Rich. Baxter's review of the state of Christian's infants whether they should be entered in covenant with God by baptism ... or whether Christ, the Saviour of the world, hath shut all mankind out of his visible kingdom ... 'till they come of age? : occasioned by the importunity of Mr. E. Hutchinson (and of Mr. Danvers and Mr. Tombes) who called him to this review in order to his retractation [sic] ... Review of the state of Christian's infants Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1676 Approx. 142 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 37 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2006-02 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A27008 Wing B1372 ESTC R18045 12395436 ocm 12395436 61144 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A27008) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 61144) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 269:2) Rich. Baxter's review of the state of Christian's infants whether they should be entered in covenant with God by baptism ... or whether Christ, the Saviour of the world, hath shut all mankind out of his visible kingdom ... 'till they come of age? : occasioned by the importunity of Mr. E. Hutchinson (and of Mr. Danvers and Mr. Tombes) who called him to this review in order to his retractation [sic] ... Review of the state of Christian's infants Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. [8], 64 p. Printed for Nevil Simons ..., London : 1676. First ed. Cf. Wing. Reproduction of original in Bodleian Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. 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Infant baptism. 2005-07 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-08 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-10 Elspeth Healey Sampled and proofread 2005-10 Elspeth Healey Text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-01 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Rich. BAXTER'S REVIEW OF THE STATE OF Christian's Infants . Whether they should be entered in COVENANT With God by BAPTISM , and be Visible Members of His CHVRCH , and have any Covenant-Right to Pardon and Salvation ? Or whether CHRIST , the Saviour of the World , hath shut all Mankind out of his Visible Kingdom , and Covenant-Rights and Hopes , 'till they come to Age ? And whether he did so from the beginning of the world , or after his Incarnation ? Occasioned by the Importunity of Mr. E. Hutchinson , ( and of Mr. Danvers , and Mr. Tombes , ) who called him to this REVIEW in order to his RETRACTATION . An Impartial Reading is humbly requested , of those Dissenters who would not be found Despisers of holy Truth , nor such as judge before they hear . London , Printed for Nevil Simons at the Princes Arms in Pauls Churchyard , 1676. READER , I Once more stew the World , that is is in the power of other men , if God permit them , to hinder us from greater service to the Church , by making things far less in themselves , to become accidentally at that time more necessary ? By which kind of Impediments in Contentious times , Satan frustrateth the better desires and designs of many of the Servants of Christ , who would fain be better employed ; yea , and useth herein the service of such men , as in other respects are none of his Servants . And thus , though Scriptures be our General Rule , the Providence of God , and the great Ends of all our life , are the Determiners of the Circumstances of our Duties . The Cause of this REVIEW is a Letter of one Mr. E. Hutchinson , sent me , very large in considerable Oratory , to let me know his Contempt of my last ( and former ) Book of Baptism , and to humble me for the great sin of abusing the world with such frivolous writings , which seem to do something , but prove nothing , and leave Mr. Danvers , &c. unanswered ; so that it is an Answer that he would have : And he vehemently urgeth me to Repentance and Retraction of what I have written for Infants Church-membership , Covenant and Baptism ; as did Mr. Tombes more than once before him . Should I Print his Letter without his consent , perhaps he might take it for an injury ; and if he would have it done , it 's like he will do it himself . But because it refereth to a Printed Paper of Mr. Danvers , against me , called his Third Reply , which I never saw till his Letter informed me of it , I thought that it was more than himself whom he importuned me to satisfie . I have told him here truly , how little the meer difference about the outward Baptism of Infants doth abate my esteem and love of any Godly Peaceable men : Two sorts of Persons called Anabaptists I can live in as friendly concord with , as with most I hold Communion with : First , those that deny not the Covenant-Rights , and Church-Relation of the Infants of Believers , confessing them to be Holy ; but only think that their Baptism , being but the solemnization of their foregoing Covenant , and the publick Investiture of them in their Relation , may , as the Coronation of an Infant King , be deferred till they come to some understanding ; of which minde were Tertullian and Nazianzene . Secondly , those that being in doubt only of the Sufficiency or Lawfulness of Infant-Baptism , do receive a second or a third Administration ( as some Marryed by Justices lately , were marryed again by Ministers ; and as Mr. Humphrey pleads for a second Ordination , especially if Hypothetically done ) to satisfie their doubting Consciences , and then live in peace , and orderly Communion afterwards with other Christians , as knowing that in Christ Jesus neither Circumcision availeth , nor Uncircumsion , but a new Creature . I say none of these shall be more willing of loving Communion with others , than I shall be with them . But 1. If men will deny and scorn our Infant-Right in the Covenant of Grace , and in Christ , Pardon and Salvation ; and Visible Church-Relation , and will so far deny the Kingdom and Grace of Christ , as to maintain that he excludeth all mankind from any Visible Right , or Hope of Salvation till Adult , and hath given such Right no more to Christian 's Children than to Heathens ! And if they will make this Opinion the measure of their Communion , and will divide the Church , and Unchristen , or Unchurch all that are not as unthankful and injurious to Christ , and to the Holy Seed as themselves , it is not I that separate from these men , but they from me , and all sober Christians . And I will here add but these two or three Notes to the Reader ; 1. If he will peruse two short Disputations which I have lately published of ORIGINAL SIN , ( the Primary and Secondary ) he will see it fully proved , that both Naturally , and by Supernatural Revelation God hath declared such an Interest of Parents and Children in each other , as is much of the Reason of all that I here plead for : And he that will accurately observe the whole current of the Scripture herein , shall find this Conjunct-Interest asserted from end to end . 2. I am past doubt that it is a principal design of Satan to mortifie our Christendom it self , by keeping Parents from that intelligent and serious Covenanting with God , in their solemn dedication of their Children to him , which the greatness of the work and case requireth ; and to turn our very Christening into a Ceremony , or lifeless Formality : And it is not the least part of my Non-conformity , that I dare not deliberately profess my Assent and Consent , that no Parent shall be suffered in the Church to enter his own Child into the Covenant of God , nor to speak one Covenanting , Promising , Undertaking , nor Dedicating word ; ( nor must be urged to be so much as present ) But that Godfathers and Godmothers ; who never give us any cause to believe that one of many thousands of them take the Child for their own , nor ever purpose to Educate him , or do what there they Vow and Covenant to do , must be the only Covenanting Undertakers ; and so that so much notorious false Vowing to God , or Perfidiousness , must defile our Baptism : And now come these Anabaptists , and instead of calling the Parents to Seriousness , and Holy Fidelity in so great a work , they tell them that it is none of their Duty at all . 3. And how light soever some make of Unity , I know that it 's even Essential to the Church ; As the Union of the Stones and Timber is to the House , and of King and Subjects to the Kingdom ; and of the several parts , to a Clock or Watch : For the Form is Relative . And do you think then that they befriend Christ or his Church , who turn the Sacrament of our Union into the occasion of our great Division ? yea , and Unchristen and Unchurch all the Christian World in Infancy ; yea , and a thousand parts to one of the Christian Church of the Adult , because they are not Re-baptised at Age. Passion , and Prejudice , and Partiality ( when men have espoused the Interest of a Cause as the best and holyest in their eyes ) may make men swallow such things as these , and think that they serve God in reviling all that are against them . Were we agreed against Infants Covenant-Right , when should we ever be agreed at what Age it is that they are to be received ? and when a Childs Profession were Valid ? But he that thinketh that 1. All the Christian World will ever Unite in the Renouncing of all Infants Covenant-Rights and Hopes . 2. Or that without Unity , ( in the Essentials ) or without Love and Peace the Church , of Christ is in a prosperous State , doth not judge as I do upon the most serious thoughts that I am able to exercise , and as I doubt not but I shall judge to the last breath , which is not like to be far off . TO Mr. E. HVTCHINSON . SIR , WHen I read you general Accusation of my Firey discouraging of Reprovers , &c. I began to bethink me who they were in all my life time that had to my face reproved me , and been discouraged by any unthankful passionate returns of mine ; and not remembring any one in my life , ( unless you will call my Contradicting men in disputation and Altercation in case of differences of Judgment by that name ) I did read on , in expectation of fuller information , and I perceived that it was not any verbal rejecting any reproof of my present Monitors , that you meant , but my published Writings against those called Anabaptists . I have long had far lowder calls than yours to Review my Life and Writings , and to judge of them as impartially as I can . Upon the Review I am Conscious , 1. That I never meddled at first with Mr. Tombes , till he unavoidably constrained me , by sending those whom he had prevailed with to me , to tell me , that if I would not answer him , they must lay their change so far on my refusal to satisfie them . We lived to gether till then , without any meddling with the difference by me . 2. I find that when he had ( without my consent ) published these Papers which I privately sent him , with his Answer , I gave not a word of Reply to them , till Mr. Danvers made it seem necessary to me , though it be above 20 years since they were written . Surely my silence was no furious Contradiction . 3. I find that when Mr. Tombes published them so long ago , and they have been in your own hands in Mr. Tombes his Book , neither you nor others till now that I know of , shewed me any such fury in them . And those that I have spoke with say , that there is no such thing , but that his Reply is passionate , ( which I leave to others judgment that yet may read them in his Book together . ) 4. I find that in 1659. when I endeavoured to perswade Mr. Lambe and Mr. Allen to Christian Concord , that I did not strive against their Anabaptistry , but only to satisfie them , that holding that difference , they yet ought to satisfie themselves , in that which they took to be their Duty , and to hold loving Communion with the Churches and Christians of the other mind . And when they had renounced their Separation , it was not I but their own Light , Experience and Consideration ( by what other helps I know not ) that made them Renounce their Anabaptistry . 5. When before that , there was a Treaty in London for the Reconciling of the Presbyterians & Iudependents , I did first at home to the Ministers of Worcestershire , mantain by a set Disputation , that it was our Duty to seek Peace and Communion with the Anabaptists ; and after sent up the Terms of that desired Concord to London , to Mr. Allen , who at some Meetings for that purpose , told me the business went hopefully on , till the Confusions in 1659. disturbed and overthrew all . 6. I have above 20 years in Print and Pulpit frequently told the Churches , that they are greatly beholden to Gods Providence in permitting the Anabaptists to call us so lowd to the serious confideration of of our Baptism ; and that if those that were Baptized in Infancy be not brought to as serious understanding , and resolved a renewing of that Covenant , as if they had never been Baptised before , yea and pass not out of the state of Infant Church-membership into that of the Adult , by a solemn transltion in owning of their Covenant , these Church Corruptions will be continued which are the Scandal and Temptation of the Anabaptists . And to that end I wrote a Treatise of Confirmation . 7. I have Printed in this last Book ( recited by Mr. Barret in the end of his Queres ) such an Offer of Brotherly Concord with the Anabaptists , ( supposing our continued difference in that point ) even the very words of such a Profession on which both parties may with mutual forbearance live in brotherly Love and Communion , as never any man did to me accuse either of Rigor , Unlawfulness , or Insufficiency to that end . And if you resolve that you will have no Communion with any in the world , but those that are of your Opinion against Infant-Baptism , your Communion will be narrower than mine , and such talk as this of yours is never like to draw me to your mind . 8. I have many years insisted more upon the terms ( and improvement ) of our Baptismal Covenant , as containing that very Touch-stone , or state of Evidence , by which both our sincere Grace , and our right to Church-Communion must be tryed , than any man that I know of ; of which my Family Book is a full proof . 9. To the Reconciling of men herein , I have oft shewed , that If our Childrens part in the Covenant of Grace upon their Parents dedication of them to God , ●nd so their Church-membership , were but yielded , the rest ( whether they should actually be Baptized with Water ) would be much less cause of our distance and alienation , than on both sides it is usually judged . Yea , if the Anabaptists would but say , [ I Dedicate this Child to God , as far as he hath given me power , and heartily desire that God may be his Father , Christ his Saviour ; and the Holy Ghost his Sanctifier : ] And did ever any of you prove this to be a sin ? And we are ready on our part to profess that [ Infant-Baptism will save none at age that consent not to the same holy Covenant . ] 10. I have oft told the world that though the Ancient Churches denyed not their Childrens part in the Covenant of Grace , nor their right to Pardon and Salvation , and Infaut Church membership by that Covenant , yet the Time when Children themselves should be solemnly Baptized , was left in the Churches for above 200 years to every ones free choice ; some ( and the most Christians ) usually Baptizing them quickly , and others thinking as Tertullian , that it would bind them faster if they stayed somewhat longer ; or , as Nazianzene thought , till they were three or four years old : even as one that hath right to a Crown in his Infancy , may have his Coronation performed either then , or afterward . 