Some queries proposed, to the monethly meeting of the Quakers at Aberdeen; the sixth day of June, 1700. By Robert Sandilands With their answers thereto; together with some remarks thereupon. Published by authority. To which is prefixed a letter from George Keith, sent to the Quakers in Aberdeen, containing a very serious and Christian expostulation with his old friends, &c. Sandilands, Robert. 1700 Approx. 76 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 18 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A62157 Wing S663 ESTC R220626 99832022 99832022 36490 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A62157) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 36490) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 2133:8) Some queries proposed, to the monethly meeting of the Quakers at Aberdeen; the sixth day of June, 1700. By Robert Sandilands With their answers thereto; together with some remarks thereupon. Published by authority. To which is prefixed a letter from George Keith, sent to the Quakers in Aberdeen, containing a very serious and Christian expostulation with his old friends, &c. Sandilands, Robert. Keith, George, 1639?-1716. aut [6], 26 p. printed by Iohn Forbes, printer to the City and University, Aberdeen : [1700] Publication date from Wing. "George Keith's letter" has caption title on p. 1. Some print faded. Reproduction of the original in the British Library. 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Christianity -- Early works to 1800. 2005-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-07 Rachel Losh Sampled and proofread 2005-07 Rachel Losh Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion SOME QUERIES Proposed , to the Monethly Meeting of the Quakers at ABERDEEN ; the sixth Day of June , 1700. By ROBERT SANDILANDS : With their ANSWERS thereto ; together with some Remarks thereupon . Published by Authority . To which is Prefixed a Letter from GEORGE KEITH , sent to the Quakers in ABERDEEN , Containing a very serious and Christian Expostulation with his Old Friends , &c. Gal. 4. 16. Am I therefore become Your Enemy , because I tell You the Truth . ABERDEEN , Printed by IOHN FORBES , Printer to the CITY and UNIVERSITY . To the Right Honourable THOMAS MITCHEL , Lord Provost . Bailies . ALEXANDER RAGG , ALEXANDER FORBES , ALEXANDER KER , ALEXANDER PATON , IOHN LESLIE , Dean of Gild , WILLIAM CROWDEN , Thesaurer . And to the rest of the Honourable Council of the City of ABERDEEN . RIGHT HONOURABLE , THE Hereditary Tyes I am under to the City of Aberdeen , ( of which my Father was Recorder several years ) wherein many of my Friends Live , and some whereof have been Honoured with the most eminent Posts in the Magistracy , and of which I my self am a Native and Burger , are so strong , that they need no new motives to raise and preserve in me , the greatest Honour , and the most sincere Love for the Place : And ye who are the present worthy Governours hereof , have surpriz'd me with such new favours and Personal Obligations , since my last Return to your City , that nothing but a publick acknowledgment , can secure me against the Reproach of Ingratitude . Those Shelves on which , I and many well designing , but seduced Christians had Shipwrack'd the true Faith , could not be sufficiently guarded against , nor those who are already fallen into fatal delusions recovered and restored , otherwayes , then by exposing to the impartial view of the World , the gross and vile Errours , that ly couched under the mask of Divine Illuminations , and the palpable Contradictions that are maintained by different parties of that Society , which pretends to be guided and influenced in every point , by the unerring Spirit of Infinite Wisdom . And as Love to Christianity and Charity to the Souls of others , has induced me first to Propose , and then to publish the following Queries and Remarks , so I cannot in Justice conceal your Forwardness and Zeal , to Countenance and encourage me in vindication of the Truth , and to allow what ever might be of use to me , in defence of the Truth , which I have endeavoured to doe , with the greatest simplicity . And that GOD may strengthen you and raise up others , to be valiant for Truth and Holiness , shall ever be the hearty Prayer of , Right Honourable , Your Most Obliged and Obedient Servant , ROBERT SANDILANDS . To the Christian Reader . SEEing , it hath graciously pleased Almighty GOD , in his Infinite Mercy , to discover to me as well as many more in England , ( who for sometime had lived in communion with the People called Quakers ) those many gross Errours , that were maintained in Print , by their Chief Teachers ; which nevertheless , I my self never owned , but alwayes sincerely believed the most necessary fundamental Truths of Christianity , profest in common by all PROTESTANTS ; though I must confess I was so far misled , as to believe that more stress was to be laid on the Light within , then on Faith in an outward Crucified JESUS ; &c. I therefore judged my self bound in Conscience , not only to separat from them , but also to return to this my Native Countrey , where I first joined with them , and there give a publick Testimony to the Truth , and endeavour in the Strength of the LORD , to satisfie my old Friends and Relations , that as I erred through ignorance and unbelief , never knowing nor being any way perswaded , till of late that such gross Errours were owned by them , which if I had in the least suspected , I think I should never have been prevailed with to have joined with them : So I hope , that the Quakers both here and else where ( who are sincere and honest hearted ) when they are made sensible of and discover the same ( which they may doe , by impartially searching , as I have done their own authentick writtings ) shall be of one mind with me , and with me also obtain mercy , so as to have reason to magnifie the Infinite Goodness and Love of GOD in CHRIST JESUS our LORD ; Of this I conceive the more hopes , since I got the Answers of the Principal Quakers , of the last Monethly Meeting at Aberdeen , given to some Queries proposed by me at that Meeting , both which , together with some Remarks on their said Answers are here Printed by Authority of the Magistrats of Aberdeen , and at the desire of some of them , as well as the intreaty of my Friends in this place , I have been induced to make a short Narrative of what passed before the giving , in or Answering the said Queries . Soon after my arrival at Aberdeen , I had occasion to meet with some of the Quakers , whom I discoursed , and more particularly A. Jaffray their chief Teacher in this place , and in our Conferences together , I mention'd some gross passages in W. Penn's Books &c. But he being dissatisfied , proposed that himself and I , with some friends of each side should meet , and after these Books were produced , it might be seen , whether such palpable and gross Errours were vouched in them yea or not . Having so soon as possible I could , got some of them , I wrot to the said A. J. desiring to know , when we should meet , in answer to which he sent me a very passionat and indiscreet Letter , intirely declining the Meeting ( though he himself first proposed the same ) and therein acquainted me if I had any thing to say against them , I should give it , in Write or Print : I therefore went to their Monethly Meeting , where Alexander Forbes of Craigie and Alexander Patton of Kinnaldie ( Bailies in Aberdeen ) with a great many more Persons of good Note were present , and there , after some short discourse , I read the Queries ( as they are here Printed ) of which I left a signed Copie with the Quakers , and gave another to Bailie Paton ; to which after some time I at length obtained the Answers , which I have hereafter subjoined . And that it may appear how groundlesly they lay claim to the immediat and infallible illuminations of the Spirit of GOD , which is in all times , places and persons , the same without contradiction or variation ; I have annexed some Quotations out of their most approved Writters , which most plainly contradict the Doctrine now seemingly owned by A. J. and his Friends . These passages I have here adduced are not to be looked upon , as the opinions of private Authors among the Quakers , but as the Doctrine and Principles maintained by the whole Body of that people in England ; For their Books are not allowed to be Printed or Re-Printed , till first they are approved off , by the second days Meeting at London , and all such Books so approved off , are by an order among them , transmitted to other Monethly or Quarterly Meetings &c. and there is none that I have made use of , have ever been rejected or publickly disapproved by them , ( so far as I know . ) One thing more I must say , which is , that as it is well known to divers in this place , that no outward prospect ever mov'd me to leave the Protestant Religion and join with the Quakers , so I can say in the sight of Almighty GOD , and in the sincerity of my heart , that no Worldly interest induced me , now to leave their communion , but plain conviction and full perswasion of those many gross and pernicious Heresies which were very clearly discovered to me in their Writtings . And as I am convinced , that many sober and serious Persons among them , do not believe or somuch as imagine that such unchristian Doctrines were ever broached or mantained by their chief Ieachers , so I heartily pray that the LORD would enlighten their minds that they may both discover and acknowledge their Errours and abhore them as much as I do . GEORGE KEITH'S Letter . My Old Friends , Andrew Jaffray , Iohn Robertson , Robert Gordon , Iohn Forbes of Achortes , &c. HAving the occasion of the Bearer , I thought fit to send you my fourth Narrative , and another late Book of mine called the Deism of William Penn , &c : which I desire you to read impartially and without prejudice . I hope ye will not be so strait as not to read them , for as ever I could and did very freely read the Books of any against me , so I still can , and do readily read them . The said Narrative as to the truth of the Quotations , is attested by men of Credit , and beside I suppose , many of the Books that I have quoted in the same , ye may have by you , and some others ye may easily procure , whereby to find whether my Quotations be true and just , and if you find them so to be , I hope you will calmly and seriously consider them , and Compare them with the Holy Scriptures , which I beseech you more diligently to search , with earnest Prayer to God Almigty , that he would give you a good understanding , by His Divine Illumination , by which you will see that the chief Teachers of the Quakers ( whom both Ye and I have in our Ignorance owned for true Teachers ) have Taught very false Doctrines , contradicting the Holy Scriptures ; in diverse of the great fundamentals of Christianity . I shall not here expostulat with You , for your unkindness to me , Uncharitableness and rash Judgement against me in your Letters and Papers , sent up here to London against me some Yeasr ago . But my Prayer is to God , both for You and others thereaway , that he may give You a better Understanding , and make You more Charitable in Judgement , both to me and others , and more humble in Your own Conceits . I freely own with sorrow and deep Repentance that I have been injurious to You and others thereaway , not in any Wordly matter , but while I was with You , and in my ignorant Zeal , thinking that I did God good Service , that I was any wayes instrumental to mislead and misinform You , and turn You out of the way in any of the least Principle or Practice of Christian Religion . For this I acknowledge that I am a great Debtor to You , and would willingly make restitution and be at as great and greater Pains to undeceive You , and bring You out of the Mire , as ever I was to lead You into it , but if You refuse my offer , God ( I doubt not ) will forgive me , and not lay it to my Charge , and the Sin will ly at your Door . I hope I can say as Paul said , I have obtained Mercy because I did it ignorantly . The main things wherein I Charge my self to have misinformed You , and any others , either by my Words or Books , are , in leading You into great Unchatitablene●s towards all other Protestant Societies , and into too high an Esteem of the People called Quakers , and their Leaders and Teachers and Way of Practice in diverse things , both Religious and Civil , and more especially to the rejecting of the Holy Institutions of our Blessed Lord , of Baptism and the Supper , and setting up Humane Institutions in room of them , as George Fox his orders of Womens Meetings and Government in Church Affairs , the Condemning all other Protestant Teachers , ( though more sound in Faith , and of more Religious Practices ) and Professors of Christianity , as Priests of Baal , and Worshippers of Baal , crying out against their Congregations for their Mixtures : Whereas alas , there has been all along a greater Mixture among the People called Quakers , both as to Unsoundness of Doctrine and Practices . Ye Your selves know how little God is Worshipped with Prayer and Thanksgiving in the Families of the Quakers generally , ( very few excepted ) excusing all by pretence of mental and inward Prayer , and want of Divine Motions to carry them forth in external Acts of Worship . So that to my certain knowledge ( possibly to Yours also ) too many high Pretenders to Spirituality , among the People called Quakers , who are Masters of Families and have Wives and Children and Servants , yet rarely Bow their bodily Knees to God in their Families . And Set-times of Prayer and Thanksgiving , either for the Closet or Family Worship have been generally laid aside . These are the Chief Things for which I have blamed my self , in being instrumental in former Times to have misinformed you though I think all along , I was generally more Charitable in Judgement towards many others of other Societies then many were , or now are among the People called Quakers . But it 's a great Comfort to me that upon a strict Examination of my former Perswasions and Principles , as extant in my former Books ( for which I think I can appeal to You ) as well as what I have declared among You , I was never guilty of that Horrid Unbelief and Antichristian Errors and Heresies , contradicting the chief Fundamentals of Christianity , that I have found the Chief English Teachers among the Quakers guilty of . I desire to Bless God my Preserver , who all along hath Preserved me sound in the Faith , as touching all the twelve ▪ Articles of that called the Apostles-Creed , the God Head and Man hood of Our Blessed Lord JESUS CHRIST , His Person and Offices . For which I desire You to Read and Consider the Answer given by me and my dear and Worthy Friend Alexander Jaffray , ( now with God ) to the thirty Questions sent to him by Bishop Scougal , if that Worthy Man had Lived to this Day in the Body , I Question not but he would have been a Strength to me in my Opposition , to those Vile Errors held by the English Leaders among the Quakers . Viz. G. F. G. W. F. B. and many others . I hoped also that ye had been better Principled against these vile Errors , and that in good Measure by Means of my Labour among You. So that it was no small Surprise to me , to find you join in a Combination against me , with my Adversaries here as you know , ye and Your Friends generally did , soon after my Arrival into England from America . Your pretence then was that ye could not believe , that Friends either in America or England , were guilty of the Errors I had Charged them with , but if you will give your selves the Liberty to Read my late Books , and particularly the two , I now send you , I hope ye will be convinced of the Truth of my Charge , as diverse hereaway both in City and Country , through the Mercy of God are so convinced , but I fear that some among you are too deeply guilty of some of the same Errors . And if ye in particular are not , how can ye in Conscience , own them to be your Christian Brethren , whom I have proved so evidently guilty of them , as particularly the chief Teachers among the Quakers hereaway , some Living and some Deceased . And I earnestly request you to distinguish betwixt any good things , either in Doctrine or Practice ; which ye have seen or observed in me , and whatever was contrary thereunto , so as to cleave unto the former and only reject the latter . What Honesty or Sobriety and Christian Practice ye ever saw in me , I hope to persevere in it and increase in the same , and I desire you to do the like ; but reject your Errors , your Uncharitableness of Judgement towards others , your Spiritual Pride , and over high Esteem of your selves . Believe not every Spirit either in your selves or others , but try the Spirits , and bring all