Good counsell, to the petitioners for Presbyterian government, that they may declare their faith before they build their church.
         Chidley, Katherine.
      
       
         This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A79481 of text R210414 in the  English Short Title Catalog (Thomason 669.f.10[39]). Textual changes  and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more  computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life.  The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with  MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish.  This text has not been fully proofread 
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         ESTC R210414
         99869217
         99869217
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             Good counsell, to the petitioners for Presbyterian government, that they may declare their faith before they build their church.
             Chidley, Katherine.
          
           1 sheet ([1] p.)
           
             s.n.,
             [London :
             1645]
          
           
             Signed at foot: K.C. (i.e. Katherine Chidley).
             Annotations on Thomason copy: "hidley" after 'K.C' at foot of titlepage; "Nouemb: 1st 1645".
             Reproduction of the original in the British Library.
          
        
      
    
     
       
         eng
      
       
         
           Presbyterianism -- Early works to 1800.
           Great Britain -- History -- Civil War, 1642-1649 -- Religious aspects -- Early works to 1800.
        
      
    
       A79481  R210414  (Thomason 669.f.10[39]).  civilwar no Good counsell, to the petitioners for Presbyterian government, that they may declare their faith before they build their church. Chidley, Katherine.  1645    2254 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 A This text  has no known defects that were recorded as gap elements at the time of transcription.  
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           Good
           Counsell
           ,
           to
           the
           Petitioners
           for
           Presbyterian
           Government
           ,
           That
           they
           may
           declare
           their
           Faith
           before
           they
           build
           their
           Church
           .
        
         
           THe
           Saints
           of
           God
           being
           separated
           from
           Idolatry
           ,
           and
           joyned
           together
           in
           the
           fellowship
           of
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           have
           ever
           enjoyed
           commission
           from
           Christ
           to
           practise
           all
           the
           parts
           of
           Gods
           true
           Religion
           ,
           and
           also
           to
           keep
           the
           Ordinances
           of
           God
           from
           contempt
           or
           profanation
           amongst
           themselves
           .
           And
           this
           power
           they
           have
           from
           God
           though
           with
           persecution
           ,
           now
           ,
           in
           this
           time
           of
           Parliament
           .
           Persecution
           ,
           I
           say
           ,
           not
           from
           the
           Parliament
           ,
           (
           further
           then
           they
           neglect
           to
           preserve
           their
           peace
           according
           to
           the
           Law
           of
           God
           )
           but
           persecution
           ,
           as
           it
           arose
           from
           the
           Pope
           ,
           and
           Bishops
           in
           former
           time
           primarily
           ;
           so
           would
           it
           do
           now
           from
           their
           sons
           ,
           who
           call
           themselves
           Divines
           ,
           yea
           ,
           even
           in
           the
           height
           of
           it
           ,
           if
           they
           might
           have
           their
           wils
           ,
           as
           appeareth
           by
           their
           late
           Petition
           ,
           for
           which
           there
           was
           a
           publick
           calling
           out
           for
           hands
           .
        
         
           Well
           was
           it
           with
           the
           Kings
           of
           Israel
           when
           they
           took
           the
           counsell
           of
           Gods
           true
           Prophets
           though
           few
           in
           number
           ,
           but
           such
           a
           Clergy
           which
           is
           naturally
           addicted
           to
           persecution
           cannot
           be
           a
           blessing
           to
           any
           Parliament
           or
           Nation
           ,
           as
           appeareth
           by
           the
           Scripture
           .
           And
           therefore
           my
           desire
           is
           ,
           that
           the
           Parliament
           may
           submit
           to
           God
           for
           direction
           and
           counsell
           ,
           even
           to
           beware
           of
           men
           ,
           especially
           of
           false
           Prophets
           ,
           or
           any
           evill
           workers
           whatever
           they
           be
           ;
           And
           that
           all
           persons
           fearing
           God
           ,
           in
           the
           City
           of
           
             London
             ,
          
           or
           elsewhere
           ,
           may
           blesse
           God
           ,
           for
           fulfilling
           his
           promises
           unto
           them
           ,
           that
           
             their
             eyes
             enjoy
             their
             Teachers
             ,
          
           though
           in
           an
           
             upper
             roome
             ,
          
           as
           
             Christ
          
           and
           his
           
             Apostles
          
           met
           .
           But
           for
           the
           
             City
             of
             Londons
             Ministery
          
           (
           which
           is
           so
           much
           commended
           in
           the
           Petition
           )
           I
           think
           their
           readinesse
           is
           ,
           as
           the
           rest
           of
           that
           generation
           in
           the
           countreys
           of
           the
           Land
           :
           even
           to
           find
           out
           where
           their
           
             maintenance
          
           lieth
           ;
           And
           so
           far
           are
           they
           from
           keeping
           Gods
           Ordinances
           from
           pollution
           and
           contempt
           ,
           that
           [
           to
           enjoy
           their
           pay
           ]
           they
           will
           walk
           contrary
           to
           a
           known
           rule
           ,
           and
           expresse
           command
           ;
           
