The Protestant resolved, or, A discourse shewing the unreasonableness of his turning Roman Catholick for salvation Ellis, Clement, 1630-1700. 1688 Approx. 201 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 42 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2003-09 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A39265 Wing E569 ESTC R6293 12142679 ocm 12142679 54867 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A39265) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 54867) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 761:8) The Protestant resolved, or, A discourse shewing the unreasonableness of his turning Roman Catholick for salvation Ellis, Clement, 1630-1700. Sherlock, William, 1641?-1707. The second edition. [3], 80 p. Printed for William Rogers ..., London : 1688. Includes bibliographical references. Also attributed to William Sherlock. cf. DNB. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Catholic Church -- Controversial literature. Salvation. 2003-06 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2003-07 Rina Kor Sampled and proofread 2003-07 Rina Kor Text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-08 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Imprimatur , Liber cui Titulus , [ The Protestant Resolved , &c. Mar● . 12. 1687. Guil. Needham RR. in Christo P. ac D. D. Wilhelmo Archiep . Cant. a Sacr. Dom. THE Protestant Resolved : OR A DISCOURSE Shewing the UNREASONABLENESS Of his Turning Roman Catholick FOR SALVATION . The Second Edition . LONDON : Printed for William Rogers , at the Sun over-against St. Dunstan's Church in Fleetstreet . MDCLXXXVIII . No Necessity for a Protestant to turn Roman Catholick for Salvation . WE are all I hope thus far argeed , That sincere Christianity is the sure Way to Salvation . That to be saved , we must have the Hearts , and not content our selves with the bare Name and naked Profession of Christians . That the Authority of God and Divine Truth , and no worldly or carnal Concern must sway and govern our whole Conversation . If we be not religious in good earnest , resolving and endeavouring to honour God in Heart and Life , according to the Holy Gospel of our Blessed Iesus , it 's no matter to us what Religion we profess , or to what Church we join our selves . Wickedness and Hypocrisy , through what Church soever our Way lieth , lead assuredly to Hell. A wicked Protestant and a wicked Papist will in Hell be of the same Communion . True Christianity is none other but that which was taught at first by Christ and his Apostles , and all they who believe and live according to their Doctrine shall be saved . Herein again we are all I suppose agreed . And if so , I think it very reasonable we should agree as well in that which I now add . It is not material to enquire whether a Man be of the Church of Rome , or of the Church of England , to find whether or no he may be saved ; but he that would satisfy himself of the possibility of Salvation in the Way wherein he now is , ought to enquire whether he believe and live according to the Doctrine taught by Christ and his Apostles ; seeing they who do this are good Christians , what other Names soever Men may bestow upon them , and all that are such shall be saved . If therefore I may be able to satisfy my self that I believe , and live according to the Doctrine deliver'd by Christ and his Apostles , I have no reason to doubt of the Possibility of my Salvation in the Way wherein I now am , tho it were so , that I had never heard to this day of any such Thing as a Church headed by a Pope or Bishop of Rome . And I am yet somewhat confident that a Man may believe and live according to the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles , and never hear of a Bishop of Rome ; because once Men certainly did so , and yet were saved . The next thing therefore that I have to do , is to enquire by what Means I may certainly know , what was the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles ; for by the same Means whereby this may be known , I may also know the certain Way to Salvation . If there be no such Means left us , we are all Fools in professing a Religion , the certain Doctrine whereof can by no means be known . If such Means there be , there must be some certain Records safely convey'd down from their Time to ours ; for by what other Means we at this distance of so many hundred years should be certainly inform'd what they taught , is by me unconceivable . These Records then are to be diligently searched into , and impartially examined , and whosoever is found to believe and practise according to the Doctrine in those Records contained , may be concluded to be in the Way to Salvation . Such certain Records we have , even the Books of the holy Evangelists and Apostles , which ( together with the Books of the Old Testament ) we call the Holy Scripture . In this we are all again unamimous , both Papists , and Protestants agree , that the Doctrine in these Books contained is the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles , and Divine Truth . Whence it certainly follows , that whatsoever Doctrine is contrary to the Doctrine contained in these Books , whether it it be taught by Papists or Protestants , is to be rejected as none of the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles . It ought not therefore to satisfy me , that this or that Doctrine is taught by the Church of Rome , or by the Church of England ; for by which of them soever it be taught , if it be found contrary to the Doctrine of the holy Scripture , it is by the Consent of both Churches to be rejected . Now seeing we Protestants take this holy Scripture , and it only , for the Rule of Faith and Life ; it is certain , that holding to this Rule , we do not err either in Belief or Practice : while on the other side we cannot be sure , thot they do not err in both , who receive another Rule ; till it appear that the other Rule which they receive , is as true and certain as ours is acknowledged to be . Our part of the Rule , and that which indeed we take to be the whole , being granted us ; all the Question is about their part of it . Ours is on all hands granted to be most sure and certain , their 's alone remains disputable ; and therefore I cannot yet see any reason , why I should think their Way safer than our own , except it can be safer to follow an uncertain than a certain Rule , which I think no body will be so hardy as to affirm . The Rule which they of the Roman Communion advance against ours , is that of Tradition . I am therefore next to to consider , First , what they understand by it : And , Secondly , what greater reason I can find to perswade me , that it is safer to trust to it , whether singly , or in Conjunction with our own , than to our own alone , which is the holy Scripture . This Tradition consists of such Doctines of Faith and Practice as are supposed to have been taught either by Christ himself , or being dictated by the Holy Ghost to his Apostles , were delivered by them to the Church , not in Writing , but in Word only , and so have successively been handed down from Father to Son , unto the present Age. And these are all according to the Council of Trent to be received with equal affection of Piety and Reverence , as the holy Scripture . Now I confess , if it may appear as evidently to me that Christ or his Apostles left such Doctrines to the Custody of the Church , of equal necessity to the Salvation of Christians , with those that are written in the Scpipture , as it doth that they left us these which are written in the Scripture ; and if I may be well assured , that these very Doctrines which the Church of Rome now holds , and pretends to an Authority of imposing upon all Christendome , are indeed the very same which were at first ( as abovesaid ) deliver'd to the Church , I can see no reason why I should not be bound to believe the one as firmly as the other . For seeing it is the Authority of the first Preachers of it , and not barely the Writings of it , that bind me to believe the Doctrine ; if I can be equally assured , that as well what is unwritten as what is written , was preach'd by them , as necessary to the Salvation of Mankind , I must needs also own an equal Obligation upon me to believe them all alike . But neither of these could I ever see clear'd , nor can I conceive any hope that I shall hereafter . And seeing the proof of both lies wholly upon them , who affirm both ; I cannot be obliged to believe them , till by such proof they have convinced me . In the mean time , it seems enough to me , that God himself was pleas'd to signifie to the World his Will in writing , which I cannot imagine why He should do , had he not intended we should learn his Will from what is written , and not from any unwritten Tradition . And I am the more confirm'd in this Opinion by this , that he did not use this way of revealing his Mind unto Men at the first , nor till after the World had had a very long time to discern by experience the Unfaithfulness of unwritten Tradition . So that this and some other Considerations whereupon the Papists use to ground their Arguments against both the Necessity and Perfection of the Scripture , seem to me very fully to evince both the one and the other ; and so to leave no room at all for their unwritten Traditions as any part of the Rule of Faith and Life . Yet , seeing they , who are always preaching this Doctrine to us , That there is no Salvation for them that are not of their Communion , preach it not as a private Opinion of their own , or of some few others in that Communion ; but as the generally received Doctrine of that Church , which pretends to be no less than Infallible ; it concerns me so much the more to use all possible diligence , to find out what Truth there may be in this Assertion . And that , not only because I shall thereby discern the necessity of changing my Religion to make sure of my own future Happiness ; but also , because the Determination of this one Point will at once put an end ( as it seems to me ) to all the Disputes that are now between the Papists and Us. If I can find it true , that no Man can be saved out of that Communion , I shall be a Fool to trouble my self with the Study of the Scriptures , and seeking out for my self in them a Way to Heaven ; when I may be sure , by stepping over the Threshold out of the one Church into the other , to meet with an Infallible Iudg , whom if I do but follow , I cannot go amiss . And to dispute any longer with my self , whether I should do so or not , would but shew me fitter for Bedlam than for any Church ; seeing none but the maddest Man alive would dispute for Damnation . On the other side , if I shall find it false , that a Man cannot be saved out of that Communion , I must needs be convinced that the Roman Church , which hath determined it for a certain Truth , hath already err'd both in Faith and Charity , and that having erred , she is not Infallible : and being not Infallible , by her own Confession cannot be that One , Holy , Catholick and Apostolick Church , out of which there is no Salvation . So that as this Assertion of that Church shall be found to be , true or false ; even so will the Popish Religion appear also to be . But here I meet with a very great Difficulty in my way , as I am going to seek out the Truth or Falshood of this Assertion ; that however I may be able to satisfy my self , yet I shall never ( for ought I can see ) be able to satisfy them who are the Authors of it , any other way , than by a total Submission of my own Iudgment and Conscience too to their Determination , and a blind Obedience to their Will. The Dispute ( as is evident ) is between two Churches , the one whereof challengeth to it self the big-swoln Prerogative of being the Lady and Mother of all Churches ; a Sovereign Authority of prescribing to the Faith of all Christians ; the Right and incommunicable Priviledg of being the Sole and Infallible Iudg of all Controversies in Religion ; finally , an unquestionable Power of defining and declaring to all the World the true and only Terms of Salvation . Now , that this Roman-Mother and Mistress-Church , sole Commandress and Infallible Iudg , having already in the fulness of Power determin'd it , and by her Supreme Authority imposed an Oath upon her Subjects to maintain it , That none out of her Communion can be saved , should after all this , in pure Condescension to Men declared Hereticks , divest her self of her Authority , lay aside her Infallible Definitions , come down from the Tribunal and the Throne of Iudicature and Majesty , and stand at the Bar submitting her self and the whole Cause to an indifferent and equal Trial , is a thing as little to be hoped for , as it is yet unagreed upon by what Law , Iury or Iudg the Controversy should be decided . And truly on the other side , it seems to me altogether as unreasonable in her to accept , That we Protestants of the Church of England , tho we pretend to nothing of this Exorbitant Power over Her or other Churches , or of determining Disputes for all the World , should yet , upon a naked Summons from Her , whose Authority we question , and see no reason to acknowledg , forthwith subscribe to the Sentence of our own Condemnation , without any fair and legal Process , or indeed so much as yield to a Trial , where our professed Adversaries must be at once the Law-makers , Accusers , Witnesses ; and yet this is most notoriously our Case . What course now in this Case can be taken by us ? The Church of Rome tells us expresly and peremptorily , We cannot be saved out of her Communion . Must we believe her without any more ado ? That 's indeed the way to make a short end of all our Differences , for then we must yield to be Her 's , or else run headlong to Damnation : But if we believe her not ( as for my part I know not how we can do , till we see some reason why we should do so ) the Dispute ( for ought I can see ) is like to be endless . For no such reasons can , or ought she to give us , if she will be constant to her self , and stand to her own Principles , ( as will plainly appear anon ) and if she desert her own Principles , she must yield her self to be fallible , and not the true Church ; and then in vain is all talk of Reasons , why they that are not of her Communion should be damned . However , suppose it be pretended ( as indeed it is ) that we have had sufficient Reasons given us , why we ought to believe her in this Point . This then is the present Question between us , Whether she hath given us sufficient reason for this , or no. She confidently affirms it , We as confidently deny it . She calls us obstinate Hereticks for denying it , and lays many a heavy Curse upon us : We for this think her a very unreasonable and imperious Mistress , usurping an Authority over us , which God never gave her . Who I wonder shall now be thought fit to decide this Dispute ? She will be tried and judg'd by no other but her self ; for She is resolv'd to be Sole and Infallible Iudg in all Controversies of Religion : That is in plain terms , She will accuse us , and she will leave us no room for our own Defence ; She will condemn us , and she will not permit us to question the Iustice of her Sentence . She tells us , we are bound to believe her , and obey her , or else we must die eternally for it . We desire some reason may be brought to convince us of this Duty : and she tells us again , she is our Supreme and Infallible Mistress , and Mother , and Iudg ; and so the Conclusion is , We must believe she hath this Supreme Authority and Infallibility , because she is Supreme and Infallible ; which we can yet see no reason to believe , and therefore cannot believe ; and because we cannot believe it , we are declared to be Hereticks , and in a State of Damnation . Seeing then , that the Church of Rome will by no means recede from her Claim to this Supremacy and Infallibility ; it seems plain to me , that there is no possibility of satisfying her any way whatsoever but by yielding my self up intirely to her without any farther dispute . But because I cannot do this , without violence to my Conscience , and incurring that very Damnation , which she would persuade me thereby to prevent ; I must of necessity leave her a while to satisfy her self about the Truth and Charity of this Doctrine as she can ; whilst I for my own private Satisfaction take into a very serious Consideration these two things . I. Whether I can discern any solid ground to hope , that I may be saved , as I am now a Protestant of the Church of England . II. What more hopeful way to Salvation the Church of Rome can me put into , should I enter into her Communion . If the result of this double Enquiry shall be , that I really think my self in a fair way to Salvation where I am already , and cannot discern any more hopeful way to it in the Church of Rome ; I must needs accout my self bound in Conscience , and under the Penalty of Damnation , to steer my course according to the best Light I shall be able , by such a diligent and impartial Inquiry , to attain unto , and content my self with that Religion , which seems best and safest to me , till some better and safer can be found . SECT . I. The first thing I am to inquire into , is , What good ground of hope I can discern that I may be saved as I am a Protestant . And here the first thing I am to consider is , what I mean by the Name of Protestant , as it is own'd by the Members of the Church of England , and as I can heartily answer to it . By a Protestant I understand no other but a Christian , adhering firmly both in Faith and Practice to the written Word of God , and protesting against both the Faith and Practice of the Papists , and all others whatsoever , so far only , as they are either repugnant to the Holy Scripture in any thing , or ungrounded on the same in things pretended by them necessary to Salvation . Such Protestants do we of the Church of England profess our selves to be , as is apparent unto all , from the 6 th of our XXXIX Articles , affirming , That the Scriptures contain all things necessary to Salvation ; so that whatsoever is not read therein , nor may be proved thereby , is not to be required of any Man , that it should be believed as an Article of Faith , or be thought requisite or necessary to Salvation . This is our very first Principle , as we are called Protestants , and such an one I do heartily profess my self ; neither see I yet the least cause to doubt of my Salvation , whilst by the Grace of God I live answerably to this Profession . For that the Protestant Religion built upon this Principle is a safe Religion , is I think altogether as plain , as that Christianity it self , pure and unmix'd , is the Way to Salvation ; because 't is plain , that this Religion we profess , holding to this Principle , can be nothing else but pure and unmix'd Christianity , being that , and no other , which is contained in the Holy Scripture . Is then the holy Scripture the Word of God or not ? Was it given unto us of God to be the Rule of our Religion , that is , of our Faith , Worship , and holy Conversation , or was it not ? If * Bellarmine may be credited , this is the Declaration of the Catholick Church , both in the third Council of Carthage , and also in that of Trent . The Books of the Prophets and Apostles are the true Word of God , and the sure and stable Rule of Life . And as he shortly after adds , The most sure and safest Rule . Now , whether it be the compleat , perfect and adequate Rule , as we constantly affirm ; or only a partial Rule , or but some part of it , as the Papists contend ; it self , when diligently consulted , will be best able to inform us . For it is on all hands granted to be the Word of God , which cannot lie ; and therefore unquestionably true in all things what soever it teacheth us ; and of those many excellent things which it very plainly teacheth , its one Perfection and Sufficiency is one , and for my present Satisfaction very considerable . I find in the first place , that God himself writ the Ten Commandments , the compleat Rule of Piety and Iustice , with his own Finger , Exod. 31. 1 , 18. Deut. 9. 10. & 10. 2 , 4. That he commanded them to be written on the Posts and Gates , Deut. 6. 9. & 11. 20. That Moses wrote all the Words of the Lord , Exod. 24. 4. and deliver'd the Writing to the Priests to be read unto the People , Deut. 31. 9. And that the King was to have by him a Copy of it for his Direction , Deut. 17. 18. I find many Curses denounced against the Breakers of it , Deut. 28. 58. and Blessings promised to them that keep it , Deut. 30. 10. I find it was expresly forbidden to add unto it , or to aiminish from it , Deut. 4. 2 , 12 , 32. To turn from it to the right-hand or to the left , Josh. 1. 7. And that the good Kings were careful to order all things according to it , and to reform what had been amiss by it , 1 Chron. 