11. I have oft told the world that I would have this liberty and moderation again revived , and that I would have no Anabaptist persecuted or excommunicated for that his Opinion . 12. I never persecuted any of them , nor perswaded any to do it ; nor never endeavoured to hurt them , nor denyed them any good that I could do them ; ( though I told you truly that even they of Mr. T 's . Church that had seemed my old Friends , sought my life or ruine , by way-saying a man that told them he carryed Letters of mine , violently taking them from him and carrying them up to London to the Council , to Sir H. V. &c. ) This is the account that my Reviewing Conscience giveth me of my dealing with the Anabaptists , with whom to this day I still plead for Love and peaceable Communion upon terms of mutual forbearance : And whether it be holy Patience and Humility that takes this for Fire and Fury , and cannot bear it , consider . But yet Fury and Folly you copiously exclaim against , and call me to Repent : I thank you unfeignedly for that honest wholsome word [ Repent ] whether well or ill applyed . But your many scornes at my Repentings scarce well agree with the invitation . Were I like to have Life and Leisure for such a work , I would resolve to Review all my Writings just in the method that Austin did , and to tell the Readers what I dislike in them ; which having no reason to expect , I have so dealt already with those that most needed it , and corrected others in the later Impressions . If you need no Repentance , and have written as much as I , and that without any fault , you have been happier than I. And yet I intend not to give over Writing , Preaching , Praying , praising God , or Conference with men , because I cannot do any of them innocently , in a manner that needed no Repentance . But upon the full perusal of your Letter , I must say , I never had a more Wordy , Windy , Empty Invitation to Repentance , that I remember in my life . I looked still when the fault was told me , and some words at least named that were guilty of the folly or firyness mentioned ; or some of my particular sins proved , that I might be convinced : I looked to find some one Argument of my Books confuted and proved vain , or fallacious . But it renewed in me that grief and pity , for the strange diseasedness of such Dissenters , ( which Mr. Danvers had before caused ) to find such abundance of Rhetorical Invectives , without one word of Proof : As if you had prevaricated , and had a design to have kept me from Repentance , by telling me I had no particulars to Repent of that you could shew . What do all your Generals of [ no answer ] and tergiversation , and abundance the like signifie , to any man of common sense , unless this be the meaning of them , [ It is Mr. Danvers his Opinion and mine that you are foolish , firey , injurious , frivolous , &c. Therefore you must Repent of this , though we say nothing that should convince a reasonable man. ] But , I must retract what I have written against Anabaptists ; for you invite me to it by a torrent of General Accusations , and letting me know that Mr. D. and you do think me Hetorodox . ] And just so doth Mr. Pen and the Quakers do also : And so do the Papists , and with as great confidence and Oratory perhaps as yours : And so do the accusers of the Non-conformists in many Volumes : and so do many other Parties : And must I be therefore of all their minds ? Or why more of yours than of theirs , if I have nothing from you but confident Gnerals , which they can say as well as you ? Yea thus do the Infidels themselves now use me , and must I therefore yield ? But I have written Fierily against Mr. Danvers ! 1. Did I begin with Mr. D. or he with me ? 2. Have I said any thing offensive to him , besides the detecting of his marvellous audacity in strange heaps of untruths in matters of Fact ? and his lamentable injury thereby to the Church of Christ ? Sir , I know you not , and should I tell you what a Spirit in your self , your copious outcryes , and extream tenderness of our dissent and contradiction of you , shews , and how unlike to the voice of a sheep of Christ it is to cry so loud , as if the knife were at your throat , when we do but tell the Church of your Errours and Injuries to the Truth , upon the urgency of your restless importunity : Should I tell you what strange Partiality you shew in finding Meekness , Truth , and Reason in Mr. Danvers his Books , and Folly , Fire , and No-answer in mine , I could not expect that you should ever the more be convinced , or Repent , but rather take that also for Fiery , as taking me for an uncapable Monitor . But I desire you only to ask the Opinion of the judicious and impartial herein ; for Repentance to your self should be no odious thing . And whereas you tell me over and over what all wise men now think and say of me , and of my Writings , am not I an unhappy man that never met with one of those wise men , but your self and such professed opposites ( Anabaptists , Quakers , Papists , or such like . ) But what if I be foolish , and you be wise ? Cannot you suffer fools gladly , seeing you your selves are wise ? And is your impatient and general Invectives , and your self-justifying , an infallible proof of your great Wisdome ? Brother , upon the deepest search that I am able to make in above 20 years Consideration , I am satisfied that you heinously wrong the Mercy of God , and the Church , and true Believers , and their Seed , by denying them that part in Gods Covenant and Mercy , which I have proved he hath stated on them in his Word : I am fully satisfied that God never had Church-Laws on earth , whether in innocency , or since the Fall , which extended not the priviledge of a Covenant and Church-state to the Infants of the Church , if they had such ( on that supposition ; ) and that the Church from the dayes of Adam till now hath had Infants members by Gods appointment ; and that Christ so found them , and so continued them ; and that it was then a thing that none did controvert : I am satisfied fully , that all that are Discipled are by command to be Baptized ; and that Nations should be Discipled , and the Kingdoms of the world made the Kingdoms of Christ ; and Christ would have gathered to his Church the whole Jerusalem , as the Hen gathereth her Chickens , and none were broken off but for unbelief , and therefore the Children of believing Jews were not broken off ; and that we are graffed into the same Olive : I am satisfied that they that so hardly digested the forbearance of Circumcision , would never have silently past over the Vnchurching of all the Infants , without one word of exception ; nor Christ have so far countenanced the Excepters , as to be angry with those that would have forbid Children comeing to him , because of such is the Kingdom of Heaven , nor the Scripture have talk'd so much of Baptizing Housholds . I am not hardened enough to reject so plain a Text as , [ The unbelieving Husband is sanctified , &c. else were your Children unclean , but now they are holy . ] Nor in that one text to expound Sanctifying for Lawful Marriage , and Holyness for [ Legitimation ] when the words are never so taken else in the Bible , and ma-many hundred times in another sense : nor to say , that all Pagans Children are holy if they be not Bastards . I am satisfied that man must not teach God how to speak , but carefully enquire what he hath spoken ; And if but one Text of Scripture acquaint us , directly or consequentially of his mind , we must be faithful in observing it : I believe that these are your thoughts as well as mine , and that you verily think that you hold close to the Scripture , and that I depart from it : But as I am as willing to understand it as you are , and at as hard a rate of cost or labour , so I well know that one mistake once deeply received , doth let in abundance more , and fights against all the light that would detect and shame it : And he that once accounteth Falshood to be Truth , will account the Defenders of Truth to be its Enemies . Otherwise how could you and such others bring your Consciences to wrest and wrangle against such abundance of plain Scripture Texts ? Were it but this one , what could be plainer ? What is wresting Scripture if this be not , to force a sense of Holyness and Sanctification upon one Text , which is never found else in any Text , and the contary , or different sense neer six hundred times ; is this impartial dealing with Gods word ? And do you think that Paul mentioneth that as a great and comfortable priviledge of Believers , which belongs to Heathens equally with them ? Why do you not your selves still use that language then , and say , that the Children of Infidels are holy , when too many will scarce allow the title to any Adult Christians that are not of your Sect , much less to the Children of Christians , though dedicated by Baptism to God ? But being called by you to a Review , I am again remembred , that our Saviour himself was a Church member in his Infancy , even the chiefest , that is , the Head ; Mr. Tombes confesseth it : Let not your opinions interest draw you to deny it , nor to call my assertion [ rotten dictating . ] If you should , I would ask of you , at what age Christ began to be Christ , and the Churches Head , as we ask the Socinians , At what age he began to be God ? And if an Infant was capable of being the Head , King , Priest , and Prophet Relatively , though yet he had never Ruled , Sacrificed , or Taught , then there is nothing in the Infant Age , which maketh it uncapable of being Members , Subjects , and Disciples of Christ : And it is like that Irenaeus was not deceived , who saith that he Sanctified the state of Infancy by being an Infant ; and we have reason to judge , that he did thereby give us notice that the Infant Age is not unacceptable to him , nor uncapable of Church Relation . Truly Sir , the serious thought of Christs Infant Relation is a very great confirmation of me against those that exclude all mankind in their Infancy from the Covenant and Church ; even as Christs ordinary Communion in the Synagogues and Temple , is an insuperable argument with me against unlawful Separations . And God himself calling Infants his Servants , who do no actual service , Levit. 25. 41 , 42. yea and calling them Disciples , Acts 15. 10. prevaileth more with me , than the words of any one that shall say , They are uncapable of being Servants , or Disciples . If the Infant-age did not render them uncapable of being Subjects of Christs Kingdom , and Members of his Church ( Universal and Particular ) before Christs Incarnation , it maketh them not since uncapable of the like or same Relations . And why should I suspect such incapacity ? are not Infants members of other Societies ? are they not members of Families ? and may not a Family be Sanctified by dedication to God ? are they not members of all the Kingdoms in the world ? and is it not the common light of Nature , which teacheth all men so to esteem them ? are not Infants the Kings Subjects ? and why may they not as well be Christs Subjects as the Kings ? Have they not Right of Inheritance and Honour ; even of Crowns , Lordships , and Lands ? Do any Nations under Heaven level all Children , as if the Parents communicated neither good or evil to them ? What reason then to suppose that Christ obliterateth even Natures Laws ? And if you deny not Original Sin , why should you think that God is so unproportionably prone to punish and damn more than to pardon and save ; as that while all Infants are made sinful and miserable by their Parents , yet not one in the world shall have so much as a part in Christs meritorious Righteousness , and the free grace and pardon of his Covenant , upon the Parents dedication of him to God , and entering him by consent into his Covenant ? Doth sin abound so much more than Grace , as that Condemnation is passed upon all Infants for and by their Parents sin , and the free Covenant gift doth not pardon any sin to any one Infant in the world upon any condition which the Parent can perform ( nor any other . ) You never yet by all your words ( for all words are not Light and Proof ) did convince me that it was no Benefit to Infants before Christs Incarnation to be Covenant-members of his Church ( particular and Universal , ) Nor that Christ came to deprive them all of that benefit : Mr. Tombes his pretenses that it is a Benefit to Christians to have all their Infants put or kept out of the Church State and Mercies , is so absurd , against Nature , that I am asham'd to say any more against it : If it be our Benefit to have no Covenant-gift of Christ , Pardon and Life to our Children , may you not next say , It is our Benefit to have them damn'd ? And if it were so , Nature teacheth us to be loath to receive our Benefits by such means ; as one would be loath that a Physitian should cure his Sickness by a draught of the heart blood of all his Children . Sir , I could the easilyer bear with your delay of external Baptism ; if you did not deny all Infants their part in the Covenant of Life . But when you dare not only do that , but reproach our assertion of Gods Covenant-Grace to them , as [ Absurd and Heretical ] it is no Fieryness to say , that I will not follow you . Where there is no Covenant or Promise there is no Hope , which we can call Divine ; and if we have no Hope of the Pardon or Salvation of our Children upon any Promise of God , it is no Promise of Mans that can keep us from Despair . We may not then say as David , I shall go to it ] any farther than to the Grave . Nay do you not do worse than deprive us of our hopes , even lay such grounds as destroy and exclude them , by a sentence of damnation ? For God [ addeth to the Church such as shall be saved . ] And if Infants be not added to the Church , are they not excluded from Salvation ? For Christ washeth and sanctifieth his Church , & he is the Saviour of his Body only ; And if they are not of his Church or Body , he washeth them not , nor is their Saviour effectively . The same Text that saith , He that believeth shall be saved , saith , He that believeth not shall be damned . ] And He that believeth not is condemned already . ] If therefore you allow them no participation in their Parents Faith , but require personal Belief of them , as necessary to their Salvation , according to the Promise , you must also require the same of them to save them from Damnation , by the Threatning . Did you but leave Christians no more hope than you do Pagans and Turks of their Childrens Pardon and Salvation , I would not be ambitious of the Joy of your opinion ; much less if you positively condemn them . And what do you less , if finding them condemned by the violated Covenant of Innocency , you totally exclude them from the Remedying , Pardoning , and Saving Covenant , and from Christs Body which he doth save . If you say that they may be of his invisible Church , which is the saved Body ; I answer , 1. What they may be , tells us not what they are . If they be not so much as visible Members , who can say that they are invisible ones ? 