A letter from an English reformed Quaker, to his friend in Scotland of the same perswasion: with the answer and reply thereto. J. L. 1700 Approx. 14 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2008-09 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A49315 Wing L33 ESTC R213945 99826193 99826193 30588 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A49315) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 30588) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1761:22) A letter from an English reformed Quaker, to his friend in Scotland of the same perswasion: with the answer and reply thereto. J. L. G. H. aut 8 p. s.n., [London : 1700] Signed: J.L.; the reply is signed: G.H. Caption title. Imprint from Wing. Reproduction of the original in the Henry E. Huntington Library and Art Gallery. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Quakers -- England -- Early works to 1800. 2007-01 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-01 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-02 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2007-02 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A LETTER FROM An English Reformed Quaker , To his Friend in Scotland of the same Perswasion : With the Answer and Reply thereto . MY Friends , I once shewed my self bent and couragious for your Principles ; yea not only so , but counted you the only Apostles of our Land : But being now by the grace of God convinced of your evil Practices , Diabolical Opinions , and Erronious Ways , I cannot but in Conscience tell you the reasons why I now leave and depart from your Society , and am convinced , that no well grounded person in the Principles of Religion , and even those of your own Faction will discommend me therefore ▪ after a serious and impartial tryal of these few following Reasons ▪ But multiplicity of words being vanity , I proceed to the thing intended ; And it is this , First , Whether or not do ye owne the Scriptures to be the Word of God ▪ Ye say , ye do owne them to be such ; yet notwithstanding whereof ye deny part of them . But Secondly , Ye are worse than the Papists ; For we cannot charge them with such a defection from the Scripture , as we can charge you with ; for ye owne part of your Translation , and other Part thereof ye deny , notwithstanding of the curse that is pronounced against Adders to the Scriptures , or Parers therefrom , which saith , Cursed is he that addeth or taketh from the Scriptures , for his name shall be taken out of the Book of Life . But the Papists they owne their whole Translation , and addeth nothing thereto , nor pareth nothing therefrom ; yet that part of the Scriptures which ye owne , ye altogether misconstruct , and take it in as literal a sense , as if the Scriptures were not at all myste●●ous ; But if we take them in so literal a sense , they shall seem contradictory the one part thereof to the other . As for example , when our Saviour was accused and mocked by the high Priests and Elders , he answered nothing ; and when he was beat in the high Priests Hall , he checked his smiters , saying , If I have spoken evil , bear witness of the evil ; but if well , why smitest thou me ? Which places conform to the Literal sense thereof , seem contradictory as aforesaid . Secondly , I shall treat upon brotherly love , as the first part of your misconstructions , instituted by our Saviour himself , in that 5 Chapter of that Epistle of St. Paul directed to the Ephesians , Verse 2. Which saith , Walk in love , even as I have loved you . But I understand not what sort of love this can be of yours , that suppose a man should beat you , scandalize your honest name and reputation , defraud you of your goods , and seek to invade your persons , yet ye will not at all reprove him ; whereas God himself expresly commanded the contrary , saying , Leviticus 19. 17. Thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour , and not suffer sin upon him , and Christs own Warrand for reproof in the above-cited place : But the right Interpretation of brotherly love is , before ye avenge your self of your Neighbour , rather suffer a double injury , remitting your Cause to God , who , saith St. Paul , Rom. 12. 19. Vengeance is mine , and I will repay it . Thirdly , Quaeritur , Whether or not ye deny the two Sacraments ? I know by my own Experience that ye do so . I shall begin with the First , viz. Baptism , which serves 10. For washing and purifying us from our sins , Mat. 28. 19. 20. A Sign and Seal for ingrafting us into Christ , Gal. 3. 27. And Christs own Warrand for it , saying , Go ye thorow all Nations , Baptizing them in the Name of the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost . Fo●●thly , Ye deny also the Lords Supper ▪ therefore I shall speak a little to that Point likewise , which is this , viz. We have Christs own Warrand for it , 1 Cor. 11. 23 , 24 , 25 , 26. which saith , That the same night wherein he was betrayed he took bread , and after he had given thanks , brake it , and said , Take ye , eat ye , this is my body , which is broken for you , this do in remembrance of me . After the same manner also he took the Cup when he had supped , saying , This Cup is the New Testament in my blood , which is shed for the sins of many ; this do ye as oft as ye drink it in remembrance of me , &c. Fifthly , What say ye anent not giving Thanks for your daily Food ; Christ was not of your mind , for he gave Thanks when he brake Bread , as is expresly set down in the above-cited place . I would only ask you , whether you merit any such thing at Gods hands , or not ? If ye do not , then consequently ye are the most ungrateful people in the World , who will not so much as give God thanks for your sustenance . Sitxhly . What say ye anent Womens Preaching , I find one express Word to the contrary , 1 Timothy 2. 11. 12. Suffer not a Woman to Teach , but to be in silence , and learn with all submission , &c. As likewise , ye suffer all Persons to Preach , although never so Illiterat ▪ Whereas the contrair is exprest , in Deut. 17. chap. 9. 