16. 40. 2 Kings 22. 13. And therefore I do not wonder to hear the Psalmist , saying , The Law of the Lord is perfect , converting the Soul , Psal. 19. 7. nor to find Isaiah sending Men to the Law , and to the Testimony , saying , If any speak not according to this Word , it is because there is no Light in them , Isa. 8. 20. Again , I find our Blessed Saviour himself , and his Apostles after him , very frequently appealing and referring their Hearers to that which had been written in the Books of Moses , in the Psalms , and in the Prophets . They have Moses and the Prophets , let them hear them , saith Abraham in the Parable , Luk. 16. 29. Search the Scriptures ( saith Christ , Joh. 5. 39. ) for in them ye think ye have Eternal Life , and they are they which testify of me . I find that St. Luke , writing his Gospel , gives his Theophilus this good reason for it ; That thou mightst know the certainty of those things wherein thou hast been instructed , Luk. 1. 4. The things which are most surely believed among us , v. 1. all things of which himself had perfect understanding from the very first , v. 3. I find St. Iohn , who wrote last of all the Apostles , affirming , that tho Iesus did many other Signs , which are not written in that Book of his , yet these are written , that we may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God , and that believing we might have Life through his Name , Joh. 20. 30 , 31. And finally I find St. Paul asserting the Perfection of the Holy Scripture as fully and plainly as any Man can speak , 2 Tim. 3. 15 , 16 , 17. saying , That the Holy Scripture is able to make a Man wise unto Salvation through Faith which is in Christ Iesus . That all Scripture is given by Inspiration of God , and is profitable for Doctrine , for Reproof , for Correction , for Instruction in Righteousness , that the Man of God may be perfect , throughly furnished unto all good Works . Now what more can we desire , than to be made wise unto Salvation ? And we are here plainly told , that the holy Scripture is able to make us so . What more can be needful to direct us in the Way to Salvation , than what we may learn from the Scriptare ? It is profitable for our Information and Establishment in the Truth , for the Confutation of Error and Heresy , for the Correction of Vice and Wickedness , for our Instruction in Righteousness . It is so profitable for all these purposes , that thereby the Man of God , the Pastor and Teacher may be made compleat , and well furnish'd for all the branches of his Office , all the works of his holy Calling . In short , it is able to bring us to Faith in Christ Iesus ; And whosoever believeth in him , shall not perish , but have everlasting Life ; Joh. 3. 16. Furthermore ; from the same Scripture I also learn , that Unwritten or Oral Tradition hath ever been found too deceitful a thing to be relied on for so great a matter as Salvation . I find that before the Flood , notwithstanding the long Lives of Men , the few Principles of Natural Religion , and the easiness of learning and remembring things so agreeable to humane Nature , yet all Flesh had soon corrupted his Way upon the Earth , Gen. 6. 12. and every Imagination of the Thoughts of Man's Heart was only evil continually , v. 5. And after the Flood , the whole World was quickly over-run with Idolatry : So ill was the Doctrine which had been preach'd by Noah and his Sons , preserved by Oral Tradition . Nay , I find , that after God was pleas'd to give the Iews his Will in Writing , their Teachers had so corrupted the Doctrine of God with their Traditions , that it was a great part of our blessed Saviour's business , to rescue it from those Traditional Corruptions . He reproves the Scribes and Pharisees for transgressing the Commandments of God by their Traditions , Mat. 15. 3. shewing them how they had made it of none effect by the same , v. 6. And that in vain they worshipp'd God , teachiag for Doctrines the Commandments of Men , v. 9. And St. Paul warns the Colossians to beware of being deceived through Philosophy and vain Deceit , after the Tradition of Men , after the Rudiments of the World , and not after Christ , Col. 2. 6. And the special occasion of writing most of the Epistles , yea and the Gospels too , seems to be the Danger that Christians were in of being seduced by false Teachers , from the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles , under the pretence of Tradition . Such were the Wolves in Sheeps cloathing , Mat. 7. 15 False Apostles , deceitful Workers , transforming themselves into the Apostles of Christ , 2 Cor. 11. 13. Pretending to another Gospel , Gal. 3. 6. Men of Sleight and cunning Craftiness , lying in wait to deceive , Eph. 4. 14. From what I find in the Scripture , I must needs conclude , till I be better inform'd , that it is a sufficient Rule for us to go by ; and that , so long as we hold us to it alone , in our Faith and Practice , there can be no necessity of resorting to the Church of Rome , for that unto which our Bibles at home can direct us . The Scripture is the Word of God , and sure Rule of Faith , saith the Infallible Church of Rome , if Bellarmine may be believ'd : This holy Scripture is able to make us wise unto Salvation , saith the this Infallible Scripture ; and we take no other but this Holy and Infallible Scripture for the Rule of our Faith and Religious Practice , say we Protestants . What now should hinder me to infer from hence , that if the Scripture be the Word of God , we Protestants are very well as we are ; for we have the Word of the Infallible God , and if it may stand us in any stead , the Word of the Infallible Church ( as she will needs be accounted ) to assure us , that adhering to the holy Scripture , we are in the ready and sure way to Salvation . Farther yet , as I am a Protestant of the Church of England , I do declare in the words of our VIIIth Article , That the three Creeds , Nice Creed , Athanasius Creed , and that which is commonly called the Apostles Creed , ought throughly to be received and believ'd ; for they may be proved by most certain Warrants of Holy Scripture . Seeing then , we receive and throughly believe the same Creeds , and no other , which the Church of Rome her self professeth to believe ; and which were thought by the Catholick Church of Christ , for above 400 Years after the first planting of Christianity , to contain all Points of Faith necessary for the Salvation of Christians ; I think I have hence gather'd this farther Confirmation of my Assurance , that we Protestants are in the direct Way to Salvation ; that we are of the very same Religion , and no other , in all the necessary Points of Christian Faith , whereof the Catholick Church evidently was in the first and purest Ages of it . In the four first General Councils no other Articles of Faith were held needful to be believed by Christians , but those of these Creeds , which we entirely own and believe . Either then it is true , That these three Creeds contain all necessary Points of Christian Faith , or it is not . If it be true , we are safe enough , and can with no colour of Reason be said to err in Faith , or to deserve the Name of Hereticks . If it be not true , then were all those Primitive Christians as much Hereticks as we are , and knew no more , than we do , what belong'd to the Salvation of Christians . And strangely partial is the Church of Rome in approving the Faith of those Councils , which one of their most famous Popes and Saints is said to have reverenced as the four Gospels , and yet to condemn ours , tho in all Points the very same . Especially when the Third of those Councils , held at Ephesus in the Time of Pope Celestine , did expresly decree , That it should not be lawful to utter , write , or compose any other Faith , besides that which had been defined by the Holy Fathers congregated in the Holy Ghost in the City of Nice . Ordering , that all they should be punish'd , who tender'd any other to such as had a desire to be converted to the Knowledg of the Truth , whether they were Gentiles , Jews , or of any other Heresy . Whereby 't is plain , that the Fathers in this third Council did conclude that Creed to comprehend the entire Faith of a Christian , And indeed a Man would think that the Council of Trent had in the Beginning of it been altogether of the same mind , when of the same Creed it thus declared it self ; That it is that Principle wherein all that profess the Faith of Christ do necessarily agree , and the Firm and Onely Foundation against which the Gates of Hell shall not prevail . I may , I think , upon these Considerations , without more ado , be very well satisfied of the Safety of the Protestant Religion . The Papists themselves must grant , That whatsoever we believe or practise , as of necessity to Salvation , really is so ; and therefore , that we do not err either in our Faith or Practice , whilst we live according to our own Principles . For if we err in either , so far do they err also ; and not they only , but all the Christian World. And here we may press them with their own way of Arguing , and to much more purpose , than they are wont to use it against us . When they would convince us that their Religion is the safer , they are wont thus to argue ; That Religion is the safer , wherein , by the Confession of both Sides , a Man may be saved : but both Sides confess , that a Man may be saved in the Popish Religion , and both Sides do not confess that a Man may be saved in the Protestant Religion : therefore the Popish Religion is the safer . Supposing now this way of arguing for the Safety of their Religion from the Confession of both Parties be of any strength , as they must suppose it to be , who so often and confidently use it ; then must the like Argument from the same Medium , be altogether as strong for us . I would only beg of them to grant me this , ( and I hope they will not say my Request is unreasonable ) That that Religion is the safest , all the Doctrines whereof are the truest . If they will not grant me this , they must grant it safer to hold some false Doctrines than all true . But if they think this absurd , then must they give me leave thus to argue ; That Religion is the safest , wherein all Doctrines held or taught , as necessary to Salvation , are , by the Confession of both Sides , certainly true . Now both Sides confess , that all Doctrines , held or taught in the Protestant Religion , are certainly true ; and both Sides do not confess , that all Doctrines held and taught in the Popish Religion are certainly true : therefore the Protestant Religion is the safer . The same Articles of Faith , the same Rules and Precepts of Life , the same Acts of religious Worship , the same holy Sacraments , the same holy Orders of Ministers , which we have ; the very same have they also . But they have many things of all these sorts , which we have not ; no nor any other Christians , but those of their own Communion . And therefore to strengthen my Argument , yet more I say , If that Doctrine and Practice be the safest , wherein all good Christians agree ; we are sure that ours is the safest , because all good Christians do agree in them ; and that theirs is not safe , because all good Christians do not agree in them . Nay let me add this more : Our Religion is either safe and true , in all things pretended by us necessary to Salvation ; or there is no such thing as a safe and true Christian Religion in the World visibly professed ; and if so , it will follow , that Christ hath no true visible Church upon Earth , which I am confident no Papist will say . The Consequence is plain , because all Christians all the World over , that make any Figure of a Church , hold the same both Faith and Practice with us , in what we account necessary to Salvation , the Church of Rome it self not excluded . Tho it be very certain , that we positively and affirmatively hold nothing in Faith or Practice , as necessary to Salvation , but what is held by the Church of Rome her self , and all other Christian Churches ; yet will not the Men of that Church allow us any possibility of being saved , whilst we are Protestants . And he , who of late hath been at some Pains to represent the Papist to us in his fairest Dress , hath labour'd as hard in this Point , as in any other , to shew that his Church is not uncharitable in the Doctrine She delivers concerning our desperate Estate . Now although I am not enquiring , whether this Doctrine be charitable or uncharitable , but only whether it be true or false ; yet , for my better Satisfaction , I will examine all that he saith to this purpose . He tells us , His Church doth nothing herein but what she hath learn'd of Christ and his Apostles . And if he can shew me this , I must needs be fully satisfied , being verily perswaded they never taught any thing uncharitable or untrue . To shew this , he tells us , how Christ , Mark. 16. 16. hath said , He that believeth and is baptised , shall be saved ; but he that believeth not , shall be damned . And this is all his Church delivers in this Point . If this be all She delivers , we cannot call her uncharitable for it , for we our selves willingly subscribe to this Sentence of our Blessed Saviour . Only we think , he did not here teach and authorise the Church of Rome to say , That all who are not of her Faith and Communion , shall be damn'd ; tho she knows they believe all that Christ sent his Apostles to teach them . I do not find in the Roman Ritual , that the Church of Rome in the Baptising either of Infants or adult Persons , uses or requires any other Confession of Faith , but that only of the Apostles Creed , which is the same we use ; and if to beleive and be baptised in this Faith , be enough for the Salvation of Papists , why is it not enough also for Protestants ? And if the Additional Articles of the Trentine Faith , and P. Pius his Creed be necessary to Salvation , why is there no mention made of them in the Roman Order of Baptism ? He adds that of St. Paul , ( 1 Tim. 4. 1 , 2 , 3. ) where foretelling of some who in later times would come and preach a Doctrine , forbidding to marry , and commanding to abstain from Meats , which God hath created to be received ; he brands them with the infamous Title , of Men that depart from the Faith ; giving heed to seducing Spirits , and Doctrines of Devils . And several other Places of Scripture he then produceth , to shew that Hereticks , such as they that affirmed the Resurrection to be past already , or denied that Jesus is the Christ , &c. are in a State of Condemnation . Other Texts of Scripture he brings , wherein Christians are charged to be unanimous , and condemned for causing Strife and Divisions , warn'd to maintain Unity , and not to hearken to false Teachers and Seducers , &c. But I find not by all this , that St. Paul or any of the Apostles , taught the Church of Rome , which both forbids to marry , and commands to abstain from Meats allow'd of God ; which teacheth divers Doctrines , whereof we find not any thing in the Scripture , to condemn those for Hereticks , that adhere wholly to the Doctrine of the Scripture ; or for Schismaticks , who hold Communion with all Christians , so far as they keep to the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles ; and divide from the Church of Rome , no farther , than in those Points only wherein they cannot hold her Communion and the Doctrine of Christ too . I do not see , but after the same rate , as he here defends the Charity of his Church , he might also defend her Iustice , if She should pretend , that because Christ commanded his Disciples to fetch him another Man's Ass and her Colt ; She did but what he taught , in taking away other Mens Goods , and giving no other reason for it but this , that she hath need of them . What the Papists say more , to shew that we can have no Saving Faith , is one of these two things . Either , first , That it is not an entire Faith , there being ( as they say ) many necessary Articles which we believe not : Or , Secondly , That it is no right-grounded Faith , seeing it is not built upon sufficient Authority , that is to say , on the Authority of the Catholick Church . Their first Objection to the Protestant Faith is this , That it is no entire Faith. And here I am told by the Representer , There is no more hopes for one that denies obstinately any one Point of Catholick Faith , tho he believes all the rest ; than there is for one that keeps Nine of the Commandments , with the Breach of the Tenth . Now this seems to me no great Encouragement to change the Communion of the Church of England for that of Rome , if an entire Faith and an entire Obedience be but equally necessary . I wish with all my Heart I could be as sure , that the Church of Rome doth not break the first Commandment , by her Invocation of Saints , and Adoration of the Host ; and the second Commandment , in her Adoration of Images and the Cross ; as I am sure , that the Church of England neither obstinately denies any Article of the Catholick Faith ; nor countenanceth the Breach of any one of the ten Commandments , as that Church seems too much to do , whilst she takes no little Care , that the People may not know them all . We stedfastly believe the whole Scripture , so far as we are able to understand it explicitly ; and when we do not implicitly , we receive the three Creeds , which have ever been thought to contain the entire Faith of a Christian : wherein then is our Faith partial or defective ? I must consider that anon : at present , seeing Obstinacy , according to our Adversaries , is a necessary ingredient of an Heretick ; I can easily assure my self , tho I do not see how 't is possible for me to satisfy them , that I am no Heretick ; for I certainly know , that I am very desirous to be throughly inform'd , and to be brought to a right understanding of all necessary Truths ; and am still in a readiness , and full preparation of Mind , to believe any one or all of their Articles , whensoever they shall please to prove the Truth of them , either by Scripture , or by unquestionable Apostolical Tradition . I am sure therefore , I deny not obstinately any one Point of Catholick Faith. But till they vouchsafe me the proof I desire , I must content my self with the Scripture , which is able to make wise unto Salvation through Faith which is in Christ Iesus , and not in the Pope of Rome , nor in the Roman Church . And yet I find , that it is for this especially , that we are call'd Hereticks , that we adhere only to the Scripture ; and that they often explain their meaning , in bestowing that Title on us , by calling us Scripturists and Gospellers ; and ridicule us for talking of only Scripture . But when I consider , that this is the Fundamental Heresy wherewith we are charged , I cannot but a little wonder at it ; and find less cause than ever , to think we can be Hereticks indeed , or that they can call us so any otherwise than in jest . Can they grant the Scripture to be the Word of God , and the Gospel to be the Power of God unto Salvation ; and yet in earnest call us Hereticks for being Scripturists and Gospellers ? If , submitting our Faith in all things to the Scripture , we can be Hereticks ; then must the Scripture teach Heresy , and cannot be the Word of God. What a Contradiction is this in Papists , to call us Scripturists and Hereticks ; which is in effect to say , That we adhere only to the Infallible Truth of God , and yet are guilty of obstinate Error in the Faith ? What is it then wherein our Faith is defective ? It is in this , that we do not believe all that the Church of Rome propounds to be believed . This indeed would make us Papists , but whether it would make us better Christians than we are already , is not so certain . A Papist ( saith the Representer ) is one that lives and believes what is prescribed in the Council of Trent . But this Rule of the Papists Faith came into the World ( as we think ) too late , almost by fifteen hundred Years , to be the Rule of the Christian Faith ; and therefore he could not have represented his Religion to us with greater disadvantage than here he doth . We cannot conceive how so small a handful of Prelats , most of them Italians , sworn Vassals to the Bishop of Rome , assembled together at Trent fifteen hundred Years after Christ's preaching , and wholly limited and directed in all their proceedings by the Will and Command of Him , whose Authority was the principal thing in question , and submitting all at last to Him alone , should come by that immense Authority , to command the Faith of the Christian World , or what Commission they could shew from Christ , the Supream Lawgiver , to prescribe Laws of Faith and Life to all Christendom . And we can as little conceive , how this pretended Council , could at once confirm all the General Councils , and among the rest , that of Ephesus before mention'd ; yea , and declare the Nicene Creed to be the firm and only Foundation , and yet contrary to the Decree of that Ephesine Council , and not very consistently to it 's own Declaration , decree so many more Points , than that Creed contains , as necessary to be believed . Moreover , if this be the great Oracle we must consult , as our surest Guide to Heaven ; where must we meet with him , that can give us the certain Sense of its General and Ambiguous Responses ? The learnedst of the Romish Church are not yet well agreed about it ; and if the English Representer , or French Expounder have had the luck to hit it , I am sure , that many heretofore , who thought themselves as wise as either of them , have strangely miss'd it : Or else that Council , and the Religion call'd Popery , hath several Faces for several Times and Countries , and in one place and time , shall look like it self , and in another shall be made to look as like the Protestant Religion , as the Artificial Painter dares make it . But that which here put us to a stand in this , That as the Pope at first taught that Council to speak ; so hath he reserved the Interpretation of its Decrees to the See Apostolick , or himself only ; and He is not always pleas'd in plain terms to let us know his Mind ; and if he should , for once , speak out plainly , it will be a little hard for him to assure us , that none of his Successors shall hereafter contradict him ; unless he can satisfy us , that he has as well the Gift of Prophesying , as that of defining and interpreting . However , it is for not believing the new Articles of Trent , that we are accounted Hereticks , and out of the way to Heaven . And the reason is , because these Articles are supposed to be as firmly grounded on the Word of God , as any of those old ones which we believe : For the Word of God ( saith the Council of Trent ) is partly contain'd in the Books of Scripture , and partly in Traditions unwritten ; these are to be received with the same affection of Piety and Reverence ; and therefore he that disbelieves any Article grounded upon unwritten Tradition , is no less a Heretick , than he that disbelieves what is written in the Books of Scripture . If I knew how to be satisfied concerning the Authority of this Council , I could easily tell what Credit I should give to this , which it so confidently affirms . But so long as I cannot discern the reason of it's pretended Authority , I am a little apt to suspect , that it was not the clearness of this Principle that moved it to make so many either unscriptural or antiscriptural Decrees ; but rather the desire it had of vindicating its unscriptural Doctrines and Practices , that made it necessary to espouse such a Principle . And indeed when I well consider it , I am not a little comforted by it ; that this equalling unwritten Tradition with Scripture , which is the very Basis of the Romish Religion , is one of the most incredible things in the World of it self , and as destitute of any tolerable Evidence , whence it may gain any Credit to it self . It must needs seem very strange to any considering Man , That the wise God should leave us a Rule in writing , on purpose to direct us how to honour Him , and attain to Salvation ; and give it this Commendation , that it is able to make wise unto Salvation ; and yet omit a great many things altogether as necessary to those ends , as those that are written ; and without the Belief and Practice whereof , those that are written can no whit avail us ; and yet never so much as once tell us in all that Writing , whither we should go to seek and learn them : Nay , that he should omit therein the principal Point of all , and without which all that is either written or unwritten can signify nothing , that is , to tell us , That the Roman Church is the only true Church , the only sure and Infallible Interpreter of all that is written ; and the only faithful Keeper of all that is unwritten ; from the Mouth whereof we must receive all saving Truth . This I think is a thing that must needs be very hard for any one to believe , that believes the Infinite Wisdom , Goodness and Veracity of God. And how it can ever be made evident , that there are such necessary unwritten Traditions , or that these , which the Church of Rome holds , are they ; I think no Man living can imagine . I am sure if the Papists way of reasoning be good , it 's safer not to believe this . For all Sides consent , that the Scripture which we have is the certain Word of God ; but all Sides are not agreed , that unwritten Traditions are the Word of God ; therefore it is safer to believe the Scripture only to be the Word of God , and not Traditions . We hold us to Scripture , and the Papists grant that to be the safest Rule ; their greatest strength lies in unwritten , or ( as they are wont to speak ) Oral and Practical Traditions ; which in plain English , is no more but Report and Custom ; and whether there can reasonably be thought any certainty in these , equal to that of the written Word of God given by Divine Inspiration , can be no hard matter for a very weak Understanding to determine . That which makes these unwritten Traditions of the less Credit with me , is the assurance I have , that a pretence to them , and a vain confidence in them , hath produced much Error and Division in the Church . 'T is well known , how far , and how long the Errors of the Millenaries , and of administring the Eucharist to Infants ( to mention no more ) prevail'd on this account . And the early Schisms betwixt the Roman and Asian Churches , about the keeping of Easter ; and the hot Contests between the Roman and African Churches about rebaptizing Hereticks , were occasion'd , and upheld by Pretences on all hands to Tradition . This was the only Refuge of old for Hereticks , when they were confounded by the Scripture , to take shelter under Tradition : whence Tertullian call'd them Lucifugas Scripturarum , Men who shunn'd the Light of the Scriptures . Again , saith he , They confess indeed that the Apostles were ignorant of nothing , and differed not among themselves in their preaching ; but they will not have it , that they revealed all things to all ; for some things they deliver'd openly to all , some things secretly and to a few ; and that because St. Paul useth this saying to Timothy , O Timothy , keep that which is committed to thy trust . And again , that good thing which is committed to thee , keep . Irenaeus also makes mention of Hereticks who affirm'd , That out of the Scriptures the Truth could not be found out by them who understood not Tradition , because it was not deliver'd by Writing , but by living Voice ; for which cause also St. Paul said , we speak Wisdom among them that are perfect . St. Augustine in his 97th Tract upon Iohn , saith , that all the most foolish Hereticks , who desire to be accounted Christians , used to colour their audacious Fictions with a pretence from that Sentence of the Gospel , Joh. 16. 10. I have many things to say unto you , but you cannot bear them now . Thus did the Hereticks of old both plead Tradition , and sought to strengthen their Plea by such places of Scripture as these ; which are the very same , that the Papists produce to the same purpose , as may be seen in Bellarmine , and others . But I find that the Orthodox Fathers of the Church were of another Mind . The things which we find not in the Scriptures ( saith St. Ambrose ) how can we use them ? Ambr. Offic. l. 1. c. 23. Let those of Hermogenes his Shop ( saith Tertullian ) shew that it is written . If it be not written , let them fear that Woe design'd for those that add or take away . Irenaeus saith , that what the Apostles had preach'd , the same afterwards by the Will of God they deliver'd unto us in the Scriptures , to be the foundation and pillar of our Faith. St. Hierome against Helvidius , calls the Holy Scriptures the only Fountain of Truth . Let us bring ( saith St. Austin ) for trial , not the deceitful Ballances , where we may hang on what we will , and how we will , at our own pleasure ; saying , this is heavy , and this is light ; but let us bring the Divine Ballance of the Holy Scriptures , and in that let us weigh what is heavier ; nay , let us not weigh , but let us own the things already weighed by the Lord. And elsewhere , The Holy Scripture ( saith he ) fixeth the Rule of our Doctrine . And indeed the excellent sayings of the Antients to this purpose are so well known , that I should be very vain to cite any more here . If now , after all this , I should suppose , what I can by no means yet grant , that God having order'd the Scriptures to be written , and said so much in the Commendation thereof ; they do not yet contain all things necessary to Salvation , but that some part of those necessary things ( as both some Hereticks of old , and Papists now would have it believed ) was only whisper'd privately into the Ears of the Apostles , as Mysteries unfit at that time to be communicated to vulgar Christians ; and that the Apostles ( tho they were commanded by Christ to preach upon the House-tops that which he had told them privately in the Ear , Mar. 10. 27. ) did not yet think themselves obliged to obey this Command in writing all that was necessary ; but rather to conceal for a time , a considerable part of that mysterious Doctrine . Yea , suppose that this was one principal use of St. Peter's Keys , to lock up all these Mysteries in the Cabinet of the Churches Breast ( let the Church signify what it can ) to be communicated to the World , in after-Ages by piece-meal , so as she should find Men prepar'd by a blind credulity to receive them . Yet after all , I must needs think , that we are too hardly dealt with to be called Hereticks for not believing these things , till something be produced , whereby we may be assur'd , either that these things which they commend to us come indeed from Christ & his Apostles , or that we are obliged to take the Church of Rome's word for a good Assurance . It seems to me a very unreasonable thing , that we should be condemn'd as obstinate , for not believing things never sufficiently proved , whilst we know and declare our selves prepared in Mind to yield upon the first rational Conviction . Why should not that Church have the charity to forbear her Censures , till she have tried the strength of her Arguments ? Why was the Council of Trent , contrary to the Custom of other Councils , so liberal of her Curses , and so sparing of her Reasons ? One good Reason would do more to make us of her Communion than a thousand Anathema's . Would not a Man suspect that they have no good Reasons to shew , who keep them so close ? The plain Truth is , there have been such vain Pretences to Tradition in all Ages , one contradicting another , that it seems impossible in this Age to discern between true and false . Did not Clemens Alexandrinus call it an Apostolical Tradition , that Christ preach'd but one Year ? And did not Irenaeus pretend a Tradition , descending from St. Iohn , that Christ was about fifty Years old when he was crucified ? And do the Papists accout either of these to be true ? Many things might be named , which for some time have been received as Apostolical Traditions , which the Church of Rome will not now own to be so . And those which she owns , she can no more prove to be so , than those she hath rejected . It were easy to shew this , even from abundance of their own Writers , who assert the Perfection of the Scripture , and complain of the Mischief this pretence to Tradition hath done ; and who confess , they cannot be proved to come from the Apostles . But I shall now content my self with the ingenuous Confession of the Bishops assembled at Bononia , in their Counsel given to P. Iulius the 3 d. We plainly confess ( say they ) among our selves , that we cannot prove that which we hold and teach concerning Traditions , but we have some conjectures only . And again ; In truth whosoever shall diligently consider the Scripture , and then all the things that are usually done in our Churches , will find there is great difference betwixt them ; and that this Doctrine of ours is very unlike , and in many things quite repugnant to it . What said Erasmus long since on the 2 d Psalm : They call the People off ( saith he ) from the Scriptures unto little humane Traditions , which they have honestly invented for their own Profit . And Peter Suter , a bitter Adversary of his , hath these words ; Since many things are delivered to be observed , which are not expresly found in Holy Scripture , will not unlearned Persons , taking notice of these things , easily murmur ; complaining that so great Burdens should be laid upon them , whereby the Liberty of the Gospel is so greatly impaired ? Will they not also easily be drawn away from the observance of Ecclesiastical Ordinances , when they shall find that they are not contained in the Law of Christ ? And must we be Hereticks for not believing these so uncertain Traditions ? Must our Faith be accounted defective and not entire , meerly because we do not believe what no Man can make us understand to co come from God ? This seems very hard . It is now time for me to consider the second Objection made against our Faith , which is , That it is not rightly grounded , it is not built on the Authority of the Church , that is , the Church of Rome . And indeed so much weight I find laid upon this one Point , that I have some reason to think , that they , who have been very forward at all times to give such liberal allowances of implicit Faith to their Friends at home , would be contented with a very small measure of explicit Belief in us , if we would once be taught to ground our Faith aright , on the sole Authority of that Church . It seems to me , that for the talk about it , they are no such rigid Exactors of an entire explicit Faith in order to Salvation , but that if we will explicitly believe this one fundamental Point , the Supreme Authority of the Roman Church over all Christians , they will deal very favourably with us in most others ; and excuse our Ignorance easilier , than they can perswade us to be content to be ignorant . I think I have very good reason to believe this , because I know they can have no reason to reject them that believe but this one Point ; for when once this great Gobbet is swallow'd down , the Passage will be so well open'd , that all other Points of Faith either go down with it , or will slip after it without the least straining or grutching . The Authority of God himself , speaking in Scripture , will be of no farther consideration to us ; for that we must suppose to be included in the Authority of our Mother the Church . And whatsoever we shall thence-forward perceive to be the Will of our Mother , we must without all scruple , conclude it to be also the Will of our Father . The Representer hath lately told us , that tho the Scripture ( which is the Word of our Heavenly Father ) may be the Law ; yet the Mother , the Roman Church , is the Iudg. Having learn'd from her the sense of the Scripture , we are obliged to submit to this , and never presume on our own private Sentiments , however seemingly grounded on Reason and Scripture , to believe or preach any new Doctrine opposite to the Belief of the Church . And there 's reason for this , if it be true which he elsewhere tells us , That a Man may very easily frame as many Creeds as he pleases , and make Christ and his Apostles speak what shall be most agreeable to his humour , and suit best with his Interest , and find plain proofs for all ( he means in Scripture ) ; the truth whereof ( as of all other Points of Doctrine ) stands ( as he saith ) upon the same Foundation of the Churches Tradition , which if it fail in one , leaves no security in any . This is indeed to advance the Church to the very top-branch of all Authority , and to make the holy Scripture as very a Nose of Wax , and as Leaden a Rule , as any of that Church ever thought it : seeing a Man may form and work it into Creeds of all fashions , and find plain proofs in it for any odd Humour , or carnal and Worldly Interest . This then ( as far as I can learn by him ) is the only way for me to be a thorow Papist , and a good Catholick , I must lay aside my Reason , and the Scripture , and heed no more what either of these tell me ; only I must have my Ear open to the Voice of the Church , and be wholly at her teaching and command , and I shall be safe enough . Upon the most serious consideration of the Character which the Papist is pleas'd to give us of himself , I cannot find what it is , for which they of that Church are so severely bent against us Protestants ; save only , that we will not , like tame Animals , without any understanding of our own , learn to come and go at a whistle ; or trot on the Road as we are driven , and stoop to take on our Backs whatever Load it shall please the Roman Church to lay upon us , confessing her to have absolute and uncontroulable Authority over our Faith. The standing out against the Catholick Church makes Men Hereticks , and without erring against this , no Man is guilty of Heresy , said the Iesuit Fisher , in his Answer to certain Questions propounded to him by King Iames I. This then is the only Heresy to disown the Authority of the Roman ( for that he calls the Catholick . ) Church . Again , saith he , One fundamental Error of the Protestants , is their denying the Primacy of St. Peter and his Successors , the Foundation which Christ laid of his Church , necessary for the perpetual Government thereof . And again , He that forsakes the Church , puts himself into a dead and damnable State , and may have all things besides Salvation and Eternal Life . Bellarmine speaks out , and tells us very plainly , No Man can , tho he would , be subject to Christ , and communicate with the Celestial Church , that is not subject to the Pope . If then we believe this Authority of the Roman Church , we believe all ; and if we believe not this , we believe nothing at all , in the Papists account ; or to any better purpose , than to our own Damnation . So that without this Belief our Faith shall never pass for an entire Faith ; and when we once believe this , it shall never be any more question'd , whether it be entire or no. Now it seems a very hard matter to believe this great Point of Faith , till very good Reasons be given us for it ; and yet ( it should seem ) the want of such Reasons will not excuse us from being Hereticks , and in a State of Damnation , no not tho we be never so ready to believe it , when we shall have Reasons given us for it . For he is an Heretick ( we are told ) who thinks any thing against the Definition of the Church ; yet stands so affected , that he will think the contrary , if he be convinced by Arguments , or if the matter be propounded to him by a Learned Man. And on the contrary , if we do believe this , we can hardly be Hereticks , whatever Errors we believe , or this Belief draws us into . For if a Rustick ( saith Cardinal Tolet ) believe his Bishop about the Articles of Faith , teaching him some Heretical Doctrine , he merits by believing ; altho it be an Error . So weighty a Point is this , of believing the Authority of the Roman Church , and grounding our entire Faith upon it ; that I perceive I am concern'd above all things to examine it throughly : and this I shall have fitter opportunity to do now I am come to the second thing propounded . SECT . II. Hitherto I have been considering , what ground I have to hope for Salvation , as I am a Protestant , and of the Church of England . I am now in the next place to enquire , Whether I can find any Reason to believe , that the Church of Rome can put me into a more hopeful Way to it , should I turn Papist , and be of her Communion . Now , seeing I have already found , that the great Reason , why we are held uncapable of Salvation as now we are , is this ; That we have no entire Faith ; and the Defect in our Faith is this , That we believe not all the Articles of the Roman Faith ; and that which makes it necessary for us to believe all those Articles , is the Authority of the Catholick , that is , as they interpret , the Roman Church , to declare and define what things are necessary to the Salvation of Christians ; I perceive I have no more to do for my full Satisfaction in the present Inquiry , but to consider , what Reason I can have for the owning and submitting to this Authority . And to discern this , I think this Method fittest to be taken : I will inquire into three things ; I. What things are implied in that Submission to this Authority which is required of me . II. What the Grounds and Reasons are whereon this Authority is founded , and which should perswade me to submit . III. Where this Authority may be found , and to whom I must submit . And this is all , I think , that I need to do ; for I can never think fit to submit my Faith and Conscience , and