The smoke in the temple wherein is a designe for peace and reconciliation of believers of the several opinions of these times about ordinances, to a forbearance of each other in love, and meeknesse, and humility : with the opening of each opinion, and upon what Scriptures each is grounded ... : with one argument for liberty of conscience from the national covenant ... : with a full answer to Master Ley ... against my late New-Quere ... / by John Saltmarsh. Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A61133 of text R25538 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing S499). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 281 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 49 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A61133 Wing S499 ESTC R25538 09011663 ocm 09011663 42211 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A61133) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 42211) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1293:24) The smoke in the temple wherein is a designe for peace and reconciliation of believers of the several opinions of these times about ordinances, to a forbearance of each other in love, and meeknesse, and humility : with the opening of each opinion, and upon what Scriptures each is grounded ... : with one argument for liberty of conscience from the national covenant ... : with a full answer to Master Ley ... against my late New-Quere ... / by John Saltmarsh. Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A61133 of text R25538 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing S499). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread 94 p. in various pagings. Printed by Ruth Raworth for G. Calvert, London : 1646. Reproduction of original in the British Library. eng Ley, John, 1583-1662. -- New quere and determination upon it. Presbyterian Church -- Government. A61133 R25538 (Wing S499). civilwar no The smoke in the temple. Wherein is a designe for peace and reconciliation of believers of the several opinions of these times about ordinan Saltmarsh, John 1646 44775 75 5 0 0 0 0 18 C The rate of 18 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2005-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2006-03 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-04 Ali Jakobson Sampled and proofread 2007-04 Ali Jakobson Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion The Smoke in the Temple . WHEREIN IS A DESIGNE FOR PEACE and RECONCILIATION of Believers of the several OPINIONS of these Times about ORDINANCES , to a Forbearance of each other in Love , and Meeknesse , and Humility . With the opening of each Opinion , and upon what SCRIPTURES each is grounded . With the several EXCEPTIONS which may be made against each Opinion from the SCRIPTURES . With one Argument for Liberty of Conscience , from the NATIONAL COVENANT . With another Argument to prove the Gospel , or New Testament of Jesus Christ the very Word of God ; Tendred to all the Beleevers , to shew them how little we have attained , and that there is a more glorious Fulnesse to be revealed . With a Discovery of the Antichristian way of Peace , &c. for Opinions . With a full Answer to Master LEY One of the Assembly of Divines , against my late NEW-QUERE . With some spiritual Principles drawn forth of the Controversie . Revel. 15.8 . And the Temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God , and from his power : and no man was able to enter into the Temple till the seven plagues of the seven Angels were fulfilled . By John Saltmarsh , Preacher of the Gospel at Brasteed in Kent . THE SECOND EDITION CORRECTED . London , Printed by Ruth Raworth for G. Calvert , at the signe of the Black Spread-Eagle at the West-end of Pauls . 1646. To the Right Honourable the Lord Vicount SAY and SEALE , and Lieutenant General CROMWEL . Noble Patriots , IF I mistake not , you may here single out something of the Lords from what is mine , and discern some beams of God amongst many things of man . I know the candle of the Lord cannot shine anywhere with more snuff then in me ; however since the Lord hath lighted it , I dare not but let it shine ( or rather glimmer ) before men . I have writ your Names to my Book that I may be one of your Remembrancers amongst the rest to the advancement of Truth ; not but that they who know ye , know ye to be acted by a Spirit of Truth in your selves . The Lord remember ye according to all the good ye have done ( in your several Ministrations ) to this people ; and do that for ye which gives you most , and yet takes most from ye , even filling ye with himself , till he hath emptyed ye of all but his own glory , and gathered ye up into the fulnesse and righteousnesse of himself in Christ , where we are onely nothing in our selves , and every thing in him ; and surely the most , and best , and greatest thing he can do for the sons of men , is , thus to make them nothing in their own account , that he that glorieth may glory in the Lord . I may seem strange to wish ye thus ; but I know it is not strange to ye , who know the Mystery of the Spirit , and of Christ . My Lord , and Sir , Go on still , yet still laying your designes in a glory above that of States and Kingdoms , and involving all your counsels there , where there is most of Heaven , and lest of the World . So prays Your Servant in the Lord JOHN SALTMARSH . To the Beleevers of several Opinions for outward Ordinances or dispensations , scandalously called Independents , Presbyterians , Anabaptists , Seekers . Brethren , I Have fairly set down how far each of you have attained in the Mystery of Truth ; and surely we are all short of the glory which shall be revealed in the Temple or Church of God ; and there are such clouds rolling about each opinion , that may darken it , or something of it . So as things are not so clear as they are commonly taken by each of us ; If any man think he knoweth any thing , he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know . So as the common ignorance and infirmitie amongst us , may be a rise for a common Vnitie amongst us : and seeing we all come out of Babylon ( though in several wayes ) to the glorious Temple or Tabernacle which God hath sent down to be with men , and walk thus diversly thither ; yet our several and distinct goings are but like so many Travellers to the Citie of London ; some travel from the North , some from the South , and from the West , some from the East , yet all thither ; though too , there may be some mistaking of the way in each , because of the little light that is abroad . The gathering of the Saints into the Heaven , or Kingdom below , in this day of Revelation , is like the gathering at the last day , which shall be all into one glorious Body , though the gathering shall be from the four winds or ends of the Earth , by the several Trumpets or Angels . One thing I have more . Let us seek for the Spirit of wisdom and revelation , to open to us the Mystery of the Scriptures called The Revelation ; for in that Book is the Prophecie of the Churches laid up , and the seasons and times for Truth revealed . Let us search and seek out by the Spirit of Jesus , even that Jesus which was in the Vision , and gave it out to John ; for there is none found worthy to open the Book with Seals but the Lamb . Surely in the Mystery of Angels , Vials , Sea of glasse with fire , Temple with Smoke , the Angel with the everlasting Gospel , the Angel enlightening the Earth , the Whore in skarlet and pretious pearls , the Cup of abomination , the Beast like a Lamb , the Image of the Beast , the Horns and Kings of the Earth , the mark in the forehead and in the right hand , the buying and selling , the Tabernacle of God with men , the first and second Resurrection , the Throne of God , the pure crystal River of water , the Holy Jerusalem descending from God , &c. In these is much of the glory wrapped up , and from these shall the Truth we contend for , appear to our further enlightening . Yet one thing more . We that are thus contenders for Ordinances , for the Temple and the Vessels in it , let us take heed we forget not him who is greater then the Temple ; for one greater then the Temple is here . It would be spiritually considered , that while we strive for the Vessels and Cups , we spill not the Wine . And it ought to be so carried by all of us , that , because we are so much in opinion , we may not be thought to place Religion there , as I fear too many do , making a Christ of the very Ordinance of Christ , and pressing some outward Ordinances of the Gospel so legally ; as some hearing such a power of salvation put into them , and finding an outward dispensation more easily got then the spiritual , make haste thither onely , and then sit down as saved under a meer outward Ordinance . The Lord grant that we may neither undervalue an Ordinance nor the least Institution of Jesus Christ , nor raise it up into a Jesus Christ , and set up the Law above or beside the Law-giver . We must now learn to know Jesus Christ lesse after the flesh , and not to embody salvation in a meer outward dispensation , and so incarnate Jesus Christ over again from the glory and spirituality he is in . Brethren , farewell : For my part I am fully assured from Scriptures of the Church of Christ here , or Gospel-fellowship of the Saints ; and unto this fellowship with the Father and the Son , I endeavour ; and I have one way to reveal Truth to me which I cannot conceal , nor yet cannot practice as I would , and that is this ; To see Truth by living in the power of Truth , and by first obtaining Jesus Christ to live in us in the power of his suffering , death , and Resurrection ; for surely Jesus Christ must do all ( though more gloriously and spiritually ) over again in his , which he did in himself . If Jesus Christ the Light be in us , the Light by which every outward dispensation is seen , will flow in ; for where the Sun is , there will be every beam with it . THE CONTENTS . A Way of Peace , or a Designe for Reconciliation . 1 GOds Love the first and last glorious Vnion to be considered , to draw us to Vnity . Page 1. 2 Names of Sect and Division to be laid down . p. 2. 3 Passions and Railings forborn . Ibid. 4 Reviling each other for infirmities forborn . Ibid. 5 The sins of any not to be laid on the Cause . Ibid. 6 Liberty for Printing and Speaking . Ibid. 7 Let all subscribe their names to what they Print . Ib. 8 Let all be severally accountable . p. 3. 9 Free Debates , and open Conferences . Ibid. 10 Let us call Beleevers , th●ugh of several Opinions , if the name of Brethren cannot be justly allowed . Ibid. 11 No Beleevers to esteem too highly of themselves for what they attain to . Ibid. 12 No assuming Infallibility over each other . p. 4. 13 No Civil power drawn into advantages . Ibid. 14 Tendernesse in offending each other in things of an outward nature . Ibid. 15 Several Opinions from the Gospels first discovery , yet all Beleevers . p. 5. 16 No despising for too much Learning or too little . Ib. 17 We be one in Christ , though divers . Ibid. 18 The Spiritual Persecution to be forborn . Ibid. The Unwarrantable Way of Peace , or the Antichristian Designe for Reconciliation . 1 TO beleeve as the Church or Councils . p. 6. 2 To set up one as the Pope , for Infallibility . Ib. 3 To allow that all may be saved in their several wayes . p. 7. 4 To forbid Interpretings and Disputes . Ibid. 5 By a compulsive power . Ibid. The Opinions of these times . PResbystery so called , what it is , and what they hold . p. 8. Exceptions against Presbytery . p. 9. Independency so called , what it is , and what they hold . Ibid. Exceptions against Independency . p. 10. Anabaptism so called , what it is , and what they hold . p. 12. Exceptions against the grounds of the new Baptism . Ib. Seeking , or Seekers , so called ; what their Way is , and what they hold . p. 16. Exceptions against them . Ibid. Conclusion . p. 19. The Gospel , or New Testament , proved undeniably to be the very Word of God . p. 20. One Argument from the National Covenant ( Artic. 1. and 2. ) for Liberty of Conscience . p. 23. Objections against it , answered . p. 25 , 26. Spiritual Principles drawn forth of the Controversie . GOspel-truth one and the same . p. 60. Prudence and Consequences , are the great Engines of Will-worship . Ibid. The People are Brethren and Saints in Christs Church ; but in Antichrists , Parishioners and servants . p. 61. Presbytery it self is founded on Principles of Separation , which yet they condemn for Schism in other Churches : nay , is the greatest Separation . p. 62. None to be forced under Christs Kingdom , as in the Kingdoms of the world . Ibid. The power of a formal Reformation , in a Government , makes it not Christs Government . p. 63. The visible Church or Communion , is the Image of the invisible or mystical . p. 64. How Christ is a King of the Nations and of the Church , and how an Head . Ibid. The Presbyterial Government and the World's , of the same equal Dominion . p. 65. The National , and Congregational Church-covenant , both lawful , or both unlawful . Ibid. We receive and give out Truth by parts . p. 66. All Covenanters are bound to contribute to Religion as well as State . p. 67. We are to try Truth , and so receive it in its degrees . Ib. No Church-way Independency . p. 68. A spirit of Love and Meeknesse becomes Beleevers . Ib. When a State-conscience is fully perswaded ; doubtful , and so sinning . Ibid. A Post-script . With Salmasius his Testimony against the present Presbyterial way . p. 69. A WAY OF PEACE , OR A Designe of Reconciliation ; How the Beleevers of several Opinions , scandalously called Presbyterians , Independents , Anabaptists , Seekers , may be reconciled to forbear one another . ( 1 ) Gods love the first and last glorious Vnion to be considered , to draw us to Vnity . ONe way , is to consider love as it is in God , and flowing from him upon the creature : God is love ; and he that dwelleth in love , dwelleth in God , and God in him . Now the more love there is in any , the more of God there is in any . Satan , the first fountain of sin , made the first Schism in the glorious Communion : All was one , and in one glory , till the first division , and till Satan fell like lightening ; and he envying the whole Creation , which was in love with it self , and him that made it , drew it into sin , and antipathies , and mutual persecutions ; and when it began to leave loving him that was pure and infinite love , it began to hate it self , and divide from it self : So as the lesse love , the more of Satan , and sin . The consideration of Gods love to himself which is infinite , of his love to his , which is no lesse infinite , because to sinners ; and of his Sons love , spiritually uniting himself here , and gloriously hereafter , into one Body and Communion ; cannot but make us love one another . ( 2 ) Names of Sect and Division to be laid down . Let all names and notes of distinction taken up by way of scandal and reproach , be laid down and forborn ; names and notions are like Standards and several Colours in wars , whereby men are gathered into several orders , Armies , and bodies of division , one against another ; one saith I am of Paul , and I of Apollo , and I of Cephas ; Is Christ divided ? ( 3 ) Passions and railings forborn . Let a spirit of meeknesse run in the arterie of Preaching and Printing : let not passions , evil speaking , railings , which inflame and do not edifie , be heard amongst us : the angry stir up strife ; wherefore let all bitternesse , wrath , malice , with evil speaking , be put away from you . ( 4 ) Reviling each other for Infirmities forborn . Let there be no rifling into each others Infirmities , to the advantaging or disadvantaging the cause : What is any thing of the man to the thing it self ? What is ones darknesse to the light he professes ? Any ones errours to a single truth ? There is rubbish enough everywhere if swept from every corner . ( 5 ) The sins of any not to be laid on the Cause . Let not the miscarriages , the failings , the sins , the hypocrisie , &c. of any that professe a Truth , with others , be charged upon the Truth he or they professe , making such sins to be the sins of the opinion , not of the Person , as one of late who hath charged the unfortunate end of one , as a fruit of separation , whereas he might so argue against the very Doctrine of Christ , because of one Judas who did the like to himself . ( 6 ) Liberty for Printing and speaking . Let there be liberty of the Presse for Printing , to those that are not allowed Pulpits for Preaching : let that light come in at the window which cannot come in at the door , that all may speak and write one way that cannot another : let the Waters of the Sanctuary have issue , and spring up Vallies as well as Mountains . ( 7 ) Let all subscribe their names to what they Print . Let all that Preach or Print , affixe their names , that we may know from whom : the contrary is a kinde of unwarrantable modesty at the best : if it be truth they write , why do they not own it ? if untruth , why do they write ? Some such must either suppresse themselves for shame or fear ; and they that dare not own what they do , they suspect the Magistrate , or themselves . ( 8 ) Let all be severally accountable . Let all that Teach or Print be accountable , yet in a several way ; if it be matter of immediate disturbance and trouble to the State , let them account for it to the Magistrate , under whom we are to live a peaceable and quiet life ; if matter of Doctrine , &c. let them be accountable to the Beleevers and Brethren who are offended by conference , where there may be mutual conviction and satisfaction . ( 9 ) Free debates and open Conferences . Let there be free debates and open conferences and communication for all , and of all sorts that will , concerning difference in spirituals : where doors are not shut , there will be no breaking them open : so where debates are free , there is a way of vent and evacuation , the stopping of which hath caused more troubles in the States then any thing : for where there is much new wine in old bottles , the working will be such as the Parable speaks on : still allowing the State to secure all tumults or disturbances . ( 10 ) Let us call Beleevers , though of several opinions , if the Name Brethren cannot be justly allowed . Let all who pretend to come out of the Antichristian State , be acknowledged as those several Jews and Christians , who came out of Judaism and Gentilism in the Apostles times ; some were more and some lesse zealous of the Law , yet all Beleevers ; some made conscience of the Idol , and sacrifice , some not . ( 11 ) No Beleevers to esteem too highly of themselves for what they attain to . Because we are but yet in our comings out of Babylon , and the fall of Babylon not yet , the Smoke yet in the Temple , the Angels but powring out the Vials , the Angel that enlightens the earth with glory not yet flying through the heavens ; let not any account of themselves to have attained any thing yet as they ought , or to know there is not any Church or Beleevers , but if one see more of one truth , another may see more of another ; if one see one thing for a truth , another sees another thing for a truth , and yet all see short of the fulnesse of truth ; there is so much want , darknesse , and so little light or glory in each , as is rather matter of humiliation and praise , then glorying and exception one against another : If any man think he knoweth any thing , he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know , 1 Cor. 8.2 . ( 12 ) No assuming infallibility over each other . Let us not , being under no further degree of the revelation of Truth , and coming out of Babylon , assume any power of infallibility to each other : so as to force up all to our light or degree of knowing or practising ; for there lies as much on one side for compulsion , as on another , respectively to one another ; for anothers evidence is as dark to me as mine to his , and mine to his as his to me , till the Lord enlighten us both for discerning alike . So as when there is no power in us to make that appear to another which appears to us , there can be no reasonable equity for any enforcing or compelling in spirituals . The first great rent betwixt the Eastern and Western Kingdoms , began when the Bishop of Rome would needs excommunicate the East , for not beleeving as they beleeved . ( 13 ) No Civil power drawn into advantages . Let not those Beleevers who have the advantage of the Magistrate , strive to make any unwarrantable use of it one against another , because Scripture-principles are not so clear for it , and because they know not the revolution of Providence , and we are to do as we would be done to : That very day which should have been a bloody day to the Jews , was turned into the contrary ; Esther and the Jews had power over them . ( 14 ) Tendernesse in offending each other , in things of an outward nature . Let there be much tendernesse in not offending each other , but pleasing one another to edification : Paul would not offend the Idolatrous weak : The weakest and most superstitious makes most conscience of outward things ; and the strong should know , that Idol or Idol-temple is nothing : Many a one are more offended at Truth by the carriage of another , who sometimes reforms with as much superstition , as the other offends . It is as much below the glory of the Gospel to think one place unholy , as holy : No place can defile now Salomons Temple is not standing ; yet let all Truth be brought forth peaceably : Truth and Peace can offend nothing but that which may be justly offended ; which is the corruption , not the person . ( 15 ) Several Opinions from the Gospels first discovery , yet all Beleevers . Consider the differences and several Opinions from the first discovery of the Gospel : Some beleeved not Christs sufferings and Resurrection ; as the Disciples whom yet Christ took to him , and walked with , and counted as his : Some beleeved not the Holy Ghost , nor Christs Baptism , and were zealous of the Law , and yet the Disciples counted them as Beleevers . Johns Disciples would have followed John onely ; but John sent two of them to Christ at one time , and told them again he must encrease , but himself must decrease . Christ in his time would not forbid any that went about in his Name ; There is none that doth any thing in my Name , can lightly speak evil of me . When the Spirit was given , the Disciples bore one another out of the Church , as the Beleevers of Johns Baptism , and the zealots of the Law , and one another in the Church ; they that did eat , them that did not eat ; and they that regarded a day , them that regarded not a day ; walking together as far as they attained by the same rule . ( 16 ) No despising for too much learning , or too little . Let not one despise another for gifts , parts , learning : let the Spirit be heard speak in the meanest : let not the Scribe or Disputer of the Law despise the Fishermen , nor they despise them because Scribes and Disputers : The Spirit is in Paul as well as Peter ; in both as well as one . ( 17 ) We may be in one Christ , though divers . Consider that we may be one in one Christ , though we think diversly ; and we may be Friends , though not Brethren : and let us attain to Vnion , though not to Unity . ( 18 ) The spiritual Persecution to be forborn . Consider there is a two-fold Persecution : There is a spiritual or that of Beleevers , and a mixt Persecution , or civilly ecclesiastical : The spiritual Persecution is that of the Spirit meerly ; and this kinde of Persecution little thought on and studied ; this is when we cannot bear one anothers several Opinions or soul-belief , in the same spiritual Societie , or fellowship , but they must either be of us , or out of us ; and surely this kinde of Persecution is as unreasonable as any other ; for what is this but soul compulsion , when another must onely beleeve as we beleeve , and not wait till the Lord reveal even this ? This kinde of spiritual compulsion will in time break and dissolve the visible Communion of Saints , and Body of Christ exceedingly , if taken up or continued ; and it will be amongst Christians , as amongst the Antichristians where they divide and ●ubdivide , and some cast themselves into a Monkery from all the rest : Jerusalem and Antioch were not of this way , to cast out one another upon such grounds , but to meet , reason , and counsel , and hear : And surely the Churches can ill complain of a mixt persecution from without , if they persecute one another from within ; the Magistrate may as justly whip them both , as they whip one another : Such grudgings , complainings , dissolvings , spiritual enforcings , gives hint to the Civil power to compel , while it beholds them but a little more spiritually compelling one another : Let all Church-rights , priviledges , boundaries be preserved ; all Heresie and Schism by the Rule rebuked , but in all spiritual meeknesse and wisdom , and not call Heretick and Schismatick too suddenly , since we see but in part . THE UNWARRANTABLE WAY of PEACE , OR The Antichristian Designe of Reconciliation . ( 1 ) To beleeve as the Church or Councils . THat all should beleeve as the Church beleeves ; and this Church is the great Councils of Bishops , Cardinals , &c. as if the souls of all were to be saved onely in the bundle of theirs , as if they could beleeve both enough for themselves and all others . ( 2 ) To set up one as the Pope , for infallibility . Because there may be difference amongst many , and all may not agree , therefore there shall be one ( say they ) with the Vrim and Thummim , one infallibly decreeing , and interpreting , and unerring , to whom the Spirit of Truth is successively derived ; and his determinations , interpretations , shall be final , conclusive ; and this that Vicar of Christ , the Pope this one way in the Antichristian State , and all Reformed Kingdoms were once under this Peace . ( 3 ) To allow that all may be saved in their several wayes . Because there be several Beleevers , and several interpretations and opinions , one saying This is the way , and another That , therefore say some , All in all wayes may be saved , every one beleeving every thing . Now this is one way to make peace , but not the way ; there is but one Lord , one Faith , one Baptism . ( 4 ) To forbid Interpretings and Disputes . Because several opinions arise by interpretings and disputings about Scripture , therefore all openings of the Word , all disputings must be forborn . Because the Sun-shine offends some weak sight in the house , shut up doors and windows and make all dark . Thus the Papists and Prelats in forbidding Scriptures and Marginal Notes , and thus fearing there may be something false , they will hear nothing that 's true . ( 5 ) By a compulsive Power . Some take the Civil power in to make peace , reckoning a compulsive Vniformitie for Vnitie , Peace , and Truth . This is one way to deal with the body indeed , but not with the soul ; to mind the outward man , but not the inward . This way of Civilly Ecclesiastical peace is the Antichristian designe , who having got the Kings of the Nations to give their strength and power and Kingdom unto them , supplies that from the world which they want from the Word , making the spiritual power of Jesus Christ to receive its honour , life , efficacy , power , from the power of men . This way of peace is such as hath by experience troubled Nations , and troubled it self at length too ; and broken it self against that way which it aimed to break : For whosoever fals upon this stone shall be broken , and on whomsoever it shall fall it shall break , them to powder . THE OPINIONS OF THESE TIMES . With the EXCEPTIONS each Opinion may be charged withal ; being the great Argument for Love , Meeknesse , and Forbearance one to another , or of Peace and Reconciliation till the Lord reveal more . PRESBYTERIE So called ; What it is , and what they hold . THe Presbytery is set up by an a alleadged Patern of the Eldership and Presbytery of the Apostles and Elders in the first Churches of the Gospel , strengthened by such Scriptures as are in the margin , and by allusion to the Jewish Government , and to appeals in Nature . Their Churches are Parochial , or Parishes , as they are divided at first by the Romish Prelates and the Statute-Laws of the State . Which Parishes and Congregations are made up of such Beleevers as were made Christians first by Baptism in Infancy , and not by the Word : and all the Parishes or Congregations are under them , as they are a Classical , Provincial , and National Presbytery : and over those Parishes they do exercise all Church-power and Government b ; which may be called The power of the Keys . Exceptions . 