Doctrines and Practices , to the Test of the Holy Scriptures , and pray God , to give you that True Light and Discerning , to help you to make an Impartial Examination . It hath been a great default generally among the people called Quakers , and remains among them too much to Countenance Ignorant Persons , if they pretend to the Spirits Teachings and Motions to Preach and Pray , and Travel from Place to Place as Teachers of others , when yet they want to be taught the first Principles of Christianity , and it s to be feared ye have such ignorant Teachers among you . I am sure I remember when some of you used to blame it in my hearing , and as I desire you to make a distinction betwixt what is right and wrong , in any of my former Doctrines or Practices , ( I hope none of you could ever charge me with any Immorrality or Scandalous Conversation when among you , but that if I wanted an Attestation to that , I think ye would do me that Justice to give me an ample Testimony ) so I would have you to know , that I continue grounded and firmly perswaded as to that most necessary and excellent Doctrine of Gods Inward Teachings , by his Holy Spirit Light and Grace , and his gracious operations and Assistances to enable us , and all good Christians to perform every acceptable Service to him . And whatever ye or any others , may or doe judge of me , I bless my Gracious God , that I feel my self a living member of CHRIST's Body , by partaking daily of the Life and living Vertue of the Head , JESUS CHRIST our Lord , and a Living branch upon that living Vine , and my care is and ever I hope shall be , to abide in him , which I bless God for , I find by true experience , that I can remain and abide such , and yet be reformed in many things in my judgement , and diverse practices , from what I formerly was . It hath been a great mistake in us , to think that we could not be more holy , or soholy as we think we are , or were , without being so excessivly uncharitable towards others , and so contrary to them in our Perswasions and Practices , when as many of their Perswasions and Practices were better then ours , and others of them more inoffensive . I hope ye will excuse my writing thus largely unto you , for it is in true Love and good will , however you receive it , and as I have said I do not expostulat with you , for your injuring me , for I have more injured you ( though not by any Immorality , ) but by being instrumental to have in any wayes misinformed you . I pray God forgive you and me , I remain your truly wel-wishing Friend , George Keith . London 17th 2d Moneth , 1700. To Andrew Jaffray , John Robertson , Alexander Gellie , John Forbes , Robert Gordon , John Glennic ; And the rest of the Monthly Meeting of the people called Quakers at Aberdeen . Something of weighty importance , modestly proposed to your serious Consideration . FRIENDS , Forasmuch , as there hath been , and is some just cause given , to apprehend , that many among the People called Quakers , have not a found Faith , touching diverse great and weighty Doctrines , and principles of the Christian Religion ; plainly delivered in the Holy Scriptures : for both mine and others satisfaction , and also for your own vindication , if so be ( which I should be truly glade of , and rejoice in ) that ye manifest your selves to be really innocent and clear of those gross Errors and Heresies , which the chief English Teachers , among the Quakers have been and are still charged guilty of , and upon which account , only I have in good Conscience been concerned to leave communion with them : not finding that they have in the least as yet cleared themselves of the same , which they can never well do , without a publick and ingenuous retractation of those many unwarrantable and unsound passages in their Books . You are therefore earnestly desired , and requested to give your plain and candid Answer in writing to these following Queries . Querie 1. Whether the Holy Scriptures containing the Old and New Testament called the BIBLE in their plain and literal meaning ? Or the Light within , be the certain fixed and standing Rule , whereby to judge and determine matters of contraversie as to Religion ? Here followers the Quakers Answer . Ans . We believe , that the Holy Scriptures , containing the Old and New Testament ( called the BIBLE ) as having come from the Spirit of GOD , and being written by Men Divinly inspired , ( which we most firmly Believe they were ) when they are opened and explained by the same Spirit of GOD which gave them forth , ( they being of no private interpretation , 2 Pet. 1. and 20. ) are an Infallible Rule of Faith and Life , unto all to whom GOD hath in his Providence been pleased to communicat them , for they being the things of GOD cannot be understood , but by the Spirit of GOD , 1 Cor. 2. 11. Remark , This Answer to the 1 Q. being in all appearance sound and orthodox , ( if they have no secret reserved meaning ) and agreeable to the sense of all sound Protestants , I am heartily glade , that they have deserted the unsound and hetrodox Doctrine , that some of their principal Teachers , both in Scotland and England have vouched in their writtings , in relation to the Holy Scriptures being the Rule of Faith , and therefore the Reader may be pleased to compare this their Answer with what Robert Barclay says ( tho I confess that he and G. K. were the soundest and m●st Orthodox Writters among the Quakers ) in his explanation of his 3d proposition among his Theses Theologicae . The principal Rule ( saith he ) of Christians under the Gospel , is not an outward Letter nor Law outwardly written and delivered , but an Inward Spiritual Law ingraven in the heart , the Law of the Spirit of Life , the word that is nigh in the Heart , and in the Mouth , but the Letter of the Scripture is outward of it self a dead thing , a meer declaration of good things , but not the things themselves ; therefore it , nor is , nor can be the Chief or Principal RULE of Christians . But least any should mistake him and think that tho he owned them not to be the principal Rule , yet at least he acknowledged them to be a RULE , he immediatly adds § 3 That which is given to Christians for a RULE and Guide , must needs be so full , as it may clearly and distinctly Guide and Order them in all things and occurrences , that may fall out . But the Scriptures are not such ( as he instanceth in several particulars ) therefore the Scriptures cannot be a RULE to them . And as they are not a RULE , so nor the Rule , ( as he sayeth in another place ) As for CHRIST and his Apostles , using the Scriptures for convincing of their Opposers , so do we , and yet this proves not that either he or we judge them to be the Rule whereby to try all things and Spirits &c. The Reader may plainly observe the great inconsistency betwixt what R. B. says and what Andrew Jaffray and his Friends say ; They affirm the Scriptures to be an RULE , an Infallible RULE , and an Infallible RULE of Faith and Life , in which they are very orthodox , and I must in Charity believe that in so farr are our Modern Quakers Reformed , and very justly laid aside their former Doctrine . Which is yet more plainly and explicitly delivered by William Penn in his Appendix to the Christian Quaker , for after endeavouring to prove that the Scriptures were never the General RULE , he at last by way of Objection says . But is not the Scripture the RULE of our Day , he answers if the RULE , then the general RULE for whatsoever is the RULE of Faith and Life excludeth all other from being general , they being but particular in respect of it self , therefore not the RULE of Faith and Life , but besides , their not being general , I have several Reasons to o●ter , and he brings no less then nine or ten Reasons , why they cannot be the Rule of Faith and Life . See George Keith's Book called the Deism of William Penn , &c. Wherein there is a full examination and confutation of William Penns Discourse of the General RULE of Faith and Practice , and Judge of Contraversie , Printed Anno 1699. Observe also , what is said in one of their Books , called the Quakers Refuge , p. 17. Whether the first Penman of the Scriptures , was Moses or Hermes , or whether both these are one ? or whether there are not many Words , contained in the Scriptures , which were not spoken by INSPIRATION of the Holy Spirit . And in a Book , called Truths Defence , by G. F. and R. H. p. 2d . You may as well Condemn the Scriptures , to the Fire as our Queries . Q. 2. Whether the Light within , be sufficient of it self , to Salvation , without any thing else ? A. Unto such , as are under a moral impossibility , of coming to the knowledge of the Incarnation , Life , Miracles , Crucifiction , Death , Resurrection and Ascension of our Lord JESUS ' CHRIST , the Light wherewith he inlighteneth every Man , coming into the World , is sufficient to Salvation , Ioh. 1. 