a just apologie for the church of duckenfield in cheshire against certain slanderous reports received by mr. edwards his overmuch credulite of what may tend to the reproach of those that differ from himselfe in judgement (though but concerning matters meerly of externall order, and things of inferior ally to the substantiall doctrines of faith, and manners) rashly and without further examination of the truth of them, (together with an overplus of his own censures, and uncharitable animadversions) divulged by himselfe in a !--- book of his, intituled, the third part of gangræna / by samuel eaton, teacher & timothy taylor, pastour of the church of god at duckerfeild ; whereunto also is annexed a letter of a godly minister, mr. henry rootes ... in vindication of himselfe against a sinister and dangerous (yet false and groundlesse) insinuation, contained in the copie of a letter out of yorkshire, sent unto the aforesaid mr. edwards, and by him published to the kingdome. eaton, samuel, ?- . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing e ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing e estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a just apologie for the church of duckenfield in cheshire against certain slanderous reports received by mr. edwards his overmuch credulite of what may tend to the reproach of those that differ from himselfe in judgement (though but concerning matters meerly of externall order, and things of inferior ally to the substantiall doctrines of faith, and manners) rashly and without further examination of the truth of them, (together with an overplus of his own censures, and uncharitable animadversions) divulged by himselfe in a !--- book of his, intituled, the third part of gangræna / by samuel eaton, teacher & timothy taylor, pastour of the church of god at duckerfeild ; whereunto also is annexed a letter of a godly minister, mr. henry rootes ... in vindication of himselfe against a sinister and dangerous (yet false and groundlesse) insinuation, contained in the copie of a letter out of yorkshire, sent unto the aforesaid mr. edwards, and by him published to the kingdome. eaton, samuel, ?- . taylor, timothy, or - . [ ], p. printed by m.s. for henry overton, and are to be sold at his shop ..., london : . reproduction of original in cambridge university library. eng edwards, thomas, - . -- gangraena. -- part . rootes, henry. church polity. sects -- great britain -- controversial literature. great britain -- church history -- th century. a r (wing e ). civilwar no a just apologie for the church of duckenfeild in cheshire: against certain slanderous reports received by mr. edwards his overmuch creduliti eaton, samuel c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - taryn hakala sampled and proofread - taryn hakala text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a just apologie for the church of duckenfeild in cheshire : against certain slanderous reports received by mr. edwards his overmuch credulitie of what may tend to the reproach of those that differ from himselfe in judgement ( though but concerning matters meerly of externall order , and things of inferior alloy to the substantiall doctrines of faith , and manners ) rashly and without further examination of the truth of them , ( together with an overplus of his own censures , and uncharitable animadversions ) divulged by himselfe in a late book of his , intituled , the third part of gangraena . by samuel eaton , teacher & timothy taylor , pastour of the church of god at duckenfeild . whereunto also is annexed a letter of a godly minister , mr henry rootes , pastour of the church of sowerbie in yorkshire , in vindication of himselfe against a sinister and dangerous ( yet false and groundlesse ) insinuation , contained in the copie of a letter out of yorkshire , sent unto the aforesaid mr. edwards , and by him published to the kingdome . cor. . . by honour and dishonour , by evill report , and good report , as deceivers , and yet true . luk. . . in your patience possesse yee your soules . adeo satis idoneus patientiae sequester deus ▪ si iniuriam deposueris , penes eum ultor est ; si damnum , restitutor , si dolorem , medicus , &c. tertul. london ; printed by m. s. for henry overton , and are to be sold at his shop in popes-head-alley . . to the christian reader ; grace and peace be multiplied . christian reader ; the apostle paul exhorts titus , to speake sound words in doctrine , that cannot be condemned ; and there is a proportionable equitie , that all men ( ministers especially ) should write and print sound words , that cannot be condemned . if mr. edwards had kept himselfe to this rule , our labour at this time might have been spared . our work in this narrative , is to rectifie his errours . he hath led many from the truth , so farre as concernes duckenfeild church ( for saving that there is an epistle of our brother roots annexed , there is nothing els medled with in this apologie ) and our undertaking is to reduce them to the truth . should we suffer all to passe for truth , which he publisheth concerning us , wee should betray the truth , and our own innocency . these faults may be justly charged upon him from the way he takes of blazoning the supposed failings of all other men , that differ from him , though but in the most controverted , dim , and disputable points ; and instances may be given ( if need require ) in passages that relate to us , and our church . first , he hath abroad in the kingdome factors that trade for him in the good names , and reputations of precious men , and orderly walking churches , ( who are not inferiour to the very chiefest of his presbyterians , whether men , or churches , though they be nothing ) which they and he sell over to be mancipated to infamy and disgrace , for supposed crimes falsly suggested against them by himselfe , and his creatures . secondly , he takes reports ( especially flowing ( as it is said ) from godly persons ) upon trust , and without any further examination , or inquisition after the truth of them , issues them abroad ( with a great measure of confidence ) into the kingdome , as if so be , his supposed godly persons , were arrived at an absolute incapacitie of hearing an untruth , and when they have heard it , reporting it for a truth . thirdly , he doth not consider that that malignant spirit , that in all preceding ages of the church hath bent mens tongues for lies , and slanders , against the saints of the most high god , is most industriously active at this day to render those men odious , whose conversation imports strictnesse of a more then ordinary elevation in the wayes of god . so that it is no securitie against the perill of false witnesse-bearing against the people of god , to say , such a godly man told me so ; especially when that that godly man was neither an eye , nor eare-witnesse of the thing , nor hath trac'd the report upward from man to man , to the first reporter , who had need to be godly , and an eye or eare-witnesse of the thing . our selves can speake experimentally of the failings of divers presbyterians formerly , whom we judged godly , that have taken up things against us by heare-say , for which they have seene cause afterwards to be ashamed ; which we desire rather to cover with the mantle of brotherly love , then like flies to fall upon their sores , and unnecessarily to uncover their nakednesse , and rake in their infirmities , as mr. edwards professedly deales with us . fourthly , mr. edwards runs the more desperate adventure , to split his reputation , and wound his conscience upon the innocency of traduced saints , because he takes not onely the testimony of one ingaged party against the other , but even of the most precipitate , fiery spirits of that partie , the strength of whose phansie is enough to multiply a mole-hill of srailtie in the saints , into a mountaine of obstinary ; yea , can make things that are not , appeare as though they were . and yet if the case were altered , mr. edwards possibly would thinke the testimonies of twenty of those whom he calls sectaries , incompetent to take away the good name of one godly presbyterian . fistly , the irregularitie of mr. edwards his proceeding , is the more inexcusable in this , that whereas there should be two or three witnesses for the confirmation of every matter , that is not of notorious cognizance ; and whereas the accused ought to come face to face before the accusers : mr. edwards publisheth things of a private nature , upon the bare report of some one man , who is not in the capacitie of being a competent witnesse in that matter whereof he is the relator . and so the good names of innocent , and some of them eminent persons in the kingdome , come to be blasted by the misprision of his supercilious , and unhallowed pen . instance pag. . in what is related concerning two gentlemen , persons of great worth and honour . sixtly , adde to this , that the impatience of his zeale in defaming the servants of god , holds no correspondence with principles of common prudence . for who but mr. edwards , knowing that the deacon of duckingfeild , pag. . was speedily to be brought upon the stage before the civill power , would not have expected the issues of his aay of audience , rather then by an hastie anticipation pre-judge ( as in his marginall note he doth ) a person not yet heard nor condemned by the civill state . and indeed a little patience ( comparatively to much ) might have served the turne . for not long after mr. thomas smith , bookseller of manchester , [ who ( as we coneeive ) was both mr. edwards intelligencer , and soone after the deacons accuser ] had a faire , and free hearing , before the committee against the deacon . yet the committee found not him guiltie of the supposed knavery in couzening the state , the discovery whereof was prophecied in the letter of august . . published by mr. edwards , but dismissed him from their board without any censure . would mr. smith have thought it well , and if he should have approved of it , yet wee could not have avoyded the regreet of our own consciences , when he being nominated for an elder of manchester , and accusation upon accusation from parts nearer and more remote , were brought in against him , if wee should have writ up to london , that ere long mr. smiths knavery would be discovered , and such a one as he , is a fit man to be an elder in a presbyterian church ; even then when the businesse was depending , and unproved before the triars ? seventhly , nor can it well be omitted , ( and as little justified ) that from one act ( and that injuriously represented ) a judgement should be made upon a person ; a gentleman of worth must passe under the name of a great zelot for independents , from the evidence of one false instance , which is given in to prove it . would mr. edwards be well pleased to have such measure measured unto himselfe againe , and that because there are some slanderous reports published in mr. edwards booke , therefore the whole booke is a booke of slanders ? eightly and lastly , the scope and drift of mr. edwards is , to make the world beleeve , that such as those sectaries ( so by him called ) are , whose personall failings he divulgeth , such are ( or at least in time are like to be ) all that are of that sect respectively . now if the sectaries ( so called ) were baptized into the same uncharitable spirit , and would whet their style against the personall faults of presbyterians , with a desire to charge all upon the professors of that way , doubtlesse the volumes that might be written , would be far more voluminous then a compleat decade of gangraena's . as for thee ( christian reader ) wee hope we shall easily obtaine so much justice at thy hands , as not to be measured by mr. edwards reed ; but such as our doctrine , manner of life , patience , peaceablenesse , painfulnesse , are , ( be they more or lesse ) such let us be in the ballance of thy estimation . wee are abundantly sensible of the growth and increase of errours and heresies in the kingdome ; wee desire according to the measure of grace received , to pray against them , fast against them ; wee labour in the course of our ministry by preaching against them ; and as god gives us opportunitie in disputation , we labour to beat them downe ; and we trust god in his own time will dispel them . the premises are sufficient for thy premonition , not to take all for truth , that mr. edwards , or any other in this calumniatory age , shall rashly and uncharitably broach against any godly man , whether of the classicall or congregationall way . but first to try and trace reports , importing scandall to the fountaines of them , their first broachers ; by this meanes a great deale of uncharitable misprision will be prevented , and thou wilt have no occasion to mourne at the last . wee remaine thine , whilst thou art a friend to truth , samuel eaton , timothy taylor . a just apologie for the church of duckenfeild . master edwards amongst many other letters , and relations , which have been sent him from all parts of the kingdome , hath received ( it seemes ) some from the northerne parts , from lancashire , and cheshire : and in some of them there are passages that reflect upon the church of duckenfeild , and the officers thereof , with reproach and scorne , with falshood and slander ; and where any truth is , it is with an injurious intent manifested . we shall direct to the pages , transcribe the substance of the words , and make answer thereto . in pag. ● ▪ are these words ; mr. eaton , of whose