2. They are by Nature visible Members of the Kingdom of Satan , and Children of wrath , and visibly under the Laws Condemnation : Therefore 'till we can prove them visibly by grace translated out of this state of nature , their visible Condemnation cannot be denyed . And what a jumble make you , if you make a great part of Mankind to be at once condemned visible members of the Kingdom of the Devil , and invisible saved members of Christ ? Men may be visibly Christians , ( Hypocrites ) and yet invisibly wicked ; but to be visibly condemned members of the Kingdome of Darkness , and yet invisible members of Christ is strange to me ; especially considering that Hypocrites are visibly what they are not really , and invisibly , because they falsely profess what they have not : But a condemned Infant doth not deceive men by dissembling , but we actually know that as a child of Adam , he is a child of sin and death : It is truly so . Therefore we must conclude that as Gods Word is true , he continueth so , till he be delivered by Grace . And the Covenant of Grace is the Conveyance of , and title to our gracious priviledges , as the threatning is of wrath . Shall not all that are judged , be judged by Gods Law ? ( the Law which they were under ? ) And what Law shall Infants then be judged by ? If they are under no Covenant of Promise that giveth them title to life , how can they have title by it , or be judged by it ? Are they Justified or not Justified ? If not Justified , they are condemned certainly ; and shall not be glorified ; for it is the Justified that are glorified , Rom. 8. 30. But if they are Justified , either it is by some Justifying Promise and Covenant , or without : If without , 1. Do you not give hope also to all Heathens and Wicked men , that though they are condemned by the Law of Innocency , and not justified by any Covenant of Grace , yet they may be justified without ? 2. And by what means is it ? by any or none ? If by any , by what ? If by none , how know you it ? But if it be by any Covenant-Grant that they are justified , it must be by that of Grace which I am pleading for or none . For we will not now receive another Gospel . To talk therefore of meer Election , is nothing to any of this that I have said . Election Justifieth not , nor dissolveth the condemning Sentence of the Law. God judgeth not men meerly on the grounds of his unreveled Election , but by his Word , which is the Rule . And were it otherwise if unrevealed , none can prove it , and therefore must not affirm it : And were it reveled that God will save some that he promiseth not to save , nor giveth them any antecedent right to it ; yet 1. No man could know by this , whether any one in England or Europe , or in the World in his age shall so be saved : nor whether it be many or few , or more than a dozen in the world . 2. And no one can know who any of these be ? and so can have no notice of comfort for any of his own . 3. Nor that Christians Infants shall be saved any more than the Heathens . These things , Sir , are not to be submitted to by all Christians , for fear lest you else revile them , or lest Mr. T. sayes , Their blood be on their own heads . Austin is called Durus Pater Infantum , for too sharp a censure on the unbaptized ; ( though many mistake him . ) But we should be harder , did we leave all visibly condemned without a pardoning word , or any visible remedy and hope . And truly me thinks you too much honour the Kingdome of the Devil , if you make it visibly contain all the Seed of the Woman , even of the Faithful , till they come to age . It is too great , I will not feign it to be greater . Were all the Circumcised Israelites , and all the holy seed till Christ , at once both in the Church , and in Satans Kingdom ? If not , sure it is not so now . Sure I am that the Scripture tells us of a larger Church , and a better Covenant , and Promises , and greater Salvation under the Gospel ; and do you bring it down to this , to give us all up to the Devils visible Kingdom , without any visible Remedy , till we come to age ? And he is scarce so like to prove a member of Christ at age , who is trained up in the Kingdom of the Devil till then , as he is that is educated in the Houshold of God. There is more of Gods blessing to be expected in his own Family than in the Devils . Either it is a Mercy or no Mercy to be in Christs Family or Church ? if none , why do you value it ? if it be , why should we think that the Saviour of the world procureth it to no Infants ? nay that he came to leave them out . Would you not take it for a Mercy if you believed that God in Scripture gave it , to all the Seed of the Faithful dedicated to him ? I think you would . For my part I believe that the Seed of the Righteous is blessed , Psal . 37. 26. and that the Children of Satan , and the condemned unjustified seed are not blessed : That blessed are they whose sins and iniquities are forgiven and covered , and to whom the Lord imputeth not sin , and that this blessing cometh even on the uncircumcised ; But not on them who are unpardoned , and condemned already . I hear many sad Mothers lamenting their dead Children , for fear lest they are damned : And though I never was a Father , I can perceive what the concerns and bowels of Parents are . But what would they do , if they were taught to believe , that no Infant ever in the world , had any justifying , pardoning Promise , nor visible Remedy , but all till age are under condemnation , by the undissolved Obligation of the Law. The Antinomians of late years have attempted to perswade men , that secret Election justifieth from Eternity , and dissolveth the Laws Obligation , ( before it did oblige , even to non-existent Subjects : ) But few believe them , the Errour being sufficiently laid open . And yet what other than this feigned Antinomian Justification do the Anabaptists allow to any Infants in the world ? But the Obligation of a Law or Covenant to punishment , must according to Gods established order , be dissolved by a Law or Covenant , even by the Pardoning Law of Grace . No doubt but all elect persons , before Regeneration are in the visible Kingdom of the Devil , and heirs of hell , and under the condemnation of the Law , as undissolved , and they not pardoned : and is this the case of the best of Infants ? Had Infants Church-membership been a meer Jewish Ceremony , or a meer piece of the Mosaical Policie , giving no right to any spiritual benefits , nor extended to any other but the Jews , we should have judged of it as of the rest : But I dare say that I have given full proof of the contrary in both my Books , not here to be recited ; and have produced more than [ rotten dictates ] that from Adams dayes Infants were esteemed as under the Blessing or the Curse , as belonging to their Parents , & interested in their actions & conditions . Besides that any heathen might have brought in his children as Proselites into Church-membership with the Jews ; whereas now you allow not so much to any Christians . And it was before Circumcision was instituted , that Marriage was regulated by God , that there might be [ a Seed of God ] Mal. 2. 15. ] And I will not be so audocious , as to expound that title , of all the Devils Children that be not Bastards . But still you say , There is no Scripture , President , or Precept for Infants Baptism . ] Answer , 1. Abuse not your selves and others : we are first to agree Whether Infants may be Church members , and under the Covenant of Grace with their Parents ? And then we shall next consider , at what age , and in what manner they should be solemnly invested . Confound not differing Questions : the first must be first resolved . 2. There is no Scripture president for Baptizing any Kings ; must none therefore be Baptized ? 3. Scripture tells us not all that was then done , but all that must be done . 4. When Baptism was first instituted and practised , the Parents must first be Converted and Baptized . 5. Yet over and over the Baptizing of Housholds is recorded . 6. Infants Church-membership was a thing that they were before in profession of , and no sort that ever I read of questioned it : Therefore what need Christ institute it anew , any more than to new make the Ten Commandments ? 7. If it had ever been his meaning to dispossess them all , he would have told us so in some word of Scripture , or some mention sure had been made of it . 8. But certainly he told them that he would have gathered Jerusalems Children to him , which is the Nation that was before Gods Church . 9. And he took Children in his arms and blessed them , and was angry with those that kept them from him , and said , Of such is the Kingdom of God. 10. And how can we obey Mark 9. 36 , 37. and receive Children in Christs name , and as belonging to Christ , if none do visibly belong to him ? 2. But I answer fully , There is a full Command for Infant Baptism Mat. 28. 19. Go ye Disciple me all Nations , Baptizing them . Where note , 1. That it is not the effect that is made their duty , but their endeavour ; else the Apostles had sinned when the hearers believed not , and because all Nations were not Discipled . Note that to be Disciples and to be Christians , Acts 11. are made all one ; and to be Discipled and to be Christened . 3. Note that it is not here and there one , but Nations , that they must endeavour to Disciple : And as the Jews are called a holy Nation , so it is said , I will give thee the Heathen for thine Inheritance , Psal . 2. and Isa . 55. 8. Mal. 1. 10 , 11 , &c. the Conversion of the Nations and Heathens is promised : and the Word and our Experience have both said , The Kingdoms of the World are become the Kingdoms of the Lord , and of his Christ . But Kingdoms and Nations contain Infants ; and he Discipleth not a Nation that Discipleth no Infants in the Nation . The Apostles were commanded to Discple whole Nations : the Infants are parts of whole Nations : therefore the Apostles were bound to endeavour to Disciple Infants . Object . It is only the capable parts : but Infants and Ideots are not capable parts . Answ . I have before [ and else-where fully ] proved Infants capable parts , as Christ was of being Head , and as Infants are of Societies , and of a part in Covenants with men : and Ideots having not the use of reason from the birth , are in the same case with Infants ; and the Distracted , after at age , are nothing to our case , but are capable of being Distracted members ; and Distraction is not Excommunication , nor Unchurcheth any . Object . 2. They must be made Disciples by Teaching . Answ . 1. If they be made Disciples any way , they must be Baptized . 2. As a mans hand or foot doth not understand by teaching , and yet is part of a Disciple that 's made such by teaching ; so Infants understand not , and yet are Infant Disciples , as being naturally so much appertaining to their Parents , that by Gods Law the Parents Will goeth for theirs in consenting for their good . They are Subjects before they obey , and servants of God before they serve him ( as those were to Abraham that were born to him in his house , ) and as Christ was a Priest before he Sacrificed , &c. And so they are Disciples before they learn ; and made such by thes teaching which made their Parents such , and taught them to dedicate them to God. If the King should send Embassadours to perswade the Heathens in New England at once to become Christians and his Subjects ; would any man doubt but when the Embassadours prevail with all the Adult to become the Kings Subjects , they do thereby make the Nations , and so all Infants as dependents on the Parents to be Subjects also ? And if the same speech of the same men make the Parents both Christians and the Kings Subjects , may it not as truly be said that that speech made the Infants Christians ( when the Parents consent ) as Subjects when they consent ? 3. If actual Learning or believing were necessary to the Christianity , or Church-membership of all , then whenever any one were Mad or Distracted , or in an Appoplexy ( if not every night while he is asleep ) he should cease to be a Christian and Church-member . And if Infants as part of Nations must be made Disciples , and all that are Discipled be Baptized , ( as the Investing act ) then here is a plain cmmand to Baptize Infants : All that must be Discipled must be Baptized : Infants must be Discipled : Therefore Infants must be Baptized : What have you more for Baptizing Kings ? And if men ask for Scripture Presedent , or fuller proof ; 1. I also require them to give me any one Scripture Presedent , where ever any one that was the Child of a Christian , and not at age when the Parents were made Christians , was afterward Baptized when he came to age ? Prove that and you will prove something . 2. I ask them whether many points in Divinity be not now taken as necessary , or sure , for which not the fourth part so much is produced out of Scripture as I have done for the Church-membership of Infants . And seeing you have so importunately called me to a Review ; I will add these few things more , [ I. ] What Benefits I perceive cometh by Infant-Baptism . [ II. ] What hurt would come if you could prevail against it . [ III. ] What sin you would draw men to by rejecting it . [ IV. ] And I will tell you what thanks therefore I owe to God for preserving me from your mistakes and way . I. And I cannot but think that all these following are Mercies not to be despised . 1. To be Gods Children , and God to be their God and Father . 2. To be Christs Members , and Christ to be their Head and Saviour . 3. To have the Holy Ghost in Covenant with them , to give them his Grace and help as shall be necessary to them upon the further terms on which it is by degrees to be communicated . ( of which more anon . ) 4. To have the pardon of all Original sin , as to the damning punishment , and so to have the Laws Condemnation disabled . 5. To be members of so holy , safe , and honourable a Society as the Church . 6. To have their Love and Prayers as Members . 7. To have Parents obliged solemnly to endeavour to educate and use their Children as members of Christ , fellow Citizens with the Saints , and of the Houshold of God. 8. To have right to Heaven , so dying , by Gods gift . 9. For Parents and Friends to have comfortable notice of all this . 10. And that they are not under the power and Kingdom of the Devil , as those that are Rebels against the Covenant , or that are without . II. Should your perswasions prevail against Infant-Baptism , these evils I think would follow . And whereas you say , that your Think is as good as my Think , pardon my modesty , and while you follow your own Think , give me and others leave to judge of mine , by the evidence at least of probability which I bring . 1. I think that Christian Parents would want one of their Motives to live in Thankfulness to God , and to magnifie the Grace of the Redeemer , if they did beleve that all Infants are in the visible Kingdom of the Devil , and have no Promise or Covenant-Grant of Pardon , Remedy , or Life . 2. The want of this Demonstration of Divine Love would be a disadvantage to their Love to God : For where much is forgiven , there will be much Love. 3. It would deprive Christian Parents of all the forementioned Comforts for their Childrens good , and leave them to mourn for the dead as those that have no hopes , which any Promise of God alloweth them . 4. Parents would be more negligent in the pious education of their Children , than they are ; for their solemn Vow and Promise is a great additional Obligation . 