Second remarks upon An essay concerning humane understanding in a letter address'd to the author, being a vindication of the first remarks against the answer of Mr. Lock, at the end of his reply to the Lord Bishop of Worcester. Burnet, Thomas, 1635?-1715. 1697 Approx. 40 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 17 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2003-01 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A30485 Wing B5946 ESTC R20232 12259067 ocm 12259067 57739 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A30485) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 57739) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 175:3) Second remarks upon An essay concerning humane understanding in a letter address'd to the author, being a vindication of the first remarks against the answer of Mr. Lock, at the end of his reply to the Lord Bishop of Worcester. Burnet, Thomas, 1635?-1715. [2], 30 p. Printed for M. Wotton ..., London : 1697. Attributed to T. Burnet. Cf. BM. Reproduction of original in Yale University Library. Marginal notes. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Locke, John, 1632-1704. -- Essay concerning human understanding. Burnet, Thomas, 1635?-1715. -- Remarks upon An essay concerning human understanding. Locke, John, 1632-1704. -- Mr. Locke's reply to the ... Bishop of Worcester's answer to his letter concerning ... Mr. Locke's Essay of human understanding. Knowledge, Theory of -- Early works to 1800. 2002-06 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2002-07 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2002-08 John Latta Sampled and proofread 2002-08 John Latta Text and markup reviewed and edited 2002-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion SECOND REMARKS UPON AN ESSAY CONCERNING Humane Understanding , IN A LETTER address'd to the AUTHOR . BEING A Vindication of the First Remarks , AGAINST THE ANSWER OF Mr. LOCK , At the End of His REPLY to the LORD BISHOP of WORCESTER . LONDON , Printed for M. Wotton , at the Three Daggers in Fleet-street . 1697. The Occasional Paper will be continu'd next Term. SECOND REMARKS UPON AN ESSAY CONCERNING Humane Understanding , In a LETTER address'd to the Author . SIR , AT the End of your Reply to the Lord Bishop of Worcester , I have met with your Answer , as you are pleas'd to call it , to my short Remarks upon your Essay , and am very much surpriz'd to find it writ in such an angry Style , and with such undeserved and ill-grounded Reflections . I writ to you with Civility and Respect , and I dare appeal to any Gentleman , if there be any thing unbecoming or provoking in the Style or Expressions of my Letter . If you made a false Surmise to your self , that a Storm was coming , as you phrase it , and a Design hatching to run down your Book ; As there is no Storm , I 'm sure , in my Letter , but every Line calm and peaceable , so I protest I never heard of any such Design , never had Communication with any , about the confuting or opposing your Book : And as to these Two short Papers of Remarks , 'T is more than I know if any Person in the World ( besides my self ) knows me to be the Writer of them . So far was I from designing any thing by them but my own Satisfaction , and to know the true State of Your Principles , that I might the better judge of their Truth , and of their Consequences . And whereas you say , If it was for my own Information , what need of putting my Doubts in Print ? I thought that the best way , that your Answer might give Satisfaction to others ( as well as to me ) who probably might have the same or like Scruples . And as to your self , I thought I had done you a Kindness , by giving you an Opportunity of explaining or vindicating some of your Principles , which were likely , I thought , to fall under the Censure of Inquisitive Persons . Then , as to the Crime of concealing my Name , which is another thing objected , I think , of all Men I know , Mr. Lock had the least Reason to make that Criminal , He , who hath writ so many Books without putting his Name to them , and some in confutation of the Principles of other Men. Turpe est Censori , cùm — But you have invented a strange Reason for my concealing my Name , with a black Accusation contain'd in it , In these Words : I cannot much blame him in another respect , for concealing his Name . For , I think , any one who appears amongst Christians , may be well asham'd of his Name , when be raises such a Doubt as this , viz. Whether an infinitely Powerful and Wise Being , be Veracious or no ? unless Falshood be in such reputation with this Gentleman , that he concludes Lying to be no Mark of Weakness and Folly. This Insinuation is the more inexcusable , because to bring it in , you have misrepresented and perverted the Sense of the Author . The Question there is not , Whether God be Veracious ? but , Whether , according to your Principles , he can be prov'd to be so ? The Reflection which falls upon your Principles onely , you would