9. Tit. 2. 11. But where the outward knowledge of the Scriptures is attainable , or the outward History of our Saviour , it is altogether damnable not to believe the same . R. This Answer to the second Querie , is in my opinion no Answer at all , but a down right shifting the Question , which hath no respect to such , as are under a moral impossibility , of knowing the Life , Death , Miracles , &c. of our Blessed Lord JESUS CHRIST , but to such , as have the means of knowing them , and tho to such it be certainly Damnable , not to believe them , yet that tells us not , whither the Light within , be of its self sufficient to Salvation , without any thing else yea or not , and therefore , I must again intreat , that they may be pleased , Candidly , and sincerely , to give a plain and direct Answer to the Querie ? and this I have the more reason to demand , because Robert Barclay of Urie , at the first giving in of their Answers , being ●ressed to declare , whether to such as have the means of knowing the Life , Death , Miracles , &c. of the Holy JESUS , the Light within , was of it self sufficient to Salvation ? He answered negatively that it was not , and carried away the Answers to have that insert , as thier Answer to the Querie , which after all was not done . From whence it appears , that either they are not agreed amongst themselves , about the resolution of this Querie , and so shift the Answering it : Or else , that they are afraid to own the Truth plainly , least thereby they contradict their Antient Friends . And particularly George Whitehood , who plainly asserts in his Antidote , p. 28. That the Quakers are offended with G. K. for saying , the Light within is not sufficient to Salvation without something else . The which Proposition , seing he blames as false , he must hold the Contradictory to be true , that the light within is sufficient to Salvation without any thing else . Yea G. W. hath granted in his Antidote , p. 28. that CHRIST as outwardly Considered , is that something else which G. K. means . And W. P. in his appendix to the Christian Quakers , plainly affirms , that the belief of the History of CHRIST's Birth , Death , &c. is none of the absolute necessaries to our Salvation . And in his Quakerism a new Nickname , &c. He saveth , That Faith in the History of CHRIST's outward manifestation , is a deadly poyson , these latter Ages has been infected with : and he sayes also in his Rejoynder to I. Fa●do , that CHRIST in the Gentiles , is a greater mistery , then CHRIST as he was made manifest in the Flesh , it is strange , that should be counted most misterious , which was the introduction to the mistery , and these transactions , counted most difficult , that were by the Divine Wisdom of GOD , ordained as so many facil representations , of what was to be accomplished in Man , it is to le●en . if not totally exclude the true mistery of Godliness , which is CHRIST manifested in his Children , their hope of Glory . Like to this , is his saying in his Preface to the Collection of Robert Barclays Book ' s. O Reader , ( sayeth he ) great is the mistery of Godliness , and if the Apostle said it of the manifestation , of the Son of GOD in the Flesh . if that be a mistery ( and if a mistery , it is not to be spelled out , but by the revelation of the Spirit ) how much more , is the work of Regeneration a mistery , that is wholly inward and spiritual . Q. 3. Whether the Holy Three , the FATHER , SON , and HOLY GHOST , that bear record in Heaven , be not threedistinct Persons of one Substance , Power , Glory and Eternity ? Or are they only three manifestations , or operations , and is there not some Incommunicable , as well as Communicable Attributes , belonging to the Persons of the Holy Trinity ? A. We believe according to the Scriptures , that there are three , that bare record in Heaven , the FATHER , the WORLD , and the HOLY GHOST , and these three are One , 1 Joh. 5. 7. And we do not find our selves obliged , to express our selves , in other terms than the Wisdom of GOD , saw meet to express that great mistery in the Holy Scriptures : But we do believe , that there are incommunicable , as well , as communicable Attributes , in the said Holy three as is witnessed , Joh. 1. 14. And the Word was made Flesh , and dwelt among us , which cannot be said of the other two . R. In this Answer to the third Querie , it is said , there are incommunicable , as well , as communicable Attributes , in the Holy three &c. And yet G. Whitehead , sayeth in his Truth defending the Quakers . We deny the Popish terms of three distinct Persons , which you call GOD the FATHER , GOD the SON , and GOD the HOLY GHOST , which tends to the dividing GOD and to the making three GOD's , and do not you Priests , in your Divinity , as you call it , affirm that a Person is a Single , Rational , Compleat Substance , and differing from another , by an INCOMMUNICABLE PROPERTY ; and art thou so blind , as to think , that there is such a difference in the God head , seing CHRIST is equal with his FATHER , who is a SPIRIT , then what INCOMMUNICABLE PROPERTY , can he differ in from the FATHER , that is not COMMUNICABLE to the one as well as the other ? And Geo Fox ( one of the greatest account among them ) in his disputing against C. Wade , for saying , that GOD the FATHER never took upon him , Human Nature , which ( sayeth he ) in his great mistery is contrary to the Scripture . This was the Error of the Old Hereticks , called Patripassians , who held that GOD the FATHER was born of the Virgin , suffered , dyed , &c. Q. 4. Is not the promised Seed of the Woman , that should bruise the Serpents Head , Gen. 3. 15. The Man CHRIST JESUS , that was born of the Virgin at Bethlehem , in the Land of Iudea . A. We Answer affirmatively , it is he and he alone , we never in the least doubted it , what ever malice may suggest without the least ground . R. This Answer may be compared , with what W. P. sayes in express words in his Christian Quaker , p. 97 98. One outward thing ( saithhe ) cannot be the propper figure of another , nor is it the way of Holy Scripture , so to teach , the outward Lamb shews forth the inward Lamb. The SEED of the promise , is an Holy and Spiritual Principle , of Light , Life and Power , that being received into the Heart , briuses the Serpents head , and because the Seed , which cannot be the Body , ( viz. that was outwardly born of the Virgin ) is CHRIST , as testify the Scriptures , the Seed is one , that Seed CHRIST , and CHRIST GOD over all blessed for ever . The Reader may see , that it s not malice , but that there is too much ground , to suggest the Quakers unsoundness as to the foresaid Querie . Q 5. That seed of Abraham to which the Promise was made , that in him all the Nations of the Earth shall be blessed , according to Gen. 22. 18. Gal. 3. 16 Was it not the Man CHRIST JESUS who according to the Flesh , was the Son of Abraham , and the Son of David , Matt. 1. 