to trust my Salvation to an Authority , which either requires of me such things as are unreasonable , or can produce no Reason for it self , or is so lodged in Obscurity as it cannot be found . I. I cannot leave the Communion of the Church of England , and enter into that of Rome , in obedience to an Authority which commands me to do things unreasonable , agreeing neither with the Nature of Mankind , nor with the undoubted Principles of Religion . If therefore the Church of Rome require such things of me , I must be a Protestant still , and protest against that Authority , which She pretends to . And for ought I can yet see , I cannot submit to her Authority , but upon the hardest and most unreasonable Terms in the World. I must renounce my Reason and my Iudgment , I must no longer trust my Senses , I must either lay aside , or learn to speak dishonourably of God's Word ; I must not believe a Word that God hath spoken , without that Church's Leave ; I must embrace a Religion , for which , according to that Church's Principles , no Reason can be given to convince me ; and when I have thus learn'd to do all things without Reason , I must do , what with Reason I can never do , believe all Men whatsoever , and how piously soever they otherwise live , if they be not of the Roman Communion , to be in a State of Damnation . If I be deceiv'd in any thing of all this , I shall be very glad to know it ; and I have only this to say for my self , that they were Roman Catholicks , who should know their own Religion best , that have deceived me ; and if I may be deceiv'd by hearkening to them , whom that Church sends abroad to make us Converts , I shall be the less encouraged hereafter , to embrace her Communion upon their Perswasions . Whether all , who are already of her Communion , either own or know all this , it concerns not me to enquire ; but I think it a Debt of Charity , that I owe them , to think , ( till they tell me the contrary ) that they do not ; and that , if they did , they would not long continue where they are . However , till they , who taught me these things , shall either confess their own Error , or shew me my Mistake , I must needs think them all true ; and therefore also account it much safer for me to continue a Protestant , than to turn Papist , whatever it may seem , or be to others . First , I think nothing can be plainer , than that it is more safe to act like understanding , and discreet , considering Men , than otherwise ; or , that the Religion , which alloweth Men so to do , is safer than that which doth not allow it . Now the Protestant Religion alloweth Men to make use of their Reason and Iudgment , to discern between Truth and Falshood , Good and Evil ; which the Roman Religion ( as it seems to me ) will not allow ; and therefore it must needs be the safer Religion . Christ certainly came not into the World to save Sinners by destroying , but rather by restoring and perfecting Human Nature . His business was not to deprive us of the use of the most noble Faculty which God had given us ; but to rectify that , and all the rest , after they had been depraved by Sin. His Gospel was not preached to close up the Eye of the Soul , the Understanding , and so to lead Men blindfold to Heaven ; but to open Mens Eyes , and to furn them from Darkness to Light , Act. 26. 18. The Apostles preach'd , to teach us how to offer unto God a Reasonable Service : Rom. 12. 1. And Christ expects , that his Sheep should be able to discern the voice of him their Shepherd , from the voice of Strangers ; and , avoiding them , to follow him only ; Iohn 10. 4 , 5. St. Peter exhorts Men , to be always ready to give a Reason of the Hope that is in them ; 1 Pet. 3. 15. And St. Paul bids Men prove all things , and hold fast that which is good ; 1 Thess. 5. 21. And St. Iohn exhorts , not to believe every Spirit , but to try the Spirits whether they be of God ; 1 Joh. 4. 1. How any Man shall be able to do all this , and much more , which as a Christian he is obliged to do , and not be allow'd the free use of his Reason and judging Faculty , I am sure , no Man can tell me ; neither indeed how he can be of any Religion at all ; for before he can really be of any Religion , he must choose it ; and choose it he cannot , till he have rationally consider'd and judg'd of it , and of the Reasons which must move him to the choice of it . And in Truth , to deny a Man the free use of his Reason and Iudgment in Religion , is to turn him into a Beast , where he should be most a Man ; and either to make it impossible for him to be of any Religion at all , and to serve God like a Man ; or else to say in effect , That Christian Religion is altogether a most unreasonable thing , and proper only to unreasonable Creatures . Now the Writing Men of the Roman Church tell us nothing more frequently , than that no private Man ought to be allow'd to judg for himself in matters of Faith ; that to allow this , is to set the Gate wide open to all Heresies ; that every Man is bound to sumbit and captivate his Understanding and Iudgment to the Iudgment of the Church , that is , to all the Definitions of ( as they call it ) the Roman-Catholick Church . Whatsoever this Church affirms , we must believe to be true ; and whatsoever She commands , we must chearfully obey , seem the thing to our own private Reason never so false , or never so wicked . We must not dare to examine the Truth or Lawfulness of her Decrees or Determinations , tho Reason and Scripture too , seem to us to be against them , as we have been lately taught by the Representer ; for as we receive from Her the Books , so from Her only we are to receive the Sense of Scripture . Hence it is , that they define a Heretick , to be one that obstinately opposeth the Sentence of the Church . The Doctrines of Fathers ( Bellarmine some-where tells us ) may be examined by Reason , because they teach but as private Doctors ; but the Church teaches as a Iudg , with all Authority , and therefore no Man may dispute the soundness of her Doctrine . This then is the first step I must take , if I will go over to the Church of Rome ; I must resolve to see no longer for my self with my own Eyes , but give my self up to be led by the Church , never questioning the Way I am to go in , so long as she leads me . And truly so far as I am yet able to discern with my Protestant Eyes , it is but needful to close the Eye of Reason before-hand , when I am about to go , where I must otherwise see such things as no Reason can indure . It was therefore very ingenuously spoken ( as I have heard ) of Mr. Cressy , when he said , that the Wit and Judgment of Catholicks , is to renounce their own Judgment , and depose their own Wit. Yet if this be true , I must beg his Pardon , if I dare not yet imitate his Example , or follow him thither , where ( according to him ) I can have nothing to do , but to run headlong upon any thing without Wit or Fear . Reason he is pleased to call a hoodwink'd Guide ; and following it , all we can hope for , is , that we may possibly stumble into the Truth or Church . Possibly ( it should seem ) a Man may stumble upon it with his Eyes in his Head ; and truly , I dare not pull them out , lest I should stumble on a blind Leader , and we should both fall into the Ditch . Secondly ; Whensoever I resolve to enter into the Roman Communion , I fear I must also bid farewell to my Senses ; or resolve never any more to trust them , no , not about those things , which are the proper Objects of Sense ; to discern which , God gave me my Senses ; and of which it will be impossible for me to have any distinct knowledg without them . How unreasonable and dangerous a thing this is , I must needs be very sensible , if I be not resolved already to hearken no more to my Reason . If I must no longer credit my Eyes about Shape and Colour , nor my Ears about Sounds and Words , nor my Nose about Smells , nor my Palate concerning Tasts , nor my Hands and Feeling about Hot and Cold , Hard and Soft ; I shall not know how to believe , that God gave me all these Instruments of Sense to any purpose at all ; I am sure , I cannot think my self in a comfortable and safe Condition . I know not to what end our Blessed Saviour should bid St. Thomas , Handle and see him ; or how his Faith could be thereby confirmed , if such Senses are not to be trusted : nor why the Apostle should hope to have the more Credit given to their Narratives , by telling us they were Eye-witnesses of the things they relate ; 2 Pet. 1. 16. Luke 1. 2. Nor why St. Iohn ( 1 Ioh. 1. 1. ) should talk so much of hearing , seeing and handling , as things qualifying them for bearing witness . What a Christian am I like to be , if I can have no Assurance of what I see or hear ; if I may not trust my Eyes when I read the Scripture , nor my Ears when I hear the Instructions of my Teachers ? How could the first Christians be sure themselves , or assure us , that Iesus is the Christ , if in hearing his Words , and seeing his Miracles , and reading the Prophets , they might not safely trust their Senses ? If Sense be not to be trusted , all Teaching must be by immediate Inspiration ; and Faith comes not by hearing , as St. Paul affirms it doth ; and the Infallible Church can teach no more than we , except she can teach without Speaking or Writing , or any thing that is to be understood by Hearing or Seeing ; and so Oral and Practical Tradition can be of no more use to us , than to the Blind and Deaf . On this Supposition , I may easily mistake a Harlot for my Mother , and stumble into Babylon instead of Hierusalem , hearken to the Voice of the Wolf instead of the Shepherd , eat and drink Poison instead of wholsome Food , and feel no Pain nor Loss when my Eyes are pluck'd out . Now if the Church of Rome do not command us to renounce all Credit to our Senses , she cannot command us to give any Credit to her Doctrine of Transubstantiation . And I fear , without our believing this Point , she will not admit us to her Communion . We believe already a Real Presence of that which we see not , yet will not this serve , unless we believe also a Real Absence of that which we both see , handle , taste and smell . In the holy Sacrament of the Eucharist , I am commanded to believe that there is not any Bread , but Flesh ; nor Wine , but Blood ; and yet there I see , smell , taste and feel both Bread and Wine , and nothing else . I hear it read , that our Blessed Saviour took , blessed , brake and gave Bread and Wine ; and of the same he said , Take , eat and drink . I hear St. Paul again and again ( 1 Cor. 11. 26 , 27 , 28. ) speak of eating and drinking the Bread and the Cup. And yet I must not trust any of these five Senses , but against the clearest Evidence and Testimony of them all , I must believe ( if I can ) that there is neither Bread nor Wine , but that , which neither my Senses can discern , nor my Reason conceive , nor doth the Scripture any where say , the very Natural Flesh and Blood of Christ , under the Colour and Form , the Taste and Smell , and all other proper Qualities of Bread and Wine ; and yet neither that Colour , nor Form , nor Taste , nor Smell , nor any other Accident , which my Senses there perceive , are in the Flesh and Blood , tho there is nothing else there for them to be in . That tho I break and chew with my Teeth what I take and eat ; yet I break not , nor chew with my Teeth the Body of Christ ; and yet I take and eat nothing else . If I cannot believe this , I am told that I have not Faith enough , and only because I have yet Reason and Sense too much , to be of that Communion . This is another step that I must take in going over to the Church of Rome . And when I am got thus far , I may think it seasonable enough to lay aside the Scripture too : For what good Use I can make of it , without the free use of my Reason , and trusting my Senses , I do not understand . Thirdly , If I be a Lay-man , and not of so good credit with the Curate or Bishop , as to obtain a License ; that is , if I will not promise to adhere only to the Doctrine of the Roman Church , and take all that I read in that sense only , which she is pleas'd to give it ; I must not be suffer'd to read the Scripture at all , but must give away my Bible , upon pain of being denied the Remission of my Sins . And truly if I may be allow'd to read it upon no other terms , than of being thus tied up , to learn nothing by it , but what I am before-hand taught without it ; I shall think a License too dear , even at a very low rate ; if yet it may be obtain'd , as I find it question'd , whether it may or no , any where else , but in such places as a License to read some of their own , may prevent their itch of looking into our Translations . However , whether I be of the Lay or Clergy , if I will learn of them who are most busy in endeavouring my Conversion ; I am sure I must be taught to speak very dishonourably of the Word of God ; and this seems to be no more than the Religion commended to me requireth . I must needs here say , That nothing in the World doth ( and I think I may say , ought ) more to prejudice me against any Religion , than to find it constrain'd in its own Defence , to say undecent things of that which it grants to be the Word of God. And if I might be thought worthy to advise the Missionaries , they should not harp too much on this ungrateful String , if they would draw any after them that have the least Zeal for God's Honour . I am verily oerswaded , that the good Language they bestow upon the Scripture , hath kept more out of their Church , than ever their Arguments yet won . I will not now take notice of those too well known Encomiums bestow'd upon it , by some of their Communion , calling it a Nose of Wax , a Leaden Rule , a dead Letter , unsens'd Characters , and I am ashamed to say what more . I shall only observe what is ordinarily taught us and endeavour'd with much Art to be prov'd by their best , most modest , and generally approved Authors : as , That the Scripture is not Necessary ; that it hath no Authority as to us , but from the Church ; that it is an imperfect , an insufficient Rule ; that it is an obscure Book , and finally , a very dangerous one to be read by the People . I know very well , That the Representer , and others of them tell us , That the Papist believes it damnable in any one , to think , speak , or to do any thing irreverently towards the Scripture , and that he holds it in the highest Veneration of all Men living . I know also , that most of them , even whilst they are industriously proving all that I but now said , do yet labour to mollify and sweeten their own harsh Expressions , which they know must needs grate the Ears of all pious Persons . I am also verily perswaded , that many Papists have a very venerable esteem for the Scripture , and are not a little troubled to hear it reproachfully used . And yet I cannot see that highest Veneration for it , or that they speak not very irreverently of it , who speak no worse of it , than the Representer himself hath taught them , viz. That it is not fit to be read generally of all without License ; tho he gives this very good reason for it , Lest they should no longer acknowledg the Authority of the Roman Church ; or in his own words , No Authority left by Christ , to which they are to submit . As tho Men might be taught by the Scripture to be disobedient to any Authority which Christ hath set up in his Church . I cannot see any great Veneration he hath to the Scripture , in saying , They allow a restraint upon the reading of the Scriptures , for the preventing of a blind ignorant Presumption , or the casting of the Holy to Dogs , or Pearls to Swine , ( such too is his respect for Christians ) That he hath no other assurance that they are the Word of God , but by the Authority and Canon of the Church . That almost every Text of the Bible and even those that concern the most essential and fundamental Points of the Christian Religion may be interpreted several ways , and made to signify things contrary to one another . That it is altogether silent , without discovering which of all those Senses is that intended by the Holy Ghost , and leading to Truth ; and which are erroneous and Antichristian . That a Man may frame as many Creeds as he pleases , and make Christ and his Apostles speak what shall be most agreeable to his Humour , and suit best with his Interest , and find plain Proofs for all . That it alone can be no Rule of Faith to any private or particular Person . Certainly they who talk of the Scripture at this rate , have not the highest Veneration for it , of all Men living . They that say , and labour to prove , that the Scripture is not necessary , may well be supposed to think , that the Church of God might do well enough without it . And , tho to lessen the Odiousness of this Assertion , they are forced to confess it is a Lie , without the help of some such mental Reservation as this , So that God could not , if he pleas'd , preserve his Truth among Men , some other way than by writing it ; yet doth not this speak in them the like Veneration for the Scripture , as Protestants have , who down-rightly affirm it to be necessary . And it must needs sound ill to say , That the All-wise God hath been very careful to leave and preserve in his Church an unnecessary thing . Yea , 't is altogether as absurd to say , the Scripture is not necessary , because God could , if it had seem'd good to him , have preserv'd his Church and Faith without it : As it would be to say , that Plowing and Sowing , or Eating and Drinking are not necessary , because God could , if he pleas'd , make the Ground bring forth without the one , and preserve Man's Life without the other . Nor can it be imagin'd that any Man upon this account only , would venture to say , and attempt to prove the Scripture not to be necessary in a sense , wherein no Man ever affirm'd it ; if he were not so zealously bent upon lessening the Esteem which we have for it , that he will chuse rather to say nothing to the purpose , and dispute against no Body , than to be silent , and say nothing that sounds ill of it ; and that he thinks it needful for the ends of his Church so to do . In like manner , when they contend that the Authority of the Scripture is from the Church , which is the thing whereof at every turn they are forward enough to mind us ; they are forced again to make some Abatements to make it seem a Truth . 