have thrown upon God , and very unjustly suppose that the Remarker calls in question the Divine Veracity , whereas he onely calls in question the Truth of your Principles : which , I think , is a very different thing from the Divine Veracity . In the Pages you cite , the Remarker says , Veracity , according to His Principles , may be prov'd to belong to the Divine Nature , as being a Perfection ; but tells you at the same time , that you make no use of that Argument , nor vouchsafe to give us any Account or Idea of Perfection , tho' you do of many other Terms and Notions of less importance . You may see by this , that Falshood and Lying ( as your gross Words are ) are not in reputation with this Gentleman , seeing he looks upon them as Imperfections inconsistent with the Divine Nature . Now let every impartial Reader judge , whether there is less of the Christian in the first Objection , or in the pretended Answer ; and whether of these two Persons hath more reason to be ashamed . You add in the same Place , that you have more than once Spoke of the Goodness of God , another Evidence of his Veracity . Be it so ; But where have you prov'd the Divine Goodness ? Or how can it be prov'd , from your Principles ? The Question is not , as I told you before , Whether God be Good and Veracious , &c. nor whether you think so , ( for I do not enter into your Thoughts ) but onely , Whether you have prov'd these Attributes , or laid down any Principles by which they may be prov'd . Next , you proceed to what concerns the Mathematical Demonstration of Morality : where I desired to know how it could be founded on your Principles . In answer to this , you tell me , my Judgment does not seem of that Consequence , that any one should be in haste to gratifie my Impatience . Sir , I did not presume to desire to know the full Systems of your Morality , but the Basis up on which you would build it : And you having declar'd more than once , That from Grounds and Principles laid down in your Book , Morality might be Mathematically demonstrated , I thought it would give no offence to enquire which Ground or Principle you pitcht upon for your Foundation . I thought , I say , That would have given no offence , especially seeing I was willing to suppose , That 't was not the deficiency of your Principles , but my own short-sightedness , that made me at a loss . But however , if this Enquiry , how modestly soever propos'd , be look'd upon by you as presumptuous , I beg your Pardon , if that will satisfie at present ; And we shall have occasion hereafter to speak more at large concerning the Grounds of Morality ; where , tho' you be so reserv'd in declaring yours , I shall not be so in declaring mine . After this , you make a Remark upon what I had said concerning the Knowledge of our Duty , and concerning the Grounds of the Divine Law : And you express it in these Words ; And since he thinks the illiterate part of Mankind ( which is the greatest ) must have a more compendious way to know their Duty , than by long Deductions , ( you should have said , long and obscure Deductions , if you had truly taken the Words of the Author ) He may do well to consider , whether it were for their sakes he publish'd this Question , viz. What is the Reason and Ground of the Divine Law ? I suppose this is mentioned as containing something inconsistent or incongruous ; but I see no such thing in the Words cited . May not the illiterate part of Mankind know their Duty by Natural Conscience , and the Revealed Law of God , and yet that Divine Law have a Reason or Ground ? I can see no interfering in this , nor any Incongruity . But this is a gentle Reprimand or ( intended ) Reflexion upon me , in comparison of the next , which flies as high as the imputation of Malice and Ignorance ; in these Words : A Man that insinuates , as he does , as if I held , that the distinction of Vertue and Vice was to be picked up by our Eyes , our Ears , or our Nostrils , shews so much Ignorance , or so much Malice , that he deserves no other Answer but Pity . Malice and Ignorance ! These are such vulgar Topicks of Railing amongst angry and ill-bred Writers , that methinks it should be below the Genius of a Gentleman and a Philosopher , to make use of them . Do you find these hard Words in the Writing you criticize ? I know that is no Rule to you ; but however , the World will consider these things ( whether you will or no ) to judge of the Temper of a Person , who treats another at this rate , that us'd him with Respect , and in civil Language . But let us consider the Matter it self . You call this an Insinuation of mine , not a thing directly exprest ; and you have reason for this diminution of it : But this also will make it more difficult to find out the particular Passage you understand here . The first Passage in the Paragraph to which I suppose you refer , is this : Your general Principle of picking up all our Knowledge from our Five Senses , I confess , does not sit easily in my Thoughts , tho' you