the papist represented, and not misrepresented being in answer to the second sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented : and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrines and practices of the church of rome, in the point of their praying to the cross. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the papist represented, and not misrepresented being in answer to the second sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented : and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrines and practices of the church of rome, in the point of their praying to the cross. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ric. chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. nuc pre- . created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng gother, john, d. . -- papist misrepresented and represented. catholic church -- doctrines. catholic church -- liturgy. idols and images -- worship. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the papist represented , and not misrepresented ; being in answer to the second sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented . and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrines and practices of the church of rome , in the point of their praying to the cross . licensed , december . . london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard , mdclxxxvii . the papist represented , and not misrepresented , &c. when i observe the late proceedings of some of the controvertists in the church of rome , and the design they have in hand of setting forth their doctrines and practices in a way less offensive to others , and more defensible to themselves , than in former ages ; i cannot better resemble it , than to a carver , that being employed to form an image of the virgin mary or other saint , concerns not himself to make it like to the person thereby to be represented , but so as shall best serve to allure and excite the people to a devout adoration of it . if the image was strictly to be examined , and we had an original to compare it with , it 's likely there might not be one true line in the whole composure , and that it might as well suit any other person in the world , as him or her whom it pretends to resemble . and thus it will fare in many points now introduced upon the stage by veron and the bishop of meaux abroad , and a late flourishing pen and others amongst us , which carry in them so little conformity to the ancient doctrine and practice of the church of rome , that face can hardly be more unlike to face , than one would be unlike to the other , if impartially compared ; and which , if in another age they had appeared as they do in this , would have been suspected of heresy , if not condemned for it . for did they in former times formally pray to the saints , and frequently beg those things of them , which are only in the power of god to grant ? the papist after the new mode of representation , is said to believe all good , whether spiritual or temporal , comes immediately from god through the merits of christ ; and that they no otherwise desire the just in heaven to pray for them , than they do the just on earth , to be joint-petitioners with themselves to the seat of the divine majesty . did they heretofore use , without scruple , to worship and to pray to images , as if the persons thereby represented were before them ? we are now told , they give no other respect , honour and veneration to them , than we do to the bible ; and that they can as well pray to the monument , &c. as to the image of the greatest saint in heaven . did they formerly adore the cross , and direct their prayers to it in the solemn offices of the church ? it 's now only a rapture , an innocent wish , a rhetorical flight . by which palliations and glosses it may well be supposed , they are ashamed or grow weary of their religion as formely practised and defended ; and were they as sincere as liberal in their concessions , that they are hastning apace to a reformation of it . but now as we are not to judg of the virgin mary and other saints by the images and pictures of them extant in the world ( in which the carvers and painters do indulge their fancy ) for then they would be black and fair , little and great , and what not ? so we must not judg of the doctrine and practice of the church of rome , by the design of these late officious artists ; for then we should find contradictions in their infallible church , building and pulling down , saying and unsaying , age against age , principles and practices against principles and practices ; but we must have recourse to the originals , and see what their authentick authors and offices do teach , and what is yet practised in those places where their religion has no enemy near , to contend with , or to make too curious observations upon it . which course , as i have already observed in discoursing upon the worship given by them to images , so i shall proceed in this present argument of the cross ; and shew what reason there was for that charge in the catechism that they pray directly to it . but here our author takes up the point betimes , and a strain of calumny , insincerity , defamation charged upon the catechism , &c. runs through the whole chapter . and why ? is it because it has produced any false citations against them , or such as are insufficient ? no , but the catechism takes that literally which is to be understood figuratively ; and from two words in one of their hymns which literally imply a prayer to the cross , takes the occasion of charging them with directly praying to it ; whereas the papists are never any where directed to pray to the cross , and have no prayers to it . upon the reading of this , i was for the present at a stand , how a person of that communion , and that undertakes the defence of its publick offices , should be so ignorant as to profess there are but two words in one of their hymns to this purpose , and that they have no prayers to the cross , nor direction about it ; or if he did know otherwise , how he should be as confident to assert it , as if no one had ever read their offices , but themselves . but being now a little wonted to his way , i began to think there must be some reserved meaning in these positive assertions ; and by looking back a page or two , i find that he and the catechism are not agreed about the chief term in dispute , and that is the cross. for whereas the charge in the catechism is , that they pray directly to the cross , he , with much sincerity , alters the terms , and saith , that the faithful catechist produces an argument to prove the papists so stupid , as to pray directly to a piece of wood , and a mere material cross. but if that is a meer piece of wood , which in the consecration of , the bishop prays may be made the stability of faith , and increase of good works , and the redemption of souls . if that be a meer piece of wood , which they use all expressions of outward adoration to , by kissings , prostrations , &c. if that be a meer piece of wood , to which they give latria , or the sovereign worship which is peculiar to god ; then indeed they pray also directly to a meer piece of wood , to increase grace in the godly , &c. but if the cross they thus consecrate and bless , and is thus effectual after consecration ; if the cross they adore , kiss and prostrate themselves before ; if , lastly , the cross they give divine and sovereign worship to , is not a mere piece of wood , so then neither is that a mere piece of wood , they are said in the catechism to pray directly to . for it 's the same cross that the one and the other , nay that all of the things here recited of , are in the catechism applied to . but becaufe i am willing to clear the point , and as much as i can , leave it without exception , . i shall shew what they mean by a cross. . i shall prove that they do adore and worship the cross. . that they do pray directly to the cross they adore . the cross we are now concerned about , is an external representation of our saviour crucified upon it : and so is as distinct from a bare material cross , a meer cross of wood , &c. as what is an object of worship , is from that which is none . for by being thus representative , it 's no longer what it was before , a mere piece of wood ; but being in the stead of him whom it represents , and sustaining his person , it hath by that means an excellency communicated to it , and which formally alters the nature of it , as gretser the jesuit , a copious writer upon this argument , doth shew . for the further explication of which , and to add some authority to the abovesaid character of the cross , i shall transcribe the sum of what he writes of this matter . it having , it seems , been objected , that if all the crosses are to be worshipped because christ hung upon the cross ; by the same reason all thorns , reeds , nails , spears , sepulchres , &c. are to have the same respect , because christ was crown'd with thorns , nail'd to the cross , had his side pierc'd , and at last was buried in a sepulchre . to this gretser answers , that all crosses are made in imitation of the cross upon which christ suffered , and of him suffering upon it , and that they may both represent that and him. wherefore we do deservedly honour all crosses , as they are images , and an image is for representation ; but we do not thus honour all sepulchres , nails , &c. because they are not images or representations of the sepulchre of christ , nor of the nails that fastened his body to the cross. but if any one doth build a sepulchre , or erect a manger , or make nails , or choose out thorns in imitation , and for a representation of the first sepulchre , manger , nails and thorns , &c. it is no doubt but they may be worshipped . for then they are indued with , and have in them the nature of an image , which is representation . so that as there is a distinction betwixt sepulchre and sepulchre , manger and manger ; and which distinction is such , that the one is an object of worship , and another is not ; so there is betwixt cross and cross , that is , betwixt a cross , either natural , accidental , and artificial when made for other uses , and a cross that is representative ( as the same author there shews . ) so that our author might safely enough declare , that if his religion did either teach or practice such stupid idolatry , as praying to a piece of wood , he could no more be any longer of her communion than he could sacrifice to molech . for as it 's a piece of wood , it 's not the cross we are here concerned in , not the cross by representation , not the cross by consecration , which alone , and under that consideration is the object of their worship . so that tho he may continue in that communion , and make this protestation against a piece of wood ; yet he cannot be of that communion and enter the like protestation against a representing and consecrated cross , and call such application to it , idolatry . for this cross we are speaking of , is not only representative , but is also consecrated for that purpose ; and there is an office accordingly , with such prayers , rites and ceremonies as make it as well a sacred , as a representing object . as for instance , in the consecration of a new cross of wood , the bishop prays in these words ; we pray thee , o holy lord , &c. that thou wouldest vouchsase to bless this wood of thy cross , that it may be a wholsom [ saving ] remedy to mankind ; a stability of faith , an increase of good works ▪ the redemption of souls , a comfort , protection and defence against the evil darts of the enemies , through our lord , &c. and as if this were not sufficient , after the consecration of the incense , the bishop sprinkles the cross with holy-water , and incenses it ; saying , let this wood be sanctified in the name of the fa ✚ ther , and of the s ✚ on , and of the holy ✚ ghost . let the blessing of that wood upon which the holy members of our saviour hung , be in this wood ; that all that pray and bow down themselves for god , before this cross , may find health both of soul and body , through the same jesus christ. but if the cross be of metal , &c. then he is to pray to christ in these words , do thou take this cross [ now consecrated ] in those hands with which thou hast embraced that [ on which he hung ] and with the holiness of that , do thou sanctisy this : and as the world by that was cleansed from guilt , so the devout souls of thy servants who offer it , may by the merit of this cross be delivered from every sin they have committed . so that it 's very evident , that as the cross by virtue of its representation ▪ is quite another thing than a meer piece of wood ; so upon its consecration , it 's indued with another nature ; for then it has merits of its own ; it 's healthful both for soul and body , and is for the stability of faith , the increase of good works , the comfort of souls to all them that bow down before it . and here it 's sit to be remembred against we come to need it , that there can be no apostrophe , no rhetorical flight , when we not only consider it 's a prayer , and not a poetical composure ; but that also the cross here spoken of , is as much distinguished from christ , as from that cross he suffered upon . by this time , i hope , it 's sufficiently prov'd , that the cross in dispute , is another thing than a meer piece of wood . but tho the right stating of a case goes a great way toward the resolving of it , yet this is not all i intend in it : to proceed therefore , . i shall prove that they do adore and worship the cross. it has been of late pretended by some , that the cross is only a memorative sign : but this was accounted in the last age , little better than heresy : and therefore gretser saith of the lutherans , who retain'd crosses in their churches for remembrance ▪ and not for worship , that they are enemies to the cross , and not better than those that wholly reject them ▪ for indeed , this is so embodied into the offices of the church of rome , that no one can be truly of that communion ▪ but must thus conceive as they do . thus we find after the consecration of the cross , the bishop first kneels before it , and doth devoutly adore and kiss it , as do also all that are present , if they so please . but tho it be left to the pleasure of the people in that solemnity , yet it shows what the church doth intend ; and accordingly it doth call upon them in the publick office , to joyn with her in the adoration of it ; as gretser doth acknowledg . for the missal saith , at the uncovering of the cross , behold the wood of the cross , come , let us adore ; upon which all the people fall to the ground . and when the priest hath wholly uncovered the cross , and repeated , as before he places it before the altar , and first himself draws near to adore the cross ; bowing his knees thrice before he kisses it . and then the attendants at the altars , and the clergy and laity , two and two , as he did , adore the cross ; the quire in the mean while singing , we adore thy cross , o lord. this i take to be past controversy in the church of rome , where it is not disputed , whether the cross is to be worshipped , but with what worship it is to be worshipped . and which indeed is also determined to their hands by the pontificale in the place quoted in that catechism which our author wrote this chapter against . and therefore when joh. aegidius , a canon of sevil , had maintained that god was to be worshipped with latria [ soveraign worship ] and the cross with dulia [ an inferiour sort of worship ( as they call it ) which they give to the saints ] he was injoyned a publick recantation , as denying the adoration of the cross , contrary to the practice of the church , which saith , o crux ave spes union , hail , o cross , our only hope . and in another place . crucem tuam adoramus , vve do adore thy cross , as ludovicus de param● relates it . and this puts me in mind of bringing this matter to a conclusion , which i shall do , by shewing , . that they do directly pray to the cross. this was asserted in the catechism , but i must not say prov'd , till i have clear'd the point . but however if it was not prov'd , there was somewhat fairly offer'd towards it ; when it produced the express words of the breviary in justification of it ; which before i proceed i shall recite . the words are these ; hail o cross , our only hope ! do thou increase grace in the godly , and blot out the sins in the guilty . in exception to what the catechism hath produc'd this for , our author hath said as much as the cause will bear , and to give him his due , with art ▪ and smartness enough : and to give what he hath said its full sense , i shall , without taking notice of the extravagant censures , and inveterate expressions scattered through the whole , sum up what he hath said : and it comes all to this ; that this hymn is of ancient composure ; that it 's an hymn and not a prayer , and so being poetical , it 's but a rhetorical flight and apostrophe , frequent in scripture , and the fathers ; that there are but two ( that is , i suppose , a few ) words in one hymn to this purpose ; that the church hath no prayer to the cross , nor are they ever directed any where to pray to it . in fine , he saith , the meaning of their church in saying that hymn , is , hail , o christ , our only hope , &c. i am apt to think that he will grant , upon the perusal of the whole , that i have done no injury to what he hath said , by this short and close account of it . but now if i shall be able to prove that this is a prayer as well as an hymn , and that there are parts of their office to corroborate the sense i have given of it ; if i prove that their church hath prayers to the cross , and directs the people to pray to it , i think there will need little more to vindicate the catechism from all that defamation he hath so plentifully cast upon it . in the first place , he tells us that this hymn is found in st. ambrose's works . so bellarmine indeed saith it was in the paris edition , which he used ; and yet there are other editions in which it is not . so that i may as well say , it is not in st. ambrose's works , as he may say that it is , and both alike true . but is this any credit to it ? then it would be so to the hymns , optatus votis omnium , & christe , qui lux es & dies , &c. which bellarmine saith are unworthy of so great a name , and not to be attributed to him . but however if st. ambrose be not the author of it , he has found out a learned bishop to father it upon , one vincentius fortunatus , who , he saith , composed it to be sung by his church on passion sunday . but tho he hath not favoured us with the see this bishop had , yet i easily apprehend whom it is that he means , and that is venantius fortunatus , which mistake i shall be so candid as not to impute to his ignorance in these matters , but to the haste , which he that intends to write a weekly packet of controversy must be more or less liable to . but yet i am not satisfied in the point ; for tho he has the learned bellarmine before him , that seems to say , or is willing to have it believed , that this bishop was the author of this hymn ; yet i find others doubting of it ; and amongst them is gretser , who tho a diligent reader , and one as willing and ready to lay hold of what might serve for his purpose , as bellarmine , or any man whatsoever , yet speaks very doubtfully of it , and saith , some do attribute it to theodulphus [ bishop of orleance ] , others to fortunatus ; the former of which lived years after the latter , according to bellarmine . so that the truth is , there is no certainty at all in this matter , which our author hath yet so positively asserted . but be that as it will , it 's no great matter who is the author of it , nor indeed what the sense of that author was , for as long as we know what church doth constantly use it , and in what sense that church doth take it , we have enough for our purpose : and that is the thing to be now enquired into . i grant that the words here quoted , are part of an hymn , and that there are several things to be indulged to a poetical fancy , that are not otherwise to be indulged : and therefore if there was nothing in their church , to induce and oblige us to take it in a sense quite different from what he imposes on it , it would not be fair or ingenuous to force a proper sense upon it , when the nature and reason of the thing , as well as their own declaration , require it to be taken in an improper . but when we know that the cross is among them , a representation of our saviour's passion , and has for that reason a worship given and ordered to be given to it as a representing obiect . when we know that it 's also consecrated , and upon its consecration is supposed to have altered its nature , and to have divine vertues communicated to it , or to have a power of communicating such vertues to those that adore it . when , further , the passage quoted from this hymn is conformable to the other offices of the church , we have no reason in the world to take it in his sense , when we have thus the current sense of their own church against it . i think i have made it evident before , in what i have said of the consecration of the cross , that the cross is considered as a distinct thing from our saviour , because they pray to him to bless the cross , and to have such and such vertues communicated to it and by it . i think also it has been made evident , that the cross it self is to be considered and proposed as an object of adoration . and then , why is it more absurd to pray to the cross , than it is thus to adore it ? or , why is it absurd to pray to the cross for that , which they have pray'd before may be communicated to the cross ? but because this is but reasoning ( though such reasoning as is natural and plain ) therefore i shall appeal to the hymn it self , which i shall transcribe . vexilla regis prodeuut , fulget crucis mysterium , quo carne carnis conditor suspensus est patibulo . arbor decora & fulgida , ornata regis purpura , electa digno stipite tam sancta membra tangere , &c. o crux ave spes unica , paschale quae fers gaudium piis ad auge gratiam . reisque dele crimina . the banner of the king comes forth , the mystery of the cross doth shine . on which cross , the maker of flesh hath hung . a comely and bright tree , adorn'd with the purple of the king , chosen out of a stock worthy , &c. to touch so sacred members , hail , o cross , our only hope , increase grace in the godly . and blot out the sins of the guilty . then in one of the places quoted in the catechism immediately follows this sequence , the sign of the cross shall be in heaven , when the lord shall come to judgment . but this is not all ; for it follows further , o cross , brighter than all the stars , which alone hast been thought worthy to bear the weight of the world ! sweet wood , bearing the sweet nails and sweet burdens ; save the present company , gathered together this day for thy praise . from whence i observe , . that the word cross in this hymn , cannot be applied to christ , but to the cross distinct from him : for else , the cross which is the banner of the king , would be the king himself ; the cross on which the maker of flesh hung in his flesh , would be the same with the maker of flesh ; the tree which touched his sacred members , be the same with the members touched by that tree . . i observe that the cross which is saluted with hail , o cross , our daily hope , is the same with the cross upon which christ hung ; and therefore must be the cross this salutation is directed to . . that the same , or what is equivalent to it , which our author supposeth here to be said poetically , is prayed for ; sweet wood , save the present company . but because all the contradictions in the world will not open some men eyes , i shall give our author the sence of persons as considerable in his own church for learning and authority , as himself may be presumed to be . and first of all , let us hear dominicus soto , a divine ( as i remember ) in the council of trent , who , it seems had not learned our author's sence of this matter ; for he saith , we ought to worship the images themselves ; for the church doth not say , we worship thee , o christ , but thy cross , o crux ave , spes unica , &c. catharinus leads us a little further , for he saith , we direct our words and signs of adoration to the images , to which likewise we burn incense : as when we say to the cross , o crux ave spes unica , &c. and so aquinas and others tell us , that latria is to be given to images , because the church in praying to the cross , speaks to it as if it were christ himself . from which authorities , we may perceive how little heed is to be given to our author ( though he writes as if he held the sense of their whole church in the hollow of his hand ) when he affirms , that the meaning of catholicks in saying that hymn , is , hail , o christ , our only hope ! and that in the holy time of the passion , in which that hymn is sung , their whole devotion and prayers are directed to him. by which words one would at first think , our author was much of imbert's mind , a disciple ( as he himself thought ) of the bishop of meaux , who when the cross was shewn to the people on good-friday , franckly and openly declared , we adore not any thing of what we see , but jesus christ crucified ; and that he might expect the same censure for it , as that poor man met with from his diocesan . but our author has prudently provided for his own security ; for by adding a word or two , he has rendred his exposition harmless , and secured himself from the fate of imbert : for a line or two before , he saith , the catholicks do not understand the words of this hymn barely of the material cross , but of christ crucified . and indeed our author is not alone , nor the first in this exposition , for thus it 's also expounded in a french office , viz. this adoration is not terminated only on the wood , but on jesus christ who was nailed thereon : [ cette adoration ne se termine pas au seul bois , mais à j. c. qui y a esté attaché ] . so that for the future , when we meet with such expositions , that do seemingly translate the worship from the cross wholly to our saviour , we are to understand that there is some reserved qualification , to moderate it , such as merely , barely , only , that is implied , or express'd perhaps a line or two before or afterwards . and having now this key , we may pretend to understand the meaning of our author's exposition , and , if you will take his word , the meaning of all catholicks , which is this , hail , o cross , our only hope , and , hail , o christ , our only hope ; that is , christ is their only hope , but so as the cross is their hope too ; and the cross is their only hope , but so as christ is their hope also . so that whilst our author charges the catechism with pointing to a false and mistaken sense , he himself has , much to the advantage of the hymn , expounded it into non-sense . a word , i must confess , i borrow from him , and which puts me in mind of the last tire , that he discharges upon the catechism ; but though in managing of this he hath spent the greatest part of his sheet , i shall dispatch it in few words . if , saith he , for these words in this anthem , their church must be blackned with the infamy of idolatry , and praying directly to the cross ; then stand clear paul , have a care chrysostom , beware o creed , and you common-prayer book , look to your self . for if you have but a grave catechist that will faithfully represent you ; you 'l be infallibly set out for nothing better than professors of folly and non-sence , bundles of absurdities and prophaneness , &c. one would think that this author , from a certain pique he has taken against what he so often calls a grave catechism , had forgotten all gravity , and respect to the most serious matters . stand clear , have a care , beware . who and what are these addressed to ? no other than a holy st. paul , an excellent st. chrysostom , and the chief sum of the articles of our faith. for god's sake are there no more decent forms of speech to describe these things by ? and are we to discourse of them as if we were at some light and rustical pastimes ? but what can be strange in this kind , when it shall be suggested that there is as much reason to say st. paul reverenced the material cross above all things in heaven and earth , because he saith , god forbid that i should glory save in the cross of our lord jesus christ : as much reason to say , he looked upon the wood of the cross , as that which had purchased man's reconciliation to god , because he saith , man was reconciled to god in one body , by the cross ; as there is for saying the church of rome prays directly to the cross , because she salutes it with hail , o cross , our only hope : and as if there was no more reason to apply this to a material cross , than there is these and the like texts of st. paul. he doth indeed intimate , and would have it understood , that the material cross is herein concerned . for thus he saith , to do right to st. paul , st. chrysostom , &c. besides giving a bare narrative of their expressions , it ought to be explicated to the people that in these high encomiums they do not understand the meer material cross. but when he can prove there was any material cross then used , and that those encomiums do in any sense belong to it , then it will be time enough to answer further to his exceptions ; but till that time , what i have already said about the notion of a cross , the consecration , the adoration of it , and i will venture to say their prayer to it , is sufficient to shew , that though there be good reason to understand st. paul in a figurative sense , there is none to understand the phrase , before recited and used in the romish church in that sense . if our author expects an answer to his heathenish catechism , ( as he calls it ) which is a name very proper for it ; i shall , instead of that , only put a few questions , and conclude . q. whether the crosses used in the religious service of the church of rome be mere pieces of wood , & c ? q. whether they may not , and are not to adore the cross , tho they may not adore a meer piece of wood ? q. how the cross which they pray to christ to bless , is made the stability of faith , and increase of good works ? q. how the cross upon which christ hung , may be christ who hung upon the cross ? finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e pap. misr . par . . c ▪ . ibid c. . ibid. de cruce . l. . c. . chap. . misrepr . p. . c. . c ▪ p. . pontificale in benedic . nov. crucis . salutare . de cruce l. . c. . pontific . ibid. ibid. c. . missal . rom. in para●●ev . fer. . lud. de paramo de orig. s. inquis . l. . tit . . c. . n. . bellarm. de scriptor . eccles . an. . ibid. de venant . fortun. lib. . de cruce , c. . fest. invent. crucis ad vesper . dom. soto de instit. & jure . l. . q. . art . . in fin . cathar . de cultu & ador . imag. p. , & . v. simon . majolus pro desens . sacr . imag. centur . . c. . page . see the defence of the exposition of the doctrine of the church of england . append . p. . l'office de la semaine sancte , francois & latin. o à lyon , p. . remarques , p. . page . page . page . the papist represented, and not misrepresented being in answer to the first sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented : and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrine and practices of the church of rome. williams, john, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the papist represented, and not misrepresented being in answer to the first sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented : and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrine and practices of the church of rome. williams, john, ?- . [ ], p. printed for ric. chiswell ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. attributed to john williams. cf. bm. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng gother, john, d. . -- papist misrepresented and represented. catholic church -- doctrines. catholic church -- liturgy. idols and images -- worship. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the papist represented , and not misrepresented ; being in answer to the first sheet of the second part of the papist misrepresented and represented . and for a further vindication of the catechism truly representing the doctrine and practices of the church of rome . licensed , december . . london : printed for ric. chiswell , at the rose and crown in st. paul's church-yard , mdclxxxvii . the papist represented , and not misrepresented , &c. after a cause hath been managed to so plain a disadvantage , that there hath been no place left , and no reasonable care taken for its defence , he must have a good measure of assurance in himself , and presume too much upon the weakness or good nature , the ignorance or drowsiness of the age he lives in , that before the controversie is cold , shall venture the same again into the world , without offering at any shew of a new argument , to support and vindicate the old. and yet this is the case of the author of the second part of the papist misreprented and represented ; who in the single chapter newly published , of the veneration shown to images , hath in substance and contrivance transcribed what was wrote upon the same subject in the first part , and that with as much liberty and confidence , as if there had never been such books in the world , as the doctrines and practices of the church of rome , &c. and an answer to papists protesting against protestant popery ; that had taken this argument to task , and shew'd the weakness and the falshood of it . when i first cast my eye upon this sheet , and observed how formally he had drawn up the argument in the beginning , i thought now , if ever , he would state the case , and argue closely upon it ; and that he that complains so much of the mists and confusion raised from the disagreeing opinions of divines amongst themselves , and the infamy cast upon the doctrine and practice about images in their church , by letting loose the school-debates amongst the multitude ; would have been so kind to the world , as to shew us what we are to trust to , and what those once famous directors of controversie and conscience ( the school-men ) but now it seems dangerous enemies to the peace and propagation of their religion , do hold to the detriment and disadvantage of it . but instead of that , we have a character of an image-worshipper of his own making , setforth with a various mixture of similitudes and resemblances , which after he hath trimm'd up in somewhat a new fashion , he hopes may pass with better authority , and be received with greater respect than whatsoever these abovesaid wrangling disputants , attended with all their speculative scruples ( to use his words ) can propose . but tho' he thinks fit thus to desert the schools ; yet having some reverence for them , and more for truth , i shall gently take him by the hand , and from the mists and confusion of a declamatory discourse , turn him back to the old way of argument , and see if we can better understand one another , and the cause we are at present concern'd in . in order to which , i shall shew , . what is meant by an image . . what worship is given , and to be given to an image in the church of rome . . that the catechism he opposeth , hath given no other account of their doctrine and practice in this matter , than is conformable to it . an image ( in the ecclesiastical sense ) is an external and visible representation of some divine or glorified being and object , ( such as god , the blessed trinity , christ , angels and saints ) set up for the receiving religious honour and worship . so that whatever things do not represent , or are not intended to represent a divine or glorified object ; or that are not set up to receive religious worship , or have not religious worship given to them , are not concerned in the dispute . and of this kind thus excluded , are , . all visible signs and marks of distinction ; such ( to use his instances ) are a lion and vnicorn when set up in a place to intimate that there the king is owned as supreme . and such may a cross be ( where there is occasion ) when set up , suppose in or upon a christian church , to distinguish it from a turkish mosque . but why crosses or the like should therefore be so necessary , that those that allow them not ( as well where this reason is not , as where it is ) should be deemed to allow of nothing to shew they are christians , is an inference of our authors , but what i confess is past my understanding . . hereby are excluded all those effigies and pictures that are for ornament , or that serve to testify the honour and respect we bear to the persons to whom they have a resemblance . and of this kind are the pictures of moses and aaron , queen elizabeth , and king charles the first of blessed memory , which are in some of our churches ; and those of christ and the apostles , which are retained in others . . hereby are also excluded all historical signs , that are intended for the preservation of the memory of good and holy persons ; or that occasionally may either excite in us devout thoughts and affections , or that may serve for instruction ( if that can be ) : for how such do instruct like the bible , when the bible can instruct those that are before ignorant of the mysteries of our religion ; but a picture or image cannot instruct without somewhat else to instruct before or with it ; or how an image or cross is upon this consideration a part of gods holy word , without any difference from that chapter of the bible which treats of the same , except the different fashion of the strokes , and manner of laying on the ink ; are doctrines that become a member of that church , which for the better edification of the people , whilst it exposes images to them , keeps the bible from them . . of this sort are those things which have an eminent relation to god and his service , to which for that reason a certain reverence and suitable respect is more or less due . and so its lawful and decent to be uncovered at reading the bible , and the hearing it expounded ; and to kiss it in taking an oath , as a token of the reverence and the regard we have for it . and this we do , not because in the bible the strokes of the ink are so ordered and joyn'd in the paper , that they signifie and represent the doctrine and passion of christ , ( a description that rather becomes a book of emblems and hieroglyphicks , than of divine doctrine ) not because i say it represents ( as he mistakes ) but as it contains the great articles of our faith , &c. these are things which the controversie is not at all concerned in ( being either no visible representations of divine or glorified beings , or not set up for receiving religious honour and worship ) . and yet to these are all the resemblances used by our author , to be refer'd ; and who with these , shuts up the whole controversie , as if there was no other use of images in the church of rome , than what the pictures of queen elizabeth , or moses and aaron serve for in ours ; and that the honour and reverence they give to them , is no more than the reverence we give to the bible : for thus he concludes , let divines wrangle [ meaning their own ] to the worlds end , and dispute whether this honour , this reverence and respect shewn to the bible , to a preachers sermon , to pictures or images , be the same , or distinct from what is given to the things represented ; whether it terminates on them absolutely after an inferior manner , or only relatively , and so forth . this they may go on with , &c. but for his part , he is little concerned . where he supposeth two things , ( ) that it 's a controversie amongst them , whether the honour and reverence they give to consecrated images and pictures , be other than what is shewn to the bible , or a preachers sermon : and ( ) that the controversie among their divines about the worship given to them , whether absolute or negative , is of little concernment ; whereas the former ( as shall presently be shew'd ) neither is nor can be a controversie among them upon their principles . and the latter is a controversie of that importance , that each side charges the other with no worse a consequence of their principle , than idolatry . as to the former part of the description i have given of an image ( viz. that it 's a visible representation of a divine or glorified being ) there is no dispute ; but the dispute will be , about the latter part [ viz. that it 's set up for the receiving of religious honour and worship . ] for as our author has avoided the word worship all along , even to the omission of a clause in what he quotes from the council of trent [ propter quam sint colendoe ] so he seems resolved not to admit of it , or even so much as the external actions belonging to it . for so he goes on . this then is what he [ the papist represented ] do's as to sacred images ; and though his adversaries , by calling this worshipping , adoring , and falling down to images , raise a notion of idolatry , &c. so that it seems it is only a fiction of their adversaries , what they call so , but which they neither do in fact , nor so much as in word , call by those names of worshipping , adoring , and falling down to images . but if i prove that they use the words by which those things are understood , that they use such actions and postures as are conformable to those words , and that they apply those actions and postures to the images , and that the images are to be had and retained in churches for that end ; i think i shall have by that time done whatever is necessary to make good the abovesaid description of an image , and of what is infer'd from it . as to the words , there are three used by themselves in this matter , viz. honor , veneratio , cultus . which last i know not how otherwise to render , as distinct from the two former , than by worship ; and so i find it rendred by one of themselves . and that it 's so to be understood , is evident from the d council of nice , ( which that of trent in the same place appeals and approves to ) where we find an anathema against those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that do not worship the holy and venerable images : and so pope adrian , in his epistle to that synod , saith of his own practice , i adore the images , &c. and that this is the doctrine of both the one and the other council , i appeal to many of their own authors , ( which i shall produce if there be occasion ) who say , that images are to be adored : and suarez for all saith , that it's de fide imagines esse adorandas , that it 's a matter of faith that images are to be adored . but as the words , so the postures shew it , it being an unhappy oversight of our author's , who saith , that falling down to images , is a fiction of their adversaries ; when the council of trent is so express in it , that by the images which we kiss , and before which we uncover our heads , and fall down , we do adore christ , &c. but here our author it 's like hath a reserve : for will he say , the thing that our adversaries charge us with , is falling down to images ? but that i deny , for we only fall down before the images , as the council saith , but do not fall down to them . indeed if this be his refuge , it 's fairly argued : but if this be his sense , then what becomes of that other part of the decree of the same council , which requires , that due honour and veneration be given to them , [ eis impertiendam ] ? and which ought to be kept in churches , and are there set up that they may be worshipped , as saith their catechism . ad paroc . but this will be further confirm'd , when , . i have shewed , that the catechism he now opposeth , hath given no other account of the doctrine and practice of the church of rome about images , than is conformable to it . against this , for the present , our author objects nothing but the phrase therein used of praying to images . and here he runs again to his resemblances , to the monument , the statues upon the exchange , and the giants at guild-hall ; to rhetorical exclamations , and expostulations , with much piquantry against the poor six-peny catechism : but what is the haste to coast thus up and down the town , to westminster , to the exchange , to wapping and spittle-fields , and where not ? i perceive it will be too great a task to follow him who sets no bounds to himself ; and therefore to shorten the way , i shall ' ene lay my self open to him , and confess the charge i exhibited against them of praying to images . to prove which before , our author saith i made use of this argument , viz. prayer is to the object to which the veneration is to be given ; but the veneration is to be given to the image , as representing , and so is the prayer . and here he crys out sophistry , and triumphs over it for near half a page together . but is this argument mine , or was it produced to prove the papists pray to images ? indeed i had argued that if they do not pray to images , why are the prayers used at the consecration of them ? to what end are the pilgrimages to them ? why do they direct their prayers to them ? but to this there is not a word of answer , when in reason it ought to be expected , whereas he takes much pains to confute that which never was asserted . had the argument been ( as he supposeth ) to prove , that if they give veneration to images , they therefore pray to them ; he ought to have been so ingenuous , as to remember , that the catechism supposeth that the terms veneration and worship , are in this case much one and the same ; and that the church of rome doth worship as well as venerate images ( which now i have shewed my reasons for ) : and this the line immediately before would have instructed him in . and if so , the argument has so much truth in it , that it will cost him some more time and thoughts to disprove . but to what shall i impute it , whether to oversight , or sophistry , when he places the argument upon a wrong foot , and from a proof , that praying to images in the catechism , was to images as representing , doth translate it to a proof of praying to images because they venerate them . i am confident the controvertists of spittle-fields and wapping , as little as i know them ( the reader will pardon the phrase for it 's his own ) would not have argued more inconsequently , and those that have but stepp'd over the vniversity-threshold , ( to use his words ) would have call'd it an arguing à baculo ad angulum : when what i say respects the object , and he transfers it to the act. but this it is to run impetuously , with much fancy , and little consideration , into the field of disputation . for take the argument as it lies , and i think it 's fair and plain . for , if the proposition is true , that the worship ( not honour alone , that 's his insertion ) given to images , is to the persons represented ; then so is all depending upon it . for what is the image , but the image of the person represented ? what do they honour , venerate , and kiss ? before what do they fall down ? to what do they offer incense , but the image of the person represented ? and then , to what do they pray , but to the image of the person represented ? for where the veneration , the salutation , the prostration , and the oblation are , there is also the prayer . i must confess this way of arguing may prove too much for him ; but that i cannot help , be it to them that lay down the premises from whence the conclusion is inferr'd . but because he doth not like consequences and inferences ( unless they are of his own making ) i shall first of all put him in mind , that it has been proved by one , whom he should in reason be acquainted with , that to , before , and in presence of a representative object , as representing , are the very same . and to the solid proof which that learned author has given of it , i shall add , that not only do the latins use those phrases alike in that case , and so what in pliny is , imagini supplicare , is in arnobius , ad imaginem ; but that these words are thus promiscuously used also in the church of rome it self : so in the decree of the council of trent , before cited , what in one line is , iis impertiendam , to the images , is in another , coram iis , before them . and that i may not be without some sufficient proof , we have our author himself thus speaking to and fro ; for sometimes it 's a veneration before images , page . sometimes a veneration to them , pag. , & . and why i may not be allowed to use these words indifferently , that are indifferently used by them : or , why to in praying to images , should be worse than to in a veneration given to them , i know not ; unless what 's right in them is wrong in me ? but this praying to images is a thing not to be born , it 's to leave the papists , their credit , and their doctrine to the favour and mercy of — but who is to be blamed for this ? why do they then in terms pray to the cross and the veronica , & c ? why do they tell us of a divine presence , that is , if not in them , yet with them , as tursellinus affirms of that at lorreto ? why do they write whole books of the miracles wrought by the virgin mary , and others saints by their images ? why do they suffer persons to go long and tedious pilgrimages to them ? &c. certainly it is as innocent for us to say , they give worship and pray to images , as for them to say , and to do it . but because i am willing to conclude , i shall , in confirmation of what i have said , transcribe an old form of abjuration impos'd upon the lollards , which is this ; i do swear to god , and to all his seynts , upon this holy gospel ; and fro this day forward i shall worship images with praying and offering to them , in the worschop of the seynts that they be made after . so that if i have erred , i have err'd with a council , with their breviaries , with the decrees and practice of their church , and with approved authors of their own . and if they stand right and justified in it , i hope i may be acquitted . considering especially that after all that this gentleman , ( who has bore thus hard upon me , and used such a sort of wit , and such phrases and modes of speech , as are more fit for a stage , than a scholar and divine ) has transgress'd in the same way , and call'd our kneeling at the lord's supper , a kneeling to the elements , or ( as he calls it ) to the sacramental figure , pag. . whereas he very well knows , or ought to have known , for the sake of a passage , in the preface to the first part of the papist represented and misrepresented , ( if the author be the same ) that the same church which hath required we should receive the sacrament kneeling , hath also declared , that no adoration is intended , or ought to be done , to the sacramental bread and wine there bodily received . the kneeling to , supposeth an object of adoration before us , and is an act of worship ; but the kneeling when , is no more than a devout posture of receiving it ; and which our church saith , is a signification of an humble and grateful acknowledgment of the benefits of christ therein given to all worthy receivers . so that with as much truth and reason might he have affirmed , we kneel to the minister from whose hands we receive the elements , as to the elements we receive from him . now if in conclusion i should return upon him the same lavish rhetorick ( not to call it worse ) for his misrepresentation of our church , which he has treated me with , for what he can never be able to prove , is a misrepresentation of theirs , i am sensible i should offend against the laws of good manners , and of the best religion in the world. and here i should take my leave of him , but that this day he sends me a second challenge , which as little as i love disputes , i shall yet accept of ; and do not question ( but through god's assistance ) i shall give him such satisfaction as becomes a christian , a lover of truth , peace , and charity . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e concil . trid. sess. . & catechis . ad paroc . s.c. answ. to dr. pierce , c. . actio . . suar. in . p. q. . disp. . §. . an answer to the papists protesting , &c. pag. , &c. lauret . hist. praef. mirac . . consrat . . dolor . duad . spelman concil . to. . p. . toward the vindication of the second commandment by edm. gurnay ... gurnay, edmund, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing g b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : or : c) toward the vindication of the second commandment by edm. gurnay ... gurnay, edmund, d. . [ ], p. printed by e.m. for j. rothwell ..., london : . "june , . imprimatur cantabrigiæ per ra. brownrigg ..." item at reel : c bound and filmed following wing c a and g a. reproductions of originals in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library and folger shakespeare library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng ten commandments -- criticism, interpretation, etc. idols and images -- worship -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion toward the vindication of the second commandment : by edm. gurnay , batchelour in divinity , and minister of gods word at harpley in norfolk . exod. . . for the lord whose name is jealous , is a jealous god. june . . imprimatur cantabrigiae per ra. brownrigg , procan . samuel ward , thomas bainbrigg , thomas bacheroft . london , printed by e. m. for j rothwell at the bear and fountain in cheap-side . toward the vindication of the second commandment . the man that esteemed the commandments of god above thousands of gold and silver , is called in scripture , the man after gods own hearts ; and our saviour telleth us , that whosoever observeth his commandments , and teacheth men so , the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven : great cause therefore is there for the sons of men to be infinitely in love with the commandments of god ; and to think no time so well spent as that which is bestowed about doing some service or other about those commandments : sometime in opening and clearing their passages ; sometime in filling up their pits and valleys ; sometime in making plain their roughness and stumbling-plots ; sometime in delving through their cliffs and altitudes ; sometime in making bridges and passe-overs upon their bottomlesse gulfs ; sometime by one means and sometime another , preparing the wayes of the lord , and making his paths straight : that so their prospect becoming clear and thorough , and their grounds made firm and direct , the children of men may from all quarters be allured unto them ; and leaving their own by-wayes , walk together in them , to the glory and praise of god , through jesus christ our lord. the commandment which i for my part have especially observed , and done my diligence to see what comers and goers are likely to do any violence unto , is that which is accounted the second . and because none are more likely to make bold with that commandment , then they that are addicted unto images , i thought it a good course for me toward my doing the better service in the businesse , to examine all kind of arguments which may any way be made in favour of images ; and such of them as i should find not sufficiently to conclude ( though they concluded never so little ) to give notice of them unto the world. those of them which in these my ensuing pains i purpose ( more or lesse ) to except against , shall be these : arguments in favour of images . . that there is little hope for us in these times to prevail against images , when as the learned writers in former times have so little prevailed against them . . that every child being able to perceive by them , that they have mouthes and speak not , eyes and see not , &c. it can be but a frivolous ( fantastical , iconoclastical , &c. ) piece of work to make any businesse about such poor things . . that now in the time of the gospel , the church of god is at more liberty for the use of images than it was in the time of the law. . that the present people of england , are of better strength and judgement than to worship images , or to take any harm by them . . that if any amongst us do sometime a glance of honour unto images , so it be but a civil honour and not the divine , ( dulia and not latria ) no just exception can be taken thereat . . that images are profitable for many good and holy uses . . that they be special good to give instruction . . that they be no lesse effectual toward the quickning of devotion . where unto we answer in order . the . argument answered . to the first , which pleadeth how little hope there is for us in these times to prevail against the strong holds of images ; we answer , first , that not onely a hope to prevail , but also an apprehension of duty is a fair ( if not the better ) motive unto the attempting of businesse : it being no dispensation unto the dog to give over his barking because the thief will not be gone , but rather it lying upon him to double his barking , so much the more ; and the lord appointing his prophets to speak his words unto the people , whether they will hear them or not . secondly , considering how the light fallings of weak water ( gutta cavat lapidem , &c. ) do in time make hollow the hardest flint ; it is not a thing to be despaired of , but that our weak distillations , if we can rightly level them upon the faces of these images , which the over-flowings of others have already so well washed upon , may pit and fret into them a greater defacement than hitherto hath befallen them ; the latter droppings alwaies making the first dint in the flint , though never a whit more piercing than those that fell before . thirdly , one good effect we are sure shall follow upon our pains , whether it be by writing or speaking ( yea , though it be but babling or scribling ) and that is this ; that in the mean time falshood shall not be able to prescribe any peaceable possession against the truth , as long as any amongst us shall , though with never so stammering a tongue but babble , or never so ragged a quill but scribble against the same . yea , the perverse world it self shall reap some benefit by our such babbling and scribbling ; there being good hope for them , that the lord will not come himself in person to vindicate the truth ( which when he doth , fire and brimstone must follow ) as long as he shall observe any of the sons of men fighting for it , and that we have not utterly forsaken the field . and as for us the pusillus grex , and sorry company of these babblers and scribblers ( for so the industrious contenders for the truth use to be termed ; ) beside the reward which the god of truth hath laid up for those that sell all they have toward the purchasing of this pearl , we shall also in this vale of misery reap many a sweet contentment ; and while we are muddling in the mines of this hidden truth , and working for it through the hardest rocks , we shall meet with many a living spring wherewith to refresh our thirsty souls , and many a clear fountain wherein we may bath and revive our tired spirits ; and all the way along as we go by the silver streamings , pleasant passages , delicate windings , turnings and returnings of this crystal and celestial truth , we shall every foot be entertained with most admirable varieties of sparkling & spangling and most unsatiating contemplations . the . argument answered . the second allegation toward the favouring and bearing with images , is this , that every child being able to discern how such kind of things have mouthes and speak not , eyes and see not , &c. it can be but a frivolous piece of work to make any businesse about such poor things . whereunto we answer : if the lord our god be a jealous god , and withall especially jealous against images ; what mortal man shall once dare to term it a frivolous piece of work to be never so cautelous against images ? for can we be too cautelous or too timerous , how we provoke the jealousie of the most terrible god ? now , that the lord so is , namely , both a jealous god , and also especially jealous against images ; many considerations have offered themselves to make it good : and we fear we shall offend the lord , unlesse we admonish the sonnes of men thereof . touching therefore the first of them , namely , that the lord is a jealous god ; it is no more than the scripture every where supposeth : and the prophet esay , when he saith that he putteth on jealousie like a cloak , giveth us fairly to think , not only that the lord is a jealous god , but also that he will be known and plainly professe himself to be : the cloak of a man being his most outward garment , and which doth , livery-wife , best make a man known from other men . yea , moses goeth further , and maketh it no lesse than one of the names of god , to be a jealous god : for thus he saith , the lord whose name is jealous , is a jealous god. whereof also , finally , good reason may be given : for what more fit to make the name of a thing than that which is sufficient to distinguish the thing from all other things of the same kind ? and doth not the name of the jeal●●s god , sufficiently distinguish the true god from all other gods whatsoever ? for as for other gods , so far were they alwayes from being jealous gods , as that though their lovers went to never so many beside themselves , yet to them it was all one ; whensoever they returned unto them , and brought their gifts with them , like common whores they received them without more ado : whereas the true god was alwayes so far frō admitting any partners with him in his love , as that when at any time his people went unto any other god beside himself , he did most severely punish them ; and ( as joshua at first gave them warning ) after he had done them never so much good , he would do them as much harm . true indeed , strange it may seem , that he in whose eyes all the nations of the earth are as nothing , should once vouchsafe to look upon the sonnes of men ; much more , that he should love them , and that with the highest degree of love , the love of jealousie : notwithstanding , whatsoever the cause be ; whether it be because he would amaze the sonnes of men with the immensitie of his love , or whether it be to make them the more watchfull over every thing that offereth to get into their love ; whatsoever the cause be , so it is his pleasure , and so he hath determined , even with no lesse love than the love of jealousie to embrace the sonnes of men . but now concerning our second suppose , namely , that the lord is so especially jealous against images : that we grant may well seem somthing strange , especially considering what a world of creatures there are which both have images as well as these ( whatsoever the eye seeth being an image ) and all such kind of images as may far better ravish the beholders than these counterfeits possibly can . notwithstanding , first , thus much we are sure of , that none of the commandments are grounded upon his jealousie but onely that which is against images ; thou shalt not make any kind of images , &c. — for i the lord thy god am a jealous god. secondly , all the false gods that ever were , what were they else ( ordinarily ) but images ? thirdly , not onely the images of honourable creatures ( as of saints , princes , parents , &c. ) and of profitable creatures ( as kine , oxen , sheep , horses , fowles , &c. ) but also of terrible and hatefull creatures ( as lions , dragons , serpents , &c. ) and even of noysome , common , and vile creatures ( as mice , rats , cats , dogges , worms , &c. ) have been made gods of : which may the more plainly convince , that not onely the thing signified by the image , but also the image it self was the thing so deified and regarded . for though it be never so manifest that such kinde of things have mouths and speak not , eyes and see not , &c. yet such ( who knoweth not ? ) is the perverseness of man , as that if he once setteth on it , he will maintain , that not onely the thing that hath eyes and seeth not , &c. but also the thing which neither seeth , nor hath eyes , nor any similitude of eyes , is notwithstanding a god : witness not only those old heathens , which made a plain stone their god , and which also they called matrem deûm , the mother-god ; but also the disciples of trent at this very day , which maintain that to be the very true god , which hath the perfect similitude ( at least the similitude ) of a cake of bread. for though all their wits and senses do never so strongly reclaim against such monstrous positions ; yet if they once set on it , they will be so far from relenting thereupon , as that they will rather double their resistance so much the more , and make that a principal argument that it must be so , because their common sense saith it cannot be so : even just as they which austine speaketh of , qui in illo figmento numen in esse credebant , quia vitalem in eo motum non videbant ; which kind of argument none but such as had resolved to be wilfully mad would ever make . fourthly , we find , the scripture farre more frequent in forbidding the making gods of images and worshipping them , than in making gods of any other kind of things and worshipping them : and yet the making gods of other things is as much forbidden as the making gods of images ; even in the first commandment , thou shalt have none other gods but me . a fifth reason why the jealousie of god may so especially set it self against images , may be this , because no kind of false gods be so fit for the purposes of false-priesthoods as image-gods be ; namely , because such kind of gods may both be most easily contained in their temples , under their locks and keye , and shall put them to little or no charge , either to guard them ( for they are not worth the stealing away ) or to find them daily meat & drink ( for there is no life in them ; ) they having also many concavities & cells fit for wire-drawings , jugglings , and such miraculous feats ; and finally , being apt to be continued in their full glitterings and beauties , and to make as fair a shew when they are rotten as when they were first made . sixthly , there is no kind of false god which doth beget the mind of man with a more grosse opinion of god and religion than an image-god : and that may be a special cause why the true god doth take such indignation against images . for when such kind of things are esteemed for gods as have eyes and see not , mouths & speak not , &c. the beholders are given to think , that either there is not any true god at all ; or if there be any , that he is some poor , brute , senselesse thing , and such as can do little good or harm : and thus much also a mere natural man , varro , could observe , when he said , that the first setters forth of gods by images , did not onely increase errour , but also take away all fear of religion : whereof austine giveth this fair reason , quia facilè dii possunt in stoliditate similacrorum contemni , i.e. because the stolidity of images made men think accordingly of their gods. moreover , there is no kind of false god so hard to be dispossessed and cast out of the heart of man as these image-gods . for whereas all men are at the first in the state of childhood and ignorance , and children and ignorant persons are most easily taken up with these image-gods : it so commeth to passe , that they take up the first and deepest rooms in the hearts of men ; and so must needs be most hard to remove and cast up again . again , there is no kind of false god that doth more strongly resist the entertainment of the true god than these image-gods : which may well be another special cause of the true gods indignation against them . for the true god being altogether invisible , and taking up his mansion onely in the heart ; and these image-gods being nothing but visible , and having no abidance but in the outward eye ; it must needs be , that such as have once been taken up with them , will very hardly be brought to brook and put confidence in the invisible god. and though at length they be brought to acknowledge , that the true god is altogether invisible ; yet will it be a hard matter for them to put up a prayer to that invisible god , but these old wonted images will obstruct and infect the same : it being a good reason which austine giveth , why the heathens did rather direct their prayers unto the images of the sunne or sea , than unto the real sunne or sea it self ; because ( saith he ) they might think it more likely that the things which carry the similitudes of men ( as those images of the sun and sea , called phoebus and neptunus , did ) should hear their prayers , than such kind of things as had no similitude , but either of an orb , as the sun hath ; or of a wavie and undeterminate nature , as the sea hath . finally , when men will not stick to give incredible summes of mony for images , as sometime twenty talents of gold , sometime thirtie , fortie , fiftie , sixty , eightie , and an hundred for an image ; hath not the lord great reason to be jealous of images ? for what more likely to become an idol , than that which men esteem at an unreasonable rate ; and that also notwithstanding the lord hath pronounced of it , that it is profitable for nothing ? but to conclude , ( for it would be an endlesse piece of work to heap up all the probabilities that offer themselves for this purpose : ) that which one of the fathers affirmed of his times , when he saith , tanta homines imaginum cupiditas tenet , ut jam viliora ducantur illa quae vera sunt , i. e. so greatly are men enamoured upon images , as that now-a-dayes the more true and real things are , the more vile and base they are esteemed : what age hath not found it true in their particular times ? as if the sonnes of men had a desire to compare with their maker , and to finde more excellencie in their own works than in his . surely ( may we not say ? ) the true and real servants and saints of god were not more esteemed and respected when they lived , than their images have been : and no doubt it will easily be granted , that when poor lazarus himself would not be suffered to peep in at the doors , the picture of lazarus shall be advanced in the parlour . last of all , not only the heathens in their times , but also the very people of god in their times , have they not continually doted upon , and run a whoring after images ? yea , and that also as well in the time of the gospel as in the time of the law ? for what else meant those tumults , wars , and bloodsheds in the time of the eastern empire , about the setting up and pulling down of images ? as our homily at large declareth . and even in these last times ( at least as far as the bounds of rome extend ) hath extremity of zeal been wanting unto the cause of images ? for , we must adore , saith one of their doctours , not onely before an image , but also the image it self . and another of them thus , * the same honour which is due to the trinity , do i attribute unto an image , and who so doth not likewise , him i accurse . and their most classical doctour thus , ‖ the images of christ and the saints are to be reverenced , not onely as they are samples , but also per se propriè , properly and by themselves ; even so far as that the veneration may settle and determine it self upon the image , & non solum ut vicem gerat exemplaris . and whoever among the heathen did more thoroughly rivet and imp the soul of man into an image , toward the making it most perfect in idolatry ? but enough no doubt hath been said to make it probable ( and more than probable we are loath to make it ) that the jealousie of god is more strongly set against images than against any inveiglement which the soul of man is apt to be beguiled withall whatsoever . and therefore to judge us frivolous ( idle , precise , fantastical , iconoclastical , &c. ) for being cautelous against images , or for our resolving to admit of no reasons in their behalf but such only as shall be substantial and demonstrative , is a judgement ( we are perswaded ) that pleaseth not god : and therefore we wi●● proceed and persist in our intentions , and not give over till we have acquainted the world with our exceptions against the rest of the allegations . the . argument answered . the next whereof is this ; that now in the time of the gospel the church of god is at more liberty for the use of images than it was in the time of the law. whereunto we answer , first , that the time of the law being the special time for types , shadowes , figures , and similitudes , which all were a kind of images ; the argument should rather follow on the contrary , and conclude , that images do rather lose than gain any liberty by vertue of that laws exspiration . for it being the determination of god to divide his church into a state of minority , and a state of maturity , and the state of minority being that which was under the discipline of moses law ; the lord di● think it good to set forth that state of minority in such kind of attires and liabiliments as might best agree and suit with the fansie of minority ; which when the time of gravity and maturity should come , should thereupon be put off and laid aside ; even no otherwise than as the blooms of our trees fall away upon the putting forth of the fruit . secondly , when the time of the old law began first to exspire , we do not find that the primitive church did take any more liberty for the use of images than it did before ; or that idolatry was esteemed a lesse sin than it was before , but rather a greater ; s. john pronouncing a more terrible punishment against it ( even the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone ) than the old law in so expresse terms ever did ; and calling even upon babes to beware of idols ; and terming it a doctrine of balaam , to teach liberty of eating meat that was ( though but ) sacrificed unto idols : which also the apostle charged the gentiles ( for their first lesson ) to abstain from . thirdly for many generations together immediately following the apostles times , the church of god ( as our homilie at large declareth ) would not endure so much as the sight of images in places where gods name used to be called upon . fourthly , the founder part of the catholick church have alwayes esteemed the decalogue to be of eternal force , and to be rooted in the law of creation , before any positive or mosaical legislation was : as also gods punishing idolatry in the old canaanites which lived before the time of moses law , and his promise to a thousand generations ( the tenth part of which time the law of moses was not in force ) may import . finally , the church of england at this day continually publisheth a law against the worshipping of images ; and in her commination pronounceth the first and last curse against them that so do . we will therefore without more ado esteem them at too weak a pass , and not worthy any further to be contested against , which for the succouring of images find themselves driven to plead the abrogation of moses law. the . argument answered . the fourth allegation is this , that the present people of england are of better strength and judgement than to worship images , or to take any harm from such kind of things . whereunto we answer , first , that so also ignorance and dulness of conceit are far enough off from worshipping images , or taking any harm by them ; witnesse the brute beasts : it requiring oftentimes a good degree of understanding , to be so much as capable of some kind of deceit . yea , profaneness and irreligion will also neglect , deride , and spoyle images as much as this strength and judgement ; witness dionysius , rabshakeh , nero , and those like atheists . for as when profane persons hear one another swear by the blood and wounds of god , and are not moved thereat ; the cause why they are not moved , is not any strength of religion , but only their sympathizing with one another in profanenesse and irreligion . so likewise if any proceed not so far as to do reverence unto such kind of images as represent the wounds and passions of god , there is no necessity to think them so specially strong in religion ; it being no more than incredulity also and irreligion may withhold them from . secondly , as ignorance , profanenesse and irreligion , so also carnal policy and affectation will make a shew of this kind of strength ; witnesse those manichees in the time of augustine , which out of this carnal policy , to win the pagans unto their side against the sound christians , simulabant se favere simulacris , and made a shew as if they could well enough endure images . as also witness those corinthians in the time of paul , which out of an affectation to be thought strong men , would needs make nothing of it to be present at those idol-festivals . thirdly , admit it were out of some degree of sound strength indeed , that our people at this day are so far from worshipping images ; yet must this strength needs be general ? shall we suppose that there are not any weak ones or little ones amongst us ? or shall the weakest of our times be supposed wiser and stronger than the wisest or strongest in former times ? those antient chaldeans , egyptians , persians , grecians , and romans , from whom we have received our principal arts and sciences ; yea , the very people of god , unto their wisest solomon ; yea , at this present day , the papists ( whose abilities in all kind of faculties , arts and sciences , languages , antiquities , subtilties and policies , who doth not acknowledge ? ) have not all these fallen by images ? and must all these , for strength of brain and ripenesse of judgement , needs come short of our little ones and very vulgar ? for what though the truth be never so abundantly preached amongst us ? is every child as ready to hear a preacher as to gape and gaze at a picture ? admit also that preachers should at all times so abound , and withall find so little to do , as to never leave calling upon men to beware of those blocks which they wittingly cast in their own way . fourthly the scripture ( we know ) judgeth covetousnesse to be a worshipping of images ; and the mere coveting of images is a kind of covetousnesse no doubt : and are there none amongst us which are culpable of that kind of covetousness ? fifthly , admit that none of our people be observed to do any perceivable worship unto images ; no more doth the covetous man do any perceivable worship unto his money , but useth it as familiarly as any thing in his house ; and yet the scripture maketh him an idolater . finally , if none of our people may be supposed to be so foolish or so weak as to worship images , why do our laws so peremptorily and continually forbid them so to do ? thou shalt not bowe down to them , nor worship them , saith our law ; and , lord , incline our hearts to keep this law , answereth the people ; and yet none of our people must be supposed so foolish as to break such a law ! surely , superfluous must the law needs be , and most frivolous the suffrage of the people ; or most presumptuous the suppose . we conclude therefore , that as the suppose is not easie to be granted , that our people are so far from worshipping images ; so also were it granted , it would not thereupon follow , that therefore our people are of such special strength and judgement ; it being no more than ignorance , profanenesse and irreligion , carnal policy and affectation have brought men unto . the . argument answered . the next allegation is this ; that admit sometime some of our people do let fall some glance of honour unto an image ; yet if it be but a civil kinde of honour and not the divine ( dulia and not latria ) no just exception can be taken thereat . against which position we thus demonstrate ; that which is properly due to the creatour may not be given to any kinde of creature ( much less unto the image of any creature ) but only by vertue of the creatours express appointment ; but all kinde of honour , glory and praise , of what degree or kinde soever , is due only to the creatour . therefore no kind of honour , glory or praise , of what degree or kind soever , may be given unto any kind of creature ( much less unto the image of any kinde of creature ) but only by vertue of the creatours express appointment : but never did the creatour appoint any jote , or scrat , or scruple of honour to be done unto images ; therefore must not any the least jote , or scrat , or scruple of honour be done unto them . touching the first ground of this our demonstration , namely , that the lords proper due must not be disposed of but by vertue of his own express appointment : it is no more then the law of the whole world doth acknowledge ; no man upon earth esteeming himself an owner of that which any besides himself hath power to dispose of : and therefore we shall not need to make any more words toward the establishing of this ground , which the free-hold of the whole world is grounded upon . likewise also our second ground , namely , that all honour , glory and praise is due only unto the lord ; is as clear a principal , and needeth no more words to establish it : the scripture every where ringing it in our ears , that unto him all honour , glory and praise is only due ; and the condition of his honour of necessity inforcing as much : for the honour of god cannot be infinite ( as of necessity it must be ) if any jote or scrat or scruple of any kinde of honour could be found not to belong unto him . notwithstanding , because we finde in the scripture how the lord appointeth us to give honour unto men ; as namely , unto parents , masters , kings , governours , &c. whereby it may be imagined , that perhaps the lord hath dispossessed himself of some kinds and portions of honour : as also , for that it may be thought that some kindes of honour are too little , or common , or base to be presented unto the lord ; and that therefore the sonnes of men are at liberty to dispose of those kindes of honour as themselves think good , and so ( finally ) to their images as they list : we therefore purpose to stay a little longer upon this point ; namely , untill we have declared , that neither gods appointing us to give any kinds of honour unto men , is of force to dispossesse himself thereof ; nor again , that the littlenesse or smallnesse or commonnesse of any kind of honour may be of force to exempt the same from belonging unto the lord. touching then the first of these , namely , that the lords appointing us to do any kinds of honour unto men , is not of force to dispossesse himself thereof , we prove ; because the rest of his gifts which he daily giveth unto men , as wisdom , riches , power , authority , &c. do not thereupon cease to belong unto the lord , but do still remain in his dominion and property neverthelesse ; even as the seed which the husbandman sprinkleth in his field , doth neverthelesse belong unto the husbandman . for as those gifts of wisdom , strength , riches , &c. so also the gifts and portions of honour which god bestoweth upon men , both may be , and also must be improved unto the lords final honour and advantage : that being ( no doubt ) the reason why our saviour appointeth us to give unto cesar the things that are cesars ; because unlesse our cesars and governours be stocked and furnished with such portions of honour , authority , &c. they shall not be able to bring up whole kingdoms , cities , towns , and families unto the lords final honour , as their office is to do . secondly , if it had been the intent of the lord , to part finally with those kinds of honour which he appointeth us to give unto men ; it had been necessary that those kinds of honour should have been specified and laid out and severed from those kinds which were to be reserved only unto the lord : for else the sonnes of men might hap in their mutual honouring one of another , to go beyond their bounds , and make bold with the lords peculiar honour : but as we no-where find any such specification or partition ; so also we may every-where find , how those kinds of honour which are most likely to be proper unto god , as might , majesty and dominion , fear and trembling , singleness of heart , &c. are notwithstanding allowed to be given unto men : as on the other side , those kinds of honour which may be thought of a more common and inferiour nature , as obedience , love , subjection , thankfulnesse , &c. are notwithstanding usually called for to be performed unto god. thirdly , if those kinds of honour which god alloweth us to perform unto men should thereupon cease to belong unto the lord , by that means neither the honour of the eye , the tongue , the knee , yea nor of the heart , nor of the singlenesse of the heart should belong unto the lord ; because with all these we honour men . we conclude therefore , that the lords appointing us to give any kinds or portions of honour unto men ( whether kings , parents , masters , &c. ) must not be of force to make us think that those kinds of honour do thereupon cease to belong unto the lord. and that the commonnesse of any kind of honour is not of force to abase it , or dismisse it from being presentable unto the lord , even no more then the commonnesse of coin doth make the coin lesse presentable unto the king , it will easily be granted . for as our receiving the sacrament with that mouth wherewith we receive common meat , is no dishonour unto the sacrament ; we having gods ordinance so to do : so likewise our honouring god with those kindes of honour wherewith we honour men , needeth not to be feared as any dishonour unto god ; we having the ordinance of god to warrant us so to do . but rather , as the money which we pay unto our creditours assignees both may be and also must be as good money ( for the quantity of it ) as that which we pay unto the creditour himself . so likewise the honour which we perform unto gods assignees ( as parents , princes , masters , &c. are ) both may be and also must be ( for the quantity of it ) as good and sound as that which we perform unto god himself . finally , that neither the littlenesse ( no more than the commonnesse ) of any kind of honour may be of force to dismiss it from presenting it self unto the lord , it is as easie ( and no less material ) to declare . for , first , if the littlenesse of any kind of honour might be of force to put it by from being presented unto the lord ; it would thereupon follow , that no honour at all should be presented unto the lord from the sonnes of men . for all the nations of men ( the scripture saith ) are not onely mean and little , but also as nothing , yea , less than nothing in his eyes . secondly , the lord every-where professeth himself the maker and creatour of all things ; and so strictly standeth upon his prerogative therein , as that ( when time was ) he would not suffer the poorest kinde of creatures that are ( even lice ) to own their production from any singer but his own . thirdly , the least degree of humane honour ( whereof only our question is ) doth it not of necessity contein the honour of the heart ? it being scarce worthy the name of an honest action , much lesse of an honourable action , which proceedeth not from the motion of the heart . but the heart we know , though it goeth alone , and is not accompanied with either knee , or tongue , or eye , or any bodily parts ( for these are oftentimes fast bound by sicknesse , imprisonments , or necessary callings ) yet is it allowed to have accesse unto the lord , and to present him with such sighs , and grones , and ejaculations , and thanks , as it thinketh good . fourthly , ( that no sacrilegious disposition may take up this trick of robbing the lord , by excusing the neglect of it , by the littlenesse or poornesse of it ) the lord himself hath said it and sworn it , that unto him every knee should bow : which also he apostle extending to the knees of things in heaven , and things on earth , and things creeping under the earth ; he giveth us fairly and plainly to know , that the least ability in the nature of man , not onely may , but also must find a knee to bend unto him ; our least muscles and knuckles , inclinations and dispositions , having more composition than the nature of angels , and more understanding than the nature of worms and creeping things have . yea the very hairs of your head are numbred , saith our saviour : and therefore if the lord keepeth a reckoning of our hairs , shall we think he will neglect the excellencies and honours of our substantial abilities ? the least lifting up of the eye , or the least motion of the lip , being able to do god more honour then multitudes of our hairs , who knoweth not ? it is true indeed , the lord sometime rejecteth some kinds of honour , as the honour of the lips , the tongue , the eyes , &c. but it is not because they be small and little , but because they that offer them are false and double , and think with their lip-labour to be quit of the lord , and so to keep their hearts and substantial parts to themselves : even like unto deceitfull debtours , which with the tendring a small sum of money , intend to defeat their creditours of the main . for else , as the penny being as good silver as the pound , and having the kings stamp as well as the pound , may not be rejected from bearing a part in the kings tribute no more than the pound : so the tongue and the lips , and never so outward abilities , being the workmanship of god , no lesse than the parts most inward and supreme , may not be debarred from tendering their offices and services unto the lord , no more then the parts never so able and supreme : the withholding the least of them being of force to make our greatest honours imperfect ( as the want of a farthing may hinder the clearing of the debt ; ) and their accesse being of force to make the greatest honours the greate ; as the least digit is of force to give an augmentation to the greatest number . we conclude therefore , that as the lords appointing us to perform divers kinds of honour unto sundry sorts of men , is not of force to dispossesse himself of those honours ; so also , neither is the commonnesse or littlenesse of any kind of honour , of any force to exempt or dismisse the same from belonging unto the lord and so the first ground of our demonstration is most certain and manifest , namely , that all kind of honour , glory and praise , of what degree or kind soever , is wholly and perpetually due only unto the lord ; and consequently , that no degree or kind of honour whatsoever , may be given to any kind of creature ( much lesse to the image of any kind of creature ) but only by vertue of the lords expresse and special appointment ; even no more than a creditours money may be payed unto any but such as the creditour hath assigned to receive it . now , that the lord never assigned nor appointed any kind of honour to be done unto images , we must take it for granted , and assuredly believe it , until we find his expresse word under his own hand-writing for it . and lest any should busie themselves unprofitably , and mispend precious time about seeking for some texts and parcels of scripture to prove such a matter , we shall give them a sufficient item to save them that labour , and that is this : that unlesse the scriptures which they bring for the honouring of images , be far more plain , peremptory , and abundant than any that can be brought for the honouring of men ( as parents , princes , masters , &c. ) they must not be admitted . and the reason of this our item and caveat is this ; because men being reasonable and understanding creatures , and such as are able to improve the honours that are done unto them , unto the honour and glory of the lord ; it is a thing not incredible unto flesh and blood , that some degrees and kindes of honour should be done to them : and therefore a few words from the mouth of god , or under his hand-writing , might be sufficient for such a purpose . but now for images , which are most palpably void of all understanding , and utterly unable to improve the honour that is done unto them unto the lords final advantage ; it must needs be a thing most incredible unto flesh and bloud , and contrary to all the rules of reason , that any honour should be done unto them ; and therefore , unless we have most peremptory charge from god so to do , and that far more abundantly than ever we had for the honouring of men , it must not be done . but so far is the scripture from such super-abundance of charge for the honouring of images , as that whereas it every-where ( and most expresly in the commandments ) teacheth the honouring of men ( as parents , masters , kings , &c. ) it scarce once affordeth any shadow of appointment for the honouring of images : and therefore we may securely conclude , that the lord did never appoint any jote or scrat of scruple of honour to be done unto them . and so our demonstration against the doing of civil honour unto images , is abundant and compleat ; the force whereof by the strings of art may thus be contrived ; that kinde of honour which the owner of all honour did never appoint us to give unto images , must not be given unto images . but the civil honour is such a kind of honour , as the owner of all honour did never appoint us to give unto images ; therefore the civil honour must not be given unto images . but because every capacity is not apt to be fastned upon by demonstrations , nor ready enough to gather negatives from the the want of affirmatives ( though in all kinde of grants and conveyances betwixt man and man , the want of an affirmative is negative sufficient ) it hath therefore seemed good unto the indulgence of god , to declare his mind in this point to be expresly negative : and that not only in general , when he forbiddeth the worshipping of any thing which he hath not commanded ; and elsewhere he saith , my glory will i not give to another , neither my praise to graven images ; but also most especially , and with his own mouth from heaven , when he saith , thou shalt not bowe down to them nor worship them ; there being no kind of honour , whether actual or intentional , real or personal , corporal or spiritual , natural or moral , domestick or civil , divine or humane , but may easily be found most palpably forbidden in that short clause . yea , what kind of honour can be imagined but may be found denyed unto images in the first half of that clause , thou shalt not bowe down unto them ? for all honour being testimonium excellentiae , and attributing some degree of excellency to the person unto whom it is given ; it must needs be , that whosoever giveth honour , doth with all perform some degree of bowing down : the attributing of excellency of necessity implying some bending , stouping and submission of the mind at least . for though some degrees of bowing down do not proceed so far as to be visible and outward , yet may they be true and real bowings down nevertheless : even as well as there be many kinds of knees which are not bodily and visible ( as the knees of spirits , hearts , and angels ) and yet are true and real knees even by the judgement of the scripture . secondly , admit there were some kindes of honour which did not imply a bowing down ( at least in the judgement of such weak ones as know not bowing down , but that which is outward and visible ) yet when the commandment addeth further , neither shalt thou worship them , what could be said more toward the barring them all possible honour whatsoever ? thirdly , in our english style , the title worshipfull is more common than the title honourable , and inferiour thereunto : and therefore the things which must not be worshipped , much lesse may be honoured . fourthly , if all honour include either a bowing down , or a doing worship , then much more must the civil honour be found so to do : it being a necessary condition in the civil honour , that it be not onely a true and real honour , but also that it be an outward and visible honour ; for else it cannot serve to distinguish one person from another , as the intent of civil honour is to do . fifthly , if by civil honour we mean those kinds of honour which passe betwixt man and man ; so we shall both bow down to images and worship them also , if we give them civil honour in that sense : for unto men we usually bow down , and term them worshipfull , honourable , excellent , majestical , &c. yea , prostration and adoration ( nam civilis est adoratio , quis nescit ? ) have been esteemed allowable unto men . sixthly , if by civil honour we mean those kinds of honour which are due to the civil body , and the heads thereof ; so the civil honour shall contain a principal kind of honour . for if parents and masters , which are but members of the civil body , must be honoured with fear and trembling , and singlenesse of heart ; then much more must the civil body it self , or such as represent the same , be so honoured . again , if by civil honour we mean only such forms of honour as by local and civil constitutions do passe for acknowledgements of honour ; such as peradventure the uncovering of the head may be esteemed : ( for the uncovering of the head is not in all nations , and from the woman-kind in no nation , esteemed as a doing of honour ) yet we must know , that when once any ceremony is admitted for a form of honour , and is habituated thereunto , it must be esteemed as a civil knee ; and the doing so much unto an image , must be judged a bowing down thereunto , and that of the nobler kind of knee . finally , they that set forth the civil honour by the term of dulia , with telling us that it is no idolatry , unlesse latria be given unto images ; they do but give us exchange of words , greek and forein terms , for familiar and modern ; tha● so the truth being obscured and puddled by the means , their idols may the better give us the slip . for the word dulia signifying service , and all service implying a bowing down ; it is plain , that the giving so much unto images , is a palpable bowing down unto them . secondly , the word latria signifying only such a kind of service as consisteth in famulation and attendance , which is the most easie and liberal kind of service ; it is plain , that if the giving so much unto images be granted to be against the commandment , then the giving so much as dulia is apt to signifie , is much more against the commandment . thirdly , it is manifest in the greek text , that dulia and latria are ordinarily used as words of one and the same signification ; and that latria as usually given unto men , and dulia as usually unto god. so as well might b. jewel compare this distinction to that of the physicians wife , who when ( belike ) she had maintained that pepper . was cold , and thereupon was opposed by some of the wives , that it was hot enough in the mouth : she salved the matter with this distinction , that though it was hot in working , yet it might be cold in operation ; and so with her learned distinction put all the women to a stamme , and with a strong hand carried the cause : and so we may well think , that when this image-worshiping ( or image-honouring ) was first commended unto the world , and withall was opposed by those that were faithfull unto the commandment ; the maintainers of it , partly being too great and too head-strong to mend their errour , and partly not being impudent enough to deny the commandment , and partly ( finally ) not being allowed to work otherwise than by argument , at length drew forth these distinctions , that it was but a civil honour , and not the divine , only dulia and not latria , which they allowed unto images : and so by the means of such new and strange terms , they put many of their opposers to a stamme ; especially such as more loved the peace of the world than the peace of conscience , or thought it an imputation to their learning , not to understand greek , and far-fetcht distinctions , though never so senseless and impertinent . but when at length it grew most manifest , that through the gap of these distinctions the commandment of god was not only notoriously incroached upon , but also in a manner trodden under foot ; it was time for the servants of god to stand in the gap , and to resist such incroachers to the face . and for this cause , we for our part have taken the more pains about the stubbing up these distinctions ; which hitherto have been the special ivy-tods where these images have a long time harboured themselves and bred their paddocks in ; and whereunto , when at any time they have been closely pursued , they have used to betake themselves , as their onely sanctuary and refuge : which after they shall be once finally put by , they shall be plainly discovered to be stark-naked stocks and blocks , and not onely unworthy of any honour , but also most worthy to be thrown into the fire . the . argument answered . the sixth allegation is this ; that images are profitable for many good and holy uses . whereunto we answer , that satan also may be found profitable for many good uses ; for he is able to change himself into an angel of light : and yet the children of god must have nothing to do with him . as also they that compassed sea and land to make a proselyte , no doubt were commendable for industry and many good parts : and yet their disciples were far the worse for them . and the false steward which was thrust out of his lords house for doing unjustly , was notwithstanding acknowledged able to do wittily and wisely . yea , mere natural men have been wiser than to be taken with this kind of argument : witnesse those lacedemonians , which would not suffer the poet archilochus to be read in their schools ( though they acknowledged him to excell for wit and poetry ) nè plus moribus noceret quàm ingeniis prodesset . yea , the principal advancers of images ( the church of rome ) will not admit of this kind of argument in their behalf ; for though they acknowledge the scripture to be both profitable and divine , yet will they not suffer thereupon that the scriptures should be published . and yet the profitableness of the scripture is incomparably more ( were it not impiety to make such comparisons ) than the profitableness of images ; and the danger incomparably lesse ; every childe and innocent being in danger to take harm by images , whereas none but the perversely minded are in danger to take harm by the sincere , milken , divine , and grace-ministring scriptures . secondly , there being such a profanesse in the heart of man to sin by images , even to the making gods of them , or the worshipping them ; it had need be some great weight of profit ( no lesse peradventure than the weight of necessity ) that may make the use of them be esteemed so much as profitable . for though a man may catch fish with a golden hook , yet who will judge it a profitable course to fish with a golden hook ? the losse of one golden hook being more than an hundred catchings will countervail . yea , better it were , saith our homily , that the arts of painting , plaistering , carving , graving , and founding had never been found nor used , than one of them whose souls in the sight of god are so precious , should by occasion of image or picture perish and be lost . thirdly , admit we could never so securely and without danger make profitable uses of images : yet if the lord our god be a jealous god , and so professeth himself to be , it concerneth us first to be well assured whether the jealousie of god be not likely to be offended with our conversing with such kinde of things . for the jealous husband is not content with this , that his wife is a profitable wife , and a thrifty wife , and a chaste wife , unlesse she also refraineth the companie of the man which her husband hath professed his jealousie against ; for the husband that is not jealous , will expect so much at his wives hand , that she be both profitable and chaste also ; and therefore the jealous husband ( and consequently the jealous god ) must be further gratified than so . fourthly , if it be found that the lord is not only a jealous god , but also especially jealous against images ; then the profit which may ( though lawfully ) be made of images , not onely should be of no force with us to admit of them , but should rather be of force with us to abandon them . for as a subject whose prince holdeth him in jealousie concerning his crown , the more good parts he hath , and the more popular he is , the more hasty ought the true subjects be to suppress him or abase him , rather than to make any special reckoning of him : so also these images , it once it be found by them that the lord standeth in jealousie of them concerning his honour and throne , the more profitable and plausible things they are supposed to be , the more speedy ought the servants of god be to deface them , rather than for their supposed usefullnesse to regard or indure them . the . argument answered . the seventh allegation is this ; that images are special good to give instruction . whereunto we answer , that there is nothing in all the world so silly or so barren , but that some kernels of instruction may be picked therefrom : i went by the field of the slothfull , saith solomon , and lo , nettles had covered the face thereof , &c. — i looked upon it , and received instruction . so that a very nettle-bush may prove a book of instruction to them that can turn such kind of books : the wit of man being as apt to sack intellectuals out of every thing it lighteth upon , as the bee is able to contrive honey out of the very weeds . and so , no doubt , these images may occasion good meditations , and serve to put us in mind of things most excellent and divine ; even as the sight of a stable or a manger may move us to think upon our saviour , and the consideration of sin or satan may incline us unto devotion and thanksgiving : but that images are special good to give instruction , ( which is the question ) that we deny . for first , all the instruction which they afford is only concerning matters of fact ; namely , that such a thing was done ( or supposed to be done ) or that such a person or creature there was : but whether the fact , person , or creature , &c. was good or bad , whether to be imitated or avoided ; and what were the causes , ends , effects , and consequents of such things ( without which kind of knowledge there can be no edifying instruction ) they cannot say . secondly , as the instruction which images afford , is only concerning matters of fact ; so also do they not declare so much with any certainty , but rather they make things more uncertain than they were : things comming within the compasse of fables and fictions after once the painters and carvers ( which think they may lye by authority ) have had a hand in them . thirdly , the instruction which they afford is only such as the outward eye is capable of : for neither the ear ( which is the principal door of instruction ) nor any of the other senses , are so much as capable of image-instruction . indeed there is some kind of knowledge ( we may grant ) which cannot so readily be had as by images : as namely , what kind of countenance peter , or paul , or the dead had ; or persons far remote have : but yet , as such kind of knowledge can have no certainty in it ( and what goodnesse in knowledge without certainty ? ) so also were it never so certain , what is the beholder the better for it ? for is he able to make his countenance according ? or if he could , what should he be the better ? for a fool may resemble a wise man in the outward countenance ; a wicked man , a saint ; a peasant , a prince ; and yet remain wicked , base , and foolish neverthelesse . fourthly , as the instruction which images afford , is common , uncertain , and such as the outward eye only is sensible of ; so also for the most part it is such as none can make any thing of , but such as knew the matter before . for as one that is dumb , may perhaps with his becknings and noddings and putting out his finger , do some common intelligence to such as have wit enough to understand him : so these images , if they meet with one that loveth to stand ridling and spelling something out of a wall or a gay , like enough they may seem to say something ; but else ( as our homily noteth out of hierom ) they do but amaze and dull the understanding of the unlearned , with their golden sentences and eloquences , and so leave them . fifthly , these images do take up a great deal more roomth and breadth in the fansie and outward sences than needeth : for such , we know , is the agility of humane capacity , as that it can upon the least sight of ordinary things ( though it be but a rush about the finger , or the least serole of letters upon a paper ) be put in mind of things never so distant and important : so far is it from needing clusters of images , or whole pourtraitures , to be put in mind of common things . sixthly , these images do fret and eat into the fansie and outward sences more deeply and indelibly than other courses and means of instruction use to do . for as our table-books , the more deeply and hardly they be written upon , the sooner they are attrited and worn away : so our fansie and outward senses , the more deeply that notions be imprinted in them , the sooner will their abrasity , voydablenesse , and receptivity ( which are the peculiar conditions of those outward senses ) be distempered and confounded . now , whereas voyces , and letters , and other means of instruction ( which do not wrap up their notions in images ) do readily passe through these common senses ; and having presented their matter to the inward senses , presently vanish away ; these images do not so : but being such kind of things as the fansie and outward senses are apt to be tickled and pleased withall , they dally and play with them , and soke into them . and as idle travellers turn their innes into dwelling-houses ; so do these turn our table-books into paper-books , and make ( in a manner ) their final repose in those faculties which are intended only for passage and conveyance . moreover , by reason of this over-deep inhesion of these images in the fansie and outward senses , not only those outward senses are attrited , distempered and perverted by the means , but also the inward senses are wronged and defrauded . for as our bodily meat , if it stick over toughly in the stomach , our inward veins and appetites must remain so much the longer empty and unserved ; so likewise the nutriment of the mind ( which is nothing but notions ) the longer it is reteined in the outward senses , the longer must our inward senses remain jejune and without their sustenance : it being a good reason which seneca giveth , why he would have us well to digest our reading , because , saith he , alioquin in memoriam ibunt , non in ingenium . i. e. otherwise they will stuff the memory , but the wit and judgement they will augment little or nothing at all . yea , finally , by such tough cleaving of the notions unto the fansie and outward senses , the inward senses shall not only be delayed and defrauded , but also vitiated and infected . for the inward senses having nothing to sustein them but that which is conveyed unto them through the passages and conduits of the outward senses , if those outward senses be so ingrained and dyed ( or rather daubed over ) with those glaring and infective notions , how shall it be avoided , but that all the notions which passe through them will also tast of the cask , and so feed the inward senses with the like kind of glaring , gross , impure , fantastical , and in the end idololatrical notions ? so as this supposed most excellent property of images , namely , for that they can so deeply imprint their notions in the memory and outward senses , may rather be esteemed as a principal exception against them , and enough to make all those that desire to be divinely ( or but intellectually ) minded , to abandon them . the . argument answered . the eighth allegation is this ; that they are special quickners of devotion . whereunto we answer ; if the instruction which they afford , be so grosse , common , uncertain , impure , and dangerous as we have declared ; how can the devotion be any better which ariseth therefrom ? for if we should suppose that without the means of foregoing instruction they are able to beget us with devotion , such a suppose were a right-down making gods of them ; it being the property of god only , illabi menti , to touch immediately upon the soul without the means of some foregoing instruction preparing thereunto . secondly , when at any time the saints and servants of god in their hymnes and songs did cite all the works of god to blesse and praise the lord , yet never did they say , o ye images , blesse ye the lord : though images , being apt to make as fair a shew as the best , if they had been thought such special quickners of devotion , how could they have been left out in those general musters , where not so much as nights , and darknesse , and worms are allowed to be absent ? thirdly , the life and apple of true devotion consisting in nothing so much as in the immediate fruition of god ; it must needs be , that the things which are most apt to further our devotion unto god , should have most congruity with the nature and properties of god : but so have not images ; but are rather more discrepant from the nature and properties of god than any other kinds of things whatsoever . for while the lord calleth one way , what do they but call another way ? while the lord calleth inwardly , they call outwardly : while the lord calleth to the centre , they call to the circumference : while the lord standeth knocking at the door of the heart , they stand rapping at the door of the outward eye , and playing upon the ball thereof ; whereat unlesse they enter , their very life and being is at an end : whereas the lord , on the contrary , is so far from entring at that kind of door , as that when once he spake to his people face to face , the outward eye was not vouchsafed the least glimpse of his countenance , but a perpetual memento was given to the contrary , that then they saw no similitude , but only heard a voice . the lord also usually maketh darknesse his secret place , his pavilion round about him ; whereas these images hate all darknesse no less than the gates of death . yea , finally , not only in their conditions , operations , and habitations , but also in their very natures , what more contrary than god and images ? for whereas the lord is altogether invisible ; these images are nothing else but visible : whereas the lord is incomprehensible ; these images every childes eye can comprehend : as also , whereas the lord is almighty ; these images are the most mightless things that are : the lord again is all spirit and life ; but images are worse than dead ; for the dead were once alive : finally , the lord is all truth , but images are all false and counterfeit : those being counted the most excellent images which come nearest unto the life ; and the nearer a thing commeth to the life when it is most void of life ( mendacium quò verisimilius eò nequius ) being so much the worse . but very like it will be answered against all that we have hitherto said , that though images have no congruity with the divine nature of god , yet well may they resemble his humane nature , and so in that respect become so especially operative unto devotion . whereunto we answer ; that if very living man upon earth doth incomparably more lively represent the humane nature of god than any image possibly can , then how can any image be so special good for such a purpose ? secondly , admit some picture could set forth the natural countenance of our saviour more peculiarly than the countenance of any living man ever did ( though who can be certain of any such matter ? ) yet , we know , the vertue and efficacy of our saviours incarnation did not consist in this , that he was a man of such or such a countenance ; but only in this , that he took mans nature upon him . thirdly , the scribes and pharisees did well know his natural countenance indeed ; as also they that crucified him : and yet they had no more devotion toward him than they that most mortally hated him . fourthly , st. paul telling us , that if we had known christ after the flesh , yet now must we know him so no more ; even so much might be of sufficient force to put us beside this grosse conceit , that the picture of our saviours natural countenance is so specially operative unto devotion . but ( once more ) very like it will be alledged , that the efficacy of such a picture doth not consist so much either in that it so representeth his humane nature , or in that it so lively expresseth his natural countenance , as in this , that it setteth forth his death and sufferings : and such a kind of image ( called the crucifix ) hath been found by experience to be so powerfull unto devotion , as that many beholders have not been able to withhold from tears at the sight thereof . concerning which kind of image , we desire to be endured a while , until we make some what a large answer . first therfore we demand who they are that such kind of images do so work upon , are they believers , or are they unbelievers ? as for the unbelievers , it is most like that they will rather despise him that so suffered , than be moved to regard him ( much lesse to put confidence in him ) thereupon : it being most likely in the eyes of flesh and blood , that the person which so suffered was not so much as an innocent person : or if so ; yet that he was rather some poor wretch that was not able to save himself from the fury of his enemies , then such an one as could with the least breath of his mouth have destroyed all his enemies ; there being nothing in the picture to lead him unto any better constructions . yea , if the unbelieving beholder be a malicious infidel , the picture may move him to insult over the god that so suffered , and to carry such images about in his processions and triumphs , the better to please and magnifie his own false gods . but if they must be onely believers which shall be so edified by those kind of images ; yet if there be other courses ▪ nearer hand , which may more readily and abundantly put us in mind of those sufferings , then is not thy crucifix so speciall good for such a purpose : which is the question . for that short article of our creed , he was crucified , dead , and buried , descended into hell , doth it not far more readily , plainly , certainly , abundantly , securely , and wholesomely set forth the sufferings of our saviour , then the image possibly can ? first , more readily it doth : in that every child can have the article ready at his fingers end ; whereas the image , were it never so portable , cannot alwayes be at hand . secondly , more plainly it doth : in that it expressely telleth us who it was that so suffered ; whereas the image doth onely present unto us a man fast nailed to a crosse , but who the man was , or whether he was so much as an innocent or a malefactour , it is not able to say . thirdly , more certainly it doth : in that the article is the voice of god and of the whole church of god ; whereas the image is but the device of men , and of such kind of men as challenge a liberty to deceive . fourthly , more abundantly it doth : in that it informeth us that he was both crucified , dead and buried , and withal descended into hell ; whereas the image doth onely declare his crucifying , and no more . finally , more securely and without indangering the beholder it doth : namely , for that it presenteth all these sufferings and undergoings onely to the eare ; whereas the image presenting them to the outward eye , and withall still remaining constantly in sight without vanishing away , is apt to detein the fancie of the beholder , and allure him to dwell upon it , and to imbrace , and perhaps to bemone it , and bedabble it with carnall tears , and to speak unto it , and call upon it , and , pigmalion-wise , to wish it alive , and in the end to bow down unto it , and worship it , and make a perfect idol of it : for what more apt to become an idol then such an image as is supposed to be a speciall image of our god , and from whence ( as it were from a pap ) men are appointed and wonted to suck their daily devotions ! moreover , as these kind of images can adde nothing to the knowledge of the weakest believers concerning the sufferings of our saviour ; so do they also greatly dishonour , profane and vilifie those infinite and unexpressable sufferings of our saviour : namely in this ; in that they make no more of them then may be made of the sufferings of mortall men . for all they that at any time suffered the like death of the crosse , if they had been pictured as they hung in their agonies and torments , would they not have been more dolefull spectacles then any crucifix did ever represent ! the more wicked also the person is that so suffereth , the more dismall and wofull the outward appearance of his pains being likelie to be . yea , not onely the most precious sufferings of our saviour are profaned , and infinitely vilified by such kind of vulgar and common expressions , but also his majestie and person is plainly belyed and blasphemed by the means : namely in this ; that his person is exposed to the view of the world , as hanging actually dead upon a crosse , and double gibbet , whereas he now actually is , and for ever shall be sitting at the right hand of god in the state of eternall glory . and shall then such kind of images not onely be made of him , but also be commended unto his servants as the speciall motives unto devotion ? or shall the tears which ( belike ) do flow from the beholders of such images , be esteemed such undoubted arguments of such devotions ? as if there were not false tears , as well as true tears ; blind and superstitious devotion , as well as that which is sound and good ! for if the heathen , when they were at their superstitions , could mutuum stuporem alere , stupifie and amaze one another to see linteatum senem mediâ lucernam die praeferentem ; and such like authorized and senseless lies ▪ can we make question , but that hypocrites also in the church of god will be as active to cast themselves into the like sits and pangs of devotion , and that even to the expression of tears ! or , at the best , is it not very like that such kind of tears have no better original then the tears of those women had which so lamented when they saw our saviour go to his suffering ? which , if our saviour so rejected , when be bade them not weep for him , but weep for themselves ; is it likely that he will be any better pleased with thy like kind of tears which now also most unseasonably ( he being now past all possibility of suffering ) thou bemonest him withal , and that at the motion of an image ? but if thou hast a desire , o man , to present thy god with a drink-offering of acceptable tears indeed ; follow that counsel which he gave those women , and weep not for him , but weep for thy self . and if thou hast a desire to weep for thy self , enter into thy self , and behold thy sin ; for thy sin is the onely fountain-head of acceptable tears . and within thee thou maiest most lively behold thy sin flourishing in all the quarters and regiments of thy whole man : yea , if thou dost but descend into the cellars of thine own hard heart , thou mayest see how from under the flintstone thereof thy sin bubbleth up , and fometh out , and playeth forth , and streameth along continually : so as , if thou hast a desire to weep rivers of tears for sin , there thou shalt find continual materialls for the purpose . and in comparison of this course , thy going to thine image to help thee to weep for thy sin , is a plain going about the bush , and all one as if thou shouldest go to thy physicians picture to move thee to lament thy surfeting and drunkenness , when as thou hast a burning ague gnawing upon thee , which is the natural daughter , scourge and monitour of that thy surfeting and drunkenness . we conclude therefore , that as no kind of images are specially good ( if any way good ) for instruction and devotion ; so those kind of images which intend to make expressions of god , our saviour , &c. ( which kind of images our homilie judgeth to be most dangerous ) are more like to bring us into the pits of perdition , then unto the springs of devotion ; and to plunge us in the lakes of idolls , then to further us unto the fruition of the invisible god : whose coming , we know , is not with observation , or with a lo here , and , lo there ; look this way , and look that way ; look upon this image , or look upon that : for behold , o man , thy god is within thee , and within thee he must be found : as also the devotions which he meaneth to be enterteined withal , must be kindled within thee : for within thee there is a flint-stone , even thy heart , which being often attrited upon with the steel of gods word , the tinder of christ crucified will foster the sparklings thereof , until the breath of his spirit shall have lighted thee a candle therewith ; and then thou shalt soon be able to kindle such a fire in thy inner man , as the almighty god ( whom the heavens cannot contein ) will condescend unto , sit with thee at , and sup with thee by ; and finally , prefer before all the flashes and wild-fire-works of mortal mans divising whatsoever . and now , christian reader , you have as much as we promised in the beginning ; namely , our answers unto those allegations in the behalf of images which we then specified . there be other arguments also which use to be made in their behalf , which deserve to be no lesse excepted against , and which we hope our selves to find a time to do ; our title , toward the vindication of the second commandment , keeping alwayes our door open for such additions . these answers which we have premised , we take to be both sound and safe , and agreeable with the church of england ; as also we are perswaded that the almighty god will be pleased with the publication thereof : and therefore we commend the perusal of them unto such as have authority in that kind of business . and so we finally commend them , and our selves , and every indifferent reader unto the grace of god. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ps . . . sam. . . matth. . isa . . . ezek. . , . matth. . . exod. . josh . . . isaiah . . liv. dec . . lib. . august . in psal . august . de civ . dei . . august . in psal . . plin. hist. nat . . isa . lact. . . tom. . hom . . part . naclantus , in rom. . cited more largely in the homily , tom. . hom . . p. . * constantius , in lib. carol. magn. ‖ bellarm. de imag . sanct. lib. . cap. . rev. . . joh. . . rev. . . acts . , . tom. . hom . p. . contra adimant . cap. . cor. . col. . . ephes . . . isa . . . exod. . , , . isa . . phil. . . mat. . . deut ● . . isa . . . andrews , resp ad ballarm . apol. . repl. art . . . cor. . . matth. . . luke . valer max. lib. . cap. . tom. . hom . p. . prov. . , , . tom. . hom . . p. . epist . . deut. . . psa . . . cor. . . seneca , de vita beata , . luke . . tom. . h. . p. . luk. . , . an ordinance of the lords and commons assembled in parliament for the utter demolishing, removing, and taking away of all monvments of superstition and idolatry out of all the churches england and wales. parliament. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing e a). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing e a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an ordinance of the lords and commons assembled in parliament for the utter demolishing, removing, and taking away of all monvments of superstition and idolatry out of all the churches england and wales. parliament. p. printed for edward husbands, [london] : . dated on p. : die lunae, augusti, . reproduction of original in the harvard university library. eng church of england -- customs and practices. idols and images -- law and legislation -- england. great britain -- history -- civil war, - -- sources. a r (wing e a). civilwar no an ordinance of the lords and commons assembled in parliament, for the utter demolishing, removing and taking away of all monvments of super england and wales. parliament d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an ordinance of the lords and commons assembled in parliament , for the utter demolishing , removing and taking away of all monvments of superstition or jdolatry , out of all the churches and chappels within this kingdom of england , and dominion of wales , before the first day of november , . ordered by the commons in parliament , that this ordinance be forthwith printed & published : h : el●ynge , cler. parl. d. com. printed for edward husbands , october . . die lunae , . , augusti , . the lords and commons in parliament taking into their serious considerations , how well pleasing it is to god , and conduceable to the blessed reformation in his worship , so much desired by both houses of parliament , that all monuments of superstition or idolatry , should , be removed and demollished ; do ordain , that in all and every the churches and chappels , as well cathedrall and collegiate , as other churches and chappels , and other usuall places of publick prayer , authorised by law within this realm of england and dominion of wales , all altars and tables of stone , shall before the first day of november , in the yeer of our lord god . be utterly taken away and demollished ; and also all communion tables removed from the east end of every such church , chappell , or place of publick prayer , and chancell of the same , and shall be placed in some other fit & convenient place or places of the body of the said church , chappell , or other such place of publick prayer , or of the body of the chancel of every such church , chappell , or other such place of publick prayer ; and that all rails whatsoever , which have been erected neer to before , or about any altar , or communion table , in any of the said churches or chappells , or other such place of publick prayer at aforesaid , shall before the said day be likewise taken away ; and the chancell ground of every such church or chappell , or other place o● publick prayer , which hath been within twenty yeers last past , raised for any altar or communion table to stand upon , shall before the said day be laid down , and levelled as the same was before the said twenty yeers last past ; and that all tapers , candlestickes and basons , shall before the said day be removed and taken away from the communion table in every such church , chappell , or other place of publick prayer , and neither the same , nor any such like shall be used about the same at any time after the said day ; and that all crucifixes , crosses , and all images and pictures of any one or more persons of the trinity , or of the virgin mary , and all other images and pictures of saints , or superstitious inscriptions in , or upon all and every the said churches or chappells or other places of publick prayer , church-yards , or other places to any the said churches and chappels ; or other place of publick prayer , belonging , or in any other open place , shall before the said first day of november be taken away and defaced , and none of the like hereafter permitted in any such church or chappell , or other places as aforesaid . and be it further ordain'd that all and every such removall of the said altars , tables of stone , communion table tapers candlesticks and basons , crucifixes and crosses , images , and pictures as aforesaid , taking away of the said rayles , levelling of the said grouds , shal be done and performed , and the walls , windowes , grounds , and other places which shall be broken , impaired or altered by any the meanes aforesaid , shall be made up and repaired in good and sufficient manner , in all and every of the said parish-churches on chappels , or usuall places of publick prayer belonging to any parish , by the churchwarden , or church-wardens of every such parish for the time being respectively ; and in any cathedrall or collegiate church or chappell , by the dean or sub-dean , or other chiefe officer of every such church or chappell for the time being ; and in the universities , by the severall heads and governours of every colledge or hall respectively ; and in the severall innes of court , by the benchers and readers of every of the same respectively , at the cost and charges of all and every such person or persons , body politick or corporate , or parishioners of every parish respectively to whom the charge of the repaire of any such church , chappell , chancel , or place of publick prayer , or other , part of such church or chappell , or place of publick prayer doth , or shall belong : and in case default , be made in any of the premisses by any of the person or persons thereunto appointed by this ordinance from , and after the said first day of november , which shall be in the yeer of our lord god . that then every such person or persons so making default , shall for every such neglect or default , by the space of twenty dayes , forfeit and lose forty shillings to the use of the poore of the said parish wherein such default shall be made , or if it be out of any parish , then to the use of the poore of such parish whose church is or shall be neerest to the church or chappell , or other place of publick prayer where such default shal be made ; and if default shal be made after the first day of december , which shall be in the said yeer . then any one justice of the peace of the county , city or town where such default shall be made , upon information thereof to him to be given , shall cause or procure the promisses to be performed according to the tenor of this ordinance at the cost and charges of such person or persons , bodies politick or corporate , or inhabitants in every parish who are appointed by this ordinance to bear the same . provided , that this ordinance , or any thing therein contained , shall not extend to any image , picture , or coate of armes in glasse , stone , or otherwise ; in any church , chappell , church-yard or place of publick prayer as aforesaid , set up or graven only fo● 〈…〉 〈…〉 ment of any king , prince , or nobleman , or other dead person which hath not been commonly reputed or taken for a saint : but that all such images , pictures , and coates of armes may stand and continue in like manner and forme , as if this ordinance had never been made . finis . ordered by the commons assembled in parliament , that this ordinance be forthwith printed ; and divulged and dispersed through the severall and respective counties , cities and towns , by the severall and respective knights and burgesses : h : elsynge , cler. parl. d. com. a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome and the danger of salvation in the communion of it in an answer to some papers of a revolted protestant : wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticism and divisions of that church / by edward stilingfleet. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome and the danger of salvation in the communion of it in an answer to some papers of a revolted protestant : wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticism and divisions of that church / by edward stilingfleet. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by robert white for henry mortlock, london : . reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. idols and images. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the danger of salvation in the communion of it : in answer to some papers of a revolted protestant . wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticism and divisions of that church . by edward stillingfleet d. d. london , printed by robert white , for henry mortlock at the sign of the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster hall , . the preface . although i see no great effect of the courtship commonly used towards the candid and ingenuous reader , unless it be in diverting the censure from the book to the preface : yet in some cases it looks like a breach of the readers priviledge , not to give him an account of the occasion and design of a book . especially , when the matter handled therein , hath been thought so often discussed , and is of so general concernment , that every pretender thinks he knows as much already , as is to be known in it . but we really find no greater advantage hath been given to our adversaries than this , that the things in dispute between us are generally no better understood , by the persons they have their designs upon . for assoon as they have baffled their ignorance and mistakes , these have been ready to yield up themselves and the cause , imagining nothing more could be said for it , than they could say for themselves . whereby our church hath not only suffered in its reputation , as far as that is concerned in the weakness of some of its members ; but strange boasts and triumphs have been made by those of the church of rome , when such who understood not their own religion have embraced theirs . while these disputes were fresh in the world , every one thought himself concerned to enquire into them ; but since our church hath been so long established on the principles of the reformation , and other unhappy controversies have risen up ; the most have taken this cause for granted , and thought it needless to enquire any farther into the grounds of it . which our adversaries perceiving , they have found far greater success in their attempts upon particular persons , than in publick writings : for these have only provoked others to lay open the palpable weakness of their cause , whereas in the other by their wayes of address , and all the arts of insinuation , they have instilled their principles into the minds of some less judicious persons before they were aware of it . thence it is easie to observe that the greatest mischief they have done , hath been like the pestilence by walking in darkness , and spreading their infection by whispers in corners . all their hopes and strength lye in the weakness and credulity of the persons they deal with ; but if they meet with any who truly understand the differences between us , they soon give them over as untractable . but to such , whose employments have not given them leave to enquire or whose capacity hath not been great enough to discern their sophistry ; their first work is , to make a false representation both of the doctrines and practices of their church , and if they be of such easie faith to believe them , they from thence perswade them into an ill opinion of their teachers , who possessed them with so bad thoughts of such a church as theirs . a church of so great holiness ( as may be seen by the saint-like lives of their popes and converts ) a church of so great antiquity ( bating only the primitive times ) a church of so admirable unity ( saving the divisions in it ) a church so free from any fanatick heats ( as any one may believe that will. ) if this first assault doth not make them yield ; but they desire at least time to consider and advise in a matter of so great importance , then they tell them there is not a man of our church dares give any of them a meeting ; if they offer to pu● it to a tryal , they will appoint a day which they foresee will be most inconvenient for the persons they are to meet with . if upon that account , it be declined or deferred , this is spred abroad for a victory ; if it be accepted , then one thing or other happens that they cannot come ; either the person goes out of town unexpectedly , or his superiours have forbidden him ; or such conferences are not safe for them ( they are so sorely persecuted ) or at last , what good can an hours talk do to satisfie any one in matters of religion ? but if there be no remedy , which they are seldome without ; and a conference happen , ( which they scarce ever yield to , but when they are sure of the person for whose sake it is ; ) then whosoever was baffled , they are sure to go away with the triumph ; and as an evidence of it , such a person went off from our church upon it , which was made sure of their side before . if this way takes not , then a sett of questions is ready to be sent ; if another be returned to them to be answered at the same time , this is declined , and complained of as hard dealing , as though they had only the priviledge of putting questions , and we the duty of answering them . if answers be given to them , after a pass or two they put an end to the tryal of their skill in that place , and seek for another to shew it in . but if the papers chance to be slighted , or business hinders a present answer , or there be a reasonable presumption , that the person concerned hath already forsaken our church , this becomes the occasion of a new triumph , the papers are accounted unanswerable ( as the spanish armado was called invincible , which we thank god we found to be otherwise ) and it may be are demanded again as trophies to be preserved for the glory of the catholick cause . all these several wayes i have had experience of in the compass of a few years , since by command i was publickly engaged in the defence of so excellent a cause , as that of our church against the church of rome . i confess it seemed somewhat hard to me , to be put to answer so many several papers which i have received upon their tampering with particular persons of our church , while my book it self remained unanswered by them , after so many years of trying their strength about it . ( for those two who in some small measure have attempted it , have performed it in the way that ratts answer books , by gnawing some of the leaves of them ; for the body and design of it remains wholly untouched by them . ) but for the satisfaction of any person who desired it , i was not willing to decline any service , which tended to so good an end , as the preserving any member of our church in the communion of it : which was the occasion of this present writing . for some time since , the person concerned , after some discourses with her , brought me the two questions mentioned in the beginning of the book ; to which i returned a speedy answer in the midst of many other employments ; not long after , i received the reply ; but hearing for a great while no further of the person for whose sake this discourse began , and having affairs more than enough to take up my time , i laid aside the papers , supposing that business at an end . but about christmass last , they were called for by a near friend of the party concerned , and a personal conference being declined , an intimation was given me , that the papers were thought unanswerable . i began to fear so too , for at first i could not find them ; but assoon as i did , i found the great improvement they had made by lying so long , for what at first i looked on as inconsiderable , was in that time thought to be too strong to be meddled with ; and i could not tell what they might come to in time , if i let them alone any longer . and i was informed by a worthy person that i. s. the man of confidence and principles , had expressed great wonder i had not answered them ; as though we had no cause to wonder that the noble science of controversie should be so abandoned by him , and that a man of such mettal should all this while leave his poor demonstrations alone to defend themselves ? vpon these suggestions i resolved , as fast as other imployments would give leave ( for we are not those happy men to have only one thing to mind ) to give a full and punctual answer to them . which i have now made publick , and printed the papers themselves at large , that my adversary may not complain of any injury done him by mis-representing his words , or meaning . and besides other reasons , i the rather chose to appear in publick , to draw them from their present way of pickeering and lying under hedges , to take advantage of some stragling members of our church , not so able to defend themselves ; and whom they rather steal from us than conquer , being blinded with their smoke , more than overcome by any strength of argument . if they have any thing to say , either against our church , or in defence of their own , let them come into the open field , from which they have of late so wisely withdrawn themselves , finding so little success in it . and since these disputes must be , i am very well pleased , that the adversary i have now to deal with , hath the character of a learned and ingenuous man ; and i do not desire he should lose it in the debate between us ; hoping that nothing shall proceed from me , but what becomes a fair and ingenuous adversary . if i were not fully satisfied that we have truth and reason on our side , i should never have been engaged in these combats ; i am so great a friend to the peace of the christian world , that i could take more pleasure in ending one controversie , than in being able to handle as many as the most voluminous schoolmen have ever done : for however noble some may think , the science of controversie to be , i am not fond of the practice of it , especially being managed with so much heat and passion , such scorn and contempt of adversaries , so many reproaches and personal reflections , ( as they commonly are ) as if men forgot to be christians , when they began to be disputants . i do not think it such a mighty matter to throw dirt in a mans face , and then to laugh at him , or ( rather to take a metaphor now from dry weather ) to raise such a dust as may endanger the eye-sight of weaker persons . i think it no great skill to make things appear either ridiculous or dark , but to give them their due colours , and set them in the clearest light shewes far more art and ingenuity . and even that smartness of expression , without which controversie will hardly go down with many , seems but like the throwing vinegar upon hot coals , which gives a quick scent for the present , but vanishes immediately into smoke and air . in matters of truth and religion , reason and evidence ought to sway men , and not passion and noise ; and though men cannot command their judgements , they may and ought to do their expressions . and although this looks as like an apologie for a dull book as may be , yet i had much rather it should suffer for want of wit and smartness , than of good nature and christianity . my design is to represent the matters in difference between us truly , to report faithfully , and to argue closely ; and by these to shew , that no person can have any pretence of reason to leave our church , to embrace the communion of the church of rome ; because the danger is so much greater there in the nature of their worship and tendency of their doctrine ; and what they object most against us in point of fanaticism and divisions , will equally hold against them ; so that they have no advantages above us , but have many apparent dangers which we have not . among the chiefest dangers in the communion of that church , i have insisted on that of idolatry ; not to make the breach wider than some others have done , but to let persons first understand the greatness of the danger before they run into it . i wish i could acquit them from so heavy a charge , but i cannot force my judgement : and while i think them guilty , it would be unfaithfulness in me , not to warn those of it , whom it most concerns to understand it . and where other things are subtle and nice , tedious and obscure , this lyes plain to the conscience of every man ; if the church of rome be guilty of idolatry , our separation can be no schism either before god or man , because our communion would be a sin . and although it may be only an excess of charity in some few learned persons , to excuse that church from idolatry , ( although not all who live in the communion of it : ) yet upon the greatest search i can make , i think there is more of charity than judgement in so doing . for the proof of it , i must refer the reader to the following discourse , but that i may not be thought in so severe a censure , to contradict the sense of our church , ( which i have so great a regard to ) i shall here shew , that this charge of idolatry hath been managed against the church of rome , by the greatest and most learned defenders of it ever since the reformation . what greater discovery can be made of the sense of our church , than by the book of homilies not barely allowed , but subscribed to , as containing godly and wholsom doctrine , and necessary for these times ? and nothing can be more plainly delivered therein , than that the church of rome is condemned for idolatry . so the third part of the sermon against the peril of idolatry concludes , ye have heard it evidently proved in these homilies against idolatry by gods word , the doctors of the church , ecclesiastical histories , reason and experience , that images have been and be worshipped , and so idolatry committed to them to the great offence of gods majesty , and danger of infinite souls , &c. who the author of these homilies was , is not material to enquire , since their authority depends not on the writer , but the churches approbation of them ; but dr. jackson not only calls him the worthy and learned author of the homilies concerning the peril of idolatry , but saith , he takes him to be a reverend bishop of our church : and no wonder , since the most eminent bishops in that time of queen elizabeth , ( wherein these homilies were added to the former ) did all assert and maintain the same thing . as bishop jewell in his excellent defence of the apology of the church of england , and answer to harding , wherein he proves , that to give the honour of god to a creature , is manifest idolatry , as the papists do , saith he , in adoration of the host , and the worship of images : and his works ought to be looked on with a higher esteem than any other private person being commanded to be placed in churches to be read by the people . of all persons of that age none could be less suspected to be puritanically inclined , than archbishop whitgift ; yet in his learned defence of the church of england against t. c. he makes good the same charge in these words ; i do as much mislike the distinction of the papists , and the intent of it as any man doth , neither do i go about to excuse them from wicked , and without repentance and gods singular mercy , damnable idolatry . there are saith he , three kinds of idolatry , one is , when the true god is worshipped by other means and wayes , than he hath prescribed , or would be worshipped , i. e. against his express command , which is certainly his meaning : the other is , when the true god is worshipped with false gods : the third is , when we worship false gods either in heart , mind , or in external creatures living or dead , and altogether forget the worship of the true god. all these three kinds are detestable , but the first is the least and the last is the worst . the papists worship god otherwise than his will is , and otherwise than he hath prescribed , almost in all points of their worship , they also give to the creature , that which is due to the creator , and sin against the first table ; yet are they not for all that i can see or learn in the third kind of idolatry , and therefore if they repent unfeignedly , they are not to be cast either out of the church , or out of the ministry . the papists have little cause to thank me , or fee me , for any thing i have spoken in their behalf as yet , you see that i place them among wicked and damnable idolaters . thus far that wise and learned bishop . after him we may justly reckon bishop bilson , than whom none did more learnedly in that time defend the perpetual government of christs church by bishops , ( nor it may be since : ) who in a set discourse , at large proves the church of rome guilty of idolatry . . in the worship of images ; the having of which , he saith , was never catholick , and the worshipping of them was ever wicked by the judgement of christs church : and that , the worship even of the image of christs is heathenism & idolatry ; & to worship it makes it an idol , and burning incense to it is idolatry : which he there proves at large , and that the image of god made with hands , is a false god , and no likeness of his , but a leud imagination of theirs , set up to feed their eyes with the contempt of his sacred will , dishonour of his holy name , and open injury to his divine nature . . in the adoration of the host , of which he treats at large . after these it will be less needful to produce the testimonies of dr. fulk , dr. reynolds , dr. whitaker , who all asserted and proved the church of rome , guilty of idolatry : and i cannot find one person , who owned himself to be of the church of england in all queen elizabeths reign , who did make any doubt of it . let us now come to the reign of king james ; and here in the first place we ought to set down the judgement of that learned prince himself , who so throughly understood the matters in controversie between us and the church of rome , as appears by his premonition to all christian princes , wherein after speaking of other points , he comes to that of reliques of saints : but for the worshipping either of them or images , i must saith he , account it damnable idolatry , and after adds , that the scriptures are so directly , vehemently , and punctually against it , as i wonder what brain of man , or suggestion of satan durst offer it to christians : and all must be salved with nice and philosophical distinctions — let them therefore that maintain this doctrine , answer it to christ at the latter day , when he shall accuse them of idolatry : and then i doubt if he will be paid with such nice sophistical distinctions . and when isaac casaubon was employed by him to deliver his opinion to cardinal perron , mentioning the practices of the church of rome in invocation of saints , he saith , that the church of england did affirm , that those practices were joyned with great impiety . bishop andrews , whom no man suspects of want of learning , or not understanding the doctrine of our church , was also employed to answer cardinal bellarmin who had writ against the king : and doth he decline charging the church of rome with idolatry ? no , so far from it , that he not only in plain terms charges them with it , but saith , that bellarmin runs into heresie , nay , into madness to defend it : and in his answer to perron he saith , it is most evident , by their breviaries , hours , and rosaries , that they pray directly , absolutely and finally to saints ; and not meerly to the saints , to pray to god for them , but to give what they pray for themselves . in the same time of king james , bishop abbot writ his answer to bishop ; in which he saith , that the church of rome by the worship of images , hath matched all the idolatries of the heathens , and brought all their jugling devices into the church , abusing the ignorance and simplicity of the people as grosly and damnably as ever they did . towards the latter end of his reign came forth bishop whites reply to fisher , he calls the worshipping of images , a superstitious dotage , a palliate idolatry , a remainder of paganism , condemned by sacred scripture , censured by primitive fathers , and a seminary of direful contention and mischief in the church of christ. dr. field chargeth the invocation of saints with such superstition and idolatry as cannot be excused . we charge the adherents of the church of rome with gross idolatry , ( saith bishop usher in his sermon preached before the commons a. d. . ) because that contrary to gods express commandment they are sound to be worshippers of images . neither will it avail them here to say , that the idolatry forbidden in the scripture is that only which was used by the jews and pagans : for as well might one plead , that jewish or heathenish fornication was here only reprehended as jewish or heathenish idolatry . but as the one is a foul sin , whether it be committed by jew , pagan or christian : so if such as profess the name of christ shall practise that which the word of god condemneth in jews or pagans ; for idolatry , their profession is so far from diminishing , that it augmenteth rather the hainousness of the crime . about the same time came forth bishop downams book of antichrist , wherein he doth at large prove , that to give divine honour to a creature , is idolatry ; and that the papists do give it in the worship of saints , the host and images : which is likewise done nearer our own times by bishop davenant and dr. jackson . i shall conclude all , ( although i might produce more ) with the testimony of archbishop laud , who in his conference , saith the ancient church knew not the adoration of images ; and the modern church of rome is too like to paganism in the practice of it , and driven to scarce intelligible subtleties in her servants writings that defend it ; & this without any care had of millions of souls , unable to understand her subtleties or shun her practice : and in his marginal notes upon bellarmin ( written with his own hand , now in my possession ) where bellarmin answers the testimony of the council of laodicea against the worship of angels , by saying , that it doth not condemn all worship of images , but only that which is proper to god ; he replyes , that theodoret who produced that testimony of the council , expresly mentions the praying to angels ; therefore , saith he , the praying to them was that idolatry which the council condemns . by this we see , that the most eminent and learned defenders of our church , of greatest authority in it , and zeal for the cause of it against enemies of all sorts , have agreed in the charge of idolatry against the church of rome . and i cannot see why the authority of some very few persons , though of great learning should bear sway against the constant opinion of our church ever since the reformation . since our church is not now to be formed according to the singular fancies of some few ( though learned men ; ) much less to be modelled by the caprichio's of superstitious fanaticks , who prefer some odd opinions and wayes of their own , before the received doctrine and practice of the church they live in . such as these we rather pity their weakness , than regard their censures , and are only sorry when our adversaries make such properties of them , as by their means to beget in some a disaffection to our church . which i am so far from , ( whatever malice and peevishness may suggest to the contrary ) that upon the greatest enquiry i can make , i esteem it the best church of the christian world ; and think my time very well imployed ( what ever thanks i meet with for it ) in defending its cause , and preserving persons in the communion of it . the contents . chap. i. of the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in the worship of images . the introduction , concerning the occasion of the debate . the church of rome makes its members guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry : first , of the worship of god by images : some propositions for clearing the notion of divine worship . it is in gods power to determine the way of his worship , which being determined , gods law , and not our intention , is to be the rule of worship . the main question is , whether god hath forbidden the worshipping of himself by an image , under the notion of idolatry ? of the meaning of the second commandment , from the terms therein used , the large sense and importance of them , which cannot be understood only of heathen idols . of the reason of that law , from gods infinite and invisible nature : how far that hath been acknowledged by heathens ? the law against image worship no ceremonial law respecting meerly the iews ; the reason against it made more clear by the gospel : the wiser heathen did not worship their images as gods , yet their worship condemned as idolatry . the christian church believed the reason of this law to be immutable ; of the doctrine of the second council of nice ; the opposition to it in greece , germany , france and england . of the scripture instances of idolatry contrary to the second commandment , in the golden calf , and the calves of dan and bethel . of the distinctions used to excuse image-worship from being idolatry : the vanity and folly of them . the instances supposed to be parallell answered . p. chap. ii. of their idolatry in adoration of the host and invocation of saints . the argument proposed concerning the adoration of the host ; the insufficiency of the answer to it manifested : supposing equal revelation for transubstantiation as for christs divinity , yet not the same reason for worshipping the host as the person of christ ; the great disparity between these two at large discovered ; the controversie truly stated concerning adoration of the host : and it is proved , that no man on the principles of the roman church can be secure he doth not commit idolatry in it . the confession of our adversaries , that the same principles will justifie the worship of any creature . no such motives to believe transubstantiation as the divinity of christ. bishop taylor 's testimony answered by himself . to worship christ in the sun as lawful as to worship him in the host. the grossest idolatry excusable on the same grounds . the argument proposed and vindicated concerning the invocation of saints practised in the church of rome . the fathers arguments against the heathens hold against invocation of saints ; the state of the controversie about idolatry as managed by them . they make it wholly unlawful to give divine worship to any creature how excellent soever . the worship not only of heathen gods , but of angels condemned . the common evasions answered . prayer more proper to god than sacrifice . no such disparity as is pretended between the manner of invocating saints and the heathens invocating their deities . in the church of rome , they do more than pray to saints to pray for them , proved from the present most authentick breviaries . supposing that were all , it would not excuse them . st. austin no friend to invocation of saints . practices condemned by the church pleaded for it . of negative points being articles of faith . p. . chap. iii. of the hindrance of a good life and devotion in the roman church . the doctrines of the roman church prejudicial to piety . the sacrament of pennance , as taught among them , destroyes the necessity of a good life . the doctrine of purgatory takes away the care of it , as appears by the true stating it , and comparing that doctrine with protestants . how easie it is , according to them , for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven . purgatory dreadful to none but poor and friendless . sincerity of devotion hindred by prayers in an unknown tongue . the great absurdity of it manifested . the effects of our ancestors devotion had been as great , if they had said their prayers in english. the language of prayer proved to be no indifferent thing , from st. pauls arguments . no universal consent for prayers in an unknown tongue , by the confession of their own writers . of their doctrine of the efficacy of sacraments , that it takes away all necessity of devotion in the minds of the receivers . this complained of by cassander and arnaud , but proved against them to be the doctrine of the roman church , by the canons of the council of trent . the great easiness of getting grace by their sacraments . of their discouraging the reading the scriptures . a standing rule of devotion necessary . none so fit to give it , as god himself : this done by him in the scriptures . all persons therefore concerned to read them . the arguments against reading the scriptures , would have held against the publishing them in a language known to the pe●ple . the dangers as great then , as ever have been since . the greatest prudence of the roman church is wholly to forbid the scriptures ; being acknowledged by their wisest men , to be so contrary to their interest . the confession of the cardinals at bononia to that purpose . the avowed practice of the roman church herein directly contrary to that of the primitive : although the reasons were as great then from the danger of heresies . this confessed by their own writers . p. chap. iv. of the fanaticism of the roman church . the unreasonableness of objecting sects and fanaticisms to us as the effects of reading the scriptures . fanaticism countenanced in the roman church , but condemned by ours . private revelations made among them the grounds of believing some points of doctrine , proved from their own authors . of the revelations pleaded for the immaculate conception . the revelations of s. brigitt and s. catharin directly contrary in this point , yet both owned in the church of rome . the large approbations of s. brigitts by popes and councils ; and both their revelations acknowledged to be divine in the lessons read upon their dayes . s. catharines wonderful faculty of smelling souls , a gift peculiar to her and philip nerius . the vain attempts of reconciling those revelations . the great number of female revelations approved in the roman church . purgatory , transubstantiation , auricular confession proved by visions and revelations . festivals appointed upon the credit of revelations : the feast of corpus christi on the revelation made to juliana , the story of it related from their own writers : no such things can be objected to our church . revelations still owned by them ; proved from the fanatick revelations of mother juliana very lately published by mr. cressy : some instances of the blasphemous nonsense contained in them . the monastick orders founded in enthusiasm . an account of the great fanaticism of s. benedict , and s. romoaldus : their hatred of humane learning , and strange visions and revelations . the carthusian order founded upon a vision . the carmalites vision of their habit . the franciscan and dominican orders founded on fanaticism , and seen in a vision of innocent the third to be the great supporters of the roman church . the quakerism of s. francis described from their best authors . his ignorance , extasies and fanatick preaching . the vision of dominicus . the blasphemous enthusiasm of the mendicant fryers . the history of it related at large . of the evangelium aeternum , and the blasphemies contained in it . the author of it supposed to be the general of the franciscan order , however owned by the fryers , and read and preached at paris . the opposition to it by the vniversity : but favoured by the popes . gul. s. amour writing against it , his book publickly burnt , by order of the court of rome . the popes horrible partiality to the fryers . the fanaticism of the franciscans afterwards of the followers of petrus johannis de oliva . the spiritual state began ( say they ) from s. francis. the story of his wounds , and maria visitationis paralleld . the canting language used by the spiritual brethren , called beguini , fraticelli , and bigardi . of their doctrines about poverty , swearing , perfection , the carnal church and inspiration : by all which , they appear to be a sect of quakers after the order of s. francis. of the schism made by them . the large spreading and long continuance of them . of the apostolici and dulcinistae . of their numerous conventicles . their high opinion of themselves . their zeal against the clergy and tythes ; their doctrine of christian liberty . of the alumbrado's in spain : their disobedience to bishops , obstinate adhering to their own fancies , calling them inspirations , their being above ordinances . ignatius loyola suspected to be one of the illuminati , proved from melchior canus . the iesuites order founded in fanaticism ; a particular account of the romantick enthusiasm of ignatius , from the writers of his own order . whereby it is proved , that he was the greatest pretender to enthusiasm , since the dayes of mahomet and s. francis. ignatius gave no respect to men by words or putting off his hat , his great ignorance and preaching in the streets : his glorying in his sufferings for it ; his pretence to mortification : the wayes he used to get disciples . their way of resolution of difficulties by seeking god ; their itinerant preaching in the cities of italy . the sect of quakers a new order of disciples of ignatius , only wanting confirmation from the pope , which ignatius obtained . of the fanatick way of devotion in the roman church . of superstitious and enthusiastical fanaticism among them . of their mystical divinity . mr. cressy's canting in his preface to sancta sophia . of the deiform fund of the soul ; a superessential life , and the way to it . of contemplating with the will. of passive vnions . the method of self-annihilation . of the vnion of nothing with nothing . of the feeling of not-being . the mischief of an unintelligible way of devotion . the utmost effect of this way is gross enthusiasm . mr. cressy's vindication of it examined . the last sort of fanaticism among them , resisting authority under pretence of religion . their principles and practices compared with the fanaticks . how far they are disowned at present by them . of the vindication of the irish remonstrance . the court of rome hath alwayes favoured that party , which is most destructive to civil government , proved by particular and late instances . p. chap. v. of the divisions of the roman church . the great pretence of vnity in the church of rome considered . the popes authority the fountain of that vnity ; what that authority is which is challenged by the popes over the christian world ; the disturbances which have happened therein on the account of it . the first revolt of rome from the empire caused by the popes , baronius his arguments answered . rebellion the foundation of the greatness of that church . the cause of the strict league between the popes and the posterity of charles martel . the disturbances made by popes in the new empire : of the quarrels of greg. . with the empeperour and other christian princes , upon the pretence of the popes authority . more disturbances on that account in christendome , than any other matter of religion . of the schisms which have happened in the roman church : particularly those after the time of formosus , wherein his ordinations were nulled by his successors , the popes opposition to each other in that age : the miserable state of that church then described . of the schisms of latter times , by the italick and gallick factions , the long continuance of them . the mischief of those schisms on their own principles . of the divisions in that church about the matters of order and government . the differences between the bishops and the monastick orders about exemptions and priviledges ; the history of that controversie , and the bad success the popes had in attempting to compose it . of the quarrel between the regulars and seculars in england . the continuance of that controversie here and in france . the jesuits enmity to the episcopal order and jurisdiction : the hard case of the bishop of angelopolis in america . the popes still favour the regulars , as much as they dare . the jesuits way of converting the chinese discovered by that bishop . of the differences in matters of doctrine in that church . they have no better way to compose them than we . the popes authority never truly ended one controversie among them . their wayes to evade the decisions of popes and councils . their dissensions are about matters of faith . the wayes taken to excuse their own difference will make none between them and us , manifested by sancta clara's exposition o● the . articles . their disputes not confined to their schools , proved , by a particular instance about the immaculate conception ; the infinite scandals , confessed by thei● own authors , to have been in their church about it . from all which it appears that the church of rome can have no advantage in point of vnity above ours . p. chap. vi. an answer to the remainder of the reply . the mis-interpreting scripture doth not hinder its being a rule of faith . of the superstitious observations of the roman church . of indulgences ; the practice of them in what time begun , on what occasion , and in what terms granted . of the indulgences in iubilees , in the churches at rome , and upon saying some prayers . instances of them produced . what opinion hath been had of indulgences in the church of rome : some confess they have no foundation in scripture , or antiquity , others that they are pious frauds : the miserable shifts the defenders of indulgences were put to : plain evidences of their fraud from the disputes of the schools about them . the treasure of the church invented by aquinas and on what occasion . the wickedness of men increased by indulgences acknowledged by their own writers : and therefore condemned by many of that church . of bellarmins prudent christians opinion of them . indulgences no meer relaxations of canonical penance . the great absurdity of the doctrine of the churches treasure on which indulgences are founded , at large manifested . the tendency of them to destroy devotion proved by experience , and the nature of the doctrine . of communion in one kind ; no devotion in opposing an institution of christ. of the popes power of dispensing contrary to the law of god in oaths and marriages . the ill consequence of asserting marriage in a priest to be worse than fornication , as it is in the church of rome . of the uncertainty of faith therein . how far revelation to be believed against sense . the arguments to prove the uncertainty of their faith defended . the case of a revolter and a bred papist compared as to salvation : and the greater danger of one than the other proved . the motives of the roman church considered ; those laid down by bishop taylor fully answered by himself . an account of the faith of protestants laid down in the way of principles : wherein the grounds and nature of our certainty of faith are cleared . and from the whole concluded , that there can be no reasonable cause to forsake the communion of the church of england and to embrace that of the church of rome . p. errata . pag. . l. . for adjuverit , r. adjuvet : p. ibid. marg. r. l. . de baptis . p. . marg. r. tract . . in ioh. p. . l. . dele only : p. . marg. r. trigaut . p. . l. . for i am , r. am i : p. . l. . for is , r. in : p. . marg. for . r. . . p. . l. . after did , put not : ch. . for pennance , r. penance : p. . l. . for him , r. them : p. . l. . for or , r. and : l. . for never , r. ever : p. . l. . for their , r. the : p. . l. . for these , r. their : p. . marg. for nibaldi , r. sinibaldi : p. . l. . before another , insert one : p. . l. . after not , insert at : p. . marg. for act , r. art . p. . l. . after for , insert one . two questions proposed by one of the church of rome . whether a protestant haveing the same motives to become a catholick , which one bred and born , and well grounded in the catholick religion , hath to remain in it , may not equally be saved in the profession of it ? . whether it be sufficient to be a christian in the abstract , or in the whole latitude , or there be a necessity of being a member of some distinct church , or congregation of christians ? answer . the first question being supposed to be put concerning a protestant yet continuing so , doth imply a contradiction , viz. that a protestant continuing so , should have the same motives to become a catholick ( takeing that term here , only as signifying , one of the communion of the church of rome ) which those have , who have been born or bred in that communion . but supposing the meaning of the question to be this , whether a protestant leaving the communion of our church , upon the motives used by those of the roman church , may not be equally saved with those who are bred in it ? i answer , . that an equal capacity of salvation of those persons being supposed , can be no argument to leave the communion of a church wherein salvation of a person may be much more safe , than of either of them . no more , than it is , for a man to leap from the plain ground into a ship , that is in danger of being wrackt , because he may equally hope to be saved with those who are in it . nay , supposing an equal capacity of salvation in two several churches , there can be no reason to forsake the communion of the one for the other . so that to perswade any one to leave our church to embrace that of rome , it is by no means sufficient to ask whether such a one may not as well be saved as they that are in it already : but it is necessary , that they prove , that it is of necessity to salvation to leave our church , and become a member of theirs : and when they do this , i intend to be one of their number . . we assert , that all those who are in the communion of the church of rome do run so great a hazard of their salvation , that none who have a care of their souls , ought to embrace it , or continue in it . and that upon these grounds . . because they must by the terms of communion with that church , be guilty either of hypocrisie or idolatry , either of which are sins inconsistent with salvation ; which i thus prove . that church which requires the giving the creature the worship due only to the creator , makes the members of it guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry ; for it they do it , they are guilty of the latter , if they do it not , of the former ; but the church of rome in the worship of god by images , the adoration of the bread in the eucharist , and the formal invocation of saints , doth require the giving to the creature the worship due only to the creator ; therefore it makes the members of it guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry . that the church of rome in these particulars doth require the giving the creature the honour due only to god ; i prove thus concerning each of them . . where the worship of god is terminated upon a creature there , by their own confession , the worship due only to god is given to the creature ; but in the worship of god by images , the worship due to god is terminated wholly on the creature ; which is thus proved ; the worship which god himself denyes to receive , must be terminated on the creature : but god himself in the second commandment not only denyes to receive it , but threatens severely to punish them that give it . therefore it cannot be terminated on god , but only on the image . . the same argument which would make the grossest heathen idolatry lawful , cannot excuse any act from idolatry , but the same argument , whereby the papists make the worship of the bread in the eucharist not to be idolatry , would make the grossest heathen idolatry not to be so . for if it be not therefore idolatry ; because they suppose the bread to be god , then the worship of the sun was not idolatry by them who supposed the sun to be god ; and upon this ground , the grosser the idolatry was , the less it was idolatry : for the grossest idolaters were those , who supposed their statues to be gods. and upon this ground their worship was more lawful , than of those who supposed them not to be so . . if the supposition of a middle excellency between god and us , be a sufficient ground for formal invocation , then the heathen worship of their inferiour deities could be no idolatry : for the heathens still pretended , that they did not give to them the worship proper to the supream god ; which is as much as is pretended by the devoutest papist , in justification of the invocation of saints . to these i expect a direct and punctual answer , professing as much charity towards them , as is consistent with scripture and reason . . because the church of rome is guilty of so great corruption of the christian religion by such opinions and practices which are very apt to hinder a good life : such are , the destroying the necessity of a good life , by making the sacrament of penance joyned with contrition , sufficient for salvation ; the taking off the care of it , by supposing an expiation of sin ( by the prayers of the living ) after death ; and the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed in it , by prayers in a language which many understand not , by making the efficacy of sacraments depend upon the bare administration , whether our minds be prepared for them or not ; by discouraging the reading the scripture , which is our most certain rule of faith and life , by the multitude of superstitious observations never used in the primitive church , as we are ready to defend ; by the gross abuse of people in pardons and indulgences , by denying the cup to the laity , contrary to the practice of the church in the solemn celebration of the eucharist for a thousand years after christ ; by making it in the power of any person to dispense contrary to the law of god , in oathes and marriages ; by making disobedience to the church in disputable matters , more hainous , than disobedience to the laws of christ in unquestionable things , as marriage in a priest , to be a greater crime , than fornication . by all which practices and opinions we assert , that there are so many hinderances to a good life , that none who have a care of their salvation , can venture their souls , in the communion of such a church , which either enjoyns or publickly allows them . . because it exposeth the faith of christians to so great uncertainty : by making the authority of the scriptures to depend on the infallibility of the church , when the churches infallibility must be proved by the scripture : by making those things necessary to be believed , which if they be believed overthrow all foundations of faith , viz. that we are not to believe our senses in the plainest objects of them , as that bread which we see is not bread ; upon which it follows , that tradition being a continued kind of sensation , can be no more certain , than sense it self ; and that the apostles might have been deceived in the body of christ after the resurrection ; and the church of any age in what they saw or heard . by denying to men the use of their judgement and reason as to the matters of faith proposed by a church , when they must use it in the choice of a church ; by making the churches power extend to make new articles of faith , viz. by making those things necessary to be believed , which were not so before . by pretending to infallibility in determining controversies , and yet not determining controversies which are on foot among themselves . all which , and several other things which my designed brevity will not permit me to mention ; tend very much to shake the faith of such , who have nothing else to rely on , but the authority of the church of rome . . i answer , that a protestant leaving the communion of our church , doth incurr a greater guilt , than one who was bred up in the communion of the church of rome , and continues therein by invincible ignorance , and therefore cannot equally be saved with such a one . for a protestant is supposed , to have sufficient convictions of the errors of the roman church , or is guilty of wilful ignorance , if he hath not ; but although we know not what allowances god will make for invincible ignorance , we are sure that wilful ignorance , or choosing a worse church before a better , is a damnable sin , and unrepented of destroyes salvation . to the second question i answer , . i do not understand what is meant by a christian in the abstract , or in the whole latitude , it being a thing i never heard or read of before ; and therefore may have some meaning in it , which i cannot understand . . but if the question be as the last words imply it , whether a christian by vertue of his being so , be bound to joyn in some church or congregation of christians ? i answer affirmatively , and that he is bound to choose the communion of the purest church , and not to leave that for a corrupt one , though called never so catholick . the proposer of the questions reply to the answer . madam , i did not expect that two bare questions could have produced such a super-foetation of controversies , as the paper you sent me is fraught with ; but since the answerer hath been pleased to take this method , ( for what end himself best knows ) i shall not refuse to give a fair and plain return , to the several points he insists upon , and that with as much brevity as the matter and circumstances will bear . the questions proposed were : . whether a protestant having the same motives to become a catholick , which one bred and born , and well grounded in catholick religion hath to remain in it , may not equally be saved in the profession of it ? the . whether it be sufficient to be a christian in the abstract , or in the whole latitude ; or there be a necessity of being a member of some distinct church or congregation of christians ? the first he saith , being supposed to be put concerning a protestant continuing so , implyes a contradiction ; but where it lyes i cannot see , for a protestant may have the same motives , and yet out of wilfulness or passion not acquiesce to them . he saw no doubt this supposition to be impertinent to the question , and therefore in the second part of the . § . states it thus : whether a protestant leaving the communion of the protestant church , upon the motives used by those of the roman church , may not be equally saved with those who were bred in it . the question thus stated in its true supposition , he answers first , § . . that an equal capacity of salvation of those persons being supposed , can be no argument to leave the communion of a church , wherein the salvation of a person may be much more safe than either of them . but before i reply , i must do both him and my self right in matter of fact ; and it is , madam , that when you first addressed to me , you professed your self much troubled , that he had told you , a person leaving the protestant communion , and embracing the catholick , could not be saved . that we should deny salvation to any out of the catholick church , you lookt upon as uncharitable , and this assertion of his had startled you in the opinion you had before of the protestant charity . whereupon you desired to know my opinion in the case , and i told you i saw no reason , why the same motives which secured one born and bred , and well grounded in catholick religion , to continue in it , were not sufficient also to secure a protestant , who convinced by them , should embrace it . this madam , your self can witness , was the true occasion of your proposing the question , and not as the answerer supposes , that i used the meer question it self as a sufficient argument to perswade you to embrace the catholick communion . this premised , i reply , that the answer he gives , is altogether forrain to the matter in hand , the controversie not being between a bred and a converted catholick on the one side , and a person supposed to be in a safer church than either of them on the other : nor yet between two several churches supposed to have in them an equal capacity of salvation , but between a person bred in the catholick religion on the one side , and another converted to it from protestantism on the other , whether the latter may not be equally saved with the former ? nor is it to the purpose of the present question , to prove that it is of necessity to salvation to leave the protestant church , and become a member of the catholick , because the question is only of the possibility , not of the necessity of salvation . i say it is not necessary to the present question to prove this , but rather belongs to the second , where i shall speak to it . whether there be a necessity of being a member of some distinct church ? which being resolved affirmatively by both parts , it follows then in order to enquire which this true church is . as for the example of a man leaping from the plain , ground into a ship that is in danger of being wrackt , meaning by that ship ( as i suppose he does ) the catholick church . some will be apt to think he had come nearer the mark if he had compared the protestant to a ship , which by often knocking against the rock on which the catholick church is built , had split it self into innumerable sects , and was now in danger of sinking : his comparison was grounded only on his own supposition , but this is grounded on the truth it self of too sad an experience . but to leave words , and come to the matter . his second answer is , § . . that all those who are in the communion of the church of rome do run so great a hazard of their salvation , that none who have a care of their souls ought to embrace or continue in it . the first answer as i have shewed , was nothing pertinent to the present question , nor comes this second any nearer the matter , for though it be supposed , that none ought to embrace or continue in the catholick church by reason of the great hazard , he saith , they run of their salvation , yet if they do embrace or continue in it , why may they not be equally saved , that is , with equal capacity ; but this assertion , however beside the question , he makes it his main business to prove , first , § . . because those who embrace or continue in the catholick church are guilty either of hypocrisie or idolatry , either of which are sins inconsistent with salvation . and here he must give me leave to return upon him a more palpable contradiction , than that he supposed to have found in the question , viz. to assert only , that those of the catholick communion run a great hazard of their salvation , and yet affirm at the same time that they are guilty either of hypocrisie or idolatry , sins inconsistent with salvation : which reduced into plain terms , is no other but that they may be saved , though hardly , and yet cannot be saved . but to the argument , the church of rome , by the worship of god by images , by the adoration of bread in the eucharist , and the formal invocation of saints , doth require the giving to the creature the worship due only to the creator ; therefore it makes the members of it guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry . the charge is great , but what are the proofs ? concerning the first he saith , § . . that in the worship of god by images , the worship due to god is terminated wholly on the creature . and surely this implies another contradiction , that it should be the worship of god by images , and yet be terminated wholly on the creature ; nevertheless he proves it thus ; the worship which god himself denyes to receive , must be terminated upon the creature ; but god himself in the second commandment , not only denyes to receive it , but threatens severely to punish them that give it , that is , that worship him by an image . therefore it cannot be terminated on god , but only on the image . to this argument , which to be just to the author , i confess i have not seen any where proposed in these terms , i answer , the first proposition is built on a great mistake of the nature of humane acts , which though they ought to be governed by the law of god , yet when they swerve from it , cease not to tend to their own proper objects . gods prohibition of such or such a kind of worship , may make it to be unlawful , but hinders not the act from tending , whither it is intended ; and consequently if it be intended or directed by the understanding to god , though after an unlawful manner , it will not fail to be terminated upon god : thus when a thief or a murderer prayes to god to give him good success in the theft or murder he intends , though god denyes to hear any such prayer , yet is the prayer truly directed to him : and thus when the iews offered to god in sacrifice the blind and the lame , though he had forbidden it , yet was the oblation terminated on him , and therefore he reproves them for having polluted him , mal. . . and to convince them the more of their evil doings : offer it now , sayes he , to thy governour , will he be pleased with thee , or accept thy person ? though the governour deny to accept what is presented to him , yet it is truly offered to him by the presenter ; and so , although god deny to accept such or such sacrifice , yet it is truly offered to him , though the offering of it after a forbidden manner make it to be sin : did not god refuse to accept the sacrifice of cain , and yet the scripture , gen. . . sayes expresly , that he brought an offering to the lord ? god had not respect to cain nor his offering , but this did not hinder , but that cains offering had respect to god , and was terminated on him . in like manner , though god deny such or such a kind of worship ; if it be offered though unlawfully by the creature , yet is it terminated on him . the proposition therefore which asserts , that the worship which god denyes must be terminated on the creature , i deny as absolutely false , and so will you too , madam , when you shall see the sense of it to be no other , but that a wicked man cannot pray to god , or worship him in an unlawful or forbidden manner , who is therefore a wicked man because he does so . what follows from hence is , that though god should have forbidden men to worship him by images , yet it does not follow but the worship so given , would be terminated on him . but now to speak to his second proposition in which the main force of this argument consists . we utterly deny that god in the second commandment , forbids himself to be worshipped by a crucifix , for example , or such like sacred image ; for such only are the subject of the present controversie . what he forbids there , is to give his worship to idols : and this is clear from the circumstances of the text : first , because this commandment , if st. austins iudgement be to be followed , is but a part or explication of the first , thou shalt have no other gods before me : secondly , because the hebrew word pesel , in latine sculptile , is used in scripture to signifie an idol : let them be confounded who adore sculptilia , that is , idols , saith the psalmist , and so the septuagint translate it in this very place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an idol , thou shalt not make to thy self an idol ; so that it was an artifice of the protestants to make their assertion seem plausible , to translate image instead of idol ; and not a certain kind of image neither , but any whatsoever . thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image . now what is all this to catholicks , who neither make to themselves , nor adore idols , nor yield soveraign honour or acknowledgement of deity to any but god ? we give indeed a veneration to images , but the image of god is not another god besides him , nor is the worship of it the worship of another god , but of him who is represented by it : for st. basil saith , the worship of an image stayes not there , but is referred or carried to the prototype , or thing represented . we give therefore an inferior , or relative honour only to the sacred images of christ , and his blessed mother , and saints , not latriam , the worship due to god , but honorariam adorationem , a certain honorary worship , expressed by kissing them , or putting off our hats , or kneeling before them , much like the worship given to the chair of state , or the kings picture , or his garment by the like actions ; or to come nearer to the subject , such as was commanded to be given by moses and joshua to the ground whereon they stood , by putting off their shoos , because it was holy ; and by the iews , in adoring the footstool of god , or falling down before it , psal. . . and in worshipping ( as st. jerome testifies they did ) that part of the temple called the holy of holies , because there were the cherubims ( sacred images ordered by god himself to be placed there ) the propitiatory ( representing gods throne ) and the ark , ( his footstool ) in a word , such as the protestants themselves give to the name of iesus when they hear it spoken , by putting off their hats , and bowing at it , or to the elements of bread and wine in the supper , by kneeling before them , as figures representing the death of christ. if condescendence to the conscience of weaker brethren , will permit to own they have any honour or veneration for them , or for the altar before which they how . to conclude this point , the objector brings a text , which forbids us to give the soveraign honour due to god , to an idol : but let us hear out of scripture an express text that it is not lawful to give to holy images , and other things relating to god , an inferiour or relative worship , such as we have declared , and that will be to the purpose . § . he aims to conclude the catholick church guilty of idolatry , from the adoration of the bread ( as he believes it ) in the eucharist . now to do this , he ought to prove , that what we adore in the eucharist , is bread indeed . but instead of that , he brings a comparison between our adoration of christ in the eucharist , and the heathens adoration of the sun : viz. that the papists by the same argument , make the worship of the bread in the eucharist not to be idolatry , which would excuse the heathens worship of the sun and of their statues from idolatry ; for if it be not therefore idolatry , sayes he , because they suppose the bread to be god , then the worship of the sun was not idolatry in them , who supposed the sun to be god. i shall not complain here of the unhandsomness of the expression , that catholicks suppose the bread to be god , just as the heathens supposed the sun to be god : whereas he knows , that catholicks believe , that the substance of the bread is changed into christs body ; but shall answer to the argument , that the worship of christ in the eucharist , is not idolatry , because we only suppose him to be really present under the form of bread , but because we know and believe this upon the same grounds and motives upon which we believe ( and those motives stronger than any protestant hath ( if he have no other than the catholick to believe ) that christ is god , and consequently to be adored . and therefore that you may the better see the inefficaciousness of the argument , suppose it dropt from the pen of an arrian against the adoration of christ as god , and it will be of as much force to evince that to be idolatry , as it is from the objection to prove the adoration of him in the eucharist to be so , see there how an arrian might argue in the same form . the same argument which would make the grossest heathen idolatry lawful , cannot excuse any act from idolatry : but the same argument , whereby the protestants make the worship of christ ( a pure man , sayes the arrian ) not to be idolatry : would make the grossest heathen idolatry not to be so : for if it be not therefore idolatry , because they suppose christ to be god , then the worship of the sun was not idolatry , by them who supposed the sun to be god , &c. now the same answer which solves the arrians argument against the adoration of christ as god , serves no less to solve the objectors argument against the adoration of him in the eucharist , since we have a like divine revelation for his real presence under the sacramental signs , as we have for his being true god and man. but what if catholicks should be mistaken in their belief ? would it then follow , that they were idolaters ? dr. taylor an eminent and leading man amongst the protestants , denyes the consequence . his words are these , in the liberty of prophecying , sect. . numb . . idolatry , sayes he , is a forsaking the true god , and giving divine worship to a creature , or to an idol , that is , to an imaginary god , who hath no foundation in essence or existence : and this is that kind of superstition , which by divines is called the superstition of an undue object : now it is evident , that the object of their ( that is , the catholicks ) adoration ( that which is represented to them in their minds , their thoughts and purposes , and by which god principally , if not solely , takes estimate of humane actions ) in the blessed sacrament , is the only true and eternal god , hypostatically joyned with his holy humanity , which humanity they believe actually present under the veil of the sacramental signs ; and if they thought him not present , they are so far from worshipping the bread in this case , that themselves profess it idolatry to do so ; which is a demonstration ( mark that ) that their soul hath nothing in it , that is idolatrical . if their confidence and fanciful opinion ( so he terms the faith of catholicks ) hath engaged them upon so great a mistake ( as without doubt , he sayes it hath ) yet the will hath nothing in it , but what is a great enemy to idolatry . et nihil ardet in inferno nisi propria voluntas ; that is , nothing burns in hell , but proper will. thus dr. taylor ; and i think it will be a task worthy the objectors pains , to solve his argument , if he will not absolve us from being idolaters . § . . he proceeds to prove , that catholicks are guilty of idolatry , by their invocation of saints . : and his argument is this ; if the supposition of a middle excellency between god and us , be a sufficient ground for formal invocation , then the heathens worship of their inferiour deities , could be no idolatry , for the heathens still pretended , that they did not give to them the worship proper to the supream god , which is as much as is pretended by the devoutest papists in justification of the invocation of saints . to answer this argument , i shall need little more than to explicate the hard words in it ; which thus i do . by persons of a middle excellency , we understand persons endowed with supernatural gifts of grace in this life , and glory in heaven , whose prayers by consequence are acceptable and available with god , what he means by formal invocation , i understand not well : but what we understand by it , is desiring or praying those just persons to pray for us . the supream deity of the heathens is known to be jupiter , and their inferiour deities , venus , mars , bacchus , vulcan , and the like rabble of devils , as the scripture calls them , the gods of the heathens are devils . the terms thus explicated , 't is easie to see the inconsequence of the argument , that because the heathens were idolaters in worshipping mars and venus their inferiour deities , or rather devils , though they pretended not to give them the worship proper to jupiter their supream god : therefore the catholicks , must be guilty of idolatry , in desiring the servants of the true god , to pray for them to him ; upon this account we must not desire the prayer of a just man , even in this life , because this formal invocation will be to make him an inferiour deity . but if some sect of heathens , as the platonists , did attain to the knowledge of the true god , yet st. paul says , they did not glorifie him as god ; but changed his glory into an image made like to corruptible man , adoring and offering sacrifice due to god alone , to the statues themselves , or the inferiour deities they supposed to dwell or assist in them . which inferiour deities st. austin upon the ninety sixth psalm , proves to be devils or evil angels , because they required sacrifice to be offered to them , and would be worshipped as gods. now what comparison there is between this worship of the heathens inferiour deities , and christians worship of saints and angels , let the same st. austin declare in his twentieth book against faustus the manichaean , chap. . faustus there calumniates the catholicks ( the word is st. austins ) because they honoured the memories or shrines of martyrs , charging them to have turned the idols into martyrs , whom they worship ( said he ) with like vows . the objection you see is not new , that catholicks make inferiour deities of their saints . faustus long ago made it , and st. austins answer will serve as well now as then . christian people , sayes he , do with religious solemnity celebrate the memory of martyrs , both to excite to the imitation of them , and to become partakers of their merits , and be holpen by their prayers , but to that we erect altars , not to any of the martyrs , but to the god of martyrs , although in memory of the said martyrs ; for what bishop officiating at the altar , in the places where their holy bodies are deposited ; does say at any time we offer to thee peter , or paul , or cyprian ? but what is offered to god , who crown'd the martyrs , at the memories or shrines of those whom he crowned , that being put in mind by the very places , a greater affection may be raised in us to quicken our love , both to those whom we may imitate , and towards him by whose assistance we can do it . we worship therefore the martyrs with that worship of love and society , with which even in this life also holy men of god are worshipped , whose heart we judge prepared to suffer the like martyrdom for the truth of the gospel . but we worship them so much the more devoutly , because more securely , after they have overcome all the incertainties of this world ; as also we praise them more confidently now reigning conquerors , in a more happy life , than whilst they were sighting in this ; but with that worship , which in greek is called latria , ( and cannot be expressed by one word in latin ) for as much as it is a certain service properly due to the divinity , we neither worship them , nor teach them to be worshipped , but god alone . now whereas the offering of sacrifice belongs to this worship ( of latria ) from whence they are called idolaters , who gave it also to idols , by no means do we suffer any such thing , or command it to be offered , to any martyr , or any holy soul , or any angel : and whosoever declines into this error , we reprove him by sound doctrine , either that he may be corrected , or avoided . — and a little after . it is a much less sin , for a man to be derided by the martyrs for drunkenness , then ever fasting to offer sacrifice to them . i say to sacrifice to martyrs , i say not to sacrifice to god in the memories ( or churches ) of the martyrs , which we do most frequently , by that rite alone , by which in the manifestation of the new testament he hath commanded sacrifice to be offered to him , which belongs to that worship , which is called latria , and is due only to god. this was the doctrine and practice of christian people in st. augustines time , and that he himself held formal invocations a part of the worship due to saints , is evident from the prayer he made to st. cyprian after his martyrdom . adjuveritque nos beatus cyprianus orationibus suis , &c. let blessed cyprian therefore help us ( who are still encompassed with this mortal flesh , and labour ▪ as in a dark cloud ) with his prayer , that by gods grace we may , as far as we are able , imitate his good works . thus st. austin , where you see he directs his prayer to st. cyprian , which i take to be formal invocation ; and for a further confirmation of it , we have the ingenuous confession of calvin himself , instit. li. . ch . . n. . where speaking of the third council of carthage , in which st. austin was present , he acknowledged it was the custom at that time to say , sancta maria , aut sancte petre ora pro nobis ; holy mary , or holy peter pray for us . but now madam , what if after all this , he himself shall deny , that any of the opposite tenets are articles of his faith , viz. that honour is not to be given to the images of christ and his saints , that what appears to be bread in the eucharist , is not the body of christ : that it is not lawful to invocate the saints to pray for us . press him close , and i believe you shall find him deny , that he believes any one of these negative points to be divine truths ; and if so , you will easily see his charge of idolatry against us , to be vain and groundless . having thus given a direct and punctual answer to his argument , i must now expect as much charity from him , as is consistent with scripture and reason . how much that is , you will see in his third answer to the first question . but to proceed . § . . he brings a miscellany of such opinions and practices ( as he calls them ) which are very apt to hinder a good life , and therefore none who have a care of their salvation , can venture their souls in the communion of such a church , which either enjoyns , or publickly allows them . he reckons up no less than ten . . that we destroy the necessity of good life , by makeing the sacrament of penance ( that is , confession and absolution ) joyned with contrition , sufficient for salvation . and do not protestants make contrition alone , which is less , sufficient for salvation ? but perhaps the joyning of confession and absolution with contrition , makes it of a malignant nature : if so , certainly when the book of common prayer in the visitation of the sick , enjoyns the sick man , if he find his conscience troubled with any weighty matter , to make a special confession , and receive absolution from the priest in the same words the catholick church uses , it prescribes him , that as a means to prepare himself for a holy death , which in the judgement of the objector , destroyes the necessity of good life . . catholicks , he sayes , take off the care of good life , by supposing an expiation of sin ( by the prayer of the living ) after death : but certainly the belief of temporal pains to be sustained after death , if there be not a perfect expiation of sin in this life , by works of penance , is rather apt to make a man careful not to commit the least sin , than to take off the care of a good life . and though he be ascertained by faith , that he may be holpen by the charitable suffrages of the faithful living , yet this is no more encouragement to him to sin , than it would be to a spendthrift to run into debt , and be cast into prison , because he knows he may be relieved by the charity of his friends . if he were sure there were no prison for him , that would be an encouragement indeed to play the spend-thrift . and this is the case of the protestants in their denyal of purgatory . . the sincerity of devotion , he sayes , is much obstructed by prayers in a language which many understand not . if he speak of private prayers , all catholicks are taught to say them in their mother tongue : if of the publick prayers of the church , i understand not why it may not be done with as much sincerity of devotion , the people joyning their intention and particular prayers with the priest , as their embassador to god , as if they understood him : i am sure the effects of a sincere devotion , for nine hundred years together which this manner of worship produced in this nation , were much different from those we have seen since the readucing of the publick lyturgie into english , as is manifest from those monuments , which yet remain of churches , colledges , religious houses , &c. with their endowments , and in the conversion of many nations from heathenism to christianity , effected by the labours and zeal of english missionaries in those times , &c. but this is a matter of discipline , and so not to be regulated by the fancies of private men , but the judgement of the church ; and so universal hath this practice been both in the primitive greek and latine churches , and is still ( by the confession of the ( protestant ) authors themselves of the bible of many languages , printed at london , anno . ) in most of the sects of christians , to have not only the scriptures , but also the liturgies and rituals in a tongue unknown , but to the learned among them : that who will dispute against it , must prepare himself to hear the censure of st. austin , ep. . where he saith , that it is a point of most insolent madness , to dispute whether that be to be observed , which is frequented by the whole church through the world . . he sayes , the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed , by making the efficacy of sacraments depend upon the bare administration , whether our minds be prepared for them or not . in what council this doctrine was defined , i never read ; but as for the sacrament of penance , which i suppose he chiefly aims at , i read in the council of trent , sess. . falso quidam calumniantur , that some do falsly calumniate catholick writers , as if they taught the sacrament of penance did confer grace without the good motion of the receiver , which the church of god never taught nor thought . but i am rather inclined to look upon this as a mistake , than a calumny in the objector . . he sayes , the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed by discouraging the reading of scriptures , which is our most certain rule of faith and life . here he calls the churches prudential dispensing the reading of scripture to persons , whom she judges fit and disposed for it , and not to such whom she judges in a condition to receive , or do harm by it , a discouraging the reading of scriptures ; which is no other than whereas st. paul , coloss. . . enjoyns fathers not to provoke their children , lest they be discouraged ; one should reprove a father for discouraging his child , because he will not put a knife or sword into his hands , when he foresees he will do mischief with it to himself or others ; the scriptures in the hands of a meek and humble soul , who submits its judgement in the interpretation of it to that of the church , is a sword to defend it : but in the hands of an arrogant and presumptuous spirit , that hath no guide to interpret it , but it s own fancy or passion , it is a dangerous weapon , with which he will wound both himself and others . the first that permitted promiscuous reading of scripture in our nation , was king henry the eighth ; and many years were not passed , but he found the ill consequences of it ; for in a book set forth by him in the year . he complains in the preface , that he found entred into some of his peoples hearts an inclination to sinister understanding of it , presumption , arrogancy , carnal liberty , and contention : which he compares to the seven worse spirits in the gospel , with which the devil entred into the house that was purged and cleansed . whereupon he declares that for that part of the church ordained to be taught , ( that is , the lay people ) it ought not to be denyed certainly , that the reading of the old and new testament is not so necessary for all those folks , that of duty they ought and be bound to read it ; but as the prince and policy of the realm shall think convenient , so to be tolerated or taken from it . consonant whereunto , saith he , the politick law of our realm , hath now restrained it from a great many . this was the judgement of him , who first took upon him the title of head of the church of england ; and if that ought not to have been followed in after times , let the dire effects of so many new sects and fanaticisms , as have risen in england from the reading of it , bear witness . for as st. austin sayes , neque enim natae sunt haereses ; heresies have no other origen but hence , that the scriptures which in themselves are good , are not well understood , and what is understood amiss in them , is rashly and boldly asserted , viz. to be the sense of them . and now whether the scriptures left to the private interpretation of every fanciful spirit , as it is among protestants , be a most certain rule of faith and life , i leave to your self to judge . . he sayes , the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed by the multitude of superstitious observations never used in the primitive church , as he is ready to defend , he should have said to prove ; for we deny any such to be used in the church . . by the gross abuse of people in pardons and indulgences . against this , i can assert as an eye-witness , the great devotion caused by the wholsome use of indulgences in catholick countreys : there being no indulgence ordinarily granted , but enjoyns him that will avail himself of it , to confess his sins , to receive the sacraments , to pray , fast , and give alms , all which duties are with great devotion performed by catholick people , which without the incitement of an indulgence , had possibly been left undone . . he sayes , the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed , by denying the cup to the laity , contrary to the practice of the church in the solemn celebration of the eucharist for a thousand years after christ. this thousand years after christ makes a great noise , as if it were not as much in the power of the church a thousand years after christ , as well as in the first or second century to alter and change things of their own nature indifferent , such as the communicating under one or both kinds , was ever held to be by catholicks . but although the cup were not then denyed to the laity , yet that the custome of receiving but under one kind was permitted , even in the primitive church , in private communions , the objector seems to grant , becasue he speaks only of the administration of it in the solemn celebration , and that it was also in use in publick communions , is evident from examples of that time , both in the greek church in the time of st. chrysostome ; and of the latin in the time of st. leo the great . as for the pretended obstruction of devotion , you must know catholicks believe that under either species or kind , whole christ true god and man is contained and received ; and if it be accounted an hindrance to devotion to receive the total refection of our soul , though but under one kind , what must it be to believe that i receive him under neither , but instead of him have elements of bread and wine ? surely nothing can be more efficacious to stir up reverence and devotion in us , than to believe , that god himself will personally enter under our roof . the ninth hinderance of the sincerity of devotion is , that we make it in the power of a person to dispense in oathes and marriages contrary to the law of god. to this i answer , that some kind of oaths , the condition of the person and other circumstances considered , may be iudged to be hurtful , and not fit to be kept , and the dispensation in them is , no more than to iudge or determine them to be so : and consequently to do this cannot be a hinderance but a furtherance to devotion , nor is it contrary to the law of god which commands nothing that 's hurtful to be done . as for marriages we acknowledge the church may dispense in some degrees of consanguinity and affinity , but in nothing contrary to the law of god. his tenth pretended obstruction of devotion is , that we make disobedience to the church in disputable matters , more hainous than disobedience to christ in unquestionable things , as marriage , he saith , in a priest to be a greater crime than fornication . i answer , that whether a priest may marry or no ( supposing the law of the church forbidding it ) is not a disputable matter ; but 't is out of question , even by the law of god that obedience is to be given to the commands or prohibitions of the church : the antithesis therefore between disobedience to the church , in disputable matters , and disobedience to the laws of christ in unquestionable things , is not only impertinent to the marriage of priests which is unquestionably forbidden ; but supposing the matter to remain disputable after the churches prohibition , destroys all obedience to the church . but if it suppose them only disputable before , then why may not the church interpose her iudgement , and put them out of dispute ? but still it seems strange to them , who either cannot or will not take the word of christ , that is , his counsel of chastitie , that marriage in a priest should be a greater sin than fornication . but he considers not , that though marriage in it self be honourable , yet , if it be prohibited to a certain order of persons , by the church to whom christ himself commands us to give obedience , and they oblige themselves by a voluntary vow to live in perpetual chastity , the law of god commanding us to pay our vows , it loses its honour in such persons , and if contracted after such vow made , is in the language of the fathers no better than adultery . in the primitive church it was the custome of some younger widdows to dedicate themselves to the service of the church , and in order thereunto to take upon them a peculiar habit , and make a vow of continency for the future . now in case they married after this , st. paul himself , tim. . . saith , that they incurred damnation , because by so doing , they made void their first faith , that is , as the fathers expound it , the vow they had made . and the fourth council of carthage , in which were bishops , and among them st. austin gives the reason in these words ; if wives who commit adultery are guilty to their husbands , how much more shall such widdows as change their religious state , be noted with the crime of adultery ? and if this were so in widdows , much more in priests , if by marrying they shall make void their first faith given to god , when they were consecrated in a more peculiar manner to his service . thus much may suffice for answer to the argument , which with its intricate terms may seem to puzzle an unlearned reader , let us now speak a word to the true state of the controversie , which is , whether marriage or single life in a priest be more apt to obstruct or further devotion . and st. paul himself hath determined the question , cor. . . where he saith , he that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to our lord , how he may please our lord ; but he that is married careth for the things that are of the world , how be may please his wife . this is the difference he putteth between the married and single life , that this is apt to make us care for the things which belong to god ; and that to divert our thoughts from him to the things of the world. iudge therefore which of these states is most convenient for priests , whose proper office it is to attend wholly to the things of god ? having thus cleared catholick doctrines from being any wayes obstructive to good life or devotion , i shall proceed to his third argument , by which he will still prove that catholicks run a great hazard of their souls , in adhering to the communion of the church of rome , because it exposeth the faith of christians to so great uncertainty . this is a strange charge from the pen of a protestant , who hath no other certainty for his faith but every mans interpretation of the letter of the scriptures . but , first he saith it doth this , by making the authority of the scriptures to depend upon the infallibility of the church , when the churches infallibility must be proved by the scriptures . to this i answer that the authority of the scripture , not in it self , for so it hath its authority from god ; but in order to us and our belief of it , depends upon the infallibility of the church . and therefore st. austin saith of himself , that he would not believe the gospel , unless the authority of the catholick church did move him . and if you ask him what moved him to submit to that authority ; he tells you , that besides the wisdom he found in the tenets of the church , there were many other things which most justly held him in it : as the consent of people and nations , an authority begun by miracles , nourished by hope , increased by charity , and established by antiquity , the succession of priests , from the very seat of st. peter , to whom our lord commended the feeding of his sheep , unto the present bishoprick . lastly , the very name of catholick which this church alone among so many heresies hath not without cause obtained so particularly to her self ; that whereas all hereticks would be called catholicks , yet if a stranger demand where the catholicks go to church , none of these hereticks dares to shew either his own house or church . these ( saith st. austin , ) so many and great , most dear bonds of the name of christian , do justly hold a believing man in the catholick church . these were the grounds which moved that great man to submit to her authority : and when catholick authors prove the infallibility of the church from scriptures , 't is an argument ad hominem to convince protestants who will admit nothing but scripture , and yet when they are convinced , quarrel at them as illogical disputants , because they prove it from scripture . next he saith we overthrow all foundation of faith , because we will not believe our sences in the plainest objects of them . but what if god have interposed his authority , as he hath done in the case of the eucharist , where he tells us , that it is his body , must we believe our sences rather than god ? or must we not believe them in other things , because in the particular case of the eucharist we must believe god , rather than our sences ? both these consequences you see are absurd : now for the case it self , in which he instances , dr. taylor above cited confesses , that they ( viz. catholicks ) have a divine revelation ( viz. christs word , this is my body ) whose litteral and grammatical sence , if that sence were intended , would warrant them to do violence to all the sciences , in the circle ; but , i add , it would be no precedent to them not to believe their sences in other the plainest objects of them , as in the matter of tradition , or christs body after the resurrection . . he saith that we expose faith to great uncertainty , by denying to men the use of their judgement and reason as to matters of faith proposed by a church , that is , we deny particular mens iudgement , as to matters of faith , to be as good if not better than the churches , and to inferre from hen●e , that we make faith uncertain , is just as if on the contrary one should say , that protestants make faith certain by exposing matter of faith determined by the church , to be discussed and reversed by the iudgement and reason ( or rather fancy ) of every private man. we have good store of this kind of certainty in england . but as for the use of our iudgement and reason , as to the matters themselves proposed by the church , it is the daily business of divines and preachers , not only to shew them not to be repugnant to any natural truth , but also to illustrate them with arguments drawn from reason . but the use , he would have of reason , is i suppose , to believe nothing , but what his reason can comprehend , and this is not only irrational in its self , but contrary to the doctrine of st. paul , where he commands us to captivate our understandings to the obedience of faith. . he adds , we expose faith to uncertainty by making the church power extend to making new articles of faith. and this if it were true , were something indeed to his purpose . but the church never yet owned any such power , in her general councils , but only to manifest and establish the doctrine received from her fore-fathers ; as is to be seen in the prooems of all the sessions of the council of trent , where the fathers before they declare what is to be believed , ever premise that what they declare , is the same they have received by tradition from the apostles . and because it may happen that some particular doctrine was not so plainly delivered to each part of the church , as it happened in st. cyprians case , concerning the non-rebaptization of hereticks , we acknowledge it is in her power , to make that necessary to be believed which was not so before , not by inventing new articles , but by declaring more explicitely the truths contained in scripture and tradition . lastly he saith , we expose faith to great uncertainty , because the church pretending to infallibility , does not determine controversies on foot among our selves . as if faith could not be certain , unless all controversies among particular men be determined , what then becomes of the certainty of protestants faith , who could yet never find out a sufficient means to determine any one controversie among them ? for if that means be plain scripture , what one iudgeth plain , another iudgeth not so , and they acknowledge no iudge between them to decide the controversie . as for the catholick church if any controversies arise concerning the doctrine delivered ( as in st. cyprians case ) she determines the controversie by declaring what is of faith. and for other controversies which belong not to faith , she permits , as st. paul saith , every one to abound in his own sence . and thus much in answer to his third argument , by which , and what hath been said to his former objections , it appears that he hath not at all proved what he asserted in his second answer to the first question , viz. that all those who are in the communion of the church of rome do run so great a hazard of their salvation , that none who have a care of their souls ought to embrace or continue in it . but he hath a third answer for us , in case the former faile ; and it is , § . . that a protestant leaving the communion of the protestant church doth incurr a greater guilt , than one who was bred up in the church of rome , and continues therein by invincible ignorance . this is the directest answer he gives to the question , and what it imports is this , that invincible ignorance ( and he doth not know what allowance god will make for that neither ) is the only anchor which a catholick hath to save himself by . if by discoursing with protestants , and reading their books , he be not sufficiently convinced , whereas he ought in the supposition of the answerer , to be so , that the letter of the scripture as interpretable by every private mans reason is a most certain rule of faith and life ; but is still over-ruled by his own motives , ( the same which held st. austin in the bosome of the catholick church ) he is guilty of wilful ignorance and consequently a lost man ; there is no hope of salvation for him . much less for a protestant who shall embrace the catholick communion , because he is supposed ( doubtless from the same rule ) to have sufficient conviction of the errors of the roman church , or is guilty of wilful ignorance , if he have it not , which is a damnable sin , and unrepented of destroyes salvation . so that now the upshot of the answer to the question , whether a protestant embracing catholick religion upon the same motives , which one bred and well grounded in it , hath to remain in it , may be equally saved with him , comes to this , that they shall both be damned , though unequally , because the converted catholick more deeply , than he that was bred so . and now who can but lament the sad condition of that great doctor and father of the church , and hitherto reputed st. austin , who rejecting the manichees pretended rule of scripture , upon the aforesaid grounds , left their communion to embrace the communion of the church of rome ? and what is become now of their distinction of points fundamental from not fundamental , which heretofore they thought sufficient to secure both catholicks and protestants salvation , and to charge us with unconscionable uncharitableness in not allowing them to be sharers with us . the absurdness of these consequences may serve for a sufficient conviction of the nullity of his third and last answer to the first question . as for what he saith to the second , i agree so far with him , that every christian is bound to choose the communion of the purest church , but which that church is , must be seen by the grounds it brings to prove the doctrines it teaches , to have been delivered by christ and his apostles . that church is to be judged purest which hath the best grounds : and consequently it is of necessity to salvation to embrace the communion of it . what then you are bound to do in reason and conscience is , to see which religion of the two , hath the strongest motives for it , and to embrace that as you will answer the contrary to god and your own soul. to help you to do this , and that the answerer may have the less exception against them , i will give you a catalogue of catholick motives ( though not all neither ) in the words of the forecited dr. taylor , advertising only for brevity sake , i leave out some mentioned by him , and that in these i set down , you also give allowance for some expressions of his , with which he hath mis-represented them : thus then he , liberty of proph. sect. . speaking of catholicks , the beauty and splendour of their church , their pompous ( he should have said ) solemn service ; the stateliness and solemnity of the hierarchy , their name of catholick , which they suppose ( he should have said , their very adversaries give them ) as their own due , and to concern no other sect of christians ; the antiquity of many of their doctrines , ( he should have said all ) the continual succession of their bishops , their immediate derivation from the apostles ; their title to succeed st. peter , the flattering ( he should have said due ) expression of minor bishops ( he means , acknowledging the pope head of the church ) which by being old records , have obtained credibility ; the multitude and variety of people which are of their perswasion ; apparent consent with antiquity in many ceremonials , which other churches have rejected ; and a pretended and sometimes ( he should have said alwayes ) apparent consent with some elder ages in matters doctrinal ; the great consent of one part with another in that which most of them affirm to be de fide ( of faith ) the great differences which are commenced among their adversaries , abusing the liberty of prophecying into a very great licentiousness ; their happiness of being instruments in converting divers ( he should rather have said of all ) nations . the piety and austerity of their religious orders of men and women ; the single life of their priests and bishops , the severity of their fasts , and their exteriour observances , the great reputation of their first bishops for faith and sanctity ; the known holiness of some of those persons , whose institutes the religious persons pretend to imitate ; the oblique arts and indirect proceedings of some of those who departed from them , and amongst many other things the names of heretick and schismatick which they with infinite pertinacity ( he should have said , upon the same grounds the fathers did ) fasten upon all that disagree from them . these things , saith he , and divers others may very easily perswade persons of much reason , and more piety to retain that which they know to have been the religion of their fore-fathers , which had actually possession and seizure of mens understandings , before the opposite professions ( to wit of protestant , presbyterian , anabaptist , &c. ) had a name . thus dr. taylor , an eminent and leading man amongst the protestants ; and if he confess that these motives were sufficient for a catholick to retain his religion , they must be of like force to perswade a dis-interessed protestant to embrace it , unless the protestants can produce motives for their religion of greater , or at least equal force , with these , which so great a man among them confesseth , that catholicks have for theirs . here therefore you must call upon the author of the paper you sent me to produce a catalogue of grounds , or at least some one ground for the protestant religion of greater or equal force with all these : and as dr. taylor saith , divers others which he omitted , viz. the scripture interpreted by the consent of fathers , the determination of general councils , the known maxime of catholicks , that nothing is to be believed of faith , but what was received from their fore-fathers as handed down from the apostles . the testimonie of the present church , of no less authority now , than in st. austins time , both for the letter and the sence of the scripture , &c. do this , and the controversie will quickly be at an end . particular disputes are endless , and above the understanding of such , as are not learned ; but in grounds and principles , 't is not so hard for reason and common sence to iudge . that you may the better do it in your case , i shall desire you to take these two cautions along with you : first , that the subject of the present controversie , are not those articles in which the protestants agree with us , and for which they may pretend to produce the same motives , we do : but in those in which they dissent from us such as are no transubstantiation , no purgatory , no honour due to images , no invocation to saints , and the like , in which the very essence of protestant , as distinct from catholick consists . what motives they can or will produce for these . i do not foresee : the pretence of scriptures being sufficiently plain hath no place here , because then the foresaid negatives would be necessary to be believed as divine truths . and for their own reason and learning , it will be found too light when put into the scale against that of the catholick church for so many ages . the second caution is , that you be careful to distinguish between protestants producing grounds for their own religion , and finding fault with ours . an atheist can cavil and find fault with the grounds which learned men bring to prove a deity , such as are the order of this visible world , the general consent of nations , &c. in this an atheist thinks he doth somewhat . but can he produce as good or better grounds for his own opinion ? no , you see then 't is one thing to produce grounds for what we hold , and another to find fault with those which are produced by the contrary part . the latter hath made controversie so long , and the former will make it as short ; let the answerer therefore instead of finding fault with our motives produce his own for the articles in controversie , and i am confident you will quickly discern which carry the most weight , and consequently which are to be preferred . a defence of the foregoing answer to the questions . chap. i. of the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in the worship of images . the introduction , concerning the occasion of the debate . the church of rome makes its members guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry : first , of the worship of god by images : some propositions for clearing the notion of divine worship . it is in gods power to determine the way of his worship , which being determined , gods law , and not our intention , is to be the rule of worship . the main question is , whether god hath forbidden the worshipping of himself by an image , under the notion of idolatry ? of the meaning of the second commandment , from the terms therein used , the large sense and importance of them , which cannot be understood only of heathen idols . of the reason of that law , from gods infinite and invisible nature : how far that hath been acknowledged by heathens ? the law against image worship no ceremonial law respecting meerly the iews ; the reason against it made more clear by the gospel : the wiser heathen did not worship their images as gods , yet their worship condemned as idolatry . the christian church believed the reason of this law to be immutable ; of the doctrine of the second council of nice ; the opposition to it in greece , germany , france and england . of the scripture instances of idolatry contrary to the second commandment , in the golden calf , and the calves of dan and bethel . of the distinctions used to excuse image-worship from being idolatry : the vanity and folly of them . the instances supposed to be parallel answered . madam , § . . that increase of controversies in my answer , which the proposer of the questions , calls a superfoetation , was but the natural issue of his own questions . to which , i could not give a just answer , without mentioning the hazards a person runs of his salvation in the communion of the roman church : and if he thinks these too many ( as in truth they are ) he ought to condemn that church for it , which hath been the cause of them . and , i know no other end i had herein , but to let you see , there can be no reason to forsake the communion of our church , wherein the way of salvation is the same , with that of the apostolical and primitive church , for another , which hath degenerated so much from it ; as i hope will appear in the following discourse . to wave therefore any farther debate , concerning the terms or sense of the questions : as to the occasion of them , i could not but suppose it to relate to your own condition , and i dare appeal to himself , whether the question of the possibility of the salvation of a protestant turn'd to the church of rome were moved for any other end , than thereby the easier to draw persons of our church into their communion ; which being so common , and yet so weak an artifice , i had reason to premise an answer to that purpose : and i do still affirm , that such a possibility being granted , it is no sufficient motive to any one to leave the communion of one church for another . and whether this be to his question or no , i am sure it is very much to the purpose , for which this controversie was first started . i beseech you therefore madam , do not so much disparage your own judgement , and the church you have been bred up in , to forsake it , till some better reason be offered , than the proposer pretends that his questions imply : which , if not for your own sake , yet for mine i desire you to insist upon , that i may know one reason at least from them , ( which i cannot yet procure , although i have often requested it ) why the believing all the ancient creeds and leading a good life , may not be sufficient to salvation , unless one be of the communion of the church of rome ? but lest i should be thought to digress , i return to his papers , and am willing to pass over his unhandsome reflection on our church as in a sinking condition , which god hath hitherto preserved , and i hope will do , to the confusion of its enemies : but why he should call my comparison a supposition , and his own a truth , before he proved their church to be the catholick church , i am yet to seek . and so i come to the main business . § . . my second answer was , that all those who are in the communion of the church of rome , do run so great a hazard of their salvation , that none who have a care of their souls , ought to embrace it , or continue in it . which i am amazed he should say , was not pertinent to the question , if the question were propounded for any ones satisfaction , that doubted which churches communion it were best to embrace ? this i proved , . because they must by the terms of that communion , be guilty either of hypocrisie or idolatry ; either of which , are sins inconsistent with salvation . here he charges me with a contradiction , because i overprove what i intended ; but he may easily excuse me from it , if he will allow the possibility of salvation to any one who commits any wilful sins ; for in the case of any such sins , it is true , that they are inconsistent with salvation , and yet he that doth commit them , doth but run the hazzard of salvation , because he may repent of them . but if it be a contradiction to say , that some sins are inconsistent with salvation , yet those who commit them , may be saved , though hardly ; he must make all who commit any wilful sin to be unavoidably damned ; and then it is to no purpose , what church we are of . the meaning therefore was this , that hypocrisie and idolatry , are sins inconsistent with a state of salvation ; and there is no way to escape being damned , but by the repentance of those who are guilty of them . ( but of this more at large in the vindication of my third answer ) and those who are in the communion of the church of rome , must be guilty either of the one or the other of these , i proved by this argument , that church which requires giving to the creature the worship due only to the creator , makes the members of it guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry ; but the church of rome in the worship of god by images , the adoration of bread in the eucharist , and the formal invocation of saints , doth require giving to the creature the worship due only to the creator , therefore it makes the members of it guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry . which i did prove by parts . . § . . concerning the worship of god by images , i proved that it could not be terminated on god , because in the second commandment he not only denys to receive it , but threatens to punish those who give it . to this he answers . that it is a contradiction to say , that it is the worship of god by an image , and yet be terminated wholly on the creature . . that this is built , on a mistake of the nature of humane acts , which though they ought to be governed by the law of god , yet when they swerve from it , cease not to tend to their own proper objects : and that gods prohibition of such or such a kind of worship , may make it to be unlawful , but hinders not the act from tending , whither it is intended ; which he proves by the prayers of thieves and murderers , to god for good success ; the iews offering to god in sacrifice the blind and the lame , which he hath forbidden ; cains offering a sacrifice to god , which he refused to accept of ; from whence he concludes , that though god should have forbidden men to worship him by images , yet it doth not follow , but the worship so given , would be terminated on him . . that the second commandment only forbids the worship of idols , or the giving the soveraign honour due to god to an idol ; but this doth not forbid the worship of images , because they give to them only an inferiour and relative honour , and not , that worship which is due to god. this is the substance of his answer : but to let you see the insufficiency of it , i shall prove these two things : . that where god hath prohibited any particular way or means of giving worship to himself , that worship so given , cannot be said to be terminated on him . . that god in the second commandment hath expresly prohibited the giving any worship to himself by an image ; and not barely the worship of idols . . that where god hath prohibited any particular way or means of giving worship to himself , that worship so given , cannot be said to be terminated on him : and however new this way of proposing this argument , seems to him , i do not question to make it good , notwithstanding his so peremptory denying it , as absolutely false . but in order to the clearing of it , i shall lay down these propositions . . that worship is nothing else but an external signification of honour and respect . for we do not here speak concerning the bare internal acts of the mind ; but of the way whereby the esteem we have in our minds , is expressed in such a manner as to give honour to that which we so esteem . . that the signification of honour , which is due to god is not to be measured by the intentions of men , against the declared will of god. for , it being in his power to determine in what way he will be worshipped , we are not to enquire , whether men do intend any act of theirs for his honour ; but whether god doth allow it or no ? and herein lyes his great mistake in thinking , that mens intentions are to be the rule of divine worship : so that what they design for the honour of god , must needs end in it . whereas , if god hath the power of making a rule for his own worship , he cannot be honoured by mens doing any thing against his declared will , whatever their intention be . for , then god might be honoured by the most palpable acts of disobedience ; which is a plain contradiction ; for what can be greater dishonour to god , than to break his laws for his honour . . the divine law being the rule of worship , all prohibited wayes of worship must receive that denomination which god himself gives them . as if a prince should declare it by his laws , to be treason for any man to bow down to a sign-post with his head upon it , under pretence of giving the greater honour to his prince ; i desire to know , whether a mans intentions of honouring his prince thereby , excuse him from treason or no ? so it is in our case , if god absolutely prohibits the worship of himself by an image , whatever the intention of the person be , and calls this by the name of idolatry , no mans directing the intention of his mind beyond the image , can excuse him from it . from whence , it necessarily follows , that the worship of god by an image , when himself hath prohibited it , and declared it idolatry , as i shall prove he hath done in the second commandment , cannot be terminated on god , but only on the image ; for no man will be so absurd , as to say , that an act of idolatry is terminated upon god. by which we see , how far it is from the appearance of a contradiction , to say that the worship of god by an image being declared to be idolatry by himself , should be terminated wholly on the creature , ( which are but other words explaining the nature of idolatry ) and what an easie answer will take off all his other instances . for those do not suppose , any prohibited object or means of worship , which is the only thing we speak of ; but either praying to the true god for bad ends , as in the case of thieves and murderers praying for good success ; or bringing something in sacrifice to him which he had forbidden , as the iews offering the blind and the lame : or some miscarriage in the minds of them that sacrifice or pray to him , as in cains oblation , and wicked mens prayers ; but all these are very remote from the present debate , concerning an object or means of worship prohibited by god himself under the notion of idolatry . this being cleared , i come to prove , § . . . that god in the second commandment hath expresly prohibited the giving any worship to himself by an image : and not meerly giving the worship of god to idols , as he asserts . our controversie now being about the sense of a law , the best wayes we have to find out the meaning of it , are either , from the terms wherein it is expressed , or from the reason annexed to it ; or from the judgement of those whom we believe best able to understand and interpret it . i shall therefore prove that to be the meaning of this law of god which i have set down , from every one of these wayes . . from the terms wherein the law is expressed : this i the rather insist upon , because it is the way himself hath chosen : for he saith , the hebrew word pesel , in latin sculptile is used in scripture to signifie an idol , and so the lxx . translate it in this place by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore saith , it was an artifice of the protestants to translate it image instead of idol , and not any certain kind of image neither , but any whatsoever ; thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , instead of , thou shalt not make to thy self an idol . by his own acknowledgement then , we are to judge the sense of the law , by the importance of the words therein used ; but i shall prove , first , that supposing pesel did signifie only an idol , yet that were not enough . secondly , that pesel is very properly rendred by the protestants , and that it doth not signifie barely an idol . . supposing that were the signification of pesel which he contends for , that were not enough , unless there had been no other word but that used in the law : but another word is added to prevent a mistake of that nature , of as large a signification as may be to this purpose : which is , themuna , which they render similitude as well as we , and is never used in the whole scripture to signifie such an idol as he supposes this law intends . to what purpose then are words of the largest signification put into a law ; if the sense be limited according to the most narrow acceptation of one word mentioned therein ? for there is no kind of image , whether graven , or painted , whether of a real or imaginary being , but is comprehended under the signification of the words set down in the law : for not only the making a similitude in general , is forbidden , but any kind of similitude whether of things in heaven , or earth , or under the earth , to bow down to them , or worship them . i confess it cannot enter into my mind , how god should have forbidden the worship of images by more express and emphatical words than he hath done ; and if he had used any other words , their sense might as well have been perverted as these are . if a prince should under a very severe penalty forbid all his subjects making any image or resemblance , with an intent to give honour to him by kneeling before them ; would not that man be thought very ridiculous , who should go about to interpret the law thus , that the prince did not forbid them making any picture of himself or his son , or any of his favourites ( for the worship of these could not but redound to his own honour ) but only that they should make the image of an ape , or an ass , or a tyger , thinking to honour their prince thereby ? much such an exposition is that here given of the law ; god forbids any image or similitude to be made with respect to his worship ( for it is ridiculous to imagine the law means any thing else ) but , he saith , this law must not be understood to exclude a crucifix , nor i suppose any image of god himself : ( at least as he appeared of old ; ) nor of his saints or angels , with an intention to worship god by them ; but only they should not worship apis or dagon , an ichneumon or a crocodile , or any of the most ridiculous follies of the heathen . if this had been the meaning of the law , why was it not more plainly expressed ? why were none of the words elsewhere used , by way of contempt of the heathen idols here mentioned , as being less lyable to ambiguity ? why in so short a comprehension of laws , is this law so much inlarged above what it might have been , if all that he saith , were only meant by it ? for then the meaning of the two first precepts might have been summed up in very few words : you shall have no other gods but me ; and you shall worship the images of no other gods but me . this is his meaning , but far enough from being that of the second commandment . . the only word he insists upon which is pesel , is very properly rendred an image , and it doth not signifie barely an idol : the word properly signifies any thing that is carved , or cut out of wood or stone : and it is no less than forty several times rendred by the lxx . by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sculptile , and but thrice by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and which is very observable , although exod. . . they render it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet in the repetition of the law , deut. . . the alexandrian ms. hath it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and deut. . . in other copies of the lxx . the same word is translated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; from whence it is plain , that when they translate it by an idol , they mean no more thereby than a graven image , and isa. . . they translate it , by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is properly an image ; so that no assistance can be given him by that translation ; and the vulgar latin it self useth idolum , sculptile and imago , all to express the same thing , isa. . , , . by which it appears , that any image being made so far the object of divine worship , that men do bow down before it ; doth thereby become an idol , and on that account is forbidden in this commandment . § . . . we consider the reason given of this law , which will more fully explain the meaning of it ; which the scripture tells us , was derived from gods infinite and incomprehensible nature , which could not be represented to men , but in a way that must be an infinite disparagement to it . to whom will ye liken god ? or what likeness will ye compare unto him ? the workman melteth a graven image , and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold , &c. have ye not known ? have ye not heard ? hath it not been told you from the beginning ? have ye not understood from the foundation of the earth ? it is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth , &c. i desire to know whether this reason be given against heathen idols , or those images which were worshipped for gods or no ? or whether , by this reason god doth not declare , that all worship given to him by any visible representation of him , is extreamly dishonourable to him ? and to this purpose , when this precept is enforced on the people of israel by a very particular caution , deut. . , , &c. take ye therefore good heed to your selves , lest ye corrupt your selves and make you a graven image , the similitude of any figure , &c. the ground of that caution , is expressed in these words , for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the lord spake unto you . if the whole intention of the law , were only to keep them from worshipping the heathen idols , or images for gods , to what purpose is it here mentioned that they saw no similitude of god when he spake to them ? for although god appeared with a similitude then , yet there might have been great reason against worshipping the heathen idols , or fixing the intention of their worship upon the bare image . but this was a very great reason , why they ought not to think of honouring god by an image ; for if he had judged that , a suitable way of worship to his nature and excellency ; he would not have left the choice of the similitude to themselves , but would have appeared himself in such a similitude as had best pleased him . § . . from hence the wiser persons of the heathens themselves condemned the worship of god by images , as incongruous to a divine nature and a disparagement to the deity . so theodoret tells us , that zeno in his books of government , did absolutely forbid the making any images for worship , because they were not things worthy of god : and that xenophanes colophonius derided the folly of those who made their images which they worshipped , to be like themselves , and by the same reason saith he , if horses and elephants could paint as men can , no doubt the gods would be made in their shape ; as the aethiopians and thracians and others made their gods in their own colour and fashion : but he addes , that the true god ought not to be represented by the resemblance of men to whom he was unlike in body and mind . and that the only reason which hindred plato from prohibiting all manner of images was only the fear of socrates his fate : for , saith he , he did forbid all private images , all images of gold and silver , of ivory , of iron and brass , and left only wood and stone , which being so contemptible matter might more easily keep the people from worshipping images made of them . as god himself , saith he , derideth the idolater in the prophet ; he burneth part thereof in the fire , and the residue thereof maketh he a god , even his graven image . antisthenes in clemens alexandrinus condemns the use of images for instruction , because there is so great a dissimilitude between god and any visible representation of him , that no man can learn any thing of god , from an image : and xenophon to the same purpose , that god is great and powerful , but we know not how to represent him . and clemens gives that reason why numa prohibited among the romans all images to represent the deity , because we could not attain to any due conception of the deity , but only by our minds , which is the same reason that plutarch gives . and therefore varro in the known testimony to this purpose , speaking of the old romans who had no images for years in their divine worship , saith , that if the same custome had continued , their worship would have been more pure and chaste ; and that those who first placed images in places of divine worship , increased their errour and took away their reverence ; wisely judging saith st. augustine that the folly of images would easily bring the deity into contempt . and augustus , as agrippa in philo reports , after he understood , that the iewes in their temple had no images or visible representations of the deity , expressed his wonder with great reverence , having no mean skill in philosophy . so that we see the wisest persons who had no such law from god to direct them , yet by the bare use of reason did agree in the thing it self , that it was unsuitable to the divine nature to worship god by any images or visible representations of him . from hence we have reason to suppose among the more ancient nations who kept nearer to the dictates of natural reason , the worship of images was almost generally rejected . so bardesanes in eusebius saith of the most eastern countries then known ; of the seres and the brachmanns , so herodotus , strabo , diogenes laertius say of the persians . so tacitus of the germans , that they rejected images , because they thought them unsuitable to the greatness of their deities . so lucian likewise saith of the most ancient aegyptians ; and historians agree of the romans , as we have already seen . if all this had been a meer positive law intended only for the iewes , because of their dulness and stupidity , as some imagine , whence comes it to pass that those who never heard of this law yet judged such a way of worship to be wholly unbecoming a divine nature ? it was not meerly the fear lest they should worship the images themselves for gods , which was the reason of the commandment , but the incongruity of such a way of worship to a being supposed to be of an infinite and a spiritual nature . § . . and it seems of all things the most strange to me , that any persons should think this precept only respected the iewish oeconomy ; and that now under the gospel where we have clearer discoveries of gods spiritual nature and worship , that we should be left at liberty to do that , which was before , unlawful to be done . was it inconsistent with gods nature then , and is it less so now , when we understand his nature much better ? and that is given as a particular reason why we ought to worship him after a spiritual manner ; and not by any corporeal representation as the iews say the samaritans worshipped god in the form of a dove in their temple on mount garizim : in which , notwithstanding what morinus saith , there seems to be no improbability not only from our saviours words and the occasion of speaking them to a samaritan woman , ( which we do not find he insisted on so much to the iewes as being then free from this kind of idolatry ) and the constant tradition of the iewes ; but from the nature of the samaritan religion which they received from the ten tribes , which worshipped god under images , as will appear afterwards , and the agreeableness of the symbol of a dove to the name of semiramis and their assyrian off-spring among whom the dove was accounted sacred . but however this be , since the reason of this command drawn from the invisible and spiritual nature of god , is now enforced upon us by the gospel as the ground of giving spiritual worship to god , how can any men in their senses imagine that worship should be lawful among christians which was unlawful to the iewes ? is it , that there is now no danger of falling into heathen idolatry as there was among the iewes , on which account god tied them up so strictly in this point of images ? but this is to begg the question , and to take it for granted that there was no other reason of this command , whereas god himself hath told us another , and that is , the incongruity of it to his infinite nature ; which the very heathens themselves apprehended in this case . i grant god might by this means design to keep them at the greatest distance from the heathen idolatry ; but that doth not hinder , but there was an evil in the thing it self , as it doth imply so great a disparagement of the divine nature to be worshipped by a corporeal representation . as we may say that the prohibition of common swearing was intended by god to keep men from perjury ; but besides that , it implyes so great an irreverence of god , that it is evil without that further respect . and can any one imagine there should be greater irreverence of god shewn in calling him to witness upon every slight occasion , than there is in bowing down before a block or a hewn stone representing god to my mind by it ? what can such an image do to the heightening of devotion , or raising affections ? if it be by calling to my mind that being i am to worship , then there must be supposed some likeness , or analogy , or vnion between the object represented and the image , every one of which tends highly to the dishonour of the deity , and suggests mean thoughts to us of the god we are to worship . and is there no danger among christians that they should entertain too low and unworthy thoughts of god ? and can any thing tend to it more effectually , than the bringing down the representations of him to the figure and lineaments of a man drawn upon a table or carved in an image ? on which account , it seems much more reasonable for me to worship god by prostrating my self to the sun , or any of the heavenly bodies , nay to an ant or a fly , than to a picture or an image : for in the other i see great evidences of the power , and wisdom and goodness of god , which may suggest venerable apprehensions of god to my mind ; whereas these can have nothing worthy admiration , unless it be the skill of the painter or artificer ? and i cannot , for my heart , understand ; why i may not as well , nay better , burn incense and say my prayers to the sun , having an intention only to honour the true g●d by it , as to do both those to an image : i am sure the sun hath far more advantages than any artificial image can have ; the beauty and influence of it may inflame and warm ones devotions much more . if the danger be , that i am more like to take the sun for god than an image : on that account , that which deserves most honour should have least given it , and that which deserves least should have most . for the danger is there still greater , where the excellency is greater , and by that means we ought rather to worship a beast than a saint , for there is less danger of believing one to be god than the other ; and so the aegyptians were more excusable than the papists . i must ingenuously confess , if i had been an heathen idolater , only upon such principles as these , that there is one supreme infinite being , who makes use of some more illustrious beings of the world , to communicate benefits to the rest , on which account , i thought my self bound to testifie the honour i owe to the supream deity , by paying my devotions in subordination to him , to those subservient and ministerial gods ; i should not have been afraid , of what any papists in the world could have said for my confutation . nay , i should have been tempted to have laughed at their folly and despised their weakness , who should plead for the worship of god in or by a dull and rude image , and condemn me for honouring god in the most noble parts of the creation ? if they had told me , that the supream god , must have a worship proper to himself ; yes , i should answer them in their own terms , i by no means question it , and that is it , which is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is reserved to the supream deity , all that i give to inferiour deities , is but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , only the sun deserved an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because of his eminent usefulness . if they had said , i made them gods by giving them religious worship : no more , than they do images . if yet they had urged , that god had forbidden worshipping the host of heaven ; yes , that is , giving the worship of the supreme god to them , but not a subordinate relative , inferiour worship , which was all i intended , and i hope they are not so ignorant of the nature of humane actions as not to know that they go whither they are intended ; and my intent was only to honour the true god by it : or else , that the worshipping the host of heaven was forbidden to the dull and stupid iewes , who had no kind of philos●phy in them , and did not see those admirable images of the divine perfections in them which i did ; but for men of philosophical and contemplative minds what injury to god could there be , as long as the more i saw cause to honour these , far greater i still saw to honour him who produced all these things ? or lastly , i would appeal to themselves whether the precept against worshipping the host of heaven , or images were more plain in the scripture ? the second commandment is not in words against the worship of the things but the images of them , and the first against worshipping them as the supream god ; i did neither ; but they could not possibly excuse themselves who did the same things to an image , which they do to god himself . thus we see the reason of the commandment is by no means appropriated to the iews , but doth extend as far as the knowledge of it doth : and the same arguments which notwithstanding that command would justifie the worship of images , will likewise justifie the most early , the most general , the most lasting idolatry of the world , which is the worship of the sun , moon , and starrs . and a mighty argument that the reason of this command , drawn from the unsuitableness of the worship of images to the nature of god is of an unalterable and universal nature , is , that the same reason is urged under the new testament against the idolatry of the heathens . so st. paul dealt with the athenians , proving the unreasonableness of their worshipping god by images , because he was the god that made the world and is lord of heaven and earth , and that we are his off-spring , therefore we ought not to think that the god head is like unto gold or silver , or stone graven by art or mans device : he doth not speak meerly against their other objects of worship besides the true god , nor their supposing their gods to be present in their images , nor taking their images for gods , but against their supposition that there was any resemblance between god and their images , or that he was capable of receiving any honour by them . the same argument he useth to the romans , speaking of those , in whom that which may be known of god is manifest , even his eternal power and god-head ; yet these persons who knew god , did not glorifie him as god , but changed the glory of the incorruptible god into an image made like to corruptible man , &c. where changing his glory into images , is immediately opposed to the glorifying him as god in respect of his eternal power and god-head ; so that those two are inconsistent with each other , to glorifie god by an image and to glorifie him as god. for here the apostle doth not discourse against the most gross and sottish idolaters of the heathens , but as st. chrysostome well observes against the philosophers and the wisest among them : who , though they differed in their opinions of religion extremely from the vulgar , yet they concurred with them in all the external practices of their idolatry . and therefore the apostle doth not charge them with false notions of a deity , for he saith , they held the truth in unrighteousness , that they knew god , but they shewed their vanity and solly in thinking they had found out subtiller wayes of defending the common idolatries among them , and instead of opposing them , made use of their wits , to excuse them . and the most intelligent heathens did never look on their images as any other than symbols or representations of that being to which they gave divine worship . no one but a fool thinks otherwise of them , saith celsus ; they are only books for the ignorant saith porphyrie , and the heathens in athanasius . they deny , in arnobius , that they ever thought their images to be gods , or to have any divinity in them , but what only comes from their consecration , to such an vse ; and in st. augustin , that they worshipped the images themselves , but through them they worshipped the deity ; maximus tyrius discourses largely on this subject , and shews , that images were but the signs of divine honour , and helps to remembrance . they are but symbols of the presence of the gods , saith iulian ; we do not think them gods , saith he , but that through them we may worship the deity ; for we being in the body , ought to perform our service in a way agreeable to it . and eusebius testifies in general of the heathens , that they did not look on their images as gods ; however some among them had an opinion of the gods being incorporated in them . i desire to know whether these men who worshipped images upon those grounds did amiss or no in it ? i do not ask whether they were mistaken as to the objects of their worship , but on supposition they were not , whether they were to blame in the manner of serving god by images in such a way as they describe ? if not , wherefore doth st. paul pitch upon that , to condemn them for , which they were not at all to blame in ? he ought to have done as the iesuits in china did , who never condemned the people for worshipping images , but for worshipping false gods by them ; and perswaded them not to lay them aside , but to convert them to the honour of the true god : and so melted down their former images , and made new ones of them . can we imagine st. paul meant the same thing , when he blames men not for believing them to be gods , but that god could be worshipped by the work of mens hands ; and for changing thereby the glory due to god in regard of his infinite and incorruptible being , into mean and unworthy images , thinking thereby to give honour to him . § . . and upon these grounds the primitive fathers disputed against the heathen idolatry ; for , the making use of corporeal representations makes the deity contemptible , saith clemens of alexandria . origen saith , that christians have nothing to do with images , because of the second commandment ; and on that account will rather dye , than defile themselves with them : and that it is impossible any one that knows god , should pray to them . that it is no sufficient excuse to say , they do not take them for gods , but only for symbols or representations of them , for they must be ignorant , mean , and unlearned persons , who can imagine the work of an artificer can be any representation of a deity . it would be too tedious at this time to transcribe all the invectives in the writings of the fathers upon this subject : where they dispute against the heathens from this argument , and do still suppose the force of the reason of this law , to oblige christians as much as ever it did the iews ; but i purposely forbear , only taking notice that after the worship of images came in , with the decay of the primitive pi●ty and learning in the eastern churches , yet the great defenders of them still declared their abhorrence of any representation of the divine nature . so germanus patriarch of constantinople in his epistles yet extant in the actions of that wise synod at nice ; we make , saith he , no kind of image , or similitude , or figure , or representation of the invisible deity ; and that the meaning of the commandment of the law against images was , that the divine nature was invisible and incomprehensible , and like to nothing we see , and that we ought not to entertain any corporeal conceptions of god. and damascen saith expresly , that it is the highest madness and impiety to go about to make an image of god : i. e. saith clichtovaeus , so as to think any image to be like unto god , or able perfectly to represent him to us ; which is likewise bellarmins answer : as though ever any men were such fools to believe an image could perfectly represent an infinite being ; or , that god need to make a law to forbid that , which is utterly impossible in the very nature of the thing ; he might more reasonably forbid men to paint a sound , to grasp all the air in the hollow of their hands , to drink up the ocean , to wear the sun for a pendant at their ears , or to make new worlds , than to command them not to make any image which should perfectly represent his nature : and yet of this kind of image alone of the true god , bellarmine understands the prohibition of the law , and the sayings before mentioned , but all other , he saith , were allowed by both , whether by way of history or analogical resemblance , or the fashion of a man wherein he hath appeared : i. e. all possible representations of god are allowed , and only that which is impossible forbidden . but this answer is not more weak and trifling , than contrary to the meaning of germanus , tharasius , or the rest of the nicene fathers , who do acknowledge , there was no ground to make any images with respect to the divine nature , till the incarnation of christ ; but since god appeared in humane nature , there is no incongruity in representing that by an image , and by that to give honour to the invisible godhead , as long as they preserve the true belief concerning the deity ; and consequently may honour god , by giving worship to the images of those saints whom they believe to be in heaven with god. § . . this is the substance of the doctrine of the second council of nice ; which they justifie by fabulous stories , and impertinent citations , and insufficient answers . for , when the fathers of the synod at constantinople had said , that christ came to deliver us from all idolatry , and to teach the worship of god in spirit and in truth ; they bravely answer , that then it is impossible for christians to fall into idolatry , because christs kingdom was alwayes to continue , and the gifts and graces of god are without repentance . which would as well hold against the prevalency of the turk , as idolatry among them . those fathers urge , that the devil now not being able to reduce the world to the former idolatry , endeavours under hand to introduce it , under a pretence of christianity , bringing them again to the worship of the creature , and making a god of a thing that is made , when they have called it by the name of christ. these answer , that it is true , the fathers used that argument against the arrians , who supposed christ to be a creature , and they grant that they were guilty of idolatry in giving divine worship to christ , when they believed him to be a creature ; but the difference lyes herein , that the arrians trusted in christ , and gave properly divine honour to him , which they say , they did not to the images , but only worshipped them for the sake of the object represented by them . but aquinas and his followers have at large proved , that where any thing is worshipped , meerly for the sake of another , it must have the same kind of worship given it , which they give to the thing represented by it : for as aquinas observes , the motion of the soul towards an image is twofold : either as it is a thing , or as it is an image : the first , he saith is distinct from that motion which respects the object ; but the second is the same ; so that to the image of christ , as made of wood or stone , no worship at all is given : and therefore it being given meerly on the account of its being an image , it necessarily follows , that the same worship must be given to the image , which is given to christ himself . and so they are in the same case with the arrians , whom they acknowledge to be idolaters ; notwithstanding their christianity , or that the gifts and graces of god are without repentance . besides the constantinopolitan fathers urge the great absurdity of making an image of christ , for worship ; because christ is god and man , therefore the image must be of god and man , which cannot be , unless the deity be circumscribed within the created flesh , or there be a confusion of both natures after their union , both which are blasphemies condemned by the church . the nicene fathers in answer to this yield , that the name christ is significative of both natures , and that an image can only represent the visible humane nature , and that it agrees only in name , and not in substance with the thing represented : and after many reviling expressions against their adversaries , ( no argument of the goodness of their cause ) they say , that if the divine nature were circumscribed within the humane nature in the cradle , and on the cross , then it is in an image , if not in one , neither is it in the other . but what doth this answer signifie , unless there be an equal presence and union of the divine nature of christ with the image , as there was with the humane nature ? which union , was the reason of the adoration given to the person of christ ; and what ground can there be then of giving divine worship to the image of christ , unless the same union be supposed ? if the humane nature without the union of the divine , could yield us no sufficient reason of divine worship being given to it , how much less can an image deserve it , which can only at the best represent but the external lineaments of that humane nature ? and if the divine nature be supposed united with the image , then the same divine honour is due to the image of christ , which is to god himself , which yet these nicene fathers deny : and the image then joyned with the divine nature , is as proper an object of divine worship without respect to any prototype , as the person of christ is consisting of the divine and humane nature . again , they urge , if the humane nature of christ be represented in the image of christ to be worshipped as separate from the divine , this would be plain nestorianism . to this the good nicene fathers , not knowing what to answer , plainly deny the conclusion , and cry , they nestorians ? no , they lye in their teeth ; they were no more nestorians than themselves , nor so much neither : and now , good men , they say , it is true , they do represent christ only by his humane nature in an image ; and when they look on images , they understand nothing but what is signified by them ; as when the birth of the virgin is represented , they conceive in their minds , that he who was born , was truly god as well as man. alas for them ! that they should ever be charged with the worship of images ! they plead for nothing now , but a help to their profound meditations by them . but the controversie was about worship , what ever they think ; and their adversaries argument did not lye in the images being considered as an object of perception , but of worship : i. e. if the image can only represent the humane nature of christ , as separate from the divine ; and in that respect be an object of worship to us , then the charge of nestorianism follows ; but this they very wisely pass by ; and their distinction of the image from the principal , cannot serve their turn , since the image receiving the worship due to the principal , must have not only the name , ( as they say ) but the reason of worship common with the principal which it represents . after this , the fathers of constantinople proceed to another argument , which is , that all the representation of christ allowed us by the gospel , is that which christ himself instituted , in the elements of the lords supper , whose use was to put us in remembrance of christ. no other figure or type being chosen by christ as able to represent his being in the flesh , but this . this was an honourable image of his quickning body , made by himself , say they ; which he would not have of the shape of a man to prevent idolatry ; but of a common nature , as he took upon him the common nature of man , and not any individuated person ; and as the body of christ was really sanctified by the divine nature ; so by institution this holy image is made divine through sanctification by grace . here the nicene council quarrels with them , for calling the eucharist an image , contrary , as they say , to the scriptures and fathers ; but they are as much to be believed therein , as in their admirable proofs , that the worship of images was the constant doctrine of the church ; and having strenuously denyed this , they suppose that to be enough to answer the argument . besides these particular arguments against the images of christ , the council of constantinople useth many more against the images of any other , because these being the chief , there can be less reason for any other besides , that there is no tradition of christ or his apostles , or the primitive fathers for them , no way of consecration of them prescribed or practised , no suitableness in the use of them to the design of christian religion , which being in the middle between iudaism and paganism , it casts off the sacrifices of the one , and not only the sacrifices , but all the idolatries of the other : and it is blasphemy to the saints in heaven , to call in the heathen superstitions into christianity , to honour them by : that it is unbecoming their glory in heaven , to be set up on earth in dull and sensless images ; that christ himself would not receive testimony from devils , though they spake truth ; neither can such a heathenish custome be acceptable to the saints in heaven though pretended to be for their honour . that nothing can be plainer in the gospel , than that god is a spirit , and will be worshipped in spirit and in truth ; to which nothing can be more contrary , than the going about to honour god by worshipping any image of himself , or his saints . these and many other arguments from the scriptures and fathers , that council insists upon , to shew the incongruity of the worship of images , to the nature of god , and the design of the christian religion ; to which the council of nice returns very weak and trivial answers , as shall more largely appear , if any one thinks good to defend them . and we have this apparent advantage on our side , that although the popes of rome sided with these worshippers of images , yet the council at francford condemned it , called together by charles the great : not out of misunderstanding their doctrine , as some vainly imagine ; because as vasquez well proves , the copy of the nicene council was sent to them by pope adrian , because the acts of that council were very well known to the author of the book written upon this subject under the name of charles the great , and published by du tillet at paris , about the middle of the last century ; which is acknowledged by their learnedst men to have been written at the same time ; because the popes legats theophylactus and stephanus were present , and might easily rectifie any mistake , if they were guilty of it ; and none of the historians of that time do take notice of any such error among them . but vasquez runs into another strange mistake himself , that the council of francford did not condemn that of nice , which is evident they did , expresly by the second canon of of that council published by sirmondus . and all the objections of vasquez are taken off by what sirmondus speaks , of the great authority and antiquity of that ms. from which he published them , and from the consent of the historians of that time , that the council of francford did reject that of nice : and sirmondus saith , they had good reason to deny it to be an oecumenical council , where only the greeks met together , and none of other provinces were called , or asked their opinion , and pope adrian himself , he saith , in his defence of it against the caroline books , never gives it the name or authority of an oecumenical council . the same council was rejected here in england , as our historians tell us , because it asserted the adoration of images , which the church of god abhors ; which are the words of hoveden and others . and we find afterwards in france by the synod of paris called by ludovicus pius upon the letters of michael balbus emperour of constantinople , in order to the vnion of christendome in this point , that these western churches persisted still in the condemnation of the nicene council which they would not have done after so long a time to inform themselves , if a meer mistake of their doctrine at first , had been the cause of their opposition . but whosoever will read the caroline books , or the synod of paris , or agobardus and others about that time , will find that they condemn all religious worship of images , as adoration ; and contrary to that honour which is due to god alone , and to the commands which he hath given in scripture . and i extreamly wonder how any men of common sense , and much more any of learning and judgement , that had read the book of charles the great against the nicene synod , could imagine it altogether proceeded upon a mistake of the meaning of it ; when it so distinctly relates and punctually answers the several places of scriptures and fathers produced by it for the worship of images . in the first book an answer is given to many impertinent places of the old testament alledged in that council ; which the second proceeds with , and examines several testimonies of the fathers ; and in the two remaining books pursues all their pretences with that diligence , that no one can imagine all this while that the author did not know their meaning . and that by adoration he means no more than giving religious worship to images appears from hence , because he calls the civil worship which men give to one another , by the name of adoration : when he shewes , that it is another thing to give adoration to a man upon a civil respect , and to give adoration to images upon a religious account , when god challenges all religious worship or adoration to himself : and whatever reason will hold for such a worship of images will much more hold for the worship of men , who have greater excellency in them , and more honour put upon them by god , than any images can ever pretend to . that god allows no other kind of adoration to be given to any but himself , but that which we give to one another . can any be so senseless to think , that by this civil adoration , he meant , we honoured every man we met as our soveraign prince ? and as little reason is there to say , that by adoration given to images , he meant only the incommunicable worship due only to god , in the sense of those fathers . can we imagine , saith he , that s. peter would allow the worship of images , who forbad cornelius to worship him ? or st. john whom the angel checked for offering to worship him , and bid him give that honour to god ? or paul and barnabas , who with such horror ran among the men of lycaonia when they were about to worship them ; and yet , surely angels and such persons as these deserved more to be worshipped than any images can do . but we see by these examples , that even these are not to be adored with any other kind of adoration , than what the offices of civility require from us . besides in his language those who followed the council of constantinople are said , not to adore images , by which nothing else can be meant , than their giving no religious worship to them ; and when he shews the great inconsequence of the argument from the adoration of the statues of the emperours to the adoration of images , because in matters of religious worship we are not to follow the customes of men against the will of god ; he thereby shews what kind of adoration he intended , not the worship of latria , but supposed to be of an inferiour sort . in so much , that binius confesseth , that the design of these books was against all worship of images . it is true pope hadrian in the answer he sent to these books which is still extant in the tomes of the councils doth deny , that the synod intended to give proper divine worship to images ; but that is no more than the synod it self had in words said before ; but that was not the question what they said , but what the nature of the thing did imply ? whether that religious worship they gave to images was not part of that adoration which was only due to god ? and he that expects an answer to this from him , will find himself deceived ; who is so pitifully put to it for an answer to the demand of any example of words of the apostles to justifie image-worship , that he is forced to make use of some mystical passages of dionysius the supposed areopagite , wherein the word image hapning to be , is very sufficient to his purpose . and this answer of hadrians gave so little satisfaction to the western bishops , that a.d. . the synod at paris being called by ludovicus pius to advise about this point , did condemn expressely pope hadrian for asserting a superstitious adoration of images ; which they look on as a great impiety : and say that he produces very impertinent places of the fathers , and remote from his purpose ; and that setting aside his pontifical authority in his answer to the caroline books , there were some things apparently false : and they have nothing to excuse him by , but his ignorance . and therefore they at large shew , that the religious worship of images came first from hereticks ; and that it was alwayes condemned by the fathers of the christian church : and answer the arguments produced on the other side out of the writings of the fathers . and supposing that superstitious custome of worshipping images , had for some time obtained , yet they shew by several testimonies , that it ought to be abrogated . no wonder then that bellarmine is so much displeased with this synod , for offering so boldly to censure the popes writings , and a synod approved by him : wherein the saith , they exceed the fault of the author of the caroline books : because , as he confesseth , they offered to teach the pope , and resisted him to the face . and yet , no doubt , they had read and considered hadrians words , wherein he disowns the giveing true divine honour to images . not long after this synod came forth the book of agobardus archbishop of lyons against images , occasioned saith papirius massonus , by the stupendous superstition in that age in the worship of them . and this , saith he , is the substance of his doctrine out of st. augustine and other fathers , that there is no other image of god , but what is himself , and therefore cannot be painted , and he ought not to be worshipped in any image , but what he hath prescribed us to worship , which is christ ; that adoration is external or internal ; that , both of them are called religion , by which we are bound eternally to god , and only to him : from whence it follows , that neither angels nor saints are to be worshipped by any religious worship : for this is the law of adoration , that no creature , no phantasm of god in our minds , no work of mens hands ought to be worshipped : for if gods creatures are not to be worshipped , much less ours , such as images of god , angels and saints are . neither is it enough to say , that they do not worship the image , but the thing represented ; for the object terminates the worship , and it is a deceit of the devil under the pretence of honouring the saints , to bring mens minds to idols , and from the true god to carnal things : that images are to be used only for shew and memory , and not at all for religion ; that god alone is to be worshipped with all religious worship , whether called latria or doulia , or what name soever , and for the casting away all superstition , that no images be painted in churches , no statues erected , nor accounted holy , that the true god may be worshipped alone , for ever . this is the abstract of his doctrine delivered by massonus , whose other writings shew he was far from being partial towards the reformation . and the book it self is lately published by baluzius again , where any one may easily satisfie himself concerning fidelity . but baluzius very honestly tells us , some have suspected this book not to be very catholick : and therefore it was censured by baronius and the spanish index ; yet he ingenuously confesseth , he saith no more than the whole gallican church believed in that age. what that was , i have already shewed . this i have the larger insisted upon , to shew , that it is no new thing for us to plead for all religious worship being appropriated to god , and that the command against image-worship was no ceremonial law respecting meerly the iews , but that the reason of it doth extend to all ages and nations , and especially to us who live under the gospel . from all which it follows , that it was not meerly the heathen idolatry which was forbidden by god , nor barely to prevent their falling to that by degrees , but the giving to himself such a worship ; which he judges so unworthy of him . § . . . from those who were best able to understand the meaning of it . we can imagine none so competent a judge of the meaning of a law , as the giver of it , and what he afterwards declares to be the sense of this law. the first occasion given for knowing the meaning of the law concerning images , was not long after the making of it , when upon moses his absence , they compelled aaron to make them a golden calf , exod. . . here was an image made contrary to the law , as is on all sides acknowledged ; but the question is , whether by this the israelites did fall into the heathen idolatry , or only worship the true god under that symbol of his presence ? that they did not herein fall back to the heathen idolatry , i thus prove : . from the occasion of it , which was not upon the least pretence of infidelity as to the true god , or that they had now better reason given them for the worship of other gods besides him ; but all they say , was , that moses had been so long absent , they knew not what was become of him , and therefore they say to aaron , make us gods ( or a god , as in nehem. . . ) to go before us . we cannot imagine the people so sottish ; to desire aaron to make them a god in the proper sense , as though they could believe the calf newly made , to have been the god , which before it was made , brought them out of the land of aegypt as they say afterwards , v. . but it must be understood as the symbol of that god which did bring them from thence : the controversie then lyes here , whether they thought the aegyptian gods delivered them out of aegypt , while they forsook all their own worshippers , to preserve those who were so great enemies to them , that their very way of worship was an abomination to all the aegyptians , exod , . . and whether they could think the gods of aegypt had wrought all the miracles for them in their deliverance and after it ? whether they appeared not long before on mount sinai , and delivered the law to them ? or , whether it were not the true god they meant , who had made that the preface to his laws , i am the god that brought thee out of the land of aegypt ; to whom they intended still to give honour : but the only question was concerning the symbol of his presence , that was to go before them . for which , we are to consider , that immediately before moses his going up into the mount , the last promise god made to them was , that he would send his angel before them , exod. . , . which is elsewhere called his presence , exod. . . moreover , they understood that there should be some extraordinary symbol of this presence ; but what it was , they could not tell ; for moses was then gone into the mount to learn : but he not being heard of in forty dayes , they took it for granted , he was not to be heard of more ; therefore they fall upon devising among themselves what was the fittest symbol for the presence of god going before them ; and herein the greatest number being possessed with the prejudices of their education in aegypt , where golden bulls were the symbols of their chief god osiris , they pitch upon that , and force aaron to a complyance with them in it . . there is no intimation given in the whole story , that they fell into the heathen idolatry ; for when afterwards they fell into it , the particular names of the gods are mentioned , as baal-peor , moloch , remphan . numb . . . acts . . but here , on the contrary , aaron expresly proclaims a feast to the lord , exod. . . and the people accordingly met and offered their accustomed offerings , v. . whereas if it had been the aegyptian idolatry , their common sacrifices were abominations , they must not have sacrificed sheep and oxen , as they were wont to do . and that it was not the idolatry of other nations , who worshipped the host of heaven , is plain from st. stephens words , acts . , . and they made a calf in those dayes , and offered sacrifice unto idols , and rejoyced in the works of their own hands ; then god turned and gave them up to worship the host of heaven . whereby it is both observable that the idolatry of the calf was distinct from the other heathen idolatry , this being a punishment of the other ; and withal though the calf was intended by them , to be only a symbol of gods presence , yet being directly against gods command , and having divine worship given it , it is by s. stephen called an idol ; and to the same purpose the psalmist speaks , they made a calf in horeb , and worshipped the molten image ; thus they changed their glory ( or rather his ) into the similitude of an oxe that eateth grass , psal. . , . which certainly was idolatry as well as that st. paul charges the romans with , viz. that they changed the glory of the incorruptible god into an image made like to corruptible man , and to birds , and four footed beasts , and creeping things , rom. . . and we see how highly god was displeased with the israelites for this sin of the golden calf , exod. . , , , . the same may be said of the two calves of ieroboam at dan and bethel ; for it was neither agreeable to his end , nor so likely to succeed , to take the ten tribes off from the worship of the true god ; but only from the place of it at hierusalem , and the occasion of the kingdomes coming to him was from solomons falling to heathen idolatry , king. . . which would make him more cautious of falling into it , especially at his first entrance : and when the gods of other nations are mentioned , they are particularly described , as ashtoreth of the zidonians , chemosh of the moabites , and milcom of the children of ammon , kings . . and in ahabs idolatry , the occasion and description of it is given , kings . . but of ieroboam it is only said that he set up the calves at dan and bethel , and said unto the people , it is too much for you to go up to hierusalem , behold thy gods o israel which brought thee up out of the land of aegypt , kings . , . how easie had it been to have said that ieroboam worshipped the gods of aegypt if that had been his intention ! but , how much better had he then argued , that they had been hitherto in a great mistake concerning the true god , and not meerly as to the place of his worship , which is all he speaks against : for he continued the same feasts and way of worship , which were at hierusalem , king. . . besides , how comes the sin of ahab to be so much greater than that of ieroboam , if they were both guilty of the same apostasie to heathen idolatry , kings . . ? how came the worship of the true god in the ten tribes to be set in opposition to heathen idolatry , kings . ? how comes iehu at the same time , to boast his zeal for his lord , when it is said of him , that he departed not from the sins of jeroboam , viz. the golden calves of dan and bethel , kings . , ? lastly , how comes the worship of the true god to be preserved in the ten tribes after their captivity , when they still continued their separation in religion , from the kingdom of iudah , kings . ? for , certainly , if the samaritans had only desired information concerning the worship of the god of israel after the way of hierusalem , they would have sent only thither for it ; but because they sent into the land of their captivity , for a priest to be sent to them ; it is plain the former differences still continued , and yet it is said he taught them to fear the lord. and notwithstanding it be thus evident that ieroboam did not fall then into heathen idolatry , yet we see that he is charged with idolatry in scripture ; for it is said , that he had done evil above all that were before him , and had gone and made him other gods and molten images to provoke god to anger , and had cast him behind his back , kings . . from whence it necessarily follows , that if god may be allowed to interpret his own law , the worshipping of images though designed for his honour is idolatry . and since the lawgiver hath thus interpreted his own law , we need not be solicitous about the sense of any others ; yet herein we have the concurrence of the iewish and christian church : the iews have thought the prohibition to extend to all kinds of images for worship , and almost all for ornament : and the image worship of the church of rome is one of the great scandals to this day which hinder them from embracing christianity . the primitive christians were declared enemies to all worship of god by images ; but i need the less to go about to prove it now , since it is at last consessed by one of the most learned iesuites they ever had , that , for the four first centuries and further there was little or no use of images in the temples or oratories of christians ; but we need not their favour in so plain a cause as this ; as shall be evidently proved if occasion be farther given . and against my adversaries opinion , that the second command only forbids the worship of idols , we have the consent of some of the most learned writers of his own church against him : for vasquez acknowledgeth , that it is plain in scripture that god did not only forbid that in the second command , which was unlawful by the law of nature , as the worshipping an image for god , but the worshipping of the true god by any similitude of him , and he reckons up many others of the same opinion with him of great estimation in the roman church . § . . but we must now consider what he further produces for his opinion , he therefore saith , if st. austins judgement be to be followed , the second commandment is but a part or explication of the first . but why doth he not tell us whether st. austins judgement be to be followed or no , if it be of so much consequence to the resolving of this controversie ? nay how is he sure this was st. austins constant judgement ; since in his latter writings , he reckons up the commandments as others of the fathers had done before him ? but if st. austins judgement were to be followed in this ? doth it thence follow that this commandment must be only against idols ? no , but that all things concerning the worship of god must be in one command and so they may be , and yet be as full against image worship , as in two : so , that no relief is to be had from hence . and as little from his distinction of an inferiour and relative honour only which is given by them ( he saith ) to the sacred images of christ and his b. mother and saints , and that which they call latria or worship due to god ; the former he saith is only honorary adoration expressed by putting off our hats , kissing them or kneeling before them . which is just as if an unchaste wife should plead in her excuse to her husband , that the person she was too kind with , was extreamly like him , and a near friend of his , and that it was out of respect to him that she gave him the honour of his bed ; can any one think that such an excuse as this would be taken by a jealous husband ? how much less will such like pretences avail with that god who hath declared himself particularly jealous of his honour , in this command above others , and that he will not give his glory to another ; but hath reserved all divine worship as peculiar to himself ; and no such fond excuses of relative , inferiour , and improper worship will serve , when they encroach upon his prerogative . it was well observed by a very learned bishop of our church , that such kind of distinctions so applyed are like the dispute among some of the church of rome in scotland , whether the lords prayer might be used to saints or no , and it was well resolved and very subtilly , that ultimately , principally , primarily and strictly they might not ; but secondarily , less principally and largely or relatively they might . the same would certainly hold for images too . and i wonder very much they stick at any kind of worship to be done to images ; for my own part , were i of their mind , i should as little scruple offering up the host to an image , as saying my prayers to it ; and i should think my self hardly dealt with if i did not come off with the same distinctions . for if i do it to god absolutely and for himself , and to the image only improperly and relatively , wherein i am to blame ? i cannot understand if the image have the honorary adoration as he calls it given to it , only with a respect to what is represented by it , but i may give the same kind of worship to the image which i do to the prototype : and that , upon the rule he quotes from st. basil ( although he uses it quite upon another occasion , as if he looks upon the place he may see ) that the worship of the image is carryed to the prototype or thing represented . i desire therefore seriously to know of him , whether any worship doth at all belong to the image or no ? if none at all , to what end are they kneeled before , and kissed , which if the images had any sense in them , would think was done to them ? and why doth the council of trent determine that due worship is to be given them ? if there be any due , whether it be the same then is given to the prototype , or distinct from it ? if it be the same then proper divine worship is given to the image ; if distinct then the image is worshipped with divine worship for it self , and not relatively and subordinately , as he speaks . i know , madam , when any thing pincheth them , they cry presently these are disputes of the schools , and niceties too deep for you to be able to judge of ; but i assure you some of the best learned among them , have determined which side soever you take you fall into idolatry ; and i hope that is no scholastick nicety with you . i shall endeavour to give you their sense as plainly as i can . bellarmin saith , that no image is to be worshipped properly with that worship which the thing represented is worshipped by ; for latria , ( as he calls it ) is a worship proper to god ; but no image upon account of relation , or any other way is god ; therefore that worship doth not belong to it . it may be saith he , some will say , that latria is a worship proper to god , when it is given for it self , and not for another , ( or relatively . ) i answer , that it is of the nature of latria , ( or divine worship , ) to be given for it self : for , that is the worship , which is due to the true god as the first principle of all things , and it implyes a contradiction for the highest worship to be given to the first principle and relatively or for another ; and therefore this worship is given to the image for it self , which is plain idolatry , or else it is not given for it self , and then it is not latria or properly divine worship . again , either the divine worship , or latria , which is given to the image relatively for another is the same with that which is given to god , or an inferiour worship ; if it be the same , the creature is equally worshipped with god , which certainly is idolatry ; for idolatry , saith he , is not only when god is forsaken , and an idol worshipped ; but when an idol is worshipped together with god. if it be an inferiour worship , then it is not latria , for that is the highest worship . thus far bellarmin ; on the other side vasquez a iesuite , a man of great reputation too , and of as searching a wit as bellarmin , he saith , that it an inferiour worship be given to the image , distinct from that which is given to the thing represented , he that so gives it incurres the crime of idolatry ; for he expresseth his submission to a meer inanimate thing , that hath no kind of excellency to deserve it from him . by which we see that it is in mens choice what sort of idolatry they will commit , who worship images ; but in neither way they can avoid it . § . . but yet he thinks to escape by some parallel instances , as he fancies them ; such as , the honour given to the chair of state , or the kings picture or garment , moses and joshua's putting off their shooes because it was holy ground , the iews falling down before gods footstool , and worshipping the holy of holies , where were the cherubims , propitiatory , and ark , protestants bowing at the name of iesus , or kneeling at the eucharist , and bowing before the altar ; from these he thinks he hath sufficiently cleared , that inferiour and relative worship which they give to images . to which i answer , . to that of the chair of state ; that our dispute is not concerning civil worship , but divine ; and as to civil worship ; i suppose he would not say that were any honour to the king in case he had absolutely forbidden it , as we have proved god hath done in the case of images . . to the putting off the shooes upon holy ground : ( . ) that we think there is some little difference to be made between what god hath commanded , and what he hath forbidden ; for in the case of moses and ioshua , there was an express command , exod. . . josh. . . but in the case of image worship there is as plain a prohibition . ( . ) that the special presence and appearance of god doth sanctifie a place to so high a degree , that we may lawfully testifie our reverence towards it ; but this will not hold for images , unless god be proved present in them in the same manner as he appeared to moses and ioshua , and yet even then the reverence he required , was not kissing it , or bowing to it , much less praying to it , but only putting off their shooes . ( . ) if these things had been done towards the ground , the danger had not been so great as to images , because the ground had nothing of representation in it , but was only sacred by divine consecration ; and therefore it could not pretend to be any similitude of god. but in images there is nothing sacred , but being an image , and so the representation is that , which gives all the excellency and value to it ; and therefore the reverence of holy places and things , is of quite a different nature from the worship of images . . to the iewes adora●ion towards the ark and the holy of holies , where the cherubims and propitiatory were : ( . ) that they only directed their worship towards the place , where god had promised to be signally present among them ; and signifies no more to the worship of images than our lifting our eyes to heaven , doth when we pray , because god is more especially present there . ( . ) that though the cherubims were there , yet they were alwayes hid from the sight of the people , the high-priest himself going into the holy of holies but once a year ; that the cherubims were no representations of god ; and his throne was between them upon the mercy seat ; and were hieroglyphical figures of gods own appointing which the iews know no more than we do : which are plain arguments they were never intended for objects of worship ; for then they must not have been meerly appendices to another thing , they must have been publickly exposed , as the images are in the roman churches , and their form as well known as any of the b. virgin. . to bowing at the name of iesus ; that he might as well have instanced in going to church at the toll of a bell , for as the one only tells us the time when we ought to go to worship god ; so the mentioning the name of iesus doth only put us in mind of him we owe all manner of reverence to , without dishonouring him as the object of our worship , by any image of him , which can only represent that which is neither the object nor reason of our worship . . to kneeling at the eucharist , that of all things should not be objected to us , who have declared in our rubrick after communion , that thereby no adoration is intended or ought to be done either unto the sacramental bread and wine , there bodily received or any corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood ; for the sacramental bread and wine remain still in their very natural substances ▪ and therefore may not be adored ; for that were idolatry to be abhorred of all faithful christians . to bowing towards the altar , or at entring in and going out of the church , that it is of the same nature with the putting off our hats , while we are there ; and is only determining a natural act of reverence , that way which the ancient christians did use to direct their worship . chap. ii. of their idolatry in adoration of the host and invocation of saints . the argument proposed concerning the adoration of the host ; the insufficiency of the answer to it manifested : supposing equal revelation for transubstantiation as for christs divinity , yet not the same reason for worshipping the host as the person of christ ; the great disparity between these two at large discovered ; the controversie truly stated concerning adoration of the host : and it is proved , that no man on the principles of the roman church can be secure he doth not commit idolatry in it . the confession of our adversaries , that the same principles will justifie the worship of any creature . no such motives to believe transubstantiation as the divinity of christ. bishop taylor 's testimony answered by himself . to worship christ in the sun as lawful as to worship him in the host. the grossest idolatry excusable on the same grounds . the argument proposed and vindicated concerning the invocation of saints practised in the church of rome . the fathers arguments against the heathens hold against invocation of saints ; the state of the controversie about idolatry as managed by them . they make it wholly unlawful to give divine worship to any creature how excellent soever . the worship not only of heathen gods , but of angels condemned . the common evasions answered . prayer more proper to god than sacrifice . no such disparity as is pretended between the manner of invocating saints and the heathens invocating their deities . in the church of rome , they do more than pray to saints to pray for them , proved from the present most authentick breviaries . supposing that were all , it would not excuse them . st. austin no friend to invocation of saints . practices condemned by the church pleaded for it . of negative points being articles of faith . § . . i proceeded to the adoration of the host ; and here the argument i proposed , was , to take off the common answer , that this could not be idolatry because they believed the bread to be god , upon the same ground , i said , they who believe the sun to be god and worship him on that account would be excused from idolatry too , nay the grosser their idolatry was , the more excusable it would be , as that of those who supposed their images to be gods , and upon this ground their worship was more lawful than of those who supposed them not to be so . to this he answers two wayes ; . that they do not barely suppose that the substance of bread is changed into christs body , and that he is really present under the form of bread , but that they know and believe this upon the same grounds and motives upon which they believe that christ is god , and consequently to be adored ; and further addes , that the same argument will hold against the adoration of christ as god , as against the adoration of him in the eucharist , since they have a like divine revelation for his real presence under the sacramental signes , as for his being true god and man. . supposing they were mistaken , yet it would not follow they were idolaters , which he proves from dr. taylors words . but notwithstanding these appearances of answering , that my argument still stands good , will be evident by proving these things . . that supposing there were the same revelation of christs divinity , and of his presence in the eucharist by transubstantiation , yet there could not be the same reason for the adoration of the host , as for worshipping christ himself . . that there are not the same motives and grounds to believe that doctrine of transubstantiatim , that there are to believe that christ is god. . that supposing they are mistaken in the doctrine of transubstantiation , this doth not excuse them from idolatry . . that the same reason which would excuse them , would excuse the most gross idolaters in the world. § . ● . that supposing there were the same divine revelation of transubstantiation and of christs divinity , yet there could not be the same reason for adoration of the host as of christ himself . . because there is a plain command in scripture for one , and there is nothing like it for the other . all the angels are commanded to worship the son of god , heb. . . and much more all men who have greater obligation to do it . all men are to honour the son as they honour the father , joh. . . and to his name every knee is to bow , phil. . . but where is there the least intimation given that we are to worship christ in the elements , supposing him present there ? if it be said , the general command doth extend to him where-ever he is present , it is easily answered that this argument doth prove no more his worship in the elements , than in a turfe , or any other piece of bread ; for christ being god is every where present ; and if his presence only may be ground of giving adoration to that wherein he is present , we may as lawfully worship the sun , or the earth or any other thing , as they do the sacrament . for he is present in all of them . but our worship is not to be guided by our own fancies , but the will of god ; and we have a command for worshipping of the person of christ , and till we see one as to his presence in the sacrament , we ought not to think the one parallel with the other . and by this the weakness of his retorting the argument in the arrians behalf ( so he calls those who believe christ to be a pure man ) against those who worship the son of god will appear : for our worship doth not meerly depend upon our belief but upon the divine command ; and therefore those who have denyed the one , have yet contended for the other . . the one gives us a sufficient reason for our worship , but the other doth not : there can be no greater reason for giving his person adoration than that he is the eternal son of god ; but what equivalent reason to this is there , supposing the bread to be really converted into the body of christ ? all that i can believe then present is the body of christ ; and what then ? is that the object of our adoration ? do we terminate our worship upon his humane nature ? and was it ever more properly so than in dying ? is it not the death of christ that is set forth in the eucharist ? and is his body present any other way than as it is agreeable to the end of the institution ? but it may be they will say , the body of christ being hypostatically united with the divine nature , one cannot be present without the other . that indeed is a good argument to prove the body of christ cannot be there by transubstantiation : for if the bread be converted into that body of christ which is hypostatically united with the divine nature , then the conversion is not meerly into the body but into the person of christ , and then christ hath as many bodies hypostatically united to him , as there are elements consecrated , and so all the accidents of the bread belong to that body of christ which is hypostatically united with the divine nature . nay to make the elements the object of divine worship as they do ; they must suppose an hypostatical union between them and the divine nature of christ ; for if the only reason of joyning the humane nature with the divine in the person of christ as the object of our worship , be the hypostatical union of those natures ; then we can upon no other account make those elements the object of worship , but by supposing such an union between christ and them . but i suppose they will not venture to say , that christ is hypostatically united with the shape , figure and colour of the bread : for they will have nothing else to remain after consecration ( in spight of all the reason and sense of the world ) but meerly those accidents ; and the council of trent determines that the same divine worship which we give to god himself , is in express terms to be given to the most holy sacrament , and pronounces an anathema against all who deny it . and what is the holy sacrament but the body of christ , according to them under the accidents of the bread ; and although the body of christ being believed to be there is the reason of their worship , yet the worship is given to the elements upon that account . § . . but this being a matter of so great importance , to make it as clear as the nature of the thing will allow , i shall yet further prove , that , upon the principles of the roman church , no man can be assured that he doth not commit idolatry every time he gives adoration to the host : and i hope this will abundantly add to the discovering the disparity between the worship given to the person of christ , and that which is given to the eucharist upon supposition of transubstantiation . but before i come to this , i shall endeavour to give a true account of the state of the controversie between us : which i shall do in these particulars . . the question between us is not , whether the person of christ , is to be worshipped with divine worship ; for that we freely acknowledge . and although the humane nature of christ , of it self , can yield us no sufficient reason for adoration , yet being considered as united to the divine nature , that cannot hinder the same divine worship being given to his person , which belongs to his divine nature ; any more than the robes of a prince , can take off from the honour due unto him . . it is not , whether the person of christ , visibly appearing to us in any place , ought to have divine honour given to him ? for supposing sufficient evidence of such an appearance , we make no more question of this , than we do of the former . neither do we say , that we need a particular command in such a case to make it lawful ; any more than the patriarchs did at every appearance of god among them ; or those who conversed with our lord on earth , every time they fell down and worshipped him . where our sense and reason is satisfied as well as st. thomas his was in a visible appearance of christ , we can give divine worship as he did when he said , my lord and my god ; for in this worship given to the person of christ , i am sure i give it to nothing , but what is either god or hypostatically united to the divine nature : but is there not the same reason of believing christ to be present as seeing him ? i answer , in matters of pure revelation there is , where the matter proposed to our faith can be no object of sense ; as christs infinite presence in all places as god , i firmly believe upon the credit of divine revelation , and i give divine worship to him as god suitable to that infinite presence ; but our question is , concerning the visible presence of christ , where honour is given on the account of the divine nature , but he can be known to be present only by his humanity , in this case i say , the evidence of sense is necessary in order to the true worshipping the person of christ. if any should be so impertinent to urge that saying to this purpose , blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed , i shall only say , that doth not at all relate to this matter , but to the truth of christs resurrection . . it is not , concerning the spiritual worship of christ , in the celebration of the eucharist : for we declare that in all solemn acts of religious worship , and particularly in the eucharist we give divine honour to the son of god , as well as to the father . we affirm that we ought not only perform the offices of religion out of obedience to his divine commands , but with a due veneration of his majesty and power , with thankfulness for his infinite goodness , and with trust in his promises , and subjection of our souls to his supream authority . about these things which are the main parts of divine and spiritual worship we have no quarrel , nor do we find fault with any for giving too much to christ in this manner ; but rather for placing too much in the bare external acts of adoration , which may be performed with all external pomp and shew , where there is no inward reverence nor sincere devotion . and yet , . it is not , concerning external reverence to be shewn in the time of receiving the eucharist : for that our church not only allowes but enjoynes , and that not barely for the avoiding such profanation and disorder in the holy communion as might otherwise ensue , but for a signification of our humble and grateful acknowledgement of the benefit of christ therein given to all worthy receivers . but it is withall declared , that thereby no adoration is intended or ought to be done either unto the sacramental bread and wine there bodily received , or unto any corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood ; as i have already recited it . but the controversie concerning the adoration of the host lyes in these two things . . whether proper divine worship in the time of receiving the eucharist may be given to the elements on the account of a corporal presence of christ under them ? . whether out of the time of receiving , the same adoration ought to be given to it , when it is elevated or carried in procession , which we would give to the very person of christ ? and that this is the true state of the controversie , i appeal to the doctrine and practice of the roman church in this point . for it is expresly determined by the council of trent , that there is no manner of doubt left , but that all christians ought to give the same worship to this holy sacrament which they give to god himself . for it is not therefore less to be worshipped because it was instituted by christ our lord that it might be taken . by which words the true state of the controversie is made evident , which is not about the reverence due only to christ , supposed to be corporally present there , but the adoration due to the sacrament upon that account . and by the sacrament the council must understand the elements or accidents ( or whatever name they call them by ) as the immediate term of that divine worship , or else the latter words signifie nothing at all . for what was that , which was instituted by our lord as a sacrament ? was it not the external and visible signes or elements ? why do they urge , that the sacrament ought not the less to be adored because it was to be taken , but to take off the common objection that we ought not to give divine worship to that which we eat ? and what can this have respect to but the elements ? but this is not denyed , that i know of , by any who understand either the doctrine or practice of that church ; although to answer our arguments they would seem to direct their worship only to christ as present under the elements , yet yielding that on the account of this corporal presence , that which appears , ought to have the same worship given to it , with that which is supposed or believed . and so they make the accidents of the sacrament to have the very same honour which the humane nature of christ hath , which they say hath no divine honour for it self , but on the account of the conjunction of the divinity with it . § . . the controversie being thus stated i come to shew that upon the principles of the roman church , no man can be assured that he doth not commit idolatry every time he gives adoration to the host. for it is a principle indisputable among them , that to give proper divine honour , called by them adoration , to a creature is idolatry ; but no man upon the principles of their church can be assured every time he worships the host , that he doth not give proper divine honour to a creature . for there are two things absolutely necessary to secure a mans mind in the performance of an act of divine worship . . that either the object be such in it self , which deserves and requires such worship from us as in the divine nature of christ : or , . that if of it self , it doth not deserve it , there be a reason sufficient to give it ; as is the humane nature of christ upon its union with the divine : but in this matter of the adoration of the host no man can be secure of either of these upon their own principles . . he cannot be secure that the object is such as doth deserve divine worship . if a man should chance to believe his senses , or hearken to his reason , or at least think the matter disputable , whether that which he sees to be bread , be not really bread , what case is this man in ? he becomes an idolater by not being a fool or a mad man. but because we are not now to proceed upon the principles of sense or reason , but those of the church of rome ; i will suppose the case of one that goes firmly upon the received principles of it , and try whether such a one can be satisfied in his mind , that when he gives divine worship to the host , he doth not give it to a creature . and because we are now supposing unreasonable things , i will suppose my self to be that person . the mass-bell now rings , and i must give the same divine honour to the host , which i do to christ himself : but hold , if it should be but a meer creature , all the world cannot excuse me from idolatry , and my own church condemns me , all agreeing that this is gross idolatry ; how come i then to be assured , that what but a little before was a meer creature , is upon the pronouncing a few words turned into my creator . a strange and sudden change ! and i can hardly say , that god becoming man was so great a wonder , as a little piece of bread becoming god. when god became man , he shewed himself to be god , by wonders and miracles which he wrought for the conviction of the world : i will see , if i can find any such evidence of so wonderful a transformation from a wafer to a deity . i see it to be the very same it was , i handle it as i did , if i taste it , it hath the very same agreeableness to the palat it had : where then lyes this mighty change ? but o carnal reason , what have i to do with thee in these mysteries of faith ! i remember what church i am of , and how much i am bid to beware of thee : but how then shall i be satisfied ? must i relye on the bare words of christ , this is my body ? but i have been told , the scripture is very obscure and dangerous for me to be too confident of the sense of it . i have heard some wise men of our church have said , that these words may bear a figurative sense , like that rock was christ , and that if there were no other evidence for transubstantiation , but what the scripture gives , there were no reason to make it an article of faith . i have heard the great names of scotus , aliaco , biel , fisher , cajctan , canus and others quoted to this purpose , and their testimonies produced . what a case am i in then , if those words do not prove it ? now i think better of it , i must trust the church for the sense of scripture ; and if i be not strangely mistaken , i am sworn to interpret scripture according to the unanimous consent of the fathers : but alas , what relief is this to my anxious mind ? this is a thing i am to do or not to do almost every day , and to be resolved of it , i am put to a task which will hold me all my life time : and may be as unsatisfied at last as i am now . for i see the world is full of disputes concerning the sense of their words as well as the scriptures : one saith , that a father by a figure means a substance , and that another by a substance means a figure ; one man sayes his adversaries authorities are counterfeit , and another sayes the same of his : one quotes the saying of an heretick for the orthodox ; and another makes it appear , that if he spake his own mind , he must contradict himself and others of the fathers . one produces a pope confirming the doctrine of transubstantiation , and another as plain a testimony of a pope of greater antiquity and more learning overthrowing it . one appeals to the first ages of the church , another to the latest : one saith , the fathers spake rhetorically , and another , dogmatically . one , that they loved to talk mystically , and another , that they spake differently about this matter . in this great confusion what ground of certainty have i to stand upon , whereby to secure my mind from commission of a great sin ? i am sure if i live in wilful sin all my dayes , i shall be damned ; but god hath never told me , if i do not study the fathers all my life , i shall be damned . it is satisfaction i desire , and that i am not like to have this way , when i see men of greater wit , and subtlety , and judgement , than ever i am like to come to , are still disputing about the sense of the fathers in this point : witness the late heats in france about it . while i am in this labyrinth a kind priest offers to give me ease , and tells me , these are doubts and scruples i ought not to trouble my self about , the authority of the present church is sufficient for me : i thank him for his kindness , only desiring to know , what he means by the authority of the present church : for i find we catholicks are not agreed about that neither . may i be sure if the pope who is head of the church say it ? no , not unless he defines it : but may i be sure then ? no , not unless a general council concur : but may i be sure , if a general council determines it ? yes , if it be confirmed wholly by the pope , and doth proceed in the way of a council : but how is it possible for me to judge of that , when the intrigues of actions are so secret ? i see then , if this be the only way of satisfaction , i must forbear giving adoration , or be guilty of idolatry in doing it . but suppose i am satisfied in the point of transubstantiation , it is not enough for me to know in general , that there is such a change ; but i must believe particularly that very bread to be changed so , which i am now to worship , and by what means can i be sure of that ? for my church tells me , that it is necessary that he be a priest that consecrates , and that he had an intention of consecrating that very bread which i am to adore . but what if it should come to pass after many consecrations , that such a person prove no priest , because not rightly baptized ; ( which is no unheard of thing ) what became of all their actions who worshipped every host he pretended to consecrate ? they must be guilty of idolatry every mass he celebrated . but how is it possible for me to be sure of his priesthood , unless i could be sure of the intention of the bishop that ordained him , and the priest that baptized him ? which it is impossible for me to be . yet suppose i were sure he was a priest , what assurance have i , that he had an intention to consecrate that very wafer which i am to adore ? if there were thirteen , and he had an intention to consecrate only twelve , if i worship the thirteenth , i give divine honour to a meer creature ; for without the intention of the priest in consecration , it can be nothing else ; and then i am guilty of downright idolatry . so that upon the principles of the roman church no man can be satisfied , that he doth not worship a meer creature with divine honour , when he gives adoration to the host. . no man can be satisfied that he hath sufficient reason for giving this worship to the host. for which we must consider , what suppositions the adoration of the host depends upon , if any of which prove uncertain , i am in as bad a case as i was before . i first suppose , that the bread being really and substantially changed into that very body of christ which was crucified at hierusalem , i ought to give the same honour to that body of christ in the sacrament , which i am to give to the person of christ as god and man , and that the body of christ being present in the sacrament , i may on the account of that presence give the same honour to the sacrament , in which he is present . but if it prove uncertain , whether the humane nature of christ as conjoyned to the divine nature be capable of receiving proper divine worship , then it must be much more so , whether the body of christ as present in the sacrament be so ? but granting that , it may be yet uncertain , whether i ought to give the same honour to the visible part of the sacrament , which i do to the humanity of christ ; for though christ may be present there , his presence doth not make the things wherein he is present , capable of the same divine honour with himself . now that these things are uncertain upon their own principles , i now make appear . i find it generally agreed by the doctors of the roman church , that the humane nature of christ , considered alone , ought not to have divine honour given to it ; and i find it hotly disputed among them , whether christs humane nature though united to the divine , ought , abstractly considered , to have any true divine honour given it ; and those who deny it , make use of this substantial argument , proper divine honour is due only to god , but the humane nature of christ is not god , and therefore that honour ought not to be given it : and i am further told by them , that the church hath never determined this controversie . let me now apply this to our present case : it is certain if the body of christ be present in the eucharist as distinct from the divine nature i am not not to adore it : it is very uncertain , if it be present , whether i am to give divine worship to the body of christ ; but it is most certain , that if i worship christ in the sacrament , it is upon the account of his corporal presence . for although when i worship the person of christ as out of the sacrament , my worship is terminated upon him as god and man ; and the reason of my worship is wholly drawn from his divine nature , yet when i worship christ as in the sacrament , i must worship him there upon the account of his bodily presence , for i have no other reason to worship him in the sacrament , but because his body is present in it . and this is not barely determining the place of worship , but assigning the cause of it ; for the primary reason of all adoration in the sacrament is , because christ hath said this is my body , which words , if they should be allowed to imply transubstantiation , cannot be understood of any other change than of the bread into the body of christ. and if such a sense were to be put upon it , why may not i imagine much more agreeably to the nature of the institution , that the meer humane nature of christ is there , than that his divinity should be there in a particular manner present to no end ; and where it makes not the least manifestation of it self . but if i should yield all that can be begged in this kind , viz. that the body of christ being present , his divinity is there present too ; yet my mind must unavoidably rest unsatisfied still as to the adoration of the host. for supposing the divine nature present in any thing gives no ground upon that account , to give the same worship to the thing wherein he is present , as i do to christ himself . this the more considerative men of the roman church are aware of , but the different wayes they have taken to answer it , rather increase mens doubts than satisfie them . greg. de valentiâ denies not that divine honour is given by them to the eucharist , and that the accidents remaining after consecration are the term of adoration , not for themselves , but by reason of the admirable conjunction which they have with christ. which is the very same which they say of the humane nature of christ , and yet this same person denies , that they are hypostatically united to him : which if any one can understand , i shall not envy him . bellarmin in answer to this argument , is forced to grant as great an hypostatical union between christ and the sacrament , as between the divine and humane nature ; for when he speaks of that , he saith it lyes in this , that the humane nature loseth its own proper subsistence , and it assumed into the subsistence of the divine nature ; and in the case of the sacrament , he yields such a losing the proper subsistence of the bread , and that what ever remains makes no distinct suppositum from the body of christ , but all belong to him and make one with him , and therefore may be worshipped as he is . is not this an admirable way of easing the minds of dissatisfied persons about giving adoration to the host , to fill them with such unintelligible terms and notions ; which it is impossible for them to understand themselves or explain to others ? vasquez therefore finding well that the force of the argument lay in the presence of christ , and that from thence they must at last derive only , the ground of adoration ; very ingenuously yields the consequence and grants that god may very lawfully be adored by us in any created being , wherein he is intimately present : and this he not only grants , but contends for in a set disputation , wherein he proves very well from the principles of worship allowed in the roman church , that god may be adored in inanimate and irrational beings as well as in images , and answers all the arguments the very same way that they defend the other , and that we way worship the sun as lawfully , and with the same kind of worship that they do an image , and that men may be worshipped with the same worship with which we worship god himself if our mind do not rest in the creature , but be terminated upon god , as in the adoration of the host. see here the admirable effects of the doctrine of divine worship allowed and required in the roman church ! for , upon the very same principles that a papist worships images , saints , and the host , he may as lawfully worship the earth , the stars , or men ; and be no more guilty of idolatry in one than in the other of them . so that if we have no more reason to worship the person of christ , than they have to adore the host , upon their principles we have no more ground to worship christ , than we have to worship any creature in the world. § . . . there are not the same motives and grounds to believe the doctrine of transubstantiation , that there are to believe that christ is god , which he affirms , but without any appearance of reason . and i would gladly know what excellent motives and reasons those are which so advantageously recommend so absurd a doctrine as transubstantiation is , as to make any man think he hath reason to believe it ? i am sure it gives the greatest advantage to the enemies of christs divinity , to see these two put together upon equal terms : as though no man could have reason to believe christ to be the eternal son of god , that did not at the same time swallow the greatest contradictions to sense and reason imaginable . but what doth he mean by these motives and grounds to believe ? the authority of the roman church ? i utterly deny that to be any ground of believing at all , and desire with all my heart to see it proved : but this is a proper means to believe transubstantiation by , for the ground of believing is as absurd as the doctrine to be believed by it . if he means catholick tradition , let him prove if he can , that transubstantiation was a doctrine received in the universal church from our saviours time ; and when he pleases i shall joyne issue with him upon that subject . and if he thinks fit to put the negative upon me , i will undertake to instance in an age since the three first centuries , wherein if the most learned fathers , and bishops , ( yea of rome it self ) be to be credited , transubstantiation was not believed . but if at last he means scripture , ( which we acknowledge for our only rule of faith , and shall do in spight of all pretences to infallibility either in church or tradition ) i shall appeal even to bellarmin himself in this case , whether there are the same motives and grounds from thence to believe transubstantiation , as there are , the divinity of christ. in the proof of transubstantiation , his only argument is from those words , this is my body , which words saith he , do necessarily inferre either a real mutation of the bread as the catholicks hold , or a metaphorical as the calvinists , but by no means do admit the lutherans sense ; and so spends the rest of the chapter against them : and concludes it thus , although there be some obscurity or ambiguity in the words of our lord , yet that is taken away by councils and fathers , and so passes to them . which are a plain indication , he thought the same which others of his religion have said , that the doctrine of transubstantiation could not be proved from scripture alone . but when he proves the divinity of christ , he goes through nine several classes of arguments , six of which are wholly out of scripture ; the first out of both testaments , the second only out of the old , the third out of the new , the fourth from the names of the true god given to christ , the fifth from the divine attributes , eternity , immensity , power , wisdome , goodness , majesty ; the sixth from the proper works of god , creation , conservation , salvation , fore-knowing of secret things , and working miracles . all which he largely insists upon with great strength and clearness , so that if he may be judge , the motives to believe the divinity of christ , are far from being the same in scripture , that there are to believe transubstantiation . § . . . but supposing they are mistaken in the belief of this doctrine , this doth not excuse them from idolatry . to his quotation out of dr. taylors liberty of prophecying to the contrary , i shall return him the opinion of their own divines . the testimony of coster is sufficiently known to this purpose , who saith the same thing in effect that i had done , if the doctrine of transubstantiation be not true , the idolatry of the heathens in worshipping some golden or silver statute , or any images of their gods , or the laplanders worshipping a red cloth , or the aegyptians an animal , is more excusable than of christians that worship a bit of bread . and our country-man bishop fisher confesseth , that if there be nothing but bread in the eucharist , they are all idolaters . but none is so fit to answer dr. taylor as himself , after almost twenty years time to consider more throughly of those things , and then he confesseth , that the weapons he used for their defence were but wooden daggers , though the best he could meet with ; and if that be the best they have to say for themselves which he hath produced for them , their probabilities will be soon out-ballanced by one scripture-testimony urg'd by protestants ; and thou shalt not worship any graven images will outweigh all the best and fairest imaginations of their church : and elsewhere , that the second commandment is so plain , so easie , so peremptory against all the making and worshipping any image or likeness of any thing , that besides that every man naturally would understand all such to be forbidden , it is so expressed , that upon supposition that god intend to forbid it wholly , it could not more plainly have been expressed . by which it is clear he did not think that idolatry did lye only in forsaking the true god , and giving divine worship to a creature or an idol , that is to an imaginary god , who hath no foundation in essence or existence ; which is the reason he brings why they are excused from idolatry in adoration of the host , because the object of their adoration is the true god ; for he not only makes the second command to be peremptory and positive against the worship of the true god , by an image , but elsewhere plainly determins this to be idolatry ; and saith that an image then becomes an idol , when divine worship is given to it ; and that , to worship false gods , or to give divine honour to an image which is not god is all one kind of formal idolatry . if therefore they cannot be excused from idolatry who worship the true god by an image ; though the object of their adoration be right and they think the manner of it to be lawful ; neither can they who worship christ upon the account of transubstantiation in the sacrament ; for not only the superstition of an undue object , but of a prohibited manner or way of worship is idolatry ; even according to the opinion of him whom he produces as a testimony of their innocency . § . . . that if a mistake in this case will excuse them , it would excuse the grossest idolatry in the world . st. austin speaks of some , who said that christ was the sun , and therefore worshipped the sun , i desire to know whether this were idolatry in them or no ? they had scripture to plead for it as plain as , this is my body , for he is not only called the sun of righteousness ; but the vulgar latin ( which they contend to be the only authentick version ) reads that place , psal. . . in sole posuit tabernaculum suum , he hath placed his tabernacle in the sun ; and that this is to be understood of christ , may be proved from the apostles applying the other words , their line is gone out through all the earth ; to the apostles preaching the gospel , rom. . . and the manichees did believe that christ had his residence partly in the sun and partly in the moon , and therefore they directed their prayers alwayes to the sun. let us now consider two persons equally perswaded , that the sun is now the tabernacle of christ , and that he is really present there , and dispenses all the comfortable influences of heat and light to the world , he being so often in scripture called the true light , joh. . . and another , that he is really present by transubstantiation in the sacrament . i would fain understand why the one should not be as free from idolatry as the other ? if it be said , that all those places which speak of christ as the sun , are to be understood metaphorically , that is the same thing we say to them concerning those words of christ , this is my body ; and if notwithstanding that , they are excused by believing otherwise ; so must the other person unavoidably be so too . it is to no purpose to alledge fathers and councils for the opinion more than for the other ; for the question is not concerning the probability of one mistake more than of the other ( although if they be strictly examined , the absurdities of transubstantiation are much greater ) but we suppose a mistake in both , and the question is whether such a mistake doth excuse from idolatry or no ? and we are not to enquire into the reasons of the mistake , but the influence it hath upon our actions . and then we are to understand why a mistake equally involuntary as to the real object of divine adoration may not excuse from idolatry , as well as to the wrong application of worship due to a real object of adoration ? i. e. whether a man giving adoration to what he believes to be god , which is not so in it self , be not as excusable , as believing a true object of adoration in general , but giving divine worship to that which is not it ? as whether the worshipping false gods , supposing them to be true , be not as venial a fault , as worshipping that for the true god which is not so ? as for instance , suppose the aegyptians worshipping the sun for god , and the israelites the golden calf , believing it was the true god which brought them out of the land of aegypt ? or let us take one of the inca's of peru , who believed by a tradition supposed infallible among them , that the sun was their father and the visible god , by which the invisible did govern the world ; and therefore they ought to give all external adoration to the sun , and internal only to the invisible deity ; upon what account shall these be charged with idolatry , if an involuntary mistake and firm belief that they worship the true god doth excuse from it ? nay the most stupid and senseless of all idolaters who worshipped the very images for gods ( which the wisest among them alwayes disclaimed , and pretended only such a relative worship as he pleads for ) were in truth the most excusable upon this ground ; for supposing that it be true which they believed , they did a very good thing ; and which every person else ought to do upon the same belief . which is the utmost can be said for the papists adoration of the host , supposing the doctrine of transubstantiation were as true , as it is false and absurd . § . . . as to invocation of saints , i found the chief answer given was this , that they did not attribute the same kind of excellency to saints , which they give to god ; but suppose only a middle sort of excellency between god and us , which they make the foundation of the worship which is given to them . and as to this my argument was thus framed , if the supposition of a middle excellency between god and us , be sufficient ground for formal invocation , then the heathens worship of their inferiour deities could be no idolatry , for they still pretended they did not give to them the worship proper to the supream god ; which is as much as is pretended by the devoutest papists in justification of the invocation of saints . to this he answers two wayes : . by shewing the disparity of the heathens worship from theirs in two things : . in the object . . in the manner of their worship . . the persons whom they worship , he saith , are such as are endowed with supernatural gifts of grace in this life , and glory in heaven , whose prayers by consequence are acceptable and available with god , but the supream deity of the heathens , is known to be jupiter , and their inferiour deities venus , mars , bacchus , vulcan , and the like rabble of devils as the scripture calls them ; and therefore there can be no consequence , that because the heathens were idolaters in the worship of these , though they pretended not to give them the worship proper to jupiter the supream god ; therefore the catholicks must be guilty of idolatry in desiring the servants of the true god to pray for them to him . . as to the manner of worship , he saith , if any of them did attain , as the platonists , to the knowledge of the true god , yet as st. paul sayes , they did not glorifie him as god , but changed his glory into an image made like to corruptible man , adoring and offering sacrifice due to god alone to the statues themselves , or the inferiour deities they supposed to dwell or assist in them ; which st. austin upon the . psalm proves to be devils , or evil angels , because they required sacrifice to be offered to them , and would be worshipped as gods. but all he means by formal invocation , he saith is , desiring or praying the saints to pray for them . and if this were idolatry , we must not desire the prayers of a just man , even in this life , because this formal invocation will be to make him an inferiour deity . . he answers , that the same calumny was cast upon the catholicks in st. austins time , and is answered by him , and his answer will serve as well now as then , in his twentieth book against faustus , chap. . who himself held formal invocation a part of the worship due to saints , as is evident from the prayer he made to st. cyprian after his martyrdom , l. . de bapt . c. donat. c. . and calvin confesseth ( he saith ) it was the custom at that time to say , holy mary , or holy peter pray for us . this is his full answer : in which are two things to be examined . . whether the disparity between the heathen worship and theirs be so great as to excuse them from idolatry ? . whether the answer given by st. austin doth vindicate them : and whether invocation of saints as it is now practised in the church of rome , were allowed or in use then ? § . . . concerning the disparity . . as to the object of worship . far be it from me to parallel the holy angels and saints , with the impure deities of the heathens ; as to their excellencies : but the true state of the question is , whether the heathens were only too blame in making an ill choice of those they worshipped , as in worshipping iupiter , and venus , and vulcan , who are supposed to have been wicked wretches ; or else in giving divine worship to any besides the true god ? and if their idolatry lay not only in the former , but the latter , then this disparity cannot excuse them . there were two questions in debate between the primitive fathers of the christian church , and the heathen idolaters ; the first was more general , and in thesi , whether it were lawful to give divine worship to any besides the true and supream god ? the second was more particular , and in hypothesi , whether on supposition that were lawful , those whom the heathens worshipped were fit objects for such adoration ? in this latter they triumph over them with a great deal of eloquence , laying open the impiety of those whom they commonly worshipped ; but withal knowing that the wiser among them had another notion of these deities under the common names than the vulgar had ; they therefore charge them with idolatry in giving the worship proper to god to any creature , let it be never so excellent and serviceable to mankind , and that it was the property of the christian religion to give divine worship to none but god himself and his son christ iesus , without ever making any distinctions of absolute and relative worship which they must have been driven to , in case they had given religious worship to any besides . thus iustin martyr tells the heathen emperours , to whom he makes his apology for the christians , that christ did perswade men to worship god alone , by saying , this is the great commandment , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve ; and that we are to render to caesar the things that are caesars , and to god the things that are gods : on which account , saith he , we worship god alone , and give cheerful service in all other things to you . theophilus bishop of antioch ( who lived in the second century after christ , as well as iustin ) giving an account why the christians refused giving adoration to the emperours which was then used ( not that adoration which was proper to the supream god , for none can be so senseless to imagine they required that ; but such kind of religious worship as they gave to the images of their gods ) saith , that as the king or emperour suffers none under him to be called by his name ; and that it is not lawful to give it to any but himself : so neither is it to worship any but god alone : and elsewhere saith , that the divine law doth not only forbid the worship of idols , but of the elements , the sun , and moon , and stars , or any thing else in heaven , in earth , in sea , or fountains , or rivers , but we ought only to worship the true god and maker of all things , in the holiness of our hearts and integrity of our minds . to the same purpose speak clemens alexandrinus , tertullian , cyprian , origen , athenagoras , lactantius , arnobius , who all agree , that religious worship is proper to the true god , and that no created thing is capable of it , on that very account because it is created ; it were easie to produce their testimonies , if it were requisite in so evident a matter as this is . if it be said , that all these testimonies are only against that idolatry which was then practised by the heathens . i answer , . their reasons equally extend to the giving divine worship to any created being whatsoever , so that either they argued weakly and unskilfully , or else it is as unlawful to give divine worship now to saints , as it was then to any creature . . i would willingly understand why it should be more unlawful to worship god for his admirable wisdom , and power and goodness in the works of creation ; than in supposed saints ? i. e. why i may not as well honour god by giving worship to the sun , as to ignatius loyola , or st. francis , or any other late canonized saint ? i am sure the sun is a certain monument of gods goodness , wisdom , and power , and i cannot be mistaken therein , but i can never be certain of the holiness of those persons i am to give divine worship to . for all that i can know , ignatius loyola was a great hypocrite ; but i am sure that the sun is none ; but that he shines and communicates perpetual influences to the huge advantage of the world . however i know the best of men have their corruptions , and to what degree it is impossible for others to understand ; but i am certain the spots in the sun are no moral impurities , nor displeasing to god. and philip nerius could not be mistaken in the shining of the sun , although he might be in the shining of ignatius his face , which yet is thought so considerable a thing , that it is read in the lessons appointed for ignatius in the roman breviary . . on what account should the christians refuse giving all external signs of religious worship to the heathen emperours , if they thought it lawful to be given to any sort of men ? why might not they worship the statues of kings and princes , as well as others do those of rebels and traytors ? i mean , why might not the image of king henry the second have the same reverence shewn to it , that the shrine of thomas becket had ? unless it be more meritorious to disobey a prince , than to give him reverence . might not the primitive christians have much easier defended themselves in giving those outward signs of worship to the images of emperours , than others can do in the worship they give to saints ? for they might have pleaded , that external signs are to be interpreted by the intention of the person who uses them , that they intended no more by it , but the highest degree of civil honour on the account of the authority they possessed ? or if this would not serve , might not they have said , that kings and princes were gods vicegerents , and represented him to the world , and that in giving divine worship to them , they gave it to god ; and that their absolute , ultimate , and terminative worship was upon god ; and only a relative , inferior , and transient worship was given to them , and all this might be better justified by st. basils rule , that the honour of the image passes to the prototype ; for he there pleads for the worship of christ , because he is one with the father being his image , as the image of a king is called the king , and hath the same honour given to it ; for the honour of the image passeth to the thing represented . and as christ hath the advantage above all , by being gods natural image ; so princes above saints , in that they represent god to the world , which the other do not . but notwithstanding all these pleas , the primitive christians were so punctual in observing that command of worshipping god alone , that they rather chose to lose their lives and suffer martyrdom , than be in the least guilty of giving any divine worship to a creature . . they absolutely deny any religious worship to be given to the most excellent created beings , and therefore did not only condemn the idolatry then in use , but that which hath obtained in the roman church : supposing all the persons worshipped therein to have been real saints . for that , we are to consider that all the heathens were not such great fools , as some men make them to excuse themselves : if the wiser men were contented to let the people worship the poetical gods , having their minds possessed with those idea's of them , which they had taken up by their education ; yet they understood them only as allegories , ( as some make the image of st. christopher and st. george in the church of rome to be no other ) and they had temples erected to the greatest vertues , to piety , faith , concord , iustice , chastity , clemency , &c. and others to the greatest benefactors to mankind , which was the only ground they pleaded for giving worship to them : but still they acknowledged one supream god , not iupiter of creet , but the father of gods and men ; only they said , this supream god being of so high a nature , and there being other intermediate beings between him and men whose office they conceived , it was to carry the prayers of men to god , and to bring down help from him to them ; they thought it very fitting to address their solemn supplications to them . here now was the very same case in debate , ( altering only the names of things ) which is between us and the church of rome ; and if ever they speak home to our case , they must do upon this point . and so they do , but very little to their comfort . § . . these things i shall largely prove if farther occasion be given , at present i shall only insist on two things . . that they did condemn all such kind of worship , supposing their principle true . . that they did not only condemn it in those spirits which the heathens worshipped , but in good angels themselves . . they did condemn the worship , supposing their principle true . for this i shall produce now but few authorities , but such as are full as to the heathens pretences , and the christians answers . the first is of origen in his answer to celsus , who objects against the christians , the unreasonableness of forsaking the worship of inferiour deities , because no man can serve two masters ; which , saith he , is a seditious principle , and arises from attributing our passions to god ; but he that honours them as subjects to the supream god , cannot offend him who is the lord of them . to which origen answers , that the scripture doth indeed stile god , the god of gods , and lord of lords , but withal saith , that to us , there is but one god the father , of whom are all things , and one lord iesus christ , by whom are all things , and we by him ; which the apostle speaks , saith he , of himself and all others whose minds were raised up to him , who is the god of gods , and lord of lords ; and his mind ascends up to the supream god , who worships him inseparably and indivisibly by his son , who alone conducts us to the father . therefore seeing there are many gods and many lords , we endeavour by all means , not only to carry our minds above those things on earth , which are worshipped by the heathen for gods , but above those whom the scripture calls gods , by which it is plain by the drift of his discourse , he means the angels . and celsus afterwards yielding , that it is not lawful to give honour to any , but to whom the supream doth communicate it : origen desires proof from them , that god hath communicated this honour to their gods , heroes and daemons , and that it did not arise from the ignorance and folly of mankind , who thereby fell off from him who ought properly to be worshipped . but he proves , from miracles and prophecies and precepts , than this honour was given to christ , that they who honour the father , should honour the son also : and that was all which celsus had to object against the christians , that they did not keep to their own rule of worshipping god alone ; for they thought god was not dishonoured by the honour they gave to christ ; and on the same account he thought , they might give it to inferiour deities . if there had been then any suspicion of religious worship given to saints or angels by the christians , when had there been a more proper season to object it ? no man of the meanest capacity would have omitted a matter so necessary to his business , much less so inquisitive and malicious an enemy as celsus was . and the account origen gives of the worship the christians attribute to the son of god is , because it is said , i and my father are one ; and the father in me , and i in him ; which cannot be said of any created beings . it is true afterwards he saith , that if celsus had spoken of the true ministers of god , such as gabriel , michael and all the angels and archangels , he acknowledges , that by explaining the notion of worship or respect , and the actions of those who give it , somewhat more might be said on that subject . but he utterly denyes , that our prayers are to be offered to any but christ alone , and that any word which is proper only to religious worship , is to be attributed to the angels themselves . for he saith elsewhere , although the angels be called gods in scripture , yet we are not to worship them with divine worship : and lest any should think , that offering up our prayers or invocations to them were not excluded by this ; he immediately explains himself ; for , saith he , all our supplications , prayers , intercessions and thanksgivings are to be offered only to god over all ; by that high priest who is greater than all the angels , the living word and god. and afterwards saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we ought not to pray to them , who pray for us ; for they would rather themselves send us to that god to whom they pray , than have us pray to them , or divide our supplications between god and them . this he speaks indeed of the sun , and moon , and stars , but upon the supposition that they are intellectual beings , and do pray to god for us . and again he saith , we ought to pray only to the god over all , and his only son the first born of every creature , who as our high priest , offers our prayers to his god and our god. and because celsus argues much for worship to be given to daemans , because to them is committed the care of terrestrial affairs : to this origen answers , by denying those whom he calis daemons , to have any administration of the affairs of christians ; but supposing we knew they were not daemons , but angels , which had the management of these things committed to them , yet then we dare not give them that honour which is due to god , for neither would god have it so , nor they themselves ; but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we celebrate their praise and happiness , to whom god hath entrusted such great things . but celsus yet further urges , that according to the doctrine of the aegyptians every part of a man hath a particular daemon or ethereal god , and every one of these being invocated , heals the diseases of the parts proper to themselves . why then may they not justly invocate them , if they love health better than sickness , and happiness than misery . if one of the church of rome had been to answer celsus , he must have told him , that the thing was rational which he said , only they were out in their names ; for instead of chnumen , chnaachumen , cnat , sicat , biu , eru , &c. they should have chosen raphael for travelling and against diseases , apollonia against the tooth-ach , sebastian and roch against the plague , st. nicholas against tempests , michael and st. george against enemies ; and others in like cases . for so serrarius tells us , that experience and tradition hath discovered the particular help of these in such cases ; if they be particularly invocated . but origen gives a shorter answer , that these things do arise from a distrust of the sufficiency of that incommunicable worship we give to god alone , as though he were not able to protect every one that serves him from all snares : and that far more effectual cures have been wrought by the name of iesus than all their daemons . and how much better do those who are christians who slight all these things and commit themselves to god over all through his son iesus christ , and of him do desire the help and protection of his holy angels ? i shall conclude his testimony with that excellent saying of his . our care ought to be to please one god over all , and to make him propitious to us , by piety and all vertue , but if we would have others under god to be pleased with us too , we ought to consider , that as the shadow follows the body , so god being pleased , all his friends whether angels , souls or spirits will be so too , and not only so , but are ready to help them , and pray to god for them . but not the least foundation in his discourse for our invocation of them . the author of the commentaries under the name of st. ambrose , of the same age with him , as appears by several passages in him : saith , that the idolaters made use of this miserable excuse for themselves , that by those inferiour deities they worshipped they went to god himself , as we go to the king by his courtiers . but , saith he , is any man so mad , or regardless of himself , to give the honour due to the king to any of his courtiers , which if a man does he is condemned for treason ? and yet they think themselves not guilty who , give the honour due to gods name to a creature , and forsaking god adore his fellow servants , as though any thing greater than that were reserved for god himself . but therefore we go to a king by his officers and servants , because the king is but a man , who knows not of himself whom to imploy in his publick affairs , ( without being recommended by others : ) but with god it is otherwise , for nothing is hid from him , he knows the deserts of every one , and therefore we need no one to recommend us to his favour ; a devout mind is enough . was this now all the quarrel the christians had with the heathens that they worshipped iupiter and venus and vulcan ? do they not expresly deny the giving gods worship to any creature ? and do they not as plainly affirm that men do it when they invocate their fellow servants to be intercessors with god for them ? and that it is no less a guilt of idolatry in this case , than it is in giving the honour due to a prince to any of his servants ? st. austin gives this account of the principles of the heathen worship , that there were three sorts of beings to be considered , purely divine , and mortal , and a middle sort between them which participated of both , and that the entercourse between gods and men was by the means of those intermediate beings , who carried the prayers of men up to god , and brought down the blessings they prayed for to men . against these indeed st. austin disputes first , by shewing that those spirits which they worshipped were evil spirits , and that there was no reason to imagine that god had a greater entercourse with them , than with penitent sinners , but withall he addes , that this kind of worship doth proceed upon the supposition that the gods cannot know the necessities and prayers of men , but by the intervention of those spirits : but if our minds can be known without their help , there is no need of their mediation . and afterwards saith , that those who are christians do believe that we need not many , but one mediatour , and that such a one by whose participation we are made happy , i. e. the word of god not made but by whom all things were made : and he hath shewed that to the attaining blessedness we ought not to seek many mediators , by whom we are to make our degrees of approach to god , because god himself by partaking our nature , hath shewn us the shortest way of our partaking his divinity . neither doth he delivering us from mortality and misery carry us so to immortal and blessed angels , that by participating with them , we should become blessed and immortal ; but to that trinity by whose participation the angels themselves are blessed . and concludes that book with this saying , that immortal and blessed spirits however they are called , which are made and created ; are no mediatours to bring miserable mortals , to blessedness and immortality . and it would be ridiculous here to distinguish mediators of redemption and intercession ; for all that they attributed to their goods spirits was only intercession ; and christ being made a mediatour , effectual for the end he designed , there could be no necessity of any intercessours besides him . and st. austin there addes , that the design of his following book , is to prove that those good spirits which are immortal and blessed , which they thought ought to be worshipped with sacred rites and sacrifices , whatsoever they are and howsoever called , would not have any one worshipped by such religious worship , ( i.e. by sacred rites as well as sacrifices ) but only one god by whom they were created , and by whose participation they are made happy . § . . by which the second thing i proposed will appear to be true , viz. that they did not only condemn giving this worship to the spirits which the heathen worshipped but to good angels too . for st. paul in the general doth condemn the worship of angels ; if he had meant only evil angels he would have expressed it so , especially if st. austins observation be true , that the evil spirits are by their names in scripture distinguished from the good ; if he had meant any particular superstition used in the worship of angels , he would not have used such terms which condemn all worship of them as superstitious ; if he had meant only the worship of angels so as to exclude christ , he would have intimated that the fault , lay in excluding christ , and not in the bare worship of angels ; but by the series of his discourse it appears that those who set up other mediators besides christ do not hold the head , i. e. do not adhere to christ alone , as him whom god hath appointed as our mediatour only . whether this were practised by iewes , philosophers , or hereticks is all one to us , since the practice is condemned wherever it is found . theodoret saith , they were the iewes who perswaded men to worship angels , because the law was delivered by angels ; which practice he saith , continued a long time in phrygia and pisidia , and therefore the synod of laodicea doth forbid praying to angels ; and to this day the oratories of st. michael are among them , they therefore thought it a piece of humility , since god could not be seen , nor touched , nor comprehended by us , to obtain the favour of god , by the intercession of angels . no wonder baronius is so much displeased with theodoret for this interpretation ; for he very fairly tells us what he condemns ( and st. paul too ) was the practice of their church ; and those oratories were set up by catholicks and not by hereticks . but whether as to the lawfulness of this worship , baronius or st. paul , whether as to the ancient practice of the church , baronius or theodoret deserves more to be believed , i leave any one to judge . and yet theodoret is not alone in this , for irenaeus denies any invocations of angels to be in use among christians , if he had meant only evil angels it seems very strange he should use the name generally given to good , and alwayes indifferent to both . origen expresly denies any offering up of prayers to them to be practised by christians or reasonable to be done , and produces this very place of the apostle against it . the council of laodicea we see by theodoret is very severe against all who worship angels and charges them with idolatry in so doing ; if they had only meant the heathen idolaters as baronius contends , yet by that it appears that the heathens were condemned for worshipping those whom they believed to be good spirits ; but these are only shifts to escape by , and such which would not have come into the mind of any man if he did not first fear the force of that canon against the practice of the roman church . for why the heathen idolatry should at that time be called secret or hidden as it is in that canon , is not easie to be thought upon ; but very easily intelligible according to theodorets interpretation because of the clandestine meetings of those who worshipped angels , and therein separated themselves from the christian churches . st. austin discourses purposely on this subject ( as is intimated before ) whether god or the blessed spirits are willing we should perform any sacred offices or sacrifices to them ; or consecrate our selves or any thing of ours to them by any religious rites , which he denies : for this , saith he , is the worship proper to the deity , called by him in one word latria , which he thinks more proper to express divine worship , as distinct from the honour and service we give to men ( which is plainly his meaning there ) than any one word greek or latine besides . and this word he saith is proper to the deity as such , because he elsewhere tells us , the difference between 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is this , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the service of god properly as god ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the service of god as lord. § . . i know very well by what arts all these testimonies are endeavoured to be evaded , viz. by saying , that these are intended against the gentiles idolatry who worshipped those spirits as gods , and offered sacrifices to them ; but this cannot hold as to the doctrine or practice of the roman church , who deny them to be gods , and assert that the worship by sacrifice is proper only to god : but such devices as these are can never satisfie an impartial mind . for ( . ) they do expresly deny that invocation or prayer is to be made to them ; for so origen and theodoret speak expresly , that men are not to pray to angels ; and any one that reads st. austin will find that he makes solemn invocation to be as proper to god as sacrifice is . ( . ) on what account should it be unlawful to sacrifice to saints or angels if it be lawful to invocate them ? may not one be relative and transient as well as the other ? nay the heathen in st. austin argued very well , that sacrifices being meer external things might more properly belong to the inferiour deities , but the more invisible the deity was , the more invisible the sacrifices were to be , and the greater and better the deity , the sacrifice was to be still proportionable : and can any man in his senses think that a meer outward sacrifice is more acceptable to god , than the devotion of our heart is ? and wherein can we better express that to god , than in offering up our prayers to him ? so that in all reason the duty of prayer ought to be reserved as more proper to god than any external sacrifice , and those who did appropriate sacrifice to god did comprehend prayer as the most spiritual and acceptable part of it : so st. austin speaking of the sacrifice due to god , makes our heart the altar , and christ our priest , and our prayers and praises to be offered up to god by a fervent charity ; and any work which is therefore done that thereby we may be united to god in a holy communion with him , in order to our happiness , to be a true sacrifice ; and let any man judge whether this description do not so naturally agree to prayer , as if it had been only intended for it . besides it is observable that sacrifices of old were solemn rites of supplication ; and calling upon the name of the lord where altars were erected is the main thing spoken of , thence the temple ( though the place of sacrifice ) is called the house of prayer ; and where god slights sacrifices , he requires prayer as much more acceptable to him . it seems then very strange that sacrifice alone as distinguished from prayer should be that latria that is proper to god. ( . ) upon the same account that the heathen did give divine honour to their inferiour deities , those in the roman church do so to angels and saints . for the heathens made a difference in their sacrifices to the supreme god , and their inferiour deities and their heroes : so that if the putting any difference in the way of religious worship doth excuse the one , it must do the other also . did the heathen use solemn ceremonies of making any capable of divine worship ? so does the roman church . did they set up their images in publick places of worship and there kneel before them and invocate those represented by them ? so does the roman church . did they consecrate . temples and erect altars to them , and keep festivals and burn incense before them ? so does the roman church . lastly , did they offer up sacrifices in those temples to the honour of their lesser deities and heroes ? so does the roman church . for bellarmin reckoning up the honours belonging to canonized saints besides those before mentioned , reckons up this as one , that the sacrifices of the eucharist , and of lauds and prayers are publickly offered to god for their honour . i would fain understand what the sacrificing to one for the honour of another means ? to offer sacrifice to one for another is an intelligible thing , but to sacrifice to one for the honour of another is a thing beyond my reach , if that sacrifice does not belong to him for whose honour it is offered ; and if the sacrifice do belong to him , i wonder at the scrupulosity of those who dare not say they sacrifice to him as well . for what is sacrificing to god , but sacrificing to his honour , or doing such an act of religion with a design to honour god by it : but when men offer a sacrifice , but not to honour god by it , but the b. virgin , or any saints or angels , how can that sacrifice belong to any other but those whose honour is designed by it ? it being then the opinion and practice of the roman church , that sacrifices are to be offered for the honour of saints or angels , it is evident they have reserved no part of divine worship peculiar to god himself , any more than the heathen did . ( . ) there can be no material difference , that the heathen called those they worshipped gods , but they do not so in the roman church . for st. austin saith there was scarce any difference between the heathen and them about the name , whether angels might be called gods or no : for he thinks that they are called so in scripture , as well as origen : but the question was about the thing , whether they were to be worshipped as gods or no , i. e. by giving any part of religious worship to them ? which they utterly deny . and were i in the communion of the roman church i should much less scruple calling canonized saints , or angels by the names of gods , than giving them the worship of invocation , or the honour of sacrifices : but in so doing they are not only condemned by plain scripture , and reason , but by those of the primitive church who writ against the heathen idolatry : which was the thing to be shewed . § . . . another disparity is insisted on by him , which is , as to the manner of worship . and as to this , he saith , all that they understand by formal invocation , is desiring or praying those iust persons , who are in glory in heaven to pray for us ; and if the catholicks be guilty of idolatry in this , we must not desire the prayers of a just man even in this life , because this formal invocation will be to make him an inferiour deitie . to shew the palpable weakness of this answer , i shall prove these two things . . that those in the church of rome do allow and practise another kind of formal invocation from what he asserts . . that supposing this were all , it would not excuse them , and that it is of a very different nature from desiring the prayers of just men for us in this life . . that they do allow and practise another kind of formal invocation from what he asserts . he might very well say , he did understand well what i meant by formal invocation , when he makes this to be the meaning of it ; for never any person before him imagined that sense of it ; and that term of formal invocation was purposely chosen by me , to distinguish it from the rhetorical apostrophe's of some of the greek fathers , the poetical flourishes , of damasus , prudentius , and paulinus ; from general wishes that the saints would pray for us . of which are some instances , in good authors ; from assemblies at the monuments of martyrs , which were usual in ancient times ; and that which i thought any man would understand by it was that which is constantly practised in the roman church . viz. in places and times purposely appointed for divine and religious worship , with all the same external signes of devotion which we use to god himself , to offer up our prayers to saints , or angels to help us in our necessities as well as to pray to god for us . the former part none can be ignorant of , that have but so much as heard of the devotion of the church of rome ; all the difficulty lies in that , whether they pray to them to help their necessities as well as pray for them ? and so many forms of prayer allowed and practised in their church have been so often objected to them , wherein these things are manifest , that i cannot but wonder this should be denyed . do they believe , we never look into their breviaries , rosaries , houres , and other books of devotion , wherein to this day such prayers are to be found ? do they think we never heard of the offices of the b. virgin , or our ladies psalter a blasphemous book , never yet censured , wherein the psalmes , in their highest strains of prayer to god are applyed to the v. mary ? i have known my self intelligent persons of their church who commit their souls to the v. maries protection every day , as we do to almighty gods : and such who thought they understood the doctrine and practice of their church as well as others . but , madam , these are mysteries not to be known till they have their proselytes safe and fast enough , then by degrees they let them know , what is to be done , when they have given away all liberty of judging for themselves . then it is no matter what they are commanded or expected to do , they must do as others do , or else their sincerity is questioned , and they are thought hereticks in their hearts , whatever they profess . i shall not insist upon any ancient breviaries , or obsolete forms , or private devotions , which yet they are accountable for , till they do condemn them . i need no more than the present roman breviary restored according to the council of trent , and authorized by three several popes . in the feast of assumption of the blessed virgin , as though it were not enough in the antiphonae to say , hail blessed virgin , thou alone hast destroyed all heresies in the world ; but lest this should be interpreted of doing it by her son , a formal invocation of her follows , vouchsafe to let me praise thee o holy virgin ; and give me strength against thy enemies . and in the hymn frequently used in her office , and particularly that day , she is not only called the gate of heaven , but she is intreated to loose the bonds of the guilty , to give light to the blind , and to drive away our evils , and to shew her self to be a mother ; ( or as it is in the mass-book at paris . iure matris impera redemptori , as thou art a mother , command the redeemer ) in a word , they pray to her therein for purity of life , and a safe conduct to heaven . but lest the hymns should be thought only poetical , in the feast of s. maria ad nives ; aug. . a formal prayer is made to her , to help the miserable , to strengthen the weak , to comfort those that mourn , and that all who celebrate her holy festivity may feel her assistance . by which we may understand the meaning of that solemn hymn used in her office , wherein she is called the mother of mercy and clemency , and is prayed to protect us from our enemies , and to receive us in the hour of death . is all this only praying to her to pray for us ? what could be more said to almighty god or his son iesus christ ? nor is this devotion only to the blessed virgin , but we shall see it alike in that to angels and saints ; in the antiphona upon the apparition of michael the archangel may . he is prayed to come to the help of the people of god. and in the feast of the guardian angels recommended to all catholicks by paul the fifth in the last words of the breviary , they are prayed to defend them in war , that they may not perish in gods terrible judgement . in the hymn to the holy apostles they are prayed to command the guilty to be loosed from their guilt , to heal unsound minds , and to increase their vertues , that when christ shall come , they may be partakers of eternal glory . these may suffice for a present taste of the sincerity of such persons who say , that in the church of rome they do nothing but pray to the saints to pray for them . and it is a very pitiful shift that bellarmin is put to , whereby to excuse such prayers as these , that indeed as to the words themselves they do imply more than praying to them to pray for us ; but the sense of the words , he saith , is no more . but whence i pray must the people take the sense of such prayers as these are , if not from the signification of the words ? if this were all , why in all this time that these prayers have been complained of , hath not their sense been better expressed ? have not their breviaries been often reviewed , if this had not been their meaning , why have they not been expunged all this while ? suppose then that any persons in the roman church ( as no doubt most do ) take their sense from the words , and do not force it upon them , and they pray according to the form prescribed ; do they well or ill in it ? if they do ill in it , their church is guilty of intolerable negligence in not preventing it ; if they do well , then their church allows of more than praying to angels and saints to pray for them . bellarmins instances of the apostles in scripture being said to save men , do shew what shifts a bad cause will put a man to : for will any man in his wits say the case is the same in ordinary speech and in prayer ? is it all one , for a man to say , that his staff helped him in his going , and to fall down upon his knees to pray to his staff to help him ? god did use the apostles as instruments on earth to promote the salvation of mankind , but may we therefore pray to them now in heaven to save us ? may we not truly say , that the sun enlightens the world , but may we therefore pray to the sun to enlighten us ? no , the sun is but gods instrument , and our addresses must be in prayer to the supream lord over all . but to take his own explication of praying to them for these things : i. e. praying to them that they would pray to god for them , as we desire one another to pray : would not that man be condemned of gross idolatry , or prodigious folly , who instead of desiring his friends to pray to god for the pardon of his sins , and the assistance of divine grace , should say to them , i pray you pardon my sins , and assist me with the grace of god ? what would st. paul have said to such men that should have asked such things of him , who yet saith , that he was an instrument of saving some ? § . . . supposing this were all that were done and allowed in the roman church , yet this would not excuse them : for their practice is very different in their invocation of saints , from desiring our brethren on earth to pray for us . and i cannot but wonder , how any men of common sense can suffer themselves to be imposed upon so easily in this matter . for is there really no difference in st. pauls desiring his brethren to pray for him , as he often did ; and a mans falling down upon his knees with all the solemnity of devotion he uses to god himself , to st. paul to desire him to pray for him , when he was present upon earth , and did certainly know what he desired of him ? suppose in the midst of the solemn devotions of the church where st. peter or st. paul had been present , the letanies of the church had been then as they are now ; and after they had prayed to the persons of the holy trinity , the people should with the same postures and expression of devotion have immediately turned themselves to the apostles , and cryed only peter and paul pray for us ; do you think , this would have been acceptable to them ? no doubt st. peter would have been less pleased with this , than with cornelius , only falling down before him , and yet then he bid him stand up , i my self also am a man. they who impute this only to his modesty , will not allow him to carry it to heaven with him ; for they suppose him to be very well pleased with that honour in heaven , which he refused on earth . and st. paul would have rent his garments and cryed out , as he did to the men of lystra , why do ye these things ; we also are men of like passions with you ? they would not receive any honour that might in the least seem to incroach upon the divine honour , and yet they might upon better grounds have done it to them on earth , than now in heaven , because they were then sure they heard them , which now they can never be . and would it not be a senseless thing to desire some excellent person in the indies , when we are at our solemn devotion to pray for us , because it is possible god may at the same time reveal our minds to him ? i would willingly be informed , if we had assurance of the sanctity of a person in this life , as great as they have in the church of rome of those they invocate ; whether there would be any evil at all in publick places of worship , and at the time used for the service of god , to set such a person up in some higher place of the church , to burn incense before him , to prostrate themselves with hands and eyes lifted up to him , if at last they pretended , that all that time they only prayed to him , to pray for them ? and certainly a good man is much more the image of god , and deserves more reverence than all the artificial images of saints , or of god himself . if they will condemn this , they may conceive , that supposing , they only prayed to saints in their devotions to pray for them , this would not excuse them : for they do it in those places , at such times , and in such a manner as highly incroaches upon the worship and service due to god alone . § . . . i now come to consider , whether the answer given by st. austin will vindicate them , and whether invocation of saints , as it is now practised in the church of rome were allowed , or in use then ? here he tells us , that faustus the manichean calumniates the catholicks ( the word is st. austins he saith , and we do not quarrel with the word , but that they are not such catholicks as st. austin speaks of ) because they honoured the memories or shrines of martyrs , charged them to have turned the idols into martyrs , whom they worshipped said he with like vows . to shew how very far what st. austin saith , is from justifying the present practices of the roman church , we need no more than barely to represent what st. austin affirms , and what he denyes . he affirms , that it was the custom of the christians in his time to have their religious assemblies at the sepulchres or memories of the martyrs , where the place it self would raise their affections , and quicken their love towards the martyrs and towards god ; but he utterly denyes , that any religious worship was performed to the martyrs : for neither was any sacrifice offered up to any of them , nor any other part of religious worship : for thereupon he shews ( which is very conveniently left out in the citation ) that not only sacrifice was refused by saints and angels , but any other religious honour which is due to god himself , as the angel forbad st. iohn to fall down and worship him . all the worship therefore , he saith , that they give to saints is , that of love and society , and of the same kind which we give to holy men in this life , who are ready to suffer for the truth of the gospel . but that the worship of invocation is expresly excluded by st. austin , appears by what himself saith on a like occasion ; where he shews the difference between the gentiles worship and theirs : they ( saith he ) build temples , erect altars , appoint priests , and offer sacrifices ; but we erect no temples to martyrs as to gods , but memories as to dead men whose spirits live with god ; we raise no altars on which to sacrifice to martyrs , but to one god , the god of martyrs as well as ours , at which as men of god who have overcome the world by confessing him , they are named in their place and order , but are not invocated by the priest who sacrifices . and elsewhere saith , whatever the christians do at the memories of the martyrs , is for ornaments to those memories , not as any sacred rites or sacrifices belonging to the dead as gods : we therefore do not worship our martyrs with divine honours , nor with the faults of men , as the gentiles did their gods. which gave occasion to lud. vives in his notes on that chapter to say , that many christians in his time ( what sort of catholicks those were , it is easie to guess , but to be sure , none of st. austins ) did no otherwise worship saints , than they did god himself ; neither could he see in many things any difference between the opinion they had of saints , and what the gentiles had of their gods. i cannot understand then how st. austins answer should justifie that which he condemns : he denyes that there was an invocation of saints , but only a commemoration of them ; the church of rome pleads for any invocation of them , and condemns all those who deny it . so that his answer is very far from clearing the roman church in the practice of invocation , and the objection we make against it , that it doth parallel the heathen idolatry ; for it grants , it would do so , if they gave to the saints the worship due to god , of which he makes invocation to be a part . but after all this , can we imagine , that he should practise himself contrary to his own doctrine ? yes , saith he , he made a prayer to st. cyprian , let blessed cyprian therefore help us in our prayers . but is there no difference to be made between such an apostrophe to a person in ones writing and solemn supplication to him with all the so●emnity of devotion in the duties of religious worship ? if i should now say , let st. austin now help me in his prayers , while i am defending his constant opinion , that invocation is proper to god alone , would they take this for renouncing the protestant doctrine , and embracing that of the church of rome ? i doubt they would not think that i escaped the anathema of the council of trent for all this . the question between us , is not how far such wishes rather than prayers were thought allowable being uttered occasionally , as st. austin doth this to st. cyprian , but whether solemn invocation of saints in the duties of religious worship , as it is now practised in the roman church , were ever practised in st. austins time , and this we utterly deny . we do not say , that they did not then believe , that the saints in heaven did pray for them , and that some of them did express their wishes , that they would pray particularly for them , we do not say , that some superstitions did not creep in after the anniversary meetings at the sepulchres of the martyrs grew in request ; for st. austin himself saith , that what they taught was one thing , and what they did bear with was another , speaking of the customes used at those solemnities : but here we stand , and fix our foot against all opposition whatsoever , that there was no such doctrine or practice allowed in the church at that time , as is owned and approved at this day in the church of rome . but from st. austin we are sent to calvin , whose authority ( though never owned as infallible by us ) we need not fear in this point : and i cannot but wonder , if he saw the words in calvin or bellarmin , that he would produce them . for calvin doth there say , that the council of carthage did forbid praying to saints , lest the publick prayers should be corrupted by such kind of addresses , holy peter pray for us . if st. austin were present in this council , as my adversary saith he was , i wonder what advantage it will be to him from calvins saying , that the council did condemn and forbid those prayers ; which were in use by some of the people . but it seems , he takes the peoples part against the council and st. austin too ; and thinks it enough for them to follow the practices condemned by councils and fathers ; which we are sure they do , and are glad to find so ingenuous a confession of it . he may as well the next time bring st. austins testimony for worshipping martyrs and images , because he saith , he knew many who adored sepulchres and pictures : and for the worship of angels , because he saith , he had heard of many , who had tryed to go to god by praying to angels , and were thought worthy to fall into delusions . § . . but the strangest effort of all the rest , is what he hath reserved to the last place , viz. that the charge of idolatry against them must be vain and groundless , because if i be pressed close , i shall deny any one of these negative points to be divine truths ; viz. that honour is not to be given to the images of christ and his saints , that what appears to be bread in the eucharist is not the body of christ , that it is not lawful to invocate the saints to pray for us . but the answer to this is so easie , that it will not require much time to dispatch it . for i do assert it to be an article of my faith , that god alone is to be worshipped with divine and religious worship : and he that cannot hence infer , that no created being is to be so worshipped , hath the name of reasonable creature given him to no purpose . what need we make negative articles of faith , where the affirmative do necessarily imply them ? if i believe that the scripture is my only rule of faith , as i most firmly do ; will any man that considers what he saith , require me to make negative articles of faith , that the pope is not , tradition is not , councils are not , a private spirit is not ? for all these things are necessarily implyed therein . and so for all particular doctrines rejected by us upon this principle , we do not make them negative points of faith , but we therefore refuse the belief of them , because not contained in our only rule of faith : on this account we reject the popes supremacy , transubstantiation , infalibility of the present church in delivering points of faith , purgatory , and other fopperies imposed upon the belief of christians . so that the short resolution of our faith is this , that we ought to believe nothing as an article of faith , but what god hath revealed , and that the compleat revelation of gods will to us is contained in the bible ; and the resolution of our worship , is into this principle , that god alone is to be worshipped with divine and religious worship , and therefore whether they be saints or angels , sun , moon and stars , whether the elements of a sacrament , or of the world , whether crosses , and reliques , or woods and fountains , or any sort of images ; in a word , no creature whatsoever is to be worshipped with religious worship , because that is proper to god alone . and if this principle will excuse them from idolatry . i desire him to make the best of it . and if he gives no more satisfactory answer hereafter , than he hath already done , the greatest charity i can use to those of that church , is to wish them repentance , which i most heartily do . chap. iii. of the hindrance of a good life and devotion in the roman church . the doctrines of the roman church prejudicial to piety . the sacrament of pennance , as taught among them , destroys the necessity of a good life . the doctrine of purgatory takes away the care of it , as appears by the true stating it , and comparing that doctrine with protestants . how easie it is , according to them , for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven . purgatory dreadful to none but poor and friendless . sincerity of devotion hindred by prayers in an unknown tongue . the great absurdity of it manifested . the effects of our ancestors devotion had been as great , if they had said their prayers in english. the language of prayer proved to be no indifferent thing , from st. pauls arguments . no universal consent for prayers in an unknown tongue , by the confession of their own writers . of their doctrine of the efficacy of sacraments , that it takes away all necessity of devotion in the minds of the receivers . this complained of by cassander and arnaud , but proved against them to be the doctrine of the roman church , by the canons of the council of trent . the great easiness of getting grace by their sacraments . of their discouraging the reading the scriptures . a standing rule of devotion necessary . none so fit to give it , as god himself : this done by him in the scriptures . all persons therefore concerned to read them . the arguments against reading the scriptures , would have held against the publishing them in a language known to the people . the dangers as great then , as ever have been since . the greatest prudence of the roman church is wholly to forbid the scriptures ; being acknowledged by their wisest men , to be so contrary to their interest . the confession of the cardinals at bononia to that purpose . the avowed practice of the roman church herein directly contrary to that of the primitive : although the reasons were as great then from the danger of heresies . this confessed by their own writers . § . . . the second reason i gave , why persons run so great a hazard of their salvation in the communion of the roman church was , because that church is guilty of so great corruption of the christian religion , by opinions and practices which are very apt to hinder a good life , which is necessary to salvation . but , . this necessity i said , was taken off by their making the sacrament of pennance joyned with contrition , sufficient for salvation . here he saith , that protestants do make contrition alone , which is less , sufficient for salvation , and our church allowing confession and absolution ( which make the sacrament of pennance ) in case of trouble of conscience , they being added to contrition , cannot make it of a malignant nature . to this i answer : that contrition alone is not by us made sufficient for salvation . for we believe , that as no man can be saved without true repentance , so that true repentance doth not lye meerly in contrition for sins . for godly sorrow in scripture , is said , to work repentance to salvation , not to be repented of ; and it cannot be the cause and effect both together . repentance in scripture implyes a forsaking of sin , ( as it were very easie to prove , if it be thought necessary ) and without this we know not what ground any man hath to hope for the pardon of it , although he confess it , and be absolved a thousand times over ; and have remorse in his mind for it , when he doth confess it . and therefore i had cause to say , that they of the church of rome destroy the necessity of a good life , when they declare a man to be in a state of salvation , if he hath a bare contrition for his sins , and confess them to the priest , and be absolved by him . for to what end should a man put himself to the trouble of mortifying his passions and forsaking his sins , if he commits them again , he knows a present remedy , toties quoties ; it is but confessing with sorrow , and upon absolution he is as whole , as if he had not sinned . and is it possible to imagine a doctrine that more effectually overthrows the necessity of a good life , than this doth ? i cannot but think , if this doctrine were true , all the precepts of holiness in the christian religion were insignificant things : but this is a doctrine fitted to make all that are bad , and willing to continue so , to be their proselytes ; when so cheap and easie a way of salvation is believed by them : especially if we enquire into the explication of this doctrine among the doctors of that church . i cannot better express this , than in the words of bishop taylor , whom he deservedly calls an eminent leading man among the protestants , where after he hath mentioned their doctrines about contrition , the sequel of all ( he saith ) is this , that if a man live a wicked life for sixty or eighty years together , yet if in the article of his death , sooner than which god ( say they ) hath not commanded him to repent , by being a little sorrowful for his sins , then resolving for the present that he will do so no more ; and though this sorrow hath in it no love of god , but only a fear of hell , and a hope that god will pardon him ; this , if the priest absolves him , doth instantly pass him into a state of salvation . the priest with two fingers and a thumb can do his work for him ; only he must be greatly prepared and disposed to receive it : greatly we say according to the sense of the roman church ; for he must be attrite , or it were better , he were contrite ; one act of grief , a little one , and that not for one sin more than for another , and this at the end of a wicked long life , at the time of our death will make all sure . upon these terms , it is a wonder that all wicked men in the world are not papists , where they may live so merrily , and dye so securely , and are out of all danger , unless peradventure they dye very suddenly , which because so very few do , the venture is esteemed nothing , and it is a thousand to one on the sinners side . but we dare not flatter men so into eternal misery ; we cannot but declare to them the necessity of a sincere repentance and holy life in order to salvation : and that we cannot absolve those , whom god hath declared he will not absolve . indeed for the satisfaction of truly penitent sinners , our church approves of applying the promises of pardon in scripture to the particular case of those persons ; which is that we mean by absolution . but if they pretend they can absolve whether god will or no ; we must leave god and them to dispute the point . § . . . i said the care of a good life was taken off among them , by supposing an expiation of sin ( by the prayers of the living ) after death . no , saith he , it is rather apt to increase it , because of the temporal pains the sinner is to sustain after death , if there be not a perfect expiation of sin in this life by works of pennance ; and although he be ascertained by faith , that he may be holpen by the charitable suffrages of the faithful living , yet this is no more encouragement to him to sin , than it would be to a spend-thrift to run into debt and to be cast into prison , because he knows he may be relieved by the charity of his friends . if he were sure there were no prison for him , that would be an encouragement indeed to play the spend-thrift , and this he saith , is the case of the protestants in denyal of purgatory . one would think by this answer , we protestants had a very pleasant religion , and that we held nothing could affright a sinner from continuing in his sins , because we destroy purgatory : but we had thought there had been something more dreadful in the torments of hell , than in the flames of purgatory . but if our plain doctrine , that every impenitent sinner must expect no less than eternal vengeance in another world , will not prevail upon men to leave their sins , and lead a good life , can we ●magine a groundless fiction of purgatory should ever do it ? especially , considering the true stating of the doctrine of purgatory among them , by which we shall easily discern what obligation it layes upon men to holiness of life . there are ( say they ) two sorts of sins which men are guilty of , some of which are in their own nature venial , and so do not deserve eternal punishment , and for these a general and vertual repentance is sufficient : but there are other which they call mortal sins , which have a debt and obligation to eternal punishment belonging to them ; but this eternal punishment is changed into temporal , by the sacrament of pennance ; but still this temporal punishment , must be undergone either in this life , or that to come ; if a man do not satisfie in this life , and cannot get help enough out of the stock of the church to do it for him ; there is no remedy , to purgatory he must go : and if he be not helped by his friends on earth , god knows how long he may stay there ; but then he is to blame that he took no more care for his soul when he lived , if not by a holy life , yet by leaving no more to those whose office it should be , to procure him a deliverance thence . judge now madam , if this be not a very frightful doctrine , especially to those , who are poor and friendless . but in case a man be rich enough to provide masses to be said for his soul , and that he hath a good stock of indulgences before hand , for some thousands of years , he may make a pretty tolerable shift in purgatory , especially in these last ages of the world ; wherein it is probable , it may not be near so long to the day of judgement ( when the final sentence is to be pronounced ) as he hath got years of indulgences already . i pray what need a person be afraid of , that lives a very bad life , according to these principles ? must he suffer for his original sin ? no , that , guilt and punishment , and all is clear done away in baptism . must he suffer for his venial sins ? that were strange , if he had never any general repentance for them . need he be afraid of the dreadful sentence of the day of judgement , go ye cursed into everlasting flames ? he is a fool indeed , that by a little present contrition and confession , will not obtain absolution from a priest , and in a trice the eternal flames are extinguished , and only some temporal punishment succeeds in the room of them . but it would seem somewhat hard to a voluptuous man however to be put to severe pennances ; is there no remedy in this case ? yes , there is a stock in the church , and if he will not procure help for himself thence by some plenary indulgences , if he will not bear it here , he must in another world . what then ? is he past all hope of remedy there ? that is according to his purse and friends . how easie is it for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of god ? but we have no such easie way of escaping the miseries of another life : we dare not tell men they may be relieved there by masses and sacrifices , and i know not what : our doctrine is plain and agreeable to the most obvious and easie sense of the gospel , if men be good here , they shall be happy afterwards ; if they be bad , and continue so , they shall be certainly miserable , and unavoidably so . but for those who are neither good nor bad , ( if any such can be ) neither sincere nor hypocrites , neither penitent nor impenitent , we leave them to take care of them : our saviour hath only declared , that those who are good , sincere , and penitent , shall be happy ; those who are otherwise , must be miserable : if they have found out some wayes for them to escape notwithstanding , at their peril be it , who relye upon them . but for others , we understand no more how punishment in another life should remain after the guilt of sin is pardoned , than how a shadow should continue , when the body is gone : for punishment follows guilt , as the shadow the body . and if pardon of sin signifies any thing , it is taking away the punishment we were obnoxious to by reason of sin . but how that man should be said to have his debt forgiven , who is cast into prison for it , only whereas he might have lain and rotted there , his creditor tells him , he shall endure the same misery , but he shall escape at last , is a thing no man would believe , who suffered in such a case . he might indeed say , that he did not exercise the utmost rigour of iustice , but would hardly be brought to magnifie the infinite clemency and kindness of his creditor . but we that desire to understand the way of salvation as it is delivered by our lord iesus christ , and to be saved in that way , cannot for our hearts understand any more by his doctrine , but that men shall be saved , if they believe and obey his doctrine , and shall be condemned , if they do it not . we find nothing of half saving and half damning men , such as the state of purgatory is believed to be in the church of rome . for the pains of person therein are said to be as great as the damned in hell , and yet all this while god is their friend , and they are sure to be saved . they had need in such a case call in the help of their friends on earth , if god be so ill a friend in heaven . and can he not believe , that it is a far greater encouragement to a spend-thrift to be told indeed of a dreadful prison , but such as if he leaves but money behind him to imploy his friends in begging his pardon , he shall be surely delivered ; than to be assured if he continues his folly , there will be no redemption or hopes of deliverance , when he is once cast into it . i dare appeal to any one who can but understand what we speak of , whether of these two , is the more probable way of reclaiming a man from riotous courses ? but that which is beyond this , is , that the one is most certainly true , the other but a meer figment of the brains of men , who have contrived a way to bring wicked men to heaven at last , although somewhat the farther way about , and it must cost them dear , for their friends to help them through . § . . . after i had shewed how much the necessity and care of a good life were obstructed by the principles of the roman church , i proceeded to shew , how the sincerity of devotion was hindered among them by several particulars . . by prayers in a language which many understand not . to this he answers , if i speak of private prayers , all catholicks are taught to say them in their mother tongue : if of the publick prayers of the church , he understands not why it may not be done with as much sincerity of devotion , the people joyning their intention and particular prayers with the priest , as their embassadour to god , as if they understood him ; he is sure the effects of a sincere devotion for nine hundred years together , which this manner of worship produced in this nation , were much different from those we have seen since the reducing the publick liturgy into english : for which he instances in building and endowing churches , colledges , religious houses , and the conversion of several nations by english missionaries . but this , he saith , is a matter of discipline , and not to be regulated by the fancies of private men , but the judgement of the church : and withal is confessed by some protestants , that most sects of christians have the scriptures , liturgies and rituals in a tongue unknown but to the learned ; and therefore according to st. austin , it is insolent madness to dispute that which is frequented by the whole church through the world . for our more distinct proceeding in answer to this , three things are to be considered : . whether praying in a known or unknown tongue , do more conduce to devotion ? . whether this whole matter be a thing left in the power of the church to determine ? . whether prayers in an unknown tongue , be universally received in all other parts of the christian world . . whether of these conduce more to devotion , is our main enquiry . and if praying in an unknown tongue doth so , i wonder he tells us , that all catholicks are taught to say them in their mother-tongue : why so i pray ? is it that by understanding what they speak , their minds might be more attentive , and their affections more raised in the desires of the things they pray for ? and will not the same arguments more hold for publick prayer , wherein all the congregation are to joyn together ? so that their private prayers condemn their publick , unless latin in the church be of greater force , than uttered in a closet . but can it enter into the minds of any men , who consider what the end of meeting together to pray is , that such an end should as much or more be attained , where people know not what they say , as where they do ? if all the business of christian worship were only to patter over a few words ( as if there were no difference between prayers and charms ) what he saith , were to some purpose : but that is so dishonourable a thing to christian religion , that it is hard to say , whether they have more corrupted the doctrine or the devotion of the christian church . if i saw a company of indians met together with their priest among them , using many antick gestures and mimical postures , and speaking many words which the people muttered after him , but understood not what they said ▪ i might probably suspect they were conjuring , but should hardly believe them , if they called that praying . i could not but enquire of them , what they meant by praying ? if they told me , saying so many hard words , which they understood not , i had done with them , but should shrewdly suspect the knavery of their priests . if they told me , by praying they meant , expressing their desires of the things they stood in need of to the god they worshipped , i could not but ask of them , whether it were not necessary for them to know what it was they asked , or how could they desire they knew not what ? or whether the god they worshipped , understood only that one tongue , and so they were fain to speak to him , in his own language ? this i confess , were a sufficient reason , and in that case the people were to be pittied , if they could not learn that tongue themselves . but supposing all languages equally known to him we make our addresses to , why should not the people use that , which they understand themselves ? are their prayers like counterfeit iewels , that the less they understand them , the better they like them ? it may justly give men some suspicion , that there are not fair dealings , where so little light is allowed to judge by : and that devotion commended most , which ignorance is the mother of . we think it as unreasonable to desire the people to say amen to prayers they know not the meaning of , as for men to set their hands to petitions without reading what is contained in them . it is a great chance if they do not mistake to their own great prejudice , and do what they repent of afterwards . we declare , that our meeting together to worship god , is to joyn together our hearty prayers , which the more the people understand , the better their minds are satisfied in what they desire , and the more fervent will their supplications be . if it be enough for some to understand them , it may as well be enough for some to pray them ; if their prayers who understand them , prevail for those who do not , then it is no matter at all whether they be present or no , unless the efficacy of the others prayers be confined within the walls where they meet . and if their prayers be most prevalent who understand most , then it were ten times better , if all the people understood what they prayed for : and it must necessarily follow , that praying in an unknown tongue , is a great obstructer of the devotion of the people , and that which hinders the efficacy of their prayers . if it be enough for the people to be present , and to pray their own private prayers there in publick , to what end is there any publick liturgy at all ? why should not all of them be at their private prayers together ? why should the priest with his iargon of hard words interrupt them ? for it can be no more to them who know not what he saith ; and why may they not as well say their private prayers at the chiming of bells , as at the words of a priest , for they understand both alike , and both seem to sound as such wise people will have them . but he tells us , the effects of this devotion were admirable in the charitable and pious works of our ancestors , who used this way so many ages together . i pray madam , ask him , whether he really thinks , they would have done none of those things , if they had said their prayers in english ? if they would not , i do much admire the force of the latin tongue : if they would , then that was not the cause , and so these things do not prove what they were intended for . and so tenterden steeple was not the cause of goodwin sands . we do not go about to disparage our ancestors , we bless god for the good they did ; but do not think that doth oblige us to think them infallible in their opinions , or without fault in all their practices : but our true ancestors in religion ▪ are christ and his apostles and the primitive church , and all these are yielded to be of our side , by the most zealous adversaries we have ; and give us leave to think their examples ought to have more force with us , than any other whatsoever . we pretend not to be wiser than they were , nor to know what is more expedient for devotion than they ; we are content to be condemned for error with those who are allowed to be infallible , and to want devotion , where we follow the examples of the most holy persons the world ever had . if the practice of the primitive church in this point were not given us for the first six hundred years and more , it were an easie matter to evince it by express testimonies : but that is not the thing insisted on , but that this is a matter of discipline , and the church hath the power to determine it in one age as well as another . § . . which is the next thing to be considered . here i shall desire but two principles to resolve this by . . that the churches power is only to edification and not to destruction ; for this was as much as the apostles challenged to themselves , and i hope none dare challenge more : but this is a principle of natural reason , that no power in a society ought to be extended beyond the benefit of it , or to contradict the end or design of it . . that the apostles were the most competent judges of what made for the edification of the church ; and what they declared did tend to that end , no succeeding persons ought to condemn as contrary to it . this depends upon that infallible spirit which the apostles had , and the mighty care in them of the churches good , which we cannot think any since them can exceed them in . these things being supposed , we are only to consider , whether the apostle hath not delivered his sense in our present subject , viz. that prayers in an unknown tongue are contrary to the edification of the church ? it seems somewhat hard to us to be put to prove a matter so evident from st. pauls discourse , cor. . and we could not imagine , any would go about to reconcile prayers in an unknown tongue , to cor. . but those who think they can reconcile the worship of images to the second commandment . the abuse st. paul corrects with so much sharpness in the church of corinth , was an impertinent use of the gift of tongues ; such i mean as did not tend to the edification of the church : as for instance , one man made a long harangue in hebrew , and pleased himself mightily in the sound of the words , when not a person there , it may be , understood a word that he said , another of a sudden begins a hymn in syriack or chaldee , another falls a praying in ethiopick , but all this while , no man interprets what these several men said : to what purpose is all this , saith the apostle , only for by-standers , to think they were children or mad men : could they imagine god gave them these gifts of tongues , to make uncouth and insignificant sounds with , where the people were met together for the worship of god ? if they were so much tickled with the noise , they might make that at home , and not in the church of god , where all things ought to be done to edification . for they met together as a company of reasonable men to receive some benefit that might be common to them all ; and therefore the gift of tongues in a society of christians could be of no use without an interpreter . but lest all this should seem to be spoken only of instruction of the people , and not of prayer to god , and that the case were not alike in both these , he adds , if i pray in an unknown tongue , my spirit prayeth , but my understanding is unfruitful . i. e. i may exercise my gift , but it is to no use at all in the church . how so ? one of the roman church might have told st. paul , when i see him pray , and know what he is doing , may i not joyn my intention of praying with his , as our embassadour , and pray my own private prayers at the same time that he doth ? i know the substance of what he designs to pray for ; and although i do not know his meaning , god knows mine : and therefore i can see no hinderance of devotion at all in this , that when one begins a prayer in an unknown tongue ; all the people fall upon their knees , and pray too : this is the plain answer they must give st. paul who justifies prayers in an unknown tongue . but we are content with st. pauls judgement in this case , and the reason of it , that the acts belonging to the worship of god in the church ought to be of so common concernment , that all may have a share in them , and receive the benefit by them : or else they were far better hold their peace . it is very impertinent to say , that the apostle speaks only of extraordinary gifts , and not of the settled and ordinary devotions of the church . for the case is the same , where the language is not understood , whether it be spoken by a miracle or not : and the apostle layes down a general rule from this particular case , that all things must be done to edifying , which it appears he judges the use of an unknown language not to be . and if after all this , it be in the churches power to reverse the apostles decree as to praying in an unknown language , they may use the very same power , as to all other offices of religion , and may command preaching to be in a tongue as unknown as praying ; that so the people may meet together , and pray , and hear sermons , and understand never a word , for their great edification . unless among us god should put it into their hearts to speak english , whether they would or no , as was once said by an ignorant person on the like occasion . if all that is intended in the prayers of the people , be only an intention to pray , whatever the words be , abracadabra might serve to pray with , as well as ave maria , and the old womans saying of it , avi mari gratia plinam dams ticum , beneditta tu in mulabs yeth benedictus frictus frentris tui , sweet iesus , amen ; was as effectual a prayer if she meant it so , as could be uttered by the most skilful priest. § . . . but the universal consent of the christian church is pleaded for this practice , only protestants excepted , and therefore it is insolent madness in them to oppose it , as st. austin saith : but we had however rather follow st. paul , who saith it were madness to practise it . but i assure you , madam , we are not to take all things for granted which are told us by them concerning the opinions and practices of the eastern churches : ( as i may in time discover ) but in this ; he saith ▪ our own protestant authors of the bible of many languages lond. a. d. . do confess that in most of the sects of the christians , they have not only the scriptures : but also the liturgies and rituals in a tongue unknown but to the learned : from which he concludes this to be an universal practice both in the primitive greek and latin churches , and in these latter sects of eastern christians . it were a very pleasant enquiry , how in the primitive greek and latin churches the service could be in an unknown language , when greek and latin were the mother tongues of those churches ? doth he think they did not understand their own mother tongues ? how many of their own writers have confessed , that in the primitive churches all publick offices of religion were performed in the proper language of every countrey , which in express words is affirmed by origen against celsus : and some of the church of rome have been so ingenuous to confess , it were much better that custome were restored again . so cassander affirms of cajetan , and that being reproved for it , he said , he learned this ) doctrine from st. paul , cor. . and the title of the twenty eighth chapter of cassander his liturgicks is , that the antients read the canonical prayer and the consecration of the eucharist , so as the people did understand it and say amen . lyra saith , that all publick offices of religion were in the primitive church performed in the vulgar tongue . so that it was not upon the account of any sanctity in the greek or latin , that they were more used , but because they were more generally understood . on which account pope innocent the third gave strict command , that where people of different languages did inhabit , care should be taken to provide men able to administer sacraments , and instruct them in their several tongues ; which decree of his is inserted in the canon law ; and was not intended out of honour to the greek and latin tongues only , but the advantage of the people . so likewise iohn the eighth yielded to the prince of moravia , to have their liturgy in the sclavonian tongue , because st. paul saith , let every tongue praise the lord : which is the reason given by the pope in his letter extant in baronius , and not meerly on the account of a present necessity for want of priests who could read latin , as bellarmin conjectures , for he appoints it should be first read in the sclavonian tongue . if this were then a catholick practice , these popes were hugely to blame to give way to the breach of it . and walafridus strabo saith in his time , among the scythians , the divine offices were performed in the german tongue ; which was common to them and the germans . but our own protestant writers , he saith , own this to be in use in the most sects of christians . i have endeavoured to find this confession in the preface cited by him , but i cannot meet with it , and the learned bishop who writ it , understood these things , better than to write so . it is true he saith ( not in the preface , but proleg . . n. . ) that the syriack tongue is the tongue of the learned among the christians throughout the east , as appears by the liturgies and divine offices , which are almost every where performed in this language , although it be the mother-tongue now only to a few about mount libanus : but any one who enquires into a catholick practice , must not meerly give an account of the most eastern christians of whom he here speaks . for there are many considerable churches besides these , which do to this day use their own language in their liturgies , as their own writers attest : but i need not go about to prove this , since bellarmin confesseth , that the armenians , aethiopians , aegyptians , russians and others do it , but he saith , he is no more moved by these , than by the practice of protestants : but we cannot but be moved so far by it , as thereby to see that the practice of the church of rome is no more a catholick practice , than it is founded either on scripture or reason . § . . . i said the sincerity of devotion was obstructed by making the efficacy of sacraments to depend on the bare administration whether our minds be prepared for them or not . this , he saith , he had rather look upon as a mistake , than a calumny , having never read any council wherein this doctrine is defined , and as to the sacrament of pennance ( which he supposeth i chiefly mean ) the council of trent hath determined it to be a calumny for any to say , that according to their doctrine it doth confer grace without the good motion of the receiver . madam , i either expected he should have understood the doctrine of his own party better , or been more ingenuous in confessing it . for my quarrel had no particular respect to the sacrament of pennance , more than to any other sacrament of theirs ; and if i can make it appear , that it is their doctrine , that the efficacy of sacraments doth not depend upon the preparation of the receiver , but the bare administration , or the external work done , i need not add much to shew how much this doth obstruct the sincerity of devotion . it had been an opinion long received in the schools , although with different wayes of explication , that the sacraments of the new law differed from those of the old in this , that the efficacy of those of the old law in conferring grace , did depend upon what they called opus operantis , i. e. the faith and devotion of the receiver of them ; but that the sacraments of the new law did confer grace ex opere operato , i. e. by the thing it self , without any dependence therein upon the internal motion or preparation of mind in him that did partake of them . this doctrine began to be in a particular manner applyed to the mass , because that contained christ in a more especial way than any other sacrament , thence it was believed and asserted , that it did produce saving effects , as remission of sins and true grace , although we should suppose an impossible thing , that no man in the world had any true grace ; as baptism takes away original sin , and gives grace to the infant baptized , whatever the sins of men are . these are the expressions of one of their profound doctors . and therefore they distinguished the efficacy of the work done , not barely from the dignity of the priest , and the merit of the receiver , but from the devotion and preparation of mind which the receiver came with . which bellarmin himself cannot deny , only two things he saith to take off the odium of it . one is , that they do not wholly exclude them , but only from the efficacy of sacraments ; which , he saith , is effectually proved by the case of infants , that it doth not depend upon any quality of the receiver : the other , that though the mass as a sacrament , may not profit those who are not duly prepared , yet as a sacrifice it may . by which these things are evident : . that the efficacy of the sacraments in conferring grace , doth not at all depend upon the qualification of the receiver . . that although upon other accounts some dispositions are required in adult persons to receive the benefit of them as sacraments , yet the effect of the mass as a sacrifice , is not at all hindered by want of them . if it were a thing possible , i would willingly understand what they mean by sacraments conferring grace ex opere operato ( which are not only the express terms of the council of trent , but an anathema is denounced against any one who denyes it . ) for the manner of it is declared by themselves to be unintelligible , and no wonder , for they suppose grace to be contained in the sacrament ( and it is defined with an anathema by the council of trent ) and by the sacrament of it self it is conveyed into the heart of a man ; but whether it be contained as in an univocal cause , as in an instrument , or as in a sign ; whether it be conferred by the sacraments as physical , or as moral causes , whether by a power inherent in the sacraments themselves ; or a power assistent concurring with the sacraments ; whether it be conveyed as physick in a cup , or as heat to water by a red hot iron , or as healing to the person who touched the hemm of our saviours garment ; whether they produce only a next disposition to grace , or not the grace it self , but the union of grace with the soul , or ( which is the most common opinion ) that physical action whereby grace is produced which doth truly , really and physically depend upon the sacraments ( meaning thereby the external action of administring them ) these are looked on as great riddles among them , and so they ought to be ; but these things , say they , need not be determined , nor the manner of the thing be understood , no more than those who were miraculously healed , did the manner of the cure ; a very proper instance , if the matter of fact were as evident in one , as it is the other . but if i should say , that the wearing a cap of a certain figure would certainly convey wit and understanding into a man , and the meer putting it on was enough to produce the effect : and a person should tell me it was an unintelligible thing , were it enough think you , as bellarmin doth in this case , to run to other mysteries of faith and nature which are as hard as that ? by this consequence no man ought to be charged with believing absurd and unreasonable things , and the trinity and resurrection shall serve to justifie the fables of the alcoran as well as the doctrine of transubstantiation and the efficacy of the sacraments ex opere operato . we could easily dispense with the barbarous terms and ungrammaticalness of them , if there were any thing under them , that were capable of being understood ; but that is not the greatest quarrel i have with this doctrine ; for i say , still notwithstanding all the tricks and arts which have been used to palliate it , it doth obstruct the sincerity of devotion , by making the exercise of it by the preparation of our minds for the use of sacraments to be unnecessary . for if grace be effectually conferred by the force of the bare external action , which is acknowledged by them all , what need can there be of a due preparation of mind by the exercise of faith , prayer , repentance , &c. in order to the receiving the benefit of them ? yes , say they , the internal disposition of the mind is necessary to remove impediments , and to make a subject capable of receiving it : as driness in wood to make it burn : but what do they mean by this internal disposition of mind ? the exercise of the graces and duties i mentioned ? by no means : but that there be no mortal sin unconfessed , that there be no actual opposition in the will to the sacrament , as for instance , if a man when he is going to be baptized , resolves with himself that he will not be baptized ; or while he is baptizing , that he will not believe in father , son and holy ghost ; nor renounce the devil and all his works . this indeed they say hinders the efficacy of sacraments , but not the bare want of devotion ; and if want of devotion doth not hinder grace being received , what arguments can men use to perswade persons to it ? who will undergo so strict an examination of himself , and endeavour to raise his mind to a due preparation for the participation of sacraments , if he knows before hand that he shall certainly receive grace by the sacraments without it ? and surely they will not say , but what doth obstruct the exercise of these things , doth very much hinder devotion . if men had a mind to banish it out of the world , they could never do it under a fairer pretence , than that grace , and consequently the effects of it may be obtained without it : and i do not question but this doctrine hath been one of the great causes of the corrupt lives of those who believe it ? from hence the trade of saying masses hath proved so gainful , and such multitudes of them have been procured for the benefit of particular persons , this being a much easier way of procuring grace and salvation , than fervent prayer , constant endeavours after a holy life , mortification , watchfulness and other things we make necessary to enjoy the benefit of what christ hath done and suffered for us . and these things have been complained of , by persons of their own communion who have had any zeal for devotion , and the practice of true goodness . cassander , although he denyes the doctrine of the efficacy of the sacraments without the devotion of the receiver , to be the received doctrine of the roman church , yet cannot deny , but such a pharisaical opinion ( as he calls it ) had possessed the minds of many of those who did celebrate masses , and were present at them : and that too just an occasion was given to those who upbraid them with that opinion , because of the multitude of masses which were celebrated by impure and wicked priests meerly for gain , at which those who are present , think they depart from them with a great deal of sanctity , although they never once resolve to change their lives , but return from thence immediately to their former sins . mons. arnauld in his book of frequent communion ( written upon that occasion ) confesseth , that some in the roman church by their doctrine and instructions given to persons did destroy all preparations as unnecessary to the partaking the benefits of the eucharist , and that the worst persons might come without fear to it . and that the most required as necessary by them , is only the sacrament of penance to recover grace by , which he saith , they reduce to bare confession ; and that this by them is not made necessary neither by the more probable opinion , but only being at that time free from the guilt of mortal sin . it is not to be denyed that mons ▪ arnauld hath proved sufficiently the other opinion to be most consonant to scripture and fathers , and the rules of a christian life ; but when that is granted , the other opinion is yet more agreeable to the doctrine of the roman church . for although cassander produce some particular testimonies against it of persons in that church ; yet we must appeal for the sense of their church , to the decrees of the council of trent ; which are so contrived , as not to condemn the grossest doctrine of the opus operatum . for when it doth determine , that whosoever shall say , that the sacraments do not confer grace ex opere operato shall be anathema , it cannot be interpreted according to the sense of cassander and those he mentions , that the efficacy of sacraments doth not depend upon the worth of the priest : for the twelfth canon relates to that , whosoever shall say , that the minister being in mortal sin , although he useth all the essentials to a sacrament , yet doth not celebrate a sacrament , let him be anathema . those reverend fathers were not sure so prodigal of their anathema's , to bestow two of them upon the same thing : their meaning then in the eighth canon must be distinct from the twelfth , and if it be so , the opus operatum cannot have respect to the worth of the priest , but the devotion of the receiver , and it is there opposed to the faith of the divine promise . this will appear more plain by the account given of it in the history of that council . after , they treated of condemning those , who deny sacraments do confer grace to him that putteth not a barr , or do not confess , that grace is contained in the sacraments , and conferred , not by vertue of faith , but ex opere operato , but coming to expound how it is contained , and their causality , every one did agree , that grace is gained by all those actions that excite devotion , which proceedeth not from the force of the work it self , but from the vertue of devotion , which is in the worker , and these are said in the schools to cause grace ex opere operantis . there are other actions which cause grace , not by the devotion of him that worketh , or him that receiveth the work , but by vertue of the work it self ; such are the christian sacraments , by which grace is received , so that there be no barr of mortal sin to exclude it , though there be not any devotion . so by the work of baptism , grace is given to the infant , whose mind is not moved towards it , and to one born a fool , because there is no impediment of sin . the sacrament of chrisme doth the like , and that of extream vnction , though the sick man hath lost his memory . but he that hath mortal sin , and doth persevere actually or habitually , cannot receive grace by reason of the contrariety , not because the sacrament hath not vertue to produce it ex opere operato , but because the receiver is not capable , being possessed with a contrary quality . i dare now appeal to the most indifferent judge , whether what i objected to them concerning the efficacy of sacraments , whether the minds of the receivers of them be prepared or no , were not so far from being a calum●y , that there is not so much as the least mistake in it : if the doctrine of the council of trent be embraced by them . and any one who shall consider their number of sacraments , and the admirable effects of every one of them , may very well wonder how any man among them should want grace , or have any devotion ? for grace being conferred by the sacraments at so many convenient seasons of his life , whether he hath any devotion or no , he is sure of grace , if he doth but partake of their sacraments , and need need not trouble himself much about devotion , since his work may be done without it . never any doctrine was certainly better contrived for the satisfaction of impenitent sinners than theirs is . our saviour seems very churlish and severe when he calls sinners to repentance , that they may be saved ; but they have found out a much easier and smoother passage , like that of a man in a boat , that may sleep all the while , and land safe at last . not so much as the use of reason is required for the effect of that blessed sacrament of extream vnction , by which like a ship for a long voyage , a person is pitched and calked for eternity . surely , it is the hardest thing that may be , for any one to want grace among them , if they do but suffer the vse of sacraments upon them , and they are the gentlest givers of it imaginable , for all they desire of their patients for grace , is only for them to lye still ; but if they should chance to be unruly , and kick away the priests , or their rites of chrisme , i know not then what may become of them . yet the church of rome hath been so indulgent in this case , that supposing men under a delirium , or wholly insensible , if before it be but probable they desired it , or gave any signs of contrition , it ought not to be omitted ; alwayes provided , that those who are mad do nothing against the reverence of the sacrament . that being secured , their work is done ; and if any sins have remained upon them ; they are taken off by vertue of this sacred vnction ; and being thus anointed like the athletae of old they are prepared to wrestle with all the powers of the air , who can then fasten no hold upon them . yet to be just to them , the roman ritual saith , that impenitent persons , and those who dye in mortal sin and excommunicate and unbaptized are to be denyed extream vnction . a hard case for those who dye in mortal sin ! for if they could but express any sign of contrition , by the motion of an eye or a finger , all were well enough ? and for the impenitent , we are not to imagine them so cruel to account any so , but such who refuse the sacrament of pennance ; the summ of it then is , if a man when he is like to live , and therefore to sin no longer , doth but probably express some signs of contrition , and doth not refuse the sacrament of pennance , if time and the condition of the patient permit the using it , then he is to have grace conferred on him by this last sacrament which he is sure to receive , although he be no more sensible what they are doing about him , than if he were dead already . so that upon the whole matter , i begin to wonder how any sort of men in the church of rome can be afraid of falling so low as purgatory : i had thought so much grace as is given them by every sacrament ( where there are so many , and some of them so often used ) might have served to carry one to heaven ; they receive a stock of grace in baptism , before they could think of it ; if they lose any in childhood , that is supplyed again by the sacrament of chrisme or confirmation ; if they fall into actual sins , and so lose it , it is but confessing to the priest and receiving absolution , and they are set up again with a new stock : and it is a hard case , if that be not increased by frequent masses , at every one of which he receives more ; and although priests want the comfortable grace that is to be received by the sacrament of matrimony , yet they may easily make it up by the number of masses : and to make all sure at last , the extream vnction very sweetly conveyes grace into them whether they be sensible or not . but all this while , what becomes of purgatory ? that is like to be left very desolate ; if the interest of that opinion were not greater , than the evidence for the sacraments conferring grace ex opere operato . let them seek to reconcile them if they can , it is sufficient for our purpose , that both of them tend to destroy the sincerity of devotion , and the necessity of a good life . § . . . i said the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed by discouraging tdiscourahe reading of the scriptures , which is our most certain rule of faith and life . to this he answers two wayes : . that their churches prudential dispensing the reading the scriptures to persons whom she judges fit and disposed for it , and not to such whom she judges in a condition to receive or do harm by it , is no discouraging the reading of them ; any more than a father may be said to discourage his child , because he will not put a knife or a sword into his hands , when he foresees he will do mischief with it to himself or others ; and the scriptures , he saith , are no other in the hands of one who doth not submit his judgement in the interpretation of it to that of the church ; the doing of which he makes the character of a meek and humble soul , and the contrary of an arrogant and presumptuous spirit . . that the ill consequences of permitting the promiscuous reading of scripture were complained of by henry the eighth , who was the first that gave way to it ; and if his judgement ought not to be followed in after times , let the dire effects of so many sects and fanaticisms as have risen in england from the reading of it , bear witness . for all heresies arise , saith st. austin , from misunderstanding the scriptures ; and therefore the scripture being left as among protestants to the private interpretation of every fanciful spirit , cannot be a most certain rule of faith and life . in which answer are three things to be discussed : . whether that prudential dispensing the scriptures as he calls it , be any hinderance to devotion or no ? . whether the reading of the scriptures be the cause of the numbers of sects and fanaticisms which have been in england ? . whether our opinion concerning the reading and interpreting scripture , doth hinder it from being a most certain rule of faith and life ? . whether that prudential dispensing the scriptures used in the church of rome , doth hinder devotion or no ? this prudential dispensing i suppose he means , the allowing no persons to read the scriptures in their own tongue , without licence under the hand of the bishop or inquisitor , by the advice of the priest or confessor concerning the persons fitness for it ; and whosoever presumes to do otherwise , is to be denyed absolution . for this is the express command in the fourth rule of the index published by order of the council of trent , and set forth by the authority of pius the fourth , and since by clement the eighth , and now lately inlarged by alexander the seventh . and whether this tends to the promoting or discouraging the sincerity of devotion will appear , by considering these things . . that it is agreed on both sides , that the scriptures do contain in them the unquestionable will of that god whom we are bound to serve . and it being the end of devotion ( as it ought to be of our lives ) to serve him ; what is there the mind of any one who sincerely desires to do it , can be more inquisitive after , or satisfied in , than the rules god himself hath given for his own service ? because it is so easie a matter for men to mistake in the wayes they choose to serve him in ; i see the world divided more scarce about any thing than this . some think god ought to be worshipped by offering up sacrifices to him of those things we receive from his bounty : others , that we ought to offer up none to him now , but our selves in a holy life and actions . some , that god is pleased by abstaining from flesh or any living creature ; and others , that he is much better pleased with eating fish than flesh , and that a full meal of one is at some times mortification and