1. A. We Answer affirmatively , yea it was he and none else . R. With this Orthodox Answer , the Reader may compare what G. W. sayes , in his Truth defending the Quakers , it is Queried thus , did Richard Hubberthorn will , in writing that CHRISTS coming in the Flesh , was but a Figure , G. W. Answers , could CHRIST have been said to have been transfigured , if his coming in the Flesh , had not been a Figure . And in his Christian Quaker , he positively denyes that CHRIST Consisted of visible Flesh and Bones . It is ( saith he ) both unscriptural , and assurd , to assert that JESUS CHRIST consisteth of a Human Body , of Flesh and Bones , ( how then can he be properly the Seed of Abraham , and the Son of David I distinguish ( sayeth G. W. ) between considing , and having . ( CHRIST had visible Flesh and Bones , but he did not consist of them , as a Man hath a Coat or a Garment , but he doth not consist of it . ) Q. 6 Had not this Man , a real Soul , that was not the Godhead , and a real Body also , that was not the God-head ? A. We answer affirmatively , yea he had both . R. This Answer may be compared with what G. W. sayes , in his Appendix to the Divinity of CHRIST aganist T. D. as to T. Ds telling us of the Son of GODs incarnation , the creation of his Body , and Soul , the parts of that Nature he subsisted in , ( note , that Nature , plainly denotes CHRIST's Manhood Nature , that T. D. meant , which had a created Body and Soul ) to this I say , ( sayes G. W. if the Body and Soul of the Son of God , were both created ? doth not this render him a fourth Person , again where do the Scripture say , that the Soul was created ? Q 7 Is not that outward Man who was born of the Virgin , and suffered without the Gates of Jerusalem , properly and truly the SON of GOD , having no immediat FATHER but GOD. A. We Answer affirmatively , and fully believe he is so . R. This Answer to the seventh Querie , being in all appearance sound and orthodox , and agreeable to the sense of all sound Protestants , ( if they have no secret reserved meaning in this and their other orthodox Answers ) wherein they dissent , from the unsound Doctrine of some of their chief Teachers , and therefore the Reader may be pleased , to compare this their Answer , with what W. P. saves , in his serious Apologie : page 146. viz. But that the outward Person that suffered , without the gates of Jerusalem , was properly the SON of GOD we utterly deny . ( Is not this a plain contradiction to what A. J. &c asserts And also W. P. in his Rejoinder , pag 304 305 Say's that outward Person that suffered at Jerusalem was CHRIST by a M●tonomy , of the thing containing , having the name of the thing contained . Q. 8. Is not JESUS CHRIST , both GOD and Man , and yet but one CHRIST , so that his Godhead is not his Manhood , though the Nature of his Manhood , is most highly , and wonderfully united to his Godhead ? A. We Answer affirmatively , and fully believe the same . R This Answer to the eight Querie , the Reader may compare it , with what one of their Antient Teachers , Christopher Atkinson sayes , in his Book called the Sword of the Lord drawn pag. 5. Your imagined GOD , beyond the Stars , and your carnal CHRIST , is utterly denyed . To say this CHRIST , is GOD and Man in one Person , is a Lie , and G. W. sayes in his Book , called the Life and Light &c. pag. 39. As for those expressions , GOD Man , being born of MARIE , we do not find them in the Scriptures , nor do we read , that MARIE was the Mother of GOD , but in the Popes Canons , Articles , &c. And what nonsense , ( saith he page 47. ibidem . ) and unscripture Language , is this , to tell of GOD being co-created with the Father , or that GOD hath Glory with GOD , doth not this imply two GODS ? and that GOD had a Father ? let the Reader judge ? and ( page 24. ) To tell of the Word GOD , cocreator with the Father , is all one as to tell of GOD , being cocreator with GOD , if the Father be GOD , and this is to make two GODS , two Creators , &c. And thus G. W. opposes the Godhead of CHRIST , as he doth his Manhood in other Quotations , he also denyes , the Glorious Hipostatical Union , that it consists of a Human and Divine Nature , or that they are hipostatically one . See his Christian Quaker , page . 141. And their Book called , A Testimony for the true CHRIST , pag. 8. Whereof G. W. is supposed to be the Author , they deny the Humanity of CHRIST , as Humanity signifies the Earthly Nature of Mans Body , as coming from Humus the ground ; but as Humanity signifies Meekness , Gentleness , Mercifulness , as opposite to Cruelty , in this last Sense , they own CHRIST's Humanity , but deny it in the former , which is the true Sense of Scripture , and of all true Christians . And , as they deny the Humanity of CHRIST , so they deny Divine Worship and Honour to be given to him , and consequently denyes his Divinity , as William Shewen a noted Writer among them , expresly sayes , in his Book called a small Treatise concerning evil thoughts , p. 37. Not to JESUS the Son of Abraham , David , and Mary , Saint or Angel , but to GOD the FATHER , all Worship , Honour , and Glory is to be given . Q. 9. Did CHRIST's Natural Body , which was Crucified and was Buried , rise again ? And did that Body after his Resurrection , ascend into Heaven ? And is that Body now in Heaven ? A. We believe , that CHRIST's Body , which was Crucified and was Buried , did rise again ; and did after his Resurrection ( being wonderfully glorified ) ascend to Heaven , and is now at the Right Hand of the Majesty on high , Heb. 1. 3. R. This Answer , if they have no secret reserved meaning in it , in all appearance seems Orthodox , and agreeable to the Sense of all sound Protestants . But the Reader may Compare it , with what G. W. sayes , in his Nature of Christianity ; pag. 41. What Scripture proof ( saith he after his socratical way of writing ) is there that CHRIST subsisteth outwardly , Bodily without us , at GOD's Right Hand ? and where is GOD's Right Hand ? is it visible or invisible ? within us or without us onely ? And is CHRIST a SAVIOUR , as an outward Bodily existence , or PERSON without Us , distinct from GOD , and on that Consideration , to be Worshipped as GOD , yea or nay ? But John Whitehead a very eminent and ancient Preacher among them , is more explicit , in his Postscript to a Book called the Quakers Refuge , p. 90. I have several times saith he denyed , that CHRIST hath now a Body of Flesh and Bone , Circumscript or limited in that Heaven which is above , and out of every Man on Earth ▪ And G. W. in his Light and Life , pag. 38. is very plain , where he expresly saith , the Quakers see no need , of directing men to the type for the Antitype , viz. Neither to the Outward Temple , nor yet to Jerusalem , either to JESUS CHRIST or his Blood , knowing that neither the Righteousness of Faith doth so direct , Rom. 10. Q. 10 Is that Heaven , into which CHRIST hath ascended , in the true Glorified Nature of Man consisting of Soul and Body ) without us , or within us only ? And do you own the Man CHRIST JESUS to be without you , as well as His spirit and Light within you ? A We firmly believe that , that Heaven , unto which CHRIST hath ascended in the 〈◊〉 Glori●●ed Nature of Man 〈…〉 of Soul and Body , is without i● : and u● do own the Man CHRIST JESUS to be without us , as well as His Spirit and Light within us : Rom 8 34. Heb. 8. 1. R. This Answer may be compared with what G. F. says in his great mistery p. 214. There is none have a glory and a Heaven but within them . Now , if there be no glory nor Heaven without us ? Then how can CHRIST be ascended into a Heaven without us ? And W. P. redicules the locality of both Heaven and Hell , and sayes in his Rejoinder , p. 179. To deny it , is not very offensive , and that it looks too Carnal , indeed Mahomitan , viz. to assert it W Smith an Antient and Eminent writter among them , in his Catechism , p. 57. has this Question , And is that which is within you , the only foundation , upon which you stand , and the principle of your Religion ; answer , that of GOD within us , is so ; for we know it is CHRIST , and being CHRIST it must needs be ONELY and PRINCIPAL , for that which is ONELY admits not of another , and that which is principal , is greatest in being , and thus we know , CHRIST in us to be unto us the ONELY and the PRINCIPAL . Q But do ye hold that this foundation and principle within you is sufficient to eternal Life ? A. Yes we do so ▪ And G. F. in his great mistery p. 248 says to C. Wade , The Devil was in thee , and thou sayeth , thou art saved by CHRIST without thee : And G W , sayes in truth defending the Quakers p. 65 , That Faith in CHRIST without men , is contray to the Apolles Doctrine . Is this to own the Man CHRIST JESUS to be without us , as A. J &c , asserts they do in their answer . Q. 11. Are we Justified and Cleansed from Sin , by the Blood of CHRIST that was outwardly shed ? And are we sanctified by that Blood meritoriously , as by His Spirit , Grace and Light in us , efficiently ? A. We answer affirmatively . R. With this affirmative answer may be compared R. Bs 7 proposition in his a pology p of his works 264 , As many ( sayeth he ) as resit not this Light viz. the Light within , but reserve the same , it becomes in them a Holy , Pure and Spiritua 〈◊〉 bringing so the Holiness , Righto●sness 〈◊〉 and all those 〈…〉 fruits which are acceptable to GOD , by which Holy Birth , viz , JESUS CHRIST formed within us , and working His works in us , as we are Sanctified , so 〈…〉 in the ●ight of GOD according to 1 Cor. 6. 