             Cast
             not
             holy
             things
             unto
             dogs
             :
          
           yet
           these
           men
           (
           I
           say
           )
           rather
           then
           they
           will
           want
           their
           patrimony
           ,
           they
           will
           constrain
           all
           men
           to
           partake
           of
           the
           Ordinances
           of
           God
           .
        
         
           They
           bewail
           that
           
             the
             children
             should
             come
             so
             neer
             to
             the
             birth
             ,
             and
             that
             there
             is
             no
             strength
             to
             bring
             forth
             :
          
           But
           I
           think
           the
           children
           are
           sufficiently
           brought
           forth
           unto
           them
           .
           If
           their
           means
           be
           established
           upon
           them
           ,
           by
           the
           Parliament
           (
           as
           I
           am
           informed
           it
           is
           for
           a
           certain
           time
           :
           )
           for
           I
           know
           no
           other
           Children
           they
           mean
           ,
           but
           two
           :
           
             viz
             :
          
           MAINTENANCE
           and
           POWER
           :
           The
           one
           they
           have
           as
           
             Saul
             had
             the
             fat
             cattell
             ,
             contrary
             to
             Gods
             commandment
             :
          
           The
           other
           they
           shall
           never
           have
           :
           for
           
             God
             will
             fight
             against
             such
             as
             fight
             for
             them
             ,
          
           as
           it
           appears
           at
           this
           day
           :
           for
           they
           by
           usurped
           power
           ever
           shed
           the
           blood
           of
           the
           
             Saints
             ,
          
           and
           
             Martyrs
          
           of
           
             Jesus
             ,
          
           and
           now
           God
           is
           making
           inquisition
           for
           the
           blood
           which
           hath
           been
           spilt
           ,
           and
           the
           more
           fiercely
           they
           go
           on
           to
           build
           up
           a
           
             Babel
          
           with
           blood
           ;
           the
           more
           speedily
           will
           God
           come
           down
           to
           see
           their
           wickednes
           and
           to
           confound
           them
           .
        
         
           And
           though
           they
           say
           it
           is
           in
           
             fervour
             of
             spirit
             ,
             for
             the
             house
             of
          
           their
           
             God
             ,
          
           and
           although
           the
           Parliament
           may
           
             bear
          
           with
           them
           ,
           at
           their
           entreaty
           ,
           yet
           God
           will
           (
           in
           his
           own
           time
           )
           deal
           with
           sinners
           .
        
         
           They
           further
           complain
           ,
           that
           there
           are
           damnable
           errors
           broached
           amongst
           them
           ,
           (
           that
           is
           to
           say
           ,
           amongst
           the
           
             Presbyterians
             ;
             )
          
           for
           amongst
           the
           people
           of
           God
           none
           can
           so
           soon
           deliver
           any
           point
           of
           
             false
             doctrine
          
           but
           he
           shall
           be
           severely
           dealt
           with
           according
           to
           the
           rule
           of
           
             Christ
             ;
             )
          
           but
           the
           
             Presbyters
          
           practise
           is
           to
           preach
           what
           they
           list
           
             without
             controll
             ,
          
           therefore
           errors
           may
           be
           broached
           by
           them
           
             privilegio
             .
          
        
         
           But
           they
           say
           ,
           
             divers
             are
             fallen
             off
             within
             these
             few
             yeers
             .
          
           But
           me thinks
           they
           do
           not
           speak
           pertinently
           ,
           for
           men
           cannot
           be
           said
           to
           fall
           off
           which
           were
           never
           on
           ,
           or
           from
           a
           government
           that
           was
           never
           setled
           ,
           and
           they
           themselves
           say
           ,
           their
           
             Government
             is
             not
             yet
             established
             .
          
