An answer to a paper entituled The case of the Protestant dissenters of Ireland in reference to a bill of indulgence, represented and argued. Pullen, Tobias, 1648-1713. 1695 Approx. 23 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 4 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2007-01 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A56270 Wing P4193 ESTC R222510 99833673 99833673 38151 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A56270) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 38151) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 2176:14) An answer to a paper entituled The case of the Protestant dissenters of Ireland in reference to a bill of indulgence, represented and argued. Pullen, Tobias, 1648-1713. Boyse, J. (Joseph), 1660-1728, attributed name. 6 p. printed by Joseph Ray at the 3 Nags-Heads in Essex-street, [Dublin : 1695] By Tobias Pullen; sometimes also attributed to Joseph Boyse (cf. Halkett & Laing). Caption title. Imprint from Wing. Some print show-through. Reproduction of the original in the Bodleian Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Case of the dissenting Protestants of Ireland -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800. Protestants -- Ireland -- Early works to 1800. 2006-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2006-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2006-07 Emma (Leeson) Huber Sampled and proofread 2006-07 Emma (Leeson) Huber Text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-09 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion AN ANSWER TO A PAPER ENTITULED THE CASE Of the Protestant DISSENTERS Of IRELAND , In Reference to a BILL of Indulgence , Represented and Argued . THERE being a Paper lately Publish't , Intitul'd , The Case of the Protestant Dissenters of Ireland , in Reference to a Bill of Indulgence , Represented , and Argued . I shall endeavour to shew , that tho , the Author has truly Represented the Desires of the Dissenting Protestants among us , yet he has weakly Argued for the granting of them . The Desires of the Dissenting Protestants , he Comprises in these Two Propositions ; First , that by a Bill of Indulgence a full Security for the free Exercise of Religion according to their Consciences may be given them . Secondly , That there be no such Clauses annex't to it , as may Disable 'em from Serving their King , and their Country . As to the first of these Desires , I believe there are few or none but will agree to secure to 'em by Law , the Free Exercise of their Religion , tho 't is plain , the Authors Arguments do not evince the necessity of it , as may appear by a distinct Consideration of ' em . The first of which is this , That since our Security consists in the Number and Union of Protestants , this Bill will promote both , by drawing Protestant Dissenters from abroad , and by Uniting those at home , and by securing their Affections to the Government , that grants 'em this Indulgence . Now to this , I answer : First , That this Indulgence will tend rather to the multiplicity of Sects , than to the increase of the Number of Protestants , and will most successfully promote those very Designs , which our Author vainly imagins it the best Expedient to obstruct ; For a general Indulgence has always prov'd instrumental to the advancing the Popish Interest among us , and has therefore been vigorously promoted by Popish Emissaries in England , and that by express Orders from their Superiors abroad , who have Experimentally found it to be the most effectual method of Introducing Popery into a Country , and have expended very Considerable sums of Money , for the purchase of Tolerations to Dissenters . Before I reply to what is said , concerning drawing over Protestant Dissenters from abroad , by this Bill of Indulgence ; I shall propose this Question , whether the Granting Liberty of Conscience , with the Sacramental Test , will not be as effectual to the Peopling of this Kingdom with English Conformists , as a general Toleration , without restrictive Clauses to the planting of it with Scotch Dissenters ? But to return , I presume by what the Author says , concerning drawing over Protestant Dissenters from abroad ; he cannot mean Foreigners , because he acknowledges them to be provided for , by an Act past the last Parliament in their Favour . He must therefore wholly , or more especially design the Dissenting Protestants of Scotland : Now in Reference to these , I leave it to the serious Consideration of every judicious , and impartial Reader , First , whether that Sect among 'em , whose violent Principles have unqualified 'em for Indulgence there should be Tolerated here ? Can we Reasonably expect , that those who are so Turbulent in their own Countrey , shou'd be quiet in ours ? Or that by their being Transplanted into another Soil , and by a kind and Indulgent Cultivation of them , we may gather Figs off this sharpest sort of Thistles ? Secondly , whether the Free and Publick exercise of Religion should be Indulg'd to others of them , who have publickly Declar'd our Church Government to be Antichristian , and have solemnly sworn to Extirpate Prelacy ? Thirdly , whether those that are the most moderate among 'em , can with Reason expect , but that with the same measure they have Meted to their Brethren , the Episcopal Clergy in their own Countrey , it should be measur'd to them again , when they come to settle in this Kingdom ? So that if any Indulgence