activity to promote that way , ( that is , th●●ongregationall , which is the truely-so called presbyteriall way ) i doubt not you have heard , hath been the great apostle to promote their designe in these parts . answ. it may be a great question whether scoffing or irrationalitie be the 〈◊〉 predominant in this invective charge ▪ for it is without all bottom , unlesse activitie ( which he onely mentions ) he the bottom of it . and then all the clergie in lancashire are great apostles ; for he calls them pag. . an active clergie , that is , in promoting the presbyterian designe . and this is all the reason mr. edwards can shew , of inserting mr. eatons name among the principall independents and sectaries in his booke . but how comes it about , that mr. eaton is the great apostle in this place , who pag. . is but a pastor or teacher of the church of duckenfeild ? if mr. eaton be the grat apostle , who are teh lesser ? wee had thought among the apostles there had not been greater , and lesser . if he be the great apostle , what , or who are they that have sent him ? they must doubtlesse be greater then apostles ; for greater is he that doth send , then he that is sent . if he promote designes as an apostle , then the designes are preaching of the gospel up and downe , and gathering of churches , &c. now apostolicall preaching of the gospell in all places up and downe the countrey , is a good designe , especially at this time , when there is such want of preaching . but this designe , mr. eaton could not heretofore , nor can at this day attend upon , being a prefixed officer at duckenfeild , as is acknowledged pag. . and as for the designe of gathering churches , ( which is an apostles worke ) what one church hath mr. eaton gathered ? true it is , that he , with many others , wearied out with the long want of some of gods ordinances , and with corruption in other of gods ordinances , did at length ( for their better spirituall accommodation ) joyne together in fellowship , that they might injoy all gods ordinances . yet herein he no more gathered them , with whom he joyned , then they him . but be it that he promotes these designes , yet sithence these designes are of no worser import and contemplation then they are , neither they that sent him , ( if any such there be ) nor he that is sent , have cause to be ashamed . but his activitie is great . and wherein appeares this his great activitie , unlesse it be in entertaining now and then one call of many , to preach a sermon abroad , as occasions will permit ? or unlesse it be that in defence of the way he professeth , he answereth some of the many challenges brethren make in opposition against it . in which also he is rarely ingaged alone , and lesse active then his opponents shew themselves to be . in pag. . the extract of a letter written from the northerne parts , speakes thus ; i shall hereafter give you a particular account of the church of duckenfeild . answ. it had been safer for the author of this letter to look into his own heart , and see what is amisse there , that he may be able to give a particular account to god of all his wayes , when he shall be called thereto ; then to spend his time in observing duckenfeild , and medling with account of things that concern him not . is not this to be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} a busi-body in other mens matters ; and if he suffer as such a one , what glory or comfort can he have at the last ? notwithstanding let him be sure his account be just , and it will prove no disadvantage to duckenfeild that he makes it . the ruling elder is a sequestrator in cheshire . answ. if the ruling elder be an honest man , and sequestratorship an honest imployment , we hope it is no disparagement to duckenfeild church , that their ruling elder is a sequestrator . their deacon is a sequestrator in lancashire ; the deacon i shall speedily being upon the stage , and make a notable discovery of his knavery in cou 〈…〉 ening the state . answ. as concerning the deacon , we shall give a true relation of the carriage of that matter . m. taylor preaching at shrewsbury the last summer , ( in the beginning of the moneth of august , as he remembreth ▪ had discourse with a religious gentleman ( a friend of his , and of the classicall way for matter of judgement ) concerning the different church-ways , that are now matters of such hot digladiation amongst many in the kingdome . the gentleman by way of discourse told him , that there were some in the church of duckenfeild , as bad as were to be found in the parish assemblies , and named laurence owen , a deacon of our church , and referred mr. taylor for further satisfaction to mr. thomas smith , book-seller in manchester , and to thomas hartley , for proofe of his dishonest dealing with the state . mr. taylor at his returne communicated this businesse to the elders of the church , and in a short time after wee both conferred with thomas hartley , and received from him a report that he was not satisfied that l. owen had carried the matter well , and gave some instances . hereupon wee resolved , ( so soon as possibly we could get a convenient time , ) to call laurence owen before us , and to require an account of him concerning his negotiation for the state : and to desire mr. smith , thomas hartley , and whomsoever els might fall under our intelligence , as a person able to witnesse any thing materiall concerning l. owen his proceeding , to give us the meeting . that if it might appeare that l. owen had done any thing to the prejudice of the state , or peace of a good conscience , wee might use our best endeavours to bring him to the sight of his sinne , and repentance for it , and also to make due satisfaction to the state . but many importune occasions falling in , in that conjunction of time , deferred the execution of our determinations for a short time , till a fit season was by the good hand of providence opened unto us . but when wee were fully ripened by a universall conflux of all conce●●●ring requisites for the issuing of this businesse , ( which had not suffered the least delay , but that we had probable , and promising grounds of hope , that the charges against him were founded upon mistakes in his accusers ) wee resolved to bring it under examination , with a most requisite and impartiall endeavour of discovering ( so far as god should help us ) the whole truth . now in this juncture of time , mr. smith had drawne up a charge , and brought it before the committee of lancashire , who upon a full , and impartiall hearing of the cause , did not find him guiltie of the things charged upon him , and so dismissed him from their board , without any censure . and this was the issue of mr. smiths confidence that he should speedily discover the knavery of the deacon , in his first attempt . and though this businesse issuing before the gentlemen , according to our former ( then present ) apprehensions , might have given reasonable satisfaction to us in point of the deacons innocency ; yet because wee understood that mr. smith was not herewithall satisfied , wee resolved ( as unforestalled in point of the innocency of the accused by any thing that passed before the gentlemen , or fell otherwise under our observation , ) to give mr. smith a full and faire hearing ; that so if he could make any reall discovery , wee might improve it to the glory of god , the states satisfaction , and our brothers spirituall good : and accordingly desired mr. smith , when he was ripe for the purpose , to let us understand . after some weekes past , mr. smith sent a declaration to mr. taylor , subscribed with his own hand , and the hands of george jackson , and tho : hartley ; containing divers charges against l. o. upon the receipt hereof , the church assembled to fast and pray before god , to seek assistance of grace on the behalfe of the brother that was afresh accused , that he might carry it candidly , and sincerely in his answer , as in the presence of god , and be as ready to take shame to himselfe , if any thing were justly charged , as to stand upon the defence of his innocency , in things wherein his conscience bore witnesse to the integritie of his actions : as also that the elders might be inabled to conceive aright of things , and to make report of them accordingly to the church . the dutie being ended , the severall charges were drawne out of the declaration [ the most materiall of them being the same ( as we have been informed ) that were agitated formerly before the committee ] and l. o. required to make answers to them : which accordingly he did . after we had thus heard both parties severally , wee desired to heare them joyntly , and that they might come face to face , for which purpose , mr. taylor writ a letter to mr. smith , and his two friends , desiring them to give us the meeting at some convenient place , and to bring with them such persons as might give in evidence against l. o. concerning any thing contained in the declaration , that might stand in need of further proofe . he also desired that mr. johnson of ashton , and mr. angier of denton ( two godly , and grave ministers of the classicall way ) might be present as witnesses of what passed on both sides . this desired meeting mr. smith and his two friends thought fit to decline for these two reasons , as they pretended . first , that matters of fact were laid downe with that distinctnesse , and clearenesse in the declaration , that they needed to adde no more words for the satisfaction of any ingenuous reader . secondly , ( and that by way of implication ) that wee were not authorized to take their examination upon oath . to which m. taylor in his letter to them answered , that our designe was ( according to our dutie ) to endeavour to bring our brother to the sight of his sinne , and repentance for it , in case he should prove guiltie , according to the severall charges contained in the declaration , or any of them . that this we could not doe , except wee could convince him . that we could not convince him , and upon conviction proceed against him , but by the proofe of two witnesses at the least , since he confidently denied divers things contained in the declaration , and in his answer avoyded the dint , and scope of the rest . that he desired to have his accusers come face to face , and that he might have libertie to answer for himselfe : and that this justice neither they , ( since they had laid a charge against him , nor wee ( if wee would carry it righteously a ) could deny him . that wee desired to know whether they did joyntly attest all , and every of the miscarriages charged in the declaration , or severally . if not all joyntly , but some severally , then we desired to know which of the particulars were attested by one onely witnesse , and which by two or more , since we could not proceed upon a single testimony , but must desire further proofe . that l. o. had brought a certificate b under the hand of a man beyond exception faithfull , ( who spake not by hearesay , but as an eye and eare witnesse , point-blank , contrary to one maine thing charged in the declaration , and also another man ( that had great reason to know the state of the businesse to which he spake , attesting that which is contrary to the maine thing charged by them , as we should give them fully to understand , if they pleased to give us the meeting . that there was also one thing mentioned in the declaration in generall termes , viz. certaine summes of money received that were not given in in his accounts , but no particulars specified , and we desired that the particulars might be given in , and so attested by themselves , or otherwise . that these things considered , they could not righteously deny us the meeting , notwithstanding the distinctnesse , and clearnesse in matter of fact pretended to be in their declaration . and as for the second , it was answered in mr. taylors letter aforesaid ; that if they did not judge it unfit to give in their accusation in their declaration , though they did not look upon us as authorized to administer an oath to them ; why might they not corroborate , and make out their accusation before us ( in things wherin there should be need of further light , ) though we were not in a capacitie to administer an oath unto them ? these were the most material ▪ p ssages in mr. taylors letter . mr. smiths answer in the most considerable pertinent passages was ; that he would have appeared before us , if he had believed us invested with any lawfull power by god● to have taken his examination ▪ that to comply with us in thi 〈…〉 way , would be a remedy worse then the disease . that if l. o. desired is accusers to come face to face , why according to his counsell had he not brought his accusers before the committee ? that he would not trouble himselfe with 〈◊〉 certificate he 〈…〉 ve , or from whom procured , since he 〈…〉 to make out the maine particulars of his 〈…〉 wn accounts and confession and by sufficient 〈…〉 ony upon oath ▪ that he 〈…〉 not the declaration to one church , nor in any of his letters had acknowledged mr. taylor a minister . that if we desired a meeting in a christian way , and not in a church-way , and pleased to let manchester be the place , he would meet us , and endeavour to ingage his two friends , and such other witnesses as should be necessary . that for other particulars in the letter , ( i. e. whether they did attest the things charged in the declaration severally , or joyntly , and if not all joyntly , but some severally , then which were attested by one witnesse , and