11. Here Justification and Sanctification are intirely 〈◊〉 to CHRIST the Light within , and there is not one word of the outward CHRIST , or his outward Blood outwardly shed . Let the Reader also consider what he delivers as his 3 position in p. 370 viz That since good works as naturally flow from this Birth , as heat from Fire , therefore are they of absolut necessity to Justification , as Causa sine qua non , i. e. tho not as the Cause for which , yet as that in which we are and without which we cannot be Justified . But G. W. is a litle more distinct in his 2d part of the Christian Quaker p. 126. ( where he sayeth ) But what proof hath he from Scripture that the sheding of CHRIST'S Blood was the meritorious Cause of Justification ? so through that whole 3d chap. he labours to prove that properly speaking it is by the Spirit and Light , or CHRIST within , we are Justified . And in his Antidote p. 39 He affirms , that the blood of his , viz. ( CHRISTS outward blood ) as well as the water that came out of his side , had an allegorical and mysterious signification as well as an outward and literal , even of the Spiritual blood and water of Life , which being compared , with what he says in his Light and Life p. 59 , in which he plainly denys that the material blood of the Sacrifice , was a type of the material Blood of CHRIST , for that were to say ( sayeth he ) that material Blood was a type of that which was material , this is to give the substance no pre-eminence above the type . So that tho ( as G. K. observes in his 3 Narrative p. 73 ) G. W. &c. grant , that a man called CHRIST , was outwardly born , dyed , had his blood shed &c , yet all this was an allegory , and had an allegorical signification , of CHRIST truly and really ( without an allegory ) born within them , crucified and dead within them , his blood shed within them , buried , risen , ascended within them , atonement , reconciliation &c. within them : And seeing they deny the merit and efficacy of CHRIST'S death , and blood without , and of what he did and suffered without us , they are justly charged to allegorize it away , that is , to make no other account of it , then of the History of Hagar and Sarah , and other types , Symbols , and allegories of the Old Testament . W. P. is yet more express speaking of our Justification by the Righteousness which CHRIST hath fulfilled in his own Person for us , he says in his serious Appology p. 148 , And indeed this we deny and boldly affirm it , in the Name of the LORD to be the Doctrine of Devils , and an Arm of the Sea of Corruption , which does now deluge the whole World. I could quote many more Passages , but I refer to these following , G. Ws. Light and Life , p. 38. 40. &c. W. Batlies Coll. p. 22 , 23. 577. Q. 12. Is it altogether , and wholy , as necessary for us to believe in CHRIST without us , for our Eternal Salvation , as to believe in his Spiritual Light within us ? and is not the Faith in the Man CHRIST , as he dyed for our Sins , and rose again , and is at the Right Hand of GOD , and maketh intercession for us , according to Rom. 8. 34. necessary to be Preached frequently , as well as his inward appearance , by every true Minister of CHRIST ? A. We believe , ( as in our Answser to the second Query ) that it s altogether necessary , for us to believe in CHRIST without us , for our Eternal Salvation , where the means of the knowledge thereof can be had : And also that the Faith in the Man CHRIST JESUS , as he dyed for our Sins , and rose again , and is at the Right Hand of GOD , &c. is necessary to be Preached by all true Ministers , as they are led thereunto by the Spirit of GOD , and which is frequently practised amongst us , as may be witnessed by such as come to our Meetings , according to , 1 Cor. 1. 23. R. The Limitation in this Answer is useless , for I speak only of such as have the means , and as to our Faith in CHRIST without us , R. Bs. sayeth in pag. 9. of his works and whereas thou sayest , you see the Apostles judges the knowledge of CHRIST Crucisied to be that one thing necessary , we deny ( sayes R. B. ) that the knowledge of His being outwardly Crucified is that one thing necessary , for People must know him in them . And as a confirmation of this , in the second Proposition of his Apologie , page 269. ( he sayeth ) Which Revelation of God by the Spirit , whither by outward voices , or appearances , dreams , or inward objective manifestations in the heart , were of old the formal object of their Faith , and remains yet so to be , since the object of the Saints Faith , is the same in all Ages , and in Consequence to this last part , he sayes pag. 279. that which now cometh under debait , is what we have asserted in the last place , viz. that the same continueth to be the object of the Saints Faith to this day , &c. here is not one Word of Faith in CHRIST without us , but on the Contrary , the formal object of the Saints Faith , in all Ages is inward Revelations , and the Light within . G. F. sayes in his great mystery , p. 47. The Light which every one hath that cometh into the World , is sufficient unto Salvation , without the help of any other means or discovery . W. P. sayes , Quakerism , a new Nickname , pag. 12. And since they believe that outward appearance , ( i. e. JESUS at Jerusalem , ) they need not preach what is not to be again . So then by this the Birth , Life and Death , &c. of the Holy JESUS needs not to be Preached , and indeed a great deal of the Bible , is to be laid aside and not Preached , according to this Maxim of W. Ps. and W Bailie , an antient Writer among them sayes , see his Goll . p. 308. and so he taught them to Pray , Our Father , &c. Not to look at his Person , and to pray to him as a Person without them , but bid them pray to the Father . Then by the same Rule , if not pray to Him , we are not to believe in Him , as a Person without us . But the Reader may observe , that however orthodox A. J. &c. seems to be in their Answer , in affirming that Faith in the Man CHRIST JESUS as he dyed , &c. ( where the meanes of the Knowledge thereof can be had &c ) is necessary to be Preached by all true Ministers , yet it is ( with this Proviso , ) as they are led thereunto by the Spirit , which clause seems to destroy that obligation , which immediatly before they had acknowledged , for suppose any or all the Preachers , among the Quakers be indifferent in this matter , and so quite neglect ( as generally they doe ) Preaching the Necessity of Faith in the man CHRIST without us , here is a shift ready , they may plead this for their excuse , and say they are not led thereunto by the Spirit of God. Q 13. Do you Believe that all that were saved in any Age of the World , had their Sins forgiven them , for the Man CHRIST JESUS his sake , and on the account of his most Holy , and perfect obedience unto Death , and that what Light and Grace , all Men ever received from GOD in former Ages , or now receive , or shall her after receive to the Worlds end , it is given to Men , for the Man CHRIST JESUS his sake , by his Purchase and Merits , and Continual Mediation and Intercession ? A. We Answer affirmatively and firmly believe it , Acts 4. 12. R. This Answer the Reader may be pleased to compare with the Quotations in the Remarks on the 10 and 12. Answers . Q. 14 Did not the LORD JESUS CHRIST by his most perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself , which he offered up unto GOD , fully satisfy the Justice of his FATHER , and so pay the Ransom for the sins of Mankind ? Q. 15. Did CHRIST suffer the punishment due for the sins of fallen Man ? and did he make full payment in mans stead , for the debt contracted by sin ? A. To both which last Queries we answer , that we believe that the LORD JESUS CHRIST did freely offer himself an acceptable Sacrifice for the sins of Mankind , and that the FATHER ( of his great mercy ) accepted of that Sacrifice as a sufficient expiation for the sins of the whole World as in these Scriptures , 1 Pet. 1. 19. 1 Pet. 2. 24. 1 Pet. 3. 18. John 10. 