1. THe Apostolical and Primitive Eldership were not so a authoritative over their Congregations as these pretend , nor so compulsive or forcing their respective Congregations . 2. The Apostolical Eldership and Presbyterie were more b infallible ; they were more in the light , and the immediate way of the revelation of Truth . 3. They took not in the power of the c Magistrate to help them , nor did they clasp it as one with their own . 4. They consisted of d Brethren as well as of the Presbyterie , and both together had a joynt interest and concurrencie in all power . 5. The Presbyteries were not as now , Classical , Provincial , National : these are no Scripture-forms , but devices of men . e 6. The f Presbyterie is of no more in the * Greek then of a g metaphorical or figurative signification , signifying Seniority or Eldership : and the setting it up in a notion of power and office , is more then the Scriptures will clearly bear : such Notions in the Word , are but Notions of form and order , not of Office . 7. The Presbyteries now are not rightly constituted , because they consisted of a Ministery from h Antichrist , and the Bishops of Rome , ordaining one another by the same power they received from them . 8. Their i Congregations are not such as before , so constituted ; because Parishes are of a Popish and Politick constitution . 9. Baptism is not to be received by Generation now , as Circumcision was , but by k Regeneration or visible Profession , as at first : Nor are the carnal seed now any more children of Abraham , but the l faithful : And no Ordinance is now to be administred upon legal consequence , but upon Gospel-precept . INDEPENDENCIE So called ; What it is , and what they hold . THe People of God are onely a a Church , when called by the Word and Spirit into Consent or Covenant , and Saints by profession ; and all b Church-power is laid in here , and given out from hence into c Pastorship and Elders , &c. and a just d distribution of Interest betwixt Elders and People . All spiritual Government is here , and not in any power forreign or extrinsecal to the Congregation or authoritative : Their children are made Christians first by Infant-Baptism , and after by the Word : and they are baptized by a e foederal or Covenant-holinesse , or Birth-priviledges , as under the Law : They may enjoy all f Ordinances in this estate , and some may g Prophesie . Exceptions . 1. THat there is not such a power radically or fundamentally placed in the Church to make Pastors and Elders , &c. because there is , first , no such practice in the Word , but rather of an Apostolical or a Ministerial power , which made or gathered Churches first , not Churches them . 2. The Eldership and Presbytery of Apostles and Elders did b principally act , and authoritatively act , and not the whole Church or people ; they in a lower and lesse Interest , in a way of choice or vote and consent . 3. That which is called Ordination , &c. was by the Apostles , and a power established in the c Presbyterie , not in the Church , as meer Beleevers . 4. They that were Baptized by an d Antichristian power , are no right Baptized Members of Churches ; and yet so are all of their Churches as were Baptized under Prelacie ; the power of the dispenser being Antichristian , and the subject or e Infant no visible Beleever for that Ordinance . 5. Their Church consists not all of visible Saints or Beleevers , according to their own f Principle : for their children being baptized , and in that condition , are no actual visible Saints ; all their Church are not living stones , nor visibly holy . And it may be more clearly proved that meer civil and moral men are rather to be admitted of their Church-society then such as children are , who are but meerly naturally visible ; neither spiritually , civilly , nor morally visible . 6. That of foederal holinesse in * 1 Cor. 7.14 . is onely to satisfie a scruple , that if Unbeleeving made wife or husband unholy , it made children unholy too ; and so both , or none , must be put away . 7. There is no carnal seed now to be sealed , Christ being come in the flesh ; which g flesh before , had a Seal of Circumcision ; but there is no such h external priviledge now , by any such right . 8. All Consequences drawn from Circumcision , are of no more force then from the i cloud and the k Sea , and the rock , and Noah's Ark , and other typicall and figurative places in the Word , nor can any legall or probable Scriptures make any Law or Rule for any such Gospel-administration , which is not directly and in l Scripture-words to be found . 9. Childrens Baptism in the Church is a way never to have a Church of such m baptized Beleevers as in the Apostles times . 10. Baptism being a n visible signe , cannot rationally be administred upon one that can neither see nor discern what is done , to whom the water can be no o signe , but they are onely told of it when they come to age : and how can it hold proportion with Circumcision , when as that was a p mark remaining in the flesh when they came to age to signifie to them ? But water is like a flash of q lightening which must be taken by the Beleever in that quick and r vanishing act , or else it hath no ſ sensible efficacy to which it was instituted ; nor doth the Beleever thus any other way enjoy it but by way of History , or a thing past and done , which he never saw . Baptism is as a flash of lightening , ( as is well observed by one ; ) Circumcision was as a fixed star ; so much difference in these two rites . 11. Institution of Baptism is to t duty as well as grace , which children cannot perform , and so answer the signe . 12. Institution of Baptism is doctrinall in the very act of it , as is acknowledged by all of the present Baptism , Matth. 28. baptizing them in the Name of the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost , &c. Now this implies a capable and teachable subject . 13. Their Churches are not distinct from other Societies Antichristian , because there is no visible gifts by which their Churches are u visibly qualified from any other Societies , and according to the promises of gifts in Ephes. 4.11 . nor no such Church-gifts as in 1 Cor. 12. &c. where there was the w gifts of the Spirit powerfully and visibly spiritualizing that body , and making it to excell all other bodies civill or Antichristian . And that Prophesy was a more x extraordinary gift then is now anywhere in the Churches . ANABAPTISM So called ; What it is , or what they hold . THe Church of Christ are a Company of a baptized Beleevers ; and whatsoever b Disciple can teach the Word , or make out Christ , may baptize or administer other Ordinances . That the Church or Body , though but of two or three , yet may enjoy the Word and Ordinances , by way of an c Administrator , or one deputed to administer , though no Pastor . That none are to be baptized but d Beleevers . That those commonly called Church-Officers , as Pastors , &c. are such as the Church or Body may be e without . That none are to be called Brethren but baptized Beleevers . All administrations of Ordinances were given to the Apostles as f Disciples ; not so under the notion of Church-power as is pretended . That none ought to communicate in the Ordinances of Christ till first g baptized . Exceptions against the grounds of the new Baptism . 1. THat those places commonly taken for the Commission for Christs Baptism , as Matth. 28.18 . Mark 16. and where they that now baptize ground their Commission and practice , hath no such thing in it ; For the Baptism there is a Baptism in the Name of the three Persons , of Father , Son , and Holy Ghost ; and not the Baptism of Jesus Christ alone , which the Apostles onely baptized in by water , as in a Act. 2.38 . Act. 10.48 . Act. 19.5 . Act. 8.16 . Rom. 6.3 . where it is still said , Baptize in the Name of the Lord Jesus , or of Jesus Christ ; and a Name of any more Persons is not the least mentioned . So as to baptize as they commonly baptize in the Name of Father , Son , and Holy Ghost , for Jesus Christs Baptism , is contrary to the full b practice of all that baptized by water , as they do , as in Act. 2.38 . Act. 10.48 . Act. 19.5 . Act. 8.16 . &c. and a confounding Scriptures together , viz. several institutions and practicer . 2. That baptizing , in Matth. 28.18 . cannot properly , nor in the word , and letter , be understood of baptizing by water , because there is no more mentioned in the letter , or Scripture , then meerly the word baptizing ; and to expound it as they do , by a baptizing by water , is to put in a c consequence and interpretation of their own for Scripture ; which way of consequences they condemn in all others , Presbyterials , &c. as Will-worship , and traditions of men , and justly too : Now there being no water , nor any circumstance in the Text to make out any sense of water , as in other places , it is an usurpation upon the Spirit and the Word , to put such a sense so infallibly and peremptorily upon the Word which Jesus Christ himself uses in other d significations then that of water , as in Matth. 20.22 , 23. Matth. 3.11 . 1 Cor. 12.13 . 1 Cor. 10.2 . all these places are of Baptism and baptizing ; yet not one of them of baptizing by water , but of Metaphorical and figurative Baptism by his sufferings , by the Holy Ghost , by the Spirit , by the cloud and sea . 3. That Matth. 28.18 . Mark 16. &c. are rather and far more probably to be expounded of the Spirits Baptism , or the e Baptism of the Holy Ghost , because it seems to be prophesied on by Joel 2.28 . Isai. 44.3 . where the Holy Ghosts Baptism is promised to come by Christ ; and in Matth. 3.11 . Act. 1.5 . Joh. 1.33 . prophesied on to come by John , and Christ himself to his Disciples , and was fulfilled in Christs institution , and power which he gave ; in Matth. 28.18 . by baptizing with the Holy Ghost , which the Apostles did accordingly practice , and by their Ministery was given , as in f Act. 8.17 . and Mark 16.16 , 17. compared with Matth. 28.18 . doth shew that the Baptism in Matth. 28.18 . is a Baptism of gifts , as Mark 16.15 , 16 , 17. 4. That the Baptism of Jesus Christ by water , was onely in the Name of Jesus Christ , as appears in all the places where such a g Baptism was practised , as in Act. 2.38 . Act. 10.48 . Act. 19.5 . Act. 8.16 . Rom. 6.3 . all which is a Baptism onely in the Name of Jesus Christ , of the Person of the Son , not of the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost , as they now practise , and which was never practised as appears in all the Apostles and Disciples practice . 5. That the form by which they baptize , viz. I baptize thee in the Name of the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost , is a h form of mans devising , a tradition of man , a meer consequence drawn from supposition and probability , and not a form left by i Christ , to lay over them at the dipping them in the water : If Christ had said , When you baptize them , say this over them , I baptize thee in the Name of the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost ; and unlesse Jesus Christ had left this form thus made up to their hands , they practise a thing made up by themselves , and drawn or forced out of Jesus Christs words in Matth. 28.18 . 6. That to preach in the Name of Jesus Christ , or to do things in the Name of Jesus Christ , is not alwayes in that grosse manner as it is taken , viz. naming Jesus Christ , or the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost over them . But in the k power , vertue , efficacy , Ministery of Jesus Christ , or the Persons of the God-head of Father , Son , and Holy Ghost , as in these Scriptures Matth. 18.20 . Mark 13.6 . Joh. 14.3 . Act. 19.15 , 16. Joh. 17.6 , 11. Act. 9.14 . Revel. 11.18 . So here they are at some more losse . 7. That though I deny not but water is a signe , and one of the l witnesses that bear record ; and in the Word though not yet clear , yet neither can Christs Institution of water , as his own Baptism , in his own Person , be made appear out of all the New Testament ; nor can the Apostles practice by water yet be fetched from such a particular Institution , unlesse from John's : And if so , I am sure they are then at as great a Controversie one with another concerning m John's Baptism and Jesus Christ's , making them to be two several Baptisms . 8. That every common disciple cannot so baptize as the first disciples did , because not gifted , or n qualified as they were . And there is as much necessity to make out the Truth in the same power and way of evidence to an Antichristian estate , as to a Jewish and Heathenish , and with a Word written as well as preached ; speaking and writing lieing both equally open to question and exceptions , without a power o gloriously working in the behalf and to the reputation of it . Nor is there any one Disciple in all the New Testament preaching and baptizing by way of authority , but he was able to make out the truth of his calling and dispensation , either by miracle or gifts . There are but three Exceptions , and they have no weight in them . 1. p Ananias was a Disciple . I answer : Yea , but he restored sight to Saul , and had vision . 2. q Philip did no miracle to the Eunuch . I answer : We can neither conclude he did , nor he did not , from the Word ; for it is silent : but he did miracles in Samaria . 3. They that were scattered went every where preaching . I answer : Who they were , or how they preached , or what power they manifested , is not laid down in the Word neither for nor against : The Word is silent . 9. That there is not such an Officer as Administrator in the whole Word ; but Apostles , Evangelists , Prophets , Pastors , Teachers , Elders , Rulers , Deacons , &c. and therefore Administrator is an unwholsome word . 10. None ought to give the Baptism now , because there is none can give the gift of the Holy Ghost with it , to make up that glorious supplement of gifts which it alwayes had ; and they are joyned both in the Word and practice , as in Heb. 6.1 . Doctrine of Baptisms and Laying on of hands : and in their practice they were joyned as in act , Act. 8.14 , 15 , 16. And it will appear in the Word that the Apostles did not so reckon of them single , but together , as in Act. 8.14 , 15 , 16. where it is said they were onely Baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus ; but they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Ghost . So as Baptism by water , and by the Holy Ghost , being joyned together both in Institution , Doctrine , and Practice , are not to be separated , nor given in such a time wherein that of the Holy Ghost is not given : For , what God hath joyned together , let no man put asunder . 11. That it is as unreasonable to take any such Ordinance of Jesus Christ from any that is not distinctly , specially , spiritually , powerfully enabled as the first dispensers , as it is to take the word of any a common man charging us in the Name of the Parliament , and cannot visibly make out a visible excellency and supremacy of power by Ordinance or Commission . 12. That these Churches who enjoy Christs minde , as they think , most fully in the practice of Ordinances , yet have no greater gifts in their b Churches then there are in those called Independent , or Separatist ; Prayer , Teaching , Prophesying being as fully and powerfully performed in the one as the other . And being so , Whether must not the Churches of Christ be distinguished by some more visible glorious power and gifts as at first , c by which they may be discerned to excel all othe●Societies ? 13. That the fulnesse of time is not yet come for Ordinances : For as there were several d seasons for the givings out of Truth before , so now . SEEKING , or , SEEKERS So called ; What their Way is , and what they hold . THat there is no Church nor Ordinances yet . That if they did not end with the Primitive or Apostles times , yet they are to begin as in the Primitive times , with a gifts and miracles ; and that there is as much reason for the like gifts to make out the Truth of any of the Gospel now to an Antichristian estate , as formerly to a Jewish or Heathenish . That such a Beleever as can dispense Ordinances , must be qualified as the Beleevers in Mark 16. and as the former b Disciples were . That there is a time and c fulnesse for the Spirit , and for the latter pure spiritual dispensations , as there was formerly for the first dispensations : And whether this shall be while the Angels are but powring out their Vials or not , or when Babylon is fallen . And whether there is not as much need for d new Tongues to reveal the pure Original to us , it being conveyed with corruptions and additionals in Translations ; by which , Truth may be more purely discovered , and the waters of Life that now run muddily , may flow more clear and crystal-like from the Throne e of God . The Exceptions . 1. THat Jesus Christ did promise to be ever with his a Church , and therefore cannot be reasonably presumed to leave them without b Church and Ordinances . 2. That if c Scriptures were not so pure and clear to us , as the Word of Life were not sufficiently there ; God were lesse d gracious to us now under Grace , and Christ come in the flesh , then before to the Jews , who gave them a Book of the Law , which remained with them to the coming of the Messiah . 3. That such gifts and miracles were rather for bringing the Word into the world , and for glorifying Christs first coming in the fl●sh , then for e after . 4. That if we must have miracles to make us beleeve , and not beleeve any truth till then ; we must have for every Truth , as well as for one or two , a miracle to give it evidence : and so there must be a continual and new miracle-working for every new beleeving . 5. If there must be miracles for beleeving , Truth is not of that excellent nature that it seems : for if it be not able to make it self evident , and cast a native and spiritual f shine or brightnesse upon that soul it comes into , it is but weak , dark , and insufficient . 6. If Truth be not discernable in it self by its own glorious light-some nature , by beams from it self ; it is of a worse condition then many things b●low , as the sun , and stars , and candles , &c. which bring that light in their own nature and dispensation , by which they are discerned . 7. If every Truth be a beam of g Christ the truth , then every beam hath h light in it self , because it streams from the fountain of light , and so is discernable . 8. That it is more glorious to take evidences from the Spirit , then from any thing without ; which can at farthest of it self but convince the outward man . 9. That all shall now in the last times be in a secret , invisible , inward , spiritual glory , no more in grosse , carnal , visible evidences and material beams , as gifts and miracles . And this is to know Christ no more after the flesh . 10. No miracles can in their own nature make one beleeve , without a spiritual conviction from the Spirit of Christ going along with it ; so as we see when miracles were wrought , some beleeved , and some beleeved not : So as then there is no such reason for miracles as pretended , because that conviction which comes from the Spirit through the work of a miracle , may come by any other instrumental or organical way . Or , it is a more glorious operation , by how much more single , or by way of immediate revelation it works . 11. To beleeve meerly by the i Spirit , is far more glorious then by any other outward means , though never so outwardly glorious : by how much the Spirit is more excellent then any thing else , by so much more divine and spiritual are the impressions of it . 12. That when miracles are wrought , yet a pretender may work a miracle for the contrary ; like the sorcerers of Egypt against Moses : and Antichrist is spoken on rather to come k with signes and wonders of the two , then Christ . So as here shall be a losse to any that thinks to beleeve meerly by miracle . So as the Spirit is that which must make us beleeve beyond all the power of miracle , which can give out its power but upon the sense at furthest , being meerly outward and visible . 13. That there is no such power for Ordinances as is pretended ; but Beleevers , as l Disciples , may administer ; and so did the Apostles and Beleevers formerly , as they were Disciples . 14. That the Scriptures of the Gospel , or New Testament , are of such a m divine and even spiritual glory in the letter , as no other word : There is a power to discover the reason and secrets of the heart , which the reason and heart of man witnesses unto : There is a power to convince , and accuse , and terrifie , and comfort , clearly , and undeniably , and experimentally known . 15. These Scriptures we have , as they are , do make a Discovery of such a way of Religion as reason never yet in any age attained to : The men of purest reason , as your old Philosophers , never attained further then the knowledge of something infinite which they did not know , and a Religion of humane or moral righteousnesse and purity , and some sacrifices of atonement , &c. And there is not any Religion in the world , Jewish or Turkish , but they are made up of carnal principles , and are founded upon reason and nature ; but this Gospel-Religion hath opened a new way of righteousnesse in one that is both God and Man in a most rational though infinite way of salvation , and a way of Worship crosse to all methods and wayes of reason , and the world , opening new wayes by a new Spirit , purifying natural reason into more divine and glorious notions then ever it yet attained , bringing in a way of b●leeving , and placing a Religion upon a spiritu●l perswasion called Faith , which is more proportionable to an infinite God , and an infinite way and depth of salvation , then reason ever invented , viz. for the soul to beleeve upon one , even Jesus Christ , in whom God hath laid up all love and fulness● ; and so for man to become one with him who is God and Man : and there cannot be a more rational way for man to become one with God , then by one who is both God and Man . 16. That though there be not such glorious powrings out of Spirit , and such gifts as Beleevers both may and shall have ; yet all Beleevers ought to practice so far of the outward Ordinance as is clearly revealed they may . 17. That the Scriptures or Gospel of the New Testament being as many hundred yeers old as from the Apostles , even in that Original we have them , no very material differences in Copies , as it seems ; and though they have passed through the great Apostacy , yet they have not had the power to corrupt them materially in their Original , to advantage their heresies and corruptions ; which very constant preservation of Truth in the midst of the very Enemies of Truth , is both a constant and standing miracle of it self ; and so we need not stay for a Ministery with miracle , being we have a Word with miracle , which in its matter , subject , power , speaking of God , of his Son , God and Man , of his Spirit the Actor in man from both , by wayes of outward Ordinances , of the depths , windings , and workings of reason , &c. is of as much efficacy to perswade as any thing else we can have ; and the way of the pure Spirit is a more glorious way of operation then any other of a visible sensual nature : And God may be more glorified by quickening and spiritualizing a word , and using the spiritually glorious Ministery of that , then of man : and they are far too low who look for their original teachings from man , and not from the Word and Spirit . CONCLUSION . I Have drawn out this map of each opinion , that your eye may travel over that in an hour , which otherwise you might be a yeer in going over . Thus each are discovered in a narrow yet full Discovery ; and I think all that are divinely rational , will see no such cause to think that each hath attained so far , that either they should presume in their degree , or look down from the pinnacle of an infallibility upon each other . I have set the strength and weaknesse of each opinion before it self , that on the one side as it may glory , so on the other side it may fear and be humble . All I wish now is that we be all so far one , at least in infirmity , and this Common weaknesse , as may be a ground of Common embodying and associating against the Common Enemy , or Grand Antichrist ; as in States , who when they are at lowest , have least factions ; and when weakest , are most peaceable with one another . The GOSPEL , or NEW TESTAMENT of JESUS CHRIST , proved undeniably to be the very Word of God , without Miracles , to assure us of the particular duties in it . Because there are some men now of more reason then sound belief , I cannot but in a spiritual rationally way bear witnesse to our salvation in the written Word . 1. IF there were not a Word or Will of God revealed in Laws and Ordinances written , God were worse provided then the Law-givers of Nations and Kingdoms , and the world were left to their own wills ; which is esteemed ridiculous in the eyes of all the Nations of the world in their very politike condition . 2. The Laws and Ordinances contained in the Word , or New Testamens , bear onely the Image of a God , in their holinesse , purity , righteousnesse , glory , infinitenesse , eternity , immortality , which are all , with many more things of like excellency , there , which are as the beams of light to the Sun , or so many things of God , revealing God . 3. The Word is so tempered into a middle nature betwixt God and man , as no Word can be more revealing the most glorious , spiritual , infinite things from a God , in a mean , literal , figurative , comparative , significative way to man . 4. To have a standing Word as the Gospel is , is more for the glory and authority of a God then any ministery of man , though with miracles and signes ; because such a Word , where none can joyn themselves as Authors or Parties , as in other wayes of dispensation by men , men may joyn themselves , doth undoubtedly hold forth most of God and of divine Authority ; and thus to maintain or preserve a Law or Word in the world , is not so much with God as for Kings and Princes to maintain Statutes and Laws in their Kingdoms . 