which by two or more ) wherein we desired satisfaction , he conceived it would be fitter to give in account to the committee for sequestration then to us . to which mr. taylor replyed , that whether he acknowledged the church of duckenfield a church , the elders a presbyteris , or himselfe a minister , neither the one , nor the other , nor himselfe did regard . for with them it was a small thing to be judged of him , or of mans judgement . to their own master they must stand or fall . that the scope of this desired meeting ( on our part ) was not to steale from him an acknowledgement of the truth of our church , or ministries , but an improvement of it to this end , that our brother might be healed in his conscience , if he had done any iniquitie , and in his reputation ( so far as in us lay ) if none of those things whereof he was accused were found in him . and forasmuch as a meeting of them in the capacitie of christians , would be of equivolent conducency to the attainment of our end , wee should as willingly meet them under that notion , as in the capacitie of a presbytery . this answer being thus returned , we were in plenary expectation , that this businesse would speedily be issued one way or other . but though we condescended to meet mr. smith upon his own termes , yet in his answer to mr. taylor , he totally ( contrary to his own ingagement , and promise under his own hand , ) refused to meet us , and not onely so , but expressed himselfe resolved to forbeare all further intercourse with mr. taylor in writing about this matter . the reason alledged by him of his refusall to meet us , was , that he was inhibited by the committee of accounts , who were resolved to take the full examination of the businesse themselves , conceiving that our private debates , would no way advantage the publick , and might prejudice them in their proceedings . assuring us that if we would have but a little patience , things would be discovered to our full satisfaction , out of the examination taken upon oath . when we were thus deserted by mr. smith , and his two confederate friends , refusing to tell us which of the charges were attested by one onely witnesse , and which by two or more , or to give any particulars attested where the charge was generall , refusing also to give us the meeting for the making out of his charge , where it needed proofe , viz. in such things , whereof he , and his two friends , were onely the relators , and accusers , but could not possibly be the attestors or witnesses : when wee were thus deserted , ( wee say ) yet wee left no stone unmoved , further to informe our selves concerning this businesse . and having notice that l. o. was to come to his answer before the committee of accounts for lancashire , upon tuesday the second of febr. . ( to our best remembrance ) in manchester : wee both came thither , and sent to the gen gentlemen of that committee , to desire libertie that wee might sit by and heare what passed that day for our further satisfaction . but this libertie was denied us by the gentlemen at that time . after this mr. taylor having intelligence of the meeting of the committee upon a tuesday , came to manchester to desire a copie of l. o. his charge , the better to enable them to discover the truth of this matter . but after he had come twice or thrice to the place where usually they sate , he was informed , that the countrey people came not in , and so they would not sit that day , and so lost his labour at that time . after this he applied himselfe to one of them particularly , expressing the desire that himselfe , and his brethren had to be throughly possessed of the state of that businesse , and that it would be a very great courtesie to us , if wee might but have a copie of the depositions . the gentleman answered , that it was resolved at their board , that l. o. should not onely be allowed breviates , but also copies at large of the depositions , and there was but onely one thing undetermined , and that was , whether since all the examinations were not taken , he should have the depositions piece meale , or the whole together . mr. taylor went away well satisfied in the candor , and impartialitie of the gentlemens proceedings in that matter . and so wee hope that in due time we shall enjoy the advantage of those depositions , to enable us to make a judgement of the cause , and till then wee shall suspend our thoughts and determinations about that matter . onely this wee cannot but take notice of ; that mr. smith after some depositions were taken , before l. o ▪ had answered for himselfe , ( for that is not yet done ) or the gentlemen had passed any censure against him , ( which also is not yet done ) he writ up to a gentleman a friend of his in london ; that the deacon of duckenfield his knavery is proved before the committee upon oath , and be turned out of his place . his letter bore date , jan. . . who reading this letter , would not conclude , that the committee , after a full hearing of both sides , had found l. o. guiltie ? and for his guilt ( or knavery , to speake in mr. smiths dialect ) had turned him out of his place ? and so his friend in london took it up . whereas the truth is , the examinations are not yet all taken , neither to this day of our present writing , hath l. o. a copie of any one deposition , nor have the committee of accounts passed any censure at all against him , much lesse put him out of his place . but the committee of the countie to ease the publick charge , did diminish the number of the agents for sequestration , and ( without any character of disgrace at all ) did suspend him from the execution of his place ; as they did also many other persons of unspotted side litie to the state . a copie of which suspension is as followeth . at the committee , january . . for as much as by reason of the many and great sequestrators within this county , which have lately been suspended , and taken off , by the compositions at goldsmiths-hall : this committee doe conceive it necessary to reduce the agents employed in the sequestrations in the severall limits , and divisions , hereafter particularly expressed ; viz. oliver edge in manchester divisiou : isaack dehoo , in middleton division : richard bradshaw , in bolton division : william kindsly and william parr , in the parishes of warrington , winwick , wiggan & leigh ; and peter ambrose , and john case in the remainder of the hundred of derby , william eccleston and thomas jackson , for ●●yland hundred : charles gregory , and john haworth , in blackhurne hundred : james smith , richard whitehead , and william audeland , in amundernesse hundred : and thomas towlinson , thomas gardner , adam sands , and john sawry , in lonisdale hundred . and that all other agents employed in the sequestrations in this countie , shall from and after the first day of march next , suspend and forbeare the execution of their places or employments as agents . and in the meane time they are to perfect their accounts , and deliver the same to mr. okey upon such penalties as are imposed by the ordinance of parliament . and the collectors for sequestrations in lonisdale hundred are from hence forward to forbeare the execution of their employments . and the agents of that hundred are to performe the same accordingly . j. bradshawe . john starkie . thomas birche . robert cunliffe . william knipe . n. rigbie . vera copia examinat . per me oliver edge . and yet even since that time , that committee that put him out , hath put him in againe ; which doubtlesse they would never have done , had they judged him unfaithfull to the state . a copie of which order for re-execution of his place is as followeth . at the committee , march . . it is ordered , that william kindsly , william parr , and john hampson , shall be employed for the sequestration in the parishes of warrington , winwicke , leygh , and wiggan , and that they shall have one collector to assist them . and that richard bradshaw shall act as agent for sequestrations in the parishes of bolton , deane , bury , and ratliffe , and that he shall have one collector for his assistance therein ; and that isaac dehoo , and edward dutton shall be agents in the parishes of ashton under line , ouldham , middleton , and rachdale , and one collector to assist them . and that oliver edge , and laurence owen , shall be agents in the parishes of manchester , eccles , drestwich , and flixton , and that the parties aforenamed , shall doe , execute , and performe all things pertaining to that employment , as by ordinance of parliament is appointed . and that for their care and paines to be taken therein , they shall all of them receive the usuall salarie , and pay , as hath been accustomably used to have been allowed , and paid to others of the like employment : saving that there shall be allowed to mr. dutton , and mr. dehoo , the weekly pay of twenty-foure shillings , onely untill further order . j. bradshawe . john starkie . thomas birche . n. rigbie . h. eleetwood . vera copia examinat . per me oliver edge . farre be it from us , to bring any rayling accusation against mr. smith , but let the tree be judged by its fruits , the man by his actions . as for laurence owen , and his businesse , we shall leave it in the middle , and neither cleare him , nor condemne him , ( further then matters of fact ▪ reported in this narrative are of a tendency one way or other ) till the businesse be issued before the committee of accounts . onely hereby it doth appeare , that the church , and the elders , have laboured in some good measure to doe their duty . now we passe to the prodigious story of the invisible drumme . in pag. . there is the story of a drumme , and mr. edwards makes a godly minister of cheshire to be the reporter of it to him , but his name is concealed ; wee may not know him , yet we may aske mr. edwards whether the minister were an eye or eare witnesse of it ? if he were not , nor yet asserted so much to mr. edwards , how comes it that mr. edwards saith in his preface ; for other relations ( alludeing to relations of fact ) i have them from such knowne godly ministers , and christians , being eare and eye witnesse thereof . this will be found a monstrous untruth in mr. edwards : however , because there was no such minister , an eare , or eye-witnesse of this matter , it will be found a loud lye betwixt them , upon which of them soever it will fall . but because there is great enquiry made in some parts of the kingdome about this matter , wee thinke it necessary for the satisfaction of all that would be informed in the truth of it , to give a briefe relation of it , as it was at duckenfeild , and afterwards to manifest what a bundell of untruths were knit up together in the story , as it is represented to the kingdome . and for the truth of what we say , wee shall appeale to many impartiall auditors , who ( as they sometimes repaire to the chappell ) so they were eare and eye-witnesse of the whole matter that very day . their testimony ( they being neither members of our church , nor of our opinion ) wee hope will currantly passe with all rationall men . which is as followeth . upon one lords day , while mr. eaton was preaching in duckenfeild-chappell , there was the noyse of rapping or striking upon one of the pewes or seates in the chappell , and ( they being made of thin wainscoate , and standing hollow from any wall ) the sound was the greater , but continued not long . upon the first hearing of it , mr. eaton turned his eare towards the place whence he conceived the sound came , and after he had finished the sentence he was speaking , he made a short pause , as his manner hath often been to doe , and the noyse immediately ceased ; and he began againe to speake , and so continued to the end , both of prayer and sermon , as at other times , without any further interruption . in the place , whence the noyse proceeded , there was a dogge which lay under the seate , and it was then , and still is supposed , that the dogge in scratching of his eare , struck upon the wainscoate with his foote , which in so little a place as duckenfeild chappell , might well cause as great a noyse , as was there heard : but before it could certainly be knowne what caused it , the noyse was ended , and the dogge was immediately put forth from the seate upon it . in witnesse to the truth of this we set to our hands . robert duckenfeild . william bardsley . george hurst . henry aritage . henry hurst . john taylor . william hampson . thomas ouldham . joseph ashton . william aritage . joseph andrew . having thus brought the truth to light , the untruths , that have been most maliciously and unrighteously forged upon it , will more easily be manifest to all mens eyes . first , that the noyse was like the beating of a march upon a drumme . secondly , that the noyse came in at the doores , and passed up the isle , and so compassed about the chappell . thirdly , that it interrupted mr. eaton , in such manner , that it caused him to desist from preaching , and to betake himselfe to prayer . fourthly , that at length ( the noyse continuing so long ) it caused the dissolution of the assembly , and forced all to flee from the chappell . these are foure desperate malicious untruths , by whomsoever first devised , and each untruth is more horrid and wicked then other . whereas mr. edwards doth comment upon it , and to make it the more remarkeable , would have it observed , that this was the first visible framed independant church that was set up in england , and before the apologists came from holland , &c. answ. wee