be granted , 't is purely the Result of our own Charitable Inclinations , and a plain Evidence to the World , that our just Resentments of their Severity to others , has not Alienated our affections from them . Neither will this Indulgence probably tend to the Uniting of Protestants at home , as is too fully prov'd by Experience in England ; where the present Toleration has not had that good effect ; neither can we in Reason expect it should be more Successful here ; for if it equally extend to all Parties and Denominations of Protestant Dissenters , their mutual jealousies of one another , and their Respective endeavours to propagate their Opinions , and to promote their Temporal Interests , will naturally create great Heats and Animosities ; but if the benefit of the Indulgence be unequally distributed , it will be so far from being a means of supporting , that it will considerably weaken the Government by disobliging all , but those that are particularly Encourag'd , and Caress'd by it . But Secondly , as this Indulgence is not Necessary for the common Protestant Interest in this Kingdom ; so neither is it so highly reasonable , as the Author pretends , as may appear , by a particular Consideration of the Arguments he makes use of to prove it . For first , as the early Zeal of the Dissenters , in behalf of this Government , may Intitle 'em to its Protection , so it can't be deny'd but that they have enjoy'd it ever since the Revolution , and have Receiv'd more than ordinary marks of Royal Favour , partly by the free Liberty that is granted 'em throughout the Kingdom , for the publick Exercise of their Religion , and for the Building of Meeting Houses , even in Corporate Towns ; as also by his Majesties bounty , in allowing Yearly hitherto a considerable Sum for the maintenance of their Ministers . Secondly , there seems to be more than ordinary Reason to make an Act in behalf of Foreign Protestants , because they are found by experience to have more favourable Thoughts of ; and more forward Inclinations to our Church-Government and Worship , than others have . And besides , 't is Observable , that the free Exercise of Religion , which was granted 'em by the late Act , was to continue but for seven Years , in which time it was suppos'd they might Learn our Language , and be Instructed in the Principles and Worship of the Establish't Church , and 't was with good Reason hop't that after the Expiration of that Term. ●●ey would declare themselves Members of our Communion . And I 'me credibly Inform'd , that of Eleven Congregations of Foreign Protestants in London , there are Nine Conformists . Thirdly , The Papists are not in equal circumstances of publick Favour with our Dissenting Brethren ; for as the Liberty they have in the Exercise of their Religion , was extorted from the Government , by the pressing necessity of publick Affairs , so it is not confirm'd to them by any Act of Parliament , as this Indulgence is expected , and I suppose , design'd to be to the Dissenters . And Fourthly , the experience that our Dissenting Brethren have had of our Tenderness towards them heretofore , is a sufficient Argument and Security to 'em of our future Kindness ; for we consider our mutual Agreement in the same Articles of Faith , and are glad this Author is pleas'd to declare , That the suppressing of Protestant Dissenters , by the strict execution of Penal Laws , is a Practice that has a just Odium left upon it ; but are sorry , That the just Odium left upon it among us , should be wholly confin'd to us , and that this Practice should have no Censure , nor Reflection cast upon it among our Neighbours : And 't is strange , that the Author should say , that there is so apparent a contrariety in it , to the mild and merciful Genius of our Holy Religion , seeing he can't but know the time when it was an avow'd Doctrine , and a General Practice among the Presbyterians and Independants , to bar the Members of the Church of England from the Free Exercise of Divine Worship according to their Consciences : And 't is as strange , that this Practice should be so apparently contrary to our Holy Religion , and have so mischievous Effects upon the publick Peace here in this Kingdom , and yet be thought so great an Evidence of a truly Christian Zeal , and so effectual an Instrument of publick Good in Scotland ; and how possibly can our Author hope , That all Protestants are in this Point come to a better Temper , than to gratifie their Enemies by Ruining their Brethren , when there is so plain a Demonstration of the contrary ; unless he be of Opinion , that what is accounted a Warm and Sanguine Temper of Religion there , is to be esteem'd the raging Heat of a malignant Feavor here . Fourthly , as concerning the establishing Toleration by a Law ; the Reason why some may be against it , is not ( as our Author do's invidiously insinuate ) that they wait for a more favourable opportunity of Reviving the former Severities , but that they may still have it in their Power to shew their Tenderness to their Dissenting Brethren , and may prevent , or repress the misdemeanors that some Nonconformists may possibly be Guilty of , if they had a Legal Toleration ; as also , that they may secure the Established Religion they profess , against the Dangerous Consequences they fear from a General Indulgence . And Lastly , as to what he says concerning His Majesties Declaration , I desire this Author to consider more seriously , whether there be not