'T is true , they say , that consider'd in it self alone , it hath its Authority from God ; whereby they can mean no more , but that God is the Author of it ; but in relation to us , it hath its Authority from the Church . Now I would fain know , what any Man can understand properly by the Authority of the Scripture , but its relation to us , or the Power it hath to command our Faith in it , and Obedience to it , as the Word of God. And if it have all this Power from the Church , as is confidently affirm'd , then tho it self be of God , yet all its Authority is from the Church ; and it must needs be true , which was said by one of them , That it is of no more Authority than Livy or Aesop ' s Fables without the Churches Declaration . Thus is the Authority of God's Word made to depend upon the Authority of Men , and all our Faith is no more but humane Faith resting upon humane Testimony . And if the Authority which it hath to oblige us , be from the Church , I would know by what Authority it doth oblige the Church ; it is not sure , by any Authority from Her , for then I see no reason why the Church may not chuse whether she will receive it or no ; whilst yet I think , that it is only by the Authority of the Scripture that she can pretend to be a Church , and to have any Authority at all . However this I am sure of , that they who say the Scripture is to be receiv'd for the Churches Sake , have not so high a Veneration , either for it , or the Author of it , as they who say it is to be receiv'd for God's Sake . And in the next place , whether we , who say the Scripture is a perfect and sufficient Rule of Faith and Manners , containing all things necessary to Salvation ; or they , who say , 't is but a partial and imperfect Rule : We , who say ; 't is plain and easy to be understood in all things necessary ; or They , who say 't is dark and obscure , unable to inform and resolve Learners , Doubters , and Inquirers , and that even in Essentials and Fundamentals of Religion : Finally , Whether We , who say , it ought to be read and studied of all Men ; Or They , who say , it is not needful , yea , dangerous to be read of all , have the higher Veneration for the Holy Scripture , is no hard matter to determine ; if to commend a thing , may be said to be more Honour to it , than to disparage it . And tho here again , they use some Art and Colour to set off such ill-favour'd Sayings , as well as they can ; yet serves this to no other end in my Mind , but to make them more Ugly and Odious . They deny not ( for all this , they say ) the Perfection , Sufficiency , or Plainness of the Scripture , nor that it may be read by the People . What then is it they say ? They affirm , that it contains all necessary Truths , either Explicitly , or at least Virtually ; for some Truths it declares expresly , and yet so , as the Church alone must give the Sense ; and for all the rest , it plainly ( if the same Church may here also give the Sense ) sends us to the Church to learn them . Now I cannot ( for my Heart ) imagine what all this can signify , but only a desire to lessen the Scripture's Authority , as plausibly as they can . To me it seems very plain , that they make the Scripture just nothing , and the Church all in all . I think it here again , well deserves my Consideration , That the SCRIPTURE is very copious in declaring , and repeating too , over and over again , many necessary Points of Faith and Duty ; and not only necessary things , but many other things also it largely teacheth , which are by all granted to be of less moment and necessity to the Salvation of Men ; and all this it doth in as plain Words and Phrases , as can be used . And hence I find it very hard for me to believe , that the HOLY GHOST , by whose Inspiration it was Written , should do all this for our Instruction , and that in a Book written on purpose to make us wise unto Salvation , and by himself declared able so to do , and yet omit many things of greatest necessity to that end ; never so much as once , no not in any obscure manner , pointing out to us that Church , to whose Authority we must resort and submit . This were to leave us a Treasure closely lock'd up , and not to tell us where we may find the Key , that can let us in to it , and so we are neither the Wiser , nor the Richer for it . Whatsoever the PAPISTS are pleas'd to alledg for their speaking thus of the Word of the Blessed God , I confess I cannot think any better of their Religion for it . Let us say what we will in Commendation of holy SCRIPTURE , they will be sure to find something to say against it ; lest , I suppose , it should be thought , we can at any time speak Truth . And when we charge them for speaking dishonourably of the SCRIPTURE , they so interpret their Words , as they seem to say the same that we did , and which they blamed us for . What can be their meaning in this , but either to make the World believe that we are in an Error ; tho , when they come to Apologize for themselves , they are forced to confess it a Truth ; or that their Religion necessarily requires it of them in its Vindication , to vilify the SCRIPTURE ; tho by saying such things of it , as they acknowledge cannot be true , unless interpreted so , as to speak our Sense ? They must therefore in this , deal either very disingenuously with us , or very injuriously with the holy SCRIPTURE . For my part , I cannot believe , that Men professing the Christian Faith , and owning the SCRIPTURE to be the Word of GOD , could ever be persuaded to speak so , as but seemingly to vilify or disparage it , if their Doctrines could be any other way defended . Their Religion , I say , must need it , or they too little consult the Honour of their Religion , in needlesly uttering such Speeches , as stand in need of a very great measure of Charity , to think them less than Blasphemy . Fourthly , If any PROTESTANT dares venture thus far , towards the Church of ROME ; the next thing he has to do , is to resolve , not to believe one Word that GOD speaks , without that Church's leave . I am confident , that there are not many of our Lay-PAPISTS , that think themselves to be under this Obligation ; and that if they were sensible of it , they would make haste to break loose from it . But for my own part , I see not how I can enter into their Communion , but I must draw it upon my self . And this I think , would be to advance the ROMAN Church to as great a height in my esteem , as they in her , who are most zealous for her Infallibility , can desire . What more would they have , than that GOD himself , where they confess he speaks , should stand to their Church's Courtesy , whether or no he should be believed ? I know it will be said , They never disallow'd any man to believe GOD. But because all men cannot understand GOD speaking in the SCRIPTURE , the Church is appointed by Him to be his Interpreter . This I hear , and to me it sounds not well , That GOD should speak to Men things necessary for all to know , and which he commands all to learn and believe upon pain of eternal Damnation ; and yet not speak so intelligibly , as they may understand Him. Certainly , he that made the Tongue , and gave man Understanding , can speak ( if he please ) as Intelligibly as the Church , which cannot Speak or Understand at all , without his Help and Teaching . And considering his Infinite Goodness and Impartiality ; till he shall tell me so himself , I know not how to believe that he hath so much more respect to the Honour of the ROMAN Church , than to the Salvation of Mankind , that he would so deliver things belonging to Salvation , that no Man can be able to understand , and be the better for them , but he that resorts to that Church as God's sole Interpreter . And if indeed she be so , it must follow , that we cannot believe one Word that God speaks without her leave . For , therefore is she made God's Interpreter , because otherwise we cannot understand his Word ; and I am sure , what we cannot understand , we cannot believe . 'T is the Sense , they say , and not the Letter , is God's Word ; and this Sense is in the Church's Breast , and of Her alone we must learn it ; and therefore , till She give us leave , we cannot believe it , no not so much as , that JESUS is the CHRIST ; altho , till we believe this , we cannot believe that he hath a Church , and therefore cannot believe She is His Interpreter . I will not now inquire into the Reasons , Why this Church , which is God's sole Interpreter , takes so excellent a Course to make her Children understand God's Word . Why first , She keeps it in the Latin Tongue only , whereof the far greater number of them understand not one Syllable . Why secondly , She doth not give them some Infallible Translation , Interpretation , or Comment of the Scripture ; a thing very easie for an Infallible Interpreter to do ; and therefore , in my Opinion , must argue a great defect in her Charity , and much unfaithfulness in the discharge of her Trust , if she do it not . I am loath to ask such Questions as these , because I find it goes so much against the Hair to answer them . Indeed I think she doth not the latter for a very good Reason , because she cannot ; and 't is only her vain pretence to such a Power , that makes her inexcusable if she do it not . And the former she is concern'd to do , that they , who have the Word of God only in a Language which they cannot understand , may be constrain'd of necessity to depend upon her Instruction , and never to question her Authority , nor discern her Errors . Whilst they have nothing of the Word of God , but from her mouth , they can have no more of it , than what she gives them leave to have ; and therefore , can neither believe a Word of what GOD speaks , nor indeed that he hath spoken any thing but by her leave . God speaks very plainly , and intelligibly enough in the second Commandment , forbidding the Adoration of Images , as plainly , as he forbids to commit Adultery , or to Steal . And Christ spake very plainly , and as intelligibly , saying , Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God , and him only shalt thou serve , Matt. 4. 10. And again , when he said of the Eucharistical Cup , Drink ye all of it , Matt. 26. 27. as when he said , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart , and thy Neighbour as thy self . St. Paul very plainly ordereth , that the publick Worship of God be perform'd in a known Tongue , and sheweth the great absurdity of using an unknown Tongue in God's Worship , 1 Cor. 14. And he speaks intelligibly enough , when he saith , Let a man examine himself , and so let him eat of that Bread , and drink of that Cup , 1 Cor. 11. 28. To say no more , we think it plainly enough said , of them that die in the Lord , that they rest from their labours , Rev. 14. 13. In all these things we hear God speak , and would fain believe him . But here the Church of ROME comes in with her Authority , and tells us , That , tho GOD have said , He only is to be worshipped , we must believe , that not he only , but also the Cross , Images , Saints and Angels , are to have a share in our Religious Worship . And say CHRIST and his Apostles what they please to the contrary , we must believe , that not all , but the sacrificing Priest ought to drink of the Cup ; that God's publick Worship is well perform'd in an unknown Tongue ; that we neither eat Bread , nor drink Wine in the Eucharist ; that all who died in the Lord , do not rest from their labours ; but that the most of them go into most dreadful torments . At this rate , for ought I can see , must I believe the Word of God , when I have once submitted to the Authority of the Church of ROME . Fifthly , It seems very hard for me to conceive how I should be bound under penalty of Eternal Damnation , to espouse a Religion , and submit to an Authority , for which no convincing Reason can be given me by them that invite me to it . What is it in any Religion , which can commend it before others to a man's Choice , but its Truth and Goodness ? And how should the Truth and Goodness of any Religion commend it to my Choice , till they be discover'd unto me , and I be rationally convinced that it hath them ? Whatever Truth and Goodnoss there may really be in the Religion called POPERY , I am sure they can be no motives to me to embrace it , till they be clearly laid open to my Understanding and Iudgment , that I may plainly discern them ; and therefore , if any PAPIST will take an effectual course to Convert me to it , he must by rational means convince me first , that his is the true Church , and her Doctrines sound and good . How he can do this upon his own Principles , I see not yet ; but rather think it a very gross absurdity in him to attempt it . He tells me often , that no private Person , such as I am , ought to judg for himself in Points of Faith , or therein to follow his own private Iudgment , tho to him grounded both on Reason and Scripture . He must not therefore in disputing with me , ( according to his own Doctrine ) bring either Reason or Scripture to convince me , for I must not trust my own private Iudgment , ( and I know no other that I have ) tho ( as it seems to me ) grounded both on Reason and Scripture . I must not judg for my self by either of them , whether what he commends to me by them , be true or no , and then I cannot imagine to what end he useth them in any dispute with me . He must resolve therefore , ( for ought I can see ) whenever he would convert me , to judg for me too , as well as dispute with me ; and then , if I cannot make a right Choice for my self , he may do it for me ; tho after all , whether his private Iudgment be any more to be trusted in such a case , than my own , I may possibly doubt . Either it is a matter of Faith , That the Church of ROME is the only true Church , and that She hath this Authority of determining for all Christians , which is the saving Faith of CHRIST , or it is not . If it be not , I may be safe enough , tho I believe it not ; and 't is ill done of PAPISTS to terrify me with these big Words , which are as false as terrible , That I cannot be saved without believing this . If it be a matter of Faith , then must I either be allow'd to judg for my self by my own private judgment in a matter of Faith , or all the PAPISTS endeavours to persuade me to believe it , are altogether vain , unless it be reasonable for me to believe a thing against my Reason and Iudgment . When he useth Arguments , I should think he meant thereby to convince me in my private Iudgment ; but it seems , 't is only to drive me out of it ; and that , if I may use it at all , it is only to this end , that I may conclude I have no use of it . All the Arguments in the World cannot convince me , till I judg of them ; and therefore no PAPIST can offer me a Reason why I should embrace POPERY , but he must contradict himself , and give me as strong a Reason , why I should not embrace it , because its Principles are false . It will be all one , as if he should say , I ought to be convinced by Reason , and yet I neither ought nor can be convinced by it . In urging his Reasons upon me , he intends they should convince me ; in denying me the Liberty of judging for my self by Reason , he denies that any Reasons can convince me ; because 't is plain , they cannot convince me before I have judged of them , and this I must do by my private Iudgment , or by nothing , for I have no other . But here I am told , We are allow'd to make use of our Reason to find out the true Church , which may Infallibly guide us into all saving Truth . All that is required of us , is this , that when we have once found this true Church , we presume no longer to judg for our selves , but captivate our Reason to the Infallible Iudgment of the Church . This is something , and yet it seems but extorted from them , to make a little more plausible , what to me seems one of the greatest pieces of Folly in the World ; I mean , the attempt of convincing men by Reason , who must not be allow'd to judg of the Reasons whereby they must be convinced . I find Reason , by a Traditionary Papist , compared to a dim-sighted Man , who used his Reason to find a trusty Friend to lead him in the Twilight , and then reli'd on his Guidance rationally , without using his own Reason at all about the way it self . Thus are we allow'd Reason to find out the Church of ROME , our sure Friend to guide us , and on whose Guidance we must rationally Rely , after we have captivated our Reason to her , and for her sake have resolved to use it no more . But now , if this Reason , which is to direct us to our Guide , be such a dimsighted thing , and as we heard before , Hoodwink'd too , so that whilst we follow it , we can have no more hope , than only that we may possibly stumble into the Catholick Church ; who will secure us , that we shall not in this Twilight mistake a treacherous Enemy for a trusty Friend ; and then , what shall we gain by our rational Reliance on him ? A dimsighted Man in the Twilight , may easily mistake one thing for another , else should he not much need a trusty Guide ; and why he may not mistake his Guide , as well as his Way , I do not yet know . But that I may be satisfied , how much I gain by this liberal Concession , to use my Reason and private Iudgment in inquiring after the true Church ; I will a little consider , how the PAPIST is wont to talk with me , when he would persuade me to take his Church for my only sure Guide . First , he tells me , There is but one true Faith ; and then , that this Faith must be held entirely ; next , that this entire Faith is nowhere to be found , but in the true Church . After this he begins again , and tells me , Christ hath a Church upon Earth ; That there is but one true Church ; That out of it there is no Salvation ; and lastly , That the ROMAN Church , and no other , is that one true Church out of which there is no Salvation . And till we have found that it is so , he will give us leave to judg for our selves . And I would thank him for this kindness , if he would allow me to enjoy the benefit of it , and to make any use of it ; otherwise it will look but like a Mockery . I desire therefore some clear convincing Evidence , That the ROMAN Church is the only true Church . He cannot to this purpose , produce the Consent of all Christians , for two parts in three deny it . Therefore he gives me a great many Marks or Signs , sometimes more , sometimes fewer , whereby the only true Church must be known from others , and spends a great many words in shewing me how they agree to the ROMAN Church , and no other . That wherein I would next have same Satisfaction , is , supposing that all his Marks agree to the ROMAN Church , and no other ; how I may know , that these are indeed the certain and incommunicable Marks and Proprieties of the only true Church ? To prove this , he betakes himself to the HOLY SCRIPTURE , and brings me thence some Texts , whereby he says , they are clearly proved to be so . I now , with a very hearty and sincere desire to learn the Truth , and with all diligent use of such helps , as I can come by , read and consider all these Texts , and cannot discern in them any Evidenee at all of the thing which they are brought to prove ; and therefore think it reasonable yet to call for some clearer proof . But now , when 't is come to this , I presently find , that his liberal Concession to make use of my Reason and private Iudgment to find out the true Church , amounts to no more than I at first suspected , that is just nothing : For here he retires to his Principle of PORERY , That I being a private Person , ought not to judg for my self , what is the Sense of those Texts of Scripture , but must submit my Reason and Iudgment , to the Iudgment of the Church ( yea , even before I have found the Church ) and without any dispute , receive the Sense of Scripture from her alone Thus he recals at once all that he had allow'd ; and undoes again , whatsoever he had been adoing , to persuade me to his Communion . He was giving me Reasons , which might convince me in my Iudgment ; and these at length resolve all into the Authority of the Scripture ; and yet , of this Testimony of the Scripture I must not Iudg ; and therefore by it I cannot be convinced of any thing , but this , that the Church of ROME is resolved to be Mistress of all Christians ; and thinks it enough to convince us that she is so , if whilst she sets some of her Sons to hold us up in empty talk of Scripture and Reason to no purpose , she step out from behind the Curtain , saying , Believe it , I am she . Now I cannot possibly see , whatever others may do , ( for I keep yet to my Protestant Principles of Judging for no man but my self ) how I can embrace POPERY upon any conviction from PAPISTS ; and I fear I must either take it without any Reason for it , or not at all . If I cannot know the ROMAN Church to be the only true Church , but by the Testimony of the SCRIPTURE ; and if I cannot understand the Testimony of the SCRIPTURE , till I receive the true Sense of it from the ROMAN Church ; and if I cannot take that for the true Sense of it , upon Her Declaration of it so to be , unless moved by her Authority , I must be persuaded to do the most unreasonable thing in the World , to my thinking ; to believe a Church to be the only true Church , for her own Authority , which I yet know no more , than I do her to be the true Church ; which , it is all along supposed , I do not know at all ; This I think not only unreasonable , but impossible . I must needs confess my self very hard to be persuaded of the tender goodness of that Mother , who , lest her Children should get hurt by the dimness of their sight , will needs pull out their Eyes , and keep them in her Pocket , till she has taught them to use them better . I am very loath to part with my Reason , how dimsighted soever , because I know not how to serve God without it . Yet if I should dare to venture thus far , may I now have leave to take my rest here ? If my dimsighted Reason help me to stumble into my Mother's lap , may I yet think my self safe there ? Not till I have learn'd her Charity too as well as her Faith , which the REPRESENTER tells us , She learn'd of Christ and his Apostles . Therefore , Lastly , I must believe , that all other Christians but PAPISTS , are in a state of Damnation . The Decree of P. BONIFACE the VIIIth , as now it stands in the common Extravagants , is well known to be this , We declare , say , define , and pronounce , That it is altogether of necessity to SALVATION , that every Creature be subject to the POPE of ROME . P. PIUS the II. in his Bull of Retractation , ( tho he was not altogether of the same mind ( as it seems ) before , whilst he was Aeneas Sylvius ) saith , He cannot be saved that doth not hold the Unity of the ROMAN Church . If so lusly a Decree , and so preremptory a Declaration of two POPES be too little , there is abundance more to this purpose to be met with , by him that has a mind to search for it : I only take notice at this time , that P. LEO the X th , in his Lateran Council , and his Bull therein read and pass'd , saith , We do renew and approve that same Constitution ( viz. of P. BONIFACE , but now mentioned ) , the present Sacred Council also approving it . And Lastly , P. PIUS the IV th , in his Bull , wherein he confirms the Council of TRENT , imposeth an Oath upon Ecclesiastical