join Reflexion to help us . Now if this be the Sentence you mean , surely you ought not to have omitted Reflexion , and to have charg'd this only upon the Five Senses , which you see I do not . There is another Sentence in the same Paragraph , which possibly you may refer to ; and 't is this : As to Morality , we think the great Foundation of it is , The Distinction of Good and Evil , Vertue and Vice , Turpis & Honesti , as they are usually call'd : and I do not find that my Eyes , Ears , Nostrils , or any other outward Sense , make any Distinction of these Things , as they do of Sounds , Colours , Scents , and other outward Objects ; nor from any Idea taken in from them or from their Reports , am I conscious that I do or can conclude , that there is such a Distinction in the Nature of Things . In these two Passages I though I had taken in enough to comprehend your Sensation and Reflexion , which you make the Principles of all our Knowledge , Natural or Moral , and consequently of the Distinction of Good and Evil , Vertue and Vice. But we shall see further into this Matter , and into your Sense , when you have further explain'd your Moral Notions , and let us see what you make Vertue and Vice , Good and Evil to be , according to your way . But I must not forget to speak a few Words to the Charge it self , Malice and Ignorance . Malice is against a Person : Now God knows , I never had either Malice or Envy against your Person : And whosoever reads that Paper of Remarks , I believe , will think so ; for 't is writ in a courteous Style , and with favourable Expressions to you , from first to last . As to the Imputation of Ignorance , I am not so much concern'd to clear my self in that Point . If it be my Ignorance in general that you pity , I acknowledge your Kindness , and own your Pity well plac't : But if it be my Ignorance of your Principles that you pity , as it seems to be , That may be a Weakness in me , I confess , but I hope no mortal Sin , nor any thing that requires much pity . But however , if you pity my Ignorance of your Principles , and yet will not instruct me in them , nor help me when I beg your Charity , that Pity is but a Mock-pity , and deserves no Thanks . Now we come to the last Head of Inquiries you are pleas'd to take notice of , The Immortality of the Soul. And for a Proof of this , you refer me ( whether ludicrously and sarcastically , or no , you best know ) to the Lord Bishop of Worcester's Arguments , taken from your Principles . Then you add , But if that will not serve his turn , I will tell him a Principle of mine that will clear it to him ; and that is , The Revelation of Life and Immortality by Jesus Christ through the Gospel . I write it Immortality , for so I know it was intended ; tho' , by an unlucky slip of the Press , 't is printed there Immorality . The Revelation of the Gospel is no doubt an happy Confirmation of the Immortality of the Soul ; but we are speaking of Proofs to be made by the Light of Nature , and particularly by the Principles of Humane Understanding , as you have represented them . And before you make use of Revelation in this Point , you should resolve the other Point objected to you , viz. How you can prove the Truth of Revealed Religion , according to your Principles . Sir , I have now done with your Answer , as you call it ; but I can find neither Answer nor Explication in it to those Doubts I proposed . You may have some particular Reasons for that , which you best know : But I know no good Reason you can have for writing in such a snappish and peevish way . If you affect the Character of a Captious Disputant , I do not envy it you , I think you have taken the ready way to gain it , by your way of Writing , both here and elsewhere . If you have been so treated by other Pens , as to make you angry and out of humour , you ought not to take your Revenge , or ease your Spleen upon an inoffensive Pen : And you will be less pitied , when roughly handled by others , if you treat them rudely that treated you civilly . There is nothing , I 'm sure , in my Words or Expressions that could offend you : It must be in the Sense , by touching , it may be , upon some tender Parts of your Essay , that would not bear pressing without giving Pain . If you concluded ' with your self , that the Writer of those Remarks was some mean contemptible Thing , with whom you were not bound to observe the Measures of common Civility ; yet methinks , even in that Case , it had been better to have wholly neglected a Person of whom you had such an Idea , than to have given an Answer without giving any Satisfaction to his Doubts , or any Vindication of your Principles . As to the Storm you speak of , preparing against you , I know nothing of it , as I told you before ; yet I can blame none that desire such Principles of Humane Understanding as may give them Proofs and Security against such a system as this , Cogitant Matter , a Mortal Soul , a Manichean God ( or a God without Moral Attributes , ) and an Arbitrary