answer , visible it hath been from the first day it was a church , for wee have carried all things publickly in the face of the world , to prevent the many foule aspersions which have been wont to be cast upon domestick and clandestine meetings ; that with christ wee might be able to say to all malicious false witnesse bearers , wee speake openly daily , in secret have wee said nothing , if therefore wee have done evill , beare witnesse of the evill , if not , why smile you us ca●s●esly ? but whether we were visible , and framed before the apologists came from holland , ( seeing that it is not yet full three yeares since the constitution of our church , and little above two yeares since it was compleated with officers , ) let mr. edwards himselfe ( who knowes the time of their coming from holland ) more considerately compute : and finding it false , ( as we are confident he will ) let him retract so bold an assertion . the conclusions which mr. edwards builds upon it , are foolish , cruell , and absurd , as may appeare from what hath been presented in the premisses ; and let it be considered , whether he hath not dipped his pen deeply in bloud , while he would prophesie what should become of the independants ? and whether he hath not shewed himselfe a bloudy man , and hath already in his heart split a great deale of innocent bloud : as for us , the prayers that wee have put up day by day in places where we preach , for peace betwixt us and our brethren of scotland , will cleare us that we are not the men he chargeth us to be : and wee commit it to god to have our innocency cleared to all mens consciences in his time . in the interim , wee are contented that those foule and hatefull charges , that mr. edwards hath made against us , may passe with the world upon such evidence , as they are presented , and that they may be received and credited upon those grounds upon which they are built , which are most impudent falsities , viz. for [ certainly , and assuredly , ] as there was a drumme heard , beating a march in duckenfeild chappell , so [ undoubtedly ] doe the independants delight in warre . againe , [ so surely , and unquestionably ] as the beating of this drumme , drove us out from the chappell , and brake up our meeting , so [ certainly and infallibly ] shall the warre which wee have sought , overthrow all our opinions , and meetings , and cast us out of england , as an abominable branch for ever : and so [ infallibly ] shall some of our heads be served up by the presbyterians , and put into bloud , as king cyrus his head was by tomyris . in pag. . and . there is a letter , in which the sectaries are charged to have promoted a petition for toleration , the members of duckenfeild to have framed it , the subscribers to be seekers , soule-sleepers , anabaptists , &c. and amongst others , one common drunken minister : it is styled , the petition of the peaceable and well-affected , who desire liberty of conscience , as was promised by the house of commons in their declaration . answ. truth it is , there was a petition on foote , both in cheshire , and lancashire : the fiercenesse of some presbyterians in their petitions in both counties against their brethren ( who would have lived peaceably by them ) was the cause of it . it was not for toleration , but against violence , where moderation and forbearing ought to be : it carried no such title , as the letter imports . some presbyterians were at the framing of it with independants ; many presbyterians employed in the promoting of it . the greater part of the subscribers were presbyterians ; the minister that is said to be a common drunkard , and yet signed it , is one who is entertained by a very godly people in lancashire , who have spoken very hopefully of him to one of us . however it prove , a classicall man he is , or was , a little after he had subscribed it , and therefore not for the honour of the informer , to mention him as a drunkard . if any young schollar which subscribed it , said he would defend independency with his bloud : the speech was rash , but may admit of as favourable a construction , as that somewhat like expression of a presbyterian , who said , he would burne at a stake , before he would reade the house of commons declaration of the th of aprill . but how many untruths have been written in these informations given in about this petition , may be worth the observation of the considerate reader . in this extract also some gentlemen of noble qualitie , are most unworthily and falsly charged ; and though they be not nominated , yet being it is notoriously known who are intended , the injury is not the lesse , but the greater ; for they might vindicate themselves from such aspersions had they been nominally mentioned . the one of them is said to be become a great zealot for independants , for no other reason , but because he is not causlesly transported , with that rage and fury against them , as the author of this letter is , and many other of the pre byterians are in that county ; that he threatned any godly minister to make their places too hot for denying their pulpits to mr. eaton , is most calumniously asserted against so honourable a person . the one of us was an eye and eare witnesse , when this man ( not a godly as it is said ) but an unworthy scandalous minister behaved himselfe insolently and audaciously against this gentleman ; and yet he bore it with remarkable patience , onely told him his own unworthy intemperate offensive carriage in his function , might ere long be brought against him , to cast him out . the other gentleman is said to have incouraged sectaries , discouraged and borne downe the orthodox well affected gentlemen and ministers , that they could never to this day , get any thing done against them . answ. but this is a most ingratefull accusation against so deserving a gentleman , who hath done his countrey , and the kingdome , such noble service , and it is full of malicious slander . for , first ; the persons that he is said to have incouraged , are knowne to be as godly and as orthodox ( independency excepted , which in point of oxthodoxnesse is under doubtfull disputation ) as any other . and what hath his incouraging been , but his entreating them to take their turnes in preaching with others : which service also the parliament hath required from some of their judgement . secondly , what instance can be given of any one orthodox gentleman , or minister , that he hath discouraged and borne downe ? thirdly , when were there ever any attempts made , and set afoote by any of the gentlemen or minister against such person , and he opposed them therein , and ingaged himselfe for the other party ? if none of these , then is he unworthily dealt with . and let it be observed , that whereas there is an implication in his words of a forwardnesse among the gentlemen and ministers to suppresse independency , there is an untruth closely wrapped up in it ; for no such thing hath appeared from the gentlemen , nor generally from the ministers . it is also considerable , how to usher in , what ( by way of defamation ) he would have the world to take notice of concerning this gentleman , he takes upon him to discover the state of cheshire , and therein his own horrid apprehensions of the independents , ( for he instanceth onely in them ) and he compares them ( by way of implication ) to some hideous devouring monster , and all that are taken with them he resembles to a miserable prey ; as if independency were mortiferous and deadly to all the imbracers of it , poysonous and destructive to mens soules . it is of sad consideration to thinke unto what an unjudiciousnesse of mind , and to what moastrous conceptions men are left , through want of charity . and then to confirme what he had asserted of cheshire , he strengthens it with a notorious untruth ; there are ( saith he ) two or three independent churches , set up by them already , and they are setting up two or three more ; the latter part of this relation is totally false . having done with cheshire , he proceeds to lay his defaming pen , upon some parliament-members , and delivers himselfe in such language , as if some abominable thing might be laid to their charge , which it would be lesse safe for men to mention , then to blaspheme all the persons in the trinity ; and by and by he addes words , which reflects upon the whole assembly of parliament : his expressions are these ; the suffering of the church of god to be rent and torne in pieces by heresies , schismes , and divisions , the retarding reliefe for poore bleeding ireland , the grieving and sadding the hearts of our brethren of scotland , &c. the words need no comment upon them who can permit and suffer ought , which the parliament will inhibit , and so of the rest it may be said ; therefore the parliament is struck at , but most unjustly ; for , how they have carried it in all these things , is abundantly evidenced to all that will open their eyes . there are other passages in these very letters , and in other letters which wee have read , which reflect upon some independent churches in these parts , and wee are able to contradict those things , wherewith they , and their officers are aspersed , and to declare the falsitie of them . and if we conceived , that themselves would be silent , we should thinke our selves bound to say somewhat ; but it is probable , the sense of injuries done them , will lie upon them , as well as upon us , and put them also upon vindication of themselves in due time . wee therefore shall rest satisfied in pleading our own innocercy , and shall intreat the impartiall reader , to consider with what dishonest and deceitfull stuffe , both relations and letters are filled , which will not abide tryall . our request to god shall be , that he would teach them , ( who thinke they doe god good service , in beating and baiting their brethren , ) more love , candidnesse , and ingenuity in all their relations of others , and all those who are the subjects of all their exclamations and oppositions , more innocency , and integritie in all their demeanor , that thence it may come to passe , that all that would accuse their good conversation , may be ashamed . the copie of a letter from mr. henry rootes , pastor of the church of sowerbie in yorkshire , in vindication of himselfe against a sinister and dangerous , yet false and groundlesse insinuation , conteined in the copie of a letter out of yorkshire , divulged by mr. edwards in the third part of gangranna . pag. . to his loving brethren , mr. eaton or mr. taylor , these be presented . dearely beloved brethren ; having received intelligence from my brother taylor , of your purpose of answering some slanders of mr. edwards , i desire to give you a true and faithfull accompt of what i delivered in that sermon , which is toucht upon in that letter of james robinsons , which is printed , and of the unchristian dealing in that particular . first , i exhorted all godly men to joyne themselves to some visible church , if they have opportunity . i explained my selfe , i say to some visible church ; not this or that , but some , i say , if they have opportunitie ; for if god take away their opportunitie , they must wait gods time : these cautions premised : these motives were added ; first , whosoever joynes not to some , sinneth , heb. . . jude ver. . secondly , god will punish such , zach. . , , . secondly , i exhorted all godly men , being joyned to some visible church , to strive to walke in some neernesse of communion with that church : as , . in love ; . peace ; . watchfulnesse ; . christian toleration of infirmities ; . seeking one anothers welfare ; . defending one another from common enemies , gen. . . act. . . act. . , . where you may see a mistake in the relator of this last quotation ; this is the real truth , as i can produce mine own notes , and skores of witnesses to atrest the same . first , observe that this relation which now is printed , was carried on the sabbath day to another chappell , a mile distant , and there written downe in all hast , and the next morning posted away to manchester , and that week to yorke : spread fifty miles distant in a few dayes : the next weeke i hearing of it , both from yorke and manchester , i took occasion to speake with mr. hollingworth about it , who said he had seene such a letter , and i related unto him mine own expressions , and sense , who said after he heard me , that i had a deale of wrong done unto me ; i desired to know the party that did write the letter , that i might vindicate my selfe ; but he desired to be forborne in that ; i intreated him then to doe mee that brotherly office , as to deale with the party himselfe ; who promised he would , yet after all this , the letter is sent to london , and printed . secondly , the next lords day after i heard of this , i publickly before all the congregation , related what i had heard was written to yorke and manchester , ( the writer being present ) i then desired to repeate what i had delivered , and did so ; and shewed before all , my sense , that i meant it of the common enemy of the kingdome , ( we being at that time imbroyled in civill warre , ) and i added , that i was so farre from judging it lawfull , for the congregationall men to take up armes against the presbyterians , that i held it unlawfull for any private man to take up armes , except he was backed by publick authoritie . yea , i thought this warre , now in being , could not be justified , but that it hath the authoritie of the state to mannage it . thirdly , diverse