Persons , wherein they swear , That the HOLY CATHOLICK and APOSTOLICK ROMAN Church , is the MOTHER and MISTRESS of all Churches ; and that this is the true CATHOLICK FAITH , without which no man can be SAVED . Here 's enough in all Conscience for us PROTESTANTS to hear , and too much a great deal ( as I think ) for any man to believe . I think my self bound in Charity , to have the best Opinion I can of all men ; and therefore I dare not think , that all they who are called ROMAN CATHOLICKS , have throughly learn'd this Doctrine . There seems to me to be so much of Ill-nature in it , that I should think my self the worst natur'd man in the World , if I could believe that any considerable numbers of them , besides the Priests , are guilty of it . Many piously disposed Souls , are not so happy , as to have always the clearest Understandings , or the sincerest Teachers , but have better Hearts than either Heads or Guides . Their Zeal is too great for both their opportunities of Learning , and Patience to consider ; their earnestness of SALVATION , a thing very laudable in them , puts them into too much haste to deliberate long , and gives an advantage to some , who watch for it , to abuse them . Either a cunning JESUIT , or a canting FANATICK , will hope to make an easy Prey of such Persons ; for it matters not greatly of which sort the Tempter be , whilst the Temptation is the same : The Fish minds not the Fisher , but the Bait : Every Argument from either , is edged with a mighty Zeal and Importunity , and sharpned with the sinest and most penetrating Expressions of a most tender Compassion for perishing Souls . SALVATION is as confidently promised , as earnestly desired ; and whether it be to be had in the ROMANISTS Infallible Church , or in the SEPARATISTS purg'd and unmix'd Congregation , all 's a case , when once the man is made to think it cannot be had in the Church of ENGLAND . If they who are so easily Proselyted either way , would take time to look before they leap , and could but see into the consequents of those very Arguments which most prevail with them , and are made the Traps to catch them in , they would stand off a little , and ask a few Questions more , for their better Satisfaction ; before they could endure to think of entring into a Communion , which would oblige them , as ever they hope to be saved themselves , to believe that CHRIST hath no faithful Followers upon Earth , but a few Subjects of the POPE of Rome . I can easily perceive , by divers Books written by them who call themselves Converts , that the main Motive of their going over to the ROMAN Church , was this , That they could not hope to be saved in any other : And I find that most Arguments of late used , to persuade us to that Religion , look the very same way ; And it is this Doctrine alone , that hath put me upon this Enquiry for my own Satisfaction : For I must needs confess , that this Doctrine , which some acount so powerful a Persuasive to Popery , has always with me had the quite contrary effect to what I find it hath in them ; and has been , and is at this present to me , as strong a Dissuasive from it . If I can never be a PAPIST , till I can believe it , I am very confident , I shall never be one . I would leave the Church of ENGLAND the next Minute , should she require of me to believe , that all out of her Communion were in a state of Damnation ; and truly I think that most PROTESTANTS are of my mind . When therefore I found the REPRESENTER in good earnest to vindicate his Church in this one Point , I presently concluded , that he had writ his whole Book to no purpose ; for let him spend all his Oyl and Colours in painting POPERY to the best advantage , so long as this one Spot appears in her Face , she may possibly seem in her new Dress less terrible , but not one jot more lovely . Having told us , That no one can arrive to the true knowledg of the Catholick Faith , but by receiving it as proposed and believed by the Church of CHRIST ; and that the ROMAN CATHOLICK is the only true Church ; that whosoever denies any Article of her Faith , denies so much of CHRIST's Doctrine ; That whosoever hears Her , hears CHRIST ; and whosoever obstinately and wilfully is separated from Her , is in the same distance separated from CHRIST himself ; and finally , That God addeth to this Church daily , such as shall be saved : He hath told us enough to persuade us , that no PROTESTANT in the World could have done that Church a greater diskindness , than he hath done ; nor by any Misrepresentation of her , have worse Represented her . When the PAPISTS are pleas'd to ask us that unanswerable Question , as they account it , Where was your Religion before LUTHER ? They wish us withal , to take into our Serious Consideration , the state of our Forefathers , who lived and died in the Religion of the Church of ROME ; asking us , if we dare think , that they were all damn'd : We need not trouble our heads with shaping an Answer to so frivolous a Question , because we durst never yet be so hardy as to affirm , that all are damn'd , who live and die in the Communion of the Church of ROME ; but do openly declare to the World , that tho we think our own Religion the safest , yet many of that Communion have been heretofore , and many also are at this day , under such Circumstances , as encourage us to hope very well of them as to their future state . However if it so well deserve our Consideration , what 's become of our Forefathers ? doth it not as well deserve the Consideration of the ROMANISTS , what is become of many of theirs ? Yea , What will become of the greatest part of the Christian World , who live and die out of their Communion ? And if they would have us think the worse of the Reformation , left by thinking well of it , we should be wanting in Charity to our Fathers , which yet we are by it no way obliged to be ; should it not move them to think the worse of their Religion , that it constrains them to think so uncharitably , not only of their Fathers , but of all the World but themselves only ? How many most Eminent and Worthy Persons , How many great and famous Churches , must I be obliged , by embracing the ROMAN Faith , to believe excluded from SALVATION ? Upon these terms , I cannot see how 't is possible for me to be Reconciled to the Church of ROME , without professing my self an irreconcileable Enemy to all the Christian World besides . I must turn Hector , and call all other Christians , damn'd Hereticks . I must needs say , this appears not to me , like that Meek and Lamb like Spirit of the Blessed JESUS , which is given by him to his Dove-like Spouse , that thus Rants it in his pretended Vicars , and their Adherents . It seems not to be much a kin to that Christian Charity , which hopeth and believeth all things , and thinketh no evil , 1 Cor. 13. 7. I must make nothing of condemning all PROTESTANTS and PROTESTANT Churches , of what other Denomination soever ; and these alone are no inconsiderable part of Christians : These Hereticks ( saith Bellarmin ) possess many and ample Provinces , ENGLAND , SCOTLAND , ( and why not IRELAND ? ) DENMARK , SWEEDLAND , NORWAY ; no small part of GERMANY , POLAND , BOHEMIA , and HUNGARY ; he might have said also , of FRANCE , and HELVETIA . It was anciently the Custom , ( saith Tolet ) that the POPE did three days every year , tho now but once a year , viz. upon the Holy Thursday ( he means the Thursday immediately before Easter , call'd Coena Domini ) with great Solemnity , before all the People , thunder out his Sentence of Excommunication against all Hereticks , of what Name or Sect soever ; but against the Queen of ENGLAND ( which was then Q. Elizabeth ) by name ; with all their Believers , Receivers , Favourers , and Defenders ; against all that read their Books publickly or privately , with what intention soever , or under whatever pretence , tho there be no Error in them , or with a design to consute the Error , if there be any without his Holiness's License ; against the Keepers , Printers , and Defenders , in any manner , of the same ; against all Schismaticks , and such as pertinaciously withdraw themselves , and depart from their Obedience to the POPE ; against any one that shall so much as say , that Calvin was a good man ; against all that appeal from the Orders , Decrees , or Mandates of the POPE , to a future COUNCIL . And 't is very well known , that they are not all PROTESTANTS who have done so . Neither will this suffice , I must also condemn the whole GREEK Church , which how Ancient , and of how large Extent it is , is very well known : And some reason there seems to be for it ; For ( saith Bellarmin ) the Greeks in the year 451 , in the Council of CHALCEDON , consisting of 600 Bishops , endeavoured to make the Patriarch of CONSTANTINOPLE equal to the Bishop of ROME . And again , In the year 1054 , they pronounc'd the Bishop of ROME to have fallen from his degree of Dignity , and the Bishop of CONSTANTINOPLE to be the first Bishop . And tho he pretends that these Greeks were once reconciled to ROME in the Council of FLORENCE , yet he adds , that they always returned to their Vomit . No wonder therefore , if this GREEK Church cannot escape Damnation : And yet this poor Reprobated Church yields not to that of ROME in any of her own principal Marks of a true Church . I read that the Christians of her Communion , in NATOLIA , CIRCASSIA , MENGRELLIA , RUSSIA , GREECE , MACEDONIA , EPIRUS , THRACIA , BULGARIA , &c. do very near , if not quite , equal the number of those who are of the ROMAN Communion . And yet will not this be enough , unless we include in this Sentence of Condemnation , all the Assyrian Christians living amongst the Mahometans in BABYLON , ASSYRIA , MESOPOTAMIA , PARTHIA and MEDIA , with the Iacobites , Armenians , Egyptians , Aethiopians , and the vast Empire of the HABASSINES : All these I must look upon as cut off from CHRIST , merely for their disowning the POPE's Authority , tho they should be found Orthodox in all other points . And truly I know not how to get up to that height of Boldness , not to be afraid of condemning so many Christians , most of which have given , and do yet give to the World the most notable Testimony of Fidelity to CHRIST , that can be expected , in their constant sufferings for the sake of his holy Name and Gospel . After this Consideration of whole Churches , it seems needless for me to come down to that of single Persons , tho confessedly of greatest Note and Eminence in the Church of CHRIST , both for Learning and Piety . How St. Polycarp Bishop of SMTRNA , and a famous Martyr , who would not obey P. Anicetus , but still keep his Easter contrary to the custom of the ROMAN Church , and therein seem'd either as ignorant of his Duty , or as stubborn as any PROTESTANT : or how his Successor in that See , Polycrates , who desended himself and his Church so arrogantly against the Authority of the ROMAM Church , more than sufficiently declared by P. Victor , still pleading the Example of Polycarp , and Authority of St. Iohn , as tho he had never heard St. Peter was made Prince of the Apostles , or that the Bishops of ROME were his Successors in that Authority over all Churches . How Irenaeus and all his Fellow-Bishops of the Gallican Church , who so presumptuously took upon them to expostulate the matter with the same Victor , and in very homely terms to chide him for excommunicating those Asian Christians for not changing their Ancient Customs at his Command . How St. Cyprian the holy Bishop of Carthage , and Martyr , with his Bishops of Africa , Numidia and Mauritania , joining with him in so contumaciously resisting P. Stephen : The Sixty Bishops in the Milevitan Council ; or those Two hundred and Seventeen , whereof the famous St. Austin was one , who not only stubbornly rejected the Claim , but also manifestly demonstrated the Fraudulence and Forgery of three POPES , Zosimus , Boniface and Caelestine , about appeals to ROME . How all these shall be exempted from this Censure , I know not . Did not the later of these African Councils decree , That the Bishop of the first See ( meaning ROME ) should not be call'd the Prince of Priests , or chief Priest , or any such thing , but only the Bishop of the first See ? Did it not Excommunicate every Priest that should Appeal to ROME ? It seems to me , that St. Athanasius could have no great opinion of the Infallibility of P. Liberius , when , through fear , himself h●● forgot he had any such thing , and consented with the Arrians to the Condemnation of that holy Father . St. Hierom seems not to have had any thoughts of the POPES's Supremacy , when he said , That whereever there is a Bishop , whether at great ROME , or petty Eugubium , he is of the same Merit and Priesthood . Neither did either he or St. Austin seem to have had a just esteem for the Church of ROME's Authority , when they preferred that of the Eastern Church before it , in receiving the Epistle to the Hebrews into the Canon of SCRIPTURE . Above all , what must I think of their Great Saint . P. Gregory the First , who called the Title of UNIVERSAL BISHOP , a new Title , which none of his Predecessors ever used , a name of Vanity , a Profane Name , wicked , and not to be uttered , yea a Blasphemous ; saying , that whosoever desired it , shew'd himself to be the forerunner of Antichrist ? If I must believe this great POPE and SAINT , I know well enough what to think of most of his Successors in the Infallible Chair ; If I must not believe Him , why must I believe those who succeeded him ? Had not He and They one and the same Authority as POPES of ROME ? Believe both I cannot ; and disbelieving either , as all PAPISTS , no less than I , must disbelieve the one , I am no better than a Heretick , and uncapable of Salvation . Farther yet , I find that the African Council , but now mention'd , did alledg for it self the Sixth Canon of the First General Council held at NICE , which is this , Let the old Custom be kept through Aegypt , Lybia and Pentapolis , so that the Bishop of ALEXANDRIA have power over all these , because the Bishop of ROME hath also the like Custom . By this Canon these two Bishops seem to be made equal in Power . In the Fourth General Council held at Calcedon , and Ninth Canon , it is ordered , That if any Bishop or Clerk have a Controversie with the Metropolitan of that Province , they have recourse to the Primate of the Diocese , or certainly to the See of the Royal City of Constantinople , that the business may be ended there . This Council seems hereby to make the Bishop of Constantinople equal to the Bishop of Rome ; and this it did , notwithstanding great opposition made against it by P. Leo the First . So that I must involve in the same Censure of Condemnation some of the most Famous General Councils that ever were . This I am apt to think a very daring matter , and not rashly to be attempted . I have indeed been taught by our Blessed JESUS , that God will not forgive us , if we do not forgive our Brethren ; but I do not remember , where he hath taught me , that God will not SAVE us , except we believe that no man but a PAPIST can be SAVED . II. I have now consider'd s●●●e of the many Difficulties I am to struggle with , before I can get through to the Church of ROME . And truly they seem to me , whatever men of more strength and courage may think , little less than Insuperable . And yet after all this , if I may be convinced that the Authority of the ROMAN Church hath sufficient grounds of Scripture and Reason to support it , I must confess no Difficulty in my way ought to dishearten me from breaking through it . But then again , if I must believe that there is such an uncontrollable Power in the Church , in some One Church , in the ROMAN Church by name , yea , in the Bishop of that Church ; and if I must so believe this , that I must not leave in my Soul any room at all for the least Charitable thought of any man's Salvation , who believes it not : I think it no less than needful , that I have the Clearest and most undeniable Evidence in the World for what I believe , lest the Sentence of Condemnation should recoil upon my self for my Temerity and Uncharitableness . Indeed if this Church may be allow'd to bear witness to its own Authority , and such a Testimony be sufficient , I cannot want it . The Council of TRENT hath more than once call'd her , the Mother and Mistriss of all Churches . So Infallible in her Iudgment and Directions , so Absolute in her Dominion and Command she must be , that Her sole Authority must be warrant enough , and nothing else any warrant without it , for all things that belong to Christian Religion . Whosoever ( saith Becanus in his Compendium ) in matters of Faith and Religion followeth the true Church of Christ ( which he there proveth to be the Roman Church only ) cannot err about Faith and Religion , seeing the true Church of Christ is Infallible . And this we are told continually , as this Iesuit doth say , that this is the shortest Compendium of all Controversies . This then being to support the whole Fabrick of POPERY , had need to stand on firm ground . This ground I would now fain discover . Why then must we believe that the ROMAN Church hath this Sovereign Authority in Religion ? I must confess my self one of those sturdy Hereticks , that cannot believe without Reason . When I hear that Church telling me , she is Infallible , and hath all Power over all other Churches ; I cannot believe it till I have some better reason for it than this , That She must be all that , which She is pleased to say of her self ; and therefore must be Infallible and Omnipotent too , if She say it . And I am a little troubled to say , that this is all I can get out of her for my satisfaction , lest even PROTESTANTS should think I say incredible things of her , and that I have no other design , but to make all the Learned Men of her Communion seem ridiculous , in talking to us as to Children , always childishly . But it is not in my power , to make their Arguments better than they are ; nor Civil in me to teach them what to say ; and I am sure my Temporal Interest cannot at this time tempt me to oversee the strength of their Reasons . The very best Reasons I have yet met with , with how much Artifice and Sophistry soever they are dress'd up , amount to no more , nor better , in my opinion , than her own honest Word , that is , her own Authority and Infallibility for proof of her Authority and Infallibility ; and therefore I must either believe them both , before I can believe them , even whilst I am enquiring for a reason why I should believe them , or I must not believe them at all , nor with her consent be saved . The Missionaries tell us , they are willing to undergo any Pains or Difficulty to rescue us from damning Error ; and whilst they proceed in this Method , I have cause to believe them ; for I am confident , to prove their Church hath this Authority they contend for , is as great a Difficulty as they can meet with . If they should here offer us ( what is so much talk'd of by them ) the Testimony of the Universal Church , there is nothing more plain , than that they do but Mock us . For this can be nothing else but the Church of ROME's Testimony for her own Authority . It cannot , I say , be any thing else , because the thing they are proving is , That She alone is the One , Holy , Catholick and Apostolick Church : And were it any thing else , they would never discover it to us , because they would thereby give us an unanswerable Argument against what they would prove her to be ; for if they will shew us any other Church or Churches by the Testimony whereof Her Authority may be proved , we are thereby enabled to prove She is not the Only true Church out of which there is no Salvation . What then can this Testimony be ? Is it that of the First and purest Ages of the Church before POPERY was brought forth ? Not so to be sure , for POPERY was ( they say ) from the beginning , and glorieth of her Antiquity above all things . Is it the Testimony of all others in the World that profess Christianity ? It cannot be , for all these , if not of her Communion , are Hereticks , and in a state of Damnation for denying her Authority ; and were it possible for them to witness that to be which they deny to be , yet is their Testimony invalid , because they confess themselves Fallible , and this point of Faith cannot stand upon a fallible Testimony . By this 't is very clear to me , that the Testimony of the Catholick Church of Christ , if it be produced for the Authority of the Church of ROME , can be nothing else but the Church of ROME's own Word ; and I never doubted , but she hath a good word for her self , any more than I doubt lest it should be thought a good proof of her Authority . I have heard again much talk of Universal Tradition among ROMAM CATHOLICKS ; but if they alledg this for their Church's Authority , they give us only the same thing again in other Words . Universal Tradition can be nothing else but the Testimony of the Universal Church , and that must be the Church of ROME ; and so we are not advanced one step farther than we were before . The Credit we are to give unto Universal Tradition , depends on the Authority of the ROMAN Church , which we have not yet sound , but are enquiring after . If Fathers and Councils be brought in to Witness this Authority , all the noise they make will prove but the Voice of the ROMAN Church , crying her self up for the great Diana of the World , and thundring Anathema to all that will not fall down and worship her . Will she abide by the Testimony of either Father or Council , if they speak not what she has taught them , or against what she holds ? Or shall they be allow'd to over rule the Oral and Practical Tradition of the present Church of ROME ? Are Councils of any Credit more than the POPE's Confirmation gives them ? And are single Fathers of more Credit than they ? If not , we have yet no more but her own Word for her own Authority . If they bring us SCRIPTURE to prove this Authority , I must say , that as we reverence Fathers and Councils , so we adore ( with Tertullian ) the fulness of the SCRIPTURE , neither can we desire any better Proof , than its Testimony . Yet when I consider how these men use the SCRIPTURE ; I am at a stand to think , how they can in good earnest produce it as a Witness in this matter ; for after they have said almost all the ill they can of it , calling it imperfect , insufficient , obscure , unsens'd ; they seem to ridicule both it and us , when they bring it forth , thus disabled , for a Witness . Do not they tell us again and again , that both the Canon and the Sense of SCRIPTURE , depend , as to us , on the Authority and Interpretation of their Church ? And can its Testimony then possibly amount to any more than that Church's bare Word ? Do not they deny us a Iudgment of Discretion , whereby we should discern for ourselves , whether it speak fór or against their Church's Authority ? And will they yet produce it to convince us of the Authority by which alone we are both to receive and understand it ? It cannot be produced to convince us in our Iudgment , for we are not allow'd any use of our Iudgment in the Case . It must be only to convince themselves that we are Hereticks ; and I dare say , that may be done without the Scripture , as well as with it , whilst their Church must give the Sense of it . But because they know we magnify it , they will produce it , tho I cannot see to what other end , than to persuade us to take heed of trusting too much to it , or thinking it worth any thing , after it hath shew'd us the true Church . It must be believ'd no longer than it is authorized to speak by that Authority , which is to be proved by it ; so that by shewing us that Authority , it loseth all its own Authority for ever . For this ( saith Stapleton ) that God hath commanded us to believe the Church , we do not hang our Faith on the Authority of the Church , as upon the proper and sole cause of this Belief , but partly on manifest Scriptures , by which we are remitted to the teaching of the Church ; partly on the Creed , &c. This then is the end of producing the Scripture , that we may be convinced by it , that we are no longer to learn of it , after we are once brought by it to the knowledg of the Church's Authority , but thenceforward are to depend wholly upon the teaching of the Church , unto which it remits us . All the use then that we have of the Scripture , is to be guided by it to the Church of ROME ( tho it cannot do so much for us neither , but as that Church guides it ) ; and having thank'd it for its kindness , we are then to bid it good Night . Now seeing manifest Scriptures are promised us , to guide us to the ROMAN Church , I think it reasonable to expect , that they produce such Scriptures as are more manifest to us , than their Church's Authority , which is to be proved by them ; seeing it is by their Evidence I am to be convinced of that , which as yet is unevident to me . Neither ought the Sense of these manifest Scriptures depend upon the Interpretation or Authority of that Church , the Authority whereof they are brought to prove , as a thing to me not yet evident ; for so , I shall be still but where I was before ; and instead of manifest Scriptures , be shuffled off with the Church's bare Word ; I mean , with such Interpretations of Scripture , as I have no reason to receive , but by that Authority whereof I am yet , at least , in doubt . Now , that there are indeed no such manifest Scriptures , I am reasonably well assured before-hand . I have read the Scripture over and over , and find not the least mention therein made of this Authority of the ROMAN Church . The POPE of ROME , or his Supremacy , is never once named from the beginning of the Bible to the end ; nor can I meet with one Syllable touching either the Infallibility or Iurisdiction of Him , or his Councils , or of any kind of Subjection due to either , from all Christians . I cannot so much as find there , that ever there was any Bishop of ROME , or that there should be any there afterwards , much less that all Christians are to own that Bishop for their Head , and Christ's Vicar . And finding nothing of all this , I must needs wonder , how manifest Scriptures should be produced , to prove this Supreme Authority over all Churches . And yet , if there be such an Authority , and if it be so necessary for all Christians to believe it , and submit unto it ; I cannot but think that it ought to have been as manifestly declared in Scripture , as any other point whatsoever . St. Peter , in whom this Authority is said to have been first setled , saith not a word of it in his Epistles . St. Paul in his Epistle to the Romans ; who should in all reason have been best acquainted with it , says nothing at all of it . To the Civil Magistrate , which the Church of ROME makes to be much inferior to the Church in Authority , they both teach us our Duty ; and strange it is , if they knew of any such thing , that they should not as plainly instruct us in our Duty to the POPE or Church of ROME wherein our Salvation , the main thing they were to take care for , is so deeply concern'd . But what are these manifest Scriptures at length ? I find our Blessed Saviour saying to St. Peter ( Matt. 16. 18. ) Thou art Peter , and upon this Rock I will build my Church , and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it . And I will give unto thee the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven , &c. but I find not that all this , whatever it may signify , was manifestly said to the Bishops of ROME . The plain and obvious Sense ( saith Bellarmin ) of these words is , that we may understand the Primary of the whole Church to be promised to Saint Peter , under two Metaphors . And yet , by all the Light that he is able to afford me , I cannot discern in these words , whatever was promised to St. Peter , the Supremacy , much less the Monarchy of the Bishop of ROME over all Churches . And it is no wonder if a Protestant Heretick be so blind , when such eminent Persons as Origen , St. Austin , St. Hilary , Ambrose , Chrysostome and Cyril , could no more see it than I , as the learned Cardinal himself there confesseth . Nay , here 's not a word to assure us , that this Rock must needs be a Monarch invested with a Supremacy of Power over the whole Church , or that this Monarch must needs be the Bishop of ROME , or that the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against the ROMAN Church ; for all this , we must be beholden to that Church's own Word , or we shall never find it in this place . I find again , that Christ commanded St. Peter ( Joh. 21. 16. ) to feed his Sheep , and his Lambs ; as indeed it is the Duty of all Pastors of the Church to do ; and both St. Peter ( 1 Pet 5. 2. ) and St. Paul ( Acts 20. 28. ) tell us as much ; and so much the apter am I to doubt , whether the POPE be so much as a good Pastor of Christ's Sheep or no , seeing he takes so little care to Feed , and so much to Fleece them . I am sure I read of no more but one chief Shepherd , and Bishop of Souls , which St. Peter tells us , is Christ JESUS himself , 1 Pet. 2. 25. The Apostles were all Shepherds under Him ; but where is this manifest Scripture to shew that St. Peter was made Head-Shepherd , with Commission to Feed and Rule too , not only the Sheep , but the Shepherds also ? But especially , where is the Commission given to the Bishops of ROME successively for ever , to govern the whole Flock of Christ , with Soveraign Authority ? Feed the whole , I am sure he neither doth , nor can . Many great and wonderful things ( as Bellarmin tells us ) are said of St. Peter in the Holy Scripture , and very deservedly , for he was a very great and eminent Apostle . But the Scripture never saith , That he was a great Monarch , nor that he was Bishop of ROME , nor that he had a Throne , or but a Chair there ; and least of all , that this Imaginary Monarchy was to descend unto the next Bishop of ROME , and to his Successors for ever ; and that St. Iohn , who long out-lived St. Peter , became thereby subject to some of those Bishops , which did not well suit with the Dignity of an Apostle . I read those words of St. Paul , 1 Cor. 12. 21. The head cannot say to the feet , I have no need of you . But that the POPE is the Head , and all Christians , Kings , as well as others , the Feet ; I may possibly read in some such Iesuit as Bellarmin , but I am sure I shall never read it in the Scripture . Many more such parcels of Scripture as these , they give us ; but after the most serious perusal of them all , I profess I cannot find any thing like manifest Scripture for the Authority of the ROMAN Church . And therefore it seems yet as plain to me , as that Two and Three make Five , that the bare Word of that Church , without any kind of solid Proof , is all that she hath to shew for her Authority . She says great things of her self , and talks sometimes of Scripture , but much more of Fathers and Councils , and Universal Tradition , and indeed every thing that 's Venerable ; but when all is spell'd and put together , 't is but the Oral and Practical Tradition of the present Church , that is , her own very confident Asseveration . If we have a little Scripture for Fashion's sake , we must take it as she hath taught it to speak in her own Vulgar Latin , which the Council of TRENT was even then pleas'd to make the only Authentick Translation , when it was confessedly very faulty , and hath been since that divers times corrected . And then we must take it in her own Sense too , tho we know not well where we may be sure to find it . Her private Doctors she will not allow us to trust for it , nor indeed do we find them any better agreed about it , than others are , only they have for the most part either the Modesty or Cunning to refer all to the Iudgment of Mother Church , could they but tell us where to find it ; for she is loath , once for all , in some publick Comment , or Exposition of the Scripture , to tell us what it is . If we may be allow'd to hear the Testimony of the Fathers , she must stand at their Elbows , and prompt them what to say ; we must have them in her own approved Editions ; and if they have been at School long enough in the Vatican , or some Religious House , 't is probable they were reasonably well instructed in her own Language , before they were allow'd to go abroad again . However , ere they pass the Press , an Expurgatory Index can teach them either to Speak , or to be Silent , as she thinks most seasonable . Councils may be heard , but only such as have his Holiness's stamp upon them ; and how we can understand them any better than the Scripture , till he Interprets for us , is hard to say . So that all returns to this still , That we have her honest Word for her Authority ; and this is the sole Foundation , that I can discover of this prodigious Faith , which we must all have , or else perish eternally . III. And now , in the last place , seeing it is come to this , for ought I see , that I must rest upon her own Word , or nothing , for the Truth of her Sovereign Authority , and must upon peril of my own Damnation , take upon me this invidious Profession , to believe all men damn'd but PAPISTS , that I may enjoy the Blessing of my Mother ; I should be glad to know , that She her-self ( as Infallible as she is ) could but probably assure me , where this Word of her's may certainly be found . The REPRESENTER indeed ( in his confident way ) hath told me , That all the Members of his Religion ( however spread through the World ) agree like one man in every Article of their Faith. And if we would know for our learning , by what happy means this wonderful Agreement is effected , he tells us , It is by an equal Submission to the Determinations of their Church ; that is , as I understand it , by taking her bare Word for every thing . No one of them ( saith he ) tho the most learned and wise , ever following any other Rule in their Faith besides this , of unanimously believing as the Church of God ( or ROMAN Church ) believes . And if this be so , I wonder to what purpose their Learning and Wisdom can serve them , any more than their Iudgment and Wit , which they have renounced and deposed . However , if this be true Representing , I shall not , I hope , find it difficult to find out the Church's Word and Authority , on which my Faith must stand . Every Member of it , tho he have no more than the old Collier's Faith , can help me to it in any part of the World , for all agree like one Man in every Article , and therefore sure in this most fundamental one . But what now shall I think after this , if it should so fall out , that hardly one in a hundred of these Members know either where this Church of theirs is to be found , or what those Determinations of hers are , unto which they so unanimously submit ? Nay , what if their Church it self cannot tell them this ? When She hath said all She can , to inform both them and us , suppose it be still two to one , that we shall be mistaken in it , whatever we take to be the ROMAN Church , or her infallible Word ? This is it , that I am now , for a Close , to inquire into . It must needs seem more than a little absurd , and exceeding hard , to tye a man under pain of Damnation , to believe he knows not what , and what no body can certainly shew him ; I mean , a Power in the Church of ROME , which all men deny , but they of her Communion ; and about which , even they who are of her Communion , are so divided among themselves , that I do not see how ever they can agree about it . Is there no Dispute in that Church about this Power ? Have they not been even at Daggers drawing among themselves about it ? Is the Controversie yet decided ? Or can any one promise me that it ever shall ? There is a great Diversity among the Schoolmen ( saith our REPRESENTER ) in their Divinity-Points , and Opinions of such matters as are no Articles of Faith , and have no relation to it , but as some Circumstance or Manner , which being never defined by the Church , may be maintain'd severally , either this way , or that way , without any breach of Faith , or injury to their Religion . I will not stay here to ask him , what greater diversity he can find amongst the Members of our Church , than he here grants to be amongst PAPISTS ; nor why our Divisions being no greater than theirs , nor more nearly related to any Article of Faith , should be less consistent with the Unity of the Church ( as is commonly objected against us ) than theirs are : But I ask , whether the Supreme Authority of the ROMAN Church , be an Article of the ROMAN Faith , or no ? And again , whether all the Members of that Church , be as one man unanimously agreed about it , or no ? He will say , it may be , about the Article they are , as to the Substance of it , tho not as to all Circumstances : But now if it appear , that these Circumstances of the Power about which they differ , are such as the thing it self will be as good as nothing without them ; or if they be not as certainly known and believ'd , as the Power it self , I think it will follow , that all their agreement about the Thing , is as good as nothing too , till these Circumstances be also agreed upon . Thus it is then ; I must for my Salvation believe that , there is such a thing as a Supreme Power over all Churches , in the Church of ROME ; and in this all PAPISTS as one man unanimously agree ; but about the Circumstances of this Power , there is a great diversity of Opinions among them ; yet is this no injury to their Religion . Tho without a better agreement about these Circumstances , no man ( in my opinion ) can be able to satisfie me , what their Religion is ; for these Circumstances about which they differ , are no more but such inconsiderable things as these , Whence this Power is ; whether it be of God , or of Men ; of Divine or Human Right only ; whether it extends over all the World , or over all Christians only ; to Spiritual concerns only , or to Temporals also ; where it resides and is lodg'd ; in the Church-Diffusive , or all Christians , especially the Pastors ; or in the Church-Representative , or General Councils ; or in the Church Virtual , or the POPE of ROME . These petty Circumstances they differ about , and the Church it self knows not how to agree them ; but what 's all this to the Article it self , most firmly believ'd by all , that is , a Supreme Power in the Church ? All their Religion rests on the Determinations of their Church ; all the force of these Determinations to oblige the Faith of men , depend on this Supreme Power ; May not a man , however , well enough be assured of his Religion , tho no man can tell him , Whence this Power is , Over what it is , or Where it is ? Indeed , what other men can do , I know not ; but for my own part , I must needs think it a very hard matter to believe this Power , and to have any certainty of the Religion founded on this Power , without some better Information about these Circumstances of it ; and therefore before I can yield to be of that Religion , I must beseech that Church , which will not allow us to be saved , without an absolute Submission and Resignation of our selves to her Authority , to tell us , if not Whence ( which is yet the most material Circumstance of all the rest ) yet , at least , What and Where it is . There is challeng'd by this Church , a Power of over-ruling our Faith by her Infallible Iudgment , and a Power of commanding our Obedience by her Soveraignty . It will therefore concern me to ask , How I may be rightly inform'd in both these great branches of her Power , unto which my subjection is required upon pain of Damnation . 