Law of Good and Evil. How far your Principles are concern'd in these Things , or lead to Scepticism in these and other material Points , is left to your Consideration . This however I know , The ready way to prevent any such Storm , is to give such a plain Explication of your Principles , without Art or Chicane , as may cure and remove any Fears of this Nature . After all , notwithstanding this imperfect and angry Answer , I will not be discourag'd from solliciting once more a further Explication of your Principles upon the Three grand Points , The Immortality of the Soul , Natural Religion , and Reveal'd Religion . And whereas you seem to say , Those that do not like your Principles , or think them false or defective , let them find out better : We cannot tell how good or how bad , how full or defective your Principles are , till we know the true State of them , and their Consequences , in reference to Moral Things : And for that reason we desire a further Explanation of them upon those Heads . I am apt to believe , many of your Readers , if not the generality , do not so far understand your Principles , as to see what Consequences they draw after them ; and possibly you did not reflect upon it your self . Your Readers may easily be amus'd in a Multitude of Names and Notions , and Signs of Notions : They 're led into a Wood of Idea's ( Simple and Complex , and Complex-collective ; Absolute , Relative , Real , or Phantastical , &c. ) and there they are lost ; pleasantly indeed , amongst Lights and Shades , and many pretty Landskips ; but they know not where they are , nor see to the end of the Wood. You know what Philosophers ( Ancient or Modern ) your Principles are said to imitate ; but I do not desire to make use of Names , one way or other , but to argue every thing fairly and upon the square , as far as Reason will go . And let those that are unconcern'd and impartial , judge what is fairly objected , what fairly answer'd , and what not . But if in these things , which concern Religion and Morality , you will give us no further Light or Answer , I may reasonably conclude , that I have not mistaken your Sense , and that I have truly calculated the Elevation of those Principles . Wherein , notwithstanding , I shall be always willing and desirous to be set right , if I have committed any Errour . But let us proceed to the Matters under debate . As to the Immortality of the Soul , In your Answer to the Lord Bishop of Worcester , you acknowledge the Deficiency or Limitation of your Principles as to the Proof of its Immateriality : but however , you do not freely tell us , what you make the Soul to be . You say indeed , 't is a Thinking Substance ; but so you say Matter may be made , for any thing you know . Then the Soul may be Mortal , for any thing you know , or any thing we know , by your Principles . Do you think the Soul to be a permanent Substance , distinct from the Body ? or a Modification or Power of the Body ? or Life onely ? or a certain Influence from without , acting in Matter so and so qualified , or in such and such Systems ? Which Dispositions or Systems , when they come to be dissolved or destroy'd , that Power ceases to act there ; either perishing , as a Flame when the Fewel is spent ; or returning to its Fountain , whatsoever it was . This Notion seems to me to suit best to the general Air of your Discourse about the Soul , and with several particular Passages relating to it . As when you make Cogitation in us to be like Motion in Matter , which receives its Motion from external Impression . And when you speak about the Sleep of the Soul , or the Suspension of Cogitation when we sleep ; the Body not being then receptive of the Thinking Influence . You say , the Soul hath no Extension , nor , at certain Fits , any Cogitation : What can the Soul be then , but a certain Power acting in the Body , when the Body is prepar'd for the exercise of it , and ceasing to act when the Body is indisposed ? But whether that be a Superiour Divine Power , distinct from Matter , as a vis movens ; or a Power fastned , I know not how , to the Body , or upon such and such Systems of Matter : Whether , I say , of these two Suppositions better agrees with your Doctrine , I cannot certainly tell ; but either of them destroys the Immortality of the Soul , upon the Dissolution of the Body . Furthermore , this seems to be the Supposition you go upon , when you question , whether a Man waking and sleeping ( without Thoughts ) be the same Man. If there be still , sleeping or waking , the same Soul , the same permanent Substance , I see no room for that Question or Doubt which you make ; and your making of it , would induce one to believe , that it is a Difficulty that arises to you particularly , and upon that Principle , That the Soul of Man is not a permanent and distinct Substance , but an extrinsick or intrinsick Power , that acts or is suspended according to the Disposition or Indispositions of the Body . Accordingly , I do not see by your