fasting ; and eating temperately of the other , is luxury and irreligion . some think , no sight more pleasing to god , than to see men lash and whip themselves for their sins , till the blood comes ; others that he is as well pleased at least , with hearty repentance , and sincere obedience without this . some , that frequent crossing themselves , going in pilgrimage to the images of saints , baptizing bells , being sprinckled with holy water , and buried in a monks habit , are great acts of devotion ; and others , that they are superstitious fooleries . some think that unless they make confession of their sins to a priest , they cannot be pardoned ; others , that sincere confession to god , is sufficient , and the other never necessary to the pardon of sin , though it may be sometimes useful to the ease of the sinner . some , that they honour god by setting up images of him , and worshipping them for his sake , by addressing themselves to saints and angels to be intercessors with him ; and others , that they cannot dishonour god more , than by these things . some , that they may pray for what they do not understand , as well as what they do ; others , that since men expect to be answered in their prayers , they ought to understand what they say in them . since these and other disputes are in the world , not barely between christians and those of other religions , but among christians themselves , what course should a person take , who desires to be satisfied ? for he finds the several parties divided about them . can any man imagine a better way , if it could be hoped for , than that god himself should interpose , and declare his own mind according to what way they ought to serve him ? and this is acknowledged to be done already by all christians in the scriptures ; and after all this , must not all persons concerned , be allowed to enquire into that which is owned to be the will of god ? or do they think that ordinary people , that understand not latin or greek , ought not to be concerned what becomes of their souls ? if they be and do in good earnest desire to know how to please god , and to serve him ; what directions will they give him ? if they tell him , they must do as they are bidden ; true , say they , if we were to worship you for gods , we would do as you bid us , for we think it fitting to serve god in his own way . but we would know , whether that god whom we serve , hath given us any rules for his worship or no ? yes , say the priests of the roman church , he hath done so , but it is not fit for you to see them . to what end , say the people then , were they given , if they may not be seen ? how shall we know whether we keep them or no , or will you take upon you the guilt of our sins in disobeying his will , since you will not let us know what it is ? this seems to be a very just and reasonable request , and i fear it will one day fall heavy upon those , who conceal that which they confess to be the will of god from the knowledge of the people . and it hath been ingenuously acknowledged by some in the roman church , that the people would never be kept to that way of devotion they are in there , if they were suffered to read the scriptures ; but the more shame the mean time for those who impose such things upon them under a pretence of devotion which are so repugnant to the will of god. but the same reason which hath made them leave out the second commandment in their offices of devotion , hath brought them to so severe a prohibition of reading the scriptures in a known language , but where themselves are already so secure of the persons that they dare to give way to it : and that is , lest their consciences should start and boggle at the breaking a command of god , when they pretended to serve him . § . . . that no objection can be now made against the peoples reading the scriptures , but would have held against the publishing them in a language to be understood by the people . for were the people less ignorant and heady , less presumptuous and opinionative then , than they are now ? was not there the same danger of mistaking their sense at that time ? was not the people of israel as refractory and disobedient as any have been since ? were they not as apt to quarrel with divine laws and the authority god had set up among them ? did not they fall into sects and divers opinions by misunderstanding the law ? yet were these reasons then thought sufficient for god not to make known his law to all the people ; but to commit it only to aaron and the priests for them prudentially to dispense it to them ? no ; so far from it , that strict care was taken to make the people understand it , particular commands given for this very end , and the law on purpose declared to be easie and intelligible , that they might not make its obscurity a pretence for their ignorance . was not this law given them as a rule to direct themselves by ? were not all sent to this to learn to govern their actions ? wherewithall shall a young man cleanse his wayes , by taking heed thereto according to thy word . is not this law said to convert the soul , and to make wise the simple ? and was that done by not understanding it ? was it not the delight , exercise , and continual meditation of those who were truly devout among them ? but how comes our case to be so much worse under christianity ? is the law of christ so much more difficult and obscure than the law of moses ? is not his sermon on the mount , wherein he delivers the rules of a christian life , as plain as any chapter in leviticus ? what doth the gospel teach men , but to be and to do good , to love all men , and to love god above all , to believe in christ and to obey his commands , to repent of sins past and to live no longer in them , and in short , so to live in this world as they hope to live with god in happiness hereafter ? and are these things so hard to be understood , that the people ought not to be made acquainted with them in their own language ? or is there any danger they should know them too well ? was ever the law of moses more perverted by false interpretations than in our saviours time by the scribes and pharisees ? why doth not he then take some other care for his own law to prevent this for the future , if that had been judged by him the proper way of cure ? but thereby we see the mistakes of the people are owing to their teachers , and there can be no means to prevent errours in the people but by stopping them at the fountain heads from whence they run down among them . for the common people might have had a better notion of religion , if their minds had not been corrupted by the traditions and glosses of the pharisees . therefore methinks they have not gone the wisest way to work in the church of rome ; instead of this prudential dispensing the scriptures , their only way had been to have destroyed them , as dioclesian their predecessour in this kind of prudence once designed . for let them assure themselves , they who understand greek and latin are the persons they have ten times more cause to fear than the common people . and considering the advantage they once had by the horrible ignorance of priests and people , it must be imputed only to the watchful eye of divine providence , that the scriptures ( being of so little use in the roman church ) have been preserved entire to our dayes . there had been no such means in the world to have prevented a reformation as this ; for they are not out when they take the scripture so much for their enemy , as appears by the force and restraint they put upon it , and the fear and jealousie they are in about it continually . if it had not been for this , would any one have compared the scriptures , in the hands of the common people as my adversary doth , to a sword in a mad mans hand ? is it of so destructive a nature , and framed for no other use than a sword is ? which nothing but discretion keeps a man from doing mischief by ; and all the way a man hath ( though never so meek and humble ) to defend himself by it , is by destroying his enemy with it , if he continues his assault . these expressions do not argue any kindness to the scripture , nor an apprehension of any great good comes to the world by it ; but that really men might have been more at ease and fewer differences in religion had happened , if all the copies of the bible had been lost assoon as the pope had placed himself in his infallible chair . this design was once attempted , as i shall shew afterwards , but failed of success : and i know not how far the principles of this prudence may carry them , if ever such a season should fall into their hands again ; having found so much trouble to them from the scriptures and so little benefit by them , their church being once owned as infallible . for i would fain know whether the scripture hath not done more mischief according to them in the hands of the reformers , than it can be supposed to do in the hands of the common people . if it must be a sword in a mad mans hand , whether the more strength and cunning such a one hath , he be not capable of doing so much the more mischief by it ? and if it were possible to get it out of such a mans hands , whether it were not the highest prudence , and care of the publick safety to do it ? it can be then nothing but the impossibility of the thing , which makes them suffer the scripture to be in the hands of any who are capable of doing mischief by it ; and the more mischief they may do , the more desirable and prudential it is to take it from them . but all men see none are so capable of doing mischief thereby , as men of the greatest wit and learning , and that have the fairest appearance of piety to the world : the consequence then of this doctrine is , if pursued to the true design of it , that the scripture should be kept if possible out of the hands of the most subtle , learned and pious men above all others , if they be not true to the interests of the roman church ? it is but a meer shew to pretend only to keep the people in order , ( for when are they otherwise but when cunning men have the managing of them ? ) the true meaning of this principle is , that it will never be well with the world till the books of scripture are all burnt which are abroad , and that only one original be preserved in the vatican to justifie the popes title to infallibility , and that ( as the sybilline oracles of old , ) never to be consulted but in cases of great extremity , and that under the inspection of some very trusty officers , nor to be interpreted but by the pope himself . if i were of the church of rome , and owned the principles of it , i must needs have condemned the great men of it in former times for want of prudence in this matter ; that would have served their turn much better than forging so many decretal epistles , falsifying so many testimonies , perverting so many texts of scripture to maintain the dignity of the papal chair . there was only one small circumstance wanting , ( their good will we have no cause to question ) and that was the possibility of it ; for although the roman church called it self catholick , they were wise enough to know , there were many considerable churches in the world besides theirs , where the scriptures were preserved , and from whence copies might be procured by persons who would be so much the more inquisitive , the more they were forbidden to get it . therefore they pitched upon an easier way , and finding the people under a very competent degree of ignorance , they indulged them and soothed them up in it , and told them they could never miss the way to heaven , though never so narrow , in the dark . their only danger was too much light , for then probably they might be in a great dispute , whether the broad way was not the true ; for there they saw most of their friends and leaders . and while they kept the people in this profound ignorance and superstition , they jogged on in their opinion , as securely to heaven , as ignatius loyola's mule did to mount-serrat , when he laid his bridle on his neck , to see whether he would take the way to pursue the moor , which was the more beaten track , or the more craggy and untrodden way to that place of devotion , and by a mighty providence , ( and i suppose a little help of the rider ) the beast took the more narrow way . but when persons began to be awakened by learning , and thereby grew inquisitive in all matters and so by degrees in those of religion , they then espied their errour in letting such a book lye abroad in so many hands , from whence so many irresistible arguments were drawn against the doctrine and practices of the roman church . this i assure my self , is the true ground of the quarrels against the reading the scriptures ; but that being now irremediable , they betake themselves to smaller arts , and endeavour to hinder any one particular person whom they have the least suspicion of , from meddling with a book so dangerous to their church and religion . § . . for if this were not it , what makes them to be more jealous of the use of the scriptures , than ever the christians were in former ages ? was there not much more danger of misunderstanding the doctrine of the gospel at first than ever after ? nay were there not very many who were false apostles and great and dangerous hereticks , presumptuous and arrogant , if ever any were ? but did christ or his apostles for all this , think it unfit to communicate the doctrine of the gospel to the people ; or were the books containing it written in languages not to be understood by them ? no , they chose the most popular languages of that time , most largely spread and generally understood . the apostles never told their disciples of the danger of reading the divine writings that were among them , when they were first spread abroad ; and never so proper a season to give them caution as then . but instead of that , they advise them to take heed to the sure word of prophecy , and that they did well therein , that the scriptures were written for their instruction and comfort , that being divinely inspired they were able to make them wise unto salvation . what , did the apostles never imagine all this while the ill use that might be made of them by men of perverse minds ? yes , they knew it as well as any , and did foretell schismes and heresies that should be in the church , and saw them in their own dayes ; and yet poor men , wanted that exquisite prudence of the roman church , to prevent them , by so happy an expedient as when they had written epistles to several churches , to forbid the promiscuous reading of them . but it may be , it was the awe of the apostles and their infallible spirit in interpreting scripture , made this prohibition not so necessary in their own time ; did the church then find it necessary to restrain the people after their decease ? we have an occasion soon after given , wherein to see the opinion of the church at that time ; the church of corinth fell into a grievous schisme and opposition to their spiritual governours : upon this clemens writes his epistle to them , wherein he is so far from forbidding the use of scripture to them to preserve unity , that he bidds them look diligently into the scriptures , which are the true oracles of the holy ghost : and afterwards , take st. pauls epistle into your hands , and consider what he saith and commends them very much for being skilled in the scriptures : beloved , saith he , ye have known , and very well known the holy scriptures , and ye have throughly looked into the oracles of god , therefore call them to mind . which language is as far different from that of the roman church , as the church of that age is from theirs . nay the counterfeit clemens ( whom they can make use of upon other occasions ) is as express in this matter as the true . for he perswades private christians to continual meditation in the scriptures , which he calls the oracles of christ ; and that this is the best imployment of their retirements . but we need not use his testimony in this matter , nor the old edition of ignatius , wherein parents are bid to instruct their children in the holy scriptures , nor that saying of polycarp to the philippians out of the old latin edition , i am confident you are well studied in the scriptures ; for in the greek yet preserved , he exhorts them to the reading of st. pauls epistles that they might be built up in the faith . so little did these holy men dream of such a prudent dispensing the scriptures among them , for fear of mischief they might do themselves or others by them . clemens alexandrinus mentions the reading the scriptures among christians before their meales , and psalmes and hymns at them ; and tertullian mentions the same custome . origen in the greek commentaries lately published , perswades christians by all means , by attending to reading , prayer , teaching , meditation therein day and night , to lay up in their hearts not only the new oracles of the gospell , apostles and apocalypse , but the old ones too of the law and the prophets . and elsewhere tells his hearers , they ought not to be discouraged if they met with difficulties in reading the scriptures : for there was great benefit to be had by them . but lest it should be thought he speaks here only of publick reading the scriptures , in his homilies on leviticus he speaks plainly , that he would not only have them hear the word of god in publick , but to be exercised and meditate therein in their houses night and day ; for christ is every where present , and therefore they are commanded in the law , to meditate therein upon their journeys , and when they sit in their houses , and when they lye down and rise up . but had not the church yet experience enough of the mischief of permitting the scriptures to the people ? were there ever greater and more notorious heresies than in those first ages of the church , and those arising from perverting the words and designes of the scriptures ? but did the church yet afterwards grow wiser in the sense of the roman church ? in the time of the four general councils they had tryal enough of the mischief of heresies , but did the fathers of the church forbid the reading the scriptures on that account ? no , but instead of that they commend the scriptures to all , as the best remedy for all passions of the mind , so st. basil , and st. hierome call it , and this latter commends nothing more to the women he instructed in devotion , than constant reading the scriptures ; and withall they say that infinite evils do arise from ignorance of the scriptures ; from hence most part of heresies have come , from hence a negligent and careless life ; and unfruitful labours . nay so frequent , so earnest and vehement is st. chrysostome in this matter of recommending the reading of scriptures , that those of the roman church have no other way to answer him , but by saying he speaks hyperbolically ; which in plain english is , he speaks too much of it . but how far different were the opinions of the wise men of the church in those times , from what those have thought who understood the interest of the roman church best ? we may see what the opinion of the latter is , by the counsel given to iulius . by the bishops met at bononia for that end , to give the best advice they could for restoring the dignity of the roman see , that which was the greatest and weightiest of all , they said , they reserved to the last , which was that by all means as little of the gospel as might be especially in the vulgar tongue , be read in the cities under his jurisdiction ; and that little which was in the mass ought to be sufficient ; neither should it be permitted to any mortal to read more . for as long as men were contented with that little , all things went well with them , but quite otherwise since more was commonly read . for this , in short , is that book , say they , which above all others hath raised those tempests and whirlewinds , which we are almost carryed away with : and in truth , if any one diligently considers it , and compares it with what is done in our churches , will find them very contrary to each other ; and our very doctrine not only to be different from it but repugnant to it . a very fair and ingenuos confession ! and if self-condemned persons be hereticks , there can be none greater than those of the roman church , especially the prudential men in it , such as these certainly were , whom the pope singled out to give advice in these matters . but how different is the wisdom of the children of this world from that of the children of light ! we have already seen what another kind of judgement the ancient fathers had of the usefulness of scriptures to the people , than they have in the roman church : but we need not more to prove it , since it is acknowledged by those who are against the reading the scriptures by the people , that it was otherwise in the primitive church ; so alphonsus à castro and sixtus senensis confess . espencaeus quotes many plain places from st. austin and st. chrysostom to prove , that the people ought to be very diligent in reading the scriptures in their own houses , and that nothing should excuse them from it : and confesseth that st. pauls precept , colos. . let the word of god dwell richly in you was intended for the people , and that they ought to have it among them not only sufficiently but abundantly . the sum of this argument is , that the reasons now urged against the peoples reading the scriptures would have held against the publishing of them in a language to be understood by the people ; that they saw the same inconveniencies which are objected now , and yet commended the reading the scriptures to all , that in all the primitive church , the practice was not only retained but vehemently urged , after all the heresies which had risen in the church in their time ; and therefore for the church of rome to account it wisdome to keep the people from it , is to charge not only the fathers of the church with folly , but the apostles , and our saviour , and god himself . chap. iv. of the fanaticism of the roman church . the unreasonableness of objecting sects and fanaticisms to us as the effects of reading the scriptures . fanaticism countenanced in the roman church , but condemned by ours . private revelations made among them the grounds of believing some points of doctrine , proved from their own authors . of the revelations pleaded for the immaculate conception . the revelations of s. brigitt and s. catharin directly contrary in this point , yet both owned in the church of rome . the large approbations of s. brigitts by popes and councils ; and both their revelations acknowledged to be divine in the lessons read upon their dayes . s. catharines wonderful faculty of smelling souls , a gift peculiar to her and philip nerius . the vain attempts of reconciling those revelations . the great number of female revelations approved in the roman church . purgatory , transubstantiation , auricular confession proved by visions and revelations . festivals appointed upon the credit of revelations : the feast of corpus christi on the revelation made to juliana , the story of it related from their own writers : no such things can be objected to our church . revelations still owned by them ; proved from the fanatick revelations of mother juliana very lately published by mr. cressy : some instances of the blasphemous nonsense contained in them . the monastick orders founded in enthusiasm . an account of the great fanaticism of s. benedict , and s. romoaldus : their hatred of humane learning , and strange visions and revelations . the carthusian order founded upon a vision . the carmelites vision of their habit . the franciscan and dominican orders founded on fanaticism , and seen in a vision of innocent the third to be the great supporters of the roman church . the quakerism of s. francis described from their best authors . his ignorance , extasies and fanatick preaching . the vision of dominicus . the blasphemous enthusiasm of the mendicant fryers . the history of it related at large . of the evangelium aeternum , and the blasphemies contained in it . the author of it supposed to be the general of the franciscan order , however owned by the fryers , and read and preached at paris . the opposition to it by the vniversity : but favoured by the popes . gul. s. amour writing against it , his book publickly burnt , by order of the court of rome . the popes horrible partiality to the fryers . the fanaticism of the franciscans afterwards . of the followers of petrus johannis de oliva . the spiritual state began ( say they ) from s. francis. the story of his wounds , and maria visitationis paralleld . the canting language used by the spiritual brethren , called beguini , fraticelli , and begardi . of their doctrines about poverty , swearing , perfection , the carnal church and inspiration : by all which , they appear to be a sect of quakers after the order of s. francis. of the schism made by them . the large spreading and long continuance of them . of the apostolici and dulcinistae . of their numerous conventicles . their high opinion of themselves . their zeal against the clergy and tythes ; their doctrine of christian liberty . of the alumbrado's in spain : their disobedience to bishops , obstinate adhering to their own fancies , calling them inspirations , their being above ordinances . ignatius loyola suspected to be one of the illuminati , proved from melchior canus . the iesuites order founded in fanaticism ; a particular account of the romantick enthusiasm of ignatius , from the writers of his own order . whereby it is proved , that he was the greatest pretender to enthusiasm , since the dayes of mahomet and s. francis. ignatius gave no respect to men by words or putting off his hat ; his great ignorance and preaching in the streets : his glorying in his sufferings for it ; his pretence to mortification ; the wayes he used to get disciples . their way of resolution of difficulties by seeking god ; their itinerant preaching in the cities of italy . the sect of quakers a new order of disciples of ignatius , only wanting confirmation from the pope , which ignatius obtained . of the fanatick way of devotion in the roman church . of superstitious and enthusiastical fanaticism among them . of their mystical divinity . mr. cressy's canting in his preface to sancta sophia . of the deiform fund of the soul ; a superessential life , and the way to it . of contemplating with the will. of passive vnions . the method of self-annihilation . of the vnion of nothing with nothing . of the feeling of not-being . the mischief of an unintelligible way of devotion . the utmost effect of this way is gross enthusiasm . mr. cressy's vindication of it examined . the last sort of fanatioism among them , resisting authority under pretence of religion . their principles and practices compared with the fanaticks . how far they are disowned ai present by them . of the vindication of the irish remonstrance . the court of rome hath alwayes favoured that party , which is most destructive to civil government , proved by particular and late instances . § . . . we come to consider whether the reading the scriptures be the cause of all the sects and fanaticisms which have been in england ? he might much better have charged the philosophers , especially aristotle , with all the disputes in the world ; for they not only by their writings have occasioned many , but have taught men the pernicious use of reasoning , without which , the world might be as quiet as a flock of sheep . if they could but perswade men to lay aside that mischievous faculty , i dare undertake for them , that let the people have the bible never so much among them ; they shall never hurt the church of rome . do they not tell us , that the words of scripture are plain for transubstantiation , this is my body , why do not then the people as readily believe that , as any other proposition ? by which we see , it is not meerly reading , but a more dangerous thing , called considering or reasoning which make them embrace some things as they lye in words , and interpret others according to the clearest evidence , which the nature of the thing , the comparing with other places , and the common sense of mankind will give . but why are we not all of a mind ? i would fain know the time when men were so . this variety of sects was objected against the philosophers , and thought no argument then ; it was objected against the primitive christians , and thought of no force then ; why must it signifie more in england , than ever it did in any other age or place ? but say they , it was otherwise in england before the scriptures came to be read by all , it was and is otherwise in all churches where they are not read , therefore these sects and fanaticisms are the dire effects of the promiscuous reading the scriptures . this is the common and popular argument . all things were well with us when we offered up cakes to the queen of heaven ; when all joyned in the communion of the roman church , then there were no fanaticisms , nor new lights , no sects , as there are now in england ; therefore why should any one make any doubt , but he ought to return to the church of rome ? this necessarily leads me into the examination of these two things . . whether there be no danger of fanaticism in the roman church ? . whether the vnity of that church be so admirable to tempt all persons , who prize the churches vnity , to return to it ? § . . concerning the danger of fanaticism in the roman church . by fanaticism we understand either an enthusiastick way of religion , or resisting authority under a pretence of religion . in either sense it shall appear , that the church of rome is so far from being cleared from it , that it hath given great encouragement to it . . as to an enthusiastick way of religion ; i shall now prove , that there have not been greater enthusiasts among us in england , than have been in the roman church ; all the difference is , they have been some alwayes , others for a time , allowed and countenanced and encouraged by those of the church of rome ; but among us they have been decryed and opposed by all the members of the church of england . i shall not insist upon the resolution of faith , and the infallibility of the church , which must be carried to enthusiasm at last ; but i shall prove it by plain revelations which have been made the grounds among them of believing some doctrines in dispute , and the reasons of setting up a more perfect way of life , which in the highest strain of their devotion , is meer enthusiasm . . revelations have been pleaded by them in matters of doctrine ; such i mean which depend upon immediate impulses and inspirations since the canon of scripture and apostolical traditions . of this we have a remarkable instance in a late controversie managed with great heat and interest on both sides , viz. of the immaculate conception of the virgin mary : about the ending of which , a solemn embassy was sent from the kings of spain , philip the third , and philip the fourth to the popes paul the fifth and gregory the thirteenth , and an account is given of it by one concerned himself in the management of the theological part of it , which , he saith , is therefore published , that the world may understand upon what grounds the doctrines of faith are established among them . one of the chief whereof insisted upon was , some private revelations made to some saints about the immaculate conception , which being once received in the church , adds no small strength , he saith , to any doctrine , and gives a solid foundation for a definition : i. e. that the matter may be defined to be of faith , and necessary to be believed by all christians . upon this he reckons up several revelations publickly received in the church , one , mentioned by anselm , being a divine apparition to an abbot in a storm ( a fit time for apparitions ) whereby he was admonished to keep the feast of the conception of the blessed virgin , upon which , as baronius observes , that feast was first kept in england . which revelation wadding tells us , is publickly recited in the office for the day , and was not only extant in several breviaries of england , france , spain and italy ; but he had divers himself authorized by the pope , wherein it was recommended as true and piously to be believed , and accordingly have been publickly sung and used in the church about an hundred years . and what , saith he , is the consequence of disbelieving this , but to say in effect , that the pope and the roman church are easily cheated and abused by impostures , and forgers of false revelations to institute new festival solemnities upon the credit of them ? another revelation was made to norbertus the founder of the order of the praemonstratenses , in which , the virgin mary appeared and commended her veneration to him , and gave him a white garment in token of her original innocency ; which revelation is believed by all of that order , and taken as the reason of their habit . besides these , there are several other revelations to s. gertrude , and others to the same purpose reckoned up by several catholick authors , which no man ought to reject , unless he intends to be as great a heretick ( or therein as wise a man ) as erasmus was . nay , these revelations were so frequent , he saith , that there hath been no age since the tenth century , wherein there hath not been some made to devout men or women about this matter . but above all these , most remarkable were those to s. brigitt , who had not one or two , but many to this purpose ; and the latest were of joanna a cruce , which , it seems , were at first eagerly opposed , but at last came out with the approbation of two cardinals and several bishops of the inquisition in spain . but now who could imagine a thing so often revealed , so publickly allowed , so many times attested from heaven , should not be generally received ? but the mischief of it was , the contrary doctrine had revelations for it too . for antoninus and cajetan say , s. catharine of siena had it revealed to her , that she was conceived with original sin . what is to be done now ? here we have saint against saint , revelation against revelation , s. catharine against s. brigitt , and all the rest of them . here to speak truth , they are somewhat hard put to it ; for they grant god cannot contradict himself , and therefore of one these must be false , but which of them is all the question . here they examine which of these doctrines is most consonant to scripture and tradition , which is most for the benefit of the church , which were persons of the greater sanctity , and whose revelations were the most approved . for. s. brigitts they plead stoutly , that when they were delivered by her to her confessors , they were strictly examined , and after them by the bishops and divines of sweden , and approved as divine revelations ; from them they were sent as such to the council of basil ; from thence they were examined over again at naples , and there allowed and preached in the presence and by command of the queen and archbishop before all the people of the city ; again examined at rome by prelats and cardinals , a. d. . by the popes appointment , and there approved : and a. d. . they are declared by those vrban the sixth committed the new examination of them to , to be authentick , and to come from the spirit of god : and so much is declared by boniface the ninth in the bull of her canonization , and at last approved , saith wadding , at the general council of basil. what could be expected less after this ; than that they should have been received as canonical scriptures , they having never taken so much pains in examining and approving any controverted books of the bible , as they had done about these revelations ? and no man knows how far their authority might have prevailed , if the whole sect of dominicans had not been engaged in the opposite opinion . for nothing else that i can find , hath given any discredit to her revelations but this ; which makes cajetan call them old wives dreams , as wadding confesseth . but it falls out very conveniently , that s. catharines revelation was just in the dominican way in which she had been educated ; and for all that i can see , wants little of the reputation of st. brigitt . for they were both very wonderful persons , and had more familiar reyelations , than any of the prophets we read of . s. brigitt in her childhood ( if we believe the account given of her in the bull of canonization by bonifacius , and her life by vastavius ) had visions as frequently as other children have babyes , and was as well pleased with them ; the virgin mary was once her midwife , as the pope very gravely tells us ; but her revelations ( after christ took her for his spouse ) have filled a great volume . wherein a person that hath leisure enough , may see strange effects of the power of imagination , or a religious melancholy ; and to that book the pope in his bull refers us : and if any thing can be more considerable than the popes authority , the whole roman church in the prayers upon s. brigitts day , do confess these revelations to have come immediately from god to her ; and in one of the lessons for that day , do magnifie the multitude of her divine revelations . but to say truth , the church of rome allows fair play in the case , for it magnifies s. catharine as much as s. brigitt : for her holy extasies are mentioned in the lessons upon her day , in one of which , were five rayes coming from the five wounds of our saviour to five parts of her body ; and she ( being wonderfull humble ) prayed our lord , that the wounds might not appear ( for fear she should have been thought as holy as s. francis ) and immediately the colour of the blood was changed into pure light upon her hands , and feet , and heart . and her confessor raimund ( who is alwayes a principal man in these things , as matthias a suecia was to s. brigitt ) without whom she was advised from heaven to do nothing , saw these splendid wounds upon her body ; ( but by what instrument did he see the wound in her heart ? ) well , though we hereticks are not apt to be too credulous in these cases , the church of rome very gravely tells us in the next lesson ; that her learning was not acquired , but infused , by which she answered the most profound doctors in the most difficult speculations in divinity ; but these were nothing to her revelations and the service she did the church of rome by them in a time of schisme . but one gift she had above s. brigitt , which was that while she was on earth she could not only see , but smell souls too , and could not endure the stench of wicked souls , as raynaldus tells us from her confessor raimund : a gift very few had besides her and philip nerius the father of the oratorians , for raynaldus one of his order , tells us from bacius the writer of his life , that he was sometimes so offended with the smells of filthy souls , that he would desire the persons to empty the iakes of their souls . such divine noses had these two saints among them ! a degree of enthusiasme above the spirit of discerning any quakers among us have ever pretended to . pope pius the second in the bull of canonization of s. catharine , not only acknowledgeth a gift of prophecy to have been in her , but that sometimes her extasies were so great , that she was sensible of no kind of pain in them . and s. brigitt was often seen much above ground in her devotions , and one saw rivers and another fire came out of her mouth ; but i think not at the same time . these are things we rake not the old kennells of the golden legends for , but are at this day allowed and approved of in the roman church ; and their dayes kept , and they prayed to , upon the account of such things as these are . § . . yet still we are to seek what is to be done , when two revelations contradict each other ? for the dominicans are as peremptory for the revelation of s. catharine , as their adversaries are for that of s. brigitt . two bold fellows called henricus de hassia and sybillanus knew no other way , but to reject both as illusions and fancies ; but what becomes then of the popes and councils infallibility , who have approved both ? franciscus picus mirandula being a learned and ingenuous man , confesseth himself at a loss , both being concerning a thing passed , there must be truth on one side , and falshood on the other : for the case is not the same , saith he , as to past and future things , in which a condition may be understood . by which means st. bernard escaped , when he promised great success to an expedition into the holy land , and they who went in it found the quite contrary . but at last gives us leave to conjecture his meaning when he saith , that if any thing be false in a prophecy , though some prove true , we have cause to suspect all ; especially if it come from women , whose judgements are weak , and their passions vehement , and imaginations easily possessed with what they are most desirous of , and least able to distinguish between the strength of imagination , and a divine revelation : but as to that particular case of s. catharine and s. brigitt , where both were women ; he saith , the divines were generally for the former , and the monks for the latter ; but which was in the truth , he thinks cannot be known upon earth . martin del rio discoursing of the revelations of canonized saints who were women in the church of rome , reckons up s. angela a carmelitess , whose book of revelations came out above four hundred years ago , s. gertrude a. d. . s. hildegardis in germany , a. d. . and about the same time s. elizabeth of sconaugh , all whose revelations were published , and the last collected by roger an english cistertian ; and in latter times he mentions s. brigitt , and s. catharine whose revelations , he saith , were opposed by some , but he declares for his part , that he is not at all moved with their arguments , for that would diminish too much the honour due to those holy spouses of christ , as he calls them ; but in truth he confesses , the honour of their church is concerned in it ; for , saith he , several popes upon diligent examination have allowed and approved these revelations , as eugenius the third did those of hildegardis as well as boniface the ninth , those of s. brigitt . for the argument from the contradiction of these revelations , he knows not how to come off , but by a charge of forgery on the dominican side ; and why might not they as well return it on the other ; unless matthias a suetia confessor to s. brigitt were more infallible than raimundus , or those who believed s. catharine . but this is not the only case , wherein these female revelations so much approved by the church of rome are contradictory to each other in those things whereon the proof of a point of doctrine depends . for who knows not to what end the revelation of s. gregoryes delivering the soul of trajan by his prayers , is so frequently urged ? and this is confirmed by a revelation of s. brigitt to that purpose ; from whence salmeron calls it an unanswerable argument , and alphonsus ciacconius published by the popes authority an apology for that revelation . yet baronius tells us , that s. mathildis had a revelation to the contrary , and if it were not contradictory to s. brigitts , it must be contradictory to it self . and therefore he very fairly rejects them all , but with what honour to his church ( which had before approved them ) i can by no means understand . and bellarmin to the revelation of mathildis , ( wherein she desired to know what became of the souls of sampson , solomon , origen and trajan , and god answered her that none should know what he had done with them ) opposes another revelation wherein the soul of origen was seen together with that of arius and nestorius in hell. so infallible are these revelations , even when they contradict each other . how often have visions and apparitions of souls been made use of to prove the doctrine of purgatory ? witness the famous testimonies to this purpose out of s. gregories dialogues , and bedes history ; which latter is at large recited ( being very proper for it ) in the late great legend published by mr. cressy under the name of a church history ; who justifies the substance of the story as far as it concerns the doctrine of purgatory , although he doth not think the person really dead but only in a trance ; which is all one to our purpose as long as such arguments as these , are made use of to prove matters of faith by . we need not go so far back as gabriel biel , to shew that the doctrine of transubstantiation hath been proved by the appearance of a child in a host , such an argument hath been lately published to the world ; and bellarmin reckons up several to this purpose , one , wherein instead of bread was seen real flesh , and another , wherein christ was seen in the form of a child . which are well attended , with st. anthony of padua 's horse , which would never have left his provender to worship the host , unless he had seen some notable sight there . and he very doughtily proves auricular confession , by a certain vision of a tall and terrible man with his book in his hand , which blotted out presently all the sins which the humble thief confessed upon his knees to the priest ; but he hath not proved that terrible man did not represent the devil , who by that ceremony might shew that he turned over the keeping of his books of accompts to the priest , who upon confession , might tell mens sins , as well as he could do without . but they have not only attempted to prove matters of doctrine by these things , but things have been defined in the church meerly upon the credit of private revelations . so the spanish ambassadour urges the pope smartly upon the revelations of st. bridgitt , that there were many of his predecessors that had determined more things in the church partly relying upon private revelations therein , whose authority was not greater than hers were . pius . . he saith , determined the controversie of easter-day upon the credit of a revelation made to hermes . urban . instituted the festival of corpus christi in opposition to the denyers of transubstantiation upon the instinct and revelation of a certain woman . paul the hermite was canonized for a saint upon the authority of a vision and revelation to anthony , the one of his soul flying to heaven , the other of his being there . the feast of the apparition of the arch-angel michael , which is constantly observed in the church of rome , depended upon a revelation to the bishop of siponto and a few drovers upon the mountain garganus . these are things briefly touched by the ambassadour , but it will not be amiss to give a more particular account of those instances which concern the institution of festival solemnities , by which it will appear that they are fanatical even in their superstitions . pope vrban . in the bull still extant for the celebration of corpus christi day , mentions that as one of the great reasons of appointing it , that while he was in a lower capacity he understood that a revelation had been made to certain catholicks that this feast should be observed in the church . this which is only intimated here is at large explained by ioh. diestemius blaerus prior of st. iames in liege , where these things happened . in an hospital hard by the town he tells us , there was a famous virgin called iuliana , which had many extasies and raptures , and so prophetical a spirit as to discern the thoughts and intentions of her neighbours hearts ; she wrestled with devils , discoursed with the apostles , and wrought many miracles . but one thing peculiar to her was , that in her prayers she almost alwayes saw the moon in her brightness , but with a snip taken off from her roundness : at which she was much troubled , but by no means could get it out of her phancy . at last god was pleased to reveal it to her , that the moon signified the present church , and that fraction the want of one solemnity more to be observed in it : upon which she received a command from heaven to proclaim the observation of this solemnity . for twenty years , she prayed that god would excuse her , and make choice of a more worthy person ; but none being found she communicates it to iohannes de lausenna , and he to iacobus de trecis then arch-deacon of liege , and afterwards , vrban . but although all the persons to whom it was communicated highly approved it ; yet she was not satisfied till ( one of her gossips , ) named isabella , after a whole years praying for it had the same thing revealed to her , with that circumstance , that this feast had alwayes been among the secrets of the b. trinity , but now the time was come that it should be published to the world ; and she in one of her extasies saw very distinctly all the heavenly orders upon their faces , supplicating god , that to confirm the faith of christians ; this day might be speedily observed . this isabella was so much intoxicated by this vision , saith the author , that out of the abundance of her spiritual drunkenness ( they are his own words ) she declared she would promote the observing this feast , although the whole world should oppose her . which ( we may well think ) iuliana rejoyced to hear , and hence forwards they joyned counsels to advance this solemnity . iuliana gets an ignorant young priest to draw up an office for it , and while he writ , she prayed , by which the office was so well composed ; that it would melt ( saith he ) the hardest hearts into devotion : and when it was seen by divines , they said it was not written by man , but inspired by god himself . and yet when pope vrban published his bull upon the credit of these revelations , for the celebration of this feast , he appointed tho. aquinas to compose an office for it , and rejected that divine office of iuliana . the epistle of vrban to eva one of the nuns of liege , and a companion of the two virgins is still extant in diestemius and binius about the institution of this feast of corpus christi . and that this was the occasion of this festival , is not delivered alone by diestemius , but by arnoldus bostius and petrus praemonstratensis , by vignier and molanus , ( as binius confesseth of this last , ) who can no more be suspected of partiality in this case than . diestemius ; but we need no other evidence than the popes own bull. the story of the other is remarkable too , for it is read constantly in the roman breviary upon the eighth of may. it came to pass that among the droves of cattle , the bull of a certain inhabitant wandred from the rest , which having long sought for , they found in the entrance of a cave . and when one shot an arrow at him to destroy him , the arrow was driven back again to him that shot it . which thing so affrighted them all , that they durst not come near the cave , the sipontines consult their bishop , who appointed three dayes fasting and prayer to seek god in the case ; after the three dayes the arch-angel gabriel admonisheth the bishop , that place was in his custody , and by that act he shewed , that they ought to worship god there in remembrance of him and his fellow angels . the bishop and people go accordingly thither , and they find the place already formed into the fashion of a temple , and there they perform divine offices , where many miracles were afterwards wrought . not long after pope boniface dedicated the church of st. michael the third of the calends of october in which the church celebrates the memory of all angels , but this day is consecrated to the apparition of michael the arch-angel . thus far the or lessons of the present roman breviary , whereby we understand what infallible grounds the church of rome proceeds upon in all her definitions and observations . § . . and is it not a hard case now , we should be so often told of fanaticism among us , by the members of the roman church ? where are the visions and revelations ever pleaded by us in any matter of doctrine ? did we never discard any of the roman opinions or practices upon the account of revelations made to women or to any private persons ? do we resolve the grounds of any doctrine of ours into any visions and extasies ? have we any festivals kept upon such occasions ? do we collect fanatical revelations , and set them out with comments upon them , as gonsalvus durantus hath done those of st. bridgitt ? have we any mother iuliana's among us ? or do we publish to the world the fanatick revelations of distempered brains as mr. cressy hath very lately done , to the great honour and service of the roman church , the sixteen revelations of divine love shewed to a devout servant of our lord ( and lady too ) called mother juliana ? we have , we thank god , other wayes of imploying our devout retirements , than by reading such fopperies as those are . excellent men ! that debarr the people reading the scriptures in their own tongue , and instead of them put them off with such fooleries , which deserve no other name at the best than the efforts of religious madness . were we to take an estimate of christian religion from such raptures and extasies , such visions and entertainments as those are , how much must we befool our selves to think it sense ? did ever h. n. iacob behmen , or the highest enthusiasts talk at a more extravagant rate than this iuliana doth ? as when she speaks of our being beclosed in the mid-head of god , and in his meek-head , and in his benignity , and in his buxomness , though we feel in us wrath , debate , and strife : of being substantially united to god ; and that , god is that goodness which may not be wrath , for god is not but goodness : our soul is oned to him , unchangeable goodness ; and between god and our soul is neither wrath nor forgiveness in his sight , for our soul is so fulsomely oned to god of his own goodness , that between god and our soul may be right naught . that in mankind that shall be saved is comprehended all ; that is to say , all that is made and the maker of all ; for in man is god , and god is all , and he that loveth thus he loveth all : that our soul is so deep grounded in god , and so endlesly treasured that we may not come to the knowing thereof , till we have first knowing of god ; which is the maker to whom it is oned , and therefore if we will have knowing of our soul , and commoning , and dalliance therewith , it behooveth to seek into our lord god in whom it is inclosed : and that worshipful city that our lord iesu sitteth in , it is our sensuality in which he is inclosed ; and our kindly substance is beclosed in iesu with the blessed soul of christ , resting in the godhead : and notwithstanding all this we may never come to the full knowing of god till we know first clearly our own soul ; for into the time that it is in the full mights , we may not be all holy ; and that is , that our sensuality by the vertue of christs passion be brought up into the substance , with all the profits of our tribulation , that our lord shall make us to get by mercy and grace . i had in party touching , and it is grounded in kind ; that is to say , our reason is grounded in god which is substantially kindness . afterwards she discourseth of three properties in the holy trinity , of the fatherhead , of the motherhood , and of the lordship , and she further saw that the second person which is our mother substantially , the same dear worthy person is now become our mother sensual ; for we be double of gods making , substantial and sensual . we may justly admire what esteem mr. cressy had of that lady to whose devout retirements he so gravely commends the blasphemous and senseless tittle tattle of this hysterical gossip . it were endless to repeat the canting and enthusiastick expressions , which signifie nothing in mother iuliana's revelations ; and one would wonder to what end such a book were published among us , unless it were to convince us of this great truth , that we have not had so great fanaticks and enthusiasts among us , but they have had greater in the roman church . and by this means they may think to prevail upon the fanaticks among us , by perswading them , that they have been strangely mistaken concerning the church of rome in these matters ; that she is no such enemy to enthusiams and revelations as some believe ; but that in truth she hath not only alwayes had such , but given great approbation and encouragement to them . so that among all their visions they do but mix some that confirm their particular doctrines ; as the visions of iuliana concerning the great worship of the b. virgin from her son , the holy vernacle at rome , and such like fopperies ; these make all the rest very acceptable among them . § . . . that which they account the most perfect way of life , hath been instituted by enthusiastick persons , and upon the credit of visions and revelations , and the highest way of devotion in that church is meer enthusiasme . . that the religious orders were instituted among them by enthusiastick persons upon the credit of their visions and revelations . the most celebrated orders at this day in the roman church are the benedictines , carthusians , dominicans , franciscans and iesuites , and if i can prove this concerning each of these , we shall see how much fanaticism hath contributed to the support of the roman church . and it is a very fair way towards the proof of it , that bellarmin confesseth concerning the four first and that of romoaldus , that they were at first instituted by st. benedict , st. romoaldus , st. bruno , st. dominick , st. francis , by the inspiration of the holy ghost ; and for ignatius loyola if he do not appear as great a fanatick as ever hath been in the world , we shall be contented to be upbraided with the charge of fanaticism among us . it is observable in the life of st. benedict , as st. gregory relates in the second book of his dialogues , that he was a great hater of humane learning , and that was the first occasion of his retiring from the world : being very much afraid a little knowledge should have destroyed him . he therefore forsook not only his studies , but his fathers house and business , being as st. gregory saith , knowingly ignorant , and wisely unlearned : he might as well have said ignorantly learned , and foolishly wise . one might have suspected it had been rather hatred of his book , than devotion at his age , which made him run away from school and his fathers house ; but one of his visions in his cave makes it more probable there was some other occasion of it . but however away he goes , and only an old nurse with him , and he requited her soon for it , for he by his prayers set together the winnowing sieve which she had broken in pieces , which was after hanged up before the doors of the church to the lombards times . but this is nothing to his being three years in a cave without the knowledge of any but st. roman , who let him down victuals by a rope and a bell ; and the devil owing him a great spight , threw a huge stone and broke the bell. here he lay so close , that he was fain to be discovered by a vision , and was so devout that he had forgotten easter day , till he was put in mind of it by the person , who by a vision was sent to him : and was so little like a man that the shepherds took him for a beast lying in a den . but at last he is brought to light , and found to be a wonderful person ; ( for among superstitious people , ignorance and devotion are most admired together ) and now many are sent to him for education ; having conquered his amorous passions by rowling himself naked among thornes and nettles : which thorns a long time after st. francis grafted roses upon , ( as bollandus well observes ) which bear in the coldest part of winter , and of them rose water is made which is sent as a present to the greatest princes . he had an admirable sagacity in spying devils ; for he saw a little black devil which led away a monk from prayers ; and was fain to pray two dayes with pompeianus and maurus that god would afford them the grace to see him too : and at last maurus being young , and his sight good , saw him ; but pompeianus being older and wiser could not . however st. bennet sent the little devil packing with a stroke of his rod , as he did at other times with the sign of the cross : and easily caused a stone to be lifted up whereon the devil sate , which could not be stirred before his coming . it would take up too much time to tell of his miracles , my business is only with his visions and revelations , by which he could not only foretell things to come , but could discover absent things ; so that the monks could not eat out of his sight , but he could tell as well as if he saw the meat in their teeth when they denyed it . he discovered riggo's fraud when he came to him in totila's habit , and told totilas how long he should raign ; nay , if we believe st. gregory , he knew the secrets of the divinity , being one spirit with god : no wonder then the unhappy boy could not hide one flask of wine , nor the monks receive handkerchiefs of the women , but he found it out , but most admirable was his sight of his sister scholastica's soul entring into heaven in the shape of a dove : and another time the soul of germanus bishop of capua in a fiery circle carryed by angels to heaven ; but above all was his seeing all the world under one ray of the sun , which he could not do , gregory concludes without a divine internal light ; upon which a dispute hath been raised in the schooles , whether st. benedict saw the divine essence or no ? aquinas thinks not , but only that he had an extraordinary revelation ; vasquez doth not seem much to oppose it , but upon two grounds , the one very considerable , that we never read the virgin mary did it , who ought to have the highest share in revelations and visions : the other only a plain place of scripture ; no man hath seen god at any time ; the only begotten son of the father he hath revealed him . as though that were intended to exclude st. benedict and other founders of religious orders and not rather the patriarchs , prophets and apostles who came not near them in visions and miracles . but no one hath handled this profound question with that care and accuracy which angelus de nuce hath done , in his notes upon st. gregories life of st. benedict : he tells us therefore the question is not concerning the highest sort of abstractive contemplation of any thing short of the divine essence , for that , he saith , none doubt of ; but of an intuitive vision , by which the divine essence is seen clearly in it self immediately , and not in any created image : the negative he grants is held by aquinas and many of the schoolmen : but yet he saith , many schoolmen of great note are for the affirmative , and he deduces many arguments to prove it from st. gregories words : but that which addes most weight to it , besides the number of authors quoted by him , is that vrban . in a bull upon the feast of st. benedict , a. d. . doth expresly assert it . and ioh. bona a present cardinal at rome , saith , that st. benedict was rapt up into the third heavens , where he heard the choire of angels , and saw god face to face : for which besides gregory , he cites st. bernard , rupertus tuitiensis , bonaventure , dionysius carthusianus , maximilian sandaeus , and others . and addes to this as extraordinary a thing as any hath been yet said of him , that he and his sister scholastica sung very distinctly in their mothers wombs , a presage ( saith he ) of the chearful singing of their order . for which he quotes several authors of the benedictines , and although he grants it may be suspected , because it doth not occurr in the more ancient writers , yet he justifies it by many parellel stories . these things are enough for st. benedicts enthusiasme . st. romoaldus was as happy as st. benedict in his ignorance . for as petrus damiani reports in his life , when he first entred himself under the discipline of marinus the eremite , he could hardly read his psalter , though he had been a monk three years before ; and he adds it as a great instance of his patience , that when marinus in teaching him , did often beat him with a wand upon the left side of his head , for his dulness , he desired his master that he would now change his side , for he had by his strokes quite lost his hearing in his left eare : and yet he met with a worse companion than marinus ; for , for five years together he saith , the devil lay upon his feet and his leggs in the night , that he could not easily stirr himself . he was so possessed with the thoughts of him , that a monk could not knock at his cell door , but he asked the devil , what he did there in the wilderness ? and was ready to encounter with the devil , when he found him to be one of his brethren . but the devil once got him down ( as he imagined ) while he was saying his psalms , and wounded him , and bruised him sadly ; but of a sudden he rose up as sound as ever , and went on just where he left . all the crows and ugly birds he saw in the wilderness , he fancied to be devils , and challenged to fight with them ; and exceedingly triumphed when at his loud cries they flew away . he was converted by a vision of st. apollinaris , as his father sergius ran stark mad with a vision of the holy ghost , he wept so abundantly that he never durst say mass in publick , and bid his brethren have a care of shedding too many tears , because they hurt the sight and the brain . yet by immediate revelation he writ an excellent commentary saith mugnotius on the book of psalms , though not very agreeable to grammar saith petrus damiani ; and being led by the divine spirit to the top of a mountain , in his sleep he saw ladders reaching from thence to heaven , and a great many monks going up to heaven upon them . a divine vision indeed ! and he meeting with maldulus who by great fortune had the same vision , they presently agreed about erecting a monastery there . if the order of carthusians did not begin upon the story of the doctor of paris speaking those dreadful words after his death , which is delivered , say the defenders of it , by sixty authors of the roman church ; yet it is agreed on all hands among them , that hugo who joyned with bruno in laying the foundations of that order , had a vision of gods building a house of seven stars conducting them , to the place called la grand chartreuse , from whence the whole order hath taken its name . the carmelites have an especial vision of simon stock , wherein the b. virgin upon his devout prayers to her appeared with the habit in her hand , which she would have them wear , with a promise greater than ever her son made , that whosoever dyed in that habit , should not perish by everlasting flames . § . . but s. francis and s. dominick were the persons whom innocent the third saw in a vision supporting the tottering fabrick of the lateran church ; whereby he understood what props and supporters those two orders would be to the church of rome . from hence those high elogiums are given of those two persons by bonaventure , antoninus , bozius and others , that they were the two great lights of heaven , the two trumpets of moses , the two cheru●ims , ( or rather the two calves of dan and ●ethel , ) the two breasts of the spouse , the two olive branches , the two candlesticks , the two witnesses ; almost all the noted two's of the bible , but the two thieves , and the two testaments ; and these , as will appear presently , were in no great esteem among them . but s. francis got the start of the other ; for ( if a canonized saint may be believed upon his oath ) bonaventure did publickly swear at paris , saith bernardinus a bustis , that christ did reveal it to him , that s. john ( apocalyps . . . ) by the angel ascending from the east having the seal of the living god , meant no other than s. francis . and therefore that is the motto placed under his picture ; and is applyed the same way by pope leo the tenth . i shall not take the advantage that is sufficiently given us by the book of conformities , the alcoran of the franciscans , nor the declared enemies of those orders , to represent s. francis by but only take the account given of him by persons of greatest reputation in the roman-church . cardinal vitriaco , who saith , he saw him when he went to damiata , calls him a simple and illiterate man. cardinal bonaventure is received as the most approved writer of his life ; and he describes him as an ignorant enthusiast ; being bred a kind of woollen draper , as appears by the selling his cloth and his horse at foligno , after he left off trading upon the vision of building churches . his first conversion to quakerism was by dreams and visions , in which he was sometimes swallowed up in god , as bonaventures expression is , and his soul melted at the sight of christ ; and was so tender hearted to the poor , that he sometimes put off his clothes to give them , sometimes unript them , sometimes cut them in pieces , i suppose that he might give to the more . all this while he had no teacher but christ , and learnt all by inspiration , but went besides himself at hearing the voice come from a crucifix ( as any one almost would have done ) and it seems he was not well recovered when he came from the cave , for the people flocked about him as a mad man , and gave him the common civility to such persons of dirt and stones : and his father entertained him with dark rooms and chains , as the fittest for him , whom neither words nor blows could bring to himself . but finding no amendment , he made him renounce his patrimony , and so discharged him , which s. francis did so readily that he would not so much as keep the clothes on his back . whereby ; saith bonaventure , in a wonderful zeal , and being drunk in the spirit , casting away his very breeches , and being stark naked before them all , said thus to his father , hitherto i called thee father on earth ; but hence forward i can securely say , our father which art in heaven . as though his duty to god and his parents had been inconsistent . the bishop , in whose presence all this was done , gave order to have his nakedness covered , highly admiring his zeal ; and he no sooner had got some rags about him , but he falls to makeing crucifixes in mortar with his own hands , as children do babies in the dirt . in this height of fanaticism he goes about , and preaches to the people , whose words pierced their hearts , much sooner than sense and reason would have done ; and he soon brought the superstitious and ignorant multitude to a great admiration of him , for his very way of saluting the people , he pretended , he had by revelation . at last one bernard joyns with him , but s. francis tells him , they must seek god for direction what to do ; and after prayers , he being a great worshipper of the trinity , in honour to it opens the gospel three times , and the first three sentences he met with , were to be the rule of their order : their second brother was f. gyles , who though an idiot and a simple man , was full of god , as he saith , and had so many extasies and raptures that he seemed to live rather among angels than men . one day when s. francis was alone in a solitary place , he fell into an extasie of joy , and had full assurance of the remission of his sins ; and being transported beyond himself , he was catched up into a wonderful light , wherein his mind being inlarged , he foresaw all that should come to pass concerning his order . his number being increased , to rome he goes to confirm his order ; but the pope rejected him with scorn ; but in the night he saw a palm growing between his feet into a goodly tree ; which he wisely interpreting to be s. francis , sent for him , and promised him fair things , and upon the other vision of his supporting the lateran church , he approves his rule , and establishes his order . and his whole life afterwards was agreeable to this beginning 〈◊〉 and the rule of his order he called , as possevine tells us , the book of life , the hope of salvation , the marrow of the gospel , the ladder of heaven , the key of paradise , the eternal covenant . let any fanaticks be produced among us , ( though we are far from looking on them as the supporters of our church ) who have exceeded s. francis in their actions or expressions . s. brigitt saith of the rule of s. francis , that it was not dictated , or composed by the wisdom of man , but by god himself ; nay , every word therein was inspired by the holy ghost , which , she saith likewise , of all the other rules of religious orders . what horrible blasphemy is this , which is so solemnly approved in the church of rome for divine revelations ? but lest dominicus should seem to come behind s. francis in ●●sions , he tells him at rome where they met , that it was revealed to him in a vision , that christ was just coming to destroy the world for the wickedness of it , and his mother stopt him , and told him she had two servants would reform it , whereof himself was one , and christ approved of him , as one that would do his work , but his companion he did not know , till he met s. francis , and so they embraced one another . which vision out of his great humility s. francis reported , having it from the others own mouth . i shall not insist on any more of dominicus , nor on the blasphemous images set up in s. marks church at venice , one of which was of s. paul with this inscription , by him we go to christ ; the other of dominicus with this , but by him we go easier to christ ; but i shall proceed to their followers , among whom we meet with one of the most blasphemous pieces of enthusiasm the world hath ever known . § . . for which we are to understand that in the beginning of the thirteenth century one almaricus a student in paris was suspected for some dangerous opinions , for which he was sentenced to recant ; and soon after dyed . among these . opinions he broached this blasphemy , which was privately instilled into his followers ; that every person of the trinity had his successive time of ruling the world ; that the law of the father continued till christs comeing ; the law of the son to their time , and then the time of the holy ghost was to begin . in which the use of sacraments was to cease , and all internal administrations , and every one then was to be saved by the inspiration and inward grace of the holy ghost , without any external actions . they so highly extolled love , that what would have been a sin without it , they thought to be nothing with it ; as fornication , adultery , &c. and promised impunity to the women with whom they committed these things , because they said god was only good , and not just . that these were their opinions , is delivered by rigordus who lived in that age , and was upon the place , being a monk of s. denys and physitian to the king of france , and by eymericus and pegna , and many others . but by the care and endeavour of the bishop and vniversity of paris , though they had spread very far abroad , and with a great deal of secrecy , yet by the fraud and artifice of one imployed among them , who pretended to revelations and the spirit as highly as they could do , they were convicted , condemned , and some of them executed . notwithstanding which severity about fifty years after this came forth a book with the title of evangelium aeternum , or the eternal gospel published by the mendicant fryers , and supposed to be written by iohannes de parma about a. d. . who was general of the franciscan order ; but the book was received and defended by both orders , as will presently appear . but it will be first necessary to consider what the doctrines are , which are contained in this book ; and if ever there were higher fanaticism than is therein , or rather greater blasphemies , let them have leave to triumph . the most perfect account we have of it , is from nicol . eymericus , who was himself an inquisitor , and tells us these heresies or errors are contained in it . . that the doctrine of abbot ioachim ( a great fanatick ) excelled the doctrine of christ , and consequently the new and old testament . . that the gospel of christ is not the gospel of the kingdom , and therefore is not edifying . . that the new testament is to be evacuated , or lose its force , as the old hath already . . that the new testament shall not remain in force above six years longer ; viz. to a. d. . . that they which shall live beyond that time , shall be in the state of perfection . . that the gospel of christ shall give way to another gospel , and so instead of the priesthood of christ , another gospel shall succeed . . that no simple man is fit to instruct men in spiritual and eternal things , but they that walk barefoot . . that although god afflict the iews in this world , yet he will save them , though they remain in iudaism , and will in the end deliver them from all the opposition of men , remaining such as they are . . that the church hath not yet brought forth children , nor will do before the end of the temporal reign : which shall be after six years ; and by this we are to understand , that the christian religion , which hath brought forth many called to the faith of christ , is not the church . . that the gospel of christ brings no man to perfection . . that the gospel of the holy ghost coming , or ioachims work obtaining ( called the everlasting gospel or of the holy ghost ) the gospel of christ shall be done away . . that no man in religious orders is bound to expose his life for defence of the faith , or preserving the worship of christ , but other men are . . that as when iohn baptist came , the things that were before must needs be confuted , because of new things coming in their place ; so when the time of the holy ghost shall come , or the third state of the world , the things that were before must be confuted , for the sake of the new which are to come ; from whence it must be understood , that the new testament must be refuted , and the old cast away . . that christ and his apostles were not perfect in the contemplative life . . that the order of the clergy shall perish ; but one of a religious order shall be perferred above all in dignity and honour ; and that as the authority under the father was committed to one of the married order , so under the holy ghost to one or some of the order of monks . . that those who are over the colledges of monks , ought in those dayes to think of departing from the seculars , and prepare themselves to return to the ancient people of the iews . . that the preachers which shall be in the last state of the world , shall be of greater dignity and authority , than the preachers of the primitive church . . that the preachers and doctors of religious orders , when they shall be infested by the clergy , shall go over to the infidels ; and it is to be feared , lest they go thither for that end to bring them in battel against the roman church , according to the doctrine of s. iohn , apocalyps . . these may suffice out of twenty seven , to let the world know , where the height of blasphemy and fanaticism was first hatched ; and no one could imagine , that any who had the face or name of christians should own these things ; yet they came from those excellent and inspired persons of the newly founded religious orders . and if it had not been for the mortal hatred that then was between the university of paris , and the mendicant fryers ( who usurped the professors places in the vniversity against their will ) god knows how far this doctrine might have prevailed without the least censure . for the popes were extreamly partial to the fryers , and would hear no ill of them ; they now finding them their most useful instruments in all their quarrels with princes , the secular clergy and the people . so matth. paris relating the story of the quarrels between the university and the fryers , tells , that though the king and the city were for preserving the priviledges of the vniversity ; yet the fryers being at the popes devotion , and doing them a great deal of service , were more acceptable in the court of rome , and therefore got the better of the vniversity . nay , so zealous was alexander the fourth in the cause of the fryers against the vniversity , that in the six years of his popedom , he sent out near forty bulls against the vniversity , of which not one now appears in the bullarium : but most of them are preserved in that accurate preface before the works of gul. de sancto amore the zealous defender of the vniversity against the encroachments of the fryers , and in the late history of the vniversity of paris . in the midst of these heats , some intimation was given the divines of the vniversity of such a book , which was in great esteem among the fryers , called evangelium aeternum , wherein were very dangerous doctrines , which were ( saith matthew paris ) preached , read and taught by the fryers : and were put together by them in a book called evangelium aeternum , and taken , ( saith he ) chiefly out of the books of abbot joachim ; and richerius acknowledgeth , that the book was composed by the fryers , and that the divines of paris by some art got a copy of it , and extracted some heads out of it , which were contrary to faith : and upon that ( as du bouley saith ) they caused it to be burnt publickly at paris . but not being satisfied herewith ; they preached against it , as appears by a sermon of gul. de sancto amore , at the end of his works , wherein he saith , that he had seen no small part of that book ; and he had heard that it doth in all contain more than the bible ; and therein , he saith , it is taught , that the sacraments of the church are nothing , that the gospel of christ is not the true gospel ; and that the book it self is the gospel of the holy ghost , and the everlasting gospel ; and that the gospel of christ should be preached but for five years to come ; that then men shall have another rule of life , and the church shall be otherwise managed . which , saith he , is execrable and abominable to be spoken . but not content with bare preaching against them , he writ a very smart book in the name of the vniversity of paris , de periculo novissimorum temporum , of the dangers of the last times , wherein he doth at large set forth the hypocrisie , idleness , flattery and baseness of the fryers ; but coming to shew the near approach of the dangers he mentions , he saith , it is now fifty five years ( for about that time almaric broached his doctrine ) that some have endeavoured to change the gospel of christ into another gospel , which they said would be better , more perfect and worthy , which they call the gospel of the holy ghost , or the everlasting gospel ; which will by its coming turn the gospel of christ out of doors ; as , saith he , we are ready to prove , out of that cursed gospel ; and a little after he adds , that this everlasting gospel was publickly explained at paris , a. d. . from whence it is certain , that it would be preached , unless there were some other thing which hindered . and afterwards he saith , that in that book , this everlasting gospel is said to exceed the gospel of christ , as much as the light of the sun doth that of the moon , or the kernel doth the shell . this book of his extreamly incensed the fryers , and they presently sent informations against him to the pope ; and by their interest got his book to be condemned and burnt publickly before the pope and the court at anagnia , and afterwards at paris : to which purpose the pope published a bull , and denounced the sentence of excommunication against any who should presume to defend it : and the write of it was deprived of his ecclesiastical promotions and banished france , as far as the popes power could do it . all this was done in great haste , before the legats from the vniversity could appear ; and when they came , three of them recanted and returned ; only gul. de s. amore resolved to stand it out , and answered all their objections , and persisted still in the accusation of that horrible book : and at last prevailed so much , that the pope was fain to condemn the evangelium aeternum together with s. amours book ; but it appears how unwillingly he did it , by his carriage in it , which is related by matth. paris ; for he condemned the other book solemnly , and caused the sentence to be publickly executed ; but he gave order that this book should be secretly burnt , and as much as might be without any offence to the fryers . lo here the true zeal of the head of the church ! a book only writ against the mendicant fryers is condemned as impious , wicked , execrable , and what not , in the bull against it ; and a book against christian religion in the highest manner hardly procured to be condemned ; and when it is , with great fear of displeasing the authors and approvers of it . and since that time , they have been very careful to suppress the least mention of the latter , but very forward to set forth the other . for in the roman bullarium , the bull against s. amours book is set forth at large ; but not the least intimation of any such book condemned as the evangelium aeternum . so much dearer to the pope is the honour of fryers , than of christ and the christian religion ! and therefore s. amour said well in the university of paris before they went , that it was to no purpose to go about to procure the condemning that book at rome , where it had so many favourers ; the design of it being to advance the honour of religious orders , though to the overthrow of the gospel of christ. it is well these things were written and preserved by writers of their own church , and persons of the same age ( out of whom only i have given account of them ) for otherwise according to their usual method of confuting things which do not please them , they would be denyed with a mighty confidence , and the world should be told , that these are only the lyes and forgeries of hereticks . but these are to their shame preserved in their own books , and we can shew them the very words , if occasion requires it . § . . yet we are not to think , that only the preaching fryers sell into these extravagancies ; for the franciscans had a great hand in them too , and were as forward to promote that which they accounted their common interest . and notwithstanding the popes condemning the book , said to be taken out of abbot ioachims writings , yet his doctrine did in no long time after break forth again in the franciscan order . for toward the latter end of the same century , or as most think , in the beginning of the next in the time of clement the fifth appeared one petrus iohannis de oliva a great disciple of ioachims , as guido carmelita , alphonsus a castro , and franciscus pegna affirm . all the difference saith alphonsus , between them was , that ioachim made the spiritual state to commence from the founding the benedictine order , but petrus iohannis would have it begin only from s. francis : which state , as eymericus relates , where he recounts his errors , began with the franciscan order , when the angel of christ , that is , s. francis , did set his mark upon all his souldiers ; and that s. francis appeared as christ did with his wounds upon him . for we are to understand , that s. francis in one of his visions upon the very day of the exaltation of the cross , had the same bleeding wounds on his hands , feet and side , which christ had upon the cross , and carried them for two years together before his death ; and lest this should be suspected , pope alexander the fourth preached it in s. bonaventures hearing , that himself saw them , as the sixth lesson on s. francis day in the roman breviary , and bonaventure assure us . and who dares question the infallibility of the popes eye-sight ? unless the story in latter times of maria visitationis , as she was called , abbesse of the annuntiation in lisbon , may give some suspicion of it . for this virgin had gained so great a reputation for sanctity , not only in portugal , but in spain , italy and the east indies , that she seemed to be a fit match for s. francis. and she out-did him in the number of her wounds , for she had thirty two upon her head , caused by christs putting his crown of thorns upon her , and in her hands , and ●eet , and side , they were as exact as in st. francis , she made no difficulty of shewing them , if her confessor bid her , but never otherwise ; lest she should seem too much to glory in the honour which christ had done her . this confessor was no less a man , than ludovicus granatensis , a man highly commended for learning and piety , who as verily believed them , as pope alexander did those of s. francis. one day in the week she laid raggs to her wounds , upon which the print of the wounds was made . these rags with incredible devotion , saith the writer of the story , were sent to the pope himself , and to the greatest and most religious persons in all parts , by whom they were received with great veneration . and when he was inquisitor in sicily , he saith , he saw many of them with her picture , and a book of her life and eminent sanctity by a person of great authority , which were preserved as precious things by the vice-roy's lady . but this is nothing to gregory the thirteenth then pope , who writ a letter of encouragement to her , to go on in the same way of sanctity she had begun . she had been examined by the inquisition , and her wounds were allowed by them after diligent search : but at last they found what she aimed at , which was the revolt of portugall from spain ; which being once suspected , she is brought before the inquisition , and her sanctity is condemned , her wounds declared to be a meer imposture , being artificially made by red lead , and her self sentenced by the inquisitors to a very severe pennance all her dayes decemb. . a. d. . i suppose , my adversary having been upon the place , hath often heard the truth of this ; but if he doubts it , he may find it , as i have related it , in ludovicus a paramo . by which it is very easie to ghess what it is , which gives and preserves the reputation of these things in the roman church ; for if this saint had dyed before her design brake forth , we might have heard of her wounds in the roman breviary , as well as those of st. francis , and a festival might have been kept in commemoration of her sanctity , and her self as religiously invocated as the rest of the popes making . but supposing pope alexander the fourths authority prevailed so much upon the people , to believe that s. francis had the same wounds which christ had , &c. no wonder then , it should be written in the book called , the flowers of s francis , that those only were saved by the blood of christ , who lived before s. francis ; but all that followed , were redeemed by the blood of s. francis. no wonder , this petrus iohannis made the rule of s. francis , to be the very same with the gospel , and that which christ and his apostles lived by : of which s. francis was the greatest observer next to christ and his mother ; and that as christ when he was to reform the world chose twelve apostles ; so s. francis had twelve brethren , by whom the evangelical order was founded ; that those who opposed this order , were the carnal persecuting clergy , in whom the seat of the beast is much more , than in the people ; that in the time of this mystical antichrist , the carnal church shall oppose the doctrine , life and zeal of the saints , and burn as it were with fire against them ; but it shall be dryed up from all spiritual wisdom , and grace , and the riches of christ , and be exposed to errors and delusion as it was with the iews and greeks . those who will not take the pains to see how faithfully i have translated these words out of eymericus , would imagine i have borrowed some of the canting language of the modern quakers . but he goes on : saying , that as vasthi the queen being cast off from the kingdom and marriage of ahassuerus , the humble esther was chosen to succeed in her place , and the king made a great feast to his princes and servants : so in this last state of the church , the adulterous babylon , the carnal church being rejected , the spiritual church must be exalted , and a great and spiritual feast be kept to celebrate these nuptials with , that under the mystical antichrist , there shall be overturnings and commotions , by which the carnal church shall be terribly stirred up and moved against the evangelical spirit of christ ; but that , the whore of babylon , the carnal church shall fall ; in which time the saints shall preach , saying , from this time it is no longer the church of christ , but the synagogue of satan , and the habitation of devils , which before said in the pride of her heart , i sit as a queen in great honour and glory , i rule over my kingdom , i sit at ease , i am no widow , i. e. i have bishops and kings on my side : that , the roman church is that great whore spoken of in the revelations , which hath committed fornication with this world , having departed from the worship , and sincere love , and the delights of christ her spouse ; and embraced the world , the riches and pleasures of it , and the devil , and kings , and princes , and prelates , and all the lovers of this world . that , the teachers of this spiritual state , are more properly the gates to lead men into the wisdom of christ , than the apostles themselves . these things are expresly delivered concerning the doctrine of this franciscan fryer by the inquisitor eymericus ; i know , wadding in his franciscan annals to preserve the reputation of his order , would clear him from all suspicion of heresie , but i suppose the credit of an inquisitor having such opportunities to know the truth , so near his own time , and having the examination of many of his followers , is to be relyed on rather than the testimony of one at such a distance , and partial for the honour of his order . especially that being considered which possevin saith of eymericus , that most of his accounts of the times a little before his own were the very same with what was contained in a manuscript in the vatican library both as to order and words ; which is though to have been brought from avignon to rome , where he was made inquisitour general by gregory . a. d. . but it is not denyed by wadding or others , that the beguini and fratricelli , the beguardi and others were his followers ; and we shall find so great an agreement in their opinions , that it would be strange they should be accounted the disciples of any other . eymericus gives this account of them , that in the time of clement . there arose in the province of narbonne , one petrus iohannis a franciscan fryer , who published by writing and preaching a great many errours and heresies in the same province , and drew many after him , who had spread themselves over france , italy , germany , and other places , and continued in his time , being daily searched for , condemned by the inquisitours . they all agreed that their doctrine was from god by immediate inspiration ; and that all the writings of petrus johannis were revealed to him from the lord and that he had declared this to some of his friends ; that he was so great a doctor that from the time of the apostles and evangelists , there have been none greater than he in learning and holiness : and that his writings , theirs only excepted ( wherein they fell short of the former sect ) were the most useful to the church . § . . their doctrines may be reduced to these four heads , . evangelical poverty . . unlawfulness of swearing . . the doctrine of perfection . . opposition to the carnal church . which being joyned with that greater degree of light which they supposed themselves to have above all the rest of the world , makes up a sect of quakers after the order of st. francis. . their doctrine of evangelical poverty ; about which they said , that our lord iesus christ as man , and his apostles had nothing in proper , or in common , because they were perfectly poor in this world ; and that this is perfect evangelical poverty ; but the enjoying any thing though in common takes off from the perfection of it ; and that the apostles themselves could not without sin have any property in any thing , and that it is heresie to say otherwise ; therefore the rule of st. francis prescribing this poverty was that which christ observed and prescribed to his apostles , and was the same with the gospel of christ , and therefore whosoever addes to it , or takes from it ( be it the pope himself ) he is a heretick in so doing : on which account they condemned iohn . and all the prelates and fryers for heresie , who opposed this doctrine . for we are not to imagine a doctrine so contrary to the beloved interests of the roman church , should escape opposition : nay it was so far from it , that it immediately caused a breach in their own order . for as papirius massonus well observes from petrarch , none hate poverty more than they who profess it most ; and the franciscan order had gotten into their hands goodly possessions , and built magnificent houses , and laid up great provisions of corn and wine ; which these followers of petrus iohannis declare against as directly contrary to the rule which they professed , being the strictest poverty ; which this was as like as hypocrisie is to sincerity , or st. francis to christ. upon this a great division happens in the order : between the brethren that followed petrus iohannis de oliva , who were called the spiritual men , and the brethren of the community ; both parties appeal to clement . alexander de alexandriâ , general of the order appears in behalf of the community , and vbertinus de casali on the other side : but the spiritual brethren , fearing hard usage at rome and from their other superiours choose new ones to themselves and so make an open schisme . in the council of vienna , a. d. . a decree was made to declare the rule of st. francis , which is extant in the canon law under the title of clementines but this by no means effected a cure ; for the people favouring the dissenters in the province of narbon , they turned out all the brethren of the community ; and took upon themselves new habits to be distinguished from the rest . during this heat gonsalvus general of the order , favouring the stricter fryers dyed at paris , not without suspicion of poison from the looser brethren . iohn . being pope resolves to take a severer course with the dissenters , and a. d. . imployes the inquisitours for that end ; the fruit of which was , that they brake out into a more open schisme and chose one henricus de ceva , or de sena for their general ; and kept their conventicles as iohn . in his constitution , sancta romana , declares , and every day added to their sect. and the more constitutions he published , the greater opposition was made , in so much that michael de caesena , gul. ockam and others found out heresies at last in them , and plain contradictions to those of his predecessours , especially that of nicolaus . which bellarmin confesseth cannot in all things be reconciled . no fewer than eighteen errours francisc. pegna confesseth he was charged with in one constitution , to which he answered in another decretal not published , in which they found errours , but william ockam went farther , and charged him with no fewer than . a goodly number for an infallible head of the church ! in which there ought to be some allowance for humane frailty , as benedict . his successour pleaded in behalf of nicolaus . when he answered the objections of the fraticelli against iohn , as may be seen in eymericus . and his answers are thought so insufficient by pegna , that he saith there are some doubtful and some false which ought not to be passed over without animadversion , and therefore solemnly invocates god , that he may be able to answer them better : and yet this benedict was accounted a notable divine , for a pope ; which made the dissenters , saith pegna , hate him the more . the substance of his answer which pegna is so much displeased with is , that though nicolaus . had determined contrary to john . yet the former definition being contrary to scripture ought not to stand . thus when popes fall out , the scripture comes by its own ; which is , to be the standing rule of all controversies . . they thought it unlawful upon any occasion to swear ; this iohn . in his decretal , gloriosam ecclesiam , charges them with , and that those were guilty of mortal sin , and lyable to punishment , who were under the obligation of any oath whatsoever : the same is reported by wadding and others concerning them . . the doctrine of perfection was stiffly maintained by them . this spondanus would have to be one of the opinions of the beguardi , whom he distinguishes from the beguini ; but not only eymericus and pegna make them to be the same , but iohn . in the extravagant sancta romana condemns both together , as the title is in eymericus ; and in the body of it , it appears that they went under divers names in several places , being sometimes called fraticelli , sometimes fratres de poenitentia , sometimes fratres de paupere vitâ , sometimes bizochi , sometimes beghini and sometimes beguardi , which latter seems to be the name that they were known in germany most by . eymericus speaking of petrus olerii and bononatus two of the begardi in spain , that were burnt for their heresie by the inquisitour and bishop of barcelona , saith , that they held the opinion mentioned before concerning evangelical poverty , which spondanus thinks peculiar to the beguini . about perfection their opinions were these as alvarus pelagius , ioh. turrecremata , bzovius , spondanus , and raynaldus all agree that a man in this life may attain to so great perfection as to live without sin , that a man who hath attained to such a degree he is above ordinances , i. e. he need not fast and pray as others do ; that , such as are perfect , have the spirit of liberty and are not subject to any humane ordinances either of church or state. that , every intellectual being hath enough within it self to make it happy , or a light within ; so that it doth not need any external light of glory in order thereto . that , to live in the exercise of moral vertues is an argument of a state of imperfection ; and that , one truly perfect is above them . from hence they accounted all actions which were designed to satisfie natural inclinations to be indifferent and so looked on unclean mixtures as no sins . alvarus saith , he saw one of them who was a german , and seemed a very spiritual man , in a very mean habit and looking sowrely with tears in his eyes , and full of raptures , and thought himself a contemplator and a taster ; names not yet taken up by any fanaticks among us . and to let others understand how easily men were imposed upon by visions and raptures among them ; he saith , that he knew a woman who was afterwards known to be naught , that had raptures at her pleasure , whom he had honoured as a saint himself , and the very ground she stood on ; and not only he , but many others , even prelats and cardinals too : by which he saw evidently how easily the devil , could transform himself into an angel of light ; and after saith of the beguinae , that under the shew of sanctity they committed many vile things . a strange instance of the impostures of one of the beguinae , who gained a great reputation for sanctity by her constancy and devotion at prayers , her pretending to raptures and extasies wherein her soul was carried to heaven , her long fastings whereby she imposed upon the bishop , the fryers , and all the people to so great a degree that the bishop was about building a church on purpose to lay her in , that all comers might behold her who led such an angelical life , and how accidentally the imposture was discovered , to the great dissatisfaction of them all , but especially the bishop , is at large related by richerius . . but notwithstanding all this , they had a mighty zeal against the carnal church ; and called all those blind who were not of their way , as eymericus saith of them ; in these ma●ters they followed petrus iohannis of whose opinions about the church we have already spoken ; any that suffered among them were cryed up as martyrs ; and four of the brethren suffering at marseilles a. d. . they said they were so far from suffering as hereticks , that they were as good martyrs as st. laurence , or vincentius ; that christ was spiritually crucified in them ; that all who approved or consented to their death , pope , prelats or others were all hereticks for it , and lost all right of governing the church or administring sacraments , and are out of the church and therefore not in a state of salvation , and they only are the true church . these are the chief of their doctrines , although eymericus reckons up no fewer than fifty five errours and heresies among them . and notwithstanding all the care used by popes and inquisitours against them in the time of clement . iohn . benedict . clement . innocent . and afterwards , they not only continued but spread themselves still further . iohn gerson who lived in the beginning of the next century , mentions not only the doctrines of the everlasting gospel , but those of the begardi , the substance of which he saith is , that a perfect soul being reduced to god , loseth its own will , so that it hath no other will but the divine will , which it had from eternity in that ideal being which it had in god : which being supposed , they say they may do any thing which their affection puts them upon without sin , because they have no will of their own . the way of renouncing their own wills was somewhat different , he tells us ; for the more cunning pretended to do it only to god ; but these prevailed upon the other to renounce their own wills before them ; which when they had done , they told them they could now sin no longer : and so did what they pleased together . under which pretext of renouncing their own wills , all manner of wickedness was committed among them . neither were they only in france , italy , sicily and germany ; but they prevailed much in spain too ; for in the time of benedict in catalonia there were many beguardi saith eymericus , the chief of whom was fryer bonanatus who was burnt for his heresie ; in the time of clement . there arose many of them in the province of valencia whose leader was iacobus iusti , and was therefore immured and so dyed . in the time of innocent . vrban . gregory . appeared in catalonia , one arnoldus montanerius , who publickly preached for nineteen years together , the opinions of the begardi about poverty , and added these of his own , that no one can be damned who wears the habit of st. francis , that st. francis once a year goes down into purgatory , and thence draws the souls of all that have been of his order , and carries them to paradise . these we have from eymericus , who saith that by order of vrban . and greg. . he sate as inquisitour upon him . and lest we should think this sect inconsiderable among them , ludovicus de paramo the inquisitour of sicily declares that the fratricelli , carrying an appearance of sanctity with great poverty drew the hearts of all men to them , and drove john . into great straights , and by the schisme they raised gave a great disturbance to the whole church . neither was it of any short continuance , if we consider the fundamental principles of this sect , which were immediate revelations , renouncing property , and liberty of actions : for so it began with almerick at paris , and we have seen how much afterwards promoted by the mendicant fryers , and especially by those who called themselves of the third order of st. francis , and pretended to far greater strictness as to their rule than others : on which account celestine . a. d. . gave them first liberty to separate themselves from the community , which was afterwards pleaded by the fratricelli , against clement . and iohn . § . . but besides these who before were of this order , others took up the same way and opinions which were never originally of it ; as the followers of geraldus segarelli and dulcinus in italy , who are called fratricelli by platina , by others pseudo-apostolici and dulcinistae . spondanus confesseth those in italy , who were the followers of one hermannus of ferrara to be the same with the fraticelli and beguini ; whose body saith prateolus , after he had been twenty years worshipped for a saint , was by the command of boniface . taken up and burnt for an heretick : ludovicus de paramo saith that it was thirty years after , he had been publickly worshipped by the people of ferrara ; and he reckons up this as one of the great blessings which comes by the inquisition , that they are thereby undeceived in many whom they worship for saints , of which he gives several other instances . but the burning of hermannus bones , did not extinguish the sect of fraticelli there ; the only effect of this severity was , that they grew more numerous and bold , as patreolus and spondanus confess . they kept their conventicles more frequently , and spread the further , insomuch that great multitudes of people fell in with them . among whom as their chief leaders were several of the order of st. francis , as spondanus proves from the extravagant sancta romana of iohn . and of the same sect were the pseud-apostolici , whose chief leaders were geraldus segarelli and dulcinus one of his disciples , the one of parma , the other of novara , these filled all the countrey thereabout with their errours , saith eymericus ; and made an independent congregation among themselves , which acknowledged obedience and subjection , as he adds , to none but god himself , and said that they followed the apostolical rule in a very singular manner . this geraldus saith paramo and his followers by a shew of extraordinary sanctity , drew many to their party : but friar salimbenus ( in a manuscript seen by pegna in the library of cardinal savelli at rome ) being himself a franciscan , gives this account of him , whom he calls gherardinus segalellus , that being desirous to be admitted into their order , he was refused by them , after which he spent some time in the franciscans church , where observing the pictures of the apostles , and the habits they were drawn in ; he put himself as exactly as he could into the very same habit ; and having sold his house and received the money for it , he distributed it all among the people ; and afterwards got a companion who was a servant to the franciscans ; but by degrees their number increased , so that in a short time they spread over many cities in italy : and from thence were dispersed over almost all europe : they went up and down in the streets , saith eymericus , preaching repentance with a white mantel , a white coat , and long hair , barefoot and bareheaded , and what they eat was publickly in the streets , and only what was given to them : after forty years in which they mightily prevailed , boniface . caused gerald to be taken and burnt ; upon this dulcinus with six thousand of his companions retired into the alps , where they increased so much , saith pegna , that clement . was forced to send a croisado against them : where they starved a great part of them ; but dulcinus and his wife margareta , as patreolus calls her , were taken and burnt . it is not credible saith bzovius , how long they endured upon the alps all extremities of hunger and cold , rather than they would yield to their adversaries . but notwithstanding all the endeavours could be used , they could not wholly extinguish that sect , saith prateolus , but the remainders of it were still left in the mountains about trent , and continued to his time , which was about a. d. . these were of the same opinions with the fratricelli before mentioned as to the roman church , that by reason of the wickedness of the clergy and religious orders , it was a reprobate church ; and the whore of babylon ; but being no more content with this , than the greatest fanaticks of our age , they pretended to great things themselves , that they were the only spiritual congregation , sent , and chosen out by god to bear testimony to his truth , in the last ages ; and that they , and only they , had the power which st. peter had ; that geraldus segarelli , was a plant of gods own planting , growing up from the root of faith ; by whom god began the work of reformation of his church , to the purity , perfection , life , state and poverty of the primitive church , in that state wherein christ committed his church to st. peter . that they only are the church of god , and in that perfection wherein the apostles were , and therefore are bound to live in subjection to none , because their rule which was immediately from christ , is free , and hath the greatest perfection , that no one can be saved who is not of their order , that it is a sign any one is in a state of damnation to persecute them : that all the popes from sylvester downward , and all the prelats were impostours and deceivers , excepting only celestine . who renounced his popedome , and gave leave to the spiritual brotherhood to separate from the rest in the franciscan order . that the orders of clergy and religion are dangerous to the church . that no lay-men ought to pay any tithes to priest or prelat , who lives not in the same perfection and poverty which the apostles did . that it was as well to worship god in woods , or stables , or barnes , as in consecrated churches : that it was unlawful for christians to swear at all , saith prateolus , or never but in case of the articles of faith , or the divine commands , say , turrecremata and eymericus , but in all other cases it was lawful to use all aequivocations and mental reservations , and to deny their sect with their mouths , as long as they kept true to them in their hearts . that nothing was unlawful which was done out of a principle of love : and that all things , in the worst sense , were to be common among them ; and therefore they are charged with allowing and practising promiscuous mixtures among themselves , if their adversaries do not charge them as unjustly in this point as the prmitive christians were charged by the heathen . this is the summ of their principles and practices as they are reported by turrecremata , eymericus , prateolus , spondanus , raynaldus , and others . but that which is still observable to our purpose is , that these were looked on as a sort of fryers in the roman church ; for when honorius . condemned them by his bull extant in eymericus , he doth it upon this account , that they were a sort of mendicant fryers not approved by the roman see ; whereas greg. . in the council of lyons had absolutely forbid all orders of mendicants after the lateran council , that should not receive express confirmation from the pope ; but his holiness was informed , that some who called themselves of the apostolical order , had since that time assumed to themselves a new habit of religion without due applications being made to his see , and a great number of these went up and down , as mendicants into many parts of the world , doing unseemly things to their own peril and the scandal of others ; especially some among them being guilty of heresie : therefore all ecclesiastical officers , are required to admonish and compell them to lay down their habits , and to enter themselves among some of the approved religious orders ; and in case of refusal they ought to proceed judicially against them and to deliver them over to the secular power . by which we understand the true ground of the quarrel against them , viz. not yielding subjection enough to the roman see , and how easily all their blasphemies and villanies might be forgiven , if they entred themselves into any of the approved religious orders . § . . as we see all the care used could not root out this sect wholly , but the remainders of them continued in some of the mountains of italy , so i am very much mistaken if the alumbrado's in spain , or the sect of illuminati , were any other than a remainder of the beguini and fraticelli whom we observed before to have got footing there . spondanus indeed and some others from him , say , they were detected in the diocesses of sevil and cadiz , a. d. . and were condemned by andreas pachecus the general inquisitour in spain , in twenty six articles , and the seven chief of them were burnt : but withall he saith , they were not so much a new sect , as a renewal of an old one with some additions . nay we meet with the very same name of the sect long before that : for ludovicus de paramo saith , that several priests were taken by order of the inquisition in the town of lerena , who under pretence of extraordinary illumination from god , did gain upon the people , and spread dangerous opinions among them . and afterwards he particularly describes them under the names of the illuminati , by their pride and disobedience to their superiours , by their obstinate adhering to their illusions , and indulging themselves in their sensual lusts ; all which fully agree to the character already given of the fraticelli , and begardi . for the first , he saith they chose rather to be broken in pieces , than give obedience to their bishops ; for the second he proves , that as long as they gave way to sensual lusts , their illumination could not be from god ; for they who would sleep in the divine light , as he speaks , must have their eye-lids shut as to all worldly vanities and pleasures , therefore we ought to shun such illuminated , or rather blind persons , who transform themselves into angels of light , spreading divers doctrines and revelations which they have ; of whom he interprets the epistle of st. iude. by all that hath been said , this sect seems to be nothing else but gnosticism revived under new shapes and names ; and with a difference of opinions suitable to the age wherein it appeared . spondanus gives this account of the opinions and practices of the modern alumbrado's , that under a pretence of mental prayer and divine contemplation , and union with god ; they despised the use of sacraments , preaching the word of god , and all holy exercises ; and did extol the other so highly , that they said those things would not be sins in them , which were so in others , and by this means committed all impurities . of this sect ignatius loyola was vehemently suspected to be , and upon that account was cast into prison by the inquisition in spain . which maffeius himself doth not deny , that it was upon the account of the illuminati , and his enthusiastical preaching in the streets , that he was questioned . but melchior canus that learned bishop of the canaries puts the matter out of dispute , for in a discourse of his concerning the foundation of the society of iesus , preserved entire in the hands of dominicus canus bishop of cadiz his nephew , and published in part by schioppius , he saith , that the general of that order was one innico who fled out of spain , lest he should be laid hold on by the inquisition , being suspected for the heresie of the illuminati ; and coming to rome he desired to be judged by the pope , where no accuser appearing he was absolved . he gives him the character of a vain man ; for , being once in his company at rome , he presently without any occasion began to boast of his righteousness , and the unjust persecution he had suffered in spain : and spake many and great things of the revelations he had from god , without any necessity ; upon which account he saith , he believed not anything at all concerning them . another day , he adds , when he went to dine with him , he commended one of his brethren for a great saint , who coming into the room where they were , he presently suspected the man to be mad : and when he talked with him about matters of religion , he answered heretically , not out of design , but because he was an ideot , a rude , ignorant fellow . ignatius being confounded at this , said he was no heretick , but a fool ; but he believed he had some lucid intervals ; and at that time by reason of the conjunction of the moon , he was not a very sound catholick . see from what man , the iesuits derive the infallibility of their faith ! but although canus was a person of more learning and judgement than a thousand ignatius 's ; yet the iesuits decry him as very partial against them : for orlandinus in his history of the society complains of him as one of the bitterest enemies they had in the beginning of their society ; for he every where set them forth as the fore-runners of antichrist , and explained the prophecy of them , concerning the men that should be in the last times . wherein it is said , men shall be lovers of themselves , covetous , boasters , blasphemers , &c. traytours , heady , high-minded , lovers of pleasures , more than lovers of god , having a form of godliness , but denying the power thereof : for of this sort are they which creep into houses , and lead captive silly women laden with sins , led away with divers lusts , &c. the same thing ( saith orlandinus and truly ) was charged upon the orders of dominicans and franciscans as well as them : and we shall not quarrel with them which order of them all hath the greatest share in the accomplishment of this prophecy . § . . that which is our present business , is to shew that this order was instituted as the other were upon the credit of visions and revelations ; for ignatius was certainly as ignorant and enthusiastical as st. francis himself ; and to prove this , i shall only make use of those of his own order , who have writ his life , ( maffeius , orlandinus and ribadeneira ) and pursue it no farther than the institution of the order , as i have done with the other . the first remarkable thing in him was that he was converted by reading the legends of the saints , as don quixot began his errantry by reading the old romances : i wonder how ignatius did to read them , for maffeius describes him , as one that had hardly ever learnt his letters : but it is possible st. peter taught him , for they all write that st. peter appeared to him , before he was so far recovered as to be able to read . but his country-man was not more moved with the adventures of former knights ; than ignatius was with the stories of st. dominick and st. francis , for these maffeius tells us , did particularly work upon him ; in so much that before he took up a firm resolution of religious errantry , he would put cases to himself of the difficult adventures of those two illustrious heroes , and found himself to have mettle enough to undertake any of them : and therefore in a fit of zeal one night he gets out of his bed and fell down upon his knees before an image of the b. virgin , and in that posture vowed himself her knight . which is a circumstance so considerable , i admire that maffeius omits it ; as he doth likewise the strange noise in the house , the trembling of the room and the breaking of the glass windows that time : an argument saith orlandinus , that the devil then took his leave of him , although there be some reason to doubt it . after this the v. mary appeared to him with a great deal of glory with her child in her lap ( and all this while , for the vision continued for some time , he thought himself awake ) by which sight he was hugely animated for all his future adventures . the first whereof was to a place of great devotion to the b. virgin , called montserrat , and in the way thither he was like to have begun his first adventure with a moore who allowed the b. virgin to have been so till her delivery , but would not yield it afterwards ; at which ignatius , considering whose knight he was , began to be so inraged , that he thought it necessary to revenge her quarrel upon him , but disputing with himself what to do , and the moore being gone another way , he leaves the cause to the wisdome of the mule , and puts the reines in his neck , that if he followed the moores way at the parting of the two wayes he would have his life , but the good mule understanding his riders mind , left the beaten road and went on to montserrat ; where a remarkable ceremony was performed by him ; for as orlandinus and maffeius expresly say , ignatius having read in books of chivalry , that the ancient knights at their first entring upon that hononourable imployment , were wont to watch all night in their arms ; he thought it fit to begin his errantry in the same manner , he therefore hangs up his sword and dagger before the altar of the b. virgin , and puts on his habiliments , but instead of his shining armour , he had gotten a long coat of sack-cloth , with a cord about it , at which he hangs his bottle for water , and instead of his lance a plain crab-tree staffe , with a wicker shooe upon one foot and the other naked , having no morrion on his head , but exposed that to the violence of the weather . all these habiliments ( having procured them by the way , ) he hung at the pummel of his saddle when he entred the town saith maffeius , ( for fear the people should think him in his wits ) but he puts them not on till he came to the sacred place where he was by the laws of chivalry to watch in them , and so he did , say they , sometimes standing , sometimes kneeling , and devoting himself with all his might to the service of the b. virgin. which having done , early the next morning ( for that is a necessary circumstance too in the adventures of chivalry ) away he goes for manresa , where he takes up his lodging in the town-hospital , and lets his haire and nailes grow , and beggs from door to door ( and yet fasted six dayes in the week ) he whipps himself thrice a day , was seven houres every day in vocal prayer , lay upon the bare ground , and all to prepare himself for his adventures to ierusalem . which sort of life growing very uneasie to him , he was once near saith maffeius , throwing himself out of a window to put an end to it ; but god ( having designed his order for a further punishment to the world ) not permitting that ; not long after he had such clear divine revelations , that in a moment of time , saith maffeius , he understood the greatest mysteries of religion , and the most subtle speculations in philosophy ( especially the way of gods making the world , made clear to him , but not expressible to others ) which other men cannot attain to with the hardest study and pains . in one of his visions , saith orlandinus , while he was repeating the horary prayers of the b. virgin , he saw the b. trinity , as plainly as we do one another , under a corporeal representation , and was so full of joy at it , that he could not hold weeping before all the people , and was so enlightned by it , that although he was yet very ignorant , he began to write a book of the glories of the b. trinity . in one of his extasies he continued eight dayes , in which it is probable , saith the same author , he saw the frame and model of the society of iesuites . a blessed sight ! if he saw all the consequences of it too . after this in order to his voyage to hierusalem , away he goes for barcelona where elizabeth rosella espying him at church sitting among the boyes , she saw a great shining about his mouth , and heard a voice within her , which bid her call that man to her house . while he was in italy in his way to hierusalem , christ appeared to him again at padua , as he was wont to do at manresa : at venice one of the senatours had a vision concerning him , checking him for lying in so much state , while that holy man ignatius lay in the open aire . visions were grown so familiar with him now , that it is to no purpose to recount those which he had at hierusalem , and elsewhere . in his return through italy , the spanish souldiers used him hardly , taking him for a spy , and carryed him to their commander ; now saith orlandinus , it had been his custome not to give men any titles of respect , but to call them only by their common names ; and he questioned a little with himself whether he ought to break that custome now he was to appear before the commander , and resolves it in the negative , because to do it proceeded from too great fear of men : therefore being brought before him , he gives him no testimony of respect either in his words or actions ; and ( both maffeius and orlandinus testifie ) he would not put off his hat to him . by which we understand , who was the first founder of that fanatick sect among us , which is distinguished so much from others , by denying common civilities to men . upon this the commander severely rebuked the souldiers , for bringing a mad man to him , at which they were so enraged , that he might have saved himself the labour of whipping himself that day ; they doing him that office very effectually . being returned to barcelona at thirty three years of age he begins to learn his grammar , but as maffeius observes , he could not have amo in his mouth , but his mind was carried he knew not whither , and was so full of visions all that while , that he could not remember one word that he learnt ; upon which he beggs his master , falling in great humility at his feet ( having it seems more reverence for him , than he had for the spanish officer ) that he would tye him punctually as he did the boys to his lessons , and if he could not say them , that he might be whipt as they were . but as dull as he was at his book , he had so great elevations in his prayers , that ( if we believe him ) one iohn paschal , saith orlandinus , saw him raised up from the ground in a dark night ; but that being a suspicious circumstance , he addes that the room at the same time was filled with a great light . having stayed out his two years at school in barcelona , to the vniversity he goes , where he privately studies logick , physicks , and divinity together , to very little purpose , as maffeius confesseth , and in the mean time preaches and beggs in the streets . here he was several times under examination by the inquisition , and once imprisoned for forty one dayes , out of which he was not dismissed , till they had commanded him not to discourse of divinity again till he had studied four years , and to wear the same habit with other students . upon this he removes to salamanca , where he finds no kinder entertainment , being put into chains in the dungeon and strictly examined ; for here he follows his former course ; he and his companions in an enthusiastical manner ( being meer lay-men , as maffeius acknowledgeth ) going up and down the streets , preaching in all places , and to all sorts of persons ; and being examined by the sub-prior of the dominicans what studies they followed , ignatius very fairly confessed the truth , that they were unlearned . he then asked him , why they took upon them to preach ; ignatius very subtilly told him , they did not preach ; they did only hold forth to the people in a familiar manner concerning vertue and vice , and thereby endeavoured to bring them to the hatred of one and love of the other . the sub-prior told him this was preaching , which no one could pretend to do , but either by learning , or immediate inspiration of the holy ghost ; and since you do not pretend to learning , you must pretend to be inspired . here ignatius finding himself caught ; resolutely denyed to give him any answer , unless he were legally impowred to examine him . say you so , said the dominican ? i will take care of that suddenly : so they were three dayes kept in the convent , and after that by order of the bishop of salamanca , were committed to close prison , where he preached to the people with great zeal , who now flocked in great numbers to him ; and gloried as much in his sufferings , and talked at the same rate , that the ring-leaders of the quakers are wont to do among us . and just with the same resolution , when the rest of the prisoners made their escape by the negligence of the keepers , ignatius and his companions would not stirr : when they were called to answer , ignatius preached at large upon several points of divinity to them , under pretence of answering questions . after twenty two dayes promising to submit themselves to the judgement of the church , they are dismissed , but with a charge in four years time not to meddle with nice cases of conscience , which ignatius took with so much indignation , that he had a present impulse upon his mind to be gone ; and no consideration whatever could hinder him , but away he must go to paris , to see if he could meet with any better success there . and accordingly he begins his journey , driving all his learning before him , which was an asse laden with books , as maffeius relates , and so reaches barcelona , and afterwards arrived safe at paris . where being sensible of his own ignorance and dulness , he resolves to ply his book better , and to that end enters himself among the boyes in the school and begins his grammar again . a sad case ! that after two years schooling at barcelona , being at two vniversities in spain , and having so many revelations , he should be yet so great a dunce that he could not tell the rules of grammar . now he finds it necessary to pray and whip less and to study more . here he finds so cold a reception , that hospitals , begging , help from countrey men , were all little enough to keep him at first from starving ; but however after eighteen months spent in learning a little latin , he applyes himself to philosophy , but the enthusiastick heat of his brain was so great , that he had much adoe to keep his mind to it , but at last he obtained his degree in philosophy after three years and a half study , or at least so much time spent there . then he goes to the dominican school to learn divinity , where he got just enough to keep him from being a heretick ; for so much maffeius his words imply . all this while his enthusiastick head was full of projects in order to the drawing disciples to himself , that he might in imitation of former heroes , found a new order : for this it is apparent he aimed at , and for the sake of this he went through so many difficulties , and pretended so much to enthusiasm , without which he knew his design could not be compassed . orlandinus therefore tells us , that being at antwerp , ( as he used to make excursions sometimes from panis to beg a subsistence ) being in a company of merchants he looked stedfastly upon a young merchant , and ( not knowing what effect such words might have upon him afterwards ) he called him aside , and told him he ought to thank god who had chosen him to build a colledge for the society of iesus in his own countrey . by which it is plain what he designed at that time , before he had yet formed any thing like a society ; and the same author would have men believe that god had then revealed it to him that he should found that society , otherwise , he saith well , no man would have taken so much pains as he did , unless he had such a thing in his head . during his abode at paris , he had prevailed upon three students , and the first thing he perswaded them to , was to give away all that they had and their books too , and to beg their bread ; which caused a great heat in the vniversity , he being suspected to have made them mad , and by force they took them away from the hospital whither he had drawn them . i omit his flying , or rather being carryed as it were in a rapture from paris to rouen , and the joy and extatick expressions he had in it ; his standing up in dirt and mire to the neck , to represent to his companion the filthiness of the sin he lived in , his so narrowly escaping being publickly whipt in the university for seducing the students , that orlandinus makes it almost a miracle : but we are now to take notice that his design being to form a society , he had for that purpose used himself to all the arts of insinuation imaginable , accommodating himself to the humours of the persons he had to do with , endeavouring to oblige all men with expressions of the greatest kindness , bearing all affronts with a wonderful dissimulation , as maffeius describes him . by these arts he labours to get some of the most hopeful students in the university to him , and at last prevailes upon nine to joyne with him : he studies their humours and applies himself accordingly , not acquainting them at first with his design , but by degrees prepares them for it ; among them xaverius at first laughed at him and despised him , but was at last won by his obsequiousness , flattery , and insinuation . and finding his former disciples soon grew weary of him and forsook him , he resolves to tye these faster , and to that end appoints a meeting in a church , dedicated to the b. virgin in the suburbs of paris ; where they all solemnly vow before receiving the eucharist ( none but themselves being present ) either to go to ierusalem , or to offer themselves to the popes service ; which was done a. d. . upon the day of assumption of the b. virgin to whose patronage they particularly devoted themselves . after this ignatius fearing their relapse , kept them together as much as might be , and used all means to prevent any differences happening among them , having now gotten persons to his mind , and for fear the friends of some of his chief confidents in spain should take them off , he offers to go himself and dispatch their business for them . in his return to spain he observes his former course of preaching and begging , and was followed by such a multitude of people that he was fain to preach in the fields , where ( which deserves admiration in so weak and mortified a man ) though he could not raise his voice , yet it was heard distinctly above a quarter of a mile , say orlandinus and ribadeneira , but maffeius more prudently omits it . but he helps us with as good a passage instead of it , ignatius was prevailed upon now by his disciples to make use of a horse in his journey to spain , which when he was come thither he left to an h●spital , which the people looked on with so much reverence that no man durst use him afterwards , but as a consecrated horse was preserved in ease and good pasture all his life time . at venice , at the time appointed , his companions meet him , where they debate their voyage to hierusalem ; and their custome orlandinus saith was this , in any matter of debate , they were to joyne together in prayer , and after seeking god , what opinion the most were of that they resolve upon , which they observed , saith he , till the self-denying ignatius , was , after much seeking god in their way made the general ; and then his will was to rule them : after a years stay about venice ( their courage being now cooled as to hierusalem ) wherein ignatius and the rest that were yet lay-men entred into orders , they determine to go to rome , and submit themselves wholly to the popes pleasure : and in the mean time wander about the countrey , preaching in the streets and market places , and making use of the bulks of shops for their pulpits , and invited the people to hear them , saith maffeius , with a loud voice and whirling their caps over their heads ; and though few understood them , being strangers , yet all admired and commended them , and no doubt they converted many , as their followers have done , from the use of laces and ribbands . all this while , since ignatius began to have any smattering of learning , we read little of his visions and revelations ; but the time coming near that he hoped for a confirmation of his order from the pope ; now saith maffeius , he began to have them again as frequently as he had at manresa ( which in a kind of a religious jest , he saith , he was wont to call his primitive church ) nay he exceeded them : for what he now saw , being above humane nature cannot be expressed ; only one vision did him a great deal of service , which was , that lying in a trance which was frequent with him as well as mahomet , he saw god the father commending ignatius and his brethren to his son iesus bearing his cross ; whom he very kindly received , and spake these words with a smile to ignatius , i will be favourable to you at rome : which gave him and his companions great comfort . at rome , hearing the fame of st. benedict and his revelations , or remembring them in the legends , he withdraws to the same place , monte cassino , and there it fell out luckily ( that he might come behind none of them in visions ) as st. benedict saw the soul of germanus go to heaven , so did he in the very same manner the soul of hozius one of his society ; and a little after as he was praying to the saints he saw hozius among them all . notwithstanding all this , they met with great difficulties at rome ; but pope paul . being throughly satisfied in the main point , of their being serviceable to the interest of that church , all other difficulties were soon conquered , and the pope himself became enthusiastical too , and cryed out , having read , saith maffeius , the first draught of the rules of the society made by ignatius , the spirit of the lord is here , and many things to the same purpose . but one of the cardinals to whom the examination of them was committed still opposing the establishing this order , ignatius flyes to his usual refuges , for besides fastings , prayers , keeping of dayes , &c. he and his friends offered three thousand masses for this end alone : ( and it must be a hard heart indeed that would not yield with so much suppling ) this cardinal all of a sudden quite changed his mind and commended the business himself to the pope : and so the society of iesus was confirmed by the popes bull , octob. a. d. . to the joy of ignatius his heart , and soon after he was made general of the order , which he accepted with as many tears and protestations , and intreaties ( till he plainly saw it was the will of god it must be so ) as ever any vsurper took the government into his hands , which he had most eagerly sought after . and now let the world judge , whether there hath appeared a greater enthusiast or pretender to revelations than ignatius was , since the dayes of mahomet , and st. francis ? methinks they might be ashamed to upbraid us with the fanaticism of the quakers and such persons , the chiefest of whom fall very much short of ignatius , in those very things for which they are condemned by us , yet any one who compares them would imagine , the life of ignatius had been their great exemplar . i know not whether any of that innocent and religious order of iesuits , had any hand in forming this new society among us ( as hath been frequently suggested ) but if one may guesse the father by the childs likeness , ignatius loyola the founder of the iesuits , was at least the grandfather of the quakers . § . . thus i have gone through the most illustrious orders of the church of rome , and shewed how they have been founded on fanaticism , and given encouragement thereby unto it . it remains now that i consider the way of devotion in greatest request among them , and prove that it doth encourage and promote enthusiasme . for this , we are to take notice that those of the church of rome , who have set themselves to the writing books of devotion , have with great zeal recommended so mystical and unintelligible a way of devotion , as though their design had been only to amuse and confound the minds of devout persons , and to prepare them for the most gross enthusiasme and extravagant illusions of fancy . but this is the fruit of leaving the scriptures and that most plain and certain way of religion delivered therein ; there can be no end of phantastical modes of devotion , and every superstitious fanatick will be still inventing more , or reviving old ones . no laws or rules publickly allowed can serve their turn , they must have something peculiar to themselves to gain a reputation of greater sanctity by ; and it is hard , if they do not light upon some affected phrases , unintelligible notions , ridiculous or singular postures , that they may be sure to charge those with following carnal reason who condemn them . and they triumph in nothing more , than when they can handsomely revenge themselves on that bitter enemy of theirs called reason , which they never do with greater pleasure than when they pretend it to be upon the account of religion . in the church of rome the case hath been thus ; among them as in all religions and places in the world , there are some persons of a temper naturally disposed more to religion than others are ; being melancholy , thoughtful , tender , and easily moved by hopes and fears . these do more easily receive the impressions of religion , which they being possessed with , if they be not carefully governed , are more lyable to fall into the dotages of superstition , or to be transported by the heats of enthusiasme . against both of them there can be no better cure imaginable than the true understanding the nature and reasonableness of the christian religion , which fills our minds with a true sense of god and goodness , and so arms us against superstition , and withall acquaints us that the conduct of the spirit of god is in the use of the greatest reason and prudence , and so prevents the follies of enthusiasme . but it being so much the design of that church to keep the members of it from knowing any thing against her interest , so much as the true practice of christianity is , and therefore keeping the bible out of the hands of the people , they must substitute some other wayes in the room of that , to gratifie the earthy dulness of a superstitious temper , and the airiness and warmth of the enthusiastical . for the former , they are abundantly provided by a tedious and ceremonious way of external devotion as dull and as cold as the earth it self ; to the other they commend abstractedness of life , mental prayer , passive unions , a deiform fund of the soul , a state of introversion , divine inspirations , which must either end in enthusiasme or madness . and the perfection of this state lying in an intime vnion with god ( as they speak ) whereby the soul is deified , is to be attained only in the way of unknowing , ( for nothing so dangerous as the use of reason ) and self-annihilation and many other things as impossible to be understood as practised . which makes it difficult to give any account of such unintelligible stuffe , for we must only grope in obscurity and profound darkness , and draw a night piece without lights . this way came first into request in the monastick orders by the examples of their founders , as will easily appear by our former discourse ; but the men who most solemnly preached and divulged it were rusbrochius , suso , harphius , &c. and he who in these latter ages hath gathered together most that had been said before him , and is commended by balthasar corderius and others as a most sublime interpreter of mystical divinity , ludovicus blosius , from these it were not difficult to put together some of their words and phrases as an account of their divinity ; but i rather choose to do it , chiefly from a late author published by mr. cressy not many years since , who after his many turnings and changes of opinions sits down at last ( as appears by his publishing mother iuliana's revelations and the preface to sancta sophia ) with the deserved character of a popish fanatick . which book of sancta sophia being compiled by mr. cressy out of many writings of father augustin baker , and set forth a. d. . with large approbations at the beginning and end of it , i hope no doctrine contained therein will be thought a scandal to their church . the design of it is as the title tells us , to give directions for the prayer of contemplation , &c. i would they had given directions for understanding it in the first place , for if we have no other help than what mr. cressy gives in his preface , we may as well hope to understand the quakers canting as mr. cressy's . let the reader judge by these few passages in his preface . the only proper disposition towards the receiving supernatural irradiations from gods holy spirit is an abstraction of life , a sequestration from all business that concern others ( though it be their salvation ) and an attendance to god alone in the depth of the spirit : and a little after , the lights here desired and prayed for are such as do expel all images of creatures , and do calm all manner of passions , to the end that the soul being in a vacuity , may be more capable of receiving and entertaining god in the pure fund of the spirit . what this pure fund of the spirit means , i had been somewhat to seek for , had not lud. blosius in the preface to his spiritual institution told us , that the deiform fund of the soul , is the simple essence of the soul stamped with a divine impress , or if this be not plain enough , that from whence ariseth a super-essential life : but if yet it cannot be understood , we may be the less troubled at it , since the same author saith afterward , that very few do know that hidden fund of their souls , or believe that they have such a thing within them . it being , it seems , like some very cunning drawer in a cabinet where the main treasure lyes , which the owner himself cannot find out , till it be broken to pieces ; for self-annihilation is necessarily required in order to it . and this super-essential life , as he admirably describes it , is a way of knowing without thoughts , of seeing in darkness , of understanding without reason , of unknowing god by perceiving him , of being melted and brought to nothing first , and then being lost and swallowed up in god ; by which means all created being is put off , and that which is only divine put on , being changed into god , as iron heated into the nature of fire . this being the state of perfection aimed at here in this world , we must now consider the directions given in order to it . to this end in the first place , a contemplative state is commended above an active as more perfect , and more easie , more simple and more secure from all errours and illusions which may be occasioned by an indiscreet use of prayer . where by an active and contemplative state we must not understand what we commonly do by those terms , but the active-state is , the use of reasoning and internal discourse to fix our affections upon god , and expressing it self in sensible devotion and outward acts of obedience to gods will ; the contemplative in the authors language is , seeking god in the obscurity of faith with a more profound introversion of spirit , and with less activity and motion in sensitive nature , and without the use of grosser images ; and such souls are not of themselves , he saith , much inclined to external works ; but they seek rather to purifie themselves and inflame their hearts to the love of god by internal , quiet and pure actuations in spirit , by a total abstraction from creatures , by solitude both external and especially internal , so disposing themselves to receive the influxes and inspirations of god , whose guidance chiefly they endeavour to follow in all things . now , he saith , the security of such a state above the other lyes in this ; that a contemplative soul tending to god , and working almost only with the heart and blind affections of the will , pouring themselves upon god apprehended only in the obscure notion of faith , not enquiring what he is , but believing him to be that incomprehensible being which he is , and which can only be comprehended by himself , rejecting and striving to forget all images and representations of him , or any thing else ; yea transcending all operations of the imagination , and all subtlety and curiosity of reasoning , and lastly seeking an union with god only by the most pure and most intime affections of the spirit , what possibility of illusion or errour can there be to such a soul ? none doubtless : for this is more than a meer sleep of the soul , for all reasoning and images of things being wholly laid aside , there is not so much as a possibility of dreaming left . the next thing he takes notice of , which is very well observed , is that men given to sublime speculations ( or i suppose any who have the use of reason ) are not so capable of it as unlearned persons and women , and therefore father leander à sancto martino , approves the book as containing very sound and wholesome doctrine for the direction of devout souls , and fit and agreeable to our calling and rule , and especially for the use of our dames ; because they might more easily swallow it , as they do pills , without chewing ; and so find not any bitterness in it : which is to the same purpose with that reason baker himself gives , viz. that the perfection of contemplation scarcely at all lyes in the operations of the understanding . a most admirable way of contemplating with the will : but why might it not consist as well in the volition of the understanding as in the contemplation of the will ? the proper end of this contemplative life , he addes , is the attaining to an habitual and almost uninterrupted perfect union with god in the supream point of the spirit ( or rather fund as mr. cressy more mystically calls it ) and such an union as gives the soul a fruitive possession of him and a real experimental perception of his divine presence in the depth and center of the spirit , which is fully possessed and filled with him alone . and lest we should think this were all to be hoped for in this contemplative state , he saith further , that besides this active union wherein the soul her self concurrs , there are others meerly passive , in which god after a wonderful and inconceivable manner affords them interiour illuminations and touches , yet far more efficacious and divine ; in all which the soul is a meer patient and only suffers god to work his divine pleasure in her , being neither able to further or hinder it . the which unions though they last but even as it were a moment of time , yet do more illuminate and purifie the soul , than many years spent in active exercises of spiritual prayer or mortification could do . the steps he sets down in order to this state of perfection , are , . the way of external and imaginary exercises of prayer , in which without a discreet diligence and constancy in them , the soul may perhaps end her dayes therein . a sad case , to end our dayes as christ and his apostles did , who used this low dispensation of praying to the last ! but alas , they never understood these passive unions with god in the fund of the spirit , they taught men a plain and intelligible way of serving god , and bid them look for perfection in another world . . aspirations and pure elevations of the superiour will. . the divine inaction . . then when one would least expect them , follow , woful obscurities and desolations : and after them ; . comes the state of perfection . elsewhere he describes the progress towards this state of perfection thus , that he who would come to it must practise the drawing of his external senses inwardly to his internal , there losing and as it were annihilating them ; then he must draw his internal senses into the superiour powers of the soul : and there annihilate them likewise ; and those powers of the intellectual soul he must draw into that which is called their unity , and lastly that vnity which alone is capable of perfect union with god must be applied and firmly fixed on god ; wherein the perfect divine contemplation lyes . in which union , he saith , all is vacuity or emptiness , as if nothing were existent but god and the soul ; yea so far is the soul from reflecting on her own existence , that it seems to her , god and she are not distinct , but one only thing . this is called by some mystick authors the state of nothingness ; by others ( it being indifferent it seems among them ) the state of totality ; but the most sublime description of it , is that of the vnion of nothing with nothing : which being hard terms to be understood he explains them thus , that the soul being no where corporally or sensibly , is every where spiritually and immediatly united to god this infinite nothing . by which it is just as intelligible as it was before . nay ; which i think is the highest state of all , it is , that the soul comes to a feeling of her not being , and by consequence of the not being of creatures ; the which is indeed a real truth : or else intolerable nonsense ; as we cannot think it otherwise , who know we have cause to thank god , we are yet in our wits , and are not possessed with such a spiritual frenzy , as this author saith , fryer bernard one of the disciples of st. francis had ; neither was the other free from it , who as baker related , in the heat of his interiour affection , could usually cry out nothing but v. v. v. neither can any persons who have any use of their understandings left , think such discourses the effect of any thing but the height of enthusiasm or a religious madness . i do not think such expressions as those i have already produced can be paralleld by the most frantick enthusiasts that have been since the beginning of the family of love . yet these books are licensed , approved , nay admired in the roman church , whereas we have alwayes disowned , disproved , and condemned any such writers among us , and have used all care to suppress and confute them . the plain effect of such enthusiastick fooleries is to make religion laughed at by some , despised by others , and neglected by all , who take no other measures of it , than from such confounded writers . if once an unintelligible way of practical religion , become the standard of devotion , no men of sense and reason will ever set themselves about it , but leave it to be understood by mad-men and practised by fools . § . . but supposing this way were intelligible and practicable which it is not ; yet what would the effect of it be but the highest enthusiasm ? for the same author layes it down , as a fundamental rule , that god only by his holy inspirations is the guide and directour , in an internal contemplative life , and that all the light they have therein is from immediate divine illumination : as well as our strength from the divine operation : and that this light doth extend further and to more and other more particular objects than the divine light or grace , by which good christians living common lives in the world are lead , extends to , yea than it does even in those that seek perfection by the exercises of an active life . but which is very extraordinary in this supernatural light , he saith that generally when there is proposed the not doing or doing of an external work , and both of them are lawfull , the divine inspiration moves to the not doing ; but this is not all , but among the impediments to divine inspirations he reckons , not only all external duties of religion , but the doing things meerly for edification . a most excellent and apostolical doctrine ! but it is happy for the christian world the apostles had other kind of inspirations from these : or else they had never done much good in the world , or been such eminent examples of holy life and actions . what becomes of all the precepts they have left us of doing good , of mutual edification , of constant business , besides the commands for the outward duties of worship , if these be the hinderances in the way to perfection ? and although he would not have his spiritual , internal liver to pretend to extraordinary apparitions , voices , conversations with spirits , message from heaven , &c. yet in his discourse of passive vnions , he saith , that god reveals himself to the soul by a supernatural species impressed in her , which revelations are either sensible as apparitions , words , &c. or intellectual either immediately or by angels ; the effects of which supernatural inactions of god are rapts or extasies , internal visions , &c. in which , he saith , that the less experienced and imperfect are to advise with their directour about them , but those who were more eminently perfect have followed their own light in judging of those things and practising accordingly , without consulting others ; and withall addes , that such souls which receive these things must carefully observe her internal direction : and that they are not so absolutely obliged to resign their judgements and wills to others , as to neglect their own proper call received from god. and doth this doctrine now differ from that of the fanatick sectaries which have swarmed in england ? yes . mr. cressy in his preface undertakes at large to shew the difference : by answering the objection taken from thence against the publishing this doctrine , because it would justifie them in all their frenzies and disorders : and in order to this ; . he very foolishly goes about to prove the necessity of divine inspirations ; from the necessity of divine grace , for the doing good actions ; which is not denyed by the greatest enemies to enthusiasme . . he saith , we ought to correspond to those divine inspirations which stirr us up to good actions , if he means by them nothing but the assistance of divine grace , no one questions it . . that there may be false suggestions of the devil , which may appear like the motions of gods spirit . . that , it being necessary these should be distinguished from each other ; the only means imaginable , that can be proper , natural , and efficacious to obtain such a supernatural light to discern gods will in all things as pure spiritual prayer exercised by a soul living an abstracted , internal , recollected life , spent in a continual attendance on god , &c. i. e. in short , the directions of f. augustin baker . and is not this , think we , a very cunning way of vindicating his doctrine from fanaticism , to make enthusiasm necessary to distinguish the motions of the good , and bad spirit in our minds ? i have already shewed that he teaches the highest enthusiasm , and it seems those who made the objection were sensible of it . but how doth mr. cressy answer it ? by shewing what they condemn , to be necessary ; and in effect that no man can know the difference between the motions of the holy ghost and the devil , but by enthusiasme ; nay , that is the plain meaning of his words ; for this contemplative prayer , he saith , is the only means to gain such a supernatural light whereby we can distinguish one from the other . an admirable way ! to tell men they must first be mad , before they can know whether they be in their wits or no. but since this contemplative state , hath besides the common though immediate illuminations , many passive unions , or extraordinary revelations attending it , suppose the question were put how one should know whether these came from god , or the devil , what answer will mr. cressy then give ? will he return back again to try illuminations by inspirations ( as he calls them ) and so inspirations by illuminations , which is just like the scripture by the church , and the church by scripture ? but here , saith mr. cressy , is no pretending to new or strange revelations , no walking in mirabilibus super se : yes i think he doth so , when he utters these things ; for what are passive unions , but new revelations , and as great as ever any fanatick sectary pretended to ? did not they deliver this for their doctrine , that men ought to hearken to the immediate impulses of the spirit of god within them , and that now god doth acquaint his own people with his mind and will in a way peculiar to themselves ? and what have they done of the mystical way , but only changed a few terms , and asserted the thing it self higher than our enthusiasts did , who did not boast of so many raptures , visions , and revelations as those of the church of rome have done . lud. blosius in his works hath one book called monile spirituale , which consists of nothing but the new and strange revelations which were made to four women saints st. gertrude , st. mathildis , st. bridgitt , and st. catharine ; and in his preface saith , it is a sign of a carnal mind to despise such revelations as these are : for the church of god is wonderfully enlightned by them . what , saith he , did not the prophets and apostles receive truth from heaven by revelations ? as though the case were the very same in these melancholy women and in the holy prophets and apostles : and we had just as much reason to believe the effects of hysterical vapours and the divine spirit . and lest we should imagine these were only the fancies of some women , which their church would not be concerned for the credit of , he concludes with saying , that these revelations were known to the world and approved . for those of st. bridgitt we have before shewed how much they were approved ; for st. gertrudes , he saith the same ; and that one very learned and illuminate man did say after the accurate reading of them , that man could not have the spirit of god , who questioned whether those revelations came from it or no. and therefore blosius is so far from denying any new or strange revelations among them , that , being a devout man , he prays god to pardon those who questioned the authority of these revelations . but if no new revelations are allowed among them , what means that saying in the spiritual exercises of the iesuits , p. , . of the impression , a. d. . it is the great perfection of a christian to keep himself indifferent to do what god shall reveal to him , and not to determine himself to do what he hath already revealed and taught in the gospel . this is speaking to the purpose ; and lest i should seem to charge any unjustly , ( this passage not appearing in the latter impressions ) it may be found in the moral practice of the iesuits , from the bishop of malaga . but the iesuits are not so much mr. cressy's friends that he should be concerned in their vindication : i can tell him therefore of a friend of his , whom i am sure he is concerned for , that is for new and strange revelations too , and that is the worthy publisher of the sixteen revelations of mother iuliana : and if those be not new and strange , i think none ever ought to be accounted so . but supposing they have new and strange revelations among them , yet mr. cressy saith , they are not seditious and troublesome to the world , no dissolving unity or crossing lawful authority by them ; because these are enjoyed in solitude and retirements , and supposing they be mistaken , no harm would accrew to others by it . as though persons were ever the less mad for being chained , and having a keeper assigned them : such in effect do they make the office of a confessour to these contemplatives . the mischief to the world is not so great while they are kept up , but that to religion is unsufferable , while they lead devout persons in such an unintelligible way , that the highest degree of their perfection is madness . but i have already proved at large , that they have not been able in some cases , or willing in others to keep up these enthusiastical persons among them , but they have done as much to the disturbance of the peace , and been as unreclaimable among them , as ever any fanatick sectaries have done or been in england . and we are not to think that the principles of their church are such quiet , meek and obedient things , that not a man among them would ever lift up his finger to give any disturbance to the peace of a nation : for , § . . i now come to prove that they are as much guilty of the second sort of fanaticism as any sectaries among us have been , which is the resisting authority under a pretence of religion . this i shall prove by two things . . that the principles and practices of the iesuitical party in the roman church are as destructive to government , as of the most fanatick sectaries which ever have been among us . . that this party is the most countenanced and encouraged by the court of rome . . that the principles and practices of the iesuitical party in the roman church are as destructive to government as of the most fanatick sectaries which ever have been among us . what effects of fanaticism have we seen in england so dreadful which may not be paralled with examples , or justified by the principles of that party ? is it , that so many mens lives have been destroyed under a pretence of religion ? and do they think the massacre at paris and the rebellion in ireland can ever be forgotten by us ? is it , that government was supposed by them to be so originally in the people , that they by their representatives may call their soveraign to an account , and alter the form of government ? this is the express doctrine of the iesuits : for , saith bellarmin , civil power is immediately in the people as the immediate subject of it : and is indifferently transferred by them either to one or many ; and if they see cause may change it as they see good from a monarchy , to an aristocratie or a democratie . but because after the writing that book , some persons had published a doctrine contrary to his , therefore in the recognition of his works he endeavours to strengthen what he had delivered , and produces a saying of navarre , that the people never do transferr their power so far to the king , but they retain it habitually in themselves , and may in certain cases resume it into their own hands . iohn mariana , whose name will never be forgotten in these matters , determines the case plainly , that if there be no hope of a princes amendment , the common-wealth may take away his kingdom , and because that cannot be done without war , they may raise armies against him , and having proclaimed the king their publick enemy may take away his life . reynolds in his book of the just abdication of henry . of france , saith that all the majesty of the kingdom is in the assembly of the states , to whom it belongs to bridle the kingly power , and to settle all things that belong to the publick government . this is a doctrine fitted for such a season wherein there is hopes to prevail upon a considerable party ( as in the league in france ) to do their business , but in case the states of the kingdom be faithful to their prince , they have easier wayes of dispatch . and to this end they declare it lawful for any person to take away the life of a prince excommunicated by the pope . but here their juggling and shuffling shew their meaning is not good , for they who mean honestly are not afraid to speak plainly . if any one ask them , whether it be lawful to kill their soveraign ? they will tell you by no means , and that none of them ever said so ; but being excommunicated they do not account him their soveraign , and so they may lawfully do it . nay it is avowed by some of them , that it is a point of faith to believe it is in the popes power to depose heretical princes , and that subjects are upon their being declared heretical thereby absolved from all duty of obedience to them . nay that there needs no sentence of the pope to be pronounced against him : and mariana makes an intention of publick good , or , the advice of grave men sufficient , such as the jesuites in france were to clement , chastel , and ravaillac , the first and last the actual murtherers of henry . and henry . and the second shewed his good intention when he stabbed henry . in the mouth . if any priest or fryer should attempt it , they have an excellent salvo for him , that being a spiritual person ( acording to their doctrine of exemption ) he is no subject to the king. if the authority of the council of constance be objected by them as the doctrine of their church against these principles , they have withall given us an answer , that it meddles not with the case of soveraign heretical princes excommunicated by the pope . i need not produce the particular testimonies in this matter of bellarmin , suarez , valentia , vasquez , with the herd of the iesuitical order who follow these , having been produced by so many already , and particularly by the two worthy authors of the answer to philanax , and the papists apology , from the latter of whom , we shortly expect a more accurate examination of these things : and by the former , may appear what influence the iesuitical party had upon the most barbarous effects of fanaticism here , in the murther of a most excellent prince . to whose observations i shall only adde this , that a. d. . a book was printed with this title several speeches delivered at a conference concerning the power of parliament to proceed against their king for misgovernment , licensed by gilb. mabbot , which is , word for word , taken out of parsons the iesuites book of succession to the crown of england , ( purposely designed against our kings title ) as will appear to any one who will take the pains to compare them . by which we may see to whom our fanaticks owed their principles and their precedents , and how much father parsons ( though at that distance ) contributed to the cutting off the kings head. but it may be now they have changed their principles and renounced all these doctrines ; we should like them so much the better if they once did this freely and sincerely , and not with sly tricks and aequivocations which they use in these matters whenever they are pinched with them . let them without mental reservations declare but these two points , that the pope cannot absolve the kings subjects from the oath of allegiance they make to him , and that though the pope should excommunicate the king as a heretick and raise war against him , they are bound to defend the king against the pope ; and by the owning these two propositions , they will gain more upon our belief of their fidelity , than the large volumn in vindication of the irish remonstrance hath done ; for there they falter in the very entrance ; for being charged from rome , that by their remonstrance they had fallen under the condemnation of the bull of paul . against the oath of allegiance , they give these three answers which ought to be considered by us . . that in the oath of allegiance they swear and testifie in their consciences before god and the world , that king charles is their lawful king , and that the pope hath no power to depose , &c. whereas they only acknowledge it . . that in the oath of allegiance , the contrary opinion is condemned which is not in theirs . . that in the oath of allegiance , they declare that they believe that the pope cannot dispense with that oath or any part of it ; but this is omitted by them : and surely not without reason on their parts , but with little satisfaction on ours . and it is easie to observe that this remonstrance was grounded upon this , that the pope owned our king to be lawful king of england ( a great kindness ) and this being supposed all the rest follows naturally as they well prove against the divines of lovain ; but suppose it should come into his holiness's head , to be of another opinion , we see no assurance but they will be so too . and it may make the pope more cautious for the future , how he declares himself when such ill use is made of it ; and others how they rely upon such remonstrances which have still a tacit reservation of the popes power to declare and dispense . but will they declare it unlawful to resist authority when the cause of their church is concerned ; and supposing that thereby they can settle the pope in the full exercise of his spiritual authority among us ? no , this is their good old cause that undermines parliaments , that sanctifies rebellion , and turns nuptials into massacres . this is that which changes blood into holy water , and dying for treason into martyrdome ; this is that which gives the glory at rome to regicides , and makes the pictures of gueret , guignard and garnet so much valued there ; of which we have a sufficient testimony from mons. s. amour ; who tells us that among the several pourtraicts of jesuits publickly sold there with permission of the superiour , he saw one of garnet , with this inscription , pater henricus garnetus anglus londini pro fide catholicâ suspensus & sectus maii . father henry garnet hanged and quartered at london for the catholick faith : by which we see that treason and the catholick faith are all one at rome ; for nothing can be more notorious than that garnet suffered only on the account of the gunpowder-treason ; of which as m. s. amour observes , he acknowledged himself guilty before he dyed . the most dangerous sect among us , is of those who under pretence of setting up the kingdom of christ , think it lawful to overturn the kingdoms of the world. but herein they have mightily the advantage of those of the church of rome , that what they do for christ , the other do it only for his vicar : and surely if either were lawful , it is much fitter to do it for one , than for the other . we are of opinion that it is somewhat better being under christs own government than the popes whatever they think ; but we condemn any opposition to government under any pretence whatsoever ; and though venner and his company acted to the height of fanaticism among our sectaries , yet guido faux with his companions in their church went beyond them . . that party which hath been most destructive to civil government , hath had the most countenance and encouragement from rome . of which i shall give but two instances but sufficient to prove the thing , a. d. . of december iohn chastel a citizens son of paris , and disciple of the iesuites , having been three years in the school , watched his opportunity to stabb henry . but by his stooping just at the time of the blow , he struck him only into the mouth ; upon which the iesuits were banished france , and a pyramid erected in their place of his fathers house , in the front whereof towards the palace gate , the arrest of the court of parliament against the traitor was engraven , containing his examination and confession of being a scholler of the iesuits , a disciple of guerets , and the sentence passed upon him because he believed it lawful to kill kings , that henry . was not in the church till he was approved by the pope , &c. this arrest continued without notice taken of it at rome , till october . a. d. . and on that day it was condemned by the order of the inquisition and put into the index expurgatorius , as it is at this day to be seen . which was a time wherein many reports were fled abroad in many parts of the murther of henry . and letters came to paris from several places to know the truth of it ; and the consequence of this was , that it being found how careful the court of rome was to preserve the honour of regicides , it was but seven months and twenty four dayes , before ravaillac perfected that work which the other had begun . this observation i owe to an ingenuous and learned doctor of the sorbon yet living , who detests these practices and doctrines , and himself lyes under the same censure there . and the more to abuse the world , on the same day a book of mariana's was suspended , which those who look no farther than the name might imagine , was the dangerous book so much complained of ; but upon search it appears to be a book quite of another nature concerning coynes . the latter instance concerns the irish remonstrance , the account of which i take from caron the publisher of it . the popish clergy of ireland ( a very few excepted ) were accused of rebellion , for opposing themselves to the kings authority , by the instigation of the popes nuncio , after which followed a meeting of the popish bishops , where they banished the kings lieutenant and took the royal authority upon themselves , almost all the clergy and a great part of the people joyned with them : and therefore it was necessary since the kings return to give him better satisfaction concerning their allegiance , and to decline the oath of allegiance , which they must otherwise have taken , some of them agree upon this remonstrance to present to the king , the news of which was no sooner come to rome , but cardinal barberin sends a letter to the irish nobility july a. d. . to bid them take heed of being drawn into the ditch by those blind guides ; who had subscribed to some propositions testifying their loyalty to the king , which had been before condemned by the apostolick see. after this the popes nuncio at brussels , iuly . . sends them word how displeasing their remonstrance was at rome , and that after diligent examination by the cardinals and divines , they found it contained propositions already condemned by paul . and innocent . and therefore the pope gave him order to publish this among them , that he was so far from approving their remonstrance , that he did not so much as permit it , or connive at it , and was extremely grieved that the irish nobility were drawn into it , and therefore condemned it in this form , that it could not be kept without breach of faith , according to the decree of paul . and that it denyed the popes authority in matters of faith according to that of innocent . by this very late instance we see what little countenance they receive from rome who offer to give any reasonable security to the king of their loyalty ; and by the popes own declaration , the giving of it is an injury to the faith , and a denying his supremacy . for which we are to understand that a. d. . when the papists were willing to make as good terms for themselves as they could , and it was objected to them , that they held principles inconsistent with civil government , viz. that the pope can absolve them from their obedience , that he can depose and destroy heretical magistrates , that he can dispense with all oaths and contracts they make with those whom they call hereticks ; upon which they met together and to save themselves from banishment resolved them in the negative , but no sooner was this heard at rome , but the sacred congregation condemned this resolution as heretical , and the subscribers as lyable to the penalties against those who deny the popes authority in matters of faith , upon which they are cited to appear at rome , and censures and prisons are there prepared for them . the summ of it then , is , that they can give no security of their loyalty to the king against the popes power to depose him , and absolve his subjects from whatever oaths they make to him , or they must be accounted hereticks at rome for so doing . for this good old cause is as much still in request at rome , as ever : and it is in their power to be accounted hereticks at rome , or bad subjects in their own countrey ; but one of them they cannot avoid . so much may suffice to shew that the most dangerous principles of fanaticism either as to enthusiasm or civil government are owned and allowed in the church of rome ; and therefore the number of fanaticks among us is very unjustly charged upon the reading the scriptures in our own language . chap. v. of the divisions of the roman church . the great pretence of vnity in the church of rome considered . the popes authority the fountain of that vnity ; what that authority is which is challenged by the popes over the christian world ; the disturbances which have happened therein on the account of it . the first revolt of rome from the empire caused by the popes ; baronius his arguments answered . rebellion the foundation of the greatness of that church . the cause of the strict league between the popes and the posterity of charles martel . the disturbances made by popes in the new empire : of the quarrels of greg. . with the emperour and other christian princes , upon the pretence of the popes authority . more disturbances on that account in christendome , than any other matter of religion . of the schisms which have happened in the roman church : particularly those after the time of formosus , wherein his ordinations were nulled by his successours , the popes opposition to each other in that age : the miserable state of that church then described . of the schisms of latter times , by the italick and gallick factions , the long continuance of them . the mischief of those schisms on their own principles . of the divisions in that church about matters of order and government . the differences between the bishops and the monastick orders about exemptions and priviledges ; the history of that controversie and the bad success the popes had in attempting to compose it . of the quarrel between the regulars and seculars in england . the continuance of that controversie here and in france . the jesuits enmity to the episcopal order and jurisdiction : the hard case of the bishop of angelopolis in america . the popes still favour the regulars , as much as they dare . the jesuits way of converting the chinese discovered by that bishop . of the differences in matters of doctrine in that church . they have no better way to compose them than we . the popes authority never truly ended one controversie among them . their wayes to evade the decisions of popes and councils . their dissensions are about matters of faith . the wayes taken to excuse their own differences will make none between them and us , manifested by sancta clara's exposition of the articles . their disputes not confined to their schools , proved , by a particular instance about the immaculate conception ; the infinite scandals , confessed by their own authors , to have been in their church about it . from all which it appears that the church of rome can have no advantage in point of vnity above ours . . § . . the other thing objected , as flowing from the promiscuous reading the scriptures , is , the number of our sects , and the disturbances which have been among us upon their account : whereas among them the government of the church is so ordered as to keep all in peace and vnity . this makes it necessary to examine that admirable vnity they boast so much of ; and either they mean by it , that there hath been less disturbance in the world before the reformation , or no schisms among themselves , or no differences in the matters of religion . but i shall now prove : . that there have never been greater disturbances in the world than upon the account of that authority of the pope , which they look on as the foundation of their vnity . . that there have happened great and scandalous schisms among themselves on the same account . . that their differences in religion both as to matter of order and doctrine have been as great and managed with as much animosity as any among us . . the disturbances in the world upon the account of the popes authority : i meddle not barely with his usurpations , ( which work is lately and largely done , ) but the effects of them in these western churches . for which we are to consider what authority that is , which the pope challenges , and what disturbances hath been given to the peace of christendome by it . the authority claimed by the pope , is that of being vniversal pastor over the catholick church , by vertue of which not only spiritual direction in matters of faith , but an actual jurisdiction over all the members of it doth belong unto him . for otherwise they say the government of the church is imperfect and insufficient for its end ; because princes may easily overthrow the unity of the church by favouring hereticks , if they be not in subjection to the pope as to their temporal concernments , because it may happen that they have a regard to no other but these ; if it were not therefore in the popes power to depose princes and absolve subjects from their alleagiance , when they oppose the vnity of the church , his power , say they , is an insignificant title , and cannot reach the end it was designed for . besides they urge , that all princes coming into the church are to be supposed to submit their scepters to christ , so as to lose them in case they act contrary to the catholick church , of which they are made members : for whosoever doth not hate father and mother , &c. cannot be my disciple . and what officer is there so fit to take all escheats and forfeitures of power as christs own vicar upon earth ? but to adde more strength , bellarmin very prettily proves it out of pasce oves , for every pastor must have a threefold power to defend his flock , a power over wolves to keep them from destroying the sheep , a power over the rams that they do not hurt them , and a power over the sheep to give them convenient food ; now , saith he , very subtilly , if a prince of a sheep should turn a ram or a wolf , must not he have power to drive him away , and to keep the people from following him ? this is then the only current doctrine concerning the popes authority in the court of rome , although some mince the matter more than others do , and talk only of an indirect power , yet they all mean the same thing , and ascribe such power to the pope , whereby he may depose princes and absolve subjects from the duty they owe to them . and how much in request this doctrine continues at rome appears by the counsel given by michael lonigo , master of the palace , to pope greg. . printed a. d. . about perswading the duke of bavaria then newly made elector to receive a confirmation of his title from the pope ; to which end , he saith , some skilful person ought to be imployed to acquaint him , that the power of the empire was the meer issue of the church , and did spring from it as a child from the mother , and that it was a great sin for any christian to call this into question ; and consequently the popes power and authority to determine concerning the state and affairs of the empire , and this he attempts to prove by no fewer than nineteen arguments , all of them drawn from the former usurpations of the popes and encroachments upon the empire : from whence he concludes that the electorship could not be lawfully taken away from one and given to another , without the popes consent and authority , and that such a disposal of it was in it self null , and of no force . the same year came forth a book of aphorisms concerning the restoring the state of the church , by the decree and approbation of the colledge of cardinals , collected by the same person and by him presented to the pope ; wherein the same power of the pope is asserted , and that it belongs to him to transferr the electoral dignity from one to another ; and that it ought to be taken away from the electors of saxony and brandenburg for opposing his authority , and that to allow the emperour authority in these things was to rob the apostolick see of its due rights . by which we may understand what that authority over the church is , which is challenged by the pope as supream pastour in order to the preserving the unity of it . § . . we now consider what the blessed effects of this pretended power hath been in the christian world ; and i doubt not to make it appear that this very thing hath caused more warrs and bloodshed , more confusions and disorders , more revolts and rebellions in christendome , than all other causes put together have done , since the time it was first challenged ; and this i shall prove from their own authors , and such whose credit is the greatest among them . the revolt of rome and the adjacent parts from the subjection due to the roman emperour , then resident at constantinople , was wholly caused by the pope . the first pope saith onuphrius , that ever durst openly resist the emperour was constantine . who opposed philippicus in the matter of images , which the emperour commanded to be pulled down because they were abused to idolatry , and the pope utterly refused to obey ; and not only so , but set up more in opposition to him in the pertico of st. peter , and forbad the use of the emperours name and title in any publick writings or coines . the same command was not long after renewed by leo . upon which , saith onuphrius , gregory . then pope took away the small remainder of the roman empire from him in italy : and sigonius more expresly , that he not only excommunicated the emperour , but absolved all the people of italy from their alleagiance , and forbad the payment of any tribute to him ; whereupon the inhabitants of rome , campania , ravenna , and pentapolis , i.e. the region about ancona , immediately rebelled , and rose up in opposition to their magistrates whom they destroyed . at ravenna , paulus the emperours lieutenant or exarch was killed ; at rome , peter the governour had his eyes put out , in campania , exhilaratus and his son hadrian were both murdered by the people of rome , and not content with this , he writ a letter to the emperour full of the greatest reproaches imaginable . baronius is here very hard put to it , to vindicate the pope , for he confesses the rebellion of the people was occasioned by the popes opposing the emperour , and commends their zeal for religion in it , and acknowledgeth that the emperour laid all the blame on the pope , and that the greek historians , theophanes , and zonaras do so too ; but all this he saith proceeded only from their spight against the roman church and their ignorance of affairs in it ; but if we believe him , the pope rather endeavoured to keep them in obedience to the emperour , and when they would have chosen another he opposed it : which he proves from paulus diaconus and anastasius . but what is that to the business ? the question is not , whether the pope did not hinder the choosing another emperour , but whether he did not draw the people off from their obedience to the emperour that then was ? and this is not only affirmed by the greek historians ; but by those of the roman church . sigebert saith , that gregory . finding the emperour incorrigible , he made rome , italy and all the west to revolt from him , and forbad his tributes : the same is affirmed by otto frisingensis , conradus vrspergensis , hieronymus rubeus and others , who cannot be suspected of any enmity to the roman church . as for the making a new emperour , therein the pope had another game to play , he was not willing the souldiery should make another emperour ; for as hadrianus valesius well observes the pope durst not so affront the emperour , if he had not held a private correspondency with charles martel at that time , whose honour and armes were the greatest in these western parts . having thereby strengthened his interest against both the emperour his known enemy and the lombards that were at best but unfaithful friends , he makes what advantage he can of the places that owed subjection to the emperour to make up the patrimony of the church : as valesius observes particularly of sutrium , but sigonius saith , the people not only cast off the emperour , but did swear to be faithful to the pope , ( no wonder then he was not willing to have a new emperour chosen ) so that at this time rome , and the roman dutchy came into the hands of the pope , the cities of which are enumerated by sigonius ; and therefore papirius massonus deservedly makes this pope , the founder of the greatness of the roman church : which we see was laid in down-right rebellion : and can be no otherwise justified than by making the pope absolute governour of the world. not long after the pope begins saith valesius , a warr with the lombards who watched any occasion to take away some part of his newly gotten patrimony , he therefore sends away anastasius and sergius into france to charles martel , with the keyes of st. peters sepulchre , in token of their owning him as their protector . which embassie being acceptable to charles , he procures a peace to be concluded between the lombards and the romans : which was contrary to the popes desire , who sent several letters and messengers to him to come into italy to revenge st. peters quarrel against the lombards with fire and sword ; and as he loved st. peter he would come with all speed into italy ; as appears by the letters still extant and published by sirmondus . but he soon after dying , his son pepin succeeding in all his power , and growing weary of having so much as the name of a king above him , sends to pope zachary to know whether it were not fitter for him to bear the name who did all the business of a king , who very well understood his meaning and readily assented to it , upon which chilperick was deposed and put into a monastery , and pepin was afterwards absolved by the pope from his oath of fidelity , with all the nobles and people . there being now so close a league between the popes interest and pepins , the ones title to his crown depending on the popes authority , the others security upon his protection , no wonder to see them endeavour the promoting each others advantage . the popes territories being not long after molested by aistulphus king of the lombards , stephen writes a very pittiful letter of complaint to pepin , and charles and charlemagne his sons , wherein he saith that aistulphus had almost broke his heart with grief , because he would not leave one foot of land to st. peter and the holy church ; and therefore he conjures them by st. peter who had anointed them kings , that they would recover the lands again out of the lombards hands , or otherwise they may think what a sad account they will give to st. peter in the day of judgement : these are the words of the popes letter lately published by delaland sirmondus his nephew in his supplement of the gallican councils . upon this , pepin comes to his assistance , and every peace addes still more to the churches revenew , by which it was now grown very considerable by the spoiles of the empire , the exarchat of ravenna in pope stephens time being destroyed , which was the only remainder then left of the empire in italy : and the revenews of it were given by pepin to the church of rome : as appears by an ancient inscription in ravenna mentioned by papirius massonus . which the pope solicited hard for , when he went himself into france on purpose to stirr up pepin against the lombards , and was much afraid lest the exarchat should have been restored again to the emperour ; but pepin promising to give the region of pentapolis and ravenna to the roman see ( assoon as he had taken them from the lombards ) the pope went away well satisfied : and drew after him a mighty army , whereby a great part of italy was laid waste , and the people miserably harrassed ; for no other end , but to secure that to the pope which did by all right belong to the emperour . who sent ambassadours first to the pope , and then to pepin to desire the restitution of those places , to their true owner , but the pope denyed , and pepin urged the promise he had already made to the pope , and that he could not go back from it ; because he undertook that quarrel meerly for his souls , and the popes sake , without expecting any advantage to himself by it . aistulphus being dead , desiderius takes upon him the kingdom of lombardy , but he fearing rachis the right heir , makes a league presently with the pope , and by surrendring up some more cities , makes him wholly of his party , and rachis is fain to retire again to a monastery : but after a while , desiderius finds an occasion to quarrel with the pope , and takes several cities into his hands which the pope had gotten possession of , and threatens suddenly to besiege rome , pope adrian finding himself in these straights dispatches away messengers with all speed to charles the son of pepin , that he would imitate his father and grandfather in relieving the church of rome in this distress . charles not willing to omit such an opportunity of inlarging his dominions enters italy with a great army , and in a little time puts a period to the kingdom of lombardy , which had then lasted in italy years ; and was magnificently received at rome by hadrian and the people , by whom he was chosen protector of the roman church and state under the name of patritius ; and he being desired by hadrian to confirm his fathers promises to the church , not only doth that , but addes a considerable accession , the more firmly to oblige the romans , and especially the pope to him . italy being thus reduced , nothing was now wanting to charles but the title of emperour , having already so great a dominion in italy , besides what he had in germany and france . this had been often treated on between the pope and him , but the seditions of rome by the emperours party frequently happening by the presence of some of his officers there , as platina confesseth , and his party being not inconsiderable in other parts , though not daring publickly to appear , and charles by his warrs being elsewhere employed , this was put off till pope leo . by the conspiracy of some of the chief citizens of rome was seized on and imprisoned , from whence making a difficult escape , he goes in haste to charles , who coming into italy and punishing the conspiratours , the pope then , ( some say , by his own authority , of which number bellarmin reckons thirty three authors , others by the consent of the senate and people ) declares charles to be emperour of rome , who solemnly performs the office of his inauguration . thus we have seen the foundation laid of the greatness of the roman church , which being begun in rebellion was carryed on by continual warrs , and so great devastations of the countrey , that platina and blondus both say , that the countrey about rome , suffered more in that time than in all the invasions of the barbarous nations for years before . and was not the church like to enjoy much happiness and peace under a government founded in rebellion and maintained by blood ? for we see the popes were the great instruments of casting off their lawful prince , and taking his territories to themselves and to maintain what they had unjustly gotten , never scrupled beginning quarrels , making warrs , calling in any forrain assistance that might the most serve to promote their designes . § . . it might now be imagined that the popes having been so highly obliged by charlemagne , they should in meer gratitude have done their utmost to preserve the empire in peace under his posterity , but they are great strangers to the court of rome who look for any thing there , but what tends to their own advantage . for in the time of ludovicus pius son of charles the great , his sons combining together against him in france , the pope gregory . going thither under a pretence of reconciling them joynes with the sons in their rebellion against their father . this baronius would have to be a meer calumny , and endeavours to vindicate the pope , because paulus aemilius saith , that the pope abrogated the decree , whereby ludovicus was deprived of the empire : but baronius understood his business too well to make use of the testimony of so late an author , if he could have had any assistance from those who lived near the time . nithardus who lived in the same age , and was nearly related to the imperial family , wrote a book on purpose of the differences among the sons of ludov. pius , and he expresly saith , that they drew the pope into their party ; which is likewise affirmed by the author of the life of the said emperour , who lived at the same time , the pope , he saith , indeed pretended to reconcile them , but the event shewed it to be otherwise ; and the emperour sent to him to know if he came to him , what made him stay so long before he came at him ? and vnderstanding that he came with a design to excommunicate all that would not joyne with the sons against the father , he said , that if he came to excommunicate others , he should go away excommunicated himself , because he acted against the canons . papirius massonus , upon the testimony of nithardus ( whom he calls vitaldus ) makes gregory guilty of the conspiracy of the sons against their father : and the reason he gives of it is , that lotharius having the command of italy might dispossess him of his seat if he opposed him ; and more he saith , are ready to worship the rising than the setting sun. a very worthy excuse for the head of the church to encourage the rebellion of sons against their father , and him too who had all his life shewed as much kindness to the roman see as his ancestors had done ! sigebertus gemblacensis saith , that pope gregory went into france being of the party of the emperours sons against himself . and hincmarus the famous bishop of rhemes , who lived in the time of ludovicus his sons , in his letter to pope hadrian . saith , that gregory came into france with lotharius against the emperours will , and there was no peace in france after , as had been before ; and that he returned with infamy to rome . it would be too large a task to reckon up particularly all the quarrels , which the popes after this did either begin with or foment among christian princes , i shall only at present single out some of the most remarkable of them , not managed by beasts and monsters as their own writers call some of their popes , but persons applauded for their wisdome and courage in maintaining the dignity of their see. § . . among these , gregory . deserves the first place ; i meddle not with other things in this life , which cardinal benno hath writ , ( and is very weakly suspected by bellarmin to have been made by some lutheran ; it being first published by a zealous papist ) but that which i design , is to shew , that under a pretence of advancing his authority he was the great boutefeu of christendome . it is observed by some historians that henry . then emperour sought sixty two pitched battails ( ten more than ever iulius caesar fought ) and he may thank the pope for so many opportunities to shew his courage . for he was no sooner well settled in his chaire , but he finds a pretence of quarrelling with the emperour , and he had such a spirit of contradiction in him , that it was enough for any thing to displease him , to hear it was liked by the emperour and the bishops , as otto frisingensis reports of him . while he was yet but arch-deacon of rome , petrus damiani who was a brother cardinal with him describes him as a person of the greatest pride and insolency imaginable in a letter to pope alexander . and hildebrand his arch-deacon , wherein he calls him , sanctum satanam , a holy devil , and saith , that his venerable pride had plowed his back with such severe stripes that he was able to endure them no longer : and in another letter to himself alone , he saith , that he could not get so much as a good word from him , though he wishes he had served god and st. peter as heartily as he had served him : and that he followed no other canons but his will : and his judgement did not follow his own thoughts but his . this had been very fair towards another man ; but none of his fellow bishops are matches for him , being pope he cares for meddling with nothing under crowns and scepters , and those he takes upon him to dispose as freely as his predecessour did , when he said , all these things will i give thee , only fall down and worship me : for this was the indispensable condition with him . i shall give a brief account of the affairs of the empire in his time , chiefly from sigonius who cannot be suspected for an henrician heretick , ( as some of the german historians are called : only for asserting the just authority of their prince against the popes usurpations ) the first thing pope hildebrand began with was the business of investitures ; and at a council in the lateran he decreed that in case any one received investiture from a lay person , both he that gave and he that received it should be both excommunicated , to which he adjoyned a decree against the marriage of clergy-men , which was no sooner published by his legats in germany , but all the clergy were in an uproar , and charged the pope with contradicting s. paul , and that by this means he made way for all manner of uncleanness , and that they would rather part with their places than submit to it ; and when the arch-bishop of mentz was prevailed with to publish this decree at erford , the bishops were so enraged , that the arch-bishop fearing his life dismissed the assembly : the like opposition was made at milan against erlembaldus , who was there killed with luitprandus the only person who submitted to him : the pope highly incensed , excommunicates all the bishops who sided with the emperour , and forbids the people to communicate with any clergy men who had wives ; but not satisfied with this , he summons the emperour , very magisterially , to appear before him ; and in case of neglect , that he should be excommunicated . henry instead of appearing calls a council of bishops who pronounce him an unlawful pope , to which they all subscribed ; which message was sent to the pope before his council could meet , but hildebrand encouraged himself by the examples of his predecessors , gregory . & . ( who took away the remainder of the empire from leo ) and published a bull wherein he deprived the emperour of his authority , and absolved all his subjects from their allegiance , and forbad any to own him for their prince ; upon which a rebellion in the empire followed , only they allowed him time to make his peace with the pope , within the year , before they would choose a new emperour . the poor emperour finding so general a revolt is fain to go into italy without money or retinue , till the bishops of milan and ravenna and lombardy , who held faithful to him furnished him with both . the pope hearing that , stops his journey into germany and returns to canusium , a strong place belonging to his dear mathildis , who out of great kindness never parted from him ; thither came the german bishops first , and beg their pardon barefoot ; the pope puts them severally into cells and there feeds them with bread and water ; but at last upon promise never to discourse with the emperour before he had given him satisfaction , ( unless it were to perswade him to it ) they are dismissed . the emperour now draws near to canusium , and gets mathildis and two more of greatest interest with the pope to intercede for him ; but all they could prevail with him for , was , that this servant of servants , this follower of st. peter , even the humble minded pope hildebrand , admits him within the second wall of the town , where casting off his royal habit , he was , bare-footed in the midst of winter to wait for the popes answer , in which posture he continued three dayes together , on the fourth the pope very graciously sends him word he might come into his presence . if lucifer himself had sate in the chair , he would not have denyed him so much courtesie as his vicar shewed him ; who after submission to his own terms , and at his feet begging absolution , he absolved him . but the mean carriage of the emperour herein , extremely disobliged the italians his friends , who began to slight and contemn him for it , and to say he was unworthy the empire , and therefore would choose his son in his room : henry finding himself in this condition , returns to his old friends , who declared the terms null which the pope had forced upon him ; the pope finding the emperour resolved to defend his power ; sends away two legats into germany who met the princes at the diet in forcheim , in which by the approbation of the legats . henry is deposed and rodolphus of suevia chosen emperour . baronius charges helmoldus and albertus stadensis with falshood in saying that greg. . transferred the crown to rodolphus and sent it with the known verse upon it ; but whatever becomes of the verse , it seems strange from baronius his own story that any one should question the thing . for was not his excommunicating henry the cause of the first defection from him ? did not he absolve the people from their allegiance ? and after his absolution , when he found henry resolved to maintain his power , did not he send his legats on purpose into germany with instructions to the princes to take care of the empire ? were not his legats present at all the proceedings and approved them ? how could then the pope have no hand in it ? unless it were that he did not put the crown upon his head himself . but saith baronius , gregory 〈◊〉 an epistle of his calls peter and paul to witness that he did not know of their choosing rodolphus : but he doth not deny that they proceeded to a new choice because henry did not keep his terms with him ; he had intimations enough given him who was likest to be the man , and therefore he need not care any more , than to have a new election ; and in the instructions given to his legats , wherein he pretended to umpire the business between them ( after rodolphus had sent his son as hostage for his fidelity to the pope ) he gave them express commands that which soever of them should not obey his will , that they should resist him to the death , and excommunicate all that adhered to him , because forsooth , it was the sin of idolatry to contemn the apostolick see : and concludes his letter with that abominable hypocrisie , that herein he did not seek his own things , but the things of iesus christ. a way of abusing scripture he had taught his friend mathildis , when she used st. pauls words in a letter to the pope to express her love to him , that neither tribulation , nor distress nor persecution , nor famine , nor nakednes● , nor sword , nor death , nor life , nor principalities , &c. should be able to separate her from the love of st. peter in christ iesus our lord ; whom she meant by st. peter is very easie to understand , according to the constant dialect of this pope , whose bulls and anathema's against princes ran in st. peters name . but we leave baronius admiring the providence of god , that when princes and bishops forsook the church of rome , he raised up agnes the emperours mother , against her own son , and beatrix and matilda , of near kindred to the emperour , to support the pope against him ; and not long after we find him acknowledging that rodolphus was confirmed by the p●pe , and henry again excommunicated by him ; in the form of which excommunication extant in baronius , he desires all the world to take notice that it is in the popes power to take away empires , kingdomes , principalities , dutchies , marquisates , earldomes , and the possessions of all men from them , and give them to whom he shall think fit . but doth baronius in the least go about to explain or mitigate this ? no , but instead of it , he complains of the prosperity of the wicked , because henry obtained after this a signal victory over rodolphus in his fourth battel , wherein he was wounded in his right hand , and ( say the german historians ) acknowledged therein the just judgement of god being near his death , that being the hand wherewith he had sworn fidelity to the emperour ; and then told his friends ( whatever the pope did swear by st. peter and st. paul ) that the popes command made him break his oath , and take that honour upon him which did not belong to him ; and he wished they who had put him upon it would consider how they led men to their eternal damnation by such courses ; which having said with great grief of mind , saith helmoldus he dyed . and the pope himself did not escape much better , for the emperour marches into italy with a great army , takes in all the towns which opposed him , deposes hildebrand by the bishops of his party , as the cause of all the warr and bloodshed , and sets up gibert of ravenna under the name of clement . besieges rome , and the pope not trusting the citizens who soon left him , secures himself in a castle , from whence escaping to salerno he not long after there dyes . the only good thing we read of him is that which sigebert and florentius wigorniensis , and matthew paris report of him , from the testimony of the bishop of mentz , that he called , when he was dying , one of his friends to him , and confessed that it was through the instigation of the devil that he had made so great a disturbance in the christian world . whether they who applaud and admire him in the roman church , as particularly baronius , ( who recommended him as a pattern to paul . and rejoyced , to see a man of his spirit to succeed him ) will believe this or no , we matter not , since there is so apparent evidence for the truth of the thing . but we not only see , the whole empire put into a flame under pretence of this authority of the pope , and italy laid wast by it to so great a degree saith sigonius , that mothers devoured their children for meer hunger ; but we may find him as busie though not with equal success with other princes of christendome . he threatens the king of france to deprive him ( if he did not submit to him ) and that his subjects should certainly revolt from him , unless they would renounce their christianity ; which are the words of his bull in baronius : but finding no amendment the next year he sends another , wherein he tells him , that if according to his hard and impenitent heart , he did treasure up the wrath of god and st. peter , by the help of god he would excommunicate him and all that should obey him : the same year he excommunicates in italy robert duke of apulia , prince of the normans , and gilulphus prince of saierno , and sends an army against them . he threatens alphmsus king of spain with the sword of st. peter ; he excommunicates nicephorus emperour of constantinople ; he not only deprived boleslaus king of poland of his kingdom , but puts the whole kingdom under an interdict , and forbids the bishops anointing any for king but whom he should appoint . of all the princes of christendome i find none so much in his favour as our william the first of the norman race , for he coming into a kingdom , where he found no interest but what his sword made him , keeps a fair correspondency with the pope , receives his decrees , refuses to enter into an alliance against him , which so pleased him whom all other princes hated , that he sends to him in his distress to come to his assistance to divert the emperour , and calls him the iewel of princes , and saith that he ought to be the rule of obedience to all other princes ; but yet william himself could not escape his threatnings , when he forbad the bishops of his kingdom to go to rome , and utterly denyed taking any oath of fidelity to the pope which he pressed upon him by his legat ; although baronius make him to submit to the pope upon the receipt of his letter , whereas the letters of lanfranc and the king produced by himself , expresly contradict it . this we are sure of , that william all his time practised that right of investiture of bishop by a staff and a ring , which had been the first cause of the quarrel between the emperour and the pope ; and which he had 〈◊〉 severely forbidden in several councils a rome , thereby to maintain his own authority by taking off the bishops of several kingdoms from any aknowledgement of dependence on their own soveraign princes ; which was the truest cause of all the quarrels of christendome raised and somented by this hell-brand as the centuriatours according to their dialect call him . and although onuphrius in his life confess that this popes designs if they had taken effect would have quite overthrown the majesty of the empire , and that he was the first pope who ever attempted such things , yet he having now started so fair a game , though he dyed in the pursuit of it , his successours retrieved it and followed it with all their might and skill ; thence we read that vrban being made pope by hildebrands faction in opposition to the emperour , renews the sentence of excommunication against him , and in the council at piacenza not content barely to excommunicate him ( in the presence of agnes or adelais the emperours wife ) he uttered saith vrspergensis , very reproachful speeches against him : but he had been no fit successour for hildebrand who could content himself with bare words , especially having declared his resolution to follow the steps of so worthy a predecessour , and so he did to purpose when he set up conradus the emperours son in rebellion against his father . this baronius would fain shift off as not arising from the popes instigation but some private discontents , for which he quotes dodechindus ; but sigonius who follows the same author , saith expresly , that he took upon him the kingdom of lombardy against his father by the authority of urban himself : and bertholdus , whose testimony is afterwards produced by baronius , mentions not only their meeting at cremona , but that conradus there took an oath of fidelity to the pope , and the pope in requital solemnly promised him to give him all the advice and assistance he could for the obtaining the kingdom and empire of his father . what is somenting and encouraging rebellion in the highest degree if this be not ? and the sentence of deposition of conrade in the diet at aken , a. d. . expresly mentions , as the cause of it , his adhering to pope vrban against the emperour his father , and there his son henry declared his successour , and solemnly swears never to rebell against his father . but notwithstanding this oath , conrad being dead , this son is likewise prevailed upon by the popes instruments to rebell against his father : for pascal . succeeding vrban , had again excommunicated henry . and at a council called by him in rome he made all the bishops present by particular subscription to anathematize the emperours heresie ( as they were pleased to call it ) and to promise obedience to paschal and his successours , and to affirm what the church affirmed , and condemn what she condemns . having by this means secured the bishops from adhering to the emperours party , there wanted not agents to solicit his son to take away his crown from him . and the first thing he did upon his rebellion was to anathematize his fathers heresie ( which was keeping the empire in spight of the popes ) and to promise obedience to the pope as the bishops had done at rome : and in the diet at northausen , a. d. . he calls god to witness that it was no desire of the empire which made him take his fathers government from him ; but if he would obey the pope he would presently yield himself to him and become his slave . and when the son had in a perfidious manner seized on the person of his father , and he addressed himself to the popes legat for his safety , he plainly told him , he must look for none unless he would publickly declare the justice of hildebrand and his own unjust persecutions of the roman see. but , which is the most evident testimony of all others in this case , henry . a little before his death a. d. . at liege ( whither he was forced to retire by his sons rebellion ) sends an account of the whole quarrel to philip of france ; wherein he declares , that he had offered all reasonable satisfaction to the pope , only preserving the authority of the empire ; but this not being accepted , in a most unnatural manner , they had armed his most beloved son , his absolom against him , who by their instigation and council had most perfidiously dealt with him : but we need not so much proof of this since baronius confesseth ; that the son had no greater cause of rebelling against his father than that he was excommunicated by the pope ; and afterwards very freely delivers his mind , that in case the son did it sincerely , as he pretended , i. e. out of obedience to the see of rome , it was , saith he , an act of great piety in him to be thus cruel to his father : and that his only offence was , that he did not bind him faster till he was brought to himself , i. e. to the popes beck . o the admirable doctrine of obedience at rome ! what an excellent commentary is this upon the fifth commandment , and the thirteent to the romans ! what mighty care hath the church of rome alwayes taken to preserve peace and unity in the christian church ! the historians who report the passages of this time , tell us , there was never known so dismal an age as that was , for warres and bloodshed , for murthers and parricides , for rapines and sacriledge , for seditions and conspiracies , for horrible schisms and scandals to religion , the priests opposing the bishops , the people the priests , and in some places not only robbing the churches , burning the tithes , but trampling under foot the holy eucharist that was consecrated by such whom pope hildebrand had excommunicated . and must we after all this believe that the roman see is the fountain of vnity in the catholick church , that all warrs and rebellions arise from casting off such subjection to the popes , who have been the great fomenters of rebellion ever since hildebrands time and the disturbers of the peace of christendome ? for we are not to imagine that this quarrel ended with henry . for it was revived again in henry the fifth's time between pope paschal and him , and the pope grants him the priviledges which his father contended for ; but afterwards revoked his own grant ( perjury being no sin at rome in so holy a cause ) and raised a rebellion in the empire against him , and notwithstanding several agreements made between him and the successive popes , could enjoy no lasting peace in his time upon their account , and dyed at last without issue , going to suppress a new rebellion . after his death , conradus being to succeed as sisters son to henry . lotharius by the arts of the court of rome , was set up in opposition to him : he was fain to part with the rights of the empire to satisfie the pope , who made him receive the imperial crown at his feet . in the time of conradus who succeeded lotharius , the pope encouraged guelfo the duke of bavaria in a rebellion against him ( from whom the two loving factions of guelphs and gibellines had their beginning ) it would be endless to relate the disturbances of the christian world which arose from the contentions of several popes , about their authority with frederick barbarossa , philippus suevus , otho . frederick . ludovicus bavarus and other emperours till such time as the majesty of the empire was lost in carolus . or if we should give an account of all the warrs , and rebellions , and seditions , and quarrels which happened meerly upon pretence of the papal authority in our own nation , or in france , or elsewhere . but these may , at present , suffice to give testimony , what an excellent instrument of peace to the christian world , the authority challenged by the bishop of rome hath been : and that authority still vindicated and asserted in the court of rome . § . . . but although such civil disturbances have happened by the contentions about the papal authority , yet they may say , the church hath had its unity still as long as they were united in the same head : for this they look on as the great foundation of vnity ; for say they , the unity of the body consists in the conjunction of the members with the head , and then with one another : and although there may be many other sorts of vnity in the church , yet the essential vnity of the church , they tell us , lyes in conjunction of the members under one head. but what becomes then of the unity of the roman church , in the great number of schisms , and some of long continuance among them ? were they all members united under one head , when there were sometimes two , sometimes three several heads ? bella●mine in his chronologie , confesseth twenty six several schisms in the church of rome , but onuphrius a more diligent search●r into these things reckors up thirty , whereof some lasted ten years , some twenty , one fifty years . and it seems very strange to any one , that hears so many boasts of unity in the church of rome above others , to find more schisms in that church than in any patriarchal church in the world. we should think , if the bishop of rome had been designed head of the church and the fountain of vnity , that it was as necessary that church should be freed from intestine divisions on that account , as to be secured from errours in faith if it had the promise of infallibility ; for errours are not more contrary to infallibility , than divisions are to vnity : and the same spirit can as easily prevent schisms as heresies . but as the errours of that church are the clearest evidence against the pretence of infal●ibility , so are the schisms of it against its being the fountain of vnity ; for how can that give it to the whole church which so notoriously wanted it in it self ? i shall not need to insist on the more ancient schisms between cornelius and novatianus and their parties ; between liberius and felix , between damasus and vrsicinus , between bonifacius and eulalius , between symachus and laurentius , between bonifacius and dioscorus , between sylverius and vigi●ius , and many others . i shall only mention those which were of the longest continuance in that church , and do most apparently discover the divisions of it . i begin with that which first brake forth in the time of formosus who was set up a. d. . against sergius , whom the faction of the marquesse of tuscany would have made pope ; but the popular faction then prevailing , sergius was forced to withdraw , and formosus with continual opposition from the other party enjoyed the papacy four years and six months , not without the blood of many of the chief citizens of rome slain by arnulphus in the quarrel of formosus . after his death boniface . intruded , saith baronius , into the papal see , but was , after fifteen dayes dispossessed by stephanus . who in a council called for that purpose , nulled all the acts of formosus , deprived all those of their orders who had been ordained by him , and made them be re-ordained ; and not content with this , he caused his body to be taken out of the grave , and placed it in the popes chair with the pontifical habits on ; where after he had sufficiently reviled him , that could not revile again , he caused the three fingers to be cut off , with which he used to give benediction and orders , and the body to be thrown into tiber. this last part onuphrius would have to be a fable , and andreas victorellus from him ; but baronius saith , they are mistaken who say so ; for not only luitprandus , who lived in that age , expresly affirms it , ( although , he attributes it to sergius upon whose account , the schism begun : ) but the acts of the roman council under iohn . extant in baronius make it evident : and papirius massonus cites other ancient historians for it . upon this nulling the ordinations of formosus , a great dispute was raised in the church , for many of the bishops would not submit to re-ordination , and particularly leo bishop of nola , to whom auxilius writ his book in defence of the ordinations of formosus , a short account whereof is published by baronius from papy●ius masso ; but the whole book is now set forth from ancient manuscript by morinus ; by which we understand the controversie of that time , much better , than we could before . two things were chiefly objected against formosus his ordinations . . that against the canons of the church he was translated from one see to another ; being bishop of porto before he was made bishop of rome . . that having been degraded by iohn . ( although restored by his successour marinus , and absolved from his oath ) he was not capable of conferring orders . against the first of these auxilius shews that translation from one see to another cannot null ordination , from the testimony of pope anterus , the example of greg. nazianzen , perigenes , dositheus , reverentius , palladius , alexander , meletius , and many others . that the nicene canon against translations , was interpreted by the council of chalcedon so as not to extend to all cases , and it was so understood by pope leo and gelasius ; and however that only nulls the translation and not the ordination . against the second he pleads , that supposing it not to be lawful to remove from one episcopal see to another , yet the ordination may be valid ; for formosus was not consecrated again himself but only reconciled by marinus , that the popes gregory and leo had declared against re-ordination as much as against re-baptizing , that the canons of the apostles had forbidden it , that the ordinations by acacius were allowed by anastasius , that the bonosiaci though hereticks had their orders allowed them , that the cathari were admitted to the churches communion by the council of nice only with imposition of hands , that though liberius fell to the arian heresie , yet his ordinations afterwards were not nulled ; neither those of vigilius although he stood excommunicated by silverius , and added homicide to it : that the nulling these ordinations was to say in effect , that for twenty years together they had been without the christian religion in italy : that none but hereticks could assert these things ; that if any popes themselves speak or act against the catholick faith or religion , they are not to be followed in so doing . this is the substance of the first book of auxilius , which things are more largely insisted upon in the second . but by that book it appears most evidently that the barbarous usage of the body of formosus was most true , it being expresly mentioned therein and justified by him in the dialogue that pleads for re-ordination . and now saith baronius , began those most unhoppy times of the roman church which exceeded the persecutions of heathens or hereticks : but he out of his constant good will to civil authority lays the fault altogether upon the power of the marquesses of tuscany , who had then too great power in rome ; but he strangely admires the providence of god in keeping the heads of the church from heresie all that time . alas for them ! they did not trouble themselves about any matters of faith at all , but were wholly given over to all manner of wickedness as himself confesseth of them ; when theodora that mother of the church of rome ruled in chief , and her daughter marocia's son by pope sergius came to be pope himself ; when as platina saith it grew to be the custome of popes to null all that their predecessours had done . were not these goodly heads of the church the mean time ? and did not they keep the church in great vnity under their agreeable conduct ? methinks the providence of god , is as much concerned to preserve holiness and peace as faith in the world ; and were not these excellent instruments for doing it ! baronius grants the acts of stephanus to be such as the most barbarous nations could not endure to hear of , and are too bad to be believed : and all the following age he calls iron for its rust and barrenness , and leaden for its badness and dulness ; and confesseth that monsters of impurity then raigned in the apostolical see , that infinite evils sprung from thence , and horrible tragoedies , and mischiefs not to be spoken of . and yet a very catholick faith , and the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace must be supposed to be there infallibly all this while ; but if all their faith and unity be of such a kind as was in the century in the roman church , i should think baronius might have said more in admiration of the providence of god in preserving the catholick faith and vnity among the devils in hell ! for the scripture tells us they believe and tremble , and our saviour saith , that the devils kingdom cannot stand if it be divided against it self ; and these are clearer and stronger testimonies than can be brought of the faith and vnity of the roman church , when such horrid wickedness is acknowledged to have had dominion in it , and that church was therein unlike the devils kingdom that it was divided against it self : in the very beginning of this century pope stephen is cast into prison , and there strangled , as baronius proves from his epitaph ; and now the roman faction prevailing , they make one romanus pope , the first and only thing he did , was to condemn all that stephen had done , as platina , onuphrius , and ciacconius all agree ; but he continued not much above four months ; after him theodorus who held out about twenty dayes and followed the steps of romanus ; to him succeeded iohn . ( as platina calls him ) of the same faction , who set all formosus his acts to rights again , condemning all that stephen had done in a council at ravenna ; whither he was driven by the prevalency of the faction at rome against him ; where in the presence of seventy four bishops , the acts of the council under stephen were burnt , in which the ordinations of formosus were nulled ; and sergius , benedictus , and marinus were anathematized for being instruments in the acts against formosus . the next pope benedict escapes without any thing , but a dull epitaph ; but leo his successour had not been above forty days in the place , but he is cast into prison , by one of his servants , who is made pope in his place , and seven months after he is served the same way by sergius who now at last recovered the popedome , and the greatest thing he did was to condemn formosus again , and all who had appeared for him : so that now as sigebert saith , nothing was talked of so much as ordinations and exordinations , and superordinations ; by the contrary acts of these popes to one another . baronius confesseth this sergius to have been a man of a most infamous and dissolute life : after his death theodora was not at rest till she had gotten her gallant to be pope under the name of iohn . and what manner of cardinals , saith baronius , may we imagine such a pope would make ? but marozia her daughter was not so well pleased with him , for by her order , his brother was killed in his presence , and he put into prison and there smothered . after him , saith luitprandus , her own son by pope sergius is made pope ; who was cast into prison by his brother albericus ; who being not pleased with stephen who followed him , he was set upon and so wounded and deformed thereby , that he durst not let his face be seen ; and the seditions , saith platina , continued so high in his time , that he could do no great thing . at last , alberic's son called octavianus got possession of the see under the name of iohn . ( or . as o●hers besides platina call him ) who was such a monster for all wickedness , that otho the emperour was called into italy to displace him , who called a council , wherein he was accused for ordaining a deacon in a stable , and making a bishop of ten years of age ; but these were small faults to his adulteries , sacriledge , cruelties , drinking healths to the devil ; and at dice calling upon the devils for help . when these accusations were sent to him from the council , he only threatned to excommunicate them all , if they chose another pope against him : but they not regarding his threatning depose him , and choose leo . in his place . here baronius storms unreasonably , that a council should take upon it to depose a pope , though so abominably bad , as he confesseth this man to have been ; and makes them guilty of an intolerable errour and heresie in so doing , because it implyes their believing that the power of the keys did depend on the worth of the person : and therefore he detests leo as a schismatical pope . and to make sure of a schisme after the infamous death of iohn . being killed in the act of adultery , the opposite faction in rome chose benedict . to succeed him , who was carried away prisoner by otho into germany ; but before his death iohn . called a council , wherein he nulled all the acts of the other council , and pronounced them schismaticks , and decreed that all that were ordained by them must be re-ordained . is not here now a most admirable vnity in the roman church ? after leo another iohn is chosen by the emperours party , but , as platina saith it being now grown customary to depose popes , they drive him away by seditions against him , being first imprisoned by rotfredus and then expelled the city . but they suffered sufficiently for it , by the severity of otho against them . — the next pope , benedict . was cast into prison by the other faction , and there strangled or famished . iohn . came to his end after the same manner , dying in prison , by the faction of ferrucius the father of boniface . who was driven away from rome after his being made pope ; after whom benedict . was set up , and iohn succeeding him , boniface's faction recovering again , he was for a few months restored to the popedome . against greg. . the faction of crescentius set up one ioh. . who by the power of the emperour was deprived of his eyes and the popedome together , and a little after of his life . but these factions in rome did not end with this century , for in the next , a. d. we find a new schism breaking out on the account of them . we are contented to take the story as baronius relates it in that year . benedict . was made pope by the faction of the counts of tusculum ( frascati ) out of opposition to which and dislike of benedict , the people of rome deposed him and set up sylvester . who got the popedome by simony , and enjoyed it but three months , when ( the tusculan faction again prevailing ) sylvester was deposed and benedict restored , but finding himself hateful to the people he resigns to iohn ( called greg. . ) or as platina saith , some affirm ; sold it to him . otto frisingensis , saith , these three sat together in the city of rome , and all of them led very bad lives , as he heard himself at rome . but baronius will not have greg. . to be the same with iohn one of the schismatical popes , but gratian who by fair offers ( not to be called symony ) perswading the other three to part with their places got the possession of the popedome alone . alphons . ciacconus follows onuphrius in saying that his name was ioh. gratianus , but not one of the three anti-popes sitting together ; wherein neither baronius nor he can sufficiently clear themselves . if he were distinct there must be five popes at the same time ; for this greg. . was deprived with the rest by a council called by the emperour , henry . at sutrium . for baronius is very much mistaken in saying that the other three popes were all deprived two years before , for his own author hermannus asserts that the cause of the false popes was there diligently discussed , and greg. . deprived for simony as ciacconus expresly saith after other authors , ( however baronius strives to vindicate him out of kindness to his name sake and disciple greg. . ) and clement . is there made pope , who enjoyed it but a little time , being poisoned saith platina by damasus . who succeeded him ; but after the death of both these benedict . got into possession of the papacy again , and the fifth time after the death of leo . in whose time a great controversie arose again about re-ordination , viz. of such who had been ordained by simoniacal persons , and although leo had determined in council , that upon forty dayes pennance , they might perform the duties of their function , yet it appears by an epistle of petrus damiani , extant in baronius , that this controversie remained still , and they thought all actions done by such persons , no other than if they had been done by lay-men ; but we find nothing done in it to suppress this heresie as he calls it , although he earnestly desires the pope to condemn it . we are now falle● into the times of hildebrand , who caused benedict . to be deprived of the papacy , before he came to it himself ; for he called together the discontented cardinals at siena , where they discarded benedict and chose nicolaus . the schisme that happened in his own time , i have already spoken to , which i shall therefore pass by , as likewise the others that followed upon the opposition between the popes and emperours , although it is not to be imagined that there could be greater divisions among men than were upon the account of those two factions , especially after they came to be distinguished by the names of guelphs and gibellines , it being ordinary for them to murder each other whereever they met , for a mighty demonstration of the peace and unity of the roman church . i shall only now enquire , whether all these schisms and factions happened among them only on the account of the differences between the popes and emperours ; and we shall find , that the agreement among themselves was only from that external opposition , and when that ceased , new factions and schisms brake forth among them . of which italy was so full , that the elections of popes became the work of years , by reason of the heats which were among them ; but i meddle not with these factions in elections , although they are no great indications of the presence of the holy ghost among them . but i shall only touch at the greatest schism for continuance ever they had among them , ( as their historians reckon it ) which lasted with great animosities for fifty years together , in which all the princes of christendome were concerned , and one party condemning the other with the greatest bitterness , and condemning all the acts done by the other ; and pronouncing them null and void . this was begun upon the election of vrban . at which the cardinals , declaring a force by the souldiers and people of rome , when they were withdrawn from thence to a place of safety ; chose another pope , viz. clem. . who sate in france , as vrban and his successours did in rome , he made twenty seven cardinals , and petrus de luna or benedict . succeeded him ; and notwithstanding all the endeavours could be used to suppress this schism it still continued , and the means for that end did rather increase it , as the council of pisa , which instead of two popes made three , setting up alexander . besides greg. . and benedict . . and after him iohn . was chosen at bononia : and although afterwards the council of constance deprived iohn . and benedict . and chose martin . yet benedict never yielded ; and after his death , the cardinals that were with him chose clem. . against martin . who were so far from yielding him to be true pope , that they rather chose to rot in prison , as they did ; and so saith ciacconius this schism was ended after fifty two years , which had given so great disturbance to the whole christian world. one might have imagined now , when councils were called for that purpose , that an end should thereby be put to these schisms among them , but it was so far otherwise , that we find another schisme begun in that church not long after by the authority of the council of basil which chose felix . in opposition to eugenius . where there was not only pope against pope , but council against council too , eugenius sitting at that time with the council of florence . in the time of iulius . we find council against council again , that at pisa , and the lateran at r●me , both called general councils , and condemning each other . by which we see how far the church of rome is from being free from dangerous schisms in it self ; and therefore hath no cause to object them to others . the only thing pleaded in answer to this charge of their numerous schisms , is , that these were most of them controversies concerning elections of popes , ( which is all the salvo molanus hath for it at the end of onuphrius his chronologie ) but what is that to the purpose ? since the question was , which of them was the head of the church with whom the members were to be united ? and all those who were not united with him whom they account the true head , must be as much in schism , as they who renounce all subjection to the pope . for are not those as much in rebellion who set up an vsurper against their lawful prince ; as they who deny him to be their prince , and to have any authority over them , because they look on themselves as a free state ? there can be but one lawful head of the church by their own principles , and only they are truly united to the church , who are in conjunction with the lawful head , and therefore it follows , upon their own principles , that they must be in a state of schisme , who are united with any other than the true head. what then signifie the boasts of vnity in the roman church , if they cannot prevent the falling of their members into such dangerous schisms ? to what purpose is it to tell us of one head of the church to whom all must submit , if there have been several pretenders to that headship , and the church hath been a long time divided , which of them was the true ? unless all their vnity comes to this at last , that they have an excellent vnity among them if they could all agree : and such an vnity may be had any where . but if all were agreed , what need any means of agreement by one universal head ? or what can that universal head signifie to making vnity , when his title to his headship becomes a cause of greater divisions ? may not we say upon better grounds , that taking away the popes authority would tend much more to the peace of the church , since that hath been the cause of so great disturbances in the world and is to this day of one of the greatest differences between the several parts of the catholick church ? for as things now stand in the christian world , the bishop of rome is so far from being the fountain of vnity , that he is much rather the head of contention and the great cause of the divisions of the christian church . § . . . the differences have been as great in the roman church as out of it , both as to matters of order and doctrine . ( . for matters of order and government ; have not the controversies between the regulars and seculars among them even here in england been managed with as much heat and warmth , as to matter of episcopal jurisdiction , as between those of the church of england and the dissenters from it ? neither is this any lately started controversie among them , but hath continued ever since the prevalency of the mendicant fryers and their pretences of exemptions from episcopal jurisdiction , and encroaching upon the office of the parochial clergy . for no sooner did the fryers begin publickly under pretence of priviledges to take upon them to preach , without licence from the bishops , where they pleased , and to take other offices of the parochial clergy out of their hands , but great opposition was made against them , by all the learned men who were friends to the episcopal power , and the peace of the church . which being a matter of concernment for us to understand , i shall give a faithful account of it , from the best writers of their own church . assoon as the monastick orders were found to be very serviceable to the interests of the court of rome , it was thought convenient to keep them in an immediate dependence upon the pope in whatever countrey they were . from hence came the great favour of popes to them , and their willingness to grant them almost what priviledges they desired , because receiving them only from the plenitude of the popes power , they were obliged to maintain and defend that from whence they derived them . at first , when they led a more properly monastick life , the priviledges granted them seem to be nothing else but exempting them from some troubles which were inconsistent with it , either relating to their persons or the estates they enjoyed . after this , they began to complain of the numbers of people flocking to their churches as inconsistent with their private and retired life ; from hence we first read that publick masses by the bishop were forbid in monasteries , to prevent a concourse of people and especially of women to them . but a long time after this they lived in subjection to the bishops , and meddled no more in ecclesiastical than in secular matters . so charles m. in his capitular , commands them to keep within their monasteries , to be subject to their bishops , and to meddle in no ecclesiastical matters without the express command of the bishop . but as the popes increased their authority , the monks inlarged their priviledges , and procured exemptions from episcopal jurisdiction ; which yet was not pleasing to those who valued the churches peace above the priviledges of the monastick orders . these exemptions are therefore highly condemned by st. bernard , though a monk himself , as tending to the dissolution of the ecclesiastical government , and by ivo carnotensis , who saith , he grew weary of his episcopal government by reason of them . petrus blesensis , hath an epistle written to pope alexander . in the name of richard archbishop of canterbury , against the abbot of malmsbury , who refused subjection to the bishop of salisbury , and being cited by the archbishop to appear before him for his contempt ; he declared he would be subject to none but the pope , and said , they were pittiful abbots who did not wholly exempt themselves from the bishops power ; when they might for an annual pension to the pope obtain an absolute exemption . therefore the archbishop saith , it was time for them to complain , because this contagion did spread it self far , and the abbots set themselves against their bishops and metropolitans : and the popes by indulging these things , did command disobedience and rebellion , and arm the children against their fathers ; but these and many other complaints signified nothing in the court of rome as long as their profit and interest were advanced by it . and although we read of many affronts which the monks put upon the bishops , before the time of the mendicant fryers , yet their insolency grew the highest when they took upon them to preach in parochial churches and hear confessions without the bishops leave . thence the vniversity of paris , published the book , de periculis novissimorum temporum , which although written by s. amour , went abroad in the name of all the divines there , as appears by the beginning of it : wherein a character is given of those persons , who should make the last times so troublesome , they should be lovers of themselves , not enduring reproof , covetous both of riches and applause , high-minded , because they would not be in subjection to the bishops , but be set before them : and therefore disobedient to their spiritual fathers . and such as these are said to creep into houses , which the ordinary gloss expounds of those who enter into the houses of those who are under anothers charge : these enter not by the door as the rectors of churches do , but steal into them like thieves and robbers , and leading captive silly women , is their setting them against the bishops , and perswading them to a monastick life . these are likewise false teachers , who though never so learned and holy , teach without being sent ; and none are duly sent , but such as are chosen and authorised by the church ; such as bishops and presbyters are , the one succeeding the apostles , the other the disciples , and afterwards they deny that the pope himself can give any power to others to meddle in the charge of a parish or in preaching among them , but where they are invited to it ; because bishops themselves cannot otherwise act out of their own dioceses ; and that the pope in this case doth injury by violating the rights of others : and if he should go about to destroy what the prophets and apostles have taught , he would erre in so doing . besides , say they , if these praedicant fryers have a liberty to preach where they please , they are all universal bishops ; and because maintenance is due to all who preach , the people will be bound to pay procurations to them , which will be an unreasonable burden upon them . many other arguments they use against this new sort of itinerant preachers , and represent the dangers that came to the church by them at large : wherein they describe them as a kind of hypocritical sectaries , that abused the people under a fair shew and pretence of religion , having , as they say , a form of godliness , but denying the power of it : and that the persecution of the church by them would be equal , to what it was , by tyrants and open hereticks ; because they are familiar enemies , and do mischief under a shew of kindness . and that one of the great dangers of the church by them would be , their possessing princes and people with prejudices against the government of the church by the bishops , which , having done , they can more easily lead them into errours both against faith and a good life . that their way of dealing is first with the women , and by them seducing the men , as the devil first tempted eve and by her adam ; and when they have once seduced them , they tye them by oathes and vows , not to hearken to the counsel of their bishops , or those who have the care of their souls ▪ that the bishops ought to suppress these , and call in the publick help to do it , and to purge their dioceses of them : and that if they do it not , the blood of the people will be required of them , and destruction will come upon them for it : and though princes and people had taken their part , that ought not to discourage them : but their folly ought to be made manifest to all men . after this , they lay down the means to be used for suppressing them , and the signes for their discovery ; saying , that they are idle persons , busie bodies , wandring beggars , against the apostles express command , who would have all such excluded the church as disorderly livers : and therefore conclude with an earnest exhortation to all who have a care of the church to rise up against them ; as the pernicious enemies of its peace and welfare . all these things which are only summarily comprehended in that book , are very largely insisted upon by gul. de sancto amore in another book entituled , collections of holy scripture , which is wholly upon this subject . the mendicant fryers being thus assaulted , endeavoured to defend themselves as well as they could , and made choice of the best wits among them for their champions , such as bonaventure , and aquinas then were , who undertook their cause ; and were fain to shelter themselves under the plenitude of the popes power ; by which means they were sure to have the pope on their side ; but his authority was here no means of vnity , for the controversie continued long after , and was managed with great heat on both sides . § . . upon the great complaint of the priviledges and exemptions which the monastick orders had obtained from the popes , clement . promised to have this business discussed in the council of vienna ; and to that end gave order to several learned men to write about it , among whom particularly durandus mimatensis writ a large discourse ( not mentioned by possevin ) but printed a. d. . wherein he perswades the pope to revoke all such exemptions , because they were contrary to the ancient canons of the church , whereby from the apostles times , all places and persons whatsoever were immediately under the jurisdiction of the bishops ; and that the pope neither ought , nor could change this order of the church . because the order of bishops being appointed to prevent schisms in the church , it could not attain its end , if any persons were exempted from their jurisdiction . and if it were in the popes power to grant such exemptions , it were by no means expedient to do it ; because the order of the church would be destroyed by it , the bishops contemned , and the church divided ; and if the monastick orders paid no obedience to the bishops , the people would soon learn by their example to disobey them too . and supposing it had been expedient before , it could not be so then , because though the monastick orders were founded in a state of poverty , yet now those who were in them were arrived at such a height of intolerable pride and arrogance , that not only their abbots and priors , but the fryers thought themselves equal to bishops , and fit to be preferred before other ecclesiastical persons . thus far durandus : and aegidius romanus at the same time writ a book against the exemptions of fryers ; against both of them iacobus the abbot of the cistercians writt a defence of exemptions , which was published in vienna in the time of the council . this matter was hotly debated in that council , but the pope would not yield to the revocation of them : but renews a bull of boniface . for qualifying and composing the differences that had happened to the great scandal of the church about them : wherein he takes notice of several bulls before , which had taken no effect ( so excellent an instrument of peace is the popes authority ) and that of a long time a most grievous and dangerous discord had been between the bishops and parochial clergy on one part , and the preaching fryers on the other . therefore the pope very wisely considering , how full of danger , how prejudicial to the church , how displeasing to god so great a discord was ; and resolving wholly to remove it for the future , by his apostolical authority doth appoint and command , that the fryers should have liberty to preach in all churches , places , and publick streets at any other hour but that wherein the bishops did preach , or did command others to preach , without a particular license to preach then : a greater instance of the discords which have been in the roman church , nor of the insufficiency of the popes authority for the cure of them can hardly be produced than this is . the popes were forced to say and unsay , and retract their own grants , to mitigate and qualifie them and all to no purpose , for the differences continued as great notwithstanding them . the first pope who interposed in this quarrel was gregory . who upon complaint made by the fryers of the bishops exercising their jurisdiction over them in several things mentioned as grievances by them , he publishes two bulls or decretal epistles to forbid the bishops doing it for the future : upon this the fryers openly contemn the bishops , and preach where they please , and hear confessions , and bury the dead in spight of them ; and the parochial clergy . innocent . finding how necessary their help was to him in the controversies between him and the emperour , confirms the same priviledges to them : by which they grew so insolent , that they called the parish priests , as matthew paris relates , ideots , dunces , drunkards , blind guids ; and would make the people believe that all knowledge and sanctity was only among them : insomuch that in petrus de vineis who lived in that age and was chancellour to the emperour , we read a miserable complaint of the parochial clergy against the fryers , viz. that by these means they were brought under the greatest contempt to the general scandal of religion ; they expressing the most bitter hatred against them imaginable , reproaching their lives , and lessening their dues so as they were brought to nothing by it ; and they were made a laughing stock to all people ; that they took away the main of their imployment from them , and drew away the people from the churches to the convents , teling them the word of god was to be heard only among them . that they had nothing now left to do but to pull down their churches ; in which they had scarce any thing left besides a bell and an old resty image , but these holy fryers , while they had nothing , possessed all things , and professing poverty were extreamly rich . but innocent . a little before his death being wearied by the complaints of the bishops and clergy , revoked the priviledges which he had so largely granted to the fryers , and confined them within certain limits , forbidding them to draw away the people from their parish churches upon sundayes and holy-dayes , or admitting any to pennance who had not first confessed to their parish-priest : but the fryers were as far from being pacified by this , as the clergy were by the former ; for therein the pope upbraids them with violating the rights of others , with blaspheaming religion by such actions , displeasing god , and drawing the souls of the faithful to perdition : but he dying assoon as they had notice of this bull , they said , it was a just judgement of god upon him for revoking their priviledges . and alexander . was no sooner settled in his chair but they procured another bull from him to call in that of innocent . and immediately to suspend all execution of it ; but this did not satisfie them , for they boasted they had killed pope innocent by their prayers , and that the v. mary , every time they invocated her name ; turned to her son and said , son hear them : upon which innocent was presently struck with a palsie and dyed ; from whence arose a saying in the court of rome , from the fryers letanies good lord deliver us . this is related as true by bzovius , ad a. d. . but is looked on as a fable of the fryers , by d'attichy , raynaldus , du boulay and others of any judgement among them . but this bull of alexander , nor all the rest he made for their sakes could make the bishops and the clergy give up their rights ; for in the time of martin . the fryers procured another bull for hearing confessions without license from the bishops , upon which the contention increased between the bishops and the fryers ; insomuch , that not waiting the popes revocation of his grant which he was inclined to by the perswasions of the bishop of amiens , they called a synod of the gallican church at paris , a. d. . wherein the archbishop of bourges being president , declared to them , that being pastors of the flock , they ought to lay down their lives for their sheep , and not to suffer the encroachments were made upon them by the fryers ; by whom all things were brought to confusion in the church : that they had used all fair wayes of prevailing with them by the intreaties of the king and nobles , to forbear such intrusions into their offices as they were continually guilty of ; but all to no purpose , they still defending themselves by papal priviledges ; whereas there had been contrary bulls to another granted at rome . and it was then agreed among them , that they should maintain their own office against the fryers incroachments , by which the contention increased to so great a height , that many invectives , apologies , and libels were published one against another , to the great disgrace ( saith meyerus ) of the whole ecclesiastical order . upon which pope martin endeavoured an accommodation by another bull wherein he required , that all parishioners should confess to their own parish priest at least once a year . but this was as far from making peace as any before ; therefore from boniface . the fryers procured a new bull of priviledges , which absolutely nulls all the former bulls of restriction and limitation , and by the fulness of his apostolical power doth exempt them from all manner of power or jurisdiction of the bishops , or any other ecclesiastical persons , and decrees that they were immediately subject to the pope and to none else . and yet this pope himself not many years after , retracted this bull , and set forth that , which clement . renewed in order to the composing this difference , which had now to the great demonstration of their vnity and the popes authority continued with great violence above fifty years : and was far from being ended by this bull ; for benedict . in another published on the same occasion , saith , that instead of peace troubles arose by it , instead of unity and concord , greater divisions and disturbances : and by cutting off one head of the hydra , seven more came into its room . are not the popes great peace-makers the mean while ! therefore he resolves to try what the other way would do , and again inlarges the priviledges of the fryers , which being sound as unsuccessful as ever ; clement . resumes the constitution of boniface which this pope condemned , and to as little purpose as the other had done before . and now let us soberly consider whether there hath not alwayes been an admirable vnity in the roman church , or if divisions have arose , a ready means to suppress them ? here we have the popes interposing , by bull after bull , and so far from ending the differences that occasioned them , that they begot more , which made the popes contradict one another , nay the same pope to contradict himself , and so the differences became greater than they were at first . and after all these bulls we find the very same controversie at as great a height in england and ireland as ever it had been in france or germany ; wadding saith , it went so high that the bishops and clergy here would not suffer the fryers to enjoy any of the priviledges granted them by the popes : which caused an appeal to the pope made by the fryers , to whom in behalf of the clergy was sent richard fitz-ralph the learned bishop of armagh , best known by the name of armachanus , who there with great smartness opposed the fryers to the popes face in a long and set discourse still extant ; wherein he gives an account that coming to london about some business of his see , he found great disputes about the priviledges of the fryers ; and being desired to preach , he made seven or eight sermons wherein he declared his mind against them , both as to their order and priviledges ; in which he followed the doctrine of the divines at paris , above an hundred years before delivered by them upon the like occasion , asserting it not to be in the popes power to grant such priviledges which destroy the rights of the parochial clergy , or the jurisdiction of the bishops . the fryers charge him with heresie , as they are wont to do those who are wiser than themselves , saith boulay : armachanus dyed at avignon , but so did not the controversie with him ; although the fryers seem to have had the better there , they being the popes ianisaries and ready in all places to serve his turn : yet walsingham saith , it was not without corrupting the popes court by great bribes given by the fryers , that they obtained the confirmation of their priviledges ; yet seven years after , harpsfield saith , this controversie was referred to the parliament to be determined . very strange ! that a parliament in england should be thought a more likely means for vnity in the church than the authority of so many popes , who had interposed in it for putting an issue to this difference . after armachanus , wickliffe undertook this quarrel against the fryers , and made use of the same arguments against them , which those who defended the clergy had done before . for in his book against the orders of fryers , he particularly insists upon this , that they for pride and covetise had drawen fro curats there office and sacraments , in which lyen winning or worship , and so maken dissention betwixt curats and there ghostlié childer . which are his own words . but wickliffe and his disciples carrying the controversies much farther to points of doctrine and other practices in the roman church , made the other parties more quiet out of opposition to these whom they looked on as their common enemies . it may be therefore they will say , that although the popes pastoral power may not alwayes cure their divisions , yet the opposition of hereticks makes them run together like a flock of sheep ; if this were true , it seems they are more beholding to hereticks for their vnity , than to the popes authority : but we shall find that neither one nor the other of these , nor both together , can keep them from divisions , and those managed with as great animosity as we have ever found in the most differing sects . § . . witness the proceedings between the iesuits and the secular priests begun in wisbich castle in the latter end of q. elizabeths reign ; when it came to a separation from each other , about the authority of the arch-priest . and they mutually charged each other with being guilty of a horrible schism , maintained saith watson , by the iesuits and arch priest , with infinite violence , much infamy for the time , and innumerable particular wrongs thereupon not unknown to the meanest catholick in england . the secular priests finding themselves unjustly accused , as they said , to the pope , published a book in latin which they dedicated to his holiness , called declaratio motuum & turbarum , which saith parsons in his answer called , a manifestation of the great folly and bad spirit of certain in england calling themselves secular priests , is made up only of invectives , and passionate words , injurious , and manifest false slanders ; they in their reply charge parsons with follie and madness , and the highest degree of impudencie . if any one hath a mind to furnish himself with all the terms and phrases of scolding reproach and infamy , he may find them in the books they then writ against each other ; or if he thinks that too great a trouble , he may meet with a goodly parcel of them put together out of fa. parsons his own writings by watson at the end of the reply to parsons's libell . the short account of the breach among them was this ; all the loud talk they made abroad concerning their cruel persecution , could not hinder ambition , and envy from having its effects among them ; from these first arose misunderstandings , and then quarrels between the secular priests and the iesuits : from thence the priests proceed to the framing a sodality , ( as they called it ) among themselves , the better to strengthen themselves against the iesuits ; which they understanding prevail with one of the number of the associated priests to betray their councils , him they send to rome , who in the name of all the priests in england desired for the preventing differences for the future , and the curing those that were already , that there might be a government and subordination settled among them . fa. parsons being then at rome follows the matter close , and represents to the pope the necessity of it , because of the great discords which were among them in england . whereupon the pope according to fa. parsons desire , referrs the whole business to cardinal cajetan their protector . who being governed by the iesuits pitched upon a person wholly at their devotion ( as the seculars thought ) which was blackwell a man swayed altogether by garnet provincial of the iesuits ; ( well known for his zeal in the catholick cause by suffering as one of their martyrs in the gunpowder treason ) and one of the arch-priests instructions was , in all matters of moment to be advised by the provincial of the iesuits . the secular priests finding themselves thus over-reached by the cunning of the iesuits , and that they designed hereby wholly to govern their affairs , make many demurrs to his authority , both concerning the manner and the substance of it : and desire a breve from the pope , and then promise to submit . parsons procures one to their purpose , and an appearance of peace was for a little time among them , and they mutually promised not to charge the schism upon each other ; but within a month or six weeks , the flame brake out with greater fury than ever ; the arch-priest sending his directions into all parts , that none of the seculars should be admitted to the sacraments without acknowledging themselves schismaticks . so that the popes breve was so far from ending the difference , that it encreased it ; fa. parsons charging them , ( and the seculars not denying it ) that after it they were farther from obeying the arch-priest than they were before . so unhappy have the popes been , when they have gone about to use their authority for composing differences , among those who are in their own church ? but we leave this and come to a later controversie among them , about the same matters of order and government . richard smith titular bishop of chalcedon was invested with the authority of ordinary over their english clergy by vrban . febr. . a. d. . not long after he comes into england , and was received with so great kindness by their party here , as made the iesuits ( who are friends to none but themselves ) soon to become his enemies , especially when he began to exercise his episcopal jurisdiction here in laying restraints upon the regulars ; which the iesuits with other regulars grew so impatient of , that they soon revived the old quarrel concerning the authority and jurisdiction of bishops , and managed it with so great heat and fierceness , that the titular bishop was fain to leave the field and withdraw into france . the bottom of the quarrel was , they found the kindness of their party to them abated since the bishops coming , who before had sway'd all , and lived in great plenty and bravery , when the poor seculars got scarce bread to eate , as watson very sadly laments in his answer to parsons ; but now the necessary support of the dignity of a bishop , made the charity of their party run in another channel , which the provincial of the iesuits complains of in a letter to the bishop of chalcedon . therefore they endeavour all they can to make a party against him , among the people too ; which they did so effectually , as amounted to his withdrawing , ( a more civil word for his exile . ) and now both parties being sufficiently heated , the battel begins , in which not only england and ireland , but france and flanders were deeply engaged . the first who appeared was dr. kellison , professour of doway , in a book in vindication of the bishops authority , to whom knot then vice-provincial of the iesuits returned his modest and brief discussion , &c. under the name of nicholas smith a iesuite then dead . soon after came out another written to the same purpose under the name of daniel of iesu , whose true name was iohn fluide ( which the other , writing ioanes for iohn , was the anagram of , ) he was a iesuit too , and professour at st. omars : which books were first censured by the arch-bishop of paris , then by the sorbonne , and at last by the bishops of france in an assembly of them at paris : but the iesuits were so far from giving over by this , that they new set forth their books in latin with large approbations of them ; and publish a remonstrance against the bishop of chalcedon , in the name of the catholick party in england , which was disowned by the greatest number of them , and cast wholly upon the iesuits : the same year , . three books were published by the secular clergy here in opposition to the iesuits . who were so far from quitting the field by the number of their enemies , that they begin a fresh charge against both the sorbonne doctors and the french clergy , under the fained name of hermannus loemelius , whose chief author was the fore-named iesuite lloyd with the assistance of his brethren , as the diversity of the style shews : and another book came out against the faculty of paris in vindication of knot or nicholas smith , with many approbations of bishops , vniversities , and private doctors : and in vindication of the propositions of ireland ( likewise censured at paris ) another book came forth , under the name of edmundus vrsulanus , whose true name was mac-mahone , prior of the franciscan convent in lovain about the same time the iesuits published their censure of the apostolical creed in imitation of the censures at paris against their doctrine ( as though their doctrines were as certain as that , and themselves as infallible as the apostles : ) wherein they charge the bishops their enemies with reviving old heresies and broaching new ones . the iesuits having now done such great things , triumph unreasonably in all places , as having utterly overthrown their enemies , and beaten them out of the field : when in a little time after hallier and le maistre two doctors of the sorbonne undertake the quarrel against them ; but none was so highly magnified and infinitely applauded by the french clergy as a person under the disguised name of petrus aurelius , whose atchievements in this kind they celebrate next to those of the pucelle d' orleans , and printed all his works together at their own charge : and writ a high elogium of him which is prefixed before them . and the secular clergy of england sent him a letter of congratulation for his triumphs , subscribed by iohn colleton dean of the chapter , and edmond dutton secretary , wherein they sadly lament the discords that have been among them here , and the heresies broached by their adversaries by occasion of them . the main of-this controversie did concern the dignity , necessity , and jurisdiction of the episcopal order , as appears by the censures of the bishops of france , and by aurelius , who saith , that although the dispute began upon occasion of the bishop of chalcedon , and the english clergy , yet it was now carried farther , whether the episcopal order was necessary to the being of a particular church ? whether it was by divine right or no ? whether confirmation might be given without bishops ? whether the episcopal order was more perfect than the monastical ? whether the regulars were under the jurisdiction of bishops ? and therefore the iesuits are charged by their adversaries with a design to extirpate and ruine the whole order of episcopacy . have not these men now great reason to insult over us , that some of these questions have caused great differences among us , when the iesuits in england had laid the foundation of them by their quarrels of the same kind but a little before , and furnished the enemies to episcopacy and the church of england with so many arguments to their hands to manage their bad cause with ? but what becomes of the court of rome all this while ? do the pope and cardinals only stand still to see what the issue of the battel will be , without ever offering to compose the difference between the two parties ? no. the iesuits finding how hard they were put to it , make their address to rome as their greatest sanctuary , and a. d. . obtained a decree of the sacred congregation for suppressing the books on both sides , without judging any thing at all of the merits of the cause , or giving any censure of the authority on either side ? and is not now the popes authority an excellent remedy for all divisions in the church ? when in so great a heat as this was , the pope durst not interpose at all in the main business , for fear of losing either side ; which is a plain argument that they themselves look on his authority as so precarious a thing , that they must by no means expose it , where it is like to be called in question . were not here controversies fit to be determined ? to what purpose is that authority , that dare not be exercised when there is most need of it ? and when could there be greater need than in such a time when the church was in a flame by these contentions ? and yet so timerous a decree as this was , could find no acceptance . for at paris immediately comes out a disquisition upon it , shewing the unreasonableness of it in suppressing books without enquiring into the merits of the cause , in a matter of so great consequence as that was , that this would give great occasion of triumph to the hereticks , when such scandalous and seditious books as those of the jesuits are , meet with the same favour at rome with the censure of the bishops of france : that their profane and atheistical censure of the apostles creed must have no mark of disgrace put upon it : nor such sayings of theirs wherein they call the bishops and divines of france by most contumelious names , and say they are the enemies of the truth and piety . the iesuits instead of defending themselves against aurelius , write a pittiful defence of this decree of suppressing the books on both sides ; and so all the means which the court of rome durst use to extinguish this flame proved , but an occasion of adding to it . and whether this controversie be yet at an end among them , let all the heats in france and england of late years concerning the iesuits give testimony . § . . i shall not now insist any longer upon them , but only produce some late passages of things ( which though they happened at a greater distance , are yet sufficiently attested ) to shew what spight the iesuitical order bears to the authority of bishops , what arts they have used to enervate it , what power to affront their persons , and expose them to all the contempt that may be when they go about to stop their proceedings , or exercise any jurisdiction over them . the great occasion of the controversie between the bishops and them was , that the iesuits took upon them to preach , and hear confessions , &c. without any permission from the bishop of the diocese . so they did in the philippine islands , whereupon the arch-bishop of manille , don hernando guerrero called a synod , wherein it was resolved that the archbishop ought to bring the iesuits to account for what they did , which he did , and all the satisfaction he could get from them was , that they had priviledges ; the arch-bishop not satisfied with this , proceeds against them ; they name a conservator an enemy of the arch-bishops , ( for the popes to keep the bishops in awe , have allowed them by a bull for that purpose , liberty in case of difference between the bishops and them to choose a conservator to defend their priviledges against them ) this conservator proceeds against the arch-bishop , and the iesuits procure the governour to joyne with him , who without giving leave to him to make his defence resolve to banish him . the arch-bishop understanding their resolution to send him away , goes with the clergy about him into his chappel , and there to secure himself from the insolency of the souldiers in his pontifical habit , holds the eucharist in his hand : notwithstanding which they came and dragged out all the fryers who took the arch-bishops part , and afterwards the old arch-bishop himself , who fell down in the crowd with the pix in his hand and wounded himself in the face . such exorbitances made that impression on one of the souldiers that he drew his sword , and falling upon it said , he had rather dye by his own hands than see such enormities among christians . at last the arch-bishop was forced to let go his pix , and was presently carryed away out of the city , and put into a little pittiful barque unprovided of all things , without permitting any food to be given him or any of his servants to accompany him ; and was conveyed by five souldiers into a desart island , where he had not so much as a cabin for shelter ; and there he was kept till he yielded to their terms . o the admirable unity , peace , and submission to bishops in the roman church ! but we have yet a more remarkable instance of this kind , in the notorious case of the difference between the bishop of angelopolis in america , and the iesuits ; which was heard at rome , and several bulls published by innocent . in it . i shall give an account of it from the popes bulls , and from the letter which the bishop himself sent to the pope about it , a. d. . which is extant in the collection of the end of mr. s. amours iournal , which he had from cosimo ricciardi sub-librarykeeper of the vatican , who received it immediately from the bishops agent . the controversie began there upon the very same grounds , which it had done in the philippine islands , for the iesuits would acknowledge no subjection at all to the bishop , but would preach and hear confessions without any license from the bishop , which difference grew so high , that the iesuits chose conservators against the bishops authority ; as the popes bull granted , may . a. d. . doth declare ; and not only so , but these conservators very fairly excommunicated the bishop and his vicar general : upon this the bishop sends an agent to rome , and the iesuits appear in behalf of their society ; the pope commits the cause to a particular congregation of cardinals and bishops , who upon the hearing of both sides give sentence in favour of the bishop , apr. . a. d. . but the iesuits ( as appears by the bishops letter bearing date , ian. . a. d. . ) were resolved not to wait for the popes resolution , but finding that the people contemned their censures and adhered to the bishop , were so enraged at it , that they resolved to imprison him : to that end they bribe the king of spains vice-roy , the bishops particular enemy , with a great summ of money ; and by that means clapt up most of his friends , and threatned them with worse , if they would not obey the conservators ; the bishop himself they had appointed souldiers to seize upon on corpus christi day , ( the better day , the better deed ) who understanding their minds , sent commissioners to treat with them to prevent the tumults and disorders were like to follow on these differences ; but they used them with contempt and would hear of no terms , unless the bishop would submit himself and his jurisdiction to them and their conservators , but instead of peace they proceed to more open acts of hostility , by imprisoning his vicar general , and using all manner of insolencies among the people , who joyned with the bishop to defend him against them . the good bishop seeing things in so bad a posture , thought it his greatest prudence to withdraw to the mountains , thinking himself safer among the serpents and scorpions there , than in the city among the iesuits . there he continues for twenty dayes , almost famished , and afterwards for four months lay hid in a pittiful cottage , the iesuits in the mean time offering great summs of money to those who should bring him alive or dead . but not finding him , they bring the excommunicated conservators with great pomp into the city , and erect a tribunal or , in the language of the late times , a high●court of iustice among them , where according to their pleasure they fine , banish , imprison as many as they thought their enemies ; and there solemnly declare what mighty injury the bishop had done the iesuits , in forbidding them to preach without licenses from him , or till such time as they produced those which they had from his predecessours : then they declare the bishops see to be vacant ; and caused it to be published in the churches , that the iesuits did not need any license from the bishop , they null all censures against them , recall all orders published by the bishop for the good government of his diocese . the bishop in the mean time privately sends monitory letters to the people , to bear the present persecution with patience , but by no means to associate with , or to hear those excommunicated persons , who had offered such affronts to his authority and jurisdiction ; by which means , the people not being prevailed upon , they with a great summ of money procure some secular iudges to forme a judicial process against the bishop for sedition , to which end they suborn witnesses against him , but could make evidence of nothing tending to sedition but forbidding the iesuits to preach . this not taking , they attempt another way to expose him to contempt , upon the sacred day of their holy father ignatius , they put their scholars in mascarade , and so personating the bishop and his clergy , they make a procession through the town in the middle of the day , and sung the pater noster and ave maria as they went , with horrible blasphemies perverting both of them to the abuse of the bishop and his party , instead of saying libera nos à malo , they said libera nos à palafox , which was the name of the bishop : and others had the episcopal staffe hanging at a horses taile , and the miter on their stirrups , to let them see how much they had it under their feet : others sung lampoons against the bishop , others did such things which are not fit to be repeated : which were parts of this glorious triumph of the iesuits over the bishop and his authority . but in the midst of this excessive jollity , the king of spains navy arrived , wherein the kings commands were brought for removing the vice-roy , who was the great friend of the iesuits ; the news of this , abated their heat , and the bishop secretly conveys himself into his palace , which the people hearing of , ran with incredible numbers to embrace him , for several dayes together ; upon which the iesuits complain to the old vice-roy of a sedition , and obtained from him a command to the chapter not to yield to the bishops jurisdiction ; which caused a great division among them , one part adhering to the bishop , and another to the iesuits ; the bishop therefore seeing the differences to rise higher , and the schism to be greater , and the miserable condition the church was in among them ; was fain to submit and promise to innovate nothing , but to wait the popes decision . not long after , another ship arrived from spain , with an express from the king , wherein the vice-roy was commanded immediately to surrender his government , and was severely rebuked for assisting the iesuits against the bishop , and all the acts in that matter were nulled by the kings authority ; but the iesuits according to their usual integrity , gave out just the contrary to the orders received , and framed letters on purpose which they dispersed among the people . but these arts never holding long , when the vice-roy's successour was established , the truth brake forth ; and the bishop returned to the exercise of his former authority . but notwithstanding the kings declaration , and the popes breve was now published among them , the iesuits persisted still in their obstinate disobedience ; and although excommunicated by the bishop , yet continued to preach and act as before . and hereby we have a plain discovery what a mighty regard the iesuits have to the papal see , if it once oppose their designes ; and what an effectual instrument of peace and vnity the popes authority is ; for they presently found wayes enough to decline the force of the popes bull. for , ( . ) they said , it could have no force there , because it was not received by the council of the indies , it seems , pasce oves , and dabo tibi claves , &c. signifie nothing in the indies , unless the kings council pleases , or rather , unless the iesuits please to let it do so . ( . ) they pleaded bravely for themselves , that the priviledges granted them by the popes were in consideration of their merits , and so were of the nature of contracts and covenants ; and therefore could not be revoked by the pope . ( . ) that the popes constitutions in this matter were not received by the church , and laws which are not received are no laws : but as the bishop well urges against them , if these wayes of interpreting the popes bulls be allowed , his authority will signifie nothing , and all his constitutions shall have no more force than those against whom they are directed be pleased to yield to them ; and it will be impossible to preserve peace in the church , if it shall be in the power of offenders to declare whether the laws against them are to be received for laws or no. but this , saith he , is the inspiration and illumination of the iesuits , and their method of interpreting the papal constitutions ; which he heard very often from their own mouths in the frequent conferences he had with them about these matters ; but they had another way to decline the kings authority , for the king and his council being all lay-men , they had nothing to do in ecclesiastical matters . by which means ( as the bishop saith , ) they make themselves superiour both to king and pope , and free from all jurisdiction either spiritual or temporal . and i dare appeal to the most indifferent person , whether any doctrine broached by the greatest fanaticks among us , ever tended more to the dissolution of government , the countenancing sedition , the perpetuating schisms in the church , than these of the iesuits do ? and therefore the bishop saith , that he had rather lay down his life , than by yielding up his jurisdiction expose his authority to contempt , and the church to the continual danger of schisms ; and by many weighty arguments perswades the pope , if he truly designed the peace and flourishing of the church , speedily and effectually to reform the whole order of the iesuits ; without which , he saith , it is impossible , especially in those remoter parts , for the bishops to preserve any authority . and besides other corruptions among them , he tells strange stories of their wayes of propagating christian religion in china , and other neighbour nations ; which they boast so much of at this distance ; but , he saith , they who are so much nearer and understand those things better , have cause to lament the infinite scandals which they give to the christian religion in doing it . the account which he gives of these things , this bishop protests he sends to the pope , only to clear his own conscience , that he might not be condemned at the day of judgement for concealing that which he so certainly knew to be true by those who were eye-witnesses of it . their first work is , to hinder all persons of any other order whatsoever from coming among them ; and if they do come by one means or other , they are sure to procure their banishment and persecution ; to this end , they assist and counsel the infidels themselves in it , and make use of their hands to whip and imprison them , and so to make them weary of being there . when they are left alone , they have the liberty of telling their own stories , and no one can disprove them ; but they were not so watchful , but some of the other orders were sent as spyes upon them , and although they knew , they hazarded their lives in it , yet they made full discovery of the iesuits way of converting infidels . and they discovered such horrible things in the catechisms they gave to their new converts , that they complained to the pope of them , but , as appears by the event , to very little purpose● ; for although the iesuits could not d●ny the things they were charged with , and the congregation , de pr●pagandâ fide , at rome , s●pt . . a.d. in seventeen decrees condemned them , yet the rector of the iesuits colledge in the philippines in a book of pages , opposed those decrees , which was in the hands of the bishop of angelopolis , and he gave it to a dominican to answer , who had been in those parts himself , who fully proved the matter of fact , and answered the iesuits arguments , both which the bishop saith , were in his custody . the short of their instructions to their converts was this , to speak little of christ crucified , but to conceal that part of christian doctrine as much as may be , to use all the same customes that the idolaters did , only directing all their worship to christ and the saints ; not to trouble themselves about fasting , penance , confession , and participation of the eucharist , or the severity of repentance and mortification . they designed to recommend , as easie a religion to them as may be , the better to invite them to embrace it ; and therefore as the bishop observes , we read of no martyrs among them : the poor dominicans and franciscans are whipt , and imprisoned , and banished ; but the iesuits who preach only a glorious christ , without his passion and crosse , have far better and easier entertainment among them . but these things the bishop there gives a larger account of : i return to the controversie between the bishop and them : an agent was sent to rome by the bishop with this letter to negotiate his business there against the iesuits , a man intelligent , vigorous and undaunted , saith mr. s. amour of him ; who followed his business so close , that after long solicitation and address , he obtains another decree against the iesuits , which is extant at large in the lyons edition of the bullarium : but which ought to be observed , is since prohibited by the index expurgatorius of alexander . by whose means that was procured is easie to conjecture , when we consider with what difficulty the decree was obtained ; and for above a year after the passing it , the coming of it forth was hindred by cardinal spada under-hand , who was a great friend to the iesuits . and when it did come forth , the iesuits bought up all the copies of it they could , on purpose to abolish the memory of it : which made them obtain the prohibition of the bullarium , till that part were purged out of it . but if the popes had any real kindness for the authority of bishops , they would never suffer such encroachments to be made upon them , as they do , nor shew so much favour to the contemners of it . but this is one of the grand intrigues of the roman court , to keep the bishops down by the priviledges of the regulars who are immediate dependents on the popes ; only at some times when they cannot help it , they must seem to curb them , but yet so as to keep them in heart enough to bait the bishops , when they begin to exercise their authority as they ought to do in the reformation of abuses and disorders . but by these heats and controversies among them about matters of government and order , it appears that they have no cause to upbraid us with our dissensions about them : and that they have no more effectual means to suppress them than we. § . . . as to matters of doctrine . the least thing any one could imagine by all the boasts of vnity among them , and upbraiding others with their dissensions , is , that they are all of one mind in matters of doctrine ; but he must believe against common sense and experience that can believe this . for we know their divisions well enough , and that it is as easie a matter to compose all the differences among us as among them . we may assoon perswade the quakers to vniformity , as reconcile the dominicans and the iesuits ; and all our sects will agree assoon as the factions of the thomists and scotists ; the presbyterians and independents will yield to episcopal jurisdiction , assoon as the monastick orders will quit their priviledges ; the arminians and calvinists will be all of a mind when the iansenists and molinists are : and we are apt to think that our controversies about ceremonies are not altogether of so great importance as theirs about infallibility . but it is a very pleasant thing to see by what arts they go about to perswade credudulous people , that what would be called divisions any where else , is an admirable vnion among them ; they might assoon perswade them that the seven hills of rome are the bottomless pit ; or that contradictions may be true . for either the pope is infallible or he is not , either the supream government of the church is committed to him alone as s. peters successor , or to the representative church in a council , either he hath a temporal power to command princes , or he hath not ; either the v. mary was conceived with original sin , or she was not ; either there is a pre-determination , or there is not ; either souls may be delivered out of purgatory , or they may not : dare any of them say they are all of a mind in the church of rome about these points ? i am sure they dare not . but what then ? do they not differ from one another ? do they not write , and preach , and rail against each other as much as any sectaries can do ? are there not factions of long continuance among them upon these differences ? where then lyes their vnity they boast off ? alas ! we speak like ignorant persons , and do not consider what artificial men we have to deal with ; who with some pretty tricks and slights of hand make all that which seems to us shattered and broken in pieces to appear sound and entire without the least crack or flaw in it . it will be worth the while to find out these arts , for i do not question but by a discreet managing them , they may serve us as well as them , and our church will have , ( though not so much splendour ) yet as much vnity as theirs . they tell us therefore that it is true they are not all of a mind , and it is not necessary to the unity of the church that they should be : but , they have the only way of composing differences ; and they do not differ in matters of faith from each other ; and their differences lye only in their schools , and do not disturb the peace of the church . this is the utmost i can find their best wits plead for the vnity of the roman church ; and if these be sufficient , i believe they and we will be proved to be as much at unity , as they are among themselves . . they say the vnity of the church doth not lye in actual agreement of the members of it in matters of doctrine ; but in having the best means to compose differences and to preserve consent ; which is , submission to the popes authority . so gregory de valentiâ explains the vnity of their church ; for actual consent , he grants , may be in other churches as much as theirs , and there is nothing singular or peculiar attributed to their church , supposing they were all of a mind , which it is plain they are not ; but therein , saith he , lyes the vnity of their church , that they all acknowledge one head in whose judgement they acquiesce : and therefore they have no more to do but to know what the pope determines . if this be all their unity , we have greater than they , for we have a more certain way of ending controversies than they have : which i prove by an argument like to one in great request among them , when they go about to perswade weak persons to their religion , viz. that it must needs be safer to be in that religion wherein both parties agree , a man may be saved ; than in that where one side denies a possibility of salvation ; so say i here , that must be a safer way for unity which both parties agree in to be infallible , than that which one side absolutely denyes to be so ; but both parties agree the scriptures to be infallible , and all protestants deny the pope to be infallible ; therefore ours is the more certain way for vnity . but this is not all , for it is far from being agreed among themselves that the pope is infallible ; it being utterly denyed by some among them , and the asserting it accounted heresie : as is evident in some late books written to that purpose in france and england : what excellent means of vnity then is this among them ; which it is accounted by some no less than heresie to assert ? § . . but supposing they should yield the pope that submission which they deny to be due to him , yet is his definition so much more certain way of ending controversies than the scriptures ? let them name one controversie that hath been ended in their church meerly by the popes decrees ; so as the opposite party hath declared , that they believed contrary to what they believed before on the account of the popes definition . we have many instances to the contrary , wherein controversies have been heightened and increased by their interposing , but none concluded by them . do they say the scripture can be no means of vnity , because of the various senses which have been put upon it ? and have they no wayes to evade the popes definitions ? yes , so many , that his authority in truth signifies nothing , any farther than they agree that the upholding it tends to their common interest . but when onces he comes to cross the interest of any party , if they do not in plain terms defie him , yet they find out more civil wayes of making his definitions of no force . either they say the decree was procured by fraud , and the pope made it by mis-information , which is the common way , or he did not define it as a matter of faith sitting in cathedrâ , or the sense of his definition is quite otherwise than their adversaries understand it ; or supposing that be the sense , the pope is never to be supposed to define any thing contrary to the scriptures and fathers and ancient canons : of all which it were no difficult task to give late and particular instances ; but no one who is acquainted with the history of that church can be ignorant of them , and the late proceedings in the point of the five propositions are a sufficient evidence of these things to any one who reads them . for when was there a fairer occasion given to the pope to shew his authority for preservation of the churches unity , than at that time when the matter of the five propositions was under debate at rome : the same controversie was now revived which had disturbed their church so often and so much before . in the time of clement . the heats were so great between the iesuits and dominicans , that the pope thought it necessary for the peace of the church to put an end to them , to that end he appointed congregations for several years to discuss those points , that he might come to a resolution in them . this pope at first was strangely prepossest by the arts of the iesuits against the dominicans , but sending for the general of the dominicans , he told him what sad apprehensions he had concerning the peace of the church , by reason of the disputes between the iesuits and them ; and therefore charges him that those of his order should no longer molest the iesuits about these things ; to whom he replyed , that he assured him with as great protestation as he was able , that it was no meer scholastical dispute between them , but it was the cause of faith that was concerned ; which he discoursed largely upon to the pope , and made such impressions upon him , that the dominicans verily believe , that had that pope lived to the vespers of pentecost that year he dyed in march , he had published a bull against the iesuits in presence of the colledge of cardinals , and created f. lemos cardinal . after his death the congregations were continued in the time of paul . but at last were broken up without any decision at all . if the popes determination be such an absolute instrument of peace in the church , it is the strangest thing in the world , it should be made so little use of in such cases where they all acknowledge it would be of infinite advantage to their church , to have an issue put to such troublesome controversies as these were . but they know well enough , that the popes authority is the more esteemed the less it is used , and that it hath alwayes been very hazardous to determine where there have been considerable parties , on both sides ; for fear the condemned party should renounce his authority , or speak plainer truths than they are willing to hear . and therefore it was well observed by mons. s. amour , that they are very jealeus at rome of maintaining the authority of the decrees which issue from thence , and that this consideration obliges the maker of them to look very well to the compliance and facility that may be expected in their execution before they pass any at all . which is a most certain argument they dare not trust the popes infallibility , nor all the promises they pretend christ hath made to their church ; but govern their affaires wholly by the rules of humane policy . and on this account when the heats brake forth in france about iansenism ; and both parties made application to the court of rome , the pope could never be prevailed with to suffer the main controversies to be touched , or any decree to pass about them , but at last condemned some ambiguous propositions as taken out of iansenius his book ; which both parties condemned according to their different senses , and they were left to dispute it out , which sense it was the pope meant them in . and therefore the iansenists advocate who was well versed in the practices of the court of rome , gave them the truest account of the intentions of that court in their affaire , which was , to delude both the one side and the other ; and that cardinal ginetti had told him that either nothing would be done , or if any thing that which would doe neither good not hurt . and therefore in stead of ending the controversies , the popes definition only produced more , viz. whether the propositions condemned were in iansenius or no ? whether the pope might not erre in matter of fact ? the iansenists affirming this , the iesuits denying it and charging each other with no less than heresie about it . for upon the iesuits asserting octob. . a.d. . that the pope hath the same infallibility that iesus christ hath , not only in questions of right but in matters of fact , and that thence those of their church are bound to believe with a divine faith , that the . condemned propositions are in iansenius : the iansenists publish a charge of heresie against the iesuits and such as was never broached in the church before : being not only a solitary error or simple heresie , but a whole source of errors , or rather an universal heresie which overthrows all religion . which they goe about at large to prove by shewing , that this builds mens faith on the word of man and not on the word of god , because it concerns a thing neither revealed nor attested by god , as to know whether propositions are really an authors of this last age ; and ( as he goes on ) to make the popes word equal with the word of god , is not only heresie but horrid impiety and a species of idolatry : for this is giving to man the honour due only to god : because such an entire submission of our mind and of all our intellectuals comprehended in the act of our faith is that adoration which we pay to the prime verity it self . and i dare now leave any one to judge , whether upon so late an experiment of the constitutions of two popes innocent . and alexander . in order to the ending so great a controversie as this was , it be not apparent , that the popes authority signifies no more to the ending controversies , than the parties who are concerned are willing that it should i. e. as far as they doe consent to obey them and no farther ? § . . but it may be said , that it is true there are differences among them about the popes power and infallibility , and therefore he may not be so fit to end controversies , but there is no dispute among them , about pope and council together , therefore in that case they are all agreed , that they ought to submit . these are fine things to be said , and appeare plausibly to those who doe not search into them ; but those that doe , will easily find this as ineffectual a remedy as the other . for if we examine but the ways used by the several parties among them to avoid the decisions of some councils against their particular opinions , we may see how little the decrees of councils can bind those who have no mind to be tyed up by them . either they say the decision depended on a matter of fact , which the council was not sufficiently informed in , and they believe a council may erre in a matter of fact , or else it did not proceed after the way of a council , or it was not general , or its decrees were not received by the catholick church , or though some were received yet not all , or however , the infallibility of a council is not absolute ; but supposing that it proceeds according to the constant tradition of the church , which unavoidably leaves the matter as much under debate as if the council had never meddled with it . but if they doe in earnest believe , that the pope and council can put an end to all controversies among them when they please , i would fain know why they have not done this hitherto ? is not unity desirable among them ? if not , why doe they boast of it ? if it be , why have they not obtained it , since they can so easily doe it ? what made them so extremely cautious in the council of trent of meddling with any thing that was in controversie among themselves ? or was it , that they were all so much of a mind that they had nothing to doe , but to condemn their enemies ? which was so far from being true , that there were very few things which came into bebate , that they were agreed in , and therefore they were put sometimes to strange shifts to find out general and ambiguous terms which might not displease the dissenters , and yet leave the disputes as great as ever . they could not agree so much as about the title of the council , many of the bishops were for adding to the title of the most holy council , representing the church vniversal , which was eagerly opposed by the italians , and with much adoe avoided by the legats ; being no small controversie about words , but of very great consequence about the power and authority of pope and council , if they had been suffered to goe on in it . but the pope hearing of this dispute at the beginning , sent word to the legats , not to broach any new difficulties in matter of faith , nor to determine any of the things controversed among catholicks , and to proceed slowly in the reformation . excellent instructions for the advancement of peace and holiness ! whoever will for that end peruse that incomparable history of the council , will find how high the controversies among themselves were between the bishops and the regulars about priviledges , between the dominicans and francise●ins in many weighty points , between the italian bishops and others about residence and the extent of episcopal power , between the divines in most of the matters of doctrine , as might easily be shewed at large , if i loved the pains of transcribing ; but i had rather referre the reader to that excellent history it self . but i only renew my demand , why must no controversies among catholicks be ended in the council ? could they be better decided any where else ? if so , then the council is not the best means of vnity ; if not , then it seems there is no necessity of ending controversies among them , but they have vnity enough without it . and in truth , it is interest and not vnity they look after , all such who hold opinions contrary to their interest must be proceeded against and condemned ; but for others , let them quarrel and dispute as long as they will , they let them alone if they touch not the popes authority , nor any of the gainful opinions and practices which are allowed among them . and supposing their interest be kept up , which the inquisition is designed for , the court of rome is as great a friend to toleration as may be , only what others call different perswasions , they call school points , and what others call divisions , they call disputes ; the case is the same with their church and others , only they have softer names for the differences among themselves , and think none bad enough for those who cast off the popes authority and plead for a reformation . here then lyes the profound mystrey of their vnity , that they are all agreed against us , though not among themselves ; and are not we so against them too ? may not we plead for the vnity , that they have on the same grounds ? we are all agreed against popery , as much as they are against protestants ; only we have some scholastick disputes among us about indifferent things , and the episcopal authority , as they have ; we have some zealous dominicans , and busie and factious men such as the iesuits among them are ; but setting aside these disputes we are admirably well agreed , just as they are in the roman church . § . . . they say , they doe not differ in matters of faith . but this is as true as the other ; for are they agreed in matters of faith who charge one another with heresie ? as we have already seen that they doe . but if they mean that they doe not differ in matters of faith , because those only are matters of faith which they are agreed in ; they were as good say , they are agreed in the things they doe not differ about : for the parties which differ doe believe the things in difference to be matters of faith ; and therefore they think they differ from one another in matter of faith . but they are not agreed what it is which makes a thing to be a matter of faith ; and therefore no one can pronounce that their differences are not about matters of faith ; for what one may think not to be de fide , others may believe that it is ; we see the popes personal infallibility is become a catholick doctrine among the iesuits , and declared to be plain heresie by their adversaries . the deliverance of souls from purgatory by the prayers of the living is generally accounted a matter of faith in the roman church ; but we know those in it who deny it , and say it was a novel opinion introduced by gregory . against the consent of antiquity . it is a matter of faith , say the dominicans and iansenists to attribute to god alone the praise of converting grace , and that grace efficacious by it self , was the doctrine of fathers and councils and the catholick church ; and is it not then a matter of faith in their opinion , wherein the iesuits and they differ from each other ? to which purpose it was well said by the author of a book printed at paris a. d. . containing essayes and reflections on the state of religion , that because of the controversies between the iansenists and the iesuits , it might with more reason be affirmed now than in the time of arrianism it self , that the whole church seems to become heretical . for admitting , saith he , what is most certain that the church hath decreed calvinism , pelagianism and semipelagianism to be heresies , and that the doctors are those who sit in the chair to be consulted withall upon points of religion , all catholicks are reduced to a most strange perplexity . for if a man shall address himself to those of the iansenian party , they will tell him that those who are termed molinists are pelagians or at least semi-pelagians , and on the other side the molinists will bear him down that their adversaries are calvinists or else novatians . now all the doctors of the catholick church ( a very few excepted ) are either of the one or the other party . i leave you then to consider to what prodigious streights mens minds are reduced , since this is held as a general maxime , that whosoever fails in one point of faith , fails in all . it is a matter of faith , say the dominicans , that all persons , christ only excepted , were born in sin ; and therefore the contenders for the immaculate conception must in their judgment differ in a point of faith from them . but if this distinction should be allowed to preserve the unity of their church , why shall it not as well cure the divisions of ours . the most considerable in all respects of the dissenters from the church of england , declare that they agree with us in all the articles of doctrine required by our church ; will this be enough in their opinion to make us at unity with each other ? if not , let them not plead the same thing for themselves which they will not allow to us . i cannot understand that the controversies about ceremonies ( considered in themselves ) among us , are of any greater weight , than the disputes among the fryars concerning their habits have been ; and yet this controversie only about the size of their hoods lasted in one order almost an age together , and was managed with as great a heat and animosity , as ever these have been among us , and was with very much adoe laid asleep for a time by the endeavours of . popes successively . but if this signifies nothing to unity , to say , that the matters are not great about which the controversies are , if the disturbances be great which are caused by them , that will reflect more sharply on their church than on ours , which hath so many differences which they account not to be about any matters of faith . but if these differences in point of doctrine among them prove to be none in matters of faith , it would be no difficult task upon the same grounds to shew that they have no reason to quarrel with us for breaking the unity of their church , because then we may differ from them as little in matters of faith , as they doe from one another . this i need not take upon me to shew at large , because i find it already done to my hand by f. davenport , al. sancta clara in his paraphrastical exposition of the . articles of our church : about half of them he acknowledges to be catholick , as they are without any further explication . the first he meets with difficulty in is that , about the number of canonical books point blank against the council of trent , but he acknowledges that cajetan and franciscus mirandula fully agree with our church in it , who quote hierom , ruffinus , antoninus , and lyra of the same opinion , as they might have done many others ; but because our church doth not cast them wholly out of the canon , he dares not say it is guilty of heresie simply ; and the rather because waldensis and driedo do hold that it is only in the power of the whole church successively from the apostles , to declare what books are canonical and what not . for the . article about justification , he saith the controversie is only about words , because we are agreed that god alone is the efficient cause of justification , and that christ and his passion are the meritorious cause of it ; and the only question is about the formal cause , which our church doth not attribute to the act of faith as he proves by the book of homilies . but only makes it a condition of our being justified , and they believe that by faith we obtain our righteousness by christ ; so that he can find no difference between them and us in that point . he saith , the controversie about merit may be soon ended according to the doctrine of our church , for they deny as well as we article . . that any works done before the grace of christ , and inspiration of his spirit , can merit any thing , and when we say , article . that good works which follow justification , are pleasing and acceptable to god in christ ; if by that we mean , that they are accepted by christ in order to a reward , by vertue of the promise of god through christ , that is all the sense of merit , which he or the school of scotus contends for . for works of supererogation article . he saith our church condemns them upon that ground , that men are said to do more by them than of duty they are bounden to do , which being generally understood they condemn , he saith , as well as we ; because we can doe no good works which upon the account of our natural obligation we are not bound to perform , though by particular precept we are not bound to them . in the article where our church saith , that the church of rome hath erred not only in their living and manner of ceremonies , but also in matters of faith ; he distinguisheth the particular church of rome from the catholick church , which is frequently understood by that name , and he saith it is only a matter of faith to believe , that the catholick church hath not erred , and not that the particular church of rome hath not . in the . article our church declares , that the church ought neither to decree any thing against holy writ , so besides the same it ought not to enforce any thing to be believed of necessity to salvation ; this he interprets of what is neither actually nor potentially in the scriptures , neither in terms nor by consequence ; and so he thinks it orthodox , and not against traditions . article . wherein our church determins expresly against the infalibility of general councils , he understands it only of things , that are not necessary to faith or manners ; which he saith is the common opinion among them . the hardest article one would think to bring us off in , was the . viz. that the romish doctrine concerning purgatory , pardons , worshipping and adoration as well of images as of reliques , and also invocation of saints is a fond thing , vainly invented and grounded upon no warranty of scripture . but we need not despaire as long as one bred up in the schools of scotus designes our rescue ; he confesses it to be a difficult adventure , but what will not subtilty and kindness doe together ? he observes very cunningly , that these doctrines are not condemned absolutely and in themselves , but only the romish doctrine about them ; and therein we are not to consider what the church of rome doth teach , but what we apprehend they teach , or what we judge of their doctrine , i. e. that they invocate saints as they doe god himself , that purgatory destroys the cross of christ , and warms the popes kitchin ; that pardons are the popes bills of exchange , whereby he discharges the debts of what sinners he pleases ; that they give proper divine worship to images and reliques ; all which , he saith , are impious doctrines , and we doe well to condemn them . so that it is not want of faith , but want of wit , this good man condemns us for ; which if we attain to any competent measure of whereby to understand their doctrine , there is nothing but absolute peace and harmony between us . this grand difficulty being thus happily removed , all the rest is done with a wet finger : for what though our church , art. . saith , that it is a thing plainly repugnant to the word of god , and the custome of the primitive church to have publick prayer in the church , or to minister the sacraments in a tongue not understood of the people . yet what can hinder a scotist from understanding by the scripture , not the doctrine or command of it , but the delivery of it , viz. that the scripture was written in a known tongue ? nay he proves that our church is for praying in latin by this article , because that either is a known tongue or ought to be so , it being publickly lickly taught every where : and if it be not understood , he saith , it is not per se but per accidens that it is so ; i suppose he means the latin tongue is not to blame that the people do not understand it ; but they that they learned their lessons no better at school . but what is to be said , for women who do not think themselves bound to go to school to learn latin ? he answers very plainly , that s. paul never meant them , for he speaks of those who were to say amen at the prayers , but both s. paul. and the canon law , he tells us , forbid women to speak in the church . the case is then clear , s. paul. never regarded what language the women used ; and it was no great matter whether they understood their prayers or not . but what is to be said to the council of trent , which pronounces an anathema to those who say , that prayers are to be said only in a known tongue ? this doth not touch our church at all he thinks , because in some colledges the prayers are said in latin : but although that be a known tongue there , it is no matter , as long as the council of trent hath put in the word only , that clears our church sufficiently . besides the council of trent speaks expresly of the masse , which our article doth not mention , but only publick prayers : and the council of trent speaks of those who condemns it as contrary to the institution of christ , but our church only condemns it as contrary to the institution of the apostle ; but all the commands of the apostles are not the commands of christ , therefore our church declares nothing against faith in this article . are not we infinitely obliged to a man that uses so much subtlety to defend our church from errrour in faith ? but that which is most considerable is , what he cites from canus , that it is no heresie to condemn a custome or law of the church , if it be not of something necessary to salvation ; especially if it be a custome introduced since the apostles times , as most certainly this was . for the five sacraments rejected by our church , art. . he saith , they are not absolutely rejected as sacraments , but as sacraments of the same nature with baptism and the lords supper , which they yield to . for transubstantiation , which is utterly denyed by our church , art. . he very subtilly interprets it of a carnal presence of christs body , which he grants to be repugnant to scripture , and to destroy the nature of a sacrament , but they do believe christs body to be present after the manner of a spirit ; and so our church doth not condemn theirs . as to communion in both kinds , asserted by our church , art. . he saith , it is not condemned by the council of trent therein , which only anathematizes those who make it necessary to salvation , which our church mentions not : and however we condemn communion in one kind , canus proves him not to be guilty of heresie , who should say that the church hath erred therein . the article condemns the sacrifice of the masse , i.e. saith he , independently on the sacrifice of the crosse , which is propitiatory of it self , and the other only by vertue of it . the . of the lawfulness of priests marriage , he understands of the law of god ; in respect of which it is the most common opinion among them , he saith , that it is lawful . the . about traditions , he interprets of those which are not doctrinal . the book of homilies approved art. . he understands as they do books approved by their church , not of every sentence contained therein , but the substance of the doctrine ; and he grants there are many good things contained therein . for the . of consecration of bishops and ministers , he proves from vasquez , conink , arcudius , and innocent . that our church hath all the essentials of ordination required in scripture : and if the difference of form of words did null our ordinations , it would do those of the greek church too . the last article he examins is , art. . of the civil magistrates power in opposition to the popes authority ; and he grants , that the king may be allowed a supermacy , i.e. such as may not be taken away by any one as his superiour : and that by custome , a sufficient right accrues to him over all ecclesiastical causes : and that by divine and natural right he hath jurisdiction over all ecclesiastical persons , so far as the publick good is concerned . and withall he grants that we yield no spiritual jurisdiction to the king , and no more than is contended for by the french , and the parliament of paris . that part which denyes the popes jurisdiction in england , he saith , may be understood of the popes challenging england to be a fee of the roman see ; but if it be otherwise understood , he makes use of many scholastick distinctions of actus signatus & exercitus , &c. the sense of which is , that it is in some cases lawful for a temporal prince to withdraw his obedience from the pope ; but leaves it to be discussed whether he had sufficient reason for doing it . but there can be no heresie in matter of fact : it remains then according to the sense put upon our articles by him with the help of his scholastick subtleties , we differ no more from them in points of faith , than they do from one another . for such kind of distinctions and senses are they forced to use , and put upon each others opinions , to excuse them from disagreeing in articles of faith ; and there is no reason that we should not enjoy the benefit of them as well as they : so that either they must be guilty of differing in matters of faith , or we are not . § . . . they plead , that their differences are only confined to their schools , and do not disturb the peace of the church . but there is as little truth in this , as there is vnity in their church : as plainly appears by what hath been said already . was the controversie about the popes temporal power confined to the schools ? did not that make for several ages as great disturbances in the church , as were ever known in it upon any quarrel of religion ? were the controversies between the bishops and the monks confined to their schools , about the extent of the episcopal jurisdiction in former times , or in the renewing of this hierarchical warr ( as one of the iansenists calls it ) in france ? but these things are at large discovered already ; i shall only adde one thing more , which seems more like a dispute of the schools between the several orders among them about the immaculate conception ; and it will easily appear that whereever that dispute began , it did not rest in the schools , if we consider the tumults and disturbances which have been made only on the account of it . this controversie began in the schools about the beginning of the century , when scotus set up for a new sect in opposition to thomas aquinas , and among other points of controversie , he made choice of this to distinguish his followers by ; but proposed it himself very timerously , as appears by his resolution of it in his book on the sentences ; however his followers boast , that in this blessed quarrel he was sent for from oxford to paris , from paris to cologne to overthrow all adversaries , and that he did great wonders every where . but however this were , there were some not long after him , who boldly asserted what he doubtfully proposed , of whom franciscus mayronis is accounted the first ; after him petrus aureolus , occam and the whole order of franciscans . but the great strength of this opinion lay not in the wit and subtilty of the defenders of it , nor in any arguments from scripture or antiquity , but in that which they called the piety of it , i. e. that it tended to advance the honour of the b. virgin. for after the worship of her came to be so publick and solemn in their church , i do not in the least wonder , that they were willing to believe her to be without sin . i much rather admire they do not believe all their canonized saints to have been so too ; and i am sure the same reasons will hold for them all . but this opinion by degrees obtaining among the people , it grew scandalous for any man to oppose it . so walsingham saith towards the latter end of this century , the dominicans preaching the contrary opinion against the command , first of the bishops in france , and then of the king and nobles ; they were out-lawed by the king , and absolutely forbid to go out of their own convents for fear of seducing the people : and not only so , but to receive any one more into their order , that so the whole order might in a little time be extinguished . the occasion of this persecution arose from a disturbance which happened in paris upon this controversie , one ioh. de montesono publickly read against the immaculate conception , at which so great offence was taken , that he was convented before the faculty of sorbonne , but he declared that he had done nothing but by advice of the chief of his order , and that he would defend what he had said to death . his propositions were condemned by the faculty and the bishop of paris , upon which he appeals to the pope , and goes to avignon to clem. . where the whole order of dominicans appears for him , and the vniversity against him by their deputies of whom pet. de alliaco was the chief . the assertions which he was condemned for , relating to this matter were these following , as they are written in a manuscript of petr. de alliaco from which they are published by the late author of the history of the vniversity of paris . . to assert any thing to be true which is against scripture , is most expresly contrary to faith . this is condemned as false and injurious to the saints and doctors . . that all persons , christ only excepted , have not derived original sin from adam , is expresly against faith . this is condemned as false , scandalous , presumptuous , and offensive to pious ears . which he affirms particularly of the b. virgin , and is in the same terms condemned . . it is as much against scripture to exempt any one person from original sin , besides christ , as to exempt ten . . it is more against scripture , that the b.v. was not conceived in original sin , than to say that she was both in heaven and on earth from the first instant of her conception or sanctification . . that no exception ought to be allowed in explication of scripture , but what the scripture it self makes . all which are condemned as the former . against these censures he appeals to the pope , because therein the doctrine of st. thomas which is approved by the church is condemned , and that it was only in the popes power to determine any thing in these points . upon this the vniversity publishes an apologetical epistle , wherein they declare that they will rather suffer any thing , than endure heresie to spring up among them , and vindicate their own authority in their censures ; and earnestly beg the assistance of all the bishops and clergy in their cause , and their care to suppress such dangerous doctrines ; this was dated febr. . a. d. . but being cited to avignon , thither they send the deputies of the vniversity , where this cause was debated with great zeal and earnestness about a years time ; and at last the vniversities censure was confirmed , and ioh. de montesono fled privately into spain . but the dominicans did not for all this give over preaching the same doctrine , upon which a grievous perfecution was raised against them as appears not only by the testimony of walsingham , but of the continuer of martinus polonus , who saith , that insurrection were every where made against them , and many of them were imprisoned , and the people denyed them alms and oblations , and they were forbidden to preach , or read lectures , or bear confessions , in so much that they were made , he saith , the scorn and contempt of the people : and this storm lasted many years , and there was none to help them : because their enemies believed in persecuting them , they did honour to the b. virgin. nay the kings confessour the bishop of eureux was forced to recant for holding with the dominicans , and to declare that their opinions were false and against faith ; and they made him upon his knees beg the king that he would write to the king of arragon and the pope , that they would cause ioh. de montesono to be sent prisoner to paris , there to receive condigne punishment . the next year , a. d. . they made adam de soissons , prior of a dominican convent publickly recant the same doctrine before the vniversity ; and stephen gontier was sent prisoner to paris by the bishop of auxerre as suspected of heresie , because he joyned with his brethren in the appeal to the pope : and another called iohannes ade was forced to recant four times for saying that he favoured the opinions of ioh. de montesono . but these troubles were not confined only to france , for not long after , a. d. . iohn king of arragon published a proclamation that no one under pain of banishment should preach or dispute against the immaculate conception : and in valenci● one moses monerus was banished by ferdinand on that account , because the tumults could not be appeased without it . lucas waddingus in his history of the embassy about the immaculate conception , gives a short account of the scandals that have happened by the tumults which have risen in spain and elsewhere on this controversie , which he dares not relate at large , he saith , because of the greatness of them : such as happened in the kingdom of valencia , a. d. . in the kingdom of aragon , a. d. . in barcelona , a. d. . and . and . in catalonia , a. d. . and . in all which drawn from the publick records , he saith , the princes were forced to use their utmost power to repress them for the present , and prevent them for the future : so in the kingdom of murcia , a. d. . in boetica or andaluzia , a. d. . in castile , a. d. . the like scandals he mentions in germany and italy on the same account , and withall he saith , that these continued notwithstanding all the endeavours of popes , princes , bishops and vniversities ; but the tumults , he saith , that happened of later years in spain , were incredibly turbulent and scandalous , and drawn from the authentick registers which were sent by the several cities to the king , and by the king to the pope , which were so great , that those alone were enough to move the pope to make a definition in this controversie . especially considering that the same scandals had continued for years among them , and did continue still , notwithstanding paul . constitution . which is no wonder at all , considering what the bishop of malaga reports , that the iesuits perswade the people to defend the immaculate conception with sword and fire , and with their blood . and i now only desire to know whether these be meer disputes of the schools among them o● no , and whether they have not produced as great disorders and tumults among the people , as controversies about points of faith are wont to do ? so that upon the whole matter , whether we respect the peace of the world , or factious disputes in religion , i see no advantage at all the church of rome hath above others ; and therefore reading the scriptures can be no cause of divisions among us ; since they have been so many and great among those , who have most prudentially dispensed , or rather forbidden it : which was the thing i intended to prove . chap. vi. an answer to the remainder of the reply . the mis-interpreting scripture doth not hinder its being a rule of faith . of the superstitious observations of the roman church . of indulgences ; the practice of them in what time begun , on what occasion , and in what terms granted . of the indulgences in iubilees , in the churches at rome , and upon saying some prayers . instances of them produced . what opinion hath been had of indulgences in the church of rome : some confess they have no foundation in scripture , or antiquity , others that they are pious frauds : the miserable shifts the defenders of indulgences were put to : plain evidences of their fraud from the disputes of the schools about them . the treasure of the church invented by aquinas and on what occasion . the wickedness of men increased by indulgences acknowledged by their own writers : and therefore condemned by many of that church . of bellarmins prudent christians opinion of them . indulgences no meer relaxations of canonical penance . the great absurdity of the doctrine of the churches treasure on which indulgences are founded , at large manifested . the tendency of them to destroy devotion proved by experience , and the nature of the doctrine . of communion in one kind ; no devotion in opposing an institution of christ. of the popes power of dispensing contrary to the law of god in oaths and marriages . the ill consequence of asserting marriage in a priest to be worse than fornication , as it is in the church of rome . of the uncertainty of faith therein . how far revelation to be believed against sense . the arguments to prove the uncertainty of their faith defended . the case of a revolter and a bred papist compared as to salvation : and the greater danger of one than the other proved . the motives of the roman church considered ; those laid down by bishop taylor fully answered by himself . an account of the faith of protestants laid down in the way of principles : wherein the grounds and nature of our certainty of faith are cleared . and from the whole concluded , that there can be no reasonable cause to forsake the communion of the church of england and to embrace that of the church of rome . § . . having thus far vindicated the scriptures from being the cause ( by being read among us ) of all the sects and fanaticisms which have been in england , i now return to the consideration of the remainder of his reply . and one thing still remains to be cleared concerning the scripture , which is , whether it can be a most certain rule of faith and life , since among protestants it is left to the private interpretation of every fanciful spirit : which is as much as to ask , whether any thing can be a rule , which may be mis-understood by those who are to be guided by it ? or , whether it be fit the people should know the laws they are to be governed by , because it is a dangerous thing to mis-interpret laws , and none are so apt to do it as the common people ? i dare say , st. augustin never thought that heresies arising from mis-understanding scriptures , were a sufficient argument against their being a rule of faith , or being read by the people , as appears by his discoursing to them in the place quoted by him . for then he must have said to them to this purpose , good people , ye perceive from whence heresies spring , therefore as you would preserve your soundness in the faith , abstain from reading the scriptures , or looking on them as your rule ; mind the traditions of the church , but trust not your selves with the reading what god himself caused to be writ : it cannot be denyed that the scriptures have far greater excellency in them than any other writings in the world ; but you ought to consider the best and most useful things are the most dangerous when abused . what is more necessary to the life of man than eating and drinking ; yet where lyes intemperance and the danger of surfetting , but in the use of these ? what keeps men more in their wits than sleeping , yet when are men so lyable to have their throats cut as in the use of that ? what more pleasant to the eyes than to see the sun , yet what is there so like to put them out as to stare too long upon him ? therefore since the most necessary and useful things are most dangerous when they are abused ; my advice must be that ye forbear eating , sleeping and seeing , for fear of being surfetted , murdred or losing your sight ; which you know to be very bad things . i cannot deny but that the scriptures are called the bread of life , the food of our souls , the light of our eyes , the guide of our wayes ; yet since there may be so much danger in the use of food , of light , and of a guide , it is best for you to abstain from them . would any man have argued like st. augustin that should talk at this rate ? yet this must have been his way of arguing , if his meaning had been to have kept the people from reading the scriptures , because heresies arise from mis-understanding them . but all that he inferrs from thence , is what became a wise man to say , viz. that they should be cautious in affirming what they did not understand ; and that hanc tenentes regulam sanitatis , holding this still as our rule of soundness in the faith , with great humility ; what we are able to understand , according to the faith we have received , we ought to rejoyce in it as our food , what we cannot , we ought not presently to doubt of , but take time to understand it ; and though we know it not at present , we ought not to question it to be good and true : and afterwards saith , that was his own case as well as theirs . what , s. augustine a guide and father of the church put himself equal with the people in reading and understanding scriptures ! in which we not only see his humility , but how far he was from thinking , that this argument would any more exclude the people from reading the scriptures than the great doctors of the church . for i pray , were they the common people who first broached heresies in the christian church ? were arius , nestorius , macedonius , eutyches , or the great abettors of their doctrines , any of the vulgar ? if this argument then holds at all , it must hold especially against men of parts and learning , that have any place in the church , for they are much more in danger of spreading heresies by mis-interpreting scriptures than any others are . but among protestants , he saith , scripture is left to the fanciful interpretation of every private spirit . if he speaks of our church he knows the contrary , and that we profess to follow the unanimous consent of the primitive fathers as much as they , and embrace the doctrine of the four general councils . but if there have been some among us , who have followed their own fancies in interpreting scripture ; we can no more help that , than they can do in theirs ; and i dare undertake to make good , that there have never been more absurd , ridiculous , and fanciful interpretations of scripture , than ( not the common people , but ) the heads of their church have made , and other persons in greatest reputation among them . which though too large a task for this present design , may ere long be the subject of another . for the authority of henry . in the testimony produced from him , when they yield to it in the point of supremacy ; we may do it in the six articles or other points of popery which he held to the last . but we think it an advantage to our cause in the matter of supremacy , that they who were papists , in other points as well as this against reading the scriptures , yet contended so earnestly against the popes authority as henry . and stephen gardiner , bonner , and the rest did . doth he imagine that henry . is owned by us to be head of our church as the pope is with them , so as to think him infallible ? he would be head of the popish church in england in spight of the pope , but he never pretended to be head of the reformation , any farther than the supremacy went ; and if they will not believe him , when he was influenced , as they think , by cranmer , neither are we to be tyed to his opinion when he was guided by stephen gardiner or any other , who were not greater enemies to cranmer than to the reformation . § . . the next thing , wherein i said the sincerity of devotion is much obstructed in their church was by the multitude of superstitious observations never used in the primitive church , as i said i was ready to defend ; to this , his answer is very short . . that i should have said to prove ; but so weak was i as to think the affirmative was to be proved and the negative defended . . he denyes any such to be used in their church . i desire then to know his opinion of baptizing bells , with god-fathers and god-mothers holding the rope in their hands , being buried in a monks habit , pilgrimages to images of saints , sprinkling holy water , spittle and salt in baptisme , their rites of exorcism , agnus dei's , the pageantry of the passion-week , the carrying about of the host , the numbering of ave marias and pater nosters to make rosaries and psalters of the b. virgin , the burning tapers at noon day particularly on candlemas day with great devotion , the incensing of images , with many others which might be mention'd : and if he can vindicate these from superstition , it will be no hard task to vindicate the heathens in the ceremonies of their devotion ; and to prove that there can be no such thing as superstition in the world . § . . i now come to the gross abuse of people in pardons and indulgences , by which i said the sincerity of devotion was much obstructed among them : he tells me , as an eye-witness , that there is great devotion caused by them in catholick countries ; there being no indulgence ordinarily granted , but enjoyns him that will avail himself of it to confess his sins , to receive the sacraments , to pray , fast and give alms , all which duties are with great devotion , he saith , performed by catholick people , which without the incitement of an indulgence had possibly been left undone . i will not be so troublesome to enquire what sincerity of devotion that was , he was an eye-witness of , which was caused by indulgences , nor what sort of persons they were who were thus devout at receiving them . i think it will be sufficient for my purpose to prove , that no persons in the world , who understand what indulgences mean , in the church of rome , can be excited to any devotion by them ; but that on the contrary they tend exceedingly to the obstructing of it : which i shall doe by shewing , that either they are great and notorious cheats , if that be not meant by them which is expressed in them ; or if it be , that nothing could be invented that tends , more to obstructing their own way of devotion than these doe . . that they are great and notorious cheats , if that be not meant by them which is expressed in them . for which we are to understand first what hath been expressed in their indulgences . . what opinion those of their own church have had concerning them . § . . . what hath been expressed in their indulgences ; the eldest indulgences we meet with are those which were made by the popes , to such who undertook their quarrels against their enemies ; and the first of this kind i can meet with is , that of anselm bishop of luca legat of gregory . which he gave to those of his party who would fight against the emperour henry . which baronius relates from his poenitentiary , in which was promised remission of all their sins to such who would venture their lives in that holy war. and gregorius . himself in an epistle to the monks of marscilles who stuck close to him promised an indulgence of all their sins . the like indulgence with remission of all their sins , was granted to those who would fight against the saracens in africa by victor , who succeeded gregorius . ; after him followed vrban . who granted an indulgence to all who would goe in the war to the holy land , of all their sins , and as gul. tyrius saith , expressely mention'd those which the scripture saith , doe exclude from the kingdom of god , as murder , theft , &c. and not only absolved them from all the penances they deserved by their sins , but bid them not doubt of an eternal reward after death , as malmsbury saith ; the like is attested by ordericus vitalis in whose younger days this expedition began : upon which he saith , all the thieves , pyrats , and other rogues came in great numbers and listed themselves , having made confession of their sins ; and if we believe s. bernard , there were very few but such among them ; which he rejoyceth very much in : and saith , there was a double cause of joy in it , both that they left the countries where they were before , and now went upon such an enterprise which would carry them to heaven . this way of indulgences being thus introduced , was made use of afterwards upon the like occasions by callictus . a. d. . by eugenius . a. d. . by clem. . a. d. . and others after them , who all promised the same indulgences that vrban . had given . and it is well observed by morinus , that these indulgences cannot be understood of a meer relaxation of canonical penances ; because such a remission of all sins is granted , upon which eternal life followes , and therefore must respect god and not barely the church : and because absolution was to be given upon them , which saith he , according to the discipline then in the church ought not to be given , but till the canonical penance had been gone through , or at least the greatest part of it . but therein he is very much mistaken , when he saith , that the popes never granted these plenary indulgences , but only to encourage an expedition to the holy land : for gelasius . a. d. . granted the same to the christian souldiers at the siege of saragoza , as appears by the bull it self in baronius . honorius . in the quarrel he had with roger of sicily gave the same to all , who having confessed their sins should dye in the war against him ; but , if they chanced to escape with their lives , but half their sins were pardoned . alexander . gave to his friends at ancona who should visit the . churches and their own cathedral all lent fasting , as full an indulgence as if they went to hierusalem ; and besides this every first sunday in the month as great an indulgence , ( i. e. i suppose for as many days ) as a man could take up sands in both hands . this baronius thinks a little too much : and therefore rejects it as fabulous , because the same pope in an indulgence given to the church of ferrara grants but a year of criminals and a seventh part of venials ; but he doth not consider that the case of ancona was peculiar , because of the great friendship that city had shewn to the pope in his distress , and this indulgence was transcribed from a very ancient manuscript , and better attested than many other things which he never disputes . but if it be a cheat let it pass for one ; and it is no great matter to me whether it were a cheat of the popes , or the church of ancona . but he doth not at all question the indulgence granted by the same pope to those who would take up arms against the albigenses , which to those who dye in that cause , is not only pardon of all their sins , but an eternal reward : but such that refused to goe , no less than excommunication is denounced against them . and honorius . in the same cause , granted an indulgence in the same terms as to those who went to the holy land : and gregorius . to all who should take his part against the emperour frederic . which bzovius confesseth to be usual with the popes , to give to those who would fight against saracens , hereticks or any other enemies of theirs . this practice of indulgences being once taken up was found too beneficial to be ever let fall again ; and private bishops began to make great use of it , not in such a manner as the popes , but they were unwilling not to have as great a share as they could get in it ; thence they began to publish indulgences to those who would give money towards the building or repairing churches or other publick works , for this they promised them a pardon of the . or . or . part of their sins according as their bounty deserved . this was first begun by gelasius . for the building of the church of saragoza a. d. . and was followed by other bishops ; in so much that morinus is of opinion , that mauricius bishop of paris built the great church of nostredame there in that manner ; and he saith , he can find no ground for this practice of indulgences before the . century ; and answers bellarmins arguments for a greater antiquity of them , and proves all his testimonies from gregories stations , ludgerus his epistle , and sergius his indulgence in the church of s. martin at rome produced by baronius to be meer impostures . but the bishops of rome , finding how beneficial these indulgences were , soon resolved to keep the keys of this treasury of the church in their own hands ; and therefore quickly abridged other bishops of this power ; and made great complaint that by the indiscreet use of indulgences by the bishops , the keys of the church were contemned and discipline lost ; so innocent . in the council of lateran , can . . ; and therefore decrees that in the dedication of a church , though where there were several bishops together , they should not grant any indulgence above a year , nor any single bishop above . days . but we are not to imagine that the popes ever intended to tye their own hands by these canons ; but they were too wise to let others have the managing of so rich a stock as that of the church was ; which would bring in so great a harvest from the sins of the people . thence boniface . first instituted the year of iubilee a. d. , and in his bull published for that end , grants not only a plenary , and larger but most plenary remission of sins to them that ( if romans for , if strangers for . days in that year ) should visit the churches of the apostles . this was brought afterwards by clem. . to every . years , and since , to . or as often as his holines please : but in all of them a most plenary remission of sins is granted . it were worth the while to understand the difference between a plenary , larger and most plenary indulgence : since bellarmin tells us , that a plenary indulgence takes away all the punishment due to sin . but these were the fittest terms to let the people know they should have as much for their money as was to be had , and what could they desire more ? and although bellarmin abhorres the name of selling indulgences , yet it comes all to one , the popes gives indulgences and they give money ; or they doe it not by way of purchase but by way of alms : but commend me to the plain honesty of boniface . who being not satisfied with the oblations at rome , sent abroad his iubilees to colen , magdeburg , and other cities , but always sent his collectors to take his share of the money that was gathered , and inserted in them that clause porrigentibus manus adjutrices , which in plain english , is to those who would give money for them : without which no indulgence was to be had , as gobelinus persona saith . who likewise addes this remarkable passage , that the preachers of the indulgences told the people to encourage them to deale for them , that they were not only à poená but à culpâ too , i.e. not meerely from the temporal punishment of sin , but from the fault it self which deserved eternal ; this made the people look into them , and not finding those terms but only a most plenary remission , they were unsatisfied because they were told that the fault could be forgiven by god alone ; but if they could but once find that the pope would undertake to clear all scores with god for them , they did not doubt but they would be worth their money . whereupon he saith those very terms were put into them : then the wiser men thought these were counterfeit and made only by the pardon-mongers ; but upon further enquiry they found it otherwise . how far this trade of indulgences was improved afterwards in the time of alexander . and leo . the reformation which began upon occasion of them , will be a lasting monument which was the greatest good the world ever received by them . § . . but we are not to think , since indulgences are such great kindnesses to the souls of men , that they should be only reserved for years of iubilee ; for what a hard case may they be in who should chance to dy but the year before ? therefore the popes ( those tender fathers of the church ) have granted very comfortable ones to many particular places , and for the doing some good actions , that no one need be in any great perplexity for want of them . other places it is probable a man may goe to heaven assoon from as rome , but there is none like that for escaping purgatory ; if a man confess his sins and but stumble into one of the . churches , it is a hard case if he doth not escape at least for one thousand years . i need not reckon up what vast pardons are to be had there at easie rates ; since they have been so kind at rome to publish a catalogue of them in several books ; an extract out of which is very lately set forth in our own language . those who have gone about to compute them , have found that indulgences for a million of years are to be had at rome on no hard terms : bellarmin would seem to deny these pardons for so many years , as far as he durst , as though they were not delivered by authentick writers ; but i desire no more than what cnuphrius hath transcribed , from the archives of the churches themselves ; and we may judge of the rest by what caesar rasponi a canon of the lateran church and a present cardinal hath written lately of that one church , in a book dedicated to alexander . he tells us therefore there is so vast a bank of the treasure of the church laid up there , that no one need goe any further to get full pardon of all his sins ; and that it is impossible for any one to reckon up the number of the benefits to be had there by it . in the feast of the dedication of that church , at the first throw , if a man be well confessed before , he gets if he be a roman a pardon of a . years , if a tuscan ; but if he comes from beyond sea . years ; this is well for the first time . the like lottery is again at that church on c●ena domini . but boniface . would never stand indenting with men for number of years , but declares , if men will come either for devotion or pilgrimage , ( no matter which ) he shall be clear from all sin : and what would a man have more ? but besides this , there are other particular seasons of opening this treasury , and then one may take out as much as they can wish for : as when the image of our saviour is shewn , all that come thither , have their sins pardoned infallibly : and many other days in the year , which the author very punctually reckons up , and are so many that a canon of that church may dispose of some thousands of years , nay plenary remissions , and yet escape purgatory at last himself . but besides what belongs to the church it self , there is a little oratory or chapple belonging to it called the holy of holies , where it is impossible for any man to reckon up the number of indulgences granted to it . these vast numbers of years then are no fiction of pardon-mongers , as bellarmin is sometimes ready to say ; unless he will have the popes called by that name , or charge the holy churches at rome with so gross impostures . § . . but suppose it should be a mans fortune never to see rome ( as it hath many a good mans ) must he be content to lye and rot in purgatory , or trust only to the kindness of his friends ? no , we that live at this distance , have some comfort left : there are sonne good prayers appointed for us to use , which will help us at a need ; or else the book of the houres of the b. virgin secundunm usum sarum is strangely mistaken ; but herein i am likewise prevented by the autho●● of the preface lately mention'd ; but my edition being elder than either of those mention'd by him seems to have something peculiar to it or at last omitted by him . as when it saith of the prayer obsecro te domina sancta maria , &c. tho all them that be in the state of grace , that daily say devowteli this prayer before owre blessed lady of pity she wolle show● them her blessed vysage , and warn them the day and owre of deth , and in there last end the angells of god shall yield there sowles to heaven , and he shall obtayn hundreth yeres and soo many lenttis of pardon graunted by holy fathers popes of rome . that is pretty well for one prayer ! but this is nothing to what follows to a much shorter prayer than that . our holy father sixtus . pope hath graunted to all them that devoutly say this prayer before the image of our lady in the sone eleven thousand years of pardon . a prayer said to good purpose ! i confess i can hardly stoop now to those that have only dayes of pardon promised them ; yet for the sake of the procurer i will mention one . our holy father pope sixtus hath graunted at the instance of the highmost and excellent princesse elizabeth late quéen of englond and wyfe to our soveraign liege lord king henry the th . god have mercy on her sweet soull and all cristen soulls that every day in the morning after tollinges of the ave ●ell say times the hole salutation of our lady ave maria gratiâ that is to say , at the klock in the morning ave maria att of the klock at none ave maria and att a klock at even , for every time so doing is graunted of the spiritual treasour of holy church hundreth dayes of parden totiens quotiens . to which is annexed the pardon of the two arch-bishops and nine bishops , forty dayes a piece , three times a day , which begun , a. d. . the seventh year of henry . and the summ of the indulgence and pardon for every ave maria is days totiens quotiens . but if a man thinks himself well provided already , and hath a mind to help his friends , there is nothing like the o. s of st. brigitt : thys be the o. os. the which the holy uirgin s. brygytta was woente to say dayle before the holy rode in s. pauls church at rome , who soe says this a yere he schall deliver soulles out of purgatory of his next kyndred , and convert other sinners to gode lyf and other righteous men of his kynd shall persevere in gode lyf . and wat ye desyre of god ye schall have it , if yt be to the salvation of your sowle . not long after we find a better endowment with number of years than any we have yet met with . to all them that before this image of pytie devoutly say pater noster and aves & a credo , pityously beholding these armes of crystys passion , are graunted thirty two thousand seven hundred and fifty years of pardon ; and sixtus the . pope of rome hath made the and the prayer , and hath doubled his foresaid pardon . the prayer with boniface . his indulgence of ten thousand years pardon will hardly down with me now : much less that niggardly grant of iohn . of a hundred dayes pardon . what customers doth he hope to find at such sordid rates ? sixtus . for my money ; witness this indulgence . our holy father sixtus . graunted to all them that beyn in state of grace , sayeing this prayer following ymmediately after the elevation of the body of our lord clene remission of all their sins perpetually enduring . and also iohn the pope of rome at the request of the quéen of england hath graunted unto all them that devoutly say this prayer before the image of our lord crucified as many days of pardon as there were wounds in the body of our lord in the tyme of his bitter passion , the which were . it is well sixtus came after him , or else his market had been spoyled , the other so much out-bid him . next to clean pardon , iohn . offers fair ; only the task is somewhat harder , it being for three prayers . thys prayers be wrytton in the chappelle of the holy crosse in rome otherwise called s●cellum sanctae crucis romanorum , whoo that devoutly say them shall obtayn years of pardon for dedly sins graunted by our holie father iohn . pope of rome . methinks he should have come to a full hundred thousand , when his hand was in ! but there is one odd condition implyed in some of these prayers , called being in a state of grace , the want of which may hinder the effect of them ; but although due confession with absolution will at any time put a man into it , yet is there no remedy without it ? we will try once more for that , and end these indulgences . and i think the prayer of s. bernardine of siena will relieve us . thys most devoutly prayer sayd the holy father s. bernardine daylie kneeling in the worship of the most holy name iesus . and yt is well to believe that through the invocation of that most excellent name of iesu , s. bernard . obtayned a singular reward of perpetual consolation of our lord iesu christ. and thys prayer is written in a table that hangeth at rome in s. peters church nere to the high awter , there as our holy father the pope duely is wonte to say the office of the masse . and hoo that devoutly with a contrite heart dayly say this oryson yf he be that day in the state of eternal damnation , than this eternal payne shall be chaunged him in temporal payne of purgatory , than yf he hath deserved the payne of purgatory , yt shall be forgotten and forgiven thorow the infinite mercy of god. this is enough of all reason . and so much shall serve to set forth what the practice of indulgences hath been in the church of rome and what is expressed in them . § . . . i now come to give account what opinion hath been had of these indulgences in their own church , wherein some have freely confessed they have no foundation in scripture or antiquity , others that they are only pious frauds , and those who have gone about to defend them , have been driven to miserable shifts in the defence of them . . some have confessed that they have no foundation in scripture or antiquity . durandus saith , that very little can be affirmed with any certainty concerning indulgences , because neither the scripture speaks expresly of them , and the fathers ambrose , hilary , august . , hierome speak not all of them : and therefore he hath no more to say , but that the common opinion is to be followed herein . the same is said by another school-man , who addes this , that though it be a negative argument , yet it is of force , because in the time of those fathers they were very much skilled in the scriptures , and it were very strange if indulgences were to be found there that they did not find them . this is likewise affirmed by cajetan , dominicus soto , and all those who assert that the use of indulgences came into the church upon the relaxing the severity of the primitive discipline , which they say continued in use for a years after christ. but the most express testimonies in this case are of bishop fisher , who saith that the use of indulgences came very late into the church ; and of polydore virgil following his words , and of alphonsus à castro , who ingenuously confesseth , that among all the controversies he writes of , there is none which the scripture or fathers speak less of , than this ; but however , he saith , though the use of them seem to have come very late into the church , they ought not to be contemned , because many things are known to latter ages , which the ancient writers were wholly ignorant of ; for which he instanceth in transubstantiation ; procession from the son , and purgatory . but he ought to have remembred what himself had said before in a chapter of finding out heresies , that , the novelty of any doctrine makes it of it self to be suspected , because christ and his apostles did give sufficient instructions for attaining eternal life ; and after the law given by christ no other law is to be expected , because his testament is eternal . let this be applyed to his own confession of these doctrines , and the consequence is easily discerned . and it is an excellent saying of bellarmin , that , in things which depend on the will of god , nothing ought to be affirmed , unless god hath revealed it in the h. scriptures . therefore according to the opinion of these persons who assert the doctrine of indulgences to have no foundation in scripture or antiquity , it can be no other than a notorious cheat. . some in the church of rome have called them pious frauds . this appears by the controversies which arose upon indulgences , at the same time when they began to grow common . for aquinas and bonaventure tell us , that there were some in the church who said , that the intention of the church in indulgences was only by a pious fraud to draw men to charitable acts , which otherwise they would not have done ; as a mother which promiseth her child an apple to run abroad , which she never gives him , when she hath brought him to it . which is the very instance they used , as gregory de valentiâ confesseth . but this aquinas rejects as a very dangerous opinion , because this is in plain terms to make the church guilty of a notorious cheat ; and as , he saith , from st. augustine , if any falshood be found in scripture , it takes away the authority of the whole ; so if the church be guilty of a cheat in one thing , she will be suspected in all the rest . this , saith bonaventure , is to make the church to lye and deceive , and indulgences to be vain and childish toyes . but for all these hard words , they had a great deal of reason on their side : for the indulgences were express for the remission of the sins of those who did such and such things , as the giving a small summ of money towards the building of a church , or an hospital ; they therefore asked whether the indulgences were to be taken as they were given or no ? if they were , then all those had full remission of sins on very easie terms ; if not , then what is this else but fraud and cheating , and can be only called pious because the work was good which they did ? this put the defenders of indulgences very hard to it ; praepositivus , one of the eldest of the schoolmen confesseth that it looks a little oddly for a man to be absolved from all his sins for three pence , given in three several places ; and that the rich by this means have a mighty advantage over the poor : but he resolves it all into the power of the church . petrus cantor confesseth the difficulties great , but only for the churches authority ; and especially in those general indulgences which are pronounced without any distinctions . therefore he saith greg. . as he calls him ( morinus thinks greg. . ) in the dedication of the church of benevento , told the people it was much safer for them to undergoe their penance than to receive an indulgence from him of any part of it : and another bishop , being desired an indulgence would give it but for two dayes ; but if any one asks , whether the remission of sins were presently obtained after indulgence , or only when they are uncapable of penance , viz. after death ; for his part , he saith , he desires them to consult the pope or the bishop that gives the indulgence , whether of these opinions is true ; and when the bishop of paris shewed him the magnificent church he had built by vertue of indulgences , cantor told him , he had done much better if he had let them alone , and perswaded the people to undergoe their penance . but because the form of indulgences ran in such large and general terms ; it grew to be a great question among the schoolmen , whether the validity of indulgences was as great as the words of them ? which in other terms is whether the church did cheat or not in giving them ? for if they were not to understand them according to the plain words of them ; what is this but a gross imposture to abuse the credulous people , and laugh in their sleeves at them for their simplicity . for while the people have so good an opinion of their church as to believe the truth of what she declares , and to take indulgences according to the sense of the words ; if their meaning who give them be otherwise than is expressed , it is one of the most abominable cheats that ever was invented by men . for picking purses , forging deeds , or betraying men are tolerable things in comparison ; but to abuse and ruine their souls under a pretence of pardoning their sins , is the utmost degree of fraud and imposture . let us now see how these hucksters defend their church in this case ; for the question hath been debated among the schoolmen ever since indulgences came up . some resolve it thus , that indulgences do signifie as much as the church declares , but with these conditions , that there be sufficient authority in the giver , necessity in the receiver , that he believes the church hath power to give them , that he be in a state of grace , and give a sufficient compensation , which is to overthrow what they said , unless those conditions were expressed in the indulgences . some say that common indulgences held only for sins of ignorance , others for venial sins , others for penances negligently performed , others for purgatory pains . some again said that these could signifie no more than a relaxation of canonical penance , whatever the words were , and that they were introduced for no other end ; and they do not reach any farther than the churches canonical power or judgement doth , and not to the judgement of god. but this opinion , saith greg. de valentiâ doth not differ from the hereticks ; and withall , he saith , upon this principle , indulgences do more hurt than good ; for if it were not for them ; the sinner by his penance might take away some part of his punishment , but now he relyes upon his indulgence and does no penance , and so undergoes his whole punishment . albertus m. saith , they are much mistaken who say that indulgences are to be understood as large as their words are , without any farther condition ; and that this is to enlarge the court of gods mercy too far ; and sayes many conditions are to be understood , which are not expressed in them . this gave the first occasion to the treasure of the church , invented by aquinas to satisfie this argument of albertus concerning the mercy of god being extended too far by indulgences ; for hereby what punishment is taken away from one is made up by the punishment of another , which is reckoned upon his account . and therefore , he saith , the cause of the remission of punishment is not the devotion , work , or gift of the receiver , but the treasure of merits which was in the church which the pope might dispense ; and therefore the quantity of the remission was not to be proportioned to the acts of the receiver , but to the stock of the church ? this rich banck of the churches stock being thus happily discovered , they do not question now but to set all accounts even with it ; and therefore aquinas confidently affirms , that indulgences are to be understood simply as they are expressed ; for god , saith he , doth not need our lye or deceit ; which he grants , must have been if indulgences had not been meant as they were expressed ; and all men would sin mortally who preached indulgences , yet to obtain the indulgence , he saith , that every man must give according to his ability ; for the objection being put , concerning an indulgence being given to three several places , that whosoever gives a penny towards the building of a church in every one of these places , shall for each of them have the third part of his sins forgiven him , so that for three pence a man gets a plenary remission ; he answers , that a poor man may indeed have it so , but it is to be understood that a rich man ought to give more . for it is all the reason in the world that a rich man should pay greater vse for the stock of the church , than a poor man can do : and it is reasonably to be presumed that he had more sins to be pardoned than the other , and therefore whatever the general terms are , there must be some reserve to hook in more from the rich than was expressed in the first bargain . but if the rich man should plead law in the case , and cry out it was covin and fraud , to demand more than the first contract was ; i am not skilful enough to determin what action the church can have against him . but there is another shrewd objection mentioned by bonaventure , which is , that a man gets by sinning , as suppose two men to receive the remission of a third part of their sins by an indulgence , one owes but it may be years penance for his sins , and another hath run upon the score so far that he owes years , both receive a third part indulgence ; in which case we see plainly the greater sinner hath mightily the advantage of the other , and where one gets but . the other gets . and therefore bonaventure is fain to run back again and to say , that indulgences are not to be understood as they are expressed , and that they are not equal to all ; but it was not fit to express it so , because this would hinder peoples esteem of the indulgence . which in plainer terms is , that it is necessary to cheat the people , or else there is no good to be done by indulgences . thence petrarch called them nets wherein the credulous multitude were caught ; and in the time of boniface . the people observing what vast summs of money were gathered by them cryed out they were meer cheats and tricks to get money with , upon which paulus langius ( a monk ) exclaims . o god , to what are these things come ! thou holdest thy peace , but thou wilt not alwayes , for the day of the lord will bring the hidden things of darkness to light . conrad . vrspergensis saith , that rome might well rejoyce in the sins of the people , because she grew rich by the compensation which was made for them : thou hast ( saith he to her ) that which thou hast alwayes thirsted after , sing and rejoyce , for thou hast conquered the world , not by religion , but by the wickedness of men . which is that which draws them to thee , not their devotion and piety . platina saith , the selling indulgences brought the ecclesiastical authority into contempt , and gave encouragement to many sins . vrspergensis complains , that plenary indulgences brought more wickedness into the world ; for , he saith , men did then say , let me do what wickedness i will , by them i shall be free from punishment , and deliver the souls of others from purgatory . gerson saith , none can give a pardon for so many years as are contained in the popes indulgences but christ alone : therefore what are they but cheats and impostures ? in spain , indulgences were condemned by petrus de osma a divine of salamanca and his followers , as appears by the popes bull against them , a. d. . in germany by i●hannes de vesaliâ a famous preacher of mentz ; for serrarius reckons this among the chief of his opinions , that indulgences were only pious frauds and wayes to deceive the people , and that they were fools who went to rome for them . about the same time flourished wesselus groningensis incomparably the best scholar of his age , and therefore called lux mundi , he was not only skilled in school divinity ( almost the only learning of that time ) but in the greek , hebrew , chaldee and arabick , having travelled into greece , aegypt , and been in most vniversities of europe , and read the most ancient authors in all kinds of learning ; on the account of his learning he was much in favour with sixtus . and was present and admired at the council of basil ; but he was so far from being a friend to indulgences , that in his epistles he saith , that no popes could grant an indulgence for an hour , and that it is a ridiculous thing to imagine that for the same thing done , sometimes an indulgence should be granted for years , sometimes for , sometimes for , and sometimes for ever by a plenary remission ; and that there is not the least foundation in scripture for the distinction of remitting the fault and the punishment , upon which the doctrine of indulgences is founded . that the giving them was a design of covetousness , and although the pope once sware to the king of france's embassadour , that he did not know the corruptions of the sellers of indulgences , yet when he did know them he let them alone , and they spread farther . that god himself doth not give plenary remission to contrition and confession , and therefore the pope can much less do it : but if god doth forgive , how comes the pope to have power to retain ? and if there be no punishment retained when god forgives , what hath the pope● to do to release ? against him writes one iacobus angularis , he confesseth there is nothing in scripture or antiquity expresly for indulgences ; but that ought to be no argument , for there are many other things owned in their church as necessary points which have as little foundation as this , viz. s. peters being at rome , and sacramental confession ; and therefore at last he takes sanctuary in the popes and churches authority . to this wesselus answers , that indulgences were accounted pious frauds before the time of albertus and thomas ; that there was a great number of divines did still oppose the errours and practices of the court of rome in this matter ; that supposing the church were for them , yet the authority of scripture is to be preferred before it , and no multitude of men whatsoever is to be believed against scripture : that , he had not taken up this opinion rashly , but had maintained it in paris thirty three years before , and in the popes poenitentiary court at rome ; and was now ready to change it , if he could see better reason for the contrary . that the doctrine of indulgences was delivered very confusedly and uncertainly , by which it appeared to be no catholick doctrine : that it is almost impossible to find two men agree in the explication of them , that the doctrine of indulgences was so far from being firmly believed among them , that there was not the strictest person of the carthusian or other orders that should receive a plenary indulgence at the hour of death , that yet would not desire his brethren to pray for his soul : which is a plain argument he did not believe the validity of the indulgence : that many in the court of rome did speak more freely against them than he did . that , the popes authority is very far from being infallible ; or being owned as such in the church ; as appeared by the divines at paris condemning the bull of clement . about indulgences , wherein he took upon him to command the angels , and gave plenary remissions both from the fault and punishment . which authentick bulls , he saith , were then to be seen at vienne , limoges and poictou . it is notorious to the world what complaints were made in germany after his time of the fraud of indulgences , before any other point of religion came into dispute ; and how necessarily from this , the popes authority came to be questioned , that being the only pretence they had to justifie them by : and with what success these things were then managed , it is no more purpose to write now , than to prove that it is day at noon . the council of trent could not but confess horrible abuses in the sale of indulgences , yet what amendment hath there been since that time ? bellarmin confesseth , that it were better if the church were very sparing in giving indulgences : i wonder why so ; if my adversaries experience and observation be true , that they prove great helps to devotion and charity . can the church be too liberal in those things which tend to so good an end ? § . . but bellarmin would not have the people too confident of the effect of indulgences ; for though the church may have power to give them ; yet they may want their effect in particular persons ; and therefore , saith he , all prudent christians do so receive indulgences , as withall to satisfie god themselves for their sins , i. e. in plain terms , that all prudent christians are too wise to believe them , and none but fools do rely on them . for if there were any thing but fraud and imposture in them , why may not a prudent christian trust a church which he believes infallible ? if the head of the church publishes an indulgence , wherein he remits to all that are confessed and contrite , upon doing such actions of charity and piety the remaining temporal punishment of their sins : i desire to know why a prudent christian of that church may not , yea ought not to rely upon his word ? doth he suspect the head of his church may cheat and abuse him ? if he doth , what becomes of infallibility ? if he verily believes that the pope cannot erre and will not deceive , why must not his word be taken ? and how can his word be taken for the remitting of a debt , when they take as much care of payment as if he had said nothing ? i know not how those things pass among the prudent christians of that church , but to me they look like the greatest suspicion of a cheat that may be . as suppose a great person out of kindness to one that is in danger of lying in prison for debt , gives him a note under his hand , that upon the acknowledgment of his debt to his attourney , and paying him his fees , he will see his debt wholly discharged ; and a friend of the prisoner tells him openly , he ought to receive that favour in an extraordinary manner with all thankfulness ; for that person is one who can never fail of his word ; and he need not question his ability for he hath a vast treasure in his hands , to be disposed of for such uses ; can we otherwise think , but that the poor man would be strangely surprised with joy at it ; and if he hath any money left , he will be sure to give it to the person imployed in so good a work ? but withall if he should secretly whisper him , that he advises him as a friend , that he would look out all other wayes imaginable to satisfie his creditours , and that all prudent persons in his case had taken the same course ; what must the thoughts of such a man be of such a large and noble offer ? truly , that the gentleman was a great courtier , but a man must have a care of believing him too far ; and his friend understood the world , and that one thing was to be said and done in shew not to disoblige so great a person , but for all that , a man must mind his own business , or he may be choused at last if he trust too far to such large promises . this is just the case of indulgences in the roman church ; a man is affrighted with the dreadful prison of purgatory , as the temporal punishment of his sins , which god will certainly exact from him , either here by satisfactions and penances , or there in the pains of that state ; while the man considers with himself the hardness of his condition , he hears of indulgences to be had ; and after he hath enquired the meaning of them is very well satisfied , that if he can get one of them , he shall do well enough . for he is told that his holiness is infallible , and that he cannot cheat or lye , or deceive like other men , and therefore of all persons in the world he would soonest trust him ; but because many others are in the same condition with him , he may a little question , whether his stock will hold out or no : here his friends assure him the treasure of the church , ( of which the pope hath the keys ) is so large , that if it were a thousand times more , he need not fear it ; only he must confess his sins and have contrition for them , and do some charitable acts , and pay some customary fees and duties , and he shall have a total discharge . well , sayes the man in a transport of joy , this is the bravest church in the world for a man to sin in , if he may escape thus : and what need i question , since the pope is infallible , and the treasury of the church is inexhaustible ? how am i freed now , not only from the fears of hell and purgatory , but from crabbed and hateful penances ? that honest and kind-hearted gentleman the pope hath struck a tally for me in his exchequer , and i shall have my share in my course and order ; without lashings , and whippings , and fastings , and mumblings , and i know not how many odd tricks besides : but soft and fair , saith bellarmins prudent christian to him , be not too confident of your ease and discharge , you must use as great severities with your self , and undergoe as many penances , and say as many prayers as if you had no indulgence at all . say you so , i pray what benefit then have i , saith he , by this which you call an indulgence ? what is it an indulgence of ? is there not a full remission of sins contained in it ; and i have been always told by that is meant the discharge of the temporary punishment due to sin either here or in purgatory ? shall i be discharged , or shall i not upon it ? if i shall , what do you tell me of that which i am discharged from ? if not , the indulgence is a spiritual trapan , and the pope and infallible cheat. i cannot see how a man can think otherwise , that made such account of the great benefit of indulgences , and at last finds they come to nothing but deceiving the people and getting money . § . . by this we see already , what miserable shifts they are put to , who defend indulgences but as an honest contract , but they who will justifie them as containing something divine and satisfactory for the punishment of mens sins , are fain to build the doctrine of them upon such absurd and unintelligible notions , that it is almost as hard to understand as to believe it . it cannot be denyed , that there are some in the church of rome whose doctrine of indulgences is easie enough , but then it marrs the whole markett , and this doctrine is therefore condemned by others as heretical in sense . which is , that indulgences are nothing else but a relaxation of the ancient severity of church discipline , according to the old penitential canons ; which doth not respect the justice of god , but the discipline of the church over offenders . this is a doctrine we have nothing to complain of the difficulty of understanding , but we know not to what purpose , ( if this be all ) any particular indulgences are ever given , since there is so general an indulgence by the practice of the whole church among them , wherein they cannot pretend to observe any of the old penitential canons . and to give a man an indulgence to omit that , which no body requires and is wholly out of use , would be like the kings giving a man a patent not to wear trunk-hose and ruffs , when it would be ridiculous to use them . and if this were all intended , why is it not so expressed if they meant honestly ? but they know , if their pardons ran so , no one would give a farthing for them . what need any talk of the churches treasure for this ? which clement . made the ground of indulgences in his bull : and hath been asserted by the most zealous defenders of them . this way of explaining indulgences then , though it be easie and intelligible , yet it is not reconcileable with the practice of the church of rome , nor with the suppositions on which that practice is built . we are therefore to enquire what they can make of it , who go about to defend it as it is practised and generally understood among them . to this end they tell us , that although the fault be remitted upon the sacrament of penance , yet the temporal punishment of sin remains , which god must be satisfied for : that this temporal punishment is either to be undergone here or in purgatory , that every man must have undergone it himself , if there had not been a treasure of the church made up of the satisfactions of christ , and the saints , to make amends to god for every one to whom that treasure is applyed . that , the dispensing of this treasure is in the hands of the pope , who gives it out by indulgences , which being applyed to any person upon the condition required , he is thereby discharged from the debt of temporal punishment which he owed to god. this is the received doctrine of indulgences in the roman church ; which holds together till you touch it , and then it presently flies in pieces like a glass drop , or vanishes into smoke and aire . it is of so tender a composition that it can endure no rough handling ; if you like it as it is , much good may it do you , but you must ask no questions : but however i shall , to shew the monstrous absurdities of this doctrine . . why if the indulgence only respects the punishment and not the fault , the terms of the indulgence do not express this , that the people may not be deceived ? why in all indulgences since this doctrine is so explained as in the iubilees of clement . and of vrban . ( the former of whom is applauded by bellarmin for a reformer of indulgences ) the most general expressions are still used of most plenary indulgence , remission and pardon of all their sins ? why is it not said only of the temporal punishment due to sin , the fault being supposed to be remitted ? . how punishment doth become due , when the fault is remitted ? if the punishment be just , it must have respect to the fault , for to punish without respect to the fault , is all one as to punish without fault ; if it have respect to the fault , how that fault can be said to be remitted which is punished ? so far as a man is punished , it is nonsense to say he is pardoned , and so far as he is not pardoned , his fault is charged upon him . . suppose temporal punishment remain to be satisfied for ; whether all or only some one kind ? whether diseases , pains , and death be not part of the temporal punishment of sin , and whether men may be freed from these by indulgences ? whether from the effects of the justice of god in extraordinary judgements ? if not , how can a man be said to be freed from the temporal punishment of sin that is as lyable to it as any one else ? . if only one sort of the temporal punishment of sin , why is not that one sort declared what it is , that all men may be satisfied from the pope himself , whom some believe infallible , in his indulgence ? others we find are not agreed about it ; some say it is only the punishment due to sin above the canonical penance ; some , that it is only the canonical penance and not that which is due from the justice of god , some that it is for both , some only for negligence in performing penance , some that it is only for injoyned penance , and others that it is for all that may be enjoyned . in this diversity of opinions what security can any man have what punishment he is to be freed from ? . if it be from canonical penance whether a man is wholly freed from the obligation to that or no ? if he be , what power hath the priest to enjoyne penance after ? if he be not free , what is it he is freed from ? and in what tolerable sense can this be called a most full remission of sins , which neither remits the fault , nor the natural or divine punishment , nor so much as the canonical penance enjoyned by a priest ? . although there needs no treasure where nothing is discharged ; yet since so great a one is spoken of for this purpose , wherein the satisfaction of christ bears the greatest share ; it were worth the enquiring why the satisfaction of christ might not as well remit the temporal punishment when the fault is remitted on the account of it , as afterwards by indulgences ? . how the parts of christs satisfaction come to be divided into that which was necessary , and that which was redundant ; so as the necessary satisfies for the fault , and the redundant for the temporal punishment ? whether christ did any more than god required ? whether any thing which god required can be said to be redundant ? if there be , how one part comes to be applyed and the other cast into a treasure ? what parts can be made of an infinite and entire satisfaction ? and if so little were necessary , and so much redundant , how the least part comes to satisfie for the fault and eternal punishment ; and the greatest only for the temporal punishment ? . whether all the satisfaction of christ taken together were not great enough to remit the eternal punishment of the whole world ? if it were , whether all the redundant parts of that , be cast into a treasure too ? and who hath the keeping of it , and what use is made of so much more useful a treasure than that which serves only to remit the temporal punishment ? what account can the pope give of suffering so vast a part of the churches treasure to lye idle and make no use of it for the benefit of those that need it ? . may not the pope , if he thinks of it , gather another mighty treasure of the absolute power of god which is never used , as for making new worlds , & c ? may he not by the help of this deliver souls out of hell , as well as by the other out of purgatory ? and if this be so much the greater kindness , he ought to think of it and imploy this treasure for these purposes . why may he not think of another treasure of the light of the sun that is more than enough for the use of the world , and to lay it up in store for the benefit of the purblind and aged ? . if the satisfaction of christ be so redundant ; how comes it not to be sufficient for so poor an end as indulgences serve for ; but the satisfactions of the saints must make up a share in this treasure too ? is not this worse , than to light a candle to help the sun , to suppose christs satisfaction so infinite , as to be sufficient to redeem more worlds , and yet not enough to deliver from temporal punishment without the satisfactions of the saints ? . how come the saints to make such large satisfactions to the justice of god , if the satisfaction of christ were of so infinite a nature ? and if they did make satisfactions , were they not sufficiently rewarded for them ? if they were , how come those satisfactions to help others which they were so abundantly recompensed for themselves ? . if the satisfaction of christ doth only obtain grace for the saints to satisfie themselves for the temporal punishment of their sins ; how can the application of this satisfaction by indulgences free any from the temporal punishment of their sins ? or have the satisfactions of saints being joyned with christs greater power now in common penitents , than the satisfaction of christ alone in the greatest saints ? . why the satisfaction of christ may not serve , without the saints to remit only the temporal punishment of sins ; when it was sufficient alone to remit both eternal and temporal in the sacrament of baptism ? or was the force of it spent then , that it needs a fresh supply afterwards ? but if then it could be applyed to a higher end , without any other help , why not where it is to have far less efficacy ? . if satisfaction be made to god for the temporal punishment of penitents by indulgences ; i desire to know when and by whom the payment is made to god ? if it was made by the persons whose satisfactions make the churches treasure , for that end , what hath the pope to do to dispense that which god hath accepted long agoe for payment ? if it be made by the pope , in what way doth he make it ? doth he take out so much ready cash of the churches treasure and pay it down upon the nail , according to the proportion of every ones sins ? or doth he only tell god where such a treasure lyes and bid him go and satisfie himself , for as much as he discharges of his d●bt ? . how came this treasure of the church into the popes keeping ? who gave him alone the keys of it ? if there were any such thing , methinks those who are trusted with the greater treasure of christs necessary satisfaction for the remitting of eternal punishment , as every priest is by their own doctrine in the sacrament of penance : should not be denyed the lesser of the superfluities of christ and the saints sufferings for the remitting only temporal punishment . when i once see these questions satisfactorily answered , i may then think better of this doctrine than i doe at present ; for the best i can think of it now is , that there never was a doctrine more absurd in the ground of it , or more gainful in the practice than this of indulgences in the roman church ; and therefore ought to be accounted one of the most notorious cheats that ever was in the christian world . § . . but let us suppose it otherwise , and then we are to enquire , whether this would tend to promote or obstruct that very way of devotion , which is most in request in the roman church ? there are but two ways to judge of this , either by experience or the nature of the doctrine it self . for experience my adversary alledges his own , and that he hath seen great devotion caused by them : but by his favour the question is not , what outward acts of devotion may be performed by some ignorant and silly people , who are abused by great hopes of strange benefits by indulgences , and therefore prepare themselves with some shew of devotion to receive them especially when they are unusual ; but the question is , whether they have these effects upon those who understand the nature and designe of them and the doctrine of their church about them . for as durandus resolves it , the validity of the indulgence doth not depend on the devotion of the receiver , for then saith he , the indulgence would contain a falsity in it , which is , that whosoever doth such a thing , as going to the . churches , shall have plenary remission of his sins ; therefore saith he , whoever doth the thing , shall have the whole benefit of the indulgence , or else the indulgence is false . and to his experience i shall oppose , that of greater observers of the world than he hath been . i have already mentioned the testimony of vrspergensis and others concerning the effects of plenary indulgences in their times , how men encouraged themselves to sin the more because of them . polydore virgil observes , that when indulgences were grown common , many men did abstain less from doing evil actions . the author of the book called onus ecclesiae saith , that they take men off from the fruits of repentance , and are profitable only to the idle and wicked . the princes of germany in the diet of norimberg among the grievances represented to the pope , by the consent of them all ; upon the mention of indulgences reckon as the least bad consequence of them , that the people were cheated of their money by them ; but that they say was far more considerable , that true christian piety was destroyed by them ; and that all manner of wickedness did spring fr●m thence ; and that men were afraid of committing no kind of sin , when at so cheap a rate they could purchase a remission of them . but setting aside the experience of these things , let us consider what the nature of the doctrine it self tends to , to those who believe it . the least benefit we see allowed them is a freedom from enjoyned penances ; and what are these penances accounted among them , but fruits of true repentance , a severe mortification , fasting , frequent prayers and almes ? so that the short of this doctrine is , that men by indulgences are excused from doing the best parts of their religion , and if this be a way of promoting devotion i leave any one in his senses to judge . § . . i proceed now to the denying the cup to the laity , contrary to the practice of the church in the solemn celebration of the eucharist for a thousand years after christ. to which he answers . ways ( ) that the receiving in one or both kinds was ever held a matter of liberty in the church . ( ) that it was as much in the churches power to alter it after a . years , as in the first or second century . ( ) that the believing whole christ to be present in one kind tends more to excite devotion than receiving both elements without that belief . this is the substance of his answer . but i have else where at large proved , and need not repeat it here , that the institution of christ , as to both kinds , was of an universally obligatory nature , not only from the will of the first institutor , but from the universal sense of the church concerning the nature of that institution . and there i have largely answer'd those very testimonies produced by him , and shewed that they are so far from proving the use of one kind in the catholick church , that leo in that very place shewes , that it was the token of an heretick not to receive in both kinds ; and the other instance in the greek church is only of a woman in whose mouth the bread turned into a stone , that she had not patience to stay to receive the cup. so very pittyful are the proofs brought against the use of both kinds for a . years after christ , which being supposed and acknowledged by some of the most learned and ingenuous of their own church , i wonder what authority the church afterwards can have to alter , what was always looked on before as an obliging institution of christ ? might it not as well alter any other institution on the same grounds ? and wholly forbid the bread to the laity as well as the cup ; and i doe not at all question but as substantial reasons might be brought for one as the other . i had thought the gentlemen of the roman church had pretended a mighty reverence to apostolical traditions , and the practice of the catholick church , for a thousand years after christ. but it seems this signifies nothing to them , when it is contrary to their present doctrine and practice . then it makes a great noise as he saith but nothing else : thus we protestants have at last gained antiquity of our side , it is now yielded that though the church were for us , for a thousand years , yet if it now decree or act otherwise , this is enough for them . and we are contented to have christ and his apostles and all the primitive practice , for so long a time on our side ; and to leave them to enjoy the satisfaction that follows , taking the part of the church of rome against them all . but however their opinion tends more to devotion ? alas for us ! we doe not account it any piece of devotion to believe non-sense , and contradictions such as the doctrine of transubstantiation implies : we know not what devotion there can be in opposing a plain institution of christ , and not meerly in leaving the people at liberty to receive in one or both kinds , but in prohibiting the far greatest part of christians to receive as christ appointed ; we know not what devotion there can lye in worshipping a piece of bread for the son of god ; and believing that when a wafer is taken into our mouths , that god himself is personally entered under our roof . o horrible devotion and detestable superstition ! to give the same adoration to a wafer which we doe to the eternal god ; and to believe christ to goe down as personally into our bellies , as ever he went up and down when he was upon earth . § . . that which followes is , the power of a persons dispensing in oaths and marriages contrary to the law of god , which i therefore made a hindrance of the sincerity of devotion because it is apt to possess mens minds with an apprehension that religion is only a politick cheat , if any person shall be thought able to dispense with those things which are universally received among christians as the laws of god. that which i meant , was the popes taking upon him to dispense with oaths of allegiance to princes , and the incestuous marriages of some great princes . and now let any one consider what his answer signifies : he saith , that some kinds of oaths may be judged in some circumstances to be hurtful and not fit to be kept : and the dispensation in them is no more than to judge or determine them to be so : and for marriages , he addes that the church may dispense in some degrees of affinity and consanguinity , but in nothing contrary to the law of god. but this doth not at all reach to the busines ; for dispensing in this way may as well be done by a casuist as the bishop of rome ; but the question lyes here , whether those things which otherwise would be sins by the law of god , doe therefore cease to be so , because of the popes power to discharge that obligation of conscience which lay upon the person , either in oaths or marriages ? let him answer directly to this ; for the other is shuffling and not answering . as , it is granted that a subject hath an obligation of conscience upon him to obey his soveraigne by vertue of the law of god ; and the universal sense of the church hath been that there are some degrees of consanguinity and affinity which it is incest to marry within : i desire to know whether the popes power can make disobedience lawful in one case and marriage in another , which without that power were utterly unlawful ? this he could not but know was the thing meant , but not fit to be answered . § . . the last instance is , making disobedience to the church in disputable matters , more hainous than disobedience to the laws of christ in unquestionable things , as marriage in a priest to be a greater crime than fornication . to this he answers . . that the law of the church being supposed forbidding the marriage of a priest , that is no disputable matter : but it is out of question by the law of god , that obedience is to be given to the commands or prohibitions of the church . . that marriage in a priest , the prohibition of the church being supposed and a voluntary vow against it , is no better than adultery in the language of the fathers , and therefore worse than fornication . . that the state of single life is much more convenient for priests , than the married state is . this last answer is nothing at all to the purpose , for in matters of conveniency not determin'd by any law , every one is left to be his own chooser ; but the case i put , was not between a married life and single life , for we know no harm , either in one or the other of these , but every one is to judge as most tends to the comfort of his life and the ends of his calling ; which hath now far different circumstances from the apostolical times , which is a sufficient answer to the apostles words , cor. . . having a particular respect to the state of the christian church in that time of unfixedness and persecution : but the opposition was between marriage in a priest and fornication , whether the former were not by them made a greater crime than the latter , and whether this were not dishonour to the laws of christ to make the breach of a constitution of the church , in a matter left at liberty by the law of christ , a greater crime than the violation of an indisputable law of his ? and s. paul hath given a general rule which equally holds in all ages of the church , if they cannot contain let them marry , for it is better to marry than to burn . so that if s. paul may resolve the case he makes no question , that where there is but danger of fornication , marriage is so far from being a greater crime than that , that it becomes a duty to such a one . but hold , say they of the church of rome to s. paul , this is only meant of those whom the church allowes to marry , but if the church once forbid it to any they are not to marry , let their case be what it will. here then lyes the dispute between s. paul and them ; s. paul saith , to avoid fornication a man ought to marry ; they say , that to marry after the prohibition of the church is worse than fornication : s. paul might it may be ask , what authority their church had to determin contrary to what he had done in this case ; or men to make vows , against the most proper remedy of some of the infirmities of humane nature , and which god hath not promised to any to keep them from : if obedience to the church be indisputable , it is only in such things which god hath not antecedently determin'd by his own law ; but in the case between marriage and fornication god himself hath given a law before hand , which no church in the world can reverse . and however indifferent a thing in the general it be to marry or not , yet when it comes to that point , either marriage or fornication , i wonder at the confidence of any , who dare upon any account whatsoever , make marriage a greater crime than fornication . but , he saith , it seems strange to them who either cannot or will not take the word of christ , that is his counsel of chastity , that marriage in a priest should be a greater sin than fornication . it doth , i assure you seem strange to us , because we are desirous to keep the commands of christ , and we are sure marriage is against none of them , but fornication is . doth that man take christs counsel of chastity , that rather chooses to commit fornication than marry ? what admirable chastity is that ? and what a beastly institution must marriage be , if fornication be a less crime than that ? but what a reflection is this the mean while , on the author of it , and that state of innocency and purity wherein it was first appointed : they must needs think themselves very holy men , who look on that state as too impure for them , which was allotted to man in his greatest innocency . but although the first ages of the christian church were so full of hardship and difficulties , that if ever it should have been required of the governours of the church to have been above this state , it should have been at that time ; yet we find no such thing in the apostolical times or afterwards , when the necessities of affairs would most have required it . but when the christian church came to have settlement in the world , and by degrees persons were fixed with endowments to particular places , and some care of affaires of the world was necessarily joyned with those of the church ; there was far less reason to make such a prohibition of marriage to the clergy than ever was before . and the scandals were so abominable where those restraints were most in force , that on that very account the wisest men ( though as fond as any of the churches authority ) thought there was more reason to give liberty to priests to marry , than ever there had been to restrain them from it . i am not bound to defend all the extravagant and indiscreet passages which fell from some of the fathers concerning marriage ; but i am sure the church preserved her liberty in it notwithstanding them , as i might easily prove if it were suitable to my present designe . and s. cyprian speaking of those virgins , who came nearest to vows of virginity as rigaltius observes , saith , that it were better for them to marry , than to fall into bell by their sins , when they either will not or cannot keep their promise ; the same thing is said by s. augustin , by epiphanius , by the author of the epistle ad demetriadem as bishop iewel hath long since proved ; and need not here be repeated . two things he objects to prove marriage worse than fornication after a vow of continency ; one from the authority of s. paul , who saith the younger widdows that marry after the dedicating themselves to the service of the church , doe incurre damnation , because by so doing they made void their first faith , i. e. as the fathers expound it , the vow they had made . but doth he really think , that they did not break their first faith and incurre damnation by fornication as well as by marrying ? if they did , how can this prove marriage worse than fornication ? i grant , that by their first faith hath been understood the promise made to the church , and who denies the breach of promise to be a bad and scandalous thing , which is that s. paul means by damnation ; and is not fornication much more so , where a thing in it self evil is committed besides the breach of the promise ? can any one think that is not more waxing wanton against christ , than meer marrying is ? therefore s. paul would have the younger women to marry and not make any such promises ; which they would be in danger of breaking ; he would have none admitted into the condition of church-widdowes but those that were . years of ages , and so in reason to be supposed passed the temptations to fornication . whereby he shews what rule ought to be observed in all such promises , and that none ought to be brought under them , but such as are to be supposed past the common temptations of humane nature in those things . but his second authority is more to his purpose , ( if it were good for any thing , ) which is the . cannon of the . council of carthage as it is called ; but he might have found in iustellus his preface to the codex canonum ecclesiae africanae ; that this . council of carthage is of no authority at all ; and we need not be concerned for any canon contained therein , which is not in the code of the african church as this is not ; but seems taken out of some decretals of the popes , as will appear by comparing the . canon in the collection of cresconius with the . of this council . and it would be very strange if s. augustin were present in this council , that he should herein oppose what he had said elsewhere ; for he determins , that the marrying again of the widdows that had vowed continuance in that state was no adultery , but a lawful marriage ; and that husband and wife ought not to be separated from each other upon such marriages , and by that means make the husbands truely adulterers , when they separate from them and marry other wives : and therefore , saith he , that which the apostle condemns in them , is not so much their marrying as their will to marry whether they doe or no , whereby they break their first faith , so that it is not marriage but lust which the apostle condemns ; from whence it appears that s. austin could never , if he spake consonantly to himself , condemn marriage after a vow of continency to be worse than fornication . indeed , he saith , that this falling from that holy chastity which was vowed to god , may in some sense be said to be worse than adultery ; but he never imagined such a construction could be made of his words , as though the act of fornication were not a greater falling from it , than meer marriage could be . so much shall suffice for the instances produced in the roman church , of such things which tend to obstruct a good life and devotion . § . . the . argument i used to prove the danger a person runs of his salvation in the communion of the roman church , was because it exposeth the faith of christians to so great uncertainties ; which he looks on as a strange charge from the pen of a protestant . as strange as it is , i have at large proved it true in a full examination of the whole controversie of the resolution of faith between us and them ; to which i expect a particular answer before this charge be renewed again . to which i must refer him for the main proof of it , and shall here subjoyn only short replyes to his answers ; or references to what is fully answered already . . his distinction of the authority of the scripture in it self and to us , signifies nothing ; for when we enquire into the proofs of the authority of scripture , it can be understood no otherwise than in respect to us ; and if the scriptures authority as to us is to be proved by the church , and the churches authority as to us to be provved by the scripture , the difficulty is not in the least avoided by that distinction . and as little to the purpose is the other , that it is only an argument ad hominem , to prove the infallibility of the church from scriptures , for i would fain know upon what other grounds they build their own belief of the churches infallibility than on the promises of christ in the scripture ? these are miserable evasions and nothing else . for the trite saying of s. austin , that he would not believe the gospel , &c. i have at large proved that the meaning of it is no more than that the testimony of the vniversal church from the apostles times is the best way to prove the particular books of scripture , to be authentical and cannot be understood of the infallibility of the present church ; and that the testimony of some few persons as the manichees were was not to be taken in opposition to the whole christian church . which is a thing we as much contend for as they ; but is far enough from making the infallibility of our faith , to depend on the authority of the present church ; which we say is the way to overthrow all certainty of faith to any considering man. . to that of overthrowing the certainty of sense in the doctrine of transubstantiation ; he saith , that divine revelation ought to be believed against the evidence of sense . to which i answer ( . ) that divine revelation in matters not capable of being judged by our senses , is to be believed notwithstanding any argument can be drawn from sensible experiments against it ; as in the belief of god , the doctrine of the trinity , the future state of the soul , &c. ( . ) that in the proper objects of sense to suppose a revelation contrary to the evidence of sense , is to overthrow all certainty of faith where the matters to be believed depend upon matters of fact . as for instance , the truth of the whole christian doctrine depends upon the truth of christs resurrection from the dead : if sense be not here to be believed in a proper object of it , what assurance can we have that the apostles were not deceived , when they said they saw christ after he was risen ? if it be said there was no revelation against sense in that case : that doth not take off the difficulty , for the reason why i am to believe revelation at any time against sense must be , because sense may be deceived , but revelation cannot ; but if i yield to that principle that sense may be deceived in its most proper object , we can have no infallible certainty by sense at all , and consequently not in that point , that christ is risen from the dead . if it be said , that sense cannot be deceived , where there is no revelation against it : i desire to know how it comes to be deceived supposing a revelation contrary to it ? doth god impose upon our senses at that time ? then he plainly deceives us ; is it by telling us we ought to believe more than we see ? that we deny not : but we desire only to believe according to our senses in what we doe see ; as what we see to be bread , that is bread ; that what the apostles saw to be the body of christ was the body of christ really , and substantially , and not meerly the accidents of a body . besides , if revelation is to be believed against sense ; then either that revelation is conveyed immediately to our minds , which is to make every one a prophet that believes transubstantiation ; or mediately by our senses , as in those words this is my body : if so , than i am to believe this revelation by my senses , and believing this revelation , i am not to believe my senses : which is an excellent way of making faith certain . all this on supposition there were a revelation in this case , which is not only false , but if it were true would overthrow the certainty of faith . . to that i objected , as to their denying to men the use of their judgement and reason as to the matters of faith proposed by a church , when they must use it in the choice of a church ; he answers , that this cannot expose faith to any uncertainty , because it is only preferring the churches judgement before our own : but he doth not seem to understand the force of my objection which lay in this . every one must use his own judgement and reason in the choice of the church he is to rely upon ; is he certain in this or not ? if he be uncertain , all that he receives on the authority of that church must be uncertain too : if the use of reason be certain , then how comes the authority of a church to be a necessary means of certainty in matters of faith ? and they who condemn the use of a mans reason and judgement in religion must overthrow all certainty on their own grounds , since the choice of his infallible guide must depend upon it . now he understands my argument better , he may know better how to answer it : but i assure him i meant no such thing by the use of reason , as he supposes i would have , which is to believe nothing , but what my reason can comprehend ; for i believe an infinite being , and all the doctrines revealed by it in holy scriptures , although i cannot reconcile all particulars concerning them to those conceptions we call reason . but therefore to argue against the use of mens judgements in matters of faith , and the grounds of believing , is to dispute against that , which all wise men ever did , and will do to the worlds end . . i proved they made faith uncertain , by making the churches power to extend to the making new articles of faith . this he grants to be to the purpose , if it were true : but he saith , the church never owned any such power in her general councils , ( which doth not hinder but that the heads of their church have pretended to it and in case it be disputable among them , whether the pope be not infallible , that unavoidably leaves faith at uncertainties . ) yet he yields what i contend for , which is , that it is in the churches power to make that necessary to be believed which was not so before : for whether it be by inventing new articles , or declaring more explicitely the truths not contained in scripture and tradition ; it is all one to my purpose , as long as men might be saved without believing them before and cannot afterwards ; which is to make the conditions of salvation mutable according to the pleasure of the church ; which is the greatest inconveniency of inventing new doctrines . . i shewed , they made faith uncertain by pretending to infallibility in determining controversies , and yet not using it to determine those which are on foot among themselves . the force of the argument did not lye in this as he imagines , as though faith could not be certain , unless all controversies were determined , which was far from my thoughts , but that pretending there can be no faith without infallibility in their church to end controversies , they should give such great occasion to suspect that they did not believe themselves by imploying that infallibility in ending the great controversies among themselves ; of which i have spoken already , and to this he gives no answer at all . thus much in vindication of the third argument , i made use of to prove , that all those who are in the communion of the roman church , do run so great a hazard of their salvation , that none who have a care of their souls ought to embrace or continue in it . § . . i now come to the third answer to the first question , which was , that a protestant leaving the communion of our church , doth incurre a greater guilt , than one who was bred up in the communion of the church of rome , and continues therein by invincible ignorance , and therefore cannot equally be saved with such a one . three things he objects against this answer . . that this makes them both damned , though unequally , because the converted catholick more deeply than he that was bred so . . that this reflects as much upon st. austin as them , who rejected the communion of the manichees , and embraced that of the church of rome upon their grounds . . that it is contrary to our distinction of points fundamental and not fundamental . to which i reply : . that the design of my answer was not to pass the sentence of damnation on all who dye in the communion of the roman church ; but to shew that they who forsook a better church for it do incurre greater guils , than those who are alwayes bred up in it and live and dye in the belief of its being the true church , and therefore are not in an equal capacity of salvation with them . i shall make my meaning more plain by a parallel instance or two ; many in the church of rome have asserted the possibility of the salvation of heathens ( though some bigots have denyed it to protestants ) suppose this question were put concerning two persons : whether a christian having the same motives to become a heathen , which one bred and born and well grounded in heathenism hath to remain in it , may not equally be saved in the profession of it ? and a third person should answer , that a christian leaving the communion of the christian church doth incurre a greater guilt , than one who was bred up in heathenism and continues therein by invincible ignorance : doth this answer imply that they must both be damned though equally ? or rather doth it not yield a greater possibility of salvation to one than to the other ? or suppose , ( to come nearer our case ) the question were put , concerning one that revolted from the church of iudah to the ten tribes , ( which were guilty of idolatry , though not of the highest kind , ) whether he were equally capable of salvation with one who was bred up in the communion of the church of israel all his dayes ? i should make no question to pronounce his condition more dangerous than the other ; & yet not therein damn them both , but only imply that it was much harder for to escape than the other . for he that was bred up in the church of israel , believing it was the true god he served , and in a right manner , and looking on the church of iudah as a schismatical church , and seeing the greater number of tribes on their side , and wanting that instruction which was in the church of iudah , might in the sincerity of his heart serve god in a false way , and pray to him to pardon all his errours and corruptions , and have a general repentance of all sins , though not particularly convinced of the idolatry of the ten tribes , i dare not say , but god will accept of such a one that thus fears god and works righteousness in the simplicity of his heart : but i cannot say the same of one who revolts from iudah , where the true god was worshipped in a true manner , where he had sufficient means of instruction , and either wilful ignorance , or temporal ends , or unreasonable prejudices makes him deliberately choose a worse and more impure church before a better , for that very sin makes his case much more dangerous than the other . our business is not to enquire into the salvation or damnation of any particular persons ; for that depends upon so many circumstances as to the aggravation or extenuation of their faults , the nature and sincerity of their repentance , the integrity and simplicity of their minds ; which none but god himself can know : but to find out the truest way to salvation , and to reject whatever church requires that which is in it self sinful ; for though god may pardon those who live in it in the simplicity of their minds , yet their hopes lying in their ignorance and repentance , none who have a care of their souls dare venture themselves in so hazardous a state . setting aside then the consideration of the danger common to both , i say the case of a revolter from us to the church of rome is much worse than of one who was alwayes bred up in it , because he might far more easily understand the danger he runs into , and wilfull ignorance only keeps him from it , and he doth upon deliberation choose a state of infinite hazard before one of the greatest safety . . this doth not reflect on st. austin or the church in his time , which was as far different from theirs as the churches of iudah and israel were from each other : neither can it destroy the distinction of fundamentals and not fundamentals , for the possibility of salvation allowed to any in their church is built upon the supposition that they have all that is fundamentally necessary in order to it , though there are many dangerous errours and corruptions in that church whose communion they live in . § . . the answers to the first question being thus vindicated ; there remains little to be added concerning the second . for he tells me , that he agrees so far with me , that every christian is bound to choose the communion of the purest church . but which that church is must be seen by the grounds it brings to prove the doctrines it teaches , to have been delivered by christ and his apostles . and to be even with him , i thus far agree with him in the way of proof of a churches purity , viz. by agreement with the doctrine of christ and his apostles ; and that that church is to be judged purest which shews the greatest evidence of that consent ; and that every one is bound to enquire which church hath the strongest motives for it and to embrace the communion of it . being thus far agreed , i must now enquire into what motives he offers on behalf of their church ; and what method he prescribes for delivering ours . for the former , he produces a large catalogue of catholick motives ( as he calls them ) in the words of dr. taylour , liberty of prophecy , sect. . and i do not know a better way of answering them , than in the words of the same eminent and learned person , which he uses upon a like occasion to his demonstrating friend i. s. but now in my conscience , ( saith the bishop ) this was unkindly done , that when i had spoken for them what i could , and more than i knew they had ever said for themselves , and yet to save them harmless from the iron hands of a tyrant and unreasonable power , to keep them from being persecuted for their errours and opinions , that they should take the arms i had lent them for their defence , and throw them at my head . but the best of it is , though i. s. be unthankful , yet the weapons themselves are but wooden daggers , intended only to represent how the poor men are couzened by themselves , and that under fair and fraudulent pretences even pious well meaning men , men wise enough in other things may be abused . and though what i said , was but tinsel and pretence , imagery and whipt cream , yet i could not be blamed to use no better than the best their cause could bear : yet if that be the best they have to say for themselves , their probabilities will be soon out-ballanced by one scripture-testimony urged by protestants , and thou shalt not worship any graven images will out-weigh all the best and fairest imaginations of their church . — but then i. s. might , if he had pleased , have considered , that i did not intend to make that harangue to represent that the roman religion had probabilities of being true , but probabilities that the religion might be tolerated , or might be endured : and if i was deceived it was but a well meant errour , hereafter they shall speak for themselves , only for their comfort , this they might have also observed in that book , that there is not half so much excuse for the papists , as there is for the anabaptists , and yet it was but an excuse at the best . but since from me , saith he , they borrow their light armour , which is not pistol-proof ; from me if they please they may borrow a remedy to undeceive them , and that in the same kind and way of arguing ; for which he referrs to a letter written by him to a gentlewoman seduced to the church of rome ; out of which i shall transcribe so much as may over-ballance the probabilities produced elsewhere by him . after directions given rather to enquire what her religion is than what her church is , for that which is a true religion to day , will be so to morrow and for ever , but that which is a holy church to day , may be heretical at the next change , or may betray her trust , or obtrude new articles in contradiction to the old , &c. and shewing the unreasonablness of believing the roman to be the catholick church ; he descends thus to particulars . you are now gone to a church that protects it self by arts of subtlety and arms , by violence and persecuting all that are not of their minds : to a church in which you are to be a subject of the king so long as it pleases the pope : in which you may be absolved from your vows made to god , your oaths to the king , your promises to men , your duty to your parents in some cases : a church in which men pray to god and to saints in the same form of words in which they pray to god , as you may see in the offices of saints , and particularly of our lady ; a church in which men are taught by most of the principal leaders to worship images with the same worship with which they worship god or christ , or him or her , whose image it is , and in which they usually picture god the father and the holy trinity to the great dishonour of that sacred mystery , against the doctrine and practice of the primitive church , against the express doctrine of scripture , against the honour of , a divine attribute ; i mean the immensity and spirituality of the divine nature : you are gone to a church that pretends to be infallible , and yet is infinitely deceived in many particulars , and yet endures no contradiction , and is impatient her children should enquire into any thing her priests obtrude . you are gone from receiving the whole sacrament to receive it but half , from christs institution to a human invention , from scripture to uncertain traditions , and from ancient tradition to new pretences , from prayers which ye understood to prayers which ye understand not , from confidence in god to rely upon creatures , from intire dependance upon inward-acts , to a dangerous temptation of resting too much in outward ministeries in the external work of sacraments and sacramentals . you are gone from a church whose worshipping is simple , christian and apostolical , to a church where mens consciences are loaden with a burden of ceremonies , greater than that in the dayes of the jewish religion ( for the ceremonial of the church of rome is a great book in folio . ) you are gone from a church where you were exhorted to read the word of god , the holy scriptures , from whence you sound instruction , institution , comfort , reproof , a treasure of all excellencies , to a church that seals up that fountain from you , and gives you drink by drops out of such cisterns as they first make and then stain and then reach out : and if it be told you , that some men abuse scripture , it is true , for if your priests had not abused scripture , they could not thus have abused you ; but there is no necessity they should , and you need not unless you list ; any more than you need to abuse the sacrament or decrees of the church , or the messages of your friend , or the letters you receive , or the laws of the land , all which are lyable to be abused by evil persons , but not by good people and modest understandings . it is now become a part of your religion to be ignorant , to walk in blindness , to believe the man that hears your confessions , to hear none but him , not to hear god speaking but by him , and so you are lyable to be abused by him , as he please , without remedy . you are gone from us , where you are only taught to worship god through jesus christ , and now you are taught to worship saints and angels , with a worship at least dangerous and in some things proper to god ; for your church worships the v. mary with burning incense and candles to her , and you give her presents which by the consent of all nations used to be esteemed a worship peculiar to god , and it is the same thing which was condemned in the collyridians , who offered a cake to the v. mary . a candle and a cake make no difference in the worship ; and your joyning god and the saints is like the device of them that fought for king and parliament , the latter destroys the former . to which he subjoynes , that the points of difference between us and the church of rome , are such as do evidently serve the ends of covetousness and ambition in them : and that very many of her doctrines are very ill friends to a good life , and that our religion is incomparably beyond theirs in point of safety : as in point of praying to god alone and without images , relying on god as infallible , which are surely lawful ; but it is at least hugely disputable and not at all certain that any man or society of men can be infallible , that we may put our trust in saints , or worship images , &c. from whence he concludes ; so that unless you mean to preferr a danger before safety , temptation to unholiness before a severe and holy religion , unless you mean to lose the benefit of yours prayers by praying what you perceive not , and the benefit of the sacrament in great degrees by falling from christs institution , and taking half instead of all ; unless you desire to provoke god to jealousie by images , and man to jealousie in professing a religion in which you may in many cases have leave to forfeit your faith and lawful trust ; unless you will choose a catechism without the second commandment , and a faith that grows bigger or lesser as men please , and a hope that in many degrees relyes on men and vain confidences , and a charity that damns all the world but your selves , unless you will do all this , that is , suffer an abuse in your prayers , in the sacrament , in the commandments , in faith , in hope , in charity , in the communion of saints , and your duty to your supream , you must return to the bosome of your mother the church of england , and i doubt not but you will find the comfort of it in all your life , and in the day of your death , and in the day of judgement . thus far that excellent person , and i leave you now to judge between the motives on both sides , as they are laid down by him whom my adversary appeals to , and i must thank him for the kindness of mentioning him against me , without which i had wanted so good a representation of the motives of either side , and so full an answer to the pretences brought for the church of rome . the other motives which he adds of fathers , councils and tradition , he knows are utterly denyed by us ; and i wonder he should insist upon them , since in the matters of our debate , antiquity is so evidently of our side , as against worship of images and saints , against purgatory , transubstantiation , prayers in an unknown tongue , and he thinks it no great matter to allow us a thousand years against communion in one kind ; and yet all this while scripture , fathers , councils , and tradition are all on their side . for the testimony of the present church ; we deny that s. austin speaks of it as of it self sufficient ; and though he did , that concerns not the roman church any more than other parts of the catholick church ; and he may assoon prove tyber to be the ocean , or s. peters at rome to have been before the temple at hierusalem , as prove the roman church to be the catholick church , or the mother of all others . § . . but i must conclude , with the method he prescribes to you for satisfaction from me ; which is not to meddle with particular disputes , ( which we know very well the reason of ) but to call upon me for a catalogue of our grounds , and to bring things to grounds and principles ( as they have learnt to cant of late ) and then , he saith , controversie will soon be at an end . i should be glad to see it so ; notwithstanding his friend i. s. accounts it so noble a science , unless he hath changed his mind , since for so many years now , he hath failed in the defence of his demonstrations . but to satisfie the men of principles , and to let them see we can do more than find fault with their religion , i shall give an account of the faith of protestants in the way of principles ; and of the reason of our rejecting their impositions , which is all we can understand by negative points ; and if we can give an account of the christian faith independently on their churches authority and infallibility it evidently follows that cannot be the foundation of faith ; and so we may be very good christians without having any thing to do with the church of rome . and i know no other answer necessary , not only to this present demand , but to a book called protestants without principles , the falsity of which will appear by what follows . principles agreed on both sides . . that there is a god from whom man , and all other creatures had their being . . that the notion of god doth imply that he is a being absolutely perfect , and therefore justice , goodness , wisdom , and truth must be in him to the highest degree of perfection . . that man receiving his being from god , is thereby bound to obey his will , and consequently is lyable to punishment in case of disobedience . . that in order to mans obeying the will of god , it is necessary that he know what it is ; for which some manifestation of the will of god is necessary , both that man may know what he hath to do , and that god may justly punish him if he do it not . . whatever god reveals to man is infallibly true , and being intended for the rule of mans obedience may be certainly known to be his will. . god cannot act contrary to those essential attributes of justice , wisdom , goodness and truth in any way which he makes choice of , to make known his will unto man by . these thing being agreed on both sides , we are now to inquire into the particular wayes which god hath made choice of for revealing his will to mankind . . an entire obedience to the will of god being agreed , to be the condition of mans happiness no other way of revelation is in it self necessary , to that end , than such whereby man may know what the will of god is . . man being framed a rational creature , capable of reflecting upon himself , may antecedently to any external revelation , certainly know the being of god , and his dependence upon him ; and those things which are naturally pleasing unto him , else there could be no such thing as a law of nature , or any principles of natural religion . . all supernatural and external revelation , must suppose the truth of natural religion ; for unless we be antecedently certain that there is a god , and that we are capable of knowing him , it is impossible to be certain that god hath revealed his will to us by any supernatural means . . nothing ought to be admitted for divine revelation which overthrows the certainty of those principles which must be antecedently supposed to all divine revelation . for that were to overthrow the means whereby we are to judge concerning the truth of any divine revelation . . there can be no other means imagined , whereby we are to judge of the truth of divine revelation , but a faculty in us of discerning truth and falshood in matters proposed to our belief , which if we do not exercise in judging the truth of divine revelation , we must be imposed upon by every thing which pretends to be so . . the pretence of infallibility in any person or society of men , must be judged in the same way , that the truth of a divine revelation is , for that infallibility being challenged by vertue of a supernatural assistance , and for that end to assure men what the will of god is , the same means must be used for the trial of that , as for any other supernatural way of gods making known his will to men . . it being in the power of god to make choice of several wayes of revealing his will to us , we ought not to dispute from the attributes of god the necessity of one particular way to the exclusion of all others , but we ought to enquire what way god himself hath chosen : and whatever he hath done , we are sure cannot be repugnant to infinite justice , wisdome , goodness , and truth . . whatever way is capable of certainly conveying the will of god to us , may be made choice of by him for the means of making known his will in order to the happiness of mankind ; so that no argument can be sufficient a priori to prove , that god cannot choose any particular way to reveal his mind by , but such which evidently proves the insufficiency of that means for conveying the will of god to us . . there are several wayes conceivable by us , how god may make known his will to us , either by immediate voice from heaven , or inward inspiration to every particular person ; or inspiring some to speak personally to others , or assisting them with an infallible spirit in writing such books , which shall contain the will of god for the benefit of distant persons and future ages . . if the will of god cannot be sufficiently declared to men by writing , it must either be because no writing can be intelligible enough for that end , or that it can never be known to be written by men infallibly assisted ; the former is repugnant to common sense , for words are equally capable of being understood , spoken , or written , the latter overthrows the possibility of the scriptures being known to be the word of god. . it is agreed among all christians that although god in the first ages of the world did reveal his mind to men immediately by a voice or secret inspirations , yet afterwards he did communicate his mind to some immediately inspired to write his will in books to be preserved for the benefit of future ages , and particularly that these books of the new testament which we now receive were so written by the apostles and disciples of jesus christ. . such writings having been received by the christian church of the first ages as divine and infallible , and being delivered down as such to us by an universal consent of all ages since , they ought to be owned by us as the certain rule of faith ; whereby we are to judge what the will of god is in order to our salvation , unless it appear with an evidence equal to that whereby we believe those books to be the word of god , that they were never intended for that end , because of their obscurity or imperfection . . although we cannot argue against any particular way of revelation from the necessary attributes of god , yet such a way as writing being made choice of by him , we may justly say , that it is repugnant to the nature of the design , and the wisdom and goodness of god to give infallible assurance to persons in writing his will , for the benefit of mankind , if those writings may not be understood by all persons who sincerely endeavour to know the meaning of them in all such things as are necessary for their salvation . . to suppose the books so written to be imperfect , i. e. that any things necessary to be believed or practised are not contained in them , is either to charge the first author of them with fraud , and not delivering his whole mind , or the writers with insincerity in not setting it down , and the whole christian church of the first ages with folly , in believing the fulness and prefection of the scriptures in order to salvation . . these writings being owned as containing in them the whole will of god so plainly revealed , that no sober enquirer can miss of what is necessary for salvation ; there can be no necessity supposed of any infallible society of men either to attest or explain these writings among christians , any more than there was for some ages before christ of such a body of men among the iews , to attest or explain to them the writings of moses or the prophets . . there can be no more intolerable usurpation upon the faith of christians , than for any person or society of men to pretend to an assistance , as infallible in what they propose as was in christ or his apostles , without giving an equal degree of evidence , that they are so assisted as christ and his apostles did , viz. by miracles as great , publick , and convincing as theirs were , by which i mean , such as are wrought by those very persons who challeng this infallibility , and with a design for the conviction of those who doe not believe it . . nothing can be more absurd than to pretend the necessity of such an infallible commission and assistance to assure us of the truth of these writings , and to interpret them , and at the same time to prove that commission from those writings , from which we are told nothing can be certainly deduced , such an assistance not being supposed ; or to pretend that infallibility in a body of men , is not as lyable to doubts and disputes as in those books from whence only they derive their infallibility . . there can be no hazard to any person in mistaking the meaning of any particular place in those books , supposing he use , the best means for understanding them , comparable to that which every one runs , who believes any person or society of men to be infallible who are not : for in this latter he runs unavoidably into one great errour , and by that may be led into a thousand , but in the former god hath promised either he shall not erre , or he shall not be damned for it . . the assistance which god hath promised to those who sincerely desire to know his will , may give them greater assurance of the truth of what is contained in the bookes of scripture , than it is possible for the greatest infallibility in any other persons to doe , supposing they have not such assurance of their infallibility . . no mans faith can therefore be infallible meerly because the proponent is said to be infallible ; because the nature of assent doth not depend upon the objective infallibility of any thing without us , but is agreeable to the evidence we have of it in our minds ; for assent is not built on the nature of things but their evidence to us . . it is therefore necessary in order to an infallible assent , that every particular person be infallibly assisted in judging of the matters proposed to him to be believed , so that the ground on which a necessity of some external infallible proponent is asserted , must rather make every particular person infallible , if no divine faith can be without an infallible assent , and so renders any other infallibility useless . . if no particular person be infallible in the assent he gives to matters proposed by others to him , then no man can be infallibly sure that the church is infallible ; and so the churches infallibility can signifie nothing to our infallible assurance without an equal infallibility in our selves in the belief of it . . the infallibility of every particular person being not asserted by those , who plead for the infallibility of a church , and the one rendring the other useless ( for if every person be infallible , what need any representative church to be so ) and the infallibility of a church being of no effect , if every person be not infallible in the belief of it , we are farther to inquire what certainty men may have in matters of faith , supposing no external proponent to be infallible . . there are different degrees of certainty to be attained according to the different degrees of evidence , and measure of divine assistance ; but every christian by the use of his reason , and common helps of grace may attain to so great a degree of certainty , from the convincing arguments of the christian religion and authority of the scriptures , that on the same grounds on which men doubt of the truth of them , they may as well doubt of the truth of those things which they judge to be most evident to sense or reason . . no man who firmly assents to any thing as true , can at the same time entertaine any suspition of the falshood of it , for that were to make him certain and uncertain of the same thing : it is therefore absurd to say , that those who are certain of what they believe , may at the same time not know but it may be false , which is an apparent contradiction and overthrowes any faculty in us of judging of truth or falshood . . whatever necessarily proves a thing to be true , doth at the same time prove it impossible to be false ; because it is impossible the same thing should be true and false at the same time . therefore they who assent firmly to the doctrine of the gospel as true , doe thereby declare their belief of the impossibility of the falshood of it . . the nature of certainty doth receive several names , either according to the nature of the proof or the degrees of the assent . thus moral certainty may be so called , either as it is opposed to mathematical evidence , but implying a firme assent upon the highest evidence , that moral things can receive : or as it is opposed to a higher degree of certainty in the same kind ; so moral certainty implies only greater probabilities of one side than the other ; in the former sense we assert the certainty of christian faith to be moral , but not only in the latter . . a christian being thus certain to the highest degree of a firme assent that the scriptures are the word of god , his faith is thereby resolved into the scriptures as into the rule and measure of what he is to believe , as it is into the veracity of god as the ground of his believing what is therein contained . . no christian can be obliged under any pretence of infallibility to believe any thing as a matter of faith , but what was revealed by god himself in that book wherein he believes his will to be contained , and consequently is bound to reject whatsoever is offered to be imposed upon his faith , which hath no foundation in scripture , or is contrary thereto ; which rejection is no making negative articles of faith , but only applying the general grounds of faith to particular instances , as because i believe nothing necessary to salvation , but what is contained in scripture , therefore no such particular things which neither are there nor can be deduced thence . . there can be no better way to prevent mens mistakes in the sense of scripture , ( which men being fallible are subject to ) than the considering the consequence of mistaking in a matter wherein their salvation is concerned : and there can be no sufficient reason given why that may not serve in matters of faith , which god himself hath made use of , as the means to keep men from sin in their lives : unless any imagine that errours in opinion are far more dangerous to mens souls , than a vitious life is , and therefore god is bound to take more care to prevent the one than the other . it followeth that , . there is no necessity at all , or use of an infallible society of men to assure men of the truth of those things , which they may be certain without , and cannot have any greater assurance , supposing such infallibility to be in them . . the infallibility of that society of men , who call themselves the catholick church , must be examined by the same faculties in man , the same rules of tryal , the same motives by which the infallibility of any divine revelation is . . the less convincing the miracles , the more doubtful the marks , the more obscure the sense of either what is called the catholick church or declared by it , the less reason hath any christian to believe upon the account of any who call themselves by the name of the catholick church . . the more absurd any opinions are and repugnant to the first principles of sense and reason , which any church obtrudes upon the faith of men , the greater reason men still have to reject the pretence of infallibility in that church as a grand imposture . . to disown what is so taught by such a church , is not to question the veracity of god , but so firmly to adhere to that , in what he hath revealed in scriptures , that men dare not out of love to their souls reject what is so taught . . though nothing were to be believed as the will of god , but what is by the catholick church declared to be so , yet this doth not at all concern the church of rome , which neither is the catholick church , nor any sound part or member of it . this may suffice to shew the validity of the principles on which the faith of protestants stands , and the weakness of those of the church of rome . from all which it followes , that it can be nothing but willful ignorance , weakness of judgement , strength of prejudice , or some sinful passion , which makes any one forsake the communion of the church of england , to embrace that of the church of rome . the end. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e §. . the necessity of writing in these controversies . §. . the present arts used by our adversaries to gain proselyter . §. . the occasion of this present writing . §. . of the manner and design of the writing . §. . of the charge of idolatry against the church of rome . articl . . homil. part● . p. . dr. iackson original of unbelief , sect. . ch. . defence of the apology , ch . . div . . p. . answer to harding , . articl . p. . art. . p. . p. . defence of the answer to the admonition , tr . . p. . bish. bilson dis● . of christian subjection , part . . p. . p. . p. . p. , &c. dr. fulks confutation of an idolatrous treatise of nicol. sanders . dr. reynolds de idolat . eccles. rom. dr. whitaker c. duraeum , l. . p. . k. iames his works , p. . is , casaub. ep. ad cardin . perron , ad quartam instant . ad tort● librum respons . p. . answer to perron . chapt . p. . bish. abbor against bishop , tom. . p. . whites reply to fisher. p. . dr. field of the church , l. . ch . . p. . bish. ushers sermon before the commons , p. . downam de antichristo . l. . c. , , &c. davenant . deter . quaest . . d. iacksons original of unbelief , sect . . archbish. lauds conference , p. . bell. de sanct . beat . l. . c. . notes for div a -e ep. . ad marcellam . li. de bapt. cont . donat. c. . tract . . in to. sozomen . li. & hist. c. . & niceph. li. . c. . s. leo ser. . de quad. li. contr . epist. fund . notes for div a -e the introduction . of the idolatry of the roman church . of the worship of images . of the meaning of the second commandment . of the reason of the second commandment . isa. . . . . . of the wiser heathens notion of images . theodoret. c. graec. serm. . p. . clem. alexand . strom. . p. . isa. . , . clem. alexand . protrept . p. . strom. . p. . plutarch in numâ . varro apud augustin . de civit. dei l. . c . philo de legat . ad caium p. . eus●bius de prepar . evang. l. . c. . herodot . l . strabo l . diog. laert. prooem . tacit. de morib . german . c. . lucian . de dea syria . init . the reason of this law more clear by the gospel . john . , . morinus in pentatench . samarit . exerc. . s. . c. . act. . 〈◊〉 , . . rom. . . . . v. . . celsus apud origen . l. . p. . euseb. de preparat . evang. l. . c . athanas. c. gent. p. . — . arnob. c. gent. l. . p. . august . tom. . in psal. . maxim. tyrius dissert . . iulian. op . frag . ep . ed. peravii p. . eus●b . prepar . evang. l. . c. . trirant . de christian. expedit . apud sinas , l. . c. . p. . the christian church believed this law immutable . clem. alex. strom. . p. . origen c. cels l. . p. . l. p. . synod . nic. . act. . ep. ad iohan. synad . ad thom. claudiop . ep. ibid. damascen . orthod . sid . l. c. . bellarm. de imag. l. . cap. . of the doctrine of the second council of nice . synod . nicaen . . act. . aquinas summ. p. . q. . art . . vasquez in l. . q. . disp . . c. . sirmond . concil . gall. to. . p. . spelman . con● . tom. . p. . hovedeni annal. p. prior . ad a. d : simeon dunel histor. p. . matth. westmon . ad a. d. . caroli capitut . de non adora●dis imagi●ibus . paris . a. d. . & in goldasti . co●stit . imperial . to. . synod . paris . in supplement . concil . gall. ad a. d. . agobardi opera ed. massoni & balazii . caroli liber de imag. l. . c. . cap. . c. . l. . c. . concil . tom. . p. . tom. . p. . c. . delaland supplem . concil . gall. p. . bellarm. append. ad . lib. de cultu imag. c. . c. . agobardi opera p. . ed. . of the scripture instances of idolatry contrary to the second commandment . p●tav . dogmat . theol. to . l . ● . . s. . c. s. . vas● e● in . thom. disp . . q. . c. . of the distinctions used to excuse this from being idola●ry . aug. c. duas epist pe●ag . l. c. . b. andrews answer to perron p. be●●arm . de imag . l. . ●● . vasquez . . th. disp . . q. . art . . c. . the instances supposed to be parallel answered . notes for div a -e of the adoration of the host. concil trident . sess. . c. . the state of the controversie . joh. . . rubrick after communion . concil . t●● dent . 〈◊〉 c. . no security in the roman church aga●nst idolatry in adoration of the host. greg. de val. de idolol . l. . c. . bell. de sacr. euchar . l. . c. . de incarnat . l. . c. . vasquez . tom. . disp . . c. n. . disput. . c. , . no such motives to believe transubstantiation as the divinity of christ. bellar. de sacr. euch. l. . c. . de christo l. . c. . a mistake doth not excuse from idolatry . coster . enchir contr. c. . de euch. sacram . p. . fisher c. oecolompad . l. . c. . p. ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ) . b. taylors second part of disswasive introduct . in answ. to i s. . way . . part of diss●as . b. . s. . p. . ductor dubitant . b. . c. . p. . p. . the grossest idolatry excusable on the same grounds . aug. prefat . in psal. . to. . p. . p. . aug. c. faust manich. l. . c. . . garcilasso de la vega le conmentaire royal. liv . . c. . of invocation of saints . the fathers arguments against heathen idolatry condemn invocation of saints . iustin. martyr apol. . p. , . theophil . ad autolyc . l. . p. . l. a. p. . breviar . rom. . iul. antw. . s. basil. ad amphiloch . p. . v. aug. c. faust. l . c. . baron . martycol . apr. & iulii . all divine worship given to a cre●ture condemned by the fathers . origen . c. c●ls . l. . p. . p. . l. . p. . p. . i. p . p. . p. . serrar . litan . q. . p. . ambros. in . rom. to. . p. . aug. de civit. dei. l. . c. . . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . the worship of angels condemned . col. . . theod. in coloss . . baron . an. . s. , . iren. l. . c. . orig. c. cels. l. . p. . p. . con●il . laodic . can. . aug. de civit . dei. l. . c. . aug. q. in exod. q. . the common evasions answered . aug. de civit . dei. l. . c. . l. . c. . c. . gen. . . . . isa. . . psal. . . . bell. de sanct. beat . l. . c. . aug. de civit. dei. l. . c. . of the practice of invocation in the church of roms . brev. rom. antw. . p . p. . offic. parv . b. mariae . p. . brev. p. . commun . apostol . p. . . bell. de sanct. beatit . l. . c. . the difference between praying to saints in heaven , and desiring men on earth to pray for us . a●●s . , . acts . , . st. austin no friend to invocation of saints . aug. de civit. dei , l. . c. . l. . . . aug. de bapt . c. don. l. . c. . c. faust. l. . c. . calv. instit. l. . c. . n. . bell. de beatit . sanct . l. . c. . de morib . eccl. cath. c. . confess . l. . cap. . of negative points of faith . notes for div a -e of the sacrament of pen●ance destroying the necessity of a good life . cor. . . diss●asive . p. . ch . ● p. . the doctrine of purgatory takes away the care of a good life . sincerity of devotion hindered by prayers in an unknown tongue . preface to the polyglott bible ▪ . the languag● of prayer , no m●tter of discipline . cor . cor. . , . v. . v. . v. , , , , &c. v. . no universal consent for prayers in ●n unknown tongue . orig. c. col. l. . p . cassandr . consult . art . . lyra 〈◊〉 cor. 〈◊〉 . baron . tom. . a. . n. . walafrid strabo de reb . eccles. c. . of their doctrine of the efficacy of sacraments . gabr. biel sup . canon . miss●e lect . . lit . . bell. de effecta sacram . l. . c. . concil . trident . sess. . can. . can. . this proved to be 〈◊〉 doctrine of the roman church . cassand . consult . art . . arnald . de freq . commun . prefat . sect. . part. . c. . p. . the history of the council of trent , l. . p. . rituale roman . de sacram . ext . unct. lutet . paris . . of their discouraging the reading the scriptures . index libror . prohibit . alexand . . romae . a. d . the arguments against reading the scriptures would have held against the publishing them in a language known to the people . psal. . . psal. . . orlandin . hist. societ . iesu l. . n. . maffeius vit . ignat. l. . c. . the practice of the roman church herein directly contrary to that of the primitive church . pet. . . rom. . . tim ▪ . , . clement . epistol . ad corinth . p. . p. . p. . constit. clement . l. . c. . ignat. ep . ad philadelph . polycarp . ep. ad philipp . p. . ed. usser . clem. alexandr . strom. . p. . tertul. de anim . c. . origen . comment . in matthaeum . p. . comment . in ios. p. . homil. in levit. . basil. in psal. . hieron . prefat . com . in ep . ad ephes. s. chrys. prefat . in epist. ad rom. consil. de stabiliendâ rom. sede . p. . alphons . à castro advers . haer● . l . c. . sixti senens . biblioth . l. . annot. . espencaeus in tit. c. . p. . notes for div a -e the unreasonableness of objecting sects and fanaticism to us , as the effect of reading the scriptures . fanaticism countenanced in the roman church . private revelations pleaded for matters of doctrine . iucas waddi●g us legation , de concept . virg. mariae . pre●at . sect. . tract . . sect. . n. . baron . not . in martyrolog . rom. . decemb. wadding . l. c. sect. . p. ● . revelationes s. bri●ittae . a●tw . . brevi●r . rom. ● . octobr. p. . brev. rom. apr. . p. . raynald . annales ecclesiast . a. d. . n. . raynald . ib● bzov. annales a. d. . n. . revelations contrary to each other approved by the roman church . del : rio disquis . mag. l. . c. . q. . sect. . ioh. francis . picus mirand . de rerum praenot . l. . c. . c. . del rio ib. brigittae revel . l. . c. . salmero in . ad cor. . disp . . baron . annal . a. d. . n. . bell. de purgat . l. . c. . bellarm. de purg. l. . c. . cressy's church-history . l. . c. . biel in cano● . miss●e lect . . bellar. de sa●ram . euchar. l. . c. . bell. de poenit . l . cap. . festivals appointed on tho credit of revelations . legatio de concept . v. mariae sect. . n. . p. . bullar . rom. tom. . p. . cherubini . apud bzov. annal. to. . a. d. . n. . breviar . roman . maij p. . revelations still owned by them . revelations of divine love . ch . . p. . ch. . p. . ch. p. . ch. . p. . ch. . p. . p. . ch. p. . the monastick orders founded on enthusiasm . bellar. de pontif. rom. l. . c. . gregor . dial . l. . bollandi acta sanctorum martii . . not . in . vit . bened. c. . cap. . c. . c. , . c. , . c. . c. , . c. . c. . possevin . a par . v. s. benedict . aquin. sum. . . qu. . art . ● ad . . vasquez in , a. d'sp . . n. . joh. . . chronicon . monast. cassiaens . p. . lut. paris . . ioh. bona de divinâ psalmodia . cap. . s. . petr. damiani vit . s. romoaldi cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . c. . c. . c. . andreas mugnotius de eremo camaldulensi . lib. . pet. damiani vit . s. romualdi c. . launoy de verâ causâ seccssus brunonis in erem●m c. ● p. . launoy ib. p. , , , &c. launoy d● viso simo●is stockii . cap. . the franciscan and dominican orders founded in fanatisism . rainald . annal. eccles. a. d. . n. . bonavent . vit . francisci , c. . sect. . sedulius in elogiis s. franc. bernard . a bustis rosar . p. . serm . . sedul . . iac. de vitriaco hist. occident . c. . rainald . a. . n. . bonav . vit . francis c. . cap. . sect . . cap. . sect . . sect. . sect. . brev. roman . . octob . lect. . cap. . sect . . sect. . sect. . sect. . sect. . possevin . appar . v. franciscus . brigittae revel . l. . c. p. col. . ra●nald . a. d. . n. . wolfii lection . memorab . cent . . p. . the blasphemous enthusiasm of the meadicant fryers . nauc●ur . chronogr . vol. . gen. . p. . spondani angales eccles. a. d. . n . bellarm. chronol . ad a. d. . caesar. bulaeus in histor. unive●s . paris . tom. p. . rigo●d in vita philip● . august . a. d. . eym●ric . dir●ct . inquisit . p. . ● . . f●a●is● . pegna . no● . in direct . p. . pag. . eymeric . direct . inquisit . p. . c. . bulaei hist. universit . paris . to. . s. . p. . matth. paris . hist. ad a. d. . p. . oper. gul. de s. amore. prefat . p , bulaei hist. universit . paris . a. d. . to● . . matth paris , ibid. richerii chron. s●nonens . l. . c . bulaei hist. p. . gul. de s. amore oper . p. . gul. de s. amore de peric . novis . temp . c. . p. . chronicon . nicol. trivetti ad a. d. . matth. paris a. d. . p. . bullar . rom. tom. . alex. . bull. . p. . bulae . p. . the fanaticism of the franciscans afterwards . guido carmelit . de haeres . abb. ioachim & pet. ioh. alphonsus a castro advers . haeres . v. apost . haer . . pegna in direct . inquisit . p. . q. . eymeric . ib. haeres . . brev. rom. . octob. lect. . bonavent . vit . francis . c. . sect. . lud. a paramo de origine inquisit . l. . tit . . c. . n. . tit . . c. . n. . wolfii lect. memor . cent. . p. . wadding . annales minorum ad a. d. . possevin . appar . v. nicol. eymeric . eymeric . dir●ct . inquisit . p. . quaest . . error . . of the doctrines of the spiritual brethren . papir . masson . de episc. urbis , l. . v. ioh. . clementin . l. . tit . . bulaei histor . universit . paris . tom. . p. . p. . b●ll . de po●ti● . rom. l. . 〈◊〉 . fran. pegna in direct . inquis . comment . . gul. ockam compend . error . papae . direct . inq●isit . c. . l. . spondan . annales eccles a. d. . n. . eymeric . p. . q. . alvarus de pla●ctu eccles . l. . c. . tur cremata s●m . l. . c. . part . . bzov. annal . a. d. . n. . s●ondan . annal. a. d. . n. . raynald . annal. a. d. . n. . alvarus l. . c. . p. . 〈◊〉 chronic. sen●nerse l. cap . eym●●● . p. . q. . err . . error . . q. . s. . gerson . oper . to. . p. . pag. . eymeric . p. ● . q. . s. . lud. de paramo de orig . sa●ctae inquis . l. . tit . . cap. . n. . spondan . annal●s a.d. . n. . bulae histor . universit . paris . tom. p. . of the continuance of this sect. platina in vit . clem. . spondan . annales . a.d. . n. . prateolus de haeres . l. v. herman . paramo de orig . inquisit . l. . tit . . c. . v. . direct . inquisit . p. . §. . paramo l . tit . . c n. . pegn . not . in direct p. . q. . bzov. annales a. d. . n. . prateolus de haer . l. . v. dulcinus . turrecremata sum. de eccles. l. . p. . c. . eymeric . p. . q. . prateolus l . n. . spondan . a.d. . n. . raynald . a.d. . n. . naucler . gen. . p. . gaulticri chronol . sec. . c. . of the alumbrado's in spain . spondan . annales . a.d. . n. . lud. de paramo de origine inquisit . l. . tit . . c. . n. . lib . q. . n. , &c. n. . n. . n. . maffeius in vit . ignatii l. . cap. . schiopp . infam . famiani p. . orlandin . hist. societ . iesu l. . n. . tim . . to the . v. the jesuites order founded in fanaticism . maff●ius vit . ignat. l. . c. . ribadene●ra vit . ignat. c. . ribadencira c. . orlandin . hist. l. . ● . . orla●din . hist. l. . n. . maffei●s l. . c. . maffeius l. . c. . c. . orland . l. . n. . n. . n. . ribadeneira c. . orland . l. . n. . n . n. . maff. c. . maff. l. . c. . orland . hist. l. . n. . n. . maffei . l. . c. . orland . l. . n. . n. . maffei . l. . c. . maffei . l. . c. . orlandin . hist. soc. ies. l. . ● . . orland . n. , . n. . maffeius l. . c. . orland . n. . n. . n. . maffeius l. . cap. . orlandin . l ▪ . n. . ribad . n. c. . maff. l. . c. . orland . l. . n. . maff. l. . c. . l. . c. . maff. l. . c. . of the fanatick way of devotion among them . corderii isagog . in mystis . theolog . d●onys . c. . preface to sancta sophia . s. . lud. blo●ii . instit. spirit . cap. . sancta sophia treat . . c. . s. , . treat . . c. . s. , . sancta sophia . cap. . s. . s. . the approbations . pag. . s. . s. . cap. . s. . treat . . sect. . cap. . s. . s , . treat . . sect . cap. . s. . s. . treat . . sect . . s. , . the utmost effect of this way is gross enthusiasm . treat . . sect . . cap. . s. . s. . s. . cap. . s. . sact. . c. . s. . treat . . sect cap . s. . s. . s. . s. . cressy 's preface to sancta sophia . s. . s. . s. . s. . s. . lud. blosii monile spirit . p. . moral practice of iesuits . p . s. . of their fanaticism in resisting authority under a pretence of religion . bellar. de l●i is , l. . c. . recognit . p. . marian. de regis i●stit . l. . c. . de justâ abdicatione hen. . l . c. . philopater c. edictum . elizab. p. . answ. to philan. chap. . p. . answ. to apology . p. . answ. to philan. p. . to . remonstr . hibernor●● . p. . cap . s. . romanstr . hib. p. . c. . art . . . caron . p. . c. . s. . p. . s. amour's iournal part . . ch . . p. . index expurg . alex. . p. . ioh. launoy epistol . par . . pag. . remonstr . hib. p. . c. . p. . cap. . p. . notes for div a -e of the great pretence of unity in the church of rome . history of romish usurpations by hen. foulis . bell. de pontif. r. l. . c. . consilium greg. . exhibitum per mich. lonigum . a. d. . aphorismi de statu ecclesiae rest aurando per mich. lonigum . of the disturbances of the christian world under the pretence of the popes authority . onuphr . an●ot . in platin. vit . constant. sigonius de regno italiae . l. . a. d. . naucler . chro●o● . gen. . baron . annales eccles. a. . ton . . chronicon . sigeberti ad a. . otto frising . l. . c. . urspergens . chron. ad a. . hier. rubei histor . raven . l. . p. . hadr. vales . rerum francic . lib. . tom . . p. . sigon . de regno ital. l. . ad a. d. . papir . massonus de episcop . urbis . l. . p. . vales. tom . . p. . platina in gregor . . sirmondi concil . gallic . tom. . p. . otto frising . chron. l. . c. . papir . masson . annal. franc. l. . p. . sabellic . enead . . l. blond . decad . . lib. . conci●or . antiq. galliae s●pplement . p. . a. d. . papir . masson . annales franc. l. . p. . sigon de reg . ital. l. . a. . sermond . concil . tom. . p. . blond . decad . . l. . platin. in steph. . adelmus in franc. annal . ad a. . b●ondus ib. platina in stephan . . platina in stephan . . de translat . imp. rom. l. . c. . platin. in steph. . blond . decad . . lib. . the disturbances made by popes in the new empire . annales eccles. ad a. d. . p. aemilius in hist or franc. p. . nithard . hist. l. . à petr p'thae . ed. in annal. franc. vita ludovici pii à pithaeo ib. p. . papir . masson . in vit . greg. . sigeberti chron. a ▪ d. . hincmar . rhemens . epistol . p. . ed. cord. of the quarrels of greg. . with the emperour and other christian princes . urspergens . chronic. p. . marg . otto frising . l. . c. . petr. damiani epistol . l. . c● . . l. . epist. ad card. ep. . sigonius de regno italico l. . in hen. . a. d. . lambert . schasnabu●g . histor . german . a. d. . p. sigebert . gembloc . chron. a. . matt. paris in gul. . aventin . annal. boior . l. . p. . constitut. imperial . tom . p. . baron . annales eccles. a. d. . ● . . baron . ad a. . n. . ad a. d. . n. . . n. ● . helmoldi chron. slavorum l. . cap. . abbas ursperae . ad a. d. . sigebert . chron. ad a. d. . florent . wigorn. ad a. . matt. paris histor. anglic. a. . aventin . annal. boior . l. . p. . sentent . cardin . baronii super excomun . venet. sigon . de regno ital. l. . ad a. . baron . annal . ad a. d. . n. . id. ad a. n. . id. ib. n. . id. ad . a. . n. . id. a. . n. . mart. cromer . de gestis polon . l. . ad sin . baron . ad a. d. . n. . id. ad a. d. . n. . id. a. . n. . eadvier . prefat . ad hist. novorum . of the quarrels of his successours . onuphrius in vit . greg . sicebrct . g●mblac ad a. d. . helmold . chron. slav. l. . c ▪ . urspergens . cirron . p. . baron . annales ad a. d. . n. . aventin . annal. boior . l. . p. . baron . a. d. . n. . sigon . de regno ital. l. . a. . bar. ad a. d. . n. . constitut. imper. tom. . p. . abbas ursperg . chron. p. . ursperg . ib. baron . ad a. d. . n. . avent . annal●s boior . l. . p. . constitut. imp●r . tom. . p. . baron ad a. . n. . &c. id ad a. d. . n. . id ad a. d. n. . aventin . annal boior . l. . p. . siceberti chronic. ad a. d. . of the schisms in the roman church . bellarm. de rotis eccles. l. c. de eccles. mil●t . l c. . onuphr . annot in plat. vit formosi . victorel add . ad cia●co● . de vit . pontif . baron . annal . ad a. d. n. , . papir . masson . de episcop u. b. l. . p. . morinus de sacris eccles . ordinat . par p. . baron . annal . ad a d. . n. , . platina in vit . steph. . ad. a. d. . n. . n. . baron . a. . n. . a. d. . n. . a. d. . n. . luitprand . hist. l. . cap. . baron . ad a. . n. . baron . a. d. . n. . n. , , &c. n. . a. . n : . baron . an ▪ ad a. d. . n. . a●hors . ciaccoa . vit . pontif in clem. . of the differences in the roman church about matters of government . gregor . l. . epist. . carol● . m. capitular . l. . n. . bernard . epist. ad hen. senon . de consider . l. . c. ivo car●ot . ep ▪ . & . petri blesens . ep. . de periculis noviss . temporum . p. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . of the insufficiency of the popes authority for ending this controversie . clementin . l. . c. . gregor . decret . epistol . l . n. . c. , . matth. paris . a. d. . p. . petrus de vineis epistol . lib. . ep . . seculum quintum universit . paris . p. . d'attichy hist. cardinal . tom . vit . nibaldi . rainald . ad a. d. . n. . boulay . histor . universit . paris . tom . . p. . id. p. . meyer . annales flandr . l. . ad a. d. . extravagant . commun . l. . tit . . c. . wadding . annal. minorum ad a. d. . rich. armach . defensio curat . bulae . hist. universit . paris tom . p. . walsingham hist. angl. in adv. . p. . ioh. wickliffe against the orders of fryers . c. . p. . of the differences between the regulars and seculars in england . watsons reply to parsons his libel . p. . petri aurelii opera tom . . p. . of the jesuits particular opposition to bishops and their authority . moral practice of the jesuits . p. . bull. rom. tom. . p. . bull. . greg. . collection of tract . p. . s. amours iournal . p. . ch . . index alex . a.d. . s. amours iournal . p. . ch . . of their differences in matters of doctrine . greg. de valent. analys . fid●i l. . c. . . the insufficiency of the popes authority for ending these differences . s. amours iournal p. . ch . . iournal p. . ch . . — p. . ch . . iournal p. . ch . . iournal p. . ch . 〈◊〉 . ch● 〈◊〉 the insufficiency of councils to end controversies . history of the council of trent . l. . p. . p. . their differences are in matters of faith . their differences not confined to their schools . scot. in . lib. sent . dist . . q. . n. . apolog. p●o vitâ & morte . ioh. d●ns scoti . walsin●ham hist. circa a. d. . sext. seculum universit . paris . p. . v. mey●r . a●●al . fla●dr . l. . a. . cavelli rosar . b. mariae test . . s●cul . wadding . legatio de concept . sect. . tract . . s. . moral practice of the jesuits . pag. . notes for div a -e the misinterpreting scripture doth not hinder its being a rule of faith . s. august . tract . . in iob. cap. . of their superstitious observations . of indulgences . the practice of indulgences . baron . ad a. d. . n. . gr●g . . l . ep. . leo casin . hist. l. . c. . gul. tyrius l. . hist. orient . will. malms . l. . c. . ord●r . vitalis hist. eccl●s ad a. d. . bernard . exhort . ad milit . t●mpli c. . morinus de sacram poenit. l. . c. . cap. . baron . ad a. d. . n. . id. ad . a d. . n. . id. ad . a d . n. . id. ad . a d. . n. . ad a. d. . n. . bzov. ad a. d. . . id. a. d. . n . ad a. d. . n. . morinus de poenitent . l. . c. . baron . ad a. d. . extravag . commun . l. . tit . . c. . bzov. ad a. d. . n . bell. de i●d●l . l. . c. . gobelin . pe●so●a cos●odr●aet . . c. . of i●d●lgences at rome . hen. foulis preface to the history of romish usurpations . bell. de indulg . l. . c. . on phrius de . urbis eccles●●s . caesar raspon de basilicâ latera●ensi . l. . c. . p. . raspon . de basil. ●ater . l . c. . of indulgences for saying some prayers . horae b. v. mariae . s●cundum usum sarum . p. . pag. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . what opinion hath been had of indulgences in the roman church . durand . in sentent . l. . dist . . q. . ioh. major in sent . l. . dist . . cajetan opusc . de indulgent . init . soto in sent . l. . dist . . greg. de valent. de indulg . c ▪ . estius in sent . l. . dist . ▪ ● . . morinus de paenitent . l. ▪ c. . ● . . r●ff . c. luther art . . polyd. v●rgil . de iavent . l. . c. . al●hons . à castro adve●s . haeres . l. . v. indulg . alphons l. . c. . bellar. de am●ss●gratiae l. . c. . resp . ad ●bj . . aquin. s●pplement . sum . q. . art . bonavent . in sent . l. . dist . . q. . greg. de valent. de indulg . c. . apud . morin . l. . c. . n. . ib. n. . guil. altissiodor . sum l. . tract . . c. . morin . l. . c. . n. greg. de valent. de indulg . c. . albert. m. in sent . l. . dist . . art . . petrarch . ep . . gob●l persona●aet . . c. . paul. largii chronic. citizens . ad a. d. . u●sp●rg . chron. p. . platina in bonif. . ursperg . chron. p. . gerson . de indulg . co●sid . . bull. rom. tom. . sixt. . co●st . . s●rrar . rerum mo●untiac . l. . c. . wesseli groning . oper . p. , &c. iac. angular . in ep . wesseli . bell. de indulg . l. . c. . of bellarmins prudent christian . the absurdity of the doctrine of indulgences , and the churches treasure . cassander in consult . art . . barns cathol . rom. pacific . s. . white de medio anim . statudem . . clem. . const . . to. . bull. u●ban . const . . to. . the tendency of indulgences to hinder devotion . d●●and . in sentent . l. . dist . . q. . polyd , virg . de invent . rer . l. . c. . onus ecc●● . c. . . . centum gravamina act . . . of communion in one kind . vindication of arch-bishop land. part. . ch . . . . . . . of the popes power of dispensing . the ill consequence of asserting marriage in a priest to be worse than fornication . cor. . . cyprian . ep . . august . de san. virginit . . c. . epiph. c. haer . . hieronym . ep adv . demetriad . jewels defense of the apology part . . p. . ● tim. . . v. . bibliotheca furis canoni●i . p. . august . de bono viduitat . c. . . . of the uncertainty of faith in the roman church . vindication of arch-bishop laud part . . ch . . . . . c. . sect . . the case of a revolter and a bred papist compared . the motives of the roman church considered . preface to the second part of his dissuasive . polemical discourses p . &c. the saith of protestants reduced to principles . great is diana of the ephesians, or, the original of idolatry together with the politick institution of the gentiles sacrifices. blount, charles, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) great is diana of the ephesians, or, the original of idolatry together with the politick institution of the gentiles sacrifices. blount, charles, - . [ ], p. [s.n.], london : . written by charles blount. cf. nuc pre- . reproduction of original in british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng idols and images -- worship. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - andrew kuster sampled and proofread - andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion great is diana of the ephesians : or , the original of idolatry , together with the politick institution of the gentiles sacrifices . cum sis ipse nocens moritur cur victima pro te ? stultitia est morte alterius sperare salutem . london , printed in the year . the preface . self-love , which like fire covets to resolve all things into it self , makes men they care not what villany or what impiety they act , so it may but conduce to their own advantage . and from hence it was , that the heathens turned religion into a trade , wherein the most gainful was their sacrifices : mendicantes vicatim deos ducunt ; a god was then as fit an object for charity , as now a broken arm , or a wooden leg : nor did they consider their gods any otherwise , than for their own interest . now as musick hath that sympathetick power , to heighten that passion which is most predominant in mens natures , whether of mirth or melancholy ; so likewise religion if it meets with good nature , it makes it better , but if with bad nature , it makes it worse : not that true religion is here to be blamed , but only those ill constitutions , wherein the most sacred instructions turn sower . obdurate hearts are ever most subject to atheism , whereas softer natures are ever more inclined to superstition ; in which latter , devotion is ever more prevalent than judgment : for as philosophy applies it self to reason , so doth religion to ` passion ; and therefore none are so successful , as those fanatical sellers of words , who are most quarrelsom with their pulpits : whereby they have a double advantage ; first , they appear more zealous to the world ; and secondly , the nonsense they deliver is not so easily discerned by the credulous multitude , who are ever ravished with the tone and noise , and praise not the lord but through the nose . the immortal god is of too sublime a nature , to be comprehended by us mortals ; wherefore no men are so great atheists , as those who make a livelihood by telling lyes of his most sacred majesty : converso in precium deo. how many religions are there in the world , which ( though of contrary principles to one another ) yet all pretend themselves derived from one and the same infinite being ! therefore he who would be of the most excellent faith , must try all , and then ( as st. paul advises ) hold fast that which is best . he should do by the several religions , as potamon of alexandria did by the many sects of philosophy , elect what was good out of each , and relinquish the bad . now most religions ( excepting ours ) being tainted with the interest of the clergy , he must examine and consider them accordingly : for if a porter should come and tell me , he had brought me such a letter from my father , and the first part of the letter should teach obedience to parents , but the latter part of it should command me to give the said porter half my estate ; in this case i should ( notwithstanding the testimony of his brother porters ) without some further demonstration , believe the letter a counterfeit ; as also that the first part of it , which taught obedience , was only to make way for the second and principal clause , viz. the giving the porter money . now most of the heathen priests were such proters , and their arcana divinitatis but ridiculous nothings , wherewith they deluded the vulgar . as i have heard of a country-alehouse-keeper , who being a crafty knave , devised this trick to get a ready vent for his liquor : he gave out a report at several market-towns that he had taken a monstrous beast in such a wood ; whereupon many country-people flock'd into see this wonderful beast , which out of policy he kept in the dark corner of a room , withall advising the people not to approach too near him , for fear of danger : but this not satisfying the curiosity of one of the clowns , who had drank higher than the rest , he runs into this monster , unties him , and brings him out into the light ; where this creature ( which had occasion'd so many lyes , quarrels and disputes about the nature of him , whilst he remain'd in the dark ) proved after all , to be nothing but a little cur-dog in a doublet : partusiunt montes , nascetur ridiculus mus . however , the man had his design in selling off his liquor . such were the mysteries of the ancient heathenish religions , and what i have here written concerns them only : for when christ came into the world , he deliver'd a doctrine so pious , just , and necessary , that ( even in its infancy ) its own merits supported it , without the assistance of princes or grandees . what is more reasonable than to forbear those lusts which will ruine us both here and hereafter ? or who but a mad-man would condemn that law for unjust , which prohibits him from murdering himself ? and christ doth no more . now if the law be good , what must the law-giver be ? for such as the fruit is , such must the tree be also . some have even among the he athens been reported to have wrought miracles , as apollonius tyanaeus ; others have deliver'd good doctrines , as plato , seneca , epictetus , &c. but what one man ever did both to that persection , as christ did ? many in all religions have dyed to justifie their opinions ; but who like the primitive christians , ever dyed to justifie the truth of miracles , which they beheld with their own eyes ? but this is unnecessary , for that i write not to heathens , but christians . the general decay of piety , hath in most religions what soever proceeded from the exemplary viciousness of their clergy ; ( though perhaps less in ours , than in others ; for i am unwilling to raise an unjust outery against a good air , because some few debauch'd persons dye in it . ) should a physician prohibit all mankind from wine , as poysonous , and presently he himself should drink some , i had reason to question the truth of his former opinion , and should have cause to believe , that he coveted to monopolize the best wines for himself . what heathen priests could with any confidence prohibit murther , when they themselves did safrequently sacrifice poor innocent men in their temples ? with what justice could that priest who assisted at the rape of paulina in the temple of apis , proscribe adulteries or rapes ? if shepherds go themselves astray , how should their sheep ere find the way ? if he that teaches , is to learn , how should the scholar truth discern ? vale. the original of idolatry , together with the politick institution of the gentiles sacrifices . the proem . a discourse concerning heathen religions in general , were certainly a vast undertaking , and vain ; it being too immense a labour for any one man , either by reading , sufficiently to comprehend the ancient idolatry , or by travel through both the indies to discern that of this age. nor would it be less vain , if possible to be attain'd : for all superstitions are to the people but like several sports to children , which varying in their several seasons , yield them pretty entertainment for the time , and when grown out of request , deserve no further consideration , but are still supplanted by new ones to the same purpose . therefore to abbreviate my undertaking , after having touched a little upon the original of idolatry , i do in the rest of this discourse confine my self to one part of their superstition , viz. their sacrifices , and more especially their sanguinary ones , as being the most horrid and bruitish of all others : also in them i observe only their seeming rational and politick fundamentals , without mentioning the sacerdotal particulars in the celebration of their fantastical ceremonies ; which are innumerable , though in effect but like the ribbons on a hobby-horse . now if any hypocrite to glorifie his own zeal , should pretend that a discourse of this nature does through the heathen sacrifices , reproach those of moses , which resembled them but in outward appearance , he must receive himself from that error , if he rightly apprehends the difference : for the one justifies his institutions as directed to the true god , and ordain'd as typical by his appointment ; whereas the other ( viz. those of the heathen ) had neither of these qualifications , and therefore no more ought to be spared for their resemblance to those of the jews , than a criminal ought to be pardoned for wearing the same coloured garments with the judge . moreover , for the further justification of this treatise , i have the holy scriptures for my president , wherein we may often find recorded the idolatry of the ancient heathens , viz. of such as sacrificed to baal , and offer'd up cakes to the queen of heaven : therefore all further apologies i shall decline , as unnecessary in so brief a narrative . sect. i. before religion , that is to say , sacrifices , rites , ceremonies , pretended revelations , and the like , were invented amongst the heathens , there was no worship of god but in a rational way , whereof the philosophers pretending to be masters , did to this end , not only teach virtue and piety , but were also themselves great examples of it in their lives and conversations ; whom the people chiefly follow'd , till they were seduced by their crafty and covetous sacerdotal order ; who , instead of the said virtue and piety , introduced fables and fictions of their own coining ; perswading the vulgar , that as men could not by any natural abilities of their own , know the best manner of serving god , so it was necessary that he should reveal the same to his priests in some extraordinary manner , for the better instruction of the people . whereupon pretermitting the doctrines of piety and goodness for the most part , they introduced a religious worship of their own moulding , which amused and suspended mens minds in great part , and at last made the people relie so much upon them , that they neglected their proper duties , consisting chiefly in the sacrifices , expiations , and lustrations of their priests ; who finding they got more by the sins and ignorance of the common people , than by their virtue and knowledge , made divers things sins which otherwise were but indifferent , especially those things which mens natures could with the most difficulty resist : which observation produced this ingenious copy of verses from a modern author , no less eminent for his wit , than for his quality . oh wearisom condition of humanity ! born under one law , to another bound : vainly begot , and yet forbidden vanity , created sick , commanded to be sound . what meaneth nature by these divers laws ? passion and reason self-division cause . is it the mark or majesty of power to make offences that it may forgive ? nature her self , doth her own self deslower , to hate those errors she her self doth give : for how should man think that he may not do , if nature did not fail and punish too ? tyrant to others , to her self unjust , only commands things difficult and hard : forbids us all things which it knows is lust , makes easie pains , unpossible reward . if nature did not take delight in blood , she would have made more easie way to good . we that are bound by vows and by promotion , with pomp of holy sacrifice and rites , to teach belief in good and still devotion , to preach of heavens wonders , and delights ; yet when each of us in his own heart looks , he finds the god there unlike his books . they forbad some meats as unclean , which yet were wholsom ; commanding others to be used , which yet must be offer'd or sacrificed , that so they might have their parts ; allotting some days to labour , and others to idleness : of all which , and many more conspicuous in pomp and ceremony , they constituted themselves the patrons and procurers . to whom no men were so odious as your incredulous honest men ; for if a man were incredulous and vicious , that was the greater honour to the credulous party ; or if a man were credulous and vicious , that did not any more reflect upon their religion , than one man's being hang'd for dishonesty , scandalizes a government ; besides they might pretend his faith was never sincere . but he that led an honest virtuous life , without any faith for their supersticions , he was the only person odious unto them , as a person that demonstrated unto the world how unnecessary the priests and their doctrines were to the propagation of virtue . the philosophers had their extravagancies in natural , but they all agreed in moral philosophy ; nor was virtue any where better delineated , than by those ancient philosophers , plato , aristotle , seneca , plutarch , epictetus , &c. in so much that hyerophantae , or teachers of holy doctrine , was a name anciently and primitively given to philosophers . sit pura mente colendus : a pure undefiled spirit is the only sacrifice which philosophy commands them to offer unto god. but as that taught the knowledge of god in his works , and a rational way to serve him , so the doctrines of their priests introduced not only impertinent , but also absurd and impious tenents concerning god and religion , withdrawing them as well from the use of their reason , as from the study of truth : not allowing them any knowledge of god , or religious worship , but what themselves taught . nay they betray'd the people into the adoration of many gods , because thereby they acquired to themselves much greater advantages by adoring many deities , and introducing several worships of them , than they could have expected from the single worship of one supreme god. all which serves but to confirm the verity of that epigram , vt melius possis fallere , sume togam ; this sacerdotal villany was well known to diogenes , as we may learn from the answer he made to the priest who came to convert him to be of his order , in hopes of elizium : wilt thou ( saith diogenes ) have me to believe that these famous men agesilaus and epimanondas shall be miserable , and that thou who art but an ass , and doest nothing of any worth , shalt be happy only because thou art a priest ? so contemptible was their profession in that wise man's opinion . but of this more hereafter . ii. the primitive institution of idolatry receiv'd its birth from princes , at whose charge it was afterwards educated by ecclesiasticks ; the one made the idol , and the other ordain'd the worship of it . and this we may learn from the book of the wisdom of solomon , wherein it is said , that the father made the image of the deceased son , and the son of the dead father . thus ninus after the death of his father nimrod , worshipp'd him by the name of bel , or belus , which in the punick tongue signifies god : ( from whence i conceive that errour of many historians does proceed , who hearing of a nimrod that after his death was adored by the name of belus , presently misapprehended them to be two several persons , who were really but one under two several names : and therefore we see africanus begins his chronicle with belus . ) now the use of this adoration was to breed a veneration in the common people , not only for the prince deceased , but likewise for all his posterity , as men of the jupitrean race . this idol being therefore at first worshipp'd only in commemoration of some hero , or gallant person , as his effigies , grew in time to be by posterity revered as a god ; and as his courage or prudence in his life-time , was conducive to the grandeur and glory of his subjects , so they thought being dead , he was no less able to assist them : with which expectation they paid frequent vows , prayers and sacrifices unto him , such as were ordain'd by their priests . iii. now idolatry being thus instituted by the civil power , the ecclesiastick was left to build upon that foundation , which presented them with a fit opportunity to introduce those rites and ceremonies , as might render them necessary in the performance of the same . for as men who drink healths , do it more for love of the liquor , than for love of the party whose health they drink ; so did the heathen clergy , under pretence of wishing well to others , enrich and advantage themselves : they not being like the pastors of the christian church , who ( according to christ's rule ) ought to be like sheep amongst wolves ; whereas the others were rather like wolves among sheep . therefore we see with how great malice and violence they persecuted all such as opposed their impious doctrines , when poor socrates could not escape with his life , only because he preach'd up the belief of one supreme god : from whence we may observe , that as pity is less culpable than malice , so in superstition is incredulity less mischievous than credulity ; the incredulous only pitying the credulous , whereas the credulous always envy the incredulous . iv. now whenever these priests wanted wit to delude the vulgar , with ambiguous answers of their own inventions , they repair'd to the temples of their gods , and there lay all that night ; telling the people at their return , how being half asleep and half awake , their god spake and reveal'd such and such things , which they were commanded again to deliver unto the people for their satisfaction , when any business of importance occurr'd in the commonwealth ; speaking therein many times not so much their own sense , as the sense of the magistrate , where there was occasion to abuse the people into any belief , that might relate to some publick good : in all which cases the magistrate seem'd first to believe them . also they had certain books , which with much solemnity were consulted upon emergent occasions ; such were the apollinis libri , as also the sybillina oracula , which tarquinius bought at so high a rate , and afterwards depositing them in the temple of jupiter capitolinus , might perhaps be there burnt together with the said temple in scylla's time . the hetrusci had likewise their books of natural predictions call'd hauruspicini , fulgurales , & rituales ; as also the romans had theirs call'd augurales libri , wherein was contain'd most of their religious worship . v. the first idolatry is thought to have come from aegypt , and that the aegyptians in all probability began their religious worship from the sun , or at least from the whole machine of heaven . the next to the aegyptians were the hetrusci , who proved their doctrine by antiquity and universality , as also by predictious . but the most ancient religion next to the aegyptian and hetruscan , was that of the druyds , who were heretofore the priests of france , germany , and some parts of england . the school of these druyds flourish'd within less than one hundred years after the phoenicians ; and were destroyed , together with their religious worship , by the emperor tiberius . these druyds ( besides some opinions they held in common with the other gentiles , concerning worship due to the heavens , planets , and stars ) took certain observations from oaks , galls , and misletow , for their prognostication of the ensuing year . the bardi were a distinct colledge in england from the druyds ; they had little of the philosopher or vaticinator in them . the brachmans were ancient philosophers and priests in the indies , and continue so to this day ; they hold the transmigration of souls with pythagoras , which opinion ( as both apian and clemens affirm ) he took from the jews , and was therefore ( say they ) circumcised after their manner . the gymnosophists were an ancient sect of philosophy and divinity amongst the aethiopians . the persians following zoroaster , acknowledged duplex principium as the aegyptians did ; worshipping the sun above , and the fire beneath : they had anciently their wise men , or magi . the thracians communicated many of their rites and ceremonies to the grecians . the scythians and getes had certain priests and philosophers instituted according to the manner of zamolxis ; who travelling into aegypt , brought home with him some of their doctrines and ceremonies . the ancient roman priests took many of their laws and ceremonies from the hetrosci . the germans and celtes had their priests which were called semnothei . the goths had their priests call'd parabuscei . and the africans their philosophers and priests call'd athantrei , lybici , & hispani . now in all these several sects there were not any two that agreed exactly in their doctrines , although the fundamental design of all was the same , viz. the sharing of the sheep ; about which they did frequently quarrel with one another , in so much that one of the ancients said , he would avoid all controverted points , until the priests were agreed amongst themselves . vi. there is nothing does more endanger religion , than oblivion : therefore so long as jupiter was preach'd up at all , they did not much concern themselves under what several names , or several kinds of adoration they worshipp'd him ; such kind of disputes being but like a quarrel between little children , who having got one joynted-baby amongst them , fall together by the ears about the naming and dressing of it . for heresies in religion , are but like ivy-trees , which though at first they rend and cleave the walls whereunto they grow , yet afterwards serve to uphold and support the same . also the magistrates did frequently connive at such heresies , because they found the authority of religion so prevalent in mens minds , that their clergy when well united among themselves , did oftentimes contest with the secular power ; which grew so dangerous , that they were contented to wink at the many divisions and absurdities amongst them : ne sacra plus possent , quam leges . the chief and most eminent office amongst the romans , was that of the augurs : the veneration and honour given unto them was so great , that they were look'd upon not only as the gods interpreters , but also as messengers and agents betwixt them and mankind . besides , they were ever advanced to the senate , and the rather , as is conceiv'd , because from the first foundation of rome , until the change of the government , kings were augurs , as not thinking it safe to disjoyn from the regal power a discipline so full of authority , as was that of an augur : who were so highly esteem'd among the ancients , that no magistrate was chosen , nor business of importance done , till they were first consulted : those who to empire by dark paths aspire , still plead a call to what they most desire . thus romulus and numa could receive their scepters only from the augurs hands , as titus livy informs us . vii . the heathen priests thinking it dangerous to teach any way to god which men might go by themselves , without further guiding and directing , ( like musicians who are unwilling to learn their scholars to play by notes , lest they might grow able to improve themselves without a master ) did not as our christian pastors do , furnish the people with a record of their gods commands , whereby they might walk themselves without any other assistance ; but on the contrary they instituted lustrations , expiations , and the like , which none but themselves could execute , and all was only to render the clergy absolutely necessary to the people . the original of sacrifices seems to be as ancient as religion it self : for no sooner had men found out that there was a god , but priests stept up and said , that this god had taught them in what manner he would be worshipp'd . as religion therefore seems to have began most anciently in the eastern parts , or as some will have it in aegypt ; so did sacrifices , which from thence were propagated to greece , italy , and other remoter parts . the number of sacrifices ( says a learned author ) were among the aegyptians reckon'd to be , which without all question were multiplied by the priests of several countries , where the said aegyptian sacrifices were receiv'd . but what a madness was this , to think to flatter the divinity with inhumanity ? to content the divine goodness with the affliction of his creatures , and to satisfie the justice of god with cruelty ? a superstitious man serveth god out of fear , whereas the truly religious serves him out of love . superstition suffereth neither god nor man to live at rest , as evidently appears by these heathen sacrifices . what could be more sottish or irrational , than to think that the slaughter of a poor innocent creature , ( who follow'd the simplicity of his own nature , without ever offending god ) should be so grateful to the deity , as thereby we might expiate our sins , and render a sufficient attonement for the most execrable villanies of mankind ? as if the almighty justice could be no otherwise appeas'd for the errors of the wicked , but by the sufferings of the innocent . now as sacrifices were the most ancient and universal , so the greatest and most mysterious fourbs that ever were invented or imposed upon mankind . what have sacrifices to do with sins ? could none but their unenlightned priests make peace between god and man , when sins were committed ? was there no address to be made to the divine majesty , but by their intercession ? were they the courtiers of heaven , and must they be first bribed before men could receive a pardon for their sins ? an inward and hearty repentance avail'd nothing amongst them . neither can the heathens be excused by saying , that at the same time when sacrifices were offer'd , they might repent ; for it doth so little appear that they commanded repentance , as we can hardly find any mention thereof in their religious worship ; however we may hope that god did work it in some of their hearts : for we find in plato and other philosophers , sorrow for sin often enjoyn'd ; and we may read among the septem sapientes this holy precept , quod tibi fieri non vis , alteri ne feceris , which gives a brave entrance into the christian philosophy , as it stands recorded in holy writ . but this they ow'd to their philosophy , and not theology . viii . the stupidity of these heathen sacrifices are sufficiently already exploded by lucian , arnobius , and others : the first condemning them as ridiculous , the latter as impious ; for god will be serv'd in spirit , and that which is outwardly done , is rather to glorifie our selves , than god. yet however , as monstrous as their doctrines and sacrifices appear , they have been the chief support of the gentiles devotion for many thousand years , and in some nations continue to this day . perhaps melancholly men might at first light upon this frenzy , by observing how nature had inevitably framed all creatures to live by devouring and destroying one another ; a man eats not one morsel , but he destroys an animal or vegetable life , or at least prevents them from attaining that life , which otherwise they would have enjoy'd . nay , we cannot walk one step , but probably we crush many insects creeping under our feet ; and the same happens to other creatures : the life of each being by nature made predatory upon others . torva leoena lupum sequitur lupus ipse capellam ; florentem cytisum sequitur lasciva capella ▪ virg. ecclog . upon this consideration aesop's woolf ( being touch'd in conscience for the many murders he had committed ) vow'd never more to eat flesh , till being almost famish'd , and espying a hog in a puddle , he was forced by an interpretation wiser than his vow , to suppose the hog a fish , and so by devouring it , to save himself from starving . it was also found by experience , how many millions of violent accidents were ever ready at hand to destroy all things that had life in them , whereas preservatives were rarely to be met with : nor could the very best nourishment or physick reprieve life any considerable time , and that also ever atended with some mischievous quality enclining towards death ; wherefore but like a small parenthesis , intervening a long discourse : nor was the longest estate of life above a moment , compared with that of death , which is for ever irrecoverable . also the sickness of one man does often infect others , and extends to the destruction of many thousands : whereas the health of the soundest body upon earth , does not diffuse it self to the good of any but it self . ix . so that by these , and such like sinister observations , the destruction of things in being appear'd to them to be more grateful to heaven , than their preservation : whereupon men raised unjust out-cries against the miserable condition of humane life , laying that fault upon the deity , which did proceed only from themselves ; and by this means fell to an unworthy opinion of cruelty in god : and therefore we see the heathens for three or four eminent joves , had many more vejoves , or mischievous supposed deities . nay , they erected altars to most diseases and vices , in hopes thereby to divert their infection from the people : as at this day many of the indians do much more worship and consult the devil , for fear of mischief , than they do the good spirit which governs the world. but if it were possible for wise and virtuous men to believe , that the divine power delights in the slaughter and destruction of harmless creatures which it self hath made , they might perhaps suppose it to proceed , not out of cruelty , but rather as pleas'd to have them by a quick passage withdrawn from the sufferings and lingring decays of long life , to be suddenly establish'd in an everlasting undisturb'd peace and indolency ; or rather , if from our state of ignorance it were possible to interpret heaven , we might imagine , that it has made all creatures unavoidably to destroy one another ; in as much as that power which governs the universe , does perhaps contrive the preservation and flourishing estate thereof in a proportion as far exceeding its regard of particulars , as the whole globe of the earth exceeds the smallest sand upon the sea-shore . and as for particular individuals , corruptio unius est generatio alterius ; whereby it comes to pass , that not only their life , but even their death , helps to renew the world , and so tends to its continuation and prosperity . from hence now peradventure men of airy fancies might conceit , some reason why in mankind and all other sublunarie things , when any one lasts longer than is ordinary for others of its kind to do , it is usually punish'd with deformity and other decays , for retarding ( as much as in it lies ) that measure of the worlds renovation which would by its more early change have accru'd thereunto . these thoughts unrectify'd , have even among christians caused some hereticks to think , that god has from the first creation , infus'd into all perishable things two internal principles , the one of life and preservation , the other of death and destruction ; also that according as either of these are more or less agreeably entertain'd , so is the creature more or less vigorous and durable . or peradventure they might more appositely have observed the rise and fall of things represented in the rotation of wheels in a chariot , whose several spoaks are rais'd up , and cast down by one and the same mover , at one and the same time , without any separate assistant : for so they thought that infinite power , wisdom , and goodness which is all in all , moves things by his immediate presence and inoperation , without any need of aristotle's intelligences , plato's daemons , or other imaginary powers subservient : nor that it merits a bad censure for destroying particulars , it being for an universal good . x. now because the generality of men are not thus speculative or philosophical in their actions , but rather crafty and politick , as designing to themselves power amongst men , and by consequence riches and honour , the most nervous and effectual consideration of the gentiles sacrifices must be taken that way . thus when princes who in the governing of mankind , found it to be an unruly creature , mischievous , and not capable to be guided by solid reason or truth , but totally subjected to the passions of hope and fear ; how false and vain soever it matter'd not , provided that things were well fitted and suitable to their capacities : wherefore they to encourage obedience and good works , held forth gain and preferment ; as on the other side , to deterr from disobedience and mischief , they ordain'd forfeitures and disgrace : — et ponere leges , ne quis fur esset , neu latro , neu quis adulter , horat. serm. yet in as much as abundans cautela non nocet , and seeing there were many clandestine villanies so secret and undiscoverable , as could hardly be brought to an open conviction , for such the magistrate rais'd within them animo tortore flagellum , viz. in their consciences the fear of some future punishment ; whereof for want of that true knowledge which we enjoy , they feign'd some of their own inventions , such as the stygian lake , and the like ; which in as much as the goodness of god , and their present invisibility rendred the less credible , therefore the declaring them to be with material fire , as also eternal , did in good measure over-awe that incredulity . from whence we may observe , how necessary and how natural is the belief of a reward and punishment hereafter : that even the unenlightned heathens , as well for conveniency , as from the impulses of their own natures , were forced to acknowledge it so rational and so natural is that article of our christian faith. xi . now for the erecting of this tribunal in the minds of men , they ( not being enlightned from above ) made use of superstition , ( the off-spring of too much honour , and too much fear ) which being to be managed cunningly , and well fitting to vulgar capacities , they did little or not at all regard the satisfaction of clear rational men . for first , the number of them is so small , as they are of no power ; and then they are too wise to hazard their own ruine for the instruction of foolish men , casting pearl before swine ; knowing withall , that if any man should be so vain as to oppose the common belief , the mobile would ( as they did by socrates ) oppress and decry him for an atheist . therefore the wisest among the heathens follow'd this rule in their converse , loquendum cum vulgo , sentiendum cum sapientibus ▪ & si mundus vult decipi , decipiatur . our saviour himself found how improper it was to unfold his sacred mysteries to the ignorant multitude , and therefore explain'd not his parable of the sower , till he was alone amongst the twelve , saying , vnto you it is given to know the mysterie of god : but unto them that are without , all these things are done in parables ; that seeing they may see , and not perceive , and hearing they may hear , and not understand : lest at any time they may be converted , and their sins should be forgiven them . he that hath ears to hear let him hear , saith christ ; that is , not every one that can hear , but only such as are well able to digest and understand what they do hear . now this kind of reservedness and secresie being likewise observ'd by the most prudent of the heathens , it made their priests altogether neglect such thoughts , though never so wise , as being well assured that their prudence would hinder them from discovering or interesting themselves in the vulgar superstitions , how sottish soever . but nevertheless , to fortifie themselves the better against any such discovery , they ever decry'd humane wisdom , and magnify'd ignorance , well knowing that the seeds of their foolish doctrine , would prosper no where but in barren ground . reason teaches that there is but one only supreme god ; but they taught the belief of many gods. reason teaches that the law of god , viz. that law which is absolutely necessary to our future happiness , ought to be generally made known to all men ; which theirs was not . reason makes no difference betwixt their enthusiasticks , and our mad-men . reason expects some more convincing argument to prove the infallible divinity of their laws , inspirations , and miracles , than an ipse dixit : and upon that maxim of contra principia non est disputandum , reason would reply , vno dato absurdo mille sequunter . reason would suspect the power of their jupiter , who had no way to reduce the trojans to himself , but was forc'd to suffer his own son sarpedon to be knock'd on the head by them . reason would tell us that romulus and rhemus were bastards , and that their mother rhea's pretence of being layn with by god mars , was only a sham upon the credulous multitude , hoping thereby to save both her credit and her life . again , when they desire me to give but the same credit to the history of their gods , as i do to other history , i will ; but as well in their religious , as in livy or other prophane history , when i hear of on ox's speaking , or a god's descending in a cloud and shower of gold to lye with a woman , in all such miraculous narrations , my reason desires to be further satisfy'd in the truth of them , than only by the report of the author . proculus tells us of romulus's appearing after his death , and that he saw him all array'd in white , &c. but my reason bids me quaere , whether he had not some hand in his murther , and thought by pretending romulus to be taken up to heaven , to clear himself to the people of that suspicion . apollonius tyanaeus is reported by philostratus to have rais'd a maid from the dead , but reason questions whether the maid was not only asleep ; for sleep is the image of death . philostratus also further telleth , that apollonius vanish'd away out of the emperor's presence , before a great number of people : but here reason bids me observe , that although it is reported to have been done in the presence of a great number of people , yet i have but the testimony of one man for the truth of it , viz. philostratus , and not the testimony of all those people . the darkness of the sun at julius caesar's death , appears to reason to be but an accident , proceeding from some natural cause , and that it was no greater complement to caesar , than to any other person in the world that dyed at the same moment . there is nothing how impossible soever to be done , that is impossible to be believed ; for two men conspiring , one to seem lame , and the other to cure him with a charm , will deceive many ; but many conspiring , one to seem lame , the other to cure him , and all the rest to bear witness , will deceive more . thus when vespasian is said to cure the lame and the blind , reason reports the story of it thus : that vespasian observing how kingdoms are preserv'd and augmented by religion , pretended himself to have an immediate power from heaven , and for that end corrupted two of his subjects with money , to feign themselves the one blind , and the other lame ; whom he afterwards cured with much solemnity before the people . in the same manner the french kings cure men of the evil ; for the physician first examines the patient's wound , and if he finds it incurable , then declares it is not the evil ; but if he finds it a sore that is easie and likely to cure , then the physician calls it the evil , that so the king may have the credit of curing that , which would have done well of it self . these and many more such impostures were put in practice by the heathens , which for as much as humane reason detects , their priests had great occasion to exclaim against it , as they did . let us christians from hence learn to esteem our religion the more , which stands the test of reason , bidding us give a reason for our hope . furthermore , these grand heathenish impostures ( the sacris initiati , as they call'd themselves ) the better to prepare for the planting of their idolatry in the minds of men , did ( under the pretence of speaking after the manner of men ) pre-suppose their gods to be originally of flesh and bloud , attributing to them such passions and designs as are only incident to mortals : they made them of both sexes , gods and goddesses ; jupiter had his wife juno , and either for variety , or when weary of her curtain-lecture , he went to his misses ; but for a fuller entertainment in his cups , they procured him a ganymede : his grave was also to be seen in crete , as well as the grave of any other person ; and yet so sottishly impious were they , as to believe this dead man to be the ever-living god. nay they made their deities subject to those vices which were acted but by the worst of men : in so much that nothing is more celebrated in jupiter , than his adultery ; no in mercury , than his fraud and thefts , of whose praises in a hymn of homer's , the greatest is this : that being born in the morning , he had invented musick by noon , and before night stoln away the cattle of apollo from his herdsmen . therefore in minucius you may hear octavius telling caelicius , that the heathens entertain'd such fabulous notions of their gods , as they usually ascribed such horrid things to them , as would be accounted scandalous and dishonourable to any good man : immortalia mortali sermone notantes , lucr. the heathens ( says arnobius ) did by their gods , as an ass would do by cato , whom if he were to commend to his fellow asses , he would say he had delicate long ears , could bray very loud , and carry great burthens ; which being the most eminent qualities in asses , they would attribute them to cato when they meant to praise him : and just so did they impiously judge of their gods ; which an ingenious physician observing , he would never give one of their priests physick , till he was inform'd what opinion his patient had of divine vengeance ; because if he magnify'd gods mercy , then he gave him something to purge flegm ; whereas if he extoll'd gods judgements , then he gave him something to purge choller . cardan was so uncharitable as to think this superstition ( which did really sink under the ruines of paganism ) was like the river arethusa , risen up again even among the christians , saying , nos nebulones loquimur de deo , tanquam de uno è nobis . but this impiety is so far from being practised amongst us christians of the reformed church , that atheism it self would be as soon tolerated . plutarch desired rather to be forgotten in the world , than remembred by the name of the man that used to devour his own children , as saturn is reported to have done : and it is better to have no opinion of god at all , than such an one as is dishonourable to him , as the lord bacon well observes . yet this was the heathen faith ; for although they did not own themselves to be made after the image of god , yet did they in their fond imaginations make their gods after the image of men : which must needs occasion the same mutual likeness . xii . having thus therefore manured the ground of popular understandings , wherein to sow the seed of vulgar religions , they sow'd thereupon such kind of doctrines , as they judged best capable of reception , and most proper to each particular genius of the time and people , according as they found them more or less rude or subtle , debauch'd or austere . hence grew their oblations , and altars , whereon they were offer'd : these did always accompany their prayers ; for they supposing their gods to be like the eastern princes , before whom no man might come empty handed , and perhaps because a great part of their offerings fell to the priests share ; therefore they soon left off numn pompilius's institution , who according to the poverty of those times , ordain'd a little cake and salt with a few fruits : and so pythagoras appointed honey , frankincense , fruits , flowers , and other things , but always incruenta ; till in process of time their gods ( or at least their priests ) grew so covetous , that they could not be satiated without the bloud of beasts ; whereupon men began to offer up sheep , oxen , and almost all manner of beasts , to one god or other ; who at length , like corrupt judges , were not to be bribed but at high rates , especially where either the petitioner was a rich man , or the boon sued for very considerable , or the god one of the better sort : in such a case sheep were despised , and nothing less than an ox would be accepted . thus by degrees they grew to such excess , that at length in case of a publick pestilence , or upon some great warlike undertaking , it was not unusual to offer hecatombs , that is , an hundred oxen , an hundred sheep , and as many swine , all at once upon a hundred several altars . but to exceed all this , some grew to sacrifice men and women : the ancient galli used to feed a man sumptuously for the space of one year , and then upon a festival day , they carried him out of the city and stoned him to death , as an expiation for the sins of the people . also apollonius tyanaeus thought to stop the plague at ephesus , by sacrificing a poor old beggar . nay some went further than this , and sacrificed their own children : thus agamemnon upon his undertaking that renowned war of troy , offer'd up his only daughter iphigenia ; and if he could have procured one of the gods themselves , it is very probable he would have sacrificed him to jupiter or mars , for the better success in his enterprize . we read in ancient history of many heathens , who sacrificed their own lives to propitiate the gods to their countries ▪ as codrus , for the athenians ; menaeceus , for the thebans ; anchorus , for the sydonians ; as also curtius and the two decii , for the romans , whereof you may read at large in livy's th book . thus humane sacrifices grew every where so common , that in mexico men in a year were frequently slain upon their altars ; for the more brutish and unnatural cruelties they used , the more prevalent they thought them with heaven ; and indeed they have usually been crown'd with the most success ; perhaps supposing the intentional piety , to prevail above the unnatural act ; or rather , that the general confidence of the gods assistance to be thereby procured , might raise a more than ordinary vigour in the souldiers minds , which is the chief cause of victory . therefore when they were ready to joyn battle with the enemy , it was usual to make some vow to the gods for their assistance ; which when the other party understood , they always out-vow'd the former , in hopes thereby to win the gods from them , or at least to make the souldiers believe they had : thus the crotoniatae in their war against the locrenses , vow'd to apollo the tenth of the spoil , if he would give them victory : whereupon the locrenses to outvie them , vow'd to the same god the ninth part if he would be on their side , and that re-vie carried it . also the french under the conduct of aristonicus against flaminius , vow'd to mars a great gold chain ; but flaminius to out-bid them , vow'd to erect a magnificent trophy , and so prevail'd . much like the story of a corrupt judge , who being bribed with a jar of oyl , the other party came the next day and presented him with a fat ox , whereupon he gave sentence for the ox ; and when the oyl-man murmur'd , the judge to excuse the business told him , that in the place where the jar of oyl stood , an unruly ox brake in and overturn'd it , so as it was quite forgotten . and many times their prayers were in themselves so wicked and execrable , as could never hope for a reception , unless usher'd in with a very tempting oblation : da mihi fallere , da justum , sanctumque videri , noctem peccat is , & fraudibus objice nubem . horat. this prayer one would think needed an hecatomb at least to render it passable ; but their gods unwilling to let their altars grow cold , would sometimes like country-attornies , rather take small fees than none at all , to assist them in their frauds . xiii . now as there were sacrifices to obtain things of the gods , and peace-offerings to appease their supposed wrath and fury ; so also were there others of thanksgiving , for benefits receiv'd : thus the thurii made a solemn sacrifice to the north-wind , for having dispers'd and sunk the great fleet which dyonisius had sent to invade their country . but these kinds of sacrifices were most practised in private families , and therefore may rather be call'd gentilitia than sacra popularia : of this sort were the sacra clodiae , aemiliae , julianae , corneliae gentis , &c. mention'd in tully and others ; which private sacra were made perpetual by the laws , and so recommended to posterity . now because they were not only chargable but to be continued from age to age as long as the said family or inheritance lasted , therefore purchasers were glad adire haereditatem , or to get such a living as was not clogg'd with these entail'd sacrifices ; concerning which , you may find a merry passage in plautus , where a parasite brags that he had gotten an inheritance sine sacris , sine sumptu , &c. but however , there were not so many of these thanksgiving sacrifices , as of the other ; for as much as all men are naturally inclin'd to covet and wish well to themselves , but few are so generous as when their turns are serv'd , to give thanks , especially if it put them to charge : for thus we see many many men will be mighty charitable in giving their blessing , good advice , or ghostly counsel , who nevertheless will not part with a farthing of money . the base ingratitude of mankind , is in a just proportion represented in the ten lepers ; where although the reward expected for their cure , was only an honest acknowledgement in a few words , yet when they had all they desir'd , and needed no more , there was but one in ten would trouble himself so much as to come and say , sir , i thank you . xiv . men may wonder why the heathen clergy did so highly extoll sacrifices , to appease divine wrath against sinners , and so little mention or make use of repentance : but the reasons of most obvious conjecture were two : first , they could not but observe how fickle a creature man is , he seldom holds long in a humour or resolution , especially if it goes against the grain of his natural inclinations : so as in effect , most men do but like little children , who having committed a fault , will ( to avoid whipping ) say they will do so no more , but do it again the next hour : this made repentance seem to them but formal , if not hypocritical ; and although the intention of amendment of life were for the time in some earnest , for stultus semper incipit vivere , and so they may , like dying men in a dangerous fit of sickness , vow to become new men : yet considering how frequent and certain their relapses were , it seem'd almost a mockery , or at the best , such carelesness as is hardly to be extenuate by the term of humane frailty , but rather a downright effect of incredulity ; and if so , it were then a very improper oblation to be recommended from their clergy , who lived by the credulity of men . for certainly if men did really and seriously believe what they pretend , or what by fits they make themselves think they do believe they could never live as they do ; so that want of believing is the only thing which destroys all religion , both true and false . the other and principal motive which induced the crafty heathen priests rather to promote sacrifices , than repentance , was for that they were to be managed by none but themselves ▪ and so besides the great profit they brought them , they also rendred them of absolute and perpetual use to the people ; for they could never be laid aside , as being the only men who by their oblations could meditate with heaven for them : whereas in repentance they were altogether unconcern'd , a broken and contrite heart was a peace-offering which every man could bring for himself , without the priests assistance , or any gain accruing to them thereby . xv. unless it were in japan , i do not remember to have read of any place where they assumed the office of confessors , with power to absolve sinners ; which peradventure if they had presumed to claim , and could have obtain'd , might have brought them in as great a reverence as any kind of oblation whatever ; but they eithr thought not of it , or it may be these great officers the censores morum would not admit thereof : for that it was ever found true , facile itur ad peccatum ubi venalis est gratia ; especially rich men would not care how vicious they were , knowing they had wherewithal to procure absolution when they pleased : so that the poor seem'd in a manner predestinate to damnation , or gods enemies , as the turks call them ; who for that reason will very seldom relieve them . he that would ask , what the ancient religion of the heathens was ? it may be answered him , that it was their sacrifices ; which varied according to the several manners of each country . now however all sacrifices seem to be the invention of priests , yet the cruenta especially ; many philosophers condemning them , but above all pythagoras , who said , that men ought to permit no sacrifice made with slaughter ; and that innocent were not to be slain for the gods , such cruelty being rather likely to aggravate , than extenuate mens other sins ; also that altars were not to be imbrued with bloud . porphiry likewise saith , that in ancient times it was thought a great crime to kill any harmless innocent beasts , they being intercommoners with men on earth : and many besides him were of that opinion ; as thinking it enough to take from the sheep her fleece , from the cow her milk , and from the ox his labour , without robbing them of their lives . the killing of animals in sacrifice , was however thought to be very proper for feasting ; they might also not without some good intention be offer'd to their gods , as to whom they ow'd their food . the matter of sacrifices in general , was flesh , fish , and fowl , as also whatsoever did afford savoury and wholsom sustenance . but amongst all the cruenta sacrificia , the most ancient seems to be that of swine , who for the trespass they made upon agriculture , were offer'd to ceres the goddess thereof , as we may learn from this line of ovid : prima ceres avidae gavisa est sanguine porcae now these cruenta sacrificia were used not only for thanksgiving , but also for expiation of their sins ; as likewise for assembling of the people together to make good chear , and bring in roast-meat for the priests : nor were feasts uneffectual for the upholding of the worship of their gods in the minds of men ; since at all entertainments , the company are naturally apt to drink the founders health . sacrifices , especially the cruonia ▪ seem to have been first used among the aegyptians , and from them derived to the hebrews , as theodoret confesses ; observing only , that whereas the aegyptians sacrificed either to daemons or idols , the israelites through the divine permission were allow'd to offer them to god. st. jerom also upon the words of jeremiah ( chap . ver . . ) saith , that god at last did allow the use of sacrifices to himself , lest otherwise they should be made to false gods : whereupon also he notes , that moses never commanded the use of sacrifices , but by the way of tolerating them after the israelites were come out of aegypt , where the sweetness of sacrifices seems first to have been found out ; for not only their bellies , but also their backs profited by them ; tunicae pelliceae , or coats of skins being their usual garments : for which reason the cruenta sacrificia were most esteem'd of all others . xvi . there are many general things observable in all or most of their offerings , and of mystical signification ; as this : that although their gods were notoriously guilty of fraud , rapine , and violence , yet above all other oblations they delighted most in creatures meek and harmless , as doves , sheep , and oxen ; which were not only better meat for their priests , than lyons and tygers , or the like , but also served for an emblem ; to shew that soft and innocent natures were ordain'd for a prey to the fraudulent , rapacious and violent : in the observation whereof , the wise spectators instructed themselves to their own advantage and safety . much to this purpose was that saying of an ancient father , omnes nos sumus aut corvi qui lacerant , aut cadavera quae lacer antur ; according to our english proverb , he who makes himself a sheep , becomes a prey to the woolf. therefore mahomet to make his disciples all wolves , delivers this impious doctrine , that he who forgives an injury does well , but he who revenges it does better : supposing that a constant revenge for injuries , would in time make men more wary of committing them , and by consequence advance morality . also machiavil's design being to render his disciples so rapacious , that they might be able to encounter the worst of men , he is by the ingenious bocaline in his parnassus , resembled to a man that driving a flock of sheep into a corner , did there take out their own teeth , and in their stead , gave each of them a set of wolves teeth ; so that whereas before one shepherd was able to drive a whole flock , now each sheep hath need of particular shepherd , and all little enough too . much to our purpose is it noted by plutarch , that great princes in their shields do ever give creatures of force and rapine , as eagles , lyons , dragons , and the like , to teach them how to maintain their grandeur : in resemblance whereof , henry the th of france had ever engraven upon his ordnance this motto , ratio ultima regum ; but however for petty princes , a fox may be the better emblem . xvii . these sacrifices upon extraordinary occasions , were ever presented with wonderful solemnity and magnificence ; for according to st. paul's observation , they holding we were the off-spring of the gods , might probably conjecture that our great delight which we take in solemn shows and musick , might be originally derived into our natures , from the like spirit in the divine original of nature , of whom we proceed : and if so , then these kind of solemnities seem proper sacrifices to the genius of mankind , and by consequence , would at least take with men , if not with god. however , they were found to work two great effects upon peoples minds : the one , of concern to religion ; the other , to the state. the concern as to religion was , in raising a kind of veneration and awful terrour in the spectators ; which is a frame of spirit most susceptible of devotion , excluding all wandring , light and vain thoughts . therefore in the most ancient times , the chief part of their divine worship was celebrated in thick groves ; and afterwards when they erected temples , many of them were of magnificent structure , but ever so gloomy and dark , as they were in the day time fain to make use of lamps upon their altars ; for such a light represents any show much more splendidly than open day-light : as we plainly see in our theatres , who but for that advantage , would never be at the charge of lamps and candles in the summer time . these stately representations of their offerings , with the priests fantastical vestments and profound gravity , was a kind of acting their religion as it were upon a stage ; and it fared also with that as with opera's , which ever take better acted , than read : segnius irritant animos demissa per aures , quam quae sunt oculis subjecta fidelibus . the whole history of most of their gods , was at the time of their several festivals very splendidly acted after the manner of publick plays , and generally in dumb-shows , without any words at all ; as supposing every one from his childhood acquainted with the story by his religious education . these shows upheld their fabulous divinity many thousand years , perhaps much longer than if they had grounded it upon argumentative discourses and syllogisms , which are knacks that either take not the multitude at all , or never hold them long : for either the cares of the world stifle them , or at best after a time they grow as tedious as a fiddler that can play but one tune . besides , these frequent representations were no less effectual to strengthen the peoples faith , than if they heard the articles of their faith daily rehears'd unto them ; which is the most prevalent way of naturalizing a religion to the people , how false soever : since nothing is more frequent , than to have men tell lyes ( though of their own inventions ) so often , till in time they themselves grow to believe them true . xviii . the other concern , viz. of the state in those great sanguinary sacrifices , was by innuring the people to such horrid and bloudy sights , which though but of beasts , yet doubtless tended much to the hardning of their hearts against all apprehensions of bloud and death , either in themselves or others ; rendring them fitter for the wars , and thereby more capable either of defending or enlarging their empire . upon this consideration it is , that our laws will not admit a butcher to serve upon the jury of life and death : also at the battel of edgehill it was generally observ'd , that one foot-regiment of butchers , behaved themselves more stoutly than any other regiment of either side ; and yet they had never before that time been flesh'd in any bloud but that of beasts . to this purpose therefore the ancient romans did much harden the hearts of their men , by using them to various other inhumane bloudy sights : as gladiators slaughtering one another in their amphitheatres ; and condemning malefactors to be there torn in pieces by wilde beasts , for the diversion of the people : which occasion'd the primitive church to prohibit the christians all such bloudy sights , as not intending or approving of such hardness of heart , but rather choosing to govern in the spirit of meekness and innocence , hoping thereby to gain a greater submission : whereas the heathen princes ( especially the romans ) when they arrived to that grandeur as encouraged them into an ambition of conquering the universe , desired in pursuance of that wicked design , to educate their people in such fierceness and inhumanity as might fit them for that purpose and the heathen priests ( who were certainly the wickedest and craftiest of men ) knowing how serviceable they might be to the prince , as well as the prince to them , in a despotick government , soon discover'd their own interest , in being contributers to that design . xix . now considering these things , and where all regard of god and nature was said aside , the use of their sacrifices could not but be very pertinent ; and apprehended that way , were not so absurd as by lucian and other ingenious persons they are represented to have been . the common people were so weak , as to be deluded into the belief of these trumperies , by that fallacious argument which all superstitions have ever made use of , and indeed lyes as well for one as another , ( viz. ) that the vulgar faith was the safest . but however , the great and prudent men among them were not so sottish and blind , as not to discern the intrinsick worthlessness of their superstitions , however they upheld them for worldly advantage ; and therefore when a roman general deferr'd to give the signal of a battel , because the soothsayers chickens forbore to eat ; a young nobleman standing by , told him , he wondred he would omit so great an opportunity for so small a thing : to whom the general reply'd , these things seem small , but our fore-fathers by regarding these little things , have made this commonwealth great . and to shew that when they were not under these politick corruptions , but free to declare their own judgments , their inward devotion was more excellent than their outward profession , observe what one of their own poets delivers concerning sacrifices : non bove mastato coelestia numina gaudent , sed quae praest and a est vet sine teste fides . ov. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e chorus sacerldotum , ●d brook's mustapha . mr. d. mark . , . of idolatry hammond, henry, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing h a). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing h a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) of idolatry hammond, henry, - . [ ], p. printed by henry hall ..., oxford [i.e. london] : . attributed to hammond by wing and nuc pre- imprints. "a london counterfeit"--madan, . reproduction of original in the harvard university library. eng idols and images -- worship -- early works to . a r (wing h a). civilwar no of idolatry. hammond, henry f the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the f category of texts with or more defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion of idolatry . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} oxford , printed by henry hall , printer to the universitie . . of idolatry . § as the judgements of other men have perswaded me to think it pertinent and seasonable to adde this one unto foure former disquisitions , with which it holds some analogie and cognation ; so the nature of the enquiry hath prompted and directed me to take rise ( as those former have done ) from the examination of the word , and that by observing the origination first , and then criticall peculiar importance of it among ancient writers , those especially of the scripture . § to that end the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , idol , of which it is compounded , must first be viewed . and of that there is no question , but that in the literall notation of it , it signifies an image or representation of any kind , and accordingly in the old testament is set to expresse both {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} an image , or similitude , any kind of figure in generall ; and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} a carved or graven image in specie , a statue of wood or stone , any kind of sculpture ; though the truth is , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is not the most ordinary rendring of either of these , but {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} imago of the former , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} but twice , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} sculptile of the latter , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} but thrice . § three words there are to which it is most ordinarily applied , . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} a nothing that hath no being , ( to which saint paul referres when he saith an idol is nothing ) or if you please a no god , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} that hath no divinity , no power to help the client or worshiper ; parallel to that passage , deut. . they have provoked me {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} with that which is no god . § secondly , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} gods , the many false gods of the heathens , by the greek seven times rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} idols , unlesse perhaps it may be conjectured , that they which so rendred it in those places , mistook , or misread {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} gods ( which in other places they constantly render {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , at least two hundred times ) for {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} nothings , vanities , which is very near in writing and sound unto it , and such mistakes are no great news in those translatours . § thirdly , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} pollution , filth by which any man is contaminated ; this is rendred sometimes {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} abomination , but more frequently {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( idol ) then any thing else , which certainly referres not onely to the pollution of the soul by the commission of that sinne ( for by every other sinne some such pollution is contracted ) nor onely to that other notion of spirituall fornication , but principally to the abominable sinnes of uncleannesse , and filthinesse , which those idol worships were ordinarily guilty of , and from thence received a great aggravation and heightning of their guilt , and punishment . and to the same purpose the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} abomination , or filthinesse , ( and so most commonly rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) is sometimes {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} idol also . § other words there are , that sometimes ( but more rarely ) are thus rendred also , as {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( from whence the greek {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) high places , the altars or temples of their false gods peculiarly , ( as may appear macc. . . where {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the heathen altar was by antiochus set upon the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} or altar of the jews ) and these would be more properly rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , idol temples , or altars , then {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} idols , and therefore perhaps in that one place ezek. . . where it is rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , it may be a false print , for {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i am sure our english most properly renders it high places , and those are called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} not onely by the authour of that book macc. . . but by saint paul himself , cor. . . speaking of him that eateth {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} in a temple or other place where those false deities were worshiped . § secondly , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} vanitie , from whence it is that the gentile-idol worshipers under the title of [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ] all men , the generalitie of mankind ( or all the world but the jews ) are said to be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , wisd. . . vain or idolatrous by nature , that is , either by birth born in that idolatrous age among those heathens ; or else by long , popular , nationall , oecumenicall custome , which is , saith galen , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} an acquired nature ; thus hath suidas interpreted the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} nature , that it is sometimes {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} a chronicall evil custome , and instances in that place where saint paul tells the ephesians chap. . . that they had been by nature the children of wrath , ( as {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} children of wrath , signifies peculiarly gentiles , so ) the prime if not onely intent of that adjunct {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is ( as many circumstances in the context will convince ) that they were such idolatrous gentiles , either {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} by birth , ( born such gentile worshipers , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} as the rest also of the heathen world was ) or else {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , by custome , by long popular habit of education , or ( which will unite both those senses , and more fully expresse the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} from {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) by a long habit deduced from their very first being or birth , and so continuing till the time of their conversion ; customary idolaters , walking {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , according to the age or vicious custome of the heathen world , vers. . and the practices of the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , infidels or unbelievers . and so will the word be best rendred , when the same apostle expostulates with the corinthians , cor. . and demands whether {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( we render nature ) did not tell them , that it was a shame for a man {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , which we render to wear long hair , but i conceive , would more properly ( according to the use of the word in the greek authours ) be translated to let the hair grow at length . if either of the interpretations be accepted , then sure {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} must onely signifie the custome and fashion of the place , or of the generality of men , or else birth , as that containeth in it the distinction of sexes , or in the mixt sense , an universall continued custome from their birth till then ; and not nature in the ordinary acception , or as it signifies the law of nature written in our hearts . for then not onely absaloms hair must be against nature , ( which yet the scripture charges not with that crime ) but even the vow and practise of samson and the nazarites , had been an unnaturall sinne . a later critick would have {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} be taken for braiding of hair , or making a dressing of it ( which i confesse the apostles argument in that place , and the mention of {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , a covering , would perswade ) but then still {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} must signifie ( though not onely a locall , yet ) an universall custome , such as hath designed and fitted distinction of attires to distinction of sexes , which it would be hard to impute to the dictate of nature in every mans heart , so that that should be thought to define what attire is naturall to a man , what to a woman , but is an act either of locall custome , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , ( which in this matter the apostle appeals to , vers. . against all disputers ) or else of universall custome of all nations , which he seems to plead in this place . but i conceive it without example in authours sacred , or heathen , that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} should signifie a dressing , ( whatsoever {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and other words of some affinity may be thought to do . ) the notion which at first i gave you will satisfie all pretensions both of the grammarian and the textuary , that it signifie to let the hair grow at length without cutting or poling it , that will satisfie the critick , for that is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} comam promittere , and to do so , there can be little reason assigned , unlesse it be in order to braiding it , or making a covering of it , on occasion of which it is that the apostle here saith , that it is an honourable or decent thing for a woman to do so , vers. . ( and the contrary for a man ) and not to do so is all one for her , as to be shorn or shaven , verse . and . and so that satisfies the textuary also . but this by the way , from this acception of the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} vanity , for idols , it is that rom. . . saint paul saith of the heathen , that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} they became vain , that is , fell to those impious idol-worships . § thirdly , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} lords or husbands ( or as we retain the hebrew word in english , baalim ) chron. . . jer. . . is rendred in the greek again {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , idols , and so clearly signifies those other heathen deities taken into a rivalry with the god of heaven . § fourthly , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; we render it the sun-images in the margin , es. . . but whosoever considers the place , and ezek. . . will acknowledge that it signifies ( not the images , but ) the places of worship of {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} that is , the sun , called by the greeks {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} & {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the places where the sacred fires were made in honour to the sunne , and the word is therefore by the targum rendred , isai. . . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} delubra , temples , ( a description of which is given us by benjamin in his itinerary , and by some of the rabbins , affirmed to have been first of a religious institution to god in thanksgiving for that glorious creature ) these i say are once rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , idols , isai. . . but in other places {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , temples , &c. § fifthly , the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( farre enough naturally from any such signification ) is rendred ezek. . . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , idols , and our english from thence have continued that rendring [ our idols ] where yet i conceive the hebrew should be translated [ their actions or inventions ] ( the word properly denoting any good or evil work or enterprize ) and the greek rendring may possibly have been a mistake of the hebrew {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} for {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( from which before we had {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} for idols ) and then it will be the same in our english also . § sixthly , the word , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} that signifies any cause of grief , of toyl , of frightfull passion , is often rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , noting again their heathen gods , which used their clients exceeding ill , the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , daemons , the fear and dread of whom produced the greek word which we render superstition , and near of kin unto that , is a seventh {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} which once is rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} also , and from the origination of the word is justly rendred [ horrours ] in our margin , chron. , . § once more the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} teraphim , those which rachel stole from laban , are rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , idols , also , and seem to have been some images ( {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , saith josephus , images of his gods ) but as others guesse , images set to a certain position of the starres , with the figures of the planets upon them according to the custome of the syrians then , by which they were wont to divine ; not any thing like the cup , whereby say the egyptians of joseph , he divineth , for that i conceive was but a drinking cup , wherein he used to drink in those sacrifices by which he prepared to receive presages from god , ( and therefore i should render those words gen. . . [ with which he receiveth presages ] but astrologicall instruments , with pictures of starres upon them , which some conceive to have been so made , that they were able to speak sometimes , and then they will differ but little from the sun-idols even now mentioned , for those they say , by the operation of the fire , became vocall . § this so particular wearisome trouble have i given the reader at the entrance , to give him occasion of observing that the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , idol , though it signifie an image , or sculpture , or representation sometimes , yet it signifies somewhat else besides that , particularly these two things , . the heathen gods under the notion of false ( together with the temples wherein they were worshiped ) . the same again , and their worships under the notions of filthy , unclean , and abominable . which two notions of the word ( that we may proceed a step further ) we shall now look on , as they were in order to worship , and that will open to us some entrance to a view of idolatry , or the worship of idols what it is . § for the former , the worshiping of false gods , and images , i shall give you a brief narration of it out of the soberest of the jewish writers , maimonides l. . de idololatria . the first rise of idolatry is , saith he , to be referred to the dayes of enosh , when men ( taking notice how god had created the starres and sphears for the government of the world , and by placing them in so eminent a state seemed to mak them partakers of his honour , and used them as his ministers and officers ) resolved it their duty to laud , and extoll , and honour them , and taught others that this was the will of god , that we should magnifie and worship those whom he had preferred and dignified ( as a king would have his ministers honoured ) and that that is the honouring of god . vpon this foundation saith he , they began to build temples to the starres , to sacrifice to them , bow themselves before them , that by so doing they might obtain gods favour , and this was the ground of idolatry , not that they thought there was no god but the starres , but that they thought this worship performed to them to be the will of god . in processe of time false prophets arose , pretending messages from god , and directions for the worshiping of such or such a starre , nay for the sacrificing to all the host of them , building them temples , making pictures of them that might be adored by women , children , and all others ; and to that purpose they invented certain figures , affirming them to be revealed to them by prophesie , to be the images of such starres . thereupon men began to make images in temples , under trees , on the top of hills , and all men to meet and worship them , resolving and proclaiming that from those images all good and evil did proceed , and therefore in all reason they were to be feared and worshiped ; the priests promising all increase and prosperity as the reward of this worship , and prescribing of rules for the performance of it . after these , other impostours rose , that affirmed such a starre , or sphear , or angel , to have spoken to them , and prescribed their way and manner of worship ; in summe , it was generally spread over the world , that images were to be worshiped , each by a peculiar manner of sacrifice , and adoration , and the name of god was quite lost out of the mouth and minds of all men ; so farre as not to be acknowledged by them , but all sorts of people worshiped nothing but images of wood and stone , built temples on purpose for them , adored and sware by their name , and even the priests and wise men among them thought that there was no other god but those starres , &c. for whose sakes these images were made . as for the great god of this world no mortall knew him , save onely henoch , methusalah , noah , sem and heber , and so it continued till abraham was born , the pillar of the world . thus much maimon . and much more by way of story and observation . and what is thus by him observed of the heathens , is by others deduced as clearly for the idolizing of kings and great persons , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , men admired by their flatterers saith chrysostome : which besides the testimony of wisd. . . and aristotle met. . ( where he shews how admiration of great men and benefactours hath been the great principle of idolatry or men-worship ) is every where observable in the story of the romane cesars , no man dying without an {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , or being made a god ; and then constantly the setting up of their statues in their temples , following as an attendant of it . § many stages you see in this accursed progresse of idol-worship , before they came to images , and that last so prodigious a pitch , such a dishonouring of the deity , that the psalmist could not say any thing more reprochfull of the makers of them , and trusters in them , then that they were {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , like or equall to their gods . § to this purpose there are three notable passages which i shall but mention , and leave to be viewd at large ; the one isai. . . to the twentieth verse ; and the other , wisd. . . and so to the end of that chapter ; the third , in the epistle of jeremy , shewing the ridiculous progresse of a knotty piece of wood into a solemne deity , and the irrationall senselessenesse of that worship , even in the judgement of heathens themselves , witnesse heraclitus , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , praying to inanimate things is like talking to houses ; and yet this madnesse the constant disease of those that had set up any other deitie but that of the onely true god of heaven , that ever adored any creature , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} rom. . ( not onely more , as we render it , but ) besides or except the creatour ; there being no stay for those ( that became thus vain to worship any thing but god ) no stop in their tumbling ( as maimon . phrases it ) to that deep gulf of impietie , the worship of the most inanimate mean creatures in the world . § the truth is , maximus tyrius gives a more favourable ingenious account of this matter , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . that as letters were invented for the expressing of words , ( that so by the help of writing , the weaknesse of mens memories might be repaired ) so the images of the gods were provided to help the infirmities of men , in which they may lay up the names of their gods , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and the famous things that are worth remembring of them , and in brief to help them to celebrate their gods as they ought , as so many {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , help and manuductions for remembrance , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , signes and tokens of their honouring them , trophees as it were of their noble acts to perpetuate the memory of them . so that although , as he acknowledges , god be invisible to eyes , yet in respect of our infirmity , and again of the nature of lovers to love , to behold their pictures whom they love , it will not be amisse to use any thing that may thus bring us in mind of god , and all this with a caution , that nothing be terminated in the picture , but the love , and remembrance , and everything bestowed upon god onely . this is a piece of heathen divinity very handsomly managed , being indeed no pretence of plea for the worshiping of images , but onely the using them as helps to perform our duty to god ; but it is no news to see the actions of the many , and the writings of the few very unlike one the other . ( it being very easie to write virtuously , and hard to live so . ) and certainly the heathen practice was quite another thing then this platonick speculation ; and so much of the first and second notion of an idol . § now for the other notion of an idol , as it signifies filthy or abominable , it will be worth observing , what the author of the book of wisdome saith of it in universum , wisd. . where after an enumeration of many other wickednesses in their {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , vers. . in their inhumane sacrifices and mysteries , he concludes with {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} pollution , inversion of nature , disorder of mariage , adultery , and shamelesse uncleannesse , vers. . and at length concludes that the worship of the namelesse idols , or those not to be named , is the beginning , and cause , and end of evil ; all the villanies in the world the designe and speciall parts of those worships . § to that purpose that i may not lead my reader into the heathen stories , or the relations made by the fathers in those tracts which they wrote against the gentiles , ( that excellent * set of bookes , which may serve any student for the isthmus , or {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , or passage between the study of humane and divine learning ) i shall onely point to some passages in the sacred writ that look this way . . kings . . after the mention of the idols and groves follows that there were sodomites in the land , doing according to the abominations of the heathen , which the lord had cast out before the children of israel , which gives you moreover a view of the particularity of the sinne of the amorites and other nations , which provoked god to that fatall slaughter , and eradication of them , which is more fully set down , levit. . , , , . and an expresse threat added from heaven , vers. . that whosoever shall commit any of these abominations shall be cut off from among their people . § and perhaps it will not be unworthy a digression here to mark , that at the routing out of those nations , and the planting in of the jews in their stead , by way of covenant , the condition of that covenant being that they should fear the lord , and not walk in the wayes of those nations ) the signe or seal of that covenant was designed to be such as had a particular reference to these sinnes of the flesh , and denoted the amputation of the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} superfluity of naughtinesse , which had been practised among those gentiles , and which would infallibly bring as certain excision upon them , ( if they reformed it not ) as was threatned by god to every male israelite that should continue uncircumcised . to the same purpose were all those laws and writes concerning legall pollutions , to bring them to the greatest alienation of mind , and detestation of this piece of heathenisme ; yea and one main part of the promise of god upon their obedience , viz. the multiplying of their seed ( which was so remarkable in that nation , that josephus mentions {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as the craft as it were , and speciall peculiar excellency of that people ) was a most naturall proper effect of the abstaining from those sinnes , and it is as clear that in our christian sacrament of initiation , the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the washing away the sordes of the flesh , had a propriety also to that , ( which is accordingly mentioned in the vow of baptisme , the forsaking of all the sinfull lusts thereof . ) but this by the way . § so again , chap. . . the idols and the sodomites are mentioned together , and . kings . . the houses of the sodomites are cast down ; where there is also mention of the groves for those dark purposes , by which under that name of {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} astarta seems to be designed . so when the babylonians made succoth benoth , what is meant thereby but the tents of venus , in which all the virgins were solemnly prostituted to the honour of that false deity venus , under the title of mylitta ? and so the prostitution of their daughters for the honour of their gods , which is mentioned not onely by herod . l. . and strabo l. , but in the epistle of jeremy vers. . where the cords mentioned are undoubtedly the signes of their vows ( and obligation from thence ) to pay that sacrifice before they went . so isa. . . inflaming , or you that inflame your selves with idols under every green tree , noting that prostitution of men and women in the groves about their idol-temples , in honour of their false gods . and to instance in no more , it seems not improbable upon these grounds that the frequent expressions of the idolatrous practises of the jews by fornication , whoring , and the like , may be somewhat more then a trope or figure of rhetorick , having thus much of reality in it also : it being clear that this falling off to the heathen idols brought them oft to these heathen sinnes also ; as in the matter of baal-peor it is most evident . so rom. . . it is affirmed of the gentiles that as a punishment of those idol-heathen-worships god gave them up {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , to dishonourable infamous affections , and a particular account of them is set down , vers. . women changing the naturall use , &c. and likewise men also {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} vers. . and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} vers. . guilty of those most reprochfull shames , and contumelies of nature . of which there was aboundant store in the eleusinia sacra , cybeles mysteries , venus , and flora's feasts , from which it will not be tolerable to repeat them . § by this ungratefull unsavoury observation it will be possible to contribute some what to the illustrating of many places in the new testament , and particularly of the notion of idolatry there , ( for which advantage it is that this discourse hath thus enlarged it self . ) as first , eph. . . where speaking of the gentiles , he saith {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( that is , in hesychius's glossary ) who * giving over all labour , ( as idlenesse is the mother-sinne of the sodomites ) gave themselves up to lasciviousnesse , to work all uncleannesse {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , we render it , [ with greedinesse ] the word is interpreted covetousnesse in other places , but signifies not onely that , but all immoderate , and peculiarly inordinate unnaturall desire , not onely coveting of wealth , i say , but in aristotle any thing that is opposed {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} to equality , when any man will have ( {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) above his portion . so in hesychius {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , to denote the [ more then is due or ought to be ] whatsoever the subject matter be . so in lucian de calumn : pag. . the calumniator is described to be one that will have all his auditours to himself , will let no man else be heard , and for this he calls him {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and so democrates in his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . defines {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} to be a speaking all , and not endureing to hear any body else : and the notion that i now speak of , applyed to inordinate lust , though it differ in the object , is the same in effect with this , a desiring and usurping , that which is not agreeable to his condition , sex , nature , &c. and of that we have a grammaticall ground in the hebrew word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} which signifies covetousnesse and lust , and being oft rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is once rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} pollution , ezekiel . . where though our english reade covetousnesse , yet the sense directs otherwise , even to that which vers . . is exprest by abominations . of this i should not thus define , were not many places of the new testament eminently applyable to this sense , nor thus farre extravagate on this word , did it not much tend to the explaining and asserting the new testament notion of idolatry ▪ that now we are upon . § in that rom. . . you have together in this matter {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , fornication , villany , ( not covetousnesse again , but ) inordinate desire and naughtinesse , and yet more evidently , coloss. . . where speaking of the gentile unbelievers , among their deeds that a christian is so carefully to avoid , the apostle mentions fornication , uncleannesse , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( i conceive , in salvians phrase ) passivity , evil concupiscence and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , sure inordinate desire again which is idolatry ( and this seems to me to have been acknowledged by saint cyprian , who ep. . will have [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , which ] referre to each of those foregoing names ) the interpretation of that heathen worship of theirs , for which the wrath of god cometh on the children of disobedience ( it seems again this was the sinne that brought that fatall destruction upon them ) {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , in which sinnes the colossians had sometimes walked when they lived {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , among the gentiles . so eph. . . let neither fornication , nor uncleannesse , or {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , inordinate desire be named among you , ( those nefanda , sinnes not to be named ) as becomes saints , as they are opposed to gentiles again . and so verse . every fornicatour , and unclean person , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , ( not covetous , but inordinate luster ) who is an idolatour . § this may possibly be the notation of idolaters also , when the apostle saith , cor. . . be not ye idolaters , as were some of them , as it is written , they sate down to eat and drink and rose up to play . for the greek {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , which we render to play , may possibly referre in that place to those sinnes of uncleannesse . it is clear that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} doth gen. . , and . which we there render [ mock ] and though {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} be not the word there used , yet the hebrew {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} signifies both , and is the word used both in that place of genesis , and exod. . . from whence our apostle cites it ; and if comparing the story acts . . ( where it is said in this matter , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , they rejoyced in the works of their hands ) be apt to perswade any , that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} to play , is all one with {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} to rejoyce , and so that both denote their dancing before their idol , it will be as obvious to replie that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} there used , signifies most properly the rejoycing at a feast luke . . and . . . . . and . . and so following , the offering of sacrifice to their idol , shall denote a sacrificall feast , and be all one with the eating and drinking here , but not with the playing that attends it : and so still the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} may probably be thus interpreted ; especially when in this place it follows immediately after {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} lusters after evil things , and is attended with {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , neither let us commit fornication . &c. and from thence perhaps it is that verse . to his exhortation of flying from idolatry , he subjoyns verse . i speak to wise men , judge what i say ; not willing to adde more words on that subject . this is but a conjecture of which i am not confident . but no question , this is the meaning of {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the abominable nefarious idolatries , pet. . . of the fruitlesse works of darknesse , whereof christianitie made them ashamed of the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , those things that were done in secret , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , which it was a shame to name or speak out ; ( all one perhaps with the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the hidden idolatry in the councel of laodicea ) to which you may adde , thess. . . this is the will of god , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , your purification , consisting as it follows in abstaining from fornication , &c. and after {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , in purification and honour ( as that is opposed to {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , dishonourablenesse , vilenesse , rom. . . ) not in the lust of concupiscence , as the gentiles &c. to which purpose it is the conceit of some learned men , that that which follows must be applied {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , verse . ( though our english reading look quite another way ) for so the context will enforce , verse . for god hath not called us , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , for uncleannesse , but {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , to or in purification . and so every of those words will bear , if it were now seasonable to insist upon it . and it is observable that isai. . . where the prophet speaks to the * adulterous apostate israel [ thou hast discovered thy self to others beside me , and art gone up , &c. ] the greek translatours have used these words , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. by {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , [ departing from me ] expressing [ the discovering her self to others beside me ] and by {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} [ desiring more ] rendring [ the going up ] which may therefore seem to be set in that place ( according to the hebrew {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} conscendit , ascendit , transcendit ) for [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ] in the notion that we now speak of ; and then you see the sympathy betwixt {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , according to the dialect and idiom of those writers . so cor. . . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , either fornicatour , or inordinate luster , or idolater . which cannot be applied to the worship of images , because he there speaks of christians in the profession at least , who sure did not then worship images , but might be guilty more probably of those carnall heathen uncleannesses , those impurities so solemnly used in the idol-worships . in which place , and the precedent verse under the generall word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , fornicatours , are specified {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the fornicatours of this world , that is , the gentiles , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; the inordinate lusters and idolaters again belong to that matter ; and so it is more then possible may the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} too , which we render extortioners , but may rather seem to signifie the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , or {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the rape or stealing of women or virgins , the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , pet. . . preying on them ( the literall notation of the word from {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , rapio , by which as by {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the hebrew {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is rendred ) and so i have observed the word to be used in constant . * harmenopulus , and may perhaps also in saint matth. chap. . . where {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is joyned with {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , incontinence , and opposed to {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , cleansing and clean , verse . § to this nothing can more clearly belong , then that mention of idolaters , cor. . . being so joyned on both sides with fornicatours , adulterers , soft or effeminate defilers of themselves with mankind . and what if the phrase {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , rom. . . do so also , [ thou that abhorrest idols ] the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} seems to referre to those ( so frequently called ) {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , abominations ; whether ( those of the sydonians , and the like , that is , whether ) abominable sacrifies , killing , and offering their sonnes and daughters unto devils , or abominable sorceries , deut. . or abominable senselesse stupidity , in worshiping inanimate creatures , or abominable lusts in their idol-feasts , i shall not now define , but onely observe , that if we should applie it peculiarly to the last of these ( yet not excluding the rest ) the rationall importance of the place will bear it very well . thou that dost so detest and abominate those heathen villanies in their idol-worships , if upon that ground of zeal thou robbe and rifle their temples , wilt never be able to clear thy self . § having gone through so many , there are but few more mentions of these words [ idolater or idolatry ] in the new testament , i shall briefly give you a view of them , gal. . . where of the works of the flesh , carnall sinnes there are in the front , adultery , fornication , uncleannesse , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( that foul sinne , which our translation renders here lasciviousnesse , but elsewhere shamelesse uncleannesse , wisd. . . idolatry , &c. all clearly of a making , if this notion of idolatry be accepted . so apoc. . . where among the eight severalls , to which the fire and brimstone old sodoms lot , is apportioned , you will find these five unbelievers ( a generall word for gentiles ) {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( we render it abominable , it is most probably in that place , and in that conjunction those that have been guilty of those {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , abominations , or bestiall sinnes , as apoc. . . you have {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the abomination and uncleannesse of her fornication , and so verse . fornicatours , and idolaters , and all liars , ( that is , i conceive all that are guilty of those false idolatrous worships ) and so again , chap. . . fornicatours , idolaters , and every one that loveth and worketh a lie , ( all those that delight in , and practise those false worships , which are called a lie , rom. . . ) and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} sorcerers in the front , either because that sinne was so ordinarily joyned to those other heathen impieties , ( as may appear by one eminent place , deut. . from the ninth to the thirteenth verse ) or upon a ground , which i shall have occasion to mention anon , of conjuring their gods by magicall ceremonies , ( {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) to adjoyn themselves to the consecrated images . and all this under the title of the dogs that are without , that is , the gentile world of idolatours . § thus in some latine fragments of polycarpus's epistle speaking of valens a presbyter of philippi , and his having committed somewhat utterly unworthy of that calling ( which is not there named , and perhaps by that may be rather guessed at what it was ) by his example he admonisheth others to abstain [ ab avaritia ] ( that sure was in greek , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) from inordinate desires , [ & sint casti ] and be chast . adding , that whosoever did not thus abstain [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ] ab idololatria coinquinabitur , & tanquam inter gentes judicabitur , will be contaminated by idolatry , and shall be judged as among the gentiles . § i have now sufficiently importuned and tempted my readers patience with these observations , which might be thought very extrinsecall to the matter in hand ( especially as farre as concerns the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) but that they tend immediately ( to which i designed them ) to that third and main importance of the word [ idol ] in the old testament ; and more then so , to the explication of the word idolatry ( and by the way , of many difficult passages ) in the new , so as to signifie those heathen basenesses , that christians were too apt to learn from the gentiles , when their image-worship was lesse tempting to them , and may therefore possibly be the vice , from which the apostle so dehorts his little children , that is , his new born babes in christ or gentile converts , that they abstain or keep themselves from idols , john . . for there was ( as farre as we reade in scripture ) little of any other kind of idolatry in fashion among christians at that time ( unlesse perhaps the eating the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} may come under that title which yet saint paul prohibits onely in order to scandall . ) and that this was , not onely slyly and secretly ( but even avowedly and profestly ) you may see pet. . which chapter being read and weighed in the originall , will appear to be almost wholly spent on this matter . i will give the reader a little light to it . § there was it seems a villanous sect of false teachers ready to creep in among those christians , verse . bringing in {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} doctrines of destruction ; you will guesse what that means , if you mark what some ancient copies set in stead of that word which we render [ destruction , ] when it returns again vers. . for there the old manuscripts have {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} want onnesses , in stead of {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} destructions . our english reades damnable heresies in the first place , and pernicious wayes in the second , but those are onely generally paraphrases which come not home particularly to the notation of the word , and therefore the margin of our books confessing that other reading , renders it verse . lascivious wayes , in the sense that now we contend for . this is further explained ( which convinces the discourse to belong to this matter ) by the sinnes of the old world , verse . and of sodom peculiarly , verse . by the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . verse . the conversation of those that observed no laws in their lasciviousnesse , such as did so grieve righteous lot in sodom , by {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} lust of pollution or abominable desire , verse . by {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . verse . we render it [ born to be taken and destroyed ] but it signifies rather in the active sense , that are made ad praedandum to prey , ( or catch and tear , so job . . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} by the greek rendred {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} to catch , is in the chaldee paraphrase rising up early to their prey ) and to corrupt , that is , good for nothing but to assault and debauch ( as ravenous beasts do use to prey upon ) all they meet with promiscuously ; and it is observable that the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} which properly signifies those things which are taken and torn with wild beasts , ( because such were not to be eaten * lev. . . ) is by use enlarged to all forbidden meats among the robbins ( if the lungs of any thing have a hole in them , they call it {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} &c. saith * elias levita ) and so by analogy is here made use of to denote those unclean prohibited acts , which are so to be accounted of among christians , as the cibus vetitus among the jews , and therefore it follows , that those that take pleasure in that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , such riotous actions as these verse . are called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} from the hebrew {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} macula , spots and blemishes , ( such as among the jews made the sacrifice unclean ) defilers and polluters of those , with whom they do {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} feast or revell , in the end of that verse . so it is again expressed verse . by having eyes full of the adulteresse , and that cease not from sinne , intangling , unstable or unconfirmed souls , that is , new converted christians , having a heart {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( in the sense which before we gave of the word , and which belongs to it also verse . ) exercised with those inordinate lusts , that is , wholly employed on them ; which denominates them {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} children of a curse , that is , worthy to have a curse fall on them ( as the sonne of perdition worthy to be destroyed ) and ver. . by the way of balaam ( who we know brought the israelites to that sinne of uncleannesse with the moabitish women , and to the curse by that means ) by {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} verse . that high pitch of vanity , or false idolatrous worship , as a snare to bring men to the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} &c. lusts of the flesh , lasciviousnesse , &c. ( with reference to the vicious heathen * conversation ) by a villanous licentiousnesse , verse . ( stolen in under pretence of christian liberty , but being indeed the basest * submission ) and by {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the pollutions of the heathen world , that is , of the nations , or gentiles , verse . ( which the knowledge of christ was designed to turn out , but complying and mixing with it , was the vilest and most damning condition that could befall any , vers. , . ) and at last by a {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the most swinish wallowing in the mire of all uncleannesse . and if you would know who these unclean hereticks were , ( which christianized all the villanies of the old idol-worships ) referred to in this and other places of the epistles , i shall not positively define , but leave it indifferently between the gnosticks and the nicolaitans , the gnosticks covertly * named . tim. . . ( it seems they were then a creeping in at ephesus ) and profestly declaimed at tit. . under the title of the cretian evil beasts , and slow bellies , vers. . and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , polluted persons , vers. . and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} abominable , and such as by their works deny the faith , vers. . § for , that these ( being called to {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} purification , and not to uncleannesse , that is , being by their conversion to christianity obliged to forsake those carnall lusts ) did abuse the grace of god ( that is , the light and mercies of the gospel ) to wantonnesse , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . jude vers. . ( which that it belongs to this matter in hand will appear by the parallel assigned them , vers. . ) that is , used it as an occasion to commit , or protection to continue in such sinnes , that they were guilty of strange prodigies of filthinesse , and retained in their sacraments some symbola of them , i had rather should be learnt from epiphanius , then from this paper . of them this is sufficiently known , that perswading themselves , that they were the children of god , they thought they might wallow in all filthinesse , and be no more polluted by it then the sunne beams by the dunghill on which they fall ; and against that doctrine of theirs it is that some interpret that of saint john [ that he which is born of god cannot sin , because he is born of god ] that is , cannot sinne upon that head or score , to signifie that their being born of god can be no patent or security for their sinning . § as for the nicolaitans which had their names from nicholas the deacon in the acts , and their sensuall practices from his example ( as might appear by the vile passages that saint jerome and others relate of him ) i shall not need to say more then what we find mentioned of them , apoc. . as first , that their works were odious to god , vers. . then secondly , that it was a sect of doctrine among christians ( as odious as it was ) vers. . and it will not be unseasonable to pray , that god will keep all sectaries from the like . thirdly , that it was the same doctrine that balaam taught balaac to bring the israelites to a curse , when nothing else could do it . vers. . and that fourthly , not onely specified in the story to be whoredome with the daughters of moab , numb. . but in this place particularly mentioned {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , eating things offered to idols , and fornication ; it seems the former of those , the idol-feasts , was wont to be previous and preparatory to the latter , ( and saint hieromes relation of nicholas witnesseth the truth of the parallel ) and therefore of the seven precepts of the sonnes of noah , mentioned in the apostles councell in the acts ( required of all proselytes that came in to judaisme , and so by way of complyance at that time , prescribed to all the gentiles that became christians ) the two first were those of abstinence from meats offered to idols , and from fornication , acts . . and the former of them , vers. . called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the pollutions or abominable villanies in those idol-worships , as in hesychius {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is exprest by {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , participation of their abominable ( or as he renders {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) unclean sacrifices , and the second {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} fornication , being all one with the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} de retectione nuditatum , all uncleannesse in generall contains adultery , incest , and all unlawfull lusts . and that will give an account why those {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} should be so forbidden in the acts ( it seems for that danger of unclean sinnes so commonly annext to the idol . feasts , as will appear , psal. . . and numb. . . . ) and yet be counted of as perfectly indifferent things by saint paul , cor. . viz. being separated from all danger of that unclean appendage . fifthly , of these nicolaitans works it is there added , that unlesse they be straight reformed , god will come quickly upon that church of pergamus , vers. . and that coming signifies a fatall blow , which was not onely observable to have fallen upon the seven nations , on sodom , ou most of the great monarchies of the world , for the revenge of this provoking sinne , ( idolatry thus heightned with this addition of villany ) but even more then one of those seven christian churches may be thought to have been involved in that guilt , and ruine ; even this of pergamus , and the next of thyatira , vers. . which sinne being described by jezabel making her self a prophetesse , and teaching and seducing christians , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , to commit uncleannesse , and to eat things offered to idols , ( in the sence before mentioned ) and by {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} depths of satan , vers. . she is said to have time given her for the reformation of this villany , vers. . and not making use of it , to have been delivered up to destruction , vers. . § all this i have said , and might adde much more , to clear this truth , that there were such idols for new converts to take heed of , in those dayes , such carnall gospellers , that retained that part of the heathen idolatries , which flesh and bloud was most apt to be taken with , when the worshiping of images was cast out . and if that villainous piece of heathenisme which ( by gods desertion , and that thick long darknesse , ( wherein they lived ) lay before the coming of christ , as an hideous sinne at once and judgement on those barbarous times , cannot yet ( by sixteen hundred years of full light , and by all christs precepts for all kind of purity of the very heart ) be exorcized , or mortified amongst us , and if still our ears are open to every sect of hypoctiticall professours , though never so wild and ignorant , that brings any liberty , or proffer of carnality along with it , then sure is the title of christian but ill bestowed on us , we are still the grossest idolatours in the world ; and so are in all reason to expect the most exemplary punishments , which fell on them , be it the portion of sodom , a judgement rained down immediately , a kind of fire and brimstone from heaven , ( such are our strange , groundlesse , irrationall destructions wrought upon one another at this time , which no man living can tell from whence they came ; which is a sure argument that there is somewhat of the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} in it , either as that signifies the divine hand of god , visible in the judgement , or as {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} signifies also that * brimstony fire that comes with thunder ) or be it the judgement that fell upon the nations for those villanies , a {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , or finall destruction of a profane polluted people . § having gone thus farre in our inquest on occasion of the origination and use of the word idolatry , especially in the old and new testament , and found somewhat meant by it in the new , which is not so vulgarly taken notice of , i shall desire to prevent a mistake , and do therefore professe not to have designed these observations to that end , that the sinne of idolatry so declaimed at in the scripture , should be thought to signifie nothing else , but those acts of villany in the heathen mysteries ; or because the worshiping of images is not so frequently spoken of in the new testament , that therefore it should be no sinne now under the gospell . that it is a grosse and provoking sinne in them that are guilty of it , there is no question , and the affirmation of text is clear , that there is no communication or reconcileablenesse betwixt the temple of god and idols , . corinth . . . and that the guilt of that sinne among the nations worshiping those sencelesse deities , was so great , that it provoked god by way of just punishment to deliver them up to those infamous vile affections . rom. . § i shall now therefore proceed from the more criticall to the reall materiall part of the discourse , and inquire into the nature of that sinne , merely as it is a worship of idols , or images . in which matter you may first observe some considerable difference between the two sorts of resemblances , which have been usuall among men . some extantes , corporeall figures standing out , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , statues , graven images ; others onely representations , or pictures , painted on windows , tables , chalices , &c. the former of these were most used by ( because fittest for the turns of ) the heathens , being by them ( through the commodiousnesse and advantage of their bodily shapes ) conceived to be more capable of animation by those gods of which they were the resemblances . thus is it the known divinity of * trismegistus ( or some body in his disguise ) that statues or simulachra were the bodies of their gods , who by some magicall ceremonies of consecration ( whence it seems to be that , galath. . apoc , . . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} sorceries , are joyned with idolatries ) were forced to * joyn themselves to them , to animate them , to assume , and inhabit those earthen bodies as it were . to which fancie perhaps the apostle may relate , when he tels the christians that their bodies are the temples of the holy ghost , that god is powerfully in them , though not in those dumbe images . and * proclus relates it as their opinion generally , that the gods were by their favour and help present in their images , and thereon is grounded the old relation of the tyrians , who on a fear that apollo would forsake them , bound his image fast with golden chains , and that other of the athenians who clipt the wings of the image of victory , that she might not fly away from them . and so the sicilians in * cicero complaining that they had no gods in their isle , give this reason for it , that verres had taken away all their statues . and so the idol thus raised above its naturall pitch by bringing down some aethereall spirit into it , ( viz. the god whose image it was ) became a god in their opinion , and was thought able to hear , see , speak , help , do any thing that belonged to a deity . thus doth nero in suetonius pretend to know things to come by the instruction of such an icuncula or little image . so trismegistus tels us of speaking images , and historians the like of memnons statues , and so labans teraphim , being supposed to have had a spirit included in them , went for labans gods . and it is not improbable by the text that the israelites calf was by them thus counted of , as an image which upon aarons consecration was thus animated by god , and so fit to go before them , to be their conductour in moses absence , whom they knew to be moved and directed by god . § it is clear , this calf , these gods as they call them , were by them desired to supply moses place , and though the conjecture be not improbable , that the figure of it was the same with the figure of a cherub ( which god after appointed to be in the tabernacle , exod. . . and of which it is possible aaron might then have some intimation ) as may appear by comparing ezek , . . with chap. . . where that which is the face of an oxe , or calf in one place , is the face of a cherub in the other , and the ground of this resemblance in reference to josephs providing for the egyptians , and also for his father and brethren in the famine ( whereupon his scutchion is said to be an oxe , agreeable to that prophecy of him , deut. . . his glory is like the firstling of a bullock , as minutius for his care of feeding the souldiers in a dearth was honoured by the romanes with a golden oxe , liv. l. . and as suidas relates of king apis that he fed the alexandrians in a famine , and therefore was honoured after death with a temple and an ox in it ) yet was this image worshipt by them ( as appears by their sacrificall feast and celebration ) and so used just as the egyptian idols , which were accounted as so many gods . and therefore the question which is ordinarily made , [ whether the israelites worship this calf , or onely god in this calf ] may well enough be superseded , and the resolution be sufficiently clear , that they worship not god onely , but the idol-calf also , ( and so i am sure their successors have conceived , which talk so much of a grain of the calf in every judgement they have suffered ever since ) and so doted upon the specious idol . and were transported with their sensuall way of worshiping it , that god was quickly almost lost , and forgotten amongst them , their heart going back into egypt , where such like images had been in fashion and were wont to be worshiped . § what is now said of this will belong also to the erection of jeroboams calves ; of which though it may not be improbable , that they also were the imitation of the images of the cherubim in the temple , and so the same of setting them up in dan and bethel an act of schisme , designed on purpose by jeroboam to keep open the great division in the state , . kings . . yet was it not the guilt of schisme alone , to which it was lyable , ( as * moncaeus hath laboured to perswade ) but having an addition of sacrificing to those calves also , vers. . and the proclamation of [ behold thy gods , o israel , which brought thee out of the land of egypt ] vers. . ( which intimates them to be set out by him to the people for so many animated inspirited images ) no question but the guilt of idolatry belonged to it , and that the divine censure and character of jeroboams sinne ( that stuck so close to his posterity ) importeth also . § the other pictures which are called dimissae , depressae , a plain painting on a table , &c. without any protuberancy , or bunching , were not by the gentiles thought so capable of receiving that animation . the distinction is maimons ; the first he calleth {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the protuberant image , the other {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the depresse , either drawn on a table in colours , saith he , or weaved in hangings . the former of these and not the latter , was it which was so strictly forbidden the jews ( and accounted as a {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} of polytheisme , a token of the worshiping of many gods , ( a discriminative note between the worshipers of the one true , and the many false deities ) because of that heathen opinion , that such statues , or protuberant pictures were by magick made capable of these ethereall spirits ; an abuse , of which the depresse pictures were not so capable . and hence it is ( not without reason ) that learned men that conceive the second commandment to prohibit none but the former ( peculiarly the graven image ) and to that purpose reade that which follows , by way of explication , not of disjunction , [ graven image , the likenesse ] &c. ( as it is deut. . . in the hebrew , not , [ or the likenesse ] do extend it even to the making , or having any such , and not onely to the worshiping of them . § thus , saith * maimon . it is forbidden to make images though it be onely {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} for ornament ; but then that , saith he , is to be understood of the images , that bunch out , or are embossed ; but for the painted or woven {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} they are not unlawfull : and he specifics very nicely that a ring that hath for a seal the figure of a man , if it be gibbous , or swelling out , is not it self lawfull to be worne , but yet it is lawfull to seal with it , because the impression , in that case , is hollow , not swelling out , and on the otherside if the seal be depresse , or hollow , it is lawfull to weare , but not to seal with it . chap. . § . . it is true this he restrains again , that none ( in this matter onely for ornament ) is forbidden , but the figure of a man ; but others in obedience to the words of the second command , extend it to the prohibition of all living creatures also , ( onely the inanimate , such was the golden vine in the temple , were excepted , ) and truly it seemeth very probable , that to the jews it was ( whether by the force of the second commandment , or by some precept elsewhere , or by the tradition of the elders , i say not ) conceived utterly unlawfull to have any such images , especially in their temples or places of worship ( unlesse in case of gods particular command , as the cherubim , and the brazen serpent ) yea and to bow in their presence in any place ; for this will maimons stating the severall cases convince to have been his opinion , and , as he conceived , the constant doctrine of the jews . i am sure they are appointed to be broken down , exod. . : and examples there are of the peoples practice that way , both in the story of herods trophies , and the eagle set up by him over the gate of the temple , and in many other particulars ; and the greek church at this day , though it hath pictures good store , yet i think it hath none of these embossed statues allowed in it ( which yet the lutherans use promiscuously , yea and clothe and adorn them too , and conceive not themselves to sin against any commandment of the law , because they do not worship them . ) § the reason of this prohibition to the jews , is by maimonides again cleared to be , not for any naturall primitive sinfulnesse in an image of a man &c. but onely for caution , ( and therefore within the vail whither the eyes of the people were not permitted to enter , god himself appoints the cherubims to be set up , and solomon graved cherubims upon the walls of the greater house , . chron. . . that is , in the body of the temple i conceive , because none but the priests did come in thither , luke . , . ) to hedge and keep them from all danger of falling into the heathen worships , and upon the obligation of the words of that text , exod. . . beware &c. lest it be a snare unto thee . § and therefore it is further resolved , that all those images were unlawfull to them , ( and perhaps none but these . ) wch idolatours used in their worship ; and so the specifying of the three sorts in the commandment may argue , [ the things in heaven , in earth , in the waters ] , from each of which the severall follies of men had fetched their deities . to instance onely in the last and lowest of them , that the crocodiles in the river were so accounted of among the egyptians is clear ( among many other ) by one notable relation in max. tyr. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . there was a woman , saith he , in egypt that nursed up a young crocodile , and was counted a mighty happy person {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as one that had brought her god to hand , and kept it tame by her ; this woman , saith he , had a sonne {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , of the age of the god , and when they grew up to some bignesse , the crocodile killed and devoured the child , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , she in her mourning for her sonne pronounced him blest in this death , that he was thus offered up a present to her domestick god . and they which could worship such wild vulture gods , could not much be blamed , if they deified every onion in the garden , much more every starre in the skie , which sure deserved their acknowledgement much better then the vulture of the sea the crocodile , had done . § agreeable to this interdict of caution among the jews ( extended onely to those images which were so abused by the heathens ) is the designe of those homilies in our book , concerning the peril of idolatry , which though they acknowledge that * images be of themselves things indifferent , and that * men are not so ready to worship a picture on a wall , or in a window , as an embossed and gilt image set with pearl and stone , and professe ( in the beginning of the third part of the homily ) that all which is said , is thus meant , [ in that we be stirred and provoked by images to worship them , and not as though they were simply forbidden by the new testament , without such occasion and danger ] and count it a piece of superstition , and scrupulosity to abhorre all pictures , as images of princes , &c. which , saith that homily , christ saw on the romane coyns and reprehended them not , nor condemned the art of painting and image-making as wicked of themselves , p. . yet , in respect of the frequency of that sinne in those times of the so eminent danger that images in churches would be worshiped , and all possible means would not be probable to secure the use of them against that danger , they do with great earnestnesse exhort the not setting them up , especially in countrey churches , where the number of the ignorant may much enhaunce that danger ; and it may be observed that in the articles of our church we make acknowledgement of that whole book of homilies , that they were usefull and profitable for those times , wherein ( being so lately gotten out of popery where image-worship was so ordinary ) the danger was so great of falling back , upon every temptation , to that sinne . and though the homilies be wary and carefull to prevent another contrary danger , lest any private persons under colour of destroying images should make any stirre or disturbance in the common-wealth , and therefore addeth * that it must alwayes be remembred that the redresse of such publick enormities pertaineth to the magistrate , and such as be in authority onely , and not to private persons , yet to those whose duty it is to take care for the people that they be godly as well as quietly governed , the exhortation is very instantly pressed , that ( after the pattern of hezekiah , &c. ) they perform this part of their duty , viz. that as hezekiah did in the case of the brazen serpent , so the magistrate whensoever he sees images to be abused , or the people apt to worship them , think himself obliged in conscience to appoint them to be removed in care of the honour of god , and the peoples good . and this is certainly very good and wholesome doctrine , and nothing more reasonable , then that he which is defendour of the faith , should take care to defend the impotent seducible weakling ( i mean not the railer at images , who sure is of all others the safest from that danger of worshiping them , and consequently disclaims any want of that fatherly caution , ) from such imminent peril ( when any such there is ) of this image-worship . and that this is the supreme magistrates charge , and belongs not to any inferiour , further then to execuse what he commands , might be evidenced from the doctrine and censures of the church , in the case of the iconoclastae , if it were now pertinent . to this i shall onely adde ( that which i conceive other mens experience of themselves will incline them to believe ) that the worship of images or any thing but god , is not a thing to which english protestants for these late years ( especially the catechized and knowing ) have generally had any strong temptations , at least not such in any comparison , as immediately after the reformation , the minds of men ( before used to such ignorant vanities ) were subject to . and i doubt not but many men that have frequented churches , and places where pictures have been , can sincerely upon examination of their memories , say with me , that they are not conscious to themselves , that they ever found themselves under any inclination or danger of falling into any act of image-worship . which consideration , if it be true , ( as i cannot but perswade my self it is ) will take off much from the necessity of continuing those strict cautions ( of not permitting any kind of image in any church , and the like ) which some other times or inclinations of men might make more necessary , and consequently take off much from the odium which the way of adorning some churches with imagery hath lately laine under . § what was said of having embossed images among the jews may be enlarged also to bodily gestures , whether religious to god , or civil to our superiours , in any place where images are ; for both these seem to have been interdicted the jews , at least by them to have been accounted unlawfull ( as will at large appear by maimonides in the book forecited ) though the heart were never so farre from worshiping the images . but then though the jews were under that strict restraint , yet aliens , proselytes , of other nations , were not bound to that strictnesse ; but naaman is permitted by the prophet to go with his heathen master into the house of rimmon , and ( when the master worships there , and leans upon his hand ) to now himself in the house of rimmon , kings . . upon this ground , first , that he never went into the idol-temple , but to wait upon his master in the office which he had . secondly , that he professed himself to all , ( even to that heathen master , and those that were in his court ) to be a worshiper of none but of the true god , and to that end carried two mule-loads of earth out of palestine with him , v. . in honour of him whose name was great there , and to build an altar , according to the prescript , exod. . . by which it was sufficiently clear to the beholders , ( as by an interpretative protestation ) that , when his master worshiped , he onely bowed , and then his bowing was onely civil to his master the king , not religious to rimmon or saturn , or his image there ; and therefore to his question whether god will be offended with him in that matter , the prophet answers him with a [ go in peace . ] i cannot think so irreverently of the prophet , as that he should make that answer ironically to his new convert ( any more then i can believe naamans scruple belonged onely to the former part of his life ( reading it in the praeter sense ) for sure that had been guilty of the worshiping the idol , and not onely bowing in the house of rimmon ) but that he meant in earnest , what alone the words import , that in thus doing , and no more , he need not fear that he should be a breaker of that law , which in this particular was not given to him , or any but those of that nation , or people of the jews ; for it is an ordinary observation , that gentiles or aliens were received in among the jews under a double capacity , either as proselytes of justices , to submit to the whole judaicall law , to every rite and positive precept of it ; or else onely as proselytes of the gates ( and such was naaman ) to submit to the seven precepts of the sonnes of adam and noah ( and no more ) among which the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} of the strange worship , or idolatry was one , and so a necessity imposed on them of casting off the idol . worship , but not of not bowing to the king in the presence of an idol , unlesse the case were of such a gesture that in that nation were performed to none but the deity in worship ( the reason that the grecians refused once to bow to the persian king , because that reverence was there performed to none but god ) which was not the manner then in syria , but veneration and even prostration paid to the king as well as to god . thus much i have said on occasion of the first sort of images , the embossed and protuberant among the jews ; and shall not need to descend to a more particular survey of the second sort , it being already manifest that the reason that prevailed to prohibit the very having the former among the jews , did not even in their opinion extend unto the latter . and for worshiping , though the latter were not among them so likely to occasion that sinne , yet if any jew should have been so mad to worship any such image , the sinne it is acknowledged , would have been as great , as that which was committed with the grosser corporeous object , and so will it hold infallibly among all others . § thus farre have i gone on the ancient old testament notion of an idol , and the idolatry forbidden there . it may now be fit to proceed one step further , and to enquire whether there may not possibly be in the christian church , such a sinne as idolatry , that is , whether he that acknowledges the christians god , and worships no heathen deity , much lesse image of such , may not yet possibly fall into that sinne of idolatry , as that signifies worshiping somewhat else beside the invisible god , be it an image of god , or else a saint , or angel , or somewhat else clothed in some respect or relation to god . § and here will be no necessitie or use of drawing a formall charge ( in this matter ) against any particular man or church , or possibility of defining ( from books especially ) which ( or whether any whole ) church or sort of christians at this day ) are guilty of this sinne , because it is to be expected that the writings of prudent men will be so cautious , as not to accuse themselves in this matter ; as even now i gave you an example from maximus tyrius a platonick heathen in the description of it among the gentiles . yet because * some number of sober men which have lived in the romane communion hath given me occasion , i shall interpose my wish , that the care which by their writers is taken for excuse of the doctrine of the learned , were used for the directing and examining of the practices of the ignorant also . i shall therefore set down in thesi what may , according to the grounds laid in the former part of this discourse , conclude a christian guilty of idolatry , and leave every mans own conscience ( and among all others the romanists ) to examine , and as occasion shall be , to accuse himself , and every christian to advise and exhort ( but withall to abstain as much as is possible from judging ) other men . § and first , i conceive that he that ( by doctrine , and action ) attributes to any creature , particularly to an angel , those things which belong peculiarly to god , though he acknowledge the true god , is yet guilty of that sinne , as truly as those heathens that worshiped the creature {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} beside the creatour , rom. . that is , worshiped god , but not god onely . ( thus the arrians were condemned of idolatry , that affirming christ to be a creature and not god incarnate , they did yet bestow divine honour on him , and so nestorius in like manner , and his followers styled {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} man-worshipers , and both these sentences confirmed by the second councel of nice , which is thought so favourable to images . ) as for example . § to attribute to the angels omniscience , omnipotence , &c. that is , that the angels can freely understand all mens prayers , and as freely grant them their wants , is , i conceive , a piece of idolatry , [ freely ] i say , and i mean by the word [ freely ] their doing it by their own originall power , and not onely by gods revealing the one to them , or by giving them power to do the other . as for him , that supposes the angels to know all things which god pleases to reveal to them , by looking upon god as on a voluntary glasse ( as biel sets it ) and withall believes , that god reveals all things to them so , and that thereupon they know by that means whatsoever any man saith to them at any distance ; or again , for him that conceives them to see all things in the world by seeing gods face , and looking on it as in a naturall glasse , that reveals all that god knows without any choice , or act of his will ( as some others set it ) , these may be very erroneous , yea and ( if they teach them for doctrines ) be guilty of sinne , in that ( but speculative ) mistaking , namely the sinne of dogmatizing , of affirming for matter of faith that for which they have no ground of scripture or evidence ( which i conceive to be the fault charged on such , col. . in the phrase {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , undertaking to penetrate , or know what men know nothing of , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , vainly puffed up with the thoughts of their own flesh , their own reason , or fancie , fictions of men , ( gnosticks , &c. ) without any revelation from god ) yet can i not say , that these are idolatours by so conceiving , or thinking , or affirming , by imagining these vain or false things , if they go no further : ( as they that came into the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , into the presence of images , but worshiped them not . ) but then if they adde practice to conceit , worshiping those whom they have elevated to that pitch ; build altars , make offices , pray to them , especially in the house ( or in the time of the service ) of god , they do by this action , adde a greater aggravation to the speculative sinne , and for ought i know , fall into a kind of idol-worship , fancying angels to be what they are not , and then paying them that adoration which is due onely to god , at least they fall inro a prohibited act , by neglecting the onely christian course of making our addresses onely by christ to god , which i conceive is the meaning of {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , col. . . let no man deprive you of that christian bravium or prize , ] the peculiarity of priviledge of coming unto god by christ onely . the same will be said of offering sacrifice , incense , or the like unto them ( acts of worship and so peculiar to god ( making vows or swearing by them , asking grace , pardon of sinnes , or salvation of them . § as for the * angelici in the primitive church , who conceived that nothing was to be asked of god but what was by the petitioner committed first to one angel , then from him to another , and so by those many degrees brought to god , this may be thought a first rise of the sinne of angel-worship , somewhat parallel to that , which we gave you from maimonides of the heathen idolatry . what hath now been said , must be taken with some caution , and it is this , that to bow to an angel appearing to any man , ( which civility we pay to any superiour ) would not come under this censure . a consideration which hath made some wise men think that the angels refusing of worship at saint johns hands in the revelation , chap. . . was not the rejecting it as an act of idolatry ( or any kind of sinne if it had been accepted ) but as an evidence of the angels acknowledging himself johns fellow servant ( the reason which is there rendred in the text ) and so not superiour to him in that office . but to this it may be said , that the angels admonition [ worship god ] that follows , may possibly argue that john took the angel for god appearing ▪ and accordingly worshiped him , and therefore i shall not define . but then still for any other reverence or bowing , but that of divine adoration , there is no question but it may be performed to a man , when we meet him , and then much more unto an angel ; and that any gesture of reverence shall passe for divine adoration , will , i conceive , be onely in the power of god , and each mans own soul to define , the same outward act being ( without any danger ) performable both to man and god , and nothing but the intention of the person making the difference . much lesse will the worshiping of god , when an angel appears to us , ( as supposing god to be peculiarly present where those his satellites or courtiers appear ) come under that charge , nor consequently doing it in the church ( peculiarly at the first * entrance into that holy place ) where the angels are supposed to be present ( the angels singing with us , saith chrysostome , and angelus orationis , saith tertullian , and the presence of whom in the church is used by saint paul , as an argument for the decent behaviour of women in that place ) as jacob at the appearing of the angels both put off his shoes from his feet , and resolved that god was in that place , and that it was no other but the house of god , or gate of heaven . § nor will it be the sinne of idolatry to beseech that angel , ( in case he appear to me ) to joyne with me , or help me , or to commend my wants to god in his prayers , any more then it will be , to request the like favour of any fellow-christian upon earth . the idolatry is either in the heart , the giving him a free unlimited power , or in the actions praying to him , as supposing he had such power , and not the bare observing , ( and reverencing accordingly ) his created power or dignity , held from god by way of dignation , or desiring him , ( when he comes within my reach ) to discharge any office of charity to me . § the same may be said again of the saints in heaven , that the beseeching them to bestow mercies upon me , the putting up those petitions to the blessed virgin , &c. which are terminated in her self ( as many forms , if not her whole office may appear to be ) are , over and above the errour of thinking her able to relieve them , acts parrallel to that old idolatry also ; and the thinking them to come to the knowledge of our prayers in speculo again , is a presumption in a matter of which scripture hath told us nothing , and so may fall under the fore-mentioned accusation . yet so again , that if it were sure to any , chat any saint doth hear his demands , it were certainly no fault to begge that favour of him , which were in his free power to bestow , and which we ordinarily demand of one another , that is , the joyning with , or for us , assisting and reinforcing our prayers to god . and supposing that they do not hear or understand what he saith , yet what guilt shall lie on him that thinks they do , and speaks accordingly to them , i omit now to define , because it is not to my present purpose , which was onely to enquire what is idolatry , not folly , what worshiping or praying for help , to that which is not god , not speaking to them to pray for us which cannot hear . § next for images either of god , christ , or angels , or saints , many particulars may be resolved and avowed from the principles of discourse already laid , . that to conceive them able to hear and help by virtue of him , whose image they are , is a spice of that heathen doctrine of [ images being the bodies of the gods ] ( of their being animated by those whose images they were ) which had among them its foundation in sorcery , and then was the ground of idol-worship ; and it were happy if some * ignorant christians in some places , were not either willingly betrayed to , or uncharitably kept in this barbarous rudenesse . so again will it be , . to pray to , or to bestow any act of divine worship on any such image in any respect ; for that supposes , and is built on the former conceit , and so a worshiping of that which is not god ; and what is that but idolatry ? i say , in any respect , and i mean with any distinction of mediante imagine , or relativè , &c. for first it is an unreasonable thing for them , to whom the law is given , to make a distinction by which it may in some sence be lawfull not to keep it , such distinctions must be made by the law-giver , or else they are not safe . . although it be to god also , mediante imagine , that is , first fastning my act of worship upon the image , as the next or immediate object , and then mediately on god , this is clearly to worship the image , though not the image alone , and that must be image-worship , or . though it be onely relativè to the image in relation to god , whose image it is , this is again worshiping that image , though not that image onely , and that will not rescue the worshiping of an image from the censure of image-worship , any more then the affirming faith to justifie instrumentaliter relativè , is not the affirming it to justifie . § as for the difference betwixt image-worship and idolatry , or idol-worship , if any such be pretended from the difference between image and idolum , it will not be worth our pains to examine it , because the worshiping of any thing which is not god , be it image or idol , christian or heathen similitude , or any thing else , will fall under the guilt which now we speak of . § but then . on the other side to worship god ( and none but god ) in a church where images are ( without so much as fixing the eye on them in the act of adoration ) to use an image onely for ornament ( in a kingdome were image-work , hangings , and pictures , do passe for the noblest way of adorning those places which we most prize ) to pray or to bow down to god ( and to him onely ) in a church where such representations are set up ( for beauty , or as an indifferent thing ) without any the most inferiour degree of worship to them , ( nay with a protestation of renouncing and detesting it ) cannot be affirmed idolatry , without either affirming god to be an idol , or else [ not worshiping ] to be [ worshiping ] nor indeed be liable to any guilt unlesse it be in order to scandall , which how farre it is to prevail , as we have already given an intimation , so the grounds of defining have sufficiently been laid down in another discourse . § and so for the reverent usage of an image , if it signifie no more then the using it civily for his sake , or in remembrance of him whose superscription it bears , especially if that be but a privative reverence , ( a not using it vilely and contumeliously ) or whatever may not come under the stile of a positive act of adoration , this is no part of religious worship , any more then the laying of a bible on the table , and not on the ground , &c. but if it be the actuall bestowing of worship on that inanimate thing , as on the next ( though not last ) object , i mean bestowing that adoration on the image ( though in a lower degree ) in one act , which in another is given to god , worshiping the image for gods sake ( the relative worship ) or god mediante imagine , so that the image be either the object , or part of the object of any one act of worship , it will fall under the censure of image-worship . § thus doth the capitular of charles the great charge it on the bishop of cyprus in the second councell of nice , that he allows the image the same worship which belongs unto the trinity ; ( and some learned papists , aquinas , bellarmine , &c , have done little lesse ) but he that will survey the greek acts of that councell , will find the capitular mistaken . for when the greek reades , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i perform that adoration of worship to none but the trinity , ( and faith of the images , onely {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. i receive and embrace them reverently ) the capitular reades it in a quite contrary sense , for having said , servitium adorationis quod trinitati debetur , ei se redditurum garrierit ( which though it hath no great hurt in it , because the word [ ei ] that follows , may apply it to trinitati , and cannot referre to imagines , yet by [ gorrierit ] it apears the capitular did not take it so ) it is added , servitium soli debitum creatori , exhibere se fatetur creaturis , &c. which is a plain calumny to that bishop , and even contrary to the former part of the relation , ( the latine words cited from the councell ) if the [ ei ] be taken notice of . § as for the very making of an image of god the father . who never was clothed in flesh , or visible form . if it be on designe so to represent him , or if ( being made ) it be received as a resemblance , or . image of him , this is a most irrationall folly or mistake , for which there is no excuse ; and though it be not idolatry , unlesse being thus made it be worshipt also , yet is it a direct contradiction to one great end of gods prohibiting images , viz. that all men be admonished that he is invisible ; and it is worth observing , that the ancienter of the heathens themselves have resolved god to be so farre from any visible shape , that they would not allow the making any image or picture of him . thus empedocles , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. no mans head , or feet , or knees , or other limmes to be conceived in god . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. but a sacred in-effable mind ; so saith plutarch in numa ; that pythagoras {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , conceived god ( under the title of the first ▪ ) to be invisible , &c. and that on those grounds numa forbad the romanes , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , to conceive god to have the shape of any creature , or to have {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , any formed image of god . which saith he , continued for one hundred and seventy years after the building of rome , no {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , image of any form to be seen in their temples . so faith gerson , i remember , of the temple of peace in rome , which it seems was of that first erection , sine simulachro , sine imaginibus , it had no resemblance or image in it . so antiphanes of god ; that he is not known by an image , nor likened to any thing , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and therefore no man can learn him by the help of an image . and philoponus in his preface to aristotle de anima , conceives it very necessary to a pious man that would conceive , or pray to god as he ought , to study the mathematicks , by the help of which he may be able to abstract and separate {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , from matter , and so have a right notion of the deitie . so agreeable to the generall notion of wise heathens ( till a custome of sin had besotted them ) was that of god himself to moses , thou hast not seen any similitude at any time , deut. . . on which the making any image of him is prohibited . all which notwithstanding , if in the representation of a sacred story , there be set down any form , particularly an eye , a ray , a glory &c. not to expresse the person of god the father , but to stand for him , not to signifie any supposed likenesse of him ( which is impossible ) but onely to present him to the mind of the beholder , a doing some action of his ( which is in effect to do the very same thing in a table , which the word jehovah or god would do in a book ) i conceive not what charge could be laid on it , at least what degree or spice of idolatry , unlesse i must be thought to worship the name of god , because i write or reade it . § as for the resemblance of the man christ jesus , the bare expressing and not worshiping that form , that was so long visible on this earth , as this pretends no more to the painting of divinity , then the lines of a body can be thought to undertake to expresse the soul , ( and so cannot be accused of that imposture ) so will it not be lyable to any other charge with any that hath not resolved all pictures even of his own parents unlawfull . ( unlesse it be perhaps in order to the danger of being worshipt by others , which consequently ought very prudently to be weighed and considered , before any such be set up in any place , as before was touched . ) § and the same may be said of the pictures of holy men , the discourse wholly abstracting from worship , or designe , or thought of worship , as here it doth in our present consideration ; to which purpose it is observable , that calvin himself is by doctor reinolds produced , and avouched ( against bellarmines contrary slander ) to affirm the images of christ and the saints , non esse prohibitas simpliciter not to be simply prohibited ; and so in like manner , luther , the zuinglians , melancthon , and the madgeburgians , all detesting the worship of images , but not the images themselves . and so illyricus and peter martyr also , who thinks the worship of images to be a prime part of popish antichristianisme , doth yet resolve , christi & sanctorum imagines haberi rectè posse , modò ne colantur atque adorentur , that the images of christ and the saints may lawfully be had , so they be not worshiped . § : once more to worship the bread in the sacrament , must ( wheresoever it is to be met with ) certainly be idolatry too , in the literall notation of the word , that is , the worshiping that which is not god . and for those that do this on any the subtlest ground , that by any errour or mistake ( be it never so piously taken up ) do actually worship this bread , that first conceive it to be turned into the very body of christ , and the elements after consecration to be no longer bread and wine , but very christ incarnate , and thereupon do worship it . these i say , in case they be mistaken , and those elements be not so turned and transubstantiated into christ , though they are not guilty of the sinne of idolatry in all the aggravations that belonged to it among the heathen ; being not guilty of their {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the acknowledgement of the many gods , of which their image worship was an appendage , yet can i not free them from the charge of worshiping an idol , that is , somewhat which is not god , viz. a piece of consecrated bread , &c. § he that conceives this too sudden or severe a censure , may know that the papist-doctours are very ready to make confession of it themselves . if the elements be not so changed , saith costerus of transubstantiation , we papists are the meanest vilest kind of idolaters in the world , worse ( as i remember he addes ) then the laplanders that worshiped a red cloth , and there is no denying it upon that supposition , because it is part of the supposition , that what is so worshipt for god , is not god , and that is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} an idol in the scripture-sense , which is all that i have now said . § and if it be replyed that they worship nothing but what they conceive to be christ , and consequently that the ignorance and contrary perswasions which may be pretended for such acts in some men , particularly the romanists , may plead much for them in gods court , ( as we reade that the times of ignorance god winked at in some heathens , though that was an idolatrous ignorance , so farre at least as not to deprive them and their posterity of all means of recalling them ) i shall then answer , that so i shall hope ( and pray ) that it may do in this matter also , move gods mercy so farre at least , as ( if not to pardon the sinnes without repentance , yet ) to give grace to work a sight and a change in such seduced ignorants . § and then putting the case anew , whether , if the bread in the eucharist be not transubstantiate ( as , according to some other principles of the papists , i conceive it near demonstrable that it is not , that i mention not the direct contradictions which are affirmed or implyed in that doctrine ) and yet costerus and his friends think it is , supposing them to come honestly and blamelessely to these errours , if , i say , it be demanded , whether in this case [ that their ignorance or errour be grounded on misunderstanding of scripture ] this so simple and not grosse ignorance may serve for a sufficient antidote to allay the poyson of such a sinne ( of materiall though perhaps in them not formall idolatry , because if they were not verily perswaded , that it were god they professe , they would never think of worshiping it ) i shall then answer , that of this matter i had onely temptation to make , and set the question ( as before i had of prayer to saints , supposing the petitioner to believe that they could hear him ) but have now no necessity to define and satisfie it , being onely to consider what idolatry is , not how excusable ignorance or mistake can make it . yet something it will not be amisse to adde to direct our charity . § that this ignorance , or false opinion will not make the worshiping of bread ( remaining bread ) to be the worshiping of none but god , i conceive it is plain , or if it would , it would make the heathens worshiping of an image , to be the worshiping of none but that god whose image it was , for they sure believed as much that that image was by consecration become the body of god , and animated by it , as any papist believes transubstantiation . but whether this their errour was as capable of apology or pardon , being infused into them by their false teachers ( which yet they thought to be true ones , ) and pretended to revelation for it ( saith maimonides ) as this which is taken up upon the words of scripture , ( though in a mistaken and ( as i conceive ) impossible because contradictory , sence ) i shall now define no further , then by saying these two things . § first , that the heathen idolatry was the worshiping of the many false gods first , and then of the images of them , ( the former of which these men are not said , or thought to be guilty of ) secondly , that the more the conscience believes this errour to be a truth of gods , and the more innocently it comes to that beliefe , the easier in all probability will the sentence be another day ; that ignorance or mistake which sincerely and honestly ( without mixture of carnall principle , or designe , prejudice , or passion , &c. ) founds it self in the word of god mistaken , ( and would be laid aside , if sufficient instruction were offered ) being very justly the object of our pity and our prayers , and neither of our censure , nor scorn ; and if it were merely a speculative errour , and had not the happinesse of some impious practice attending it , i should make the lesse doubt of its obtaining pardon at gods hands ; and howsoever i will hope , it may still ( at that gracious tribunall ) be farre from being irremissible to him , who hath reformed his other known sinnes , and for all known and unknown is truly humbled . § this manner of stating of this difficulty , may in reason perswade them that are concerned in it , to be willing to see and reform their errour , if it be possible , or if prepossession have made it otherwise to them , yet in all justice not to expect of us , ( who professe to believe that the elements are not transubstantiate , and that the humane nature of christ is received and contained in , and confined to heaven , till the day of restitution of all things ; and this withall upon the same grounds , ( i mean of literall affirmation of scripture ) on which they professe to believe that this is christs body , and this neither contradicted by any other scripture , nor implying any thing like a contradiction in reason , nor a savagenesse or a sinne , as saint augustine saith eating of christs flesh doth , and that therefore it must not be literally interpreted ) to worship that which we think a creature , or somewhat which is not god , or anathematize us and separate from our communion for not doing so . § as for our church , which onely adores christ in the sacrament ( as that signifies the action , in which certainly christ is ) and not the elements themselves , nor christs body locally present under the shape of those elements , ( as certainly it cannot be , without either being no longer in heaven or being in more places then one at once ) which hath set the doctrine of that sacrament in a most exquisite temper to satisfie all rationall christian pretenders , in that most excellent catechisme in the liturgie , and in her practice allows the elements , no more then a reverent usage proportionable to such instruments of gods worship , ( which is both justified by * amesius , who assignes them a singular reverence in time of the use of them , and a privative kind of reverence after it ) there can be no shew of charge against it for so doing , nor consequently for kneeling at the time of receiving the sacrament which is onely a kneeling to god in prayer ( which might be now further enlarged on , but that it hath had its place in another * discourse ) unlesse it be a fault to worship christ , or to choose that time or place to do it in the lowlyest manner , when , and where he is eminently represented by the priest , and offered by god to us . § as for the east , or altar , or syllables of the name of jesus , he that must think them worshiped , by those who professe and protest to worship god , and none but god , ( that way or on that occasion ) must either be of a very short discourse , ( like them in athenaeus , that hearing men crie {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} god help , when the neighbour sneezed , thought the very thing which we call sneezing , or else the brain from which it came , to be a god so worshiped by men ) or else of a very pettish spleen , that can condemne the most blamelesse authorized practices , not onely of this present particular , but of the ancient universall church ( for the worshiping god toward the east was most eminently such ) upon any the most irrationall jealousie , or dislike . § and so lastly for the signe of the crosse , used by our church in baptisme , which hath been by some cryed down under the title of idolatry , two things it will not be amisse briefly to have observed , . that the same ground of zeal or passion that hath incited some men lately to charge it of a breach of the second commandment , hath long since moved * one of the same spirit to accuse it as a sinne against the other nine , and to intitle his severall chapters of the swearing , sabbath-breaking , murder , adultery , stealing , false witnesse , &c. and at last of the concupiscence of the crosse , as well as the idolatry of it , the reasons being much alike for the whole charge . . that the signing with the signe of the crosse in that sacrament , is somewhat distant from that which the papists use , and an act of departure from them , in king edwards second liturgie , more then had been in the first reformation . the former custome was to crosse the child at the church-doore , when it was brought to baptisme , but this of ours as a mark of initiation or reception into christs flock , immediately following baptisme , and a kind of tessera , or military signe that the person thus consigned into christs militia , shall for ever after think himself obliged manfully to fight , &c. a change made merely out of compliance with them who were jealous of too great an inclination to popery , and yet now charged with the guilt of that which it was on purpose designed to decline . § i should not i conceive be thought in earnest , if i should go about to vindicate the use of the liturgy , and of all set forms of prayer from this charge of idolatry ; it is true it hath been printed , that words in a book are images , and consequently that to pray before a book , or use a book in prayer , is idolatry , or image-worship . but till this argument be extended to all words spoken , as well as written , and so all vocall ( though it be extemporary ) prayer , condemned for idolatry also , i shall not conceive that disputer to have believed himself , nor consequently give him or my reader the trouble of an answer . in stead of extending this enquiry to the survey and vindication of those many other particulars , to which the fancies or furies of this last yeare have affixed this charge ; all that i have now to adde is onely this , that i shall beseech god to give such mistakers understanding first , and then charity , to make use of it to edification , and not to destruction , to the reforming their own sinnes and not condemning or reproching other mens laudable , at the least innocent actions . judge not , that ye be not judged of the lord . some few testimonies , which may tend to the clearing of the precedent observations , but could not conveniently be put in either , in the text or the margin of the book , i have here thought fit to affix by way of postscript . add. p. . ad lin. . in marg. thus among the romanes in their lustrations , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , sybil . orac . l. . p. . and speaking of the christians giving over idolatry , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. ] it is added immediately , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} &c. naming all the severall nations of the heathen world that were guilty of it , p. . and exhorting against idolatry , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} &c. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , p. . and that true pietie , as it is opposed to idol-worship , so to {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , & {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , l. . p. . & p. . and of the romanes again , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , p. . and so again , p. . add. p. . ad lin. . in marg. in this sense i conceive plato used the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . l. . where speaking of sensuall men , and comparing them to beasts , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , full fed and lascivious , he addes , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. or if you will needs have the notion of covetousnesse continued , yet i conceive the company that the word is so oft found in the new testament , will have such an influence on it , that it shall belong to that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , getting wealth by these unclean prostitutions , which sure is expressed by the authour of the sybylin oracles , l. . p. . where immediately after the mention of those impurities is subjoyned , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . add. p. . ad l. . in marg. to the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . so in the sybil . or : is this sinne expressed by {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . l. . p. . and the men guilty of it called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , pag. . ( the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , noting all immoderate desires or attempts , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , saith phavorinus ) and as it is immediately specified , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} so in phocylides , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , & {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , doth seem to import also . add. ad p. . l. . in marg. so in the sibyll oracles , l. . p. . with {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , those that had put off all shame , ] are joyned {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , ravishers , and pag. . with {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ( which sure belongs to the fury of inordinate lusts ) there is joyned {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , rapes and shamelesse lusts , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , secret loves ; and a {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the judgements of brimstone ( the portion of sodom for such sinnes ) follows in the end of that book . all which passages , though they cannot be thought to have that antiquity or authour , to which they pretend , are yet by our countrey man joannes opsopaeus , or cook , with great reasons supposed to be as ancient as the emperour commodus , and so will be worthy our heed , for a matter of no greater weight then is now laid on them . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- cor. . . cor. . . * orig. con . cels . just . mar. apol. clem. al. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . athenagoras . theop. ad autol. tatianus . theod. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . euseh . praep. eu. cyril . alexan. cont. iulian . tertul. a. pol. minut. felix . arnobius . lactantius . aug. de civit . dei . firmicus . * {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . * that that whole verse belongs to that matter will appear , if you view it in the originall . thus . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} thou hast been dissolute ( laxata 〈◊〉 dilatata ) {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} by thy lying with them ( so it is rendred num. . . ) thou hast cut them or made them eunuchs for thy self ( so {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} which perhaps we mistake for {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} covenant , doth signifie , and so the targum renders it {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} succidisti , detruneasti ) thou lovedst to lie with them , &c. * {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} raptoris bona publicanda , &c. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , hesych . * codex antiq. in coll. magd. ox. * vid. excerpta gemarae tr . sanhedr . c. . §. . * in thisbi . p. . * {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . * vide rom. . . * {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . irenaeus . * {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . hesyc . * aug. de civ. dei . l. . c , . * neque aera neque auri argentique materia quibus signa conhe●●nt , esse deos decernimus , sed eos ipsos in his colimus , quos dedicatio infert sacra , & fabrilibus efficit inhabitare simulach . is . a●nol . cont. genti . l. . * desacrif . & mag. * divin●● . in q. cacil . * aaron purgatus . * c. . . p. . lin. . p. . near the end . * p. . l. . * divos , divàsque non aliter venerantur quam deum ipsum , &c. lud. in aug. de civ l. . c. ult. vid. cassand. consult . de imag. polyd. virg. de rerum invent . l. . c. . § . * athanas cont. a●● . or●● . * eph. concil. cap. . * via con. cil . laod. can. . p. . & zo . nar . in can . ●tum , & judill in cod eccl univers. p. . § . * vid. view of the new directory , p. . & p. . * non video in multis quod discrimen sit inter ecrum opinionem de sanctis & id quod gentiles putabant de d●●s suis . lud vives ●n aug. de civ. l. . c. ult. of scandall . * case of consc. c. . * view of the new direct . p. . * parker on the crosse . a brief answer to the many calumnies of dr. henry more, in his pretended antidote against idolatry. shewing that no prudent person can, upon any rational ground, be deterr'd from returning to the communion of st. peter's chair, by any of the doctors best and strongest evidences to the contrary. walton, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a brief answer to the many calumnies of dr. henry more, in his pretended antidote against idolatry. shewing that no prudent person can, upon any rational ground, be deterr'd from returning to the communion of st. peter's chair, by any of the doctors best and strongest evidences to the contrary. walton, john, - . [ ], p. s.n.], [london : printed in the year . attributed to john walton by wing. place of publication suggested by wing. errata: foot of p. . reproduction of original in: newberry library, chicago, illinois. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng more, henry, - . -- antidote against idolatry. catholic church -- apologetic works. idols and images -- worship. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a brief answer to the many calumnies of dr. henry more , in his pretended antidote against idolatry . shewing that no prudent person can , upon any rational ground , be deterr'd from returning to the communion of . st. peter's chair , by any of the doctors best and strongest evidences to the contrary . printed in the year . advertisement . the reader may please to take notice , that what is here presented , was written about two years since , without any thought or intention as then , for the press ; only at the request , & for the satisfaction of some worthy friends . but now , whereas , besides dr. more , dr. stillingfleet hath thought it not below his name and abilities to descend to the like foul and injurious calumnies , in his late book concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome ; the present juncture , and concern of the affair , may seem to render discourses of this nature , no less necessary , than seasonable , for the undeceiving of the many unfortunately-misguided souls , whose leaders ( to speak favourably ) seem not to understand , what themselves object . this i say , because i know no other more civil construction , or indeed possible vindication ( such as it is ) of their many failings . as for dr. stillingst et i shal not forestall the intentions of better and abler penns , so much as to step aside to any particular digression against him . nor indeed do i meet with any thing considerable in him , relating to this subject , which may not easily be answered out of this reply to dr. more ; both of them joyning in a like treble charge of idolatry against the adoration of the eucharist , invocation of saints , and the due honor and veneration of images . brief ●nswer to the many calumnies of dr. henry more , in his pretended antidote against idolatry . shewing that no prudent person can , upon any rational ground , be deterr'd from returning to the communion of st. peter's chair , by any of the doctors best and strongest evidences to the contrary . doctor henry more is a person , whose learning and parts have brought him into a name , amongst the professors of the refined arts and sciences . fame speaks him a great philosopher . and his publick works are said to avouch no less . nay , some have passed so far in favour of his character , as to term him , the great restorer of the platonick cabbala . and truly , if this be so , i conceive the gentleman had done himself a great deal of right , if he had still kept to his own element ; for as much as his late unlucky engaging in controversial disputes , cannot but prove a blot to his former undertakings : for the learned world must needs acknowledg that dr. more the controvertist , is much degenerated from dr. more the philosopher . he hath lately set forth an exposition of the seven epistles , to the seven churches of asia . the whole piece is of a pure romantick strain , wherein the authors fancy being broken loose from the command of reason , and leaping over all boundaries of church-authority , and the faith of his ancestors , runs on at elevenscore , as if he were upon a warm sent , giving chase to some of his platonick ideas : to this he has adjoyned , a pretended antidote against idolatry , with application to the council of trent , and for the putting a stop ( as he phrases it ) to the romish infection . his most formidable weapon is that harsh and unmanly rhetorick , called railing . his phrase is rough , and clogged with much dirt , which he throwes too bountifully upon persons , which never deserved it at his hands . his objections are bold , uncivil , irreligious ; not without a deep tincture of geneva . and therefore were it not , that the opinion of his supposed abilities , may cast a favourable reflection , upon all that issues from his brain , and gain credit to his antidote , amongst his vulgar zealots , to the irreparable dammage of their souls , his work might have lain neglected , as without a reader , so without an adversary . but in regard the doctor has prefixed his name to the book as author ; and that a great name is a great argument with some , to evince the truth of the contents ; and that no doctrine is so absurd , but may spread under the professed patronage of a fam'd divine ; therefore some things must be said by way of rejoynder to the antidote , lest some unwary readers seeing the doctor so full gorg'd against popish idolatry , and repeating his invectives almost in every page with endless tautologies , should tamely suffer themselves to be born down the stream with big words , and think all is gospel and well-grounded , that falls with so much noise and confidence from the mouth of a doctor . and indeed i am already informed , that some well-meaning protestants , who have a great kindness for the author , and no less a value for the work , have call'd for an answer to it , with a kind of insulting accent , as conceiving that no such answer could be given . they ( poor souls ) thinking , that surely the doctor would never have been so positive in his assertions , if the strength of his evidences were not such , as might bear all the stress he lays upon them . wherefore seeing the concern of souls is at stake , whom he seeks by a pernicious wile to seduce , venting poyson guilded over with the specious title of an antidote ; the design of these few pages is , to summe up briefly the doctors arguments , allowing to each a due reflexion , and to represent the nullity and inconclusiveness of all that is material in him , as to his foul and odious charge of idolatry , drawn up against his , and our common mother-church . the first section . containing an answer to his first chapter . there are two ways in general ( says the doctor ) of discovering what is , or ought to be held idolatry amongst christians ; the one , divine declaration ; the other , clear and perspicuous reason . and accordingly he spends his first chapter in explicating what idolatry is according to divine declaration : and his second pretends to declare , what idolatry is according to the determination of clear and free reason . these are the titles of the two first chapters . the first of which , ( to the end he might give us a treatise , girt up in the most close and convictive method that may be ; for so speaks his preface : ) he thought good to divide into ten several conclusions , as principles of his ensuing discourse : to each of which i shall speak singly by it self , taking them in the same order they lie . the first conclusion tells us , that as in civil governments it is the right of the supreme power to define and declare , what shall be , or be held to be treason , and punishable as such : so it is most manifestly the right of god almighty , who is also infinitely good and wise , to define and declare unto his people , what shall be , or be held to be idolatry . to this conclusion , i only return this brief remark ; that the learned simile , wherin the doctor spends very many words , might well have been dispensed with , without any offence to logick , or impeachment to the authors judgment : for the simile seems to aim at the clearing and setling the unquestionable prerogative of an increated power , upon the right of a meer humane jurisdiction . which is in effect an unskilful piece of hysteron proteron ; making a truth of the highest rank to truckle-under an inferiour principle ; which ( considering there is no power but of god , rom. . ) can have no truth in it , but by presupposing that very truth , which it pretends to illustrate and establish . his second conclusion would universally beg our belief , that what is declared idolatry by god to the jews , ought to be acknowledged idolatry by us christians . first , because christianity being a far more spiritual religion , than that of judaisme , there cannot be the lest relaxation to the most rancid of all superstitions , idolatry . secondly , because all kind of idolatry being forbidden in the second commandement ; and the whole decalogue being moral , christians can plead no exemption from it , any more than jews . now that the whole decalogue is moral , he makes some needless attempts to prove , chiefly for the second commandements sake . all which proofs , 't is easie to take off by this single answer . i say then , that as to the second commandement ( supposing at present the first table divided into four precepts ) if he expound that commandement so , as only to prohibit the making and worshipping of idols , or images of false gods , i shall readily grant it to be moral , and strictly binding , both as to jews and christians . but if he puts any other meaning upon the text , he begs the question : and he must excuse me , if i call for his further proof , not to evidence the morality of the decalogue in general , or of this commandement in particular , but also as taken in that particular sense , which he gives it . this i say , because i conceive , the doctor will not stick to grant that one and the same precept of the decalog , may be ( as considered under a double respect ) both moral and ceremonial . secondly , that some , both catholick and protestant divines own no more than a ceremonial precept in the second commandement , if extended to an universal prohibition of all images , and under that notion given only to the jews . and to call this a relaxation to idolatry amongst christians , ( as the doctor does ) may prove an argument of his mistake , but none to evidence the truth of his conclusion ; no more than the generally allowed use of servile works upon saturday , can be called a relaxation to the breach of the sabbath . but , because the doctor is so positive in his hitherto-unproved conclusion , i have an instance for him to pause upon , if he please to accept of it . some of the learned , grounding themselves upon the first of kings , ch . . and chron. . . are of opinion , that burning incense was a sacrifice in the old law , as not being permitted to the laity , but tyed only to the priestly function ; and that the hebrews did sacrifice in this sort to the brazen serpent . now , i would gladly know , by what certain topicks the doctor will evince , either that burning incense was not a sacrifice in the old law , or that it is a sacrifice and act of latria in the new ? unless he means to draw an universal consequence from deuteronomy to the gospel , and so to thrust our heads under moses his girdle , and make us stoop to all the legalities of the old testament : the doctor proceeds to his third conclusion , that whatever was idolatry in the heathen , the same is idolatry in us , if we commit it . i doubt much whether the doctor understands his own conclusion : for the assertion , taken as it lies in its ●are expressions , sounds like one of those identick positions , which surfeit of too much truth : as much as to say , we are guilty of heathenish idolatry , if we commit heathenish idolatry : but , if the doctors meaning be , that whatever external act of worship was idolatry in the heathen , is also idolatry in us , if applyed by us to any other being on this side god ; then i have a case to offer to his second and better thoughts : suppose then that some of saint paul's new converts , whom in christ jesus he had begotten by the gospel , looking upon him as their spiritual father , had paid him the duty of the knee , humbly asking his blessing : and that a heathen of lycaonia , had at the same time , upon his knees adored the apostle for the god mercury , ( as some of them were ready to do , acts . ) is it the doctor 's sense , that this external act of worship , which in the heathen would questionless have been idolatry , must also be so in the christian ? if so , then his conclusion is abundantly confused by the daily and uncontroulable practise of protestants themselves , kneeling to their parents , god-fathers and god-mothers . whence it evidently appears , that the same kind of external act , which in a heathen is idolatry , may prove duty in a christian . the fourth conclusion , the idolatry of the pagans , says the doctor , consisted in this , viz. in that they either took something to be the supreme god , that was not , and worshipped it for such ; or else worshipped the supreme god in an image ; or gave religious worship , that is to say , erected altars , temples and images , offered sacrifice , made vows to , and invoked such , as they themselves knew not to be the supreme god , but either the souls of men departed , or other demons , or else particular appearances or powers of nature . and concerning these demons , he adds in his eighth conclusion , that the pagans demons exquisitely answer to the christian saints and angels , in this point ; saving that this spiritual fornication is a rape upon our saints and angels , but single fornication in the heathen with thier impure demons . thus far the modest doctor . but what proof does he give us for all this ? truly he does not so much as offer at any . and in that , we must not envy him the due commendations of his discretion : for the best proof of a proofless assertion is silence . of all the doctor 's conclusions , there is none more intrinseck and fundamental to the subject now under debate ; nor any that ought to speak more , or doth speak less to the point , than this . for it is most fondly erroneous , and most disingenuously obtruded upon the easy credulity of the vulgar ; that the pagans demons exquisitely answer to the christians saints and angels . and no less proofless and false is it , that they ( the pagans ) worshipped the supreme god in an image . but on the contrary , ( instead of worshipping the supreme god in an image , ) his conclusion should have added for another branch of pagan idolatry ; that they worshipped their very images for gods : they call'd them gods ; they took them for gods ; they sacrificed to them as gods . and the same is to be said of those souls of men departed , demons or other particular appearances , or powers of nature ; all which they took and worshipped for gods : for gods i say ; which , this mincing conclusion seeks most warily to conceal . first then , that they called their images , gods , ( to omit other instances ) is clear from dan. . . they drank wine , and praised the gods of gold , and of silver , of brass , of iron , of wood , and of stone . secondly , that they took their images for gods is as clear . why else does the spirit of god labour so much in holy writ , to awake and reason the gentiles out of their folly , by proving that their images , or idols were not gods , if they did not take them for such ? did not the heathen charge s. paul , that he had perswaded and turned away much people , saying that they be no gods , which are made with hands ? therefore sure an easie logick may conclude they took them for gods . does not the learned arnobius , ( once a heathen himself ) bewailing his former blindness in the first of his seven books against the gentiles , profess to all the world , that he gave divine worship , and prayd to images , taking stocks and stones , the works of the hammer and anvil for gods ? thirdly , they sacrificed to their images , either as gods , or at lest as images of false gods . some , in their images adored devils , according to that of psal . . . omnes dii gentium daemonia : or , as your translation reads it , all the gods of the nations are idols . and , cor. . the things which the gentiles sacrifice , they sacrifice to devils , and not to god. others , in their images worshipped the souls of men. α and it has been fully proved by s. austine , that divers of the pagans gods were men . β others there were , who in their images adored some parts of the material world ; as in the image of apollo , the sun ; in the image of neptune , the sea ; and so of others . γ lastly , there were those , who conceiving the world to be animated , worshipped the souls of those material parts ; as of sun , moon , earth , &c. is there any the lest hint here , either from divine or humane record , of the pagans worshipping the supreme god in an image , but rather the contrary ; viz. that the things , which the gentiles sacrifice , they sacrifice to devils , and not to god. cor. . can any sober divinity brook such an inference from these premises , that the pagans demons exquisitely answer to our saints and angels ? do we worship saints and angels for gods ? do we call them gods ? do we take them for gods ? do we sacrifice to them as gods ? far be it , as from our hearts to intend it , so from an ingenuous adversary to object it . the next conclusion that comes in play is the fifth , that both divine declaration , and the common consent of christendom do avouch to us , that all the aforesaid pagan modes of idolatry practised by them , were in those pagans practises of idolatry . all the answer that truth can allow to this fifth conclusion , is nego suppositum : for the doctor here supposeth that he hath given us a true and adequate division of the pagan idolatry , in the precedent conclusion , according both to divine declaration , and the common consent of christendom ; whereas i have already shew'd his hypothesis to be false , and laid open his foul and gross mistakes ; ( 't is a favour to call them so : ) which indeed are such , as might invite a modest man to wipe his pen , and lay it aside , till he had taught it a more awful regard to ingenuity and truth . the sixth conclusion : that giving religious worship , that is to say ; erecting temples , building altars , invoking , makeing vows , and the like , to what is not the supreme god , though not as to him , but as to some inferiour helpful beeing , is manifest idolatry . this sixth conclusion looks back upon the fifth , and calls to it for help . but till the fifth has learned to stand upon its own leggs , it is not in a condition to lend any proof or ●upport to its neighbours . and so i might pass over this sixth conclusion , as proofless ; but only that the doctor calls me back to hear a confirmation of it ; saying , that idolatry was very rare amongst the nations , especially the romans , if this mode of idolatry , be not truly idolatry : and searce any thing will be found idolatry amongst them , but taking that to be the supreme god , which is not , and adoring it for such . this discourse whereby the doctor confirms his conclusion , minds me of a passage in eusebius , concerning the number of the pagan gods . triginta , inquit , deorum millia in terra esse censet hesiodus ; ego autem multo plures lapideos , atque ligneos homines creatores esse video . eusebius here adds to hesiod's thirty thousand gods , many more of his own observation ; amongst which , one only could be supreme , and the rest must needs sit down with the title of inferiour deities . now comes the doctors sixth conclusion , and tells us that giving religious worship , to what is not the supreme god , though not as to him , but as to some inferiour helpful beeing , is idolatry . why so ? because , says the doctor , unless we grant this , ( that is , unless we grant that , the worshipping of some thirty thousand inferiour deities , ( for those are his inferiour helpful beeings : ) is idolatry , ) a great and manifest inconvenience will follow , to wit , that idolatry was very rare amongst the nations ; and scarce any thing will be found idolatry amongst them , but taking that to be the supreme god , which is not , and worshipping it for such . which being so profound a truth , i conceive sew of the most severe and cynical complexions can pass it over without a smile . but if the doctor should chance to reply , that by ( an inferiour helpful beeing ) he means not an inferiour helpful deity , but something else best known to himself ; then his confirmation is most false , viz. that scarce any thing will be found idolatry amongst the heathens , but taking that for the supreme god , which is not , and worshiping it for such ; when as we find , they worshipped so many thousand deities : so that , whether he understand by ( inferiour helpful being ) an inferiour deity , or no , his confirmation is either false , or ridiculous . before i proceed to the seventh conclusion , let me entreat the reader 's patience for a brief parenthesis : catholicks usually distinguish two sorts of worship : for example , to sacrifice , say they , to erect temples and altars , are acts of latria , that is , of the highest religious worship possible , only due to the one almighty and everlasting god , the first principle and end of all created beeings . though none of these acts , neither sacrifice it self , nor dedication of temple or altar , excludes a secondary remembrance , or titular honour of the saints . there are other acts of an inferiour respect , which the doctor may at his pleasure , without offending catholick divinity , chuse whether he will call a religious worship , or no : as the honour we give to saints and their images , burning incense or candles , bowing the body , and the like . these acts are of themselves indifferent , and variously determinable , by the particular tendency of the inward affection , either to a divine , or only a civil worship . as for instance sake , abraham with the same kind of incurvation of body , did adore god , gen. . worship angels , gen. . and men , gen. . where we evidently find that the same posture of bowing the body , only as intentionally directed by a different application of the heart , is a divine worship , in respect of god ; an inferior kind of worship , in respect of angels , and a civil worship as referr'd to men. wherefore he who will speak distinctly to the catholick tenet , must distinguish these several modes of worship one from another ; or else shew cause why , he ranks them all , under one and the same species of religious worship . otherwise he will make it appear , that he loves darkness more than light , and seeks not to cope with his adversary like a scholar . haveing premised this observation . — the doctor 's seventh conclusion , which speaks thus ; ( that to sacrifice , or burn incense , or make any religious obeysance , or incurvation to an image in any wise , as to an object of this worship , is idolatry by divine declaration . ) this conclusion , i say , will appear to have as much pertinent sense in it , as if a junto of civilians being requested to declare by a common vote , what murther is ; should give-in their learned answer , with a resolved upon the question , that to take away a man's life wilfully , and without cause ; or to cut off a limb , or draw blood , is murther . just such a wild medley of truth and falshood , is the doctor 's conclusion . sacrificing to an image , and bowing to an image , suit not well together . the first is idolatry , and the very crime which the catholick church condemns in carpocrates , and his adherents . but , that bowing to an image of christ , or his saints , should be idolatry ; rather then bowing to the ark of the covenant ; or that honouring the picture of jesus , rather than the name of jesus , should be liable to the like exception ; this , i say , should have been more strongly proved than by meerly alledging a broken text of scripture , thou shalt not bow to them , nor worship them ; which yet is all the doctor does , save only an old thred-bare gloss upon it , which shall presently be answered . only first i observe , that when protestants read this their second commandment , thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image , or any likeness , that is in heaven above , or that is in the water , under the earth ; thou shalt not bow down thy self to them , nor serve them ▪ ) and withall are informed that papists make pictures and images of christ , place them in their churches , put off their hats , and bow the knee before them , presently they endite the practise within their brests as guilty of idolatry ; most inconsiderately , no less than uncharitably , charging idolatry upon the practice of the church , for doing those self-same things , which god himself commanded the jews to do , to whom he gave this very precept . did not god command moses to make two cherubims of gold in the two ends of the mercy-seat ? were there not graven cherubims on the walls of the temple ? were not the two cherubims in the most holy place , of image-work ? were not the people to pray in the temple , and commanded to worship at the foot-stool of our lord , that is , the ark of the covenant ; over which were the cherubims of image-work ! and could this possibly be done , without bowing before images ? behold now what an irrefragable consequence is drawn from hence . god himself commanded the making of images , even after he had given the second commandment of the decalogue : ergo , papists can make no images , but they are idolaters . images were placed in god's own temple ; ergo , papists are idolaters in placing images in their churches . god's people were commanded to bow down and prostrate themselves where it could not be done , without bowing before images : ergo , papists , who kneel before an image are idolaters . if protestants did but reflect how much this mistake of theirs is against scripture , as well as against charity , they would be more sparing of their censures . now to the objection , thou shalt not bow down to them , nor worship them : of which undoubtedly the sense is , ( says the doctor ) they shall not be in any wise the object of that worship , which thou performest in a religious way — for the second commandement certainly is a declaration of the mind of god touching religious worship . let us understand one another ▪ that we may not have any cavil about words . the catholick church no where commands us to call the honour exhibited to saints and their images , a religious honour or worship . but , with the doctor 's good leave , why may there not be some intermediate kinds of worship , between a divine , and a meer civil worship ? why may we not say , that such was the worship , which was given to the ark ? which abraham gave to the angels ? and which we are all commanded to give to the name of jesus ▪ nay , why may we not add , that the honour and respect of the knee , which is given to god-fathers , and god-mothers is such , as being not founded upon any bare relation of blood , or any meer natural , or civil excellency , but given wholly upon a spiritual account ? and how is it proved , that such an intermediate honour as this , may not securely be given to saints , and their images ? let the doctor find out a suitable name for it , besides that of religious , and we shall not stand upon terms with him , but freely speak his language . but if nothing will serve his turn , but that religious and divine worship must be all one . then we utterly deny that we are in any wise concerned in his objection : for we give no such religious worship to the saints themselves , much less to their images . and i shall show in my ▪ answer to his eighth chapter , how weakly and disingenuously he makes use of the second council of nice to make out his charge against us . the eighth conclusion , scorning to be behind the seventh in point of scholarship , loudly proclaims , that to erect temples , altars , images , or to burn incense to saints and angels , to invoke them , or make vows to them , and the like is plain idolatry . this conclusion for its proof appeals to the testimony of four false witnesses , to wit , the third , fourth , fifth , and sixth conclusions ; and as such , i justly except against them . the ninth ; religious incurvation towards a crucifix or the host , or any image , as to an object , and not a meer unconsidered accidental circumstance , is idolatry . this conclusion having thus coldly drawn up an enditement against us , pleads its evidence out of the seventh and eighth conclusions ; and so leaning upon two broken reeds , falls to the ground , where i am sure , neither reason or authority wil ever stoop to take it up . we are now arrived at the tenth conclusion , where we are told , that to use on set purpose , in religious worship , any figure or image only circumstantially , not objectively , but so as to bow towards it , or to be upon a man's knees before it , with eyes and hands devoutly lifted up towards it . — yet this even taken in its most favourable circumstances , is a most wicked and impious mocking of god ; says the doctor . and he adds , that if the image be the object of these postures and incurvations , ( as it seems to him plain , and beyond all questioning that it will be so ) then he says it will be idolatry . to this i return , that i hope the ethicks cannot be offended with me , no more than divinity can be able to reprove me , if i say , this conclusion gives god the lie , and makes him the approver , commander and rewarder of sin , even idolatry it self . for god promised a reward to prayer made in the temple , chron. . . where notwithstanding there were graved angels or cherubims upon the wals . and he commanded his people to adore the ark , over which were cherubims or angels of image-work ; where the worshipper could not possibly make his addresses , but he must needs bow at lest circumstantially , though not objectively towards an image . and yet pray'r , even thus circumstanced , was approved , commanded , and declared by god himself rewardable . now this is the very posture , both for act and object , which cannot down with the doctor , but he must needs have it to be idolatry ; and his most charitable gloss upon the action , can afford it no name , under an impious and wicked mocking of god. whence if reason may be allowed to make the inference , the doctor 's tenth conclusion must needs be found guilty of giving god the lie , and making him the approver , commander , and rewarder of sin , even the sin of idolatry . having thus made our way through all the doctor 's ten conclusions , the reader may please to observe , how far he forgets himself , and over-runs the title of his chapter , insomuch that he scarce ever faces about to it from the beginning to the end : for whereas the title promised to deliver , what idolatry is according to divine declaration ; and that he himself makes his boast in the end of this chapter ; to have abundantly convinced the church of rome of multifarious idolatries ; if they will stand , says he , to divine definitions , or the declarations of holy scripture in this point ; yet on the contrary 't is evident , there are not even so many scripture-quotations , in this point , as may make up so much as a duall number . the only way then for the doctor to make out the title of his chapter , and his vapouring rodomontado against god's church , is to deify his own conceptions ; that is , to make his own word pass for the word of god , and his authority for divine . and then truly we have no reason to be offended at him , for taking upon himself so kindly that very imputation , which he seeks no less weakly than injuriously to pin upon the doctrine and practice of the church . the second section . in answer to the doctor 's second chapter . this chapter , compared with the former , is but a second part to the same tune : longer in words , but as weak in performances to the full , as its predecessor . the title promises to declare , what idolatry is according to the determination of clear and free reason ; and this in . several conclusions . his first , second , and third conclusions quite digress from the charge in hand , showing what a grievous sin idolatry is : which is much more largely and learnedly declared by our own authors , and readily granted by us , with this further allowance , that if he can fix the crime upon us , with any shew of reason , we shall freely acknowledg our guilt to be of a double dye , to what it was in the jew or gentile . the fourth and fifth , tell us that idolatry necessarily involves in it , ignorance , or mistake , in the act of worship , or the object . the fifth advances a step further , and concludes very abruptly , that because all idolatry involves in it some ignorance or mistake ; therefore no ignorance or mistake can excuse from idolatry : very learnedly : from the fourth and fifth , the doctor makes a long stride to his one and twentieth conclusion , where he peremptorily concludes , that because mistake does not excuse him from idolatry , by conclusion the fourth and fifth , therefore the adoration of any object , which we out of mistake , conceive to be the true god , made visible by hypostatical union therewith , is manifest idolatry . thus he . but let us put the case , that some christian , contemporary to christ our lord , whilst he so journed upon earth , had through meer mistake , adored some other person , for christ : here the query arises , whether this man's error would have pleaded his excuse , i , or no ? the reformed churches of france , in their apology by daille ' declare for the affirmative . and truly reason seems clearly to be on their side . for what reason or equity will condemn a loyal subject , who intending an address to his prince , should take hephestion , for alexander , a peer for his soveraign , and so make tender of his allegiance to another person , whom he innocently mistakes for his prince ? let us parallel the two cases . as this loyal subject's address is intended only to his prince ; so the christians address in the instance above-said , is directed only to jesus christ . in both these cases there intervenes an error of fact : both the religious and civil worship being misplaced as to the circumstance , though not as to the object . and why this error should be imputable , either to treason in the one case , or to idolatry in the other ? or , why more to idolatry in the one case , then to treason in the other ? is that , which it will concern the doctor to speak to , if he means to maintain his conclusion . and till he hath done this , he shall never be able to prove , what he aims at in his . conclusion , that any idolatry is committed though it should so fall out , through inadvertence , or any other accident , that an unconsecrated , or untransubstantiated host , were exposed to the veneration of the people : for as no adoration is here due , so none is intended , but only to jesus christ , adorable where-ever he is . the th . th . th . th . th . th . th . th . th . th . and th . conclusions talk big against invocation of saints . but the best speaks amongst them are the th . th . and th . the eighth leads the van in these terms : any actions , gestures , or words , directed to any creature as to an object , which naturally imply or signify either the incommunicable or incommunicated eminencies of god , is the giving that worship , that is the right and due of god alone ; to that creature , and that injury against the divine majesty , which is termed idolatry . then follows the tenth , and in a high and mighty language speaks thus : an omnipercipient omnipresence , which does hear , and see whatever is said or transacted in the world , whether considered in the whole , or as distributed into terrestrial , celestial , and supercelestial ; not only all these omnipercipiences , but any one of them is a certain excellency in god , and for ought we know , incommunicated to any creature . the twelfth brings up the rear with an ergo ; if omnipresence or omnipercipience , at lest terrestrial ( if not celestial ) be not communicated to saints and angels by god , the invocation of either is palpable idolatry . behold then the doctor 's argument . invocation implies an incommunicated excellency in the saints ; viz. an omnipercipient omnipresence , at lest terrestrial , if not celestial ; and so communicates that right to them , that appertains only to god. ergo invocation of saints and angels is palpable idolatry . now if we can but acquit our selves handsomely in a fair return to this argument , all the rest that is to be found in the abovesaid . conclusions , will amount to no more than meer empty and insignificant nothings . we may consider then the state of the church , with reference to different circumstances of time . the one wherein it was a question amongst the orthodox , whether the saints entred into heaven before the day of judgment , or were confined to some other place of rest , excluded from the beatifick vision ? and this was not fully determined till the council of florence , which council cleared the point , defineing that the souls of the dead , as soon as cleansed from all sin , are received into heaven , and see god clearly , as he is in himself . now as for those elder centuries before the council of florence , they held invocation of saints , for an undoubted truth , though some of them doubted , whether they heard our prayers or no ; because no church-definition had as then ascertained them of their full beatitude . let venerable antiquity speak for it self by the mouth of a saint austine , who in his book de cura pro mortuis , c. . speaks thus . this question exceeds the reach of my judgment , how the martyrs relieve those , who are certainly assisted by them ? whether they are pre●ent by themselves , at the same time , in so many several places where the benefit of their succour is received ? or being retired from the conversation of men , in some place proportioned to their merits ▪ and there interceding for the relief of those that call upon them , as we pray for the dead , who are not really present with them ; and know not how they are , nor what they do : god omnipotent and ever present , hearing the prayers of the martyrs , grants to men by the ministery of angels , those helps where he will , when he will , and how he pleaseth . thus b. s. austine . here we have it from an undoubted work of this great saint and doctor , ( owned by himself in his retractations ) first , that invocation of saints was the constant , avowed practise of those elder and purer days . secondly , ( contrary to the doctor 's th . conclusion , and all his pharisaical scruples . ) here is a sure and certain ground of this invocation ; to wit , unquestionable , ancient , and immemorial possession , and the often experienced benefit of it by those , who addressing themselves to the holy martyrs mediation , were ( says s. austine ) certainly assisted by them . thirdly , that the saints presence , at the same time in so many several places , ( which is equivalent to the doctor 's terrestrial omnipercipient omnipresence ) does not at all in saint austine's opinion , either imply an impossibility , or entrench upon any of the divine excellencies ; for then he would certainly have rejected it , which yet he does not . fourthly , waving this omnipercipient omnipresence , s. austine renders it easily intelligible , how the saints might ( even without that , and without their hearing our prayers ) relieve those that called upon them : viz. god omnipotent and ever present hearing the prayers of the martyrs , and granting to men , by the ministery of angels those helps — when he will , where he will , and how he pleaseth . out of all which , i deduce this inference , which is home to the point , that , if s. austine be to be credited before dr. more , it is good and profitable to invocate the saints , though we knew not whether they heard us or no. and till the doctor can prove the contrary , his main hypothesis upon which he builds , ( to wit , that an omnipercipient omnipresence is the only ground of invocation of saints ) is fundamentally subverted , and all his vapouring pretences of idolatry , end in smoke and fancy . this which i have already said , renders invocation of saints maintainable , though it were not certain they heard us ; which yet is most certain from their blissful vision of god , not gain-said even by protestants : for if devils appear , and assist witches and sorcerers upon their invocation , shall we deny this to the saints in glory ? the saints are as the angels of god in heaven , mat. . . and of the angels 't is written : see you despise not one of these little ones , for i say unto you , their angels in heaven always see the face of my father which is in heaven : mat. . . and again , there shall be joy in , heaven upon one sinner that doth pennance , luc. . . why therefore cannot the saints hear our prayers , as the angels see the contempt of one of those little ones , and as those in heaven see the repentance of a sinner ? the schools indeed may freely dispute how this is done , and every one may freely abound in his own sense , and offer their several modes and ways ; and learned dr. more , may ( as he does , p. . ) in calling them all extremely ridiculous , render himself no less ridiculous in his weak censure ; and when all this is done , the uncertainty of the manner does not argue against the certainty of the thing it self : for it is a fixed uncontroulable maxime in the principles of christianity , that , potest constare de re , quando non constat de modo rei ; and he who denies this , may with equal ground except against the mystery of the incarnation , together with the incomprehensibility of the unity and trinity of god. in the next place follows the ninth conclusion , which was left behind , as a stragler from the rest of the flock , being owned by none of its next neighbours as any thing akin to them , and speaks thus ; that the using any of those actions or gestures , or doing any of those things , that the true and supreme god did chuse and challenge in the setting out the mode of his own worship , towards or in reference to any creature , as to an object , is idolatry . because such a mode of worship does thus manifestly appear to be the peculiar right of god , which none can transfer to another , but god himself . thus the doctor . let us then state the question , whether any of those exterior actions or gestures , which god did chuse in the setting out the mode of his own worship , for example , incurvation or bowing down the body may be exhibited to a creature without idolatry ? no , replys the doctor . let us now take this conclusion for granted , and see what will be the sequel . the using any of those actions , or gestures , says he , that the true and supreme god did chuse and challenge , in the setting out the mode of his own worship , towards , or in reference to any creature , as to an object , is idolatry . but according to his sixteenth conclusion , incurvation of the body is one of the actions , or gestures , which god did chuse , in setting out the mode of his own worship : ergo , incurvation towards or in reference to any creature , as to an object , is idolatry . now i subsume : but abraham used this incurvation towards men , and angels , gen. . and . and the beloved disciple of jesus reiterated the like incurvation towards an angel , apoc. . . i shall leave the ( ergo ) to the doctor : for the premises being his , i shall not envy him the glory of the conclusion , which makes abraham , and saint john idolaters . the th . th . th . and th . talk much of a symbolical presence , and incurvation towards it . whereof the th . refers to the ninth , and has its answer there . the th . that the pagans worshipping their demons , though not as the supreme god , by symbolical presences , &c. become ipso facto idolaters . to this i have already answered , shewing that the pagans gave the worship and title of deities to their demons , and therefore became ipso facto idolaters . the th . defines magisterially ; that incurvation in way of religion towards an open or bare symbolical presence , be it whatever figure or image , as to an object , is flat idolatry . here i would gladly know of the doctor , why he calls a figure , or image a symbolical presence , but only because the image is a sign or token , signifying or representing the person , whose image it is ? then i enquire further , whether ( for the same reason ) the name of a person , be not a symbolical presence in its kind , as well as the image ? forasmuch as both of them are signs or tokens representing the same thing , with this only difference , that the image represents it to the eye , the name to the ear ? and why then , may we not bow to the image of jesus , as well as to the name of jesus ? or how can the one be condemned of idolatry , but the other must incur the like brand ? the th . harping still upon the same string of a symbolical presence , will needs maintain , that religious incurvation towards a bare symbolical presence , wittingly and conscientiously directed thither , though with a mental reserve , that they intend to use it meerly as a circumstance of worship , is notwithstanding real idolatry . to me this conclusion seems big with a spirit of contradiction , as being manifestly against scripture , against the practice of the church of england , and lastly against dr. more himself . that it is clearly against scripture , ( besides what i have said in my answer to the last conclusion of the first chapter ) is sufficiently evidenced from the incurvation the scripture commands to the name of jesus ; which is as much a religious incurvation , as any we give to those symbolical presences , called images . that it is against the practise of the church of england , and proves that all protestants , who kneel at the eucharist are idolaters , i conceive to be no less manifest : for protestants in their communion acknowledge [ see the protestant rubrick after communion . ] no corporal and real , but a bare figurative and symbolical presence of christs natural flesh and blood . and religious incurvation towards a symbolical presence , being real idolatry , according to the doctor : what follows by a clear sequel , but that all protestants , who bow the knee at the eucharist , are idolaters ? and if the protestant-communicant , in his vindication , chance to fly to a mental reserve , and allege for his excuse , that he uses it meerly as a circumstance of worship ; and that his intention terminates not in the symbolical presence , but looks up to the person of jesus christ ; the doctor will smilingly tell him , ( for they are his own words in the like case ▪ concl. . ) that direction of our intention here is but a jesuitical juggle , and that the using it meerly as a circumstance of worship , is idolatry ; and so he cuts him off from that plea , and leaves him without all excuse . thirdly , that it is against the doctor , i appeal to the doctor himself , by bringing his th . and his th . conclusions face to face . the th . openly avoucheth , that the erecting of a symbolical presence with incurvation thither ward , was declared by the supreme god , the god of israel , one of the manners of worship due to him . the th . runs counter , and stifly presseth , that religious incurvation towards a symbolical presence ( without exception of any ) wittingly and conscientiously directed thither , is real idolatry . these two conclusions , as i conceive , do thwart each other no less , than if he had said in direct terms : all religious incurvation towards a symbolical presence , is idolatry : not all religious incurvation towards a symbolical presence , is idolatry : for the th . is a universal affirmative , and maintains the first ; the th . implies no less , than what is asserted in the second . the th . and th . conclusions weakly cavil at the adoration of the host , as idolatrous either in catholiques or protestants . but these petty niblers at the most blessed and ever adorable sacrament shall have their answer in the next chapter , where the doctor treats this subject ex professo : only here i add , that for protestants indeed to adore the sacrament , who believe no corporal presence of christ there ; but that the sacramental bread and wine remain still in their natural substances ( so speaks their abovesaid rubrick : ) would be the like crime , as for an unconverted jew to adore jesus christ , in whom he believes not . but what is this to the doctor 's purpose ? both the jew and the protestant lie under the prejudice of an erroneous perswasion , which upon application to rational and sound motives , may and ought to be deposed . in the th . and last conclusion , the doctor starts a pretended objection against his charge of idolatry in the adoration of the eucharist , and overflows whole pages in answer to it . but the catholique church makes no such reply , nor stands in need of any such vindication of her doctrine and practise . and therefore i leave the doctor to the pleasure of his own thoughts , raising his aery castle with one hand , and beating it down with the other . and so i pass on to the third section . the third section . which answers to the doctors third chapter . the title of this chapter delivers it self in these terms ; that the romanists worship the host with the highest kind of worship , even that of latria , according to the injunction of the council of trent , and that it is most gross idolatry so to do . it had been ingenuous in the doctor , whilst he states catholique doctrine , to speak catholique language . the council of trent ( even as quoted by himself ) mentions not the host , but only the adoration of the blessed sacrament , or ( which is the same ) of jesus christ in the sacrament . which is a quite different thing from that uncatholique expression of worshipping the host : for catholick principles own nothing of the host to remain after consecration , but the species or symbols . nor does the council enjoyn the worship of latria to the symbols , but to jesus christ veiled with the symbols . in this chapter , the doctor pretends to undeniable demonstration ; which , if we take it summ'd up briefly , and girt up in his close and convictive method , gives us this brisk assault . transubstantiation is a meer figment and enormous falshood ( so he speaks , p. . ) ergo the adoration of the eucharist is palpable idolatry . the greatest part of the chapter is spent in proof of his antecedent . the consequence he conceives no less then evident : because if the doctrine of transubstantiation be false , then the cultus latriae is exhibited to a meer creature : and costerus the jesuit sticks not to grant the sequel ; viz. that if our church be mistaken in the doctrin of transubstantiation , we ipso facto stand guilty of such a piece of idolatry , as never was before seen or known in this world. i answer : first , as to costerus , the doctor deals not fair●y with him ; for costerus does not so much as name transubstantiation in that place . secondly , the doctor , both here and elsewhere boasts much of costerus his concession , but wholly mistakes the ground of it . costerus argues thus ; if in the sacrament of the eucharist the true body of christ be not contained , christ has dealt unworthily with his church , as having abandoned , and permitted her to fall , and continue for fifteen hundred years together , in such error and idolatry , the like to which was never seen nor heard of , and all this , by occasion of his own words . here is the ground of costerus his concession : if the true body of christ be not in the sacrament of the eucharist , christ had dealt unworthily with his church ; and by consequence would not be the true christ ; and therefore the adoration of the eucharist , would be , not only a mistake , as to the circumstance , but also as to the , object ; there being no such adorable object in the world , as a true christ , according to this supposition , and so the cultus latria would be exhibited to a meer creature . wherefore , to gratify the doctor , if he can but prove his antecedent , that transubstantiation is a meer figment , and enormous falshood , i shall not at all dispute his consequence with him , but willingly grant as much as costerus to the full . he begins then , and undertakes to evince by undeniable demonstration , that the doctrin of transubstantiation is false . for , says he , thus the body of christ will be in god knows how many thousand places at once , and how many thousand miles distant one from another . whereas amphitruo ( says the doctor ) expostulates with his servant sosia , and rates him for a mad-man or impostor , that he would make him believe , that he could be in two places at once . this indeed is a fair demonstration that dr. more is acquainted with plautus his comedies , and can ( when he pleases ) descend from the divinity chair to a piece of unseasonable mirth and stage-drollery . but let this pass , as a pleasant skirmish before the main charge . in the next place he musters up all the arts and sciences , logick , physicks , metaphysicks , and mathematicks , against us , to prove that one body cannot be in two places at once . his first evidence is drawn from the physicks . it is a principle , says he , of physicks , that that internal space , that a body occupies at one time , is equal to the body that occupies it . now let us suppose one and the same body occupy two such internal places or spaces at once . this body is therefore equal to those two spaces , which are double to one single space ; wherefore the body is double to that body in one single space ; and therefore one and the same body double to it self ; which is an enormous contradiction . to this objection , i answer : respicientes ad pauca facile definiunt . the doctor reckons here without his host . you say , mr. doctor , 't is a principle in physicks , that the space which a body occupies , must be equal to the body that occupies it . but what physicks tell you , that a body in one place , occupying a space equal to it self , cannot possibly at the same time be elsewhere , without occupying there any place at all ; ( that is ) be present there , without a local presence ? and if this can possibly be , your physicks are quite struck dumb , and your demonstration blown up from its very foundation . now that this supposition is more than meerly possible , is clear from the common opinion of the learned , who maintain that actually the supreme heaven occupies no place . secondly , allowing the doctor his own supposition ; that one and the same body , at the same time occupies two different places , equal to it self . what follows ? therefore first , ( replies the doctor ) this body is equal to those two spaces , which are double to one single space . therefore dly , the body is double to that body in one single space . and therefore dly , one and the same body is double to it self . i deny all these three therefores ; which are no more than meer empty paralogismes . let us examine the first inference ( of which the two others depend ) concluding from the bodies being in two places at once , that the said body is equal to those two spaces . what needs that , mr. doctor ? it is enough that in each of those two spaces , it be only equal or commensurate to that determinate place it there occupies ( suppose of six cubits ; ) and in neither of them , equal or commensurate to a space of . cubits . but yet further , admit the body were made equal to those two spaces , which are double to one single space . how does it follow from hence , that the body is double to it self ? let us suppose a body of one cubit , rarified to its double dimension of two cubits . will philosophy allow this inference for current ? viz. this body is now equal to two places , which are double to a place of one single cubit . therefore the body is double to that body , in the place of one single cubit ; therefore double to it self . what answer you give to this instance , will serve for an answer to your own argument . again , let us take a rational soul , informing a body a span in length : then let us suppose the same body grown up to two spans , and still informed by the same soul . behold now another parallel of the doctor 's argument . this soul is co-extended and commensurate to two spans , which are double to one single span ; therefore the soul is double to that soul , which was under one span ; therfore double to it self . is not this rare divinity ? let the doctor show a material disparity in these two cases , or else acknowledg the inconclusiveness of his own objection . but he may please to remember , that the places being continued , or discontinued , in one or the other case , will nothing avail him , unless he can demonstrate , that which the schools will not easily subscribe unto ; to wit , that each subject ows its unity , to the unity of place ; and not to its own intrinsick essence . thus much in answer to his physicks . in his second objection , the metaphisicks are up in armes against us , in defence of their great maxime ; that the notion of unum , is to be indivisum a se , as well as divisum a quolibet alio . the first part of which maxime seems to be manifestly infringed by us , putting a possibility of one bodies being in more places at once : for in this case , the body will be divisum a se , and both unum and multa . thus the doctor . and i shall crave the favour to return my answer in the same language the objection speaks . to the first then , i reply thus : it will be divisum a se secundum substantiam ; i deny it . it will be divisum a se quoad locum ; transeat . then secondly , i deny , that it will be unum & multa ; but only unum in multis : one and the same in many places . secondly , i answer to the objection , that the doctor here rowles the same stone , and relapses into the same error , which was reproved in the former objection , as building upon a false and ruinous bottom ; for he supposes that essential unity is derived from the unity of local presence , and not from the intrinsick principles of the subject : for unless we grant this supposition , it will not follow , that the same body being in divers places at once is divided from it self , any more than it is divided from its intrinsick principles , which it can never be by plurality of local presence , they being wholly extrinsecal to the subject . thirdly , i answer , that both this , and the precedent objection are of pernicious consequence , as putting armes into the hands of infidels , to attempt against the mistery of the ever adorable trinity . for , as the doctor argues , that if one body can be in two places at once , it will follow that the said body is double to it self : so it may be concluded with ' greater plausibility by the antitrinitarian , that if one and the same divine nature , can be in three distinct persons at once , it will follow that the same nature will be treble to it self . and as he objects that from the hypothesis of one bodies being in divers places at once , the sequel will be , that the same body will be divisum a se , contrary to one piece of a metaphysical principle ; of the notion of unum , being indivisum a se : so may the antitrinitarian object with a more close logick , that from the hypothesis of one nature being in three distinct persons , the sequel will be , that the same nature will be divisa a se , and also not divisa ab aliis ( because really identified with three distinct persons ) which is contrary to the whole metaphysical principle of the notion of unum , being indivisum a se , & divisum a quolibet alio . and if there be any disparity in the case , it is wholly on the antitrinitarians side , and to his advantage . the doctor 's third objection is from the mathematicks . i shall give it verbatim from his own pen. the council of trent saying , that in the separation of the parts of the species ( that which bears the outward show of bread and wine ) that from this division , there is a parting of the whole , divided into so many entire bodies of christ , the body of christ being always at the same time equal to it self , it follows that a part of the division is equal to the whole , against that common notion in euclid , that the whole is bigger than the part . the reader may please to take notice that the doctor here gives us his own paraphrase for the words of the council . now to the objection . surely the mathematicks , which lent the doctor this notion , never gave him commission to abuse his borrowed principle by so unskilful a misapplication : for his argument is this : it follows from the council's doctrine , that a part of the division is equal to the whole , contrary to the generally established notion of the mathematicks , that the whole is bigger than the part. i answer : the argument is meer cobweb stuff ; half an eye is enough to look through it : for these words of the doctors ( that a part of the division is equal to the whole ) either refer to the species ( and then it is false that a part of the division is equal to the whole ) or they point at the body of christ ( and then the words are de subjecto non supponente : ) for there is no division of any part of christ's body from the whole . his fourth objection is from logick . in logick ( says the doctor ) it is a maxime , that the parts agree indeed with the whole , but disagree one with another . but in the abovesaid division of the host or sacrament , the parts do so well agree , that they are entirely the very same individual thing . and whereas any division , whether logical or physical , is the division of some one into many , this is but the division of one into one , and it self . my answer to this is , that i may with much more reason say , that this and the precedent objection is but the division of one into one and it self . for this is the same in effect with the former , and requires no new answer . because these his trifling expressions , if applied to the separated species , are false ; if to christs body , then they proceed upon a false supposition ; as hath been declared in my answer to the third objection . and therefore logick hath great reason to take it ill at the doctor 's hands , for making her instrumental to such an illogical discourse . but the doctor distrusting the strength of his logick , calls in his metaphysicks again to her relief , and gives us a fifth and mixed objection from logick and metaphysicks . transubstantiation , says he , implies that the same thing is , and is not at the same time . for that individual thing , that can be , and is to be made of any thing , is not . now the individual body of christ is to be made of the wafer consecrated , for it is turned into his individual body . but his individual body was before the consecration . wherefore it was , and it was not at the same time . which is against that fundamental principle in logick and metaphysicks , that both parts of a contradiction cannot be true : or that the same thing cannot both be , and not be at once . thus far the doctor in his own expressions . now before i answer his objection ; there are two or three particulars deserve a cursory reflection . and first a knowing reader cannot chuse but smile to see , ( can be ) or a capacity of being brought in for a piece of an argument to prove that a thing is not : that individual thing that can be ( says the doctor ) and is to be made of any thing , is not . secondly , it is here observable , how fondly the doctor plays the confident dogmatizer , asserting as evident ( for in this chapter he professedly pretends to evidence an undeniable demonstration . ) that that individual thing that can be and is to be made of any thing , is not . as if forsooth it were evidently demonstrable , that that individual thing , which is to day actually in being , could not possibly be destroy'd , and made anew again to morrow by a second generation . for if this be absolutely possible , it will be false to day to utter this proposition : ( that individual thing that can be , and is to be made of any thing , is not . ) and is not this rashly to fetter god's omnipotency , and to go about to wrest a power out of his almighty hand , which he may have , for any thing the doctor knows to the contrary . thirdly , it is pitty to observe his words in the next proposition . the individual body of christ , says he , is to be made of the wafer consecrated . which implies as much as if the water were the material cause of christ's body . what philosopher ever spoke thus unphilosophically ? yet to make amends , he immediately contradicts himself , and adds , that the wafer is turned ( or converted ) into his individual body . which is a much different thing from being made of the wafer . but the particle ( for ) goes beyond wonder . the individual body of christ is made of the wafer consecrated ( mark the word ) for it is turned into his individual body . which is a piece of as learned non-sense , as if he said in open terms , because the wafer is turned into christ's body , by a total conversion , which excludes a material cause ; therefore his body is made of the wafer by generation , which requires a material cause . thus unfortunate are the acts and sciences , when they engage against god's church . i come now to his argument . transubstantiation , says he , implies that the same thing is , and is not , at the same time . this i deny . first , because physicks have rendred it probable , that a thing which actually is , may be reproduced , without losing its actual existence . and if we should say , that christs body is thus reproduced in the sacrament , it will not follow , that the body of christ is , and is not at once : to wit , before the consecration : but only that it is by a first production , and is not by a second production , till after the consecration . secondly , i will assign the doctor another way , whereby to evade his contradiction : for as in nutrition and augmentation , when new matter is added to the body , ( by conversion of our food and sustenance into flesh ) the soul presently begins to inform this new matter . and there is no need of producing a new soul , which was not before ; but only the soul begins to be , where it was not before : so when the host is converted into the body of christ , no necessity enforces us to grant the production of a new body , which was not before , but only that the body begins to be , where it was not before . let the impartial reader now judge what great cause the doctor had to cry victory before his time , and so manfully to word us down , and conclude hector-like , as he does ; that nothing could be more fully and entirely contradictious , and repugnant to all sense and reason , to all indubitable principles of all art and science , then this figment of transubstantiation : so that any one ( says he ) that is not a meer bigot , may be as assured that transubstantiation is a meer figment , or enormous falshood , as of any thing else in the whole world. i wonder whether they be not as meer bigots , with the doctor , whoever believe the mistery of the holy trinity . for let him but compare the mysteries of transubstantiation and trinity together , and then he shall be to me more than a great apollo , if he can shew that there is any thing more fully and entirely contradictious , and repugnant to all sense and reason , to all indubitable principles of all art and science , in the first mistery , then in the later . and that any one who is not a meer bigot may be more assured , that transubstantiation is a meer figment or enormous falshood , then trinity . and i desire him to instance in particular by what argument he has attempted to conclude the impossibility of one bodies being in divers places at once , which is not emboldened from hence to lift up its head much more plausibly against the unity and trinity of god , to evince the impossibility of one divine nature in three distinct persons , really identified with each person , and yet most strictly one in essence , undistinguish'd and undivided from it self . if dr. more would proceed as every good and well-grounded christian ought to do , he should rather make the seeming impossibility of these two mysteries an argument of their being true and divinely inspired doctrines : for so we may rightly say in respect of both ; the more incredible , the more credible . that is , by how much the more incredible these mysteries are , if we only consult our senses , and the bare sentiments of the natural man ; by so much the more credible it is , that there lies a divine revelation at the bottome ; and that no art , perswasion , force , or any thing else in the whole world , but a divine authority , could ever have wrought so firm and general a belief in the hearts of men of such high and transcendent objects . the fourth section . containing an answer to the fourth fifth and sixth chapters . in the entrance of the fourth chapter the doctor falls foul upon the council of trent , for teaching , that the saints raigning with christ offer up their prayers for men ; and that it is good and profitable humbly to invocate them , and to fly to their mediation , aid and succour , for the obtaining of god's blessings , through jesus christ his son. this the doctor terms making the saints the more exactly like the pagans dii medioxumi , and the demons that negotiated the affairs of men with the highest deities . now to prove that this kind of invocation of saints is down right idolatry , and by consequence that we are worshippers of false gods , he conjures up a spirit , which for its many names , and bad qualities , may well be termed legion : viz. the d. th . th . th . and th . conclusions of the first chapter . as also the th . th . th . th . th . th . th . th . th . and th . conclusions of the second chapter . but i hope my answer to these conclusions , in the first and second section of this discourse , will prove exorcism enough to lay this foul unclean spirit of calumny , and silence its impertinencies . in the rest of this fourth , and the two ensuing chapters , the doctor acts a new person : for laying aside his former conclusions and demonstrations , he trades now wholly in quotations , languishing about questions and strife of words . i shall not be so discourteous as to give him the apostles text after the protestant translation . amongst these quotations we are to meet with a great dearth of reason : three entire chapters having much ado to furnish out matter for one argument , and that a poor one too , god knows . his business is to lay down , and amuse his reader with a number of set formes of invocation of saints , which he pretends to be egregiously idolatrous . yet scarce ever mentioning the churches publique prayers , as her liturgys , litany , canonical hours , pontifical or ritual ; he plays at small game and serves in the gleanings of his own observation , picked up here and there , out of several books of devotion ; as the rosary of our lady , the mary psalter , and others : importing ( as he glosseth upon his text ) that the romanists in their prayers to saints ( especially to the blessed virgin ) ask of them such things as are only in the power of our great saviour and redeemer christ to grant : such as are , to protect us from all evil , and from all the frauds of the devil ; to grant us strength , courage , and patience ; spiritual illumination of the soul , and purgation thereof from the filth of sin ; to comfort and support us in the agony of death , and to conduct us hence into eternal life . lastly , he recounts some particular addresses to the blessed virgin mary , under the title of saluatrix , as begging salvation of her , with a domina salvum me fac : o blessed lady , save me . from whence he deduceth these consequences , as the bounteous overflowings of his pen. that we ask such thing ; of her , as are in the power of none but of jesus christ as he is god , to grant : that we make the eternal god-head as hypostatically united with the virgin , as with christ himself : that we make her a she christ , and the daughter of god , in as high a sense , as christ is his son. as to the fidelity of his quotations ( having not the books at hand to examine them ) i can neither accuse nor acquit him . but i shall allow him all the fair play in the world , by supposing , his allegations to be true , and freely taking them upon trust ; though his carriage hitherto gives us no great cause to suspect him guilty of too much candor in that kind . let us then single out one of the most harsh-sounding forms of invocation , that is to be found throughout all the three chapters : and if that , which is seemingly the unsoundest ( nay virtually includes all the rest ) and grates upon a christian eare with the greatest show of offence of all others , may yet admit of an orthodox sense , and this by clear warrant from holy scripture ; then i hope the rest , which are not so seemingly injustifiable as this , may in all reason be excused from that odious epithite of idolatrous , and i from the labour of all further apology in their behalf . and there is no form of invocation produced by the doctor of a higher or harsher strain than this , wherby salvation seems to be begged of our lady , saying , domina salvum me fac . blessed lady save me . but , why must this form needs be idolatrous ? must the flower which yields a wholesome juyce to the industrious bee , needs be bad , because the venomous spider turns it into poison ? hony soit qui mal y pense , is an useful piece of morality in things of ambiguous construction : for in this case , the evil is only to him , that evil thinks . and it is very possible that he who makes this form of invocation a piece of his litany ; domina salvum me fac . blessed lady save me . may think no more evil in it , nor be in any more danger of committing idolatry thereby , than saint paul was , when writing to the romans ( rom. . . ) he uttered these words : if by any means i may provoke to emulation , them which are my flesh , and might save some of them . or , when he speaks to the corinthians in this sort ( cor. . . ) i am made all things to all men , that i might save all : or , as you read , that by all means i might save some : which is all one , as to our present purpose . conceive now that some humble and well meaning suppliant had made his applications to the apostle in this very form of prayer ; holy apostle save me . what idolatry had it been to petition saint paul for a favour , which he professed himself both ready and able to grant ? for here the apostle cleerly supposeth in himself not only the will , but the power of saving souls . but in what sense ? not in the quality of a god , but as instrumental to their salvation by his prayers and preaching . so that ( holy apostle save me : ) had signified no more , then , holy apostle teach me the way of salvation : or , holy apostle pray for my salvation . say now the same in our case ; that as saint paul had upon earth , so the virgin hath in heaven the like , or a greater power of saving souls , by her patronage , prayers , and mediation : her dignity and place ( as mother of god ) affording her a neerer access to the throne of grace , and if the words of the abovesaid invocation be expounded in this manner ( as taking our measures from the apostles own words and meaning ) it will be one and the same kind of address , to say ; blessed lady save me : or , blessed lady pray for my salvation . and so all the forms of prayer assigned by the doctor taken in the sense of the apostle , will amount to no more than a meer ora pro nobis . now whereas the doctor was pleased to discharge his vollies of calumnies against us , upon the account of this , and the like formes of invocation ; let him turn his paper-pellets against the apostle , and discharge the overflowing of his gall upon him , as assuming to himself a soul-saving power in the texts abovesaid ; and he may please to tell him ; that hereby he takes upon him to do such a thing , as is in the power of none but jesus christ , as he is god , to do ; that he makes the eternal god head as hypostatically united to himself , as with christ ; and so makes himself a second christ , and the son of god , in as high a sense , as christ is his son. the inference is equally concluding , either in both cases or neither : and therefore it shall be at the doctor 's choice , either to clear us , or condemn the apostle , with whom we shall not fear to stand , or fall . the fifth section . which is , in answer to the three next chapters . in the beginning of the seventh chapter the doctor lays down the doctrin of the council of trent in these termes . that the images of christ , of the blessed virgin , and other saints are to be had and retained in churches , and that due honor and reverence is to be done to them . here the doctor gives us a learned antithesis , between the commandement of god , and the decree of this council . thus much , says he , as the council of trent has declared touching images is plain and open idolatry by the seventh conclusien of the first chapter , and expresly against the commandment of god , who forbids us to make a●● graven image to bow down to , or worship . but the council of trent says , yes , ye may make graven images of the saints , and set them up in their temples , and give them their due honour and worship ; nay , ye ought to do so ; and instances in the very act of bowing , or kneeling and prostrating our selves before them . the like rhetorical flourish he uses against the second council of nice in the next chapter . but how weak , frivolous , and pharisaical this antithesis is , i have sufficiently declared in my answer to the second , and seventh conclusions of the first chapter . he goes on , saying , that this definition of the council is so palpably against the commandment of god , that they are fain to leave the second commandement out of the decalogue , that the people may not discern how grosly they go against the express precepts of god , in their so frequent practises of idolatry . this charge from the pen of a divine looks something more than strange ; having been so often answered , and yet no notice taken of the answer , nor any reply made to it . that the commandements are ten , we have scripture for it , exod. . . deut. . . but that any part of the decalogue , which our catechismes leave out , is one of the ten , the scripture is not yet in beeing , by which it can be made out . the scripture indeed delivers the decalogue unto us in the twentieth chapter of exodus , ( which we own to a tittle ) but doth not divide and parcel it out so punctually unto us , but that orthodox divines ( even saint austine and saint hierome ) have been divided amongst themselves about the division of it . as for these words ; thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image , or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above , or that is in the earth beneath , or that is in the water under the earth : thou shalt not bow down thy self to them ; nor serve them . these words i say according to our school-men ( following herein the opinion of saint austine ) do make but one with the first of not worshipping other gods . hereupon divers of our catechismes , as being abbreviations of christian doctrin , fitted to the weaker memories of the vulgar , leave out the abovesaid words , together with divers others which follow in the fffth and sixth verse ; as also others belonging to the commandement of keeping the sabboth , in the ninth , tenth , and eleventh verse . now as our catechismes leaving out these last words , through meer condescendence to the capacities of the ignorant , are not , nor cannot justly be censured by protestants , as omitting any one commandement of the decalogue : so , before the doctor could rightly charge us with leaving out the second commandement , he ought at lest to have gone about to prove , that that which he calls the second , is really a distinct commandement from the first : and that the understanding is not the same , whether we divide the precepts of the first table into three , or into four commandements . this he absolutely omitting to do , his charge proves a meer calumny , and bearing false witness against his neighbour . and so whilst he pleads for his second , he very uncharitably breaks his ninth commandement . thus far the doctor having discharged his passion against the council's doctrin , his next exception is against the ground , or reason of the said doctrine : for wheras the council declares , that due honour and reverence is to be done to images , because the honour done to the image is referr'd to the prototype , or thing represented . against this , the doctor argues in this sort . this reference , says he , is either in vertue of that similitude the images have with those persons they represent : or else this reference ( without any regard to personal similitude ) is from the direction of the intention of the devotionist . then he supposing that neither of these ways are maintainable , he infers that by no means , can the honour done to the image be referr'd to the prototype , or thing represented . now that this reference is not in vertue of the similitude the images have with those persons they represent , he proves , first , because it is oftentimes uncertain , whether there be any such similitude of figure betwixt the image and the prototype . secondly , it may so happen , that the image may be more like something else , then it is to the prototype : for example , the image of a saint , may possibly be like some sinner , in which case this wicked person will intercept the honour due to the same . thirdly , no images can be like the saints , who are now separated souls . fourthly , what terrestrial image ( says the doctor ) can possibly represent him , that is truly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god-man , and is not the object of our adoration , but as he is this divine complexum , as well of the divinity , as of the humanity . to the argument i answer , that this reference is in vertue of that similitude , which the image hath with the prototype , as including the direction of the intention of the devotionist , ipso facto , that he is supposed to be a rational agent . and therefore the doctor 's disjunctive dilemma is very vain and defective . to the first of the four proofs , my answer is , that the honour done to the image may be referr'd to the prototype , though there be no personal similitude of figure betwixt the image and the person it represents . for besides the similitude of figure , there is another similitude , which the doctor , if he please may call a similitude of signification ; the image signifying the dignity , quality , or other perfections of the prototype : thus , though there be no personal similitude of figure , betwixt god and man , yet man was made after the image and likeness of god , gen. . . and he who honours man , as he is the image of god , honours god in his image . and therefore , if where there is no similitude of figure , surely much more where there is a specifical similitude of figure , the honour done to the image , may be referr'd to the prototype ; as it happens in the case of the images of christ , and his saints . to the second i answer , that the case the doctor puts is more than possible : for it did actually so fall out in the images of the angels or cherubims over the ark , which ( if we regard personal similitude of figure and feature ) were more like some material and terrestrial beeings , then those incorporeal intelligences ; and yet the honour done to them was referred to the prototypes . whence it appears that it is the similitude of signification , more than the similitude of figure and feature , which draws the honour after it . my answer to the third is , that our images pretend not to represent the saints , as devested of their bodies , but only according to their former state under the church militant , with some additional marks of a crown , or lawrel , or some such significative representatives of their triumphant state in glory . yet , under favour , why may not an image be like a separated soul , as well as like an angel or cherubim ? if any one reply , that according to the principles of the late revived platonick philosophy , angels have their bodies , and why may not those bodies have their images ? such a replyer may please to reflect , that ( besides that no one ever yet got a sight of those angelical bodies ) α the same principles allow unto souls separated and discharged from these gross terrestrial elements , the like aerial or aetherial vehicles with angels ; and therefore under this notion , either both , or neither of them , are capable of an imagery representation . to the fourth , i answer , that the doctor 's question , either comes to nothing , or to something worse than nothing , which is at lest indirect blasphemy : for , if a terrestrial image can possibly represent that person , who is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 god-man , then the doctor 's query falls to nothing . but if a terrestrial image cannot , then neither can a terrestrial eye represent that person , who is truly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 god-man ; and so the apostles , whilst living , did never see that person , who was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god-man ; which is no less than blasphemy , and so worse than nothing : implying that that person , called jesus christ , whom the apostles daily beheld with their eyes , was not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 god-man . having done with the council of trent , the doctor begins to pick quarrels with the second council of nice , pretending the doctrine of this council touching the worship of images to be grosly idolatrous ; and to this purpose he produceth divers objections , which it were a sin against logick to call proofs ; so little there is of manly reason in them . but because he gives us not the councils own words , but contents himself with instancing in one or two weak arguments of his own molding , which he would gladly father upon the council , we shall not wrong him so much , as to rob him of the child of his own brain , till he pleases to take the pains to prove it to be none of his own . nor doth he end here , but whereas the council relates some miracles in favour of the due honour given to the images of christ and his saints , these he most profoundly confutes by an unanswerable laughter : from laughing , he immediately falls a louring ; and the reason is , because this council declares that it is lawful to burn candles , incense , and perfumes in honour of the saints before their images , which he in an angry mood concludes to smell rankly of idolatry , even ( says he ) by the authority of grotius himself upon the decalogue . good doctor , deceive not your self . grotius was no papist , as you seem to imagine . and if you will not believe me , take it upon trust from your good friend doctor pierce against baxter . as for us , we have nothing to do with such amphibious heads , such self-divided humorists , halting on both sides , as grotius ; as if grotius his single word were of weight to counterballance the authority of a general council . after this he produceth the collections of photius in justellus , and adds that according to these ; one would think that they meant ( the fathers of this second council of nice ) the cultus latriae to the image of christ ; they using the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as if that worship , which was done to the image passed through to christ himself , which would not be suitable to him , if it were not divine worship . here is a discourse indeed , wherein all conformable sons of the church of england are concerned : for if an intelligent protestant be asked , whether , when they bow the knee at the eucharist , ( which to them is a bare figure , or symbolical presence ) the church of england intends this act of worship to terminate in the figure , or to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and pass on to christ ? if it be answered , that this worship is absolute , and rests in the bare figure , then doctor more 's twentieth conclusion of his second chapter concludes them absolute idolaters . but if they profess their worship in this case not to be absolute , in respect of the sacramental bread and wine , but relative , and to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and pass on to christ , then the doctor may please to address his abovesaid argument to them , in his own terms , and say ; one would think that they ( that is , all conformable protestants kneeling at the eucharist ) meant the cultus latriae to the figure , or symbolical presence , they using the word ( or at lest the sense of ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as if that worship which is done to the figure or symbolical presence passed through to christ himself , which could not be suitable to him , unless it were divine worship . let him , i say , turn this argument against his own brethren ; and i leave it to him and them to debate the point . his next pretence is to prove positively by the testimony of photius , that this council gives the worship of latria , to the image of christ ; and such a kind of worship to the images of the virgin mary , and the rest of the saints , as that while we adhere to their images or statues , we are declared to be made fit for , and to be vouchsafed a tactual union with god himself . this done , he insultingly tapers up , and tours himself over us , with a double interrogatory . can any thing , says he , more inflame the souls of men with that mystical lust after idols , then the doctrine of this nicene synod ? what philtrum more effectual to raise up that idolomania , that being mad and love-sick after images and idols , then this ? thus the high-flown doctor walks in wonders above himself . but why all this lavish of a passionate rhetorique ? the doctor had plaid his master-prize if he had given us all this rable in the councils own words . but instead of that , he feeds upon reversions at second hand , takes his quotations from photius ( a person of as much credit , as himself ) and makes photius the paraphrast and interpreter of the councils meaning . but what if the council say no such thing ? nay , what if the council deliver the quite contrary doctrine ? how blank then will the doctor 's charge look , upon the discovery of such disingenuity ? and truly had the doctor but taken so much as a cursory survey of catholique authors on this subject , he might have found them frequently and truly quoting this very council , act . . to prove that the image of christ is not to be honoured with the worship of latria : but that such honour and reverence is due to images in general , as is to the books of the gospel , and the holy utensils of the altar . now therefore whereas the doctor was pleased to ask ; what philtrum more effectual to raise up that idolomania , that being mad and love-sick after images , then this ? we shall give him leave to take to himself this idolomania and love-sick humor after the images of his own fond conceptions , and the idol of his own fancy : for therein , and in nothing else consists the main of his charge against us . next follows the ninth chapter , the title whereof looks big , and speaks thus . the meaning of the doctrine of the council of trent , touching the worshipping of images more determinately illustrated , from the general practise of the roman church , and suffrage of their popes , whereby it is deprehended to be stil more coursely and paganically idolatrous . it cannot be denied , but here is a fair flourish of words . but the question is ; quid dignum tanto tulit hic promissor hiatii ? mark the words ; ( from the general practise of the roman church . ) and yet instead of the said general practise of the roman church , he begins with the particular and generally rejected speculation of saint thomas and saint bonaventure , both of them declaring ( as the doctor words it ) that the image of christ is to be worshipped with the worship of latria . good doctor , there is a great difference between is , and may be . the one implies an obligation , the other a bare permission : and you produce no proof of any such obligation asserted by these holy doctors ; each of which was too much a divine to be ignorant what idolatry is , and too much a christian to commit it . now indeed that the image of christ may be worshipped with the worship of latria ( though expresly contrary to the doctrine of the second council of nice ) is the commonly supposed opinion of saint thomas , and saint bonaventure . who , as they never mention , so in all likelihood they never saw the said council , nor the eighth general synod , both of which lay concealed from the world a long time , and we owe the publishing of them , only to the later and more inquisitive discoveries of the precedent age. it is hard to say what was the meaning of these two doctors : for when they come to unfold their assertion , they wind about , and enter into such nice distinctions , as requires a long acquaintance with , and deep insight into the schools , only to understand , much more to foil , and confute them . wherein dr. more might very much oblige the world , if he pleased to engage upon such a task , as a noble essay of his speculative faculty . after saint thomas , and saint bonaventure , comes in azorius the jesuit , he also affirming ( as the doctor pretends ) that it is the constant opinion of the theologers , ( so the doctor calls them ) that the image is to be honoured and worshipped with the same honour and worship , that he is , whose image it is . which ( says the doctor ) is not unlike that of the council of nice , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the foregoing citation . here is a proofless accusation , which the learned call a calumny , whereby azorius is made the author of a great untruth , without any the least allegation to evidence the charge . as to the tenet , which the doctor speaks of , it is far from being the constant opinion of our theologers ; whereas 't is now generally rejected by them , unless limited by that restriction and qualifying distinction of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which the doctor either forgot , or purposely omitted , in his long translation out of photius , in the last chapter , though it was the only material word in the whole citation : for divers indeed ( taking this restriction along with them ) teach that the image may be honoured and worshipped with the same honour and worship with the prototype ; not univocally but analogically , as the schools speak ; which comes to a meer verbal contest , and in reality imports a much inferiour kind of honour done to the image , than what is due to him in his own person , whose image it is . i shall briefly open the distiction . as a man and a lion differ specifically : so a painted man , and a painted lion differ no less . whence it is , that the painted man is reduced analogically to the species of man , and not to that of a lion : no more than the painted lion , to the species of man , so that a man , and a painted man are ( though not univocally ) yet analogically the same . now , says our doctors , look what proportion the painted man holds with the man himself ; the like comparison is to be made between the honour exhibited to the painted man , and the man himself , or to the picture , and the prototype . and therefore as the man , and the painted man , are analogically the same : so the honour done to the painted man , and the man himself , or to the picture and the prototype , are ( not univocally but ) analogically the same . thus do gabriel , and some others interpret saint thomas , and saint bonaventure . if the doctor understand the distinction , and like it not , he hath his christian liberty to impugne it . if he understand it not , he may do well to lay down the cudgels , and leave these great divines to themselves and their speculations , and not to obtrude their school-niceties upon us , as part of our churches faith , or practise ; whereas he himself acknowledgeth in the beginning of this chapter , that the council of trent never mentions any such worship of latria due to the image of christ . and two general councils , the seventh and eighth , declare definitively for the contrary to what the doctor pretends : for , speaking of the veneration which is to be given to images , they compare it only with that reverence which is due to the books of the gospel , and the utensils of the altar . which are both of them to be honoured with due veneration ; the one , as signifying holy things ; the other , as consecrated to holy uses ; both which considerations joyntly concur in the images of christ and his saints . secondly , the doctor pretends , that the consecration and worship of images makes them perfectly as the idol-gods of the heathen , as octavius jearingly speaks of the heathen-gods , in minucius felix : ecce funditur , fabricatur , scalpitur , nondum est deus . — ecce ornatur , consecratur , oratur , tunc postremo deus est . behold it is clothed , or adorned , it is consecrated and prayed unto , then at length it becomes a god . and if this will do it , the church of rome's images will prove as good idol gods , as any of them all . here is a calumny indeed of the first magnitude , most uncharitably implying that the roman church prays to images , as the heathens did to their idol-gods . the best excuse for so foul a charge is the palpable grossness of it , whereby it may possibly be hoped , that no person , that is but one remove from a fool , can either believe the doctor , or think that he believes himself . thirdly , he inveighs against two particular forms of consecrating pictures , which he does not profess to have seen himself . but , says he , chemnitius recites them out of the pontifical he had read . here is a third proofless accusation , called a calumny : for chemnitius his word is no proof with us , who is a known sinon , a person of that tried integrity , as that he who never trusts him , shall be sure never to be deceived by him . fourthly , he brings a form of consecration of images , out of the roman rituall : grant , o god , that whosoever before this image shall diligently and humbly upon his knees worship , and honour thy only begotten son , or the blessed virgin , or this glorious apostle or martyr , confessor , or virgin , &c. that he may obtain , by his , or her merits and intercession , grace in this present life , and eternal glory hereafter . upon this prayer , the doctor descants after this manner . so that , says he , the virgin and other saints are fellow-distributers of grace and glory with christ himself to their supplicants before their images ; and that upon their own merits ; and for the service done to them in kneeling and pouring out their prayers before their statues or symbolical presence . thus far is the doctor 's charge who might have done well to have lent us his opticks , or else to have set down in capital letters that sentence , word , or single syllable in the aforesaid prayer ( which yet differs from that in the roman rituall ) whereby he pretends to infer his triple consequence . for , there is no such expression in the whole prayer , as grant o virgin ; or grant o saint : but , grant o god. how then do we here make the virgin and other saints fellow-distributers of grace and glory with christ himself ? much less do we make them fellow-distributers of grace and glory with christ , upon their own merits , who have no merits of their own , but such as flow from , and have their absolute dependance of the merits of christ . and lest of all are they here made fellow-distributers of grace , for the service done to them in kneeling and praying before their statues ; there being no such causall as that ( for ) specified at all in the prayer . fifthly , his weak eye-sight cannot endure the light of wax-candles , no more than his head the smoke of incense burning before the images of saints ; both which he pretends to be idolatrous . this he confidently affirms , but never offers to prove , and thereby proves himself guilty of a fifth calumny . as for temples and altars , i have already told him we erect temples and altars to god alone , reserving only a secondary honour or remembrance for the saints . i shall not foul my paper with taking notice of such unseemly brothel-language , as fills up his next page . it is enough to say , it is more than becomes a modest doctor . sixthly , he touches at some more gross extravagancies , which , says he , though they have connived at , yet they would be loth to own upon publick authority : such as the making images to sweat , their eyes to move , the making them to smile , to loure , look sad , to feel heavy or light , and the like . the doctor 's book would give me the lie , if i should term this any thing less than a calumny , for he brings not so much as any one single instance to back his accusation , charging our church with connivance at such unchristian impostures which have ever been the object of her sharpest censures , and most exemplar severities when-ever detected . lastly , he quotes a rhyme to the face of christ , called the veronica . but because this was no part of any ecclesiastical office , for which the church might be justly thought responsible , he teares a piece of a hymn out of the breviary , which he presents under the title of a blind devotion . o crux , ave spes unica , hoc passionis tempore ; auge piis justitiam , reisque dona veniam . then he runs division upon this text , in this sort . this , says he , must sound very wildly and extravagantly to any sensible ear. and yet the invoking any saint before his image , for aid and succour ( the image bearing the name and representation of the saint ) with eyes and hands lift up to it , is as arrant talking with a sensless stock , or a stone , as this , and as gross a piece of idolatry . if you had but added one clause more mr. doctor , which is every whit as well grounded as your own , you had done your deed , and changed your calumny against us into blasphemy against god : for , as you say , the invoking any saint before his image for aid and succour , ( the image bearing the name and representation of the saint ) with eyes and hands lift up to it , is as arrant talking with a sensless stock or stone , as this : so might you have added with no less colour of truth ; that invoking almighty god before the ark of the covenant , ( the ark being but a figure or symbolical presence , and of wood , and had in it the rod of aaron , and the tables of the covenant ) with eyes and hands lift up to it , was as arrant talking with a sensless stock or stone , as this which you object against the worship of images . as for the churches hymn , o crux ave spes unica ; i recommend to the doctor this following text of the apostle , cor. . . for the preaching of the cross is to them that perish , foolishness , but unto us which are saved , it is the power of god. where the cross is figuratively taken for the person crucified , which is christ the power of god , expresly so called , v. . of the same chapter . wherefore as those , who preach the cross , may by an easy trope be said to preach christ crucified : so , allow but charity for interpreter , and those who speak to the cross , may without scruple be supposed to speak figuratively to christ crucified . so that the same interpretation which clears the apostle , will absolve the church ; and her apostrophe to christ crucified ( under the title of the cross ) shall pass for canonical , as long as this , and such like texts , shall continue in being , to pattern and patronize the expression . and therefore i end with this parallel of the apostle's text ; that as the preaching of the cross , ( so an address to the cross ) is to them that perish , foolishness ; but to us it is the power of god , and wisdome of god. the last section . concluding with an answer to the doctor 's last chapter . the doctor concludes his treatise with a hearty and vehement exhortation to all men , that have any serious regard to their salvation , to beware how they be drawn into the communion of the church of rome . so that this chapter may be fitly entitled , doctor taylour revived ; or a second dissuasive from popery . but after a different method : for doctor taylour is a person of a more refined and plausible insinuation : a smooth tongue and oyly expression , cloaking his many and great disingenuities , with fair glozing words , and an affectate strain of scripture-phrase , pretending to the power of godliness . but dr. more is a polemical man of a quite different temper . his fiery zeal wears no mask : his disputing is open railing ; and his arguments blustring words ; not always too much concerned whether true or false . witness the contents of this chapter ; whereof i shall give my reader a brief extract , drawn up in form of a homily , yet in the doctor 's own words , and charitable dialect . thus then begins the dissuasive . dearly beloved ; it is demonstrated as clear as noon-light in this present discourse , that the church of rome are idolaters . and therefore come out of her my people , that ye be not partakers of her sins , and receive not of her plagues . be not deceived , says the apostle , cor. . . neither fornicators , nor idolaters shall inherit the kingdom of god. and those of the church of rome are bound to continue idolaters , as long as they live , or else to renounce their church ; and therefore they are bound to be damned , by adhearing to the roman church , unless they could live in it for ever . but because some protestants have declared for the possibility of salvation in the romish church , this piece of charity , in some of our party , they turn to the fencing off all imputation of idolatry from themselves , arguing thus : that no idolaters can be saved : but those in the romish church may be saved , according to those protestants opinion● ; therefore those in the romish church are no idolaters . but most assuredly in that some of our church do say they may be saved , upon a sincere and hearty implicit repentance of all their sins , ( wherein they include the idolatries and all other miscarriages , which they knew not themselves guilty of , by reason of the blind misinstructions of their church ) no more is given them by this , then thus ; viz. that they are saved by disowning of , and dismembring themselves from the roman church , as much as it is in their power so to do , and by bitterly repenting them that they were ever of that church , as such ; and by being so minded , that if they did know what a corrupt church it is , they would forthwith separate from it . — in which position , if there were any truth , it will reach the honest-minded pagans as well . i conclude therefore with the spirit of truth in the divine oracles , declaring the see of rome the seat * of satan , & their church a his synagogue ; the pope and his clergy b to be balaam the son of bozor , who loved the wages of unrighteousness , and who was the murtherer of christ's faithful martyr antipas ; to be c that woman jezabel , who calls her self a prophetess , but was indeed a sorceress , and a murtherer of the true prophets of the lord. to be also that false prophet d that is to be taken alive , and cast into the lake of fire and brimstone . to be that great city , that spiritually is call'd sodom and aegypt , e where our lord was crucified . to be the beast that has the horns of a lamb f but the voice of a dragon , decreeing idolatries and cruel persecutions against god's people . to be that babylon the great g the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth . this is mellifluous dr. more 's sweet harangue , with a long-winded , &c. too tedious to be inserted here . now i would gladly know what there is in all this discourse , which an ingenuous son of the church of england will not be heartily ashamed of , and even blush for the doctor 's sake . here is , i confess , stout railing , disingenuity more than is necessary for a doctor , and an ill-grounded and schismatical discourse , even admitting a protestant doctor for umpire in the case . as for our doctor 's dexterity in the learned science of railing , i envy it not ; nor hath the church of england any great reason to glory in it : for she may remember but too well , that in the black days of the late apostacy , when loyalty lay a gasping , and religious rebellion first took possession of the pulpit , she felt the smart of this language her self , whilst he was looked upon as the best man , and the greatest servant of the lord , who knew how to curse meroz the loudest ; and there are not wanting in this nation , those who can find a rome in england , to make meroz of it when they please . but his great disingenuity , in averring so peremptorily that no protestants allow us a possibility of salvation , but only in case of such a repentance , as implies an absolute renunciation of our religion , and its idolatrous doctrines and practises , by disowning of , and dismembring our selves from the roman church ; this i say , will scarce appear pardonable in the eyes of his fellow-doctors : for , first , arch-bishop lawd in his fam'd relation , § . expresly grants us this possibility of salvation ; and to clear himself , and shew that he is not alone , he cites bishop abbot , hall , hooker , field , and others , as concurring with him in the same opinion ; and this without any such renunciation of our religion , as the doctor pretends ; or disowning and dismembring our selves from the roman church . i cannot pass by mr. hooker's remarkable expression upon this subject , in his discourse of justification , § . for my part , says he , i dare not deny the possibility of their salvation , who have been the chiefest instruments of ours . secondly , besides the arch-bishop , and the above mentioned doctors , dr. potter . dr. hammond , and others glory much of the charitable principles of the church of england , and object want of charity to us , for maintaining , that protestancy unrepented destroys salvation . now if the objectors should retaliate , and say that popery unrepented destroys salvation , i would willingly be instructed by dr. more wherein lies the charity ▪ and moderation they boast of . thirdly , nothing is more current amongst them , when they are pressed with the crime of schism , then to return the charge upon us , from other grounds : saying , that as the donatists and luciferians were , so we are schismatiques , in cutting off from the body of christ , and the hope of salvation , other churches from which we are divided in communion . whence is evidently inferred , that those who make this objection , cannot cut us off from the hope of salvation , unless they mean to evacuate the force of their own proof , and fall into the pit , which they had digged for their neighbours . lastly , whereas dr. more makes the pretended idolatries of the church of rome the ground of his dissuasive from popery : that this method of arguing is absolutely schismatical ( even allowing the case to be ballanced in dr. thorndike's just weights , and ruled according to his measures ) dr. more may find abundant satisfaction in the first chapter of the abovesaid treatise . but , in regard i have mentioned so eminent a person , and member of the church of england , as dr. thorndike , i shall make bold to turn him into the l●sts , against dr. more . the antithesis of their doctrines is very remarkable ; for they run diametrically opposite one to another . dr. more affirms the worship of the host in the papacy to be idolatry . dr. thorndike ( ch . . ) denies the worship of the host in the papacy to be idolatry . dr. more holds that the placing and reverencing images i● churches , is idolatry . dr. thorndike ( ch . . ) holds that the placing and reverencing images in churches , is not idolatry . dr. more will have invocation of saints to be inexcusable idolatry . dr. thorndike ( ch . . ) excuses invocation of saints from idolatry . lastly , dr. more exhorts all men to separate from the church of rome , as idolaters . but dr. thorndike ( chap. . ) avows to all the world , that those who separate from the church of rome , as idolaters , are thereby schismatiques before god. when the two doctors are fully agreed upon these points , dr. more shall hear more from me , if he desires it . in the mean time ▪ i shall entre●t him to respit my pen for some other imployment . finis . errata . page . line . for where read there . pag. . l. ult . for tare r. bare . p. . l. . f genu . r. gent. p. . l. . f. scarce , r. scarce . p. . l. . f. speaks , r. speakers . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e isa . . psal . . habac. . acts . . venerabar , inquit , ô caecitas , nuper simulacra-in incudibus deos , & ex malleis fabricatos . — tanquam inesset vis praesens adulabar , & beneficia poscebam — deos esse credebam ligna , lapides ossa , &c. arnob. li. . contrae genv. α see lactantius l. . c. , and . s. austine , l. . c. . de civit. dei. β euseb l. . praepar . c . s. austine in psal . . and lib. . de civit . dei , c. and lib. . de civit. dei , c. . γ euseb . lib. . c. . praepar . and s. austine ubi supra . euseb . l. . praepar . c. exod. . . chron. c. . v. . ibid. v. . psal . . . chron. . . costerus in enchirid. c. de sanct. mo . sacram to . n. protestants translate it , doting about questions . α see the ingenuous author of lux orientalis , or the pre-existence of souls , ( a happy pen , and worthy of a better subject ) and a great honourer of dr. more . council . m. actio . . conc. m. actio . ult . can . . * apoc. . . a apoc. . . b apoc. . , . c apoc. . . d apoc. . . e apoc. . f apoc. . . g apoc. . mr. thorndike in his just weights , and measures . several conferences between a romish priest, a fanatick chaplain, and a divine of the church of england concerning the idolatry of the church of rome, being a full answer to the late dialogues of t.g. stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) several conferences between a romish priest, a fanatick chaplain, and a divine of the church of england concerning the idolatry of the church of rome, being a full answer to the late dialogues of t.g. stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by m.w. for h. mortlock ..., london : . attributed to edward stillingfleet. cf. bm. t.g. is thomas godden. cf. dnb. reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in 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over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng godden, thomas, - . catholic church -- controversial literature. idols and images -- worship -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion several conferences between a romish priest , a fanatick chaplain , and a divine of the church of england , concerning the idolatry of the church of rome : being a full answer to the late dialogues of t. g. london , printed by m. w. for h. mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster hall. . imprimatur , guil. jane r. p. d. hen. episc. lond. à sac . domest . may . . the preface . the following discourses contain a full and distinct answer to the late dialogues of t.g. wherein the reader may perceive what an easie victory , truth , when it stands its ground , will obtain over wit and subtilty . when the man who fell in the olympick games , endeavoured by his eloquence to perswade the spectators he was never down , it is possible he might meet with some weak and others partial enough to believe him ; but the judges could not but smile at their folly who did not discern the difference between the firmness of the ones standing and the others artificial rising ; the one might shew more art and dexterity , but the other had more strength or some other advantage . i shall leave the reader to judge in these combats who maintains his ground best , and who seeks chiefly to avoid the dis-reputation of losing it . he that keeps close to his adversary , declines no difficulty , uses no reproachful language , or disingenuous dealing , hath certainly greater assurance of the goodness of his cause and more hopes to prevail ; than he that studies for shifts and evasions , avoids the strongest arguments , and flyes out into impertinent cavils and personal reflections ; which are great signs that the man is conscious of the badness of his cause , and despairs of success by any other means . and the author of these discourses desires that his adversary and himself may stand or fall according to these measures . as to the manner of writing here used , viz. by way of dialogue , it is that which his adversary led him to ; and possibly , where the decency of it is well observed , it may make controversie go down more pleasantly than otherwise it would . for there appears more life and vigour in a discourse carried on by several persons of different humours and opinions , than in one continued deduction of reason . and the author declares he intended no reflection on any sober party of men among us in the representation made of the army-chaplain , who bears the third part in the conferences ; but only to shew the advantage the popish party takes from the weak and peevish exceptions which some men have made against the church of england ; and how they insinuate themselves into them on the account of their prejudices against it , and have made use of their indiscreet zeal to compass their own ends . which is so far from being a romance or fiction , that besides the footsteps which may be yet traced of these transactions , by the means and instruments which were imploy'd about them ; we find that one of the most busie ●actors of the roman church , wh●n he most confidently denyed the other parts of the late horrid design , did not stick to avow and own this , that they did hope to prevail at last by joyning their strength with the obstinate dissenters in procuring a general toleration ; which was all the visible design they were carrying on , when these discourses were written . since which , the face of things hath been so much alter'd among us , and the times appear'd so busie and dangerous , that it was thought more adviseable to respite the publishing of these controversial discourses till mens minds were a little calmed ; lest the author of them should seem guilty of the impertinent diligence of archimedes , viz. of drawing lines in the dust , when the enemy was ready to destroy us . had the author had any occasion to have run away from the argument under debate between him and his adversary , he did not want a fair opportunity in the present state of things , to have put him in mind of something very different from an irenicum . but he desired me to acquaint the reader that he does so perfectly abhor this impertinent and disingenuous way of writing , especially about matters of religion , that he could neither be provok'd nor tempted to it , no not by so great and fresh an example as he had all along before his eyes . may that wise and gracious god who hath hitherto defeated the cruel and malicious designs of our churches enemies , still preserve it under the shadow of his wings , and continue it a praise in the earth . the contents . first conference , concerning the sense of the church of england , about the idolatry of the church of rome . the introduction to it page an account of t. g.'s late dialogues p. of the genuine sons of the church of england according to t. g. p. . of his intention about the sense of the church of england in this matter p. of the nature of the testimonies produced by dr. st. p. the argument from the homilies defended p. this charge of idolatry proved to be no heat in the beginning of the reformation . p. the argument from the rubrick for kneeling at the communion at large considered . p. no colour for idolatry in kneeling at the eucharist . p. t. g.'s sense of the rubrick examined . p. of material and formal idolatry . p. how far the real presence is held by our church . p. bertram's book not the same with that of joh. scotus . p. of the stercoranists . p. of impanation . p. of a corporeal presence . p. of b. abbots being a puritan . p. how far the church of rome is chargeable with idolatry . p. mr. thorndike vindicated from suspicion of popery by a m s. of his own writing here published . p. arch-bishop whitgifts testimony cleared . p. of the distinction between parts and circumstances of worship . p. how far the charge of idolatry is agreeable to the articles of our church . p. second conference , about the consequences of the charge of idolatry . p. the introduction , concerning the restauration of learning , being the true occasion of the reformation . p. of the validity of ordination on supposition of the charge of idolatry . p. authority goes along with the power of orders by the principles of the roman church . p. of the indelible character . p. the distinction between the power of order and jurisdiction examined . p. of excommunication ipso facto on the charge of idolatry . p. dr. st. proved to have no design to undermine the church of england . p. the design of his irenicum cleared . p. how far the being of a church and the possibility of salvation consistent with the charge of idolatry . p. a large testimony of b. sanderson's to that purpose . p. no necessity of assigning a distinct church in all ages . p. no obligation to communion with the roman church . p. no parity of reason in separating from the church of england , and in her separation from rome . p. a passage in the irenicum cleared . p. how far idolatry consistent with owning the fundamental articles of faith. p. t. g.'s shuffling about the sense of the second commandment . p. third conference , about the nature of idolatry . p. an abstract of the design of dr. st.'s general discourse of the nature of idolatry . p. of the manner of t. g.'s answering it . p. the postulata granted by him . p. many material omissions in t. g.'s answer . p. of the patronus bonae fidei and the service he doth the papists . p. the disparity between bowing towards the altar and the worship of images at large cleared . p. of the difference between reverence to sacred places and worship of images . p. the arguments of the patronus bonae fidei , against bowing towards the altar , answered . p. the supposition of transubstantiation doth not make it more reasonable . p. of idolatry in the nature of the thing . p. of the sinfulness of idolatry antecedently to a positive law. p. t. g.'s principles justifie the worship of god in any creature . p. relative worship condemned by the primitive church . p. as great danger in the worship of images as of gods creatures . p. t. g.'s trifling about meletetiques and mystical theology . p. the incongruity of worshipping christ by a crucifix . p. of the nature and kinds of certainty . p. why the certainty of religion called moral . p. several sorts of certainty of the christian faith. p. of the impossibility of falshood in it . p. dr. st.'s charge of idolatry reaches to definitions of councils and practises generally allowed . p. the parallel about bowing towards the altar , farther answered . p. his fidelity in citations justified against t. g.'s cavils . p. the citation of lugo defended . p. the parallel between reverence to sacred places and things , and the worship of images fully disproved . p. the citation of greg. nyssen entred upon . p. the parallel between the arian and romish idolatry defended . p. t. g.'s exceptions against it answered . p. greg. nyssen's testimony cleared . p. the difference of the practice of invocation of saints in the church of rome , from the addresses in the fourth century shewed in several particulars . p. t. g.'s answer to the council of laodicea examined . p. the testimony of arnobius rightly cited by dr. st. p. of relative latria being given to images . p. of inferiour worship as distinct from latria , and neither of them shewed to clear the church of rome from idolatry . p. fourth conference , about the parallel between the heathen and romish idolatry . p. t. g.'s notion of heathen idolatry . p. how far jupiter's being the supreme god relates to the main controversie . p. in what sense jupiter might be called an unknown god. p. s. augustin makes the true god to be truly worshipped by the athenians . p. t. g.'s exceptions answered . p. the distinction between jupiter of greet , and the supreme jupiter . p. the place of rom. . , . not answered by t. g. p. aquinas his testimony cleared . p. the state of the controversie about the fathers . p. justin martyr no friend to t. g.'s hypothesis . p. athenagoras at large cleared . p. a threefold jupiter among the fathers . p. theophilus antiochenus not to t. g.'s purpose . p. tertullian vindicated . p. clemens alexandrinus . p. minucius felix . p. other testimonies rejected as impertinent . p. t. g.'s accounts of heathen idolatry examined . p. first , in taking their images for gods , at large disproved . p. ( . ) in worshipping many false gods , that likewise disproved . p. t. g.'s arguments answered . p. the absurd consequences of this notion of heathen idolatry . p. t. g.'s pittiful evasions as to the modern idolaters . p. ( . ) in worshipping the creatures instead of god ; the nature of that idolatry enquired into . p. worshipping the creatures with respect to god as soul of the world , justifiable on the the same grounds with adoration of the host. p. why it is idolatry to give all external worship to the creatures . p. a twofold hypothesis of heathen idolatry . p. the parallel as to the church of rome defended . p. of appropriate acts of divine worship . p. what errour of judgement the act of idolatry implyes . p. lugo's testimony cleared . p. whether the church hath power to discriminate acts of worship ? p. how far circumstances discriminate acts of civil and religious worship ? p. whether the church of rome doth appropriate any act of external adoration to god. p. that the very sacrifice of the mass is offered in honour of gods creatures , and consequently is not appropriated to the honour of god. p. dr. st. doth not differ from the divines of the church of england about the sacrifice of the mass. p. how far the sacrifice of the mass may be said to be the act of the people . p. errata . page . line . dele not . p. . l. . dele not . p. . l. . r. savouring . p. . l. . r. declares . p. . l. . r. as so sacred . p. . l. . for no , r. do . p. . l. . for not so , r. so . p. . l. . for fallo , r. fullo . p. . l. . for idolatry , r. idolaters . p. . l. . for i not , r. i do not . p. . l. , . for matters , r. matter . first conference , concerning the sense of the church of england , about the idolatry of the church of rome . rom. p. you are well met at this auction of books . i have been present at many of them beyond sea : but i never was at one in england before . how go the prices of books here ? fan. ch. very dear methinks , by the books i have bought ; but i find they are so catched up by our brethren , that if we will have them , we must pay dear for them . r. p. may i know what they are sir ? f. c. only some few choice pieces which i have picked out of this great catalogue ; such as , nepthali or the groanings of the church of scotland ; cooks monarchy no creature of gods making ; but the things i most value are the pamphlets , such as sermons before the long parliament in several volumes . and a rare collection of authors about liberty of conscience . r. p. are there so many books to be had about liberty of conscience ? f. c. yes ; a great many have written for and against it . r. p. who are they who have written for it ? f. c. to tell you the truth , some of the same who wrote against it heretofore ; but they are now more enlightned ; as those who wrote against separation when time was , are now the greatest advocates for it . for , there are some providential truths , which vary according to circumstances . do not we see the papists , who were thought the greatest enemies to toleration in the world , now plead most vehemently for it ? and are even angry with us for not acting sufficiently in this cause against the church of england . but because i take you for a friend by your enquiring after these books , i must tell you , it is yet a disputable point among us , how far we may joyn with antichrist , to promote the interest of christ ; and some insist on that place to prove the unlawfulness of it , be ye not unequally yoked ; others again prove it lawful , because it is said , yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world — or with idolaters : whence they observe , that they may joyn with them in some things , or for some ends ; but not altogether , i. e. they must not joyn with them in their idolatries , but they may against the church of england . r. p. this is too publick a place to talk of these matters in : but may we not withdraw into the next room ; for i have a great mind to set you right in this main point of present concernment . and if the papists should be found not to be idolaters , a great part of your difficulty is gone . do you think , it is not fit for you to be better informed in this matter , when a thing of so great consequence depends upon it , as your deliverance from the persecution of the church of england ? which you know , we have all sighed and groaned for , a long time . it is in vain for any of you to expect favour from thence , as long as she is able to stand . for if the bishops were never so much inclined to it , how could they possibly give ease to you without destroying themselves ? and since the dissenting parties are so different among themselves in their light and attainments , it is impossible to please any one party , without displeasing all the rest . comprehension is a meer snare and temptation to the brethren , being a design to prefer some , and to leave the rest in the lurch . let us all joyn our strengths together , to pull down this church of england , and then , though there be a king in israel , every one may do what seemeth good in his own eyes . f. c. i doubt you are not well seen in scripture ; for the text is , in those dayes there was no king in israel , and every one did what seemed good in his own eyes : whence you may observe a special hint by the by , that toleration agrees best with a common-wealth . but this to your self : and you might justly wonder at this freedom with you ; but that i remember you many years ago , when you and i preached up the fifth monarchy together in the army . those were glorious dayes ! ah the liberty we then enjoyed ! did we then think , the good old cause would ever have ended thus ? well! it is good to be silent in bad times . but methinks you and i however may retire and talk over old stories , and refresh our memories with former out-goings together . for here is little at present for us to do . r. p. whereabouts are they now in the catalogue ? f. c. among the fathers ; those old-testament divines . what lights have we seen since their dayes ! we need not trouble our selves about them . but i observe the church of england men buy them up at any rate . what prices do they give for a justin martyr , or epiphanius or philo , who they say was a meer jew ? how must they starve their people with the divinity of these men ? how much of the good divinity of the late times might they have for the money ? we cannot but pity their blindness . but i see we cannot be here so private as we wished ; for yonder sits a divine of the church of england , who i suppose , is the person , who bought so many fathers at the last auction , as though he had a mind to write against the papists . r. p. sit you by a while ; and we will talk of our matters another time . i have been much abroad since you and i were first acquainted , and have lately brought over a new book from paris . you shall see how i will handle him ; and if you put in upon occasion , you shall find by this experiment , what success our united forces would have against the church of england . f. c. do you begin ; and you shall see how i will second you , when occasion offers it self . r. p. sir , i perceive the divines of the church of england , do buy up the fathers very much at auctions . i wonder that any who read the fathers can be for the church of england . pr. div. and i do more wonder at you for saying so . for therefore we are for the church of england , because we read both scripture and fathers . r. p. to what purpose is all this charge and pains , if there be an infallible church ? p. d. therefore to good purpose ; because there is no one church infallible . r. p. is there not a catholick church ? p. d. do you think i have forgotten my creed ? r. p. which is that catholick church ? p. d. which of all the parts is the whole ? is that your wise question ? do not you know the christian church hath been broken into different communions ever since the four general councils , and continues so to this day ? what do you mean by the catholick church ? r. p. i mean the church of rome . p. d. then you ask me , which is the church of rome ? but what need you ask that , since you know it already ? r. p. but the roman church is the catholick church . p. d. you may as well say , london is england , or england the world. and why may not we call england the world , because the rest of the world is divided from it ; as you the roman church the catholick church ; because the other churches are separated in communion from it ? r. p. i mean the roman church is the head and fountain of catholick doctrine ; and other churches are pure and sound as they do agree with it . p. d. your proposition is not so self-evident , that the bare knowing your meaning , must make me assent . i pray first prove what you say , before i yield . r.p. was not the church of rome once a sound and catholick church ? p. d. what then ? so was the church of jerusalem , of antioch , and alexandria ; and so were the seven churches of asia . were all these heads and fountains too ? r. p. but s. paul speaks of the church of rome . p. d. he doth so ; but not much to her comfort ; for he supposes she may be broken off through unbelief , as well as any other church ? r. p. doth not s. paul say , that the roman faith was spoken of throughout the world ? p. d. what then i beseech you ? doth it follow that faith must alwayes continue the same any more than that the church of philadelphia must at this day be , what it was when s. john wrote those great commendations of it ? these are such slender proofs that you had as good come to downright begging the cause , as pretend to maintain it after such a manner . the faith of rome was not more spoken of in the apostles dayes , than its errours and corruptions have been since . r. p. these are general words ; name me one of those errours and corruptions . p. d. for this time , i will name the publick and allowed worship of your church , which after all your shifts and evasions i cannot excuse from idolatry . r. p. how is that ? idolatry ? god forbid . i did not expect this charge from a divine of the church of england . i was prepared to receive it , from my old fanatick acquaintance here : he would have thundered me with the texts of antichrist , and the whore of babylon , and have quoted half the book of the revelations against me , before this time , if we had not espyed you in the room . but i perceive though your artillery may be different , your charge is the same . i pray tell me , how long is it since you of the church of england have maintained this charge ? for , i have been often told , that only one late defender of your church , hath advanced two new charges against the church of rome , viz. fanaticism and idolatry , and that the true sons of the church of england disown them both ▪ p. d. whoever told you so hath deceived you ; but it is not the only thing they have deceived you in . i never yet saw so much as a tolerable answer to the charge of fanaticism . and for that of idolatry , the authour you mean , hath proved beyond contradiction , that it hath been managed against the church of rome , by the greatest and most learned defenders of the church of england , and the most genuine sons of it , ever since the reformation . r.p. but have not you seen , what t. g. hath said to all that , and how he hath shewed that his witnesses were incompetent ? p. d. i have both seen and considered all that t. g. hath said , and compared it with dr. stillingfleets reply in the general preface to his answers . and i must declare to you , that if the sense of a church may be known by the concurrent sense of her most eminent divines , or by her most authentick acts , as by the book of homilies , forms of prayer and thanksgivings , rubricks , injunctions , the judgement of convocation , even that of mdcxl , dr. st. hath made it evident , that the charge of idolatry is agreeable to the sense of the church of england . r. p. you thought t. g. would have quitted this post upon dr. st's second charge ; but you are mistaken in him ; for i have brought over a book of dialogues from paris , wherein t. g. undertakes again to prove this to be only the charge of fanaticks , and not of the church of england nor of the genuine sons of it . f. c. it is true ; we whom you call fanaticks do charge the church of rome , or rather the synagogue of antichrist , with idolatry ; for , is it not said , and they worshipped the beast ? but you must know for your comfort , that we do likewise charge the church of england with it . for what are all their bowings , and kneelings , and crossings , but vain imaginations ? and the worship of them is as bad as the worship of images . and do not they make an idol of the common prayer ? p. d. this is not fair , gentlemen ; but one at once i beseech you . as to your charge of the church of england , i shall be ready to answer it , when you can agree to bring it in . i now desire to know , what evidence t. g. brings to prove the charge of idolatry not to be agreeable to the sense of the church of england . hath he brought other homilies , other injunctions , other rubricks , other convocations , or at least other divines , generally received and owned for the genuine sons of this church , who have from time to time freed the church of rome from idolatry , and looked upon the charge , not only as unjust but pernicious and destructive to the being of a church ? nay , can he produce any one divine of the church of england , before the convocation mdcxl , that ever said any such thing , or did wholly acquit the church of rome from this charge ? if not , let him not think , we have a new church made after another model , and upon new principles , or that those can be esteemed the genuine sons of it , who contradict the sense of the church ever since the reformation . if there be any such among us , they ought first to be proved to be true sons of our church , before their testimony be allowed , which if i be not mistaken , will be much harder , than to prove the charge of idolatry to be agreeable to the sense of it . but what method doth t. g. take in this matter ? r.p. t. g. like a wary man disputes in masquerade . for he doth not think fit to appear in his own person ; but he brings in a conformist , and a non-conformist arguing the point . and the conformist speaks t. g.'s sense in acquitting the church of rome ; and the non-conformist vindicates dr. st. and makes a pitiful defence of him . p.d. it was very wittily done . and the scene was well enough laid , if the plot were only to represent dr. st. as a secret enemy to the church of england , as i suppose it was . but to what purpose are all those personal reflections : and some repeated over and over , with so much appearance of rancour and ill will , as doth not become a man of any common ingenuity ? can the catholick cause be maintained by no other arts than these ? methinks t. g. might have let the little whifflers in controversie , such as the authour of the address to the parliament , and of that precious pamphlet called jupiter dr. st's supreme god , &c. to have made a noise at they know not what ; crying out upon him as an enemy to the church of england , ( because he defends her cause to their great vexation ) and as a friend to pagan idolatry , ( because he hath laid open the folly of yours . ) these are such weak assaults as expose your cause to the contempt of all wise men ; who expect reason should be answered with reason , and not with calumnies and reproaches : which in my apprehension dr. st. ought to rejoyce in as the marks of victory ; for while they have any other ammunition left , no enemies will betake themselves to dirt and stones . when i read through the first part of t. g.'s dialogues , and observed how industriously he set himself to bespatter his adversary , and raked all the kennels he could for that purpose , ( especially that of the patronus bonae fidei , &c. ) i could not but think of an animal , which being closely pursued and in great danger , gets himself into the most convenient place for mire and dirt , and there so layes about him with his heels , that no one dares to come near him . it was certainly with some such design that t. g. hath at last taken sanctuary in a bog ; hoping his adversary will never pursue him thither . but notwithstanding this project of his , we will try , whether in spite of his heels we cannot bring him to reason . therefore i pray let us set aside all rude and unbecoming reflections , and calmly consider , how t. g. proves that the charge of idolatry is not agreeable to the sense of the church of england . r. p. hold sir ; you are a little too nimble , t. g. saith , his intention was only to shew , that dr. st. had not sufficiently proved it to be the sense of the church of england , from the testimony he then produced , whatsoever he might or could do from other acts or authours of that church . and he elsewhere saith , that t. g. did not dispute ex professo , whether it were the sense of the church of england , that the church of rome is guilty of idolatry or no ? nor , whether dr. st. dissented from the sense of his church ? but what he undertook to shew was no more than that two parts of the authours there cited by the dr. were puritans , or puritanically inclined , by the confession of other divines of the church of england ; and therefore according to dr. st 's own measures ( if they were good , ) their testimonies ought to be looked on as incompetent to prove what he asserted ; and for the other six , that what they charged with idolatry , was not the doctrine of the church of rome , but some things which they conceived to be great abuses in the practice of it . and this , he saith , is the true state of that controversie . p.d. if it be so , i cry t.g. mercy . for , i thought he designed to prove this charge of idolatry not to be agreeable to the sense of the church of england . but you say t. g. now denies it ; and if i were as dr. st. i would thank him for it . for , would any man say this , that thought it could ever be proved to be against the sense of the church of england ? and what could have been more material to his purpose than this , if it could have been done ? well fare t. g.'s ingenuity for once ! that finding it impossible to be done , he now denies that he ever attempted the doing it . but the first question in a fray is , how fell they out ? we shall better judge of t. g.'s design by the occasion of it . dr. st. affirmed that in the charge of idolatry he did not contradict the sense of the church of england . did he , or did he not ? if he did not , dr. st. was in the right : if he did , why did not t. g. shew it ? but after this yielding up the main point in effect , it is easie to prove that t. g. did design to shew , as well as he could , that the charge of idolatry was against the sense of the church of england ; but finding it would not do , he now disowns it . for ( . ) doth not t. g. appeal to the articles of the church of england for the most authentick declaration of her sense ? and because the church of rome is not there charged with idolatry , doth he not hence dispute ex professo , that it was against her sense ? to what purpose was that ingenious criticism , of being rather repugnant to the word of god ; which he interprets as though the composers of our articles had done their endeavour to find a command against the worship of images , but could not . what do you think of this argument ? what did t. g. intend to prove by it ? is it not as clear as the sun , that it was to shew that the charge of idolatry was against the sense of the church of england ? why then is t. g. ashamed now of it , and denies he had any such design ? there must be some more than ordinary cause of a mans denying what he once so openly avowed to do . nay , in these very dialogues , after repeating his former words , t. g. saith , thus clearly hath t. g. evinced the sense of the church of england in this matter . say you so ? and yet never designed to dispute ex professo , whether it were the sense of the church of england or not ? who is it i pray hath the knack of saying , and unsaying ; of affirming and denying the very same thing in a few leaves ? or did t. g. never intend any such thing ; but the church of england of her own accord , knowing t. g.'s good affections to her , stept into the court , and declared her sense ? have we not the best natured church in the world that is so kind to her enemies , and expresseth her sense to be on their side , whether they will or not ? our church then is like the countrey mans river which comes without calling ; alas ! what need t. g. dispute ex professo , what her sense is ; she offers her own testimony , and desires to be heard in the dispute whether t. g. will or not . let any man judge by these words what t. g.'s design was then , whatever he thinks fit to own now . ( . ) he shews , that if it had been the sense of the church of england in the articles , that the church of rome were guilty of idolatry in the worship of images , adoration of the host , or invocation of saints , all those who denyed it , would have incurred excommunication ipso facto , as appears by the canons . what was t. g.'s design in this , if it were not to prove the charge of idolatry to be against the sense of the church of england ? is this only to shew the witnesses dr. st. produced to be incompetent ? what a benefit it is , for a man to forget what he hath no mind to remember ! and then to deny as stoutly as if the thing had never been done . ( . ) is it not t. g. who in terms asserts that dr. st. betrayed his church in advancing such a medium , as contradicts the sense of that church , ( mark that . ) it is true , he adds , if it be to be taken from the sentiments of those , who are esteemed her true and genuine sons . was it t. g.'s design then , not to dispute what was the sense of the church of england ; nor whether dr. st. dissented from it ? i will not meddle with that , whether t. g. be a competent judge who are the true and genuine sons of the church of england . no doubt in his opinion , those who come nearest the church of rome are such ; and advance such speculations as lay the charge of schism at her own door . but true sons are no more for laying division to the charge of their mother , than the true mother was for dividing the son. those are certainly the most genuine sons of our church , who own her doctrine , defend her principles , conform to her rules , and are most ready to maintain her cause against all her enemies . and among these there is no difference , and there ought to be no distinction . but if any frame a church of their own heads , without any regard to the articles , homilies , and current doctrine of our church , and yet will call that the church of england , and themselves the only genuine sons of it , i do not question t. g. and your brethren would be glad to have them thought so , to lessen our number and impair our interest ; but none that understand and value our church , will endure such a pernicious discrimination among the sons of the same mother ; as though some few were fatally determined to be the sons of our church , whatever their works and merits were ; and others absolutely cast off , notwithstanding the greatest service . i should not mention this , but that i see t. g. insinuating all along such a distinction as this ; and crying up some persons on purpose as the only genuine sons of the church of england , that he might cast reproach upon others ; and thereby foment animosities among brethren . but whose children those are who do so , i leave t. g. to consider . r. p. whatever t. g.'s intention was , yet you cannot deny that he hath proved two parts in three to be incompetent witnesses according to his own measures . p. d. not deny it ? i never saw any thing more weakly attempted to be proved , as dr. st. hath shewed at large in his preface . bishop white being rejected as a puritan , because condemned by that party . bishop jewel , because k. charles said he was not infallible . bishop bilson , because of his errours about civil government , though a stout defender of the church of england . bishop davenant , because he was none of the fathers . bishop vsher , because his adversary gives an ill character of him . by this you may judge , what powerful exceptions t. g. made against two parts in three of the witnesses . r. p. t. g. saith , that dr. st. rather waved the exceptions by pretty facetious artifices of wit , than repelled them by a downright denial , out of the affection catharinus hopes he bears still to the cause , which had been honoured by such learned and godly bishops as jewel , downham , usher , the two abbots and davenant : which are recorded among the puritans by the patronus bonae fidei . p. d. you might as well have quoted surius & cochlaeus for your church ; as this patronus bonae fidei for ours . for he is an historian much of their size and credit . but of him we shall have occasion to speak hereafter : t. g. filling page after page out of him . let the reader judge whether dr. st. did not shew t. g.'s exceptions to be vain and srivolous , and consequently these remain substantial and competent witnesses . and as to the cause of the church of england , which these learned and pious prelates defended and honoured , dr. st. will rejoyce to be joyned with them , though it be in suffering reproach for the sake of it . r. p. let us pass over these single testimonies , and come to the most material proofs which dr. st. used , and t. g. declares , he is not yet convinced by them ; that the charge of idolatry was the sense of the church of england . p. d. with all my heart . the first was from the book of homilies , not barely allowed , but subscribed to , as containing godly and wholsome doctrine very necessary for these times ; which owns this charge of idolatry not in any doubtful , or single passage , but in an elaborate discourse intended for the teachers , as well as the people . to which he added , that the doctrine of the homilies is allowed in the thirty nine articles ; which were approved by the queen ; confirmed by the subscription of both houses of convocation , a. d. . and therefore he desires t. g. to resolve him , whether men of any common understanding would have subscribed to the book of homilies in this manner , if they had believed the main doctrine and design of one of them had been false and pernicious ? if , saith he , any of the bishops had at that time thought the charge of idolatry unjust , and that it had subverted the foundation of ecclesiastical authority , would they have inserted this into the articles , when it was in their power to have left it out ? and that the homilies contained a wholesome and godly doctrine , which in their consciences they believed to be false and pernicious ? he might as well think , he saith , that the council of trent would have allowed calvins institutions , as containing a wholesome and godly doctrine , as that men so perswaded would have allowed the homily against the peril of idolatry . and how is it possible to understand the sense of our church better , than by such publick and authentick acts of it , which all persons who are in any place of trust in the church must subscribe and declare their approbation of ? this homily hath still continued the same , the article the very same , and if so , they must acknowledge this hath been and is to this day the sense of our church . and to what t. g. saith , that this doth not evince every particular doctrine contained in the homilies to be godly and wholesome , because the whole book is subscribed to as containing such doctrine ; he answers , that there is a great deal of difference to be made between some particular passages and expressions in these homilies , and the main doctrine and design of a whole homily : and between subscribing to a whole book as containing godly and wholsome doctrine , though men be not so certain of the truth of every passage in it ; and if they are convinced that any doctrine contained in it is false and pernicious . now those who deny the church of rome to be guilty of idolatry do not only look on the charge as false , but as of dangerous consequence ; and therefore such a subscription would be shuffling and dishonest . from these things laid together , in my mind dr. st. hath not only clearly proved that the charge of idolatry was not only owned by the composers of the homilies , but by all who have honestly subscribed to the articles from that time to our own . and i would be glad to hear what answer t. g. gives to all this . r. p. he answers , first by repeating what he said before ; and then by shewing that subscription is no good argument , considering what had been done and undone in that kind in the reigns of k. henry . edw. . q. mary , and q. elizabeth , not to speak of latter times . p. d. what is this , but in plain terms to say the subscribers of our articles were men of no honesty or conscience ; but would say or unsay , subscribe one thing or another as it served their turn ? if this be his way of defending our church , we shall desire him to defend his own . but yet , this doth not reach home to the doctors argument , which proceeded not meerly on their honesty , but their having common understanding . for here was no force or violence offered them , they had the full power to consider the articles , and to compose the homilies , and would men of common sense put in things against their own minds , and make and approve and recommend homilies which they did not believe themselves ? this evidently proves the composers of the homilies and convocation at that time , did approve the doctrine of these homilies , for it was in their power not to have passed them . thus far it is plain that was the doctrine of the church then , and why should we suppose any subscribers to take them in any other sense , than the church did then mean them ? nay , dr. st. challenged him , to produce any one divine of our church , who through the long reign of q. elizabeth did so much as once question the truth of this charge . doth t. g. upon so long consideration of this matter name any ? r. p. not any that i find . p. d. but that will be best seen by considering dr. st.'s second argument of the sense of the church of england in this matter , viz. from the current doctrine of the church ever since the reformation , the injunctions of edw. . of cranmer , of q. elizabeth ; the form of thanksgiving , a. d. . r. p. to this t. g. answers , that this was a heat in the beginning of the reformation ; but after the crown was settled upon k. james , whose title was unquestionable both at rome , ( at home i suppose he means ) and abroad , the dangerous consequences of the charge of idolatry , began to be more calmly and maturely considered ; and were so throughly weighed in the time of k. charles i. that as heylin saith , bishop laud hindred the reprinting the books containing calvinian doctrines . which evidently shews , saith he , that that party never looked upon the expressions of idolatry contained in those injunctions as the dogmatical sense of the church of england . p. d. a very likely story ! that our church should vary in its doctrine , because k. james his title to the crown was unquestionable . it seems before , the church of rome was guilty of idolatry , because q. elizabeths title was not owned by the pope . what a fine insinuation is couched under all this ? viz. that our church depended wholly on the queens pleasure , and fitted her doctrines to serve her turn ; and when that was over , the tide turned , and that was pernicious doctrine now , which was wholesome before ; and wholesome now , which was pernicious before ; and yet there were the same articles , the same homilies , the same subscriptions which were before . r. p. but he quotes a doctour of your own church for what he saith , p. heylin , and delivers it in his words . p. d. p. heylin speaks not one word in that place of the charge of idolatry ; ( although t. g. seems to represent it so ) but of those who reviled the church of rome it self , and all the divine offices , ceremonies and performances of it . which it is plain he there speaks of the genevian party ; for but just before he mentions the geneva bible , and the dangerous positions contained in the annotations printed with it . now these persons whom he there speaks of , looked upon the church of rome as a meer synagogue of satan and no true church ; and all the offices and ceremonies of it to be so defiled , that no use could be made of them ; and on that account they rejected our liturgie and ceremonies as taken from the church of rome . although therefore , saith he , q. elizabeth might suffer such things to be printed in her time , yet b. laud would not allow the reprinting of them ; because q. elizabeth might out of state policy suffer the violent transports of irregular zeal , by reason of her personal quarrels with the pope ; yet now those reasons being over , b. laud would not suffer them to come abroad again . but that this expression cannot be understood of the charge of idolatry , i prove by these arguments . ( . ) pet. heylin himself preaching before k. charles i. and archbishop laud , did in plain terms charge the worship of images with most gross idolatry : as appears by the words cited at large in dr. st.'s general preface . what saith t. g. to this ? r. p. i do not find a particular answer to this , but i suppose he reckons him with those six of whom he saith , that they do not charge the church of rome it self , but the opinions of school divines and abuses in practice . p. d. that cannot be , for pet. heylin goes farther ; saying , that they who observe the manner of their worship of images , with what pilgrimages , processions , offerings , with what affections , prayers , and humble bendings of the body , they have been and are worshipped in the church of rome , might very easily conceive that she was once again relapsed into her ancient paganism . r. p. he saith , they might conceive so ; but he doth not say , they might justly conceive so . p. d. this is very subtle , and like t. g. himself . but i pray observe , p. heylin when he gives an account of the worship of images , saith , when the doctrine , which first began in the schools came to its growth , what fruits could it bear , but most gross idolatry , greater than which , was never known among the gentiles ? mark that for your satisfaction . what fruit could the doctrine bear , and that after it came out of the schools to its growth . and when he saith , they might conceive that rome was once again relapsed into her ancient paganism ; the meaning is , those that saw their worship of images in modern rome , and compared it with what was done in old rome , would see no difference ; the idolatry was so gross in both , that if there were nothing else to make a distinction , a man might easily conceive rome was relapsed into her ancient paganism . r. p. but what other argument have you to prove that p. heylin could not speak this of the charge of idolatry ? p. d. because in his introduction he owns the doctrine of the homilies as to this point of idolatry ; and that the compilers of the homilies were the more earnest in this point of removing or excluding images , the better to wean the people from the sin of idolatry , in which they had been trained up from their very infancy . and after , he adds , the people of this last age , being sufficiently instructed in the unlawfulness of worshipping such painted images , they may be lawfully used in churches , without fear of idolatry . what can this signifie , if he did not take the worship of images to be idolatry ? and therefore he could not look upon this as a heat in the beginning of the reformation ; and which was quite spent in the time of b. laud ; since not only p. heylin , but the arch-bishop himself saith , that the modern church of rome is too like paganism in the worship of images , and driven to scarce intelligible subtilties , in her servants writings that defend it ; and this without any care had of millions of souls unable to understand her subtilties or shun her practice . and in his defence against the charge of the commons , he said , that he had written against the adoration and superstitious use of images as fully as any man whatsoever . what think you now sir ? was this a heat in the beginning of the reformation ; and when men in archbishop lauds time , more duly weighed the consequences of this charge , they grew both cooler and wiser ? what evidence doth t. g. produce for this ? when the very person he produces for it , is so far from it , that he saith the contrary ; and are we not like to meet with very hopeful demonstrations in the scientifical way from him ? but i have one argument yet more , to prove there was no such change as to this matter , in archbishop lauds time ; which is from the convocation , a. d. . wherein no one questions the influence and direction of archbishop laud , and the concurrence of those of his party , as t. g. calls them ; and yet in that very book of pet. heylins , he might have seen that canon , wherein they acknowledge the idolatry of the mass ; and t. g. could not pretend any ignorance of this ; for dr. st. had quoted this very canon to this purpose , to shew that this was the sense of archbishops , bishops and clergy in convocation so lately ; and so long after the first heats of the reformation . but what answer doth t. g. give to this , which is so material a testimony , and so destructive to all he saith , upon this matter ? r. p. i do not remember he takes notice of it ; but if you please i will look , for i have his book about me . p. d. not take notice of it ? it is impossible . what! doth he pretend to answer , and pass by the plainest and strongest arguments , as if they had never been brought ? this is a very satisfactory way of answering , and becoming the ingenuity of t. g. : but i pray sir look again , i am afraid you wrong him . i suppose you never read dr. st.'s books , but only the answers to them , and then i do not wonder you applaud the answers , if they leave out the hardest arguments . r. p. you have a little startled me with this omission ; i have turned over all the leaves which relate to this matter very carefully , and i cannot find one word about it : surely it was an involuntary omission . p. d. how could that be involuntary , when it was produced and urged with great force , to shew that this was no puritanical charge ; no heat at the beginning of the reformation ; no private opinion of particular persons , but the sense of our whole church representative even in a. d. . r. p. i confess , i know not what to say more for him , but that it was an omission . p.d. no sir , that is not all ; for there is a fault of commission too ; for he doth not only leave out this , but he advances an hypothesis which he might easily see the falshood of , from this single testimony ; viz. that the charge of idolatry was only a heat of the beginning of the reformation , which was disowned in the time of k. charles and archbishop laud , when at the same time he could not but see the plainest evidence to the contrary by the convocation of a. d. . is your cause to be supported only by such tricks as these ? r. p. you are too like dr. st. whom t. g. charges with being too tragical upon such slight occasions ; and flinging and laying about him unreasonably for a thing of nothing ; as when t. g. mistook robert abbot for george . p. d. call you this a thing of nothing ? methinks it is rather making nothing of a very substantial thing . as to the other mistake , i suppose we shall hear of it ere long . i pray let us proceed in order . r. p. dr. st.'s third argument is from the rubrick at the end of the communion ; the words are these , whereas it is ordained in this office , for the administration of the lords supper ; that the communicants should receive the same kneeling . f.c. hold there i pray ; what ! receive the communion kneeling ! give me leave to come in now ; for i perceive you are hard pressed , and we ought to give friendly assistance to one another against these church of england-men ; and therefore i will prove them guilty of idolatry in receiving the sacrament kneeling . p. d. this will be a digression , but i alwayes owe so much service to the church of england , as to be ready to defend it from so unjust a charge ; therefore to your business . f. c. mr. case in his sermon before the long parliament at a general fast , on such a day saith thus — p. d. i pray sir speak to the point , i am not now at leisure to hear mr. cases sermon repeated . f. c. i hope you will not interrupt me . p. d. not , when you speak to the business : do you understand what idolatry is ? f. c. that is a question to be asked indeed ; as though i did not know what the cup of fornication means , that is idolatry ; and to bow at the name of jesus , and to bow to the altar , that is idolatry ; do you think i do not know what idolatry is ? methinks you should have more reverence for a man of my years , than to ask me such a sawcy question ; have i preached this thirty years and more in the army and in private congregations , and live to be asked such a question by you ? sir i knew what idolatry was before you were born . p. d. then i hope you can tell me , now i am of age to understand it . f. c. why , have i not told you already ? p. d. i pray sir let us talk calmly , and understand one another , which we shall never do unless we agree what is idolatry . i pray give me the definition of it . f. c. the definition ! when i was a young man as you are , i had as many definitions in my head as any body ; but we that are upon constant duties of another nature cannot trouble our heads with definitions or such idle notions . but alas we grow old ; and such things are soon forgotten . i remember in my younger dayes i read bucanus , polanus , and amesius ; nay , there was not a good systeme of orthodox divinity to be had , but i read it , and noted it ; but i lost my notes in the time of the wars , and could never recover them . p. d. this is a little off from our business ; i hope you are better at application of the point than at explication of it . what is it in the church of england you do charge with idolatry ? f. c. kneeling at the sacrament . p. d. for what reason ? f. c. stay a little : i thought i had my arguments at my fingers ends ; but see how strangely good things slip out of our memories ! but now i remember , i have some short notes about me which i took out of mr. gillespie's idolatry of the english popish ceremonies ; and let me tell you , he was a mighty man in his dayes against the church of england , and this book of his did great execution upon the bishops in scotland . i can remember , how much it affected the brethren in england , and how we compared him to one of davids worthies that killed the giants of the philistins . p. d. sir , at this rate of talking it will be night before you come to the question , methinks you seem to have nothing to say against us of the church of england . f. c. i nothing to say against you ! who ever heard me , without having something to say against you ? i tell you sir , i look upon your church as the younger sister to the whore of babylon : never a barrel the better herring ; only we can have liberty of conscience with one , and not with the other . it is all one to me to bow to an image , and to bow to the altar ; to worship images , and to kneel at the sacrament . p. d. i am in hopes you are now coming to the point , i pray keep there without any farther rambling . f. c. call you this rambling ? you know amesius saith , even in controverted points , much respect ought to be had to the experience of gods people ; i tell you , i have found it thus with me , and you ought rather to hear me teach you , than dispute with me . p. d. all this shall not serve ; i must have your arguments since you urge me thus . f. c. why look ye now , d' ye see how petulant and malapert these divines of the church of england are . but since nothing will satisfie you , but arguing , i have an argument ready for you will do your business . to worship the bread is idolatry ; but to kneel at the sacrament is to worship the bread. ergo. p. d. i am glad to find you come to any kind of reasoning . i deny , that in kneeling at the sacrament , we do worship the bread ; for our church expresly declares the contrary in this rubrick . f. c. what do i care for your church or her rubricks ? i say you do worship the bread and prove it too . that which you kneel before and look towards , when you worship , you do give the worship to : but you kneel before and look towards the bread when you worship . ergo. p. d. i begin to be afraid of you now ; for you do not only prove by this argument kneeling at the sacrament , but reading the common prayer to be idolatry ; for if that which we kneel before and look towards when we worship , must be the object of our worship , it is plain we must indeed make an idol of the common prayer ; for every time we read it we kneel before it and looks towards it when we worship . f. c. look you to that , i alwayes took the common prayer for an idol , but i did not think , i had proved it now . p. d. i shall endeavour to undeceive you in this matter . since we are not pure spirits , but must worship god with our bodies , by kneeling and looking towards something in our acts of worship ; we must not determine that to be the object of our worship which our bodies are bended towards , or we look upon in our worship , unless there be some other reason for it ; for then idolatry would be necessary and unavoidable . for we cannot kneel with our eyes open , but we must look upon some creature , which according to your way of arguing , must be the object of our worship . i pray sir , without being angry , give me leave to ask you , whether a man kneeling in the fields and praying with his eyes lifted up to heaven be an idolater or not ? f. c. i think not . p. d. yet he kneels towards some creature , and looks upon some creature when he worships ; therefore you must prove by some other way , that we do make the bread the object of our worship . but this we utterly deny ; and say the doing it is idolatry and to be abhorred of all faithful christians . and will you make us worship it , whether we will or no ? f. c. but you use the same postures which the papists do , and yet you charge them with idolatry ? p. d. because this is a thing many of you stumble at , i will make the difference of our case , and theirs plain to you . in all moral acts we are to have a great great regard to their circumstances , from whence they take a different denomination . he that kills a man by accident , and he that kills a man out of malice , do the very same thing as to the substance of the act ; yet no man will say it is the same act upon a moral consideration . we kneel , and the papists kneel : but we declare when we kneel , we intend no adoration to the elements : but the papists cannot deny that they do give proper adoration to that which is before them ; which we say is bread , and they say , the body of christ under the species of bread ; and yet not meerly to the invisible body of christ , but taking the species of bread as united to that body of christ , and so directing their worship to these two together as the proper objects of divine adoration . and to make this evident to you , their adoration is performed at the elevation of the host ; and at the carrying it about in processions , and at the exposing it on their altars ; and not meerly in the participation of it . whence it is observable , that the church of rome doth not strictly require kneeling at the participation , which it would do , if it looked on the kneeling at receiving as a proper act of adoration . the rubricks of the mass , do not , that i can find , require the priest to kneel in the act of receiving ; and the pope when he celebrates , receives sitting . espencaeus saith , in the church of lions , many of the people did not receive kneeling ; and upon complaint made about it , they were by the advice of two cardinals left to their old custome . and i wonder your brethren have not taken notice of the difference of kneeling at the elevation of the host , and in the act of receiving it ; the one was required by the constitution of honorius , and was intended for an act of adoration to the host : the other was derived from the ancient church , which although it did not alwayes use the same posture of adoration that we do ; yet it is sufficient for our purpose , if they received the sacrament in the same posture in which they worshipped god. and this i could easily prove , if this were a place or season for it . f. c. well sir , i do not love disputing ; i pray go on with your former adversary . r. p. sir , i thank you for the diversion you have given us , if you please i will now return to the place where we left ; i was about to tell you the answer t. g. gives to dr. st.'s third argument from the rubrick at the end of the communion . the words are , it is here declared that by kneeling no adoration is intended or ought to be done , either unto the sacramental bread or wine , there bodily received , or unto any corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood. for the sacramental bread and wine remain still in their very natural substances , and therefore may not be adored , for that were idolatry to be abhorred of all faithful christians ; and the natural body and blood of christ are in heaven ; and not here , it being against the truth of christs natural body to be at one time in more places than one . about which dr. st. charges t. g. first with ignorance in saying , it was not yet above a douzen years since it was inserted into the communion book ; whereas he might have found it above a hundred years before in the liturgie of edw. . to which t. g. answers , that the various fate of this rubrick , first in not being annexed till the second liturgie of edw. . and being cast out again in the year . and then admitted again almost a hundred years after , is no eviction to him , that the charge of idolatry is the dogmatical doctrine of the church of england . p. d. if this were all the declaration our church had made of her sense , and the intention of this rubrick were only to declare this point of idolatry , there were some probability in what t. g. suggests . but i have shewed already , how fully our church hath declared her sense about romish idolatry by other wayes ; and the design of this rubrick was not to express her sense of idolatry , so much as to give satisfaction to those who scrupled the lawfulness of kneeling . for which cause it was first put in , and afterwards not thought necessary to be continued , when persons were better satisfied about the intention of our church . but when after long disuse and violent prejudices the dissenters were grown unacquainted with the design and intention of our church , there was the same reason for inserting it again , which held at first for putting it in . and what now hath t. g. gained by this observation ? if it had been , as he imagined , what he had gotten in one point , he had lost in another : for then it would appear , that there was no such heat in the beginning of q. elizabeths dayes , if they were willing to leave out such a declaration of the idolatry of the church of rome , at that time when q. elizabeths title was the most disputed at rome ; so that from hence appears the vanity of t. g.'s former observation , and how far they were from taking things into our liturgie out of spite to the pope ; nay , so far were they from this , that in the first year of q. elizabeth , that petition in the letany was left out , which had been inserted by henry . and continued in both liturgies of edw. . from the tyranny of the bishop of rome , and all his detestable enormities , good lord — and this he might have found in the same historian . and was not the title of head of the church taken by her father and brother so qualified and explained then , as might prevent any occasion of quarreling at it by the most captious persons ? do these passages look like doing things on purpose to provoke and exasperate , and out of pure spite to the pope , or like putting in things on purpose to heighten the differences , when t. g. himself confesses , they left out this rubrick , and it is evident they did leave out some of the most provoking expressions ? r. p. i see you cannot bear the charge of intemperate heat on the beginning of the reformation . p. d. i cannot bear such an unreasonable and unjust imputation as this is ; and i have a particular esteem for the wisdom , learning and piety which was shewed in the ecclesiastical part of our reformation . but how doth t. g. take off the charge of idolatry in this rubrick ? r. p. he saith , he takes the meaning of it not to be , the denying adoration to be due in regard of christs body being present spiritually , but truly in the sacrament ; but only that no adoration ought to be done to any corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood , as the word corporal is taken to signifie the natural manner of a bodies being present . for which he gives these reasons , ( . ) because those words in the second liturgie of edw. . no adoration ought to be done to any real or essential being of christs natural flesh and blood , are now changed [ into any corporal presence of christ natural flesh and blood . ] ( . ) because the protestant divines do yield the real presence of christs body , for which he quotes bishop taylor and bishop cosins ; and he desires dr. st. so to explain these words , as not to undermine the constant doctrine of the church of england concerning the real presence , and leave us nothing but pure zuinglianism in the place of it . p. d. i am so much his friend , that at this time i will undertake this task for him . first , we must consider the words of the rubrick . ( . ) how this sense of it can be reconciled with the real presence as owned by the church of england . ( . ) for the meaning of the rubrick . we are to consider that the rubrick denies adoration to be intended , either unto the sacramental bread and wine , or unto any corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood . and after , it gives two distinct reasons for denying adoration to either of these . . to the sacramental bread and wine , for this reason , because they remain still in their very natural substances , and therefore may not be adored , for that were idolatry to be abhorred of all faithful christians . . to the corporal presence of christs natural flesh and blood ; because the natural body and blood of our saviour christ are in heaven , and not here , it being against the truth of christs natural body , to be at one time in more places than one . you see , here are two plainly distinct reasons given for denying adoration to the elements , and to the natural body of christ. the former is said to be idolatry ; the latter to be absurd and unreasonable , it being repugnant to the truth of christs body to be in more places than one at one time . so that the sense of the rubrick lyes in these two propositions . . that it is idolatry to give adoration to the elements remaining in their natural substances . . that it is absurd to believe christs natural body to be present , because then it must be in more places than one , which is repugnant to the truth of a body . these things to my apprehension are the plain and natural sense of this rubrick . r. p. but we do not give adoration to the sacramental elements , but to the body of christ. p. d. i do believe i can prove that you give adoration to the sacramental elements , as they make up one entire object of adoration with the body of christ ; but that is not my present business ; which is to shew the sense of our church , which lyes in these particulars . . that the sacramental elements do remain in their natural substances after consecration . . that , to adore them so remaining is idolatry , and to be abhorred of all faithful christians . no one questions the former to be the sense of our church ; the only question lyes in the later , whether that be idolatry or no ? it is no question , that to give divine adoration to any creature is idolatry ; and it is so acknowledged on all sides ; the only question then can be , whether the substance of bread and wine be a creature or not ? and this is no question with any man in his wits : therefore to give adoration to the substance of bread and wine is idolatry . no demonstration in euclid is plainer than this . r. p. but i tell you , we do not worship the creature , but the body of christ. p. d. i tell you again , if there be a creature you do worship it , for you give adoration to what is before you , be it what it will ; if it be a creature you adore it . r. p. but we say , it is not a creature we worship . p. d. do not you give adoration to that which is consecrated , whether it remains a creature or not after consecration ? at the elevation of the host , at the carrying it about , at the exposing of it on the altar , you worship that which was consecrated do you not ? r. p. we worship that which was bread before consecration , but after , is no longer so but the body of christ. p. d. but if it should remain bread after consecration , what do ye adore then ? is it not the substance of the bread ? r. p. yes , but we believe it is not the bread . p. d. that is not the question , what you believe ; for they that believed god to be the soul of the world , worshipped the parts of it upon a supposition , which if it had been true would have justified their worship , every jot as well as yours can do you , and yet they were gross idolaters for all that . nay , i will say more to you , there never were idolaters in the world , that did not proceed upon a false supposition , and it may be not so unreasonable as yours . this cannot therefore excuse you , if your supposition proves false ; as no doubt it is ; that the substance of the bread doth not remain after consecration . but i now ask you what your adoration is , in the opinion of those persons who do firmly believe the sacramental elements to remain in their natural substances . is it not the giving divine worship to a creature ? and is not the giving divine worship to a creature idolatry ? so that according to the sense of our church the worship of the host must be idolatry . r. p. but what have you got by all this ? for we confess our selves , that if the substance of bread and wine do remain after consecration we are as great idolaters as they that worship a red cloath . p. d. upon my word , you had need then to be well assured , that the substance of bread and wine do not remain ; and yet i must tell you , we can be certain of nothing in the world , if we are not certain that the substance of bread and wine do remain after consecration . for if we are certain of nothing by our senses , but of the outward accidents ( which is all your best men do say in this case ) we cannot be certain of any visible substance in the world , for no bodily substance can be discerned , but by our senses ; and so all foundation of certainty by sense is destroyed . nay , farther , it takes away all certainty by reason , for it confounds the clearest maxims of it , by overthrowing all mathematical proportions of great and small , whole and parts ; by destroying all notions of distance and place ; by jumbling the notions of body and spirit . and lastly , it takes away all certainty by revelation , which can never come to us , but upon the supposition of the certainty of sense and reason . r. p. o sir , i see what you would be at ; you would fain draw me into a dispute about transubstantiation , upon principles of reason ; i beg your pardon sir. this is a matter of faith , and must be stoutly believed , or else we are gone . no more of this sir , to your business of idolatry i pray . p. d. i was only giving you some caution by the by , how much you are concerned to look about you ; but since you are resolved to shut your eyes , i return to the sense of our church about the idolatry of the mass ; and it follows necessarily from our former discourse , that since our church believes the substance of the elements do remain , and that your worship doth really fix upon that substance , whatever your intentions be , it is really idolatry . r. p. however this only proves it to be material idolatry , and not formal . p. d. i have often heard of this distinction , but i could never be satisfied with it : for what is material and formal idolatry ? r. p. material idolatry i take to be mistaken worship ; i. e. i do give divine worship to a false object , but i do not intend to give it to a false object of worship , but to a true one . p. d. then formal idolatry must be giving divine worship to a false object of worship , knowing it to be a false object . and where are there any such idolaters to be found in the world ? did not the heathens believe that to be god which they worshipped ? and is not god a true object of worship ? only they mistook that to be god which was not ▪ and so were only material idolaters ; even those that worshipped their images for gods , were only mistaken ; for they had a good intention only to worship god , but they unhappily took their images for gods. and i must needs say , they who took the sun , moon and stars for gods , and worshipped them as such , were very excusable in comparison of those who take a piece of bread for god , or that which appears like it . r. p. you are very severe methinks ; but do you think there is no difference among idolaters ? p. d. yes , i tell you there is , but not much to your comfort . the grosser mens erour is , the more means to convince men of it , the more wilful their blindness and continuance in it , the more culpable they are in their idolatry , and consequently the less excusable . r. p. but may not a man innocently mistake ? as if in the dark , a child should ask blessing of one that is not his father , would his father have reason to be angry with him ? p. d. not for once , or if it were in the dark ; but if he should see him every day go very formally to a joyn'd stool in the hall , or to a brown loaf in the buttery , and there very solemnly down upon his knees to them , and beg their blessing ; tell me what you think the father would say , to such a mistake ? would he excuse him , saying , alas poor child , he intended all this to me , only he mistook the brown loaf or a joyn'd stool for me ! r. p. forbear such comparisons ; for we have divine revelation , this is my body ; and we believe his word against all you can say in this matter . p. d. but what will you say , if by the confession of many of the best and most learned of your own divines , you have not divine revelation for it ; and that those words cannot prove that the substance of bread doth not remain after consecration , which is the thing we now enquire after : and if it were not to go off from our present business , i would undertake to prove this evidently to you . r. p. however we have the authority of our church for it . p. d. you had as good say , you are resolved to believe it ; for the authority of your church can never perswade any man that is not . r. p. when you are gotten to this point of transubstantiation , it is hard to get you off . it is the sore place of our church , and you are like flyes in summer , alwayes busie about it . i pray return to your rubrick , for you seem to have forgotten it . p. d. no , i have been pursuing it hitherto . r. p. but what say you to t. g.'s reasons , why this must be understood of a corporeal presence of christs natural body , because you else overthrow the doctrine of a real presence which hath been accounted the doctrine of the church of england . p. d. to this i answer , ( . ) the rubrick saith expresly , that it is against the truth of christs natural body to be at one time in more places than one . it doth not say against the corporeal presence of his natural body , but the truth of it ; from whence it follows , that our church believes the true natural body of christ , which was born of the virgin , suffered on the cross , and ascended into heaven , can be but in one place ; which is declared in the foregoing words , and the natural body and blood of our saviour christ are in heaven and not here : i. e. in heaven exclusively from being in the sacrament . which are not true , if the same natural body of christ could be at the same time in heaven and in the host. r. p. how then can your divines hold a real presence of christs body , as t. g. saith they do ? p. d. you had heard if you had staid till i came to my second answer , which is , that notwithstanding this , our church doth hold , that after consecration , the elements do become the body and blood of christ , and so there is a real presence of christs body ; but not of his natural , but of a mystical body . i will endeavour to make this out to you , because you look strangely upon me , as if i were big of some mighty paradox . when paschasius radbertus did first broach the modern doctrine of the roman church about the same body of christ being in the sacrament , which was born of the b. virgin , in the western church , he met with great opposition therein from the most learned divines of that age ; among the rest , there lived then in the court of carolus calvus a man very eminent for his learning , called joh. scotus , or erigena . this man at the request of carolus calvus delivered his opinion directly contrary to paschasius ; for whereas he asserted , that the very same body of christ which was born of the b. virgin , was invisibly present under the accidents of bread and wine , scotus denyed , that the elements were in any real sense after consecration the body and blood of christ , the sacrament being only a bare commemoration , or figurative representation of the body and blood of christ. so hincmarus who lived in that age delivers his opinion ; which was afterwards taken up by berengarius , as appears by lanfrank's answer to him . and ascelinus in his epistle to berengarius shews that joh. scotus out of opposition to paschasius , set himself to prove from the fathers , that what was consecrated on the altar was not truly and really the body and blood of christ. these two opposite doctrines being thus dispersed , and a schism being likely to break out upon it , as appears both by ratramnus , and the anonymous authour , published by cellotius , ( and extant in ms in the cotton library ) carolus calvus sends to ratramnus ( an eminent divine of that age , being imployed by the gallican church to defend the latins against the greeks ) to know his judgement in this matter . he , ( who is better known by the name of bertram ) gives , in his preface , an account to his prince of both these opinions , and rejects them both , as against the sense of the fathers and doctrine of the church . in the first part of his book , he disputes against scotus who would allow no mysterie , and in the second against paschasius who contended that the same body of christ was in the sacrament , which was born of the b. virgin : this , he saith , was the state of the second question , whether that very body of christ which sits at the right hand of god , be re●eived by believers in the sacramental mysterie ? and he proves the negative at large from the testimonies of the fathers ; shewing , that they did put a difference between that body of christ which was born of the virgin , and suffered on the cross , and that true but mystical body of christ on the altar ; and so , from the testimonies of s. ambrose , s. augustine , s. hierom , fulgentius ; from the scriptures ; and from the offices of the church , he concludes point-blank against paschasius , that it was not the same body of christ in the sacrament which was born of the b. virgin. but then against the opinion of scotus , he delivers his mind fully in answer to the first question , saying , if there were nothing in the sacrament but what appeared to the senses , it was unfitly called a mysterie ; and there would be no exercise for faith ; no change at all wrought in the elements ; the sacrament would fall short of baptism and the manna in the wilderness : and lastly , to what purpose did christ promise his flesh to be the food of his people , which being not to be understood carnally and literally must have a spiritual signification ; so that , though as to their outward appearance the sacramental elements are figures , yet according to the invisible power and efficacy they are the body and blood of christ. and this he shews , to have been the sense of the fathers and christian church . this opinion of ratramnus , paschasius in his epistle to frudegardus , calls the doctrine of those who deny the presence of christs flesh in the sacrament ; but do hold an invisible power and efficacy in and with the elements ; because , say they , there is no body but what is visible and palpable . and whoever will read that epistle of paschasius will find the expressions , he answers , the very same that yet occur in the book of bertram . of the same opinion with ratramnus in this matter , was rabanus maurus , the greatest divine accounted of his age , who wrote his epistle to egilo against them , who had lately broached that doctrine ( mark that ) that the body of christ in the sacrament , was the very same which was born of the b. virgin , and suffered on the cross and rose from the dead . and this appears from his epistle to heribaldus still extant ; wherein he saith , he declared in what sense the sacrament was the body of christ. besides , the anonymus authour published by cellotius , ( the only person about that time who appeared in behalf of the doctrine of paschasius , and very inconsiderable in comparison of his adversaries ) confesseth the opposition made to paschasius by rabanus and ratramnus , and endeavours to excuse his simplicity in asserting that the same flesh of christ was upon the altar , which was born of the virgin , by a new and extravagant supposition of the sacrament being the medium of uniting two real bodies of christ ; viz. of his flesh and of his church , and therefore that must be a real body of christ too ; which is so remote from justifying paschasius his doctrine , that cellotius himself is ashamed of him . this same doctrine of rabanus and ratramnus is expresly owned by the saxon homilies , which deny the sacrament to be a meer commemoration according to the opinion of joh. erigena , but say that after consecration the bread becomes the body of christ after a spiritual and mystical manner ; and in the saxon code of canons it is expresly determined , not to be that body of christ which suffered on the cross. and this i assert to be the very same doctrine which the church of england embraced upon the reformation ; as most consonant to scripture and the fathers ; which although it doth declare against the natural body of christ , being in more places than one , even that body of christ which is in heaven , yet in the articles it declares , that the body of christ is given , taken and eaten , so that to the faithful receivers the bread consecrated and broken becomes the communion of the body of christ , and the cup of blessing the communion of the blood of christ. and so in the catechism , it is said , that the body and blood of christ are verily and indeed taken of the faithful in the lords supper ; i. e. that after consecration such a divine power and efficacy doth accompany the holy sacrament as makes the elements to become the spiritual and mystical body of christ ; as the church is really but mystically the body of christ , because of his spirit dwelling in them . so the apology of our church saith , that in the lords supper there is truly exhibited the body and blood of christ , because that is the proper food of our souls , as bread and wine tends to the nourishment of our bodiess and if the time would permit , i could not only more largely prove this to be the sense of our church , but that it is the true and genuine sense of the fathers both of the greek and latine church . and thus i hope , i have done that which t. g. thought so impossible a thing , viz. to explain this rubrick , so as not to undermine the doctrine of the real presence asserted by the church of england , nor to leave nothing but pure zuinglianism in the place of it . r. p. i was afraid of a paradox , and it appears , not without reason , for i never met with any one yet who explained the doctrine of bertram and the church of england after this manner ; and all that attempted it talked so in the clouds , that transubstantiation it self did not seem more hard to understand : but i remember pet. de marca hath proved , that the book of bertram was the same which was written by joh. scotus , and therefore your hypothesis is utterly overthrown . p. d. i have read and considered that faint attempt of that great man , which seemed to be designed for no other end but to make us believe that bertrams book was burned for heretical at the synod of vercelles ; but if any one will impartially consider the book of bertram and compare it with the account given of the opinion of joh. scotus by the writers against berengarius , they will find de marca's opinion without the least colour of probability . r. p. but card. perron , mauguin , cellotius and arnaud all say , that bertram in the first part disputes against the stercoranists , who were a sort of hereticks , who held that the body of christ in the eucharist was passible , corruptible and digestible , and in all things just as the bread appeared to our senses ; and asserted , that all the accidents of the bread were founded hypostatically in the body of christ , and not to have any proper subsistence of their own . p. d. these were a notable sort of hereticks , if they could be found ; but it appears by the enemies of berengarius that this opprobrious name was fixed by them on all those who asserted the substance of the bread to remain after consecration ; and it would be very strange if bertram should confute that which himself asserts ; for he saith , the sacramental elements do pass into the nourishment of our bodies . but if any were lyable to this accusation , it must be paschasius ; if pet. de marca's observation of him be true , that he held both substance and quantity of the bread and wine to be turned into the body of christ ; from whence it follows , that must be the subject of all those accidents which were in the bread before ; which is the very sink of stercoranism . nay , i am very much deceived , if pope nicholas . in the recantation prescribed to berengarius did not fall into the filth of it far more than rabanus or heribaldus ; for he asserts therein , that the body of christ is truly and sensibly handled and broken by the hands of priests and ground by the teeth of believers . but what place could be fitter for this heresie , than the sedes stercoraria ? and guitmundus striving to help pope nicholas and his council out , falls into the same heresie himself : for he shews that christs body may be handled and chewed in the sacrament ; if so , it must be the subject of the accidents of the bread and wine . which according to perron and his followers is plain stercor●nism . r. p. but do not you fall into another heresie , viz. of impanation ? p. d. a man had need look to his words , when heresies are so common , and buz so about a mans ears . and some think they confute a man with a vengeance , if they can find out some heresie with a hard name to fasten upon him . but if you did know wherein the heresie of impanation lay , you would never charge this doctrine of our church with it . for i find two distinct wayes of impanation , and this doctrine is lyable to neither of them . . by union of the bread to the body of christ , and by that to the divinity , which was the way of joh. parisiensis . . by an immediate conjunction of the divine nature to the bread ; not meerly by divine efficacy and power , but by an hypostatical vnion : which is the opinion not without ground , attributed to rupertus tuitiensis ; and is lyable to this great absurdity , that all that befals the bread may be attributed to the person of christ , which bellarmine saith , it is blasphemy to imagine . and then it might be said , that the bread is god , that the word is made bread , and that god is both bread and wine . but all which the doctrine of our church implyes is only a real presence of christs invisible power and grace so in and with the elements , as by the faithful receiving of them to convey spiritual and real effects to the souls of men : as the bodies assumed by angels might be called their bodies , while they assumed them ; or rather as the church is the body of christ , because of his spirit quickning and enlivening the souls of believers : so the bread and wine after consecration are the real but the spiritual and mystical body of christ. if any one yet thinks , that some at least of our divines have gone farther than this , let them know , it is the doctrine of our church i am to defend , and not of every particular divine in it ; and if any do seem to speak of the presence of the very same body which is in heaven , i desire them in the first place to reconcile that doctrine with this dogmatical assertion at the end of this rubrick ; that it is against the truth of christs natural body , ( not against the corporal presence of it ) to be at one time in more places than one . let men imagine what kind of presence they please of the same body , i only desire to know , whether to be in heaven , and to be in the sacrament , be to be in the same or distinct places ? if the places be distinct , as no doubt heaven and earth are , then our church declares that it is contrary to the truth of christs natural body to be in more places than one at one time . r. p. but cannot god annihilate that cylinder of air between the body of christ in heaven , and the sacrament on the altar , and so make them both to be in one place ? p. d. this is a very idle and extravagant question ; because , if it be granted , it only proves that there is nothing between christs body in heaven , and the host , but it doth not prove the host to be that body of christ ; and withal , since so many thousand hosts are consecrated in a day , you must suppose so much air annihilated as lies between christs body and all those hosts ; but can any man imagine god should annihilate so much air every time a priest consecrates ? and i remember a good saying of cajetan , non est disputandum de divina potentia ubi de sacramentis tractatur ; we must not dispute of gods absolute power about the matter of sacraments ; because these are so often celebrated , that we are to suppose no more than an ordinary power to be imployed about them . and suppose we should grant a thing possible by gods absolute power , he saith , it is folly to assert all that to be in the sacrament which god can do . however , this doth not reach this rubrick , which supposes distinct places , and saith , it is contrary to the truth of christs natural body to be in more places than one at one time . r. p. but may not all this be understood , as t. g. suggests , of the natural manner of a bodies being present in more places than one ; viz. that it is repugnant to the truth of christs natural body to be naturally present or in a corporeal manner in more places than one ; but it may be naturally present but in one place ; i. e. by way of extension or quantity ; but it may be present in more places after another manner ? p. d. i think you have strained for this , and it is your last effort : to which i answer . ( . ) it yields no advantage to t. g. for supposing that some of our divines did hold it possible , that the same body might be present in several places after a different manner , yet how doth it hence follow , that the rubrick doth not charge them who worship the substance of bread and wine with idolatry ? ( . ) supposing the church did fix this charge upon those who worship the body of christ as present , i desire to know whether another kind of presence would excuse from idolatry ? i. e. supposing that to worship christs body as corporeally present be idolatry , it would not be idolatry to worship the very same body as present after another manner ? which is all one , as to ask , whether if it be idolatry to worship a man with his cloaths on , it be likewise idolatry to worship him with his cloaths off ? if it be , the very same body , let the manner of its being present be the same or different , it doth not alter the nature or reason of worship . only of the two , it seems more unreasonable to worship an invisible body than a visible one ; for in a visible body , he that worships is sure of something that he sees , but when he fancies an invisible body present , he fancies something which if it were , must be seen , and yet though he cannot see it , he resolves to worship it . ( . ) it is altogether as unreasonable to believe that a body may be present in several places after a different manner , as after the same manner . for whereever a body is really present , let it be with extension or without , it is so in that place as not to be in another ; i. e. the body of christ being in the host on the altar , is so there , as not to be on the floor , or any other place about it ; for otherwise , it could not be said to be only under the accidents : i then ask , on what account the same body cannot be present in two places at once after the same manner , and yet may be after a different manner ? aquinas saith , it doth imply a contradiction for the same body to be in several places at once after the same manner , i. e. by way of extension or quantity ; because , it is necessary for the same thing to be undivided from it self , but that which is in several places must be divided from it self . but as conink well observes , this argument proves it as impossible for the same body to be in several places after a different manner , for it is never the less divided from it self by being in one place after another manner than in the other : yea it will be more divided , because it will be after two several wayes repugnant to each other . and it is much more easie to conceive that a body should be in two several places after a natural manner , than to be so in one place ; and in another , after such a spiritual manner as is very hard to be understood . it is much more repugnant , saith maeratius , for the same body to be extended and not extended , than to have a double extension . if it be repugnant to the finite nature of a body , to be in more places than one , because then it might be present in all places ; this , saith lugo , will hold against a sacramental presence ; for that comes nearer to a divine immensity for a body to be in more places without quantity , than with it . suarez and gamachaeus say , this comes nearer to ubiquity , because a sacramental presence supposes the body to be whole in every part , which a natural doth not . and they grant , that all the contradictions which follow upon being present in several places after a natural manner , will hold if the one be natural and the other not : i. e. that the same body may be above it self and below it self , within it self and without it self ; and may move with two contrary motions upwards and downwards , forwards and backwards ; it may be hot in one place and cold in another ; it may be alive in one place and dead in another ; and which is the highest contradiction , one would think , by force of this principle , a man may be damned in one place and saved in another . and no less a man than ysambertus hath defended the possibility of this , upon this principle ; for , saith he , a man as in one place may be killed in a mortal sin , and so be damned ; whereas in another place he may have contrition ( and absolution ) and so be saved . but vasquez asks an untoward question , suppose such a man be reduced to one place , whether shall he be saved or damned ? for he cannot then be both ; and there is no more reason he should be put out of the state of grace by the state of sin , than out of the state of sin by the state of grace . such horrible contradictions do men run into rather than let go an absurd hypothesis ; and suarez confesseth , that a sacramental presence , is liable to the same contradictions , because that supposeth a capacity for acts of the mind under it . ( . ) i say , that asserting a body to be present naturally in one place , and spiritually and indivisibly in more , doth involve more contradictions in it , than to be present in several places after a natural manner . for the very manner of a bodies being present indivisibly carries contradictions along with it peculiar to it self . for whereever there is a body , there must be quantity , and whereever there is quantity there must be divisibility ; how then can a divisible body be indivisibly present ? if they say , it is after the manner of a spirit , that doth by no means salve the contradiction ; for how can a body be after the manner of a spirit ? and if it can , how can the notion of body and spirit be differenced from each other ? if actual extension may be separated from a body , why not quantity it self ? why may not divisibility be separated from a line ? and two and two not make actually four , supposing that they retain their intrinsick aptitude to do it ? what becomes of the differences of greater and less , since that which is greater may be contained under the less ; and so the very same thing will be greater or less , greater and not greater than it self ? what notion can we have of distance , since here a body is supposed to have all its organical parts , head , breast , legs and feet ; and yet no local distance between head and feet ? r. p. i see it is a dangerous thing to give you but a hint about transubstantiation ; if you but once take the scent , you run on so fast that it is a very hard matter to take you off . i did not think this rubrick could have held us thus long ; but i see you were resolved to have two or three throws at transubstantiation in passing , though i warned you before about it . p. d. no sir , it was t. g.'s fixing such an absurd sense upon our church , as though she made it idolatry to worship christs body as present after a corporeal manner , and not after another ; which made me insist so long upon this . r. p. what saith my fanatick acquaintance to all this ? what! sleeping ? f. c. only a nod or two ; i hearkened a while , but i found you were about hard and unsavoury notions ; truly it was to me no awakening discourse . r. p. come , come we will keep you waking ; we are now come to the puritan cause . f. c. ay , ay , there is some life in that . r. p. what think you , was robert abbot bishop of salisbury a puritan or not ? f. c. what! a bishop a puritan ! a good one i warrant you : a puritan in lawn sleeves ! a puritan with cross and surplice ! you know well what belongs to a puritan , do you not ? i tell you , there never was a true puritan but abhorred these things with all his heart . what do you tell me of a bishop of salisbury for a puritan ? i say again , if he had been so , he would have taken his lawn sleeves and thrown them into the fire . p. d. but i pray sir , how comes in this discourse about bishop abbot ? r. p. i will tell you ; among other divines produced by dr. st. to prove the charge of idolatry maintained against the church of rome in k. james his time , one was bishop abbot in his answer to bishop . t. g. takes this to be archbishop abbot , and excepts against him as an abettor of the puritan party , and tells from dr. heylin , that on that account it was thought necessary to suspend him from his metropolitical visitation ; dr. st. makes sport with his suspending a bishop of salisbury from metropolitical jurisdiction , and tells what strange things those of the church of rome can do with five words ; and upbraids t. g. with ignorance of our church ; and in truth , is too tragical upon such a slight occasion . now t. g. proves , that it was only a mistake of the person , and not of his quality , although dr. st. saith , that he was never till now suspected for a puritan . p. d. are you sure of that ? r. p. yes , t. g. saith so , more than once . p. d. however it is good to be sure . these are dr. st.'s words . the two first he excepts against , are the two archbishops , whitgift and abbot as puritanically inclined ; but as it unhappily falls out , one of them was never mentioned by me , and the other never till now suspected for a puritan . i pray advise t. g. to read a little more carefully , before he confutes : is it not plain , that he means , archbishop abbot was never mentioned by him , and archbishop whitgift was never till now suspected for a puritan ? it could be no want of understanding in t. g. to make him thus misconstrue his words . r. p. but he proves , he was puritanically inclined , and takes off his testimony . p. d. how doth he prove that ? r. p. from dr. heylin , whose histories serve us to many a good purpose ; for he saith , he was a calvinian though a moderate one ; that he was an enemy to bishop laud in the vniversity , that he commends mr. perkins , and wrote his last book of grace and perseverance of the saints . p. d. very wonderful proofs ! as though many of the stiffest defenders of our church against the puritan party , had not been inclining to calvinism ( as it is called ) in the point of predestination ; especially in that moderate way , wherein r. abbot asserted it ! as though it were not possible , for men to be zealous for our liturgie and ceremonies , if they held the doctrine of election and perseverance ! but we do not want those of the highest order of our church at this day , who are eminent for learning , and piety , and zeal for the church ; who would take it very ill from t. g. upon the account of those opinions , to be thought enemies to the church of england ; as no doubt the puritans were . but t. g. runs on with this perpetual mistake ; when his own author dr. heylin hath told him whom he means by puritans , viz. the nonconformists ; for speaking of dr. buckeridge bishop lauds tutor , he saith , that he opposed the papists on one hand , and on the other the puritans or non-conformists . these are very pittiful shifts to overthrow bishop abbots testimony , when dr. heylin himself saith of him , he was so moderate a calvinian that he incurred the high displeasure of the supralapsarians , who had till then carried all before them . but what saith t. g. to those whom he yields not to have been puritanically inclined , and yet charged the church of rome with idolatry ? r. p. he saith , they do not impugn the doctrine it self of the church of rome , or the practice conformable to that doctrine , but such things as they conceived to be great abuses in the practice of it . p. d. that will be best tryed by particulars ; the first of these is no less a person than k. james , who calls the worship of images , damnable idolatry ; and dr. st. shews that k. james takes off their distinctions and evasions ; and saith , let them therefore that maintain this doctrine answer it to christ at the latter day when he shall accuse them of idolatry . and then i doubt if he will be paid with such sophistical distinctions . is all this , saith d. st. nothing but to charge them with such practices which they detest ? doth he not mention their doctrine , and their distinctions ? did not k. james understand what he said , and what they did ? what saith t. g. to this ? r. p. not a word that i can find . p. d. let us then see what he doth take notice of . r. p. a very notable thing i assure you . he saith , they only found fault with some abuses committed in our church , and did not think men by vertue of the terms of her communion forced either to hypocrisie or idolatry : as dr. st. doth : so that it is not the doctrine of the church of rome , if truly stated out of the decrees of her councils , or practice agreeable to that doctrine , which these divines impeach as idolatrous , but the opinions of some school-divines , or abuses they conceived to be committed in the practice of it . and for this he instanceth in the decree of the council of nice about the worship of images . p. d. who doth not know t. g. to be a man of art ? and to understand the way of fencing in the schools as well as another ? was it not skilfully done in this place to run to the point of images , when we had been so lately upon the idolatry in adoration of the host , as it is declared in our rubrick ? for the constitution of the church of rome is plain to all persons about adoration of the host , at the elevation of it , and carrying it about ; but in the matter of images they endeavour to palliate and disguise their allowed practices as much as may be . i answer therefore on behalf of dr. st. ( . ) that when he speaks of what men are obliged to do by vertue of communion with the church of rome , he speaks of the things strictly required by the rules of that church ; and since our church declares the mass idolatrous , he doth not in the least recede from the sense of our church in the disjunction he useth , either of hypocrisie , or idolatry ; and i have some reason to believe that was the thing he aimed at chiefly , when he spoke of the terms of communion ; because he had often heard of some persons who live in the communion of that church , who being not obliged to make the same professions which ecclesiastical persons are , do content themselves with doing the same external acts which others do ; but with a very different intention ; who look upon transubstantiation , and many other doctrines as foolish and ridiculous , and yet think they may joyn with those who do believe them in all external acts of worship rather than break the peace of the church they live in ; such persons would say they never worshipped the host , and therefore excuse themselves from idolatry , but dr. st. saith , they cannot then excuse themselves from hypocrisie , because they seem to give the same worship which the other doth . ( . ) as to the idolatry committed in the worship of images , we shall consider that in its proper place ; but yet by vertue of communion with the church of rome , all persons are ( . ) bound to declare the worship of images lawful as it is practised in that church . ( . ) to worship images upon occasion o●fered , as in processions , &c. ( . ) to worship the cross as it represents christ with that worship which is proper to his person . that which concerns us now , is to give an account of the judgement of these persons , how far they suppose the church of rome to be guilty of the idolatry committed in it . as to k. james we have seen already how far t. g. is from answering his testimony ; the next is is. casaubon , and he saith , the church of england did affirm the practises of the church of rome to be joyned with great impiety . so that he speaks the sense of our church and not barely his own ; and surely when he wrote by k. james his direction and order , and had so great intimacy with bishop andrews and other learned men of our church , he would declare nothing to be her sense which was contrary to it . and as to his own private opinion , i could tell t. g. somewhat more , viz. that when he was violently set upon by all the wit and industry of card. perron , and disobliged by some persons of his own communion at paris , he set himself seriously to consider the terms of communion in that church , and whether he might with a safe conscience embrace it ; and i have seen in his own hand-writing the reasons which hindred him from it ; and the first of them , was the fear of idolatry , which he saw practised in the worship of images and saints . which is as full a proof as may be , that he did not think any person could embrace the communion of that church without hypocrisie or idolatry as to the worship of images and saints . the third is bishop andrews , who not only charges the church of rome with idolatry ; but he saith , that in their breviaries , hours , and rosaries , they pray directly , absolutely and finally to saints ; and not meerly to the saints to pray to god for them , but give what they pray for themselves : to this t. g. saith , they profess they do no such thing ; as though we were enquiring what they professed , and not what bishop andrews charged them with . if idolatry according to bishop andrews be required in the authorized offices of devotion in their church , how can the members of it be excused either from hyocrisie or idolatry ? the fourth is dr. field , who chargeth the invocation of saints with such superstition and idolatry as cannot be excused : the fifth dr. jackson who saith , the papists give divine honour to images . the sixth archbishop laud , who not only affirms the modern church of rome to be too like to paganism in the adoration of images , but condemns the praying to angels as the idolatry condemned by the council of laodicea ; as dr. st. shewed from his m s. notes upon bellarmine . to these dr. st. added in his general preface , the testimonies of archbishop bancroft , bishop montague , pet. heylin , and mr. thorndike ; which three last were the very persons t. g. did appeal to ; and the last of them did declare that the practice of idolatry was such in the roman church , that no good christian dare trust his soul in the communion of it ; which is all one as to say , they must be guilty of hypocrisie or idolatry . r. p. but t. g. saith , they only reprove some practices as idolatrous , or at least in danger to be such , but dr. st. acknowledges that they excuse the church of rome from idolatry although not all who live in the communion of it . p. d. doth he indeed say so ? or is this another piece of t. g.'s fineness ? his words are these : and although it may be only an excess of charity in some few learned persons to excuse that church from idolatry , although not all who live in the communion of it : and then produces the seventeen testimonies to shew he did not differ from the sense of the church of england , or the eminent defenders of it ever since the reformation ; and do you think that among his testimonies , he would produce any , whom he thought to free the church of rome from idolatry ? no certainly ; but i suppose that clause referred to mr. thorndike and some few others ; and as to mr. thorndike he afterwards produced the passage before mentioned out of some papers written by him a little before his death . what saith t. g. to that ? r. p. not a word more , but i find he makes use of mr. thorndikes name on all occasions , as if he favoured our side against the church of england and dr. st. and the man who manageth the dialogue against him is brought in as one of mr. thorndikes principles . i pray tell me was not he a man in his heart of our church , and only lived in the external communion of yours ? p. d. d. st. hath given a just character of him , when he calls him a man of excellent learning and great piety ; and since so ill use is made of his name in these disputes and such dishonour done to his memory , i shall but do him right , to let you understand what his judgement was of the church of rome : which he delivered in a paper to a lady a little before his death , from whom it came immediately to my hands , and is the same paper dr. st. doth refer to . . the truth of the christian religion , and of the scripture is presupposed to the being of a church , and therefore cannot depend upon the authority of it . . the church of rome maintains the decrees of the present church to be infallible , which is false , and yet concerns the salvation of all that believe it , therefore no man can submit to the authority of it . . the church of rome in s. jeroms time , did not make void the baptism of those sects which did not baptise in the name of the father , the son , and the holy ghost , but that baptism is void and true baptism necessary to salvation . therefore the church of rome may err in matters of salvation . . the church of rome may err in schism , following the wrong cause . if you except only things necessary to salvation to be believed . this shews that infallibility only in things necessary to salvation is not enough . it is destructive to salvation to follow the wrong cause in schism . instance . the schism with the greek church for appeals to rome . for there is evident tradition to the contrary . . the church of rome enjoyns apocryphal scriptures to be esteemed canonical scriptures . but this injunction is contrary to tradition and truth , and concerns the salvation of all that receive it . . the church of rome in s. jeroms time did not receive the epistle to the hebrews for canonical scripture , as now it doth , and as in truth it is , therefore the church of rome may err in declaring the authority of scripture . . the church of rome doth err in teaching that attrition is turned into contrition by submitting to the power of the keys ; but this errour is destructive to the salvation of all that believe it . therefore it may err in matters necessary to salvation . that it is an errour . because of the condition of remission of sins , which is before the being of a church ; and therefore cannot depend on the authority of the church . . the church of rome injoyneth to believe transubstantiation , and to profess that which is false . for there is scripture and tradition for the presence of the body and blood of christ in the eucharist ; but neither scripture , nor tradition for transubstantiation , viz. for abolishing the elements , but the church of rome injoyns to believe it . therefore it enjoyns to believe that for which there is neither tradition nor scripture . witness the fathers that own the elements after consecration . . the council of trent enjoyneth to believe that christ instituted a new passeover to be sacrificed as well as represented , commemorated , and offered in the eucharist , de sacrific . missae , cap. . which is false , for the sacrifice of christs cross is commemorated , represented and offered as ready to be slain in and by the eucharist ; but not slain , and therefore not sacrificed in it and by celebrating it . and therefore when it is said there , c. . quod in missa christus incruentè immolatur , if it be meant properly , it is a contradiction ; for that which hath blood is not sacrificed but by shedding the blood of it ; if figuratively , it signifies no more than that which i have said , that it is represented , commemorated and offered as slain . and therefore all parts agreeing to this , the church of rome requiring more is guilty of the schism , that comes by refusing it . for the propitiation of the sacrifice of the eucharist is the propitiation of christs cross purchased for them that are qualifi'd . . the council of trent commends the mass without the communion , cap. . wherein it erreth , for the communion being the restoring of the covenant of baptism after sin ▪ the want of it without the desire of it is to be lamented not commended , as destructive of the means of salvation . . there is neither scripture nor tradition for praying to saints departed , or any evidence that they hear our prayers . therefore it evidences a carnal hope that god will abate of the covenant of our baptism , which is the condition of our salvation , for their sakes . . to pray to them for those things which only god can give ( as all papists do ) is by the proper sense of their words downright idolatry . if they say their meaning is by a figure only to desire them to procure their requests of god ; how dare any christian trust his soul with that church , which teaches that which must needs be idolatry in all that understand not the figure ? . there is neither scripture nor tradition for worshipping the cross , the images , and reliques of saints , therefore it evidences the same carnal hope , that god will abate of his gospel for such bribes . which is the will-worship of masses , pilgrimages , and indulgences to that purpose . . neither scripture nor tradition is there for the removing any soul out of purgatory unto the beatifical vision before the day of judgement , therefore the same carnal hope is seen in the will-worship of masses , indulgences , pilgrimages and the like for that purpose : and that destructive to the salvation of all that believe that the guilt of their sins is taken away by submitting to the keys before they be contrite ; and the temporal penalty remaining in purgatory paid by these will-worships . . both scripture and tradition condemn the deposing of princes , and acquitting their subjects of their allegiance , and enjoyning them to take arms for them whom the pope substitutes . and this doctrine is not only false , but in my opinion properly heresie , yet practised by so many popes . the church may be divided , that salvation may be had on both sides . instances . the schisms of the popes . the schism of acacius . the schism between the greeks and the latins . i hold the schism for the reformation to be of this kind . but i do not allow salvation to any that shall change having these reasons before him ; though i allow the reformation not to be perfect in some points of less moment , as prayer for the dead , and others . remember alwayes that the popish church of england can never be canonically governed being immediately under the pope . . there is both scripture and tradition for the scriptures and service in a known tongue ; and for the eucharist in both kinds . how then can any christian trust his soul with that church , which hath the conscience to bar him of such helps provided by god ? these are all his own words without addition or alteration . and what think you now of mr. thorndike ? was this man a secret friend to the church of rome do you think ? who saith so plainly , that a man cannot embrace the communion of that church without hazard of his salvation . r. p. i did little think by the use t. g. on all occasions makes of him , that he had been a man of such principles . but i think t. g. had as good have let him alone , as have given occasion for producing such testimonies of the thoughts which a man of his learning and fame had , concerning the church of rome . however , you see , he holds the presence of the body and blood of christ in the eucharist , and can you reconcile this , to what you asserted to be the doctrine of the church of england ? p. d. yes very well . if you compare what he saith here , with what he declares more at large in his book , wherein you may read these remarkable words to this purpose . if it can any way be shewed that the church did ever pray that the flesh and blood might be substituted instead of the elements under the accidents of them , then i am content that this be accounted henceforth the sacramental presence of them in the eucharist . but if the church only pray , that the spirit of god , coming down upon the elements , may make them the body and blood of christ , so that they which receive them may be filled with the grace of his spirit ; then is it not the sense of the catholick church that can oblige any man to believe the abolishing of the elements in their bodily substance ; because supposing that they remain , they may nevertheless come to be the instrument of gods spirit to convey the operation thereof to them that are disposed to receive it , no otherwise than his flesh and blood conveyed the efficacy thereof upon earth : and that i suppose is reason enough to call it the body and blood of christ sacramentally , that is to say as in the sacrament of the eucharist . and in two or three places more he speaks to the same purpose . r. p. hold sir i beseech you ; you have said enough ; you will fall back again to transubstantiation in spite of my heart . p. d. what ? when i only answer a question you asked me ? r. p. enough of mr. thorndike ; unless he were more our friend , than i find he was . i pray what say you to archbishop whitgift ? p. d. hath t. g. perswaded you that he is turned puritan , above seventy years after his death , who never was suspected for it while he was living , nor since till the transforming dayes of t. g. ? r. p. you may jeer as you please , but t. g. tells a notable story of the lambeth articles , and how q. elizabeths black husband was like to have been divorced from her upon them , and how k. james would not receive them into the articles of the church . and all this , as well as many other good things he hath out of one pet. heylin . is the man alive i pray , that we may give him our due thanks for the service he hath done us upon many occasions ? for we have written whole books against the reformation , out of his history of it ; and i find t. g. relyes as much upon him as other good catholicks do on cochlaeus , and surius ; or as he doth at other times on the patronus bonae fidei . p. d. dr. heylin was a man of very good parts and learning , and who did write history pleasantly enough ; but in some things he was too much a party to be an historian , and being deeply concerned in some quarrels himself , all his historical writings about our church do plainly discover which side he espoused : which to me doth not seem to agree with the impartiality of an historian . and if he could but throw dirt on that which he accounted the puritan party , from the beginning of the reformation , he mattered not though the whole reformation suffered by it . but for all this he was far from being a friend either to the church or court of rome ; and next to puritanism , i believe he hated popery most ; so that if he had been alive , and you had gone to thank him for the service he had done you , in all probability you had provoked him to have written as sharply against you as ever he wrote against the puritans but what is all this to archbishop whitgifts being suspected for a puritan ? dares pet. heylin suggest any such thing ? no , he knew him too well : and saith , that by his contrivance the puritan faction was so muzled that they were not able to bark in a long time after . had he then any suspicion of his being puritanically inclined ? and as to the lambeth articles , they only prove that he held those opinions contained in them , and recommended them to the vniversity to suppress the disputes which had been there raised concerning them . and what then ? doth this render him suspected for a puritan at that time ? when many of the greatest anti-puritans were zealous defenders of those opinions . in all q. elizabeth's time and after , the name of puritans , signified the opposers of our government , and the service and orders of our church ; and some have undertaken to name the person who first applyed this name to the asserters of these doctrinal points , towards the latter end of k. james . this is certain , ( which is most material to our purpose ) that when k. charles i. published his declaration to prevent unnecessary disputations about these points , he saith , that they did all agree in the true usual literal meaning of the said articles of our church , and that even in those curious points in which the present differences lye , men of all sorts take the articles of the church of england to be for them , which is an argument again , none of them intend any desertion of the articles established . and which is a certain argument that even at that time no man was charged with disaffection to the church of england meerly on the account of these doctrinal points . r. p. but what was it which archbishop whitgift saith , for t. g. saith , even that will involve him more in the suspicion of puritanism . p. d. his words are these , i do as much mislike the distinction of the papists and the intent of it , as any man doth , neither do i go about to excuse them , from wicked and ( without repentance , and gods singular mercy , ) damnable idolatry . this is enough to dr. st.'s purpose ; and afterwards he saith , he placeth the papists among wicked and damnable idolaters . is not this home do you think ? r. p. but doth not he say , that one kind of idolatry is , when the true god is worshipped by other means and wayes than he hath prescribed or would be worshipped ? and according to dr. st. this is the fundamental principle of those who separate from the church of england , that nothing is lawful in the worship of god , but what he hath expresly commanded : therefore according to dr. st. himself , archbishop whitgift was a puritan . p. d. it is notably argued , i confess ; and thence it follows , if archbishop whitgift had understood the force of his own principle , he must have separated from the church of england . but is it not plain to the common sense of any man that archbishop whitgift writing on behalf of our ceremonies , and against this very principle in t. g. , his words could not bear that meaning , and therefore dr. st. had great reason to say , that his meaning in those words was , against his express command ; as appears by the application of them ? so that either you must make archbishop whitgift so weak a man as to overthrow the design of his whole book , or this must be his meaning which dr. st. assigns . r. p. but dr. st. himself makes the charging papists to be idolaters , a distinctive sign of puritanism . p. d. are you in earnest ? i pray , when and where ? for then i am sure he contradicts himself , for his design is to prove just the contrary . name me the page , i beseech you , that i may judge of it . r. p. why doth he not say , that it is the fundamental principle of puritanism , that nothing is lawful in the worship of god , but what he hath expresly commanded ? p. d. and what then ? r. p. then — hold a little — then — it will not do . p. d. i think not truly . if this be the fundamental principle of puritans , that nothing is lawful in the worship of god but what is commanded , then to charge the church of rome with idolatry is a distinctive sign of puritanism . how many cords are necessary to tye these two together ? ( . ) can no one charge the papists with idolatry , but by vertue of this principle ? i do hold , whatever god hath not forbidden , to be lawful in his worship ; but may not i at the same time , hold some kind of prohibited worship to be idolatry ? i can hardly imagine a man of t. g.'s subtilty could write thus . but that you have the book by you , and tell me so , i could not have believed it . ( . ) those who do hold this principle , do not presently make every thing unlawful to be an idol by vertue of it . for they do not deduce this unlawfulness from the prohibition of idolatry , but from the perfection and sufficiency of the scriptures as a rule of worship , and they say , we must not add thereto , and therefore no humane invention must be used in the worship of god. now judge you whether according to this principle there can be nothing unlawful , but it must be an idol ? r. p. this was an oversight i suppose in him . let it pass . but what makes d. st. vary so much from his old principle in his irenicum , wherein he asserted , that nothing is lawful in the immediate worship of god , but what is commanded , this must come either from a greater light of the spirit , or from the weighty considerations mentioned by the patronus bonae fidei , when , he saith , quicquid cl. stilling-fleet delinitus & occaecatus opimitate & obesitate suorum sacerdotiorum , &c. p. d. for the malicious suggestions of so wretched a calumniator , as the patronus bonae fidei appears to be throughout that book , they are not worth taking notice of by any one that doth not search for dunghils . it is dr. st.'s honour to be reproached by a man who hath made it his business to reproach the best church in christendome , and to undermine all churches , above thirty years ; and yet the ungrateful creature hath in some measure lived upon the revenues of that church himself , which he hath so shamefully reviled ; being in great part supported by the bounty of a very worthy and learned church-man who is nearly related to him . but as to the contradiction charged on dr. st. i begin to suspect t. g. more than ever i did . for doth not dr. st. in that place distinguish between immediate acts and parts of worship , and circumstances belonging to those acts , even in the very words alledged by t. g. ? and doth not he say expresly , that he doth not speak of these , but of the former ? and is not the very same distinction used by bishop andrews , bishop sanderson , and the most zealous defenders of the rites of our church ? why then must he be supposed to have changed his mind as to this principle , when he said no more at that time , than what the most genuine sons of our church have asserted , among whom i do not question bishop andrews and bishop sanderson will be allowed to pass . and they distinguish after the same manner , between the necessary parts of worship , for which they suppose a command necessary , as well as dr. st. : and the accidental and mutable circumstances attending the same for order , comeliness , and edifications sake , which are lawful if not contrary to gods command . and doth not dr. st. say the very same thing ? viz. that in matters of meer decency and order in the church of god , it is enough to make things lawful if they are not forbidden . let us now compare this saying with what he calls the fundamental principle of separation ; that nothing is lawful in the worship of god , but what he hath expresly commanded : and can any thing be more contradictory to this , than what dr. st. layes down as a principle in that very page of his irenicum ? that an express positive command is not necessary to make a thing lawful , but a non-prohibition by a law is sufficient for that . where then lay t. g.'s understanding or ingenuity , when he mentions such a great change in the dr. as to this principle , when he owned the very same principle , even in that book , and that very page , he quotes to the contrary ? t. g. doth presume good catholick readers will take his word without looking farther : and i scarce ever knew a writer who stands more in need of the good opinion of his reader in this kind , than t. g. doth . as i shall make it fully appear , if you hold on this discourse with me ; for i have taken some pains to consider t. g.'s manner of dealing with his adversary . but this is too gross a way of imposing upon the credulity of readers : yet this is their common method of dealing with dr. st. when they intend to write against him ; then , have you dr. st. 