14 , 15 , 17 , 18. Verses . R. This Answer to the 14 , and 15. Queries may be compared with the 11th Question in G. Ws. Appendix to the 2d part of the Christian Quaker , p. 242. where it is asked , whether Divine Justice did propperly and strictly require a full payment and punishment upon CHRIST in mans stead , for all the debt contracted and injury done by fallen man ? to which it is answered , No , CHRIST'S sufferings were not of that nature or intent &c. and thereafter he says , p. 244 , and see p 240 , All these Scriptures relating to CHRIST'S sufferings , as Isa . 53 &c. do all intimat GOD'S great kindness and Condescention in CHRIST JESUS , and his humiliation and deep suffering under the weight and burden of sin , and as by the Grace of GOD , he tasted Death for every man , all which fall greatly short , of proving our adversaries charge against him , viz that GOD poured down his Wrath and Revenge on his innocent SON , for satisfaction to Divine justice in mans stead that have done the injury I say all the Sciptures alledged by them , can never prove this &c. Here we have a positive answer , to the Queries , and no shuffling or shifting the matter , as A. J. and his Friends do in their answer And W. P. in his Rejoinder to Io. Faldo p. 284 and 255 , Justifyeth W. Smiths saying CHRIST in us offereth himself a living Sacrifice to GOD for us , by which the Wrath of GOD is appeased to us . And G. W. in his Light and Life p. 44. doth also justify the same , but what he sayeth is too large to be here inserted , and therefore I refer the Reader to the Book it self , and to G. Ks. 3 Nar. p. 24. W. P. in his reason against Railing , p. 9. sayes , That if it is our duty to forgive without a satisfaction received , and that GOD is to forgive us as we forgive others , then is a satisfaction totally excluded . See also his Sandy foundation wherein he expresly argueth against CHRIST's satisfaction , and insists largely on it . I have not the Book at present by me , so cannot quote exactly any passage out of it . But above all , that which I think is most horrible and blasphemous and undervaluing the sufferings of our Blessed LORD . E. B. of great esteem among them sayeth in his works p. 273 printed 1672 , and which his friends reprinted and approved of : the sufferings ( sayeth he ) of the People of GOD called Quakers in this Age , is greater suffering and more unjust then in the dayes of CHRIST , or of the Apostles , what was done to CHRIST or the Apostles , was chiefly done by a Law , and in great part by the due execution of a Law , &c. Q 16. Do the best works , that any are enabled to perform , even by the assistance of the Spirit ; merit pardon of sin and eternal Life ? A We answer negatively , we have no merit , all is of free Grace and mercy through CHRIST Tit. 3. 5. R. This Answer seems to bespeak a humble and self denyed frame of spirit , and I am very glade to find such come from A. I. &c. But I am sure their Friends books are filled with a great deal of self exaltation , and abasing of all others , and too much spiritual pride and boasting of their faithfulness , ( as that by and for which they merited or hoped to attain eternal Life ) may be too much observed in most of their preachings , and as an evidence for what I say , let the Reader consider what Samuel Fisher sayeth in his Rusticus , &c. p 90. that because evil works ( saith he ) are the meritorious cause of our Condemnation , therefore good works are the meritorious cause of our Justification . See also , p. 84. 88. ibid. and see also G. Ws Voice of Wisdom p. 36. Q 17. Shall the Man CHRIST JESUS come again and appear without us to judge the Quick and the Dead ? A. We answer affirmatively , yea , He shall , according to these Scriptures Mat. 25 , 31. Acts 17 , 31. This Answer may be compared with what G. W. says in his Light and Life , p , 41. but three comings ( saith he ) not onely that in the Flesh at Jerusalem , and that in the Spirit , but also another coming in the Flesh yet to be expected , we do not read of , but a 2d coming without sin unto Salvation which in the Apostles days was looked for . And in his CHRIST ascended &c , p. 21. 22. &c. not only denyeth any personal comming of CHRIST yet to be at the end of the World , but denyeth him to have a Personal Existance in Heaven without the Saints and chargeth it to be Anthropomorphism and Muggletonism . See also W. Bailies Coll : p. 29. Q. 18. Is there any Resurrection of the Dead , that all or any of the Deceased Saints wait for ? and doth the same Natural Body , that Dyeth rise again , or is the Resurrection nothing else , but what ye have already or what ye shall have , immediatly after Death ? A. We believe that there shall be a Resurrection both of the Just , and of the Unjust , according to the Scriptures Acts 24 , 15 1 Cor. 15 , 5. also the same Chap. from 35 to 38 verse , and we believe that the Resurrection is not already past nor is that which we shall immediatly enter into after Death . R. By this answer to this 18 Q. A. J. and his friends shift the question intirely , for I know , that verbally they seem to own a Resurrection , but that our Natural Elementary bodies shall rise again they utterly deny and oppose . So G. W. argueth most violently against it in the second part of his Christian Quaker , p. 352. 353. &c. and so doth W. P. in his reasoning against , railing p. 134 , 137. If the thing ( saith he ) can be the same and notwithstanding changed for shame let us never make so much stur against the Doctrin of transubstantiation , for the absurdity of it is rather out down then equalled by this carnal Resurrection . And R. Hubberthorn sayes , Coll. p. 121 these are they that plead for a life in sin , while they are here , and that say that the Saints glorified in Heaven do yet hope for the Resurrection of their Bodies &c. See also , W. P. his Invalidity of I. F. vindication p. 373 &c. Q 19. Whither outward Baptism with Water , and the outward Supper called the LORDS Supper , be not Divine Institutions and Ordinances of our Blessed LORD JESUS CHRIST commanded by Him to be continued and practiced to the end of the World ? A. First , as for Baptism we believe , that as there is one LORD and one Faith , so there is one Baptism Eph. 4 , 5. which is not the puting away the filth of the Flesh , but the answer of a good Conscience before GOD , by the Resurrection of JESUS CHRIST . 1 Pet. 3 , 21. And this Baptism is a pure and Spiritual thing , to wit , the Baptism of the Spirit and Fire , by which we are buried with him , Rom. 6. 4. And puts on CHRIST , Gal : 3 , 27. that being purged and washed from our sins we may walk in newness of Life , being risen with him through the Faith of the Operation of GOD : Collos . 2. 12. Of which the Baptism of John was a figure , whose ministry was to decrease , but CHRIST to increase , Iohn 3. 30. and who said himself , I indeed Baptise you with Water to repentance ; but He that cometh after me is mightier then I , whose shoes I am not worthy to bear , He shall baptise you with the HOLY GHOST and with Fire . Mat. 3. 11. Here are two Baptisms mentioned , whereof certainly Johns was the figure , and CHRISTS the continuing substance , and though Johns was continued or practiced for a season yet Paul that great Apostle who was not a whit inferiour to the chiefest Apostles , 2 Cor. 11. 5. expresly affirms , that outward Baptism was not within his Commission from CHRIST , read 1 Cor. 1. 17. As for the sprinkling of Infants called Baptism we find neither Precept nor Practice of it in all the Scriptures of truth ; and therefore judge it to be a meer humane Tradition . And as for the Outward Supper , we do believe that the communion of the Body and Blood of CHRIST is inward and Spiritual ( as to the substance ) which is the participation of his Flesh and Blood by which the Inward man is daily nourished in the Hearts of those in whom CHRIST dwels ; 1 Cor. 10 chap. 16. 17. verses John 6. 32. 33 35 Of which things the breaking of Bread by CHRIST with his Disciples was a figure which they even used in the Church for a time who had received the substance for the sake of the weak , even as abstaining from things strangled and from blood , the washing on anothers feet , and the anointing the Sick with Oyl , all which are commanded with no less authoriy and solemnity then the former , and the two last of them , as true outward Signs or Simbols of Inward Grace , as the Bread and Wine , yet , seeing they are but the shaddows of better things , they cease in such as have obtained the substance . Acts 15. 