Discourse , how St. Peter , suppose , at the Resurrection , will be the same Man , unless he have the same Body , or the same Organization of Parts ; tho' his Soul be the same , with the same Dispositions and Habits : Nor how our Saviour , now in Heaven , is the same Man that was crucified at Jerusalem ; or that He that was crucified at Jerusalem , is the same Man that will come again to judge the Quick and the Dead . But I do not love to walk in the dark , and therefore I refer these things to your further Explication , if you so please . Your Doctrine of the Soul seems to me obscure and ambiguous : Men write , I think , to be understood ; and I hope I may , without offence , use the same Sentence to you , which you have used to others , Si monvis intelligi , debes negligi . However if you please to let us into the Secret , if there be a Secret , I shall make no other use of it than to give it a fair and free Examination . I proceed now to another Difficulty in your Doctrine of the Soul , which I mentioned formerly . You think the Soul , when we are asleep , is without any Thoughts or Perceptions . I am still at a loss , I confess , how to frame any Idea of a thoughtless , senseless , lifeless Soul. This Carcase of a Soul I cannot understand : If it neither have Cogitation , nor Extension , as you suppose , what Being or manner of Being it hath , I am not able to comprehend . It must be a Substance , and a particular finite Substance , and yet without any Mode . If you say you have no Idea of it , why then do you affirm or introduce a new and unintelligible State of the Soul , whereof neither you , nor others , can have any Conception ? However , you ought to tell us , how you bring the Soul out of this unintelligible State. What Cause can you assign able to produce the first Thought at the end of this Sleep and Silence , in a total Ecclipse and intermission of Thinking ? Upon your Supposition , That all our Thoughts perish in sound Sleep ; and all Cogitation is extinct , we seem to have a new Soul every Morning . If a Flame be extinct , the same cannot return , but a new one may be made . If a Body cease to move , and come to perfect rest , the Motion it had cannot be restord , but a new Motion may be produc'd . If all Cogitation be extinct , all our Ideas are extinct , so far as they are Cogitations , and seated in the Soul : So we must have them new imprest ; we are , as it were , new born , and begin the World again . If you say , the Ideas remain in the Soul , in that State of Silence and Insensibility , and need only a new Excitation ; Why then , say I , may not Infants have innate Ideas ( which you so much oppose ) that want only Objects and Occasions to excite and actuate them , with a fit disposition of the Brain ? Sir , I am sorry my Apprehension should be so slow , or your Doctrine about the Soul so shaded and cover'd , that I cannot , without further Light , come to know your Meaning ; or , which I most desire , see how it is consistent with Reason and Nature . To gratifie your Readers with a clearer Explanation of your Principles in this Particular , seems to be a Debt due to them , which I shall take however as an Obligation : But if you be otherwise minded , for Reasons best known to your self , I shall use no further Entreaty or Importunity . Another Head wherein I desir'd your further Explication , was in reference to Reveal'd Religion ; that we may see what Ground we can have upon your Principles for the Certainty of it . If we cannot in your way be assur'd of the Immortality of the Soul by the Light of Nature , or by Revelation , you leave us no certain way to know it . Now if you do not make that Revelation certain in it self , it cannot make us certain of any thing . You seem therefore the more oblig'd to give good Proof of the Certainty of Reveal'd Religion , by how much you make the Assurance of our Immortality to depend upon its Testimony . I told you formerly , why I thought your Principles would not reach to the Proof of a Certainty in Reveal'd Religion ; namely , because they do not prove , nor give us Grounds whereupon we may prove the Moral Attributes of God ; upon which , and not upon Infinite Power and Knowledge only , depends the Satisfaction and Assurance we have of the Truth of a Revelation . The Divine Veracity is the particular Attribute upon which it mainly depends ; and that we think may be prov'd from the Divine Perfection : But you have given us no Idea of Perfection , unless you resolve it into Power ; whereof indeed you have given a large Account , but that will not reach and decide the Case in question . However , I will wait your Pleasure and Leisure , to see if you are minded to give us any more Instruction in this Particular . The truth is , There is a Passage in your late Reply to the Bishop of Worcester , ( p. 95 , 96. ) which would incline one to believe , That you think there is no Certainty in Reveal'd Religion , seeing you do not allow the Certainty of Faith , but look upon that Expression as