's irenicum ? hoping to find matter there to expose him to the hatred of the bishops , and to represent him as unfit to defend the church of england . if this takes not , then they pick sentences and half-sentences from the series of the discourse , and laying these together , cry , look ye here , is this a man fit to defend your church , that so contradicts himself thus , and thus ? when any common understanding by comparing the places , will find them either falsely represented , or easily reconciled . in truth sir , i think you have shewed as little learning , or skill , or ingenuity in answering him , as any one adversary that ever appeared against your church : and especially , when t. g. goes about to prove that he contradicts himself , or the sense of the church of england . r. p. but i pray tell me , if this charge of idolatry were agreeable to the sense of the church of england , why the articles of the church do only reject the romish doctrine concerning worshipping and adoration of images , not as idolatry , but as a fond thing vainly invented and grounded upon no warranty of scripture , but rather repugnant to the word of god ? for , i perceive this sticks much with t. g. and from hence he concludes dr. st. to contradict the sense of it , who is the champion of the church of england . p. d. i perceive t. g. kept this for a parting blow , after which he thought fit to breath a while , having spent so many spirits in this encounter ; but methinks , his arm grows feeble , and although his fury be as great as ever , yet his strength is decayed . and in my mind it doth not become a man of his chivalry , so often to leave his lance , and to run with open mouth upon his adversary , and to bite till his teeth meet . for what mean the unhandsome reflections he makes on all occasions , upon his being the champion of the church of england ; and the church of englands having cause to be ashamed of such a champion ; and of his putting him in mind of his duty as the champion of the church , not to betray the church he pretends to defend ? where doth he ever assume any such title to himself ? or ever entred the lists , but on the account of obedience , or upon great provocation ? the name of champion savours too much of vanity and ostentation , whereas he only shewed how easily the cause could be defended , when his superiours first commanded such a stripling , as he then was , to undertake the defence of it . but i shall set aside these reflections , and come to the point of our articles ; and therein consider , . what t. g. objects . . what dr. st. answered . . which way the sense of the articles is to be interpreted . t. g. looks upon it as a notable observation , that the compilers of the articles ( in which is contained the doctrine of the church of england ) sufficiently insinuate that they could find no such command forbidding the worship of images , when they rejected the adoration of images , not as idolatry , but only as a fond thing vainly invented , nor as repugnant to the plain words of scripture , but as rather repugnant to the word of god ; which qualification of theirs gives us plainly to understand , that they had done their endeavours to find such a command , but could meet with none . to which dr. st. gives this answer , that the force of all he saith lyes upon the words of the english translation , whereas if he had looked on the latin , wherein they give account of their doctrine to foreign churches , this criticism had been lost , the words being immo verbo dei contradicit ; whereby it appears that rather is not used as a term of diminution , but of a more vehement affirmation . and what saith t. g. i pray to this ? r. p. t. g. repeats his own words at large , and then blames the compilers of the articles for want of grammar , if they intend the word rather to affect the words that follow . p. d. but what is all this to the latin articles which dr. st. appealed to , for explication of the english ? and for the love of grammar , let t. g. tell us whether there be not a more vehement affirmation in those words , immo verbo dei contradicit . either t. g. should never have mentioned this more , or have said something more to the purpose . for doth he think our bishops and clergy were not careful that their true sense were set forth in the latin articles ? and their sense being so peremptory herein and contrary to t.g. is there not all the reason in the world to explain the english articles by the latin , since we are sure they had not two meanings ? this is so plain , i am ashamed to say a word more to it . r. p. but t. g. is very pleasant in describing the arguments dr. st. brings to prove the articles to make the worship of images idolatry , because it is called adoration of images , and said to be the romish doctrine about adoration . but after the cat hath plaid with the mouse as long as he thinks fit , leaping and frisking with him in his claws , at last he falls on him with his teeth , and hardly leaves a bone behind him . after he hath muster'd his arguments , and drawn them out in rank and file , and made one charge upon another , for the pleasure of the reader , he then gives him a plain and solid answer ; viz. by the words romish doctrine concerning adoration of images may be understood either the doctrine taught in her schools , which being but the opinions of particular persons , no man is bound to follow , or the doctrine taught in her councils which all those of her communion are bound to submit to . if the doctrine which the church of england chargeth be that which is taught by some of her school divines ( which he takes to be her true meaning ) this is also denyed ( at least by those very divines who teach it ) to be idolatry . if by the romish doctrine be meant the doctrine of councils owned by the church of rome concerning worshipping and adoration of images , then herein she is vindicated from idolatry by eminent divines that have been esteemed true and genuine sons of the church of england . p. d. and doth this mighty effort come to this at last ? what pity it is t. g. had no better a cause , he sets this off so prettily ? and dazels the eyes of his beholders with the dust he raises , so that those who do not narrowly look into his feats of activity , would imagine him still standing , when he is only endeavouring to recover a fall . for . by adoration of images , our church doth not mean that which their school divines call adoration of images , as they distinguish it from veneration of them , but it means all that religious worship which by the allowed doctrine and practice of the roman church is given to images . and this is just the case of the council of francford ( concerning which i hear t. g. saith not one word in his last book , and i commend him for it ) the western bishops condemn adoration of images : very true , saith t. g. and his brethren , but all this was a bare mistake of the nicene council , which never approved adoration of images , but only an inferiour worship ; but dr. st. hath shewed that the francford council knew of this distinction well enough , and notwithstanding their denying it , the western church did not judge that the worship which they gave to images was really adoration whether they called it so or not . just so it is with the church of england , in reference to the church of rome ; this distinguishes adoration from inferiour worship , but our church owns no such distinction , and calls that religious worship which they give to images , adoration ; and supposing it were really so , dr. st. saith , their own divines yield it to be idolatry ; i. e. the church of england calls their worship of images adoration , or giving divine worship to a creature , but their divines do yield this is idolatry , and therefore the church of england doth charge the church of rome with idolatry . but how subtilly had t. g. altered the whole force of the argument ? by taking adoration not in the sense of our church , but of their school-divines , and then telling us , that even those school-divines who teach adoration of images deny it to be idolatry . and whoever expected they should confess themselves guilty ? but what is this , to the sense of the church of england ? where doth it allow such a distinction of divine worship into that which is superiour and inferiour , or that which is proper to god and that which is not ? . by romish doctrine the church of england doth not mean the doctrine of the school-divines ; but the doctrine received and allowed in that church from whence the worship of images is required and practised . such kind of worship i mean , as is justified and defended in common among them , without their school-distinctions ; such worship as was required here in the recantation of the lollards as dr. st. observes , i do swear to god and all his seynts upon this holy gospel , that fro this day forward i shall worship images with praying and offering unto them in the worship of the seynts that they be made after ; such worship as was required here by the constitutions of arundel , a. d. . with processions , genuflections , thurifications , deosculations , oblations , burnings of lights , and pilgrimages which are called acts of adoration ; and this constitution was a part of the canon law of england , which all persons were then bound to observe , or else might be proceeded against as lollards . and this is that which dr. st. insists upon , was the thing condemned by the articles of our church , viz. the worship of images which was required and practised here in england . and what reason have we to run to school-divines for the sense of matters of daily practice , as the worship of images was before the reformation ? and so i conclude , if this be all t. g. in so long time hath had to say about this matter , ( viz. above four years since dr. st.'s general preface was published ) he hath very unreasonably charged him with dissenting from the church of england in this charge of idolatry . f. c. i hope you have done for this time ; and if you catch me again losing so much time in hearing fending and proving about the church of england ; i will give you leave to call me fanatick . if you have any thing more of this kind , talk it out your selves if you please . i expected to have had some comfortable talk with my old friend about liberty of conscience ; and how many precious hours have you lost about the church of england ? this will never do our business . if you please , my good friend , you and i will meet in private at such a place to morrow . p. d. nay sir , let me not be excluded your company , since i am so accidentally faln into it ; and have but patience to hear us talk out these matters , since we have begun them . for i hear your friends friend t. g. hath said some things wherein your cause is concerned . f. c. i do intend for the auction again to morrow , and if i can easily get the books i look for , i will bear you company ; otherwise go on with your discourse , and i will come to you when i have made my adventures . it is possible i may meet with some of them to night ; for i hear them at rutherford , and gillespee , and our divinity follows just after the scotch . which was well observed by the catalogue-maker , for the covenant bound us to reform according to the pattern of the church of scotland . r. p. you intend then to meet here again to morrow at three of clock , to pursue our conferences about these matters . i will not fail you ; and so adieu . the end of the first conference . the second conference , about the consequences of the charge of idolatry . p. d. how long have you been at the auction ? r. p. above an hour ; for i had a great desire to see how the books were sold at them . p. d. and i pray what do you observe concerning the buying of books here ? r. p. i find it a pretty humoursome thing : and sometimes men give greater rates for books , than they may buy them for in the shops ; and yet generally , books are sold dearer here , than in any part of europe . p. d. what reason can you give for that ? r. p. one is , that the scholars of england allow themselves greater liberty in learning than they do in foreign parts , where commonly only one kind of learning is in esteem in a place ; but here a man that intends a library , buys all sorts of books ; and that makes your traders in books bring over from all parts , and of all kinds , and when they have them in their hands , they make the buyers pay for their curiosity . in italy it is a rare thing to meet with a greek book in the shops ; in spain you see nothing almost besides prayer-books , novels , and school-divinity . at antwerp and lions , school-divinity and lives of the saints are most sold. at paris indeed there is greater variety . but we observe it abroad , that in the best catholick countreys , learning is in least esteem ; as in spain and italy . and where learning is more in vogue , as in france , you see how ready they are to quarrel with the pope ; and to fall into heats and controversies about religion . and therefore to deal freely with you , i am not at all pleased to see this eagerness of buying of books among you . for as long as learning holds up , we see little hopes of prevailing , though we and the fanaticks had liberty of conscience : since upon long experience we find ignorance and our devotion , to agree as well as mother and daughter . p. d. i am glad of any symptom that we are like to hold in our wits ; and i think your observation is true enough . i have only one thing to add to it : which is , that it was not luther , or zuinglius that contributed so much to the reformation , as erasmus ; especially among us in england . for , erasmus was the man who awakened mens understandings ; and brought them from the friers divinity to a relish of general learning ; he by his wit laughed down the imperious ignorance of the monks , and made them the scorn of christendom ; and by his learning he brought most of the latine fathers to light , and published them with excellent editions , and useful notes ; by which means men of parts set themselves to consider the ancient church from the writings of the fathers themselves , and not from the canonists and school-men . so that most learned and impartial men were prepared for the doctrines of the reformation before it brake forth . for it is a foolish thing to imagine that a quarrel between two monks at wittemberg should make such an alteration in the state of christendom . but things had been tending that way a good while before ; by the gradual restoration of learning in these western parts . the greeks coming into italy after the taking of constantinople , and bringing their books with them , laid the first foundation of it ; then some of the princes of italy advanced their own reputation by the encouragement they gave to it : from thence it spread into germany , and there reuchlin and his companions joyned hebrew with greek ; from thence it came into france and england . when men had by this means attained to some skill in languages , they thought it necessary to search the old and new testament in their original tongues , which they had heard of , but few had seen , not above one greek testament being to be found in all germany ; then erasmus prints it with his notes , which infinitely took among all pious and learned men , and as much enraged the monks and friers , and all the fast friends to their dulness and superstition . when men had from reading the scripture and fathers formed in their minds a true notion of the christian religion and of the government and practices of the ancient church , and compared that with what they saw in their own age , they wondred at the difference ; and were astonished to think how such an alteration should happen ; but then , they reflected on the barbarism of the foregoing ages , the gradual encroachments of the bishop of rome , the suiting of doctrines and practices to carry on a temporal interest , the complyance with the superstitious humours of people , the vast numbers of monks and friers , whose interest lay in the upholding these things ; and when they laid these things together , they did not wonder at the degeneracy they saw in the christian church . all the difficulty was , how to recover the church out of this state ; and this puzzled the wisest men among them ; some thought the ill humours were grown so natural to the body , that it would hazard the state of it to attempt a sudden purging them quite away ; and that a violent reformation would do more mischief than good , by popular tumults , by schism and sacriledge ; and although such persons saw the corruptions and wished them reformed , yet considering the hazard of a sudden change , they thought it best for particular persons to inform the world better , and so by degrees bring it about , than to make any violent disturbance in the church . while these things were considered of by wiser men , the pope goes on to abuse the people with the trade of indulgences , and his officers in germany were so impudent in this trade , that a bold monk at wittenberg defies them , and of a sudden lays open the cheat , and this discovery immediately spread like wild-fire ; and so they went on from one thing to another , till the people were enraged at being so long and so grosly abused and tyrannized over . but when reformation begins below , it is not to be expected that no disorders and heats should happen in the management of it ; which gave distastes to such persons as erasmus was , which made him like so ill the wittenberg reformation , and whatever was carried on by popular tumults . yet rosinus saith , that the duke of saxony before he would declare himself in favour of luther , asked erasmus his opinion concerning him , who gave him this answer , that luther touched upon two dangerous points , the monks bellies , and the popes crown ; that his doctrine was true and certain , but he did not approve the manner of his writing . but here in england , the reformation was begun by the consent of the king and the bishops , who yielded to the retrenchment of the popes exorbitant power , and the taking away some grosser abuses in henry 's . time ; but in edw. .'s time , and q. elizabeths , when it was settled on the principles it now stands , there was no such regard had to luther , or calvin , as to erasmus and melancthon , whose learning and moderation were in greater esteem here , than the fiery spirits of the other . from hence , things were carryed with greater temper , the church settled with a succession of bishops ; the liturgie reformed according to the ancient models ; some decent ceremonies retained , without the sollies and superstitions which were before practised : and to prevent the extravagancies of the people in the interpreting of scripture , the most excellent paraphrase of erasmus was translated into english and set up in churches ; and to this day , erasmus is in far greater esteem among the divines of our church , than either luther , or calvin . r. p. if this be true which you say , methinks your divines should have a care of broaching such things , which do subvert the foundation of all ecclesiastical authority among you , as t. g. told dr. st. the charge of idolatry doth . for by vertue of this charge , he saith , the church of england remains deprived of the lawful authority to use and exercise the power of orders ; and consequently the authority of governing , preaching , and adminstring the sacraments , which those of the church of england challenge to themselves , as derived from the church of rome , can be no true and lawful jurisdiction , but usurped and antichristian . this i assure you t. g. layes great weight upon in his late dialogues , and charges him with ignorance , and tergiversation , and other hard words about it . so that i have a mind to hear what you can say in his defence about this , before i touch upon the other consequences which he urgeth upon this charge of idolatry . p. d. with all my heart . there are two things wherein the force of t. g.'s argument lyes . ( . ) that which he calls his undeniable maxim of reason , viz. that no man can give to another that which he hath not himself . ( . ) that idolatry lays men under the apostles excommunication , and therefore are deprived of all lawful authority to use or exercise the power of orders . in answer to these , two things are already proved by dr. st. ( . ) that the sin of the givers doth not hinder the validity of ordination . ( . ) that the christian church hath allowed the lawful authority of giving and exercising the power of orders , in those who have been condemned for idolatry . which he proves more briefly in his preface , and at large in his last book from the case of the arian bishops . and now let any one judge whether t. g. had any cause to hector about this matter for so many pages together , as though he had either not understood , or not taken notice of the force of his argument . concerning his undeniable maxime of reason he observed , that it was the very argument used by the donatists to prove the nullity of baptism among hereticks : and that the answer given by the church was , that the instrument was not the giver , but the first institutor , and if the minister keep to the institution , the grace of the sacrament may be conveyed though he hath it not himself . this dr. st. thought very pertinent to shew , that where power and authority are conveyed by men only as instruments , the particular default of such persons , as heresie or idolatry , do not hinder the derivation of that power or authority to them . and this he proved to be the sense of the christian church in the ordinations of hereticks . it is true , he did not then speak to authority so much as to power ; nor to jurisdiction , as it is called by the school divines , so much as to the validity of ordination . but he proceeded upon a parity of reason in both cases ; and could not imagine that any persons would suppose the christian church would allow a validity of orders without lawful authority to use and exercise those orders . for in all the instances produced by him from the second council of nice , wherein undeniable examples were brought of ordinations of hereticks allowed by the ancient fathers and councils ( even those of nice , ephesus and chalcedon ) it was apparent that their authority to use and exercise their power of orders , was allowed as well as their ordinations : for he there shews that anatolius the president of the fourth council was ordained by dioscorus in the presence of eutyches ; that many of the bishops who sat in the sixth council were ordained by sergius , pyrrhus , paulus and petrus , who in that council were declared hereticks . and doth t. g. in earnest think this doth not prove they had lawful authority ? what becomes then of the authority of these councils ? nay , of the authority of the church it self , when tarasius there saith , as dr. st. produceth him , they had no other ordinations for fifty years together . doth this prove either dr. st.'s ignorance , or tergiversation ? is not this rather plain and convincing evidence that the christian church did allow , not barely the validity of ordination by hereticks , but the lawful authority to use and exercise the power of orders ? which he likewise proves by the greek ordinations allowed by the church of rome ; by which he doth not mean the validity of the bare orders , but all that power and authority which is consequent upon them . for can any man be so sensless to think , that the church of rome only allowed the sacrament of orders among the greeks , without any authority to excommunicate or absolve ? what mean then these horrible clamours by tg . of dr. st.'s ignorance , intolerable mistake , shameful errors , tergiversation , and what not ? because he speaks only to the validity of ordination , and not to the lawful authority of exercising the power of orders . whereas the contrary appears by that very preface about which these outcries are made by e. w. and t. g. what ingenuity is to be expected from these men , who deny that which they cannot but see ? r. p. but t. g. gives this for a taste , not only what candour and sincerity , but what skill in church-affairs you are to expect in the rest from dr. st. which surely he would never have done , if he had spoken to the point . p. d. you may think as you please of him ; i only tell you the matter of fact , and then do you judge where the candour and sincerity , where the skill in church affairs lies . r. p. but is it not an undeniable maxime , that no man can give to another , that which he hath not himself ? and therefore it lies open to the conscience of every man , that if the church of rome be guilty of heresy , much more , if guilty of idolatry ; it falls under the apostles excommunication , gal. . . and so remains deprived of the lawful authority to use and exercise the power of orders , and consequently the authority of governing , preaching , &c. this you see bids fair towards the subversion of all lawful authority in the church of england , if the church of rome were guilty of idolatry when the schism began ; because excommunicated persons being deprived of all lawful authority themselves can give none to others ; and if those others take any upon them , it must be usurped and unlawful . p. d. this is the terrible argument which t. g. produces again in triumph , as though nothing were able to stand before it : and yet in my mind t. g. himself hath mightily weakened it by yielding the validity of ordinations made by hereticks or idolaters . for , if no man can give that which he hath not ; how can those give power and authority who have none ? but the power of orders doth necessarily carry authority along with it ; for it is part of the form of orders in the roman church , accipe spiritum sanctum , quorum remiseritis , &c. so that a power to excommunicate and absolve is given by vertue of the very form of orders ; and your divines say , the form is not compleat without it . but then , i pray , resolve me these questions . is not a power to excommunicate and absolve a part of that jurisdiction which t. g. doth distinguish from the bare power of orders ? r. p. yes , without doubt . p. d. is not this power given by the very form of orders in your church ? r. p. yes , but what then ? p. d. doth not the council of trent say the character is imprinted upon saying those words , accipe spiritum sanctum , &c. r. p. what would you be at ? p. d. is the character of orders given by words that signifie nothing , and carry no effect along with them ? r. p. no certainly . p. d. then these words have their effect upon every man that hath the power of orders . r. p. and what then ? p. d. then every one who hath the power of orders , hath the power to excommunicate and absolve . r. p. be it so . p. d. but the power to excommunicate and absolve is a part of jurisdiction , therefore a power of orders carries a power of jurisdiction along with it ; and consequently valid ordination must suppose lawful authority to use and exercise the power of excommunication and absolution . r. p. in the name of t. g. i deny that . p. d. hold a little ; you are denying the conclusion . consider again what you deny . do you deny this power to be given in your orders ? r. p. no. p. d. do you deny this power to be part of jurisdiction ? r. p. no. p. d. then this power of jurisdiction is given wherever the orders are valid . r. p. this cannot be ; for t. g. complains over and over of dr. st.'s ignorance , wilful and intolerable mistake , unbecoming a writer of controversies , for not distinguishing between the validity of ordination , and the power of jurisdiction , which he would never have done , if one had carried the other along with it . p. d. do not tell me , what t.g. would , or would not have done . i tell you what he hath done ; and judge you now with what advantage to himself . r. p. but t. g. is again up with his undeniable maxim , that none can give to another what he hath not himself : and this he thinks will carry him through all . p. d. i tell you that very maxim overthrows the validity of ordinations as he applyes it . for if the validity of orders doth suppose authority to be conveyed ; and there can be no such authority given in the case of idolatry : then the power of orders is taken away as well as jurisdiction . besides , is not the power of giving orders a part of that lawful authority which belongs to bishops ? r. p. i do not understand you . p. d. can any man give orders without a power to do it ? r. p. no. p. d. is not that power a part of episcopal authority ? r. p. yes . p. d. how then can there be a power of giving orders without authority ? r. p. now you shew your ignorance . do not you know that there is an indelible character imprinted in the soul by the power of orders , which no act of the church can hinder a bishop from giving in the sacrament of orders , or a priest from receiving ; but jurisdiction is quite another thing , that is derived from the church , or rather from the pope who is the fountain of jurisdiction ; and this may be suspended or taken away . p. d. i cry you mercy sir. i was not bred up in your schools ; this may be currant doctrine with you ; but i assure you i find no footsteps of it either in scripture or fathers , and if i be not much mis-informed , some of your greatest divines are of my mind . i see all this out-cry of t. g.'s concerning dr. st. 's ignorance comes at last to this mysterie of the indelible character imprinted in the soul by the sacrament of orders , which makes ordination to be valid , but gives no authority or jurisdiction . i pray make me a little better acquainted with this character ; for at present , i can neither read , nor understand it . r. p. yes , yes , this you would be alwayes at , to make us explain our school-notions , for you to fleer and to mock at them . p.d. but this i perceive is very material to prevent intolerable errour and mistake ; and for all that you know i may come to be a writer of controversies , and then i would not be hooted at for my ignorance ; nor have the boyes point at me in the streets and say , there goes a man that doth not understand the character : which in my mind would sound as ill , as saying there goes one that cannot read his a. b. c. i beseech you sir , tell me what this indelible character is ; for to tell you truth , i have heard of it before , but never met with one who could tell what it was . r. p. yes , that is it ; you will not believe a thing , unless one can tell you what it is . why , it is a mark or a seal imprinted in the soul by the sacrament of orders that can never be blotted out ; and therefore ordination is valid , because if re-ordination were allowed , one character would be put upon another , and so the first would be blotted out . do not you understand it now ? p. d. i suppose altogether as well as you . is it a physical kind of thing , just like the strokes of a pen upon paper ; or rather as the graving of a carver upon stone , so artificially done that it can never be taken out while it continues whole ; or is it only a moral relative thing depending upon divine institution , and only on the account of distinction called a character ? r. p. without doubt it is an absolute thing , but whether to call it a habit , or a power ; whether it be a quality , of the first , or the second , or the third , or fourth kind , that our divines are not agreed upon : and some think it is a new kind of quality : nor whether it be imprinted on the essence or powers of the soul ; and if in the faculties , whether in the vnderstanding or will ; but it is enough for us to believe , that there is really such an absolute indelible character imprinted on the soul ; from whence that sacrament can never be reiterated which doth imprint a character as that of orders doth . p. d. i am just as wise by all this account as i was before . for the only reason of the point is , it must needs be so . r. p. yes , the church hath declared it in the council of trent , and that is instead of all reasons to us . p. d. but what is this to dr. st. ? must he be upbraided with ignorance , errour and tergiversation , because he doth not believe the indelible character on the authority of the council of trent ? r. p. no ; that is not the thing , but because he did not understand the difference between the power of order , and jurisdiction . p. d. are you sure of that ? if i do not forget , he hath this very distinction in that pestilent book called irenicum , which t. g. hits him in the teeth with ▪ on all occasions . r. p. but he did not , or would not understand it here . p. d. yes , he knew it well enough ; but he thought if he proved the validity of ordination , he proved the lawfulness of authority and jurisdiction ; because the giving orders is part of church authority , and authority is received in taking orders ; and the church never allowed one , but it allowed the other also . if you have any thing more to say about this matter , i am willing to hear you , but as yet i see no reason for t. g.'s clamours about such a mistake in dr. st. , for i think the mistake lay nearer home . r. p. but e. w. publickly reproved dr. st. for this mistake , and yet after that he goes on to confirm his former answer with new proofs and testimonies , that bishops ordained by idolaters were esteemed validly ordained , and doth not speak one word in answer to what was objected by t. g. viz. that the english bishops must want lawful authority to exercise the power of orders , if their first ordainers were idolaters . and e. w. calls it an intolerable mistake , and t. g. saith , he hath heard he was a main man esteemed for his learning . after repeating the words of e. w. at length t. g. very mildly adds , as if he were wholly insensible of the gross and intolerable errour e. w. taxed him with , he runs again into the same shameful mistake ; but saith t. g. are the power of giving orders and lawful authority to give them , so essentially linked to each other , that they cannot be separated ? may not a bishop or priest remaining so , be deprived of all lawful authority to exercise their functions , for having faln into heresie or idolatry ? and if they have none themselves , can they give it to others ? p. d. on whose side the intolerable mistake lyes , will be best seen , by examining the force of what t. g. saith ( as to e. w. the matter is not great ) which lyes i suppose in this , that those who do fall into idolatry or heresie may ordain validly ; for , saith he , from esti●s , no crime , or censure soever can hinder the validity of ordination by a bishop ; but he may be deprived of any lawful authority to do it , and therefore cannot convey this lawful authority to others ordained by him . from hence t. g. saith , no crime can hinder the validity of ordination ; but idolatry , he saith , doth ipso facto deprive bishops of the authority of exercising orders , or conveying jurisdiction ; and therefore though the ordination of the bishops of england may be valid , yet their jurisdiction cannot be lawful , and so the foundation of their authority is subverted by the charge of idolatry . i hope you will allow this to be the force of all that t. g. saith . r. p. yes ; now you have hit upon his right meaning . p. d. let us then consider more closely , on which side the mistake lay ; which will be discerned by this , whether we are to follow the modern schools , or the judgement of antiquity in this matter . for dr. st. spake according to the sense and practice of antiquity , and t. g. according to the modern notions and distinctions of their schools . it is true , their schoolmen have so distinguished the power of order and jurisdiction , that they make the one to depend upon an indelible unintelligible character , which no crime can hinder having its valid effect : but that jurisdiction , or the right of excommunication and absolution may be suspended or taken away . since the councils of florence and trent this doctrine of the indelible character given in orders , is not to be disputed among them ; and therefore they hold the character to remain wherever orders are received in the due form ; but then they say this character is capable of such restraints by the power of the church , that it remains like aristotles first matter , a dull and unactive thing till the church give a new form to it , and this they call the power of jurisdiction . but that all this , is new doctrine in the church and a late monkish invention , will appear by these considerations . ( . ) how long it was before this doctrine was received in the church by the confession of their own schoolmen . scotus , and biel , and cajetan , ( no inconsiderable men in the roman church ) do confess , that the doctrine of the character imprinted in the soul can neither be proved from scripture , nor fathers , but only from the authority of the church , and that not very ancient neither . and morinus takes notice that it was not so much as mentioned by p. lombard , or hugo de sancto victore : although they debate those very questions which would have required their expressing it , if they had known any thing of it . ( . ) how many of their schoolmen who do acknowledge the character of priesthood , yet make the power of orders to belong to jurisdiction , so albertus magnus and others cited by morinus ; but alex. alensis carries this point so far , that he saith , that because of the indelible character of priesthood , the power can never be taken from a priest , but only the execution of it ; but in a bishop there is no new character imprinted , and therefore in the degrading him , not only the execution , but the power of giving orders is taken away . and scotus saith , if a bishop be excommunicated , he loseth the power of giving orders ; if episcopacy be not a distinct order ; as you know many of the schoolmen hold . and morinus grants , that if episcopacy be not a distinct order , but a larger commission , the power of bishops may be so limited by the church , as not only to hinder them from a lawful authority , but from a power of acting ; so that what they do , carries no validity along with it . ( . ) how many before the dayes of the schoolmen were of opinion that the censures of the church did take away the power of orders ? gratian holds it most agreeable to the doctrine of the fathers , that a bishop degraded hath no power to give orders , although he hath to baptize ; only for s. augustines sake , he thinks , they may distinguish between the power and the execution of it . gul. parisiensis saith , that bishops deposed can confer no order , because the church hath the same power in taking away , which it hath in giving , and the intention of the church is to take away their power . if what t. g. asserts , had been alwayes the sense of the church , i desire him to resolve me these questions . . why pope lucius . did re-ordain those who had been ordained by octavianus the anti-pope ? . why vrban . declared nezelon or wecilo an excommunicate bishop of ments to have no power of giving orders ? and that upon t. g.'s own maxim , that which a man hath not , he cannot give to another ; because he was ordained by hereticks . . why the synod of quintilinberg under greg. . declared all ordinations to be null which were made by excommunicated bishops ? . why leo . in a synod voided all simoniacal ordinations ? . why stephanus . re-ordained those which were ordained by formosus ? . why hincmarus re-ordained those who had been ordained by ebbo , because he had been deposed ? . why stephanus . re-ordained those who had received orders from pope constantine ? . why the ordinations made by photius were declared null ? to name no more . if this had been always the sense of the christian church , that the power of orders is indelible , but not that of jurisdiction , i desire t. g. to give an answer to those questions ; which , i fear , will involve several heads of his church under that which he calls in dr. st. an intolerable mistake . did so many popes know no better this distinction between the validity of ordination , and the power of jurisdiction ? i am sorry to see t. g. so magisterial and confident , so insulting over dr. st. as betraying so much ignorance as doth not become a writer of controversies , when all the while , he doth only expose his own . but alas ! this is the current divinity of the modern schools ; and what obliges them to look into the opinions of former ages ? yet methinks a man had need to look about him , before he upbraids another with gross and intolerable errors , lest at the same time he prove the guilty person ; and then the charge falls back far more heavily on himself . ( . ) those who did hold the validity of ordinations did it chiefly on the account of the due form that was observed , whoever the persons were ; whether hereticks , or excommunicated-persons . for after all the heats and disputes which hapned in the church about this matter , the best way they found to resolve it was to observe the same course which the church had done in the baptism of hereticks : viz. to allow that baptism which was administred in due form , although those who administred it were hereticks . thence praepositivus , as he is quoted by morinus , saith , that a heretick hath power to administer all the sacraments as long as he observes the form of the church . and not only such a one as received episcopal orders in the church himself , but those who do derive a succession from such : as appears from tarasius in the second council of nice , where he saith , that five bishops of constantinople successively were hereticks , and yet their ordinations were allowed by the church : to the same purpose speak others , who are there produced by the same learned author . let these considerations be laid together and the result will be , . either dr. st. was not guilty of an intolerable error and mistake in this matter , or so many infallible heads of the church were guilty of the same . . it was believed for some ages in the roman church , that the censures of the church did take away the power of orders . . t. g.'s distinction as to the foundation of it in the indelible character of orders is a novel thing , and acknowledged by their own divines to have no foundation either in scripture or fathers . . the ground assigned by those who held the validity of ordination by hereticks , will hold for the authority of exercising the power of orders , if not actually taken away by the censures of the church . for every man hath the power which is given him , till it be taken from him ; every one that receives orders according to the form of the church hath a power given him to excommunicate and absolve , therefore every such person doth enjoy that power , till it be taken from him . for as i have already shewed , this is part of the form of orders in the roman church , accipe spiritum sanctum , quorum remiseritis , &c. and the council of trent determines the character to be imprinted upon the use of these words : therefore this power of jurisdiction is conveyed by the due form of orders , from whence it unavoidably follows that every one who hath had the due form of orders , hath had this power conveyed to him , and what power he hath , he must enjoy till it be taken away . r. p. but t. g. saith , that excommunication by the apostles sentence doth it , gal. . . p. d. this is indeed a piece of new doctrine , and a fruit of t. g.'s mother-wit , and which i dare say , he received neither from schoolmen nor fathers . for it involves such mischievous consequences in it as really overthrow all authority in the church . for by this supposition , in case any bishop falls into heresie or idolatry , he is ipso facto excommunicated by st. paul 's sentence , and consequently hath no authority to exercise the power of orders , and so all who derive their power from him have no lawful authority , or jurisdiction . i do wonder in all this time t. g. did no better reflect upon this assertion and the consequences of it , and rather to thank dr. st. that he took no more notice of it , than upbraid him with intolerable error and mistake . i will put a plain case to you to shew you the ill consequence of this assertion to the church of rome it self . dr. st. hath proved by undeniable evidence , that the arians were looked on and condemned as idolaters by the primitive church : and t. g. doth not deny it ; and what now if we find an arian among the bishops of rome , and from whom the succession is derived ? he must stand excommunicated by vertue of the apostles sentence , and therefore hath no authority to give orders , and so all the authority in the church of rome is lost . the case i mean is that of liberius ; who shewed himself as much an arian , as any of the arian bishops did , for he subscribed their confession of faith , and joyned in communion with them . st. hierom saith more than once , that he subscribed to heresie ; the pontifical book saith , he communicated with hereticks ; marcellinus and faustinus say , that he renounced the faith by his subscription ; yea more than this , hilary denounced an anathema against him and all that joyned with him : and baronius confesseth he did communicate with the arians , which is suffient to our purpose . then comes t. g. upon him , with st. paul 's sentence of excommunication ; and so he loseth all authority of exercising the power of orders , and consequently that authority which is challenged in the church of rome being derived from him is all lost . and now judge who subverts the foundation of ecclesiastical authority most ; t. g. or dr. st. : yet it falls out unhappily , that pet. damiani mentions these very ordinations of liberius the heretick ( so he calls him ) to shew how the church did allow ordinations made by hereticks . but this is not all ; for by all that i can find , if this principle of t. g. be allowed , no man can be sure there is any lawful ecclesiastical authority left in the world . for who can tell what secret idolaters or hereticks there might be among those bishops from whom that authority is derived ? this we are sure of , that the arian bishops possessed most of the eastern churches and made ordinations there : and the western bishops in the council of ariminum did certainly comply with them : as is now plain from marcellinus and faustinus , whose book was published by sirmondus at paris ; where sulpitius severus saith , more than four hundred western bishops were present ; who were all excommunicated by t. g.'s principle ; and what now becomes of all ecclesiastical authority ? but dr. st. hath shewed that the christian church was wiser , than to proceed upon t. g.'s principle , proving from authentick testimonies of antiquity , that the arian ordinations were allowed by the church , although the arians were condemned for idolaters . r. p. yes , t. g. saith , that dr. st. was resolved to go on in the same track still , and to prove that the act it self of ordination is not invalid in case of the idolatry of the givers , which was never denied by his adversary . p. d. how is it possible to satisfie men who are resolved to cavil ? doth not dr. st. by that instance of the arian bishops evidently prove , that the authority of giving orders was allowed by the christian church at that time , and that which he calls their jurisdiction as well as the power of orders ? because nothing more was required from the arian bishops but renouncing arianism and subscribing the nicene creed ; and thus for all that i can see by t. g.'s principle , they still remained under st. paul's excommunication , and so ecclesiastical authority is all gone with them . r. p. but do not you think that dr. st. had some secret design in all this really to subvert the authority of the church of england ? for t.g. lays together several notable things to that purpose to make it appear that he purposely declined defending the ecclesiastical authority of the church of england : i assure you it is a very politick discourse , and hath several deep fetches in it . first , he begins with his irenicum , and there he lays the foundation , that the government may be changed . . the book was reprinted since the bishops were reestablished by law. . he perswades the bishops in that book to reduce the form of church government to its primitive state and order , by restoring presbyteries under them , &c. . when this would not do , he charges the church of rome with idolatry , and makes this the sense of the church of england , to make her contribute to the subversion of her own authority . . when t. g. told him of the consequence of this , he passed it by , as if he saw it not , and trifled with his adversary about the validity of ordination . . when e. w. endeavoured to bring him to this point , he still declined it , and leaves episcopacy to shift for it self . and after all these t. g. thinks , he hath found out the mole that works under ground . p. d. a very great discovery i assure you ! and t. g. deserves a greater reward than any common mole-catchers do . but i never liked such politick informers ; for if people are more dull and quiet than they would have them , they make plots for them to keep up their reputation and interest . they must have always something to whisper in great mens ears , and to fill their heads with designs which were never thought of ; by which means they torment them with unreasonable suspicions , and tyrannize over them under a pretence of kindness . just thus doth t. g. do by the governours of our church : he would fain perswade them , that there is one dr. st. who hath undertaken to defend the church , but doth carry on a very secret and subtile design to ruine and destroy it . if they say , they do not believe it ; he seems to pity them for their incredulity and weakness , and endeavours to convince them , by a long train of his own inventions ; and if they be so easie to hearken to it , and to regard his insinuations , then he flatters and applauds them as the only friends to the church , when in the meantime he really laughs at them as a sort of weak men , who can be imposed upon by any man who pretends to be a friend , although even in that he doth them and the church the greater mischief . i cannot believe such kind of insinuations as these can prevail upon any one man of understanding in our church , against a person who hath at least endeavoured his utmost to defend it . but since t. g. talks so politickly about these maters , i will convince you by one argument of common prudence , that if dr. st. be a man of common sense , ( much more if he be so politick and designing as t. g. represents him ) all these suggestions must be both false and foolish . for that which all designing men aim at , is their own interest and advantage : now can any man that hath common sense left in him , imagine that dr. st. can aim at any greater advantage by ruining the church than by preserving it ? are not his circumstances more considerable in the church of england than ever he can hope they should be , if it were destroyed ? they who would perswade others that he carries on such a secret design , must suppose him to be next to an ideot , and such are not very dangerous politicians . but what is it then should make him act so much against his interest ? it can be nothing but folly or malice . but i do not find they have taxed him of any malice to the church of england , or of any occasion for it which the church hath given him , if he were disposed to it . why then should any be so senseless themselves , or suppose others to be so , as to go about to possess men with an opinion of an underground plot dr. st. is carrying on , not only to blow up the thames , but the rising fabrick of st. pauls too : i. e. to ruine and destroy himself ? if he be a fool , he is not to be feared ; if he be not , he is not to be mistrusted . r.p. but what say you to t. g.'s proofs ? do you observe the several mole-hills which he hath cast up ; and is not that a sign he works un-derground ? what say you to his irenicum in the first place ? p. d. i will tell you freely ; i believe there are many things in it , which if dr. st. were to write now , he would not have said ; for there are some things which shew his youth , and want of due consideration : others which he yielded too far in hopes of gaining the dissenting parties to the church of england ; but upon the whole matter i am fully satisfied the book was written with a design to serve the church of england : and the design of it , i take to be this ; that among us there was no necessity of entring upon nice and subtile disputes about a strict jus divinum of episcopacy , such as makes all other forms of government unlawful ; but it was sufficient for us , if it were proved to be the most ancient and agreeable to apostolical practice , and most accommodate to our laws and civil government ; and there could be no pretence against submitting to it , but the demonstrating its unlawfulness , which he knew was impossible to be done . and for what proposals he makes about tempering episcopacy , they were no other than what king charles . and mr. thorndike had made before him ; and doth t. g. think they designed to ruine the church of england ? and as long as he declared this to be the design of his book both at the beginning and conclusion of it , suppose he were mistaken in the means he took , must such a man be presently condemned as one that aimed at the ruine and destruction of the church ? r. p. but t. g. saith , he tendred it to consideration after episcopacy was resetled by law. p. d. that is as true as others of his suggestions . the book was printed while things were unsetled , and was intended to remove the violent prejudices of the dissenting party against episcopal government ; and i have heard , did considerable service that way , at least in a neighbour kingdom , and it happened to be reprinted afterwards , with the same title it had before . but what then ? do not booksellers look on books as their own , and do what they please with them , without the authors consent or approbation ? hath he ever preached or written any doctrine since , contrary to the sense of the church of england ? hath he made any party or faction to the disturbance of the peace of the church ? hath he not conformed to its rules , observed its offices , obeyed his superiours , and been ready to defend its cause against adversaries of all sorts ? and can malice it self after all this fasten such a calumny upon him , that he is a secret enemy to the church of england , and designs to ruine and destroy it ? i remember a poor englishman in amboyna being cruelly tormented by the dutch ; and finding nothing he could say would perswade his tormentors to release him ( and he said any thing that he thought would prevail with them ) at last he prayed god , that he might tell them probable lies . i would advise t. g. the next time he goes a mole-catching , to find out probable plots , otherwise he will lose all the reputation of an informer and discoverer . but i can hardly tell , whether his plot or his proofs were the worse ; for as there appears no likelihood in the plot , so there is no evidence in the proofs . there being nothing pretended since the irenicum , but this charge of idolatry , and that hath been sufficiently cleared already , by shewing that it doth not subvert the authority of the church of england . r. p. let us now , if you please , proceed to the other dangerous consequences of this charge , as they are mustered up by t. g. : one is , that it overthrows the article of the holy catholick church . p. d. that is something indeed ; what ! doth it take away an article of the creed ? nay then , it is time to look about us . but how i pray ? r. p. i will tell you how . if the church hath been guilty of idolatry , ( . ) then she hath required and enjoyned idolatry , for many hundreds of years parallel to the heathens . ( . ) then mahomet had more wisdom and power to carry on his design than the son of god , for his followers have been preserved from it by the grounds he laid above a thousand years . ( . ) then our fore-fathers had better been converted to judaism or turcism than to christianity as they were . p. d. i deny every one of these consequences . for our present dispute is only about the church of romes being guilty of idolatry ; and from thence ( . ) it doth not follow , that the whole christian church must require idolatry , if that doth ; unless t. g. had proved , that all other churches are equally involved in the same guilt , which he never attempted . ( . ) it doth not follow that mahomet was wiser than christ ; for if you compare the grounds laid for divine worship by christ and mahomet ; i say that christ did shew infinitely more wisdom in them , than so vile an impostor ; and it is a shame for any christian to suggest the contrary : but if t. g. speaks of power to carry on his design ; then it must suppose that mahomets power hath preserved the mahumetan religion so long free from idolatry , although christ hath not ; which must imply the greatness of mahomets power in heaven ; and so it borders upon blasphemy . ( . ) it doth not follow that our fore-fathers had better been converted to judaism or turcism than to christianity . for they had incomparably greater advantages towards their salvation than either turks or pagans ; and such circumstances might accompany their practice of idolatry , as might make it not to hinder their salvation . but i shall give you a full answer to this in the words of bishop sanderson , ( who is another competent witness , if any more were needful , that dr. st. doth not in the charge of idolatry contradict the sense of the church of england . ) we have much reason to conceive good hope of the salvation of many of our fore-fathers : who , led away with the common superstitions of those blind times , might yet by those general truths , which by the mercy of god were preserved among the foulest over-spreadings of popery , agreeable to the word of god ( though clogged with an addition of many superstitions and antichristian inventions withal ) be brought to true faith in the son of god ; unfeigned repentance from dead works ; and a sincere desire and endeavour of new and holy obedience . this was the religion that brought them to heaven , even faith and repentance , and obedience . this is the true , and the old and the catholick religion : and this is our religion , in which we hope to find salvation ; and if ever any of you that miscall your selves catholicks come to heaven , it is this religion must carry you thither . if together with this true religion of faith , repentance , and obedience , they embraced also your additions , as their blind guides then led them ; prayed to our lady , kneeled to an image , crept to a cross , flocked to a mass as you now do : these were their spots and their blemishes ; these were their hay and stubble ; these were their errours , and their ignorances . and i doubt not , but as s. paul for his blasphemies and persecutions , so they obtained mercy for these sins , because they did them ignorantly in misbelief . and upon the same ground we have cause also to hope charitably of many thousand poor souls in italy , spain and other parts of the christian world at this day , that by the same blessed means they may attain mercy and salvation in the end , although in the mean time through ignorance they defile themselves with much foul idolatry , and many gross superstitions . obj. but the ignorance which excuseth from sin , is ignorantia facti , according to that hath been already declared ; but theirs was ignorantia juris , which excuseth not . and besides , as they lived in the practice of that worship which we call idolatry , so they dyed in the same without repentance ; and so their case is not the same with s. pauls , who saw those sins and sorrowed for them , and forsook them ; but how can idolaters , living and dying so without repentance , be saved ? ans. it is answered , that ignorance in point of fact so conditioned as hath been shewed doth so excuse à toto ; that an action proceeding thence , though it have a material inconformity with the law of god , is yet not formally a sin . but i do not so excuse the idolatry of our fore-fathers , as if it were not in it self a sin , and that ( without repentance ) damnable . but yet their ignorance being such as it was ; nourished by education , custom , tradition , the tyranny of their leaders , the fashion of the times , not without shew also of piety and devotion ; and themselves , withal , having such slender means of better knowledge ; though it cannot wholly excuse them from sin without repentance damnable , yet it much lesseneth and qualifieth the sinfulness of their idolatry ; arguing that their continuance therein was more from other prejudices , than from a wilful contempt of gods holy word and will. and as for their repentance , it is as certain , that as many of them as are saved did repent of their idolatries , as it is certain no idolater nor other sinner can be saved without repentance . but then there is a double difference to be observed between repentance for ignorances , and known sins ; the one must be particular , the other general ; the one cannot be sincere without forsaking , the other may ; which he inlarges upon , and then concludes , some of our fore-fathers then , might not only live in popish idolatry , but even dye in an idolatrous act , breathing out their last with their lips at a crucifix and an ave mary in their thoughts : and yet have truly repented , ( though but in the general , and the croud of their unknown sins ) even of those very sins ; and have at the same instant true faith in jesus christ , and other graces accompanying salvation . r. p. but hath not christ promised that the gates of hell shall never prevail against his church ? p. d. this dr. st. hath already answered thus . against what church ? the whole christian church ? whoever said they could , or how doth that follow ? the church of constantinople , or the church of jerusalem ? have not the gates of the turk been too strong for them ? the church of rome ? the gates of hell do certainly prevail against that , if it doth unchurch all other churches that are not of its communion . and why may not idolatry prevail where luciferian pride , and hellish cruelty , and desperate wickedness have long since prevailed ? hath christ made promises to secure that church from errour , which hath been over-run with all sorts of wickedness by the confession of her own members and friends ? r. p. but t. g. saith , that dr. st. ought to have assigned us some church distinct in all ages , from all heretical and idolatrous congregations , which christ hath preserved alwayes from heresie and idolatry ? p. d. why so ? unless he had first yielded , that christ had promised to preserve such a distinct congregation of christians , which he never did . but he shewed the feebleness of that kind of arguing , from particulars to generals ; as though all the promises made to the church must fail , if the church of rome be guilty of idolatry . r. p. but i will prove that dr. st. ought to assign such a distinct church , because , he saith , that a christian by vertue of his being so , is bound to joyn in some church or congregation of christians , therefore there must be such a church at all times to joyn with . p. d. i answer , ( . ) dr. st.'s answer doth imply no more than this , that a christian is bound to joyn with other christians in the acts of gods publick worship ; but withal he adds immediately , that he is bound to choose the communion of the purest church ; which doth suppose a competition between two churches , where a person may embrace the communion of either , as the church of england , and the church of rome . so that where there are distinct communions , the best is to be chosen . ( . ) supposing no church to be so pure that a mans conscience can be fully satisfied in all the practices of it , yet he may lawfully hold communion with that church he is baptized in , till the unlawful practices become the condition of his communion . as here in england , the conditions of communion are different as to clergy-men and lay-men ; if the latter be satisfied in what concerns them , they have no reason to reject communion themselves , for what concerns others . ( . ) where any church doth require idolatrous acts as conditions of communion , that church is the cause of a separation made for a distinct communion . so that there is no necessity of assigning a distinct church in all ages free from heresie and idolatry ; since men may communicate with a corrupt church , so they do not communicate in their corruptions ; and when they come to that height to require this , they make themselves the causes of the separation which is made on the account of heresie , or idolatry . r. p. still that promise sticks with me , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church : and are not heresie and idolatry the two posts of those gates ? p. d. if you turn over that promise never so much , you will prove no more from it , than the continuance of a christian church in the world , with a capacity of salvation to the members of it . and this we do not deny : but it doth not prove that any particular church shall be preserved in all ages free from heresie and idolatry . for whatever may be consistent with the salvation of the members of a church , may be consistent with the gates of hell not prevailing against it ; but heresie and idolatry may be consistent with the salvation of the members of a church . because there are so many cases assigned by divines , wherein sins of ignorance and errour , are consistent with salvation . i say then , that christs promises do prove a possibility of salvation in all ages of the christian church ; but they do not prove the indefectibility of any distinct church . r. p. but why doth dr. st. say , the gates of hell have prevailed against the church of rome , when himself acknowledges it to be a true church , as holding all the essential points of faith ? p. d. as though a man could be damned for nothing , but for denying the articles of his creed ! it is in respect of pride , cruelty , and all sorts of wickedness , as well as idolatry , that he saith , the gates of hell have prevailed against it . r. p. well! but t. g. for all that proves , that all christians are bound by vertue of their christianity to joyn in communion with the church of rome . p. d. doth he so ? it is a great undertaking , and becoming t. g. but how ? r. p. first , there was in the world before luther a distinct church , whose communion was necessary to salvation , but this was not the protestant , for that came in after luther , therefore it was the roman . p. d. this is very subtle reasoning , yet it is possible we may find out something like it . there was in the world before julius caesar some civil society , in which it was necessary for a man to live for his own preservation ; but this was not the roman empire , for that rose up after him ; therefore it was the roman common-wealth . but doth not this imply , that there was no other civil society in the world , wherein a man could preserve himself , but the roman common-wealth ? but i will put the case a little farther home ; after britain was made a province , it became a member of the roman empire , and depended so much upon the strength and arms of rome , that it was not able to defend it self ; it being sore distressed by enemies , and in danger of ruine , sends to rome for help ; there it is denyed , and the britains forced to look out for help elsewhere . now after t. g.'s way of reasoning the britains must return to the romans , because once they had been members of the roman empire . the case is alike in the church ; the time was when the western church was united under one head , but by degrees this head grew too heavy , and laid too great a load on the members , requiring very hard and unreasonable conditions from them ; upon this , some of the members seek for relief , this is denyed them , they take care of their own safety , and do what is necessary to preserve themselves . the head and some corrupt members conspiring , denounce excommunication , if they do not presently yield and submit . these parts stand upon their own rights and ancient priviledges ; that it was not an vnion of submission but association originally between several national churches : and therefore the church of rome assuming so much more to it self , than did belong to it , and dealing so tyrannically ; upon just complaints our church had reason to assert her own freedom , and to reform the abuses which had crept either into her doctrine or practice . and that this was lawful proceeding , it offered to justifie by scripture and reason and the rules of the primitive church . now the question of communion , as it was stated between t. g. and dr. st. comes to this , whether any person being baptized in this church , ought in order to his salvation to forsake the communion of it , for that of the church of rome ? and this being the true state of it , i pray , where lies the force of the argument ? dr. st. yields communion with some church to be necessary : and what follows , the communion of the church of england is so to one baptized in it ; why must any such leave it for that of the church of rome ? yes , saith t. g. , there was a distinct church before luther , whose communion was necessary to salvation ; and what then ? what have we to do with luther ? we are speaking of the present church of england , which was reformed by it self , and not by luther . why is it necessary to leave this church , in which persons are baptized , and not in that before luther ? here lyes the main hinge of the controversie ; to which t. g. ought to speak , and not to run to a church before luther . the church of england was the church of england before the reformation as well as since ; but it hath now reformed it self , being an entire body within it self , having bishops to govern it , priests and deacons to administer sacraments , to preach the word of god , to officiate in the publick liturgie , in which all the ancient creeds are read and owned ; the question now is , whether salvation cannot be had in the communion of this church ? or all persons are bound to return to the church of rome ? this is the point , if t. g. hath any more to say to it . r. p. t. g. urgeth farther , nothing can render the communion of the roman church not necessary to salvation , but either heresie or schism ; not heresie , because she holds all the essential articles of christian faith ; not schism , because then dr. st. must assign some other distinct church ( then at least in being ) from whose vnity she departed . p. d. a right doway argument ! one would take t. g. for a young missioner by it ; it is so exactly cut in their form. but it proceeds upon such false suppositions as these . ( . ) that communion with the roman church as such , i. e. as a body united under such a head , was necessary to salvation , which we utterly deny ; and it can never be proved , but by shewing , that christ appointed the bishop of rome to be head of the church ; which is an argument , i do not find that now adays , you are willing to enter upon ; being so thread-bare and baffled a topick . ( . ) that no doctrines but such as are contrary to the articles of the creed , can be any reason to hold off from the communion of a church ; but we think , the requiring doubtful things for certain , false for true , new for old , absurd for reasonable are ground enough for us not to embrace the communion of a church , unless it may be had on better terms than these . ( . ) that no church can be guilty of schism , unless we can name some distinct church from whose vnity it separated ; whereas we have often proved , that imposing unreasonable conditions of communion , makes the church so imposing guilty of the schism . surely t. g.'s stock is almost spent , when he plays the same game so often over . these are not such terrible arguments to be produced afresh , as if they had never been heard of ; when there is not a missioner that comes , but hath them at his fingers end . r. p. but the roman church was once the true church , rom. . and the christian world of all ages , believed it to be the only true church of christ ; but it cannot be proved not to be the true one , by an evidence equal to that which once proved it true ; therefore we are bound to be of the communion of that church . p. d. o the vertue of sodden coleworts ! how often are they produced without shame ! to be short sir , ( . ) we deny that the church of which the pope is head , was ever commended by st. paul ; or in any one age of the christian world , was owned by it to be the only true church : which is very much short of the whole christian world of all ages . ( . ) since the evidence is so notoriously faulty about proving the roman church to be the only true church ; a small degree of evidence as to its corruptions may exceed it , and consequently be sufficient to keep us from returning to its communion . but what doth t. g. mean by repeating such stuff as this ? which i dare say dr. st. only passed by , on account of the slightness and commonness of it ; they being arguments every day brought , and every day answered . and if he had a mind to see dr. st.'s mind about them , he might have seen it at large in his defence of archhishop laud ; and do you think it fair for him , every book he writes , to produce afresh every argument there , which hath received no answer ? r. p. i perceive you begin to be out of patience . p. d. not , i assure you , when i meet with any thing that deserves it . r. p. here comes our fanatick friend to refresh you a little . what is the matter man ? why so sad ? have you met with an ill bargain at the auction ? f. c. no , no. i got a book last night , hath taken me up till this time ; and truly , i have read something in it which fits much upon my spirit . r. p. what is it ? if we may ask you . f. c. it is no comfort either to you , or me . r. p. if i be concerned , i pray let me know . f. c. you know last night we heard them at rutherford and gillespee ; i came in time enough for gillespee's miscellany questions ; a rare book , i promise you . and by a particular favour i carried it home with me , and looking upon the contents , i found the seasonable case , viz. about associations and confederacies with idolaters , infidels , or hereticks : and he proves them to be so absolutely unlawful from scripture , and many sound orthodox divines , that for my part he hath fully convinced and setled me , and i thought it my duty to come and to tell you so . r. p. well , we will let alone that discourse at present , we are at our old trade again : and i was just coming to a seasonable question for you , viz. whether you have not as much reason to separate from the church of england , as the church of england had from the church of rome ? f. c. who doubts of that ? p. d. i do sir ; nay more , i absolutely deny it . f. c. what matter is it , what you say or deny ? you will do either for a good preferment . have not you assented and consented to all that is in the book of common prayer , and what will you stick at after ? p. d. consider sir , what it is to judge rash judgement ; i wonder men that pretend to conscience , and seem so nice and scrupulous in some things , can allow thmselves in the practice of so dangerous a sin . if you have a mind to debate this point before us , without clamour and impertinency , i am for you . f. c. you would fain draw me in to dispute again , would you ? no such matter , there is your man , he will manage our cause for us against you of the church of england , i warrant you . r. p. i am provided for it : for t. g. desires of dr. st. for the sake of the presbyterians , anabaptists , and other separated congregations , to know why the believing all the ancient creeds , and leading a good life may not be sufficient to salvation , unless one be of the communion of the church of england ? p. d. a very doughty question ! as though we were like you , and immediately damned all persons , who are not of the communion of our church . we say , their separation from us is very unjust and unreasonable ; and that there is no colour for making their case equal with ours , as to the separation from the church of rome . r. p. i will tell you of a man who makes the case parallel , it is one dr. st. in his irenicum : and t. g. produces many pages out of him to that purpose . p. d. to save you the trouble of repeating them , i have read them over , and do think these answers may serve for his vindication . ( . ) that in that very place he makes separation from a church retaining purity of doctrine , on the account of some corrupt practices to be unlawful ; and afterwards in case men be unsatisfied as to some conditions of communion , he denies it to be lawful to erect new churches ; because a meer requiring conformity in some suspected rites , doth not make a church otherwise sound to be no true church : or such a church from which it is lawful to make a total separation , which is then done , when men enter into a new and distinct society for worship , under distinct and peculiar officers , governing by laws and church rules different from those of the church they separate from . and now , let your fanatick friend judge whether this man , even in the dayes of writing his irenicum , did justifie the practices of the separated congregations ; which he speaks expressely against ? f. c. no truly . we are all now for separated congregations , and know better what we have to do , than our fore-fathers did . alas ! what comfort is there in bare nonconformity ? for our people would not endure us , if we did not proceed to separation . he that speaks against separation ruins us and our cause . p. d. so far then we have cleared dr. st. from patronizing the cause of the separated congregations . ( . ) he saith , that as to things left undetermined by the law of god in the judgement of the primitive and reformed churches , and in matters of order , decency and government , every one notwithstanding what his private judgement may be of them , is bound to submit to the determination of the lawful governours of the church . can any thing be said plainer for conformity , than this is by the author of the irenicum ? r. p. but how then come in those words produced by t. g. ? p. d. i will tell you ; he supposes that some scrupulous and conscientious men after all endeavours used to satisfie themselves , may remain unsatisfied as to the lawfulness of some imposed rites , but dare not proceed to positive separation from the church , but are willing to comply in all other things save in those rites which they still scruple ; and concerning these he puts the question , whether such bare-nonconformity do involve such men in the guilt of schism ? and this i confess he resolves negatively , and so brings in that long passage t. g. produces out of him . i now appeal to your self , whether t. g. hath dealt fairly with dr. st. in two things , ( . ) in not distinguishing the case of separation , from that of bare nonconformity , only in some suspected rites ; and in producing these words to justifie the separated congregations ? ( . ) in taking his judgement in this matter rather from his irenicum written so long since , than from his late writings , wherein he hath purposely considered the difference of the case of those who separate from the church of england and of our separation from the church of rome . r. p. but hath he done this indeed ? and did t. g. know it ? p. d. yes very well . for it is in that very book , the preface whereof t. g. pretends to answer in these dialogues : and he doth not speak of it by the by , but discourseth largely about it . is this fair dealing ? but the irenicum served better for his purpose as he thought , and yet he hath foully misrepresented that too . r. p. but yet dr. st. must not think to escape so : for he hath searched another book of his , called his rational account , and there he finds a passage he thinks in favour to dissenters from the church of england ; and which undermines the church of england . p. d. therefore the church of rome is not guilty of idolatry . r. p. have a little patience ; we shall come to that in time . at present i pray clear this matter , if you can . p. d. to what purpose is all this raking , and scraping , and searching , and quoting of passages not at all to the point of idolatry ? r. p. what! would you have a man do nothing to fill up a book , and make it carry something of the port of an answer ; especially to a thick book of between and pages ? p. d. if this be your design , go on : but i will make my answers as short as i can ; for methinks t. g. seems to have lost that spirit and briskness he had before ; for then he talked like a man that had a mind to keep close to the point ; but now he flags and draws heavily on : for he repeats what he had said before for some pages , and then quotes out of dr. st.'s other books for several pages more , and at last it comes to no more than this , dr. st. doth in some places of his writings seem to favour the dissenters . i am quite tired with this impertinency : yet i would fain see an end of these things , that we might come close to the business of idolatry which i long to be at . r. p. your stomach is too sharp set ; we must blunt it a little before you fall to . p. d. you take the course to do it , with all this impertinency ; but what is it you have to say ? r. p. to please you i will bring this charge as near to the point of idolatry as i can ; the substance of it is this , dr. st. saith , the church of england doth not look on her articles as articles of faith , but as inferiour truths ; from thence t. g. infers , ( . ) the church of rome doth not err against any articles of faith. ( . ) dr. st. doth not believe the thirty nine articles to be articles of faith. ( . ) then this charge of idolatry is vain and groundless , because idolatry is an error against a fundamental point of faith. p. d. here is not one word new in all this long charge , but a tedious repetition of what t. g. had said before . it consists of two points . . the charge upon dr. st. for undermining the church of england . . the unreasonableness of the charge of idolatry upon his own supposition . because t. g. seems to think there is something in this business which touched dr. st. to the quick , and therefore he declined giving any answer to the first part of it , i will undertake to do it for him . dr. st. doth indeed say that the church of england doth not make her articles articles of faith , as the church of rome doth the articles of pope pius the fourth his creed . and did ever any divine of the church of england say otherwise ? it is true the church of rome from her insolent pretence of infallibility , doth make all things proposed by the church of equal necessity to salvation ; because the ground of faith is the churches authority in proposing things to be believed . but doth the church of england challenge any such infallibility to her self ? no. she utterly disowns it , in her very articles ; therefore she must leave matters of faith , as she found them ; i. e. she receives all the creeds into her articles and offices , but makes no additions to them of her own ; and therefore dr. st. did with great reason say , that the church of england makes no articles of faith , but such as have the testimony and approbation of the whole christian world and of all ages , and are acknowledged to be such by rome it self : from whence he doth justly magnifie the moderation of this church in comparison with the church of rome . r. p. but t. g. saith , that he hath degraded the articles of the church of england from being articles of faith , into a lower classe of inferiour truths . p. d. i perceive plainly t. g. doth not know what an article of faith means according to the sense of the church of england . he looks on all propositions made by the church as necessary articles of faith , which is the roman sense , and founded on the doctrine of infallibility ; but where the churches infallibility is rejected , articles of faith are such as have been thought necessary to salvation by the consent of the christian world , which consent is seen in the ancient creeds . and whatever doctrine is not contained therein though it be received as truth , and agreeable to the word of god , yet is not accounted an article of faith : i. e. not immediately necessary to salvation as a point of faith , but because of the dissentions of the christian world in matters of religion , a particular church may for the preservation of her own peace declare her sense as to the truth and falshood of some controverted points of religion , and require from all persons who are intrusted in the offices of that church a subscription to those articles , which doth imply that they agree with the sense of that church about them . r. p. but dr. st. saith from arch-bishop bramhall , that the church doth not oblige any man to believe them , but only not to contradict them , and upon this t. g. triumphs over dr. st. as undermining the doctrine and government of the church of england . p. d. why not over arch-bishop bramhall , whose words dr. st. cites ? and was he a favourer of dissenters , and an underminer of the church of england ? yet dr. st. himself in that place owns a subscription to them as necessary ; and what doth subscription imply less than agreeing with the sense of the church ? so that he saith more than arch-bishop bramhall doth . and i do not see how his words can pass , but with this construction , that when he saith , we do not oblige any man to believe them , he means as articles of faith , of which he speaks just before . but i do freely yield that the church of england doth require assent to the truth of those propositions which are contained in the thirty nine articles : and so doth dr. st. when he saith , the church requires subscription to them as inferiour truths , i. e. owning them to be true propositions , though not as articles of faith , but articles of religion , as our church calls them . r. p. if they are but inferiour truths , saith t. g. was it worth the while to rend asunder the peace of christendom for them ? is not this a very reasonable account , as i. s. calls it , of the grounds of the protestant religion , and a rare way of justifying her from the guilt of schism ? p. d. t. g. mistakes the matter . it was not our imposing negative points on others ; but the church of romes imposing false and absurd doctrines for necessary articles of faith , which did break the peace of christendom . we could have no communion with the church of rome unless we owned her supremacy , her canon of scripture , her rule of faith , or the equality of tradition and scripture , her doctrines of purgatory , invocation of saints , worship of images , transubstantiation , &c. and we were required not only to own them as true , which we know to be false ; but as necessary to salvation , which we look on as great hinderances to it . what was to be done in this case ? communion could not be held on other terms , than declaring false opinions to be true , and dangerous doctrines to be necessary to salvation . on such terms as these we must renounce our christianity , to declare that we believed falshoods for truths , and not barely as truths , but as necessary articles of faith. therefore what schism there was , the church of rome must thank her self for . and when this breach happened , our church thought it necessary to express her sense of these doctrines , that they were so far from being articles of faith , that they were false and erroneous , having no foundation either in scripture or antiquity : and required a subscription to this declaration , from such as are admitted to teach and instruct others . how could our church do less than she did in this matter , if she would declare her sense to the world , or take care of her own security ? and is this making negative articles of faith ; about which t. g. and e. w. and others , have made such senseless clamours ? when we only declare those things they would impose upon us to be so far from being articles of faith , that they are erroneous doctrines , and therefore are rejected by us . and this i take to be a reasonable account of the potestant religion ; which is more than i. s. hath given to those of his own church of his demonstrations . r. p. but since dr. st. grants the church of rome to hold all the essential points of faith , how can he charge her with idolatry , since idolatry is an errour against the most fundamental point of faith ? i pray answer to this , for this comes home to the business . p. d. i am glad to see you but coming that way . to this dr. st. hath already given a full and clear answer , in his late defence . ( . ) he saith , by the church of romes holding all essential points of faith no more is meant than that she owns and receives all the ancient creeds . ( . ) t. g. grants , that idolatry is giving the worship due to god to a creature ; if therefore a church holding the essential points of faith may give the worship due to god to a creature , then there is no contradiction between saying the church of rome holds all the essential points of faith , and yet charging it with idolatry . because idolatry is a practical errour , and therefore may be consistent with holding all the doctrinal points of faith ; no more being necessary to it , as dr. st. proves , than entertaining a false notion of divine worship , by which means it may really give gods worship to a creature , and yet be very orthodox in holding that gods worship ought not to be given to a creature . r. p. t. g. was aware of this answer , and thus he takes it off . to err , he saith , strictly speaking , is to teach that which is opposite to truth ; but if the church of rome teaches that the worship she gives to saints and images is not a part of the honour due to god , and yet it is ; then she errs against the second commandment , though she judges she doth not . p. d. what is this to the purpose ? the question is not whether idolatry doth not imply a practical errour against the second commandment ; but whether it be consistent with the doctrinal points of faith , such as are essential to the being of a church ? for of this sort of errours , all the dispute was , as is plain from dr st.'s words , which gave occasion to this objection . r. p. but is it not a fundamental errour to destroy the doctrine of the second commandment ? p. d. if it be , the more care had they need to have who put it out of their books , that it may not fly in their faces . but who ever reckoned the commandments among the articles of faith ? i do not deny it to be a very dangerous practical errour to destroy the doctrine of the second commandment ; or rather to take away the whole force of the precept ; but i say , this is none of those essential points of faith , which dr. st. spake of , and therefore this is no answer to him . r. p. therefore t. g. adds , that this doth not proceed upon a general thesis , whether some idolatrous practice may not consist with owning the general principles of faith ; but upon a particular hypothesis , whether the worship of god by an image , be not an errour against the doctrine of the second commandment , if that be to forbid men to worship him by an image ? and therefore if it be a fundamental point to believe that to be idolatry which god hath expresly forbidden in the law under the notion of idolatry , and that be the worshipping of him by an image , as dr. st. asserts ; 't is clear that the church of rome in telling men it is not idolatry , errs against a fundamental point , and he cannot according to his principles maintain his charge of idolatry without a contradiction . p. d. this is then the thing to be tryed ; and therefore we must judge of it by what dr. st. said , to which this is supposed to be a contradiction . did he ever say that the church of rome did not erre against the doctrine of the second commandment ? nay , he hath invincibly proved it hath . i say invincibly , since t. g. gives it up in these dialogues ; spending so many pages upon the repetition of his old arguments , and passing over all that elaborate discourse of dr. st. about the sense of the second commandment , on which the hinge of the controversie depends . if then dr. st. doth charge them with a very dangerous and pernicious errour in respect of this commandment , that could not be the fundamental errour he cleared the church of rome from , when he said , she held all essential points of faith , ( mark that ) and he explained himself purposely to prevent such a mistake , to mean such doctrinal points of faith as are essential to the constitution of a church and the true form of baptism ; now the question is , whether it be a contradiction for a man to say , that the church of rome doth hold all these essential points of faith , and yet is guilty of idolatry ? and how after all , hath t. g. proved it ? it is a fundamental point , saith he , to believe that to be idolatry which god hath forbidden as idolatry ; and so it is to believe that to be perjury , and theft and adultery , which god hath forbidden under their notion . but will any man say the true notion of adultery is a doctrinal point of faith ? although therefore it be granted that the church of rome do err fundamentally against the second commandment ; yet that doth not prove dr. st. guilty of a contradiction , because he spake not of practical errours , but of the doctrinal and essential points of faith. and now i hope we have done with all these preliminaries , and may come to the point of idolatry it self . r. p. hold a little , you are still too quick ; i have something more yet to say to you before we come to it . p. d. what is that ? r. p. i have a great deal to tell you out of mr. thorndikes just weights and measures , about the charge of idolatry and the mischievous consequences of it . p. d. to what end should you repeat all that ? i begin to think you were not in jest , when you said t. g. put in some things to fill up his book . dr. st. had before declared the great esteem he had for mr. thorndikes learning and piety ; but in this particular , he declared , that he saw no reason to recede from the common doctrine of the church of england , on the account of mr. thorndikes authority , or arguments . and i have already given you such an account of his opinion with respect to the church of rome , as i hope will take off mr. thorndikes testimonies being so often alledged against us by t. g. and his brethren . if t. g. had not purposely declined the main matters in debate between dr. st. and him , he would never have stuffed out so much of his book with things so little material to that which ought to have been the main design of it . r. p. but i have somewhat more to say to you , which is , that you charge t. g. with declining the dispute about the sense of the second commandment , whereas he doth speak particularly to it . p. d. i am glad to hear it ; i hope then he takes off the force of what dr. st. had said in his late defence about it . for i assure you it was much expected from him . r. p. what would you have a man do ? he produces at least four leaves of what he had said before : and then a little after , near two leaves more : and within a few pages , above two leaves again out of his old book ; and then tells how dr. st. spends above an hundred pages about the sense of the second commandment , whereas he neither removes the contradictions , nor answers the arguments of t. g. but criticizeth upon the exceptions of t. g. to the several methods for finding out the sense of the law ; but , saith he , what need so much pains and labour be taken , if the law be express ; and do not you think this enough about the second commandment ? p. d. no truly . nor you neither , upon any consideration . for the dr. in his discourse upon the second commandment , ( . ) hath manifestly overthrown t. g.'s notion of an idol , viz. of a figment set up for worship , by such clear and convincing arguments , that if t. g· had any thing to have said in defence of it , he would never have let it escaped thus . ( . ) (*) he hath proved the sense he gives of the commandment to be the same which the fathers gave of it . ( . ) (†) he takes off t. g.'s instances of worshipping before the ark and the cherubims ; and (*) the testimony of s. austin . ( . ) (†) he answers t. g.'s objections and clears the sense of the law by all the means a law can be well understood . and is all this , do you think , answered by t. g.'s repeating what he had said before ; or blown down by a puff or two of wit ? i do not know what t. g. thinks of it , but i do not find any understanding man takes this for an answer , but a meer put-off . so that i may well say , dr. st.'s proofs are invincible , when t. g. so shamefully retreats out of the field , and sculks under some hedges and thorns which he had planted before , for a shelter in time of need . r. p. but why did not dr. st. answer punctually to all that t. g. said ? p. d. because he did not think it material , if the main things were proved . r. p. bu● t. g. will think them unanswerable , till he receive satisfaction concerning them . p. d. that it may be is impossible to give a man , that hath no mind to receive it ; but if you please , let me hear the strength of what t. g. lays such weight upon , that he may have no such pretence for the future ; and lest the third time we meet with the same coleworts . r. p. doth not dr. st. make express scripture his most certain rule of faith ? doth not he on the other side deny any thing to be an article of faith , which is not acknowledged to be such by rome it self . then if god hath expresly forbidden the worship of himself by an image , it is an article of faith that he ought not to be worshipped by an image ; and since rome doth not acknowledge it , it is not an article of faith. therefore t. g. calls upon the dr. to speak out . is it , or is it not an article of faith ? but t. g. saith , he hath found out the mysterie of the business ( for he can find out mysteries , i assure you , as well as discover plots , and catch moles ) to gratifie the non-conformists , the articles of the church of england must pass only for inferiour truths ; but when the church of rome is to be charged with idolatry , then they are articles of faith : so that , as t. g. pleasantly saith , the same proposition taken irenically is an inferiour truth , but taken polemically it must be an article of faith , because expresly revealed in scripture . p. d. is this it which t. g. thought worth repeating at large ? surely it was for the sake of the clinch of irenically and polemically , and not for any shew of difficulty in the thing . for all the mist is easily scattered by observing a very plain distinction of an article of faith ; which is either taken , . for an essential point of faith , such as is antecedently necessary to the being of a christian church ; and so the creed is said to contain the articles of our faith , and in this sense dr. st. said the church of rome did hold all the essential points of faith which we did . . for any doctrine plainly revealed in scripture which is our rule of faith . and did dr. st. ever deny that the church of rome opposed some things clearly revealed in scripture ? nay , it is the design of his books to prove it doth . and if every doctrine which can be deduced from a plain command of scripture , is to be looked on as an article of faith , then that the cup is to be given to those who partake of the bread , that prayers are to be in a known tongue , will become articles of faith , and do you think dr. st. either irenically or polemically , did ever yield that the church of rome did not oppose these ? if t. g. lays so much weight on such slight things as these , i must tell you he is not the man i took him for : and i believe it was only civility in dr. st. to pass such things by . r.p. but t.g. would know , what he means by expresly forbidden , only that it is clear to himself , expecting that others should submit to his saying it , as the travellers did to polus in erasmus ; or that it is clear or manifest of it self ? and that it is not so , he saith , appears by the pains and wayes he takes to find it out . p. d. this is yet a degree lower . by clearly and expresly , dr. st. means that which is so to an unprejudiced mind . for there is nothing so plain , but men may cavil at it . not the being of god ; not the certainty of our senses ; not the differences of good and evil ; not the coming of the messias ; not the truth of the scriptures . but will t. g. say , that none of these are clear , because men are put to pains and several wayes to prove them ? if therefore dr. st. hath shewed that all the evasions of the force of the second commandment are meer cavils , and would take off as well the force of any other commandment , if men thought themselves as much concerned to do it ; i think he hath proved the sense of the commandment to be clear and express against the worship of god by an image . and for his friend polus , you know it doth not look well in conversation for a man to repeat his own jests . but you named a third passage t. g. repeats out of his former book . what is that , i pray ? r. p. that concerns dr. st.'s first way of finding out the sense of the law ; for , he saith , the law doth only expresly forbid bowing down to the images themselves , as the heathens did , but speaks not one word of the lawfulness , or unlawfulness of worshipping god himself by them ; and upon this he upbraids dr. st. that spending above a hundred pages about the sense of the second commandment , he neither endeavours to remove the contradictions , nor to answer the arguments of t. g. p. d. then truly he deserved pity , and to have his friends come in to help him , they are such wonderful contradictions and mighty arguments . but dr. st. hath at large proved , ( . ) that the heathens did not take the images themselves for gods ; in a large discourse to that purpose , and consequently this command was not express against the heathen idolatry in t. g.'s sense of it . ( . ) that the fathers did understand this commandment to be expresly against the worship of god by an image ; in another large discourse : which he concludes with those words of s. ambrose , non vult se deus in lapidibus coli , god will not be worshipped in stones . and is this nothing to the answering t. g.'s arguments ? ( . ) that the worship of god before the ark and the cherubims ( the only argument of t. g. ) doth not reach to the worship of god by images ; and this in another set discourse . ( . ) that god did afterwards explain his own law , by condemning the worship of himself by images ; in the case of the golden calf , and the calves of dan and bethel , and he punctually answers t. g.'s objections . and after all this , is it not great tenderness and modesty in t. g. to say , that dr. st. only criticizeth upon t. g. 's exceptions , and doth neither remove the contradictions , nor answer the arguments of t. g. ? i never yet saw plainer evidence of a forlorn cause , than these things give . by this taste , i begin to fear , when we come to the charge of idolatry , we shall find very little new , or material . however , being thus far engaged , i am resolved , god willing , to attend you quite through his late dialogues ; and if you please at our next meeting , we will enter upon the charge of idolatry : and i will undertake to make good the charge , and i shall expect from you t. g.'s answers . r. p. i will not fail ; and i pray brother fanatick , let us have your company , for i have a terrible charge against the church of england for bowing to the altar . f. c. i shall be glad to hear that with all my heart . the third conference , about the nature of idolatry . p. d. we are now entring upon a weighty business , and therefore without any preface to it , i begin . dr. st. in his late defence hath undertaken to clear the nature of idolatry , by considering two things . . whether it were consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme god ? . wherein the nature of that divine worship lyes , which being given to a creature makes it idolatry ? . to clear the former , he considered , who those are , which by common consent are charged with idolatry , and from thence he supposed the best resolution of the question might be gathered ; and those were , ( . ) the ancient heathens , ( . ) modern heathens , ( . ) the arrians . and concerning these he proved , that they did all acknowledge one supreme god , and consequently the notion of idolatry could not consist in the worship of many independent deities . ( . ) as to the ancient heathens . ( . ) from the testimony of scripture . ( . ) from their own writers in the roman church , of whom he names twelve considerable ones . ( . ) from the fathers ; and there he shews from a multitude of plain testimonies , that the state of the controversie about idolatry between the fathers and heathens , was not about a supreme god which was acknowledged on both sides , but whether divine worship were to be given to any creatures on the account of any supposed excellency in themselves , or relation to god ? and so he draws the history of this controversie through the several ages of justin martyr , athenagoras , clemens of alexandria , origen , cyril , s. augustin , &c. in short , through all those who did with greatest reputation to christianity manage this cause against the heathen idolaters . ( . ) as to modern heathens ; two wayes . ( . ) from the testimony of your own writers concerning the brachmans , chineses , tartars , americans , africans , goths and laplanders . ( . ) from the testimony of the congregation of cardinals in a remarkable case about idolatry in china , wherein their resolution was desired . ( . ) as to the arrians , he proves from athanasius , gr. nazianzen , nyssen , basil , epiphanius , cyril , theodoret , s. chrysostom , s. ambrose , s. augustin ; that the arrians were unanimously charged with idolatry ; although they did acknowledge but one god , and supposed the greatest created excellencies to be in christ , and believed the worship of christ tended to the honour of the father . . as to the nature of divine worship . he proceeds in this method . . to shew what worship is ; which he distinguishes from honour , the one relating to bare excellency , the other to superiority and power ; which distinction he proves from the most eminent school divines . . what divine worship is ; viz. such a subjection of our selves to god as shews his peculiar soveraignty over us : from whence he proceeds to manifest , that there are some peculiar external acts of divine worship , which he proves , ( . ) from the nature and design of religious worship ; and here he enquires into the distinction of civil and religious worship ; which , he saith , as other moral actions , is to be taken from the circumstances of them : and from hence came the institution of solemn rites for religious worship . and the best divines of the roman church do allow , that there ought to be some peculiar external acts of divine worship ; which he likewise proves from the infinite distance between god and his creatures ; and from the remarkable testimonies of the heathens to that purpose . ( . ) from gods appropriating some external acts of worship to himself ; wherein he speaks to two things : . what those acts are which god hath appropriated to himself ; of which he reckons up six . . sacrifice . . religious adoration . . erection of temples and altars . . burning of incense . . solemn invocation . . vows . . how far gods appropriating these acts doth concern us ? which he thus resolves . . it is granted there must be some peculiar acts. . god is the best judge of them . . what he hath once appropriated cannot be made common till his will be declared . . christ hath made no alteration herein by his law. . the apostles suppose the same notion of idolatry to continue still . . the jews did esteem it idolatry to use those acts of worship towards any creature . where he shews that idolatry may be committed as many wayes as worship may become due to god. ( . ) from the sense of the christian church ; which hath condemned those for idolatry who have applyed these appropriate acts of worship to any thing besides god. . how the applying the acts of religious worship to a creature makes that worship idolatry ? where he explains , . what real honour we do allow to the saints on the account of their excellencies . . what worship we deny to them . ( . ) inward submission of our souls in prayer , dependence , and thanksgiving . ( . ) external and solemn acts of religious worship , which are given to saints in the church of rome : and he proves from unquestionable testimonies of antiquity , that the fathers did deny to be given to them . and so he concludes that discourse with a full and clear explication of a testimony of s. augustin against invocation of saints . this is a brief abstract of the design of dr. st.'s discourse concerning the nature of idolatry ; whose parts are too well considered and put together to be blown down with a puff or two of wit. let me now hear how t. g. hath acquitted himself in this matter , which we shall the better judge of , by having this scheme before us . r. p. i perceive you expect t. g. should have followed dr. st.'s method , and have answered him part by part ; but he was wiser than so ; for he charges him with three things . ( . ) that he makes vain , and endless , and unnecessary discourses . ( . ) that he ought to have laid down the true notion of idolatry from the nature of the thing , which he hath not done . ( . ) that he hath unfaithfully reported the words and sense of authors . after which , he disproves the parallel between the heathen and romish idolatry . p. d. this last , if you please , we will reserve to another conference ; for i believe the other three , will hold us long enough . i pray begin where t. g. doth . r. p. first , he complains much of the bulk of the book ; and brings in a kind of a taylors bill of the number of pages : imp. of t. g.'s notion of idolatry , p. . it. of the nature of divine worship , p. . it. of the controversie about images between christians and heathens , p. . it. of images in the christian church , p. . odd . it. of the sense of the second commandment , p. . it. of instances , and facings and linings , p. . sum. tot . p. . was not this enough to put any man out of humour ? p. d. no doubt ; when he considered he was to pay it all . and i do believe what he saith , that he was very uneasie when he read it ; and like the laconian in boccalini , who was condemned to read over guicciardines war of pisa : and desired rather to be condemned to the gallies . for there is nothing more troublesome to a man than to see that he owes more than he is ever able to pay . r. p. but t. g. shews how much of the bill might have been cut off . p. d. the shortest way had been to have thrown all into the fire , as no doubt he would have done , if it had been in his power , and that had been the most effectual discharge to dr. st. 's charge of idolatry . but do you think , it is a good answer to an indictment , to say it consisted of too many lines ? r. p. t. g. saith he ought to have proceeded more mathematically . p. d. how so ? r. p. by laying down only these four postulata . . that idolatry may consist with the acknowledgement of one supreme being . . that god ought to be worshipped according to his own appointment . . that the wiser heathens pretended they did not look on their images as gods , but as symbols of that being to which they gave divine worship . . that for the four first centuries , there was little or no use of images in the temples and oratories of christians . which as far as i understand t. g. he was willing to have granted him . p. d. are you sure of that ? if these things be fairly granted , they will go a great way toward the resolution of the present question . but i pray let me understand how far and in what sense ? r. p. for the first , that idolatry may consist with the acknowledgement of one supreme being : i perceive t. g. puts this limitation to it , at least as idolatry is taken by dr. st. for the giving external acts of worship , due only to god , to a creature . p. d. let us then lay up this at present , that real idolatrous worship is consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme god ; which may be of use to us in this debate . r. p. for the second , t. g. saith , that it is no where denyed , but is supposed by him , when he saith , that if god have forbidden himself to be worshipped after such a manner , the giving him such worship will be dishonouring of him , though the giver intend it never so much for his honour , much more then , the giving acts of worship appropriated to him to another . p. d. this is very kind . for then if it appear , that god hath forbidden the worship of himself by an image , it follows that no intention of the person can excuse such worship from idolatry . r. p. for the third , concerning the practice of the wiser heathens , t. g. allows the dr. to make his best of it . p. d. then there may be idolatrous worship of images , where the images themselves are not made the objects of worship ; and consequently if such worship be forbidden in the second commandment , that cannot be understood only of bowing down to the images themselves . r. p. for the fourth , he saith , since the church hath a power in decreeing rites and ceremonies , it had been no prejudice to his cause , if it had been longer , before the use of images was brought into churches . p. d. if the church had looked on the worship of images as an indifferent rite , there had been some reason for what t. g. saith ; but the force of what dr. st. said , lay not meerly in their having no images in churches in the primitive times ; but in the reasons given by the primitive christians against the worship of them . from whence he hath at large proved that the primitive christians did look on the worship of images as utterly unlawful by the law of god , although the object represented did deserve worship . and this i take to be one of the most material discourses in dr. st.'s book , to the present controversie , and which he lays the greatest weight upon . for he insists upon these several particulars . ( . ) * that they judged such a representation of god by images to be unsuitable to his nature ; for which he produceth the testimonies of clemens alexandr . , justin martyr , athenagoras , origen , s. hierom , s. augustin and others . ( . ) † that they looked on the worship of images as repugnant to the will of god ; as being contrary to the second commandment , which did oblige christians . ( . ) * that to suppose that they looked on the worship of images as a thing indifferent , is to charge the primitive christians with great hypocrisie . ( . ) † that the christian church continued to have the same opinion about the worship of images after the pagan idolatry was suppressed . ( . ) * that it was no just excuse in the sense of the primitive church , that they worshipped a true object , or gave only an inferiour worship to the images , for the sake of those represented by them . ( . ) † that ignorance and superstition first brought in the worship of images , which was still condemned by the best divines of the church . ( . ) * that the worship of images came to be established in the church by very indirect means ; such as treason , calumnies , lyes , and burning and suppressing all books against it . ( . ) † that when it was established by the second council of nice , it was vehemently opposed by the western church at the council of francford : and that this council of nice was never owned in the western church for a general council till the reformation began . and now i pray was it possible for t. g. to overlook all these things ? or was it fair to pretend to answer dr. st.'s book , wherein all these things are , and yet to pass them over , as if they had never been written ? if this be the way of making just discharges , i am afraid t. g.'s credit cannot hold out long ; for this is not after the rate of five shillings in the pound : and for all that i see , dr. st. may take out the statute against him . however , i shall consider what he pretends to discharge , and if his payment be not good in that neither , his word will hardly be taken for any just discharge more . i pray go on . r. p. for the fifth chapter , of the sense of the second commandment , t. g. saith , if god hath there expresly prohibited the giving any worship to himself by an image , as dr. st. affirms , there needed no more than to expose the law as in a table in legislative gothick ( as it is done by him , p. . ) with the addition only of a finger in the margent to point to the words for every one that runs to read them . p. d. and must this pass for an answer to dr. st.'s discourse about the sense of the second commandment ? i am really ashamed of such trifling in a matter of so great importance . i know not whether it were the legislative gothick or no , or a finger on the wall , but something or other about that commandment hath so affrighted you in the church of rome , that you dare not let it be seen in your ordinary books of devotion . as for the cavil about expresly , i have answered it already . r. p. for his last chapter , t. g. saith , there needed no more than to say , that the church of england doth not allow any worship to be given to the altar . p. d. is it possible for t. g. to think to fob us off with such answers as these ? barely to tell his adversary , he might have spared this and the other discourse . r. p. but t. g. saith , this is the most material thing in that chapter . p. d. say you so ? was the wise council of nice , so immaterial a thing ? that it must now be quite abandoned , and no kind of discharge be so much as offered to be made for it ? was there nothing material in what concerns the charge of contradictions , paradoxes , school-disputes , & c. ? and all the other instances waved to come to this of bowing to the altar ? there must be some mysterie in this ; and i think i have found it , the patronus bonae fidei inveighs bitterly against this , as worse than egyptian idolatry , and reproaches dr. st. upon account of his defending it : and t. g. finds it much easier to reproach than to answer . r. p. the truth is , this patronus bonae fidei doth t. g. knights service ; for when he hath no mind to appear himself , he serves him for a knight of the post , who runs blindfold upon any thing that may discredit the church of england ; two or three such rare men would ease us of a great deal of trouble . for t. g. takes between five and six pages together out of him in this place , besides what he hath taken up at interest upon other occasions . p. d. is this the just discharge , to borrow so much out of the fanatick stock ? setting then aside what is brought over of the old account , which had been reckoned for before ; and how very many material things are never entred , which he was accountable for ; and how much he hath borrowed upon the bona fides of the fanatick historian , all the rest will amount to a very pitiful discharge . but since no better payment can be had , let us at least examine this : for this bona fides is a kind of republican publick faith , which no body will trust twice , not so much as for bodkins and thimbles . f. c. hold sir. you love alwayes to be rubbing upon old sores ; have you forgot the act of oblivion ? you know we dare not speak what we think of those times now ; and is that fair to accuse when we dare not answer ? mind your own business , defend the church of england if you can , in that idolatrous practice of bowing to the altar . i alwayes thought what it would come to , when dr. st. went about the charge of idolatry upon the principles of the church of england ; i knew he could never defend himself but upon good orthodox fanatick principles , as you call them . now sir , you have him at an advantage , joyn your force and t. g.'s with that of the patronus bonae fidei , and if the geese follow the fox close , you will keep him from ever stirring more . p. d. i thank you for your good will to the cause , and that is all i fear from you ; you only add to the number , and help to preserve the roman capitol by your noise . r. p. you shall not escape thus ; what say you to bowing to the altar , is not that as great idolatry , as worship of images ? p. d. do you not remember the answer dr. st. hath already given to this objection ? r. p. i tell you i read none of his books , and know not what he hath written , but as i find it in t. g. p. d. what is that ? r. p. have i not told you already , that the church of england doth not allow any worship to be given to the altar ? p. d. and is not that to the purpose ? for dare any of you say so of the church of rome in respect of images ? r. p. but t. g. saith , this is not the meaning of the canon which dr. st. produces : for , he saith , the canon only implyes that they give no religious worship to it , but they do not deny any kind of worship to be given to it ; and dr. st. himself grants that there is a reverence due to sacred places . p. d. now your bolt is shot i hope i may have leave to say something both in behalf of the canon and dr. st. ( . ) for the canon , i say as dr. st. did , that it denyes any worship to be given to the altar , for it makes the adoration to be immediately made to the divine majesty , without respect to the altar , either as the object or means of worship , which i prove , ( . ) from the introduction . for can any words be more express than those , in the introduction ? for as much as the church is the house of god , dedicated to his holy worship ( not to that of the altar ) and therefore ought to mind us both of the greatness and goodness of his divine majesty ( not of the sacredness of the altar ) certain it is that the acknowledgement thereof , not only inwardly in our hearts , but also outwardly with our bodies , must needs be pious in it self , profitable unto us and edifying unto others . if the intention of the canon had been to have given any worship to the altar , the introduction must have related to that , and not to the divine majesty . ( . ) from the recommendation ; we therefore think it meet and behooveful , and heartily commend it to all good and well-affected people , members of this church , that they be ready to tender unto the lord , ( not to the altar ) the said due acknowledgement by doing reverence and obeysance both at their coming in and going out of the said churches , &c. according to the most ancient custom of the primitive church in purest times , and of this church also for many years of the reign of queen elizabeth . ( . ) from the express disowning the giving any religious worship to the communion table . which is not meant of an individuum vagum , but of this act of adoration , which is the religious worship here spoken of ; and thereby no kind of worship is intended to the altar , but only to god. and which is more plain yet by what follows , that it is not done out of an opinion of the corporal presence of christs body on the table , or in the mystical elements ; but only ( mark that ) for the advancement of gods majesty , and to give him alone , ( not the altar together with him ) that honour and glory which is due unto him and no otherwise . can any words be plainer than these ? they want only legislative gothick , and a finger in the margent , for t. g. to understand them . ( . ) archbishop laud who certainly understood the meaning of this canon , pleads only for the worship to be given immediately to god himself . god forbid , saith he , that we should worship any thing but god himself : and he adds , if there were no table standing , he would worship god when he came into his house . and he calls it still , doing reverence to almighty god , but only towards his altar : and he saith , the people did understand this fully , and apply the worship to god , and to none but god. ( . ) when the introducing this , was made one of the articles of his charge by the commons ; his answer was , that his bowing was only to worship god , not the altar , and i hope it is no offence or treason to worship god in the kings own chapel , or to induce others to do the like . ( . ) i do not find any of our divines who pleaded most for it , do contend for any more than worshipping god towards the altar , and not giving any worship to the altar ; the arguments they used were for determining the local circumstance of worship , and not for making the altar the object of it . and the difference between these two dr. st. hath at large cleared . r. p. but cannot we say , that we only worship god before an image , and do not give any religious worship to the image , and then the case is parallel ? p. d. you may say so , and you sometimes do , to deceive ignorant people ; but you cannot say it truly . for ( . ) your councils have determined that religious worship is to be given to images ; our canon saith , it is not to be given to the altar , therefore the case is far from being parallel . and dr. st. hath fully proved , that the nicene council did require religious worship to be given to images ; and anathematizes all who do it not . and utterly rejects those that say they are to be had only for memory , and out of some kind of honour or reverence ; for nothing but religious worship would satisfie them . and the acts of that worship are expressed to be not only bowing but prostration , kissing , oblation of incense and lights ; and dr. st. hath elsewhere shewed , that all the acts of worship which the heathens did perform to their images in old rome , are given to images in modern rome . ( . ) those in the church of rome who have only contended for the worship of god before the image , have been condemned by others as savouring of heresie , who say it is a matter of faith in the roman church , that images are to be worshipped truly and properly ; and that the contrary opinion is dangerous , rash , and sovouring of heresie , which is likewise proved at large by dr. st. r. p. but doth not dr. st. himself allow a reverence due to sacred places ? p. d. he doth so . but do you observe the difference he puts between that and worship ? i will endeavour to make his distinct notion of these things plain to you . first , he distinguishes between honour and worship : ( . ) honour he makes to be the esteem of excellency ; either inward , only in the mind . either outward , in acts suitable to that estimation . and this excellency may be twofold , . personal . . relative . . personal ; and that threefold ; . civil ; in regard of humane society , as that of abraham to the children of heth. . moral ; on account of moral excellencies ; either natural , or acquired . . spiritual ; in regard of supernatural graces : and that may be given two wayes , ( . ) to the persons as present ; which is religious respect : as that of nebuchadnezzar to daniel , dan. . . of abraham to the angels , gen. . . ( . ) to them as absent ; and this is religious honour : and it lyes chiefly in thanksgiving to god for them , and celebrating their memories ; because the honour of divine graces ought to redound chiefly to the giver of them . . relative : from the relation which things have to what we esteem on the account of its own excellency . . civil relation to our friends , or strangers whom we esteem ; and so we set a value on their pictures , on their letters or hand-writing , or any thing belonging to them . . spiritual relation to god and his worship ; and the regard to these he calls reverence . and that lies in these things : ( . ) discrimination from common use . ( . ) consecration to a sacred use . ( . ) suitable vsage of them in regard of that relation . but if you ask wherein the difference of this lies from worship , he saith , from the greatest divines of your church , that ( . ) worship hath a respect to power and superiority ; and that is . civil ; in regard of the power and authority of magistrates . . religious ; in regard of gods peculiar soveraignty over us , and that is twofold , . internal in submission , dependence . . external ; which must be , . such as express our submission and dependence ; as . sacrifice . . solemn invocation . . adoration . . vows . . swearing by him , &c. . they must be peculiar to himself . . from the dictate of nature , as to the peculiarity of gods soverainty . . from the will of god , which appropriates such acts to himself . . from the consent of nations and the christian church . therefore the giving that worship which is due to god , and doth express our subjection to him , to any thing besides him , is violation of the rights of gods soveraignty ; and if it be given to any creature , it receives its denomination from the nature of that creature to which it is given . ( . ) to animate creatures . angels . good. bad. dead men . saints . wicked . brutes of all sorts . ( . ) to inanimate . natural . elements . minerals . plants . artificial ; made to represent the objects of worship , and therefore called images . which is properly idolatry , being the worship of a representation ; but because that word idol is extended to any creature to which the worship proper to god is given , therefore every such kind of worship is in scripture , and by the christian church called idolatry . and by this scheme of dr. st.'s notion of these things , you may easily understand the difference he puts between reverence and worship . r. p. but t. g. saith , the church of rome requires by the terms of communion with her , no more than reverence , or honorary respect to images . p. d. why doth t. g. go about thus to impose on his readers without answering what dr. st. had produced to the contrary ? from three things . . from the decrees of the second council of nice . . from the constant opinion of their most eminent divines , both before , and after the council of trent . . from the publick and allowed practises of their church . . in consecration of images for worship ; with forms prescribed in the roman pontifical . . in supplication before them , with prostrations and all other acts of worship which the heathens used towards them . . in solemn processions with images , with the same kind of pomp and ceremony which was used in heathen rome . and after all this can t. g. have the confidence to say , this is only honorary respect without answering to any one of these particulars , which were purposely alledged to prove the contrary ? r. p. but now sir look to your self , for the patronus bonae fidei knocks all down before him , and proves bowing to the altar practised in the church of england to be worse than popish or egyptian idolatry . p. d. i hope not worse than the power of excommunication , which the same excellent advocate for fanaticks hath bestowed as ill names upon and with as little reason : but such as it is i am prepared to receive it . r. p. the patronus bonae fidei saith , that , however dr. st. wheadled and blinded with preferments ( for that is the meaning of t. g.'s &c. ) endeavours to palliate this kind of adoration , and to vindicate it from the crime of idolatry , yet i doubt not to affirm , that this bowing outvies the idolatry both of egyptians and romanists , not only in horrible iniquity and enormitie , but in madness and folly . f. c. who is this patronus bonae fidei , you speak so much of ? he is a good man i warrant him . he speaks home to the business . p. d. yes if ignorance and confidence doth it : for never did man betray more than your advocate in this saying . f. c. he will prove it i warrant you . p. d. just as you did kneeling at the communion to be idolatry ; if so well . but first for the roman idolatry . r. p. it is not , saith he , so much madness in them to adore the lord jesus under the species of bread , as it is an error in them to believe transubstantiation . but it is an hypochondriacal madness , and giddy-brained stupidity for men to perform adoration towards that place , where christ is no more present than any where else , and where neither the table , nor altar , nor any thing that is set upon the table ( unless perchance a clean towel , two books richly bound , or a pair of candlesticks with two candles in them , not to be lighted , till their minds be quite drunk with popery ) represent either christ or his image . a fanatical adoration he calls it , without any object . p. d. call you this proving ? it is rather raving and foaming at the mouth . this is such biting as may endanger an hydrophobia . there is no arguing with such a man , but in a dark room and under good keepers . but that you may take no advantage by his sayings ; how can it be idolatry without an object ? i.e. idolatry without an idol . but can there be no object of worship but what is visible ? what doth he worship himself ? or rather whom do his clients the fanaticks worship ? nothing ? because not a visible object . is not adoration a part of worship ? if not , it is no idolatry to give it to an image . if it be , then bowing to an invisible object in a place dedicated to divine worship is giving to god that worship , which being given to an image makes it idolatry . i pray sir do you answer for him . f. c. i understand you not . p. d. i thought so . but i will endeavour to make you understand me . is the bowing down to an image idolatry ? f. c. yes , without all doubt . p. d. is not idolatry giving to a creature the worship that is due to god ? f. c. yes . p. d. how can that be giving to a creature the worship due to god ; if it be not lawful to give this worship to god which you give to the creature ? f. c. i know not what you mean. p. d. not yet ? is not adoration of an image , idolatry ? f. c. yes , i told you so once already . p. d. then adoration is to be given to god. how else can the giving it to a creature make it idolatry ? f. c. i do not well understand you ; but as far as i can guess , you speak of bodily worship ; but alas ! we know that god must be worshipped in spirit and in truth . p. d. who denies that ? but observe what follows , then no man is guilty of idolatry , that doth not worship an image in spirit and in truth : but the law forbids bowing down to them and worshipping of them ; do you think that bowing down is meant of the mind or of the body ? f. c. what is it you would have by all these questions ? p. d. no more but this , that it is lawful to give external adoration to the divine majesty . f. c. and what then ? p. d. is it lawful to give god that worship , ( which it is lawful to give absolutely ) in a place set apart for his worship ? f. c. that is a strange question indeed . p. d. see now , what you have brought your self to ; to acknowledge that to be lawful which you so rashly called idolatry . f. c. what is that ? p. d. bowing in the church , in testimony of our adoration of the divine majesty . f. c. that is not it ; but it is bowing to the altar . p. d. who knows best ? those that made the canon or you ? they declare they meant nothing else than what i have said ; and deny any religious worship to be given to the altar . and would not you think it hard for us to accuse you for worshipping your hats in prayer , because you put them before your faces when you pray ; as you do us for worshipping the altar , because we bow towards it ? f. c. but you look towards the altar when you bow . p. d. and are not your eyes upon your hats when you pray ? and is not prayer a part of gods immediate worship ? f. c. but we call it bowing to the altar . p. d. we may as well call yours , praying to the hat. f. c. some do assign the reason of their worship from the communion table , and we never do from our hats . p. d. they do not assign the reason of their worship ; but the reason of that circumstance of it , why that way rather than another ; which they parallel with the jews worshipping of god towards the ark and the cherubims , which yet were no objects of divine worship , either by gods appointment , or the jewish practice , or in the opinion of some of the most learned divines , even of the roman church ; who make the most advantage they can of it ; as dr. st. hath at large proved in his answer to t. g. ; and i do not hear of any reply t. g. hath made to it . r. p. but the patronus bonae fidei saith , the papists have more reason to worship christ on the supposition of transubstantiation , than you have to worship — p. d. what ? speak out . the altar ? we deny it to be any object of worship to us : if he means , than to worship god with external adoration towards the altar , let him do that , which he never yet did , prove what he saith ; viz. that there is more reason to worship christ under the bread on supposition of transubstantiation , than for our giving external adoration to the divine majesty . for to give this adoration to god needs no other supposition but of his infinite majesty and omnipresence ; but to worship christ on the altar under the species of bread , doth not only suppose the truth of one of the most absurd suppositions in the world , that the substance of the bread is changed into the body of christ , and the body of christ is there invisibly present under the species of bread : but it supposes likewise these things . . that the body of christ as united with the species of bread is a proper object of divine adoration : i. e. that these two do make up one entire object of divine worship ; and then it follows that the sacramental species are a partial object of divine adoration , for whatever goes to make up an object entire must have share with it ; which is quite another thing from an accidental connexion , as of a princes robes together with his person ; for no man ever said the princes garments made up with his person an object fit to be kneeled to in token of subjection . but here is an union supposed between christs body and the accidents , and such an union by vertue whereof divine worship is directed to the species of bread , and consequentially to the body of christ as united thereto . . it supposeth , that the body of christ being thus united with the species of bread may receive all that worship which is due to god alone . which is not very easie to prove . because it doth not follow , that where-ever a body is , there those things must be which do not result by necessary concomitancy from the being of a body . for since it doth not follow by vertue of the hypostatical union that where-ever the divinity is , the humane nature of christ must be there also ; how doth it necessarily follow , that where-ever the body of christ is , the divinity is so present as to make that body become an object of divine adoration ? we say the foot is united to the soul as well as the head , but do we therefore say that whatever is in the soul is equally present in the foot as in the head ? as that the foot reasons , considers , directs as the head doth . it is not therefore bare union but the manner of presence , which doth make an object fit for adoration . that presence ought to be ( if not glorious and becoming the divine majesty in that respect ) yet so well attested , as the divinity of christ was in his humane nature , by the voice of angels , by testimony of god himself from heaven , by miracles , by prophecies , &c. but here is nothing like this ; no evidence being given of the divine presence under the elements , neither from sense , nor reason , nor scripture . for the scripture is only pretended to speak of the body of christ , and not of his divinity . r. p. but by vertue of the hypostatical union where-ever the body of christ is , his divine nature must be present too . p. d. that i know very well is commonly said by you ; but i pray consider these two things . ( . ) if the body of christ may be present by reproduction of the same body ; as some of your greatest and latest divines have asserted ; then there is no such necessity of concomitancy of the divinity of christ ; because they say , god may reproduce the same body without all the accidents of it , and consequently without the hypostatical vnion . ( . ) by the same way of concomitancy they may hold the persons of the father and holy ghost to be under the species , and to be there worshipped . for where the body of christ is , there the soul is ; where soul and body is , there the divinity is ; where the divinity is , there the person of the son is ; and where the person of the son is , there the persons of the father and holy ghost are too . r. p. you may account this an absurdity , but we account it none at all : yea some of our divines have said , if the holy trinity were not every where , yet it would be in the eucharist , by vertue of this concomitancy . p. d. i do not now meddle with your opinions ; i only consider the patronus bonae fidei and his brethren , who do look on these as absurdities , and yet are so foolish to say , that our worshipping god towards the altar is more absurd than your worshipping christ on the altar , on supposition of transubstantiation . but why worse than egyptian idolatry , i beseech you ? r. p. the egyptians , saith he , pretended some colour for their idolatry , as than an ape , or a cat , or a wolf , &c. had some participation of the divinity ; but those that bow down to a wooden table are themselves stocks : with much more to that purpose . p. d. is such a man to be endured in a christian common-wealth ( not to say a church , for excommunication he regards not ) who parallels the adoration given only to the divine majesty ( as our church professeth ) with the worship of an ape , or a cat , or a wolf , & c ? nay he makes the egyptian idolatry more reasonable than our worship of god. the only thing that can excuse him is rage and madness ; and therefore i leave him to his keeper . but i pray tell me , was it meer kindness to the church of england which made t. g. to produce all these passages at full length out of the patronus bonae fidei ? or out of pure spite to dr. st. by so often repeating the passage of his being delinitus & occaecatus ? and why in such a place , where he pretends only to give an account of dr. st.'s vain and endless discourses , doth he bring in this at large ? is it only for his comfort to let him see , there is one body at least in the world , more foolish and impertinent than he ? we have seen enough of what t. g. ought not to have done , let us now see what he saith dr. st. ought to have done . r. p. the first thing to be done in a dispute , is to settle the state of the controversie upon its true grounds , by laying down the true notion of the matter in debate ; therefore dr. st. ought in the first place to have given us the true notion of idolatry in the nature of the thing ; and then to have shewn that notion to have agreed to the honour and veneration which the church of rome in her councils declares may be given to the images of christ and the saints : but he chose rather to dazle the eyes of the reader with the false lights of meer external acts , the obscure practice even of wiser heathens , and the clashing of school-divines . p. d. now i hope we are come to something worthy of consideration . i like the method of proceeding very well . and i like dr. st.'s book the better , because i think he pursued the right method , beginning first with the nature of idolatry and divine worship ; and then coming to the first particular of image-worship , which he hath handled with great care and exactness in respect of your councils as well as your practices and school-divines . r. p. it is true , he proposed well at first , but like a preacher that hath patched up a sermon out of his note-book , he names his text , and then takes his leave of it . for , what he was to speak to , was idolatry in the nature of the thing , independently of any positive law , whereas he speaks only of an idolatry forbidden by a positive law ; but if there be no idolatry antecedent to a positive prohibition , the heathens could not be justly charged with idolatry . p. d. in my mind , he did not recede from his text at all , but pursued it closely ; but you are uneasie at his application , and therefore find fault with his handling his text. what could a man speak to more pertinently as to idolatry in the nature of the thing , than to consider , what that is , which is acknowledged to be idolatry both in the heathens and arrians ; what that was which the primitive church accounted idolatry in them ; what opinons those have of god , whom the roman church do charge with idolatry ; wherein the nature of divine worship consists , not only with respect to positive commands , but the general consent of mankind ; did * he not expresly argue from the reason and design of solemn religious worship abstractly from positive laws ? did he not shew † from many testimonies , that the heathens did look on some peculiar rites of divine worship as sacred and inviolable , that they chose rather to dye , than to give them any but a divine object ? it is true , after this , he enquires into the law of god , and what acts of worship he had appropriated to himself ; and was there not great reason to do so ? are we unconcerned in the laws god made for his worship ? in my apprehension , this was the great thing t. g. had to do , to prove that gods law about worship was barely ceremonial , and only respected the jews ; but that we are left to the liberties of the law of nature , about religious worship : but he neither doth this , nor if he had done it , had he overthrown dr st.'s book . for he proves in several places , that the heathens had the same distinctions of soveraign and inferiour worship ; absolute and relative , which are used in the roman church ; and if these do excuse now , they would have excused them , who by scripture and the consent of the christian church are condemned for idolatry . and judge you now , whether dr. st. took leave of his text , whether he did not speak to idolatry in the nature of the thing ? r. p. but he saith , the heathens could not understand the nature and sinfulness of idolatry if not from some law of god ; which is in effect to clear the heathens from idolatry , till that law was delivered to them ; whereas s. paul saith , they had a law written in their hearts , whereby they might understand it ; and dr. st. ought to have shewn wherein the deordination and sinfulness of idolatry did consist antecedently to any positive prohibition ; and till this be done , he can make no parallel between the heathen idolatry and that of the roman church . p. d. i am glad to find any thing that looks like a difficulty , which may give an occasion of farther thoughts about this weighty matter , and of clearing the doctors mind concerning it . herein i shall endeavour to explain these two things . . how far dr. st. doth make the nature and sinfulness of idolatry to depend on the law of god. . wherein the sinfulness of idolatry doth consist abstractly from a positive law. . how far he makes the sinfulness of it to depend on a positive law. . he supposes natural religion to dictate these things . . that god ought to be solemnly worshipped . . that this worship ought to be peculiar to the divine nature in regard of his soveraignty over us , and the infinite distance between him and his creatures . . that the giving this solemn worship which is due to god to any creature , is the invading the rights of his soveraignty . thence he shews from aquinas , that worship is not given to god because he needs it , but that the belief of one god may hereby be confirmed in us by external and sensible acts , which cannot be done unless there be some peculiar acts of his worship . and external worship is a profession of internal ; acts being expressive of our minds as well as words . thence he determines , that idolatry is a sin of the highest nature , because it invades gods peculiar rights ; and implyes blasphemy in it , because it takes away from god the peculiarity of his dominion . are not these arguments drawn from the nature of the thing , and not meerly from a positive law ? . notwithstanding these dictates of natural reason concerning the worship of god , yet he supposes mankind to have been so corrupted as to have lost the sense of the sinfulness of giving divine worship to creatures . which , he saith , they did chiefly on a threefold supposition . ( . ) that god committed the government of the world under him to some inferiour deities . or , ( . ) that god was the soul of the world , and therefore the worship given to the parts of it did redound to him . or ( . ) that external adoration was below him , and that the service due to god was that of our minds , and the other might be given to creatures . . that god saw it necessary to revive the peculiarity of his worship by his law given in the decalogue ; which although given to the jews , was of an eternal and immutable nature , being not built on any reason peculiar to them , but common to all mankind ; and on this account the christian church did look on the same law as obliging all christians ; as the doctour hath proved in several places before cited . . that when the apostles went abroad to reclaim the world from idolatry , they made use of no other notion of it , than what was received among the jews ; and by the reasons on which the law of god was founded , they convinced the world of that sin of idolatry , which by the corruption of mankind , and the custom of the world they had lost the sense of . and this was plainly the meaning of dr. st.'s words to any unprejudiced mind , as appears by laying these things together ; which are all contained in the same discourse . if we say the gentiles had lost the sense of other sins , as it is evident they had , and the apostles made use of the law of god to convince them ; doth it hence follow that the sinfulness of those things did barely depend upon a positive law ? and therefore the notion of idolatry may be said to be new , not as though it were not against the principles of natural religion , but because they had lost the sense of them : so the law of moses was a new law though it revived the law of nature in its moral precepts ; the doctrine of christ was a new doctrine to the world although most agreeable to the principles of natural reason . ( . ) the sinfulness of idolatry according to natural religion consists in these things . ( . ) in taking away the due sense of the distance between god and his creatures : which is a violation of the rights of his soveraignty , and consequently it is crimen laesae majestatis divinae , or treason against the divine majesty . ( . ) in neglecting to give god the worship which was proper to him . and this was the consequent of idolatry ; and not as though the nature of idolatry did lye barely in not giving to god the worship due to him , as t. g. seems to suggest : but when men did accustome themselves to the worship of idols , they grew so fond of their own inventions , that they had five ave maries for one pater noster , and so the worship of god came to be almost lost in the croud of deities which they joyned with him . ( . ) in worshipping bad spirits , instead of good ones ; which craftily insinuated themselves among the idolaters under the pretence of inferiour deities . for so the people still believed them to be good spirits , and their learned men defied all those who said they worshipped any other , as dr. st. hath shewed ; yet the christians proved they were evil , because they received that worship from them , which the good ones would not do . ( . ) in disparaging the divine nature by making images to represent him , ( which suggested mean thoughts of god to their minds , lessening the apprehensions of the greatness of his majesty ) and hoping to please god by worshipping such representations of him . which he thought so dishonourable to himself , that he forbids it by a severe law , and punished the transgressours of it ; and from hence the christian church hath accounted the same thing unlawful to them , because so dishonourable to god. ( . ) in taking away that dependence upon god , which he expects from his creatures . for when they suppose that god hath committed the care of these things to any inferiour beings , they are apt to make their addresses to them more frequently because of a vicinity of nature to them ; and to depend upon them for help in time of need ; which takes off that entire trust in god which is most agreeable to his wisdom , goodness and providence . ( . ) in giving divine worship to vile and wicked men instead of god. this was an aggravation of idolatry , and increased the sinfulness of it ; although the nature of idolatry doth not lye in giving divine worship to bad men , but to any creatures . and in this particular lay the abominable sinfulness of the poetical idolatry among the greeks and romans , which was in this respect worse than of the most barbarous nations we ever read of . ( . ) the more vile the practices , the more mean the submissions , the more gross the errours of idolaters were , the greater was the sinfulness of idolatry . hence the filthy and obscene actions of the eastern , greek and roman idolatries ; the mean submissions and the gross errours of the egyptian idolatries heightned the sinfulness of them . these are the main things wherein the sinfulness of idolatry did consist , abstractly from any positive law. you see how freely i give them to you upon such an invitation , and much good may they do you . if dr. st. had thought t. g. had desired any such thing from him , i do believe he would have added not only a seventh , but an eighth chapter for his sake on such a subject as this , which it is so easie to inlarge upon . but i stop for fear t. g. should think i am only patching up a sermon out of note-books , yet i think i have not taken leave of my text. r. p. did you ever hear of the speaking trumpet ? p. d. what hath the speaking trumpet to do with idolatry ? i am afraid i waked you out of some pleasant dream , you talk so far off from the business . now i think of it , i have found it by the train of thoughts , in mr. hobs his way . text led you to preaching , and preaching to the speaking trumpet , because of the rare invention of the virtuoso to have one parson to preach to a whole county . r. p. no , that is not it . t. g. brings it in on the occasion of this dispute . p. d. doth he truly ? but how comes it in ? as the man brought in hercules into his sermon by head and shoulders ? r. p. t. g. is a man of a great reach ; and therefore he may be allowed to bring in a thing , which another man would never have thought of . p. d. but i pray how ? r. p. you know the virtuoso argued thus , if the speaking trumpet might be made to carry the voice a league , then eight mile about , if eight mile , then round a whole county , and then why not from one nation to another , there being no stop in art ? p. d. this is very ridiculous ; but how doth t. g. apply it ? r. p. to dr. st.'s argument against relative worship ; who saith that by vertue of that , men may worship the sun , the stars , the earth , or any other creature . p. d. and doth not the argument hold ? r. p. no ; t. g. saith , it is like the virtuoso's arguing about the speaking trumpet . p. d. i pray tell how . in my mind t. g. rather imitates the virtuoso's swiming on the table ; for he puffs and blows , and moves all the joynts of his body , but he is on the table still . the difficulty remains just where it was ; and the speaking trumpet takes away none of the force of it . for the parity of reason holds in one case , which it is ridiculous to imagine in the other . r. p. t. g. saith , there is a conformity between it , and the extension of worship to any creature . for , he saith , there is a stop in nature . p. d. how and where ? for why may not i worship god in any creature as well as by an image ? where are the measures and bounds fixed , that thus far we may go and no farther ? why may we not worship trees , and fountains , earth , and water , and the whole host of heaven as well as an image ? if we have due apprehensions of god in our minds as the creator of them , and do not suffer our worship to rest absolutely on the creatures , but intend to carry it at last to god , and to fall only after an inferiour manner upon them . i cannot for my heart find out this stop in nature . for the reason of relative worship as to an image is bare imagination , supposing that person to be present who deserves worship : but in the worship of the creatures , there is a real presence of the divinity , and a certain relation which the creatures have to god ; why therefore may i not worship god in any of his creatures , as well as by an image ? and so the ancient idolatry of the world , which the christian religion rooted out , may by the help of this trick of relative worship be revived again . r. p. you run too fast . for t. g. saith , the creatures ever since sense prevailed against reason , are become like stumbling-blocks to the souls of men , and a snare to the feet of the unwise , to allure and draw them to the worship of them . p. d. and do you think images ( but that they are set so high ) have not more of the nature of stumbling-blocks in them ? are they such immaterial and insensible things , when s. augustine saith , their very fashion and shape is apt to move men more , and the likeness to a living being prevails more on the affections of miserable men to worship them , than their knowledge that they are not living doth to the contempt of them ; as dr. st. observed . r. p. but t. g. adds , that those very divines of the church of rome who do admit the consequence in speculation , and do not condemn the practice of it in philosophical and contemplative men , who consider the creatures purely as the works of god , and as it were behold him present in them ; do notwithstanding utterly condemn the common and promiscuous use of it in the vulgar , as exposing them to manifest danger of being seduced by the tempting beauty and astonishing power of the creatures , to forget the creator and worship them . p. d. what is become of the speaking trumpet now ? and of the stop in nature ? all the danger , it seems , is in the dulness and stupidity of the people . and yet , if i mistake not , t. g. hath provided against this , when he saith , the difference is so great between vulgar heathens and christians , as to the believing in one god the father almighty , maker of heaven and earth , and of all things visible and invisible . if the common people have so firm and settled a notion of this in their minds , they may as easily pass from the scale of creatures to the creatour , as from an image to what is represented by it . is there so much danger they should stop in the creatures ; and none at all they should stop in images ; when himself confesseth , it is idolatry to worship the images themselves ? and since dr. st ▪ hath shewn from their own divines , how many wayes idolatry may be committed in the worship of images . ( . ) if proper latria or divine worship be given to an image , it becomes an idol . nay bellarmine saith , that those who worshipped an image of christ with divine honours , although it were for the sake of christ , and not of the image , did commit idolatry . therefore , he saith , those were condemned for hereticks , who gave divine worship to the image of christ. if then the people happen to give divine worship to an image , although they no not believe it to be so , yet this doth not excuse them from idolatry ; for , saith he , although a man pretend in words , the worship to be relative , or for the sake of god , or christ ; yet it being divine worship , he doth really do it absolutely and for themselves . ( . ) when images are worshipped as true representations of the divine nature . ( . ) when images are worshipped for the sake of any sanctity , vertue or divinity abiding in them . but tell me now , whether common people are not in danger of any of these things , as much at least as of resting in the creatures ? is it not as easie for them to forget the distinction of absolute and relative worship , or to fancy god to be like the images of him ; or to imagine some sanctity , vertue or divinity to be inherent in the images ; as to stop at the creatures and to go no higher ? yea , more than this , have not the common people been charged with doing these things by your own divines ? when they tell us of their madness in the worship of images ; and that there was little or no difference between their worship and that of the heathens ? in some places cited by dr. st. is it possible for any man that observes what the common people do , to imagine that they place no sanctity , vertue or divinity in their images ? when they walk so many miles barefoot to a certain image of our lady ; when they creep upon their bare knees towards it ; when they make formal supplications to the images , with as much ceremony as if the persons they represent were present ; when they look with so much submission and devotion towards them ; when they come with such mighty expectations of relief and help from them ; when they tell stories of so many miracles which have been wrought by them ; nay , when their learned men , who should have more wit or honesty , write books on purpose to heighten these follies and madnesses of the people . can you , with any face say , there is not so much danger in the worship of images , as in the worship of the creatures ? i did not expect , after what dr. st. had represented in this matter , t. g. should have given so wretched an answer as this . for if this were all to keep men from the relative worship of creatures , i dare affirm that most of the fathers arguments against this sort of idolatry were very weak and feeble , and that they did not reach the philosophical and contemplative men ; but only the dull and stupid vulgar ; that there was nothing of real idolatry in their worship of the creatures , but only danger to the common people , and scandal to the weak . name me that christian , who through all the primitive church ever let fall an expression to this purpose . it was idolatry , downright idolatry they charged them with in the worship of the creatures , and not any meer scandalous complyance with the ignorant vulgar . if this had been all they meant , for all that i can see the work of the apostles and primitive christians had been to have informed them only of the true god whom they were to worship in the creatures , and if all the people were once throughly informed of this , all the ancient rites of worship might have continued . they might have still baked cakes to the queen of heaven , and worshipped the whole host of heaven ; they might have continued their devotion to the earth , and fire , and trees and fountains , if they did but direct their worship through them to god. what mean all those sayings of fathers , all those canons of councils , wherein this very manner of worship was condemned for idolatry ? as dr. st. hath in part shewed . speak out gentlemen , and let us know what you think of the primitive church , which so freely condemned this relative worship ; but never imagine that we will be guided by your modern schools , or the doctrine of your church in these things , against the consent of the whole primitive christian church ; whose fathers you must condemn as children , and whose martyrs you must look on as fools , if your doctrine of relative worship be allowed . for most of those who suffered martyrdom might have escaped if they had allowed these principles of relative worship ; no more being required of them , but to do as the rest did , to burn a little incense in obedience to the laws , to make some customary libations before the emperours images , to make the common supplications at the temples of vesta or ceres , or any other of the gods , which the philosophers understood of the several parts of the world : and might they not have done all these things , and referred the worship ultimately to the true god ? i do not think this so trifling a matter as t. g. makes it , but i think the honour of christianity and of the primitive martyrs deeply concerned in it ; and i wish you not to maintain your fooleries upon such principles as reflect dishonour upon christianity it self . r. p. methinks the speaking trumpet hath roused you , and put you into a fit of furious zeal . p. d. no sir , i do assure you . it is the honour i have for christianity which hath made me speak thus warmly ; for i am very unwilling to have the primitive christians to suffer as fools and as weak brethren . r. p. but t. g. saith from vossius , that the gentiles concluded nature it self to be god , and the parts of it also to be deities , and that they forsook god and staid in the worship of nature . p. d. some persons not inferiour to vossius for learning or judgement in these matters , do suppose it to be a great mistake in him to make the gentiles worship inanimate nature for a true god , which say they , is in plain terms to make them atheists : for then they must own nothing but meer matter in the world . and to what purpose men should worship an inanimate senseless being , it is very hard to understand ; it is therefore much more probable that they did own some inferiour deities over the several parts of the world , and one supream which passed through all ; whom they did worship in and by his creatures . but i am not now to give an account of the pagan idolatry , of which we shall have occasion to discourse afterwards . that which i insist upon is , that those who had a right notion of god might upon the principles of relative worship have justified themselves in doing the same things which the heathens did , provided their intentions were directed aright ; and consequently that there was no necessity of taking away the heathen rites as idolatrous in reference to the parts of the world , but only of acquainting them more fully with the notion of god , and the nature of relative worship . r. p. but t. g. still stands to it , that there is more danger in worshipping the creatures , than in the worship of images ; because the creatures are not so apparently representative of god , as an image is of the person represented by it , which carries the thoughts presently and effectually to him . but the other needs a great deal of discourse to discover the analogy they bear to the creator , and the dependence they have of him for their very being : yet so , that from the greatness and beauty of the creatures the maker of them may proportionably be seen . p. d. to this dr. st. gave a full answer , when he said , that in an object of worship , we are not so much to consider the quickness of representation , as the perfections represented . although therefore an image may carry ones mind sooner to the thing represented , than the creatures ; yet the one is so infinite a disparagement to the divine nature in comparison of the other , that there is far greater danger upon t. g.'s principles in one than in the other . i will make this plain to you by this instance . suppose the image of a venerable old man with pontifical habits set up to represent god almighty , as hath been usual in the church of rome ; and one man worships god by this ; another he looks upon the sun as a wonderful work of god , and he worships god as manifesting himself in the sun ; the question now is , whether there be more danger in worshipping god by an image , or by the sun ? i say by an image . for ( . ) t. g. confesses that images are unlawful objects of worship , which are conceived to be proper likenesses of the divinity ; now i appeal to your self , whether men are not more apt to take the image of a man for a likeness of the divinity , than any of gods creatures ? besides ( . ) images do not represent any thing that deserves our worship ; but only lineaments and figures , the work of painters and carvers ; but the creatures represent to our minds infinite power , wisdom and goodness , which are the greatest motives of divine worship . for as dr. st. hath said , the least work of nature infinitely exceeds the greatest of art in curiosity , beauty , strength , proportion ▪ and every thing that can discover wisdom and power . ( . ) the presence of god in an image is only by a fiction of the mind , a man fancying the true object of worship to be really present ; but in the creatures there is a real divine presence . and where there is greater reason for worship , there is surely the less danger . ( . ) if the greater excellency of the creature make the danger greater , then as dr. st. argued , where there is less excellency there is less danger ; and consequently there must be less danger in worshipping the inanimate creatures than animate , and bruits than men , and mere moral men than saints ; because the danger must increase as the excellency doth : and consequently the egyptians were more excuseable in their worship than you . and by this reason there was less danger in worshipping the tail of the asse our saviour rode upon , than st. peter , or his pretended successor . ( . ) there is less danger of worship where the representation is more divine and spiritual , than where it is more gross and corporeal ; but the representation of god is much more divine and spiritual by his creatures than by images . and therefore cardinal lugo said , if a wooden image may be worshipped for the sake of the exemplar , much more such a lively image of god as man is . and thus upon this principle of relative worship all the several sorts of idolatry which were used among the heathens may be revived , and set up with as fair pretences at least as image-worship . r. p. t. g. saith , if dr. st. can discern god so easily in his creatures , as a mans mind is carried from the image to the prototype , he believes he is one of the most admirable persons in the meletetiques in the whole world. p. d. what is this but trifling in weighty matters ? i would allow t. g. as much scope for his wit , as he would desire ; provided it become the gravity of the subject . what is there in these meletetiques , but what is the duty of every good man , to see god in his works ? which all persons do who are not atheists ; and is this a thing to be exposed to scorn and derision ? r. p. but t. g. takes it for that part of mystical theology which inessences the soul with god. p. d. alas for his ignorance ! that he cannot distinguish between natural and mystical theology . i always took the seeing the great evidences of gods power , wisdom and goodness in his creatures to be natural theology : and is it not possible to discover god in his works without inessencing the soul with god ? this is too mean and low for t. g. ; surely you father this upon him . for i can hardly believe this and many other passages you mention , to be written by him ; or else t. g. hath helped me to another piece of meletetiques ; for i discover him much better in his works than i did before ; but with no great advantage either as to his wisdom or goodness . r. p. you may satisfie your self if you please that i ▪ do not wrong him ; for here 's the book ; and in the next page he compares dr. st. with one who said christ might be better represented by a cow than a crucifix , and another who said he detested the image of christ crucified . p. d. for what good end was dr. st. joyned with these ? ( supposing the stories true , which i hardly believe ) hath he ever said any such thing ? or that tended that way ? it is the worship he writes against , and not the bare representation of christ crucified . t. g. was not to seek for dr. st.'s mind in this matter , for these are his words . i do not say there is as great incongruity in representing the humane nature of christ , as there was in representing the infinite nature of god , but i say there is as great incongruity still in supposing an image of whatsoever it be , can be the proper object of divine worship . for the humanity of christ is only capable of receiving adoration from us , as it is hypostatically united to the divine nature ; and if the humane nature of christ be not , what then is the image of it ? what union is there between the divine nature and a crucifix ? all that can be said is , that imagination supplyes the union , and christ is supposed to be present by representation . but ( . ) this overthrows all measures and bounds of worship , and makes it lawful to worship any creature with respect to god. ( . ) it contradicts the argument of s. paul , for then god may be worshipped with the work of mens hands . ( . ) 't is contrary to the sense and practice of the primitive church which interpreted the second commandment to hold against all images set up for wo●ship , as well those proper to christians , as others among jews or gentiles . why did not t. g. rather answer these arguments , than make odious comparisons of him , with viret and beza ? but there is a reason for all things if a man can hit on it . r. p. but t. g. wonders dr. st. should discover god so easily in his creatures , while he saith elsewhere , the creatures can give no greater than moral certainty of the being of god himself . p. d. it was well thought upon , and deserves an answer ; because t. g. is not the only person who hath cavilled at this . if dr. st. by moral certainty doth mean only a bare probability , there were some colour for the objection , but in the very place to which t. g. referrs , he asserts the highest degree of actual certainty : and that which he calls moral certainty , he saith is , a firm , rational , and undoubted certainty . why then may not dr. st. discover god in his creatures , since he asserts so great an assurance of gods being their creatour ? r. p. but why then doth he call it moral certainty ? p. d. it is meer cavilling , when a mans mind is understood , to be quarrelling at his terms ; especially if they be such , as others have used before him , and seem most agreeable to the nature of the evidence . for we may conceive these several sorts of certainty . . a certainty of principles : which is that , i suppose , they call metaphysical certainty . for that was the proper office of metaphysicks , to establish certain general principles which might be of vse to all other sciences : such as those , that both parts of a contradiction cannot be true of the same thing : and that , of every thing , either the one , or the other part of a contradiction is true . these are such principles , * of which aristotle saith , it is folly in any man to go about to demonstrate them , any otherwise than by shewing the absurdity of him that denyeth them : they are such , themistius saith , which every man hath by nature , and without which he cannot be supposed to learn any thing ; and these are called self-evident and indemonstrable principles ; and axioms ; which need no more than the bare representation of them to the mind , as that the whole is greater than a part . if you take away equal things from equal , the remainder is equal . for whatever depends upon induction , or needs any medium to prove it , more than the bare perception of terms , was never by any philosopher accounted an indemonstrable and self-evident principle . much less were identical propositions taken for first principles , by any man that ever understood what principles were ; as it were very easie to prove , if there were occasion for it . i have but two things to add concerning this kind of certainty . . that the certainty of our own beings , is equal to this certainty of principles . it being a thing of natural and immediate evidence . for the very doubting as well as thinking proves the certainty of the being of that which doubts . and where there is such evident perception as of first principles , and our own beings , the assent is as necessary as for the ballance to incline where the greatest weight lyes . . that self-evident principles have very little influence upon our knowledge of other things ; and therefore a late philosopher observes that even that fundamental principle , that it is impossible the same thing should be , and not be at the same time , is of little or no vse for finding out of truth . and supposing the first principle of the certainty of our own beings to be granted the cartesians ( which no man who thinks can deny them ) yet i do not see how the truth of other things conveyed by our senses can be drawn from thence ; the one being an absolute certainty , the other only depending on a supposition which carryes not equal evidence along with it : which is the next kind . . a certainty by sense ; or upon supposition , that we are not so framed as not to be deceived in the most plain and clear perceptions of sense . this is that i suppose they mean by physical certainty . it implyes no contradiction we should be so deceived , and consequently it is short of the first kind of certainty . but withall the supposition is so just and reasonable , that such a mans understanding may be justly questioned , who questions the plain evidence of sense as to light , and day , and bodies , &c. and all mankind in spight of their most subtle arguments do trust their senses : and epictetus well said , that if he and two or three more were servants to a sceptick , they would make him hang or starve himself if he did not change his opinion . and galen saith , the evidence of sense needs no demonstration ; for all those things which are evident to sense are to be believed for themselves . . a certainty by reason , or of deducing something not known from that which is known . which is so evident in mathematical demonstrations that no man who understands the terms , and attends to the proof can forbear his assent . aristotle did attempt to bring the way of reasoning in other things to mathematical certainty ; which was the great design of his logick . to this end he begins with the explication of simple terms , and so he proceeds to propositions , and then to the joyning of two of these so together that from thence a third thing may follow by vertue of some middle term wherein they agree . but because the conclusion may not necessarily follow , where the manner of reasoning was true , therefore in order to demonstration , he supposes two sorts of principles . . axioms , or common principles received by all that understand them . . positions ; which are twofold : . suppositions , or postulata . . definitions . but after all , he grants that only such things are capable of demonstration which have a certain and immutable cause . and he puts a difference between a necessary conclusion , and a demonstration . the one depending on the form of syllogism , the other upon the necessity of the cause . but in demonstrative syllogisms aristotle doth not require some degree of necessity but the highest , when the connexion between the subject and predicate is so great , that one cannot be defined without the other ; so that logical demonstration must be of an inseparable property , and by the most immediate and necessary cause . but very few things in the world are capable of such demonstrations , by reason of our ignorance of the essential properties and immediate causes of things ; and those instances which are brought either by aristotle or his commentators are about such things where demonstration was least needful , and tend very little to the improvement of our knowledge . . a certainty which supposes some moral principles , and proceeds upon them . such as these , that every intelligent being acts for some end : that it is not the interest of mankind to deceive one another : that there are some things fit to be chosen , and others to be avoided : that circumstances vary the nature of actions : that where comparisons are made , the greatest good and the least evil are to be chosen . such as these , i call moral principles : which have self-evidence in them to any man that understands the terms . and whatever doth necessarily follow from these principles may be justly called a moral demonstration . . a certainty which supposes an immediate divine assistance to preserve the mind from errour , and this is infallible certainty . for the mind of man being of it self lyable to mistake in its apprehension and judgement of things , nothing can preserve it from a possibility of errour , but immediate assistance from god , who cannot be deceived and will not deceive . these things being premised , we are now to enquire what kind of certainty that is , which we have concerning the principles of religion . . for the principles of natural religion . you are to consider what kind of adversary dr. st. had to deal with , viz. one who pleaded for an infallible certainty , as that infallibility doth imply divine assistance , as necessary in order to an obligation to assent . against this dr. st. objects , that the main foundations of all religion , which are the being of god and immortality of the soul , were not capable of this kind of proof . because this very notion of infallibility doth suppose that which he would prove , viz. that there is a god who must give this assistance . but at the same time he yields , that we have as great evidence and certainty , as humane nature is capable of , of such a being as god is , from the consideration of his works : which being neither from mathematical demonstrations , nor supernatural infallibility he called moral certainty . which he might do from these grounds . . because the force of the argument from the creatures depends upon some moral principles . viz. from the suitableness and fitness of things to the wisdom of an intelligent and infinite agent , who might from thence be inferred to be the maker of them . it being unconceivable that meer matter should ever produce things in so much beauty , order and usefulness as we see in every creature ; in an ant or a fly as much as in the vast bodies of the heavens . . because they do suppose some moral dispositions in the persons who do most readily and firmly assent to these truths . for although men make use of the highest titles for their arguments , and call them infallible proofs , mathematical demonstrations , or what they please ; yet we still see men of bad minds will find something to cavil at , whereby to suspend their assent ; which they do not in meer metaphysical notions , or in mathematical demonstrations . but vertuous and unprejudiced minds do more impartially judge , and therefore more readily give their assent : having no byas to incline them another way . although therefore the principles be of another nature , and the arguments be drawn from idea's , or series of causes , or whatever medium it be , yet since the perverseness of mens will may hinder the force of the argument , as to themselves , the certainty might be called moral certainty . . as to the christian faith. so he grants , . that there are some principles relating to it which have metaphysical certainty in them ; as , that whatever god reveals is impossible to be false , or as it is commonly expressed , though improperly , is infallibly true. . that there is a rational certainty , that a doctrine confirmed by such miracles as were wrought by christ and his apostle must come from god : that being the most certain criterion of divine revelation . . that there was a physical certainty of the truth of christs miracles and resurrection from the dead , in the apostles who were eye-witnesses of them . . that there was an infallible certainty in the apostles delivering this doctrine to the world , and writing it for the benefit of the church in all ages . . that we have a moral certainty of the matters of fact , which do concern the doctrine , the miracles , and the books of scripture : which is of the same kind with the certainty those had of christs doctrine and miracles , who lived in mesopotamia , at that time ; which must depend upon the credibility of the witnesses who convey these things , which is a moral consideration , and therefore the certainty which is taken from it may be properly called moral certainty . of which there being many degrees , the highest is here understood , which any matter of fact is capable of . and now i pray tell me , what reason hath there been for all this noise about moral certainty ? r. p. t. g. owns that the dr. in other places doth acknowledge a true certainty of the principles of religion ; but , he saith , he can say and unsay , without retracting , with as much art and ease as any man he ever read . p. d. i had thought unsaying had been retracting . but dr. st. saith as much in those very places t. g. objects against , as in those he allows . only t. g. delights in cavilling above most authors i have ever read . r. p. but doth not dr. st. allow a possibility of falshood notwithstanding all this pretence of certainty ? p. d. whatever is true , is impossible to be false ; and the same degree of evidence any one hath of the truth of a thing , he hath of the impossibility of the falshood of it : therefore he that hath an undoubted certainty of the truth of christianity , hath the same certainty that it is impossible it should be false . and because possibility and impossibility are capable of the same distinctions that certainty is , therefore according to the nature and degrees of certainty is the possibility or impossibility of falshood . that which is metaphysically certain is so impossible to be false , that it implyes a contradiction to be otherwise : but it is not so in physical certainty , nor in all rational certainty , nor in moral : and yet , whereever any man is certain of the truth of a thing , he is proportionably certain that it is impossible to be false . r. p. this only relates to the person , and not to the evidence ; is there any such evidence of the existence of a deity , as can infallibly convince it to be absolutely true , and so impossible to be false ? p. d. i do not doubt , but that there are such evidences of the being of god , as do prove it to any unprejudiced mind impossible to be otherwise . and t. g. had no reason to doubt of this , from any thing dr. st. had said , who had endeavoured so early to prove the being of god , and the principles of christian faith ; before he set himself to consider the controversies which have happened in the christian church . t. g. therefore might well have spared these reflections , in a debate of so different a nature ; but that he was glad of an opportunity to go off from the business , as men are , that know they are not like to bring it to a good issue . r. p. t. g. confesseth this is a digression ; but he promises to return to the matter ; and so he does i assure you , for he comes to the second thing , which , he saith , the dr. ought to have done , viz. to have shewed how the notion of idolatry doth agree to the doctrine of the church of rome in her councils . p. d. it is a wonder to me , you should think him defective in this , when he shews that there are two things from whence the sense of the roman church is to be taken ; . from the definitions of councils . . from the practice of the church . . from the definitions of councils . and here * he entred upon the consideration of what that worship was , which was required to be given to images : and shewed from the words of the council , and from the testimony of the most eminent divines of the roman church , that it was not enough to worship before images , and to have an intention to perform those external acts ; but there must be an inward intention to worship the images themselves ; and that the contrary doctrine was esteemed little better than downright heresie . . from the practice of the church . for he shews many of your best divines went upon this principle , that god would not suffer his church to err ; and therefore they thought the allowed practice of the church sufficient for them to defend those things to be lawful which they saw generally practised . and from hence he makes it appear that the church of rome hath gone beyond the council of nice in two things . . in making and worshipping images of god and the b. trinity , which was * esteemed madness and pagan idolatry in the time of the second council of nice ; and is justified by the modern divines of the church of rome from the general practice of their church . . in giving the worship of latria to images ; † which was condemned by the council of nice ; and notwithstanding is defended by multitudes of divines in the roman church , from the allowed practice in the worship of the cross ; both before and after the council of trent . after which he enquires at large into the publick offices , and commended devotions of that church in respect to images , and from thence he * proves that . as to consecration of images for worship , . as to the rites of supplication to them ; . as to pompous procession with them , the modern church of rome doth not fall short of the practice of pagan rome . and do you think all this is not applying the notion of idolatry home to the roman church ? when , . he shews by the principles of the second council of nice , the modern practices of the church of rome are chargeable with idolatry . . that the practices agreeable with that council were charged with idolatry by the western church in the council of francford , not from any mistake of their meaning , but because they looked on the worship then decreed to be proper adoration . r. p. but t. g. saith , if the worship defined by the council of nice were inferiour worship , and not latria , as dr. st. confesseth , then nothing can be clearer than that it was not the worship due to god , and consequently the church of rome cannot be chargeable with idolatry from any thing contained in that decree . p. d. will t. g. never understand the difference between the intention of the person and the nature of the act ? they might declare it to be only inferiour worship , but the council of francford took it to be proper adoration which was due only to god. and if that councils judgement must stand ; all those in the church of rome who give latria to the cross , must be guilty of idolatry . r. p. doth not the church of england allow bowing to the altar , which if the altar had any sense would think were done to it ; as t. g. saith , he was certainly informed of a countrey fellow who being got near the altar in his majesties chapel , thought all the congies had been made to him , and so returned congy for congy . and if bowing may be used out of religious respect to the altar , why not kneeling , or prostration , or fixing our eyes in time of prayer , or burning incense or lights before the images of christ and his saints : but how can dr. st. purge the church of england from idolatry in that practice , when he saith , that any image being made so far the object of divine worship , that men do bow down before it , ( and he supposes the same will hold for any other creature ) it doth thereby become an idol , and on that account is forbidden in the second commandment ? p. d. what would t. g. have done , had it not been for this practice of bowing towards the altar ? when yet he cannot but know that the practice of it is not enjoyned by our church , for the canon leaves it at liberty ; if the church of rome did the same about the worship of images , the parallel would hold somewhat better . but the church of rome declares religious worship is to be given to images , and our church declares that none is to be given to the altar , and doth not this make an apparent difference ? if the countrey fellow standing without the rails fancied the congies made to himself ; what would he have done , if he had stood within an image of our lady , and seen all the courtship that had been used towards her by some of her devoted servants and slaves ; when he beheld the bare knees bleeding , the tears trickling , the breast knocking , the eyes scarce lifted up to shew the greater reverence and humility towards the image , what could he have thought , but that he was shut up within the bowels of the goddess they worshipped ? whereas if the countrey fellow had gone up into the court , and seen the ancient servants make their reverences after dinner in the presence chamber , he would soon have been better informed ; if some of the old courtiers had told him , it was the ancient custome of the court to make their reverences in all chambers of presence , and from thence when they went into his majesties chapel they used the same custome out of reverence to god almighty whose presence-chamber they accounted the chapel to be . what is all this to giving religious worship to the altar ? wherein the force of all t. g. saith must lye . r. p. but you do bow before the altar , as we do before images . p. d. i utterly deny that . for your church declares bowing before images without an intention to worship the images is next to heresie , ( if we are to take the sense of your councils from their own words and the explication of divines ; ) you explode their doctrine who say , that we are only to worship god before them . and is there no difference between the acts of these two men as to images themselves ? the one declares that he looks on no religious worship as due to an image , but it serves him only to put him in mind of him who is the proper object of worship , and he never intends by any act of his to worship the image it self : another saith , the church requires images to be worshipped , and for my part i think my self bound to do what the church requires , and therefore it is my intention to give worship not barely to the object represented , but to the very image it self , although it be on the account of its representation . and the latter dr. st. hath shewed to be the only allowed sense in the church of rome , and the other rejected either as heretical or next to it . which t. g. never so much as once takes notice of . but however this doth not reach our case ; for we believe the second commandment to be still in force , which is express and positive against all worship of images , and bowing down to them , but that which was lawful among the jews , notwithstanding that precept , viz. to worship god towards the mercy seat , is still lawful among christians , viz. to worship god alone , but towards the altar . and thus i hope t. g. will at last be brought a little better to understand the sense of our church in this practice , and how far it is from being a parallel with your worship of images . r. p. t. g. finds great fault with dr. st. 's citation out of card. lugo , about submission to images , because he left out aliquis , and potest dici , and i tell you , he makes a huge outcry about it , and fills up several pages with it . p. d. doth he truly ? it was a great sign he wanted matter to fill up his book . but i pray on what occasion was this passage brought in ? it may be that will give us some light into this matter . r. p. t. g. referrs to the page , but he never mentions the occasion . it is such a page . p. d. let us see , what dr. st. was proving in that place . it was , that by the council of nice as it is explained by the divines of the roman church , true and real worship is to be given to images ; and for this he produces the several testimonies of suarez , medina , victoria , catharinus , naclantus , bellarmine , soto , velosillus , pujol , tannerus , ysambertus , bassaeus , sylvius , arriaga , and at last card. lugo . if the thing be not proved , which he designed , why is card. lugo alone produced ? if it be proved , why is card. lugo produced at all ? r.p. because he left out aliquis and dici potest . p. d. but suppose the other be sufficient to express his concurrence with the rest , what unfairness is there in that , to shorten his words when he layes no weight upon the manner , but upon the thing ? had dr. st. charged lugo with holding greater submission than the rest , and then left out the qualifying expressions , he had done him injury . but he knew lugo meant no more than the rest , and produced him for no other purpose . if there be but any inward affection carried to the image , which may be called a certain kind of submission to the image , it is all one to dr. st.'s purpose ; which was only to prove , as he saith , in the same page , from the acts of the council , and the judgement of their learned and eminent divines , that by the decree of the nicene council such true and real worship is to be given to images as is terminated upon the images themselves . did these testimonies prove this , or did they not ? if they did not ; why did not t. g. discover them all ? if they did ; why doth he so vainly cavil , about some thing impertinent to the main business , in the very last of all ? so that , after all this cry , there is very little wool , unless it be that which is made of goats hair . r. p. but this tends to breed an impression in the reader , that the inward affection card. lugo required was of giving submission to an image as superiour ; because in another place he quotes the same author for making cultus to signifie reverence towards superiours . p. d. but doth not the cardinal say so ? r. p. t. g. saith nothing to the contrary , which i am sure he would have done , if he had not . p. d. well then ; lugo makes worship to be a reverence towards superiours ; but he saith , that true worship is due to images . and is not this making the image superiour ? r. p. i thought where i should have you ; but t. g. hath explained lugo's meaning from himself . p. d. let me hear it as t. g. that candid and ingenuous dealer hath it . r. p. . he saith , when we worship an image , the inward affection is not carried to the image , after the same manner it is to the prototype ; for we worship the prototype absolutely , i. e. for its own proper excellency ; but the image only with a relative worship , i. e. for the excellency not of the image it self , but of the prototype , which kind of worship he affirms to be far inferiour to the other , which is absolute . . we have not the same inward submission towards the image , which we have towards the prototype ; for we submit our selves to the prototype , acknowledging it to be more excellent than our selves , and superiour to us , which kind of submission we cannot prudently conceive to belong to an image ; nor indeed any at all , by which we submit our selves to it , preferring it before us . . the sole external act of kissing or bowing is not so carryed to the image but that some inward affection also goes along with it , which he saith , may be called also some kind of affection of submission ; by which he means an affection of submitting our selves to the image ; for as much as the act of the will from which it proceeds is an affection of performing those acts about their images , which we are wont to exercise towards our superiours . p. d. now i hope , we have the cardinals true meaning . from whence i desire you to observe . . that the difference he puts between the worship of the image and the prototype lyes in the inward estimation of the excellency of the one above the other ; which is as much as to say , that he doth really think there is more excellency in christ himself than in a crucifix . which deserves a special remark ; especially being made by a cardinal . when one might venture to say , that there is scarce an idolater so sottish in the world , but will acknowledge his deity to be much better than the image of him ; and that he worships one for his own excellency , and the other only out of respect to him . . he acknowledges , that all those acts whereby we express reverence towards superiours may be used towards images , as bowing , kneeling , prostration , &c. . that there is some kind of inward affection which may be called a certain kind of affection of submission going along with these external acts. and doth not all this amount to true and real worship ? which was the thing dr. st. designed to prove . for here , without exception , all those acts whereby our reverence towards superiours is expressed , may be used to images ; i. e. all tokens of submission to them , and an inward affection of some kind , which may be called affection of submission . by which we find it yielded to us that all external acts of adoration may be given to images , provided , that the inward affection be carryed after a different manner to the prototype and to the image ; which no idolater in the world , if maimonides may be believed , would ever deny : if they believed any other gods besides their idols , as he saith , there were none but did . so that card. lugo upon fair ground gives up all peculiarity of any external acts of divine worship ; and for all that i can see , may sacrifice to an image , or offer up the host to it , on the same reasons that they make their prostrations before it . and he understood the consequence of his own doctrine so well , that he doth not seem to boggle at it on the account of adoration . but as long as t. g. yields that cardinal lugo doth allow all external acts of submission to images , and such an inward affection as to make that submission sincere and real , dr. st. hath all which his heart could desire from this testimony of lugo . r. p. but all this amounts to no more , t. g. saith from him , but that the prototype deserves to be treated honourably , not only in it self , but in all things which have connexion with it , as an image or the like . p. d. that is , god may be worshipped in any creature ; and any act of adoration may be performed towards it , if it have a respect to him : whether by a real or imaginary presence . which takes away the distinction of divine worship as it is applied to outward acts , and all necessary discrimination between the worship we give to god and to his creatures ; and if this be for the honour of his soveraignty and dominion over us , let the world judge . r. p. after all this , t. g. saith , that dr. st. agrees with cardinal lugo in the thing , although he quarrels with him about the words . p. d. that is news indeed . how doth t. g. make that out ? r. p. because he saith from aquinas , that although no irrational or inanimate being be capable of that real excellency to deserve any honour from us for its own sake ; yet on the account of a relation to divine things they may deserve a different regard and usage from other things . p. d. this is true ; but he immediately distinguishes from st. augustin between the peculiarity of use belonging to the sacred utensils , and the worship given to images . r. p. that is no matter how he distinguishes , as long as the consequence holds from one to the other . for if a religious respect be due to sacred places and things on the account of their relation to god , and an inward intention of the mind to express it towards them by an outward token of submission , as bowing to the altar , it comes to the same thing which cardinal lugo pleads for to an image , so that if one be idolatry , the other must be so too . so that t. g. concludes very triumphantly that by these edge-tools , viz. school-distinctions dr. st. hath cut the throat of his own cause . and then he brings in the patronus bonae fidei again . p. d. methinks another writing of the same worthy author had been much more proper , called jugulum causae . but is it possible for t. g. not to apprehend the difference of these things ? i will once more endeavour to make it plain to you . the reverence to sacred places and things differs from the relative worship of images in these things . . in the acts belonging to them . for this i need only to repeat dr. st.'s words . is there no difference between a religious respect ( if i may so call it ) to sacred places and things , and all the most solemn acts of adoration which were ever given to images by the most sottish idolaters ? such as kneelings before them , prostrations , praying with their eyes fixed upon them , as though they were speaking to them , burning incense and lights before them , which are as great testimonies of worship as ever were used by the greatest and most sottish idolaters . and here cardinal lugo allows all external acts of submission to images ; whereas in the other case , discrimination is all that is contended for , out of reverence to them . as for bowing towards the altar , it hath been so often answered before , that i shall not repeat . . in the reason of worship . for if the reason assigned for the worship of images be peculiar to them , then it cannot hold for all sacred things and places . now the reason of the worship of images is representation of the prototype as present to the fancy of him that worships ; but this cannot hold for the sacred vtensils and places which have their honour for the sake of the use they are dedicated to . thus if images in churches were appointed only for use without any worship to be given to them , it would come much nearer to a parallel , than they can do now , when they are consecrated and set up on purpose for adoration ; as they are continually in the roman church . . in the distinction the law of god makes between them . for when it most severely prohibits the worship of images , it not only allows but commands the reverencing gods sanctuary ; and the consecrating sacred vessels for the use of the temple . so that where the law distinguisheth we have reason to do it too : and so the christian church did , when it looked on the worship of images as unlawful , yet they did shew respect and honour to sacred things and places : and honour is all they are capable of as st. augustine saith , but no worship doth belong to them . so that these edge-tools do no execution at all but upon t. g.'s images ; which could never have been framed without them , and yet are destroyed by them . r. p. you think to escape about the doctor 's unfaithful reporting the sense of authors with this one testimony of cardinal lugo ; but you are deceived , i have another ready for you of gregory nyssen . p. d. another ! i expected hundreds upon t. g.'s outcries . when he saith , the citations are many and long , and out of authors of all nations , and all ages , and all religions . what! but another ? r. p. you would have t. g. write an answer as big as foxes acts and monuments , but you are deceived , he is wiser than so . for he hath a particular aversion to a great book upon one subject . if he can discover four or five citations faulty , that will take away the reputation of all the rest . p. d. a very short way i confess . methinks one or two may serve ; and save candle and firing , and waste-paper . nay one single testimony may do it , with an end of an old latine verse tacked to it , crimine ab uno — especially such a one as this of cardinal lugo . but , however let us hear that of gregory nyssen . r. p. it is about the arians being charged with idolatry : which is brought in with a great deal of pomp among other testimonies , to shew that the arians were charged with idolatry for the worship they gave to christ , whom they acknowledged to be a creature , from thence to parallel their worship with that of the church of rome to the saints . p. d. i am glad to hear but one of those testimonies challenged ; for if that be given up , there are enough remaining to prove his design : which you mightily mistake , if you think it was only to parallel your worship of saints with the arians idolatry . for this is never so much as mentioned by dr. st. ; but he names several considerable advantages which are gained by it in this subject of idolatry . . that there may be idolatry where the true god is owned , and worshipped , as he was no doubt among the arians ; from whence it follows , that the nature of idolatry doth not consist in giving soveraign worship to a creature , without respect to the creator . which will be of use to us in the debate about the pagan idolatry . . that relative latria being given to a creature is idolatry , for notwithstanding they looked on christ as the express image of god ; yet because they gave divine worship to him , supposing him to be a creature , they were charged with idolatry . . that making god the fountain and original of those excellencies for which any creature is worshipped doth not excuse from idolatry . for the arians were guilty who supposed all the excellencies of christ to be derived from god. . that no distinction of doulia and latria doth excuse from idolatry ; for the fathers make the giving doulia to christ to be idolatry . . that the notion of an idol is so far from being a meer imaginary figment or chimera , that it was attributed by the fathers to the most excellent being , even to christ himself , when divine worship was given to him as a creature . these are matters of great moment , if they hold good ; doth he pass all these by , only to fall upon one single testimony ? if he doth , it is a shrewd sign , though he cried out of gregory nyssen , yet he was pinched somewhere else . well ; but what is this horrible crime about gregory nyssen ? hath he brought him under an index expurgatorius ? hath he falsified his words and corrupted the text ? or hath he wilfully altered his sense and meaning ? hath he done it in all the quotations out of him , or only in one ? whatever it is , let us have it . r. p. it is in the citation out of his oration de laudibus basilii . p. d. but the dr. hath three or four more out of the same author . it seems they stand well enough . hath not the dr. truly cited his words ? r. p. yes , t. g. saith , as to the general truly enough . p. d. what is the fault then ? r. p. that he doth not add the words that follow , wherein he shews what kind of worship that was which the arians gave to christ ; viz. not only to worship and serve him , but also to six hopes of salvation in a creature and to expect judgement from it . and was it not neatly done of the doctor to wrap up all this in those short words , the devil perswaded men to return to the worship of the creature ? which is a laconism not observed by him on other occasions : but it was here done on purpose to conceal from the reader the apparent difference between the worship of saints in the church of rome , and the arians worship of christ. p. d. i am glad , it is out at last , after so much straining . see how much choler there is in it ! indeed , it might have done him much harm , if he had kept it in any longer . but i wonder the laconick gentleman doth complain of shortness . do you think the laconian in boccalini would have made such a noise for missing a page or two in guicciardins war of pisa ? do you in earnest think dr. st. should take such pains to conceal that which every one knows , that the arians fixed their hopes of salvation on christ , and expected him to come to judgement ? what wonderful discovery is this , which t. g. hath made ? nay dr. st. himself takes notice of this objection , that they did give a higher degree of worship to christ than any do to saints ; and returns this answer to it ; that they did only give a degree of worship proportionable to the degrees of excellency supposed to be in him far above any other creatures whatsoever . but still that worship was inferiour to that which they gave to god the father : and at the highest such as the platonists gave to their celestial deities . and although the arians did invocate christ and put their trust in him , yet they still supposed him to be a creature , and therefore believed that all the power and authority he had was given to him : so that the worship they gave to christ must be inferiour to that honour they gave to the supreme god whom they believed to be supreme , absolute and independent . r. p. t. g. takes notice of this answer , and objects two things against it . first , that it stands too far off from the words of nyssen at the distance of pages ; and so proves a very late salve for so old a wound . p. d. especially , considering how poor nyssen lay a bleeding all that while . is it not enough for us to unswer objections ; unless we put them just in the page you would have them , after the way of objections and solutions ? i pity the hard fate of the laconian that hath leaves to turn over , longer than the war of pisa. o for the gallies ! but i hope he will consider better of it . r. p. you may jest as you please at this answer ; but the second is a very solid one : for t. g. shews the parallel to be inconsistent , both with the practice of the arians , and doctrine of the fathers . p. d. what parallel doth he mean ? dr. st. proves from hence inferiour relative worship given to a creature to be idolatry , in the sense of the fathers . is this true , or is it not ? r. p. you have not patience to hear t. g.'s answer out . for , . he saith , the fathers do acknowledge a worship due to the saints , and particularly gregory nyssen in an oration produced by him : and therefore if they had condemned the arians of idolatry for giving only a like worship to christ though in a higher degree , they had condemned themselves for the like crime . . the arians made no such apology for themselves , as the doctor makes for them , viz. that they gave soveraign and absolute worship to god , and only inferiour and relative worship to christ. . why might not the generality at least believe christ to be of a superiour order , so as to have true divinity in him , as the heathens did of their lesser gods , and that being assumed as a consort in the empire , absolute divine honour was due to him ? . they were chargeable with idolatry , because they did avowedly give those acts of worship to christ believing him to be a creature , which by the common consent and publick practice of christians , from whence exteriour signs in the duties of religion receive their determination , were understood to be due only to god incarnate . which makes their case very much different from that of the church of rome , which gave to saints and images only such acts of worship as by the common use and practice of the christian world before luther , were determined and understood , when applied to saints and images , to express an inferiour degree of reverence or worship , than what is due to god himself . this is the substance of t. g.'s answer . p. d. i confess t. g. now offers something worthy a serious debate . which may be reduced to these two things . . what those acts of worship were , which the arians were charged with idolatry for giving to christ supposing him a creature . . how far the church of rome is liable to the same charge , for the worship she gives to saints and images . . for the acts of worship which the arians were charged with idolatry in giving to christ as a creature . the strength of t. g.'s answer lies in two things . . that they were given absolutely to christ , as a lesser god. . that they were such acts which by the consent of the church did signifie proper divine worship . . let us consider whether the worship given to christ could be absolute upon their supposition that christ was a creature . t. g. speaks somewhat faintly in this matter , at first saying only , why might it not be absolute ? at least as to the generality ? but afterwards , he takes heart , and sayes roundly that the fathers evermore charge the arians for giving absolute divine worship to christ , although they believed him to be of a different nature from the supreme god : which he hopes is far enough from the doctors relative or inferior worship . but i am very far from being satisfied with this answer . for i pray tell me wherein lies the difference between soveraign worship , and inferiour : in acts of the mind , or in external acts ? r. p. in internal doubtless ; on t. g.'s principles , who makes external acts to signifie according to the determination of the church . p. d. what are those internal acts wherein the worship of the supreme god consists ? r. p. a due esteem of his excellency , and suitable affection to it . p. d. must not this due esteem distinguish him from all creatures ? r. p. yes surely ; for otherwise it can be no due esteem : the distance being infinite between god and his creatures . p. d. can a man then have an equal esteem of god and a creature ? which he acknowledges to be made by him ? r. p. certainly not . p. d. then it must be unequal , according to the difference of uncreated and created excellencies . r. p. yes . p. d. then the worship must be unequal ; and that which is given to a creature must be inferiour worship . r. p. but t. g. saith , they might believe true divinity to be in him , as the heathens did of their lesser gods. p. d. true divinity ! what is that , when they believed him to be a creature ? did they take him for an uncreated creature ? for that can be no true divinity which is not uncreated ; and yet you confess they owned christ to be a creature . what nonsense and contradiction would t. g. cry out upon , if dr. st. had ever said any such thing ? r. p. might not they believe christ to be assumed as consort in the empire , and so absolute divine honour to be due to him ? p. d. what do you mean by this absolute divine honour ? for i have already proved it must be inferiour worship . r. p. i do suppose absolute divine honour is that which is given to a being on the account of its own excellency , and relative from the respect it hath to another . p. d. but whether absolute or relative , it is proper divine honour you mean. and doth not that imply an esteem of proper divine excellency , and is not that proper to god alone and uncreated ? how then can this absolute divine honour be given to a created being ? r. p. how did the gentiles to their false gods ? p. d. just as the arians , for they made distinctions in their worship ; as will appear when we come to that subject . r. p. what do you make then this worship of the arians to be ? p. d. an inferior and relative worship ; for they supposed they worshipped god , when they gave those acts of worship to christ which were agreeable to the excellencies that were in him . r. p. but ( . ) those acts were such as by the consent of the church were understood to be due only to god incarnate . p. d. here we are to know , both what these acts were ; and what power the church hath to impose a signification upon them . r. p. t. g. names these . . worshipping and serving him with latria . . putting their trust in him as mediator of redemption . . invoking him as the judge of the quick and the dead , &c. p. d. what means this &c. i am afraid here is something beyond the trick about gregory nyssen , which lies under this dragons tayl. are these all which dr. st. mentioned ? r. p. i know not that ; if you know more i am sure to hear of it . p. d. you are not mistaken ; for dr. st. had shewed at large , ( . ) that external adoration was one of those things which the fathers charged the arians with idolatry for giving to christ supposing him to be a creature : from peters forbidding cornelius , and the angel st. john ; because this is only proper to god : from the plain testimonies of athanasius , epiphanius and st. cyril . ( . ) that invocation of christ as a mediator of intercession , was condemned as idolatry in the arians . athanasius supposes it inconsistent with christianity to joyn christ , if he were a creature , in our prayers , together with god. ( . ) that they made no such distinction of worshipping and serving with latria , as t. g. insinuates . for he shews from the testimonies of athanasius , and even gregory nyssen , st. cyril and theodoret , that the very worship which they condemn for idolatry is called doulia by them . and therefore these are meer shifts and evasions which do not remove the difficulty at all . i deny not , but they did put their trust in christ for salvation , and expect his coming to judge the quick and the dead ; but i say these were but expressions suitable to the apprehensions they had of his excellencies above any other creatures , but still inferiour to gods : and the fathers did not charge them with idolatry meerly for these acts , but for the other likewise mentioned before . r. p. but t. g. hath a reserve still behind , viz. that it is in the churches power to determine the signification of external acts of worship , what belongs to soveraign or proper divine worship , and what to inferiour worship ; that at that time the church might take those for acts of divine worship which afterwards by consent of the church came only to signifie inferiour acts of worship when applied to creatures ; and therefore the argument cannot hold from that time to after ages . p.d. i think you have hit upon t. g.'s meaning : and in truth it is the only thing to be said in the case . for if idolatry be a thing in the churches power to determine , it is the only way in the world for the church of rome to free her self ( supposing that power to be lodged in her ) ; but if it should happen that the law of god , the consent of nations , the reason of divine worship and the practice of the primitive church have determined idolatry antecedently to the power of the present church : what a case are you then in ? the guilt of idolatry must lie heavily upon you , and if it be so great a sin as your own schoolmen determine , you have a great deal to answer for ; notwithstanding all the tricks and evasions of t. g. but why doth not t. g. make the external acts of theft , adultery , murder and perjury , as much under the churches power as those of idolatry ? but i forbear now , supposing that we shall meet with this useful notion again before we end this debate . r. p. you are mistaken , if you think t. g. had no other answer to give : for he saith , they could not be understood of that worship which our church gives to saints , because they acknowledge an inferiour worship due to the saints ; for which he quotes st. austin , gregory nazianzen , st. hierom and gregory nyssen . p. d. had t. g. the confidence to quote st. augustin again for this , when dr. st. purposely answered this very testimony in his book which t. g. pretends here to answer , and proves evidently from him that no worship was then given to the saints ? and to all this t. g. returns nothing , but however he brings the same testimony again ; as whole and as sound , and as much to the purpose as ever . gregory nazianzen is quoted at peradventure , for i remember nothing in the orat. de nat. christ. to that purpose , although i lately read it over . st. hierom speaks only of reverencing the sepulchres of the martyrs : but all the weight lies upon gregory nyssen , and what , i pray , saith this single witness to the business ? r.p. more than you will be willing to hear , or able to answer . for in his oration upon st. theodore that great and holy martyr , ( which even rivetus himself that capricious fanatick in criticism doth not question to be his genuine work ) he commends the peoples devotion to the martyrs , he describes the magnificent structure of the temple , the pieces of sculpture in it , and especially the picture of the martyr ; then coming to the shrine he shews the esteem they had for his relicks ; and if they were admitted to touch his body , they embrace it as if they beheld it yet alive ; and weeping over it as if he were whole before them , they solicit his supplication and intercession , beseeching him as a champion of god , and invocating him as one that could obtain blessings , when he would , for them . and then he dilates himself upon the acts of the martyr and the great benefits they received by him : and at the end of his oration addresses himself to him in these words , we stand in need of many benefits , do thou intercede and deprecate with our common king and lord for thy country . do thou as a souldier fight in our defence . and in case there be need of greater intercession call an assembly of thy brother martyrs ; let the prayers of many just persons expiate the sins of multitudes of offenders . admonish peter , excite paul , and john also the beloved disciple to be solicitors for the churches they have founded ; that idolatry may not lift up its head , that heresies may not overgrow the vineyard , &c. but by the power of thine and thy fellows intercession , o admirable man , and eminent among martyrs , the christian church may be a plentiful field of harvest , &c. if dr. st. had been present at this oration , saith t. g. how may we think would his zeal have urged him to have cried out idolatry , flat idolatry , very real idolatry , meer heathenish idolatry . p. d. i am not of your mind in this ; for i suppose he would have considered the allowances to be made for an eloquent person in a panegyrical oration ; when things are amplified , heightned , improved , with all the most moving figures and strains of rhetorick to excite the auditors admiration and affection to the party commended . and he must be a great stranger to the schools of eloquence that will form doctrines and devotions from apostrophe's and prosopopeia's . i do not think dr. st. would have charged cicero a jot the more for idolatry for his praying to the hills and woods of alba , vos albani tumuli atque luci , oro atque obtestor : what! flat idolatry ! heathenish idolatry ! praying to hills and woods . no such matter . for so rhetoricians will tell t. g. what great scope orators may take in the representation of persons and the things done by them ; and how mightily those figures both adorn the oration and move the auditors ; but withal , that these are figures it is very easie to exceed in , and it requires great judgement to manage them with a due decorum . if it were needful for t. g. i could produce the testimonies of both greek and latine rhetoricians to this purpose . all the question is , whether gregory nyssen spake like an orator in these expressions , for which we must consider the character of the person , and the occasion of speaking . as to gregory nyssen , gregory nazianzen severely rebukes him in a whole epistle for affecting more the glory of an orator than of a christian ; and this after he was a priest , and devoted to the service of christ ; in so much that many christians were very much offended at him . and what wonder is it to find such a person , on such an occasion as making a panegyrical oration on a martyr , laying on all his colours , opening his perfuming pots , and using more the figures of an orator , than the exactness of a divine ? nay , it was become so general a custom among their eloquent men to exceed in their panegyrical orations , that i find theodoret quoted for saying , no rule of doctrine is to be taken from them . and it is agreed by your divines as well as our own , that the fathers in their popular orations do make use of such bold figures , as are not to be made a foundation for doctrines to be taken from them . therefore this apostrophe to theodorus by gregory nyssen is no argument to prove invocation of saints ; there being a great difference between flowers of rhetorick and forms of devotion . r. p. but he commends the devotion of the people to the martyrs , and calls it a pure worship . p. d. that he might well do , as the solemnities of the martyrs were observed out of honour to god and the christian religion . for then the christians met at the tombs of the martyrs to perform the publick worship of god there ; and afterwards erected churches upon their memories , so that the place , the time , the occasion of meeting was for the honour of the martyrs , but the worship was given to god alone . r. p. doth not gregory nyssen take notice of the peoples soliciting his supplication and intercession with god for them , as their champion , &c. p. d. i grant he doth so ; but observe his words ; he saith the people when they touch any part of his body , ( which was very rarely granted ) they embraced it , as if it had been living ; and wept over it ; and then he adds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . as if he had been whole and appeared before them , ( which last word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t. g. very conveniently left out , which i leave to the reader to judge of , as a testimony of t. g.'s sincerity , at the very same time he charges dr. st. for the same fault ) they solicit his intercession , beseeching him as the champion of god , and calling upon him as one that received gifts when he pleased . i do not think this superstition of the people was to be excused , which began most early to appear in the parts of cappadocia and pontus , and the reason of it is not hard to give , from the turning the heathen festivals into christian solemnities to the martyrs , of which gregory nyssen speaks in the life of gregory thaumaturgus ; but however , this was not any solemn invocation of him , as a part of religious worship , but an occasional and rare thing , and done upon supposition , as if he had been alive and then present among them . and that the practice of these men who seemed most to make addresses to saints in the fourth century did differ from the invocation of saints in your church , i shall make appear by these particulars . . invocation of saints is made a solemn part of religious worship in the church of rome . for which , we do not run to some extravagant expressions of your preachers ; nor barely to the ave maries they use in their pulpits , of which no single instance can be produced out of antiquity ; but to the publick , solemn authorized offices of your church . and although you may say , the church is not answerable for the indiscretion of preachers , or the figures of poets , yet certainly she is for all standing and allowed offices of divine worship . and this is that we charge you with , that by this you make religious worship of the creatures , a part of your constant and solemn worship . even in the masse it self , you begin with confession to god and to his creatures ( which athanasius accounted so great an impiety , to joyn god and his creature together in an act of worship ) and afterwards pray to them . and although in the plain canon of the masse you pretend there is scarce any , or but twice or thrice , a direct invocation of the saints ; yet upon occasional and anniversary masses , such invocation is very frequent , as in the masses of the festivals of the blessed virgin , which are many in the year ; the masse for women with child ; the masses of the apostles , the angel michael and many saints : which it were tedious to repeat . it would be endless to give an account how much of your breviaries , houres , litanies , and private offices of devotion is stuffed out with formal addresses to saints . if you but cast your eye on any of the offices of the b. virgin , you cannot question the truth of this . now i pray tell me , where you meet with any like this in antiquity ; you may pick up some flourishes of orators or poets in the fourth century ; but what are these to the standing offices of the church ; which are the standard of divine worship ? name me any one liturgy of the church , which is authentick , that had the name of a●y saint or creature in it by way of invocation before the time of petrus fallo , who is no author to be gloried in . and of him indeed nicephorus saith , that he first brought the invocation of the blessed virgin into the prayers of the church . before his time , the fathers utterly deny there was any invocation of saints in the prayers of the faithful , as dr. st. hath evidently proved from st. augustin : and methinks t. g. should have said something or other to it , and not think this poor single testimony of gregory nyssen would overthrow all . . the invocation of saints in your church is direct and formal , not meerly by way of desire to pray for them , but to bestow blessings upon them . of which dr. st. hath produced several late instances in books of devotion now in use here in england ; to which many more might be added , if it were needful . and it is a wonder to me , that any man who hath looked into the offices of the b. virgin can make the least doubt of this . and considering the titles given her in the roman church , it were a disparagement to her , not to pray directly to her for blessings . for if she be the fountain of grace and mercy , the mother of consolation , the safety of all that trust in her , the dispenser of graces to whom she pleases , the queen of heaven to whom all power is committed , the mediatrix between her son and us ; as she is stiled in the roman church ; why may not men pray as directly to her as to christ himself ? as long as these and many other titles are owned in their prayers , in their sacred hymns , in their commentators on scripture , and not meerly in their poets and orators . why doth t. g. go about to deceive the world in making it believe that all their invocation is only praying to pray for them ? which is all that is pretended to be used in the ancient church : and cassander thinks they were rather wishes and desires than prayers ; for which he gives a very good reason , viz. that there was a condition expressed by them ; such as that of greg. nazianzen in his oration on his sister gorgonia . if thou hast any regard to our affairs , and if this be part of the reward of holy souls to be sensible of things done below , receive this office of kindness from me . which shews they had no confidence or assurance that the saints in heaven did understand our affairs , and therefore all expressions of this kind in them were rather wishes than prayers . and even greg. nyssen in this oration upon theodore supposes , that unless he came down from above where-ever he was , whether in the aethereal region , or celestial , or angelical , and were actually present among them , he could not understand the honours that were done him , nor the addresses they made to him . and when they did express such an uncertainty as this at the same time they made these addresses towards the conclusion of their orations , after the manner of oratours , it is plain they are to be understood rather for rhetorical wishes , than formal invocations . now let any man compare this doubtfulness of the ancients , with the confidence expressed in the church of rome , when they declare it to be de fide that the saints do hear them , ( although the manner be not ) and then judge whether their practises can be of the same kind . . the invocation of saints in your church doth imply inward submission to a creature ; and therefore goes very much beyond the addresses of the ancients . there are three things which prove this inward submission to a creature in the invocation of saints . . inward devotion to them : . an acknowledged superiority over them : . an intention to give them divine worship . . inward devotion . for even mental prayers to saints are allowed by the council of trent , as dr. st. told t. g. , of which he takes no notice ; and yet quarrels with him for two other passages in the same place . must we impute this to a casual vndulation of the visual rayes , as t. g. very finely expresseth it ? i am afraid , there was some other cause for it . for since that council allows internal prayers to saints , it must not only certainly suppose their knowledge of the heart , but a due submission of our souls to them ; which inward prayer doth import . and therefore suppliciter invocare tam voce quàm mente , which are the words of the council of trent ; doth not only imply formal invocation , but internal submission ; both which do belong to suppliants . . an acknowledged superiority over them : which appears by that authority and government which they attribute to them , with respect to particular places and things . whereby they make the saints not bare intercessours , but tutelar deities , and they invocate them as such . t. g. saith , they do not make them authours of those blessings ; not originally , and independently ; but subordinately and ministerially they do . and if this be not idolatry , no worship of the inferiour deities among the heathens was so . lipsius was no fool when he made the b. virgin a tutelar deity ; and the popes surely understand their own religion , when they canonize particular saints to be patrons of such places : which may be seen in some of the latest canonizations . as of s. rosa , that admirable saint of peru , and others . . an intention to give divine worship to them . for what else can be meant by that eminent kind of adoration which bellarmine saith , doth belong to them ; that divine worship , which azorius saith , you give to the saints ; and serrarius saith , many of the wisest persons among you say , that latria and doulia proceed both from the same vertue of religion ; that is , they are of the same kind . so that this is not meerly the superstition of the vulgar , but the judgement of the wisest among you , if serrarius his judgement may be taken . i will not dissemble what b. forbs observes , that some of the school-men do make the invocation of saints not to slow from the vertue of religion , but another of their own making , called singularis observantia . but this is only a trick found out to avoid the imputation of idolatry , which they thought would fall justly upon them , if they made the worship to be of the same kind , although of a different degree : since nothing can be plainer in antiquity , than that all truly religious worship belongs only to god and cannot be given to a creature , without the guilt of idolatry . for even in the same age wherein greg. nyssen lived , the council of laodicea declared the invocation of angels to be idolatry ; so theodoret expresseth the sense of that council , who certainly understood the meaning of it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are his words , which he makes to be all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that praying to them is that part of divine worship which was condemned for idolatry , being given to angels . r. p. t. g. saith , this was a practice of nominating angels , which he saith , cannot with any shew of probability be understood of that worship , which the holy catholick church gives to holy angels . p. d. good sir , his reason ; for to my apprehension it comes as home to the practice of the church of rome as may be . r. p. ( . ) because the council speaks of such as excluded our lord jesus christ , making private assemblies : which words dr. st. conveniently omitted . p. d. did he so ? let us hear them at length . that christians ought not to forsake the church of god , and go aside , to invocate angels ; or make unlawful conventicles ; if any one be found practising this secret idolatry , let him be accursed ; because he hath forsaken our lord jesus christ , the son of god , and betaken himself to idolatry . the council speaks this of a sort of christians , who yet were guilty of idolatry in praying to angels ; therefore praying to angels is idolatry . r. p. yes , such praying to angels as theodoret speaks of , upon account that the law was delivered by them , or that god being invisible and incomprehensible cannot be approached but by the angels . p. d. will t. g. stand to it , that this is idolatry ? then it must be idolatry in the nature of the thing , or by some positive law ; if the latter , we see the council of laodicea accounts it equal idolatry among christians as before : if the former , then praying to a creature is idolatry in the nature of the thing : which is a very fair concession , and i suppose the church of rome will con him no thanks for . r. p. but it is idolatry on those accounts i mentioned . p. d. on what i pray ? because the law was delivered by them ? how is that possible on t. g.'s principles , when they were only gods ministers therein ? and so praying to gods ministers in heaven is idolatry ; how then will praying to saints escape ? r. p. but theodoret adds , they brought us salvation thereby . p. d. only ministerially ; and this alters not the case . r. p. but suppose they thought access to god was only by them ? p. d. what then ? that might prove them no christians , but doth it prove them idolaters ? suppose they were jews ; must they therefore needs be idolaters ? r. p. but t. g. saith , good angels are not to be worshipped but in subordination to christ the head , nor their prayers to be desired as efficacious for us but through his merits . p. d. and what follows ? therefore leaving out christ is idolatry ? doth t. g. talk at this rate ; and hope to excuse the church of rome from idolatry ? for i still ask , what it was , which made their worship of angels idolatry ? leaving out of christ might make it judaism or heathenism , but how comes it to be idolatry ? r. p. i think you will never be satisfied . p. d. not with such answers , i assure you . r. p. baronius saith , theodoret was mistaken ; and that this canon is to be understood of heathen idolatry ; and that the oratories of michael which theodoret saith , were built by those idolaters , were in truth built by very good catholicks . p. d. this is plain dealing : and baronius saw well enough , there was no way to justifie the church of rome , but by condemning theodoret : but i leave it to any mans consideration , whether theodoret , whose distance was not great , either in age or place , did not better understand the meaning of this council ; and the practises of those times and places , than baronius ; and whether his judgement be not rather to be taken , than that of a man , who turns every stone to avoid a difficulty , which he saw could no otherwise be answered . r. p. ( . ) how can this be the meaning of the council of laodicea , when it declares for the honouring , and celebrating the feast-days of the martyrs ? p. d. doth t. g. call this a second reason ? where lyes the consequence ? the council of laodicea , was for honouring the feast-dayes of the martyrs , therefore the praying to angels is not condemned by it for idolatry . as though there were no way of celebrating their festivals , but by praying to saints and angels . when t. g. proves that meeting at their memories on their anniversary dayes , and praising god for them , and rehearsing their acts , was no keeping their festivals without praying to them ; he will do something towards making this look like a reason . in the mean time , let the reader consider whether praying to saints was practised by greg. nyssen , when praying to angels about the same time by the council of laodicea is condemned for idolatry . but this is not all which i have to say ; for if gregory nyssen's practice doth excuse the modern invocation of saints from idolatry , i desire to know whether it was singular in him , or the sense of the church of that age ? r. p. no doubt t. g. brings it for an instance of the sense of the church : for it were to no great purpose to produce a singular opinion or practice of one man condemned by the rest of the church . p. d. then i ask , whether offering up ones self , or offering up a cake to a saint , be the greater idolatry ? r. p. a mans self certainly . p. d. do not they who devote themselves to a particular saint , choosing her for their perpetual patroness , vowing themselves to be her slaves , offer up themselves to her ? r. p. what would you have ? p. d. i will tell you , epiphanius who lived in the same age with greg. nyssen , condemns those for rank idolatry , who offered up cakes to the b. virgin ; and do you think he would have excused those who offered up themselves and their devotions to her ? and at the same time he condemns the worship both of saints and angels ; in the places produced by dr. st. what answer hath t. g. made to this ? r. p. i do not remember he takes notice of it . p. d. t. g. would make an excellent commentator ; for he knows how to pass over a hard place , as well as any i have met with . but still i have one question more . whether greg. nyssen did argue well against the arians or not ? r. p. why should you question that ? p. d. do you think he spake consistently to himself ? or , if not , is his opinion to be taken from a panegyrical oration , or a strict dispute ? r. p. a strict dispute ; for then men consider every word , and the consequence of it . p. d. greg. nyssen goes upon this principle , to give divine worship to a creature is idolatry : but the arians in worshipping christ as a creature do give divine worship to a creature : therefore , &c. to make good the particulars of this charge , we must consider what greg. nyssen makes to be the parts of divine worship ; and if i can prove , that greg. nyssen doth make prayer to be such a part of divine worship , then by necessary consequence he makes praying to a creature to be idolatry . now it is very well known that greg. nyssen in several places makes prayer with supplication to be peculiar to god ; therefore he calls it a conversing with god ; a request of good things with supplication unto god. in which he agrees with the rest of the fathers , who made religious invocation peculiar to god. sed tamen tu solus domine invocandus es , saith s. ambrose . i do not pray to any besides thy self ; saith ephreem syrus in the officium diurnum of the maronites . we call not on the name of this man or that man , saith s. chrysostome , but on the name of the lord. this is an honour , he saith , god hath reserved to himself , to call upon him , and will not give it to angels or arch-angels ; as he elsewhere speaks . vnto god alone do we pray , saith the greek catena on the fifth psalm . to whom shall i call but unto thee , saith s. augustine . this is the best sacrifice we can offer unto god , say clemens of alexandria and tertullian . it were easie to produce many more testimonies to this purpose , if these be not sufficient to prove , that in greg. nyssens ▪ age , as well as before , prayer was looked on as a peculiar part of divine worship . r. p. to what purpose ? since no body denyes , that prayer as it is a means to obtain blessings from god as the author of them is peculiar to god. p. d. this answer doth not take off the force of the argument . for prayer may be considered two wayes . . as a means to obtain blessings . . as a solemn part of divine worship . now if they reserved prayer to god , on the latter account , then it follows , that whatever invocation doth take off from the peculiarity of this part of external worship , is against the design of the fathers . so origen argues that invocation and adoration do imply each other . invocare nomen domini & adorare deum unum atque idem est . to invocate god and to adore him is all one ; from whence he proves that those who invocate christ do adore him . and where the church of smyrna declares in her epistle about the martyrdom of polycarp , that they did not worship any other but christ , the old latin translation renders it , neque alteri cuiquam precem orationis impendere . and theodoret makes praying to angels , and the worshipping of them the same thing . so that prayer was looked on as a part of adoration ; therefore whosoever gives the external worship of prayer to another besides god , doth give to a creature that which belongs to god. r. p. i know not what you mean , i pray explain your self more . p. d. is not god worshipped solemnly by us , when we joyn together in prayer to him ? r. p. yes . p. d. is not this external worship , that which the fathers mean , by the adoration that is implyed in prayer ? r. p. suppose it be . p. d. wherein lyes this external worship ? is it not that we meet together and joyn in acts of devotion to testifie our acknowledgement of gods soveraignty and dependence upon him ? r. p. what then ? p. d. then whosoever do use the same external acts of worship to a creature , do apply that to a creature which the fathers did suppose to belong only to god ; as if men kneel and pray to saints in the same place , at the same time , with the same ceremonies of devotion they use to god himself , they take off the peculiarity of this worship to god , and make it common to his creatures . r. r. this only reaches to the external acts , but the intention and design of the worshippers with us make the difference . p. d. i do not now meddle with your intention and design ; but i am pursuing the force of the argument used by the fathers . to make this yet more plain to you . the fathers use the argument of external adoration against the arians ; for say they , peter forbad cornelius to worship him , and the angel s. john ; from whence they infer that god only ought to be worshipped , and therefore giving external adoration to christ , supposing him to be a creature , is idolatry . is this argument good , or not ? r. p. let me consider a little : it was good then , but it is not now ; for t. g. saith , it is in the churches power to determine the signification of exteriour signs . p. d. an admirable answer ! which makes the arguments of the fathers in truth to have no force at all . for the arians might say , the external acts of adoration did not signifie the same with them , which they did with catholicks , for they only signified an inferiour and relative worship , when applyed to the son ; and soveraign and absolute worship , when given to the father . so that if there be any force in what the fathers did argue against the arians , it will make the inferiour and relative worship of a creature to be idolatry ; notwithstanding greg. nyssens oration upon theodore . r. p. i am like t. g. who hates a great book upon one subject ; so do i a long discourse upon one argument : methinks greg. nyssen hath taken up a great deal of our time , and i have something more yet to say to you , before we part . p. d. i pray let me hear it , and i suppose it will admit of a quicker dispatch . r. p. it is upon the same head of the doctors fidelity in quoting authors , and it concerns the passage in arnobius , in which t. g. charged him with cogging in the word divinity in the singular number instead of adorable deities in the plural ; and dr. st. answers with a protestation , that he translated these words nihil numinis inesse simulachris , which he saith are but two lines above the words t. g. charges him with . p. d. and how i pray doth t. g. clear himself ? for in my mind he is most concerned to vindicate himself . r. p. he doth it very well ; for he denyes not those words to be there which dr. st. translated , but he saith , he ought not to have translated the words of arnobius to the heathens , but the words of the heathens to arnobius , since his design was to prove the heathens did not worship the images themselves for gods. p. d. a pitiful shift ! t. g. charged dr. st. with cogging in the word divinity in the singular number ; dr. st. shews , it was so used but two lines before those words which t. g. cites , and those were the words he translated . now saith t. g. those were the words of arnobius to the heathen ; what then ? doth he not confute them in something which they held ; if he proves , nihil numinis inesse simulachris , must not they hold aliquid numinis , &c. so that it comes all to one . but to put this out of all doubt , if t. g. had looked a little farther , he might have found these very words of the heathens , illud etiam dicere simulachrorum assertores solent ; surely these are the heathens ; non ignorasse antiquos nihil habere numinis signa . what doth t. g. think now ? had he not better look more about him , before he makes such rude and impertinent clamours about dr. st.'s insincerity in quoting authors ? of which you may judge by this one instance , where himself is so notoriously faulty , and yet from hence he concludes what a sad account of citations we are like to have from him . r. p. what say you to dr. st.'s obs●rvations of the council of trent about the worship of images ? p. d. have you ever been a hunting of squirrels ? r. p. why do you ask me such an impertinent question ? p. d. not so impertinent as you think : for the squirrels leaping from bough to bough , forwards and backwards , is just like t. g.'s answer to dr. st.'s book . for he makes nothing of leaping a hundred or two hundred pages forwards and backwards as the humour takes him . however , let us hear what he hath to say to those observations . for i remember very well , what the design of them was ; viz. that though the worship of latria was owned before it by many divines to be given to images , and that were against the decree of the council of nice ; yet the council of trent allows all external acts of adoration of images , gives no intimation against this kind of worship ; and since it , many of the most eminent divines of your church have justified the giving latria to images , and that from the words of this council . r. p. but t. g. saith , those very divines do not mean by latria proper divine worship , which is due to god and terminated upon him ; but that the act being in their opinion one in substance to the prototype and the images , it is terminated absolutely upon the person of christ for himself , and falls upon the image after an inferiour manner , as a thing only relating to him , and purely for his sake : for which reason , some call it relative latria ; others , secundary ; others , improper ; others , analogical ; others , per accidens ; and the dispute in effect is rather de modo loquendi , than of the thing it self . p. d. to clear this matter , we must consider , ( . ) that the council of nice doth deny latria to be given to an image . ( . ) that the divines of the roman church do say that the practice of the church cannot be defended in the worship of the cross , without giving latria to it . ( . ) that the council of trent , when just occasion was given , declares nothing against this ; for although it referrs to the council of nice , yet when it gives the reason of worship , it doth it in such terms , that many of your divines say , must infer the worship of latria to be given to them . r. p. what if it doth , saith t. g. since , it is only a dispute about words , and all agree that the worship proper to god , signified primarily by the word latria , is not to be given to images ? p. d. that must be a little better considered . for do you think it is possible to give the worship proper to god to an image , or not ? if it be not , why did the council of nice declare against it ; if it be , tell me in what acts that worship of latria doth consist ? r. p. it is when men give proper divine honour to an image . p. d. what is this proper divine honour ? for you are not one step forwarder by this answer . i see i must come to particulars . were the gnosticks and ancient hereticks to blame in their worship of images , or not ? r. p. no doubt they were ; for they stand condemned by the church for that worship they gave to images . p. d. wherein did their fault lye ? r. p. in giving divine honour and worship to the image . p. d. did not they worship the image of christ ? r. p. and what then ? p. d. then their fault lay in giving divine worship to the image of christ ? r. p. yes , proper divine worship . p. d. what was that proper divine worship ? was it absolute , or relative ? r. p. absolute . p. d. then it was giving divine worship to an image of christ , without respect to christ ; which is either non-sense , or a contradiction . is it possible to give divine worship to an image of a person , without respect to the person ? men may worship a piece of wood , or a stone , without respect to a person ; but to worship that which represents , and on that account , because it represents , without any respect to what it represents , is a contradiction ; therefore the worship of an image as such is a relative worship ; and proper latria as given to an image is relative latria . r. p. but men may give absolute divine worship to an image ; for may not a man joyn in his mind the image and person represented as one object of worship , and so give proper divine worship to both considered as one ? p. d. i thank you for that : for so i find some of your divines have determined that in this sense absolute and proper divine worship may be given to the cross. and dr. st. produced several of them , who contended for an absolute latria to be due to images : such as ludovicus à paramo , paulus maria quarti , gamachaeus a late professour of divinity in the sorbon ; and others . r. p. but t. g. saith , they only differ in modo loquendi . p. d. i think rather in modo colendi . for are not absolute and relative worship two distinct kinds ? how else comes the giving absolute worship to be idolatry , and not the giving relative ? and if giving absolute worship be idolatry , all in your church are guilty of it , who worship the image and thing represented as one object . if it be not , then there can be none to an image as such . r. p. yes ; if they offer sacrifice to images , as the gnosticks did . p. d. s. augustin and theodoret say ; they adored images , and offered incense to them . and is not the very same practised in your church ? if this were idolatry in them , why not in you ? unless your church hath power to change the nature of idolatry : which is all one with changing the nature of vertues and vices . r. p. but they sacrificed to images as the heathens did . p. d. true ; for the burning incense before images was thought to be sacrificing to them , being joyned with adoration . and the christians chose rather to dye , than to joyn in that act of worship towards the images of the emperours : whence dr. st. observed , that burning of incense towards images was the same tryal of christians , that eating of swines flesh was of the jews . i pray tell me , was there any harm in this or not ? supposing the christians looked on the emperours as gods vicegerents , and the images only as representing them ? r. p. i see what you aim at ; you would have me condemn the primitive christians or our selves : according to the sense of the church at that time , it was unlawful , but according to the sense of our church now , it is lawful to do the same things out of honour to the images of christ , or his saints . p. d. that is , your church is innocent , if your church may be judge . but i now dispute upon your own principles of relative worship , whether those acts might not have been done to the emperours images , which had saved the lives of so many martyrs ? r. p. no ; for the emperours then exacted to be worshipped as gods , i. e. with divine worship . p. d. was that divine worship supreme or not ? i. e. did they take the emperours for supreme deities ? r. p. no ; but they gave them the worship of the supreme deity . p. d. then the giving this worship was thought idolatry , though mens conceptions were right as to their being creatures . r. p. but what is this to the worship of images ? p. d. was it not lawful to give the same worship to the images of the emperours as to the emperours themselves ? might not they look on the emperours as gods vicegerents , and so give them relative latria on that account ; and then look on their images as representing them , and so give a secundary , improper , analogical relative latria to their images ? and by this means the heathens and the christians had only differed in modo loquendi ; but the christians had saved their lives by the bargain . r. p. but our dispute is of the images of christ , and not of heathen emperours . p. d. i only shew the absurd consequences of this doctrine , and how inconsistent it is with the principles of primitive christianity . but i return to the distinctions of your divines about latria being given to images . you all agree t. g. saith , that the worship proper to god is not to be given to images . is not latria the worship proper to god ? r. p. yes : proper latria is ; but not improper and relative . p. d. is there any worship so proper to god , that it cannot be improperly and relatively given to an image ? r. p. what do you mean ? for i do not understand you . p. d. rather , you will not . i ask you , whether there be any such act of worship so proper to god , that you may not in respect to god , do that to his image ; or in respect to christ , do that to the cross ? r. p. although there may be none such , yet the church doth not use all acts of worship to the image , which it doth to god. p. d. i not ask what you do ; but what upon your principles you may do . and suppose a man doth that act which your church allows not , is he guilty of idolatry or bare disobedience in doing it to an image ? r. p. of idolatry . p. d. then there are such external acts of worship so proper to god himself , that the doing them to an image for his sake is idolatry . as to sacrifice to an image for the sake of christ is idolatry . is it not ? r. p. yes . p. d. is the improper and relative sacrificing to an image idolatry ? r. p. you ask an untoward question . for i see what you drive at . p. d. answer me directly . is it , or is it not ? r. p. i think it is . p. d. then it follows , that this distinction of proper and improper , absolute and relative latria signifies nothing . for if the acts of worship are proper to god , no relative or improper use of them can excuse from idolatry ; if they are not proper , then it is no latria . r. p. i must think again of this matter . for as you represent it , this can never excuse us . p. d. i wonder so many subtle men should ever think it would . but i will not thus give it over . when the council of nice did forbid latria being given to an image , did they mean to an image , as a piece of wood , or stone ; or to an image , as an image ? r. p. as an image . for they did forbid giving latria to that which they worshipped , but they worshipped it as an image , for the sake of the prototype . p. d. your reason is unanswerable . therefore i say , they did forbid all relative latria of an image , call it by what name soever you please . for the worship of an image as such must be relative worship . therefore all those who contend for relative latria are condemned by the council of nice . besides , i would fain know of these gentlemen , whether their improper and relative latria , be latria or inferiour worship ? one or other it must be ; and it is a contradiction to say latria is inferiour worship ; for that is to say , it is latria , and it is not . if it be then true latria , i ask whether the image as an image be god or a creature ; if it be a creature , as no doubt it is , then true latria is given to a creature ; which according to t. g. must be idolatry . again ; either it is the same act of latria which is terminated on the person of christ absolutely , and on the cross relatively ; or it is a different act. if the same act ; then there is a double worship , and but one act ; for there is an absolute worship of the person of christ , and a relative worship of the image ; and let it be relative , or what it will , it is a real act of worship ; and so there must be two acts , and yet it is but one act. for is the image or cross worshipped , or not ? if it be worshipped , there must be an act of worship terminated on it ; and how can there be an act of worship terminated upon it , if the same act passeth from the image to the prototype ? these are unintelligible subtleties , and only invented to confound mens understandings , as to the true and distinct notion of divine worship ; and to blind their minds in the practice of idolatry . farther , if this be a difference only de modo loquendi , as t. g. saith , then the very same act may be proper and improper , absolute and relative , per se and per accidens . for so t. g. saith , that it is one act in substance ; but it is absolute as terminated on the person of christ , relative as on the cross ; proper in one sense , improper in the other ; per se in the former sense , per accidens in the later . which catharinus thought to be no less than ridiculous . lastly , there is nothing in the world , but may be worshipped with latria by the help of these distinctions . for a divine presence in the creatures is really a far better ground of worship , than a bare fiction of the mind , that the image and the thing represented are all one . but of this we have discoursed already . r. p. to tell you plainly my mind , i never liked this giving latria to images my self ; but it being a common doctrine in our church , we ought to say as much for it as we can ; but i am only for an inferiour worship to be given to them , and so is t. g. if i do not much mistake his meaning . p. d. let us then consider this inferiour worship , as distinct from latria ; and concerning this i shall prove , that it neither answers the reasons given by councils ; nor the practice of the roman church . ( . ) not the reasons given by the councils of nice and trent . for which i desire but these two postulata . . that images are to have true and proper worship given to them ; which is expressely determined by those councils . . that the reason of this worship is nothing inherent in the image , but something represented by it . which is affirmed by those councils . from hence i argue thus . to worship christ only before an image is not to give proper worship to the image , which the councils require to be given . therefore either the image is to be worshipped for it self , which were idolatry by your own confession ; or christ is to be worshipped in and by the image . r. p. christ is to be worshipped in and by the image . p. d. then you give christ the worship due to him , or not ? r. p. the worship due to him . p. d. but the worship due to christ is proper latria ; therefore you must give proper latria to christ as worshipped in and by the image . r. p. true ; but we give it to the image of christ otherwise than to his person ; for we worship him absolutely , and the image respectively and for his sake . p. d. that is it which i would have ; that there is no worshipping an image on the account of representation , but you must fall into the doctrine of relative latria . r. p. but may not i shew respect to the cross for christs sake , without giving the same worship to the cross , that i do to christ ? p. d. that is not the question ; but whether you may worship christ in and by the cross representing his person , without giving that worship which belongs to the person of christ ? for either you worship the cross for it self , which you confess to be idolatry ; or you worship christ as represented by it : if you worship christ , you must give him the worship which belongs to him , and that can be no other than latria . which not only appears by the doctrine but by the practice of your church in the worship of the cross. which i prove by the second particular , viz. ( . ) inferiour worship doth not come up to the practice of your church , because your church in praying to the cross speaks to it , as if it were christ himself . o crux ave , spes unica , &c. as aquinas observes and many other of your divines , who never own any prosopopoeia ; but do say , that the cross is truly worshipped with that worship which belongs to the person of christ , on the account of representation . and can you imagine so many of your most eminent divines would have put themselves to so much difficulty in defending a relative latria , if they could have defended the practice of your church without it ? but they saw plainly the church did own such a worship to the cross ; and when occasion was offered , did declare it , as in the place cited out of the pontifical by dr. st. , which it would never have done , if it had not been agreeable to its sense . r. p. but this is but one single passage , and will you condemn a whole church for that ? p. d. not , if the sense of the church were otherwise fully expressed against it ; but here we have shewed that passage to be very agreeable to the reason of worship given by your councils ; and to the solemn practice of your church in adoration of the cross ; and therefore that passage ought to be looked on as a more explicite declaration of the sense of the church . for , let me ask you , if the church of rome had been against latria being given to the cross ; whether in a book of such publick and constant use as the pontifical is , it should be left standing , when the book-menders are so busie in your church , that scarce an index of a father can escape them ; nor such sentences as seem to thwart their present doctrine . of which take this instance . you remember what stir t. g. made about gregory nyssen's oration upon theodore ; now the same person disputing against the arians , saith , that no created thing is to be worshipped by men ; this sentence antonius in his melissa had put down thus , that we are only to worship that being which is uncreated . this book happened to come under the spanish index of cardinal quiroga ; do you think he would suffer it to stand as it did ? no , i assure you , deleatur dictio solummodo , saith he ; satis pro imperio . away with this only . why so ? was it not in the author ? no matter for that . it is against the practice of the church ; out with it . more such instances might be produced : but i appeal to your self , whether after such care hath been taken to review the pontifical by clement . and the publishing of it with so much authority , such a passage would have been suffered to remain , if it had been any wayes repugnant to the sense of the church ? r. p. but t. g. saith , the terms of communion with the church are not the opinions of her school-divines , but the decrees of her councils . p. d. and what then ? did dr. st. meddle with the school-divines any otherwise than as they explained the sense of councils , or the practice of the church ? and what helps more proper to understand these , than the doctrine of your most learned divines ? t. g. will have one mr. thorndike to speak the sense of the church of england , against the current doctrine of the rest , as dr. st. hath proved ; yet he will not allow so many divines of greatest note and authority to explain the sense of the church of rome ? is this equal dealing ? r. p. t. g. saith , that for his life he cannot understand any more the idolatry of worshipping an image , than the treason of bowing to a chair of state , or the adultery of a wives kissing her husbands picture ; and that the same subtilties may be used against these , as against the other ; and therefore notwithstanding the disputes of school-divines , honest nature informed with christian principles will be security enough against the practice of idolatry in honouring the image of christ for his sake . p. d. what is the matter with t. g. that for his life he can understand these things no better , after all the pains which hath been taken about him ? hath not the difference of these cases been laid open before him ? do not your own writers confess , that in some cases an image may become an idol , by having divine worship given to it ? is this then the same case with a wives kissing her husbands picture ? doth not this excuse the gnosticks worship of the image of christ , as well as yours ? if there may be idolatry in the worship of an image , we are then to consider , whether your worship be not idolatry ? especially , since both parties charge each other with idolatry ; those who will have it to be latria , and those who will not . and i do not see what honest nature can do in this case , however assisted , unless it can make the worship of images to be neither one nor the other . i see t. g. would fain make it to be no more than bare honour of an image for the sake of christ ; but this doth not come up to the decrees of councils , the general sense of divines , and the constant practice of your church ; if ever worship was given to images you give it , by using all acts of adoration towards them . r. p. but suppose the king had made an order , that due honour and respect should be given to the chair of state , ought not that to be observed , notwithstanding the disputes which might arise about the nature of the act ? p. d. to answer this , we must suppose a command from god that we must worship an image of christ , as we do his person ; but here it is just contrary . the reason of the second command being owned by the christian church to hold against the worship of images now as well as under the law. but those in the church of rome who do charge each other with idolatry , without supposing any such command , do proceed upon the nature of the worship ; which must either be divine worship , which one party saith is idolatry , being the same which is given to god ; or an inferiour religious worship , which the other party saith must be idolatry , being an expression of our submission to an inanimate thing . and for my life i cannot see what answer t. g. makes to this . r. p. t. g. saith , the rules of the church are to be observed in this case as the rules of the court about the chair of state. p. d. what! are the rules of the church to be observed absolutely , whether against the law of god or not ? which is as much as to say at court , that the orders of the green-cloth are to be observed , against his majesties pleasure . but not to insist on that ; i say in this case the rules of the church help nothing ; for they who do follow the rules of the church must do one , or the other of these ; and whichsoever they do , they are charged with idolatry . and therefore dr. st. had great reason to say ; where there is no necessity of doing the thing , the best way to avoid idolatry is to give no worship to images at all . r. p. what will become of the rules of the church , saith t. g. if men may be permitted to break them for such capriches as these are ? p. d. are you in earnest ? doth t. g. call these capriches ? idolatry is accounted both by fathers and schoolmen a crime of the highest nature ; and when i am told i must commit it one way or other , by your divines , if i give worship to images , is this only a capriche ? r. p. will not the same reason hold against bowing to the altar ; bowing being an act of worship appropriated to god ? p. d. will the same reason hold against bowing out of reverence to almighty god ? which i have told you again and again , is all our church allows in that which you call , bowing to the altar . i see you are very hard put to it , to bring in this single instance , upon every turn , against the plain sense and declaration of our church . if this be all t. g. upon so long consideration hath to say in this matter , it is not hard to judge , who hath much the better cause . r. p. i pray hold from triumphing a while ; for there is a fresh charge behind , wherein you will repent , that ever you undertook to defend dr. st. , it is concerning the unjust parallel he hath made between the heathen and romish idolatry . p. d. i see no cause to repent hitherto . and i hope i shall find as little when i come to that . the fourth conference , about the parallel between the heathen and romish idolatry . r. p. have you considered what t. g. saith , concerning the parallel between the heathen and romish idolatry , and doth not your heart fail you , as to the defence of dr. st. which you promised to undertake ? p. d. no truly . the more i have considered it , the less i fear it . r. p. what think you of the notion of idolatry he chargeth on t. g. ? viz. that it is the giving the soveraign worship of god to a creature , and among the heathens to the devil , as if the idolatry of the heathens consisted only in worshipping the devil ; whereas it appears from the words dr. st. cites out of him , that he charged the heathens with idolatry in worshipping their images for gods , and the creatures for gods ; although withal they worshipped evil spirits , and t. g. contends , that their supream god was an arch-devil . p. d. is this such a difficulty to be set in the front ? i suppose it is only to try whether i will stumble at the threshold . if the supreme god whom the heathens worshipped was an arch-devil , as t. g. saith , then without all question they gave their most soveraign worship to the devil . and when he pleads so earnestly , that all the gods of the heathens were devils , under whatsoever name or title they worshipped them ; what injury can t. g. think it to his hypothesis to say , that the heathen idolatry did consist in giving soveraign worship to the devil ? besides dr. st.'s words do not imply , that according to t. g. the heathens did not give soveraign worship to other things , but that they did it eminently to the devil ; which must needs follow , if the supreme god among them was no other than an arch-devil ; as t. g. then asserted , and now endeavours more at large to prove . r. p. therefore waving this , i come to the main point ; whether the heathen jupiter were the true god , or an arch-devil ? p. d. you are just like the author of a late scurrilous pamphlet called jupiter , dr. st. 's supreme god , &c. who would fain reduce the whole question of idolatry to this single point , without considering either the occasion of this question , or the main arguments used by dr. st. , or the very scope and design of his discourse : but he is so pitiful a trifler , that he deserves no notice at all . that we may proceed more clearly in this debate , we ought first to attend to the principal question ; which was , whether idolatry be consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme being ? and the reason of this question was , because those who did plead the most plausibly in excusing your church from idolatry , went upon this principle , that supposing men preserved in their minds the notion of one supreme being , it is impossible they should give to a creature that honour which was due to god alone . to overthrow this dr. st. undertook to shew , that this principle would equally excuse the heathen idolatry , since both the ancient and modern heathens did own one supreme god. and if this be granted him , it matters not to the main design of his discourse whether it were jupiter or not . and it is a wonder to me , since the man in t. g.'s dialogues who argues against dr. st. professes himself a disciple of mr. thorndike , he should never take notice of this principle , nor once go about to defend it . but since t. g. acknowledges that the heathens had a notion of one supreme being ingraffed in their minds by nature ; the point then in debate is , on what account they were charged with idolatry ; and whether that will not reach to the practices of the roman church , i. e. whether their idolatry lay in worshipping the creature and not the creator ; or in giving divine worship though of different degrees to the creature and the creator ? and here lies the main strength of this controvesie ; and supposing dr. st. were mistaken as to the sense of the fathers , about jupiter ; yet if the true notion of idolatry be proved to consist in giving the same divine worship to god and his creatures , his parallel will be sufficient to make good the charge of idolatry against the church of rome . yet , since t. g. seems to lay so much weight upon the fathers sense concerning jupiter , i am content to examine them together with you ; but in the first place let us consider , what the scripture saith to this point ; for as i remember dr. st. began with that , then he proceeded to your own writers , and at last brought in the testimonies of fathers , and i see no reason we should go off from this method . r. p. since you will have it so , i will begin with the scripture ; and dr. st. pretends to prove jupiter to be the supreme god from those words acts . whom ye ignorantly worship , him i declare unto you . p. d. consider , i pray , the question between dr. st. and t. g. , viz. whether it were the true god , or an arch-devil : and dr. st. argues in these words . did st. paul mean the devil when he said , whom you ignorantly worship , him i declare unto you ? did he in good earnest go abroad to preach the devil to the world ? yet he preached him whom they ignorantly worshipped . what saith t. g. to this ? r. p. from this very inscription , to the unknown god , he notably proves , it could not be understood of jupiter who was a known god ; and st. paul could not be said to come to preach their jupiter to the athenians , when he expresly tells them , he came to declare to them a god whom they did not know . p. d. to this i answer , that the athenians had so confounded the notion of the supreme god , with that of the poetical jupiter , and the peoples fancies were so stained and polluted with those vulgar representations of jove which they learnt from the poets and painters , that the apostle rather chose to preach the true god to them from the inscription to the unknown god , than from any altars that were inscribed jovi opt. max. because the people would have imagined , if st. paul had made choice of any usual inscription to a deity worshipped in common with the rest , that he must in consequence allow the nature and kind of their worship . for they joyned jupiter and the rest of their gods together , the body of their worship consisting of an acknowledgment of one as supreme , viz. jupiter , and of the rest as worshipped together with him ; and so their worship being a complex thing , it was more agreeable to the apostles design , which was to destroy their idolatry , not to make use of that notion of god which was corrupted by their idolatries , but to take advantage from the inscription to the unknown god , so to declare his nature , as to confute their idolatrous worship , as he doth in the following verses . jupiter therefore as he was the head of the heathen worship , and as he stood in conjunction with their other deities , was a known god amongst them , and solemnly worshipped by the athenians ; but as by jove was understood the eternal mind as the only proper object of divine worship , and therefore ought not to be worshipped with mens hands , nor to be joyned with his creatures , so he was an unknown god. for they had no other knowledge of a supreme god , than as of one who admitted others into a participation of the same worship with himself . and there were these two things which made those gentiles disown the god of the jews , who agreed with them in the acknowledgement of one supreme god who made the world , ( . ) that he would be worshipped by no images or representations of himself . ( . ) that he would admit no inferiour beings to have any share in divine worship , but all such were accounted idolaters by the jewish laws , who according to the eastern customs worshipped any other as mediators , or inferiour deities . from hence the heathens accounted the god of the jews an unknown and unsociable deity ; there being no representations made of him ; nor any others to be joyned in worship with him : therefore dion cassius calls him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a god who could neither be described nor represented . if we believe georgius syncellus , this altar and inscription to the vnknown god , was but lately set up at athens ; whence st. paul might have the greater reason to take notice of it , and from thence to declare how unsuitable their worship was to the true god. and therefore st. paul when he supposes the true god to be the unknown god among them , speaks not in respect of his eternal being , for even t. g. confesseth the heathens had the notion of one supreme god ingrafted in their minds by nature ; but in respect of his way of worship , without images or inferiour deities . for so he pursues his discourse , by arguing from his perfections against that way of worship which was in use among them . whereas , if he had supposed them wholly ignorant of one supreme god , his first and most necessary work had been to have proved there was such a one ; but this he supposes as a thing well enough known in general by them ; but not worshipped by them as he ought to be . god that made the world and all things therein , seeing that he is lord of heaven and earth , dwelleth not in temples made with hands ; nor is worshipped with mens hands , &c. if st. paul had supposed them ignorant of a supreme god , ought he not first to have proved that there was a god who made the world , &c. but since there was no dispute about that , he shews the incongruity of their way of worship to the perfections of his nature . st. augustin proves from this place , whom ye ignorantly worship , him i declare unto you ; that the true god was truly though ignorantly worshipped by the athenians . for , saith he , what did st. paul preach to them , but that the same god whom they ignorantly and unprofitably worshipped out of the church , they should worship wisely and savingly in the church ? one god , saith he , is worshipped ignorantly without the church , and yet he is the same god : as it is the same faith which is without charity out of the church ; for it is one god and one faith , and one catholick church ; non in quâ solâ unus deus colitur , sed in quâ solâ unus deus piè colitur . not in which alone one god is worshipped ; but in which alone one god is piously worshipped . the fault then of the athenians lay in their manner of the worship of the true god , and not in the total neglect of it , or in worshipping an arch-devil instead of him . r. p. t. g. doth not deny that they had some confused notion of a supreme god , but he saith , that he whom they worshipped under the notion of jupiter was an arch-devil . p. d. it appears by s. augustin , that they worshipped the same god , while they were heathens and when they became christians , but after a different manner . and as to jupiter , dr. st. observes , that s. paul quotes the saying of aratus , for we are his off-spring ; which words are spoken of jupiter by the poet , and applyed to the true god by the apostle ; and surely he did not mean that we are the devils off-spring ; but from thence he infers , that we are the off-spring of god : so that if s. paul may be credited rather than t. g. their jupiter was so far from being the arch-devil , that he was the true god , blessed for evermore . r. p. to this t. g. answers , that it is no wonder a heathen poet should apply the attributes of the true god to jupiter ; and the name of jupiter to the true god , as being the name of that deity which was supreme among them ; but s. paul takes the poets words by way of abstraction from jupiter , and applyes them to the true god ; leaving out all mention of jupiter , and changing his name ; which he would not have done if their jupiter was the true god. p. d. i pray tell me one thing ; did s. paul only intend to fill up his discourse with the end of a verse , as some writers do , with omne tulit punctum , &c. or did he intend it by way of argument to convince the athenians ? r. p. s. paul surely did not affect pedantry , and therefore it must be argumentative . p. d. if that be granted , consider the force of the argument in t. g.'s sense of s. pauls words . for in him we live and move and have our being ; as certain also of your own poets have said , for we are also his off-spring . for as much then as we are the off-spring of god , &c. s. paul proves that we have our life , motion , and subsistence from god , from the words of aratus ; for we are his off-spring : either aratus did speak of the same god whom s. paul speaks of , or not ? if not , where lyes the force of the argument ? if he did , then s. paul allows aratus his jupiter to be the supreme god. whosoever reads the verses in aratus cannot imagine he should mean any else ; and the greek scholiast there saith , by jupiter he meant the god that made the world. and dr. st. produced the testimony of aristobulus the jewish philosopher , to the same purpose , viz. that under the name of jove , his design was to express the true god. r. p. t. g. doth not deny that aratus might apply the name of jupiter to the true god , and the attributes of the true god to jupiter : but , he saith , it doth not follow that s. paul , because he cited him , thought their jupiter to be the true god. p. d. suppose then s. paul was of t. g.'s mind , and that their jupiter was an arch-devil ; and see what admirable reasoning he attributes to s. paul. we have all our dependence upon god , as certain of your own poets have said , speaking of him who was really an arch-devil ; for we are his off-spring . if an athenian had asked s. paul , whose off-spring doth aratus say we are ? gods or the devils ? if jove meant by aratus was no other than an arch-devil , how doth this prove us to have our dependence on god for life and motion ? if he were the true god , then i grant it follows ; and the jupiter meant by aratus must be the supreme god. if aratus doth give the name of jupiter to the true god , then he that was meant under that name was the true god ; and s. paul bringing this sentence to prove a main point of divinity must allow him that was called by the name of jupiter to have been the true god. and if t. g. doth yield that the poet did apply the name of jupiter to the true god , he gives up the cause , for that is all which dr. st. contends for : and surely it is not possible for t. g. to imagine the true god and an arch-devil to be the same . and supposing that dr. st. had such a faculty as he mentions , of changing the devil himself into god ; it seems much more desirable , than that of t. g. of changing the true god into an arch-devil . r. p. but doth not s. paul say , that the heathens offered to devils and not to god ; and will you make s. paul to contradict himself ? p. d. s. paul doth not there speak of their intention and design ; for they professed to worship the true god , and good spirits as inferiour deities ; but what their worship was in gods account ; which being so abominably corrupted with idolatry and superstition , was so far from being pleasing to god , that it could be acceptable to none but impure spirits . from whence you may do well to observe , that worship is not terminated according to the i●●ention of the persons , but according to the nature and design of the worship ; for the heathens , when they were urged , did stifly maintain , that the spirits they worshipped , were good in themselves and kind to us , and utterly denyed that they worshipped any other , as dr. st. hath shewed ; but notwithstanding this s. paul doth charge them with the worshipping of devils and not of god. and the main argument the fathers had to prove them to be evil spirits was because they received such worship from men , which good spirits would never have done . this observation is of necessary use for understanding both scripture and fathers , when they charge the heathen idolaters with worshipping devils and not god ; as will appear by our following discourse . this place doth not therefore prove that the gentiles did not intend to worship the true god under the title of jupiter o. m. but that idolatrous worship doth not tend to the honour of god , but to the service of the devil . r. p. do not you remember , when at lystra the priest of jupiter would have offered sacrifice to s. paul as mercury , and to barnabas as jove , in whose shapes they supposed those gods to have appeared , s. paul not only forbad them to do it , but told them their design was to convert them from those vain things to the living god : and can you now think that s. paul meant jupiter by this living god , when he taught them to convert themselves from those vain things ( their false gods ) to the living god , i. e. to jupiter ? was this his way to perswade the men of lystra to leave the worship of their gods , to tell them that he came to teach them to worship jupiter ? p. d. is there no difference between these two questions ; whether the true god might not be worshipped among the heathens under the title of jupiter o. m. ? and whether jupiter of creet as worshipped by them was not a false god ? this later dr. st. never denyed ; and the former was all he pleaded for , as pertinent to his purpose . when they did make such a description of him as to his power , and goodness , as could not agree to such a wretch as the cretan jupiter was described by the poets ; when they rejected the poetical fables , and declared as plainly as men could do , that they understood the supreme governour of the world ; as dr. st. hath at large shewed ; the question is , whether under the name of jove they meant the true god or not ? but doth he ever so much as intimate that jupiter of creet was not a false god ? or that s. paul and the apostles did not go about to convert mankind from the vanities of idol-worship in the sacrifices they made to this jupiter and mercury , as well as any other of their inferiour deities ? to make this matter more clear , which concerns the worship of jupiter among the heathens ; we are to observe , . that the name was more ancient in greece for an object of divine worship than jupiter of creet . if this can be made out , then although this name might be applyed to a particular person , ( as it was usual in the eastern parts to call their princes by the name of their gods ) yet originally it belonged to the deity , and consequently might still be properly attributed to him ; and under that name they might well understand the supreme god. for the proof of this , i make use of an observation of pausanias , and of others from him ; viz. that cecrops was the first who called the supreme god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or jove ; eusebius hath it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; hic primus omnium jovem appellavit , saith isidore . it is well known that cecrops came out of egypt , from whence herodotus observes the greeks took the names of their gods ; cecrops lived in the time of moses , and before the flood of deucalion saith varro : it happened in his time , say eusebius and s. hierome , in which great part of thessaly and greece were overwhelmed . but jupiter of creet , by whom europa the daughter of agenor was taken , was the fifth in descent from deucalion , according to diodorus , being the son of tectamus , the son of dorus , the son of hellen , the son of deucalion . his proper name , diodorus saith , was asterius , whom eusebius follows : s. augustin calls him zanthus , and strabo , zathus ; whose son jon carryed the colonies of greeks into the twelve cities of asia , from him called jonia . from hence it appears that the name of jupiter did not properly belong to him of creet , but was assumed by him , when he affected divine honours . . this jupiter of creet did obtain divine honour under that name among the rude and barbarous greeks . and this was the great discovery made by euhemerus , from the inscription in the temple of jupiter triphylius in greece : from whence it appeared , that this king of creet was a very busie and active prince , having great command both at sea and land , and was very successful in reducing the barbarous people under laws and government , and in many useful inventions for the benefit of humane life : which made the people after his death in creet , bestow the greatest divine honours upon him , and worship him under the most sacred name . for it had been a custome long before among the greeks to deifie the most useful men ; as s. augustine observes of phegous the brother of phoroneus ; of apis king of the argives who dyed in egypt ; of argus who had a temple and sacrifices allotted to him ; of phorbas , jasus , sthenelus , who were all princes among the old greeks . and therefore it was no wonder such people should give divine worship to this prince , who had brought them into so much order in comparison of what they were in before . from hence we find him not only worshipped in creet , where he had several titles from the places where his temples stood , as idaeus , dictaeus , arbius , asius , temillius and scyllius , &c. but in greece , as ithometes , atabyrius , triphylius , olympius , cithaeronius , &c. and whereever the colonies of greeks in asia were , as at tarsus , s. paul's own countrey ; and he was called sardessius , from a city of lycia , chrysosoreus from a place in caria , tarantaeus from a city in bithynia , dolichaeus from a city in comagene , abretanus from a place in mysia , and asbameus from a fountain in cappadocia . is this now any such mighty argument to prove that jupiter could not be taken for the supreme god , because in lystra a city of lycaonia s. paul and barnabas refused the worship the people would have given to them , as to jupiter and mercury ? among the grecian colonies , what wonder is it , if the grecian jupiter was worshipped ? and who ever said , that he was not a false god ? but , after all this , suppose they did mean the great and original jupiter , the maker of the world , had not s. paul and barnabas reason to turn them from the vanities of their worship , when they found them so ready to give divine honours to two men whom they fancied to appear in the likeness of their gods , by doing a sudden and unexpected miracle ? and if it were lawful , by the light of nature to give divine worship of an inferiour degree to mankind , what made the apostles so concerned to run in among them , and to rent their clothes , and to cry out , we are men of like passions with you . therefore all that strain of t. g.'s rhetorick whereby he endeavours to return dr. st.'s arguments upon himself from this place , hath no manner of strength or pungency in it . but what saith t. g. to dr. st.'s other argument from scripture , viz. that s. paul to the romans doth say , that which is known of god was manifest among the heathens ; that his eternal power and godhead were so far discovered that they were left without excuse in their gross idolatry ? how could this be , if their supreme god whom they worshipped were only an arch-devil ? or doth t. g. suppose , that they did own one true god , but gave all their worship to the devil ? and since the name of jupiter was used to express alwayes the chief god whom they did own , and by such characters as could only agree to the true god , is it any wayes likely they should never intend to worship him under that name ? when dr. st. hath shewed from dio chrysostom , that by jupiter they meant the first and greatest god , the supreme governour of the world , and king over all rational beings . r. p. i do not find t. g. takes any notice of the other argument from scripture , but he applyes himself to the fathers . p. d. but what saith he to the testimonies dr. st. produced of the writers of his own church , a full jury of them , who frankly acknowledge that the heathens did own and worship one supreme god ? r. p. i suppose he thought none of the rest worth answering : but he finds great fault with the testimony out of aquinas . p. d. this is a rare way of answering . dr. st. produced twelve several authors of good reputation , t. g. takes no notice of eleven of them , and because he makes some cavils at the twelfth , he would have this pass for an answer to them all . r. p. but the dr. loseth his credit so much in that , that we need not to examine the rest . p. d. why so ? it is possible a man through haste or inadvertency , or as t. g. expresseth it , through a casual undulation of the visual rays , may for once mistake ; but doth it follow , that he must do it for twelve times together ? but i have not yet found any cause for these clamours ; and i suppose there may be as little as to this testimony : i pray tell me where lyes it ? r. p. t. g. makes a great many words about it , but the short of the charge is this , that what aquinas spoke of some of the philosophers , viz. the platonicks , who acknowledged one supreme god , from whom they said , all those others whom they called gods , did receive their being : dr. st. interprets as spoken of the generality of the heathens , who are there said to acknowledge a multitude of gods properly so called . p. d. i know not whether to express greater shame or indignation at this disingenuous dealing . there needs no other answer , but to set down aquinas his words , and to leave the reader to construe them . hac autem veritate repelluntur gentiles deorum multitudinem confitentes , quamvis plures eorum unum deum summum esse dicerent , à quo omnes alios quos deos nominabant , creatos esse asserebant , &c. can any thing be plainer from these words , than that those gentiles are refuted who held a multitude of independent deities , although the greater number of them ( of whom ? is it not of the heathens he spake of before ? and where is there one word of platonists or philosophers in the whole sentence ? ) do acknowledge one supreme god , of whom all others whom they called gods did receive their being . what can be more evident from these words , than that although some among the heathens might hold a multitude of independent deities , yet the greater number did not ? the single question here is , whether plures gentilium , doth signifie the greater number of gentiles , or the small number of platonists , who are not once mentioned ? but besides this , dr. st. produces another testimony out of the same book of aquinas , where he makes three several schemes of the heathen worship , viz. ( . ) of those who held one first principle , but thought divine worship might be given to inferiour beings . ( . ) of those who supposed god to be the soul of the world . ( . ) of those who worshipped animated images . if the other had been the general opinion of the heathen , he would have ranked it in the first place ; viz. of those who gave divine worship to many independent deities , but he doth not so much as mention it , where it had been very proper to do it . and it is plain from this testimony of aquinas , that it is idolatry to give divine worship to any creatures , although of never so great excellency . r. p. let us come to the fathers i beseech you , for my fingers itch to be at them ; for i see t. g. hath taken more than ordinary pains to prove , that the fathers make the heathens supreme god to be an arch-devil : but it is necessary in the first place to state the question aright . p. d. i think so too . r. p. t. g. hath taken some pains to do it , to prevent misunderstanding . for he takes notice of four several questions which may relate to this matter . ( . ) whether the heathens did not acknowledge one supreme god ? which he yields , and produces several testimonies of the fathers to that purpose . ( . ) whether the heathens did not pretend that they understood this supreme god by jupiter , and accordingly gave him the titles due to the supreme god ? this t. g. denies not , to be fully proved by dr. st. , but he saith all these testimonies are impertinent . ( . ) whether the fathers do not acknowledge that this was pretended by the heathens ? this t. g. accounts impertinent too : for , saith he , they might cite some sayings of the heathen to that purpose , and yet be of a contrary judgement themselves . but the point in debate between the dr. and t. g. is this , ( . ) whether it were the fathers own sense that jupiter was the supreme god ? p. d. i pray tell me for what end were the fathers appealed to in this dispute about the nature of idolatry ? was it not to prove idolatry consistent with the acknowledgement of one supreme god ? for doth not dr. st. propose several ways for the proof of this concerning the heathens , either the testimony of the heathens themselves ; or of the writers of the roman church , or of the scriptures , or of those fathers who disputed against their idolatry , or of the roman church it self ? therefore the fathers were appealed to as witnesses concerning this main point ; and if it appear from them that it was idolatry in the heathens to own a supreme deity and to give divine worship to any created being , then the notion of idolatry will reach to the roman church . but t. g. endeavours to get off from the close debate of this , which was the most pertinent of all , and would fain substitute another question in the place of it , which was but a secondary and accidental dispute occasioned by t. g.'s saying that the heathens supreme god was an arch-devil . although dr. st. hath proved that was not agreeable to the general sense of the fathers , yet any one may see that quite through his discourse his chief aim was at stating the nature of idolatry according to the sense of the fathers . from justin martyr he shews that the question between the christians and heathens was not about one supreme god , which he acknowledges to be owned by them ; but whether divine worship ought in general to be given to any creature , and in particular to the heathen gods ? and he lays the force of the christian doctrine as to worship upon that peremptory declaration of the will of god ; thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . the same he shews as to athenagoras , clemens alexandrinus , origen , cyril , and all the fathers who managed the dispute against the heathen idolatry . is it impertinent to the right stating the nature of idolatry , to consider whether they who charged the heathens with it , did at the same time confess they owned one supreme god ? doth not t. g. himself grant that it is very material towards the right understanding the nature of idolatry to consider what was the design of the fathers to charge them with idolatry in ? whether in worshipping the creature and not the creator with divine worship ; or in worshipping more gods than one properly so called ; ( which he seems to fix the heathen idolatry upon ) or in giving the same worship to god and his creatures ( which dr. st. asserts ) which notion soever of these be true , it cannot be said to be impertinent for dr. st. to prove his notion to be the sense of the fathers . and if the heathens did acknowledge one supreme god , as t. g. grants , and the fathers do allow this in their disputes of idolatry ; which t. g. cannot deny ; then the question comes to this , whether they charged them with idolatry only for neglecting to worship the supreme god which they owned ; or in holding one supreme and many supremes at the same time ? for if they believed one supreme god , as t.g. grants , and yet held many independent deities which they worshipped as such , they must hold one supreme and yet many ; for every independent deity must be supreme . i wonder therefore if t. g. designed to debate this matter fairly , why he should account the other questions impertinent ; and account that the only point in debate , whether according to the sense of the fathers jupiter was the supreme god ? r. p. do not you remember how dr. st. insulted over him as to the sense of the fathers in this matter ; and had he not reason then to speak to this point ? p. d. i allow him all the liberty he can desire , provided he do not reject the main evidence as to the cause of idolatry to be impertinent ; which he would cut off by this trick , that they do not refer to his question about jupiter . but since you have such a mind to tell me the sense of the fathers in this matter , let us hear and consider them in order . r. p. t. g. begins as dr. st. doth with justin martyr : and he shews from him that the devils appearing in humane shapes were the first beginners of idolatry , the people taking them for gods , and worshipped their images . p. d. this is no great discovery to dr. st. for he takes notice of this very opinion of justin martyr . r. p. but he makes jupiter to have been one of these devils in his first apology , where he saith , the poets and mythologists not knowing that the angels and daemons begotten by them had been the authors of the infamous practises he there speaks of , attributed them to god himself and to the sons begotten by him , and to those who are called his brethren , neptune and pluto . p. d. what follows from hence i beseech you ? r. p. that according to the sense of justin martyr , jupiter the supreme god was a devil . p. d. that should be better proved ; for how doth it follow from justins words ? that which justin saith is , that what he attributes to devils , the poets attribute to god himself and his sons : and what then ? it thence follows that justin thought they attributed very unworthy things to god , but not that he thought him to be a devil . for doth not the same author prove that their poets as well as philosophers did own one supreme god , and that homer calls him emphatically , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is the very expression justin useth in this place , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and by that he saith , is meant the truly existent deity , whom he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . r. p. but justin saith , the devils were the causes of idolatry , and the poets say the true god was the cause , therefore according to justin martyr their true god was a devil . p. d. which is just like this kind of reasoning . the poets and mythologists of the roman church attribute the miracles wrought by images to the true god ; others say , they are wrought by the power of the devil ; therefore they make the papists god to be a devil . which is altogether as true reasoning as the former . for justin saith , he believes idolatry to have come from the devils , the poets they say it came from god : and although he quotes this opinion of theirs , it doth not follow that he thought their god to be a devil ; but that they attributed those things to god , which did come from the devil . so much for the first testimony , let us come to the next ; and if the rest prove like it , notwithstanding t. g.'s fluttering , all his fathers will be but a covie of one still . r. p. the next is , athenagoras , who first shews from what the poets and historians relate concerning the heathen gods , that there was nothing that might induce us to believe saturn , jupiter , proserpine and the rest of them to be gods , but rather that they were men , and by their actions devils : and then that jupiter according to the interpretation of the philosophers was no god. p. d. is not this , the same athenagoras who said , that the generality of mankind were agreed in this , whether they would or no , that there was but one god ? and who proves this from the testimony of the heathen poets and philosophers , and that with the very name of jupiter too ? 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . doth athenagoras yield this to be a good proof concerning one true god , and yet deny the true god to be meant by jupiter ? no ; but we must consider a threefold sense of jupiter among the fathers . ( . ) the original jupiter , the father of gods and men among the poets , the supreme mind and governour of the world among the philosophers ; the one god confessed by all mankind ; whom athenagoras mentions under that name , in the verses of euripides . and if athenagoras took this jupiter for a devil , he doth not prove any thing to his purpose from those testimonies of the poets and philosophers . for his design was to vindicate the christians in holding the vnity of the godhead , which i desire t. g. to observe ; you accuse us , saith athenagoras , because we reject your popular gods , and assert one god ; yet saith he , you condemn not your poets and philosophers who applyed themselves most to the consideration of things , and agree with us in the vnity of the godhead . what force were there in this argument ; if the god they owned were not the true god , but an arch-devil ? how could the christians plead the consent of the wiser heathens with them , if they owned a devil instead of the true god ? suppose any loyal subjects in the late times had been accused as enemies to the government , would it have passed for any vindication of them to have pleaded that they owned o. c. who was a single person , as well as our lawful king ? it is true , they both agreed in a single person , but the rights of those two single persons were so opposite to each other , that the same men could not be friends to both , or both be said to own the same monarchy . but when the christians pleaded the consent of the heathens , it was not meerly to purge themselves from atheism ; but to shew that the wisest heathens were of their mind ; as t. g. confesseth , the fathers appealed to the testimony of the consciences of men to this purpose , as giving evidence for christians , ( mark that ) what evidence was this for christians , unless it were not only for one god , but for the true god ? for they who did own one god , who was so far from being the true , that in the fathers judgement , he was the greatest enemy to him in the world , viz. an arch-devil ; these were far from giving testimony to the christians ; as who would say , that the indians who worship the devil do give testimony to the true god ? if therefore it was the arch-devil , as t. g. saith , whom the poets and philosophers according to the fathers , did give testimony to , instead of producing their evidence as they did on all occasions , they ought to have rejected it with scorn and indignation . for what consent could there be between god and the devil ? if the fathers thought they owned one supreme devil , and yet produced their testimonies to justifie their belief of one true god , it would have been just , as if the kings subjects should have said to o. c.'s friends ; why are you angry with us for not submitting to his government ; since d. and h. and p. and the rest , own a single person as well as we ? true , would they have said , but our difference is the more irreconcileable , for you are for one single person and we for another ; and their interests can never be united , there being a competition between them for the same power . thus when athenagoras and the rest of the fathers produce the testimonies of euripides , sophocles , plato , aristotle , &c. to shew their consent with the christians in the acknowledgement of one supreme god ; we will suppose the emperour antoninus to whom athenagoras addressed himself , to ask him this question , you produce their testimonies to prove their consent with you as to one supreme god ; do you mean the same god ; or an vsurper and an arch-devil ? if you think it was not the same , but his utter enemy , what madness is it to produce those who owned him whom you account the greatest usurper , to prove a consent with you , who pretend to discover his usurpation , and do cry out upon him as the greatest enemy to god and mankind ? if you think they meant the same god with you , who is the lord and governour of the world , we cannot deny the force of your allegations , and judge it unreasonable to condemn you for that doctrine , which the wisest among our selves did own . since therefore t. g. confesseth that the heathens did own one supreme god , and that under the name of jupiter , and that the fathers do produce many testimonies of theirs to that purpose : and that , as it appears , to shew their consent with christians as to the unity of the godhead , as athenagoras saith expresly ; what can follow more naturally from hence , than that the fathers did look upon that jupiter whom they owned to be the one supreme god , to be the same true god , whom the christians worshipped ? and when athenagoras produced the testimony of plato concerning the maker and father of the vniverse , he immediately adds , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 · · understanding thereby one unbegotten and eternal god. was this meant by athenagoras of the true god , or of the arch-devil ? and from hence he argues thus ; if plato's opinion were not impious or atheistical , neither is ours who hold the same god who made the world . what force is there in this arguing , if athenagoras did not look on plato's god and the christians to be the same ? and in another place speaking of plato's saying concerning jupiter , that he rides first in heaven upon his winged chariot , ordering and disposing all things ; and an army of gods and daemons follows him ; he subjoyns this caution , that this is not to be understood of jupiter the son of saturn ; but that this name belongs to the maker of all things . can there be a plainer testimony than this , that there was a more ancient and greater jupiter than the son of saturn , and he no less than the maker of the world ? when athenagoras himself makes this distinction , and owns that the name of jupiter belongs to the maker of all things , is it possible to think that by this jupiter , athenagoras did not mean the supreme god but an arch-devil ? but he goes on and saith , that plato added the word great to jupiter , on purpose to distinguish the celestial jupiter from the terrestrial , and him that was unbegotten , from him that was begotten ; and not only junior to the heaven and earth , but to the cretans who stole him away to prevent his being killed by his father . ( . ) the poetical jupiter . of him athenagoras speaks , when he joyns him with saturn and proserpina . where he mentions the poetical theology ; and he saith , that orpheus , homer , and hesrod were not much inferiour in age to the gods they describe , as to their genealogies , shapes , actions and passions ; which he shews at large to be unworthy of any who are called gods. towards the latter end of his apology , he gives the true account of these things , viz. that those whom they worshipped for gods had formerly been men of interest and power , and either through fear or flattery had divine worship given to them ; and particularly of jupiter , he proves from callimachus , that he was born in creet , although the poet will by no means allow that he died and had a sepulchre there . from hence he shews , that under the names of deified men the evil spirits did assume the divine worship which was given to themselves ; which he proves from the cruel and impure actions which they did put men upon . he shews , that the image of neryllinus who lived in their time did give answers to those who consulted it ; and so did that of proteus , or lucians peregrinus , who cast himself into the fire at olympia ; since therefore the images themselves could not do these things , nor those whose images they were , he concludes they were evil spirits who were busie about those images , and wrought upon the imaginations of those who came to consult them . and who denies that these were evil spirits which drew men to idolatry , and encouraged them in it , as athenagoras observes , who under the names of great men did assume divine worship to themselves ? and in this sense dr. st. never denied that jupiter of creet was a false god , and the devil under his name drew men to the practice of gross idolatry . ( . ) the allegorical jupiter . for athenagoras saith , that the poetical fables were so filthy and base , that the philosophers had no other way , but to turn them into allegories ; and to interpret them physically of the nature and mixture of the elements . and thus according to empedocles , jupiter was fire , juno earth , pluto air , nestis water . however , saith athenagoras , these are but elements , and parts of matter , and therefore cannot be gods , nor deserve divine worship . the stoicks made jupiter to be fire , juno air , neptune water . others made one part of air to be jupiter , and another juno : however they cooked and dressed their allegories , they were but pork still ; it could arise no higher than a worship of the elements instead of god. and now let any one judge how sufficiently t. g. hath proved from athenagoras , that the supreme god of the heathens was an arch-devil . i pray proceed to your next . r. p. theophilus antiochenus saith , that neither the mother of the gods , nor her children are gods , but idols , the works of mens hands , and most impure devils : which t.g. saith , was cited by him in the same page with origen before , although dr. st. makes so much sport with him about crying out the fathers , when he named , he saith , only origen . p. d. and was not this true ? doth t. g. name any more than origen to prove that jupiter according to the fathers was an arch-devil ? look the place and you will find it punctually true . i grant he mentions theophilus antio●hemis in the same page ; but to what purpose ? not to prove the supreme god an arch-devil ; but the inferiour deities to be inferiour devils : which was a thing never denyed by dr. st. and therefore this testimony signifies as little now , as it did before . r. p. but you will not so easily reconcile tertullians testimonies with dr. st. 's abominable pretence , as t. g. calls it , that the god of the romans was the true god. p. d. it is one thing to say , the god of the romans was the true god , and another to say , they did worship the true god under the title of jupiter o. m. for the former may imply that they had no other gods besides him to whom they gave divine worship ; which i dare say never came into dr. st.'s head . but all that he asserted was , that the romans did own and worship the supreme god under the titles of jupiter o. m. and gave such characters and descriptions of him as could agree to none but the lord and governour of the world : which he proved from many testimonies of cicero , seneca , and others the gravest of the roman writers . and what doth tertullian say to take off these testimonies ? r. p. first , he saith , we are not ignorant that those who act and are pleased and counterfeit a divinity under those names ( of dead men ) and consecrated statues , are wicked spirits , i. e. devils . p. d. and what then i beseech you ? was jupiter o. m. one of these dead men ? if not , to what purpose is this testimony brought ; unless it be as countrey people say , for want of a better ? r. p. not so , for he saith elsewhere , we worship one god whom ye all know by the light of nature : as for the rest whom you think to be gods , we know them to be devils . p. d. admirable ! who can stand before such demonstrations ? tertullian here grants they all knew the true god , therefore the supreme god of the romans was a devil . he might as well have brought another testimony out of the book de spectaculis ; no man can be ignorant of that which nature suggests , that god is the maker of the world. were the romans ignorant of that , which tertullian saith , no man could be ignorant of ? and when they made use of the most proper epithets of good and great to describe and worship him by ; is it probable they should not understand him ? or that tertullian should think their supreme god was an arch-devil ; when he saith in the words cited by t. g. he was the same god whom the christians worshipped ? doth t.g. consider what he writes ? when he puts down this for a testimony against dr. st. we worship one god whom ye all know by the light of nature . doth it not hence follow , that the god whom the gentiles knew , was the same whom the christians worshipped ? and he was not certainly an arch-devil . i pray judge , whose pretence is the more abominable upon his own testimonies . r. p. for all this , tertullian shews , that jupiter worshipped in the capitol was not the true god. for speaking of the supplications the heathens made there , he saith , they were averse both from god and heaven . p. d. and had he not great-reason to say so , when he saith , the romans with full bellies , and wallowing in all kind of luxury , did offer up their sacrifices to obtain rain , and thought to have it drop down from the capitol upon them , if the people went barefoot thither ? doth not god himself tell the jews they were far from him , when they seemed most to draw nigh unto him ? i. e. their sacrifices and oblations signified nothing , while they continued in their sins . i should not stick to say that intemperate and wicked men are averse both from god and heaven , though they walk barefoot and make the richest presents to the true god. but how doth this prove they did not intend to worship the true god there ? although withal their worship , even in the capitol , was idolatrous worship ; both as to the image of jupiter , and the conjunction of other gods with him ; therefore whatever their intention was as to the worship of jupiter o. m. their supplications might well be displeasing to the true god ; and on that account they might be said to be averse from god and heaven . r. p. i have another testimony of tertullian still good ; which if i mistake not will put you hard to it . it is in his apologetick . we are esteemed not to be romans but injurious to them , because we do not worship the god of the romans . 't is well , he is the god of all , whether we will or no. but among you it is lawful to worship any thing but the true god ; as if he were not the great god of all , whose no are all . what could be said more express to remove that abominable pretence of the doctors , that the god of the romans was the true god ? p. d. i see no reason in the world for your accounting the doctors pretence abominable , unless he justified the way of worship then used , which he confesseth to be abominable both in the old romans and others who too much imitate their idolatries . observe , that tertullian speaks of their worship , which being idolatrous , the christians had just reason to refuse joyning with the romans in it . from hence they were accused for worshipping another god from him whom the romans worshipped , and tertullian before mentions the several suspicions which they had concerning the god of the christians ; some said it was the head of an ass , some the cross , some the sun , and some set forth a ridiculous picture with the ears of an ass , a book and a gown , and called this the god of the christians . tertullian upon this declares that the christians worshipped the god that made the world and none else ; or as he said to scapula , the god whom all men know by nature . and in that very chapter from whence those words are cited , he saith , it was the common opinion among the romans , that there was one god higher and more powerful than all the rest , of perfect wisdom and majesty : for the greatest part , saith he , did make this scheme of divinity , that the chief power lay in one god , to whom the rest were only ministerial and subservient . i am afraid t. g. will allow my sense of these words no more than he is wont to do dr. st.'s . i will therefore give you tertullians own words . nam & sic plerique disponunt divinitatem , ut imperium summae dominationis esse penes unum , officia ejus penes multos velint . which words are of mighty weight and consequence in this matter , towards the right understanding tertullians meaning . here we see from whence aquinas had his plures eorum , and in what sense it must be understood . from hence it appears , that the generality of the heathens did not assert a multitude of independent gods : nor were charged with idolatry on that account . and to let us see whom they meant by this supreme god , he produces in the next words the place of plato mentioned by athenagoras of the great jupiter in heaven with his army of gods and demons . r. p. but tertullian saith , the christians did not worship the god of the romans ; and the romans would not suffer them to worship the true god : how could this be , if they did own and worship the true god ? p. d. i will tell you , the god of the romans was he who was worshipped after an idolatrous manner in the capitol and elsewhere : the christians chose rather to to dye than to worship god after this manner : the romans would permit no other kind of worship than their own : and when the christians refused to joyn in their worship , they could not believe , let them say what they would , that they worshipped that god whom all men know by the light nature . the god of the romans is the god worshipped after the roman manner ; as the god of the jews , of the turks , and of the christians is the god worshipped according to those several laws , although he be the same god in himself the maker and governour of the world. this place then doth imply no more , than that the roman religion as it stood at that time and the christian were inconsistent ; but it doth not follow from hence that the romans did not intend to worship the supreme god under the title of jupiter o. m. r. p. before we leave tertullian , i have something more to say to you concerning him : it is about a passage of his book ad scapulam cited by dr. st. where he endeavours to prove that the heathens jupiter was the supreme god , by a miracle wrought upon the heathens supplications to him under the name of jove . p. d. are you sure that dr. st. ever meant any such thing ? r. p. t. g. quotes his words , god , saith he , shewed himself to be the powerful god by what he did upon their supplications to him under the name of jove . p. d. but doth not dr. st. expresly say , that it was upon the prayers of christians , that miracle was wrought ? r. p. yes , t. g. takes notice of that , and from thence proves that he wilfully corrupted tertullians text , and makes a very tragical business of it . methinks i see the great dionysius with his birchen scepter walking round him , telling him of his faults , and then one or two lashes ; but lest his pain should be too soon at an end , he takes off his hand , and walks the other turn , with a stern and magisterial countenance bidding others beware , and telling them what an example he will make of him , he laies on again , with such a spring in his arm , and so many repeated strokes , that i even pity the poor doctor , and i could not think dionysius himself could have expressed more severity on such an occasion ; but i consider , it is against an heretick , and it is necessary sometimes to let you see how sharp we can be . p. d. you need not to tell us that ; but we had need to keep out of your lash as long as we can , for we expect no great kindness from you , if ever we fall under it . but why should t. g. think that dr. st. designed to corrupt tertullians sense in that place , when himself had before owned that the miracle was wrought by the prayers of the christians ? he would never have done this , if he intended the other . i do confess the words , as they lye , are capable of that construction t. g. puts upon them ; but in common ingenuity they ought to be understood according to his own former sense of them ; unless the force of the argument lay in the other sense ; which i do not perceive it doth . for dr. st. designed to prove in that place from tertullian , that the heathens did acknowledge one supreme god , from the testimony of their consciences , and lifting up their hands and eyes to heaven upon any great occasion : and then brings in those words before mentioned ; which are there produced for no other end , but to shew that the same powerful god was owned by the gentiles and christians in that famous miracle . he did not intend there to prove , as t. g. suggests , that jupiter whom they worshipped in the capitol was this one supreme being , from the testimony of tertullian and the miracle wrought by god himself upon the heathens supplications to him under the name of jove ; and where he did purposely set himself to prove this , he there confesses that the miracle was wrought at the prayers of the christians , and that the whole army made the exclamation , deo deorum & qui solus potens , whereby they did in jovis nomine deo nostro testimonium reddere , saith tertullian ; and dr. st. adds that the heathens did intend this honour to their own jove . from whence it appears that all the force of the argument from this testimony lies in this , that the heathens did confess there was one supreme and powerful god whom they called jove . and this i say in dr. st.'s name is the whole strength and force of his argument , and that he never thought of what t. g. imposes upon him , viz. that god wrought that miracle upon the supplications of the heathens to prove that jove was the true god : which was not necessary to his design . but i do insist upon it , as an invincible proof of that which he intended , the acknowledgement of one supreme god , whom they called jove . i do yield then , that the miracle was wrought by the prayers of the christians ; that the christians did not pray to god under the name of jove ; that the heathens did attribute the honour of the miracle to their jove ; that in the titles they gave to him on this occasion they did give testimony to the mighty power of that god whom the christians worshipped ; i will not deny , that m. aurelius did write a letter to the senate , wherein he acknowledged this miracle to be wrought by the christians , ( although it may be that was not the letter , which is extant in baronius ) but after all these concessions , i say , that dr. st.'s argument holds good , that the heathens did acknowledge one supreme god under the name of jove . for what could the army mean else , by that acclamation , deo deorum & qui solus potens ? from whence it unavoidably follows , that the heathen army did acknowledge one supreme and omnipotent god , whom they called jove : and in antoninus his column at rome , this god is described under the title of jupiter pluvius : therefore according to the sense of the heathen army , this jupiter was deus deorum , & solus potens . t. g. could not but see , that herein lay the strength of dr. st.'s argument ; but he dissembles it , and makes him to aim at what he never thought of , and catching hold of an ambiguous expression , he runs away with that , and uses him with more severity than ever dionysius turned pedant , or reforming stepmother used , which are his own expressions upon a far less occasion . r. p. but tertullian distinguishes the true god from him who was worshipped under the name of jove . p. d. i deny not , that tertullian doth distinguish the worship of the true god from the worship of jove . and when the heathens attributed such miracles to their jupiter , with a design thereby to justifie the heathen worship , the christians had great reason to stand upon this distinction ; and to complain that what the christians obtained by prayers and fasting , they attributed to their jupiter , i. e. what the christians hoped would convince them of their idolatry , they used for an argument to prove that god was not displeased with it . but it doth not follow , from any thing tertullian hath said , that he did not suppose the heathens did not intend to worship the true god under their jupiter , when he confesses the greatest part of them did suppose one supreme god , and that the christians worshipped the same god whom all men knew by the light of nature . r. p. what say you to clemens alexandrinus , who affirms the gods of the heathens to be devils ; and among the rest he reckons up jupiter himself ; so far was he from thinking jupiter to be the true god ? p. d. dr. st. had prevented this objection , by saying that in that place clemens speaks of the poetical theology , and of jupiter of creet ; but withall he shews not only that clemens doth acknowledge that all mankind had a natural knowledge of the true god , but that they meant him under the name of jupiter : and commends the manner of speaking concerning god as grave and decent , where the divine perfections are attributed to jupiter : he quotes a saying of xenocrates wherein he calls god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the supreme jove , and some others of a like nature . which seem to be as plain evidences as dr. st. could desire . and what answer doth t. g. give to them ? r. p. he saith , it doth not follow from hence that it was the sense of clemens himself , that jupiter who was worshipped in the temples was that true god. and his meaning was not to assert jupiter to be that supreme being , but from the epithets and titles of omniscient , omnipotent , &c. which the poets and philosophers attributed unto god under the name of jupiter , to convince them , that there was but one supreme being , maker and governour of the world. p. d. his design then was to convince them of that , which he proves they all knew already . if they had such a knowledge of god , as t. g. grants that clemens doth prove from their testimonies , either it was the true god they knew , or a false god or an arch-devil . if the later , they do not reach to what he brings them for , which was to prove the inbred notion of one supreme disposer of things ; if the former , then all those titles and epithets did express the true god ; according to clemens his own sense of them . but doth t. g. think that they gave the titles and epithets of omnipotent , omniscient , &c. to the devil ? and that clemens believed it at the same time , when he proves from hence that all men have the natural knowledge of god ? if he can think so , he must make clemens a man of much reading , but of no judgement . but i pray reflect a little ; t. g. confesses that clemens saith , that those epithets were attributed to jupiter with a great deal of decency and gravity concerning god ; then according to t. g. the devil may very decently and gravely be said to be an omnipotent and omniscient devil . for i pray observe but this one passage and you will find what pitiful shifts t. g. is put to . the things which the poets attribute to jupiter in express terms clemens saith are spoken with great decorum of god : and at the same time he grants , that they meant god by their jupiter ; what then follows but that although they used the name jupiter , yet under that name they spake those thinks of god which were very agreeable to him . no , saith t. g. this is not his meaning , but that they spake those things concerning their jupiter , which being applied to the true god would be spoken with great gravity and decency . which in plain terms is , that they attributed the perfections of god to the arch-devil , which was very ill done of them one would think , and horrible blasphemy ; but however , saith t. g. these things may be said to be spoken with great gravity and decency concerning god , because if you take them from the devil and apply them to god , they are decent expressions . let us suppose james naylor riding through the streets of bristol assuming to himself the title of the son of god , and some of his followers crying hosanna to the son of david : would t. g. say this were spoken with decency a●d gravity ; because it would be so , if it were rightly applied to his son christ jesus ? t. g. doth not seem here to consider wherein the decency of speech lies ; for there is the greatest indecency , nay blasphemy in the misapplication of the best titles and most glorious attributes . and were there no other reason to convince me of the sense of the fathers in this matter , this alone were sufficient ; that if t. g.'s hypothesis were true , all those great things which the heathens spake of their jupiter were most abominable blasphemies ; for the divine perfections were attributed to the chief of devils . and if to attribute the miraculous works of god to the devil be the sin against the holy ghost ; what then is it to give to the devil all the perfections of god himself ? and yet , if t. g. say true , the fathers must believe that the most learned and wise of the heathens did so , when they spake of the wisdom , and power , and goodness of their supreme jupiter : and if they did believe they were guilty of such horrible blasphemy , would they so often quote , approve , extol these sayings as they do ? would they not rather have reproved , censured , condemned them for them , as the most intolerable reproaches of the divine nature ? would they have born such things in plato , euripides or any other philosopher or poet ? for to call a stone , a stock , a dead man , a god ; to attribute life , sense , understanding to meer matter ; were tolerable blasphemies in comparison with making the devil to be the supreme governour of the world ; to be one and all ; to be infinite wisdom as well as power ; and yet all these must be thus given to the devil by the wisest poets and philosophers which the heathens ever had . nay farther , their best and most understanding men who are most commended by the fathers themselves , must be the greatest blasphemers of all others , and be thought so by the fathers at the same time when they magnifie their sayings , for the wisdom , gravity , and decency contained in them . this is so gross , so wild , so absurd an imagination as could hardly enter into any mans head who had any manner of esteem for the fathers . and i would advise t. g. rather to let the fathers quite alone , than to fix such absurdities upon them . r. p. methinks you are grown very warm of a sudden ; but i have another father to cool you , and he is minucius felix . p. d. he is but a paterculus a very diminutive father , as t. g. speaks ; however i hope he is able to speak for himself . r. p. he saith , the impure spirits lurking in the consecrated statues gained to themselves the authority and esteem of a deity that was there present . p. d. and what then ? how often must you be told , that the question is not , whether the devils were not assisting in the practice of idolatry ? which dr. st. never questioned ; either by presence in consecrated images , or by assuming divine honours under the names of deified men ; but this doth not come up to the question in hand ; which is , whethers the fathers did not believe they did intend to worship the supreme god under the name and titles of jupiter o. m. ? i will make this plain to you , that if possible you may understand the difference of these questions . you know what boasts are made in your church of the miracles wrought by our lady of such and such a place , as of mointague , hall , loretto , &c. what do you mean by this , but that such images which are there of her did effect them , not by the power of the wood or stone , but of some spiritual power which was present in or about them ; suppose now a person who hath heard of the coming of satan with signs and lying wonders , should believe that the evil spirits did endeavour to retrieve idolatry in the christian world after the way by which they advanced it in the heathen world ; and so concludes that they work these pretended miracles , might not such a one say , that impure spirits lurk in your consecrated images , and there receive divine worship under the names of saints and angels ; and yet at the same time believe that you worship one supreme god ? r. p. but here the case is different ; for minucius saith , that saturn , and serapis , and jupiter ( mark that ) confess themselves to be devils . p. d. two wayes jupiter might be a devil , and yet not prejudice dr. st.'s assertion . ( . ) as he assumed the honours given to the poetical jupiter ; who was really a prince of creet ; but the poets by attributing to him the villanies of many others ( as to the ravishing of women , &c. ) had made him one of the greatest monsters of wickedness that ever was ; and therefore it was no wonder the devil should be worshipped under his name ; not intentionally but terminatively , in as much , as all this worship ended in the service of the devil , who was alwayes very active to subdue the minds of men to the folly and wickedness of idolatry . ( . ) as he was busie about consecrated images , even to the supreme jupiter . thus although the greeks and romans might set up images with scepters , and globes , and thunderbolts in their hands , on purpose to declare that they intended to worship the supreme god by them ; yet this way of worship being so disagreeable to the divine nature and perfections , god might justly suffer the impure spirits to be active in those very images , which were consecrated to himself : and they might by this means run away with that honour which they intended to give to the divine majesty . but the question still remains , whether notwithstanding all this , the heathens did not design to worship the supreme god under the name of jove ? and nothing of this nature doth shew that the fathers believed the contrary ; and as to minucius felix , dr. st. had produced a material passage out of him to prove , that they who make jove the chief god , are only deceived in the name , but agree in the power . r. p. i am glad you mention that place ; for t. g. hath at large proved that dr. st. hath corrupted both the sense and words of minucius to make him speak as he would have him . p. d. i am now so used to these false and shameless charges of t. g. about dr. st.'s corrupting of authors , that i dare stand the shock , let t. g. make use of all his strength and skill . r. p. t. g. saith , that minucius intended nothing less than to assert jupiter to be the one supreme god ; but that he argued only ad hominem ( as we say ) from what the wiser heathens pretended they thought of jupiter , that they ought to acknowledge but one supreme god , maker and governour of the world : and the design and sense of minucius was this , that although they were deceived in their pretence of assigning jupiter to be the supreme god ; yet by what they affirmed of him , viz. that he was the prince or the chief , and the poets setting forth one father of gods and men , they were sufficiently convinced , that they ought to acknowledge but one supreme and undivided power , by which the world was made and governed ; which was the point minucius was proving in that place . but the dr. by putting in and leaving out what he thought might make for his advantage , hath corrupted the very text of minucius , to make it speak his sense . p. d. a very heavy charge ! but what if there be no ground for all this ? is not t. g. a man of admirable dexterity , and unparallel'd ingenuity ? i will take t. g.'s own translation of the words ; and if from thence all that dr. st. saith , doth follow , there can be certainly no cause for all these clamours . those also , saith he , who will have jupiter to be the prince or chief , are deceived in the name , but agree as to the vnity of power . the matter lies within a narrow compass : either they who agreed as to the vnity of power and called that power by the name of jove did mean the same god with minucius , or not . if they meant the same god , dr. st. gives the true sense of minucius , for then they who make jove the chief god are only deceived in the name and agree in the power : ( and it is ridiculous pedantry to quarrel at his translating , qui jovem principem volunt , they who make jove the chief god : and for putting in only , it is no more than the sense implyes , for if they agree in the thing , they must be only deceived in the name . ) this is therefore the single point to be debated , whether according to minucius they understood the same god or not ? and to make this out i desire no other method than what t. g. proposes , viz. to consider the design of minucius in that place . providence being supposed , he saith , the question is whether the world be governed by one , or more , and after other arguments for monarchical government in general , he produces the consent of mankind in lifting up their hands to heaven , and calling upon god , and saying , god is great , god is true , and if god give . is this , saith he , the voice of nature in the common people , or the confession of a christian ? where nothing can be more evident , than the consent between the voice of nature , and the confession of a christian as to the same god. and then it immediately follows . et qui jovem principem volunt , falluntur in nomine , sed de unâ potestate consentiunt . these agree too as to the vnity of power , who would have jove to be chief . is there not all the reason that may be , to understand this agreement to be with those mentioned before ; viz. the common people and christians , who all consent in the vnity of power ; but these call that power by the name of jove ; and although minucius thinks they are deceived in attributing that name to god , yet he yields that they agreed in the thing . this is the plain and easie sense of minucius ; let us now consider t. g.'s sense of these words , and see how well that agrees with his design . his sense is this ; they who would have jupiter to be the prince or chief , were agreed as to the vnity of power , but were so much deceived , not only in the name , but in the thing it self , that they attributed this power , not to god but to the devil . for , saith t. g. minucius his own thoughts were , that this jupiter was a devil . let this be supposed , and his meaning is this , the common people call upon god , and say , god is true , god is great ; and therein agree with the confession of christians ; and they who will have jove , i. e. the devil to be the chief of gods , do agree as to the vnity of power . they who make god to be chief , and the devil to be chief , do both agree that one is chief i grant : but will any man of common sense say only that these are deceived in the name , who thinks at the same time , they mean the devil ? are they not deceived in much more than the name , in the very thing it self ? do they not set up an vsurper instead of god , and his most inveterate enemy , and attribute infinite and undivided power to him ? and is this dwindling expression fit for a christian , to say only , falluntur in nomine , they are deceived in the name ? no : but he ought to have told them , they were deceived much more in the thing than in the name . it was but a trifle in comparison what name they used , if their sense and meaning were good . call him jove or what they pleased , if they meant the same thing , it was only a difference about a name : but if they did really attribute the divine perfections to the devil , this was a crime of the highest nature , it was notorious blasphemy ; and no true christian could pass it over so gently and slightly , as minucius doth , if he were of t. g.'s opinion . but to convince us that he was far from it ; he afterwards produces the consent of philosophers with the christians , so he saith , ( in the same page of the leyden edition ) that they did consent with them : and surely it was no consent with christians to give the divine perfections to the devil . speaking of thales , he saith , vides philosophi principalis nobiscum penitus opinionem consonare . ( i forbear to translate lest t. g. should want matter to fill up some empty pages as he did by proving that volunt doth not signifie making , &c. ) however , minucius shews , that this prince of philosophers did fully agree with the christians . wherein i beseech you ? in attributing that power to the devil which they give to god ? this is an agreement which i dare say , no christian would ever own . and therefore it must be , in acknowledging the same divine being which the christians did . and after he hath reckoned up the several opinions of the most noted philosophers , he hath this remarkable expression ; exposui opiniones omnium fere philosophorum , quibus illustrior gloria est deum unum multis licet designasse nominibus : i have set down the opinions of almost all the famous philosophers , who all set forth one god though under many names : and lest any should fall into t. g.'s extravagant imagination , that this was not a consent in the same being , but as to a meer vnity of power , though lodged in the devil himself , he adds these words , vt quivis arbitretur , aut nunc christianos philosophos esse , aut philosophos fuisse jam tunc christianos . let t. g. construe this to his sense , if he can for his heart . would any man in the world , who believed the heathens supreme god to be the devil , have said , either that the christians now were philosophers , or the philosophers then were christians : i. e. that those who asserted that god , and those who said , the devil were supreme governour of the world , were of the same opinion . which is so foolish , so ridiculous an assertion , that i wonder to find t. g. resolve to maintain it . and i now desire you , or any man to judge whether the half dozen fathers t. g. hath produced before origen can amount to a covie of one. i have exercised great patience in examining these testimonies , and not after t. g.'s way turned off all the rest , because one was defective ; and if you have any more that speak to the point , i am content to give you all the satisfaction you can desire , provided they prove more than that in general , the gentiles sacrificed to devils , which was never denied . r. p. t. g. produces the testimonies of eusebius , athanasius , s. cyprian , s. chrysostom , s. hierom and others . p. d. to what purpose ? r. p. to prove that they were wicked spirits who delighted in their worship and sacrifices . p. d. who ever denyed this ? will t. g. quote the fathers from one end to the other to prove that all men are sinners ? name me those who seem to speak to the poin● , and i will answer them . r. p. you cannot deny that arnobius , lactantius , and s. augustin do speak to the point about jove being worshipped as the supreme god , will you hear them ? p. d. yes ; what have you to say more about them ? r. p. arnobius saith , that jupiter o. m. to whom the capitol was dedicated was not the true omnipotent god : and lactantius makes jupiter the king of those celestial gods , which the evil spirits feigned . p. d. are not these the two persons whom dr. st. goes about to excuse for applying the poetical fables to jupiter o. m. ? r. p. that is a fine way of defending the fathers , to take the parts of the heathens against them ; as dr. st. doth . p. d. he never doth it as to the main of the cause , as to any of them ( which were to take the part of idolatry against christianity ; which in my opinion , others are far more lyable to the guilt of than he ) nor doth he charge any of them with wholly mistaking the state of the question ; but he instanceth in two rhetoricians ( who must be excused in many other things , as it were easie to shew ) and he saith of them , that they could not forbear giving a cast of their former imployment in this matter . and when dr. st. saith , we ought not to charge the heathens with more than they were guilty of ; doth t. g. think we ought ? but i am of another opinion , though we should grant their supreme god to be a devil , for we ought to give the devil his due . r. p. but what say you to s. augustin whom dr. st. represents as the most baffled by the heathens in this point ? is not this kind of procedure more suitable to the design of julian , than of the reformation ? p. d. cannot a man write against your idolatry , but he must be another julian ? i. e. a man cannot write like a christian , but he must be an apostate . are you the only christians in the world ? and your peculiar doctrines the only christianity ? if it be , it is a christianity , which the christian church never knew in its best ages ; a christianity never taught by christ nor his apostles . but for s. augustin , i do not find that dr. st. thinks him in the least baffled in this matter ; but being a learned and ingenuous man , he saith , that he quitted the argument from the poetical fables concerning jupiter , and reduced the controversie to its true point , about the idolatry committed in the worship of inferiour deities . but what an itch of calumniating had seized t. g. when he could not hold from paralleling dr. st. with julian meerly for giving an account of the state of the controversie about idolatry , as it was managed by s. augustin ? r. p. this leads us into another weighty subject , viz. on what account the fathers charged the heathens with idolatry . p. d. i grant it is so , and tends very much to the right understanding the nature of it . and what account doth t. g. give of it ? r. p. i assure you t. g. shews himself to be a man very well versed in the fathers , and seems to have them at his fingers ends ; nay , he hath such great plenty of them , that they serve him not only for freight but for ballast too ; filling his margent as well as his book with them : and had he not studied brevity , he might have outdone the dr. himself in being voluminous . p. d. no doubt of it ; if he had a mind to produce all that the fathers say on the subject of heathen idolatry ; but let us pare off all impertinencies which tend only to amuse and confound a reader , and keep close to our subject . tell me on what account t. g. saith , the fathers did charge the heathens with idolatry . r. p. i suppose it may be reduced to these following . ( . ) in worshipping their images for gods. ( . ) in worshipping a multitude of false gods. ( . ) in worshipping the creatures and not the creator . and as to every one of these he shews how false dr. st.'s parallel is of the heathen idolatry and the worship practised and allowed in our church . p. d. i pray begin with the first of these ; and let us hear what account t. g. gives of the heathen idolatry in the worship of images . r. p. the images , he saith , were erected to the memory of dead men , whom the people out of flattery or affection had placed in heaven ; but evil spirits as it were incorporated themselves in those images ; and by working strange things about those who worshipt them , they gained the reputation of gods ; and consequently the images were held to be gods , and worshipped as such . p. d. i am far from being satisfied with this account of the heathen idolatry in the worship of images . for when a man pretends to give an account of a thing , there are three things he ought to regard ; first , that it be full ; secondly , that it be clear and distinct ; thirdly , that it be general . but i shall shew you , that this account fails in all those particulars , and withall that it doth not clear the image worship of the roman church . ( . ) that it is not full , because it supposes all their idolatry as to images to lye in taking the images of deified men for gods on the account of the presence of evil spirits in them . but i find another reason alledged out of the fathers against the worship of images by dr. st. which t. g. takes no notice at all of ; viz. that image worship was very unsuitable to the divine nature , as well as repugnant to the will of god ; and although the latter reason may seem to hold only for those who received the scriptures , yet the former doth extend to all mankind . for he shews from the fathers , that zeno the stoick , antisthenes , xenophon , numa and others condemned the worship of images on this account , because they were a disparagement of the divine nature . and for this , he produces the testimonies of clemens alexandrinus , justin martyr , athenagoras , origen , lactantius and many others . is this account true , or false ? if false , why is it not proved to be so ? if true , why is it not allowed ? is this fair or honest dealing , in pretending to answer , and not taking notice of the main objections ; or to give account of the fathers opinions of this matter , and to say not one word to all this ? but it is one thing to write an answer to a book , and another to write a book which must pass for an answer . ( . ) this account is not clear and distinct . for it doth not express whether it were idolatry or not , to worship images , where there was no incorporation supposed of evil spirits , nor doth it shew how it could be idolatry on that supposition . i do not deny , that there was such an opinion among the heathens , that spirits might possess images , and be incorporated with them ; but i say this was a particular opinion , and not the general belief . for hermes , from whom s. augustin gives the most exact account of this hypothesis ( from the asclepian dialogue ) looks upon it as a divine and peculiar art of drawing invisible spirits into images in such a manner as to animate them ; and thereby making gods. which , he saith , is the most wonderful of all wonders , that it should be in mens power to make gods. not by producing the divine being ; but by so uniting it to the image , as to make that a fit object for divine worship . but you of the church of rome pretend to do as much as this comes to with five words ; and somewhat more , for you pretend to annihilate a substance which they did not : but as to the main wonder , yours is of the same nature , viz. so to unite the divinity to the species of bread and wine , as to make them together a fit object for divine worship . and therefore t. g. doth not at all clear the nature of idolatry , as to images , by such an hypothesis which doth justifie the worship of images upon his own grounds . for this principle being supposed , that god was really incorporated in the image , it was as lawful for them to worship that image , as for you to worship the host. if you say , those were evil spirits , and not the true god , that doth not clear the matter . for we are not now disputing whether they were good or bad spirits which were in those images ; but on what account they were charged with idolatry in the worship of images . if it were for worshipping their images as gods on the account of one of their gods being incorporated in the image , this i say , is no account at all on t. g.'s principles : for then such an image was as fit an object of worship , on their supposition , as the adoration of the host is on yours . so that this is rather a clearing the worship of images from the charge of idolatry among the heathens , than giving any account of it : all the idolatry in this case lying in the worship of evil spirits , and not in the worship of images . ( . ) this account is not general as to the heathens . for many and those the most learned among them declared , that they did not take their images for gods ; as dr. st. proved in his first book , not barely from the testimonies of the heathens , but from the fathers too ; which passages he repeated and urged against t. g. in his defence . and among others he produced the testimony of eusebius speaking of the heathens in general , who saith , they did not look on their images as gods ; and of him , t. g. saith , that no man understood the heathens principles better . and yet after all this , t. g. hopes to have it pass for a good account of the heathens idolatry as to images , that they took their images for gods. ( . ) this account doth not clear the practice of your church in the worship of images . r. p. there i am sure you are mistaken . for do we take our images for gods ? and t. g. well observes , that when the fathers spake against the worship of images , from their vileness and impotency ; they did not found their arguments meerly on the matter of the images , and the art of the artificers , but upon these two conditions conjoyntly taken , viz. that they were held to be gods and yet were made of such materials ; whereas we do not believe our images to be gods , nor worship them as such , as the heathens did . for the council of trent declares that it believes no divinity in them , for which they ought to be worshipped . p. d. this is the utmost which can be said in your defence ; and to shew you how far this is from clearing your worship of images , i shall consider , ( . ) the force of the fathers arguments . ( . ) the difference of the heathens opinions from yours as to the divinity of images . and if their arguments be such as equally hold against your practises ; and your answers do not really differ from theirs ; then the parallel will hold good between your idolatry and theirs in this particular . . for the force of the fathers arguments ; the thing to be considered is , whether they held only in conjunction with believing their images to be gods. what connexion was there between this hypothesis , and the disparagement which images did imply to the divine nature ? for this was wholly on the account of representation ; ( and this is the great argument the fathers insist upon . ) the infinite distance between god and the work of mens hands ; the disproportion that dull and senseless matter , however carved and adorned doth bear to a divine majesty : that no image of god ought to be worshipped ; but what is what he is ; i. e. his eternal son ; the light of nature teaching men that it was greater purity of worship , greater reverence to the deity , less danger of errour to mankind to worship god without an image ; are all arguments used and pressed by the fathers against the worship of images ; which have their full strength and force supposing nothing were intended beyond bare representation . what think you of the christian church condemning the carpocratians for worshipping an image of christ ? did they believe christ incorporated in that image too ? or did epiphanius believe him to be so in the image on the veil , or the council of elvira in the pictures upon walls ? by all which we see what numbers of arguments the fathers used against the worship of images , which have no relation at all to the believing their images to be gods. besides , several other arguments they used which would lose their force upon this supposition ; as those taken from the meanness of subjecting our selves to vile and senseless images ; and all the enforcements drawn from the matter and form of them ; which would have no great strength if this had been the general belief of the heathens , that the god whom they worshipped was incorporated in the image : and therefore why might not he be worshipped thereby , as well as god incarnate in humane nature , notwithstanding all the vileness and contemptibleness of our flesh ? . as to the difference between them and you about the divinity of images , i do grant , that your church doth in terms declare against it . and so in probability would a council of the wiser heathens have done ; as appears by the testimonies of celsus , julian , maximus tyrius and many others . but when men attribute such divine effects , as miraculous cures to images , what can they believe but there is some divinity either in or about them ? and when this is assigned as the reason of the worship of such an image , as at loretto , or mointague , or elsewhere ; and of the mighty resort thither on that account ; what is this but to believe such divinity to be in or about them ? which doth inhance the peoples devotion to them . and this was the general perswasion of the heathens ; not , that there was an hypostatical union between the deity and the image by incorporation : but that there was a vertual and powerful presence of the deity in and about the image by reason of its dedication . and upon this account of a more peculiar presence of the deity after consecration , and because divine worship was given to them , it was that the heathen images were called gods. according to minucius his account of the image-god ; quando igitur hic nascitur ? ecce funditur , fabricatur , scalpitur ; nondum deus est : ecce plumbatur , construitur , erigitur ; nec adhuc deus est : ecce ornatur , consecratur , oratur ; tunc postremo deus est , cum homo illum voluit & dedicavit . from which it appears , it was solemn dedication and divine worship which made the heathen images to be looked on as gods. and on these accounts the scripture as well as fathers call the heathen idols by the name of gods , in the places produced by t. g. as , when they are said to be molten gods , lev. . . and the gods of the nations are idols , isa. . , , &c. where st. hierom observes , that the residue thereof is made a god , when the maker worships what he has made ; and begs for help from the work of his own hands . and in this sense i grant the heathens did make their images gods ; and so do all those who give divine worship to them . r. p. but dr. st. seems to say , that there never were any such fools in the world who worshipped their images as gods : which t. g. proves abundantly from plain and express words of scripture . p. d. by the very same i have mentioned already : and which in the former sense dr. st. never denied . all that he saith , is this , as though there ever had been such fools in the world , to say there was no other god besides their images : and as i remember he quotes maimonides , saying there were none such . but if t. g. can find out such fools in the world , by my consent , he shall have the begging of them . r. p. t. g. grants there were some of the wiser heathens , who did not worship their images as gods , but the deities represented by them : against these the fathers prove at large , that they were but men whom they commonly worshipped , and some of the worst of men . p. d. wherein did the nature of this idolatry lye ? in worshipping bad men instead of good ? or in giving divine worship to any men ? r. p. you are so troublesome , that you will not let a man shew his skill in the fathers , but you interrupt him with such idle questions . p. d. i have a mind to bring you to our business ; for nothing is more easie than to tell long stories of the heathen idolatries out of the fathers . i must press you again to tell me , wherein the nature of this idolatry consisted . r. p. i shall desire you as you are a lover of truth , to answer me ingenuously but this one question , which i take to be very material towards the true understanding the nature of idolatry , viz. whether you do not think that the heathens , at least the generality of them did not acknowledge and worship more gods than one ? p. d. i will answer you as freely as you can desire , provided you answer me another question which i take to be as material , viz. whether the generality of the heathens did not worship deified men ? r. p. what need you ask that , when i have told you already ? t. g. takes a great deal of pains to prove it from many testimonies of the fathers : as i was about to have shewed when you interrupted me ; because the places of their birth were known and their sepulchres extant , &c. p. d. i pray remember this ; and now ask what questions you please . r. p. i see you have no mind to answer : but t. g. proves that the generality of the heathens did believe them , whom they publickly worshipped , to be truly and properly gods , and not only in name , or by way of participation . p. d. but have you forgotten already , what you so lately told me , that t. g. proved that the generality of the heathens did worship deified-men ? and that these were their gods ; viz. jupiter , saturn , juno , aesculapius , &c. i pray consider , were these their gods or not ? r. p. doubtless they were ; for t.g. hath plainly demonstrated it from the fathers . p. d. and were those who were only deified-men , truly and properly gods and not by way of participation ? r. p. i confess you stagger me , surely t. g. did not lay these two assertions together , that the heathen gods were originally men , and yet were truly and properly gods ; but he proves this later assertion , that i am sure of . p. d. so you were but just now of the former ; however these contradict each other , let us hear his proofs of this later , which is not so true as the former . r. p. first , the whole christian world till dr. st. did ever condemn the heathens of polytheism . p. d. and so doth he too . only he doth not believe deified-men to be independent deities . they were gods as they gave them not barely the name and title of gods ; but as they supposed them to be admitted into some share in administring the affairs of the world ; and had therefore divine worship given unto them . r. p. secondly , the heathens accused the christians of atheism , because they denied them to be gods who were publickly worshipped . p. d. the heathens did not believe there was any such god who disallowed the worship of any other gods besides him ; and therefore when they found the christians utterly reject their worship , they charged them with atheism . but is not this an admirable way of reasoning , from the heathens objections against the christians ? might he not prove as well that the christians god had asses ears , that they eat children , that they had promiscuous conjunctions , &c. for all these were objected by the heathens , as well as atheism ? and athenagoras whom t. g. cites , shews what kind of gods those were , whom the christians rejected , in the very beginning of his apology , such as hector , helena , agamemnon , ericttheus , &c. and because the christians rejected such deities they were accused of atheism ; but doth this prove hector , and agamemnon to have been original and independent gods ? r. p. thirdly , they persecuted the christians to death , and they willingly suffered it , for maintaining there was but one only true god , who deserved divine honour to be given to him . p. d. very true . because they thought it unlawful to give divine worship to any creature whatsoever . but did not the heathens require divine worship to be given to deified-men ? r. p. fourthly , they erected temples , instituted priests , and appointed sacrifices to be offered to them . p. d. that is , they gave them divine worship , and what then ? they did so to deified-men , saith t. g. r. p. fifthly , the fathers bring infinite arguments to prove that those whom the heathens called gods , were not really and truly gods ; which had been a superfluous labour , if the heathens had not believed as well as called them gods. p. d. and did not the same fathers bring infinite arguments to prove that these gods were but men ? their design was to shew that nothing but what was truly and essentially god , could deserve divine worship ; which their vulgar gods were so far from being , that they were meer men , and some of the worst too . r. p. sixthly , many of those who wrote against the heathens had been such themselves ; and therefore would not charge them with more than they were guilty of in this matter . p. d. those were the very men t. g. cited to prove their gods had been men , and had fathers and mothers , and vncles and aunts as other mortals have . r. p. seventhly , the devils perswaded most of the heathens that they were gods , as st. augustin saith , by their fallacious signs and predictions . p. d. st. augustin speaks of their dominion over mankind by reason of idolatry ; which might have been , although the heathens had only worshipped deified men ; but i grant , that the heathens did give divine worship to daemons too ; whom some believed to be intercessors between the gods and men ; carrying up our prayers to them , and bringing down their help to us : as he there expresseth it ; and others thought them to be gods , i. e. a superiour kind of spirits ; however all agreed in giving divine honour to them . but those who believed them to be gods , i. e. of a higher rank than the subservient damons , did not suppose them to be self-existent and independent deities , but to have received their being by participation from god ; and supposing them good , st. augustin thinks their notion of them not much different from what christians have of angels : and that it was a controversie about a name , whether they be called gods or not ; but he is far from thinking it so , whether divine worship were to be given to them ? for this he utterly denies , it being inconsistent with the christian religion , as he proves in the beginning of his tenth book . from whence it appears , that the controversie was not about the name of gods ; but about giving divine worship to any creature . for st. augustin would allow them to call them gods , if they reserved divine worship as peculiar to god ; but if they did give this to them , it was no excuse to call them angels , or inferiour gods ; as the platonists did . and when he saith , the devils had perswaded the greatest part of mankind by their lying wonders that they were gods : his meaning is no more than that they were good spirits ; which he saith , apuleius and others observing them more narrowly found they were not , but a sort of malicious and deceitful beings ; notwithstanding which , he saith , these agreed with the rest in giving divine worship to them . so that whatever men do give divine worship to , that they do make a god of , whatsoever notion they have of its original , and receiving being from another . r. p. eighthly , the wisest of the heathens not only concurred with the vulgar in the external practice of worshipping many gods , but looked on it as a point of state-policy , not to let the people know that they were no gods whom they worshipped . p. d. and what then i beseech you ? they were rather willing to maintain idolatry , than to hazard the disturbance of government ; therefore the gods whom they worshipped were truely and properly gods. all that follows from hence is , that there were many follies and superstitions among the people , which they thought better to let them alone in , than to run the hazard of all by a change ; that the poets , and painters , and statuaries had tainted the religion of the vulgar with false and unworthy notions of their gods ; and would in spite of laws represent their gods in the publick sports doing things unsitting for men to do or see ; that although they thought it were much better to have these things redressed , yet they had so much greater regard to the safety of the government than to the honour of religion , that they chose rather to let things stand as they found them ; and to joyn with the people in the same acts of publick worship , retaining their opinions to themselves . but we shall have occasion to discourse of these wiser men afterwards . r. p. i have one thing yet more to say , which i am sure ought and will weigh with you more than all the rest . p. d. so it will , if it weighs any thing at all . r. p. it is , that god himself forbids the jews to have any other gods besides him : and yet he doth not forbid the name of gods to be given both to angels and men. p. d. is this the weighty observation ? the bit reserved to close up the stomach with ? god doth allow i grant the name of gods to be given to creatures ; but where doth he allow divine worship internal or external to be given to any other being besides himself ? whether angels , or stars , or elements , or whatsoever creature it be , to give that worship to it , which is due only to god , is to make other gods besides him , and this i thought had been agreed on all sides . r. p. if they give divine worship to any one of these as an absolute deity , as t. g. well observes ; and not if they refer the worship they give to them to the true god. p. d. what means the giving divine worship as to an absolute deity ? is it to suppose that which they worship to be truly and properly god , as t. g. saith ? that is to suppose it , not to be a creature . and upon this ground those who supposed the spirits , or stars , or elements to be creatures could not be guilty of idolatry in the worship of them : and so the greatest part of the heathen world will be excused from it . or is it to give divine worship to the creatures without any respect to god the maker of the world and of all things in it ? but then either they did at that time believe him to be the maker of those beings , or they did not : if they did , either they worshipped them as created , or as uncreated beings ; if as created beings , how could they wholly pass by the creator ? if as uncreated , how could they at the same time believe them to be created by him ? r. p. t. g. was aware of this , for he puts the question concerning the heathens , how those who acknowledged one supreme being , could think any others to be truely and properly gods besides him ? and he resolves it thus , that the generality of the heathens had no clear and distinct notion of one supreme being ; but only the wiser philosophers . p. d. by this answer , none but the dull and stupid vulgar could be guilty of idolatry , such who believed ( if any did ) there were no other gods besides their images ; or if there were , they never considered more , than that they were all called gods alike , and they knew no distinction between one chief and the rest : but if they happened to suppose one supreme and the others made by him , as i have shewed from tertullian they generally did , then they are free from idolatry in all acts of worship performed with that opinion . for if idolatry doth suppose a belief of more gods than one truly and properly so called , then all those who did own and acknowledge one first cause from whence all other beings were derived , could not be guilty of it , and consequently all those who had the true knowledge of god could not commit idolatry : because they could not at the same time believe but one true god , and many true gods. and if the true notion of idolary doth consist in believing and worshipping many gods truely and properly so called ; then let us see how many of the heathens will stand clear from the guilt of it . ( . ) all those who worshipped deified men and believed them to be such , although they gave them the worship proper to true gods. for as long as they did not think them to be such , it could not be real idolatry : and so cicero , varro and seneca , and the rest of the wise statesmen will be excused . ( . ) all those who believed inferiour gods having their first being from one supreme ; as the ancient poets , platonists and many others . ( . ) all those who worshipped the parts of the world with respect to one god , as the stoicks and others . ( . ) all those who opposed christianity upon this ground , that although there were but one supreme god , yet others might receive divine worship together with him ; and upon this principle the most bitter enemies of christianity disputed , viz. celsus , porphyrius , hierocles , julian , maximus , symmachus and others . and to own it not to be idolatry to give divine worship to created beings supposing them not to be owned to be truely and properly gods , is in plain terms to give up the cause of christianity against heathen idolatry . and this i insist upon as the main argument in this matter : and desire you or t. g. or any one else to answer it . dr. st. hath made it evident from the testimonies of celsus , julian and the modern platonists , that the dispute about idolatry , between them and the christians was not , whether there were only one god truely and properly so called , and others only by participation from him ; for this they yielded : but the question was , whether upon that supposition that they were inferiour and subservient gods , they might not have divine worship given to them in a degree suitable to their excellencies ? and upon this point the hinge of the controversie turned . either the christians were right in condemning such worship for idolatry , or not ? if not , the cause of christianity is given up to celsus and julian ; if they were in the right , then idolatry doth not lie in believing and worshipping many gods properly and truely so called ; but in giving divine worship to any creature whatsoever . and why did not t. g. answer to this , which was the most material point of all others ? but run out into long discourses of the ignorance of the vulgar heathen ( which no man doubts any more than the ignorance of vulgar papists ; although i hope not to the same degree ) concerning the true god. and yet we could tell him of another sort of statesmen , who love to keep the people in ignorance , lest they should by the help of the scriptures see too far into these matters . and some of your own church have told us that they could find no difference between the common peoples opinion of saints , and what the heathens had of their gods. and thus the parallel holds good still . but the common people though more gross in their apprehensions and do commit greater follies in their practices , may yet be safer in their ignorance , than those who ought to inform them better . but when we enquire what is lawful , we must not run to the practices or opinions of the vulgar , as t. g. doth here ; but to the state of the case as it was managed by those who best understood it . and they did not put it upon that issue whether it were lawful to worship many independent deities ; but whether it were lawful to give divine worship to any created beings , on the account of that power and authority which god had put into their hands ? and if this were not idolatry , celsus and julian thought heathenism justified , and the doctrine of christianity overthrown ; and so did origen , s. cyril , and s. augustin too . ( . ) the modern idolaters will be excused too , if the nature of idolatry doth consist in a multitude of independent deities , or of gods truely and properly so called . for dr. st. hath proved abundantly , that the eastern , western , southern and northern nations , which are , or have been charged with idolatry by the roman church , do own one supreme god , and others as inferiour deities . and this he chiefly proves from the testimonies of those of the roman church who have been sent as missioners to convert them from their idolatry . and what saith t. g. to that ? r. p. truely he had forgotten to speak to it , but a friend of his putting him in mind of it , he hath added something by way of appendix about it ; to shew how unnecessary it was to speak to it . p. d. all in good time : but it was well the printer informed him of two or three vacant leaves too , or else we might have wanted those rare observations . but why so unnecessary to answer an argument of that consequence ? which to my apprehension hath effectually overthrown this hypothesis of t. g. that idolatry lies in the esteem and worship of many gods truely and properly so called ; for if that were the general supposition that idolaters went upon , that there was one supreme and many inferiour deities , as dr. st. hath proved of the * arabians , † persians , * brachmans ( who are shewed to have no other † esteem of the inferiour deities than you have of your saints , and that they give only a relative worship to them , and to their images ) and of the very * tartars and † west-indians , and * northern idolaters ; how then can t. g. hope to make it appear to any man of common sense that the nature of idolatry lies in the worshipping many independent gods ? if t. g. were sent upon a mission to them , i would fain know by what arguments he could convince any of these of idolatry ? t. g. charges them with idolatry for worshipping many gods truely and properly so called ; they deny it , and say they worship only one supreme and others in subordination to him , what hath t. g. further to say ? will he tell them , he knows better what they do , than they do themselves ? i say therefore it is impossible upon t. g.'s principles to convince these heathens of idolatry . but there is another thing , i think , very material in this discourse concerning the modern idolaters ; which is , t. g. insinuates , that although some few of the wiser sort of heathens might understand the difference between the supreme god and inferiour deities , yet the generality of the people did not ; and so might easily worship many gods properly and truly so called : whereas by this discourse it appears that the difference between the supreme and inferiour deities was a thing known and received among the most rude and barbarous nations . and it is no great civility towards the greeks and romans to imagine them to be more sottish idolaters than the tartars and west-indians . i will confess freely to you , that i think there was not a more absurd and impious scheme of divinity extant in the most barbarous parts of the world , that are come to our knowledge , than the poetical theology of the greeks and romans , if it be understood literally ; and therefore the common people who had the poets in mighty esteem , lay under great disadvantages ; but yet , the poetical fables being rejected by their laws as well as by their wise men , and the poets themselves confessing one supreme god , but above all , the natural sense of conscience , did keep up the notion of one god among the people , who was lord over all , insomuch that upon any solemn occasions they made their appeal to him , as the fathers observe . lactantius saith , not only the wise , but all sorts of people confessed the unity of god ; even those who seemed to assert the multiplicity of gods truely and properly so called ; for these are his words , quod quia intelligunt isti assertores deorum ; ita eos praeesse singulis rebus ac partibus dicunt , ut tantum unus sit rector eximius . jam ergo caeteri non dij erunt , sed satellites ac ministri ; quos ille unus maximus , & potens omnium officiis his praefecit , ut ipsi ejus imperio ac nutibus serviant . let t. g. construe this to the confusion of his hypothesis , that the heathen idolatry lay in the worship of many gods truely and properly so called : when even lactantius saith the contrary so expresly : those cannot be gods truely and properly so called who are under the command of another ; and this is lactantius his own argument , ergo dij non sunt quos parere uni maximo deo necessitas cogit . and this truth , he saith , of the vnity of god is so plain , that no man can be so blind not to discover so clear a light . seneca in his exhortations quoted by lactantius , calls the inferiour gods , the servants to the supreme ; ministros regni sui deos genuit : and the difference between them and the holy angels he places in this , that these would not be called gods , nor be worshipped as gods : the former we see s. augustin makes nothing of , so that the true ground why the heathens attributed divinity to them , was because they gave to them divine worship which the christians utterly refused . the same lactantius saith , in general of the romans , that in any great distress they made their application to the supreme god , and prayed to him , and expected help from him , and begg'd relief from others per ejus divinum atque unicum numen ; and these beggars surely were some of the common sort of people ; from whence it follows that the generality of the heathen even among the romans did not esteem and worship many gods properly so called . r. p. but methinks , you seem to have forgotten t. g. 's appendix about the - modern idolatry , as well as he had to write about it , till he was put in mind by a friend . p. d. i am not very apt to believe t. g. could forget so material a part of the doctours book : but there was some other reason , for passing it over ; which it is not hard to conjecture . but i thank you for putting me to ask you , why he thought it so unnecessary to speak to it . r. p. first , because the doctour reduces their worship to one of these two principles , either that god hath committed the government of the world to inferiour deities ; or that god is the soul of the world : now t. g. having proved that those who do hold the latter principle are guilty of idolatry ; and those who hold the former , of the exteriour profession of it in concurring with the vulgar in the external practice of their idolatry , it would have been but actum agere to repeat the same things over again . p. d. this is scarce a tolerable shift . for the great force of that discourse , lay in two things ; ( . ) the almost universal consent of idolaters that there was one supreme god , against t. g.'s hypothesis of many gods truly and properly so called . ( . ) that all these were charged with idolatry by the roman church : and therefore according to the sense of that , idolatry could not lye in worshipping many independent and absolute deities . but the prettiest shift , is , that he had condemned the platonists for the exteriour practice of idolatry in concurring with the vulgar , and therefore he need not speak to whole nations who agreed in that principle of worship , and yet are charged with idolatry . if i were given to quoting ends of verses i would cry , risum teneatis amici . r. p. secondly , the force of the parallel lies in citations . p. d and what then ? ought he not to examine and disprove them ? r. p. no such matter : he hath found out a far better away than that ; he proves that dr. st. hath forfeited all right of being believed in things of that kind . p. d. commend me to t. g. for shifting . this is really the notablest trick i ever met with . he finds abundance of authors quoted both new and old , to prove something he doth not like . what should he do ? must he search and examine them , one by one ? no , that is intolerable ; and how if they prove true ? therefore the only way is to say , he hath lost all credit in his citations . which is as much as to say , he deserves to stand in the pillory for suborning witnesses , and why should he be credited in any thing he saith ? but this is a very high accusation , and t. g. in common justice is bound to prove it , or else he deserves the same infamy himself . r. p. yes , he proves it , by his notorious misrepresenting and corrupting the fathers . p. d. i think i have sufficiently cleared the doctours integrity and faithfulness therein ; but i am sure you cannot so well clear t. g. from bearing false witness against his brother . r. p. but he gives one instance in this case , viz. a testimony of trigautius wherein he translates , certum triadis modum inducit quo tres deos in unum deinde numen coalescere fabulatur . they worship the trinity after a certain manner , with an image having three heads and one body . t. g. saith , an ordinary reader will here find neither head nor foot. p. d. that is very strange , when there are three . but must t. g.'s quibble destroy all dr. st.'s credit ? any one that reads trigautius will find he exactly expressed his sense ; but our dionysius will make him construe word for word , or else he must be set in the pillory , for suborning testimonies . methinks this savours a little too much of dionysius indeed . r. p. but he charges him more with another testimony of trigautius , where he leaves out the emphatical words which shew the difference between the worship which the chineses give to confutius and to the tutelar spirits . for first , he omits the ceremony of the magistrates taking the oath before the tutelar spirits ; then he leaves out what trigautius affirms , that the worship was not the same . ( . ) he omits nam and divinam , which shew the reason of the difference to be the divine power which they believed to be in the tutelar spirits . p. d. and what if t. g. be mistaken as to every one of these ? shall we not applaud him for a man of wonderful integrity , and most commendable ingenuity ? ( . ) dr. st. doth not omit the ceremony of the magistrates taking their oath to or before these tutelar spirits ; for he saith expresly , that the mandarines are to swear in the temple of the tutelar spirit when they enter into their office ; and he particularly insists upon it , as one of the instances of the allowances the jesuites gave to their converts to go and perform all external acts of adoration in the temple of the tutelar spirits , provided they directed all those acts to a crucifix which they held in their hands or conveyed secretly among the flowers of the altar . ( . ) he distinguishes the worship of confutius from that of the tutelar spirits . for , he saith , in that very place , that they make no prayers to him , neither seek , nor hope for any thing from him ; but that they acknowledge the tutelar spirits to have power to reward and punish . is not this enough to shew the difference of their worship to any men of common sense ? ( . ) is not a power to reward and punish in the tutelar spirits set down by dr. st. out of trigautius ? and to what end should he then leave out nam and divinam , but that he thought them needless when the sense was expressed ? but the birchen scepter would be of little use , unless dionysius shewed his authority upon such occasions . judge you now whether upon the account of such pitiful cavils , dr. st. hath forfeited his right of being believed in his citations ? r. p. t. g. gives a third reason , viz. because it appears from his own citations , that these modern idolaters either worshipped a false god for the true one ; or false gods together with the true one , if they worshipped him at all . p. d. this can be no reason at all ▪ for dr. st.'s design was to shew that inferiour deities were false gods : and that it was idolatry to give divine worship to creatures , although men did acknowledge one supreme god. but unless t. g. can prove these false gods to have been gods truly and properly so called , i. e. absolute and independent deities , his hypothesis is utterly overthrown by this discourse of dr. st. which was the true reason he had no mind to meddle with it . r. p. lastly , it is not credible , he saith , that the cardinals de propaganda fide , with the full consent of the pope should make such decrees about idolatrous acts , as should condemn the giving external acts of worship to saints and images as idolatrous . p. d. dr. st. punctually produced the resolution made by the cardinals about the worship of confutius and the performance of external acts of idolatry in the temple of the tutelar spirits by the jesuits converts in china . he names the date , the place of printing it , and saith the copy he had seen was attested by a publick notary ; nay , he directs t. g. where he might see not only the decree but an explication of it . and after all , is not this credible ? r. p. dr. st. sets down the resolutions and doth not let us know what the quaeres were . p. d. he thought those might be easily understood by the case ; viz. about performing the same external acts of worship , with idolaters , but with a different intention ; i. e. the mandarins were permitted by the jesuites to go into the temple of tutelar spirits , and to use all the external acts of adoration which others used , provided they directed them to the crucifix and not to the idol ; which the cardinals declare to be utterly unlawful notwithstanding this intention . from whence dr. st. observed , ( . ) that they called the worship of the tutelar spirits idolatry , although they looked on them only as inferiour deities , and consequently idolatry doth not consist in worshipping many absolute and independent gods , or truly and properly so called . ( . ) that inferiour worship on the account of created excellency is unlawful , when it appears to be religious . this he proved from their condemning the worship of confutius , which the jesuits allowed . and t. g. is so much mistaken in thinking that dr. st. had any design to corrupt the testimony of trigautius by confounding the worship of confutius and the tutelar spirits , that his argument is the stronger for the distinction between them . for , although no prayers be made to confutius , no divine power be supposed to be in him as in the tutelar spirits , yet because he had a temple in every city with his image in it ; and all other external rites of adoration used , as genuflections , wax-candles , incense and oblations ; ( such as your church useth to images without prayers ) yet these are condemned as idolatrous . and although the cardinals might not then reflect on the consequence of this resolution as to their own practices ; yet i cannot but admire at the wisdom of that providence , which once directed caiaphas to speak a great truth beside his intention , that so overruled the congregation of cardinals to condemn their own idolatry under the name of confutius . for if the using those external acts of adoration towards the image of confutius be idolatry ; why shall it not be so , where prayers are added , as they are in your church to the images set up in your churches ? let t. g. tell me wherein the nature of that idolatry lay , which consisted in external acts of adoration , without any opinion of confutius being a god truly and properly so called . ( . ) that external acts are capable of idolatry , however the intention of the mind be directed . for , although the cardinals believed the crucifix to be a proper object of divine worship , yet they condemned those acts as idolatrous which were directed to it in the temple of the tutelar spirits . and upon the whole matter , i think , no impartial reader will believe that t. g. hath said any thing to purpose upon this matter , and that he had better left those few leaves still vacant , than have filled them with such an insignificant postscript ; and he hath no reason to thank his friend for putting him upon laying open so much the weakness of his cause . for , from hence it farther appears that the modern idolaters will likewise be excused , if the nature of idolatry doth consist , as t. g. saith , in worshipping many gods truly and properly so called . r. p. but you are mistaken , if you think t. g. placeth the nature of idolatry wholly in this , for he saith , that the heathens were guilty of idolatry in worshipping nature instead of god , either the several parts of the vniverse as sun , moon , and stars , &c. understanding the fire by jupiter , the air by juno , &c. or the soul of the world , as the stoicks did ; whereby the heathens did , as t. g. often repeats it from vossius , relicto deo in naturae veneratione consistere , forsaking god stay in the worship of the creatures : and for this he quotes athanasius , s. augustine , and athenagoras . p. d. it is sufficient for dr. st.'s design , if the worship of images , and of intellectual beings under one supreme god were idolatry among the heathens , for then it must remain so among christians ; as well as murder and adultery are the same whereever they are found . but since you have proposed it , i shall consider with you how far the worship of the creatures in general is idolatry . but i have some few questions to ask you about this sort of idolatry . ( . ) whether you think the heathens idolatry did lye in worshipping meer matter as god ? or , ( . ) in worshipping god as the soul of the world , and the several parts of it with respect to him ? or , ( . ) in acknowledging a creator , but giving all the worship to the creatures ? r. p. in all these , according to their several opinions . p. d. do you really think any of them did worship meer matter , without life , sense , or understanding for god ? for , either they did believe some other god or not ? if they did , how is it possible they should not worship that , which could hear , and understand , and help them ; and worship that which could do none of these ? if they did not believe any other god , they were atheists and not idolaters . for are not those atheists who acknowledge no other god but meer matter ; i. e. no god at all ? for so vossius himself saith , those who held meer matter to be god , verbo deum fatebantur , re negabant : did only seem to believe a god whom they really denyed . for what kind of god , saith he , was that which had neither sense nor reason ? r. p. it was idolatry then to worship the parts of the world with a respect to god as the soul of it ; which as t. g. saith in his postscript , is to make a false god. p. d. there are two things which deserve to be considered as to this matter . ( . ) in what sense making god the soul of the world is setting up a false god ? ( . ) how far the gentiles could be charged with idolatry , who worshipped the parts of the world with respect to god as the soul of it ? r. p. do not you think making god the soul of the world is setting up a false god ? p. d. i pray tell me what you mean by the soul of the world . for either you mean the natural series of causes , or the more subtil and active parts of matter diffused through the vniverse without mind and vnderstanding ; or you mean an intelligent being which by wisdom and providence orders and governs the world , but withall is so united to it , as the soul is to the body ; if you mean the former , i say all such who held it were really atheists , and only differed in the way of speaking from those who worshipped meer matter ; for let them call god the soul of the world never so much , they mean no more than that there is no other god but the power of nature . if you mean an vnderstanding being governing the world whose essence is distinct from matter , but yet is supposed to be so united to it as the soul is to the body ; then i pray tell me in what sense you make him to be a false god , and how it comes to be idolatry to worship the parts of the world with respect to him ? r. p. s. augustin proves against varro that god was not the soul of the world , if there were any such thing , but the creator and maker of it : and he shews that this opinion is attended with impious and irreligious consequences . p. d. i do not go about to defend the opinion , but i hope i may ask , wherein the idolatry lay of worshipping one god under this notion as he animated the world and the several parts of it ? r. p. in worshipping the several parts of the world with divine worship ; not with a respect to the body , but to god as the soul of it ; for therein aquinas placeth their idolatry . p. d. is relative latria idolatry ? r. p. why do you ask me such an impertinent question ? p. d. nothing can be more pertinent , for this is meer relative latria . r. p. it was idolatry in them , but yet not so in us when we worship the crucifix with respect to christ. p. d. you may as well say , lying with another mans wife was adultery in them , but not in you. i pray shew the difference . r. p. you would fain bring me back again to the worship of images ; but you shall not . for i say their idolatry lay in worshipping god as united to the parts of the world ; and giving divine worship to them on that account . p. d. will you stand to this ? r. p. why not ? p. d. then i will prove worshipping the host to be idolatry on the same grounds . for in both cases , there is a supposition really false , but which being true would justifie the act of worship ; and if notwithstanding that supposition that god is the soul of the world , the worshipping of god as so united is idolatry , then the worship of the host notwithstanding the supposition of christs body being united to the species is idolatry too ; they being both acts of adoration given to those objects which in themselves deserve no worship , but yet are adored upon such a supposition which being true would justifie the performance of them . r. p. you are much mistaken in your parallel . for , as t. g. well observed , in the worship of the host , the act of adoration is not formally terminated upon the bread , supposing it to remain , but upon god : but we conceive the bread not to be there at all ; but in place thereof the only true and eternal god. and whatever is taken for an object of worship , the understanding must affirm ( either truly or falsly ) to be ; but catholicks , whether mistaken or not in the belief of transubstantiation , do not in their minds affirm the bread to be , but not to be ; because they believe it to be converted into the body of christ. but they who worshipped the parts of the world with a respect to god as the soul of it , did however believe those to have a real being , and not to be turned into the substance of god. p. d. all that this proves is , that you do not take the bread it self for god ; no more did they , who worshipped the parts of the world , as members of that body to which god was united as the soul , take those parts for god. but in both cases there is a supposition equal to justifie the worship if true ; and if notwithstanding this supposition , the heathens were guilty of idolatry ; why are not you upon a far more unreasonable supposition than that ? if christs body be present in the eucharist , you say , you may worship it as there present ; so say they , if god be the soul of the world , we may lawfully worship the several parts of it ? but you say , whatever is an object of worship must be supposed to be ; whereas you suppose the bread not to be , but to be converted into the body of christ ; which alters not the case ; for the question is not about the bare being or not being of the thing , but of the being or not being of a fit object of worship . i will make the matter plain to you by this instance ; one of the most common idolatries of the heathen world was the worship of the sun ; they who did worship it , did suppose it to be a fit object for worship , but they who looked on the sun as a meer creature could not think so : therefore to make any creature a fit object for worship , there must go a farther supposition ; viz. of the divinity being in it or united to it . now the main point lyes here , whether on supposition that the substance of the sun doth not remain , it would not be idolatry , but on supposition that it doth remain it would be idolatry ? i pray then answer me , would it be idolatry or not to worship the sun , suppose a man believed the very substance of the sun to be turned into the divinity ? r. p. no surely . for that is our own case . p. d. how comes it then to be idolatry supposing the divinity united to the substance of the sun ? r. p. in one case we may be supposed to worship a thing which is ; but in the other we cannot be supposed to worship that which at the same time we believe not to be . p. d. if it be idolatry to worship that as god which is not god , then the worship of the host may be idolatry , though you suppose the bread not to be . for to suppose that not to be which really is , doth no more alter the case ; than to suppose that to be god which is not , for that is to suppose that not to be a creature which is . for the worshippers of any parts of the world might profess as solemnly as you do about the bread , that if they did believe the sun to be a meer creature , they should abhorr the thoughts of worshipping it ; but believing it either to be god it self , or at least that the godhead is united to it ; why are not they as excusable as those who declare they abhor the thoughts of worshipping the bread ? but they believe it not to be bread , but the body of the son of god. r. p. but t. g. observes , that the formal term of idolatrous worship is an undue object ; viz. a creature instead of the creator ; but catholicks in case of a mistake , would have no other formal object in their minds , but the creator himself . p. d. as though the nature of idolatry did consist in the worship of a creature , knowing it to be a meer creature . might not the heathens have said they had no other formal object of adoration in their minds , but god ; but supposing him united to the parts of the world they might worship them on his account ; as well as those of the church of rome give adoration to that which appears to be meer bread ? if they who worship the sun on the account of the divinity which is in it or united to it , be yet guilty of idolatry , because though on supposition the divinity were so united the worship would be lawful , yet the supposition being false they are guilty of idolatry ; why then should not those be equally guilty of it , who worship a divinity as present under the species of bread , if the substance of bread doth still remain ? for then the worship however intended falls upon a meer creature , as it did in the former case . r. p. those who worshipped the sun , did suppose the substance of the sun still to remain ; but catholicks do not suppose the substance of bread to continue , but in place thereof do worship the only true and eternal god. p. d. it is true they did suppose the substance of the sun to remain ; but they did not intend to terminate their worship on that substance , but on the divinity united to it ; and to suppose that not to be bread which is really bread , doth no more excuse from idolatry , than supposing that not to be a meer creature , which really is no more . but to drive this matter home to you , i will ask a farther question , were those idolaters who worshipped the parts of the world as a part of the substance of god himself ; so that he is one and all ? r. p. suppose they were . p. d. did not they believe there was no other substance but of god present in what they worshipped ? r. p. and what follows ? p. d. do you not perceive ? that to suppose that not to be which really is , and that to be which is not , doth not excuse from idolatry . r. p. i must talk a little farther with t. g. about this matter . but i have another reason yet to charge the heathens with idolatry , viz. that they forsook the worship of the creatour , and staid in the worship of the creature . p. d. do you mean that they gave him no external worship , or that they gave him no worship at all ? or do you think any that believed a god , gave him no inward worship , i. e. no reverence or esteem suitable to his excellency ? r. p. why do you ask these questions ? p. d. because many of the heathens thought external worship beneath the excellency of the supreme god , as dr. st. hath fully shewed from the testimonies of porphyrius , numa , the platonists , the mandarins in china , and the ynca's of peru . is it then idolatry to deny external worship to god out of reverence to his majesty , and to give it to inferiour beings ? r. p. it is idolatry to give all external worship to his creatures and to reserve none to himself : because some external worship is due to him . p. d. if external worship be due to god , it is not because he needs it , but because it is fit for us his creatures to testifie our subjection to him as our creatour . r. p. be it so . p. d. ought not that worship then to be so peculiar to him , as to manifest the different esteem we have of the creatour and his creatures ? r. p. yes . p. d. is it not then an injury to gods honour to give that worship which ought to be peculiar to himself , to any of his creatures ? and that which the scripture calls idolatry ? r. p. but how will you know what external acts of worship those are which are peculiar to god ? for therein lyes the great difficulty . p. d. either we suppose god to have revealed his will to mankind , or not . if not , we have the light of nature , and the consent of mankind to direct us ; if he hath , we must consider the revelation he hath made of his will in this matter . for since god hath the power to determine our duty , and he knows best what makes for his honour , it is but just and reasonable that we should judge of these things according to his will. what he appoints as due to himself , becomes due by his appointment ; and to give that to another which he hath made due only to himself , is without question the giving the worship due to god to his creatures ; which is idolatry . our business therefore is , to consider whether god hath appropriated any acts of worship to himself ; what those acts are ; how far the obligation of them doth extend to us ; what we find to that purpose in the doctrine of christ and his apostles ; what the sense of the christian church hath been concerning them in the best and purest times of it . if you can think of any better wayes than these , i pray acquaint me with them . r. p. i see what you are coming to , viz. the appropriate acts of divine worship ; but before we debate that business , i have something more yet to say to you about the heathen idolatry . p. d. what is that ? r. p. t. g. observes , that the heathens did worship their gods as sharers with jupiter in the divine power and authority , and upon that account believed them to be truly and properly gods , in whose power it was to bestow those benefits upon them , which they desired , and they were justly charged with idolatry by the fathers for so doing . and he observes from t. godwin in his roman antiquities , that some were gods by their own right , others only by right of donation : of the former sort were those who were partners in the government of the world . now , saith he , to give worship to any other besides god as a sharer with him in it , though but in this or that particular , will be idolatry ; and in this consideration , were there no other , they might be justly charged with it by the fathers ; but in our church we own god to be the sole giver of every good and perfect gift , and make our addresses to angels and saints as his ministers and servants not to obtain of them the benefits we desire , but of god alone by their intercession through his only son and our only redeemer jesus christ , as the council of trent hath declared . p. d. here are two things to be cleared , ( . ) how far the heathens did make other gods sharers with the supreme in the government of the world. ( . ) how far your opinion and practice differ from theirs . . how far the heathens did make other gods sharers with the supreme in the government of the world. for which we are to consider a double hypothesis which was received among the heathens . first , of those who worshipped the same god under several names and titles with respect to particular powers ; which dr. st. proved from plotinus , plutarch , apuleius , and your own simon majolus , who on this account commends the poetick theology beyond that of pythagoras and socrates . and this hypothesis s. augustin takes particular notice of , viz. that the same god was jupiter above , juno in the air , neptune in the sea , and in the bottom of it salacia , pluto upon earth , proserpina under it , vesta in the hearth , vulcan in the forge , apollo in oracles , mercury in trade , mars in war , ceres in corn , diana in the woods , minerva among wits ; with many more which he reckons up , and then concludes , that all these gods and goddesses are but one jupiter ; or the several parts and powers of the same god ; and this , he saith , was the opinion of many learned , and great men among them . ( quae sententia velut magnorum multorumque doctorum est . ) all these made no sharers in divinity by believing them to be truely and properly gods , but only different titles and powers of the same god. secondly , there was another hypothesis more general than this , viz. of one supreme god and many inferiour who were imployed by him . of which you may remember the words of tertullian , that the greatest part asserted the supreme power to be in one , and the subordinate offices to be in many . and orosius saith , that both the philosophers and common heathens did believe one god the author of all things ; but under this god they worshipped many inferiour and subservient gods. in the council of carthage under cyprian saturninus a tucca ( who was both a bishop and confessor ) saith , that the heathen idolaters did acknowledge and confess the supreme god , father and creator . and this was so known a thing , that faustus the manichee charged the christians with being of the same faith with the pagans , as to one supreme god. although therefore the heathens did own and worship many gods , yet they looked on them as inferiour and subordinate to the supreme , and only imployed by him in the administration of things under him . and as for the partners you mention , they were not such quoad plenitudinem potestatis ; but only made use of in their particular offices ; you know the distinction ; and it serves better here than in the court of rome . but i cannot but wonder , when t. g. had upbraided dr. st. for two pages together with his father livy , father varro , father cicero , father seneca , father virgil , &c. he should at last sink so low as to quote father t. g. in his roman antiquities against him ; surely any one of those fathers in a matter of roman antiquities would weigh down a hundred father t. g.'s ; and yet even this testimony doth not prove that the gods that were supposed to be in heaven by their own right were supreme and independent deities , but the dij consentes were of a higher rank than the semidei or indigites , the one having been always in heaven according to the platonists supposition , the other being assumed from among men ; which comes at last to the distinction of angels and saints . . how far your opinion and practice do differ from theirs . and here i pray remember that i go not about to compare the heathen gods with angels and saints as to their excellencies , for the apostle tells us , however the gentiles intended it , they did really sacrifice to devils and not to god : but i am only to compare the heathens notion of worship and yours together . and if you do allow gods by participation , viz. spirits assumed into such a share of government as to have the care of some things and places committed to some more than to others ; and if addresses and supplications are allowed to be made to them on that account , i desire to know how the heathens are justly charged with idolatry , and you not ? was it idolatry to pray to diana as an inferiour deity which presided over hunting , and is it none to pray to s. hubert on the like account ? was it idolatry to pray to vesta to preserve from the fire , and is it none to pray to s. agatha ? if two persons in the same storm prayed as to their tutelar deities , the one to neptune , the other to s. paul ; is the one guilty of idolatry , and the other not ? if two women in travail prayed for help , the one to lucina , the other to the b. virgin , is the first only guilty of idolatry ? they might be accused of ignorance and folly in making a bad choice , but i do not see how the heathens could be charged with idolatry , and not the other . when saints are canonized to be particular patrons of places , as s. rosa lately for peru ; why may not the inhabitants make particular addresses to her as their patroness , and tutelar deity , as lipsius did to the b. virgin ? is not this to make such a saint a sharer in the government of the world , as much as the heathens did their tutelar gods under one supreme ? and therefore upon t. g.'s own ground , you are as justly charged with idolatry as the heathens were . for the heathens did not look on their tutelar gods as the original givers , but as the subordinate ministers . r. p. but as t. g. saith , we do not pray to them to obtain the things we desire , but that they would be our intercessors with god for us . p. d. i wonder t. g. would say this again without answering what dr. st. had said in his late defence to shew ( . ) that the very words of the council of trent do allow more than bare intercession . ( . ) that formal prayers to them to bestow blessings are allowed and practised among them ; of which he produces several instances of present use in the approved books of devotion . ( . ) that such prayers do not contradict any received doctrine of the roman church : and he challenges t. g. to shew , what article of your creed , what decree of your church , what doctrine of your divines it doth contradict , for any man to pray directly to the virgin mary for the destruction of heresies , support under troubles , grace to withstand temptations , and reception to glory ? and what can we beg for more from god himself ? but i do not yet understand how you can charge those heathens with idolatry , who owned a supreme god and worshipped inferiour deities as subordinate to them , and their images ; but the charge will return upon your selves . r. p. will you never be satisfied ? did not t. g. say , they were justly charged with it on two accounts . ( . ) because those images were instituted by publick authority for the worship of false gods ; and they concurred with the vulgar in all the external practices of their idolatry . ( . ) because though in their schools they denied them to be gods , yet they gave divine honour to them as the people did . p. d. you must excuse me sir , i have such an imperfection in my understanding that it will not be satisfied , without the appearance at least of reason ; which i confess i cannot yet see in this answer . for , i pray , how comes it to be idolatry in them who give only an inferiour and relative worship , if that worship be not idolatry ? r. p. t. g. saith , they were not guilty of internal idolatry , but of external , complying with the vulgar who did worship them as truely and properly gods ; and that in such a manner that they were judged to do the same thing , and therefore it was at least an exteriour profession of idolatry in them . p. d. but you have not yet proved that the gentiles did worship many independent gods ; and i have very lately shewed the contrary from the express testimonies of the fathers : and therefore this answer doth not reach to the case . yet suppose , that against the general sense of understanding men , the common people should take the inferiour gods for independent and absolute deities , is not this the case of your own church ? as dr. st. observed , the common people take their images for gods , or take the b. virgin for the queen of heaven , and pray to them accordingly , which is both internal and external idolatry in them , however t. g. and their learned men comply with them in all their external acts of worship , are they guilty of the exteriour profession of idolatry or not ? r. p. i thought where you would be , but is it the same case of some few men complying with a common and publick custom of idolatrous worship ; and of those who follow the publick profession and do the same acts with some private men who turn them to idolatrous worship ? p. d. but if the publick profession of the gentiles was to worship one supreme god , as i have already proved , then the case is the very same as to the profession and practice of idolatry ; which is the main thing insisted on . and the shewing of many other circumstantial differences will not vary the case , and destroy the parallel . if this be all you have to add about the heathen idolatry , i pray let us come to the appropriate acts of divine worship . for since god may appropriate acts of worship to himself ; since upon that they become due only to him ; since idolatry is giving to the creature the worship due to god ; dr. st. from hence proves , that they who do those acts by way of worship to any creature must be guilty of idolatry . r. p. as to this mighty argument t. g. saith , the only thing to be wondred at in it are the many equivocations , false suppositions , and self-contradictions contained in it . p. d. fair and soft good sir , let us not have so many charges at one time ; take which of them you please , provided you hold to it , and not ramble from one to another . r. p. what is it you understand by appropriate acts of divine worship ? for more or less may be required , and so the term be equivocal . p. d. i mean such which by his appointment and command become due to him , and by his prohibition to give them to any other they become due only to him . r. p. there is something still wanting to make the argument conclusive against us , which is , that god hath so tied these acts to his own worship , that in all cases , and upon all occasions imaginable they become incommunicable to any other , and this so fastned to them , that it cannot be separated from them . for if the appropriation may be separated upon any accounts , we may and will pretend it is . p. d. how doth it appear necessary , that such an appropriation must be in all circumstances ? is it not sufficient that it be in all acts of religious worship ? for instance , adoration is an appropriate act of divine worship , but he doth not hereby exclude mens bowing to each other on account of civil respect , but where the circumstances of time , place , &c. do shew it is for religious worship , there dr. st. saith it ought to be given to none else but god. r. p. but if those acts be communicable to any other besides god , as limited with such and such circumstances , they are not absolutely appropriated to god in all cases and upon all accounts imaginable ; and so the argument doth not conclude . p. d. i wonder to hear you talk at this rate . for the force of your argument lies in this , if it be lawful to bow to one another on a civil account , then religious worship is not appropriated to god ; what a strange consequence is this ? dr. st. doth say , that the circumstances of time and place , &c. do put a sufficient discrimination between acts of civil and religious worship ; as between eating and drinking upon a natural account at a common table , and eating and drinking at the eucharist . what a sensless way of reasoning were this , for a man to say , that eating and drinking could not be appropriated to that act of divine worship in celebration of the lords supper , because men eat and drink upon other occasions ? it is true , they do so and must do so if they would live ; but what then ? may not christ therefore institute a supper of his own with such rites and solemnities belonging to it , as may sufficiently discriminate it from a common eating and drinking ? and were it not a horrible profanation to appoint such a supper as that of our lord is , in commemoration of of s. francis , or ignatius loyola ? i see , i must put some questions to you to make you apprehend this a little better , than i fear you do . is not the celebration of the eucharist an appropriate act of divine worship now under the gospel ? r. p. i do not well know what you mean. p. d. so i thought by your way of talking . is it lawful to meet together at mass , to set apart bread and wine , and afterwards to partake of them with a design to commemorate s. francis and st. rosa , by such a solemnity ? r. p. i think not ; because that would be a profane imitation of our lords supper , which was instituted by christ himself for the commemoration of his own sufferings . p. d. but is it not lawful to eat bread and to drink wine together ? r. p. who doubts of that ? p. d. but eating bread and drinking wine are the same acts in substance which are used at the lords supper . r. p. and what then ? p. d. then the substance of the acts being the same when done upon a civil and a religious account , doth not take off from the appropriation of them to god when the circumstances declare it to be an act of religious worship . therefore when a dispute arises concerning the nature of an act , whether it be for civil or religious worship , common prudence is to judge of that from the circumstances of it ; if once it be found to be for religious worship , then comes in the consideration of the law of god , and the appropriation of all acts of religious worship to god alone . and by this time i hope you understand how impertinent it is to say , that if there be appropriate acts of divine worship , they must be so in all cases and upon all accounts imaginable . which is as much as to say , that eating bread and drinking wine in a solemn manner , in a place appointed for divine worship , cannot be appropriated to the lords supper , unless we never eat bread , or drink wine , but upon that occasion . r. p. but what are these appropriate acts of divine worship ? for it may be some farther light may be gathered from the acts themselves . p. d. dr. st. hath named six ; sacrifice , religious adoration , solemn invocation ; erecting temples and altars , burning of incense , making of vows . r. p. hath god tyed us by his command to offer sacrifice , or burn incense , or make vows to him ? how then can he argue the romanists guilty of idolatry upon the account of giving acts appropriated to god to others beside him , when himself if put to it , will deny that god hath commanded them to be done at all to him ? p. d. to clear this matter a little more to you , you may consider two things concerning appropriate acts of divine worship . . the general prohibition of giving religious worship to any thing besides god. which our saviour hath delivered in those words , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . which the primitive church took for their fundamental rule of worship ; and understood it in this sense , that all acts of religious worship were to be performed to god alone . and therefore of what kind soever the acts were , whether we were tied to perform them to god or not , if they were looked on as acts of religious worship given to any creature , they utterly and peremptorily refused to do them , and rather chose to suffer martyrdom ; as was plain in the case of burning incense to the emperours image . no christians did then think that we were tied to offer incense to god , and yet they esteemed it idolatry to offer incense to any creature ; therefore it is not necessary to the nature of idolatry , that the act of worship be such as we are tied to give unto god ; it being sufficient that it is an act of religious worship ; and the giving of any such to a creature is idolatry ; and without this , it is impossible to defend the martyrs of the primitive church ; which all christians are bound to do . . as to particular acts of divine worship , though they are always unlawful to be given to any thing besides god , yet we are not tyed after the same manner to perform them to him . for ( . ) some acts of worship are natural and always equally agreeing to the majesty of god ; such as prayer and invocation ; dependence on his goodness and providence ; thanksgiving for mercies received ; and all internal acts of worship , which result from the relation we stand in to god , and the apprehensions we ought to have of his perfections ; as fear from his power , submission from his providence , faith and trust in him from his truth and wisdom , love from his goodness , &c. all these are necessary acts of worship , and proper to god. ( . ) some acts of worship are appropriated to him when they are due , but they are not alwayes due : such as making vows , and swearing by his name . although we are not tied to perform these at any certain times , yet whenever they are done , they must be done to god alone . ( . ) some acts are not necessary to be done to god at all ; and yet it is unlawful to do them to any other . and of this kind are the offering sacrifices and burning incense ; which were strictly required under the law , but that dispensation expiring after the coming of christ , the obligation to those acts was wholly taken away , and yet it was idolatry to use them to any thing besides god ; because they were acts of religious worship , and therefore if to be performed at all , they were so due to him that they could not without idolatry be applied to any besides him . and thus , i hope , i have a little helped your understanding about these appropriate acts of divine worship . r. p. but the force of the ceremonial law being taken away ; whatever is not obliging by the law of nature , or some express declaration of the will of christ , is left at liberty for the church to use conformably to the light of nature , and the design of christs doctrine . p. d. all this i yield . but that which i insist upon , is that fundamental precept of worship as declared by christ , thou shalt worship the lord thy god and him only shalt thou serve . r. p. but do you think that christ hath made a re-establishment of those acts in the new law which were before peculiar to god , as sacrifice , incense , &c. for then christians will be as much bound by this precept to give them to god , as not to give them to any other . but if they are not re-established , how doth it follow , that because they were appropriated to god by the law , therefore now that law is taken away , they are forbidden to any other besides god ? p. d. i do not say that christ did intend a re-establishment of those acts of worship which were peculiar to the law of moses ; but i do say , that christ by this precept as explained by himself , doth make it utterly unlawful to perform any act of religious worship to any but god alone . and if this be all you have to prove the mass of equivocations , false suppositions , and self-contradictions in dr. st.'s discourse of appropriate acts of divine worship , it had been more for t. g.'s honour to have passed over this with as much silence as he did many other places which he found too hard for him . r. p. suppose this argument were good , it proves nothing against us , who neither give any act absolutely appropriated to god to any else besides him ; nor any other in the manner it is appropriated to him . p. d. if you perform any act of religious worship either to saints or images , this discourse must concern you ; because the law against the worship of images is still in force among christians ; and our saviours general rule doth forbid all external acts of religious worship being applied to any besides god. r. p. nay , supposing those external acts of worship to be now due to god by his law , the giving them to any besides himself will not be to give to the creature the worship due to god , unless it be done with an intention to give them to a creature as esteemed worthy of divine honour . for that is the definition of real idolatry . p. d. then the mandarins in china who performed all external acts of adoration in the temple of the tutelar spirits secretly directing their intention to a crucifix were not guilty of idolatry ; notwithstanding the decree of the congregation at rome . for they did not perform those acts , with an intention to give the worship to the tutelar spirits as esteemed worthy of divine honour . then the thurificati of the primitive church who through fear offered incense , could not be charged with idolatry ; nor marcellinus though he sacrificed in the temple of vesta , when he only complied with dioclesian . but did not t. g. blame the philosophers for an exteriour profession of idolatry ? what is that i beseech you ? is it idolatry or not ? doth not t. g. grant , that there ought in reason to be some peculiar external acts appropriated to the worship of god as most agreeable to his incommunicable excellencie ? why so i pray ? is it not , because gods incommunicable excellency requires an external worship peculiar to it self ? and if so , is it not to give the worship due to god to something else , to apply those acts which are peculiar to himself , to any thing besides him ? this debate in truth comes to this point at last , whether there ought to be any such thing as a peculiar external worship of god or not ? for , if external worship be due to him , and such worship be due to him alone for his incommunicable excellencie , then the giving external worship to a creature , must be giving to it what is due only to god. and to resolve the nature of idolatry into the inward intention , is all one as if one should say , that adultery were to lie with another mans wife with an intention to cuckold her husband ; but if a man did it out of love to her person , it were no adultery . why is there not an external act of idolatry , as well as of perjury , theft , murder and the like ? where doth the scripture give the least intimation that the nature of idolatry is to be taken from the inward intention , when the law is express against the outward action : and all men are charged with idolatry who were guilty of the external acts , without running into the thoughts and designs of their hearts ? nay , your own authors cannot deny that there is an external idolatry as well as internal ; and where the outward acts are idolatrous we ought to presume there was an implicit and indirect intention ; and no more is necessary to make an act idolatrous than a voluntary inclination to do it . this is therefore a meer subterfuge , and can never satisfie a mans conscience , nor excuse the roman church from idolatry . r. p. but t. g. grants that supposing such an appropriation of external acts to remain in force ; to apply such acts to a creature may and ought in reason to be interpreted to be real idolatrous worship ; because idolatry is a sin directly opposite to religion , as a false worship to a true one . p. d. what is it then but to cavil about words , to deny that to be real idolatry which at the same time he confesses ought to be interpreted to be so ? for since we cannot judge of mens intentions but by their actions , when we dispute about the idolatry practised in any church , we can be understood only of that which lies open to our judgement , and that can be only the external act . and since t. g. grants , that the thing which the dr. means is confessed by your selves to be inconsistent with salvation , there is nothing further necessary to be done , but to debate whether you are guilty of that sin or not , in applying appropriate acts of divine worship to a creature . r. p. but doth not dr. st. himself shew from card. tolet , that idolatry doth suppose an error in the mind , in judging that to deserve divine honour which doth not ? p. d. i grant it , but that only shews what practical judgement doth precede a voluntary act of idolatry : as it is distinguished from an involuntary compliance . in this later case , persons are really guilty as to the external act ; as a man that takes away his neighbours goods out of fear of his own life is really guilty of theft , although the fear he was in may lessen the wilfulness of it : so in idolatry when committed through the power of a sudden passion is a sin of the same kind with other idolatry , but not so wilful and deliberate a sin . but in case of wilful idolatry , there must be a practical judgement determining the will to the act of idolatry . if you ask me what that judgement is , whether true , or erroneous ; i say it is an erroneous judgement , for it determines the giving divine worship to that which doth not deserve it . not as though idolatry implied the believing that to be truly and properly god which is not ; ( which t. g. would infer from thence ) but it implies only the practical judgement determining the will to give divine worship to that which really deserves it not . as for instance ; suppose an image of our lady to stand before two persons ; the one declares against the worship of it , though he may be forced to do it , he is guilty of real but involuntary idolatry ( taking involuntary as to the free inclination of the will ) the other readily and spontaneously falls down upon his knees before it , and says his prayers to the image as gravely and devoutly as if the b. virgin were present ; both these do concur in the same external act of worship , but from a very different judgement ; the one judges it fit to comply for his own safety ; the other judges the thing fit to be done : but it is not necessary that he judges the image to be the b. virgin her self , but that he ought to give such worship to her image ; so that judging divine worship to belong to that which doth not really deserve it , is all the erroneous judgement necessary to a wilful act of idolatry ; and if this be any kindness to t. g. much good may it do him . r. p. but t. g. saith , that from hence it follows , that it is not real idolatry to worship an image with divine worship unless it be done out of an erroneous judgement , as to a thing that deserves divine honour . p. d. no such matter ; for from hence it only follows , that in a wilful act of idolatry there must be a practical judgement determining the act of divine worship to an image , though it deserves it not . so that this doth not refer to the manner of applying the external act to the object as deserving divine honour , but only the antecedent judgement that the act of divine worship be given to such an object . r. p. again t. g. saith , that from hence it follows , that the case of the heathens and ours is different , because their idolatry proceeded upon an erroneous belief of a creatures deserving divine honour when it doth not ; but we do no such thing . p. d. cannot t. g. understand the difference between an erroneous belief and an erroneous practical judgement ? i do not deny that the heathens had a very erroneous belief in many particulars ; and so have other idolaters too . but the question now is , what error of judgement that is , which the wilful act of idolatry doth suppose ; and i say , it requires no more than an error in the practical judgement , determining the will to give divine worship to that which doth not deserve it . and herein i see no difference between the heathens idolatry and yours . r. p. but let us now set aside the strict notion of idolatry , and consider , whether the church of rome be guilty of damnable sin in the manner of their worship , which must either be in not giving to god the worship due to him , or by giving the worship due only to him to his creatures . p. d. the later is that which dr. st. chiefly insists upon , although , he saith , your divines are to blame in the first particular , because they reserve no one act of external adoration as proper to god and to be performed by all christians , and for this he quotes the resolution of cardinal lugo . r. p. i wonder you would mention that citation of lugo , since t. g. saith the dr. is so unhappy in his citations : and the jesuits will say , that he evidently abuses both his authority and his eminency . p. d. i have had so much experience of t. g.'s intolerable disingenuity in this matter , that i durst venture an even wager ( which is the way t. g. proposes often in his dialogues for ending such disputes ) that dr. st. hath not miscited cardinal lugo . r. p. t. g. saith , that cardinal lugo doth not deny sacrifice to be an external act of worship proper to god ; for his words are , qui non potest offerri nisi soli deo , as may not be offered but to god alone ; but , he saith , that sacrifice is not properly an act of adoration in the strict sense , but of another kind distinct from it . p. d. those are not lugo's words , but licet non possit offerri nisi soli deo ; yet i shall not insist upon that . for that which sufficiently clears dr. st. is , the consideration of his design in bringing those words of lugo , which was to prove that there is no one external act of adoration which is proper to latria , or the worship peculiar to god. and are not lugo's words plain and full to this purpose ? r. p. that cannot be denied , but he takes adoration in the stricter sense . p. d. let him take it in what sense he will ; doth he not speak of the adoration proper to latria , or the worship peculiar to god ? and doth not latria take in any peculiar act of divine worship ? and if there be no external act of adoration peculiar to god , doth it not follow , that there is no peculiar act whereby you express your inward submission to god in all things ? for that , lugo saith , is the strict sense of adoration he there means . and doth not this fully prove what dr. st. brought this testimony for ? r. p. but the church of rome doth hold sacrifice to be peculiar to god. p. d. and doth not dr. st. say as much ? for his words are , that you confess , that sacrifice is so peculiar to god that it ought not to be offered to any else ; but not as an act of latria saith cardinal lugo , for there is no act of adoration that is so ; but upon another account as it signifies gods absolute dominion over us as to life and death , and that we ought to lay down our own lives when he calls for them ▪ which is to make sacrifice a significant ceremony peculiar to god expressing his soveraignty , but not an immediate act of worship peculiar to him : for of that kind , he saith , there is none . and therefore according to him , your church hath no one external act of divine worship so proper to god , that it may not be offered but to him alone . and from hence it appears that lugo did not take adoration meerly for that act of religious worship which is performed by the motion of the body , as t. g. suggests ; but for whatsoever act that may tend to express the submission of our souls to god ; of which sort he denies any to be peculiar to gods worship . and what can be more contrary to that which t. g. admits for a law of nature , viz. that man ought to use some external acts to testifie his submission to god , and therefore there ought to be some peculiar external acts appropriated to the worship of god , as most agreeable to his incommunicable excellency ? i could not but rejoyce to see t. g. own so reasonable a principle , and i desire no other , as to the meer light of nature to prove your idolatry . for , if this be a principle of natural religion ; then idolatry even by the light of nature lies in applying appropriate acts of divine worship to any but to god himself ; for since his excellency is incommunicable , and the submission we owe to god peculiar to him , and that submission ought to be expressed by external acts , all which t. g. grants ; then all those who do use such acts to any besides god , are guilty of giving the worship due to god unto a creature . for god hath not only a right to our inward submission , but to the acknowledgement of it , which cannot be done but by external acts : and which is observable as to this matter ; the honour of god as to his incommunicable excellencies with respect to mankind as a body , doth not lie in the bare acts of the mind , but in the external performance of religious worship to him . for , if it be necessary that gods authority be owned in the world , it is necessary it be done by visible acts of worship ; which ought to be so appropriated to him , that any one who discerns them may see the difference put between god and all his creatures . for herein lies the manifestation of that inward sense we have of gods incommunicable excellencies , when we set apart times , and places , and offices of religious worship , by which we declare our submission to god , as our creator and governor of the world. and the confounding this distance between god and his creatures is the great sin of idolatry : from whence aquinas and others conclude it to be a sin of the highest nature , and including blasphemy in it , because it robs god of the honour due to him for his incommunicable excellencies . r. p. what do you mean by this appropriating acts of worship to god ? do you mean all of them so absolutely appropriated to god , that it is not lawful upon any account to give them to any other ? and then the quakers will be the only good christians in the world ; or only some of them , and not others , as kneeling and prostrating , but not bowing ; and then you must tell us what makes the discrimination . p. d. i mean that which all mankind meant , when they set apart times , and places , and offices for divine worship ; and every man by the help of his mother wit knew the difference between going to serve god and going to market . i say then as dr. st. did , that the circumstances do sufficiently discriminate acts of a religious and of a civil nature . r. p. may not the churches declaration , that such acts are intended only for inferiour worship towards images or saints , make a sufficient discrimination between such acts , and those which are appropriated to god ? p. d. if you suppose the whole power of determining acts of divine worship to lie in your churches breast , you had asked a very material question ; but in this case , there is a law of god antecedently prohibiting such acts being given to any besides god himself ; and this law was so understood by the christian church when the christian religion put men upon suffering martyrdom on that principle , that all religious worship was appropriated to god : because christ had said , thou shalt worship the lord thy god and him only shalt thou serve . r. p. who is so blind as not to see , that this prohibition fell upon the external act as determined to be a sign of religious worship by the circumstances in which it was required ? p. d. and what then , i pray ? for doth it not equally fall upon all external acts where the circumstances do determine them to be signs of religious worship ? which is all i desire . r. p. doth not this justifie the quakers in denying to give any external honour to a creature ? p. d. so far from it , that it shews the folly of their doctrine , which arose from not being able to distinguish acts of religious and civil worship . r. p. but dr. st. allows some kind of religious worship to be given to a creature . p. d. not any which is religious in its nature or by circumstances ; but that which might be so called being required by the rule of religion , as civil worship is . r. p. but he allows religious respect to places , and religious honour to saints , and then why not those acts we give to images and saints on the same accounts ? p. d. because the circumstances do declare those are not acts of religious worship ; but those you give to images and saints are . r. p. i see the weight of this whole debate lies at last upon this determination of circumstances ; but how comes the dr. after all the great bustle he makes about gods appropriating external acts of worship to himself , to put the trial of his cause at last upon the determination of circumstances ? p. d. what other way should the difference of moral actions be tried ? what incongruity is there between gods appropriating acts of religious worship to himself , and the finding out what those acts are by the circumstances ? is it not thus in the other commandments ? god in general forbids murder , theft and adultery ; but are not those prohibited acts to be judged by the circumstances ? for , there is the same substance of the act in and unlawful actions . if a man kills another by chance , or out of malice ; if a man takes away another mans goods with his consent or without ; it is the same act as to its substance ; and what discrimination can be made but by the circumstances ? and therefore i cannot but wonder to hear you object against this , or think it any repugnancy to gods appropriating acts of divine worship to himself . r. p. how can the nature of such acts be determined wholly by circumstances , unless the appropriation of them be taken away ? for if that continues , the law determines the nature of the acts . p. d. do you not apprehend the difference between the discrimination of acts of civil and religious worship , and the appropriation of the latter to god by his law ? i say the law makes them peculiar to god when they are found to be acts of religious worship , but the circumstances are to determine whether they are civil or religious acts . as all acts of murder are forbidden by gods law , but whether such an act be murder or no , is to be judged by circumstances . r. p. but then if the external acts of worship given to creatures in the church of rome chance to prove accompanied with such circumstances , by which they may and generally are understood not to be acts of divine worship but of inferiour veneration , then they are acquitted from the guilt of idolatry according to the dr.'s own principles . p. d. no such matter ; unless we suppose those acts to be wholly indifferent and left free by any divine law : and that it is in the churches power to declare what is to pass for divine worship , and what for inferiour worship . but no particular circumstances can make an act lawful , which the law of god hath made unlawful . as suppose the spartan common-wealth allow pilfering or taking away goods from each other without consent of the owners , here is one circumstance which goes a great way towards the altering the nature of such actions ; but if there be an antecedent law of god which makes such acts unlawful , they remain so still notwithstanding the declaration of the spartan state. just thus it is in the present case , your church declares such acts of worship may be lawfully applied to images and saints ; but what then ? hath your church the power to repeal the law of god ? if not , the acts remain as unlawful as ever , notwithstanding the circumstance of such a declaration . r. p. but t. g. saith , all dr. st. 