20. John 13 , 14 Ja. 5 , 14. Where these forementioned things are commanded or institute . R. It is indeed to be much lamented , that the whole Body of the Quakers every where , is too well agreed as to their disowning and Contempt , of our Blessed SAVIOUR's Institutions , especially Baptism and the LORD's Supper . But A. J. &c. might have given a shorter Answer , for I designed not by these Queries , that either they should prove what they hold , or that I should disprove the same . And therefore for a full Reply , to what either they have here alledged , or what R. B. and others of the Chief English Teachers , among the Quakers have argued against the Continuance and practice of outward Water , Baptism and the LORD's Supper . I refer the Reader to Geo Keith's Book , called the Arguments of the Quakers against Baptism , &c. wherein they are intirely consuted and fully Answered : And which Book I do not know , that the Quakers have so much as pretended to Answer . Q 20 Lastly , if ye be realy sound and sincere in the Faith , of the great fundamental Truths , of the Christian Religion , are ye not then bound in Conscience to manifest the same , and that both by disowning and condemning , by a publick Testimony , all those gross Erroneous and Unchristian passages , which have been and may still more and more be discovered , out of your ancient and chief Friends Printed Books : ( Observe so far only A. J. &c. recited this last Querie , and wholly omitted all the rest . ) And I doe hereby offer to prove the same before any Judicious Indifferent Persons , as it shall please GOD to give me an opportunity , by producing such Palpable Quotations out of the said Books , directly contradicting the plain Testimony of the Holy Scriptures , and contrary to the necessary essential point of Christian Faith and Doctrine , and if ye be clear and Innocent , ( as I said already ) ought ye not likewise to disown all such , for your Christian Brethren , that have opposed , and who doe still continue to oppose any of those precious Truths of the Gospel , which have been universally received by all true and sound Christians . I doe expect your positive and candid Answer , by your plain and simple Affirmation or Negation , to each of these Queries ( by which you may prevent any Suspicion of quibling or equivocating ) to be sent with all Convenience to Aberdeen the 5th day of the 4th Moneth called June 1700. Your Real Welwisher , ROBERT SANDILANDS . A. We are realy sound and sincere in the great , and fundamental Truths of the Christian Religion , and we are ready to manifest the same , but we are not bound in reason to receive the Testimony of an avowed Adversary against our Brethern , and if he have any thing to charge against them , among whom he resides , he wants not opportunity to do it face to face . and we doubt not but they can clear themselves sufficiently This Answer to the above written Queries , was drawn upon the 7th day of the 4th moneth called June 1700 : And signed as follows . Alexander Gelley , Robert Barclay , Iohn Forbes , George Forbes senior , Robert Gordon , William Taylor , Andrew Jaffray , Iohn Robertson , Robert Gerard , Daniel Simson , Iohn Somervaile , William Glenny , James Wallace , Iohn Merser , Robert Keith . Yet at the desire of some of the Magistrats , so many of our Number as are present , have again signed the same with their own hands . Observe . They first gave a Copy of their Answer unsigned , and which they brought to the Publick Mercat place , and Copies thereof given to divers Persons , afterwards they brought their Answers much Corrected , with large Additions , with several names at them , but all write with one hand , and that not being satisfactory , it was returned to them again : At last , they delivered it Signed Authentically , by severals of their own Hands . Andrew Jaffray , Alexander Gelley , William Taylor , Daniel Simson , Robert Keith , Iohn Sommervaile , Robert Gordon , George Forbes Senior , Iohn Merser , Iohn King. R. I should truly rejoice , and be heartily glade to find both , A. J. &c. And all others among the People called Quakers , manifest themselves to be realy sound and sincere , not only in some but in all the fundamental Truths of the Christian Religion ; but whether A. J. and his Friends have evidenced themselves to be such , by their Answers , to the Queries before recited , I leave that to all impartial and judicious Readers to judge . And for a manifest Tryal of the sincerity and soundness of their Faith , in those points wherein they seem orthodox , and that they have no secret reserved meanings , but what is agreeable to the Sense of all sound Protestants , it is here proposed to them , ( and which is reasonably expected ) that they give a publick Testimony in Writing , against those erroneous passages and positions , as they are here set down as before , and quoted out of their approved and antient Friends Books , which plainly contradicts their own orthodox Answers . They are obliged ( I think ) either to own , or else to disown these errors : the latter I hope they will ingeniously doe , as being no Respecter of Persons . For the Truth must be owned and preferred before all things and persons , tho never so near or dear to us . And unless A. J. &c. doe this ; their sincerity will still be suspected , notwithstanding all their great Pretences . As for their saying , we are not bound in Reason to receive the Testimony of an avowed Adversary , against our Brethren ; as I would not be imposed upon in such weighty concerns , so I doe not impose my Testimony upon them , but have fairly and sincerely laid before them , their own antient and most eminent approved Friends Testimonies , both in England and Scotland : And I could have produced many more Quotations , if they had been so candid to have granted me the use of their Friends Books , which I had not by me here , ( and I being a Traveller could not be other wayes provided with ) however , I offer this to them , let the Books be produced , out of which the Quotations are taken , and let them be perused by any judicious and indifferent Persons , and see whither they are justly and fairly quoted , and I shall submit the same to their censure . And whoever it is they mean , to be their Brethrens avowed Adversary : I bless GOD I can sincerely say , that I have no Personal enmity or Prejudice against them , or any Persons whatsomever ; it s true , I detest their vile errors , but I still love and respect their Persons , and what I have herein done may shew , that it was not through Malice , &c. I could also have given an account , of many very Unchristian and unsavoury Passages , which were Preached publickly in their Meetings at Reading in England where I live , which occasioned divers to leave them . And whereas they say , and if he have any thing to Charge against them , among whom he receeds , he wants not opportunity to doe it face to face , and we doubt not but they can clear themselves sufficiently . I should be very glade , as I have said before , they would do so indeed , but I am sure , they have never in the least yet done it , as they ought to doe , notwithstanding of the many opportunitis , and that publickly , to have cleared themselves , of what has been charged against them , and still lyes at their door uncleared and unanswered by them ; and I am fully satisfied , that notwitstanding of their many late new Creeds , they can never well clear themseves , until they publickly , and ingeniously Retract those Errors in their Printed Books ; and when they once do that , I think there is none will be so Unchristian , as to Charge them any more therewith . There is one or two Quotations more , which I think fit to add . G. F. and R. H. sayes in Truths defence , p. 89 , and 109 Our giving forth papers and printed Books , it is from the immediat , eternal Sipiritual GOD. 〈◊〉 . Now I leave it to the serious Consideration , of A. J. 〈◊〉 . and the rest of his Friends , whether in their Consciences they realy believe , that the foresaid Passages quoted out of their Friends Books , were given forth from the Immediat Eternal Spirit of GOD. And G. F. pleads for the same degree of the Spirit , to know the Scriptures by , as the Prophets and Apostles had . See his great Myst . p. 213. &c. FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A62157-e1380 See R. Rs. works pag. 299. pag. 15. near the end Pag 136 pag 137. pag. 158. pag. 6 p. 335 pag. 36. See also His Christi an Quaker pag. 12. pag. 2. pag. 246. pag. 21. pag. 139. 140. pag. 18. See the Quotation at large cited in G. Ks. fourth Narrative p. 70.