Jargon , or next to Nonsense . To talk of the Certainty of Faith , say you , seems all one to me , as to talk of the Knowledge of Believing : A way of speaking not easie to me to understand . Faith , methinks , must either be Certain or Uncertain ; and if you refuse the one , you must take the other . But this , I suppose , with what follows there , will fall under the Examination and Censure of a better Pen : I will therefore insist no more upon it . I proceed now to the Third Head , That of Natural Religion and Morality . This you think is demonstrable from your Principles , Mathematically demonstrable . This indeed would be an happy Performance , and of great use to Mankind . But , I cannot discern from what sure Foundation , or in what Method you can make out this Demonstration . If you make Natural Religion and Morality to depend upon Future Rewards and Punishments , as I think you do , then they must depend upon the Immortality of the Soul ; And if they depend upon That , and that be only Probable by the Light of Nature , then neither can the other by the Light of Nature be Mathematically demonstrable . I should argue thus , If Morality stands upon Future Punishments and Rewards , and Future Punishments and Rewards stand upon the Immortality of the Soul , and the Immortality of the Soul be only Probable , then Morality cannot be Mathematically demonstrable . This is something like your Indian Comparison . If the Earth stand upon an Elephant , and the Elephant upon a Tortoise , then what supports the Tortoise ? Thus far we are clear ; There ought not , I 'm sure , be more in the Conclusion , than was in the Premises . You allow , I think , a Law of Nature , with or without Revelation ; a natural Conscience to distinguish Good and Evil , Virtue and Vice. This is generally understood by Morality and Natural Religion . And this Morality , if I understand you aright , is what you say is Demonstrable by your Principles . But if you use that Word Morality in another sense than what is generally understood by it in common Conversation , or by Ancient and Modern Authors , you ( who blame others so often for an uncertain use of Words ) ought to fix and declare your peculiar Signification of that Word , that we may know your Meaning . If by Morality you understand the Practical Precepts of the Christian Religion , who doubts but That Morality may be known clearly and evidently ? We have no need of your Mathematical Demonstration in That Case , if you mean onely that you can prove Morality from Scripture . Besides , if that were required , you must first give us a Demonstration of the Veracity of the Revealer from your Principles , before you can demonstrate Morality in this Sense . But if you understand Natural Morality , as others do ; We think , and say , you cannot give , by your Principles , a Demonstration of it . After all , Whatsoever you understand by Morality , you seem to ground your Demonstration upon Future Punishments and Rewards , and upon the arbitrary . Will of the Law giver : And I do not think these the first Grounds of Good and Evil , Vertue and Vice. I do not think they are constituted by Punishments and Rewards , nor by the Will of God onely , if you take that Will for an Arbitrury Power : And I 'll give my Reasons for it . If things were so , there would be no Fixt Notion of Holiness , and God might be the Author of Sin : I mean , of what we call Sin , and judge Sin , and for which Sinners are punisht . But in reality ( according to this Principle ) there is nothing Sin to this Almighty Being , nor any fixt Notion of Holiness . For if his Will be the Original Rule of Good and Evil , and that Will go by no Rule , there is no Rule of Sin to him : All things are Indifferent , till he declare This or That to be Sin , according to his Pleasure ; nor is there any Rule of Sin to us , but that Revealed Pleasure . This Consequence , I believe , will be granted , admitting the Supposition . But you will say , it may be , After God hath declar'd such and such Things to be Sin , they are so , and he cannot be the Author of them . And why not , I pray ? I desire to know , what binds him to his Word ? to this Order or Declaration he hath made ? It must be something antecedent to his Will , and , in that respect , superiour : Which if you allow , we have all we desire , An Original Standard for Sin and Holiness ; namely , the Divine Nature and Essential Perfections : A Law from which the Divine Will can never deviate ; nor we , without Sin , ever transgrefs . Then , on the other hand , as to Holiness , What Definition or Idea can you give us of it , according to this Principle ? Is Holiness onely a due Care and Concern for our Interest and Happiness , present and future ? That 's a good thing , and very necessary ; but 't is rather Prudence or Wisdom , than Holiness , in the proper Sense of the Word . Suppose then you say , Holiness is a Conformity to the Will of God : That also is very true ; for the Divine Will is never contrary to the