's discourse about discrimination of acts of civil and religious worship by circumstances , is only a popular discourse , and upon enquiry will be found as incoherent and weak as an adversary could wish . p. d. i shall not take t. g.'s judgement in this matter ; for i have not found him so impartial and just , that i should submit to his arbitration . if you have any thing to object against that discourse , i do not question we shall hear of it . r. p. first , acts take their nature from the formal reason or account upon which they tend to their objects , and from thence they become either civil or religious , though they may receive another denomination from the circumstances which do accompany them . p. d. i pray consider ; the thing we enquire after , is the difference between acts of civil and religious worship ; which dr. st. saith is to be taken from the circumstances , no , say you , it must be taken from the formal reason , or account on which they tend to their objects : but the formal reason of acts being secret and invisible , the question is whether that be sufficient to put a discrimination between acts of an external and visible nature , as those of civil and religious worship are . i will make this plain to you by a noted instance : while the christian emperors required no more than meer civil worship , the christians made no scruple of giving it to them in the same postures which were used in divine worship ; but when they suspected that divine worship was required , they utterly refused it : here we have the same acts as to the substance of them in both cases ; and yet the christians could easily discern which did belong to civil and which to religious worship ; was it from such a reason and intention of the persons which none could know but the doers ? or else from the circumstances which did make it appear that more than civil worship was required ? and yet this worship which the heathens gave to their emperours was only an inferiour sort of divine worship , and so understood by the general consent of the heathens themselves ; from whence we gather ( . ) that the discrimination of acts of civil and divine worship do not depend upon the intention of the doer , but the outward circumstances of them . for , if it had depended on the inward intention of the person , the christians might have saved their lives and honours by doing the external acts with a different intention ; and that which was divine worship in him that designed it for such , were but civil worship in him that intended no more . ( . ) that the declaration of an inferiour sort of divine worship doth not make it lawful . for it could be no otherwise understood by the christians , and yet they refused it as idolatrous worship . r. p. ( . ) if the circumstances of time , and place , and such like do so restrain and limit the signification of external acts , that it is easie to discern one worship from another , how can you make it out that the people did not give religious worship to david when in a most solemn act of devotion , it is said , that the people worshipped the lord and the king ? where we see the same act at the same time , a time of solemn devotion given to god and the king , and the people never charged for giving religious worship to the king. p. d. t.g. need not have gone so far back for such an argument . for the kings chaplains in a sacred place and at a solemn time of devotion , do bow three times to the king , when they enter into the pulpit ; and yet who is there imagines they give him divine worship ? it is not therefore the circumstance of time and place alone , which dr. st. makes to discriminate civil and religious worship ; but the concurrence of all circumstances together . if i bowed to a friend at church , is any man so senseless to take this for idolatry ? where there is an antecedent ground for civil worship and respect , which is well known and understood among men , there is nothing like idolatry , although we do use the same external acts towards men which we use towards god himself . as among the israelites no man doubted that their bowing to the king was upon a quite different account , from their bowing to god ; although they bowed to the king in a place dedicated to divine worship . and where the reason of worship is so well understood to be of a quite different nature from that of religious worship , that very reason makes a discrimination besides the circumstances of time and place . which i shall make appear from the case of naaman the syrian ; whose bowing in the house of rimmon was therefore free from idolatry because of the known custom of paying civil respect every where else to his prince in that manner , and by his publick protestatition against the idolatrous worship there performed , as t. g. shews at large from dr. h. t. g. therefore very much mistakes dr. st.'s meaning , if he thinks he assigned the discrimination of acts of religious and civil worship barely to the circumstances of time and place without taking in the object and reason of worship . r. p. but from hence it appears , that bowing in the house and presence of an idol and in the very time of worship , is not idolatry : for then naaman could not be excused . p. d. where the worship is known to be given not to the idol , but to the prince to whom it is acknowledged to be due elsewhere ; dr. st. never supposed such an act of worship though done in an idol-temple to be idolatry . r. p. but suppose men should ask a bishop blessing in a church and at prayer-time , this is not civil worship , and is this idolatry . p. d. worship may be said to be civil two wayes ; . when it is performed on a meer civil account , as it is to magistrates and parents . . when it is performed on the account of a spiritual relation , as in the respect shewed to bishops as spiritual fathers . the worship is of the same kind with that which is shewed to natural parents , but the relation is of another kind ; on which account it may be called spiritual respect ; but it is in it self an act of civil worship arising upon a moral relation , which being of a different nature from that which is between princes and subjects , and parents and children ; and being founded upon religious grounds may be said to be religious or spiritual respect rather than worship . r. p. if the first christians had upon their knees in time of prayer begged s. james his benediction , had this been an unlawful act of worship ? p. d. if they were upon their knees in prayer to god , i think it was a very unseasonable time to ask their bishop blessing ; although the act in it self were lawful . r. p. but is not this an act of the same kind with that of invocation of saints in times and places of divine worship , when we only pray to them to pray for us ? p. d. i say again , that is not all you do ; for you own their patronage , protection and power to help you in your necessities ; and your prayers must be understood according to your doctrines . but suppose you did only pray to them to pray for you , yet ( . ) you do it with all the solemnity of divine worship in the publick litanies of the church , when you are in the posture of your greatest devotion . and the angel rebuked no less man than st. john , for using the posture of divine adoration to him . ( . ) in kneeling to a bishop to pray for us we suppose nothing that encroaches upon the divine excellencies ; for we are certain he hears and understands us , and we desire nothing from him , but what is in his power to do , and is very fitting for us to request from him . but when you pray to saints , you can have no possible assurance that they do or can hear what you say to them ; and so it is a foolish and unreasonable worship : and when you do it with the same external acts of devotion which you use to the divine majesty , you take away that peculiarity of divine worship which is due to god by reason of his incommunicable excellencies ; and so it is superstitious and idolatrous worship , these two wayes , ( . ) as it supposes as great excellencies in creatures as those did who for that reason were charged with idolatry . i do not meddle with the possibility of an intelligent being disunited from matter 's hearing at such a distance as the saints are supposed to be from us , nor whether god may not communicate such knowledge to them ; but that which i insist on is this , i find those charged with idolatry not only in scripture and the fathers , but by the church of rome it self , who professed to worship some inferiour spirits as mediators between god and men ; and such mediators as were never imagined to be mediators of redemption but barely of intercession , as being believed to carry up the prayers of men and to bring down help from above . now here is no omnisciency , or omnipotency , or other incommunicable excellency attributed to these spirits ; and all the addresses made to them was under the notion of mediators to intercede for them , i. e. to pray to them to pray for them ; and yet these were charged with flat idolatry . it were easie to make it appear from unquestionable testimonies , that the heathen idolaters did worship inferiour spirits only as mediators , ( as apuleius expresses it , inter caelicolas terricolasque vectores hinc preeum inde donorum , wherein he only interprets plato's sense ) and that this was one of the most common and universal kinds of idolatry ; and therefore i would fain know why they must be charged with idolatry , and you escape ? either be just to them , and vindicate the heathen worship , or else you must condemn your own . ( . ) t. g. confesses , that by the law of nature there ought to be some peculiar external acts appropriated to the worship of god as most agreeable to his incommunicable excellency : now among all mankind no one external act of worship hath been supposed more peculiar to the divine nature than solemn invocation in places and times appropriated to divine worship ; but the invocation practised in the roman church hath all the solemnity and circumstances of divine worship , and therefore it is robbing god of the peculiar acts of his worship which is idolatry . and he must be very dull indeed , who cannot distinguish this invocation from a casual or accidental meeting with a bishop at church and kissing the hem of his garment , or asking his benediction on ones knees . r. p. but where there are different objects in themselves , and a publick profession and consent that those acts are applyed to those objects upon different accounts ; it is intolerable impertinency to understand such acts as are in themselves equivocal in any other sense than the church declares , viz. as applyed to saints or images , the outward acts of worship , as bowing , kneeling , &c. are used only as tokens , or expressions of an inferiour respect and veneration . p. d. if this be all you have to say for your selves , the heathens must be excused from idolatry as well as you. for they acknowledged by common consent and publick profession a difference between the supreme god and inferiour spirits ; they allowed of different degrees of worship ; and without all question did not look on their emperours , as the supreme deity that made and governs the world ; and yet i hope the primitive christians were not guilty of intolerable impertinency in charging them with idolatry . but it seems the holy angel was guilty of the same intolerable impertinency in so rashly rebuking the apostle for falling down to worship him , for this was an equivocal act , and in all probability was intended only as a token of respect and veneration inferiour to what was thought due to god over all , blessed for evermore . but those acts of divine worship which by the law of god become due only to himself , can by no consent or declaration of a church be made lawful to be given to any creature , however they may call them acts of inferiour respect and veneration ; as long as they are of the same nature with those which were condemned both by the scripture and fathers as idolatrous worship . r. p. doth not dr. hammond say that naaman the syrian was excused from idolatry , because of the publick profession he made , that he intended not the worship to the idol , but to his master ? and will not the same plea hold for us who declare we do not give soveraign worship to any creatures , but only inferiour worship ? p. d. if naaman had desired leave to worship rimmon or saturn with an inferiour worship , declaring that he did not take saturn for the true and supreme god , but the god of israel ; and therefore he might apply the same act after a different manner , and the prophet had then bid him go in peace , you had some reason for your parallel . but as long as naamans question only related to the performing an act of civil worship to his prince in the house of rimmon , what colour can be hence taken for giving any kind of religious worship to saints or images in places and at times set apart for divine worship ? r. p. but monsieur daillé saith , that external signs whether of nature or religion are to be interpreted by the publick and common practice of those who use them , and not by the secret and particular intentions of this , or that person . p. d. and what then i beseech you ? monsieur daillé discourses against those who would use all the external acts of adoration of the host which others did , but with a different intention , and hoped this would excuse them from idolatry . now in this case he saith , that signs of religious worship , as uncovering the head , kneeling or prostrating the body at the sound of a little bell , and such other actions are the plain and ordinary signs of the adoration of the host ; and are so appointed by the church of rome , and so understood by those who generally practise it ; therefore , saith he , those who do use these outward signs are to be understood to give adoration to the host. from whence it follows , that men cannot comply with others in the acts of adoration of the host without hypocrisie or idolatry : which it was mons. daillé's design to prove . but what is all this to the proving that inferiour worship is not idolatry ? we desire that these signs of worship may be interpreted according to the common and publick practice of those who use them ; by which we say , it is as truly religious worship , as the nations used , which all christians do charge with idolatry . but if your meaning be , that your actions are to be interpreted in your own sense , it will come to this at last , that you are not guilty of idolatry , because you declare you are not guilty of it ; and whoever condemned themselves for it by publick declarations ? unless it were when they repented of it as a great sin , which i do not find you are yet willing to do . i pray remember this saying of daille's , when you think to justifie giving acts of divine worship to a creature , by your secret intention ; for he saith , and you seem to approve his saying , that such acts when they are of the nature of religious worship , are to be interpreted by the common and publick practice , and not by particular intentions ; if therefore the acts of worship be such , as by the scriptures , and sense of the primitive church belong only to god , no intention of yours of applying them after an inferiour manner can excuse you from giving adoration to a creature , especially , if they be such acts which god hath appropriated to himself , as the six mentioned by dr. st. for who dares alter what god himself hath appointed ? r. p. i think you are turning quaker , for this is their principle , do not they alledge christs precept against swearing , and then say who dares alter what god himself hath appointed ? p. d. i may as well fear you are renouncing christianity ; for what christian ever said or thought otherwise , than that it is not in the power of men to alter the laws of christ ? if christs precept were to be understood of all kind of swearing , do you really think it would be lawful to swear at all ? i am ashamed of this loose , not to say , profane way of talking about the obligation of divine laws . r. p. i only mentioned this by the by , to let you see what kind of principles the dr. makes use of to combate the church of rome . p. d. just such principles as all christians own ; and are bound so to do by their being christians . but do you think in earnest , that it is in the power of men to alter the laws of god ? r. p. no. but t. g. means , that there is now no law of god binding men concerning these external acts of worship , and therefore it is in the power of the church to appoint these as well as other rites and ceremonies , and to determine the signification of them . p. d. if this be his meaning , it is very ill expressed . but i say , that our saviour hath declared the immutable obligation of that law concerning applying all acts of religious worship only to god ; and that the vniversal church of christ in the first ages so understood it ; as appears not barely by their words , but by the greatest testimony of their actions : when such multitudes laid down their lives upon this principle . therefore i say again , you must call in question their title to martyrdom , or you must own this for a true christian principle . r. p. but we declare our meaning in those which dr. st. calls appropriate acts of divine worship , when we apply them to any creatures , to be only to use them as tokens of inferiour respect and veneration : as invocation , building of temples and altars , burning of incense , making of vows , &c. but that which god hath forbidden is , that we shall not use them to any besides himself , as tokens of that inward submission of our souls which is proper to him . p. d. did not you say , that the appropriation of these acts by the law of moses , being taken away by the ceasing of that law , they are now to be looked on as indifferent rites and ceremonies ? r. p. and what then ? p. d. did that law cease at the coming of christ , that those acts were to be used only to god as tokens of that inward submission which is proper to him ? r. p. no ; that doth never cease . p. d. but this you say was the sense in which god did appropriate them to himself ; and therefore the appropriation doth still continue . r. p. i suppose t. g.'s meaning is , that the appropriation before extended to them as tokens of inferiour respect and veneration , which law ceasing , it is now lawful to use them in that sense . p. d. then these acts under the law , were forbidden in that sense , whatsoever profession or declaration were made by those that used them . as suppose that the jews had invocated saints and angels in their temple or synagogues and worshipped images just as you do , and made the same professions of their meanings and intentions as your church doth ; this had been idolatry in them , but not in you . is this his meaning ? r. p. i suppose it must be . p. d. then inferiour religious worship was once idolatry , but it ceased to be so at the coming of christ. is not this a rare invention ? and by this means christ destroyed idolatry , not by rooting it out , but by making that not to be idolatry which was so before : and so he might take away all other sins by making those breaches of the other nine commandments not to be sins to christians which were so to the jews . but we have not only the express words of christ , making all religious worship of a creature unlawful , against this invention , but the doctrine of the apostles who charged the gentiles with idolatry without regarding this distinction , who were not under the law of moses ; and the consent of the christian church which judged this inferiour religious worship to be idolatry still . and if this be all you have to say , it is impossible to clear your selves from the charge of idolatry , notwithstanding all your meanings and intentions . r. p. i have one thing yet more to say , viz. that christ appropriates the titles of good , father , and master to god , and yet we apply them to men in a different sense , and why may we not do the same in equivocal acts of worship ? p. d. our saviour's design was to deter men from assuming or affecting such titles of excellency , superiority , or authority over others in teaching , as seemed to encroach too much on the divine perfections : but this holds much more against the pretence of infallibility in any person , than for the lawfulness of inferiour religious worship . for christ never forbids the common use of those titles among men , when they have no respect to divine matters ; no more than he doth the acts of civil worship in men towards magistrates or parents ; and thus far the parallel is good , as to words and actions : but as christ doth forbid the affectation of infallibility though of an inferiour sort under the titles of rabbi , father , and master ; so he doth likewise all inferiour sort of religious worship when he saith , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . and therefore the equivocation which lyes in mens power to determine , is not that of the degrees of religious worship , but of the acts of civil and religious worship . but if it be lawful to apply the signification of external acts of worship to higher or lower degrees , why may ye not do the same as to sacrifice , as well as invocation , &c. r. p. this is a scruple which hath troubled the doctours notions from the beginning ; but t. g. gives two answers to it . . that sacrifice in general is both by the custom of the church and the consent of all mankind ( as s. augustine teaches ) appropriated to signifie the absolute worship due only to god. . for the particular sacrifice of the body and blood of christ , the nature and dignity thereof requireth that it be offered to god alone . p. d. i am sorry to see you dissemble the force of the doctours argument , when you pretend to give an answer to it . for he saith , that s. augustine joyns adoration and sacrifice together , as appropriated to signifie the worship peculiar to god. how then , saith dr. st. comes s. augustines authority to be quitted for the one , and so greedily embraced for the other ? what doth t. g. answer to that ? r. p. i do not find he takes notice of s. augustine for any thing more than the consent of mankind about sacrifice . p. d. was it not wisely done ? and then to talk a great deal about the remainder of the doctours discourse , whether sacrifice of it self doth signifie absolute worship more than adoration , without taking notice that s. augustine joyned them together , though the church of rome separates them . and t. g. gives no manner of reason why the antecedent consent of mankind as to one of these should not prevail in your church as well as in the other : which is the main ground according to t. g. why sacrifice ought still to be appropriated to the peculiar worship of god. r. p. what advantage doth the doctor get , by insisting so much on that question , why sacrifice may not be offered to creatures as well as other external acts of worship , for he can only infer from thence that in such case the church of rome might possibly have no external act of worship appropriated to god , if she have none but sacrifice ; but whilest she hath no such custom de facto as offering sacrifice to saints and images , 't is manifest he cannot accuse them in that point of having no external act of worship proper to god , or of giving it to any besides him . p. d. it was to very good purpose that he insisted on that question , on these accounts . . because either it is in the power of the church to appoint appropriate acts of divine worship , or it is not . if it be in the churches power , then sacrifice may be as lawfully offered to the b. virgin , if the church think fit , as prayers and invocations , notwithstanding the general consent of mankind in appropriating sacrifice to god. if not , then there is some antecedent reason why some external acts of worship are appropriated to the absolute worship of god ; if so , then all such acts are appropriated where the same reason holds ; whether it be divine institution , or the consent of mankind in general , or of the fathers of the christian church : and consequently , though the church of rome may reserve sacrifice to god as peculiar to him , yet they may give other acts of divine worship to his creatures , which have the same reason to be appropriated which sacrifice it self hath . . because though in words they seem to appropriate sacrifice to god as a peculiar act of external worship , yet they do in effect overthrow it by these two assertions . ( . ) that its peculiarity is not as being an act of adoration , but upon another account as a significant ceremony of our total subjection to god. and this was that which dr. st. charged your divines with , that they reserve no one act of external adoration as proper to god ; and that they say , that sacrifice doth not naturally signifie any worship of god , but only by the imposition of men . so that your divines confess there is no natural act of divine worship , no external act of adoration which is reserved as peculiar to god ; but only an outward ceremony which doth not of it self signifie the worship of god , nor our subjection to him . but solemn prayers and praises do of themselves signifie our dependence on god , and therefore have an antecedent reason to the consent of mankind , why they should be appropriated to the worship of god. ( . ) that even sacrifice is allowed by the roman church to be offered for the honour of creatures : which dr. st. saith , is joyning creatures together with god in the honour of sacrifice : and if sacrifice be so appropriate to the honour of god that it cannot signifie any thing else , then it is nonsense to sacrifice to god for the honour of another ; if it may signifie any thing else , and be so used in the church of rome , then you do not reserve so much as sacrifice for an appropriate sign of the absolute worship of god. r. p. to what miserable shifts , saith t. g. are men put when they would have such trivial kind of arguing as this to pass for solid reasoning : and it must be a hard world when a man of the doctours abilities must be forced to feign that he doth not know how the same sacrifice may be a propitiation for sins and a thanksgiving for benefits , especially the sacrifice of the altar being the same with that of the cross , in which all the differences of the legal sacrifices were fulfilled . p. d. it is a hard world indeed , when such stuff as this must pass for answering . dr. st. never denyed that thanksgivings might be offered to god in the time of most solemn worship for the graces of his saints ; nor that the circumstances of divine worship might redound to their honour , as the primitive christians offering up their devotions to god at their sepulchres : but the question is , whether it be consistent with the appropriation of sacrifice to the honour of god , to offer it up for the honour of his creatures ; especially the sacrifice of the altar , i. e. the son of god , as a propitiatory sacrifice for the quick and the dead ? r. p. why may not we say , we offer this sacrifice to god in the honour of s. michael , to testifie our application of it in thanksgiving for the favours and graces bestowed on him ? p. d. i pray consider , ( . ) you say , that sacrifice in your church is appropriated to the honour of god ; ( . ) that sacrifice doth not signifie the worship of god of it self , but by institution or consent of mankind . ( . ) then the intention of sacrifice is to signifie that honour which is peculiar to god. now how can it signifie the honour due only to god , if it may signifie the honour due to his creatures ? r. p. is it not for the honour of a person to praise god for him ? and sacrificing being the offer of a present in token of gratitude , doth that diminish or add to the act of thanksgiving ? and if it be a greater declaration of thanksgiving , it must consequently be a greater declaration also of the honour of the person for whom it is offered . p. d. it is one thing to make the graces of saints an occasion of thanksgiving to god , and another to offer up a sacrifice for the honour of the saints , as it is expressed in the offertory . in the former case there is no question but the honour is designed wholly to god as the giver of those graces , although a consequential honour doth redound thereby to the saints themselves ; but in the latter case the intended and designed honour of the very act it self is declared to be to the saints as well as to god himself . if a courtier gives the king solemn thanks for great kindness shewed to one of his subjects , the honour of the action belongs wholly to the king , although occasionally and consequentially it redound to the reputation of the person for whom it is done : but if a courtier on new years day should make a present to the king upon his knees , and say , i offer this new years gift to your majesty in honour of your majesty and of the groom of your stole , or chamberlain of your houshold , &c. how do you think this would be taken at court ? and yet this is just the form of the offertory in your missal . we make this oblation to thee o holy trinity , and for the honour of the blessed virgin and all saints ; can any one say that this is not the designed and intended honour which belongs to the act it self , and not meerly that which is occasional and consequential ? if those who offered cakes to the b. virgin , had said , we offer these cakes to the honour of the blessed trinity and the virgin mary , had not this been joyning them together in the honour of those oblations ? and is it not the same case here ? besides , you are guilty of a greater absurdity , for those might be only eucharistical oblations , but in your sacrifice of the mass , you pretend to make a present you say to god ; but what is it ? nothing less than his own son ; if your doctrine be true . and for what end ? to be a propitiatory sacrifice for the quick and the dead . and is this indeed the present you make to almighty god in honour of his saints ? i cannot with patience think of the absurdities which follow from hence . for how came you to make a present to god of his own son ? when we make a present to any one , it is understood to be of something in our power to bestow , and which we are willing to part with , for his sake to whom we offer it . do you indeed in this sense make a present of the son of god to the father ? have you the power of bestowing him in your hands ? and are you willing to part with your whole right and interest in him ? you are excellent christians the mean while . nay , no sacrifice was truly and properly offered by any person , wherein he did not abandon his right in that which was sacrificed . and therefore you see upon what terms , you make such a present to god by a proper sacrifice of his son to him . but suppose the son of god were to be made a true and proper sacrifice for sins on the altar , how comes it into your hands to offer him up to the father , since the great sacrifice of propitiation was not to be offered by any ordinary priests , but by the high-priest himself , who was to carry the blood into the holy of holies , and there to make intercession for the people ? are you the high-priests of the gospel to offer unto god the great sacrifice of atonement ? is not the great high-priest of our profession entred within the vail , and is there making intercession by vertue of his sacrifice on the cross ? what need then of your offering him up again for propitiation , who offered himself once on the cross for a full , perfect , and sufficient sacrifice , oblation and satisfaction for the sins of the whole world ? we have all the reason in the world to commemorate with great thankfulness and devotion that invaluable sacrifice of the cross , and if you will call the whole eucharistical office a commemorative sacrifice as the ancients did , i shall never quarrel with you about it . but how the sacrifice of the mass comes to be propitiatory as the sacrifice on the cross was , i understand not ; nor how it should be the same with the sacrifice of the cross , and yet of so much less value than it , the one being said by you to be infinite and the other finite ; nor how the destruction of his sacramental and of his natural being should be the same thing ; nor how this sacrifice should be propitiatory only for one sort of sins and not for another ; nor how the son of god can be made a true and proper sacrifice for sin under the species of bread and wine ; nor , what consumptive change that is in him , which according to your selves is necessary to make him such a sacrifice . is he slain again in the mass ? if he be , i can tell who is the judas that betrays him , and who are the jews that crucifie him . if not , how comes a propitiatory sacrifice without shedding of blood ? if the consumptive change be only in the elements , then the elements are sacrificed , and not christ. if it be only a sacramental change , what is that to a sacrifice of propitiation ? and suppose all the other absurdities to be removed , and that the sacrifice of the mass is a true , real , proper and propitiatory sacrifice of the son of god body and soul upon the altar , yet how at last comes this to be giving god thanks for the graces of his saints ? i thought such a sacrifice had been much rather for the expiation of their sins . r. p. i pray sir forbear ; i have no longer patience to hear you talk at this rate against the sacrifice of the mass ; for if you destroy that , we are all undone . methinks as t. g. saith , dr. st.'s arguments against it , might have been expected from the pen of a crellius . p. d. of a crellius ? why so i pray ? he wrote against christs propitiatory sacrifice on the cross ; and as i remember , dr. st. hath answered his arguments ; how comes he then , of all men , to argue like crellius ? r. p. because his reasons against the sacrifice of the mass will hold against that of the cross. p. d. that would be strange ; but let us hear them first and then judge . r. p. why , he looks upon it , as a monstrous absurdity for us to pretend , first to make our god with speaking five words , then to offer up god himself unto god as a sacrifice and consequently to suppose him destroyed , and this all to testifie our submission to god. p. d. and do not you think these horrible absurdities , and such as can never enter into any mans head that is not first resolved to part with his understanding ? r. p. and do not you think these expressions highly injurious to that inestimable sacrifice which christ himself offered upon the cross ? p. d. not at all . for , do we believe , that the jews made an ordinary man to be the eternal son of god by speaking five words over him ? and that the jews then slew him and offered up god , as a sacrifice to god for the expiation of sins ; and all this , as an act of gratitude to god for the graces of his saints ? if not , what colour or pretence is there , that the laying open the absurdity of your sacrifice of the mass , should derogate from the sacrifice of the cross ? r. p. were not the jews scandalized at that most in the sacrifice of the cross , viz. the offering of god to god ? p. d. a crucified saviour , or a suffering messias , was to the jews a stumbling-block , and to the greeks foolishness . but what do you mean by the offering up of god to god , do you think the divinity was the sacrifice ? or the blood of christ , which he being the eternal son of god did offer up to his father , as a propitiation for the sins of mankind ? r. p. might not he be said , to offer up god himself to god as a sacrifice ? p. d. then you must make the divinity the sacrifice ; and how can that be a sacrifice which is capable of no change ? but suppose christ as god and man be said to offer up at least a divine sacrifice ; what is all this to your offering up the son of god as a sacrifice to god for the sins of the world ? r. p. might not those , as t. g. saith , who were at the foot of the cross , offer up the son of god on the cross to the father ? p. d. this is a piece of new divinity ; and far enough i dare say from arguing like crellius . who ever thought , that the jews had the same power to offer up the blood of christ as a propitiatory sacrifice , which himself had who had power over his own life ? if t. g. argues at this rate , none would imagine he hath ever considered the nature of christs sacrifice , since he talks so unskilfully about these matters . r. p. but what doth dr. st. talk of our making and destroying god in the mass , since we believe that the same christ who is in heaven is whole under either species ; and his blood to be separated from his body not really , but mystically only and in representation . p. d. do you believe a true , proper propitiatory sacrifice in the mass , or not ? r. p. do not you know the council of trent hath expresly defined it , and anathematized all those who say the contrary ? p. d. is there any true , proper propitiatory sacrifice , where there is not a consumptive change of that which is sacrificed ? and what is that which is sacrificed in the mass ? not the elements , but christ under them , you say ; if christ be the sacrifice he must be slain again at every mass , as he was once on the cross ; or you can assign no destruction , which you say is necessary to such a true and proper sacrifice . r. p. do not you observe t. g.'s words , that christ is whole under either species , and his blood separated from his body not really , but mystically only , and in representation ? p. d. how is that ? whole christ under the bread , and whole christ under the wine ; and the blood separated from the body not really , but mystically only , and by representation . this is admirable stuff , and true mystical divinity . if the body of christ doth remain whole and entire , where is the true proper sacrifice ? where is the change made , if not in the body of christ ? if that be uncapable of a change , how can it be a true and proper sacrifice ? if the blood be not really separated from the body , where is the mactation , which must be in a propitiatory sacrifice ? if christ do remain whole and entire after all the sacrificial acts , where i say is the true and proper sacrifice ? t. g. had far better said , and more agreeably to scripture , antiquity , and reason , that there is no real and proper sacrifice on the altar , but only mystical and by representation . r. p. but t. g. saith , that religion which admits no external visible sacrifice , must needs be deficient in the most signal part of the publick worship of god. p. d. i pray remember , it is an external and visible sacrifice which you contend for , and now tell me where it is in your church . doth it lye in the mimical gestures of the priest at the altar in imitation of christ on the cross ? if that be it , the necessary consumption of the sacrifice will be no comfortable doctrine to the priest. doth it lye in the consecration of the elements which are visible ? but you say , the essence of the sacrifice consists in the change ; and we can see no visible change made in them , and therefore there is no external and visible sacrifice . besides , if the sacrifice did lye in the change of the elements after consecration into the body of christ , then the elements are the thing sacrificed and not the body of christ , for the destructive change is as to the elements , and not as to the body of christ. or doth it lye in the swallowing down , and consumption of the species after consecration by the priest ? but here likewise the change is in the accidents and not in the body of christ , which remains whole and entire though the species be consumed ; and i think there is some difference between changing ones seat and being sacrificed . for all that the body of christ is pretended to be changed in , is only its being no longer under the species , but t. g. i suppose will allow it to be whole and entire still . doth it then lye in pronouncing the words of consecration upon which the body of christ is under the species of bread , and the blood under that of wine , and so separated from the body ? but this can least of all be , since t. g. assures us that whole christ is under the bread as well as under the wine ; and so there cannot be so much as a moment of real separation between them ; and we know how necessary for other purposes the doctrine of concomitancy is . tell me then where is your external and visible sacrifice which you boast so much of ; since according to your own principles there is nothing that belongs to the essence of a sacrifice is external and visible , and consequently your own church labours under the defect t. g. complains of . r. p. but what makes dr. st. so bitter against the sacrifice of the altar , since the most true and genuine sons of the church of england do allow it ; as mr. thorndike , dr. heylin , and bishop andrews ? and doth not this rather look like betraying the church of england than defending it ? p. d. i see now you are wheeling about to your first post , and therefore it is time to give you a space of breathing . your great business is to set us at variance among our selves , but you have hitherto failed in your attempts , and i hope will do . i do not think any two or three men , though never so learned make the church of england ; her sense is to be seen in the publick acts and offices belonging to it . and in the articles to which t. g. sometimes appeals , your sacrifices on the altar are called blasphemous figments , and dangerous impostures . but as to these three persons i answer thus ; . mr. thorndike , as i have shewed already , declares against the true proper sacrifice defined by the council of trent as an innovation and a contradiction . and that which he pleads for , is , that the eucharist is a commemorative and representative sacrifice , about which dr. st. would never contend with him or any one else : and immediately after the words cited by t. g. he adds these ; it is therefore enough , that the eucharist is the sacrifice of christ on the cross , as the sacrifice of christ on the cross is represented , renewed , revived , and restored by it , and as every representation is said to be the same thing with that which it representeth . . pet. heylins words are expresly only for a commemorative sacrifice , as t. g. himself produces them ; and therefore i wonder what t. g. meant in citing them at large : for he quotes the english liturgie for the sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving ; and s. chrysostom calling it the remembrance of a sacrifice ; and many of our learned writers , a commemorative sacrifice . what is there in all this in the least repugnant to what dr. st. had delivered ? r. p. but he quotes bishop andrews , saying , take from the mass your transubstantiation , and we will have no difference with you about the sacrfiice . p. d. bishop andrews calls the eucharist a commemorative sacrifice , and he saith , it was properly eucharistical , or of the nature of peace-offerings , concerning which the law was , that he that offered should partake of them ; and a little after follow those words you mention : to which he adds , we yield you that there is a remembrance of christs sacrifice ; but we shall never yield that your christ being made of bread is there sacrificed . which is the very thing , that t. g. is so angry with dr. st. about . and have not you bravely proved that dr. st. hath herein gone against the sense of the genuine sons of the church of england ? if you have any thing yet left which you think material i pray let us have it now , for fear lest t. g. make use of it to stuff out another book . r. p. i think we are near the bottom . p. d. so i imagine by the dregs which came last . r. p. there is one thing yet left for a close : which is , dr. st. saith , supposing this sacrifice were allowed , yet this doth not prove that we reserve any external act of worship belonging to all christians , because this sacrifice belongs to the priests only to offer . p. d. and what answer doth t. g. give to that ? r. p. he saith , that nothing is more notorious than that those of the church of rome , are bound on every sunday and holy day to hear mass. p. d. to hear mass ! a very christian duty no doubt , especially if they understand never a word of it , and as diana saith , a man is not bound to hear a word that is said : but what then ? r. p. by this external act , he saith , they testifie the uniting their intention with the priest as the publick officer of the church in the oblation of the sacrifice . p. d. i have often heard of the skill you have of directing intentions , but i never knew of this knack of uniting intentions before . i know how necessary the priests intention is in your church , but what if the people should fail of uniting their intention with his , ( as they often think and talk of other things at hearing mass ) would it not be a sacrifice without the vnion of their intentions ? suppose the priests intention should wander , what would the peoples uniting their intentions signifie towards the sacrifice ? you will not say , they have any power to offer the sacrifice ; therefore the act of sacrificing belongs only to the priest , whether the peoples intentions be united or not . if the people first offered that which was to be sacrificed , to the priest , and then he sacrificed it in their name ( as among the jews ) they might be said to have a share in the sacrifice ; but when the sacrifice is supposed to come down from heaven upon the priests words , and he doth not represent the people but christ in the act of sacrificing , what doth the peoples uniting their intentions signifie to the sacrifice ? i pray tell me in whose name doth the priest pretend to the power of offering up the body of christ in sacrifice on the altar , the peoples , or christs ? r. p. in the name of christ doubtless , for the people have no power to do it . p. d. if they have no power to do it , and all the authority be supposed to be derived from christ for doing it , what doth the uniting the peoples intentions with the priests signifie as to the offering up the sacrifice ? you might as well say , that the jews under the cross might unite their intentions to christs in offering himself on the cross to the father , and so it might become their act as well as christ's . but in my mind your phrase of hearing and seeing mass is much more proper ( if men were bound either to hear or see , which your casuists say , they are not ) than this of uniting their intentions with the priest , which is absurd and ridiculous . doth t. g. so little consider the honour of the priestly office as to talk of the peoples uniting their intentions with the priests in the oblation of the sacrifice ? the next step may be , that the sacrificing may depend on the peoples intentions as well as the priests ; and what a case are you in then ? aquinas and cajetan were much wiser than t. g. in this matter , for they both declare that this sacrifice belongs only to the priests and not to the people ; as dr. st. told t. g. r. p. t. g. saith , he cannot find the citation in the place quoted by him ; but he dares affirm that cajetan was not so silly a divine as to deny it to belong to the people to offer the sacrifice by and with the priest. p. d. and i dare affirm cajetan was much wiser than to say , that the offering the sacrifice did in any sense belong to the people ; and so much t. g. might have found in the place cited by the doctour , only qu. . was put for q. . and not as cajetans bare opinion , but as the judgement of aquinas too . he saith indeed , that the priests do offer the sacrifice for themselves and others ; but he was not so silly to imagine that they were to unite their intentions with the priests in the oblation ; but that expression only shews for whose sake and not in whose name the sacrifice was offered . for there are other sacrifices , saith he , which every one may offer for himself , and those , saith cajetan , are spiritual sacrifices of devotion and vertue ; but for the sacrifice of the altar , that belongs only to the priests and officers of the church . r. p. but the very mass-book calls it meum ac vestrum sacrificium ; and desires god to accept it for all those pro quibus tibi offerimus , vel qui tibi offerunt hoc sacrificium . p. d. i will tell you the mysterie of this business , and so put an end to this long conference . it was the ancient custom of the roman church as well as others for the communicants to make an oblation of the bread and wine at the altar , of which they were afterwards to partake . this i prove from the sacramentary of s. gregory published by pamelius , where it is said , while the offertory is singing ; i. e. the anthem then used , the oblations are made by the people and laid upon the altar that they might be consecrated . and the ordo romanus declares these oblations to be the bread and wine : of which , it adds , that the arch-deacon took as much and laid upon the altar , as would serve for the people that were to communicate . these oblations continued in the church a long time , and were inforced by canons and constitutions when the people began to slacken in their devotion . upon which the church of rome thought fit to bring in the use of wafers instead of common bread , and so these oblations grew into disuse , or were turned into offerings of money instead of them . sirmondus and card. bona have proved beyond all dispute , that the ancient latin church did use common and leavened bread in the eucharist that was offered by the people till a thousand years after christ. but then the doctrine of transubstantiation coming into the roman church , it was no longer thought fit that the bread which was to be turned into the son of god should be made after a common manner , or with the unsanctified hands of the laity , but by those who did attend upon the altar : remembring what the good woman told gregory i. that she wondred that the bread which she made with her own hands should be called the body of jesus christ ; which the people had more reason to do , when they came to define the manner of the presence , as they did about this time ; although it were not made an article of faith till afterwards . from hence the dispute began between the greeks and latins about unleavened bread ; and from henceforward the custom of oblations for the service of the altar declined and is only kept up on some particular solemnities , as canonization of saints , inauguration of princes , consecration of bishops , marriages and funerals ; however the same form of words continues still in the offices , as if the oblations of bread and wine were still made by the people ; and so sirmondus and bona both say those expressions of the mass-book , you mention , are to be understood of these oblations of the people , and not of the sacrifice of christs body . and that these oblations were called sacrifices appears by the known passages of s. cyprian , locuples & dives es & dominicum celebrare te credis , quae in dominicum sine sacrificio venis , quae partem de sacrificio quod pauper obtulit sumis ? in which he blames the rich women that came without an oblation , which he calls a sacrifice , and did partake of that which the poor offered ; which s. augustin calls de aliena oblatione communicare ; and therefore he bids all communicants to make their own oblations at the altar . but suppose these expressions were not to be understood of the oblations of the people ( as it is certain the prayers called secretae and the first part of the canon of the mass are ) yet it was not fairly done of t. g. to leave out a very significant word which immediately followed , viz. laudis , qui tibi offerunt hoc sacrificium laudis . if the people be allowed their share in the eucharistical sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving , what is this to their offering up the proper propitiatory sacrifice of the body of christ ? i do not deny that the people had a share in the sacrifice according to the sense of antiquity ; not only from their oblations , but because as cassander well observes , the ancients did call the whole eucharistical office , as it took in the peoples part as well as the priests , by the name of a sacrifice ; and so the oblations , prayers , thanksgivings , consecration , commemoration , distribution , participation did all belong to the sacrifice . but since you restrain the true and proper sacrifice to the oblation of the body of christ to god by the priest , dr. st. had reason to say , that the sacrifice among you belongs to the priests , and is not an external act of worship common to all . and so according to the sense you put on the mass-book , you leave no one act of peculiar external worship appropriated to god which is to be performed by all christians ; which was the thing to be proved . the end . books printed for , and sold by henry mortlock at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard , and at the white hart in westminster-hall . a rational account of the grounds of protestant religion ; being a vindication of the lord-archbishop of canterbury's relation of a conference , &c. from the pretended answer of t. c. folio . sermons preached upon several occasions , with a discourse annexed concerning the true reasons of the sufferings of christ , wherein crellius's answer to grotius is considered . folio . irenicum : a weapon-salve for the churches wounds : in quarto . origines sacrae : or , a rational account of the grounds of christian faith , as to the truth and divine authority of the scriptures , and matters therein contained , quarto . a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , in answer to some papers of a revolred protestant , wherein a particular account is given of the fanaticisms and divisions of that church , octavo . an answer to several late treatises occasioned by a book entituled , a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it , the first part , octovo . a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith , against the pretence of infallibility in the roman church , in answer to the guide in controversie , by r. h. protestancy without principles , and reason and religion ; or the certain rule of faith , by e. w. with a particular enquiry into the miracles of the roman church , octavo . an answer to mr. cressey's epistle apologetical to a person of honour , touching his vindication of dr. stillingfleet , octavo . a defence of the discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , in answer to a book entituled , catholicks no idolaters ; all written by edward stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. pauls , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the rule of faith ; or , an answer to the treatise of mr. i. s. entituled , sure footing , &c. by john tillotson , d. d. preacher to the honourable society of lincolns-inn . to which is adjoyned a reply to mr. i. s. his third appendix , &c. by edw. stillingfleet , d. d. dean of st. pauls , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the antiquities of nottinghamshire , extracted out of records , original evidences , lieger books , other manuscripts , and authentick authorities , beautified with maps , prospects and portraictures , by robert thoroton , dr. of physick , folio . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e dial p. . p. . cath. no idol . p. . dial. p. . preface to cath. no idol . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . cypr. anglic . p . ed. p. ● . necessary introd to the history of b. laud. p. . conference with fisher. p. . history of his tryal . p. . cypr. angl. p. · dial. p. . dial. p. . cypr. angl. p. . dial. p. . hincmar . de praedest . c. . lanfranc . de corp. & sang. christ. c. . guitm . de sacr . l. . cajet . in aquin. . p. q. . art . . & . & ● . aq. . dist . . q. . ar . . conink de sacr . qu. . art . . maerat . de sacr . disp . . sect . . lugo de sacram. disp . . §. . suarez in . p. disp . . art . ▪ §. . gamach . i● . p. qu. . c. . ysambert . qu. . disp . . art . . vasq. in . p. disp . . c. . art . . p. . dial. p. , . cypr. angl. p. . ed. p. . dial. p. . to . laws of the ch. ch. . p. . dial. p. . &c. cypr. angl. p. . cypr. angl. p. . dial. p. , , &c. dial. p. ● ▪ dial. p. . prodr . p. . b. andrews resp. ad apolog. bell. p. . compared with bur●●il . de●ens . respons . ad apolog. c. . q. . b. sanders . preface to his serm. §. . de obligat . cons. prael . . §. . dial. p. , &c. p. . dial. p. . p. . p. . dial. p. , , . dial. p. , . p. . defence p. . notes for div a -e joh. rosin . vit . ●●ed . sapient . dial. p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. , . pontificale rom. de ordinat . presbyt . concil . trident. sess. . c. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. p. . p. . scot. in s●nt . l. . dist . . q. . biel. in s●nt . q. . cajet . in . p. q. . art . . morin . de ordin . part . . exercit. . c. . ● . . alex. al. . p. q. . memb . . art . . §. . ad . scot. in . dist . . q. . resp . ad . morin . ib. exerc . . c. . n. , . grat. . q. . post can . . gul. pa●is . de sacr. ord. c. . morin . de ord. sacr. p. . ex . . c. . n. . conc. trid. sess . . can . . s. hier. de script . eccles . in fortunat . in chronico . libel . precum , p. . baron . a d. . n. . pet. dam. gom. opuse , . c. . libel . prec . p. . subscribentes in illâ fide arianorum , quam integro & libero judicio damnaverant . advertit sapientia vestra , ariminensem synodum , piissimè coeptam , sed impiissimè terminatam . dial. p. , . dial. p. . dial. p. , . b. sanderson gen. . . n. . dial. p. , . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . ire● . p. . p. . iren. p. . answer to several treat . part . from p. ● , to ● . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. defence , p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. from p. . to p. . dial. p. . dial. from p. . to . p. , . p. . defence , from p. . to p. . (*) from p. . to p. . (†) from p. . to p. . (*) from p. . to p. . (†) from p. . to p. . dial. p. , . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence p. , &c. from p. . to p. . from p. . to p. . from p. . to p. . notes for div a -e dial. p. , , . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. * p. . to p. . † defence , p. , &c. p. , &c. * p. , &c. † p. . to p. . * p. . to p. . † p. , &c. * p. . to p. . † p. . to p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . to . dial. p. . speech in star-chamber , p. , . canterbury's tryal , p. . defence , p. , &c. defence , p. , &c. from p. . to p. . from p. . to p. . dial. p. . prodr●m . p. . dial. p. . defence from p. , to p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. * defence , p. . p. . † from p. . to p. . p. , &c. defence , p. , , , . p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . defence , p. . defence , p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . defence p. . defence p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence p. . rat. acc. p. , . arist. anal. post. l. . c. . n. , , . metaph. l. . c. . l. . c. . philop. in analyt . l. . p. . * metaph. l. . c. . themist . in analyt . post. l. . 〈…〉 . l. . c. . n. . arrian . l. . c. . galen . de hippocr . & plat. decret . l. . rat. acc. p. , . dial. ● . . p. . origines sacrae l. . & . dial. p. . * defence from p. ● . to . * defence , from p. . to p. . † defence , from p. . to p. . * defence , from p. . to p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. dial. from p. . to p. . defence , p. . p. . dial. p. . defence , p. , . dial. p. , , . defence , p. . dial. p. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. , . defence , p. , , . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . greg. naz. ep. . theod. dial. . greg. nyss. in vit . greg. p. . niceph. callist . l. . c. . defence p. , to . defence , p. . to . cassand . ep. . op. p. . greg. nyssen orat. in theod. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . d. forbes consid. modest . & pacif . p. . p. . concil . laodic . c. . theod. in col. . . t. g. cathol . no idol . p. . defence , p. . to p. . bell. de bonis oper . in particul . l. . c. . greg. nyssen orat . . de orat . orat . . de orat . dom. tract . . de inscript . psalm c. . ambros. de obit . theod. chrysost. in cor. hom. . in coloss. . hom. . aug. confess● . l. . c. ● . clem. ●●rom . l. . tirtul . apol . c. . orig. l. . in epist. ad rom. c. . defence , p. . dial. p. . 〈◊〉 l. . p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . to p. . p. . defence , p. . def. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . notes for div a -e dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . syn. chron. p. . aug. c. cre●● . l. . c. , . dial. p. ● . p. . p. . defence , p. . p. , . defence , , &c. pausan. in arcad. euseb. chron. p. . isid. orig. l. . aug. de civ . dei l. . c. . lact. l. . c. . aug. de civ . dei l. . c. , ▪ rom. . . defence ▪ p. , . defence from p. . to p. . dial. from p. . to p. . c. gentes l. . c. . dial. p. . p. , &c. p. , &c. p. . def. p. . defence p. . defence p. , &c. dial. p. ● . dial. p. . defence p. . def. p. . athenag . leg . pro christian. p. , . dial. p. , , . legat. p. . athen. p. . p. . athen. p. . cath. no idol . p. , . dial. p. . tertul. de spect . c. . ad s●ap . c. . de spect . c. . apol. c. . apolog. c. . dial. p. . apolog. c. . dial p. , &c. defence p. . dial. p. . defence p. . dial. p. . defence p. . p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. ● , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence , . to p. . de civ . dei l. . c. . c. . defence , p. , &c. euseb. praep. l. . c. . dial. p. . dial. p. . minuc . p. . dial. p. . hier. in is. . l. . dial. p. . defence p. . p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , . dial. p. , to . dial. p. , . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . de civil . dei , l. . c. . de civit. dei , l. . c. . l. . c. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence p. , to . * defence p. . † p. . * p. . † p. , . * p. . † p. . * p. . dial. p. , . lact. l. . c. , . c. , . l. . c. . defence , p. . p. . defence ▪ p. . dial. p. , , , . voss. de idolol . l. . c. . dial. p. . aqu. c. gentes l. . c. . cathol . no idol . p. , &c. dial. p. , . cath. no idol . p. . defence ; p. , . dial. p. . p. . p. . dr. st. defence p. , . aug. de civit. dei , l. . c. . oros. l. ● . c. . cypr. op . p. . ed. goulant . aug. c. faust. l. 〈◊〉 c. . dial. p. . , . defence , p. , &c. p. , &c. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . mat. . . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence , p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence , p. , to . dial. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . p. . dial. p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. p. . dial. p. , &c. dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p , . dial. p , , &c. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. , . defence , p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . p. . defence , p. , . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . dial. p. . sess. . c. . . can . . . dial. p. . dial. p. , &c. articl . . p. , . laws of the church . p. . heylins introd . n. . ad bell. apol. resp. p. . dial. p. . dian. sum. p. . dial. p. . defence , p. . dial. p. . cajet . . . qu. . art . . liturg. lat. ● . . p. . cassandr . liturg. c. . concil . matis . c. . capit. car. m. l. . c. . sirmond . de azym . c. . bona de r●bus liturg. l. . c. . §. . joh. diac. in vit . greg. c. . sirm. de azy . c. . bona de reb . liturg. l. . c. . §. . cypr. de opere & eleemosyn . aug. serm. . de temp . cassand . consult . de sacrif . corp. & sang. christi . an answer to several late treatises, occasioned by a book entituled a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome, and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it. the first part by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : or : ) an answer to several late treatises, occasioned by a book entituled a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome, and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it. the first part by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, - . [ ], p. printed by r.w. for henry mortlock, london : . errata: prelim. p. [ ]. a second part with title, a second discourse in vindication of the protestant grounds of faith ... london, , was published during trinity term. reproduction of original in duke university library and huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng stillingfleet, edward, - . -- discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome. catholic church -- controversial literature. church of england -- relations -- catholic church. idols and images. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , sam. parker r. in christo patri ac d no. d no. gilberto , arch. episc. cantuar. à sac . dom. april . . an answer to several late treatises , occasioned by a book entituled a discourse concerning the idolatry practised in the church of rome , and the hazard of salvation in the communion of it . by edward stillingfleet d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . the first part. london , printed by r. w. for henry mortlock , and are to be sold at his shop , at the sign of the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard . . the general preface . it is not for any pleasure i take in controversie , nor out of a resolution to maintain what i have once written , that i expose my self again to the censures of some , and the rage of others , in defence of our church against the church of rome : but out of a just sense of the weight and goodness of the cause i have undertaken ; which ( if my affection to it hath not strangely blinded my judgement ) doth highly concern us as men , as english men , and as christians . for it is the cause of sense and reason , against the absurd doctrines they impose on both ; it is the cause of our nation against the usurpation and tyranny of a forrain power ; it is the cause of the true faith and christianity , against the errors and corruptions of the roman church . to abandon such a cause as this , were to betray the things which ought to be most dear to us : for we cannot be reconciled to that church on any easier terms , than renouncing our sense and reason , enslaving our country , and hazarding our salvation . and what can they give us in exchange for these ? it was the last of those three heads , which gave occasion to the late so much railed at , and so little confuted book : which no sooner appeared , but as if some dreadful monster had risen out of the earth , some crossed themselves and kept as far out of the sight of it , as they could ; others made hideous out-crys and grievous complaints ; and the more fearful sort were forbidden either looking on it , or entertaining any discourse about it . upon which i pleased my self that i had not added another chapter to the book ; for if that number had agreed with the ten particulars , it had passed among them for the beast with seven heads and ten horns ; and they would have been glad their city upon seven hills could have been so excused . but this unusual noise and clamour awakened the curiosity of many who love to see strange sights ; and that which otherwise might have been wholly neglected as a book , was enquired after and looked into , being represented as a monster . but when they found that this evil spirit ( as they accounted it ) which themselves had raised , was not to be laid again by hard words and ill language ; they began to consider what other course was to be taken to suppress it . and forthwith there starts up a young sophister among them , and bids them be of good heart ; for by letting flie at him some squibs and crackers he did not question , but he should put this monster into such a rage , as to make him fall upon himself ; which design being highly approved ; in a short time came forth that dapper piece , called doct. stillingfleet against doct. stillingfleet . it was a notable plot , and cunningly managed , as the reader may see by the following answer to it . after him a graver person undertakes the service ; but as hasenmullerus tells us , when ignatius loyola sent one of his brethren at rome to dispossess a person , he gave him this instruction , that he should be sure to come behind the devil , if he would drive him out ; accordingly this n. o. steals quite behind my book , and began to confute it at the wrong end , hoping by that means to drive out the evil spirit which he supposed to lodge in the body of it . which he hath performed with great dexterity and success , as the reader may be fully satisfied in the reply here following . these two i undertook , before any other appeared , and intended to have published these two answers by themselves ; but finding others that had written against me on the same argument i was willing to bring as much as i could together to prevent confusion or repetition . all which relating to the principles of faith , and the rosolution , and rule of it , i made account to have dispatched at once ; but finding the book begin to swell into too great a bulk , i have respited some parts of it to another opportunity . when those two men had done their feats , an ancient and experienced exorcist ; ( and yet for all that no conjurer ) saw plainly this spirit must be conjured down ; and thefore knowing the great efficacy of charms , he gives his book the title of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 stillingfleeton . which words put me almost in as great a fright as the holy chair would have done ; i began to consider , whether mengus or any other of their skilful men had ever used those emphatical words before ; but i am willing to believe it was the sole invention of j. v. c. and i doubt not but they will do well hereafter in exorcisms , especially after the holy potion , when the person to be dispossessed is made sufficiently sick with rue and sallet-oyl and other excellent physick for devils . i find by some of their authors , it is a great matter to get the right name of the spirit ; this j. v. c. hath hit unluckily , in calling this monster the leviathan sporting in the waters , since they have thrown out so many empty vessels for him to play with . and his three books of charms , have been no unpleasant entertainment ; but he is gone ; and i love not to tread hard on the graves of my enemies . what there appears material in him ( if anything do so ) i shall consider it in its proper place ; chiefly for the sake of my iudicious adversary dr. t. g. who was the first and i think the only person that hath discovered his book to be a learned treatise . but my generous adversaries , finding so little success in single attempts , they next fall upon me with chain-shot ; viz. a collection of several treatises against doct. stillingfleet . to make up the number , they bring in one before published , to try an experiment what force that can have in conjunction which had none of it self . the first undertaker therein , is , the very calm and ( according to his new christian name ) serene mr. cressy , the man that hath learnt to mortifie passions by mystical divinity ; but is so far from being sublimed and rectified , by that chymical way of devotion , that he seems yet to remain in the very dregs of them : the man , that hath so accustomed him-self to legends , that he cannot write against an adversary , without making one of him . and although there be many very pleasant ones in his church-history , yet i hardly think there are many more wonderful , than ( if his insinuations had any colour of truth in them ) the first part of my life had been . for by making me so active in those times , when i was uncapable of understanding what they were , he seems to represent me as one that had so passionate a zeal for presbytery in my cradle , that i would suck of none but a scottish nurse ; that the first word i pronounced was covenant ; that i would go to school to none but lay-elders ; and was cursing meroz before the parliament at eight years old . is not this a hopeful beginning for a good legend ? will he , saith he , or they damn the execrable covenant ? as though , i had ever any thing to do with it but when i renounced it ! if i should tell him , that as great a friend as he takes me to have been to presbytery and the late times , even then i was entred into episcopal orders by a most worthy and learned prelate of our church ; that , i never subscribed any address to the usurpers , as some in the world have done , and those who would now be thought the kings most loyal subjects ; that i never drew off any one person from their allegiance to the king to submit to to the popes nuncio , ( let those who did it clear themselves ) even such an apology would give too much countenance to so pitiful a calumniator . i thank him that he hath not charged me with laying the first platform of presbytery at geneva , or having a hand in the first and second admonitions in the days of queen elizabeth ; and i might as will charge him with the gunpowder treason , as he doth me with any thing about the covenant . by this we may guess what ecclesiastical history we are to expect from him , who writes so at random about the matters of our own times . but the man is to be pitied ; he was under one of mother juliana's fits , he writ with a good mind , but he knew not what . some vent must be given to a violent fermentation , else the vessel might burst asunder ; and i hope the good man is somewhat more at ease , since he purged away so much choler . i assure him i can with pleasure read what he wrote with rage ; and laugh at the violence of such passions , which like a gun ill charged may give fire and make a great noise , but doth the greatest mischief to him that holds it . if i would pursue him through all his heats , i must undergo the ordeal-tryal , touch firebrands without hurting my self : which although i might do , yet i know my adversaries are so implacable , that even that would not convince them of my innocence . i leave him therefore to grow cooler and wiser ; but i beseech him for his own sake , that he would attempt no more the justifying the union of nothing with nothing , and for the sake of religion , that he would not call god any more an incomprehensible nothing ; a description fit only for the atheists catechism . if there were any thing in his railing book which looked like reason or argument i might perhaps at my leisure be perswaded to answer it ; though i do not love to have to do with mad men , no not in their lucid intervals . the next that follows is one that goes about to vindicate the roman churches devotions and doctrine of repentance and indulgencies , he is a meer pattern of meekness , compared with s. c. , he writes pertinently and without the others bitterness and passion . his great endeavour is to clear the honour of his church , from the absurd doctrines and practices charged upon it . and the force of all , he saith lies in this , that where the church hath defined nothing in her councils , it is to no purpose to object that such doctrines are taught by some in it ; for those who defend their separation from the communion of a church by reason of its erroneous or corrupt doctrines must make it appear that those are taught by it , and the belief of them also exacted from its subjects . to this purpose s. c. likewise speaks ( in some of his lucid intervalls ) and i perceive this is become a common topick among them , to take off the odium of such opinions and practices as they are willing enough , but ashamed to defend , which i shall in this place briefly remove . the thing i was to prove was , that persons in the communion of the roman church do run great hazard of their salvation : for which i instanced particularly in several opinions and practices which are very apt to hinder a good life which is necessary to salvation . now a twofold question here arises . . whether the church may justly be charged with those doctrines and practices ? . whether , although the church may not directly be charged to have decreed them in her councils , yet so much countenance and encouragement be not commonly given to them in that church , that particular persons do run great hazard of their salvation by reason of them ? for which we are to consider , that it hath been the method of the roman church to allow many more things in common belief and practice than it hath dared for very shame to decree in councils , especially when such things have been objected by her enemies . in this case it hath been thought the most prudent course for the councils to speak deceitfully and in general terms , so as to give as little advantage as may be to their enemies , and yet to retain ground enough to uphold their former opinions and practices : which still continuing in vogue and reputation , become so much the more dangerous to mens souls , because their councils having had opportunity to have declared effectually against them were so far from it , that by their doubtful expressions they have left ground enough for the continuance of them . now from hence the directors of conscience among them frame their opinions , and the people think it their duty blindly to follow them ; and supposing any one among them should scruple any such doctrine or practice , to whom must he resort but to his confessors , and will any such dare to condemn what is generally received although not decreed by councils ? or if he should , dare any person rely on his private judgement when it is contrary to the most received doctrine or practice ? besides , the promises of infallibility are supposed by them to be primarily made to the church , and only by way of representation to the council ; and therefore doctrines or practices generally received and allowed by the teachers of the church and the guides of conscience , must be received by them as true and good ; for otherwise those promises would fail to the church in its diffusive capacity , and consequently , supposing no general council , it were possible for the most erroneous and pernicious doctrines and practices to prevail in the church , which must utterly overthrow all pretence to infallibility . but in our present case we need not run so far , for i shall here prove that in the most material points insisted on by n. o. viz. the doctrine of the efficacy of the sacraments ex opere operato , and of indulgences , we do justly charge the church of rome even in the decrees of her councils with laying such a foundation , as doth overthrow the necessity of a good life . the way he takes to vindicate those points from this consequence is this , that the sacramenta mortuorum , viz. baptism and penance which confer justifying grace do require a subject rightly disposed ; and the sacramenta vivorum , viz. confirmation , eucharist and extreme unction , do require the receiver to be actually in a state of grace ; the same , he saith of indulgences , that the benefit of them doth suppose a man put into a state of grace by the sacrament of penance ; so that the whole matter is put upon this issue , whether their doctrine concerning the conditions by which a man may be put into a state of grace , be not such as doth overthrow the necessity of a good life ? and it being acknowledged that the sacrament of penance doth confer the grace of justification on all persons rightly disposed for it , our only business is to enquire what necessary conditions their church requires in order to it . for which we appeal to the words of the council of trent , for session . c. . that plainly determins , that imperfect contrition or attrition although it cannot bring men to justification without the sacrament of penance , yet it doth dispose men for obtaining the grace of god by the sacrament of penance . if we joyn this now with another decree of the same council , viz. * that the sacraments do conferr grace on all those who are disposed to receive it ; i leave it now to any one to judge , whether from hence it doth not necessarily follow , that all those that have but imperfect contrition , or bare attrition for their sins , are by the sacrament of penance put into a state of grace , according to the doctrine of the council of trent ? and how far this overthrows the necessity of a good life , will appear from the explication of contrition and attrition given by the same council . contrition is defined , to be , a grief of mind and detestation of sin committed , with a purpose of sinning no more ; therefore imperfect contrition or attrition must be such a grief and detestation of sin past , as implies but an imperfect purpose of sinning no more . from which it evidently follows , that by the doctrine of this council a man may be put into a state of grace without so much as a firm or perfect purpose of sinning no more . and can there be a doctrine invented by men that doth more effectually destroy the necessity of a good life than this doth ? for the state of grace puts a man actually into the favour of god ; and supposing him to fall into mortal sin afterwards , all he needs to do , is only to repeat the same kind of attrition and receive the sacrament of penance and he is perfectly sound again and recovers the favour of god. i know the council there saith , that this attrition must exclude voluntatem peccandi , as o. n. observes ; but that implies no more than a man 's not having at that time a purpose to sin again ; and the council distinguishes it from the propositum non peccandi de caetero , or the purpose not to sin again , which the council applies to contrition as the other to attrition . and cajetan himself quoted by o. n. calls it an imperfect purpose of not sinning . so that after all the evasions which have been yet , or can be produced , the roman churches doctrine of repentance and indulgences doth most dangerously obstruct devotion and a good life . i desire therefore o. n. and his brethren to be a little more sparing in their censures of us as unfaithfully representing the doctrine of their church , for we understand it much better , and represent it more truly , than they desire . but supposing the words of the council were ambiguous in this matter , what better help can we have to understand it , than the sense of their most eminent and learned instructours of conscience ? and those not of the single order of jesuits , as some would have it believed , but of all sorts among them . melchior canus who was far enough from being a friend of the jesuits , saith expresly , although a man knows he hath not contrition but bare attrition , he may come to the sacrament and receive grace by it ; for which he gives this reason , because baptism and penance , are sacramenta mortuorum ; and therefore those who are under mortal sin if they have attrition whereby the impediment is removed may not only come to them , but go away with the grace conferred , because the sacraments always conferr grace , where the impediment is removed . and he is followed herein , saith morinus , not only by lopez , pesantius , nicol. isambertus professor of divinity at paris , but by the fargreatest number of their modern divines . i shall not so much as mention the jesuitical casuists whose testimonies are produced in the jesuits morals , or provincial letters , such as filliutius , amicus , sa , escobar , bauny , &c. but i shall name some of far greater authority among them . o. n. frequently cites paul layman with expressions of esteem , and he determins that true contrition is not necessary to the sacrament of penance after the commission of mortal sin , but attrition is sufficient although a man know it to be only attrition . if they had made attrition only necessary to the sacrament of baptism , they might have pleaded , that they had not destroyed the necessity of a good life afterwards to preserve the grace conveyed in baptism ; but we see in the case of mortal sin afterwards toties quoties no more is necessary but a new act of attrition , and that not only when a man mistakes it to be contrition ; but though a man knows it to be bare attrition . i confess cardinal tolet , although he asserts the substance of the doctrine , yet he saith attrition only serves when it is mistaken for contrition ; but this morinus tells us the later divines laugh at and explode . cardinal lugo not only contends for the doctrine , but asserts it to be the doctrine of the council of trent , viz. that attrition with the sacrament of penance is sufficient for the grace of justification ; and quotes suarez , vasquez and maeratius , as sufficiently proving from the words of the council , that attrition is the next disposition to the grace of justification conveyed by the sacrament ; and this attrition he there shews against sylvius , doth not imply an imperfect love of god above all ; which is directly contrary to o. n. and in another place he proves , that a man is not bound always to contrition for his sins although they be mortal ; for saith he , if he were , then a man having attrition cannot be excused but only by invincible ignorance from a new mortal sin in coming to the sacrament of penance without contrition , because some time is commonly supposed to intervene between a mans attrition and his justification by the sacrament , in which time he would sin mortally by omitting contrition , if he were obliged to it ; but this , saith he , is against the common opinion of divines , that a man contracts any new guilt by omitting contrition . nay he afterwards determins , that a man that hath received the sacrament of penance with bare attrition is not bound , under the guilt of mortal sin , for omitting it , to an act of contrition at the point of death ; which is , he saith , the commonly received opinion among them , and he quotes diana , coninch , becanus , layman , fagundez , faber , turrianus , salas and others for it . the great argument he brings , is , because confessors do not think themselves obliged to put men in mind of an act of contrition at that time as necessary , as common experience shews . and are not such confessors excellent guides to heaven the mean while ? if they be , they have found out a much broader way and wider gate than ever christ intended . what not one single act of contrition necessary ! no , not at the point of death ! what pity it is for sinners , you have not the keeping of heaven-gates ? how do they want the sacrament of penance in hell , for no doubt there is attrition good store there ! but above all of them commend me to honest gregor . de valentiâ , who not only makes contrition unnecessary , but saith it is rather a hindrance to the effect of the sacraments . from whence morinus justly infers , that a confessor ought not to perswade the penitent to contrition ; nor the penitent to endeavour after it . nay morinus shews , that grave men and famous in their church do assert that a penitent having received the sacrament of penance , is not bound to so much as one act of contrition or the love of god in order to his reconciliation with god. yea , although a man hath hated god to the last act of his life if he receives the sacrament of penance , they deny that it is necessary for him to be contrite for his sins or to love god. nothing could go beyond this but what follows in him , that the excellency of the evangelical sacraments above the legal consists in this , that the evangelical sacraments have freed us from the most heavy yoke 〈◊〉 of contrition and the love of god. o admirable guides of conscience ! i do not at all question but jews , turks and heathens have a much better and truer notion of repentance , than these men ; the pagan philosophers were christians to them . and what injury have i done them now , in charging such things upon them which obstruct devotion and overthrow the necessity of a good life ? for i hardly think it possible to contrive a doctrine more effectual for that end , than to tell men that the sacraments of the gospel do free men from that heavy yoke contrition and the love of god. but supposing there were no such foundation for this doctrine in the council of trent , as we see there is would there be no danger to mens salvation , if their confessors generally told then these things , and they knew it to be th● current opinion among them ? is there 〈◊〉 danger of falling into the ditch whe● the blind lead the blind , unless general council expresly allow of it ? 〈◊〉 there no danger by empericks a●● mountebanks , unless the whole co●ledge of physicians approve them ? an● of all sorts of empericks , the worst a●● such casuists and confessors . is ther● no way to magnify the sacerdotal office unless they have a power to trepan soul into eternal flames for want of true repentance ; by making them believe th● priests absolution with bare attritio● will make all even with god ? or 〈◊〉 this doctrine only a decoy to draw great sinners into your nets ? and all this while is your church innocent , which at least sees and will not reform these things ? in a. d. . . of september and . may , . the congregation of the inquisition at rome under alexander . . took upon them to censure . several propositions of the late casuists , as scandalous and pernicious to the souls of men , but not one of them relates to this doctrine of repentance , although the jansenists in france had complained of it . whence could this arise but from looking on it as the doctrine of their church ? indeed i find that on may . . the pope caused a decree to be published straitly forbidding all persons in their debates about attrition , to condemn each other ; but it is worth our while to understand , what this controversie was , viz. whether bare attrition doth require an act of the love of god ; and although the negative be there said to be the more common opinion , yet the pope would not have the others that affirmed it to be censured . but not the least word against the sufficiency of bare attrition . are any of the books censured which assert this doctrine ? nay , they are published with great approbations . are any of the defenders of it discountenanced ? nay , they are persons in the highest esteem , dignity , and authority among them . are any cautions given to confessors to beware of these doctrines ? nay , these very books are purposely written and approved for their instruction and use . and if their church be innocent after all this , so was the iewish church in our saviours time ; for the corruptions that were then among them had no decree of the sanhedrin , that i find , for them ; it was only their schoolmen and casuists , the scribes and pharisees which introduced them . and yet our saviour thought mens souls in danger , when he bid them beware of the leaven of the pharisees . i confess when we debate the causes of separation from their communion , we think it then reasonable to alledge no more , than what they impose on all to believe and practice ( and we have enough of all conscience in that kind without going farther ) but when we represent the hazard of salvation to particular persons , we may then justly charge them with the pernicious doctrines and practices which are received and allowed among them , although not decreed by the church in councils . for otherwise it would be just , as if one should say to a man , that asked him , whether he might safely travel through such a country ? yes , without doubt you may , for although there be abundance of thieves and high-waymen , yet the prince or the state never approved them , or gave them licence to rob travellers . do you think any man would venture his person or his purse , on no better security ? yet such security as this , if it were true is all that such moderate men as o. n. or his brethren can give as to the roman church ; for they dare not deny the bad consequence of the doctrines and practices charged upon them , but only say , the church hath not decreed them . so much i thought necessary to say to this newest and most plausible pretence , which is made use of by the best advocates for the roman church . and now farewel to moderation ; for the two next which appeared on the stage against me , were two jesuits ; the one sent over a book , which if we look only at the bulk and thickness was a very substantial one , called by an odd antiphrasis , reason and religion : i have endeavoured to draw off all the spirit i could find in it , in the following discourses , but i am forced to leave a vast quantity of phlegm and caput mortuum behind . i shall say no more of him here , having occasion to speak so much of him in the discourses about the principles of faith , which will in a little time be ready to appear . the other is the stout defender of lgnatius loyola and the whole order of jesuits ; what , one man undertake to defend the jesuits as to their principles and practices ! and that in this age , which so well understands their maxims and conduct ! and in england too , where those of other orders and the secular priests love them so dearly ! but nothing is too brave or difficult , for a jesuit to attempt , however he comes off in it . as to ignatius loyola , i will come to terms with him ; if what he confesses as to his ignorant zeal , pious simplicity , frequent visions and extasies , extravagant preaching , unmannerly contempt of superiours do not prove him a fanatick , i am content to let him go . but what if ignatius himself being grown old , did suspect such frequent extasies and visions for illusions ? i desire him to look ribadineira , in his larger life to that purpose . but this matter of fanaticism must be referred to another place . i shall now only give a tast of the jesuits excellent way of defending the principles destructive to government which i charged his order with . the first was , that government was so originally in the people , that they by their representatives may call their soveraign to an account and alter the form of government . now mark this answer . this principle ( whatsoever truth it may have in speculation ) is by no means to be preached to the people , who are apt enough of themselves to stretch cases and pick quarrels with their best governours , yet was it taught many ages before the jesuits were so much as thought of . welfare the man for his plain-dealing ; the doctrine it seems is true enough , but the people are not fit to be trusted with the management of it , no , not in their places and callings ; no , no , let the jesuits alone with these things , they know just the very nick of time , when to be iudges and executioners too . the next principle is , the popes power of deposing princes , to which he again answers roundly . you are then to know , sir , that the doctrine was long ago taught by almost all orders and professions , seculars , regulars , divines , lawyers , before the jesuits were in being . a very catholick doctrine it seems it is ! what a stirr do other people make with mincing this matter , i know not how ; give me a man that speaks out , and lets princes understand what their general doctrine is in this matter , lest they may possibly be deceived , as though it were only the bold assertion of some few persons among them . what wonder then saith he , if bellarmin and . or . more jesuits were carried away with such a torrent of doctors who went before them ? nay , in my opinion the only wonder is , how any persons among them dare think otherwise , this doctrin having as he tells us , so catholick a consent to the truth of it . but in earnest sir , is the doctrine true , or false nay , sir , i beseech you to excuse me in that : for as he saith , afterwards about the popes power 〈◊〉 absolving subjects , i beg leave to wave such curious controversie● : what , a jesuit beg leave to wave curious controversies ! what is become 〈◊〉 all their vast tomes of scholastical an● casuistical divinity ? are no curious controversies handled in them ? an● were you bred up among them and yet ha●● controversies meerly because curious ▪ no , no , we understand you better than so that is only a curious controversies with you which endangers your safety , if you speak out , for it is a needless kind of curiosity for a man to betray himself . here in these practical countries it is sometimes dangerous speaking truth in their sense ; but at such a speculative place as rome is , there those may be wholesome and catholick truths , which ●ere are but niceties and curiosities . but doth he not say , the jesuits have solemnly renounced the doctrine ? yes , but have a care how far you believe him : we poor simple islanders might understand by this , that they had declared it to be false and pernicious . there is no such matter i will assure you , but upon the stirrs in france they renounced the publishing it , they renounced it as they were in france , but thought it good doctrine at rome : they are forbidden to treat any more of it , because of the odiousness of it to princes , and that is all the renouncing they ever meant . the third principle is , the lawfulness of killing kings , as to which , he saith , he cannot name the person that ever taught it in those terms : a good reason for that , because when they would have them killed they call them tyrants . and so grants dominicus soto and marian have asserted it , he might have namse more if he had pleased . i could not des● a more pleasant task than to pursue 〈◊〉 through the remainder of his discourse wherein he undertakes to vindicate the jesuits practices , but these have been much exposed by men of their own region , that i may spare my pains in th● preface ; and we may easily guess h● hard he was put to it , when he mak● the letter of the bishop of angelopol to be forged at port-royal by the ja● senists . and thus he hath shifted 〈◊〉 fault from the indies to europe , 〈◊〉 to vindicate some papists there fre● idolatry , he charges others here with forge● ▪ and ●et to this as a full answer , the 〈◊〉 ans●erer of the seasonable discour● doth referr us . and out of his admiral learning and skill in history desires 〈◊〉 adversary , for his satisfaction that the can be no danger of resuming abby lan● of popery should return , to go into germany where there are so many papist and protestant princes , noble men and gentlemen , that have ( especially since the treaty at munster ) either bishopricks , abbeys or the like confirmed to them by the pope . how ! confirmed to them by the pope ! what will not these men dare to say ? i perceive ignorance serves them for other purposes than meerly to be the mother of devotion . if at least this worthy author could be ignorant of so notorious a thing as pope innocents bull published on purpose to null the treaty at munster , as prejudicial to the catholick religion , to the apostolical see , to churches and other holy places and persons and ecclesiastical rights . in the body of the bull he saith , that his nuncio there ( who was afterwards pope alexander the seveth ) did protest against these articles , as void , null , unjust , and agreed upon by persons that had no power , and that they were to be so looked on by all . but the pope did not think this sufficient , but declares all those articles that related to liberty of religion , church-lands , or any ecclesiastical rights , or brought any the least prejudice to them or might be thought or pretended so to do , to be null , void , invalid , unjust , damned , reprobate , vain , and without any force or power , and that they shall remain so for ever ; and that no person , though never so much sworn to observe those articles shall be bound by such oath ; no right , title , plea , prescription , shall accrue to any by vertue of them : and therefore out of the plenitude of apostolical power he doth absolutely damn , reprobate , null and cassate all those articles and protests before god of the nullity of them ; and restores all persons and places to their ancient possessions notwithstanding them , with very much more to the same purpose . this was dated at rome apud sanctam mariam majorem sub annulo piscatoris die novemb. and solemnly published there the third of jan. . in the eighth year of his pontificat . call you this , sir , the popes confirming them ! is it credible that he who in the beginning of his answer had charged the late protestant books , ( which he most ingeniously calls libels ) to be crammed with nothing else but what we know to be false , should within a few pages have the confidence to affirm in the face of the world so notorious an untruth ? but i leave this ingenious author , to be chastised for this and other his extravagancies , by his worthy adversary , and return to my own . after all these unsuccessful attempts at last the knight himself resolves to encounter the dragon ; and accordingly he buckles on his armour , mounts his stead , and , according to all ancient and modern pictures of the combat , directs his lance into the very mouth of it ; wisely considering , if the head were mortally wounded , the whole body would fall to the ground . after him at a convenient distance follows his squire i. s. who had a particular spight at the dragons tayl , and without fear or wit falls unmercifully upon it , and in his own opinion , hath chopt it into a thousand pieces . but such mischievous creatures whose strength lies scattered in all their parts , do often rise up when they are triumphed over as dead , and give their most deadly wounds , when they are thought to lye gasping for breath . it happened that when t. g's . answer to the first part of my book came out , i was before engaged in the defence of the protestant principles of faith against the guide in controversies and e. w. ( the author of those two learned treatises as t. g. calls them , protestancy without principles , and religion and reason ) part of which being then in the press , i was forced to go through with that , before i could take his book into consideration . and thereupon i resolved to dispatch all those which relate to the principles of faith together ; and then to proceed to the principles of worship in answer to him , which ( god willing ) i intend as soon as the former part is finished . all that i shall take notice of him here , is to represent the ingenuity of his dealing with me in his preface , wherein he charges me with dissenting from the doctrine of the church of england in accusing the church of rome of idolatry . and by this one instance i desire the reader to judge what candour and sincerity he is to expect in his book . for the sense of the church of england i appealed to the book of homilies : not to any doubtful , or general or single passage therein , but to the design of one of the largest and most elaborat● homilies in the whole book ; consisting of three several parts , the last of which i● said not to be meerly for the people but for the instruction of those who were t● teach them . the design of that last part is thus set down . . that popish images and the idols of the gentils are all one concerning themselves . . that they have been and be worshipped in our time in like form and manner as were the idols of the gentils . and for that idolatry standeth chiefly in the mind , it shall in this part first be proved that our image-maintainers , have had and have the same opinions and judgement of saints whose images they have made and worshipped as the gentils idolaters had of their gods ; and afterwards shall be declared that our image-maintainers and worshippers have used and use the same outward rites , and manner of honouring , and worshipping their images , as the gentils did use before their idols , and that therefore they commit idolatry , as well inwardly as outwardly , as did the wicked gentils idolaters ; and this that homily is intended for the proof of : which it doth very fully . but , saith t. g. , why did i not appeal for the sense of our church to the . articles ? as though the approbation of the book of homilies were not one of them , viz the . the second book of homilies the several titles whereof we have joyned under this article ( among which titles the second is this of the peril of idolatry ) doth contain a godly and wholesome doctrine and necessary for these times . which articles were not only allowed and approved by the queen , but confirmed by the subscription of the hand of the arch-bishop and bishops of the upper house , and by the subscription of the whole clergy in the nether house of convocation a. d. . now i desire t. g. to resolve me whether men of any common understanding would have subscribed to this book of homilies in this manner , if they had believed the main doctrine and design of one of them had been false and pernicious ? as they must have done if they had thought the practice of the roman church to be free from idolatry . i will put th● case that any of the bishops then had thought the charge of idolatry had been unjust , and that it had subverted the foundation of ecclesiastical authority , that there could have been no church , or right ordination if the roman church had been guilty of idolatry ; would they have inserted this into the articles , when it was in their power to have left it out ? and that the homilies contained a wholesome and godly doctrine , which in their consciences they believed to be false and pernicious ? i might as well think that the council of trent would have allowed calvins institutions , as containing a wholesome and godly doctrine ; as that men so perswaded would have allowed it the homily against the peril of idolatry . and how is it possible to understand the sense of our church better , than by such publick and authentick acts of it , which all persons who are in any place of trust in the church must subscribe , and d●clare their approbation of them ? this homily hath still continued the same , the article the very same , and if so they must acknowledge this hath been , and is to this day the sense of our church . but saith t. c. the subscribing the book of homilies , as containing a godly and wholesome doctrine , doth not evince that every particular doctrine contained in it is such . be it so : but i hope it doth evince that the subscribers did not think the main doctrine of any one homily to be false ? surely there is a great deal of difference between some particular passages and expressions in these homilies , and that which is the main design and foundation of any one of them . but in this case we are to observe , that they who deny the church of rome to be guilty of idolatry , do not only look on the charge as false , but as of dangerous consequence ; and therefore although men may subscribe to a book in general as containing wholesome and godly doctrine , though they be not so certain of the truth of every passage in it , yet they can never do it with a good conscience if they believe any great and considerable part of the doctrine therein contained to be false and dangerous . such a subscription would be as apparently shuffling and dishonest as is the evasion of this testimony which t. g. makes use of for want of a better . i shall in the next place shew the current doctrine of the church ever since the reformation to have been agreeable to this homily of the peril of idolatry . in the injunctions published by k. edward vi. a. d. . the extirpation of popery is called the suppression of idolatry and superstition . in the second year of edward vi. arch-bishop cranmer published his articles of visitation , whereof the . and the last are about the taking away images , pictures , and all other monuments of feigned miracles , pilgrimages , idolatry and superstition . in the second liturgy by edward vi. after the communion , was a rubrick annexed , in which the adoration of the host is expresly called idolatry . this is that very rubrick , of which t. g. , according to his excellent skill in the offices of our church , saith it is not yet more then a dozen years since it was inserted into the communion book ; which he might have found above a . years before in the book of edward vi. in the injunctions of queen elizabeth , a. d. . art. . and . all shrines , tables , pictures , &c. are commanded to be taken away and destroyed and all other monuments of feigned miracles , idolatry and superstition . and that 〈◊〉 may not think it was only a sudden hea● at the first reformation which made the● charge the church of rome with idolatry , long after in a form of thanksgiving in the . of queen elizabeth a. d. . popery is called that idolatrous religion : as it was in the beginning of her reign in the excellen● apology for the church of england and i desire him , or any one else , 〈◊〉 produce any one bishop or divine of not● in the church of england , who during all h●r reign did deny the church of rome to be guilty of idolatry . but why then was it not inserted in the . articles ? in which t. g. observes , the adoration of images is not rejected as idolatry , but only as a fond thing , vainly invented , nor as repugnant to the plain words of scripture , but as being rather repugnant to the word of god , which plainly gives us to understand , that they had done their endeavours to find a command but could not . a most ingenious criticism ! when himself and all others of their divines yield that adoration of images , which our church charges them with , art. . ( viz. not barely worshipping but adoration of images ) to be idolatry and plainly repugnant to scripture . were the composers of our articles so sensless as not to think idolatry repugnant to scripture ; or not to think adoration of images to be idolatry ; or not to think the church of rome guilty of it , when the article saith the romish doctrine concerning worshipping and adoration as well of images as of reliques , & c ? it is not meerly the practice used in the church of rome , but their very doctrine concerning adoration of images which is here charged ; and can any church teach adoration of images and not be guilty of idolatry ? and for his criticism about being rather repugnant , it had been utterly lost if he had looked into the latin articles where the words are , immo verbo dei contradicit ; whereby it appears that rather is not used as a term of diminution , but of a more vehement affirmation . i now come to the exceptions he takes to the particular testimonies i produced of the most eminent bishops and divines of our church , ever since the reformation , who have all concurred in this charge of idolatry . two parts in three he excepts against as incompetent witnesses in the case : how few of the iury would any malefactor allow if such frivolous exceptions might serve his turn ? the two first he excepts against are the two arch-bishops whitgift and abbot as puritanically inclined . but as it unhappily falls out , one of them was never mentioned by me , and the other never till now suspected for a puritan . the abbot i mentioned was not george abbot arch-bishop of canterbury , but robert abbot bishop of salisbury ; and it is the first time we ever heard that a bishop of salisbury was suspended from his metropolitical jurisdiction . but they of the church of rome have a faculty of doing greater wonders with five words , than changing a bishop into an arch-bishop . i hope he understands the church he is of , better than that he hath left , or else we are like to have a sad account of history from him . but why i beseech you , after all his zeal and indefatigable pains for the church of england , must arch-bishop whitgift be thrown away to the puritans ? if he had proved t. c. at the same time arch-bishop of canterbury , there might have been some reason to suspect whitgift to have been of the puritan side ; for all the world know they were grea● adversaries on that very account of th● puritan cause . but was not whitgi●● for the lambeth articles ? and wh● then ? are the dominicans puritans and no papists ? if your church may hav● liberty not to determin those nice points why may not ours ? and so both parties remain of our church , as long as they contradict no received articles among us . but the lambeth-articles were neve● intended for any more than as respons● prudentum to silence disputes in the university . and i believe none of the puritan party after that , took arch-bishop whitgift to be a patron of thei● cause . but if these will not serve his turn , 〈◊〉 have others ready , whom for meer sham● he will not say were puritans , or puritanically inclined . and the first of these is an arch-bishop too , and that is arch-bishop bancroft ; and if he be cast out for a puritan , surely there never was any bishop of the church of england . in his sermon preached at pauls cross on john . . he hath these words speaking of the papists . the popish false prophets will suffer the people to try nothing , but do teach them wholly to depend on them ; and to that purpose they have indeed three notable sleights . first they forbid them the reading of the scriptures . and the better to be obeyed therein they will not permit the scriptures to be translated into the vulgar tongue . whereof it came to pass that the people were so easily seduced , and drawn from christ to the pope ; from his merits to the saints , and their own merits ; from his bloody sacrifice , whereby only sins are remitted , to their most dry and fruitless sacrifice ; from the spiritual food of his body and blood , unto a carnal and capernaitical transubstantiation ; from the calling upon his name to an invocation of saints : and from their sure trust and confidence in his death to a vain imagination of the vertue of their masses , pilgrimages , pardons , and i know not what intolerable superstition and idolatry . i hope arch-bishop bancroft may for once pass for no puritan with t. g. but what will he say , if the only persons he produces as most partial of his side , do give in evidence against him ? bishop mountague is the first , whose words are these in the book cited by him . our predecessors and fathers coming late out of popery , living near unto papists and popish times , conversing with them , having been nuzzled and brought up amongst them and knowing that images used to be crept unto , incensed , worshipped , and adored among them , &c. what thinks he , is not this all one as to charge them with idolatry ? and more plainly in his former book , but whatsoever you say , however you qualify the thing with gentle words , we say in your practice you far exceed ; and give them that honour which is latria a part of divine respect and worship . and afterwards saith , the people go to it with downright adoration , and your new schools defend that the same respect is due to the representer , as must be given to the representee . so that the crucifix is to be reverenced with the the self-same honour that christ jesus is . ablasphemy not heard of till thomas aquinas set it on foot . clear these enormities , and others like these , then come and we may talk and soon agree concerning honour and respect unto reliques or images of saints , or christ ; till then we cannot answer it unto our maker , to give his honour unto a creature . his next is pet. heylin ; and now i hope we have at last hit upon a man far enough from being a puritan ; yet this very person gives plain evidence against him . for i● his th . sermon on the tares preached a● white-hall ianuary . . h● hath these words . so it is also in the point of images , first introduced into the church for ornament , history , and imitation . had they staid there it had been well , and no faul● found with them . — but when the schools began to state it , that the same veneration was to be afforded to the type and prototype , then came the doctrine to the growth . when and by whom , and where it was first so stated is not easie to determine , and indeed not necessary . it is enough that we behold it in the fruits . and what fruits think you could it bear , but most gross idolatry , greater than which was never known among the gentils ? witness their praying not before , but to the crucifix , and calling on the very cross , the wooden and material cross , both to increase their righteousness and remit their sins . and for the images of the saints , they that observe with what laborious pilgrimages , magnificent processions , solemn offerings , and in a word , with what affections , prayers , and humble bendings of the body , they have been and are worshipped in the church of rome , might very easily conceive that she was once again relapsed into her ancient paganism . with much more to the same purpose . his only person remaining , is mr. thorndike , a man of excellent learning and great piety , but if we should grant , that he held some thing singular in this matter ; what is that to the constant opinion of our church ? and yet even mr. thorndike himself in a paper sent by him 〈◊〉 some whom t. g. know's , not long before his death , saith , that , to pray to saints for those things which only god can give ( as all papist do is by the proper sense of the word● down-right idolatry . if they say ▪ their meaning is by a figure only to desire them to procure their requests of god : how dare any christian trust his soul with that church which teaches that which must needs be idolatry in all that understand not the figure ? so that upon the whole matter t. g. cannot produce any on● person of our church that hath clearly an● wholly acquitted the church of rome from the charge of idolatry . it seems then 〈◊〉 church hath been made up of puritans i● t. g's . sense of them . but if these do no● satisfy him what doth he think of the arch-bishop and bishops and clergy of the convocation . a. d. . were 〈◊〉 these puritans too ? and yet in the sevent● canon they have these words . and albeit at the time or reforming this church from that gross superstition of popery , it was carefully provided that all means should be used to root out of the minds of the people , both the inclination thereto and memory thereof ; especially of the idolatry committed in the mass , for which cause all popish altars were demolished , &c. what can more express the sense of our church , than the concurrent opinion of arch-bishops , bishops and clergy of both provinces met in convocation ? when we see they so lately , charged the church of rome with idolatry . let us now consider what exceptions he takes against the other witnesses produced by me . jewel , bilson , davenant , all eminent bishops of our church and of great learning , are cast away at once , as incompetent persons . but why so ? why , saith t. g. they were all excepted against by our late soveraign k. charcles i. in his third paper to henderson . that is a shrewd prejudice indeed to their authority to be rejected by a prince of so excellent a judgement and so cordial a friend to the church of england . but it is good to be sure whether it be so or no. all that he saith of bishop iewel is this , and though i much reverence bishop iewel ' s memory , i never thought him infallible . so then , he must he puritanically inclined ; but whence does that follow ? not surely from the kings reverencing his memory , for that were to reflect upon the king himself ; not from his not thinking him infallible . for i dare say , the king never thought the pope infallible ; must be needs therefore think him a puritan ? surely never man was such a friend to the puritans as this t. g. who without any ground gives them away some of the greatest honours of our church , and ( if the testimony last cited be of any force to prove one a puritan , ) all mankind , and himself too : for i plainly perceive by this preface that he is not infallible . yet for all this we will not let go jewel , no nor bilson , davenant , white , usher , downam , what ever t. g. saith against them . indeed k. charles excepts against bilson for his principles of civil government , but not a word of his disaffection to the church of england : for bishop davenant , the king saith he is none of those to whom he appealed , or would submit unto , and with very good reason , for the king had appealed to the practice of the primitive church , and the universal consent of fathers ; therefore bishop davenant was a puritan . it seems they have been all puritans since the primitive times ; and i hope the church of rome then hath good store of them , for that is far enough from the fathers or the primitive church . but how comes bishop white in for a puritan , being so great a friend of arch-bishop laud ; why , forsooth , heylin reports that for licensing bishop mountagu's appello caesarem , it was said , that white was turned black. and canst thou for thy heart , good reader , expect a more pregnant proof ? it was a notable saying , and it is great pity , the historian did not preserve the memory of the author of it ; but by whom was it said ? that must be supposed by the puritans ; and could none but they be the authors of so witty a saying ? but suppose they were the puritans that said it ? it is plain then , they thought him no sound puritan , for they hold no falling from grace . all then that can be inferred from this witty saying is , that white sunk in his esteem among them by this act. and is it not possible for them to have an esteem for those who are not of their own party ? concerning arch-bishop usher , dr. heylin was known to be too much his enemy , to be allowed to give a character of him : and his name will not want a due veneration as long as learning and piety have any esteem among us . but he is most troubled what to do with six that remain , viz. king james , bishop andrews , arch-bishop laud , isaac casaubon , doct. field , and doct. jackson ; these he could not for shame fasten the name of puritans upon ( as he doth with scorn on bishop downam , reynolds , whitaker , and fulk ; whose testimonies i said to prevent cavils , i need not to produce although they are all capable of sufficient vindication . ) for king james , he saith , that in the place cited by me he saith expresly , that what he condemns is adoring of images , praying to them , and imagining a kind of sanctity in them , all which are detested by catholicks . was ever man put to such miserable shifts ? are not these king james his words . but for worshipping either them , ( reliques ) or images , i must account it damnable idolatry . and doth not king james a little after take off their distinctions and evasions in these words , and they worship ( forsooth ) the images of things in being , and the image of the true god. but scripture forbiddeth to worship the image of any thing that god created . yea the image of god himself is not only expresly forbidden to be worshipped but even to be made . let them therefore that maintain this doctrine , answer it to christ at the latter day , when he shall accuse them of idolatry ; and then i doubt if he will be paid with such nice sophistical distinctions . is all this nothing but to charge them with such practices which they detest ? doth he not mention their doctrine , and their distinctions ? did not king james understand what he said , and what they did ? it is plain he charges them with idolatry in what they did , which was that i brought his testimony for . the like answer he gives to the rest of them , viz. that they charged them , with what they thought they did , but the papists deny that they do any such thing : i. e. in plain terms , they charge them with idolatry , but the papists deny they commit it . and so they do when i charge them with it ; so that t. g. by the very same reason might have acquitted me from charging them with it , and have spared his book . is not this now an admirable way of proving , that they do not charge them with idolatry , because the papists deny they commit it ? who meddles with what they profess they do , or do not ? i was to shew what these persons charged them with . and do any of these excuse them by saying any doctrine of theirs was contrary to these particulars ? do they not expresly set themselves to disprove their distinctions upon which their doctrine is founded ? and shew the vanity of them because their open and allowed practices do plainly contradict them ; and shew that they do give divine honour to images however in words they deny it . but this way of defending them is , as if those whom st. paul charges that they professed that they knew god but in works they denied him , should reply to him , how can we deny him in our works , since we profess him in our words ? iust so saith t. g. how can they be charged with idolatry , since they profess to do no such thing ? a●though such persons , as those i mentioned , did not understand both what the papists said for themselves and what they did notwithstanding . and now i joy● with t. g. in desiring the reader may be judge between us , whether i have betrayed my trust in pretending to defend the church of england ; and whether in charging the church of rome with idolatry i have contradicted the sense of it ? since i have made it appear that her most true and genuin sons , the most remote from all suspicion of disaffection to her , or inclination to puritanism , have concurred in the same charge which i undertook to make good . but there is one blow yet remaining in his preface , which i must endeavour to ward off , otherwise it will be a terrible one to the church of england ; for by this charge of idolatry , he makes me to subvert the very foundation of ecclesiastical authority in it . this it is to charge home . for , saith he , it being a received maxime and not being denyable by any man of common sense , that no man can give to another that which he hath not himself , it lies open to the conscience of every man , that if the church of rome be guilty of heresie , much more if guilty of idolatry , it falls under the apostles excommunication . ( gal. . . ) and so remains deprived of the lawful authority to use and exercise the power of orders ; and consequently the authority of governing , preaching and administring the sacraments , which those of the church of england challenge to themselves , as deriv'd from the church of rome , can be no true and lawful jurisdiction , but usurped and anti-christian . and so farewel to the church of england , if the church of rome were not more kind in this case than t. g. is . hitherto we have seen his skill in the affairs of our church , and now we shall see just as much in the doctrine of his own . for doth not the council of trent make orders a sacrament ? and one of those which doth imprint an indelible character ? and doth not that council pronounce an anathema against those , that denyed the validity of the sacrament administred by one in mortal sin , in case he observes the essentials of it ▪ how then can t. g ▪ ●scape excommunication from his own church , that denies the validity of the sacrament of orders in case of the sin of the givers of it ? if the validity of the sacrament doth not d●pend on the worth or quality of the ministers of it but upon the essentials and the institution of christ , how can the fault of the persons hinder the conveyance of that authority , which they are only the bare instruments to convey ? doth t. g. think so in all other sacraments ? as in case of baptism ; that supposing the ministers of it have been guilty of heresie or idolatry , the sacrament loses its effect ? well fare then the donatists , whose opinion this was , and in whom it hath been condemned by the church . if it be not so in other sacraments how comes it to be thus in orders ? which he must acknowledge , to be as much a sacrament as baptism ; or else he must renounce the council of trent . and it is observable , that the very argument used by the donatists and others , was the same which t. g. here produces , viz. his common maxim of reason , and not denyable by any man of common sense that no man can give to another , that which he hath not himself ; to which this answer was given , that the instrument was not the giver , but the first institutor , and in case the minister keep to the institution , the grace of the sacrament may be conveyed by him though he hath it not himself . but , methinks , if t. g. had forgotten the doctrine of the council of trent , he might have looked into some one or other of their own authors to have informed himself better of their doctrine in this matter . vasquez hath a chapter on purpose to prove that an heretical , excommunicated , suspended bishop is a sufficient minister of ordination ; and saith that all the schoolmen and summists are agreed in it , and that there can be no doubt at all made of it . and did none of these men understand the principle that is undenyable by any man of common sense ? what a back-blow is this to those of his own church ? for vasquez saith this is determined as a matter of faith among them , that the validity of a sacrament doth not depend on the probity or faith of the minister . and he denies it to be in the power of the church to hinder the effect of ordination in an excommunicated bishop , because it cannot blot out his character , or take away his power . estius saith , that no crime how great soever , whether haeresie , schism , or apostasie , no censure how heavy soever , as excommunication , can hinder the validity of ordination by a bishop , although it be of those who are not subject to his jurisdiction , in case he observes the lawful rites of ordination as to the essence of the sacrament ; for this reason , because ordination belongs to the power of order , which being once received can never be lost ; but those things which belong to jurisdiction , as absolution and excommunication , have no effect , where that jurisdiction is taken away . and this doctrine they all ground upon st augustins discourse against the donatists ; and upon the practice of the church at that time which did receive those who were ordained among the donatists , without scrupling their orders ; as not only appears by the testimony of st. augustin but by the decree of an african council to that purpose ; and that not only at first , but when the schism was grown inveterate . and yet francis hallier a late doctor of the sorbon , tells us , that the donatists were not barely schismaticks , but they were adjudged hereticks , for asserting that the efficacy of sacraments did depend upon the quality of the persons , and not upon the merits of christ. the same author vehemently disputes against those , who assert that the power of order can be lost by the sin of the person , and shews that doctrine hath been condemned by several councils before that of trent ; as of arles , of orleans and constance : and undertakes to answer all the instances brought from antiquity to the contrary ; as either understood of such hereticks , which did not retain the essentials of the sacrament or only implying the fault committed in giving or receiving them at the hands of such persons , but not any invalidity in the sacrament it self . and afterwards he proves that hereticks are capable of ordination . but if these , and many others of their later writers will not satisfy him , i desire him to consult their more ancient authors , thom. aquinas determins that hereticks and those who are cut off from the church , may give orders as well as administer other sacraments , the reason he gives is , that a power in consecration is given to a bishop , which can never be taken from him , although he will not allow it to be called a character . for several , especially of the ancient schoolmen would not have consecration to imprint a new character ; but they were never able to give an intelligible account of what they meant by the character as distinct from that sacramental power which was conveyed by consecration and they granted to be indelible as the other was , some making it an extension of the character of priesthood , others a bare extrinsecal denomination added to it ; but however they held it such as could no more be taken away than the character of priesthood . cardinal bonaventure saith , that the validity of sacraments among hereticks , was a question much in dispute among the ancient doctors , but that it hath been determined by st. augustin , that they are valid if they preserve the essentials of them : and in the matter of ordination he saith , that the power of orders , although it be not a distinct character , yet because it is built upon , it can no more be taken away than the character it self : but whatever is founded upon jurisdiction as the power of excommunication and absolution may be taken away . but i need not mention any more particular writers , since morinus acknowledges , that for . years the opinion of the validity of orders conferred by hereticks , hath only obtained in the roman church . before that time , he proves at large that it was more disputable , as appears by the master of the sentences , who accounts it a perplexed and almost insoluble difficulty because of the different opinions of doctors about it ; but afterwards st. augustins opinion was generally received both among the schoolmen and canonists ; and is now become a matter of faith in the roman church at least by consequence , since the decrees of councils . and although morinus will not allow that any decree of their church hath passed in this matter , yet he saith , there hath been so long and so universal a consent of doctors in this point , that it ought to be instead of a law , which they ought not to violate . by this we may judge of the learning and skill of t. g. in the doctrine of his own church . but if he would not look into the controversal writers of their church , yet if he had but searched into the practice of the church either in ancient or modern times he would have been ashamed to have made use of such an argument to overthrow all ecclesiastical authority among us . i grant that in some tumultuous ages of the church , ordinations have been adjudged null through the defaults of the persons , but then it was meerly for breaking the canons of the church ; so it was in the case of formosus , for breaking the canons against the translations of bishops ; in the case of ebbo arch-bishop of rhemes , whose ordinations were nulled by hincmarus and the council of soissons , for not being canonically restored after deposition but upon appeal to the pope they were pronounced valid : in the case of pope constantine for precepitating orders to secure the popedom ; in the famous case of photius , whose ordination was declared null by the opposite faction on the same grounds ; but all these things were done in troublesome times , when one party sought a pretence against the other . but if we regard the more general practice of the church , we shall find when far greater objections than these were made , yet ordinations have been allowed ; although made by hereticks . i shall offer him the fairest terms he can desire , and for the practice of the church referr him to his own dear second council of nice , and the modern practice of the roman church . the question of the validity of ordination by hereticks was at large debated in the first action of the second council of nice , upon the submission of basilius , theodorus , and theodosius , hypatius and others who had been bishops of the opposite party , which john the vicar of the orient there declared to be worse than any former heresie : upon which the question was proposed , whether upon renouncing their heresie they might be received as bishops , and the orders be allowed of those who were ordained by them during their heresie ? hypatius appealed to the custom of the church ; then the canons of councils and writings of the fathers were brought into council : tarasius produced the canon of the council of nice , allowing the ordinations of the cathari , and the imposition of hands there mentioned he understands only for benediction , and not for ordination : and the council of ephesus making no distinction between those ordained by nestorians and others ; ( for therein the force of that third canon must lye which tarasius thought so plain ) from st. basil , allowing those bishops which communicated with isoes or zoius and saturninus ; from the council of ephesus allowing the orders of the messaliani or euchitae ; from the council of chalcedon allowing the bishops upon their repentance , which had joyned with dioscorus : and more particularly , for those which had been ordained by heretical bishops , it was there shewed , that anatolius the president of the fourth council was ordained by dioscorus in the presence of eutyches ; that john bishop of hierusalem after he had renounced the acephalists by whom he was ordained , was received and submitted to as bishop by the orthodox ; that many of those who sat in the sixth council were ordained by sergius , pyrrhus , paulus , and petrus , who were in that council declared to be hereticks ; and for . years together tarasius saith , they had no other ordinations : upon these evidences of the practice of the church , this council of nice declared likewise , that the ordination of heretical bishops was valid . for the modern practice of the church of rome , i appeal to the allowance therein given to the ordinations of the greek church , although the greek church be charged with heresie ; and that ever since the notorious schism in the time of michael cerularius a. d. . in the time of innocent the third some greek clergy-men living in the dioceses of latin bishops , yet received ordination from greek bishops , which made the latin bishops suspend them from the execution of their office , the pope , hearing of it , sends to his legat , wherein he consents to the suspension in case it were done without leave from the latin bishop ; but if leave were obtained he takes off the suspension ; because this custom is allowed in the church ▪ i need not produce more particular instances in this kind , which may be seen at large in morinus ; because in all the attempts of reconciliation in the several councils held to that purpose , as at lyons , and florence , where all the matters in difference were most fully handed , there was never any objection made to the greek ordinations . but most remarkable to this purpose is the bull of clement the seventh containing in it a former bull of leo the tenth , published by leo allatius , by isaacius habertus , and by morinus , wherein their ordinations and other rites and customs are expresly allowed . and to this day saith morinus they are allowed in rome not only to perform other parts of divine service according to their customs in the church of st. athanasius , but to ordain priests after their own manner ; for which they had a bull of urban the eighth . and now i desire t. g. to consider a little his undeniable maxim , that no man can give to another that which he hath not himself , whether he doth in earnest think that his own church is so bereft of all common sense , as not to understand the force of this maxim ? and if it thought it of any weight in this matter , how it could ever approve the ordinations of hereticks , or decree that the sacraments retain their efficacy , where the essentials of them are observed , whatever the faith or manners of the instruments be ? and this was all i intended in this preface ; of the rest of his book , the reader may expect an account as god gives health and opportunity . the contents . preface to the two first answers . p. . a particular examination of the pamphlet entitled doct. stillingfleet against doct. stillingfleet . of the insufficiency of j. w.'s way of answering . p. . no contradiction about the charge of idolatry . p. . a distinct answer to his propositions . p. . in what sense the church of rome is owned by us as a true church . p. . his appendix about idolatry considered . p. . the second contradiction examined . p. . the charge of fanaticism defended . p. . no contradiction in the charge of divisions p. . the conclusion . p. . an answer to the book entitled doct. stillingfleets principles considered . the occasion of annexing those principles . p. . of the notion of infallibility . p. . n. o's concessions . p. . his principles laid down . p. . his exceptions answered . p. . his proofs of infallibility examined . p. . of the arguments from scripture for infallibility . p. . of the argument from tradition for it . p. . of the argument from parity of reason . p. . of the authority of the guides of the church in ten propositions . p. . the case of vigilius and honorius at large discussed p. , . the different case of the separation of dissenters from our church , and our separation from the church of rome . p. . of the means to attain the sense of scripture without an infallible guide . p. . of the necessity of a iudge in controversies . p. . the way used in the primitive church for finding the sense of scripture through several ages of the christian church from the most authentick writers of them . p. . church authority not destroyed by my principles . p. . what authority we allow to governors of the church . p. . the roman churches way of suppressing sects compared with ours . p. . errata . page . line . read the church . p. . l. for and r. that p. . l. ● for here r. wh●re p ▪ l ▪ . r. eutychianism . p. . l. . r. followed . p. . l. . r. patriarchal . p. . l. . for by r. ●e . p. . l. . r. apocalyptic● p. . l. . for boo r. book . p. . marg r. vales. not . ad eusch. p. . 〈◊〉 r. euclid . p. . l. . for he makes this , r. this is made . p. . l. . blot ● . one the. the preface . when i published the late book , which hath so much enraged those of the church of rome against me , i thought i had reason to expect that a just answer should be made to it ; but they have taken an effectual course to undeceive me ; for by this new way i perceive , their utmost ambition is to have something abroad which among themselves may pass for an answer . which put me in mind of what i have heard a great person said , when he had undertaken to manage an ill cause before a publick audience , and one of his friends asked him what he meant by it , trouble not your self , said he , our own side will be sure to believe me . it was surely some such presumption as this , which made the learned authors of these two elaborate pamphlets to appear in such a manner in print , as if it were no great matter what they said , so their people might have this to say , and ( if they can ) believe it too , that my book is answered . if this be all their cause will afford , it deserves rather to be pittied than confuted ; if it will bear more , they are as bad managers of it as their enemies could wish . for however i was threatned before hand that such answers were coming abroad , every line of which would fetch blood ; yet , as cruel as they are when we are under their lash , i found that which they designed for my punishment to give me no small pleasure : and i never had so good an opinion of the mercifulness of their church as when i saw with what feeble hands they chastised me . i had heard so much of their rage , that i expected their greatest strength would be employ'd upon me ; and i could not tell what zamzummims they might hitherto keep in the dark , whose arms were not to be made use of , but upon some special occasion when an adversary was to be dispatch'd all at once and so perfectly subdued as never to appear more . while i was preparing my self for this kind of martyrdome , out come these mighty men of valour , who have beaten nothing that i know of , but the air and themselves ; for they have neither tyed my tongue , nor broke my heart , nor fetched one drop of blood that i can yet find ; all which were things i was told would be done , when these answers came abroad ; which threatnings made so loud a noise , that i heard the report of them not only nearer home , but from very distant persons and places . but lest i should be thought only to despise my adversaries ( which i confess they have given me no small occasion to do ) i shall bestow a particular examination upon what they have offered by way of answer to my book . only i think it reasonable in the first place to take notice of their present way and method of answering , wherein they make use of as many artifices , as they do in gaining proselytes . when we set our selves to answer their books , we endeavour to state the controversie plainly , to examine their proofs , to apply distinct answers to their arguments fairly represented in their own words , and to render the whole discourse as clear and perspicuous as may be , that all persons may be capable of judging on which side the greatest strength and evidence lyes . this is the mighty advantage which a good cause gives us ; we make use of no tricks to deceive men , nor sophistical cavils to confound and perplex things ; we dare appeal to the judgement of any impartial person , who will take the pains to examin the matters in difference between us . but in their late dealings with us , they seek to avoid the main things in dispute , and abhor any methodical proceeding ; one man picks out a sentence here and there to answer , another a page or two together , a third leaps from one thing to another , as if resolv'd to pass by the greatest difficulties ; but he is a man of courage indeed , that dares fall upon the reer , and begin to confute a book at the end of it , so that if he lives long enough , and get heart , he may in time come to the beginning : and if we observe them all , they look for nothing so much as some cleanly way of escape , and if they can but raise such a dust as to fly away without being openly discerned to do so , this they hope those of their own side will be so kind and partial as to call a victory . these are no general accusations , but such as are easie to observe in their dealings with me as to my former book , and that lately published . but to judicious men , all these little arts and shifts are either plain acknowledgements of a baffled cause , or an argument of a weak and unskilful management . if the book it self be a little too troublesome to be medled with , it is best to fall upon the author , and it is a hard case if by false and ridiculous stories , or open calumnies , or at least base and ugly insinuations , they cannot diminish his reputation ; and then they hope the book will sink with its author . but we are not ignorant whose cause is wont to be managed by such devices as these are , and from whom they have learnt this method of confuting adversaries . as for all their railing accusations against me ; i shall not so much as desire god to rebuke them , but only pray that he would pardon them ; and if i must thank them for any thing , it is for giving me the occasion for exercising so great a charity . i have learnt of him who when he was reviled , reviled not again , not only to forbear reproaching them in the same manner , but to return them good for evil , and to pray for them while they calumniate me . i have so much the less reason to wonder that my book should be charged by them with no less than blasphemy , since the author of our religion himself was so , and suffered under that accusation . but wherein i pray doth this blasphemy lye ? have i uttered any thing that tends to the reproach of god or true religion ? have i the least word which malice it self can stretch to the dishonour of iesus christ , the prophets and apostles , or the holy scriptures written by divine inspiration ? no ; i challenge the boldest of them , and most malicious , to produce any thing i ever said or writ that doth but seem to look that way . have i made the practice of true devotion ridiculous , and the real expressions of piety the subject of scorn and derision ? no , so far from it , that it was only a just zeal for the honour and practise of true religion made me willing to lay open the ridiculous fanaticisms of some pretended saints in the roman church . and must they be allowed to charge fanaticism on us , and think it far from blasphemy to represent the enthusiastick follies of the sectaries among us ; and when they are guilty of the very same , or greater , may not we shew their unjustice and partiality , without being accused of blasphemy ? but some of these are canonized saints , as s. brigitt , s. catharine , s. francis , and s. ignatius ; which is so far from making the cause of their church better , that to my understanding it makes it much worse . for although fanaticism be disowned by our church , it seems it is not barely countenanced and allowed in the church of rome , but canonized and adored . that which i insist upon , is this ; either we have no fanaticks , or theirs are so ; for by the very same rule that ours are so , theirs must be too ; for our fanaticks do pretend as high to the spirit and divine revelation as any of theirs ; only there is this remarkable difference between their fanaticks and ours , that ours are among us but not of us , but theirs are both . now if any one who pretends to inspiration and enthusiasm cannot be charged with fanaticism without blasphemy , we must be exposed to all follies and contradictions imaginable ; and to what purpose are we bid to try the spirits whether they be of god or no , i. e. whether their pretence to divine revelation be true or false ? if there may be false pretences to inspiration , we are to examine the grounds of them , and to judge accordingly ; and all false pretenders to inspiration , let them be canonized by whom they will , are the highest sort of fanaticks ; and the greater honour is given them , the greater dishonour it is to the christian religion . but these things shall be more largely discussed in their proper place : i now only take notice of the injustice of their calumny with which they have made so much noise among injudicious people : and i should not have been so much concerned about it , had i not found suggestions to the same purpose in the authors of the two pamphlets . the one of them very kindly makes no difference between lucian , porphyrius and me , but only some interest which doth byass me another way ; and verily believes , good man , that were it not for that , i could flurt with as much piquancy and railery at christian religion , as i do at the roman . in which base suggestion there is no colour of truth , but only that he very honestly distinguisheth the christian , religion and the roman from each other ; as indeed they are in many things as different from each other as truth from falshood , wisdom from folly , and true piety from gross superstition . if he had called me an atheist in plain terms , the grossness of the calumny might have abated the force of it ; but there is no such way to do a man mischief , as by fly insinuations and shrewd suggestions introduced with i verily believe , and expressed with some gravity and zeal . but you who are so good at resolving faith , what is this verily believe of yours founded upon ? have you the authority of your church for it ? have you any evidence of reason ? or rather , have you it by some vision or revelation made by some of those saints , whose fanaticism is exposed ? or do you verily believe it , as you verily believe many other things , for no reason in the world ? if i should tell you i have made it my business to assert the truth of the scriptures , and christian religion therein contained , in a large discourse several years since published ; such is your charity , that you would tell me , so did vaninus write for providence , when he denyed a deity . if i should make large apologies for my innocency , and publish a confession of my faith , with protestations that no interest in the world could remove me from it ; you might tell me , where there is no guilt what need so much ado ? in plain terms , i know but one way to satisfie such as you are , but i will keep from it as long as i can , and that is to go to rome and be burnt for my faith ; for that is the kindness there shewed to those who contend for the purity of the christian religion against the corruptions of the roman . but such calumnies as these , as they are not fit to be passed by , so are they too gross to need any further answer . i shall however declare my mind freely to you ; if i had no other notion of the christian doctrine , than what i have from the doctrines of your church as contrary to ours ; no other measures of christian piety than from your mystical theology ; no better way to worship god than what is practised among you ; no greater certainty of inspiration from god than of the visions and revelations of your late saints ; no other miracles to confirm the christian doctrine than what are wrought by your images and saints , i should sooner choose to be a philosopher , than a christian upon those terms . and i verily believe ( to answer yours with another ) that the frauds and impostures of the roman church have made more atheists in christendom , than any one cause whatsoever besides : for when men resolve all their faith into the testimony of a church whose frauds are so manifest , and confessed by your best writers , such as melchior canus , and ludov. vives ; what can they who know no better , but suspect the inspirations and miracles of former ages , who see such false pretences to them so much magnified , and the fanatick pretenders canonized on that account ? and i am so far from thinking it any disservice to the christian religion to expose these fanaticisms , that i again verily believe that christianity will never obtain as it ought to do among men , till all those hypocritical cheats be yet more laid open to the view of the world ; which if any one have but the courage and patience to undertake , it would be as great , and a much more useful labour than the cleansing of the augean stable . this is not to make sport and recreation for the atheist and debauched , nor to give occasion to such persons to turn the inspirations of holy-scripture into matter of drollery and buffonry , as the author of the second pamphlet tragically declaims ; any more than our saviours unmasking the hypocrisie of the scribes and pharisees was the destroying the law of moses ; or the discovery of cheats and impostors doth give occasion to suspect the honesty of all mankind : nay so far is it from that , that we think the separating of fanaticism from true inspiration to be one of the best services that can be done to the christian religion , which otherwise is in danger of being despised or rejected by the considerate part of mankind . but i would fain know of these men , whether they do in earnest make no difference between the writings of such as mother iuliana and the books of scripture ; between the revelations of s. brigitt , s. catharine , &c. and those of the prophets ; between the actions of s. francis and ignatius loyola and those of the apostles ? if they do not , i know who they are that expose our religion to purpose ; if they do make a difference , how can the representing their visions and practices reflect dishonour upon the other , so infinitely above them , so much more certainly conveyed down to us with the consent of the whole christian world ? thus much may here suffice to represent the arts our adversaries are driven to , to defend themselves ; i cannot blame them that they would engage religion on their side , but so have all fanaticks in the world as well as they ; and i cannot for my heart see , but this heavy charge of blasphemy and undermining religion does as justly lye on them , who deride the fanaticks among us , as on those who have discovered the fanaticism of the church of rome . an examination of the pamphlet , entituled , dr. stillingfleet against dr. stillingfleet . having thus far laid open their present way of dealing with their adversaries , i now come to a particular consideration of these two pamphlets ; and begin with that called dr. stillingfleet against dr. stillingfleet , &c. the author of which is to be commended for so noble an enterprise ( which few of the champions of former ages could accomplish ) viz. to make his adversary fall by his own sword . but the mischief of it is , these romantick knights do hurt no where but in paper and their own imagination . but i forget his grave admonition , that i would treat these matters seriously , and lay aside drollery . to be then as grave as he can desire , there are these two things which i design to prov●● against him . . that on supposition i di●● contradict my self , in the way he insists upo●n it , that were no sufficient answer to my book . . that i am far enough from contradicting my self in any one of the things which 〈◊〉 insists upon . . supposing what he contends for were true , yet my book remains unanswered ; the design of which was to shew that no man can joyn in the communion of the roman church without great hazard of his salvation . if i had any where said the contrary , this indeed would have made it evident that i had contradicted my self . but what then ? doth the force of all the arguments used by me in this last discourse fall to the ground , because i was formerly of another opinion ? let me ask these revolters from the church of england one question ; whether they do not now more plainly contradict themselves as to their former opinions , than they can pretend that i have ever done ? i desire to know , whether this makes all their present arguments for the roman church of no force ? if they think their present reasons ought to be answered whatever contrary opinion they had before ; why , on supposition i had contradicted in a a former book what i say in this , must this render all that i have said , or can hereafter say in this matter , invalid ? doth the strength of all lye upon my bare affirming or denying ? was it ever true because i said it ? if not , how comes it to be untrue now , because i deny it ? i do not remember i was ever so vain , to make use of my own authority to prove a thing to be true , because i believed it ; and if i had , the world is not so vain to believe a man one jot the sooner for it . if my authority in saying or denying be of no importance to the truth of the thing , then he may prove that i contradict my self , and yet all the arguments of my book be as strong as ever . i do not desire any one to follow my opinion because it is mine , but i offer reason and authority for the proof of what i say ; if those be good in themselves , they do not therefore cease to be so , because they are , or seem to he inconsistent with what i have said elsewhere . so that self-contradiction being proved , overthrows not the reason of the thing , but the authority of the person ; and where things depend meerly upon authority , it is a good argument , and no where else . if a witness in a court contradicts himself , his testimony signifies nothing ; because there is nothing else but his authority that makes his testimony valid ; but if a lawyer at the bar chance to speak inconsistently , if afterwards he speaks plain and evident reason , does that take off the force of it , because he said something before which contradicted that plain reason ? if the pope , or those who pretend to be infallible , contradict themselves , that sufficiently overthrows their pretence of infallibility ; for he that changeth his mind , must be deceived once ; but for us fallible mortals , if we once hit upon reason and truth , and manage the evidence of it clearly , that reason doth not lose its former evidence , because the same persons may afterwards oppose it . suppose i should be able to prove that bellarmine in his recognitions contradicts what he had said in his former books ; doth this presently make all his arguments useless , and him uncapable of ever appearing in controversie more ? doth this make all his authorities false and his reasons unconcluding ? doth it hence follow that he spake no where consistently , because once or twice , or perhaps as often as his neighbours , he contradicted himself ? but my grave adversary , i. w. imagines that we writers of controversies are like witnesses in chancery , and are bound to make affidavits before the masters of this court of controversie ; and that whatever we say is to be taken as upon our oath ; this indeed would be an excellent way of bringing controversies to an issue , if we were to be sworn whether such a thing as transubstantiation were true or false ; and i cannot tell whether this , or laying wagers , or the popes infallibility be the best way to end such controversies ; for any one of them would do it , if people could but agree about it . but now my adversary says , that if a man once contradict himself he is to be looked on as a perjured person , and whatever he saith , his word is not to be taken . this he not only begins with , but very triumphantly concludes with it in these words , and this alone may suffice to annul ▪ whatever he has hitherto , or shall hereafter object against us ; for a witness , who has been once palpably conuinced to have forsworn or contradicted himself in matters of moment , besides the condign punishment he is lyable unto , he does vacate all evidences produced by him , against his adversary , and deserves never more to be heard against him in any tribunal . i see now what it is they would be at , no less than perpetual silence and being set in the pillory with that pamphlet on my forehead dr. still . against dr. still . for being guilty of contradicting my self , would satisfie i. w. and his friends ; this i suppose was the meaning of stopping my mouth for ever , when this answer was to come out . but now i perceive it is so dangerous a thing , i had best stand upon my defence , and utterly deny that i have contradicted my self in any thing , in which i. w. hath charged me . . to make it then out that this is a groundless charge , i must go through the several particulars insisted on . the first is in the charge of idolatry ; but how do i contradict my self about this ? had i vindicated the church of rome from idolatry in my defence of arch-bishop laud , this had been indeed to contradict my self : but this is not so much as pretended ; and if it were , nothing could be more easily confuted ; for in that very book , as it falls out very happily , there is a discourse to the same purpose , proving the church of rome guilty of idolatry , in invocation of saints and the worship of images , and that the heathen , in the worship of inferiour deities and images , might be excused on the same grounds that those of the church of rome do excuse themselves . here is then no appearance of a contradiction in terms ; and it is only pretended to be by consequence , viz. from yielding that the church of rome and we do not differ in fundamental points , and that the church of rome is therefore a true church ; from whence he inferrs , that it cannot be guilty of idolatry : because to teach that , would be a fundamental errour , and inconsistent with the being of a true church : and therefore to charge the church of rome with idolatry , and to allow it to be a true church is a contradiction . this is the substance of what he saith upon this head : to which i shall answer by shewing , . that this way of answering is very disingenuous . . that it is sophistical , and proves not the thing which he intends . . that it is a disingenuous way ; because he barely opposes a judgement of charity concerning their church , to a judgement of reason concerning the nature of actions , without at all examining the force of those reasons which are produced in the book he pretends to answer . can i. w. imagine , that any one who enquires into the safest way for his salvation , and hears the church of rome charged with idolatry in her worship , by arguments drawn from the plain law of god , the common sense of mankind , the repugnancy of their way of worship to the conceptions we ought to have of the divine nature , the consent of the ancient christian church , the parity of the case in many respects with the heathen idolaters , should presently conclude , that all these arguments are of no force , meerly because the person who made use of them , had upon another occasion judged so charitably of that church , as to suppose it still to retain the essentials of a true church ? i will put a case paralled to this ; suppose one of the church of iudah should have call'd the church of israel in the time of ieroboam a true church , because they acknowledged the true god , and did believe an agreement in that common acknowledgement to be sufficient to preserve the essentials of a church among them ; and afterwards the same person should go about to convince the ten tribes of their idolatry in worshipping god , by the calves of dan and bethel : would this be thought a sufficient way of answering him , to say , that he contradicted himself , by granting them a true church and yet charging them with idolatry ? whereas the only true consequence would be , that he thought some kind of idolatry consistent with the being of a church . might not such a person justly say , that they made a very ill use of his charity , when he supposed only that kind of idolatry which implyes more gods than one , to unchurch a people ; but however , those persons were more concerned to vindicate themselves from idolatry of any kind , than he was to defend his charitable opinion of them ; and if they could prove to him , that this inferiour sort of idolatry does unchurch them as well as the grosser , the consequence of it would be that his charity must be so much the less , but their danger would be the same . this is just our case with the church of rome ; we acknowledge that they still retain the fundamental articles of the christian faith , that there is no dispute between them and us about the true god and his son iesus christ , as to his death , resurrection , glory , and being the proper object of divine worship ; we yield that they have true baptism among them , in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ; and we looking upon these as the essentials of a true church , do upon that account own that church to be so : but then we charge the roman church , with gross corrupting that worship which is proper to the divine nature , by her worship of images , adoration of the host , and invocation of saints ; which being done , not in express terms against the worship of the true god , but by consequence , we do not think this doth destroy the being of a church among them ; although it makes the salvation of persons in her communion extreamly hazardous : and after we have gone about to prove this by many and weighty arguments , is it reasonable for any one to tell us that we contradict our selves , and therefore our arguments do signifie nothing ? whereas in truth , here is no appearance of a contradiction to that which is our own sense in this matter . for what shadow of a contradiction is it , to say , that the roman church is a true church , and yet is guilty of idolatry ; supposing that we believe some sort of idolatry which is very sinful , not to be yet of so high a nature as to unchurch those who practise it ; and we choose the instance of the ten tribes for the ground of this charity . if they can prove that all sorts of idolatry do necessarily destroy the essentials of a church , the consequence is , we must have less charity for them , than we had before ; and such a concession from us doth not shew their guilt to be less , but only our charity to be greater . suppose a man should exceed in his charity towards a person guilty of some grievous faults , and say , he believes he may be a pious man for all this ; but withall severely reproves him for his faults , and tells him the danger he continually runs by such actions ; would it be fair for such a man to answer him , that his reproofs were not to be regarded , because he contradicted himself , for he told him he believed him to be a pious man , and yet upbraided him with those faults which were inconsistent with piety ? what would the consequence of this be to the thing it self ? would this make those faults ever the less , because he judged so charitably of the person notwithstanding his committing them ? but when we allow the church of rome to be a true church , we are far from understanding by that a sound or a good church free from corruptions , which would be the most proper sense to found a contradiction upon , in this matter of idolatry ; but we mean no more by it , than as a man is a true man though he hath the plague upon him ; those which we account the essentials of a church we deny not to it , but withall , we contend that it is over-run with such corruptions in worship , as do mightily endanger the salvation of those who live in the communion of it . . having thus discovered the disingenuity of making so bad a use of our charity against us , i now come to shew how sophistical this way of answering is , by a closer examination of it . first , the starting of a new objection answers no argument , and all that this amounts to is only raising a new difficulty ; whereas he ought in the first place to have answered all the arguments i had brought to prove them guilty of idolatry ; and when he had done this fairly and plainly ( which for some good reasons he had no mind to do ) he might then have insisted on the inconsistency of it with principles owned by me ; but to do this without giving an answer , so much as to any one argument , is a clear evidence of a sophistical and cavilling humour , rather than of any intention to satisfie an inquisitive mind . . the force of this objection lyes in the different sense and meaning of several expressions made use of by him , which being explained , the objection will signifie nothing . for if we rightly understand the notion of idolatry , the manner of teaching it , the sense of fundamental errours and a true church , as it is owned by me , the very appearance of any contradiction vanisheth . i agree in the general , that the true notion of idolatry is , giving the honour due only to god to a meer creature ; and i desire no greater advantage against the church of rome , than from such a concession ; but then we are to understand , that this may be done several ways . . when the worship proper to the true god is given to a false god. . when the true god is acknowledged and worshipped , but the unity of the god-head is denyed , and many false gods are joyned with him in the same worship . in these two sorts of idolatry , i acknowledge that the true god is rejected , either wholly in the first way , or by consequence in the second . but withall i say , that the giving the worship to a creature which is due only to god may be consistent with the acknowledgement of one supream god , and that these ways . . when one supream god is acknowledged , but no difference is put between the external worship of him and creatures . this was the idolatry of the wiser heathen , who did in their consciences acknowledge that there was but one true and supream god , but yet gave the same worship to inferiour deities , that they did to him . these men might have pleaded for themselves , for all that i know , as much to their advantage , as those of the church of rome do against me . . when the worship proper to the true god is given to an image : or the supposing of god to be truly honoured by us , by prostrating our selves before any corporeal representation of him . this likewise the heathen were guilty of . st. paul hath long since told us of some , who profess that they know god , but in works they deny him ; so there may be some who may profess a worship due only to god , but in their actions may contradict it . as suppose a company of rebellious men , should declare over and over that they acknowledge but one soveraign power of this nation , invested in the person of the king ; but yet , should take upon themselves to raise forces , to appoint great officers of state , and require that the very same outward reverence and honour be given to them , which is given to the king himself ; would any man in his sense say , that because these men still declared the supream authority to be in the king , that there was no treason in such actions ? or that those persons contradicted themselves , who allowed that their profession was such as became good subjects , but their actions made them guilty of treason . the same we say of the church of rome ; we confess they own the supream power of the world to be in one true god , and we have no controversie with them about the essential doctrines of religion ( which is , that we mean by their being a true church ) but withal we say , they overthrow what they say in their own practice , they rob god of the honour due only to him , by giving it to angels , and saints , and images and other creatures . and what contradiction now is there in all this , and a church agreeing with us in the object of worship in general , should act contrary to its own profession , by requiring those things to be done , which take away from god that honour which is due only to him , and giving it to creatures ? and this , if i understand it , is all that this first contradiction in the charge of idolatry doth amount to . to appply this now to his own propositions , for the greater clearness and satisfaction of all indifferent persons ▪ his first proposition i agree to , viz. that 't is an article of faith , and a fundamental point of religion , that the honour which is due only to god is not to be given to a meer creature . but i desire it may be taken notice of , that this proposition is sophistically expressed ; for although it be no dispute between us , whether that honour which is due only to god , may be given to a creature , yet it is a very great one , and the foundation of the charge of idolatry , what that honour is which is due only to god : and in case we can prove that they do give to meer creatures any part of that honour which is due to god , it cannot at all excuse them to say , that they acknowledge it to be idolatry to give that honour , which they suppose to be due only to god , to a meer creature . this proposition therefore , though in it self true , is captiously set down , and with an intention only to deceive unwary readers , as will appear by the next proposition . . to teach idolatry is to err against the formentioned article of faith and fundamental point of religion ; i. e. to teach idolatry , is to teach that the honour which is due only to god is to be given to a meer creature . that this is to teach idolatry , no one questions ; but our question is , whether they who do not teach this proposition , may not teach men to do those things , whereby the worship due only to god will be given to a meer creature ? if he can prove , that they who do not in terms declare that they do not dishonour god cannot dishonour him ; if he can demonstrate , that those who do not teach that the honour which is due only to god is to be given to a creature , cannot possibly by any actions of theirs rob him of that honour which is due to him : this will be much more to his purpose than any thing he hath yet said . and this proposition , if he had proceeded as he ought to have done , should not have been a particular affirmative but an universal negative ; for it is not enough to say , that to teach idolatry is to teach that the honour which is due only to god is to be given to a creature , but that no church which doth not teach this can be guilty of idolatry ; for his design being to clear the roman church , his proposition ought to be so framed that all particulars may be comprehended under it . but because he may say , his immediate intention was , not to clear their church from idolatry , but to accuse me of a contradiction , i proceed to the next proposition . . a church that does not err against any article of faith , nor against any fundamental point of religion , does not teach idolatry . this proposition is likewise very sophistical and captious ; for by article of faith and fundamental point of religion is either understood , the main fundamental points of doctrine contained in the apostles creed , and then i affirm , that a church which doth own all the fundamentals of doctrine , may be guilty of idolatry , and teach those things , wherein it lyes ; but if by not erring against any article of faith , be meant , that a church which doth not err at all in matters of religion cannot teach idolatry , the proposition is true , but impertinent . . that the church of rome doth teach veneration of images , adoration of the host , and invocation of saints , is agreed on both sides . . that the roman church does not err against any article of faith or fundamental point of religion ; this being that concession of ours , from whence all the force of his argument is taken , must be explained according to our own sense of it , and not according to that which he puts upon it ; which that it may be better understood , i shall both shew in what sense this concession is made by us , as to the church of rome , and of what force it is in this present debate . for the clearer understanding in what sense it is made by us , we are to consider the occasion of the controversie about fundamentals between us and the church of rome : which ought to be taken from that book to which he referrs . there we find the occasion of it to be , the romanists contending that all points defined by the church are fundamental , or necessary to salvation , on the account of such a definition ; upon this the controversie about fundamentals was managed against them , with a design to prove that all things defined by the church of rome are not fundamental , or necessary to be believed by all persons in order to their salvation , because they were so defined . to this purpose i enquired . . what the grounds are , on which any thing doth become necessary to salvation ? . whether any thing whose matter is not necessary , and is not required by an absolute command in scripture , can by any means whatsoever afterwards become necessary ? . whether the church hath power , by any proposition or definition , to make anything become necessary to salvation , and to be believed as such , which was not so before ? for the first , i proposed two things . . what things are necessary to the salvation of men as such , or considered in their single or private capacities ? . what things are necessary to be owned in order to salvation by christian societies , or as the bonds and conditions of ecclesiastical communion ? for the resolving of this i laid down these three propositions . . that the very being of a church , doth suppose the necessity of what is required to be believed in order to salvation . . whatever church owns those things , which are antecedently necessary to the being of a church , cannot so long cease to be a true church . and here i expresly distinguished between the essentials of a church , and those things which were required to the integrity or soundness of it , among which latter i reckoned the worship of god in the way prescribed by him . . that the union of the catholick church depended upon the agreement of it in things antecedently necessary to its being . from hence i proceeded to shew , that nothing ought to be owned as necessary to salvation by christian societies , but such things which by all those societies are acknowledged antecedently necessary to the being of the catholick church . and here i distinguished between necessary articles of faith , and particular agreements for the churches peace . i did not therefore deny , but that it was in the power of particular churches , to require a subscription to articles of religion , opposite to the errours and abuses which they reformed ; but i denyed it to be in the power of any church to make those things necessary articles of faith , which were not so before . and here it was i shewed the moderation of the church of england above that of rome ; in that our church makes no articles of faith , but such as have the testimony and approbation of the whole christian world of all ages , and are acknowledged to be such by rome it self : but the church of rome imposeth new articles of faith , to be believed as necessary to salvation ; as appears by the bull of pius . this is my plain meaning , which half-witted men have stretched and abused to several ill purposes : but not to wander from my present subject , what is it that i. w. can hence infer to his purpose ? viz. that from hence it follows that the church of rome does not erre against any article of faith , or any point necessary to salvation ; which if it be only meant of those essential points of faith , which i suppose antecedently necessary to the being of a church , i deny it not , but do not see of what use this concession can be to them in the present debate : since in the following discourse i made the ancient creeds of the catholick church the best measure of those things , which were believed to be necessary to salvation : so that the force of the argument comes to this , whatsoever church does embrace the ancient creeds cannot be guilty of idolatry ; but the church of rome doth embrace all the ancient creeds by my own concession , therefore it is a contradiction for me to grant that they hold the ancient creeds , and yet to charge them with idolatry . and these matters being thus made plain , there is no great difficulty to answer , by denying the major proposition , and asserting that a church which does own all the articles of faith which are contained in them , may yet teach and practise those things , which take away from that worship which is proper only to god , and give it to meer creatures ; as i have proved the church of rome doth in the worship of images , adoration of the host , and invocation of saints . but to make this yet more plain , there are two things we consider in a church , the essence , and the soundness of it ; as in a man , we consider his being a man and his health : when we discourse of his meer being , we enquire into no more than those things which make him a man , whether he be sound or not : so in a church , when we enquire into the essentials of it , we think it not necessary to go any farther than the doctrinal points of faith ; the reason is , because baptism admits men into the church upon the profession of the true faith in the father , son , and holy ghost ; and whatever is sufficient to make a member of the church , that is in it self sufficient , being embraced , to make a church ; but when we enquire farther into the moral integrity , or soundness of a church , then we think our selves bound , not barely to know what is acknowledged and received , but how far it is so ; and whether that church which owns the fundamentals of christian faith , doth not by gross and damnable errours corrupt the worship of god , and debauch those very principles which they profess to own . and in this respect none of us ever said , that the church of rome did not err ; nay we do say and have manifestly proved , that she hath erred against the christian faith , by introducing palpable errours in doctrine , and manifold superstitions and idolatries in practice . from hence it plainly appears , that the concession i. w. urges me with of the church of rome being a true church signifies nothing , in the sense by me intended , which contradicts the charge of idolatry ; unless they can prove that none who own the apostles creed , or their baptism , can so long as they so do , teach idolatry , or be guilty of giving the honour due only to god to meer creatures . these things being thus explained , i hope the sophistry of this way of arguing is made so evident , that no man of understanding , that resolves not before hand what to believe , is capable of being deceived by it . before i come to the next contradiction charged upon me , i shall for the diversion of the reader , and the suitableness of the matter , take notice of his appendix , wherein i. w. goes about so pleasantly to prove me an idolater , by a notable trick , which it seems came into his head a little too late , after he had finisht this worthy treatise . i should have suspected it had been intended only for a piece of drollery , but that the man so severely rebukes me for it , and withall talks of nothing less than demonstration in the case . what ? ( thought i ) is it come to this at last ? and am i become an idolater too , who was never apt to think my self enclined so much as to superstition ? but what can not the controverting wit of man do , upon second and serious thoughts ? all the comfort i found left was towards the conclusion , wherein he confesses that the same argument proves the prophets , evangelists and holy ghost himself to be idolaters ; nay then , i hoped there was no great harm to be feared in so good company ; and by that consideration armed my self against this terrible assault . but at last as he made nearer approaches to me , i found no mischief was like to come , but what i brought upon my self ; for he charged me with nothing but my own artillery , and the train that was laid to blow me up was fetched from my own stores ; only he had disposed it in a way fittest for this deep design . but the best of it was , his plot went no farther than my idolatry , and both lay only in imagination . for there he makes the seat of my idolatry , which he demonstratively proves must be so by my own argument . i shall therefore conside● what that was , and with what great art he imploys it against me . among other arguments to shew that the prohibition of worshipping images was not peculiar to the iews , but of an unalterable nature , i insisted upon gods declaring the unsuitableness of it to his own infinite and incomprehensible nature , which could not be represented to men , but in a way which must be an infinite disparagement to it . to whom will ye liken god ? or what likeness will ye compare to him ? it is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth , &c. and the reason given of the law it self was , because they saw no s●militude of god ; from hence i shewed , that the wisest nations and persons among the heathen looked on the worship of god by images , as unsuitable to a divine and infinite being , and that the gospel still more discovered gods spiritual nature , and the agreeableness of spiritual worship to him ; that the apostles urged this argument against the heathen idolatry ; and the fathers of the church thought the reason of this law did equally oblige us with the iews ; now by what art doth he from hence prove me necessarily to be an idolater , as well as they of the church of rome , who worship god by images against the very words and reason of this law ? the argument is briefly summed up by himself thus : whoever worships god represented in a way far inferiour to his greatness is an idolater ; but whosoever worships god represented to him without the beatifical vision , either by words or by imaginations as well as images , he worships god in a way far inferiour to his greatness ; ergo , whoever worships god represented unto him without the beatifical vision is an idolater : but dr. st. worships god without the beatifical vision ( no doubt of it ) ergo , dr. st. is an idolater : there is no help for it . nay , from hence he proves , that i cannot so much as think of god without idolatry my self , nor preach of him without provoking others to it . o the insuperable force of reason , and the dint of demonstration ! but the mischief is , all this subtilty is used against the law-maker and not against me . did i not cite the words of god himself , who therefore did forbid the making any likeness of him , because nothing could be like him ? is there no difference between having imperfect conceptions of god in our minds , and making unworthy representations of him to our senses , with a design to worship them ? why did not god as well forbid the one as he did the other ? were the israelites then in the beatifical vision ? were their conceptions of god suitable to his incomprehensible nature ? if not , why were they not forbidden as well to think of god as to make any images of him ? is god as much disparaged by the necessary weakness of our understandings , as by voluntarily false and corporeal images of him ? nay doth not god design to prevent the errour of our imaginations by such prohibitions as those are ? and thereby commands us to think worthily of him , and when we pray to him , to consider him only as an infinite being in his nature and attributes ? i do not know what imaginations others have of god ; it may be those in the church of rome measure all by themselves , and god by their images of him , and thence conclude , that no men can think of god , but as they picture him , like an old man sitting in heaven ; but i assure them , i never had such an imagination of him , and if i had , should think it very unworthy of him . i know no other conception of god , but of a being infinitely perfect ; and this is rather an intellectual apprehension , than a material imagination of him . i am assured that he is , by mighty and convincing arguments , but to bring him down to my imagination , is to contradict the evidence that i have of his being ; for the same reasons which convince me that he is , do likewise convince me that he is infinite in power , and wisdom , and goodness . if i thought otherwise of him , i should know no reason to give him the worship of my mind and soul. although my conceptions cannot reach his greatness , yet they do not confine it , nor willfully debase it ; they do not bring him down to the meanness of a corporeal image . but because we cannot think highly enough of god , must we therefore devise ways to expose him to contempt and scorn ? and we cannot but despise a deity to whom any image can be like . but such absurd and silly arguments deserve no farther confutation . they indeed may take more liberty , who write to those who are bound not to judge of what is writ , but only to cry it up . as for us , who think it not fit to have our people in such slavery , we dare not venture such idle stuff among them . i come therefore to the second contradiction he charges me with , which is , concerning the danger of salvation which they are lyable to who communicate with the roman church , when yet i acknowledge that church to be a true church , and therefore to be a true way to salvation : and withall arch b. laud , whom i defend , doth grant a possibility of salvation to those in the church of rome . the force of this contradiction depending on these concessions , i shall , . shew in what sense they are granted by us . . examin the strength of the propositions he draws from hence , towards the making this a contradiction . . concerning the roman church being a true church : the arch-bishops adversary having falsely charged him with granting the roman church to be a right church , he complains of his injustice in it ; and saith , that it is a church and a true church he granted , but not a right church ; for truth only imports the being ; right , perfection in conditions ; thus a thief is a true man , though not an upright man. so a corrupt church may be true , as a church is a company of men which profess the faith of christ , and are baptized into his name ; but it is not therefore a right church either in doctrine or manners ; and again saith , it is true in that sense , as ens and verum , being and true , are convertible one with another ; and every thing that hath a being is truly that being which it is in truth of subtance . the replyer to him , saith , that the notion of a church implyes integrity and perfection of conditions ; upon which i gave him this answer , that he did herein betray his weak or willful mistakes of a church morally for metaphysically true . if he could prove it impossible for a church to retain its being that hath any errours in doctrine , or corruptions in practice , he would therein do something to the purpose ; but when he had done it , all that he would get by it was , that then we should not so much as acknowledge the roman church to be metaphysically a true church ; and therefore the reader is left to judge , whether his lordships charity for , or his testimony against their church was built upon better grounds . by this it is evident in what sense it was granted , that the roman church was a true church . . concerning possibility of salvation in that church ; to the question that was asked my lord of canterbury , whether a person might be saved in the roman faith ? he gives this answer , that the ignorant that could not discern the errours of that church , so they held the foundation and conformed themselves to a religious life might be saved : and after explains himself more fully , that might be saved grants but a possibility , no sure or safe way of salvation ; the possibility , i think , saith he , cannot be denyed to the ignorants , especially because they hold the foundation and cannot survey the building . and the foundation can deceive no man that rests upon it : but a secure way they cannot go , that hold with such corruptions when they know them . and again , many protestants indeed confess , there is salvation possible to be attained in the roman church ; but yet they say withall , that the errours of that church are so many , ( and some so great , as weaken the foundation ) that it is very hard to go that way to heaven , especially to them that have had the truth manifested . and in another place , i do indeed for my part ( leaving other men free to their own judgement ) acknowledge a possibility of salvation in the roman church : but so as that which i grant to romanists , is not as they are romanists , but as they are christians , that is , as they believe the creed , and hold the foundation christ himself , not as they associate themselves wittingly and knowingly to the gross superstitions of the roman church . and i am willing to hope there are many among them , which keep within that church , and yet wish the superstitions abolished which they know , and which pray to god to forgive their errours in what they know not , and which hold the foundation firm and live accordingly , and would have all things amended that are amiss , were it in their power . and to such i dare not deny a possibility of salvation , for that which is christs in them , though they hazard themselves extreamly , by keeping so close to that which is superstition , and in the case of images comes too near idolatry . these are my lord of canterburies own words , and laid together in my defence of him , which i. w. ought to have represented , if he had designed any thing but sophistry and trifling . but his game had been then quite spoiled ; the fine sport of making contradictions had been lost , and his cross purposes had come to nothing . i now come to see what contradictions he wire-draws from hence by the help of his propositions . . whoever is in a condition , wherein he is certainly saved , is in no danger or probability of being damned . if by he is certainly saved , he speaks of the event , then he were a hard hearted man that would not grant , that he that is actually saved is in no danger or probability of being damned ; if he means it of a certain way to salvation , then it is yet capable of several meanings . for to be in a certain way may imply one of these three things . . that the way it self is so plain that a man cannot miss of it . . or that the way is in it self certain , but there are so many by-paths and turnings lying hard by it , that it is a very hard matter for any man to keep in it . . to be in a certain way , is , when not only the way it self is certain , but a man keeps constantly in that way . according to these several senses this proposition may be understood ; if by it be meant . . he that is in a certain way to salvation , is in no danger or probability of being damned , i. e. he that keeps constantly in that way which will certainly lead him to heaven , the proposition is true , but impertinent ; but if by it be meant no more but this , that he is in a way which in it self leads to heaven , but there are so many cross and by-paths near it , that though it be possible for him to hit it , yet it is extreamly hazardous , no one can imagine that such a one is in no probability of miscarrying , for we say he is in very great danger of it , notwithstanding the tendency of the way it self . . prop. whoever lives and dyes in a true way to salvation , having conformed to its directions , or whoever has done all that was necessary to attain unto salvation is in a condition , wherein he is certainly saved . the sophistry of this is so palpable , that the weakest eye may discern it ; for it supposes that true way to salvation wherein he lives to be a very safe and secure way , i. e. that it be not only true in it self , but free from such errours and corruptions which may endanger salvation ; and in that sense it is true , but very far from the purpose . for none of us did ever yield that the roman church is a safe way to salvation ; nay it is expresly denyed by my lord of canterbury , as well as by me . but here lyes still another piece of sophistry to be taken notice of , whoever hath done all that was necessary to attain salvation , is in a condition wherein he is certainly saved ; no doubt of it ; but the doing all that is necessary to salvation is not bare believing the necessary articles of faith , contained in the creed , but obeying the will of god ; which cannot be done by those who wilfully adhere to gross and open violations of it ; as i have charged the church of rome to do , in her solemn acts of worship . their cause certainly is at a very low ebb when such pittiful sophistry , must pass for reasoning and demonstration among them . never men had more need of a self-evidencing cause , as well as propositions , than they ; so little help do they contribute to it by their writings . prop. the roman church is a true way to salvation , and teaches all that is necessary to attain unto it . this is granted , he saith , by me and other protestants , when we acknowledge the roman church to be a true church ; but in what sense , i have already explained , so far as to leave no colour of arguing from hence to any contradiction in me . for this true way to salvation in our sense is no more , but that the church of rome doth acknowledge so much of christian faith , as is sufficient to save men , on condition they live accordingly , and do not by gross corruptions in doctrine or practice render that faith ineffectual to them : but withall we assert and maintain , that to these necessary articles of christian faith , the church of rome hath added such errours and corruptions , as make the salvation of any person extreamly hazardous , who lives in the communion of it . and let them have all the comfort from hence which they can , i am sure they have not this , that they have brought me to contradict my self by such concessions as these . by this , his last proposition comes to nothing ; whoever lives and dyes in the communion of the roman church , having conformed to her doctrine , lives and dyes in a true way to salvation having conformed to its directions , and has done all that was necessary to attain to it . which evidently supposes that we yield that the doctrine of the roman church , is a safe way to salvation , which we utterly deny ; all that we assert is , that so much of the common principles of christianity , as is retained in the roman church is sufficient for the salvation of those , who do not wilfully corrupt them by bad opinions and practices , or if they have , do repent sincerely . but for those who conform themselvs to the doctrine and directions of the roman church as such , we are far from ever saying that such live and dye in a true way to salvation ; for this were to make those doctrines and directions to be as holy and innocent as we believe them to be false and pernicious . see now what a contradiction here is ; for me to assert the church of rome to be a true church , because it retains the fundamentals of christianity ; and yet to make the condition of those who live in it so hazardous in point of salvation , by reason of the gross errours , which men are bound to believe as necessary points of faith ; and horrible superstitions which they must conform to , if they follow her directions . surely he could not but know this to be our meaning , and consequently to have no shadow of contradiction in it , no more than is in this plain proposition , that a possible way to salvation may yet be very dangerous . but though iugglers know their own cheats , they would lose their trade if they made them known to the people . something must be said to amuse them , and this seemed the prettiest way , to confound them , by dazeling their eyes with such appearances of contradictions : and thereby to perswade their own party , that they need not fear the the attaque of such an enemy who falls foul upon himself . but it is nothing but the mist he casts before their eyes , can make any have such an imagination ; it is but making things clear , and then nothing but order and agreement appears . but yet he quarrels with me , for making the case of living in willful sin and in the corruptions of the roman church parallel with each other ; . because i will not grant that a willful sin , such as adultery , to be a true way to heaven ; and doth he think that i ever imagined idolatry and gross superstition to be so ; if i grant that in the church of rome they have a true way to heaven , it is as other debauched christians have , who own faith enough to save them , but their destruction comes from not living agreeably to it . . because i grant more to them than to iews or pagans , yet they may be saved if they do repent . true , but they are not in so great likelyhood of repenting , as those who own the fundamental articles of the christian faith , and have a sincere desire in general to serve god according to his will ; the grace of god being more plentiful , where the christian faith is owned , than where it is rejected ; upon which account iews and heathens are in more danger of not repenting , and consequently of salvation than those that live in the roman church . . because i grant a greater capacity of salvation to roman catholicks than they do to protestants ; but they do not d●ny it to protestants if they repent . but the difference lyes in the nature and acts of the rep●●tance required ; we say a 〈◊〉 repentanced and a vertuous sincere mind , which desires to know & do the will of god may be sufficient , together with a particular repentance of all known miscarriages ; but they say such a repentacne is necessary for us , as does imply a disowning our church , as such wherein no salvation is to be had , and a joyning with the communion of the church of rome : therefore the question about their charity and ours , is about the possibility of the salvation of persons living and dying in the communion of either church ; we say on the conditions before mentioned , men may be saved , though they do not in terms renounce their communion , but they say that none who do not return to their communion can be saved ; and in this we justly charge them with horrible uncharitableness , when many of their writers allow a greater possibility of salvation to meer heathens . . because arch-bishop laud grants a greater capacity of salvation than other protestants ; but in what sense i have already shewed . . that this is in effect to say , that it is a true way to heaven if they go out of it . not if they go out of it so far as it is true , but so far only as it is false and dangerous . if a man were going the right way from london to york , as far as stamford , and there went quite out of his way into the fens , here his life is in danger ; if i should tell this man that the way from london to york was a certain way , that the way he went in as far as stamford was a true way , and if he had kept in it , would have brought him to york , but the way he is now in is very dangerous , and if he does not return , his life is in perpetual hazard ; is this all one as if i should tell him , while you were in the true way , you must go out of it ? no such sense can be put upon such words , by any man that hath sense ; and for others , we give them leave to cry nonsense and contradiction . all his other petty objections run upon the same palpable mistake , and it would be but repeating the same thing to answer the other remaining cavils upon this argument . i come therefore to the sore place indeed , the touching whereof hath made them to kick and wince so much at me ; and that is the fanaticism of the roman church . which made them complain to caesar , that it was a new crime , and never heard of before . what ? they ; the sober , the judicious , the wise people of the church of rome turned fanaticks ! it's false , it 's impossible ; nay , it is absolutely and utterly impossible to be true ; and none but atheists can charge them with it . this hath been their common way of answering to this new charge ; but not one wise word hath been said in a just vindication of themselves , by giving answer to those many plain , and undenyable instances i have produced . i wished for no other tryal than to be bound to bring forth their own authors , and to make good the authorities i had cited , and my fidelity therein ; but they have fairly declined this way of tryal . but how then can they free themselves from this imputation ? we have men of art to deal with , and it is some pleasure to observe the skill they use in warding off a blow they did not look for . but if they have nothing more to say then i. w. can help them to , the charge will stick the faster , for his attempt to clear them of it . he begins with a description of fanaticism , which , he saith , doth necessarily contain a resistance of authority ; and for this , very unhappily quotes my own words . by fanaticism we understand either an enthusiastick way af religion , or resisting authority under pretence of religion ; just as if one should say the true notion of idolatry implyes the renouncing the true god , and to prove it should quote words of mine to this purpose , that idolatry is either renouncing the true god , or worshipping the true god by an image : for as in that case , it is evident , i make two sorts of idolatry ; so it is as plain in this , that i make two branches of fanaticism , whereof the one is , an enthusiastick way of religion , the other resistance of authority under the pretence of religion . but if this be the true notion of fanaticism , why doth he not speak one word in vindication of them , from that very kind of fanaticism , which i had charged them to be so deeply guilty of ? had i not proved by plain testimonies , that the most fanatick principles of rebellion were owned by the jesuitical party among them ? viz. the kings deriving his power from the people , and the peoples authority to call the king to an account , and if they see good to take away his power and change the government : and not only so but to take away his life too ? had i not proved by clear and late instances , that the party which owns these principles is to this day the most countenanced and encouraged at rome ? and any honest men among them , as to these principles , are on that account hated and persecuted , as p. w. and his brethren . but why no answer to this charge ? these are things they cannot deny , and yet dare not confess them to be true . if i. w. answer again , let him speak out like a man , and either confess and detest these principles , or we shall charge them farther with this worst and most dangerous sort of fanaticism . my duty and just zeal for his majesties interest and security , will not suffer me to let go this part of the charge against them , although they would fain have it passed over in silence , as though never a word had been said concerning it . this is one of the best arts i have met with in this pamphlet ; for unwary readers will not remember the charge , when they find no answer : but if i. w. had attempted to answer it , his shuffling and tricks might have made the deeper impression in the readers minds . remember then this charge stands good against them , without so much as their pretending to answer it . to come now to the other part of fanaticism , viz. an enthusiastick way of religion : and here to proceed clearly , i shall lay down the method of his defence , and then examine it . the strength of his defence lyes in these propositions . . that fanaticism does necessarily contain a resistance against authority . . no particular ways of religion , countenanced by a competent authority , are fanaticism . . those things which concern religious orders and method of devotion , which i charge them with , are countenanced by a competent authority , viz. the authority of that church . . that church cannot countenance fanatism which obligeth all persons to submit to her judgement . so that here are two principles by which i. w. thinks to vindicate their church from fanaticism ; viz. competent authority , and submission of judgement to the church . to shew the invalidity of this answer , i shall do these things . . shew the insufficiency of it . . the monstrous absurdities consequent upon it . . if this answer were sufficient , he must make it appear , that there have been none charged by me as fanaticks in their church , but such as have submitted themselves and their judgement to the authority of their church . for let us consider the occasion of this charge , and we shall presently discern the insufficiency of this way of answering it . the occasion was , that my adversary made all the sects and fanaticisms among us to be the effect of the reformation ; what answer could be more proper in this case , than to shew , that there were as wild and extravagant fanaticisms before , as have been since ? which is a plain evidence that cannot be the cause of them , to which they imputed them . to make this out , i searched into the several sorts of fanaticism , and gave instances very clear of as great fanaticks in the times before the reformation , as have been since : from the many pretenders to immediate revelations among them , who were persons allowed and approved by their church , and some of them canonized for saints ; but besides these , i gave such other instances of fanaticism among the friers , and others of their church , as were never heard of in the world before ; as the broachers and maintainers of the friers gospel , which was to put out of doors the gospel of christ ; the spiritual brethren of the order of s. francis called by several names , but especially that of fratricelli , who continued long , spread far , and more distrubed the church than any since have done , the dulcinistae in italy , the alumbrado's in spain , &c. what doth he now say concerning all these ? were these countenanced by a competent authority among them ? did they submit their judgement to the church ? if neither of these be pretended in reference to them , then this answer must be very insufficient , because it doth not reach to the matter in charge . . for those who were as he saith , countenanced by authority , and did submit themselves to the church , yet this doth not clear them from fanaticism ; but draws after it these monstrous absurdities . . that prevailing fanaticism ceases to be fanaticism ; like treason , which when it prospers none dare call it treason ; an excellent way , this , to vindicate the fanaticism of the late times , which because countenanced by an authority , supposed competent enough by some who then writ of obedience and government , it ceased to be fanaticism ; and all the wild and extravagant heats of mens brains , their enthusiasms and revelations were regular and orderly things , because countenanced by such authority as was then over them . . by this rule the prophets and apostles , nay our lord himself , were unavoidably fanaticks ; for what competent authority had they to countenance them ? the iewish church was not yet cast off while our saviour lived , but utterly opposed his doctrine and revelation , as coming from a private spirit of his own ; according therefore to these excellent principles , our b. saviour is made a meer fanatick , because he wanted a competent authority of the present church to countenance him ; the same was generally the case of the prophets , and of all the apostles . but what rocks and precipices will a bad cause drive men upon ? if that which makes fanaticism or not fanaticism , be the being countenanced or not countenanced by this competent authority , these horrible absurdities are unavoidable ; and all religion must be resolved into the will and pleasure of this competent authority . but i need not take such pains to prove this , for my brave answerer i. w. sets it down in his own words . moreover , otherwise all the particular manners of preaching or praying practised by the prophets , and all their extraordinary visions and revelations would be flat fanaticism ; but because they were countenanced by a competent authority , they could not deserve that character . excellent doctrine for a popish leviathan ! are you in earnest sir ? do you think the prophets had been fanaticks , in case of no competent authority to countenance them ? what competent authority had the prophet elijah to countenance him , when all the authority that then was , not only opposed him but sought his life ? what competent authority had any of the prophets who were sent to the ten tribes ? what had ieremiah , ezekiel , and the rest of them ? it seems then , all these excellent and inspired persons are cast into the common herd of fanaticks , for want of this competent authority to countenance them . and yet this is the man ( meerly because i lay open the fanaticism of some their pretended saints , such as ignatius loyola and s. francis ) who ranks me with lucian and porphyrie : hath he not himself a great zeal for religion the mean while , resolving all revelation into his competent authority ? and not only so , but paralleling the expressions and practices of s. brigitt , and mother juliana , ( than which scarce any thing was ever printed more ridiculous in the way of revelations ) with those of the holy prophets and apostles ? if a man designed to speak mischievously against the scriptures and divine revelation , he could not do it more to purpose than i. w. hath done in these words ? when he compares things whose folly is so manifest at the first view , with that divine wisdom , which inspired those holy persons , whom god sent upon particular messages to his people , and gave so great assurance that he sent them ; and who delivered matters of great weight and moment , and not such tittle tattle as those two womens books are fraught withall . but if this be the way they have to vindicate them from being fanaticks , it is absolutely the worst that could be thought of ; for it cannot discover so high an opinion of them , as it doth a very mean one of the books of scripture , and the divine revelations therein contained . i could here earnestly intreat the wiser men of that church , for the honour of god , and the christian religion , not to suffer such inconsiderate persons to vindicate their cause , who to defend the extravagant infirmities of some enthusiastical women among them , are so forward to cast dirt and reproach upon our common religion , and those revelations from whence we derive it . but i forbear ; only it is a shrewd sign , if this way be allowed , of a wretched cause , that cannot be maintained without plunging those , who rely upon their word , into the depths of atheism . but these are not things to be so slightly passed over , they deserve a fuller and severer chastisement . for the present , this is enough to shew , what monstrous absurdities this way of vindicating their church from fanaticism hath brought i. w. to . yet in one respect he deserves some pardon , for they are wont to write their answers upon the common themes out of some staunch authors , who considered a little better what they writ ; but this was a new charge , and neither bellarmin , becanus , nor any of their old beaten souldiers , could give them any assistance ; they found not the title of the fanaticism of the roman church in any of their common-place-books ; therefore plain mother-wit must help them , and so it hath bravely . but before they again attempt this matter , i desire them to consider these things , least they should in a desperate humour utterly give up the cause of religion , finding themselves unable to defend that of their church . . whether there can be any greater fanaticism , than a false pretence to immediate divine revelation ? for what can more expose men to all the follies and delusions imaginable , than this will do ? what actions can be so wild and extravagant but men may do , under such a pretence of immediate revelation from god ? what bounds of order and government can be preserved ? some may pretend a revelation to take up arms against their prince , or to destroy all they meet ( which is no unheard of thing ) others may not go so far , but may have revelations of the unlawfulness of kingly government ; others may pretend revelations of a new gospel , and a more spiritual dispensation than hath been yet in the world , as the mendicant friers did . . whether we are bound to believe all such who say , they have divine revelations ? or whether persons may not be deceived in thinking they have revelations , when they are only delusions of their own fancies or the devil ? if not ; then every one is to be believed who pretends to these things , and then all follies and contradictions must be fwallowed which men say they have by immediate revelation ; and every fanatick must be believed , to have divine revelation who believes himself , though he be only deluded by his own imagination , or become enthusiastical by the power of a disease in his head , or some great heat in his blood . . whether there must not be some certain rules established whereby all persons , and even competent authority it self , must proceed in judging these pretences to revelation , whether they be true or false ? for if they proceed without rule , they must either be inspired too , or else , must receive all who pretend to divine revelations : if there be any certain rules , whereby the revelation is to be judged ; then if any persons receive any revelation against those rules , whether are other persons bound to follow their judgement against those rules ? . whether there can be any more certain rule of judging , than that two things evidently contradictory to each other , cannot both come from divine revelation ? for then god must contradict himself , which is impossible to be supposed , and would overthrow the faith of any divine revelation . and this is the plain case of the revelations made to two famous saints in the roman church , s. brigitt and s. catharine ; to one it was revealed , that the b. virgin was conceived with original sin ; to the other , that she was not : both these have competent authority , for they were both canonized for saints by the roman church , and their revelations approved , and therefore ( according to i. w. ) neither of them were fanaticks , though it is certain that one of their revelations was false . for , either god must contradict himself , or one of these must be deceived , or go about to deceive , and what greater fanaticism can there be , than that is ? if one of these had only some fanatick enthusiasm , and the other divine revelation , then competent authority and submission to the judgement of the church , is not a rule to judge fanaticism by ; for those were equal in both of them . . whether there be an equal reason to look for revelations now , as in the time of the prophets , and our saviour , and his apostles ? or whether god communicates revelations to no other end , but to please and gratifie some enthusiastical tempers ? and what should be the reason he should do it more now , than in the age wherein revelations were more necessary ? in those times god revealed his mind to men , but it was for the benefit of others ; when he sent them upon particular messages , as the prophets , or made known some future events to them of great importance to the church , as the coming of the messias , &c. or inspired them to deliver weighty doctrines to the world , as he did both the prophets and apostles : why should we think , that god now , when the revelations of these holy and inspired persons are upon record , and all things necessary to his church are contained therein , should vary this method of his , and entertain some melancholy and retired women , or other enthusiastical persons with visions and revelations of no use to his church ? . whether god doth ever inspire persons with immediate revelations without giving sufficient evidence of such inspiration ? for if he did , it were to leave men under a temptation to infidelity without means to withstand it ; if he doth not , then we have reason to examine the evidence , before we believe the revelation . the evidence god gave of old was either the prophecy of a succession of prophets , by one whose commission was attested by great miracles , as moses , who told the israelites , they were to expect prophets , and laid down rules to judge of them by ; or else by miracles wrought by themselves as by the apostles whom our lord sent abroad to declare his will to the world . and where these are not , what reason is there to receive any new revelations as from god , especially when the main predictions of the new testament are of false prophets , and false miracles ? . whether the revelations of their pretended saints being countenanced by the authority of their church , be equally received among them , with the revelations contained in scripture ? if they be , then they ought to have equal reverence paid to them , and they ought to read them as scripture , to cite their authority as divine , and to believe them as infallible as christ and his apostles ; if they be not , than whatever they pretend , they are not looked on as divine revelations by them , as manifestly appears , because they are wholly rejected by some of the wisest of them , doubted of , and disputed by others , as it were easie to prove were it not too large a subject for this discourse , but by none received as writings of divine authority , and equal with the scriptures , which they must be if they came from the same spirit . and since they are not , it is evident that they are no otherwise esteemed among themselves , than as the fanatick heats of some devout persons of disturbed and deluded fancies ; whom notwithstanding they are willing to cherish , partly because they are loth to discountenance any pretence to an infallible spirit in their church , and partly that there may never be wanting matter to make saints of , when the pope thinks fit , and good consideration is offered . this may suffice to make good this charge of fanaticism against the roman church ; and to shew that i am as far from the appearance of any contradiction therein ( although their revelations are not from a real one ) as i. w's vain and sophistical talk is from any appearance of reason . the last contradiction charged upon me , is , about the divisions of the roman church . the occasion of which discourse was , that divisions were objected to me as another consequent of the reformation ; upon which i thought my self obliged to enquire into the vnity of their church , and i have at large proved from undenyable instances , attested by their own authors , that they have no reason to insult over other churches on account of their divisions , nor to boast of their own unity and peace . for i have there proved that there have never been greater disturbances in the christian world , than what they call the means of unity , viz. the popes authority , hath procured , no where greater or more lasting schisms , no where fiercer disputes about matters of order and doctrine , than among them . i considered all their salvo's and from them shew'd , that if they have no divisions among themselves neither have we ; nay the same arguments which prove they do not differ in matters of faith from each other , do likewise prove that they and we do not differ from each other in those things . and what saith i. w. to all this ? instead of healing their own divisions , he only designs to prove me to be divided against my self , that he might make up the full tale of his contradictions . but i. w. had so much forgot himself as to make good the very thing i designed ; and by that very argument he uses to prove that i contradict my self , he manifestly proves that there are no more divisions in matters of faith , between the roman church and us than there are among themselves . this i shall make very evident , but i must proceed as he doth with his propositions . . no divisions from the roman church are divisions of the roman church . this is a very subtle principle of unity among them , and by this rule there would be an admirable unity in the roman church , if the pope himself were left alone in it . for all others would only be divided from it , and i would allow the pope to be at a very good agreement with himself , which is more than i. w. will allow me : in this case indeed there would be vnity , but where would be their church ? suppose a shepherd should boast of the excellent government of a great flock he had under his command , and the unity and peace they lived in ; and a by-stander should tell him that he saw others pretend to the same authority over that flock that he did , and part followed one and part another , he saw some of the chief of the leaders set themselves against him disputing his authority , he saw many of the sheep continually fighting with each other , and some had wholly forsaken him ; would it not be a pleasant thing for this shepherd to say that notwithstanding all this they had great peace and unity , because as many as did not quarrel were very quiet , and those that were divided from his government were not under it ? but our question is , whether such authority be the means to preserve the whole flock under government , when we see it prevents no divisions but causes many ? he might have spoken more to the purpose if he had framed his proposition thus , there can be no divisions in the roman church , but such as divide men from it ; and in that case the roman church would have been reduced to a very small number . but if there may be such divisions which are as contrary to unity and peace as divisions in matters of faith are , to what purpose is it to shew that they have none in one kind if they have very great in all others ? but although this be not sufficient to demonstrate their vnity , yet it is enough for his purpose , if it doth shew that i contradict my self . but where lyes the contradiction ? the force of it lyes here . i charge them with divisions in matters of faith , when divisions in matters of faith make them not to be members of the roman church ; therefore there can be no divisions in the roman church in matters of faith . again ( for in these two arguments the substance of his own propositions is couched by himself ) all those who assent unto the ancient creeds are undivided in matters of faith ; but all roman catholicks assent unto the ancient creeds ; ergo , all roman catholicks are undivided in matters of faith , and consequently it is a calumny in me to say they are divided in these matters . now , what an easie matter is it to disposses me of this spirit of contradiction , which he imagines me possessed with ? i need no holy water , or sacred charms and exorcisms to do it with . there needs no more but understanding what is meant by matters of faith ; when matters of faith are spoken of by me in the place he refers to , it is evident to every one that reads it , and by his own words i speak only of the fundamental and necessary articles of faith , which are necessary to the salvation of all and to the very being of a church ; of which kind i say none ought to be esteemed , that were not admitted into the ancient creeds . but when i charge them with divisions in matters of faith , i do not mean that they reject the ancient creeds , but i take matters of faith in their own sense for things defined by the church ; and if i. w. had sought for any thing but words to raise cavils upon , he might have found it so explained in the very place where i speak of this . for that discourse is to answer an objection of theirs , that they do not differ in those things which they esteem matters of faith ; and particularly i insisted upon that , that they cannot be sure whether they differ in matters of faith or no , because they are not agreed what makes things to become matters of faith . can this be understood any other way than of their own sense of matters of faith ? and is not this fair dealing to make me contradict my self because where i argue against them i take matters of faith in their sense , and where i deliver my own opinion , i take them in another sense ? and this being the sense of matters of faith the trifling of his arguing appears ; for do all these cease to be members of their church who dispute any thing which others account matter of faith among them ? are the iesuits all out of the church of rome , because they deny the efficacy of grace which the domini●ans account a matter of faith ? are the iansenists and oral traditionists divided from the church of rome because they deny the popes infallibility which the iesuits account a matter of faith ? if not , then all divisions in matters and articles of faith , are not divisions from the true church and from all her members ; and so his second proposition comes to nothing : and so likewise the third , that all divisions in matters of faith , so esteemed by them , are divisions from the roman church . but the fourth and fifth propositions are the most healing principles that have yet been thought on . fie for shame ! why should we and they of the church of rome quarrel thus long ? we are very well agreed in all matters of faith , and i shall demonstratively prove it from the argument of i. w. drawn from his two last propositions . all who assent unto the ancient creeds are undivided in matters of faith , by prop. . but both papists and protestants do assent unto the ancient creeds ; ergo , they are undivided in matters of faith and hath not i. w. now done his business , and very substantially proved the thing he intended ? but i hope we may enjoy the benefit of it , as well as those of the church of rome ; and that they will not hence forward charge us with dividing from their church in any matters of faith , since we are all agreed in owning the ancient creeds ; and seeing , we cannot be divided from the church but by differing in matters of faith according to his propos. it follows that we are still members of the true church , and therefore neither guilty of heresie nor schism . but if those who do own and assent to the ancient creeds may yet be divided in matters of faith , as they charge us by rejecting the definitions of the roman church , then there is no shadow of a contradiction left in my charging them with differences in matters of faith among themselves , though i say , they own the ancient creeds . and now , reader , thou seest what all these pitiful cavils are come to ; and what ground there hath been for them to glory in this pusionello , that with a sheet and a half hath compelled me , as he saith , to be my own executioner . but these great heroes must be allowed to relate their famous adventures , with some advantage to themselves : it might have been enough to have rescued the lady , but not only to destroy the giant ( as any man must be accounted whom such knights encounter ) but to leave him grovelling in the ground and gasping for breath , and that by wounds he forced him to give himself , this is beyond measure glorious . go thy way then for the eighth champion of christendom , enjoy the benefit of thy illustrious fame , sit down at ease , and relate to thy immortal honour thy mighty exploits ; only when thou hast done , remember thou hast encountred nothing but the wind-mills of thy own imagination , and the man whom thou thought'st to have executed by his own hands , stands by and laughs at thy ridiculous attempts . but i forget , that i am so near his conclusion , wherein he doth so gravely advise me that i would be pleased for once to write controvesies , not play-books : his meaning i suppose , is , that i would return to the old beaten road where they know how to find a man , and have something to say because others have said something before them ; and not represent the ridiculous passages of their fanaticks ; for the defence of which they are furnisht with no distinctions out of their usual magazines , their present manuals of controversie . i shall be contented to wait their leisure if they have any thing material to say ; as i. w. gives me some hopes , when he saith , that other more learned pens ( i shall be glad to see them ) will give me a more particular and compleat answer . i hope not in the way of cavilling ; if they do , i shall hereafter only contemn them ; but i am afraid of their good intentions by the books he mentions as such considerable things in answer to my vindication of arch-bishop laud , viz. the guide in controversies , and protestancy without principles ; if others write as they have done , i shall take as little notice of them as i have done of those . cannot a dull book come out with my name in the title , but i must be obliged to answer it ? no , i assure them i know better how to spend my time . i say still , let a just answer come forth , that deals by me as i did by the book i answered , and then let them blame me , if i neglect it . but at last he gives one general reason why no great matter is to be expected to come abroad in print : not , but that they have men of learning among them : no doubt of it : but alas for them ! they are so persecuted in the printing houses that nothing of theirs is suffered to come abroad , only by great good fortune this complaint is in print and comes abroad openly enough . how long i pray have these days of persecution been ? for , whatever you imagine i was so far from having any hand in it , that the first time i ever heard of it , was from your complaints . have you not formerly complained thus , when books too many have been printed and published in england ? and what assurance can you give us that you do not still complain without cause ? but , not to suffer you to deceive the people any longer in this kind ( by pretending that this is the reason why you do not answer our books , because you have no liberty of the press ) i have at this time a catalogue by me of above two hundred popish books printed in our own language ( which i shall produce on a just occasion ) a considerable part whereof have been published within the compass of not many years . and yet all possible efforts are used by us ( saith i. w. ) to hinder their doctors from shewing their learning ; this of late we must needs say , they have very sparingly done ; but all the arts we have , cannot hinder some of them from shewing their weakness , as this i. w. hath very prodigally done in this pamphlet . finis . an answer to the book , entituled , dr. stillingfleet's principles considered . although i write no plays , yet i hope i may have leave to say the scene is changed ; for instead of the former sophister , one now comes forth in the habit of a grave divine , whom i shall treat with the respect due to his appearance of modesty and civility . i pass by therefore all those unhandsome reflections in his preface , which i have not already answered in mine , and come immediately to the main controversie between us , which i acknowledge to be of so great importance as to deserve a sober debate . and the controversie in short is this , whether protestants who reject the roman churches authority and infallibility , can have any sufficient foundation to build their faith upon ? this we affirm , and those of the church of rome confidently deny ; and on this account do charge us with the want of principles , i. e. sufficient grounds for our faith . but this may be understood two ways . . that we can have no certainty of our faith as christians without their infallibility . . or that we can have no certainty of our faith as protestants , i. e. in the matters in debate between their church and ours . these two ought carefully to be distinguished from each other : and although the principles i laid down , do reach to both these , yet that they were chiefly intended for the former , will appear by the occasion of adding them to the end of the answer there given . the occasion was , my adversaries calling for grounds and principles ; upon which i there say , that i would give an account of the faith of protestants in the way of principles , and of the reason of our rejecting their impositions . the first i undertook on two accounts . . to shew that the roman churches authority and infallibility cannot be the foundation of christian faith , and so we may be very good christians without having any thing to do with the church of rome . . that this might serve as a sufficient answer to a book entituled protestants without principles . which being in some part of it directed against me i had reason , not only to lay down those principles , b●t to do it in such a manner as did most directly overthrow the principles of that book . which being only intimated there , i must now to make my proceeding more clear and evident , produce those assertions of e. w. for which mine were intended . in the first chapter he designs to prove , that all men must be infallible in the assent they give to matters of faith . for , saith he , if they disown such infallible believers , they must joyntly deny all infallible faith : and a little after , an infallible verity revealed to us forcibly requires an answerable and correspondent infallible faith in us : and therefore he asserts a subjective infallibility in true believers . and from hence he proves the necessity of infallible teachers ; for infallible believers and infallible teachers , he saith , seem neer correlatives . in the second chapter he saith , he that hears an infallible teacher hath the spirit of truth , and he that hears not an infallible teacher wants this spirit of truth ; by which he does not mean an infallible revealer of the doctrine at first ; but the immediate teachers of the revealed doctrine , for , saith he , no man can be a heretick that denies the objective verities revealed in gods word , unless he be sure that his teacher reveals those verities infallibly . he proposes the objection of a simplician , as he calls him , that he builds his faith and religion , not on any preachers talk but on the objective verities revealed in scripture : to which he answers , that unless he first learn of some infallible oracle , the sense of scripture in controverted places , he can never arrive to the depth of gods true meaning , or derive infallible faith from those objective revealed verities . he yet farther asserts , that every catechist , or preacher that hath a lawful mission , and is sent by the infallible church to teach christs sacred doctrine , if he preach that doctrine which christ and his church approves of , is then under that notion of a member conjoyned with an infallible church , infallible in his teaching ▪ and thence concludes , that infallibility doth accompany both teachers and hearers : and from denying this infallibility , he saith , follows an utter ruine of christian religion yea and of scripture too . and afterwards he goes about to prove that no man can have any divine faith without infallibility in the proponent ; for , faith he , as long as the infallibility of a revelation stands remote from me for want of an undoubted application made by an infallible proponent , it can no more transfuse certainty into faith , than fire at a great distance , warm . this is the sum of the principles of that metaphysical wit ; but sure a man must have his brains well confounded by school divinity and hard words , before he can have common sense little enough to think he understands them . but because i never loved to spend time in confuting a man , who thinks himself the wiser for speaking things , which neither he nor any one else can understand ; i rather chose in as short a way as i could , to put together such propositions , as might give an account of christian faith without all this iargon about infallibility . in order to this , i first laid down the principles wherein all parties are agreed ; and then such propositions as i supposed would sufficiently give an account of our faith , without any necessity of such an infallibility as he makes necessary for the foundation of it . but for our clearer proceeding in an argument of this importance , it will be necessary to state and fix the notion of infallibility before i come to particulars . for as it is used it seems to be a rare word for iugglers in divinity to play tricks with ; for sometimes they apply it to the object that is believed , and call that infallibly true ; sometimes to the subject capable of believing , and say persons ought to be infallibly certain that what they believe is infallibly true ; and sometimes to the means of conveying that infallible truth to the faculties of men , and these they say must be infallible , or else there can be no infallible certainty of any thing as infallbly true . but the subtilty of these things lies only in their obscurity ; and the school-man is spoiled when his talk is brought down out of the clouds to common sense : i will therefore trie to bring these things out of their terms to a plain meaning ; and surely we may speak and understand each other in these matters without this doubtful term of infallibility . for if it signifies any thing , we may make use of the thing it signif●es in stead of the word , and by applying the thing signified by it , to that which it is spoken of , we shall soon discern how justly it is attributed to it . infallibile is that which cannot be deceived ; now if no one will say , that a proposition cannot be deceived , it is absurd to say that it is infallibly true ; therefore the matters revealed considered as objective verities , as our schoolman speaks , are not capable of infallibility ; which cannot belong to the truth proposed , but to him that propounds or believes it . for to be deceived or not to be deceived , are proper only to persons ; and the impossibility of being deceived does in truth belong only to an infinitely perfect understanding ; for what ever understanding is imperfect , is of it self liable to errour and mistake . and yet an understanding liable to be deceived may not be deceived , and be sure it is not . the highest assurance of not being deceived , is from gods revealing any thing to men ; for we know it impossible that god should be deceived , or go about to deceive mankind in what he obliges them to believe as true . this then is granted , that whatever any person speaks immediately from god , he cannot be deceived in it ; but men may be deceived in thinking they speak from god when they do not . there is then no difficulty in the first , that what ever persons are inspired by god are infallible in what they speak ; but the main difficulty is about the assurance which god gives to men that they are inspired . two ways it may be conceived that men cannot be deceived in this matter . . if god inspires every particular person with the belief of this , and gives him such evidence thereof as cannot be false . . or if god shall inspire some persons in every age to assure the world , that those before them were inspired : but notwithstanding this , particular persons may be deceived , in believing those inspired who are not ; and to prevent this , nothing can be sufficient but divine revelation to every particular person that he hath appointed those infallible guides in his church , to assure men that he had at first setled his church by persons that were infallible ; but then , why might not such a particular revelation assure men as well immediately that christ and his holy apostles were infallible , as that the guides of the present church are infallible ? for it is unconceivable that persons should be more infallible in judging the inspiration of the present guides , than of the first founders of the church . and supposing men not inspired , they may be deceived in believing this infallibility of the present church , and if they may be deceived , how can their faith be infallible ? so that nothing can make the faith of particular persons infallible , but private inspiration which must resolve all faith into enthusiasm and immediate revelation . and nothing can be more absurd than to say , that there are infallible believers without infallible inspiration ; or that an infallible proponent can transfuse infallibility into faith , unless the infallibility of that proponent be first made known to the believer in such a way as he cannot be deceived in . for in matters of divine revelation , the main thing we are to enquire after , is the infallibility of those who delivered this doctrine to the world. and although the reason of believing what god saith , be his own infallibility , which is natural and essential to him ; yet the reason of my assenting to this or that doctrine , as coming from god , must be an assurance that god hath secured those persons from mistake whom he hath imployed to make known the doctrine to the world. those persons then whom god inspired , are the proponents of matters of faith to us : and if they give us sufficient reason to believe that they were inspired , we are bound to believe them , otherwise not . but to suppose that we cannot believe the first infallible proponents , unless there be such in every age , is to make more difficulties , and to answer none . for then all my belief of the infallibility of the first proponents , must depend on the evidence which the present guides of the church give of their infallibility , who yet cannot pretend to the same evidence which they had : and here is no difficulty answered , for we are certainly bound as much to enquire into the reason of our believing the present guides of the church infallible , as the apostles : and if men cannot be infallible in believing the apostles , unless there be other infallible proponents in every age , to assure them that the apostles were inspired , why must not the infallibility of these present proponents be likewise so attested as well as of the apostles ? and what undoubted application can be made of the churches infallibility , unless there be some other infallible proponent still to transfuse certainty into my belief of that , by vertue of which , i must believe all other matters of faith , which is the churches infallibility ? so that the last proponent must either be believed for himself without any further evidence , and then the shorter way would be to believe the first so , or else there will be an endless infallibility ; or at last all must be resolved into the enthusiasm of every particular person , if we do not rest satisfied with the rational evidence which those persons , who were inspired by god , did give to the world that they were sent by him : and then let the world judge whether christ and his apostles did not give stronger evidence that they were sent from god , than the pope or the guides of the present church do ? and if so , whether i● be possible for men to do greater disse●vice to christianity , than to suspend our belief of the inspiration of the founders of the christian church , on a thing , at least , far less evident than the thing to be believed by it is ? but in plain english , on a thing notoriously false ; and only the arrogant pretence of an usurping faction , which thinks it easier boldly to say that it cannot be deceived , than to defend it self against the just accusations both of deceiving , and being deceived . these things being premised , i now come to consider how far n. o. hath shewed the invalidity of the principles laid down by me , for the end for which i intended them . the design of them was to shew , that we may have sufficient certainty of our faith , without the infallibility of the roman church ; the answerer hath yielded some things and denied others . i shall therefore first lay down his concessions , and see of what force they are to the issue of this controversie , and then come fairly to debate the matters in difference between us . i. for his concessions . . he yields , that there is no necessity at all of infallibility under natural religion : which was implied in the second and third propositions which are granted by him . for in the second proposition i assert , that man being framed a rational creature capable of reflecting upon himself , may antecedently to any external revelation certainly know the being of god , and his dependence upon him ; else there could be no such thing as a law of nature , or any principles of natutural religion : which , he saith , may be granted . all supernatural and external revelation , must suppose the truth of natural religion ; for unless we be antecedently certain that there is a god , and that we are capable of knowing him , it is impossible to be certain , that god hath revealed his will to us by any supernatural means . let this be granted , saith he . from whence it follows that we have sufficient certainty of the principles of natural religion , without any such thing as infallibility . . he yields , that reason is to be judge concerning divine revelation ; which appears by the next proposition . nothing ought to be admitted for divine revelation , which overthrows the certainty of those principles which must be antecedently supposed to all divine revelation : for that were to overthrow the means whereby we are to judge concerning the truth of any divine revelation . of which , he saith , let this also be granted . . he yields , that the will of god may be sufficiently declared to men by writing , for he grants the tenth proposition , which is this . if the will of god cannot be sufficiently declared to men by writing , it must either be , because no writing can be intelligible enough for that end , or that it can never be known to be written by men infallibly assisted ; the former is repugnant to common sense , for words are equally capable of being understood , spoken or written ; the latter overthrows the possibility of the scriptures being known to be the word of god. this , saith he , is granted . . he yields , that the written will of god doth contain all things simply necessary to salvation . for in his consideration of the . proposition , these are his words : mean while as touching the perfection of holy scriptures , catholicks now , as the holy fathers anciently , do grant that they contain all points , which are simply necessary to be of all persons believed for attaining salvation . . he yields , that no person is infallibly certain of or in his faith , because the proponent thereof is infallible , unless he also certainly know , or have infallible evidence that he is infallible ; only he adds , that for begetting an infallible assent to the thing proposed , it is sufficient if we have an infallible evidence either of the thing proposed , or of the proponent only . which is all i desire as to this matter . but he quarrels with me for saying , proposition . it is necessary therefore in order to an infallible assent , that every particular person be infallibly assisted , in judging of the matters proposed to be believed : because , saith he , it is not necessary to have an infallible evidence of the truth of the things proposed , i. e. from the internal principles that prove or demonstrate them ; but it is enough that he have an infallible or sufficiently certain evidence only of the infallibility of the external proponent ▪ where there are two things to be taken notice of . . that by the matters proposed to be believed , he would seem to understand me only of the things that are to be believed by vertue of any proponent supposed infallible ; whereas i meant it of all such things to which an infallible assent is required , and chiefly of that by which we are to believe the things revealed ; as for instance , that the church is infallible , is in the first place to be believed upon their principles , and either an infallible assent is required to this or not ; if not , then infallibility is not necessary to faith ; if it be , then this infallible assent must be built on an infallibility antecedent to that of the church ; and then my consequence necessarily follows , that the ground on which a necessity of some external infallible proponent is asserted , must rather make every particular person infallible , if no divine faith can be without an infallible assent , and so renders any other infallibility useless . . that he explains infallible evidence by that which is sufficiently certain , which is meer shuffling : for he knows well enough that we contend for sufficiently certain evidence as much as they ; our only question is about infallibility , whether that be necessary or no ? if sufficiently certain evidence will serve for the churches infallibility , why may it not for the scriptures , or any matters of faith contained therein ? if they mean no more by infallibility but sufficient certainty , why do they make so great a noise about it , as though there could be no faith and we no christians without infallibility ? when we all say that the matters of faith have sufficient certainty , nay the highest which such things are capable of . is infallible faith come to be sufficiently certain only ? for all that i know an infallible pope may by such another explication become like one of us . . he yields , that a right and saving faith may be without any infallible assurance concerning the churches infallibility . which , he saith , is abundantly declared by catholick writers . i only desire to know , why a like right and saving faith may not be had concerning the scriptures , without their churches infallibility ? for from hence it follows , that an infallible assent is not requisite to saving faith ; directly contrary to my former adversary e. w. for one saith , it is necessary to faith , and the other , that it is not . but above all , how will he ever answer this to mr. i. s. who hath written a whole book purposely against this principle , as impious and atheistical ? methinks this way of defending the main foundation of their faith by principles so directly contradicting one another looks a little scandalously , and brings an odd suspition upon their cause , as if it were very hard to be made good , when our adversaries cannot agree by which of two quite contrary principles it was best be maintained . . he yields , that the utmost assurance a man can have of the churches infallibility , is only moral ; but to make it up , he calls it a moral infallibility ; which , how strangely soever it sounds , yet his meaning is good ; for it is such an infallibility , as is not infallibility . hath the dispute been thus long among us , whether infallibility be necessary or no to faith , and now at last one comes and tells us , yes surely , a moral infallibility is necessary . i have heard of a ho● dispute between two gentlemen about transubstantiation , very earnest they were on both sides ; at last another falls into their company and asked them what it was they were about ; they told him transubstantiation : very well , said he , but i pray tell me what you mean by it ; one said it was standing at the eucharist , and the other kneeling . much such another explication is this here of infallibility , only this is somewhat worse , for it is joyning two words together which destroy each other ; for if it be only moral certainty , it is not infallible ; if it be infallible , it cannot be barely moral . i expect to hear shortly of an accidental transubstantiation , a co-ordinate supremacy , as well as a moral infallibility . but we are to suppose that by infallibility he means no more than certainty , because he explains it by the certainty of universal tradition : this were well enough , if in the precedent page he had not said , that a particular person may be infallible in the assent he gives to some matter proposed , viz. to this , that the church is infallible ; i would fain understand what this infallible assent is grounded upon , and if the evidence be only sufficiently or morally infallible , which are his own terms , how the assent which is built upon it , comes to be more than so . it is very pleasant to observe how mr. cressey , and some other late writers of their church are perplexed about this word infallibility , as if they had a wolf by the ears , they cannot tell how to hold it , and they are afraid to let it go . and very loth is is our n. o. to part with the sound of infallibility , although his own concessions perfectly overthrow it , as will yet further appear by this last , viz. . that moral certainty is a sufficient foundation for faith. this will appear by my . proposition , which is this : the nature of certainty doth receive several names either according to the nature of the proof , or the degrees of the assent . thus moral certainty may be so called , either as it is opposed to mathematical evidence , but implying a firm assent upon the highest evidence that moral things can receive : or as it is opposed to a higher degree of certainty in the same kind , so moral certainty implies only greater probabilities of one side than the other . in the former sense we assert the certainty of christian faith to be moral , but not only in the latter . to which he saith , this principle is granted , if importing only that christians have or may have a sufficiently certain and infallible evidence of the truth of their christianity . whereby it is plain that though he useth the term infallible , yet he means no more than i do , or else he ought not to have brought that as an explication of my principle which is contrary to it , as in this controversie , moral certainty is opposed to strict demonstration and infallibility . but if he by infallibility means only sufficient certainty , i shall be content for quietness sake , that he shall call it infallibility , if he pleases . and that he can mean no more by it , appears not only by what he hath said before , but by what he saith afterwards in these words . a natural or moral certainty ( though not such a one as cannot possibly be false , but which according to the laws of nature and the common manners and experience of men is not false ) is sufficient on which to ground such a faith as god requires of us ; in respect of that certainty which can be derived from humane sense or reason , and which serves for an introductive to the reliance of this our faith upon such revelation as is believed by us divine ; and which if divine , we know is not possibly fallible ; in respect of its relying on which revelation , an infallible object , and not for an infallible certainty as to the subject , it is that this our faith is denominated a divine faith. now this natural or moral certainty is thought sufficient for the first rational introductive and security of our faith , not only by the doctor in his . principle , but also by catholick divines in their discourses of the prudential motives . very well said , and i were a very disingenuous man , if i should not heartily thank him for so free a confession , by which , if i understand any thing , he very fairly gives up the cause of infallibility , as to the necessity of it in order to faith : as will easily appear by the managing of it , so far as i have been concerned in it . it is evident to any one that will cast an eye on the controversie of infallibility , between the arch-bishop and his adversaries , that it was raised on this account , because those of the church of rome asserted , that the infallible testimony of the church was necessary in order to the believing the scriptures to be the word of god : and so much is endeavoured to be defended by him who pretended to answer my lord of canterburies book , who goes upon this principle , that this is to be believed with a divine faith , and a divine faith must be built upon an infallible testimony ; the falsehood of which , i at large shewed in the discourse of the resolution of faith. since the publishing whereof , the metaphysical gentleman before mentioned , pretended to answer that part of it which concerns infallibility and moral certainty . some of his assertions i have laid down already , as contrary to this of n. o. as may be ; for he not only asserts the necessity of infallibility for a foundation of christian faith , but spends some chapters in rambling talk against moral certainty . the title of one of which is , faith only morally certain is no faith. i desire n. o. and e. w. to agree better before they goe abo●● to confute me ; and to what purpose should● trouble my self with answering a man who● principles the more ingenuous of their ow● party disown , as well as we ? for not on●● n. o. here makes moral certainty a sufficien● ground for divine faith , but the guide ● controversies , another of my adversaries , a●serts the same , when he saith , and indee● from what is said formerly , that a divine faith may be had by those who have had 〈◊〉 extrinsecal even morally infallible ( i see now from whom n. o. learnt these terms ) motive thereof , it follows that divine faith doth not resolve into such motives either as the formal cause , or always as the applicative introductive , or condition of this divine faith . and a little after , that it is not necessary that such faith always should have an external rationally infallible ground or motive thereto ( whether church authority or any other ) on his part that so believes . by these concessions it appears that the cause of infallibility , as far as it concerns the necessity of it in order to faith , is clearly given up by these persons ; and if others be still of another mind among them , i leave them to dispute it among themselves . thus far then we are agreed ; i now come to consider where the controversie still remains , and why the rest of my principles may not pass as well as these . in order to this , i must , by taking a view of his several exceptions and answers , draw together a scheme of those principles which he sets up in opposition to mine ; and if i do not very much mistake , they may be reduced to these three . . that god hath given an infallible assistance to the guides of the church in all ages of it , for the direction of those who live in it . . that without this infallible assistance there can be no certainty of the sense of scripture . . that all the arguments which overthrow the churches infallibility ; do destroy the churches authority . these , as far as i can perceive , contain the whole force of his considerations ; and in the examination of these the remaining discourse must be spent ; in which i shall have occasion to take notice of whatever is material in his book . . the main controversie is , whether god hath given an infallible assistance to the guides of the church in all ages , for the conduct of those who live in it ? for if he hath not , my adversary cannot deny , but the principles laid down by me must hold . for in case there be no infallibility in the guides of the church , every one must be left to the use of his own understanding , proceeding in the best manner , to find out what the will of god is in order to salvation . we do not now dispute concerning the best helps for a person to make use of in a matter of this nature ; but the q●estion is , whether a man ought to resign his own judgement to that of the church , which pretends to be infallible as to all necessaries for salvation ? or supposing no such infallibility , whether a person using his faculties in the best manner about the sense of scriptures , with the helps of divine grace , may not have sufficient certainty thereby what things are required of him in order to happiness ? hereby i exclude nothing that may tend to the right use of a mans understanding in these things , whether it be the direction of pastors ; the decrees of councils , the sense of the primitive church , or the care , industry , and sincerity of the enquirer ; but supposing all these , whether by not believing the guides of the church to be infallible , the foundation of this persons faith can be nothing else but a trembling quicks and , as n. o. speaks in his preface ; only from the supposing an errability in the guides of gods church . and a little after he lays down that as his fundamental principle , that the only certain way not to be misled , will be the submitting our internal assent and belief to church authority ; or as he elsewhere speaks , to the infallible guideship of church gover●ors . here then two questions necessarily arise : . whether there can be no certainty of faith without this infallibility ? . what certainty there is of this infallibility ? . whether there can be no certainty of faith without infallibility in the guides of the church , and submitting our internal assent and belief to them ? for the clearing of this we must consider what things are agreed upon between us , that by them we may proceed to the resolution of this question . . it is i suppose agreed , that every man hath in him a faculty of discerning of truth and falshood . . that this faculty must be used at least in the choice of infallible guide ; for otherwise a man must be abused with every pretence of infallibility , and george fox may as well be followed as the pope of rome ; and to what purpose are all prudential motives and arguments for infallibility , if a man must not judge whether they be good or no , i. e. sufficient to prove the thing ? . that god is not wanting in necessaries to the salvation of mankind . . that the books of scripture received on both sides do contain in them the will of god in order to salvation . . that all things simply necessary to salvation are contained therein , which is a concession mentioned before . these things being supposed , the question now is , whether a person not relying on the infallibility of a church , may not be certain of those things which are contained in those books in order to salvation ? for of those ou● present enquiry is , and not about the sense of the more difficult and controverted places ; and if we can make it appear that men may be certain as to matters of salvation without infallibility , let them prove ( if they can ) the necessity of infallibility for things which are not necessary to salvation . but of the sense of scripture in those things afterwards ; i now enquire into the certainty men may attain to , of the necessaries to salvation in scripture : and concerning this , i laid down this proposition . although we cannot argue against any particular way of revelation from the necessary attributes of god , yet such a way as writing being made choice of by him , we may justly say , that it is repugnant to the nature of the design and the wisdom and goodness of god to give infallible assistance to persons in writing his will for the benefit of mankind , if those writings may not be understood by all persons who sincerely endeavour to know the meaning of them in all such things as are necessary for their salvation . this principle , he saith , is unsound ; which , if he can prove , i may have more reason to question it than i yet have . and i assure him i expect no mean proofs to shake my belief of a principle of so great importance to the christian religion . for it being granted by him , that all things simply necessary to salvation , are contained in the books of scripture , i desire to know whether things simply necessary ought not to be delivered with greater plainness than things which are not so ? whether god appointing the evangelists and apostles to write these things , did not intend that they should be so expressed as they might most easily be understood ? whether our saviours own sermons vere capable of being understood by those who heard them , without some infallible interpreter ? whether the evangelists did not faithfully deliver our saviours doctrine ? if they did , how that comes to be obscure now , which was plain then ? so that either christ himself must be charged with not speaking the will of god plainly , or the evangelists cannot be charged with not expressing it so . there are no other books in the world that i know of , that need an infallible interpreter : and we can tell certainly enough what any other religion requires , supposing it to be written in the same way that the christian is : is it not possible for a man to be certain what the law of moses required of the people of israel , by reading the books of that law , without some infallible guides ▪ do the ten commandments need an infallible comment ? or can we have now no certainty of the meaning of the levitical law , because there is no high-priest or sanhedrin to explain it ? and if it be possible to understand the necessaries of that dark dispensation in comparison with the gospel , are o●r eyes now blinded with too much light ? is not christianity therefore highly recommended to us in the new testament , because of the clearness and perspicuity wherein the doctrines and precepts thereof are delivered ? and yet after all this , cannot the most necessary parts of it , he understood by those who sincerely endeavour to understand them ? by which sincere endeavour we are so far from excluding any useful helps , that we always suppose them . the s●m then of what he is to confute , is this ▪ that although the apostles and evangelists did deliver the mind of god to the world in their writings , in order to the salvation of mankind , although they were inspired by an infinite wisdom for this end , although all things simply necessary to salvation are contained in their writings , although a person useth his sincere endeavour by all moral helps , and the divine grace assisting him to find out in these writings the things necessary to salvation , yet after all he cannot certainly understand the meaning of them . which to me appears so absurd and monstrous a doctrine , so contrary to the honour of the scriptures and the design of christianity , that if i had a mind to disparage it , i would begin with this and end with transubstantiation . for in earnest sir , did not our saviour speak intelligibly in matte●s of so great importance to the salvation of mankind ? did he not declare all that was necessary for that end , in his many admirable discourses ? did not the evangelists record his words and actions in writing , and that as one of them saith expresly , that we might believe that iesus is the christ , the son of god , and that believing we might have life through his name ? and after all this , cannot we understand so much as the common necessaries to salvation by the greatest and most sincere endeavour for that end ? but it is time now to consider his exceptions against this principle : which are these . . that god may reveal his mind so in scripture as that in many things it may be clear only to some persons more versed in the scriptures , and in the churches traditional sense of them , and more assisted from above according to their imployment ; which persons he hath appointed to instruct the rest . but what is all this to our purpose ? our question is not about may be 's , and possibilities of things , but it is taken for granted on both sides , that god hath revealed his mind in writing ; therefore he need not make the supposition of no writings at all , as he doth afterwards : the question is , whether these writings being allowed for divine revelations of the will of god , he hath expressed the necessaries to salvation clearly therein or not ? that god may delivers his mind obscurely in many things , is no question ; nor that he may inspire persons to unfold his mind , where it is obscure ; but our question is , whether or no these writings being acknowledged to contain the will of god , it be agreeable with the nature of the design and the wisdom and goodness of god for such writings not to be capable of being understood in all things necessary to salvation , by those who sincerely endeavour to understand them ? but when i had expresly said , things necessary for salvation , why doth he avoid that which the dispute was about , and only say many things in stead of it ? i do not doubt but there are many difficult places of scripture , as there must be in any ancient writings penned in an idiom so very different from ours . but i never yet saw one difficulty removed by the pretended infallible guides of the church ; all the help we have had , hath been from meer fallible men of excellent skill in languages , history , and chronology , and of a clear understanding ; and we should be very unthankful not to acknowledge the great helps we have had from them , for understanding the difficult places of scripture : but for the infallible guides , they have dealt by the obscurities of scripture , as the priest and the levi●e in our saviours parable , did by the wounded man , they have fairly passed them by , and taken no care of them . if these guides did believe themselves infallible , they have made the least use of their talent that ever men did ; they have laid it up in a napkin , and buried it in the earth , for nothing of it ever appeared above ground . how could they have obliged the world more , ( nay , it had been necessary to have done it for the use of their gift ) than to have given an infallible sense of all controverted places ; and then there had been but one dispute left , whether they were infallible or not ? but now , supposing we believe their infallibility , we are still as far to seek , for the meaning of many difficult places . and supposing god had once bestowed this gift of infallibility upon the guides of the church , he might most justly deprive them of it , because of the no use they have made of it ; and we might have great reason to believe so from our saviours words , to him that hath shall be given , but from him that hath not , shall be taken away even that which he hath . so that not making use of this talent of infallibility , gives us just reason to question , whether god continues it , supposing he had once given it to the guides of the church , since the apostles days : which i see no reason to believe . . his next exception is from a saying of dr. fields , who , he saith , seems to advance a contrary principle in his preface to his books of the church . but o the mischief of common-place-books ! which make men write what they find , and not what is to their purpose . for after all , dr. field doth but seem to advance another principle in his opinion , and doth not so much as seem to do it in mine . for that learned and judicious writer sets himself purposely to disprove the infallibility of the church in the beginning of his fourth book ; and is it probable that any man of common understanding would assert that in his preface , which he had disproved in his book ? it is a known distinction in the church of rome of the church virtual , representative and essential ; by the two first are meant popes and councils ; and of these two , dr. field saith , that they may erre in matters of greatest consequence ; yet these are n. o's . infallible guides , whose conduct he supposeth men obliged to follow , and to yield their internal assent to . concerning the essential church , he saith , that it either comprehends all the faithful that are and have been since christ appeared in the flesh ; and then , he saith , it is absolutely free from all errour and ignorance of divine things , that are to be known by revelations ; or as it comprehends only all those believers that are and have been since the apostles times ; and in this sense , he saith , the whole church may be ignorant in sundry things , which are not necessary to salvation ; but he thinks it impossible for the whole church to erre in anything of this nature . but in things that cannot be clearly deduced from the rule of faith , and word of divine and heavenly truth , we think it possible , that all that have written of such things might erre and be deceived . but if the church be taken only as it comprehends the believers that now are , and presently live in the world , he saith , it is certain and agreed upon , that in things necessary to be known and believed expresly and distinctly , it never is ignorant , much less doth erre . yea in things that are not absolutely necessary to be known and believed expresly and distinctly , we constantly believe that this church can never erre , nor doubt pertinaciously , but that there shall ever be some found ready to embrace the truth , if it be manifested to them , and such as shall not wholly neglect the search and enquiry after it , as times and means give leave . but if we mean by a church , any particular church , he determines , that particular men and churches may erre damnably , because notwithstanding others may worship god aright ; but that the whole church at one time cannot so erre , for that then the church should cease utterly for a time , and so not be catholick being not at all times ; and christ should sometimes be without a church ; yet , that errors not prejudicing the salvation of them that erre may be found in the church , that is at one time in the world , we make no doubt ; only the symbolical and catholick which is and was being wholly free from error . which several expressions amount to no more than this , that there will be always some true christians in the world ; but what is this to infallible teachers and guides , in a church that pretends to be catholick against all the sense and reason in the world ? and is it now imaginable after all this , that dr. field should make any particular church infallible ? no , all that he means in his preface , is this , that among all the societies of men , persons who have not leisure or capacity to examine particular controversies , ought diligently to search which is the true church , and having done this , to embrace her communion , follow her directions , and rest in her judgment , i.e. suppose a man by that very book of dr. fields should be convinced that the church of rome is a very corrupt and tyrannical church , and the church of england is a sound and good church ( which was the design of his writing it , ) he being thus far satisfied , ought to embrace the communion of this church , and so follow her directions , and rest in her judgment , so , as not to forsake her communion for any cavils that are raised about particular controversies of which he is not a capable judge . and doth this make the church of england infallible ? if we say that a man being first satisfied of the skill and integrity of a lawyer , ought to follow his directions , and rest in his judgment ; doth this make that lawyer infallible ? so we say here , the resting in the judgment of a church , of whose integrity we have assurance before-hand , implies only the supposition of so much honesty and skill in a church , as may over-rule the judgments of persons who either have not leisure or capacity to understand particular controversies which require skill in languages , search into the fathers and later writers on both sides . if we say , that unlearned persons ought in such things to trust the learned , whose integrity they have no ground to suspect , this doth not certainly make the more learned infallible ? but we may rest in the judgment of those whom we have no reason to suspect , though we believe them not to be infallible : and it was the former dr. field meant , and by no means any infallibility , unless he plainly contradict himself . . he excepts , that this brings in an inerrability of every particular christian in all points necessary , if such christians will , that is , ●f only they shall sincerely endeavour to know the meaning of them . the force of this argument will be easily discerned if we put another parallel to it , viz. that they who assert from scripture the assistance of divine grace to the sincere endeavours of men , do make all men imp●ccable if they will ; as well as those who assert , that god will not be wanting in necessaries to salvation to those who sincerely endeavour to know them , make all such men so far infallible , if they will. if any one thing be plain in scripture , the goodness of god is ; and who can believe that , and yet think that he will suffer those who sincerely endeavour to know what is necessary to their salvation , not to understand it ? but besides , how often doth the scripture promise a greater degree of knowledge to the meek and humble , to the diligent and industrious ; to those that ask and seek wisdom from him , to those that do the will of god , to whom our saviour hath expresly promised , that they shall know of his doctrine , whether it be of god or no ? and if this be the inerrability he means , he sees what grounds we have to assert it . but we understand not by it , that such persons cannot erre in their judgments about what things are necessary , and what not ; nor that they cannot erre in other things which are not so necessary to salvation ; but that gods goodness is so great , and his promises so plain , and his word so clear in necessary things , that no one who sincerely endeavours to know them , shall ever miss of salvation . and if such an infallibility will satisfie them , we do not deny it to popes themselves , or other guides of the church , on condition they do not think themselves infallible beyond these bounds ; for they are only the meek and humble whom god hath promised to teach his way , and not such who will be infallible whether god will or no. his other exceptions from this principle destroying church-authority , from the parity of reason for church governors , and the controverted places of scripture shall be considered afterwards . . i now come to examine what certainty there is for this infallibility ? here i shall lay down some principles of common reason , by which we may better understand the force of his arguments . . that the proof ought always to be more evident than the thing that is to be proved by it . for otherwise it is of no advantage to the proof of it , if it have but the same degree of evidence ; but is a great prejudice to it , if it have less : so that if the proofs of infallibility be equally obscure and difficult with those things which are to be believed by virtue of it , this infallibility is of no use ; but if they be less evident , the pretence of it is both very ridiculous and prejudicial to the christian faith. . the greater concernment any law is of , and the greater danger in mistaking the meaning of it , the more plain and distinct ought the terms of that law to be . as a law about the succession of the crown ought to be framed with all the clearness and distinctness imaginable , because the peace and security of a nation depends upon it . so in case christ hath appointed any successor in the government of his church , or entailed infallibility upon the guides of it : this being a matter of such infinite concernment to the whole church ; it is most unreasonable to conceive that whatever other parts of his will were obscure , those which relate to the matter of succession and infallibility , should be so ; but rather so plain , that no one can miss of understanding them , because the weight of all the rest depends upon these two ; and it is so horrible a presumption in any to pretend to them , in case they have no right to them , and the danger so great in relying upon them if there be no such thing . . a law of such universal concernment to the faith and peace of the christian church being supposed , the practice of the best and purest● ages of the church must be supposed agreeable thereto , i. e. that in all matters of difference they did constantly own these infallible judges , by appealing to them for a final issue of all debates , and resting satisfied with their decisions . but if on the contrary , when great differences have happened in and nearest the first times , no such authority was made use of , but other ways put in practice to make an end of them ; if when it was pretended , it was slighted and rejected ; nay , if the persons pretending it , were proceeded against and condemned , and this not by a popular faction , but by just and legal authority ; we may thence conclude that such judges have arrogated that power to themselves , which was not given them by the supreme legislator . these things being premised , i come to his particular arguments , which lie scattered●up and down ; but to give them the greater strength , i shall bring them nearer together . and they are drawn either from scripture , or tradition , or parity of reason . . from scripture . and in truth the only satisfactory argument in a matter of so great concernment to the christian church , ought only to be drawn from thence , unless we will suppose the scripture defective in the most important things . for this being pleaded as a thing necessary for the peace of the church by some , and for the faith of christians by others ; so much greater the necessity of it is , so much clearer ought the evidence of it to be in scripture , supposing that to be intended to reveal the will of god to us in matters of the greatest necessity . but it cannot be denied by our adversaries , that the places produced by them for a constant infallibility in the guides of the church , do not necessarily prove it ; because they are very capable of being understood , as to the infallibility only of the apostles in the first age and foundation of the christian church : is it then to be imagined that if christ had intended such an infallibility as the foundation of the faith and peace of his church , he would not have delivered his mind more plainly and clearly than he is pretended to do in this matter ? how easily might all the contentions of the christian world have been prevented , if christ had caused it to be delivered in terms so clear , as the nature of the thing doth require ? if he had said , i do promise my infallible spirit to the guides of the church in all ages , to give the true sense of scripture in all controversies which shall arise among christians , and i expect an obedience suitably to all their determinations : or , more particularly , i appoint the bishops of rome in all ages for my successors in the government of the church , who shall be the standing and infallible iudges of all controversies among christians ; this dispute might never have happened among us . for we assure them that we account the peace of the church so valuable a thing , and obedience to christs commands so necessary a duty , that we are well enough inclined to embrace the doctrine of infallibility , if we could see any ground in scripture for it . but we cannot make persons infallible by believing them to be so , but we may easily make our selves fools , as others have done , by believing it without reason . the controversie then is not , whether infallibility in the guides of the church be a desirable thing or not , for so we say impeccability is too ; but the question is , whether there be any such thing promised by christ to the guides of his church , and whether all christians on that account are bound to yield their internal assent , as well as external obedience to all their decrees ? which we deny , and desire to see it clearly proved from his words who alone could grant this infallibility . for if an infallible judge be therefore necessary , because the scripture is not sufficiently clear for ending of controversies , and that god hath actually constituted such a judge , cannot be proved but by scripture , surely we have all the reason in the world to expect that the scripture should be abundantly , and beyond all contradiction clear in this point , to make amends for its obscurity in the rest : for if this point be not clearly proved , we are never the nearer an end of controversies : because the business stops at the very head , and they may beg their hearts out , before we shall ever be so good natured as to grant it them without proof . and they who have been so bold ( shall i say ? or blasphemous ) as to charge our lord with want of discretion , in case he have not provided his church with such an infallible judge , do certainly render him much more obnoxious to this imputation , in supposing him to have constituted such a judge , if he have no where plainly declared that he hath done so . and let them , if they can , produce one clear text of scripture to this purpose , which by the unanimous consent of the fathers is so interpreted ; and which , to the common sense of mankind , is more sufficiently clear for the ending this controversie , than the scripture is said by them to be in other necessary points of faith. and till they have done this , according to their own way of arguing , we have as much reason to deny their infallibility , as they have to demand our assent to it , upon the presumed obscurity and insufficiency of scripture . when i came thus prepared to find what the considerator would produce in a matter of such consequence , i soon discerned how little mind he had to insist upon any proofs of that , which is his only engine to overthrow my principles . for after the most diligent search i could make , the only argument from scripture i found produced , was from the old testament , ( where i confess i least looked for it ) but however , this is thought so considerable as to be twice produced ; and yet is so unlucky , that if i understand any thing of the force of it , it p●oves the judges in westminster hall to be infallible , rather than the pope , or any guide of the christian church . for the force of the argument lies in gods appointing iudges under the law , according to whose sentence matters were to be determined , upon penalty of death in case of disobedience . but what then ? doth this imply infallibility ? no , that he dares not stand to , but absolute obedience , ; which we are ready to yield when we see the like absolute command for ecclesiastical judges of controversies of religion , as there was among the iews for their supreme iudges in matters of law. but of this place i have already spoken at large , and shewed how impertinently it is produced for infallibility in the book , he often referrs to , and might , if he had thought fit , have answered what is there said before he had urged it again , without any new strength added to it . but since he produces no other proof for it , i must consider how he goes about to weaken mine against it . two things i insisted upon against such a pretence of infallibility , viz. that such a pretence implying an infallible assistance of the spirit of god , there were but two ways of proving it , either , . by such miracles as the apostles wrought to attest their infallibility , or . by those scriptures from whence this infallibility is derived . concerning both these i laid down two propositions . . concerning the proof by miracles . the proposition was this . there can be no more intollerable usurpation on the faith of christians than for any person or society of men to pretend to an assistance as infallible in what they propose , as was in christ or his apostles , without giving an equal degree of evidence that they are so assisted as christ and his apostles did , viz. by miracles as great , publick , and convincing as theirs were ; by which i mean such as are wrought by those very persons who challenge this infallibility , and with a design for the conviction of those who do not believe it . to this he answers : . that i am equally obliged to produce miracles for the churches infallibility in fundamentals , which i had asserted in the defence of the archbishop . but this admits a very easie answer ; for when i speak of infallibility in fundamentals , i there declare that i mean no more by it , than that there shall be always a number of true christians in the world. and what necessity is there now of miracles for men to believe , since they receive the doctrine of the gospel upon those miracles by which it was at first attested . neither is there any need of miracles to shew that any number of men are not guilty of an actual errour in what they believe , supposing they declare to believe only on the account of that divine revelation which is owned by christians ; for in this case the trial of doctrine is to be by scripture . but in case any persons challenge an infallibility to themselves antecedently to the belief of scriptures , and by vertue of which , they say , men must believe the scriptures , then i say such persons are equally bound to prove their infallibility by miracles as the apostles were . . not resting in this , he proceeds to another answer , the sum of which is , that the infallibility of the church not being so large or so high as the apostles , but consisting only in the infallible delivery of the same doctrine , there is no necessity of miracles in the present church . to this i answer , that the doctrine of the gospel may be said to be new two ways ; . in respect of the matter contained in it , and so it was new only when it was first revealed . . in respect of the person who is to believe it : so it is new in every age to those who are first brought to believe it . now the apostles had their infallibility attested by miracles , not barely with a respect to the revelation of new matter , for then none would have needed miracles but christ himself , or the apostles that made the first sermons ; for afterwards the matter was not new , but the necessity of miracles was to give a sufficient motive to believe , to all those to whom the gospel was proposed ; and therefore miracles are said to be a a sign to unbelievers . for by these , unbelievers were convinced that there was sufficient ground for receiving the doctrine of the gospel on the authority of those who delivered it ; god himself bearing them witness with divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost . suppose then , any of the apostles after their first preaching continued only to inculcate the same doctrine for the conversion of more unbelievers ; in this case the evidence of miracles was the reason of relying on the authority of those persons for the truth of the doctrine delivered by them . from whence it follows , that where the christian faith is to be received on the authority of any persons in any age , those persons ought to confirm that authority by miracles , as the apostles did . for without this , there can be no such authority whereon to rely , antecedently to the embracing the christian faith. now , this is the case of the church of rome they pretend not to deliver any doctrine wholly new , but what was one way or another delivered by christ and his apostles ; ( although we therein charge them with fraud and falshood ) but yielding this , yet they contend that no man can have sufficient ground for believing the word of god , but from their churches infallibility ; in this case it is plain that they make their churches infallibility to be as much the reason of persons believing , as the infallibility of the apostles in their time was ; and therefore i say , they ought to prove this infallibility in the same way , and by miracles , as great , publick , and convincing , as the apostles did . . yet he is very loath to let go the miracles of their church , done in later times as well as formerly . it would be too large a task in this place to examine the miracles of the roman church , ( that may be better done on another occasion , ) all that i have here to say is , that all the miracles pretended among them , signifie nothing to our present purpose , unless those miracles give evidence of the authority and infallibility of those by whom they were done ; and they would do well to shew , where ever in scripture god did bestow a gift of miracles upon any but for this end : and what reason there is that god should alter the method and course of his providence , in a matter of so great concernment to the faith of mankind . such miracles as were wrought by christ and his apostles we defie all other religions in the world to produce any like them to confirm their doctrine ; but such as the church of rome pretends , scarce any religion in the world but hath pretended to the same . and for his most credible histories he vouches for them , i hope he doth not mean the church history written by s. c. nor any other such legends among them ; if he doth , i assure him they have a very easie faith that think them credible . and if all miracles that are so called , by those among whom they are done , be an argument , as he saith , of the security of salvation in the communion and faith of that church wherein they are done , i hope he will be so just , to allow the same to the arrians , novatians , donatists , and others , who all pretend to miracles as well as the church of rome , as any one that is versed in church-history may easily see . but of this more at large elsewhere . . concerning the proof of infallibility from scripture , i said down this proposition . nothing can be more absurd , than to pretend the necessity of such an infallible commission and assistance to assure us of the truth of those writings , and to interpret them ; and at the same time to prove that commission from those writings from which we are told , nothing can be certainly deduced , such an assistance not being supposed ; or to pretend that infallibility in a body of men , is not as liable to doubts and disputes , as in those books from whence only they derive their infallibility . he grants the former part of this , if by it be intended to prove such commission only , or in the first place from these writings . but , he saith , a christians faith may begin either at the infallible authority of scriptures , or of the church : it seems then , there may be sufficient ground for a christians faith , as to the scriptures , without believing any thing of the churches infallibility ; and for this we have reason to thank him , whatever they of his own church think of it . for , by this concession we may believe the scriptures authority , without ever believing a word of the churches infallibility ; and let them afterwards prove it from scripture if they can . nay he goes yet farther , and saith , that the infallibility of scriptures as well as the church may be proved from its own testimony : but he first supposes , that the infallibility of one of these , be first learnt from tradition . and therefore in the remainder of his discourse on this subject , he shews how the infallibility of the church may be proved from tradition not shewing at all how the infallibility of the church can be proved from scripture . scripture being thus deserted , as to the proof of the churches infallibility , i must pursue him to his other hold of tradition . the method of his discourse is this ; that the infallibility of the guides of the church was antecedent to the scriptures ; that the apostles did not lose their infallibility by committing what they preached to writing ; that their successors were to have this infallibility preserved in them , if there had been no writings ; and cannot be imagined to have lost it because of them , because these give testimony to it ; that this infallibility is preserved by tradition descending from age to age , as we say the canon of scripture is delivered to us ; and lastly , that the governours of the church always held and reputed themselves infallible , appears by their anathematizing dissenters . in this discourse there are some things supposed without reason , and other things asserted without proof . the foundation of all this discourse proceeds upon the supposition that the same infallibility which was in the apostles , must be continued in their successors through all ages of the church , for which i see not the least shadow of reason produced . yes , saith he , supposing there had been no writings , and no infallibility , christian religion would have been no rational and well grounded , no stable and certain religion . two things in answer to this , i desire to be informed of : . what he thinks of the religion of the patriarchs , who received their religion by tradition , without any such infallibility ? . what he thinks of those christians who receive the scriptures or churches infallibility by vertue of common and universal tradition ( which is certainly the ground of the one , and supposed by him to be of the other ) whether the faith of such persons be rational and well-grounded , stable , and certain , or not ; if it be , then there is no such necessity of infallibility for that purpose ; if it be not , then he doth hereby declare that the faith of christians is irrational and ill-grounded . for whatsoever is received on the account of tradition antecedent to the belief of infallibility , cannot be received on the account of it ; but the belief of either scriptures or churches infallibility , must be first received by vertue of a principle antecedent to the scriptures or churches infallibility , viz. tradition . by this it appears , that his very way of proving , destroys the thing he would prove by it : for if the tradition may be a sufficient ground of faith , how comes infallibility to be necessary ? but if this infallibility be not necessary without the scriptures , much less certainly is it now , since it is acknowledged on both sides , that the apostles were infallible in their writings , and that therein the will of god is contained as to all things simply necessary to salvation . but these successors of the apostles were not deprived of their infallibility by the apostles writings ; no certainly , for none can be deprived of what they never had ; but where are the reasons all this while , to shew that there was the same necessity of infallibility in the apostles successors , as was in them ? two i find rather intimated than insisted upon . . that the church would otherwise have failed , if there had been neither writings nor infallibility ; but if this argument hold for any thing , it is for the necessity of the scriptures , and not of infallibility ; for we see god did furnish the church with one , and left no footsteps of the other . we do not dispute how far the church might have been preserved without the scriptures , we find it hath been hard enough to preserve it pure with them : but we always acknowledge the infinite wisdom and goodness of god , that hath not left us in matters of faith and salvation to the determinations of men liable to be corrupted by interest and ambition , but hath appointed men inspired by himself to set down whatever is necessary for us to believe and practise . and upon these writings we fix our faith , as on a firm and unmovable rock ; and on the veracity of god therein contained and expressed , we build all our hopes of a blessed eternity . and one great benefit more we have by these divine books , that by them we can so easily discover the fraud and imposture of the confident pretenders to infallibility . which is the true reason why the patrons of the church of romes infallibility have so little kindness for the scriptures , and take all occasions to disparage them , by insinuating that they are good for nothing but to breed heresies in the heads of the people ; upon pretence of which danger , they hide this candle under a bushel , lest it should give too much light to them that are in the house , and discover some things which it is more convenient to keep in the dark . . he saith , the infallibility of the apostles successors , receives a second evidence from the testimony thereof found also in these writings . i confess i have seen nothing like the first evidence yet , to which this should be a second ; but if by the first be meant that which i mentioned before , this is a proper second for it . neither of them , i dare say , intend any mischief to any body ; both first and second are forced into the field , where they stand only for dumb shews , and wonder what they are brought for . but whereabouts i pray doth this second testimony stand ? what are its weapons ? i hope not dic ecclesiae , nor dabo tibi claves , nor any of the old rusty armour which our modern combatants begin to be ashamed to appear with in the field . and to speak truth , n. o. seems to understand his art better than to meddle with such heavy and antique armour , which every one hath been foiled with that hath undertaken to combat with them ; only it seems a little for the credit of their cause to point to such a magazine , which in the days of ignorance and credulity , the romantick age of the church , was in great request . but we must now buckle our selves to a new manner of combat , which is from the tradition of the church , and that of the very same nature with what we have for the canon of scripture . this i confess is bright shining armour , and may do great service if it will hold ; but that must be judged upon trial , which i now set my self to . but we shall find that no weapons formed against truth can prosper : and it hath been long observed of rome that it could never endure a close siege . the question now is , whether they of the roman church have the same universal tradition for the infallibility of the guides of it , w ch we have for the canon of scripture ? w ch he asserts . it is i suppose agreed on both sides , that the tradition on w ch we receive and believe the scriptures to be the word of god was universal as to all ages and times of the church ; that from the beginning all disputes in religion among true christians , were built upon the supposition of it ; that in no age any persons were allowed to be good christians who made doubt of it ; that every age doth afford plentiful testimonies of the belief of it . this is that universal tradition we receive the scriptures upon ; and let any thing like this be produced for the infallibility of the guides of their church , and we yield up the cause to them . can any fairer terms than these be desired ? but we expect proofs , and so i perceive we may do to the worlds end . i commend the ingenuity of n. o. for endeavouring to escape out of the circle any way ; but i believe they think themselves as wise , who still dance within it , knowing the impossibility of doing any good in this other way . the only argument he insists upon is so weak , that i wonder he had not considered how often it had been answered by their own writers . for it is certain that provincial councils as well as general , have anathematized dissenters , and pronounced them hereticks , which is his only argument to prove this tradition of the churches infallibility ; and they had no way to answer it , but by saying , this doth not imply their infallibility . and if it doth not in the case of provincial councils ; why should he think it doth in the case of general ? for the anathema's of provincial councils did not relate to the acceptation of their decrees , either by the pope , or the whole church , as n. o. supposes , but did proceed upon their own assurance of the truth of what they decreed ; otherwise their anathema's would have been only conditional , and not absolute and peremptory as we see they were . but i need give no other answer to this argument than in the words of dr. field whom n. o. appealed to before , viz. that councils denounce anathema not because they think every one that disobeyeth the decree of the council to be accursed , but because they are perswaded in particular , that this is the eternal truth of god which they propose , therefore they accurse them that obstinately shall resist , as st. paul willeth every christian man to anathematize an angel coming from heaven , if he shall teach him any other doctrine than he hath already learned : yet is not every particular christian free from possibility of erring . if the argument then were good from anathematizing dissenters , and calling them hereticks , every particular person must by it be proved infallible ; who are bound to anathematize even angels from heaven in case of delivering any other doctrine from the gospel ; so that this , which is his only argument in stead of proving an universal tradition would prove an universal infallibility . let the reader now judge in his conscience , whether here be any thing offered in the way of tradition for the churches infallibility , that may bear the least proportion with the tradition on which we receive the scriptures ? and yet if this had been true , it had been almost impossible that any one age should have passed without remarkable testimonies of it . for no age of the church hath been so happy as not to have occasion for an infallible judge of controversies , if any such had been appointed by christ : and therefore it cannot be imagined , but that christians must in all controversies arising have appealed to him , and stood to his determinations ; which must have been as well known in the practice of the church , as judges trying causes in westminster hall. but i challenge him to produce any one age since the apostles times to this day , wherein the infallibility of a standing judge of controversies appointed by christ , hath been received by as universal a consent as the authority of scripture hath been in that very age. nay , i except not that age which hath been since the council of trent ; for the scriptures of the new testament have been received of all sides , but the infallibility of a standing judge is utterly denied by one side , and vehemently disputed between several parties on the other . some making only the essential church infallible , others the representative in councils , others again the virtual , viz. the pope . and supposing any infallible judge necessary ; it stands to reason it should be rather in one than in a multitude , and rather in a constant succession of bishops in one see , than in an uncertain number who cannot be convened together as often as the necessities of the church may require . but this is so far from being received as an universal tradition in that very age wherein we live , that onely one busie party in the roman church do maintain it , many others eagerly opposing it , and all the princes and states in christendom do in their actions , if not in words , deny it . and is not this now an universal tradition fit to be matched with that of the scriptures ? i had once thought to have brought testimonies o●t of every age of the christian church manifestly disproving any such tradition of infallibility ; and that not only of private persons when there were no councils , but from the most solemn acts of councils , and the confession of their own writers ; but that would swell this answer to too great a bulk , and is not needful where so very little is offered for the proof of it . and yet i shall be ready to do it , when any thing more important requires it . i now return to his exceptions against the latter part of the former proposition , viz. that infallibility in a body of men , is as liable to doubts and disputes , as in those books from whence only they derive their infallibility . the plain meaning of which is , that it is a foolish thing to make use of a medium as uncertain as the thing which is to be proved by it ; and therefore if the infallibility of the the church be as liable to doubts and disputes as that of the scriptures , it is against all just laws of reasoning to make use of the churches infallibility to prove the scriptures by . and to this no answer can be proper , but either by saying that there is no absurdity in such a way of proving ; or else that the infallibility of the church is more certain and evident than that of the scriptures . which i should be glad to see undertaken by any man who pretends to sense ; which n. o. doth too much to meddle with it ; and therefore fairly shuffles it off , and turns my words quite to another meaning , as though they had been spoken of the doubtful sense of the decrees of councils , which although elsewhere i had sufficient reason to speak of , yet that was not pertinent to this place . but this was a way to escape by saying something , though not at all to the purpose ; and yet he gives no sufficient answer to that sense he puts upon my words , by bringing a commentary upon them out of words used by me in another discourse . wherein i did at large argue against the infallibility of general councils , and after disproving it in general , i undertook to prove , that no man can have any certainty of faith as to the decrees of any council ; because men can have no certainty of faith that this was a general council , that it passed such decrees , that it proceeded lawfully in passing them , and that this is the certain meaning of them ; all which are necessary in order to the believing those decrees to be infallible with such a faith as they call divine . the words produced by him do speak of the doubtful sense and meaning of the decrees of councils , by which i shew that men can have no more certainty of the meaning of them , than of doubtful places of scripture , not as though i supposed it impossible for councils to give a clear decision in matters of controversie , so as that men might understand their meaning ; but i expresly mention such decrees as are purposely framed in general terms , and with ambiguous expressions pressions to give satisfaction to the several dissenting parties ; for which i instanced in some of the council of trent , whose ambiguity is most manifest by the disputes about their meaning raised by some who were present at the making of them . i am far enough from denying that a commentary may make a text plainer , or that a iudges sentence can be clearer than the law ; or that any council can , or hath decided any thing clearer than the thing that is in controversie ; which are his exceptions : but i say , if councils pretend to do more than the scriptures , and to decide controversies for the satisfaction of the world , and that men ought to have that certainty of faith by them , which they cannot have by the scriptures , they ought never to be liable to the same ambiguity and obscurity upon the account of which the scripture is rejected from being a certain rule of faith. for , as he saith well , infallibility alone ends not controversies , but clearness ; clearness in the point controverted : which if councils want , they are as unfit to end controversies as the scriptures can be pretended to be . but this is not the thing intended by me in this proposition and therefore it needs no farther answer ; for the only subject of that proposition , is the infallibility of the church , and not the clearness of the decrees of councils . but i cannot admire the ingenuity of this way of answering me , by putting another sense upon my words than they will bear ; and by drawing words out of another discourse , without shewing the purpose for which they are there used , and leaving out the most material passages which tended to the clearing of them . if n. o. thinks fit to oppose that whole discourse against the infallibility of general councils , and set down fairly the several arguments , i should be then too blame not to return a just answer : but i am not bound to follow him in such strange excursions , from the . proposition of this book to a single passage in a larger book , and from that back to another at a mighty distance in the same book ; which being dismembred from the body of the discourse , must needs lose much of their strength . yet with all the disadvantage he takes them ( which is such , that the best book in the world may be confuted in that manner ) he hath no great cause to glory in the execution he hath done upon them . in answer to my lord of canterburies adversary , who boasted of the unity of the roman church : because whatever the private opinions of men are , they are ready to submit their judgments to the censure and determination of the church , i had said , that this will hold as well or better for our unity as theirs , because all men are willing to submit their judgments to scripture , which is agreed on all sides to be infallible . against these words thus taken alone n. o. spends two or three pages ; which might have been spared , if he had but fairly expressed what immediately follows them in these words . if you say it cannot be known what scripture determines , but it may be easily what the church defines : it is easily answered , that the event shews it to be far otherwise , for how many disputes are there concerning the power of determining matters of faith ? to whom it belongs , in what way it must be managed , whether parties ought to be heard in matters of doctrine , what the meaning of the decrees are when they are made , which raise as many divisions as were before them ; as appears by the decrees of the council of trent , and the later of pope innocent relating to the five propositions ; so that upon the whole it appears setting aside force and fraud , which are excellent principles of christian unity , we are upon as fair terms of union as they are among themselves . i do not therefore say , that the church of rome hath no advantage at all in point of unity , but that all the advantage it hath , comes from force and fraud , and setting these aside , we are upon as good terms of union as they ; and we do not envy them the effects of tyranny and deceit . it is the union of christians we contend for , and not of slaves or fools ; we leave the turk and the pope to vie with each other in this kind of unity , ( although i believe the turk hath much the advantage in it ) and i freely yield to n. o. that they have a juster pretence to vnity without truth than we . which is agreeable to what he pleads for , that they are more united in opinion than we ; united in opinion , i say , true or false , saith he , here matters not ; we speak here of vnion not of truth . this and the following of tyranny , which we complain of , are the two fairest pleas for their vnion i ever met with . but this is not a place to examine the pretences to unity on both sides , that i have at large done in a whole chapter in the late book , and if n. o. had intended any thing to purpose against me on this subject , he ought much rather to have fallen on a just discourse than two such lame clauses as he makes these to be by his citation of them . and when he doth that , he may hear more of this subject ; in the mean time infallibility is our business . and therefore i proceed to the third argument made use of by n. o. for the proof of infallibility in the guides of the church , which is from parity of reason . because , i say , that it is repugnant to the nature of the design , and the wisdom and goodness of god to give infallible assurance to persons , in writing his will for the benefit of mankind , if those writings may not be understood by all persons who sincerely endeavour to know the meaning of them in all such things as are necessary to their salvation ; from hence he inferrs , that if every christian may become thus infallible in necessaries , from . a clear rule . . a due industry used ; . and a certainty that it is so used ; may not the church-governours still much rather be allowed infallible , and so retain still their infallible guideship ; and the people also , the more clear the rule of faith is proved to be , the more securely be referred to their direction ? and have we not all reason to presume that the chief guides of the church ( even a general council of them , or if it be but a major part of this council , 't is sufficient ) in their consults concerning a point necessary to salvation delivered in scripture , use at least so much endeavour ( for more needs not ) as a plain rustick doth , to understand the meaning of it , and also the like sincerity ? for what they define for others , they define for themselves also , and their salvation is as much concerned as any other mans is , in their mistakes . and next , why may not these governours upon such certainty of a sincere endeavour and clearness of the rule take upon them to define these points and enjoyn an assent to and belief of them to their subjects ; especially since it is affirmed that all those from whom they require such obedience , if they please to use a sincere endeavour may be certain thereof as well as they ? and are we not here again arrived at church-infallibility , if not from extraordinary divine assistance , only sincere endeavour being supposed ? and thus doe not his conditional infallibility of particular persons in necessaries , the condition being so easie , necessarily inferr a moral impossibility of the churches erring in them ; especially those necessaries being contracted to the apostles creed , as it is by some . to lay open the weakness of this discourse , which appears fair and plausible at first view , i shall give an account of these two things . . what infallibility i attribute to private persons . . how far the parity of reason will extend to the infallibility of the guides of the church . . as to the infallibility by me attributed to private persons ; no such thing can be inferred from my words ; and i wish n. o. would have kept to my own expressions , and not foisted in that term of infallibility , without which all his discourse would have betrayed its own weakness . for take the terms which i laid down , and apply them to the guides of the church , and see what a mighty infallibility springs from them . for if it be repugnant to the nature of the design , and to the wisdom and goodness of god to give infallible assurance to persons in writing his will for the benefit of mankind , if those writings may not be understood by all persons who sincerely endeavour to know the meaning of them in all such things as are necessary for their salvation , how doth it hence follow that the guides of the church must be infallible in teaching matters of faith ? if i had asserted that particular persons were infallible in determining what was true , and what not ; then i grant the argument would have much more held for those whose office it is to guide and direct others . but what he means by mens being infallible in necessaries , i do not well understand ; for it is capable of three several meanings : . that either men are infallible in judging of necessaries to salvation ; . or , that men are infallible in teaching others what art necessaries to salvation . or . that men are infallible in believing such things as are necessary to salvation , i. e. that such is the goodness of god , and the clearness of scriptures , that no man who sincerely desires to know what is necessary to salvation shall be deceived therein ; and what is this any more than to assert that god will not be wanting in necessaries to mankind ; and although i know no reason for using the term of infallibility thus applied , yet the thing it self i assert in that sense , but in neither of the other : and what now can be inferred from hence by a parity of reason , but that the guides of the church , supposing the same sincerity shall enjoy the same priviledge , which i know none ever denied them ; but what is this to their infallibility in teaching all matters of faith ? which is the only thing to be proved by him . if he can prove this as necessary for the salvation of mankind as the other is , then he would do something to his purpose , but not otherwise . so that all this discourse proceeds upon a very false way of reasoning from believing to teaching , and from necessaries to salvation , to all matters of faith , which the guides of the church shall propose to men . . but may we not inferr , that if god will not be wanting to particular persons in matters necessary to their salvation , much less will he be wanting to the guides of the church in all matters of faith ? no certainly , unless it be proved that their guidance is the only means whereby men can understand what is necessary to salvation ; which is utterly denied by us , god having otherwise provided for that , by giving so clear a rule in matters necessary , that no man who sincerely endeavours to know such things shall fail therein . but will not the same sincerity in the guides of the church , extend to their knowing and declaring all matters of faith ? this is a thing possible , and supposing god had entrusted them with the infallible delivery of all matters of faith , were not to be questioned ; but that is the thing still in dispute , and is not to be supposed , without proving it by plain evidence from those books which are agreed on both sides to contain the will of god. besides , that no man that is acquainted with the proceedings of the council of trent , will see reason to be over-confident of the sincerity of councils so palpably influenced by the court of rome as that was . but however is it not fit in these matters that particular persons should rather yield to the guidance of others , than to the conduct of their own reason ? which is n. o's . farther argument in this matter , viz. that a fallibility being supposed , it is more fitting to follow prudent and experienced , though fallible persons direction rather than our own . to this i answer in these following particulars . . that god hath entrusted every man with a faculty of discerning truth and falshood ; supposing that there were no persons in the world to direct or guide him . for without this there were no capacity in mankind to be instructed in matters of religion ; and it were to no purpose , to offer any thing to men to be believed , or to perswade them to embrace any religion . to make this plain , i will suppose a person come to years of understanding , not yet professing any particular religion to whom the several religions in the world are proposed by men perswaded of the truth of them , viz. the christian , the jewish , and the mahumetan : he hears the several arguments brought for each of them , and hath no greater opinion of the teachers of one than of another , i desire to know whether this person may not see so much of the truth and excellency of christian religion , above the rest as to choose that and reject all the rest . i hope no one will deny this ; now if a man does here upon his own judgment and reason choose the christian religion , so as firmly to believe it , then god hath given to men such a faculty of judging , that upon the proposal of truth and falshood , he may embrace the true religion and reject the false , and such a faith is acceptable and pleasing to god ; otherwise no man could embrace christianity at first upon good grounds . . this faculty is not taken away , nor men forbidden the exercise of it in the choice of their religion by any principle of the christian religion ; for our saviour himself appealed to the judgement of the persons he endeavored to convince ; he made use of many arguments to perswade them , he directed them in the way of finding out of truth , he reproved those who would not search into the things delivered to them . all which were to no purpose at all , if men were not to continue the exercise of their own judgements about these matters . accordingly we find the apostles appealing to the judgements of private and fallible persons concerning what they said to them , although themselves were infallible , and had the greatest authority over them ; we find them , not bidding the guides of the church p●ove all things and the people held fast that which they delivered them ; but commanding them indifferently to prove all things and hold fast that which is good , i. e. what upon examination they found to be so ; we find those commended , who searched the scriptures daily whether the things proposed to them were so or no. so that we see the christian religion d●th not forbid men the exercise of that faculty of judging , which god hath given to mankind . . the exercise of this faculty was not to cease as●oon as men had embraced the christian doctrine . for the precepts given by the apostles do belong to those who are already christians , and that concerning the matters proposed by their guides ; nay they are expressly commended to try and examin all pretences to infallibility and revelation upon this great reason because there should be many false pretenders to them . beloved believe not every spirit , but try the spirits whether they be of god , for many false prophets are gone out into the world . they are commanded not to believe any other gospel though apostles or an angel from heaven should preach it ; and how should they know whether it were another or the same if they were not to examin and compare them ? they are bid to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints ; it might be a new faith for any thing they could know , if they were not competent judges of what was once delivered : they are frequently charged to beware of seducers and false guides , that should come in the name of christ and his apostles ; they are told , that there should come a falling away and departing from the faith ; and that the time will come when men will not endure sound doctrine , and shall turn away their ears from 〈◊〉 truth and believe fables ; that such shall come with all deceivableness of unrighteousness ; with powers and signs and lying wonders . to what end or purpose are all these things said , if men being once christians are no longer to exercise their own judgements , but deliver them up into the hands of their guides ? what is this , but to put them under a necessity of being deluded when their guides please ? and as our saviour saith , when the blind lead the blind both shall fall into the ditch . . the authority of guides in the church is not absolute and unlimited but confined within certain bounds . which if they transgress they are no longer to be followed . so st. paul saith , if we or an angel from heaven teach any other gospel let him be accursed , so that the apostles themselves though giving the greatest evidence of infallibility were no longer to be followed than they held to the gospel of christ. and they desired no more of their greatest disciples whom they had converted to the christian faith , than to be followers of them as they were of christ , they told them they had no dominion over their faith , although they were far more assisted with an infallible spirit , than any other guides of the church could pretend to be ever since . therefore no present guides , what ever names they go by , ought to usurp such an authority over the minds of men which the apostles themselves did not challenge ; although there were greater reason for men to yield up their minds wholly to their guidance . we are far from denying all reasonable and just authority to be given to the guides of the church ; but we say that their authority not being absolute is con●ined to some known rule ; and where there is a rule for them to proceed by , there is a rule for others to judge of their proceedings ; and consequently men must exercise their judgements about the matters they determin whether they be agreeable to that r●le or n●t . . where the rule by which the guides of the church are to proceed hath determined nothing , there we say the authority of the guides is to be submitted unto . for otherwise , there would be nothing le●t , wherein their authority could be shewn , and others pay obedience to them , on the account of it . therefore we plead for the churches authority in all matters of meer order and decency , in indifferent rites and ceremonies ; and think it an unreasonable thing to 〈◊〉 the govern●u●s of a christian society the priviledge of commanding in things which god hath n●t al● ready determined by his own law. we plead for the respect and reverence which is due to the lawful constituti●ns o● the church whereof we are members ; and 〈◊〉 the just authority of the guides it , in the exercise of that power which is committed to the governours of it ; as the successours of the apostles in their care of the christian church , although not in their infallibility . . we allow a very great authority to the guides of the catholick church in the best times of christianity ; and look upon the concurrent sense of antiquity as an excellent means to understand the mind of scripture in places otherwise doubtful and obscure . we prosess a great reverence to the ancient fathers of the church : but especially when assembled in free and general councils ; we reject the ancient heresies condemned in them ; which we the rather believe to be against the scripture , because so ancient , so wise and so great persons did deliver the contrary doctrine , not only to be the sense of the church in their own time but ever since the apostles . nay we reject nothing that can be proved by an universal tradition from the apostolical times downwards ; but we have so great an opinion of the wisdom and piety of those excellent guides of the church in the primitive times , that we see no reason to have those things forced upon us now , which we offer to prove to be contrary to their doctrine and practice . so that the controversy between us is not about the authority of the guides of the church , but whether the guides of the apostolical and primitive times ought not to have greater authority over us , than those of the present church in things wherein they contradict each other ? this is the true state of the controversy between us ; and all the clamours of rejecting the authority of church guides are vain and impertinent . but we profess to yield greater reverence and submission of mind to christ , and his apostles , than to any guides of the church ever since : we are sure they spake by an infallible spirit , and where they have determined matters of faith or practice , we look upon it as arrogance and presumption in any others to alter what they have declared . and for the ages since , we have a much g●eater esteem for those nea●est the apostolical times and so downwards , till ignorance , ambition , and private interests sway'd too much among those who were called the guides of the church . and that by the confession of those who were members of it at the same time ; which makes us not to wonder that such corruptions of doctrine and practice should then come in : but we do justly wonder at the sincerity of those who would not have them reformed and taken away . . in matters imposed upon us to believe or practise which are repugnant to plain commands of scripture , or the evidence offense , or the grounds of christian religion ; we assert that no authority of the present guides of a church , is to overrule our faith or practice . for there are some things so plain , that no man will be guided by anothers opinion in them ; if any philosopher did think his authority ought to overrule an ignorant mans opinion , in saying the snow which he saw to be white was not so ; i would fain know whether that man did better to believe his eyes or the prudent , experienc'd philosopher ? i am certain , if i destroy the evidence of sense i must overthrow the grounds of christian religion ; and i am as certain if i believe that not to be bread which my senses tell me is so , i must destroy the greatest evidence of sense ; and which is fitter for me , to reject that evidence which assures my christianity to me , or that authority which by its impositions on my faith overthrows the certainty of sense ? we do not say that we are to reject any doctrine delivered in scripture which concerns a being infinitely above our understanding , because we cannot comprehend all things contained in it ; but in matters lyable to sense and the proper objects of it , we must beg pardon if we prefer the grounds of our common christianity before a novel and monstrous figment , hatched in the times of ignorance and barbarism , foster'd by faction , and imposed by tyranny . we find no command so plain in scripture that we must believe the guides of the church in all they deliver , as there is that we must not worship images , that we must pray with understanding , that we must keep to our saviours institution of the lords supper ; but if any guides of a church pretend to an authority to evacuate the force of these laws , we do not so much reject their authority , as prefer gods above them . doth that man destroy the authority of parents , that refuses to obey them , when they command him to commit treason ? that is our case in this matter , supposing such guides of a church which otherwise we are bound to obey , if they require things contrary to a direct command of god , must we prefer their guidance before gods ? if they can prove us mistaken we yield , but till then the question is not , whether the guides of the church must be submitted to rather than our own reason ? but whether gods authority or theirs must be obeyed ? and i would gladly know whether there be not some points of faith , and some parts of our duty , so plain , that no church-authority determining the contrary ought to be obey'd ? . no absolute submission can be due to those guides of a church who have opposed and contradicted each other , and condemned one an●ther for errour and here●y . for then in case of absolute submission a man must yield his assent to contradictions ; and for the same reason that he is to be a catholick at one time , he must be a heretick at another . i hope the guides of the present church pretend to no more infallibility and authority than their predecessours in the same capacity with themselves have had ; and we say they have contradicted the sense of those before them in the matters in dispute between us . yet that is not the thing i now insist upon ; but that these guides of the church have declared each other to be fallible by condemning their opinions and practices ; and by that means have made it necessary for men to believe those not to be infallible , unless both parts of a contradiction may be infallibly true . suppose a man living in the times of the prevalency of arrianism , when almost all the guides of the church declared in favour of it , when several great councils opposed and contradicted that of nice , when pope liberius did subscribe the sirmian confession and communicated with the arrians , what advice would n. o. give such a one if he must not exercise his own judgement , and compare both the doctrines by the rule of scriptures ? must he follow the present guides even the pope himself ? then he must joyn with the the arrians . must he adhere to the nicene council ? but there were more numerous councils which condemned it . what remedy can be supposed in such a case , but that every person must search and examine the several doctrines , according to his best ability , and judge what is best for him to believe and practise ? no answer can be more absurd in this case than that which some give , that liberius only erred in his external profession of faith and not in the belief of it ; for we are now speaking of such as are to be guides to others , and on whose direction they are to rely , which must be something which may be known to them . supposing then , that liberius when he subscribed and joyned with the arrians , was a catholick in his heart this takes as much off from the authority of a guide , as errour would do . for who dare rely upon him who acts against his conscience and believes one way and does another ? would any in the church of rome think it fit to submit themselves to the direction of such persons , whom they were assured , did not believe one word of what they professed ; but joyned in communion with that church only for some temporal ends ? but in truth liberius went so far , that hilary denounces an anathema against him , and all that joyned with him . neither was this the only case of this nature to be supposed ; for the councils of ephesus and chalcedon proving ineffectual for the suppression of the nestorian and eutychian heresies , and rather greater disturbances arising in the church after the later of these , because the writings of theodorus of mopsuestia and theodoret against cyril , and of ibas to maris the p●rsian not being therein condemned which were suppo●ed to favour the nesto●ian heresy , the nestorians increasing their faction under the authority of those writings , and the eutychians making that their plea for rejecting that council because it seemed to favour nestorianism ; the emperour justinian by the perswasion of theodorus of caesarea resolves to have those three chapters ( as they were called ) condemned , hoping by this means to perswade the eutychian faction to accept the council of chalcedon and thereby to settle peace in the church , which was then miserably rent and divided . to this end by the consent of the four eastern patriarchs , he publishes an edict wherein he condemns the three chapters , and anathematizes those who should defend them ; to this edict the guides of the eastern church subscribed ; but vigilius then pope , ( although victor ●ununensis , a writer of that age saith , that he had given it under his hand to theodora the empress , that if he might be made pope he would condemn the three chapters ) yet now being by violent hands thrust into the chair , he changes his mind , and declares against the edict ; and threatens excommunication to those who approved it as being contrary to the catholick faith , established in the council of chalcedon ; and accordingly stephanus his legat withdrew from the communion of the patriarch of constantinople . upon this , the emperour sends for vigilius to constantinople , who being come thither excommunicates the patriarch of constantinople and all who condemned the three chapters , or joyned with those who condemned them ; and the patriarch of constantinople again excommunicates him ; but after . or . months time , these excommunications were taken off : and pope vigilius after that publishes a decree wherein the three chapters were condemned by him , with a salvo to the authority of the council of chalcedon . which made the bishops of africa , illyricum and dalmatia to fall off from him , and rusticus and seb●stianus t●o deacons of his own church ; whom the pope excommunicated for so doing . yet the emperou● himself was not satisfied with that sa●vo , and the pope not yielding without it , a general council was called at constantin●p●e to put an end to this controversy ; to which the pope being solemnly invited refused to come , the council however proceeds in the examination of the three chapters ; during their session , vigilius publishes his apostolical decree or constitution , to the whole catholick church , with the assistance of . bishops of italy , africa , and illyricum , and three roman deacons ; wherein the pope defends the three chapters , and defines in the conclusion of it , that it should be lawful for none to write or teach any thing about these matters , contrary to his present definition ; or to move any farther question about them . notwithstanding which definition of the popes , the council proceeds to the condemning the three chapters , and to the anathematizing those who did not condemn them . that this is the true matter of fact , i am content to appeal to the acts of the council , the edict of iustinian , the popes own decree , or the writers of that age , or the most learned persons of the roman church , such as ●aronius , petavius and petrus de marca , who have all given an account of this controversy . i now desire to know , what a person in that time should do who was bound to yield an internal assent to the guides of the church ? must he believe the pope ? he not only contradicts the council but himself too ; for it now appears by a greek epistle first published by petrus de marcâ out of the king of frances library that vigilius being banished by iustinian did afterwards retract his own decree so solemnly made , and confirmed the council . would not a man now be in a pretty condition that were bound to believe one in all he said that so often contradicted himself ? must he believe the council ? what then becomes of the popes infallibility ? when they were so far from receiving the popes definition ( though done in such a manner , in which bellarmin saith , the pope cannot err , viz. when he teaches the whole church ; ) that they reject his decree and determin the quite contrary . i know but one way of evading this , ( which is that commonly insisted on by those of the roman church , ) viz. that all this was not a controversy about 〈◊〉 but persons . so indeed some of the 〈◊〉 ours of vigilius said , when they endeavo●red to extenuate the matter as much as they could finding that the bishops of africa , and many in italy broke off from the communion of the roman church on the account of this quarrel ; but i desire any one in this matter to look to their judgement who were con●erned in this quarrel ; and if men are bo●nd to believe their guides ▪ they ought to believe them when they tell them what is a matter of faith . and from the beginning of this controversy it was accounted a matter of faith , not only by the emperour , but by the pope , by the council , and by the bishops who opposed the council ; and must we trust them in other things and not in this ? besides , the very proceedings of the council manifest it according to be●larmins own rules ; for saith he , we then know a thing to be matter of faith , when the council declares it to be so , or them to be hereticks who hold the contrary ; or , which is the most common , when they denounce anat●ema , and exclude from the church , those who hold otherwise ; all which agree to this , as will appear by the last collation of that council . and pope vigilius in the greek epistle now published in the tomes of the councils , wherein he approves the th council , not only condemns the three chapters as contrary to saith , but anathematizes all those who should defend them and like an infallible judge very solemnly recants his former apostolical decree , though delivered by him upon great deliberation , an● with an intention to teach the whole church . i wonder who there could be in that age ; that believed the pope to be an infallible guide ? not the eastern bishops ; who excommunicated him , and decreed directly contrary to him ; not the western , for they likewise excommunicated him , and not only forsook his communion , but that of the roman church : but did he believe himself infallible , when he so often changed his mind , and contradicted himself in cathedra ? if he did , he was without doubt a brave man , and did as much as man can do . this controversy was scarce at an end , ( for the bishops of istria continued in their separation from the roman church for . years , w ch was till the time of honorius a. d. . ) when another was started , which gives us yet a more ample discovery of the more than fallibility of the guides of the church in that age , when a pope was condemned for a heretick by a general council ; in which case , i would fain know whether of them was infallible ? and to which of the guides of the church a man owed his internal assent , and external obedience ? this being an instance of so high a nature , that the truth of it being supposed , the pretence of absolute authority and infallibility in the guides of the roman church must fall to the ground , no wonder , that all imaginable arts have been used by those of the church of rome to take away the force of it ; among whom pighius , baronius , bellarmin , petavius , and petrus de marcâ have laboured hardest in acquitting honorius , but have proceeded in different ways ; and the two last are content the pope should be condemned for simplilicity and negligence , the better to excuse him from heresy ; but one would think these two were as contrary to the office of a trusty guide , as heresy to one that pretends to be infallible . but the better to understand the force of this instance , i shall give a brief account of the matter of fact , as it is agreed on all sides ; and the representing the divisions among the guides of the church at that time , will plainly shew how unreasonable it had been , to have required absolute submission to such who so vehemently contradicted each other . we are therefore to understand , that the late council at constantinople being found unsuccessful , for bringing the eutychians and their off-spring , to a submission to the council of chalcedon , another expedient was found out for that end , viz. that acknowledging two natures in christ they should agree in owning that there was but one will and operation in him after the union of both natures : because will and operation were supposed to flow from the person and not barely from the nature ; and the asserting two wills would imply two contrary principles in christ which were not to be supposed . this expedient was first proposed to heraclius the emperour by athanasius the patriarch of the iacobites , or paulus the s●verian and approved by sergius patriarch of constantinople , and by cyrus of alexandria , and theodorus bishop of pharan near aegypt . cyrus proceeded so far in it as by that means to reconcile the theodosiani , a sort of eutychians in alexandria , to the church , of which he gives an account to sergius of constantinople and sends him the anathema's which he published , among which the th . was against those who asserted , more than one operation in christ. sergius approves what cyrus had done ; but sophronius a learned monk , coming to alexandria vehemently opposed cyrus in this business ; but cyrus persisting he makes his address to sergius at constantantinople , and tells him of the dangerous heresy that was broaching under the pretence of union ; after some heats sergius yielded , that nothing should be farther said of either side . but sophronius being made bishop of ierusalem , he publishes an encyclical epistle wherein he asserts two operations and anathematizes those who held the contrary and were for the union ; and writes to honorius then pope , giving him an account of this new heresy of the monothelites ; the same year sergius writes to him likewise of all transactions that had hitherto been in this matter , and desires to know his judgement in such an affair , wherein the peace of the church was so much concerned . honorius writes a very solemn letter to sergius , wherein he condemns the contentious humour of sophronius , and makes as good a confession of his faith as he could , in which he expresly asserts that there was but one will in christ and agrees with sergius that there should be no more disputing about one or two operations in christ. accordingly heraclius by the advice of sergius publishes his ecthesis or declaration to the same purpose , which was approved by a synod under sergius ; but opposed by iohn . bishop of rome , yet still maintained at constinople not only by sergius , but by pyrrhus , and paulus his successours , who were both excommunicated by theodorus succeeding iohn ; after him pope martin calls a council , wherein he condemns all the eastern bishops who favoured this new heresy , and the two edicts of silence published by heraclius and constans : but was for his pains sent for to constantinople and there dyed . these contentions daily increasing , after the death of constans , constantinus pogonatus resolves to try all ways for the peace of the church ; and therefore calls a general council at constantinople a. d. . wher● the heresy of the monothelites was condemned ; and the writings of sergius , cyrus , theodorus and honorius in this matter , as repugnant to the doctrine of the apostles , and decrees of councils and the judgement of the fathers ; and agreeable to the false doctrine of hereticks and destructive to souls : and not content meerly to condemn their doctrine , they further proceed to anathamatize , and expunge out of the church the names of sergius , cyrus , pyrrhus , petrus , paulus , and theodorus : and after these , honorius , as agreeing in all things with sergius and confirming his wicked doctrines . here we are now come to the main point ; we see a pope delivering his judgement in a matter of faith concerning the wh●le church condemned for a heretick by a general council for so doing : either he was rightly condemned or not ; if rightly , what becomes of the infallibility of the pope when he pretends to teach the whole church in a matter of faith ? if not rightly , what becomes of the authority and sincerity of general councils , if a council so solemnly proceeding sho●ld condemn one for heresy , that not only did not err ; but if some may be believed , could not ? surely the council never thought of that , when they make no scruple of condemning him with the rest . what ? were pope agatho's legats there present , and could not inform the council of their presumption in judging the infallible see ? but no such thing was heard of in those times ; these latter ages have been only blessed with the knowledge of this unerring priviledge ; and happy had it been if all the records of former times had been burnt , that no instances might have been brought to overthrow it . yet wit and industry have not been wanting to bring poor honorius off , if it had been possible : the sum of all may be reduced to these . answers . . either that the acts of the council are falsifyed . or. . that the pope did not err in faith . or. . supposing he did err , it was only as a private person and not as head of the church . . that the acts of the council are falsifyed . this is a shrewed sign of a desperate cause , when against the consent of all ancient copies , both greek and latin , and the testimonies of several popes and councils afterwards , learned men are driven to so miserable a shift as this . the first i find , who made this answer was albertus pighius , and after him baronius and bellarmin have embraced it : but the more ingenuous men of their own church have been ashamed of it . melchior canus confesseth that not only this general council , but the seventh , and eighth under adrian , and that several other popes have confessed the truth of the thing ; and therefore he doth not see how pighius can vindicate honorius in this matter . franciscus torrensis ( afterwards better known by the name of turrianus ) a man highly applauded by baronius , hosius , lindanus , and others , writ a book of the . . and . synod , wherein he severely chastises pighius for his ill usage of this sixth council , and saith that in this matter he shewed more prejudice than judgement . for , whereas he suspects that the letter of honorius to sergius was not sufficiently examined and compared with the original , this betray 's saith turrianus , his great negligence in reading the acts of the council ; for in the latter end of the . session , it is expresly said that the authentick latin epistle of honorius was produced and compared by the bishop of porto ; besides how comes , saith he , the name of honorius to be no less than . times in the council ? and if all this had been by the greeks corrupting the copies , surely they would never have left that passage remaining concerning the corrupting the letters of mennas and vigilius : how comes leo . in his epistle to the emperour wherein he confirms the council , to anathematize honorius by name as guilty of heresy ; some indeed , saith he , may say this is counterfeit too , ( so do baronius and binius ) but they have nothing but their bare conjecture for it , no argument , or authority to confirm it . not only the greek writers , but the latin confess he was there condemned , so doth bede , saith he , so doth the pontifical book in the life of leo . and in the council under martin at rome the epistle of paulus to theodorus was read , wherein was mentioned the consent of honorius and sergius , and no one there opposed it . humbertus legat of leo . in his book against the greeks reckons honorius among the condemned monothelites . how came all the copies to be corrupted at once , as he farther urges , that there are none left sound to correct others by ? but that which he insists upon as the strongest argument of all is , from hadrian . who calling a council at rome for the condemning of photius , for anathematizing him , hath these remarkable words ; that no bishop of rome was anathematized before unless it were honorius who after his death was condemned for heresy , in which case alone it is lawful for inferiours to resist the●r superiours and to reject their doctrine ; although even there , they would never have done it if the bishop of the first see had not consented to it . a very considerable testimony ; not only to prove that honorius was comdemned for heresy , but that a pope may be guilty of it and be lawfully proceeded against for it , and that pope agatho did himself consent to the condemnation of honorius . notwithstanding these arguments of torrensis , baronius seeing that no other defence could be made , persists in the same accusation of forgery : and out of his own head frames an improbable story of the corrupting the copies of the council by theodorus , who being , saith he , anathematized as a monothelite , expunged his own name and put in that of honorius . a fiction so groundless and unreasonable , that nothing but meer despair could drive a man of common understanding to it . for there is not the least countenance for it in any author ; not the least colour of probability in the thing . for , that , all the copies of the council should be corrupted by one man , and neither the popes legats present at the council nor any else should take notice of it ; that , no succeeding popes should discover it , when they were concerned to vindicate honorius , but did own the thing to be true ; that theodorus then living should be condemned , before it was known whether he would submit to the council or not ; that , in the seventh and eighth councils this should not be at all suspected , but the condemning honorius expresly mentioned in both ; that , a man at that time deposed from his patriarchat of constantinople should be able to make such a razure and forgery in the copies of the councils ; that the emperour constantine who took so much care about the council should suffer such a thing to be done , do all make this figment of baronius so remote from any likelyhood , that baronius had need to have prayed as once a man upon the rack did , that he might tell probable lyes . but all the miscarriages of baronius in this matter are so fully laid open by one of their own church , that i need not insist any longer upon it ; to whom no answer hath been given but that substantial one of an index expurgatorius . bellarmin likes this way of answering the difficulty about honorius ; but the greatest strength he adds to baronius is only saying , without doubt it is so : and he grants that the seventh and eighth council did believe that pope honorius was condemned , but he saith they were deceived by the false acts of the council . but however they must believe that the pope might fall into heresy and be condemned by a council for it . yet bellarmim hath a fetch in this case beyond baronius viz. that either the acts of the council are falsified , or the council was guilty of intolerable impudence and errour in condemning honorius without reason ; for all the evidence they produce against him is from his epistles in which , saith he , nothing is contained , but what is sound and orthodox ; and this was the second way of defending honorius viz. that he did not err in faith at all ; and this way is taken by petavius , and others ; and was the way intended by petrus de marcâ , as appears by the account given of his design by baluzius ; which was first to prove by most evident arguments , that the acts of the council were never corrupted by the greeks , against the opinion before mentioned , and next that he was truly condemned by the council ; but not for heresy , but only for negligence and remissness . i think there needs nothing to shew the weakness of this , but barely reading the anathema of the council against him , which is not , for bare negligence but for confirming the wicked doctrines of sergius . and i am apt to think , that learned person saw the weakness of his design too much to go on with it : and baronius and bellarmin saw well enough , that whosoever was there anathematized it was upon the account of heresy that he was so ; and therefore baronius would make men believe the anathema belonged to theodorus and not to honorius . petavius thinks that honorius was deceived , but it was only by his simplicity and weakness , not understanding the controversy aright . so of old iohn . and maximus in his dispute with pyrrhus defended honorius , that he spake indeed of one will , but that , say they , was to be understood only of one will in his humane nature . which as combesis saith , is a more pious than solid defence of him ; and would as well serve , for sergius and cyrus , for heraclius his ecthesis and constans his type , as honorius his letter . for who ever will peruse them , will find they all proceed on the same argument , that there could not be two wills in christ but one must be contrary to the other . but that which i insist on is this , that it is certain the council approved by the pope did condemn him for heresy ; i desire therefore again to know whether he was rightly condemned or not ; if he was , then the pope must be guilty , and so not infallible ; if not , than the council must be , according to bellarmin , guilty of intolerable impudence and errour ; but in either case , there was no infallibility in the guides of the church which could require our internal assent to what they declared . but another defence is yet be●ind , which is , that though the pope did erre , yet it was in his private capacity , and not as head of the church . but when doth he act as head of the church if not , when he is consulted about important matters of faith , as this was then supposed to be , by two patriarchs ; and when the church was divided about them ; and there upon solemnly delivers his opinion ? this is then a meer subterfuge when men have nothing else to say ; i conclude therefore this instance of honorius with the ingenuous confession of mr. white , that things are so clear in the cause of honorius , that it is unworthy any grave divine to pawn his own honour and that of divinity too , in sowing together fig-leaves to palliate it . thus far i have shewn that those who pretend the most to be infallible guides of the church have opposed and condemned each other ; from whence it necessarily follows that no absolute submission is due to them , unless we can be obliged to believe contradictions . i might pursue this much further , and draw down the history of these contradictions to each other , through the following ages of the church ; wherein bishops have been against bishops , popes against popes , councils against councils , church against church ; especially after the breach between the eastern and greek churches , the greek and the roman , and the roman and those of the reformation ; but a man who is bound to rely only on the authority of his guides , must suppose them to be agreed ; and in case of difference among them , he must first choose his religion and by that his guide . . in the present divided state of the christian church , a man that would satisfy his own mind , must make use of his judgement in the choice of his church , and those guides he is to submit to . unless a man will say , that every one is bound to yield himself absolutely to the guidance of that church which he lives in whether eastern or greek , roman or protestant : which i suppose n. o. will never yield to , for a reason he knows because then no revolter from us could be justified . the true state then of the present case concerning the guides of the catholick church is this ; that it hath been now for many ages rent and torn into several distinct communions ; every one of which communions , hath particular guides over it , who pretend it to be the duty of men to live in subjection to them , because every church doth suppose it self to be in the right ; now the question proposed is , whether it be not fitter for me to submit to the guides of the catholick church , than to trust my own judgement ? i should make no scruple in all doubtful matters to resolve the affirmative , supposing that all the guides of the catholick church were agreed ; for i should think it arrogance and presumption in me to set up my own private opinion in opposition to the unanimous consent of all the guides of the catholick church , in such a case ; but that is far from ours , for we find the christian world divided into very different communions . the eastern churches are still as numerous , though not so prosperous as the roman ; the extent of the greek church alone is very great , but besides that , there are two other distinct churches in those parts who break off communion with the greek on the account of the councils of ephesus and chalcedon ; and the latter sort especially are very far spread in those parts , from armenia to the abyssine empire . in the time of iacobus de vitriaco , he saith these two churches were said to be more numerous than the greek and the latin ; and bellonius in these later times assures us , that the rites of the greek church do yet extend farther than the latin. what then makes these churches to be left out in our enquiries after the guides of the catholick church ? are these such inconsiderable parts of the body , that no regard is to be had to them ? i believe upon a strict examination , notwithstanding the reproach of heresy and schism , which those of the church of rome cast upon all but themselves , they will be sound much more sou●d parts of the catholick church , than the roman church is five great bodies or communions of christians are at this day in the world. . the most eastern christians , commonly called nestorians whether justly or no i shall not now examine , these are spread over the most eastern parts , and all live in subjection to the patriarch of muzal . . the iacobites , who are dispersed through mesopotamia , armenia , aegypt and the abyssine empire , and live under several patriarchs of their own . . the greek church , of which , besides the moscovites , are to be reckoned the melchites or suriani , and the georgians ; for though their language be different , they all agree in doctrine . . the roman church , taking under it all in the eastern parts who have submitted to the bishop of rome . . the protestant churches who have cast off subjection to the pope , and reformed the corruptions they charge the church of rome with . now of these . parts , . of them are all agreed , that there is no necessity of living in subjection to the guides of the roman church ; but they are all under their own proper guides , w ch they do not question will direct them in the right way to heaven . only those of the church of rome take upon themselves against all sense and reason to be the catholick church , and so exclude . parts of . out of a capacity of salvation ; and challenge infallibility as belonging to the guides of it alone . in this case , the arrogance of the pretence , the uncharitableness of rejecting so mighty a number of christians from the possibility of salvation , are sufficient to make any man not yield up his faith at the first demand ; but to consider a while , whether there be no other churches , or guides in those churches ? when he finds so many and those not inferiour to the roman church in any thing save only in pomp , pride , and uncharitableness ; and all opposing those arrogant pretences of authority and infallibility in it , what reason can he have , supposing that he is to submit to any guides , that he must submit only to those of the roman church ? why not as well to those of the eastern , greek , or protestant churches ? if any one goes about to assign a reason , by charging them with heresy , or schism , he unavoidably makes him judge of some of the greatest difficulties in religion , before he can submit to his infallible guides . he must know what nestorianism , eutychianism , monothelism mean , how they came to be heresies , whether the churches accused be justly charged with them ? he must understand all the subtilties of personalitie , subsistence , hypostatical union ; whether the union of two natures in christ be substantial , natural , or accidental ? whether it be enough to say that the divine and humane are one by inhabitation , or one by consent , or one by communion of operation , or one by communion of dignity and honour , all which the nestorians acknowledged , only denying the union of two natures to make one person ? supposing a man be come to this , he must then be satisfied that the present eastern christians do hold the doctrine of the old nesiorians , for they acknowledge christ to be perfect god and perfect man ; and that the b. virgin may be called the mother of the son of god , or the mother of the word , but they stick only at calling her the mother of god. then for the other churches which are charged with e●tychianism , he must understand , the exact difference between nature and person , for if there cannot be two natures without two persons , then either the nestorians were in the right who asserted two persons , or the eytychians who denyed two natures ; but this being granted , he must be satisfied , that , those called iacobites are eutychians , although they disown eutyches , and follow dioscorus , asserting that there were two natures before the union , and but one after ; and that dioscorus was rightly condemned in the council of chalce●on ; but supposing they are willing to leave the dispute of two natures , on condition , that the humane nature be only made the instrument of the divine in its operations , whether they are justly charged with heresy in so doing ? all these things a man must fully be satisfied in , before he can pronounce those churches guilty of heresy , and so not to be followe . but supposing those churches be rejected , why must the greek , which embraces all the councils which determined those subtle controversies ? here comes the mystery of the procession of the holy ghost to be examined , whether from the father alone or from the father and the son ? but supposing this to be yielded , why may he not joyn with those churches , which agree with the church of rome in all those points , as the protestant churches do ? here a man must examine the notes of the church , and enquire whether they be true notes , whether they agree only to the roman church ? and one of the greatest of those notes being consent with the primitive church , a man that would be well satisfied , must go through all the disputes between us and the church of rome , and by that time he is well settled in them , he will see little use , and less necessity of an infallible guide . so that a man who would satisfy himself in this divided state of the christian church , what particular communion he ought to embrace and what guides he must follow , must do all that , for the preventing of which an infallible guide is said to be necessary . i.e. he must not only exercise his own judgment in particular controversies , but must proceed according to it , and joyn with that church which upon enquiry he judges to be the best . . a prudent submission is due to the guides of that church , with which a person lives in communion . having shewed that absolute submission is not due , all that can be left is a submission within due bounds , which is that i call a prudent submission . and those bounds are these following . . not to submit to all those who challenge the authority of guides over us , though pretending to never so much power and infallibility . when n. o. would perswade me to submit my understanding to the infallible guides of the church ; he must think me a very easy man to yield , till i be satisfied first that god hath appointed such to be my guides , and in the next place that he hath promised infallibility to them . and that is the true state of the controversy between us and those of the church of rome in this matter ; they tell us we are bound to submit to the guides of the church ; we desire to know whom they mean by these guides ; and at last we understand them to be the bishop of rome and his clergy . here we demur , and own no authority the bishop of rome hath over us ; we assert that we have all the rights of a patriachal church within our selves , that we owe no account to the bishop of rome of what we believe or practise ; it is no article of our creed that god hath made him iudge either of the quick or the dead ; we have guides of our church among our selves , who have as clear a succession and as good a title as the bishops of any church in the world . to these , who are our lawful guides , we promise a due obedience , and are blame worthy if we give it not ; but for the bishop and clergy of rome , we own none to them , let them challenge it with never so much confidence , and arrogant pretences to infallibility . so that here is a contest of right in the case , antecedent to any duty of submission , which must be better proved than ever it hath yet been , before we can allow any dispute , how far we are to submit to the guides of the roman church ? . not to submit to those who are lawful guides in all things they may require . for our dispute is now about guides supposed to be fallible , and they being owned to be such may be supposed to require things to which we are bound not to yield . but the great difficulty now is , so to state these things , as to shew that we had reason not to submit to the guides of the roman church , and that those of the separation have no reason not to submit to the guides of our church . for that is the obvious objection in this case , that the same pretence which was used by our church against the church of rome , will serve to justify all the separations that have been or can be made from our church . so my adversary n. o. in his preface saith , that by the principles we hold , we excuse and justify all sects which have or shall separate from our church . in answer to which calumny i shall not fix upon the perswasion of conscience , for that may equally serve for all parties ; but upon a great difference in the very nature of the case , as will appear in these particulars . . we appeal to the doctrine and practice of the truly catholick church in the matters of difference between us and the church of rome : we are as ready as they to stand to the unanimous consent of fathers , and to vincentius lerinensis his rules , of antiquity , universality and consent ; we declare , let the things in dispute be proved to have been the practice of the christian church in all ages , we are ready to submit to them : but those who separate from the church of england make this their fundamental principle as to worship , ( wherein the difference lyes , ) that nothing is lawful in the worship of god , but what he hath expresly commanded ; we say all things are lawful which are not forbidden , and upon this single point stands the whole controversy of separation as to the constitution of our church . we challenge those that separate from us to produce one person for . years together , that held forms of prayer to be unlawful ; or the ceremonies which are used in our church : we defend the government of the church by bishops to be the most ancient and apostolical government , and that no persons can have sufficient reason to cast that off , which hath been so universally received in all ages since the apostles times : if there have been disputes among us about the nature of the difference between the two orders , and the necessity of it in order to the being of a church , such there have been in the church of rome too . here then lyes a very considerable difference , we appeal and are ready to stand to the judgement of the primitive church for interpreting the letter of scripture in any difference between us and the church of rome ; but those who separate from our church will allow nothing to be lawful but what hath an express command in scripture . . the guides of our church never challenged any infallibility to themselves ; which those of the church of rome do , and have done ever since the controversy began . which challenge of infallibility makes the breach irreconcileable while that pretence continues ; for there can be no other way but absolute submission where men still pretend to be infallible : it is to no purpose to propose terms of accommodation between those who contend for a reformation , and such who contend that they can never be deceived ; on the one side , errours are supposed ; and on the other , that it is impossible there should by any . until therefore this pretence be quitted , to talk of accomodation is folly , and to design it madness . if the church of rome will allow nothing to be amiss , how can she reform any thing ? and how can they allow any thing to be amiss , who believe they can never be deceived ? so that while this arrogant pretence of infallibility in the roman church continues , it is impossible there should be any reconciliation : but there is no such thing in the least pretended by our church , that declares in her articles , that general councils may err , and sometimes have erred even in things partaining to god ; and that all the proof of things to be believed is to be taken from holy scripture . so that as to the ground of faith there is no difference between our church and those who dissent from her ; and none of them charge our church with any errour in doctrine ; nor plead that as the reason of their separation . . the church of rome not only requires the belief of her errours but makes the belief of them necessary to salvation : which is plain by the often objected creed of pius . wherein the same necessity is expressed of believing the additional articles , which are proper to the roman church , as of the most fundamental articles of christian faith. and no man who reads that bull can discern the least difference therein made between the necessity of believing one and the other ; but that all together make up that faith , without which no man can be saved ; which though only required of some persons to make profession of , yet that profession is to be esteemed the faith of their church . but nothing of this nature can be objected against our church by dissenters , that excludes none from a possibility of salvation meerly because not in her communion , as the church of rome expresly doth : for it was not only boniface . who determined as solemnly as he could , that it was necessary to salvation to be in subjection to the bishop of rome ; but the council of lateran under leo . decreed the same thing . . the guides of the roman church pretend to as immediate authority of obliging the consciences of men , as christ or his apostles had ; but ours challenge no more than teaching men to do what christ had commanded them , and in other things , not commanded or forbidden , to give rules , which on the account of the general commands of scripture , they look on the members of our church as obliged to observe . so that the authority challenged in the roman church encroaches on the prerogative of christ , being of the same nature with his ; but that which our governours plead for , is only that which belongs to them as governours over a christian society . hence in the church of rome it is accounted as much a mortal sin to disobey their guides in the most indifferent things , as to disobey god in the plain commands of scripture : but that is not all they challenge to themselves , but a power likewise to dispence with the law 's of god , as in matter of marriages , and with the institution of christ as in communion in one kind ; and promise the same spiritual effects to their own institutions as to those of christ , as in the . sacraments they have added to the two of christ , and to other ceremonies in use among them . . setting aside these considerations , we dare appeal to the judgement of any person of what perswasion soever , whether the reasons we plead for separation from the church of rome be not in themselves far more considerable than those , which are pleaded by such , who separate from our church ? i.e. whether our churches imposing of three ceremonies declared to be indifferent by those who require them , can be thought by any men of common sense so great a burden to their consciences , as all the load of superstitious fopperies in the roman church ? whether praying by a prescribed form of words be as contrary to scripture , as praying in an unknown tongue ? whether there be no difference between kneeling at the sacrament upon protestants principles and the papists adoration of the h●st ? whether transubstantiation , image worship , invocation of saints , indulgences , purgatory , the popes supremacy , be not somewhat harder things to swallow , than the churches power to appoint matters of order and decency ? which particulars make the difference so apparent between the separation of our church from the church of rome , and that of dissenters from our church ; that it seems a very strange thing to me that this should be objected by our enemies on either side . and thus much may suffice to clear this point of submission to the guides of a church , of which i have the more largely discoursed , not for any difficulty objected by n. o. but because the thing it self did deserve to be more amply considered . but some other things relating to church-authority i must handle afterwards , and therefore now return to my adversary . the next thing to be debated is , what assurance we can have of the sense of scripture in doubtful places , if we allow no infallible guides to interpret them ? for that is the second main principle of n. o. that without this infallible assistance of the guides of the church , there can be no certainty of the sense of scripture . and it is chiefely o● this account that n. o. doth assert the necessity of infallible guides of the church : for as appears by his concessions he yields that the churches infallibility is not necessary to the foundation of faith ; for men ▪ faith , he saith , may begin at the infallible authority of scriptures ; but the main groun● on which he contends for the necessity of infallible guides is for the interpretation of controverted places and giving the true sense of scripture : for which he often pleads f●● necessity of an external infallible guide ▪ because god hath referred all in the dubio● sense of scripture to the direction of his ministers their spiritual guides , whom he 〈◊〉 over them to bring them in the vnity of the faith to a perfect man ; and that they may not be tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine , by the sleight of those who lye in wait to deceive . and without which guide st. peter observes , that in his time some persons ( for any thing we know diligent enough ) yet through want of learning , and the instability of adhering to their guides , being unlearned , saith he , and unstable , wrested some places of scripture , hard to be understood , to their own destruction . therefore these scriptures are also in some great and important points hard to be understood . and afterwards , he saith , that christians who have sufficient certainty of the truth of christianity , may be deficient in a right belief of several necessary articles of this christian faith , if destitute of that external infallible guide therein : without which he determines that men must fluctuate and totter , and vary one from another , whilst the scriptures are ambiguous in their sense and drawn with much art to several interests . the force of all which , comes to this , that we can arrive at no certainty of the sense of scripture in controverted places , without an external infallible guide : and therefore we are bound to submit to him . here are two things to be discussed . . what necessity there is for the salvation of persons , to have an infallible interpretation of controverted places of scripture ? . whether the denying such an infallible interpreter makes men uncapable of attaining any certain sense of doubtful places ? for if either it be not necessary that men should have an infallible interpretation ; or men may attain at a certain sense without it , then there can be no colour of an argument drawn from hence to prove the necessity of an infallible guide . . we are to enquire into the necessity o● such an infallible interpretation of doubtf●● places of scripture . there are but three grounds on which it can be thought necessary either that no man should mistake in the sense of scripture , or that the peace of the church cannot be preserved , or that mens souls cannot be saved without it . if i● were necessary on the first account , then every particular person must be infallible ; which being not pleaded for , we must consider the other two grounds of it . but here we are 〈◊〉 take notice , that the matter of our prese●● enquiry is concerning the clearness of scripture in order to the salvation of particul●● persons ; of which the proposition laid dow● by me expresly speaks . if therefore n. o. do any thing to overthrow this , he mu●● prove , not that there are doubtful and controverted places which no one denies , but that the sense of scripture is so doubtful and obscure in the things which are necessary to mens salvation , that persons without an infallible guide cannot know the meaning of them . if he prove not this , he doth not come near that which he ought to prove . we do not therefore deny , that there are places of great difficulty in the books of scripture ; but we assert , that the necessaries to salvation do not lye therein ; but those being plain and clear , men may be saved without knowing the other . as a seaman may safely direct his compass by the stars , although he cannot solve all the difficulties of astronomy . can any man in his senses imagine that christs coming into the world to dye for sinners , and the precepts of a holy life which he hath given , and the motives thereto from his second coming to judge the world , are not more plain than the apocalyphical visions , or the proofs for the church of romes infallibility ? if a person then by reading and considering those things which are plain , may do what christ requires for his salvation ; what necessity hath such a one to trouble himself about an infallible guide ? for either he may go to heaven without him , or not ? if he may , let them shew the necessity he is of to that end , which may be attained without him ; if not , then the things necessary to salvation cannot be known without him . let this be proved , and i will immediately yield the whole cause : and till it be proved my principles remain unshaken . but saith n. o. the scripture is obscure in some great and important points , because s. peter saith , that men unlearned and unstable , ( though it may be diligent enough ) wrested some places of scriptures hard to be understood to their own destruction . but doth s. peter say that the scriptures are so hard to be understood that sober and devout minds cannot learn therein , what is necessary to their salvation ? this had been indeed to their purpose : but it is far enough from st. peters . he only saith that in st. pauls epistles there are some difficult passages , which men that wanted judgement and constancy , and it may be diligence too , were ready to pervert to their own mischief . but if there be such difficulties , is there nothing plain and easy ? if bad men may pervert them , may no● good men make a good use of them ? if some may destroy themselves by their own weakness and folly , may not others be saved by their diligence and care ? if it were proved by n. o. that st. peter charged all this upo● them for want of adhering to their guides , that would approach nearer his business ; but if st. peter had intended any such thing as n. o. insinuates , what fairer opportunity had there been of preventing this instability in others by telling them , that god had appointed infallible guides in his church to prevent such abuses of scripture , and that , so long as they adhered to them , they were safe ; but there is not the least word in st. peter to this purpose , when it had been most necess●ry to have given such advice ; but he only bids them , have a care of imitating the inconstancy of such wicked men , and grow in the grace and knowledge of iesus christ. if on so fair and just an occasion offered , st. peter himself whom they believe to have been head of the church at that time , and at rome at the writing of this epistle , doth wholly omit referring men in the sense of obscure places to infallible guides ; what can we else infer but that st. peter knew of no such appointment of christ , or thought no such thing of necessity for his church . for if he had , such was his care and faithfulness , he would never have omitted so necessary a thing ; if the salvation of mens souls had depended upon it . if it be not then necessary to mens salvation to have an infallible interpretation of doubtful places ; for what other end can it become necessary ? is it , that without this , the churches peace cannot be preserved , because controversies arising in the church , no issue can be put to them , unless there be an infallible iudge to determine which is the true sence of scripture ? for it is impossible that scripture it self should be judge , because the controversy is about the sense of scripture . so that either there is no way left to determine controversies , or there must be an infallible judge to deliver the sense of scripture in ●oubtful places . this is the force of all that i know can be said in this matter ; to which i answer . . the strength of this argument depends upon the supposition of the necessity of determining controversies in religion by a living judge , who must pronounce sentence between the parties in 〈◊〉 . which supposition , how plausible soever it seems , is not built on any sufficient fo●ndation of scripture or reason . for the weakness of humane understanding , the power of interest and passion , and the ambi●●ity of words , are as apt to beget disputes in religion as in any other things ; so that we have 〈◊〉 ca●se at all to wonder that there should happen to be controversies among men about there 〈◊〉 ; when we see them daily happen about the laws of every country . the only question now is , whether as the necessities of people have made it necessary that there should not only be laws but judges , who should be as the most equal arbitrators to put an end to such differences as may happen among men about matters of right and law , it be thus in religion too ? and this question is plainly about a matter of fact i.e. whether christ hath appointed such judges in all ages , who are to determine all emergent controversies about the difficult places of his law ? and in this case we think it is all the reason in the world , that they who affirm should prove , especially , when they affirm a matter of their own right , and challenge a submission from others on the account of it . we desire them who challenge to be our infallible guides , that they would shew their commission , and produce their patent : for as we are ready to yield obedience , if they crave it , so we think it treason and tyranny in them to usurp it , if they have it not . and it is to no purpose to talk of the benefits that would come to the world by an infallible judge of controversies , unless they first prove that there is one . but we must not allow men to prove things to be , meerly because they think it fitting they should be ; for that is to make themselves wiser than christ and rather to tell him what he should have done , than prove what he hath done . what if ▪ christ having provided for the necessaries of salvation by a clear revelation should leave other things in the dark , to exercise the wits of some and the charity of others ? what if , he thought it sufficient to oblige men to the greatest honesty and integrity in knowing and doing the will of god , and hath promised to pass by the errours and failings men are subject to barely as men ? what if , he foresaw this matter of ending controversies would be an occasion of raising one of the greatest in the christian world , and become a pretence of the most intolerable tyranny over the minds of men ? and therefore what if , he thought it reasonable to leave the failings of mens understandings and lives upon the same terms , so as to give sufficient means to prevent either , but not effectually to hinder men from falling into either of them ? what if , the nature of religion will not bear such a determination of controversies as civil matters will ? because , civil matters concern the right and wrong of particular persons , in which it is not the sentence of the judge so much as the civil force whereby it is backed which puts an end to the dispute ; but in matters of religion , the ending controversies can be no effect of force and power , but of reason and conviction of conscience ; and all the pretended infallibility in the world can never satisfy my mind , unless i be first assured of that infallibility . in all civil causes , it is agreed on both sides that such judges are appointed to determine cases of law ; and on the supposition of this men proceed to tryal before them ; but in our case this is the main thing in dispute , and he that pretends to be the judge is the most accused partie , and what reason can there be , that only on the pretence of greater peace , if controversies were referred to an infallible judge , we must therefore allow every one that pretends to it to be such an infallible guide ? and we must on the same ground allow every one , if we must not first be satisfied of the grounds on which it is challenged by any one . and withal , since christ is the best judge of what is fittest for his church , we must see by his laws whether he hath made it necessary for all controversies to be ended by a standing judge , that should arise about the sense of scripture ? if he hath not done it , it is to no pu●pose to say , it is fit he should have done it ; for that is to upbraid christ with weakness and not to end differences in his church . . supposing it necessary that controversies should be ended , it may as well be done without an infallible judge of the sense of scripture as with one ; for all that is pretended to be done by an infallible judge is to give a certain sense of controverted places ; so that men are either bound to look on that which they give as the certain sense on the account of the infallibility of the interpreter , or that such an infallible interpretation being set aside , there is no way to know the certain sense of scripture . if the first , then no man can be more certain of the sense of any doubtful place , than he is of the infallibility of his interpreter : i desire therefore to be resolved in this case . i am told i can arrive at no certainty of the sense of doubtful places of scripture without an infallible interpreter , i say the places of scripture which are alledged for such an infallible judge are the most doubtful and controverted of any ; i would fain understand by what means i may come to be certain of the meaning of these places , and to find out the sense of them ? must i do it only by an infallible guide ? but that is the thing i am now seeking for , and i must not suppose that which i am to prove . if i may be certain without supposing such an infallible guide of the meaning of these very doubtful and controverted places , than why may i not by the same way of proceeding arrive at the certainty of any other less doubtful and obscure places ? unless there be some private way to come at the sense of those places which will hold for none else besides them , which is not so easy to understand . . i come the●efore to the second enquiry , which is about the means of attaining the certain sense of scripture in doubtful places , without the supposition of an infallible guide . it will not i hope be denyed , that the primitive christian church had a certain way of understanding the sense of doubtful places , as far as it was necessary to be understood , and that they wanted no means which christ had appointed for the ending of controversies . but i shall now shew , that they proceeded by no other means than what we use , so that , if they had any means to come to a certain sense of scripture , we have the same ; and it would be a ve●y hard case if by the use of the same means we cannot attain the same end . i shall therefore give an account of the proceeding of the primitive church in this weighty controversy concerning the sense of scripture in doubtful places ; and if no such thing was then heard off as an infallible judge , it is a plain demonstration , they thought there was none appointed ; because the disputes that happened then required as much the authority of such a judge as any that are at this day in the christian church . in the first ages of christianity , there were two sorts of controversies which disturbed the church ; one was concerning the authority of the books of the new testament , and the other concerning the sense of them . for , there was no one book of the new testament whose authority was not called in question , by some hereticks in those first ages . the gnosticks , ( by whom i understand the followers of simon magus menander , saturninus and basilides ) , ha● framed a new religion of their own under the name of christian , and had no regard to the writings either of the old or new testament , but had a book of their own , which they called the gospel of perfection . but as epiphanius well observes , no man that hath understanding , needs scripture to refute such a religion as theirs was ; for right reason alone was sufficient to discover the folly and filthyness of it . the followers of cerinthus and ebion acknowledged no other gospel but that of st. matthew ; and that not entire , but with diverse corruptions and interpolations according to their several fancies . cerdon and marcion allowed no gospel but that of st. luke , which they altered according to their pleasure , cutting off the genealogy and other places , and inserting many things as it served most to their purpose , as may be seen at large in epiphanius . some say , the valentinians received no other gospel but that of st. iohn , ( as the alogi in epiphanius rejected that alone , ) but i do not find that valentinus did reject any , but added more ; for irenaeus chargeth the valentinians only with adding another gospel , which they called the gospel of truth ; and tertullian expresly saith , that valentinus therein differed from marcion , that marcion cut off what he pleased with his sword , but valentinus corrupted it with his pen ; for although he allowed all the books of the new testament , yet he perverted the meaning of them . eusebius tells us that the followers of severus rejected the epistles of s. paul and the acts of the apostles ; and interpreted the law , and the prophets and the gospels after a peculiar sense of their own . so that we see those who undertook to confute these hereticks were not only to vindicate the true sense of scripture , but to dispute with such , who did not own the same books which they did ; and therefore were forced to use such ways of arguing as were proper to them : as may be seen at large by the proceedings of irenaeus , and tertullian against them . but because the valentinians and marcionites did endeavour to suit their extravagant fancies to the scriptures allowed by them , it will be necessary for us , to enquire by what means they went about to clear the true sense of scripture from their false glosses and interpretations . irenaeus in the beginning of his book , relating at large the doctrines of the val●ntinians , saith , that by the perverse interpretations and corrupt expositions of the scripture , they drew away unstable minds from the true faith ; for they pretended to find out deeper and more mysterious things in the scripture , than others were acquainted with , viz. that christ intimated the . aeöns by not appearing till the . year of his age. that the parable of men called at the first , the third , the sixth , the ninth , the eleventh hour referred to the same thing , for those hours make up the number of . that st. paul often mentions these aeöns and the pro●uctions of them ; that the duodecade of aeöns was implyed in our saviours ●isputing with the doctors at . years of age , and in the choice of the . apostles : and the remaining . by his abiding . months as they said with his disciples after his resurrection : and where ever in scripture they met with words suitable to the description of their aeöns , they pretended that they did refer to their notions , but were obscurely expressed on purpose : for which end they made use of parables , and the first of st. john and many passages in st. pauls epistles . what course now doth irenaeus take to clear the sense of scripture in these controverted places ? doth he till them that god had appointed infallible guides in his church , to whom appeal was to be made in all such cases ? nothing like it , through his whole book ; but he argues with very good reason that no such thing as they imagined could be intended by the scripture . . from the scope and design of the scripture , which ought chiefly to be regarded ; whereas they only took some particular passages which served most to their purpose , without looking to the series of the discourse wherein they were . therefore saith he , they make only a rope of sand , when they apply the parables of our saviour , or the sayings of the prophets or apostles to their opinions ; for they pass over the order and connexion of the scriptures ; and as much as in them lyes loose the members of truth from each other ; and then transform and change them from one thing to another , thereby deceiving men . as if , saith he , a man should take an excellent image of a prince , done with a great deal of art in pretious stones ; and remove those stones out of their proper places and turn them into the shape of a dog or a fox , ill put together , and should then affirm , that because the stones are the same , that this image of a dog or a fox , was the image of the prince made by such an excellent artist : after the very same way , saith he , do they use the scriptures . or as he afterwards expresseth it , they take several words and names here and there , and put them together , much after the way of those who would apply the words of homer to any argument proposed to them ; which some have done so artificially , that unskilful men have been perswaded that homer did mean that very thing when he wrote his poem . as one did the going of hercules to cerberus so exactly in the words of homer , ( put together in the greek fragments of irenaeus , ) that those who did not consider upon what different occasions those words were used by him , some being spoken of vlisses , some of priamus , some of maenelaus , and agamemnon , and some of hercules , might imagine that the poet intended to describe what the other expressed by him . but he that will examine the several places will find that the words indeed are homers , but the sense his that so applyed them . so it is in this case , the words are the scriptures , but applyed quite in another way , than they were intended ; the stones are the same , but yet the image of the fox is not to be taken for that of the prince : and when he hath taken the pains to put every thing in its proper and due place , he will then easily find out the deceit . and by the help of this rule irenaeus vindicates the places of scripture , which the valentinians made use of ; and makes it evident that could not be the sense of them which they put upon them . as he doth particularly prove that st. iohn by the beginning of his gospel could not mean the first ogdoad of the valentinians . to the very same purpose doth tertullian argue against their way of interpreting scripture ; that although it seems to have wit and easiness in it , yet it is no more than is often practised on virgil and homer as well as the scriptures . for we have seen virgil , saith he , with the same words turned quite to another sense ; as hosidius get a made the tragoedy of medea , out of virgil ( some fragments whereof are still extant ) and one had explained cebes his table in virgils words ; and many had applyed the words of homer in their cento's to different purposes , and not only some of late , but isidore ▪ saith , that prob● and pomponius before his time had mad● virgil evangelize . therefore it is n● wonder , saith tertullian , that the scripture should be so abused , it being much more fruitful , and applicable to several purposes than other writings are . nay saith he , i am not afraid to say , that the scriptures were so framed by the will of god , that they might afford matter for hereticks to work upon ; since i read that there must be heresies , which cannot be without the scripture . and surely then , he did not imagine that god had appointed an infallible judge on purpose to prevent the being of heresies , by giving an infallible sense of scripture . . from the repugnancy of the sence they gave to other places of scripture . irenaeus observes , that the hereticks delighted most in dark places , and left the plain ones ; whereas we ought most to rely upon the plain places and by them interpret the obscure . for such who loved god and the truth would study most those things which god put under our command and knowledge : and those are things which are plain before our eyes , and are open and without ambiguity laid down in scriptures ; and to these parables and dark places ought to be fitted , and by this means they may be interpreted without danger , and of all alike and the body of truth remains entire with a suitableness of all its parts . but without this every man interprets as he pleases , and there will be no certain rule of truth ; but every interpretation will be according to the opinion of the interpreter , and m●n will contradict each other as the philosophers did . and by this means men will be always seeking and never finding because they cast away the means of finding . seeing therefore , saith he , that all the scriptures both prophetical and evangelical are plain and clear , and may be heard alike of all : they must be very blind that will not see in so great light , but darken themselves in parables , wherein every one of them thinks he hath found a god of his own . and from hence he very much blames the hereticks , since they could not so much as pretend that any thing was plainly said for them in scripture , but only intimated in dark sayings and parables , that they would leave that which is certain and undoubted and true , for that which was uncertain and obscure . which , he saith , is not to build the house upon the firm and strong ro●k ; but upon the uncertainty of the sand ; on which it may be easily overturned . this excellent rule for interpreting scripture irenaeus makes great use of in his following discourse , and in the very next chapter urges this as the consequence of it , that having truth for our rule , and so plain testimony of god , men ought not to perplex themselves with doubtful questions concerning god , but grow in the love of him who hath done and doth so great things for us , and never fall off from that knowledge which is most clearly revealed . and we ought to be content with what is clearly made known in the scriptures , because they are perfect , as coming from the w●rd and spirit of god. and we need 〈◊〉 ●onder if there be many things in religion above our understandings , since there are so in natural things which are daily seen by us : as in the nature of birds , water , air , meteors , &c. of which we may talk much , but only god knows what the truth is . therefore why should we think much if it be so in religion too ? wherein are some things we may understand and others we must leave to god , and if we do so we shall keep our faith without danger . and all scripture being agreeable to it self , the dark places must be understood in a way most suitable to the sense of the plain . . the sense they gave of scripture was contrary to the doctrine of faith received by all true christians from the beginning : which he calls the unmoveable rule of faith received in baptism ; and ▪ which the church dispersed over the earth did equally receive in all places ; with a wonderful consent . for although the places and languages be never so distant or different from each other , yet the faith is the very same as there is one sun which inlightens the whole world ; which faith none did enlarge or diminish . and after having shewn the great absurdities of the doctrines of the enemies of this faith , in his first and second books , in the beginning of the third he shews that the apostles did fully understand the mind of christ , that they preached the same doctrine which the church received , and which , after their preaching it , was committed to writing by the will of god in the scriptures , to be the pillar and ground of faith. which was the true reason why the hereticks did go about to disparage the scriptures because they were condemned by them : therefore they would not allow them sufficient authority , and charged them with contradictions , and so great obscurity that the truth could not be found in them without the help of tradition , which they accounted the key to unlock all the difficulties of scripture . and was not to be sought for in writings , but was delivered down from hand to hand ; for which cause st. paul said we speak wisdom among them that are perfect . which wisdom they pretended to be among themselves . on this account the matter of tradition came first into dispute in the christian church : and irenaeus appeals to the most eminent churches and especially that of rome , because of the great resort of christians thither , whether any such tradition was ever received among them and all the churches of asia received the same faith from the apostles , and knew of no such tradition as the valentinians pretended to . and there was no reason to think , that so many churches , founded by the apostles or christ , should be ignorant of such a tradition ; and supposing no scriptures at all had been written by the apostles , we must then have followed the tradition of the most ancient and apostolical churches , and even the most barbarous nations that had embraced christianity without any writings : yet fully agreed with other churches in the doctrine of faith , for that is it he means by the rule of faith , viz. a summary comprehension of the doctrine received among christians , such as the creed is mentioned by irenaeus ; and afterwards he speaks of the rule of the valentinians in opposition to that of the sound christians . from hence irenaeus proceeds to confute the doctrine of the valentinians by scripture and reason in the third , fourth and fifth books : all which ways of finding out the sense of scripture in doubtful places , we allow of and approve ; and are always ready to appeal to them in any of the matters controverted between us and the church of rome . but irenaeus knew nothing of any infallible judge to determine the sense of scripture ; for if he had , it would have been very strange he should have gone so much the farthest way about , when he might so easily have told the valentinians that god had entrusted the guides of his church , especially at rome with the faculty of interpreting scripture , and that all men were bound to believe that to be the sense of it which they declared and no other . but men must be pardoned if they do not write that which never entred into their heads . after irenaeus , tertullian sets himself the most to dispute against those who opposed the faith of the church ; and the method he takes in his boo of praescription of hereticks is this . . that there must be a certain unalterable rule of faith. for he that believes , doth not only suppose sufficient grounds for his faith , but bounds that are set to it ; and therefore there is no need of further search since the gospel is revealed . this he speaks to take away the pretence of the seekers of those days , who were always crying , seek and ye shall find : to which he replys , that we are to consider not the bare words , but the reason of them ; and in the first place we are to suppose this , that there is one certain and fixed doctrine delivered by christ which all nations are bound to believe , and therefore to seek , that when they have found they may believe it . therefore all our enquiries are to be confined within that compass ; what that doctrine was , which christ delivered : for otherwise there will be no end of seeking . . he shews what this rule of faith is , by repeating the articles of the ancient creed , which he saith was universally , received among true christians and disputed by none but hereticks . which rule of faith being embraced , then he saith , a liberty is allowed for other enquiries in doubtful or obscure matters . for faith lyes in the rule ; but other things were matters of skill and curiosity ; and it is faith which saves men , and not their skill in expounding scriptures : and while men keep themselves within that rule , they are safe enough , for to know nothing beyond it , is to know all . . but they pretend scripture for what they deliver , and by that means unsettle the minds of many . to this he answers several ways . . that such persons as those were , ought not to be admitted to a dispute concerning the sense of scripture ; because they rather deserved to be censured than disputed , for bringing such new heresies into the church ; but chiefly because it was to no purpose to dispute with them about the sense of scripture , who received what scriptures they pleased themselves , and added and took away as they thought fit . and what can the most skilful men in the scripture , do with such men , who deny or affirm what they please ? therefore such kind of disputes tended to no good at all , where either side charged the other with forging and perverting the scriptures , and so the controversy with them , was not to be managed by the scriptures , by which either none , or an uncertain victory was to be obtained . . in this dispute about the sense of scripture , the true ancient faith is first to be enquired after , for among whom that was , there would appear to be the true meaning of scripture . and for finding out the true faith , we are to remember , that , christ sent abroad his apostles to plant churches in every city , from whence other churches did derive the faith , which are called apostolical from their agreement in this common faith at first delivered by the apostles ; that , the way to understand this apostolical faith is to have recourse to the apostolical churches ; for it is unreasonable to suppose that the apostles should not know the doctrine of christ , ( which he at large proves ) or that they did not deliver to the churches planted by them the things which they knew ; or that the churches misunderstood their doctrine because all the christian churches were agreed in one common faith : and therefore there is all the reason to believe that so universal consent must arise from some common cause , which can be supposed to be no other than the common delivery of it by all the apostles . but the doctrines of the hereticks were novel and upstart ; and we must say all the former christians were baptized into a false faith , as not knowing the true god or the true christ if marcion and valentinus did deliver the true doctrine , but that which is first is true and from god , that which comes after is foraign and false . if marcion and valentinus , nigidius or hermogenes broach new opinions and set up other expositions of scripture than the christian church hath received from the apostles times , that without any farther proof , discovers their imposture . . two senses directly contrary to each other cannot proceed from the same apostolical persons . this tertullian likewise insists upon to shew that although they might pretend antiquity , and that as far as the apostolical times , yet the contrariety of their doctrine to that of the apostles would sufficiently manifest the falshood of it . for saith he , the apostles would never contradict each other or themselves ; and if the apostolical persons had contradicted them , they had not been joyned together in the communion of the same faith ; which all the apostolical churches were . but the doctrines broached by these men , were in their seeds condemned by the apostles themselves ; so marcion , apelles , and valentinus were confuted in the sadducees , and first corrupters of christianity . but the true christians could not be charged by their adversaries with holding any thing contrary to what the church received from the apostles , the apostles from christ , and christ from god. for the succession of the churches was so evident , and the chairs of the apostles so well known , that any one might satisfy his curiosity about their doctrine , especially since their authentick epistles are still preserved therein . but where a diversity of doctrine was found from the apostles , that was sufficient evidence of a false sense that was put upon the scriptures . thus tertullian lays down the rules of finding out the sense of controverted places of scripture , without the least insinuation of any infallibility placed in the guides of the church for determining the certain sense of them . but lest by this way of prescribing against hereticks , he should seem to decline the merits of the cause out of distrust of being able to manage it against them , he tells us therefore elsewhere he would set aside the ground of prescription , or just exception against their pleading , ( for so prescription signifies in him ) as against marcion and hermogenes and praxeas and refute their opinions upon other grounds . in his books against marcion , he first lays down marcions rule , as he calls it , i.e. the sum of his opinion , which was making the creator of the world , and the father of our lord jesus christ two distinct gods , the one nothing but goodness , and the other , the author of evil : which opinion he overthrows from principles of reason , because there cannot be two infinitely great , and on the same grounds he makes two he may make many more , and because god must be known by his works , and he could not be god that did not create the world ; and so continues arguing against marcion to the end of the first book . in the second he vindicates god the creator from all the objections which marcion had mustered against his goodness . in the third he proves that christ was the son of god the creator ; first by reason and then by scripture , and lays down two rules for understanding the prophetical predictions relating to the manner of expressing future things as past , and the aenigmatical way of representing plain things : afterwards he proves in the same manner from scripture and reason , that christ did truly assume our nature and not meerly in appearance ; which he demonstrates from the death and resurrection of christ and from the evidence of sense ; and makes that sufficient evidence of the truth of a body that it is the object of three senses , of sight , and touch and hearing . which is the same way of arguing we make use of against transubstantiation , and if marcion had been so subtle to have used the evasions those do in the roman church , he might have defended the putative body of christ in the very same manner that they do the being of accidents without a substance ▪ in the fourth book he asserts against marcion the authority of the gospel received in the christian church above that which marcion allowed , by the greater antiquity and the universal reception of the true gospels ; and after refutes the supposition of a twofold christ one for the jews and another for the gentiles from the comparing of scriptures together , which he doth with great diligence and answers all the arguments from thence brought by marcion , to prove that christ was an enemy to the law of moses . in his fifth and last book he proves out of the epistles of st. paul , allowed by marcion , that he preached no other god than the creator , and that christ was the son of god the creator ; which he doth from the scope and circumstances of the places without apprehending the least necessity of calling in any infallible guides to give the certain sense and meaning of them . against hermogenes , he disputes about the eternity of matter ; the controversy between them he tells us was concerning the sense of some places of scripture , which relate to the creation of things ; tertullian proves that all things were made of nothing , because it is not mentioned out of what they were made ; hermogenes proves they were made out of matter ; because it is not said they were made of nothing . to determine therefore the sense of these places tertullian shews from reason the repugnancy of the eternity of matter to the attributes of god : he compares several places of scripture together , he reasons from the manner of the expressions and the idiom of scripture . i adore , saith he , the fulness of the scripture which shews me both the maker and the thing made ; but the gospel likewise discovers by whom all things were made . but the scripture no where saith that all things were made out of matter . let the shop of hermogenes shew where it is written ; and if it be not written let him fear the wo denounced to those who add or take from what is written . he examins the several places in dispute , and by proving that sense which hermogenes put upon them to be repugnant to reason , ( as he shews to the end of that book ) he concludes his sense of scripture to be false and erroneous . against praxeas , he disputes whether god the father took our nature upon him , and the arguments on both sides are drawn from the scriptures ; but tertullian well observes , that they insisted upon two or three places of scripture , and would make all the rest though far more , to yield to them . whereas the fewer places ought to be understood according to the sense of the greater number . but this saith he , is the property of all hereticks because they can find but few places for them , they defend the smaller number against the greater : which is against the nature of a rule , wherein the first and the most , ought to oversway the latter and the fewer . and therefore he sets himself throughout that book to produce the far greater number of places of scripture , which do assert the distinction between the father and the son ; and consequently that it could not be the father who suffered for us . hitherto we find nothing said of an infallible guide to give the certain sense of scripture , when the fairest occasion was offered , by those who disputed the most concerning the sense of scripture in the age wherein they lived viz. by irenaeus and tertullian . i now proceed to clemens of alexandria who in his learned collections , proposes that objection , against christianity , that there were many heresies among christians , and therefore men could believe nothing . to which he answers , that there were heresies among the jews and philosophers ; and that objection was not thought sufficient against iudaism or philosophy , and therefore ought not to be against christianity . besides the coming of heresies was foretold , and what ever is foretold must come to pass . the physitians saith he differ in their opinions , yet men do not neglect to make use of them , when they are sick . heresies should only make men more careful what they choose . men ought thereby to endeavour the more to find out truth from falshood ; as if two sorts of fruit be offered to a man real , and waxen ; will a man abstain from both , because one is counterfeit , or rather find out the true from the apparent ? when several ways offer themselves for a man to go in , he ought not therefore to sit down and not stir a step further ; but he uses the best means to find out the true way and then walks in it . so that they are justly condemned who do not discern the true from the false ; for they who will , saith he , may find out the truth . for either there is demonstration or not ; all grant demonstration , or evidence , who do not destroy our senses ; if there be demonstration there must be search and enquiry made ; and by the scriptures we may demonstratively learn how heresies fell of , and that the exactest knowledge was to be found in the truth and the ancient church . now the true searchers will not leave till they find evidence from the scriptures . to this end , he commends the exercise of mens reason and understanding , impartiality or laying aside opinion , a right disposition of soul , for when men are given over to their lusts they endeavour to wrest the scriptures to them . but he establishes the scripture as the only principle of certainty to christians , and more credible than any demonstration : which who so have tasted are called faithful , but those who are versed in them are the truly knowing men . the great objection now is , that hereticks make use of scripture too : i but they , saith he , reject what they please , and do not follow the body and contexture of prophecy ; but take ambiguous expressions and apply them to their own opinions : and a few scattered phrases without regarding the sense and importance of them . for in the scriptures produced by them , you may find them either making use of meer names , and changing the significations of them ; never attending to the scope and intention of them . but truth , saith he , doth not lye in the change of the signification of words ( for by that means all truth may be overthrown ) but in considering what is proper and perfectly agreeable to our lord and almighty god , and in confirming every thing which is demonstrated by the scripture out of the same scriptures . wherein clemens alexandrinus lays down such rules as he thought necessary to find out the certain sense of scripture , viz. by considering the scope and coherence of the words , the proper sense and importance of them , the comparing of scripture with scripture , and the doctrine drawn from it with the nature and properties of god , all which are excellent rules , without the least intimation of the necessity of any infallible interpreter to give the certain sense of doubtful places . after this time a great dispute arose in the church about the rebaptizing hereticks , managed by the eastern and african bishops against stephen bishop of rome . here the question was about the sense of several places of scripture , and the practice of the apostles ; as appears by the epistles of cyprian and firmilian ; both parties pleading scripture and tradition for themselves . but no such thing as an infallibility in judgement was pleaded by the pope , nor any thing like it in the least acknowledged by his adversaries , who charge him , ( without any respect to his infallible guideship , ) with pride , error , rashness , impertinency , and contradicting himself . which makes baronius very tragically exclaim : and although he makes use of this as a great argument of the prevalency of tradition , because the opinion of stephen obtained in the church ; yet there is no evidence at all that any churches did submit to the opinion of stephen when he declared himself , but as appears by dionystus of alexandria's epistles , the controversy continued after his time ; and if we look into the judgement of the church in following ages , we shall find that neither stephens opinion , nor his adversaries were followed ; ( for stephen was against rebaptizing any hereticks , and the others were for rebaptizing all , because one baptism was only in the true church : ) for in the . canon of the council of nice the samosatenian baptism is pronounced null ? and the persons who received it are to be new baptized ; and the first council of arles decrees , that in case of heresy men are to receive new baptism but not otherwise : the second council of arles puts a distinction between hereticks ; decreeing that the photinians and samosatenians should be baptized again ; but not the bonofiaci no● the arians , but they were to be received upon renouncing their heresy without baptism . which seems the harder to understand since the bonosiaci were no other than photinians . the most probable way of solving it is , that these two latter sorts did preserve the form of baptism entire , but the photinians and samosatenians altered it : which st. augustin saith , is a thing to be believed . so gennadius reports it that those who were baptized without invocation of the b. trinity , were to he baptized upon their reception into the church ( not rebaptized because the former was accounted null ) of these he reckons not only the paulianists and photinians , but the bon●s●●ci too and many others . but st. basil determines the case of baptism , not from the form but from the faith which they professed ; a schismatical baptism he faith , was allowed , but not heretical , by which he means such as denyed the trinity ; and therein he saith , s. cyprian and firmilian were to blame , because they would allow no baptism among persons separated from the communion of the church . the council of laodicea decreed that the novatians , photinians , and quarto-decimans were to be received without new baptism , but not the montanists , or cataphryges : but binius saith there was one copy , wherein the photinians were left out ; and then these canons may agree with the rest ; and baronius asserts that the greater number of m. s. copies leave out photinians , and withal he proves , that the church did never allow the baptism of the photinians , though it did of the arians ; by which we see that the church afterwards did not follow that which stephen pretended to be an apostolical tradition , viz. that no hereticks should be rebaptized ; and from hence we may conclude that the pope was far from being thought an infallible guide or interpreter of scripture , either by that , or succeeding ages ; when not only single persons that were eminent guides of the church ( such as the african and eastern bishops were , ) opposed his doctrine , and slighted his excommunications , but several councils called both in the east and africa , and the most eminent councils of the church afterwards ( such as the first of arles and nice ) decreed contrary to what he declared to be an apostolical tradition . in the same age we meet with another great controversy about the sense of scripture , for paulus samosatenus openly denyed the divinity of christ and asserted the doctrine of it to be repugnant to scripture , and the ancient apostolical tradition . for this paulus revived the heresie of artemon ; whose followers , as appears by the fragment of an ancient writer against them in eusebius , ( supposed to be caius ) pleaded that the apostles were of their mind , and that their doctrine continued in the church till the time of victor , and then it began to be corrupted . which saith that writer would seem probable , if the holy scriptures did not first contradict them ; and the books of several christians before victors time . so that we see the main of the controversie did depend upon the sense of scripture which was pleaded on both sides . but what course was taken in this important controversie to find out the certain sense of scripture ? do they appeal to any infallible guides ? nothing like it . but in the councils of antioch , in the writings of dionysius of alexandria and others since , they who opposed the samosatenian doctrine endeavoured with all their strength to prove that to be the true sense of scripture , which asserted the divinity of christ. it is great pity the dispute of malchion with paulus is now lost , which was extant in eusebius his time ; but in the questions and answers between paulus and dionysius ; ( which valesius without reason suspects since st. hierome mentions his epistle against paulus ) the dispute was about the true sense of scripture which both pleaded for themselves . paulus insists on those places , which speak of the humane infirmities of christ , which he saith prove that he was meer man and not god ; the other answers that these things were not inconsistent with the being of the divine nature , since expressions implying humane passions are attributed to god in scripture : but he proves from multitude of scriptures , and reasons drawn from them that the divine nature is attributed to christ , and therefore the other places which seem repugnant to it , are to be interpreted in a sense agreeable thereto . the same course is likewise taken by epiphanius against this heresie : who saith the christians way of answering difficulties was not from their own reasons , but from the scope and consequence of scripture : and particularly adds that the doctrine of the trinity was carefully delivered in the scriptures , because god foresaw the many heresies which would arise about it . but never any controve●sie about the sense of scripture disturbed the church more , than that which the arians raised ; and if ever any had reason to think of some certain and infallible way of finding out the sense of scripture the catholick christians of that age had . i shall therefore give an account of what way the best writers of the church in that time took to find out the sense of scripture in the controverted places . of all the writers against them athanasius hath justly the greatest esteem , and petavius saith that god inspired him with greater skill in this controversie , than any others before him . the principle he goes upon in all his disputes against the arians , is this , that our true faith is built upon the scriptures , so in several places of his conference with the arian and in the beginning of his epistle to iovianus and elsewhere . therefore in the entrance of his disputations against the arians , he adviseth all that would secure themselves from the impostures of hereticks , to study the scriptures ; because those who are versed therein stand firm against all their assaults ; but they who look only at the words , without understanding the meaning of them are easily seduced by them . and this counsel he gives , after the council of nice , had decreed the arian doctrine to be heresie ; and although he saith , other ways may be used to confute it , yet because the holy scripture is more sufficient than all of them , therefore those who would be better instructed in these things , i would advise them to be conversant in the divine oracles . but did not the arians plead scripture as well as they ? how then could the scripture end this controversie , which did arise about the sense of scripture ? this objection , which is now made so much of against the scriptures , was never so much as thought of in those days ; or if it were , was not thought worth answering ; for they di● not in the least desert the proofs of scripture , because their adversaries made use of it too . but they endeavou●ed to shew that their adversaries doctrine had no solid foundation in scripture , but theirs had i.e. that the arians perverted it , because they did not examine and compare places as they ought to do , but run away with a few words without considering the scope and design of them ; or comparing them with places plainer than those were which they brought . thus when the arians objected that place my father is greater than i , athanasius bids them compare that with other places , such as my father and i are one , and who being in the form of god thought it no robbery to be equ●● with god ; and by him all things were made &c. when arius objected , to us there is but one god of whom are all things , he tel●s him , he ought to consider the following words , and one lord iesus christ by whom are all things ; from whence when arius argued that christ was only gods instrument in creating things , athanasius then bids him compare this place with another , where it is said of whom the whole body , &c. not barely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . when the arians objected , christs saying , all things are delivered to me from my father , athanasius opposes that place of st. iohn to it , by him all things were made ; thus when they objected several other places , he constantly hath recourse to iohn . , , . to phil. . . iohn . . and others which he thought the plainest places for christs eternal divinity ; and by these he proves that the other were to be interpreted , with a respect to his humane nature , and the state he was in upon earth . so that the greatest defender of the doctrine of the trinity against the arians saw no necessity at all of calling in the assistance of any infal●ible guides , to give the certain sense of scripture in these doubtful places ; but he thought the scripture plain enough to all those who would impartially examine it ; and for others who wilfully shut their eyes , no light could be great enough for them . indeed , when the arians called in the help of any of the ancient writers to justify their doctrine , then athanasius thought himself concerne● to vind●cate them ; as particularly dionysius of alexandria . but , as he saith , if they can produce scripture or reason for what they say let them do it , but if not , let them hold their peace : thereby implying that these were the only considerable things to be regarded : yet he shews at large that they abused the testimony of dionysius , who although in his letters against sabellius he spake too much the other way , yet in other of his writings he sufficiently cleared himself from being a savou●er of the arian heresie . and although athanasius doth else where say , that the faith which the catholick church then held was the faith of their fore-fathers , and descended from the apostles ; yet , he no where saith , that without the help of that tradition it had been impossible to have known the certain sense of scripture , much less without the infallible interpretation of the guides of the present church . s. hilary in his disputes against the same hereticks , professes in the beginning that his intention was to confound their rage and ignorance out of writings of the prophets and apostles : and to that end desires of his readers that they would conceive of god not according to the laws of their own beings , but according to the greatness of what he had declared of himself . for he is the best reader of scripture , who doth not bring his sense to the scripture , but takes it from it , and doth not resolve before hand to find that there , which he concluded must be the sence before he reads . in things therefore which concern god , we must allow him to know himself best , and give due reverence to his word . for he is the best witness to himself who cannot be known but by himself . in which words he plainly asserts that the foundation of our faith must be in the scriptures , and that a free and impartial mind is necessary to find out the true sense of scripture . and after he had said in the second book , that heresies arise from misunderstanding the scripture , and charged in his fourth book the arians particularly with it , he proceeds to answer all the places produced by them out of the old and new testament , by comparing several places together , and the antecedents and consequents , and by these means proving that they mistook the meaning of scripture . so in the beginning of his ninth book rehearsing the common places , which were made use of by the arians , he saith , they repeated the words alone , without enquiring into the meaning , or contexture of them ; whereas the true sense of scripture is to be taken from the antecedents and consequents : their fundamental mistake being the applying those things to his divine nature , which were spoken of his humane : which he makes good by a particular examination of the several places in controversie . the same course is taken by epiphanius , phaebadius and others of the ancient writers of the church , who asserted the eternal divinity of christ against the arians . epiphanius therefore charges them which mangling and perverting the sense of scripture ; understanding figurative expressions liter●●ly , and those which are intended in a plain sense figuratively . so that it is observable in that great controversie which disturbed the church so many years , which exercised the wits of all men in that time to find out a way to put an end to it , after the guides of the church had in the council of nice declared what was the catholick faith : yet still the controversie was managed about the sense of scripture , and no other ways made use of for finding it , than such as we plead for at this day . it is a most incredible thing , that in a time of so violent contention , so horrible confusion , so scandalous divisions in the christian church , none of the catholick bishops should once suggest this admirable expedient of infallibility . but this palladium was not then fallen down from heaven , or if it were , it was kept so secret , that not one of the writers of the christian church in that busie and disputing age discovered the least knowledge of it . unless it be said that of all times it was then least fit to talk of infallibility in the guides of the church , when they so frequently in councils contr●dicted each other . the synodical book in the new tomes of the councils , reckons up . several councils of bishops in the time of the arian controversie , whereof near . were for the arians , and the rest against them . if the sense of scripture were in this time to be taken from the guides of the church , what security could any man have against arianism ? since the councils which favoured it , were more numerous than those which opposed and condemned it . yea so mean was the opinion which some of the greatest persons of the church at that time had of the guides of the church met together in councils , that st. gregory nazianzen declares he had not seen a good issue of any of them ; but they rather increased mischief than removed any ; because of the contention and ambition which ruled in them , therefore he resolved to come no more at any of them . what ? had st. gregory so mean an esteem of the guides of the christian church to think that , ambition and contention should sway them in their councils and not the spirit of god , which certainly rules not where the other do ? yet this de declares to be his mind upon consideration and experience in that time , and if he had lived to those blessed days of the councils of latter ages , with what zeal and rhetorick would he have set them forth ? never was any answer more jejune to this testimony than that of bellarmin , viz. that forsooth there could be no lawful councils called in his time ; and why so i pray ? was there not a good authority to call them ? but if that had been the reason , he did not so little understand the way of expressing himself , to assign the cause of it to contention and ambition , if he mean quite another thing which he doth not in the least intimate . and what if he were afterwards present at the council of constantinople ? doth that shew , that his mind was in the least changed ? but in this epistle he declares , how little good was to be exspected from a council , and yet afterwards by the emperours command he might be present at one . st. augustin in dealing with maximinus the arian expresly sets aside all authority of the guides of the church , as to the sense of scripture in the places controverted between them ; for he saith , i will neither bring the authority of the council of nice , neither shall you that of ariminum ; but we will proceed by authorities of scripture that are common to both of us , and by the clearest evidence of reason . it seems then st. augustin was far from thinking that there could be no certainty of the sense of scripture if the authority of the guides of the church be set aside . but by what means doth he then think , that men may come to any certainty about the true meaning of scripture ? of that he is best able to give us an account himself having written purposely in this subject in his books of christian doctrine the substance of what he there says may be comprehended in these rules . . that the main scope of the scripture is to perswade men to the love of god and our neighbour , without which , he saith , no man doth truly understand it ; but whosoever interprets scripture to the advancing of that , though he may be mistaken as to the sense of the words , yet his errour is not dangerous . . that in order to the right understanding of scripture men must apply themselves to it with minds duly prepared for it ; by a fear of god , humility , prayer , sincerity , and purity of heart . . that all those things which are necessary to salvation are plainly laid down in holy scriptures ; this is in terms asserted by him , as a fundamental principle , that in those things which are plainly set down in scripture , all things are to be found which contain our faith and rule of life . i.e. all things which are necessary to the love of god and our neighbour , and consequently to the making us happy . and these things men ought especially to read the scriptures for ; and the more they find of them , the larger their understanding of scripture is . . that the obscure places of scripture are to be understood by the plain . for which end he requires frequent reading , and using ones self to the language of scriptures , and drawing examples from plain places to illustrate difficult , and those which are certain to clear the doubtful . for , scarce any thing , saith he , is drawn out of the most difficult places , but what is very plainly set down elsewhere . . that in regard of the infinite variety of latin interpreters ( which it seems were in his time ) in matters of doubt it was necessary to have recourse to the original hebrew and greek : the knowledge of which tongues might therefore be necessary to the knowledge of scripture , because several words are preserved untranslated ; but those being few the necessity is not so great on their account , as the diversity of interpreters ; for although those who had translated the hebrew into greek might be reckoned up , the latin interpreters could not . which diversity of translations doth rather help than hinder the understanding of scripture , if the readers of it be not negligent ; for some doubtful places are cleared by the difference of readings . . where the ambiguity lyes in proper words , the clearing of it depends on the circumstances of the place ; in so much that he determines , that it is a very rare and difficult thing to find such an ambiguity in the words of scripture , which may not be cleared from the intention of the writer , or comparing places , or searching the original language . . men must carefully distinguish between proper and figurative expressions ; for to understand figurative expressions literally is to subject our understanding to carnal conceptions of things ; and that is , saith he , a miserable slavery of mind , to take signs for things ; such signs he tells us under the gospel are the two sacraments of baptism and the lords supper . the great difficulty herein , lyes in the finding out the difference between proper and figurative expressions , for which he lays down this rule , if the words of scripture command what is good and forbid what is evil , it is no figurative expression ; but if it forbids what is good , or command any thing that is evil , it must be figuratively understood . for which he instances in those words of our saviour unless ye eat the flesh , and drink the blood of the son of man ye shall have no life in you . which seeming to command something evil , must be figuratively understood of communicating in the passion of christ , and calling to mind that his flesh was crucified and wounded for us . . there is no danger in different senses being given of the same place of scripture , if every one of those senses appear by other places to be agreeable to truth : this being supposed that the person do sincerely enquire after the sense of the author ; for , saith he , that divine spirit might easily foresee how many several senses those words are capable of , which being agreeable to other parts of scripture , though not the particular meaning of those words , the mistake cannot be dangerous therein . . where such a sense is given which cannot be proved by other certain testimonies of scripture , it must be made manifest to be the sense by clear evidence of reason . but he rather approves the way of proving the sense of scripture by other places of scripture , where the interpretation is doubtful . so that the way in doubtful places which he prescribes is this , either to draw such a sense from them as hath no dispute concerning its being a true proposition , or if it have , that it be confirmed by other places of scripture . besides these , he lays down the . rules of ticonius the donatist which are not of that consequence to be here repeated ; that which i take notice of is , that st. augustin thought the rules he gave sufficient for understanding the meaning of scripture in doubtful places ; but he doth not in the least mention the infallibility of the guides of the church as a necessary means for that end . but he doth assert in as plain terms , as i have done , that scripture is plain in all necessaries to salvation to any sober enquirer , and what ever consequences are charged upon me for making that a fundamental principle , must reflect as much upon st. augustin as me ; and i do not fear all the objections can be made against a principle so evident to reason , and so agreeable not only to st. augustin , but the doctrine of the catholick church both before and after him . the next after st. augustin who hath purposely writ of this argument about the sense of scripture is vincentius lerinensis : about . years after st. augustins death and . after the council of ephesus , who seems to attribute more to the guides of the church than st. augustin doth , yet far enough short of infallibility . he saith , that every man ought to strengthen his faith against heresie by two things , first by the authoriry of the divine law , and then by the tradition of the catholick church : which tradition he makes necessary , not by way of addition to the scripture , for he allows the perfection and sufficiency of that for all things ; but only to interpret scripture by giving a certain sense of it , there being such different opinions among men about it . for all the hereticks whom he there names had different senses of scripture , as novatianus , sabellius , donatus , arius , macedonius , photinus , &c. but then he bounds this tradition within the compass of the universal consent of antiquity as well as the present church ; or as he expresseth it , within those things which were believed every where , always , and by all persons . that we may therefore consider how far these rules of vincentius will serve for explaining the sense of scripture , we are to take notice of the restrictions he lays upon them . that they are to be taken together , and not one of them separate from the rest . as for instance , that of vniversality in any one age of the church , being taken without the consent of antiquity , is no sufficient rule , to interpret scripture by . for vincentius doth suppose that any one age of the church may be so overrun with heresie , that there is no way to confute it , but by recourse to antiquity . for in the case of the arian heresie , he grants that almost the whole church was overspread with it , and there was then no way left but to prefer the consent of antiquity before a prevailing novelty . in some cases the universal consent of the present church is to be relyed upon against the attempts of particular persons , as in that of the donatists ; but then we are to consider , that antiquity was still pleaded on the same side that vniversality was , and supposing that all the ancient church from the apostles times had been of the same mind with the donatists , the greater number of the same age opposing them , would have been no more cogent against them , than it was afterwards for the arians . it is unreasonable to believe that in a thing universally believed by all christians from the apostles times the christian church should be deceived ; but it is quite another thing to say , that the church in any one or more ages since the apostles times may be deceived ; especially if the church be confined to one certain communion excluding all others , and the persons in that church have not liberty to deliver their opinions , for then it is impossible to know what the judgement of the whole church is . and so universality is not thought by vincentius himself to be alone sufficient to determine the sense of scripture ; supposing that universality to be understood according to the honesty of the primitive times for a free and general consent of the christians of that age in which a man lives ; but since the great divisions of the christian world , it is both a very hard matter to know the consent of christendom in most of the controverted places of scripture , and withal the notion of vniversality is debauched and corrupted , and made only to signifie the consent of one great faction , which is called by the name of the catholick church , but truly known by the name of roman . . that great care and judgement must be used in the applying those rules ; for . the consent of antiquity is not equally evident in all matters in dispute , and therefore cannot be of equal use . . there are some things wherein we may be certain of such a consent , and that was in the rule of faith , as vincentius and most of the ancient writers call it i.e. the summary comprehension of a christians duty as to matters of faith , which was not so often called the symbol as the rule of faith , that i mean which was delivered to persons , who were to be baptized and received into the church , this the ancient church universally agreed in as to the substance of it . and as to this vincentius tells us his rule is especially to be understood . for saith he , this consent of antiquity is not to be sought for in all questions that may arise about the sense of scripture , but only or at least chiefly in the rule of faith : or as he elsewhere explains himself , alone or chiefly in those questions which concern the fundamentals of the catholick doctrine : which were those contained in the rule of faith , delivered to all that were to be baptized . suppose men now should stretch this rule beyond the limits assigned it by vincentius , what security can there be from him that it shall be a certain rule , who confined it within such narrow bounds ? not that i think , his rules of no use at all now ; no , i think them to be of admirable use and great importance to christianity , if truly understood and applyed . i.e. when any persons take upon them to impose any thing upon others as a necessary matter of faith to be believed by them , we can have no better rules of judgement in this case than those of vincentius are , viz. antiquity , vniversality and consent ; and whatsoever cannot be proved by these rules ought to be rejected by all christians . to make this plain , the ancient creeds we allow on both sides to have been universally received by the catholick church ; but now the church of rome adds new articles to be believed , we desire to put the whole matter upon this issue : let the popes supremacy , the roman churches infallibility , the doctrines of transubstantiation , purgatory , &c. be proved by as universal consent of antiquity as the articles of the creed are , and then let them charge us with heresie if we reject them . but we say the measure of heresie in the ancient church was the rejecting the rule of faith universally received among christians , this rule of faith , we stand to , and say no other can be made upon any pretence whatsoever , as vincentius at large proves ; but what ever things are obtruded on the belief of christians , which want that vniversal consent of antiquity , which the rule of faith had , we are bound by vincentius , from plain scripture , to shun them as prophane novelties and corruptions of the christian faith. these rules therefore are not barely allowed , but pleaded for by us , in the test of articles of faith , as to which vincentius tells us , if not the only , yet the chief use of them is . . but suppose the question be not , concerning the express articles of this rule of faith , but concerning the sense and meaning of them , how then are we to find out the consent of antiquity ? for they might all agree in the words and yet have a different notion of the things . as petavius at large proves , that there was an ancient tradition for the substance of the doctrine of the trinity , and yet he confesses that most of the writers of the ancient church did differ in their explication of it from that , which was only allowed by the council of nice : and he grants , that arius did follow the opinion of many of the ancients in the main of his doctrine , who were guilty of the same error that he was before the matter was throughly discussed . here now arises the greatest difficulty to me in this point of tradition ; the usefulness of it , i am told , is for explaining the sense of scripture : but there begins a great controversie in the church about the explication of the doctrine of the trinity , i desire to know whether vincentius his rules will help us here ? it is pleaded by st. hierome and others , that the writers of the church might err in this matter , or speak unwarily in it before the matter came to be throughly discussed ; if so , how comes the testimony of erroneous or unwary writers to be the certain means of giving the sense of scripture ? and in most of the controversies of the church this way hath been used to take off the testimony of persons , who writ before the controversie began , and spake differently of the matter in debate . i do not deny the truth of the allegation in behalf of those persons ; but to my understanding it plainly shews the incompetency of tradition for giving a certain sense of scripture , when that tradition is to be taken from the writers of the foregoing ages : and if this had been the only way of confuting arius , it is a great question how he could ever have been condemned , if petavius or st. hierome say true ? but since a general council hath determined the contrary to the opinion of these writers before , which council hath been received by the universal church , i will not deny that they had better opportunities of knowing what the sense of the ancient church was , when so many writings were extant which are now lost , than we can have at this distance ; and therefore we yield all submission to a council of that nature and proceeding in that manner which that of nice did ; who did not meerly determine that controversie by the number of writers on their side before them , but by comparing the opinions afterwards with the rule of scriptures ; and in this regard we acknowledge a great reverence due to the decrees of such general councils as that was . therefore next to the rule of faith we allow a great veneration to the determinations of lawful general councils universally received ; which vincentius himself pleads for : but supposing no general councils or such which are not allowed , or received for such ; we are yet to enquire into the ways of finding out catholick tradition , which may interpret scripture . for this end he proposes another means which is , the gathering together the opinions of those fathers alone ; who living holily , wisely and constantly in the faith and communion of the catholick church have died in that faith , or else for it . but still with this reserve , that what either all or many of them manifestly , frequently and constantly , as it were by a council of them , have confirmed by their receiving , holding , and delivering of it , that ought to be held for undoubted , certain and firm ; but whatsoever any one though holy and learned , though a bishop , confessour or martyr , hath held against the opinion of others that ought not to be looked on as the judgement of the church , but as his own private opinion , and therefore not to be followed . which words i shall not examine with all the severity that some have done , for then the proving these conditions to have been observed by any one person would require more pains , and be less capable of resolution than the matter it self is ; but i say , that in most of the controversies this day in the christian world , it may be much more satisfactory to examine the merits of the cause than the integrity of the witnesses , these conditions being supposed . and yet after all this , we must not misunderstand him , as though this way would serve to confute all heresies ; for he tells us yet farther . . this course can only hold in some new and upstart heresies i.e. in case of the pretence of some new revelation when men pretend to some special grace without humane industry to discover some divine truth , not known before ; but in case of ancient and inveterate heresies ; he saith we have no way to deal with them , but either only by scripture , or else by plain decrees of general councils , for when heresies have been of long continuance , then , saith he , we may have ground to suspect they have not dealt fairly with the testimonies of ancient times . and thus we see what vincentius hath offered towards the resolution of this great question , how we may be sure of the certain sense of scripture in controverted places ; wherein is nothing contained but what we are willing to stand to ; and very far from the least supposition of any infallibility in the present guides of the church for that end . thus far i have taken the pains to search into the opinion of the primitive church in this important controversie ; which i might carry yet farther , if it were at all needful . the substance of what is delivered by them is this , that if any controversie arise in the church concerning the sense of scripture , if the persons do not allow the scripture , then we are to proceed by the best means we can have without it , viz. the tradition of apostolical churches from the beginning ; if they do allow the scripture then we are to examine and compare places of scripture with all the care and judgement that may be . if after all this , the dispute still continues , then if it be against the ancient rule of faith universally received , that is a sufficient prescription against any opinion ; if not against the rule of faith in express words , but about the sense of it , then if ancient general councils have determined it which had greater opportunities of knowing the sense of the apostolical church than we , it is reasonable we should yield to them ; but if there have been none such , then the unanimous consent of fathers is to be taken , so it be in some late and upstart heresies , which men pretend to have by revelation or some special grace of god. now either all these means were sufficient or not to find out the sense of scripture , if not , then the ancient church was wholly defective and wanted any certain way of finding out the sense of scripture ; if these were sufficient , then there is no necessity of infallibility in the guides of the church to give us a certain sense of scripture : which was the thing to be proved . but n. o. towards the conclusion of his book produces st. augustin for the churches infallibility , in delivering the sense of scripture in obscure places ; which being contrary to what i have already said concerning him , must be examined before i conclude this discourse about the sense of scripture . the place is out of his answer to cresconius concerning the obscure point of rebaptization ; in these words , since the holy scripture cannot deceive , let whosoever is in fear of being deceived by the obscurity of this question , consult the same church about it , which church the holy scripture doth without all ambiguity demonstrate . and before , the truth of the holy scriptures is held by us in this matter , when we do that which hath pleased the vniversal church , which the authority of the scripture does commend , &c. all which is false and said to no purpose saith n. o. if the scripture be not clear in this , that this church can determine nothing in such important contests contrary to the verity of the scriptures , and that we ought to give credit to what she decides ; for then it would not be true , what he says the truth of the same scripture in this matter is held by us : and he who is in fear of being deceived by the obscurity of this question , is no way relieved in following the sentence of the churth . to which i answer , that st. augustin doth not suppose , that men cannot attain to any certainty of the the sense of scripture in this matter without the churches infallibility ; for , he saith , in the chapter preceding , that in this matter we follow the most certain authority of canonical scriptures ; but he puts the case that no certain example could be produced out of scripture , then he saith , they had the truth of the scriptures when they do that which pleased the vniversal church , &c. for the explaining st. augustins meaning , we are to consider , that there were two controversies then on foot in the church with the donatists , the one concerning rebaptization , the other concerning the church the former he looks upon as more intricate and obscure , by reason not only of the doubtfulness of scripture , but the authority of about seventy bishops of africa , who had determined for it , among whom st. cyprian was chief , which we see in all his disputes with the donatisis on this subject he is very much perplexed with ; therefore st. augustin finding that controversie very troublesome , was willing to bring it to that issue , that what the catholick church after so much discussing the point had agreed upon should be received as the truth . by this means the dispute would be brought to that other question , which he thought much more easie , viz. which was the true church , the catholick or the donatists : but by no means doth st. augustin hereby intend to make the churches authority to resolve all doubts concernig scriptures ; but he thought it much easier to prove by scripture which was the true church , than whether rebaptization were lawful or not . and accordingly his very next words are , but if you doubt whether the vniversal church be that which the scripture commends , i will load you with many and most manifest testimonies of scripture to that end . which is the design of his book of the vnity of the church : wherein he shews , that those testimonies of scripture which speak of the universality of the church , are very plain and clear : and needed no interpretation at all , that in this case we are not to regard what donatus , or parmenianus , or pontius hath said ; for neither , saith he , are we to yield to catholick bishops themselves , if they be at any time so much deceived as to hold what is contrary to canonical scriptures . by which it is evident that he supposed no infallibility in the guides of the church . and in terms he asserts , that the church is to be proved by nothing but plain scriptures , neither by the authority of optatus , or st. ambrose , or innumerable bishops , nor councils , nor miracles , nor visions and revelations , ( whatever n. o. thinks of them ) now st. augustin supposing there was much less ambiguity in scripture in the controversie of the church than in that of rebaptization , he endeavours to bring them to a resolution in the other point for the clearing of this : and so he only pursues the method laid down in the books of christian doctrine , to make use of plainer places of scripture to give light to the darker . and when they were convinced by scripture that the catholick church was the true church of christ , he doth not question but they would follow that which was the sentence of the catholick church . but here lyes the main difficulty , on what account the sentence of the church was to be followed ? in order to the resolution of it , we must take notice of these things . . that all the proofs which st. augustin brings for the church do relate only to the extent and vniversality of it , and not to any infallibility that is promised to it ; as will easily appear to any one that will read his discourses on that subject against the donatists . . that he asserts no infallibility in the highest authority of the church ; which in many places of his books of baptism against the donatists he makes to be a plenary or general council ; whose authority , he saith , was to be preferred before that of st. cyprian , or any particular councils either in his time , or before it ; which he calls the authority and decrees of the vniversal church . so that we see he resolves all the authority of the church in this matter into that of a general council : ( whether that of arles , or nice is not to my purpose to enquire ) and we shall then see what his opinion is of the churches infallibility by that which he delivers of general councils ; as well as any other church authority compared with the scriptures , in these remarkable words . who knows not that the sacred canonical scripture is contained within its certain bounds , and is so far to be preferred before all latter writings of bishops that there can be no doubt or dispute at all made , whether that be true or right which is contained therein ; but all latter writings of bishops which have been or are written , since the canon of scripture hath been confirmed , may be corrected if in any thing they err from the truth , either by the wiser discourse of any more skilful person , or the weightier authority of other bishops , or the prudence of more learned men , or by councils : and even councils themselves that are provincial yield without dispute to those which are general , and called out of all the christian world ; and of these general councils the former are often amended by the latter , when by some farther tryal of things that which was shut is laid open , and that which was hidden is made known without any swelling of sacrilegious pride , or stifness of arrogancy , or contentin of envy ; but with holy humility , catholick peace and christian charity . can any one that reads this excellent testimony of st. augustin delivered in this same matter , ever imagine he could so plainly contradict himself ; as to assert the churches infallibility in one place and destroy it in another ? would he assert that all councils how general soever may be amended by following councils , and yet bind men to believe that the decrees of the former councils do contain the unalterable will of god ? a lesser person than st. augustin would never thus directly contradict himself , and that about the very same controversie , which words of his cannot be understood of unlawful councils , of matters of fact or practice , but do refer to the great question then in debate about rebaptizing hereticks ; and hereby he takes off the great plea , the donatists made from the authority of st. cyprian and his council , which they continually urged for themselves . . he grants , that the arguments drawn from the churches authority are but humane , and that satisfaction is to be taken from the scriptures in this controversie . for mentioning the obscurity of this question , and the great debates that had been about it before the donatists time among great and good men , and diverse resolutions of councils and the settlement of it at last by a plenary council of the whole world ; but lest , saith he , i should seem to make use only of humane arguments , i produce certain testimonies out of the gospel , by which , god willing , i demonstrate how true and agreeable to his will the doctrine and practice of the catholick church is . and else where he appeals not to the judgement of men , but to the lords ballance , viz. to his judgement delivered in scripture , and in this same case when he was urged by the authority of cyprian , he saith , there are no writings they have not liberty to judge of , but those of scripture , and by them they are to judge of all others , and what is agreeable to them they receive , what is not they reject , though written by persons of never so great authority . and after all this is it possible to believe that st. augustin should make the churches decree in a general council infallible ? no : the utmost by a careful consideration of his mind in this matter that i can find , is ; that in a question of so doubtful and obscure a nature as that was , which had been so long bandied in the churches of africa , and from thence spread over all the churches of the christian world , it was a reasonable thing to presume that what the whole christian world did consent in was the truth , not upon the account of infallibility , but the reasonable supposition that all the churches of the christian world , would not consent in a thing repugnant to any apostolical doctrine or tradition . and so st. augustins meaning is the same with vincentius lerinensis as to the universal attestation of the christian church in a matter of tradition ; being declared by the decree of a general council , and that decree universally received but only by the litigant parties in africa . to which purpose it is observable that he so often appeals to the vniversal consent of christians in this matter ; after it had been so throughly discussed and considered , by the most wise and disinteressed persons , and that consent declared by a plenary council before himself was born . so that if authority were to be relyed upon in this obscure controversie , he saith , the authority of the universal church was to be preferred , before that of several councils in africa , of the bishops and particularly st. cyprian who met in them . and whereas st. cyprian had slighted tradition in this matter , christ having called himself truth and not custom , st. augustin replys to him ; that the custom of the church having been always so and continuing after such opposition and confirmed by a general council , and after examination of the reasons and testimonies of scripture on both sides , it may be now said , that we follow what truth hath declared . wherein we see with what modesty and upon what grounds he declares his mind , which at last comes to no more than vincentius his rules of antiquity , vniversality and consent . especially in such a matter as this was , which had nothing but tradition to be pleaded for it , the apostles , having determined nothing of either side , in their books as st augustin himself at last confesses in this matter . the most then that can be made of the testimony alledged out of st. augustin is this , that in a matter of so doubtful and obscure a nature wherein the apostles have determined nothing in their writings , we are to believe that to be the truth , which the universal church of christ agreed in those times , when the consent of the universal church was so well known by frequent discussion of the case and coming at last to a resolution in a general council . in such a case as this , i agree to what st. augustin saith , and think a man very much relieved by following so evident a consent of the universal church : not by vertue of any infallibility , but the unreasonableness of believing so many , so wise , so disinteressed persons should be deceived . let the same evidences be produced for the consent of the vniversal church from the apostolical times in the matters in dispute between our church and that of rome , and the controversie of infallibility may be laid aside ; for such an universal consent of the christian church i look upon as the most authentick interpreter of holy scripture in doubtful and obscure places . but let them never think to fob us off , with the consent of the roman faction for the vniversal church , nor of some latter ages , for a tradition from apostolical times , nor of a packed company of bishops for a truly general council . and thus much may now serve to clear that important controversie about the sense of scripture in doubtful places . the last thing to be considered is , whether the same arguments which overthrow infallibility , do likewise destroy all church-authority ? for this is by n. o. frequently objected against me ; for , he saith , thus it happens more than once in these principles laid down by me , that in forward a zeal in demolishing the one , viz. church infallibility , the other is also dangerously undermined , viz. church-authority . and therefore out of his singular regard to the good of our church , he saith , it concerns my superior to look to it , whether their churches and their own authority suffers no detriment from my principles , and , again , he saith , my principles against infallibility conclude , the uselessness of any ecclesiastical authority to teach men , as of an infallible to assure men of the truth of those things , which by using only their own sincere endeavour they may know without them . and lastly , he saith , my principles afford no effectual way or means of suppressing or convicting any schism , sect or heresie , or reducing them either to submission of judgement or silence . and therefore he desires the prudent to consider ; whether the authority of the church of england is not much debilitated and brought into contempt , and daily like to wane more and more by this new taken up way of its defence . my answer is , that i have carefully examined and searched my principles and find no such gunpowder in them for blowing up authority either of church or state. for all that i can discover , they are very innocent and harmless ; and if all other mens had been so , we had never heard so much talk of this way , of undermining and blowing up . but is it not a pleasant thing to see , all of a sudden , what zeal these men discover for the preservation of our churches authority ? alas good men ! it grieves them at the very heart , to see the authority of our church weakned and that by its own members . what would not they do for the strengthening and upholding of it ? what pity it is , such a church should not stand , whose very enemies take such care for its preservation ; and are so ready to discover the pl●ts of its own children against it ? b●t to be ●ure , there is mischief intended when enemies discover it ; not by those whom they accuse , but by the honest informers ; who would be content to hold their peace , if they thought they could not sow mischief by pretending to discover it . it is a pretty plot to make those who design to defend our church to be the underminers of it , and the most professed enemies its surest friends . but such plots are too fine to hold , and too thin not to be seen through . how is it i beseech n. o. that my principles undermine all church authority ? have i any where made the church a meer shadow , and an insignificant cypher , a society depending only on the pleasure of men for its subsistence and authority ? this had been indeed to the purpose , but not the least word tending that way can be drawn out of any principles of mine . for i verily believe that the church is a society instituted by christ himself , and invested with authority necessary for its government and preservation . but though i cannot deny such an authority i may render it wholly useless . i cannot conceive any such malignant influence in any principles of mine , but if there be , it must be from one of these things . . either because i deny infallibility in the guides of the church . or . because i say that the scriptures are plain in things necessary to salvation . or . because i deny the authority of the church of rome . or . because i am not for such an effectual way of suppressing sects and heresies as is in use in the roman church . but i hope to make it appear that none of these do in the least tend to weaken , or bring into contempt the church of engl●nds authority , nor the just authority of any church in the world. . not the denial of infallibility . this n. o. seems to suppose to be the very faux in the gunpowder plot , the instrument of setting all on fire . but is there any thing peculiar to my principles herein ? have not all who have written against the church of rome opposed the pretence of infallibility ? how then come my principles to be of so mischievous a nature above others ? but i pray , sir , are authority and infallibility all one in your account ? we suppose that magistrates and parents , and masters have all of them an unquestionable authority but i never heard yet of any man that said they wre infallible : or that there was no ground to obey them , if they were not . why may we not then allow any authority belonging to the governours of the church , and yet think it possible for them to be deceived ? is this a sufficient reason for any man to cast off his subjection to his prince , because it 's possible he may require something unlawful ? or to disobey his parents , because they do not sit in an infallible chair ? or to slight his master , because he is not pope ? these are strange ways of arguing about matters of religion , which are ridiculous in any other case . if the possibility of being deceived destroys no other authority in the world , why should it do that of the church ? the magistrate does not lose his authority though we say we are to obey god rather than men , and consequently to examine whether the laws of men are not repugnant to the laws of god , which implys that he may require what it is our duty not to do . the authority of parents is not destroyed , because in some cases we are bound to disobey them , when they command men to destroy or rise up in arms against their soveraign . how comes it then to pass , that all church-authority is immediately gone , if we do but suppose a possibility of errour in those which have it ? but it may be said it is their office to be guides , and if we do not follow them absolutely , we renounce them from being our guides . to which i answer , there are two sorts of persons that stand in need of guides , the blind and the ignorant ; the blind must follow their guides because of an incapacity of seeing their way , the ignorant for want of instruction . yet neither of these are bound to believe their guides infallible , and to follow them at all adventures . for even the blind by their own sad experience of frequent falling into ditches or knocking their heads against posts may have reason to question , if not the skill , yet the sincerity of their guides , and though they must have some , may seek new ones . the ignorant follow their guides only upon the opinion of their skill and integrity ; and when they see reason to question these , they know of no obligation to follow their conduct over rocks and precipices ; if they are so careless of their own welfare , others are not bound to follow them therein . but we are not to presume persons so wholly ignorant , but they have some general rules by which to judge of the skill and fidelity of their guides . if a person commits himself to the care of a pilot to carry him to constantinople because of his ignorance of the sea , should this man still rely upon his authority , if he carried him to find out the north west passage ? no : though he may not know the particular coasts so well ; yet he knows the east and west , the north and south from each other . if a stranger should take a guide to conduct him from london to york , although he may not think fit to dispute with him at every doubtful turning , yet is he bound to follow him when he travels all day with the sun in his face ? for although he doth not know the direct road , yet he knows that he is to go northward . the meaning of all this is , that the supposition of guides in religion doth depend upon some common principles of religion that are or may be known to all , and some precepts so plain that every christian without any help may know them to be his duty ; within the compass of these plain and known duties , lyes the capacity of persons judging of their guides ; if they carry them out of this beaten way , they have no reason to rely upon them in other things : if they keep themselves carefully within those bounds , and shew great integrity therein , then in doubtful and obscure things they may with more safety rely upon them . but if they tell them they must put out their eyes to follow them the better , or if they kindly allow them to keep their eyes in their heads , yet they must believe them against their eye-sight , if they perswade them to break plain commands of god and to alter the institutions of christ , what reason can there be that any should commit themselves to the absolute conduct of such unfaithful guides ? and this is not to destroy all authority of faithful guides , for they may be of great use for the direction of unskilful persons in matters that are doubtful and require skill to resolve them , but it is only to suppose that their authority is not absolute nor their direction infallible . but if we take away this infallible direction from the guides of the church , what authority is there left them ? as much as ever god gave them , and if they will not be contented with that , we cannot help it ; and that it may appear how vain and frivolous these exceptions are , i shall now shew what real authority is still left in the governours of the church , though infallibility be taken away . and that lyes in three things . . an authority of inflicting censures upon offenders ; which is commonly called the power of the keys , or of receiving into and excluding out of the communion of the church . this the church was invested with by christ himself , and is the necessary consequence of the being and institution of a christian society , which cannot be preserved in its purity and peace without it . which authority belongs to the governours of the church , and however the church in some respects be incorporated with the common-wealth in a christian state , yet its fundamental rights remain distinct from it : of which this is one of the chief to receive into and exclude out of the church such persons which , according to the laws of a christian society , are fit to be taken in or shut out . . an authority of making rules and canons about matters of order and decency in the church . not meerly in the necessary circumstances of time and place , and such things the contrary to which imply a natural indecency ; but in continuing and establishing those ancient rites of the christian church , which were practised in the early times of christianity , and are in themselves of an indifferent nature . which authority of the church hath been not only asserted in the articles of our church , but strenuously defended against the trifling objections of her enemies , from scripture , antiquity and reason . and i freely grant , not only that such an authority is in it self reasonable and just ; but that in such matters required by a lawful authority ( such as that of our church is ) there is an advantage on the side of authority , against a scrupulous conscience , which ought to over-rule the practice of such who are the members of that church . . an authority of proposing matters of faith and directing men in religion . which is the proper authority of teachers , and guides , and instructers of others ; which may be done several ways , as by particular instruction of doubtful persons , who are bound to make use of the best helps they can , among which that of their guides is the most ready and useful , and who are obliged to take care of their souls , and therefore to give the most faithful advice and counsel to them . besides this , there is a publick way of instructing by discourses grounded upon scripture to particular congregations , assembled together for the worship of god in places set apart for that end and therefore called churches . and those who are duly appointed for this work , and ordained by those whose office is to ordain , viz. the bishops , have an authority to declare what the mind and will of god is , contained in scripture in order to the salvation and edification of the souls of men . but besides this , we may consider the bishops and representative clergy of a church as met together for reforming any abuses crept into the practice of religion or errours in doctrine ; and in this case we assert that such a synod or convocation hath the power and authority within it self ( especially having all the ancient rights of a patriarchal church ) when a more general consent cannot be obtained to publish and declare what those errours & abuses are , & to do as much as in them lyes to reform them , viz. by requiring a consent to such propositions as are agreed upon for that end , of those who are to enjoy the publick offices of teaching and instructing others . not to the end that all those propositions should be believed as articles of faith ; but because no reformation can be effected , if persons may be allowed to preach and officiate in the church in a way contrary to the design of such a reformation . and this is now that authority we attribute to the governours of our church , although we allow no infallibility to them . and herein we proceed in a due mean between the extremes of robbing the church of all authority of one side ; and advancing it to infallibility on the other . but we cannot help the weakness of those mens understanding , who cannot apprehend that any such thing as authority should be left in a church , if we deny infallibility . other diseases may be cured , but natural incapacity cannot . . not , the making scriptures plain to all sober enquirers in matters necessary to salvation . this is that principle which n. o. makes such horrible out-crys about , as though it were the foundation of all the heresies and sects in the world. this , he saith , makes all ecclesiastical authority useless ; for what need is there of bishops , presbyters , or any ecclesiastical pastors among protestants , as to the office of teaching or expounding these writings , if these in all necessaries are clear to all persons , who desire to know the meaning of them : but not content with this modest charge in comparison , in another treatise ; he makes this the very heighth of fanaticism , in spight of mother iuliana and their legendary saints : because , forsooth , this is to ground all our religion upon our own fancies , enquiring into the true sense of divine revelation ; and therefore , good man , seems troubled at it , that he can by no means in the world absolve me from being not only a fanatick , but a teacher of fanaticism . in earnest , it was happily found out , to return this heavy charge back upon my self with so much rage and violence ; ( for although n. o. be a modest man , yet s. c. is a meer fury ) for not meerly fanaticism , pure putid fanaticism follows from this principle , fanaticism without vizard or disguise , and all this demonstratively proved from this principle , but all our church is immediately gone with it ; men may talk of dangerous plots for undermining and blowing up of towns and forts and parliaments , but what are all those to the blowing up a whole church at once ? for since that train of my principles hath been laid , nothing like the old church of engl●nd hath been seen . it is true , there are the same bishops , the same authority , the same liturgy and ceremonies , the same ●●●achers and officers that were ; but what are all these to the church of england ? for from hence it follows ( if we believe s. c. ) that the ●overnours of our church have no authority to teach truth , or to condemn er●●urs ; and a●l the people are become prophets , and all their articles , constitutions and ordinances have been composed and enjoyned by an usurped authority . very sad consequences truly ! but like deep plots they lye very far out of sight . for to my understanding , not one of these dismal things follows any more from my principles , than from proving that s. c. and n. o. both stand for the same person . which will easily appear to any one ●●e that will but consider . . the intention of those principles . . the just consequence of them . . the intention of those principles ; which was plainly to lay down the foundations of a christians faith living in the communion of our church ; ( which is expressed in as perspicuous terms before them as may be ; ) and to shew that the roman churches infallibility is no necessary foundation of faith. now , this being the design of those principles , to what purpose should i have gone about therein , to have stated the nature and bounds of the authority of particular churches . i no where in the least exclude the use of all means and due helps of guides and others for the understanding the sense of scripture ; and i no where mention them ; because my business was only about the foundation of faith , and whether infallibility was necessary for that or no ? if i have proved it was not , i have gained my design ; for then those who deny the church of romes infallibility may never the less have a sure foundation , or solid principles to build their faith upon . now to what purpose in an account of the principles of faith should i mention those things , which we do not build our faith upon , i mean the authority of our guides ; for although we allow them all the usefulness of helps ; yet those are no more to be mentioned in the principles of resolving faith , than eulids master was to be mentioned in his demonstrations . for although he might learn his skill from him ; yet the force of his demonstrations did not depend upon his authority . i hope it now appears , how far i am from making church-authority useless ; but i still say our faith is not to be resolved into it , and therefore is not to be reckoned as a principle or foundation of faith. to that end it is sufficient to prove . that men in the due use of means , whom i call sober enquirers , may without any infallible church , believe the scriptures , and understand what is necessary to their salvation herein : if this may be , then i say it follows ( princ. . ) that there can be no necessity supposed of any infallible society of men , either to attest or explain these writings , among christians . not one word that takes away the use of authority in the church , but only of infallibility ; but it may be said that although it might not be my intention , yet it may be the just consequence of the principles themselves . therefore i shall now prove that no consequence drawn from them can infer this . for what if all those things which are necessary to salvation are plain in scripture , to all that sincerely endeavour to understand them , doth it hence follow that there can be no just authority in a church , no use of persons to instruct others , must all the people become prophets and no bounds be set to the liberty of prophesying ? these are bad consequences ; but the comfort is , they are not true . if i should say that the necessary rules for a mans health are so plainly laid down by hippocrates , that every one that will take the pains may understand them ; doth this make the whole profession of physick useless , or license every man to practise physick that will , or make it needless to have any professours in that faculty ? when the philosophers of old did so frequently inculcate that the necessaries for life were few and easie ; did this make all political government useless , and give every man power to do what he pleased ? men of any common understanding would distinguish between the necessaries of life and civil society ; so would any one but s. c. or n. o. of the necessaries to salvation , and to the government of the church ; for men must be considered first as christians , and then as christians united together : as in civil societies they are to be considered first as men , and then as cives ; to say , that a man hath all that is necessary to preserve his life as a man , doth not overthrow the constitution of a society , although it implys that he might live without it : so when men are considered barely as christians no more ought to be thought necessary for them as such , but what makes them capable of salvation ; but if we consider them as joyning together in a christian society , then many other things are necessary for that end : for then there must be authority in some and subjection in others , there must be orders and constitutions , whereby all must be kept within their due bounds , and there must be persons appointed to instruct the ignorant , to satisfy the doubting , to direct the unskilful , and to help the weak . it belongs to such a society not barely to provide for necessity but safety , and not meerly the safety of particular persons but of it self ; which cannot be done without prudent orders , fixing the bounds of mens imployments , and not suffering every pretender to visions and revelations to set up for a new sect , or which is all one a new order of religious men . how comes it now to pass that by saying that men , considered barely as christians , may understand all that is necessary to their salvation , i do overthrow all authority of a church and make all men prophets ? do i in the least mention mens teaching others , or being able themselves to put a difference , between what is so necessary and what not ; or doth s. c. suppose that all that understand what is necessary to salvation have no need to be ruled and governed ? if he thinks so , i assure him i am quite of another opinion , and do make no question but that government ought to be preserved in a church , though the necessaries to salvation be known to all in it ; and so i suppose doth any one else that in the least considers what he says . by this we see , that s. c ' s. recrimination of fanaticism on our church , by vertue of this principle is as feeble as the defence he hath made for his own , of which he may hear in due time . but if there be any fanaticism in this principle , we have the concurrence of the greatest and wisest persons of the christian church in it : two of them especially have in terms said as much as i have done , st. augustin in his books of christian doctrine already mentioned : and st. chrysostome in as plain words as may be . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . all things are plain and right in the holy scriptures ; all necessary things are manifest . let s. c. now charge all the dreadful consequences of this principle on st. chrysostome , and tell him that he destroyed all church-authority , and laid the foundation for the height of fanaticism ? nay s. chrys●stome goes much higher than i do , for he saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. if i had made the guides of the church so useless as st. chrysostome seems to do in these words what passionate and hideous out-crys would , s. c. have made ? and by this let the skill or ingenuity of s. c. be tryed , who says , that i cannot find out one single short sentence in antiquity to support the main pillar of my religion , which he supposes this principle to be ; and for the finding out the sense of scripture without the help of infallibility , i have produced more out of antiquity in this discourse , than either he or his whole partie will be able to answer . . not the denying the authority of the church of rome . which i must do till i see some better proofs for it , than i have ever yet done . but how doth this , destroy all authority in a church ? can there be none , but what is derived from rome ? i do not think , i do in the least diminish the kings authority , by denying that he derives it from the cham of tartary , or the great mogol : although they may challenge the lordship of the whole earth to themselves : and may pretend very plausible reasons that it would be much more for the quiet and conveniency of mankind to be all under one universal monarch , and that none have so fair a pretence to it , as they that have challenged the right of it to themselves : and yet for all this , i do verily believe the king hath an unquestionable right to his kingdom , and a just authority over all his subjects . the time was when the first of genesis would serve to prove the popes title , and the suns ruling by day was thought a clear argument for his supremacy ; but the world is now altered and all the wit and subtility that hath been since used hath not been able to make good that crackt title of universal pastorship , which the bishops of rome have taken to themselves . but although we disown the popes authority as an unjust usurpation , we assert and plead for the authority of the church and the bishops who are placed therein , who derive their power to govern the church from christ and not from the pope . and i dare appeal to any person , whether the asserting the bishops deriving their authority from christ or from the pope , be the better way of defending their power ? we are not now disputing what authority were fit to be entrusted in the popes hands , supposing all other differences composed , and that things were in the same state wherein they were in the times of the . general councils ; in which case , it ought to be considered , how far it might be convenient to give way to such an authority so apt to grow extravagant , and which hath been stretched so very far beyond what the canons allowed , that it hath challenged infallibility to it self ; but the thing at present under debate , is , whether the disallowing the papal hierarchy doth overthrow all authority in the episcopal ; which is in effect to ask , whether there be any other power besides the popes in the church ? for if there be any other , the denying the popes authority over us cannot in the least diminish the just authority of bishops . the only considerable question in this case , is , whether the rejecting that hierarchy which was in being at the the time of the reformation , doth not make way for the peoples rejecting the authority of our bishops , and consequently no authority in the church can be maintained , unless we again yield to the papal authority . this i suppose to be n. o. meaning , when he tells us by church-authority he means that superior and more comprehensive body of the ecclesiastical hierarchy ; which in any dissent and division of the clergy , according to the church canons ought to be obeyed . and any particular church divided from this more universal cannot with the least pretence of reason challenge submission from her subjects , since she her self ( and particularly the church of england ) refused the same to all the authority extant in the world , when she separated her self . to this i answer , that the church of england in reforming her self did not oppose any just authority then extant in the world. it is to no purpose to make s●ch loud clamours about our churches refusing submission to all the authority then extant in the world , unless there be better evidence produced for it , than we have yet seen . for it is very well known that the dispute was then concerning the popes supremacy over our church , which we have all along asserted to have been a notorious encroachment upon the liberties of our church . and the popes usurpations were 〈◊〉 injurious both to the ecclesiastical and civil government , that those who adhered to the religion of the roman church yet agreed to the rejecting that authority which he challenged in england . which is sufficiently known to have been the beginning of the breach , between the two churches . afterwards , when it was thus agreed that the bishop of rome had no such authority as he challenged , what should hinder our church from proceeding in the best way it could for the reformation of it self ? for the popes supremacy being cast out as an usurpation , our church was thereby declared to be a free church , having the power of government within it self . and what method of proceeding could be more reasonable in this case , than by the advice of the governours of the church and by the concurrence of civil authority to publish such rules and articles , according to which religion was to be professed and the worship of god setled in england ? and this is that which n. o. calls refusing submission to all the authority then extant in the world ; was all the authority then extant , shut up in the popes breast ? was there no due power of governing left , because his unjust power was cast off , and that first by bishops , who in other things adhered to the roman church ? but they proceeded farther and altered many things in religion against the consent of the more vniversal church . it is plain since our church was declared to be free they had a liberty of enquiring and determining things fittest to be believed and practised ; this then could not be her fault . but in those things they decreed , they went contrary to the consent of the vniversal church : here we are now come to the merits of the cause ; and we have from the beginning of the reformation defended , that we rejected nothing but innovations , and reformed nothing but abuses . but the church thought otherwise of them . what church i pray ? the primitive and apostolical ? that we have always appealed to and offered to be tryed by . the truly catholick church of all ages ? that we utterly deny to have agreed in any one thing against the church of england . but the plain english of all is , the church of rome was against the church of england ; and no wonder , for the church of england was against the church of rome ; but we know of no fault we are guilty of therein ; nor any obligation of submission to the commands of that church . and n. o. doth not say , that we opposed the whole church , but the more vniversal church , i. e. i suppose the greater number of persons at that time . but doth he undertake to make this good , that the greater number of christians , then in the world , did oppose the church of england ? how doth he know that the eastern , armenian , abyssin and greek churches did agree with the church of rome against us ? no : that is not his meaning ; but by the more vniversal church , he fairly understands no more but the church of rome . and that we did oppose the doctrine and practices of the church of rome we deny not ; but we utterly deny that to be the catholick church ; or that we opposed any lawful authority in denying submission to it . but according to the canons of the church we are to obey , in any dissent or division of the clergy , the superior and more comprehensive body of the ecclesiastical hierarchy . what he means by this , i do not well understand , either it must be the authority of the pope and councils of the roman church , or a general council of all the catholick church . for the first , we owe no obedience to them , for the second , there was no such thing then in the world , and therefore could not be opposed . and for the canons of the catholick councils before the breaches of christendom , no church hath been more guilty of a violation of them , than the church of rome , since the rules of the fathers have been turned into the royalties of s. peter . we are no enemies to the ancient patriarchal government of the christian church , and are far more for preserving the dignity of it , than the roman church can be : for we should think it a happy state of the christian church , if all the patriarchs did enjoy their ancient power and priviledges , and all christendom would consent to a truly free and general council ; which we look on as the best expedient on earth , for composing the differences of the christian world , if it might be had . but we cannot endure to be abused by meer names of titular patriarchs , but real servants and pensionaries of the popes , with combinations of interested parties instead of general councils , with the pleasure of popes instead of ancient canons . let them reduce the ancient government of the church within its due bounds ; let the bishop of rome content himself with the priviledges he then en●oyed ; let debates be free and bishops assemble with an equal proportion out of all churches of christendom ; and if we then oppose so gener●l a consent of the christian church , let them charge us with not submitting to all the authority extant of the world . but since , the state of christendom hath been so much divided , that a truly general council is next to an impossible thing , the church must be reformed by its parts , and every free church , enjoying the rights of a patriarchal see , hath according to the canons of the church a sufficient power to reform all abuses within it self , when a more general consent cannot be obtained . by this we may see how very feeble this charge is of destroying all church-authority by refusing submission to the roman hierarchy : and how very pityful an advantage can from hence be made by the dissenting parties among us , who decry that patriarchal and ancient government as anti-christian which we allow as prudent and christian. but of the difference of these two case , i have spoken already . . but yet n. o. saith , my principles afford no effectual way or means in this church of suppressing or convicting any schism , sect or heresie , or reducing them either to submission of judgement or silence : therefore my principles are dest●●ctive to all church-authority . to which i answer , . that the design of my principles was to lay down the foundations of faith , and not the means of suppressing heresies . if i had laid down the foundations of peace and left all persons to their own judgements without any regard to authority , this might have been justly objected against me ; but according to this way , it might have been objected to aristotle that he was an enemy to civil government , because he doth not lay down the rules of it in his logick , or that hippocrates favoured the chymists and mountebanks , because he saith not a word of the colledge of physitians . if i had said any thing about the authority of particular churches , or the ways of suppressing sects ; then how insultingly had i been asked ; what is all this to the foundations of faith ? excellent protestant principles of faith ! they begin now to resolve faith into the authority of their own church : or else to what end is this mentioned , where nothing is pretended to but laying down the foundations on which protestants do build their faith ? but although there be no way of escaping impertinent objections , yet it is some satisfaction to ones self to have given no occasion for them . . i would know what he understands by his effectual means of suppressing sects or heresies . we are sure the meer authority of their church hath been no more effectual means , than that of ours hath been ; but there is another means they use which is far more effectual viz. the inquisition . this in truth is all the effectual means they have above us ; but god keep us from so barbarous and diabolical a means of suppressing schisms ; the sanbenits have not more pictures of devils upon them , than the inquisition it self hath of their spirit in it ; however that gracious pope paul . attributed the settling of it in spain to the inspiration of the holy ghost ; not that holy ghost certainly , that came down from heaven upon the apostles ; but that which was conveyed in a portmantue from rome to the council of trent . but if this be the effectual means he understands , i hope he doth not think it any credit to the authority of their church , that all who dispute it must endure a most miserable life or a most cruel death . all the other means they have are but probable ; but this , this is the most effectual . how admirably do fire and faggots end controversies ! no general council signifies half so much as a court of inquisition ; and the pope himself is not near so good a judge of controversies as the executioner , and dic ecclesiae is nothing to take him gaoler . these have been the kind , the tender , the primitive , the christian means of suppressing sects and heresies in the roman church ! o how compassionate a mother is that church , that takes her froward children in her hands to dash their brains against the stones ! o how pleasant a thing it is for brethren to be destroyed for lack of vnity ! how beautiful upon the . mountains are the feet of those who shed the blood of hereticks ! never were there two men had a more catholick spirit , than dioclesian and bishop bonner . men may talk to the worlds end of councils and fathers and authority of the church and i know not what insignificant nothings ; come , come , there is but one effectual means , which the good cardinal baronius suggested to his holiness , arise peter , kill and eat . let the hereticks talk of the kind and merciful spirit of our saviour who rebuked his disciples so sharply for calling for fire from heaven upon the samaritans , and told them they did not know what spirit they are of : let them dispute never so much against the cruelty and unreasonableness of such a way of confuting them ; let them muster up never so many sayings of fathers against it ; yet when all is done , what ever becomes of christianity , it was truly said of paul . that the authority of the roman see depends only upon the office of the inquisition . and that we may think , he was in good earnest when he said it , onuphrius tells us it was part of the speech he made to the cardinals before his death . was not this think we , a true vicar of christ ? a man of an apostolical spirit ? that knew the most effectual means of suppressing heresies and schisms and advancing the authority of the roman see. and that we may not think their opinion is altered in this matter , one of the late consulters of the inquisition hath determined that the practice of the roman church in the office of the inquisition is reasonable , pious , useful , and necessary ; which he proves by the testimony of their greatest doctors . and by which we may easily judge what n. o. and his brethren think to be the most effectual means of suppressing sects and heresies , with the want of which we are contented to be upbraided . but setting this aside we have as many reasonable means , and i think many more of convicting dissenters , than they can pretend to , in the roman church . . it is very well known that we do endeavour , as much as lyes in us , to reclaim all dissenters ; but god never wrought miracles to cure incorrigible persons , and would not have us to go out of the way of our duty to suppress sects and heresies . the greatest severities have not effected it , ( which made one of the inquisitors in italy complain that after . years experience , wherein they had destroyed above . persons for heresie , ( as they call it ) it was so far from being suppressed or weakned that it was extremly strengthened and increased . what wonder is it then , if dissenters should yet continue among us , who do not use such barbarous ways of stopping the mouths of hereticks with burning lead , or silencing them by a rope and flames . but we recommend as much as they can do to the people the vertues of humility , obedience , due submission to their spiritual pastors and governours , and that they ought not to usurp their office , and become their own guides : which n. o. in his conclusion blames us for not doing . yet we do not exact of them a blind obedience , we allow them to understand the nature and doctrine of christianity , which the more they do , we are sure they will be so much the better christians and the more easily governed . so that we have no kind of controversie about church-authority it self but what it is , and in what manner , and by whom to be exercised ; but surely n. o. had little to say , when from laying down the principles of faith , he charges me with this most absurd consequence of destroying all church-authority . i have thus far considered the main foundations upon which n. o. proceeds in opposition to my principles , there is now very little remaining which deserves any notice : and that which seems to do it as about negative articles of faith , and the marks of the true church i shall have occasion to handle them at large in the following discourse . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e ha●●●mull . hist iesuit . ordin . c. . s. c. p. . s. c. p. . roman doctrine of repentance , &c. vindicated p. . p. . p. . p. ● . et quamvis sine sacramento poenitentiae per se ad justificationem perducere peccatorem nequeat ( attritio ) ; tamen cum ad dei gratiam in sacramento poe●ite●tiae impetrandam disponit . concil . trident. sess . . c. . * si quis dixerit sacramenta novae legis non continere gratiam quam significant , aut gratiam ipsam non ponentibus obicem non conf●rre — anathema sit . sess. . can. . si quis dix●rit non dari gratiam per hujus modi sacramenta semper & omnibus , qua●tum est ex parte dei , etiamsi ritè ea suscipiant , sed aliquando & aliquibus , a●athemae sit . can. . sess. . c. . p. . melch. cano relect. de poenit. part . . p. . morinus de poenit. sacramento l. . c. . n. . la morale de iesuits ●●v . . ch . . ● . . layman . theol. moral . l. . tract . . c. . sect . . tolet. summ cas. l. . c ▪ . morinus de poenit. l. . c. . n. . lugo de poenit. disp . . sect . . n. . o. n. p. . lugo disp . . sect . . n. . sect. . n. . greg. de valent. tom. . disp . . q. . pua● . . sect . secundo potest . morin . de poenit . l. . c. . n. . id. ib. n. . sacramentorum evangelicorum supra legaliaa praestantiam & praerogativam in hoc potissimum fulgere , quod evangelica gravissimo contritionis , & dilectionis dei jugo nos liberaverint . morin . de poenit. l. . c. . n. . index exp●rg : alex. . n. . . ribadin . 〈…〉 l. . c. ● . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . sanctissi●●● domini n. d. innocenti● divina providentia pap● . . declaratio nullitatis articulorum nuperae pacis germaniae religioni catholicae , sedi apostolicae , ecclesiis , aliisque l●●is piis ac personis , & iuribus ecclesiasticis quomodo libet praejudicialium . romae ex typographiâ reverend . can●●● apostolicae . a. d. . p. . book of hom. second tome . p. . p. . p. ● . p. . appeal p. . answer to the gagg . p. . p. . concil . trident . sess . . can . . sess . . can . . v. vasquez . in . p. thom. disp . . c. . n. . vasquez . in . p th. disp . . c. . est. in sente●t . l. . disti . . sect . . aug. ●l . . c. epist. pa●●ca . c. . . c. donat. l . c. . l. c. ● . aug. e●ist . . epist. . c. c●ss . l. . c. . . co●ex ca● . eccles. a●ic . c. . apud . ba●samon . et zonar . ● . . hallier de ordi● . sacris . p. . sect. . c. . ss . . n. . p. . sect . . c. . sect . . . sect. . c. . s●ct . . to. aquin. suppl . q. . art . . 〈…〉 . l. . ●●ist . . q. . mori● . d● sacris ordi●at . pa● . . exercit . . c. . n. exer●it . . c. . n. . extra● . de temp . 〈◊〉 . c. quod trasl . morin . de sacris ordinat . part . . c. . . . leo allatius de aetat : et inte●st . in collat : ordin . p. . . isaaac . habert . po●tifical . graec. in praef . morin . de sacris ordin . p. . c. . notes for div a -e §. ● of the nature of these answers . §. . of their common way of answering our books . §. . of their ca●●mnies against me . mat. . . j●h . . §. . expo●ing fanaticism no disservice to christianity . dr. 〈◊〉 against dr. stilling●●●t . p. . m●●●h . ca● . loc . t●col . l. . p. . lud. viv. a●trad . 〈◊〉 . l. . dr. 〈◊〉 princip . con●id . 〈◊〉 . notes for div a -e §. . the insufficiency of his way of answering . p. . st. against st. p. . §. . no contratradiction about the charge of idolatry . rational account . p. , . §. . the sophistical cavils in this argument . tit. . . §. . a distinct answer to his propositions . §. . in what sense the church of rome is owned by us as a true church . rational account . p. . §. . his appendix considered . dr. st. against dr. st. p. . roman idolatry . p. . . edi● . isa. ▪ , . deut. . , . 〈◊〉 ▪ . § . the second contradiction examined . 〈…〉 p. . p. . arch b. la●ds conference . p. . p. . p. . p. . rational account . p. . st. against st. p. . p. . §. . the charge of fanaticism de●ended . p. . fanaticism of rom. church . s. . p. . . ●d . st. against st. p. . king . . rom. . . §. . no contradiction in the charge 〈◊〉 divisions . rational 〈◊〉 . p. . divis. of the rom. church . s. . ● . . ed. §. . the conclusion . p. . p. . notes for div a -e §. . the occasion of annexing the principles . p. . ● . ed. protestants without principles , chap. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. , . §. ▪ or the notion of infallibility . §. . n. o● . concessions . prop. . prop. . prop. . prop. . p. . s. . p. . p. . p. . p. . pro● . . p. . p. . ●rot . without princip . chap. . guide in controv. disc . . chap. . s. . sect. . § . n. o's . principles laid down . p. ● . §. . n. o's . exceptions answered . prop. . p. . ioh. , . p. . p. . luke . , . mat. . . p. . field of the church l ▪ . ch . p. . ch. ▪ ch. . p. . psal. . . james . . luke . . john . . §. . n. o's . proofs of infallibility examined . § . of the arguments from scripture for infallibility . 〈◊〉 . . . 〈◊〉 . . , . 〈…〉 . ration . account . p. . ch . . sect. . p. . prop. , p. . p. , . cor. . . heb. . . p. . p . prop. . p. . §. . of the argument from tradition for infallibility . p. , . b●ll de concil . l. . c. . field of the church , l. c . rat. account . part ▪ . ch . . sect. . p. . rat. acc●unt . p. . ch . . p. ▪ p . p. . § . of the argument for infallibility from parity of reason . prop. . § . of the authority of the guides of the church john . , . cor. . thess. . . acts : ▪ . john . ● gal. . . jude v. . mat. . , . ▪ . acts. . ▪ . t●m . . thess. . . tim. . , . t●ess . . , ● . matt. . . 〈◊〉 . . ● cor. . . cor. . . 〈…〉 . ba●o● a. d. . ● . petav dogmat . theolog. tom. . l . c. petr. de marca , dis●rt . de vigilii decr●to . bell. de rom. pon●it . l. . c. . b●lla●m . de concil . auctor . . c. . concil . constat . . act. . can. lo● . theol. l. . c. . francise . toa●●ens . de . . . synod . flor. a. d. . p. . . p. . p. . 〈◊〉 . allocutio . hadriani . ad co●c . ro. tom . conc. gen. ●d lu● . par. . p. ● . baron . a. d. . n. . francis. combesis historia h●res . monotheli●●r . c. . alex . index expu●g●tor . p. . bellarm. de rom. pontifice l. . c. . petav dogmat . theol. l. . c. . s. bal●zius de vi â petri marcae p. . . petav. ib. ●ect . . combesis . c. . sect . . tab●lae su●●rag . p. . iacob . de vitriaco hist. orient . cap. . bellonii obser . l. . c. . article . articl . . concil . lateran . a. d. . s●ct . . §. . of the s●nse of scripture . p. . p. . . p. . ephes. . , , . pet. . . p. . pet . , . § . of a judge of controver●●es . § . the way used in the primitive church f●r finding the sense of scripture 〈…〉 . ● . sect . . . 〈…〉 〈…〉 c. . l. . c. . epipha● . hae● . . iren l. . c. . t●rtull . de praecip haeret . c. . eus. b. hist. eccl●s l. . c. . 〈◊〉 l. . c. . iren. l. . c. . tertull. de praescrip . haeret . c. . pet. scrive i● fragmata ●● tragicorum . p. . isidor : or●gin . l. r. c. . iren. l. . c. . iren. l. . c. . c. . c. . l. . c. . c. . c. . c. . l. . . . l. . praebat . l. . praehat . tertull. de praescript haeret . c. . c. . c. c. . c. c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . c. . t●rtull . c. mar. l. . c. . c. . , . c. . . l. . c. . c. . . l. ▪ c. c. . c. & ●● tertull. adversus hermog . c. . c. . . c. . t●rtull . adversus prax●am . c. . clem. ale● and. stro● . ● . cyprian . epist . . firmil . inter e●pas cyprian . baron . annal . ad a. d. . n. . n. . euseb. ● . l. . c. . concil . arelat . . c. . 〈…〉 . c. . . aug. de haer●s . cap. . g●●ad . de e●cl●s d●gmat . c. . ba●il epist. ca● . . ad ●●●●●loch . concil la●di●ea . c. ▪ . baron . annal . tom. . in append. 〈…〉 . . 〈◊〉 eccles● . ●istor . l. . c. . 〈…〉 b. l. . c. . epipha● . haeres . . sect. . sect. . athans . co●t . 〈◊〉 orat. . p. . atha . co●● . a●a● . 〈…〉 . p. . &c. eph . 〈…〉 c. 〈◊〉 . p. . ath●● o●at . . c. arian . ad ad ●ph . c. paul. samosat . cp . ad s●rapi . h●ar . de t●ait . l. . hilar. l. . 〈…〉 . ● . co●cil . gen●ral . tom. . p. . greg. nazia● ep. ● . bellar. de co●cil . author . l. . c. . august . c. maxim. l. . c. . aug. de doctri . christia● l. . c. , . l. . ● . . l. . c . ib. l. . c. . l. . c. . l . c. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . c. . c. , . l. . c. . l. . c. . vincent . lerin . commonitor . p. . commonit . . c. . ●● commonit . . c. 〈◊〉 . vincent . commonit . . a● . . ad . petav. dogm . theol tom. . in praefat . l. . c. . sect . . hier. a o● . . c. russi● . c. . c. . c. . §. . s. augustins testimo●● examined p. . aug. c. cresco● . l. . c. . aug. de unit . eccles. c. . , . c. . c. . aug. de baptis . c. donat . l . c. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . de bapt ● do●at . l. c. : de bapt. l. . c. . de baptis . l. . c. . c. c●e●cor . l. . c. . . c. cr●s●on . io. de bapt. c. do●at . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. , l. . c. l. . c. . l. . c. . de bapt. ● . donat. l. . c. . §. . of church authority . p. . p. . p. . p. . art. . p. . fanaticism fanatically imputed to the roman church . p. . p. . p. . p. . p. . chrysost. in . 〈◊〉 thess. hom. . s. c. p. . praeface to principles considered . p. ● . iacob simanca enchir . judic ▪ viol . relig. tit. . n. . luke . . onuphr . vit . pauli . del. bere de officio inquisit . part . . dub . . petit. . n. . ger. ●usdragi epistol . ad cardinal . pisan. an exposition of the seven epistles to the seven churches together with a brief discourse of idolatry, with application to the church of rome / by henry more ... more, henry, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing m estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an exposition of the seven epistles to the seven churches together with a brief discourse of idolatry, with application to the church of rome / by henry more ... more, henry, - . [ ], , [ ], p. printed by james flesher, london : . each part has special t.p.: the first with title, "a propheticall exposition of the seven epistles," and the second, "an antidote against idolatry." errata: p. 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. in the pref. to the exposit. pag. . l. . interims , read , in terms . in the exposit. p. . l. . r. the church in thyatira . p. . l. . r. in thyatira . p. . l. . r. event . in the antidote . p. . l. ult . for at , r. all . p. . l. . r. impossible , or . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . an exposition of the seven epistles to the seven churches ; together with a brief discourse of idolatry ; with application to the church of rome . by henry more d. d. prov . . . the lying tongue is but for a moment : but the lip of truth shall be established for ever . london , printed by james flesher . . to the right honourable , john lord robarts , baron of truro , lord privy seal , lord lieutenant of ireland , and one of his majestie 's most honourable privy council . my lord , what things single are usually thought sufficient to determine ones choice of a patron to any publick writing , whether it be private obligation from particular favours , or the desire of leaving to posterity a just and honourable testimony to the parts and vertues of some excellent person , or the design of obtaining the patronage and countenance of such a person , to what we adventure to make publick , as is able by his learning , judgement and publick repute to protect it from injury ; all these do so happily conspire in your lordship , that i should have thought it an omission unpardonable if i had not taken this opportunity of paying your lordship this due respect , and of doing that right to the truth i here professe as to put it under the wings of so fit and able a patron . which still ought to be done with the greater alacrity , there being that providentiall coincidence of things , that i should have a book ready in the presse at that very time that our gracious sovereign did think good to conferre upon your lordship that great honour and trust of being lord lieutenant of ireland . which conjuncture of circumstances could not but excite me with greater readinesse to make your lordship this congratulatory present upon your new honour . which all good christians that know the inflexible uprightnesse of your spirit , and cordiall adherence to the apostolick faith and just interest of reformed christendome , cannot but congratulate . for this it is indeed , my lord , that has begot in me a more special esteem of your lordship , that in this instable and uncertain age you have with that steadinesse of minde and clearnesse of judgement stuck to the truth and purity of the protestant religion , as discerning the vast difference betwixt it and popery , which yet too many now-adays , either because they are removed too great a distance from all religion , or else because their sight is extremely dim in matters of this nature , can not , or will not , discern . but this is spoke with a more particular regard to the second part of this small volume i present your lordship withall . but the first also has its speciall sutablenesse to the circumstances your lordship is placed in . for by how much more power any one is intrusted with by any protestant prince , by so much the more he is concerned to understand how sacred a province he undertakes , and how expresly that religion and profession is owned in the holy prophecies christ has delivered to his church , above and against the barbarous and idolatrous tyrannie of the church of rome . which things are set out with that plainnesse , evidence and easiness in this exposition of the epistles to the seven churches that i hope no impartial reader can fail of being made exceeding sensible of the sacrednesse of the protestant religion and interest by the perusall thereof . besides , that there are some notable hints in these oracles for the more happy and secure management of the affairs of reformed christendome . i shall onely name that passage to the sardian church , remember how thou hast received , and heard , and hold fast , &c. the verse runs out into a dreadfull commination of heavy judgements to the angel of the church of sardis for his loosenesse and slipperinesse in those points of apostolick doctrine which the reformers had recovered into the knowledge of so great a part of the world . and amongst the things that they had heard , that voice of the angel , apoc. . come out of her , my people , that ye be not partakers of her sins , &c. was not the least articulate . whereby the church of rome was openly declared to be that babylong the great , the mother of fornications and the abominations of the earth ; as also the pope with his clergie to be that notorious antichrist . this the sardian church had received from their evangelicall predecessours . and it had been their everlasting establishment never to have for got it , never to have let it die , or smothered it . but what mischief the halting betwixt two opinions is apt to doe , and the not taking notice how sacred a thing the protestant religion is in the sight of god , and how rejectaneous that of the church of rome , i believe neither your lordship nor any one else that has his eyes opened either into history or the affairs of the world can be ignorant of , or , if he be a good christian , make the observation without regrett and sorrow . but the prospect of what is to come is more pleasing and comfortable ; which is the state of the church of philadelphia , into which the sardian church , that is to say , reformed christendome or the protestant churches , are to passe , as being the next successive intervall . which therefore cannot but be a note of main importance for all reformed states and kingdomes to stear their affairs by , namely , to bend their course thitherward whither they are pointed to by the finger of god himself in his holy oracles . for they sail as it were with winde and tide whose carriage of affairs approaches the nearest to the purpose of divine fate . which is lively pourtray'd all along in this stupendious book of prophecies written by s. john. the most pleasing and enravishing part whereof is that which is typify'd or prefigured by the church of philadelphia , the church of brotherly love . which is the next scene divine providence has designed to introduce . and which all those do most grosly oppose who for difference in matters not revealed in holy scripture , nor necessary to salvation , think they have pretense enough with all unchristian keennesse and bitternesse of spirit to reproach and inveigh one against another , to nourish the highest animosities , and to watch all opportunities of persecuting , ruining , and trampling one another into the dirt. as this is extremely unchristian in it self , so is it also diametrically opposite to that dispensation that god intends to introduce into his church as the chiefest blessing he has in store for her , and is as it were knocking at the door to enter , if the lovd noise of hot and quarrelsome brawls about matters of smaller moment ( as indeed all things are exceeding small , unlesse of apostolicall institution , if they stand in competition with that royal law of love , ) did not drown the voice thereof , that it cannot so easily be heard . but assuredly , my lord , the letting this philadelphian dispensation in , or the approaching as near unto it as we can , will prove the most effectuall healing and consolidating the interest of reformed christendome , as well in the whole as in the parts thereof , as we can desire or expect . which therefore i humbly conceive , that all persons the more power they are intrusted with in any of the protestant dominions , are the more obliged to consider by how much more they are obliged to endeavour to promote the interest of their prince and countrey whose affairs they administer . and therefore the right understanding of the vision of the seven churches so manifestly giving this aim for the prosperous steering of affairs , i thought this my exposition of the said churches no unsutable present in these circumstances to be made unto your lordship . of the usefulnesse whereof i having spoken more particularly in my preface , i leave the whole to your lordship's judicious and favourable perusall , and wishing you all good successe in the great charge his majesty has intrusted you with , i cease to give you any farther trouble then in subscribing my self , my lord , your lordship 's most humble and affectionate servant , henry more . the preface to the reader , declaring the occasion , solidity and usefulnesse of the ensuing exposition . reader , how unexpected this of mine may prove to thee i know not , but sure i am , it cannot be more then to my self , who , as i have never yet affected to bestow my pains on these kind of subjects , so i thought my self secure , since the edition of the late dialogues touching the kingdome of god , from ever being engaged in them any more . for i made account that what was contained in mr. mede's writings , and in synopsis prophetica , and the above-said dialogues , might afford all usefull satisfaction to any sober enquirer into these mysteries ▪ and i find neither my will nor my abilities to reach to the service of men in needlesse curiosities . and therefore thou maist be sure i did not deem the propheticall exposition of these seven epistles to the seven churches in asia to be such , but rather that there was no such exposition that belonged unto them , and therefore rested in the literal sense , and an usefull moral application of them as they might sute any particular church in any age of the world placed in like circumstances with any of these seven churches . and these things methought were so obvious , that it would have been a needlesse labour to have attempted any thing in so facil a matter , where others have done sufficiently well before . . but having sent the above-said dialogues to a gentleman in the countrey , to whom they were not unacceptable , as being curious of subjects of this nature ; after his civil acknowledgements for my sending him the book , and some pertinent reflexions on the main matter , at last he falls upon this business of the seven churches in these words : i find not , saith he , any late writer apply the seven churches mystically , revel . . and . chapters ; mr. brightman having failed in his application . but i suppose the farther enquiry into that point may be worth your pains . i shall now onely hint , that the seven churches may represent the state of the whole visible church from christ's time to the day of judgement : viz. ephesus , till anno christi ; smyrna , till ; pergamus , declining towards popery , till the waldensian separation , about anno ; thyatira , emerging from popery , till the pacification at passaw in germany . and king edward the sixth's reformation in england ; sardis , the state of reformed christendome , ( the kingdome of god , ) since whole nations fell from rome , and untill rome shall be totally subdued ; philadelphia , when truth , peace and holinesse shall universally prevail , and the name of the new jerusalem shall be written upon the church , as is expresly promised chap. . . interims too august for such a poor church as that was literally taken . and this may be a key for all the rest . and lastly , laodicea , when towards the end of the thousand years satan shall be again let loose a little space , and gog and magog shall trouble the church , then luke-warm as in the days of noah . this was the whole ( verbatim ) of what that gentleman writ touching this matter . and this , reader , was the occasion of my undertaking , and the advantage i had for the more easily performing this task of expounding these seven epistles to the seven churches . for the intervalls here suggested , though they are most-what different from what upon due deliberation with my self i thought fittest to pitch upon , yet it is manifest that they could not but give aim toward a more speedy hitting the intended mark , and a more quick dispatch of this exposition which i present thee with . indeed , upon my endeavouring to frame out the same , and my searching into commentatours , i found that p. galatinus interprets these seven churches of seven intervalls of the church from the beginning to the end thereof . this cornelius à lapide notes , but not a word of the limits of these intervalls . and since my compleating this exposition , a learned friend of mine shew'd me a passage in mr. mede , lib. . c. . where he argues for a mysticall sense of these seven churches , and seems to insinuate that they should prophetically sample unto us a seven-fold successive temper and condition of the whole visible church , according to the severall ages thereof , answering to the pattern of the seven churches here , and that à principio ad finem , and takes notice of the fitly placing of philadelphia partly about the time the beast is falling , and partly after his destruction , accordingly as we had already set down in our exposition . but the bounds of these successive intervalls he has not attempted to define . that advantage therefore i had onely from the party i above mentioned , as well as the first invitation to undertake this present design . . but now as to the solidity of the performance , although i must confess the clearnesse of the matter appeared so great to me at last , as that it infinitely exceeded my first expectations of it , and proved satisfactory to my self beyond what i thought possible ; yet i will not here pre-ingage thy judgement or belief , but freely remit thee to the exposition it self , the preparations to it in the first and second chapters , and the brief recapitulation of the strength of it in the last . onely , that thou maist have nothing to stumble at , i will endeavour to prevent thee in some exceptions , the greatest i am aware of , and yet in my own judgement not considerable . . as first , i would not have thee , according to the manner of some , let thy minde dwell upon any thing that may seem less strong alone . as that chap. . sect. . where i intimate , that because , in the * interpreting the seven golden candlesticks , they are not apply'd nominatim to the seven particular churches in asia that are said to be writ to , it is an invitation to the thinking of a more released sense , and that some other seven churches in another kinde of meaning ( as well as they , if not rather then they , ) may be aimed at ; this ought to be no prejudice to the other arguments in the same chapter that are so cogent , but rather those other to afford strength to this , which is added as an easy probability , not a convictive demonstration , and therefore is not considerable but in conjunction with the rest , as is intimated in the very place . and i will onely adde here , that if there were no other sense then the literal to be look'd after , that in all likelihood , for sureness to keep men from errour , and from doing wrong to any church by a false interpretation , the spirit of god would have expresly said , that the seven candlesticks were the seven churches of asia that were there writ to , and that the seven stars were the seven bishops of those very churches . i must confess , in my own judgement , i think there is some such thing hinted at as i have declared , which made me not omit it . but i am also as sensible that it can signifie little to those that are averse , and are given to cavill , who are prone to dwell on what seems weak , that they may ease their minds of what is more strong and stringent . which is a fault that is punishment enough to him that commits it , he usually losing truth by thus indulging to his own ill humour . . i know not whether thou mayst mistake me also in the allusion i memtion of ephesus to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as if it sounded like aphesus , which i would warrant from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( one of the matres lectionis before the use of points ) standing for both a and e ; whence i would argue the affinity of those two sounds : when as thou maist object , that martinius expresly speaking of these three matres lectionis , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith , that the first stands for a , the second for e and i , and the third for o and u. but in hebrew writings without points there is nothing more familiar then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 standing for e , as in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the like . and in the greek tongue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are frequently changed into one another , according to diversity of dialect : so that there can be no difficulty touching this thing . . thirdly , it may haply be objected against our interpreting the ten days of affliction predicted to the church in smyrna , of the ten famous persecutions , that some reckon more then ten , adding an eleventh under constantius the arian , a twelfth under julian the apostate , and a thirteenth under the arian emperour valens . but prophecy being an anticipatorie history , it is sufficient that it speak according to the usual language of historians , whose reports run up on these ten so famously and distinctly taken notice of . and there are no more then ten in the intervall we set for the church of smyrna . after which conspicuously comes in the scene of pergamus , christianity having got the conquest over the old persecuting paganism . and julian reigned not two years , and his attempts were most-what of another kinde , and none considerable so as to break this number . besides that it happened in an intervall notoriously of another nature and denomination , and therefore is not to be taken notice of , it bearing no proportion at all to the contrary affairs of that period . indeed the arrian persecutions are very considerable , but they are of another nature from these ten. the church being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 became proud , as well as exalted out of the dust , and contentious , as well as proud , according to that of the wise man , prov. . . onely by pride cometh contention , but with the well-advised is wisedome . christ was therefore faithfull in his promise to the church in smyrna , and procured them the crown of life , and safety from the pagan cruelty and persecution . but that the church afterwards in pergamus fell out amongst themselves , was their own fault , none of his , that taught them expresly , that by this shall all men know ye are my disciples , if ye love one another . . fourthly , it may perhaps seem hard to thee , that i interpret the eating of things offered to idols of communicating with the church of rome in their idolatrous masse . for how can that consecrated bread be said to be offered to an idol ? it is true , he that they pretend to offer it to is no idol , but the true god. but by their idolatrous practices , communicating divine worship to what is not god , they debase the nature of the true god so far , as that they seem to lose the true notion of him , and in stead of him to worship an idol of their own brain . for the true god is not so mean a being that any others can partake in his worship . and therefore , according to the cutting and searching strain of the prophetick style , those that mingle idolatry with the worship of the true god are represented as having no true knowledge of him ; and therefore whatever religious worship they doe , they being devoid of the knowledge of the true god , they must necessarily be conceived to doe it to some idol . according to which sense is that of amos , o ye house of israel , have ye offered to me victimes and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wildernesse ? yea , ye took up the tabernacle of moloch , &c. where the true god , by reason of their idolatry in worshipping other objects , denies they at any time worshipped him , though questionless they thought they did offer victimes and sacrifices unto him . this is express and direct to the scruple propounded . but in our exposition it is onely insinuated , that there is a propheticall diorism , or a synecdoche , whereby idolatry in the general is signify'd by that particular species thereof , the eating things offered unto idols . which is used here with the greater fitness and elegancy , because that the idolatry is committed in that part of their religion that is performed in the eating of what is consecrated . and if we do but consider that the lord's supper is a feast upon a sacrifice , according to that of s. paul , christ our passeover is sacrificed for us ; therefore let us keep the feast , ( which notion is made out with abundant evidence by a late learned and judicious writer on that subject , ) we once supposing the eating of this sacrifice contaminated with idolatry , what can be a more natural and apposite reproach to it , then to parallel it to the feasts upon the pagan idolothyta , the eating of things offered unto idols ? wherefore there is not the least harshnesse imaginable in this interpretation . . fifthly , that it may be no prejudice to thy judgement touching the interpretation of antipas , and its signifying as much as one against the pope , because that learned and reverend expositour dr. hammond has styled it a wanton and vain phancy in mr. brightman , who presumed so to interpret it , thou art to consider , that this censure of that passage was not so much built upon any weakness in the passage it self , as that it was found in a farrago of conceits that were not so well managed as to support and countenance one another . and therefore for the general mr. brightman's exposition of these seven epistles being not so convictive , that judicious doctour was the more bold to speak so slightly of this passage thereof . which if it had been accompanied with other parts of his exposition of these epistles that had had the like unexceptionablenesse , it would never have been found fault with by so judicious a writer , as indeed there is no reason it should . for no name can be so fit and significant for this purpose as this of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , signifie one and the same thing , as eustathius and others from him usually do affirm . and it is most certainly true that they are both 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as hesychius speaks . and therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , have exquisitely the same signification . but to have found 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this supposed prophecy had been quite against the laws of the apocalyptick style , that is as regardfull of due concealment as of certainty of revealment . so that so plain a passage would have stood out very coursly and harshly above the rest of that smooth and delicate contexture of these visions , and occasioned a too-early intelligence of the meaning of these prophecies . besides that antipapas is no proper name of any man , and that the very literal story requires it should be antipas . wherefore the indication both for sense and for sound in this word antipas is as exquisite as , considering the nature of the apocalyptick style , it either could or ought to have been . so that he that would cavill at this interpretation must of necessity deny the hypothesis , and say there is no propheticall sense at all of these seven epistles . . nor needest thou scruple at my applying that passage of the martyr antipas to the albigenses and waldenses , that were slain in the field , as if they were not rightly termed martyrs . for he that can save his life by renouncing the truth , and yet parts with it , ( though it be in the field , ) is rightly deemed a martyr . which was the case of these men . and that is remarkable for this purpose which mr. mede takes notice of , that when simon , earl of monfort , had routed them , and made a great slaughter of them , and that the bishop of tolouse there present took thereupon the opportunity of exhorting them to return to the roman church , they seeing so plainly that the wrath of god was kindled against them for their separation from the church ; they answered in plain terms , that they were the people of god overcome by the beast , ( apoc. . . ) and knowing this to be their fate , yet would not flinch from the truth : and therefore the army returning upon them , they had all their throats cut in the field . whence it is manifest that they were martyrs properly so called , according to our definition thereof : as there were also severall antipas's in this intervall that suffered martyrdome in that way that thou canst not except against , that is to say , such as were merely passive , and made no resistence . some of them are named by mr. brightman , who if he had done as well on the other five churches as he has on this of pergamus and that of thyatira , his exposition of the seven churches had been considerable . . and lastly , to arm thee against the authority of the above-named venerable person touching the reason of the name of thyatira , as if it were as much as thygatira , a young daughter ; for which he perstringes mr. brightman , condemning the conceit for a mere groundless phancy ; i say , it is not evident that he so much reprehends him for the notation of the word , as for the application of it to such a sense as he there expresses : which is much different from that sense we have proposed , and far more dilute . but as for my self , i must confesse i could not but conceit that the notation of the word thyatira was alluded to , after i had read that passage in cornelius à lapide on the text : which , for thy fuller satisfaction , i shall transcribe . verùm strabo , lib. . plinius , lib. . cap. . & alii , passim tradunt eam ( that is , the city thyatira ) primitùs nuncupatam à seleuco , filio nicanoris , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ob laetum nuncium natae sibi filiae , unde nomen thyatirae . thyatira ergò graecè significat filiam ; quod aptè competit jezebeli illici , quae hîc arguitur . this of cornelius made me secure of the authentickness of this notation , he so precisely qùoting strabo and pliny for the same . and therefore i could not but persuade my self that the church of rome was here called thyatira with some allusion to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . had it not been for this , i should have contented my self with the allusion to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 onely . but these authorities made me search into the state of the church of rome in this intervall : and i found many things abundantly answerable to the title in the sense of this notation . amongst which if thou chance to think my reflexion upon the multitude of monks or friers in those days to bear the least strength with it , consider but what polydore virgil writes of that one order of franciscans , who , as some others , were the peculiarly-devoted to the blessed virgin : totum terrarum orbem , saith he , una haec implevit familia , ut vulgus jam tum stupefactum suspicaretur non tam pietatem , quàm otium & ignaviam interdum multis cordi esse . and to have such swarms of men that had renounced their virility , and led an idle life , and went gadding and gossipping up and down , telling odd stories to the people , as old wives and nurses do to children , having most of them chins as smooth as womens , and their faces mob'd in hoods , and long coats like petticoats , as if they had a greater ambition to appear the pedissequae or handmaids of the virgin mary , ( whom the doctours of that church love to call the daughter of god , ) then the men-servants and souldiers of jesus christ , who in this epistle to the church in thyatira , on purpose , one would think to reproach the roman church for this idolatrous corrivalry , or rather prelation , of the virgin in religious worship before christ , expresly calls himself the son of god ; this , i say , must assuredly be a consider able accession to the womanishnesse or daughterlinesse , if i may so speak , of the church of rome , which is here perstringed in this period by an allusion to thygatira , which signifies a daughter . . and although upon search after those places cited out of strabo and pliny i could not find what i sought for , yet i found no reason to recede from this part of my interpretation . first , because this passage cornelius cites may haply be found in some other place in those authours , though it be not in these . secondly , because there need be no such account of the notation of the word , sith paronomasticall allusion is sufficient , and thyatira of it self sounds near enough to thygatira , as must be generally allowed by all those that give their suffrage for the derivation therefrom . and it is not hard to prove it from the easie elision is made of the letter g out of sundry words . those in the english tongue are obvious . it is more pertinent to instance in the greek , where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 amongst the poets is srequently for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and also in the middle of words , the boeotians pronouncing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . andfrom the latine magis is the french word mais , and from magister maister . and caninius in general pronounces , alia sunt innumerabilia quae deperdunt g : which implies it to be but a weak melting consonant , and such as easily degenerates into y , and , as it may be placed , is easily quite lost . which argues that the sound of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are near enough for paronomasticall allusion in any indifferent man's judgement whatsoever . and that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , besides that common analogie of making nomina parasyllaba ( as they are called ) from the fifth declension , as from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , there is an example exquisitely answering this of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , namely , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so that the word is unexceptionable . and lastly , though we should give it for granted that neither pliny nor strabo has any such passage as cornelius pretends , yet stephanus byzantius expresly has in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whose very words i will transcribe for thy better satisfaction . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say , thyatira , a city of lydia , was first called pelopea and semiramis ; but seleucus the son of nicanor waging war with lysimachus , and hearing that he had a daughter born to him , called the city thygatira . and it ought to be spoken in the feminine gender , though now they make it of the neuter . all this surely will abundantly warrant and secure a paronomasticall allusion in thygatira , which signifies a daughter . . and this may suffice for the making good the solidity of our exposition . and i say solidity , rather then perfection , affirming onely all to be right so far as we have gone , but not denying but that others better versed in history may more fully verifie what we have attempted . nor did all things occurr that my self had read , and should have noted if they had come to my minde . as those notorious ten years of the most bloudy persecution of all under diocletian , which , i think , may in special be alluded to by the ten days mentioned in the church of smyrna , as well as the ten persecutions in general , by a propheticall henopoeia . the notation also of the names of balaam and balac are very accommodate to pergamus ; pergamus signifying what is high , and balaam the lord of the people . which balaam being also the false prophet , and set here for the pope and his clergy , agrees excellently well with the lordlinesse of him in this pergamenian period , wherein he trode upon the necks of emperours , and kicked their crowns off with his feet . and balac , which is here the secular sovereignty , whether it signifie destruction or emptinesse , sutes very well with the state of that time , when the power of the pope had so overmastered all , that the secular magistrate was either but the bloudy executioner of his edicts , or else stood for a mere cypher , the temporal power being quite in a manner evacuated by the rampancy of the spiritual . and seeing all the names in this prophecy are so significant , i leave to the enquiry of the learned whether there may not be some proper significancy in the name of jezebel also ; for it seems not uncapable of a fitting etymologie , and that according to the pattern of a severe critick in the hebrew tongue ; who in his account of the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( which is just such another composition as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ) says , that it may be compounded of either 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ubi , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vae , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gloria . so therefore say i may 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be compounded of either 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which signifies habitaculum ; or else of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which in the chaldee ( which is but a dialect of the hebrew ) signifies stercus ; or of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 insula , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 stercus . which last is lesse accommodate to our purpose , unlesse insula here signifie symbolically , as mr. mede sometimes interprets it of a church as a place separate , as islands are by the sea , and holy , in that it is separate . and then the reproach will be upon the holy church of rome in this thyatirian intervall , as if it had become an island of filth and dung. which was too true of them , for all their outward gildings and paintings . but the other notations methinks are more simple and easie , and fitly accord with both the history of jezebel and the fate of the roman church at the end of the thyatirian intervall . for if we derive 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ubi , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 habitaculum , it will plainly glance at jezebel's being slung out at the window from her habitation ; but most fitly prefigure the dispossession of the roman priests and friers at the beginning of the reformation , that they would be cast out of their habitations , and that their places should know them no more . so that the very name of jezebel bears in it the fate of that church at the close of that time . but if we derive 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vae or heu , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 stercus , both the fault and the punishment of the roman church will be found written in this name ; her filth and corruptions being compared to dung , and her punishment intimated not unlike that of jezebel's , as it is written , and the carcasse of jezebel shall be as the dung on the face of the earth . so that the notation of the name denotes with what foul reproach the papal power and superstition would be put down in those places out of which it was to be exterminated ; that it should be troden down into the very dirt. so that upon him that was in the pergamenian intervall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the lord of the people , ( the papal hierarchy domineering over all , ) at the close of this thyatirian intervall this insulting lamentation might be taken up with a paronomasticall allusion , not much unlike the foregoing etymologie in the sense thereof , and near enough to the sound of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , namely , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , alas the dung or dirt of the papal lordlinesse ! how is it troden down as the mire in the streets ! which was notoriously performed in the actings of martin luther against the pope and roman clergy . but whether this or what else may be alluded to by the sound of the name , i am not very solicitous , the story of the person being sufficient to warrant the meaning i have given of the text , as any one may see by perusing the expolition . and our performance ; i hope , will appear solid enough without descending to such curious niceties . we will therefore now onely adde something briefly touching the usesulnesse thereof , and so conclude . . and certainly our exposition of these seven epistles to the seven churches has an equal usefulnesse with any other exposition of the apocalyptick visions , and the more considerable , in that it is a more compendious comprehension of the main drift of them all . first then , it serves for the confirmation of our faith in the particular providence and watchfulnesse of christ over his church , it being so manifest from this exposition with what care and steddiness he hath carried on things hitherto in the first five intervalls , and that they have been no otherwise then he himself has predicted in these propheticall epistles . but then again , in the second place , here is an ample and timely testimony in the behalf of the protestants , i mean such as have declared against and forsaken the communion of the church of rome , from the time of the waldenses to the first reformers usually so called ; the waldenses being acknowledged the faithfull martyrs of christ , and those other that lived within the intervall of the church in thyatira carrying away no lesse encomium , as being thus described in the epistle to that church ; i know thy works , and charity , and service , and faith , and thy patience , and thy works , and the last to be more then the first . so that they approved themselves more and more , even till they broke out at last into a national reformation . and shall not our first reformers then be thought worthy of having the vision of the rising of the witnesses applied to them , who have so ample a testimony from christ himself , whom the father has constituted the judge of the whole world ? and shall not they rightly be said to have ascended into heaven in a politicall sense , to whom was made good that promise to the church in thyatira , to him that overcomes will i give power over the nations , & c ? this therefore of the church in thyatira does farther ratifie what we have * elsewhere delivered touching the rising of the witnesses , that the completion of that prophecy was in that wonderfull reformation god unexpectedly brought about by luther and others . whence it will follow , that the sound of the sixth trumpet is over , and that the forty two months , the one thousand two hundred and sixty days , or the time and times and half a time , are expired as to the fulfilling of prophecy ; and consequently , that it is in vain for any to compute any futurities upon the supposall of their expiration to come ; and that those that doe so will finde themselves confuted by the unsutablenesse of events , and thereby expose the endeavour of interpreting prophecies to reproach and scorn , and weaken mens belief even of those expositions that are true , and give great advantage to the common adversary . but as it is most true in it self , so it is most for the interest of reformed christendome , to take notice , that the protestant reformation is the fulfilling of the vision of the rising of the witnesses , and of their ascending into heaven ; that men may have that value for the reformation that is due thereto , ( it having thereby so plain a ratification from divine testimony of the rightfulnesse thereof against the tyrannies and idolatries of the church of rome , ) and that both magistrate and people may every-where be the better sodered together upon this consideration , and that all sects that keep the foundation may have the better esteem for one another , and not vilifie and hate one another in such sort as usually they do , but be in a readinesse for christian unity and love. for it is this dispensation of spirit that must give antichrist that most deadly blow that is to come , and not a flaming sword out of the mouth of the rider of the white horse literally understood , or large streams of fire spouted out of heaven upon him , or any such miraculous assistence , as some ignorantly expect at the finishing of the days . which groundlesse supposition is fit for nothing but to engender vain heats and presumptuous conceits , to which no answer will be given but shame and frustration . but the plain truth understood as it is , naturally tends to the begetting in all reformed christendome a mutuall esteem of one another , and the suppressing that vain presumption in parties , as if they were the sole people that the vision of the witnesses belonged to , and so ought to expect marvellous things for themselves conjoined with the destruction or suppression of all the rest that are not of their own party . which fond , or rather unchristian , conceits are quite expunged by the true and faithfull interpretation i have published to the world of the rising of the witnesses ; which puts them in a way rather of duly prizing one another , and of jointly endeavouring in the spirit of sobriety to advance the common interest of whole reformed christendome , then for any one party so vainly to presume of themselves above all the rest . and finally , this groundlesse expectation of any such wonderfull events upon the expiration of the days being thus wiped away , that time as to any fulfilling of prophecies being already expired , and no set time being defined for the future , but onely the order of things in the vision of the vials , it is left for the protestants to compute the approach of the final ruine of antichrist and the blessed millennium according to their own progresse in the mysterie of real regeneration and indispensable duties of christianity . by how much more holy , by how much more harmlesse , by how much more humble , by how much more heavenly-affected they finde one another , by how much more discreet , by how much more faithfull and obedient to the publick magistrate , by how much more kinde and loving to one another , and by how much more seriously affected for the advancing the publick good and the endeavouring the common welfare of all mankind , ( which will introduce the philadelphian intervall , ) by so much more near they may reckon the approach of the downfall of antichrist , and the glorious reign of christ in his saints at the happy millennium . but what other indications there be besides these in the visions of the prophets , whereby we may compute the nearnesse of those times , i must ingenuously confesse i know not . but this was a sudden excursion . we will return again into the way . . but thirdly , in that it is said , notwithstanding , i have a few things against thee , because thou sufferest that woman jezebel , which calleth her self a prophetesse , to teach and seduce my servants to commit fornication , and to eat things sacrificed unto idols , &c. this is a perfect clearing of the protestant reformers from that hainous crime of schism that the church of rome so magisterially lays to their charge , it plainly implying that their separation from the church of rome was not onely no fault , but a vertue , and an indispensable point of obedience to the command of christ , and that it had been disobedience and rebellion against christ not to have separated , and therefore was impossible to be any schism . which is a thing worthy of our notice and consideration . as is also this , ( contrary to the opinion of some , otherwise learned , ) that to depart from the church of rome upon the very account of idolatry is not schism before god , but onely in the sight of men , and those , it is to be feared , of none of the purest minds , but rather such as have a greater sense of the carnal interest of the church then of the glory of god , and the purity of his worship . for christ , who is god blessed for ever , does here blame the church in thyatira , that she suffers the woman jezebel any longer , and does not cast her off , ( as the eunuchs cast her out of the window in the type , ) and that for this very cause , because she is a teacher of idolatry , and an abettour and countenancer of spiritual fornication ; as is manifest in the text. so that before god , or in the sight of god , both the church of rome stands guilty of idolatry , and also the protestants leaving her communion upon that account are acquitted from any the least taint or suspicion of schism . and that the spirit of god does but witnesse with our spirits in the truth of this matter , if thou hast not lost the free use of thy reason , that brief treatise of idolatry added to this present exposition will , i hope , abundantly satisfie thee : which therefore i have adjoined as a sutable appendage thereunto . . fourthly , in that reformed christendom ( especially after their remissnesse in life and manners , and contentionsnesse about trifles , ) is represented ( under the type of the church in sardis ) to be in such an imperfect condition , though emerged out of the grossnesse of the popish idolatry , ( for there is no farther complaint of either the doctrine of balaam or of jezebel here , ) this should teach us to be humble , and not over-fierce and confident in our opinions and doctrines , but meekly to bear one with another , and be ready to be instructed by one another for the clearing up the truth . but in the mean time things being no better then they are , sith they are no worse then they were predicted , we are hence to learn , that it is our duty never to suffer our mindes to relapse towards the flesh-pots of aegypt , or think we had as good goe back again to rome , as to be no better then we are . for this sardian state is like the wandring in the wildernesse betwixt aegypt and the promised land , which is the philadelphian state , into which there is no entrance till after the seven vials , that is , till the last of them be poured out , or at least a-pouring . as it is said in the fifteenth of the apocalypse ; and the temple was filled with smoak from the glory of god , and from his power ; and no man was able to enter into the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled . where no man , according to the apocalyptick style , signifies , that that company of men that were to enter into , and make up , that state of the church which is here styled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the living temple of god , would not appear in that eminent condition till after the vials , the last either current or complete . which agrees admirably with that passage in the epistle to philadelphia , him that overcometh will i make a pillar in the temple of my god. so that these philadelphians shall not onely enter into the temple after the smoak of the vials , but never goe out of it again , according to the sense we have explained it in . wherefore because we are in a kinde of wildernesse-condition , we ought with faith and meeknesse and patience to abide till god shall bring us into that good land , and not to murmur against him , and reproach his providence , who hath thought fit to carry on things with such leisurely steps , nor peevishly and falsly to say that we had as good return to rome again , and that it is a question whether the reformation has done more good or hurt . for such thoughts or speeches are false , injudicious , and ingratefull reproaches against the sacred providence of god , whose ways these bitter , shallow and unsanctify'd spirits understand not , because the spirit of the world has blinded their eyes . and forasmuch as there is no complaint of idolatry in the epistle to this sardian church , nor the least hint to make any separation , as before , all the churches of reformed christendom , and all the particular sects and members thereof , ought to have a tender regard how they divide from one another or break communion for difference of ceremony or opinion ; but holding all the indispensable foundation , and bearing joint testimony against the grosse idolatries and wilde enormities of the church of rome , to study peace and mutuall compliance , that the body of reformed christendome may be more strong and compact to stand against the common enemie . but above all , we are with might and main to endeavour to perfect holinesse in the fear of god , and to purge our selves from all pollution of flesh and spirit , that we may prevent the extremity of that judgement which is threatned as suddenly and unexpectedly to come upon the church of sardis . and these , i think , are main usefulnesses discoverable in the interpretation of the epistle to the sardian church . . and fifthly , as for the exposition of the church of philadelphia , it is of main importance for the making of the world good . for it is the ordinary excuse for the reigning of impiety and immorality in the world , that men will be men as long as the world lasts , and that things are more likely ever to grow worse and worse then better : and therefore very few there are that will either attempt the amending of their own lives , or the encouraging others so to doe . when notwithstanding it is plain , according to the propheticall sense of the epistle to the church of philadelphia , that there will be a time when righteousnesse and true holinesse will have a most glorious reign upon earth . but those that are averse from this belief are usually averse also from believing any certitude in the expositions of prophecies . they will not , forsooth , be so presumptuous as to pretend they can understand them , especially such as either chastise the abominable wickednesses of the roman church , or such as promise times transcendently better . which is a piece of hypocrisie much like that of ahaz , when the prophet bid him ask a sign of the lord his god ; but he , good modest hypocrite , would not ask a sign , neither would he tempt the lord. the meaning whereof was , that he would not amuze nor distract his thoughts , nor render himself more obnoxious by taking notice of a supernatural evidence against the natural sentiments and persuasions of his own carnal minde , under whose government he was resolved to be , and not be dissettled by the inlets of any higher light. the application is very easie and obvious . . and lastly , admitting the propheticall meaning of the epistle to the church of laodicea , it is of great use for the establishing our faith in that grand point , that this terrestriall scene will have an end , and that at the close of all christ will visibly come in judgement to reward all men according to their works ; that he will judge both the quick and the dead according to the orthodox sense of the apostolick doctrine . to all which we may adde , that as the expositions of these seven epistles to the seven churches in asia are in a manner as convincing as any other visions in the whole apocalypse , so they are far more easie , and reach the main design in a lesse compasse of words , and have not that operosenesse of synchronisms necessarily hanging on them as the other have for the clearing of the sense ; but are onely seven intervalls manifestly succeeding one another , whose bounds so far as things are past are easily determinable . and we know that the intervall of sardis ends where that of philadelphia begins , and laodicea is the close of all . which facility and comprehensiblenesse must needs improve the usefulnesse of these expositions very considerably . and there wanting nothing but the significations of the names to be added for the easie applicability of the events to each intervall , i will , for the satisfaction of the reader , briefly furnish them that have no skill in the original languages with the sense and meaning of the names of all the seven churches aforehand . . ephesus therefore , with an allusion to the greek word ephesis , signifies desire , the first moving principle that drives on an activity for the attaining the main scope we aim at . but with an allusion to aphesis , it signisies remissnesse , for which this church of ephesus is blamed : or else , alluding again to aphesis , it signifies the starting or letting loose the racers at the beginning of the race . which agrees very fitly with this ephesine intervall , which is the beginning of the church , and of the whole course of providence concerning the same to the end of the world . smyrna signifies myrrh , intimating the bitter affliction of the primitive church under the ten pagan persecutions . pergamus signifies sublimity or exaltation , intimating the raising of the church out of her former dejected and afflicted condition under the aforesaid persecutions into a glorious triumph over paganism ; as it fell out upon the conquest of constantine the great . it signifies also , or prefigures , the enormous haughtinesse of the church of rome in that intervall . thyatira , in allusion to thygatira a daughter , intimates the more-then-ordinary womanishness of the church of rome in that intervall : but in allusion to thyateria , altars of incense or sweet odours , it signifies the more-then-ordinary frequentness of burning the blessed protestant martyrs with fire and faggot in this period . which cruelty though it was abominable in respect of that bloudy and barbarous church that committed it ; yet the suffering of those holy martyrs in this manner out of fidelity to christ and his truth was a sacrifice of sweet odours to him , and very gratefully accepted of him . sardis , in allusion to sarda or lapis sardius , ( the same that carnalina , ) signifies the imperfect and carnal condition of that intervall of the reformed church that is called sardian . philadelphia , which signifies charity in general , and particularly a more special love to them of the true houshold of faith , intimates the reign of the spirit , which is the spirit of love. for god is love , and he that abideth in love abideth in god , and god in him . this is that illustrious reign of christ in his millenniall empire of love , when the christian life shall take place , and opinions and persecutions shall be done away . and lastly , laodicea signifies a popular politicall or externally-legal righteousnesse , the outward form of the former philadelphian state , but , as in old age , the spirit much decay'd , though the outward figure of the body much-what the same . it signifies also the arraigning and judgeing of the people , that is , the nations of the world , when christ shall come to judge both the quick and the dead ; because this is to be performed at the close of this laodicean intervall . . the significancy of the names of these seven churches reckoned always in such an order , as that seven intervalls of the church , from the beginning to the end of all , answer exactly in the affairs of the church both to these names in this order they are reckoned , and to the conditions of the seven churches as they are orderly described in the seven epistles to them , is a plain demonstration to them that are not extremely refractory , ( especially if you adde the certainty that there must be a propheticall meaning of these epistles , as is made good in the first and second chapters of the ensuing book , ) i say , it is a plain demonstration , that our exposition is true , as well as so easie and comprehensible , and therefore of an universal usefulnesse as well to the illiterate as the learned . which i hope , reader , will be a sufficient excuse for the authour , that he has either invited thee to the pains of reading , or given himself the trouble of compiling , this present treatise . farewell . a propheticall exposition of the seven epistles sent to the seven churches in asia , from him that is , and was , and is to come . siracides . ch. . he that giveth his minde to the law of the most high , and is occupied in the meditation thereof , will seek out the wisedome of all the ancient , and be occupied in prophecies . a propheticall exposition of the seven epistles sent to the seven churches in asia . chap. i. a preparation toward the mysticall or propheticall interpretation of the seven epistles to the seven churches of asia . . we shall first premise , that as those two following prophecies of the seven seals , and of the opened book , reach from the beginning to the end of the church ; so this of the seven churches reaches also from the beginning of the church to the end of all . which seems congruous both from the nature of the vision it self , and from the following examples of the prophecies of the seven seals and the opened book . we shall premise in the second place , that as it is conspicuous that four of the names of these seven churches are directly significant of some state and condition they are in , viz. smyrna , pergamus , philadelphia and laodicea ; so it is exceeding credible that the other three names may allude to some thing that may set out their nature and condition also , viz. ephesus , thyatira and sardis ; as we shall take more express notice in the process of our exposition . lastly , which might as well ( if not better ) have been noted at first , this more mysticall sense , which we are now a-rendring of the seven churches , doth not at all clash with the literal sense of the same , nor exclude that usefull applicability of them for the reproof or praise of any churches particular in any time or age of the christian world , that are for the like things obnoxious or commendable . but the distinct providence of god , and his watchfulness and foresight of the affairs of his church , may haply be more illustrated and display'd by this mystical way of exposition then by that literal or moral . . we will therefore distinguish the whole duration of the church of christ , ( especially so far forth as it is within the limits of the roman empire , which also the other prophecies in the apocalyps seem chiefly to regard ) into seven intervalls , and will suppose the first intervall to end where the second begins , viz. in the tenth year of nero , or anno christi . . which period therefore of the ephesine church ending so early , even about thirty years before st. john's writing the apocalypse , agrees excellently well with that passage ch. . v. , . where , after christ's declaring himself the first and the last ; ( as before in the same chapter he is called he that was , and is , and is to come ) and his mentioning his own death and resurrection , and how that he will be alive to the end of the world to carry on the affairs of his church ; he presently inferrs , write therefore what things thou hast seen , what things are , and what things shall be hereafter , ( which he expresly and immediately calls the mystery of the seven stars and the seven golden candlesticks , ver . . which is worth the noting . ) what things thou hast seen already , in the times of thy life past , namely , the state of the ephesine church : what things are now present , viz. the smyrnian state of the church in which thou art , and tastest of the bitterness of it in this thy exile here in patmos ( for the ten persecutions were then already begun , and john was in the second of them : ) and what things shall be hereafter , namely , to the end of the world , in the residue of the period of the smyrnian church , and in the periods of the remainder of the seven churches succeeding . and questionless the vision of the rider of the * white horse respects what was then past , namely , christ's first warfare upon his conquest of death , and his being mounted into his glorify'd body ; who after from on high sent down succours to his apostles and disciples , and assisted and and managed that illustrious battel in the beginning of the apostolick times so successfully and gloriously , that infinite numbers of men were brought under the obedience of the gospel , even within the space of the ephesine period . . so that there can be no scruple of the church of ephesus representing a state of the church past ; but onely that it seems improper to direct an epistle to a church then out of being . but this can be no argument with them that hold the seven churches to be seven successive conditions of the church to the worlds end . for make the exitus of the ephesine church reach beyond s. john's time , suppose to anno christi , or thereabout ; the rest of the epistles will be writ to churches not yet in being , and some many hundreds , nay thousands of years ere they shall be : which yet they must not count absurd . . the briefest account therefore of this matter is this , that the spirit of god seems to drive on two main designs in the vision of these seven churches at once . the one , most effectually to animate and encourage the church to doe well , to stick to truth and holiness through all the trials and calamities of this present life ; as also to deterre them from all kind of sin and wickedness of what nature soever , whether apostasie from the faith , idolatry , sensuality , or what-ever remissness in manners : for which design this epistolar way is exceeding accommodate , it bearing the form of personally speaking to people , and so the more forcibly makes them take notice , in a manner whether they will or no , of what is said unto them . the other design , and that so laid as not to foregoe the former advantage , is to instruct the church in the providence of god and his foresight , to shew how all things lie bare before his eyes in such order and succession as they are in time to come to pass . in the literal sense of these epistles to the seven churches , that former design is plainly pursued and attained , understanding them directed to these seven churches in asia then in being ; and in a very great measure in the moral sense . these epistles , i say , being so applicable to any part of the catholick church in any age thereof , placed in the same or like circumstances of condition with these asiatick churches , this epistolar way will have a considerable efficacy and influence upon them , for either animation or reproof . . but now the great question is , why the prophetical design discoverable in the mystical interpretation should have been couched in this epistolar way , especially the epistle to ephesus , being writ after the ephesine period was expired . to which i answer , that this propheticall design was not intended for the ephesine church in this mysticall sense , but for future ages ; and therefore , it is taken in onely to make up the entireness of the whole succession of the church in its several distinct states from the beginning to the end of all . but this epistolar way is still retained in this mysticall sense , for the same usefulnesse it had in the literal to the seven churches in asia then really in being . for so soon as any of these letters by this mysticall sense is understood to be directed to any successive part of the church , as now , for example , ( as will appear anon ) the epistle to the church of sardis is directed to the protestant church or reformed christendome , this succession of the church ought to be as much concerned , as that particular church of sardis was in asia minor . and this intention of the holy ghost being once understood , it will be of the like usefulness to the philadelphian church especially , and also to the laodicean . wherefore the objections were but small , considering the usefulness of this epistolar way , though there were no other sense of these seven epistles and the seven churches but the mysticall . for as in an entire vision , where the beginning is touching something past or present , all goes under the title of propheticall , though that part that respects things past is but historicall representation : so in this entire epistolar vision , though the first part be epistolar , yet it is but historicall representation , exhibiting times and persons past ( as if they were present to be writ to ) and that for uniformity sake in the form of an epistle , as what is past in history under the form of propheticall vision , as the rider of the white horse , which is the first in the vision of the seals ; though the representation was of what was partly past , and partly present . but what is to come is the proper object of all vision propheticall . but now besides all this , in the literal sense there being then a church in ephesus when that epistle was wrote to it , and in a moral sense it being applicable to any church that does ephesize in any part of christendome and at any time ; the objection , in my judgment has melted into less then nothing . and therefore , notwithstanding this exception , we will not stick to place the end of the interval of the ephesine succession in the tenth of nero's reign , and in the year of christ . till then let the church of christ be represented under the title of ephesus ; from that time , till about three hundred and odd years after christ , under the name of smyrna : from thence , to the latter end of the persecution of the albigenses and waldenses , let her be the church dwelling in pergamus : from that time , till whole nations fell off from the pope , let the same church bear the name of thyatira : from that time protestantisme became the religion of nations , till the last vial , let this church bear the title of the church in sardis : from that time till the fourth thunder , let it wear the name of philadelphia : * from the fourth thunder till christ come visibly to judgement in the clouds , let the church bear the name of laodicea . these are the seven intervals , which how well they will fit with the titles of these distinct successive states of the church and the things spoken of them in the vision , i will anon endeavour to unfold . chap. ii. a farther preparation out of the first chapter of the apocalypse , whereby this propheticall meaning of the vision of the seven churches is more clearly assured . but in the mean time , for the greater assurance of this propheticall or mysticall sense , we will first make some farther remarks upon the first chapter of the apocalypso . where we will make onely this one modest supposition ; that the spirit of god sets down nothing immethodically nor in vain , or at least nothing vainly immethodicall . wherefore upon the very first verse , which bears the title of the whole book ; the revelation of jesus christ , which god gave unto him , to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass , that is , things to come to pass ; some shortly , and other some in succession of time , as all interpreters agree ; i cannot but note this , that if the spirit of god do but respicere titulum , ( as most certainly he will ) he will set down no entire visions , as this of the seven churches is , but they must in the main be of things to come to pass , not of things present merely , and not hid , but obvious to the eyes of men , as the state of the churches here mentioned was to the world at that time . and therefore something farther must be meant by them then can be contained in the literal sense ; which is not of things to come , as the title requires , but onely of things present , or some promises or threatnings that do not properly amount to the nature of prophetical prediction , no more then the law of moses to which they are annexed . . blessed is he that readeth , and they that hear the word of this prophecy , for the time is at hand . this again plainly shews that this book is all of it , i mean all the entire visions thereof , a book of prophecies ; which , as i intimated before , mere promises and threatnings cannot make it no more then they do those laws of moses to which they are adjoyned . and though the several states of the seven churches may be applicable to several states of particular churches of after-ages in christendome l yet it cannot properly be in this literal sense by way of prediction , but of example of vertue or vice , of pious or impious actions , which repeatedly happen in all history . whence if there be no more in it then thus , these epistles to the seven churches cannot be deemed any prophecy , and therefore are heterogeneous to the scope and title of the book . . but upon the so expresly calling this a book of prophecies for john to salute the seven churches in asia with this salutation , grace be unto you , and peace , from him which is , and which was , and which is to come ; methinks it does even forcibly drive a man to conceive that the vision of the seven churches which he so immediately falls upon , is a prophecy , according to the title immediately mentioned in the foregoing verse . besides that the description of the party in whose name he salutes them , which is , and which was , and which is to come , does very naturally insinuate that he is treating of what reaches from the beginning of the church to the latest ages thereof . which he insists more upon in the seventh verse ; ( after he has spoken of the person of christ ) behold , he cometh with the clouds , ( this reaches the last period of laodicea , when god will judge all people , ) and every eye shall see him , and they also which pierced him ; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him , ( for the earth shall then be burnt up with the works thereof : ) even so , amen . this will certainly come to pass about the seventh thunder , ( in that dark hollow dungeon , where there shall be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth , ) let the sons of infidelity or unbelief conceit what they will to the contrary . wherefore the minde and scope of the spirit of prophecy seems here to be carried out even to the utmost ages of the world . . according as he declares in the next verse , i am alpha and omega , the beginning and the ending , saith the lord , which is , and which was , and which is to come , the almighty . that wisedome and power that reaches from one end to another mightily and sweetly orders all things . this methinks strongly insinuates that the vision of the seven churches ( as well as the vision of the seven seals and of the opened book ) reaches from the beginning of the church to the end of all things . which consideration is so repeated to us , that certainly it must not stand for nought , but is to give infallible aim at a higher meaning of the seven churches then we are at first aware of . for the summary of the vision , before he descends to the particular churches , begins and ends with this , v. . and . i am the first and the last , and have the keyes of hell and of death . which undoubtedly respects the execution of the final sentence under the seventh thunder . . but there is first this not able to be observed in the tenth verse : i was in the spirit on the lord's day , and heard behind me a great voice as of a trumpet . this pompous entrance with the sound of the trumpet into this vision of the seven churches , and the glorious appearance of the son of man walking in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks with seven stars in his right hand , comes up so near to that splendid preamble to the vision of the seven seals , that any sagacious man cannot but suspect that both the visions be of like extent and importance , and not of such private concern as merely to respect those seven churches in asia . for at the beginning of both these visions there is the glorious appearance of christ in the midst of the church : in the first , standing or walking in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks ; in the latter , sitting in the midst of the four beasts and four and twenty elders : and both these preambles to the future visions ushered in with the sound of the trumpet . wherefore the pomp being equal , the concern of each vision in all likelihood is equal . nor can it be pretended that the pomp before the vision of the seven churches was designed as a fair frontispice to the whole book of prophecies , because at least as splendid a frontispice is again erected before the vision of the seven seals . wherefore that former was entirely intended for the visions of the seven churches , and therefore portends some mighty concerning mysterie therein , and such as the present affairs of those seven particular churches in asia could not reach nor exhaust . but we proceed . . saying , i am alpha and omega , the first and the last : and what thou seest write in a book , and send it unto the seven churches which be in asia . here again , immediately before his sending to the seven churches of asia , he displays those titles of himself that least of all suit with the small continuance of those particular churches . but the holy catholick church endures from the beginning to the end of all . upon which therefore i cannot doubt but the spirit of prophecy had his eye at this time , and in the mystery understood by the seven churches in asia the holy catholick church divided into seven successive intervalls , according to the opinion of petrus galatinus . for indeed in all reason , ( if there was not some grand mysterie underneath , ) why should onely seven churches in asia be writ to , when there were others , many others , either there , or at least in other parts of the empire , in all likelihood as notorious for either the faults , the vertues , or the sufferings that are noted in these ? . you 'll say haply , that asia minor was the special diocese as it were of s. john. but they that answer thus forget that john was merely passive in these visions , and wrote no otherwise then he was moved by the holy ghost , which is no respecter of persons . besides that there were certainly other churches in asia besides these seven . why therefore just seven ? and why these ? but that seven signifies universality , is obvious in the prophetick style . therefore to the seven churches in asia is as much as to all the churches in asia . but it 's much that all the churches in asia minor should be thus carefully saluted by the holy ghost , and the rest of the churches in the christian world be taken no notice of : as if it were according to the proverb , that kissing goes by favour ; whenas yet it is expresly said in the scripture , that god is no respecter of persons , as i intimated before . . but you will farther urge , that we cannot possibly make it any more then all the churches in asia , unlesse asia were turned into an appellative . which consideration will put a bar to all attempts for any mysticall interpretation , so that we must necessarily rest in the literal . but hugo grotius , who interpreteth all the churches also mystically from the reason of their names , yet takes no notice of any allusive signification in the word asia . so that in this learned man's judgement that sequel is not so firm . but besides , though i do not love to play with words more then needs must , i think it not hard to finde out an allusive signification apposite enough in the name of asia to the mysticall sense intended . for both 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( the former signifying fundamentum , the latter actio or effectio ) as to their paronomasticall sound are as near asia as the nicest criticall ear can require in these cases . and for the sense of them both , it is extremely accommodate to the present purpose . for then will this superscription , to the seven churches in asia , either signifie , to all the churches in the foundation , that is , that keep to the apostolick foundation in matter of doctrine and profession ; or else , to all the churches in action , that is to say , these epistles are writ to them with an intended censure of their actions . and it is said expresly by the logician touching the topick of effects and actions , hujus loci sunt laudes & vituperationes : upon which all these epistles altogether run . and , i know thy works , begins every epistle . besides that they are directed to none but such as profess the fundamentals of the christian faith , and nothing repugnant thereunto ; as will appear in our interpretation of them . nor is it strange that s. john , though writing in greek , should ( himself being a jew ) make an allusion to hebrew words ; nor is it without example . for the son of sirach does plainly in that passage in the greek text , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , allude to the hebrew word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to hide , as if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were as much as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . these verbal allusions are so frequent in the prophetick style , that there is no need farther to take notice thereof : nor any doubt , i think , but the spirit of god would not in this book of prophecies , where all things are so comprehensive and majestick , salute onely seven particular churches of all the churches of the world , and that with such pompous circumstances ; nor when he had begun so magnificently a book of prophecies , and so expresly intitled it so , that he would immediately afterwards , as if he had forgot what he was about , bring in a large vision consisting of seven parts , wherein there is nothing at all propheticall , but onely the reproof or praises , the comminations or promises to a few particular churches . this is not according to the steddy order and method of divine wisedome , especially in this book , then which there never was nor ever will be any thing more accurately written . . and he had in his right hand seven stars . methinks it is extremely harsh to conceit that these seven stars are merely the seven bishops of any seven particular churches of asia , as if the rest were not supported nor guided by the hand of christ , or as if there were but seven in his right hand , but all the rest in his left . such high representations cannot be appropriated to any seven particular churches whatsoever . but seven must signifie all in both coexistence and in succession to the end of the world . which is a sense worthy so sublime a book as this of the apocalypse , and correspondent to the meaning of the rest of the septenaries that occur in this book of prophecy , they signifying an entire succession of some seven things or other which they are brought in to represent . . the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches , and the seven candlesticks which thou samest are the seven churches . though according to the literal sense these seven churches and the seven angels are easily applicable to those particular seven churches of asia above specify'd ; yet i cannot but conceive , that he not calling them here the seven churches of asia , but seven churches in general , it is an invitation to the searching out some more large propheticall sense , such as we drive at ; as also , in that he says the angels of the seven churches at large , and not of asia , nor names the churches by name ; but especially in that he calls them angels , in stead of bishops or pastours . for he continuing so in the propheticall style proper to this book , that ascribes all to the ministry of angels , it is a sign that the letters to the seven angels of the churches have also a propheticall sense as well as a literal , or rather that that is the sense that is most chiefly of all intended . . all these intimations put togegether out of this first chapter toward the assurance of a propheticall meaning of the seven churches of asia have that force with me , that though i could not my self produce such a continued mysticall or propheticall sense which would be all along easie and natural , yet i could not but vehemently suspect that there is some such sense , though it were not in my power to reach it . but if i have through the divine assistence light on such a sense as is both continually coherent , important , and according to the analogie of the propheticall style , i hope this preparation will even extort the belief thereof from the reader . but such as it is i shall now present to his view . chap. iii. the interpretation of the epistle to the ephesine church . . it was intimated out of the last verse of the foregoing chapter , that the omission of the appropriating the seven churches to asia by name was a fair invitation to us to suspect a more large and released sense of this vision of the seven churches . and indeed this releasement is more free in the greek copy then in our english translation . for the original runs thus ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are seven churches : not the seven churches which in the literal sense one might be prone to imagine to be none other then those situate in asia minor ; but this division of the churches into seven in the mysticall sense is rather distributio ex adjunctis then è subjectis , the whole catholick church in its succession from the beginning to the end being cast into seven intervalls , according to seven notorious qualifications or conditions thereof . for so we say , the primitive church , the apostatized church , the reformed church , &c. denoting not their place , but rather their time and quality ; which the genius of the prophetick style , if it were to express them , would exhibite as so many churches distinctly situate . . but besides this , it is farther to be noted , that the omission of the appropriating these seven churches to asia does also fairly quit the mysticall interpreter of giving any account of the signification of that name , it being omitted in the interpretation of the seven golden candlesticks . which i thought worth the noting , t●●● all pretense of cavill might be taken from them that may haply prove lesse satisfy'd with our giving an account of that greek name from an hebrew allusion , though their cavill to the more judicious i hope will seem altogether groundless . . nor , lastly , does the returning of the spirit of prophecy to the seven churches by name , in these epistles written to them , determine the vision solely and adequately to those seven churches of asia topically understood ; forasmuch as the names of all those churches at least by an easie allusion have an appellative signification , and manifestly denote their quality and condition ; as we shall see in the process of our exposition . . first therefore of the church of ephesus , which christ salutes after this manner : unto the angel of the church of ephesus write ; these things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand , and who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks . that by angels , according to the apocalyptick style , all the agents under their presidency are represented or insinuated , i have already noted : and it is so frequent and obvious in the apocalypse , that none that is versed therein can any ways doubt of it . wherefore christ his writing to the angel of the church of ephesus in this mysticall sense , is his writing to all bishops , pastours and christians in this first apostolicall intervall of the church . and that particularly in this epistle to this church ( i mean , in the mysticall sense thereof ) he recommends himself to them under the character of him that holds the seven stars in his right hand , and who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks , the sense , stripp'd of this propheticall pomp , is , that i am he that supports all my bishops and pastours , and all that labour for the interest of my kingdome , from this time for ever : i am present with them , and uphold them . as he said at the first founding of the church , goe ye therefore and teach all nations , baptizing them in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost ; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you . and , lo , i am with you alway , even unto the end of the world . he is in the midst of his church where-ever two or three are gathered together in his name : he walks through , in the midst of the successions of the seven intervalls of the church , the seven golden candlesticks , till the end of all . this is to encourage the beginning of his church , and is methodically put in the first place , as being general , and running through all the intervalls thereof till the end of the world . but that the frontispice , as i before called it , to this vision of the seven churches , which was the glorious character of our blessed saviour , is made use of by piece-meal for an entrance into the parts of this vision , as it is in them all ; i cannot but take notice how fitly it answers to the vision of the seals , where the parts of the frontispice are also made use of to usher in four of the seals ; for the four beasts one after another ( and that with apposite significancy , as here , ) at the opening of the four first seals are introduced uttering this voice , come and see . wherefore there being the like contrivance in both visions , it is a shrewd intimation that they are visions of like importance , that is , very reachingly and comprehensively propheticall ; as i endeavoured to evince out of the first chapter . . and how accommodate that part of the character of our blessed saviour is to this part of the vision that concerns the ephesine church , is already declared . we shall now confider the fitnesse of the paronomasticall allusion in the name . for that the propheticall style does affect such allusions , both grotius and mr. mede , and all interpreters that i know , are agreed upon . and grotius does particularly give the reason of the names of all these churches in his commentary on the apocalypse . so that there is nothing of levity or indiscretion in the attempting of the same . in ephesus therefore , for ought i know , there may be a double allusion , both to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being one of the three matres lectionis , as they are called , contained in it both e and a , it does plainly intimate , that the sound of e and a are not so extremely different one from another . but as for the sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is hugely well and peculiarly accommodate to this church , it being the first intervall of the seven , as it were the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies the same , ) the careeres or lists from whence the race begins of the succession of all the seven churches , which ends in the end of the world . and s. paul compares the calling of christians to a race . . but as for the other word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which grotius also expresly takes notice of , and pitches upon , the allusion thereto is unexceptionable both as to sound and signification . for it denotes that great servour and zealous desire the church in those first primitive and apostolick times had to the affairs of christ , and to the interest of his kingdome ; that they did sincerely and earnestly , under the conduct of that heros on the white horse , with his bow and arrow in his right hand , aim at and press toward the mark of the prize of the high calling of god in christ jesus ; they were inflamed with the desire of enlarging the kingdome of christ here , and of obtaining that immarcescible crown hereafter , and of eating the fruit of eternall life in the celestiall paradise of god. this was the first love of this church , this was their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , their vehement and sincere desire , and onely scope of their actions , that they might serve christ here , and enjoy him afterwards in his heavenly kingdome . and therefore out of this fervent love to christ , and sense of their own happinesse , they did at first easily devour all difficulties . . as it is noted in the two following verses : i know thy works , and thy labour , and thy patience , and how thou canst not bear with such as are evil . for those that are sincerely and fervently good , it cannot but make them have an antipathy against what is evil , and discern them that bear themselves never so apostolically , and yet are not right at the bottome , to be but hypocrites and liers . and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles , and are not . that there were false apostles , deceitfull workers , transforming themselves into the apostles of christ , in the apostles time , ( within which the period of this church is , ) the apostle paul takes notice cor. . . which therefore is very agreeable to the intervall of this first church . for when should any pretend to be apostles sent from god , but in that age there were apostles sent into the world by him ? and hast born , and hast patience , and for my name 's sake hast laboured , and hast not fainted . what is here is much-what the same sense and words as were in the foregoing verse : but it is not repeated in vain . for these words i suppose , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , have a special correspondence to the reward promised in the . verse . he that will not labour shall not eat : but he that labours very much , and breaks not off by reason of any lazy fainting or culpable lassitude , is worthy to be fed with the bread of life . but besides , this labour and patience in the highest circumstances is here repeated , the better to set off the present remissness of some in this ephesine church , as it is in the next verse . . neverthelesse , i have something against thee , because thou hast left thy first love , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . grotius and dr. hammond expound it , because thou hast remitted of thy first love , and so allow 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to signifie relaxation and remission in a contrary sense to intension of degrees : whence there may be another ground of allusion in ephesus to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in counter distinction to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so that this ephesine church may have its name from its first intense love and its after remission thereof , by this double allusion . but as the allusion to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is more perfect then that to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so questionless this first intervall of the church was more famous for their sincere and real love to christ , then for their remissnesse therein . which serves something for the countenancing of the term of this intervall . because thou hast left thy first love : that is to say , because thou hast ceased to be so fervent in spirit as at the first . which first love , being according to the measure of christ's own prescript , was certainly such as made the ephesine church love christ more then father , or mother , or wife , or children , or any worldly interest whatsoever , accordingly as he requires . but towards the end of the intervall of this first succession of the church this love and courage it seems began to abate , and too many began to gnosticize , as it is called , in that point , and think it a small thing to deny the faith in the time of persecution , even those that yet professed themselves of the church , and were believers . that this was within the intervall of the ephesine church ( in our sense ) several reproofs and exhortations in the epistles of the apostles do plainly evince . see dr. hammond's notes on this church , which fully reach our design . and the epistles of paul , and the first of peter , and that to the hebrews , were all writ within that intervall we have set for the ephesine church , and their faults committed before . which defaults this vision rebukes and threatens them for , by way of instruction for future ages , as it is in the following verse . . remember therefore from whence thou art fallen , and repent , and doe the first works . he bids them return to their first love , which was more strong then death . and it was fit to give this command and encouragement to the church , because of greater trials to come in her smyrnian condition . for before the ten persecutions martyrdome was more rare . or else i will come unto thee quickly , and will remove thy candlestick out of his place , except thou repent . that is , by an hypallage , i will remove thee from thy candlestick : which therefore is directed more especially to the bishops or pastours of the church at that time , as threatning them for falling into such a remiss degree of love themselves , or suffering their charges so to fall . for the seven candlesticks are the seven churches , ch. . v. . and the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches , that is to say , the bishops and pastours of the church . wherefore this commination to them may by an hypallage signifie their being removed from the church by some judgement or other , that is , as many of them as were thus carelesse and remisse . but to any members of the church the removing of the candlestick from them may be their amission of their church-membership ; as eripere alicui , or adimere alicui civitatem , is to make him cease to be a citizen any longer . which sense is also competible to the bishops or pastours ; christ may cut them off in foro divino from being any longer members of his church , and consequently from salvation . but there is yet another sense which pleaseth me best of all , in which victorinus , andreas , lyranus and alcazar do all agree , who interpret the removing of the candlestick out of its place , of the commination of some commotion or storm that should overtake this church ; not that this church should be carried quite away , but moved or agitated as in a storm or earthquake . this they understand of the ephesine church in asia literally : which is an argument that the interpretation seemed very easie and genuine unto them . and it is as easily applicable to our mysticall sense . but i would raise the storm a little higher , and make it signifie the storm of that dreadfull persecution that was to befall the church in the smyrnian intervall thereof . for it is look'd upon still as the apostolick church from the beginning to the end , though distinguished into these several intervalls . and it is observable , that there is in every epistle to the respective church some prediction to be fulfilled in the intervall of the following church . which i thought fit here to note at once , and shall particularly , as we proceed , take notice thereof in their proper places . the sense therefore seems to be this ; that unless the church in this ephesine intervall would be raised to an higher pitch of zeal , and love , and activity for the propagating of his kingdome , christ would excite their courage , and exercise it with such hot persecutions ( sanguis martyrum semen ecclesiae ) as would be more effectual for the bringing to pass his design . and it sell out accordingly in the ten persecutions within the smyrnian period of the church . . but this thou hast , that thou hatest the deeds of the nicolaitans , which i also hate . the church by this time had grown so soft and remisse , that there was not that zealous painfulnesse as heretofore in several of them , nor that resolved courage in suffering all things for christ's sake : yet they were not grown so corrupt and beastly as to be given up to the impurity of the nicolaitans , which in after-times some exercised from a mistake of an indiscreet act of one nicolas a deacon in these very times of the apostles . and from him were these beastly fellows called nicolaitans . but little or nothing of this impurity appeared within the period of this ephesine church , which yet the spirit of god foresaw would become detestably frequent and notorious in such wretches as , though they called themselves christians , the apostolick church would not own . this is allowed the ephesine church for their comfort and credit , that they are free from nicolaitism : and that they may adde to their purity invincible patience and fortitude , he adds , to him that overcometh will i give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of god. for their works and labour and pains-taking here is eating and refreshing promised them ; for their patience and hardship , a paradise of pleasure ; for their laying down their lives for the gospel , the enjoyment of eternal life in the kingdome of christ. lord , remember me when thou comest into thy kingdome . verily i say unto thee , this day shalt thou be with me in paradise . but we had almost forgot the former part of the seventh verse : he that hath an ear , let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches . which being a common epiphonema to all these seven epistles , repeated in them from the first to the last , certainly must bear no small importance with it . two things therefore i conceive driven at by the affixing this epiphonema to each epistle . the one , to give us notice , that though there be a literal sense of these epistles , yet that they are every one of them also a parable ; which is intimated from this repeated form of speech which christ in his life-time usually added at the end of parables , he that has ears to hear , let him hear . besides that the very sense of the epiphonema implies so much ; which is , he that has an understanding to reach the depth of the meaning of these epistles , let him reach it . for it is not within the reach of every man's wit to find out the drift of them . the other thing driven at is , to intimate to us that there is a meaning lodged under these seven parabolicall epistles of exceeding great moment and concernment to the church . from whence i would inferre , that that interpretation of them that is of the greatest consequence is the most likely to prove true . and such i conceive this will approve it self to the judicious which we are now a-framing . and thus much of the first succession of the church , under the title of ephesus . chap. iv. the interpretation of the epistle to the church in smyrna . . and unto the angel of the church in smyrna write . we come now to the second succession of the state of the church , whose title is , the church in smyrna , and whose intervall is from the tenth of nero , or anno christi . till anno christi . when constantine the great , a zealous professour of christianity , had subdued the most potent enemies of it and himself . for then the church was raised out of the dust , or rather out of the mire and bloud that she was troden down into by the ten cruel persecutions , and began to be the church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the church in sublimity and exaltation , according to the signification of that word . but in this intervall of their afflictions and martyrdome she was the church in smyrna . now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are all one , and signifie myrrh ; which whether you respect the plant it self , which grows in sandy , dry and uncultivated places , and is it self rough and thorny with sharp pricking leaves , or else the gumme of the tree , which is biting and bitter to the taste , and has its very name from thence in the syriack , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quia amara , as martinius notes , it is very significative of this intervall of the church that succeeds , wherein those horrible pagan persecutions raised against the christians are comprehended . so that smyrna signifies the bitter affliction and persecution of the church , as that lamp named wormwood does the sad calamity of the western caesareate . . to which you may add that smyrna , that is to say , myrrh , was a main ingredient in the embalming of the bodies of the dead : which again reflects upon the many funerals , or rather deaths and martyrdoms , of the members of the church which would be caused by the persecutions of those times . besides that , as myrrh keeps the body from corruption , it may be a symbol of the eternizing of the memory of the martyrs to all posterities . not to take notice of their conserving of their very bodies themselves , which they call reliques ; though this allusion can be no countenance to the abuses in those things . and lastly , this allusion to myrrh is still the more emphaticall , in that the body of our saviour , that faithfull witness , as he styles himself , after his martyrdome on the cross is said to be embalmed with myrrh , john . . these things saith the first and the last , who was dead , and is alive . the titles that christ adorns himself with when he speaks to the church of ephesus are , he that holds the seven stars in his right hand , and who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks , namely , through all the successions of them ; like that promise , behold , i am with you to the end of the world ; intimating thereby the presence of his spirit , through which he would in all difficulties sustain the bishops and pastours of his church . which general signification seems well enough proportioned or fitted to the condition of the church of ephesus , he expresly requiring of them no more then zeal and courage in the general : but now he speaks to the church in smyrna , and there enters a more bloudy scene and terrible , he seems to encourage them with higher and more palpable and particular animations in the very entrance of his discourse ; these things saith the first and the last , the same that began the war for this kingdome we strive for , and will be the last in the field to assist my friends and discomfit mine enemies , as well as i was the first . and be not afraid of dying for the truth ; for though i was crucify'd my self , yet , behold , i am now alive . and i tell you it for a pledge unto you of the same happinesse , if you lay down your lives ( as the times will shortly require it ) for me and for my gospel . this is very particular and apposite to the condition of the church in this smyrnian intervall , wherein there were to be so many and so bloudy persecutions . . i know thy works and tribulation and poverty : that is to say , i know the great affliction and misery thou art oppressed withall , being destitute of all the comforts of this present life , and in danger of death every moment . which is a right smyrnian condition indeed , according to the title of the church in smyrna . but thou art rich : namely , with those spiritual graces of meeknesse , of patience , of christian courage and fortitude , and of sincere and invincible love of the lord jesus even to the death it self . and i know the blasphemy of them that say they are jews , and are not , but are the synagogue of satan . that is , i take notice of the reproach that those men cast upon christianity , who call themselves christians , and yet make nothing of dissembling and denying the faith upon the arising of any persecutions for my name 's sake ; as if a christian could be such a vile , false and abject hypocrite . this is to blaspheme them that are called by my name . the right christian is the true jew , whose heart is circumcised , and therefore he will not lie with his tongue ; and whose faith is so strong in me , and hopes so firm of a better life , that he can , if the cause of my gospel so require , willingly part with this for the love of me and for the interest of my kingdome . these are the true members of my church who are for suffering , the other the synagogue of satan ; as i told peter , when he would have disswaded me from undergoing the death of the cross , get thee behind me , satan , for thou savourest not the things of god. that the jews signifie the christian church , there is nothing more frequent in the apocalyptick style then that . and this mention of these false christians in opposition to these smyrnian sufferers does plainly insinuate that sense which i have given . . fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer . do not imitate the base cowardise of this synagogue of satan , these hypocrites and dissemblers . after that sharp reprehension of flinchers from the faith , he returns to encourage and corroborate the church in smyrna : behold , the devil shall cast some of you into prison , that ye may be tried , and ye shall have tribulation ten days . the red dragon , that old serpent , in his fight with michael , ( for the things of that vision are co-incident with this smyrnian intervall of the church , ) i say , the pagans incensed by the old serpent , will cast several of you into prison , that your faith may be tried , and god may receive the glory of your fortitude and constancy . this you shall have for ten days , that is , till the time of consummation that victory and redemption be wrought for you , or that you die . or rather thus , you shall have tribulation for ten days : there will be ten seasons of bloudy persecutions which you must run through ; those ten persecutions so famous in church-history , and so frequent in the mouths of all men . which consideration , among others , does not a little ratifie this our exposition of the church of smyrna , and consequently gives strength to the whole hypothesis of the seven successive intervalls . be ye faithfull unto death , and i will give you the crown of life . that is to say , stand out till the consummation of the ten persecutions wherewith ye will be tried , and ye shall have the crown of life : i will crown you with the imperial crown , which shall prove a crown of life unto you . christianity shall become at length the religion of the empire , which will save you for the future from the deadly persecutions of the red dragon . you shall be no longer subject to the cruelty of roman paganism for the profession of your religion . this therefore will be a crown of life unto you . this is according to that apoc. . . and there shall be no more death ; that is , there shall be no more persecution and killing for conscience sake : which was the sad case of this smyrnian church under the pagan cruelty in an eminent manner . wherefore when they had wone their freedome , it was a crown of life to them , by the law of contraries . that this is the genuine sense will farther appear from what follows . . he that hath an ear to hear , let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches . this being an usual epiphonema to parables plainly intimates , that what hitherto has been said is a parabolicall prophecy . and the nature of a prophecy is , to foretell such things as are to be transacted here on earth . and therefore where the promise is not divine , or concerning the state after this life , the epiphonema follows : as is very conspicuous in the promise to the church of thyatira , which is the first example of the epiphonema coming last of all ; which is a sign that the whole epistle there is propheticall : verse . and he that overcometh and keepeth my words unto the end , to him will i give power over the nations , &c. which therefore concerns the stage of this earth . and therefore this promise here of the crown of life before the epiphonema , i would interpret of a reward in this life on this earth , according as i have expounded the passage . but now that which follows this epiphonema is a promise of another sort , viz. he that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death : for it is the securing of a blessed immortality after this life ; and seems farther to correspond with that passage in the apocalypse , ch. . v. . blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection : on such the second death hath no power . wherefore though not according to the inference of rigid syllogism , yet according to those nice and delicate hints in propheticall intimations , i would conclude that the promise of their portion in the first resurrection is here proposed to those afflicted smyrnians , which was the proper portion of martyrs and confessours , according to the opinion of the primitive church , as mr. mede has learnedly and judiciously observed . which granted does hugely corroborate this application of the epistle to the church in smyrna to this intervall which contains the times of all the sufferings in a manner of the primitive martyrs . the promise of a blessed immortality had been very proper and accommodate to this smyrnian state of the church , that were so frequently to lose their lives for profession of the gospel : but for it to be intimated to them that these shall have their portion in the first resurrection , which is proper to martyrs , as appears by the place above quoted , is so characteristicall of this intervall , wherein all the primitive martyrs suffered , viz. in those ten persecutions , that it does marvellously confirm the truth of the exposition of this present epistle in this mysticall way we have gone . and thus much of the church in smyrna , that is in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the bitternesse of oppression and affliction , as the allusion to that syriack word imports . we proceed to the church in pergamus . chap. v. the interpretation of the epistle to the church in pergamus . . and to the angel of the church in pergamus write . the intervall of this church is from the year of christ , when constantine utterly defeated the army of licinius , not above thirty thousand of one hundred and thirty thousand escaping , and so with his own victories made the church also triumphant out of her long and unsupportable miseries , raising her aloft from her sad oppressions and persecutions . from this year , i say , to the year , when the pope's legate amelin made an end of the albigensian war with trancavel bastard of the earl of beziers , let this be the intervall of the church in pergamus . . of the beginning of this intervall there can be no doubt . and for the termination of it , there are these two considerations to countenance it . the first , in that the latter of those numbers in the last of daniel , viz. the number , does point to the beginning of the affairs of the waldenses and albigenses , who are both one sect and from one authour , waldo of lyons , an holy and good man , whose preaching , and his own and his followers sufferings , were about the term of that number whose epoche is the prophanation of the temple by antiochus epiphanes . so considerable a passage of providence is the appearing of the waldenses in those times betwixt the year of christ and . for they were condemned for hereticks by pope alexander in the laterane council in the year , upon which you may be sure persecutions would immediately follow . and mr. mede with great judgement will have this latter number in daniel to point at these times . nor does that expression of daniel at all weaken his opinion , in that he saith , blessed is he that waiteth , and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days , because it is said in the apocalypse also , blessed are the dead that die in the lord , that is , that die for the cause of our lord jesus . and of the church of smyrna it is said , i know thy tribulation and poverty , but thou art rich . the judgement of the spirit of god and the judgement of carnal men are quite opposite in these things . what they call poverty , the spirit calls riches ; what they misery , the spirit blessednesse . wherefore the affairs of the waldenses or albigenses is a notable , distinct and conspicuous joint of time , even according to the judgement of the spirit of prophecy . but then , in the second place , i terminate the intervall of this church in pergamus , not in the beginning , but the conclusion , of these waldensian or albigensian affairs , because they being all in a manner one , and so plainly concluded in the year i have mentioned , their sufferings may the more punctually answer to the sufferings of that one martyr antipas , who is here said to be slain in pergamus . but the concinnity of these things we shall better understand after we have descanted upon the name pergamus . . that by pergamus is intimated a state of exaltation or sublimity , i intimated before . sublimia omnia dicta asiaticis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notat hesychius , suidas , & servius , saith grotius upon apoc. . . whence he would have the church in pergamus to re-mind us of high and heavenly things . but this is a moral , not a propheticall sense . but with him howsoever i acknowledge that the signification of sublimity is alluded to in the general , but here most elegantly and seasonably in reference to the precedent state of the church in smyrna , which was a state of humiliation and bitter affliction . but at the very beginning of this present intervall she so conspicuously emerging out of this low , sad , affictive state into the state of glory , peace and prosperity , what can be more significant then to salute her with the title of the church in pergamus , accordingly as she is here saluted ; which is a kind of congratulation to her fresh emergency out of her late miseries . and this sense will hold good for a time in this intervall , namely , till tho days of her apostasy : but then the apostolick church will be the church in pergamus still , but in another kind of meaning . . according therefore to the richnesse of the prophetick style , pergamus has also another sense , such as the city babylon and the city tyrus , which are put for the city of rome . but then not in such a sense as to mean the walls or stones of the roman city , but the roman church , and her power and jurisdiction . and in such a sense is pergamus also here put for rome . so that this epistle written to the church of christ in pergamus , the truly catholick and apostolick church , is directed to this church dwelling under the roman church , or within the roman churche's jurisdiction , understanding old rome especially ; as all such apocalyptick visions perstringe her most . now that rome in this sense is perstringed by this pergamus , is very evident , first , in the easie allusion of pergamus to rome from the signification of the words . for as pergamus signifies sublimity , so ( as martinius notes ) rome is from the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 exaltari . besides that her situation is high , and buildings lofty , according to that of the poet , collibus è septem totum circumspicit orbem . and the highest of all is the bishop of rome himself , who exalts himself above all that is called god , or is worshipped . is not this therefore a fit bishop of pergamus , that perks thus above all kings and emperours and princes of the earth ? and our intervall of the church of pergamus reaches the highest times of her exaltation , it taking in both gregory the seventh , who first excommunicated the emperour , and took upon him the power of making emperours himself , and alexander the third , who trode upon the neck of the emperour frederick ; as also caelestine the third , that crowned henry the sixth and his empress with his feet , and in scorn kick'd the emperour's crown off with his foot when he had crowned him . certainly the popes of rome were then the bishops of pergamus with a witnesse . nor after this intervall could they ever hold their crests so high . boniface the eighth indeed was a blusterer , and excommunicated philip the fair of france ; but he called him fool for his pains , and handled him in such sort , that , surprized at anagnia , he was disgracefully mounted on a poor jade , and so carried prisoner to rome , where pride and regret broke his heart , and so he there dy'd ingloriously . but secondly , it is said of this pergamus , that it was the most given to idolatry of all the cities of asia , ( so andreas cesariensis reports of it ; ) which is the notorious character of rome above all cities , and therefore elsewhere in the apocalypse she is called the whore of babylon for her insatiable spiritual fornications . thirdly , these pergamenians were very fierce and diligent accusers of the apostolick christians , to bring them to martyrdome , as dr. hammond upon the place notes out of ancient history . for which also rome is taxed elsewhere in the apocalypse , who is said to be drunk with the bloud of the saints , and with the bloud of the martyrs of jesus . fourthly , it is recorded of the prefect of this city pergamus , that he would persuade the christians to forsake the apostolick faith , and return to heathenism , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because the elder religion was the more precious and to be preferred : as antiquity is the great pretense of the papal church . that prefect said of christianity , that it was but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it began but the other day : and so you may be sure the church of rome said of the religion of the waldenses and albigenses . see dr. hammond upon the place . and lastly , that it should be the martyr antipas that was slain in pergamus , can any name more directly and assuredly point at the church of rome or the papal church then this ? for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is father , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is papa , ●● but a reduplication of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as eustathius has noted : and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies as much as against . and therefore who can be so blind as not to discern how fit a type this antipas is of them that within this intervall of the church should suffer for being against that holy father the pope , as he is called . nothing can sound more congruously or harmoniously , whatever any man by way of cavill can say against it . the main interpretation therefore of this present epistle to the church in pergamus will respect the pure apostolick church abiding within the jurisdiction of the roman , as this sense plainly implies ; the woman in the wildernesse , as the holy ghost elsewhere expresses it . these things saith he that hath the sharp sword with two edges . christ is set out thus in this epistle to the church in pergamns , because this sword of the spirit , which is the word of god , understood and rellished by the divine spirit in us , was the main weapon whereby the church in pergamus defended her self from the pergamenian corruptions , and so kept her self pure from the false glosses and unsound traditions of either superstitious men or crafty deceivers . . i know thy works , and where thou dwellest , even where satan's seat is ; and thou holdest fast my name , and hast not denied my faith , even in those days wherein antipas was my faithfull martyr , who was slain among you , where satan dwelleth . that is to say , i know thou doest well for the main , and to thy greater commendation i consider where thou dwellest , even where the first-born of lucifer has his throne , he that exalts himself above all that is called god or that is worshipped . ( so christ compares satan to lucifer or the king of babylon , ( of whom the prophet says , how art thou fallen , lucifer , thou son of the morning ! ) luke . . i beheld satan as lightning fall from heaven . ) and yet neither the awe nor glory of that church could cause thee to forsake my name , and , in stead of being a true christian , to become a member of antichrist , and so relinquish the pure apostolick faith , no not in those days that my faithfull martyr antipas , that is , those plain-hearted and openly-professed enemies of the pope and his adulterate and idolatrous religion , the waldenses and albigenses , were so cruelly persecuted and murthered , who were slain among you who stood out and yet escaped , though in the very synagogue of satan , that is to say , in that church which is a treacherous adversary to all my true members , and a very bitter censurer and accuser of them for their not complying with the laws of wickednesse which she hath established , and a worse adversary then the pagan dragon before , whom therefore my church overcame in a few ages . this satan , i say , is a more mischievous enemy then that red dragon , by reason of his cunning and hypocrisie , and his pretenses that he is for me , when indeed he is against me , and by reason of the abuse of my authority in pretense , against the members of my true church . wherefore i cannot but take notice where thou dwellest , and how in that regard thou art in a worse condition then the smyrnian church her self , who were onely to grapple with a professed enemy , but thou with both a malicious enemy , and a false and hypocritical friend . it is therefore well done of thee that thou holdest out in such hard and difficult circumstances . . this for the sense of that verse in general . but now particularly , why the waldenses and albigenses , that were persecuted in this intervall of the church , should be called antipas , why martyr , why faithfull , and why slain , rather then burnt , we shall briefly give this account . and that a company or successive body of men is represented in the prophetick style under one single person , is so trivial that i need not note it . alcazar makes jezebel , mentioned in the next epistle , to be the church of the jewes ; aretas , the sect of the nicolaitans ; dr. hammond , the gnosticks . but now that this one person should be called antipas , there is nothing more congruous to the doctrine of the waldenses and albigenses , who boldly preached that the pope was antichrist , the mass an abomination , the host an idol , and purgatory a fable . and waldo , the chief beginner of this sect , was of the same mind , denying the pope to be the head of the church , or that he had any authority over the kings and princes of the earth , who depend immediately upon god alone . was not this an antipas indeed then , and exactly opposing the sovereign paternity of his holiness of rome ? but they were faithfull , because they did so plainly declare to the world such concerning truths ; and martyrs , because they suffered death for so doing , it being for the cause of god , and for the interest of the kingdome of christ. and they are said to be slain , ( suppose with the sword or any weapon of war , ) not burnt , because burning was more rare within this intervall of the church ; but they were slain in the field many hundred thousands of them . a great number of the waldenses that took arms in germany were cut in pieces in the year , ( as matthew paris writes ; ) they being in such a disadvantageous place , betwixt marish ground and the sea , that they could make no escape . and mr. mede , out of petrus perionius in his book of this albigensian war , intimates that near ten hundred thousand of them were slain in battel at times , and that in france alone . wherefore slaying with the sword is very characteristically spoken here in this epistle of the faithfull martyr antipas ; burning as yet being in it self not so frequent , and bearing no proportion at all to this vast number slain in the field . whence this is a considerable note of distinction betwixt this present intervall of the church in pergamus from that of her abode in thyatira , as we shall see in its due place . . but i have a few things against thee , because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of balaam , who taught balac to cast a stumbling-block before the children of israel , to eat things sacrificed unto idols , and to commit fornication . this is spoken to the whole body of those that in their judgements did condemn both the doctrine and practices of the church of rome . but these may be cast into three sorts : such as notwithstanding this judgement still held communion with her , and pretended they did well in so doing ; those that separated from her communion ; and those that not onely separated , but suffered death for so doing . these last were the martyr antipas above named ; the first the balaamites here reproved , that were of a more gnostick-like temper , too much leaning towards the flesh , thinking themselves wiser then the other in not exposing themselves for their judgement in religion . ye do well indeed , saith he , in declaring against the enormities of the papal church , and in condemning them in your own thoughts and consciences : but this i take ill of you , that ye permit ( some of you ) the doctrine of balaam to take effect , that is , by communicating with this church of rome in her idolatrous eucharist , and by eating her deus panaceus , ye commit spiritual fornication , and become guilty of idolatry . ( to eat things sacrificed to idols is one mode of idolatry , but by a propheticall diorism it signifies idolatry in general . ) that ye indulge this liberty to your selves or others , is to cast a stumbling-block before the children of israel , and to occasion and encourage many to adhere to the roman communion , when they ought to separate from her , that there be no prejudice done to my true church , nor dis-interest to my kingdome . . so hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the nicolaitans , which thing i hate . that also is a fault amongst some of you , that you do not possesse your vessels in that holinesse and sanctity ye ought to doe : and though you can discover the spiritual fornications of pergamus and their luciferian pride , yet ye are not so pure and clean as ye ought to be , and free from the lusts of the flesh , ( which vice is here noted by nicolaitism dioristically , as idolatry in general before by eating things sacrificed to idols . ) flesh and bloud is over-prone to think little ill of such things , because they are so natural and pleasing : but i declare a pertly unto you , that it is a thing that i hate . be ye holy even as i am holy . repent , or else i will come unto thee quickly , and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth . amend these faults , left i come to you suddenly in judgement . haply by the more sedulous activity of the lords of the inquisition , whose reign was most chiefly in the following intervall , as also of other judicatures ; the pragmaticalnesse of whose agents will be more then ordinarily ready to discover every one that dissembles his religion ; and the frequent terrour of being burnt alive at the stake will more effectually suppresse the flames of all wantonnesse and lust. and as i will come to you thus in judgement unlesse ye repent ; so i am resolved also farther to fight against your adversaries , the pergamenians or romanists , with the sword of my mouth , till i cut off great branches from the body of that far-spreading tree , and dismember whole nations from the community of that idolatrous church by the power of the word and the preaching of the gospel . this is that which is predictory of some events to happen in the following intervall , according to the genius of these epistles . . to him that overcometh will i give to eat of the hidden manna . the promise here following the epiphonema , ( he that hath an ear to hear , let him hear , ) must , according to the rule , signifie theologically or spiritually , not physically or politically . wherefore the sense is , those of pergamus indeed pretend , that when they give that white and sweet consecrated wafer into the mouths of their communicants , they give them the true manna , my very body and bloud which was shed on the crosse , and my very flesh that was there crucified and broken for them ; whenas notwithstanding they order their eucharist so , that they turn my supper into a feast of idolothyta , and make the partakers thereof guilty of idolatry or spiritual fornication , forasmuch as they give divine worship to that which is not god. so that as , in the case of balaam , the israelites were to eat things sacrificed to idols in order to carnal fornication , so they that partake of this perverted eucharist are necessarily ipso facto ( especially since the fourth laterane council ) drawn into spiritual fornication or idolatry . but he that is courageous and abstains from this illicit communion , and through faith overcomes all difficulties , for the quitting that outward white visible wafer , i will give him to eat of the hidden manna , of that true spiritual manna mentioned john . for my flesh is meat indeed , and my bloud is drink indeed . but the words i there speak they are spirit , and they are life . or if he die in the cause , i will give him the hidden manna , even the invisible food of angels , and his soul shall passe into the society of the blessed genii and holy souls of saints departed this life . . and i will give him a white stone , and in the stone a new name written , which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it . that is to say , though he be accused and reproached for an heretick and schismatick in the church of pergamus , where satan the accuser dwells , yet i will give him a white stone , and quit him in judgement , and establish the joy and peace of a good conscience unto him . or thus ; i will give him a white stone , in which there is a new name written ; that is , his old man shall be throughly crucified , and he shall attain to the state of the new man in the purity thereof , and enjoy that inestimable jewel of the divine nature pure and permanent , which no man knows the excellency of till he be made partaker thereof . i will consummate regeneration to him either in this life , or upon his passage into the other state , if he be snatched away by a sudden martyrdome . and this will more then countervail all the injuries the lofty church of pergamus can doe to him in life , goods , or good name . chap. vi. the interpretation of the epistle to the church in thyatira . . and to the angel of the church in thyatira write . the true church of christ is still in the power and within the jurisdiction of the church of rome : and therefore as rome has been set out by the city of babylon , tyre , and pergamus , so is it here in this intervall necessarily to be understood by the city of thyatira , i mean in such a sense as it was by the city of pergamus . that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( from whence both strabo and pliny , and others that are criticks , fetch the reason of the name thyatira ) is alluded to , i am inclinable to think from those authorities ; and that the womanishnesse of the church of rome in this period is perstringed . that her softnesse and luxury was more then ordinarily increased in this intervall is not to be doubted , as certainly her covetousnesse , as also her prankings and adornings in the splendour of their altars , and churches , and copes , and the like . which could not be so continuedly and so high in the former intervall . but here all along she may well be looked upon as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , filia delicatula , a delicate damosel indeed , sitting like a queen , and knowing no sorrow , when a little before she was like to be over-run by the waldenses and albigenses , and was fain to enter the field , and fight manfully for her own safety . a little after the beginning of this intervall did innocent the fourth appoint in the council at lyons , that the cardinals should go in their rosie-coloured hats and robes , and ride upon horses with furniture and trappings sutable to the greatnesse of their order , and delicacy of their condition . and the mitre of paul the second is taken speciall notice of for the exceeding preciousnesse of the jewels therein . and no doubt there was the like encrease of the ecclesiastick bravery every-where . a little before the beginning of this intervall did honorius the third appoint the carmelites to goe in white , that they might look more maiden-like , and decreed that they should be called the family of the virgin. and the franciscans and dominicans are notorious all along this intervall , who had the virgin mary for their peculiar patronesse . and indeed within this intervall the roman church ran so much in the seminine strain , that they generally professed themselves more under the government and providence of our lady then of our lord jesus christ. gregory the ninth , a little before the beginning of this present intervall , ordained that salve regina , an hymn to the blessed virgin , should be sung in all churches . boniface the eighth , in the year , composed that oraison , ave , virgo gloriosa : and in the year , the mary psalter and her rosarie were composed by * alanus de rupe . . and how feminine this church was in this intervall , the observations of that excellent person sr. edwyn sandys ( though after the expiration thereof , when one would think they should in policy have been more castigate in their religion ) will give us fully to understand . the honour , faith he , which they doe to the virgin mary is double for the most part unto that which they doe unto our saviour . where one professes himself a devoto or peculiar servant of our lord , whole towns are the devoti of our lady . the stateliest churches are hers lightly , and in churches hers the fairest altars . where one prayeth before the crucifix , two before her image : where one voweth to christ , ten vow to her : and for one miracle reported to be wrought by the crucifix , not so sew perhaps as an hundred are voiced upon the images of the virgin . their devils in exorcism are also taught to endure the name of god or the trinity without trouble ; but at the naming of our lady , to tosse and seem much tormented . where one fasts on friday upon the account of the passion of our lord , many fast on saturday upon the account of his mother . and to their beads they string up ten salutations of our lady to one of our lord's prayers . the * bell also which is rung at sun-rise , at noon and sun-set , is called the ave-mary bell , whereby all men every-where at those set times might be engaged to doe their devotions to the virgin mary . and , lastly , their chief preachers do teach in pulpit , whatsoever is found in scripture spoken of christ the son of god , to apply it to our lady also , as being the daughter of god. is not therefore the church of rome rightly called thyatira , as alluding to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which both strabo and pliny would have to be the reason of the name of that city ? . i will onely adde one thing more . alsledius calls this intervall of time which we attribute to the church of thyatira regnum locustarum , because of the variety of the orders of monks that started up within this time . therefore when the church of rome swarmed so with monks and friers , that had abjured their virility by an irrevocable vow of caelibate , and went in sculking hoods and long coats like women , and so became petticoat-men at the best , was it not very congruous for the spirit of prophecy , by way of just reproach to this womanishness , so to characterize the church of rome at this time , by calling her thyatira , as if they had become rather the daughters of men then the sons of men by this so general effeminacy in more then those monkish garbs which i now mention ? besides that these petticoat-men , the dominicans especially , managed their opposition against the true church in a right feminine manner , not manly , as before , by meeting their enemy in the field , but sneakingly , by perfidiousness and treachery , to bring them into the inquisition , and then cruelly and insultingly in the upshot ; as it is easie to understand by reading the history of the holy inquisition , as they call it . therefore there being all these symptoms of feminity in the church of rome in this intervall , it is not unreasonable to conceive that this corruption of hers is perstringed by calling her the city of thyatira , alluding to thygatira , which signifies not a son of adam , but a daughter . . but were it not for the authority of strabo and pliny , there is another paronomastical allusion which i should prefer before this . wherefore , according to the richnesse of the prophetick style , i should also conceive thyatira to allude to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is , to break or bruise aromatick spices , which makes them give the sweeter savour : or else to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , altars for the burning of sweet odours . any of which methinks is lesse forced then either grotius his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or strabo's 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and as to the sense , the paronomasia is very expressive of the persecutions of the true members of christ within this intervall , and agrees exactly with history , wherein there is little talk of flaying with the sword , as is intimated in that expression in the foregoing intervall , where the martyr antipas is said to be slain ; ( which agrees admirably well with that great slaughter of the waldenses and the albigenses , which were martyred in the field by the pontifician forces , as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies properly to slay , suppose with the sword or any such weapon of war ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ) but the persecutions in the thyatirian intervall were usually burnings , or rackings , and wasting away their lives in miserable imprisonments . but that which was most frequent and most famous in this period was the burning of men alive with fire and faggot . this filled thyatira with so many 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . where though the cruelty of the persecutors was most execrable ; yet the faith , constancy and devout sincerity of our blessed protestant martyrs went up with the flames and globes of smoak , sweeter then any odours or incense , from the altar , into the presence of heaven , and were there accepted for his sake who gave himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to god for a sweet-smelling favour . . the frequency of these burnt-offerings in those times is noted by sanderus a papist ; infinitos lolhardos & sacramentarios in tota europa nuper ignibus traditos fuisse . but nothing can be so significative of the change of the scene of the persecution of the church in pergamus , where antipas was slain , to this in thyatira , whereby these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are alluded to , as that passage in the history of the albigenses , lib. . c. . which gave me occasion to terminate the pergamenian intervall in that year , viz. . here you see , saith he , the last attempt which we finde the albigenses to have made , and the last expedition of pilgrims levied against them . all the pursuit against them afterwards was by the monks the inquisitours , ( the dominicans he means , of whose father , dominicus , his mother when she went with child with him dream'd she was big of a dog that vomited fire out of his throat , ) which monks , saith he , now kindled their fires more then ever . and taking these poor people disarmed , and singling them out by retail , it was impossible for them any longer to subsist . and so this suffering church of christ passed out of that state where antipas was slain with the sword , to that of thyatira , where the holy martyrs of our reformed religion were burnt at the stake . and this , i think , will suffice to make us understand why the power and jurisdiction of the roman church in this intervall bears the title of thyatira . . these things saith the son of god , who hath his eys like to a flame of fire , and his feet are like fine brasse . the son of god is here christ , either personally , or mystically understood for his body the church . understanding it personally of christ , his flaming eyes denote his piercing and discerning foresight and providence ; it portends also his wrath and vengeance against the persecutors of his church with fire and faggot : but his feet like fine brasse , the peremptory constancy amd purity of his ways . but if we understand these feet like fine brasse of christ's mysticall body , we are to make a supply of the description out of the former chapter , ver . . and his feet like fine brass , as if they burned in a furnace ; whereby is insinuated the fiery trial of his church in this intervall of thyatira even in the grossest sense , so many of his servants standing at the stake with their leggs in the midst of flaming fire , kindled by their barbarous persecutors . that the son of god described in the foregoing chapter is also representative of his body mysticall , the description of his voice seems plainly to intimate . his voice being compared to the sound of many waters , that insinuates that this description respects also his body mysticall , which are a multitude . . i know thy works , and charity , and service , and faith . the true church then in thyatira being in oppression and affliction stood close to one another , and encouraged and comforted one another , and supported one another as well as they could , and endeavoured after an exemplarity of godlinesse and due proficiency in the power of religion , as being candidates for that deliverance which they by faith saw was not far off . and thy patience , and thy works , and the last to be more then the first . that is , i see the works of thy patience in suffering imprisonment , tortures and death , and particularly in giving up your selves , as an oblation of incense , to the fire and faggot in such numbers for the testimony of my truth . which being toward the latter end of this intervall , it is fitly said , and the last to be more then the first . this is according to what is found in history . . notwithstanding i have a few things against thee , because thou sufferest that woman jezebel , which calleth her self a prophetess , &c. viz. the papal hierarchy , that pretends to be infallible , and under colour of this brings in idolatry , which is spiritual fornication , and detains men in the communion of their idolatrous mass , which the spirit of god here parallels to the eating of things sacrificed unto idols . the prophetesse jezebel here therefore answers to the false prophet after mentioned in the revelations ; and this exprobration to the church in thyatira , of permitting jezebel thus to practice her deceits , to that voice of the angel , come out of her , my people , lest ye be partakers of her sins and of her plagues . it is a kind of solicitation of the princes and people in christendome , such as discerned the frauds and idolatries of the roman church , to make a defection from her , and suffer her trumperies no longer . for the time of that defection now drew near , and things were ripe for it , and it was in the power of them that disliked the condition of affairs to amend it : and therefore he saith , because thou sufferest that woman jezebel . for it is no fault in us to suffer those things which it is not in our power to help or redresse . . this jezebel is very expressive of the roman hierarchy , if we recurr to the story of the book of the kings : not onely for her painting of her self , ( which is notorious in the roman church , ( and especially in this intervall , ) and such as the homilies of our church in england take especial notice of , comparing all those rich and gorgeous adornings of the church of rome to the painting of the wrinkled face of an harlot , ) but also for her whoredomes and witchcraft , as it is noted kings . . what peace , so long as the whoredomes of thy mother jezebel and her witchcrafts are so many ? which is exactly parallel to the description of the whore of babylon , who is said to be the mother of fornications and abominations of the earth ; described also by that cup of sorcery in her hand , whereby she intoxicates the kings of the earth , and makes them drunk with the wine of her fornication . and whereas she is said to be drunk with the bloud of the saints , and with the bloud of the martyrs of jesus , jezebel also in her history is famous for murthering the prophets of god. . and those grosse wickednesses committed by ahab , who did very abominably in following idols , and in persecuting the servants of the true god , who is said to have sold himself to work wickednesse , are imputed to this subtil murtherous whore and witch , as the text plainly declares . but there was none like unto ahab , who did sell himself to work wickednesse in the sight of the lord , whom jezebel his wife stirred up . that is to say , the roman hierarchy ( according as both the vision of the whore of babylon and of the two-horned beast do plainly signifie , ) was the authour , contriver and instigatour unto all those murtherous and idolatrous practices that the secular magistrate has been guilty of , during their force and tyranny over the true servants of christ. the beast with two horns exercised all this power before the beast with ten horns , or rather made use of the secular power to effect all their devillish designs against the children of god ; as jezebel wrote letters in ahab's name , and sealed them with his seal . the church got the stamp of the imperial authority upon all the wicked dogmata of their religion and idolatrous practices , which they contrived for their own carnal advantages : and then if any naboth would not part with the inheritance of his fathers , the possession of an holy , righteous and rational conscience , nor profess nor act against the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , against those native truths and notions which god of his infinite mercy and faithfulnesse has implanted in the minds of all men that have not done violence to that innate light , the candle of the lord searching all the parts of the belly , he was through the murtherous contrivances of this strumpet jezebel falsely accused as a blasphemer of god and the king , as an enemy to both the catholick faith and secular magistrate , and so was sentenced to death . and death came by these wicked accusations in this intervall , as in the former intervall , wherein antipas was slain , by openly fighting in the field . thus apposite is the allusion to the history of jezebel , for the setting out the state of this intervall of the church under the tyranny of the church of rome . . nor is it all harsh , thus to interpret a vineyard to so spiritual a sense as to make it something within us , whenas both philo and other ancient interpreters have interpreted paradise to that sense , or the garden of eden . and others also cannot but acknowledge that that law of moses ; deut. . . thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds , has also a moral or mysticall meaning , and is a precept of simplicity or sincerity of heart . wherefore the vineyard of naboth may very well signifie the humane will and understanding that is sown onely or planted with such notions or notices of things as are from god , whether they be those innate idea's of the soul , or what is communicated farther by the spirit of god in the holy writings of inspired men , or are more immediately inspired into us by the abode of that spirit in us . all these plants are of our heavenly father 's own planting , and no other seed is to be sown among them repugnant thereunto . and this vineyard is the inheritance of all true christians , descending upon them from the apostles times to this very day . but the roman empire being perverted by the doctrines of the whore or two-horned beast , or by the eorruptions also of their own nature , had a mind to invade this ancient right as ahab had to get into his possession naboth's vineyard , under pretence that men giving up their will and understanding to the supreme power , government might be the more secure . and all that wondred after the beast gave up their vineyards into the hand of the secular power , and professed no otherwise then according to the faith of the empire , and so had their vineyards sown with divers seeds , nay indeed with what was repugnant to the apostolick plantation . their minds were filled with gross lies , foul-idolatries of all sorts , and murderous enmities against the true children of god. . but as for the vineyard of naboth , that is the vineyard of the true prophets or prophetesses , as the word naboth seems to intimate ; they were not given up , that is , those that were not christians for fashion-sake , and believed new invented lies and apostolick truth alike , but with a true and living faith acknowledged jesus to be the christ , these would rather lose their lives then quit their vineyards that yielded them that noble wine , that perpetual feast of a good conscience , and of peace and joy in the holy ghost . whence it was that this whore and sorceresse jezebel contrived their death , or persecution and oppression , as the two prophets are said to both mourn in sackcloath , and also to be slain . the vineyard therefore of naboth is that sense , and knowledge , and conscience and life of the spirit in the new birth , whereby a man discerning plainly & livingly betwixt the wayes of christ and of antichrist , does as necessarily loath the one , as adhere to the other . . for the true and firm belief in christ is from the new birth , as s. john also witnesses , every one that believeth that jesus is the christ is born of god. and therefore this spirit of life must needs have an antipathy against what is contrary to it self : and is also the spirit of prophecy in the most concerning sense : as john likewise intimates in his general epistle where upon his mentioning many false prophets gone out into the world , he presently adds , in this ye know the spirit of god , every spirit that confesseth that jesus is the christ come in the flesh , is of god. which agrees exactly with that in the apocalypse , where the angel says to john , i am thy fellow-servant , and of thy brethren that have the testimony of jesus , that is to say , of such as whose hearts do witnesse to them firmly and lively that jesus is the christ , and accordingly professe it ; which none can do unlesse he be born of god , and so have the spirit of god. which is implyed in the following words : for the testimony of jesus is the spirit of prophecy : that is to say , the being able in such sort to witnesse that jesus is the christ , is from the spirit and life of god in us which inspireth all holy truth . from whence the angel argues a kind of parity betwixt john and himself , and indeed all such as have the testimony of jesus according to the sense declared , and therefore would not be worshipped by them . . but this is something a digression , saving that it may illustrate that passage in the apocalypse , where the two witnesses are also called the two prophets , ( not so much from predicting things to come , as from witnessing to the truth from the spirit of life in the new birth , and being so firm in this faith as to suffer for it even to the death ) and may also facilitate the belief of this mystical sense of the story of naboths vineyard , or this vineyard of prophecy : it not implying any miraculous predictions , but the being inspired with a right sentiment of things from the spirit of life , and having the confidence to speak the truth as it is in jesus . this is all that need to be understood thereby . . to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication , and to eat things sacrificed unto idols . this woman of thyatira , ( whether the wife of the bishop of thyatira , or some other person of quality , for interpreters of the letter vary in that ) according to the literal sense , is described from her acts , as onely guilty of pretending her self to be a prophetesse , and that thereby she seduced the servants of christ to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to idols , which is a chief point of that which was called gnosticisme . and the truth of the supposed history here we do in no wise deny . but we also adde , that it is hugely improbable , that the spirit of prophecy would take notice so particularly of any one woman in so majestick a writing ( which alcazar also very seriously and vehemently urges ) if there were not some greater matter aimed at . wherefore i say , the spirit of god taking the advantage of the significancy of the miscarriages of this woman in thyatira ; which would set out part of the enormities of the church of rome here perstringed , added there to the name of jezebel , that the prophetick prefiguration might be the more complete , the church of rome in this intervall being lively adumbrated by this allusion to jezebel , joyned to what is reported of this woman in thyatira , viz. that she pretends to be a prophetess as the church of rome to be infallible , that she drew the servants of christ to idolatry and uncleannesse , as the church of rome does by engaging them in the masse and other superficial modes of serving god , that leave the minde sensual , and besides necessarily intangle them in idolatrous practices . thus much from the practice of this woman . . now in that she has this name given her of jezebel , assuredly the spirit of god points us to her story to make up this parallel betwixt this woman & rome , viz. as she is also a murderer of the prophets and servants of god , and a contriver of false accusations against them , as if by the keeping of the inheritance of their fathers , a pure conscience according to the ancient and apostolick faith and innate notions of truth that god has implanted in the minds of all men , they were blasphemers of god and the king , and obnoxious to both the civil and spiritual magistrate . and lastly , ( which is to be taken special notice of ) the church of rome in this intervall of the succession of the church of christ is called jezebel , because for all her paintings and fine meretricious pranking her self up , she was to be thrown out at the window , and her flesh to be devoured by dogs : which the just wrath of god and the zeal of jehu , ( the noble reformers ) stirred up by the spirit of god brought to passe at the end of this intervall of the church , as it is threatned also in the following parts of this epistle . . and i gave her space to repent her of her fornication , and she repented not . she had a fair time to consider of her grosse apostasies from the purity of my worship since the witnesse of the waldenses and albigenses against her , and yet she remains still obdurate and impenitent , and continues her old trade of whoring still . behold , i will cast her into a bed , and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation , except they repent of their deeds . unlesse she repent i will certainly cast her into a bed of sicknesse and languishment , for that bed of adultery wherein she has entertained the kings of the earth . her strength and glory shall be much diminished , and her paramours shall bewail the calamity i shall bring upon her : for there shall be of the kings that shall hate the whore , shall make her desolate in their dominions , and naked , and shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire . as it fell out in the late defection of whole nations from her . and i will kill her children with death . that is , either slay them with the sword of the spirit , and so make them dead as to her by their conversion to the truth , or else kill them with a natural death , such i mean as come against my true church , whether whole armies or seditious emissaries , as has often happened since the reformation . and all the churches shall know that i am he that searches the reins and hearts , and will give unto every one of you according to his works . that is , it will be notoriously taken notice of in all christendome how just my judgements are , and that i deal not with jezebel according to her fair pretenses and titles , who calls her self holy church , and pretends all her cruelties , and imposturous and idolatrous trumperies to be for my glory , whenas they have run into all this degeneracy for their worldly interest . but mine eyes which are a flaming fire searching into the hearts and reins , clearly see their abominable hypocrisie , and my feet like fine brasse , that never goe out of the way of purity and justice , will be sure to overtake them and doe due vengeance upon them . i will reward every one according to his works . . but unto you i say , and unto the rest in thyatira as many as have not this doctrine . to you pastours of my true church in thyatira , and the rest which are your charge , that hold not the idolatrous doctrine or faith of the thyatirian , that is , of the roman church . and which have not known the depths of satan , as they speak , that is , which have not approved the deep mysteries ( as they speak ) of reason of state , or of the roman religion , ( such as murdering innocent men for the interest of holy church ; infallibility , transubstantiation and the like ) but i who search the heart and reins do apertly declare to be the depths of satan , they tending to nothing but to luciferian pride , barbarous persecutions and murders , and grosse imposture and idolatry . i will put upon you no other burden , but that which ye have already , hold fast untill i come : i have already shew'd you my approbation of your wayes , ver . . and in that ye do not communicate with the idolatrous jezebel , keep to where you are , and stand out to the last : let no persecutions dismay you till i come in judgement against this jezebel , the same with the little horn in daniel , which in the expiring of the time , and times , and half a time , will certainly be judged . . and he that overcometh and keepeth my works unto the end , to him will i give power over the nations . that company of men , those people that keep my works to the end , to the last semi-time of the seven , they shall have power over the pagan christians , they shall get them under and be no more domineered over by them . and he shall rule them with a rod of iron : that is , with sufficient power and strictnesse to keep them in subjection . as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers . the stone shall smite the image on the feet and break them to pieces . that shall be at the long-run . even as i received of my father . i in you , and you in me ; you in me by vertue of the power of my spirit shall thus reign ; and i in you , according as it is written , i shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance , the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession ; thou shalt break them with a rod of iron , thou shalt dash them in pieces as a potters vessel . but this is something further off . . and i will give him the morning star . in the mean time , and which is next to succeed , i will give them the morning star ; that is , a considerable dawning towards that greater day of the illustrious reign of christ upon earth , in his saints by his spirit . the phosphorus to the glorious sun-rise of the happy millennium properly so called . this intervall will be the same with that of the vials which are accompanied with such a smoake ; as here the promise , which is to be performed in the next succession of the church , and there continued , is not expressed with that vigour as elsewhere , where christ in reference to his kingdome is said to be the bright morning star , here onely the morning star without the ornament of that epithet : the kingdome of christ therefore under the first thunder may be said to be the morning star , but under the second , the bright morning star . and it is observable , that whereas in that other place he is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in this he is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which may also have the signification of more early then was expected , which exquisitely answers to the evert , it falling out toward the fore-part of the last semi-time . but these things are onely by the by . he that hath an ear to hear , let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches . there is nothing new remarkable in this epiphonema , but the placing of it here after the whole epistle , which is a sign that all the epistle is a parable , and is not onely meant of the church in thyatira in the literal sense ( but that the condition and affairs of some other church , the truely catholick and apostolick church in the intervall defined , are here prefigured and described prophetically . ) and that therefore the promises are to be performed on this stage of the earth , as of their own nature they appear to be such that have a political sense . which therefore therewithall assures us , that such a tenour of interpretation belongs to the three following epistles , because the epiphonema is the close of every one of them . and therefore we shall steer the course of our interpretation accordingly . chap. vii . the interpretation of the epistle to the church in sardis . . and unto the angel in the church of sardis write . that sardis was a city in asia is manifest ch. . and considered no otherwise then so , does not at all illustrate the condition of this fifth succession of the state of the church . but acknowledging here again a paronomastical allusion to sarda the precious stone , as grotius does : or , taking notice with pliny , that that stone is so called for its first being found about sardis , it may prove very significative of the condition of reformed christendome within that intervall , beginning from the rising of the witnesses , and ending in the last viall , in part of it i mean. after which the intervall of phyladelphia comes in , and takes up also the second and third thunder . some special qualities therefore of the church of sardis are to be read in this stone sarda , and some to her praise , others to her diminution . the virtue of this stone is , that carried about one it makes a man chearfull and couragious , and drives away witchcraft and enchantment , and expells poison rightly administred , which adumbrate some peculiar privileges in this sardian church . their chearfull security in justification by faith in christ's bloud , and their being rid of the poisonous idolatrous doctrines , and bewitching enchantments of the cup of the whore. here 's nothing of jezebel in this church , nor any mention of the eating of things offered to idols , nor in the two following epistles , which is no small ratification of the truth of these successions . both they and she are well and sound touching these points . . but this stone sarda , which is also called carnalina , and in the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , odem , as representing humane flesh and bloud so lively , seems also to insinuate something to the derogation of the sardian church , as if they were flesh , and not spirit ; which is the special dispensation of the church of philadelphia . and whereas christ's conquest over edom is , by letting out or squeezing out the corrupt bloud of old adam , this odem or carnalina is said to be of that virtue as to stanch bloud and stop it from running out , and therefore seems to be significative of whatever doctrines in the sardian church that hinder the due and requisite mortification of the old man , as loth to weaken him too much , and let too much of his bloud and life run out . . the meaning therefore is , that though the sardian church be well rid of the foul idolatries and grosse trumperies of the papal church , yet her state as yet is but carnal most-what . it is not the dispensation of the spirit of life , but the main stir is about external opinion & ceremony : they seem to know christ onely according to the flesh , not according to the power of his spirit , whereby he is able to subdue all things under him . whereas christ after he had said that his flesh was meat indeed , and his bloud was drink indeed , clearly explains himself , in declaring expresly , that the flesh profiteth nothing ; the words that i speak unto you , they are spirit , and they are life ; yet a great part of this sardian church , i mean the lutherans , rack their own wits , and disturb the rest of reformed christendome , to maintain that odd paradox of consubstantiation , that so men may eat and drink that grosse flesh and bloud of christ that was crucify'd upon the crosse in the celebration of their eucharists . what can be more carnaline-like then this ? besides that there are over-many that do as grosly and carnally erre touching the nature of the resurrection-body , they phansying it as terrestrially modify'd ( though it be called a celestial or spiritual body in the scriptures , ) as that body is that we put into the grave , or is capable of the imbraces of the nuptial bed. to say nothing of other such like grosse carnal conceits that this sardian church has not yet expunged out of her mind . but as mischievous a mark as any of her carnality is her dissension and schismaticalnesse even to mutuall persecution , as also the unnatural and unchristian wars of one part of reformed christendome against the other . these things rankly savour of the flesh , and are infinitely contrary to the due dispensation of the spirit ; which when it shall appear will bring in the church of philadelphia , the church of unfeigned love and charity , wherein , according to the prediction of the prophets , there shall not be the noise of this unchristian war any more . these touches may suffice to shew why the spirit of god has denoted this succession of his church by the title of the church in sardis . . these things saith he that hath the seven spirits of god. the number seven signifies universality sometimes ; whence the pythagoreans call it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the sense therefore is , that hath in readinesse to bestow all the spiritual or divine graces to make the man of god perfect to every good word and work . and the seven stars . that is to say , that holds the seven stars in his right hand : so it is in the description before his speech to the ephesine church , which is repeated here for encouragement ; christ hereby declaring his power , and promising his assistence to the renewing of christendome through the reformation , as well as he did to the forming of it at first , and rooting out paganism in the first beginning of the church , which is the ephesine intervall . i know thy works , that thou hast a name that thou livest , and art dead . i discern plainly thy state and condition . thou hast indeed a semblance of life , because thou hast a great deal of heat and zeal , and dost with an externall fervour doe many performances that may raise a fame of thee of being more then ordinarily religious . and many hot disputes there may be for this or that ceremony , for this or that opinion , and against them , much and very vehement discourse about faith and justification , and the like . which heat and activity bears a semblance of life in thee . but assure thy self , unlesse thou hast that faith that worketh by love , all this stir is but the noise of tinkling brasse or of sounding cymbals . and being thus alive , thou art notwithstanding in my sight little better then dead . and although thou dost thus imitate warm flesh and bloud , yet thou art but a cold sardius stone to my touch and discernment . as she that liveth wantonly is dead while she liveth , though she thinks she is then most of all alive : so it is with him that , devoid of christian love and charity , is enlivened with an hot , bitter , ignorant and preposterous zeal : this is not the life of god , but of mere nature and carnality . . be watchfull , and strengthen the things that remain that are ready to die . take heed that want of love and life hazard not faith too , and remissnesse in manners bring not in atheism and infidelity over all . for i have not found thy works perfect before me . those things that have life in them goe on to perfection . wherefore if they stop before , and make no progresse , it is a sign there is some deadly distemper at the very heart or root , and such a plant must wither and die . thy works are neither perfect , nor dost thou easily admit of such doctrines as lead most effectually to perfection . remember therefore how thou hast received and heard , and hold fast , and repent . that is to say , you that are my true apostolick church , remember what ye have received from me my self , or my apostles ; stand fast to the infallible word , which will impartially instruct and excite you to all the due measures of godlinesse . and believe not the rotten and corrupt glosses ofdeceitful men , that would sew pillows under mens arm-holes , and frame opinions and precepts to favour the lusts of the flesh . to dote upon men is a piece of carnality ; but to dote on them for their carnal opinions and fleshfavouring documents , is sardian or carnaline of a double dye . repent therefore , for the kingdome of god is at hand ; and he that has the seven spirits of god stands ready to assist and succour with his divine graces all that sincerely endeavour after righteousnesse . so that the fault lies at your own doors . if therefore thou shalt not watch , i will come on thee as a thief , and thou shalt not know what hour i come upon thee . if thou wilt not return to true sobriety and sincerity of manners , i shall bring some signal mischief upon thee before thou beest aware ; i shall suddenly come in judgment against thee when thou least dreamest thereof . god of his infinite mercy avert the ill omen , and change our hearts , that we may amend our lives , and he may be reconciled to us . . thou hast a few names even in sardis , which have not defiled their garments . notwithstanding the dispensation of the sardian church be so generally carnal , in the very hew of that carnaline-stone that looks so like mere flesh and bloud , yet there are some few that have not defiled their garments with that colour , but are as it were the primitiae of the dispensation of the spirit , whose inward man is renewed day by day into the image of my self , and are made partakers of the divine nature , and are the children of light. and they shall walk with me in white . these shall not onely enjoy glorious converses with me , and i communicate my spiritual graces abundantly to them , but they shall be very successfull and prosperous in their affairs . for to be cloathed in white signifies so in the onirocriticks , accordingly as you may see in achmetes . for they are worthy . for i doe to every one according to his work . . he that overcometh , the same shall be clothed in white raiment . he that overcometh all the lusts of this terrestrial body , to him will i communicate the celestial or divine . this is a more theologicall sense . but the political is most proper , the epiphonema concluding the whole epistle . wherefore to be clothed in white raiment , it being here the promise to him that overcomes , signifies ( and that rather then in the fore-going verse ) successe and prosperity in external affairs , and exemption from grief and affliction , as the onirocriticks do expresly interpret it . see achmetes . and i will not blot his name out of the book of life . the more proper and politicall sense may be , that when the church by overcoming has emerged into the philadelphian condition , it shall never change , at least as to the externall frame , but keep up to the end ; and god will avowedly acknowledge it to be his even to the last , even then when it is passed into the laodicean state , and the state of persecution shall never overwhelm it any more . so the book of life may signifie here as the crown of life before in the epistle to the church of smyrna . but i will confess his name before my father and before his angels . that is to say , i will acknowledge his nature to have become in a manner divine and angelical , and therefore to be a meet associate for their companies in my heavenly kingdome for ever . this may be a moral or theologicall sense . but the politicall is chiefly aimed at , as is intimated by the placing of the epiphonema last of all . the confessing therefore of the names of these few in sardis that are right as they should be , and as many as make up to the measure of their sanctity , ( which therefore are the seed of the philadelphian church , ) christ his confessing of their names before his father and before his holy angels , is the mentioning of their names as of a people more peculiarly his , and extraordinarily dear unto him ; that by thus owning them in such an endearing manner before god and his holy angels , they may be in a more special manner recommended to the favour and protection of god , and to the faithfull and watchfull ministry of his holy angels : which will be the efficient causes of their being cloathed in white , and of their name never being blotted out of the book of life ; that is to say , of the permanency of their outward prosperity and security from misery and oppression ; that thus innocency and outward felicity may goe hand in hand in the blessed millennium , which is in a manner the same with the philadelphian intervall of the church . these few names in sardis will amount to this at last . for salvation is to spring out of sardis , not out of babylon . nor is it any wonder that the ministry of the holy angels will be so extraordinarily exercised about a church which will then have become so angelicall , as is more fully noted in the divine dialogues . . these are the rousing motives which christ useth to excite the carnal church of sardis to more hearty endeavours after the dispensation of the spirit , that they may bring on the beginning of those most happy times ; the conduct of which affair is represented by that illustrious heros on his white horse , chap. . where his armies follow him on white horses clothed in fine linnen , white and clean . which appertains to the last end of the intervall of this church of sardis , a great part of whom by this time it 's likely may have turned their carnaline-colour into pure white , and be ready to march with him there to that spiritual warfare , as some are said here to walk with him in white , and that with marvellous success and prosperity , as their white cloathing does intimate . he that hath an ear to hear , let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches . reformed christendome especially , she is so much concerned therein . for she , as i said at first , is this sardian church ; the beginning of whose intervall , being adorned with more true holinesse and sincerity of zeal , the better deserved the title of the rising of the witnesses : and though they be here much reproved for their faults , yet they are acknowledged to be one of the seven churches in asia , chap. . . that is to say , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in fundamento , and are the true and apostolical church still , and justly witnesse against the idolatries and grosse antichristian practices of the church of rome , such , i mean , as with them have become a law , and thereby are properly antichristian . this i thought fit to adde , to stop the preposterous pronenesse of some toward the roman church from the consideration that all things are not so perfect in the reformed churches as might be desired . for though they be not so well as they should be , yet they must needs appear to any but an humorist exceeding much better then in the church of rome . and thus much of the sardian church . chap. viii . an interpretation of the epistle to the church in philadelphia . . and to the angel of the church in philadelphia write . the meaning of philadelphia is plain , and is no riddle . the word signifies brotherly love : which rightly understood is the fulfilling of the law. so that i understand by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the same that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , universal love , ( for we are all brothers in adam ; ) but especially the love of those of the houshold of faith ; that is to say , of christian believers . in the sardian church , the greatest noise and stir there is about faith , but her works were not found perfect before god. but the inscription of this church is love , which is the fulfilling of the law , as i hinted before . and his banner over me was love. this is the ensign of the church of philadelphia , who elsewhere is said to be beautifull and terrible as an army with banners ; who is she that looketh forth as the morning , fair as the moon , clear as the sun , and terrible as an army with banners ? why ? who can it be but this church of philadelphia , as famous for feats of arms as for love , as we shall see in the process ? for the intervall of this church begins in the last vial , and reaches to the fourth thunder . these things saith he that is holy. and speaks to that church that loves to hear those instructions : be ye holy , for i am holy ; and , be ye perfect , as your father which is in heaven is perfect . he that is true . he that will make good all his promises and glorious predictions touching his church in this state thereof which is figured out by the church of philadelphia , and writes to those that believe it , and have a firm faith in the power and spirit of christ and of god. he that hath the key of david , he that openeth and no man shutteth , and shutteth and no man openeth . what eliakim was to hezekias , who was of the stock of david , the same is christ to god the father , whom s. john calls love , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he is chief minister of state under god , and carries all as he pleases by the authority committed to him ; of which a key is the symbol . ( see grotius upon the place . ) there is nothing so hard and impervious but he can make way through it , and open a door to successe , and again shut it against his enemies . . i know thy works . and that so as to approve of them , because they are the fruits of the divine love , then which there is nothing to me more precious . thou actest not out of bitter zeal and strife , or vain ostentation , or any secular respect , but merely out of love to me and my righteousnesse , and out of love to mankinde , whose both present and future happinesse thou dost sincerely endeavour to promote . behold , i have set before thee an open door , and no man can shut it . behold ; i have brought things about so by my providence , and will so effectually second what i have begun by my special assistence , that , maugre all the machinations of men and devils , thou shalt finde opportunities of most gloriously and successfully carrying on the interest of my kingdome . this is performed in the last vial , in that great battel of god almighty , when also the beast and the false prophet are said to be taken . see the divine dialogues . for thou hast a little strength . grotius himself interprets it , a little army : and so indeed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will signifie , & appositely to the present scope , and answerably to the battel i named before . the sense is ; because , though ye be but a few in comparison of the rest of my church and kingdome , ( for the sardian church is his kingdome and church too , out of which the philadelphian church is emerging ) and especially in respect of the infidel and antichristian party , those under the dragon and the beast and the false prophet , yet ye have kept my word , and not denied my name , that is , have both kept to what is holy and true in your hearts , and professed it in your words and works : therefore i will be with you in this glorious manner , and make you so successfull in the promoting of the interest of my kingdome . of this church therefore of philadelphia are those armies seen in heaven , apoc . . following christ upon white horses clothed in fine linnen , white and clean ; which implies both the justnesse of their cause , and the certainty of their successe . as also those boanergesses in the last vial , ( synchronal to that other vision ) that thunder and lighten over the city divided into three parts , whereby the cities of the nations fell , and babylon and her daughters were utterly overthrown . . behold , i will make them of the synagogue of satan ( which say they are jews , but do lie . ) jews , as i noted before , according to the style of the apocalypse , are christians ; and the jews which professe themselves such , and are not , but do lie , are pseudo-christians , or the antichristian party ; but are judged here to be of the synagogue of satan , because of their abominable lies and bloudy murders . for the devil was a murderer from the beginning ; and he is also in the same place by our saviour termed a liar . besides the luciferian pride of that church , like satans , the prince of the devils . behold , i will make them come and worship before thy feet . even those that before kissed the feet of the pope , that lofty prelate . this answers very patly to that passage in the fore-named vision ; where the beast and false prophet are taken , and put alive into a lake of fire : that is to say , the bestian and pseudoprophetical power , as such , is burnt and destroyed and abolished , and the philadelphian power then appears above all , or rather the lord alone will be exalted in that day ; for to this time especially belongs that saying , not by might , nor by power , but by my spirit , saith the lord of hosts . for , indeed , the struggling of the sardian church hitherto against the city that is called sodom and aegypt , though it has been in its kind laudable , yet it has been in a manner edom against edom , a part something more refined against that which is more impure , i mean as to life and godlinesse ; and the weapons of their warfare have not been so spiritual as they ought , they have not rid upon white horses , nor have been clothed in fine linnen , white and clean ; they have not endeavoured to be that church which is without spot & wrinkle , or any such thing , but the sardian tincture has too much distained them . but as it is true in the natural sense , that flesh and bloud cannot inherit the kingdome of god ; so it is also in the political , that those glorious times of the kingdome of god cannot appear till the church emerge out of the sardian or carnaline state into the philadelphian . against which church christ exhibits no complaint at all , but loves her , and likes her entirely , even as he is cordially loved of her . and without question the state of that church is so lovely , that she will charm even her enemies to a liking of her , and unto a submission to her , all things being so irreprehensible in her . but commonly wicked men are very domineering and ferocient against good men that have any blot or infirmity on them , unless they be of their own faction . and therefore this philadelphian church , if any , must be the church that can mollifie the hearts of the papists , and bring over as many as god pleaseth to the belief of the truth . but for the cities of the nations , their conquests will be unspeakable amongst them . for these are those powerfull thunderers , by whose thundering and lightening the cities of the nations are to fall , as i intimated before . and to know that i have loved thee . the papists themselves shall discern , by the stupendious successe of the philadelphian church , what a value christ puts upon her , and how far he prefers her integrity , simplicity , brotherly-kindnesse , humility , meeknesse and purity of worship , before the roman frauds and impostures , their barbarous persecutions and cruelties , their luciferian pride , and superstitious and idolatrous practices . . because thou hast kept the word of my patience ; that is , because thou art both meek-hearted , and hast been faithful and not flitting in the time of trial , but endurest all things for my names sake ; i will keep thee from the hour of temptation that shall come upon all the world . namely , at what time all the world will be in an hurly-burly , and cast into manifold streights and calamities . which is in the last vial , when the three unclean spirits goe forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world , to gather them to the battel of that great day of god almighty ; and when there shall be so great an earthquake as has not been since men were upon earth , so mighty an earthquake and so great . in this mighty tempest and hurry of things will i preserve thee from danger , and thou shalt carry it safe through all . thou shalt escape better then any party of men , by reason of thy conspicuous innocency , sincerity , and exemplarity of life , and unexceptionable apostolicalnesse of doctrine , and singular love to me and all mankind . because thou art milde and courteous and benign and beneficent to all ; because thou art a lover of unity , un-self-interessed , a foe to no body , and onely an enemy to the vices and miseries of men : this , with my singular favour to thee , shall protect thee in that great confusion and high fermentation of mens spirits under the last vial. who is he that will harm you , if you be followers of that which is good ? . behold , i come quickly . thou art already in that period of time wherein this great judgement will come upon the earth , namely , under the first thunder . or rather , because the philadelphian church is not supposed to be in distinct being or appearance till the last vial , the last vial must be this period . and then this coming in respect of that time will be quickly indeed . hold thou fast what thou hast , that no man take thy crown . thou art a church after my own heart , o philadelphia , and i blame thee for nothing , thou walkest uprightly with me and art perfect : wherefore hold that ground which thou hast got in truth and integrity , that thou mayst not be deprived of that crown i intend thee ; for in thee will i accomplish all the glorious promises touching my kingdome upon earth . . him that overcometh will i make a pillar in the temple of my god , and he shall goe no more out . ' o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he that overcomes , that is , in the apocalyptick style , all , or the whole company that overcomes , which is here meant of the philadelphians . they shall be as a pillar in the temple of god ; that is , they shall be a steddy and standing holy people , a true holy catholick church that shall never fail , but shall last till i come in the clouds to judgment in the last day . all other forms and denominations shall fail , but this shall keep the sovereignty to the last . and i will write upon him the name of my god. this is in pursuance of the former metaphor of a pillar , with a farther allusion to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the ancients . these philadelphians shall have the name of god written upon them ; that is , their conversation and manners will be so holy and divine , that it will be as conspicuous to all , as if it were writ upon their foreheads that they are the holy church and chosen people of god. or more briefly and in a more political sense ; the name of my god may allude to jehovah shammah , intimating , that these philadelphians shall be that church which is represented by the city jerusalem described by ezekiel , which is called jehovah shammah . of which the following words seem to be a more expresse signification . and the name of the city of my god , which is , new jerusalem , which cometh down out of heaven from my god. the name of the city , the new jerusalem , as well as jehovah shammah , will be written upon them , the city where god dwelleth and ruleth by his spirit ; that is to say , they will be that city of jerusalem formally and actually under the second thunder . for to be called , and to be , are all one in the hebrew idiom . and his name is called the word of god , apo. . . is as much as , he is the word of god. wherefore this philadelphia under the second thunder passes into the same with the new jerusalem ; but the title of philadelphia begins sooner , and reaches farther to the fourth thunder . this inscription of the philadelphians , that they are called the new jerusalem , &c. in the very words in which it is described afterwards apoc. . is a notable indication that by the church of philadelphia is meant that succession of the church that is under the second and third thunder , but was emerging in the last vial. for it is the new jerusalem which cometh out of heaven from god. which therefore having this manifest political sense , would be very hardly attributed to that city of philadelphia in asia literally understood , but with an eye to this successive intervall of the church which we here speak of . and the promise was not performed to the literal church of philadelphia , which has perished ; that was no such lasting pillar . and therefore there is a necessity of a farther sense , mysticall or propheticall . . and i will write upon him my new name . it is expresly said , apoc. . . that christ has a name written upon his vesture and upon his thigh , king of kings , and lord of lords . this name grotius would have understood here . and there is no small reason for it , that name being so particularly and pompously set out for a special name of his . and though he has ever had a right unto it ; yet because the getting into possession of this right will be new and fresh in this philadelphian intervall after the battel of the heros on the white horse , it is rightly termed a new name , and very fittingly writ upon these philadelphians , because they are so instrumental in his atchievements . these are the boanergesses , ( thundering over the great city divided into three parts ) and also those horsemen on white horses , as i intimated before . christ therefore through these becomes king of kings and lord of lords ; or rather , he has made them the greatest kingdome upon earth . the mountain of the lord's house is exalted upon the top of the mountains , and all nations flow unto it ; as it is to come to passe under the third thunder . through which third and second thunder , and seventh vial , is drawn the intervall of the succession of the church of philadelphia , as i have hinted above . he that hath an ear to hear , let him hear , &c. we need not here urge the intimation of this political sense of things from the putting of the epiphonema last , the very nature of the expressions calling for it , though we had no such guide . but we may rather argue , that the things themselves being of so manifest political sense , not moral or spiritual , that it confirms our rule touching the position of this epiphonema . but this by the bye . we proceed to the church of laodicea . chap. ix . the interpretation of the epistle to the church of laodicea . . and to the angel of the church of the laodiceans write . the intervall of the succession of the church of laodicea is the fourth and fifth thunders , that is , from the loosing of satan to the appearing of christ coming to judgement under the sixth thunder . in this intervall the scene of philadelphia is past , and laodicea takes place : which is acknowledged a true church as to worship and doctrine , but is represented as a lazy , lethargical church ; in which that former philadelphian zeal is extinguished as to the generality of the church , though it 's likely this degeneracy comes on by degrees in this intervall . . thus therefore it is foreseen in the series of divine providence , that after that glorious estate of the church which is synchronal to the second and third thunder ( during which space and a little before the scene of philadelphia adorned the stage ) had well purged the christian world from all foolish opinions and superstitions , and of that accursed custome of persecuting one another for them , and that the truth of the gospel had clearly shined in the simplicity thereof , and so convictively against all the follies and impostures of the former ages , that the church had no great hazard of being again cheated with them ; and that they had seen all prophecies in a manner fulfilled before their eyes , so that there could be no doubt to them , but that the philadelphian church was the true church , nor be in any capacity of any change in faith or worship : after this , i say , as all things are in some sort or other variable under the sun , so it seems this philadelphian church was at last to degenerate into this laodicean state ; and that which was before the reign of the spirit and the living righteousnesse of god , would now become the church of laodicea ; which signifies a more popular or external politicall righteousnesse , or the righteousness of the people . an external profession and performance of that mode that was used by the philadelphians in a living way , and with the power of the spirit , the same will this church of laodicea hold on spiritlesly and lazily , with little life or zeal , and yet applaud themselves by reason of the abundance of knowledge she has , because of the completion of the prophecies , and by reason of the purity of the external worship she still retains , as if all was still well with her , and as if she wanted nothing . . this in brief is the condition of this church , as it is significantly intimated in the very name . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies as much as the righteousnesse of the people . and the people are any multitude of mankind gathered into a body politick ; as is manifest in that notation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as if it were from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and then again in homer , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — and therefore the people , being a body politick , are ruled by such and such laws , which if they observe , it is not regarded quo animo , or out of what principle , they observe them . the new nature , regeneration and the spirit , are quite out of this rode . and a national or oecumenical religion , doctrine or worship , as they are ab extrà , are but as a political law , and the righteousnesse therein but a laodicean righteousnesse , as has been abundantly inculcated already . but besides this meaning of the name laodicea , which i doubt not but is particularly intended , there may , according to the multifarious allusivenesse of the propheticall style , another notable meaning be also intimated , and that very appropriate to this church . for the ratio nominis in laodicea may be likewise 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because in the intervall of this church god will in that most notorious and terrible manner come to judge the people . because the closure of this church brings in the last judgement properly so called , therefore this last intervall of the church is called laodicea , the judging of the people , all the nations of the world , at the last day . and there is nothing more frequent in the scripture , then the giving of names from some notable externall accident , that respects the thing or person so named . . these things saith the amen , the faithfull and true witnesse . paul , in his second epistle to the corinthians , says , that all the promises of god in christ are yea and amen ; that is to say , they are so sure and certain , that no man need doubt but they will be performed . wherefore this attribute of christ is seasonably brought in , as respecting both the completion of the promises already performed , in bringing his church to that admirable glorious condition in the succession of philadelphia , as also the performance of that material promise at the end of this epistle , touching eternal life or a blessed immortality in christ's heavenly kingdome ; which these laodiceans , or degenerated philadelphians , like our modern familists , that pretend to the philadelphian dispensation , may some of them , it 's likely , be prone to distrust . but christ is here also called the faithfull and true witnesse , because he does so impartially witnesse concerning the truth of the condition of the laodiceans , and so faithfully discover to them the danger thereof . and the declaration seeming so paradoxicall to them , it was the more requisite to inculcate into them his own truth and faithfulnesse , that he might gain belief of them against their own false sense and opinion of themselves . the beginning of the creation of god. this hath a more high meaning , like that in the beginning of s. john's gospel , and respects the divinity of christ , by whom all things were made , and in whom all things are . but i believe also that is more particularly insinuated here which is expresly declared of him ( according to the seventy ) by the prophet esay ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the beginner of that world or age under the messias ; wherein he having , as i intimated before , carried on all things so completely according to promise and prediction , this seems an advantageous repetition of what was intimated before in that attribute of amen : as if he should say , i was the beginner of this marvellous scene of things from the time of my living on this earth in the flesh to this very day , and you see how steddily all things have been carried on , according to predictions and prophecies : wherefore believe me in the rest ( whether comminations or promises ) which i shall now declare unto you . this seems to be the genuine sense of this preface to the epistle . . i know thy works , that thou art neither cold nor hot . i see thee to be in a tepid , formal , remisse dispensation : thou holdest still the outside of the philadelphian church for doctrine and worship : but thou art destitute of that spirit of life in the new birth which was the proper character of thy deceased sister of philadelphia . i would thou wert cold or hot . though it be not better in it self , yet it were better for thee thou wert not so externally good as thou art , that thou mightest the sooner be convinced of thine own wants , and get into the state of repentance , of mortification , and finally of regeneration , that so thou mightest partake of my spirit . but now thou art but an externall image of warm flesh out of which life and soul did lately depart , even then when thy sister philadelphia departed out of this world . thou art the external frame of that philadelphia , but the spirit has left thee . . so then , because thou art luke-warm , and neither cold nor hot , i will spew thee out of my mouth . that is , i will declare in a torrent of words against thee , how nauseous and distastfull thou art to me , and how my stomack rises against thee . which is done in the following verse , where he pours out those just reproaches against her , that she is wretched , and miserable , and poor , and blind , and naked . or , it may be , there may be a more profound , and yet not less solid , meaning in this commination , and that it may be predictive of her utter extermination ; that the continuance of the church of christ upon earth shall cease in her . for the immenseness of christ's divinity incompassing all things that are , he can vomit nothing out from him but it must therewith be cast into non-entity . and the laodicean church is the last scene of providence , and this church , and indeed the whole scene of affairs on this earth for her sake , is shortly to have an end . for in the next thunder to this laodicean intervall christ comes to judgement , and presently after is the conflagration . and satan is to be let loose but a little time ; so that the time of the laodicean church cannot be long . wherefore the commination , i will spew thee out of my mouth , may well be a prediction of the utter extermination of the church out of being , that is , as to the state of a church upon earth . for as before the coming of the floud god is said to repent him that he had made man upon the earth , and that it grieved him at his heart : so christ here expresseth how nauseous and stomack-sick he is against his church under this intervall and title of laodicea , how his choler and indignation rises against her luke-warmnesse ; and that therefore he will vomit her out in a floud of fire , and overwhelm her in a deluge of hot scalding sulphureous flames : which will come to passe at the conflagration . the state of the church now in its old age naturally growing worse , christ will think fit to put an end to the scene of things , and carry his to his celestial kingdome . . because thou sayest , i am rich , and increased with goods , and have need of nothing . and this is one reason of the spiritlesnesse and inactivity of the laodicean church , that she thinks she has all things desirable already , peace , plenty , power and dominion , security from enemies , profession of the truth , purity in externall worship , rid of superstition and idolatry , abundance of knowledge as well natural as theological , the understanding of all prophecies , by reason of their clear completion , and the faithfull and judicious interpretations of her predecessours ; no oppression , no persecution for conscience sake ; every man lives at quiet , and injoys himself under his own vine & under his own fig-tree : what want we therefore ? are we not still the true philadelphian church , and the new jerusalem descended from heaven , in all the riches and glories thereof ? one would think so indeed , according to the judgement of any carnal eye . but let us hear what the amen says , the true and faithfull witnesse . and knowest not that thou art wretched , and miserable , and poor , and blind , and naked . christ saith to the church in smyrna , i know thy works , and tribulation , and poverty ; but thou art rich . the primitive church , while the spirit of life was in them , though in the midst of the want of all externall comforts , and under most dreadfull persecutions , in the judgement of christ are accounted rich : but the laodiceans , in the affluence of all external blessings , because they want that spirit of life , are deemed poor , and miserable , and naked , as if they had not a rag to hang on their backs ; nay , blind also , for all their abundance of knowledge , because they are devoid of the knowledge and experience of the mysteries of the spirit of life in the new birth , and the renovation of the soul into inward living righteousnesse , but take up with the externall laodicean state or condition . . i counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire , that thou may est be rich . i advise thee , sincerely to endeavour ( for that is the price thou must pay for this gold ) after the recovery of thy self into the state of the new jerusalem descended from heaven ; which city was of pure gold , so purify'd in the fire , that it was as clear as transparent glasse . this is the new creature in thee , the transformation of thy nature into the image of the heavenly adam . this is solid and durable riches indeed , and such as will go along with thee into the highest heavens , when this earth and the metalls therein shall melt with fire . labour therefore after such a solid treasure as will abide those fatal flames , and will not perish with thee in the general conflagration . and the symbol of this treasure is this purify'd gold. and white rayment , that thou mayst be cloathed , and that the shame of thy nakednesse do not appear . groan then earnestly in this , o thou spiritlesse laodicea , desiring to be cloathed upon with that spiritual house which is from heaven ; that , being so cloathed , thou mayst not be found naked . for while thou art in this earthly tabernacle , thou oughtest to account it a burthen , and not to set up thy staff in the enjoyments of this life , because all things are peacefull and prosperous with thee . not that i would advise thee to shorten thy days here ; but that , being thus cloathed by this spiritual vestment , mortality might be swallowed up of life . and it is the spirit of life and the divine love that worketh in thee this one great thing that thou so greatly wantest , and yet art insensible thereof . and anoint thine eyes with eye-salve , that thou mayst see . that is , cleanse thy self with such a due measure of mortification , and purification of the inward man from all filthinesse of flesh and spirit , that thou mayst attain to the divinely-moral prudence which will enable thee to have a right judgement and discerning in all things . this therefore is the collyrion which i would advise thee to anoint thine eye-sight with , even the purgation of thy self from all the animal corruptions , that thou mayst perfect the inward righteousnesse in my fear : for the outward alone carries none to heaven . the ointment i prescribe will indeed smart ; but without it thou wilt still continue blind , and never finde the way to everlasting salvation . . as many as i love , i rebuke . i deal plainly , truly and faithfully with thee ; and not out of any ill will is it that i thus rebuke thee : but it is ex amore benevolentiae , though not ex amore complacentiae . for , as thou art , thou art but a nauseous and irksome spectacle to me . and therefore i thus rebuke thee and instruct thee , that thou mayst amend . and chasten , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . which signifies to chastise and scourge , as well as to instruct . which therefore may seem to be the commination of some external calamity and affliction that christ would bring upon the laodiceans , if they did not repent them of their remissness ; and in such a way as themselves may haply be the causes of , through their remissnesse and luke-warmnesse . for that former philadelphian zeal and activity ceasing , which that church exercised in the behalf of the interest of the kingdome of god , their enemies may more then ordinarily encrease upon them , especially the devil being let loose , and being very active to deceive the nations ; whom they should counter-plot , by being as active to convert them to the truth . and this may be the time wherein the prediction of gog and magog is to be fulfilled , who are said to be gathered together to battel , and to encompasse the camp of the saints and the beloved city , which in this state is termed the church of laodicea ; but in that vision , the camp of the saints , because there were not onely many saints amongst them of the old philadelphian strain , but that they were still in their externall frame an holy people and an holy city , not prophaned by the gentiles , that is to say , not polluted by heathenish superstition , and idolatry , and imposture , and cruelty ; nor brought under their power and dominion that were . which yet was once the condition of the holy city for a time and times and half a time , or forty two months , apoc . . . . and it is still called the beloved city also for the same reason : but not the new jerusalem descended from heaven , because so generally that new and heavenly nature was lost amongst them . but this church of laodicea is still beloved of christ , partly for her own sake , and partly for her deceased sister's sake , the lovely philadelphia , whom she so much resembles in all her externall features , that dearest spouse of christ. and therefore the title of the beloved city agrees very well with this passage in the present text , whom i love , i rebuke , yea and scourge too . for these streights that the laodiceans are to be cast into by the siege of gog and magog seems the most probable way to rowze them out of their lukewarmnesse and lazy formality . but that things may not run the hazard of growing worse and worse , nor there be an infinite repetition of the vicissitude of scenes on the stage of this earth , providence will knock off at such a time as that the wicked and prophane rabble of the world shall not again get the dominion over his true church , but he will put a period to the contest by a deluge of fire from heaven , as it is intimated in that vision . but this is more then falls to the share of this present verse . be zealous therefore , and repent . that is , amend thy dead formality and lukewarmnesse , by attaining to the spirit of life through mortification and regeneration , that so thou mayst recover the old philadelphian zeal and love : for this is the onely thing thou wantest . . behold , i stand at the door and knock . do not pretend difficulties : i am ready not onely to assist thee , but do also importune thee : i suggest good motions to thee ; do thou but pursue them and improve them . if any man hear my voioe , and open the door ; that is , if any man obey those dictates of conscience and overtures of light and grace that christ ever and anon offers him , and so becomes sincere in all things , and not willingly offends him in any thing , great or small , ( which will not fail to be done where the desire is sincere ; and this sincere desire is the door that lets in christ , for he passes into us through an unfeigned hunger and thirst after righteousness ; ) then , says he , i will come in to him , and sup with him , and he with me . that is , i will communicate my nature and spirit unto him , and he shall eat my flesh , which is meat indeed , and drink my bloud , which is drink indeed : that is to say , he shall partake of my body & bloud , not in symbols onely , ( which ye doe well to keep up till i come , ) but in a true and living way ; whereby that shall be accomplished , i in my father , and ye in me , and i in you . if any man love me , he will keep my words , and my father will love him ; and we will come unto him , and make our aboad with him . wherefore , being thus replenished with the god of life and the father of lights , thou canst not fail of being full of the spirit , and of all alacrity and readinesse to every good work : thy luke-warmnesse and dulnesse will goe away . . to him that overcometh will i grant to sit with me in my throne ; even as i also overcame , and am set down with my father in his throne . and that thou mayst be the more effectually rowzed up out of this tepidity and lethargicalnesse , thou shalt not onely enjoy me and my father on this earthly stage , but , if thou strivest so as to get the victory in the way i have instructed thee , i will translate thee to that heavenly kingdome most naturally and properly so called ; where thou shalt sit down , and drink of the fruit of the vine in the kingdome of my father . as i , after i had overcome , ascended up to heaven into those glorious mansions , and there sate down at the right hand of god : so him that overcometh the temptations and incumbrances , the pleasures and enticements of this lower world , will i cause to sit down with me in the heavenly places at the last day . which monition is the more seasonable , by how much more near the approach of that great day is . for i shall come visibly to judgement in the very next thunder to the siege of gog and magog , when i will transform your vile bodies into the similitude of my glorious body , that ye may be fit companions for me in heaven for ever . behold , i shew you a mystery : ye shall not all sleep , yet ye shall all be changed ; that mortality may be swallowed up of life . this is a great and stupendious promise ; but thou art to consider that it is spoken by him that is the amen , the true and faithfull witnesse , and the beginning of the creation of god , and therefore both will and can carry on all his design to the very end , amen . . he that hath an ear to hear , let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches . from the epiphonema coming here last , as in all these four last epistles , one may haply raise this objection , as if this sense of the promise immediately preceding it were not politicall or propheticall enough , but merely theologicall , the promise being to be performed in the other world , and therefore not the proper object of prophecy , which concerns the affairs of the stage of this earth : and that this therefore is against our professed rule . but i answer , that though the promise of obtaining heaven after this life upon the death of the body be merely a theogicall promise , and of a thing more spiritual and invisible , and not to be seen upon the face of this earth ; yet this promise of obtaining heaven at the resurrection and general day of judgement , it being the day of that great and visible assizes wherein the souls of the saints shall appear in glorify'd bodies , may well be ranged in the same order with the rest of the promises immediately preceding the epiphonemata of each epistle , and to be accomplished visibly in this life . for the sense of the promise in brief is this ; that as christ , after his sufferings , his death and passion , ascended visibly into heaven , ( for heaven is said to be the throne of god in the scripture , ) and so heaven became also christ's throne ; so those of laodicea , who upon the mortification of their lusts should attain to the state of life in the new birth , should ascend visibly into christ's throne , that is , into heaven , in the open view of them that should be left here on the earth and in the inferiour regions of the air , sentenced to that everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels . this is a plain and obvious sense of this promise , and such as the placing of the epiphonema requires , and is , in my judgement , no mean ratification of the true and literal sense of that article of our faith , touching the visible resurrection and glorification of our bodies , and their ascension into the heavenly regions , against such as would whiffle away all these truths by resolving them into a mere moral allegorie . thus consonant every way are the interpretations of these epistles both to themselves , and to the apostolick truth . chap. x. a recapitulation of the main evidences of the truth of this mysticall or propheticall exposition of the seven epistles to the seven churches of asia , by way of solution of difficulties touching the said epistles and their circumstances , otherwise hardly or not at all to be solved . . as in natural hypotheses those are accounted truest that solve the phaenomena of nature the most naturally and easily , and especially if such as are no otherwise solvible then upon the proposed hypothesis : so that meaning of scripture , i mean especially of any considerable portion thereof , ought to be esteemed truest that can solve the most difficulties that may be raised concerning the same , or the contexts precedent or subsequent thereto ; and if all , still the more certain ; and if unsolvible otherwise , there is still the more assurance of undeniable demonstration . now how near this mysticall or propheticall exposition of these epistles approches to the clearnesse of this case , i will leave to the reader to judge , after he has considered the solutions of the questions easily raised out of the epistles themselves , or the precedent chapter , and not easily answered , nor at all satisfactorily , at least most of them , but upon the hypothesis we have gone . . as first , if a man enquire why the spirit of prophecy , after he has so expresly given notice that this book of the apocalypse is to shew unto his servants things that are to come , and called it plainly a book of prophecies , should start so unexpectedly from the title and intended subject , as to write no lesse then seven epistles to certain churches , that have nothing considerable of prophecy in them , before he deliver any prophecies properly so called , but onely promises and comminations ; and that he should doe this with as great pomp and as high a preamble as he does when he begins so famous prophecies as those of the seven seals , and the opened book . but according to our hypothesis the answer is easie ; viz. that though these seven epistles to the seven churches of asia have a literal sense , yet they are also a parable or prophecy , and of as high concern for both matter and extent of time ( they reaching from the beginning of the church to the end of the world ) as the prophecy of the seals and opened book ; and that they are ushered in with this great pomp on purpose to give us notice thereof . secondly , a man would be prone to enquire why the spirit dictates letters unto the churches in asia , and not rather to the churches in europe , asia and africk . for certainly the church had disspred it self into all these quarters of the world by that time . as if the spirit of truth were a respecter of persons . for these are not the letters of john , but of the holy ghost . but our answer is ready at hand , that for the significancy of the word asia to comport also with the significancy of the names of the seven churches , asia alone was pitched upon . but , according to the propheticall sense , the true catholick church is writ unto under such distinct conditions as she was to vary into unto the end of the world . so that there is no partiality nor acception of persons in this . thirdly , if a man demand touching the order or precedency of these seven churches that are writ unto : what a plain and manifest account is there to him that compares the epistles in their propheticall sense with the intervalls of the church catholick lying in that order that these churches are ranged ? this is a satisfactory reason , and worthy the spirit that wrote these epistles . but whether they are ranged in this order , because that a letter-carrier going from patmos , his first journey will be to ephesus , and then to smyrna , and so in order till he come to laodicea ; whether the holy spirit of prophecy regarded that in the dictating of his letters , ( though alcazar the jesuite be for it , ) i cannot but suspend my judgement , and that not without a smile . but of this ataxie more particularly anon . . fourthly , if it be demanded why just seven churches in asia are writ to , neither more nor lesse , ( especially that in thyatira , according to the acknowledgement of epiphanius , being then not founded , but after the writing of these epistles , ) it is hard to give a satisfactory answer in the literal sense . for to say this book of the apocalypse affects the number seven , and that , because it runs upon the number seven altogether in the insuing part of the book , which is propheticall , it therefore , for conformity sake , chuses this number in writing to the churches though literally understood , seems but a meagre , mean and trifling account , a design unworthy the holy spirit that dictated this book . but the using this number seven all over is rather an intimation that the book is propheticall all over , and that these epistles are also a prophecy , accordingly as we have explained them . and taking them so , the answer is plain and obvious , viz. the number seven is here chosen out as symbolicall , it being the note of universality ; whence the pythagoreans , as i above noted , call it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . wherefore seven ( and no more then seven ) churches are writ unto , as standing for the seven intervalls of the church from the beginning to the end of all . fifthly , if it be demanded why these seven churches rather then any others , which in all likelihood may have the same vertues and vices that these are commended and taxed for : the reason of this is writ in the very notation of their names , every name being significative of the condition of the church catholick in that successive intervall of time that this or that church so named standeth for , and in such order as they are repeated . sixthly , if one require a reason why christ is described by holding the seven stars in his right hand in the epistles to the churches of ephesus and of sardis , why the same description in both , or why in either : in the literal sense it will be hard to finde any peculiar reason ; but in the propheticall sense already declared it is obvious . for the seven stars signifie all the pastours , whether in present existence , or succession . and ephesus is the beginning-state of the church ; and therefore it is both very seasonable and methodicall to represent the first founder , sustainer and continuer thereof by this emblem ; lo , i am with you to the end of the world . and that this again is hinted at in the epistle to the church of sardis , is with evident proportion and analogy to the affairs of the church there represented . for the church of sardis is as it were the beginning again or the emerging of the true church or kingdome of christ out of the power and kingdome of antichrist . . seventhly , why the church of ephesus , of all other churches , should be commended for their trying false apostles . why might not other churches be attaqued by them , and also discover them , as well as the church of ephesus ? the solution of which probleme is easie in this mysticall sense of the epistles , that places the ephesine intervall within the apostles times , but the rest on this side of them . eighthly , if any one demand why it is said to the church of smyrna , more then to any other church , be thou faithfull unto death , and i will give thee the crown of life ; and again , he that overcometh shall not be hurt by the second death : in the literal sense it will be very hard to finde any peculiar reason why this might not as well be said to the church in pergamus , where there was killing for religion , it seems , by the mention of the martyr antipas . i , but there was no obtaining the crown of life there in any peculiar sense ; but the crown of life , that is , the imperial crown , was given to the sufferings of the primitive martyrs under the ten persecutions : to whom also , according to the opinion of the ancient church , the promise of the first resurrection belonged . which is here obliquely glanced at , ( according to the mode of the apocalyptick style , that loves to hint things by ellipses , ) in that promise , he that overcometh shall not be hurt by the second death ; implying thereby , that he shall be made partaker of the first resurrection . ninthly , if any one will again object more particularly against the ataxie of the churches , that they are ranged neither according to the merit nor congeneracy of their conditions , pretending that it had been far better to have joyned the two irreprehensible churches together , smyrna and philadelphia , against whom there is no complaint at all ; and then ephesus , sardis and laodicea , against whom there is no complaint of eating things offered unto idols ; and afterwards pergamus and thyatira , in which churches alone there is : if any one , i say , contend that this method had been more exact ; truly , in the literal sense it will be hard to frame an handsome and satisfactory answer ; especially if he urge that god is the authour of method , as well as the god of order . but in this mysticall or propheticall sense the answer is solid and exquisite , and much-what the same that was given to the like difficulty more generally propounded before , namely , that the churches of asia are named in that order the successive intervalls of the church catholick were to proceed in , of which these asiatick churches are but the symbols or hieroglyphicks . and therefore those two intervalls of time which take in the reign of the beast and the false prophet , viz. the intervalls of the church of pergamus and of thyatira , must come after ephesus and smyrna , because till the expiration of those two intervalls idolatry had not again re-entred the apostatizing church . and the three following intervalls of sardis , philadelphia and laodicea , are the intervalls of the true church elapsed out of the hands of domineering idolatry ; and therefore we hear no more in them of things sacrificed unto idols , nor of any jezabel . and philadelphia , which is the most holy and the most glorious intervall of the church that is to appear on the face of the earth , is not to be named according to her dignity , but according to her succession in time , toward the latter end of the world , as she is here ranged . but of this more then enough , because we had touched of it in the general before . . tenthly , why is christ in his description before the epistle to the church in pergamus set out by a two-edged sword , coming , suppose , out of his mouth , ( according to the ellipticalnesse of the apocalyptick style ? ) what reason in the letter can be given of that ? for ( especially if this supplement be made ) it cannot respect the slaying of antipas with the sword . what peculiar thing then in this church of pergamus is there to require this description ? truly nothing at all appears in the letter . but in the propheticall sense it is very proper , the waldenses and albigenses in this intervall assaulting the church of rome , or at least defending themselves and their pure faith , so signally by this weapon , i mean , by the sword of the spirit , which is the word of god ; though themselves died so many thousands of them in the field by the sword for the faith they thus defended . and in the eleventh place , the description of christ before the epistle to the church in thyatira , and his feet like fine brasse , ( as if they burned in a furnace ; ) ( for that supplement is to be understood out of his description in the first chapter , as before : ) but now what peculiar significancy has this description , or what congruity to any thing in the church of thyatira literally understood ? surely none . but in the propheticall sense it is very expressive of those lower members of christ's body , his church here on earth , of their invincible zeal , and patience , and sincerity of affection , such as did abide the most fiery trialls that could be put upon them , and made them stand at the stake amongst burning faggots with the flames about their ears , and never flinch for it : as has been noted in the interpretation of that epistle . this was the state of that intervall of the church . twelfthly , in a book that is so full of aenigmaticall involutions , and coverings upon coverings , where he calls the churches golden candle-sticks , and the bishops or pastours stars and angels , even then when he interprets and offers to be more plain ; that the same authour should so openly and plainly mention any one by name as he does the martyr antipas , if there were not some farther mysterie in it , would be a great difficulty , and hardly to be digested by the more sagacious and curious . i must confesse i have often wondred at this naming antipas by name , till i understood a farther sense thereof , such as we have rendred in the exposition of that epistle . . in the thirteenth place , one might well demand why christ expresses a greater disgust against the church of laodicea then that of sardis . for though the former is said to be luke-warm ; yet the other , making a great show of life , is notwithstanding declared to be dead . that christ should be more enraged against luke warmnesse then hypocrisy , and threaten it more deeply then the other , i will spew thee out of my mouth , ( which is quite to cast a thing away , never to be resumed again , ) must seem marvellous to the considerate . certainly , if there were not some greater matter in it , the spirit of christ would not speak so severely onely to follow a metaphor . but in the propheticall sense the solution is easie , that passage being predictive of the extermination of the church from the face of the earth at the close of the world , as i have expounded it . in the fourteenth place , it may be demanded , why so affectedly and repeatedly in every epistle that phrase is used , i know thy works , without any variation or omission . which seems a thing but of small importance in the literal sense of these epistles : but in the propheticall it seems on purpose so repeated , to intimate an allusion in asia to the hebrew word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( as if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was intended on purpose to answer to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) that asia may also be significant as well as the names of the seven churches : which they all being , it is a shrewd presumption this repetition was for some such design as has been declared . whereas the literal sense can give no account thereof . fifteenthly , alcazar himself is much stumbled , that the spirit of god should be thought to take notice of any one particular woman in the church of thyatira , and so call her by the name of jezabel , as is ordinarily supposed . and indeed these things are too little for the majesty of this writing of the apocalypse . but how can we help it in the literal sense , if we will interpret with constancy and coherency ? but in the propheticall sense there is no such incongruity . the object is worth the spirit 's taking notice of in this kinde ; this jezabel being that painted woman of rome , intoxicating the kings of the earth with the cup of her spiritual fornications , as has been shewn upon the text. . sixteenthly , it seems very strange that that promise of ruling over the nations , and receiving the morning-star , ( which doubtlesse are politicall promises , ) should be made to the church in thyatira , more then to that in pergamus , or ephesus , and others . what victories or dominion did the church in thyatira in asia get over the nations more then other churches ? this is an hard knot in the literal sense . but in the propheticall it is loosned at the first sight . for the closure of the intervall of the church of thyatira brings in the time wherein whole nations revolted from the pope and his idolatrous church , and professed the reformed religion , and so in these parts got the pontifician party under them . seventeenthly , in the epistle to the church in philadelphia there is mention made of a mighty temptation that is to come upon all the world , to try them that dwell upon the earth , touching which he saith , behold , i come quickly . why should this be said to the church of philadelphia more then to any other of the churches here specified ? there are not the least footsteps of reason to be found in the literal sense . but in the propheticall sense the thing is plain . for the intervall of philadelphia beginning in the last vial , wherein that mighty and terrible earthquake is to happen , the great temptation , what it is , is plainly thence understood , and how in respect of this philadelphian church it will come quickly , she commencing but in the very same vial that this is to happen under . eighteenthly , why upon this philadelphia , a private asiatick church , should the name of the city of god , the new jerusalem which cometh down out of heaven from god , ( the very same that is expressed apoc. . ) be said to be written ? this title were too big and turgent for any private church , were it not a type or symbol of some greater matter . but by the propheticall interpretation this difficulty is quite removed . for the intervall of the philadelphian church is co-incident with the times of the new jerusalem , ( mentioned at the end of the apocalypse , ) and of the millenniall empire of christ upon earth . . nineteenthly , the curious may be prone to enquire , why the church of laodicea in those times should account her self so hugely and extraordinarily rich , increased in goods , and to have no want of any thing . and truly why this should be her estate rather then any of the churches specify'd , from the literal ground we can fetch no reason . but admitting the propheticall sense , and that this is the last intervall of the church of christ , it will naturally so come to passe : for this laodicea will be left heir to all the riches of her sister philadelphia , to peace , prosperity , purity in worship , abundance of natural knowledge , universal skill in the interpretations of the prophecies , and what-ever good thing there is belonging to the church , saving the life and spirit which philadelphia carried along with her into the other world . how easily then and naturally , or rather necessarily , does this description of the church of laodicea fall upon the last intervall ? and , lastly , it is a question extremely obvious to demand , why that phrase , he that hath an ear to hear , let him hear , which our saviour so often is found to adde at the end of his parables to the people , should be used here so repeatedly in every epistle , they being no parables , but epistles sent to each of those seven churches in asia respectively : and then , why this epiphonema is sometimes the last close of the epistle , sometimes not . to which probleme there is no tolerable solution in the literal sense of these epistles . but supposing a mysticall or propheticall sense , there was a necessity of affixing this epiphonema , to shew there was a farther sense intended then that of the letter : and also , that sometimes this epiphonema should come last of all , ( as in the four last epistles , ) that the promise to the conquerour , to him that overcomes , might be more certainly understood to be of a proper propheticall or politicall sense , not merely theologicall , moral or spiritual ; as has been abundantly declared in the exposition . . we might have drawn many more questions and solutions from the consideration of the letter , and of this hypothesis we go upon , to shew its solidity and fitnesse , but that we hold it needlesse , having produced so many already : which jointly considered , with the perpetuall easinesse and naturalnesse of the whole exposition of all the epistles , and the exact correspondency of the names of the churches to the events of the successive intervalls of the true catholick church which they represent , one would think they should not fail fully to satisfie any unprejudiced peruser of our exposition of these epistles , touching the truth thereof . but i am abundantly taught by experience , that both the finding out , and receiving of divine truths found out by others , is a special gift of god. and therefore to him alone be the glory for ever and ever , amen . the end . an antidote against idolatry : or , a brief discourse containing sundry considerations or conclusions tending to the discovery of what is or ought to be held to be idolatry amongst christians . with application to the doctrine of the council of trent , and for the putting a stop to the romish infection . matth . . . thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him onely shalt thou serve . to the reader . reader , . i suppose thou wilt expect something should be said of this ensuing discourse also , though it needs not be much . the occasion of writing it , and the fitnesse of joyning it to the foregoing exposition of the seven churches , will discover themselves to thee in the perusing of the treatise it self . i must confess i have treated of this argument elsewhere , namely , in my * mysterie of iniquity . but it is a subject of that great importance , that it deserves an entire treatise apart by it self , and that girt up in the most close and convictive method that may be : that those that are sanable or preservable from this dreadfull sin of idolatry may finde the efficacy of our antidote ; and those whose minds it cannot alter may ( however ) be found without excuse . and there is this considerable here above what i have done already on this subject , that here is such an expresse application made of the theorie to the grosse errours in this point and foul mispractices of the church of rome . . those of ours that speak the most favourably of that church cannot but declare them guilty of material idolatry , as they call it . and questionlesse there must be something among them very like that great sin , if there be any truth or sense in the visions of that divine volume of the apocalypse . for the order of things and demonstration of the synchronisms do necessarily cast those visions that represent the concerned as idolatrous ( chap. . and . ) upon the church of rome , ( as also ch. . v. — ; ) and they can belong to none else in the propheticall scope of the visions , time and place and the order of things having so unavoidably fixed them upon her . wherefore even according to divine suffrage they are guilty of idolatry in one sense or other , or come so nigh it , that the spirit of god in a jealousie , to exaggerate their wantonness , speaks to them as such , to deterre them from those suspected ways , and dangerous approches to so horrible a crime . and grant it were but thus , yet both in the vision of the * seven churches , and in that of the * whore of babylon , the people of god are expresly called unto and encouraged and commissioned to forsake the church of rome's communion . so that the protestants have not the least guilt of schism upon them for leaving her , no not upon this more favourable supposition . . but , alas ! alas ! this smooth hypothesis is but a pleasing dream arising from the softnesse and sleepinesse of the carnal minde , and the love of those things that must passe away as a dream or phantasm of the night . let god be true , and every man a liar , as the apostle speaks . and truly the spirit of god would scarce speak true , if what is spoken of idolatry so broadly and so expresly in those visions ( insomuch that they have been understood of the heathen idolatry even for this very reason by learned and able interpreters ) should , now we are necessitated to understand them of rome christian in her apostatized condition , not amount to the charge of any proper and formal idolatry at all . . but the desperatenesse of their case is , that if they were not represented by these visions as idolatrous , that is to say , if these visions had never been writ , or now they are writ , though they were to be understood of some others , and not of the church of rome ; yet appealing to the nature of the thing , to the true notion of idolatry properly and formally so called , and to the acknowledged doctrine of their church expressed in the council of trent , and their universal practices abetted by publick authority , this alone is sufficient to demonstrate them to be idolaters properly so called . which is the scope of this present treatise . . which therefore doth confirm and corroborate , and place beyond all exception , the orthodox protestant interpretations of those visions that concern the church of rome : which in this last age have been made so clear , and every way so natural and congruous , that this one thing granted of their idolatry , there cannot be the least scruple of the truth and congruity of the rest of the applications . . and i cannot but adore the faithfulnesse of divine providence , that has furnished his church with these oracles to be the guide of the faithfull in these latter ages , which are as it were the dregs of those times which the spirit of prophecy has set no good character upon ; wherein there is such an inundation of wickednesse and prophanenesse , that there is scarce any faith to be found upon earth . but that church which has deluded the world with so many fictions could never forge those prophecies that are so punctually true , and so cuttingly set out all her grosse miscarriages , and as expresly foretell her ruine , unlesse she will humble her self , and pluck in her horns , lay aside her bold boasts of infallibility , and be content to be taught to cast away her idols , and be cured of her dropsie and unnatural thirst after the bloud of the saints and the bloud of the martyrs of jesus . . nor can i on the other side sufficiently admire the stupidity of some of our own , and their grosse ingratitude to divine providence , that have so slight a regard to a book of that mighty weight and moment as the apocalypse is , and think it such a subject , as that any good wit must needs mis-place his time if he meddle with it : which is more then a pagan irreverence to so holy and so important oracles . the romans of old had another esteem for the verses of the sibylls : nihil enim ità custodiebant neque sanctum neque sacrum quemadmodum sibyllina oracula , as dionysius halicarnasseus testifies . and it was an high honour to be the keepers , much more the right expounders , of them . but that which god of his mercy offers to all , such is either the idlenesse , frivolousness or profaneness of the spirits of men , that it is scarce accepted of any . . the truth is , most men are loath to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to be messengers of ill news to the greatest , that is to say , to the corruptest , part of christendome ; but rather affect the glory and security of being accounted of so humane , of so sweet and ingratiating a temper , as that they can surmize well of all mens religions ; and so think to conciliate to themselves the fame of either civil and good natures , or of highly-raised and released wits , ( though it be indeed but a spice of the old abhorred gnosticism , ) that can comply with any religion , and make a fair tolerable sense of all . . but these are such high strains of pretense to wit or knowledge and gentility as i must confess i could never yet arrive to , nor i hope ever shall : though i am not in the mean time so stupid in my way , as to think i can write thus freely without offence . and yet on the contrary , i can deem my self no more uncivil then i do him that wrings his friend by the nose to fetch him out of a swound . . i am not insensible how harsh this charge of idolatry against the church of rome will sound in some ears , especially it being seconded with that other of murther , and that the most cruel and barbarous imaginable , and finally so severely rewarded with an impossibility of salvation to any now , so long as they continue in communion with that church . but , i believed , therefore i spake , and have no reason to recall my words , or to have concealed the truth , that their fishing may become lesse successfull in these parts ; and that it may be with my countrey-men according to that in salomon , surely in vain the net is spred in the sight of any bird . and therefore this is to open their eyes , that they may see what snares of destruction are laid for them ; and how those that promise others liberty are themselves the servants of corruption ; and how they that take upon them to be the onely absolvers from sin are themselves held fast in the snares of eternall death , and do as necessarily illaqueate all others therein whom they proselyte to their religion : so far are they from giving them any effectual absolution . . i doubt not but many will be prone to cry out , this is a very rude piece of uncharitablenesse to all romanists . but i say , it were a most perfidious kinde of civility , even to them themselves , ( to say nothing of the injury to our church and countrey , ) to declare otherwise . but if this be the main odium that sticks upon so true and usefull a conclusion , that it is so far estranged from the spirit of charity , hear but this brief parable , reader , and then i will leave it to thy self to judge , and conclude . there was a certain knight bravely mounted , as it might seem , and in goodly equippage , in bright armour , a rich scarf about his shoulders , and a large plume of feathers in his helmet , who was bound for the castle of health , seated on an high hill , not unlike to the domicilium salutis in cebes his table , which therefore he easily kept in his eye . but the way he was in being something stony and rough , and leading not so directly as he thought to the desired castle , he diverted out of the way , and descended into a green plain ; but not knowing whether it was all passable to the castle , called to some loyterers there in the field , to enquire of them ; who came right willingly to the knight , scraping many legs to him , and desiring him to tell his demands . . there was an old shepherd likewise not far off , who , by that time this idle people had got to the knight , had come down to him also . friends , said he , to those men he called , is the way passable and safe through this green plain to yonder castle ? pointing to the castle of health with his warder . very safe , may it please your worship , said they ; and , shrugging their shoulders , and scraping many legs , asked a largesse of the knight , pretending they had been at common work not far off . whereupon the knight put his hand into his pocket , and gave them liberally . but are there no bogs , said he , nor lakes betwixt this and the castle ? some small inconsiderable sloughs it may be , said they ; but you will meet with the holy society of the wipers every-where , who will be ready to wipe you as clean as a clock before you come at the castle . and being so excellently well mounted as we see you are , namely , upon that famous steed renowned over all the world , the infallible-footed aplanedo , so good an horse as that he never stumbles , your worship need fear no disaster at all : besides , the beast , god blesse him , has a nose like any hound , and by a miraculous sagacity , without any reason or humane literature , with an un-erring certainty he can smell out the right way , and so secure you from all danger . to say nothing how excellent he is at the swimming any water , and how he can tread the very air , he is so high-metall'd and light-footed . onely be sure to keep fast in the saddle . and then , sir knight , said the shepherd , if the wind blow fair , the plumes in your helmet may help to support you both ; but if not , some angel from heaven may take you by the crest of your helmet , as he did the prophet habakuk by the hair of his head , when he carried him through the air from judea into babylon . . the knight looking back , ( for he was not aware of the shepherd at this time , ) what con●e●●ed 〈◊〉 man is this , said he , that talks this phancifully ? may it please your worship , he is a shepherd , said they , and has a flock on yonder little hill hard by ; but he is one of the most self-conceited old fools that ever your worship met with in all your days : he thinks that all skill and knowledge lies within the compasse of his baldpate and wrinkled fore-head , though few or none are of the same opinions with himself . sir knight , said the shepherd , i pretend to no skill nor knowledge but what is certainly within mine own ken ; but what i know , i love to speak freely . and i tell you , sir knight , unlesse you be stark staring mad you will never follow these mens counsels , nor venture over this moor to that castle : for you will be swallowed up horse and man into a fathomlesse lake of ill-sented mire , for all the nice nostrills of aplanedo . you was in a more hopefull way before , though something rough ; but it is so streight before you come at the castle , that you could never have got through , unlesse you had left aplanedo behind you . he 's an old cholerick dotard , said those other fellows ; be but sure to keep the saddle , and we dare warrant your worship , ( our lives for yours ) that aplanedo will carry you safe through all dangers . wherefore upon the renewall of the high conceit the knight had before of his steed , and those confident animations of his mercenary counsellers , he set on in a direct line toward the castle over this moor ; the shepherd looking after him to see the event . but the knight had not rid two or three bow-shots from the place , but the shepherd saw them suddenly sink horse and man into the ground , so that they were both buried alive in the mire . . whereupon fetching a deep sigh after so tragicall a spectacle , he returned with a sad heart and slow pace towards his sheep on the top of the hill , drailing his sheephook behinde him , as they do their spears at the funeral of a souldier : whom his dog followed with a like soft pace , hanging down his head , and letting his tail flag , as if he had a minde to conform to both the sorrows and postures of his master . but those other false companions had somewhat before this got to a lone alehouse not far off , to spend the knight's largesse merrily with a bonny young hostesse , and in plenty of good ale and cakes to celebrate his funerall . . now , reader , i dare appeal to thy judgement which of these parties , the old free-spoken shepherd , or those mercenary flatterers , had the greater share of charity ; and to determine with thy self in what a sad condition those of the church of rome are , who , having the opportunity of being better instructed , as the knight had , are yet led away captive by such cunning deceivers . which is the main state of the controversie . if i had not come and spoken unto them , they had not had sin ; but now they have no excuse for their sin , saith our blessed saviour , in the gospel . the rest of the riddle , reader , i leave to thine own unravelling , and bid thee farewell . an antidote against idolatry . chap. i. what is idolatry according to divine declaration . . there are two ways in general of discovering what is or ought to be held to be idolatry amongst christians ; the one , divine declaration , the other , clear & perspicuous reason : which though they may haply reach the one no farther then the other , that is to say , that whatsoever may be concluded to be idolatry by divine declaration , the same may also by unprejudiced reason , and vice vers'd ; yet their joint concurrence of testimony is a greater assurance to us of the truth ; and two cords twisted together are stronger then either single . wherefore we will make use of both , and begin with divine declaration first . . the first conclusion therefore shall be , that as in civil governments it is the right of the supreme power to define and declare what shall be or be held to be treason , and punishable as such : so it is most manifestly the right of god almighty , who is also infinitely good and wise , to define and declare to his people what shall be or be held to be idolatry , which is a kind of treason against god , or crimen laesae majestatis divinae . and what is thus declared idolatry by god is to be held by us to be such , though the ludicrousnesse and fugitivenesse of our wanton reason might otherwise find out many starting-holes and fine pretences to excuse this thing or that action from so foul an imputation . but as in civil affairs the declaring such and such things to be treason does in a politicall sense make them so ipso facto : so god's declaring such and such things to be idolatry , they do to us ipso facto become idolatry thereby : though to an ordinary apprehension , perhaps , neither this would have seemed treason , nor that idolatry , without these antecedent declarations . but where the law-giver is infallible , there is all the reason in the world we should submit not onely to his power , but to his judgement in the definitions of things , and rest sure that that is idolatry which he has thought fit to declare so to be . . the second conclusion ; that what is declared idolatry by god to the jews ought to be acknowledged idolatry by us christians . the ground of this conclusion is fixed in the nature of the christian religion . for christianity being a far more spiritual religion then that of judaism , and therefore abhorring from all superstition , there cannot be the least relaxation to the most rancid of all superstitions , idolatry it self . wherefore whatsoever was accounted idolatry amongst the jews , and so defined by a divine law , must be reckoned much more such under christianity , there being not the least pretence for any relaxation . besides , there was nothing under the jews ( or can by any people be ) rightly deemed idolatry , but it is carefully enough cautioned against and plainly forbid in the first and second commandments of the decalogue . but the whole decalogue is moral , and so declared by god , in that it is said to be writ by his own finger on the tables of stone , ( which are symbols of the permanent substance of our souls , on which all the general precepts of morality are ingraven as innate notions of our duty . ) and therefore it is hereby intimated that the precepts of the decalogue are just and fitting , not onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not onely by an externall law , but engraffed in our very nature and reason ; and that the root and ground of them will easily be fetch'd from thence . to which you may adde , that it were a very immethodicall and heterogeneous botch , unworthy of the wisedome of god and of his servant moses , whenas all the rest of the decalogue is moral , to phansy one or two of the commandments of another nature . this is so rash and gross a reproach to the divine wisedome as truly , in my judgement , seems unexcusable . but besides this , the morality of the decalogue is also acknowledged by the church , it making part of their liturgie every-where , and we begging an ability of obeying the second commandment as well as the rest : and christ also referrs to the decalogue for eternall life . and lastly , it seems as it were singled from all the rest of moses laws , as a lasting and permanent law to the church of god , ( whence it is entred into our very catechisms , ) never to be abolished , or rather vigorously to be kept in force , for the second commandment's sake particularly , that it might strongly bear against those invitations to idolatry that may seem to offer themselves in the nature of our religion , or reclaim the church from it when they were fallen into it , as well as it was to keep back the jews from joyning in worship with their idolatrous neighbors round about them . wherefore all manner of idolatry being cautioned against by the moral decalogue given to the jews , there are no kinds thereof that ought to be entertained or allow'd of by any christians . . the third conclusion ; that what-ever was idolatry in the heathen , the same is idolatry in us , if we commit it . the reason of which assertion is this , because the heathen had not so express a declaration from god against all manner of idolatry as the jews and christians have : and therefore where-ever they are guilty of idolatry , the jew and christian , if they doe the like things , are much more . the fourth conclusion ; the idolatry of the pagans consisted in this , viz. in that they either took something to be the supreme god that was not , and worshipped it for such ; or else worshipped the supreme god in an image ; or gave religious worship , that is to say , erected altars , temples and images , offered sacrifice , made vows to , and invoked , such as they themselves knew not to be the supreme god , but either the souls of men departed , or other daemons , or else particular appearances or powers of nature . the fifth ; that both divine daeclaration and the common consent of christendome do avouch to us , that all the aforesaid pagan modes of idolatry practised by them were in those pagans practices of idolatry . and therefore , by the third conclusion , they must be much more so in either the jew or christian. . the sixth ; that giving religious worship , that is to say , erecting temples , building altars , invoking , making vows , and the like , to what is not the supreme god , though not as to him , but as to some inferiour helpfull being , is manifest idolatry . this is plain out of the precedent conclusion ; and may be farther confirmed from this consideration , that idolatry was very rare amongst the nations , especially the romans , if this mode of idolatry be not truly idolatry . and scarce any thing will be found idolatry amongst them , but taking that to be the supreme god which is not , and worshipping it for such . but if any being on this side the supreme god may be worshipped with religious worship void of idolatry , all things may , though some more non-sensically and ridiculously then others . wherefore to use any of the abovesaid modes of worship to what is inferiour to the supreme being , though not as to the supreme being , must be idolatry ; or else the roman paganism it self is very rarely , if at all , chargeable therewith , they having a notion accurate enough of the supreme god , and distinct enough from their other deities ; so that unlesse they chance to worship him in an image , they will seldome be found idolaters , or rather never , according to the opinion of some , who say , none that have the knowledge of the one true god can be capable of idolatry . . the seventh ; that to sacrifice , burn incense , or make any religious obeisance or incurvation to an image in any wise , as to an object of this worship , is idolatry by divine declaration . this is manifest out of the second conclusion and the first , as may appear at first sight . for it is plainly declared in the second precept of the decalogue touching images , thou shalt not bow to them , nor worship them : of which undoubtedly the sense is , they shall not be in any wise the object of that worship which thou performest in a religious way , whether by bowing down to them , or by what other way soever . for the second commandment certainly is a declaration of the mind of god touching religious worship , let the ceremonies be what they will. the eighth ; that to erect temples , altars , images , or to burn incense , to saints or angels , to invoke them , or make vows to them , and the like , is plain idolatry . this is apparent chiefly out of the third , fourth , fifth and sixth conclusions of this chapter . for the pagans daemons exquisitely answer to the christians saints and angels in this point ; saving that this spiritual fornication is a rape upon our saints and angels , but simple fornication in the heathen with their impure daemons . the ninth ; religious incurvation towards a crucifix , or the host , or any image , as to an object , and not a mere unconsidered accidental circumstance , is idolatry . this is manifest out of the seventh and eighth conclusions . but the worship of latria exhibited to the host upon the opinion of transubstantiation is idolatry by the third and fourth . . conclusion the tenth ; to use on set purpose in religious worship any figure or image onely circumstantially , not objectively , but so as to bow towards it , or to be upon a man's knees before it with eyes and hands devoutly lifted up towards it , but with an intention of making it in no sense any object of this religious worship , yet if this were in a country where men usually and professedly do , it were notwithstanding for all this intention a grosse piece of idolatry . but if the whole countrey should conspire to make this more plausible sense of those incurvations and postures ; admit we might hope it were not idolatry , yet it would be certainly a most impious and wicked mocking of god , and eluding his minde in the second commandment , ( that naturally implies the forbidding any worship or incurvation toward images in a way of religion , ) and a crime as scandalous and near to idolatry as the going into bed to another man's wife , with chast pretensions , would be to grosse adultery . nay , indeed , it is very questionable , if he knowingly and deliberately put himself into these postures before an image , whether the image will not be the object of those postures and incurvations whether he will or no. or rather it seems plain , beyond all questioning , that it will be so . for there is a corporeall action significative of honour and respect corporeally ( though not mentally ) directed towards and received by the image , and this at the choice of the religionist , which intitles him to the fact . but we need not labour much touching this last conclusion , the two former abundantly convincing the church of rome of multifarious idolatries , if they will stand to divine definitions , or the declarations of holy scripture touching this point . chap. ii. what is idolatry according to the determination of clear and free reason . . we will now try how obnoxious the romanists are out of the plain definitions and determinations of free and clear reason . in which method let us set down for the first conclusion , that idolatry is a kinde of injustice against god. that this is true , may appear from that definition of religion in tully , who defines it justitiam adversùs deum . which is not the sense of tully onely , but the very voice of reason and nature . and therefore idolatry being one kinde of irreligion or impiety , it must needs include in it a kind of injustice against god. . the second conclusion ; that idolatry is a very sore and grievous disease of the soul , vilely debasing her and sinking her into sensuality and materiality , keeping her at a distance from the true sense and right knowledge of god , and leaving her more liable to bodily lusts : that the natural tendency of idolatry is this , and yet the souls of men , in this lapsed state , are naturally prone to so mischievous a disease , as both history and daily experience do abundantly witnesse . see the mischiefs of idolatry in my mystery of iniquity , part . lib. . ch. . nor can it infringe the truth of this conclusion , that a man , retaining still the true notion of god according to his divine attributes , may , according to a sense of his own , bow down toward a corporeall object of worship . for he must retain it by force against such a practice as would and does naturally debauch the users of it . and besides , if he had really the life of god in him as well as the notion of him , he would feel such actions grate against his heart , and perceive how they would invade and attempt the abating and extinguishing the more true and pure sense of god and of his worship , and seduce the soul to externall vanity . but suppose a man or two could keep their minds from sinking down from a right notion of the deity ; yet they are as guilty of idolatry , if they give religious worship to corporeall objects , as he is of adultery and fornication that yet uses them so cautiously as neither to impair his bodily health , nor besott his natural parts thereby . and therefore , though there may be some few such , yet the laws against fornication and adultery ought notwithstanding to be very sacred to every one , even to those discreeter transgressours of them , and ever to be obeyed by them , because the observation of them is of such infinite importance to the publick . and what we have said of the worship of god is analogically true of honouring of the saints , who are best honoured by the remembrance and imitation of their vertues , not by scraping legs to or clinging about their images , which are no more like them then an apple is to an oister . . the third conclusion ; that those high expressions of the jealousie of god and his severe displeasure against idolatry are very becoming the nature of the thing , and his paternal care of the souls of men . this appears from the foregoing conclusions . for both the prerogatives and rights of the divine majesty himself are concerned , and also the perfection , nobilitation and salvation of the souls of men . this we discover by reason , and our reason is again more strongly ratify'd by divine suffrage . the fourth ; that idolatry , though it be so hainous a sin , yet where it is committed most in good earnest does necessarily involve in it ignorance or mistake , in the act of worship or in the object ; they either taking the object to be god when it is not , or to have some attribute of god when it has not , or to enjoy some prerogative of god which yet it does not , or else the worship not to be divine when it is ; or , lastly , they mistake in the application of the worship , thinking they do not apply divine worship to an object when they do . the fifth ; that to be mistaken in the object of worship , or in the kind of worship , or in the application , cannot excuse any-thing from being downright idolatry ; forasmuch as none are in good earnest idolaters without some of these mistakes . the sixth ; that the peculiar honour or worship which is given to god is given to him not so much as his honour and worship , as his due and right : insomuch that he that does not give it to god , or communicates it to another , does an injury to the divine majesty . this is plain , and consonant to what was said on the first conclusion , that religion is a kinde of justice towards god. and indeed if divine honour was not given to god as his due and right , it were no honour at all , but rather a benevolence . . the seventh ; the right of that peculiar honour or worship we doe to god is grounded either in the nature of his incommunicable excellencies , or in his excellencies so far as we know incommunicated to any creature , or , lastly , in divine declaration or prescription of the ways or modes of thus or thus worshipping him , which himself has some-time set down . the eighth ; that any actions , gestures or words directed to any creature as to an object , which naturally imply or signifie either the incommunicable or incommunicated eminencies of god , is the giving that worship that is the right and due of god alone to that creature , and that injury against the divine majesty which is termed idolatry . the evidence of this conclusion may appear from hence , because there is no other way of application of external worship then by directing such significant actions , gestures , or words , toward such a being as to an object . the ninth ; that the using any of those actions or gestures , or doing any of those things that the true and supreme god did chuse and challenge in the setting out the mode of his own worship , towards or in reference to any creature as to an object , this also is that injury against god which we term idolatry . the reason is this , because such a mode of worship does thus manifestly appear to be the peculiar right of god , which none can transferr to another but god himself . wherefore this right having not been communicated by him to any other , when-ever such a kind of worship is used , it must be used to him , and to none else . nor can his dereliction of any such mode of being worshipped warrant the use of it to any creature afterwards , because no creature can be god in those circumstances as he thought fit to institute such a worship for himself in : for no creature can be god at all , and therefore never capable of any of those modes of divine worship which god ever at any time instituted for himself . besides , if this dereliction and disuse of any mode of worship might make it competible to a creature , then might we sacrifice beeves and sheep ( besides other services of the temple ) to any saint or daemon . . the tenth ; an omnipercipient omnipresence , which does hear and see what-ever is said or transacted in the world , whether considered in the whole , or as distributed into terrestriall , celestiall , and supercelestiall , not onely all these omnipercipiencies but any one of them is a certain excellency in god , and , for ought we know , incommunicated to any creature . the eleventh ; that this omnipresence or omnipercipience terrestriall is one main ground of that religious worship due to god which we call invocation . this is plain , that upon this very ground that god hears and sees ( though himself be invisible ) what-ever is said or done upon earth , he has the honour of being invoked any-where or every-where , and of having temples built to him ; because he that is omnipresent cannot be absent from his temple , but is alway there to be invoked . the twelfth ; that if omnipresence or omnipercipience , at least terrestriall , ( if not celestiall , ) be not communicated to saints and angels by god , the invocation of either is palpable idolatry . this is manifest from the eighth conclusion . for invocation implies an incommunicated excellency in the saints or angels , and so communicates that right to them that appertains onely to god , and is that injury against god that is called idolatry . so that it is a vain evasion that pretends that we honour god the more in making him so good to the saints and angels , as to bestow this excellency on them ; whenas yet his wisedome has not thought fit so to doe . for we are so far from honoring him hereby , that we injure him in giving his right to another ; and we dishonour him in presuming he had done wiselier or better in doing what he has not done . whenas indeed , if he were so lavish in imparting his proper excellencies to creatures as some would make us believe he is , to palliate their own idolatries , it were the next way to make men forget all applications to god , and to cast him out of their memory , and take up with the more particular patronages of saints and angels . . the thirteenth ; that our thinking such a saint or angel can hear us where-ever we invoke him , is no excuse for our invocation of him , nor saves us from idolatry , since all idolatry committed in good earnest implies some mistake , as has been noted in the fourth conclusion . the fourteenth ; that all the modes or ways of the communication of this omnipercipiency to saints or angels are either very incredible , if not impossible , or extremely ridiculous as to any excuse for their invocation . for the usual residence of saints and angels being in sede beatorum , as the roman church holds , and that place on the coelum empyreum above all the stars , that the angels and saints should upon the account of the exaltednesse of their natures see and hear from thence what is done or said from one side of the earth to the other , is extremely incredible , if not impossible ; yea , sufficiently incredible , or rather impossible , though they had their abode on this side of the moon . and that they should see all things and transactions , hear all prayers and orations , in speculo divinitatis , is alike incredible ; a thing which the humanity of christ himself , though hypostatically united to the divinity , did not pretend to . but that god should either in this speculum or any otherwise advertise them that such a one prays to them that they would pray to him for that party , is it not at first sight above all measure ridiculous ? and alike ridiculous it is to pray to saint or angel , as if they were present and heard our prayers , when indeed they are absent , and cannot tell that we did pray , unlesse by some intelligencers . this devotion is an improper and unnatural act , and shews that we doe that to an invisible creature which is onely proper to be done to the invisible god ; and that therefore it is idolatry , as giving that right of worship to others which is onely congruous to him . . the fifteenth ; that though there were communicated by god to saints and angels at least a terrestriall omnipercipiency , yet if he have not communicated the knowledge thereof to us , as most certainly he has not , the invocation of them is notwithstanding a very presumptuous invasion of the indubitable rights of god , and the intrenching upon his prerogatives , and therefore as to the internall act no lesse then the sin of idolatry . the reasons of this conclusion are , first , that god concealing from us the knowledge of the communication of this excellency , does naturally thereby intimate that he would not have them invoked , but reserves the honour of our invocation of an invisible power unto himself onely . secondly , that whatsoever is not of saith is sin : and therefore the ground of invocation of saints or angels being at least dubitable , their invocation is sin ; and it being about the rights of god in his worship , what can it be better esteemed then idolatry ? thirdly , this principle of feigning or groundlesly coneeiting , without any revelation from god , that any creatures are capable of such honours as are god's indubitable right and prerogative , is the forge and shop , the palliation and pretense , for infinite sorts and odly-excogitated varieties of idolatrous objects : and therefore so presumptuous and so abominable a principle , which is the mother and nurse of such infinite ways of idolatry and injustice against god , even according to humane reason ought to be declared against as idolatrous ; and , consequently , all the practices thereupon are also to be declared idolatry , because they spring from a principle taken up which is such a fundamental piece of idolatry and injustice against god , and exposes him to all manner of idolatrous injuries . fourthly , to dare to doe an act we know not whether it may be idolatry or no , and this needlesly , our conscience not at all compelling us thereto , this is to dare to commit idolatry ; and the daring to commit idolatry , and so to doe defiance to the majesty of god , what is it less then to be an idolater ? for according to his inward man and the main morality of the action he is so : as he is morally a murtherer that , doubting or not knowing but that it is his own friend , by luck killed his intended enemy : for the sense is , that rather then not be revenged of his enemy , he will not stick to kill his dearest friend . and finally , this idolatry is the more discernible and aggravable in the invocation of saints or angels , their omnipercipiency being so extremely incredible , if not impossible or ridiculous , upon any ground , as appears by the foregoing conclusion . . the sixteenth ; that the erecting of a symbolicall presence with incurvations thitherward , the consecrating of temples and altars , the making of oblations , the burning of incense , and the like , were declared by the supreme god , the god of israel , the manner of worship due to him , and therefore , without his concession , this mode of worship is not to be given to any else ; as appears by conclusion the ninth . the seventeenth ; that the pagans worshipping their daemons , though not as the supreme god , by symbolicall presences , temples , altars , sacrifices , and the like , become ipso facto idolaters . this is manifest from the ninth , the fifteenth , and the foregoing conclusion . the eighteenth ; though it were admitted that there is communicated to saints and angels at least a terrestriall omnipercipiency , and that we had the knowledge of this communication , and so might speak to them in a civil way , though unseen ; yet to invoke them in such circumstances as at an altar and in a temple dedicated to them , or at their symbolicall presence , this were palpable idolatry . the truth is manifest agian from the ninth and sixteenth conclusions . . the nineteenth ; incurvation in way of religion towards any open or bare symbolicall presence , be it what-ever figure or image , as to an object , is flat idolatry : in the worship of saints , angels and daemons , double idolatry ; in the worship of the true god , single . the reason hereof is resolved partly into the ninth and sixteenth conclusions , and partly into the nature of application of worship . for externall worship is not any otherwise to be conceived to be apply'd to a symbolicall presence , but by being directed towards it as towards an object . wherefore if religious incurvation be directed towards any figure or image as to an object , this figure or image necessarily receives this religious incurvation , and partakes with god ( if the image be to him , ) in it ; which is manifest idolatry . for the direction of our intention here is but a jesuiticall juggle . and therefore i will set down for conclusion the twentieth , that religious incurvation toward a bare symbolicall presence , wittingly and conscienciously directed thither , though with a mental reserve , that they intend to use it merely as a circumstance of worship , is notwithstanding real idolatry . the reason is , because an externall action toward such a thing as is look'd upon as receptive of such an action , ( and has frequently received it , ) if it be thus or thus directed , will naturally conciliate the notions or respects of action and object betwixt these two , whether we intend it or no. and it is as ridiculous to pretend that their motions or actions toward or about such a symbolicall presence are not directed to it or conversant about it as an object , as it were for an archer to contend that the butt he shoots at is not the scope or object , but a circumstance , of his shooting ; and he that embraces his friend , that his friend is not an object , but a circumstance , of his embracing . which are conceits quite out of the rode of all logick . see the last conclusion of the foregoing chapter . . the twenty-first ; that the adoration of any object which we , out of mistake , conceive to be the true god made visible by hypostatical union therewith , is manifest idolatry . the reason is , because mistake does not excuse from idolatry , by conclusion the fourth and the fifth . and in this supposition we misse of one part of the object , and the onely part that single is capable of divine honour . for god to be disunited from this adored object is in this case all one as to be absent : for god is not considered nor intended in this act of adoration but as united with this visible object . which respect of union if it fail , that consideration or intention also fails , and the worship falls upon a mere creature . in brief , if out of mistake i salute some lively statue or dead body for such or such a living man , though this man or his soul were present , and saw and heard the salutation , yet i play the fool , and make my self ridiculous , and am conceived not to have saluted him i would : so if i doe adoration to any object , suppose the sun or some magicall statue , for the true deity visible , whenas neither of them are so , i play the idolater , and make my self impious , and have missed of the due object of my adoration . . the twenty-second ; that the adoration of the host upon the presumption that it is transubstantiated into the living body of christ is rank idolatry . this appears from the precedent conclusion . to which you may adde , that the romanists , making transubstantiation the true ground of their adoration of the host , do themselves imply , that without it were so their adoration thereof would be idolatry . but that it is not so , and that their ground is false , any body may be as well assured of as he can of any thing in the world : and no lesse assured that they are idolaters according to their own supposition and implication , as costerus indeed does most emphatically and expresly acknowledge it , if they be mistaken in their doctrine of transubstantiation ; as we shall hear anon . the twenty-third conclusion ; that adoration given to the host by protestants or any else that hold not transubstantiation is manifest idolatry . the reason is to be fetch'd from the nineteenth and twentieth conclusions . for it is religious veneration towards a bare corporeall symbol of the divine presence , and , to make the action more aggravable , towards a symbol that has imagery upon it , and that of the person that is pretended to be worshipped thereby . what can be idolatry if this be not ? the twenty-fourth ; that the invocation of saints and angels , though attended with these considerations , that both that excellency we suppose in them , and which makes them capable of that honour , is deemed finite , and also ( be it as great as it will ) wholly derived to them from god , yet it cannot for all this be excused from grosse idolatry . this is clear from the seventh , eighth , tenth , and so on till the sixteenth conclusion . for though this excellency be supposed finite , yet if it be so great as that it is no-where to be found but in god , it is his right onely to have such honours as suppose it . and though it be deemed or conceived to be derived from god , yet if it be not , we give an uncommunicate excellency to the creature , and rob god of his right and honour . and , lastly , though this excellency were communicated , but yet the communication of it unreveal'd to us , it were a treasonable presumption against the majesty of god , thus of our own head to divulge such things as may violate the peculiar rights of his godhead , and ( for ought we know ) fill the world with infinite bold examples of the grossest idolatry : and therefore all our practices upon this principle must be idolatrous , and treasonable against the divine majesty . consider well the fifteenth conclusion . . the last conclusion ; that this pretended consideration , that where christ is corporeally present , divine worship is not done to his humanity , but to his divinity , and that therefore , though the bread should not prove transubstantiated , the divine worship will still be done to the same object as before , viz. to the divinity , which is every-where , and therefore in the bread ; this will not excuse the adoration of the host from palpable idolatry . for first , that part of the pretense that supposes divine worship in no sense due or to be done to christ's humanity is false . for it is no greater presumption to say , that in some sense divine worship is communicable to the humanity of christ , then , that the divinity is communicated thereto . in such sense then as the divinity is communicated to the humanity , which are one by hypostaticall union , may divine worship also be communicated to it ; namely , as an acknowledgement that the divinity with all its adorable attributes is hypostatically , vitally and transplendently residing in this humanity of christ. which is a kinde of divine worship of christ's humanity , and peculiar to him alone , and due to him , i mean , to his humanity , though it be not god essentially , but onely hypostatically united with him that is ; and does as naturally partake of religious or divine worship in our addresses to the divinity , as the body of an eminently-vertuous , holy and wise man does of that great reverence and civil honour done to him for those excellencies that are more immediately lodged in his soul. which honour indistinctly passes upon the whole man : and as the very bodily presence of this vertuous person receives the civil honour , so in an easie analogy doth the humanity of christ receive the divine ; but both as partial objects of what they do receive , and with signification of the state of the whole case , viz. that they are united , the one with the divinity , the other with so vertuous a soul. hence they both become due objects of that entire externall worship done towards them , to the one civil , to the other divine . and therefore , in the second place , it is plain , that there is not one and the same due object capable of religious worship in either supposition , as well in that which supposes the bread transubstantiated , as in that which supposes it not transubstantiated . for in the former it is the true and living corporeall presence of christ , whose whole suppositum is , as has been declared , capable of divine honour ; but in the latter there is onely , at the most , but his symbolicall presence , whose adoration is idolatry , by the nineteenth , twentieth and twenty-first conclusions . and lastly , the pretending that though the bread be not transubstantiated , yet the divinity of christ is there , and so we do not misse of the due object of our worship ; this is so laxe an excuse , that it will plead for the warrantableness of the laplanders worshipping their red cloth , or the americans the devil , let them but pretend they worship god in them . for god is also in that red cloth and in the devil in that notion that he is said to be every-where . nay , there is not any object in which the ancient pagans were mistaken , in taking the divine attributes to be lodged there , whether sun , heaven , or any other creature , but by this sophistry the worshipping thereof may be excused from idolatry . for the divine attributes , as god himself , are every-where . to direct our adoration toward a supernatural and unimitable transplendency of the divine presence , or to any visible corporeall nature that is hypostatically united with the divinity , most assuredly is not that sunk and sottish , that dull and dotardly sin of idolatry . for , as touching this latter , to what-ever the divinity is hypostatically united , or ( to avoid all cavill about terms ) so specially and mysteriously communicated as it is to christ , the right of divine worship is proportionably communicated therewith , as i have already intimated . and as for the former , that through which the divine transplendency appears is no more the object of our adoration , then the diaphanous air is through which the visible humanity of christ appears when he is worshipped . but the eucharistick bread being neither hypostatically united with the divinity , nor being the medium through which any such supernatural transplendency of the divine presence appears to us , adoration directed toward it cannot fail of being palpable idolatry . for the eucharistick bread will receive this adoration as the object thereof , by conclusion the nineteenth and twentieth . but the adoration or any divine worship of an object in which the divine attributes do not personally reside , ( in such a sense as is intimated in those words of s. john , and the word was made flesh , ) but onely locally , as i may so speak , this , according to sound reason and the sense of the christian church , must be downright idolatry . chap. iii. that the romanists worship the host with the highest kinde of worship , even that of latria , according to the injunction of the council of trent ; and that it is most grosse idolatry so to doe . . and having thus clearly and distinctly evinced and declared what is or ought to be held idolatry amongst christians ; let us at length take more full notice of some particulars wherein , according to these determinations , the church of rome will be manifestly found guilty of idolatry , and that according to the very definitions of their own council of trent . as first , in the point of the adoration of the host , touching which the very words of the council are , latriae cultum , qui vero deo debetur , huic sanctissimo sacramento in veneratione esse adhibendum : and again , siquis dixerit , in sancto eucharistiae sacramento christum non esse cultu latriae etiam externo adorandum , & sole●●iter circumgestandum popul●que proponendum publicè ut adoretur , anathema sit . . this confident injunction of grosse idolatry , as it is certainly such , is built upon their confidence of the truth of their doctrine of transubstantiation . for the chapter of the adoration of the host succeeds that of transubstantiation , as a natural , or rather necessary , inference therefrom . nullus itaque dubitandi locus relinquitur , &c. that is to say , the doctrine of transubstantiation being established , there is no scruple left touching the adoration of the host , or giving divine worship to the sacrament ( or christ , as it is there called , ) when it is carried about , and exposed publickly in prócessions to the view of the people . but the doctrine of transubstantiation being false , it must needs follow , that the giving of divine worship to the host is as grosse a piece of idolatry as ever was committed by any of the heathens . for then their divine worship , even their cultus latriae , which is onely due to the onely-true god , is exhibited to a mere creature , and that a very sorry one too ; and therefore must be gross idolatry , by the twenty-first and twenty-second conclusions of the second chapter . . but now , that their doctrine of transubstantiation is false , after we have proposed it in the very words of the council , we shall evince by undeniable demonstration . per consecrationem panis & vini conversionem fieri totius substantiae panis in substantiam corporis christi , & totius substantiae vini in substantiam sanguinis ejus ; quae conversio convenienter & propriè à sancta catholica ecclesia transubstantiatio est appellata . and a little before , cap. . si quis negaverit in venerabili sacramento eucharistiae sub unaquaque specie , & sub singulis cujusque speciei partibus , separatione factâ , totum christum contineri , anathema sit . in which passages it is plainly affirmed , that not onely the bread is turned into the whole body of christ , and the wine into his bloud , but that each of them are turned into the whole body of christ , and every part of each , as often as division or separation is made , is also turned into his whole body . which is such a contradictious figment , that there is nothing so repugnant to the faculties of the humane soul. . for thus the body of christ will be in god knows how many thousand places at once , and how many thousand miles distant one from another . whenas amphitruo rightly expostulates with his servant sosia , and rates him for a mad-man or impostour , that he would go about to make him believe that he was at home , though but a little way off , while yet he was with him at that distance from home . quo id ( malúm ! ) pacto potest fieri nunc utî tu hîc sis , & domi ? and a little before , in the same colloquie with his servant , nemo unquam homo vidit , saith he , nec potest fieri , tempore uno homo idem duobus locis ut simul sit . wherein amphitruo speaks but according to the common sense and apprehension of all men , even of the meanest idiots . . but now let us examine it according to the principles of the learned , and of all their arts and sciences , physicks , metaphysicks , mathematicks and logick . it is a principle in physicks , that that internall space that a body occupies at one time is equal to the body that occupies it . now let us suppose one and the same body occupy two such internall places or spaces at once ; this body is therefore equal to those two spaces , which are double to one single space ; wherefore the body is double to that body in one single space , and therefore one and the same body double to it self . which is an enormous contradiction . again , in metaphysicks ; the body of christ is acknowledged one , and that as much as any one body else in the world . now the metaphysicall notion of one is , to be indivisum à se , ( both quo ad partes and quo ad totum , ) as well as divisum à quolibet alio . but the body of christ being both in heaven , and , without any continuance of that body , here upon earth also , the whole body is divided from the whole body , and therefore is entirely both unum and multa : which is a perfect contradiction . . thirdly , in mathematicks ; the council saying that in the separation of the parts of the species , ( that which bears the outward show of bread or wine , ) that from this division there is a parting of the whole , divided into so many entire bodies of christ , the body of christ being always at the same time equal to it self , it follows , that a part of the division is equal to the whole , against that common notion in euclide , that the whole is bigger then the part. and , lastly , in logick it is a maxime , that the parts agree indeed with the whole , but disagree one with another . but in the abovesaid division of the host or sacrament the parts do so well agree , that they are entirely the very same individuall thing . and whereas any division , whether logicall or physicall , is the division of some one into many ; this is but the division of one into one and itself , like him that for brevity sake divided his text into one part. to all which you may adde , that , unlesse we will admit of two sosia's and two amphitruo's in that sense that the mirth is made with it in plautus his comedy , neither the bread nor the wine can be transubstantiated into the intire body of christ. for this implies that the same thing is , and is not , at the same time . for that individual thing that can be , and is to be made of any thing , is not . now the individual body of christ is to be made of the wafer consecrated , for it is turned into his individual body . but his individual body was before this consecration . wherefore it was , and it was not , at the same time . which is against that fundamental principle in logick and metaphysicks , that both parts of a contradiction cannot be true ; or , that the same thing cannot both be , and not be , at once . thus fully and intirely contradictious and repugnant to all sense and reason , to all indubitable principles of all art and science , is this figment of transubstantiation ; and therefore most certainly false . reade the ten first conclusions of the brief discourse of the true grounds of faith , added to the divine dialogues . . and from scripture it has not the least support . all is , hoc est corpus meum , when christ held the bread in his hand , and after put part into his * own mouth , ( as well as distributed it to his disciples : ) in doing whereof he swallow'd his whole body down his throat at once , according to the doctrine of this council , or at least might have done so , if he would . and so all the body of christ , flesh , bones , mouth , teeth , hair , head , heels , thighs , arms , shoulders , belly , back , and all , went through his mouth into his stomach ; and thus all were in his stomach , though all his body intirely , his stomach excepted , was still without it . which let any one judge whether it be more likely , then that this saying of christ , this is my body , is to be understood figuratively ; the using the verb substantive in this sense being not unusual in scripture ; as in , i am the vine ; the seven lean kine are the seven years of famine ; and the like : and more particularly , since our saviour , speaking elsewhere of eating his flesh and drinking his bloud , says plainly , that the words he spake , they were spirit , and they were truth , that is to say , a spiritual or aenigmaticall truth , not carnally and literally to be understood . and for the trusting of the judgement of the roman church herein that makes it self so sacrosanct & infallible , the pride , worldliness , policy & multifarious impostures of that church , so often and so shamelesly repeated and practised , must needs make their authority seem nothing in a point that is so much for their own interest , especially set against the undeniable principles of common sense and reason , and of all the arts and sciences god has illuminated the mind of man withall . consider the twelfth conclusion of the above-named treatise , together with the other ten before cited . wherefore any one that is not a mere bigott may be as assured that transubstantiation is a mere figment or enormous falsehood , as of any thing else in the whole world . . from whence it will unavoidably follow , and themselves cannot deny it , that they are most grosse and palpable idolaters , and consequently most barbarous murtherers , in killing the innocent servants of god for not submitting to the same idolatries with themselves . costerus the jesuite speaks expresly to this point , ( and consonantly , i think , to the suppositions of the council ; ) viz. that if their church be mistaken in the doctrine of transubstantiation , they ipso facto stand guilty of such a piece of idolatry as never was before seen or known of in the world . for the errours of those , saith he , were more tolerable who worship some golden or silver statue , or some image of any other materials , for their god , as the heathen worshipped their gods ; or a red cloth hung upon the top of a spear , as is reported of the laplanders ; or some live animal , as of old the aegyptians did ; then of these that worship a bit of bread , as hitherto the christians have done all over the world for so many hundred years , if the doctrine of transubstantiation be not true . what can be a more full and expresse acknowledgement of the gross idolatry of the church of rome then this , if transubstantiation prove an errour ? then which notwithstanding there is nothing in the world more certain to all the faculties of a man ; as is manifest out of what has been here said . and therefore the romanists must be grosse idolaters , from the second , third , fourth , seventh and ninth conclusions of the first chapter , and from the fourth , fifth , eighth , ninth , twenty-first , twenty-second and twenty-fifth of the second chapter . all these conclusions will give evidence against them , that they are very notorious idolaters . . and therefore this being so high and so palpable a strain of idolatry in them touching the eucharist , or the eating the body and drinking the bloud of christ , wherein christ is offered by the priest as an oblation , and the people feed upon him as in a feast upon a sacrifice , which is not done without divine adoration done to the host , according to the precept of their church ; this does hugely confirm our sense of the eating of things offered unto idols in the epistles to the churches in pergamus and in thyatira , this worshipping of the host being so expresly acknowledged by the pope and his clergy , and in that high sense of cultus latriae , which is due to god alone . and therefore it is very choicely and judiciously perstringed by the spirit of prophecy above any other modes of their idolatry , it being such a grosse and confessed specimen thereof , and such as there is no evasion for or excuse . hoc teneas vultus mutantem protea ●odo . chap. iv. the grosse idolatry of the romanists in the invocation of the saints , even according to the allowance of the council of trent , and the authorized practice of that church . . but we will fall also upon those modes of idolatry wherein the church of rome may seem less bold ; though indeed this one , that is so grosse , is so often and so universally repeated every-where in the roman church , that by this alone , though we should take notice of nothing farther , idolatry may seem quite to have overspred her like a noisome leprosy . but , how-ever , we shall proceed ; and first to their invocation of saints . touching which the council of trent declares this doctrine expresly : sanctos utique unà cum christo regnantes orationes suas pro hominibus offerre , bonúmque atque utile esse suppliciter eos invocare ; & ob beneficia impetranda à deo per filium ejus jesum christum , ad eorum orationes , operam auxiliúmque confugere . where invocation of saints is plainly allow'd and recommended : and besides their praying for us , or offering up our prayers to god , it is plainly imply'd that there are other aids and succours they can afford , if they be supplicated , that is , invoked with most humble and prostrate devotion . and the pretending that this is all but the way of procuring those good things we want from god , the first fountain , and that through his son christ ; that makes the saints the more exactly like the pagans dii medioxumi , and the daemons that negotiated the affairs of men with the highest deity . . i say then that , though they went no farther then thus , even this is down-right idolatry which the council of trent thus openly owns , ( and consequently the whole church of rome , ) as appears from the third , fourth , fifth , sixth and eighth conclusions of the first chapter ; as also by the fifth , seventh , eighth , tenth , eleventh , twelfth , thirteenth , fourteenth , fifteenth and twenty-fourth of the second . but if we examine those prayers that are put up to the saints , their invocation is still the more unexcusable . . wherefore looking to the publick practice of the church of rome , authorized by the popes themselves , the invocation of a saint does not consist in a mere ora pro nobis , as people are too forward to phansy that the state of the question , ( though the mere invoking of them to pray for us would be idolatry , as is already proved : ) but , which is insinuated in the council it self , there are other more particular aids and succours that they implore of them , and some such as it is proper for none but god or christ to give : such as protection from the devil , divine graces , and the joys of paradise . but as the things they ask of the saints are too big for them to be the disposers of ; so the compellations , of the virgin mary especially , are above the nature of any creature . whence this invocation of saints will appear a most grosse and palpable mode of idolatry in that church . as i shall make manifest out of the following examples , taken out of such pieces of devotion as are not mutter'd in the corners of their closets , but are publickly read or sung with stentorian voices in their very churches . i will onely give the reader a tast of this kinde of their idolatry ; for it were infinite to produce all we might . . and first , to begin with the smaller saints , ( as indeed they are all to be reckoned in comparison of the blessed virgin , to whom therefore they give that worship which they call hyperdulia , as they give dulia to the rest of the saints , and latria to god alone , and to christ as being god : ) that prayer to s. cosmas and s. damian is plainly a petition to them to keep us from all diseases , as well of soul as of body , that we may attain to the life of the spirit , and live in grace here , and be made partakers of heaven hereafter . o medici piissimi , qui meritis clarissimi in coelis refulgetis , a peste , clade corporum praeservetis , & operum , moribus nè langueamus : nec moriamur spiritu , sed animae ab obitu velociter surgamus ; et vivamus in gratia , sacra coeli palatia donec regrediamur . . such a piece of devotion as this is that to s. francis : sancte francisce , properè veni ; pater , accelera ad populum , qui premitur & teritur sub o●ere , palea , luto , latere , & sepultos aegyptio sub sabulo nos libera , carnis extincto vitio . which is plainly a prayer to this saint that he would deliver us from the bondage and drudgery of sin , which is onely in the power of our great saviour and redeemer christ for to doe . that invocation of s. andrew is also for that spiritual grace of duly bearing the crosse here , that we may obtain heaven afterwards . jam nas foveto languidos , curámque nostrî suscipe , quò per crucis victoriam coeli petamus gratiam . but that to s. nicolas is against the assaults of the devil : ergò piè nos exaudi assistentes tuae laudi , nè subdamur hostis sraudi , nobis fer auxilia . nos ab omni malo ducas , vitâ rectâ nos conducas , post hanc vitam nos inducas ad aeterna gaudia . the like devotion is done to s. martin , s. andrew , s. james , s. bartholomew , and others , though not in the same words . . when i have given an example or two of their prayers put up to their she-saints , i shall a little more copiously insist on those to the blessed virgin. they beg of s. agnes the greatest grace that god is able to impart to the soul of man , that is to say , to serve god in perfect love. and this gift this one poor single she-saint is solicited to bestow on all men . ave , agnes gloriosa , me in fide serves recta , dulcis virgo & dilecta , te exoro precibus : charitate da perfectâ deum , per quem es electa , colere piè omnibus . that devotion put up to s. brigitt is , that she would play the skilfull pilot , and lead us through all the tempests and hazzards of this world so safely , that at last , by her good conduct , we may attain to everlasting life . the rhyme runs thus : o bregitta , mater bona , dulcis ductrix & matrona , nobis fer suffragia ; naufragantes in hoc mari tuo ductu salutari duc ad vitae bravia . . but that to s. catharine is a piece of devotion something of an higher strain , or rather more copious and expresse : but so great a boon they beg of her as is in the power of none to give but god alone . ave , virgo dei digna , christo prece me consigna , audi preces , praesta votum ; cor in bono fac immotum . confer mibi cor contritum ; rege visum & auditum ; rege gustum & olfactum , virgo sancta , rege tactum . ut in cunctis te regente , vivam deo purâ mente . christum pro me interpella , salva mortis de procella . superare fac me mundum , nè demergar in profundum . nè me sinas naufragari per peccata in hoc mari. visita tu me infirmum , et in bonis fac me firmum . agonista dei fortis , praestò sis in hora mortis . decumbentem fove ▪ leva , et de morte solve saeva ; ut resurgam novus homo civis in coelesti dome . . now it is observable in this devotionall rhyme to s. catharine , that whereas the council of trent advises men , ad sanctorum orationes , opem auxiliumque confugere , that in these many . verses there are not passing two or three that are an entreating of the saint to pray for us , but to aid and succour us in such a way as the story of the saint and the allusion to her name most naturally leads the phancy of the devotionist to think sutable for her : as if she were the giver of courage , of patience , and of purity of minde , and was to comfort and support us in the very agonie of death by her presence , which petition is very frequent to other saints also . so plain a thing is it , that this invocation of the saints is not a mere desiring of them to pray for us . but here the devotionist commits the whole regimen of both his soul and body unto this saint , to rule all his faculties and senses , and begs so high vertues and graces , as that none but god can supply us with them ; as i intimated at first . whence the invocation upon that very account also must appear most grosly idolatrous , as grotius , who yet is no such foe to the papists , does expresly acknowledge and declare . chap. v. forms of invocation of the blessed virgin used by the church of rome egregiously idolatrous . . and if they can contain themselves no better in their devotions towards these lesser saints , to whom their church-men will allow onely the worship they call dulia , how wilde and extravagant will they shew themselves in their addresses to the virgin marie , the mother of god , to whom they allow the worship they call hyperdulia ? and that is the thing i will now take notice of , though not according to the copiousnesse of the subject ; for it would even fill a volume . but some instances i will produce , and those such as are publick and authentick , as i intimated at first . in the rosarie of the blessed virgin she is saluted thus : reparatrix & salvatrix desperantis animae , irroratrix & largitrix spiritualis gratiae , quod requiro , quod suspiro , mea sana vulnera , et da menti te poscenti gratiarum munera ; ut sim castus , & modestus , dulcis , fortis , sobrius , pius , rectus , circumspectus , simultatis nescius , eruditus , & munitus divinis eloquiis , constans , gravis , & süavis , benignus , amabilis , corde prudens , ore studens veritatem dicere , malum nolens , deum volens pio semper opere . a very excellent prayer , if it had been directed to a due object . but such things are asked as are in the power of none but of jesus christ himself , as he is god , to give . . for the virgin mary is here made no lesse then a saviour and giver of all spiritual graces ; as she is also a giver of eternall life in what follows in prose . peccatorum causolatrix , infirmorum curatrix , errantium revocatrix , justorum confirmatrix , desolatorum spes & auxiliatrix , atque mea promptissima adjutrix , tibi , domina gloriosa , commendo bodie & quotidie animam meam ; ut me in custodiam tuam commendatum ab omnibus malis & sraudibus diaboli custodias , atque in hora mortis constanter mihi assistas , ac animam ad aeterna gaudia perducas . here is the commending of the soul of the devotionist into the protection of the virgin , that he may be kept from all evil , and from the frauds of the devil , and that she would assist at the hour of death to convey his soul to the eternall joys of heaven . . like that at the end of the rosarie ; cor meum illumina , fulgens stella maris , et ab hostis machina semper tuearis . o gloriosa virgo maria , mater regis aeterni , libera nos ab omni malo , & à poenis inferni . which is a petition for illumination of heart , for security from the devil and from eternall death : which is onely the privilege of the son of god , the eternall wisedome of the father , to grant , who is said also to have the keys of hell and of death . . but the thing which is very observable , and which i mainly drive at , is this , that the roman church toward the latter end , before the reformation broke out , had run so mad after the patronage of the virgin , that they had almost forgot the son of god , and spent all their devotions on her , whom they do at least equallize to christ , and so really make her , as well as some love to call her , the daughter of god , in as high a sense as christ is his son : as will farther appear in the process of our quotations . as in that prayer to the blessed virgin that follows in chemnitius : te , mater illuminationis cordis mei , te , nutrix salutis meae mentis , te obsecrant quantum possunt cuncta praecordia mea . exaudi , domina , adesto propitia , adjuva potentissima , ut mundentur sordes mentis meae , ut illuminentur tenebrae meae . o gloriosa domina , porta vitae , janua salutis , via reconciliationis , aditus recuperationis , obsecro te per salvatricem tuam foecunditatem , fac ut peccatorum meorum venia & vivendi gratia concedatur , & usque in finem hic servus tuus sub tua protectione custodiatur . which petition and compellations , saving what belongs to the sex , are most proper and natural to be used towards christ. but the virgin is here made our saviour and mediatour in the feminine gender . . as she is again most expresly in that prayer to her in her feast of visitation : veni , praecelsa domina maria ; tu nos visita : aegras mentes illumina per sacrae vitae munera . veni , salvatrix seculi ; sordes aufer piaculi ; in visitando populum poenae tollas periculum . veni , regina gentium ; dele flammas reatuum ; dele quodcunque devium ; da vitam innocentium . in which invocation the virgin mary is plainly called the saviour of the world , and pray'd unto for spiritual illumination of the soul , and for the purgation thereof from the filth both of sin and guilt : whereby she is plainly equallized to the son of god , and made as it were a she-christ , or daughter of god. to this sense also are those prayers put up to her in her feast of the conception and of the annunciation : but it were infinite to produce all . reade that prayer in chemnitius sung to her by the council of constance : it is a perfect imitation of the ancient prayer of the church to the holy ghost . chap. vi. more forms of invocation of the blessed virgin out of the mary-psalter , so called , extremely idolatrous and blasphemous . . we will now onely note some passages in the mary-psalter , as it is called , wherein how much at that time the church of rome had thrust themselves under the protection and patronage of the virgin , and made her the daughter of god , in stead of approving themselves faithfull touching the rights and prerogatives of the son and his worship , will be most notoriously evident . i will begin with the thirtieth psalm : in te , domina , speravi ; non confundar in aeternum . in gratiam tuam suscipe me ; inclina ad me aurem tuam , & in moerore meolaetifica me . tu es fortitudo mea & refugium meum , consolatio mea & protectio mea : ad te clamavi cùm tribularetur cor meum , & exaudîsti de vertice collium aeternorum . in manus tuas , domina , commendo spiritum meum , meam totam vitam , diem ultimum . this is that whole psalm to the virgin : jusr in such a form and with such a repose of spirit as david prays in to god himself . . but we will content our selves with transcribing onely some select pieces . as psalm . resperge , domina , cor meum dulcedine tuâ . fac me oblivisci miserias hujus vitae : concupiscentias aeternas excita in anima mea , & de gaudio paradiss inebria mentem meam . and again , psalm . salus sempiterna in manu tua est , domina ; qui te dignè honoraverint suscipient illam . clementia tua non deficiet à seculis aeternis , & misericordia tua à generatione in generationem . and psalm . dispositione tuâ mundus perseverat , quem tu , domina , cum deo fundâsti ab initio . tuus totus ego sum , domina ; salvum me fac , quoniam desiderabiles sunt laudes tuae in tempore peregrinationis meae . no man can say more to , or expect more from , the eternall god himself . whence they make the eternall godhead as hypostatically united with the virgin as with christ himself , and carry themselves to her as if she were as properly the daughter of god as he the son. for else how could she be said to have everlasting salvation in her power , and to have laid the foundations of the world from the beginning with the eternall deity ? . there are also other passages in this psalter whereby they make the virgin mary a she-christ , the daughter of god , as he is the son of god ; and that is by the applying of the very phrases spoken of him in the scripture , unto her . as in psalm . venite ad eam omnes qui laboratis & tribulati estis , & refrigerium & solatium dabit animabus vestris . and psalm . terge foeditatem me am , domina , quae semper rutilas puritate . fons vitae , influe in os meum , ex quo viventes aquae profluunt & emanant . omnes sitientes venite ad illam , & de fonte suo gratanter vos potabit . this is the gift of the spirit , belonging onely to christ to give to them that believe on him . and he is also said to be the ease and rest of all them that are weary and heavy laden . and again , psalm . omnes gentes , plaudite manibus , psallite in jubilo virgini gloriosae . quoniam ipsa est porta vitae , janua salutis , & via nostrae reconciliationis , spes poenitentium , solamen lugentium , pax beata cordium atque salus . this is attributed to the virgin , whenas it is christ alone that is the way of salvation and reconciliation with god. . this is a foul and tedious subject , and therefore to make an end at length , let us consider the blasphemy of the . psalm . quemadmodum desiderat cervus ad fontes aquarum , ità ad amorem tuum anhelat anima mea , virgo sancta . quia tu es genitrix vitae meae , & altrix reparationis carnis meae : quia tu lactatrix salvationis animae meae , initium & finis totius salutis meae . here is that attributed to the virgin which is said of christ , that he is the authour and finisher of our faith and salvation . nay , the creation or generation of our life and flesh , as well as our salvation , is here ascribed to the virgin. which can have no sense or truth , unless she were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god-woman , in that sense that christ is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god-man , and , as i said , were as properly the daughter of god as he is the son of god. . as she is expresly called in her litanie , filia dei , the daughter of god. which , considering what high titles they give her both in that litanie and elsewhere , as , illuminatrix cordium , fons misericordiae , flumen sapientiae , mater dei , regina coeli , domina mundi , domina coeli & terrae , would be but a dwindling title , ( it belonging to all women that are believers , ) if there was not some such raised and sublime sense of it as i have intimated . and therefore their addresses to her being as if she were , as i said , a she-christ , and the daughter of god in as high a sense at least as christ is the son of god , and she being called the daughter of god in the litania mariae , in her litanie or publick supplication to her , it is plain , that in that intervall of the church wherein this most conspicuously and notoriously happened , the church of rome , by reason also of the abundance of their devotions then to the virgin , might be said to be rather the worshippers of the daughter of god then of the son of god. and that therefore the spirit of prophecy foreseeing these times , whenas for such a space he called rome pergamus , this succeeding scene coming on , he might very well change the title of pergamus into that of thyatira , with a derisorious allusion to the occasion of the name of that city , from the news of a daughter being born to nicanor . as if god almighty had the like occasion of changing the name of pergamus into thyatira , from the romanists turning the virgin mary into the daughter of god. . for a stop to which insolency christ seems on purpose in the epistle to the church in thyatira to resume to himself the title of the son of god , notwithstanding that he is called the son of man in the vision in the foregoing chapter , out of which he ever draws a description of himself for an entrance before each epistle to the churches . which , in my judgement , is a thing specially well worth the marking ; and that this making the virgin mary the daughter of god in this intervall , might alone be a sufficient occasion of changing the name of the church of rome from pergamus to thyatira . but other things that are apposite are also comprehended by a propheticall henopoeïa . . but this is an overplus to our present purpose , which was mainly to discover the grosse idolatry of the church of rome in the invocation of their saints , and especially of the virgin mary ; and how both the definition of the council of trent is idolatrous in this point , and much more the practice of the church countenanced by publick authority . . for this mary-psalter it self , that has the most enormous and blasphemous forms of idolatrous invocation of any , is not the private contrivance of some single , obscure , superstitious monk , but bears the title of that seraphick doctour s. bonaventure , once cardinal of rome : which is no small publick countenance thereto . and that nothing might be wanting to the grace and furtherance of so devotionall a piece of idolatry , there was instituted a peculiar society , entitled the fraternity of the many-psalter , confirmed afterward by sixtus the fourth , many indulgences being added anno . and innocent the eighth added to these indulgences plenarie remission à poena & culpa once in their life , and once in articulo mortis , to as many as entred into that fraternity . . and in such case stands the church of rome at this very day , that is to say , she is still thyatira , notorious for her idolatrous worship of the virgin mary . but the intervall of the true church in thyatira ceased upon the reformation , when we cast off the pope , or suffered jezebel to delude the servants of god no longer , nor to debauch them with idolatrous modes of worship . but this is onely by the bye . in the mean time it is abundantly manifest , that the invocation of saints in the roman church is not onely the praying to them that they would pray to god for us , but the asking aids of them , and such frequently as are in the power of none but of god , and of christ as he is god , for to give ; and therefore is still the grosser idolatry . chap. vii . that the doctrine of the council of trent touching the worshipping of images is idolatrous , and the reason of the doctrine weak and unsound . . and thus much for their idolatry in the invocation of saints . let us now consider what the sense of the council of trent is touching the worshipping of images . imagines porrò christi , deiparae virginis , & aliorum sanctorum , in templis praesertim , habendas & retinendas esse , eisque debitum honorem & reverentiam impertiendam . quoniam honos qui eis exhibetur refertur ad prototypa , quae illae repraesentant ; ità ut per imagines quas osculamur , & coram quibus caput aperimus & procumbimus , christum adoremus , & sanctos , quorum illae similitudinem gerunt , veneremur . id quod conciliorum , praesertim verò secundae nicaenae synodi , decretis contra imaginum oppugnatores est sancitum . the meaning of which in brief is this , that the images of christ , of the blessed virgin and other saints , are to be had and retain'd in churches , and that due honour and reverence is to be done to them . for which are produced two reasons . the first , in that the honour that is done to the images is referred to the prototypes . the second , in that this injunction is but what the second nicene council had of old decreed . . to which i answer , that thus much as the council of trent has declared touching images is plain and open idolatry by the seventh conclusion of the first chapter , and expresly against the commandment of god , who forbids us to make any graven image to bow down to or worship . but the council of trent says , yes , ye may make graven images of the saints , and set them up in their temples , and give them their due honour and worship ; nay , ye ought to doe so ; and instances in the very act of bowing or kneeling and prostrating our selves before them . this definition of the council is so palpably against the commandment of god , that they are fain to leave the second commandment out of the decalogue , that the people may not discern how grosly they goe against the express precepts of god in their so frequent practices of idolatry . see the first , ninth and tenth conclusions of the first chapter ; as also the third , fourth , fifth , eighteenth , nineteenth and twentieth of the second . . nor can all their tricks and tergiversations and subtil elusions serve their turn . for undoubtedly the decalogue was writ to the easie capacity of the people , and therefore their hearts and consciences are the best interpreters . not the foolish evasions and subterfuges of perfidious sophisters , who , to the betraying of weak souls to idolatry and damnation , and for the opening their purses , would make them believe that the council of trent's enjoyning of images in churches , and the honouring them or worshipping them and bowing down before them , can consist with god's forbidding to make any graven image , and to bow down to it and worship it . so that i say , the council it self does appoint flat idolatry to the christian world to be practised . and it being so monstrous a thing , i pray you now let us consider the reasons why they do so . . the first is , because the honour done to the image is referr'd to the prototype . but i answer , that this reference is either in virtue of that similitude the images have with those persons they represent , which the words of the council seem to imply , at least touching the saints , quorum illae similitudinem gerunt ; as when we praise a picture of such or such a person , that it is a very comely and lovely picture , this praise naturally has a reference to the person whose picture it is , in virtue of the similitude betwixt the picture and the party . or else this reference , without any regard to personal similitude , is from the direction of the intention of the devotionist , that he intends upon the seeing and bowing , suppose , to the image of christ , the blessed virgin , or any saint , to take this occasion to worship christ , the blessed virgin or the saint thereby , the image being but at large a symbolicall presence of them , it being not regarded whether the symbol or image have any personal similitude with the party it represents or no. . but now as for the former it is evident , that it is infinitely uncertain whether any image of christ , the blessed virgin , or of this or that saint , be like the carnal figure of these persons while they were alive upon earth , or no. nay , it is in a manner certain to the contrary , none of these holy souls being given to such follies as to have their pictures drawn while they were alive . see my * mysterie of iniquity . but being it is extremely improbable but an image should be like some or other , that are either now alive , or have lived on the earth since the beginning of the world , according to this first supposition , this honour or religious worship intended to christ , the blessed virgin , or any other saint , will not onely misse them , but certainly fall on some other who , in stead of being saints , haply are or have been very vile and wicked persons . . but besides , no saints are worshipped before they be in heaven , nor indeed are properly saints till then ; and the glories in their pictures that are about their heads shew plainly that they intend to represent the saints in their present condition of glory in heaven . whence it is plain that the images are nothing like them they are made for . for how can these images of brasse or stone or wood , or any other materials , bear the image of a separate soul , which all the saints are for the present ? and what likenesse can there be betwixt the glorious body of christ heavenly and spiritual , and an image of any terrestriall matter ? no more then betwixt a piece of dirt or soot and the sun or bright morning-star . and , which is most of all to be considered , what terrestriall image can possibly represent him that is truly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god-man , and is not the object of our adoration but as he is this divine complexum as well of the divinity as the humanity ? but what statuarie can carve out the effigies of the deity ? so that the pretense of this reference of the honour to the prototype in this first sense thereof is very weak and vain . nor , though there were this natural reference , would it follow that we are to honour them this way , it being so plainly forbid , and there being better ways then this , viz. the commemorating and imitating their vertues . . and for that second sense , it is indeed disinvolved of those former difficulties ; but greater here occurr . for as touching our saviour christ , forasmuch as his pretended image is but his symbolicall presence , the doing of divine worship towards it is again plain idolatry , as appears by that example of the israelites , who worshipped the golden calf in reference to jehovah , as appears plainly in the story . and for the blessed virgin and the rest of the saints , that incurvation toward their symbolicall presences is flat idolatry , is manifest from the eighth , ninth and tenth conclusions of the first chapter , and the fifth , nineteenth and twentieth of the second of this treatise . and indeed thus to make the images of the saints so called onely their symbolicall presences , and so to worship them before these images , is an attributing divine honour to them . for this naturally does declare that they have at least a terrestriall omnipresency , which no invisible power which we know has but onely god. but to make a low obeisance to an absent person god knows how many millions of miles off , is still a more forced and ridiculous thing . and therefore the saluting of the saints thus at their symbolicall presences or images , and in the mean time acknowledging them to be in sede beatorum , ( which they do , and must do , unlesse they exclude them heaven , ) is to acknowledge one soul to fill heaven and earth with its presence , which is that vast privilege of god almighty onely ; and therefore this worship to them is gross idolatry , as supposing such a perfection in them as is no-where but in god. besides what was intimated before , that let this reference be what it will , there being an incurvation or prostration before images , whether they be mere symbols or exact representations , it must be ipso facto idolatry by the seventh conclusion of the first chapter . from whence it follows , that the saints are not honoured by this worshipping of their images , but hideously reproched , it supposing them to be pleased and gratify'd with that which is an abomination to the lord , and a grofs transgression of his express commands . it implies , i say , that they are ambitious , vain-glorious and rebellious against god. and therefore they that the most vehemently oppose this way of honouring of them by images and invocation are the most true and faithfull honourers of them , they so zealously vindicating them from the great reproches these others cast upon them . so far are they from being guilty herein of any rudenesse or clownishnesse against the saints of god. chap. viii . the doctrine of the second council of nice touching the worship of images , ( to which the council of trent refers , ) that it is grosly idolatrous also . . but now as for the other reason of these tridentine fathers , whereby they would support their determination in this point , viz. the authority of the second council of nice held about the year , ( to omit , that long before this time the church had become asymmetral , which yet is a very substantial consideration ) i shall onely return this brief answer . the god of israel , which is the father of our lord jesus christ , has given this expresse command to his church for ever , thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , thou shalt not bow down to it , nor worship it . but the second council of nice says , thou mayst and shalt bow down to the image of christ , of the blessed virgin , and of the rest of the saints . now whether it be fit to believe and obey god , or men , judge ye : i might adde farther , men so silly and frivolous in the defense of their opinion , so false and fabulous in the allegation of their authorities and the recitall of miraculous stories , as chemnitius has proved at large in his examen of the council of trent . . i will give an instance or two . no man lighteth a candle , and putteth it under a bushell ; therefore the images of the saints are to be placed on the altars , and wax-candles lighted up before them , in due honour to them . again , psalm . but to the saints that are on the earth : but the saints are in heaven , say they , therefore their images ought to be on the earth , &c. as for the miracles done by images , as their speaking , the healing of the sick , the revenging of the wrong done to them , the distilling of rorid drops of balsame to heal the wounded , sick or lame , their recovering water into a dry well , and the like , it were too tedious to recite these figments . but that of the image of the virgin , to whom her devotionist spake when he took leave of her , and was to take a long journey , intreating her to look to her candle , which he had lighted up for her , till his return , i cannot conceal . for the story says , the same candle was burning six months after , at the return of her devoto . an example of the most miraculous prolonger that ever i met withall before in all my days . such an image of the virgin would save poor students a great deal in the expense of candles , if the thing were but lawfull and feasible . . from these small hints a man may easily discover of what authority this second council of nice ought to be , though they had not concluded so point-blank against the word of god. but because that clause in this paragraph of the council i have recited , id quod conciliorum , praesertim verò secundae nicaenae synodi , &c. may as well aim at the determination of what these fathers mean by that debitus honor & reverentia which they declare to be due to the images of christ and the saints , as confirm their own conclusion by the authority of that nicene council , we will take notice also what a kinde of honour and reverence to images the nicene council did declare for , and in short it is this ; that they are to be worshipped and adored and to be honoured with wax-candles , and by the smoaking of incense or perfumes , and the like . which smells rankly enough in all conscience of idolatry , as grotius himself upon the decalogue cannot but acknowledge . but this is not all . the invocation of saints , their mediation and propitiating god for us for adoring their images , healing of diseases , and other aids and helps , besides ora pro nobis , are manifestly involved in the worship of these images , according to that nicene council . . and truly , according to the collections of photius in justellus , one would think that they meant the cultus latriae to the image of christ , they using the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as if that worship which was done to the image passed through to christ himself , which would not be sutable to him , if it were not divine worship . and where that word is not used , yet the sense makes hugely for it . as in this paragraph touching the second council of nice according to photius ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . this seventh synod , saith he , ( that is to say , the second of nice ) with joint suffrages hath established and ratify'd the worshipping of the image of christ , for the honour and reverence of him that is expressed by it ; this worship and honour being done in such manner as when we approach the holy symbols or types of our most holy and divine worship : ( for the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ) for we do not stop at them , nor restrain our worship and devotion to them , nor are we divided toward heterogeneous and different scopes or objects ; but by that service and worship of them that appears divided are we carried up devoutly and undividedly unto the one and indivisible deity . whereby it is plainly declared , that that very worship which passes to the deity is done towards the image of christ first or jointly , as being one and the same undivided worship in truth and reality ; as also that this worship is that worship which is called latria , and is due to the highest god onely . . but that religious worship is done to the images of all the saints seems imply'd in what comes afterwards , where it is said , that this second council of nice , ( which photius calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that this council has not onely established and appointed that the image of christ should be honoured and worshipped , but the holy images of the virgin mary and of all the saints , according to the excellency and venerability of their prototypes . for even by these are we carried up into a certain unitive and conjunctive vision , and thereby are vouchsafed that divine and supernatural conjunction or contact with the highest of all desirables , that is , god himself . . can any thing more inflame the souls of men with that mysticall lust after idols then the doctrines of this nicene synod ? for as for the image of christ , the same devotion and worship is done to that which is done to god himself . and for the images of the virgin mary and the rest of the saints , though that worship is allotted them onely that is proportionable to their prototypes , yet they are worshipped such a way as that thereby , while we adhere to their images or statues , we are declared to be made fit for and to be vouchsafed a tactual union with god himself . what philtrum more effectual to raise up that idolomania , that being mad and love-sick after images and idols , then this ? what can inrage their affections more towards idolatry , then to phansie that while they worship idols , and cling about dead statues , that very individual act ( and therefore it cannot be too intense ) is that wherewith they are united to , and lie in the very embraces of , the ever-living and true god ? . the sense of the synod is , according to the representation of photius , that we worship and unite our selves with god as well in the worshipping the images of the virgin and of other saints , as in the worshipping of the image of christ. so that all is religious worship , and consequently grosse idolatry , it being done to stocks and stones and such like senslesse objects . for the drift of all idolatry is , when it is questioned , and craftily defended , that through the worship of daemons and images they reach at the worship of , and the joyning their devotion to , the first and highest godhead . wherefore the council of trent declaring with the second council of nice , that is to say , the blinde leading the blinde , they have both fallen into this dreadfull pit of idolatry . chap. ix . the meaning of the doctrine of the council of trent touching the worship of images more determinately illustrated from the general practice of the roman church and suffrage of their popes , whereby it is deprehended to be still more coursly and paganically idolatrous . . but it may be it may give more satisfaction to some , to know what is the church of rome's own sense of this honor debitus she declares ought to be done to the images of christ and the saints . putting off a man's hat , and lying prostrate before them , the council does not stick to instance in by the bye . but because the council calls this neither dulia , nor hyperdulia , nor latria , some will , it may be , be ready to shuffle it off with the interpretation of but a civil complement to these images or their prototypes . but since the council of trent has declared nothing farther , what can be a more certain interpreter of their meaning then the continued custome of their church , and the sense of such doctours as have been even sainted for their eminency , as thomas aquinas and bonaventure , who both of them have declared that the image of christ is to be worshipped with the worship of latria , the same that christ is worshipped with ? . and azorius the jesuite affirms that it is the constant opinion of the theologers , ( their own , he means , you may be sure , ) that the image is to be honoured and worshipped with the same honour and worship that he is whose image it is . which is not unlike that in the council of nice , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the foregoing citation . but that they are all capable of religious worship , the council of trent it self ( as well as bellarmine and others , if not all the theologers of that church , ) does plainly acknowledge , in that it determines for their invocation , which is competible to no invisible power but the godhead it self . wherefore it is manifest that their images are worshipped with religious worship also . . but we shall make still the clearer judgement thereof , if we consider the consecration of these images which the council of trent declares are to be worshipped . for the consecration and worshipping of them makes them perfectly as the idol-gods of the heathen , as octavius jearingly speaks of the heathen gods , that is , their idols , in minucius felix : ecce funditur , fabricatur , scalpitur ; nondum deus est . ecce plumbatur , construitur , erigitur ; nec adhuc deus est . ecce ornatur , consecratur , oratur ; tunc postremò deus est . behold it is clothed or adorned , it is consecrated and prayed unto ; then at length it becomes a god. and if this will doe it , the church of rome's images will prove as good idol-gods as any of them all . . chemnitius recites some forms of consecration : i will cull out onely those of the images of the blessed virgin and of s. john. that of the virgin is this : sanctify , o god , this image of the blessed virgin , that it may aid and keep safe thy faithfull people ; that thundrings and lightnings , if they grow too terrible and dangerous , may be quickly expelled thereby ; and that the inundations of rain , the commotions of civil war , and devastations by pagans , may be suppressed by the presence thereof . which is most effectual to make all men come and hurcle under the protection of the virgin 's image in such dangers , as under the wings of the great jehovah . this is hugely like the consecrated telesms of the pagans . but let us hear the form of the consecration of the image of s. john also : grant , o god , that all those that behold this image with reverence , and pray before it , may be heard in whatsoever streights they are . let this image be the holy expulsion of devils , the conciliating the presence and assistence of angels , the protection of the faithfull ; and that the intercession of this saint may be very powerfull and effectuall in this place . what a mighty charm is this to make the souls of the feeble to hang about these images as if their presence were the divine protection it self ? . these chemnitius recites out of the pontificall he perused . but the rituale romanum , published first by the command of paulus quintus , and again authorized by pope urban the eighth , will doe our businesse sufficiently , they being both since the council of trent ; and therefore by the exposition of these popes we may know what that debitus honor is which the tridentine fathers mention as that which ought to be done to the images of christ , the blessed virgin , or any other saint . for the consecration of their images runs thus : grant , o god , that whosoever before this image shall diligently and humbly upon his knees worship and honour thy onely-begotten son , or the blessed virgin , ( according as the image is that is a-consecrating , or this glorious apostle , or martyr , or confessor , or virgin , that he may obtain by his or her merits and intercession grace in this present life , and eternall glory hereafter . so that the virgin and other saints are fellow-distributers of grace and glory with christ himself to their supplicants before their images , and that upon their own merits , and for this service done to them in kneeling and pouring out their prayers before their statues or symbolicall presences . what greater blasphemy and idolatry can be imagined ? ornatur , consecratur , oratur , tunc postremò fit deus : that is to say , the image is pray'd before , but the daemon pray'd unto . there is no more in paganism it self . and yet by the pope's own exposition this is the debitus honor that is owing to the images of the saints . consider the latter end of the last conclusion of the first chapter , and the forms of invocation in the fourth and fifth , as also the eighteenth conclusion of the second chapter . . this is all plain and expresse according to the authority of their church . and that , besides their adoration and praying before th●se images , ( which , considering the postures of the supplicant and the image , is as much praying to them as the heathens will acknowledge done to theirs , ) there are also wax-candles burning before them , and the oblation of incense or perfuming them , feasts likewise , temples and altars to the same saints , and the carrying them in procession , ( which was the guize of ancient paganism , ) is so well known , that i need not quote any authours . and that this is the practice of the roman church jointly and coherently with their worship of images , is manifest to all the world ; and that therefore it is as arrant idolatry as paganism it self , and consequently real idolatry by the third conclusion of the first chapter . and lastly , it is to be noted that the council of trent , naming the debitus honor of images , and not excepting these in known practice then amongst them , must of all reason be conceived to mean these very circumstances , as paganicall as they are , of the worshipping of them . . and the rather , because they do pretend to rectify some miscarriages in the business of images , as any unlawfull or dishonest gain by them , all lascivious dresses of the images , all drunkenness and disorderly riot at their feasts , and the like . which methinks is done with as grave caution against idolatry , as if they had decreed that all the whores in rome should forbear to goe in so garish apparell , that they should be sure to wear clean linen , to be favourable to poor younger brothers in the price of a night's lodging , that they keep themselves wholsome and clean from the pox , and the like ; which were not the putting down , but the establishing , of whores and whoredome in the papacy . and so are these cautions touching images . exceptio firmat regulam in non exceptis . wherefore these circumstances of idolatry being not named by the tridentine fathers in their exception , they are thereby ratify'd . which yet are so like the old pagan idolatry , that ludovicus vives , one of their own church , could not abstain from professing , non posse aliquid discrimen ostendi , nisi quòd nomina tantùm & titulos mutaverint ; that onely the names and objects were changed , not the modes , of the ancient idolatry of the heathen . . if the council of trent would have really and in good earnest rectify'd their church in the point of images , they should have followed the example of that skilfull and famous physician dr. butler , they should have imitated his prescript touching the safe eating of a pear , viz. that we should first pare it very carefully , and then be sure to cut out or scoup out all the coar of it , and after that fill the hollow with salt , and when this is done , cast it forthwith into the kennell . this is the safest way of dealing with those things that have any intrinsick poison or danger in them . see those most wholesome and judicious homilies of our church of england against the perill of idolatry . . and thus much shall serve for the setting out the idolatry of the church of rome so far as it seems to be allow'd by the church it self . but for those more grosse extravagancies , which , though they have connived at , yet they would be loath to own upon publick authority , i will neither weary my self nor my reader by meddling with them . such as the making the images to sweat , their eyes to move , the making them to smile , or lour and look sad , to feel heavy or light , or the like . which does necessarily tend to the engaging of the people to believe and have ●●fiance in the very images themselves , as those consecrations also imply which i cited out of chemnitius , and which that rhyme seems to acknowledge which they say to that face of christ which they call the veronica . which rhyme runs thus : nos perduc ad patriam , felix ô figura , ad videndam faciem quae est christi pura . nos ab omni macula purga vitiorum , et tandem consortio junge beatorum . and with such like blinde devotion do they likewise speak to the crosse : o crux , spes unica , hoc passionis tempore auge piis justitiam , reisque dona veniam . this must sound very wildly and extravagantly to any sensible ear . and yet the invoking any saint before his image for aid and succour , ( the image bearing the name and representation of the saint , ) with eyes and hands lift up to it , is as arrant talking with a senslesse stock or a stone as this , and as gross a piece of * idolatry , though approved of by the authority of the roman church . but i intended to break off before . chap. x. severall important consectaries from this clear discovery of the gross idolatry of the church of rome ; with an hearty and vehement exhortation to all men , that have any serious regard to their salvation , to beware how they be drawn into the communion of that church . . thus have we abundantly demonstrated that the church of rome stands guilty of gross idolatry according to the concessions and definitions of their own council of trent ; that is to say , though we charge them with no more then with what the council it self doth own , touching the adoration of the host , the invocation of saints , and the worshipping of images . but we must not forget , in the mean time , that the crime grows still more course and palpable looking upon the particular forms of their invocation of the saints , and the circumstances of their worshipping their images , and yet ratify'd by the popes , and corroborated by the uncontrolled practice of their whole church : which therefore must in all reason be the interpreter of the minde of the council . so that there is no evasion left for them , but that they are guilty of as gross and palpable idolatry as ever was committed by the sons of men , no lesse grosse then roman paganism it self . . from whence , in the next place , it necessarily follows , that they are the most barbarous murtherers of the servants of god that ever appeared on the face of the earth . for indeed if they had had truth on their side so far , as that the things they required at the hands of the dissenters had been lawfull , ( though not at all necessary ; ) yet considering the expresse voice of scripture , which must be so exceeding effectual to raise consciencious scruples , and indeed to fix a man in the contrary opinions , besides the irrefragable votes of common sense and reason , and the principles of all arts and sciences that can pretend any usefulnesse to religion in any of its theoreticall disquisitions ; i say , when it is so easie from hence , if not necessary , for some men to be born into a contrary consciencious persuasion , it had undoubtedly even in this case been notorious murther in the pontifician party , to have killed men for dissenting from the doctrine and practice of their church . but now the murtherers themselves being in so palpable an errour , and requiring of the dissenters to profess blasphemies and commit gross idolatries with them , which is openly to rebell against god under pretense of obeying holy church , as they love to be called , they murthering so many hundred thousands of them for this fidelity to their maker , and their indispensable obedience to the lord jesus christ , this is murther of a double dye , and not to be parallel'd by all the barbarous persecutions under the red dragon , the pagan emperours themselves . . from which two main considerations it follows in the third place , that , considering the fit and easie congruity of the names of the seven churches and of the events of the seven intervalls ( denoted by them ) to the prefigurations in the visions , there can be no doubt but that by balaam mentioned in the epistle to the church in pergamus , wherein antipas , that is , the opposers of the pope , are murthered , the papal hierarchy is understood ; as it is also by the prophetesse jezebel in the epistle to the church in thyatira , who was also a murtheresse of the prophets of god , and both of them expresly patrons of idolatry , as is manifest in the very text. nor is it at all wonderfull that balaam and jezebel , the one a man , the other a woman , should signifie the same thing . for the false prophet and the whore of babylon in the following visions of the apocalypse signifie both one and the same thing , viz. the hierarchy of rome , from the pope to the rest of their ecclesiastick body . . and what i have said of the vision of those seven churches , the same i say of all those expositions of the thirteenth and seventeenth chapters of the apocalypse , and that of the little horn in daniel ; namely , the words of the prophecies being so naturally applicable to the affairs of that church , besides the demonstration of synchronism , that the weight of those two foregoing conclusions being added thereto , there cannot be the least doubt or scruple left , but that those interpretations are true ; and that the church of rome is that body of antichrist , that mother of fornications and abominations of the earth , that is , of multifarious modes of grosse idolatries , or that scarlet whore on the seven hills , that is also drunk with the bloud of the saints , and with the bloud of the martyrs of jesus . . and that therefore , in the fourth place , in the church of rome the poison exceeding the antidote , there can be no reason that salvation should be hoped for there . it is a sad and lamentable truth , but being a truth , and of such huge moment , it is by no means to be concealed . what god may doe in his more hidden ways of providence , he alone knows . and therefore we cannot say that every idolatrous heathen must perish eternally : but to speak no farther then we have commission , and according to the easy tenour of the holy scriptures , we must pronounce , though with great sadnesse of heart , that we have no warrant therefrom to think or declare any of the popish religion , so long as they continue so , to be in the state of salvation ; and especially , since that voice of the angel which sounded in the intervall of thyatira , saying expresly , come out of her , my people , that ye be not partakers of her sins , and receive not of her plagues ; and the apostle in his first epistle to the corinthians , be not deceived , neither fornicatours , nor idolaters , nor adulterers , &c. shall inherit the kingdome of god. and those of the church of rome are bound to continue idolaters as long as they live , or else to renounce their church ; and therefore they are bound to be damned by adhering to the roman church , unless they could live in it for ever . for he that dies in such a capital sin as idolatry without repentance , nay , in a blinde , obstinate perseverance in it , how can he escape eternal damnation ? . but though we had kept our selves to the apocalypse , the thing is clear in that book alone , ch . . ver . , . where all idolaters are expresly excluded from the tree of life : blessed are they that doe his commandments , ( and one of them , though expunged by rome , is , thou shalt not worship any graven image , ) that they may have right to the tree of life , &c. for without are dogs , and sorcerers , and whoremongers , and murtherers , and idolaters , and whoso loveth and maketh a lie. all these are excluded the heavenly jerusalem , and from eating the tree of life . of which who eateth not is most assuredly detain'd in eternall death . as it is written in the foregoing chapter , that murtherers , and whoremongers , and sorcerers , and idolaters , and all liars , shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone ; which is the second death . what sentence can be more expresse then this ? . but besides this divine sentence against them , they are also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they are self-condemned , or at least give sentence against themselves , while they so freely pronounce that no idolaters are to be saved ; which they frequently doe , to save their own church from the reproach of idolatry . for , because some protestants have declared for the possibility of salvation in the romish church , they farther improve the favour to the quitting themselves of the guilt , from others hopefull presages that by an hearty implicit repentance of all their sins ( even of those that are the proper crimes of that church , ) they may , through god's mercy in christ , be delivered from the punishment . this piece of charity in some of our party they turn to the fencing off all imputation of idolatry from themselves , arguing thus ; that no idolaters can be saved : but those in the romish church may be saved , according to those protestants opinion : therefore those in the romish church are no idolaters . but most assuredly while they thus abuse the charity of some , even by their own proposition they must bring the sentence of condemnation from all the rest upon their own heads , as they have herein given it against themselves , in saying that all idolaters are damned , or that no idolater can be saved . for it is demonstrated as clear as the noon-light , in this present discourse , that the church of rome are idolaters . . and in that of those of our church that say they may be saved upon a sincere and hearty implicit repentance of all their sins , ( wherein they include the idolatries and all other miscarriages which they know not themselves guilty of , by reason of the blinde mis-instructions of their church , ) no more is given them by this then thus , viz. that they are saved by disowning of and dismembring themselves from the roman church , as much as it is in their power so to doe , and by bitterly repenting them that they were ever of that church as such , and by being so minded , that if they did know what a corrupt church it is , they would forthwith separate from it . so that in effect those of the roman church that some of ours conceit may be saved , are no otherwise saved , if at all , then by an implicit renouncing communion with it , which in foro divino must goe for an actual and formal separation from it . in which position if there were any truth , it will reach the honest-minded pagans as well ; but it can shelter neither , unless in such circumstances , that they had not the opportunity to learn the truth , which since the reformation , and especially this last age , by the mercy of god , is abundantly revealed to the world . so that all men , especially those that live in protestant nations or kingdoms , are without all excuse ; and therefore become obnoxious to god's eternall wrath and damnation , if they relinquish not that false prophetesse jezebel , as she is called in the epistle to the church in thyatira , who by her corrupt doctrines deceives the people , and inveigles them into gross idolatrous practices . . thus little is conceded by those of our reformed churches that speak most favourably of those in the church of rome . and yet this little must be retracted , unless we can make it out , that any of that church are capable of sincere and unfeigned repentance while they are of it . for to repent as a thief , because he is afraid to be hanged , is not that saving repentance . but to repent as a true christian none can doe , unlesse he has the spirit of god , and be in the state of regeneration . for true repentance arises out of the detestation of the uglinesse of sin it self , and out of the love to the pulchritude and amiablenesse of the divine life and of true vertue , which none can be touched with but those that are regenerate or born of god. now those holy and divine sentiments of the new birth are so contrary to the frauds and impostures , to the grosse idolatries and bloudy murthers of the church of rome , which they from time to time have perpetrated upon the dear servants of christ , that it is impossible for any one that has this holy sense , but that he should incontinently fly from that church with as much horrour and affrightment as any countrey-man would from some evil spectre , or at the approach of the devil . . he that is born of god sinneth not , saith s. john : how then can they be so born whose very religion is a trade of sin , and that of the highest nature , they ever and anon exercising grosse acts of idolatry ? besides that they are consenting ( by giving up their belief and suffrage to the murtherous conclusions of that church ) to all the barbarous and bloudy persecutions of the saints that either have happened or may happen in their own times , or ever shall happen , by that church ; they become , i say , guilty thereof by adjoyning themselves to this bloud-thirsty body of men , with whom the murther of those that will not commit idolatry with them , and so rebell against god , is become an holy papal law and statute . and therefore , i say , how can any man conceive that those men are born of god who are thus deeply defiled with murtherous and idolatrous impurities , but rather that they are in a mere blinde carnal condition , and uncapable , while they are thus , of any true and sincere repentance , and consequently of repenting of their daily idolatries which they commit , and ordinarily ( to make all sure ) in ipso articulo mortis , and therefore are out of all capacity of salvation while they are members of that church ? as plainly appears both by this present reason fetch'd from the nature of regeneration , as also from the judgement of the romanists themselves touching the state of idolaters after this life , and chiefly from the expresse sentence of the spirit of god in scripture , as i intimated before . . and therefore , in the fifth and last place , it is exceeding manifest how stupid and regardless those souls are of their own salvation , that continue in the communion of the church of rome ; and how desperately wilde and extravagant they are who , never having been of it , but having had the advantage of better principles , yet can finde in their hearts to be reconciled to it . this must be a sign of some great defect in judgement , or else in their sincerity , that they ever can be allured to a religion that is so far removed from god and heaven . . but this church , as the woman in the proverbs , is , i must confess , both very fair of speech and subtil of heart , and knows how to tamper with the simple ones right skilfully . she knows how to overcome all their carnal senses by her luxurious enticements . she has deck'd her bed with coverings of tapestry , with carved works , with fine linens of aegypt . she has perfumed her bed with myrrh , aloes and cinnamon . she entertains her paramours with the most delicious strains of musick , and chants out the most sweet and pleasing rhymes , to lull them secure in her lap : such as those idolatrous forms of the invocation of the virgin marie , and of other saints , which i have produced , of which she has a numerous store . unto which i conceive the prophet isay to allude in that passage touching the city of tyre , representing there mystically the relapsing church of rome : take an harp , goe about the city , thou harlot that hast been forgotten , make sweet melody , sing many songs , that thou mayst be remembred . see synopsis prophetica , book . ch . . . she gilds her self over also with the goodly and specious titles of unity , antiquity , universality , the power of working miracles , of sanctity likewise , and of infallibility ; and boasts highly of her self , that she has the power of the keys , and can give safe conduct to heaven by sacerdotal absolution ; and , if need be , out of the treasury of the merits of holy men of their church , which she has the keeping and disposing of , can adde oyl to the lamps of the unprovided virgins , and so piece out their deficiency in the works of righteousnesse . such fair speeches and fine glozing words she has to befool the judgements of the simple . . but as to the first , it is plain that that unity that is by force is no fruit of the spirit , and therefore no sign of the true church : nor that which is from free agreement , if it be not to good ends. for salomon describes an agreement of thieves or robbers , heartening one another to spoil and bloudshed , and to enter so strict a society as to have but one purse . and therefore for a company of men , under the pretense of spirituality , to agree in the inventing or upholding such doctrines or fictions as are most serviceable for a worldly design , and for the more easily riding and abusing the credulous and carnal-minded , thereby to be masters of their persons and wealth , this is no holy unity , but an horrid and unrighteous conspiracy against the deluded sons of adam . . and for antiquity and universality , they are both plainly on the protestants side , who make no fundamentals of faith but such as are manifestly contained in the scripture ; which is much more ancient , and more universally received , then any of those things upon whose account we separate from the church of rome , which are but the fruits of that apostasie which , * after four hundred years or thereabout , the church was to fall into according to divine prediction . so that we are as ancient and universal as the apostolick church it self , nor do we desire to appear to be the members of any church that is not apostolicall . and for their boast of miracles , which are produced to ratifie their crafty figments , they are but fictions themselves framed by their priests , or delusions of the devil , according as is foretold concerning the coming of antichrist , that man of sin , ( which the pope and his clergy most assuredly is , ) namely , that his coming is after the working of satan , with all power , and signs , and lying wonders . so that they glory in their own shame , and boast themselves in the known character of antichrist , and would prove themselves to be holy church by pretending to the privileges of that man of sin , and by appealing to the palpable signs of the assistence of the devil . for from thence are all miracles that are produced in favour of practices that are plainly repugnant to the doctrines of the holy scriptures . . but now , as for their sanctity , what an holy church they are , any one may judge upon the reading of the lives of their popes and history of their cardinals , and other religious orders of that church of rome ; how rankly all things smell of fraud and imposture , of pride and covetousnesse , of ostentation and hypocrisy ; what monstrous examples of sensuality their holinesses themselves have ordinarily been , of fornication and adultery , of incest and sodomie ; to say nothing of simonie , and that infernall sin of necromancy . but for murther and idolatry , those horrid crimes are not onely made familiar to them , but have passed into a law with them , and are interwoven into the very essence of their religion . judge then how holy that church must be , whose religion is the establishment of idolatry and murther . of the latter of which crimes the holy inquisition is an instance with a witness . and yet that den of murtherers , whose office it is to kill men for not committing idolatry , with the church of rome must needs bear the title of holy. . and for their pretense of infallibility , it is expresly predicted in the apocalypse of s. john , as well as their laying claim to miracles . for as the two-horned beast is said to doe great wonders , and to bring fire from heaven , which two-horned beast is the pope and his clergy ; so jezebel , which is the same hierarchy , is called the woman that gives to her self the title of a prophetesse , whose oracles you know must be infallible . for she does not mean that she is a false prophetesse , though indeed and in truth she is so . and the pope with his clergy is judged to be so by the spirit of god , in that he is called the false prophet , as well as the two-horned beast , in those visions of s. john. and while he pretends himself to be a prophet , even without divine revelation , one may plainly demonstrate that he is a false one from this one notorious . instance of transubstantiation ; which is a doctrine repugnant to common sense and reason , and all the faculties of the mind of man , and bears a contradiction to the most plain and indubitable principles of all arts and sciences , as i have proved above . so that we may be more sure that this is false , then that we feel our own bodies , or can tell our toes and fingers on our hands and feet . judge then therefore whether is more likely , that the church of rome should be infallible , or transubstantiation a mere figment , especially it being so serviceable for their worldly advantages , and they being taken tardy in so many impostures and deceits . so that infallibility is a mere boast . . and now for their sacerdotal absolution , that they can so safely dismisse men to heaven or secure them from hell thereby , this power of their priest is such another vain boast as that of transubstantiation . except a man be born again , he cannot enter into the kingdome of god. and the form of words upon one's death-bed can no more regenerate any one , then their quinqueverbiall charm can transubstantiate the bread and wine into the body and bloud of christ. where the form of absolution has any effect , it must be on such persons as are already really regenerate and unfeignedly and sincerely penitent : which i have shewn to be incompetible to any one so long and so far forth as he adheres to the roman church . so that in this case one aethiopian does but wash another , which is labour spent in vain . there must be a change of nature , or no externall ceremonie nor words can doe any thing . for the form of absolution is not a charm , as i said , to change the nature of things , but onely a ticket to passe guards and scouts , and to procure safe conduct to the heavenly regions . but if by regeneration and due repentance one has not contracted an alliance and affinity with the saints and angels , but is really still involved in the impure and hellish nature , the grim officers of that dark kingdome will most certainly challenge their own , and they will be sure to carry that soul captive into a sutable place , let the flattering priest have dismissed her hence with the fairest and most hopefull circumstances he could . this is the most hideous , the most dangerous and the most perfidious cheat of that church of rome that ever she could light on for the damning of poor credulous souls , that thus superstitiously depend on the vain breath of their priest for the security of their salvation . . and yet they are not content with this device alone to lull men secure in wickednesse , but besides their pretense of singing them out of purgatory by mercenary masses , and pecuniarie redemptions by pardons and indulgences , and i know not what trumperies , they allure men to come into their church as having that great store and treasury of the merits of holy men and women , their works of supererogation , which they pretend to have the keeping and disposing of . so that a poor soul that is bankrupt of her self , and has no stock of good works of her own , may sufficiently be furnished for love or money by the merchants of this store-house . which , besides that it is a blasphemous derogation to the merits of christ , is the grossest falshood that ever was uttered . for these holy men , as they are called , and virgins , were , god wot , themselves most miserable sinners , and died in most horrid idolatries , as dying in the practices of that church ; and he that comes to that church does necessarily become a grosse idolater himself ; besides that he sets to his seal and makes himself accessory to all that innocent bloud , the bloud of those many hundred thousands of martyrs for the protestant truth , which that woman of bloud that sits on the seven hills has with the most execrable circumstances imaginable so frequently murthered . so that a soul otherwise passable of her self would be necessarily drown'd in this one foul deluge of guilt : so far is she from having any relief or advantage by reconciling her self to the church of rome . . wherefore who-ever thou art that hast any sense or solicitude for thy future state and salvation , believe not this woman of subtil lips and a deceitfull heart , and give no credit to her fictions and high pretensions ; but the more she goes about to magnifie her self , do thou humble her the more , by shewing her her ugly hue in the glasse of the holy scriptures . if she boast that she is that holy jerusalem , a city at unity within it self , whenas the rest of the world are so full of sects and factions ; tell her that she is that carnal jerusalem , wherein christ in his true members hath been so barbarously persecuted and murthered , and that the stones of her buildings are no living stones , but held together by a mere iron violence , and the cement of her walls tempered with the large effusion of innocent bloud ; forasmuch as she is that two-horned beast that gave life to the image of the beast , and caused him to decree that as many as would not obey his idolatrous edicts should be slain . this is the power of your unity , which is not from the spirit of god , but from the spirit of the devil , who was a murtherer from the beginning . but the division of us protestants is both a sign of our sincere search after the truth , and a more strong testimony against you of rome , in that we being so divided amongst our selves , yet we so unanimously give sentence against you : your miscarriages and crimes being so exceeding grosse , that no free eye but must needs discern them . . if she vaunts of her antiquity ; give her enough of it , and tell her she derives her pedigree from that great dragon , the old serpent , that is called the devil and satan , that murtherer of mankinde . ye are of your father the devil , saith our saviour , and the works of your father will ye doe . we grant that the visage and lineage of your church reaches even beyond the times of the apostles , the two-horned beast reviving the image of the pagan beast , the great red dragon , by bringing up again his old bloudy persecutions and idolatries . it suffices us , that our church began with the apostles . if she glories in her universality , and in her large territories ; tell her , she is that great city which spiritually is called sodom and aegypt , where our lord was crucified : and that she is babylon the great , the mother of fornications and the abominations of the earth . if she boast of the power of the keys , and of sacerdotal absolution ; tell her that he that is holy , he that is true , he that has the key of david , he that openeth and no man shutteth , and shutteth and no man openeth , that is to say , our lord jesus christ , will never part with these keys to his inveterate enemy , that notorious man of sin , or antichrist . if she spread before thee her goodly wares of mercenary masses , of pardons and indulgences , of the mutuatitious good works of their pretended holy men and women ; or the wealth and externall glories of their church , and varieties of rich preferments and dignities ; say unto her ; that she is that city of trade of whom it is written , that no man buieth her merchandise any more ; and again , alas , alas ! that great city that was cloathed in fine linnen and purple and scarlet , and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls : for in one hour so great riches are come to nought . for her merchants were the great men of the earth , and by her sorceries were all nations deceived . and in her was found the bloud of prophets , and of saints , and of all that were slain upon the earth . . if she would amaze thee with the stories of the wonderfull miracles done by her ; tell her that she is that two-horned beast that doth great wonders , and that deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he had power to doe in the sight of the ten-horn'd beast ; or that false prophet working miracles , and deceiving them that receive the mark of the beast , and worship his image , who together with the beast is to be taken , and cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone ; or lastly , that man of sin and son of perdition , whose coming is after the working of satan , with all power , and signs , and lying wonders . if she would inveagle thee with her pretenses of infallibility ; tell her that she is that woman jezebel , that calleth her self a prophetesse ; or the prophet balaam , that insnared the israelites in idolatry ; and that very false prophet that together with the beast is to be cast alive into the lake of burning brimstone . . and lastly , if she would gull thee with that specious and much-affected title of holy church ; tell her that the spirit of truth in the divine oracles , let her commend her self as much as she pleases , gives no such character of her , but quite contrary , declaring the see of rome to be the * seat of satan , and their church a his synagogue ; the pope and his clergy to be b balaam the son of bozor , who loved the wages of unrighteousnesse , and who was the murtherer of christ's faithfull martyr antipas ; to be that c woman jezebel who calls her self a prophetesse , but was indeed a sorceresse , and a murtherer of the true prophets of the lord ; to be also that d false prophet , that is to be taken alive , and cast into the lake of fire and brimstone ; to be that e great city that spiritually is called sodom and aegypt , where our lord was crucified ; to be f the beast that has the horns of a lamb , but the voice of the dragon , decreeing idolatries and cruel persecutions against god's people ; to be that g babylon the great , the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth ; the woman on the seven hills , that is drunk with the bloud of the saints and with the bloud of the martyrs of jesus ; and , lastly , to be that h man of sin , that notorious antichrist , that opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god or is worshipped , whose coming is with all deceivableness of unrighteousnesse in them that perish , because they receive not the love of the truth that they may be saved . for which cause god sends them strong delusion , that they believe a lie . that they all might be damned that believe not the truth , but have pleasure in unrighteousnesse . as well 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as well all they that love the romish lies and impostures , as all they that invent them , are here plainly declared in the state of damnation . with this nosegay of rue and wormwood antidote thy self against the idolatrous infection of that strange woman 's breath , whose lips yet drop as an hony-comb , and her mouth is more smooth then oyl . and be assured that that cannot be the true holy church wherein salvation is to be expected , which the spirit of god has marked with such unholy and hellish characters , let her boast of her own holiness as much as she will. . and if she return this answer to thee , that this is not to argue , but to rail in phrases of scripture ; do thou make this short reply , that whiles she accuses thee of railing against sinfull and obnoxious men , she must take heed that she be not found guilty of blaspheming the holy spirit of god. i confesse these propheticall passages apply'd to such persons as to whom they do not belong were an high and rude strain of railing indeed , and quite out of the road of christianity and common humanity : but to call them railings when they are apply'd to that very party to whom they are really meant by that spirit that dictated them , is indeed to pretend to a sense of civility towards men , but in the mean time to become a down-right blasphemer against the holy ghost that dictated these oracles . and that they are not mis-apply'd , any impartial man of but an ordinary patience and comprehension of wit may have all assurance desirable from that demonstration of the truth compriz'd in the eight last chapters of the first book of synopsis prophetica ; to say nothing of the present exposition of the seven epistles to the seven churches in asia . . wherefore , o serious soul , whoever thou art , be not complemented out of the truth and an earnest pursuance of thine own salvation from a vain sense of the applauses or reproaches of men , or from any consideration what they may think of thee for attesting or standing to such verities as are so unwelcome to many ears , but of such huge importance to all to hear . for no lesse a game is at stake in our choice of what church we adhere to , that of rome or the reformed , then the possession of heaven and eternall life . wherefore stand stoutly upon thy guard , and whensoever thou art accosted by the fair words and sugar'd speeches of that cunning woman , ( who will make semblance of great solicitude for thy future happinesse , most passionately inviting thee to return into the bosome of holy church , ) be sure to remember what an holy church she is according to divine description ; and that if thou assentest to her smooth persuasions and crafty importunities , thou dost ipso facto ( pardon the vehemence of expression ) adventure thy self into the jaws of hell , and cast thy self into the arms of the devil . god of his mercy give us all grace to consider what has been spoken , that we may evermore escape these snares of death . amen . the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * apoc. . . john , . apoc. . , . chap. . . cor. . . see dr. cudworth's discourse of the lord's supper . de rerum invent. lib. . cap. . ap●c . . . greg●r . ●ranc . ●xic . ●anct . t●t . . kings . . apoc. . . apoc. . , . apoc. . . * synops. prophet . book . c. . sect . . apoc. . . apoc. . . apoc. . . isa. . . apoc. . . john . . notes for div a -e * apoc. . ●● * see divine dialogues , dialogue . sect . . apoc. . . verse . verse . verse . verse . verse . verse . pet. ram. lib. . c. . eccles. . . verse . verse . chap. . v. . apoc. . . matth. . , . apoc. . verse , . verse . verse . verse . verse . luke . , . apoc. ch . . v. . verse . matt. . . verse . verse . apoc. ch . . v. . dan. . . verse . verse . verse . verse . verse . apoc. . . * see if there was not a marie's psalter before , antidote against idolat . chap. . sect . . * this was the institute of pope john . and within the fore-part of the intervall of thyatira . see polydore virgil. de rerum invent . lib. . c. . downham de antichrist . lib. . cap. . verse . verse . apoc. . . apoc. . . apoc. . kings . . king. . . apoc. . kings . . prov. . . kings . . apoc. . apoc. . john . . john . . apoc. . . apoc. . , . kings . . kings . . verse . verse . verse . verse . verse . verse . verse . psalm . verse . apoc. . . verse . apoc. . . john. . . john . . verse . verse . verse . verse . verse . apoc . ver . . cant. . . cant. . . verse . apoc. . and . apoc. . apoc. . , . verse . joh. . . apoc. . . verse . pet. . v. . verse . verse . verse . apoc. . . isa. . . verse . verse . gen. . . verse . verse . . verse . john . . ver . . verse . matt. . . cor. , , . verse . apoc. . , . apoc. . , . apoc. . . apoc. . . apoc. . . notes for div a -e * part . book . ch. . to the . chap. * apoc. . . * apoc. . . rom. . . cor. . . prov. . . pet. . . john . . notes for div a -e exod. . . mark . , . joh. . . concil . trident. sess. . cap. . ca● . . concil . trident. sess. . cap. . cap. . can . . * see paul. fag . upon deut. . . john . . gen. . . joh. . . francise . coster . enchirid. controvers . cap. . concil . trident. sess. . apoc. . . john . , . matth. . . apoc. . . apoc. . . concil . trid. sess. . * part . book . chap. . exod. . , . mat. . . * see ch. . conclus . . chap. . . apoc. . . john . . prov. . , . isa. . . prov. . . * synops. prophet . lib. . c. . thess. . . apoc. . . apoc. . . apoc. . . john . . psal. . . apoc. . apoc. . . john . apoc. . apoc. . a●●c . . apoc. . , . apoc. . . thess. . . apoc. ● . . apoc. . . apoc. . . * apoc. . . a apoc. . . b apoc. . , . c apoc. . . d apoc. . . e apoc. . . f apoc. . . g apoc. . h thess. . prov. . . matth. . . an appendix unto the homily against images in churches, by edm: gurnay bachelour in divinity, and minister of gods word at harpley in norfolk gurnay, edmund, d. . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing g a). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing g a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an appendix unto the homily against images in churches, by edm: gurnay bachelour in divinity, and minister of gods word at harpley in norfolk gurnay, edmund, d. . gurnay, edmund, d. . aut [ ], p. printed by a.n. for j. rothwel at the sun in pauls church-yard, london : . an appendix to gurnay's toward the vindication of the second commandment. reproduction of the original in the magdalene college library, cambridge. eng idols and images -- early works to . a r (wing g a). civilwar no an appendix unto the homily against images in churches, by edm: gurnay bachelour in divinity, and minister of gods word at harpley in norfol gurnay, edmund f the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the f category of texts with or more defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an appendix unto the homily against images in churches , by edm : gurnay bachelour in divinity , and minister of gods word at harpley in norfolk . august . de civit , dei , lib. . c. . vtile est ut plures libri à pluribus fiant , etiam de quaestionibus eisdem . london , printed by a.n. for j. rothwel at the sun in pauls church-yard , . to the honored and judicious sir john hobart ; knight baronet , as also unto the noble and vertuous the lady frances his wife , i humbly dedicate these ensuing endevours in the lord . an appendix unto the homily against images in churches neither an idlenesse nor yet a rashnesse can it be esteemed in any under the government of the church of england to write or speak against the images ; the pronenesse of the times to advance them , making it rather an act of necessity then of idlenesse to oppose them ; and the expresnesse of our church doctrine against them making ●t rather an act of authority then of rashnesse utterly to deface them . how expresse and positive the doctrine of our church is against them , our english homily entitled against the perill of idolatry , abundantly declareth ; and that sufficiently in any of these ensuing parcels therof : as first in these words : to conclude , it appeareth evidently by all stories , and writing , and experience , that neither preaching , neither writing , nor the consent of the learned , nor the authoritie of the godly , nor the decrees of councils , nor the laws of princes , nor extreame punishment of the offenders in that behalfe , nor any other remedie or meanes can helpe against idolatry if images be suffered publikely : libro homil. tom. . homil. . part . . p. . impres . ult. secondly , left wee should think that it excepted only against heathen images , it addeth further in these words : all those names of abomination , which god● word in the holy scripture giveth unto the idols of the gentiles , the same appertain also to our images set up in our churches , and unto the makers and maintainers thereof , pag. . and finally , lest we should think that it did except only against the images of ordinary and inferiour persons , and not against the images of canonized saints and persons of speciall reckoning , it hath a proviso to that purpose in these words : the images of god , our saviour , the virgine , the apostles , martyrs , and others of notable holinesse , are of all others the most dangerous , and therefore of all other , greatest care ought to be had hat none of them be suffered to stand publickely in temples and churches . pag. . on the other side , what a pronenesse there is in the times to advance them this alone may be argument sufficient , in that , notwithstanding the so peremptory determination of our church against them , they bee neverthelesse still retained , and also , for one pretense or other more and more multiplyed and advanced . in this therefore so palpable a schisme betwixt doctrine & practice , my duty binding me , and my judgment serving mee to side with the doctrine , my desire is to exercise my pen as my title imported ; and my purpose is to confine my paines unto the making answer unto only two of those allegatiōs , which use to bee made in the behalfe of church-images , and they shall be these : that images do greatly adorn & beautifie churches . that they furnish the dead with tombes and monuments . for though it also use to bee pleaded in their behalfe , that they are speciall good to give instruction , and also toward the quickning of devotion : yet because wee have already ( toward the vindication of the second commandement ) made particular answers unto those allegations ; we will wholly for this time confine our selves unto those two premised . to the first of them , then , which pleadeth how greatly they adorn and beautifie churches , we answer ; first , that in the prophecie of esay the lord saith thus ; a yee shall defile the covering of thy graven images of silver , and the ornament of thy molten images of gold ; thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth , thou shalt say unto them get thee hence : and in the prophecie of ezechiel wee read thus ; b as for the beautie of his ornament , hee set it in majesty : but they have made the images of their abominations , and of their detestable things therein . secondly , it is a necessary condition in an ornament that it be without scandall ; but images in churches are not without scandall : therefore images in churches are no ornaments . touching the ground of this our argument , namely that ornaments must not bee scandalous , it is no more then the generall rule of justice doth require . for life must always be preferred before beautie , as c life is more worth then meat , and the body then rayment : whereupon it fairly follows that the things which indāger life , especially the spirituall life , must rather bee forborne then the things which serve only for beautie & ornament , procured therewith : yea , the apostle esteems it a d warn of charity if a man had not rather sometime part with his food then be the cause of another mans sinne . now that images are scandalous things in churches , it is many wayes apparent . for ( first ) there being an unreasonable pronenesse in the heart of man to sinne by images , even to the bowing down unto them , and committing spirituall fornication with them ; it must needs be that the setting up such kind of sights in those kind of places where persons that are spiritually incontinent are allowed ( yea and bound ) to repaire , will prove a palpable incensment and provocation thereunto ; especially when as such kinde of pollution is apt to be committed through the meere aspect of the outward eye , and that without the privity or knowledge of the neerest slander by . surely if incontinent persons should be invited unto such kind of houses as had every corner stuffed with bagages for such purposes , and such also as were not able to say thē nay ( for such kind of things wear sure are images ) were it not a most ready way to provoke such kind of iniquity ? secondly wee reade in the prophet ezechiel that when e the people of israell did see the images of the caldeās portrayed up●● the city wals , girded with gir●les about their loynes , exceeding ● dyed attire like princes , &c. ●●ey entred into the bed of love with them : and therefore when our people shall see the images , not of infidels and profane persons , but of most holy saints , in like manner pourtrayed , and that not up●n common wals , but upon he walls and most eminent places of holy temples , is it not to be feared that spirituall dotage will insue thereupon even to the entring into the bed of love with them ? for admit that the dotage of those isralites which the prophet report of was not upon the images but upon the persons which those images did represent : yet when such persons were once dead , or so far distant as that their lover● could not enjoy them , will not the dotage in the end rather double it selfe upon the image then any way expire● or abate ? thirdly , to attribute unto images the name and title of church-ornaments , is a ready way to conferre holinesse upon them : for if the temple be holy , shal not the ornaments of the temple challenge holinesse ? scandalous therefore it must needs be , if not plainly idolatrous , to give so much as the terme of church-ornaments 〈◊〉 ●ages . fourthly , to ●mages in our english ●es must needs bee ●ous , in a speciall man●nely , for that the au●ed doctrine of our ●h is most palpably ●ned by the meanes . ●e booke of homilies , in church images are ●emptorily determined ● , not only is at this ● full force , but also a● fourescore yeeres since ●●mpiled , and ever since ● beene , both by convo●●s confirmed , by parlia● established , and by vi● from time to time in●ed , and finally by a su●●e edict ( not twenty yeeres since ) prescribe● pattern and boundary fo● preachers & minister ; ● are not they , then , culp● of capitall scandall w● will contrary those hom● within the bounds of ● government where ● have bin so long authori●● or is there any thing 〈◊〉 scandalous ( not to say 〈◊〉 pestilent and impious ) the ● contemne authoritie ? ●ly , they are in an other re● most scandalous within ● bounds of england , nam● for that they afford a pro●●ble plea for recusancy ; ● may not the recusant 〈◊〉 plead ; it is impossible t● void idolatry in those ch●●here images are suffe● the judgment of your ●ly ; but in your english ●●hes , images are suffe●●●erefore it is impossible ●id idolatry in your ●h churches , by the ●ment of your homily : ●ave wee not then good ● to refraine your chur● sixtly , the lord ex● tels us , that his ●hall bee called the house of● ; but what more of●●e unto prayer then the ●●tes of the outward eie ? ● therefore shutting ( or ●ng ) their eys when they ●e to be fervent at that ex● ▪ for the invisible god though otherwise never s● lawfull , being bound to giv● place to scandall , wherewit● nothing but necessitie ( against which there is no remedie ) i● able to dispense . indeed i● there were any kind of necessitie for the setting up image in churches wee grant tha● scandalousnesse were no suff●cient exception against them ▪ but who ever pleaded any kind of necessity for any kin● of images in churches ▪ for wee may both sing an● say , heare , preach , and pra● ( which are all the churc● duties of necessitie requirable ) not only without the helpe of images , but als● without the helpe of our ve●● but also without the help of our very eyes and though we were stark blind . secondly , ●dmit there were a necessitie ●f outward ornature in a temple , yet is there no ne●essitie of images for such a ●urpose : witnesse that so beautifull temple of solo●on which had not an image to be seene ( though in those typicall times ) in that part of the temple where the congregation assembled . wit●esse also our booke of homilies , which though it admits of no images in chur●hes , yet hath it a speciall ●omily intitled for the comly ●dorning of churches . we conclude therefore , since images are so scandalous sights in churches , and no kind of necessity does inforce the setting up of any kinde of images in churches ; therefore they must not bee set up in churches for meere ornament sake ; all ornature though never so lawful being a matter of redundance , and not of necessitie ; things being apt to be sound and substantiall , though beautifull they be not . a third argument against the allegation shall be this ; all ornature is a kind of beauty ; and al beauty is h flos formae resultantis in materia , ●hat is , such a kind of flourish 〈◊〉 does result out of the fulnes and ●●perabundance of inward vigour : ●t being otherwise no true beauty indeed , but only a kind of jay-like , furtive , and ●surped weed ; or like the ●uddy tincture of a face which proceeds not from the ●ife and spirit of the face , but only from some outward fal●ification and infection upon the face . if therefore these images bee any true ornaments unto temples they must proceed from the peculiar nature and property of a temple . but doe they so ? can they grow out of no ●tones but the stones of temples ? can they hang upon no walles but the walles of temples ? yea , what walles so common , rotten , or prophane , but images can bee content to be playstered upon them , hang'd and drawne round about them ? they being indeed the very sperme and spawne of places most contrary unto temples , namely , the temples of idolaters ; quorum ( as a i father saith ) quanto sunt ornatiora templa , & pulchriora simulachra , tant● plus majestatis haebe●e creduntur : that is , whose temples the more adorned they are , and the more goodly their images , the more majesticall they are supposed . the scripture also testifying as much when it tels us , how the heathens boasted that their images did excell the images of jerusalem and samaria : as also when it ●ermeth idolatry l a wel-favord ●arlot , it gives us to understand , that meer outward and forged beauty is a robe most proper to idolatry : whereof our homily gives a faire reason when it saith , m that idolatry being of her self an old , foul , ●lihy and withered harlot , and understanding her lack of true ●aturall beauty , doth paint , and deck , and tire her self with gold , ●arle , stone , and all kind of pre●ious jewels , the better to please and intice her foolish lovers , &c. fourthly , it is a necessary condition unto an ornament , that it be delightfull in the eyes of those for whom it is intended . for all ornature and beautie is a kinde of excellencie ; and excellencie does suppose and require a degree of goodnes more then meere necessitie does inforce . now there being three degrees of goodnesse , namely , lawfulnesse , profitablenesse , and delightsomnesse ; and the two first being of necessity required in every thing that is admitted into a temple ; it follows that nothing can be esteemed for an ornament in a temple , unlesse it hath that third degree of goodnesse , namely , delightsomenesse . and that the two first of these degrees namely lawfulnesse and profitablenesse are of necessitie required in every thing that is endured in a temple , it is easie to declare . for first , unlesse a thing be lawfull , it is not in any place to bee indured , whether in a temple or without the temple ; inhonestum & impossibile being esteemed all one , in morall estates . and then in the second place unlesse it bee also profitable it must not be allowed in a temple , even by that rule of scripture which appointeth that n all things in churches be done to edifying : though our homily doth not attribute unto images in churches , so much as profitablenes , when it saith , o such decking of temples hath nothing profited the wise , but greatly hurt the simple and unwise . and therefore the things which have not attained unto that third degree of goodnesse , namely delightsomnesse , cannot be reputed amongst ornaments within the compasse of churches . it is true indeed and easily granted , that images in time and place are delightfull enough ; the scripture also acknowledging so much when it upbraideth the people by their pleasing pi●tures ; they being pleasing ●ights in the eyes of flesh and ●loud , even when the beholder does not know what they mean ; — rerumque ignarus imagine gaudet , saith the poet : but the things which are delightfull at one time are not of necessitie delightfull at all times ; and in all places . for such we know ●s the force of time , place , persons , and other circum●tances , as that the things which at one time are never ●o delightfull , may at another time be most hateful by their means . yea , things that are never so lawfull , may by the power of circumstance bee found unlawfull and intolerable . surely to hire a farme , prove oxen , marry wives , &c. are no doubt in themselves lawfull enough : but when the redeemers marriage cannot be celebrated unlesse those kinde of businesses bee omitted : then doe they become culpable of impietie and high cōtempt . likewise to receive money , vineyards , olive-trees , &c. are actions in themselves lawfull enough ; but when the minding such matters might have hazarded the conversion of that syrian prince , was it then a time for gehezi to receive money , vineyards , olive-trees , & c ? before therefore that it be granted that images are delightfull sights in churches , it must first be resolved whether the circumstances doe concurre which are necessary toward the making a thing delightful , or not : and amongst those circumstances one of them is this ; seasonablenesse and sutablenesse . for though necessitie does not stand upon it , whether a thing be in season or out of season ; yet pleasure and delight are of that ticklenesse and delicacie as the unlesse the season concurres it will not take : q a tale out of season being like musique in mourning ; and candidus in nauta turpis color ; a faire face though in it self so pleasing a sight , yet in a sayler , or in a person whose profession it is to wrastle with the weather , it is thought an ill-favoured sight , and no better then a ring of gold in a swines snowt : as on the contrary , dustie faces in souldiers ( r non indecoro pulvere sordidis ) when they returne from the chace of their enemies , are sights not uncomely . say then ; are images such seasonable sights in churches ? or are they so sutable unto such kinde of places ? things which are so discrepant from the nature of god , and so apt to provoke the jealousie of god as wee have formerly noted , are such things so seasonable sights in the houses of god ? things which doe so distemper and confound prayer , are such things so seasonable in the houses of prayer ? surely when a man after a weary journey hath taken up his lodging , and is falne into a sweet sleep ; if some of his neighbors should come and awake him , only to bid him good morrow , were that a seasonable good morrow ? or while a man is waiting to put up a petition unto his prince , if some of his companions should come and call him to a may game , were that a seasonable motion ? even ●o likewise when all the powers of the minde lie couching at the doore of the heart , whereby to attaine some glance of the invisible god ; shall those be seasonable sights which doe allure those powers and spirits an other way , even to the doore of the outward eye ? but wee expect it will bee objected , that howsoever unto some kind of dispositions , such kinde of sights will not be acceptable , nor worthy to be reckoned amongst church ornaments , yet because our vulgar , and little ones , doe not stand upon such nice respects , as seasonablenesse & sutablenesse , but are apt to be taken with their delights wheresoever they find them : therefore toward the better alluring such little ones unto gods houses , it may stand with good discretion and policie to set forth those houses with such kind of sights , and consequently to esteeme those kind of sights amongst temple ornaments : whereunto wee answere that such kind of persōs as are not able to discerne betwixt the houses of prayer and the houses of pleasure , are too little to bee reckoned amongst gods little ones ; the lock and not the key being ordained for such manner of persons ; for if the guest was worthily thrust out of the wedding feast , which refused to put on the wedding garment ; how much more worthy shall they be , to be thrust out of the spirituall feast , which not only neglect to put on the spirituall garment , but also resort unto those feasts of purpose , that they may the more li●entiously wallow in their sensuall garment . yea , meer naturall men have been more divinely minded then so ; and have apprehended a far more noble beautie then that which the outward eye 〈◊〉 capable of : it having been ●n ancient proverb amongst ●hem , hesperus and vesperus , ●e . the morning and eve●●ng star are nothing so beau●●full as vertue ( yea , but one ●f the vertues justice ) was : ●nd that virtute nihil for●s●us , nihil amabilius , nihil ●chrius , &c. and concern●●g the beauty of a temple , ●●e of their poets could say ; sed nil dulcius est bene quam munita tueri edita doctrina sapientum templa serenà . another also of them af●●ming that the things which their gods most delighted in were compositumjus , fasque anim● sanct que recessus mentis , & incoctum generos● pectus honesto : in comparison whereo● ( saith hee further ) all you● golden and glorious offering are no better then veneri donatae à virgine puppae . and therefore if infidels and heathens are able to imagine a kinde of beautie which goes farre beyond all outward eye-beauty : shall it bee supposed that any of the believers ( the least whereof must be supposed far more divine●y minded then the ripest un●eliever ) are so apt to be al●red unto the temples of the only and invisible god ●y the means of gay images ? they whose wits are so su●ernaturally pointed as that ●hey can see incomparably more glory in the poore at●●re of paul ministring the gospell , then in the royall robes of aaron ministring the gospel : they that can see beauty in the very feet of those ●hat bring glad tydings ; though the feet especially of messengers have no more beautie ●n the judgement of the outward eye then the dust under our feet : they that esteeme x a holinesse for beauty b righteousnesse for clothing ▪ c good works for decking , and the d gathering of the nations unto the gospell , as the principall ornament of gods church ; is it like that such will affect the places where such kinde of beauty , clothing , decking , ornaments and tydings are freely offered , any whit the more for the gawdinesse of images ? but , admit it were a suppose not intolerable that some of gods true little-ones should so little consider the nature and intent of those kinde of places as to affect them any ●hit the more for such kinde ●f gazements sake ; yet were ● wisdome in governours to ●ndescend thereunto ? yea , ●●ere naturall governours ●ve also in that respect bin ●iser then so ; witnesse those ●lacedemonians which would ●t suffer any kinde of ima●es to stand in their senate-●ouse , only for fear lest they ●●ould grow remisse in their ● will consultations by the ●ceans ; witnesse also those ●uropians , which not only ●●●mitted no images to stand ● their temples , but also ●ould scarce indure the com●on light to shine into them : ●hereof the deviser of that common-wealth gives this honest reason ( the goodnesse of his wit making him forget the qualitie of his religion ) f quia parciore & veluti dubia luce intendi animos & riligionem putab●nt . i. e. because they thought that the more obscure and sparing the outward light should be , the more inten● would their ●●ndes and religion be . sh●llow therefore and preposterous is that policie● ( admit it were never so lawfull ) which thinks it good to glaze and play ster our churches with such kinde of eye delights toward the better winning and alluring our little-ones thereunto ; it being ●●deed no better then as if a ●rse , when shee hath taken child , to weane , should wish ●e mother of the child to ●●me and keepe with the ●●ild whereby she might the ●etter still the child : for ●ough by that meanes shee ●ay hap to still the child , ●t shee may be sure by that ●eanes never to weane the ●hild . an i so likewise when god hath appointed nurses ●kings shall be thy nursing fa●●ers , &c. ) toward the wea●ing of his children from ●ensual and transitory ( not ●nly from wicked ) delights ; ● those nurses shall fraught ●is nurseries ( his temples ) with such kind of delights as sensuall and childish minds are best pleased withal : they shall by that meanes frustrate● the intent of those places , & make them become nurseries of those fancies , which their peculiar office is to weane them from . yea such kind of policie , how much is it better then as if the husbandman should sow his field with all manner of weeds ( as red-weede bowd-weed , carleekes , cockle , darnell , &c. ) only because the red , and blew , and gay coloured blooms of those weeds were far more pleasing sights in the eyes of his little children , then the common grasse-co●ored corne use to be : but ●●e husbandman is wiser ●en so ; and does not meane ●o poyson his field and starve ●is family toward the plea●ing of his foolish children ; ●ut rather when hee sees his ●●eld so overgrown with such ●●mentable gaudinesse , doth ●esolve upon some other plot ●o bestow his seede & tillage ●pon : and so the greate ●husbandman , the lord of all ●hings , when hee shall finde ●is temples in like manner ●wer grown with ( far worse ●eedes then the weeds of the ●ield ) the entertainments of ●ensuality , and provocations ●f jelousie ; is it not to be feared that he will withdraw his presence from such kin● of places ? yea the very wildernesse is like to prove hi● chiefe repose in such case● for thither he hath promise● to allure his people and ther● to speake kindely unto them ▪ and there if hee may find either one true jacob , which could say of his casuall sleeping place , k this is none othe● but the house of god ; or one fervent elias , which in a cav● remayned jealous for the lord of hoasts ; or one honest hilarius which could say , l male ecclesiam dei in tectis aedificitsque veneramini , &c ▪ ●ive mee dungeons , give mee ●ults , caves , and desarts , ra●●er then such kinde of temples : ●ven with such will hee ra●●er settle himselfe and shew ●●em all his glory , then with ●ultitudes of fooles which ●nd glaring upon walls , and ●●ok the cleane contrary way ● his approach . our next and last argu●ent against the allegation , ●●all be this ; the life , and ●orme , and property of a ●emple does consist in no●hing so much as this ; that ● be a place exempted and 〈◊〉 part from common uses ●nd common delights : but the ornature which images ●e afford , serves only for a kind of common delight , and such as the ignorant , idle , an● superstitious , the carnall , sensuall , and idolatrous are affected and pleased withall , a● well as the best ( not to say incomparably more : ) therefore the ornature which images doe afford does rathe● profane and vilifie , evacuate confound , and nullifie a temple , then any way adorn it , o● become any true beautific●tion unto it . touching the ground o● this our argument , namely that the exempting and se●ting a place a part from common uses and common delights does most properly giv● life and forme , and constitution unto a temple , it must ●sse for sound and good , un●● some other qualification ● condition ( rite , respect , or ●eremony ) be found , where● the life & form and quid●●tie of a temple shall more ●culiarly consist . it is true ●●deed the respects & rights ●hich consist in dedication , ●onsecration , sanctification , 〈◊〉 are attributed unto tem●●es ; as also the ministery of ●●e word and sacraments , ●e exercises of holinesse ●●d enjoyment of gods ●●esence are found in tem●●es ; and finally goodlinesse ●●d magnificence are conspi●ous in the fabrick and stru●●ure of temples : but if all these conditions , qualifications , and respects may be found attributed and imparted unto other things and places as well as temples then must they not bee esteemed of sufficient force t● give life and forme , and specification unto a temple . fo● first concerning dedicatio● we find how every m new bui●● house in the time of moses la●● was also allowed it ; and ● the time of nehemiah , whe● the city was repaired , the very n walls thereof are sai● to be dedicated with singings an● thanksgivings upon the tops of the wals even to the prison-gate an● dung-gate , &c. secondly , concerning consecration ( if that ●espect does differ any thing ●rom dedication ) neither is ●hat also a ceremony pecu●●ar unto temples ; for even ●easts also and fields , and ●ossessions , and the persons of ●en are in the scripture said ● bee consecrated , and the ●ing at any time so consecra●d is termed no lesse then ●actum sanctorum deo , ( in ie●●es translation ) . likewise ●oncerning sanctification , so ●●re is that respect also from ●●ing peculiar unto a tem●le ( though that of the three ●ay bee thought the princi●all ) as that our ordinary ●eat is afforded it ; for it ( saith the scripture ) is sanctified by the word and prayer . moreover ( and fourthly ) as neither dedication , consecration , nor sanctification , so also neither is the ministery of the word and sacraments of sufficient force to give peculiaritie and specification unto a temple : for we also find in the scripture , how we are allowed ( yea , appointed ) p to talke of his word , even when we walke by the way , and in on● dwelling houses , and when wee ly● downe , and when we rise up : also the sacraments in the time of that law were ordinarily administred in privat houses ; and our saviour not only ●●d partake the passeover , but 〈◊〉 ordained his last supper ●n ordinary dyning cham●●● the r law of england●o at this day allows us the ●e of prayers and psalms in 〈◊〉 private houses , and in ●●●aln cases ( in case of di●●●nce ) gives them the privi●●ge of temples : againe , ●ther are the exercises of ●●inesse , nor the enjoyment ● gods presence , peculiar ● to temples ; for in all ●●ces his presence may bee ●●joyed , ſ even though wee 〈◊〉 down to hell wee shall finde 〈◊〉 there , or if we remayne in the ●●id sea , we shal find him there : ● if we be clapt up in the dungeon wee hope to finde hi● there . so likewise innocenc● and holinesse are not peculia● unto temples , nor is the excluding wickednesse and unholinesse the proper office o● a temple ; every place ● the world being bound ● do as much , and no place ● the world being allowed ● commit ungodlynesse in . f●nally concerning outwa●● sumptuousnesse and magni●●cence of building so far is the also from giving propriet● and distinction unto templ● as that not only the palac● of pride and vanity , but al●● the houses and temples o● idolatry , have also excelled and gloried therein ●itnesse that temple of ●●esus , which cost all asia●●o hundred yeeres to build ● ; and which had above sixe ●ore pillars , whereof every ●e had a severall king to ●aintain it : witnesse also that ●emple u of belus , which is ●●ported to be duorum stadio●● amplitudine , and that it ●ed a tower in the middest ●f it , crassitudine simul & alti●dine stadii ; and so tower ●●on tower , usque adoctavam : ●itnesse also that temple of ●●zicus ( a citie swallowed up ●ith an earthquake ) the pil●●rs whereof were x singulae 〈◊〉 singulis lapidibus , and yet quinquaginta cubitorum alitudine , and quatuor ulnarum crassitudine : witnesse also that temple which , belike , was somtime in our britain ; which had it not excelled for outward structure and magnificence , the people would never have adored it as a god as y seneca reporteth : yea so farre is such outward sumptuousnesse from giving peculiarity unto a temple , as that one of the ancient fathers forbears not to say that z such kind of sumptuous temples are most likely to prove the seats of antichrist . and wherein then is the propertie , forme , and quiddity of a temple so likely to consist , as in this respect and condition which we plead for ; namely , in being a place exempted and set apart from common uses and delights ( not only from wickednesse ? ) which propertie as it was never found in any places but in temples , so also where it alone is found there is nothing esteemed to bee wanting unto the nature and substance of a temple : and so much the patriarch jacob may bee sufficient to teach us , when hee called a plaine a stone the house of god , though it had nothing belonging to such a house , but only his setting it apart from common uses , and confining it to bee a mention and remembrance of his god ; the church of england also at this day , acknowledging as much in effect when it esteemeth all those places for temples , which time out of mind have beene exempted and set apart from common uses , though whether ever they had any dedications or consecrations , or other then such as were superstitious & idolatrous it be unknowne . for as the nature of a sabbath doth not consist in this , that it affords holy exercises , for so also other dayes must do ; or in this that it debarreth wicked actions , for so also other days must doe ; or in this , that it affordeth much vacant time , for so also other dayes may do ; but only in this , that it debars all manner of work : so may we wel conceive that the nature of a temple does consist , not in this , that it is a place dedicated , consecrated , &c. for so also other places and things are apt to be ; nor in this , that it affords gods word or gods presence , for so also other places may doe ; nor in this that it excludes ungodlinesse & wickednesse , for so also every place is bound to doe ; but only in this that it is exempted from common businesse and common delights : as also our saviour did sufficiently declare , clare , when hee forbad the carrying of b vessells through the temple , and paul , when hee permitted not so much as c eating and drinking in such kinde of places ; such kind of actions being notwithstanding both lawfull and necessary , and having no exception against them but this , that gods houses might be supposed liable & applyable unto common uses and businesses by such meanes . for as those kinds of actions and businesse which doe well become the weeke dayes are said in the scripture to d defile & pro●hane the sabbath day : so ●●y those kind of actions & ●elights bee found to pro●hane and nullifie a temple , ●hich other places can take ●o exception against . upon ●hich conclusion and ground 〈◊〉 fairely follows , that the ●●tting up of images or any ●hing else in churches , only ●o please the outward eye , ●nd to afford a common kind ●f delight ( the ornature which images afford when it ●s at the best being no better ) ●s rather a prophanation , pollution , and prostitution unto those kind of places then any perfection or beautification . but very like it will bee pleaded against us , that by this rule all outward beautification whatsoever within the compasse of a templ● ( though it be not by images shall be excepted against ; yea the beauty of king solomon● temple shall bee found un●● warrantable by this rule ; for no doubt all sorts of people as well the heathens , ungodly , and sensuall , as the holy and spiritually minded were affected therewith : whereunto , christian reader , wee are desirous to answer a few words : and first concerning such outward beautification in general ; wee may shortly answer , that when the intent of it is , only to cover unsightlines and outward eye-sores , 〈◊〉 is to bee esteemed as a ●ranch of necessity , and a ●reventing of scandall , rather ●hen an ornament intended to ●elight and please the out●ard eye : even as the e co●ering of our uncomely parts ●ith the more comelinesse is not ●o please the beholders , or to ●ake our uncomely parts ex●ell those parts which are ●ore noble , but only to keep the more noble parts from disdaining the societie of those inferiour & lesse comely parts , and least otherwise there might spring up f a schisme in the body . and as we admit beautifull and rich-attired persons into our temples , not because they are so adorned and so beautifull ( for their beauties doe rather offend then edifie in those kind of places ) but only because either their beauties must bee admitted , or their persons withall excluded : so our admitting of such kinde of outward beautifications into our churches , may well be , not for the delighting and pleasing of outward eyes , but only because unlesse they be admitted , offensive and scandalous unsightlines must remayne uncovered . now in the second place concerning that speciall beautification of king solomons temple , we ●nswer , first , that not only the analogie of religion , ●ut also the body of the fathers , doe agree with our ● homily in this , that the ●umptuousnes of those times was only a figure to signifie , & not an example to follow : even as the bloomes of the spring , which though they may well signifie what kinde of fruit may be expected , yet are they no examples for the rest of the seasons to follow . secondly , the indulgence of god might thinke good to entertain that minoritie of his people with some plausible shadow of a temple g untill the true temple , ( h the almighty god and the lambe ) should bee revealed . thirdly , the waywardnesse of that minority which ( as our i homily saith ) was allured with nothing so much as with goodly gay things might somewhat be of force with the lord to yield a little more unto thē then was originally intēded : even as their like untractablenes extorted the bil of divorcement from him , which from the k beginning ( our saviour saith ) was not so : or as it moved him to yield unto their burnt offerings and sacrifices which ●ay well be thought to have ●d no better beginning ; the ●ord thus speaking of them ● the prophet jeremy , i spake 〈◊〉 unto your fathers concerning ●●nt offerings and sacrifices , 〈◊〉 only i commanded them , say●●g , obey my voice : and the ●rophet esay plainly saying , ●ho hath required these things ● your hands ? fourthly , it was ●●ly one such sumptuous ●emple and that also ( as the ●cripture saith ) built n in seven ●●res , which was allowed ●●to that whole nation , even 〈◊〉 that time of minoritie : ●heir synagogues and o●●ories being no more sumptuous to the outwar● eye ( as far as can appear o● of any writer for divers hu●dred yeeres after that la● began ) then their dwelli●● houses , and for along ti● were no other places . fifth when david first motion● the building of that templ● the lord not only thus a●swered him , thou shalt 〈◊〉 build mee an house , but al● further expostulates with hi● in these very words ; o whe●soever i walked with all isa● spake i a word unto any of a judges ( whom i commanded feed my people ) saying , why but you me not an house , & c ? it 〈◊〉 indeed , hee afterward ●e them directions about 〈◊〉 building of it ; but what ● that ? for so also he gave ●m directions how they ●●uld bee ordred under a 〈◊〉 , and yet the scripture ●●h , that hee gave them a 〈◊〉 in anger : from whence ●o ( sixtly ) wee may argue , 〈◊〉 as the lord did take ●●eir desiring of a king to be ●ind of q rejecting him from 〈◊〉 their king , and so gave 〈◊〉 a king in anger ; so it ●y be interpreted , that hee ●ewise did take their desi●g of a temple to proceed 〈◊〉 a kind of unwillingnes to have him for their temple , and so did give them ● temple in some degree o● displeasure . againe , we fin● in scripture how hee ofte● checks them by their r temple , and by their ſ dotage upo● the beauty of it ; ringing ● also as often in their eare ▪ how that t heaven was his se● and earth his foot stool ▪ what how will yee build mee ? which te● assoone as saint steven in h● apologie did but once me●tion , he presently brake for into that indignation , u y● stif-necked and of uncircumcis● hearts and eares , yee have alwa●●●sted the spirit of god , & c. ●oreover , and in the eighth ●ace , had the lord made any ●ch special reckning of that ●emple of solomon would he we suffered it to be so razed 〈◊〉 destroyed , and that for ●●ers hundred yeeres before ●●t law expired ? for wee ●de in the scripture when 〈◊〉 arke of god was taken 〈◊〉 the enemies , though it was ● thing most easie to be car●● about and rifled , yet did 〈◊〉 providence of god so ●iraculously preserve it , as ●hat they that tooke it durst ●ot so much as touch it , but ●ith all the honour and cost they could devise did send back again . and therefo●● had the lord so delighted that beautiful temple woul● hee have suffered it to be ● destroyed , and that when ● without any such miraculou● assistance ( as the ark needed it might have bin preserved ▪ it being also ordinary wit● the very heathens to preserv● temples , even when the● preserved nothing else ; an● much more , no doubt , woul● they have preserved tha● temple which in those day was the mirror of the world and was then in their own possession , had not some degree of gods indignation a●●ost it made way to their ●●d rage , toward their ma●g no difference betwixt ●nd the city , but with the ●●fused stroake of fire and ●ord to destroy them both ●●gether . moreover , had the ●●rd been so delighted with 〈◊〉 beautie of that temple , ●w is it that the second ●emple , which was built by ●ods own appointment , and ●hich was so often promi●●and called for , did not●ithstanding come so farre ●ort of it ? the scripture ●●inly saying of it , that it 〈◊〉 as nothing in comparison of it : which president alo● may be sufficient to perswa● us , that the beautie of the 〈◊〉 temple was rather offensi● then otherwise , even in t●● time of that nonage ; the pe●ple by meanes thereof bei●● brought to linger after , and ● doat upon outward things and to catch at the shadow i● stead of the substance , the shell in-stead of the kernel and the templum domini , i● stead of templum dominum , a● experience did prove . we● conclude therefore , that the beautie of solomons temple is no sufficient exception against the ground of our argument , which was this , that all outward beautification in tem●●●s , which is intended only ● please the outward eye , is ●egree of converting tem●●es unto cōmon uses , which ●e peculiar office and nature 〈◊〉 a temple excludes ; the ex●ellencie of temples being ●ore or lesse , as they are ●ore or lesse exempted from ●ommon uses , whereby ( if it ●ere possible ) nothing but god himselfe in those kinde ●f places might bee thought upon : the lord only indeed being the life and spirit of all temples ; yea , and not only so but also being ( hee hath expresly said ●t ) the very z temple it selfe ; there being no other temple that ca● contain the catholike spou● of christ but only hee . an● that only temple must ever● member of christ long afte● and delight in ; live and dwel● in day and night : and tha● they shall never doe as long as they are so wedded unto visible temples , and the beauty thereof . it is true indeed , this temporall life does need ( at least can make use of ) materiall and visible temples , we grant : but considering how prone the nature of man is to relapsing , and to lownd after the beautie of old jerusalem , when we should be ready to enter into ●●e gates of the new , and with ●ose israelites to seeke gil● , and beersheba , rather then ●e lord ; and with those car●all jews ( as b austin termeth ●hem therein ) to interpret the ●eauty of the second temple ●rophesied of by haggie ) to ●onsist in some glorious re●auration of a visible tem●le : it therefore concerns the ●eople of god when they in●end to build any materiall temples , to set them forth with such gravity and simpli●itie as may give the commers unto them to under●tand , that the beauty of a temple is not like the beauty of other places , nor to bee judged of with that kinde of eye where with wee judge of other buildings ▪ at least they must not be so indulg●nt unto weake and ( supposed ) little-ones as to set forth their temples with the common , grosse , and scandalous ( not to say idolatrous ) beauty of images , which the allegation pleads for , and against which onely wee have hitherto ( and that we hope sufficiently ) excepted . the other allegation in the behalfe of these church-images which we have specified in the beginning is this ; that they furnish the dead with tombs & monuments : whereunto we answer , that the things which are especially scandalous must not be suffered in churches , but only in case necessity , as we have alreadie declared . now that such kinde of monuments are scandalous sights in churches , it cannot be denied : it being easie to observe through the course of the times that the ordinary originall of idols hath beene from sepulchres , and such kinde of monuments . and the scripture gives us a faire warrant so to think when the lord sayes , that , he will cast their carcasses upon the carcasses of their idols ; for other carcasses then such dead bodies as were interred under their idols , their idols could not have : and it was the usuall course amongst the ancient heathens first to erect altars over their dead , and then to build temples over those altars , and then finally , to make their dead the gods of those temples . moreover , the reason why the lord would not have the d burying place of moses to bee knowne , is agreed upon by all divines to be for the preventing of idolatry . and therefore if the meer burying place ●f a saint , and that in the ●ildernesse , be so apt to be●et an idoll , how much more ●ill it be fitted for such a pur●ose when it shall bee in a ●emple , and withall shall ●ave the image of the saint ●rected upon it , and that so ●loriously and sumptuously ●s that if men had a desire to ●ake a god of it , they could ●ot doe more . thirdly , there ●eing a speciall pronenesse in the hearts of men to magnifie ●heir fore-fathers ( e mortuos ●aitatur vanitas vulgi magis ●●am vivos ) and to esteem most highly of those which lived in the former times ; partly out of an envy against the presen● times ( f virtutem incolmem ● dimus , sublatam ex oculis quaer●mus invidi ) and partly becaus● the imperfections of the present times are more in sight how can it bee otherwise like but that the images of those so admired ancients , wil● draw admiration and forbidden respects ? especially after on●e the mosse of antiquity is growne upon them ; antiquitie ( as a g father saith ) being of force to make even errours acceptable ; & whereinto ( as h another saith ) men thinke it a point of impiety to ●nquire : and can wee then ●ake question but that such ●inde of monuments must ●eeds bee most scandalous ●ights in churches ? now in the second place , that there is 〈◊〉 necessitie of such kinde of monuments in those kinde of ●laces ( necessity only being of force to dispense with scandals ) it will easily bee granted . f●r first , the only ●ntent and use of those monuments is to doe an honour ●nto the dead ; whereas honour , though it bee never so sound and good , is not a matter of necessitie ; the scripture telling us that the multitude of those which shall bee admitted into the state o● blisse shall be such , as i no ma● can number ; and therefore i● not so much as their persons can bee knowne , much lesse can their names and fames bee so great upon earth as to have distinct monuments erected upon them . secondly , such kinde of monuments may bee erected in other places as well as temples , and that more obviously & conspicuously ; sepulchres & graves ( we are sure ) having beene extant before any temples were known . thirdly , there are other courses more apt to continue the remembrance of the ●●ad , then those kind of mo●●ments ; namely , inscripti●●s & epitaphs : for by such ●nd of expresssions , the truest , ●●d noblest , and most inward ●●ts of dead are apt to be 〈◊〉 more lively and properly forth ; the tooles of car●s and pensils of painters ●ing able to describe only ●●eir outsides , and so much of ●●em as fools and unworthy ●●rsons ( yea , stones or lumps ● clay ) may excell or resem●●e them in : whereas the pens ● the muses are able to flou●●●h out their most hidden ex●●●lencies , and imprint their ●●●tues with such durable ●haracters as shal make them able a thausand yeers after to say , as the poet did truly divine of himselfe when hee said , k exegi monumentum ●re perennius , regalique situ pyramidum altius . and as another of this kind could say : l certior in nostro carmin● vultus er●t : casibus his nullis , nullis delebilis annis vivet : apelleum cummorie●ur opus . fourthly , meere naturall men have made no reckoning of these kind of monuments ; witnesse that grecian prince , which would not suffer so much as his picture ( in his life time ) to be taken ; an● that for this worthy reason , because hee would be known by nothing but his acts : witnesse also hee that gave his emperour this counsel ( maecenas to augustus ) n ne●er to suffer any images or temples to be erected unto him ; because ( saith hee ) if you rule well , the whole world will be your temple , and every city a monument and basis of your glory ; but especially specially witnesse that whole common-wealth of those ancient o indies , which would never suffer any sepulchers to be erected over their dead , because they thought no man worthy to be remembred any longer , then during the remembrance of his vertues : which so sound and impartiall judgment of theirs , the providence of god ( who loves always to requite sound judgement wheresoever hee find it ) did requite with another vertue like unto it ; for so the same author does further report of that nation , that they were never knowne to tell a lie ; his nefas est ( saith ●e ) falsi quicquam pro vero dice●● ; neque indorum quisquam ●●quam , in iudicum , qoud men●tus esset , vocatus est : that so , ●●ch as scorned those kind of ●●ayses which could not bee ●nd but by falsifications and ●ounterfeit images , might be ●equited with such a speciall ●ellowship of the truth ( ne●er to be taken with a lie ) as ●ever any nation before ●hem , or after them , attained ●nto . and shall then the christians ( so incomparably ●raced of god above those ●●mes ) be so liquorous or desi●●ous of those kinde of com●on , painted , pybald , & scan●●lous monuments which heathens and meere natural nations have thought so unworthy of ? especially when as the lord hath promised them another manner of remembrance ; for thus saith the prophet malachie , p a book of remembrance was written before him , for thē that feared the lord , and that thought upon his name . finally it is the great decree● of god that the bodies of his servants ( though they be never so holy and worthy ) should be sowne in corruption , though they shall rise in incorruption ▪ &c. sown in dishonour , though they shall rise in honour : and there●ore to set forth those bodies 〈◊〉 such pompous and glori●us manner while they are ●nder the doome of corrup●●on and dissolution in the ●rave , is little lesse then a ●inde of resistance unto mor●ality , and reluctation against ●hat great decree , as also a ●inde of falsification unto the ● state of the dead , besides ●hat provocation unto the di●●ine jelousie and stumbling ●nto posterity which generall experience hath found to in●sue thereupon . and so , without further adoe , and left we goe beyond the scantling of an appendix we will here make an end . only christian reader before i dismisse you , i have a little request to make unto you , and it shall be this ; that whereas i lately in a little booke did shew the insufficiencie of divers reasons which use to be made in the behalfe of images , and in the end therof did intimate that there were yet other allegations of that kinde which deserved likewise to bee excepted against : my request is , that if i once again and the third time shall publish something to that purpose , you bee not unwilling to make some gentle construction of my so often comming about so common a point . for it was not at the first ( nor yet is it ) my in●ent to handle the point ac●ording to all the dimensi●ns of a common place , but ●nly to answere obiections : ●nd obiections having no mu●uall dependance one upon ●nother , but being apt to pro●ed from divers and distant , ●nd even contrary quarters , ●hough wee should make as ●any severall commings , and ●eturns , and books as we meet ●ith severall objections , it might be without any inter●●ption unto our matter , and ●ll one to the reader , and in ●ome respect also the better ●or both writer and reader . for the lesse is written at onc● the more easily it is read , an● the more thorowly perused ▪ whereas if much bee written at once , the readers leisur● ( perhaps also a deske and a chaire ) must be expected ▪ but for my part i plainly professe it , that it is no such politike consideration which moves me to write so little at once , but plaine and right downe necessity ; my reach and reading not serving mee to write much , and my fidelity to the truth not suffering mee to hold my peace . and though like enough i may hap to go in but the brand of a bawling curr by the means , 〈◊〉 the barking shawlt which ●ble to discover a thief , and ● not able to worrie a ●epe , may bee as fit for the ●●●pherds purpose as the best ; ● so the little fingers are ● full unto the body , as well the greater limbs ; and our ●iles manus , may ( with that ●●norian cripple ) depile the ●mish traine by a haire at ●●e , when the strongest arm one , single tugge shall never ● it . finally , it is the com●andement of god , that eve●● soul should serve him with his might ; and therefore ●●ey that have but little abili●●●s , must not bury them , or ● ashamed to pr●sent them to the view and judgement o● the master builders : wh● though perhaps they sometime find them not usefull fo● their purposes , yet may they think good to pronounce tha● blessing upon the authors ▪ thou hast bin faithful in litle ▪ also the lord himselfe shall be somewhat the more honored by the means ; the abundance of his gifts and graces the better appearing , when some of them be judged to be redundant , and to spare . and so christian reader , for the present i take my leave , and untill our next meeting i commend you to the grace of god . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- a esay . . b ezech. . c matth. . d 〈…〉 e ezech. . , . &c , 〈◊〉 . . tim. hom. . h plotia . en. . . i lacters . . ● . esay . l nah●m . m tom. . ●●mil . p. . n cor. . o tom. . homi● . . p. . esay . . . q ecclesiasticus . r flacc . ●re● . lib. . pers. sat. . cor. . x esay . a psal. . b ● . c tim. . . d esay . . 〈◊〉 . f europ , ●● . ● . esay . ioh. . hosea , . . k gen. . . l contra an●r●t . quid in parietes insanitis , &c. m deut. . . n nehem. . . 〈◊〉 . . . p deut. . . ●uk . . . r eliz. . . ſ psal. . ●●n hist. n. . . u herod . l. . x dio 〈◊〉 . lib. . y sen. de morte claud. z hilarious contra au●ent . a gen. . . b mark . . . c cor. . d exod. . . e cor. . f verse . g tom. . hom. . p. . h revel. . . i parte prima . k mat. . . 〈◊〉 . . . esay . . n king. . . o chron. . . ●●ea . . q sam. . r ier . ſ ezech. . . t esay u acts . sam. . . 〈◊〉 . . . z revel. . amos . . b august . de civit. dei . . levit. . d deut. . . e aug. f flacc . g hieron. in prol. super iob. h lact. . . i revel. . . k horace carm. . . l valer. mart. . . plutarch de agiselao . n dio cass. lib. o arrian . lib. . p mal. ● . . a discourse of the use of images in relation to the church of england and the church of rome in vindication of nubes testium against a pamphlet entitled the antiquity of the protestant religion concerning images, directed against some leaves of that collection. gother, john, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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"publisht with allowance." reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng gother, john, d. . -- nubes testium. pelling, edward, d. . -- antiquity of the protestant religion. church of england -- customs and practices. catholic church -- customs and practices. idols and images -- england -- early works to . protestantism -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse of the use of images : in relation to the church of england and the church of rome . in vindication of nubes testium . against a pamphlet entitled , the antiquity of the protestant religion concerning images , directed against some leaves of that collection . publisht with allowance . london , printed by henry hills , printer to the king 's most excellent majesty , for his houshold and chappel . . a discourse of the use of images : in relation to the church of england and the church of rome . in vindication of nubes testium . the factious and unchristian temper of our age has so unhappily spread it self thro' all ranks of men , that even those , whose business ought to be the advancement of piety , have not escap'd it 's malignant influence . and this they evidence too clearly to the world , whilst they shew themselves so industrious in multiplying the number of many needless contentions in the church , instead of endeavouring to lessen and abate them . this is the misfortune of him , who undertakes to assert the antiquity of the protestant religion concerning images , in answer to a dozen leaves of nubes testium : who because he is a profess'd and virulent enemy to catholics , seems resolv'd to contradict and ridicule , in a strain of drollery more becoming the stage than his coat , every thing they believe and teach , tho' it be the very doctrin of his own church . and like a blind combatant strikes at all before him , without distinction of friend and enemy , with a have at all . at this game plays this undertaker ; whose only care being to write an answer in full , answers , and condemns even those practices , as are allow'd and approv'd by his own church ; and in this new method of controversie spends the greatest part of his twelve-penny pamphlet : so that tho' he pretends to be a son of the church of england , yet whosoever considers , how often he strikes that church in the face , must needs question the legitimation , and necessarily conclude , that 't is uncertain what church he is of , whilst the only thing certain is , that he is no papist . this whole matter , as to his needless multiplying of controversies , and opposing the doctrin and practice of the church of england , as well as that of the church of rome , i 'll shew briefly in declaring , what the church of rome and england teach concerning , . the historical use of sacred images . . the commemorative use of images . . the respect and honor due to images . in all which if it be made appear that the two churches agree , there will need but little more , to prove this answerer a trisler , whilst he so laboriously sets himself against both ; and at the end of all , says nothing to the purpose . . as to the historical vse of images , 't is the profess'd doctrin and practice of the church of rome , to have the pictures and images of holy things and passages both in houses and churches , for the instruction of the ignorant in the knowledge of the history of both the old and new testament ; that so they may be acquainted with those sacred persons of patriarchs , prophets and apostles , and be inform'd of the wonderful works wrought by god in mans creation and redemption . this appears in the council of trent sess . and in the catechism ad parochos part . . de invoc . sanc. par . . both which agree , that holy pictures and images are made , to inform the people of the history of holy writ , and that for this end they are set up in churches and other places . this same historical vse of holy images is conform likewise to the doctrin and practice of the church of england , as is evident in mr. montagu's appeal to caesar , who declaring the church of england's own , proper , true and antient tenets , ( ep. ded. to the king ) such as be without any doubt or question , legitimate and genuine , such as she will both acknowledge and maintain for her own , in this book authoris'd and publish'd by express order of king james and charles l. and approv'd as containing nothing in it , but what was agreeable to the doctrin and discipline establish'd in the church of england ( ib. ) says expresly , c. . that images were improv'd unto an historical vse in st. gregory 's time , and then adds ; had the church of rome gon no farther in practice or precept , than that which st. gregory recommends , our church ( says he ) i suppose ( for so our doctrin is ) would not blame them , nor have departed from them about that point . and agen chap. . doth the english church condemn the historical or civil use of images ? it do's not ( says he ) in practice ; all the world knows that ; nor yet in precept or doctrin , that i know . and at the end of the same chapter , he says , images may be had and made — ut ornatui sint , ut memoriae , ut historiae ; for ornament , for commemoration , and for history ; and that they may be made for such ends , no law of god forbiddeth , says our gamaliel , pa. . ad apol. bel. from whose words , in a book so authentic , and approv'd by two kings , heads of the church , 't is beyond question , that the historical vse of images is agreeable to the doctrin and practice of the church of england . and this do's most evidently appear to any , that will but put his head into any church of this communion , where presently moyses , and aaron shew themselves to the beholder , and let him know the concern they had in those commandements , which they there guard betwixt them . this may be seen with great advantage in the church at the savoy , where besides these two saints of the jewish law , the four evangelists have their place in full proportion between the side windows , with st. peter , and st. stephen , and the twelve apostles in twelve niches on the front of the gallery . but above all , the new church in st. james's in the fields commends this practice in a rare piece of workmanship , where the hand of the artist has set forth to the life upon the font , the history of original sin , and it's cure in the water of baptism . adam and eve stand beneath , confessing the guilt of that sin , for which infants are brought thither to be cleans'd . round the bason is seen christ under the hand of the baptist in jordan , authorising the institution of that salutary laver : and over it is an angel , as it were descending to move the waters , and to signifie that the efficacy of that sacrament is from above . then if you turn towards the altar , in one figure is represented the institution of the blessed sacrament at the last supper : the very same which is over the altar at his majesties chappel at whitehal , and for the very same intent , viz. a pellican feeding her young ones with her blood ; to signifie what christ gives to the faithful , his children , in the sacrament , that he feeds them with his blood. much more may be seen in cathedral and collegiate churches of this kind , not only in relation to the old , but new testament , even the crucifixion of our saviour , but especially in the new common-prayer-books , interleav'd with pictures . ly . as to the commemorative vse of images , 't is receiv'd and approv'd in the church of rome , as 't is explicated in the council of trent above cited , where 't is said ; that the use of holy images is beneficial to the people , because by them they are put in mind of the benefits and blessings receiv'd from christ ; and by seeing the wonderful miracles wrought by the power of god , and the exemplary lives of the saints , they are excited to give god thanks for such favors , to love him , and compose their lives according to the exemple of such holy men. the same is declared in the catechism ad parochos , ut sup . where the parish priest is directed to inform the people ; that holy images are plac'd in churches , to put them in mind of the divine mysteries and blessings , that so they may be more zealous and attentive in the love and service of so good a god. and that by beholding the representations of the saints , they may be admonish'd , to conform their lives to such examples . thus teaches the church of rome . the church of england likewise agrees with her in the same doctrin and practice ; allowing of images , as helps to piety , and for the affecting the minds of the beholders with pious cogitations , and encouraging them to a vertuous and exemplary life . this is most apparent in the injunctions given by king edward vi. to his clergy and ministers , wherein they are order'd to instruct the people in their circuits , that images serve for remembrance , whereby men may be admonish'd of the holy lives and conversation of them that the said images represent . which is the very doctrin now mention'd in the council of trent and catechism ad parochos . this mr. montagu explicates more at large , in his book call'd a new gag , &c. where treating of images , he says to the papists : images have these uses assign'd by your schools — the instruction of the ignorant , the refreshing of history , and exciting devotion : you and we also give unto them these . and a little after , the pictures of christ , the blessed virgin , and saints may be made , and had in houses , set up in churches . — the protestants do it , and use them for helps of piety . in his appeal to caesar likewise he thus delivers the sense of the church of england in this affair , c. . our strictest writers , says he , do not condemn or censure st. gregory for putting upon them ( images ) that historical use of suggesting unto , moving or affecting the mind even in pious and religious affections : for instance , in remembring more feelingly , and so being empassion'd more effectually , with the death , blood-shed and bitter passion of our saviour , when we see that story fully and lively represented unto us in colors , or work by a skilful hand . and i know not the man that is made of human mold , but when he readeth on this ( painted ) book , his tragical endurances for man , will reflect upon himself , and his own soul and conscience , with a lively apprehension of man's sin , god's love , christ's endeared charity , in undergoing these unknown sufferings for our sake . thus this eminent author most feelingly explicates the pious use of holy images , as proper for the suggesting good thoughts , and inflaming the soul with most christian affections , in order to the love and service of god. in this the reader may behold , how little difference , or rather how great an agreement there is between the legitimate and genuin doctrin of the church of england , and the church of rome , as to these two first points mention'd , viz. the historical and commemorative vse of sacred images . now when a member of the church of rome has endeavor'd to shew , that this doctrin as to the historical and commemorative vse of holy images is agreeable to the antient church , as is done in nubes testium ; who could ever expect , that any member of the church of england , much less a divine , should appear , bidding defiance to such doctrin , with endeavors to shew the practice of it to be heathenish , heretical , and but a popish invention ? could a man think , that any church of england divine would take so much pains to abuse and ridicule his own church ? certainly he must be either very ignorant of what his own church teaches ; or very blindly malicious against the church of rome , that to expose her , should not care what mischief he did his own mother church . but thus it happens sometimes , when men are guided by passion instead of truth and reason ; 't is impossible to avoid these absurdities , when such bitter spirits take pen in hand , who look no further in answering , than to contradict their adversary , right or wrong . and how far this answerer has done this , 't will be not amiss in this place to consider . st . then he pretends to shew , pa. . that the first making of pictures among christians proceeded partly from the example of some heretics . this bolt he shoots against the papists : but will not any reader presently reflect , that if pictures in churches , be not a christian institution , but the corruption of heretics ; that the church of england , for all the pictures they set up in their churches , follow not christ and his apostles , as they pretend , but the invention of heretics ? and what credit is this to his church ? ly . he asserts ib. that the making pictures among christians had it's origin principally from the fond inclinations of those , who being converted from heathenism to christianity , retain'd still an old relish and love of those superstitious ▪ practices , to which they had been accustom'd so long . is not this to let the person of quality , to whom he writes , know ; that the church of england , in using and allowing sacred pictures of christ , his apostles , &c. ( as is shewn above ) in houses and churches , follows not only an heretical abuse , but likewise the superstitious practices of heathens ? ly . he says , that there was no such thing , pa. . as the vse of images in the primitive ages . which is to inform his reader , that the church of england , as to this point of images , is faln from the christianity of the primitive times ; and that she stands in need of a reformation . ly . he shews pa. . that the having pictures in churches , is contrary to an express canon of the council of eliberis , held an. . by the fathers of the primitive church . in which he condemns his own church for contradicting the positive decrees of so antient a council . ly . from the example of an antient bishop renting a veil or hanging , whereon was the image of christ , he declares , pa. . in the words of the bishop , such pictures to be contrary to the authority of the scriptures . which is plainly to tell the world , that the use of hangings , such as have christ , or his saints represented on them , as may be seen in many houses , in cathedral and collegiate churches , are all contrary to the word of god. these are some of the severe reflections he makes upon his own church , while he 's blindly knocking down popery . who could desire a better condition'd antagonist than this , who is so good-natur'd , as never to strike at his adversary , but he gives himself a blow over the face at the same time ? has not he fairly defended his own church , while he thus exposes her under the guilt of being heathenish , heretical , going contrary to the primitive church , to councils and scriptures , which is the blackest of that dirt , he has done his best to cast upon the church of rome ? hitherto the reader has seen the doctrin of the church of rome and of england , as far as concerns the two first points , viz. the historical and commemorative use of holy images ; and how this worthy answerer , with some wrested and misapply'd passages of antiquity , strikes most rashly at both churches ; not caring , so he can but overthrow the church of rome , what other church , tho' his own , falls with her . now we will consider the third point , which is of the honor and respect due to these images of christ , &c. and as to this , the church of rome teaches , that the images of christ , &c. ought to be kept , especially in churches , and due honor and veneration given them : not for that any divinity or vertue is believ'd to be in them , for which they are to be worship'd ; or that any thing is to be asked of them , or any confidence to be placed in them , as was done by the heathens ; but because the honor shewn to them is referr'd to the prototypes , or things represented by them : so that by the images we kiss , and before which we kneel , we adore christ and reverence his saints , whom the said images represent . so the council of trent delivers this doctrin , sess . . the like is shewn in the catechism ad parochos , ubi sup . and the whole meaning of it is nothing more , than what was given at large by leontius bishop of cyprus , who flourish'd an. . that is , above a thousand and threescore years ago ; who thus makes his apology for the christians against the jews , who charg'd them with the breach of the second commandment , in giving honor to images . the pictures and images , says he , of the saints are not ador'd amongst us , like gods. for if i worship'd the wood of an image , as god , i might as well do the like to any other wood : if i honor'd the wood as god , i would never throw it into the fire , when the image is once disfigur'd . — as therefore he that has receiv'd a commission from his prince , and kisses the seal , dos not respect the wax , the paper or the lead , but gives the honor to the king ; so we christians , when we shew respect to the figure of the cross , do not honor the nature of the wood , but the sign , the pledge , the remembrance of christ ; through this beholding him , who was crucified on it , we respect and adore him . and as children , full of a dear affection to their father , who is absent from them , do kiss with tears , and with all tenderness embrace his stick , his chair , his coat , which they see at home ; and yet do not adore these things , but express their desire and honor they have for their father : just so do all we faithful honor the cross , as christs staff ; the most holy sepulcher , as his chair and couch , the manger and bethleem as his house , &c. not that we honor the place , the house , the country , the city or the stones , but him that was conversant amongst them , who appear'd in our flesh , and deliver'd us from error , christ our lord ; and for christ we honor those things , which belong to him , describing his passion in our churches , in our houses , in the streets , in images , upon our linen , in our chambers , upon our cloths , and upon every place , to the end that having these continually before our eyes , we may be put in mind , and not like thee ( o jew ) forget our lord and god. as you therefore expressing a veneration for the book of the law , do not honor the paper or ink of which 't is compos'd , but the word of god contain'd in it : so i , shewing reverence to the image of christ , do not adore ( no , god forbid ) the wood or the colors ; but having an inanimate representation of christ , by this seem to be possess'd of , and to worship christ himself . as jacob having receiv'd the party-color'd and bloody coat of his son joseph , kiss'd it , full of tears , and put it to his eyes ; not doing this for any love or honor he had for the coat ; but by this seeming to kiss joseph , and hold him in his arms : so all christians , holding or kissing any image of christ , of his apostles or martyrs , do the like to christ himself , or his martyrs , in the affection of their souls . by all which 't is evident , that all the honor and veneration paid by catholics to any picture or image of christ or his martyrs , is only to express the love and honor they have for christ and his martyrs ; and that in thus doing , they no more commit idolatry , or make gods of those pictures , than that woman is disloyal to her husband , who in affection to him , respects and kisses his picture ; than that subject is a traytor to his prince , who honors his portraiture ; or than all those , who pay a reverence to the chair of state , for the relation it has to the king , make a king of the chair , in so doing . this then is the doctrin and practice of the church of rome . the church of england seems to concur with the church of rome in all this point . this may be gather'd partly out of the ecclesiastical canons agreed to an. . in the first year of king james i. where can. . 't is said , that the holy ghost did so honor by the mouths of the apostles , the very name of the cross , that it did not only comprehend even christ crucified under that name , but likewise the efficacy of christ's death and passion , &c. in which words this church acknowledges , the giving honor to the name of the cross to have been the practice of the apostles , as they were inspir'd by the holy ghost . and that the name of the cross , was not only to put them in mind of the person , whom they were to worship ( as a modern doctor says of the name of jesus , ) but that the holy ghost did by the apostles , honor the very name it self . spiritus s. per apostolorum ora , ipsum crucis nomen usque adeo honoravit . and in honoring that name , did honor christ crucified ; christum ipsum crucifixum sub eodem comprehenderet . which is the very practice and sense of catholics , both as to the name of the cross , of jesus , and of pictures ; names or words being pictures to the ear , as pictures are words to the eye . but it comes nearer our case , what is added in the same canone o. honor ac dignitas crucis nomini acquisita , etiam & signo crucis , vel ipsa apostolorum aetate ( neque enim contrarium ostendi potest ) existimationem peperit honorificam . the honor and esteem shewn to the name of the cross , did produce even in the age of the apostles , an honorable esteem likewise for the sign of the cross ; neither can any thing contrary to this be prov'd . what can be plainer , than that according to this canon , 't is the sense of the church of england , that the primitive christians were taught by the apostles , not only to honor the name of the cross , but likewise the sign of the cross ? and certainly , if according to this church , the apostles taught their followers , to honor in their hearts and souls the sign of the cross , it can neither be contrary to the apostles , nor this church , to do so now , and to express this honor outwardly , which they are thus taught to conceive inwardly , and entertain in their hearts . 't is an absurdity sure too great , to fall upon the church of england , thus absolutely to approve the affection of honor and esteem towards the sign of the cross in christians hearts , as both a christian duty and an apostolical doctrin ; and then afterwards , to condemn the same honor and affection of the soul , as idolatry and superstition , when 't is express'd outwardly , either in words or gesture : for how is it possible , that what is apostolical in the heart , should , by being express'd outwardly , become idolatrous ? this doctrin is deliver'd more expresly by mr. montague , who in his book call'd a new gag , thus declares the express tenet of catholics and of his own church , p. . you say the pictures of christ , the blessed virgin and saints , must not have latria ; so we. you give them dulia ; i quarrel not the term , tho' i could . there is a respect due unto , and honor given relatively to them . if this you call dulia , we give it too . let practice and doctrin go together , we agree . nay he shews farther , 't is impossible to keep or set up the pictures of christ or his saints , without having a reverence and honor for them , in due kind . hear him in his own words , in his appeal to caesar , c. . but it has distasted some ( says he ) that respect and honor should be given unto them ( images of christ . ) strange it should displease any , that can approve of any , be it but a civil use of them . i cannot tell ; unless men would ins●●ntly have them pull'd down in all places , demolish'd , stamp'd to powder , whosesoever , whatsoever , wheresoever . the setting of them up , suffering them to stand , using them for ornaments , for helps of memory , of affection , of rememoration , cannot be abstracted , to my vnderstanding , from reverence and honor simply , in due kind . can a man have the true representation of his prince , parents , patrons , &c. without awe , respect , regard , love , reverence , moved by aspect , and wrought in him ? i profess my imperfection , or what they will call it , it is so with me . unco impacto in latrinas , in gemonias , in malam crucem , the pictures , statues , paintings , representations , of christ , the virgin , apostles , martyrs , holy men and women ; unless the very having and preserving of them , do in some sort imply respect , regard and honor done unto them , without offence justly given , without scandal , or inclination to impiety . then he urges the truth of this doctrin with the words of junius . junius , says he , was no papist ; not in your opinion , i hope . he in his animadversions upon bellarmin de imaginibus , says , hoc nemo nostrvm dicit , non esse colendas , nec ullo modo . suo modo coli probamus , velut imagines ; at non religioso cultu , qui aut superstitiosus est , aut impius ; nec cùm aliorum scandalo , sive cultus separatus sive conjunctus cum eorum cultu intelligatur , quorum sunt imagines . none of us say , that images are no ways to be worship'd . we prove that they are to be worship'd in a way peculiar to them , as images , but not with a religious worship , which is either superstitious or impious : neither to the scandal of others , whether the worship be understood the same , or different from that which is given to the things represented by them . thus this learned man delivers and defends the doctrin of his church in relation to the images of christ and his saints , against the arguments of some informers , which he thinks to be no other than puritans , and at best , some fvriovs ones of his own church , or singvlar illuminates , as he terms them , ib. c. . and now what great difference here in this point between the two churches ? the council of trent says , that images of christ , &c. ought to be set up in churches , and dve honor and veneration given them . the church of england ( by mr. montague ) says , that the images of christ , the blessed virgin mary and saints , may be set up in churches ; respect and honor may be given them in due kind ; the using them for helps of memory , of affection , of rememoration cannot be abstracted from reverence and honor simply , in dve kind . the catechism ad parochos says , these images are set up in churches , ut colantur , that they may be honor'd or worship'd ; that is , in due kind . the protestants say ( by junius ) none of us deny , but they may be honor'd or worship'd in their kind : nay more , we prove , they are to be worship'd in some manner , that is , as images . both churches then agree , that sacred images may be set up in churches ; that a respect , honor and reverence is due to them , in their kind ; and both concur in terming this honor or reverence , cultus or worship , i. e. in it's kind , suo modo . junius expressing it due , velut imagines , as they are images , the council of trent , because they represent christ , &c. which is upon the very same reason and ground . besides this , 't is agreed by both churches , that this reverence shewn to these things , is founded purely upon the relation they have to god , and is terminated finally upon him . this as to the church of rome , appears from what is already quoted out of the council of trent : and as to the church of england , from the words of montagu above mention'd . and from bishop jewel , who ( in rep. ag . hard. ) says ; we worship the sacrament , the word of god , we worship all other things in such religious wise to christ belonging . and then afterwards giving the reason : the sacraments be ador'd ( says ▪ he ) but the whole honor resteth not in them , but is passed over from them to the things signified . which is the very relative honor mention'd so often by catholic divines . and this divinity is found likewise in some modorn church-men , as dr. stillingfleet , who ( in his def. ag . t. g. pa. . ) says , that altho' no irrational or inanimate being be capable of that real excellency , to deserve any honor from us for it 's own sake ; yet such things may have a relation to matters of so high a nature , as to deserve a different vsage and regard from other things : and this afterwards he terms a reverence , and , if i may so call it , a religious respect to sacred places and things . in which words , tho' there 's some mincing it ; yet it delivers in some manner the whole doctrin of catholics . the two churches thus agreeing in the lawfulness of placing images in churches , and that an honor , or reverence , or even worship in it's kind , is necessarily due to them , as they serve for helps to piety ; of affection or rememoration , and have relation to god. the answerer of these leaves of nubes testium , lets fly at all this , like one of montagu's fvriovs ones , or singvlar illvminates . he runs it down , under the name of image-worship ; and is sure , with this very word alone , so far to prevail upon the ignorant and vulgar at least ( with whom , by his loose arguing , he seems chiefly concern'd ) as to gain their votes , in crying down the papists for idolaters ; and then his business is done . upon this strain he runs to the end of his pamphlet , proving that image-worship is contrary to fathers , to antiquity , to councils ; image-worship , image-worship , is all the cant : but never tells , what this image-worship is ; and never reflects , that his own church is for an image-worship too . thus unhappily in the midst of dust and noise he manages the controversie with the papists , without ever stating the question , or declaring what the papists hold , unbecoming a scholar ; and multiplying many needless contentions , unbecoming a christian . if he had examin'd the doctrin of his own church , and understood what catholics teach , he would have soon discover'd the vanity of this engagement ; and found , that after so much bustle upon this matter , there 's but little more in 't , besides fighting about names and words ; and that however tolerable this may be in a school for a logic dispute , 't is unworthy of a divine , who pretends to be a preacher of the gospel of peace . 't is already here made out to any unprejudic'd considerer , that , according to the doctrin of protestants , especially those of the church of england , 't is impossible to separate even the historical use of holy images , from a respect and reverence which necessarily follows them : much less can they serve as helps to piety , for the exciting devotion , and bringing to mind the persons represented , but they force from the beholders an interior love and honor ; so that , as 't is impossible , for a good subject to have by him the picture of his prince and of a traytor , without being differently affected in his soul towards them , even in the very same manner , as he is to the persons they represent . so neither can a faithful and good christian , behold the pictures or other representations of christ , of judas , of mahomet , but his soul will be differently mov'd towards them with love , respect , honor , veneration , on the one side ; with indignation and contempt on the other , as he finds himself affected to the persons represented by them . thus far is acknowledg'd by protestants , and may be gather'd from what is above cited out of montagu and junius . catholics say the same , and so cannot be censur'd or condemn'd for this . what then is their crime ? the charge urg'd against them is , that they shew this same honor and veneration outwardly to these holy images of christ , the apostles , &c. they kiss them , pull off their hats , they bow , they kneel , burn tapers , incense , and pray before them : this is the crime , this the image-worship and idolatry of the catholics . and here , in their behalf , and to bring this voluminous controversie into a narrower compass , i must ask of the answerer ; if it be lawful for protestants and catholics to have an interior respect , honor and reverence for holy images , as appears evidently confess'd above ; how comes it to be so vnlawful and abominable for catholics to signifie and express outwardly this same respect , honor and reverence , which is so commendable for all christians , both catholics and protestants , to have inwardly in their souls ? certainly , that honor and reverence , which in the heart is christian , cannot but be christian in the expression : and 't is very absur'd , to think a duty can become idolatry by professing it . if a christian has a greater reverence in his soul , for the book of the holy scriptures , than for any other book whatsoever , may not he lawfully express this reverence by kissing it ? if the woman in the gospel , respects and honors in her heart the hem of our saviours garment ; is the kissing that hem , any more idolatry , than was that affection and reverence she had in her soul towards it ? if a christian has a respect and reverence even for the house of god , or church , above other houses , that are not dedicated to his service ; may not he shew this respect , by vncovering his head ? if a christian honors the communion-table above other prophane tables ; may not this honor be exteriourly profess'd , by setting candles on it , and plate , and adorning it with hangings , and then bowing to it , without a crime ? if a christian reverences and honors in his heart the name of jesus , or of the cross , as the church of england says the apostles did ; can it be idolatry outwardly to profess this same honor , by bowing or bending the knee ? and if he respects the sacrament , may not he shew this exteriorly , by receiving it kneeling ? and if these exterior professions and acknowledgments of the interior respect , honor and reverence that is due to these things , may be thus commendably shewn , by kissing , vncovering the head , by tapers , ornaments , bowing and kneeling , without any abomination in the sight of god , or just scandal to our neighbor ; why may not the like interior respect and honor , acknowledg'd due to holy representations of christ or his saints , be profess'd outwardly by the same visible expressions of respect and reverence : especially since what is done to all these things , is upon no other account , than the relation they have to god , and as appertaining to him and his service ? neither let the answerer think to take sanctuary , in calling this veneration shewn to pictures and images of christ , a worship , as an image-worship : for however this may work upon the mobile and unthinking crowds , and fill their heads with a notion of idolatry ; yet every man of sense and unbiass'd judgment knows , that this word worship is equivocal , and that 't is not every thing is presently made an idol of , which is any ways said to be worship'd : as is shewn at large in the pap. misrep . . part. c. , . for 't is not only the honor , which catholics shew to holy images , is call'd a worship ; but likewise that is a worship , which protestants give ; as is own'd by junius above ; so that in this sense protestants may be said and prov'd to be image-worshipers too . the reverence likewise shew'd by protestants to the sacrament , is call'd by jewel ( rep. to hard. ) a worship : the honor given to the bible he stiles a worship . in the same way of speaking , the respect to the communion-table may be term'd a worship ; bowing in reverence to the name of jesus may be styl'd a worship . and in this sense , 't will not only be laid to the church of england's charge , that she teaches and approves image-worship ; but likewise bread worship , book-worship , table-worship , and name-worship : and 't will not be very difficult , by the equivocation of this word , and the help of a little pulpit-sophistry , to paint out this church as black with idolatry and superstition , to the people , as she has done the church of rome . and it do's not at all reflect upon the church of rome , or her doctrin , that some of her divines call this respect , honor , veneration or worship paid to holy images a religious respect , or honor , &c. for this is only a dispute about a word ; and let it be call'd by what name they please , whether honorary , religious , or divine , this alters not the nature of the thing ; for 't is but the same thing , by whatsoever name it be express'd . if some will have every respect or veneration , shewn to holy things , as to the bible , the sacrament , the name of jesus , for the relation they have to god , to be call'd a religious worship , let 'em call it so in god's name . and if others will have no veneration or worship to be religious , but that which is directly and immediatly given to god ; let 'em have their way . these are fine notions , and pretty entertainments for school-debates ; but are no concern of our religion or conscience . for as long as 't is own'd , that there 's a respect and reverence due to such holy things , as in some particular manner have relalation to god and his service , and we only express this respect outwardly , which interiorly we feel in our souls ; let this be call'd an honor , a worship , an adoring ; let it be said to be honorary , religious or divine ; let it be deem'd absolute or relative , 't is equally alike to us ; since we are satisfied , the wrangling of the learned about names and words , has no influence upon the acts of our souls ; and cannot make that to be idolatrous , which in it self is not so . here then may the reader see , how stands this controversie between catholics and the church of england protestants . both churches acknowledge , that there 's an honor , and reverence that may be lawfully given to the holy images and pictures of christ . both churches express this honor outwardly : protestants , by using them in their churches and prayer-books , which ( as montagu says ) cannot be abstracted from giving them honor and reverence . while catholics go farther , and say , that 't is lawful to express this honor and reverence due to them , as they have relation to god , by kissing them , pulling off the hat , bowing , setting of tapers , &c. before them , in the same manner , and with no more just occasion of scandal , and no more breach of any commandment , than the church of england do's express the veneration she shews to the bible in kissing it ; to the church , by pulling off the hat ; to the name of jesus , by bowing ; to the communion-table , by setting candles on it . which being so many actions intended to signifie the interior sentiment and affection of the soul ; there can certainly be no more of idolatry in them , or superstition , than there is in the intention , or in the act of the soul ; the one being the same outwardly , what the other is inwardly . and , however some divines and leading men of the church of england , who are in love with wrangling , and thro' the influence of an unchristian temper , seem to be afraid of a better understanding coming amongst christians , take pains to blow up this controversie with some school and empty notions ; yet 't is not to be thought , there 's any great difference between the two churches , were they to speak their sense in a cool and moderate temper , where they might be free from the suggestions of such hot and fiery spirits , who seem to be rather men of state and policy , than of religion . for , can it be imagin'd , that the church of england , who confesses , that the holy ghost himself , the apostles , and primitive christians instructed by the apostles , honor'd the name of the cross , and had an honorable esteem for the sign of the cross , can be in good earnest against those , who express outwardly this honor , which in it self is thus acknowledg'd of divine institution , and to have been the doctrin of the apostles ? if the apostles too , as she owns above , did honor the name of the cross by their mouths and words ; can she condemn those , who do the like with their hands , their heads or knees ? if it be the doctrin of the holy ghost , to have this honor for the name and sign of the cross in our hearts ; and the apostles , by the instinct of that holy spirit , did express this by their words ; may not we do so too ? and if we may do this in words , may not we do it in any other way of expressing our sense , which nature has given us , and are answerable to words ? words are nothing more than for their signification ; and if we signifie our thoughts by any other way , as by signs , by any motion , or gesture of our body ; these actions being to express the same affection of our soul , which we other ways do by words , they are as innocent as our words ; and 't is impossible the actions should be idolatrous , whilst the words are orthodox : since being taught by the apostles , to have an honor in our hearts for the sign of the cross , 't is the same thing before god and men , whether we signifie this outwardly by our tongues , or by our lips , or by our hands , or by our heads , or by our knees ; these being only so many different kinds of speaking , to signifie one and the same sense of our hearts . and whilst they are so , there can be nothing justly charg'd upon any one of these ways of expressing , but will as certainly fall upon all the rest ; for they being all upon the same intention and design , of shewing outwardly the honor we are taught by the apostles to have in our hearts , and this honor thus severally express'd , being but one and the same , founded upon the relation the sign of the cross has to christ ; if it be a religious worship , when 't is signified by the knee , 't is religious too when signified by the tongue , and alike religious whilst 't is in the heart ; if it be idolatrous to express it by the knee in bending , 't is idolatrous too , to express it with the tongue in words ; and most of all idolatrous , as it is in the heart . upon this point turns the greatest part of this controversie , which of it self is very inconsiderable . but our answerer takes little care to see how the question stands ; he 's for exposing the church of rome , and as long as he has the knack of doing this by ridiculing , and drolling , what should he trouble himself with such impertinencies , as are stating the question , and speaking to the point ? he 's satisfied the word image-worship will do the work , without much need of longer proofs ; and therefore waving all such kind of controversial drudgery , he falls to the historical part , in which , from the different account of historians , the disagreement in time and place and other circumstances , he easily fills all with confusion and uncertainty . a tedious work he makes about the second council of nice , and sets it out in such abusive language , with so much contempt and scorn , that he seems , at his writing this character , to have come fresh from a billings-gate lecture . hear how he attacks that venerable synod : they were a pack of greeks ( says he pa. . ) that were neither the wisest , nor the honestest men in the world. then having undervalued the proofs of that council as senseless and ridiculous , he adds , pa. . now you may judge , whether these were not rare greek wits . yet we might forgive their want of brains , if they had been men of integrity ; but they were dishonest too . in this manner do's he complement this great synod with the honorable titles of fools and knaves . certainly he must be a wise man in his own conceit , who makes so bold with three hundred and fifty fathers , besides the popes legates , and the vicars of the oriental patriarchs . but i leave him in this buffoonry , wishing him only much joy of his admirable talent in this kind . the chief thing he urges against this council , is their establishing , as he pretends , superstitious errors , the worship or adoration of images , such as our author judges to be nothing else than idolatry ; in this , doing altogether like himself , who quarrels with every thing ; but how unlike the more learned and moderate divines of his own church , who vindicate this council from all such imputations ! mr. thorndike freely confessing , that he must maintain as unquestionable , that the council of nice injoyns no idolatry , epil . . pa. . and dr. field affirming , that the nicence fathers mean nothing else by adoration of images , but embracing , kissing , and reverently using of them , and like to the honor we do the books of holy scripture . ( of the church l. . c. . ) thus do these eminent men deliver their sense of this council and it's doctrin , which our author has thought fit to render so ridiculous to the world. he catches at words , and without examining or understanding them , makes idolatry and superstition of the most orthodox and christian doctrin : and this i look upon the occasion of his letting flie so furiously at this venerable synod , and of all his rallery against it . but i proceed to consider his other arguments . the principal thing he insists on , and which runs thro' his whole pamphlet , is , that we cannot make it appear , even as a thing probable , that images were so much as set up in churches in the primitive times ; and upon this practice , now so common in the church of rome , he presses her with the guilt of innovation . an excellent argument , well becoming a leader of the people ! but this is the motive of reforming . and do not some other reformers , upon the same grounds , prove the use of organs , in the divine service , to be an innovation ; since it cannot be made appear , even as probable , that there were any such things known to the primitive christians of the first three or four hundred years ? and do not others , still treading over the same steps , make the use of cathedrals and churches , of deanries and prebendaries , an innovation in christianity ; since in the primitive times there were no such things heard ●f ? after this rate some men are pleas'd to argue ; and at this pace the reformation may go on improving every day , till there 's nothing of christianity left , if such principles and reasons of some church of england reformers are but follow'd , as just and convincing . but these can have no authority , but with some weak and passionate men. others , who weigh things duely , know that the circumstances of the primitive christians , their being under severe persecution , their living and conversing in the middle of pagans and jews , &c. did make many things inconvenient and unseasonable at that time , especially such as related to the solemnity and order of the church , which otherwise were good and apostolical . this mr. montagu , a wise and learned man , throughly consider'd ; and particularly in relation to images , which , he says , in the first ages were but few or none in publick , not because they were then unlawful , or contrary to the doctrin of the apostles ; but because they were inconvenient in those times of persecution and paganism . i 'll here set down his own words to satisfie the answerer , and to let him see the difference between the spirit of peace and moderation , and that of bitterness and wrangling . thus then that worthy divine argues in his appeal to caesar , c. . as the ancient fathers of the primitive times had very few or no churches at all , at least of note , dignity or of receipt , because they liv'd in times of fierce persecution , and were seldom , or few of them stationary , but compell'd subinde mutare sedes ; so had they very few , i grant , or no pictures at all in public use amongst them , not so much as for ornament sake . and the reason was , because they lived continually amongst pagans , and were themselves , for the most part , such as had abandon'd and come over from paganism unto christ ; that were bred in , brought up in , inur'd to , and fast setled unto idolatry in image-worship . therefore they spoke against them with some tartness and inveighing sort , lest haply by conversing with , or neighboring upon pagans , or thro' former use of being mis-led by those pagans , the novel and tender shoots of christianity might receive hurt , and learn to worship idols , as those pagans did . in which words this author plainly declares , that tho' there was not the public use of images in the first ages ; yet the admittance of them afterwards into churches was no innovation , as our answerer pretends ; but the practising of a thing , which in all the precedent ages had been just and lawful , but not expedient , for the reasons here assign'd by him . which thing the same author has thus clearly deliver'd in the foregoing chapter , where speaking of the use of images : before st. gregory , says he , i know no such confest employment for them . he was the first that gave such public approbation unto them declaratorily , tho' it was trve doctrin in it self , before he ever profess'd it such . can any thing be more clearly express'd ? is it not evidently here acknowledg●d by a church of england divine , that the use of images , as approv'd and allow'd by pope gregory , who was for giving reverence and respect unto them , as this author confesses in the same chapter , was a true doctrin in it self ; tho' it was never professedly declar'd before this time ? and yet our answerer , unacquainted it seems with the doctrin of his own church , and with the circumstances of the primitive church , comes here with the full cry of innovation , giving the world and me a needless trouble of stating this controversie , which has been so long ago decided , as to this point , by a divine of his own church . but alas , some men , who have for a long time from their castle of priviledge , with a noisy , but empty controversie , peevishly declaim'd against all sorts of adversaries ; and there boastingly triumph'd , where they know no body dar'd contradict or question them , vainly think they may do the like in print , and that they may as easily impose upon all readers , as upon their hearers . and i desire our answerer to consider , how far he is here concern'd , who thus dares to venture abroad , with these raw and vnconnected notions . but the answerer is resolv'd however , to convince his reader of the unlawfulness of images ; and in order to this tells him , as before , that the antient heretics were friends to images . i wont ask here ; why then do's the church of england use them in her places of worship ? but , i 'll tell him in his own words , that this is a silly artifice ; and that every thing is not to be condemn'd , which was us'd by such a sort of people . he knows , i hope , that the antient heretics us'd the bible too , as likewise preaching and churches , and yet sure all these are not to be rejected upon this score . i have here shew'd him already out of his own authors , who first declaratorily establish'd the use of holy images , giving reverence and respect unto them ; and that this was a true doctrin in it self , before he ever profess'd it : and what matter then , if some heretics admitted of the same , who are wont to abuse even the best of things , as the answerer says , the gnostics did , pa. . who rankt christ's image with those of pythagoras , plato and aristotle . as to what he says before , pag. . that pope gregory i. and ii. contradict each other in this point , he would do well to explicate this fuller in his next ; for pope gregory ii. is no more for adoration of images , than gregory i. as appears in that letter of his to leo isaurus cited in nubes testium , pa. . where writing to the emperor : you charge us , says he , with the adoration of stones , and walls , and pictures . but 't is not so as you affirm , o emperor ! what we do is only to refresh our memory , to raise our minds to heaven , — and not , as you urge , to worship them as gods ; no , god forbid , we place no hope in them . how then do's he contradict gregory i. while he 's no more for worshiping images than he was ? but he that has forehead enough to charge me with a notion of invocating of images , as he do's , pa. . when i have no such word or hint , must not be call'd to an account for every thing he says . i have little more to consider in this letter of the answerer , besides his great kindness and affection to the heathens , who , with his good friend dr. stillingfleet , is so favorable to them , as in a manner to excuse them from idolatry , so the better to fix this crime upon the papists : tho' the doctrin of the papists , in this point , is so like what the church of england teaches , that ( as is shewn above ) there 's little difference betwixt them , besides about school terms and words . the world knows the good understanding there was between sultan solyman and martin luther , and how friendly the followers of this new prophet were taught to be to the turks ; but why our english reformers upon martin luther should be at this day so kind to the heathens , must be left to every one to guess . the answerer assures the person of quality , pa. . to whom he writes , that to charge the heathens with worshiping stocks and stones as gods , is to misrepresent them . and yet how many times has this very thing been instill'd into the peoples heads , as true of the papists , which now , as we are inform'd , is a misrepresentation , when affirm'd of the pagans ? are not the pagans here deeply indebted to these church of england men , in their owning them to be misrepresented , whilst the same abomination is so liberally charg'd upon the papists , and yet no misrepresentation there , if you 'l believe ' em ? this is to make the papists worse than heathens ; and without either respect to duty or good manners , to advance even now that plot-divinity , which was preach'd by a doctor before the house of commons , april . . who setting out popery in such colors , as might be most effectual to excite that assembly to the drawing of blood , after several dreadful characters , at last pa. . thus concludes ; nay , says he , it is a religion , that will engage you in a more unnatural idolatry , than ever the pagans were guilty of . is not this a rare character of one christian from another ? nay from church of england christians too , such who pretend to so much charity and moderation above their neighbors ; and yet to cast forth so much gall and venom , that could be expected from none , but another julian , or a lucian ? but i take no advantage here , i consider this was deliver'd in a time of an epidemical madness ; and what wonder , if the pulpits did not escape the contagion ? but why at this time of the day should this lecture be read to the people ? is not the plot out of some people's heads yet ? is the infection so lasting ? but what shall we say ; the enclosure of some men's religion , is only to be against popery . they raise a monstrous notion in their own brains ; and while they expose this to the people , they make the innocent suffer for their delusion . they 'l joyn hands with the turk or the pagan , so they can but make a devil of the papist . and in this some of their furioso's are so blindly rash , that they care not how antichristian they make their own church , so they can but set out the papists for idolaters . for here i desire any serious man to consider , if the papists were thus really idolaters , as bad or worse than the heathens , as these men suggest , what advantage would this be to the church of england ? what kind of church must the church of england be , who has no ordination , succession , or authority of preaching , but what she has receiv'd from these idolaters ? what kind of church must she be , whilst she owns her self and these idolaters to be parts of the same church ? what kind of church must she be , whilst she acknowledges , that all her members for a thousand years before henry . were in communion with these idolaters ; and in all external rites and worship , were comprehended in the papacy ? must not she have been a very dissembling and adulterous church ; whilst believing internally the true and pure faith of christ , she did for so many years externally practise all the supposed superstitions and idolatries of the church of rome , which she judg'd to be most wicked and damnable ? is not this an admirable character of a pretended church of christ , to have play'd the hypocrit for so many ages , committing adultery with the supposed whore of babylon , and partaking in all her pretended abominations ? what greater blow could an enemy give to the church of england , than some of her divines do thus with their own hands , who , like spiritual janizaries , destroy their own mother church of which they are members ? for is it not evident , that whilst they endeavor to make the church of rome guilty of idolatry , they prove their own church for so many years to have been idolatrous , to have been a dissembling church , a church denying christ and his religion , a church for temporal respects committing many idolatries and superstitions , and consequently , no church at all ? and what more forcible argument need any dissenters to justifie their separation from the church of england ? for since the greatest part of those things upon which the dissent is founded , are such as have been instituted and commanded by the church of rome , why shou'd they receive them from the church of england , whilst these same church-guides , who press the observance , take so much pains to prove those from whom they receiv'd them , to be idolaters , and a sort of christians worse than heathens ? what reason has any man to joyn in such a form of worship and divine service , when he is assur'd , that those from whom the greatest part is borrow'd , are idolaters ? why should any be tied to such ceremonies , if those that instituted them were idolaters ? 't is but rational for every man to think , that if the papists are so stupid , so sottish , so ridiculous , such idolaters , so worse than heathens , as every little church-divine is pleas'd to render them , that the church of england , who retains so much of their service and ceremonies , must of necessity be so far like them in sottishness , ridiculosity , idolatry and heathenism ; and the only way to become a pure christian , must be to shake off , even that which she has retain'd . this is a very obvious reasoning ; and i don't question , has so powerfully wrought upon the minds of infinite numbers , and widen'd the separation to that degree , that the very crime of the church of england in her bitter and vnjust invectives against the papists , has by a just hand of god prov'd her punishment ; whilst her endeavors to alienate the peoples minds from popery , has embitter'd them even against her self , and been so fatal to her , that by the same means she has made people no papists , she has made them dissenters from her own communion , and rais'd to her self almost as many enemies , as she inteded against the church of rome . our answerer , has lent a helping hand in this point ; i do not mean here by his peevish , scandalous pulpit invectives ; but in this his pretended answer to this part of nubes testium ; whilst he has scarce any one argument , but what is levell'd as much against his own church ( if that be really his , which he pretends ) as against the papists : tho' in reality , to any intelligent reader , there is but very little against either : the whole being made up of vulgar sophisms , wordy disputes , and arguing at rovers : but the author is to be excus'd ; the whole is nothing more than a letter : and every body knows , that a letter , however proper it may be to the person , to whom 't is directed , is many times very absurd , when 't is divulg'd and made common ; wee 'l excuse therefore the writer , but really he is to blame that publish'd it . finis . of idolatry a discourse, in which is endeavoured a declaration of, its distinction from superstition, its notion, cause, commencement, and progress, its practice charged on gentiles, jews, mahometans, gnosticks, manichees arians, socinians, romanists : as also, of the means which god hath vouchsafed towards the cure of it by the shechinah of his son / by tho. tenison ... tenison, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing t estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) of idolatry a discourse, in which is endeavoured a declaration of, its distinction from superstition, its notion, cause, commencement, and progress, its practice charged on gentiles, jews, mahometans, gnosticks, manichees arians, socinians, romanists : as also, of the means which god hath vouchsafed towards the cure of it by the shechinah of his son / by tho. tenison ... tenison, thomas, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for francis tyton ..., london : . reproduction of original in harvard university libraries. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time 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general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng idols and images -- worship. idolatry. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , guil. jane r. p. d. hen. episc. lond. a sacris dom. nov. . . of idolatry : a discourse , in which is endeavoured a declaration of , its distinction from superstition ; its notion , cause , commencement , and progress ; its practice charged on gentiles , jews , mahometans , gnosticks , manichees , arians , socinians , romanists : as also , of the means which god hath vouchsafed towards the cure of it by the shechinah of his son . by tho. tenison , b. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty , and late fellow of corpus-christi colledg in cambridge . london : printed for francis tyton at the three-daggers in fleetstreet , over against st. dunstans church , . to the right honourable robert earl of manchester , one of the gentlemen of his majesty's bedchamber , lord lieutenant of the county of huntington , &c. my lord , it is now a year , and almost another , since i wrote a letter for private use , about the worship of images : a practice most scandalous to the christian religion , and ( as some use it ) so extremely ridiculous , that the very statue , had it any apprehension , would modestly bow it self , and prevent the adorer . from that small beginning has arisen a book sufficiently big ; but of the less solidity by reason of the hasty growth of it . more art , together with more hours of leisure would have made it a lesser volume . for in writing of books , as in carving of statues , the cutting away of each superfluity is a work of skill and time . but if this volume were equally great and good , it would be the more suitable present for your lordship , to whom the dedication of it is due , whether the author be considered , or that which be hath written . for the author he hath had long dependance on your honourable family ; such as may almost be dated from that happy time in which these islands were disenchanted , and received their true and undoubted soveraign , in place of that spectre of authority which then walked at whitehall . he is possessed of one living by the bounty of the then lord chamberlain your father , whose most generous kindness and condescension must for ever be remembred by him . and seeing the noble offer makes the favour , and not the acceptance ; he owes to your lordship his acknowledgments for another . many other obligations from your honourable person and family , and therein from your most excellent lady , ( whose eminent and exemplary virtues surpass the very heighth of her birth and quality ) as in gratitude i must not forget , so in good manners i ought not here to repeat them at large ; for it would be a rude abuse of your lordships patience to turn this epistle into a second book . for the book it self , some part of it was meditated , the whole revised at your castle of kimbolton ; a place where your lordship does yearly offer new matter to the admiration of travellers , who speak with such praise of the fair villa's of england . it was enlarged , and now at last published , not without the desire of some of your lordships very learned relations , who by their own accurate pens have made amends to the world for any trouble they may occasion by mine . it hath already some hope of your favourable acceptance ; and therefore it lays it self with the greater assurance at the feet of your honour . where it offendeth either in matter or form , ( for in an heap of so many particulars some which are not very current may pass through my hand undiscerned ; ) i beg not patronage , but excuse . in the matter , i would hope that the main of it is passable , because i have used as its touchstone the doctrine and worship of that church , in whose communion ( by gods good providence ) i have always lived , the church of england : a church of unparallel'd sobriety and invincible truth . the country was one of the last of those which the arms of the ancient romans subdu'd ; and the church is such that it can never be conquered by the arguments of the modern . it is true , i have said many things which the church hath not said ; for i was unwilling to disgust any curious reader , by serving up nothing but what had formerly been often set before him . but against the church i am not conscious that i have written a syllable . and for some speculations which might have been subject to misconstruction , i have committed them to ( that which they call the best keeper of secrets ) the fire . if any offensive phrase or notion have escaped me , as soon as i am shewed it , i shall be readier to blot it out , than i was ever to write it . touching my manner of writing , i crave leave to observe a few things about the stile , and the temper of this discourse . concerning stile , had it been my talent , it had not been possible in such an historical and philological argument to have made any considerable use of it . a discourse into which the words of other men of differing professions , ages , countries , languages and stiles , are so frequently woven , must needs be uneven and parti-coloured . concerning the temper observed in this writing , i have endeavour'd to abstain from all unnecessary heat and severe language . for i cannot perswade my self that the witchcraft of error can be removed , or so much as weakned by the meer scratches of the pen. it hath also been my care not to misrepresent the opinions of those from whom i differ . yet i am sensible that this very impartiality , with which i move in the middle path , will draw upon me the censorious lashes of many zealots who place themselves on either hand . those whom jesuitick bygotry possesseth will say i have maliciously blackned their church . others whose over-rigid humour must needs pass for the only protestancy , whose religion sheweth it self in nothing but in a fierce and indiscreet zeal against popery , will think my pen hath flattered . they will cry out that it hath imitated his pencil , who drew the loose gabrielle in the figure of chaste diana . but i have ( i hope ) avoided both those extremes : most certain i am , i have studied to do so . and if just moderation must be blamed , i am willing to be a sufferer in so good , so honourable a cause . there are another sort of enemies of whose censures i am also in some expectation , though in no fear at all : i mean the lower sort of criticks , into whose province of philology i have sometimes stepped . this sort of men seemeth to me like those wretched barbarians on the coast of guinea , whose idol is a certain bundle of feathers . religious men of the warmest temper are not more earnest about matters of faith than these are in questions of wit , and debates about words and tittles . for though the interest of the thing they contend about be insignificant , yet they think that power and mastery in any thing is worthy their zeal . if i have but mispelled the name of some heathen-god , i expect severe usage from such grammarians . but though they shall prove angry , i will not retaliate . it is not worth the while to keep up a controversy begun about a trifle , and to bandy light matters backward and forward by eternal dispute . but i trespass upon your honour by the liberty of this discourse , and by introducing these pedantick people who make so absurd a figure in courts . this only i have to add : if there be any thing useful in this writing , i know your lordship will accept it for its own sake . and for that which is useless , or defective , i hope it may obtain pardon through the submission of the author , who is , from dr. lawson's house in mincing-lane in london , march , . my lord , your lordship 's most obliged and obedient servant , tho. tenison . the contents of the chapters . chap. i. of the notion of superstition pag. . chap. ii. of the notion of idolatry p. . chap. iii. of the causes and occasions of idolatry in the world p. . chap. iv. of the commencement and progress of idolatry p. . chap. v. of the idolatry charged on the gentiles part . how far the gentiles were ignorant of a supreme god p. . part . of the worship of universal nature , &c. by the gentiles as god p. . part . how far they owned one true god p. . part . what applications they made to one god p. . part. . whether they worshipping one god could be guilty of the sin of idolatry p. . part . of their idolatry in worshipping the statues of god p. . part . of their idolatry in worshipping daemons p. . part . of their idolatry in worshipping the images of daemons p. . part . of their worshipping daemons more than god p. . chap. vi. of the idolatry of the jews . part . of the provisions made by god against the idolatry of the jews p. . part . of the idolatry of the jews p. . part . of the worship of the golden calf p. . part . of the worship of the idol apis p. . part . of the originals of apis and serapis p. . part . of the egyptian-apis whether he were moses p. . part . why moses might be idolized among the egyptians p. . part . why moses might be honoured by the symbol of an ox p. . part . why moses might be called apis p. . part . when the worship of apis commenced p. . part . of the idols apis and mnevis p. . part . whence the original of apis might be obscured p. . chap. vii . of the idolatry of the mahometans p. . chap. viii . of the idolatry with which some are charged who profess themselves christians part . of the idolatry of the gnosticks p. . part . of the idolatry of the manichees p. . chap. ix . of the idolatry with which the arians and socinians are charged part . of the idolatry of the arians and socinians jointly p. . part . of the idolatry of the arians p. . part . of the idolatry of the socinians p. . chap. . of the idolatry charged on the papists part . of the charge which is drawn up against them p. . part . of the mitigation of the charge of idolatry against the papists p. . part . of the idolatry charged on the romanists in the invocation of saints p. . chap. xi . of the idolatry charged on the romanists in the worship of images , and particularly of the worship of an image of god p. . chap. xii . of the idolatry charged on the romanists in worshipping images part . of the worship of the image of christ p. . part . of the worship of the images of saints p. . chap. xiii . of the idolatry charged on the church of england p. . chap. xiv . of the means which god hath vouchsafed the world towards the curing idolatry ; and particularly of his favour in exhibiting to that purpose the shechinah of his son part . of the cure of idolatry p. . part . of the cure of idolatry by the shechinah of of god p. . part . of the shechinah of god from adam to noah p. . part . of the shechinah of god from noah to moses p. . part . of the shechinah of god from moses to the captivity , and therein largely of the ark and cherubims and urim and thummim p. . part . of the shechinah of god from the captivity to the messiah p. . part . of the cure of idolatry by the image of god in christ god-man p. . part . of the usefulness of this argument of gods shechinah p. . part . of the usefulness of this argument of gods shechinah , with relation to the worship of angels and images p. . chap. xv. a review and conclusion p. . errata . pag. . lin . . for , of a remorse , read , of remorse , p. . l. . f. fritbert r. freiberg . p. . l. . f. deitas r. deütas . p. . l. . f. notions r. motions . p. . l . f. families of cain and lamech r. family of cain . p. . l. . & p. . l. . f. loyn r. line . p. . l. , . f. commical r. conical . p. . l. . f. vatallus r. vatablus . p. . l. . f. ascendeth a pyramis r. ascendeth in a pyramis . p. . l. . f. opposite r. apposite . p. . marg. for virgine r. virgini . p. . marg. f. quid r. quod . p. . l. . f. re-acting r. reaching . p. . l. . f. man r. mean. p. . l. . blot out and. p. . l. , . f. heaven r. heathen . in p. , , . there is left out in the title on the top . with relation to the worship , &c. p. . l. . f. he r. we. p. . l. . f. second r. third . p. . l. . f. chres r. sepulchres . other mispellings and little mistakes are left to the candor of the reader , who is desired as he peruseth the book , to cast his eye sometimes upon the review at the end of it , a few amendments and additions being there subjoined . chap. i. of the notions of superstition and idolatry , as they are usually confounded ; and as they ought , of right , to be distinguish'd . i know not how i can better begin this discourse concerning religious worship , than by imitating the prologue of origen , or rather of maximus , to his dispute against the heresie of marcion . in the entrance of that dialogue , he a maketh a right opinion concerning god to be the basis and foundation of universal goodness . men are imperfect , and oftentimes the more they are known , the less they are honoured ; insomuch , that distance and reservedness is made use of , especially among the eastern princes , as the necessary instrument of veneration . but god is a being absolutely perfect ; and the better he is understood , he is worshipped with the more rational religion , and with the profounder reverence . god is that one , supreme , infinite , spirit ; who by almighty power , wisdom and goodness , made and governeth the world. and if men entertained such a notion of him , instead of those rude and false draughts , which are pictur'd in their vain imaginations , they would pay him an homage more agreeable to his divine , and to their own reasonable , though humane nature . they would then serve him with that pure religion , or sincere christianity , which is not adulterated either with idolatry or superstition . of these , the notions being so commonly entangled , that hesychius expoundeth the name , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 [ a superstitious person ] by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 [ an idolater ] ; and the translators of the psalms * render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the vain or empty ( that is , the exceeding ) vanities of idols , by superstitious vanities : i will in the first place offer to the reader a distinct consideration of them . superstition , if we have regard only to the bare derivations of its names in the greek or latin tongues , is no other than a single branch of idolatry . it is the worship of the divi , coelestes semper habiti , ( as the law of the twelve tables speaketh ) that is , of the sempiternal daemons ; and also of those , quos in coelum merita vocârunt ( as the same law distinguisheth ) ; of such hero's and superexisting souls as were , through their eminent and exemplary virtue , translated from earth to heaven . yet in the notion of plutarch , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or superstition , consisteth not so much in the bare worship of such invisible powers , as in that servility and horror of mind which possessed the worshippers , and inclin'd them ( like those who flatter tyrants ) to hate them , and yet to fawn on them , and to suppose them apt to be appeased b by ceremonious and insignificant crouchings . use hath further extended the signification of the word ; insomuch , that sometimes it comprehendeth , not only all manner of idolatry , but also every false and offensive way , which disguiseth it self under the colour of religion . thus socrates the historian , c when he mentioneth the signs which julian gave of his proneness to superstition he meaneth by that word the whole religion of the gentiles . but there is still behind its proper and especial notion ; and the synod of mechlin hath attempted to set down a true description of it . the council of trent having commanded the abolishing of all superstition , the fathers of this synod go about to explain the meaning of that precept ; and they do it d after the following manner . this synod ( say they ) teacheth , that all that use of things is superstitious , which is performed without [ the warrant of ] the word of god , or the doctrine of the church , by certain customary rites and observances , of which no reasonable cause can be assigned : and when trust is put in them , and an expectation is raised of an event following from such rites , and not hoped for without them , from the intercession of the saints . also when , in the worship of saints , they are done rather out of rashness and lightness , than out of piety and religion . but this description is in many respects defective . for many of the usages which it decrieth , do not relate to religion , and they deserve rather the names of follies , impertinences , and ludicrous inchantments : unless a man would distinguish concerning the kinds of superstition , and call some , the superstitions of common life , and others , the superstitions of worship . the rites of the former kind become the more superstitious , if their event be expected from some presumed saint ; for then an impertinent custom becomes an impiety , or the usage of a magical charm , by which invisible powers are depended on , for the production of visible effects . if ( for instance sake ) a man shall fall into that conceit which hath possesled many , even origen a himself , that certain names signifie by nature , and not by institution ; and that an event will follow from a certain ceremonious pronunciation , or other use of them , he meriteth the title of a trifling and credulous philosopher . but if he maketh such use of words [ suppose of adonai or sabaoth , which origen believeth to lose their vertue , if turn'd into any other language : ] and hopeth thence for the event from god , through the intercession of some spirit ; he deserveth the reproof due to a superstitious man , who , by supposing a divine attendance on his trifles , doth highly dishonour god and his saints . neither doth the synod of mechlin absolve such rites from the guilt of superstition , by adding to the intercession of saints the prescription of the church ; for that cannot alter the nature of things , though it may render some rites , indifferent in their nature , expedient , not to say , necessary , in point of obedience , for the preservation of peace and order . if ri●…es of worship are exceeding numerous under christianity ; if they are light and indecent ; if being in themselves indifferent , or decent in their use , they are imposed , or observed as necessary duties ; the stamp of authority does not much alter the property of them . wherefore others b have , in more accurate manner , defined superstition ; a worship relating to god , proceeding from a certain inclination . of mind , which is commonly called a good intention ; and springing always from mans brain ; separately from the authority of the holy scriptures . but neither in this definition are we to rest : for if the reason of mans brain answers the piety of his intention ; the worship which he offereth , though not commanded in scripture , if not forbidden by it , may be grateful to god. i should therefore chuse , in this manner , to describe superstition . it is a corruption of publick or private worship , either in the substance , or in the rites of it ; whereby men ( actuated by servile motives ) perform , or omit , in their own persons ; or urge upon , or forbid to others , any thing as in its nature religious or sinful , which god hath neither required , nor disallowed , either by the principles of right reason , or by his revealed will. it is the paying of our religious tribute , to god or an idol , in coin of our own mintage . the positive part of it is the addition of our own numberless , absurd , or decent , inventions , to the prescriptions of god , in the quality of laws and rites , equal , or superior to those by him enacted . first , an observance of a very great number of such rites and ceremonies in the worship of god , as admit of excuse or praise in their single consideration , is a part of this superstition : for it prejudiceth the substance of our duty , by distracting our attention , and is unagreeable to the christianity which we profess ; because it is not , as was the mosaic , a typical religion . the greek church , as well as a great part of the latin , aboundeth a with ceremonies ; and the rituals are of so great a bulk , that they look like volumes too big for the very temple , much more for the church . neither ( probably ) should such a number of rites have ever been imposed on the jews , if their ritual temper , their conversation with a people of like ritual disposition , and the use of types in shadowing out the messiah , had not mov'd the wisdom of god to prescribe them . the late pretender to the latin text , and english translation of the order , and canon of the mass , b conscious , one would think , of the absurdness of the romish ceremoniousness ; at least of the appearance of it , as such , to the reformed in england ; has in less than thirty crosses omitted more than twenty . he hath never mentioned the incensing of the altar , the book , the priest : he hath left out , sometimes in his latin , and oftner in his english , a great number of rites enjoyned the priest , and dayly performed by him . i will give a few instances in both kinds . in the very beginning of the order of the mass , this is the authentick rubrick . a the priest being accoustred , when he goeth to the altar , after having done due reverence to it , he signeth himself with the sign of the cross , from the forehead to the breast ; and with a loud voice , saith , in the name of the father . instead of this , j. d. thus beginneth his order . sacerdos , ad gradum altaris , dicit , in nomine , &c. the priest at the foot of the altar , saith , in the name of the father . in the repetition of the creed , the priest is required , b when he saith , deum , god , to bow his head to the cross ; when he saith jesus christ , to do the like : so that they are together ador'd . when he saith , and was incarnate , to kneel till those words , and was made man. when he hath ended , to cross himself from the forehead to the breast . all this j. d. hath omitted , both in his latin and english pages c . in his pretended version , he thus rendereth , d genuflexus , adorat , surgit , ostendit populo ; here the priest elevates the sacred host : whereas this is the genuine translation , here the priest , with bended knee , adoreth the host : then he riseth up , and sheweth it to the people . again , there is a superstitious levity and want of decence in many rites , which render them unfit for the solemnity of divine worship . the watchings of women on the eve of the nativity , together with the consequent nursings and rockings , used sometimes by those of the roman communion , are in some degree superstitious . they are apt to raise in the mind a mean and common idea of our lord's birth , and they give manifest occasions to profane men , to make ridiculous a very solemn part of our christian faith. in the worship and procession of some images , the rites are so apish , that they are fit only for the service of such an idol , as that in india , spoken of by vincent le blanc , which had its statue made of the tooth of a monkey . the very rituals , and missals , and ceremonials of rome prescribe , too often , very idle and unbecoming rites , and make a kind of farce to be the part of the priest , or rather his humour , who in carneval-time , went dressed half in the spanish , and half in the french fashion . a they forbear not such levity in the very use of the keys : for if a person dieth excommunicate , but with testimonies of a remorse , the roman ritual directeth the priest to give him absolution b by whipping the body , if it remaineth unburied ; or the grave , if the corps be in it , and it self be part of the consecrated ground . a like mimical indecence is enjoyn'd by the roman missal c on a very solemn time , the eve of easter . by order of that missal , all the lights of the church are extinguish'd , that they may again be lighted by new consecrated fire . procession is made , and the deacon , who carries on a pole three candles in triangular distance , does enter the church with much ceremony , and lighteth one of the extinguished candles , and cryeth out , the light of christ. he proceeding to the middle of the church , lighteth a second candle , crying out again , the light of christ. at last , approaching the altar , he lighteth a third , and cryeth with a louder voice , the light of christ. nor is there yet an end ; for further postures , and lighting 's of candles , especially of a great one in the pulpit called cereus , and of lamps , are in such sort required d , that the whole ceremony looketh more like to the play of children , than to the worship of christian men . of the like levity most of their forms of consecration may be justly accused . such is that of the benediction of a bell , a which is ceremoniously washed with salt-water , and crossed by the bishop , and by his ministers carefully wiped . such is that of the dedication and consecration of a church , in which the bishop filleth the two diagonal lines of the area , with the latin and greek alphabets , writing first from the corner on the left-hand at his entrance , the row of the greek letters , with the end of his pastoral-staff ; and then the latin ones from the corner on his right-hand . b lastly , such is that of the benediction of chrism , c or a mixture of balm and oyl . there the bishop breatheth three times cross-wise , over the chrismal phial . then twelve priests , after having bowed in order to the sacrament on the altar , and the bishop , proceed to the table where the phial is placed . there they successively imitate the bishop , breathing three times cross-wise over the mouth of the vessel : which being done , together with their obeisance , a second time to the sacrament , and the bishop , they retire for a season . now it is not readily imagined , by what vertue such forms as these affect the italians , who are a grave and steddy people . neither are the rites solemn enough , which the greeks sometimes observe ; as appeareth at large in goar and habertus . and , methinks , those greeks at jerusalem e might have better employ'd their artists , than in making a narrow passage through two pillars , in order to their creeping through , in imitation of the strait gate , which leadeth to life eternal . last of all , the laws and rites of worship which man inventeth , how few and decent soever they appear , become superstitious , as soon as they are made equal with the express laws of god. this superstition our saviour condemned in the pharisees , who usurped the legislative power of god , and taught sometimes for necessary doctrines the commandments of men . a they made some of their traditions equal to the most moral laws of moses : nay , they often were more fond of the issue of their own fancy , than of the edicts of god. they were wont to say , b that the words of the scribes were more amiable than the words of the law. also , that the words of the elders were more weighty than the words of the prophets . many of them vilified the written word in comparison of the cabala , or oral tradition of the elders , which they call'd the foundation . they held the breach of a traditional rite , to be as capital as the violation of a moral law ; rabbi jose teaching , that the eating of bread with unwashed hands , was as great a wickedness as the humbling of an harlot c . hence our saviour defended the breach of this tradition by his disciples , not as it was an innocent ceremony , but as it was imposed as a necessary part of religion : the neglect of which defil'd a man , d and rendered him as guilty in gods sight , as if he had broken a written law. nay , they judged of their saintship rather by the obedience they paid to their own inventions , than by their observation of gods commands . thus , by the device of their corban , they made a false estimate of charity ; believing themselves righteous , whilst they violated the indispensable law of love to their parents . some usages there are not commanded by god , yet acceptable to him , if our high estimation of them , and our indiscreet zeal in their use or imposition , does not become the dead fly in the spikenard . i cannot discern such superstition , as others think they have done , a in uncovering the head when a light is brought in , and praying for the light of heaven . i know not what irreligion there is , in using the like ceremony when our neighbour sneezeth ; and in wishing his health , or blessing god for his deliverance from the offensive vapour . i mean this , of those persons by whom it doth not appear , but that the inward intention doth accompany the outward sign . a prudent christian is not offended at him , who on a solemn occasion maketh the sign of the cross on himself , as an external sign of his christian religion . neither doth he censure those , who well understanding their own tempers , do use fasting before the eucharist , as an help to devotion : or those who use abstinence on a saturday with discretion ; by way of preparation ( as is alledged b by some ) for the holy-day which succeeds it . and he is not well-grounded in the faith and charity of a christian man , who brandeth all those with superstition , that comply with the church of england in her rites , which are neither in their number many , nor indecent , or immoral in their nature ; neither are they required as usages in themselves necessary to salvation . they are enjoyned and used for the sake of order and comeliness , without which a church is as it were undressed , and exposed in ungrateful and unbecoming circumstances , to the devout , who with reason conceive some difgust , as well at the nakedness , as at the paint of their mother . there are , then , certain free-will-offerings both of churches and single persons , which god almighty [ who as learned men think , accepted voluntary sacrifices of thanksgiving in the infancy of the world ; and who most certainly accepted of voluntary dedications of feasts under the very law of moses , ] will not despise under christianity ; when they are presented with piety , humility and prudence . but if any shall perform or enjoyn such rites , under the notion of indispensable duties ; if they shall value them as the weightier matters of religion , and impose them , as such , with fierceness and intemperate zeal ; or if by negative scrupulositie , they shall place religion in the meer abhorrence of them ; they so far cease to be truly devout , and become ridiculously and uncharitably superstitious . god hath not required such things at their hands in such manner , or such a mighty dread of them ; neither is he pleased with such will-worship . softer words are not to be used towards them who so highly exalt their imagination , as to make it the measure of gods will , and inforce those observances , or omissions , as heavenly laws which the great governour of the church hath left to the discretion of his christian subjects . their usurpation is insufferable , who make more duties and sins than god commandeth or forbiddeth : and nothing but blind and slavish superstition subjecteth the neck to their uneasie yoke . a let this little suffice here , concerning that corruption in the laws , rites and motives of worship ; it being only spoken in the way to my direct theme of idolatry , by which the object of worship is depraved . chap. ii. of the notion of idolatry . idolatry is either metaphorical or proper . by metaphorical idolatry , i mean that inordinate love of riches , honours , and bodily pleasures , whereby the passions and appetites of men are made superior to the will of god : man , by so doing , making as it were a god of himself and his sensual temper . the covetous man worshippeth mammon ; he valueth his gold , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the language of philo a , as a divine image : as if the image of god were cast , in eminent manner , in that thick clay spoken of by the prophet , with which the issachars of the world do lade themselves . such idolatrous estimation of money , gave to a mine in friebert , which contained in it exceeding rich ore , that high and mighty name of himmelfurst , or the prince of heaven . the ambitious man , rather than he will want high place , or popular fame , he will in unjust wars , and unreasonable duels , offer himself a sacrifice to honour ; an idol on whose altars more blood hath been profusely shed , than on those of moloch or bellona . to the glutton , ( as tertullian in his book of fasting saith of him , after his sharp manner , ) his belly is his god , his paunch is his altar , his cook is his priest , his sawces are his graces , and his belching is prophesie . the unchast man owns nothing so divine as his harlot , and borroweth the phrases of his courtship , from the goddesses and the shrines , the temples and the altars , of the theologers of the gentiles , that is , their poets . now this excessive value of the things of the world , is a very high and impious presumption : but because it setteth not up mammon or the appetite , as a god , or an object of religious worship ; therefore i call it metaphorical , and not proper idolatry ; in which latter subject only , i am at present engag'd . this kind of idolatry which i call proper , is by many supposed a matter of nice and difficult speculation . they think the notion of it too abstruse for common heads ; yea , too hard for some scholastick ones , which are not very accurate in dividing a cummin-seed . and yet the holy writers do every-where reprove the people for this sin , supposing its nature to be commonly understood : and sure it is no other than that which is briefly describ'd by st. cyprian and hilary . then ( saith st. cyprian ) is idolatry committed , when the divine honour is given to another . so hilary the roman deacon ( sometimes mistaken for st. ambrose , ) doth , in this , place the nature of idolatry , that it usurpeth the honour of god , and challengeth it in right of the creature . not unlike to these descriptions is that which we find in the book of the reformation b of ecclesiastical laws , begun by henry the eighth . idolatry ( saith that book ) is a worship , in which not the creator , but the creature , or some figment of man is adored . to this worship of the creature , the scripture doth frequently give the name of uncleanness . this it hath done , partly in compliance with the jewish idiom , which calleth any thing that is detestable , dirty or unclean ; the persons of that people being desecrated by corporal pollutions . it hath also done it , by reason of those very unchast actions and rites , by which many of the idols of the gentiles were served ; though in the worship of some few , and particularly in that of vesta , the great observance was chastity . but the scripture hath , especially , given to idolatry that name of uncleanness , because it was an alienation of the hearts and bodies of the jews from the god of israel , who had , as it were , chosen that church as his spouse on earth . for the like reason witchcraft is a sort of idolatry , because it breaketh covenant with god , and entreth into solemn league and compact with daemons . now if this common notion seemeth , too briefly , or too generally propounded , i am ready to make a particular enlargement of it in the following definition . idolatry is a sin , which by inward reverence or outward signs , giveth to some other object , in an act or habit of religious homage or worship , that honour which is either essential to god ; or being communicable , yet appertaining to god only till he hath declared his actual communication of it , is either not at all communicated , or not in that extent or continuance of vertue , which seemeth thereby to be attributed to it . this definition containeth in it three branches , which are also three degrees of idolatry . first , the idolater giveth away , sometimes , the essential and incommunicable honour of god. this he doth two ways ; first , when he dethroneth god in his imagination , and setteth up some other object in his place . thus the babylonians offended , whil'st they adored the primitive baal , the sun , as the best and greatest deity , not only in their world or empire , but likewise throughout the sphere of all things . he doth it , secondly , when admitting of god , he addeth another principle equal to him ; for he that divideth the empire of god , diminisheth his honour : he makes him cease to be god , that is , to be one and supreme . this presumption pliny , a chargeth , in effect , on democritus , giving to his two principles , the names of poena and praemium , punishment and reward ; or ( as i think ) more properly , avenger and rewarder . the like fault is found in the persian theology , which constituteth ( as they say ) two principles ; the one the fountain of good , under the name of oromasdes ; the other the source of evil , under the name of arimanius : although it may appear from theodorus , in his book a of the persian magick , that both ( according to zarasdas or zoroaster ) were the off-spring of zaruam , who was own'd as the prince of all things , and the father of hormisda and satanas , and called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or fortune . such idolatry is likewise charged on the americans of mexico , who are reported ( b ) to have had two thousand gods , and amongst them two principal ones , tezcatlipuca the god of providence , and vitzilopuchtli the god of the wars . it may be that there was a deity own'd by them superiour to both these : for what else was intended by that great and superiour image plac'd on the top of the chappel of idols c in the city of mexico ? it was either the statue of the supreme god , or of the supreme demon of their precinct . and why should it not be thought that mexico own'd one god as well as peru , in which the soveraign principle ( as acosta instructeth us ) was called pachacamac and viracocha , inferiour to whom they esteemed the sun and thunder , their two principles , ( as i guess ) of good and evil. in the next place , the idolater giveth to some other object , that honour which might have been communicated by gods authority , but hath been entirely reserved by his wisdom , whilest no actual communication of it hath been any way declared . this impiety of his is likewise of two kinds . for he giveth the honour which god hath wholly reserved , to some other object , either with respect to some inherent power with which he supposeth it to be indu'd by god ; or with regard to some external relation which he supposeth to be owned by him . in the first kind the barbarous goths offended , whilst they worshipped nocca a [ a kind of neptune amongst them ] as one to whom a superiour power had committed the government of their seas and rivers ; whil'st that idol possibly , had not so much virtue communicated to him , as might still one puff of wind , or crush a bubble . in the second kind , they would have transgressed , who in the temple of dagon should have done religious , though relative and inferiour , reverence to his shapeless trunk , or even to his statue in the perfection of its beauty ; god having never own'd it as his image , or the image of any deity , or angel , substituted by him . lastly , the idolater giveth honour to an object which god owneth and replenisheth sometimes with virtue , in the quality of the fountain of that virtue ; whilst god hath not indued it with that constant power in it self , but used it as the instrument of his works . the power which healeth diseases not curable by physick , doth not so essentially belong to the prerogative of god , that he cannot communicate it perpetually to angel or man , and invest him in it , without diminution of his own omnipotence . for it implyeth not a contradiction , for a creature to be able to alter the whole texture of so little a frame as mans body : neither is it impossible for man to be , by god , indued with a knowledg , which in a certain precinct , may , by signs in nature , to men unknown , and past their finding out , foretel several accidents which god determineth not to over-rule ; such as plagues , or healthful seasons ; famine or plenty : for this knowledg , though it is not mans natural talent , is not omniscience . yet whil'st this is done by gods immediate power , and man is but instrumental in it , he becomes an idolater , who owneth and thanketh man as the efficient cause . and he is guilty two ways : either whilst he owneth the instrument as the efficient cause , during the time that god maketh use of it , or after god hath ceased to work by it . in the first kind , the impotent people , who were healed at the pool of bethesda , had offended , if they had given thanks to the angel as to the principal physician . and against this kind of idolatry st. peter gave caution , when seeing the multitude transported with admiration at the recovery of the cripple , a he thus bespake them , ye men of israel , why marvel ye at this ? or why look you so earnestly on us , as though by our own power , or holiness , we had made this man to walk ? the offence of the second kind is much greater than this first , because it doth not only give to gods instrument the honour due to the divine efficient cause ; but it also giveth divine honour to that , which is not now so much as the instrument by which god worketh . and this becomes a very idol indeed , a vanity or lie , or nothing at all of that which it is esteemed to be . the magical rod in the temple of isis , in imitation of that of moses , was but an idol , if it was an instrument of any wonders ; for it was not the rod of god , but of a demon. this matter may also be illustrated , both by the instance of the brazen serpent set up by one of gods vicegerents , and , upon its abuse , destroyed by another ; and by that of the cup of joseph . this cup by which he divined , was , probably , an instrument used in some sacrifice , some drink-offering ; and in the use of which god vouchsafed him a spirit of prophesie , with relation to the affairs of egypt . now if the egyptians afterward made use of this cup , or any other in form of it , without any precept or promise from god almighty ; and trusted in it , as in the cause of divination , they then were idolaters in this last kind of that impiety . and this , one would think , was the egyptian practice , who readeth lucian in his book of sacrifices , a and observeth him there deriding the egyptians , because they made , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or , a drinking pot , a god. and such a cup may that be thought , which is described in the hand of isis in her mystical table , rather than a measure , as pignorius contendeth ; as likewise that mentioned by arnobius b in the right hand of bacchus , who often makes a figure in the forementioned . table . but this , as it referreth to joseph , is but conjecture ; scarce so much as opinion : i therefore dismiss it . yet i must not dismiss the argument it self , till i have further distinguished both concerning the objects or idols of that honour which is given from god ; and the ways by which it is translated from the proper to the false deity . these idols are either personal , internal , or external objects . by personal objects , i mean the idolaters themselves , who become their own statues , and worship their very selves by the estimation they have of their persons , as christs , or of their souls as real portions of the essence of god ; the fancy of some followers of plotinus of old , who said , their souls at death returned to the seminal reason ; and of some quakers at this time , who say , as edward burroughs c the morning before he departed this life , that his soul and spirit was centred in its own being with god. internal objects are the false idea's which are set up in the fancy , instead of god and his divine perfections . for he who fancieth god under the idea of indefinite amplitude or extension of matter , or of light or flame ; or under the notion of an irresistible tyrant ; and applies himself to him as such , without the use of any visible external statue or picture ; is as certainly an idolater , as he who worshippeth a graven image ; for he giveth divine honour to an idea which is not divine . only here , the scene being internal in the fancy , the scandal of the sin is thereby abated . external objects , are such which have a subsistence distinct from the phantasms which are by motion impressed on the brain . and the catalogue of these is a kind of inventory of nature . i will here give only a summary account of them , for the particulars are endless . idolaters have worshipped universal nature , the soul of the world , angels , the souls of men departed ; either by themselves , or in union with some star or other body . they have likewise worshipped the heavens , and in them both particular luminaries and constellations ; the atmosphere , and in it the meteors and fowls of the air ; the earth , and in it man , together with the accidents of which he is the subject , such as fortitude and justice , peace and war. and further , on earth they have deified beasts , birds , insects , plants , groves , hills , artificial and artless pillars and statues , pictures and hieroglyphics [ mean as that of the scaribee a it self , resembling the sun so many ways , as porphyrie fancieth ] together with divers fossils and terrestrial fire . they have furthermore adored the water [ particularly that fruitful one of the nile ] and in it , the fishes and serpents and insects ; as likewise the creatures which are doubtful inhabitants of either element ; such as the crocodile in egypt . kircher a hath found the temples of many of these idols , even in that polite nation of china : for he hath a scheme containing the temple of the queen of heaven , the temple of heaven , the altar of heaven , the temple of demons and spirits , the temple of the planet mars , the altar of the god of rain , the altar of the king of birds , the altar of the earth , the temple of the president of woods , the temple of mountains and rivers , the temple of the spirit of medicine , the temple of gratitude , and of peace , the temple of the president of mice , and of the dragon of the sea. menander , from epicharmus b summeth up the idols of the world under these fewer heads , of the wind , the water , the sun , the earth , the fire . but he is therefore deficient in his computation ; neither was it his purpose to make it accurate . thus the image of god who made all things , has ( as in a broken mirror ) been beheld , without due attention , in the several parts of the frame of the world , and by the foolish idolater distinctly adored : and this adoration being used towards external objects , and not confined to mans secret thoughts , hath with the more success and scandalous dishonour to god , been propagated in the world. and this remindeth me of the distinction which i designed also to make , betwixt the ways by which gods honour is derived on creatures . for it is either done by the inward estimation of the mind , directing its intention in an act or course of internal worship ; or by the external signs of religious reverence . it is done by both these together , or by either of them apart . there is no publick worship without manifest signs of it ; the heart in it self not being discern'd by mans eye , but discovering it self by external tokens . the ifraelites ( saith st. cyril ) worshipped the calf ; and they did it , by crying out these are thy gods ( f ) . . in them the mind and the outward signs of it went together . but others , by the meer outward shews of adoration , how unconcern'd soever they may have kept their minds , have committed idolatry : such as the thurificati in the primitive church , who believing the gospel , offered incense before an heathen idol ; that being made a sign of their departure from christianity , and their approbation of gentilism . they thereby did an act of open dishonour to the true god ; and they used external means apt to incline others , either to worship idols instead of him , or to confirm them , if they were already idolaters , in their detestable profaneness . such idolaters ( it may be ) were some englishmen , who went to sea with mr. davis , in the reign of queen elizabeth , in order to the discovery of a north-west passage to cataia , china , and east-india . on the th of july , in the year , b they discovered land in degrees and minutes of latitude bearing north-east from them . they found this land an heap of islands , on one of which they went on shoar . there some few of the natives made towards them ; and amongst that little herd of barbarous people , one pointed first upwards wirh his hand to the sun , and then smote his breast with very vehement force . the english aptly interpreting this sign as an acknowledgment of the deity of the sun , and an oath by that idol , of fidelity and peace , used the same sign themselves ; gaining thereby friendship and traffick with a few salvage people , at the expence of the most valuable thing , the honour of god. of this external honour , he is jealous , and he reserved it to himself , amongst the jews whom he had espoused , by express command , saying , lo tischtachaveh , thou shalt not , before an image or idol , put thy body into such a figure , as is a sign of worship . in the same sence ought to be interpreted the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of the seventy [ thou shalt not bow down ; ] the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not denoting there , a meer act of the mind , but of the body , either by bowing of its whole frame , or its head , or knee , or ( which the notation of the word particularly importeth ) by the kissing of the hand , a a common ceremony among the gentile idolaters ; and ancient as the times of job b three ways of exhibiting such external reverence are suggested by the psalmist c , where he calls upon the people , to worship with prostration , to bow , to kneel before god their creator . for the sake of external worship , solemn days and publick assemblies have in great part been appointed : by it , our light ( which retained in the heart only , is as a lamp burning in a sepulchre , ) doth so conspicuously shine before men , that it induceth them to an happy consent in glorifying god with us . by it , is maintain'd the visible society of gods church , whose outward communion is preserved by the external signs of words , gestures and actions , relating to the christian religion , and making up the profession of it . this communion he , in effect , renounceth , who pretending to the heart of a christian , hath the tongue of a blasphemer , or the gesture of an idolater : who , whatsoever secret thoughts he entertaineth concerning god , saith openly of him , that he is not supreme : or , what inward hatred soever he conceiveth against idols , sitteth in their temples , and eateth of their sacrifice . external ceremonies ( as is said d by the fathers of the synod of rhemes ) are therefore appointed , that by them a declaration may be made of our affection towards god. and common reason teacheth , that by giving away the outward signs of worship , we are prodigal of the internal honour of god , which cannot be preserved or advanced amongst societies of men , meerly by a secret and invisible intention . hitherto i have pursued the notion of idolatry in a positive way , according to the proper nature of worship , in which the act passeth towards the object . but it may not be amiss to take a little notice of a kind of negative impiety , which precedeth this positive false-worship ; and to which , some it may be would give the name of negative idolatry . i mean by this , that denial of any thing in the idea of god which is proper to it , succeeded by a worship of him according to that maimed and unagreeable idea . for the idea of god being so intire that , by any diminution , it becometh the idea of something else ; he that first removes part of the idea , and then adores the remainder ; adores , as god , that which is not like him . he , for instance sake , who denies the constancy of gods knowledg of human affairs , yet worships him at certain times , in which he owneth him to have that knowledg ( after the manner of those foolish gentiles who worshipped the sun by day , and revelled by night when they thought he saw not ; ) such a one , by breaking of such a necessary part of gods idea , as renders it not his image , and yet adoring it as such , first makes an idol , and then doth it homage . so the god of the muggletonians rob'd of his spirituality , immensity , subsistences ; what is he but their idol ? the premisses being considered , it will thence follow that in giving the honour of god , supreme or subordinate , to any other thing , be it internal idea , or personal principle , or outward object , with respect to any supposed , inherent , divine power , original or derived , or to any external relation , by internal worship , and by the external signs of it , or by either of them , consisteth the notion of idolatry ; the thing designed in this chapter . chap. iii. of the causes and occasions of idolatry in the world. it hath appeared in the foregoing chapter , what kind of evil idolatry is and how it hath spread it self into numberless branches . in this chapter , my purpose is to proceed further , and to inquire into the root of it , and to consider from what causes and occasions it hath sprung ; and on what rotten and irrational grounds it is bottom'd . the general cause of idolatry , is the degenerate estate of the soul , exerting it self in the headiness of the will , which hurrieth men to folly , under the wild conduct of imagination and sense . the scripture calleth this distemper , the vanity of the mind ; and to it it ascribeth the worship of idols . of such worshippers st. paul observeth , a that when they knew god , [ or had means of knowing him , by the reasoning of their minds , excited by the beauty , order , and excellence of his works of creation and providence ] , they glorified him not as god , neither were thankful ; but became vain in their imagination , and their foolish heart was darkened . in this estate of moral darkness they mistook , and confounded the objects they met with ; and honoured the creature instead of god. it is difficult , if not impossible , at this distance from persons and things , to tell the causes and occasions of all their mistakes : neither could it have been done fully by the wisest of those times . for the love of idols in some , like that of persons in others , was an unaccountable passion . that therefore which i here undertake , is not a full , certain , and manifest ; but a competent , and probable account . those who worshipped universal nature as an entire object , or the several visible parts of it distinctly , were led to such adoration , by one more general cause , and by divers which were more special . the more general cause of the worship of material nature , either in its own form , or in the shapes put upon it by art , is the natural inclination of the mind in this body to help it self by sensible objects . the substance of god almighty is not an object which our mind can comprehend , much less is our acutest sight able to reach it . this principle many own'd amongst the heathens . such were they mention'd by porphyrie b who , that they might signify the invisibility of gods essence , painted his statues with black . such were the egyptians , remembred by plutarch , who did therefore make the crocodile an emblem of god , because that creature , by the help of a pellucid membrane descending from his forehead , was able ( as they vulgarly conceited ) to see with closed eyes , without being seen . now man living , as it were , in the confines of heaven and earth , his coelestial mind being united to a body of gross flesh and blood ; his understanding receiveth instruction through the gates of the outward senses , and is , in especial manner , assisted by phantasms which light pictureth in the brain . this frame of man rendreth him covetous in his speculations , of the help of some external and visible object . and amongst the numerous progeny of mankind , there are very few heads metaphysical enough for that proverb of the arabians a ; shut up the five windows , that the house may be fill'd with light. it is the same thing to the vulgar , not to appear , and not to be ; and they would therefore have a visible deity , and one who might in a more bodily manner be present with them . for this reason , when osiris was worshipped throughout egypt , and his living image was visible only in the superior part of it , the metropolis of memphis ; the priests took occasion to set on foot a schism ; and those of heliopolis would also have a sacred bull , that their deity might be as visible and present to them , as to the other egyptians . this reason the brachman gave to monsieur bernier b for the erection of the statues of brahma , and of other deiitas or deities : to wit , that something might be before the eyes of the worshipper , for the fixing of his mind . of the like temper were the heathens spoken of by lactantius in his second book of the origine of error , c they were jealous lest all their religion should be a vain beating of the air , if they saw nothing present which they might adore . this affection then for sense , this wisdom of the flesh , is a general cause of the worship of material idols . but they being of divers kinds , have accordingly divers more special causes . such who worshipped universal nature , or the systeme of the material world , perceived first that there was excellency in the several parts of it ; and then , to make up the grandeur and perfection of the idea , they joyned them alltogether into one divine being . thus , probably , did idolaters : but atheists also serv'd themselves on this pretence , as they do at this day , seldome receding from any profitable art. such a one of old , was pliny , who maketh god and nature the same a . and such a one , in these times , is the bold author of tractatus theologico-politicus , b who defineth god , the infinite power of matter . those who worshipped nature in the parts of it , were such ( as pliny observeth ) who laboured under a weakness and narrowness of imagination . it was his opinion c , that frail and wearied mortality , mindful of its own infirm condition , distributed nature into its several parts , that every one might worship that portion of it which was useful to him . usefulness , indeed , was a common motive ; and cicero affirmeth ( in his first book of the nature of the gods ) that the egyptians consecrated no beast , from whence they did not derive some profit . and in his second book of the same argument , he citeth it , as the saying of perseus the scholar of zeno , that they were held to be gods , from whom great advantage accrued to mans life . neither is there any name so commonly given , amongst all nations , to divine power , as that which signifieth the goodness of it . such is the ancient kod of the germans , in the vocabulary of goldastus , and their more modern gott , or god d which we have borrowed from them . but usefulness , though it was a very common motive , yet it was not the only one which inclined the world to idolatry . for that which ravished with its beauty [ as the rainbow , worshipped , saith josephus acosta , by the peruvians ; though not by those of egypt who dwelt under a serene heaven ] : that which affrighted with its malignant power , [ as the thunder , worshipped , saith the same acosta , by the yncas of peru ; and by the ancient germans also , who as , grotius noteth , e called their god of heaven by the name of thorn , which signifieth him that thundereth ] : that which astonish'd with its greatness [ as the mighty swellings of the earth in high mountains , worshipped here by the ancient a britains ] : that , i say , which was beautiful , hurtful , b or majestick , became a deity , as well as that which profited with its use . now all these powers being united in the sun , whose beauty is glorious , whose heat scorcheth and refresheth , and is the cause of barrenness in some places , and in others of fruitfulness ; whose motion is admirable , whose globe of light appeareth highly exalted ; that , of all other parts of the visible world , hath been the celebrated idol . for other parts of insensible nature , lesser virtues were discerned in them : but their motion , and the cause of it , being either not known , or not consider'd , the gentiles esteemed of them as such subjects , in which a coelestial vigor resided . ignorance of nature was , in them , the mother of idolatry ; as ignorance in art was the cause of that admiration amongst the caribbians , which ascribed the effect of fire-locks c to a demon. on the same account garlick and onions obtain'd the reputation of deities in egypt . of such st. chrysostom somewhere taketh notice , and of the apology which they made , saying , that god was in the onion , though the onion was not god. by this onion , they meant not the common and very delicious one among them , which they were not forbidden to violate , but did daily eat it ; but a certain scilla which poysoned mice , and had a strange fiery virtue in it , and was called the eye of typhon . and i suppose it to be of the same kind with that , of which the juice was used in the lustration of menippus in lucian , when he was initiated into the mysteries of zoroaster d . it decreased saith [ saith kircher b ] in the increase of the moon ; and increased in the decrease of it : for the truth of which , let it rest upon the relato . concerning beasts , birds , fishes , and insects , they , in like manner , were ador'd for their beauty , their beneficial , hurtful , or astonishing properties . they were sometimes worshipped , for these and other such reasons , in the whole species of them : for so diana , being turn'd ( as they feigned ) into a merula , [ a mearl , or black-bird ] the whole kind of them was made sacred , in the quality of her living statues . sometimes some one sort of them was worshipped by reason of a particular effect of theirs , esteemed of with high veneration by the world. so the mice sminthoi were deified , c which eat in sunder the cables of the enemies of troas . likewise , such living creatures were worshipped as beings , which contained in them the souls of some departed hero's , friends , and benefactors ; or which were , themselves , portions of the soul of the world. beasts at this day , are upon both these accounts idoliz'd by the pendets of indostan d . and after this manner it is , that they explain the several appearances of their deity ; of which the first , they say , was in the nature of a lion , the second of a swine : a strange cabbala , and such as the jews themselves will disown . touching artificial things , and lifeless statues , the more jgnorant sort worshipped them for their surprizing form , and costly matter . such the bramins in india moved to the worship of the great idol resora fixed nigh jagrenate , which is one of the mouths of ganges . for they fram'd him very curiously , and set him forth very richly ; giving him two diamonds e for his eyes , and hanging another about his neck : and of these , the least weighed about fourty carats . others , not so very ignorant as to think , with the former , that the deity was gold or precious stones ; a venerated their images , as the places of residence of divine powers , or perhaps , as their bodies or closets ; their temples being their houses or common dwelling-places . these were sacred to their gods , not as shelters of their statues b from sun , wind , or rain ( as the heathens in arnobius cunningly apologize ) but as instruments whereby they might have their gods with them , behold them before their eyes , speak immediately to them , and with them , as present persons , mingle , as it were , their religious colloquies . many figures , statues , and images were made , at first , for very differing ends . they were made , as memorials of a departed child c , or friend , or hero d : as remembrancers of a living friend or governour , e remaining at a distance from us on earth ; as monuments of some great accidents in the world , and preservers of the memory of things to late posterity ; the use ( they say ) of the pillars of seth. likewise , they were made as mathematical instruments , as also as hieroglyphicks , and mystical emblems ; such as a dog , the emblem of sagacity ; and an egg , the hieroglyphick of the material world. the vanity of man , the imposture of the heathen priests , the artifice and splendour of the statues themselves f ; effects , apt to stir up admiration , which followed their setting up , or their remove , or their worship , though arising from other undiscerned causes ; together with a multitude of feigned stories concerning their original or their discovery : these things inclin'd the world to an opinion , that they were receptacles of divinity . each temple of the heathen was like that mentioned by lucian in his second book of true histories , a temple of imposture g : and many images were but the instruments of juglers . some of them were feigned to sweat and move [ as those in the great temple of syria , mention'd by the author b of the syrian goddess ] . some were made very beautifully ; and some in such horrid shapes , that they almost affright us in their pictures : such are those pictures which lorenzo pignoria has added c to the book of cartari , concerning the images of the ancient gods. some were in such manner contriv'd that they seem'd to hold immediate commerce with heaven : thus , in the image of serapis at alexandria , d a little window was so framed by art , that the sun shone on the eyes , lips , and mouth of it ; and that the people believed it to be kissed by that deity . some have been feigned to drop down from the heavens [ as those of troy and ephesus ] : some to have been transported from place to place , in the air , [ as the forementioned image of serapis , said to be translated , in a moment , from pontus to alexandria ] : and some , by direction of spirits , to have been digged out of the earth ; or to have been miraculously pulled out of the sea [ as the golden tripos of apollo ] . and pity it is that such arts should be used by them who profess the christian religion , which needeth no pious frauds for the support of it , but is best propagated , as it was from the beginning , by plain and sincere dealing . but some roman-catholicks have , too frequently , imitated the sophistry of the heathens ; and particularly , in promoting the dangerous worship of our lady , at loreto and guadalupa . it seems , that her image lay concealed in this latter place , for the space of more than years , till it was , by miracle ( as they say ) , after this manner discovered e . an heardsman seeking his strayed cow , found her at last , but to appearance dead . he went about , therefore , to take off her skin ; but whilst he was attempting of it , the beast , to his great astonishment , did miraculously revive . then , also , did the holy virgin appear to him in glorious splendor , and bid him not fear . and she , further , gave him order to call the ecclesiasticks of the city , and in her name to promise them , that if they digged in that place , they should find her image . the poor man fearing they would not believe his report , she promised to enable him with this sign : to wit , that he finding his child dead at home , should be able , by his word , to raise it to life again before them . this being done , the image is sought and found ( for they that hide , have ill memories if they can't find again ) ; and it is plac'd in a magnificent temple , and it becomes famous for working miracles [ true as that of its own discovery ] . by such arts as these , the people being induced to think that images were the dwelling-places of divine powers , it was difficult for them that had blind zeal , thenceforth , to suspend their religious veneration . the like means inclin'd them to worship beasts or birds , as shrines and living statues of some deity . thus the egyptians made the figure of the bird ibis the emblem of their delta , which it seems , by its open bill it represented a ; [ though my fancy conceiveth not how it could represent the basis of it ] and therefore , under the favour of schualenberg , it fixeth rather on the passus ibidis or trigon it made at every step . to this they added , that a certain medicine of extraordinary virtue was found out by those birds ; that a feather of them stupified the crocodile ; that they were hatch'd out of the egg of a basilisk ; that they defended egypt from the flying serpents of arabia . and this was enough , with that idolatrous nation , to turn the bodies of those birds , and the very figures of them likewise , into receptacles and treasuries of celestial virtue ; and to give religious honour to them . concerning men on earth , the pride and pomp of the great , and the low and slavish dispositions of the mean , begat sometimes the flattery , sometimes the worship of them , as gods in humane shape . this honour was arrogated by nebuchadnezzar , who erected a mighty colossus of gold to no other deity than himself , requiring sacrifice and religious adoration to be offered to it : which when sidrac , misach and abednego refused to do , he expostulated with them after the manner of an eminent deity , saying , what god is there potent enough to deliver you out of my hands ? of this blasphemous arrogance there were many instances in succeeding ages , and that of alexander cannot escape the common reader ; and he may find too many others in the book of political idolatry , written by the learned filesacus . this kind of idolatry flatterers helped forward , and promoted as much as in them laid , even amongst christian princes . they fram'd for them the heavenly stile of [ their divinity , and their divine precept : ] words said to be used by theodosius and valentinian themselves . a pacatus drepanius , in his panegyric to theodosius the great , describes the emperour , as one , from whom navigators expect a calm sea ; travellers , a safe return ; and soldiers victory . and of constantine the son of constantius , the uncertain author of his panegyrick affirmeth in deep complement ; that his beauty was great as his divinity was certain . but much of this flattery is so gross , that it can scarce be swallowed by the common people , who , in private , smile at their own publick fawnings . for spirits of all kinds ; men have seen some apparitions , and heard of more : they have also had notions in the brain , representing to them images as spectres in the air : they have rightly judged the soul so divine in its operations , as to superexist : they have seen many external effects , and could not guess at the cause , or ascribe it with such probability to nature , as to some higher invisible power : they have seen appearances in the heavens ; and the very appearances have form'd in their fancy , the counterfeit idea of a spirit . for so the heathen of the eastern india a believed the shadow of the moon on the eclipsed sun , to be a black demon contending with it . men thus believing , partly from good , and partly from fanciful reasons , the existence of demons and ghosts ; and apprehending them , truly , as more spiritual , active , and superiour beings ; it is not to be admired that their weakness ador'd them as dispensers of good and evil here below . touching souls departed in particular ; gratitude deified some , but admiration put more names into the calendar . the people were transported by their power and splendor on earth , and they thought their puissance would increase in higher regions . souls appeared otherwise to their mind , than bodies do to the eye , to which they seem the lesser the higher they ascend . and to this end , the devil was wont to represent ghosts unto the eye or fancy of the gentiles in vast proportions b . such mighty figures jamblichus , where he writeth of the egyptian mysteries , ascribeth to principalities and archangels . so that solomon c might aptly call the state of the dead , the congregation of [ rephaim ] or gyants . towards the advancement of the souls of heroes in the opinions of the idolizers of them , much was contributed , by strange appearances , real or invented , at the time of their death . so the soul of paul the hermite was the more divinely esteemed of , because s. anthony ( as they tell us ) saw it flying to heaven a . so julius caesar became one of the roman gods , whilst a comet b shining for seven days together , was judg'd to be his soul receiv'd into glory . and this conceit they further inculcated , by adding a star to the top of his statue . such canonization of heroes hath likewise been promoted by strange effects , done or counterfeited at their sepulchres ; and sometimes by their obscure manner of going out of the world , which the people esteem'd an heavenly translation . empedocles hoping this way to arrive at divine honour , threw himself secretly into the flames of aetna ; but his two pattens which that gulf of fire cast up , discovered his vain and miserable end . concerning the soul of the world , men seeing in all parts of the creation motion and virtue judged erroneously of the greater world , as they did truly of the lesser world of man ; and made one soul to be the sovereign principle which actuated every part of it . and some of the stoicks c esteem'd this soul as a form informing the universe : but the platonists judged it rather a form assistant , imagining it unsutable to its deity to be mixed with , or vitally united to the grossest subcelestial matter ; and to have perception of all the motions of it . this conceit is driven very far by the indian cabalists , or pendets d . creation ( say those doctors ) is nothing else but an extraction and an extension which god maketh of his own substance , of those webs he draws from his own bowels ; as destruction is nothing else but a reprisal , or taking back again of this divine substance , and these divine webs into himself ; so that the last day of the world , which they call maperle or pralea , when they believe that all shall be destroyed , shall be nothing else but such a general reprisal . this conceit , in the superstitious , maketh all things in nature adorable as parts of god : and in the atheistical it deifieth nothing at all ; for at the bottom of this imagination , they think they see not god but nature . with them a coelum is the material heaven , juno is the upper air , neptune is the natural cause of water in the caverns of the earth , pluto is the thick air next to this globe , and rhea is the natural cause of showers . towards all the idolatries already mention'd , much was contributed by the figurative expressions of orators , especially by their apostrophe's in the encomiums of departed hero's ; as also by the elegant fictions of poets , whose invention hath been justly reputed one of the great store-houses of idols . and for the idolatry of qualities , i know not whence to fetch it so readily as by going thither . for though the first ground of it was the consideration of many of these qualities , in their eminent degree , as means by which the pagan heroes were deified b ; yet poetry helped on that cause , by shaping these qualities into personal powers , negotiating , as it were , betwixt heaven and earth , and conveighing them , as the angels did the soul of lazarus , into a more heavenly habitation . poets design to move , to surprize , to make deep impression on the people . they cannot do this so readily , by proposing abstracted truths to the mind , as by cloathing them in such metaphors and pictures as may affect the brain . hence it is that they have used such a variety of fictions , in which they have cloathed every thing they say , with the appearances of a person . peace , and war , fame and justice , have such personal shape and action given to them , as is necessary for the making a greater impression upon the hearers . for ( to give an ordinary instance in this matter ) it doth not so much affect us when a man says barely , that a kingdom shall want supplies of bread , as when he describes famine riding towards us pale and meager upon a sceleton of man or beast attended with thousands of such ghastly objects ; from whence the uncloathed bones stare upon us , and tell us that we after the dreadful extremities of hunger and thirst , enforcing us to prey upon toads and serpents , upon our relations , and our very selves , shall become lean , languishing , dying , as they . by this transitory view of the causes and occasions of idolatry , so full of folly , error , and mistake , it manifestly appeareth , upon what weak and clay-like feet the idols stand , which the world hath worship'd with so vigorous a devotion . chap. iv. of the time in which the vanity of man introduced idolatry into the world. the nature and causes of idolatry being considered , i intend in the next place to inquire into the time of its birth , so far as the silence or uncertainty of tradition will permit . it is one of the aphorisms of philo the elder ( if he were the author of the book of wisdom ) , that idols a were not from the beginning : and it is a question among the learned , whether idolatry was any of those pollutions which defiled the old world , and brought the deluge upon it . it doth not appear that it was extant before the flood ; and many believe it to be no older than cham. tertullian , it is true , was of opinion that idolatry began in the days of seth , and that enoch restored true religion , and is for that reason said in scripture to have walked with god. he hath given us his opinion , but he hath concealed the grounds of it : and i can think of nothing so likely to move him to this belief , as the reverence he had for the fictitious prophesie of henoch , which he often citeth b , and in which are contained severe comminations , both against the makers , and worshippers of idols . s. cyril of alexandria is much of another mind , affirming in his first book against julian the apostate , c that all men , from adam to the days of noah , worshipped that god who by nature was one . and he strengtheneth his opinion with this reason d , because no man is [ by moses ] accused as a worshipper of other gods , and impure demons . if that false religion had then set foot in the world , it would scarce have escaped that divine historian ; but he would , in likelihood , both have mention'd it plainly , and severely reproved it . for this is no sin of a mean stature : it is , in the judgment of tertullian a , the principal crime of mankind , the chief guilt of the world ; the total cause of gods judgment , or displeasure . he meaneth that it is a kind of mother-sin , containing in it all other evils , on which the judg of the world passeth sentence of condemnation . lactantius goeth higher still in his censure of it b , giving to it the name of an inexpiable wickedness . and s. gregory nazianzen sheweth what apprehension he had of the greatness of this guilt , when he calleth it c the last and first of evils . so monstrous a sin , if it had been in those early times committed , it would , a man would think , have been as soon reflected on by moses , as the violence or injustice which then filled the earth , d or the unclean mixtures of the sons of god e with the daughters of men : [ that is , as i guess , ( in the same sense in which the tall trees of lebanon are called the cedars of god ) the unbridled appetites of the high and potent , who made their power subservient to their lust . ] in the infancy of the world , there were many causes which might prevent the sin of idolatry . by the fresh date of it from the creation , in which god , almost beyond miracle it self , discovered his almighty being and oneness ; by the appearance of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or son of god to adam and others [ of which appearance , largely afterwards ] ; by the long-lives of adam and seth , and the rest of the holy line , who could often inculcate to their families , what themselves were so abundantly assured of ; and possibly also , by the conviction of him who was the head of the degenerate line , unrighteous cain himself , who having seen god in his shechinah , could not propagate either direct atheism or idolatry , though he was the father of evil manners : by these , and perhaps by other causes to us unknown , it might come to pass , that the worship of idols was either not in being , or at least , not in frequent exercise in those first generations . we know nothing of those times but by the pen of moses ; and a doubtful word of his a hath inclin'd some to refer the origine of idolatry to the days of enos . in his time ( saith moses ) men began to profane , as some would render his text , instead of translating it as our church doth , to call upon , the name of the lord. it is true that the hebrew word , hochal , doth sometimes signifie prophaned : but there is no reason which may enforce such an exposition of it in this place ; the name of god having been formerly profaned , and with great irreverence abused in the irreligious families of cain and lamech . neither is the termination of our worship on the creature , instead of the sovereign god , the only prophanation of his holy name . a rude tongue , and an immoral life commit that offence ; and not only an idolatrous mind or body . such profaneness the arabian metaphrast imputeth to that time , whilst he thus turneth the hebrew of moses : then began men to recede from their obedience to god. but to me , the chaldee interpreter seemeth to come nigher to the scope of the words , the sense of which he expresseth in this manner : in those days men began to make supplications in the name of the lord. that is , the numbers of families increasing in the days of enos , they appointed more publick places for gods service , in which at set-times , they might together , and in a more solemn congregation , worship their great creator . i must confess that this exposition doth much disagree with the mind of maimonides . for he doth not only refer a the beginning of idolatry to the times of enos , but he accuseth enos himself of that gross and stupid wickedness . for thus he begins that short book which he hath written on that subject . in the days of enos men erred very greatly ; and the minds of the wise-men of that age were overborn with stupidness : even enos himself was one of them who thus erred . now this was their error , the worship of the stars . a very rash and rude reflexion upon so holy a patriarch , and relishing of rabbinical dotage . for certainly divers of those writers , if any others , have had a flaw in their imaginations ; though maimonides , amongst them all , may be allowed the largest intervals of sobriety . from cham , therefore , rather than from enos , the learned derive the beginning of idolatry ; though i know not whether , under him , it may not be dated a little too soon . the heart of cham being before the flood deeply depraved , it was rather hardened by the escape , than warned by the mighty danger of that general deluge . insomuch that it was just with god to give him up to the further seducement of his sensuality , and to the visible power of the old serpent , who may seem to have been , for a time , chained down by the curse in paradise , but was now ( as i conjecture ) let loose again for the punishment of those , whom gods severe and miraculous discipline did not cleanse of their folly . he therefore is esteemed the father of idolatry , that monster in religion , which in his corrupt loyn was , by degrees , multiplied into innumerable heads . but s. cyril of alexandria , in two places beginneth idolatry at the confusion of languages , and with belus rather than cham b ; esteeming the difference of their dialects , and the distraction of their opinions concerning god , to have commenced together b . for the critical minute , it is uncertain ; yet for the first objects of idolatry , we may assent to him ; and them he makes to be the sun and the other heavenly bodies : but the sun in the first place . that was the most glorious object which ravished the eye , and it shewed it self no-where more gloriously than in the plains of chaldea . in those plains the tower of babel was built , and ( as my private imagination leadeth me to think ) consecrated by the builders to the sun , as to the most probable cause of drying up mighty waters . this tower is thought to have beenbuilt inpyramidal form , according to thescheme which we have of it in the frontispiece of verstegan . and this form was not improper ( though much unlike the figure of its globe ) because it expressed its fiery nature ; the fire ascending in a conical shape . the ancients ( saith porphyry c cited by eusebius ) did set forth the nature of fire by pyramids and obelisks ; and dedicated statues of divers figures to the olympick gods , as a cone to the sun , and a cylinder to the earth . but all will not allow this kind of reasoning to have place here ; such philosophical considerations being thought by them matters much later than the times of babel . but for the building of towers or pyramids as altaria , or high altars , to the sun and other heavenly bodies , the practice is ancient , and very general . the sun was not , meerly , a god of the hills ; yet the heathen thought it suitable to his advanced station , to ascend them , and to worship him upon ascents , either natural , or , as was necessary in such flat countries , artificial ; that they might come as nigh as they could to the deity they worshipped . accordingly abenephius the arabian , in kircher a , testifieth that the pyramids of egypt were called , by their priests , the altars of the gods , and that they wrote on them theological mysteries . the same kircher noteth , b that the coptites called them the pillars and altars of deities : that bama is said , by vatallus , to signifie properly a very high place for sacrifice ; that such a one is mentioned by virgil , as sacred to juno : and that lucan c speaketh of pyramids , as the egyptian priests and coptites had done . the pyramids of egypt were raised upon certain square platforms set one upon the other , and gradually lessening until they ended in one least and blunt square of stone . monsieur vattier , the arabick professor of the french king , believed those blunt-tops to have been as pedestals for some colosses or obelisks . they might be sometimes put to that use , though not at first designed for it . for caligula was pleased to set his head on the shoulders of the statues of the grecian gods ; yet those statues were not made to serve as such supporters . that learned professor might , possibly , have made a truer conjecture from a short passage in the arabian murtadi , whose book he translated . for murtadi d speaks of the maritine pyramid , as of a temple of the stars , on which were placed the figures of sun and moon . such a tower was that ( as i suppose ) which the tausi of china built , of a sudden , in the piazza of pekin e . they built it in pyramidal form , with tables upon tables , till it ended in one supreme table : and on that they prayed for rain , which the sun , the original jupiter pluvins , doth as a natural cause , both send and remove . the corinthian tower once belonged to sol f : and it is very probable , that the sun was of old worshipped on a very high mountain in crete : the hill , in the time of peter martyr of angleria a , was called by the name of the hill of jove , though the cretians were then great strangers to their ancient demonology . a late traveller b hath informed us of a pyramidal tower in mexico , on the top of which the heathen priests worshipped towards the sun , an american deity . i should have thought that he had meant the same with cortesius c , and that which he called the fane of the id●… horcolivo's . but they differ much in their measu●… : and the ascent of the former is said to be by steps ; the latter by no less than an hundred and thirty . among the apalachites of florida d , the priests of the sun , called by the remarkable name of jaovas , worshipped their idol on the top of a very high , round , steep and rocky hill ; a full league in its winding ascent . the builders of the hill or tower of babel , surely , designed that much higher yet ; so high that it might hide its head in the clouds , and would , it may be , have put it , had it been finished , to the like idolatrous use . it is reasonable for me , here to expect an objection from the scripture , which seemeth to impute the building of the tower of babel to another end . come , say the builders in the eleventh of genesis e , let us make us a name , lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the earth . to this objection two things may be replied ; first , the end expressed is not exclusive of that which i supposed ; and it is not a wonder , if vain men to encourage one another , how many ends soever they had , did propound that of their pomp and glory . secondly , these builders designed a city , and not only a tower which was but the appendix to it , though such a necessary one as an altar is to a temple . and their design of getting them a name , might rather refer to the city , than distinctly to the tower. they intended to build a place of fixed residence , which might be , as it were , the head , and center , and metropolis of all towns , whenever their families should so encrease as to need further room for habitation . they were resolved against the incommodities of a wandring life , and they purposed to unite themselves into a more orderly body , and to become a corporation instead of a multitude . and this was the way to get them a name , to be the first city of the world , and to be owned as the mother-place of all nations . but i am not so fond of this private fancy , as to contend further about the legitimacy of it . in this i am more assured , that the lights of heaven , which in the clear firmament of those countries , appeared so often and in such lustre , ( whilest the sun by day shone gloriously ; and the moon and stars shewed beautifully in the night , to them who lay either on the ground , or on flat roofs , and found no evil influence from them ) ; and which obtained afterwards the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from their continual motion , were the first idols of the world. amongst these , the sun excelling , he was made the principal idol , and was nowhere more in honour than at babylon . accordingly we read , so soon , of bell , [ the babylonian ] and baal [ the phenician and hebrew name ] , in the theology of the gentiles , this idol was originally , and principally , the sun ; though great men likewise , when deified after their deaths , obtained that name , as a title of highest renown . and from the many names of canonized heroes , given to the sun , hath risen a great part of that uncertainty and confusion , with which the reader is perplexed in the labyrinths of heathen mythologers . this , however , is generally confessed , that the sun was the first idol ; instead of which why jarchi a hath put men or herbs into the first place , is hard to understand , till he come , and be his own elias . maimonides begins with the stars , and he hath ground , not only from natural reason , but from the authority also of job and moses . job b thus expresseth the idolatry of those ancient times in which he lived . if i beheld the sun when it shined , or the moon walking in brightness . and my heart hath been secretly enticed , or my mouth hath kissed my hand : [ if , with devotion of soul , or profession of outward ceremony , i have worshipped those heavenly bodies which by their heighth , motion and lustre , ravish the senses ] : this also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge ; for i should have denied the god that is above . moses giveth caution to the people of israel c who were coming out of that idolatrous land of egypt , and were journeying towards idolatrous canaan [ who were coming from temptation , and going likewise towards it ] ; that when they lifted up their eyes to the heavens , they should arm their minds against that inchantment to which they were subject by the sensible glory of the sun , moon and stars . rabbi levi ben gerson d glossing upon this place in moses , observeth that the sun is first named , because his vertues are most manifest . the most ancient inhabitants of the world ( saith diodorus siculus , meaning them that lived soon after the flood , and particularly the e egyptians ) contemplating the world above them , and being astonished with high admiration at the nature of the universe , believed that there were eternal gods ; and that the two principal of them were the sun and the moon : of which they called the first osiris , and the second isis. and of late years , when the mariners compass directed men to a new world in america [ peopled , no doubt , from several distant parts of the old ; ] many different idols were found in peculiar places ; but for the sun , it was a deity both in mexico and peru. babylon was the mother of this kind of idolatry ; not egypt , as the author de dea syria a , and some in diodorus siculus b , who make sol the first king of it , have erroneously conjectured . for egypt was not a nation when the sun began to be worshipped in chaldea , where ur , it may be in aftertimes , with respect to the worship of that hot luminary , was a kind of lesser babylon . babylon infected egypt , assyria , phaenicia ; and they spread the contagion throughout the world. to the worship of the sun , moon and stars , and other appearances in heaven or the air , such as comets and meteors , ( for the worship of the former , was apt to draw on that of the latter ) succeeded the false religion towards heroes , confounded , as i guess , with original demons or angels . and this came to pass in the days of serug , according to eusebius , epiphanius , and syncellus , the sun was no sooner called bel , baal , or el , that is , lord or governour , but the souls of men of renown were also flattered with like appellations , and became properly the idols of the people . nimrod and osiris were baals ; and the king of phaenicia was bel ; and they had religious veneration payed to them . if other demons were worshipped ( as no doubt they were , being permitted to appear to them ) ; it is a question whether the gentiles did not , by them , misunderstand the deified souls of some of their ancestors , distinctly , or confusedly remembred ; rather than natural genii , or angels : for such beings owed much of their manifestation , as such , to the tradition conveyed in the loyn of abraham and moses . the worship of demons was followed by that of pillars or artless monuments of remembrance a . such a monument was that pillar anointed by jacob. it was no idol in the quality in which he made it , but a record of the divine presence : but it is commonly thought that others did take from it a pattern of their follies . statues or images were of a like antient date , as is plain from the history of the teraphim , though artists were then rare : the infancy of this new world being , also , the infancy both of mechanical and liberal arts. idolaters likewise chose for their deities , living statues , such as the bull in egypt for the heavenly taurus , according to lucian b , or rather for the deity of the sun , or of an hero , according to truth . pausanias , in his survey of greece , findeth stones sharpened at the top , to have been the earliest symbols of their gods. [ they were , it may be , cones relating to the sun , the parent of fire , which , as was before noted , ascendeth a pyramis , ] and was thought to be an element of triangular figure by the ancient philosophers of greece c . ] scaliger , in that learned appendix of his to his book of the emendation of the accounts of time , doth mention rude stones , as the original statues in phenicia . what the first symbols amongst the romans were , is not distinctly understood . one would guess by numa's temple , they were symbols of the universe . but for particular images , we have it upon the good authority of a most learned roman d , that an hundred and seventy years were passed ere they came in amongst them . under christianity ; the vanity and veneration of images succeeded the symbol of the cross. at this day the barbarians on the coasts of africa reverence stones , like our greater land-marks , as fetiches or divine statues e ; believing them to be as ancient as the world it self . it appeareth by this short account of the original of idols , that they may plead antiquity : but still their age is nothing , if we compare it to his who is god everlasting . chap. v. of those who are charged with idolatry ; and of the conformity or inconformity of their worship to the nature of idolatry . of gentiles , jews , mahometans , christians . amongst them who have professed christianity , of the gnosticks , manichees , arrians , socinians , roman-catholicks , the real catholicks of the communion of the church of england . and first of the idolatry charged on the gentiles . part . how far the gentiles were ignorant of one supreme god. i have insisted hitherto , on the nature , occasions , and commencement of idolatry . the next consideration shall extend to the persons charged with it , and in the first place , to them who have first and most generally transgressed ; that is to say , the gentiles . concerning their worship , it is here proper for me to attempt the resolution of three questions . first , whether the gentiles acknowledged one supreme god. secondly , whether they made religious application to him . thirdly , whether upon the concession of such acknowledgment and application , they may be , and really are chargeable with idolatry . first , then , i enquire how far the gentiles owned one supreme god. this enquiry is not capable of any nice and accurate resolution . for there is no one systeme of the gentile theology ; as there is of judaism , mahometanism , and the christian religion . divers persons , in divers places , had divers apprehensions concerning a deity ; and divers rites of worship . and those distinct rites , by the commerce of nations , were often so mixed together , that they made a new kind of religion . it is not unlikely , that the dregs of the people among the gentiles , whom god had given up to brutishness of mind , did rise little higher than objects of sense . they worshipped many of them together ; each as supreme in its kind , or no otherwise unequal than the sun and the moon , or the other coelestial bodies , by the adoration of which , the ancient idolaters , as job a intimateth , denied [ or excluded ] the god that is above . porphyry himself , one of the most plausible apologists for the religion of the gentiles , doth own in some , the most gross and blockish idolizing of mean objects . he telleth us b that it is not a matter at which we should be amaz'd , if most ignorant men esteemed wood and stones divine statues , seeing they who are unlearned , look upon monuments which have inscriptions on them , as ordinary stones ; and esteem valuable tables as pieces of common wood ; and regard books no otherwise than as so many bundles of paper . sensible objects arrested the stupid and unactive minds of the vulgar , who ( like those indevout c idolaters of japan ) reason'd no further concerning the original , or government of the world. for few heads are exercised by philosophy ; and we meet not with one peasant of a thousand among our selves , who asks how the sun enlightens this globe , though he believes the body of it no bigger than his bushel . such heads are inclined to turn the truth of god into a lie ; to exchange the sovereign deity for that which is esteemed a god , but is not ; and to multiply the kinds of it , according to the variety of considerable effects and appearances whose causes are only known to the secretaries of nature . it is more probable still , that many gentiles reached no higher in their devotion than to demons . saint paul taxeth them a with offering to devils and not to god. the same apostle inform'd the lycaonians b , that the design of his preaching , was the converting of men from vanities [ that is , from their many idols which were not what they were judged to be : which being no deities , were in that respect nothing , and vanity ] unto one god , the true and living god ; from whom therefore , these many idols had withdrawn many of the heathen . the inferiour objects had thrust the superiour out of possession , as in the case of that woman under the papacy , who is said to have forsaken god for the virgin ; and the virgin in heaven , for that lady ( as she called her ) which she saw before her eyes in the church c . divers idols ( i say ) might crowd the sovereign god out of their minds , jehovah might be banished whilst their imaginations were filled with many hundreds of jupiters ; with no fewer than thirty thousand in the account of hesiod , if he swelleth not the reckoning with names , and sir-names , instead of distinct gods. some of the gentiles who knew god [ that is , had means by the things that are seen d of ascending to the knowledg of the invisible creator ] did notwithstanding not truly know him ; nor reach him by that wisdom or vain sort of philosophy a which did not edifie them , though it puffed them up . part . of their worship of universal nature , &c. as god. this is the common oppinion , concerning many of the gentiles ; but there is not sufficient reason to believe the same thing concerning them all . for it is evident from the history of ancient and modern idolatry , and from the writings of some of the gentiles ; that the acknowledgment of one supreme deity was not wholly banished from all parts of the pagan world. but herein , likewise , some of them greatly erred . for , first , there were those amongst them who acknowledged universal nature , as that one supreme deity . this deity the egyptians vailed , sometimes under the names of minerva and isis , before whose temple sai , as plutarch witnesseth , this inscription was to be read : i am all that which was , and is , and will be hereafter . and in her image were placed the emblems of all the kinds of things with which nature is furnished b . such a deity the arcadians worshipped under the proper title of pan , who as pornutus contendeth c , is the same with the universe . the same pornutus proceedeth , in shewing , that his lower part was shaggy , and after the fashion of a goat ; and that by it , was meant the asperity of the earth . bardesanes syrus d describeth at large the statue of the universe , by which the brachmans worshipped nature . it was an image of ten or twelve cubits in heighth : it had its hands extended in the form of a cross. it had a face masculine on the one side , and feminine on the other . it had the sun on one of its breasts , and on the other the moon : and on the arms were to be seen a very great number of angels , together with the heavens , mountains , seas , rivers , the ocean , plants and animals ; and such other parts in nature as make up the universe . yet i cannot say that this was the statue of their supreme deity : for they tell us , concerning it , that this was the image which god set before his son when he made the world , as a pattern by which he should form his work. but i may say it more truly , of some worshippers of isis , that they supposed her supreme , and did adore her , not , with others , as the inferiour earth , but in the quality ( as i just now noted ) of universal nature . so pignorius hath taught us a , and before him , servius and macrobius . hence was it that the infcription on an antient marble at capua , owneth isis as all things b . a like opinion may be , with ground , entertained concerning vesta , and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , fire , or sun , in the midst of her temple ; as plutarch in numa hath suggested . wherefore no image was consecrated to her besides that of her temple , which by its roundness , denoted the world , and by its sempiternal fire , the sun in it . that fire was renewed , each year , on the first of march c , in allusion , sure , to the vigour of that planet which then beginneth , in especial manner , to comfort those parts of the earth . others again , amongst the gentiles , ador'd the sun , as the one sovereign deity . such were they in julius firmicus , who expressed their devotion in this form . o sol ! thou best and greatest of things ! thou mind of the universe ▪ thou guide and prince of all d . a like egyptian form , translated out of that language , by euphantus , is remembred by porphyrie ; and thus it beginneth e . o sun thou lord of all , and ye the rest of the gods ! there euphantus ( as may be probably imagined ) found baal , or some such word , in the original egyptian ; and gave us instead of it , the greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . such honour of the sun we find on the antient egyptian obelisk interpreted by hermapion a , and restored to its antient beauty , by sixtus quintus . on it the sun is set forth as god ; as the sovereign disposer of the world which , it seems , he committed to the government of king ramestes . others there were who mistook for the one supreme god , the soul of the world , and , it may be , thought the sun the head in that great animated body , or the place of that souls principal residence . on this fashion , osiris , in macrobius b , describeth his godhead . the heavenly world is my head ; my belly the sea ; my feet the earth : in heaven are my ears , and for my all-seeing eye , it is the glorious lamp of the sun. pornutus likewise , reciting the dogmata of the heathen theology , discourseth c to this effect . as we [ men ] are governed by a soul , so the world hath its soul also , by which it is kept in frame : and this soul of the world is called jupiter . aristotle himself doth somewhere stile god , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a mighty animal : so apt are the highest aspirers in philosophy to fall , sometimes into wild and desperate errors . amongst the romans who excelled varro in knowledg ? and yet s. austin saith of him , that he believed no higher god than the soul of the world d , but that by disgusting images , as debasers of religion , he approached nigh to the true god. others , both in egypt and persia , worshipped for the true god , a part only of his idea ; whilst they removed from it , the justice and mercy of sending , preventing , or taking away , any temporal evils in which they thought the supreme deity not concerned ; whilst they believed certain demons to be the chastizers of those who had not purged themselves sufficiently from matter a . part . how far the gentiles owned one true god. but it is not fair to fight always on the blind-side of nature . i come therefore in the next place , to acknowledg , that some gentiles used a diviner reason than others , and owned one supreme god , the king of the world , and a being distinct from the sun , or the universe , or the soul of it . this appeareth from the confession of many christians ; and from the words of the gentiles themselves . first , divers of the fathers , though they shew the generality of their gods to have been but creatures , yet they confess they had amongst them , some apprehension of one supreme , eternal deity . s. chrysostom , in a second discourse in his sixth tome concerning the trinity b , doth charge upon the arians and macedonians the crime of renewing gentilism , whilst they professed one great god , and another deity which was less , and created . for it is gentilism ( said that father ) which teacheth men to worship a creature , and to set up one great [ or greatest ] god , and others of inferiour order . in this discourse st. chrysostom acknowledgeth that the gentiles adored the one sovereign god ( for him the arians believed in , and were in that point good theists , though no orthodox christians ) , notwithstanding he accuseth them of subordinate polytheism . s. cyril of alexandria speaks the same thing , and in more plain and direct words c . it is manifest ( said he ) that they who phylosophized after the greecian manner , believed and professed one god , the builder of all things , and by nature superiour to all other deities . and ( to come to the second way of proof above mentioned ) s. cyril is very copious in the authorities which he produceth out of the heathen writers , in order to the strengthening of his assertion , that they believed in one infinite god. he introduceth orpheus a speaking as divinely as david himself . god is one , he is of himself , of him are all things born , and he ruleth over them all . he again , after he had cited many philosophers , bringeth in the poet sophocles , as one that professed the true god ; and the words which he there calleth to mind , are worth the transcribing b . of a truth , there is one god , who made the heavens , and the spatious earth , and the goodly swelling of the sea , and the force of the wind. but many of us mortals , erring in our hearts , have erected images of gods made of wood , or stone , or gold , or ivory , as supports of our grief : and to these we have offered sacrifices and vain panegyricks ; conceiting in that manner that we exercised piety . he forbeareth not , after this , to cite orpheus again c , and the verses have their weight , and contain this sense in them . i adjure thee , o heaven ! thou wise work of the great god! i adjure thee thou voice of the father , which he first uttered , when he founded the whole world by his counsels . the father calls to mind , likewise , many sayings of porphyry , and of the author falsly called trismegist . but they were too well acquainted with christianity , to have authority in this argument of the one god of the gentiles . such a gentile [ one who dreamt not of any gospel ] was anaxagoras , who ( as plutarch testifies ) did set a pure and sincere mind over all things , instead of fate and fortune . in laertius , we may hear him speaking in his own words ; and they admit of this interpretation a . all things were together [ or in a chaos ] : then came the mind and disposed them into order . but on this declaration of anaxagoras i will not depend ; because his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or mind , might be such as the platonick 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or soul of the world. i like better the words of architas the pythagorean b , who speaks of god in the singular , and says he is supreme , and governs the world. but nothing is more close to the purpose than that which hath so often been said by plato . it is his opinion recited in timaeus locrus c , that god is the principal author and parent of all things . and this he adds , after an enumeration of the several beings of which the universe consisteth . he affirmeth in his politicus , “ that god d made the great animal of the world , and that he directeth all the motions of it : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and that there are not two gods governing the world with differing counsels . in his sophista e he determineth that god was the maker of things , which were not [ that is , as such ] before he framed them . in his timaeus f he calleth god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the maker and father of every being : adding , that it is difficult to find out this father of the universe ; and that when he is found out , it is not fit to declare him to the vulgar . he was , it seems , a jehovah not ordinarily to be named . they who have read his works with care , know what distinction he maketh betwixt g god and the gods : and how he extolleth the divine goodness , and maketh it the very essence of the supreme god. it is , indeed , to be acknowledged , that he set up other gods , in his scheme of the universe : nay , that he owned a second , or third 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or artist of that great and noble frame of the visible world. but both he and his disciples , what other principle soever they taught or believed , they still maintained it to be distinct from the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] the one supreme uncompounded good. plato , in his timaeus a , teacheth expresly that the soul of the world , which he calleth a blessed god , was made by the god who is eternal . timaeus locrus b supposeth the world to be framed by the supreme god , and the soul to be put into the middle of it by him that framed it : as if god made the world after the manner in which he made adam . and sallustius the platonist , in his book of god and the world c , treateth professedly of the first cause ; concludeth a necessity of its oneness ; and celebrateth its virtue as so eminent , that it can scarce be expressed by any words . the truth is , those gentiles who , with sallust , admired god as the first and incomprehensible cause ; and with mercurius in stobaeus d , declared him to be a being abstruse to the mind , and impossible to the tongue ; such gentiles , i say , would have erred less , had they stopped there , and not gone about to explane the mode of his essence and operation , whereby they have fallen into many false idea's , and particularly into that of the soul of the world. but makers of hypotheses , especially in subjects of such extent , do commonly lose themselves in their own labyrinths . that hypothesis of the soul of the world is frequent , at this day , amongst the philosophers of india : and yet that sect of the benians which is called samarath a , maintaineth the notion of a superior god. they call him permiseer , and believe him to be the first cause which created the world , and which governeth and preserveth the universe , with a sovereign and unchangeable power . change here but names , and the matter may be applyed to the philosophy of plato , who believed in one god , though he idoliz'd his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or universal soul , and too many other deities of inferiour rank . this , in brief , was the state of the greeks , in relation to the knowledg of god. like to it was that of the romans ; and of them also , whence the greeks and romans borrowed some valuable notions , together with much dross , that is , the egyptians . a and they doubtless were beholding to abraham , to joseph , to moses , to the jews , who both before and after the captivity came amongst them . by such means , and by the study of nature , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and jove of the greeks and romans came nigh , as well in sense , as in similitude of letters , to the mosaic jehovah . numa pompilius , whose religion inclin'd the people to chuse him king after the death of romulus , to the end that the empire which was obtained by force , might be governed by piety and justice b , as the historian telleth us , it was in his reign ; numa , i say , had studied in egypt , and he brought some of its religion into italy some ages before pythagoras c set foot there . it was not pure religion ; for he introduced the worship of the immortal gods , d and the superstition of augury . he , in the worship of vesta , offered to them universal nature as the great deity ; but cannot be thought to have been ignorant himself of a deity greater still , having learned the same cabala with pythagoras , though according to the reservedness e which he saw practiced by the egyptian priests , he did not divulge the mystery to the multitude . and manifest it is , that the religion of the romans , was in less measure adulterated in the age from numa to tarquinius priscus , than after those times . for he corrupted the religion of numa with the vanity of the greeks and ethruscans : and he erected images which numa would not admit of . for numa believed ( saith dionysius halicarnassaeus ) that god could not be represented a by any figure . and tertullian b speaking of the debasement of religion under tarquinius priscus , sheweth numa to have been more chast in his rites , and to have believed in a god to whom ubiquity belonged . plutarch also reporteth it concerning that wise prince , that he forbade the people to think that god had the form of man or beast . and the notion of numa , though much stifled , was not quite destroyed by the multitude of gods and statues . there were those , in the days of cicero c , who recounting many deities held by the philosophy of anaximander , professed themselves unable to understand any other than one eternal god. this god was sometimes owned under the name of jupiter , though that name was ambiguously applicable , to him , to the sun , to many demons or heroes . we may infer the eminency of the deity , called by that name , from the attributes given to him by sober and philosophical men , when they argue about his nature . such a one was diotogenes the pythagorean d , who speaketh of god in the singular number ; saith of him , that he is a king whose city is the world ; calleth him by the name of jupiter ; and affirmeth that jupiter is the supreme of all powers , a god of excellence , goodness , power , justice ; dispensing benefits to the world , and in that sense , the father of gods and men. it is true that the fathers , and many others do esteem generally , of the grecian and roman jupiter as of an arch-devil , and a topical-god . and they deride his worship , as the adoration of a man , who was born and buried in crete ; at least born somewhere on earth , as callimachus himself confesseth e , though he denies the honour to the cretians ; and is confident that , though he was born , he never dyed . jupiter , saith arnobius a , hath father , and mother , how can he then be a god ? tertullian also had no other thoughts of jupiter than of an idol : for thus he discourseth b . i know one ( whom god forgive ) who when another , in the quarrel managed betwixt them , used this imprecation , let jupiter be angry with you , answered again ; nay , let him be avenged on you . what could have an heathen man done more , who believed jupiter to be a god ? the senate and people of rome do in a late inscription in the capitol , give notice c , that the place was once dedicated unto jove ; but that they had made it sacred to the true god , to jesus christ the author of all good things . and this opinion might well be entertained concerning jupiter , for many reasons : first , because the multitude , both in greece , and italy , did worship him in the quality of a demon. the poets of greece set him forth as a demon , though the superior of them ; and ( as we read in the first iliad of homer ) as a power not perfectly omnipotent , but subject to be bound by the rest of the gods. and the law of the twelve tables , before-cited , representeth him only as the president of the college of the sempiternal demons , or dii consentes d . nay , of jove plato himself saith e , that men esteemed him the best and most just of the gods , and one who held his father in chains for his unnatural cruelty to his children . secondly , because the worship of jupiter , in how high a notion soever he was sometimes taken , was not looked upon only by it felf , but as the principal worship in the religion of the gentiles , giving denomination to the other parts of it . for the worship of jupiter was , in effect , an acknowledgment of the whole gentilism of rome pagan : and he that had adored jupiter , would by that have been judged , to have been likewise a devout servant of juno and venus , and the rest of that society of grecian and roman idols . however , under this name , some of the wise gentiles did mean the supreme deity , distinct from their college of demons : and i suppose marcus antoninus , that philosophical prince , to have been one of them . he says , indeed , concerning the thundering legion , that they prayed to a god which himself knew not a : not that he owned not one supreme god , but that he understood him not in the subsistences of father , son , and holy ghost , in which quality the christians applyed themselves to him . thirdly , jupiter , when thought of under the notion of one highest god , whatsoever he was in speculation , he was actually but an evil demon. for the persons and things which he countenanced could never be approved of by the true and righteous god. let it then be granted ( for why should men oppose the evidence of plain words ? ) that some gentiles entertained a notion of that god who is one and supreme . part . what applications they made to one god. this being confessed , there is a second inquiry to be made , whether such gentiles worshipped him , or made religious application to him ? and it is evident they did so , both by prayers , sacrifices , and images . prayer to him was consequent to their apprehensions of him as the allsufficient and bountiful governour of mankind . and sometimes they prayed to him in the very form of [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] lord have mercy , which the ancient christians used . ennius , in cicero , b declareth that jove was invoked by all. he calleth him [ sublime candens ] not meaning the sun , but the power that causeth lightning , and the jove who , in euripides ( there also cited by tully ) , is owned as [ summus divns ] the supreme god. simplicius , in the conclusion of his notes on epictetus c , useth this excellent form : i address my self humbly to thee , o lord , thou father and guide of our reason , that we may be mindful of that nobility with which thou hast adorn'd us : — that we may be purged from the contagion of the body , and bruitish affections ; governing them as becometh us , and using them as instruments . — if simplicius be said to learn this under christianity , that cannot be objected against socrates and plato . socrates prayeth d , not only to the gods , but to the supreme god , under the title of pan , in the first place . and he prayeth that he may be beautiful within ; and that he may esteem the wise-man only to be the man truly wealthy : referring to the things before discoursed of in the phaedrus of plato . the same plato begins his second dialogue called alcibiades ( e ) by this question ( put to that philosopher , by socrates , who apprehended him to be in a deep contemplation ) ; whether he were going about to call on god ? and thence occasion is taken of saying many wise things , on that subject , in the sequel of that dialogue . and about the middle of that discourse , he repeateth a very prudent form of prayer used by a poet f , who beseecheth his god to give him the things which were good for him , though he should happen not to pray for them ; and to keep from him such things as were hurtful , though through error he should make supplication for them . again , in timaeus , plato observeth g that those who have any share of understanding , when they undertake any thing , be it of smaller or of greater concernment , do always invoke god. to such invocation he exhorteth a at the constitution of any city or civil body . and he urgeth prayer in so many places , that i have not room for the repetition of them , in that compass to which i have design'd to confine my discourse . for sacrifice , that also the gentiles offered to god. plato joyneth both together in the conclusion of his theages . there b theages exhorteth to an appeasing of the numen worshipped by socrates , by prayer and sacrifice ; and demodocus and socrates are consenting to it . and porphyry supposeth some gentiles to have offered sacrifice to the supreme god , whilst he taxeth them for offering to him animals , as unmeet oblations , or indeed , any thing besides a pure mind . martinius in the fourth book of his history of china c , thinketh that people to have worshipped the true supreme god under the name of xangti : and he further observeth , that they offered prayers and sacrifices to him , though they used no images in his worship . for images , the gentiles used them in the worship of the one god , and not only whilst they religiously observed their demons . origen supposeth statues of both kinds in use amongst them , where he saith d , that those heathens expose themselves to the derision of all men of sound mind , who , after their philosophical disputations [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] of god or gods , respect statues , and either pray to them , or endeavour , by the contemplation of them , as by conspicuous signs , to raise their minds [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] to the intelligible deity . in the mean time ( as he continueth his discourse ) the meanest christian is effectually perswaded that all the world is the temple of god : and he prayeth to him , in all places , with closed eyes , but with the lights of his mind erected towards heaven . this had been no refutation of celsus , if the gentiles had not worshipped the god that is every where , without images , by prayer and a pure intention . origen , in the same book a , in answer to celsus , who had denied images to be worshipped as gods , and affirmed them to be divine statues only ; replyeth in this manner . we cannot think these images to be so much as divine statues ; seeing we circumscribe not the incorporeal and invisible god , with any figure . he supposeth the heathen had done so ; else he had in vain contended against their statues by such an argument , fetched from the spirituality and ubiquity , not of demons , but of the true and sovereign god. to him it appeareth , that some gentiles did apply themselves in the three ways abovementioned , of prayer , sacrifice , and image-worship . part . whether they worshipping one god , could be guilty of that sin . now that being proved , a third question comes to be resolved ; whether the acknowledgment of one god by the gentiles , and their application to him , being granted , they are yet liable to the charge of idolatry ? in answer to this enquiry , i purpose to shew , that they are still charged ; that they might be guilty notwithstanding that concession of owning one god ; and that in divers respects , that guilt was actually contracted by them . they are charged with this high offence , by tertullian , clemens alexandrinus , minucius faelix , origen against celsus , s. cyprian de vanitate idolorum , arnobius , lactantius , julius firmicus maternus , and a long order of others : and to cite them in all the places which are pertinent to this matter , were to repeat a great part of their works . the matter is so notorious , that i will illustrate it only by a single instance . let that instance be made in julian the apostate [ if he were ever a christian , in whom the tares of gentilism were sown so very early by libanius ; and appeared ripe so soon as ever the glory of the empire shone upon him ] : this man hath been condemned by the common consent of the christian church in being since his time , as a manifest and infamous idolater , and a very bigot in heathenism ; and yet he acknowledged one god , and him who is truly the lord of lords . he declared this to be the opinion of his sect a , that there was a common parent and king of men. he worshipped that jupiter b who is the giver of all kinds of good ; who is c the greatest and most powerful being . he worshipped ( though not without the intermixture of a false religion ) the god of abraham , isaac , and jacob. he says so much in terms , in one place d and upon his oath . he says the same elsewhere e in effect , whilst he reports the pains he took ( though perfectly in vain ) to raise the temple of jerusalem out of its ruines ; and thereby , as he pretended , to erect a monument to him , to whom it was sacred . it is true , that s. cyril doth bring his sincerity under question f , and believes that , in his heart , he placed the god of abraham amongst his topical deities : yet , for jupiter ithometes g worshipped by julian , s. cyril granteth him to be esteemed the prince of the gods. and why he should think that julian believed not the god of abraham to be the true jehovah , i cannot readily conjecture ; seeing that emperor had perufed the old testament , which declares him to be the creator and governour of all things , and not meerly , as the nations transplanted into samaria , grosly imagined , the god of the land a . if now julian and some other heathens entertained so worthy a notion of god , they are , so far , acquitted of that sort of idolatry which establisheth the polytheism of some or many eoequal gods ; but still they might be , in other regards , the worshippers of idols . that they might be so , appeareth from the definition of idolatry , in which it is shewed that the giving away the honour of god to another object is a degree of that crime , though it be not his supreme honour : though we do not take the crown of incommunicable honour from him , and , by our fancy , place it on a creature . it appeareth again from the practice of the jews , who are by god himself accused of idolatry , even when they in part owned and worshipped him , and before they were wholly led into captivity , and mingled again among the heathen . they had not forgotten , perfectly , the god of israel in whose law they read ; though like adulteresses , they shared their love with idols . wherefore god almighty required hosea , not ( as i think ) in a literal sense , but according to the way of a prophetical scene , to take unto him an adulteress b ; thereby personating the state betwixt himself and the children of israel , who , though they had not rejected him as their true and supreme husband , yet they had gone a whoring after the inventions of the gentiles , and provoked god to give them a bill of divorce . whilst i am here affirming , that a people who own one god , may yet commit idolatry , i mean not this meerly of such who judge him to be , nature , the sun , or the soul of the world , all which are finite or imaginary objects , and by consequence , idols , as often as they are adored in the place of god : but i speak even of the gentiles who own'd one true incomprehensible creator ; who with callicratidas the pythagorean a , acknowledged [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] one best being , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] and such as was the beginning and cause of all things . some of these did actually commit idolatry , in their worship of the statues of god , of demons , and of the images of those subordinate deities . part . of their idolatry in worshipping the statues of god. first , their idolatry consisted in the worship of the statues of god. this , indeed , was not the highest degree of that false religion , for they did not , hereby , dethrone god , and give to the creature his most essential perfections ; but yet they gave away such honour as he had not bestowed who was the proprietor of it . they did so , in the worship , both of the natural , and of the artificial statues of god. the principal natural statue was the sun. for some of the philosophical gentiles made not the sun it self the ultimate object of their worship , but they adored god in it . hence they gave to vulcan [ that is , the sun ] the name , sometimes of god , and sometimes of fire , as plutarch ( c ) instructeth us out of archilochus . and maximus tyrius , being one of more refined reason than the generality of the heathens , would not confess that the sun and the fire were any further deified , than as they were c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the statues or images of god. the same excellent philosopher upbraideth the persians for neglecting the statues of the fruitful earth , and the glorious sun , and the great path of commerce , the sea ; and chusing the devouring fire as their statue and their god. in which words , he supposeth the presence of a deity in the fire , and the fire to be only the statue or image of it , according to the persian theology . now , in two things , consisted the idolatry of the heathens , whilst they worshipped the natural statues of god. first , they were idolatrous in setting up those natural statues , as the places of gods peculiar residence . and this the fathers objected to the heathens ; shewing them , that christianity represented god , as one that filled the world , and not as one that dwelt ( like a star ) in some coelestial sphear ; and taught them in their prayers to him , to exalt their thoughts above all material heavens : or ( as origen a is pleased to express it ) above even supercoelestial places . and for this they had reason : for the gentiles , by worshipping creatures as gods statues , gave gods relative honour to them , whilst he owned them only as his workmanship , and not as his especial images or temples . thereby , likewise , they bred in their minds a dishonourable idea of god , as of one who , like a finite being , dwelt in certain places . this was not the notion of him amongst all , but the worship of him by natural statues made all of them prone to it . plato himself was under the temptation . he was not come to any determinate belief concerning the stars , whether they were gods , or only the statues of them . but , upon supposition that they were statues ( the part to which he is most inclined ) he would have them honoured beyond all statues on earth , as being made such by a divine power b . secondly , the gentiles were guilty of idolatrous worship , in making some , at least , of the natural statues of god , voluntary and authoritative disposers of good and evil , under god , in the world ; though not as the supreme dispensers of them . they believed the stars to be animated [ at least with an assistant form ] and as maimonides reporteth of them a , created by god for the government of the world. and we receive it upon the valuable authority of garcilasso de la vega b that the ynca's of peru adored the sun as the visible deity , by which the greater god , who was invisible , ruled this world. a due confideration of this fancy amongst the gentiles , leadeth us to the true original of astrology , and to a right account of talismanick statues . the present astrology pretendeth to be natural and philosophical , and to solve the effects it foretelleth ( if any it doth , besides those of light and shadow , as in eclipses ) by the mechanical influence of the stars , which variously combine their light and heat . but the egyptian , chaldean , and grecian astrology was , in truth , an astrological magick , built upon the hypothesis of their demons , and the heavens which they governed . and they did not think that the stars wrought a mighty effect , or impregnated a talisman , by their proper virtue , but as they were either intelligences themselves , or divinely influenced and directed by the demons which resided in them , and governed part of this lower world. the chaldeans c assigned twelve gods as governours of the year , and apportioned to each of them one sign in the zodiack . to these they added thirty auxiliary gods in thirty stars , of which fifteen were to have inspection on things below the earth ; and fifteen above it . and in the kalendar of julius caesar d , each god had a month under him , and in it , the several constellations . juno governed january , neptune february , minerva march , venus april , apollo may , mercury june , jupiter quintilis or july , ceres sextilis or august , vulcan september , mars october , diana november , vesta december . at this day the astrological judgments refer to demonology . thus saturn the severe demon , is made to signifie malicious persons ; mars the bloody demon , furious , proud , valiant persons ; and by their influence to dispose to such qualities . the horoscope or ascendant is made the principal of all angles , or if not that , then the culmen coeli by ptolomy ; and this judgment at first came from the worship of the sun the principal demon , and most reverenced in those angles . in this worship then , although subordinate , the gentiles placed gods authority where god himself had not done it ; and their hopes , and fears , and thanks , respected certain creatures , when they were due to god , dispensing good and evil immediately by himself ; or if by them , doing it by them as ministerial causes , not as sharers in his government . but of this , more , when i come to consider their worship of demons ; of which , the stars themselves were one sort to some of them , whilst they ascribed to them a high degree of perception and voluntary power . they thought of the sun as of an archangel ; though the disciples of the philolaick systeme called it only the organ of god a , and the divine harp , by reason of the harmony which its motion gave to the rest of the coelestial bodies . again , they erred in their worship , about the artificial and instituted statues of god. some of these statues were , possibly , at first , no more than monumental pillars , and records of some extraordinary work of god , discerned to be the effect of his finger , by proof of sufficient reason : and so far the gentiles were commendable , as well as jacob of the line of abraham . for it is the nature of true and grateful devotion , to retain , and propagate the memory of gods acts , which by the eminent wisdom , mercy , power and justice of them , are proper for the exciting of admiration . but i cannot go on in praising them , for the honour they gave to other kinds of statues , which their fancy erected to the supreme god. of these , some had less art bestowed on them , being great pieces of wood or stone , without any imagery of man or beast , of fish or fowl , carved or painted on them . some regular figure they sometimes had , as that of an egg which they supposed in many things , and particularly in its figure , to resemble the world a . such statues they worshipped two ways , first , as the symbols of gods especial presence : secondly , as pledges of his favour to them , wheresoever he was , so long as they held them in possession ; and both ways they egregiously offended . they offended by worshipping such statues as the symbols of gods especial presence . for thereby they ascribed the relative honour , due to gods true shechinah , to an object which was exalted to that divine condition , not by his approbation , but by their fancy . and if their fancy was moved to this false estimation , by some amazing effects wrought before them , upon the performance of their religious rites , they were idolatrous in that case , by honouring the power of demons asgods omnipotence . for god permitted evil spirits to seduce those pagans , by strange and uncommon operations , wrought at their statues , who refused to live in the use of their reason . further , they transgressed in using statues as the pledges to assure them of gods favour , so long as they remained with them . such were the ancilia , and the palladium introduced by numa , amongst the romans . he did not celebrate them as statues in which god dwelt , but as secret pledges of empire a . and this conceit , also , begat idolatry amongst them ; for they gave that honourable trust due to god and his shechinah , and the pledges of his favour , to things devised by politick men , and such as god neither formed , nor sent , nor appointed as instruments of defence amongst any people . other statues they used as images and representations of the supreme god. this practice macrobius doth not deny , but he denieth it to be antient b . and it is plain , by his context , that he referreth to plato , and to the platonick notions which exalted god above all the parts of nature . and for plato , it was agreeable to his principles , to abstain from all representations of god , whom he believed to be incomprehensible . viretus saith of him , c that seeking after some matter fit for the image of god , he could find none proper for that divine purpose . but he here committeth a double mistake : for in the place which he meaneth , plato speaketh not of any matter for the image of god , but for the statues of the gods ; and at last he pitcheth upon certain materials for that use . the philosopher d thought gold and silver unfit , because they were invidious things ; and brass and iron , because they were instruments of war ; and ivory , because it was the tooth of an elephant , dead already , or obnoxious to death . but at last he concludeth ( from what reason i know not ) , that an entire tree or stone might make a mercury , or an image of a demon. [ for the europeans were not so costly and pompous in their images e till the conquest of asia , the fountain of luxuries . ] but though platonists contented themselves with inward ideas , yet all the gentile world did not ; but divers of them made and worshipped external representations of god the creator . so did the egyptians who represented their supreme cneph , though diversly ; as appears from the description of him in porphyry a , and his image in cartari b . so did the greeks ; porphyry himself confessing that they worshipped god in the image of a man , but making an excuse which statuaries and worshippers seldom thought of . by god he means the supreme deity , and not some one only of the divine powers ; for he mentions [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c as well as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] god himself , and not only divine virtues , in offering his reason for their worship by images . he , there , alloweth the deity to be invisible , and he yet thinks him well represented in the form of a man ; not because he is like him in external shape , but [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ] because that which is divine is rational . that was not the common cause , but an inclination to a sensible object , and an apprehension of humane figure as that which was most excellent , and which belongeth to a king and governour ; under which notion , in the grosser idea of it , their reverence of earthly potentates had pictured god in their heads . when origen objected to celsus d the vanity of worshipping the invisible god in the visible form of man , celsus neither denieth the matter of fact , nor apologizeth after the manner of porphyry , but retorteth the objection on the christians , who professed that man was made after the image of god. and origen observeth , that celsus did not understand how to distinguish , here , betwixt being the image of god , and being made after it : and , that , he ignorantly cited the christians , as saying , “ that god made man his image , and an appearance like himself e . and , at this day , pagans , when they entertain a phantasm of god , they are , most commonly , anthropomorphites . a very late and principal actor , in the ruine of the town of sacoe in new-england , was an enthusiastick indian called squango a , who , some years before , pretended that god appeared to him in the form of a tall man in black clothes . now the gentiles worshipping such ideas or external images , as forms of god , do misplace his honour , by paying their relative veneration to objects which were not like him , but infinitely unworthy of him . they turned the glory of gods essence into vile and despicable similitudes . a worse sort of idolatry still ( if worse can be ) were those gentiles guilty of , who , by images ( such as those of baal and pan ) adored nature , or the sun , as the supreme god. the very prototypes , here , were idols . so that , in this kind of worship , both the ultimate and intermediate , the direct and the relative honour of god , was devolved on the creature . part . of the idolatry of the gentiles in their worship of demons . a second branch of the idolatry of the gentiles , even of their philosophers , and men of deep disputation , was the worship of demons . in this worship they were idolatrous four ways . first , by worshipping demons as powers which , under god , had a considerable share of the government of the world , by commission from him . secondly , by worshipping demons which were devils , or wicked and accursed spirits . thirdly , by worshipping the images of such demons . fourthly , by their immoderate officiousness towards these inferior deities , which left them little leisure for attendance on the supreme god. first , the gentiles committed idolatry by worshipping demons , as powers which , with subordination to god , did , by his allowance , manage a great part of the government of the world. they did not deny the supremacy of god , but they imagined that he ruled not the world by his immediate providence , but by several orders of demons and heroes , as his substitutes and lieutenants . such as these were the twelve angels or presidents , which the egyptians believed a to govern , by ternaries , the four quarters of the world. in the flaminian obelisk b the supreme momphta , or supramundane osiris , is represented , as ruling the twelve parts of the world , by tw●…lve solar demons in the form of twelve hawks [ that is , of eagles , for of that kind were the sacred accipitres of that country ] . there , as likewise in greece and italy , several inferiour deities were appointed over several places , persons and things . he that is not otherwise furnished , may read in kircher , of the genius of fire c , air d , water e , the earth f , agriculture g , of the clouds h , the sun and moon i , of heat and moisture k ; and of fourty eight asterisms as the stations of fourty eight deities l . pythagoras and plato themselves , m were , in this point , authors of egregious idolatry . pythagoras , invented , or rather learned , from egyptians , chaldeans , thracians , persians , his two demons or principles ; the one good , the parent of unity , rest , equality , splendor ; the other evil , the cause of division , motion , inequality , darkness ; for such were the terms which his school used in representing their nature . and these became objects of much hope and fear , which ought to have been moved , not by mens devices , but by considerations taken from the almighty power , justice and goodness of god who is one . plato seemeth to have ascribed much both of the frame and of the government of the world to the genii next to god : by principles whom he esteemed highly divine , but not by such as he judged three subsistences of the same supreme numerical substance . if that had been his creed ( as some would have it , who can find in him the mysteries of the athanasian articles ) , the earliest hereticks , who denied the coequal divinity of the son of god , and therefore believed in another kind of logos , had never come in such numbers out of his school ; the place from whence the fathers fetch them . a with them agreeth petavius that learned jesuit , and in this argument as learned as in any other . he saith it is most evident concerning arius b , that he was a very genuine platonist . plato's principal idea or logos , was distinct in number and nature from his supreme cause , or god. and those who follow the faith of the nicene fathers , reason not with consistence , whilst they suppose this idea to be the second person , and yet find in plato , such distinctness of being , and ( which to me seems very remarkable ) a plain denial of his generation . it is true , that plato , cited by porphyry c , does call the second principle , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the word which is the workman ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the first power after the supreme god ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the genuine or only son of god ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the intellectual word . and yet he says of the same power , which he calls , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an eternal and imperceptible mind , that it is d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unbegotten , and parent to it self : he likewise calls it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a mind subsisting by it self . and st. cyril , who citeth plato out of porphyry , and is willing to make the platonick triad the same in effect with the christian trinity a , confesseth the third principle , which should answer to the holy ghost , to be no other than the soul of the world , which all platonists understand to be a distinct substance from the first cause . nay , porphyry himself , in the place which st. cyril would serve his purpose on , calleth plato's three principles , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , b ] not three hypostases but three gods. c of his other idea's i have little to say , i mean of those properly so called before the formation of the world. parmenides is a book , either so muddy , or so profoundly deep , that i cannot see to the bottom of it . therein he discourseth of these matters with infinite subtlety , or rather perplexity of notion . one would imagin a man of his wit not so absurd as to think them eternal substances , and models quite separated from the mind of god , but rather divine thoughts concerning the fashion of the world which he decreed to make . yet ammonius the scholar of proclus ascribeth to him that opinion , and followeth him in it : though herein aristotle deserted his master , and not without reason . and he sure , knew his meaning , and had a key to his mysteries . other idea's there were which plato owned , and they were such as are more intelligible , and more proper for me to speak of in this argument ; they being angels or daemons . the uncertain greek author d of the life of pythagoras , joined to that of porphyry , discoursing of the world as consisting of twelve distinct orbs , placeth in the first sphere , god almighty . after him he rangeth the inferior deities , which from plato he calleth idea's , and from aristotle , intellectual gods. he means the intelligences of that philosopher , though he made them to be but seven according to the number of the planets which he set them to move . of plato tertullian saith , a that he held certain invisible , incorporeal , supermundial , divine , eternal , substances to which he gave the name of idea's , as the causes of visible things . for his archetypal idea , it is manifest to the reader of his works , and particularly of his timaeus , that he supposed him to be a being as subsistent by it self as matter , and distinct from the supreme divinity . he speaks of it as a thing , being , or person , not as a meer pattern of things ; and his [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] or platform , is held by him to be but the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] or image of his principal idea b . the next power to his [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] or god the pure and unmixed good , was [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] or intellect , or [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] existence compounded of intellect and unity , and distinct in substance from the first cause according to plato ; though [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] was the first according to anaxagoras ( called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 himself for this his dogma ) whom plato outshot by one principle . the third platonick power was distinct from both the former , and it was [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] the soul of the world. nous , psyche , logos , and the like mystical terms , were but the names of certain eminent demons placed by his fancy at the right hand of god , and used in the works of creation and providence as authorative agents , and not as meer instruments of the first cause . they were therefore set up and reverenced with prejudice to the honour of the true god , who is the only creator and preserver of all things . by creation the platonists meant only the disposal of the chaos into order : for their philosophy supposed matter c to have been as coeternal with god , as light is coeval with the sun. by plato god is called [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] the maker and father of all that is d . but he means not this of him as of the immediate cause , but as the cause of the higher principles , causes , or powers , which , with subordination to him , produced in order such as are inferior to themselves . sallust the platonist openly confesseth it , and out of him i will transcribe the sense of part of a chapter , concerning the modelling and governing of the visible world , by the power of demons . he had in his first chapter concerning the gods and the world , discoursed about god , or the first cause of all things . a while after in his sixth chapter , a [ which according to its title , treateth of the cosmical and encosmical , or of the celestial and worldly gods ; ] he thus pursueth his divine subject . of the gods , some are worldly , and others heavenly . i call those worldly who make the world. for the heavenly , some of them make the substances of the gods , [ or inferior demons ] , some , the mind ; some , the souls b . wherefore , of these there are three orders , and they may easily be found in the discourses which are made of them . for the worldly gods , some make the world [ or visible frame of things ] ; some animate it ; some adjust the parts of it ; and some govern or preserve it so composed . here then being four things , and each of them consisting of first , middle and extreme ; it is necessary that they who dispose them , be twelve in number . they therefore that make th●… world are jupiter , neptune , and vulcan . they who animate it , are juno , ceres , diana . they who adjust the parts of it , are apollo , venus , and mercury . they who preserve it , are vesta , pallas , and mars . — these first possessing the world before others , [ that is , the pagan heroes ; ] we may imagin the others in them : to wit , bacchus in jupiter ; aesculapius in apollo ; the graces in venus . we may also contemplate their [ several ] spheres : the earth , the orb of vesta ; the water , that of neptune ; the air , that of juno ; the fire , that of vulcan . plato himself , as he is cited by st. cyril , a supposeth god to have quitted , as it were , the care of things on earth , and to have committed it to the inferior gods for their diversion b . it is true , that in four places plato asserteth a divine providence , taking care of the things on earth , even of the least things ; and doing it with ease , and being no way prevented by sloth . he doth this in his tenth book of laws c ; in his politicus d ; in his epinomis e ; and in his phaedo f : but where he asserteth this , he speaketh it as much of the gods , as of god. and in his phaedo , after cebes had affirmed in the singular of god , that he consulted better for man , than man could for himself , and was an excellent lord ; simmias and socrates in some sort consenting to him , turn his sentence into the plural of lords and gods g . julian likewise , though he professed the belief of one true god , yet he assigned several countries and cities to the care of several tutelar gods h . so we find in porphyry i certain [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] god 's that were conceived to be presidents of regions ; such amongst whom the government of the lower world was parted . the gentiles indeed did not wholly exclude the supreme god , but they worshipped him as one who had not reserved unto himself the greatest share of the government . hence is it that we find among their ancient inscriptions , many such as that remembred by elmenhorstius k ; to jupiter the best and greatest [ deity ] , and to the genius [ or demon ] of the place . they thought of the supreme jove , but they seldom thought of him without his deputy . such philosophy concerning the lieutenancy of demons is at this day on foot in china . there the litterati , or those of the sect of confusio , own one god l ; and though they do not reverence him with any solemn worship , ( as if he were a kind of unconcerned , epicurean deity ) , yet they have temples for tutelar spirits . the sect of the tausi also acknowledg one great god , and other lesser ones , that is , vicegerent demons . the same sort of philosophy is found amongst the benjans , in the eastern india . the sect of them called samarath , though it believeth one first cause a , which created the world , yet it assigneth to him three subftitutes , brama , buffiuna , and mais . brama ( they fay ) hath the disposal of souls , which he sends into such bodies as permiseer [ or the supreme god , ] appointeth for them ; whether they be the bodies of men or beasts . buffiuna teacheth the world the laws of its god : he hath also the oversight of provisions for common life , and advanceth the growth of wheat , herbs and pulse , after brama hath indu'd each of them with souls . mais exerciseth its power over the dead . this looks to me like a tale of jupiter , ceres and pluto . this opinion of the gentiles , which ascribeth so much of the government of this world to demons , as gods commissioners in certain precincts , and as superintendents over places , persons , and things , is manifestly contrary to the tenor of the scriptures . they teach , b that god is the great disposer of good and evil in all cities and places ; and that his providence extendeth to the fall of a little sparrow , and of a lesser thing than that , an hair of our head . that sheweth us how he used great importunity for the turning of jew and gentile from the confidence which they placed in their genii . this , saith st. cyril c , he would never have attempted , if they had been presidents of his own appointment . his angels minister before him , but they do not properly govern under him , much less is that true of superexisting souls . the angels of graecia and persia were such spirits , as did at that time serve his will in that particular employment . but we have no cogent reason ( i think ) to perswade us , that they always enjoyed a setled lieutenancy over those countries . it was a rash conclusion which vatablus drew from those visions of daniel a , to wit , that to every nation was assigned an angel as president over it . the whole of that discourse in daniel is a vision , and a representation of heavenly things in a scene upon earth . and they who make particular application of every circumstance , without due attention to the main design of it , forget that they confound earthly and heavenly things , and lay their gross absurdities of fancy at the door of the spirit of god. such ( for instance sake ) would they be who should think from this vision , that an angel toucheth gods prophets with an hand at what time he inspireth them , because daniel b so expresseth himself as if it were so done to him ; or who should believe that a good angel ordained by god to comfort his prophet , could be detained by an evil one for one and twenty days c , until he prevailed against him by the assistance of michael ; because the scripture useth such an ●…umane image , and alludeth to the impediments of good men on earth , who are not equal in power and motion to the ministring angels , who are quick and vigorous as spirits or winds , and flames of fire . on such quickness and vigor god serveth his purposes by the temporary ministry of angels ; but by himself still , and not by them as setled delegates , he dispenseth favours and severities . accordingly god inviting the jews to renounce their genii , or inferior deities and patrons , [ and not meerly to turn from evil angels , and to apply themselves to good ones ; ] promiseth by himself to send them that worldly plenty which they had sacrilegiously ascribed to their idols . and st. paul endeavouring to draw the lycaonians from their vanities , remindeth them a of the testimony which god had given them , of his providence in sending them fruitful seasons . this if it had been done by commissioned demons , the gentiles might have abated the force of the apostles argument , which proveth the care of the supreme god by the supplies of outward blessings . the same st. paul hath left us another text , most worthy of our attention , in which he confirmeth the government and the providence of the supreme god ; rejecteth the lieutenancy of demons , and owneth christ alone as the substitute of the father . though there be , said he b , such as are called gods ; though there be many [ superior , and many inferior baalim ] gods or lords ; yet to us [ christians ] there is but one god , and one lord jesus christ. he is the true god , and eternal life : he is gods vicegerent , who is the everlasting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the father ; and not the platonick demon called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or that of the valentinians c , which together with their logos made the second conjugation of their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the first whence they came , being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , mind and truth d . if then god by his providence dispenseth immediately good and evil ; if his care reacheth to things below the moon ( whose orb some made the limits of it , with equal vanity and boldness ; whilst others , with maimonides e allowed a providence over man , but not over beasts : ) if he useth his angels as ministring , not governing spirits ; as messengers of several kinds , and not as commission-officers of his court , and administrators of the affairs of his kingdom ; as the attendants ordinary or extraordinary of his substitute jesus christ , but not as fellow-viceroys : if he thus far only useth his angels , and it may be useth not departed souls so far as this amounts to ; it is plain idolatry to worship demons , as did the gentiles , in that quality of divine lieutenants . for from them they expect good and evil ; them they fear , them they thank . when god sendeth fruitful seasons , and by them plenty , they send up their acknowledgments to the queen of heaven . when god healeth them , they sacrifice to aesculapius , as to him that removed their distemper from them . this is a very great iniquity , and the common grounds or occasions of it are highly unworthy of the true god. for most of them who believe not his immediate providence , do measure his actions by those of worldly potentates . they conceive him out of state , to do little by his own person ; or out of ease and softness , to commit the management of his affairs to others , both by temporary command , and by standing commission . as if the greatest variety of business could distract or weary him , who is infinite in knowledg , and greatness , and power . thus st. cyril a judged of them who substituted lesser deities under him that was supreme . he thought that they impeached god of arrogance or floth , or want of goodness , which envieth none the good it can do . and isaiah tacitly upbraideth those who distrusted his providence , of the like vile opinion concerning him , whilst he saith of the creator b , that he fainteth not , neither is weary . secondly , the gentiles were idolaters through the worship they gave to such demons as were evil spirits . it is true , that plato owned no inferior deities but such as were [ by him esteemed ] good . he maintaineth this in his tenth book of laws , and st. austin confesseth it to be his judgment c . he saith in his phaedo d , that none were to be registred among the gods but such who had studied philosophy and departed pure out of this life . when he speaketh of demons who afflict men , he is to be interpreted rather of good spirits executing justice , than of evil angels venting their malice . but , whatsoever his opinion was , it is most evident that the generality of the heathens worshipped such demons as were morally malignant . and such porphyry a esteemed those genii who had bloody sacrifices offered to them . the gentiles sacrificed to devils , to the powers of the kingdom of darkness , which were not only not god , but enemies and professed rebels against him b . they were in porphyry's account , terrestrial demons ; such who had gross vehicles , and consequently were of the meaner and viler sort of their genii , and ( as they love to speak ) sunk deepest into matter . psellus and porphyry represent them as united to a body of so gross contexture , c that they could smell the odors of the sacrifices , and be fat with the steam of human blood . lucian in his book de sacrificiis , abounds with pleasant [ or rather to them who pity the decays of human nature , with very sad ] stories of the revels of demons . whether they were terrestrial ones or not , i here forbear to dispute : but i conclude concerning them , that they were evil . their nature shews it self by the services which they accepted , by the persons whom they have favoured , and by the appearances and wonders with which they sometimes encouraged them . the rites with which they were worshipped were bloody , rude , unclean ; such as an honest man would be ashamed to observe d . porphyry , though a gentile , hath recorded many of the bloody sacrifices e offered by the rhodians , phoenicians , and graecians ; and he telleth of a man in his time sacrificed in rome , at the feast of jupiter latialis . the like barbarity was commonly used in the worship of moloch , and bellona . and he must have such a measure of assurance as will suffer him no more to blush than his ink , who writes down all the obscenities used in her worship , whom they usually called the mother of the gods. origen telleth celsus concerning the christians a , that they had learned to judg of all the gods of the heathen as of devils , by their greediness of the blood of their sacrifices , and by their presence amidst the nidors of them , by which they deceived those who made not god their refuge . and in another place , b he proveth this truth out of their own histories : and he instanceth particularly in their deity hercules ; and he objecteth against him his immoral love , and that vile effeminacy which their own authors record . i will not tell over again their foolish stories so very often told already ; but offer to the reader a relation of fresher date , out of idolatrous america . in mexico ( saith an author c who had sojourned in that city ) , the heathens had dark houses , full of idols , great and small , and wrought of sundry metals : these were all bathed and washed with blood , — the blood of men ; — the walls of the houses were an inch thick with blood , and the floor a foot . — the priests went daily into those oratories , and suffered none other but great personages to enter with them . and when any of such condition went in , they were bound to offer some man as a sacrifice , that the priests might wash their hands , and sprinkle the house with the blood of the victim . with such sacrifices no good angel could be pleased : wherefore the worship of such being an honour done not to god , or his ministers , but to the devil and his angels , who live in perfect defiance of true religion , is an idolatry so detestable , that i have not at hand a name of sufficient infamy to bestow upon it . part . of their idolatry in worshipping the images of demons . thirdly , the gentiles were idolaters in worshipping the statues or images of demons or heroe's , either as those powers were reputed the deputies of god ; or as they were really evil spirits . the religious honour given to the prototype was idolatrous , and therefore the honour done to the image respecting the prototype , was such also . so he that bows towards the chair of an usurper , does give away the honour of the true soveraign ; because the external sign of his submission is ultimately referred to the usurper himself . the honour which the gentiles did to their statues , redounded generally to their demons ; for their theology did not set up such images ( whatsoever vulgar fancy or practice did ) as final objects of worship , or gods in themselves . it set them up as places of divine residence , wherein the genii were thought to dwell , or to afford their especial presence in oracles , and other supernatural aids ; as the true god was said to dwell amidst the cherubims . the egyptians ( as ruffinus a storieth ) entertained this superstitious perswasion , amongst a multitude of others , that if any man had laid violent hands on the statue of serapis , the heavens and the earth would have been mixed together in a new chaos . olympius the sophist b exhorteth the gentiles still to adhere to the religion of their gods , notwithstanding the christians defaced their statues . and he gave them this as the reason of his counsel , because ( said he ) though the images be corruptible things , yet in them did dwell c virtues [ or demons ] which from the ruins of their statues , took their flight to heaven . this opinion arnobius a and lactantius b acknowledg to have been common among the gentiles : and we may still read it in the writings of the wiser ( shall i say , or the subtler and less excusable ) sort of them . of that number were celsus and julian . celsus demandeth c , whether any man , besides a sottish ideot who has not a grain of salt in his mind , can believe stone , wood , brass , or gold , formed by an artificer , to be a god , and not rather a statue sacred to the gods ? the excuse of julian is not unlike to that of celsus . we worship images ( said that d apostate emperour ) , not that we think them to be very gods themselves , but that by them [ as symbols ] we may worship the gods. this petavius the jesuit in his note on the margent , calleth a frigid evasion . i grant it is so ; but is not the like apology used in justification of image-worship , by that society of which petavius was a a brother ? so goes the world , even the learned world : the same reason is by factious partiality called a piller in one mans cause , and a straw in anothers . but let us return to our argument from this short digression . in pursuit of it , it ought to be taken notice of , that the writers of the old testament seem to speak very differently from celsus and julian , in this matter of the worship of images and statues . they seem to upbraid the gentiles as the worshippers of the very statues themselves , without further reference unto god or demons . there stood in zion , then a fort of the jebusites , certain brazen images , as talismanical protectors of it e ; in them the people trusted , believing that david f could not take that fort till he had removed those divine guards . with these david reproached the people , calling them the blind and the lame , which his soul abhorred ; that is , such idols as had eyes and saw not ; feet , and walked not . other prophets argue with idolaters from their own experience ; and appeal to them , whether their idols could hear , or see , or help them ? and whether they were not the works of mens hands which they adored a ? they mock them as such who prayed for a prosperous journey , to an idol that could not move ; and who worshipped one part of a dead tree , which by the other part of it , served for fuel ; for fuel , not for their altars but for the ordinary fires of their kitchin . they do not deride them as vain men who trusted in a creature which had no power or virtue in it but what it derived from god , as a late french author seems to suggest b ; but as such who depended on an idol ; on a thing which neither in it self , nor from any foreign cause , supreme or subordinate , contained or dispensed the virtue they ascribed to it . one would be apt to conclude from such scoffs of the prophets , that the gentiles made their very images their ultimate gods. they did so by interpretation , but not by direct intention of mind , unless they were the very scum of the scum of the world . those who had any measure of understanding discoursed after the manner of clinia in plato's eleventh book of laws c . of the gods ( said clinia ) some are seen ; to others , which we see not , we erect images and statues . and though these statues be in themselves without life ; yet we esteem them animated deities , and believe whilst we worship them , that they are very favourable to us . the barbarous americans made the same distinction with the philosophical clinia . they were upbraided by frier gage d for worshipping an idol of black wood which they had placed in a cave of the earth . but instead of putting them to silence , he received this answer from them . they told him that themselves believed the image to be but wood of it self ; but that they knew also by their own ears , that it had spoken to them : they thence concluded that a god was in it , and that on such a miraculous voice , they rightly founded their devotion . this excuse then was common , but so was not such extraordinary operation as the americans spake of . if it had been vulgarly notorious among the egyptians , chaldeans , and assyrians , the prophets would scarce have appealed to them , whilst they discoursed of the nullity and vanity of their images ; for then the people might have refuted their argument by professing their experience of signs and wonders . but nothing was done supernaturally by many of their statues . their priests and statesmen deluded them frequently with their tales and arts ; and they sacrificed many of the provisions for their bels , to their own stomack . haly speaketh a of images in egypt known to himself , which could move very strangely , as did the dove of archytas . ruffinus mentioneth an iron-image of serapis at alexandria ; and pliny one of the same metal in the temple of arsinoe , sustained by magnets b ; to the intent that the people might behold them with admiration , as supported in the air by nothing but miracles . dionysius halicarnassensis c telleth of the mother of marcius coriolanus , and of other women sent in embassy to him by the senate , when he had made defect to the volsci ; that prevailing with him to restrain his forces , the senate out of the publick treasury built to fortune a temple and an image , and the women erected a second image at their private charge . of this second image he reporteth out of the pontifical records ( registers of their own cheats under better names and colours ) ; that it spake latine in the audience of many . what it spake was it seems to this sense , o ye matrons ! ye , by the holy law of the commonwealth , have made this dedication of me . where there was not this deeper art , much was contributed towards the delusion of the people , by the solemn worship , the costly and pompous dress , the stately processions , the secret repositories of the idols of the heathen . distance procured reverence , and the splendor of gold ( of which some consisted , and the gilding by which others a were made very glorious ) created amusement b in the eyes and fancies of the vulgar , who have scarce reason enough to correct their senses . the statuaries were not masters of much true art : we see little of proportion in their images , or of ordonance in their tables . that of isis shews an ill hand , and a worse judgment . but of such art as might amuse and astonish , either with pleasant or frightful magnificence , there was enough among the rudest gentiles . in goa the heathens of east-india c built a temple of black stone , and shaped their pagods , or idols , in figures of horror . in pegu d they abounded with idols of pure gold , whose crowns were enriched with valuable jewels . one of these was of a prodigious heighth , and they called him apalita , and supposed him to be a guide to pilgrims . they had also a statue of silver in the proportion of a giant ; and he was such a patron among them as mars was among the greeks and romans . peter della valle e speaks of an image in ahineli in the same india , called virena . it stood ( as he describes it ) at the upper-end of a temple upon a tribunal , in a dark and solemn place . it had many candles set before it in the time of its worship . they carried it sometimes in procession , under a rich canopy , with noises of musick , with perfumes , and lighted tapers . there were other inferior idols serving as his attendants . and they had diadems like to those of the images of saints at rome , or like to the regno or pontifical crown of the pope . he said it , who was both a roman , and a roman catholick . and his description of virena puts me in mind of that of the virgin of halla made by lipsius a : it stands aloft , it is lighted with tapers , it is of silver ; the image of christ and of the twelve apostles are nigh it ; an angel stands on either side , a silver lamp hangs by . this pomp amuseth ; it is well if it hath not a more idolatrous effect . the forecited della valle describes a carr in ikkeri b , in which the idols were carried in pompous procession ; the carr was exceeding high , and so very great that scarce any but one of the widest streets of rome would ( he saith ) have been capable of receiving it , and giving it passage . arnobius observeth concerning the gentiles c , that they designed to create fear by the manner in which they framed the statues of the gods. hence ( as he noteth ) sythes and clubs , and thunder-bolts were appendages to their idols . i will end these instances with a discourse of st. austin's in his fourth epistle . for idols , who is there that doubts whether they be void of all perception ? but when they are by an honourable sublimeness , placed on their thrones , and observed by them who pray and offer sacrifice ; those idols by the likeness of animated members , and of organs of sense ( though indeed there be no life in them ) do so affect the minds of vveak people , that they appear to them to live and to breathe : they do so especially through the veneration of the multitude , vvhilst so pompous and so divine a worship is bestovved on them . there being then in most of such idols , no divine virtue , but an artificial form and motion ; they vvho worshipped them , whatsoever they intended to worship in them , were truly said to worship them themselves . this i may illustrate by the confession of arnobius who was once himself a pagan infidel a . i worshipped ( said he ) , oh my blindness ! such gods as came out of the smith's furnace , and such as were fashioned by the hammer and anvil . i worshipped the bones of elephants : [ for they , as peireskius b noteth , were honoured by mistake , for those of giants . ] i adored a smooth stone , and a wooden statue . i flattered the image , as if there were a deity present there : i spake to it , i asked benefits of it , though it perceived nothing . the prophets therefore used an argument most accommodable to the gentiles , and tending the most ready way to their conviction . for if they vvould not have been most sottishly credulous c , if they would not have permitted their fancies to have imposed upon their understandings ; if they would but have examined matters of fact with any degree of diligence and impartiality , the generality of them might have known concerning their images , that they had usually no more of inspiration or divinity in them , than the stones of their streets , or the posts of their doors d . the fathers in their disputations with the heathens , do frequently use this argument against their images , and deride them for worshipping things which can neither help men nor themselves e . and thence by the way , i take leave to observe that if they believ'd the bread to be christs real natural body , they argued with inconsistence . for then it would have been an obvious retort , that the object which they themselves worshipped in the sacrament could not deliver it self from a contemptible mouse . from the importance of this discourse , some answer may be returned to an argument used by the learned mr. thorndike a , who supposed idolatry to consist in polytheism . he would prove the calf or idol of samaria to have been the ultimate object of them who adored it ; because in amos b it is objected to them , that the workman made it , and therefore it was not god. here the prophet only useth an argument which appealeth to their own reason , and which they might have used themselves , but did not . judg among your selves ( said he in effect ) whether this statue thus framed can be a god , what divine power soever you think to reside in it ; yet you do by interpretation , make it your god , because you worship that which is before you , and there is nothing but the image it self ; nothing in it , no virtue issuing from it . wherefore , notwithstanding your imagination , which your common reason might correct , the thing it self is your deity or your idol . and the prophet does not only argue against an idol as against a thing made with hands , but also as a statue which contained in it no more of coelestial influence than a common image . for he foretelleth in the sixth verse , that it was to be broken ; and in the fifth , seventh , and eighth verses , he observeth , that it could not save them from captivity , but on the other hand , exposed them to it . part . of their worshipping daemons more than god. last of all , the gentiles were idolaters by justling out the worship of the supreme god , or very much of it , through their officiousness in the service of inferior deities . they could not but be guilty if they gave away gods honour , in whole , or in part . and in part at least , it is certain that they converted it to the use of creatures . god who governeth the world ought to have received the honour of their devout prayers , and becoming sacrifices ; and the greatest part of these , and sometimes the whole of them was offered to daemons . for who esteemeth that tenant faithful to the honour and interest of his lord , who payeth the greatest rent to another , and offereth him a pepper-corn , though he hath reserved the whole propriety , and the very reception to himself . divers masters cannot be at the same time observed with equal duty : and devotion cannot flow in the same plenty , in divers streams , as in one . therefore when tarquinius priscus multiplied deities , and introduced statues among the romans , their religion was immediately much debased : when they had many jupiters , and a great croud of other deities , and every deity had its statue , its altar , its sacrifice , its temple ; little time was left , and as little zeal for the worship of the god of heaven and earth . to him some of them scarce ever said a prayer , or offered a sacrifice . porphyry thought not such services to be agreeable to the supreme god a , but he concluded that men were to adore him , without words , without sacrifices , in silence , with a pure mind . but this was a worship so abstracted , that few other heathens either performed it , or so much as understood it . yet some might do both . for confusio the famed philosopher of china b , acknowledg'd one supreme god ; but he did not serve him with temples , altars , priests , or prayers ; though by such worship he idolized the heavens , the earth , and man. let this then from the premises be the conclusion of the present chapter , that the gods of the heathen are idols and vanities , and unworthy the submission of any reasonable creature c . chap. vi. concerning the idolatry of the jews , and particularly of their worshipping the golden calf . also of the egyptian symbol of apis , as at that time not extant . and of the probable reasons which set up moses as the original apis. part . of the provisions made by god against idolatry among the jews . the israelites by their constitution were of all nations a people the most averse to idolatry . their first commandment prescribeth the worship of one god. their second forbiddeth external religious honour to graven images ; which by the exhibition of that honour , whatsoever they were before , become very idols . wherefore st. cyprian a thus renders the sense of the command , thou shalt not make to thy self an idol . and the contention about the translation of pesel , by graven thing , idol , or image , is with respect to the design of moses , an unnecessary grammar-war . this second command against the worship of images , the jews have esteemed the great command of all . their very moneys have had on the obvers the name of moses inscribed ; and on the revers , that second precept or prohibition b . their third command , [ thou shalt not take , or bear in thy mouth c the name of jehovah thy god in vain , ] may seem also to discountenance idols , and to forbid all oaths of promise made by them in the name of god , by which they often called their false deities . it may seem to forbid not so directly the breach of neder , a vow to the lord , as schefugnah , ( according to the distinction of the jews ) a , a vow by the lord , or by his name , when that name was used in signifying some idol . i say it may seem so to do ; for that it does so , i rather guess than affirm . in this conjecture i am helped by tertullian : that father discoursing concerning the unlawfulness of naming the gods of the gentile-world b , maketh use of this distinction ; he teacheth that the bare naming of them is lawful , because it is necessary in discourse , but he condemneth the naming of them in such manner as if they were really gods. after this distinction he pursueth the argument in this manner : the law saith c , you shall make no mention of the names of other gods , neither shall they be heard out of your mouths . this it commanded , that we should not call them gods . for it saith in the first part [ or table ] of it , thou shalt not take up the name of the lord thy god in vain , that is , in an idol d . he therefore fell into idolatry who hononred an idol with the name of god. but if they must be called gods , i should add something by which it may appear that i do not own them to be gods. for the scripture it self calls them gods , but then it addeth [ by way of discrimination ] their gods , or the gods of the nations . in such manner david called them gods , when he said the gods of the nations were devils — it is a customary wickedness to say , mehercule . — and it proceeds from the ignorance of some who know not that they swear by hercules . now what is swearing by those whom [ in baptism ] you have forsworn [ or renounced ] but a corrupting of the faith with idolatry ? for who does not honour those he swears by ? to this purpose are those words in hosea a : though thou israel play the harlot , yet let not judah offend ; and come not ye unto gilgal , neither go ye up to beth-aven , [ or bethel , ] now become a house of iniquity , vanity , or idolatry , b , nor swear the lord liveth . that is , seeing they worship the golden calves , which are really idols , though they give to them the name of jehovah , as setting them up for his symbol ; yet use not you that word there , or the form of their oath by jehovah ; for thereby you will take up the name of god , and the name by which he is most eminently distinguished , in vain , or in an idol . idols are elilim , or vanities : they are very lyes , at once to use the terms the prophet gives them , and to allude to the syriack version of the third command , [ thou shalt not take up the name of the lord thy god with a lye . ] he therefore who sweareth by them without distinction , calling them gods , or giving them any names which signifie divine power ; he that sweareth , or voweth by coelum or coelus , that is , the heavens ; by pluto , or the earth : such a one does not only dishonour the name of the true god , but he doth also by interpretation forswear himself ; for he sweareth by an idol , lie , or vanity ; vowing by its help to perform his oath , which therefore he cannot by that means perform , because he trusteth to an helpless thing , though by his trust he honoureth it as a divine power . further , one great end of the fourth command was the prevention of idolatry . the seventh day was observed as a memorial of that one god the creator of the world , and the god of israel ; and they who kept it holy , kept it holy to jehovah , and made profession hereby that they were not gentiles , who worshipped many gods , but the seed of abraham who served but one , the god of that patriarch , and of isaac , and jacob. this ( saith mr. mede ) was the end of the sabbath a , that thereby , as by a symbolum , or sign , that people might testifie and profess what god they worshipped . he ought , it may be , to have spoken this with limitation , and called it a great end : and that it was such , is evident from the text of moses , than whom , no man better understood the levitical oeconomy . to him god spake b saying , speak thou also to the children of israel , saying , verily my sabbaths ye shall keep : for it is a sign between me and you , throughout your generations , that ye may know that i am the lord who doth sanctifie you , [ or set you apart as my worshippers , distinct from those who worship idols . ] — wherefore the children of israel shall keep the sabbath to observe the sabbath throughout their generations , for a perpetual covenant . it is a sign between me and the children of israel for ever . for in six days the lord made heaven and earth , and on the seventh day he rested [ or ceased ] and was refreshed , [ or was pleased with that exceeding good and beautiful frame of things , which his wisdom , goodness and power had made . ] a like end there was of the levitical sacrifices . god needed them not ; the sacrifice of a pure and humble mind was more agreeable to him who is an intellectual spirit . but the israelites doted on such a gross manner of expressing their devotion . and seeing they must needs offer sacrifice , it pleased god to give them a law which might at once indulge them in their inclination , and restrain them from sacrificing unto idols ; whilft it appropriated that service to god alone , and denied it to angels and men. to this purpose st. cyril discourseth c , and this is the sense of the words of that father . god had no thirst which was to be quenched with blood . he required not of himself so gross and material a worship , but one more spiritual , perfected by universal virtue . he required a life honesty and integrity , and such as shone honourably with good works ; a right contemplation of the deity , and a true and blameless knowledg , and practice of that which is really good . but because the feeble and earthly minds of the israelites could not without difficulty be brought off from the worship and ungodly manners , and detestable superstition of the egyptians ; therefore god by the pedagogy of the mosaic law , gave them a spiritual command against many gods , and yet permitted them , after the ancient manner of the worship to which they had been accustomed , to offer eucharistical and expiatory oblations , duly and wisely appointed , and as types and shadows of good things to come . — for the beginnings a of sciences are imperfect , and by the gradual additions of little and little , they arrive at their compleat stature . touching the whole law of moses as mosaical , maimonides saith of it b that the principal design and intention of it was the removal of idols . part . of the idolatry of the jews . it appeareth then that god gave the jews sufficient antidotes against idolatry ; and it is as manifest that their folly rendred them very often ineffectual . they by their ritual inclination , by cohabitation , by commerce , by apish affectation of foreign modes , learned the egyptian , assyrian , and babylonian idolatries . some of this leaven brake out in the wilderness . there they began to lean towards the worship of false gods by adoring the true one ( as shall be shewed ) in the unmeet symbol of the golden calf . hence god in his just judgment , gave some of them up to the direct worship of false gods a , besides the true one , though not wholly without him . they worshipped moloch ( as some think * by the tabernacle which the priests took up , and remphan by a star , and the host of heaven . amongst that host of orderly lights , some have placed the prototype of apis , and supposed him to be the sun. but it seemeth absurd to say , that god permitted the people of the jews to fall into the worship of the sun afterwards , because they had worshipped him already . at the entrance of the people into canaan , that generation who had seen the hand of god so remarkably upon their disobedient and idolatrous forefathers , and who by his miraculous power and mercy were possessed of part of the good land , did in pious manner adhere to him . and when joshuah , under whose wise and successful conduct they had been brought over jordan , advised them at his death , to renounce the idols of their fathers , and of the amorites b , they with pious earnestness cried out , god forbid that we should forsake the lord to serve other gods. and they ratified this holy resolution of theirs by a solemn covenant betwixt them and joshuah . joshuah being dead , and that pious generation being gathered to their fathers , there arose c another generation after them who knew not [ or owned not ] the lord , — but served baal and ashtaroth . this idolatrous disposition continued in the people under their judges d , insomuch that in the time of eli ( e ) the palladium of israel , the ark of the covenant , was permitted to fall into the hands of the philistins . they were a very terrible enemy to the israelites for many years : and in order to the removal of their yoke , and to the regaining the favour of god , samuel f spake unto all the house of israel , saying , if you do return unto the lord with all your hearts , then put away the strange gods , and ashtaroth from among you , and prepare your hearts unto the lord , and serve him only ; and he will deliver you out of the hand of the philistins . then the children of israel did put away baalim [ the idols of the sun a , ] and ashtaroth , [ in the lxx . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the idols in the groves of astarte , or the earth ] and served the lord only . such piety of samuel their judg , and of david their king , and of solomon also in the former part of his reign , together with gods presence in that magnificent temple built by him , did much promote the true religion , and stop the growth of idolatrous worship . but at length solomon himself gave them an unhappy example of it in his own person , being seduced to idols by the charms and softnesses of his many heathen women b so fatal an evil is lust to the best understandings , which whensoever it posfesseth them , it perfectly besotteth , and reigneth over them with uncontrouled power . this impiety was manifest in solomon about the thirtieth year of his reign , as chronologers commonly account . but the more secret beginning of his defection is by josephus and other jews dated from the images of oxen made at his command , as supporters of the brazen sea c . it is the common opinion of the arabians , and particularly of abulfarajus d , that solomon died in his sin without repentance . of that god is judg . it is more certain that before he died , he persisted in it notwithstanding a repeated appearance of gods shechinah e , and that god was highly displeased with him , and threatned to rend the kingdom from him after his death . of that rent the instrument was jeroboam , by whose means one kingdom became divided into two , rather factions than kingdoms , those of judah and israel . in the latter jeroboam set up two golden calves which the people worshipped at dan and bethel ; he being jealous a that if they sacrificed at jerusalem , they would return to their allegiance due to the king of judah . for this and other sins god suffered the ten tribes to be for ever led captive . judah also polluted it self with idolatry . it began under rehoboam after his three good years of government , and came to its height under athaliah , ahaz , and manasseh b ; and at length judah likewise was carried into captivity . after her return from captivity under the favour of cyrus , many of the jews were more faithful to the true god , being sensible that for their serving of idols he had cast them out of his most safe protection ; and the statue of moses on an ass , found by antiochus in the holiest , is one of the tales of diodorus * . yet after this great deliverance , divers of them relapsed , through that persecution against them , and that toleration of all gentilism in judea , of which antiochus epiphanes was the author c . he set up the abomination of desolation , the idol of jupiter olympius , on the altar of god ; and idol apt to move the pious jews to forsake the city , and to leave it desolate . many of the israelites d [ either through fear , or vain inclination ] consented to his religion , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( as the seventy ) to his worship ; and they sacrificed to idols , and profaned the sabbath . but some e chose rather to sacrifice their own lives than to offer to idols . the samaritans of all others were under this tyrant the most disloyal to god ; they send letters of flattery to this impious monster , of which josephus in the twelfth book , and seventh chapter of his antiquities , hath given us a copy . they inscribe them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to antiochus the illustrious god. they feign themselves to be the off-spring of the sidonians and persians , that they may not be taken for jews , whom he hated . they consecrate a temple on mount gerazim , to the jupiter of grece , and by such vile arts they insinuate themselves into the favour of antiochus , who commandeth that they be esteemed , and used as grecians . and yet a while after under ptolomaeus philometor , they abhor idols , and contend with the jews themselves about the sanctity of their temple , which they preferred before that of jerusalem it self . the jews by this means , and by former commerce with grecians , in divers of their cities and colonies , and particularly in their own jerusalem , [ which alexander himself is said to have visited ; ] and in alexandria , [ where the ptolomies had advanced the worship of grece , and in which philo in his time numbered exceeding many jews a ; ] became leavened with the grecian demonology b . this thales learnt in egypt , and he enlarged and propagated it in the regions of grece . i cannot accuse the jews of erecting statues , or of offering solemn prayers , or sacrifices to them . yet all who mark that translation of the seventy which is commonly in mens hands , may charge at least the hellenistick jews , with a false and dangerous estimation of daemons ; with an estimation of them as presidents and tutelar spirits , who under god did govern the world. he that runs may read thus much in their version of the eighth verse of the thirty-second of deuteronomy : when the most high divided the nations c , when he separated the sons of adam , he set the bounds of the people [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ] according to the number [ not of the children of israel , as the hebrew copy readeth it , but according to the number ] of the angels of god ; who ( they say ) were seventy , and whom they call the sanedrim above . such angels many jews imagined to have their thrones in several stars , whilst their footstools , or inferior places of government were in several parts of the earth . hence aben ezra saith a , that it appeared by experiments [ he meaneth sure miraculous effects succeeding the worship of patrons of places , ] that every nation and every city hath its particular planet to which it is subject . but he excepteth the people of israel , who being subject only to the government of god , had it seems no planet for their superintendent . also with allusion to the government of the nations by angels in stars and constellations , and not by immediate providence , the jews b in their liturgy give to god the name of the king of the kings of kings ; that is , the king of those angelical powers who rule over the potentates on earth . this belief of the hellenists containeth in it a twofold error : that of the lieutenancy of angels , and that of the innocency of those spirits which christianity calleth daemons , in the most infamous signification of that name . this double error is found in one passage of josephus , who recordeth it as one of the precepts of moses , [ of thales , he might have said more truly , ] that one citizen ought not to blaspheme those heavenly powers c which other cities have in esteem as gods. the jews after the coming of the messiah , had besides the motives of their religion , political reasons against images or idols . for they have been forced by a just vengeance pursuing such bloody murtherers , to live dispersedly under both christian and mahometan power . and in dominions of both kinds the worship of graven idols , ( besides that their zeal against them , and for their sabbath was instrumental , as the charracter of a party , to keep them still in some sort of body ) , would have much obstructed their toleration . the mahometans would have been , from the other extreme , averse to them ; their law forbidding all statues and graven or painted images . in pursuance of this law , their zeal defaced the grecian and roman coins , which had upon them the image of their emperours . it did so formerly , but since that time it is so much cool'd , that they do not believe the coin profaned by the superscription . nay , they prefer the venetian ducats which have images upon them , before their own sultanies which have none , but are stamped according to the will of their prophet a . but so it is often seen , that the principle of avarice becomes much stronger than that of false religion . in the days of julian the jews were noted amongst the gentiles as the worshippers of one god ; and , whatsoever their opinion was concerning angels , they were not observed for any external worship with which they honoured them . that apostate maketh this difference betwixt the jews and the gentiles of his age ; that the gentiles b worshipped many gods [ or daemons , ] but the jews one god only . and those unbelievers pretend , at this day , to the strictest observance of the second command . it may be here taken a little notice of , how the jews have been often accused by the gentiles , and amongst them by juvenal , petronius , and strabo , as worshippers of the clouds . if this reproach had been cast upon that religion whilst the ark remained in the most holy place , i should have thought it occasioned by that miraculous cloud which shadowed the mercy-seat , and towards which the high-priest did make his obeisance . but the scandal cannot be traced ( so far as my knowledg leads me ) beyond the days of augustus . mr. selden c once guessed that this reproach might arise from a mistake of the idiom of the jews , who called the majesty of god , heaven d . this idiom christ useth , whilst he demandeth concerning the baptism of john , whether it was of heaven or of men ; of divine or humane authority . afterwards he was induced to think that the slanderers of the jews mistook them for the gnosticks , who made so much noise about their heavens and aeons . at last he rejected the accusation with scorn , and placed it amongst such groundless and extravagant forgeries as that of their worshipping an ass , with which malicious ignorance had traduced them . but it is not my purpose to write an entire history of the jewish worship , or to tell how often they served one god , and how often they worshipped many . i will only insist on one instance , that peccatum maximum ( as the vulgar a latine calls it ) their greatest sin ; to wit , their idolatry committed with the golden calf . it is an instance which themselves take especial notice of , thinking that in every judgment sent to them by god b , there is , as they speak , an ounce of that idol ; and it is a subject which hath occasioned a controversie betwixt the papists and the reformed . part . of the worship of the golden calf . the golden calf was , either the ultimate object of the peoples worship , or a symbol of some deity which they finally honoured . cardinal cajetan in his commentary on exodus , supposeth the former , and thinketh them to speak properly in that form which they used , these are thy gods [ or this c is thy god ] who brought thee out of the land of egypt . as if those worshippers , though sufficiently brutish , were as stupid as the very idol it self : as if they could believe that their deliverance was miraculously wrought for them , by a statue which they saw formed after the time that they were delivered . wherefore cardinal bellarmine contendeth , that the speech hath a figure in it , and that the calf was a symbol of a deity , yet not of the true god , but of the idol apis which they had seen honoured with singular reverence in egypt . that it was not the ultimate object , but a symbol or image , is suggested by tertullian a , who calleth it , simulachrum vituli , not a god , but the image or idol of the calf . neither ought it to be dissembled that philo b , lactantius c , and st. hierom d , believe the calf to have been the statue of apis. to the great name of bellarmine i oppose that of tostatus , who e affirmeth those words of the people , [ these are thy gods , ] to carry this sense with them : o israel , god who was without body , and unseen , and who brought thee out of egypt , and gave thee a passage through the red sea , is he whom thou now seest ; that is , his divine virtue resideth in that golden body . nay , i may oppose to bellarmine the greater authority of the council of trent : the catechism set forth by order of that council , doth teach ( though not directly yet by consequence ) , that the calf of aaron was a symbol of jehovah , seeing it owneth the calves of dan and bethel to have been worshipped as his statues . now this latter it acknowledgeth , because it owneth them in israel , who halted betwixt god and baal ( as also the samaritans ) to have been divided betwixt the true god and false deities or idols f . what deities then were the extreams betwixt which these unstable and giddy israelites did visibly stagger ? did not they stagger betwixt the new religion of baal g , learned from the zidonians ? and the more ancient and less corrupt , h yet too much depraved one of the god of israel , who ( as appeareth by his name i and rites k used there ) was worshipped by those symbols taken without divine allowance , from the cherubim on the ark which were only appendages of the shechinah , and not intermediate objects of the high priests reverence . if these symbols had not been used as the shechinah of the true god , jeroboam would not have been so severely blamed for making the lowest of the people priests of the high places ; for the vilest and meanest people , the lees and dreggs of the world had been the fittest instruments in the servicc of idols . like deity , like worshippers . now to this worship at dan and bethel jeroboam was moved by his political interest , which made it necessary for him to continue the schism , not by dividing the israelites from their god , whom they would not wholly renounce , but by setting apart distinct places and symbols of his especial presence . there were in israel secret worshippers of god , after a right negative manner , no less than seven thousand , who served god only . but such as these were not visible to the prophet who bemoaneth himself , as if the church [ the church of israel ] was confined to his own person . he therefore meaneth not by his halters such as sometimes worshipped the true god in holier manner than jeroboam prescribed , and sometimes baal , [ a name common both to the new and old idols a ] : for them he could not openly upbraid of whom he had no knowledg . his meaning jehu expoundeth when b he opposeth the priests of baal to the servants of the lord : for what other servants than the priests of jeroboam did then publickly officiate in israel ? for ahab succeeded his father omri who had established the vanities or idols c of the calves , and sinned beyond jeroboam himself d . and ahab was so far from restoring gods pure worship , that he outwent his father omri in encouraging that which was false and degenerate . so properly may the aetas parentum in horace , be here applied . against the authorities of philo , lactantius , and s. hierom before-cited , i put into the ballance the words of aaron . aaron called the idolatrous festival , a feast to jehovah , making use ( as micah a did afterwards ) of the most revered name of god. i argue not here from the bare imposition of that word , for idolaters did learn to give to creatures that incommunicable name b . but i argue from the reverence which is due to aaron the select high priest of the god of israel . he offendeth extremely against charity and good manners , who thinketh of such a person , that he would pacifie a clamorous people with so vile a condescension . he had a better design , howsoever the madness of the people perverted it . it cannot be thought that the god whom he served in so sacred an office , should be so soon forgotten by him , and so ungratefully and wretchedly dishonoured in a base egyptian idol , passing under the most separate name of jehovah . it was ill enough that he set up a symbol of gods presence where he had not appointed him c . it was a crime sufficiently high that he had erected an undue statue , or an arbitrarious external sign of gods presence , though not an image of him ; for such the cherubims were not . for i suppose he took his pattern from part of what he saw in the holy mount , when the shechinah of god came down upon it , attended with angels . of them some were cherubims , or angels appearing with the faces of oxen ; as i afterwards shew d . now it was a great presumption to worship god in any other , than in his proper and allowed symbol , ( as rightly e altisiodorus ) though it happened to be a cherub , and not apis. the sacrifices offered in the worship of the calf were not agreeable to any egyptian idol . for amongst them at that time the blood of a bull was as great an abomination as was the blood of a swine to the hebrews . at that time i say , for after the macedonian conquest a , the idol apis it self had in the suburbs beasts solemnly offered in sacrifice to it . also before those times all the egyptians sacrificed clean and male bullocks , if herodotus b be an author of credit . and it appeareth by the history of elijah that beasts were offered upon the altars of the zidonian c baal , or sun , from whom they had expectation of an answer by fire . but he was either asleep at that time , with his eye closed by the air , then in disposition for clouds , or in his journey of diurnal motion , and did not , or rather could not mind their sacrifice . however in those early times , and with reference to egypt d , the sacrifices of oxen which the people offered at the golden calf , do prove it to be something else than the symbol of apis : unless a man would say that they honoured old idols with their new rites , as afterwards they did , worshipping moloch e with the rites of the tabernacle of jehovah . they did not , as i think , dethrone god , but joined that false god with him , and corrupted true religion with mixtures of gentilism . part . of the idol apis. apis the living ox , was an idol of ancient standing ; for the grecians who lived before the times of alexander f make mention of it . herodotus is one of them ; and he recordeth the slaughter of apis by cambyses , who was the second monarch of persia. he likewise introduceth the egyptians alledging the festivity of the appearance of apis as an ancient holiday g . they professed it to be a custom , that they might appease that vehement passion which a mistake had raised in him . for when he found them rejoycing at the appearance of apis , he imagined them triumphing at that defeat of his forces which he had newly sustained . by this it is plain , that the idol apis was ancient , but to me it seemeth not to have existed at all as such before the death of moses . and this i here design to shew by reasons allowable in philological matters , though i have not the vanity to call them infallible proofs . if this can be done , the controversie will of it self fall to the ground , seeing the very subject of it will be removed . there are few stories more uncertain than the antiquities of chaldea and egypt , of which kingdoms the former seemeth to be the more ancient a by about forty years : and all that is said of either of them beyond the days of phaleg , is vanity and imposture . their vain and ignorant priests , and men not much unlike them , the mythologers of grece , have set the accounts of time backward and forward , and given feigned pedigrees both to their gods and their princes . and they have so confounded fable and history , that both have been swallowed by many without distinction . this confusion hath hapned in nothing more than in their historical theology ; and i think the story of the idol apis may serve as a considerable example of it . herodotus , pliny , strabo , ammianus marcellinus , all make different descriptions of it : and the image of that idol in the table of isis does still differ from each character in those writers b . in all things i shall not be able at this distance of time , to separate falshood from truth . but in the point of its antiquity i do not despair of proving its common date to be fictitious . before the deliverance of israel out of egypt , oxen were very sacred among the egyptians c . but they were then , if i mistake not , no otherwise sacred than many creatures were afterward among the pythagoreans a , and are at this day among the brachmans of india . that is , they were not touched with violent hand , or weapon : they were not used for food , or offered in sacrifice . hence strabo speaking of apis at memphis b , and mnevis at heliopolis [ in times much nigher to us ] , does say of those idols that they were reputed deities , whilst the oxen in other places were held as sacred creatures , but not as gods c . whether they were esteemed sacred animals in memory of joseph , or from their use in tillage d , or for some deeper reason , i pretend not to tell : for , it seems , themselves could not agree about the original of their superstitions e . sacred then they were in some sense , before moses became a law-giver to israel . but that there was any one ox selected so early as an object of religious worship , is an opinion taken up without ground from history . my eyes at least have not been able to espie so much as an imperfect footstep of it . had such an idol existed , and been imitated also by the israelites in the wilderness , st. stephen in his epitome of their history , and particularly in that part of it wherein he remembreth their idolatry with the calf , could as easily have upbraided them with the false deity apis , as he did with those f of moloch and remphan . the learned mr. selden , who referreth the golden calf to the egyptian pattern , does two ways endeavour to obviate this objection against the antiquity of apis g . first , he contendeth that this worship of apis or osiris is sufficiently ancient , because it terminateth in the sun , which was reputed a divine power at the very birth of idolatry . now this reason , if it proveth any thing , it proveth too much ; much more than mr. selden himself will own as truth . for from hence it will follow , both that the idolatry of egypt was as ancient as that of babylon , and that the whole almost of the egyptian idolatry , which was exceeding various , commenced at the same time . there was scarce any idol set up there , but in one respect or other it was referred to that glorious body . it scarce shined upon any thing , which was not at some time or other consecrated to it . the lion , the hart , the hare , the eagle , the hawk , the crow , the cock , the goose , the upupa ; the pine-tree , the nile ; all these , and many others were sacred to the sun , as may to those , who care not to turn the leaves of many authors , appear compendiously in the harpocrates of cuperus a . yet these idols were erected upon divers occasions , and as the humor at divers times possessed fanciful and superstitious men . secondly , mr. selden b produceth in favour of the antiquity of the idol apis , the testimony of eusebius . eusebius ( he says ) affirmeth of apis , that in the days of king aseth , a calf was deified and called by that name . and for king aseth , mr. selden supposeth him to have reign'd in egypt in the days of isaac . but he hath gained little strength to his cause , by producing a witness who contradicteth himself . for euseb. elsewhere c relates that apis and mnevis were deified under choos , who is said to have reigned in the d . dynastie after the flood . for this he citeth manetho a grecising fabler , who disagreeth with herodotus , and diodorus , and fetcheth his relation from pretended pillars , uncertain both for the place , and the inscriptions of them . little credit is given by the judicious to his dynasties . he maketh in them contemporary persons to succeed each other ; he maketh many kings out of the several deputies of one . he maketh egypt no ancient monarchy , as the scripture doth . for at the same time that menis reigned at thebes , he setteth up saïtes as a king over other parts of egypt a . it must indeed be granted , that though eusebius contradicteth himself in assigning the particular time ; yet it serveth the purpose of mr. selden , that in both instances he referreth to time ancient enough . he doth so in those places . but in others which mr. selden hath not cited , he setteth a more modern date to the apotheôsis of apis. in his book of evangelical preparation b , he ascribeth to chenephren king of egypt , both the deification of their ox , and the imposition of the name of apis. he addeth , that thenceforth the people erected a temple to that idol . now he maketh this king kenephren contemporary with moses , and one who reverenced his person , and received from him the rite of circumcision . all this eusebius has taken from artapanus in his history of the jews . for artapanus i cannot say much in confirmation of his fidelity . yet i think him of weight enough to be put into the scale against manetho the sebennite , a writer so absurdly confident in his fictions , that he maketh menis equal to adam c . the same eusebius in his cronicon , sets down epaphus , or apis as born in the reign of chencres , that is , of the abovesaid chenephren , as may be conjectured both from the affinity of the names , and the agreement of the time . for he reporteth of chencres ( called also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or the rebel against almighty god ) that he perished in the red sea. he was therefore contemporary with moses , and no other than that pharoah who bade defiance to the god of israel , and fell as a sacrifice to his omnipotent justice . that he was born in the reign of chencres , if it respecteth the natural birth of moses , is a mistake , yet such a one as is common in ancient chronology , which is not exact to a day or a year ; for he was about fourscore years old at his going forth from egypt : but the time of his civil birth may be then accounted when he began to head the israelites , and to say to pharoah , let the people go that they may serve their god. then god said to him in effect , thou art my son , a prince and lieutenant under me ; this day have i begotten thee , or created thee a ruler . if then the person represented by an ox was not more ancient than the deliverance by moses , much less was the golden apis extant in egypt at that time of his departure . yet mr. selden will have this golden ox a to be the pattern of the idolatrous israelites , and not the living beast . it is true , that plutarch b mentioneth a golden ox , and telleth how for four days together it was exposed with great solemnity , during the disappearance of apis , or , as he expoundeth it , at the decrease of osiris , or the nile . and in pliny we read of a golden cat c worshipped by the citizens of rhadata in egypt . i doubt not but that such a golden image was extant , many years before plutarch wrote of isis and osiris . he is a grave author , and a man of singular skill in the more modern affairs of egypt . but it is not shewn by him , or by any other historian , that such a statue was framed at the beginning of the worship of that idol . of this herodotus , the father of secular history , taketh no notice , though he had just occasion so to do in his discourse of the disappearance of apis , if any such thing had been then in being d . also in his description of the palace said to be built for apis by psammitichus e , he drops not a word concerning any such golden calf , though he mentioneth divers types [ hieroglyphical , or ornamental figures ] with which that palace abounded . nay lucian denieth that any figures or statues had place in the ancient temples of egypt f . part . of the originals of apis and serapis . the objections of mr. selden being thus removed out of my way , i proceed in inquiring after the true and original apis. apis was not ultimately the living ox , but some deifi'd person , of whom the ox was the symbol ; or ( as diodorus ( a ) reporteth ) the receptacle into which his soul passed in its transmigration . that he was a man all writers agree , unless they be of the strain of porphyry b . he was unwilling to own so mean and dishonourable a thing of his heathen gods , as to acknowledg them to have been dead men ; wherefore he would needs perswade the world that apis was sacred to the moon only . this he would infer from the white spot on the right side of apis , in the form of the moon . that mark indeed is mentioned by pliny and ammianus marcellinus ; but in more ancient times the ox had no such character on him . herodotus is accurate in his description , and he omitteth not his minute marks , of which this of the moon is none . the bullock ( saith he ) called apis c hath these signs : in its body it is all black , [ for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the text of herodotus is mistaken for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : ] on its forehead it hath a white spot of a four-square figure ; on its back it hath the image of an eagle ; on its tongue a scarabee , and two hairs on its tail. the superstition of after-times encreased his hieroglyphical marks . to the sun or moon this ox might be sacred , and also to some departed hero , or heroess , for so were the idols of osiris and isis. but historians are not agreed about the hero called apis. each of them almost has a several conjecture . suidas [ in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] supposeth him to have been a king of egypt , bearing that name of apis , and to have obtained after death divine honour , for his liberality to the citizens of alexandria , whom he supplied with corn in time of famine . the like confusion of apis and serapis is found in ruffinus a . he mentioneth the famine at alexandria , and the supply by apis. but concerning him he knows not whether he were a king of egypt , or a father of a lesser family at memphis . of this apis , whoever he was , he reporteth further out of an uncertain gentile historian , that he had a temple at memphis built in honour of him : also that within the temple an ox ( the symbol of a good husbandman ) was preserved , and honoured divinely by the name of apis. the name of serapis joined with that of apis in suidas , and that city of alexandria mentioned by both of them , do plainly shew whence this fable came , from modern grece , not from ancient egypt . herodotus and diodorus knew no such king of egypt as apis ; neither is there any such royal name before the days of moyses , in the chronology of eratosthenes , or manetho ; though the latter had set it down , time enough , for the name of an idol . it is true , that in syncellus the seventh king of the inferiour egypt is called serapis . but the judicious reader of syncellus will have little regard to him in this point ; both because he findeth the third king in his catalogue set down by the late , and plainly greek name of aristarchus ; and because he cannot but know that serapis came very late out of grece to alexandria . as he was originally a grecian deity he was no other than pluto , of whom the three-headed cerberus was the emblem ; he having dominion ( an empire given him by their fancy ) over the water , gross air , and earth , though principally over the latter of them b . in egypt he was received with great devotion , as if he had been a kind of husband to their isis , when she signified the earth ; and a god proper for their nilus , and their fertile soil . to this invention they soon added , and sometimes they confounded him with their apis and osiris ; and sometimes they honoured him as the sun , or nature , or the soul of the world. in the temple of alexandria his mighty image reached one side of it with its right hand , and the other with its left ; and it was made of all woods and metals ; and by an artificial window ( as has been said already ) it admitted the sun-beams . in some of its statues he represented jupiter in the head , neptune in the belly , as also pluto , and other stygian deities ; in the ears , mercury , and apollo in the eyes a . thus it fared with this idol , which when superstition had dressed it , was the least part of its former self . there is something in the name aesculapius which soundeth like apis , and on him some have fixed . he indeed is of sufficient antiquity , if he be ( what a learned man b thinks him ) king tosorthrus the successor of menis . but i meet with no reason offered for the proof of these matters . the sound of the name in latine and greek i allow not as a reason : the ancient egyptian name was neither aesculapius , nor ( which is further removed ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , these being apparently of other countrys . add to this , that the greeks in the stromata of clemens c , oppose apis to aesculapius , and make the first the inventor , the second the improver of physick . somewhat like to this is said by st. cyril , who following the chase of pagan mythologers , doth make apis the inventor of physick , and the teacher of it to aesculapius d ; who thenceforth it seems left egypt , and travelled the world for the gaining of riches by this useful art , which in after-times was said proverbially to give them . and to this tale belongs another of serapis and aesculapius , as both meant by pluto a , who is conversant amongst metals , stones , roots , plants , subterraneous treasure , and whatsoever conduceth to the health and life of man. you see towards what nation , and what times , this aesculapius , apis , or serapis inclines , and that moses never knew him . there is still as little certainty in their opinion who confound the egyptian apis , with apis the argive , the son of phoroneus ; which apis , gerard vossius b supposeth to be that jupiter who was incestuously familiar with niobe . of the number of them who make the egyptian apis the same with the argive , hecataeus is one c . and he being himself an argive , is tempted to a vain fable in honour of his country . arnobius , out of mistake , rather than pride , confoundeth times and persons d , whilst he saith of apis , that he was born in peloponnesus , and called in egypt , serapis . they had spoken righter who called serapis the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the ] coffin , or grave of apis ; if they had meant this of pluto as the god of the earth , who as 't were swallowed up the worship of apis in his own at alexandria . herodotus himself [ though he never nameth the name of serapis , it being not then invented , ] is yet in a great error e when he maketh epaphus and apis to be the same . for epaphus , great grandfather to cadmus , was ( as aelian f noteth ) some ages after him . but we owe it to the pride of grece , that her accounts are so antedated and corrupted . little truth in the present argument may we expect from aristippus a grecian mythologer , in his arcadian story ; or from aristeas the argive g . of them the first maketh apis the son of phoroneus the founder of memphis ; the other affirmeth him to be that very serapis whom the egyptians worshipped . in the mean time pausanias h blotteth the very name of apis out of the line of the argives ; and aeschylus will not allow him the place of a king a . apollodorus , who owneth him in that quality b , is so far from transporting him into egypt , and honouring of him as the builder of memphis , ( a city built by menis c , whose memory it retains in the very name of it ; ) that he finds both his cradle and grave in his fathers country . his father left him too deeply engaged in a quarrel with telxion and the telchines d , to become a conquerour in egypt : and it was by their stratagems e that he died so immaturely and without issue in apia or peloponnesus . but if it were granted that the argive were also the egyptian apis , i see not the advantage which it could give to them who make his symbol the pattern of the golden calf . for both asricanus and tatianus f prove it of moses that he was equal with inachus , whom phoroneus the father of apis is said to succeed . the truth is , we are here fallen amongst dark and uncertain times , and can scarce tread with assurance in any path of grecian story , till we are come to the times of theseus . and so much plutarch with singular honesty and truth hath openly acknowledged . for inachus himself , some think him a fiction , some a man , others a river ; and amongst these latter is pausanias . the original apis adored in egypt , was no doubt a man ; but who he was , it is hard to discover ; so great is the perplexity which the blending as it were of his worship with that of serapis , after the macedonian conquest , has occasioned in this argument . bacchus , aesculapius , and serapis , each of them g in coins , marbles , and books , have the form sometimes of a bearded or aged man , and sometimes of a child . and this variety of form teacheth us that there was a more ancient and more modern bacchus , aesculapius , apis , or serapis , though under other names . for the grecian serapis , whatsoever his age was in grece , his worship was esteemed modern in egypt . the egyptians ( saith horus a , meaning all the people of that nation ) received not either saturn , or serapis , into their temples , till after the death of alexander the great . in his time they were admitted in his city of alexandria , of which pausanias saith , that it was famous for the temple of serapis , but could not with colour of reason pretend to the antiquity of that in memphis . of the naucratitae in egypt , celsus b himself confesseth , that it was not long since they received the deity of serapis . tacitus gives intimation of the union as it were of apis and serapis into one idol , where he speaketh of a temple built in rhacotis [ the place it may be taking its name from the shrine ] to the modern serapis , in the very place where one had been anciently consecrated to serapis and isis. [ that is , as he ought to have written it , of apis or osiris together with isis. ] after the death of alexander , the ptolomies advancing the power of grece , the superstitions of serapis were not confined to alexandria , but were imposed on all egypt . in this matter i find a very pertinent place in st. cyril c ; and i will here insert it . in the olympiad , ptolomeus philadelphus ruling in egypt , they report of serapis , that he was translated from sinope to alexandria ; that he was the same , with pluto ; that they built a shrine to his image called by the egyptians in their native tongue racotis , by which word they meant nothing but pluto ; and that they erected a temple nigh to these monuments . but here the greeks are at odds ; some thinking him to be osiris rather than pluto , and others apis. a mighty feud arising from hence , they composed the difference by giving to the statue the name of osirapis , both parties having a share in the name . in process of time osi was disused in pronunciation , and sarapis became the common name . thus were egyptian and grecian matters then confounded , as the roman were afterwards , of which we have a fit embleme in those ancient coins a , one side of which exhibited the head of augustus , and m. agrippa ; the other a crocodile . it is then no wonder if those who have written in succeeding times , have not well distinguished betwixt the egyptian apis , and the alexandrian serapis , whilst they found their rites and titles so interwoven . it is plain from the epistle of julian to the citizens of alexandria b , that he mistook both deities for one . for he speaks to the alexandrians , as to men whom he supposed to be originally grecians c : and he magnifieth their great god serapis d , and ascribeth to him the gift of his empire . and this i imagin to be the reason why serapis or pluto , above all the other gods of grece , was set up in egypt . for the empire of it was the thing principally valued by alexander ; and pluto being the god of this world in their opinion , and the deity that extended the macedonian power to egypt ; did therefore obtain the principal return of the gratitude of the conquerour . pluto ( i say ) or serapis was by heathen estimation , the god of this world : not the prince of all daemons , but the prince of terrestrial spirits inhabiting the earth , and the gross atmosphere that belongs to it . he was the beelzebub , the god of durt or earth ; the ruler of the terrene daemons , as they called them , and of subcoelestial places . they who will not assent to this conjecture , may consult porphyry e , who maketh serapis and pluto the same deity ; confineth not his power to the earth , but extendeth it to the air about it , ( whieh it seems was vehemently beaten by his order , for the driving away of daemons , and the introduction of his presence ) ; and setteth him over [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ] evil spirits , or daemons , who with gross vehicles were hovering about the earth . part . of the egyptian apis ; whether he were moses ? who the grecian apis or serapis was , i will no further inquire . but concerning the apis of egypt , i will for once personate an adventurer in philology , and see if any new discovery may be made , or rather be guessed at . for in these arguments he that looks for demonstration is in the ready way of having his hopes deluded . men here judg by verisimilitude ; and they judg persons in story to be the same by a few likenesses ; such as those of name and place : and they seldom consider the many particulars in which they differ , but attend to those few in which they agree . he that hath but one mark is sometimes taken for the person by the philological huy and cry : and 't is a wonder that some smatterer or other who has read of the idol semis in a promontory nigh lapland , has not thence found out sem and his off-spring in the north. i shall not argue here from the mere likeness of names , for i am about to find out moses in apis. the learned and diligent gerard vossius believed joseph to be apis a ; and before him , abenezra . joseph ( said he ) spake to pharaoh on this manner b , set me over the treasure of egypt , for i will be a faithful steward . and the king made him keeper of all the repositories of the land , and joseph became in some sort a king over all the country , and they called him apis. i know not whence he had this tale , yet fure i am that it maketh not much for the honour of joseph's modesty . but it is not here my purpose to refute the conceits of other men ; it will be well if i can any way establish my own , and shew with probability that moses is apis. we have heard already from eusebius , that apis ( miscalled epaphus ) was contemporary with chencres , and that chencres was the pharaoh that pursued moses . and we may further observe , what is affirmed by polemo a in his first book of the grecian story , that in the time of apis , a part of the egyptian forces made defection , and going forth , seated themselves in palestine , called syria , in the neighbourhood of arabia . now it may seem probable that moses was this apis , and not apis the son of phoroneus , as polemo believed ; if these three things be jointly considered : first , that moses was the ancient egyptian or arabian bacchus . secondly , that bacchus was the egyptian osiris . thirdly , that the ancient egyptian bacchus and osiris was no other than apis. for the first , it may be argued with shew of probability , that moses and bacchus are the same persons under differing names , from the parallel circumstances of their story . i speak still of the first egyptian bacchus ; for concerning the grecian dionysius ( or rather dionysus ) , it is prov'd by clemens of alexandria , that he was not put into the calendar of the gods till six hundred and four years b after the times of moses . now the parallel betwixt moses and bacchus was drawn long ago , by our learned countryman mr. hugh sanford c , and after him by gerard vossius d , and after both by the lord herbert of cherbury e . orpheus in his hymn of bacchus , celebrateth the honour of mises , whom he calleth dionysius . he comes we see within a point , as it were , of the name of moses . pausanias mentions an ancient tradition concerning bacchus , plucked in his infancy out of the waters . so moses we know escaped miraculously in his ark of rushes . bacchus is by the poets called [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] the son of a double mother . as such a one the holy history representeth moses , to whom the second mother was the daughter of pharaoh . plutarch reporteth it from the egyptians , that isis was the mother of bacchus , ( or , as lactantius a will have it of osiris . ) also that isis being dejected with sorrow , and drowned in tears , was carried to the queen by some of her maid-servants , and kindly received , and made nurse to her infant-son , whose name was palestinus . and the story of plutarch in his isis and osiris is the history in the bible concerning moses and his natural mother , and the daughter of pharaoh , in such little disguise , that the dullest eye ( a man would think ) might look thorough it . nothing is more common in the story of bacchus , than his going into arabia with a mixed multitude of men and women ; his flight to the red-sea ; his wars in the arabick india , ( for by that name the ancient europeans called those regions which lay beyond the midland-sea ) ; his fetching water out of a rock ; a miracle mentioned by euripides ; the image of a serpent carried in procession in his worship , and spoken of by nonnius . all which particulars seem to have relation to the circumstances of moses , to whom the ancient bacchus would have appeared more like , if he had not been disfigured by the new strokes which the mythological painters of the grecian bacchus have touch'd him with . these particulars , together with many more , are named to my hand , by sanford and vossius . they insist in especial manner on the education of bacchus in a mount of arabia called nysa , and supposed to be but a kind of anagram of sina . against this there lies an argument which i must not conceal , though i remember not that either mr. sanford or vossius have taken notice of it . this argument is grounded on a passage in curtius . that historian telleth , how alexander entring india , came to nysa , situate at the root of the mountain meron , and that the inhabitants of that place did pretend to be a people descended from bacchus . their mountain ( as he continueth his story ) was all covered with ivy and vines a . to this objection i would answer , that the india which alexander entred was not the arabia or arabick aethiopia of the ancient bacchus ; and that his nysa or nyssa , was plainly another town from that in curtius , being called by diodorus ( both in his third and fourth books of history ) the nyssa of arabia ; and by herodotus b , the nyssa of aethiopia ; and being said in homer c , to be nigh the waters of egypt . it was therefore situate in arabia petraea , called by the hebrews chus , which is generally translated aethiopia . the place mentioned by curtius by its name of nysa , and by the quality of its mountain , might fairly pretend to bacchus , as many cities did to one homer ; and as some parisians do to st. dennis the areopagite , though one younger by many years was more truly their apostle . and their pretence to bacchus , especially as dressed with his vines and ivy in the grecian mode , might the more reconcile them to the favour of a conquerour who came from macedon . this being said in answer to the argument taken from curtius , i will add only two remarks to the many of mr. sanford . the first , that bacchus was nursed by the hyades , the watry constellation of taurus d . the second , that he was born ( as orpheus testifies in his hymn on mises ) [ — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ] by the river , or nilus , of egypt . cuperus speaking in his harpocrates a , of the deities of egypt , does bid his reader not expect any concord in fables . i pretend not to be a thorough-reconciler , or to adjust all differences betwixt the heathen mythologers . each city almost had different gods , and a different scheme of theology ; and yet they used common names , and thereby perplexed both the present and the succeeding ages . osiris is sometimes pluto , bacchus , titan , phoebus , mithras , serapis , apis , oceanus , sol , sirius . isis , is minerva , proserpina , luna , thetis , diana , venus , ceres , juno , bellona , hecate , rhamnusia b . yet in this parallel betwixt bacchus and moses , so much concord appeareth , that a philologer may be inclined to take them for the same , notwithstanding the disparity which hath been occasioned by the intermixture of grecian and egyptian superstitions . be it then supposed as probable in the first place that bacchus is moses . i proceed in the next place to shew the less learned reader , that osiris is bacchus . osiris is a name big with ambiguity , and hath been applied to vary many of the heathen gods ; and eminently c to the sun , ( as also was apis d and e bacchus ) ; and sometimes supereminently , as i may so speak , being used to signifie a superior god , whose eye the sun was reputed f . apis himself is referred by some , in lucian g , to the coelestial bull , after the manner of the modern heathens , who being upbraided by the fathers as worshippers of dead and wicked men , reformed or disguised their ancient theology , and explained their superstitions by natural things . but the proper egyptian apis was a prince . and so was their osiris , or as orpheus calleth bacchus , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ] a legislator , and no other than bacchus . this herodotus testifieth in express words a . osiris ( saith he in his euterpe ) is dionysus , in the appellation of the greeks . diodorus siculus doth b after the same manner give the name of dionysus to osiris ; and he doth it upon the authority of the ancient greek poets , eumolpus and orpheus . and he affirms a while after c from ancient tradition , that osiris was bacchus . and a man would guess as much , whilst he reads of the escape of bacchus out of the waters , and of his education in the arabian nysa before remembred ; and then compareth with these particulars , the ark in which osiris was cast into the river , by the tanitick d mouth of nilus ; and the education of osiris in the same nysa , according to plutarch and diodorus e . to these particulars a third may be added , of the serpent in the tables of osiris and bacchus f . now these particulars seem also to relate to the ark , the holy mountain , the rod of moses . it remaineth that i shew in the third place that as moses is bacchus , and g bacchus osiris , so also that osiris is apis. apis hath been said to relate to the sun , as did osiris , but both were a deity sometimes of another kind . and in memphis it self h there were priests of vulcan , or the sun , distinct from those of apis. he was an hero , and the same with osiris . the bull apis is affirmed by diodorus i to be sacred to osiris amongst the egyptians . and again strabo saith directly k , that apis is osiris . and to them we may add plutarch , who asserteth , both that osiris and serapis are the same ; and that the bull apis was worshipped as the animated image of osiris . and to this agreeth the story of the solemn mourning in egypt at the disappearance , and the solemn joy there at the reappearance both of osiris and apis a . it is further observable , that bacchus is said b to have appeared in the form of a bull. that mnevis the second apis was called bacis c . that moses in manetho d , cited by josephus , hath the name osarsyphus , which seems but a great depravation of osiris , and scarce a greater one than that in macrobius e , of neton for mnevis . that in the coins of elagabalus and gallienus , serapis carries a measure adorned with a vine-leaf ; and is therefore as tristan concludeth , the same with bacchus . last of all , that phylarchus in plutarch f reporteth of bacchus , that he first brought out of india ( or arabia ) two bulls , the one called apis , the other osiris . in this last citation , some goropius becanus would confidently say , that the truth shineth so fairly through the fable , that we may discern in it moses , bacchus , osiris , apis , to be one man under four several names . other particulars might still be added in this argument ; as that some heathens imagined bacchus to have been worshipped in the temple of the jews g , under the emblem of the vine ; and that osiris , as well as harpocrates , is described h with his finger upon his mouth , representing ( as some would guess ) , the slow speech of moses . but enough ( i think ) has been said already to render it probable that moses was apis ; the thing which by such proofs and reasons as philology admitteth in other cases , was to be evinced . part . why moses might be idolized among the egyptians . i have been long already in this disquisition , but i am not yet at the end of it : for the curious may further offer to me with pertinence , these following questions . first , how moses came to obtain such divine veneration among the egyptians on whom he drew very grievous plagues , and from whom he removed a great army of their necessary servants ? secondly , why moses was honoured by an ox ? thirdly , whence that symbol received the name of apis ? fourthly , at what time this idolatrous worship of the symbol of moses commenced in egypt ? fifthly , when , and for what reason , it was divided into the worship of apis and mnevis ? i shall return something in answer to each query ; but i do not sooth up my self with the vain hope of giving such an answer as shall fully satisfie others , or so much as my self . this caution would have been the less necessary if all the other queries had been as easie to be resolved as the first , concerning the worship given in egypt to the symbol of moses . it is not my opinion alone that he was there honoured after death , with religious veneration . saint cyril of alexandria said the same many ages ago . and it was not his bare opinion , but he proved it by the authority of diodorus siculus . the place of st. cyril which i here refer to is this a : moses was well known to the greek historians . — for polemon in his first book of grecian history , maketh mention of him . so do ptolemaeus mendesius , hellanicus , pholochorus and castor , and many others . diodorus who inquired very curiously into the affairs of egypt , says , he heard of him from their wisemen ; and of him he thus writeth : after the ancient way of living in egypt , that ( which they talk of ) under their deities and heroes ; the people ( as they report ) were first brought to live by written laws , by a man of a very great mind , and of a most memorable new way of life among the jews ; one moses who was called a god a . for ( as st. cyril proceedeth to note on this place of diodorus ) when they saw moses most accomplished with every virtue , they called him a god , and , as i think of some of the egyptians , they gave him divine honour , being ignorant that the supreme god had said thus to him , behold i have given thee as a god to pharaoh . here we have it asserted that moses was highly honoured in egypt . and there were reasons enough for the honouring of him , and they might prove the occasions of making him an idol . for idolatry is veneration overmuch strained . moses was born and educated in egypt ; he was reputed the son of pharaoh's daughter ; he was learned in all the learning of the egyptians ; he shined in that court as the moon amongst the little and confused lights of the galaxie . he was the instrument of god in doing mighty wonders ; mighty beyond the power of natural , artificial , or diabolical magick . and these wonders god wrought by him in the eye of the african world. the holy scripture reporteth of him b that he did marvellous things in the fields of zoan , or tanis , the metropolis of the lower egypt . also , that c that he was very great in the land of egypt , in the sight of pharaohs servants , and in the sight of the people . the son of syrach d calleth him , the beloved of god and man ; and sheweth the favour of god towards him , in making him glorious in the sight of kings e . and though he fled out of egypt , he was even then a benefactor , removing a people whom the egyptians dismissed with gifts ; and causing their plagues when himself disappeared to vanish away . and though he had no way proved a benefactor , his very power of sending plagues had been enough to deifie him with that people , who scarce distinguish'd as we do betwixt good and bad angels ; but looked on them that wrought temporal evil , as ministers of justice , and not as envious and malicious spirits . power to do hurt was reverenced by them , and they worshipped typhon as well as osiris . at the red-sea he astonished egypt with a miracle too great and difficult for the united power of all their gods , who could neither oppose it , nor do any thing equal to it . and though hereby he conveighed israel out of egypt , yet that deliverance of them could not but represent him , to all that heard the fame of it , as a kind and compassionate man , who saved his own nation from the tyranny of a prince , whose rage swelled more than that of the waves in which he perished . pharaoh certainly oppressed his own people as well as the israelites . for a proud and cruel prince is like a wolf , who has no kindness for any beast , though he be fiercest towards the sheep . and the fall of a tyrant makes an agreeable sound in the ears of all the slaves which he hath bored , whatsoever the hand be by which he is humbled . moses still grew in eminence by his conversation with god , by his conduct , by his delivery of the law , by the success of his arms ( which philo a esteemeth very extraordinary , whilst he warred without money the nerve of war ) , and last of all by the power of his miracles . he was so eminent a person , that r. josua the son of sohib b hath exalted him , not only above the patriarchs , but even above all creatures in heaven and earth , placing the very angels at the feet of this prophet . artapanus likewise relateth concerning him a , that he was in singular favour with the people , and obtained the name of hermes , and honour equal to their deities . from the same authority of artapanus , eusebius reporteth b , that in memory of the rod of moses , a rod was preserved with veneration in every egyptian temple , and particularly in the temple of isis. egypt then never enjoying so great a person as moses , ( if i except the messiah , carried thither in the days of his infancy , and there obscured ) ; it is not exceeding strange that a nation so apt to multiply her gods , should canonize him . neither is it on the other hand to be admired that in latter ages their reverence should be abated . in the days of diodorus siculus the egyptians reviled moses , so far were they from adoring him as a god . the cause is manifest . they were a new and mixed generation who either preferred the new serapis before the ancient apis ; or mistook both whilst they were blended in one . and in the time of diodorus siculus , ptolomaeus auletes had less regard for egypt than for rome , a place where the jews and their legislator were then sufficiently despised . if now so fair an account could not have been given concerning the occasions which rendred moses an idol in egypt ; yet that had not been a wa●…antable reason for the denial of the thing it self . for isis was worshipped amongst the suevi ; yet tacitus professeth that he knew not the way by which that foreign religion did travel thither . part . why moses might be honoured by the symbol of an ox. for the second question , why moses was honoured by the symbol of an ox ; i must not dogmatize in the resolution of it . idolatrous priests were extremely fanciful , both in the names and in the images of their gods. and who can at this distance of time , and after so many revolutions , search every fold in their imagination ? they described the junior bacchus with the face of a bull a , having respect to the strength of wine , of which he was said ( though falsly ) to be the inventer . and who knows whether the egyptians might not in such sort labour with their fancy , in bringing forth the image of their more ancient bacchus , whom we suspect to have been moses . to him learn'd men have ascribed the fable of the invention of wine . and they think it might have occasion given to it by the clusters of eschol , imperfectly understood . he that would indulge his fancy might still be fruitful in reasons : and he might say amongst other things , that the rays from the face of moses might move them to the choice of this symbol of the ox. for they resembled horns of strength , which were common ensigns of kingly power , both in egypt and phoenicia b . artapanus c ascribeth to moses the invention of tillage by the help of oxen. and thence may again be offered a conjecture about the cause of this symbol . and it is but a conjecture . for it is strange if from the time of cain , till the days of moses , so obvious and useful an invention should be unknown to the world . but if it was so long unknown , the discovery of it was of less advantage to egypt than to most countries of the world. for ( to use the words of monsieur vattier a , in the months of july and august the fields of egypt are changed into so many seas , and the cities and villages , into so many islands , by a fortunate inundation , which spares the inhabitants that trouble of tilling and manuring them , which is elsewhere necessary . for the egyptians have no more to do but to sow the seeds , when the waters are fallen away , and slightly to stir the slime which was spread on the earth , that they might not lye uncovered . and this they did of old , [ not by oxen , but ] as herodotus relates , by herds of swine driven after the sowers . and yet some heathen writers ascribe the invention of tillage to osiris b ; and they make isis c to be ceres ; and the ancient isis called ceres , and said by lactantius to be the mother of osiris , seemeth no other than the mother of moses . if any thing of this nature be applicable to him , i should think it rather some way of getting the corn out of the ear by the help of oxen , than the invention of tillage it self by them ; for to that use oxen served in his time , and his law forbiddeth the muzling of such serviceable creatures . it may be , not withstanding the aforesaid guesses , that the story of moses sacrificing oxen to his god , and of aaron making the golden calf ; and again of moses conducting the israelites towards palestine , the then granary of the world ; being received in egypt , or in some other place of commerce , in a confused and imperfect narration , after the manner of reports at distance of time and place , might give occasion to the worship of him in the form of a bull. but if i attribute this form to him , as the embleme of his diligence and victorious strength , ( for the horn , as was just now said , served for such an embleme ; ) i shall bring the nigher together , the reasons of his symbol , and of the name of it , about which latter i am to say something in answer to the third question above propounded . part . why moses might be called apis. something i would say concerning the name of apis as relating to moses ; but what i have to produce is very little , and very uncertain . and nothing is more uncertain than the reason of the first imposition of names . it is at the pleasure of men , and they are often humoursome ; and often a just occasion taken by them is worn out through time and new uses , which create new names . in an egyptian word it is no wonder if men be at a loss , seeing the language is perished . the learned gerard vossius a thinketh joseph to be apis , and deriveth the name from [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] a b in the hebrew language , which was possibly , but a distinct dialect from the ancient egyptian tongue , as the coptick , written from the left to the right hand , is but a dialect of the greek . now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not only signifie a father , author , or inventer ; but is also attributed to kings , princes , and lords , and is therefore a title not improper either for joseph or moses . my conjecture fetcheth the name of apis from [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] abir , which signifieth strong and valiant , and is used by synechdoche , for an ox , a creature of strength b : nay , it imports strength with such emphasis , that it is applied to god himself c . upon supposition that this were right , it ought to be added that the s in apis , as in mnevis , memphis , serapis , osiris , isis , is from the greek , and not the original egyptian . but enough of a word concerning the derivation of which we are so much in the dark , and likely so to continue . part . vvhen the worship of apis commenced . touching the subject of the fourth inquiry , the commencement of the worship of moses or apis , we must still be contented with conjecture . much of the fame of moses could not well arrive at the land of egypt till after his death , the very manner of which might contribute much to his deification . of that it appears they had some kind of notice , by the story of osiris a , whose body was in vain sought for , after his soul had left it . the relation of this , and of many other particulars in the wilderness , might come to egypt , after the possession of canaan , by the merchants at tyre or joppa , or some other such coasts as were frequented by egyptians . their priests having had before them , by some such way , the memorials of this great man , though in a rude and confused draught , might thenceforth advance him to the degree of an heavenly power , and on earth appoint a fit symbol by which he might be most solemnly reverenced . this symbol for many years was but one , the ox at memphis : but afterwards it was doubled , at memphis the ox apis was worshipped , the ox mnevis at heliopolis b . macrobius c speaks of a third ox worshipped at hermuntis in the temple of apollo , and called pacis . a name differing very little from apis , it being its plain anagram after the casting away of a single letter . but this pacis is mistaken for bacis , a name by which , as was said already , mnevis was called ; and it is no other than bacchus more gently pronounced . so that this third ox is the same in effect with the first and second . part . of the idols apis and mnevis , and the commencement of their worship . now in answer to the last query , i am to say something about the time of the division of this symbol of the ox. egypt , as a learned a man observeth , was of old divided into two parts , the upper and the lower , of which the first ( he saith ) had memphis , the other heliopolis for its chief city . [ though heliopolis be said by pliny b , to have been built by the arabians , and was therefore of no very ancient foundation , compared to memphis . and egypt was naturally divided into three parts , the upper , in which was thebes ; the middle , in which was memphis ; the lower in which was heliopolis , and now cairo , or masre , nigh the place where heliopolis once stood . ] before the invasion of the pastors there was but one king over all egypt , who would scarce have permitted so open a faction , and so plain an emulation of the glory of his imperial city . if now i had a mind to make the multiplication of this idol almost equal with that of the division of the kingdom ( a thing no way proved ) i would refer this to the times of amosis , called tethmosis corruptly by josephus , and supposed to be the contemporary of shamgar . amosis was that prince who first recovered heliopolis from the pastors , imagined to be a sort of arab-egyptians . he is reputed a theban , and from him manetho begins his order of the theban kings . he set himself industriously to improve heliopolis , and he might grace it in the quality of a rival of the ancient memphis , which he had not such personal reason to be fond of . he might on this occasion set up symbol after symbol ; for one part of his care , and a very great one , is said to be religion . he it was who purged heliopolis of the barbarous custom of sacrificing men ; in the room of which he substituted three images of wax , [ the symbols it may be of apis , in the three places of memphis , hermuntis , and heliopolis ; which rendred him properly a three-headed pluto . ] what i said of his purging heliopolis , is by porphyry a related from manetho , who , where he speaks of it , does mention calves in the plural ; for he says that men were offered to juno , and proved after the manner of the selected , pure , and marked calves of egypt . the truth is , there is little certainty in the story of amosis , and least of all in the time of it . and i might say the like of that of the pastors . and for the bulls at memphis and heliopolis , i cannot but think them much later than the times of jeroboam . if they had been extant long after ; herodotus who knew egypt so well , and spake so often of apis and of heliopolis , whose traditions he went to compare with those of memphis b , could as easily have mentioned mnevis too , as diodorus siculus , plutarch and strabo , in after-times . part . whence the original of apis might be obscured . if now at length a new question should be started , and i should be askt by any curious man , how this discovery of apis as moses has not been made before ? how it should come to pass that a symbol so known in egypt , should at length every-where be mistaken ? i would answer him thus : the priests of egypt were very reserv'd in the grounds of their theology ; and they had great opportunity of concealing their mysteries , whilst the priesthood belonged only to some certain families . hence herodotus a is so sparing in his relation of the state of religion after inquiry made by him both at memphis and heliopolis . and we learn from strabo how very shie the egyptians were of communicating their arts , much more of their religion . and he telleth us b that of the thirteen years which plato and eudoxus spent at heliopolis , much time was consumed , not so much in learning astronomy , as in prevailing with the priests to teach them something of their mysteries . also they mixed the names and rites of their deities ; and when the religion of greece came in with its arms they quite confounded them . such confusion in part happened before , for cambyses made alteration in their rites . and time hath been so injurious to them , through the invasion of arabians , persians and others ; through the burning of the ptolomean library , and other such accidents , that the very names of their princes , as well as their gods , are either perfectly forgotten , or very imperfectly and indistinctly remembred . their grand tyrant is to few known by his name , but called pharaoh , a title of regal power common with him , to the rest of the egyptian princes . of them who speak of his name , some call him chenephren , and others , chencres , chencheres , or cenchres ; others arenasis c ; others , bocchoris ; others , achernes ; others , petisonius ; others , tuthmosis , philastrius thammuz d . but of this argument enough , and too much it may be for the men of this age ; in some of which the love of ease , in others the pursuit of the appearances of nature , hath prevented the cultivation of philology ; which howsoever it be now the most neglected , is not the most barren and fruitless part of the field of learning . if any learned philologer shall think all this a device of fancy , he may please still to abound in his own sense . there is not a more unjust tyranny than the imposition of notions upon a free judgment . and for this notion of apis as the same with moses , i propose it only as my present conjecture , and not in the quality of my fixed perswasion . i will not contend about it , or immodestly contest it with any learned opponent . i shall rather follow the advice of the arabians in that proverb of theirs a , which forbids me to shoot my soft quills at a statue of iron . chap. vii . of the idolatry of the mahometans . mahomet was descended of the koreischites , a tribe of the arabians . the arabians were great idolaters b , and it does not appear that he embraced any other religion for some years , than that to which his education led him . with the arabians then he worshipped statues and daemons . the statues of the arabians are those three mentioned in the alchoran , allath , alozza , and menath c , idols of stone . what the two latter were , is not so well understood ; but most agree that by the former , or allath , was meant a deess like venus , or urania d . she had also among them the name of cabar , or cubar e . herodotus remembreth this arabian urania by the name of alilat , in his thalia f , though in his clio g he had called her alitta . neither did they worship statues alone , but they worshipped daemons too , of which such statues were generally the symbols . there is mention in the alchoran , in suratâ noachi , of vodda , seraha , jaguth , jauk , neser . beidavi a tell us , that these were the names of good men who lived betwixt adam and noah ; that after death images were made of them , that from them a benediction might be obtained ; that in process of time they began to be worshipped . that vodda was represented in the figure of a man ; seraha of a woman ; jaguth of a lion ; jauk of a horse ; neser of an eagle ; and that this kind of idolatry was translated to the arabians . other authors make mention of their worship of bacchus . hesychius calleth him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , tertullian , b diasares , or disares , as it is read in the late edition of paris . that name may be but the corruption of osiris , though it is thought to be taken from a mountainous place in arabia , called dusares , and mentioned by stephanus , de urbibus . the arabians also worshipped angels as well as heroes , calling them proverbially , the daughters of god. the alchoran chargeth them with this idolatry , in suratâ de bestiis , saying , they joined genii ( that is angels ) as companions to god. mahomet growing weary of this false worship , about the fortieth year of his age , and perhaps of all real religion , invented a new one of his own , which hath grown exceeding rankly since the first planting of it , as is the manner of many deadly and poysonous weeds . in this new religion of his he applaudeth himself as the restorer of the worship of one god , and declameth vehemently against idols . and no wonder , for he took to him a nestorian monk as his assistant , and he was himself the son of a jewess , to whose religion he might have some respect , by reason of that relation , though his mother died too soon to instil her principles into him , this impostor in the alchoran calleth the gentiles associators , [ or such as join others with god as sharers and fellows in his government ] , because they worship angels and men , in the place of gods. he giveth the like name to the jews , because of their high veneration for ezra , whom in his uncharitable opinion they had set up as the fellow of the deity . he also calleth the christians associators , by reason of the trinity which they worship : his blasphemous pride dethroning christ , and setting up himself as a greater prophet . he perpetually inculcated the worship of one god ; and this is one of the forty conditions on which he promised paradise to his disciples . if they bear witness , that there is no god but the one supreme god , and that he is his apostle a . his ministers when they call the people to prayers , cry alla , achbar alla ; that is , god , the highest god ; not alla oua kubar alla , god and venus their deity , as some have imagined b ; as if they had worshipped their gentile allath , cabar or cubar , after they had become the disciples of mahomet . elmacinus c summing up the precepts of mahomet , beginneth in this manner : mahomet in the forty-fourth year of his age published his call , [ his pretended commission from god ] ; for before that time he had secretly invited the people to his religion . in the publication of it , first , he taught them to believe in god alone . secondly , to worship and adore him . thirdly , he destroyed the worship of idols . in the forty-first surata of the alchoran , he condemneth the worship of angels . and this worship ( saith beidari d ) he abolished first at mecca . for images he was so severe against the worship of them , that he forbad all statues and pictures ; a law by which the grand signior loseth much glory and ornament in his empire . he brake in pieces e with his own hands a wooden dove found in caaba ; he sent chaledus to destroy the idol alozza a chaledus pull'd down the house [ or temple ] , and burnt the image or tree with fire . thence a daemoness issued out with great exclamation , and he smote her with his sword ; which when he had reported to mahomet , he assured him that that daemoness was alozza , whose worship should thenceforth cease . notwithstanding all this , his disciples are accused of a double idolatry . first , they are accused as worshippers of their prophet in the quality of the highest lieutenant of god. and mahomet himself gave the occasion of this worship , by teaching them this creed , that there is one god , and mahomet his prophet : setting himself as it were at gods right hand . it is most notorious that they pray frequently to him ; and they pray not only to him to intercede for them with god , but to give them present assistance by virtue of the commission which he hath received from god. for this it seems is one of their forms in which they pray for the grand signior b : god make you victorious over your enemies , and may our good prophet pour down his blessing into your heart . and in this worship they offend two ways , for they give the honour to mahomet of a power which god hath not bestowed by commission upon him , and which he hath not in himself as he is a creature of his kind . and they give this honour not meerly to an hero , but to the wicked soul of a vile impostor . secondly , they are accused as worshippers of the tomb of their prophet . i have not read in any good author that they bow or kneel to it as to an object of worship . and yet i find it said of them by cornelius curtius , c , that they worship the urn of their prophet . he ( i confess ) is not a competent witness , for a little before having asserted a summus cultus , that is , sure , supreme worship , to be merited by the nails of the cross ; a ; he saith of the jews , that they in such manner venerated the rod of aaron , the two tables of stone , and the ark of the covenant . yet this , methinks , may be pronounced against them as a righteous sentence : that if they expect ( as they appear to do ) some extraordinary blessing at the tomb at mecha , by virtue of the commission of their prophet , and of the mahometan religion , they exercise a religious trust in that which is a lie ; and they are tempted , as often as the event prayed for succeeds their pilgrimage and devotion , to give thanks to an impostor , for whose sake god does not , will not hear them . and such trust and thanks are highly dishonourable to the true god , who dwells not in any shrine , and delights not in any false prophet . such idolatrous trust some of them seem to put in the magical coins or gems which are used by them . many of them are mentioned by hottinger , b , and amongst them one which contained the names of twenty surata's in circular form , and a prayer , of which the following words are a part . shew me — that which is hidden in thy bosom , oh thou who art indu'd with majesty and honour . i see nothing of moment to be further said by me in this argument ; and therefore i here conclude it . and happy were it for the world if the superstition of mahomet might have as speedy an end . the like may be said of that kind of idolatry which hath infected many who profess the true or christian religion : and that false worship is my next subject . chap. viii . of the idolatry with which some are charged , who profess and ●…all themselves christians . and first of the idolatry of the gnosticks and manichees . part . of the idolatry of the gnosticks . when christ was incarnate , he soon weakned the visible empire of the devil , removing his idols , and putting his oracles to silence . one of his great designs in coming in the flesh , was to perswade the world to leave idols , and the atheism of many gods , as maximus speaketh a . he manifested the one true god in trinity , declaring that there were three in heaven , and that they three were one. he revealed much of the nature of the daemons which had been worshipped in the world , and decried them as wicked and malicious spirits . god in him gave to the world the greatest help against the worship of daemons and idols ; as shall afterwards be shewed at large , if god permit . his apostles and followers spake and wrote with zeal against idols ; and god be thanked , not without admirable success . amongst them was st. john the beloved disciple . and he having shewn the son ( in one b of his epistles ) to be the true image of the father , and very god of very god , does thence proceed to exclude all other symbols in this dehortation , little children , keep your selves from idols . and with that as with advice of moment , and fit to be reserved for a word to take leave with , he closeth his epistle . idols also were with zeal declaimed against , after him by divers christians ; of whom some were converted jews , who had lived under an express law against images ; and others were converted gentiles , who bent themselves quite another way from their former rites . and these expressed their detestation of idols in such severe manner , that they looked upon statuaries and painters as men of unlawful callings . others there were christians by profession , who though they worshipped not ( unless by fear or stealth , as epiphanius a noteth ) , the same statues and deities with the gentiles ; yet did they set up afresh an idolatrous worship , which was in truth but disguised heathenism . such were the scholars of simon magus , menander , saturninus , basilides , carpocrates , or according to epiphanius , carpocras ; valentinus , cerdon , marcion , secundus , ptolomaeus , marcus , colorbasus , heracleon , lucian , apelles , and very many others , who from their arrogant boasting of a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or sublime and extraordinary sort of knowledg , obtained the name of gnosticks . these i will consider as worshippers , firft of daemons , and secondly , of images . the worship of daemons they learned from the cabala of thales , pythagoras , and plato . it was the dogma of menander , and after him of saturninus , that b this outward world was made by angels ; that is , that it was framed and composed by those encosmical gods formerly mentioned , and spoken of by sallust the platonist . alcinous a disciple of the same school , in his introduction to the philosophy of plato c , professeth the same doctrines . he teacheth it as a dogma of his master , that god did not properly make , but rather adorn and excite the soul of the world , awakening it as it were out of its profound inactivity : that thenceforth ( as an awakened man who stretcheth out his arms ) it extended it self far and near , and joined and conserved a the whole of nature . and to this eternal soul of the world , a principle which in some sort comprehended in it the inferior angels , the gnosticks perhaps alluded in their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or fulness of the godhead , to which st. paul opposeth the true principle , by which god made all things , his eternal co-essential son. beyond the daemons alcinous doth not extend the care of god , but setteth them as his sons b over other things . and he ascribeth the formation of animals , and even of man himself , to junior daemons c . basilides was an alexandrian where the pythagorean cabala had gotten deep footing ; and it appeareth by the errors of origen , that the very preaching of st. mark had not worn out the prints of it . some of them are easily discerned in the writings of that father , and especially in his book which hath the title of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . basilides enjoin'd silence to them to whom his mysteries were revealed d , both in imitation of the silence in the school of pythagoras , and as a means to avoid the trouble which might arise by the more open publication of them . carpocrates and valentinus , both of them were professed pythagorean platonists . valentinus placeth his bythus , or profundity , and siges , or silence , as the first conjugation of his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or fullness . and by this he might mean the soul of the world awakened out of that deep inactivity , which just now we heard of in the jargon of alcinous . marcion expresly maintained the two principles of pythagoras ; and he taught that they were distinct , and without beginning , and infinite e . these hereticks worshipped a deity under the mystical name of abraxas , [ or abrasax , according to the inscription a on some basilidian gems . ] this name , some think , they took up with respect to the imposition of that of abraham . by it they understood a supreme power , and seven subordinate angels , the presidents of the seven heavens , together with their three hundred and sixtyfive virtues , answering to the number of the days of the year ; and by basilides in epiphanius , set over so many members of the body of man. by the name as one word they understood their one deity , and under it the eighth sphere , which the platonists called the highest power , by which all things were circumscribed b . by the seven letters of that one word they understood the seven angels , and under them the seven orbs. and therefore gassendus ( if the printer hath not injured him ) committeth a mistake c in writing it abrsax , as sometimes he doth . he spoileth their mystery by the diminution of one letter . such injury the engravers have done them in their gems , unless they designed by false letters to render them still more mysterious d . by the numeral powers of their seven letters in greek ( they amounting to the sum of days ) , they understood the abovesaid virtues , members , and days of the year e . st. austin in his catalogue of heresies , seems in this matter to commit a mistake f , for he representeth basilides as one that held , heavens , and affirmed them to be the makers of this world. whereas basilides and saturninus ascribed such power to the several virtues of the seven angels g . st. hierom h judged that this abraxas was the sun , or the mithra of the persians , because its annual course doth make up the abovesaid number of days . but a good reason ought to weigh down his authority ; and there is a reason sufficient to perswade us that they meant some other supreme god. for in the seven spheres they included the sun as one of the planets , and therefore did not intend him as the deity that was above saturn himself , but their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or logos a , or artist of all , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 himself . for he in epiphanius b possesseth the place of the highest orb. and in many of the basilidian gems , particularly in that in the custody of baronius c , that name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is inscribed , though the omega be misrepresented in the form of a w. they who consider this systeme of their deities will be apt to think them those coelicolae which the emperours condemned ; their religion being a sort of astrological magick . now this their worship of the heavens or angels , came ( as i said ) from the schools of thales and plato ; together with some tinctures from the heathen poets , and particularly from hesiod in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but the systeme of it was much further enlarged , and varied also with mystical signs and interpretations . and they ran a kind of enthusiastick descant upon a more natural or geometrical ground . he that fixeth his attention on the platonick scheme of the world , observing the several proportions which plato fancied in the adjusting of its parts when it was first framed : he that reads in timaeus locrus d , of the hundred and fourteen thousand , six hundred ninety and five divisions of the soul of the world ; and in alcinous e of the octoedral , icosaedral , duodecaedral figures in the composing of the universe : he that readeth further in irenaeus f of the principle called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or the divine fulness , and of the quaternations , octonations , decads , dodecads , and numberless conjugations of the aeons of the gnosticks , who began their fancies very early , though the scheme of them was successively varied , as likewise the very wording of it , the simonians changing their masters 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into st. john's logos a , after his gospel became publick ; such a one will guess without the gift of prophesie , what doctrines did set their imaginations on work . he will not wonder that the disciples of simon magus worshipped in private the image of pythagoras b . they will not think it strange that the valentinians in irenaeus called their first tetrad , the pythagorick tetractys . celsus mistaketh these gnosticks for true christians , and compareth c their mystical scale of things with that of the mithriacs , or persian divines . origen d supposeth those whom he pointeth at to be the sect of the ophians , a kind of spawn of the gnosticks . and he mentioneth a diagram of theirs e which had fallen into his hands ; and in which they described the soul of the world penetrating all things , under the name of leviathan . if that diagram had been preserved , it might have been compared with other pythagorick and magick systemes ; and a torch might have been lighted from it , for further discoveries of that nature than can now be made . for the ophites they were manifest idolaters , worshipping a living serpent for christ f . and the gnosticks were no better whilst they worshipped their angels as rulers of the world. hence marcus the gnostick is reproached expresly in irenaeus g , after the mention of the aeons , as a maker of idols . neither is st. hierom of another mind ; for on the third chapter of amos thus he discourseth : every heretick feigneth what pleaseth himself , and then he worshippeth his own fiction . thus did marcion with his idle deity , valentinus with his thirty aeons , basilides with his god abraxas h . as these were the sink of hereticks , so were they the principal of idolaters , giving to the devil himself by way of honour , the title of cosmocrator i , or ruler of this world : as if he had been such by the commission of that demiourgus , whose creature ( they say ) he was , and not by the consent of wicked men . idolaters then they were in the first place , with respect to the daemons whom they worshipped . and in the second place i am inclined to think them such with respect to the images of their deitie and his daemons . some such things were the gems a of the basilidians , preserved till these late times . joseph scaliger had one of them in his possession b , and the excellent peireskius very many c . amulets they were d , and symbols too of their deities , whose names of abraxas , michael , gabriel , ouriel , raphael , ananael , prosoraiel , yabsoe e , ( names of their god , and their seven angels the presidents of their seven heavens ) were inscribed on them , together with the figures of men , beasts , fowls , plants , stars ; the schemes of which may be seen in pignorius f . abraxas is represented with humane body , with buckler and whi●… , or sword in hand , as ensigns of power ; and with serpents , as feet . of a like abuse of magical gems the jews and mahometans themselves have been guilty g . and what are such gems but idols , when there is an expectation from them of supernatural virtue , which god hath not communicated to them ? irenaeus reporteth of the gnosticks h , that they had pictures and images , and particularly one of jesus made by pilate ; also that they crown'd them and set them with the images of pythagoras , plato and aristotle , and other gentile philosophers , observing or worshipping them after the manner of the heathens . the like is said by epiphanius in his twenty-seventh heresie ; and by theodoret , in his first book of heretical fables , where he informeth us , that simon 's statue was like to that of jupiter's , and helen's like to that of minerva's ; and that they were worshipped with sacrifice and incense . the same is written by st. austin a , who further mentions b the idolatry of marcellina , one of that sect , who worshipped together with the images before remembred , the statue of homer . i will end this discourse of the idolatry of the gnosticks , with the following words of the very learned mr. thorndike c . for the idolatry of the gnosticks ( which i am confident is mentioned in divers texts of the new testament ) it may well be counted the idolatry of the pagans , though pretending to be christians . because they did not stick to exercise the same idolatry when occasion was offered ; though they had their own idolatries besides ; whether peculiar to their several religions , or as magicians . part . of the idolatry of the manichees . with the gnosticks i will join the manichees , both agreeing in obscene superstitions d , and in the worship of the principal evil daemon ; and both being branches from the same magical trunk of pythagorean philosophy . cubricus or manes took the occasion of his heresie from his marriage with the widow of terbinthus , who died in exercising his magical tricks . terbinthus , who also disguis'd himself in persia under the name of budda , deriv'd his folly from his master scythianus a saracen in egypt . scythianus was learned in the writings of the grecians , and wrote four books of pythagorean magick . and lucas holstenius rightly observeth e , that the twofold 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the pythagoreans which comprehendeth [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] , the contrary combinations of the principles of unity and division , was the root of the two contrary manichaean powers . these pythagoras learned from the egyptians , who besides a good principle own'd typhon ( called also seth , bebon , and smy ) a principle of evil and tyranny . for manes , he strain'd the conceit of the pythagorean soul of the world to such a degree of extravagance , that he plac'd a perceptive spirit , ( as epiphanius noteth ) in every creature . he would not so much as break his bread , or cut a pot-herb , though he had cruelty enough to eat them . for certainly if bread were still alive after grinding and baking , it remained so in the broken pieces of it . but how wild a flight does mans fancy take , when it moves it self only upon its own wings ! i do not recall any passage in history which sheweth concerning this monstrous heretick , that he either prayed or sacrificed to this principle of evil . if he did neither , he yet made an idol of it by exalting it in his mind , to that undue supremacy . and on the other hand , he turned the author of all good into another idol . for as we are instructed by theodoret in his first book of heretical fables , he confined that principle to three quarters of the world , bestowing the southern parts upon matter , the dark principle , or the devil . he likewise sacrilegiously robbed god of that part of his providence which dispenseth righteous judgments . further , as the same theodoret relateth , he sometimes called the sun and moon his deities . sometimes he called the sun , christ ; and prov'd it as enthusiasts prove their dreams , by the eclipse it suffered at his crucifixion . sometimes he maintained them to be two ships which conveyed the souls which depart hence , from matter to light. with reason then did st. austin a thus confess his manichaean impiety ; my vain fantasm and my error was [ then ] my god. but of the gnostick and manichaean extravagance enough . i i come in the next place to speak of people much more sober , and yet not without a mixture of madness . chap. ix . of the idolatry with which the arians and socinians are charged . part . the honour of god under christianity can be by none secured but by such who acknowledg the godhead of his son. the gentiles not understanding this truth , but looking upon christ as in the flesh , without any personal union of it to a subsistence in the godhead , reproached the christians for their worship of him . and they made this to be the cause why the heavenly powers were angry with them , ( as they judged ) and afflicted them with persecution ; because they put up daily prayers to one that had been a man , and one that died on a cross b ; though the objection held against their hercules , and many other of their deities , who once were men , and died in pain and shame c . what else was aesculapius whom their jove ( themselves confessing it ) smote with his thunder d ? had they known christ to have been a divine person incarnate , they would have worshipped him themselves , and own'd him as the only substitute whom the father could have so used without diminution of the divine honour . hence st. paul maketh the confessing of jesus to be the supreme lord , to whom all things in heaven and earth , and under the earth are to do obeisance , to be a duty that promoteth the glory of god the father a . this glory the arians and socinians are said to diminish ; and they are the persons whom i am next to consider . arius the lybian , a priest of alexandria is accused by the fathers , both as an heretick , and as an idolater ; and his idolatry is charged upon him as the just ●…onsequence of his heretical opinion . and irenaeus hath observed concerning most heresies b , that the maintainers of them do acknowledg one god , yet by their corrupt mind do so alter the notion of him , that they become ungrateful to him that made them , as did the gentiles by their idolatry . arius heated by the dispute betwixt bishop alexander and himself , maintained at length with obstinacy and uproar , that christ had a beginning of his existence : that there was a time when he was not , though he was before the world : that he was not ( what origen or maximus c called him ) the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] consubstantial word of the father : that he was therefore not the one deity , the god of israel , but a made or created god : and that the father , or true god , did by him , as by his instrument create all other things . servetus , if i well remember his opinions , was a man yet much more extravagant than arius , for he conceived christ to be a divine light d which god used as his instrument in making the world ; and his flesh to be made out of the very substance of god e . and by that which i have seen of his , i judg him fitter to have been chained up as a mad-man than burnt as an heretick . arius had his flaws too , but with much more consistence . he having thus degraded christ into the condition of a creature , was for that reason condemned as an heretick . and because he still worshipped christ with divine incommunicable honour , he was also accused of idolatry . amongst his accusers a athanasius is one of the principal , and he is frequent and earnest in his declamations against him . in his first oration against the arians b , there is a discourse which appertaineth to the present occasion ; and this is the meaning of it : the apostle rebuketh the gentiles for worshipping the creation c , saying , that they served the creature besides [ or , as the translator renders it d , before ] god e the creator . and these [ to wit , the arians ] affirming of the lord that he is a creature , and serving him [ or giving him f latria ] as a creature , how differ they from the gentiles ? how can it be , if so they think , that the accusation of st. paul before cited shall not also appertain unto them ? such again is his discourse in his fourth oration g , and this is the scope of it : if there be not such a logos [ or , co-essential word ] as we speak of ; if , from not being it came into being , and was made a creature ; it is either not true god ( seeing 'tis in the number of created beings ) ; or , if by the power of truth in scripture they are forced to confess it to be true god , then they acknowledg two deities , the one the creator , the other a creature : then serve they two masters , the one uncreated , the other created : then have they two creeds , one in which they profess to believe the true god , the other in which they own a deity made and formed by themselves , and called god. it further of necessity followeth , that whilst in this blind manner they worship the uncreated god , they contend against him that is created ; and that [ on the other hand ] whilst they turn to the creature , they forget the creator . for it is not possible , by reason of the different natures and powers of these two , to discern the one in the other . they therefore who are of this opinion , do plainly join [ or confound ] many gods together . for this is the wickedness of them who depart from one god. why then do not the arians whilst they are of the same mind , number themselves among the greeks [ or gentiles ] ? for they as well as these worship the creature above [ or besides ] god who created all things . but they in order to the circumventing of the simple , avoid the name of gentile a , yet are of the same mind with them . for that common sophism of theirs , we profess not two uncreated , is plainly a delusion of the vulgar . for whilst they say , they do not maintain two uncreated , they set up two deities : two of a different nature , one uncreated , and one created . now if the heathens worship one uncreated deity , and many created ones ; and these [ arians ] one uncreated , and one created ; neither is there in that respect any great difference betwixt them and the heathens ; whilst he that is thought by them to be created , is one of the multitude of the heathen-gods ; and the heathen-gods are of the same [ finite ] nature with that one of theirs , and in like manner creatures . the like argument is maintained by this father in that short oration against the arians , which we find about the beginning of his second volume b . but the transcription of every thing of this nature which occurreth in his works , would be a burthen both to the reader and my self ; and a burthen so much the heavier , because the same sense is repeated so very often , though in variety of phrase . the charge of idolatry has been likewise drawn up against the socinians , called the modern arians , the ariano-baptists ( a ) , and the arians of poland . both arians and socinians herein consent , that they deny the natural divinity of christ , though in other doctrines they differ very widely ; and very much in their explication of that opinion in which they principally agree . for arius maintained the praeexistence of the logos ( b ) before the foundation of the world ; whilst socinus dateth the very being of christ from the conception of the virgin. some arians maintained a likeness in the substance of christ to that of gods ; though others called him [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ] one of a different substance . sandius c thinketh that arius himself believed the son and spirit to be specifically 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the father . that is his mistake , and it is not the only one which he has committed . we read otherwise of him in socrates the historian . in him alexander d reporteth this to be the dogma of arius , that christ was not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . also that the son of god had liberty of sinning . this latter he might sometimes speak , when the heat of disputation inclined him to rave . but it was his fixed opinion , that the essence of god was perfectly invisible ; and that the essence of the son was visible , being created . [ though in that he erred too , no spirit being so , nor the essence of the grossest body ] ; and consequently that his essence was not of the same species with that of the father e . generally the arians held it to be an angelical , rather than a divine nature . but socinus doth degrade it further still , and will have christ be a mere man , or innocent prophet . and how wide soever the distance was betwixt alexander or athanasius , and the heretick arius ; yet of this i am confident that they would all have joined , had that new scheme of pretended christianity been then extant , in suppressing or burning the racovian catechism . arius had much the better creed , socinus somewhat the better temper , and the greater command over his passions . but both have much disturbed the christian church , and both have been accused of heresie , schism , and idolatry . that this last crime was charged on arius , hath been shewed already . and i will further shew that socinus also hath been accused of it . this being done , i will then consider of the justice of the charge , with respect both to arius and socinus . when i speak of the idolatry of the arians and socinians , i mean not the worship of statues , or of daemons ; unless the logos , as they have fashioned him , be to be reputed as one of them : for most true is that saying of st. austin a in his questions on joshuah : whosoever feigneth in his mind such a god as is not god , the same carrieth in his heart a strange and false god. and this i have called negative idolatry , in the definition of that false worship . the socinians are so far from the worship of hero's , their christ excepted , that they maintain the sleep of the soul ; and brenius some-where maketh its dormitory some particle of the blood. the author of the little book called disquisitio brevis b , proposeth the doctrine of the souls insensibility as a means of removing those of purgatory , and of the invocation of saints . and for the practice which conformeth it self to this latter doctrine , he calleth it a very wicked idolatry . in that crime if they offend , it is upon their account of the invocation of christ ; whilst from a god they have changed him into a saint of the highest order . and this is the particular wherein socinus is accused by franciscus davidis , who having swallow'd the first error , which rejecteth the essential divinity of christ , did in pursuance of it ( for one false way does mislead to many others ) deny the lawfulness of his worship . and though socinus hath against him very firmly proved the lawfulness of adoring christ , yet for his consequence [ that christ being but a creature by essence , is not to be worshipped as they pretend to adore him ] , he hath only evaded the force of it by the subtlety of his wit : a wit so able to turn it self into all shapes and figures a , that it could scarce be held fast by demonstration it self . part . of the idolatry of the arians . we see then that the arians both ancient and modern have been accused as idolaters . but because every man would be guilty if accusation were a crime ; it will in the next place be a piece of justice , to inquire into the grounds upon which the accusers usually proceed . and here i will first consider apart , the things with which they are severally charged ; and then those things together in which they are together blamed ; and declare the grounds and reasons on which they are in all these respects condemned . that which seemeth to me in this point criminal in the arians , and not in the socinians , is the worship of christ as creator of the world. they took those places of scripture which ascribe to the son of god the making of the universe , as they plainly sound ; and either wanted such confidence as the socinians , or rather such grammatical subtlety , by which they wrested them to a very different sense . the places of scripture which i mean , are such as these : all things were made b by [ the word ] , and without him was not any thing made that was made . christ is the image of the invisible god c , the first-born of every creature . for in [ or by ] him were all things created that are in heaven , and that are in earth , visible and invisible ; whether they be thrones or dominions , or principalities , or powers . all things were created by him , and for him . and he is before all things , and by him all things consist . these words , together with all other places of a like nature , the socinians do industriously and violently draw to a scope , at which they were never aimed a . it is true that the aim of st. paul in the place now cited , has not been so particularly and critically discerned by some of the most catholick commentators . but in general all of them well understood that these expressions , [ the worlds ; things visible and invisible ; all things that were made ; things in heaven , and things on earth ] , were such as no jews or christians commonly used , in speaking of the founding the christian church , and making the new world of the gospel . and where it is said , that every house is built by some man , but he that built all things is god b ; there to interpret it after this fashion , of gods revealing the christian oeconomy , as they may if they please ; ( for the same key may serve for all such places ) , is an absurd comment which hath no need of confutation . but with them , who have denied first the satisfaction of christ , and for the sake of that error , his divinity ; and then for the sake of that second error , his praeexistence and creative power ; the beginning of the logos is at the beginning of the gospel ; and the creation of all things is the new creation in evangelical truth and righteousness ; how harshly soever these interpretations sound to the ears of the judicious . why go they not on , and say , that god is called the creator of israel , and therefore may mean the first words of the book of genesis of that people , and not of the material world ? why do not they comment in this manner on the words in the acts , god that made the world a , and all things therein , [ that is , the gospel with all its appurtenancies ] , seeing that he is lord of heaven and earth , [ that is , of the new evangelical heaven and earth , wherein dwelleth righteousness ] , dwelleth not in temples made with hands . they err who think the apostle in that place to the colossians , did in allegorical manner allude to moses . no , he plainly opposeth himself to gnosticism , which was then on foot , though put afterwards into many new dresses ; and to the simonian scheme of the world , more like to that of pythagoras than that of moses ; though moses has been thought to platonize , as some speak ; which to me does not so plainly appear from the words he has left us . st. paul calleth christ , the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] image of god , and the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the ] first-born of every creature ; not thereby affirming , that christ was not very god but his first creature of a different substance ; but opposing him to [ the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] the images and the beginning of the platonick simonians b . he therefore seems to me to speak to this effect . you boast of i know not what first-borns and beginnings , which created other things . behold here the true first-born and beginning , who indeed made the world. [ thus ignatius c opposeth to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the gnosticks , the son of god ; affirming that there was one god of the old and new testament , and one mediator betwixt god and men , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the creating and governing of all things : and those who believe otherwise , he in the following page condemneth as the disciples of simon magus . ] the thrones , dominions , principalities , powers , mentioned in the next verse , are in like manner opposed to the principles or angels , which those hereticks fancied to be subordinate creators and governours of the visible world. epiphanius in his twenty-third heresie of the saturnilians a , declareth their odd opinion concerning one unknown father , and the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ] the virtues , principalities and powers , made by him ; and of the inferior creatures made by them . and in his twenty-sixth heresie of the gnosticks , he setteth down the order of their [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] heavenly principalities : how little now do these names differ from the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] dominions ; the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] principalities ; the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] powers , of st. paul the apostle ? and that apostle doth no more assert in this place the creation of such orders , than he doth the making of the gnostick aeons in the first chapter to the hebrews , where he affirmeth of christ that he made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . in such places he said in effect that the logos was the true principle which they mistook in their notion , and miscalled by other names , though they were in a kind of pursuit of him , but in the dark , and in false ways : that it was he that made the world visible and intellectual , by what names soever they called it , or into what classes soever they had disposed it ; and that this was not the effect of any such powers as they dreamed of , they having no existence but in the shadows of their own imagination . in the following chapter b , he opposeth the principles of christian religion to the elements of their philosophy . and in the next verse c , he opposeth to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the simonians , the fulness of the deity which dwelt in christ. and after that d he twice mentioneth his headship over all [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] principalities and powers : and thence he most aptly proceedeth to the condemnation of the worship of angels e : for of them the gnosticks made egregious idols . i am the more confirmed in this discourse upon st. paul's words by those of irenaeus : god ( said he in his refutation a of the gnostick heresie ) did make all things , both visible and invisible , sensible and intelligible , — not by angels , or other virtues , — but by his word and spirit . — this god is neither beginning , nor virtue , nor fulness : that is ( as i suppose it was read in the greek copy , which the learned world much wanteth ) neither 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , no gnostick principle , but true and very god. neither am i concerned at the objection of those who ascribe these terms to valentinus ; for 't is plain he was not b the inventer . it appeareth by the studiousness of socinus , in order to the eluding of the force of such places , that he believed an acknowledgment of christ as creator , was in effect a confession of his godhead . this then being by arius granted , and by socinus denied , that christ created the natural world ; it is that single point in which arius apart from socinus , is chargeable with idolatry . and certainly he is not accused upon slight and idle suspicion , if the charge be drawn up against him , either from scripture or reason . in the scripture god himself doth prove himself to the world , to be the true one god , by his making of all things . in what other sense will any man , whose prejudice does not bend him a contrary way , interpret the following places ? who hath measured out c the waters in the hollow of his hand ? and meted out the heavens with a span ; and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure ; and weighed the mountains in scales , and the hills in a ballance ? who hath directed the spirit of the lord , or being his counseller hath taught him ? thus saith d the god , the lord , he that created the heavens , and stretched them out ; he that spread forth the earth , and that which cometh out of it . he that giveth breath unto the people upon it , and spirit to them that walk therein . i am the lord , that is my name , and my glory i will not give to another . — thus saith a the lord that created thee , o jacob , and formed thee , o israel ! fear not . — before me there was no god formed , neither shall there be after me . the lord b is the true god , he is the living god , and an everlasting king , [ or , the king of eternity . ] — thus shall ye say unto them , [ the nations , ] the gods that have not made the heavens and the earth , even they shall perish from the earth , and from under these heavens . he hath made the earth by his power ; he hath established the world by his wisdom , and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion . thus speaketh the scripture : in the next place let it be considered whether reason can dissent from it . what notion will reason give us of the true god , if it supposeth such wisdom and power in a creature as can make the world ? for does not reason thence collect her idea of god , conceiving of him as of the mighty and wise framer of the universe ? thus the very americans themselves , i mean the peruvians , did call their supreme god by the name of pachaia chacic c which signifies as they tell us , the creator of heaven and earth . in this then arius is particularly to be condemned , in that he supposeth the creator a creature , and yet professeth to worship him under the notion of the maker of all things . it is true , that arius gave not to christ the very same honour he did to the father . and his disciples in their doxologies , were wont in cunning manner , to give glory to the father by the son a . and such a form eusebius himself used b ; and we find it at the end of one of his books against sabellius : glory be to the one unbegotten god , by the one only begotten god the son of god , in one holy spirit , both now and always , and through all ages of ages , amen . neither do the arians give any glory to christ , but that which they pretend to think enjoined by god the father . but if christ had been a creature , the creator would not by any stamp of his authority have raised him to the value of a natural god ; and such a god they honour , whatsoever the terms be with which they darken their sense ; for he is honoured by them as creator and governour , and dispenser of grace . part . of the idolatry of the socinians . the point in which socinus offendeth by himself , is the worship he giveth christ whilst he maketh him but a man ; and such a man as is but a machine of animated and thinking matter : for though he declineth not the word , soul or spirit , i cannot find at the bottom of his hypothesis , any distinct substance of a soul in christ. if that principle had been believed by him , why doth he suppose the lord jesus bereaved of all perception as long as his body remained lifeless in the grave c ? why do his followers maintain that the dead do no otherwise live to god than as there is in him a firm purpose of their resurrection d ? for so the vindicator of the confession of the churches of poland , written by shlichtingius , is pleased to discourse : we believe ( said he ) not only that the soul of christ supervived his body , but also that the souls of other men do the like . but if cichovius thinketh that the dead do otherwise live to god , than as it is always in the hand and power of god to raise them up , and restore them to life ; let him go and confute christ , where he saith , i am the god of abraham , isaac , and jacob : god is not the god of the dead , but of the living . now reason ( the great diana of socinus , though he often took a cloud of fancy for his goddess ) can't but judg it a disparagement to the idea of a god , to suppose such divinity as can govern the world , and hear and act in all places at once , ( as christ is by socinus confessed to do ) ; in a portion of living matter , not six-foot square , reserved in the heavens ; and perceiving by the help of motion on its organs . arius advanced the idea of divinity to a much higher and more becoming pitch ; for he , overcome with the plain evidence of scripture , maintained the praeexistence of the logos , and supposed him to be a distinct substance from matter . and he might consequently affirm with consistence to his principles , that christ could know without the mere help of motion , and be spread in his substance to an amplitude equal with that of the material world. for the material world is but a creature , one body of many creatures ; and it implieth no contradiction to say of god , that he can make one creature as big as the collection of all the rest . but notwithstanding such amplitude , there would still be wanting infinite wisdom . for in the idea of god we have no other notion of it than as of such a wisdom as sufficeth to frame the world , and to govern it after it hath been framed . now this latter point is that in which both arius and socinus are together condemned , whilst both worship christ as one who under god disposeth and governeth all things . it is true , that he is such : but such he had not been if he had not been consubstantial with the father . in that sense he is the father's wisdom : and whilst arius and socinus adore him as gods wisdom , yet not as god ; they ascribe to the creature , the attribute by which the creator is known . for the scriptures , they in opposition to all other gods , do as well ascribe the government , as the creation of the world , to that one god of israel . hear them speaking in this matter , with so loud and plain a voice , that he who is dull of hearing cannot mistake them , unless he by obstinacy make himself deafer still , and will not distinctly hear them . in them we find this prayer made by the pious king hezekiah , when he was distressed by sennacherib a . o lord of hosts , god of israel , that dwellest between the cherubims ! thou art the god , even thou alone of all the kingdoms of the earth . thou hast made heaven and earth . incline thine ear , o lord , and hear , open thine eyes , o lord , and see ; and hear all the words of sennacherib who hath sent to reproach the living god. of a truth , lord , the kings of assyria have laid wast all the nations and their countries , and have cast their gods into the fire ; for they were no gods but the work of mens hands , wood and stone ; therefore they have destroyed them . now therefore , o lord our god , save us from his hand , that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the lord , even thou only . other places there are to the same purpose b , and amongst them these : let them [ the nations or gentiles ] give glory unto the lord c , and declare his praise in the islands . the lord shall go forth as a mighty man ; — he shall prevail against his enemies . i have declared d and i have saved , and i have shewed , when there was no strange god among you : therefore ye are my witnesses , saith the lord , that i am god. yea , before the day i was he , — i will work , and who shall let it ? thus saith the lord a the redeemer , — i am the lord your holy one , the creato●… of israel , your king. [ he that raiseth you out of mean estate , and ruleth over you . ] thus saith the lord who maketh a way in the sea , and a path in the mighty waters . who would not fear thee , o king of nations b ! the stock is a doctrine of vanities ; but the lord is the true god , he is the living god , and an everlasting king. ask ye of the lord rain c , in the time of the latter rain ; so the lord shall make bright clouds , and give them showers of rain , to every one grass in the field . for the idols have spoken vanity . — the eyes of the lord d run to and fro through the whole earth . [ the king of chaldea ] e shall gather the captivity as the sand , and shall scoff at kings . — then shall his mind change , and he shall pass over , and offend imputing this his power unto his god . art thou not he from everlasting , o lord my god , mine holy one ? we shall not die : o lord , thou hast ordained them [ the powers of chaldea ] for judgment ; and , o mighty god! thou hast established them for correction . who hath ( f ) directed the spirit of the lord , or being his counsellor hath taught him ? with whom took he counsel ? and who instructed him , and taught him in the path of judgment ? — behold the nations are as a drop of a bucket . see here the spirit of god asserting the divinity of the one god of israel , against idols , by displaying his wisdom and power in the natural and political government of the world. but lest the evidence of these places should be weakened by any , as scriptures of the old testament , relating to times before our lord was actually made by the eternal father , the king of the world ; i will add a few more which may tend to the preventing of such an evasion . isaiah g prophesying of the baptist , and of the blessed times of the gospel , introduceth that voice thus crying out to jerusalem and judah : behold your god. behold the lord god will come with strong hand , and his arm shall rule for him . — he shall feed his flock like a shepherd . in the same isaiah ( for i scarce seek further than that evangelical prophet ) the god of israel repeateth this profession a : before me there was no god framed , neither shall there be after me . thus b saith the lord the king of israel , and his redeemer the lord of hosts , i am the first , and i am the last , and besides me there is no god. and yet of the logos , the socinians will profess as did nathaniel , thou art the son of god , thou art the king of israel ; and as doth the book of the revelation , that he is , alpha and omega , the first and the last . the god of israel had said also in the foregoing chapter , i , even i , am the lord , and besides me there is no saviour . — is there a god besides me ? yea , there is no god. i know not any . c yet , of the logos , socinians and arians make confession in the words of st. john , saying , that he was in the beginning with god the father . the design of all these places ought not in reason to be baffled , by saying with confidence d these two things : first , that the power which christ had was given him by god , and in order to his glory . secondly , that it is not unlawful , but our duty , to worship a creature by gods command , though without his permission it be idolatry . if christ had not been more than a creature , god would not have enjoined us so high a worship of him : neither would it have been consistent with his incommunicable omnipotence and wisdom to have given him all power in heaven and in earth . this ( as e athanasius speaketh ) were to turn his humane nature into a second almighty . the logos was so before all worlds , and ceased not to be so by assuming the humane nature into unity of subsistence . to say then that christ is a creature , yet made such a god who can hear all prayers , supply all wants , give all graces needful to his body the church , know all the secrets of all thoughts not directed to him , govern and judg with wisdom all the world , and to worship him under this divine notion ; what is it else than the paying an homage to a presumed creature , which is due only to the one very god ? for what apprehensions greater than these do we entertain concerning the true god , when we call upon him , confide in him , or revere him ? he then that meeteth such an inscription in racovia as he may find often a in misna , in this manner , d. o. s. and at length , deo omnipotenti sacrum , and meant of christ , to whom , in the verses set b underneath , the application is particularly made ; how must he expound it ? he must either interpret it of christ transubstantiated as 't were by their fancy into the father , or worshipped like neptune c in the d. m. at rome , in the quality of the true god , whilst he is confessed to be but a creature . for they will own but one god in nature and person , and yet will give to christ , not acknowledged as a coeternal subsistence , that which belongeth in eminent manner to his idea . his idea sure it is ; for that being appeareth to our mind as the best and greatest , which with such mighty goodness , power and wisdom , governs the insensible , sensible , rational , and christian world. i end this chapter with the sense of st. cyprian's words in his conclusion of the book de bono patientiae d : [ jesus ] is he who was silent in his sufferings , but will not be so afterwards when he executeth vengeance . this is our god ; not the god of all , but the god of the faithful , and of them who believe . — him , most dear brethren , let us expect as our judg and avenger . — god the father commanded this his son to be adored . and saint paul the apostle , mindful of his command , saith , that god hath exalted him , and given him a name above every name ; that at the name of jesus every knee should bow ; of things coelestial , terrestrial and infernal . and in the revelation , the angel forbiddeth john who was willing to worship him a , and saith , see thou do it not , for i am thy fellow-servant and of thy brethren . adore the lord jesus b . chap. x. of the idolatry with which the roman-catholicks are charged ; and how far they are justly , or unjustly accused . part . of the charge which is drawn up against them . by roman-catholicks , i mean those who pretending to own the doctrine of the universal church , and to submit to the discipline of it , as it is derived from the supposed fountain and head of it , the bishop of rome , do confess the faith of the council of trent . these also are guilty of worshipping idols , if the multitude of accusers createth guilt ; to omit as yet the arguments which move so many to that accusation . mr. thorndike supposeth them accused , when he affirmeth a , that they who separate from them as idolaters , are thereby schismaticks before god. as also when he saith b , they who charge the papists to be idolaters , — let them not lead the people by the nose , to believe that they can prove their supposition when they cannot . accused then they are ; and their accusers are neither few , nor of inconsiderable quality . i mean not here the mahometans and jews so much as the christians , who are of this judgment . the mahometans are the professed enemies of visible idols ; and in some places where they have unhappily succeeded in their invasions of christendom , they have been as fierce and zealous iconoclasts a as any to whom that name has been given . and of such zeal the jews would give external signs , if they had equal power . of both the learned grotius saith b , that they are much diverted from christianity by the images which they see cast in the way before them . the christians of the greek church use painted tables . but many of them [ if many there be of the same faith with their late patriarch of alexandria , s. cyril ] do think of the images of roman-catholicks , as of so many idols . that patriarch being askt what the grecians thought of images , returned this answer , not as his private opinion , but as the faith of the oriental church c , the members of which he personateth in that confession . we do not reprobate d the noble art of painting . so far are we from that [ extreme ] that we allow to such as please , the pictures of jesus and his saints . but for the adoration and worship of them , we detest it , as contrary to the scripture , and lest , instead of god , we should ignorantly worship colour , artifice , creatures . he indeed useth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which i rend'red adoration ; but he joineth it with the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which i translate worship ; and which st. paul useth in setting forth the idolatrous adoration of angels by the gnosticks e . and it is certain by his scope , that he meaneth the worship of rome modern ; and he elsewhere f , calleth it superstitious and that which smelleth rank of idolatry . touching those christians who are known by the title of the reformed , they judg it one great part of their reformation , that they have purged their churches of romish idols . the confession of helvetia g rejecteth as idolatrous , not only the idols of the heathens , but the images also of those who have taken upon them the christian name . the general confession of scotland a , to which the royal family , and many others of condition , subscribed , calleth transubstantiation a blasphemous opinion ; meaning thereby that blasphemy , which saith , a creature is god , and supposing that the object , under the shews of bread , is bread , though set apart to a religious use . the confession called the consent of poland b , having declamed against many of the usages of rome , and imputed much of the turks success in christendom to gods displeasure at them ; proceedeth to an address to christ , by a prayer , in which he is beseeehed to blot out idols , errors , and abominations . the confession of strasburg c rejecteth that worship of images which is practised in the roman church , as contrary to the scripture , and to the sense of the ancient church ; citing to this purpose the epistle of epiphanius , and its translation by st. hierom , as also the authorities of lactantius and athanasius . the augustan confession d condemneth the invocation of saints as a custom which transferreth to men the honour which is due to god only ; and which ascribeth omnipotence to the dead , by attributing to them the knowledg of the heart . the confession of saxony e saith , of the invocation of saints , both that it leadeth from god , and that it ascribeth omnipotence to the creature . and it seteth , upon the worship both of saints and images , the reproachful brand of an heathenish corruption . the confession of wirtemburgh f , though being mindful of the difficulties of its own absurd consubstantiation , it condemneth not the worship of christ under the shews of bread in the church of rome as an idolatrous practice ; though it granteth that it is possible with god to change the elements into the body and blood of christ ; yet it doth not express such favour towards their worship of saints . it condemneth the invocation of them according to the roman litanies , as a practice which ascribeth to them such ubiquity and such knowledg of the heart as belongeth to god only . the confession of bohemia a allowing some publick festivals in memory of the virgin and other saints , does yet suppose that worship of them which is used in the church of rome to be an honour and adoration due to god. the confession of basil b speaking of such precepts and permissions under the papacy as it esteemeth unlawful ; doth number the invocation of saints , and veneration of images amongst those things which by virtue of the second commandment are prohibited by god. in the french synods of the reformed , there is frequent mention of romish idolatry c . for the church of england , she designed in her articles briefness , and avoidance of disputes ; and having professed the faith of one god , and one lord jesus christ , she doth not insist particularly on the invocation of saints , or the worship of images . yet in her twenty-second article concerning purgatory , she saith of that and of the romish doctrine , touching pardons , worship and adoration , as well of images as of relicks , and also of invocation of saints , that it is a fond thing , vainly invented , and grounded upon no warranty of scripture , but rather repugnant to the word of god. now what can we judg of that worship which hath for its object something else besides god , and is contrary to the scripture ? we cannot but think it not a mere impertinence , but a wicked act ; an act which by contradicting his authority , diminisheth his honour : and being an act of worship , nothing less than one degree of idolatry . again , in its twenty-eighth article it teacheth concerning the consecrated elements , that they were not by christs institution or ordinance , reserved , carried about , lifted up and worshipped . by which words it noteth the adoration of the host in the church of rome , not as an innocent circumstance added by the discretion of that church , but as an unlawful worship ; though it doth not expresly brand it with the name of idolatry . in the rubrick after the communion , the adoration of the consecrated elements is upon this reason forbidden , because the sacramental bread and wine remain still in their very natural substances . and it is there added , that they so remaining , the adoration of them would be idolatry to be abhorred by all faithful christians . this rubrick doth in effect charge the church of rome with gross idolatry ; for it supposeth the object which they materially worship , to be in its natural substance still a creature , and a creature disjoined from personal union with christ , and not ( according to the words of their st. thomas a inserted into their missal ) a deity latent under the accidents of bread and wine . and it concludeth that the worship of such a substance is such idolatry as christian religion abhorreth . it doth not indeed affirm in terms , that the worship of such a substance by a romanist who verily thinks it to be not bread , but a divine body , is idolatry ; but it saith that , whence such a conclusion may be inferred . it saith that the bread is still bread in its substance , and if it be really such whilst it is worshipped , the mistake of the worshipper cannot alter the nature of the thing , though according to the degrees of unavoidableness in the causes of his ignorance , it may extenuate the crime . upon supposition that still 't is very bread in its substance , costerus , and it may be bellarmine himself , would have condemned the latria of it as the idolatrous worship of a creature , even in paul the simple , of whom stories say that he was extreamly devout ; but withal , that he knew not which were first , the apostles or the prophets . and here it ought to be well noted , that there is a wide distance betwixt this saying , that idolatry is a damnable sin ; and this assertion , that idolatry in any degree of it , and in a person under any kind of circumstances , actually damneth . i would here also commend it to the observation of the reader , that the church of england speaketh this of the worship of the corporal substance of the elements present in the eucharist after consecration ; and not of the real and essential presence of christ. and for this reason it left out the terms of real and essential , used in the book of king edward the sixth a , as subject to misconstruction . real it is , if it be present in its real effects , and they are the essence of it so far as a communicant doth receive it : for he receiveth it not so much in the nature of a thing , as in the nature of a priviledg b . but i comprehend not the whole of this mystery ; and therefore i leave it to the explication of others who have better skill in untying of knots . in the commination used by the church of england , 'till god be pleased to restore the discipline of penance , a curse is denounced against all those who make any carved or molten image to worship it . and it is the curse which is in the first place denounced on ash-wednesday . it is true that it is taken out of the book of deuteronomy a , and it is the sense of a verse in that book used at large in the former common-prayer-book , in these words , cursed is the man that maketh any carved or molten image , an abomination to the lord , the work of the hands of the craftsman : and putteth it in a secret place , [ to worship it . ] that is , though it be done without scandal to men , and in such private manner as to avoid the punishment which the law inflicteth on known and publick offenders . but the church of england repeating this law in its commination , doth thereby own it to be still of validity , and to oblige christian men . the homilies which are an appendage to our church , do expresly arraign the roman-catholicks as idolaters in the learned discourses of the peril of idolatry . also english princes and bishops have declared themselves to be of the same perswasion . king edward the sixth in his injunctions b , reckoneth pictures and paintings in the churches of england [ as adorned by the romanists ] amongst the monuments of idolatry . of the injunctions of queen elizabeth this is the thirty-fifth c , that no persons keep in their houses any abused images , tables , pictures , paintings , or other monuments of feigned miracles , pilgrimages , idolatry and superstition . of the articles of inquiry in the first year of her reign d , this is one , and pertinent to our present discourse . whether you know any that keep in their houses any undefaced images , tables , pictures , paintings , or other monuments of feigned and false miracles , pilgrimages , idolatry and superstition , and do adore them ; especially such as have been set up in churches , chappels , and oratories . this likewise is one of the articles of visitation set forth by cranmer arch-bishop of canterbury , in the second year of edward the sixth : whether parsons , &c. have not removed and taken away and utterly extincted and destroyed in their churches , chappels , and houses , all images , all shrines , — pictures , paintings , and all other monuments of — idolatry and superstition — . bishop jewel's opinion is so well known , that his words may be spared : and that confession of faith which he penned , and which maketh a part of his apology for the church of england [ and in which he calleth a the invocation of saints in the church of rome , a practice vile , and plainly heathenish ] is put into the collection of the confessions of the reformed , under the title of the english confession b . but the churches confession it cannot be called with respect to her authority , which did not frame it ; whatsoever it be in its substance , and in its conformity to her articles . for others of the church of england , a very learned person , the hannibal and terrour of modern rome c hath named enough . t. g. hath indeed excepted against many of the jury : but whether he hath not illegally challenged so many of them , remaineth a question ; or rather it is with the judicious out of dispute . the sentences of private men spoken on this occasion , both here and beyond the seas , either broadly d , or indirectly , are scarce to be numbered . amongst them beyond the seas i will name only danaeus and hottinger . daneus in his appendix to the catalogue of heresies written by st. austin , recounteth the hereticks who had offended , as he thought , in particular manner against the several precepts of the decalogue . and under the second commandment he placeth the simonians , the armenians , the papists , and some others , as notorious violaters of it . hottinger a distributeth the false worship of the papists into six kinds of idolatry , under the greek names of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or bread-worship ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or marian-worship , to wit , that of the blessed virgin ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or saint-worship ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or angel-worship ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or relick-worship ; and lastly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or the worship of images . part . of the mitigation of the charge of idolatry against the papists . the learned hugo grotius , especially in his annotations on the consultation of cassander , in his animadversions on the animadversions of rivet , and in his votum pro pace ; the learned mr. thorndike in his epilogue , and in his just weights and measures ; curcellaeus in his epistle to adrian patius b : these three , together with some others have pronounced a milder sentence in this cause , though they approved not of such invocation of saints , and worship of images , as is practised in the church of rome . but it is not my design to decide the controversie by the greater number of modern authorities , but rather to look into the merits of the cause . and this i purpose to do so far only , as angels , or rather saints and images , are the objects of this disquisition . of relicks , and the sacramental bread , i forbear to say more than that little which follows . for the first , that which will be said concerning the worship of images will help us sufficiently in judging of the worship of relicks . if they be made objects of religious adoration ; if they be honoured as pledges of divine protection ; if they be trusted in as shrines of divine virtue ; at adventure , and in all ages ; they become as the manna which was laid up for any other than the sabbath-day , useless to the preservers , offensive to god , and unsavory to men of sagacious noses . concerning that substance which after sacramental consecration , appeareth as bread , that excellent church , in whose safe communion i have always lived , doth still call it bread. for the priest , after having consecrated the elements , and received the communion himself in both kinds , is required by the rubrick of that office , to administer to others , and when he delivereth the bread to any one , to use this form , the body of our lord jesus christ which was given for thee , preserve thy body and soul to everlasting life . now a discourse concerning the worship of that substance which appeareth as bread , will in effect be a discourse about the corporal presence of christ under the shews of that creature , and run the disputant into another question which hath been industriously sifted by thousands . neither are the printed volumes touching this subject few or small . there is a great heap of them written by the learned messieurs , arnaud and claud ; and monsieur aubertin hath obliged the world with a very large and laborious work , about transubstantiation , in which may be seen the sense of the ancients . forbearing then any further discourse about the worship of relicks , or the sacramental bread , i proceed to the worship of saints , angels , and images ; inquiring how far the church of rome doth by her veneration render them idols . at the entrance of this inquiry , the trueness of her faith in one god and three persons , is to be acknowledged and observed . the creed which is formed by order of the council of trent , beginneth with the articles of that of nice ; though it endeth not without additions . and dr. rivet in his reflections on those excellent notes with which the acute grotius adorned the consultation of cassander a , doth in this point , own the orthodoxy of the roman faith. in the article of the divine trin-unity , there is nothing ( saith he ) controverted betwixt papists and protestants . and thus much is true , if spoken of the generality of them ; for they herein adhere to catholick doctrine . thus do the protestants of the church of england ; but all do not so , either here , or beyond the seas , who commonly pass under the name of protestants . curcellaeus , for instance sake , is called a protestant , yet may seem no other than a tritheite , as may appear by the first of those four disputations which he wrote against his sharp adversary maresius . the romanists then professing the true catholick faith in the article of the blessed trinity , and owning the second synod of nice , ( which though it favoured images so very highly , yet it ascribed latria to god only b , ) they seem injurious to them who do not only charge them with idolatry , but also aggravate that idolatry as equal to the false worship of the most barbarous gentiles . they seem unjust , i say , in so doing , unless this be their meaning , that the least degree of that crime under the light of christianity , be equal to the greatest under the disadvantages of heathenism . it is certain that the romanists who worship the true god , do not worship universal nature , or the sun , or the soul of the world in place of the supreme deity , as did millions of pagans . also for the angels which they worship , they justifie only the adoration of those spirits , who persisted in their first estate of unspotted holiness : and they renounce in baptism a the devil and his angels , after the manner of the catholick church . and when an heathen is by them baptized , the priest b after having signed him , first on the forehead , and then on the breast , with the sign of the cross , does exhort him in this form : abhor idols . reject [ their ] images . but the gentiles sacrificed to devils , and to such who by the light of nature , might be known to be evil daemons ; because they accepted of such sacrifices as were unagreeable to the justice and charity , and piety of mankind ; sacrifices vile and bloody ; such whose smoke might be discerned by a common nostril , to smell of the stench of the bottomless pit . yet some of the heathens expresly denied the practice of such worship , and made to the christians this following profession c : we worship not evil daemons . those spirits which you call angels , those we also worship ; the powers of the great god , and the ministeries of the great god. for hero's , they worship those only whom they believe to have professed christian religion , and to have been visible members of the catholick church : for into that ( whatsoever particular communion it was which afterwards they visibly owned ) they were at first baptized . whereas the gentiles worshipped many who had been worshippers of false gods . such worshippers were castor , pollux , quirinus , among the romans . these first worshipped false deities , and were afterwards worshipped themselves with the like undue honour . for images , they venerate ( for so the council of trent loves to speak rather than to say adore or worship , with the second synod a of nice ) those of christ the true god , and of such as they esteem real saints in heaven ; and not the statues of the sun , or of universal nature , or of the soul of the world ; or intentionally those of devils , or damned spirits . in the worship of angels , saints , images , they forbear sacrifice , as proper to god : whereas the heathen did not appropriate it to him ; for some of them offer'd only their minds to the supreme deity , and their beasts to inferior gods . and the greater number offer'd victims , and their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or prayers used in sacrificing , both to god and daemons b . yet it must be confessed , that thus far the church of rome hath gone towards sacrifice to saints . it hath appointed masses , which it esteemeth proper sacrifices or offerings of the body of christ to the father , in honour of her saints : insomuch that such masses bear the names of their hero's ; and nothing is said more commonly than the mass of st. anthony ; the mass of this or the other saint . but in this case the council of trent hath given caution ; and would not have it believ'd that the sacrifice is offered to the saint , but to god only c . now that which i have hitherto shewed , is the fair side of the church of rome , in reference to the idolatry with which she is charged . neither hath my pen dawbed in the representation ; it hath done her but justice . but there is , besides this already exposed to view , a cloudy side of that church which calleth her self the pillar of christian truth . this that we may the better discern , let us first view it in the council of trent , ( or in any later popish synods ) , and then in its own subsequent acts ; and see how far [ first in the point of invocation of saints , and next of images ] it doth directly , or by plain consequence , and not meerly by accidental abuse , usurp any honour which belongeth to god. part . of the idolatry charged on the papists in their worship of saints . first , touching the invocation of saints , the council of trent determineth a that the spirits of holy men reigning with christ , are to be venerated , and invoked : and that they offer prayers to god for us . also , that it is good and lawful to pray to them , and to flie to their prayers ; their help and aid through christ the only saviour and redeemer of men . in pursuance of this decree , the church of rome hath continued her practice of worshipping saints according to certain forms of words prescribed in such books as her breviary and missal , which the popes by virtue of another decree b of the same council have revised , and for common use established . now the forms and signs of worship used in that church are of such a nature , that they seem at first view at least , to give to the saints , if not that honour which is incommunicable , yet that which god , though he might have given it , hath reserved to himself . it may suffice to illustrate this matter , if i select some forms used in the officium parvum of the holy virgin , which maketh a part of the romish breviary , set out in pursuance of the decree of trent , by pius the fifth . in that office the virgin is worshipped in these forms c . establish us in peace . — unloose the bonds of the guilty . bring forth light to the blind . drive away our evils . make us , absolved of our faults , meek and chaste . vouchsafe us a spotless life . thou art most worthy a of all praise . — let all who commemorate thee , have experience of thy assistance . — vouchsafe b that i may praise thee , o sacred virgin , give me power against thy enemies . let c the virgin mary bless us , and our pious off-spring . mary , mother of grace d , mother of mercy ! do thou defend us from the enemy , and receive us at the hour of death . we also find in that little office this exhortation ascribed to bernard e : let us embrace , my brethren , the footsteps of mary , and let us cast our selves at her blessed feet with most devout supplication . let us hold her and not let her go till she bless us ; for she is able . these forms are agreeable to many others in the former part of the roman breviary , out of which i will transcribe only the following suffrages . holy mary f succour the miserable , help the weak-hearted , refresh the weeping , pray for the people , mediate for the clergy , intercede for devout women . let all who celebrate thy commemoration , feel thy aid g . hail , o queen h ! thou mother of mercy , life , sweetness , and our hope , we salute thee . to thee we the banished children of eve , do make our supplication . to thee we sigh , mourning and weeping in this valley of tears . go to therefore our advocatress ; turn towards us those thy merciful eyes ; and shew us after this our banishment , jesus , the blessed fruit of thy womb : o mild , o pious , o sweet virgin mary ! many of these suffrages taken in their plain and common meaning , do manifestly intrench upon the prerogative of god. and of this kind also are those romish prayers which are mentioned by mr. thorndike in the last part of his epilogue i , in which he treateth of the laws of the church . the third sort ( said he ) of [ the prayers of romanists unto saints ] is , when they desire immediately of them the same blessings , spiritual and temporal , which all christians desire of god. there is ( as he proceeds ) a psalter to be seen with the name of god [ or rather lord ] changed , every-where into the name of virgin. there is a book of devotion in french with this title , moyen de bien servir , prier , & adorer la vierge marie : the way well to serve a , pray to , and adore the blessed virgin. the [ prayers of this ] third [ sort ] taking them at the foot of the letter , and valuing the intent of those that use them by nothing but the words of them , are meer idolatries . as desiring of the creature that which god only gives , which is the worship of the creature for the creator , god blessed for evermore . and were we bound to make the acts of them that teach these prayers the acts of the church , because it tolerates them , and maintains b them in it , instead of casting them out , it would be hard to free that church from idolatry , which whoso admitteth can by no means grant it to be a church . the letter then of romish forms being very scandalous , those who justifie the use of them must shew some other words wherein the romish church hath so explained her self to the world , that men may plainly know she never intended them in their common and native acception , but in a sense agreeable to the tenure of scripture ; and of such a sense mr. thorndike in the place before cited , hath judged them capable . if such an interpretation be by her promulgated to the world , the force of the objection against such forms will be abated : abated i say , but not quite removed . for still such forms are perilous amongst the vulgar , who follow the received sense of words notwithstanding their contrary interpretations . there may indeed be a very arbitrarious use of signs ; and if an humorist will give this caution to his neighbour that when he useth the word , black , he must be interpreted as meaning , white , he shall not lye to him when he tells him that the snow is black , and that the crow is white ; or when he writes himself blacklous instead of thomas albius . but amongst others , to whom such caution is not given , and who understand nothing of this absurd humor , his reserved meaning will not salve the veracity of his word . now let it be examined , whether the church of rome hath made before the world , a plain interpretation of the abovesaid forms , in such sort , that men cannot , without breach of charity , put upon them any other than this or the like construction , avowed by many doctors a : holy mary , pray for us in order to the obtaining these or other blessings from the alsufficient god. otherwise that church is answerable for the common and scandalous meaning of the latine words , which are not now proper to rome , but the language of the world. if such an interpretation be divulged we must look for it either in the council of trent , or in some following synods , or in the decrees of the popes , or in the catechism , breviaries , missals , or some other such books which are publickly authorized by that church . for the breviarie and missal , their forms have been already produced ; neither have i omitted any antecedents and consequents which may decipher some hidden meaning in them . it is true , some litanies subjoin the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or , have mercy , only to the persons of the sacred trinity ; using to saints and angels , the form of orate pro nobis , or pray for us . but they who in one prayer desire the saints only to pray for them , do not barely by that one prayer manifest to the world that they still mean no more than the requesting of their intercessions , when in an hundred other forms they call upon them to bestow this and that benefit upon them ; and sometimes a benefit which is not to be expected but from the almightiness of god. for the council of trent , such forms , in the ratification at least of their common use , following by virtue of its decree , they seem rather to be explications of the sense of the council , than to be by it explained . for that were to make the key first , and the lock which it should open afterwards . but if the breviary and missal be explained by the council , they receive a very dark interpretation , and therefore next to insufficient . for the common sense of its forms is naturally , or by custom plain ; and therefore their explication in a forced sense , though exceeding open , will scarce be admitted by the vulgar , who judg by that which is just before them . they like ordinary travellers plod on in the common road which is before their eyes , and mind not the directions which are engraven or written on pillars which stand on their right or left hand . that church should have been careful of the scandalous sound of idolatrous forms , considering how tender religion is of the honour of god : and it should have taken further care against the peril of that idolatry which attendeth them ; considering the weak capacities of the people , who will construe idolatrous forms in an idolatrous sense . if the pope shall set forth a thousand declarations concerning the worship of one true god , and yet shall pray in this form , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , baal have mercy , instead of this ancient one , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lord have mercy ; the world would judg of him as of a well-wisher to baal , though the name does signifie no more than lord ; because the common acceptance of it hath rendred it the sign of a false god . in such manner the world would judg , if he should call on god by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , though it be but the word deus , or god , with a very little alteration . it appeareth then that in some forms a forced interpretation doth not effectually shew the sense which is vail'd under the letter , or rather where the letter looks a contrary way . and for the forms of the church of rome , the council of trent does not give any open interpretation of them , or so much as suggest that nothing is meant by them but an ora pro nobis . for the council where it treateth of the invocation of saints a , it doth not only mention the usefulness of their prayers , but also of their help and assistance ; which assistance if it be no other than that of their prayers , the addition of the words , help and aid , to that of prayers may seem very superfluous . something else that church meaneth , and it is elsewhere expressed by patrocinium , the aid of a patron , or rather of a guardian ; for that it intendeth . in the little office of the blessed virgin this collect is prescribed b , we pray thee , lord , let all thy saints every-where help us , that whilst we celebrate their merits , we may feel their patrocini●… , [ or protection . ] i here interpret patrocinie by guardianship , aid , and protection , not only because the word will bear that sense [ for in festus , patrocinium , is , tutela & defensio ; and in cicero , patronus , is , custos & defensor coloniae ] , but because those prayers refer to their saints as to patrons and patronesses of persons , places and things ; of which more at large , in the pursuit of this argument . in the sixth council of milan c , it is said , to be agreeable to pious reason , by divine offices , and litanies , to implore the intercession or patrocinie of the patrons of cities and provinces . from such patrons they expect other aids besides those of their prayers ; and they tell how they appear in times of danger , and how active they are in effecting their deliverance . in the catechism of trent a , that church owneth christ as the only [ that is , as they mean it , the principal ] patron . and as it intends not to signifie by that word that christ doth no otherwise give aid to his church than by his intercession ; so neither doth it mean the like by the patrocinie of the saints . the council of trent mentions their aids , besides their prayers , and accordingly the people pray for them in such forms as these : o holy mary b — stretch abroad the hand of thy mercy — graciously c hear us in all our needs and necessities , and leave us not comfortless , nor alone without help in that dreadful day and hour , when our souls shall go out of our bodies , but assist and help us , that we may then safely come and enter in at the gates of paradise — to thy d help , o virgin , mother of god , poor women labouring in childbirth do fly : refuse them not in their necessities , but help them in all their distress , o blessed virgin. vers. in all our tribulations and anguishes . resp. the blessed virgin-mother succour us . [ where we have a miserere , not an ora. ] sometimes indeed the romanists call the very prayer of the virgin a protection , as in this form e : we beseech thee , o lord , that the glorious intercession of the ever-blessed and glorious virgin mary may protect us , and bring us to everlasting life . but it is certain that they generally mean some further assistance than that of fupplication when they call for it ; for they are taught that the saints are endued with such a power . hence john heigham in his popish manual a , hath this advertisement as preparatory to confession . commend thy self unto almighty god , to his blessed mother , and to thy good angel , praying , that thou maist no way be seduced , or deceived by the fraud of the devil . also to st. mary magdalene , and to st. barbara : who as it is written , have obtained most effectual grace and favour of god to assist in confession , all such as pray unto them for their help and assistance . if we proceed to other councils later than that of the council of trent , inquiring in them for interpretations of romish offices ; they are not in pretence any more than provincial or national synods , not general councils . wherefore the interpretations of such synods ( if any be found in them ) are not sufficient for the enlightning and manifesting the sense of the whole church . but so far as my observation in the perusal of them , may be of validity , i avouch that there is not in them such an interpretation as referreth the sense of the abovesaid forms , meerly to a praying to the saints to pray for us . in many of them b the doctrine of trent , in this article is owned and reinforced but not , that i know of , further explained . that which i find most opposite to the thing in hand , amidst so vast an heap of decrees , is a certain place in the synod of cambray : a synod held , somewhat more than an hundred years ago c under maximilian a bergis , archbishop and duke of cambray . the place which i mean is in the third chapter , under the title , de sanctis ; and thus it runs : let the prayers of the faithful follow the analogy and proportion of faith. wherefore let the less learned populace be admonished , that when they visit the memorials of the saints , and implore their aid , and according to christian custom , repeat the lords-prayer , that they understand that they direct them not to the saints but unto god ; the saints being joined with them as comprecators . this sounds somewhat like a plea from the roman church-men to the populace of cambray , if care be taken that they be instructed according to that decree of their synod . but that being a decree enacted in a corner of the world , and in a private synod , it cannot suffice in all those places where the roman offices are enjoined , and where the use of them is continual . further , two things are here to be observed in reference to this decree : first , that the invocation of saints as patrons contradicteth not the analogy of the roman-faith . secondly , that the bringing of the forms of invocation to the analogy of faith in this decree does not so much respect the prayers in the missal and breviarie , as the lords-prayer repeated more privately in the litanies of the saints a . proceed we next to the roman decretals . in the new decretals , which make the seventh book in the body of their canon-law , i can find nothing after the creed of trent urged upon all their ecclesiasticks , in the bull of pius the fourth b , besides the pressing of the same form or oath anew by pius the fifth , upon the doctors and professors of all faculties c . for the catechism of trent , i meet indeed with such an interpretation of the forementioned offices , as soundeth to them that do not well attend , as if all were meant of requesting the prayers of saints on our behalf . the place of that catechism d is this which i am going to mention . we do not after the same manner pray to god and to the saints . for we pray to god , that he would give good things , and deliver us from evil ; but we beg of the saints , because they are gracious with god , that they would take us into their patronage , and procure of god the things we need . hence we use two different forms ; for we say properly to god , have mercy on us , hear us : to a saint , pray for us : though upon another account we may pray to the saints themselves to have mercy on us , for they are very merciful . on this place it may not be amiss if i bestow these animadversions . first , when it is said that roman-catholicks pray not to the saints for the bestowing of good , or the averting or removing of evil , this is meant of absolute prayer , ( to use the terms of cardinal perron ) by which we address our selves to the first cause , who is god ; not of relative supplication , by which they call on the saints as subordinate conveyers of good , and averters of evil . so in the hymn , ave mari's stella , the virgin is desired to give light to the blind , and to drive away our evils a . secondly , when papists desire the saints to pray for them , because they are gracious with god , they mean not this only of their desire that the saints would use their interest as saints in their present case , for the procuring of gods immediate help ; but they also intreat them either to procure of god commission to be their patrons , or to continue his grace to them in executing the commission formerly given them . this , i suppose , is meant in those collects , where they desire god to protect his people who trust in the patronage of peter and paul , and other apostles b . and this horstius means in this form of prayer to the virgin c : i beseech thee by that mighty favour granted thee by christ , that thou wilt obtain for me more grace to please god. thirdly , though in the litany where the trinity is invoked with the form of , have mercy ; the saints are called on with that of , pray for us ; ( for the same form so nigh would have sounded ill , as if the saints were equal with god ) ; yet when the saints are addressed to in distinct collects or hymns , the form is , help us , as well as , pray for us . thus in the hymn , alma redemptoris mater . they ( a ) pray to the virgin in the form of , peccatorum miserere . fourthly , here is own'd a request both for patronage and prayer . and further , in that catechism ( b ) , the saints are called mediators and patrons ; and there is mention ( c ) of their aids ; and their worship d is confounded with that of angels under the name of angelical spirits . and of them it is there affirmed , that god hath appointed them to be his ministers ; that he useth their ministration in the government , both of his church , and of other things ; and that by their help we are daily delivered from the greatest dangers of soul and body . for the books of publick offices , their forms have been already produced ; neither can i see where the comment of any rubrick removeth the scandal of their text. concerning manuals , they are usually composed by private doctors , or devout students , who often intermix the glosses of their own reason . but nothing less than the church it self can authentickly explain its universal practice . and for such manuals as are authorized by the church , to me they seem to transcend , rather than to come short of , the forms of the missal and breviarie . such a manual is that of the hours of of the blessed virgin , in which if there had been any such explication of the forms used to her , it had been shut up together with other manuals , from the common view of the christian world , by the interdict of any vulgar translation of it a . for to every country has not been granted the sclavonian priviledg b : that people have been allowed the books of their religion in their vulgar tongue , with advice notwithstanding , to embrace the latin , though to them an unknown language . in the province of mexico it was decreed by the synod c , that no books of religion should be read without the permission of the ordinary . and the manuals which were appointed for the use of the people , whether spanish or indian , were not likely to expound to them the meaning of the roman forms ; for their contents were these : the lords-prayer ; the salutation by the angel ; the apostles creed ; the articles of faith , [ those in the creed of trent ] ; the precepts of the decalogue ; the precepts of the church ; the seven sacraments ; the seven deadly sins ; and the salve regina . this antiphona called salve regina , has been already repeated ; and it is one of the higher forms of the worship of the virgin. and father paul did in some measure shew his dislike of it d , in forbearing to repeat it , as did his brethren at the end of the mass. but it is true , that he coloured his aversness with such an excuse as this , that he was not to observe a decree of thirty fryars against the order of the whole church . now in the abovesaid synod of mexico e , there is a special inforcement of the singing of salve regina daily , and with all solemnity , during a great part of lent. and the bishops are there much pressed to procure in this manner , with all solicitude , the increase of pious devotion towards the holy virgin. the english romanists have had often in their hands the manual of godly prayers , published at st. omers by john heigham . in the sixth edition of that book , i find no explication of the worship of saints , but much which seemeth to advance it to a degree too high for it . under the first ( or in our account the second commandment ) the penitent is there a taught to confess this as one breach of it , that he hath not daily recommended himself to god and his saints . in the litany of our lady he hath these forms : o holy mary b , stretch abroad the hand of thy mercy , and deliver our hearts from all wicked thoughts , hurtful speeches , and evil deeds . — o holy mary c we worship thee , we glorifie thee . words which are a part of that religious thanksgiving which the ancient church offered to god , and called the angelical hymn . horstius in his manual called the paradise of the soul , reprinted lately at colen , and adorned with sculptures , seems as devout as heigham now cited ; for thus he prays d , or comments on gratia plena : o blessed virgin , be graciously pleased to pour forth that grace of which thou art full ; that the vein of thy benignity overflowing , the guilty may receive absolution ; the sick , medicine ; the weak in heart , strength ; the afflicted , consolation ; those that are in danger , help and deliverance . o that i could but deserve one drop of such great fulness , for the refreshing of my dry and parched heart ! for the private oral instructions of the romish ecclesiasticks concerning the use and intent of such forms , i pretend not to be well acquainted with them . but as to their publick preaching i am not ignorant of one very common and no less scandalous usage . for the preacher after a short preface which introduceth his text or subject , exhorts the congregation to say ave maria , in order to a blessing upon that holy business about which they are assembled . and this the reader may see not only in the more private sermons of monsieur de lingendes , but likewise in the more publick one of john carthenius a carmelite , at the provincial synod of cambray a . by this discourse it plainly appeareth that the letter of the roman forms in the invocation of saints , does to the most vulgar ears , sound as idolatrous : as also that that church hath not provided any publick , direct , clear interpretation of them , in its subsequent synods , missals , breviaries , catechism , decretals , authentick manuals , or what i likewise may add , in its bullarium , which ( as shall anon be shewed ) exalteth the canonized into the condition of patrons and guardians of men . there then remaineth this only to be said by the learned of that communion : that they who hear the church professing plainly its faith in one supreme god in trinity , cannot think it meaneth by any words whatsoever to give to the creature the supreme honour of that trinity which it so solemnly acknowledgeth . and indeed seeing all the romanists believe the apostles creed , seeing many of them appropriate all latria to god ; seeing they teach in their manuals b that therefore all prayers are ended with [ through jesus christ our lord ] to signifie that whatsoever we beg of god the father , we must beg it in the name of jesus christ , by whom he hath given us all things ; some allowance is to be made them in the exposition of those forms , which sound as if the saints were invoked with latria . but yet it may be demanded , whether the forms and practice of a corrupt church may not contradict their general rule of faith ? whether the roman forms be applied to that rule of faith by any but prudent ecclesiasticks and laicks , who are not the greater number ? whether amongst them they take not away some honour from god , though not that which is absolutely incommunicable ? and whether a church which calleth it self christian and catholick , should not be more careful of publick forms of speaking in prayer , ( such as may render the supplicants idolaters , in themselves in the ignorant use of them ; and to others by the external scandal ) whatsoever license the world takes in phrases of common speech . and here it were well if those who so often alledg mr. thorndike , in favour of their cause , would weigh the words of a letter of his , said to be written about a year before he died a . to pray to the saints ( saith he ) for those things which only god can give , as all papists do , is in the proper sense of the words , idolatry . if they say , their meaning is by a figure only to desire them to procure their requests of god , how dare any christian trust his soul with that church which teacheth that which must needs be idolatry in all that understand not that figure ? they who believe not that these are his words , are sure unacquainted with the writings of the author b , and the great integrity of the reporter . it is certain that among our selves in our more ordinary conversation , such forms of speech are used towards men , which in their extent are applicable to god. we say that such students had their grace in the senate-house ; or that there they have been created doctors , [ a phrase it seems too crude for the digestion of some c nice stomacks . ] when the weak are pursued by a savage beast , or by a man cruel as such a creature , they run into the arms of kinder persons , and desire them to save them and deliver them . and because these forms are used to men by those who own nothing but what is humane in them , and because the matter of their request is apparently such too , and in the power of man ; these equivocal phrases are by general acknowledgment , determined to one sense . but were civil forms more liable to mistake , a church , sure , should exercise a more tender care in those of religion ; and chuse such as might be apter to edifie than mislead the meanest in her communion . now in such forms of common speech as i have mentioned , though there is not any proper worship of men , yet there is more desired of them , than that they would pray to god for us . when esau beseeched his father to bless him , he did not merely request him to pray for a blessing , but to pronounce over him that sentence of benediction , which he as the father of that family had commission from god to pronounce with authority and to effect . and when an importunate widow does by her repeated crys for vengeance , or publick justice for deliverance and safeguard , render the very ears of an unjust judg attentive ; she intreats more of him than that he would speak for her to the king. she supposeth him in commission , and indued with power to help her , though she knows him in this very point of his assistance to be subordinate to his prince . there is more in the forms of the roman church than the bare indiscretion of them . and though the incommunicable honour of god be not by their measure , the rule of faith , devolved on the creature ( for a papist so interpreting those forms , should by that church be condemned as an heretick , and a violater of the fundamental article of one god in trinity ; ) yet still to me it seemeth , that the honour which god hath not actually communicated , is by them misplaced on angels , at least on saints . i do not , in saying this , ground my perswasion barely on the common argument of that ubiquity which many conclude to be ascribed to saints and angels in the invocation of them a . the foundation of that argument is laid on a matter which is disputed . for they who contend that the angels hear or know what is done on earth , do expresly deny ubiquity to them . though some private romanists have mentioned appearances of the person of the virgin in distant places at the same time ; and others have represented her or some other saint as dwelling in a particular statue . and to such it is proper to put the question of arnobius : let us suppose ( said he ) that there are ten thousand statues of vulcan in all the world , can that one deity be in so many thousand habitations at one time ? but others infer this knowledg in the saints and angels , partly from the perfection of their spiritual nature , by which ( saith c dr. holden ) they know all the natures , motions , and actions of corporeal things ; partly from their personal presence as guardians of men , and as gods retinue in religious assemblies ; and partly from the revelation of god , and from what they call the glass of the trinity , [ a mirrour of which i profess my self very ignorant , and which my curiosity desires not to look into ; and which the inventers might in reverence have spared , rather than to have exposed the essence of god as a substance reflecting all visible ideas ] . they gather this also in part from the intelligence given by some angels unto the rest , who are of the same community . this they say plausibly concerning angels ; for of saints they have much less ground thus to speak . only this may be allowed them concerning both ; that being spirits , we know not whether such distance as that of this world does hinder communication . for if it be not done by motion , they may ( possibly ) as well understand at the distance of an hundred miles , as at that of a furlong . this only i observe by the way as an objection , that the ancients , who are said to platonize , held neither angels nor souls departed to be uncloathed spirits , but united to bodies of aether or aer . wherefore it seemeth that their knowledg of external , material objects , must depend on physical motion , which by distance is scattered or diverted from the streightness of its lines , and consequently from the exact truth of its intelligence . it is most probable that angels are often absent from grown men , especially whilst they remain in ordinary circumstances . and the scripture speaks of the angels as being , on this or the other occasion , sent to men , and then removed from them . this is manifest in the known cases of abraham , daniel , s. peter , s. john , and the blessed virgin her self . more probable still it is , that the same angel hath not intelligence , not only of all the affairs of the world , but of all the prayers that are addressed to him . for many such addresses being very improper , and sometimes immoral , we must not think that god or other good angels are concerned in telling him the news of them , unless it be in order to punishment . and for the saints whom god hath not ( that we know of ) made ministring spirits ; who are not , before the resurrection and final judgment , in complete glory ; of whose appearing after death , the scripture hath given us , in the old testament , but one instance , and that a very doubtful one ( it not being certain whether it was the apparition of samuel , or of the devil , or the imposture of the witch of endor speaking inwardly : ) and , in the new , but that one ( as i remember ) of moses and elias when christ was transfigured . it is not so much as by probable arguments yet evinced , that they know our particular estate , though it is evident that they wish well to the world of mankind , and especially to the body of the christian church . for sure they lose not their affection in heaven , where , whilst some other graces cease , charity is eternal and in perfection . wherefore , though the praying to saints and angels may not necessarily infer their ubiquity ; and for that reason be called idolatrous ; yet if they hear us not , it may be called an unwarranted , impertinent , idle labour . it is , as saint paul a speaketh , an intruding into the things which we have not seen . and certainly when we pray not only to those that do not hear us , but to such as have no existence but in fiction ; it is emphatical impertinence . what else are the seven sleepers , considered as such ? and yet in the institutions of a spiritual life b published with elogy , by sfondratus ( afterwards a pope by the name of gregory the fourteenth ) , and composed by a nameless virgin , those seven are selected together with a few othere , as saints to be venerated with especial devotion . what else are s. sulpitius , and s. severus , considered as distinct persons ? and yet in an ancient and fair romish manual c , i find this to be part of a litany : holy sulpitius , pray for me : holy severus , pray for me . also , holy faith , pray for me : holy hope , pray for me : holy charity , pray for me . the learned bishop montague d doth call the romish invocation of saints a point of foolery : it being ( he saith ) at least uncertain , whether they are , and in what manner they can be acquainted with our wants , seeing their condition is not to attend us , and they are removed far above our reach and call . he entertained the like opinion of praying to such angels as are not guardians . but of them that are such , he supposeth them to be ever in procinctu , nigh at hand to men , and in attendance on them all their days . hence he seeth no impiety in this address a , sancte angele custos ora pro me , holy guardian-angel pray for me . [ he had put the matter more out of doubt , if he had supposed the angel appearing , and certainly known to be an holy spirit of that quality . ] but for the invocation of other angels he thinketh it as foolish and ridiculous , as his praying to a friend at constantinople to help him , whilst he himself is at london . others have gone further in their censure , and they have called the invocation of saints more than an impertinent , that is , a sinful , though not an idolatrous practice . and indeed so plain a misuse of a mans reason cannot but be offensive to the creator , who gave it not to man that he should trifle with it . but this is not their manner of arguing . they tell us such invocation is not of faith ; and that whatsoever is not of faith is sin . but what art of thinking teacheth them to draw consequences on this fashion ? whatsoever is done by man against the present perswasion of his conscience , which admits it with great reluctancy as irreligious , is in him sinful : therefore the invocation of saints or angels by papists , who desire them to pray for them when they do not hear , though they in their conscience believe they do ; is a wicked practice , because it ariseth not from faith or perswasion . had they said every thing in such weak and unconcluding logick , they had wounded their own cause more than that of their adversaries . if now there were nothing in this romish invocation besides their desire of angels and saints to pray for them to god almighty , i should forbear to call it idolatry , and give it the softer names of misperswasion , impertinence , irrational or fruitless beating the air . for they amongst them who are the more prudent , suppose the saints to hear them by other means than by divine omnipresence , and infiniteness of understanding ; and they call upon them for such an office as a good man on earth would do for them , much more a saint or angel in heaven . for what christian will deny the petition of his neighbour , when he desireth him only to pray to god for him ? unless perhaps he neglecteth prayer himself , and appeareth to have sinned a sin unto death , of which they are scarce guilty , who beg the prayers of others ; such piety being seldom discerned either in presumptuous christians , or in apostates . but in the romish invocation there is much more than a praying to saints and angels to pray for us . it is not indeed intentionally the worship of any of them under the notion of a supreme god , how high a note soever doth sound in their forms ; for that their own church renounceth as idolatry . and the church-men teach the people a , that it is lawful to worship angels and saints with dulia , or inferior honour , proportioned to their excellency , but not as god , or with gods honour . they give not to them gods incommunicable honour , if they understand the rule of their faith ; but to me they seem to give them honour beyond the proportion of their excellency , even that which god hath to himself reserved . this is plain by the natural construction of their forms , which they have not otherwise interpreted , but confirmed this meaning of them by their doctrines , and by their daily practice . this is that which i here mean , and think i shall evince : that though they make not any saint or angel the supreme governour of the world , yet they constitute the spirits of either kind , deputies or lieutenants under god , and suppose him not only as occasion serveth , to use their ministry , but to make them guardians , patrons , and patronesses ; and to allow them for such upon the choice of worshippers on earth . they instruct the people in their manuals , not only how to address themselves to their guardian-angels a , but also to chuse and worship their guardian saints b . they teach them ( c ) in their daily exercises to remember such saints , that for every office of life they may take to them particular assistants ; that so they may pray with this saint , and sleep with that : that one saint may be present at their canonical hours when they read ; that another may be by when they hear a sacred lecture ; when they work , when they dine , when they sup . they teach them d to select one or more out of the number of the saints as their patron ; to love them , to imitate them ; through their hands to offer daily all their works to god ; to commend themselves to their protection morning and evening , and at other times , especially in difficulties and tentations ; to use them as witnesses and directors of their actions . they give to this spirit this precinct , and that to another . they give to some authority over this disease , to others over that . they substitute some over one part of nature , and others over another part of it ; though i think they do not quite tye them from intermedling in one anothers diocesses or precincts . and st. paul the patron of mariners may be called upon in a fever ; and st. luke the patron of physicians , may have his aid implored in a tempest e . this is an opinion maintained by them without imputation of heresie : this they conceive to be consistent with the worship of one supreme god ; to this they conform their daily practice . this lieutenancy of saints if they do not really hold , their church is a very roma subterranea , and there is nothing of its meaning to be discerned above ground . this opinion and practice had been the more tolerable if they had restrained it unto angels , of whose presence , knowledg , ministration , the scripture hath spoken ; but they extend it to saints , and for the holy virgin , their devotion is greater towards her , than towards the highest angel ; she being called the queen of those heavenly powers a . the authoress of the spiritual institutions b prays not only to the angels , to the angel-guardian of her person , and to the angel-guardian of her religion , [ that is , of her order ] , but likewise to st. bernardine , st. placidus , and other saints c , as to her selected patrons . and horstius ( a man of rank devotion towards spirits , and often to be remembred by me ) treateth first of the worship of saints , and of them as patrons ; and then of the worship of angels and angel-guardians . concerning angels he sheweth that holy men , such as he so esteemeth , did both pray to their guardian-spirit d , and to such angels as were presidents of kingdoms , provinces , cities , towns , with solioitous zeal ; and he nameth st. xavier , st. aloysius , and st. francis ; and calleth to mind the singular devotion of the last towards st. michael the archangel . then for the saints he celebrates them as such e , who being formerly servants and stewards , are now set over all the goods of their lord in the land of the living . he saith f that it belongeth to their praise and glory that their aid be invoked , and that they protect us in necessity . and he teacheth his reader thus to worship the virgin : holy mary , mother of god , and virgin , i , though unworthy to serve thee , yet trusting in the clemency of thy motherly heart , chuse thee this day before my guardian-angel and the whole court of heaven , for my mother and peculiar lady , patroness , and advocatrix . and i firmly resolve henceforth to serve a thee and thy son , with fidelity , and perpetually to adhere to you . i beseech thee by that love by which thy son when he was giving up the ghost upon the cross , commended himself to his father , and thee to his true disciple , and him again to thee ; to take me into thy care and protection ; and be thou with me in all the straits and dangers of my whole life ; but especially help me in the hour of my death . amen . i have said that it is more tolerable to pray thus to angels , than it is to saints ; but i can find little ground in reason or scripture thus to worship the angels themselves . reason teacheth that god who made the world is the governour of it . the scripture teacheth that there are distinct orders of angels , but it disalloweth of such lieutenancy under god , as men have ascribed to them . it mentioneth thrones , and powers , and dominions , and principalities ; yet rather in allusion to the gnosticks ( as was above conjectured ) than by way of assertion of such orders . those hereticks irenaeus provoketh to tell what b is the nature of invisible beings , what is the number and order of angels , what are the mysteries of thrones , and the diversities of dominions , principalities , powers , virtues ; and he assureth us they were at a loss . so ignorant was the christian world in his time of the nine orders of the feigned dionysius the areopagite . that there are distinct orders of spirits ; that there are angels and archangels , i firmly believe . but it does not thence follow , that the government of the world is shared amongst them , though they have a ministerial part in the affairs of it . archangels seem no other than the seven spirits typified by the seven lamps in the temple a . their office was as elect and eminent spirits , to minister before the throne of god , and on solemn occasions to be sent in embassie to the world. such a one was gabriel , who stood in the presence of god ; and