5. A Word as the New Testament is , may be as well a way and dispensation to an infinite God to make out himself by , as any other , either of dream or vision , or Revelation or Oracle , all being but wayes of a natural strain and condition , no more then the Word . 6. The very manner of dispensation or writing , is such as hath the authority , power , wisdom , couns●ls of a God , the whole businesse of it being a work discovered to be begun by God , and amongst men , to set forth the glory of God , the mercy , love , and wisdom of G●d , and the way by the Son of God , and Spirit of God , and all to be glorified with God ; and thus treating onely of things divine , and a work divine , in a way divine . 7. We must either give up our selves to this Word wholly , or not at a●l ; and then let the world and experience judge what kinde of Religion reason at large unbounded , or unenlightened , will bring forth , by the former paterns of Heathenish and G●ntilish Religion . 8. Why should it not be thought the most clean and direct w●y for God , to manifest himself to man by Word , Gospel , and Epistle , and so by an infinite and invisible power and hand commend and convey it from age to ag● , from generation to generation , as well as for men to make out their art , reason , knowledge , experience into books and words written , to their own and other generations ? 9. This Gosp●l of Jesus Christ places Religion upon a more glorious transcendent way , to sute with an infinite God , then ever any device of man , or reason could invent , viz. upon faith , upon a beleeving or spiritual perswasion wrought by the same God , by which men are carried out into depths of infinitenesse and glory , no way measurable nor discernabl● but by this way of beleeving ; and there could never have been an engine contrived which could have gone from man into God but this of faith by God himself ; nor more for the advantage of the glo●y of a God , taking all from the creature , employing it wholly upon a God . 10. There is more reason in this Gospel , or New Testament , in the way of R●ligion which it holds forth by Jesus Christ , then ever could be thought on by the reason of man ; as for instance , Each mans internal conscience hath a light or law in it which condemns or accus●●h for murther , &c. now if there be accusations , against whom is the offence committed but against something infinite ? and what way is there more divinely rational to apply to the justice of such an infinit● , being on God offended , but by one who is both man and God , even J●sus Christ ? So as the mystery of salvation is such as even reason it self cannot contradict or gainsay , though it cannot comprehend to leave the world inexcusable in their unbelief , because it commands them to believe in one whom in reason they cannot deny to be a way proportionable betwixt God and themselves for salvation . 11. It carries things in such a rare way of mercy , of justice , of love , of piety ; an● as it is a salvation from God to man , so it is a salvation managed by one who is God and Man ; and every thing belonging to it , is accordingly mixed or tempered , of Word and Spirit , of power divine and outward dispensation , or ordinance ; and all this for man who is of a mixed nature of flesh and spirit : Thus things are carried in a way of proportion and sutablenesse , so full , so sutable , and compleat , and serviceable , as the invention of men could never devise . 12. It discovers reason to it self in all its workings and wayes , in its purity and corruption , in its vertues and vices , conscience bearing witnesse to the Laws and Commandments of it ; it purifies and spiritualizeth reason , and brings it into such a way of communion with God , as the souls that read it , and are exercised in it , seem to be new born , to receive in another nature , an immortal and incorruptible seed . 13. It manages all the designe of salvation contrary to nature and the world , upon contrary principles , dispensations and hands , by a Person poor , humble , and crucified for the good , by Ministers and Dispensers , mean and contemptible fisher-men , tradesmen , &c. yet inspired by graces contrary , as self-denial , humility , love to enemies ; by conditions contrary , as weaknesse , affliction , poverty , suffering , dying , carrying a treasure , a comfort , a riches , a life , a glory , under all these . 14. It is accompanied by continued or standing miracles , though miracles of a more spiritual nature , as discovery of the counsels and hearts of men , as conversion from sin , mortification of sin , changing natures from evil to good , planting in new dispositions , inclinations , affections into the soul . Now , if such changes and conversions were in material or sensible things , as from water to blood , from water to wine , how would it astonish ? Which in spirituals is more wonderful , though onely lesse discernable , and not to be so sensibly perceived , preserved by its very enemies , the Roman cruelty of Emperours , and Antichristian Traditions . 15. It refers the discovery of all Truth in it self to the Spirit of God , which no word but the Word of God would do , and will not take in men into glory with it self which miracles do , which are done by the hand and ministery of man ; and the Spirit in this way must needs be a more glorious Interpreter of the Will of God , then the meer ministery by man and miracles can be , by how much it is of a more spiritual nature ; and it is more excellent to seek things in the Spirit , then in any out ward dispensation , which as it comes more immediately from God , so it comes in more immediately upon men ; and to take in Truth by sense and sight , or miracle , is rather to know Christ after the flesh . 16. Yet after all , the Word it self is the best way to bring in evidence and discovery in its own behalf to the souls of those that will come under the power , operation , and experiments of it , under the enlightening , convictions , impressions of it , in the reading , hearing , and meditating of it . These things are written that ye may beleeve : And they that are thus exercised , are above all miracle , and are perswaded enough by it self without the help of an outward work . 17. To these I adde the testimonies of the most ancient in witnesse of it . Dionysius Areopagita , thought to live in the times of the Apostles , & not daring to take his Divinity anywhere but from these Scriptures . Irenaeus , who was in the yeer 180. affirming the fulnesse of these Gospel-Scriptures , and accounted them the Pillar of Truth . So Tertullian , who lived 1400 yeers since , doth accordingly witnesse to their perfection . Origen , Athanasius , Chrysostome , Constantine the Great , in the first Nicene-Council , with thousands others all along to our own age . 18. The Jews , whose very Testament and condition answers to every Prophesie and Gospel-Scripture . 19. The many of those most eminently ancient , learned , and godly , who have shed their blood in testimony of it . 20. The power of God going along with it . 21. The confessions of the most learned in that , confesse , that the Original Copies are not corrupted , but continued pure . One ARGUMENT from the National Covenant for Liberty of Conscience , yet with all subordinate and just obedience to the State . ART . 1. THe first Branch of the Covenant is , That we shall sincerely , really , and constantly , &c. endeavour , &c. the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdoms of England , &c. in Doctrine , Worship , Discipline , and Government , according to the Word of God , &c. ART . 2. The second Branch of the Covenant , That we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of Popery , &c. Superstition , Heresie , Schism , &c. and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound Doctrine , &c. Now from these I argue , 1. Each one is personally and individually bound by the Covenant , and in his own proper conscience is obliged to endeavour a Reformation according to the Word of God , and so far to the example of the best Reformed Churches as they are agreeable to that Word ; I hope no further . Now who shall be the Judge and Interpreter of this Word of God , to each mans conscience in the things of God , but he who is Lord of the conscience , in things immediately divine & spiritual ? The consciences of men are under a spiritual and immediate Interpreter of the Word , even the Spirit of the Lord , in all things of spiritual cognizance , as every Scripture-truth , or Truth , in the Word is : and this is not onely strengthened and clear from the Word , but from a testimony which some when they read , may know better then many others . By the Clause , According to the Word of God , we understand , so far as we do or shall in our consciences conceive the same to be according to the Word of God . Now each man standing thus ingaged in his own particular and in his own proper conscience by a Covenant recommended and imposed , each is bound to bring forth the evidence of their consciences in particular , concerning this to which they are covenanted : So as I , or you , being covenanted against Popery , Heresie , and according to the Word of God , you and I stand bound by our own private consciences to reveal to the State , who hath recommended such a Covenant unto us , what our consciences interpret according to this Word , against Popery or Heresie , unlesse there could be one universal or publike infallible Interpreter of the Word of God and Truth , who might determine concerning Heresie and the Word of God , and whose determinations is as in the formerly inspired Apostolic●l teachers we may rest . So being thus ingaged by Covenant , we are at the same time , by one and the same Act , bound to liberty of conscience , in these particulars of the things of God : and if there should be any persecution for the pious , modest , and peaceable liberty , so taken and practised , whether would it not clearly and undeniably follow , that our consciences are not under the Lord Jesus , and his Spirit immediatly in the things of God , but under the interpretations of men . And surely that one Clause , according to the Word of God , is most providentially inserted ; for if we be so closely covenanted to the Word of God , how tender ought we to be ? lest in this dark season of our discerning , we oppose something of the Word , and so in ignorance , persecute what we covenant to maintain . I wish our Assembly would presse this equally with the Covenant in their Sermons . Object . But must every one be the Interpreter of the Covenant ? Answ. Nay , not every one , in every thing : The Magistracy in all things of a civill cognizance , and in all spirituall things which go out from their meer spirituall condition into a morall offence , as injustice or evil transgression into tumult or disturbance of publike or private peace , actually and expressely , not interpretatively ; for so the Nations interpreted the Jews as troublers of the State ; and the Jews , Christ and his Disciples , as movers of sedition : The Papists and Prelats interpreted the Nonconformists or reproached Puritans , as factious and tumultuous : So as in all things of Moral , Civil , or Secular cognizance , which the Magistrate hath clear rule for to walk by , He ought to interpret and proceed by ; partly , because he is the Legislator , and so is the best Interpreter , and can best resolve us in things of Law and publike liberty ; and in morals , his duty lies out more clearly ; but in meerly divine and spiritual interpretations of Truth and Gospel-mystery , the Lord Jesus and the Spirit of Jesus Christ are both the Legislators , or Law-givers , and Interpreters to the conscience . Object . But shall there be no power to compel consciences into Uniformity ? Answ. I shall give light to this by propounding a Case . Suppose the several godly parties , or beleevers , were equally principled for persecution or non-toleration , and were equally numbred , and were equally strengthened by parties of Magistracy on their side , What would come forth according to such principles ? I sigh to consider : There would be edge against edge , authority against authority , power against power , and all the State or Kingdom involved into blood and cofusion : So as we must consider things according to their principles , not according to their temporary or occasional advantages . Object . But you give not enough to the Magistrate . Answ. Yea , more then any . He that gives him that which God hath given him , gives more then any that pretend to give him the most . The pretenders that bid for the Magistrate at this time are , 1. They that put him as an help and government in the Church , as some , viz. they of the Erastian way . 2. They that make use on him but as an help to the Church extrinsecally , and by way of forrain assistance , as others , viz. they of the Presbyterial way . 3. They that give him power over body , goods , over all moral and civil behaviours of men , Professors and Beleevers , of what sort soever , of what opinion soever , as I and the rest of our Brethren do , praying with all manner of supplication that under them we may lead a peaceable , godly , and quiet life . Object . But why dare you not ingage Civil Magistracy in Religion over consciences , as some others do ? Answ. Yea , In all things morally good and evil , God hath ingaged them , and hath set the Law and Light of nature and conscience in all people to side with them , condemning and excusing what they and their Law doth condemn and excuse , and thus to bear witnesse with their dominion and power . But in things of pure Gospel-mystery and Evangelically good or evil , I dare not ingage them ( whatever others do ) over consciences , because I give more to their just power , and because I dare not draw them into such principles , which hath broken more Magistracy , then all the other plots and devices of men . For things of Worship which are laid up in the pure simple mystery , in the Light of the Spirit , not of nature , as all meer Gospel-mystery is , to ingage the Magistrates sword into these , is rather a way to dash them against every mans conscience , and so in time to lay in a fatal power or a fatal suffering . We know that power which makes Kingdoms soùndest in their Dominion , and most lasting , is the truest and wholsomest ; and surely that which ingages them lest into that part of the soul , the conscience which can lest endure to be oppressed , is the safest and most peaceable . To my Reverend learned Friend Master LEY , One of the Assembly of Divines , at Westminster , Author of a Book called The Resolution of the New Quere , published by Master Saltmarsh . SIR , I Shall give you a publike account according to your publike charge in your leafe concerning me , That I intended to make you my Censor for some papers which I did not publish . Pag. 1. Sir , those papers were an answer to Master Fullers last Book ; and the Question about Reformation betwixt him and me being so out of all Question , as Master Herle observeth , and he as I heared , being dead , made me rather put up my Arrows into their Quiver , theen shoot them at such a mark . For my contending with you in this , I hope it is but as that of Paul and Barnabas , and Paul and Peter , a contention of Brethren , not of Enemies ; for I think you would oppose Truth no more then my self ; but we both may be said to contend rather for the Truth then against it , and rather with one anothers reason , then with Truth . In this Controversie you have much advantage of learning , and experience ; but there is a Spirit and the inspiration of the Almighty . which enlightens the young man and the old ; Elihu as well as Job or his Friends . Your other advantages are , the Magistrate whom you have more on your side ; we onely are more on the Magistrates side , then they are on ours ; yet we cannot but say , and blesse the Lord for them , they are so far on ours , as we lead a peaceable and quiet life under them . Your other advantage is an Assembly of learned Divines , yet not so wholly yours ; the way of Truth we stand for , hath a Party there ; and I hope when the vaile of prejudice is taken away , and Truth is brought home to their souls in its nakednesse , power , and evidence , by a power more spirituall then is yet given out from Heaven , our Party there will be greater : I willingly presume so much of them . I have laboured that a Spirit of love and meeknesse might run through all my Reply unto you , though in my travelling over your paper I have met with some things in the way too sharp , and your way hath more Briars and Thorns in it then you promised in your first leafe : I had much ado not to be provoked , by how much your promise had removed all offence on your part from my expectation . If you finde any passions in my Book , charge them on my unregenerate part ; for I finde that when I would do good , evil is present with me . You see my labours , deducting the time of their Printing , are of about two weeks growth , younger by some six weeks ( if I mistake not ) then yours . I hope where you could not expect much , you will not look for more then I here return you in this time . Sir , I salute you in the Lord , and with all due respects to your self , your age , your learning , I begin my Discourse with you ; and the Lord let me see the failings on my part , while I seek to discover those on yours , that I may take out the beam from my own eye , as well as the mote from yours . You desired me in your Book to enter upon a way of Peace ; and I have accordingly presented my Modell to be perfected and refixed by any that will set upon the work : I do not love in any thing I write , to fume out meerly in Controversie ; but in something if it may be to edification . I rest Your Friend in the Lord JOHN SALTMARSH . The Smoke in the Temple . Wherein is the Vindication of the NEW QUERE FROM Master Ley's RESOLUTION . Master Ley's Resolution , Page 2 , & 3. I Put a Question , Whether he were an Independent or no ? He told me , He was not ; but that he had a latitude of charity for them of that way . Since that , I had a glimpse more of his inclination by his Dawning of Light : but a full discovery of his minde in his Book , The Opening of Master Prynns Vindication . I will not entertain him as an enemy . To give him his due , in all that I have seen set forth in his name , I finde him rather opinionative then passionate . Reply . Your Question was accordingly put by you , and accordingly answered by me . And for my appearing for Truth not all at once in my Treatises , you may see I was not hasty to beleeve , nor to write in the behalf of a Truth before I saw it , nor to plunge my self into any Way till I had examined it . The Apostles waited for the full revelation of all truth by the Spirit 's coming . The Bereans searched daily to see whether the things were so , or no . Apollos preached not Christ clearly till he was instructed in the way of God more perfectly . We are bidden to try the spirits , and prove all things : So as I appeared in those degrees but by Scripture-warrant . And I could name to you examples of another sort ; Augustine , Luther , both finding truth but in degrees ; and the latter sweetly acknowledging how he was enlightened by beam after beam . Angels , who lie more naked towards God , and take in the things they know , by way of Vision ; yet see not any of that will of God which gives Laws to them , but as he reveals : Much lesse such as we who dwell in houses of clay , and whose foundations are in the dust , and who come by the sight of things discoursively , and by spiritual reasoning ; God giving in the revelation of his Truths in a natural , yet supernatural way . But for that Notion of Independency you speak on , I dare not own it , because I account my self both under a spiritual and civil Supremacy ; under Jesus Christ and the Magistrate severally , and exempt from neither . We are not of those that despise Governments and speak evil of Dignities , not are we under any such singular Notion that I know on , to be called Independents , &c. We all hold of the Body of Christ , and of the Communion of Sain●s below , and we hold one upon another , but not one over another . We dare not be Classical , Provincial , National ; these are no forms of wholsome words to which we are commanded , nor know we any such power ; but that of Brethren , and Ministery , and fellowship . We dare not take out a Copy either from the States of the world , or the State of Israel , to obey or rule by under the Gospel . And if you call the Churches of Christ Independent for this , we must suffer till the Lord bring forth our righteousnesse as the noon-day . Yet this you and we both know , that when Truth would not embody or mingle at any time with corruptions , it had presently the name of Sect , Schism , Faction ( all which are implyed in the name Independency ) put upon it . Thus were the Reformed Nations of England , Germany , France , &c. scandalized by Popish Writers , and the old Nonconformists by the Prelatical ; the Jews formerly by the Nations , and the Christians by the Jews . We have heard enough of Independency and Presbytery ; such notes of distinction are now become names of reproach : and so I lay them down . And whereas you say you will not entertain me as an enemy ; it is more likely then in the end both you and I may prove a better friend to the Truth . It is possible many in this Age might have seen more , had they not cast so much dust in one anothers eyes by their strivings : It were well such a Gospel-spirit would walk more abroad , and that spirit which casts men sometimes into the fire , and sometimes into the water , were not so stirring . Well , since you will be no enemy to me , I shall not , I hope , contend with you , though I dare not but contend earnestly for the Truth . And the Truth it self which I write for , may ( I hope ) at length finde you no more an enemy to it then you are to me . I cannot but wish one of your experience and abilities , like Paul , to preach for that Truth which before he destroyed . Our hearts desire and prayer should be for any of Israel . And for that you say of me in your Observation , that I am rather opinionative then passionate , I cannot take it so ill from you that will needs be no enemy to me : I interpret any thing from such a one on the better side of it . But I shall allow you your liberty at my self : And if the Truth of God may more abound through my opinion ( as you take it ) unto his glory , I have enough . Master Ley's Resolution , Pag. 4 , & 5. I wonder he , who hath writ a whole Book of Policie , should be so unpolitick as to think it seasonable , since it tends to retard the establishment of Government , whereto the Parliament is so much ingaged by Declaration , &c. by Solemn League and Covenant , Art. 1. already setting it up in Ordinance for Ordination , &c. Though the liberty of speaking lengthens the Debates , and delays the Votes , &c. and so much the more , because they are more in number then we , and because their determinations are final , as ours are not . Answer . For some things in my Book of Policy , I praise the Lord I can look on them as on part of the darknesse I was in : and I can freely joyn with any in censuring any unregenerate part in me , as I esteem much of my Carnal reason to be . When I was a childe , I spake as a childe ; neither have I any fruit now ( as the Apostle sayes ) of some of those things . Nor would I have any go thither for direction , but so far as they find Scripture or sound Reason . I cannot but give a Caution concerning this Book , because I would have Readers to look on any thing from me , as Luther speaks of himself , as I receive in light . And methinks I scarce do any thing which I could not with Augustine , when it is done , finde something to retract in it : either something is too dead , or too dark , or too carnal . Thus you see I willingly help you against my self ; and I account it a part of my condition here , not to see all at once . For the unseasonablenesse of my Quere , you alleadge the Declaration of Parliament , and the Covenant in Art. 1. wherein they are ingaged to endeavour Reformation ; and the Ordinances , &c. Now where is my unseasonablenesse ? The Parliament is endeavouring , &c. May I contribute my moneys , my vote , my pains , my informations to the Civil ingagements , and not my notions to the Spiritual ? Are we not to bring in all our disoursements , either Natural , Civil , or Spiritual , into that publike Treasury ? Though you of the Assembly cast in of your aboundance , may not the poor ones cast in their mite ? Are we not by the same Covenant bound to discover anything against God and the State , and the glory and peace of both ? And if I finde my conscience perswading me such or such a thing is not accordingly , ought I not by all the Obligations that are upon me , of Gospel , Parliament , and Countrey , peaceably and meekly to speak a word ? May we discover any thing to the State we conceive of malignity or danger in Civil things , and not in Spirituals ? Is not the Spiritual or soul-liberty , the more glorious liberty of the Subject ? We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard , saith the Apostle : And , What you hear in the ear , that speak you on the house top , saith Christ . We know who it was that said , Prophesie not here ; for it is the Kings Chappel . And for things of a Spiritual nature , we are allowed almost the fulnesse of time for season . Be instant in season and out of season , saith Paul . But , What better season could I come in , then such a one , wherein things were but ripening and moving towards establishment ? Where nothing is setled , there can be nothing disturbed . Where nothing is concluded , there can be nothing repealed . Where nothing is established , there can be nothing disordered . But since you put me to a further account . I shall give it . My spirit was not my own so wholly then , but his ( I hope ) whose motion I obeyed , the Lords . Such breathings of Heaven who dare safely quench ? It is as fire in the bon●● ▪ sayes the Prophet : and like that of Mordecai , If thou altogether hold thy peace at this time &c. And whereas you say , that the Parliaments determinations are finall , That holds better for me , who might have spoken to much lesse purpose , had I stayed till all had been done , and the determinations ended , and become final ; sure it was time then to speak before determinations were final , or never , and by your own account too ; for you are pleased to reckon up the proceedings of State in the businesse of Religion ; which are such , as had I stayed , I had had a worse season ; however , as the Prophet says , I have delivered my soul : they were , you know , the foolish virgins that came not with their oil till the door was shut . Whatever my Oil or my Lamp was , yet I think it not agreeable to the wisedom of that Parable , to come and knock onely when the door is not open . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 6 , 7 & 8. The title of the Quere is baited with Truth and Peace . He a private Divine to put such a Quere , both of State and Religion , and to suggest such a suspition of haste , and to tax the Ministers for putting in for a power not consonant to Scriptures and Prudence , &c. His rendring the original word metaphorically : His artificial colours , Rhetorical , &c. And my marshalling his reasons in a right method . Reply . I have gathered up into one bundle your pieces of a lighter concernment : I would not stay tything Annise and Cummin , but I hasten to the weightier matters of the Law . A word onely to each . For baiting my Quere with Truth and Peace , you allude to Christ's allegory , that we are fishers of men : and if I have no worse things to bait with then these two , Truth and Peace , none need , I hope , be afraid of the hook . And for the proof of them both , argument and time will evidence . For me , a private Divine , to put a Quere of State and Religion . What were John Hus , Wickliff , Luther , Paphnutius , who in their several ages gave out their testimonies ? They were but single men , compared with Councils and Synods . Not that I would compare with them , who am lesse then the least of all the mercies of God ; yet they were but single , though singular men . And what if a private Divine ? Jesus Christ may bid a private man stand and speak to the people . There is a law of the Spirit commands to speak as well as the Law of a State ; and though you speak by the later law , another may speak by the former . And what though a Quere both of Religion and State ? Is not our Covenant mixt accordingly of Religion and State ? Doth not the State it self mix with Religion where Churches are National ? And how can I speak properly but to both , where both are in interest ? For my suggestion of a suspition of haste ; you know , words and phrases are not the same to all : one may interpret thus , another thus . I had no thought of Jehu's driving , as you imply , when I wrote . I must lay the supposed crime at your own doors ; for it is none of mine ; nor have I ( nor any ) reason to tax that Honourable Senate , whose counsels are grave , and serious , and deliberate . Had I lookt for Jehu , I should have lookt to another coast and quarter , where they drive more furiously . Why deal you not more candidly ? Why are you not more faithful in your interpretation to the Original ? For that of my taxing the Ministers for desiring power ; none have reason to speak but the guilty ; it concerns not the innocent . It is not strange for some Ministers to affect Government , or rather ruling : we have so much of Prelacie yet left , and working in the Countrey with us ; and if not in the City too , I refer you to master Coleman . For the word rendred from the Original metaphorically ; I quoted onely the Text , to my remembrance , to the Printer's hand ; and how he came by the metaphor , I know not ; but I finde fault as well as you : However , to make the best of it now , translations of Scripture are not all Grammatical , as you know ; nor to the letter , as I could wish them with you . For artificial colours , or Rhetorical , &c. You make me guilty of such vernish as I have not laid on , to my knowledge ; nor have much to lay on , if I would : Truth and Peace , which were my subjects , are fair enough of themselves , without any colour of mine : and I desire not to bring forth either , but in the evidence and demonstration of the spirit ; and if there be any thing of their own beauty there , call it not artificial ; put not suspitions and jealousies into any , that such things as they see are not so , to make men Sceptical . It is as much injury to Truth and Peace to misreport them , as to counterfeit them . And for your logical marshalling my reasons , I thank you ; you took more pains with them then I would do . I gave them out in that Notional order I received them in . Nor dare I be too logical and notional in things divine . Systems and forms of art , have done our Divinity some harm . Such Classes and methods of reason have been found too strait for the more spiritual enlargements of Truth . Yet I honour your Learning , though I thus speak . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 9 & 10. His first reason taken from Rules of Faith , Rom. 14.3 , 13 , &c. Now he should have planted his reason directly against the imposing a Government , rather then obedience to it ; as thus , &c. Those that set up a Government which they are not fully perswaded on , sin : But , they that now set up Church-government with power , &c. do set up a Government whereof they are not fully perswaded on : Therefore in so doing , they sin . The major is true , but the minor not , because of their faithful learned Counsellors , and Scripture-discussings . Reply . Since you will help me to prove , you are welcome : You have furnished me with one Argument more : You are a fair enemy , to lend out your own weapon . And now you have made your Argument half for me , I shall make the other half my self . You say , What the imposers of Government cannot do in Faith , is sin : This is your half Argument . But you take it for granted , Our imposers of Government are not such , but such as are fully perswaded , and can set up the Government in faith ; and you prove it thus , from those of their Counsellors so neer them , and from their Scripture-discussions . First , I know not what Counsellors you mean ; but they are too wise a Senate to be carried by any interest but their own ; and I wish them no other Counsellors then Truth and Peace : nor do I know that they are so fully perswaded of any such Government . I believe some of them are not so fully principled for your way ; and then they all are not perswaded so of the Government : nor have you yet been able to make out the evidence of every truth you presented them from clear Scriptures , saving your Art of deductions and consequences , and prudence : and if all cannot be perswaded that State conscience or Publike conscience is not so wholly nor fully perswaded : then , as you imply , a State or Publike conscience is like a Particular conscience ; which if it doth not Wholly consent , is doubtful , or weak : for it is not in Spiritual things as in Civil : Votes of major parts make Laws , and they stand good from any such forms of Policie : but I never yet saw that rule in the Gospel for any such proceedings in spiritual things : but that is a Law in Christ's Kingdom , not that which is voted so , but that which is so in the truth of it : For else Popery were the best ; for it hath most voices and counsels . So as unlesse you can prove the Parliament to be of one minde in it , how can you prove a Parliament so fully perswaded in minde as you imply ? Let them prove a Truth by most voices that please or can ; but I wish the businesse of a State-conscience , in a thing of this nature , were more enquired into then yet it hath been . But if the Parliament were fully perswaded of the truth of the Government , yet there would be a new question , yea , and is , very learnedly discussed by our worthy Brethren Master Coleman and the Commissioner , how they could be perswaded of the imposing , and power of setling . For my part , if there must be an imposing of Government ( for I would have the State-consciences left to their liberty as well as Particular , and yet Truth to have the liberty of accesse unto them ) I would have the power of the Parliament laid up there : we have had too sad experience when it hath been given out from thence , and trusted too far . Paul referred himself thither , ( I stand , says he , at Cesar's Judgement-seat ) rather then to the Council of the Priests and Elders . Christ had more favour from Pilate a Romane Governour , then from Caiaphas the Priest . One word more . How can the Parliament properly be said to be fully perswaded , &c. unlesse they could freely signe it with a Jus divinum , or divine Right ? Nothing but Scripture and the Word , can properly fully perswade . Now if they cannot finde so much Scripture as to warrant it for Christ's Government , how can there be a purely Gospel-warrantable , a full perswasion , or faith , where there wants a word of faith to secure it ? And now I shall form your Argument you half made to my hand thus , and return another with usury . Your Argument is this : Those that set up a Government which they cannot be fully perswaded on , cannot but sin . But , the Parliament cannot be fully perswaded of this Government : Therefore , if they set it up , they cannot but sin . My proof is this , in behalf of your Argument . That conscience which is not wholly consenting , is not fully perswaded . But , such is the State or Publike conscience , viz. not fully consenting at this time : Therefore , the State-conscience is not fully perswaded . Note Because some are more for it , some are lesse for it . I prove the State-conscience not fully consenting . That conscience which hath not Scripture to secure it , cannot be fully consenting or perswaded : viz. as full perswasion is taken in the Word . But , such is the Publike conscience at this time concerning this present Government : viz. not fully perswaded from Scripture concerning it . Therefore , the Publike or State-conscience cannot be so fully consenting or perswaded . viz. in a Scripture-sense . Note . Because they which cannot call it a Government by Divine Right , are not secured concerning it by the Word ; and then , by consequence , are not so fully consenting , nor perswaded . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 9 & 10. If we take his reason to stand immediately against obedience , and so consequently against commands , &c. It is more formal , but still as feeble ; Repugnant to Religion and reason , against former Protestations , and the Covenant ; for some will always scruple , &c. Reply . Some of this might have been spared . Let us have as much reason , and as little reviling as may be . Your reason is . Because then neither Protestations nor Covenant of State can be administred ; for some will always scruple . So as here is the force of your reason ; Because Protestations and Covenants in the State are put upon a people unwilling and malignant , therefore Government should . First , a truth of Government , and the establishment of it , is but indirectly , unsutably , and disproportionably proved from Oaths and Covenants . Indeed , under the Old Testament , and in the State of Israel , Covenants were more agreeable to the way of that Church ; they were part of the Worship then ; and it was a way of obligation and engagement sitted more to the Policie of that Nation : They were a People or Nation of themselves , singled out from the world , and marked by a carnal Ordinance : and their Discipline was sitted to the whole Nation by God himself ; and so Covenants , &c. gathered them up from the world into their National way of Worship , &c. But now , the way of Church and Worship changing , and the Laws of such kinde of external Pedagogie ceasing , and a more inward and spiritual Law coming in , you might have done well , ere you took things thus for granted , to clear the way of Covenants under the Gospel , and not to prove one probable thing by another . Those of your way are against a little Church-covenant , and why not a great one ? For the imposing of Protestations now , &c. It is not my work here to discusse ; nor am I against any way of State-security that may consist with sound Prudence : and for the spiritual part of them , wherein men covenant in the things of God , let every one be fully perswaded in his own minde : That is the Apostle's rule , I am sure , whatever any say to the contray , and will stand . In civil things , I would have any way or designe of assurance that is fairly and justly Politick : in spiritual things , onely such ways of assurance as are Gospel-ways , and may sute with the New Testament-believers . And now you are to prove more then perhaps you thought on ; that is , to clear a Church-covenant , which many of your Way are against : for though you condemn it in some Churches , not of your Way ; yet a National Church-covenant you plead for . And how can this be both true and false , that a great Church-covenant is lawful , and a little one unlawful ? a National Church-covenant lawful , and a Particular or Congregational Church-covenant unlawful ? This onely by the way : To shew you how one may mistake his way in a mist : you were proving a Government , and now you are engaged to prove Chuch-covenants , which you are both for and against . And yet , after all this of Protestations and Covenants , there is no fair proof of establishing a Government , or imposing it in your way and designe from these . It is not safe going to the State for a Patern for the Church . If the State in certain seasons of unfaithfulnesse and unsettlement , contrive any way of security or assurance ( necessity is often a law-maker in States , yet not so in the Church ) will you from hence argue for a liberty in the Church ? Will you make Necessity your Gospel , your Law-giver there ? Necessity is sometimes a suspender of Laws in the Gospel , but no Law-maker . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 10. But I answer : I wonder an ingenuous man , as M. Saltmarsh is , should make such an Objection . Reply . These are good words ; and I hope you shall have no worse then you bring : yet we must speak truth . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 10. I answer : The Church-government is such as in the chief parts of it is from the Word . Reply . You grant then the Government is but in some parts warrantable by the Word : So was Episcopacy and Prelacy in some parts of it . There is not any false Worship or Way , but it hath some parts of truth in it . The great Image had a head of gold , &c. The Mystery of Iniquity sits in the Temple of God , &c. The Whore of Babylon sits in skarlet decked with gold , and precious stones , and pearls . Truth must be all one and the same , and homogeneal , not in parts . The Jews had the Law , but then their own traditions mingled . There is one Lord , one Faith ; not two . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 10. Things of lesser moment in it , though they are not directly from Scripture , yet not repugnant ; they are of Prudence , and agreeable to the best Reformed Churches . Reply . But , Why of lesser moment ? All things are of moment in spirituals . Indeed if they be such as be not the Gospel's , they are then , as you say , of lesser moment : and yet of moment too , in another sense ; for , Traditions of men make void the Commandments of God . Nor are grounds of Prudence any Scripture-grounds to rule by . Prudence hath let in more Will-worship then any thing . Prelacy had its Prudence for every New additional in Worship and Government : And if Presbytery take Prudence too , let the Reader judge what may follow . And what is that , Not directly from Scripture , yet not repugnant ? Surely Christ's rule is not such ; he opposes any Tradition to the Commandments of God . Not directly from Scripture , is repugnant to Scripture : such is the onenesse , entirenesse , indivisibility , and essentiality of the Truth . He that is not with me , is against me . And for the Reformed Churches as a rule ; that is to set the Sun by the Dyal , and not the Dyal by the Sun . We must set the Churches by the Word , and not Church by Church , and the Word by the Church . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 10 & 11. Because the practice of the Government belongs not to the peoples part , but to the Ministers and Elders . Because , so far as concerns the peoples compliance , they are to be instructed before they yeeld submission . Because if any remain unsatisfied , they are not to be put upon his Dilemma of sin or misery , or to be ruled with the rod , but meeknesse , 2 Cor. 4.21 . 2 Tim. 2.25 . Because the ignorance of the people generally , which he would have for a reason to suspend it , ought to be rather a reason for expedition , that they may practically know it : for while it is unknown , it is slandered , which might have been more amiable . Because his two Texts make not onely against the suspending for a time , but for ever . I wish he would preach such Texts as these to his people ; 1 Thess. 5.12 , 13. 1 Tim. 5.17 . Heb. 13.7 , 17. Reply . To your first , It belongs not to the people , &c. It seems then the people must be kept out from all intermedling . But I would have the people mark well what kinde of Government that is that sits upon the waters or people : I am sure Christ's Government takes in the people : and being once in a Church-way , they lose their old capacity for a new , and are raised up from people to Brethren , Act. 15. It is a worthy saying of Master Goodwyn and Master Nye , That the Clergie got the golden ball of Government amongst them ; and I censure it is not much mended in the Presbytery . But you say The people must be instructed , that is , they must onely know that they must obey . But are they called , and consulted with , and owned , as the Scripture holds forth , wherever there is any Church spoken of ? But what though instructed ? they are onely to be instructed and taught that this is the Government to which they must submit . So the people under Popery , Prelacie , &c. were instructed , with that limitation and restriction . But shall they be thus instructed and taught in it ? People , here is a Government which to some of us seemeth to be a Government according to the Word ; take it and examine it : if you be so perswaded , and that the Word holds it forth clearly , embrace it ; if not , do not obey any thing in blinde and implicite obedience . This were fair dealing with Conscience ; thus the Churches of Christ had their Government among them . To that of the pe●ples compliancy you speak on , it is not my work here to dispute the Interests of Elders and People distinctly ; but to make answer , that the compliancy and submission which are the duties you set out for the people , are such as they may easily see the Interest you allow them : viz. an Interest of compliance onely , and submission or obedience to what is done already ; not any liberty to examine and refuse . And when people are instructed , still your work remains to prove your Presbytery over congregations , or a Church gathered out of a Church to be over a Church ; which may upon the Presbytery more justly be recriminated then where you do so often recriminate , upon gathered Churches . And methinks to me it is unreasonable to tax any for church-gathering , when your very Presbytery is maintained by such a kinde of principle . What is your Classical , your Provincial , your National Presbytery , but a church gathered out of the rest , call it a virtual , or representative , or what you please ? For that of Meeknesse ; how meek i● will prove , and how meekly they shall be dealt with under it , we are not to judge by any promises of Meeknesse , but by Principles . Are the Principles such as naturally bring forth Meeknesse , or rather such as invest the Ministers and Elders with a power supreme and of dominion ? But what if such as your self , and some other godly meek of your Way , may propound nothing but wayes of meeknesse to your selves ? Can you undertake to secure the people for hereafter , and for all of the Way , and for the Way in its own nature ? There are things of meek appearances , as the Presbytery may be , yet prove not so . The Lamb in the Revelation had two horns , though a Lamb . Hazael could say , Am I a dog , that thou shouldest think so harshly of me , that I should kill the children in the womb , 2 King. 8 ? He as little suspected his own cruelty which the Prophet foresaw in his nature would come to passe , as you do in your Presbytery , which some , seeing into the nature of it , cannot but prophesie accordingly . You know Episcopacy began in meeknesse , and Bishops were brought in first for good and for peace : But how proved they ? Tyranny had ever a countenance of Meeknesse and Love , till it got seated in the Throne . So Absalon was very fair spoken in the Gate ; but how was he in the Throne ? For that of my Dilemma of sin and misery , which you say people shall not be put upon ; it may be some in your or another Classis may finde more meeknesse , a spirit of more love and ingenuity : But what is this to the nature of the Government , that some in it are well natured ? And for that of sin and misery ; surely , if the Presbytery be set on with power , many a one will be in that snare , partly in fear , and partly in an easie compliancy : For there are whole Parishes and Counties of this constitution : And you your self say , The wilfully weak must have the rod . And who will this be ? Such as are so in the judgement and interpretation of the Classis ? or how ? I would this were well cleared . And for your Scriptures of 1 Cor. 4.21 . 2 Tim. 2.25 . Shall I come to you with a rod , &c. and in meeknesse instructing , &c. These are full Scriptures for ordering any Church-Government : These are good Laws ; but then men must be rightly in Commission for ruling by them , and people rightly ordered and disposed for such rules , as in all other Laws and Kingdoms . But what is this to your purpose , till your Government appear to be all Christs ? To that of the ignorance of the people , which you would have for a reason of expedition rather then suspension , that they may practically know it ; I answer : In practical godlinesse , the Scripture-way is not so : Things must first be known , before practically known , or else the obedience can be but mixt , blinde , and Popish . Who can practically obey , taking practically in a Scripture-sense , that is , with knowledge , till they know and be perswaded ? Indeed in things civil , &c. or moral , practice may bring in knowledge ; habits may be acquired and gotten by acts ; a man may grow temperate by practising temperance , and civilly obedient practising civil obedience : But it is not so in Spirituals ; there , habits go before acts , spiritual infusions before practices . And for the amiablenesse of it , look into other Reformed Kingdoms , and see what power of godlinesse is there by reason of it . Do we not see the huge bodies of Nations very sinful , corrupt , formal ? For Scotland , our Brethrens preaching and watchfulnesse , it may be more powerful in a Reformation upon them , then their Government . And further , I deny not but a Government of that nature may much reform the outward man : So may a meer prudential Government , a meer civil Government , if sincerely executed . The Romans had a very moral people under their Yoke , when their laws were well executed . Prelacy and Bishops had a Government which was Antichristian , yet by an exact execution , could chastise the outward man in some measure . For your other reason , That my Texts make against not onely the suspending for a time , 〈◊〉 for ever ; I answer : It is true , Principles and circumstances considered : For if neither the Government be Christs , nor the people Nationally a Church , when can you settle it ? And if there be no Gospel-promises that people shall fall in so nationally as the Jews did , excepting some that concern the world in general , as Isai. 49.22 . then how or when will you settle , or what will you settle , or upon whom ? And for the Texts you commend to me for preaching , 1 Thes. 5.12 , &c. they all concern peoples obedience to their Elders and Rulers ; they are very material and pertinent to that : And I shall in requital commend some other back to you ; as those of not lording it over the heritage : Against preeminence ; as helpers of your faith ; of service , and ministery : We are your servants ; we intreat you , and beseech you , not seeking our own things , not for filthy lucre , but of a ready minde , &c. We must consider , Scripture must be taken in the wholenesse and entirenesse of it ; and we must not onely minde people of their obedience , but Elders and Ministers of their service , duty , Ministery , humility , self-denial , &c. And thus in a just distribution , deal out both to Ministers and people their measure . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 12. Strange that he should plead for a delay in establishment of Reformation from the covenant , wherein we are bound to endeavour it sincerely , really , &c. and more strange , under the title of Popery too , which in the next Article of Popery is disavowed . Reply . Not so strange as you make it ; for we are covenanted to endeavour a setting up the Government , not a Government ; that is , as it is expounded in the Article , the Government , or Reformation according to the Word of God , &c. not a Government or Reformation of any other sort . So as I plead for a delay onely in setting up a Discipline , not the Discipline : or more plainly , that the Discipline be such , that the covenanters may not violate that article , wherein they are bound to do every thing according to the Word , and so prove unfaithful in their covenant , while they are most zealous for it . There was such a kinde of mistake in the Jews , who would have stoned the Lord of the Sabbath in zeal to the Sabbath , and following after righteousnesse , yet did not attain to the righteousnesse of God . And for the title of Popery which I put upon such obedience ; which you say cannot be , because discovered in the next Article of the covenant : I answer , The Popery is not in the covenant , but in the Interpretations upon it , and the mistaken practice of it , which is the thing which I onely aver . O! How soon may we be Popish under a Covenant against it ! What are the maintenance of Ministers by Tythes ? Jewish and Popish undeniably , and yet no notice of this at all . I had as great a Tythe once as another , but I could not hold it so , neither by Covenant nor Gospel . Nor do I tax the Parliament , but those who are betrusted to commend Spiritual grievances to their Senate , &c. Brethren , let us lay down these grievances : Countreys and Families are burdened : Let not the Ministers have their hooks abroad in every thing of the peoples , like Elies sons . We know the kingdomes of Scotland and the Netherlands take their Tythes to maintaine their wars , and wil not let their preachers live by decimation , but by pension . And methinks you that professe ingenuity , should be so candid to distinguish where you see I distinguish , and not to force on constructions of this nature , which neither any thing of mine nor the Covenant will bear . And for what you say concerning the composers and penners of the Covenant , I am willingly silent : I would not aggravate any thing against a Brother , as you are , which might be onely a failing in your Pen . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 12. & 13. For that he saith of peoples implicite obedience , &c. of their being devoted to any thing the State sets up by Statutes , cannot be , for these Reasons : Because , as in the former Reason , Instruction must go before . Because , for that of their being devoted , it makes against setting up Doctrine as well as Discipline , and Authority of Parliament as well as Authority of Ministers : They , not Ministers , make Statutes . Reply . To your first , That instruction must go before , I have answered to this before , as you propounded it before : One word more will suffice . What kinde of instruction is it you mean , but authoritative compulsive instruction , such as the Schoolmasters , even your own instance , and here most pertinent , who teaches and whips every one of those that will not understand as well as he ? Something an unreasonable way of correction in matters of pure beleef & conscience , and best among boys , as your instance implies : Men of Scripture-consciences cannot bear it . And for that you say it makes against Doctrine as well as Discipline : Yea , in some sort it is granted ; for neither Doctrine nor Discipline ought to be forced but in a Gospel-way . And for that you say it makes against the Parliament , because they make Statutes : I answer , Nothing makes against a Legislative power , which reduces it to purer , and clearer , and freer Principles : And thus the Parliament very justly argues in all their Remonstrances touching the King , while they go about to reduce him to his just Rights , from those exorbitancies he suffers himself to be brought into . For instance : He that wishes the Parliament might onely proceed in a way , not grieving the Spirit , nor hazarding the persecution of Truth , nor oppressing any Gospel-principles , to which they are covenanted , not keeping on in any sin of former Parliaments , of severe imposing in matters of Religion so controvertible : Is not he , I say , that so wishes , a better friend to Parliaments , Laws and Statutes , then those of contrary Principles ? Nay , I must professe that to me that very one Article of Reforming to the Word of God , most providentially inserted , is an Article of Caution , both against imposing and punishing , lest through want of a clear discerning , we be found violaters of that we covenant to maintain , and ought to be sadly considered by all . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 12 , & 13. His second reason of experience , That the speedy setling , &c. takes little root but in the outward man , &c. concluding pathetically , Why , do not dayes speak , and multitude of yeers teach knowledge ? In answer , 1. That the fault was not in the over-speedy setling , but in the choice of a wrong Government . 2. Because Doctrine goeth on with Discipline , and so the power of the Word may go deep into the conscience , as a Schoolmaster who teaches and corrects . 3. Because the Discipline is an hedge or wall about the Doctrine , a goad to the Means of Grace , a curb to licentious courses ; though with many it go but to the outward man , that is not to be imputed to the Discipline , but their corruptions , &c. 4. Because where the Discipline hath been rightly chosen and setled , God hath blessed it with better fruits ; as in Scotland , where there is no Heresie nor Schism , &c. 5. For that of Elihu in Job , Why , do not dayes speak , &c. it makes not for his purpose ; but that Wisdom is with the ancient , and gray-headed to be heard before young or green-headed counsellors , &c. Reply . To your first , That the fault was in the choice of a wrong Government , &c. I answer , That is the fear now , lest there should be a choice of a wrong Government , and so the same fault should be committed again : And this very Government hath no Image of Divine Right upon it , nor hath it warrant in all things from the Word , as your self acknowledge . To your second , That Doctrine and Discipline go together &c. Yea , pure Doctrine and pure Discipline go rightly together : and if either be impure or unsound , there is so much the more danger : So as this is an Argument rather against you , because where Doctrine opens the conscience , and lets in any thing of Discipline but that of the pure Word , there is one evil onely mended with another . And for your Instance of a Schoolmaster , who both teaches and corrects : You know we are not to prove , but to illustrate by similitudes : And that of a Schoolmaster is a fitter illustration for the Pedagogy of the Law and that Discipline then the Gospels : You know the Apostle uses it onely to that ; The Law was our Schoolmaste , &c. Gal. 3. To that of your description of the Government that it is a curb , a goad , &c. I answer , There is nothing you say of Government in these words , but may be said of any civil Government , nay , of Prelacy , when it was in its primitive form : But that onely which you ought to say , and which onely differences it from all devised forms of men , as your Covenant binds you , and ought to be your onely reason for erecting and setting it up , is this : Is it the Scriptures form or model ? Is the people so in the exercise and capacity of it as in the Gospel times ? If so , then you prove something . And further : All this you say is true in a kinde too of Christs government ; but yet , in some sort communicable with devised governments . The only distinguishing and essential marks are not to be a curb and goad , but the Scriptures onely mark , and image , and some spiritual operations , &c. which no other devised form of man hath . To your other , of the blessings and blessed fruits in Scotland , that there is no Heresie nor Schism there , Let Master Coleman ( our learned and pious Brother ) speak for us both , from his experiences . And for that Kingdom , time will shew whether it will prove to be a blessing or no , to want that which you call Heresie and Schism . Surely to be free from Heresie and Schism , in a Scripture sense , it is such a blessing as the whole Gospel cannot patern . What ? No Heresie in a whole Kingdom ? No Schism in a whole Kingdom ? Never such a pure Church heard on ? Corinth , Ephesus , Colosse , Jerusalem , Antioch , all not comparable ? The worst I wish our Brethren there , is , that all were so pure as we hear on . Indeed Scotland had the honour to awaken us first in the work of Reformation and Liberty ; but lest Scotland should be puffed up , England shall have the glory ( I hope ) to improve that liberty to a fuller light , which some would close up too soon , in the narrownesse of a Presbytery . Methinks there is something of this nature considerable in the Lutherans , who though they follow the first Light in Germany , yet the Lord hath suffered them to stick there without a fuller Reformation , that the first may be last , and the last first ; For if a State be covenanted so close to the Word , they had need be favourable and free to all that are accordingly covenanted ; for each mans conscience is the Interpreter in himself of what makes for or against the Covenant he takes ; and by this very Covenant , you are all to be tender to consciences , because the Spirit of God ( not power of men ) can interpret the Will of God ; but in their civil and prudential things onely , they may intrepret themselves . To that of Job , That with the ancient is wisdom , and with the gray-headed ; which you apply in way of reproach to the younger , whom you call as it were green-heads : I answer , That the elder I esteem as fathers , and the younger we know are such in whom the Lord speaks more gloriously , as he himself saith , Your young men shall see visions , and upon your sons and daughters I will powre out my Spirit , your old men shall dream dreams . Now whether is it more excellent to dream dreams , or to see visions ? The Lord delivered Israel by the young men of the Provinces . Surely we may more safely hearken to the younger that see visions of Reformation , then to the elder that dream dreams of it onely . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 15 , & 16. There is great disproportion of times . Men were then converted from Paganism , and while they were so , they were uncapable . Our Congregations in England are professed Christians ; and though there be many not so wrought on by the Word , &c. That is rather a reason for the establishment of it , Ezek. 22.26 . 1 Cor. 4.21 . Prov. 23.13 , 14. Nor can Sabbath nor Sacraments be administred without i● . Reply . To that of the disproportion ( you speak on ) of times , and conversion , &c. I answer ; The Apostle's and primitive times are the times we are to look at for a patern and model . T is true , there is great disproportion ; for they were Apostles who gave the government then ; yet are but private Divines , as you say by me , if you be compared with them . For that of the conversion from Paganism to Christianity ; There is no such disproportion there neither , but that very proportion which our Saviour hath himself foretold , and set forth : For how doth a Iewish and Antichristian State differ ? Nay , how doth a Heathenish or Paganish State , differ from an Antichristian or Parochial State , as Parochial or Parish is in that notion ? Christ hath put them that are out of the Church under that very notion , Matth. 19.17 . and the spirit in the Revelation makes the Antichristian State to be as unlawful as a Paganish , and calls out equally from that as from the other , as by comparing 2 Cor. 6.17 . Revel. 18.4 . together will appear . So , as speaking of things and notions , I cannot but speak in a Scripture way ; nor am I uncharitable in this neither , though I thus speak ; I look on thousands in this State as godly beleevers : It is not the Pastors I write against , but the way . There may be a Moses in Pharaoh's Court ; a Ioseph in Potiphar's house ; a Cornelius , or devout man , though out of the Church ; a Luther even in Rome , till the Lord enlighten . So as government and discipline is a Churches right , and priviledge , not the worlds and nations priviledges , as so and then . Where are all your quoted Texts which are applied ? Surely that of Corinth , is the Churches ; and that of Ezekiel , and Proverbs , makes not for the discipline of a Church at all . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 16 , & 17. He makes a comparison betwixt material and spiritual buildings , as stone and timber should not be clapt together in the one , so one in the other . 1. Similitudes may illustrate , but not prove any thing . 2. Conformity betwixt material and spiritual things is not to be carried too far . 3. In material buildings , or the Temple , there is not onely squared stones , but peeces and rubbish which have their use ; not so in the spiritual ; all things there are homogeneal , and square , and living stones , &c. 4. Those that he accounts rough and unsquared , are in some conformity , though not so polished as others . 5. The best stones are not to be taken from the rest , to make up a building by themselves , as in separated congregations . 6. Let him shew any such example in the New Testament where when there was a mixture of holy and profane , as in Corinth , 1 Cor. 11.21 . the Apostles gathered out the holy part . 7. That of Axes and Hammers hath a mysterious truth in it , but not to his purpose , viz. That the spirituall building is built of the soft and secret whispers and motions of the spirit . Reply To that of the similitudes ; I fully agree with you , they illustrate better then they prove . To that of not carrying a conformity betwixt materialls and spiritualls too high ; I agree with you in that too , yet not so fully ; for Iesus Christ the great Prophet of the Gospel preached the glory of the Kingdom in materiall comparisons , in salt , water , leven , mustard seed , sowers , husbandmen , vines , vineyards , &c. To that of spirituall buildings , which you say are to be made up only of squared living stones ; I agree with you ; and here the Controversy might be ended : If your Temples shall be of living stones ; the Controversy is granted : But because I will not seem to mistake you , I beleeve the spirituall building you mean , and I , are not the same here : You mean as it appears , the invisible spirituall , or Church mysticall ; and yet there , all is not so Homogeneall and of the same kinde neither : The head of the body is both God and man , and one member like one star differs from another in glory . But , we are speaking of the spirituall building or Church here which is the Image of the Church above ; and as that is of true , reall , essentially spirituall living stones ; so the Church below is to consist at least of such as visibly and formally appear so ; and therefore the Apostle calls them in his Epistles Saints , and called to be Saints . And to that of your peeces of Rubbish in the materiall building ; It is true ; But what is that to Solomons Temple , which my comparision drives up to ? How much Rubbish can you prove in that type , nay , square stones , pure Cedar , gold , &c. to figure out the Gospel-building or Temple , as in Heb. 9. So as your rubbish is only in your own allusion , not in mine To that of your unpolished stones in your Parishes , which may fit the Temple now ; I answer : It must be then onely such a building as the materiall one you speak on , which is made up of rubbish and broken pieces : and if that be according to Christs patern , let these Scriptures in the margin , with many more , determine . And for their submitting in deed , there is a national , blinde , traditional obedience in them , I cannot call it Gospel-submission . To that of the best stones not to be taken out to make up a building , I answer , I am sure we are to take in no ill , unhewn , unpolished ; and the Scripture cautions and practice are clear , &c. then judge you what the stones must be . Nor do we so pick and chuse as if all stones were to be square alike , or equally polished ; that is not in any materiall building : Though we would take in no rubbish , yet we take in stones differently squared . As in the body one member differs from another ; the eye , and hand , and foot , &c. and members lesse honourable , 1 Cor. 12. so in the body of the Church , every one according to his measure , and as every one hath received . Nor do we stand so for the first polishing as you pretend . You make as if we set up such degrees of perfection as were onely the degrees of the invisibl or mystical body , when it is meerly in the degrees of visible Gospel-perfection . By this you would make the carnall to abhor , and the weaker to stumble and be offended ; as if the door of our Churches were not open for any such whom you imply , were of a temper meerly Spirituall , and of a size of our own , not the Scriptures . Let the doors of our Churches be as strait as you imply , I am sure your doors are set open , or rather cast off the hinges : but a pure Gospel-entrance is neither too wide nor too narrow . We know there is smoking flax and bruised reeds , measures of grace ; if they can willingly submit to Jesus Christ their Law-giver , and walk as members of the body , there they may receive polishing , and have honour , and building up , and many other degrees of perfection which the Saints of God obtain when they are in fellowship with the Father and the Son . To that of your chalenge that I should shew any such example in the New Testament of taking out the best , when there was a mixture of holy and profane ; I answer , Those were Gospel-Churches gathered by the Word and Spirit into Gospel-fellowship : and when you make your Parishes to appear such Churches , then I shall tell you more : till then , I suspend your chalenge . The world , and an Antichristian Nation , are both under Christs fan for gathering them out . To that of a mysterious truth you speak on in the Axes and Hammers ; I agree with you in that ; and because of the mystery I therefore quoted it . And whereas you sum up all the mystery into the soft whisperings and motions of the Spirit , you can hardly warrant us , or secure us that your interpretation is the whole minde of the Spirit , and that very interpretation of yours is part of it the very same I aim at , viz. to shew how the Gospel-building is softly gathered and made up by the Ministery of the Word and Spirit , and not with Axes and Hammers , tools of a compulsive , forcing , sharp , and authoritative nature , as , &c. Master Ley's Resolution , Pag. 17 , 18 , 19. For that of his , &c. where he makes Christs description of himself , &c. to be against the establishment , and the sutablenesse Christ presses for ; I answer : 1. If his reason be of force against a speedy Government , it is as well against a Government at any time . 2. That Christ in his own nature , and his Government , differ exceedingly . Christ came to suffer , Phil. 2.7 . 3. Neither is Christ so remisse as not to take upon him a Government . The Head must govern the Body . Nor so meek : He hath an iron Rod as well as a golden Scepter , Psal. 2.9 . Esth. 5.2 . and though he was sometimes a servant , &c. yet sometimes a Lord too , Joh. 2.14 . and though he be a Lamb , yet he hath a formidable mouth too , &c. Revel. 8.15 . 4. For his Scriptures produced , Matth. 12.19 . 1 Joh. 5.3 . they make nothing against a speedy , but against a grievous Government . And though his yoke be easie , yet not easie to flesh and bloud , Matth. 5.29 . and 16.24 . &c. as in self-deniall . 5. Nor hath his other place any sober sense in it , Matth. 9.17 . nor makes it against Government at this time , but any time . The wine will be alwayes new at the first ; and the longer delayed , the older will the bottles be . Reply . To that If against a speedy Government , then against a Government at any time , I answer , How do you infer that ? Nothing of those makes against the Government of Christ rightly constituted , and ordered and setled upon those called to be Saints . Indeed they make against any other Government at all times as well as now . Nor will there be alwayes such a People under Christs yoke as you think on . But you look further abroad then I , and in that we mistake one another . You look that whole Kingdomes and Nations should submit , and I look only for one of a Tribe , two of a City , &c. Your Horizon and the Scripture's , for Government , are not equall . To that of Christs Nature and Government differing so much , and therefore my Text prove nothing ; I answer : Every thing of Christ's , bears the Image of Christ . Every Truth of His hath something of Himself in it , who is Truth it self by way of excellency : I am the Truth , saith he . Every beam of light is light : Then how can Christ and his Government differ so as you pretend ? Surely , if we observe well , there is not any Truth but it partakes of Him who is The truth , and is a beam or sparkle of him . Truth is Homogeneal , and not so unlike and contrary dispositioned and natured as you pretend . And for your expounding the Text He shall not strive , &c. as a Prophecie ; you do well in part : but you know Prophecies have a latitude ; and Scriptures have not onely one main and principall , but many subordinate aims : so as though this Scripture concern his sufferings principally , yet it doth in a latitude set forth the nature of Him who is Truth ; and in Him we may see how those things which are pretended for truth hold proportion . To that of Christ the Head , and taking the Government of his Body , &c. I answer . It is true , Christ is a Head , but he is not a Head to every Body . He will have a Body proportionable to his Head . Is a Nation of all sorts a fit Body for such a Head ? Is he not a pure , holy , glorious Head in his Gospel-dispensation ? and is a Body so leprous , so wicked , so formal , so traditionally and Antichristianly corrupted , a fit Body ? Shall I take the members of my body , saith Paul , and joyn them to an harlot , to make one flesh ? God forbid . What then shall the Head do with such Members ? To that of His ruling with a Rod of Iron as well as a Golden Scepter , Psal. 2. Esth. 5. I answer . And doth He rule any in his Church with his Rod of Iron , who were not called in first by his Golden Scepter ? And for that of his Iron rod in Psal. 2. that is spoken of Christ , not as King of his Church , but of Nations . And that of Esth. 5. what is that Golden Scepter to Christs ? unlesse you bring a Text only to prove that there is such a thing as a Golden Scepter in the Scriptures . For your other Texts of Christs being a servant and a Lord , a Lamb and terrible ; you only prove what I grant , that he is more a King and a Lord in his Government then in any other of his Gospel-dispensations : But all this will not prove the Lordship of such a Presbytery or Government . Certainly you intend it a terrible Government , because you bring in those Texts that have all the judgement and severity in them which Christ threatens to the Nations and Kings of the earth , not to his Churches . Will you make Christ rule in his Church as he doth in the world ? well , let your Presbytery enjoy the Iron Scepter , while the Churches of Christ enjoy the Golden ; and try if you ruine not more then you rule , and break not more then you bow . To that of Matth. 12.19 . 1 John 5.3 . The yoke easie , &c. they make not against a speedy , but a grievous Government ; I answer , I cannot expresse my self better then in your own words , They make against a grievous Government , which is all I aim at in the Quotation . And whereas you say the yoke is not easie to flesh and bloud , so say I too ; it is very burdensom , and the Commandements grievous to the unregenerate ; and therefore I prove from hence , that it is onely a fit and sutable yoke for the Saints , and a Commandement for them . And there is the same proportion of the outward government to the outward man that there is of the other spirituall Laws in the Gospel to the inward man , and none but the Saints can delight in either . Men are to be spiritually moulded and framed to the Law of Gospel-discipline : that kind of Discipline is not like your civil Discipline : this way of Discipline you would have , is too Politick and Nationall ; it takes in a people to subdue as the Laws of Civill Policie , which finding a people unsubdued , subdues them : So doth not Christ as we read of ; the dispensation of the Word ( not the government ) subdues . And thus with much ado , you only prove them to be as I intended them , no Commandements for the mixed and unregenerate , or in a word , Christs government no Nationall government . To that where you say , Nor hath his place any sober sense in it . Matth. 9.17 . The new wine will be alwayes new , and the longer delayed , the older the bottles will be . I answer : I wonder that one of your experience in the Majesty of the Word , should be so pleasant with a Scripture allegory , because the Scripture is of wine . You jest on it , as if it had made the sense lesse sober , I am sorry my younger pen should reprove the aged for jesting , which the Apostle sayes is not convenient . And truly it is not comely for the servants to play upon the Master of the Feast , or any thing in his house , especially upon his wine , which alludes so to his blood , and which he hath promised to drink with us new in his Fathers Kingdom . Nor will the wine be alwayes new to those that are renewed as they ought to be indeed ; for your Parishes which you call old Bottles , I am sure the wine , or pure government , is too new for them . Nor will the Bottles be older , as you say , the longer the government is delayed , if the power of the Word be there for renewing them . But you say , What sense is this ? What logicall connexion ? I answer , that shall appear there is sense enough , and connexion enough , and Logike enough , though I had rather have more Scripture and lesse Logike ; for all I aim at , is what the Scripture aims at , that the bottles should be fit for the wine , the necks for the yoke , and the subjects for the commands . Master Ley's Resolution . Pag. 23. & 24. To that of his , That Jesus Christ could as easily have set up his government by miracle , had there been such a primary &c. necessity , &c. 1. The acts and times for divine Providence towards his Church are various . God had his Church at first and no written Word for it till the Law was write , and Moses wrote , &c. And God added to the morall Lawes , ceremoniall and judiciall , divers of which were not executed till forty yeeres after , at their coming into Canaan ; so far was God beforehand . 2. Whereas he saith , Christ could as easily have setled the government by miracle ; we grant it , yea , and more ; without a miracle ; and yet more that he did so , in Matth. 16.19 . Joh. 10.23 . Matth. 18.15 , 16 , 17. 3. If Christs delay of Government must be our example , then as well for the Anabaptisticall delay of Baptism till his age Luke 3.23 . nor was it Johns office to set up a Government , but to prepare the way , &c. And Christs publike Ministery lasted but four yeers , or three yeers and a half , and he began then to set up Government . Reply . All your proof reaches but to this : 1. That God delt variously with his Church . They had first no written Word , and after , a written Word . 2. That Christ could have setled his Government by miracle , but did not . 3. That Christs delay of Government must be no more our example then his Baptism . My proof was to shew there was no such morall necessity of the setling , because it was not setled . Now , what have you overthrown here ? Not that Christ suspended his Government , and the setling of it ; for , that you grant with me , and prove it more at large then I did : so as all your rest will be answered in two particulars . 1. To that of Gods Church and Government before his Word , &c. which you would insinuate as some advantage to your setling , &c. What is that to Gods dispensation now ? if there wanted a Word , there was a supplement of vision and dreams , &c. And I hope you will not go before the Law , so much as you do for a Patern : You go too far when you go to the times of the Law : You have a Prophet now to hear in all things , Act. 3.22 . 2. To that of Baptism to be delayed as well as Government from Christs example : I cannot dispute that here , Master Tomes will satisfie you at large in his learned Examen , where he hath made work for a whole Assembly , That he knowes not but it may be delayed till they be of yeers . But , to answer you in your scope : You bring this to prove , That Christ is not to be imitated in all things . I grant it . But what is that to prove that Christ setled not his Government when he began his Ministery , or Johns ? For the busines on your part is to find out , either that the Government was setled before , or with the Ministery ; or there was as much necessity of it as of the Word ; but for some reason ; and not from any thing in the nature of the Government , but some other extrincicall reason ; it was delayed : Which ought not to take place now . And this is yet to prove ; al your proof summed up , reaches not to this But you imply , The will of God in his dispensations was the cause . But the wil of God in his dispensotions carries a rule of righteousnesse along with it , and of spirituall reason . And in Gospel dispensations and extrincicall proceedings of Gods will , you will find a rule and golden reed of righteousnesse measuring the Temple ; and every dispensation , and even this of suspending Government , hath its rule in the Gospel , that a word of obedience must precede and go before a form of obedience , and a word of faith before the obedience of faith , and living stones before a living Temple . Master Ley's Resolution . Pag. 24. & 25. Whereas he saith the gifts for Government were not given till Christ ascended , it is answered : 1. That he ascended 43. dayes after his ministration ; and that added to the yeer forementioned , makes but small difference , &c. 2. He put his Apostles upon neither of these offices , preaching or governing , without competent gifts and qualifications . 