11 , 12 , and 13. verses . As also the Word of GOD is to be preached by those that are sufficiently Gifted . Seventhly , Ye deny giving Honour to any Person ; But Jacob was not of your Opinion , when he met with Isaac , he embraced , and saluted him , and fell on his neck , and kissed him , Gen. 33. chap. and verse 4. Now my Friends , Ye see how I have numbered up some few Errors out of many , but I content my self with those few , which may be ●●fficient ( if God will ) to reclaim you from your Errors , recall you from your Apostasie ; and as if it were to give Divorce to that evil Spirit , which hath too long possessed you ; for if ye continue in that Diabolical opinion of yours , I can liken you to no other thing than Wolves in Lambs Skins , Monsters that destroys all that is Sacred both in Heaven and Earth , and tears all in order to Salvation . Therfore ye should try the Spirit , whether it be of God or of Belial . I would we were all of one mind , and that God would break in upon your hard and stony hearts , and sow the good seed of the Word therein , that ye may turn unto him : But if ye will not turn while the voice is calling , Turn ye , turn ye , why will ye die ? But continue in your perverse ways , God that made you will not save you , but cast you out of his sight for ever . Therefore , my Friends , prevent that ●ourse by speedy repentance , and say with holy Job , If I have done iniquity , I will do it no more . Sir , I rest , Your most humble Servant , J. L. Answers to that Letter presented by some of the Clergy against us . Friend , YE talk , that ye once was a Man bent upon our Principles and counted us ( as ye say your selves ) the only Apostles of our Land ; and ye say , that ye cannot but depart from our Society , upon the account of some few alledged Errors , of our Profession , which thou hast Summed up in a Sheet of Paper , and in the Conclusion of it , thou tells us : That if we abide in this Diabolical Opinion of ours , thou can liken us to no other thing than Wolfs in Lambs Skins ; and a Monster , that destroys all that is Sacred , both in Heaven and Earth , and Tears all to Pieces , in Order to Salvation ; By which Sentence and Expression of your Folly , thou hast committed an high Sin against God , and hast put a shame upon that Opinion which thou dost profess ; as if we could ascend up unto Heaven , and take it by force , ( if we may so speak ) and thou likewise sayest , that we are this day an Angel of Light , and to Morrow a Beelzebub : which Expression , ought rather to be spoken against your selves , than against us , for ye are always Various in your mind , and can never content your selves with one and the same Principle , but alters many things in the same ; whereas we are the same Church to day that we were a thousand years since ; As also ye say , that suppose a Man should beat us , scandalize our honest Name and Reputation , and defraud us of our Goods , &c. We will not at all reprove him ; Whereas we have Christ our Saviour his own example for the same , as is evident , and clearly appears in that 27. chap. of his Gospel , written by St. Matthew , 12 , 13 , and 14 verses of that Chapter , which says , That when he was accused , and mocked of the high Priests and Elders , he answered them nothing &c. And in like manner , in that Fifth Chapter of St. Matthew at 13. v. of that Chapter , he sayeth , Whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheeck , turn to him the other also . And sicklike , ye charge us with defection from the Scriptures , and calls us worse than the Papists , because ye say , we owne part of your Translation , and denys other parts thereof , but they owne their whole Translation , which speaks forth evidently against your selves ; and by the same ●eans ye prove your selves worse than them . I say no more , but wish you may turn you from your folly , and turn you to the good old way , and we shall be one People , as there is but one Shepherd . Your Assured Friend G. H. A Reply to the above-written Answer . FIrst when I set Pen to Paper , and Compyled my last Treaty in form of a Letter , ( which is a short View of some few Errors of that Sectary called Quakers , but if I have past any thing in it , I hope the Reader will be Candid , and judge Discreetly of the same , considering the Indisposition of the Author ) and I thought not it should be laid open to the View of the whole World , but by reason of an confused and insignificant Answer which I have received , made and composed by some of their own Faction , not proceeding orderly , but first coming to the Conclusion , and then to some few Paragraphs thereof , whereby they may get some little shaddow of Scripture at they pretend to , albeit strictè loquendo ut antea pr●d●o●tur , ye shall find the Places which they have cited literall sensu sumpia Nonsense , ( if I may so speak ) as is above-specified , therefore I have been forced to add this following Reply ▪ wherein till ( by Gods Grace and Assistance ) I shall orderly proceed , and add the Reply ●s following . As to the first Paragraph , Which is the Doctrine of Non Reprobation , Ye say , That ye have our Saviour Christ his own Example and Warrand therefore ▪ which if holden as a part of your Religion , it will make the Scriptures contradictory the one part thereof to the other ; as for Example , When our Saviour was accused , abused , and mocked by the High-Priests and Elders , he answered them nothing ; and when he sayeth , whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek , turn to him the other also ▪ notwithstanding when he was smitten in the High-Priests-Hall , he checked and reproved his Smiters , saying , If I have spoken evil , bear witness of the evil ; but if well , why smitest thou me ; which places seems contradictory to the other , conform to the Literal Sense thereof ; but strictè considerando & figurative loquendo eadem significant , as is above rehearsed . As to the second , ye say , That ye can destroy nothing that is Sacred , neither in Heaven or Earth , Whereas by your evil ways , ye draw others from the Faith , and Deludes your selves , and thereby heaps up Wrath against the day of Wrath to fall upon your selves , and adds Fewel to Hells Fire . Thirdly , Ye say that ye were the same Church 1000 years since that ye are yet , whereas the Errors , which have risen up in the Church , which ye do thereby defile , we find were not come in at the six Century , neither was the Church ever governed by Quakers . Fourthly , Ye say we Confute our selves in this Point , viz. That ye are worse than the Papists , because ye do owne part of our Translation and denyes another part thereof . To which I Reply ▪ That seing the Papists have a Translation , although somewhat different from ours , yet ownes the whole therein contained , in that respect they are better ; but ye owning part of your Translation , and another part thereof denying , ye are much worse than them in that respect . But seing every Person , though never so Illiterate ▪ doth Confute your Errors , I with the Eastern Churches do leave you ( seing I can prevail nothing ) to wallow in your Filthiness ; and I Protest , and take God to be my Witnes , I would by the Grace and Assistance of God have reclaimed you ▪ and did endeavour as far as in me lay to heal your Back-slidings , but ye hated Instruction and refused to be Informed ; and so I fear , that that Word is fulfilled on you , which sayeth , He that is filthy , let him be filthy still . FINIS