5. Young Persons would be more bold in sin , when they know that they are under no Covenant , Vow or Promise to the contrary : And they would usually delay their Repentance and Baptism ; as Constantine , and many in those times did ; as thinking that [ all sin is done away when I Repent and am Baptized ; but it is more dangerous to sin after Baptism than before : And so most would think it best to live out of the Church , and to die in it ; to live as Infidels , and die as Christians ; to live after the flesh as do the wicked , and to be regenerate before death , and to die the death of the Righteous . 6. These delayes would do [ as delay of Repentance now doth to many . ] even drive away Gods Spirit , forfeit grace , harden the heart , so that few delayers would be converted . 7. By these delayings of Repentance and liberty of sins , wickedness would more abound , and so Gods judgments against the land be more increased . 8. Pagans and Infidels would be hardened and encouraged , by the multitudes of the unbaptized , and the paucity of Christians . 9. For Christians would be but few in comparison of the multitude : just as Mr. Tombes thinks Christ would have it , [ here one and there one . ] 10. And while some delayed their Baptism in scruple , ( as many now do the Lords Supper ) and others to take the liberty of sinning ( which were like to be the common case of youth ) and others in senseless negligence , the Baptized and Unbaptized would grow ( like our Non-conformists and Conformists ) into distinct Parties , upon distinct Interest in point of Reputation ; and so the unbaptized become the Adversaries ( for the most part ) of the Baptized . 11. And the Rich , and the Multitude being usually the Unbaptized party , they would be still the strongest , and the Governours of the rest ; and the Laws and Government would be such as the Governours . 12. And hereupon the Church would be ( as before the dayes of Constantine ) ordinarily under Persecution . 13. This Persecution would detein the most from looking towards Christianity , and so hinder multitudes from comeing in to Christ : and woe to them that so offend or hinder such little ones ; It were better a milstone were hanged about their necks and they were cast into the depth of the Sea. 14. There would then be no sanctified Families dedicated to God , ( except those few that had no Children . ) 15. Much less would any Nation be Discipled , or any one Kingdom be the Kingdom of the Lord , and of his Christ . This is not the Condition that I desire and pray for : If you doubt of all or any of this , look to the Easterni parts of the world , and be not worse than those that will learn by nothing but experience . Judge whether under the Turkish Government the Greek Church be grown better , and whether the Christians are more and holyer than heretofore . And yet the Turks give Liberty of Religion , which most Unbaptized Princes do not . O dreadful Case ! That ever Religious persons should Study , Preach , Pray , and fervently Dispute and Write to bring the Christian world to this , as for the advancement of Religion ! III. To tell you of sinning , I suppose will be taken for fiery fury ; or a Reproach of the Godly : But I may tell you why I am not of your mind , and what sin I think I should be guilty of , if I were . 1. God made it a duty for Parents solemnly to enter their Children , by Dedication , into the Covenant of God ( as is oft proved . ) And how will men answer the non-performance hereof any more than their not Praying for them , or not feeding or Cloathing them ? 2. What a sin is it to rob Christ of so great a part of his Church ? 3. What a sin so to deny the Gospel Grace and Promise , and to hide so much of the Love of God ? 4. What a sin so far to confound the state of Christians and Pagans , as to their Childrens blessing ? 5. What a sin so to enlarge and honour the Devils Kingdom , as to give him all mankind visibly , till they come to age ? 6. What a sin to rob Parents of so much of their due comfort . 7. What a sin to deprive so many millions of Covenant-pardon , Grace and Life , by hindering the acceptance and consent ? 8. What a sin thus to change and take from the Word , yea from the very Covenant of God ? 9. What a sin to vilifie so great Mercy , as if it were none , and to preach such ingratitude ? 10. What a sin so to dishonour Christ , as if sin abounded so much more than his Grace , as that all Infants being visibly condemned , not one in the world is visibly pardoned or justified ? 11. Yea to make Christ so like Satan and contrary to himself , as to come into the world to cast or keep all mankind in Infancy out of the Church and Covenant of Grace ; And when his Name is called Jesus , because he saveth his people from their sins , he will take none for his people , till age , nor save any Infant visibly from sin , either guilt or habit , and so be no Jesus to any but the Adult , that we can know of : when yet before his comeing it was otherwise ; And so to make the Gospel much harder than the Law , and the yoak of Christ harder than the yoak of Circumcision . 12. Yea and to make the Gospel Church more narrow and unhappy than all the Pagan Nations were before , whose Children might have been Proselited with the Parents . 13. What a sin is it to teach men to be thus unnatural , and cruel to their Off-spring ? 14. What a sin to teach all that are not Re-baptized , that they break no Baptismal Vow or Covenant , nor sin against it , because they never were Baptized . 15. And is it nothing so to cross our Prayers , [ Let thy Kingdom come ] and to pray and endeavour that Christs Kingdom may not extend to any of mankind , till they actually at age believe . But the great difficulty which it will be expected that I resolve , is , Whether I do not imply , That all the Children of true Christians dedicated to God , having saving Grace in their Infancy , many after fall from it , seing experience tells us , that too many prove ungodly . I Answer , 1. So much of Scripture , and so great and many Mercies must not be all denyed , when a difficulty ariseth in the way , which we cannot at the present answer : Else what would become of most mens Christianity it self ? 2. This was no difficulty to the antient Fathers , no not to Augustin and his followers , and so to all the known Church of Christ for a thousand years after the Apostles , who commonly held that even of the Adult , many fall from true Grace , Justification , and a state of Life ; some appropriating perseverance to the Elect , ( as Austin ) and some to the confirmed in Grace , and some to both . 3. It is hard that they that cannot extricate themselves out of such difficulties , will but reproach those that offer them their help : But this is not the first time that I have ventured upon their Ingratitude : I speak of it still as a difficulty ; but what I have said in my [ More Reasons for Infants Church-membership . ] seemeth most probable to me , viz. 1. All Christians confess that Adam fell from a state of Salvation , or right to Life , at present . 2. Adams Grace which he lost , was a Power to Love God , and obey him , which he could use or suspend . 3. Beyond a meer Power , there is in the sanctified by the in-dwelling Spirit of Adoption ; Gracious Habits of Love and Obedience : What Adam had of this I am not here to determine . 4. Beyond meer weak Habits , there is in some , such Habits as are strong , confirmed and radicated . ( 5. And in Heaven above all these , there is full Perfection . ) Now I apply this , 1. Actual and Habitual , Love and Obedience , is in the sanctified Adult by the indwelling Spirit ; For Actual Love and Obedience is their Duty , which the Habit is joyned to . 2. Vocation giveth Faith and Repentance in Act , with some seminal disposition to the said Acts and Habits of Love and Obedience , ( as Amesius Medull . de Orat. ) not yet Habits ; and this Vocation goeth before Sanctification , Faith being the Condition on which the Spirit of Adoption and Sanctification is promised . 3. So much Grace may be given to Infants , as was to Adam , as to meer Power to do what he did not , and as the Dominicans call sufficient , or necessary Grace ; and perhaps such as is the innitial Disposition before full Sanctification . And this much may qualifie them for present Pardon and Justification , For Actual Love and Obedience is not their Duty , and consequently not the proper habit , beyond a Power and seminal Disposition , as of necessity to their first state of Grace : And as Adam lost this much , so may they . 4. The Sanctifying Spirit of Adoption , is not promised to Infants to work such Acts in them as they are not yet capable of , nor such Habits , as in Gods usual order follow such Acts ; But he is Related to them as their Sanctifier , because Christ will send the Spirit as they come to the use of Reason , to help them in holy Acts , and so to Habits , if they forfeit not his help . Which some do ( besides the perfidious neglect of Parents ) and so lose that Infant-Grace . 5. But all Gods Elect shall certainly have more than this Grace of sufficient , necessary , losable Power and Disposition , and shall at age have actual Faith , Love , and Obedience if they live . 6. What ever Infant dyeth in the state of that Grace & Disposition ( which we call sufficient , & in its nature was as loseable as Adams ) shall be perfected in his access to the perfecting Glory ( as all imperfect Saints are , ) and is one of the Elect , and shall by Promise be saved : ( allowing degrees of Glory : ) If there be no need , or evidence of this solution , and you have any other surer way , then cast this by as [ rotten dictating . ] Thus far I have given you an account of my Review : But yet I here repeat again ; That if you would be contented your selves , to satisfie your own Consciences to be Re-baptized , ( as one that doubted whether he were well Marryed would secure it by being Marryed over again ) and would afterward live peaceably in communion with your Brethren , and not appropriate Church-communion to your Sect. And if you would not deny our Infant part in the Covenant of Grace , the promise of Pardon , and life by Christ , and our Infant Church-membership , and only delayed the Baptismal Investiture , as Tertullian desired , for the more solemn inauguration , and obligation ; Though I should not be of your mind , I should live in as loving forbearance and Communion with you , as with other Christians . But if when we are for Peace , you are for Church-Wars , and cannot differ from us without Dividing , Unchurching , Unchristening , avoiding , and even Contemning or Slandering almost all the Christians in this and former ages , in such things I will have no Communion with you . The Fathers likened Re-ordaining , and Re-baptizing . If any would satisfie his own Conscience with being ordained again for surety , not Unchurching , Degrading , Avoiding , Reproaching , Persecuting those that are not of his mind , I would break no peace with such a Re-ordained Person : But if the Re-ordaining Sectaries will say as you , Our way only is right , we only are the true Ministers and Churches , and turn like to Donatists , I am not of their mind . And I here profess , that while I tell you of my dissent from your Extream , it implyeth no liking of the contrary extream of those that would confound the Christians & the Heathens , so far as equally to Baptise all their Children , if any Baptized person will but perfidiously promise that for them , which they never made any intelligent man believe that ever they intended to perform : Nor can I love the Hypocritical Religion of the Pharisees , which turneth almost all into Ceremony , as if they had to do with none but Children ; nor the turning of Catechising and Confirmation into a lifeless Formality , to be instead of a serious Profession at age , of the Christian Covenant , and a solemn intelligent transition to the Church Priviledges of the Adult . I know that it is Satans game , first to draw Hypocrites to mortifie Gods Ordinances , and turn Religion into an Image or a Carkass ; and thence to stir up others in several Sects , instead of Reviving them , to Loath and Bury them . Woe to the World because of Offences , and Woe to them by whom they come . Before I come to my Fourth Part , which is my Application to my self , I must take notice of some more of your Applicatory Letter in the way : And if I disorderly repeat some things , in following so disordered a Leader , you ( at least , whatever others do ) must take it patiently , it being far short of the tedious work which you seem to call for : You would have Mr. Danvers his Letter Answered , and you would have better Proof for Infant Baptism . It is not in my power to believe the Reasons of my two Books , which you generally take for none , to be no sound Reasons ; nor to believe Mr. Danvers his Books not to be such a bundle of most gross mistakes and Vutruths , as I scarce ever before met with , from a professed Christian . If I mistake , it is not in my power to do otherwise , were I to die this hour . And if I have offended the Anabaptists by a faithful perswading them to Repent of the doleful work which they have made in England , my Conscience more accuseth me for doing it no more , than for doing so much . If you take all men for as bad as you describe me , that wish your Repentance for such works , and also for our woful Church Divisions , and differ from you about Infant-Baptism , and that yet beg for mutual forbearance , and peaceable Communion with you , I am not of your spirit or mind , and hope neither to live nor die in so narrow a Communion . As for any more Answering any of you , those that I converse with , tell me it is needless ; I repent that I have been drawn by Contenders so often to interrupt more useful work . If more be needful , let them do it that have leisure , and longer life . You say , that It is now a common question whether ever I will die a Martyr ? I am sorry that your Acquaintance are hardened , and used to questions that so little concern them , and that are so unmeet for their Determination : If Suffering be the best State , how happy hath this Kingdom been made by the OVERTURNERS ? Do you mean that you doubt whether ever the Anabaptists will have Power enough to effect it ? they attempting what they did against me too late , just when they and their Co-partners were a pulling down themselves and others ? Or do you mean , that till we are Martyred we are not capable of your good Opinion ? ( And are all the Anabaptists Graceless that are yet Unmartyred ? Or have more Anabaptists than Poedobaptists been Martyred in our times ? ) Or is it only your Prognostick on supposition of my Tryal ? I have more cause to distrust my self , and beg Gods strengthning Grace , than boastingly to foretel , Though all men deny thee , yet I will not . ] But your talk of [ my flight , and others suffering by proxie for me ] doth but shew that you have not that care of avoiding Falshoods in matter of Fact , which might invite us to think that you are liker than others to be sound in Doctrine . But had you not mistaken , yet I might have admonished you , not to have condemned every Anabaptist that hath taken a grosser flight , than a sick mans going for his health into the Countrey , when he had neither any Flock , nor Vndertaking , nor Call to hinder him : At least that you mock not at Paul for being let down by the wall in a Basket , nor at Christ for his flight into Aegypt , or withdrawing into the Wilderness , and into Gallilee , &c. nor for saying , When they persecute you in one City , flee to another : or at least pass no hard sentence on your self for being yet alive ; no nor on Mr. Tombes for Writing against Separation , and for Communion with the Parish Churches . But in the end you [ Beseech me in the Bowels of Jesus Christ , and as I will shortly answer at the great and dreadful Tribunal that among my other Errata , I would repent of that absurd and Heretical position , of a Baptismal Covenant of Grace running in a Fleshly Line . Answ . But 1. Just thus the Quakers dreadfully adj●re me to repent of all that 's against their way ; and must I therefore do it ? And yet Mr. Hicks , Ives , and other Anabaptists treat them far more sharply than cover I did the Anabaptists . 