some others in the Three Kingdoms besides the Protestant Dissenters of Ireland , to whom One great end of His Majesties Declaration is yet unaccomplish'd ) and whether there be a Law made to cover the Protestant Episcopal Clergy in Scotland , from Persecution on the Account of Religion . By all which it may plainly be perceiv'd , That 't is not by force of the Authors Arguments for the Necessity , or Reasonableness of Toleration , but purely in compliance to the importunate Desires of our Dissenting Brethren , that the Members of the Establish'd Church are inclin'd to grant 'em a General and Legal Indulgence , as Parents do often humour their Children , in giving 'em those things they eagerly desire , which tho' pleasant to their Pallates , are yet many times prejudicial to their Health , And now , I proceed to the Second Desire of the Protestant Dissenters , which is , That there may be no such Clauses annext to this Bill , as would disable 'em from serving their King and their Country ; which in plain terms is no more than this ; That whereas the Ease to Tender Consciences was the only thing they formerly desir'd ; they now Claim it as their due , to be admitted also into all Honourable and Profitable Employments , and without these , whatever Ease may be given to their Consciences , 't is to be fear'd they will have no quiet in their Minds . But let us hear our Authors Auguments for granting this Bill of Indulgence , without a Sacramental Test annext . First he tells us , That the Sacrament Test in England was chiefly design'd against Papists , but 't is also plain , it was intended against Protestant Dissenters too ; for tho' none but the former be mention'd in the Title , yet the latter are included in the Body of the Act ; and if the Zeal of the English Dissenters against Popery in the late times has not exempted them from a Sacramental Test ; our Dissenting Brethren in this Kingdom , cannot with Modesty expect , that their late Services should Intitle them to any such Immunities . Secondly , He tells us such a Test for disabling Protestant Dissenters for any publick Service , is against the common Protestant Interest of Ireland . Our Circumstances indeed vastly differ , as he says , from those of England , for here the Established Church is more in Danger than there , by the Protestant Dissenters , as well as by the common Enemy : In England one unmixt People does compose the main body of the Nation , which continues still the same ; but here we are made up of several Nations , and there is a daily Accession of great Numbers from a Neighbouring Country , of whom the meaner sort , are generally of a different Communion from the Establish'd Church . Tho' the Nobility and Gentry , ( to their great praise be it spoken ) are generaly Conformists . 'T is possible inded , as he Observes That the Irish may be more Numerous , if there should be a General Peace , and I may add , That 't is highly probable , that the Papists will grow much more Numerous , if there should be a General Indulgence ; and therefore , notwithstanding our Authors Opinion , we cannot think it Reasonable to give the Protestant Interest a wider Bassis here , than it has in Holland ( which is a Place of greatest Liberty in Matters of Religion ) where all Protestants are not equally capable of Employments without Religious Tests . As to what he says , concerning the Danger of a future Rebellion , we hope , that by the late Acts of Parliament made against the Papists , and the diligence of the Magistrates in putting them in Execution , the Irish may be disabled for any New Insurrections ; or if we should fall into the same unhappy Circumstances that we have been lately in , we have Reason to believe , Notwithstanding the Authors disadvantagious Representation of the Temper of the Dissenters ( wherein he intimates , that the excluding them from publick Offices , would incline 'em in future Dangers to desert the publick Service ( the foreboding of which seems equivalent to an Advice to them , and a Menace to us ) Notwithstanding this , I say , we have Reason to believe , that the Consideration of the common Safety , and their Gratitude for their Indulgence , which they now expect , would engage 'em to shew an equal Zeal to what they did before , tho' they should not be wholly on equal Terms with us , since they could not reasonably hope for so kind a Treatment from the Papists , as they have had from us , Thirdly , To what the Author says , to prove , That it does not seem agreeable to the Judgment of the Parliament of England , that any such Test should be impos'd here ; I answer , That as the Substituting the New Oaths , and the Declaration or Test against Popery instead of the Oath of Supremacy did not Repeal the Statute that enjoyns the Sacrament Test in England ; so neither can it with the least shadow of Reason be alledged , That the English Act for the Abrogating the Oath of Supremacy in Ireland , &c. ought to be construed as intended , to prevent the imposing of it here , in case a General Indulgence should be Granted to the Protestant Dissenters in this Kingdom . Fourthly , To the first Argument produc'd by the Author , to prove a Sacrament Test to be as unreasonable as 't is dangerous ; Viz. That it will put the Protestant Dissenters into worse Circumstances , than they are in at present ; I may with great Justice and Reason , Reply , that whatever hardships the Dissenters may pretend , they should be under by those Restrictions ; I