Divine Nature : But this is not the Original Notion of Intrinsick Holiness , into which 't is ultimately resolv'd ; This is not the Archetype . Intrinsick Holiness is a Conformity to the Divine Nature , according to our Capacities ; being like to God , and Partakers of his Perfections , Pure as He is Pure , so far as the Measures of Humanity will permit . This , I think , is clear in Reason , and I m sure 't is confirm'd by good Authorities ; That of Revelation , and also that of the best esteem'd Philosophers that have writ about Morality . And furthermore , How can we know ( antecedently to Revelation ) what the Will of God is , or what he hath appointed to be Good or Evil , Sin or Holiness ? I say , How can you know this , if you do not know it from the immutable Nature of God , and the immutable Differences of Good and Evil ? And there will be the same Difficulty to know or ascertain Future Punishments and Rewards , without , or with a Revelation : For tho' you have a Revelation , if there be no immovable Rules of Good and Evil , Just and Unjust ; nor any fixt Rule of Right betwixt God and his Creatures , you can never be assur'd of Performance , whatsoever is promis'd or threatned . There may be a Reveal'd and a Secret Will , for any thing you know : And we may follow one , and the other be finally executed , according to a Secret Intention ; which will lay a Ground for an incurable Scepticism . But I have noted before , how these Principles , upon another account , render the whole Future State uncertain , and therefore prosecute it no further at present . I think you should tell us also , What is the Love of God ( the Fountain of Vertue and Piety ) according to your Principles ; and how it is distinguish'd from Self love : Which , in your way , it seems to be in the last Resolution of it . We love God ; but why ? Not for his sake , but for our own sake ; because he will reward our Love and Obedience . Without this Motive , you seem to leave no Argument to love Him , or Vertue , or Piety : We may fear and admire an Eternal , Almighty , All knowing Being : But if he have no other Attributes , as I do not find you have prov'd any more , you lay no Foundation for the Love of God , nor for the Love of Vertue and Piety . Those Verses express my Sense in this Particular : Oderunt peccare Mali , formidine poenae : Oderunt peccare Boni , virtutis amore . But your Principles turn the latter Verse another way ; Oderunt peccare Boni , mercedis amore . How , pray you , upon these Principles , do you preserve the Distinction ( that good old Distinction , which it may be you despise ) of Bonum Utile & Honestum ? In your way , either the Parts are coincident , or Bonum Utile is superior to Bonum Honestum . 'T is an open and free Saying of Tully's , but was always thought to have good Sense in it , Perspicuum est , nisi aequitas , fides , justitia , proficiscantur à naturâ , & si omnia haec ad utilitatem referantur , virum bonum non posse reperiri . Many , you know , of our best Authors in Morality have spoken things to the same sense . In like manner , the Distinction of Positive Laws , and Natural or Moral Laws , seems to be confounded , if you make both to depend upon the arbitrary Will of God. At least , these things need a further Explication , if , according to this new way , you make them both to have the same Ground and Measure . Give me leave to add one Consideration more : As the Reasons of Good and Evil , so likewise of True and False , seem to be unstable and unsettled , according to these Principles . For , if the Difference of True and False be immutable , or not determin'd by the arbitrary Will of God , I see no reason why we should not make the same Judgment as to the Difference of Good and Evil ; or why Moral Truths should not be as fixt and unalterable as any other . Let us take a Proposition in Mathematicks , and another in Morality : Suppose , in the former , That which is often made use of , that the Three Angles of a Triangle are equal to Two Right ones : And in Morals , that it is a wicked thing for a Man maliciously to kill his Friend , or his Father , or any innocent Person . The Truth of this seems to me as clear , eternal , and unalterable , as the other . There is a Rectitude and Obliquity in Actions , as well as in Lines , a Congruity or Incongruity . 