weekes after this , ( learning who was the writer of this letter ) i dealt with him about it before one of his intimate friends , paul greenwood , shewing him how unchristianly he had dealt with mee in it : paul answered , indeed he should have knowne my sense before he had divulged it : and for his part , he observed the passages of that sermon as diligently as he could , and did not finde any thing of just exception against it : and i judge this paul , as judicious a christian as most about us , yet all this would not cause the letter to be recalled , or stayed from printing . fourthly , it may clearely be discerned by this relation , and the circumstances here set downe , that divers sinnes , divers wayes have been committed . first , by the first relator , who upon the lords day leaving his owne chappell , in the midst of the day , to goe to carry a piece of a relation , which proves the seed of slander ; if wittingly he minced the relation in the limitation , there 's doegs sinne in it , yea if he related it in that sense which the scribe , and publisher in print seeme to import , ( as it is very probable , by his hasty telling of it , and the others hasty writing of it abroad ) it was in that sense then the like sinne , to their's that were the false witnesses against our saviour , mat. . , . cum joh. . . . but if it was rashly done , without any sinister intention , ( which is much to be doubted , ) yet there was evill in it , to relate a passage , and to leave out principall circumstances for the understanding of it . secondly , sinnes committed by the writer , and divulger were . first , a receiving an accusation against an elder upon one witnesse , without enquiring of the elder , whether it were so , though he might have done any day , and then divulging of it , behinde the backe , and never to the face , in a slanderous manner . secondly , impenitency , and hardnesse of heart , for when he was shewed his sinne , and could not but see it , yet to this day , he never gave any satisfaction , or testimony of repentance to the party wronged ; neither did he suppresse the divulging and printing of it , which he might easily have done , had he timely improved his endeavours , which in godlinesse he ought to have done ; but it appeares in this particular act , he loved evill more then good , and slandering more then speaking righteousnesse , psal. . . thirdly , the sinne of him that published in print these things was , his printing slanderous relations upon so sleight grounds , without enquiring into the certain truth ; yea having been admonished before of such dealings by mr. burroughs , mr. saltmarsh ; and mr. john goodwin , and found faulty in the same kinde , and yet goes on in the same trade ; surely the wise man layes a heavy doome on such , pro. . . all this shews by wofull experience , that there is a spirit of malice workes in the hearts of brethren against some of their brethren more virulent in this kinde , then the spirit of episcopacy , striking not only at our peace , libertie , and livelihood , but at our good names and reputations unjustly : which the bishops never could so touch : but i hope , god will in his time cleare us ; as in this particular by his goodnesse he hath done , and all the world may see it , if they will but view this . brethren , thus i have given you the truth , which i will avow ; if you please to adde any thing within these bounds which is defective ; to blot out any thing redundant or unnecessary , or alter any phrases which are harsh or unpolished , i give you free libertie , nay i intreate you as brethren to doe it , and insert it with your owne , and i will acknowledge my selfe much obliged unto you . i salute you both in the lord , and desire to be remembred to all the brethren , and so remaine sowerbie march . . your truely loving brother in christ , henry roote . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- titus . ▪ gangrae . p. . ibid. ibid. . gangr . pag. . & . act. . . pag. . the marginal note . pag. . notes for div a e- d. gang. gangrae . gangrae ▪ pag. . a acts . . & . . b the same certificate was since subscribed by another godlyman ▪ ☜ preston in com : lane . wiggan in com : lane . d. gang. pag. . the schismatick sifted. or, the picture of independents, freshly and fairly washt-over again. wherein, the sectaries of these times (i mean, the principall seducers to that dangerous and subtile schisme of independency) are with their own proper pensils, and self-mixed colours, most lively set forth to be a generation of notorious dissemblers and sly deceivers. collected (for the most part) from undeniable testimonies under their own hands, in print; for the more fair and full satisfaction, and undeceiving of moderate and much misled christians; especially by the outward appearance of their piety of life, and a pretence of their preaching sound-doctrine. / by john vicars. vicars, john, or - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing v thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) the schismatick sifted. or, the picture of independents, freshly and fairly washt-over again. wherein, the sectaries of these times (i mean, the principall seducers to that dangerous and subtile schisme of independency) are with their own proper pensils, and self-mixed colours, most lively set forth to be a generation of notorious dissemblers and sly deceivers. collected (for the most part) from undeniable testimonies under their own hands, in print; for the more fair and full satisfaction, and undeceiving of moderate and much misled christians; especially by the outward appearance of their piety of life, and a pretence of their preaching sound-doctrine. / by john vicars. vicars, john, or - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for nathanael webb, and william grantham, at the grey-hound in pauls church-yard., london: : . annotation on thomason copy: "june th". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng sects -- england -- early works to . congregationalism -- early works to . church polity -- early works to . great britain -- church history -- th century. a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no the schismatick sifted. or, the picture of independents, freshly and fairly washt-over again.: wherein, the sectaries of these times (i mea vicars, john b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the schismatick sifted . or , the picture of independents , freshly and fairly washt-over again . wherein , the sectaries of these times ( i mean , the principall seducers to that dangerous and subtile schisme of independency ) are with their own proper pensils , and self-mixed colours , most lively set forth to be a generation of notorious dissemblers and fly deceivers . collected ( for the most part ) from undeniable testimonies under their own hands , in print ; for the more fair and full satisfaction , and undeceiving of moderate and much misled christians ; especially by the outward appearance of their piety of life , and a pretence of their preaching sound-doctrine . by john vicars . for sions sake , i cannot hold my peace . isaiah , . . now i beseech you , brethren , mark them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them . for , these , that are such serve not our lord jesus christ , but their own belly ; and by good words and fair speeches , deceive the simple . rom. . , . london : printed for nathanael webb , and william grantham , at the grey-hound in pauls church-yard . . to the right honourable , and most worthily to be highly honoured thomas adams , esquire ; lord major of the most famous and renowned city of london ; i. v. prayeth all encrease of gracious honour , here and of glorious happinesse , hereafter . right honourable : it was the sad and unhappy complaint of the prophet jeremy in his dayes , and in that ungracious and ungratefull city , jerusalem ; that no man among them was valiant for the truth . jer. . . nay , the lord himselfe , by the same prophet , seeming to be , as it were , transported with holy indignation and just jealousie of neglect of his honour , and worship , bids them run to and fro through the streets of jerusalem , to see and seek if they could find any one man that loved the truth . jer. . . yea , this penury of pious men was not only among the poor and mean men , ver. . but even among the great men and rulers of jerusalem , ver. but , ô the honour and happinesse of this most famous , faithfull and ever renowned city of london ! this city of our god , of which ( most justly ) so many glorious things are , and may , and must be spoken , to the glory of god , and honour thereof ! over which , such a renowned and religious , such a valiant and vertuous governour is set ( verifying that of the prophet , nah. . . ( though there , iconfess , spoken in another sense : ) that our valiant men are in scarlet , even your good lordship , who have bin , as it were , purposely placed and appointed by god himselfe for these times ; and who are so valiant and couragious for the truth of your god , and the glorious work of gospell reformation , as cannot be dampt or daunted with any vaporous and seeming eclipsing clouds of unworthy disgusts raised by the selfish and elfish envy of schismaticall spirits , which of late have , only , passed over the faire face and cleer sun-shine of your honours piety and integrity ; for with unvanquishable valour and vigour of zeal for god and his truth , ( like a pious patriot , indeed ) your honour hath most gravely and graciously dispell'd them all , standing still , like an immoveable , invincible , and impregnable rock ; or rather running on , like the active sun in the firmament with so much the more resplendent beauty , and radiant lustre , in a sweet and swift course of constant piety and magnanimity , for the advancement of the immaculate cause of your god , and the common-wealth , to the high honour of god , and singular joy and comfort of all the true presbyterian saints and sons of our english sion , both in city and country . ride on prosperously , then , ( my most honourable good lord , ) in the cause of truth and righteousnesse , backt with the sacred suffrages and faithfull affections of very many thousands of most peaceable honest-hearted and god-honouring covenanters , both in city and country , yea , even of a whole nation of loyall and loving scottish-brethren , who , with us , most justly look for and long for the happy and holy consummating of a glorious reformation of the kingdoms grievances , and establishment of a blessed church-discipline , according to the minde of our great master christ jesus , and the plain literal meaning of our sacred solemne covenant . and hence ( my honourable good lord ) i have bin humbly bold ( emboldened by your honours much experienced candor and courtesie toward me , the meanest and most unworthy of all your lordships votaries ) to dedicate this little , but , i hope , very necessary and usefull treatise ( considering these seducing staggering and unstable-times ) as a small symbol , and though poore and plain , yet true tessera of my bounden gratitude , to your honours pious patronage : thus , i say , both , to take fit occasion to manifest my obliged hearts thankfulnesse for your lordships many most free and friendly favours ; as also , by this , though succinct , yet sincere discovery of the sly and subtile dissemblers and deceivers of our dayes , and consequently the mayn molesters and disturbers of the happy settlement of a godly church-government among us ; as also thus to adde , at least , one small stick to encrease the flame ( though i am confident i need not ) of your good lordships godly zeale in this glorious work , so much and so maliciously opposed by the impious and impudent sectaries of these most sadly distracted times . which , humbly hoping your honour will with accustomed christian candor , and exuberant friendly favour , candidly accept ; the continued , yea perpetuated encrease of all honour and happinesse to your good lordship , in this your renowned majoralty , and to the period of your pious pilgrimage , shall be the daily devoted prayers of your honours most humble and eve● to be commanded , observant servant in the lord , john vicars . to the godly and impartiall reader . the great dishonour ( good reader ) which i have frequently observed to be done to my god , in the abuse of his truth ; and the strange cockering of errours and schismes , by truths too violent and virulent adversaries and antagonists : together with the familiar vilifying and extream undervaluing of truths loyall presbyterian propugnators , and the most unreasonable high esteeme and loud and lofty elogies which the foolish world falsly and fondly blatters forth in prayse of schismaticall independents , and the rest of these times most seditious and dangerous sectaries , whose great ( and yet most just ) unhappinesse it is , that they cannot mayntain any thing ( for the most part ) of what they schismatically professe , but by grosse untruths , brainsick enthusiasmes , fictitious new-lights , aliàs , old-blasphemous errours , and too often by down-right-lyes . all these respects , i say , have made mee ( the meanest and most unworthy of ten thousand of my godly presbyterian-brethren ) in fervent zeal to god and his truth , and in pure love and loyalty to her faithfull presbyterian friends , thus ( according to my talent ) to set pen to paper , and ( with as much faithfulnesse as resolved freedome ) with their own hands to stop the mouths , and with their own pens to give a check