3. For the modell of it , which he saith people fell under as they were capable ; If he mean the written modell in the Word , though it were young in Christs time or his Apostles , yet not now , we have had 1500. yeers since . Why should that which is so old in constitution , be thought too soon for execution ? And besides Scripture directions , we have had many yeers the Paterns of it i● ma●y Reformed Churches . 4. It hath by fast and slow degrees been brought in , as both in debates of Assembly , Parliament , &c. And so for execution too , First an Ordinance for ordination , and then a Directory , &c. Reply . You prove here , 1. That Christ gave gifts when he ascended , and not any long time in all his ministration and sending gifts . 2. That he qualified his Apostles for government and preaching . 3. That the government of Christ now so old , should be seen set up as in other Kingdoms . 4. That it proceeded by degrees in its setting up here . Now all this thus gathered up , proves not any thing against my assertion , that Christ proceeded by degrees in his Ministery , and giving out his government ; but rather strengthens my assertion . And for your Arguments for setling implyed in these particulars : 1. That Christs government was but a while in bringing forth , the ye●rs considered . 2. That the government in the Gospel being now so old , ought to be soon executed . 3. That the Paterns of it are in other Reformed Churches . I answer to all these in as few words : 1. Prove your Argument first to be Christs , the particulars , and entirenesse accordingly , and then I shall allow you your Argument ; but you grant it to be but partly Christs , and partly the Assemblies , or of Prudence . 2. You must prove but the same again , that the government you have , is the government , there withall Gospel-necessaries take in ; else , though the Gospel-government be never so old , yours is but new ; and this Argument is no better then the first . 3. Prove the other Reformed Kingdoms to be Reformed Churches , as Churches are taken in the Gospel , and their Paterns pure Gospel-Paterns , which by your own you acknowledge to be in part prudentiall or human as well as Evangelicall and Divine ; and then your reason may have some force in it . Till then , you see with all you can do , you cannot prove but Christs government was divers yeers in bringing forth by himself and his Apostles ; and so by your own account , you ought not to be before them , unlesse you assume fuller Revelations of truth then they did . Let the Reader judge whether any of these makes for the setting up your government , or the taking down my reasons . To your last ; That this Reformation hath proceeded by slow paces and degrees . What ? Would you prove it by its slow proceeding to be Christs government , and therefore to be setled ? That were a strange kinde of reasoning : Because Christ proceeded by degrees in giving out the glory of his Kingdom here , therefore everie thing that proceeds by degrees , is Christs government . Here is some kind of Logick indeed , as you say , but no Scripture : as for instance ; He that saies such a one is a living creature , saies tru●ly ; He that saies such a one is a beast , sayes he is a living creature : Therefore will it follow , He that sayes such a one is a beast , sayes truly ; So , He that sayes Christs government proceeded slowly , saies truly ; He that sayes your government proceeded slowly , saies truly ; Therefore , He that saies your government is Christs government , sayes truly . What have you got now by your Logick ? Whereas you say in your second , Christ gave gifts and qualifications for government ; I answer , If you and your Parishes have such gifts and qualifications as in Ephes. 4. 1 Cor. 12. set it up when you please ; if not what haste ? Master Ley's Resolution . Pag. 26 , & 27. Now to his Rules and Considerations of Prudence ; The more time ( saith he ) for trying spirits , the lesse danger to that State , &c. I answer 1 It is the dutie of a State not only to try spirits , but to rule them . And rather to rule them , than to try them , Prov. 29.15 . and the longer they live without the yoke of Discipline , the more enormous . And for trying all things , there is a due proportion of time to be observed . Though it hath been the ill hap of our Church , &c. to have the government fluttering on the lime-twig at Westminster , when it should be on the wing of actuall execution in all over the Kingdome . 2. He makes it a dangerous matter for the State to involve it selfe into the designes of Ecclesiasticall power . But unseasonably applyed to Presbyteriall-government , because both Popish and Prelaticall power is abjured by i● by Covenant . 3. Whereas he saith , There can be no danger in the not too sudden incorporating &c. since Moses is not aliv●&c . a new star may arise . It is a groundlesse conceit refuted already ; and for that of Moses &c. he bewrayeth his d●signe to debarre the government for ever ; and for that of a new star arising , it prepares the way for some Barchochebas , who pre●ending to be J●cobs star mislead th●J●wes , and was called ●sword● the son of a I●e . Reply . You prove against me , 1. That people ought to be ruled rather then tried , &c. 2. That some time is to be allowed for triall . 3. That the government hath been fluttering too long at Westminster . 4. That there is no danger to feare the Presbyteriall government , which hath abjured Popery &c. Dominion by Covenant . 5. That some of this is refuted already . 6. That my designe is to debarre it for ever . 7. That a new star is a misleading star . To your first I reply ; It is true in civill government , rule there rather then try : But what is that to Church-government , or Discipline ? The rule there , is the will of God , which is the onely rule in government , and legislative power in the Church ; and that is , Try all things before either you rule or be ruled . To your second ; Some time you will allow ( I see ) for triall ; but you ought not to measure and deal out time but by the Standard of the Word ; and before you call for such quick obedience as you do , and as the Apostles did , prove your power , and truth , and conclusions , and by such Apostolicall and infallible evidence , and then it is our sin if we submit not . And let the time you deal out not be like that of States and Armies in their Treaties , who are finall and peremptory in the seasons they set : You cannot set such time ; the Spirit breaths when & where it lifteth . To your third ; What is that to the present Discipline what the Covenant abjures ? Covenant and Discipline are two distinct things ; a Covenant may abjure in word , what yet a government may practice indeed . Nor is it enough to abjure Popery in grosse , but in every part and parcell . And now having abjured , it is not enough to sit downe in that satisfaction that we have sworn against Popery ; but to search out , lest we be forsworn in the practice of it . Such a duty begins from the time of abjuring ; and it lies not only upon the State to find out Popery ; but every one in his own particular is ingaged , you and I , and every Covenanter : and therefore seeing you have ingaged thousands by conscience against Popery and to endeavour &c. you are bound to give the same conscience liberty to bring in its result and enquiry ; els you make it a snare and trouble to Israel , and not a Covenant . And now I professe here a just and undeniable liberty by Covenant to bring forth all of Popery , Prelacy , or truth they know . To your other ; Why should ye speak of the governments fluttering on a lime-twig at Westminster ? Sure the State or Parliament may deserve better of any of the Assembly , then to be thought their retarders or lime-twigs : How have they honoured them above their Brethren , printing their ingagements to the world before every Sermon , calling them into so neer a capacity with themselves ? though Divines have been unfortunate before , and their Predecessours raised in the curtesie and piety of former States and Parliaments into a law and power above their Brethren ; which I hope our Brethren will remember and beware of . But because I would not wholly interpret you into so dangerous a sense against the State , it may be you may call your dissenting Brethren the lime-twig ; which if you do , you are contrary to your own Argument ; for you argued but lately the slow proceeding into a very warrantable and Scripture way : and will you now mar all , and defile your Argument with a lime-twig , and bewray rather your slow proceeding to have been of constraint then conscience ? To your other ; That this is already refuted : I say no more ; but as you have formerly refuted , so I have formerly answered . To your other ; That my designe by that of Moses is to debar it for ever . I answer : Yea for ever would I debar a government not clear from the Word , and not one haire would I debar a government that had the name of Christ in Scripture-letters engraven upon it , pure Gospel-principles and proceedings . To your other , that a new-star is to prepare for a misguider , and your story of Barchochebas upon it , it hath more lightsomnesse then light in it . But why should you be so pleasant with my expression of truth by a star ? it is the very allegory of the spirit . Christ calls himselfe the morning-star , the light which springs from above . The Spirit is called the day-star arising in our hearts ; and the Spouse is attired in a crown of twelve stars . Nor do I call to any to look for a new created star of truth , but an old , yet new appearing star to us ; one of those stars in the Gospel-Firmament , which the Clouds of Tradition and Ignorance hinder us from seeing : And now , what of your story ? But what way is most likely to misle●d ? That which bids you prove and try all things , and accordingly follow ? or that which saith , This is the way , compell them to come in , not only as the Gospell compells in the Parable by a Spirit of power , but by a civill power ; not a power of word only , but of state too : and so twisting the Gospell with the Law , and humane Authoritie with divine ? Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 27 , 28 , 29. To his other prudentiall rule , which is , That hee makes the Civill and Eccesiasticall power so linked that if there be motions in the one , there will be no quietnesse in the other ; I answer , 1. He aimes at the perpetuall prohibition , not at a temporall forbearance onely . He carries it on so , as if we must allow him the authority of a Politick Dictator . 2. What if they reciprocate interests ? must the Civill State leave everie man or Congregation to be governed ? Judg. 17.6 . 3. Because disturbances are communicated , therefore the Civill State ought to settle the Ecclesiasticall , that it may enjoy its own peace . And for that he saith of the Toleration of the Protestants of France ; Henry the fourth being a Protestant , though a revolter , and recovering his rights by the arms of Protestants , he could do no lesse in humanity then allow them their Religion ; though now tolerated , because the trustiest friends to the Crown of France . For that of the State being most free where the Conscience is least straitned : If free in indulgence to all Religions , he complies with the Author of The Bloudy Tenet : If free from Commotions , experience in severall Ages and Countreyes prove the contrary . For that of his Parable of the Tares and the Wheat : If there must be such mixtures tolerated , what warrant have they to pluck the Wheat from the Tares , nay , Wheat , from Wheat , in their new gathering Churches ? Reply . You prove against my reason the compliance and nearnesse of the Civill and Eccesiasticall power , occasioning motions in each other . 1. By the authoritie I assume of a politike Dictator . But what doth my assuming prove against the compliancy and motions of the two Powers ? This is no proofe against the two Powers of Church and State , but against me . I hope you conceive not they are concentred in me a private Divine , as you call me ; nor would I give any thing out in way of Magistrality , but evidence : you and I , and Assemblies of men , are not infallible . 2. By my aiming at the perpetuall prohibition . But what doth this prove against the compliancy and motions in the two Powers ? This is still against me , not against my reason . And further , because I suggest a reason of not embodying the Civill and Ecclesiasticall Powers too suddenly , therefore , saith he , I aim at a perpetuall prohibition . How doth this follow ? I aime to prohibit it , rebus sic stantibus , therefore for ever ? I aim to prohibit it , because as yet neither the Discipline appears to be all Christs , nor the Parishes fit matter for Churches ; therefore I prohibit it for ever . Is this good reasoning ? They that do over-desire the enjoying any thing , do measure time by eternity , and weeks by Ages , and take a little deferring for everlasting . Why is his Charets , saith Sisera's mother , so long in coming ? 3. Because they reciprocate Interests , therefore is everie Congregation to be left at liberty ? Yea , at liberty in Spiritualls ? and not as they will , but as the Gospel perswades the will . Yea , and because they reciprocate Interests , therefore to be left at liberty , say you . Rather , because they reciprocate Interests , to be cautious how they mingle and incorporate Interests too soon . And if any just liberty may arise to the people of God from such State-pauses , why not such a liberty ? Should the Churches bee ever persecuted , and have no rest ? It was not so under the first Persecution , Then had the Churches rest . Because , say you , disturbances are communicated , therefore settle the Ecc●●si●sticall , that the Civill may enjoy peace . But can you secure the Civil from the Ecclesiastical in peace ? ought you to have a State-being or a Church-being first ? Is this good reasoning ? Because disturbances are communicated , therefore order it so , that the Civil may be within the Line of Communication , or of Ecclesiasticall disturbances , by clasping and incorporating them together . So as it followes better thus : Because they reciprocate Interests , therfore take heed how you establish , because the State cannot but establish a way something of its own , in the Ecclesiasticall . To that of Henry the fourth's humanity which you presse , because the Protestants helpt him by arms : I answer ; Let but the same humanity be copied out by the State here , and presse for it here as you do there , and we are agreed . Surely you have the same and greater ingagements . Your Brethren whom you call Schismaticks and Hereticks , have not been sparing of Arms and Blood in the high places of the field , and in a Cause more glorious , with successe more admirable , with cou●age as gallant : And sure they have been found as trusty friends to this State , as the Protestants to the State of France . You say , That State is rather free in Indulgence , as the bloody Tenet , then free from Commotions , &c. For the freedome contended for by The bloudy Tenet , when I undertake to prove his freedom at large , then put us together ; till when , deale fairly . I could as easily draw something of yours under the Line of Prelacie ; but I would not force any mans notions , much lesse yours . You see of what stamp the Libertie is I contend for . And for Commotions , let the world judge , if all the broyles and combustions kindled not from the Coals on the Altar , and from the flame of an Ecclesiasticall Interest , such as you contend for . For that of the Tares and Wheat , &c. where you charge us with mixture tollerated , or rather with plucking up Wheat from the Tares , &c. in Church-gathering : I answer , Wee tollerate no mixture , but in the world where Christ himselfe tollerates , as in the same Parable ; not in the Church . And for our plucking , it is not plucking , but gathering and calling out : Your words are of more violence then the Word will bear ; that is , more properly plucking which is a destructive pulling ou● a bloudy Separation , a plucking of Persecution ; such a plucking as some contend for , and would requite our gathering with plucking , and take us all not for a mixture of Tares and Wheat , but all for Tares . You say we gather out the Wheat ; it is well you observe that wee have Wheat amongst us , which some of your Brethren will scarce allow us ; and you verie hardly . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 29 , 30 , 31. His other politike consideration is this , Our Parties , or dissenting Brethren now together , and clasped by Interest , &c. I answer . 1. No clasping in the Camp must loose us to division in the Citie . 2. Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politikes adviseth to represse factions , &c. 3. The delay hath occasioned a multiplication of Heresies & Schisms . 4. Many disposed to division , heighten their spirits to contumacie and contempt . To that other of his , it is possible while time is given , opinions may be sooner at peace . I answer . 1. Possibilitie is no plea against probabilitie , nay , cleare experience , that by the Brethrens amiable carriage , they have driven on their designe with a politike activitie , and gained more by their adversaries slownesse , than the goodnesse of their cause . To that of his Fire let alone under wood , and so to dye out , &c. I answer . 1. Will fire under drie wood quench it selfe , or the setling of a Government be as the Bellows ? 2. The contrarie is plaine by examples of Anabaptists and other Sectaries in Germany , whom Luther at first mediated for with Frederick Duke of Saxony ; but after he was glad to stir up the Princes and people of Germany for extinguishing a common combustion . To that of his , &c. The contentions of Brethren are like the Bars of a Castle , Prov. 18.19 . I answer . 1. This is his seal to his politike Aphorism : But will the bars of a Castle be taken by letting alone ? We have not found it so in our wars , &c. Reply . To your first , That we must not clasp in the Camp , and divide in the citie . You say well ; we are to agree , or clasp , both in camp and citie , and to divide in neither . To your second , Mr. Saltmarsh in his Politikes , I told you before , I dare not allow my selfe the priviledge of an Aphorism of light then , when it was rather night than day with me , as I told you . You know Pauls regenerate part or law of his mind , quarrelled with the law of his Members ; so doth mine ; so Luther , Augustine , &c. To that of delay occasioning heresies , Whether may not your setling things thus , be as great an heresie as you complaine against ? Be sparing . You may call these Truths , which you now call heresies ; Paul preached that doctrine after , which before he destroyed , To that of many heightning their spirits into contempt . Do not aggravate against your Brethren ; remember your owne professed ingenuitie , in these words , I would not excite Authoritie to needlesse severitie . To that of the Brethrens politike advantage on your slow pace , and amicable carriage , as you say . Give not over your amicablenesse for that , their policie is no warrant against your dutie ; and if they be politike , blame them in print : For my part , I hate to see in any too much of man in the businesse of God ; but if some of the Brethren be politike , what is that to the rest , who wait for the Spirit in the simplicitie of their owne ? But it may be you mistake the advantages , and put their encreasing upon Brethrens policie , which is the power of the Gospell . You know in Christs time many beleeved on him , and the people went after him ; and yet not policie , but his power gathered them . To that of your fire and dry wood , and that your setling a Government would be no bellows . Who are the dry wood you mean ? and what fire ? and what by the bellows ? If it be this , that the setling a government will quench our contentions ; yea , and it may quench more then it ought , even something of the Spirit may be quenched by it : Persecution may put out many a candle of the Lords lighting , and many a coale kindled from his Altar . But take heed there be not more fire in the bellowes then in the wood . To that of the Anabaptists and Sectaries , quenched by Luthers mediation : I dare not believe your Historian , nor take all against them from the Pen of an enemie . He that takes the Parliaments Battells from an Oxford Pen , shall read nothing but Rebellion , rather then Religion , And me thinks I observe much here in your observation to the contrarie : We may rather think that Germany is a field of bloud to this day for shedding the blood of so many consciences for some points of diff●rence . And for Luthers mediation against them ; Look well , and tell me how much the Lutherans there have advanced in the Reformation : Have they not rather stood like Ioshua's Sun , where he left them ? Let England take warning by Germany . To that of the Brethrens contentions , which are like bars of a Castle ; and must not then be let alone ( you say ) as in our Wars : Yea go on , take these offended Brethren , these Castles , in your militarie way ; but then , let your Warfare be spirituall , your weapons not carnall ; put on the armour of light , &c. and take them by a Gospelsiege , and we are satisfied . But if you take them with the power of the Magistrate , with sword and staves , as they took Christ ; if you come in this Gospel-Controversie to take them as the Parliament takes in their townes and cities , by force of arms and compulsive Artillerie , as your instance seems to imply ; take heed lest you shed more spirituall blood to that under the Altar that never ceases to cry How lo●g , Lord , how long ? Master Ley's Resolution . Pag 32. To that he saith , We have not yet any experience of our new Clergie . Answ . How can there be experience of them , if there be no government to try them withall ? Reply . So as you will have an hazard run both in State and Church for a new experiment upon the Ministers : but sure , your Statists will tell you , it is not safe trying experiments with States ; they are too vast bodies for that . What think you of that Physitian that will cast his Patient into a disease , to try a cure on him ? You know the old morall adagie , Turpiùs ●jicitur quàm non admittitur hospes : One is sooner kept out , then cast out . Master Ley's Resolution . Pag. 32. To that , It is not safe trusting a power too far into those hands . Answer . He need not much feare , the government will be so qualified , so disposed for the persons that manage it , &c. Reply . These are faire promises . It is pity that government should ever be set up , that cannot tell beforehand how well it will carry it selfe . Oh I saith Absolon , If I were King , it should not be thus . But , what is a qualified government that is not Christs ? I can never hope to gather grapes of thorn●s , or figs of thistles . Sure it can never be well for the trees of the Forrest when the Bramble will reigne . Master Ley's Resolution . Pag. 33. There are many of note who affirme the best way to suppresse the multiplicaity of Sects is to let them have scope , and they will run themselves out of breath ; but I cannot give my Vote , false teachers are not be tolerated , no , not for an houre , Gal. 2.5 . Reply . I would there were more such , of that minde ; I am sure it is safest and soundest . It is safest , there is no such danger in that of crucifying Christ in ignorance , of fighting against God . And soundest , for so they die out most naturally by their owne unsoundnesse , without noise and commotion . Sometimes the cure makes the greater disease , when the cure is not naturall but violent . For that of Pauls withstanding Peter to the face , I allow you all such Gospel-wayes of contention , so you onely withstand them to the face , and doe not as the high Priest did command them to be smitten on the face . Oppose with words as Paul did , but not with swords , taking and turning the Edge of Authority against us . Master Ley's Resolution . Pag. 33. We experience , saith he . But where reads this Writer this phrase ? Reply . You criticise on words ; I cannot take time to do so ; I wonder you ( an Assembly-man ) have leasure for that ; this is logomac●ice , or word-fighting : and why not We experience ? You know our times have found out such wayes of elegancy in t●e English , though I thought not any such thing when I wrote : But why doe I triffle too ? To your matter . Master Ley's Resolution , Pag. 33. But it appeareth by his &c. Whether it be safe to commit the power , &c. That to commit any power or establish any government , especially the Presbyteriall , is too soone or suddenly done , if done at all . Reply . Yea , and it is not too suddenly if done at all , and not done as it ought , or in Christs way ; I am for any thing of Christs , when , and where , and how soon you will . Master Ley's Resolvtion . Pag. 34. We may say as he , Some may like be the ten yet others like the two Brethren . For two ambitious Presbyterians , there may be ten more modest . Reply . But how come you by such plenty of the better sort ? It is not thought by most of your way . I am sure some of your way were taking care how to furnish their Presbytery , their 10000 Parishes . And this I know , that if there were such plenty , Why do you make shift with so many of the Episcopall stamp , who keep their Parishes , and resolve while they live , to try out all turns of government , rather then turn off a tythe of two hundred per annum ? But I beleeve the English Presbytery and Prelacy are well agreed in that . Master Ley's Resolution . Pag. 34. Besides , the Presbyteriall government is framed directly according to the Resolution of our Saviour . Reply . Not so directy neither . It is rather directly according to the prudentiall designe of your Ass●mbly , as you say : so as all yet is but So you say , and we say the contrary ; there is You say , and We say Authority , not Scripture and evid●nce , carries it on your side : And let the Reader judge betwixt us . Indeed you are able to prove by the Magistrate that your Presbytery is some of it Christs way : That is an Argument of power , not of Scripture . Master Ley's Resolution , Pag. 34.35 , & 36. To that he saith , The Controversie is hottest abou government , &c. It may be so without fault in those that are for it , but not without crime in those that oppose it . To that of his , Is it good parting with the stakes ? The Question presupposeth evennesse betwixt parties , whereas the difference is betwixt government and no government . The high Court of Parliament and all the Orthodox Churches &c. on the one side , and a small inconsiderable party on the other . Nor is it so much injury to resolve for government against them , as the Bishops , who had possession of Prelacy by a prescription legally , &c. To that of his , It is to be feared there is too much of man : It is likewise to be in those who despise government , &c. And if the Bias run most to this truth of government ( as he saith . ) it is but as it should be . The Bishops government being put downe , it is necessary some other should be set up , and before all the Presbyteriall . And if ( as he saith ) some other truths are wholly set by , it may be the fault of those who set themselves too much against