'T is true , Moral Cases are commonly more Complex , and so not so easily stated ; but in those that are Simple and General , or clearly stated , Propositions about them are as certain as other Truths . In every Moral Action or Moral Case there is a Right and a Wrong , as much as every Number is Even or Odd , or every Line Straight or Crooked . And the Relations of Moral Things seem to me as necessary , as the Relations of Figures and Numbers . I am also apt to believe , That the Differences of Good and Evil , Just and Unjust , Turpis & Honesti , would be as sensible to us ( in Nature pure ) as Physical or Mathematical Differences ; as smeet and sowr , straight and crooked ; if Interest , Appetities , Passions , and Lusts did not deprave our Taste and Judgments in those Intellectual Things . Which Prejudices and brutish Inclinations take no place , you know , in Physical or Mathematical Speculations . Sir , If you please to let us know your Grounds of Morality ( Mathematically demonstrable ) as plainly as I have done mine , 't is all that I desire as to this Particular . And in all other things , I think , 't is enough to express our Thoughts clearly , with our Reasons for them . More is not needful amongst Persons that have no other Design than to find out Truth , by comparing the Opinions of others with their own , and weighing the Reasons on both sides . For a Man to attend to his own Thoughts and Conceptions , and the best Light he hath ; not to speak by roat , and blindly follow either new or receiv'd Opinions , is so far commendable . But whether his Principles and Conclusions are just , and proportionate to the Nature of Things , is a further Question , and must be left to Time and Trial. Every Man would be willing to know the Sense of the Authors that he reads , the State of their Principles with their Consequences ( especially as to Moral things ) that he might make a sure Judgment of them . I am sensible that when Men have a different Set of Ideas and First Principles , they may be easily mistaken in judging of one anothers Meaning , or in drawing Consequences from one anothers Principles : But that , methinks , ought to give no offence ; but rather to be gently rectified ( without ill Language ) by the Authors themselves , who best know their own Mind . And as I find that you say you are often at a loss in understanding the Lord Bishop of Worcester's Remarks upon some of your Notions , so I hope you will not think it strange if I am sometimes at a loss also how to understand your Writings ; which , we may reasonably presume , are not more clear , either as to Sense or Words . You tell me in your Answer , That I pretend to have writ that Letter to be inform'd : And so I did ; but withal gave you some Reasons for my Doubts . Will you not allow a Learner to desire his Master to explain himself , when he does not understand his Dictates ? and also to propose Objections , when his Teacher's Sense seems to him contrary to Reason ? We are taught by your self , not to give up our Assent to the Authority of others , without good Evidence ; and you make it one great Cause of Errour , To relie blindly upon the Opinions of others . I hope therefore I have obey'd your Precepts in this , as I am ready to do in all other things that are reasonable . I can truly and sincerly say , That I do not write out of any Spirit of Opposition , nor for any By-ends whatsoever ; but for my own Instruction and Satisfaction , and for the Discovery of Truth in those great Points . When I doubt of your Sense , if you please to direct me ; and when I make Objections , if you please to answer them , I have my Design ; and desire onely that the Merits of the Cause may be spoken to on either hand , without course Language , and Personal Reflexions , which , I think , is your own Advice . * In your Conclusion you tell me again of my Fault , in not setting my Name to my Paper , in these hard , Words ; To conclude , Were there nothing else in it , I should not think it fit to trouble my self about the Questions of a Man , which he himself does not think wortby owning . To which I answer , Tho' in some Cases I think the Sense is more impartially consider'd ( without Favour or Prejudice ) when the Author is unknown ; yet if that will satisfie you , Do you put your Name to all the Books and Pamphlets you have writ , and I will put my Name to this ; how unusual soever it is to put a Name to such small Papers . SIR , Your Humble Servant . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A30485-e160 Answ. p. 3. Pag. 4. Remarks , p. 5 Pag. 4. Pag. 5. Pag. 5 , 6. Pag. 74 , 75. Effay , p. 44. Pag. 68 . fect . 10. P. 44 , 45. & Lib. 2. c. 27. Pag. 180. sect . 6. Pag. 272. P. 17. sect . 5 , 6. P. 192. sect . 5. P. 86. sect . 19. P. 197. sect . 2. De fin . Bon. & Mal. c. 18 . Pag. 2. Essay , p. 405. sect . 17. * No bodies Notions , I think , are the better or truer , for ill-manners joined with them ; and I conclude , your Lordship , who so well knows the different Cast of Mens Heads , and of the Opinions that possess them , will not think it ill Manners in any one , if his Notions differ from your Lordship's , and that he owns that Difference , and explains the Grounds of it as well as be can : I have always thought , that Truth and Knowledge , by the ill and over-eager Management of Controversies , lose a great deal of the Advantages they might receive from the Variety of Conceptions there is in Mens Understandings . Could the Heats , and Passions , and ill Language be left out of them , they would afford great Improvements to those who could separate them from By-interests and Personal Prejudices . Answer to the Bishop of Worcester , p. 222.