2. I have so many years looked for my appearing at the Tribunal of Christ , that if I should not be true to that Light which doth appear to me , I were more unexcusable than yet you think me . But will your word at that Tribunal pass for Law , or for my Justification , if I should contradict the Grace and Covenant of God , and his Church Laws and state from the dayes of Adam to this day ? How shall I be sure that it is the Bowels of Christ , and not Self-conceitedness , and the Zeal of a dividing Sect , in which you make this carnest sute to me ? 3. Especially when you so unintelligibly recite my supposed Errour , and give me not a word of Answer against that abundance of Scripture proof which I have brought ? This is too unsatisfactory an answering of Books , to Beseech us to repent of them ? 4. The Wisdom from above is Pure , & Peaceable , and without Partiality . Is yours so ? Ask any Impartial man whether you write like one that knoweth himself ? You here call us to Repent of a Position as Absurd and Heretical ? Did I ever call your Opinion Heretical . Not that I remember ? Such writing as this of mine is fiery ; but your large Invectives without one word of proof , and your charge of an Heretical Position , is nothing but Christian Gentleness . Your Phrase of a Covenant running in a Fleshly Line , is your own . The words of a position charged as heretical , should have been truly recited . Tell me where I ever used such . I refer you to my late two Disputations of Original Sin , besides my two Books of Baptism , for full proof that God hath taken the Children of the Godly and the Wicked as participants , into Promises of Love and Mercy , and threatnings of punishment , with their Parents : How far , I have there opened . Your telling me that such Reference is to set you the task of Sysiphus , shall not so befool me as to tempt me to write the same over again : For by the like reason , others of as great authority as you may call me to write it twenty times . And if I give neer thirty Scripture Testimonies or Arguments for our Infant Mercies , we that see no reason to invalidate them , will not so despise God and his Laws and Benefits , as to deny or reject all , because such a man as you require it , and tells us that they are all invalid . If we must take our Faith on Trust : it were more excusable to take it from Councils , than from you . I have told you my judgement herein so often , that it is the more disingenuous in you to give it in such senseless or ambiguous words , as [ A Baptismal Covenant running in a Fleshly Line . ] Gods Covenant as Instituted , runs no where ; but is recorded in the Scripture , Preached , and Ministerially applyed by his Ministers . Mans Convenanting Act , is absurdly said to [ run in a Fleshly Line . ] But men that have Flesh as well as Souls , do accept Gods Covenant , and enter themselves and Infants in the mutual Convenant by dedicating both to God. Natural Generation ( communicating essence ) maketh your Children to be naturally yours , which is so neer an interest , that Original Sin and suffering tells us that God esteemeth not our Children naturally guiltless of the Parents Crimes : And he hath provided a Remedy for both , and not for the Parents or Adult only : And the Remedy is a pardoning saving Covenant procured by a Mediator . This Convenant is Vniversal to the Adult , as offered on the condition of Believing acceptance : And is there no Promise , no Covenant for Infants ? Why so ? Have they no need of Pardon , and a Saviour ? or are they left remediless as the Devils ? Or is the Promise of their Salvation without any Condition ? If so , is it to all , or to some only ? if to all , and so all are Christs members , then all ( Turks and Pagans ) Children should be Church-members . This were to make it run unto a Fleshly Line indeed ? If not to all , to whom , or to how many ? Is it to more than twenty in the world ? or more to Christians Children than others ? If it be a Promise of Pardon and Life , and neither tell to how many , nor to whom ; 1. This is a strange Promise , and is no mutual Covenant ? Shew us where in Scripture we may find it ? 2. This then must be another Species of a Covenant of Grace , distinct from the Baptismal Covenant ; and to feign and add a second sort of Covenant is another kind of adding to the Word of God , than adding of Ceremonies is . And who can say in all the world , that any Child of his hath any part in such a Promise ? or that Pagans have not as much of it as Christians ? All Promises of Pardon to the Adult are conditional , and some means for certain Title is prescribed ? Is there no means for the certain pardon of our Infants ? 2. But if you will say that it is conditional , what is that Condition ? That which I have still said is this , The Condition is , that they be the Children of the Faithful dedicated to God : not meerly that they be our Fleshly Line ; that doth but make them ours , and ( with Gods Law ) enable and oblige us to dedicate them in Covenant to him : But being thus in our power , and our Wills for them as their own , it is our dedicating them to God , that is the immediate Condition : And every true Christian doth dedicate himself , and his Children to God , as far as he thinks himself enabled : This dedication is virtually in our own actual sanctification , and actually when we have Children , which is solemnized in Baptism . What we devote to God by his Will he doth accept : And we can shew his Promises to the Seed of his Servants , and will not plead against our Mercies . Should we Apostatize our selves , the Mercies promised to the generations of them that love God , would be intercepted , and would not run to a Fleshly Line : But an Infant by Believers dedicated to God , is not unclean but holy , and so better than a meer Fleshly Line . To pour out your Clamours against our Proof , full and plain proof , of this , from the whole current of the Scripture , and to vaunt , and talk with such Confidence as you do in the dark , as if all this were un-proved , ( and the very second Commandment were again cast out , and Gods own Proclamation of his Name , Exod. 34. 6 , 7. ) and to call for more Answers , while you cry out of too much ; and to talk against dictating , while you thus obtrude your Quaker-like Oratory , Contempt , & Obtestations , instead of Argument and Answers ; this must not make us unthankful Despisers of the Promises of God. If you would thus Hector men out of their Inheritances , or the title of their Infants to them , few would think you argued cogently : And should the words of such self-conceited singular persons , which we take to be against the scope of Scripture , and consent of Christs Church , make us give up all Infants Convenant-title to Church-membership , Pardon and Salvation ? You read frequently in the Gazetts , that many set so much by their Dogs , as to cry them about , and offer great rewards to those that find them , and will bring them home ; And shall all Christians set so little by their Children ( and so by all our own Infant Priviledges ) as to be hector'd out of our hopes , and renounce their great and precious Promises , which number them with the houshold of God : and that by such Rhetorical Canting as a man of equal wit may use , in almost any other Controversie ? As Cicero wondered at them that pleaded against the immortality of the Soul , that ever men would be such enemies to themselves , as to study for reasons against their own interest and hopes ; so I say , Though our meer Interest prove nothing to be true , it tells us , what we should desire ; and when we find Gods word so excellently suited to our Interest , let them dispute against it that will , for I will not . Let the Enemies of mankind or of Christians , plead against the Interest of mankind and of Christians , and not themselves . It 's an unavoidable streight that we are in , between them that silence and ruine us in this world , among such other things , for not professing our Assent , that [ It is certain by the Word of God , that Infants Baptized ( none in the world excepted ) and dying before actual sin , are certainly Saved ▪ ] not allowing us to preach Christs Gospel if we cannot say that all This is certain ; ( were it Faith in Christ himself , the weak in Faith should be received ; ) and such as you on the other side , that account us even Heretical if we will not be so unthankful to God , as to deny and reject the precious Covenant Hopes , and Church-relation of our Children . You know that with what measure you mete it is measured to you again by many ; and that no small number of Christians have numbred Anabaptists with Hereticks ; and yet I that have dealt otherwise with you , am your most fiery Adversary ? And why ? Any judicious By-stander may see , though you cannot : just as as W. Pen lately seemed to think more favourably of me than of others , till in an open dispute I had detected the evil of his cause ; and then [ he had rather be a Socrates at judgment , than such a nominal Christian as I : so you and your Brethren that are like you , because a Book or two of mine have cross'd the Interest of your Party , think I deserve all that you pronounce of or against me ; so powerful is Interest with most mens understandings : so far as it is your mistake of the Interest of Christ that does mislead you , I easily bear it as the infirmity of a weak and prejudiced judgment : But so far as it is the interest of your Party which is abused against the publick interest of Christs Church it is selfish , and such as is described at large in James 3. As for your talk of Mr. Danvers his words against my Heterodoxes in other matters , and your supercilious insulting as if he were unanswered , I say , 1. I take him to be fully answered , and if you do not , that proveth it not to be as you affirm . 2. What more should I answer ? What doth he but recite some scrap of my words ? Had he done it truly and fully , had that been any Argument against them ? Do I need to answer my own words , before any Charge against them be proved , or proof once attempted ? Was it not enough for me to lay down the Contraries to my Doctrines , and leave the Reader to choose which he seeth best ? Dare you not own the Contraries , and yet continue your accusation of my words ? Would not the World ( whom I blame not if they think that I have written too many Books already ) condemn me for a fool indeed , if in the condition that I am in , the Cant of such men as he and you , should draw me to write another Volumn in Defence of a Volumn that defendeth it self to all judicious Impartial Readers , and that against one that proveth nothing in it to be Erronious ? And as for those that will not impartially peruse the words accused , I have no reason to think that they will make any better use of a Defence if I should write it ? And as I am past doubt that Mr. D's Quarrels , and your Justification of them , are the effect of meer ignorance , self-conceit , partiality , and passion ; so if you prove to be the knowing men , and I the ignorant , I am sure it is not through my neglect of Study , nor unwillingness to know or own the Truth : And I have no cause to envy you the felicity of your greater Wisdom . But if it be a Wisdom that tendeth to bitter strife and to confusion , and destroyeth your Love to those that differ from you , I will remember that my peace lyeth more on my Love to you , than on yours or any mans else to me . As for your talk about my words in my first book that some did then Baptize naked , I have given you a true answer . To contradict what I said , were to lie : I know not that you Baptize any at all but by report of others ; and so I heard that then of some so credibly as that I am not able now because you call for proof almost thirty years after , to disbelieve it : I undertake not to prove it now ; ( nor that the Quakers then used to Quake or Vomit , seeing now no such thing is seen among them : ) If really it was a misreport , and never any Baptized naked in England , nor in other Lands , I wish that no man may believe it . But did Mr. Danvers take this for so heynous an injury , and yet himself in2 Books labour to prove , that for many hundred years Baptizing naked was the ordinary Custome ! O how far will partiality blind men ? Was it the Custome of all the Churches , and yet a Reproach to be retracted , to say that at one time divers did so , if fame , not then denyed by any of those Anabaptists that I converst with , may be believed ? To conclude , Sir , The importunity of Mr. Danvers and you have not been unprofitable to me : It hath caused me , as you desired , to Review my old thoughts of Infants Church-membership and Baptism , and to renew my thanks to the God of Mercy , who hath not left all the World in their Infancy unredeemed , nor without a Promise or Covenant of Grace ; nor left Christian Parents to mourn for their dead Infants , as those that are without hope of their Salvation , and have no Promise on which to ground their hope : It hath renewed my sense of the great obligation that lyeth on believing Parents , both of gratitude to God , and duty for their Children : It tells me that they may now love their Children , as the members of the Church of Christ , and need not , nay must not take them as members of the Kingdom of the Devil ; nor yet stretch their Brains to prove that there is a middle Region ( like Purgatory , or Limbus Infantum hereafter ) between the Kingdom of Christ , and the Kingdom of the Devil ; And that it is a sad employment for Parents to dispute their own Children out of the Blessings of Gods Covenant , and to prove them to be in Satans Kingdom , and not in Christs : Yea it hath reminded me how much the Interest of Infants in their Parents case is founded by God in nature it self , and to bless God for that inscription in Stone of the second Commandment , and that marvellous voice from Heaven , Exod. 34. 6 , 7. I believe that the Synod of Dort said truly , Acts 1. 