        
         
           And
           these
           that
           fly
           out
           from
           amongst
           them
           ,
           separating
           themselves
           from
           them
           ,
           and
           incorporate
           themselves
           into
           separated
           Assemblies
           ,
           are
           not
           (
           as
           they
           say
           they
           be
           )
           such
           as
           hold
           
             damnable
             heresies
             ,
          
           but
           such
           abide
           still
           amongst
           the
           
             Presbyterians
          
           themselves
           ;
           and
           therefore
           the
           Lords
           people
           are
           constrained
           (
           by
           the
           power
           of
           the
           Word
           of
           truth
           )
           to
           separate
           themselves
           from
           such
           persons
           ,
           that
           are
           (
           retained
           in
           the
           Church
           of
           
             England
             )
          
           godlesse
           in
           their
           lives
           ,
           and
           blasphemous
           in
           their
           judgements
           ,
           yet
           such
           persons
           notstithstanding
           are
           (
           in
           matters
           of
           worship
           )
           one
           with
           the
           whole
           body
           of
           the
           Land
           ;
           and
           these
           be
           the
           vessels
           that
           the
           houses
           of
           their
           Gods
           are
           yet
           filled
           withall
           .
           But
           it
           is
           not
           so
           with
           those
           that
           separate
           themselves
           from
           them
           :
           for
           they
           admit
           not
           in
           their
           societies
           any
           that
           hold
           blasphemous
           
             errors
             ,
          
           neither
           do
           they
           
             set
          
           up
           
             illeterate
             persons
             among
             them
             for
             their
             Pastors
             ,
          
           as
           the
           Presbyterians
           unjustly
           accuse
           them
           .
           True
           it
           is
           ,
           they
           
             manage
             their
             meetings
             with
             boldnesse
             ,
          
           because
           they
           have
           some
           ground
           to
           beleeve
           that
           the
           
             Parliament
          
           will
           not
           suffer
           them
           to
           be
           wronged
           ,
           for
           performing
           the
           
             true
             worship
             ,
          
           to
           the
           
             true
             God
             ,
          
           in
           a
           peaceable
           manner
           ,
           under
           their
           protection
           (
           as
           also
           correction
           in
           case
           they
           should
           walk
           as
           the
           
             Presbyterians
          
           in
           their
           Petition
           have
           falsly
           accused
           them
           ,
           saying
           they
           
             manage
             their
             meetings
             with
             insolencie
             ,
          
           which
           is
           an
           unjust
           accusation
           ;
           And
           
             in
             contempt
             of
             all
             Authority
             ,
          
           which
           is
           also
           untrue
           :
           
             To
             the
             disturbance
             of
             the
             City
             :
          
           which
           is
           another
           falshood
           :
           
             Every
             one
             doing
             that
             which
             is
             right
             in
             his
             own
             eyes
             :
          
           which
           is
           an
           unjust
           affirmation
           as
           the
           rest
           )
           for
           they
           order
           their
           walkings
           according
           to
           the
           rule
           of
           Gods
           Word
           :
           But
           these
           Petitioners
           accuse
           not
           onely
           the
           people
           ,
           but
           also
           the
           Parliament
           ,
           for
           they
           say
           
             every
             one
             doth
             that
             which
             is
             right
             in
             his
             own
             eyes
             ,
             and
             there
             is
             no
             controll
             or
             course
             to
             reclaim
             them
             :
          
           whereby
           it
           is
           evident
           ,
           they
           render
           the
           
             Parliament
          
           very
           infirm
           ,
           or
           carelesse
           .
           And
           the
           people
           of
           God
           plead
           not
           any
           such
           priviledge
           to
           be
           
             without
             controll
             :
          
           but
           alwayes
           submitted
           themselves
           in
           duty
           to
           the
           Magistrates
           power
           ,
           which
           is
           set
           up
           by
           God
           ,
           as
           well
           
             for
             the
             punishment
             of
             evill
             doers
             ,
             as
             for
             the
             praise
             of
             those
             that
             do
             well
             .
          
           Therefore
           all
           these
           Petitioners
           inferences
           against
           the
           people
           of
           God
           be
           slanders
           .
           And
           the
           Religion
           of
           God
           doth
           not
           
             breed
             division
             ,
          
           either
           
             in
             Kingdom
             ,
             City
             ,
          
           or
           
             family
          
           in
           any
           civill
           respect
           :
           for
           Religion
           teacheth
           men
           submission
           to
           their
           duty
           .
           (
           But
           this
           hath
           been
           a
           false
           accusation
           of
           Mr.
           