am sure the Members of the Establish'd Church would be in far worse Circumstances than they now are in , if an Indulgence should be Granted without those Clauses . First , 'T is too Notorious to be denied , That the Conformists at Sligo , and Crum , at Inniskillen and Derry , did appear at least as early , and Act as Zealously for this Government as the Dissenters ; and consequently the Conformists will have Reason to think themselves severely dealt with , if no other way can be found of Rewarding the Services of the former , without the apparent hazarding the most valuable Rights of the latter , by Granting the Dissenters such an Indulgence , and by admitting them into such Offices as may give 'em Power and Opportunity to alter the whole Frame of the present Church Government . Secondly , As to what is said concerning the Sacraments not being a fit Test of Admission into Offices ; I observe , First , that the Arguments he makes use of in this matter , are much the same with those that were urg'd in the late Reign , for the taking off the Penal Laws and Test . Secondly , I answer more distinctly . That by this Sacramental Test , we do not prostitute that Holy Institution to mean and worldly Purposes , as our Author insinuates ; but Religion being the great Band of Humane Society , 't is highly Reasonable , that those Persons should be Rewarded , as well as Intrusted with Employments in the State that give the greatest Evidences of their Piety to Almighty God ; And if this Argument of our Authors be valid , 't will not only conclude against this but all other Religious Tests ; and then the most Scandalous Neglects of Holy Duties , must not be accounted a sufficient Bar to an Admission into the most considerable Offices , for fear of Prostituting the Ordinances of Divine Worship , and of Driving Unworthy Persons to a participation of those Sacred Mysteries ; And if , as our Author says , the Interest of Religion is very little concerned in the Posture of Receiving the Holy Sacrament ; why should any Person seperate from the Communion of the Establish'd Church , on Account of that which our Author is pleas'd to call a Trivial Matter , and a Trifle : But if any Man refuse to give the State so Trivial and inconsiderable a Mark of his Complyance to its Orders and Injunctions : There is no Reason why such an one should be intrusted with the Management of the Civil and Military Offices , or that they should be esteemed such Vseful Persons , that it should be thought the Interest of the Government to comprehend ' em . The Case that our Author puts of a Man endued with Eminent Wisdom ; Integrity , &c. is scarcely to be be suppos'd ; for no Man surely , that deserves that Character , will unqualifie himself to serve his King , his Countrey , and his Temporal Interest too , by refusing to Receive the Holy Sacrament in such a Posture , which our Author acknowledges , is more expressive of our Reverence to our Saviour , than that which is in Use among the Dissenters . However , as a Reward to those that have been more than ordinarily Remarkable for their Services to His Majesty , and are now in any Civil , or Military Employment , it may perhaps be thought convenient , that Persons so Qualified , may be excepted as Nominees , and hold their Offices , notwithstanding their Refusal of the Sacramental Test . Lastly , whereas our Author says , that the Establish't Church will be no way indanger'd by the Indulgence he is pleading for , I answer that tho' the Honours and Revenues of the Clergy are now secur'd to 'em , yet we cannot foresee the Difficulties the Conforming Clergy may possibly contest with , in asserting the Rites of the Church , if Nonconformists were Qualified for Civil Offices ; and besides , we are far less concern'd for the security of our Temporal Interest , than for the Establishment of our Antient , Holy and Peaceable Religion . I am far from detracting from the good Services which the Dissenters did the King and the Nation , in being joynt Instruments with the Conformists in the Preservation of Derry and Inniskillin ; nor would I exclude 'em from a Capacity of concurring to preserve their Country again . But as in the late Troubles common Safety , and the publick Interest of the Nation did oblige 'em to take up Arms , so if a like juncture should happen , ( which God forbid ) they may be in the same Circumstances to serve their King and Country as before , tho' they be not Legally qualified for Offices , by a General and Unlimited Indulgence . As to the Authors Commendations of the Peaceable Temper of the Dissenters of this Kingdom , it is to be Observed , That they have not had the same opportunities of discovering their unpeaceable Turbulency towards their Neighbours , as their Brethren in Scotland at present have , or of expressing their Dissatisfaction to the Government , as both they and the Dissenters in England have formerly had ; but if ever they should be in the like Circumstances here , we have no great Reason to expect much more favourable Usage , nor the Government a more Dutiful Obedience from them . Good Nature and common Prudence will indeed direct us to provide for our own Security , by condescending to all the Reasonable Requests of our Dissenting Friends ; but no Motives ought to prevail on us , to make such Large Concessions to them , as will in all probability shake the very Foundations of the Establish'd Church . DUBLIN , Printed by Joseph Ray at the 3 Nags-Heads in Essex-street , 1695.