17. That Faithful Parents need not doubt of the Election and Salvation of their Children dying in Infancy , ( before the violation of the Baptismal Covenant . ) And seeing God hath pronounced our Children holy , and not unclean , and told us that of such is the Kingdom of God , it remindeth me how careful Parents should be , as thankfully to dedicate them to God , so carefully to educate them according to their Covenant , remembering that as the Parents Consent and dedication of them to God , is the Condition of their first right to the Covenant benefits , so those Parents do Promise their pious education ; and if they after prove false in such Promises on their part , they must not charge God with unfaithfulness , if it go worse with their Children than on supposition of the Parents fidelity it had done ; ( though still at age they may be accepted upon Repentance and personal Belief : ] Of which Mr. Whiston hath written more judiciously than any on that point that I remember . Also I have been hereby made thankful that God kept me from the snare of Anabaptistry ; for though I lay not so much as some do on the meer outward act or water of Baptism , believing that our heart consent and dedication qualifieth Infants for a Covenant Right before actual Baptism ( which yet is Christs regular solemnization and investiture , ) yet I make a great matter of the main Controversie , notwithstanding that I hereticate not the Anabaptists for the bare opinion sake , nor would have them persecuted ; for now I better see than ever what God hath thus preserved me from . 1. How much else might I have been led to , that tendeth towards the denying the Kingdom of Christ , and denying him to be the Saviour of the world ; yea how neer might I have been led towards the making him to be the Destroyer , or Abaddon , as comeing into the World to condemn the world , and to take from them the Promises and Hopes of Salvation : For , 1. I find that all are lost in Adam , and that God made an Vniversal Covenant of Grace with fallen mankind in Adam after his fall , and renewed it with Noah : I find that it is but a small part of the world that had the Law of Moses , the Jews being to the earth , but as one Village to England ; and to be King but of a Village is not to be King of England . I find that the making of Abraham's or Moses his Covenant was no repeal of the Vniversal Law of Grace ; nor put them into a worse condition than he found them in . And I find that past all doubt Infants were Church-members , and in the Covenant before Christs Incarnation , not only the Circumcised but the Uncircumcised Females , and all the Uncircumcised Males in the Wilderness , yea and out of the Jewish Nation , as well as in it , ( though the Covenant of Peculiarity was proper to them . ) And yet notwithstanding all this , I find , 1. that many now do exclude all the world out of Christs Kingdom before his Incarnation , except the Jews , or at least a few rare individuals more , when Abraham hoped there had been fifty Righteous in Sodome . 2. That the same men suppose that since Christs Incarnation , the old Law of Grace made to mankind in Adam and Noah , is repealed , and they that cannot have the Gospel are left under the meer Law of Innocency or none . 3. And that all mankind in their Infant state is put or left out of the Church of Christ , and the Covenant of Life . And had I been seduced into all this , 1. To hold that for 4000 years Christ had a Kingdom no bigger than England . 2. That he came to deprive all the world that have not his Gospel , of the former Law of Grace that was made to them . 3. And that he came to cast out of their Church-state , or Covenant-mercies all mankind while they are Infants ; and to leave us no hope that is grounded on his Covenant or Promise of any Infants Salvation , or any description or condition whatsoever : Alas , what should I have been led to ? and what guilt against Christ , and of furthering Infidelity , should I have incurred , under the pretense of promoting the purity of his Kingdom ? II. And if God had thus left me , I had been likely ( as I see by others ) to have gone yet farther , and narrowed the Gospel Church it self so much , as to have confined it to the Anabaptists ; or to have thought all the rest of the Christian world uncapable of Church Communion ; I might have come to revile the Doctrine of Gods gracious Promise or Covenant to our Children , as Absurd and Heretical ; and when Gratitude is the complexion of Gospel obedience , this Ingratitude might have been mine . III. And then I should likely have been left to a proud over-valuing of my own Opinion , and the singularity of my Wisdom and Integrity , as quite beyond all the Christian worlds that differ from me : And out of a selfish unobserved adherence to my own conceits , to have magnified the Sect that was of my own mind , above all others . IV. And then I might have been seduced to have had a hand in all the Turnings and Overturnings , setting up and pulling down , Praying and Unpraying , Owning and Disowning , Bloody dayes and Thanksgivings for them , that were since Triplo Heaths-Parliament till 1660. and more than so , to have justified them in others , yea and that after Gods most remarkable disowning them ; yea and to have abhorred and derided the very name and motion of Repentance for them , and to have despised the Religious Retreat of Nath. Ward , a wise though jocular Interpendent , though Repentance be the only Plank after Shipwrack , and the great and merciful concession of the Gospel . V. I might have been drawn hereby to divide Christs Kingdom , and to set up Antichurches , whose employment should be to cry down others , and draw men into odious thoughts of one another , and to destroy Christian Love and Concord in the world . VI. And hereby I might have been one that prepared Professors to turn Quakers , Seekers , or Ranters , to have finished the work that I began . VII . I might have been tempted to do all this as in the Name of Christ , and for his Truth , Word and Church ; and so to have entitled God to all , and put his holy Name to these works of Darkness , and pretended his own Commission for my opposing him . VIII . I might have been tempted hereby to write Letters as long and vehement as yours , in as or●●●cal and pious a strain , which should have been b●●… birth of my ignorance and self-conceit , and made ●… of Hypocrisie ; all along pretending that I am offended with my Adversary for want of an Answer or proof , when indeed it were the success of his Answers & Cogent Proofs , prevailing with multitudes against my Opinion , that was the true cause of my anger : and when partiality had filled my heart with bitterness against my Brother for such success , I might have been drawn to cover all from my self and others , by accusing him of fieryness or folly in generals , and by summoning him to Repentance and Recantation , as the Quakers do , by the dreadful Tribunal of God , when I cannot resist the Scripture evidence which he bringeth . IX . And I might have been tempted when once Prepossession , Prejudice & Interest of Reputation had engaged me to so bad a cause , to have studyed all that I can rake together to maintain it ; and to have stretch'd all my wits to have opposed all that is brought against it , and to have made it the chief work and Religion of my life , in which my thoughts , affections , time and industry should be laid out to carry on this mistaken and destructive cause , and to keep the Churches of Christ from Loving-Unity , Communion and Peace , till they will all unite against Infants Church-membership and Baptism , which they never did , nor never will do : Yea , and I must have taught all Christian Parents , that though they must love their Children as they are their own , ( as Heathens do ) yet that they must not Love any one Infant in the world , as a Member of Christ , or of his Church , and in his Covenant . X. And by all this , what a Scandal should I have given to the Atheists , Infidels , Papists and Profane , to harden them in their Contempt of Godliness , and Derision , or Accusations of Religious men ; as if all serious Religion among us were but Pride , Contention , Humour and Hypocrisie , and a Cloak for our Mala●ies and Crimes . Yea I might have tempted them to Persecution , and quieted their Consciences in silencing Christs Ministers , for the sake of such , whom they think they use not so ill as they deserve . XI . And alass what a distraction and scandal should I have caused to the ignorant and weak , when they see so many wayes , and hear men calling them this way and that way , and terrifying them with Gods Judgment , and the charge of Sin , if they be not of this mind or of that , till poor people ( that have a plain Rule left them by Christ ) are driven out of all Religion , or out of their Wits , as not knowing of what side and way to be . XII . And I should have been like enough to have been drawn into the guilt of Persecution my self , while I cryed out against Persecution . I might have Persecuted my Brethren with my Tongue , and thought it necessary to the promoting of the cause of God , to blast their just Reputation , and to make them by falshoods to become despised , lest their names should hinder my design . Yea , who knows but I might my self have joyned with those whom you judged the persecuting Silencers of the Ministers of Christ , and Ruiners of the Churches Peace , by endeavouring the continuance of those same Impositions , and keeping Ministers out of the publick Ministry , and depriving them of all the established Maintenance , which in the judgment of the Sectaries themselves is heynous sin , and all this lest Repentance and Altering such Impositions ( unless they will do it as far as the said persons desire ) should weaken their Party , and leave them under greater disagvantages ; and to have thus desired mens impenitent Continuance of that which is accounted heynous Persecution and Devastation of the Churches , and starving many thousand Souls , and undoing Ministers ▪ and their Families , might have made all this to be my own by such consent , yea and endeavour ; and the pitiful shift of [ opposing a Comprehension , to keep off our own Sufferings , or our weakening , and the dividing of the Non-conformists . ] might have been an Opiate to my Conscience for so heynous an Iniquity . XIII . Yea , who knows but I might have come to that inhumanity , and immodesty as to falsifie publick History , against the common notice of all the Learned world ; and to have faced down mankind that the Novatians were against Infant Baptism , and so were the Donatists ; and that Austin wrote divers Books against them , as holding that Opinion ; and that the Brittains of old were of the same mind , and the Waldenses since , and Wickliffe also , &c. And if Learned men had wondred at my impudence , I might have comforted my self that my followers will believe me : yea and to have furiously calumniated those that detect my sin , and call me to Repentance , and to have reproached them as foolish and fiery who will defend the Mercies of Christ , and their Infant hopes and title to pardon and salvation . These and many more evils I might have been seduced into , if I had yielded to those reasonings that would have drawn me to deny the Graces of the Covenant ; and which in my youth once did cause some doubting in me , till I diligently studyed the point ; my ignorance of the true nature of the Covenant and Baptism , and the weakness of many Writers Arguments against the Anabaptists , being then my great Temptations . And now , Sir , I thank you for calling me , in the bowels of Christ , as I will answer it at Gods dreadful Tribunal , to a Review of the Cause which I was drawn by your Brethren to defend : For it causeth me in the Review of the Nature and Reasons of it , to renew my thankfulness to God for my preservation , and that he hath made any use of me to vindicate his Covenant , and the Mercies given by it to mankind , and for saving me from this fore-described deluge ; and I solemnly protest in his sight , that knoweth my heart , that if I knew , or by study could find out that Papists , Conformists , Separatists , Anabaptists , or Quakers were in the right , I would quickly and joyfully declare my consent , & be glad before I die , to joyn with them , and recant what I have held , or said , or done against them . But the Reasons which I have given in my two Books , and which Mr. Jos . Whiston ( above most others ) hath lately given , seem to me unanswerable . And yet I doubt not but Mr. Danvers or you can answer them all ; there being few Causes so clear that a man may not talk against , as long as his talking faculty holds out : But do not expect that I should offend you by Replying , to words which I think need no Reply , unless the necessities of such as are deceived by you do require it . Blessed be that Mercy that will shortly Reconcile his dark mistaken wrangling Children in the World of Reconciling Light and Love , in the perfect Vnity , which Grace is now preparing us for , and they that live in Faith and Love , are breathing after : And woe to them who by dead Formalities elude and hinder mens solemn intelligent owning of their Baptismal Covenant at age , and thereby make Anabaptists , and make Infant-baptism seem a Crime . London , Decemb. 31. 1675. Rich. Baxter . Mr. Danvers his Third Reply Considered , at Mr. Hutchinson's Invitation . BEfore the Receipt of Mr. Hutchinsons Letter , I knew nothing of Mr. Danvers his Third Reply , which I have now perused : Though by his Conclusion one would think that he took open Rebuke for a tolerable , yea acceptable , friendly office ; yet finding how impatiently he receiveth it , and that the detection of his Voluminous Untruths doth but occasion him to defend them , and to stir up all his Forces to render the Reprover odious , and so doth but exasperate his Disease , I thought my self disobliged from any farther attempts to bring him to Repentance ; And those that yet need more to save them from the belief of his Historicall Misreports , are persons that I have not leisure enough to satisfie . I again profess , that the experience of these last fifteen years , of the strange incredibility of some men on both extreams , [ the Violent and the Dividing ] about notorious matters of Fact , hath done more to bring me to great unbelief of all mankind , so far as I find them pre-engaged by Contention , and by a Carnal , or a sideing factious Interest , than all that ever I before had read , or heard , or seen : I should once have thought that I had been injurious to humanity it self , if I had thought such men as incredible as some have now declared themselves in Print to be : I scarcely now believe any meer humane History any farther than the agreement of men of contrary minds and interests , in matters of common and easie notice , giveth a kind of natural evidence to it , beyond what it borroweth from the honesty of the Writer ; or at least farther than the footsteps of very great Candor , Conscience and unbyassed impartiality shall speak more for my belief , than the Authors most confident words or Oaths . And herein modest men , and disinterested Peace-makers are now believed by me , before all the greatest , the learned'st , and the most zealous Contenders in the world . Davids saying , that All men are Lyars , and Pauls [ Let God be true , and every man a Lyar , ] were too much overlooked by me , till men themselves had told me what they are ; and warned me to cease from man , as vanity . Mr. Danvers his accusations were partly of such publick parties ( the ancient Churches , the Novatians , the Donatists , the old Brittains , the Waldenses , the Wickliffians , &c. ) and partly of such publick Writings ( as Augustines and many others ) as one would think any Scholar that will read the cited Books might soon see whether he or I be the falsifyer , especially about a practical