to the untrue tongues of these so high pretenders to such soundnesse in doctrine , and integrity of life and conversation , as they themselves and their schismaticall scycophants do most frothily and falsly brag and boast them to be . and although i doe ( as i must ) make account , herein , to passe through bad report , as well as good report for this my pains : yet , so i may bring any honour to god , and his most precious truth , and adde ( though but a mite of zeale ) toward the just vindication ( which i have in some measure , in this treatise endevoured ) of my reverend good friend , because truths fast friend , i mean , learned and religious mr. edwards , in his christian faithfulnesse and godly fervour ( especially in his learned and elaborate antapologie , that invincible weapon , which hath given our independent sectaries such an incurable wound as they will never be able to claw off or heal up ) against these truths most crafty and calumniating adversaries ; yet notwithstanding , i say , i passe or care not ( having , i praise my god , that murum aheneum , the testimony of a good conscience within me ) for all the false and flashy slanders , that any , or all of them can strugle to asperse and spatter mee with . however , beseeching the lord that this my poore and honest labour may produce so much good , as either to open the eyes of some pious and plain-hearted seduced-ones ( as , many such , i am verily perswaded , are among them , who heartily desire to know and love the truth ) if it be the lords good pleasure ; or , at last to stablish and confirme the hearts of those that already , really and cordially love the truth and peace , and heartily hate schisme and disorderly confusion , i rest , thine to serve thee in the lord jesus ; john vicars . the names of the five pious apologists , principally mentioned in this treatise . master thomas goodwin . philip nye . william bridge . jeremiah burroughs . sidrach simpson . the names of the seven religious remonstrants , mainly also mentioned , in this work . master william greenhill . thomas goodwin - philip nye . william bridge . jeremiah burroughs . sydrach simpson . william carter . together with divers other heads of the independent faction . the schismatick sifted . having , not long since , dilucidated and plainly painted forth , to the sight of all ( in my picture of independency ) the basis or ground of that , as unhappy , as unholy-schisme of independency , to be spirituall-pride , self-seeking , and most grosse ingratitude to god and man : and having of late , and long time indeed , had many sad and serious thoughts , what should be the reason of the so constant and great growth of all-sorts of sectaries among us , which , as the superstructure , on that triple-foundation , have ( according to our old proverb , too true at this time , ill weeds grow apace ) mightily increased , and grown marvellous rife and ranke in the garden of god ( for want of serious and seasonable weeding ) to the great endangering , choking and stifling of the holy and wholsome herbs and flowers of unity , true peace and piety ; at last i found by sad and bad experience , that beside the great want of care and sedulity in the gardiners and guardians ( under god ) of his garden , the church , faithfully and effectually to weed and dresse it , i mean , through the strange impunity and intolerable toleration of sectaries and schismaticks , so out-facingly to flourish and sprout out among us ) beside this , i say , satan that old serpentine-seducer , had made use of an old sly stratagem of his , herein , to wit ; that those pernicious weeds should grow-up , and shoot-forth exceeding like unto most sweet and fragrant flowers and wholsome herbs , whereas , indeed , upon proof and experience , being used and smelt unto , they were nothing so , but , contrariwise , exceeding bitter , bad , poysonous and unwholsome . but , to speak plain-english ( for , since they so crave and cry-out for liberty of conscience , to do what they list , unjustly : i hope it is much-more lawfull for mee to desire liberty or freedome of speech , ( to speak nothing but truth plainly and honestly ) and to leave allegoricall expressions , and ( if it be lawfull in these doubling days ) to call a spade a spade , which i am resolved to do , yet with all possible christian moderation and godly temper that may be , considering the subject i write of ; i find , i say , that the two mayn stratagems which sathan useth , at this time , to cheat & deceive the world , yea , even many of the truly godly-party ; indeed , and to cause all sorts of schismes and errours thus to increase and multiply among us , i mean , especially , that most sly and subtile ( and therefore the most dangerous ) schisme of independency ; the two mayn stratagems , i say , for the more uncontroulable propagation hereof , are ; first , a popular appearance and outward habit of holinesse , ( if there be any more , i beseech them to let us see it by integer practice ) of life and conversation ; for , come and talk with any of our moderate ( if not neutrall ) or tender-conscienced even presbyterians , who ( many of them ) stand , as it were , on tip-toe , wavering which way to stand or fall , and ask them how it comes to passe , and possibly can be , that seeing these independents , anabaptists , &c. broach , and preach and practise such dangerous opinions and unwarranted church-ways ( as they call them ) to the great distraction and disturbance of the godly peace and tranquility both of church and state , when we have given them cleer demonstrations from the fountain of truth it self , that their ways and opinions are not according to christ and scripture-grounds ; yet , still , there answer is , o , i dare not but think and speak well of them , and hold them to be good christians , because they walk so holtly and religiously ; and also ( say they , in the second place ) because they preach and teach as sound doctrines as any of our presbyterian-ministers . and thus , i say , upon these two hinges turns the door of independents growing hopes of impunity , and a continued good opinion , even , i say , among our own presbyterian party , whereby , doubtlesse , they are greatly mistaken in them , and , i feare , grosly gulled by them , and , so , wrong the truth , in countenancing and encouraging her enemies , and retarding the work of reformation . for a briefe answer to both which ; though i intend not to enter into a polemicall dispute of these things ( which , i know would prove as endlesse as fruitlesse , especially with them who are familiarly known to love to live , salamander-like , in the fire of hot and heady disputes ) yet , i trust , by gods gracious assistance to give the godly , judicious and impartiall readers such pregnant proofs and demonstrative and reall testimonies ( and that briefly too ) of the exceedingly to be feared falsity and great mistake of both these , in our independents and their brother-sectaries , that they must in conscience , certainly , confesse the invalidity and weaknesse of their opinions and assertions of them , and see and say , that they are , surely , mistaken in them , and palpably deceived by them . to begin , then with the last of these first ; whereas it is pretended by some of our own , that they dare not but speak and think well of independents , because ( as they say ) they preach as sound-doctrines as any of the best-presbyterians doe : hereunto i answer , first , in generall ; that although i deny not , but that oftentimes they preach sound-doctrine ; yet , they frequently intermix much of their own unsavoury and unfound leven of false-opinions , together with the sound-doctrines , which they deliver . witnesse , that vehement , pernicious , yea even most damnable plea for a toleration of all opinions and liberty of conscience , the high-way to ruinate and destroy all religion and conscience ; together with their most ungodly inveighing against , both in pulpits and presses , that godly church-discipline , which is regulated , as neere as may be , by gods sacred word , and the pattern of the best and most purely reformed churches in europe ; and only crying-up a most licentious , unlimited and independent-destructive government of their own ungrounded invention ; whereby ( by a cleere and undeniable necessary-consequence ) they most undiscreetly , yea , irreligiously-endevour to overthrow and utterly , i say , to ruinate all sound-doctrine and pure truth it self . for , as it cannot be denied by any that the word of god soundly preached , and the sacraments purely administred , are gods field of corn , his precious vineyard , his garden of fragrant flowers and wholsome herbs ; and , as , a wise gardiner , or provident husbandman or vine-dresser , when he hath planted a garden or vineyard , or sown a corn-field , presently takes care to build a wall , or make a strong fence or hedge about the same , to preserve them from hurtfull beasts ; which otherwise would break-in , destroy the flowers or grapes , and root up and utterly spoyle the good corn : so ( although in the first place , it must be most justly granted , as i said before , that sound-doctrines , and the sacraments rightly administred , are the garden of god , and do contein the body and substance of soul-saving-truth , as being the fountain and foundation thereof ; yet ) it is as true , that godly-order , and scripture-discipline , or church-government is the hedge , wall , or strong-fence , which god , the most prudent and provident gardiner or husbandman , of this his pretious , garden , vineyard , or field of corn , hath planted and built round about the same , both to keep in safety and security the specious and pretious flowers , herbs , corn , and grapes , for the pious professours of his word and truth to be nourisht , cherisht and fed by them to eternall-life ; and thus to keep out the noysome and hurtfull wild-beasts and boars of the forrest , ( i mean , all sorts of tyrannizing misbelievers , hereticks , papists , and prophane atheists ) and all crafty foxes , yea , even the little-foxes ( i mean , anabaptists , antinomians , independents , seekers , and such like libertines , ) who , otherwise , all of them ( this wall , hedge , or fence being pluckt up or taken away ) would soon run in , ruinate and root up and destroy the pretious corn , fragrant flowers , and tender grapes thereof ; even utterly overthrow the fountain and foundation of sound-doctrine , and put in poyson of errours , and blasphemous and most dangerous , yea , damnable opinions and heresies among them , i say to the utter undoing and overthrow of the foundation or fountain , even of sound-doctrine and truth it selfe . this , i conceive , is a most faithfull and undeniable truth ; and ( though i know all sorts of sectaries will carp , snap and snarl at it ) shall therefore satisfie me , and may also , ( i think ) satisfie all other godly and moderate christians , who desire to be wise with sobriety ; but , if it will not , then to come to particulars , and so more closely to the point in hand . is not , to broach and preach that most wicked and accursed doctrine of toleration of all religions ( as i toucht before ) yea , of all heresies , errours , sects and schismes , under that slie , subtile , ungrounded and most ungodly pretext of liberty of conscience , forsooth , is not this , i say , a preaching of false-doctrine ? is not the broaching and preaching of the scripture , not to be the word of god ? of the performance of holy duties and expression of godly sorrow for sin , and penitent praying for forgivenesse of sin ; yea , and the performance of all these with an honest , humble , self-denying and christ-seeking broken-soul , to be called or counted no better than casting dirt ( as it were ) into gods face ? are not all these , my brethren , together with exceeding many more such like , yea , some far worse ( if it may be ) blasphemous and damnable doctrines and enormous opinions , set forth at large by reverend master edwards , in his gangraena , are not all these , i say , palpable preaching and broaching of false-doctrines ? and , if not all of them , yet many of them preached by our so admired independents ; and either few or none of all the rest , are at any time preached against ( nay are they not countenanced and encouraged ) by them ? wherefore , if any shall , still , object and say , that those forementioned dangerous opinions , and the rest related by master edwards are not the opinions of the more solid and temperate independents ; but , are the anabaptists , antinomians , and such like : i answer , they are moderate and most seeming solid independents which plead and preach mightily for toleration , and liberty of conscience , which , most directly are the inlets , open sluces , and wide-gaps for all the rest to rush and gush in amongst us ; and therefore , distinguish them as you please : and call them what you will , hereof i am most confident ; that though our most moderate and supposed most discreet independents may seem only in some things to differ and vary , and in their heads or brains ( as i may say ) to be somwhat distant from some of the rest of the dangerous sectaries ; yet are they all like sampsons foxes ) fast tyed by their tayls , with destructive firebrands of dissention , division , and confusion between them , to destroy ( as much as in them is ) the good-corn of gods-field , by their most ungodly struglings , studies , plots , and calumnies , to ruinate the wall , and pluck-up the hedge or safe fence , i mean ( as we all too sensibly feel at this day ) to hinder and oppose with all might and malice , power and policy , the settlement of the godly government and scripturall-discipline of our pious and peacefull presbyterians . and are these , now , the sound and orthodox men , that are so highly commended and blazoned abroad for their sincerity and soundnesse in doctrine ? who , thus dare , so boldly ( yet craftily , i confesse ) broach abroad such false doctrines , and thus preach and prate against gods most pure and soul-saving truths ? certainly , then , am i mightily mistaken . but , now , to come to the second or other main part of our own presbyterian friends common-plea for independents , & the other cause of their great growth amongst us , viz. their holines of life , which we have great ground and cause to feare , ( and more than to feare ) is but pretended and in appearance ; which , indeed , is , i say , the main thing i here intend to insist on , and principally to prove against them ( as i have promised ) and that , under their own hands , by most undeniable testimonies . and , herein , i shall first desire briefly to premise thus much by way of introduction to what is to follow ; namely , that this hath ever been ( even in all ages and times ) satans old-cloke , too well known to be almost worne quite thread-bare , by frequent and familiar use among deceivers . for if we look back to by-past times , and read ecclesiasticall histories , we shall most truly know , and unquestionably understand that those grand and grosse hereticks , and ring-leaders to dangerous and damnable heresies , errors , and schismes in the church of god , especially in the primitive churches , and former times , as arrius , pelagius , arminius &c. were all of them , men of extraordinary outward holy lives , and ( to see to ) of most integer conversation , even to generall admiration and approbation for their parts and piety , and to the singular love and liking of all the people among whom they then lived ; and yet they were , all of them , most notorious , dangerous , yea damnable hereticks . and look up also , even to our most blessed saviours time , and there we shall finde the scribes and pharisees to be outwardly , such demurely seeming saints ▪ such pure and holy persons to see to , that it was an universally received opinion , among all the common-people , the jews of those times , that if any two men in the world should goe to heaven and be saved , it was a scribe and a pharisee ; and yet , by our saviours own testimony , these were most notorious dissemblers , deceivers , and horrible hypocrites ; and , indeed , one main foul fault among them also , was , a most vile perverting of the law , to their own ayms and ends ; and teaching false-doctrines , and their own false glosses and intentions , in stead of sound-doctrine , which very thing made our blessed saviour himselfe to inveigh most bitterly against them as notorious hypocrites ; as is most evident in all the foure evangelists . the experience whereof also made the blessed apostle paul say ( having found false apostles in his times also , deceitfull-workers , transforming themselves into the apostles of christ ) that it was no marvail , for , satan , himselfe ( sayes he ) is transformed into an angel of light . and indeed there is very great politick reason hereof ; for , should not hereticks and schismaticks , first , put-on that brave embrodred-cloke of seeming holinesse , to dazle the eyes and understanding of their honest , innocent proselites ( as i believe many of these to be ) who i pray that had any light and sight of reason and religion , would so easily have received their so dangerous opinions , or damnable doctrines ? if satan should at first shew his cloven-foot , and the hornes on his head ( as fools , formerly , were made to believe the devill had such , to be frighted by them ) who , i say , would not , then fly from him , as , easily discerning him to be a devill ? so , i say , if heretical , erronious , & schismatical deceivers should at the very first shew the inside-danger & poyson of their aymes , plots , self-interests and designes intended by their heresies , errours , and schismes , who would so easily and instantly entertain them , and be so misled and abused by them ? therefore , dear christians take heed , for gods sake , of being taken with painted pretences of holinesse of life , in any man whatsoever he be : swallow not down , so easily , such gilded-pils ; or catching fish-hooks , which are onely covered-over with deceitfull baits to catch and undoe your poor plain-meaning soules . believe it , my christian friends , you try your mettalls by a very false and deceitfull touch-stone , if you look so on mens holy-lives and conversations alone ; nay , rather read , sound , and try men mainly and most especially by their soundnesse of doctrine ; for , if this fails , all is naught , i 'le warrant you . and that you may see 't is not mine , but the blessed apostle paul's judgement , and right rule of tryall , which cannot deceive , marke what he sayes , in two most pertinent places to this purpose . be yee followers of me , even as i also am of christ . no farther , or , no otherwise than i folow the lord jesus christ in sound doctrine and holinesse ; first and principally sound doctrine , and then holinesse : and to strengthen and back this to be his true meaning , indeed ; observe what this same blessed apostle , and faithfull servant of the lord sayes farther . there be some that trouble you , and would pervert the gospel of christ . but if either we ( even any of us apostles , though ever so holy ) or an angel from heaven ( for seeming sanctity or holinesse ) preach any other gospel ( or pretended truths ) than that which we have preached to you , let him be accursed to you . see here a time touch-stone , indeed , my friends , see first , to soundnesse of doctrine , without which , believe not nay , abominate , the seeming holiest men or angels , even angelicall-men that may pretend the greatest parts and piety that may be ; but having first , seen , by the right-rule , gods word , their doctrine to be sound , then , on gods name , search and see into their sanctimonie and integrity in life and conversation , and then you take the right way indeed , cordially to love and like , to follow , affect and imitate them . nay , i will bee bold to say and assure , and dare undertake to prove and justifie , by gods assistance , that , there is far more safety and sweetnesse for the soule to love and like , to follow and imitate , a christian or pastor , that is most sound and orthodox in doctrine and judgement , though subject to weaknesse : and humane infirmities : than him that seems to be most exact and strict in his outward walking and conversation , if he premeditately and invincibly ( against all perswasions and scripturall convictions ) goe on in the publike profession of errors and schismes ▪ destructive to the peace and edification of gods church and sound doctrine . but now without any farther digression ( having thus laid down these most necessary and pertinent premises ) i will by gods assistance come up close to the promised point , even our present main matter , touching the much boasted holines of life , of our independent sectaries , & shew how neer they come-up to down-right deceivers in their reall practice , testified , i say , by their own undeniable hand-writings . and , here , give me leave , good reader , in the first place for the better making fair way , and that , most briefly , for what follows ) to give unto thee , and from scripture it selfe , the perfect character , cognizance and description of a truly godly-man , a sure , pure saint , indeed , and sacred citizen of the new-jerusalem ; especially , in these two or three remarkable marks of him among divers others , viz. hee is such an one as speaks the truth from his heart ; and having thus spoken , promised , or sworn , keeps his promise , though to his own prejudice ; both these being fully and fairly connected and bound up together , in our blessed saviours most royall-law , and golden-rule : whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , doe yee even so unto them : and then also , doe but consider herewith , what the spirit of the lord sayes , concerning the contrary practisers . he that loves or makes a lye , shall be shut out of the new jerusalem among dogs , sorcerers , whoremongers , murtherers , and idolaters . now , then , i say , if our independents be found ( and that by testimonies under their own hands ) to be such as speak not the truth from their hearts ; and when they have promised and covenanted , break their promise and violate their covenant ( witnessed , i say , by their owne hands against themselves ) yea , and that when as it could be no prejudice to their livelihood , or estates , save only ( perhaps ) to their ungodly private ends ; and such as do that to others , which they would not be content should be done to themselves : then can any truly-gracious or impartiall good-man choose but , at least , greatly feare that they are not so holy-saints & godly men as they should be , or as the world too vulgarly and easily takes them to be ? truly , me thinks , they cannot . thus , then , now , to come to the try all hereof ; and , here , i will , by way of preamble , tell the reader one pretty passage , not altogether impertinent to our present purpose , touching master peters & my-self , which briefly was this , i being occasionally ( about-half-ayeer since ) at westminster-hall , was there encountred by master peters , that most pragmaticall quicquid in buccam , &c. of whom i will only say this by the way , that , whosoever loves to laugh at a sermon ( which is satans musick ) let him go heare master peters preach . this gentleman seeing me singly walking in the hall , and being my old acquaintance , came unto me , together with his independent brother , master bachiler , who heard our conference all the while , which was this . o , master vicars ( says master peters ) certainly , a great deal of repentance must needs lye upon your soule . why , master peters ( said i ) what 's the matter , what have i done ? o ( sayes he ) in sadding and grieving the hearts of gods saints , as you have done in your book , which you call the picture of independency . why sir , ( said i ) pray tell me what 's amiss in it ? truly master vicars ( says hee ) 't is naught all over , ( just , like my self , he might have added ) naught all over . is it naught all over , master peters , said i ? then , i hope you have read it all over ; and if so ; then , i beseech you said i ) since , you know , dolosus versatur in generalibus , the deceiver loves to deale in generals , shew so much candor and ingenuity toward me , as to tell me one particular passage therein , which you can make evident to be false or naught , and i assure you ( said i ) i will yeeld you all the rest to be naught without any farther controversie ; whereunto , here was all his reply ; alas , master vicars 't is naught all over , naught all over ; which words he uttering in his old , quick blustering manner , instantly ran away swiftly from me , all , which , his brother bachiler can testifie ( if he will speake the truth ) to be most true , who stood by , and heard and saw all i have related , from the first to the last . and was not here , thinke you , a brave independent champion , fit to finde fault with other mens works , and then run away , when he should give account of his slanderous words ? but , now , to come to some more serious and sollid matter , and fully to make good and confirme what i have promised and affirmed , in the frontispice of this treatise , namely , that independents ( i meane very many of the best and bravest of them ) are a generation of notorious dissemblers , and sly deceivers . most sorry i am , the lord knows , that i can so truly ( indeed too truly ) say and assure these things against them ; but in regard of their so elated and selfe-flated conceit of themselves and others too-too high opinions of them ; and also the great injurie which gods cause receives thereby , many ways , therefore , for sions sake i cannot hold my peace , & for jerusalems sake i will not rest , until the righteousnes thereof ( and the unquestionable innocency & integrity of her presbyterians ) go forth as brightnesse . and for this end to add my poor mite of zeal ( what in me is ) to help to vindicate gods abused churches honour , against these her close and subtile enemies , who have made their great and gross untruths as so many satanicall stratagems and staulking horses , to abuse and disgrace even the godliest partie of the most innocent presbyterians , by thus suggesting and protesting their palpable untruths to the more moderate , indifferent , and too credulous presbyterians among us , whereas , themselves ( the lord knows ) are the main ( if not onely ) offensive and destructiue-partie , and all this , onely to uphold ( for ought that can , to this day , be discerned , to the contrary ) maintain and enlarge their too apparent spirituall-pride , and selfe-aymes and ends , which i conceive to be most vile and ungodly in them . and because master john goodwin , in his late supercilious and unsavorie treatise , entituled cretensis , pag. . sayes , that master edwards ( in his sectarystinging gangraena ) judges , so and so , onely of some few ( at least , as hee would have it ) of those that are the retrimentitious-party or dregs of the independents and other