government , I am sure not in such as are for the Presbytery . And for his caution as he concludes with , I wish he had had more caution in his minde , and his paper ; he had had few faults , and a shorter refutation would have served . Reply . You say , The Controversie may be hottest , yet no fault in those that are for it , but against it . But , is all the heat in those that oppose it ? Nay sure . Witnesse the importunity , the petitioning of your party , &c. we silent all the time . You say , The difference is not so equall but betwixt government and no government ; Parliament and all Orthodox-Divines against an inconsiderable party . Indeed it is unequall : It is betwixt a government of man of Prudence , as you confesse , and a Scripture-government ; betwixt an huge Nationall Government , and Christs little flocke , or Church . Nor is it a Controversie with the high Court of Parliament ; we contend not with them , but humbly petition and represent the truth unto them : but this is the old way to winde in under the wing of Authority , and to engage them . But they are wise to discern , and not to be engaged as their Predecessors were by the Church-men , as they called them ; there are too many sad stories . But what of our inconsiderable party ? We had rather be a few with truth , then a multitude against it . And how inconsiderable soever we are in number , the stone cut out without hands may fill the earth : the Kingdome of Christ , and the Worlds , are not so one as you would make them . Vnus homo totius orbis impetum fustinuit ; It was said of Luther ; He was but one against a world . Your non-conformists were but inconsiderable to the Kingdom of Prelacy almost . A pebble in the hand of David , may doe more then a mighty speare in the hand of Goliah . You say , The Bishops had a better prescription even by Law for their government then we . But how is this ? Is a legall prescription better hold then a Gospel prescription ? Is it more priviledge to be founded upon a Statute , or Act of Parliament , then Scripture ? You say , If too much of man be in this Controversie , it is in those that oppose and despise Government . But what is that to our Controversie ? We are not of those that speak evil of dignities , or despise governments , unlesse you count your Presbytery to be that government and digniny spoken on by the Spirit ; and that remaines to be proved : That which cannot be proved to be a Scripture-government , cannot challenge a Scripture-law to defend or secure it . You say , If the Byas run most towards government , it is but as it should be . Yes , if towards a Scripture-government ; else it is as it should not be , and not as it should be . You say , The Bishops government 's put downe , some must be set up ; and that is Presbytery . But there is one set up already , a civill Parliamentary government ; and will you set up another above that ? or cordinate with that ? Will you set up one government to rule another ? or tutour another ? And must you needs set up as large a Dominion as the civill Power hath ? Must our Presbytery be full as ample , as high , and supreame , as our Parliament ? Will no lesse territory or Kingdome serve it but all England ? Whole Nations ? Must Christs government be just as broad and long as the worlds ? You find not the golden Read for the Temple of that length . Now Reader , judge , Which government affects Dominion ? Which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it ? Poor Scripture-government can be content to sit downe in a Village ; To the Church in thy house , saith the Spirit ; In a City as Corinth ; and over but a few there , the Saints onely in fellowship ; to the Church in Corinth : In a Country , not over a Country : To the seven Churches in Asia , not to the Church of Asia , or the Church Asia , a Church taking in halfe part of the world . Sure if Christ would have had such a Nationall comprehensive Church , he could have converted Kings and Princes first , and they should have given up their Scepters and Kingdoms to Jesus Christ , in the way of a Presbyterian : Nay , it ought to have been so ; Iesus Christ was bound in the way of righteousnesse , to have begun the practice and modell●o us , over whole Kingdoms , having not left it in precept in the whole Gospel ; and we ought either to have had practice or precept to order and command us in what we obey . You say , If other Truths be set by , it is by those that so oppose Government , and not by the Presbyterial . I see the Presbytery must be in no fault : Happy men ! that have nothing but Truth on their side . You wish I had more caution in my minde and paper , and a shorter Refutation had served . Cautions are not amisse both for you and me ; and I think you had need of more caution of the two , by how much more vast and national the Government is you manage . You that put yoaks upon whole Nations in a day , had need to have the cautions of a yeers provision laid in beforehand . And for your Refutation of my paper ; doe not beare witnesse of your self ; let Truth judge betwixt us , and let the Reader pray for a spirit of discerning to judge both what is Truth , & which is Truth ; that which you , or I , affirme . Nor will I say I have made here a Refutation of yours . If I have done well , What have I that I have not received ? And if I have not , the Lord enlighten and enable me to refute my selfe . Master Ley's Resolvtion , Pag. 36.37.38 . To that of his , that the material Temple was more clearly left and knowne then the Gospel patern ; &c. Answer , 1. He would not be thought to side with Sanballat and Tobijah , and so endeavours to shew some considerable difference . 2. If it be too soone now for the Goverment , will he set a time for it when it will be seasonable ? or will he have it stay till it be a material building , or till we have inspired Prophets ? 3. It cannot be of too quick dispatch , if we set it up by the dictates of the holy Ghost in the New Testament ; nor the determination sudden , if after consideration with Scriptures , with the best Divines , and collation of the exactest paterns , after long debates in the Assembly of Divines , where the dissenting and liberty to object ; and lastly , recived by Parliament . 4. By the builders , speciall regard hath beene had to Iesus Christ for Foundation , &c. And now by Master Saltmarsh his consent the work may go on , &c. Reply . You say , I would not seeme to side with Sanballat and Tobijah . You say true , I would not . But every building is not Temple-work . And though I would not with knowledge hinder the Temple of the living God , yet if another kinde of frame were in building , I would do my best to hinder , and be no Sanballat neither . But they are Sanballats , not whom man , but whom the Lord counts so . But surely they hinder more , that set up another kinde of Temple then Christs , then he that advises to look well that all be right and Temple-worke that is set up . To the difference I made of the material and Gospel-paterns , you say nothing ; and that is the onely considerable . It may be , as you said you said by me , you are best able to deale with the other . You say I should set a time then for the setting it up . Yea , I shall set you a time , yet not in mine owne authority but Cerist's : When your Patern is all Gospel , and your people all qualified that in ▪ Gospel-patern , then is my time for setting up , and then is Christ's time too . Nor would I stay you for a material building , as you say . You know I call you on to the Gospel : I am very far from turning you back to the Law . I call you on to Christ ; I would not turne you back to Solomon . And for the inspired Prophets you tell me I stay for , and would have you stay too : Is not that a very Gospel-way to stay for the Spirit 's comming into the servants of the Lord ? Take heed of denying inspired Disciples . You know it is part of the fulfilling of the great Prophecie , Acts 2. Indeed some of the Prelates , many of them being uninspired themselves , & having little of the Spirit , or none , would needs say therfore All inspirations and Spiritual enligthnings , &c. were ended in the Church , because ended in them : and because they were so carnall themselves , they thought none was Spiritual . And you remember how they made Laws even against the Spirit in Prayer . I speake thus , onely to remember you who spoke most against inspiration and the Spirit , lest you may let fall some words which may be taken up by some of that Way , to countenance them in their Invectives . Not but that I esteeme of you as one inspired your selfe in a measure , and having the Spirit of God in you ; and herefore I know the Spirit will be very tender in opposing the Stpirit . You say you ought to dispatch the Government , because you have followed the dictates of the holy Ghost , of the Assembly , and Parliament . Then let me put one Question ; Why is it not called Christs Government ? Why hath it not a Jus divinum , a Divine Right put upon it , if all be of the holy Ghost in it ? But I would not mistake you ; you say onely that all is by the dictate of the holy Ghost , of the Assembly and Parliament . So it is but part then , by your owne confession , of the holy Ghost ; the rest is of the Assembly and Parliament . You say The builders have had special regard to Jesus Christ the Foundation . I will not suspect the Counsels and Debates of any of the builders . I know the Disciples of Christ were true Disciples , though they had not all of the Spirit at one time which they had at another . I hope and I pray that the Lord will make up to the builders what of the Spirit he hath not given them , that they may both see to build right , and see where they have builded wrong ; and so pull downe againe , as well as set up . And whereas you say The building may go on , by Master Saltmarsh his owne consent : I say Your building will goe on , it seemes , whether Master Saltmarsh consent or no . Master Ley , in his capacity , is better able to put it on at this time then Master Saltmarsh is to put it off to another time , unlesse the Lord who is above all , and hath the mighty , even the Princes of the earth to command , work for his own glory above all that we can or think . Master Ley's Resolution , pag. 38 , 39.40 . To the second Objection and Answer of Heresies and Schisms , and so they might have done from Iohn's first Sermon , he saith , 1. Why doth he begin at Iohns first Sermon ? Were not the Esseans , &c. Hereticks and Schismaticks ? See Epiphanius , &c. 2. He makes Paul's Epistles the terminus ad quem , which from Iohn's first Sermon to the last , make up Twenty nine yeers . After the Epistles , he brings in the sending the Spirit , &c. which was but five yeeres after the first Sermon of Iohn Baptist . 3. Before the end of the Epistles , that Government was not which we finde in Scripture ; and if so , the Church-government was not long suspended . 4. Nor would it prejudice our expedition : People of that Age could not be so easily gathered as with us they may be . 5. What was long in establishing in Primitive times , cannot be said to be hastily done now , after so many discussions and delibrate resolutions . Reply . You say first , Why begin I for Hereticks and Schismaticks from Iohn's first Sermon : I begin there , because there began the mystery of the Gospel . And yet I shew you that no Government began with that Gospel manifestition ; by which I made appeare that if Government had been of such moral necessity , why was it not given out with the Gospels first giving out ? Now you prove in a chronologicall discourse the space of time from Iohns Sermon to Pauls Epistle , to make the time appeare for government . And , after you have summed up all the time and periods , and finde it no two or three yeers work , you conclude People of that age could not be so easily gathered as now : Nor the long establishing then to be an hasty establishing now . And now , after all this discourse and ravellings out of time from Iohns Sermon , &c. What have you gained ? Not that the government was soone setled . Then you have proved ( much to my advantage , and in a clearer and fuller computation then I did ) the contrary . So as you have onely beene taking some learned paines , if you well observe , and the Reader well observe you , to prove that the Government at first was not suddenly cast into modell nor brought forth in practice , which is the very thing I aimed at ; and truely your paines in it have beene more exact then mine ; and I thank you for it . But you say , It ought not to be so now ; nor can it be said to be hastily done now , that was done so long ago . You say true in that : But you know the same Spirit must reveale it that formed it ; and it formed it at first by degrees : and the way of Revelation hath beene more yeeres then the first forming ; reckon but your Antichristian yeeres as exactly as you have done your first Christian and Primitive yeeres , and you may be more satisfied . So as all , both the first Revelation of it from Prophesies , and the latter from Antichristianism , makes all for the not hastening , which I aimed at . Indeed if you can as infallibl assurey us this forme and model is the very forme then given out , it were very true that you say , That it cannot be said to be hastily done now , what was done so long ago : viz. If it be that very one which was done so long ago . For your exception against me , concerning my placing the giving of the Spirit so late , if you interpret sense by the strict order of words , you will lose many a Scripture truth in the words , as you well know . Master Ley's Resolution . Pag. 40. & 41. To that of Heresies , &c. he saith ; What if they do not stir up their Patrons against the State , &c. but they busily poyson the souls of the people ; and shall they ( if as Paul Best ) be suffered to blaspheme , and reproach , and perturb the publike Peace ? An Indulgence much like old Elies , &c. If Truth be not more precious then Peace , Why doth our Saviour say , He came not to send Peace ? and why do the Fathers contend so against the Arrians about a letter ? And why we so with the Romish Religion rather then be at Peace with them ? For that of morall transgressions , he would have the Magistrates set on . Set on ? By whom ? We have not such mean thoughts of the Magistrate as to make mention of him in such terms of disparagement . And for all his Disciplines regulating men for religious walking , there will be worke enough for the Magistrate to bring them under civill tryall for contumacy , &c. Reply . You say , What ? If heresies stir not up , they poyson souls . If they poyson , let the Gospel antidote be applyed then , and no other way which the Gospel will not bear nor allow ; there is the sword of the Spirit , and weapons not carnall , but mighty and spirituall . For that of old Elies indulgences which you speak on , you are still looking upon Moses , though you tell us of Christ . Make the Kingdome of Israel and of England the same ; a Iewish and Christian State the same ; and then we shall allow you both Elies sin , and his sons maintenance by tythes and offerings . You say , Truth is more precious then Peace ; yet there is a Peace precious as well as Truth , even the Peace of Christ as well as the Truth of Christ . But to the businesse ; You would prove Truth to be precious , to the disadvantage of Peace ; and therefore you bring in the Fathers against the Arrians , and us against the Papists , and Christ against peace : But what would you prove ? Would you prove that truth ought to be established against Peace ? and Peace to be no way to Truth ? Surely Truth and Peace do meet together ; nay , they are so much one , as there is even a Truth in Peace . He that was Truth it self could say , My Peace I leave with you . But , What of the contentions spoken on of the Fathers and us , &c. If there be any quarrelling for Truth either by the Fathers or us , but in a Gospel-way , we are not excusable ; neither doth Christ speak of Truths drawing swords , but of swords drawn against Truth ; which is no Argument for you . When Peter would draw a sword in the defence of Truth , Christ bid him put it up . So far is he against your way of defending Truth . You say , By whom should Magistrates be set on ? and that you cannot speak in such disparaging words . By whom be set on ? By the legislative power , by the Parliament : The Parliament can set on their respective Committees , Justices , &c. and is this any disparagement ? I speak of subordinate Magestrates , not of the supream . You say , There will be work for the Magistrate enough , to punish the contumacious , &c. That is in English , the Presbytery will keep the Magistracy doing : and now who disparages the Magistrate ? Who set them on work ? Who makes them their Deputy-punishers ? Nay , Who is the Sathan to whom the excommunicate are delivered ? It is an expression not much besides your principles : and who disparages the Magistrate in that ? Master Ley's Resolution . Page 41 , & 42. To that of Truth being otherwise armed from Heaven , I Answer . We think it not meet to divide the subservient means from the supream power , nor the exercise of Discipline from his assistance who can make it effectuall , the sword of God and Gidion . To that of the imputation of jealousie , &c. There is a godly jealou●●e , which would set up as many securities as may be against Heresie and impiety . The faulty jealousie is theirs that would stifle the Government : but there is a fear which we professe of Gods anger for connivence and communion with hereticall men &c. There is in some an aversenesse to Heresie in a true zeal and love of God . There be many other causes of jealousie , but I will take but that one of the Lords and Commons , p. 43. If Master Saltmarsh had well considered who were engaged , &c. he would not have under-valued their piety and prudence , to compare them with Papists and Prelates . I will conclude with a peece of his own politick advice , &c. Vpon such principles is Church-Government ordained ; for his Text out of the Revelation , Revel. 18.1 . As he began , so he ends with mis-application of Scripture . Reply . You say you cannot divide Discipline from his assistance , who can make it effectuall . That is from the Magistrates . This is a signe without further Argument , that you do not hold your government for Christs , because it cannot be effectuall of it selfe , without help from below , and the world , and to another power then its own ; nor is the sword of God , and Gideon any fair and just proof for joyning Presbytery and Magistracy ; it joyns onely God and the Magistates . You say , Your godly jealousie will set up as many securities as may be . But then they are warrantable and Gospel-ways of security . That is no godly Jealousie which sets up other wayes ; as Herod killing all the children to secure his Kingdome ; David dissembling to escape ; Jacob to get a blessing : there is Jealousie , but no godly Jealousie nor warrantable security . So to secure any way , though of truth , by a power not allowed on in the Gospel , as no such compulsive power is in your way , is not to be jealous with a godly Jealousie ; though I deny not but some of those may be godly who are so jealous , but not in that . You say that some fear Gods anger for their Communion with Hereticks , &c. You know all such fear is onely warrantable in the Church , not in the world : It is not so with the Nations now as with the Iews . Now if we have not communion with them in the Nation , we must go out of the world . But , What communion is this you mean that will bring Gods anger ? You have your liberty to withdraw , to separate , as they from you : If it be nationall or civill communion , then you pluck up the tares before the time of harvest . But whom you esteem Hereticks , they it may be think they have as good Scriptures to esteem you so ; and this is Heretick for Heretick , interpretation against interpretation . And since there is onely a sufficiency but no infallibility now as before ; since there is no Apostles for interpretation as at first , for Revelation , why do we thus cry out Hereticks , Hereticks ; the Sword , the Sword ? Let me put one Question here . Suppose those you call Hereticks , were of equal number to you , and both of you equally numbered with Magistrates , and both of you equally principled for Persecution , and both equally calling out for the Magistrates Sword ; what clashing of swords would there be ! What edge against edge , what authority against authority , what power against power ! What bloody doings , what sad workings , what confusion would there be ! This is an Image of your Incorporation of your two powers that you so plead for in this kinde . If we were equally principled and armed for Persecution , as you are , and acted by your spirit ; Ah what a Kingdome would here be ! You say Some have aversnesse to Heresy in a true zeale to God . These are but generall notions of Heresy . Every thing is not Heresie that is called so . And for true zeal to God in that aversenesse , all this is granted , if that be Heresie indeed . But how if it be such a zeale as Paul saith the Iewes had , a zeale , but not according to knowledge ? how if it be such a zeale to God as crucified the Sonne of God ? and such a zeal there hath been , we know . The Iewes did much in zeale to Truth , even against Truth . But you close up with that of the Lords and Commons in an Ordinance , &c. I am afraide these are such proofes as you intend most in your Presbytery , to make your supplement to Scripture from Authority , and so to make us beleeve what you cannot perswade us to beleeve , and to make it out by an Ordinance what you want by Scripture . But I hope that honourable Senate will rather let you argue from the Scripture against us then from their Authority . But I have not to do here with answering Ordinances of Parliament . I contend not , but submit to them in every Ordinance for the Lords sake ; nor doth my Argument lie against any thing of theirs , but yours . I dare not undervalue them to count them as Parties , but Iudges in our difference . I appeal to the Parliament , as to Caesar : nor in it a fair proof of Truth , to draw the Magistrates Sword out of the Scabbard . You say You wonder , considering who was engaged , I would so undervalue them to compare them with Papists and Prelates . I did consider who was engaged , a Parliament , &c. and had I not highly valu●d them , I had not ventured so far in my Quaere . I considered the sad and fatal troubles which attended the Magistrates engagements with the Ministers ; the blood which hath been poured out by National compulsion of tender Consciences ; and like a Spiritual Watchman I could not but blow my Trumpet , and give warning . And for my comparison of Papists and Prelates , I appeal to the world if there be any reproach ; whether it be not in the Interpreter rather then in the Author . But I know no such thing by my Paper : And if it be lawfull to draw in consequent conclusions , and then father them , I could prove you to speake Treason , Blasphemy , Idolatry , Atheisme , Heresie , nay , Independency , which some of your Way think worse , Anabaptisme , Separation , which would seeme to be as hatefull to you : But I judge you not in any such sort ; nor had I spoken so far now , but in a just Vindication . You say You will conclude with my Politicks ; and upon such Principles as mine , Church-govenment is ordained . I have told you my Politicks were written by my dimmer light . And if your Government be built upon no better Principles then mine , I cannot but be out of conceit with that Government , being so farre out of conceit with mine own Principles ; and it makes me thinke the worse of it , because my former Principles fit it so well . Those Principles you speak on , are partly of Civill power and the Sword ; and the Dominion or Scepter in the Gospel , is more Spiritual . You say of my Text in the Revelation , Revel. 