matter , in which their Judgments could not easily be hid from all the Adversaries about them , no more than from those of their own mind and way . His accusation of the Novatians he neither defendeth ( that I see ) nor confesseth to be a slander ; but silently passeth all the matter by . His Accusation ( for such it is ) of the rest ( for the most part at least ) he still defendeth . He cannot Repent of it ; and I can no more believe him when I have read the Books that are our Records , than I can if he would as fiercely contend , that the Bishops , or Church of England are Anabaptists , because of his accusation of the now Bishop of Lincoln . But should I be so injurious to the Reader and my self as to cast away precious time in again and again answering his untrue Citations and expositions of words which are before our eyes ? and which neither his word or mine can satisfie any Reader of , who must know the truth by the Books themselves ! when he tells men of my writing for Popery , Conformity , &c. can his yea or my nay go for proof with any that is in doubt which of us saith true ? Must not the perusal of the full words decide the Case ? And so it must as to his Accusations of the several Churches and Parties in questions : And if his Believers would be perswaded that the Welsh Tongue is the common Language of England , if he do but vehemently affirm it , and revile such as contradict him , I could not help it , nor must I write books about it , as long as he hath leisure , Ink and Paper to hold on . His Exclamations of the unsatisfactories of these general answers , ( or refusals ) shall not tempt me to cast away the little relicts of my time , in numbring and disproving all the Vntruths that he hath written , and will write . By what Law am I condemned to such a Drudgery ? The very first Paragraph of this his third Reply hath more than one or two . But the chief substance of his Book is his reiterated accusation of my words in my first Book , that [ many then Baptized naked ] for which , as a heynous Calumny , I must Repent . Readers , my Conscience telleth me that Repentance is such an excellent healing Duty , that I shall loath my self so far as I find my self unwilling of it ? But is it possible for a man to Repent of all that the several contradicting Sects ( Papists , Quakers , Anabaptists , &c. ) call him to Repent of , when that is best with one side which is the worst to divers others ? We are openly agreed , 1. That the Baptizing naked is not the usual way of the Anabaptists in England . 2. That it was not the way of the most of them when I wrote that book . 3. That we heard of none with us in England that for any considerable time continued it . The Questions remaining are 1. Whether when I wrote those words , the common Fame or Report of the Countrey where I lived took it not for as certain that divers then in some places did it , as the most Scriptural way , as that the Quakers Quaked , and that the Ranters Swore ? 2. Whether ever any Anabaptist that then was acquainted with me , yea or any one person denyed it to my hearing or knowledge ? 3. Whether Mr. Tombes denyed it when I wrote it ? All these I will no farther trouble the Reader about , than to tell him that he neither doth , or can disprove me , and should I recant what I said of these three questions , I must tell three downright Lyes ? And is that a safe way of Repenting ? 4. But let the question be whether I did well to believe it ? I answer , I believed it not as a Divine Revelation , but as a Humane Report ; which constrained a proportionable belief , which it was not in my power to deny ? 5. But should I not yet disbelieve it ? Answer , I am more willing to do it than not , but I am not able : I do believe ( according to the measure of the aforesaid evidence ) that it is a Truth ? I cannot believe the contrary : I hear not a word to warrant me to disbelieve it : it is not in my power , and I must not lie , to say that I believe it not . 6. But the next Question is , Did I not say more , or mean more at least , than that it was but [ at that time ] [ the practise of many but not of most , or their ordinary way ] and that I knew it no otherwise than by uncontradicted Fame ? ] Answer , Either I did say or mean more , or I aid not . If I did , I hereby renounce it , and declare that I wronged them . If I did not , ( as I know I did not ) to say I did were to lie ; and is it worthy his writing a Book to tempt a man to lie ? If he will prove that I said more , the words must decide it if ; that I meant more , he is not to be believed of my heart , as if he knew it better than I. But he proveth it ( that I intended them all ) contrary to my most express words . 1. He saith , it is my scope and design ? 2. From my Arguments , which take in the whole Party ? 3. From the Instance , &c. Reader , If I were to teach a man to understand my book , before he wrote against it , I should have some little hope of true dealing in his Report , how weak soever his Arguing were : But when I must deal with a man that understandeth not plain English , because partiality will not suffer him , and will not learn to understand what he doth not , and yet cannot forbear a publick contradicting it , till he understand it , would it not be a slavery to be tyed to write against such a man as long as he would write , should I live so long ? I joyned together , as the mode of their Re-baptizing , their doing it in cold water or Rivers , some naked , and the rest ( the usual way ) next naked , that is , in a linnen Shift , or Vest , only to cover them . I took that which in the hotter Countreys was safe , to be in our frigid Countreys a breach of the sixth Commandment ; and can prove , that he that said , [ Go learn what that meaneth , I will have Mercy and not Sacrifice ] would not have plunging over head in Cold Water , to be the ordinary way with us . I supposed that as among the naked Indians , use maketh nakedness a less provocation to Lust , than it would be here ; so also in the hotter Regions , of the world , their appearing publickly next to naked , in one linnen Vest or Shift , was less unseemly than it would be here : David might dance so before Ark , though Michel thought it impudent ; and they might usually were such Garments as would not have kept their Nakedness from being seen , if they had gone by steps upon the Altar ; and such as if it were but turned aside would leave their nakedness as Noah's was to spectators : Custome is of great signification in such things . But I appeal to common Modesty with us in England , whether it would not be a breach of the seventh Commandment to come to Church , or walk the Streets , or appear in Assemblies in our Shirts and Smocks ? Now this man first feigneth me to say that it is Adultery , because I say it is a breach of the seventh Commaadment , as if nothing but Adultery were there forbidden ? Next to prove that I mean it of them all , that [ They Baptize naked ] he alledgeth that I said , that all or most did it , [ naked or next naked ] and , are these all one ? pray doth he not disprove himself ? Is it not sure that he that saith , [ some Baptize naked , and others next naked ] doth not say of all [ that they Baptize naked ] What should one say to such a man as this ? But he saith , that [ some naked and next naked are much at one . ] Answer , That 's but another of his Untruths , from whom they flow so easily that I may not number them . A grosser and lesser breach of the seventh Commandment are not much at one with me . I never said or thought that they were . If I had , is that any thing to the question in hand ? Can he prove that I said [ All Baptized naked ? ] if I had said , that I took [ next naked ] to be as bad . 2. But de facto , doth he deny the latter ? it seems here that he doth . I profess also that I go in this but by Common Fame . If they Baptize not next naked in one linnen Shift , I never heard it denyed till now ? I renounce the mention of it if it be untrue ; but it is not in my power to disbelieve it . But because I never saw it , if he will say that they Baptize them all in hats , bands and cuffs , I will not peremptorily deny it . But he will prove that I meant not [ Common Fame ] because I add [ Experience , &c. ] But sure I never alledged my own Experience . ] I never saw any of them Baptize : I never heard a Ranter Blaspheme , ( though I have read Letters full of it ; ) nor I never saw a Quaker quake . If you say that they never did so , I will not prove it . But how shall other mens Experiences be known to me , but by Report or Fame ? And I think that the more common and uncontradicted the Report is , it is the more probable . I have not leisure to go on at this rate with such a Writer ; I again profess that I had rather Retract what I said than not , if I could do it without lying , but I cannot . But , Reader , what 's all this to the Question , Whether our Infants are in Covenant with Christ , or Visible Members of his Church ? Is it not a meer Diversion ? But the last Question is , Have I not wronged their Cause by wronging the Persons , in believing Fame , that ever any of them Baptized naked ? Answer , 1. I have not the books now to peruse , ( men of his Spirit , though of another Opinion , have disabled me at this time from confuting him by books . ) But I am past doubt , that I have read of their Baptizing naked in forreign Writers . 2. But , Reader , Could one that had read this Book of his against me , for this passage as injurious , believe if he had not seen his other Books , that it is this same man himself , who in his two former Books maintaineth it against us , that for many hundred years , Baptizing naked was the Churches Practise ? Was this no injury ? Or shall the same man take me as injurious for believing the same of some of them for a very little time ? I hope I have almost done with such Disputers . As to what he saith of Mr. Lambes and Mr. Allens . ( who have left them , ) exceedingly as he hears , blaming me for broaching , much more for defending this slander . ] I answer , 1. His Heresay's have quite lost their credit with me : I believe it never the more for his hearing it : They never blamed me to my face : and I think that they are men likely to do it in that friendly way , if any way ; and therefore at least I may hear from them hereafter ; and if so , their reproof shall be willingly considered . If it be true , I suppose it is , because they have mistaken me as he doth , as if I had spoken that of their ordinary practice , which I mentioned only as the practice of some only at that time ; which was as short and confined as the Quakers quaking . 2. Is it a slander of Mr. Tombes his citing Vossius , or of Vossius cited by him , to say that some Baptized naked in former times ? 3. Is it then no slander of Mr. Danvers to say , and stiffly defend it , that the ancient Churches ordinarily did so ? Doth he who so pleadeth for Immersion , because it was the first way , now take it for well done in the ancient Churches , and an intollerable slander that it should be said to have been done of any of late ? He next cometh to defend his false Report of a Paper which I read to some people that I preached to : The first hour that ever I spake to them , I openly professed that we met not there as separating from the publick Assemblies , but for the necessary instructing of the people , who else had none , nor any publick Worship of God : The Parish of Giles where I lived , and the Parish of Martins where I preached are supposed to have 1000000. souls or neer : of these it is supposed that not above 6000. can hear in the Parish Churches at the most ( and the incumbent of one had not officiated at all for many years : ) it grieved me to think that while the King aintainerh a Corporation and Revenew for propagating the Gospel in America , and the Jesuites are justly praised for doing so much to propagate it in the East Indies , we should sluggishly suffer America and the Indies to come so neer Whitehall , and so famous and Religious a City as this , to be ( to so great a number ) without any publick worship of God , while Mahometans are not quite without . Therefore to my great cost I preached neer a year over the Market-house at St. James's . And when the Informers began with me , and accused me to the Justices of meeting contrary to the Act against Conventicles , I gave my Reasons to some Justices , and others , in word and writing , to prove that neither I , nor such others , might be judged breakers of that Act , because we did not meet to worship God with any other manner of Worship than what is according to the Liturgy and Practice of the Church of England ▪ For though we did not so much as they , we did nothing but what they do : For we did but Read the Scriptures , Pray freely in the Pulpit , and Preach the Christian Doctrine ; and all this the Church of England doth : And though I did not read my self , but another did it , it was because I was not able , which if I were , I would do it . And expecting quickly to have the Cause come to a Tryal , I wrote the sum of this in a Paper , and read it openly , and then gave it the Clerk , that none might misreport me : And though some able and pious Lawyers that perused my large Reasons , thought that they were very useful for others as well as me , yet the noise and murmuring of some Women first , and such as Mr. Danvers after , sent abroad my Reproaches for it through City and Countrey , with so many false additions , and so much displeasure , as added somewhat to my former knowledge of the difference between Sectarian and Christian Zeal . Surely these men do think themselves very grear haters of sin , who would render that man odious as a heynous sinner , who doth but speak those words to vindicate himself and others from the accusation of Informers , which he verily believeth to be true and useful : when a man hath for about fourteen years , not only preached without pay , but at many score pounds a year charges ; when he hath never taken away one of their Communicants from any Parochial , or Non-conformists Church , nor meddled with either Sacrament , nor ever set up his own preaching against theirs , but desired to preach to a few of those many thousands that have none at all , nor have any publick worship of God , no not so much as the reading of the Liturgy ; and when for endeavouring this in languishing and pains , by great charge and labour , his utter ruine , if not death , shall be unreconcileably endeavoured by one party , and for not hateing that which is good in the Liturgy as much as they , or upon every surmise of a diseased brain , shall become the common obloquy of another , ( the Sectarians , and the Women that are infected by their disease : ) Reader , judge whether the true belief of Gods acceptance , and better than the Hypocrites reward , be not necessary to keep such a one from imitating Jonas , and quietly leaving men to their beloved ignorance and sin ? and whether , if we had not many soberer men between them , that are for neither of the extreams , it would not be harder preaching in England than in America ? Yet with most hearty thanks to God , I must say , that notwithstanding the opposition of both these extreams , God hath abundantly sweetned his service to me ; by the ready reception and profit of such people , as men so much labour to keep in darkness . I speak all this with reference to Mr. Danvers his following words also of my preaching in the Parish Churches . The foresaid paper of mine he published in his last Book , as matter of Accusation ; and did it , according to his custome , falsely : I briefly mentioned his falsification : He now Printeth that Copy as received from his Bookseller , in one Column , and on the other , another , called [ The Copy obtained from the Original . ] to shew that there is but two words difference that is , His Copy spake of my Reading the Liturgy , and mine spake of my own Reading what my Assistant read ( the Scripture . ) But 1. If this be all one with him , are we not so to judge of his other Expositions ? I know one whose oversight in writing usually lyeth in leaving out [ not ] and [ un . ] and what is one Syllable ? The Kings Printer , who as Dr. Heylin saith , was Fined in the Star-chamber for Printing [ Thou shalt commit Adultery . ] left out but one poor syllable . But he did not justifie it as Mr. Danvers doth . 