was sent to the blessed virgin . nothing of this inferreth their distinct provinces committed to them , but it sheweth only the dignity of their station , and their occasional ministry . neither doth it follow from the seven angels mentioned as presidents of the seven churches of asia , that they , as some have taught , were under the charge and patronage of seven spirits . for st. john is required to write to these angels b , and to reprove their faults , [ as the abatement of love in the angel of ephesus and his church . ] and he makes distinct mention c of the seven spirits , and the seven stars , which latter he had shewed to be the angels of those churches d , and who were therefore no other than the bishops of them , called by a name which is given the high priest , in the prophet malachy e , and by the jews in diodorus f . christian religion owneth but one proper substitute under god , one paraclete or patron , ( for so g that title signifies ) one proper mediator , the glorified jesus ; the spirits under him are but angels or messengers , though sent abroad on different embassies , wherefore i know not how to approve of the expression of a late very grave and learned author , who h speaketh of the invisible regiment of the world by the subordinate government of good and evil angels . it is true that the good are a community [ and so in some sort are the bad ] but their divers orders concern their own society most ; and they are not to be construed as the orders and powers in the frame of gods government of the whole world. it is also to be confessed that elisha's servant ( to reflect a little on his instance ) saw fiery chariots and horsmen in the mount : and that this was a representation of gods angels in the scene of a camp. but no other argument ought to be fetched thence , besides that which concludeth that there is a greater power in god and his coelestial ministers than in the armies of the world. he that will torture this vision , and make it confess commission-officers amongst them , ought also to make them ride on horses and chariots . for evil angels , their dominion is oftner mentioned than that of the good . but certainly , though they are called in scripture , principalities and powers , no man that carefully attendeth to his words , will call them also subordinate governours of the world. for they are professed rebels against god , who doth not own or treat them as his subjects ; but he being provoked by the perverseness of wicked men , permitteth those rebellious daemons to exercise great power amongst the children of disobedience , who are in indirect covenant with them . it is worse still to say , that god ruleth the world by saints , than to affirm so much of him in reference to his holy angels : yet this the romanists openly maintain a , and some also who have not only disputed , but even raved against the church of rome . for so it is said by thomas goodwin in his sermon of the fifth monarchy b , that the saints on earth have by their prayers an influence in the managing the affairs of the world , and into the accomplishment of all the great things that christ doth for his church . that though it may be , and it is certain , they have not in all ages known ( according to what is in the prophesie of st. john ) what jesus christ will do next ; yet that still by the spirit of prophesie , as it were , the saints have been guided to seek for those things at the hands of god and christ , which he was about to accomplish . also , that the saints in heaven , before the day of judgment , have a share and an hand in christs government of the world : and that they have a knowledg a ( by the angels that are continually messengers from heaven to earth ) of the great things that are done here . and he that writeth the epistle to the reader , maketh this application of mr. goodwins doctrine : now ( saith he ) what may we think the saints in heaven ( who within these ten years last past , lost their lives in the cause of christ [ he meaneth the army-saints , from the year forty-four , to that of fifty-four , who dy'd in maintenance of the bad old cause ] ) are employed about at this time ; they understanding by the angels what great — [ changes ] are come to pass on our earth ? those of whose saintship we have better assurance , though in a state of rest and light , are esteemed by the fathers but a kind of free prisoners , not being acquitted by the publick sentence of the general judgment b . and their opinion who give them a lieutenancy under god in the government of the world before that day , does recall to my mind the argument used by that truly great man sir walter raleigh , in his own unhappy case : he pleaded that the grant of a commission from the king , did argue him to be absolved ; and that he who had power given him over others , was no longer under a sentence against his own life . abraham and isaac do not now rule us , and it may be , they are ignorantt of us : which whilst i affirm , i do not wholly ground my assertion on the text in isaiah c . that soundeth otherwise , whether we take it in its positive or hypothetical sense . it s positive sense may be this : doubtless thou art our father , notwithstanding we live not under the care of abraham or isaac , but are by many generations removed from them , who therefore knew us not a , or own'd us not , we being not men of their times ; we are their seed however , though at a great distance ; and to such also was thy promise made . and for the hypothetical sense it may be this : be it supposed that abraham knows nothing of us , yet certain we are that thou art the god of israel whose knowledg and care of thy people never faileth . i admit here , that the saints pray for the church in general , that angels are concerned in particular ministrations ; but that angels and even saints have shares of the government of the world , though in subordination to god , so as to be commission-officers under the king of heaven , and not only attendants on his throne , and as it were yeomen and messengers of his court , ( the general condition of the angels ) i cannot admit without peril of idolatry . this in my conceit is the great resemblance betwixt the romanists and the gentiles : both of them suppose the world to be ruled under god , by several orders of daemons and heroes ; though i have confessed already that they are not so exactly alike but that rome-christian may be distinguished from rome-pagan . for the gentiles , so much hath been shewn already ; and it may appear further , from the place of the greek historian cited in the margent b . and for the romanists , that too hath already been manifested in part , and shall be further decl●…red : and rivallius in his history of the civil law , or commentary on the twelve tables c , does very honestly confess it . he having commented on that law which ordereth the worship of the heathen gods , both daemons and heroes , letteth fall words not unfit to be here gathered up by us . christians ( saith he , meaning those of the roman communion ) retain a religion like to this ; for they worship god immortal : and for those that excel in virtue , and shine with miracles , first with great pomp and inquisition they register them among the deities [ or saints ] and then they worship them , and after that they erect temples to them ; as we see in the case of s. john , s. peter , s. catherine , s. nicholas , s. magdalen , and other deities . in this point , then , let us join issue , and offer on our side the manifestation of these particulars . first , on what occasions this worship of ruling-spirits came into the church . secondly , how it derogateth from the honour of god as governour of the world. thirdly , how it derogateth from the honour of jesus as the mediator and king ordained by god. first , for the occasions of this worship , i conceive them to be especially these two ; the celebration of the memory of the martyrs at their tombs ; and the compliance of the christians with the northern nations when they invaded italy and other places , in hope of appeasing them , and effecting their conversion . first , i reckon as an occasion of this worship , the celebration of the memory of the martyrs at their tombs , and monuments , and reliques , and in the churches sacred to god , in thankfulness for their examples . the thankful and honourable commemoration of the martyrs , was very ancient and innocent at the beginning . for , as the epistle of the church of smyrna , concerning the martyrdom of st. polycarp , testifies a , they esteemed the bones of the martyrs more precious than jewels ; they kept their birth-days [ that is , the days of their martyrdom on which they began most eminently to live ] ; they pursu'd them with a worthy affection , as disciples and imitators of christ , but they worshipped none but christ , believing him to be the son of god a . but laudable customs degenerate through time . and this , in the fourth century , began to be stretched beyond the reason of its first institution , as appeareth by the apostrophe's of st. basil , st. gregory nazianzen , and others of that age. afterwards the vanity of men ran this usage into a dangerous extreme ; and those who had been commemorated as excellent and glorified spirits , and whose prayers were wished , were directly invoked and worshipped as the subordinate governours of gods church . this veneration of the martyrs , which superstition thus strained , was occasioned by the miracles which god wrought where his martyrs were honoured . times of persecution at home , and of invasion from abroad , required such aids for the encouragement of catholick christians , and the conversion of infidels and misbelievers . thus in the days of st. austin , [ in whose age the getae or goths sacked rome , and many of the barbarous people imputed the present misfortunes of italy to the christian religion b , ] god pleased to work miracles at the bodies of the martyrs , protasius and gervasius c , in the city of milan . thus ( as is reported by procopius and egnatius ) he miraculously saved those christians at rome , and pagans also d , both in the time of alaricus and theudoricus , who fled to the churches of st. paul , and st. peter . and he did it , saith grotius e , by a providence like to that by which they were saved in jerusalem , who had kept the law , which was signified by the letter thau [ that is , thorah the law , ] written on their foreheads , as is said in ezekiel . they went out of babylon , or rome , to the holy places which stood without the city , and there remained in undisturbed peace , more by gods protection , than the gothick clemency ; though by the edict of alarick , such churches were made the sanctuaries of christians a . this instance , no doubt , heightned the veneration of many towards the martyrs , though god wrought such things , not as testimonies of the power of the martyrs , but as supports to the christian religion . and this being an instance in the gothick story , it reminds me of the second occasion of the worship of spirits as rulers of the world in certain precincts , especially in this western church ; to wit , the invasion of the northern nations , who sought their preferment by quitting their own country . in rome it self a great number of the senators worshipped idols in the very reign of theodosius the great . and many worshippers of false gods , upon the sack of rome by the goths under alaricus , did , saith st. austin in the argument of his book of the city of god , charge the calamity on the christian religion , and blaspheme the true god with bitterer words than it was their custome to use . and this ( as he declareth ) stirred up his zeal , and moved him for the stopping of their ungodly mouths , and refuting their errors , to write that book . for the goths themselves , the general body of them was barbarously idolatrous , ( though some of that people had received betimes the christian faith ; for theophilus a gothick bishop was at the council of nice ) and the vandals were wholly pagans . neither were there under heaven a people more zealously devoted to daemons than the scythians , getes , or goths b , of the thracian getes , pausanias saith in his baeoticks , that they were a more acute nation than the macedonians , and c by no means so negligent in the worship of their gods . schedius in his dissertations concerning the german-gods , hath remembred very many gothick deities ▪ and there is a learned man of our own nation a , who tells us that he hath not numbred the half of them . of herald the first king of norway , it is reported by crantzius b , that he offered two of his own sons unto his daemons , for the obtaining at sea , such a tempest as might disperse that armado of herald the sixth , king of denmark , which was prepared against him ; and that he obtained that for which he had bidden so dear and bloody a rate . after the further conversion of those northern people none more corrupted their worship , than they with the observance of tutelar saints . in the chronicle of swedeland , the inferior deities of that place exceed the number of the villages ; and i need no further instance than that which i find in felix faber c a monk of ulma . a town ( saith he ) night to ulma is seflingen , in which is the blessed virgin presiding in the garden of virgins , and keeping on the west the walls of that city . on the south is situate the village of wiblingen , in which st. martin armed both with the temporal and spiritual militia , is the patron of the church , and the guardian of the ulmenses . nigh also is schuvekhofen , an ancient town , where at this day standeth a church in which s. john the evangelist watcheth over ulma . on the east is the village pful , where standeth the mausoleum of the blessed virgin in the publick street . there she demonstrates by certain miracles , that she dwells in that place . thence she looks upon ulma with the eyes of mercy , and defends it . in that village s. udalricus is patron of the church ; an excellent guardian of the citizens who implore his aid . on the north , on the royal mountain of elchingen is placed a lofty throne of the blessed virgin , to the terror of all that have evil will at ulma . he further mentions st. george , st. leonard , all saints with the virgin in the midst of them , st. james , and st. michael , as patrons and defendants of that place . and for st. michael , he is placed on a mountain on the west-side , as a watchman looking over the whole city , and in armour as the protector of it . now the northern barbarians being so inclined to the worship of tutelar daemons , it is no wonder if many christian - romans , to mollifie their savageness , and to induce them to christianity , so far complied as to offer them tutelar saints and holy angels instead of their evil guardian spirits . this , i suppose , they did , because i find the concurrence of their invasion and stay in italy , and of the rise and growth of daemon-worship there , both happening in the fourth and fifth centuries . and it may not be unworthy the observation of the reader , that in the fifth century , st. michael the archangel , a most eminent patron ( as we just now heard from felix faber ) among the northern christians , was first commemorated in the western church , by a solemn feast a . i would here further note , that woden ( not the mercury , but the mars of the northern idolaters ) was in highest esteem among them : that michael answereth to him , being , as the roman litanies b stile him , the prince of the heavenly host : that this feast of st. michael was then instituted when peace was desired betwixt odoacer king of the heruli , ( who came first from scandanivia , and were called afterwards lombards ) ; and theodorick the first king of the goths in italy . having thus aimed at the resolution of the fiast inquiry , the occasion of daemon-worship in the church ; i proceed to shew in the second place , that this worship derogateth from the honour of god as governour of the world by his immediate self , though also by a substitute ; for he is likewise the same essential god. it is both by the romanists and the reformed acknowledged , that god is the governour of the world ; that in him we live , and move , and have our being : that he giveth us life , and breath , and all things : that to him all glory is to be referred . neither hath he anywhere declared that he hath divided the regiment of the world into several lieutenancies of angels or saints . he hath no-where shewed us , that he hath given to this angel , and that saint ( not to a saint especially ) a commission to rule in such a precinct ; or a patent to practice as a supernatural physician , in such a city or town , or any-where , in the cure of such a disease ; or orders to assist at this mass , and that confession . if therefore such effects of protection , health and assistance follow , and are believed a to comefrom this or the other saint , though as subordinate to god the supreme governour , and infinite physician ; yet a degree of trust is put in them b as plenipotentiaries or substitutes of the king of the world ; and a degree of thanks is given to them as to such delegates . and god seemeth robbed of the honour of dispensing particular favours , though the general grant be derived from him . whereas it may be in many cases god himself hath done all without so much as the ministry of an angel , much less of a saint ; and consequently ought to have received the whole honour , of which good part being ( though by mistake , a mistake soon rectified by them who examine things ) ascribed to the creature , is therefore in that degree idolatrous . a good part is in these cases generally ascribed to saints ; and it is well if some look up any higher at the time of their deliverance . we see , in the administration of political affairs , that subjects , though owning , notionally , the supremacy of their prince , yet go , often , no further , in their trust , or thanks , than to those men , who by their place , and office , and deputed authority , can , very effectually , dispatch their affairs without higher application . and he that is protected as a servant to a senator , pays all his acknowledgment to his master who received him , kindly , into his service ; and not to the king who is but the more remote , though the supreme author of this priviledg . and it is plain , from romish history it self , that the pay goes to that saint who is believed in commission , whilst god is , by supine inadvertence , scarce remembred . so the liber festivalis b tells us , that when s. gilbert was afflicted with a soar throat , the virgin took her , feyre pappe , and milked on his throat , and went her way , and anon therewith he was hole , and thanked our lady ever after . i will clear my meaning a little further by proposing more instances , of which the first shall be made in the annalist baronius , and applied unto the present occasion . this laborious writer is looked upon as the very champion of the papacy . his twelve tomes of ecclesiastical story are reputed so many pillars of the roman cause . that great man in the papacy , sixtus quintus , gave great encouragement to the author and his work . the archbishop of gnesna in poland , as likewise other great and zealous men , who were bygots for the papacy , thought it fit to be translated into all languages ; and set on foot a polonian , italian , and german version . if he speaks not like a true roman catholick , from whom shall we hear the words of a son of that church ? hear him , then , at the end of his several tomes , and you will find him , owning indeed the supremacy of god , for that was an article of his faith : but withal you will find him zealously asserting a delegation of considerable power to the blessed virgin ; as also making very thankful remembrances of her favours , in the guidance and success of his pen. and these remembrances are in such manner expressed , that if , by them , nothing is meant of assistance from the virgin , besides the help of her prayers for him , i must search out some new dictionary for the interpretation of his latin. at the end of the first tome of those his annals , he doth , as it were , hang up a table , in acknowledgment of those powers who had conducted him through that vast sea , ( as he rhetorically calls it ) of the matters of the first age. his doxology a is offered to the father , the son , and the holy spirit , and likewise to the most holy virgin , under the title of the conciliatrix of the deity . for to her ( saith he ) as we refer all these our works , they being received from her ; so likewise to her we offer them : that the same b virgin may offer them , how mean soever , to her beloved son ; that she may sanctifie them with the vouchsafe of her blessing , and obtain that favour for the oblation ; that he may be to us a portion in the land of the living . and over the words of this address she is pictured crowned , and with her son , as an infant , in her arms , and with a retinue not only of angels in general , but of cherubims , the attendants on gods throne . for his second tome , this is a part of the conclusion of it . here then c let our discourse , wearied with a longer journey , opportunely repose it self : and , being mindful of the benefit , let it thankfully cast it self ( as is our custom ) at the feet of the most holy mary the mother of god : that it may offer to her , from whom it acknowledgeth the whole to be received , whatsoever it understandeth it hath obtained of god by her prayers . and let it cast into her as into a most holy and living treasury , after the manner of the widow , two mites , collected in poverty , with great labour ; the two tomes , i mean , of the annals now finished . let that very virgin be to us the most safe ark in which our labours may be kept , and in safe custody protected ; lest a thief breaking thorough ( to wit , the appetite of vain-glory ) , steal them away ; or the moth and rust adhering to them ( to wit , vain and fallacious hopes ) corrupt them , or eat through them . for she is the true and divine ark made of shittim-wood , which preserveth from corruption , those things which are committed to her care . — in his third tome this is his peroration : seeing now a ( as saith ecclestastes ) rivers return to the place whence they came , that they may flow again ; it is plainly fit that to that fountain , whence all our labours have flowed , they be recalled as to their proper original , and by reciprocal flux be thither refunded ; that thence they may be poured forth upon us in greater plenty . to her therefore by whom the whole of this gift comes to us from god ; to the most holy virgin ( i say ) mary the mother of god , we offer very humbly this third tome of annals , as we have already done those other which we have published . his peroration in his fourth tome , thus beginneth : now b by your aid ( virgin mary , mother of god ) pay we down the fourth part of our task ; and to you we pay it , from whence we received it . for you have found it wool and flax , and wrought it with the counsel of your hands . wherefore , for the rest of the work , perform it your self ; and weave those threds , whatsoever they be ( and in your hand undoubtedly they will be golden ) into those sacerdotal garments , of which david thus speaketh : let thy priests be clothed with righteousness . — i will deck her priests with salvation . i beseech thee make for us those two garments ; for those of thy family are said to be doubly clothed . the fifth tome hath a like conclusion , to this sense . this a fifth issue , mother of god , received from your favour , conceived by your prayers , i [ here ] bring for a thankful acknowledgment , as anna did samuel to you the living tabernacle of god. — the sixth tome endeth thus : we are now in the haven b in which men sail not . we contract our sails , and we fasten our cable to a solid rock ; intending in due time to set sail again . now then what remaineth but that we betake our selves by humble supplication , to that temple of god which is always open , the very mother of god ; giving thanks to god by her , and paying our vows for the victory we have obtained over the waves that opposed us . and as mariners are wont to offer their oar ; so let us offer to her our pen , that it may obtain that rich benediction from her , by which ( after the manner of the rod of aaron which devoured the rods of the magicians ) it may resist all the endeavours of gain-sayers , and like to that , flourish ; whilst the other rods , brought by rebellious controvertists , wither away : lastly , that like that in the tabernacle of the covenant , it may be perpetually preserved in the church , as a witness of the truth of god. these very ample blessings bestowed on the rod , we ask of thee ( o virgin ) coming to thee a with great affiance ; for thou performing these things , crownest no other than thine own gifts . the seventh tome endeth on this fashion . go to now b let us give thanks to god , as we are wont , for the finishing of this seventh tome of annals ; and let us offer the work in like manner to mary the mother of god ; that by whose help it was begun and perfected , by the merits of the same it may be rendred spotless , worthy the divine aspect ; it being justly refusable in respect of the imperfection of the author that offers it . [ having said this , and added a complaint of his troubles and interruptions in the writing of this volume , which he calleth his benoni ; he thus proceeds . ] one thing more only i have to ask ; that seeing these very unquiet , sad , lamentable , fearful and dangerous things have happened to me , o mother of god , not without c your providence ; you your self would daily bring help to me , journeying in a slippery path , exposed to great danger , and every moment in hazard of losing eternal salvation ; and give protection to an unsetled man. — in the conclusion of the eighth tome , he giveth thanks to some martyrs , together with the virgin d ; offering to them all his tomes in gratitude , and which was much more , his very self . of the ninth he saith e that he brought it to an end by the favour of god , and the aid of the virgin who helped him by her prayers . in the end of the tenth f , he prayeth to god for eternal happiness by the intervention of the mother of god with the father for him ; further beseeching him that she which always helped him in his work , might be the conciliatrix of eternal reward in the glory of the blessed . in the end of the eleventh tome a , he acknowledgeth that the entireness of his net , after his having cast it so often , that the continuance of his strength fresh and green in his old age ; that all this was from the grace of abisag , their shunamite , cherishing his aged bones ; to wit the most holy and pure virgin , favouring the work begun and taking care of , and happily promoting all his affairs . — last of all he endeth in a like note , but a little lower and sweeter than that with which he begun and continued his perorations ; for he concludeth his whole work of twelve tomes b with an humble supplication to the “ blessed virgin : and therein he beseecheth , that by her means he might be made worthy to obtain that benediction from the father of lights by which he might be partaker of an eternal inheritance through the grace and mercy of jesus christ. the whole of this which i have cited , and cited at such length , by reason of that credit which this author hath obtained under the papacy ; the whole , i say , of it , both beginning , middle , and end , representeth the virgin as a patroness ; and as one who had prevailed with god to commit to her care baronius and his labours , as her especial province . he owneth god and christ as the fountains of grace ; but he supposeth her the conduit , conveying them to himself . on her he trusteth ; to her he offereth solemn , and repeated thanks . and though he often mentioneth her prayers for him ; yet it appeareth by the tenor of his other expressions , and of the common roman doctrine , that he meaneth not barely them ; but the guardianship which by them she had from the beginning obtained of god in behalf of the annalist . if then according to his own belief he was divinely assisted in this great work , these twelve labours of the roman hercules ( which others , considering the partiality of the author , believe to have been undergone more by the aids of the court of rome , than those of heaven ) ; if , i say , he was assisted from above ( which is his own persuasion ) ; and god , who is wont to dictate to christians , rather by his spirit , than by his angels , much less by his saints , did give him immediately the understanding , memory , strength , and other abilities by which he wrote ; has he not then sacrilegiously kept back a very great part of that honour which was wholly due to god , and ought to have been devoted to him , and then paid it in wrongful and idolatrous manner unto the blessed virgin ? now what think you was the occasion of this excess of marian-zeal ? why , the mother of caesar baronius ( as they tell us * ) going when big of him , to the temple of the virgin , felt the babe , like a second john the baptist , leap in her womb . as soon as he was born , she offer'd him to the patronage of the same blessed virgin. when he was two years old , and afflicted with a very dangerous disease , she pray'd to her three days , and then received him restor'd from the very article of death , together with a voice saying to her , be of good comfort , your son shall not dye . baronius mindful of this benefit , always honour'd the virgin with singular observance ; and he marked his books , his tables , his images , every thing with a device , which signifies caesar servus mariae ? and at his death ( which it seems was on saturday , our ladys weekly day ) he expressed much devotion towards her ; and in his last agony kiss'd her image with the greatest piety of mind . the devotion of lipsius is so like to that of the cardinal baronius , that i may not improperly here subjoin it . in the first chapter a of his virgo hallensis , he calleth blessed mary the tutelar goddess of halla ; that is , of halle in heinalt , seated on the seine ; and he professeth , that from his youth he had devoted himself to her worship , and chosen her as his patroness and guide in all the dangers and molestations of his whole life . in his second chapter b he maketh to his patroness this supplication : grant to me , o my goddess , whom i contemplate as present in my mind , that what i have piously design'd , i may happily accomplish . in his sixth chapter c he mentions a miraculous victory obtain'd by that city over her enemies , who had with powerful arms entred into her . and this deliverance he supposeth to be wrought by the patronage of the virgin , who was invok'd . and he accordingly taketh notice of the praises of heart and voice d , which every preserved citizen did offer to that goddess . in his eleventh chapter e he telleth how a man possessed with the devil , was , by this tutelar deity ( as he there calls her ) , delivered from so wicked and dangerous an inhabitant . and after having told his story , he falleth to his prayers in this manner : o powerful , o merciful goddess ! defend us also from this subtil serpent . and thou , who didst once bruise his head in thy conception , assist us so effectually , that his tail may neither scourge us , nor throw us on the ground . then , after having ended his legend consisting of divers miracles wrought at her shrine , he falls again to his prayers in his thirty-sixth or last chapter ; and this is the form of his address a . o goddess ! thou art the queen of heaven , of the sea , of the earth , above whom there is nothing but god. thou moon ( next to him the sun ) whom i implore and invocate ; protect and take care of us both in publick and private . thou hast seen us these forty years tossed in a publick storm : o mary ! calm this tumultuous sea — he concludeth with a poetical consecration of a silver-pen b to her , who had ( as he believ'd ) been the author and finisher of his studies . now then , such kind of worshippers do in part revive one degree of the idolatry of the gentiles , who divided places , persons , things , actions , subject to the supreme god , amongst sempiternal or canoniz'd spirits . the chief architect of the egyptian pharos , put upon his workmanship this inscription , sostratus of gnidos , the son of dexiphanes , to the gods protectors for the safeguard of sailers . what , now , is the difference betwixt this inscription and one made by a papist in honour of s. nicholas , upon the little church nigh the wurbel in the danube ? none sure , unless it be this , that the first is in veneration of a christian saint , the other of good genii : for we are told by those whose credit is as unquestionable as their learning c , and who have been upon the place , that the church is dedicated to s. nicholas , that he is the supposed patron of that dangerous whirlpool in that river ; that he is believ'd to take peculiar care of such as pass that way ; and that a little boat comes to you as soon as you are out of danger , and receives what acknowledgment you please , or what perhaps you may have promised to give when you were in some fear . it may be god alone calmeth those waves , at least without a saint ; and s. nicholas receiveth much of the acknowledgment ; the whole , possibly , from the common men of the vessel , whom danger teacheth to pray , whilst superstitious ignorance misleadeth them from praying aright . martinus de roa , though a learned jesuit , and a spaniard , does openly declare the nature of this romish practice ; he does not seek to give a false colour to it , but he shews it as a practice which plainly agree●…th with the worship of the gentiles . he speaketh out , saying a that it is a rite amongst them to call upon the tutelar deity of the nation ( as upon st. james in spain , ) at the beginning of their battels . and this custom he parrallels with that of the macedonians in justin , who in their battels called sometimes upon alexander , and sometimes upon philip , as upon gods ; invoking their aid for the success of their armes . and then he subjoyneth the practice of the germans , who ( as tacitus reporteth ) joyned not in fight with their enemies , 'till they had solemnly prayed to hercules . this kind of worship the pope continueth to encourage , by setting up new saints , as tutelar spirits , in his canonizations of them . thus for inscance sake , pope clement the tenth confirmed the decree of pope clement the ninth , in which st. rosa is created patroness of the city lima b , the chief town and the archiepiscopal seat in peru ; and principal protectress of the same kingdom of peru , and of all the provinces and kingdoms of the terra firma of all the peruvian america , and of the philippine islands . and this it seems was done to this end c , that an addition might be made to the veneration of that saint : and that through her intercession the people of those parts might the more strongly hope for patronage or protection . so s. thomas de villanova is canonized by alexander the seventh d , who whilst he registreth him in the calendar of his gods , useth this exhortation : wherefore let us go with boldness to the throne of the divine mercy , praying with heart and voice , that s. thomas may preside over christian people by his merit and example ; that he may assist them with his prayers and patronage ; and that in the time of wrath he may become their reconciliation . such deities the papacy setteth up ; and nothing is more common than for the people of that church to fall down and worship them in that quality . neither can travellers shun such statues and inscriptions , as give them advertisement of this worship of tutelar saints . such an inscription is that at brussels betwixt the quire and the sacristy of the cathedral e : the monument is dedicated by maximilian duke of bavaria , and archbishop and elector of colen , to the immaculate virgin , and to s. lambert , as to the tutelar deities of that church and countrey . s. michael also is the special protector of that city , and upon the top of its townhouse stands his statue in brass . who can go into lentini , and not have notice of the three french brethren and martyrs , alsio , philadelfo , and cirino , venerated there as its patrons and guardians f ? who travelleth to utopolis or s. veit , and seeth not the four chappels on the four hills of s. veit , s. ulrick , s. laurence , s. helena ? or heareth not of st. veit , or st. faith , as of one that cureth the dancing-sickness known by the name of chorea sancti viti ? who entreth paris and heareth not st. geneviefve celebrated as the protectress of it ? and is not she called the guardian of france , and the north-star a of her imperial city ? who understandeth the ancient estate of england , and is ignorant of the veneration which it hath had for its presumed patron st. george ? so great it was , that when certain holy-days were abrogated in the reign of henry the eighth , the feast of st. george b was excepted , as well as those of the apostles and our lady . who crosseth the ocean , and visiteth the mexican america , and observeth not that st. joseph is made the patron of new spain ? the synod of mexico confirmed at rome , hath declared him to be such c , and given particular order for the celebration of his holy-day . i am not able to recount to how many places , persons and things the protection of the holy virgin is said to extend * . the fancy of the eloquent jesuit rapine hath made her d to preside over clouds and tempests e , over tillage and pasturage f , over flocks and herds . to her as queen of heaven , the author of the monument of galeacius caracciolus g , dedicateth it in the quality of a marble-chappel , in thankful acknowledgment , of the many favours she conferred on that marquis , and of the many evils from which she secured him . at rome in the church mariae s. angeli , the inscription seemeth to install the virgin into that presidency over it , which before was held by some god of the gentiles h . a like change is insinuated in the inscription found in the aedes martis , turned into the temple of st. martina i . now what seemeth all this but refined heathenism ? when men trust in st. hubert as the patron of hunters ; do not they the like to those who trusted in diana the goddess of that game , and the patroness of forests ? upon which account she was of old the celebrated deity of this island , which then was a kind of continued wood k . when they apply themselves in a strom to the virgin mary ; do not they the like to those who in perils by water called on venus l ? when they put confidence in st. margaret , or the virgin mary m as the patronesses of women in travail , and children in infancy , do they not follow their pattern who relied on diana n , statina * or cunina o in such cases ? when they pay their vows to the virgin for the safety of their children , do they not like bassa or sulpitia in the inscriptions of gruter p , who paid theirs in the same case to lucina or juno ; and to castor and pollux q ? and is there so vast a difference betwixt the devotion of a heathen conquerour who offened his sword to mars ; and of henry of valois , who obtaining a great victory over the rebels in flanders , consecrated to the virgin the horse on which he charged , and the arms with which he so successfully fought ? on both sides here is confidence in a coelestial creature as a substitute of the supreme god , and thanks most solemnly paid to it . only for the objects , the one sort of them is christian , the other pagan ; but both kinds were reputed divine , and worthy , by their adorers ; both were judged coelestial magistrates a and senators b , as the saints are called by horstius , and the catechism of trent . and by the intercession of such senators , is often meant in the church of rome , their prevalence with god in executing the office of their patronage . hence they sometimes pray to god c , that the glorious intercession of the ever-blessed and glorious virgin mary may protect them , and bring them to life everlasting . the particular instances of the romish patrons and patronesses are too many to be here historically spoken of . i find enough of them together in the learned homily against the peril of idolatry , and with them i will at present content my self . what , i pray you , saith that homily d , be such saints with us to whom we attribute the defence of certain countries , spoiling god of his due honour herein , but dii tutelares of the gentile idolaters ? such as were belus to the babylonians and asfyrians ; osiris and isis to the egyptians ; vulcan to the lemnians ; and to such other . what be such saints to whom the safe-guard of such cities are appointed , but dii praesides with the gentiles idolaters ? such as were at delphos , apollo ; at athens , minerva ; at carthage , juno ; at rome , quirinus , &c. what be such saints to whom , contrary to the use of the primitive church , temples and churches be builded , and altars erected ; but dii patroni of the gentiles idolaters ? such as were in the capitol , jupiter ; in paphus-temple , venus ; in ephesus-temple , diana ; and such like . — when you hear of our lady of walsingham , our lady of ipswich , our lady of wilsdon , and such other ; what is it but an imitation of the gentiles idolaters ; diana agrotera , diana coriphea , diana ephesia , &c. venus cypria , venus paphia , venus gnidia ? — terentius varro sheweth that there were three hundred jupiters in his time . there were no fewer veneres and dianae . we had no fewer christophers , ladies , and mary magdalens , and other saints . — they have not only spoiled the true living god of his due honour in temples , cities , countries and lands , by such devices and inventions as the gentiles idolaters have done before them ; but the sea and waters have as well especial saints with them , as they have had gods with the gentiles ; neptune , triton , nereus , castor and pollux , venus , and such other ; in whose places be come st. christopher , clement , and divers others , and specially our lady to whom shipmen sing , ave maris stella . neither hath the fire scaped the idolatrous inventions ; for instead of vulcan and vesta , the gentiles gods of the fire , our men have placed st. agatha , and make letters on her day for to quench fire with . every artificer and profession hath his special saint , as a peculiar god. as for example , schollars have st. nicholas , and st. gregory ; painters , st. luke ; neither lack soldiers their mars , nor lovers their venus , amongst christians . all diseases have their special saints , as gods the curers of them . the pox st. roche , the falling-evil st. cornelis , the toothach st. appolin , &c. neither do beasts and cattel lack their gods with us ; for st. loy is the horseleach , st. anthony the swineherd , &c. where is gods providence and due honour in the mean season ? who saith , the heavens be mine , and the earth is mine , the whole world and all that in it is . i do give victory , and i put to flight . of me be all counsels and help , &c. except i keep the city , in vain doth he watch that keepeth it . thou lord shalt save both men and beasts . but we have left him neither heaven , nor earth , nor water , nor country , nor city , peace nor war , to rule and governn , either men nor beasts , nor their diseases to cure . — we join to him another helper , as [ if ] he were a noun adjective ; using these sayings : such as learn , god and s. nicholas be my speed . such as neese , god help , and s. john. to the harse , god and s. loy save thee — the papists have read such discourses as these ; and they endeavour to abate the force of them by the following evasion : the reasonableness of making addresses to one particular saint a rather than another in some particular occasions , will appear from the consideration upon which it is usually done : and that is not a division of offices among the saints , every one of whom may equally intercede without entrenching upon the propriety of another ; and their intercession may be implored by us in all kinds of necessities whatsoever : but it is grounded upon a reflexion which the suppliant makes either upon some signal grace which shined in that saint above others , as patience , humility , chastity , &c. ( for which reason the church saith of every one of them , non est inventus similis illi , there was no other found like to him ) or upon the particular manner of his suffering martyrdom , or some particular miracle , or such like remarkable passage in his life and actions , which may serve to excite the hope of the suppliant to obtain redress by means of his intercession , in a case which he conceives to bear a sutableness and conformity to something acted or suffered by him . now the efficacy of prayer being grounded on hope , and it being natural to us to hope for redress where others have found it , or where it may more reasonably be expected , by reason of some particular qualification we apprehend in the person to whom we address ; it is manifest , that as the abovesaid reflexion serves to erect our hope , so also it conduceth to the end of prayer , that is , the obtaining of what we pray for . hence it is , that although all the divine attributes are really one and the same indivisible perfection in god ; yet for pardon we flye to his mercy ; for knowledg , to his wisdom ; for protection , to his power , &c. and s. paul assigns the remission of our sins to the passion of christ ; but our justification ( by which we rise to newness of life ) to his resurrection . he was a delivered to death for our sins , and rose again for our justification . the reason whereof he gives in the epistle to the hebrews , c. . v. , where he saith , that it behoved christ to be made like his brethren in all things , that he might be a merciful and faithful high-priest in things pertaining to god , to make reconciliation for the sins of the people : for , saith he , in that he suffered himself , being tempted , he is able to succour them that are tempted : that is , by what he suffered himself , he is made prompt and ready to succour those who are in affliction and temptation . for it was true even of his most sacred humanity , what the poet out of the very nature of humanity made another say , hand ignara mali , miseris succurrere disco ; that by his own sufferings he had learnt how to compassionate the sufferings of others . and this was laid down by s. paul as a powerful argument to perswade the hebrews to put their hope in him for their reconciliation with god , because he was so particularly qualified and fitted for that work , by what he had suffered . why then may not a like consideration of the fitness or qualification of one saint above others , as so conceived by us ( either for his eminent perfection in such a particular virtue , or some other remarkable passage in his life ) , be taken as a motive to invite us to address for the obtaining what we stand in need of , to his intercession before others ? the scripture , we know , to persuade us to patience in adversity , bids us b reflect upon the sufferings of job ; and why may not his eminence in that virtue , as it serves for an example of our imitation , be also taken as a particular motive of our having recourse to his intercession ? and when jacob blessed the two sons of joseph , ephraim and manasses , among so many angels whose assistance he might have implored , he begs for that angel in particular to be their guardian , who had delivered him out of all his troubles a . the angel ( said he ) who delivered me from all evils , bless these children : and why , but because he thought that he who had been so careful to deliver him , would be as careful to deliver them ? and upon this account , were i in danger of being shipwrackt , i should sooner flye to the intercession of s. paul , who had saved by his prayers all his fellow-passengers in the ship from being drowned , than to another who had never been in the like danger . behold here , then , the crime of catholicks in calling particularly upon the angel raphael when they travel , because he protected young tobias in his journey ; upon s. roch against the plague , because his charity was signal in assisting those who were infected with it ; upon s. nicholas against tempests , because he saved some by his prayers , who in a storm at sea invoked him , while yet alive ; upon s. apollonia for the tooth-ach , because all her teeth were struck out for her free confession of christ ; and upon s. michael and s. george against enemies , because the latter was by profession a soldier , and a most valiant martyr ; and the former is recorded in scripture b to be the protector of the people of god. this excuse hath much more of ingenuity in it , than that of alexander hales c . because ( said he ) we miserable men , or some of us at least , are more affected sometimes towards some certain saint , than towards our lord himself ; therefore god , having compassion on our misery , is pleased that we should pray unto his saints . as if god would indulge us in so unworthy and irreligious a passion . the former excuse ( i say ) is much more plausible , yet it is invalid , and may be shewn to be so , by these following considerations . first , it is acknowledged that christs sympathy is one motive of our trust when we pray to him ; but it is the divinity which he possesseth , and not the infirmity which he suffered , which inviteth us at this distance to call upon him . secondly , if there were as much ground to think that the saints know our particular states , as there is to believe their charity for the church in general , it might not be improper to apply our selves to such , whose former circumstances do best befit our present ones . thirdly , though the sympathy of the saint be a direction to him or her , how doth this direct mariners to the virgin mary in a tempest ? she was never , that they are assured of , in peril by sea ; neither know they that she ever crossed a greater water than that of jordan or nilus . if they take their ground from the derivation of the name mary , as signifying ( saith a xaverius ) ruler of the sea ; on what an uncertain foundation do they build ? nothing is more apt to deceive us , than fanciful etymology . and for this word , xaverius confesseth it may signifie high , or the bitterness of the sea also . and l. de dieu hath shewed , b that it may as well denote a drop of the sea. if they answer with this author , that not only the sympathy of the saint , but some miracle wrought after supplication , exciteth our hope , and encourageth to pray ; that subterfuge shall be anon consider'd . in the mean time i only put this short question , what was it that excited the first man that pray'd to such a saint ? not a miracle in answer of prayer ; for the first prayer is sure before its answer . fourthly , though many saints have a like sympathy , and may by license of the roman church be allowed to be prayed to apart or together * : though they do not shut these coelestial patrons out of one anothers provinces , but suffer st. james to be prayed to in england , and st. george in spain ; yet this doth not hinder the impiety of praying to any of them as subordinate rulers under god. they are still patrons , though some of them be a kind of joint-patentees ; and one or other of them has in all cases such power by commission , that little motive is left for immediate application unto god ; and much trust and gratitude due to him is paid to these delegates . fifthly , the angel whose protection jacob implored for the safeguard of ephraim and manasses , as having had himself experience of his aid , was a diviner spirit than either michael or gabriel , even the logos of god. this is the opinion of novatianus , declared once and again in his a book of the trinity . this is the opinion of many of the fathers , whose testimonies shall be produced in my fourteenth chapter . at present it may suffice to bring forth that plain one of st. cyril of alexandria in his thesaurus b . an angel is said to have striven with the patriarch jacob , and this divine writ testifies ; but the holy man retaining him , said , i will not let thee go unless thou bless me . now this angel was god ; which the words of the patriarch shew , whilst he saith , i have seen god face to face . him ( appearing to him as an angel ) he desireth to bless the children . and a while after he thus discourseth . when esau his brother designed against him , he did not invoke an angel , but god , saying , take me , o lord , out of the hands of my brother esau , for i stand in fear of him . sixthly , the story of raphael protecting tobias is not found in canonical scripture . but if it be , notwithstanding , a true report , this being a peculiar favour of god in an extraordinary case , it doth not encourage men in all emergencies to pray for the like , without a promise from god. he sendeth not all to be our guides , who may sympathize with our estate . the angels who never sustain'd infirmity , do not so ; neither doth the ministration of an angel argue that of a saint . nor doth it follow that god doth use such ministrations so frequently and visibly under the gospel , as under the law , in which dispensation his shechinah , in which the angels attended , was shewn often on earth . seventhly , if st. roch once assisted the infected , it is not proved thence that god sends him where-ever he sends that heavy judgment . and how appeareth it that he ever helped at a distance in that dreadful sickness , which requires a domine miserere ? why , because ( say they ) the infected prayed to him , and were healed . but the event is not always the effect ; and god in pursuance of his own greater and mysterious ends , doth often answer the matter of the requests of the superstitious and the wicked . and often there are other ordinary second causes , which men fancy by the event to have been more extraordinary and divine . they who among the heathens prayed to lavina for her assistance in a cleanly cheat , might impute the effect unto their goddess , though she never understood them , and their own cunning brain and slight of hand brought the couzenage to pass with such undiscovered art. s. austin will furnish us with a better instance , a matter of fact . in his eleventh chapter de curâ pro mortuis , he telleth of one eulogius a master of rhetorick in carthage , who was perplexed with a knotty place in the rhetoricks of cicero , which he was next day to interpret to his schollars : and in that night , saith the father , i interpreted unto him in his dream , that which he understood not . nay , not i , but my image , i being wholly ignorant of this affair , and being so far beyond the sea , doing or dreaming some other thing , and being wholly careless of his cares . the mans brain was heated , and amongst other images that of s. austin came in his mind , he being then the fam'd schollar in africa ; and his dreams ( as often it happens ) were luckier than his waking thoughts ; and he imputed to st. austin that which followed his apparition in the brain , though that was not the cause of it . eighthly , if st. michael was once sent to succour the jews , it is not to be thence concluded , that saints do the like , or that he himself hath always the same office , in reference to the quality or the object of it ; or that angels appear alike under the dispensation of the logos substituted without union to manhood , and that of him incarnate , and installed king of the world ; nor do all the learned think that by michael is always meant an angel. in sum , the romanists are not so much charged with idolatry , for praying to such saints as most sympathize ( in their conjecture ) with their present conditions ; as for trusting in them as such whom god hath impower'd to succour all christians in equal circumstances and like places ; and for returning the thanks to them which are oftenest due to the immediate providence of the omnipresent god. if they do not apply themselves to them as such , why do they use such forms in their prayers ? why do they give them the name of patron , and guardian-saints ? why do they as well call on the virgin , as on the highest angel for guardianship ? why do the popes in their many bulls declare them to be patrons of such places , and helpers in such particular cases ? why are the people directed in the choice of them , and advis'd to an especial affiance in them a ? why is there mention in their authors , of their appearance in person to their supplicants , with present aid , and further assistance ? this is done by bernardin de bustis , and recited in a manual printed at paris with approbation b , in a discourse of the seven joys of the virgin ; to wit ( in their account ) her annunciation by the angel ; her visitation by elizabeth ; the glorious birth of christ ; the adoration of the magi ; the retrieve of her son in the temple ; the appearance of christ after his resurrection ; and her happy departure and assumption into heaven . with these joys , saith bernardin , st. thomas of canierbury , a devout servant of the virgins , did every day salute our lady . to him ( as he proceeds ) she one day appeared when he was at his prayers ; and she assured him , that his saluting her with her seven joys on earth [ which sometimes were * said to be but five ] was very agreeable to her ; but that the saluting of her with her seven joys in heaven , [ to wit , her exaltation above the angels ; her illuminating paradise as the sun does the world ; the reverence paid her by angels , archangels , thrones and dominions ; her being the conveyer of all the graces which christ bestoweth ; her sitting at the right hand of her son ; her being the hope of sinners in such sort , that all who praise and reverence her , are by the father recompenced with eternal glory ; the augmentation of her graces and favours in paradice until the day of judgment ] was acceptable to her in a higher degree . and she promised to him , and to others also who should daily repeat these salutations , adjoining to each an ave maria , that she would be present with them at the hour of death ; and that for her sake they should be saved . in which instance we have the patronage of the virgin asserted , and also a proof of the imposture of such appearances , from the story it self , which representeth not a blessed saint ascribing all glory to the great god , but a vain perfon delighted with the unjust flatteries of her self . this , then , is the way in which i conceive the church of rome giveth away a degree of the honour of god the father ; to wit , by her disposal of the government of the world , though in subordination to his supremacy , unto angels and saints , without any sufficient declaration from him , that he hath been willing so to prefer them ; and by her worshipping of them in that quality which her own imagination hath enstated them in . i am next to consider how the church of rome doth by such estimation and worship , entrench on the divine honour with respect to christ as mediator . god hath not owned any substitute besides his son , who hath all power given to him , being as god-man most capable of it . and though the church of rome doth acknowledg christ to be the author of salvation , and the supreme patron and mediator ; yet still it doth entrench upon his honour , in its worship of saints , three several ways . first , more particularly , in that worship which is given to the virgin. in the second place , more generally , in the worship given to so many saints and angels . thirdly , in the frequency of the worship given , both to the virgin , and to the other heavenly spirits . first , the honour of christ is particularly abated in the customary worship of the blessed virgin. abated , i say , not quite removed . for the prayers to her are still per dominum , through christ her son [ though it seemeth sometimes to be intimated ( as in the monstra te esse matrem , shew thy mother-hood , in the hymn ave maris stella ) that she can command his answers ] . and when god is invoked by her merits , her merits are supposed to be derived from his a . but an abatement there is of christs honour , by that supereminent advancement which is given to her by the practice of that church , without any declaration contrary to it . for that church doth set her , as solomon did his mother , in the throne with himself , though on that hand which signifies that he is still the supreme . now it is manifest that honour is diminished , both where it is equally shared , and where a second keepeth not distance , but doth obtain a point next to the first . for from degrees of power and distance , arise degrees of honour ; and a prince that sitteth alone in the chair of state , is thereby in possession of higher honour , than he who hath a second sitting next him , though on the less honourable hand . and accordingly it was esteemed a defect in policy , both through the occasion given by it of being supplanted , and through the diminution it made of supreme honour ( of which each degree is a degree of power ) , when any princes in the roman empire [ such as aelius adrianus , and antoninus the philosopher ] admitted seconds to sit with them in the throne of government , though themselves reserved still the first place , and remained , as it were , the heads of the empire . now it is the practice of the church of rome to celebrate the virgin as a kind of co-ruler with her son ; to salute her ( as we heard but now from the office of her seven allegresses ) as a queen on the right hand of christ in his throne . the scripture hath in it this prophecy of the messiah a , there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of jess , and a branch , or flower , shall grow or rise out of his roots . hierom xaverius hath wrested this place , even from the sense of the vulgar translation ; and he thus readeth it in his persic gofpel b : a true branch shall rise out of the root of jesse , and out of that branch a flower shall be born : misapplying the first to the virgin , and the second to christ , whilst both are spoken of him . to this misinterpretation he might be led by the hymn in the breviary c , which saluteth her by the title of the holy root . and it is evident by the psalter of bonaventure , which is known to turn lord into lady , throughout the psalms ( not omitting to travest that place of , the lord said unto my lord ; into , our lady said unto my lord , sit thou on my right hand ) ; and by salazar , who in his commentary on the proverbs interpreteth wisdom of the virgin ; that the marians would scrue up the sense of the old testament into the assertion of a kind of coequality of the virgin with christ. hence baronius himself calleth her the ark , in one place d ; and in another e , the tabernacle . the things relating to christ under the new testament , are equally perverted by this inordinate devotion to that virgin , who cannot give those a welcome reception , who with such affront to her son , make their court to her . as the scripture mentioneth the nativity of christ celebrated by a quire of angels , so doth the roman church observe the nativity of the virgin , from a story of melody heard from heaven by a devout man in a desart , on her birth-day . hierom xaverius f hath set down this story for gospel among the indians ; and innocent the fourth , upon that report , caus'd the dav to be sacred . as christs triumphant ascension is spoken of in the scripture , and observed in our church ; so in the legends of rome there is frequent mention of her assumption , and it is in that church celebrated with pomp . before that office she is pictur'd , in the missal lately printed at paris a , ascending with a glory about her head , in equal shew of triumph with christ. as christ is said in the te deum , to have opened the kingdom of heaven to all believers ; so is the virgin called by them , the gate * and the hall-gate of heaven b . as he is called gods beloved son , so is she called gods beloved daughter c . as christ is said to be exalted above all things in heaven and earth ; so is the virgin called the queen of heaven , and sometimes the queen of the heavens , in reference to the angels d , and sometimes the queen of heaven and earth e . nay the jesuit rapine hath enstated her in that empire without any mention of the king her son as above her f . as christ is acknowledged by christians to be the head of the church , and the only mediator and advocate ; so the virgin is stil'd in the synod of mexico g , the universal patroness and advocatress . as the day has been divided into several portions in which devout people have prayed to god and christ ; so seven canonical hours have been appointed for the worship of the virgin h . as god and christ have the sunday sacred to them , so in the roman church the virgin hath saturday i . on that day therefore , saith augustine wichmans * , more requests of miserable mortals are sealed by her the chancelaress of the greatest king , in the court of heaven , than on all the other days of the week , though put together , [ the lords day not excepted . ] on that day [ rather than on our lords , ] martin navarre , and lewis the eleventh of france , desired to die * . as it is said of the father , that no man cometh to christ except he draw him . so it is said of the virgin , by augustine wichmans * , who calleth her the treasuress of graces , that no man cometh to her son , unless she draw him by her most holy aids . as in the litany , the father , son , and holy ghost , three persons and one god are invoked ; so in the next place , they pray thrice to the virgin , saying k , holy mary pray for us ; holy mother of god pray for us ; holy virgin of virgins pray for us . other saints , as also angels , have there but one compellation . the jesuit canisius in his manual for catholicks l , hath made up his fifteenth exercise of three litanies , of which the third is that of the missal . but the first is the litany of christ , who in it is addressed to in fourty-four compellations : and the second is the litany of the virgin , who hath just so many , and these amongst them : thou cause of our joy ! thou seat of wisdom ! thou ark of the covenant ! thou gate of heaven ! thou refuge of sinners ! thou comforter of the afflicted ! thou help of christians ! thou queen of patriarchs , prophets , apostles , martyrs , confessors , virgins , all saints . as in the bible the lord hath one hundred and fifty psalmes , so ( saith the pope's bull * ) the lady hath an hundred and fifty salutations in her rosary , which was therefore at first called her psalter . as christ is the lord in whom the church hopeth ; so the virgin is called in the roman offices m , the only hope of sinners . as christ is said to be in scripture , the life ; so the virgin is called by the marians , the mother of life a . as devout christians commend their souls , when they leave this world , into the hands of christ ; so these marians commend theirs into the hands of the virgin , being taught a form of so doing b . and they tell us , that upon this account c the worship of the virgin is chiefly to be commended , that she is always present with her clients in the agony of death , as a faithful patroness and mother . this is said by horstius , who immediately crys out thus in a pang of marian devotion , “ o how many hath she snatched out of the jaws of death ! o how many hath she restored to “ the favour of her son , and unto heaven ! such another suppliant was the late jesuit labbee , who when he was dying , applied those words to the virgin , which are used of christ d . i need not here add the litany added to the psalter of bonaventure e , in which our lady , instead of god , is desired to have mercy , to deliver us from all evil , and from particular evils in such forms as this : from the anger of god , from despair , pride , luxury , good lady deliver us . that which i have mentioned before this is such hyperdulia , or excess of veneration , that by ascribing too much to a particular saint , it diminisheth the honour of our common saviour . thus it was not from the beginning ; but the superstitious world hath departed from the first measures of the reverence due to the virgin , and run into this insufferable extreme . and how this has come to pass , one of that church , and one of the most judicious and disinteressed amongst them , has faithfully told us * . after that the impiety of nestorius had divided christ , making two sons , and denying him to be god , who was born of the blessed virgin ; the church , to inculcate the catholick truth in the minds of the faithful , made mention of her in the churches as well of the east as of the west , with this short form of words , in greek , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in latin , maria mater dei ; that is , mary the mother of god. this being instituted only for the honour of christ , was by little and little communicated also to the mother , and finally applied to her alone . so when images began to multiply , christ was painted as a babe in his mothers arms , to put us in mind of the worship due unto him even in that age : but in progress of time , it was turned into the worship of the mother without the son , he remaining as an appendix in the picture . the writers and preachers , especially those that were contemplative , carried with the torrent of the vulgar , which is able to do much in these matters , leaving to mention christ , invented with one accord new praises , epithetes , and religious services ; insomuch that about the year , a daily office was instituted to the blessed virgin , distinguished by seven canonical hours , in a form which anciently was ever used to the honour of the divine majesty : and in the next hundred years the worship so increased , that it came to the heigth , even to attribute that unto her , which the scriptures speak of the divine wisdom . and amongst these invented novities this was one , her total exemption from original sin ; yet this remained only in the breasts of some few private men , having no place in ecclesiastical ceremonies , or amongst the learned . at last about the year , the canons of lions dared to bring it into the ecclesiastical offices . secondly , the honour of christ is diminished by that veneration , though of an inferior nature , which is given to so many angels and saints , as presidents and patrons in the government of the church . it is true , that the honour of a prince is increased by the multitude of his attendants : our church therefore reverently declareth of christ , that ten thousand times ten thousand minister unto him . but delegation of power to many by commission as presidents , and not as angels and messengers , ministers and attendants , is a diminution of honour by cantonizing of power . and he is most absolute , and reserveth most of dependance , and thanks , and trust , and reverence , to himself , who dispatcheth all things by his immediate authority . for commissions cut power into many channels , and import either love of ease , or want of power to execute in person . the roman emperors were , in their dominions , high and mighty potentates , and their vassals flattered them as deities in flesh . but they would have appeared greater still , if they had not cut their empire into its eastern and western parts , and administred affairs by prefects , vicars , counts , dukes , consuls , correctors , presidents and others , executing power by subordinate lieutenancy . and doubtless the praefectus praetorio of italy had many thanks paid him for his favours , without any acknowledgment made to the emperor , though the fountain of his power . in such cases , men look not beyond the state-officer , who befriends them , by virtue of his patent and his derived authority . but they would look to the prince , if he immediately dispensed all honours and favours , though attended with a numerous guard , and employing many messengers and ministring spirits . a caviller would , here , say , that by this argument it may be concluded , that all governours in this world , ecclesiastical and civil ; all princes and magistrates ; all patriarchs , archbishops , bishops , superintendents and presidents , are so many idols , and ordinances dishonourable to god and his son. but judicious men will consider , that the governments on earth are not the patterns of the invisible world . here god ruleth , in this manner , not for his own sake , but for ours , we being mortal men , and needing the aids of men like our selves , whilst we sojourn in this body : and for him to administer immediately to our outward infirmities in this world , were for him to be always grosly incarnate . this conceit of the invisible world as modelled like the visible , hath brought forth that excuse of a voluntary humility in the romish suppliants , who , as if the court of heaven were like that on earth , dare not presume to come immediately to the king , but apply themselves to him by the mediation of some of his officers . a king is but a man , and cannot hear all complaints in person , and redress all grievances . could he do it with the power , and wisdom , and grace , and easie operation of a deity , all might then have immediate access to him , or to him by the prince his son , supposed to be of a like nature and quality . and who , on earth , when he is invited by the monarch himself to apply himself to him immediately , or to him by his son ; addresseth himself to neither , but to some meaner favourite , of whose interest , for the dispatch of his affair , he hath no assurance given him ? thirdly , should we lay aside this consideration of that presidentship and patronage , to which the romanists entitle so many saints ; yet the very frequency used in addresses to them , though by mere request of their praiers for us , would , not a little , tend to the diminution of the honour of god and christ. it is notorious to those who pass the seas in the same bottoms with romish mariners , that those seamen , in a storm , apply not themselves immediately to god , but repeat the hymn , to the holy virgin , of , hail , star of the sea ! to this purpose is that which lipsius telleth a of thirteen men in peril by a tempest , in their passage to antwerp . amongst them , the master , conceiving no hope of saving the vessel , or the lives of the passangers , exhorted them to submit themselves wholly to god , and so to pass to a better state , after the loss of this . but , it seems , one amongst them suggested vows and invocations to the lady of halla ; and his counsel is embraced . straightway ( says he ) a light shone on the vessel , and the tempest ceased , and the vessel arrived at the haven , with loss of goods , but not of the passengers , who repaired to halla , and profesled themselves to owe their life to the virgin , and paid with faithfulness , the vows they had made . it had been more pious , surely , to have thanked god and the virgin , or rather god alone , who , it may be , by other means , or by himself , was their deliverer . but superstitious men judg of causes by the concomitancie of the effects , and not by the virtue which produceth them . and this is not only the fruit of superstition in the rude and ignorant , but in the politest of the ecclesiastics . the very jesuites ( for so did father garnet b at his execution ) afford god the less of their application by being so busied , at their last hour , with their aforesaid , mary , mother of grace , mother of mercy , defend us from the enemy , and protect us in the hour of death : which versicles ( say the composers c of the confession of saxony ) we heard a monk , a professor of divinity , inculcate , very often , to a dying man , without any mention of christ jesus . and it hath been commonly observed , as a great blot in the romish devotions , that they use many ave maria's to one pater noster . [ which collects , by the way , being repeated by them with such careless haste ; the jabbering of any thing , in an indistinct , heedless way , is by us called patering ] . labbe a learned jesuite , though in his sickness he was not forgetful of christ his saviour , yet he mentions the frequency of his addresses to the virgin , during the rage of his feaver d . this a stander by , not knowing his principles , would have judged to have been the effect of his distemper . thus , then , this new marian devotion much diminisheth , and sometimes quite justleth out , the ancient and unquestionable worship of jesus ; as they say , s. ambrose is almost forgotten , already , at milan e , through the newer veneration of s. charles borromee . two things now may be , perhaps , jointly pretended towards the disabling the foregoing discourse ; and i will return a brief answer to them . first , it is taken for confessed , that those to whom the romanists pray as unto patrons and patronesses , are real saints in heaven . secondly , the romanists pretend to prove that god hath declared himself to have conferred such honourable office , place , and power upon these patrons ; by the miracles they have wrought for the behoof of their clients . for the first suggestion ; it is confessed that they worship none but such as have been thought professors of christianity , and such who are reputed to be exalted above either hell or purgatory . notwithstanding this , i dare not avouch the eminent saintship , and glorified estate of all that are canonized . they who read , without partiality , the history of s. thomas archbishop of canterbury , will be inclined to think him put into the kalender by as much mistake , as many other things are put into our vulgar almanacks . i see that , even some of the roman communion , do impute his saintship f rather to the fervour of his zeal , than to the ground of his cause . what can a man that reverenceth god , think of the saintship of st. bernardin of siena , when he considereth of his doctrine , apt to give pain to the modesty of the virgin , almost in heaven it self ? this saint , after a logn comparison betwixt god and blessed mary a , thus ( thus blasphemously ) concludeth . if then we give to each their due , in that which god hath done for man , and which the virgin hath done for god himself ; you see for your comfort , that mary hath done more for god , than god for man ; whence god for the virgins sake , is much obliged to us . methinks by these words he is just such another saint as the author of the conformities b , who writes the parallel of christ and st. francis , and giveth to st. francis , the preheminence . what can a peaceable christian think of the saintship of pope hildebrand , or st. gregory the seventh ? was it not he who imbroiled the world ; who taught * that kings and dukes had their original from those who not knowing god , did by pride , rapines , perfidiousness , murthers , and by almost all manner of wickednesses ( through the instigation of the devil , the prince of this world ) affect to domineer over their equals , or other men , with blind ambition , and intolerable presumption ; who deposed henry the fourth king of the germans , and absolved his subjects from their oath of allegiance , and who endeavour'd to set up a papal monarchy to the disquiet of all nations ? neither is it for the honour of the gospel of peace to saint either pope victor , or pope stephen , who first took upon them to be bishops , or rather censurers , out of the diocess that belonged to them . nor did the ancient church own them as saints or martyrs , as doth the modern one of rome c . interest of state hath oftentimes exalted them to the honour of saints , who had never obtained that high title by their meer piety of life . it hapned tolerably in respect of the person , when thomas aquinas was registred among the saints ; for he was a man of great scholastick learning , and of a mighty zeal in the roman way . but for the true reason of his being canonized , it was secular enough . for pope john the two and twentieth , to depress the franciscans , who did for the most part adhere to the emperour lewis of bavaria , excommunicated by him d , did canonize that doctor and his doctrine directly opposite to that of the followers of st. francis , in the article of the virgins immaculate conception . money also maketh such gods , being first made one it self . and who knows whether it hath not sometimes canonized evil men ? for they whom it thus bribeth , are not usually beyond the outward colour and pretence , respecters of saintship . canonization ( they say ) secureth christians from worshipping the damned instead of the blessed . i wish ( saith the archbishop of a spalato ) that it brings not to pass that very thing which they think it preventeth . in this ( as he goes on ) are the faithful safe , if they reduce their worship to the sole worship of god. and here it is worthy our observation , that gregory the ninth complained on his death-bed of that vicious easiness of his , whereby he listned to the dreams and visions of such who pretended to great sanctity , and occasioned great schisms and disturbances in the church b . he meaneth this in all likelihood , of catherine of siena , by whom he was deluded , and thereby drawn into a desperate schism ; yet she is st. catherine , and her clients are many . it is a strange infallibility with which the pope is invested , if he can judg without error , of the manners of such whom he has seldom in his eye , and who want not their flatterers , whatsoever is their party . it is therefore much safer to own the ancient saints , such as st. chrysostome , and st. ambrose , whom the whole church canonized by its consent , than such modern ones as st. catherine , and st. thomas of canterbury , whom the authority of the pope hath put into the calendar . of some then the saintship is doubtful ; and of some the very existence . for are not the three kings of colen as such , a very fiction ? yet are they worshipped in the roman church , as guardian-saints a . and horstius prayeth them to obtain for him the frankincense of devout prayer , the myrrh of mortification , and the gold of charity . is not think you st. almachius a substantial patron ? yet such a one there is in some roman calendars b , the title of sanctum almanacum , being first by mistake written too low against the first day of january ; yet a saint he must be . and baronius is loth to part with him , and in his martyrology he will have him to be the same with st. telemachus c . but secondly , they will prove their saints to be both saints and patrons by the miracles they work upon invocation d . thus the popes in the bullarium , recite the many miracles wrought by their saints , and then they decree them a place in the calendar . thus the catechism of trent proves the honour of patrocinie e to be due to the saints , by the wonders seen at their sepulchres and relicks . thus baronius f telleth of the saintship and miracles of the abovesaid gregory the seventh , and of a virtue in his garments equal to that in the handkerchers of the primitive christians , mentioned in the acts. thus mr. white g boasteth of the restitution of a leg ( cut off and buried four years ) to a young man who prayed to our lady of pilar ; affirming the story to be sufficient to convert the whole world . to this second allegation many things may be returned . first , when god wrought miracles at the tombs of the martyrs , he wrought them not as answers to them who invoked martyrs , ( for in those times they were honoured as saints , and as soldiers dying in christs cause , and not invoked as patrons ) ; but he thereby encouraged christians in times of persecution , and honoured their religion in the sight of the heathen . secondly , there is no reason to expect such miracles in the setled ages of christian religion , though there might be at the first planting of it . and , thirdly , we have had a long time , a fixed rule from whence we may learn the practical truth and duties of our religion , the word of god. neither hath god left so great a part of his worship as prayer , to be derived from the dreams of the melancholy , or the delusions of satan , or the tales of men who write legends for the advantage of their cause , or other tricks of politick persons . he hath required us in scripture to call upon him through jesus christ : and he hath confirmed this and his whole gospel , by the real miracles of his apostles , after those of his son ; and the gospel being thus fixed , we are not to expect any new discoveries of evangelical duty by the voice or miracle of an angel from heaven , who if he should be in such manner sent to us , with any new doctrinal or moral revelation , ought to be looked on by us as one that trieth our faith , and not as one from whom a new rule of faith or manners is to be received . fourthly , many romish miracles are events not effects . a popish woman is extremely sick in body , she causeth an image of the virgin , as is the fashion now among some romanists in england , to be hanged within her curtains , at the feet of her bed . she invoketh the virgin , and useth physick ; she recovers by art , by strength of nature , by any other way of gods providence ; and the virgin is entituled to the cure , because the event followed their invocation of her . fifthly , many of the miracles , are too light to be ascribed to the saints of heaven . the credulous lipsius confirms the invocation of our lady of halla by stories , some of them very strange , and some very ludicrous . he tells of a boy raised by her from the dead after three days a . of a taylor whom she helped to his needle and thread b , after they had been swallowed down by him . of a soldier who by miracle lost his nose c , having threatned to cut off that of her image . so cantapratanus and antoninus d tell at large , how the virgin mended the hairy shirt of saint thomas of canterbury . sixthly , many of them are mere cheats performed by cunning men under the notion of pious frauds . a priest skilled as much in physick as divinity , knows the sick romanist to whom he is confessor , to need a vomit . he exhorteth him to invoke the holy virgin ; he biddeth him view well her image which he hath put into an antimonial cup ; he adviseth him to drink of that liquor into which her image and her blessing hath infused virtue , and to repeat his devotions to the virgin his patroness . the sick ignorant man obeys , believes him , dischargeth his stomack , and is presently eased . he crys out , a miracle , a miracle ; he is constant to his aves all his days . there are some who know this to be an history , though i have told it in the form of a supposition . seventhly , many wonders and apparitions are the delusions of the devil , and dangerous snares in which he entangleth the commonalty of that church . by this means he often reconciles himself to their favour , and they take him in this disguise for a real angel of light. what other construction can a wise man make of the story in mathew paris concerning the specter said to appear to the earl of cornwall a ? the same hour , saith the reporter , that william rufus fell by the hand of sir walter tyrrell , the earl of cornwall being alone in the forrest , met with a great hairy black goat , carrying the king black and naked , and wounded through the midst of his breast . he adjuring the goat by the holy trinity to tell what this meant , the goat made him this reply : i carry to his doom your king , or rather your tyrant , william rufus . for i am an evil spirit , and an avenger of that malice of his with which he raged against the church of christ ; and i procured his murther . they who believe these legends , and take such apparitions as measures of their faith , will think the devil good-natur'd towards christianity , and an executor of vengeance on the enemies of it ; though in truth he himself is its greatest and most inveterate foe , and wounds it deepest when he strikes at it in the disguise of a friend . the stories concerning the appearance of the virgin to her clients are very numerous , and of them too many represent her in unbecoming postures . and such appear●…nces should rather move the dread and abhorrence , than encourage the invocation of the romanists , being either the images of an unclean brain , or the specters of impure devils . lastly , let not the papists prove their worship of saints , as the heathen did their worship of daemons . and here i end my discourse concerning the worship of saints in the roman church , as patrons , and patronesses , as presidents and lieutenants in the government of the world , with the sense of the judicious and moderate archbishop of spalato a . this in my judgment is the great objection against the invocation of angels , the holy virgin , or other saints whose souls are with god in heaven , that it is in the nighest degree of peril to become religious worship ; for it is out of doubt that the ruder people do religiously invoke the saints ; and that many are internally more affected with religious passion towards the virgin , or some saint , than towards christ himself . for they invoke not a saint as one that prayeth for them , but as the principal helper . neither say they , pray for me ; but help me ; come to my aid ; save me . nor do they express it in words , or understand it in their minds , that these things be done for them by the saints praying for them ; but that the saints themselves do immediately perform these things . and in invocating of them , many wholly devote themselves , all their soul , and and spirit , to the virgin mary and the saints ; and subject themselves wholly to them in spirituals : which is a kind of formed idolatry . now though by this discourse , i may have given offence unto the marians ; or rather said that which will be made an offence by their misconstruction ; i am not jealous that i have at all offended those blessed spirits , if they have knowledg of that which i write . for they are not covetous of undue honour ; but cast those crowns with high indignation under their feet , which are set on their heads to the dishonour of god , by the idolatrous flatteries of foolish men . chap. xi . of the idolatry charged on the papists in their worship of images . and first of the worship of an image of god. it still remaineth that i speak of the worship of images in the roman church , and of that degree of idolatry with which it seemeth to be stained . and for images i will briefly consider , those of the trinity , of god , of christ , of the saints , and under that of christs , the statue of the cross. for the image of the trinity we must not charge either the making or the worshipping of it upon the very constitution of the church of rome , though men of that communion have often done both , and the missals , breviaries , and manuals printed with license in these times a abound with such pictures . formerly that church was very severe against such practices . and pope john the d b arraigned certain people in bohemia and austria , who had painted god the father as an old man , and the son as a young man , and the holy ghost as a dove , as violaters of religion : and he pronounced them anthropomorphites , and condemned some of them to the fire . it seems the modern popes are not so strict : neither did the late printers of the missal at paris , or of the manual of horstius at colen , dread their fire ; they having adorned the copies of those books with such dangerous sculptures . and it should seem by what mr. baxter hath said c , that some among our selves have had a zeal for such pictures ; for he tells of a tumult raised where he had dwelt , upon a false rumour , that the church-wardens were about to obey the parliaments order , in taking down the images of the trinity about the church . but most probable it is , that the zeal of the multitude was ready to defend such images , or paintings in windows , rather as the ornaments of the place , in general ; than , distinctly , as pictures of the mysterious trin-unity . concerning the image of god , i find not now , as in former times , in the publick books of the church of rome , any forms of benediction , by which it should be consecrated ; though there be forms enough of the consecration of crosses , and of the images of christ and his saints . neither doth the council of trent ordain , either the making , or the veneration of the image of god , though it supposeth that it is , sometimes , painted in sacred story , for the use of their people . for it giveth order a that the people be instructed so far , as not to take such a picture for divinity figured . nay the catechism , by decree of that council , speaketh thus , in the explication of their first commandment b . moses , when he would turn the people from idolatry , said to them , you saw no similitude , on the day in which the lord spake to you in horeb from the midst of the fire : which that most wise lawgiver , therefore said , lest , being seduced by error or mistake , they should make an image of the divinity , and so give the honour due to god unto a creature . yet that such images are made , and honoured in the roman church , is very notorious . and it is not long since , here in england , some protestants saw a silver image of god the father , carried in procession , in the passion-week , and venerated with shews of high devotion . the learned , who are cautious , forbear the open defence of such images ; yet they call them judaizers who esteem the worship of god , by them , to be idolatry . and , in their discourses , they seem to favour this practice , so far as the tenderness of that subject will suffer it to be touched , by saying there is no. express text against it a , together with other very kind expressions , which discover their inclination . also the frequency and allowance of such pictures , which under their strict discipline is scarce to be imputed to the liberty of painters and engravers , she weth many ecclesiasticks to be well-willers to them ; [ though not as true representations ; the heresie of the gross anthropomorphites being , as such , renounced by them ] . i instance only in that frontispiece which is put before every of the three parts of the roman pontifical , printed at lyons . there , on the top , in a very wooden cut , is pictured an old man with a globe in his hand , and a glory streaming from all parts of him . on his head there is a triple crown , or miter , and over it this motto , holy-trinity , one god , have mercy upon us . at the bottom , the pope is plac'd , in a like garb , with miter , and key ; and a glory about his head . i do not say that the worship of such images is idolatry , by virtue of the first ( or , with us ) the second command , considered as a mosaical precept . the tables of stone themselves have , long ago , been broken in funder in that sense ; even by the very finger of god : for we are not under the law of moses , but under the covenant of the gospel . but if there be any natural reason in that law , it is eternal and unalterable , like the great author of it . by virtue of that precept , it was ( as many think ) unlawful for any jew to make any protuberant statue , either of god , or demon ; or man , or animal ; and much more to exhibit signs of reverence before them . for the very making of images would have induced that ritual people to the worship of them ; they wanting little besides an outward object to receive the signs of their inward inclination . and , if they had exhibited such signs before an image , the gentiles would have expounded them as a compliance with their worship . of these things god was jealous , and therefore gave command that the monster of idolatry should not ex●…t , so much 〈◊〉 in any seed or embrio of it . and when●…ever men are in such circumstances , that an image is a snare to themselves , and to others an apparent scandal , or a confirmation of them in their evil way ; this command doth oblige them by parity of reason . and , in the days of tertullian a the christians seem to have been nigh such circumstances , being ●…ngled amongst the heathen , and so prone to their works , that ( as he , in an holy indignation , professeth ) there were more lights hung out at the doors of the christians , then at those of the heathen themselves : lights , not for the direction of the passengers , but for the honour of idols . he , therefore , sutably to the exigence of that time , urged the second command with a kind of mosaick strictness ; and declamed against all statuaries and painte●… , as artists of the common-wealth of darkness . but , a reason there is , in that command , which doth always oblige , and the force of it reacheth to mankind . two things , i suppose , are perpetually forbidden by it . the first is , the making of any image of any false god , and the honouring of it , in that quality , when it is made . i say in that quality , for it is not unlawful to carve or paint the images of false gods , by way of story , or in order to the exposing of them in the particulars in which they are ridiculous ; or to value them , if they be ancient , and done by good hands , as rarities of price ; and he hath little of judgment or charity , who condemns every antiquary as an idolater . the genevians have , usually , here , in their houses , the pictures of calvin and luther , and such others , together with those of the pope and the devil , spending vainly , their breath against the light which they had set up . and we suffer , in england , the pictures of false gods in the ovid of mr. sandys , as well as they do , in italy , the images of cartari . the second thing is , the attempting the representation of the true god , and the worshipping of it as his image . i say the attempting of it , to avoid the cavil of the author of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; for he mocketh at this ground of the command a , namely , because gods infinite essence cannot be represented , as a reason which idly establisheth a law from the impossibility of the breaking of it . and he , profanely , compares it to the reason of the monsieur , who forbad his bowyer to make him shafts of a pigs tail , because no shafts could be made of it . and yet it is a reason insisted on by the very catechism of the council of trent above-cited b . but who knows not that such an image was forbidden not properly to be made or perfected , but to be attempted to be made ; because the workman would fail in his attempt , not only to his own shame , but the dishonour of the true god ? the idols of the heathen might be represented : for being nothing but creatures of god , or phantasms , the creatures of their brains ; they were capable of some resemblance . they appeared to the eye , and in a picture in the fancy ; and , consequently , might be imitated by mans art. but the essence of god is like nothing that is finite ; neither like man , nor like the heavens , which latter diodorus most falsly and irrationally maketh to be the god of moses ; adding that therefore he forbad all images of him in humane figure a ; whilst he forbad the likeness of any thing in the heavens , earth , or waters . nor can gods essence so appear by it self , as to shew its very self . we have a notion of god , but no proper idea of him , for that importeth in the force of the word , an object with its imagery perceived in the brain . hence the synod of nice it self did not favour any images of the divinity b . but ere i proceed further in this argument , i think it necessary to premise a distinction of images , and to consider how much or how little of the idol is in each of them . of images then i consider four sorts , taking the liberty to call them images of analogy , of memory , of representation , of presence . by images of analogy , i mean such objects as bear some metaphorical proportion to some excellencies of god , though they be not the proper images , statues , or pictures of them . such an image was that of jupiters , remembred by vignola in his discourse of the five orders in building . he mentioneth there a capital , in which were the images of four eagles instead of stalks ; and instead of fruits and flowers , four jupiters faces with thunderbolts under them . a representation this may be judged of the power , piercing eye , quick execution of will , in their own jove , in the four quarters of the world. such an analogical image of the true god do some papists c esteem , the statue or picture of an aged man , whose years and experience , are apt to signifie the eternity and wisdom of god ; and that of a dove , to signifie his purity and simplicity , in a manner suitable to our conception . in both these instances , i think they are mistaken . daniel ( as shall be shewed in the last chapter ) did not mean the godhead , or the father , by the ancient of days . neither ought his transient vision which had something humane mixt with it , be made a standing-pattern in religion . such visions being impressed on the fancy , could not be there represented without some earthly imagery , which the enlightned reason of the prophet could separate from the diviner part , which is the thing principally intended . now to bring the whole scene with its glory and its imperfection , before the eyes of the people , in gods standing-worship , is to confound in their imaginations , things sacred and secular , and to adulterate their devotion . then for the image of a dove , the text in the gospels proveth no more , than that the spirit imitated the gentle hovering of that bird : and the learned think it did so in the appearance of a bright cloud , hovering with gentle motion over the waters , and the person of our lord baptized in them . it is plain by the words of st. austine b , that he thought it idolatrous to contemplate god in our mind , according to the extent of those expressions which we use in speaking of him . and the like certainly he judged of contemplating god according to dreams and visions , which are partly humane , and partly divine . thus then that great light of africa discourseth : we believe — that [ christ ] sitteth at the right hand of the father . yet thence are we not to think that the father is circumscribed with humane form , so as to occur to our mind contemplating of him as one that has a right and a left hand , or as one sitting with bended knees ; left we fall into that sacriledg for which the apostle condemneth those who turned the glory of the incorruptible god into the similitude of corruptible man. such a statue is not without impiety , erected to god in a christian temple , much more in the heart , where the temple of god is truly situate , if it be purged from earthly concupiscence and error . st. austin then ( as spalatensis a reflecteth on these words ) would have advised that the visions of daniel , and other of that nature , produced by bellarmine , should be contemplated with the mind , and not be pictured , especially in churches ; that they should be resolved into their true signification , and not impressed upon the brain ; lest through the picture of an old man , or dove , the defects of age , wings and bill , possess the imagination . there is danger in using any images of animals , as statues or pictures of god ; for they will be made not images only of analogy , but of representation , by the ignorant ; whilst shape and life are personally set forth . but there is not so great danger in the images of things without life , especially if they be flat pictures , not protuberant statues , nor pictures which the artist hath expressed with roundness . the worse and the more flat the work is , the less danger there is of its abuse . titian hath painted the virgin and the child jesus so very roundly , that ( as sir henry wotton a very good judg both of the pictures and dispositions of men , saith b of it ) a man knows not whether to call it a piece of sculpture of picture . in some kinds of pictures , if there be found analogy , and that analogy be discreetly expressed [ as by the name jehovah , or according to the jewish modesty , adonai , incircled with clouds and rays of glorious light ; ] i know no sin in the making of it , or contemplating in it , in a metaphorical way , some of the perfections of the infinite god , in such manner expressed . a devout man would not put a paper with such an impression , to vile uses : he would think it fitter for his closet than for his chamber of grimaces ; though he would not think it the representation of god , or give it divine honour , by inward estimation , or outward signs . by images of memory , i mean such objects as contain in them no analogy to the divine perfections , nor any pretended representation of them ; but yet are apt to put us in mind of god , being erected as pillars or monuments in places where he has done some great and excellent work . such was the pillar of jacob ; and in the making of such there is no unlawfulness ; nor in exhibiting before them such signs of honour as are proper to be shewed before a monument of divine wisdom , power , or goodness ; unless in times and places where other such statues are erected to false gods , and the erection and honour of them , is by common construction , the mark of their worshippers . such images of memory are often exhibited by god himself . such was the pillar of salt , into which the body of lots wife was converted ; a pillar of remembrance of gods justice , and of admonition to them who look back towards the pollutions which they have escaped . such was the adust earth which solinus speaks of , in those places where the inhabitants of sodom were destroyed by sulphureous flames from heaven : though it was no pillar , yet was it a monument of divine power , and severity towards their unnatural lusts . and he that carves , engraves , or paints these holy histories , may be an useful artist . by images of representation , i mean statues or pictures made by art , with intent to exhibit the likeness of the person . the making and worshipping such images of him , god himself condemneth ; appealing to the world , whether there be any thing in nature to which he can be resembled . such a representation is undue , though made according to the best pattern in the visible world ; and much more if it be made in viler , and as the heathen were wont to do , in the images of priapus and attis a , in immoral figures . and the worshipper who gives to it veneration as to an image of god , does highly dishonour him , by changing his essential glory into such similitudes . and it is not so ignominious for caesar to be painted in the similitude of an ass , or of the worst monster in the sculptures of licetus , as for god to be represented in the pretended likeness of his deity , by david or solomon . such images , therefore , the council of trent expresly disowneth , professing the spirituality , invisibility , and infinity of god , which nothing visible can represent . by such images ( as rightly b s. athanasius ) the mean arts of the painter and statuary are exalted above the maker of this beautiful universe . remarkable , here , is that of pliny , as the sense of a very atheist . it is a weakness ( said he ) to search after the effigies or form of god c . whoever is god ( if there be any other than nature ) he is every-where , all sense , all sight , all hearing , all soul , all spirit , all himself . by images of presence , i mean pictures or statues fram'd and honour'd as places of the especial residence and nighness of the divine power . such i have shew'd the statues of the heathen to be . i know not whether they judg'd them to resemble jupiter or juno , mars or venus ( for the resemblance has been generally such as pleas'd the statuary or painter ) : but it is certain that they esteem'd them shechinah's of god , or daemons . the poet d describeth the roman empire as forsaken by its coelestial patrons , when he representeth them flying from their altars and temples . and the ambrachienses ( in livy e ) complaining in the senate against fulvius nobilior , who had spoil'd their temples and images ; protest with lamentation , that they had no gods left them whom they might adore , and to whom they might present their requests . and the oracle at delphos confess'd to augustus , that it was a vain thing for any thenceforth to repair thither , because a an hebrew child had commanded the daemon back to hell. and sometimes in their superstitious folly , they chain'd down their statues , that their gods might not remove . now such images are condemned by s. paul , who , by telling the gentiles , that god dwelt not in temples made with hands ; did both intimate that they thought them his mansion-houses , and plainly reprove their erroneous practice . the making of such houses or statues of presence to the infinite godhead , which filleth all things , and operateth when and where it pleaseth b , is an high presumption ; a confinement of the deity , or his operation , by our will and fancy . wherefore the worship of them , being the worship of an object for gods shechinah , which is not his shechinah , is idolatrous , or a robbing of the creator , by paying homage to the creature . of the like idolatry are they guilty , who pretend to some kinds of natural magic . they think god has put certain signatures on his creatures , or suffer'd such to be put on them by art , as tokens of his miraculous operation by them . thus did the author of that book which the credulous camillus c believeth to be solomons . he thought that a stone , with the figure of a man sitting on a plough with a little neck , and long beard , with four men lying in his neck , and a fox in one hand , and a vultur in another ; being hanged about ones neck , would be efficacious to the fruitfulness of plantations , and the finding of treasures . now by what other name can we truly call that trust he placed in such figures , than that of superstitious and idolatrous hope , whilst god was no more present at them , than at the most formless stone in the streets , unless by his malediction ? and protestants have a suspition of some such trust ( though not put in an image of the godhead , forbidden at trent ) yet put in the creatures consecrated in the roman church ; whilst they set them apart in such forms as this : bless and sanctifie this creature , that by it [ that is , sure , by thy virtue in it ] devils may repell'd , and tempests scatter'd . chap. xii . of the idolatry charged on the papists in the worship of images . part . . of the worship of the image of christ. thus much , then , of the image of the godhead , or of god the father and its worship . i pass to the consideration of an image , the making and veneration of which , admitteth of more apology , that of the word incarnate . this image has been made , sometimes by way of analogy , and sometimes by way of representation . an analogical picture of christ was made by paulinus , who caus'd him to be figur'd in the form of a lamb , as a type of his meek and innocent sufferings . a picture harmless in it self , as the creature whence 't was taken ; yet apt to beget , in weak and foolish minds , not the meer notion of christs humility and innocence , but a phantasm of him in the form of a beast . wherefore , though this way of painting christ was most usual before the sixth synod , or third council of constantinople ; yet the fathers of that council saw reason to forbid it a , and to require the governours of the church to take care for the future , that the image of christ might be expressed in human portraict . and , in such form , some pictures of christ might have place in churches in the sixth or seventh centuries . but statues , it may be , were not so soon received as pictures ; and it is manifest , that in the earlier times of st. austin , they were no part of the inventory of the church . for after this manner it is that he argueth against the heathens , where he commenteth on those words of david , the idols of the gentiles are silver and gold the work of mens hands . they ( saith he ) worship that which themselves made of gold and silver . for our selves we indeed have many utensils of this matter or metal which we use in the celebration of the holy sacraments . and being consecrated , they are called holy in honour of him , whom to our souls health we serve by them . and we must confess these instruments or vessels are the work of mens hands ; but have they mouths and speak not , eyes and see not ? do we pray to them ; though in the use of them we supplicate god ? however , seeing christ was made in the form of a man , i know not why that form which appeared to the eye might not be painted by st. luke himself without any immoral stain to his pencil . he that found no fault with the image of caesar stamped on his coin , hath said nothing which forbiddeth his own representation ; with respect , i mean , to his state of manhood here on earth . for that is not pretended to be the picture or image of god-man , any more than the image of any of the caesars , is pretended to be the picture of their souls ; but it is the external resemblance of so much of his person as was visible in flesh . the controversie then is not so much about the making as about the worshipping of the image of christ , either as his image in his state on earth , or which seemeth very absurd , as his portraict now in glory . for though the signs of his passion may prepare us for prayers , yet the addresses themselves are made to him as he is glorious in the heavens , where his estate is unduly typified by a crucifix which representeth him in golgotha , and not in triumph at gods right hand , where his brightness cannot be expressed by a pencil of light it self ; though one very lately reviving the error of the manichees , hath made the sun , his throne , and the right hand of god * . the crucifix was made of old , and admitted into private houses , and at last into churches . but it was first used as a picture for the help of memory , not as a statue in formal place , on a pedestal , at which it might be worshipped . hear in this matter st. gregory the great , a man of some insight into the practice of the church . this is part of his letter to secundinus a . we have sent to you images , — and we do not amiss , if by visible things we represent things not seen . — i am perswaded that you desire not the image of christ with intent to worship it as a god , but that by remembrance of the son of god , you may be more warmed in his love whose image you think you look upon . and for our selves , we are not prostrate before it as before a god , but we worship him whom we call to mind by his image , not as born or crucified , but as sitting on his throne . and whilst the picture , like a writing , brings to our memory the son of god , it either rejoyceth our mind with the resurrection of christ , or asswageth it by his passion . the same st. gregory b , when serenus bishop of marseille , had in an holy zeal broken those images which he saw adored , does wish he had not broken them , but that preventing the worship of them , he had still retained them as historical monuments helpful to the memories of the vulgar . i am not against any thing which may be serviceable as an help to devotion . men stand enough in need . but there are better helps by far than these : and in the church which is the house of oral and living instruction , they serve not much further than for ornament , unless the lay-people come and view them attentively before the beginning of publick service . after that , the objects which cause the eye to gaze , prevent too much the attention of the ear . and yet to say with men who run into extremes , that devotional pictures are no helps to excite memory and passion , is to forget that they are called mute poems ; to speak against common sense ; and to impute less to a crucifix than to the tomb of our friend , or to a thread on our finger . they may be useful as monitors in a christian commonwealth where their worship is plainly and frequently forbidden , and by all understood to be so prohibited . and it was high superstition in those who in our late unhappy revolutions , defaced such pictures and brake down such crosses as authority had suffered to remain entire , whilst it forbad the worship of them ; and was in that particular so well obeyed that none of them ( it may be ) ever knew one man of the communion of the church of england to have been prostrate before a cross , and in that posture to have spoken to it . in the church of rome there is greater pretence for that violence which vulgar reformers presume to be holy . for the council of trent retaineth images in churches , as objects of veneration , and the practice both of priests and people does strangely dilate the words of that council . the article of the creed of trent is this : i most firmly a profess , that the images of christ , and of the mother of god , always a virgin , as also those of other saints are to be had and retained [ especially in churches b ] : and that due honour and veneration is to be given to them . due honour and veneration are in themselves modest words : and where we admit the pictures and images of christ , we refuse not the honour which is due to them . we do not chuse to put them in vile places , we do not use them in vile offices ; we esteem them as ornaments ; we value them as the images of persons more honourable than our prince or our friend : we use them as remembrancers of the great mystery of mans redemption which we cannot too frequently be reminded of . we condemn the indiscreet zeal of our late pretended reformers , who judged him worthy sequestration who had kept a picture of christ in his parlour , and confessed it was to put him in mind of his saviour * . we honour such pictures in a negative sense , by being unwilling to have them contemned . we think them not fit to be placed in the pavements of churches , where ( as st. bernard in his apology to guilielmus abbas complaineth ) they are trodden under foot . where people spit into the mouth of the image of an angel , and tear the face of the image of a saint , with their clouted shoon . we observe and commend the discretion of many romish synods , since that of trent c , which have made laws against lascivious , improper , fabulous , absurd images . we inveigh not against the first council of milan d for requiring the ordinary to summon statuaries , engravers and painters ; and to require them to use their art to the dignity of the prototype . we condemn those zealots among the albigenses ( if such there were ) who are said , in scorn , to have framed deformed images , and to have dishonoured the virgin in a monstrous statue with one eye e . the zeal of the church of england has been much more temperate and discreet , and so ( god be thanked ) it continues at this day . it is not rude to any thing set apart for gods service : it would not have a consecrated chalice quaffed in as a common bowl ; it abhorreth the memory of julian prefect of the east , and uncle to the apostate , who shewed his irreverence towards the eucharist , by spurning and sitting upon the communion-plate of the great church of antioch . but the council of trent seemeth to mean something more than all this , by its due honour and veneration . it doth not indeed mean absolute latria , or direct divine honour to be exhibited to the image it self . it hath otherwise explained it self ; and it condemneth such worship of them . it would not have the people believe a that there is any divinity in them , or virtue for which they should be worshipped ; or that any thing is to be asked of them ; or that trust is to be put in images after the manner of the gentiles . a like caution is given by the synod of cambray b . let the people be taught , saith a decree of that synod , that there is no worship due to the image , either for the matter , or the beauty , or the price and value of its work , or for any other thing which may be in the artifice or substance of the image , but to the thing signified to which this worship and honour is especially referred . in like manner they are to be admonished , that the mind of the person that prayeth , or worshippeth , is to be carried to the thing signified , and not to the sign which neither hears , nor sees , nor perceives . and some of the church of rome do pursue this caution in their manuals of instruction which they give to the people . and it would be very strange if they should herein have been defective ; seeing the very heathens were not . we worship not ( said they ) the very images themselves c , but those whom they represent , and to whose names they are sacred . h. t. in his manual called the abridgment of christian doctrine , proposeth this question d to his disciple : is it lawful to give any honour to the images of christ and his saints ? and then he teacheth him to make this answer : yes ; an inferior or relative honour , inasmuch as they represent unto us heavenly things ; but yet not gods honour , nor yet the honour due to his saints . the same author a while after , propoundeth this query : do not catholicks pray to images and relicks ? and then to this he answereth : no , by no means : we pray before them indeed , ( to keep us from distraction , and to help our memories in the expression and apprehension of coelestial things ) but not to them ; for we know well that they can neither see , nor hear , nor help us . there is some measure of sobriety in these words ; but some other of their writers ought to have had their pens removed from them , with as much reason as we take away the swords of madmen . amongst them i reckon cornelius curtius the augustinian . this romanist thus spendeth some of the heat of his zeal a . i care not at all for luther , calvin , wickliff , and that most filthy magdeburgian sink of impudence and blasphemy . i say it , and say it again , that the most sacred nails of our redeemer do merit worship , even the highest worship . but we have heard better things from the council of trent , and some who follow it . and by such declarations their church denieth to the image it self the worship of the heart in prayer , thanksgiving and trust ; and teacheth us to interpret the forms used in their letter to them , as not to them directed b . such a form is that of , hail c holy cross , our only hope — the scepter of the son , — the bed of grace . — increase righteousness in the pious , and to the guilty vouchsafe pardon . all this it seems , howsoever it soundeth , must be meant not to the very matter and form of the cross , which * dr. bilson will have to be adored in the church of rome , but only to christ crucified . and this also i suppose they would suggest by the cross pictured in their books of devotion , and particularly in the front of their missal of paris c , together with these words of the apostle , god forbid that i should glory save in the cross of our lord. where st. paul intended not to magnifie the wood of the cross , but the sacrifice upon it . and this way of speaking used by the apostle is followed in our litany , in which we desire of christ deliverance by his cross , explaining it by his passion . but still there are outward signs of veneration given to the image it self for christs sake ; not indeed as brass , or silver , or gold , or wood , or stone , or as a piece of excellent art ; but yet as it relates to him , and is his image . given however they are to the image , though they are ultimately referred to christ. due honour , saith d the council of trent , is to be given to them , — and the honour which is given to them is referred to the prototypes . we christians ( said leontius in the synod e of nice ) adoring the figure of the cross , honour not the nature of the wood , but the sign , and ring , and image of christ. and again , f he that feareth god honoureth and adoreth christ as the son of god , and the figure of his cross , and the images of his saints . in images ( saith ( g ) the synod of bourges ) we worship not the matter , but him that was represented . as if it were one act , and the image were worshipped together with christs godhead , as is the humanity , by reason of its personal union with it . they that speak thus , have deprived themselves of the usual evasion that the church of rome owneth one god only , and therefore cannot by her own principle , worship an image with absolute latria . for in the worship of that one god , or the divinity of jesus christ , god-man , they take in the worship of the image or relick , as of a body made one with him . to that effect there are dangerous sayings in the second synod of nice , related by photius . it was there said by adrian from epiphanius bishop of constantia in cyprus , that a king having his statue or image is not presently two kings , but one together with his image * . it was there affirmed ( though not particularly , and in those words decreed ) that by the worship of images a , which seems divided , we are carried up undividedly unto the indivisible deity . and again , that in such worship b , we are carried up into a certain unitive and conjunctive vision . as if we adhered to god by clinging with devout embraces to an image made by humane art. yet this in effect is said by many of their doctors , who tell us that latria is given to the image not absolutely , but relatively , not by it self c but by accident , as they are considered in conjunction with the prototype , and making one thing with it . suarez himself d is one of these rash men , and affirmeth that the prototype in the image , and the image for the prototype may be adored with one interior and exterior act. but amongst the honourers of images and relicks , there are not many sure who fly higher in their devotion than cornelius curtius . he does not say things we hear every day , and therefore let us listen to him a while in this present argument . let us now see ( saith that idolizer of the nails of the cross e ) what kind of veneration we owe to these nails : divines distinguish three kinds of worships which are wont to be expressed by the greek words of latria , hyperdulia , and dulia ; which because they terminate either in god , or in intelligent natures , therefore none of these do properly belong to the nails , as being things without life or reason , and consequently not capable of such worships . wherefore to speak to them as such , and to ask any thing of them , would be a sign of madness and superstition . so all catholicks unanimously conclude f . notwithstanding this , because we may , and we usually do adjoin the nails to christ in our cogitation g , hence it comes to pass that by reason of this connexion , we may give them a certain right [ or direct ] worship : for if we contemplate his humanity , we then give to the nails the worship of hyperdulia : if we think of his divinity , we owe to them the honour of latria . but for dulia we bid it keep its distance , as being less worthy . neither ought it to seem a wonder to any man , that we give that honour to iron , which we acknowledg to be proper to god alone ; for this is not given to this metal in respect of its nature , but in regard of the person by whose contact [ or union into oneness of object ] it deservedly obtaineth that high honour . this is strange language from the provincial for belgium : but the fathers of trent spake more modestly , and we will take their words into further consideration . they allow external signs of worship both before , and to an image . the external signs mentioned by them a , are saluting , uncovering the head , kneeling , bowing or prostration . and the synod of cambray teacheth b that the external signs of that honour , worship , and invocation which they refer to the thing signified , such as are bending of the knee , and other signs of the like kind , are given rightly to images . and it would not have this seem absurd or impious to any man , whilst by the signs they worship the prototypes . this declaration of honouring the image it self mr. thorndike taxeth c as an idle thing ; he might also have proceeded , and called it perillous , and a means of scandal . for the external honour of christ is his honour , though not the only honour which is due to him : and sometimes hypocrites promote his honour in the world by the meer shews of it ; and sometimes men blindly devout , betray it by exhibiting the signes of it where they are not due . it is true , that salutation is both a civil and a religious ceremony . coecilius in minutius foelix , pointing to the image of serapis , kissed his hand , in token of his devotion to that idol . and the romans were wont , when they complemented one another , first to reach forth their hand , and then drawing it up to their mouth , to kiss it , and this was called , adoring , and venerating of them . so tacitus saies of otho d that he stretched out his hand and adored the people , and threw his kisses among them : and of nero , that he worshipped or venerated the assemblie with his hand . also bowing , kneeling , prostration are equivocal signes : and as we use them towards god , so we do the like towards princes , and before their empty chairs of state. before them , i say , for to bow to them , though it be not idolatry , yet it is a debasement of our reasonable persons . for that external sign is the sign of an homage not due to them , but to the absent prince of whom they put us in mind : and the ceremonie interprets and declares that inward homage and submission to them whose chairs they are . now , though such signes are thus equivocal , yet they are so determined , by their objects , and circumstances , to their particular sense ; that a weak capacity can scarce commit an error in their interpretation . he that sees a cross made by a shepherd on one of his sheep , does not think it signifies alike with the cross impression which a priest , or metaphorical shepheard , makes at the holy font on the forehead of a child whom he hath just incorporated into his flock . he that sees another saluting him by pulling off his hat , and bowing , and crying , god save you ; cannot think he is , thereby , made a god or an idol ; but he interprets all this as a sign of respect according to the usage of his country . but if he sees a second james naylor riding on an ass in triumph into bristol , and hears the women cry hosannah , and sees them bow their knees ; he hath cause to believe that they are both mad and idolatrous : so much there is of idolatry , in that which the quakers judged religion ; and so little of it in that civility which they think is irreligion , and the worship of the creature . he thas sees an artist in the shop of a statuary , kneeling before the image of hercules , and finishing his foot , will look upon him as a man employed in his mechanical trade . but if he finds him in a church , at the hours of prayer , kneeling , or prostrate , with uncovered head , with beads in his hands , and tears in his eyes , and kisses from his mouth , at the pedestal of a crucifix , or of an image of christ ; [ an image set up for that use ; an image consecrated a , and perfumed with consecrated incense ; and rendred illustrious with consecrated tapers b ; ] he will not then think him at his ordinary work , but at his earnest devotion . now it may here be properly demanded of a romanist , whether the sign of bowing , kneeling , or prostration , be exhibited to the image alone , to god alone , or to both of them ? and if to both , whether in equal or unequal degrees ? it cannot be said that it is done only to the image , as a sign of civil respect , and not to god , because the man is exercising himself in such devotions as have god only ( the romanists confessing it ) for their ultimate object . he is at his prayers to god , or some person in the trinity ; and kneeling , or bowing at such a time is as much the external part of worship , as the submission of the mind is the part internal . it cannot be said by a true romanist , to be done to god only , because the great synod , and the rituals of that church , declare such external ceremonies to be addresses to the very images as images of christ such ceremonies the synod of nice seemeth generally to mean , when it presseth the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , worship or adoration of images , i. e. the veneration of the body of which men only can take cognizance . such veneration the council of trent ( as hath appeared already ) doth give by her decree , to the very images , with regard to their divine relation , though not in respect to their matter or form . the missal commands the priest , after having fixed the cross in a place prepared for it before the altar a to pull off his shoos and adore the cross , [ that is , not orare ad ( the old derivation of adorare ) to pray to it , for it prescribes no form there , but to bow to it ] , and then to kiss it . the pontifical indeed , speaketh sometimes of worshipping before an image b ; but , in other places , it r●…quireth the worship of it . for so , in the benediction of a n●…w cross c , the bishop is required , once and again , to bow his knees before it and to adore it devoutly . nay , once d it declareth that the worship latria is due to the cross. it cannot be said by a romanist , who regardeth his cre●…d , that this external address is made to christ and his image in ●…qual degree ; for that were to give honour properly divine unto a creature ; a sign of honour being honour : an act of acknowledgement in our selves , and a means of procuring it amongst other persons . they must then say , if they will speak with shew of consistence , that the mind doth apply the act of incurvation to the image as a sign of inferior honour , and to christ as a sign of that honour which is supream . that the case is like to that of naaman before his conversion unto judaism : for then he worshipped the idol of rimmon with religious worship , and yet by the same act of external adoration or bowing , he did testifie his civil respect to his master that leaned on him . but their worship is not so circumstantiated as that of naaman's . he doubtless did some other homage separately from his master , to shew his supposed religion : and they have none leaning on them , ( unless by accident ; ) by complement to whom they may interpret the sign , in part , of a civil respect . but how doth one external sign split , in each single exhibition of it , into two significations , appear to signifie doubly , to the common spectators ? that no mistake may be committed , the roman assemblies had need be so many conventions of great clerks and wise schoolmen . but , in all assemblies , how few are good judges ? and how many spies are there jewish , and mahometan , and heathen , to whom it is morally impossible to know their distinctions ? and how many of the same communion have gross and stupid minds and devotions begotten of ignorance ? and what uncharitableness is it to make a ditch in the daily walks of the blind , and the weak , and the inadvertent ? and what a scandal is this in india , or china , where the gestures are seen , and the books that explain them are not understood or handled by one of a thousand ? and where their own worship of images maketh them think the christians not far from their religion ? they who use images in their devotions , and are as discreet in their devotions as that usage will give them leave ; these profess that they bow not to the image at all , but only to god before it [ for thus s. gregory , durandus , halcot , biel seem to profess ] . and it is honour enough to the image , that our devotion is on choice , done at the foot of it . they ought to profess that when they kiss the image , though the external sign of worship toucheth it and adheres to it , yet it doth not so adhere to it in the quality of an object which it terminateth on , but as a kind of resting-place in the way , whilst it cannot reach its journeys-end by the body , but by the mind only . that being moved by holy passion towards the blessed jesus , they salute the image of christ , not being able to reach his person : and they may illustrate their meaning by the wish of thomasinus , who passionately breaketh into this language a ; o that there were any man to whom i might be beholding for the images of molinus and pignorius , men to be by me eternally honoured ; that i might kiss the portraict of those whom i cannot embrace in person . they may further thus far apologize for the heathens , and say , that when they worshipped the sun by the kissing of their hand , they did not so much kiss their hand as the presumed deity whom they could not reach . they may add , that when they kiss the image of the son , they exhibit this ceremonie , not only as an effect , but as a sign of their love to him . for so a man that kisseth the hemm of a garment , does in truth , but touch the hemm , and offer it as it is a sign of observance unto the person . the materiality of the act reacheth the image , the formality the prototype . in england , in the days of henry the seventh , some romanists spake not so rashly as bellarmine , who without necessity imposed on him by the decree of trent , asserted a proper veneration of images b , as objects terminating that worship in themselves , and not as sustaining the place of the prototype . amongst them i find an ancient author who hath written in folio an exposition of the ten commandments in the way of a dialogue betwixt dives and pauper . and because he speaks soberly in this argument , and is not in many hands , i will here transcribe some places out of him a . dives . whereof serve these ymages , i wolde they were brent alle . pauper . they serve for thre thynges ; for they be ordeyned to stere mannys mynd to thynke on cristes incarnation , and on his passion and on his lyvinge , and on other seintes lyvinge . also they ben ordeyned to styre mans affection , and his herte to devocion . for ofte man is more steryd by sight than be herynge or redynge . also they be ordeyned to be a token and a boke to the leude peple , that they may reade in ymagery and painture , that clerkes rede in in the boke , as the lawe sayth . de consecra . distinct . . prolatum . where we fynde that a bisshop destroied ymages as thou woldest do , and forfendyd that no man shuld worship ymages . he was accused to the pope seynt gregory , which blamyd him gretely for that he had so distroyed the ymages ; but utterly he prised him for ' he forfendyd them to worshyp ymages . the . chaptre . dives . how shuld i rede in the boke of paynture , and of ymagery . pauper . whanne thou seest the ymage of the crucifixe , thynk on him that died on the crosse for thy synne — take hede by the ymage howe his hede was crowned with a garlonde of thornes — take hede by the ymage how his armes were spradde abrode — in token that he is redy to halse and clyppe the , &c. on this maner i pray the rede thy boke and falle down to grounde , and thanke thy god that wolde do so moche for the ; and worshyp above al thynge , nat the ymage , nat the stock , stone , ne tree , but him that dyed on the tree , for thy synne and thy sake . so that thou knele if thou wylt before the ymage . nat to the ymage . make thy prayer before the ymage . but nat to the ymage . for it seeth the nat , herythe the nat . understondeth the nat . make thyn offrynge if thou wilt before the ymage , but nat to th' ymage . make thy pilgramage , nat to the ymage , ne for the ymage . for it may nat help the , but to him and for him that the ymage representeth to the. for if thou doo it for the ymage , or to the ymage , thou doste ydolatry . the . chaptre . dives . me thynkith that whanne men knele before the ymage , pray and loke on the ymage , with weepyng teres , bunche or knock their brestys , with other such countynaunce , they do al this to the ymage , and so wenyth moche peple . pauper . if they doo it to the ymage , they synne gretly in ydolatry agenst reasone and kynde — dives . how might they do alle before the ymage , and not worshyp the ymage . pauper . oft thou seest that the preest in the chirch hath his boke before him . he knelyth he , stareth , he loketh on his boke , he holdeth up his hondes , and for devocion in case he wepith , and maketh devout prayers ; to whom wenyste thou the preest doth alle this worship ? dives . to god and nat to the boke . [ this instance , by the way , is not so proper : for the book , though it relateth to christ , is not an object which representeth him ; nor doth the priest speak to it as he doth often to the crucifix . and that 's the next objection of dives in the fourth chapter . dives . on palm-sunday at procession the prest draweth up the veil before the rode , and fallith down to grounde with alle the people , and saith thries , ave rex noster , hayle be thou oure kynge , and soo he worshipeth that ymage as king. pauper . absit . god forbede . he speketh not to the ymage , that the carpenter hath made , and the peyntour painted , but if the priste be a fole , for that stocke or stoone was never kynge , but he speketh to him that dyed on the croce for us al , to him that is king of alle thynge . the xiii chaptre . pauper . the lawe clepith ymages venerable and worshipful , for ther shuld no man dispyse them ne defoul hem , brenne them ne breke them . de consecrat . di iii venerabiles ; and for this manner of veneration and worship , saith the lawe in the same place , & summe doctoures , that ymages , boke or vestment , and chalice , may be worshipped with dulia . but they take that dulia fulle largely , and full unproperly , for such worship and veneration is ne service , ne subjection , as i said before . for them who can instruct their minds , help their memories , excite their passions , and fix their fancy , by praying before an image , they are at liberty to use such helps in their private closets . in publick let them consider whether the scandal of others be not a greater evil than this kind of help can be a good . and to me it seemeth that what help soever it may be to dispose and prepare us , yet in the very act of devotion , it is an impediment : for then we exercise the heart and mind rather than the eye and the imagination ; which latter when it hath an idea of god-man , it apprehendeth him as in glory . and in this point thomas a kempis himself was not determined in his judgment ; for in one place a he commendeth the use of a crucifix in praying to god ; and yet in another place b he prescribeth a form of prayer in which god almighty is intreated to free the mind from bodily fantasms . for st. austin , he thought that no body c could worship or pray with his eyes fixed on an image , but he must be so affected as to think it hears him , and will give him the aid which he implores . he saith in another place d , that the figure of the parts of an humane body doth even extort this , that the soul which lives in the body shall thereby be the apter to think that body perceives which it sees like to its own . and that images avail more to the bowing down of the unhappy mind , in that they have a mouth , eyes , ears , and feet ; then to the correcting of it by their not speaking , seeing , hearing , or walking . bellarmine himself confesseth e that they who adore god in an image or creature , do expose themselves to great peril , and are compelled to use the most subtle distinctions which the learned scarce understand , much less the vulgar . let them see to it who lay such snares in the way of the people ; whatsoever they intend , they may plainly foresee that their feet will be taken in them ; and that many thousands have been so caught , they may know from history and experience . most unhappy have been the consequences of the second synod of nice , which decreed the relative worshipping or bowing down to images f : which by its president tarrhasius , and its defender , adrian the first , owned a transition of the worship through the image to the prototype [ like an arrow which first passeth actually through the medium e're it hitteth the mark ] : and , which ( in the opinion g of mr. thorndike ) brought in and authorized addresses to solitary images of saints . since that time , gods worship has been exceedingly depraved , and such bold men as naclantus bishop of clugium , have openly declared that the same latria or divine honour is due to the image which is due to the prototype . and it hath been shewed a while ago that the pontificale it self affirmeth latria to be due to the cross , without distinguishing of it into absolute and relative . but i would not misconstrue one unadvised passage as the constitution of the whole church of rome , and a condition of its communion ; though i cannot but from the premisses conclude the danger of its communion , or the peril of idolatry in it . further , there is another kind of idolatry towards the image of christ , visible in the practice of many romanists , though not enforced by the decrees of their church . i mean that divers make it a divine shechinah , or image in which christ eminently dwells , and miraculously operates * . it was the custom of asclepiades the philosopher ( as in the d . book of ammianus , we are informed ) to carry with him whithersoever he journeyed , a little silver-image of the goddess coelestis . 't is probable that he hoped amongst other things , for the fairer weather ; for she was urania the goddess of the clouds a . and a late king of france is said to have carried about with him , as his coelestial guardian , a crucifix of lead . if other roman catholicks wear it about their necks as a remembrancer , and not as an amulet ; they have the greater protection from god for their removing a superstitious defensative . and it is great pity that such things should be laid before the people as instruments of inchantment , by the literal sound at least of the ritual b and pontifical c , which bless crosses and relicks as weapons of defence against evil spirits , tempests , malignant air , thieves , invaders , hurtful beasts . and he does not dwell within many doors of a prophet , who cannot guess at the proneness of the people to superstitious usages . the rebels of devonshire in the reign of edward the sixth d , in their march to the siege of exeter , carried before them ( as the jews did the ark of god , in the times of old ) the pix , or consecrated host , born under a canopy , with crosses , banners , candlesticks , holy-bread , and holy-water , and other things ; though the walls of ex●…ter fell not down before this false ark , as dagon did before the true . and it is commonly known what virtue is ascribed to the pope's agnus dei's , and how the people use them as holy statues in which christ's divine virtue so resides , as by its glorious presence and power to expell all enemies ghostly and bodily . here trust is put in a creature as a shechinah of christ , which is not such , and consequently that trust is no better than a reliance on an idol . part . of the idolatry charged on the romanists in the worship of the images of saints . touching the images of the saints , and the veneration of them , it is fit i say something ; but the premisses being considered , i have the less need of being voluminous . it is a question whether any such images can be made with any suitableness to the prototypes . christ indeed hath raised his own body long ago , and it is contained in the heavens . but of saints who are yet in an imperfect estate , whose bodies are yet asleep in the dust ; what praxiteles or titian , can give us fit statues , or pictures of them ? what they were we may by images and pictures conceive . but what they now are in the present heavenly condition , with relation to which the romanists worship them , who on earth can reveal to us , whilst eye hath not seen it , neither hath ear heard it ? but for the images or pictures of the saints in their former estate on earth ; if they be made with discretion ; if they be the representations of such whose saintship no wise man calleth into question ; if they be designed as their honourable memorials ; they who are wise to sobriety , do make use of them ; and they are permitted in geneva it self , where remain in the quire of the church of st. peter a , the pictures of the twelve prophets on one side , and on the other those of the twelve apostles , all in wood ; also the pictures of the virgin and st. peter in one of the windows . and we give to such pictures that negative honour which they are worthy of . we value them beyond any images besides that of christ ; we help our memories by them ; we forbear all signs of contempt towards them . but worship them we do not , so much as with external positive signs : for if we uncover the head , we do it not to them , but at them , to the honour of god who hath made them so great instruments in the christian church ; and to the subordinate praise of the saints themselves . they who worship such images , do either worship them as the statues of such invisible powers as do under god govern the world ; or of holy spirits who hear them in all places , and pray to god particularly for them ; or who only pray for them in general ; or as so many shechinahs of ruling , or interceding saints . and , first , if they worship them as representations of ruling daemons , they are idolatrous . for they thereby give away the honour of gods reserved power , to a creature : they honour as clients the statue of a saint , whilst god is by right their patron . secondly , if they worship the images of saints , only as holy spirits who pray for them , and hear them in any place , by the help of that god whose essence is every-where , and who enabled the prophet to know the actions of gehazi , when he was out of his sight ; they are still thereby in peril of idolatry : for if god does not enable them to hear , and they pray with confidence in them as hearing , they relye on a power in the creature , which god hath not communicated to it . thirdly , if they honour the images of saints only as holy spirits who in general pray for them , they are not to be thence condemned as idolaters : for should they so far debase their reason as to give to the image the same honour which is due to the saint , they honour but a creature that is inferior , with the honour of a creature , superior to it , who prayeth for them in the mass of mankind . and if they bow to such an image , that external sign of worship can't reasonably be interpreted by the beholders as a sign of divine honour ; because they bow to that which appears no other than the image of a saint , and not a crucifix or image of christ ( the eye sufficiently distinguishing these ) ; and therefore it hath no higher honour than the prototype , which is a creature . i except here such bowing and kneeling to the image of a saint as is in use in the roman church ; and is accompanied with a form of prayer proper to be addressed to god , and particularly that form which christ hath taught us . for though the catechism of trent requireth the parish priest to let the people understand , that a when any one pronounceth the lords-prayer to the image of a saint , he should think only that he joineth his prayers with those of that saint to god for him . yet the people are not so apt to receive the instruction , and to be free from mistake : and this the catechism it self supposeth , whilst it speaketh of the need there is of the greatest caution b in this matter : need of it , not only for the moment of the thing , but for the easiness of erring in it . fourthly , if they worship them as shechinahs of ruling daemons , they honour that as the presence of a power which god is pleased every-where to exercise ; and which he hath not fixed in such statues , in order to any eminent operation . wherefore they give the honour of gods schechinah to that which is not such , and their trust is in an idol . and here the practice of the church of rome is scandalous , if its constitution be not . there is a common perswasion among that people , that prayers are more effectually heard , and that miracles are sooner done before an image than in the absence of it : that one image is a more excellent shechinah than another ; that our lady will perform things at loretto , which she will not do at rome it self . and they who desire blessing of st. winifred , think they soonest attain it at her well . the liber festivalis ( as they called it ) in use here in england , in the time of henry the seventh c , aboundeth with stories of divine power working in images ; and amongst other tales , it telleth of the power of the image of st. nicholas , in keeping mens goods in safety ; and how certain thieves who were permitted for a time to steal a few goods committed to its care , were by st. nicholas forced to speedy restitution . we read in krantzius d , that count gerhard , uncle to waldemare of sleswick , went to battel against the danes with the image of the virgin about his neck ; after the manner of sylla the dictator , who used in such emergencies , certain little statues of apollo or jove , one of which after his escape in a very dangerous fight , he kissed , saying , o jupiter ! i had almost fallen with you this day , and you with me . and the books of the most learned papists are full of legends , which by telling of the motion of the images themselves in wonderful manner , or of the miraculous events succeeding the addresses made at them , do incline the people to come thither with confidence , as to the shechinahs of god. curtius , the provincial of belgium , is one of these writers , and i find this story in him : there was a certain poor man b , who in extreme need beseeched our saviour to preserve him , from perishing , by some small alms. at this prayer , the image , or rather christ in the image , bowed himself , and gave to the beggar his right shoo as a help in his need . away went the man with this new prize , but the neighbours hearing of it , redeemed the shoo with the equal weight in gold . but that shoo to this day , could never be fitted again to the foot , but is supported with a chalice . it seems this crucifix was made of cedar by nicodemus himself c ; but methinks with no good fancy ; the artist having carved a crown of gold , instead of one of thorns , upon the head of our holy lord. lipsius ( a man rather learned than wise ) telleth d of the many drops of blood which distilled from a certain wooden image of the virgin at halla . and on this he looked as on a miracle , either declaring her resentment of the present wars , or foretelling the cessation of them by her means . the eyes of venantius fortunatus were cured of their pain , after having been anointed ( as they say ) from the lamp of saint martin ; and baronius a hence proveth , as from a certain medium , the worship of images . but how if god doth this by nature , or sometimes by miraculous power , for the trial of our faith ? or what if such things should be done by gods just permission , by the devil himself , to men that have renounced their reason ? why then , the devil has their trust and praise instead of god ; an idolatry not to be mentioned without religious fear and indignation . and doth not the devil sometimes work such wonders ? how then come the books of the heathens to be fill'd with stories of miracles wrought in or at their images , as well as those of the romanists ? if it be told by the romanist lipsius , that an image of the virgin bled ; it is also storied by the heathen porphyrie b , that when a certain king endeavour'd to pull an hair from a statue of the brachmans , the blood gushed out against him . moreover , that the statue did sweat so exceedingly in the heat of the weather , that they were forc'd to refresh it with perpetual fanning . lastly , if the worshippers of the images of saints , do honour them only as shechinahs , where the saints hear better than in other places , and as their chambers of meer request that they would pray for them ; they commit a mistake , and they think them present when they are not : but they give not away gods honour , which is not infringed by this meer thought , that his saints are in certain places ; seeing that belongeth to their finite condition . but if wise men look for them in any certain place , they look for them rather in some space of the clear air , than in an image , or a cave , where there may be suspition of imposture . now , though men by this last way of venerating images , do not idolize them as supreme gods , or as ruling-daemons ; yet they offend in the other extreme , and disparage them as saints , whilst they make them to chuse such mean and unbecoming apartments . this was the belief of arnobius , with part of whose confession i will end this chapter . i very grievously b reproach'd those whom [ in my state of heathenism ] i thought to be divine , whilst i believ'd them to be wood , stone , bone , or to dwell in the matter of such things . chap. xiii . of the idolatry charged , without any tolerable colour , on the church of england . it was the wisdom of our legal reformers , to purge the church of all manifest corruptions , and particularly of those which had crept in about the invocation of saints , and the worship of images . but there arose men of a worse temper , and such who usurped power . and these thought that nothing of the old building was again to be used . they were not for sweeping and repairing of gods house , but for razing the very foundation , and sowing the place with salt. among our selves ( saith the learned mr. thorndike a , meaning not the sons of the church , but the giddy people of england ) it seems yet to be a dispute , whether any ceremonies at all are to be used in the publick service of god. the pretences of this time having extended the imagination of idolatry so far , as to make the ceremonies and utensils of gods service , idols ; and the ceremonies which they are used with , idolatries . nay , it was the way of the fanatical people in the late civil wars , to give the name of idol to any thing to which their fancy was not reconcil'd . some call'd the most excellent father of our countrey b , th●… idol of the people . with some , the liturgy c , the surplice d , a church , a steeple , was an idol . neither did there want those who bestow'd that title upon that necessary doctrine of the gospel which requireth conditions and qualifications of holiness in order to acceptance with god through christ a . i should run a strange and endless course , if i should pursue all their extravagancies ; but a few of the most colourable amongst them , i will a little consider . those i mean , are the three following . the first is , the bowing towards the altar b . the second is , the kneeling at the holy communion . the third is , the reverence at the name of jesus . the first of these , the bowing towards the altar , is no command of the church , nor the common practice of it in parochial assemblies , nor so much as the couns●…l of any of its canons , besides the seventh of those which they call the canons of bishop laud c . and in that canon the true spirit of christian meekness and charity is thus expressed . the reviving — of this ancient and laudable custom , we heartily commend to the serious consideration of all good people ; not with any intention to exhibit any religious worship to the communion-table — but only for the advancement of gods majesty , and to give him alone that honour and glory that is due unto him , and not otherwise . and in the practice or omission of this rule , we desire , that the rule of charity , prescribed by the apostle , be observed , which is , that they which use this rite , despise not them who use it not ; and that they who use it not , condemn not those who use it . and little reason there is , that those who use it not , should condemn those who use it , as idolaters , when they publickly declare that they bow not , as others d , to it , but towards it , to god alone ; who there exhibits that high favour of renewing , by visible tokens and pledges , our covenant with him . our sign of reverence must be some way exhibited ; and what idolatry is there in the exhibition of it this way , when 't is but the way , not the object of our religious veneration ? it is against the common sense of the sign of incurvation , to interpret it as the worship of every thing in a church , before which the sign is made : it must be the circumstance of the object , and the form of address , and the application made to it , which determineth its worship . few therefore there are so injudiciously uncharitable as to accuse the minister of adoring the church-bible , or common-prayer-book ; though he often bows , and kneels , and prays before them . few i say there are that do so : for i think his madness singular , who in the late revolutions in england , maintained in a publick pamphlet , ( well worthy sure an imprimatur ) that a words in a book were images , and consequently that to pray before a book , or to use a book in prayer is idolatry , or image-worship . it is true , concerning the second ceremony , the kneeling at the holy communion , that it is enjoined by our church ; but enjoined it is in the quality of a decent circumstance , and not as an essential part of the lords-supper . but we are by no rubrick or canon enjoined to kneel to the sacramental bread , which is declared still to be bread ( though not the bread of common tables ) and not the natural body of christ : also before the administration of it , which is done in a form of prayer , which requireth our reverence , the people are generally on their knees in devotion to god. if any begin then to kneel , their kneeling is by the church declared to be at the sacrament , not to the elements of it , ( as they of rome do b towards which she alloweth not so much as a prosopopeia in her prayers ; and which are neither the statues nor the pictures of christs person ; though they be apt memorials of his passion ; and are more safely received in their ordinary form than with such figures as the roman church impresseth upon them ; of which great variety is to be seen in the electa of novarinus . further , the church of england to avoid all pretence of cavil and exception , hath besides her article against the corporal presence , given to the world an express declaration of her design in the injunction of kneeling . she declareth that this is done in reverence and humility to christ , and not to the shews or substance of the elements , or to the natural body of christ under the shews of bread. they who are acquainted with the writings of monsieur daille , have no more reason to think him a romanist , than they have to take bellarmine for a zealot amongst the reformed . now this is the acknowledgment of that grave and learned person , in his apology for the reformed churches . whilst the church of england a declareth , as it doth , against the adoration of the external elements , their kneeling at the communion cannot be taken for the worshipping of the bread , nor be thought any thing else but the worship of christ himself reigning in the heavens . in this external adoration of christ , the church of england followeth the ancient church , which , though it often adored by bowing , and not kneeling ; yet sometimes it used that gesture , and was never wanting in some sign of reverence . such adoration is mentioned by st. chrysostom ; and particularly the gesture of kneeling or prostration in some places ; though monsieur larrogne hath not pleased , when he had just occasion so to do b , to take notice of it . that eminent father in his third homily on the epistle to the ephesians , thus upbraideth the irreverent and indevout communicant c : the royal table is prepared , the king himself is present , and standest thou gaping about ? thy garments are unclean , and art not thou , at all , concerned at it ? but they are pure , [ that is , the royal table and the king of that marriage-feast , ] wherefore fall down and communicate . for the third ceremony , the bowing at the name of jesus , it is also enjoined , not as duty in its nature , necessary to salvation , but as a decent sign of our inward esteem of that inestimable benefit , which that name brings to our mind a . of that just esteem , and not meerly of the outward ceremony , i hope that zealous gentleman spake , who is reported to have wished that every knee might rot which would not bow at the name of jesus b . by bowing at this name we advance not the son above the father , but adore the whole trinity , whilst by the cue or sign of this name we are reminded of the greatest mercy that ever god vouchsafed ; the name of jesus displaying the wisdom and mercy of god beyond those of el , jah , adonai , or jehovah . and for us to bow when-ever we hear that name solemnly pronounced , is no more to commit idolatry than is our crying out at the reading of the gospels , glory be to thee , o lord , or , o the depth of the riches of gods mercy in christ. for these words , and that gesture , are but external signs of the same inward acknowledgment and adoration . and they who think we worship the very name c when we bow at it , are as grosly mistaken as the ignorant people in athenaeus : for some there mentioned d , when they heard others cry out , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god save you ; or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , god grant you life , at the sneezing of any ; conceited that they adored either the very sternutation , or the brain of man which then discharged it self of the fumes which oppressed it . the church of england doth not enjoin men to bow to the name of jesus as to an object , but only at it , as at a signal by which they are admonished of the time of paying reverence to god. neither is there any such form used in our church as in the church of rome , which to the priests travelling into england a , prescribeth this out of the missal of sarum . o god who hast made the most glorious name of our lord jesus christ thy only begotten son , amiable to the faithful , with the highest affection of suavity , and terrible and dreadful to evil spirits ; mercifully grant that all they who devoutly worship this name on earth , may perceive in this present life the sweetness of holy consolation ; and obtain in the life to come the joy of exultation and endless jubilee , by the same lord. it is my opinion that the judicious of that church mean by that name , our saviour himself as redeemer of the world : but the church expresseth it self in such manner that to the people the name of jesus soundeth like some distinct adorable object . for it speaketh of worshipping that name ; it hath the mass of the name of jesus ; the litany of the name of jesus b ; and such-like forms which are apt to entangle common hearers . st. ludgard c would have such honour done , not only to christs name , but to that of the virgin ; and he adviseth that when these words in the tc deum are repeated , when thou tookest upon thee to deliver man thou didst not abhor the virgins womb ; that then we bow down to the very ground . and it is said ( d ) of st. gerard bishop of canadium ( that is , of chonad in hungary ) that by his zeal for the honour of the holy virgin , he brought it at length so to pass in that country , that when they heard the name of our lady pronounced , they straightway fell on their knees , and bowed their heads towards the earth . and indeed nothing stoopeth lower than superstition . but in the church of england the bowing is neither that of superstition nor idolatry , but of religious reverence , at the hint of a word which setteth forth to us all the dimensions , or rather the infinity of the divine wisdom and love a . lee not then the ignorance or malice of men who make court to nothing but their own diana , accuse that excellent church of idolatry , which hath so carefully purged her self of idols , though not of all manner of rites : that had been to have swept away the convenient ornaments of gods house together with the durt of it , the name which the jews give to an idol . of some in england who have rent themselves from the safe communion of that church , there may be juster reason for such complaint . what can judicious men think of the true original quaker , but as of one who by believing that god is not distinct from the saints b , and by worshipping that which he calls his light or christ within him , rejecteth the person of our redeemer , and committeth idolatry with his own imagination ? must not they make a like judgment of such as anna trapnell c , who believed for a while , that god dwelt essentially in his saints ? must not they also judg of lodowick muggleton as of a mad-man , or of an impostor , selling his blessings at a very profitable rate ; or of an idolater worshipping nothing for the one true god , but a confined person of flesh and bones . for he owneth no other godhead than that which was conceived in the womb of the virgin d , and circumscribed by it for a season ; and as he blasphemously continues to speak e , such as lost it self for a while , both in honour and knowledg ; not knowing till he was glorified , that himself was god the father , but that elias was his god and his father . for that also is one of his blasphemies , that god not finding it safe to trust the angels a upon his descent from heaven , he committed his place to the safer trust of moses and elias b . a blasphemy worse , if possible , than that in irenaeus c , of the extravagant gnosticks , who supposed the place of the logos to have been on earth supplied by the angel gabriel . but i forbear any further repetition of his abominable fancies , which will cause as great pain in the ears of pious christians , as the justice of the magistrates has lately done in his own . i shut up this chapter with the prayer of that learned french-man isaac casaubon d : thou , o lord jesu , preserve this church of england , and give a sound mind to those nonconformists who deride the rites and ceremonies of it . chap. xiv . of the means which god hath vouchsafed the world towards the cure of idolatry ; and more particularly , of his favour in exhibiting , to that purpose , the shechinah of his son. part . of the cure of idolatry . the notion of idolatry being stated , and also illustrated by the practice of it amongst gentiles , jews , mahometans , and professors of christianity ; i proceed to shew the means which god , in pity of our weakness , hath given us towards the cure of this evil. against all manner of false gods , and ruling-daemons , he gave to all the world a principle of reason , which teacheth that there is one supreme being , absolute in perfection ; and by consequence , that he , being every-where , by almighty power , wisdom , and goodness , is every-where to be adored and trusted in as the only god. the same principle of reason teacheth them , that god can neither be represented by an image , nor confined to it ; neither knoweth it much more of the inferiour powers of the invisible world , save that they are ; and consequently it hath no ground for addresses to them . for the jews , they had an express command for the worship of one god without image ; and many declarations of god , as governing the world by his immediate providence . also christian religion sheweth plainly , that the gods of the heathens were doemons , or evil spirits ; and that there is but one god , and one mediator , to be by christians adored . it establisheth a church or corporation of christians who agree in the worship of one god in trinity . in baptism , or the sacrament of admittance into that society , it prescribeth a solemn renuntiation of the devil and his works , of which a part were the pomps , or processions , in honour of idols . in the sacrament which is a memorial of the passion of christ , the head and founder of this society , it offereth to us the cup of the lord , in opposition to the cup of devils . on the first-day of the week set a-part for publick worship , it maketh a remembrance of the creation of the world , by the son , by whom the father made all things , and not by any doemons ; as also of the resurection of christ from the dead , by which he conquered the powers of darkness . in the form of prayer which our lord taught the church , it prayeth for deliverance 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a from that evil one ( from satan the destroyer , as rabbi judah was wont to petition ) ; and , in the doxology , it ascribeth not ( with the heathen world which then lay in maligno illo , under the power of the god of this world in general idolatry ; ) the kingdom , power , and glory , to the devil ; but to that one true god , who was the father of jesus christ. but upon most of these subjects , i have already inlarged : it remaineth , therefore , that i speak of the means which god hath specially vouchsafed in the case of images ; a subject not commonly discoursed of , and hinted only in the former papers . this disquisition i will begin with the notion of the invisibility of god ; proceeding thence , to the condescension he vouchsafes , towards the very eye and fancy of man , in the shechinah of his son. there is , in the very creation , a great part of invisible matter and motion . many things , besides god almighty , are not immediately subject to mans sense , though his reason can reach them , after a philosophical consideration of their palpable effects . god , indeed , could have made that matter , which is now invisible , to have been seen by man , in all the minute and curious textures of it . for what should hinder that omnipotence which formed the light , and created the soul , from framing the fibers of the nerves in such delicate manner in this life , [ what possibly he may do in the coelestial body ] as to give to man a kind of natural microscope . but , for his own divine substance , which hath neither limits , nor parts , nor physical motion [ which is the division of parts , ] nor figure [ which is inconsistent with immensity ] ; nor colour [ which is an effect of figure , and motion upon the brain ] ; it is certain , that in this body , we cannot see it ; and there is great reason to doubt whether we can do so in any other , which , though it be coelestial , is still but body . for this sight , then , we are not to hope , unless we mean it of the fuller knowledg of gods will ; and interpret the antecedent by the consequent in that place of scripture a , which saith , no man hath seen god at any time ; the only begotten son , which is in the bosom of the father , he hath reveal'd him . st. john in that place denieth expresly actual sight , as also he doth again in his first epistle b : tertullian c in his refutation of praxeas , discourseth of the invisibility of god , and the visibility of the son of god [ illustrating his sense by the appearance of the sun , which is not seen in its very body , but by its rays ] . and he further noteth of st. paul , that he had to this purpose denied d both the actual and potential sight of god. no man ( said that apostle ) hath seen god , nor can see him . no man whilest alive can see god as he is , as he dwells in heaven , the palace and throne of his most eminent glory . he cannot behold that now ( unless in such a glymps as st. stephen enjoy'd ) which he shall see after the resurrection , when the vail of this gross body shall be removed ; for to the meek in heart , it is promised that they shall see god. to them shall be revealed that secret of faces , which the jews so often speak of , and adjourn to the future life a . but for the substance of the godhead , it is for ever invisible , the infinity of it [ which tertullian b seemeth to call the fulness of the deity , and denieth to have been seen by moses ] can no more be taken in by mans eye , than a whole circle of the universe can be taken in at the same moment by the glass of a telescope . and for the essence of it , it seems indiseernible , even to the very angels . for although angels be spirits , yet they possessing a space , are of a far differing nature from the divine substance , which filleth and pierceth all things . the ranters , c indeed , professed to see in this life , the very essence of god ; but the true god was not every thing which they dream'd of . now man , in this earthly state , receiving knowledg chiefly from the senses , he is exceeding covetous of sensible helps in his research after the most abstracted notions , which inclination being vehement in the vulgar , who are generally of very gross apprehension ; they pursue not the object of their minds [ be it the most divine and spiritual god himself ] with pure and unmixed reason ; but they at best , blend it with some bodily phantasm , and often dwell wholly upon such an image , and the external object of it ; insomuch that their imagination worshippeth that which should be entertained only as the help and instrument of their mind . so that although the natural desire of a visible object be not the necessary cause , yet it is the occasional root of all that proper idolatry , or image-worship , which divided it self into more kinds , than there are nations in the world . part . of the cure of idolatry by the shechinah of god. god knowing well the frame a and infirmity of man [ though himself did not erect it so as now it stands , with much decay , and many breaches ] , was pleased to condescend to the weak condition of his nature , and to vouchsafe him a kind of visible presence , lest in the entire absence of it , his fancy should have bow'd him down , even to such creatures , to which man himself being compared , is a kind of subcaelestial deity . it pleased then the wise and merciful god , to shew to the very eyes of man , though not his spiritual and immense substance , or any statue or picture of it , properly so called ; yet his shechinah , or visible glory , the symbol of his especial presence . this divine appearance , i suppose to have been generally exhibited in a mighty lustre of flame or light , set off with thick , and , as i may call them , solemn clouds . nothing is in nature so pure and pleasant , and venerable as light , especially in some reflexions , or refractions of it , which are highly agreeable to the temper of the brain . by light god discovereth his other works , and by it he hath pleased to shadow out himself ; and both secular and sacred writers have thence taken plenty of metaphors , dipping as it were their pens in light when they write of him , who made heaven and earth . “ jamblichus in his book of the “ egyptian mysteries , setteth out by light , the power , the simplicity , the penetration , the ubiquity of god. r. abin levita supposeth it to be the garment of god , it having been said by david , that he cloatheth himself with it . maimonides supposeth the matter of the heavens to have a risen from the extension of this vestment of divine light. eugubinus supposeth the divine light to be the empyrean heaven , or habitation of god. and this he thinketh to be the true olympus of the poets , so called , quasi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because it shineth throughout with admirable glory . s. basil calleth the light of god not sensible , but intelligible ; and conceiteth that , after that first uncreated , the angels are a second and created light . such sayings , though they have in them a mixture of extravagance , yet in the main , they teach the same with the scripture , that god is light ; or that there is nothing in the creation so fit an emblem of him , and so fit to be used in his appearance to the world . thus therefore is the shechinah of god described in the prophecy of habakkuk a : god came from teman , and the holy one from mount paran , selah : his glory covered the heavens , and the earth was full of his praise : and his brightness was as the light , he had horns [ or beams ] coming [ or streaming ] out of his hand [ or side ] . whether the shechinah of god ever appeared ( out of a vision ) in light organiz'd in mans shape , i am not certain ; though such a representation be apt to excite the veneration of mankind . for even when herod spake from his throne of majesty , and the light was with singular advantage , reflected from his robe of silver , the amused people were the more readily induced to celebrate him as a god on earth . but of the figure of the shechinah , i profess my self uncertain ; and often ruminate upon the chaldee oracle , which adviseth us , when we see the most holy fire shining without a form or determinate shape , then to hear the voice of it a : that is , to esteem it then the true oracle of god , and not the imposture of a daemon . and such a fire psellus the scholiast on this oracle , affirmeth to have been seen by many men . and i might shew somewhat like it in the instances of abraham and moses . but there has been seen a false fire also : and the massalians , whom epiphanius calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , bending down their head to their navel , professed they saw a divine fire , and received the ardor of a divine spirit , being either deluded by the devil , or deceived into this conceit , by some odd fantasms which arose from the nerves extended in an uncommon posture . now for the shechinah or visible glory of god in this world [ for whether it appeared to any as in the other , till the day-break of the gospel will bear a dispute ] ; it was in all likelihood effected , not by the father whom no man hath seen b , but by the second person in the trinity , the king and light of the world , who was afterwards incarnate . both the orthodox and the haeretical have maintained the visibility of the son , and the invisibility of the father , though upon different reasons . this did origen c , this did the arians . thus bisterfeldius ( in that very treatise d in which he defendeth against crellius the natural divinity of the son of god ) doth maintain that the father is invisible to the very angels ; and that christ even in the ages long before the gospel was the visible image of the father . now the reason why true catholicks affirm the father to be invisible , and the son to be visible , are exceedingly different from those of the arians . for the arians degrading the son to the condition of a creature [ another , a lesser , a second god , as eusebius a of caesarea is bold to call him . ] they suppose him to consist of a visible substance . so maximinus the arian , remembred by st. austin , makes the son invisible only as the angels , by non-appearance ; and the father invisible by reason of his superior and immutable essence . in the mean time this was the creed of the catholicks , that the whole trinity was invisible in one divine substance b . it was also their belief that the son appeared , and not the father , not from any difference of nature , but of order only ; the father being as it were the root or head of the trinity , and therefore not so fitly appearing as his substitute the second person . and they could perceive no more mutability in the logos when he appeared , than in the father , when he not in shape , but by voice , did own him as his only begotten son. and by this reason saint austin c might have answered the arians without asserting as he does , that in the old testament the whole trinity appeared . for the manner in which this appearance of the son of god was effected , i conceive it to have been done by the assumption of some principal angel upon the greatest and most solemn occasions [ without any vital or personal union ] ; and by the ministry of some other holy spirits ; together with an extraordinary motion , sometimes in the air , and thence in the brain ; and sometimes in the brain only . and in this opinion i have been the more confirmed , since i found the concurrence of the very learned and judicious mr. thorndike in great measure d . if i were now to guess what angel was assumed , i would fasten my conjecture on michael the arch-angel , whom the hebrews call the prince of faces , or the prince of the presence . by the son the father made the world e , and what if i say he governed it also , as by his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or word ? for in god we do not distinctly apprehend his way of working , but conceive of it under the more general notion of his will and command . if i declare that the son always acted in the father's name , i make but the same profession which tertullian did many ages ago a , and avoid the anathema which marcus arethusius b , ( or rather which others in the council of sirmium c ) denounced against all who confess not that the son ministred to the father in the creation of all things , and who maintain that when god said , let us make man , the father said it not to the son but to himself . accordingly , where god is said in the old testament to have appeared , they seem to mistake who ascribe it to an angel personating god , and not to the second person , as the shechinah ( or as tertullian d calleth him ) the representator of the father . to this purpose it hath been often noted by others , and ought by me in this argument to be again brought to remembrance , how often there is mention in the ancient paraphrases of the jews of the word of god. neither doth it enervate the force of this observation , that what we translate the word , does often signifie , i , thou , or he. both because several of the places will not admit of that other sense ; and because the jews themselves so commonly own this ; and so often mention the logos or word of the father . philo is very frequent in speaking of the divine logos as the substitute and image of the invisible god , both in his book of dreams , and of the confusion of tongues . it is ( said philo in that latter book ) a thing well becoming those who so join together fellowship and science to desire to see god. if that cannot be , they must content themselves with his sacred image , his word . a saying which eusebius esteemed worthy of an asterick , and accordingly transcribed it into his book of evangelical preparation a . the same jew giveth to the logos the title of the shadow or portraict of god ; adding that god almighty used him as his instrument in framing the world. it is true that by the logos philo doth often b understand the world , which by the greatness , order and beauty of it , declareth naturally the power , wisdom , and goodness of god ; and pleadeth with him in the quality of the workmanship laid before the feet of the workman . but it is as true and manifest that he speaketh also of the logos of this inferior logos , as the maker and governour of it . in his book de mundi opificio c , he calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the divine word , or the word of god , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the image of god. and he says further of it , that it is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a super-coelestial star ; the fountain of all the sensible [ or visible ] luminaries . and he had said in the former page d , that the world was the image of the image , or archetypal exemplar , of the logos of god. part . . of the shechinah of god from adam to noah . this substitute and shechinah of god made adam , and he that gave him his being gave him most probably the law of it . for so the fathers interpret that in st. john , the word was god. that [ or he ] was the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world e . and in this sense we are to expound st. justin the martyr , where he speaketh of the knowledg of god in socrates by the word f . he meaneth not that he was naturally a christian ; but that so far as he was indued with such principles of religious reason as christianity owneth ; he had derived it from the logos or word of god , who made the world , and in it man , a reasonable creature . to him he appeared as well as to others , who sprang from him , helping the mind as soon as it was seated in this thicker region of bodily fantasms . and to adam the logos appeared , i know not whether i should say in the shape of man or in the way of a bright cloud moving in paradise when the wind began to rise a , and asking with a voice of majesty , after his rebellious subject . and that this was the son of god is insinuated by the targum of onkelos in the eighth verse of the third of genesis . the text of moses is thus translated , and when they [ our first parents ] heard the voice of the lord god. but this is the sense of the words of onkelos , and they heard the voice of the word of the lord god. and amongst christian writers i may alledg tertullian b , and st. hilary of poictiers c , who aboundeth in this argument ; as also theophilus antiochenus d , whose words are so pertinent that i cannot forbear the enlarging of my discourse with the translation of them : you will object ( said theophilus ) that i teach , that god cannot be circumscribed ; and yet that i say too , that god walked in paradise . hear the answer i make to this objection . god indeed and the father of all things is neither shut up in a place , nor found in it . for no place is there in which god can [ in such manner ] dwell . in the mean time his word by which he made all things , being the power and wisdom of the father himself , personating the father who is lord of all , came into paradise in his person , and spake unto adam , who in the scripture is said to have heard the voice of god. now gods voice , what is it else but the very logos ( or word ) of god , which is likewise his son. after adam was driven out of paradise , the logos appointed a kind of shechinah in the appearance of angels to guard the way of the tree of life . these i conceive were a cherub and a saraph , and that the latter ( an angel in the opinion of maimonides himself * ) was meant by the flaming-sword turning every way ; the versatile tayl of a saraph or flame-like winged serpent , not being unaptly so called . and this conceit when i come to explain my self about urim , and the brazen serpent , will seem less extravagant than now it may do in this naked proposal . and yet as 't is thus proposed , 't is not so idle as that of pseudo - anselm a , who will have this guard to be a wall of fire incompassing paradise . in process of time , when cain and abel offered to god their eucharistical sacrifices , the son of god again appeared as gods shechinah ; and testified it may be his gracious acceptance of the sacrifice of abel by some ray of flame streaming from that glorious visible presence , and re-acting to it ; whilst he shewed himself not pleased with the offering of cain by forbearing ( as i conjecture ) to shine on his sheaves , or to cause them to ascend , so much as in smoke towards heaven . and with this conjecture agreeth the translarion of theodotion in these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and [ the lord ] had respect to the oblations of abel , and set them on fire . that seemeth to be the most ancient way of answering by fire , some obscure characters of which we may discern in that lamp of fire which passed betwixt the pieces of abrahams sacrifice b . and much plainer footsteps of it are to be seen in the contest of elijah with the prophets of baal , whom that true prophet of the god of israel vanquished by that sign , triumphing also thereby over that false deity which they so vainly and with battologie invoked c . i doubt not but god vouchsafed to men many other appearances of his glorious shechinah , besides those granted to adam and abel , before he expressed his high resentment of the immorality of the world in the flood of noah . but we have no large registers of the transactions of those times . part . of the shechinah of god from noah to moses . this eminent declaration of god as a god of judgment , by sending such a deluge , not having its due effect on cham : god with great justice withdrew ( as i conceive ) this glorious shechinah from him and his line , which continued his wickedness as well as his name . from them he withdrew it especially ; though to the rest it appeareth not to have been a common favour . cham and his race being thus left to the vanity of their own brutish minds , that race in the first place worshipped the sun as the tabernacle of the deity ; that being the object which next to gods shechinah , did paint in the brain an image of the most venerable luster , and perhaps likest to that glorious flame of gods shechinah which had formerly appeared ; for so glorious was that planet in the eyes of the very manichees in after-times , that they esteemed it the seat of christ after his ascension and installment in heaven . i have guessed already , that this kind of idolatry was exercised and with design promoted at the building of the tower of babel . now towards the prevention of that impious design the shechinah of god appeared on the place . for so novatianus argueth from those words in the eleventh of genesis a , let us go down . it could not ( said he b ) be god the father , for his essence is not circumscribed ; nor yet an angel , for it is said in deuteronomy * , that the most high divided the nations . it was therefore he that came down , of whom st. paul saith , he who descended is he who ascended above all heavens . so that the arabick version [ the angels came down * ] must be interpreted of that part of the shechinah which is made up by their attendance on the son of god. whilst god was thus angry with the race of cham , it pleased him to vouchsafe ( though not in the quality of a daily favour ) the appearance of his shechinah to that separate or holy seed from whence his son , not yet incarnate , was to take the substance of his flesh . a great instance of it we have in the appearance which he vouchsafed to abraham , who often saw the shechinah of god , and in that manner communed with him : so great was the ignorance of the jews , and causless their malice when they raged against the son of god , because he professed himself to have existed before that ancient patriarch . such fall under the heavy sentence of the council called at sirmium , a city of the lower pannonia , where the eastern bishops concluded on a creed against photinus , who haeretically maintained , that christ appeared not before he was born of the virgin. of that creed this is one of the decretory clauses a , whosoever saith that the unbegotten father only was seen to abraham , and not the son , let him be accursed . the second chapter of the ecclesiastical history of eusebius is wholly spent in the proof of the pre-existence of christ. and in that place , as also in his book of evangelical demonstration b , he insisteth , amongst many other examples , on that of abraham , to whom almighty god did once by his son shew himself a while in the common similitude of a man at the oak of mamre ; the shechinah in its especial luster being for a short season intercepted . that place , from this occasion , was for many ages esteemed sacred ; so high a respect there is in man for the visible presence of a divine power . but such things being apt to degenerate into abuse , the same place by degrees became sacred in the sense of the heathens ; that is , polluted with many idolatrous superstitions a . at length the piety of constantine b the great , did there erect a church for the worship of christ , who had appeared in that place in a like form ( they say ) to that which he afterwards assumed with personal union . another appearance was vouchsaf'd to abraham , when the judgment of fire was imminent over sodom . moses witnesseth , that he who revealed this overthrow to the patriarch , was truly god , whilst he introduceth abraham using towards him the divine style of the judg of all the earth ; and that this lord and judg was the son of god ( whom the father hath appointed to judg the world ) , eusebius c thinketh he hath warrant to say from the words of the same moses . for so the father interprets the prophet when he speaks d of this lord [ the word , the sensible descending shechinah ] raining from the lord ( or invisible father ) fire and brimstone out of heaven [ or the region of the clouds ] . and in this particular the council of sirmium e is so peremptory and so severe , that it anathematizeth all who affirm those words [ the lord rained from the lord ] to have been spoken , not of the father and the son , but of the father raining from himself that dreadful fire and brimstone . this lord then , is the same with him of whose appearance we read in the chap. . of genesis . it is said in the verse of that chapter , that god went up from abraham ; so runs the hebrew text. but the chaldee paraphrast calleth him who ascended , fulgur dei ; that is , the luster of the divine shechinah drawn up , as it were , towards the firmament of heaven . of the appearance of three in human shape to abraham , st. hilary of poictiers discourseth at large f . and in that discourse he contendeth , that the person to whom abraham did particularly address himself , calling him his lord , was the son of god , attended then only but with two visible angels . and this interpretation seemeth more probable than that of s. cyril of alexandria g , who because three appeared , and abraham spake as unto one , concludeth thence an apparition of the trinity in unity . the same s. hilary h conceiveth the same lord to have formerly appear'd to hagar , whom he observeth to give to him the like titles of lord and god i ; and to have receiv'd from him k the promise of a numberless off-spring . moses himself , before he mentions these titles given by hagar , had indeed call'd him who appear'd to her l by the name of an angel , or the messenger or officer of the lord. but even that name , if spoken with emphafis , is not improperly ascribed to the second person or logos , who was the shilo ( that is , as grotius doth interpret it ) the sent of god m . of the name angel there given to the shechinah , s. hilary delivers his opinion after this manner n : to agar ( saith he ) spake the angel of god. and he was both god and angel , god of god ; and called angel , as being the angel of the great council o . so he is called ( saith tertullian p and styled a messenger , not as a name designing his nature , but his office. and they are superficially skill'd in philo the jew , who know not that he calls the logos both gods image and his angel q . jusiin martyr also sheweth to trypho the jew , that the god who appeared to abraham r , was the minister of the universal creator ; and he afterwards s gives this as the reason why the word is call'd an angel ; to wit , that he may be known to be the minister or substitute of the father of all things . justin martyr might here have respect to the words of st. paul s , who teacheth that all things are of the father , and by the son. the son was that angel of god who strove with , and blessed the patriarch jacob. hence jacob in grateful memory of that blessing , call'd the place peniel , having there seen the face , that is , the shechinah or image of god , personated by the logos his son. that shechinah , though it appeared without human figure , might not unfitly be called the face , because it was that divine presence , to the majesty of which ( as to the face of a prince ) the religious subjects of the true god , made their application . this , again , is the opinion of eusebius a , and st. hilary b , and justin martyr c ; our three former witnesses . this last-named father telleth trypho the jew , that it was the son of god who appear'd both to abraham and jacob ; and that it was absurd to think the immensity of the godhead , leaving the heavens , should it self appear in a narrow and limited space on earth . and the forementioned fathers of the council of sirmium d , denounced in their creed a solemn curse against those who should maintain that it was the unbegotten father , and not the son , who strove with jacob. whilst god by such appearances as these , encouraged true religion in the holy line , the ungodly race , especially of cham , did further blot out the image of god , by receiving the impressions of numberless idols , of which some excelled others ; but none were worthy the veneration they paid to them . the idols which admitted of much better apology than many of their fellows , and which approached nighest the shechinah of god on earth when figured , were mighty potentates and benefactors . and so the author of that book de mundo , which hath been commonly ascribed to aristotle , representeth god a as some puissant king of persia , sitting in his royal palace at susa or ecbatane , and giving laws to all asia , and receiving intelligence of all its affairs . besides this more generous idolatry , there were many other kinds , and those so apparently ridiculous , that barely to repeat them were in effect to deride the nations guilty of them . amongst other places egypt was the nursery of these follies . there every thing which could help or hurt , or represent , and be assumed by a daemon , or acted by one of his impostures , was conceived to have in it a divine power , and received religious worship . the rains of aethiopia swell their river , and break over into fruitfulness ; and the nile is straitway a god. some natural or political cause preventeth or removeth some annoyance , and the effect is ascribed with divine praises , to the vain and insufficient b talisman [ for as jamblicus speaking professedly of their mysteries , doth inform us , they conceived a divine power , able to procure or prevent good and evil , did straightway adjoin it self to that piece of matter , which was congruously chosen and figured according to some coelestial aspect ] . the constellations are by fancy ( and such as is sometimes injudicious enough ) formed into the shapes of certain creatures on earth ; and those creatures are worshipped after having been supposed either eminently to contain the virtues , or with singular perception , to be sensible of the operations of such knots of stars . the seed of abraham sojourning in this land , which abounded with idols , and with a great number of external rites , and being by custom very prone to them , and as it were moulded into a ritual temper ; it pleased that god who condescendeth sometimes as an indulgent father to lisp with infants , to consider their infirmity when he led them out of bondage by the hand of moses . he therefore by the same moses gave to that people such an oeconomy [ a dispensation containing a visible shechinah , and a great many ceremonies ] as might innocently gratifie their busie tempers , and sensitive inclinations , and divert them from the worship of false gods , and from those abominable formalities with which in egypt those idols were observed . this if it needeth to be avouched by authority , after a serious view of the state of egypt and israel , in their parallel and disparity ; i may cite to my purpose that excellent interpreter of the scriptures st. chrysostome . a at what time ( said he ) god delivered the hebrew people from the egyptian troubles , and barbarous tyranny of pharaoh ; seeing them still to retain the relicks of impiety , and to be addicted even to madness , to all things which fall under the senses ; and to be struck with the admiration of beautiful temples ; he himself commanded that a temple should be made for them , excelling and obscuring all others , not only in the magnificence of the matter , and variety of art ; but also in the form of its structure . and as a good father who has at length received a son returning to him after much time spent in dissolute company , does with honour and safety , put him into circumstances of greater abundance , lest being reduced to any straits , he calls to mind his former pleasures of debauchery , and be afresh affected with a desire of them : so god perceiving the jews infected most sottishly with propenseness to sensible things , does in these very things make something for them highly excellent , that they might never for the future linger after the egyptians , or after the things of which they had experience , whilst they sojourned amongst them . part . of the shechinah of god from moses to the captivity . before this temple was built or shewn , so much as in the model of it to moses , the word of god a assuming an angel , appeared to him in the luster of flame in a bush on mount horeb. moses calleth him in the second verse of the third of exodus , the angel of god ; and god in verse the fourth ; and in the sixth verse he stileth himself the god of abraham , isaac , and jacob ; and in the eighth verse he is said to have descended . “ now he ( saith justin martyr b ) that called himself the god of abraham , isaac , and jacob , was not the universal creator , but the minister of his will. with him agree eusebius c , st. hilary d , and st. ambrose e . the words of st. ambrose are to this sense : the god himself who was seen by moses , saith , my name is god. this is the son of god who is therefore called both angel and god , that he might not be thought to be he of whom are all things ; but he by whom are all things . philo the jew himself * calleth the voice to adam , to abraham , to jacob , to moses from the bush , the effect of the logos of god. this lord afterwards when the people of israel had under the conduct of moses , begun their journey from egypt , did miraculously direct them by the continued shechinah of a pillar f of cloud by day , and of fire by night . this we read in the th of exodus . he who in that chapter is called the lord , is in the following chapter g called the angel of god , who as formerly he had gone before the camp for their guidance , so now the egyptians pursuing , he stood behind it as their defence . with allusion to this appearance eusebius having first proposed it as the title of his chapter a , that the logos of old appeared , and then began the chapter with some places of scripture relating to the cloudy pillar : he proceedeth in making this demand , who was he that spake , but the pillar of cloud which had formerly appeared to the fathers in the figure of man ? and indeed whilst moses is not contented with the promise of an assistant-angel b , but expresly petitioneth for the continuance of gods presence ; he leaveth not us in want of a commentator to tell us what kind of angel was present with him . that angel no doubt it was who is called by that name in the hebrew of the th verse of the th of ecclesiastes , but by the seventy interpreters , the face of god c . lactantius will have this angel to have gone before the israelites , and divided the waters d . his power might do it , but that his shechinah did so , is contrary to the sacred text e . the people being arrived nigh mount sina in arabia , moses especially beheld the shechinah of god , whilst the word assuming , it may be a principal angel , and being attended ( as jupiter by his satellites , if i may compare small things with great ) by a numerous retinue of other blessed spirits , did with solemnity f and terror deliver the law. where the psalmist alludeth to that solemnity in which god appeared with many chariots of the heavenly host ; he in the very next verse useth the words which the new testament interpret of christ , thou art gone up on high , thou hast led captivity captive . as if both at sinah and sion , and the mount of the messiahs ascension , god had triumphed in the shechinah of his son. he ( saith tertullian a ) who spake to moses , was the son of god , who was always seen . that is , whenever the divinity vouchsafed a visible appearance , it was not by the father but by the son. this pamelius reckoneth as one of the errors of tertullian ; but by doing so , he perhaps ran into one himself . tertullian doth not only affirm this , but secondeth his authority with a reason . for jesus , said he , not moses , was to introduce the people into canaan . theodoret in his commentary on the second to the colossians , mentioneth certain defenders of the law , who induced others to worship angels , saying that the law was given by them . they had been much more in the right if they had urged the worship of christ the angel of that covenant . the law was given by angels in the hand of a mediator b , which whether it be meant of moses or of christ , is a dispute amongst many ; though the margent of some of our english bibles c interpreteth it of the former . that title might have been as well applied to christ , not yet god-man , yet the minister of the father . and so st. chrysostome and theophylact do apply it . and st. chrysostome teacheth that therefore christ gave the law , that he might have authority , when it was convenient , to put an end to it . and they who stiffly oppose such ministration of the logos , give suspicion to jealous heads , as if they look'd towards racovia . for if there were a second person , he surely must be fit for that great office . but i forbear to urge a place of uncertain sense , and chuse rather to consider what the same apostle saith in his first epistle d to the corinthians . he there saith , concerning the israelites , that they tempted christ in the wilderness . and this christ whom they tempted , is in the old testament called jehovah . hence therefore it followeth , that he who appear'd to the people in the wilderness was the logos of god. this opinion which ascribeth to the logos the delivery of the law , is by the learned hugo grotius in his notes on the decalogue , branded with the name of a grievous error . and it is not the manner of that great wit to rail at opinions without offering reasons for his contrary judgment : and here he offereth two . the first he taketh from those first words of the epistle to the hebrews : god who at divers times , and in divers manners spake to our forefathers by the prophets , hath in these last times spoken to us by his son. the second he taketh from the second and third verses of the second chapter , in which the holy author preferreth the gospel before the law , because the law was given by angels ; ( that is , saith he , by the angel sustaining the person of god , and for that reason mentioned by st. steven a in the singular number , and by many more such spirits making up that glorious train : ) but the gospel by the lord jesus the son of god. upon the seeming force of such reasons , i find curcellaeus b and others c agreeing in the sentence of grotius . now for the first objection , i may remove it out of the way by saying no more than that god spake formerly by his son as his logos or minister , and in the latter times by him , as his son incarnate , or as begotten by the holy ghost of the substance of the blessed virgin. the same author of the epistle to the hebrews saith of the throne of christ , as gods logos , that it was from everlasting ; and yet we well know that his kingdom as messiah , mediator incarnate , or the word made flesh , was but then at hand when his harbinger john took upon him the office of baptist : and justin martyr thought not himself in an error , when he said a , that the logos both spake by the prophets things to come , and also by himself , being made subject to like infirmities with us . the word was gods minister b before and under the law , but not in the same quality as under the gospel . in those times he spake not himself immediately ; for how can a divine subsistence be , meerly of it self , corporally vocal ? but he spake ( i conceive ) by some principal angel , assumed ( as hath been said ) without personal union , assisted by him in a miraculous motion of the air or brain . under the gospel he spake with his own mouth , as having assumed human nature into unity of person [ this word person ( if i may make a digression of two or three lines ) deserveth not the clamour with which socinians hoot at it ; especially when we consider it , as now we do , with relation to christ as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , face , or personating shechinah of god ] . they then that rightly distinguish betwixt christ as gods word and shechinah under the former covenants , and as mediator and gods son incarnate , under the gospel , will not much be perplexed with such places of scripture as speak sometimes of christs praeexistence , and oftner of his coming into the world in the fulness of time . and thus much monsieur le blanc himself taketh notice of c in his theological theses : he there favoureth the opinion of christs praeexistence . he owneth him as the minister of god of old , but not properly as mediator ; which ( he saith ) including christs priestly office , did of necessity require not only a mission of one divine person by another , but a divine person incarnate . now from that which i have suggested in this answer to the first objection of grotius , it will be a matter of small difficulty to infer a reply unto his second . for an assumed angel being us'd by the divine logos as the immediate minister of himself to the people , and christ speaking with his own mouth under the gospel as god-man ; and the great mystery of the gospel consisting in the manifestation of god in the flesh ; the apostle had sufficient reason to prefer the gospel before the law. we have before us a matter of lesser astonishment , when we think of divinity speaking by an angel to which it is not vitally united , than when we contemplate it as manifesting it self in the quality of god-man , in unity of person with human nature . such were the thoughts of st. hilary of poictiers a , who in our present argument thus discourseth : then god only was seen in [ the shew of ] man : he was not born . now he who was seen , is also born . for athanasius b , he contendeth that christ was call'd the son long before he was incarnate ; and that moses himself knew of the future incarnation , as well as he saw the present appearance of the unincarnate logos . i conclude then , notwithstanding these objections , that there is almost as good warrant for reading the preface to the decalogue in this manner [ christ spake all these words , and said ] as the ancient saxon prefacer c had thus to read , as he does , that part of the fourth commandment [ for in six days christ made the heaven and the earth ] . god , who by his logos gave all physical laws to nature , did also by the same word give the moral law to israel . in the beginning of that law ( saith st. austin d god prohibited the worship of any image , besides one , the same with himself ; that is to say , the logos his son , whom moses saw ; it being promised to him e , that god should apparently converse with him , and that he should behold the similitude or image , or , as the seventy render it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the glory , or glorious shechinah of god. whether , at the giving of the law , moses saw the shechinah in human figure , his text does not inform us ; yet it doth not necessarily follow , that moses or aaron saw no figure , because the people did not . for there was much more danger in them who had had the education of slaves , and who labour'd under gross and sensitive apprehensions , than there was in moses a learned and prudent person , of abusing such similitude in the framing of idols : and one would think that at the receiving of the tables a he saw something in human figure ; for he is said to have seen the back-parts of god , or his shechinah , or the shew of a man inverted , or rather a less degree of luster in the shechinah ; neither he nor any man living being able to behold the face or full luster of it , which perhaps might then appear to the attending-angels . so that the desire of moses was , in effect , like that of eudoxus , who desir'd to see the sun just by him . if it should have been granted , he must have pay'd down his life as the expence of his curiosity . and indeed the seeing of the face of god in that sense , was , at that season , the less necessary , because god had , just then , made a promise of his shechinah , or presence , in the tabernacle b to go along with him , and to support him against the incredulity of the people , to whose eyes , such a shechinah as they could bear , was in wisdom to be accommodated . whilst moses was beholding this pattern in the moant , and receiving laws from the presence of god , the people seeing neither , as at his departure they had done c ; the glory of god in clouds and flame ; nor , as in the wilderness , the pillar of fire and cloud ; nor himself whom they judg'd a cause of the shechinah of god with them ; and remaining forty days and forty nights in this forsaken estate , as they were apt to think it , importun'd aaron for some symbol of gods presence , with which he might conduct them , as moses had done in former times . aaron wearied with their cries , made them a golden image after the manner of some part of gods shechinah which he had seen with nadab and abihu , and the seventy elders , in a certain ascent of the mount a . he saw thenthe god of israel , that is , as the seventy expound the hebrew sense , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the place , or the throne ; or as the targum of onkelos renders it , the glory , or shechinah of god ; not , as oleaster affirmeth , the pavement only , which is mentioned afterward . and in the shechinah there was an appearance of angels ; the author to the hebrews , where he opposeth the gospel to the law in divers particulars b , mentioning an innumerable company of angels , in opposition to a smaller company on mount sinah . the attending-angels were usually cherubim c , and the cherubim appear'd with heads like those of oxen ; and because the head only was of that likeness d , therefore ( if i conjecture aright ) lactantius e and st. jerome f call'd this golden image the golden head of a calf . this i conceive to have been the figure of a cherub , though it pleaseth not the painter , who describeth it by the face of a young round-visag'd man. thus much i collect from the prophet ezekiel . that prophet , in the vision of the wheels g , saith of them , that every one had four faces . the first face was the face of a cherub ; and the second face was the face of a man ; and the third the face of a lyon ; and the fourth , the face of an eagle . if then the face of a cherub was the face of a man , then each wheel had not four differing faces , but one had two faces of human figure , the second being said to be the face of a man , as the first was said to be the face of a cherub . but if these two had been alike , the prophet would then have alter'd his style , and said , the first two faces were the faces of a man. but it is evident , by comparing this place in ezekiel , with the tenth verse of the first chapter , that the face of a cherub is the face of an ox. for there he mentions the three latter faces , as he doth here , calling them the faces of a man , a lyon , an eagle : but for the other face , called here the face of a cherub , he calleth it there the face of an ox. and the comparing of these places , induced the learned critick ludovicus de dieu a to be of this opinion , that cherub signifi'd an ox , and was derived from the chaldee word cherub , he , or it , hath plowed . now by the worshipping of this figure of the face of a cherub or ox , the sottish people chang'd their glory ( b ) , the glorious image or shechinah of god ( call'd , as was even now said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by the seventy , in the th of numbers ) into the similitude of a man , though useful creature ; whose likeness could , at best , be but the symbol of an angel , which was no more to the shechinah of god ( nor so much by a great deal ) , as one spoke of a wheel is to an eastern emperor in a triumphant chariot . they turn'd their glory ( saith jeremiah c ) into a thing which did not profit them , in idolum , into an idol ( as is the version of the vulgar latine ) ; a helpless statue . they turned the truth of god ( as it is in st. paul d into a lye : the true shechinah of god , into an idol , which is vanity , nothing of that which it pretendeth to be ; having no divinity attending on it . aaron made it as gods symbol , which in truth it was not ; and the people worship'd it beyond his intention , and after the egyptian manner ; and in their hearts wishing they were again in that land of ceremonious idolatry . this folly kindled the wrath of god and moses ; yet it did not quite remove his favour : for moses was a second time call'd up into the mount , and thence he brought the renewed tables and the statutes of israel , and the pattern of the tabernacle ; and at his descent , rays of glorious light did stream from his face , as if he had been a second shechinah , reflecting the borrow'd beams of the first . the tabernacle which god had now discover'd , and which moses was ready to frame , was but a model of the temple built many years after by the magnificent solomon . and in it god gave the people , instead of the more aenigmatical and idle hieroglyphicks of the world in egypt , a more excellent scheme of it in this great and typical fabrick , representing , in the three spaces of it , the three heavens , which the jews so often speak of , the elementary , and starry , and supercoelestial regions . st. chrysostom a speaking of this workmanship of god , calleth it the image of the whole world both sensible and intellectual . and he attempteth the justification of his notion , by the th to the hebrews , and particularly by the th verse , in which the holy places made with hands , are call'd the figures of the true or heavenly places . in this manner , then , god pleas'd to help the imaginations of the jews , by a visible scheme of his throne and footstool . it were endless here to take particular notice of all things relating to the tabernacle or temple : but if i take not the ark into my especial consideration , i shall be guilty of greater negligence than any foolish astronomer , who in his description of the heavens should leave out the sun. this ark of the covenant consider'd in all the appendages of it , god vouchsafed to the jews in place of all the statues , or creatures , or appearances of daemons , which their fancy was apt to adore , and in which daemons did already , or might afterwards counterfeit some shews of the glorious shechinah of god. men ( saith maimonides * ) built temples to the stars , and placed in them some image dedicated to this or the other idol in the heavens , and gave it unanimous worship . hence god commanded that a temple should be built to himself , and that the ark should be put into it , and that in the ark should be deposited the two tables of stone , in which it was written , i am the lord thy god ; and thou shalt have no other gods besides me . the whole of it was in singular manner typical of god-man , who came to destroy the works of the devil . this virtue of christ appearing on the ark was manifested in the miraculous conquest of it over dagon a , a sea-god worshipped in palestine in the city of ashdod . he fell before the ark , and laid on the ground a handless and headless idol , without more shew of majesty , power or wisdom than the trunk of a tree . this ark was not in it self properly an image , but a chest over-laid with gold as a conservatory of the precious 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the two tables . yet thereby god by way of hieroglyphick , though not of image or picture of representation , did offer himself to the eye as a supreme governour ruling the commonwealth of israel by a written law. this moncaeus b would have to be taken from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the chest or coffin of apis , mentioned by plutarch c . but that was a thing of later date , and not known to the ancient egyptians . it belonged to the greek serapis , who is said thence to take his name . the whole of the ark seems to some the triumphant chariot * of god moved by angels , set forth by the form of beasts , who drew the chariots of the eastern kings : whose pomp the poets exalted into heaven in the chariots of their gods . this of the true god is represented as moving by angels in the clouds , not as any fixed throne in it self : the power and providence of god , whose chariot hath wheels with eyes , making all the world its circle ; though often it took its way to the tabernacle and temple . why cherubims were added , the cause hath been often intimated already ; to wit , by reason that the logos appearing as gods shechinah , was attended with angels , and especially with cherubim . though maimonides d reckoneth the cherubim to be of the lowest order excepting those which he calls ischim ; such in his conceit as spake to inspired men , and were by them seen in prophetical visions . for the entire figure of the cherubim , i am not desirous to inquire with nice and accurate diligence , whether it were such as the angels usually appeared in , or whether it were a mere emblem of their properties . the scripture shews that they move swiftly , as flame and wind , and all understand that wings are the instruments of a quick motion . the scripture also representeth them as dazled at the glory of god , and therefore needeth no further comment on the faces of the cherubim as covered with their wings . but curiously to interpret each particular spoken of them , and of the ark in which they were placed , is the ready way to create such significations by our fancy , as the wisdom of god did never intend . of this kind sure is that conceit of s. greg. nyssen a , who will have the rings of the ark to signifie the angels sent as rings or pledges of favour to the heirs of salvation . it is enough if we look upon the ark as an holy vessel representing gods majesty with his coelestial retinue , and the rule of his law , and as a type of christ , without forcing every staff , and ring , and pin , into unnatural allegory . and for some such reason mr. calvin b did on purpose forbear to pry too critically into the ark. betwixt the cherubims , and upon the cover of the ark appeared as in a chariot of majesty , the divine logos in admirable lustre , yet tempered with clouds . so he appeared to the people when moses was taken up into the mount. so ezekiel in his vision c saw him in a cloud with brightness about it ; and this he calls the glory upon the cherubims . and doubtless that vision was in part a vision of the temple , though not wholly after the pattern of the tabernacle , but as furnished by the voluntary devotion of solomon , who added oxen and lions to the brazen-laver . these some think to have been steps to his future idolatry : as if he began to allude to the lions under the chariot of the sun d , mentioned by horus apollo . but these images being of servile use there was the less danger in them . touching the appearance of the logos in a cloud of brightness , we may further observe , that the glory of god was said to have appeared in or at the tabernacle : that in the psalms e the ark is called gods glory , or his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( the word of the seventy ) his beautiful luster ; that the same david speaks of having seen f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( the word of the seventy for gods shechinah ) the glory or radiant presence of god in the sanctuary . and lastly , that the cherubims on the ark are in the ninth chapter to the hebrews called cherubims of glory . now it further appeareth , that it was the logos whose glory shone on the ark , by the many places of scripture which speak no otherwise of the ark than as of the type of god incarnate . christ before his incarnation sitting on the propitiatory as his throne , with the ark and law at his feet , ( for that holy vessel is in scripture called his foot-stool g ) , seemeth to shew himself before-hand in the offices of king , and prophet , and priest. as king , whilst he sits on his golden throne , and exhibiteth the law ; as prophet , whilst he answereth when consulted from between the cherubims ; with relation to which oracle the hebrews called the sanctuary the house of counsel h ; and as a priest establishing his seat as a propitiatory or mercy-seat . when i come in due place to speak of the word made flesh , it will be proper to insist on those citations of scripture which point him out to us as the true ark of god. in the mean time i will content my self with that one of the apostle , who speaking of the mysteries of the divine wisdom and love in the incarnation of christ , alludeth manifestly to the ark , and to the faces of the cherubim turned towards the shechinah : which things ( saith he a the angels [ called as before was noted , the cherubims of glory , or of the glorious presence of god ] with flexure of curiosity look into . this ark of the mosaick covenant is in the psalms b called the face , that is , the shechinah of god. nay the scripture elsewhere c giveth to it , taken entirely and together with the presence of the logos , the very name of god. god having condescended to his so eminent shechinah , it was thenceforth certainly the more unlawful for the people to frame , without divine permission , any statues of a true or a false god. and thereby the second command newly given , was much enforced : for how could they be confident in setting up any new shechinah , when one was provided them by god himself . a shechinah which did not lessen gods majesty as images would have done in the opinion of clemens of alexandria d , and in the judgment of truth it self . for this was not any representation of the godhead , but only a very glorious visible sign of gods invisible presence and ready assistance . the ark then being neither god nor his image , was never to be worshipped , though it had no doubt a very high respect payed towards it , and was separated from the uses of common vessels . it was a sacred chest , yet not to be adored , like that of the mammonist , for a god. it is true ( what volkelius e observeth rightly against bellarmine , who alledgeth the instance of the ark in favour of images ) there is great difference betwixt such an image or embleme as was constituted by the express command of god , and to which he was by his word eminently present ; and those which he neither commands , nor consecrates with his presence . but here it ought not to be imagined , that the ark or cherubims were by gods appointment objects of worship . the heart was only to worship the immense god , appearing in the shechinah ; though in that act the reverence of the body could not but pass towards the ark ; and the mind it may be did not always use nice abstraction , any more than we now do , when with civil reverence we bow to the king , not considering just then his clothes and chair of state apart from him ; yet then it is to the prince , and not to his robes or seat that we bow . it is therefore absurd to say with bellarmine f , that the cherubims over the ark were of necessity worshipped with the ark it self ; for neither were ador'd , no not the luster of the shechinah it self ; it not being immediately assumed by the logos , but only used as a sign of his gracious presence ; but god only , who was the object of the worship , whilst they were but circumstances and appendages of his glory , towards , and not to which the external sign of adoration used by the high-priest was directed . for we must not here conceive of the typical ark , as of the real ark , the lord incarnate ; in whom the humane and divine nature are so united , that the christians have worshipped him always as god-man , though as st. cyril professeth in his first book of answers to julian , they had all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or man-worship , in abhorrence . i know that very often a the words of david are alledged for the worship of the ark ; but with as little ground , as other scriptures are often produced by men who first take up opinions , and then seek colour for them in the bible . we read the words b after this manner : fall down before his footstool , for it , or he , is holy ; and we have amended the translation with reason ; it being read of old , worship the footstool of his feet : a reading indiscreet as that of lifting up the hands unto thy holy ark most high , in the singing psalms c which are rather permitted than allowed . the divine poet intended no more in that place to urge the israelites to a precise adoration of the ark it self , than any other poet d designs to worship the very knees or feet of the king , or pantofle of the pope , when in his raptures of humility he speaks of falling prostrate before them . genebrard himself thinks david to make allusion to such rites . and the hebrew reading la-hadhom is surely to be interpreted at his footstool , unless the lamed signifieth nothing ; which dr. vane either did not , or would not observe when he * so magisterially accus'd the protestants of translating falsly . a greater doctor by far hath reckoned together the brazen serpent and the cherubims f , as other things than images of worship : so far he is from that , that he calls the cherubim on the ark a simple ornament accommodated to that throne or chair , whence oracles were dispensed . but st. hierom it seems establisheth the worship of the ark in these words : the jews in time past did worship or reverence the holy of holies , because there were the cherubims , the propitiatory , the ark. so t. g. g translateth him citing his th . epistle ad marcellam . but if he had pleafed , he might have left out the word worship , and used that of reverence only . the holy father indeed in that epistle a penned by him for paula and eustochium , owneth a reverence due to them . so do we very readily an high honorary respect , but not a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( the word of the seventy ) a giving them the homage of the external sign of bowing in a temple , and in our time of devotion ; for that so circumstantiated belongeth to god. so did putting off the shoos ; it was a giving as 't were to god by that sign possession of that place ; although a forbearing to trample rudely there might be also a relative respect to the consecrated place . neither did st. hierom in that place , design such reverence or worship ; for in the following part of the epistle which t. g. did forbear to cite , the manna , the rod of aaron , the golden altar which the high-priest did not worship , although he reverenced them , and separated them from vile use , are reckoned in the same classis of things to be rever'd with the ark and cherubims ; as also the sepulchre of christ , which the primitive christians no more ador'd than they in socrates b worshipped the body of babylas the martyr , who danced about his coffin singing psalms , and deriding the worship of idols , whilst they removed it into the city of antioch from daphne c . but in this argument i need not abound . others have said a great deal in it , and i will not transcribe them , but rather refer to them d . i will note only here an odd assertion of grotius e , which i wonder how it dropped from the pen of that great man : whilst ( said he ) the catholicks ( meaning the papists ) profess that they exhibit the signs of honour to christ , whom many protestants acknowledg to be present in the sacrament , they are no more 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , bread-worshippers , then the jews were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , worshippers of the ark when they exhibited the honour of god at it . but the jews did not worship the ark at all , much less as the body of the logos , whilst such catholicks worship not only christ as present , but that very substance which is under the shew of bread as the natural body of christ ; and therefore if it prove bread , they worship bread , whatever they think it ; for the false opinions of men change not the nature of things ; and bread is bread , and the worship of that which is bread is certainly bread-worship ; though it be judged of , and honoured as another thing . and barnabas and paul were no other persons , though the lycaonians thought one to be jupiter and the other mercury , being induced to that misbelief , and an inclination to offer sacrifice to them , by perceiving a miracle wrought by a word of their mouth a . this ark which i am speaking of as the instrument of the shechinah , but not as an object of worship in it self , was a while placed in shiloh ; but it was not till davids , or rather solomons time properly , fixed in one certain place of the holy land : god causing his favour to be valued by the suspence of it , and shewing thereby that he was not confined to any particular place . besides the shechinah in the tabernacle , and afterwards in the temple , god vouchsafed the jews another especial presence of his logos by the high priest , and the sacerdotal appendages of the ephod and breastplate . of the appointment of these we read in the eight and twentieth chapter of exodus . and in that chapter it is said concerning the breast-plate of the high-priest b [ called also the breast-plate of judgment ] that the urim and the thummim , should be put into it . our english bible hath retained these words in their original ; and where they are translated , in other versions , the reader is still left uncertain of their meaning , and sometimes led into a mistake . such is like to be the fate of those who are guided meerly by the vulgar-latine version [ doctrine and truth ] ; or that of the seventy [ demonstration and truth ] ; or that in the syriack [ the lucid and the perfect ] ; or that in one reading of the samaritan translation [ elucidations and perfections ] ; or lastly , that of the arabick [ dilucidations and certainties ] . our english translators , and arias montanus , and onkelos , spake e'n as intelligibly , when they only transcrib'd the very hebrew words of urim and thummim . i beg leave of the reader , in this dark and disputable subject , to interpose my conjecture ; and it is at his pleasure whether he will favour or reject it . if he shall do the latter , he will not be offensive to me ; for i pretend not , in this argument , to demonstration . thus , then , i conceive of this levitical appointment . i suppose the high-priest , consider'd especially as a type of christ , to be the walking-temple of god. his garments and breast-plate , together with the urim and thummim , i take to be the apparatus of this shechinah , in imitation of that other whose instruments were the ark and the cherubims . of the high-priest philo confesseth a , that they esteemed not of him as of a meer man ; but they look'd on him as [ a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] the divine word . and for that reason ( saith b dr. jackson ) the breast-plate was call'd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for his ornaments , grotius c doth parallel them with those of the temple . the four colours ( said he ) are the same . the seven garments d , if you reckon in the plate of gold , answer to the seven lamps ; the twelve jewels to the twelve loaves ; the inner-linings of the ephod , to the vail and six curtains . and it is observable , that in hosea e the more fixed , and this walking shechinah , are joined together . the place to which i refer , is that in which god threatneth , that the children of israel shall abide many days without a king , and without a prince , and without a sacrifice , and without an image [ or a standing or statue , as the margent readeth it ; without a fixed shechinah , such as that of the ark ] and without an ephod ; and without f teraphim [ or urim ] . christopher castrus judg'd these to be the same : and a very learn'd and excellent person of our own nation g , with whose leave i publish this discourse , hath given us arguments to persuade to the belief of that which castrus just hinted without proof or illustration . to him i send the doubtful reader , taking it my self for a most probable opinion , that urim were teraphim ; and also , that teraphim were seraphim ; of which the sin might be first mispronounced as zain , and afterterwards as tzade , and at last as thau . and both urim and seraphim have the same signification of burnings h . by thummim i mean something of a very different nature ; and , in due place , i shall shew my opinion concerning it , and offer to the curious a new , and i hope an inoffensive and probable notion . but order requireth that i first speak of urim , seraphim , or teraphim . where i would build something new also , though upon an old foundation . i cannot here assent to the opinion of grotius , who i is inclin'd to think the teraphim of the same form with the cherubim . he citeth , for this , the authority of st. hierom ad marcellam ; and there i find that father k so expounding the theraphim in the third of hosea , as if they were [ not the statues , but ] the pictures of cherubims upon the ephod , in allusion to those on the vail of the tabernacle l , and he further observeth , that where the word cherubim , in exodus , is written without the letter vau , it signifieth pictures ; but where it is written with it , it generally signifieth living creatures . the text , sure , in his time was written otherwise than now it is ; for now the cherubim on the ark and on the vail are written alike . whether those on the vail were intire pictures or figures of cherubim , as onkelos calls them , or [ opus plumarium ] a kind of feather-work , according to the vulgar and samaritan versions , or representation of the wings of the cherubs , may deserve the further consideration of philologers . but whatsoever the opinion was which st. hierom had of teraphim , it is certain that he supposed the seraphim to be distinct from the cherubim . the cherubim he representeth , as the more immediate attendants on the throne of god ; the seraphim , as angels dispatched on lower ministrations a . and he sheweth it to be the custom of some in his days , to use in their prayers this compellation , thou who sittest upon the cherubim and seraphim . and though in his comment on the sixth of isaiah , he disliketh that form ; yet that displeasure was not conceiv'd against the distinction of cherubim and seraphim ; but at the insinuation , by those words , of this doctrine , which he esteemed false , that the seraphim were the angels appertaining immediately to the highest shechinah , or heavenly throne . if cherubim had been the same with urim and seraphim , moses would scarce have changed their name in the pursuit of the same discourse ; first calling them cherubim no less than seven times in the space of five verses b , whilst he speaketh of the mercy-feat ; and then giving them a new title of urim , whilst he describeth the breast-plate , which was but the lesser and more exposed ark. teraphim he might well lay aside , because of their private use , or rather their abuse ; for which reason the name of baal was never appli'd to the god of israel , though in it self proper enough . but let us come nearer to the point , from which we have , as yet , kept at some distance . urim and thummim , whatsoever was their mysterious importance , were , in themselves , material things , and things distinct from the gems ; for they were to be put into the pectoral c . who the maker of them was , it is not distinctly reported . they are not found in the inventory of bezaliel's workmanship , unless they are included in the general name of the pectoral , used for it self and its contents . in enquiring into their nature , we must consider them with some relation to gods shechinah on the ark. for the high-priest was , here , a type of the logos ; and the pectoral , a quadrangular hollow instrument with rings , and wrought without like the veil of the holiest , was a little model of the ark of the covenant . wherefore , for urim , teraphim , or seraphim , i conceive that they answer , in part , to the cherubim , which were images of angels . in part , i say ; for it is my conjecture concerning these seraphim , that they were images or symbols of ministring-angels in the form of fiery flying serpents ; as cherubim were such symbols with the faces of oxen. and towards the probability of this new and odd conceit , i offer the following conclusions , which i desire the reader jointly to consider ere he derides it . first , the word saraph it self , is used in signifying a fiery flying serpent . this is its signification in the book of numbers a , where it is said , that the lord sent seraphim , or fiery serpents among them . and again , it is there remembred , how god said to moses , make thee a saraph , and set it upon a pole. to which i add that in the book of deuteronomy b , a burning serpent is called nachash saraph . secondly , there were in egypt , arabia , lybia c , and other places , flying fiery serpents . the prophet isaiah mentioneth such creatures d ; and kimchi , on the place , saith they are found in ethiopia ; meaning , it may be , the arabian ethiopia . they were called fiery , not only because of the heat of their venom , causing extraordinary inflammations and thirsts in the body bitten by them ; but also because they appeared such when they flew in the air , being a kind of animated meteors . hence abarbanel saith of such flying serpents , that they were reddish , after the colour of brass e : if that was their natural colour , great addition might be made to it by the swift motion of their wings , and the vibration of their tayls , in the bright atmo-spheres of arabia and egypt . thirdly , in the earliest ages and inhabited countries of the world , the creatures on earth principally reverenc'd , were oxen and serpents . that oxen were so , has been already shew'd ; as likewise that the cherubim , appendages to the s●…echinah in the most holy place , had the faces of such beasts . serpents were lately worship'd in america , as appeareth from acosta , and the discoverers in hackluit . and we read in mr. gage f , of the great golden snakes adjoin'd to the idols tezcatlipuca and vitzilopuchtli . and , of old , serpents were sacred in egypt . herodotus mentioneth the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 g or sacred serpents about thebes , which when they were dead , were buried by the superstitious in the temple of jupiter . we see no table of isis , or osiris , or bac●…hus , without a serpent h . the sacredness of that beast is said , by pignorius , to have prevail'd among the arabians , ba●…ylonians , carthathaginians , baeotians , epirots , sicyonians , epidaurians , romans . he might have added the indians , with maximus tyrius a ; and with erasmus stella b the borussians and samogetes . and the hereticks , call'd ophitae or ophiani , have not escaped the notice of any who have looked into the history of the christian church c . for the worship both of serpents and oxen together , it is represented in the egyptian hieroglyphick d of a winged ox with humane face , vomiting flames , having a globe on its head , and under its feet , an undulated serpent . serpents were thus honoured for many reasons . because they could twine themselves into all figures e . because there was a mighty energy in their venom f . because of their mighty bulk , by which some of them were able ( saith diodorus g ) to conquer elephants . because ( saith vossius h ) they live to great age ; are of quick and piercing sight ; renew their youth by putting off their skin . last of all , by reason ( saith pignorius i ) that the heathen were overpowered with the craft , malice and pride of the devil who deluded man in that shape , and would , as it were , redeem the loss he sustained in the curse of that creature , by turning it into a venerable idol . fourthly , serpents , thus sacred , were not the ultimate objects of worship , but the symbols or shrines of some angels or daemons . thus the serpents of thebes , spoken of by herodotus k , are said , by him , to be sacred to jupiter . and the symbol of cneph , was the symbol of an agatho-demon l . fifthly , there were , not only such living symbols and shrines , but also images made by mens hands . such we see in the tables of isis , and in the images of cartari . such we read of in the scripture , under the name of teraphim , which were much in use in the world a while after the flood . in the ramessean obelisk a , a good daemon is represented by an asp sitting next osiris . and a dragon , a creature of the serpent-kind , is usually annexed to the statue of aesculapius b . sixthly , such good angels as made up a part of the shechinah of the logos , and also ministred in the world , seem to have given some occasion to such symbols and images by their appearance , as in the form of winged oxen or cherubim ; so by their appearance as of the most eminent sort of winged serpents , with beautiful faces , it may be , of men as had the harpies , though they had the tail of a serpent c , or rather of eagles , if they appeared not with serpentine heads . the sacred one in the sphinx of kircher d had the head of an hawk or eagle : so had the famous 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in egypt , as eusebius relateth from zoroaster e . the egyptians call'd him cneph , the phenicians , a good daemon . now , if the seraphim had not appeared in some such form , it would be very difficult to give any tolerable account of the temptation of adam and eve by a daemon in the shape of a serpent . that serpent is ridiculously painted in the form of a creeping one before the fall : and it is impossible to conceive our first parents so stupid , as to have entered into dialogue with such a creature without any astonishment . but being used to the shechinah of the logos , and to the appearance of ministring angels , shewing themselves in some such winged form ( for that they abode not f one night in paradise , is by many judicious persons esteemed a groundless fancy ) ; it is easie to conceive , upon that supposition , how they might entertain some familiar discourse with a creature assuming that image in very splendid and glorious manner . the text assureth us that the form is now changed by gods curse ; and sure the change was more considerable than the alteration spoken of by mr. mede a , who thinketh that the serpent went formerly on the ground , though with his head and breast reared up and advanced . it seemeth a more probable opinion by far , that the change was made from the form of a splendid flying saraph , to that of a mean creeping serpent , not moving aloft in the air , but licking the dust . and much more probable , doubtless , it is than that dream which kircher b chargeth on maimonides ; as if that rabbi had affirmed , that the devil deceived eve in the shape of a camel. but maimonides c saith only from the rabbies in medrasch , that the serpent was rode on , and was as big as a camel ; and that he who rode on him was samael , or satan . methinks a part of the punishment of adam and eve declares the shape of the serpent or daemon , by whom they were tempted . for it is said that god guarded paradise against them by a cherub and a flaming-sword , which ( as hath been noted already ) was esteemed by the jews a second angel ; and may be aptly imagined a saraph , or flaming-angel , in the form of a a flying fiery serpent , whose body vibrated in the air with luster , and may be fitly described by the image of such a sword . and whereas maimonides d interpreteth this sword of the property of an angel , of which the scripture speaketh as of a flame of fire ; he saith nothing distinctly applicable to the second angel , but what was common also to the cherub ; whilst something is pointed at in the text as peculiar to the second angel called a flaming-sword . it may be further noted to our present purpose , that the word saraph or seraphim is used in scripture both to denote ( as was said ) a fiery flying serpent , and also an angel of a certain order whom isaiah representeth e as having wings , and flying to him with a coal from the altar . accordingly buxtorf in his little lexicon in the word saraph , thus discourseth : saraph signifies a fiery and most venemous serpent . seraphim is likewise a name of angels , who from the clearness and brightness of their aspect are seen as it were flaming and fiery . but there is an authority in this argument to me more valuable , not for the notation of the word , but for the sense so accommodate to my notion . it is that of tertullian in two places . the first place is in his book de praescriptione haereticorum ; there he suggesteth from others , that a eve gave attention to the serpent as to the son of god. the second place is in his book against the valentinians . there he saith b , that the serpent from the beginning was one that sacrilegiously usurped the divine image . this soundeth as if the devil in serpentine form , had represented part of the shechinab of the logos , and that eve conceived him to be an angel appertaining to his glorious presence , and a minister of his pleasure ; and now come forth from him . now i here suppose the seraphim or urim to be two golden winged images , not from the number of the word urim ( for the jews use that number frequently of a single thing or person ) but from that of the images called cherubim , which were two symbols placed on the ark which is typed in the pectoral . and i do not think so much ( as doth maimonides c that the cherubim were therefore two , lest the form of a single one should have been mistaken for the figure of the one god ; as that these two ( like the model of the temple ) had reference to earth as well as heaven , and , besides angels , represented moses and aaron as the ministers of the logos under the law ; as the four creatures in the vision of ezekiel typed out the four evangelists as christs servants under the gospel . neither did the number of the cherubim prevent misconstruction . for st. hierom reporteth of some , that by the two seraphim [ cherubim he meaneth ] they understood the son and the holy ghost d . in the pectoral i suppose seraphim , and not cherubim ; this being an oracle for civil affairs e , and not properly the oracle of the temple ; and the cherubim being according to st. hierom before cited , the seven spirits about gods throne , and according to david the chariots on which he rides ; and the seraphim of inferior attendance ( though appendages of the shechinah ) and of more frequent ministration abroad in temporal matters ; such as that of the captivity of judah , in the declaration of which to isaiah , a saraph assisted . for the answer of god by urim , i suppose it not to have been conveyed through the mouths of these images , which were to be put into the ark f , whilst nothing is mentioned of the taking them out . but it seemeth most probable that as the logos spake with a voice out of the glory above the cherubim , and not by them , their mouths being turned from the high-priest ; so the high-priest , who here was the logos of the logos , the substitute and type of christ , spake by inspiration over the pectoral and saraphs . neither is it fully proved from the book of samuel a , that god spake vivâ voce ; as the annotations published out of the library of the archbishop of york , would have it to be : for it may well be said , that god spake when through miraculous inspiration he spake by the mouth of his prophets or priests * . the urim or seraphim were put into the pectoral , and not set upon it , as the cherubim were on the greater ark ; not so much for the concealment of them from the eyes of the people prone to idolatry , as ; for some other cause ; for the ark was often carried in procession with the cherubims on it : unless we shall say that the upper cover of the ark , or mercy-seat , which is mentioned in scripture as a distinct piece of artifice from it b , was not taken along with it . but to me this seemeth one reason : the high-priest was here the type of christ-incarnate , who in the days of his flesh , though he had angels ministring to him , did not often please to occasion their appearance . it may be here objected , that this notion of the seraphim in the ark , ascribeth to god the setting up as part of his shechinah , the image proper to the devil , for such is that of the serpent . i answer , that the contrary is here true ; for the groveling serpent doomed by god is such a symbol ; and such a one the heathens worshipped . neither was any other distinctly used in egypt , or ( so far as i have read ) in any other country of the world . for though the egyptian cneph had wings , yet he was not a winged serpent , but a compounded symbol , of which the tayl of the serpent was but a small part adjoined to the breast , wings and head of an hawk or eagle . and eusebius relateth from philo byblius , that the egyptian hieroglyphick of the world was a circle , of which the serpent ( the symbol of a good daemon as they conceived ) was but the diameter ; the whole figure being almost like to the great Θ of the greeks . and by that it appears that the sacred egyptian serpent was the creeping one , and not the winged one of arabia , whose company they so detested , that they deified the bird ibis for destroying it . but now the glorious winged serpent was the symbol of a good ministring angel. and accordingly god used such a one in the wilderness ; and it is known by the name of the brazen-serpent , or saraph c . of that inferior kind of shechinah it is proper to speak here ; it being to be understood from the contents of the foregoing discourse . this then seemeth no other than a winged saraph , put on a pole a , or standard like a roman eagle ; and constituted as a symbol of the presence of the logos , so far as concerned his divine power and goodness in healing them by miracle , who were bitten with fiery serpents . that this was some sort of the presence of the logos appeareth from himself in the new testament , where he opposeth to it as antitype to type , the natural body of himself crucified . as moses ( said he b lifted up the serpent in the wilderness , even so must the son of man be lifted up . 't is the son of man here plainly made the antitype , and not the old serpent , ( as a learned man c would have it ) destroyed indeed on the cross , but not said by the scripture to be lifted up upon it . and though the saraph was not christ , yet it was the symbol * by which he appeared ; and by its stretched-out wings it may seem to the fancy at least , very aptly to express christs crucifixion with arms extended . if it be here said that to make this serpent a saraph , and a part of christs shechinah , is to overthrow that which was suggested before of the concealment of the seraphim in the ark , and of the cherubim behind the veil , from the eyes of the people prone to idolatry , this being exposed to their daily sight : i answer in two particulars . first , it was agreeable to the wisdom of god to give some type of christ as crucified , that being one great part of that substance of the gospel of which the law was a shadow ; though he pleased not to do it too plainly in the shape of an humane body on a cross. and no other type ( i think ) occurreth under judaism , but this of the brazen saraph . secondly , here was not such occasion of idolatry , as might have been taken from the ark ; for that was an oracle , and a divine light shone forth , and a divine voice was heard , and signs of adoration to god were there commanded . but this was no oracle : it doth not appear that at this symbol any extraordinary cloud or glory shone ; that hence any coelestial thunder was heard . only men were helped in thinking on god by the symbol of an angel , which executeth gods will on earth , whilst a secret virtue from the unseen god made them whole . he that turned himself towards it ( saith d the book of wisdom ) was not saved by any thing that he saw , but by thee that art the saviour of all . and if the people had been then prone to idolize that symbol , it had not remained undefaced till the days of hezekiah . this then is my conjecture ( and i offer it no otherwise ) about the urim ; and likewise about the brazen serpent . for thummim , i imagin it to be a thing of a very differing nature . so do they who take it to be deriv'd from the jewel in the brest-plate of the high-priest of egypt , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it is true , such a brest-plate there was in egypt , and it is mentioned by diodorus siculus a , and aelian b . and diodorus supposeth it to have consisted of many gems ; but aelian calleth it an image made of a saphire . it is also confessed that the seventy interpreters c do render thummim by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but here two things are to be observed : first , this egyptian pectoral ( deserving the name of truth , it being put on as an ornament for the bench in the execution of justice and maintenance of truth , as we learn from diodorus and aelian ; and not in order to the delivery of oracles ) may as well have been taken from the brest-plate of the high-priest of the jews . there is no mention of it in herodotus , and before the graecian times . and diodorus when he speaketh of it , he referreth to those days when heliopolis , thebés and memphis were the three head-cities in egypt , out of each of which ten judges were chosen ; and for on , or heliopolis , it had a publick temple built in it for the jews , with the consent of ptolomy philadelphus , by onias the high-priest , who was then by the power of antiochus deprived of his authority and office in judaea . and concerning the egyptian pectoral , its name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is plainly modern . it may in the second place be observed that upon supposition that this pectoral was originally egyptian , it doth not follow that the seventy meant the same thing by their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the egyptians did by theirs . it may be rather guessed , that those interpreters translating divers words and phrases , which grated on egyptian matters , in such prudential manner that ptolomy might not be offended ( as is manifest that they did in several places of their version ) ; they made use of this name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as of a name which would at once recommend them to his favour , and well express the sense of scripture , or the meaning of thummim . now if urim be images in the lesser ark of the pectoral , answering in some sort to the cherubim on the greater ark ; what possibly can thummim be but a copy of the moral law put into the pectoral ? a copy written in some roll * , or engraven in some stone according to the pattern of the tables brought down from the mount ? for what else was there in the other ark ? nothing sure ; though some rabbins , and after them the learned hugo grotius believed otherwise a . josephus b thought nothing else to be there ; and he had ground for his opinion from the holy scriptures . for it is said in the first of the kings c , that there was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which moses put there at horeb. and this is repeated in the second d of chronicles . and to say as some adventure to do , that the manna and the rod of aaron were there in the time of moses , and taken out in process of time , lest the manna should putrifie , and the rod be worm-eaten , ( as if they could any-where have been so long preserved without miracle ) soundeth very like to a rabbinical whimsey . for the places of scripture alledged by grotius in favour of his opinion , they answer themselves . for in exodus e it is not said that moses commanded aaron to take a pot of manna and to put it into the ark , but that he required him to lay it up before the lord , or before the ark where the lord by his shechinah then dwelt . also in numbers f , it is not said that god commanded moses to put the rod of aaron into the ark , but that he required him to bring it before the testimony , that is , the ark of the covenant . wherefore that of the author to the hebrews g , [ in the holiest of all was the ark of the covenant , wherein was the golden pot that had manna , and aarons rod that budded , and the tables of the covenant ] , must be interpreted as if in signified both in and by . so ( saith capellus upon the place ) it is usual for them who live by rome , to say they live in it . so in cariathjarim in the book of judges h signifieth , nigh it . they pitched ( saith the text ) in kiriath-jearim in judah : wherefore they called that place mahaneh-dan unto this day : behold it is behind kiriath-jearim . neither doth gorionides say ( as grotius maketh him ) that the manna and rod were in the ark ; for he speaketh of the holiest , and saith they were there , not determining in what part of it they were placed . thummim was not an image as the urim were ; neither doth the scripture ever say that god answered by thummim . it saith not i that god did forbear to answer saul by urim and thummim , but only that he did not answer him by urim . for the moral law was a standing rule , and not an extemporary oracle . and we may observe from diodorus siculus , that the egyptian judg whom he speaketh of , when he put on his glorious 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sign or image , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , had also the law in eight books laying before him , [ aelian and diodorus tell this story in differing manner ; and it may be the thirty judges were so many of the seventy elders , and the eight books of law were the ten commandments ; and the saphire or gems in the pectoral were the twelve precious stones according to the number of the tribes ; all used by the high-priest of the jews at heliopolis , where was schismatically aped the worship and judgment of jerusalem . for in such matters the blunders of historians are often more shameful than these . nay , what if the book containing the worship of the gods , and bound about with scarlet-threads , mentioned by the same diodorus a , should be the copy of the moral law in the ark , whose outside was wrought with gold , with blue , with purple , with scarlet , and fine-twined linnen ? this is none of my faith ; yet many such imperfect narrations are to be found in him and other historians , who write of things in such ancient and dark times . for the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( though that was given to the pectoral , or to the illustrious gem or gems on it , and not particularly to the law ) yet to the law of god it well agreeth ; david saying concerning it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , thy law is truth * . as congruous is the name of thummim , or perfections , the same royal prophet saying * , thy law is perfect . 't is perfect and without blemish in it , though the laws of men are stained with divers spots and imperfections . it is perfect as a straight rule , it bendeth not to mens corrupt wills . it is a compleat rule extending to all our needful cases . it is exceeding broad , whilst there is an end of all other pretended perfections * . of the perfection of this law the son of sirach speaketh , saying b , a man of understanding trusteth in the law , and the law is faithful unto him as an oracle ; or [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the reading of the alexandrian copy of the seventy ] , as the asking of [ or the answer to the interrogatory at ] urim . in which words let the reader well consider whether the author does not oppose the law to the oracle as the thummim to the urim , saying in effect , the law laid up in the ark is as certain a rule to go by in the moral course of a mans life ; as the oracle from above the ark where the urim was an appendage of gods shechinah , was a direction in extraordinary cases . and whereas urim is only mentioned , why scaliger should say c , the meaning is , the law is faithful to him as urim and thummim , he himself best knows . but it may be thought from the force of the premisses , that he has in effect rendred the saying such a kind of tautology as this , the law is faithful as the law. another place there is worthy our observation in this argument , and the rather , because it is a more canonical portion of scripture . it is that of s. john c who saith , that the law was given by moses , but grace and truth came by jesus christ. these words , if i will serve my hypothesis , i must thus paraphrase . the thummim or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the law was received from gods substitute the logos , by moses , who delivered it to the people ; but the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the christian law , of the gospel of grace , came , not only from , but by , jesus christ , the logos made flesh , as was said , a verse or two before ; and he , even god-incarnate , did publish it with his own mouth . if this notion hath any truth in it , then that prayer of moses , or blessing of levi d [ let thy thummim and thy urim be with thy holy one ] may be thus expounded ; let thy law [ the ordinary rule preferable before any extemporary oracle ] and also thy extraordinary inspiration , together with thy blessing , be present with the linage of aaron consecrated to the priest-hood , though thou wert angry with him for his carriage at the waters of meribah or massah ; and , for that reason , deniedst him an entrance into the land of canaan . but i will plainly acknowledge , that notwithstanding all here said by me , that may be true which munster said e , that no mortal man can now tell what the urim and thummim were . but , in aiming , with our conjectural bolts , at truth , as in shooting , if the white be not hit , it is some kind of felicity to come nigh the mark. now though the logos appeared on the ark , both in the tabernacle and the temple , and though he was , also , present , with this lesser ark the pectoral ; yet he did not limit himself to these holy instruments , and the places of them . he appeared , elsewhere , sometimes , when the emergent occasion was remote from these arks , and when the privacy of the revelation to those who were not high-priests , was expedient , or necessary ; unless we should say , that the less solemn , and less majestick apparitions were made by angels . that it was the logos who shew'd himself to joshuah a , giving to him a promise of defence , is the joynt opinion of justin martyr , eusebius , and theodoret b , and likewise of one more modern , yet not unworthy to be named amongst them , the most learned archbishop of armagh d . but a fragment of an antient and venerable greek scholion , produced by valesius , will have it to be michael , and not the very son of god. be it the one , or the other , i hold ●…ot my self much obliged to concern my self , as a party , in the dispute . only i am inclined to think it the logos , because the place of the appearance , was sacred ; joshuah pulling of his shoes , in token of a divine , rather than of an angelical presence . little is recorded of gods shechinah from the time of joshua to david . but david in his psalms , is very frequent in celebrating gods presence in the sanctuary on mount sion . and of his being there where god was present by his image or shechinah ( in the temple , though not in the holiest place of it ) , after deliverance from his enemies , who stood in his way both to the holy city and holy temple , some a interpret these words of his in the th psalm b ; as for me , i will behold thy face ( or shechinah ) in righteousness : i shall be satisfied when i awake with thy likeness . or ( as i find it expounded in the septuagint c ) when i shall see thy glory , or glorious presence : thy temunah ( the word in the hebrew ) thy image , of the logos . in solomon's time the ark was placed in a most magnificent temple , which when it had received the holy vessel , a cloud , and the glory of the lord d , a most venerable mixture of light and darkness filled the holy house . it is called in the book of kings e thick darkness , i. e. such whose solemnity hindred the sight of any other object but the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or glory of the shechinah , which dazled the eye , rather than enlightned the medium . in the first book of kings this is omitted by the lxx , but in the d of chronicles f it is mentioned . and by those interpreters 't is called barely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or darkness . but they had before g called it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the cloud of the glory of the lord ; a cloud like that which , in s. matthew h , is called a bright one , and said to overshadow the apostles , when christ was transfigured and owned as gods son , by a voice out of the cloud . after the dedication of this house , god appeared in a dream , a second time , to solomon i , having done so once before at gibeon k , and made a promise to him that his eyes and heart , that is , his especial presence , should be in that consecrated house . in the time of ahab , elijah being in israel , and not in judah , though he worshipped not god in the sanctuary ; yet the logos of god , when he was fled as far as horeb , gods mountain l , instructed him in a still small voice , after his spirit was made solemn , by wind , earthquake , and fire ; for it was the lord ( saith the text ) that spake then to him , not a created angel . but that god ever spake at dan or bethel , or appeared in any glory , we neither read nor believe . so that the setting up the symbol there was presumption , and the trusting that god was present there , idolatry : for that was an act due to gods true presence , misplaced on his false one , and such as was not only false , but , in terms , forbidden . in the times of isaiah s. hierom m observeth that the idolatries of the people were exceedingly encreased ; yet himself saw the shechinah n in a vision : and st. john o sheweth that it was a vision of the logos , saying that isaiah saw christs glory . the israelites rather increasing , than repenting of , their provocations , it pleased god to withdraw his presence , and , as he is represented in the visions of ezekiel p , to go up from the earth ; and to permit the powers of babylon to destroy the holy temple , and to suffer the glory of it , the ark , to depart , and never to appear again in its former condition ; for the d temple did , in this particular especially , come short of the first . and i know not what to make of a passage in the jew q , whose cippi hebraici are translated by hottinger ; and who there mentions a part of the ark extant in sion in his time ; unless i esteem it ( for sure 't is no other ) a jewish fable . that it may not go alone , i will add a story of equal credit out of the elucidarium ascribed to s. anselm . there r the disciple asking what became of the ark of the covenant , the wise master answers thus : it was hid , at gods command , by jeremiah , in the sepulcre of moyses , when hierusalem was ready to be destroyed by the babylonian forces . and , in the last times , it will be brought out by enoch and elias ; god revealing it to them . part . . of the shechinah of god , from the captivity to the messiah . such jews as had true apprehensions of the god of israel , and sincere devotion to his service , did in such sort honour his shechinah , that when the holy chest and the temple were no more to be seen , they worshipped god towards the plaoe where they formerly stood . thus in chaldaea , did the prophet daniel . both the jews in banishment , and the jews in the land were , that way , to direct their faces in prayer . and the rabbins say a that a devout jew had , on purpose , a chamber with a window that way , and that the babylonian jews prayed with such direction in the chamber of daniel , an antient house of stone . to daniel ( as to one highly favour'd of god , and to a prophet living in the dawning of the gospel ) god discovered his presence in a more ample and distinct manner than ( so far as we read ) he had formerly done ; more eminently than to isaiah or ezekiel . damiel in a vision b beheld the shechinah of god , as it were in heaven . the father and the son were personated in this scene , or , rather , the godhead and the word incarnate . this i find to be the opinion of st. hierom c , who expoundeth daniel by st. paul where he speaketh of the logos , as equal with god , yet taking upon him the form of a servant . in those days god vouchsafed such plain visions to the prophets , and such plain prophecies of the messiah , that the two tribes , the issue of the true worshippers in judah where gods shechinah dwelt , though they returned from chaldea , a soyl as fertile in producing idols , as egypt it self , yet they had them in greater abhorrence than before . they looked back , many of them , on their punishment of exile and bondage for former idolatries : they looked on their present miraculous restitution by the power and mercy of the god of israel ; and they look'd forward towards the messiah , the image of god , whose kingdom was at hand ; and these thoughts preserved them , in great measure , from pollution with idols ; though the ark was perished , and prophecy ceased a , and the holy pectoral ( said to be worn , even out of the city , by the high-priest in his meeting of alexander ) was rather an ornament than an oracle . at length , after the ceslation of prophets for more than years ; after the apparition of an angel to zachariah in the temple ( a sign that the oracles , of the ark , and urim , had ceased ) ; it pleased him to come in the flesh , whom daniel saw as in glory , and to be , for a season , on earth , as it were the eclipsed shechinah of god. such an appearance , for a time , our infirmity , and the oeconomy of the gospel required b . to this messiah , as god-man , the things in the ritual law of moses had especial respect , though a vail was upon them . and , indeed , it would seem to derogate from the wisdom of god , and the nature of his worship which is chiefly spiritual , to conceit that all the apparatus of the temple reached no further than the amusement of the eye . they , therefore , that will reach the sense of the law , must suppose a mystery in it . thus did st. stephen c and st. paul d those excellent interpreters of moses . these the christian fathers have followed as their patterns . clemens alexandrinus e alluding to those words in the seventh of isaiah , nisi credideritis non intelligetis , addeth words to this purpose ; unless ye believe in christ , ye will not understand the old testament , which he by his own presence expounded . and s. gregory nyssen f concludeth from the material cherubims covering with their wings the mysteries of the ark ( how strongly from thence , i will not say ; ) that there is a more deep sense of the text of moses . part . . of the cure of idolatry by the image of god in christ god-man . amongst the mosaic symbols , the ark certa●…nly was none of the meanest . this holy vessel , without peradventure , had most singular reference to christ as god-man , who , at least from his baptism , hath been in that quality of god-incarnate , exhibited to the world as the divine shechinah . at bethlehem the son of god was born , the town where the settled place for the ark of god was discovered to david . so much we learn from the words of solomon a in the sixth verse of the hundred and second psalm . he , there , repeateth a saying of david his father , concerning the ark ; lo we heard of it at ephrata . castalio plainly confesseth b that he understood not what that expression meant . for my part , whilst i am in pursuit of the present argument , i cannot think the text to be tortur'd by st. hilary , c who will have it to confess christ as the true ark of god , discovered , typically , at bethlehem , to david , and afterwards manifested in the flesh , to the world , in the same city of david . it is heard of in ephrata , ephrata ( saith he ) is the same with bethlehem , where our lord was born of the virgin mary . there , therefore , the rest of god is heard of , where , first of all , the only begotten god inhabited a body of humane flesh . this is the ark which rested in the tribe of judah d ; for out of that tribe our lord sprang e . to this ark , as soon as he came into the world , the very princes or wisemen of the gentiles bowed down in the cave at bethlehem , the star , or miraculous meteor , as an appendage of the shechinah , standing above it . this ark tabernacled among men a and they saw his glory , when baptized ; when transfigured . this ark giveth , through jordan , or the baptismal laver b a passage into the mystical canaan . on this ark , or holy vessel of christs body , when he was baptized by john in jordan , the glory of the shechinah appeared : a mighty lustre ( as grotius hinteth ) hovering , after the fashion of a dove , upon these waters of the second creation . on him the holy ghost dwelt , or rested c as god was said to do in the tabernacle . in him , as the law of god in the ark , and the will of god known from the oracle of the shechinah , were deposited all the treasures of wisdom and knowledg d . he is the great oracle of god , whom , by a voice from heaven out of a bright cloud , or gods excellent glory e , we are commanded to hear . in him was the sum of the law and the prophets : and he was the light of israel , of the gentiles , of the whole world . to this logos , clemens alexandrinus f ascribeth the mysteries of the jews and gentiles , as to the great teacher of them , before his incarnation . so that , he , as a divine subsistence , and substitute of the father , giving the law of reason to adam ; the jewish law , to that people , by moses ; and to all the world the christian law , or will of god ; no title could be more proper for him , than that of the divine word . and this logos was not only the wisdom but the power of god , and meriteth the name of the ark of gods strength g . in him dwelt the fulness of the godhead bodily . the deity sojourn'd in an ark of flesh , or within the vail of it * . and in this sense i think some of the ancients are to be interpreted , who called christ so often 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a a god-carrying-man , as our language may truly , though harshly , render the greek word ; though nestorius abus'd the signification of it so far as to make it intimate a duality of persons in christ. this ark was the face or visible presence of god , and he that had seen him as messiah , had in that sense seen the father b . this body was not the very godhead as muggleton blasphemeth , but the godhead did in it shew forth it self to men in signs of mighty power , holiness , and wisdom . this evangelical ark was the image of the invisible god ; not indeed the very picture or statue , but ( as st. hilary stileth him c ) the personator of his essence . it is true he saith of some of the jews d , that they had never seen the shape of the father , his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or appearance . and this he saith truly in two respects , though him they saw when he thus spake to them . for first there were none of them who saw him baptized or transfigured ; for in the same place he denies that they ever heard the voice of god. and then these were unbelieving jews , and therefore saw him as meer man , as one of the worst of men in their conceit , an impostor and magician , and not as the messiah , the son , the incarnate shechinah of god. to such therefore as under those misapprehensions of him , he saith elsewhere , why call you me good , there is none good save one , that is god. however christ in truth , though not to the eyes of infidels , was the image of the invisible father ; and one whose design was to put all the idols and images of the superstitious world a under his feet . of this the prophets foretold b , and this the world hath seen fulfilled ; oracles by degrees ceasing , and now scarce any footsteps remaining of that triumvirate of gods , ( for their gods had been men , and those some of them no heroes in virtue ) , jupiter c the god of the heavens , neptune of the sea , pluto of the earth . it is said by the arabick author of the prodigies of egypt d , that when noah named one god , idols fell prostrate . it is more true of him who began the new world of the gospel , that when he appeared as the image of the one true god , idolatry vanished before him e . and the fathers will have it , that when in his childhood he went into egypt , and was brought to memphis , the egyptian idols fell at his feet f . and st. hierom ( whose manner is as much to cite in his commentaries , the opinions which he had collected , as to set down his own ) does tell of some g who applied to christ and the virgin those words of isaiah h , behold the lord rideth upon a swift cloud , and shall come into egypt , and the idols of egypt shall be moved at his presence . from this image of god in his son incarnate , this ark of flesh , divinity often shone on earth before his instalment at gods right hand . the mighty power of god in his life , miracles i , preaching ; and sometimes in his attendants the angels ; and in his very bodily appearance . thus at his transfiguration his raiment shone as the light , he being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 k , the brightness of the glory or shechinah of god. and afterwards such heavenly majesty shewed it self in him , that those who came to apprehend him as a malefactor , fell at his feet as before a god. this jesus was the ark of the new covenant and of the testimony of god ; the witness of god faithful and true , as he is stiled in the revelation l of saint john. jesus was in effect the whole house of gods especial presence ; the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( the name which philo gives the tabernacle ) or the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( or , it may be , if it were rightly printed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( as josephus calleth the zodiack or the sun moving in it ) the portable , the walking temple , who ( like the rolling sun which dispenseth his influence far and near ) went about doing good ; having no resting-place for his head , till he was fixed on mount sion above . this is the ark of god , exalted first on the cross , and then to heaven . whence god commandeth his blessing , sending him by his spirit and gospel to bless m , and to turn all of us from our iniquity . this ark is the true mercy-seat a ; the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or propitiatory , as he is called in the epistle to the romans b , and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as st. john calleth him c , that is , the propitiation for our sins . st. hierom commenting on those words in the version of ezekiel d , in the d . chapter and th . verse , [ from the lesser settle to the greater settle ] , and observing them to be rendred on this wise by the seventy interpreters , [ from the lesser to the greater propitiatory e ] : he applys the lesser propitiatory to christ in the form of a servant , and the greater to christ glorified in the heavens . here is then both the aaron and aharon , the true ark and priest of the most high god. this ark , or rather this entire temple of god * like the tabernacle in shiloh f , seemed for a time forsaken , possessed by the great philistin , [ for what is stronger than death ? ] and laid in the dust ; but god raised it up after three days in greater glory , and so as that it is never to fall again . this ark was after a few days taken up into the true sanctuary of god , where it remaineth till the restitution of all things ; and whither our eyes and hearts are to direct themselves in all religious worship . from that sanctuary he appear'd in a glorious light to his first martyr st. steven when well awake , and whilst he directed his countenance towards heaven , whither his spirit was ready to take its way . he being full of the holy ghost ( or divine energy g looked up stedfastly into heaven , and saw the glory of god , and jesus standing on the right hand of god. thence also he appeared to saul in a light so vehement , that for a time it took away the use of his eyes . thence he sent the holy ghost at pentecost , become now as it were the substitute and shechinah of the glorified jesus . this hovered as a glorious flame over the heads of the apostles , declaring them thereby the representatives of christ on earth . under this notion christ is worshipped by true and intelligent christians . this was the meaning of the fathers in the council of constantinople h , who denounced anathema against those who professed not that christ ascended was intellectual flesh , neither properly flesh , nor yet incorporeal , but visible to them who have pierc'd him without grossness of flesh . they believ'd it a great point of christianity that jesus god-man sate in the heavens in illustrious visible glory . and this st. john saw in a vision , in which the logos i , the god omnipotent k , the king of kings , and lord of lords l , or lamb , god-man m appeared on his throne , crowned , and with eyes like flames of fire . to this effect is a saying of eusebius cited by bishop andrews on the second command . i suppose he meaneth eusebius dorylaeus , for he referreth to the second ephesine synod , though i have not met with it in the acts of that council . eusebius it seems , telleth constantia , that she must not any longer desire an image of christ as he is infirm man. for now ( said he ) his glory is much greater than it appeared on the mount , which if his apostles were then dazled with , how can it now be expressed ? this visible glory of christ the ancients supposed situate in the eastern part of the heavens : and it occasion'd ( as i think ) their directing of their worship towards the east . the gentiles who worshipped the sun differed much from this external direction of their faces . for they respected especially the east-point by reason of the sun-rising thence a . and often at other parts of the day they altered their posture . they sometimes vall'd themselves , saith plutarch , and turned themselves about with respect to the heavenly motions . and trismegistus ( in asclepio ) relates , that it was a custom of some of the gentile-devotionists at mid-day to look towards the south , and at sun-set to look towards the west . it was at the rising of the sun when lucian was turned towards it by mithrobarzanes * the chaldaean priest , who mumbled his prayers in a low and indistinct tone at the rising of that false god. they respected not always the eastern angle , though they had especial regard to it , when the sun appeared in it . they respected also the south and west-points in their worship . hence harpocrates a child represented amongst them the sun in its rising * ; orus a young man , the sun in its meridian ; osiris an old man , the sun-setting . this was also the way of the manichees who supposed the sun to be the tabernacle of christ. of them st. austin saith * , that their prayers rolled about with the sun. but the ancients thought the shechinah of christ more fixed , and therefore did not in such manner alter their quarter . and that quarter they esteemed proper to the shechinah , having read of the messiah in the old testament under the name of the east ; and following the translation of the seventy b , which thus readeth , psalm . . [ sing unto god who ascendeth above the heaven of heavens on the east . ] they also esteemed jerusalem the middle of the earth , and the parts which lay easterly from thence they called the east , and amongst them eden about mesopotamia . and they had a tradition that christ was crucified with his face towards the west , but that he ascended with his face towards the east , and went up to a place in the heavenly paradise , standing as it were over that of the earthly c . but whatsoever men may conceive of the space possessed by christs meer body , they ought not to think of his shechinah as of a confined light in some one quarter of the heavens ; but as a glorious luster filling all heavens , and shining towards this earth as a circumference of glory on a single point . they ought to lose their imaginations in an abyss of light. one saith ( and not amiss ) upon this subject * , that as earth heightned unto a flame , changeth not its place only , but form and figure ; so the person of our saviour was raised to a greatness , a glory vastly differing from , and surmounting any image , all images of things visible or invisible in in this creation . so 't is fitly expressed ( saith he ) in heb. . . he was made higher than the heavens . he was heightned to a splendour , enlarged to a capacity and a compass above the brightest , beyond the widest heavens . from this heavenly throne christ will come at the day of judgment in a shechinah of clouds and flaming-fire : the mention of which fire sometimes in the scripture , and in the commentaries of the ancient fathers , without express addition of that great day , has ( as i conjecture ) accidentally led part of the christian world into its mistakes about purgatory ; in relation to which place i must yet confess my self to be one of the nullibists . this shechinah in milder , but most inexpressible luster , i suppose to be that which the schools call the beatifick vision ; and which the scripture intendeth in the promise of seeing god face to face . part . of the usefulness of this argument of gods shechinah . this argument of gods shechinah may be many ways useful , if intelligent persons draw such inferences from it as it offereth to their judgment . i will hint at some of them ; for to insist on any unless it be those which concern the worship of angels or images , is beyond my scope . and first of all by due attention to the premisses , an anthropomorphite may blush at his rude conceit about the humane figure of the divine substance , whose spiritual and immense amplitude is incapable of any natural figure or colour ; though god by his logos using the ministry of inferiour creatures , hath condescended to a visible shechinah . hence , secondly , those people who run into the other extream , the spiritualists and abstractive familists , may be induced to own the distinct substance of god , and the visible person of christ ; and not to subtilize the deity and its persons , and all its appearances into a meer notion , or into some quality , act , or habit of mans spirit ; or to bow down to god no otherwise then as he is the pretended light or love in their own breasts . thirdly , if this consideration had entered with sobriety into the minds of those german anabaptists a , who with zeal contended that the very essence or substance of the father was seen in the son ; and the very substance of the spirit in the dove ; their disputations would have been brought to a speedy issue , or rather , they would never have been begun . they would have known how to have distinguished betwixt the invisible god , and the visible face or shechinah , not as the very shape , but as the emblem and significative presence of the divinity . fourthly , for want of some such notion as this , many other men of fanatick heads ( such as were most of the hereticks who introduced novelty and tumult into the church about the persons of the trinity and nature of christ ) have plunged themselves into unintelligible conceits . of this number were the basilidians , who call'd the body of the dove the deacon ; and the valentinians , who stil'd it the spirit of cogitation , which descended on the flesh of the logos ; thereby darkning the understanding with phrases . if they had apprehended the logos in his praeexistence or incarnation , as the shechinah of god , and would have expressed that notion without phantastical or amusing terms , they might have instructed others , and seen the truth also better themselves when they had clothed it in fit and becoming words . fifthly , this notion may not be unuseful for the unfolding the scriptures , which speak of the praeexistence of christ before he was god-man ; and explain them naturally , and not with such force and torture as they are exposed to in the so●…inian comments . he that saith abraham saw the shechinah of the praeexisting logos , and thence inferreth that christ was before that patriarck , speaketh plain sense . but he that says christ was not till more than years after abrahams death , yet that he was before him , because he was before abraham was abraham , or before all nations were blessed in his seed , the gentiles not being yet called ; such a one speaks like a sophist , not an honest interpreter ; and forgets that christs answer ( before abraham was , i am ) follows upon this interrogatory of the jews , thou art not yet fifty years old , and hast thou seen abraham ? sixthly , this notion may further shew the error of those semi-socinians , such as vorstius and his disciples , who confound the immensity of the god-head , and the visible glory of the shechinah , which god hath pleased as it were to circumscribe . they will allow this king of the world no further room for his immense substance than that which his especial presence irradiates in his particular palace a . which conceit though in part it be accommodable to the shechinah ; yet is it a presumptuous limitation of the great god , when it is applied to his substance which heaven and earth together cannot contain . furthermore , it is from hence in part , that we see and pity the blindness of some of the modern jews b , who notwithstanding they are the professed enemies of divine statues and images , and have reason enough to believe that the ark of god hath dwelt among us in a body of flesh , and now shineth in the heavens ; do yet hope ( some say ) for an especial presence of god by furnishing with a chest and roll of their law , the places of their religious assemblies . again , by considering with st. chrysostome the temple of solomon as a type , not only of the sensible but also of the invisible world ; and by considering further the shechinah and ark of god more especially in the holiest of all than in the sanctuary and more exterior courts and spaces ; we may illustrate that very useful and most probable notion of the degrees of glory , and of the several mansions prepared for several estates in the kingdom of glory ; where notwithstanding every part will be so far , though inequally , filled with luster , that all may be said with open face to behold the glory of god , and not those only next the coelestial ark or throne in the most holy place . but these things ( as i said ) are beyond my scope ; though appertinencies to my argument ; and therefore i will no further pursue them , but proceed to those uses of the notion which lye more directly in the way of my design . the first of them concerneth the worship of angels , the second of images . part . of the usefulness of this argument of gods shechinah , with relation to the worship of angels and images . first , the worshippers of angels plead for their practice , from those places in the old testament , which seem to speak of high veneration used towards them . t. g. a argueth from the prayer [ which indeed is rather the wish ] of jacob , where he saith , the angel who delivered me from all evils bless these children b . the manual called the abridgment of christian doctrine c would prove the worship of dulia to belong to angels , from the falling of joshua flat to the ground when the prince of the host of god appeared to him . the like proof is produced by the catechism of trent d from the blessing which jacob obtained of the angel with whom he strugled . if christ were considered as the angel of the great council appearing in cases of moment under the old testament , and receiving the veneration most due to him ; the worshippers of angels would either change their weapons , or quite lay them down . then touching the worship of images , this notion is very serviceable in that controverted point ; as likewise in the point of making either religious s●…atues or pictures . if any thing of the divinity be to be portraied , we learn from hence what it may be , not the godhead but the shechinah : that is visible , and the expressing of it with the best lights and shadows of art may therefore be not unlawful , though i know not whether i ought to plead for the expediency of it in common use . there was it seems in a frontispiece of our common-prayer books a some such embleme . the word jehovah and a three corner'd radiant light and clouds , and angels . he that took notice of this in print , and might have observed the like before some of the great church-bibles , and somewhat worse , the picture of a dove with rays of glory before the biblia polyglotta , did not well to call it a representing of god b , and to charge that upon the church which was the fancy of the engraver and printer . i have already noted a much worse frontispiece in each of the three parts of the pontifical , where god is pictured as man. and in those days in which the bishop of rome ruled in england , there were emblemes apt to suggest a very dangerous fancy to common brains ; pictures of the trinity in three conjoined heads of human figure . and so ordinary they were that they served as signs to the shops of stationers , as now do the heads of a king or a bishop . and he that printed the pupilla oculi of de burgo , was pleased to stamp his sign in that manner on the title-page of the book . nay , in the late missal reprinted at paris c there is none of the best faces of an old man pictured amongst clouds and angels over the crucifix before the canon of the mass. and though i know not how to commend these things , yet i will not blame them as acts of their whole church . it does not any-where appear to me that the jews of old pictured the ark or the temple , though now they make models of the whole . how near they come to the original i cannot tell ; but it is certain , that in picturing the sanctuary above , we create a phantasm , which needs much to be helped by our reason and faith ; it being in it self not equal in glory to those of the sun and the rainbow . it is true that pictures are but signs , and that words are so too ; but it is not expedient to describe all things by the pencil which come from the voice . words are signs without imagery in them , and they are transient a . ye heard a voice only , but ye saw no similitude , saith god almighty to the people , to whom he forbade images b . words are properly the symbols of the conceptions of the mind , and not of the external object . they are notes of memory , and helps of discourse . they are in themselves a kind of spiritual and immaterial marks . and though sometimes , especially in poetick characters , they bring to the fancy some present representation , yet they thereby fix a notion rather than a proper constant phantasm ( unless where fancy is indulged ) ; and they do not so grosly impress upon the brain the image they convey , as a material picture , which having also some tangible substance to sustain it , is apt to be transform'd into an object of worship , distinct from the prototype , in dull and sensitive minds . besides , when by words we convey to the mind a representation of heaven , or the shechinah of god , we rest not there , but following the pattern of the holy writers , we offer to the mind what the painter cannot to the eye , this further document , that we have not by far reached the original , and that it is indeed beyond all expressions but those of admiration . when any such pictures hang before us , we should in this manner exalt the phantasm into mental astonishment , and not dwell on the mean portraict , but refine and exalt it by the assistance of the words of scripture which call the shechinah , the excellent glory , the throne before which the cherubims fall down with vailed face , the light inaccessible in which god dwells , the throne of the lamb who is brighter than the sun : words by which the pen assisteth us beyond any pencil of angelo or titian ; yet neither are their devotional pieces ( where they mix not , as angelo doth in his portraict of the judgment , heaven and christian images ; charon and christ ) to be despis'd either as ornaments , or hints of memory . in the catechism of the council of trent , the parish-priest is required to take care a that images be made , ad utriusque testamenti cognoscendam historiam , for procuring the knowledg of the history of the bible . and well it had been if it had stayed there : but it proceeds in requiring the priest to teach the people that images of saints are placed in churches , ut colantur , that they may be worship'd : either the images or the saints by them . better sure , it were , to remove images quite out of the church , than to leave them as such stumbling-blocks for the commonalty who are children in understanding . when they see them only at a distance with their eye , they may sometimes instruct them , and afford them hints of very good meditations : but when they are directed to bow down before them , and to them also , though with distinctions which the vulgar understand not , they , then , are , if laymens books , books of magick , rather than of christian piety . god , you see , hath provided a better remedy for mankind . his son hath taken our nature into unity of person , and he offers himself to us as an object shining with glory and power in the heavens , though not there , in his godhead , confined : and therefore to use any image of him otherwise then to be a hint to us of his more glorious one at gods right hand , is to direct our devotion to the light of rotten wood , or gold , or pearl , when we have the sun in the firmament . if we worship christs image as apart from him , we do , in effect , divide christ. if we worship it together with him , we , in effect , multiply christ , joyning a second lifeless body to his glorious one ; and by that means adoring it , as if it were in personal union with him . they are safe who say with s. jerome , b “ we venerate only one image [ to wit jesus christ ] the image of the invisible and omnipotent god. when the father brought this brightness of his glory a and the express image of his person into the world , he said , let all the angels of god worship him . and now he hath installed him as god-man and king of the world at his right hand , let us and all the world adore him . let them worship him as god-man , and neither worship an undue image on earth as joyned to his person , nor yet his heavenly body as apart by it self . that , as join'd in unity of person , and now in glory , is our object ; and a crucifix ought not to be looked upon in prayer , as the present image of christ : for he is in heaven glorious , and not on the cross. and though the revelation of s. john speaks of him as in garments roll'd in blood ; it mentions them not as miserable apparel , but as the purple of the king of kings . the capitular of charles the great b would have the picture of christs resurrection as frequent as that of his cross : but by both of them we look back ; and if any be proper , in helping us , not meerly in our preparation , as the crucifix may be ; but in our immediate religious addresses , it is , surely , a picture of him in glory , if that could be well made : but neither is this to be worshipped , but made only an help to excite our mind ; nor is the humanity or body of christ to be adored by it self ; yet in the manuals of the roman church i find addresses to the very body ; and i fear that upon the festival of corpus christi , and in the object under the shews of bread ( shews united in their act of devotion to christs body ) , our lord is divided . we have a form of prayer to his body in the little french manual c called petite catechisme , and in the litanies of the sacrament d . and the learned bishop usher , in his sermon before the commons e , mentions the epistle dedicatory of the book of sanders concerning the lords supper , thus superscribed . to the body and blood of our saviour jesus christ , under the forms of bread and wine , all honour , praise , and thanks , be given for ever . a judicious christian would rather ascribe all praise and honour to christ god-man . whole christ let us supplicate and honour , helping our imagination by his shechinah in glory , and remembring the words of st. austin , noted as remarkable by agobardus f arch-bishop of lyons , a man zealous in his age against the corruptions of image-worship , and ill requited in his memory by them , who , ( as baluzius noteth g ) esteem him the less catholick for it . in the first commandment ( saith s. austine ) [ that is in the whole of that , which himself , elsewhere , in his questions of the old and new-testament , divides into first and second ] each similitude of god is forbidden to be made by men ; not because god hath no image , but because no image of his ought to be worshipped but that which is the same with himself , nor that , for him , but with him . god assisting us with this image , why should any religious acts have any lower object total or partial ? images set up as any sort of objects of our inward or external devotion , are a sort of anti-arks . and we ought not to touch them ; not because they are sacred , but because they are unhallowed objects . and worse still they are rendred , too often , by impious art , which maketh the lifeless image ( as in the rood of bockley ) by help of wiers , and other instruments of puppetry , to bend , to frown , to roll the eyes ; to weep , to bleed ; to exhibit signs of favour or displeasure . this indeed , is not the constitution , but 't is the frequent practice of some in that church : and hereby are framed so many snares for the people who turn such images into christs shechinah . for if certain monks ( who were also shepheards , and people of low conception ) became , through their rusticity , absurd anthropomorphites , by reading the bare words of scripture , where it saith , that god created man in his own image ; how much more will mean people have corrupt fancies begotten in them by false images , which their eyes may see , and their hands may handle . such will turn a common chest into an ark ; and a wooden engine into the divine shechinah . of the sindon at besanson , chiffletius a papist reporteth , that great numbers met twice a year on a mountain nigh the city , to adore that cloth with christs image on it . of it , he further saith , that it always shineth with a divine presence [ that is , in effect , that it is a shechinah of god ] , and that in great emergencies it is carried in procession like the ark , being yet more holy than that mosaic vessel . how shall the people not fall into idolatry , when such false shechinahs or idols are layd in their way ? how much more would it tend to edification to direct them to the image of god , who sitteth in glory at gods right hand , and whom our minds the less behold in our devotions , the more our eye is fixed upon an image of wood or stone . in the city or church of god , described in the st chapter of s. johns revelation , there was no temple no material fixed place of gods visible shechinah [ though there must be synagogues or places for publick assemblies ] ; but christ himself was the light or shechinah : and therefore to him , as to the only true image of the invisible god , it is proper to direct our cogitations and prayers . and let not any man think that because the shechinah is in heaven , and not visibly in a church , as the shechinah was in the temple of the jews ; that therefore christians have less assistance than gods ancient people : for they have that which is much more excellent . the glory on the ark was only a mixture of shapeless lights and shadows : and in the temple , the people seldom saw it , but being assured of it , did view it in their imagination . and few of them had other apprehensions of it , than as of the presence of god the deliverer and protector of that commonwealth . but christians ( a people under a more spiritual dispensation than the jews ) though they see not the shechinah with their eyes on earth , yet , from the words of scripture , they can excite their minds to behold it , even in the sanctuary of heaven . and they behold it in the figure of god-incarnate ; an image , not confused , but of a distinct person : an image which brings to their mind the greatest and most comfortable mystery of the means of salvation ; aptest to encourage our prayers , and to enflame our zeal , and to raise our admiration . some objects indeed , are , on earth , exposed to the eyes of christians , by the institution of our lord ; the elements of bread and wine . and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or place on which they are consecrated is , at this day , called , in the greek church , a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the propitiatory or mercy-seat . and a late author b reporteth of the abassine priests , upon the authority of codignus , ( though in codignus i could never find it a ) that they blessed a certain shrine or coffer of the sacrament , understanding by it the ark of the covenant . but christ hath ordained no cherubims on this ark : he hath not used any images , but pledges of his dying love . these pledges , with safety , call his passion to remembrance without any image on the table , which the gallican church , of old , forbad , in the council of rhemes , even after some corruptions had crept in b . neither should we detain our fancy amongst those pledges ; but obey the sursum corda of the ancient church . it seemeth incongruous to rest on the symbols , or to bow down to them ; they being , as it were , the dishes in our sacred commemoration , or festival of christ crucified ; but it more becometh us to lift up our heart , and eyes , and hands , and faith , with humble reverence towards the heavens , and to worship god-man in glory : to adore our great master and benefactour jesus , not as suffering on calvary , but as triumphing in the sanctuary not made with hands . chap. xv. a review and conclvsion . a. i have read over your discourse of idolatry , and if you please i will spend a few animadversions upon it . b. with all my heart . i take such liberty sometimes , and therefore i have reason to give it . the truth is , i am not wondrously pleased , my self , with what i have done . and i believe the performance of few men does answer to the idea which they had form'd in their heads . a. i neither frame models , nor work by them ; but i make bold to animadvert on those that do . and if they will talk to the world , they must expect that the world will talk again . as to your performance , my remarks in the general are but two ; but the particular ones are enough to weary you , though you were a second fabius . b. pray try what stock of patience i am master of : though that is usually very small when men are to hear of their own faults . a. they may be mine ; for no body offends oftner than he who censures . at least he runs the hazard of offending ; this being as true as most proverbs , that he who kicks at others is himself half way to a fall . but let us come to the points . i observe , first , that you have chosen a very beaten argument , and never more beaten than at this time . and next , that you will nauseate the nice readers of this age with your numerous citations , which are in truth so many that they make the book seem the less your own . b. 't is true , the argument is a beaten one ; a subject handled by maimonides , viretus , vossius , reinolds , selden , and many others of great learning . but i cannot say that it was wholly of my own chusing ; nor can i tell you all the occasions of it , unless i break open the seal of confession . but be the argument as beaten as it will ; i hope there may be something said in it , not said before ; as in a mine which hath been wrought in for many years , some mean labourer may find a new vein of oar. however , there must be new books for them whose curiosity will not incline them to look back upon the old ones . and there must be many upon every useful subject , that the differing genius of each reader may be gratified by an innocent compliance with it . and the very concurrence of many at this time in this one subject , does shew that they judged it highly useful for this age ; though it may be some would have spared their pains had they had a window into the studies of others , and seen what they were a doing . and further , i assure you upon the observation of others as well as upon my own , that the very newness of the fashion in any book upon a weighty subject , is some way instrumental in carrying on the trade of learning . for the citations , an historical and philological argument cannot be managed without them . ancient customs and matters of fact are not to be invented but remembred . and though i fetch many materials from the ancients , i lose no more my property in this writing ( were that worth the contending for ) than a hollander does in any of his vessels , whose timber was imported from norweigh , and grew not at home . a. i agree with you , adding this to what you have said , that the margent is as often left clear out of ignorance and laziness , as it is garnished out of pedantry . i have done with my general remarks . now for those which are more particular . in chap. . p. . you seem to commit a little mistake about zaradsas , or zaratas , said by plutarch to be the disciple of pythagoras . he was not therefore what you would make him the same with zoroaster , who was at least as much before him as socrates before plato and zenophon . b. plutarch himself does not say it . the translator ( rather sure out of misattention than ignorance ) renders him thus a , zaratas pythagorae discipulus . whereas this is the original , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , zaratas the master of pythagoras . a. in the same page , in page , as likewise in many others , you mention the two principles of pythagoras ; but you do not any-where tell us distinctly what he meaneth by them . a. 't is not an easie matter to do it . the ancient philosophers ( especially those whose heads were touched with magick and enthusiasm ) understood divers things by the same names . but these two principles are most literally expounded of the demiourgus , or soul of the world ; and hyle , or matter , his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or fatal original of evil b , which he and his followers ascribed to the untameable nature of it . a. i go on . in chap. . p. , &c. you are very brief in your proof of the acknowledgment of one supreme god amongst the gentiles ; and well it is you are so . that argument has been considered at large by others with great learning . and of these some have appear'd since your papers were under the press . so that in your brevity you are either discreet or lucky . b. what you please . i could wifh that i had been more brief than i am ; and then i had been guilty of fewer mistakes . i find that i have cited some words of plato's as acknowledgments of one supreme god , which he spake not of him but of the soul of the world. such are those cited by me in pag. . where he is said to call god the maker and father of every thing . that 's the proper platonick title of the soul of the world a , to which the frame of the visible universe , and its generation is ascribed . and the context so plainly inforceth that sense that i wonder it needed my second thoughts . he speaks of that third principle in many other places which are frequently misapplied to the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] one supreme god. a. you have company in your mistake , though perhaps you will be singular in your retractation . but to proceed . in chap. . pag. . you insinuate that the platonists judged the soul of the world to be rather a form assisting than informing . whereas they held this world to be one mighty animal . b. nothing can be more absurd than that which some platonists held . but plato himself , though he said the world was b [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ] a living creature endued with a soul ; yet he meant not by the animation of this world , either the vital union of the highest psyche to all matter ; or ( as some have conceived , whilst they have pleased to measure him by the doubtful phrases of plotinus ) of a secondary soul of the world to the formed subcoelestial hyle which the chaldee oracles c call the throne of matter , [ to which ( as they speak ) there is a descent by the seven steps of the planets ] and the fund of it . but by this plato understood d the vital union of souls to some part of it , the presential union of inferior daemons to certain statues in it e ; and the order , or ( as he calls it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) the temperament of all the parts adjusted by psyche . a. in chap. . pag. , . you seem to make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , jehovah , and jove the same ; which was not always your opinion . b. i do but seem so ; i think as i did . for jupiter , i believe as varro believed , and do think it comes à juvando . for jupiter ( or , as the english often pronounce it jubiter ) or juviter are the same ; p. b. v. being frequently used for one another . nor can i approve of the etymology of juvans pater ; for ter in jupiter is a meer termination ; and jupiter is no more juvans pater , than accipiter is accipiens pater . concerning jehovah i still think that the word is the same in effect with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , though not the pronunciation of it : a sound ( some believe ) so very modern that it is said to have been first heard from the mouth of galatinus . the ancient 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 now pronounced jehovah , was in all likelihood sounded , jahveh . so the samaritans pronounced it , of whose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( or jave , the vau by the greeks being as in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , turned into beta ) we read in theodoret's questions on exodus . and from them ( who changed not their ancient letters , nor received the judaic oral cabala ) we are more likely to understand the pronunciation , than from the jews misled by the pharisees , who in and after the maccabean times , began or promoted very many superstitions about the words of the bible . they did so particularly about the tetragrammaton , whose original sound being softly pronounced , and as is related by rabbi tarphon a , supped up as it were by the mumbling priest , was by degrees perfectly lost amongst most jews and their schollars : insomuch that origen in the fragment of his hexapla mentioned by st. chrysostome , as also many others read it , adonai . so doth the vulgar latin in exod. . . though in all other places it renders it by dominus . the seventy turn it by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , st. hierom by dominus ; though somewhere ( as mercer a noteth ) he calleth it jaho . that it ended in omega , as in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , was a corruption apt to happen to all names which are taken out of one language into another . the occasion of it might be this : the power of the samaritan heth answered by the greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b which by negligence was perhaps sometimes written , and thence in process of time pronounced as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is as i may so say , but a kind of epsilon laid on its back . a. it may be so for ought that comes now into my mind . i pass on to another note . in chap. . pag. . you tell us that the heathens used the form of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but you give us no greater authority for it than your bare word . b. you may if you please take it upon the word of arrian in his second book on epictetus c . a. in chap. . pag. . you seem to approve of the opinion of petavius , who maketh arius a genuine platonist : whereas it is manifest ( and the learned have taken notice of it ) that plato made his second principle eternal ; whilst arius said , there was a time when he was not at all . b. i only cite his words , i do not justifie them . the logos of arius is not so like to the nous , as to the psyche of plato ; to the demiourgus who framed ( as he fancieth ) the visible world. yet thus far petavius is in the right . he asserteth upon good grounds that arius was infected with platonism , and that with plato he made the principle that framed this world to be a distinct substance , which was not very god ; though he did not affirm with that philosopher , that it was coeternal with the self-originated deity ; and for that it was not a priviledg in plato's judgment very extraordinary , for he alloweth it to matter it self ; i mean the unformed hyle . a. we 'l examine these things anon . in the mean time i would ask you , why , in this th page , you observe it as a thing worthy an asterisc , that the platonists call the nous , unbegotten , and , parent to it self ? for they mean no more than that the nous was from the t' agathon by eternal emanation , and not , as this world from psyehe , by temporal generation or formation . b. they mean no more . neither did i think it a deep remark , but i the rather observ'd it , because holy writers have declined such terms ; not adhering to them so very much as some imagine they do . and when they use them , they do it not so much to countenance the platonick notions , as to oppose them . so when s. john saith , in the beginning was the logos , &c. he meaneth it not either of the logos or demiourgus of plato , but , rather , in opposition to them : as if he had said ; christ , not your fictitious , but the true logos , was ever with god , and god also ; and the maker of all things . a. i perceive by this , and by that which i find in many other places , that you have not forgotten the old saying ; plato is my friend , but truth is more . nay , you seem to have a kind of pique at platonism , and will , i fear , provoke the ficinus's of this age . b. i do not with design oppose , or challenge any of them : and i think they are men of better temper then to make every light notion so much their mistress , as to duel me for it . and i heartily wish that the indecent and irrational way , used by some writers , of hitting one another , fiercely , in the teeth , with their little barren speculations , were as much laid aside , as is the custom of fighting with sandbags . but , what are the particulars ( i beseech you ) in which i may seem to offend the platonists ? a. they are many . and ( not to hover in generals only ) i tell you particularly , that you are irreverend towards their triad ; a notion as dear to a platonist , as diana to an ephesian . it is true in chap. . p. . you take notice of the three platonick principles , as distinct substances ; and they themselves do so likewise : but , then , you say not a word of that union , whereby those three substances , of the same species , though numerically differing , become but one god. b. suppose that to have been plato's mind : how would it have agreed to the one god of the christians , whom s. paul opposeth to gods many , or many superior spirits , and lords many , or many inferior spirits , though of the same species in each order ? but i see not , any-where in plato , that this was his opinion , though plotinus , who lived where christianity was planted , doth , sometimes , express himself in that manner . at other times , the same plotin , ( who is a kind of platonick familist ) doth no otherwise unite his three principles then by the union of a center a , a lesser , and a greater circumference , which no man can conceive , exactly in one another . when he saith that the t' agathon , nous and psyche , are joyned , he meaneth rather that there is nothing betwixt them , than that , by mutual penetration , and vital union , they are one . he interprets himself , in that chapter , by saying of the three principles , that there is [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ] nothing that interveneth . no more doth any planet come betwixt saturn , jupiter and mars , and yet they are three planets , not one . and this seems to be the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or ] the indistant distance of which notion he darkneth the sense by his obscure phraseology . if he meant much more ; plato did not ; nor could he , with consistence . that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or t' agathon of plato was the supreme god , i have already owned . to him agreeth that description of god , that he is [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] without cause , and the cause of every thing else : though i find also that nature , or the indefinite power of matter and motion , the venus of the lucretians , is said to be without cause , and , in phurnutus , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the cause of all things ; that is , of all the modifications of matter , and the phaenomena of the visible universe . but that plato's nous or demiourgus contain in them the idea of a god , or a being absolutely perfect , is most contrary to the general air of platonism , whatsoever little independent sayings may be , that way , misapplied . wherefore , in chap. . p. . i have called nous and psyche , eminent daemons , a and not divine persons , though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is often used to signifie the supreme god b , as in that place where the philosopher affirmeth , that [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] or the divinity , is not [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] an envious being . in the oracles of zoroaster c it is affirmed , that the supreme god withdrew himself from the world : by which is not meant that he sequestred himself wholly from all the affairs of it , but ( as pletho noteth ) that he did not communicate his divinity , either to the nous , or to the second god , by which is understood , in those chaldee oracles , not the logos , but the demiourgus or psyche . for the nous , it is not one single principle , but a kind of pantheon , a collection of many ideas or spirits , as aristotle , who lay nigh to the bosom of plato , doth truly construe him . it is such a thing as christophorus sandius ( in whose brain paradoxes naturally flutter ) doth fancy the spirit of god to be . for , in a distinct treatise d he endeavoureth to prove , that it is the body of the good angels . hence , sometimes , the three principles are called t' agathon , ideai , and psyche . hence he find it called the exemplar , or rather that which afforded an exemplar ( they distinguishing nicely betwixt the form , and the thing formed ) ; that is , the intellectual world , according to whose pattern this sensible world is said to be made . they who wholly blame the later platonists for such ideas , excusing plato ; are very unjust : for they drub the feet when the head was first in fault . the exemplar , saith plato a is all the intelligible animals in it self , as this world is the circle of such as are sensible . in another book b he saith , that the intellectual world containeth in it all intelligent animals ; as this sensible world containeth us , and all living creatures . the same philosopher , in the conclusion of his timaeus c , asserteth that this sensible world is the [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or ] second image of the intellectual god. also , in the conclusion of the book of the soul of the world d he thus discourseth . the ruler of all ( he speaks of psyche ) hath committed the inspection and government of the world to daemons . he made this world full of daemons , and men , and other animals , after the pattern of the best image , of the ungenerated eternal 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or form ; meaning that of the nous. and he had said before that e this world was [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] the generated image of the eternal gods ; of which , therefore , the collection made up the nous or intellectual world . plato thus expressing himself , it is no wonder that it is said in the chaldee oracles f , that the supreme god delivered to the second god ( or psyche ) all the intelligible ideas . nor need we think it strange to hear philo speak of an intellectual sun and stars . a. if it be thus , that the nous is an intellectual world , and that this world is a kind of second temple made after the fashion of that first , though inferior to it in glory , why do you ( in chap. . pag. . ) call the nous , one thing , being , or person ? b. a thing , it may be called , as this world is , being one collection of things : and a person ( a publick person ) being a collection of intelligent beings , of which the principal nous or spirit , seemeth to answer to the visible sun ; plotin mentioning it by it self , and then speaking of the beauty of the ideas which he there a calls [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ] all the intelligible gods. thus we call the collection of evil spirits , and the prince of them , by the name of devil : and , in the evangelical history , the principal spirit in a man possessed , answered in the singular , though he said , his name was legion . plato himself calls this visible world b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a sensible god , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a generated god , though it be a collection of innumerable things and persons : and , by the same reason , he may call the intellectual world ( as indeed he doth ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an intelligent god or nous , though it be not a single principle . the like may be said of logos , which philo so understood , or else he would not , sometimes , have called this world , logon , as i have shewed him to have done c . the chaldee oracles call the demiourgus , the second god ; and he is more properly so than the nous : yet neither hath that principle in it , the true idea of god. a. how doth that appear ? b. two ways ; for , first , it containeth not , in it , infinite wisdom , but standeth in need of a pattern to work by , an external exemplar : for psyche is represented as an under-artist , not having the idea or model in its own mind , but following one exhibited by his superior master . he made the world ( saith timaeus a ) after the eternal form . secondly , it containeth not in it omnipotence . for though it framed the world very excellently , yet it is said to have been , in part , resisted by the stubbornness of hyle , and not to have done all it desired , but all it could . plato saith , in his timaeus b , that god ( or psyche ) designed all things to be good , and nothing to be evil , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as far as nature would suffer him ; and again , as far as it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a possible thing . it seems the matter was not such pliable wax as would receive the impression in such manner as psyche would have been pleased with . to this effect there is a remarkable place in hierocles who thus repeateth the opinion of certain followers of plato c who question'd both the infinite wisdom and power of psyche . they think not that there is [ in the demiourgus ] sufficient power , whereby , through its own wisdom ( by which it maketh things , out of eternal matter ) [ for so i construe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and not , with the translator , qua ab omni eternitate res efficit , which contradicteth the scope of the place , ] the world may perfectly be ordered ; but that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by the mutual aid of unbegotten hyle , and by using extrinsick nature exhibited before it , it may accomplish its work . it is true , the common copy reads it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and ( which surprizeth me ) grotius translateth it d generatae materiae ministerio . but it is directly contrary to the tenor of the platonists there cited , and to the following discourse : which is such , that hierocles believ'd e they held matter to be [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] ungenerated , not only [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] as being before time , which they say , began with the sensible world ; but , likewise , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] as being without all cause ; in which sense the t' agathon only is to be called unbegotten . by this , it should seem , that the demiourgus is but [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] the servant of matter , as the egyptians in herodotus do stile him . and this plutarch a also teacheth , saying , the essence of matter out of which this world was made , was not generated , but laid always ( as far as it could ) before the workman , to be disposed and ordered by him according to his exemplar or likeness [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] as much as possible might be . a. this puts me in mind of what you affirmed before , that matter was by plato made to be eternal . so did theodoret before you b , as well as plutarch . but is this manifest from plato himself ? b. it is . insomuch that by some platonists hyle is called the sister of psyche c . plato in timaeus d , of the soul of the world , does expressly call [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or ] matter [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] eternal , and [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] unbegotten . and again he saith in the same page , that before the heaven was made ( by which in that place he means this world ) there existed in the logos , ( or intellectual world ) idea , and matter ; to which he adds also in that discourse , the demiourgus . a. what then is the meaning of the making of the world , and the novity of its essence , so often mentioned in the school of plato ? b. there is meant by it not any temporal creation of the very substance of matter , but the production of this form * out of formless hyle , which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 e , or shapelesness . god ( saith plato * , meaning psyche ) made this world [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ] of all the praeexistent matter . he made it [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] out of the things not seen f , ( out of simple matter void of phaenomena ) , but not ( say they ) [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 g ] out of very nothing . matter , therefore ( the most simple hyle ) is with them eternal ; and makes up a fourth thing in the first quaternio of the pythagorick tetractys ; the three first being t' agathon or aitia , nous or logos , psyche or demiourgus . a. i had thought with some in drusius on the name jehovah , that the tetractys was the tetragrammaton , that secret and mysterious name of god most high , which pythagoras revealed to the gentiles . b. by no means . had it been in his time so superstitiously reverenced , and a name above all other names , a jew would never have cast such a pearl before a gentile ( and especially before such a one , a kind of magical gentile ) whom he had in abhorrence as much as a swine . this name was no mystery among the greeks , as is evident from the mention of jerombalus [ or jerombaal ] a priest of the god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in sanchuniathon : of jaho in st. hierom , and the sibylline oracles : of jaoth , or jaoh in irenaeus : of the hebrew-god called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the gnosticks , in a manuscript of origen a , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in clemens alexandrinus : of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the first principle of the first gnostick heaven in epiphanius : the god of moses in diodorus siculus : the god bacchus in the oracle of apollo clarius ; and lastly ( as was said ) of the samaritan god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in theodoret . and certainly the jews before the captivity knew well enough how to pronounce this name ; nor doth it appear in all the bible that they feared to reveal it . a. what meaneth that place in exod. . . but by my name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was i not known unto them ? b. it meaneth that go●… having actually given defence and plenty to abraham , isaac and jacob , was already known to them by the names of el , almighty ; and schadai , alsufficient . but that having not fulfilled to them his promise * of giving to them or their seed , the land of canaan ; was not yet known to them by his name jehovah or jahveh , which comes from [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] hajah , which signifies to be and exist ; and imports a god constant to his word , and the same to day , yesterday , and for ever . a. if the tetractys of pythagoras be not the tetragrammaton of moses ; what other thing is it ? b. i can judg it no other thing than that which plutarch thought it b , the pythagorean world. this world ( as the same plutarch * observeth ) consisteth of a double quaternary . the quaternary of the intellectual world is t' agathon , nous , psyche , hyle . the quaternary of the sensible world ( which is most properly the pythagorean 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) is fire , air , water , and earth ; the four elements c called by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( the roots or principles of all mixed bodies ) in these ancient greek verses : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that is , jupiter the fire , juno the air , pluto the earth , and nestis , or the womb , the water , are the four roots of all things . the like we find in the form of the pythagorick oath , in these words a : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a. this to me is a pythagorick riddle . how do you expound it ? b. i construe the dystich thus : no [ or yea ] , by him from whom we learned the tetractys ( for they swore by their master * ) a fountain containing in it the roots ( or elements ) of everflowing matter for so i interpret 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , * not as some of eternal matter , of which the elements are not the roots , and which is not here spoken of ; but of the second matter which perpetually changeth its shapes ; the first being neither this or that , but ingenerable and incorruptible hyle . now if i am mistaken in this notion of the tetractys , i err with company . for hierocles in a place little observed , does seem to say the same thing . the tetrad ( said he * ) is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the framer of all things ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the cause , [ or the t' agathon , frequently so called by the modern platonists ; ] and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the idea or intellectual world ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the cause of the heavenly [ that is of the ethereal first ) matter , and of that which is sensible . a. this interpretation of the tetractys seems not wide of the scope of pythagoras and plato . but for the triad , methinks you are more severe than you need to be in explaining , or ( to express your humour more properly ) in exposing of it . there must surely be somewhat more divine in that notion than you allow , seeing it hath spread it self very widely among the gentiles , and thereby seems the dictate of that reason which is common to them all . b. you argue upon an usual mistake . many such doctrines are spread very far , but often they come from one only root ; and that is not true reason , but the authority of some one fam'd master in learning . the bellweather goes first , and a numerous flock follow him upon no other motive often-times , but because they see him go before them . orpheus is followed by pythagoras , and he by plato and thousands of others in successive ages . a. there is no effect without its cause . what ( i pray you ) did move orpheus , or pythagoras , or plato , or him whoever he was that was the beginner to take up at first this doctrine of the triad ? b. the other extream opinion of those philosophers who were meer atomists . a. how could that be ? they were the followers of moschus or mochus , that is moses , whom orpheus and pythagoras , and plato , rather follow than contradict . b. that moschus was moses , mr. selden , arcerius in his notes on jamblicus , and divers others seem to believe , for no other reason that i know of than because the names are a little like one another . but mochus or moschus was plainly a phaenician of later times , and one who opened a school at sidon a . he is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in laertius and suidas . laertius b maketh him a phaenician , and one of those barbarians as he calls them , from whom philosophy had its birth , e're it was propagated in greece . and he numbers him with zamolxis the thracian , atlas the libyan , and vulcan the egyptian . but it is not of any moment , here to inquire any further about him . i know not whether he were such an atomist as i am here speaking of ; to wit , a perfect materialist , denying the existence and the very notion of incorporeal substance . in opposition to such the pneumatists framed the platonick triad after this manner : the swmatists or materialists supposed nothing to be in the world but body , and all body to exist eternally of it self , in its essence though not in its modes , without all cause . the pneumatists opposed this dogma by asserting one supreme incorporeal substance , the aitia or cause of all beings besides its own : the t' agathon , or fountain-good whence all essence flowed . the materialists supposed that this visible world was the only world , and that all ideas and all pretences of incorporeal beings , were but so many impressions of motion on the brain . this dogma the pneumatists opposed by asserting separate ideas and an intellectual world ; a nous or logos . the materialists supposed the frame of the visible world to have been made at adventure , and by a fortuitous concourse of atoms . the pneumatists opposed this dogma , by affirming two things : first , that there was not only matter and motion , but a demiourgus , an incorporeal workman , governing the disorderly motion of the chaos , and disposing of the rude materials in it into a regular system . secondly , that this artificer did not work at adventure , but accorrding to an excellent exemplar , laid before him . a. i perceive you still so explain this triad , that you will not allow plato to christianize . nay i find elsewhere c that you do not think him so much as to mosaize ; which is very hard measure , and such as others have not meted to him . b. i do not say that he did not mosaize , but that to me it was not manifest that he did . a. when he saith in his timaeus , a that the father having made the world was exceedingly transported at the work of his hands ; doth he not borrow from moses , who said b , that god saw every thing that he had made , and behold it was very good . b. it is not manifest that he did . it is natural for any man to say after the description of an excellent and an agreeable performance , that the artist was pleased with what he had done . further , it is here to be observed , that plato in that place speaketh not as moses of god , the supreme self-originated father , but of the third principle , or demiourgus , whom he stileth emphatically the father and genitor of the visible world. for to the t' agathon plato ascribes not such fatherhood and generation ; but says , of all things flowing from him , that they were unbegotten ; that is , not formed , as he says this world was , out of praeexistent matter by psyche . a. though the demiourgus of plato may not be the mosaic maker of the world , yet he may seem at least to be the spirit of god , which ( as moses teacheth * ) moved upon the face of the waters . for plato maketh his third principle to agitate the chaos . b. neither is that evident ; for the text may be interpreted of a wind of god , that is , according to the jewish idiom , of a mighty wind so moving . the winds of god ( saith the arabick version ) blew upon the face of the waters . a. though you evade this , yet i hope you will grant something in favour of orpheus , pythagoras and plato . you will grant sure that they received the doctrine of the immortality of the soul from the cabala of moyses , and were thereby great benefactors to the gentile-world , and predisposed it for the reception of the christian faith. b. that kind of immortality which they held was not agreeable to christian doctrine . they asserted indeed the incorporeal and indissoluble nature of the substance of mans soul ; but by the dogma of its circulation through several bodies , they taught a false and uncomfortable faith which our lord never justified . he taught not only that the soul was not a concretion of separable atoms , and that it was a substance not to be killed , a substance subsisting after death ; but that it was , if righteous , immortal in unchangeable blessedness . he did not dishearten the virtuous by saying ( as did pythagoras ) that the soul after having attained the height of the heavenly state , might come down again from the top of the circle , and be happy and unhappy in eternal rotations and vicissitudes . for this reason st. austin in the first book c of his retractations , speaking of the souls ascent into heaven , thinketh it had been safer to have expressed himself by the word going , than that of returning ; lest any should believe he favoured the platonick notion of its being thrust down from its seat in heaven . a. of platonism , enough . i will trouble you again , as i did at the beginning , with a few remarks of another kind ; and then i will suffer you to be quiet . b. pray let us hear them . a. in chap. . pag. . you make pagods to be the statues , whereas they are only the temples of idols . b. i use not my own words , but vincent le blanc's , and with him many others agree ; though i do not remember that either in sir thomas roe's voyage to the east-indies a , or in monsieur tavernier's travels b , pagod is otherwise used than for a temple . but why may it not signifie both the statue and the temple ? at rome they do not think it absurd to call , the saint , the church , the image , sancta maria. a. it may be so . i pass to another note . in chap. . pag. , . you expound the second commandment , or prohibition of a vow forbidden to be made to an idol or vanity , in the name of el , elohim , jehovah , or ( if you will have it so ) jahveh ; or in any other name of the god of israel . so far the novelty , perhaps , is passable . but then to obviate an objection which may be made from our lords interpretation , [ thou shalt not forswear thy self , ] you add this , that he who voweth by an idol , seeing he cannot be enabled by it to perform his vow , is therefore in effect forsworn . and this looks more like an evasion than an answer . b. it doth so . nor will i go about either to defend that , or the exposition which occasioned it . thus much only i chuse to subjoin : that a jew or a christian vowing by an idol though coloured with some name of the true god , is actually forsworn ; because he breaketh either the mosaical , or evangelical covenant , an especial part of which is the renunciation of the worship of all daemons * . in speaking to the first commandment , in p. . i am guilty of a fault of omission which you take no notice of . a. what may that be ? b. i ought to have observed that the jews did generally interpret that prohibition , against the worship , not so much of any other supreme god , as of the middle powers , or supposed mediators , betwixt god and man. a. there needs no command against the worship of many supreme gods ; that being a contradiction to the sense of mankind . b. true ; when you use the words , many supremes . but the common people think not of the world , as one body necessarily placed under one governour ; but they may be brought to think of the kingdom of heaven , as they do of the kingdoms in this world , where there is no universal monarch . they may think there are several coequal gods , in their several precincts . nay , generally the barbarous in several countries , may be apt to think their topical god superior to all others . the ignorant frier thought the french king his master , the greatest on earth , when he irreverently compared him to god the father , and called our holy lord the dauphine of heaven . and some poor peasants believe there is scarce one higher on earth than the lord of the mannor . a. i have met with such in my time . but , i go on . in chap. . p. , and in other places , you much disparage the ancient histories of greece . b. plato himself a speaking of the first phoroneus , deucalion , and others , suggesteth that their stories are fabulous . and that which he there remembers of the discourse of the priests of sais to solon , about the antiquities of egypt and greece , and of athens as an egyptian colony , is , at first hearing , so idle a tale , that i wonder the philosopher , or any discreet reader of him , hath had any reverence for it . a. i confess , i have not . give me leave to trouble you with one objection more . in chap. . p. . you say two things concerning the idolatry of the mahometans which will not pass . first , you affirm that they pray to mahomet : whereas they are forbidden to do any such thing by their great article , of faith in one god. secondly , you say , it is most notorious that they do so ; whereas some judicious persons who have lived amongst them , and such who are of better credit than the author you cite , do profess they could never observe them doing it . b. to your first exception , i thus answer . their article , of faith in one god , was not so much designed against the worship of subordinate powers , as against the acknowledgment of three coequal subsistences in the god of the christians . it is one of the dogmata of the moslemans ( saith gabriel sionita b ) , that god is one ; and that there is no other equal to him. and this last clause mahomet added with direct design against the christian trinity . and he would not have been so vehement , in his charge of idolatry against the christians , if they had worshipped christ and the holy ghost with subordinate honour , and not as very god. for your second exception , i must confess that the words [ most notonious ] may seem a little too bold ; they relating to a matter which is under dispute : as likewise that , on your side , there are authors a of better credit then monsieur de la guilliotiere whom i have produced . i have not much relyed upon his word since i was taught by a person of great integrity b , that his book of athens to his knowledg was wide of the truth . but monsieur de la guilliotiere is not my only author . i am told by others that the worship of heroes , and trust in their aids as patrons under god , is to be charged on mahometans , if not on the constitution of mahomet who taught expresly c the intercession of saints . busbequius relateth d that the turks believe their hero chederle ( a kind of mahometan st. george ) to be propitious in war , to all who implore his aid . he further telleth that the dervi , or turkish monks , shewed him the sepulchres of the relations of chederle ; and would have gladly perswaded him that many benefits were daily conferred from heaven on those who at those chres petitioned them for assistance . francis barton a learned english man , and no stranger in turkey , discoursing of the manners of that people , giveth this as an instance of their veneration of saints . the admiral ( saith he ) of the imperial fleet , during fourteen days before he set sail , was obliged to go once a day to the sepulchre of isuppus , an eminent and fortunate warrier , and there to pray for success . septem-castrenses was detained many years among the mahometans . and he ( in the fifteenth chapter of his book , de turcarum moribus ) is large in mentioning their guardian-heroes , in whom they put subordinate trust . one ( it seems ) is called sedichast , which they interteth , holy conquerour , or victorious among the saints . and of him ( he saith ) it is the common opinion , that no man was ever sent away unanswered , who in any necessity prayed to him for succour , especially in any emergency of war. he is ( as he proceeds ) as famous among the turks , as st. anthony among [ some ] christians . another is called harschi pettesch , which they interpret , the help of travel . he is ( he saith ) much invoked and reverenced by strangers and pilgrims , and ( as they report ) not in vain . a third is called ascick passa , as much as to say , patron of love , and he is invoked in matrimonial cases . a fourth is called gotvel mirtschin , and is a kind of patron of cattel . to him ( saith septemcastrensis ) my mistress prayed , and vowed to make him a yearly present of butter for the custody of her kine , which also she performed . and ( as he goes on ) she would have perswaded me to have invoked him , that the sheep i kept might by him have been protected from the wolves that infested us . if all this be true , and the mahometans invoke so many other heroes ; methinks they should not forget for ever to call on mahomet himself , the prince of their saints , and their chief intercessor a with god. for the honour they do to the relick of his sandal preserved at mecha b : for their worshipping of the place where they supposed abraham to have dwelt c : for their embracing and kissing the stone brachthan , on which they say abraham accompanied with hagar d : lastly , for their moving round about a statue of stone , erected in the midst of the temple at mecha , with stooping shoulders , one hand lifted up , and another on one of the ears , till a vertigo lays them on the floor ( a thing it seems told zigabemus * by a turk turned christian ) i forbear to enlarge ●…pon them , and leave the whole to the perusers of such authors as tavernier , benjamin , zigabenus , busbequius , barton . a. i must needs be satisfied with the authorities you have brought . there remain divers animadversions yet behind ; but i will neither tire you or my self any further : i see 't is easier to raise cavils than to write any thing that is not liable to them . i beg your pardon for the rude interruption i have given you , and think my self obliged in common civility to bid you adieu . b. you have not offended , unless you have done so by your complement . and because i perceive you are falling into a vein of ceremoniousness , which is so idle a thing in private conversation , and amongst old friends , i will be contented for this time to part with you . so , fare you well . finis . an alphabetical index . a aarons seeing the god of israel , what , page abel's and cain 's sacrifices how accepted or rejected , abraham ignorant of us , exp. before abraham was , i am , exp. ( , . abraxas of the gnosticks , who , absolution romish , after death , aegypt , whence the confusion of its rites , , aeons african idol of stone , agnus dei's original , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whether thummim , , , st. almachius , sm. almanacum alla of mahomet , what , amulets , mahometan , gnosticks , angel , christ emphatically such , , — to whom jacob pray'd , who , angels , thought by some hellenists governours under god , — ministring not governing spirits , , , &c. — of the seven churches — of graecia and persia — of their worship under the old testament , — orders of them , , , archangels , what , , m. antoninus's unknown god , who , ancient of days , the son , , ancilia , what , animation platonick of the world , what , apis , its golden image , — its marks , anthropomorphites , , aquinas , why canonized , ark of the covenant when it failed , , what , , , — what in it , , — how instead of all statues , , — not it self worshipped , , , — how meant of christ , , , , to arius , how a platonist , , arians , their doxology , , arabians , worshippers of daemons and statues , , assembly of divines , of the word create , astarte in judg. . what , astrology judicial , whence , athanasius his translation mended , ave maria used as a prayer before sermon , , st. augustine appears to one in a dream , b babel , its tower an high altar , sacred to the sun , , , — the name the builders designed , what , , — gods coming down to it , what , , bacis , bacchus , , bacchus egypt . whether moses , , to st. barbara , assistant at confession , baronius , his high devotion towards the h. virgin , , to — the occasion of it , basilidian gems , what , beatifick vision , what , , beelzebub , who , benians , their buffiuna , brama , mais , what , s. bernardine's odd saying , dr. bilson's charge of idolatry on papists , bleeding statues , , blind and lame , in sam. . what , , body of christ , prayers to it , — worship of it , bones of elephants mistaken for those of giants first born of every creature , how christ so called of bowing towards the altar , , &c. — to the elements , — at the name of jesus , , branch in isa. . . misinterpreted of the virgin , , c callicratidas his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of the golden calf , , &c. & — why some fathers called it the head of a calf , cambray , its synods declaration about prayer to saints , , cambyses , his killing apis , canonization modern , its abuse , , is. casaubon 's prayer for the church of england cath. of siena , of her saintship , golden cat , celsus 's error concerning gods image , cerberus , how pluto 's embleme , , chencres , who , , a chest , a presence , jewish ark , cherubim , what , , , , , , , — of their faces like oxen's , , china , its idol-temples christ , gods image , , , , , , clouds , why the jews said to worship them , , command , first , its meaning , — second , what pesel in it , — what it forbids , , , — third , a new expos . of it , , , , confessions of scotl. pol. engl. &c. about romish idolatry , , &c. conical form of some idols , what it meant , , crocodile , hieroglyph . of god , crucifix , of what use , , to — not the present image of christ , , , cup , by which joseph divin'd , what , , confusio a philos. of china , what he held , d daemons , twelve egyptian — twelve grecian ones , — of the gentiles , evil spirits , , — of mexico , very bloody , — terrestrial , , daille 's defence of kneeling at the sacrament in the church of england , dan and bethel , no shechinahs of god there , davis 's voyage to the northwest , degrees of glory distraction by image-worship in the act of it , , dives and pauper , a dialogue about the worship of images , , , dove , whether the holy ghost ever assumed that shape , , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of god , what , , , , , , , demiourgus of gnosticks — of plato , not very god , , &c. e east , of worshipping towards it , , ephrata , we heard of the ark there ; what it means , enoch 's prophesie , valu'd by tertullian , enos , falsly accused of idolatry by maimon . epaphus , mistaken by herodotus , external worship , f the father invisible only : how true ; and in the arian sense how false , , faith , what not of faith , sin ; whether against invocation of saints , flesh intellectual in counc . const. what , fire , gods answer by it , — of a formless one , forms of prayer in the church of rome , how scandalous in their common sense , , to — whether expounded in a better sense , , to frauds pious , , , , flaming-sword in gen. what , , . g st. geneviefve patroness of paris , geneva , images remain there , st. george 's day , . turkish st. george , gnosticks , worshippers of daemons , — of images , — their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , , , , t. goodwin of the government of the saints departed , t. g. papist of the same , , to — answered , , to god , whence that name , gothick superstition , , government subord . of the world by saints departed , a dangerous opinion , , , — agreements in it of the gentiles and romanists , confessed by de roa , , by rivallius , , greece its fabulous antiquities , creek church , what images in it , gregory th . of his saintship , h. grotius , answered about the delivery of the law by the logos , , &c. — about the worship of the ark , , — about cherubim , , — about the things in the ark , , — he mistranslates hierocles , guardian-saints , romish , , giants , the congregation of them ( in the proverbs ) what it means , h al. hales , his idle defence of saint-worship , harpocrates , why supposed the embleme of moses , herodotus 's text mended , st. hierom's mistake about abraxas , as the sun , herald of norweigh , his barbarous sacr. hochal in gen. . . what , d. holden of the knowledg of saints , horns of moses , what , , — of the logos , what , horstius 's paradise of the soul , , &c. , &c. hosea 's taking to him an adulteress , what , i jamblicus mended , jaovas , priests of the sun so called , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , jove , jehovah , , , , , . jahveh a righter pronunciation than jehovah , jehovah , god not known by that name in exod. . . what it means , , ibis of egypt , idea of god , what , . how turned to an idol , idolatry , its notion , , — two kinds of it , — why called uncleanness , , — three degrees of it , , — it s general cause , , — it s blockishness , , — not before the flood , , idols fall before christ , , , — renounced in rom. rit . of baptism , images , their glorious or horrid forms , to what end , , — why in ss . said to be the ultimate objects of the worship of the gentiles , , to — of the true god , what , , , , , to — of the divinity , , — of the trinity , , , pope john . against them , — of christ , joined by some into personal union with him , , , — of the shechinah , , , , , — of our lady at halla , , . at guadalupa , how found , , — of analogy , . of memory , of representation , , . of presence , — abus'd as shechinahs of god , , to — their use , , &c. — on coins how far scrupled by the turks , — visible , more dangerous than signs of words , — hist. of two speaking ones , , immensity of god , against vorstius , invisibility of god , , st. joseph , a patron in america , isaiah saw his glory ; what it means , isis , her rod , what , , . her image , . isis , all , , . isis and ceres , who , julian when apostate owned the god of abraham , — his mistake about apis , — his apol. for the worship of images , jupiter , how the one true god , how an ill daemon , , , , — whence the name deriv'd , k kircher mistakes maimon . kissing , an ancient ceremony in religious worship , kneeling at the sacrament , , , l lactantius , a mistake of his , st. lambert , patron of brussels , a lamb forbidden as christs image , law of moses , given by the logos , , &c. — mystical , a lie in rom. . . an idol , light , used by god in his shechinah , , lipsius 's excess of devotion towards the virgin , , , logos , why the son so called . — the substitute of the father , , , , , , &c. — he is thought to have appeared to adam , , &c. to abel , . to abraham , , &c. to agar , . to jacob , . to moses , , &c. to isaiah , . to daniel , . to joshuah , . to david and solomon , , . to s. stephen , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by whom taken instead of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , logos sometimes signifies the world in philo , , the lord that rained on sodom from the lord , who , m mahomet , his one god , mahometan saints trusted in as patrons , , , , — of the worship at his tomb , , manicheism , degenerate pythagorism , , mary , the signification of that name , mass , the fraud of the late translator of it into english , , masses of saints , how to be understood , matter , the first hyle eternal according to plato , , , , — it s generation , what , , , — it s stubbornness against psyche , , — the principle of evil , mr. mede 's notion of the form of the serpent doubted , michael , the original of his feast , miracles , romish , some false , some ludicrous , , , — upon invocation of saints , , to — at images , , — why to be suspected , miracle of a leg restored , . of a shoo , moschus , or mochus the atomist , not moses , moses , his fabulous statue , — he seemeth not to platonize , , — saw god , what it means , , — whether osiris , bacchus , apis , , &c. bishop montague , his opinion about praying to saints , angels , guardian angel , , mountains , british islands , moon , its character on apis not from the beginning , muggleton 's gross deity , , , n nails of the cross worshipped with latria , by c. curtius , , , nature , pliny 's and spinosa 's goddess , , — called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , negative honouring of images , neton in macrobius is mnevis , nice , council second , what it means by adoration of images , s. nicholas made a guardian-saint , nocca , a kind of northern neptune , nous of plato , the intellectual world , , , numa 's temple , and fire in it , what , , — his zeal against images , — the fire in his temple , why renewed each march , nysa , what place , o onion , of what kind the idol of egypt was , ophites , their diagram , of orders of angels , , , , origen , of the power of words , orpheus 's one god , osiris , bacchus , . apis , . moses , . osarsyphus , disaris , , oxen , how sacred , , , , , , . with their faces cherubim appear'd , , p pagod , what , pamelius , a false charge of his against tertullian , patrocinie of saints , , to pectoral , a lesser ark , permiseer of the benians , of petavius 's calling arius a platonist , , pictures of christ crucified lawful , — none of saints departed , as such , possible , , — of gods shechinah , , to pillar of fire and cloud , what , pix carried as the ark , plato he own'd one god , , — yet he was an idolater , , , to — his triad not the christian trin-unity , , , , , &c. — whence it came , , — his ideas , what , , , , &c. — his daemons , what kind of spirits , , — how far he own'd providence , platonism , an occasion of gnosticism , , plutarch's translation mended , poets , how causes of idolatry , , polytheism , what kind possible , pluto , who , porphyry , his reason for the worship of god by the image of a man , — his translation mended , — his abstracted worship , — his not owning the gods to have been men , prayer , our lords : said to saints , of socrates , and simplicius , to saints , if only to pray for us , , to , &c. — to fictitious persons , , — to some of suspected saintship , , to real presence , , , , , profit , that which did not profit , in jer. . . meant of an idol , providence , its extent acc . to maimon . purgatory fire , one probable occasion of the belief of it , pyramids , what , , pythagoras , his two principles , , , , , — his image among the gnosticks , — his dogma of the imnortality of the soul , not like christs , , — the form of the oath of his disciples , , — his tetractys , not the tetragrammaton , a double quaternary , what it was , , , . r rapine's excess of devotion towards the virgin , representations of god , unmeet , , reprisal of all things at last into gods substance , the cabala of the pendets , resora an indian - idol , revel . . . its various reading , rites of worship , their indecence , & great number taxed , , , , romans , their religion when corrupted , s. rosa made a patroness , w. rufus , his apparition , s. sabbath designed against idolatry , , sacrifices enjoined as a means against idolatry , , saint-worship , two occasions of it , , , , saints , little mention of their appearing , unraised , in ss . solomon 's beginning of idolatry , , sanedrim above , what , saturday , where , and how , sacred to the virgin , sandius his conceit about the holy ghost , scarabee , the hieroglyphick of the sun , scaliger , a mistake of his , not seen his shape , what it means , mr. selden answered about the antiquity of apis , , to semis a northern idol , serapis , pluto , , , — his image , , seraphim , what , , to serpent which seduced eve , what , and in what form , , — of the brazen-serpent , , serpents sacred , , — of the fiery flying kind , servetus his frenzies , signs external , idolatry by them , , to . what allow'd at trent , sleep of the soul , sneezing , prayer at it , , socinians make christ a kind of thinking machine , , sons of god in gen. . , . what , sophocles 's one god , soul of the world , an assistant form , , & , — varro 's god , — called the father in plato , , — not very god as explain'd by plato , , , spalato , his judgment concerning saint-worship , spirit , moving the chaos , whether a mighty wind , spirits , whence their worship , squango , an enthusiast of new-england , statues of idols , what , , , , , , sun and moon the first idols , , sun , a statue , — several hieroglyphicks of it , — called the divine harp , — and the seat of christ , , , superstition , described , , , — of the pharisees , what , syncellus refuted , shechinah , whence , t tabernacle of moloch , what , holy table , by some called the ark , , temple of solomon , what , . whence occasioned acc . to s. chrysost . . and maimon . . — christ the temple , , — prayers towards the temple , teraphim , seraphim , urim , the same , , tertullian 's opinion of idolatry in seth 's time , tetractys of pythagoras , , . of the gnosticks , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what , s. thomas of canterbury a devout servant of the virgins , — his shirt said to be mended by her , — his saintship doubted , thorn , a german idol , , mr. thorndike his opinion of worshipping idols as ultimate objects , . of romish forms of prayer , , . of idolatry as unjustly charged on the church of rome , . of the peril of idolatry in it , throne and fund of matter , what , thrones , principalities , powers , &c. in s. paul , what , , to tillage of egypt , , truth by christ , in joh. . . what , trinity , of its appearing under the old covenant , , triad platonick , how one , thummim , what , , , , , , , to two , why seraphim in the pect . two , v & u vatablus 's exp . of bama , — of the angel of greece , ubiquity , whether ascribed to saints and angels by the worshippers of them , , tho. de villa nova a guardian-saint , , ulma , it s many guardian-spirits , , viretus 's mistake about plato 's image of god , h. virgin. forms of prayer to her , , , , , , , , , , , by some romanists parallel'd — with christ , , , — origine of her worship , , — a general patroness acc . to r. rapine , , . and acc . to the synod of mexico , — her seven joys on earth , and seven more in heaven , — her miracles in recovering baronius , . raising a boy from the dead , . saving men in a tempest , . curing s. gilberts throat , — of bowing at her name , st. veit , visions of god , what , , , vitzilopuchtli , an american idol , urim , what , , to . — how the answer by it was made , w wickmans high devotion towards the virgin , , will-worship , what kind to be allow'd , or condemn'd , , witch of endor , word , christ why so called , worship of romish saints and pagan heroes compared , , , , world , made out of things not seen , what , z zarasdas , or zaratas , who , , christ the true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e a orig. cont . marc. s. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . psal. . . b plut. de superst . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. c socr. hist. eccl. l. . c. . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . d concil . mech . inter . conc. max. c. . de imag. p. . a origen . cont . cels. l. . p. , . b reform . l●…g . eccles. tit. de idol . &c. c. . de superstit . p. . a see their many ceremonies towards the very elements before consecr . in stat. hodiern . eccles. graec. p. . , and in receiving , in christoph. angel . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . b j. d's great sacr. of the new law exp . by the figures of the old . printed , a●… , . a miss . rom. par. . p. . sacerdos paratus cum ingreditur ad altare , facta illi debita reverentia , signat se signo crucis a fronte ad pectus . & clara voce dicit , in nomine , &c. b miss . rom. in ord. miss . p. . c j. d. order of the mass , p. , &c. d j. d. canon of the mass. p. . . a lassels in voy. to italy . p. . b ritual . roman . p. . . ed. antv. . c missale roman . in sabbato sancto . p : , . ed. paris , . see pontif. rom. de officio sab. sanct. fol. , &c. d miss . ro●… p. . a pontif. rom. part , fol. , &c. b pont. rom. part . fol. , &c. c pontif. rom. part . fol. . e journey of english to jerus . p. . a matt. . , , , , . b hieros . beracoth , fol. . ap . d. lightf . in matt. . . p. , . c see drusius , on matt. . . d matt. . . a culver , light of nat. c. . p. . some superstitious ones , how devoutly do they complement with a candle , & c ? b abridgement of christ. doctr. in expos . of the comm. of the church of rome . p. . a lutherus referente hofner●… in saxon. evang. p. . nibil pestilentius in ecclesiâ potest doceri , quam si ea quae necessaria non sunt , necessaria fiant . hâc enim tyrannide — mendacium pro veritate , idolum pro deo — colitur . notes for div a -e a philo jud. de monarch . l. . p. . b reform . leg. eccles. tit. de idol . c. . p. . a plin. nat . hist. l. . c. . p. . a theodor. mopsuest . epist. apud photium in biblioth . cod. . p. . c gages new survey of the west-indies . c. . p. , . c gage ibid. p. . a ol. worm . monum . danic . l. . c. . a acts . . a or rather in his jupiter tragaedus . p. . for i find nothing like it in his book de sacr. though pignorius , in exp. mens . isiac . p. . has thence cited it . b arnob. l. . p. . — in liberi dextrâ pendens potorius cantharus . c see. f. h. testimony . a porphyr . d●… abstin . l. . p. , . a kircher . in oedip. aeg . synt. . c. . p. . b epicharm . ap . stobe●…min serm . . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a st. cyril . alex . cont . julian . l. . p. . b hakluits navigations . p. . a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . eustath . ad odyss . b job . , . c psal. . . — prosternamur , incurvemus nos , genuflectamus . see petr. picherell . de imagin . p. , , , &c. d concil . rhem. inter conc. max. p. . externae ceremoniae sunt institutae ad declarandam suam in deum affectionem . notes for div a -e a rom. . . b porphyr . ap . euseb. de praep . evangel . l. . c. . p. . a erpen . proverb . arab. p. . b bernier in his letter to mr. de la mothe le vayer . p. , . c lactant. p. . sed ●…erentur nè omnis religio eorum inanis sit , & vana , si nihil in praesenti videant , quod adorent . a plin. nat . hist. l. . c. . p. . — per quae [ nempe illa quae ne quidem deus potest ] declaratur haud dubi●… naturae potentia , idque esse quod deum vocamus . b tract . theol. polit . c. . de mirac . p. . ed. . virtus & potentia materiae ipsa dei virtus & potentia ; leges autem & regulae naturae , ipsa dei decreta , &c. c plin. ubi suprà . p. . d gott a teut. gut , bonus . e grotii proleg . histor. gott . & va●…dal . p. a ush . de primord . eccles. britan. p. . b consultwisd - . , , , , . c hist. of the carib . isl. p. . d lucian . in necyomantia . p. . ad tigridem me fl●…vium ducens , purgavit simul atque abster fit , saceque lustravit , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b oedip. egypt , theatr. c. 〈◊〉 . p. , . c clem. alex. admon . ad gent. p. . d berni●…rs memoirs . tome . . p. , , . e taverni●…'s travels into india . part . l. . c. . p. . a acts . b arnob. adv . gentes . l. . p. . c wisd. . , . d see mandeslo's travels concern . the pillars of the japoneses . p. . e wisd . . f wisd. . . the singular diligence of the artificer did help to set forward the ignorant to more superstition . g luciani ver . hist. l. . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b lucian . de deâ syriâ . p. . c cart. seconda parte delle imagini de i dei. p. , , , , , , , , , , , . d see kircher's oëd. aeg . synt. . c. . p. . e see bzov. ad ann. . & hotting . eccles . histor. vol. . p. . see also themirac . discov . of our ladies image on mount serat , in aug. wichman's sabbatismus marianus . c. . p. , : a schualenberg in aphorism . hieroglyphic . l. . p. , . a by filesacus who referreth to l. . cod. de sum . trin. tit. . — ex coelesti arbitrio sumpserimus . though that may be meant of arbitr . divinum . see gothof . in . cod. theod. de fide cathol . p. . a berniers memoirs . tom. . p. . b juven . sat . . — tua sacra & major imago humanâ , turbat pavidum — dido ap . virg. aen . . et nun●… magna mei sub terras ibit imago . c prov. . . lxx. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a see martyrol . roman . in jan. . b c. sueton. in vitâ jul. caes. ad fin . p. . c seneca , de benef . l. . c. . p. . — quid enim aliud est natura , quam deus , toti mu●…do & partib●…s ejus inserta ? d bernier's memoirs , tom. . p. , . a pornut . de naturâ deorum , p. , , , , . b lex : tab. tit. de rel. illos quos in coelum merita vocâ●…unt , herculem , liberum , aeseulapium , castorem , pollucem , quirinum . et illa propter quae datur bujusmodi adscensus in coelum : mentem , virtutem , pietatem , fidem ; earum laudum delubra sunto : notes for div a -e a wisd. . . b see tertul. de idolatr . sect. . p. , &c. — idem enoch simul & cultores idoli & fabricatores in comminatione praedamnat . c s. cyr. alex. l. . contr . jul. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d cyr. alex. ibid. p. . a. & l. . p. . a. a tertullian thus begins his book de idol . principale crimen generis bumani , summus seculi reatus , tota causa judicii idolatria . b lactant. lib. . instit. c. . p. . c greg. naz. orat. . de idol . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . d gen. . , , . e gen. . , . a gen. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a maimon . de idolatr . c. . p. . b cyril . alex. contra julian . l. . p. . & l. . p. . b s. cyr. ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . see elucidar . ( inter op. anselm . ) i. . c. . p. . de orig. idol . — apud babel , &c. c porphyr . ap . euseb. de prap . evang. l. . c. . p. . a kircher in oedip. synt. . c. . p. . b kircher ibidem . see als●… p. , . c votaque pyramidum celsas solvuntur ad aras . d murtadi of the prodig . of egypt acc . to the arabians . p. . e alvarez simedo in hist. chin. part . . c. . p. . f see laurenb . corinth . & sicyon . p. . a pet. mart. legat. babyl . l. . p. . b gage in his new survey of the west-indies . c. . p. , . c see kircher's oedip. synt. . c. . p. , . d hist. of the carib . isl. b. . c. . p. , , &c. see kirch . oëd. tom. . p : . c. . of mount pagoda ; e gen. . . a jarchi ap . dionys. voss. in maimon . de idol . c. . p. . b job . , , . c deut. . . d ap. dionys. voss. in maim . de idol . p. . e diodor. sicul. bibl. histor. l. . c. . p. . a lucianus de deâ syria . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. b diodor. sicul. biblioth . l. . c. . p. . a see mr. selden's prolegom . to synt. de diis syris . p. . b lucian . de astrologiâ . p. . d. c plato ap . laert . p. . l. , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d varro ap . s. august . de civ . dei. l. . c. . p. . e villault's rel. of a voyage to guinee . p. . notes for div a -e a job . . b porphyr . ap euseb. de praepar . evang. l. . c. . p. . c mandeslo in his trav. p. . they have no knowledg of the worlds creation , &c. a cor. . . b acts . . c d. m. antid . ag . idol . and reply . p. . see spal . de rep. ●…ccl . l. . c. . p. . d rom ; . , . a cor. . . psal. . . jer. . . thes. . . b see the statue of ifis in kirch . oedip. synt. . c. . p. . c pornutus de nat. deor. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d bardes . syr. ap . porphyr . fragm . at styge , p. , . a pignor. de mensâ isiacâ . p. , . b t●… . tibi una . quae es . omnia . dea . isis. arrius babi●…us v. c ; c macrob. saturn . l. . c. . p. . d sol. opt. max. — mens mundi . dux omnium princepsq●… . e porphyr . de abstinen . l. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. a see marsh. cron. can. p. , . b macrob. saturn . l. . c. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. c pornut . de nat. deor . p. . de jove . d s. aug. de ci●… . dei. l. , c. . p. , . a see porphyr . de abstin . b s. chrys. op , vol. . de trin. p. . b. c. c cyr. alex. contra julian . l. . p. . a. a cyr. ibid. p . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. b cyr. ib. p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. — c cyr. ib. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b arch. pytbag , ap . stobaeum , in serm. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. c tim. locr. de an. mundi . inter op . plat. v. . p. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d plat. polit. vol. . p. . c. e. and p. . a. e plat. in soph. vol. . p. . c. f plato in timae●… . vol. . p. . g arnob. adv . gent. l. . p. . plato ille divinus multa de deo digna , nec communia sentiens multitudini , — deos dicit — corruptibiles esse naturâ , sed voluntate dei — vinctione in perpetuâ contineri . a plato ibid. p. . b. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b tim. locr. de an : mun●…i , inter opufc . graec. p. . c sallust . de diis & mundo , c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d stobae . serm. . de diis . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a mandesto's travels into the indies . l. . p. . a also of the arabians . see abul farajius and sharestanius in not . pocock . p. . and of the gaurs or antient persians , see the trav. of tavernier . l. . c. . p. . b l. ann. florus . l. . c. . p. , . and dion . halicarn . l. , sect. . p. , , , &c. c dion . hal. ibid. p. . d flor. ibid. ille sacra , & ceremonias , omnemque cultum deorum immortalium docuit : ille pontifices , augures , &c. e see dion . halicarn . l. . p. , . of the unknown myst . of numa . a see lud. viv. in s. aug. de civ . dei. l. . c. . p. . b tertul. apolo . get . sect. . p. . — nidor exilis , & deus ipse nusquam . c cicero de nat . deor. l. . op. p. . — fed nos deum , nisi sempiternum , iutelligere quî possumus ? d ap. stobae . serm. . de regno . p. , , . e callim . ap . orig. cont. cels. l. . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — see tertul. apol. sect. . p. . sed non ●…tatim & jupiter cretam suam , &c. a arnob. l. . p. . b tertul. de idol . sect. . p. . c chytr . mon. roman . a. . p. . d see the inser . ap . saubert . de sacrific . c. . p. . i. o. m. caeterisque dis consentib . e plato in euthy . p. . vol. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. a marc. anton. ap . just. mart. in sine apol. . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — b cic. de nat . deor . l. . p. , adspice boc sublime candens , quem invocant omnes jovem . c simplic . in epict. enchir. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d socr. ap . platon . phaedr . in fine . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. d plat. alcib . . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. f p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. g plato in timmaeo . vol. . p. . a plato de legibus . l. . vol. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b plato in the●…g . vol. . p. . c mart. hist. sin. l. . p. . d orig. contr . ce●…s . l. . p. . a orig. contr . cels. l. . p. . a julian apost . ap . s. cyril . alex . l. . ad init. p. . b julian in fragm . p. . oper. c jul. ap . cyr. al. l. . cont . jul. p. . d ap. cyr. al. l. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . e jul. in frag. epist. p. . op . f s. cyr. l. . p. , . g id. l . contr . jul. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a kings . , . b hosea . . , . a callicr . ap . stob. serm. . p. . . b plutarch . de audiend . poet. p. . c max. tyr : dissert . . utrum diis sint dicandae statuae . p. . a orig. contr . cels. l. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. b plato in epinom . p. , . a maimon . de idol . l. . c. . p. . b l. . c. : c diod. sic. bibl . hift. l. . c. . p. . d ap. gassendum , in vol. . op. l. . p. . & in marm. farnes . ap . stew. elect. p. . a dorylaits , ap . censor . de die nat . c. . p. . a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . porphyr . de thebaidos incolis . coelum est testa ; item vitellùm , terra ; inter illa duo humor quasi in sinum clusus aeri , in quo calor . varro . see voss. de theol. gentil . l. . c. . p. . a l. a. flor. l. . c. . de numâ , p. p. . ille ancilia , atque palladium , secreta quaedam imperiipignora , &c. b macr. in som●… scipion. l. . c. . p. . nullum ejus [ h. e. summi dei ] simulachrum , quod cum dis aliis constitueretur , finxit antiquitas . c viret . de orig . vet . & novae idol . l. . c. . p. . d plato de legibus . l. . p. , . e pl●…n . nat . hist. l. . c. . p. . — lignea , &c. deorsimul . — usque ad devictam asiam . — a porphyr . ap . euseb. de praep. evang. l. . c. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. b cartari imag. par. . p. , imagine del dio creatore degli egittii , &c. c porph. ap . eus. de praep . evang. l. . c. . p. , . d orig. contr , cels. l. . p. . e cels. ap . orig. ibid. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a j. mather in hist. of the war in new-england with the indians . p. . a kirch . oed. synt. . c. . p. . b ap. kirch . ibid. synt. . c. . p. . c id. ibid. tom. . p. . d p. . e p. ●… . f p. . g p. . h p. . i p. . k p. . l p. . m s. aug. de civ . de●… . l. . c. . quod ●…tiam platonici , licet de uno ve . ro deo bene senserint , multis tamen diis sa●…ra facienda censuerunt . a tertull. de animâ . c. . p. . doleo bonâ fide platonem omnium haereticorum condimentarium sactum . b petav. de trin. l. . c. . sect. . c porphyr . ap . s. cyr. contr . jul. l. . p. . d id. ib. p. . d. e. in l. . philos. hist. a cyril . ibid. p. . b. c. b porph. ib. p. . c. d. c plato in parmen . p. . vol. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. et ap . cyy. l. . cont . jul. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d anon. de vitâ pythag. p. . a tertull. de animâ , c. . p. . b see serran . in arg. timael platon . pag. . c see sallust . de diis & mundo . c. . p. . d see serran . in arg. timaei , p. . a sallust . de diis & mundo . c. . p. , . b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a plato ap . s. cyr. alex. cont . julian . l. . p. . b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c plato de leg. lib. . vol. . p. , , , , . . d id. p. ▪ e id. p. . f id. in phaed. vol. . p. , . g id. ibid. p. . a. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . h jul. ap . s. cyr. l. . p. . i porphyr . de abstin . l. . sect . . p. . k elm. in not. in arnob. l. . p. . jovi opt. max. & geni●… loci . l alv. simed●… in hist. sin. part . . c. . p. , . a mandesto's travels , l. . p. . b see isai. . , . c. . , , . c. . , , . c s. cyr. alex. cont . jul. l. . p : . a vatabl. in dan. . . singulae regi●…nes habent presides singulos . b dan. . . c vers. ●… a act. . , , . b cor. . . c see iren. l. . c. . p. , . d vide iren. passim , & s. aug. de haer. in haer. val. c. . p. , . e maimon . more neb. part . . c. . p. , , . a s. cyril . al. cont . jul. l. . p. . b isa. . . c aug. de civ . dei , l. . p. . c. . de sententiâ platonis quâ definivit deos non esse nisi bonos amicosque virtutum . d plato in phaedon . vol. . p. . b. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. a porphyr . l. . de abstin . sect. . p. . b cor. . . c a p. s. cyril . al. cont . jul. l. . p. . see porph. in l. . de abstin . sect. . p. , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , [ vehiculum aereum , rather than , pars spiritalis , used by the translator , ] 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d see s. cyril . contr . jul. l . p. . e porphyr . de abstin . l. . p. , , , &c. a orig. cont . cels . l. . p. . b id. ibid. p. . c gage in his survey of the west-ind . c. . p. . a ruffin . eccles. hist. l. . c. . b olymp. soph. ap . soz. hist. eccles. l. . c. . p. . ed. ●…ales . c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. a arnob. adv . gent. l. . p. , &c. b lact. l. . de orig. err. sect. . p. , , , , . c cels. ap . orig. l. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; d julian . in fragm . inter op. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . e see mr. greg. notes on the place . f sam. . , , . a isa. . , , , , , . & . , to . & . . & . , . hab. . , , . zach. . , . b de la recherche de la verite . tom. . liv . . c. . p. , . c plato de legibus , l. . p. , . d gage in survey of west-ind . c. . p. , to p. . a apud reicheltum de amuletis . p. . b see pincieri aenigm . l. . aenig . . p. , . c dion . halicarn . rom. ant. l. . sect . . p. , . a tertull. de idol . p. . soccus & baxa deaurantur , &c. see isai. . . b porphyr . de stat. brachman . ap . bardes . syr. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. c vincent le blanc in his travels , p. . d le blanc , p. . e della valle in his travels , p. , . a lips. oper. tom. . pag. , . ed. vesal . . b p. d. valle , p. . c arnob. contr . gent. l. . p. . a arnob. l. . p. , . b gass. in vitâ peiresk . l. . p. . l. . p. , . c see isa. . . remember this [ viz. v. . that idols can't move , or answer , ] and shew your selves men , isa. . . there is no understanding to say , i have burnt part of it in the fire . d see isa. . , . e arnob. l. . p. , . beneficia poscebam nihil sentiente de trunco . l. . p. . amentia deum credere , quem tute ipse formaris ? supplicare tremebundum fabricatae abs te rei ? p. . non videtis ' sub istorum simulachrorum cavis — mures — babitare ? — in ore — ab araneis ordiri retia ? a mr. thorndike's epilogue , part . p. . b amos . . a see porphyr . de abstin . l. . sect. . p. . & l. . sect. . p. . and see upon his words there , s. cyr. alex. cont . jul. l. . p. , . b alvarez simedo in hist. sin. par. . c. . p. . c jer. . . they are altogether brutish , the stock is a doctrine of vanities . notes for div a -e a de exhort . martyr . c. . p. . non facies tibi idolum . b hottinger . in cipp . hebraic . p. . c grot. in decal . p. . in hebraeo , non feres , nempe in ore tuo , quod idem est cum illo , non sumes in os scilicet . a see fagius on numb . . . and see deut. . . b tertull. de idololat . sect. . p. , . c exod. . . d id. ib. — in van●… , id ●…ft i●… ido●… aquilas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vers . interlin . i●… vanum . a hos. . . b so the vulg . latine renders aven in hosea . . galaad civitas opexa●…tium idolum . see josh. . . neither make mention os the name os their gods , nor cause to swear by them , neither serve them , nor bow your selves unto them . see jer. . , . a mr. mede's discours . . of the sabbath , p. . b exod. . , , , . c s. cyril . alex. contr . julian . 〈◊〉 . p. . a id. ibid. p. , . b maim . more nevochim . par . . c. . p. . a act. . , to . amos . , . * see thorndik . epilogue , c. . p. . b josh. . , to . c judg. . , , , , , . d judg. . , , , . e sam. . f sam. . , . a see grotius on judg. . . p. . ap . crit. maj . b king. . , to . c king. . . d abulsarajus , p. . mortuus est [ solomon ] sine poenitentiâ . e king. . ●… , , . a king. . . b chron. . , to . * diod. sic. ap . phot. bibl. p. . de statuâ mosis asino insidentis . undè judaei ( forte ) dicti asinarii . c see mac. . d mach. . . e vers. , , , . a philo jud. in flaccum , p. , , &c. b see diod. sic. ap . phot. bibl. p. . affirming concerning the jews , that by reason of the persian and mac●…donian victories , they suffered many alterations , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c deut. . . see r. sal. francu , p. . a see menasseh ben israel , in quaest. . in deut. p. . b r. sal. france , p. , 〈◊〉 . c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a see leonclav . pand. hist. turcic . p. . b julian . ap . cyr. l. . . c seld. de diis syris , synt. . c. . p. , . d rabbin . prov. ap . h. othon . lex . c. rabbin . in judic . s. s. in joh. . . omnia ad coelum , i. e. omnia ad gloriam dei. a exod. . , ●… , . b see moses gerund . ap . seld. synt. de diis syris , c. de vit aur. p. . c nehem. . . a tertull. de idol . sect. . p. . b philo jud. de vitâ mosis . l. . p. . c. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. c lactant. l. . c. . de vera sap. p. . d s. hieron . in hos. c. . v. . tom. . p. . d. e tostat. in exod. c. . quaest. . f catech. concil . trident. in . praec . decal . p. . — inter — hebraeos , permulti fuerunt , quiz ut helias iis obji●… ciebat , in duas partes claudicabant : quod & samaritae fecerunt , qui deum israelis & deosgentiunt colebant . g king. . , . h v. . ahab did evil above all before him . v. . he out-sin'd jeroboam . i hos. . . k amo ▪ . , ●… a hos. . , . tobit . . . king. . . compar . with rom. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , ( as mr. thornd . in epil . part. . p. . ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; or , it may be , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b king. . . c king. . . d vers. . a judg. . . b wisd. . . men serving either calamity or tyranny , did ascribe unto stones and stocks , the incommunicable name . c deut. . . take heed to thy self that thou offerest not thy burnt-offerings in every place that thou seest . d in chap. . e altis . sum. l. . c. . non in quolibet signo adorandus eft deus , sed in proprio ; sicut movses adoravit deum in rubo in quo loquebatur ei , &c. & abraham in angelo : undè non est adorandus in lapide , esset enim idololatria , de non proprio signo dei sacere proprium . a secundum horum ap . macrob. saturn . l. . c. . p. . b herod . euterpt . p. , . c king. . , , &c. d exod. . , . e act. . , . f herod . in thal. p. , . g herod . ibid. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a see is. voss. de aet . mundi . p. . b see pignor. de mens●… isiac●… . p. , . c exod. . , . a hence the symbol of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is interpreted of not killing or not sacrificing animals . b strabo l. . geogr. p. . c see vattier's pref. to muctadi's prod. of egypt , p. , . d ovid. l. . fast. bos aret , ignavam sacrificate suem . e strab. l. . geogr. p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . f act. . , . g seld. de diis syris . synt. . c. . de vit . aur. p. . a cuperi harp●…cr . p. , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . b seld. ibid - de aur. vit . p. : c seld. ibid. p. . imò in sec. post cataclys . dyn . sub choo rege , api●… & mnevin & mendesium caprum , in deos relatos , ex manethone sacerdote tradit [ eusebius ] . a scalig. ap . voss. l. . de idol . c. . p. . ex hâc dyn . patet , diversos reges , eod . temp . in aeg . divers . partib . imperium obtinuisse . nam quando saïtes primus dyn . . ex latrunc . pastor . circa bucolia aeg . jam dec . ann. regnabat 〈◊〉 part . theb. regn. inivit menes theba●…us . b eus. de praep . evang. l. . ch . . p. . c see is. voss. de aet . mundi . p. . a seld. de vit . aur●…o , in synt. . c. . p. . b plutarc . de is. & osyr . p. , d. c plin. nat. hist. l. . c. . p. . . d herod . in thaliâ . p. . e id. in euterpe . p. . f lucian . de d●…â syr. p. . g diod. sic. l. . bibl. histor. c. . p. . b porphyr . ap . euseb. de praep. evang. l. . c. . p. . c herod . l. . p. . c. d. a ruffin . eccl. hist. l. . c. . b see kirch . oed. synt. . c. . p. . a id. ibid. p. . b d. marsh. chron. canon . secul . . p. , . c clem. alex. strom. l. . p. . a. & ap . euseb. de praep. ev. l. . c. . p. . d s. cyr. cont . julian . l. . p. . a see kirch . oed. synt. . c. . p. . b ger. voss. d●… idol . l. . c. . p. . c hecataeus ap : clem. alex. p. . see s. aug. de civit. dei. l. . c. . p. . d arnob. adv . gent. l. . p. . e herod . in euterpe . p. . & in thalia . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. f aelian . de animal . l. . c. . g ap. euseb. de praep. evang. l. . c. . p. . ex clem. strom. prim . h see d. marsh. chron. can. p. . a suppl . v. . b apoll. bibl. l. . c. . p. , . c herod . l. . p. . d syncellus , p. . c. e apollod . l. . c. . p. . compar'd with syncellus . f ap. euseb. de praep. evang. l. . c. . p. , &c. . p. . g see cuperi harpocr . p. , , . a horus apud macrob. sat. l. . c. . p. . b cels. ap . orig. cont . cels. l. . p. . c s. cyril . a●… cont . jul. l. . p. . a ap. thomasium de tesseris hospital . c. . p. , . b julian . ap . socrat. hist. eccles. l. . c. . p. , , . c id. ibid. p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . d ib. p. . e porphyr . ap . euseb. de praep. evangel . l. . c. . &c. . p. , . a voss. de idol l. . c. . p. ▪ , &c. b abeneph . & abenez . ap . kirch . oëd. syn. . c. . p. . a see euseb. de praep. ev. l. . c. . p. . b clem. alex. strom. l. . p. , . c sanford . de descensu christi adinf . l. . p. , , , , &c. d ger. voss. de idol . l. . c. . p. , , &c. e herb. de relig. gentil . in baccho . p. , , . a lactant. l. . defals . relig. sect. . p. , , . a quint. curt. l . p. . b herod . l. . p : . c — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . d ovid. l. . fast ora micant tauri septem radiantia flammis , navita quas hyadas grajus ab imbrevocat . pars bacchum nutrisse putat . — a cuperus in harpocr . p. . b see pignor. mens . isiac . p. , . & kircheri oëd. synt. . c. . p. . c diod. sic. l. . c. . p. . macr. sat. l. . c. . p. , . d macrob. sat. l. . c. . p. . e serv. ad aen . l. . ipse enim est sol , & liber pater . f macr. sat. ib. p. . g lucian . de astrolog . pag. . a herod . l. . p. . b diod. sic. l. . c. . p. . c id. ib. c. . p. . d plutare . in is. & osir. p. . c. e diod. sic. l. . c. . p. , . f pignor. de mens . isia . p. . g ogygia me . bacchum vocant , osirin aegyptus putat . auson . see plutarc . de is. & cuperi harpocr . p. . h herod . euterp . p. . i diod. sic. l. . c. . p. . k strabo geog. l. ●… . p. . a macrob. sat. l. . c. . p . annot. . pontani satyr . &c. exclamare libet populus quod clamat osiri — invento — clamatum a●…tem uti invenio in glossis vetustis , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . de ap. vide herod . in thal. p. , . de osir. & ap. vide tibull . l. . eleg. . p. . te canit , atque suum , pubes , miratur osirim , barbara , memphitem plangere docta bovem . b anton. liberal . meta. c. . p. . c see aelian . l. . c. . & pignor. mens . isiac . , . d see marsh. chron. can. p. . e macrob. sat. l. . c. . p. . f plutar●… . de is. & osir. p. . g seld. de diis syris synt. . c. . p. . h cuper . harpocr . p. . pignor. de mensâ isiacâ . p. . a s. cyr. alex. contr . julian . l. . p. , . a diod. sic. ap . s. cyr. ibid. p. . e. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b psal. . . c exod. . . d ecclus. . . e ver. . a philo jud. de praem . & p●…n . p. . d. b r. jos. ap . com. in main . de fundam . leg. p. . a artap . ap . eus. de praep. evang. l. . c. . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b id. ibid. p. . a de bacch●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . see iön . p — in athen . deipn . l. . p. . & casaub . not. p. . b see pignor. de mensâ isiacâ . p. . c artap . ap . eus. de praep. ev. l. . c. . p. . a m. vatt . p●…to prod. of egypt , p. , . b see natal . com. p. . c diod. sic. l. . c. . p. . a voss. de idol . l. . c. . p. , , &c. b psal. . . psal. . . lxx . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c gen. . . abir jagnakob . in our translation , the mighty god of jacob. a strab. geogr. l. . p. . b plutarch . d●… is. & osir. p. . c. see d. marsh. cron. can. p . diod. l. . c. . p. . strab. l. . p. . c macrob. l. . sat. c. . p. . a d. marsh. p. , , &c. b plin. nat. hist. l. . c. . p. . a porphyr . dt abstin . l. . sect . . p. . b herod . enter . p. . c. & p. . a herod . l. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. b strab. in . . geog. p. . c. c see heylin . g●…og . in egypt . p. . d see seld. de diis syr. synt. . c. . p. . a erpen . prov. arab. p. . notes for div a -e b de idol . arabvide abul farajium de orig. & mor. arab. & not . pocock . p. , &c. c alkor . sur. . d see seld. de diis syr. synt. . c. . p. . e hotting . hist. oriental . l. . c. . de rel. vet . arab. p. . f herod . l. . p . d. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . g id. l. . p . d. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a hotting . hist. orient . p. . b tertull. in apolog. sect . . p. . ed. par. . unic●…ique etiam provinciae & civitati suus deus est , ut syriae astartes , ut arabiae disares , &c. a muha●…ed ben abibecher , ( who receiv'd as is said , the forty apothegms of mahomet , from his mouth , ) in hott . de pseud●… mah. initlo . l. . c. . p. . b ap. sold●… de diis syr. syntag. . c. . de venere syriac . p. , . c elmacin . hist. saracen . l. . c. . p. . d ap. hott . de rel. vet . arab. p. . e pocock . in abul phar. p. . a id. ibid. p. . b m. guilla●…ier's voy. to athens , p. . c curt. de clavis dominicis . c. . p. . mahumetani prophetae sui urnam — colunt . a id. ibid. ai●… atque iterùm ai●… , sacratissimos red. nostri clavos cultum & eum summum mereri . ità hebraei olim virgam aaronis , &c. b hotting ci●… . hebr. p. , , , , &c. notes for div a -e a maxim. al. orig. in exhort . ●…d martyr . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . origen . contr . cels. l. . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b joh. . , . a epiphan . h●…r : . b s. aug. cat. hoeres . c. . p. , . &c. . p. , . c alcin. de doctr. plat. c. . p. . a alcin. ib. p. , . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — b id. ib. c. . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — c id. ib. c. . p. , &c. d iren. l. . c. . p. . e orig. d●…al . cont . m●…rc . sect. . p. . a see pigno mens . isiac . p. . b alcin. c. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c gassend . in vitâ peireskii . l. . p. . ed. hagae-com . . d see the basil . gem in cuperi harpocr . p. . abpaca . — zcigi . if the disjoin'd z belongs not to the first word : for sigi needs it not . e see epiphan . haer. . and haer. . th●…od . de haer. sab . l. . in basilide . et iren. l. . c. . p. , . f s. aug. cat. haer. c. . p. , . g id. ibid. c. . in saturnino . p. 〈◊〉 , . h s. hier. tom. . p. . a iren. l. . c. . p. . b epiphan . haer. . c baron . annal. tom. . p. . d timaeus locr. de an. mundi , p. . e alcin. de doct. plat. c. . p. , &c. f irenaeus adv . haer. l. . c. . p. , &c. c. . p. , &c. l. . c. . p. , &c. c. . p. . a see doctiss. vind. epist. s. ignatii , par . . c. . p. , &c. p. , &c. b s. aug. de haer. c. . p. . iren. l. . c. . p. , . c cels. ap . orig. l. . p. . d orig. contr . cels. ib p. . e id. ib. p. . f see epiphan . haer. . g iren. l. . c. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. h s. hieron . tom. . op . p. . i iren. l. . c. . p. . see feuardent . annot. p. . a see joh. macar . de gemmis basilid . cum commentar . joh. chiffletii , . antv. . b see epist. . to is. casaub . c gassend . in vitâ peir . l. . p. . d see the charm of q. serenus sarmonicus a disci . of basil. in baron . annal. tom. . a. c. . p. , . e consider well what is said ( in marian . ap . card. raspon . de basil . later . l. . ) of the original of the popes agnus dei's : the masons digging in the vatican , found a lamb of wax in a golden case , on which these words were engrav'd , maria nostra florentissima , michael , gabriel , raphael archangel , & uriel . simon , itseems , hath been at rome . f pignor. de mensâ isiacâ , p. . g see hotting . cipp . hebratc . p. , , &c. h iren. adv . haer. l. . c. . p. , . a s. aug. cat. haer. c. 〈◊〉 . p. : b id. ibid. c. . p. . de carpocr . c mr thorndike's just weights and measures , c. : p. . d leo max. ser. . de fest. pent. sect. . p. . manichaeus — magister fals●…tatis diabolicae & conditor superstitiouis obscaenae , &c. e lucus holst . de vitâ & script . p●…rphyr . p. 〈◊〉 ▪ a s. aug. l. . confess . c. . vanum phantasma & error meus , erat deus meus . notes for div a -e b arnob. adv . gent. l. . p. . , — quod hominem natum , &c. quotidianis supplicat . adoratis . c arnob. ib. p. . — quinam sunt hi dii — &c. — hercules — flammis concre-matus oëtaeis . d orig. contr . cels. l. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a phil. . , . b iren. l. . c. . p. . c maxim. in dial. contr . marcion . sect . . p. . see socr. hist. eccles. l. . c. , . p. , , &c. ed. vales , & soz. h. eccl. l. . c. . p. . d m. serv. l. . de trin. p. . e servet . resp. ad artic. joh. calvini . ad art. . p. . planè dico carnem christi de coelo esse secundum essentiam deitatis . id. de trin. l. . p. . non solum in anim●… sed & in carne christi est substantialis deitas . a see procl . episcop . c. p. ad armen . de fide. p. , &c. b athanas. or. . cont . arian . p. . b. c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , using promiscuously worship and latria . d servierunt creaturae priùs quàm creatori . e for athan. reads it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , though 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be not in our copies of the n. t. f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. g athan. or. . cont . arian . tom. . p. , . a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which the translator has improperly rendred , vocabulum aethnicorum . b s. athanas. p. . tom. . b. c polon . consens . in corp. confess . p. . christ. sand. l. . hist. eccl. enucl . p. . ed. . d alex. alexandriae episc. in gelas. hist. conc . nicaen . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. socrat. l. . eccl. hist. c. . p. . e see hilar. de syn. advers . arianos , p. , , &c. a quisquis talem cogitat deum qualis non ●…st , alienum & falsum deum corde suo portat . b disquis . brev. c. . p. . credunt [ evangelici ] reipsâ mortuos vivere . ●…o nimirum modo , quo petrum , paulum , aliosque demortuos in coelis vivere asserunt ; hoc autem fundamentum est , non tantum purgatorii , sed & nesandae istius idololatriae quae in sanctorum demortuorum invocatione apud pontificios cernitur . a see socin . de invocat . christi , in vol. . oper . p. , &c. and his disput. with christian. franken . p. . b joh. . . c col. . , , . a comp. socin . c. . sect. . p. . — creatio — christo tribuitur . resp. illic agi de secundâ , non de primâ rerum creatione , h. e. mundi innovatione , quoad religionem & regnum christi . b heb. . . a act. . . b see of the gnostic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 iren. l. . c. . &c. . p. . and of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of megithius the marcionite in orig. dial. con . marc. sect. . p. , , . and of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 see iren. l. . c. . p. . where of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the elements of marcus. c ign. epist. interpol . ad . philadelph . p. . ed. voss. a — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. b col. . . c vers. . d ver. , . e vers. . a irenaeus adv . haer. l. . c. . p. . b iren. l. . c. . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. c isa. . , . see also verses , , , , , , , . d isa. . , . a isa , . , . b jer. . , , . c see gerard. voss. de idol . l. . p. . a euseb. eccles. hist. l. . c. . ad fin . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b id. contra sabell . l. . p. . ed. sirmond . c compendiolum socinianismi , c. . sect. . p. . — hinc colligunt animas post mortem nihil sentire aut agere , imo ne quidem in se reipsâ subsistere ut personas : atque hoc esse quod passim dicitur in v. t. mortuos non habere memoriam dei. — item hunc esse descensum ad inferos , cum quis in statum mortuorum redigitur . d vind. conses . eccles. polon . p. . a isa. . , ●… , , , . b see isa. . from , to . &c. . , to . c isa. . , . d isa. . , . a isa. . , , . b jer. . , , . c zach. , , . d zach. . . e hab. . , , , . isa. . , , . g isa. . , , . a isa. . , , see ch. . . b isa. . . & . . c see ch. : . & ch. . . d confess . schlicht . vind. c. . p , . multorum deorum cultores non sumus . — christum , enim colimus , tanquam à summo potestatem rerum omnium adeptum , & , sicut nomine illius , sic ad gloriam illius , imperantem . e s. athan. op . vol. . p. . a. a in templo afrano . ap . nath. chytraei monumenta misnica . p. , . b victor cbriste . — in te credo unum . — c ap. saubertum de sacrificiis . c. . p. . d. m. [ i. e. deo maximo ] neptuno sacrum . d s. cypr. de bono patientiae , sect. , . p. . hic est qui cum in passione tacuerit , &c. hic est deus noster , &c. a rev. . . b jesum dominum adora . so s. cyprian readeth the text , we , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 worship god. notes for div a -e a mr. thorndike in just weights and measures , c. . p. , . b ch , . p. . a leonclav . pandect . hist. turc . p. . b grotius i●… annot. ad co●…sult . cassand . p. . — et jud●…i ac mabumetistae earum [ h. e. imaginum ] aspect●… multum avertantur à christianism●… . c see the preface of st. cyril to his conf. ap . hotting . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d s. cyr. in . res●…ad interrog . . p. . e col. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . f ap. hotting . p. . g conf. helv. in corp. confess . c. . p. . — rejicimus itaque non modo gentium idola , sed & christianorum simulachra . a scot. consaff . ap . synt. conf. p. , . b polon . conf. p. , . c consessio argentin . [ id est civ . . imper. arg. conf●… . mem. lindav . ] c. . p. , . d confess . aug. c. . p. . hic mos gloriam soli deo debitam transfert ad homines , &c. e conf. saxon. p. , . 〈◊〉 hanc corrupte . ●…am athnicam , &c. f conf. wirt . de euchar. p. . de invoc . sanct. p. , . a conf. bohem. art. . de cultu sanct. p. . — insuper docent honorem & cultum de●… debitum , non esse ad sanctos , nec eorum imagines transferendum , &c. b conf. bas. art. . de illicitis permiss . papanis , atque in specie de cultu rel. sanct. &c. p. , c see synode de lion. a. . de rochel . a. . de gergeau . a. . in the book of j. d huisseau . called la discipt . des eg●…ises refformees de france . c. . p. , . a missal . rom. in orat. post missam . ador●… 〈◊〉 devotè latens deit as ! quae sub his figuris verè latitas . a see l'estranges alliance of div. offices , p. , . c. . — not — that any adoration is done to the bread and wine there bodily received , or unto any real or essential presence there being of christs natural flesh and blood . . book of e. . b juellus in apol. eccl. ang. sect. . p. , — christum enim asserimus verè se praesentem exhibere in sacramentis suis : in baptismo , ut eum induamus : in caenâ , ut eum fide & spiritu comedamus , & de ejus cruce ac sanguine habeamus vita●… aeternam . a deut. . . b ed. . injunct . a. . ap . d. epise . nordov . ed. . p . c q. eliz. injunct . a. . p. . d art. of inquiry , p. . a corp. confess . . part . p. . and jewel's apol. eccl. anglic. sect. . p. . turpe autem & planè aethnicum est quod in istorum ecclefiis videmus , &c. b confessio anglica ap . synt. conf. p. , &c. c dr. stillingfleet in pref. to his disc conc . the idol . pract . in the church of rome . d auth. queremoniae europae p. . roma babel quondam , sed nunc es facta bethaven , &c. a hottinger . in dissert . . de necess . reform . p . b curcell . ep. ad adr. pat. inter epist. ecclesiast . p. . a and riv. in animad . in annot. h. grot. p. . b verba anast. episc. theop. probata à conc. nic. . act. . p. . c. d. nemo autem . offendatur in adorationis vocabulo . si quidem & homines , & sanctos angelos adoramus , non autem quod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hoc est , divinum cultum exhibeamus . inquit enim moses , deum tuum adorabis , &c. a rituale rom. de sacr. bapt. p. . inter. abrenuntias satanae ? resp. abrenuntio . int. et omnibus operibus ejus ? resp. abrenuntio . int. et omnibus pompis ejus ? resp. abrenuntio . b rit . rom. ib ! p. . horresce idola , respue simulacra . c s. aug. in psal. . non colimus mala daemonia : angelos quos dicitis , ipsos & nos colimus , virtutes dei magni , & ministeri●… dei magni . a in conc. . nic. act. . p. . sic tharas . omnes qui sacras imagines se venerari confitentur , adorationem autem recusant , a sancto patre [ h. e. anastasio episc. theopol . ] tanquam hypocritae redarguuntur . b hor. serm. l. . sat. . — prudens placavi sanguine divos . c concil : trid. sess. . c. . de missis in hon. sanct. p. . quamvis in hon . & mem . sanctorum nonnullas interdum miss as ecclesia celebrare consueverit , non tamen illis sacrificium offerri decet , sed deo soli qui illos ●…oronavit . a concil . trid. inter conc. max. p. . see the bull of pius the th . p. . b conc. trid. de indice librorum , &c. p. . see conc. aqu. p. . c offic. parv. b. m. p. . ed : antverp . anno , & p. , &c. a ib. p. . b ib. p. , & . c ib. p. . d ib. p. . e ibid. p. . lect. . mens . octob. f brev. rom. in commem . de sanctâ mariâ , p. . g see this form with additions in serm. . de annun . which some ascribe to st. austin . h brev. rom. ad completor . p. . i mr. thornd . epil . part . . p. , . a servir answers to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b consider whether the church of rome doth not make such prayers it self , by making th e foregoing publick forms . a see s. cressy's exomolog . sect. . c. . p. . ed. . this is only that they would intercede for us , &c. in his answer to dr. pierce's serm. c. . of the invoc . of saints , p. . this only accord , to card. perron , prier pour prier . i. e. to desire them to pray for us . a conc. trid. sess. . decr. de invocat . &c. sanct. p. . — bonum — atque utile — ad eorum orationes , opem , auxiliumque consugere . b offic. parv . b. virg. p. . c conc. milev : . c. . de cultu sanctorum , p. . a catech. ex decr. conc. trid. p. . b in the manual of john heigham in our ladies litany for saturday . p. . c ibid. p. . d ibid. prayers for women travelling with child . p. , . e ibid. the lit. for saturday , p. . a j. h. man. pr. at s. omers , an. . p. . b concil . rhem. sub pio quarto , p. . tolet. p. . rothom p. . rhem. sub greg. . p. . burdig . p. . turon . p. . biturg . p. , & p. . aquens p. . mexic . p. . tolos . p. . mechlin . p. . narbon . p. , . c concil . camer . ann. . p. . a see modum recitandi oratdomin . una cum memori●… & veneratione sanctorum ; in horst . parad. animae . sect. . c. p. . &c. b corp. jur. can. l. . c. . p. . c l. . decret . c. . tit. . p. . d catech. ●…x decr. conc. tridpart . . c. . sect. . num . . p. . a brev. rom. in fest. pur. p. in offic. b. m. p. , &c. b offic. b. m. p. . see miss . rom. in oct. ●…mn . sanct. p. . fac nos , quae sumus , &c. c horst . par. an. sect. : p. . e catech. conc. trid. lugd. . p. . d brev. rom. ad complet . p. , . f ibid. p. . g ibid. p. . a concil mediolan . . p. . tolos . c. . de llb. prohib . p. . aven . p. , , comp . with concil . trid. decret . de edit . & usu sacr. libr. p. . b see concil . aqu. p. . of the books permitted in the illyrican tougue . c syn. mexic . p. , , . d fulgentio in the life of father paul the venetian , p. . e syn. mexic . sect. . p. . a manual of j. h. p. . b man. of j. h. p. . c ibid. p. . d horst . paradis . an. sect. . sect. . de b. virg. p. . a concil . camer . p. . et vos reverendissimi domini mei , & patres optimi , und mecum , obsecro , summi patris filiam speciosam , summi filii matrem formosam , summi paracleti sponsam gratiosam , totiusque coelestis ac terrenae ecclefiae reginam , gratiae ac misericordiae matrem , salutare dignemini , dicsntes , ave maria , &c. b abridg. of christ. doctr. in the expos. of the mass. p. . a dr. h. m. of the idol . of the church of rome , p. , . b see the like sense in mr. thornd . epil . part . . p. , . cited here c. . part . . c ass. annot. in gen. . . the hebrew word bara is a word in its proper sense , proper and peculiar to god : and therefore should not be attributed to men , how great soever . yet it is a familiar phrase in the stile of the court to say , such a one was created earl or marquess , or duke , &c. a confess . wirtemb . p. . talis — petitio exigit , ut is qui rogatur , sit ubique praesens , & exaudiat pelitionem . haec autem majestas soli deo competit ; & si tribuitur creaturae , creatura adoratur . b arnob. adv . gent. l. . p. . c holden in div. fid. analy●…i . l . c. . p. . a col. . . b instit. spirit . l. . c. . p. . — visum fuit memoriam instituere sanctorum , non omnium sed quorundam , quos selegi , majore quadam devotione & cultu prosequendos , &c. p. . s. bernardin . alex. ss . sept. dor●…ient . s. placid . &c. c ms. ap : m. r. w. de s. j. d bish. mont. in his treatis . of the invoc . of saints , p. . a bish. mont. ibid. p. , . a abridg. of christ. doctr. in expos. of . command . p. . a horst . parad. animae , de cultu & ven. ss . ang. & praecip . ang. cust. admon . sect. . c. . p. , &c. b instit. spirit . l. . c. . p. . — cum iis quos mihi in patronos & patronas elegi , singularis , quantum quisque posset , totis viribus , cultus & rever . debeatur , &c. horst . parad. 〈◊〉 . sect. . 〈◊〉 . . de patronis è sanctorum num●…ro ●…ligendis & indies peculiari devotione colendis . p. , , &c. d horst . parad. an. sect. . p. . patronum è sanctorum numero , &c. e instit. spir. p. . docebar sanctorum , &c. see cardin. perron . in res . resp. reg. ja●…obi . l. . c. . a horst . parad. p. . sancta t●…in . miserere nobis . sancta maria , ora pro nobis . sancte michael , arch angele , ora. b instit. spir. p. . c ead. ibid. p. . d horst . parad. an. sect. . p. , . e horst . ib. in dedic . ante sect. . p. . fideles olim servi — nunc constituti super omnia bona domini in terrâ viventium . f ibid. p. . — ut invocentur in auxilium , & in necessitate nos protegant . a tibi & filio tuo , worse than ego & rex meus . b iren. l. . adv . haer. cap. . p. . dicant nobis quae sit invisib . nat . &c. sed non babent dicere . a rev. . . & . . b rev. . , . & . , , , . c chap. . . d chap. . . e mal. . . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . f diod. sic. ap . phot. bibl. p. . g see doctiss. d. outram de sacrificiis . l. . c . p. , , &c. h contemplat . divin . & mor. . part . p. . a bellar. l. . c. . de beat. sanct. endeavors to prove , non solum ab angelis sed etiam à spiritibus beatorum hominum regi & gubernari fideles viventes . b t. g. on rev. . , . p. . lond. . a t. g. p. . b see iren. l. . c. . p. . — animae abibunt in invisibilem locum , — & ibi usque ad resurrectionem commorabuntur , &c. c isa. . . a lxx . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b dion . hali-carnass . l. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c ay●… . rivallii hist. jur. civ . . p. . christian●… similem huic religionem servant , nam deam immortalem colunt , & virtute praeditos miraculisque fulgentes magnâ pompâ & inquisitione , primo in in divos reserunt , deindè venerantur , post templa eis construunt ; ut de divis joanne , petro , catharinâ , nicolao , magdalenâ , & aliis videmus . a ep. ec. cles . smyrn . ap . eus. eccles. hist. l. . c. . p. , . a — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. . d. b see ludov. viv. praes . in comm. suos in civ . dei. p. , &c. c s. aug. de civ . dei. l. . c. . de miraculis quae , ut mundus in christum crederet , facta sunt , &c. p. . d s. aug. de civ . dei. l. . c. . p. . testantur hoc martyrum loca , & basilicae apostolorum , quae in illâ vastatione urbis ad se confugientes suos [ h. e. christianos ] alienosque [ h. e. paganos ] receperunt . e grotius in append. ad comment . de antichristo . p. , . a see lud. viv. praes . in com. suos . de getis seu gothis . p. , . b see adam bremensis de de superstit . sueon . among the elogia of grotius before hist. goth. p. . c — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a doctiss. sheringh . de angl. gent. orig. discept . p. . b crantz . not. hist. l. . c. . c fel. fab. hist. suev . l. . c. . p. . a baron . annal. tom . a. c. . sect. , . p. . b lit. de sanct. ang. op . horstii paradis . an. sect. . p. : s. michael princeps coelestis exercitus . — a becan . compend . man. controv. l. . c . de invoc . sanct. p. . quotidiè sructum inde experimur , nam multi , invocatione bujus vel illius sancti , consequuntur , sanitatem corporis , alii donum castitatis , &c. b canis . man. cathol . p. . ad beat. mich. archang . precatio . coelestis militiae princeps — veni in adjutorium populo dei , & militantis ecclesiae contra impios procura victoriam , nosque simul odversus diabolicos insultus in vit â & morte patrocinio tuo desende & sub . leva . b lib. fest. in die annunc . b. m. p. . a baron . annal. tom. . p. . ed. colon. b — ut ipsa eadem , qualiacunque sint , dilecto filio suo porrigat , ut impartitâ benedictione sanctificet ; illamque pro munere gratiam poscat ; ut ipse sit nobis portio in terrâ viventium . c bar. annal. tom. . p. . a baron . annal. tom. . p. . b baron . annal. tom. . p. . a baron . annal. tom. . p. . b baron . annal. tom. p. . a magnâ fiduciâ accendentes [ for accedentes , sure by mistake of the press . ] b baron . annal. tom. . p. . c non nisi te curante . d baron . annal. tom. . p. , . jure ergo nos iisdem , quos nacti sumus ducem & comites , omnia ista pro gratiarum actione rependimus , imperdinusque nosipsos simul . e baron . annal. tom. . p. , f id. tom. . p. . a id. tom. . p. . b id. tom. . p. . aug. wichmans in sab. marian. c. . p. . a lips. virg. hallens . c. . p. . op. ed. in vo . vesal . a. . b id. ibid. p. . c id. ibid. p. , . d quis non tum laudes gratesque sacrae virgine corde , ore , plausu , dixit ? e id. ibid. p. . a lips. op. p. . b — hanc pennam tibi nunc , diva , merito , consecravit lipsius . nam numine isthaec inchoata sunt tuo , et numine isthaec absoluta sunt tuo . c d. b. in his second vol. of travels , p. . a martin . de roa de die natali sacro & prof. p. — acclamato tuteiari aliquo gentis divo , ut b. jacobo apud hisparo●… , praelia committuntur , &c. b bullar . de can. b. rosae . p. , &c. c bullar . ib. ut venerationis fiat accessio , &c. d bullar . de can. s. thomae de villanovâ , p. . e d. br. trau . . part . p. . d. o. m. intem●…ratae virgini mariae , sancto lamberto , eccles●…ae & patri●… divis tutelaribus , max ▪ henr. &c. po●…bat . a. . f see peter della valle's travel . p. . a see garnerius's hymne de sainte genevi●…sve patrone de paris . par. a. . and before it , by morrell . these verses . tu flos siderei chori , — francorum imperii pii regum tibi cura assidua , & franci populi probi . and in it these p. . — etoile singuliere sous qui la nef de la ville premiere vogue sans crainte . — b ann. . see bishop sparrow's collect . p. , . c syn. mexic . stat. par . . c. . p. . * aug. wich . in epist. ad omnes marianos cultores . — urbs antverpia , cui tu praesides , ut sacra marchionissa , seu medio regina foro — d ren. rap. ecl. sacr. in virg. assump . eclo . . p. , , . ed. lug. bat. an. . e postquam illam coeli tempestatumque potentem esse de-dit . — f — virgo — respice nos facilis . — interea largo proventu plenior annus contingat , veniatque suo seges ampla colono . da glebâ agricolis faelices ●…ere campos . pascua da greglbus , pingues da matribus agnos . et qua tuta dabas pastoribus otia , serva . g chytr . monumenta neopol . p. . tibi regina coeli , &c. h chytr . mon. roman ▪ p. . quod ●…uit idolum , nunc templum est virginis , auctor est pius ●…pse pater : daemones aufugite . i id. ibid. p. . martyrii , virgo , gestans , martina , coronam ; ejecto hinc martis nomine , templa tenet . k gildas poëta brit. ap . pont. virunnium . l. . c. . p. . diva potens nemorum terror sylvestribus apris , — &c. l grot. ad johan . reigersb . ex vero navigantem . epigram . l. . p. . — at pelago venus orta , metu desistite , dixit , non erit in nostris tam grave crimen aquis . — m see j. h. manual . prayers in travel . p. , . n hence they called her 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quasi partûs arbitra . * see t. bartholin . de puerperio vet . p. . o see pignor. de servis . p. , . p grut. inscr. p. . q id. ib. p. . cast. & poll. diis magnis sulpitia , &c. ob fil . saluti restitutum . a catech. ex decr. conc. trid. p. : quòd si reges , per quos deus mundum gubernat , tanto honore afficiuntur : angelicis spiritibus , quos deus ministros suos esse voluit , &c. b hor. par. an. sect. . hymn : commun . in festo cujuscunque sancti . p. , . gaude felix n — inter coeli senatores jam locatus , fac exores christum mundi judicem : ut quam sontes , beu , timemus , te patrono declinemus , iram dei vindicem . culpas lava , carnem froena , &c. c j. h. manual , p. . d third part of the hom. against idol . p. , , . a t. g. cath. no idol . pax . . ch . . p. , , , , . a rom. . . b james . . a gen. . . b dan. . . and . . c alex. de hales , summ . part . . quaest . . memb . . art. . a xaver . hist. christi pers. p. . b de dieu in animadvers . in excerpta ex hist. christi . p. . * yet herein t. g. contradicts gabriel biel , who saith in this matter , nou omnia possumus omnes ; meaning that every saint can't give that aid which some other can . g. biel in ca●… . missae , lect. . n. a novat . de trin. c. . p. . ad calc . op . tertull. b s. cyril . alex. tom. . par . . p. , . a horst . par. an. sect. . p. . sanctos , maximè patronos , invoca , &c. b l'office de la vierge , &c. ou sont adjoutees — allegresses de la vierge , &c. a paris , . p. , , &c. * in lib. festiviali . in annunc . b. m. p. . a ex. gr . in miss . rom. in f●…st . praes . b. m. p. . deus , qui b. mariam — hodierno die in templo praesentari voluisti ; praesta , quaesumus , ut ejus intercessione in templo gloriae tuae praesentari mereamur per dominum nostrum — a isa. . . b xaver . evangel . pers. p. . c brev. rom. ave regina — salve radix sancta . ad completor . p. . d baron . annal. tom . p. . e bar. tom. . p. . wichm . sab. mar. p. . ecquod istud tabe●…naculum ( levit. . ) nise illa de quâ psaltes ( psal. . ) sanctificavit tab●…rnaculum su●…m altissimus . f xiv. hist. christi . par . . p. , . a missal . rom. par. . p. . * in hymno , av●… maris stella . — coeli porta . b j. heigham in his manual . p. . c horst . par. animae . in dedic . ante sect. . p. . — dilectae . aeterni patris filiae . d missal . rom. in miss . sacratiss . rosarii b. v. m. p. . ave regina coelorum , mater regis angelorum , &c. e horst . par : an. p. . angelorum dominae ; hominum tutrici ; coeli terraeque reginae . f r. rapin. eclog. sacr. ecl. . p. , . postquam illam coeli potestatumque potentem esse dedit , summoque deus praefecit olympo . g concil . mexic . romae confirmat . an. . l. . tit. . sect. . p. . quid omnes speciali devotione gloriosissimam virginem mariam universalem patronam & advocatam prosequi debemus , &c. h genebrard . a c. . cum jam esset statutum ut clerici sept. hor as ' canon . quotidiè dicerent ; totidem jussit in concilio apud claromontem a. c. . recitare quotidie in laudem virginis , & instituit ipsius officium in sabbathis . see hotting . hist. eccl. c. . vol. . p. . i horst . par. an. sect. . p. . diem sabbathi deiparae virginis honori peculiariter dicavit ecclesia . &c. * in sabb. marian. c. . p. , . * wichm . ibid. p , . * id. ibid. c. . p. . k offic. b. m. p. , . s. m. ora , &c. l p. canis . man. cath. antv. a. . p. . aug. wich . in sabb. mar. c. . p. . si maria non oraret , mundus totus non diu staret . * bulla sext. . m octav. rom. edv. antv. a. . infra octav. fest. b. m. v. p. . — tu es spes unica peccatorum , &c. a horst . par. an. sect. . p. . non mireris si matrem vitae , &c. b maria mater gratiae , &c. & horâ mortis suscipe . c horst . ibid. hoc potiss . nomine cult . v. deip. commend . quod clientibus suis in mortis agone fidelis semper patron●… & mater adsistat . &c. d labbe in carm. in praef. ante op. mar. mercat p. . ad virg. orat. hic te ad sider●… spiritus sequatur , in terris fuit usque qui secutus , mariam ducem & auspicem mariam . e psaltet of our lady published with license , in f●…ench at paris , by c. chappelet , a. . * father paul in his hist. of the conc. of trent . l. . a. . p. . a lips. virg. hallens . p. . op. b see proceed . ag . traytors . pag. ult . crossing himself , he said , in nom . patr. &c , then maria mater gratiae , &c. then in manus tuas , &c. then per crucis hoc signum fugiat procul omne malignum . then he concludes with , maria mater gratiae , &c. c confes. saxon , in corp . confes. p. . de invoc . hom , pior. &c. d see garnerius in his pref. to m. mercator . p. , . orat. ad virg. nec tu non mihi sae . pius vocata , ardores faebris inter aestuosae , &c. e spalatens . de rep. eccl. l. . c. , p . carolus prosecto m●…diolani ambrosii nomen ferme extinxit . f essais de morale vol. . des d●…faults des gens de bien . sect. . p. . il y á g●…ns de bien qui examinant la vie de s. thomas de cantorbie , &c dieu jugera de ce dif●…erent plûtost par la pureté du coëur du saint , & par la mechan . ceté de son adversaire , que par la fond de la ●…se . a see a. rivet . l. . apol. pro s. v. m. & car. drelinc●…rtium de honore b. v. m. debito . b see he●…r . apol. for herod . l. . c. . p. . * greg. . l. . ep. . c see consid. touching the true way to suppress popery ; in the hist. acc . of the reform . p. , , &c. d father paul in hist. of counc . of tr. p. , . l. . ed. ult . a spalat : de repub. eccl. l. . c. . p. . b see gerson . de exam. doct. par . . cons. . a horst . par. an. sect. . p. . commend . & ubl. ad sanctos tres magos & reges , quorum sacra corpora religiosè asservat & colit agr. colonia . o sancti magi , &c. b baron . mart. rom. . jan. p. . c bar. ibid. p. . d see syn. nicen. . act. . p. , &c. e cat. ex decr. conc. trid. ad parochos . in . praec . p. . f baron . ann. a. c. . n. . p. . tom. . g t. w. ( under the borrowed name of fran. covent ) in his enchiridion of faith , at the end of his catechetical dialogue . a lips. virg. hall. c. . p. . b lips. ibid. c. . p. . c id. ibid. c. . p . d see aug. wichmans sab. mar. p. . a mat. paris in a. c. . a spalat . de republ. ecclesiast . l. . c. . p. . notes for div a -e a see the front. of de sales of the love of god , &c. b aventin . annal . bojor . l. . p. . see epist. . alexandri p. . ad soldanum iconii baptizari cuplentem . ap . concil . max. tom. . p. . b. — licet nihil invenire possimus , quod expressam babeat unitatis , quae in deo est , & summae trinitatis imaginem , &c. c mr. baxter in his commonwealth , c. . p. . a conc. trid. de invocat . vener , &c. p. . quod si aliquando historias , &c. b catech. ex decr. conc. trident . p. . a see t. g. catholicks no idolaters . c. . p. , &c. a tertull. de idol . sect. . p. . at 〈◊〉 ●…cent tab●… & januae 〈◊〉 strae , &c. a i. v. c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . stilling●…leeton . p. , . b cat. ex decr . couc . trid. p. . cited here p. . a diod. sic. ap . photii biblioth . p. . b syn. nic. . act. . p. , . a theodoro patr. hierosol . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 h. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c t. g. catholicks no idolaters . c. . p. . b s. aug. de fide & symb. c. . a spal . de republicâ eccles. vol. . l. . c. . p. . b sir hen. wottons letters . p. . a see pign . de magn. deûm . matr. &c. p. . b s. athan. vol. . op p. : c plin. nat. hist. l. . c. . p. , . d excessere o●…nes adytis arisque relictis , dii quibus imperium hoc steterat — e tit. liv. hist. l. . see herald . annot. ad arnob. l. . p. . a me p●…er hebraeus — cedere sede jubet — aris ergo dehinc tacitus discedito nostris . b see arnob. l. . p. , . c camill. leonardus de lapid . l. . c. . p. . see bened. cruc . sal. aqu. alt. portat . &c. notes for div a -e a concil . . const. in can. . ap . conc. quinisext p. . vol. . c. max. see consult . cass. de imag. &c. p. and taras . in syn. nic. p. . act. . c. d. * r. o mans mortality . amstera . . p. , . without doubt christ must be in the most excellent , glorious , and heavenly part of [ heaven ] which is the sum. — fitly may that be called the right-hand of god , by which through christ in him we live , & move , and have our being , &c. a greg. mag. . ep. . b s. greg. m. ep. . a conc. trid. symb. p . b decret . conc. trid. de invoc . &c. p. . * cent. : of scand . min. sect. . p. . c concil . mechlin . p. . turon . p. , mexic . p. . tolos . p. . aven . p. . mechl . p. . narbon . p. . d conc. milev . . p. . e lucas tudensis l . cont . albig . c. . & cornel. curtius de clavis domin . c. . p. . a conc. trid. decret . de invoc . &c. p. . b concil . camer . de imag. c. . p. . c lact. l. . div instit. c. . p. . see arnob. l. . p. . non ( inquiunt ) materias aeris , auri , &c. per se deos esse , &c. sed cos in bis colimus , &c. d h. t. abridg. of christian doctr. in expos . of the . command . p. , . a curtius de clavis domin . c. . p. , . b de lingend . vol. . conc. de doior . christi . p. . — flagitemus auxilium è coelo , & sanctam crucem adoremus . o crux ave. c in brev. rominfra hebd . quart. quadr. p. . and in the litany of the cross. p. , &c. ed. paris . . * dr. bilson of the full redempt . of mankind by christs death , pag. . the church of rome hath wedded a great part of her devotion to the cross of christ ; but under that name she adoreth the matter and form of the cross. c miss . rom. par. . d conc. trid. decr. de invoc . &c. p. . & leont . in syn. nic. . p. . b. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . e leont . in syn. nic. . act. . p. , . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — f id. ibid. p. . * conc. nic. . act. . p. , . there the image says to the king , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. a — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. c see l●… le blanc's theses . tb. de ec. ro. doct. circa cult . imag. p. . d tom. . in . thom. disp . . sect. . e corn. curtius de clovis domin . c. . p. , , . ed. antv. . f here he cites d. thom. . q. . a. , &c. g here he says vide concil . trid. sess. . a concil . trid. sess. . p. . — imag. quas osculamur , & coram quibus caput aperimus , & procumbimus , &c. b concil . camer . de imag. c. . p. . c just weights and measures . c. . p. . d tac. hist. l. . c. . nec . deerat otho protendens manus , adorare v●…lgum , jacere oscula , &c. and elsewhere of nero. — coetum — man●… veneratus ●…st . a rit . rom. p. , . concil . bitur . tit. , cant. . p. . b missal . rom. in sanc. sabb. p. , &c. a miss . rom. feria . in p . rasc p. . b po●…t . rom. lug. . part . . p. . in bened. imag. sanct. — & presta ut quicunque coram illâ ipsum gloriosissimum apostolum tuum , vel martyrem , vel confessorem , &c. c pontif. fol. , . tum pontifex , flexis , ante crucem , genibus , tpsam devotè adrat , &c. d po●…tif . part . . fol. . ord. ad recip . process . imperat. — crux . legati , quod debetur ei latria , ●…ritá dextris . a thomas . de vita , bibliothecâ , & musaeo laur. pignorii . p. . b bell. de eccl. triumph . l. . c. . see spal . de rep. eccl. l. . c. . p. , &c. where he resuteth the arg. of bell. for the rel. worship of images . a first precepte . chap. . a tho. à kempis oper. p. . b id. oper. p. . oratio ut liberetur mens à corporali imagine . c s. aug. in psal. . neminem [ puto ] o●…are vel adorare sic intuentem simulacra , qui non assiciatur , &c. d s. aug. in psal . hoc facit & quodammodò extorquet illa figura membrorum , &c. e bellar. de imag. c. . f zonar . in can. conc. . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — g mr. thornd . just weights . c. . p. . * see the enumer . of miracles done at images , in order to the promoting of their worship in syn. nicen. . act. . p. , &c. p. . sancta synodus dixit , gloria deo , qui etiam per sacras imagines miracula perficit . a see steph. baluz . not. ad salviani . . p. . and sulp. sever. in v. d. mart. — quia esset haec gallorum rusticis consuetudo , simulachra daemonum , candido tecta velamine , miserâ per agros suos circumserre dementiâ . b rit . rom. p. . dom. jesu — praesta ut ho●… signo sanctae crucis ▪ omnis discedat saevitia tempestatum . c pontif. rom. fol. . — ipsorum — reliquias bumiliter amplectentibus ; contra diabolum & angelos ejus ; contra fulmina , fulgura & tempestates , &c. d d. heyl. in hist. of ref. in a. . r. e. . p. . see the consecrat . of st. dominick's beads in arch. caraccius de rosar . p. . c. . a lassels's voyage to italy , p. . a catech. ex decr. conc. trident . p. . immo vero cum ad imaginem sancti alicujus quis dominicam orationem pronuntiat , &c. b catech. ibid. quo loco illud maximè cavendum est omnibus , nè quod dei proprium est , cuiquam praeterea tribuant , &c. c lib. fest. in s. nicolai narrat . . see in wichmans sabb. mar. c. . p. , of a schedule which a young man had sealed to the devil , dropped into his hands , whilst he was kneeling at the image of the virgin of loretto . d krantzii saxon. i. . c. . p. . b f. c. curtius de clav. domin . c. . p. . c curt. ibid. p. , . d lips. virg. hall. c. . cui tit. sanguinis fudor in statuâ . p. . a baron . annal. tom. . a. . n. . p. . ad marg . cultus ss . imaginum miraculo probatus . see spal . de rep. eccl. l. . c. . p. . b porphyr . in fragm . de styge . p. . b arnob. adv . gent. l. . p. . notes for div a -e a mr. thorndike in his epil . par . . c. . p. . b trial of regicides , p. . h. peters to one who prayed for the king , old gentleman , your idol will not stand long . c mr. case in serm. of the covenant , p. , . the dagon of the bish. service-book brake its neck b●…fore this ark of the cov●…t . d molin . defens . verit. p. . b●…za vocat , albam vestem baali●… , sacerdotum insigne , &c. a anna trapnel in her lega . cies for saints , lond. . p. , . b molin . in specim . cont . durell . p. . l●…dus — ad idol●…m ( h e. altare ) a se erectum , primus in angliâ procubuit ad modum adorantis , &c. c const. & can. a. . can. . d lips. ode ad divam hallensem . op. p. . sacram pronus ad aram flecto corpus — miss●…l . rom. in ord. miss . p. . sacerdos paratus cum irgreditur altare , factâ illi debitâ reverentiâ , &c. a this author is mention'd by dr. h. hammond of idol . p. . of vol. . b miss . rom. in can. missae . p. . sacerdos prolatis verbis consecr . statim hostiam consecratam genuflexus adorat . a daill . apol. p. . b larrog . hi. stoire de l'euch . . partie . c. . p. , . c chrys. hom. . in c. . e●… . ad eph. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — a see injunct . of q. e. . & can. . in can. & const. an. . b white 's cent . of scand . min. p. . c melinaeus de mon. tempor . pont. rom. p. , . hodiè salutantur syllabae . d athen. l. . c. . p. . & casaub. not. p. , . a missale pro sacerdot . itinerant . in ang. a. . in missâ de nom . jesu . p. , . deus — concede — ut omnes qut hoc nomen jesu devotè venerantur in terris , &c. b see horst . par . an. sect. . p. . c. . de cultu & honore ss . nom . jesu & in man. pietat . p. . litaniae de nom . jesu . c al. gazaeus de offic. b. m. p. . aug. wichmans in sabbatismo mariano . c. . p. , . a see in this arg. dr. twysses letter in mr. mede's works . p. and mr. mede's answer , p. , . b foxe's great mystery , p. . is not that of god , which comes out of god ? is not that of his being the soul , &c. c a. trapnells legacy for saints , p. . d paradis . dialogue betwixt faith and reason , c. . p. , , , &c. e ibid. p. , . a paradis . dial . p. . b ibid. c. . p. , , &c. c iren. l. . c. p. , . d is. causaub . in ephemeridibus suis , ann. : cal. novembr . ap . molin . def . verit. p. . notes for div a -e a nicol. drabitius in epit. revelat. divinar . p. . — ab isto maligno malorum omnlum authore satanâ . a s. joh. . . b joh. . . c tertull. advers . prax. sect. . pag. , . d tim. . . a see maimo . de fund . leg. c. . sect . , . p. , , , &c. b tertull. cont . prax , p. . c ranters epistles , p. , , . a let this difficult argument , about the shechinah , be read with caution ; even where i have not interspersed words of caution . a hab. . , . a orac. chald. ap . psellum , p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b just. martyr in dial. cum tryph. p. . c orig. in st. hieron . ep. ad avitum . arrap . s. chrys. in joh. . & athanas. vol. . p. , . see novat . de trin. c. . & . d eisterf . contr . crell . l. . sect. . c. . p. , &c. a see euseb. in dem. & petav. de trin. p. . b s. aug. epist. . c. . invisibilis est enim natura dei , non tantum pater , sed & ipsa trinitas , ●…nus deus . c s. aust. l. . de trin. c. , , , . see g. nyss. lib. . advers . eunom . & cat. conc . trident. p. . d mr. thornd . epilog . l. . c. . p. , . e ign. ep. interpol . ad philad . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , instead of , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in hebr. . . a tertull. l. . contr . marc. profitemur christum semper egisse in dei patris nomine . & advers . prax. sect. . p. . filius-visios est semper , & filius conversatus est semper , & filius operatus est semper , ex auctoritate patris & voluntate . b socr. hist. eccl. l. . c. . p. , . c see the mistake of socr. and soz. conc . the symb. of marc. areth. in notis h. valesii . p. . d tert. advers . prax. sect. . p. . a euseb. de praep. evang. l. . c. . p. . de secundo principio ex philone . b philo ( in lib. de profugis . p. . b. c. ) says the high-priest is not a man , but gods logos clothed with the four elements , &c. c philo de mundi opificio , p. . c. d id. p. . c. e see origen in com. in s. johan . p. . f j. mart. apol. . p. . apol. . p. . a gen. . , , b tert. adv . prax. sect. . p. . c hil. pict . de trin. l. . p. . d theoph. antioch . ad autol. p. , . * maimon . more neb. part. . c. . p. . per lahat ibi intelligitur angelus qui est instar flammae . a anselmi elucidar . c. . p. . gladius fuit igneus murus , &c. b gen. . . c see hom. l . . v. . of . jove lightning on the right-hand in token of his favour . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a gen. . . b novat . de trin. cap. . p. . * deut. . . * gen. . , &c. a socrat. l. . c. . p. . & hilar. pict . de syn. p. . & athan. de syn. p. . b euseb. de dem. evang. l. . c. . p. , . a id. ibid. p. . b sozom. eccl. hist. l. . c. . p. , . c euseb. in eccles . hist. l. . c. . p. . and just. mart. in dial. cum tryph. p. : c. d gen. . . e socrat. l. . c. . p. . f hil. de tr. l. . p. , , , , and euseb. in l. . c. . dem. evang p. . g cyr. alex. contra julian . l. . p. . h de trin. p i gen. . . k k gen. . . l l ver. . m see grot. on gen. . . silob 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. n h●…l . l. . de trin. p . & novat . c. . p. . o see j. mart. dial. cum tryph. p. . and isa. . . for this , there , is the reading of the lxx . follow'd by the fathers . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . see cy●… . alex. thesaur . tom . p . p tert. de carne christi . sect . . p. . dictus est quidem magni co●…silii angeius , idest nuncius ; officii , non naturae vocabulo . q see philo de somn. &c. and j. mart. dial . cum tryph. p. . and his apol. . p. . r j. mart. dial . p. . s id. ib. p. . s cor. . . a euseb in eccles . hist. l. . c. . p. . and in demonstr . evang. l. . c. . p. . &c. b hil. de trin. l. . p. , . c j. mart. dial . cum trypb . p. , , . d symb. syrm. ap . hil. de syn. p. & socr. eccl. hist. l. . c. . p. . see novat . de trin. c. . p. . and gen. . , . the angel said , i am the god of bethel , &c. a auth. lib. de mundo inter op . aristot. p. . b see reyn. de idol . eccl. rom. l. . c. . p. , , &c. a s. chrys. tom. . op. in diem nat . christi . p. . a see just. martyr in apol , . p. . b id. ibid. p. . and in his dial. cumtryph . p. . b. c euseb. eccl. hist. l. . c. . p. , . d s. hil. de trin. p. , . e s. ambros. tom. . op. p. . see athan. contra arianos . orat. . p. . a. b. * philo de vit â mosis , p. , . f exod. . , . g exod. . . a euseb. de demonstr . evang. l. . c. . p. . b see exod. . , , , , , , , , . compar'd with chap. . v. , , . c eccl. . . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — d lactant. de verâ sap. l. . p. . e exod. . , , , . f psal. . . a tertull. adv●…rs . judaeos , p. . b b gal. . . c in quarto , lond. . d cro. . . a act. . . b curcell . institut . p. , . c tentam. theol. p. . a just. mart. in apol. . p. , . b tertul. de resurrect . carn . sect. . p. . j●…sus — adam novissimus , etsi sermo primarius . and advers . prax. p. . — constat eum semper visum ab initio , qui visus fuerat in fine , &c. c le blanc in thesi an christus sit med . sec. nat . hum . & div . sect . . p. . a hil. pict . de trin. l. . p. b s. athan. op . vol. . p. . and p. . b. c praef. ante leges aler. di ad calcem eccl. hist. haymonis . d aug. epist. . e numb . , . a exod. . . b exod. . c exod. . , . a exod. . , , , . comp . with exod . . , . b heb. , , , , , , , . c ezek. . . d see ezek. c. . & . . e lactant. de vera sap . l. . p. . aureum caput bovis figuratum . f s. hieron . commen . in . hos. g ezek. . . see r. sal. franco's truth springing out of the earth , p. . ez●…k . . . a lud. de dieu . in epist. ad d. guil. eos . well , inter op. doctis . medi , p. . c pfal . . . rom. . . d jer. . . a s. chrys. in hom. de nativ . vol. . op . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * maim . in more nev. par . . c . p. . a i sam. . . b moncaeus in aar . purg . ap . crit. maj . p. . c plutarc . de iside , p. . c. * philo de profugis . p. . b. c — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 [ i. e. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d maimon . de fund leg sect. . p. . & sect. . p. . a greg. nyssen . de vitâ moysis , ●…om . . op. p. . b in . praec●…pt , p. . minimè — sequitar , &c. c ezek. . , . &c. . . &c. . , . d see cuperi harpocr . p. , , . and porphyry , who calls the sun , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . e psal. . , . f psal. . . g psal. . . & . . isa. . . h author excerpt . de trad. hebr. in . parali●… . inter op . s. hieron . tom. . p. . a pet. . . b psal. . . & . . c numb . . , . sam. . . & . . sam. . . psal. . , . psal. . , . d clem. alex : strom. l. . p. . e volkel . de verâ relig. l. . c. . de idol . p. . f bell. d●… imag. l. . c. . a see t. g. cath. no idol . p. , . b psal. . . c psal. . . d kircher in carm. ded . ars magna lucis & umbrae — cadit ad genua orientis solis . * dr. vane in his lost sheep return'd home c. . p. . f tertul. contr . marc. l. . c. . p. . sic & cher. & ser. aurea in arcâ figuratum exemplum , certè simplex ornamentum , accommodata suggestui , longè diversas habendo causas ab idoiolatriae conditione , ob quam similitudo prohibetur , &c. g t. g. cath. 〈◊〉 idol . p. ●… . a in tom. . op. s. hieron . p. , . b socr. eccl. hift. p. . l. . c. . c see epist. s. hieron . ad ripar . presbyt . op . tom. . p. . d see bishop whites orthod . faith. p. . capit. caroli magni . c. . p. . dr. still . against t. g. p. , , &c. e in vot●… pro pace , p. . a act. . , t●… . b exod. . . a philo jud. de prosugis , p. b. b dr. jackson in vol. . p. . c h. grotius in exod. . . and munster in v. . p. . crit. maj. d exod. . , . a breast-plate , an ephod , a robe , a broider'd coat , a miter — a girdle , v. . a plate of gold . e hosea . . f lxx . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. sine urim . g doctiss. d. spenc. in dissert . de urim & thummim , c. . sect . . p. , , . h s. hier. tom. . ad dam. p. . seraphim . sic●…t in interpret . nom . hebr. invenimus , ardor aut incendium — interpretantur . tom. . p. . seraphim interpretantur 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 [ not the lxx , who in isa. . . use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] quod nos ●…e poss●… , incendentes seu comburent●…s . i in judic . c. . v. . p. . ap . c. m. k s. hi●…ron . ad marcell . tom. . op . p. , . l exod. . . with cherubims shall it be made . vers. arab. with pictures . a s. hieron in isa. . p. . tom. . op . in cherubim ostendit●…r dominus ; ex seraphim ex parte ostenditur , ex parte celatur . idem . tom. . op . ad damasum papam . p. . super cherubim sedere deum , scriptum est — super seraphim verò sedere deum , nulla script . commemorat , & ne ipsa quidem seraphim circa deum stantia , excepto present . loco ( viz. isa. . ) in ss . — invenimus . b exod. . , , , , . c levit. . . a numb . ●… , . b deut. . . c herod . l. . p. . ●…ic . de nat. deor. l. . d isa. . . e abarb. com. in leg. fol. . ap . g. moebium de aeneo serpente . exerc. . c. . sect . . f gages survey of the west-indics , p. . g herodot . in e●…ter . p. . h see pignor. de m●…â isiacâ . p. . a max. tyr. dissert . . p. . b eras. stel. ad init. l. . de antiq. boruss . & samog . c see tertullde paescrip . her. c. . p. . d kircher in oedip . synt . . p. , . c. . e wisd. . ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . f see porphyr . de abstin . l. . p. . giving the like reason for the worship of the eg●…ptian hawk . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. g diod. sic. l. . c. . p. . see max. tyr. diss . . p. . h voss. de idol . l. . c. . p. . i pignor. de mensâ isiaca . p. . k herod . l. . p. . a. l euseb. de praep : l. . c. . p. . a kirch . oed. tom. p. , . b macrob. l. . sat. c. . p. . c see cartari's imag. p. . d kirch . sphinx . mystagoga . p. . e eus. de praep . evang. l. . c. . de phaen. theol. p. , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. f elucid . pseudo - anselmi . l. . c. . p , . disc. quamdiu suer●…nt in paradiso ? mag. septem [ al. sex ] horas . a mr. mede's works , p. . b oëdip . egypt . synt. . c. . c maimon . more nevochim . par . . c. . p. . d id. ibid. par . . c. . p. . e isa , . , . a tertull. de praescr . haer. p. . c. — iftum suisse serpentem cui eva , ut filio dei , crediderat . b id. adv . val. c. . p. . illa [ i. e. columba ] a primordio , divinae pacis praeco . i lle [ i. e. serpens ] a primordio , divine imaginis praedo . c maim . more nev. par . . c. . p. . d s. hier. in isa. c. . tom. . p. . e see doctiss. d. spenceri diss. de ur . & thum. p. , , . f levit. . . a i sam. . , . the lord said , [ by the ephod ] he will descend , — they will deliver ye up . * see , notwithstanding dr. spencer . dissert . de ur . & thum. p. , &c. b exod. . , , , , , . c numb . . ar. mont. vers . fac tibi saraph . a numb . . . lxx. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ar. mont. super vexillum . b joh. . . c d. jackson , vol. p. , , &c. * marius ap . moëb . de aen . serp. ex. , e. . sect. . — atque ità lignum ●…oc crucis gessisset figuram , sicuti christi 〈◊〉 typum gessit hic s●…rpens . d wisd. . . see chald. par. in num. . . he shall recover if he direct his heart to the word of the lord. targ. hieros . — if he lift his face to his father in the heavens . a diod. sic. l. . bibl. c. . p. . b ael . var. hist. l. . c. . c see lxx , & scalig. de emend . temp. l. . p. . * consider exod. . . a grot. in heb. . . p. . in m. c. b joseph . . . c king. . . d chron. . . e exod. . . f numb . . . g heb. . , . h judg. . . i sam. . . a diod. sic. l. . c. . p. . * psal. . , . * psal. . . * psal. . . b ecclus. . . sec. vers. lxx . c. . . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c scal. de emend . temp. p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . h. e. tanquam urim & thummim . c joh. . . d deut. . . e munster in exod. . de urim & thummim quales fuerint res , nemini mortalium constat . a josh. . , , . b see hen. valesii not . in euseb . eccl. hist. l. . c. . p. . d usher in annal . vet . testam . p. . ed. paris . a see bisterfeld . contr . crell . l. . sect. . c. . p. . b psal. . . c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . d kings . , , , , , , , , . e king. . , . f chron. . . g chron. . . h matt. . . i king. . . k king. . . l king. . , , , . m s. hieron . tom. . oper . fol. . d. n isai. . , , , . o john . . p see ezek. . . c. . . q cippi hibraici . p. . r pseudo . anselmi elucidar . c. . p. . a see othon . lex . rabbin . p. , . b dan. . , to . c s. hier. in dan. p. . also euseb. in l. . c. . eccl. hist. p. . a see jos. scal. de emend . temp. l. . p. . and . mach. . . * see light. harm . . . b see greg. nyss. contra a. pollin . op . tom. . p. . & procl . ad armen . p. , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c act. . . d hebr. . . e clom . alex. strom . . p. . f g●…g . nyssen . tom. . d●… vitâ moysis , p. . a comp. psal. . . with chron , . : b castal . in psal. . . hujus loci sententiam non intelligo . c hilar. picta . in psal. . . e. . p. . d sam : . e heb. . . a joh. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same in sense and almost in sound with shachan he dwelt , whence shechinah . b comp. josh. . . and matt. . . c joh. . , . d see daill . de dion . ar. p. . e matt. . . mark. . . pet. . , . . f clem. alex. strom . . p. . c. g psal. . . and psal. . . seek the lord and his strength . al. his ark , or face . * heb. . . a see cyr. alex. sc●…l . de incarn . ap . concil . ephes. prim . c. . p. . b see hil. pictav . de trin. l. . p. , , . c hil. pi●… . p. . see concil . max. tom. . p. . c. d. tom. ●… p. . e. d joh. . ●… . a vide concil . max. tom. . p. . e. p. . a. tom. . . b. . a. s. athan. v. . p. . d. p. . d. p . c. p. . d. p. . b. p. . a. b isa. c. . v. , . zeph. . . zach. . . c see athan. vol. . p. . e. d prod. of eg. p. , . e s. hieron . tom. . fol. . a. f athan. vol. . p. . c. and p. . a. g s. hieron . in isa. p. . h isa. . . i see hilar. pict . l. . de trin. p. . a. b. c. k hebr. . . l revel . . . c. . . m act. . . compared with sam. . , . and psal. . . a see greg. nyssen . de vitâ moysis . tom. . p. . b rom. . . c joh. . . d s hier. in ezek. op. tom. . p. . e seventy in ezek. . . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — * s. joh. . , . f sam. . , . g acts . . h conc. const : . oec . ap . cap. caroli magni . p. . i rev. . . k ver. . l ver. . m v. , . see c. . a virg. aen . . illi ad surgentem conversi lumina solem. — * lucian in necyom . p. . * see cuperi harpocrat . p. . * s. aug. cont . faustum . l. . c. . ad solis gyrum vestra oratio circumvolvitur . b lxx . in psal. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — c see damase . de fide orth. l. . c. . p. , . * p. sterry in serm. on rev. . . p. . a ap. cloppenburg . gangren . anab. p. , . a see vorst . de de●… . disp. . p. . & not. ad disp. . p. , &c. & elucid . pseudo-ans . c. . p . d. ubi habitat deus ? m. quamvis ubique potentialiter , tamen in intellectuaii coelo substantialiter : b see mr. mede's works , p. . a cath. no idol . p. . b gen. . . c pag . in expos. of . command . d catech. ad parochos , in . praec . p. . a lond. . b t. g. cath. no idol . p. . c miss . rom. par. . p. . a crell . eth. p. . de idol . minor est rerum auditarum aut lectarum , quam visarum vis . b deut. . . a cat. cont . trid. in . al. . praec . p. . b s. hieron . in ezek. c. . p. . nos autem — unam v●…neramur imaginem . quae est imago invisibilis & omnipotentis dei. a heb. . , . b cap. c. magni . p. . c pet. cat. p. . orais . devote en oyant la messe . — ô corps sacre de jesus , — jevous adore avec tant de reverence qu'il est possible — &c. d les. litan . de s. sacr. p. . panis omnipotentis verbi verbo caro factus miserere nobis . e bp. ush . ser. p. , . f agobar . in libr. contra eor . superstit . qui pict . & imagin . sanctorum adorationis obsequium deferendum putarunt . p. . g baluz . not . ad agobard . p. , . a see de statu eccl. grae. hod . p. , , . b ogilby in affrica . p. a see codign . de rebus abassin . l. . c. . de sacram. abass . p. , &c. b regin . l. . de eccl. disc. const. . p. . observandum est ut mensa christi , id est , altare ubi corpus domini cum consecratur , &c. cum omni veneratione [ not cultu ] honoretur , &c. nibilque saper eo ponatur nisi capsae cum sanctorum reliquiis , & quatuor evangelia . baluz . not . ad l●…c . regin . p. . videtur ergo prohibere ne imagines super altare ponantur in quo corpus dominicum consecratur . notes for div a -e a plutarch . de procreat . anim. p. . ed , franc. b see plutare . de placit . philos. l. . c. . p. . & plotin ▪ l. . enn. . & chalcid . in tim. p. . juxta platone●… bona sua dei , tanquam patris liberalitate , collata sunt : mala vero matris sylvae viti●… cohaeserunt . a plat. tim. p. . min. in octav. platoni , in timaeo , deus est ipso nomine mundi parens . b plato in timaeo . p. . c chald. or. p. . under the seven planets is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . psell. summar . dogm . chald. p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . d see timaeum de an. mundi , p. . ed. serr . e see jamblic . de vit â pythag. c. . p. , . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . there stop , if you will read that place right , & then for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not with arcerius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a r. tar. ap . capell . in orat : de nom. jebad calc . crit. p. . a mercer in gen. . . b see bochart . in can. l. . c. . p. . c arr. in epict. l. . c. . p. . a plotin . ennead , . l. . c. . a see m. thorndike's epil . part . p. . b see arrian : in epict. l. . c. . p. . c pletho in orac . mag. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . d c. c. s. tract . de sp. sancto . p. . sp. s. — tota collectio spirituum sanctorum . a plato in tim●…o de an. mundi . p . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b plato in timaeo . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. c plato in timaeo . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. d de an. mundi . p. . e plato in timaeo . p. . f orac. mag. zor . p. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a plotin . enn. . l. . c. . b plato in timaeo . p. . & de animâ mundi . p. . c in chap. . of shech . a de animâ mundi p. . see plut. de an. procr . p. . b plato in timaeo . p. . & p. . c hierocles de providentiâ . p. . d grotius in sent. philos. de fato . p. . e hierocl . de prov. p. . a plut. de procr . an. p. . b theodo●… . l. : de cur. graec. affect . c see hierocli●… l. de provid . p. . d plato in timaeo de an. mundi , p. ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * plato in timaeo , p. . of the demiourgus , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . e plut. de procr . an. p. . b. * plato in tim : de an. mundi , p. . f heb. . . wisd. . . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . g mac. . . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . lxx . the saying of the hebrew mother of the seven sons to the youngest of them ready to suffer by antiochus . a cited by fuller in misc. . . c. . * exod. . , to v. . b plut. de iside . p. , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * plutarch . de animae procr . p. . f. c h●…sych . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . d plut. de plac : phil. c. . p. sext. empir . cont . math. p. . a see jambl. de vitâ pythag. c. . p. . macr. de somn. scip. l. . c. . b 〈◊〉 in hier. a●…r . carm. * see hier. in carm. pyth. p. . & sext. empir . adv . mathem . c. . * see not. in hier. carm. pyth. p. . * hier. in carm. pyth. p. , . a see strab. l. . geograp . p. . athen. delpn . . . p. . l. . c. . p. . jambl. de vitâ pythag. c. . p. , . sext. empir . adv . mathem . p. . b laert. in proaem . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. c ch . p. . a plat●… in timaeo , p. . b gen. . . * gen. . 〈◊〉 . c s. aug. retract . l. . c. . p. . ed. par. . iturus , autem , quam rediturus , dixissem securiùs , propter eos qui putant animos humanos pro meritis peccatorum suorum de coelo lapsos sive dejectos , in corpora ista detrudi . a sir t. roe's voyage , p. . b tavernier's voy. part . . p. . * see mr. thorndike's weights and meas . chap. . p. . a plato in timaeo . p. . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — b gabr. sion . de urb. & mor. orient . c. . p. , . hanc ult . partic . directè contra christianos protulit , &c. a see t. s. of the relig. of the turks , p. . b mr. vernon in his letter from smyrna , in oldenburg's transact . n. . p. . c gabr. sion . ubi supra . d busbequius , epist. . p. . a patricides ap . hott . hist. orient . p. . b tavern . rel. of the seragl . c. . p. . c benj. itiner . p. . — religiosè colentes . — d euthym. zigab . p. . * zigab . ibid.