18.1 . that as I began , so I end , with misapplication of Scripture . Misapplication is a word soon●r writ then proved ; and my Reasons were rath●● crowded then ordered in my Paper . The Scripture was this : For the Angel that came down from heaven hath great power , and the earth is lightned with his glory . Which Scripture there applyed , doth hint to any that wil not rather cavil then interpret , that my only reason for delay of Government was in this : An Angel was yet to come with power and glory ; or , the Gospel would fill the earth with more light ; so as we should not shut up our selves too soon in the dark . And now Reader , judge whether it be my misapplication , or his mis-interpretation . SPIRITUALL PRINCIPLES drawn forth . Gospell-Truth is one and the same . THat which is onely in some parts of it warrentable by the Word , is not purely , nor in a Scripture-way warrantable : For there is not any Will-worship but it hath something from the Patern of the true . The Samaritaine-worship was copied after the Iewish ; and the Iewish , when Christ came , had Priests , and Temple , and Sacrifices , and was copied by the Law : but then there was Traditions and Commandments of men . That is pure Gentilism , which hath no Image of Gospel nor legal Truth . Antichrist sits in the very Temple of God , though rather upon it . False Christs call themselves Christs as well as the true . The great Image had a head of Gold , though feet of Iron and Clay . Every Heresie hath a Scripture-Word in it . But Truth must be all one and the same , and Homogeneal ; not in parts so , but all so . There is but one Lord , one Faith , &c. Prudence and Consequences , are the great Engines of Will-worship . THings of Prudence meerly , are not to be admitted into the Spirituall way and Gospel-designe . Prelacy had its Prudence for every new additionall in Worship and Government . And once let Prudence open a door , and then will more of man crowd in , then the Law of God can keep out . Nor is that to be admitted which is so received a Maxime , Though not directly , yet not repugnant to the Word . Christs rule is not such : he opposes any Tradition to the Commandements of God . Not direct from Scripture , is indirect and repugnant though not to the very letter of such words , yet to the form and Analogy of truth to the generall Scripture-law , viz. the will of God that nothing shall be added nor diminished ; and ye are onely my friends , saith Christ , if ye do what I command you ; and the Lord will raise you up a Prophet , him shall ye hear . For if any thing of Prudence is to be let in , then something of Tradition ; for Prudence can make nothing higher , nor purer , nor better ; man can but give his own Image to the things he makes himself : though he make them up of divine materials from Scriptures , yet the form none but the Lord himself can give ; and the form is that which stamps Christs Image upon every Truth . Every thing in the Word hath a form ; that is , it is such a thing of truth , and not another . Nothing but Gods power and will can make a thing Truth : his power creates it , and his will creates it such a Truth . Nothing is agreeable to the will of Christ , but the very will of Christ . The will of Christ is the onely Legislative power in the Gospel . Nothing is agreeable to his will but what he wills ; and every thing is repugnant to his will but what he wills : So as this will is the supream generall Law , and indeed the very form or essence of Scripture and the Word of God . And whatsoever is devised by Prudence , though upon Scripture-materials , yet being not the work of this will , nor having the Stamp or Image upon it , is none of Christs , but as repugnant as any other Trad●tion or Invention of men . And here let us look to that new , though old design against Truth , the most subtill undiscernable , and divinest kinde of Will-worship in the world : that which some call Scripture-consequence , an unwholsome word as it hath been used : for under colour of consequence , what Conclusions may be promoted ! What may not Reason draw from Scripture , and what may it not fashion like a Truth ! But consider , in Parliament Laws , or Ordinances , or Commissions , is it lawfull to take them , and from every part of them to draw out results of our own ; and when there is but one Law , make many subordinate Laws of our own ; and frame Laws out of Laws , and Ordinances out of Ordinances , and Commissions out of Commissions ? No sure : But we must keep to that one , generall , entire litterall Law and Will of the Parliament . Is it thus in Laws humane , and not much more in Ordinances divine ? Yea ●here is the same onenesse , entirenesse , indivisibility , and essentiality of the Truth . Nor do I here disapprove any Scripture-consequence , if meerly consequent and not formed up into a Law by meer reason ; for then man makes Laws from the Laws of God ; and this is not the least engine that Antichrist hath wrough● with . The People are Brethren and Saints in Christs Church ; but in Antichrists , Parishioners and Servants . WHat kinde of government is marked out in Scriptures for sitting on the waters , or people ? Christ governs by the people ministerially , not over the people authoritatively onely ; and the people being once in his Church-way , lose their old capacity for a new , and are raised up from people to Brethren , to Churches . It is a saying of Master Goodwins and Master Nye , not so pleasant as true , The Clergy had at first the golden ball of government amongst themselves , and it is not much mended anywhere but in that Church where the people have their interests as well as others ; they are the Clergy properly , a notion which the Ministers got onely to themselves till of late : The interest of the people in Christs Kingdome is not onely an interest of compliancy , and obedience , and submission ; but of consultation , of debating , counselling , prophesying , voting , &c. and let us stand fast in that liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free . Presbytery it selfe is founded on Principles of separation , which yet they condemn for Schism in other Churches ; nay , is the greatest separation . WHat is a Presbytery over Congregations or a Congregation , but a Church gathered out of a Church ? Nay Is not that the onely Church ; and the remainder of people made but an accessory , or something of another kinde , or rather the Nation or Kingdome which is only subject to this power supream ? And though Presbytery be but a very Church-gathering , and founded on a Principle of seperation , yet do they not disapprove , and condemn separation and semi or half-separation and Church-gathering for Schism , & c ? when their own power is a Schism respectively to the Parishes that are distinct ; and whatever distinction is formed to make them appear as part of their Congregations , yet is it indeed so . Is not their whole power defended to be entirely , essentially , dispensatively in the Presbytery called by themselves the Church , and by the very authority of one whom I name with reverence to his learning and moderation , Master Herle ? So as I wonder why there should be such envyings , rayilngs , accusings , dissentings , betwixt us that are beleevers , though of severall wayes , when as each is principled , founded , administred upon the same ground and way of Schism , separation , and Church-gathering ; nay , the Presbytery hath more Schism and separation in it then the rest , by how much it is constituted from the people and Brethren , and acts in its ministration apart too , viz. over the people , rather then with them . None to be forced under Christs Kingdome as in the Kingdoms of the world . IN a Spirituall Government the ignorance of people which some would have for expedition , that they may practically know it , is no Scripture way of knowing : in practicall godlinesse , things must be knowne before practically known ; and practice is to begin from faith , and faith from knowledge ; else the obedience can be but blind , mixt , and Popish . Indeed in things civill or morall , practice may bring in knowledge , habits may be acquired and gotten by acts ; a man may grow temperate by practising temperance , and civilly obedient by practising civill obedience ; but it is not so in spirituals there , habits go before acts , spirituall infusions before practices . Indeed the Lawes of States and Kingdomes and Civill Policy , teach men best by ruling them practically ; but it is not so in the Church ; men are not to be forced into Christs Kingdome as into the Kingdomes of the world ; the Kings of the Nations exercise their Dominion ; it shall not be so among you . The power of a formall Reformation in a Government makes it not Christs Government . A Government , though not purely Christs , may be made up of such Scripture and prudentiall materials as may much reform the outward man , even as a meer prudentiall Civill-government may do , if severely executed . The Romanes by how much they excelled other Nations in Laws , so much the more they excelled them in a people reformed , moralized , ●nd civilized ; in many Civill States , meerly from their wholesome Policy and administration , excellent and pretious flowers spring up , many morall vertues , as prudence , temperance , obedience , meeknesse , love , justice , fortitude : Yet all this makes not a Government to be Christs ; but only that which is meerly the Discipline of Christ , and Policy of Christ . Prelacy in its Primitive time did reforme ; the beast like a lamb , which compelled the Nations to Worship , and made even fire to come down from Heaven , or was religious in the eyes of men , and did miracles ; yet was no true nor heavenly Power neither . There are certain parts and degrees of Reformation common and communicable with the Government of Christ & other Governments ; but then , there is a form and Image of Christ in it which no others have , and some certain spirituall operations and workings which exceed the power of all other Governments ; and this makes the difference and puts on the essentiall , true , and individuall form upon it ; so as in choice of Governments they are not to be chosen by some Summer-fruit in the outward man , but by the Word and Spirit . The visible Church or Communion , is the Image of the invisible or mysticall . THe invisible or mysticall Church is made up of pure living stones ; all is spirituall , and yet all not spirituall in the like kinde , nor degree ; Iesus Christ the corner stone is both God and man ; and some of his differ in glory as one Star differs from another : and as it is here , in this spirituall , invisible , glorious building ; so it is in the outward , visible Communion below , or building here , which is the Image of that above : The Temple here is according to the Patern there ; and as that is of true , reall , essentially spirituall living stones , so the Church here is to consist of such as visibly , formally , and outwardly appear so , and therfore called Saints , and golden Candlesticks , and holy Nation , &c. and though all the materials in this building are to be proportionable , & pure , to make up a representative of the Church above , yet all is not of one square , and measure , and polishing ; some are greater , and some lesse ; some Babes and children in Christ : some smoaking Flax , and bruised Reeds : and as this Church bears the Image of the heavenly , so the materiall one bore the Image of this ; there was pure stones , gold , and Cedar ; so as there is roome in the Church now for any small stone or the lest peece of timber , if it be but lively or squared , if Cedar or firr . How Christ is a King of the Nations and of the Church , and how an Head . Christ is a King to the Nations , and to the Church ; nor doth he rule the Nations as the Church , nor the Church as the Nations ; he rules ministerially in his Church , and monarchically in the Nations ; he rules with a golden Scepter in his Church , with an Iron Rod in the Nations ; nor doth Christ rule as the Kings of the Nations , who finding people rude , barbarous , uncivill , subdue them into obedience and civility ; but so doth not Christ in his Church , that we know on ; the dispensation of his Word ( not of the Government ) first subdues . And it is true , Christ is an Head , but not an Head to every body ; he will have a body proportionable to his Head both here and hereafter , in earth as well as in heaven ; he is a pure , holy , glorious Head in his Gospel dispensation , and well have a body suteable pure . Not onely is the visible body of Christ thus pure , but every truth of Christ bears the Image of Christ ; every truth of his hath something of himselfe in it who is Truth it selfe ; I am the Truth , saith Christ ; every beam of light is light ; every truth is a sparkle of truth it self . Thus we may judge of truth , by what of Christ we see in it . They who break a Crystall , may see their face in every peece and parcell ; so in every thing of Christ there is an Image of Christ , either of his purity , or holinesse , or love , or humility , or meeknesse , &c. The Presbyteriall Government , and the Worlds , of the same equall Dominion . WHat kinde of Church-government is that , which will set up it selfe with the Civill and State-government , even co-ordinate with it , if not to the ruling and tutoring of it ? which hath as large a Dominion as the other ? which is as full , as ample , as high , and as supream ? which no lesse territory then a Kingdome will serve , then a whole Nation ? Must Christs Government be just as large as the worlds , which Government affects Dominion ? which brings in whole Nations under the Scepter of it ? This , or that little one in the Scripture which sits down sometimes in a house , to the Church in thy house ; sometimes in a City as Corinth , and over a few there , to the Church in Corinth ; in a Countrey , not over a Countrey ; to the seven Churches in Asia , not to the Church of Asia , or the Church Asia , a Church a fourth part of the world . Sure if this Nationall and comprehensive Church were the Patern we should walk by , Why did not Christ begin first at Kings and Princes and so bring Nations & Kingdomes , and make Churches of them ? But we see no such thing ; he begins lower , at the base and weak , and foolish , and few ; and raises up his Kingdome from the bottom of the world , and not from the top or pinacle of Princes , Kingdoms , and Nations . The Nationall , and Congregationall Church covenant , both lawfull ; or both unlawfull . HOw can a Church-covenant be unlawfull if the Nationall Covenant be warrantable ? and why do any plead against that , who are for this ? A Covenant is condemned in the Congregationall Church , & yet commended in the Nationall . Now , How can a Church-covenant be both true and false ? Is a great Church-covenant lawfull , & a little one unlawfull ? a Nationall Church-covenant warrantable , and a Congregationall unwarrantable ? But Covenants in their nature were a dispensation more of the old Testament-strain ; a Nationall Church had a Covenant to gather them up into their Nationall way of worship , and were under the Laws of an externall Pedagogie ; and now the spiritual dispensation being come , even the Gospel of Jesus Christ , there is a fulnesse of spirit let out upon the Saints and people of God , which gather them up more closely , spiritually , and cordially , then the power of any former dispensation could : the very Covenant of God himself , of which the former were typicall , and Propheticall , comes in nakedly upon the spirits of his , and draws them in , and is a law upon their inward parts , sweetly compelling in the consciences with power , and yet not with force ; with compulsion , and yet with consent ; and surely where this Covenant of God hath its kindly and spirituall operation , there would need no such externall supplement as before ; but because of the hardnesse of our hearts , it is thus ; from the beginning it was not so ; the Spirit tyed up thousands together then . Let States then have any prudential security , any designe of sound wisdome , to consorate people together ; but let the Church only be gathered up by a Law of a more glorious and transcendent nature , by the pure Covenant of God himself with the souls of his . Wee receive and give out Truth by parts . MEn are to be judged and followed according to the degrees of light they receive ; and if any have some light , that light is not to be used as an advantage to all their other darknesse , as if all their darknesse might passe under that one beam of light . The light rises upon the Prophets , as the Sun upon the Earth , it is dawning , and morning , and noon with them , Thus came the Gospel ; Iohn preached Repentance , Iesus Christ Faith and Repentance ; Iohn came with Water , Christ with the Spirit , and first in Parables , and after in power : the Apostles they knew first Christ for Messiah ; then that he should suffer , and die , and rise again ; and then the Kingdome of God . Luther knew first that Indulgences were unwarrantable ; and after , that Popery was Antichristianism , and Rome was Babylon , and works could not justifie ; and after , conscience was not to be compelled in spirituals , Thus we grow from Faith to Faith , to the fulnesse of stature in Christ , to a perfect man in him , growing with the encreasings of God : The Kingdome of God is like a little leven , like a grain of mustard-seed . So as wh●le we see but things in degrees , we are neither to be too suddenly admired by others , nor our selves . All Covenanters are bound to contribute to Religion as well as State . WHosoever hath Covenanted , is bound to assist the Publike to his utmost in every Condition , and Calling , and Place , and Way accordingly ; from naturall abilities to his relations , from one relation to another , even to all : to that of Christian and Spirituall ; his Prayers , Counsel , Notions , with Contributions of all sorts , Civill , Natural , Temporal , Spiritual : He is bound by Covenant to discover malignity in State , in Church ; enemies to God as well as man ; endeavours to any thing of Popery and Prelacy , under what visage , habit , form of Words , of Doctrine , Discipline , be it Presbytery or whatever , if repugnant to the Word of God , as we are perswaded in conscience who have personally Covenanted . The breathings and speakings of the Spirit , are not to be quenched : Every season is for the Lords service ; in season and out of season : Watchman , watchman , what of the night ? The Spirit is poured upon sons and daughters . Synods of men are not infallible : Not because more men , more of the Spirit . The liberty of the subject is that of soul as well as body ; and that of soul more dear , precious , glorious , The libery wherein Christ hath made us free . Be not ye then the servants of men in the things of God . We are to try Truth , and so receive it in its Degrees . ENquiries for Truth ought to be according to Scripture-rule ; and that rule lights us on to the trial of all things , and prooving spirits , and judging between the precious and the vile . The water that is mingled with the wine , the tares with the wheat , will require sound trial , lest we make but an exchange of one Error for another . The Apostles waited for the Spirit , the Bereans searched the Word : we are bidden to try and prove . The Prophecies of seducers , false Christs , Antichrist with lying wonders , are as real cautions given out by the Spirit . The examples of former Ages , Luther . &c. were enlightned by degrees . Angels , who see by vision , see but as God reveals ; much lesse men who take in Truths by spiritual reasoning as well as revelation . Arise , why tarriest thou , is a Text only for him who had such a Vision as Paul to obey by , and such a Vision as Ananias had to preach by . No Church-way INDEPENDENCY . THe Beleevers for the Church-way falsly called Independents , they hold on Christ for a spiritual Head , on the Magistrate for their civil Head , on the Body of Christ above and below in the Communion of Saints here : their Dependency is Spiritual , Ministerial , communicative ; not Classical , Provincial , National : Their power is for one another , not over one another . They cannot mingle or embody with those in a Way not of Truth . Their separation is not from men but manners ; not from believers themselves , but their practises and corruptions . Nor go they out , but they are called out : Come out of her , my people , &c. And thus the Iews were Independent to the Nations , the Christians to the Iews , the Reformed to the Papists , the Non-conformists to the Prelatical , and these to the Nonconformists . A spirit of Love and Meeknesse becomes Beleevers . THey that write not as enemies , are likely to prove better friends to the Truth , because they raise not so much dust with their striving as others , to blinde one anothers sight . Those spirits which cast men sometimes into the fire , sometimes into the water , are not from Christ ; it were happy the Lord would cast out those , and let a more Gospel-spirit walk amongst us ; we might then sooner attaine to that of the Apostle , To walk by the same rule so far as we have attained together , till the Lord reveale , and the stronger to beare with the weake ; and to please one another to edification , rather then our selves , in all things wherein the Lord may not be displeased in the way of his dispensation . I know no advantages we have got , but the reviling our selves before our enemies as well as one another . And oh ! why doe we tell it Gath , and publish it in the streets of Askalon , to make the uncircumcised triumph ? Was the Lord in the winde , or in the fire , or in the still small voice , when he spake to the Prophet ? onely in the stil voice . How was the Lord heard in the time of his indignation . Man heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the coole of the day . Oh! could we finde out the coolest times to speake and write one to another in , and not in the heat of the day , as we do . When a State-conscience is fully perswaded ; doubtful , and so sinning . IT is with a Publike or State-conscience , as it is a personal or particular conscience : What is done , must be done in Faith , or else there is weaknesse , doubting , and sin . Now where there is not a full consent and perswasion from the Word of faith , there cannot be faith properly ; and where there is not a Word of faith for that Conscience to be grounded upon , there cannot be a purely and ●piritually full perswasion . And one may question whether in Spirituals , as in Civils , Votes & Voices are to make Laws ; for in the Gospel we finde that divine Lawes have their subsistance there , without the Vote of any : and that is onely to be a Law or Truth in the Church and Kingdom of Saints , not what is so in the common consent or voice , but what is a Law in the very Gospel-truth of it . If the Laws of truth were founded as the Lawes of Civel States , in a meer Legislative power ; then Popery hath had as good assurance as any ; they have had most voices , most Counsels : and so Arrianism , when the world went after it . Post-script . The Testimony of Salmasius the approoved German writer of the Presbyteriall way , and employed by the States of Holland to write . THat the Baptisme in the name of the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost , is not that way of Baptisme practiced by the Apostles . The Baptisme of Apostolicall use and institution , is in the Rivers not with invocation of the three Persons , seeing the Apostles Baptized onely in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ . In his owne Latine thus Baptisma in aquis perennibus Apostolici instituti & moris sed non invocatio Trinitatis super Baptizatum , cum Apostoli in solo nomine Iesu Baptizarent . Salmasius in apparatu ad libros de primatu papae , fol. 193. Salmasius his Testimony against the present Presbyterial-way . DVobus modis hac Independentia ecclesiarum accipi , si vel respectum non habeant ad vicinas ullas ecclesias , aut si non pendeant ab authoritate aliquot Ecclesiarum simul in unam Classem vel Synodum conjunctarum unius conventus cujus partem & ipsae faciant . Prior modus similior reperitur primitivae ecclesiae praxi consuetudini ac usui quo voluntina haec communio inter ecclesias fuit . Posterior magis convenit cum instituto quod postea a juris humani dispositione introductum est . Hoc posteriore modo libertas perticularium ecclesiarum magis imminuta videtur quam priore . Sed quod ab initio fuerit voluntatis b postea factum est juris . Hoc jus sane positivum atque ecclesiasticum humanumque , non divinum : juris est quidem divini ut una sit ecclesia christo , unitas autem ejus non gregalium aut c concorporalium plurium adunate collectione consistat sed in fidei ac doctrinae unanimi consensione . Pag. 265.266 . in apparatu . In English thus : THis Independency of Churches may be taken two waies ; Either as not having respect to any neghbour Churches , or as not depending on the authority of some Churches that are joyn'd in some Classis or Synod , of which the Churches themselvs may make a part ; The former way is found to be more like the practise , custome , and use of the Primitive Church , whereby this voluntary communion was among the Churches . The latter way doth more agree with the institution which afterwards was introduced by a humane authoritie . By this latter way the liberty of particular churches seem to be less diminished then by the former . But that which from the beginning was arbitrary afterwards is made necessary [ as a law . ] This law truly is positive and ecclesiasticall and humane , not divine . 'T is by a divine law that the Church of Christ should be one , but the unity of it doth not consist in the union [ or collection ] of many that are of the same flock or body , but in the unanimous consent agreement in faith and doctrine . Page 265.266 . in apparatu . FJNJS Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A61133e-890 1 Cor. 8.2 . If any man will do his will he shall know of the Doctrine , Joh. 7.17 . Notes for div A61133e-3480 1 John 4.1 . 1 John 4.16 Luke 10.18 . Matth. 24.12 . 1 John 4.8 . 1 John 3.6 . John 13.1 . 1 Cor. 1.12 , 13. Prov. 6.28 . Phil. 1.15 , 16 , 17 , 18. Luke 22.58 , 60. Gal. 2.12 , 13 , 14. See Master Bayly his Dissuasive . Acts 1.25 . 1 Thess. 5.19 . Prov. 28.1 . 1 Tim. 2.2 . Gal. 2.11 . Act. 21.20 . 1 Cor. 8.7 , 8 , 10. Revel. 5.6 . Revel. 18.1 . Matth. 7.1 , 2. 1 Cor. 9.20 . Rom. 15.2 . 1 Cor. 8.9 . Rom. 14.17 . John 20 9. Luke 24.26 . John 3.25 . Acts 21.20 . Matt. 11.1 , 2 , 5. Mark 9.38 . Luke 9.49 . Acts 19.2 , 3. 1 Thess. 5.20 . Phil. 3.2 , 5 , 16. Acts 15.3 , 4. 1 Cor. 13.12 . Col. 3.13 . 1 Cor. 8.2 . Revel. 17.17 . Luke 28.18 . a Matt. 18.15 . Act. 15.19 , 28 , 31. and 16.4 . 1 Tim. 4.14 . Tit. 1.5 . 1 Tim. 1.2 . Tit. 1.6 . Acts 13.1 . 1 Cor. 12.17 . b Acts 6.6 . 2 Tim. 2.2 . 1 Tim. 4.14 . Eph. 4.11 , 12. Heb. 13.17 . Act. 20.28 , 29. Revel. 2.14 , 20 a Act. 15.21 , 25 , 29. 2 Cor. 1.24 . 1 Pet. 5.3 . 1 Tim. 5.1 . Matth. 20.25 . b Acts 15.29 . Joh. 16.13 . Gal. 1.12 . Acts 2.43 . c Mark 10.42 . Luke 22.25 . Joh. 18.36 . d Acts 1.15 . & 15.22 . & 14.23 . e 1 Tim. 6.3 . Matth. 15.9 . f Acts 20.17 . and 15.4 . * {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} . g Matth. 16.11 . and 13.3 . Joh. 6.12 . h Revel. 13.16 . Matt. 7.14 , 15 , 16 , 17. Joh. 10.1 , 5. Acts 19.15 . i 1 Cor. 14.23 . Acts 6.3 . 1 Cor. 1.2 . k Joh. 3.5 . Acts 2.31 . l Gal. 3.7 . Ephes. 2.15 . Acts 3 22. a 1 Pet. 2.5 . 1 Cor. 1 2 , 9. Col. 1 2. 2 Cor. 6.16 , 17 Act. 2.41 , 42. Revel. 3 1 , 17. Act. 9.26 . b Matt. 18.15 , 16 , 17 , 18 20. Matt. 16.18 , 19 c 1 Cor. 12.28 . Ephes. 4.11 . d Act. 6.3 , 5. & 15.22 . 1 Tim. 3.15 . e 1 Cor. 7.14 . Act. 2.39 . Rom. 11.16 . f Act. 2.42 . 1 Tim. 3.15 . g 1 Cor. 14.22 , 6 , 11 , 4. a Matth. 28.18 . & 18.18 , 19. Acts 14.21 , 22 , 23. b Acts 15.6 . & 14.23 . 1 Tim. 4.14 . Acts 6.2 , 6. c Acts 14.23 . 1 Tim. 4.14 . d Revel. 13.16 . Joh. 10.1 , 5. Matt. 7.14 , &c. e Matth. 28.18 , 19. & 3.6 , 9. Acts 8.37 . f 1 Cor. 1 , 2. 1 Pet. 2.5 . &c. Joh. 3.6 . * 1 Cor. 7.14 . g Gal. 3.16 . Rom. 4.16 . Joh. 3.6 . h Matth. 3.9 . i 1 Cor. 10.1 , 2 , 3 , 4. k 1 Cor. 10.1 , 2 , 3 , 4. 1 Pet. 3.21 . l Joh. 15.14 . Acts 3.22 . m Matth. 3 5 , 6. Acts 2.41 . and 8.12 . & 10.48 . Ephes. 5.26 . n Rom. 4.11 . 1 Cor. 14.22 . o Act. 22.16 . p Rom 4.11 . Gen. 17.11 . q Matth. 24.27 . r Jam. 1.23 . ſ Rom. 6.3 , 4. Acts 22.16 . t Acts 2.38 . Rom. 6.3 , 4. Gal. 3.27 . Coloss. 2.12 . Matt. 28.18 , 1● Heb. 6.2 . Mark 16.15 , 16. u Ephes. 4.11 , 12. w 1 Cor. 12.8 , 9 , 10. Acts 2.38 . and 2.34 . x 1 Cor. 12.10 , 29. & 14.29 . a Heb. 12.22 . Acts 10.48 . & 2.41 . & 16.32 , 33. b Matth. 10.1 . compar'd with Matth. 28.18 . Joh. 4.1 . Joh. 8.31 . Isai. 1.16 . Acts 9.10 . and 1.15 . c 1 Cor. 12.5 . d Act. 2.38 . & 10.48 . Matth. 28.18 . Mark 16.16 . Act. 8.37 . e Act. 1.15 . and 2.42 . f Matth. 10.1 . compar'd with 1.28.18 . Isai. 8.16 . Acts 9.10 . g Acts 2.41 , 42 and 16.31 . a Acts 2.38 . & 10 48. and 19.5 . and 8.16 . Rom. 6.3 . b Acts 2.38 . & 10.48 . & 19.5 . & 8.16 . c Acts 3.22 . Joh. 15.14 . Matth. 15.9 . Revel. 22.10 . d Matth. 20.22 , 23. and 3.11 . 1 Cor. 12.13 . and 10.2 . e Joel 2.28 . Isai. 44.3 . with Matth. 3.11 . Acts 1.5 . Joh. 1.33 . f Act. 8.17 , 18 , and 10.44 . and 11.15 . g Acts 2.38 . & 10.48 . & 19 5. and 8.16 . Rom. 6.3 . h Matth. 9.15 . Revel. 22.19 . Joh. 15.14 . i Acts 3.22 . k Matt. 18.20 . Mark 13.6 . Joh. 14.13 . Acts 9.15.16 . Joh. 17.6 , 11. Acts 9.14 . l 1 Joh. 7.7 . m Joh. 1.26 . Mark 1.4 . Matth. 11.30 . Acts 19.3 , 4. n Mark 16.17 . Acts 2.3 , 4. and 16 , 17. o Joh. 1.25 . Matth. 21.25 . Heb. 5.4 . p Acts 8.6 . q Acts 9.17 . 1 Cor. 12.29 , 30. Ephes. 4.11 . Matth. 39.6 . a Joh. 1.25 . Heb. 5.4 . Matt. 10.1 , 5 , 8 ▪ Mark 16.16 . b Revel. 15.8 . 1 Cor. 8.2 . c 1 Cor. 12. d Acts 1.4 . and 7.17 . Gal. 4 4. M●rk 1.15 . Revel. 15.8 . & 16. and 18.1 . Acts ● 6 , ● . a Matth. 10.1 . Mark 16.16 . 1 Cor. 12. b Acts 8.6 . and 9.17 . c Revel. 15.8 . and 18.1 . d Acts 2.4 . Mark 16.17 . Acts 19.6 . 1 Cor. 14.22 , 39. e Revel. 22.1 . a Matth. 28.20 . and 16.18 . b Joh. 14.16 . c Revel. 22.18 , 19. d Heb. 7.22 . e Joh. 20.29 , 30 , 31. f Ephes. 5 . 1● . g Joh. 8 . 1● . and 9 5. h Revel. 22.5 . i Joh. 20.29 , 30 , 31. k Matt. 23.24 . l Matth. 10.1 . compar'd with Matth. 28.18 . Joh. 8.31 . Isa. 8.16 . Acts 9.10 . m 2 Cor. 3.6 , 8 , 9. Rom. 1.16 . 2 Tim. 3.16 , 17. Heb. 4.12 . ● Pet. 1.19 . Phil. 13.16 . 1 Cor. 8.2 . John 20. De divinis n●min . c. 2. Iren. lib. 3. c. 1. Tertullian . lib. contra Hermogen . 1 Cor. 2.28 . Acts 1. & 1● . 1 Joh. 4.1 . 1 Thess. 5.21 . Acts 4.20 . 1 Cor· 2.9 . Ephes. 2.19 , 20 , 21 . 22· 1 Pet. 2.9 , &c. The beginning of this Post-script witnesses to page 13. Exception 4.