1. She claims a Power of Interpreting or giving the certain Sense of Scripture , of Iudging and finally Deciding all Controversies of Religion , of peremptorily Defining and Determining in all matters of Faith and Religious Practice ; so that all are bound , without any further dispute or search , to submit to all her Determinations and Decrees . INFALLIBLE then , we must believe this Church to be , and that she cannot Err in her Definitions of Faith and Manners : And yet where this INFALLIBILITY is to be found , is a Question she is not to this day able to resolve : In short , I find that this Infallible Church , which tells us that she cannot Err , when she is desired to make this apparent to the World , can tell us certainly , both How , and in What she can Err ; and in this I doubt not , but she is Infallible enough ; but who they are in all her Communion , or in what things it is , that they cannot err , this she could never tell us certainly , and yet it is this alone that can make her Infallibility , ( if she have it ) to be of any use to us . The REPRESENTER saith , That the PAPIST believes that the Pastors and Prelates of his Church , are Fallible ; that there is none of them ( and yet the POPE is one of them , and COUNCILS are made up of them ) but may fall into Errors , Heresy and Schism , and consequently are subject to mistakes . And further he tells us , That tho some allow the POPE the assistance of a Divine Infallibility , without being in a General Council ; yet he is satisfied 't is only their Opinion , and not their Faith , there being no obligation from the Church , of assenting to any such Doctrine . And tho he maintain the Necessity and Right of General Councils lawfully Assembled , yet is it not so plain , whether he count them infallible or no , by what he says in that Chapter of Councils . This we are told , That if any thing contrary to what Christ taught , and his Apostles , should be defined and commanded to be believed , even by ten thousand Councils , he believes it damnable in any one to receive it . But in the following Chapter , he speaks out , and says , That by the Assistance of the Holy Ghost , they are specially protected from all Error , in all Definitions and Declarations in matters of Faith : And this is true , tho he grants it possible , that the Pastors and Prelates there assembled , may be proud , ignorant , covetous , enormous sinners , and infamous for other vices , and at other times may prevaricate , make Innovations in Faith , and teach erroneous Doctrines . Now a man would think , That if all the Guides and Pastors of the Flock ( not one excepted ) may err , then the Sheep , which are bound to follow their Shepherds , may err also ; and if the Fallible lead the Fallible , 't is not impossible for both to err ; and who it is that is infallible , is hard to see . And again , seeing he tells us , That Christ committed the care of his Flock to St. Peter , and that the POPE or Bishop of Rome is in this charge , St. Peter ' s Successor , and that God assists those who have this charge , with a particular helping Grace , such as has a special respect to the Office and Function , and that such as was given to the Prophets , and to Moses , when he was made a God to Pharoah . I cannot see , but it must be as consequent to all this , that the POPE should be Infallible , as that a General Council is so , especially when it is his Approbation that gives force to its Decrees . Moreover , it is not easy to believe that God hath made a promise of Infallible Assistance to any number of Pastors and Prelates , who are no better qualified , than he supposes they may most of them be , with Pride , Ignorance , and Vice , Turbulence and Covetousness , and assembled , it may be , under an Heretical Pope , ( for such , 't is granted he may be ) and as vicious too , and ignorant as any of them . However , there are two things which make it very hard to find out this Infalliblility , where he sends us to seek it , in a General Council : For first , they must be lawfully assembled ; and next , they must determine nothing contrary to what Christ and his Apostles taught , otherwise 't is damnable to receive their Determinations . Now it will be hard for me to find out how lawfully they were assembled , and therefore as hard to believe all their Decrees as Infallible ; and , I fear , I must not be allow'd to examine their Definitions , whether they be according to the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles , or no , lest I thereby seem to follow my own private Iudgment or Spirit , rather than the Infallible Iudgment of the Church Representative . This is all then that I can learn from his Discourse ; I must take it for a Truth , that this Infallibility is lodg'd in a General Council , and that it can determine nothing contrary to the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles ; and then I need not inquire whether it have done so , or no ; tho if it have done so , 't is damnable for me to receive its Determinations . But I will hear what others tell me . Bellarmin saith , That all Catholicks are thus far agreed , That the POPE , as he is POPE , in the midst of his Councellors , or together with a General COUNCIL , may Err , or Iudg amiss in matters of Fact. And if this be true , he may even so err in the whole Faith , as far as I can yet see ; for he may thus err in determining that there were such Men as Christ and his Apostles ; that any of them Preached , planted Churches , writ Books ; that these are their Books , or that St. Peter was at ROME , and was Bishop there ; left the Bishops of that See his Successors in all his Power ; that there hath been an uninterrupted Succession of Bishops in that Church ; that any unwritten Traditions concerning Faith and Manners were left to the Custody of the Church ; and many more such things , which were matters of Fact , and on which the Faith of that Church depends . Again he saith , That the POPE , as a private Doctor , may Err , even through Ignorance , in matters both of Faith and Manners . And thus the Church , whether Virtual or Representative , may err . But I would fain hear , wherein she cannot Err , and whether all Catholicks are agreed as well in that . The famous Chancellor of Paris , Gerson , Almain , Alphonsus a Castro , the Parisian Doctors , yea , and no less man than P. ADRIAN the VI th ( saith the same Author ) have taught , That the POPE , as he is POPE , may be a Heretick , and teach Heresy , when he desineth any thing without a General COUNCIL . And truly , If as a Man he may be a Heretick , I see no reason why he may not be so as a POPE , for I take the Man and the POPE to be here both one . But further , these last named will have this Infallibility or Iudgment to be in the Council , and not in the POPE . And Bellarmin tells us , That this Opinion is not properly Heretical , and for this good Reason ( which if it should not hold , they would lose a great part of their Church ) because they that hold it , are tollerated in the Church ; yet it seems erroneous , and next a kin to Heresie . It should seem by this , that an Error tollerated by the Church of ROME , is no Heresie ; but if not tollerated , it is . Indeed I know not well how ever she can Err Heretically at this rate , unless she will grow so unkind to her self , as not to tollerate her own Errors . The same Iesuit tells us again , That it was the Opinion of Albertus Pighius , ( and whether he was singular in it , or no , I shall not now ask ) That the POPE can by no means be a Heretick , or teach Heresie publickly , altho himself alone define any thing without a Council . And this Opinion he acknowledges to be probable , yet not certain . But I think 't is very certain that POPES have been Hereticks , either as condemned by , or condemning one another for Heresie . Lastly ( he saith ) the most common Opinion , and that for which he brings a multitute of Authors , is this , That whether the POPE can be a Heretick or no , yet he cannot any way define any Heretical thing to be believ'd by the whole Church . This he calls the most sure Opinion , tho they who are of it , seem not very well agreed among themselves about it : For some of them say simply , The POPE cannot err : Others speak it with this limitation , Proceeding maturely with the advice of his Council . But now , suppose he should be too hasty , and define something rashly of his own head ; Oh! That cannot be , ( saith Bellarmin ) for God will not suffer it . And yet I wish he could tell us , Why God may not as well suffer an Heretical POPE to define rashly , or indeed rather deliberately , according to his own Heretical Iudgment , as suffer him , to whom he hath committed the Charge of the whole Flock , to fall into Heresie . However , considering this variety of Opinions in the Church of Rome , concerning this Infallible Iudg , to which all must be subject in Matters of Religion , I begin to think with my self , with what satisfaction of Conscience I shall be able to live in that Communion . I must obey the Infallible Iudg , or else be damn'd : And who is this Infallible Iudg whom I must obey ? It is the Church of ROME ; this all can tell me with one consent ; but tho this were true , yet am I no wiser for it ; that whole Church never yet met to Iudg or Determine of any thing . Who is it then in this Church , to whose Iudgment I must submit ? It is the POPE alone , say some ; and yet these some are not agreed , whether he may not define some things rashly , without due advice , at least , when he is a Heretick , as some Popes have been , if Popes themselves may be believed ; and it seems not impossible , that an Heretick , obstinate in Error , may define something rashly and unadvisedly . It is not the POPE , but a General COUNCIL , say others ; and why these deserve not as much credit as the former , I know not ; for they are tolerated by the Church , and surely the Infallible Church will not for shame tolerate any dangerous Error . 'T is neither the One nor the Other , saith a Third Party , but a POPE in COUNCIL , or a COUNCIL confirm'd by a POPE ; and yet whether the Determinations of such a Church-Representative be of full virtue , till they have been universally receiv'd , is made a Question by a Fourth Party . Where are we now , after all this , to seek our Infallible Iudg ? Suppose a COUNCIL should define it as a matter of Faith , that the POPE himself is subject to a COUNCIL ; and again , that a POPE , yea a POPE in COUNCIL define the contrary , that the COUNCIL is subject to the POPE . This is no idle Supposition of an impossible or unlikely thing ; for whosoever knows what was done in the Councils of CONSTANCE and BASIL , consisting of as many Patriarchs , Archbishops and Bishops , as most of the Councils ever did ; and again , what afterwards pass'd in the Councils of FLORENCE , and the LATERAN , under P. LEO the X th , must know that such a thing , at least , once came to pass . Suppose then this which once was , and if the POPE could endure to think of a Free Council , might be again ; what should I have to ground any certain Faith upon ? I must still under Pain of Damnation , submit my Faith to the Iudgment of the Church . It is not , neither I believe ever will or can be agreed upon , which is the Iudgment of the Church , that of the COUNCIL , or this of the POPE , or the other of POPE and COUNCIL . The Contest is between those that will admit of no Iudg , and therefore of no Decision . Their Determinations already extant , are directly contrary one to another , yet both pretended to be of Faith. That both cannot be so , is plain ; and it may be neither is so . And whether the one or neither be so , if I would determine for my self , I make my self the Iudg of the Church's Definitions , even of those to which I must submit my Iudgment , or be damn'd . The other Branch of Power claim'd by this Church , is that of giving Laws to all Christians , unto which all that will be saved , must yield Obedience . About this I find no better Agreement among them , than about the former . There is so great a dispute among the Doctors ( saith one of them ) about the fulness of Ecclesiastical Power , and unto what things it extends it self , that in this matter few things are secure . Yet that such a Power there is , we must believe , or perish , tho none can certainly tell us what kind of Power it is , whether purely Spiritual , or Temporal also . And an Universal Power it must be , tho we cannot learn how far it reacheth , whether to all , or but some , either things or persons . It is held by many ( saith Bell. ) that the POPE hath by Divine Right , a most full Power over the whole World , in Matters both Ecclesiastical and Civil . And for this Opinion , he names Augustinus Triumphus , Alvarus , Pelagius , Panormitan , and others ; with whom their Angelical Doctor , Thomas of Aquine seems to consent ; In the POPE ( saith he ) is the Top-height of both Powers . Others say , That the POPE , as POPE , hath no Temporal Power at at all , neither can any way command Secular Princes , or deprive them of their Kingdoms and Principalities , tho otherwise they deserve to be deprived of them . For this Opinion , he names not so much as one of their own Communion ; why , I know not , unless it were , because he knew it to be an Opinion very unwelcome at ROME ; or because he thought there were but a few inconsiderable PAPISTS that held it . And therefore he fathers it upon the Hereticks , whose Loyalty to their Princes will better bear it . The REPRESENTER here tells us , He knows that the Deposing and King-killing Power has been maintained by some Canonists and Divines of his Church , and that it is in their Opinion lawful , and annex'd to the Papal Chair . And that some Popes have endeavour'd to act according to this Power . Yet is he not willing that Hereticks of any sort , should carry away the Honour , which Bellarmin bestow'd upon them , of a Loyal Religion ; but saith , That there are of his Communion three times the number , that publickly disown all such Authority ; that some Universities and Provincial Councils , have condemn'd it ; and that Popish Princes sit as safe on their Thrones , as others . Yea , and he will engage , that all Catholick Nations in the World , shall subscribe to the Condemnation of all such Popish Principles and Doctrines , and shall join with all good Protestants for the extinguishing them , with all that profess and practice them , and utter rooting them out of his Majesties three Kingdoms , and the whole Universe . I must do him right , notwithstanding all this ; for he hath not said , That the whole Church of ROME , or any General Council hath condemn'd this Doctrine ; or that it is by publick Authority , for the offence it gives , rased out of the Canon-Law , nor the LATERAN Council ; nor that Protestant Princes can sit as safely in Popish Countries , as Popish Princes may in Protestant Countries . And when he tells us , That the Sentence of the Supreme Pastor is to be obey'd , whether he be Infallible or no ; altho I have a great Opinion of the Loyalty of many PAPISTS , I durst hardly engage for his , if there should chance to be such a POPE again , as himself confesseth some have been . But what saith Bellarmin ? A third sort there is , that takes a middle way ; and he names not a few of them , himself being one of the number . These hold , that the POPE , as POPE , hath indeed no Temporal Power directly and immediately , but Spiritually only . And such as he makes it , there needs no more ; for it will serve his Holiness as well , and the Hereticks as ill , to all intents and purposes , yea even to the deposing of Princes , as the greatest Temporal Power in the World. For ( saith he ) by reason of this Spiritual , he hath also , at least indirectly , a Temporal Power , and that no less than the highest . And even as the Spirit or Soul hath Power over the Flesh , to Chastise , and even to deliver it up to Death , in order to the Spiritual ends of the Soul : So also may the POPE , tho not as an ordinary Iudg , yet as an extraordinary , in order to spiritual Ends , change Kingdoms , taking them from one , and giving them to another , abrogate the Civil Laws of Princes , and determine of their Rights . This I am sure is more than ever St. Peter had by Virtue , either of the Rock , or Keys , or Pastoral Staff ; and I am confident , he never thought of half this , when he charged all Men to submit to the King as SUPREME , 1 Pet. 2. 13. Nor when , v. 17. bidding us Honour all Men , love the Brotherhood , fear God , honour the King ; he omitted to mind us of the great Duty of all , the Subjection we must yield to his Successors , the Bishops of ROME ; especially , when he might well suppose we should have been much apter to have learn'd it of himself , than of any of his Successors . 'T is time for me now , I think , to consider , into what a Labyrinth I must run my self , by going over to the Church of ROME ; and how I can behave my self , when I come there . I am going into a Church , out of which , I am told , there is no Salvation ; yet I cannot foresee , that this Church her self can tell me surely , how I may be saved in it . Of this Church , I am told , I cannot be a Member to any purpose , if I be not in all things Subject and Obedient to the Supreme Head of it , the POPE . And subject to him I cannot be , if I actively obey not his Commands ; for passive Obedience is now become the despised Badg of a Heretick . But what the POPE's Power to command is , I can meet with no Body that can certainly inform me . It is an absolute Power over all the World , say some . No , ( say others ) but only over Christians , and in things Spiritual . Well , ( says the third Party ) tho it be directly and immediately only Spiritual , yet it is no less for that ; but in order to Spirituals , it reacheth over all , both Temporal Persons , Laws and Iudgments . All this Power is in me only , saith the POPE . You are too hasty , Sir , say some Councils , and the Doctors of France ; for the chief Power is by Christ himself given to the Council , and even to put down and set up POPES , as they would deal with Kings and Emperors . Which of these now must I believe and obey ? The Prince , under whose Government I live , may command me one thing ; and the POPE , my Spiritual Father , may command the contrary . How must I now do to bear my self evenly betwixt two such Masters ? I consult my Spiritual Guides , and take the best Advice I can get ; some say one thing , and some another ; and which to believe , I stand in need of another Guide to direct me ; nay , the Church it self , knew I where to find her , ( so visible is She ) could not tell me which is in the right . If I believe those , who tell me the POPE has no Power in Temporal matters ; then is my Prince in all such Matters to be obey'd , say the POPE what he will to the contrary . If I hearken to them , that tell me the POPE has a fulness of Power in all , both Temporal and Spiritual matters ; I must obey my Prince in nothing without the POPE's leave . If I listen to them , who say , The POPE's Power in Temporal matters , is indeed the highest Power ; yet indirectly only , and in order to Spiritual ends , then am I so far to obey it , and no farther . And here I am at as great a loss as ever ; for who shall judg for me , whether his Commands be needful for Spiritual ends or no ? It is very unlikely , that my Prince and the Pope should agree in the Determination of this Point ; and the difference being between them two , and their Commands , to whose award will they stand ? I must here necessarily be left to the Direction of my own , or some other private Iudgment , and which side soever I take , it is an even Wager whether I can be saved . I have been considering all this while for my self alone , and the satisfaction of my own Conscience . I presume not to judg for , nor of others . They who have more Light , and better Eyes , may go on more confidently ; 't is all my care , to go safely for my self ; and as inoffensively as I can to all others . I see many Wise men among ROMAN-CATHOLICKS , and I dare not say the contrary , but that they are of another Religion than I , because they are Wiser , and better able to chuse than I. If I chuse as wisely as I can for my self , I cannot do any better for my self , and I doubt not of being saved whilst I do so well . And if it should prove so , that I chuse the worse , he hath no reason to be angry with me , to whom I leave , and do not grudg the better . I cannot yet think it necessary to Salvation , to believe that Church Infallible , which not only in my opinion but in the Iudgment of all other Christians , ( and they are 〈…〉 and more ) hath often Erred , and doth very grosy 〈◊〉 many things ; and which , if we ask her , can her s●lf only tell us , who they be in her Communion , that can Err , but not who they be , that cannot . Nor can I think it safe to be of that Church , where I may not be allow'd to judg or try whether Error be taught me or no. I cannot think I am bound to Judg either my self or others in a state of Damnation , for not denying our Senses , or captivating our Iudgments to the Iudgment of an Infallible Church , which could never determine where her Iudgment or Infallibility is certainly to be found : Or for not obeying the Head of that Church , which hath sometimes no Head , sometimes many Heads , and is always uncertain which is her Head , or where it stands . If I must thus believe , and thus obey , no body can tell me what , and declare I do all this , or in the Judgment of that Church which must be believ'd Infallible , be no better for turning PAPIST ; then I verily think I am much safer , as I am a poor PROTESTANT . I am sure I may as safely , as I can freely , captivate my Iudgment both in Faith and Practice , to the Doctrine and Laws of the Blessed JESUS , whom all Christians unanimously acknowledg both the SUPREME and INFALLIBLE HEAD of the Universal Church . I will no longer lose my labour , in seeking an Infallible Guide , which almost every body can tell me of , but no man can certainly shew me . Instead of an Ecclesiastical Monarch on E●●●h , I will content my self with that Blessed and only Potentate , King of kings , and Lord of lords , whom his Father hath made Sole HEAD of the CHURCH , which is his Body ; who long since told us , that his Kingdom is not of this World , as , I fear , the POPE's too much is . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A39265-e240 * De verb. Dei. l. 1. c. 1. Tertul. de Praesct . c. 25. Iren. cont . Haer. l. 3. c. 2. Tert. adv . Hermog . c. 22. Iren. l. 3. c. 1. Aug. l. 2. cont . Donat . Pap. Repr . p. 35. Ibid. p. 37 , 38. Bel. de Eccles . l. 3. c. 5. Bonacin . de Lensur . D. 2. q. 5. p. 1. from Vasquez and others . Tol. Instruct . Sacerd . l. 4. c. 3. Instr. Sacerd . l. 1 ▪ c. 18. Prefat de Rom. Pontif. Stapleton Tripl . c. 15. De Rom. Pont. l. 1. c. 10. Almain . de Auth. Eccles. c. 3.