             T.
             E.
          
           long
           ago
           ,
           which
           hath
           been
           disproved
           at
           large
           .
           )
           Religion
           (
           I
           say
           )
           breeds
           no
           difference
           then
           what
           was
           from
           the
           beginning
           ,
           the
           wicked
           envying
           the
           godly
           ,
           that
           their
           sacrifices
           are
           accepted
           ,
           and
           theirs
           rejected
           ,
           and
           that
           's
           the
           emnity
           which
           Christ
           hath
           put
           between
           the
           two
           seeds
           ,
           and
           it
           shall
           be
           as
           Christ
           saith
           ,
           five
           in
           a
           house
           ,
           two
           against
           three
           ,
           and
           three
           against
           two
           .
           But
           the
           cause
           is
           envy
           ,
           and
           not
           Religion
           .
           And
           whereas
           these
           Presbyterians
           affirm
           in
           their
           Petition
           that
           the
           
             Separates
             set
             up
             illeterate
             men
             to
             be
             their
             Pastors
             ,
          
           let
           that
           come
           to
           the
           triall
           ,
           for
           we
           desire
           not
           to
           be
           led
           by
           blind
           guides
           ;
           Therefore
           I
           could
           wish
           it
           might
           please
           the
           Parliament
           to
           examine
           the
           gifts
           of
           such
           whom
           these
           call
           
             illiterate
          
           (
           that
           so
           it
           may
           appear
           how
           reasonable
           we
           are
           )
           either
           by
           disputation
           between
           the
           Presbyters
           and
           them
           :
           or
           by
           proving
           them
           ,
           to
           give
           the
           sence
           of
           any
           Scripture
           which
           they
           shall
           appoint
           ;
           and
           by
           this
           it
           shall
           appear
           whether
           these
           Presbyterians
           are
           true
           men
           :
           for
           there
           is
           never
           a
           Minister
           of
           the
           Seperation
           that
           feareth
           to
           set
           his
           foot
           against
           any
           Presbyter
           whatsoever
           he
           be
           ,
           to
           dispute
           the
           case
           concerning
           the
           
             matter
             ,
             ministery
             ,
             worship
             ,
          
           or
           
             government
             of
             the
             Church
             ,
          
           or
           any
           principle
           of
           Faith
           which
           it
           shall
           please
           the
           
             Parliament
          
           to
           call
           upon
           them
           for
           the
           managing
           of
           ,
           that
           so
           it
           may
           appear
           unto
           all
           men
           who
           are
           best
           informed
           in
           the
           mind
           and
           will
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           by
           this
           it
           will
           also
           appear
           who
           are
           the
           
             Orthodoxall
             Preachers
             ,
          
           and
           who
           are
           the
           Preachers
           of
           
             new
             Gospels
             ,
          
           and
           consequently
           who
           be
           the
           
             setters
             of
             division
             ;
          
           and
           who
           they
           be
           upon
           whom
           their
           scandalous
           conclusions
           fall
           .
        
         
           And
           as
           for
           
             Tolerations
             of
             all
             Religions
          
           I
           cannot
           conceive
           to
           be
           proper
           ;
           for
           there
           is
           but
           one
           true
           Religion
           ,
           and
           that
           is
           it
           which
           hath
           Gods
           Word
           for
           their
           rule
           .
        
         
           And
           for
           
             breaking
             Sabbaths
             ,
          
           we
           know
           the
           Christian
           Sabbath
           now
           under
           the
           Gospel
           is
           the
           first
           day
           of
           the
           week
           (
           commonly
           called
           Sonday
           )
           or
           the
           Lords
           day
           ,
           which
           we
           judge
           our selves
           bound
           in
           conscience
           to
           set
           apart
           for
           the
           worship
           and
           service
           of
           God
           by
           the
           Rules
           of
           Scripture
           both
           Law
           and
           Gospel
           ;
           and
           are
           also
           free
           to
           submit
           to
           the
           
             Magistrates
             command
          
           to
           humble
           our selves
           before
           God
           in
           case
           of
           eminent
           danger
           ,
           and
           to
           give
           him
           
             publick
             thanks
          
           for
           all
           eminent
           deliverances
           ,
           the
           Magistrates
           command
           being
           grounded
           upon
           the
           Word
           of
           God
           .
        
         
           Therfore
           the
           Presbyterians
           slandring
           the
           people
           of
           God
           ,
           will
           make
           their
           reformation
           the
           more
           difficult
           ;
           for
           
             no
             man
             ever
             set
             himself
             up
             honestly
             ,
             by
             accusing
             of
             others
             falsly
             .
          