2. If it be his excuse to lay the Copy on his Bookseller , may we not take it also for his answer , that all the untruths that he hath said of the Novations , Donatists , Brittains , Augustine , &c. he had them from — some body of as great authority as his Bookseller ; and then all 's well . 3. But , Reader , dost thou not expect that at least he should now say true after so much warning , and that this should be a true Copy which he saith , without exception , is [ obtained from the Original . ] I assure thee on the word of a Christian , it is yet so far from being true , that divers lines , even a considerable part of the writing is left out . Take heed therefore to thy belief hereafter . Believe not every Spirit , nor every man that raileth at others as less wise or spiritual than he ; what wonder if he untruly tell us of the opinion of whole parties , Novatians , Donatists , &c. and tell us of whole Books that have not one word of what he affirmeth , but somewhat for the contrary , when he will not only falsifie my own writing , even a few lines , but defend his so doing against my self that have the Copy by me , and that by a greater falshood than the first . Are this mans Citations to be credited ? Yet he goeth on and averteth that [ there is not another Syllable different ] And he will prove moreover , that ▪ If I meet not on pretense of any Religious exercise in other manner , &c. I must accordingly read the Common-prayer my self . Answer , So said the Informers , but were I at the Sessions upon my Appeal , I would be bold to deny it , and to say that he that saith but the Lords Prayer , doth not use another manner of Worship than the Church ? and that to do less , is not to do that which is of another manner . But if I mistake in so thinking , it followeth not that I prevaricate , or mean dishonestly , as he insinuateth . But if he want more matter of Reproach , or any such as he , I will voluntarily give him more , so careless am I of such Censures : I do therefore tell him that I am no greater an Adversary to the Liturgy than were the old Non-conformists , Mr. Hildersham , who perswadeth men to come to the beginning of it ; Mr. Knewstubs that constantly read much of it ; Mr. Ball , that wrote the Tryal of Separation ; Mr. Bradshaw , Mr. Paget , Mr. Gifford , and such others that did the like : And that , as before the Wars , when I was accounted a Non-conformist , I did ( at Bridgnorth ) usually read most of the Lords dayes part of the Liturgy , ( and as in 1660. the Ministers of London consented so to do ) to would I do again , on the same terms : And that if my Nonconformity did consist only in the contrary , I should have little reason to blame the Conformists for the sharp Censures which they write against me . He keepeth constantly in his way , and addeth [ — It is confidently affirmed by some , that Mr B. hath lately in Hartfordshire or Buckinghamshire , in order to obtain the Pulpit ( where he several times Preached in publick ) read the Common prayer , or at least some part of it , out of the Service book . ] Answ . 1. Who is it that this man converseth with whose confident reports he published ? Are his Reporters infected with his Disease ? 2. Why doth he Print this confident Report if not to be believed ? And if so , alas , will he put no bounds to this sin , while he thinks that he cryeth down our sin ? I thank God for my time , strength and liberty , I did preach fourteen times in several Parish Churches of those Counties , after thirteen years exclusion from the Pulpits of such Churches ; and it is not in the power of this mans pen to make me repent of it . But in all those times , I never read either one word of Common-prayer , nor one Chapter or Psalm , save once , when I Preached where there was no one to Read , I read the Scripture as I would have done at home . Will not the presence of thousands of witnesses secure a man from the forgery of any unnamed Slanderer ? No , it will not : As after our Savoy Conference untruths were Printed against me , contrary to the most notorious evidence of Writings and Witnesses ; so sometimes where I Preach in London , it is not the multitude of Witnesses that secureth me from the gross false reports of this kind of Auditors , ( who have not so much kindness for their own souls as either to stay away , or forbear their untruths . ) No wonder then if witnesses at 26 years , or 26 miles distance , or neer , be no security against such a one as Mr. Danvers , or his confident Reporters . He adds , [ Though it is also said that he hath obtained that publick liberty by vertue of a License he hath from the Arch Bishop of Canterbury : But whether it be one formerly granted by him , when the Bishop of London before the Act of Conformity , ( when by the Bishop of Worcester he was Silenced in those parts ) or since is worthy inquiry ? Answ . It 's like you have enquired , and found that it was the former ; if not , I tell you now : But to some it is almost as hard to believe a Truth that is against their Spleen , as to speak it . He next saith , as the Exposition of my Sufferings , [ viz. To fly from his place and Charge , if not to avoid the Cross of Christ , and to shun a suffering Witness when so loudly call'd thereto ] Answ . 1. Did you hear his case , or do you judge before you hear it ? 2. These Passages are too conformable to the rest . How prove you that it was a flight ? How prove you that it was from my Charge ? ( Reader , it is fifteen years since I had any Charge , of any one Congregation , more than over the rest of the Land , unless my dwelling made my Neighbours become my Charge ? I had no Charge of any but my Family there , unless my great Charge in Preaching to them for nothing , and paying assistant , &c. and building a place in hope of more such Labour , made them my Charge ? And if I give an hundred pounds to one man , when I owed him no more than others , doth that make him for the future become my Charge ? ) And how proveth he that I was lowdly called to suffer ? Or that it was the Cross of Christ that I avoided ? This man is against dictating ! I would he were more against untruths ! My Sufferings have been enough to shew what men are that procured them , but to me so small , that except my restraint from Preaching , I account them not worthy of the name of the Cross . But yet I will hope that he will so far suspend his Custome , as not to say , that any Sectarian Preacher in England , Anabaptist or Separatist , ( to go no farther ) that lost not his Life , hath lost more of the World , by his meer Non-conformity , than I have done ? He sends my Conscience here to divers Scriptures , 2 Cor. 6. 4 , 5 , 6. Acts 20. 11 , 12 , 13. Mat. 10. 38 , 39. John 10. 12 , 13. Mat. 23. 2 , 3 , 4. I am willinger to hear these Texts than him . I suppose he meaneth not those that I before minded Mr. Hutchinson of , of Christs early flight into Aegypt , or his oft avoiding the Jews , in Nazareth , and other parts of Galile , the Wilderness , &c. nor his , bidding us when Persecuted in one City flee to another ; nor Pauls being let down the Wall by a Basket ; nor the scattering of the Disciples , by the Persecution at Jerusalem , nor Pauls Circumcising Timothy , non his shaving his Head for his Vow , nor his Appeal from the Jews to Caesar , nor his crying out that he was a Pharisee , nor his denying that he had done any thing against the Temple or the Law , nor any such like . And if he condemn Christ and Paul it will be no suffering to them . The first Text tells us that Paul in much Patience bare Afflictions , Necessities , Distresses , Stripes , Imprisonments , &c. Answ . What thence ? Is it Ergo R. B. did ill to come out of the Goal when he was put in ? Or that he did ill not to put himself in again ? Did Paul sin for not scourging and imprisoning himself ? The next Text speaketh of Pauls Preaching till midnight ? Ergo R. B. should not Preach in the Summer in the Country ? I deny the Consequence . It may be he meant Acts 21. 13. Paul was ready to be bound or die at Jerusalem ! What thence ? Ergo he sinned in avoiding suffering oft before ? Or , Ergo R. B. should not have gone into the Countrey either for Health or Preaching ; yea if it had been in case of danger to have Preached to many instead of fewer that had often heard him ? I deny the Consequence . The next Text tells us that we must take up our Cross and follow Christ , &c. And what thence ? Ergo we must make our own Cross , and take up that instead of Christs ? Or , Ergo , Christ sinned in avoiding the Cross so oft before ? Or , Ergo , R. B. must go into a Prison that he may give over Preaching the Gospel ? I deny all these . What kin are they to the Text ? Have all the Anabaptists and Separatists lived all this while in sin , that lived out of Prison ? or that have had maintenance and quietness , while R. B. hath been laid in the common Goal , and hunted by one sort , and reviled by the other ? Why will not the persecution of your Pen or Tongue prove a comfortable suffering for the Truth , as well as if I pleased your Spleen in preferring a chosen Prison before a Pulpit ? The next Text tells us , that the Hireling deserts the Sheep by fleeing . Thus the Quakers also talk to me when they call me Hireling . But , Sir , I am not so much as a Hireling ? much less the owner of the Sheep ? I would I knew which of these two you judge your selves to be ? for my part I am neither . Christ is the Owner ? I am not so much as the Pastor of any Flock : And ( that I may not discourage your contempt , I add ) nor ever , that I remember , called to be such these 13 or 14 years : Nor have I so long taken any Hire . And did Paul flee like a Hireling when he went from places of less liberty to other more commodious places to Preach ? Did not Pain , Weakness , and want of Money for so chargeable a work disable me , my Conscience would command me ( by the motive of Experience ) to go about Preaching from place to place , though every d●g in the streets where I pass , should bark nothing but [ Hireling , Hireling . ] The last Text is against Separation ; The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses his seat ; all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe , that observe and do , but do not ye after their works , for they say and de not , for they bind heavy burdens , and grievous to be borne , &c. And what from hence ? Ergo I should not Preach in the Parish Churches ? Or is it , Ergo I should have bound heavy burdens for my self ? Or is it , that I should not ●ave made such for others ? This is the likest sense ; f●r the best way of expounding Authors is by similar passages . And were not this an untruth it would be non-conformable to the rest aforesaid . But ( saith he ) is not this a strange Paradoxe that he should suffer at the rate for a Non-conformist at London , and yet act the part of a Conformist to so high a degree in the Countrey ? Answ . This is very conformable to the rest . To Preach in the Parish Churches ( for his story of Reading the Common Prayer is like his Books ) is the high degree of Conformity . This is expository . I now perceive what it is in me to be [ for Conformity and against it , for Popery and against it , for Arminianism and against it , ] as he saith . The equivocation maketh all true . I am for the Conformity , and the Popery , and the Arminianism of Preaching Christs Gospel in Parish Churches ( which the Papists say they sometime said Mass in ) and for the Conformity and Popery of Infants part in the Covenant of God , for their Baptism , and for the reading of Gods Word , for the Creed , the Lords Prayer , and the ten Commandments ; and for the Love of Brethren , and the Unity , Peace and Concord of Christs Church ; however I be against that which the world commonly knoweth by the name of Conformity and Popery . O what a high degree of Conformity did the old Non-conformists exercise in this mans sense ! I have lived long to little purpose it such a man by the bare names of Conformity , Popery , or Arminianism can frighten me out of my Christianity , my Honesty , my Charity , my Min●stry , and my Wits . Next relating my story with more caution than usual [ with an [ If I be not misinformed : ] ( O that this sentence had been twice or thrice in every page of his Books ) with some truth , some mistake , and more omission , he subjoyneth , that [ by Proxie ( that 's his fiction ) I suffer Imprisonment for a Non-conformist in London , and in person out doe all the Non-conformists by his publick Preaching in the Countrey as a Conformist . ] Answ . 1. Reader , by this you may see at what rates we Ministers must do our Masters work . Woe to us if we Preach not : And if we do , one sort Imprison us , and seek our Ruine ; and the other Revile us , as if our greatest Duty were our greatest sin . 2. You see what abundance of Enemies the Preaching of the Gospel hath , when Satan can stir up such men of Zeal to take it for a Crime . Paul might Preach even in the Jews Synagogue : I must not in a Parish Church . 3. You see how certain it is that the two Extreams are much of the same Spirit , and that they that most cry out against Persecution are oft of a persecuting mind , when such men as this would silence us , or have us give over Preaching to the multitude that most need it , as well as others . And so would the Quakers . 4. You see what they mean that cry down a Comprehension : They would not have us Preach in the Parish Churches to the needy multitude , unless they may have all first altered according to their desire . Thus W Pen called me cruel for desirng a Comprehension as leaving the Quakers to the Dogs : so that they would have us all silenced , even by those Impositions which they themselves account sinful , till they and all such have their will. 5 You see here what a Reproach these men would bring on Non-conformity , and what strong Invitations they give men to Conform , by making Conformity to be Preaching in Parish Churches . 6. Or you see what need you have instead of disputing longer with such men , to pray God to give them tenderer Cnnsciences , that may fear to multiply Untruths , which thousands of Witnesses , ( of whom some were Anabaptists and of other Sects ) are ready to confute . Especially to Pray that the Churches , and the peoples souls may be delivered from such as would not only Unchurch all mankind till they come to age , but make it a sinful Conformity than to Preach the Gospel in the Parish Churches . FINIS .