        
         
           And
           as
           touching
           our
           
             Brethren
             the
             Scots
             ,
          
           we
           honour
           them
           for
           their
           parts
           ,
           and
           shall
           remain
           thankfull
           unto
           God
           for
           them
           ,
           or
           for
           any
           help
           we
           have
           received
           from
           them
           ;
           yet
           we
           can
           never
           submit
           our
           consciences
           to
           be
           captivated
           ,
           or
           made
           subject
           to
           mens
           wils
           :
           for
           God
           onely
           hath
           power
           in
           that
           case
           .
           Yet
           I
           speak
           freely
           (
           for
           my
           part
           )
           I
           shall
           not
           be
           offended
           at
           whatever
           lawfull
           Government
           the
           Parliament
           in
           their
           wisdom
           shall
           set
           up
           in
           the
           Nation
           for
           the
           preaching
           of
           the
           Gospel
           ,
           to
           bring
           those
           thousands
           ,
           and
           millions
           of
           people
           ,
           (
           who
           yet
           lie
           in
           ignorance
           )
           to
           the
           knowledge
           of
           God
           ,
           and
           obedience
           of
           the
           faith
           ,
           that
           so
           they
           may
           become
           fit
           matter
           ,
           even
           
             living
             stones
             to
             be
             built
             to
             God
             a
             spirituall
             house
             :
          
           for
           
             there
             can
             be
             no
             true
             reformation
             in
             a
             State
             of
             generall
             Apostasie
             ,
             but
             by
             seperating
             the
             precious
             from
             the
             vile
             ;
          
           and
           not
           to
           impose
           the
           worship
           of
           God
           on
           a
           people
           that
           are
           not
           capable
           ,
           for
           that
           will
           bring
           a
           curse
           rather
           then
           a
           blessing
           ;
           Therefore
           the
           truly
           godly
           ought
           to
           arise
           and
           be
           doing
           ,
           and
           God
           hath
           promised
           to
           be
           with
           them
           ,
           and
           they
           are
           not
           to
           neglect
           to
           worship
           God
           for
           want
           of
           the
           command
           of
           Authority
           ,
           as
           is
           the
           manner
           of
           many
           .
        
         
           Moreover
           ,
           these
           take
           notice
           that
           
             God
             hath
             rewarded
             the
             beginnings
             of
             the
             Parliaments
             Reformation
             ;
          
           And
           truly
           all
           Christians
           ought
           to
           observe
           the
           same
           ;
           for
           God
           useth
           to
           reward
           all
           those
           that
           do
           his
           will
           .
           And
           I
           hope
           God
           will
           still
           be
           mercifull
           to
           them
           if
           Justice
           be
           executed
           by
           them
           .
           And
           it
           is
           to
           be
           desired
           that
           the
           wicked
           may
           be
           brought
           to
           condigne
           punishment
           ,
           and
           the
           innocent
           set
           free
           who
           have
           lain
           in
           prison
           a
           long
           time
           for
           worshipping
           the
           true
           God
           after
           the
           true
           manner
           ,
           as
           Mr.
           
             Turner
          
           hath
           ,
           who
           is
           therefore
           in
           prison
           at
           Westminster
           ;
           and
           others
           who
           also
           suffer
           in
           the
           like
           case
           ,
           such
           out-breakings
           of
           envy
           (
           I
           am
           sure
           )
           procure
           no
           mercy
           but
           judgement
           .
        
         
           Now
           that
           the
           Parliament
           may
           
             hasten
             to
             set
             up
             Christs
             true
             discipline
             which
             he
             hath
             left
             to
             his
             Church
             ;
          
           that
           is
           and
           ought
           to
           be
           the
           desire
           of
           all
           Christians
           .
           But
           that
           
             the
             modell
          
           (
           specified
           in
           the
           Petition
           )
           is
           it
           ,
           stands
           the
           Presbyterians
           upon
           to
           prove
           .
           And
           therefore
           (
           in
           my
           judgement
           )
           it
           were
           better
           for
           them
           to
           make
           their
           confession
           of
           faith
           and
           catechise
           first
           ,
           according
           to
           the
           rule
           of
           Gods
           Word
           ,
           and
           then
           shape
           their
           Church
           according
           to
           that
           ,
           rather
           then
           shape
           their
           Church
           according
           to
           the
           modell
           ,
           and
           their
           faith
           according
           to
           their
           Church
           .
           
             Prepare
             thy
             work
             without
             ,
             and
             make
             it
             fit
             for
             thy self
             in
             the
             field
             :
             and
             afterwards
             build
             thine
             house
             .
          
           
             Prov.
             24.
             27.
             
          
        
         
           
             K.
             C.