sectaries ( to use his own words and expression ) as if ( sayes he ) a man should judge of cheap-side , by the dirtie-channel that runs in the midst of it . i therefore , here ( omitting , purposely , the most notorious jugling of m. j. g. himself most properly & fitly termed cretensis ( that is to say a lyer ) both by himself , and by reverend m. edwards in his second part of his excellent gangraena ; and pretermitting also the most unworthy double-dealing of those two grandees of the independents , master burroughs and master greenhill ( and these are none , sure , of master goodwins retrimentitious partie ) in their unfaithfull dealing with master edwards , as hee hath most fully manifested to the world , against all these three , in his said second part of the gangraena , pag. , , , &c. ) to omit these i say , as being so fully set forth as aforesaid , i will here in the first place shew to the godly and impartiall reader , diverse notable passages of some of the most eminent and highest prized independents , even of the five famous apologists , most cleerely setting forth , and that under their own hands , their most unfaithfull and deceitfull dealings with god and the world , and with their presbyterian-brethren . which i have extracted , and briefly culled-out from their so mightily magnified , and broadly bosted of apologeticall narration , attested and avouched under their own hands , of purpose ( as they , certainly , conceived and wee have justly deemed ) to paint out their own piety , and unspotted integrity to the world : whereas , contrariwise they have , thereby , even with their own pensils , blazoned abroad their own shame , and most unfaithfull double-dealing . first , then , i will begin with that poor delusive trick of theirs , of their pretended ( falsely so called ) exile or banishment out of england , which they themselves set forth in prima fronte libelli , in the very front and face of their apologie , to make the world take notice of that first and fair piece of their martyrdome , and to believe what rare suffering-saints and martyrs they were , insuffering , so sorely , for their tender-conscience sake . this you shall see apol. nar. pag. & where they tell you of their pitteous banishment , forsooth ; but , withall , fairely confesse it was a spontaneous or voluntary banishment , a banishment of their own choice and election , both for time , place , and company , ( and i may add , as easily undergone as undertaken ) for , they went into the choicest and fattest parts of all beautifull holland , no way pincht in body or purse ; for ( as reverend master edwards notes in his learned antapologie , and at large , most notably sets forth ) they were able ( some of them ) to spend two or three hundred pounds a year , and to doe other expensive acts besides . they went , i say , in their own time , were fitted with all conveniences for themselves and their families ; had brave company with them , gentlefolke of none of the meanest rank and quality ; and yet these call themselves gods poor exiles , or poor despicable , banished creatures : which , how fairly and fitly , let any godly judicious . christian , or even meer rationall creature which knows what banishment is , speake and judge by those forementioned premises . and now tell mee , good reader , whither these our independents be such fair dealers and truth speakers as the world deems them , and as the spirit of god would have them to be , according to the forementioned characters of the true saints and citizens of the new jeruselem . again , in their foresaid apologeticall narration , pag. & , they have these very words . for the congregations in england ( where , we were by the grace of christ converted , ( mark this ) and long exercised our ministry ) both in our own , and multitudes of the assemblies and parochiall-congregations thereof ( mark again those words good reader ) we make this sincere profession before god and all the world ( mark here again i beseech thee ) that notwithstanding all the defilements which we conceived to cleave to the true worship of god in them , or of the unwarranted power in church government exercised therein ; yet we ever esteemed and held this opinion of them , that they were the true churches and bodie of christ , and that the ministers thereof were true ministers , much lesse did it ever enter into our hearts to judge them antichristian : yea , wee always have protested that in these times ( pray marke these words well ) when the churches of england were most actually over-spread with defilements , and in the greatest danger thereof , we both did and would hold a communion with them , as the churches of christ , and baptized our children , and administred the lords supper in their parochiall congregations , and all this both before and since our returne from our foresaid exile . now , then , from all these premises , see and consider seriously , good reader , the independents most unjust and injurious separation from us , even under their own hands testified , and by such a deep and seeming-serious protestation , to god and the whole world protested against themselves ; wonderfull strange it is ( me thinks ) that truly , holy , and godly men should dare to deale thus , in so sacred and serious things ; nay those premises , touching our churches or congregations and ministers , being so granted by themselves , how most ungodlily and ungroundedly doe they now , and long time have forsaken our assemblies , as antichristian , and creep into corners , shops and chambers , and now adayes also some of their schismaticall brethren are not ashamed most impiously and most unjustly to preach , print , and prate against us and our assemblies directly under such notions , even as if we were abominable babylonians and antichristians . now truly my brethren , if this be to deale ingenuously , and to speake the truth from the heart , as becomes the truly godly saints and citizens of the new-jerusalem specified before to be davids character of a godly man , let any impartiall christian judge and determine . again , in the same apologeticall narration , pag. & , those five apologists and grandees of the independent faction , yea , those high-grown sauls that are taller then any of their presbyterian-brethren , by head and shoulders in parts and piety ( if we would believe the loud boasts of their sycophanticall proselites ) have these very words , in that foresaid place , evident to all that have eyes and understanding and wills , to see and read the same , viz. wee call god and men to witnesse , ( see how they here begin again with a deep asseveration ) that through the grace of christ , our spirits are , and have been so remote from a spirit of faction , division , pride , and singularity ( which are the usuall grounds of all schismes ) that we have expressed our constant forbearance , either to publish our opinions by preaching ( although wee had the pulpit free ) or to print any thing of our own or others for the vindication of our selves ( although the presses also were more free than the pulpits . ) marke good reader , i beseech thee , these their own words , and yet consider , how that most insolent and proud-spirited man mr. lilburn , in his most flashy and foul-mouthed letter , to ever to be honored mr. prinne , complains of the restraint of printers-presses , as a peece of their persecution forsooth , pag. of his said letter ) or to act for our selves , or for our way . all these foresaid particular branches of their protested forbearance , were , indeed , by them , and the presbyterian city ministers mutually covenanted to be done on both sides , but how faithfully , religiously and conscienciously they have kept and observed the same , ( yea , notwithstanding their protesting before god and men , neither to write , preach , dispute , or any way to act for themselves or their church-way , and all this , thus promised , since their last returne into england , from their fore-mentioned pretty piece of banishment ) now we will see and discover , i say , how faithfully and fairly they have kept their word and engagement herein . although , 't is most true that learned and religious master edwards hath in his elaborate antapologie given his impartiall and unprejudiced reader aboundant satisfaction touching these things , and i might here multiply many testimonies from thence of our independents self-condemnation touching the premises : yet because i maynly endevour brevity in this little treatise , i will content my self with these few following most true and undeniable self-confutations extant there in print under their owne hands ; namely , that , even , not all these apologists ( who have thus protested , as yee have heard ) have not , according to their so deep protestation before god and men , forborn to preach or print any thing of their own in the behalf of their church-way . first , then , take master burroughs his self-conviction herein ; who , in his sermons and expositions on the three first chapters of hosea , hath preached and printed severall things about and for their church-way . as , for example ; in his first lecture on hosea the second , at , , p. , . and the seventh lecture , hos. , at , , p. . and thirteenth lecture on hos. , . together with many other places in those his lectures , now extant , in print . secondly , master simpson , another of these so deep protesters , as aforesaid ; in his sermon called reformations preservation , on isaiah , . and on proverbs . , . hath , there , many things for their church-way , and for a toleration , p. , . . of those sermons . thirdly , also , master bridge , another of them , in his sermons , printed and published and entituled , babylons downfall ; and , that on zech. , at , , , & . together with many other , to be seen , in master edwards his most excellent antapol . afore-said ; but this truth being thus confirmed under the hands of three such eminent proofs and testimonies i think , it may give sufficient satisfaction herein ; besides , the very many other books and pamphlets . printed and reprinted for their church-way , since this parl. began , and since there covenant made to the contrary , all which for brevities sake , i say , and to avoid tediousnes , i willingly pretermit , and will not so much as mention , as , indeed , i need not , they being so notoriously known ( or may be known ) abroad to all that know ought herein . and as for their other kinds of acting , by themselves and others , in and for their church-ways advantage and advancement , i shall , i say , to avoid prolixity referre the reader , to the learned antapologie , p. , , &c. very worthy the reading for abundant cleer satisfaction in these premises . only i cannot forbeare to give thee one particular instance more hereof , which may ( mee thinks ) be instar omnium , to shew to the world their faithlesse craft and subtilty , yea , and most palpable double-dealing with their single-hearted presbyterian brethren , and thus , according to my promise , to let all men see ( that will not obstinately shut their eyes against such cleer and known truths ) what a godly-party and what holy-saints these independents are . the thing in brief , is this . about the beginning of the second yeer of the sitting of the parliament , the presbyterian pastors , in london , and the independents , met together , at reverend and religious master calamies house in aldermanbury , where , with mutuall consent , they all entred into an engagement one party to the other , that ( for advancing of the publike cause of a happy reformation ) neyther side should preach , print , or dispute , or otherwise act against others way ; and this to continue til both sides , in a full meeting , did declare the contrary , and by mutuall consent set each other at liberty , touching these things . and for the confirmation of this agreement , a writing or instrument was drawn , with full and cleer desire and assent of all , and also by all , there and then present , it was subscribed with every mans name ; and , this so done , was with a generall consent to be left , and so to abide , with master calamy , at his house , there to be seen at any time , by any of them that would have recourse unto it , to shew and see their agreement , all which was accordingly done , and this writing or instrument was left in master calamies custody . heere , now , let me hint this to the reader , by the way ; that , notwithstanding this writing or instrument of this their so solemne agreement ; no , nor their own fore-mentioned protestation of their own voluntary forbearance , so deeply ( but deceitfully ) professed and protested , in their apologie , to be so sacred unto them , & to be kept so strictly by them , with such deep silence ( for , these are their very words ) all these , i say , notwithstanding , they , in the interim , immediatly after , went on , in a too evident cōtrary practice , as hath bin before sufficiently declared ; and all these their protestations proved the most advantageous piece of policy , on their side , of any one that was , or could be done by them for the increasing of a party for them . just like the declarations set forth by king charles ( by means of the crafty bishops , in their late flourishing and domineering times ) that their should be no disputes , no preaching or printing on either side , for or against the arminian-points , which then were in great controversie : which declarations and inhibitions , being observed by many ministers , but not so , by the arminian-faction , was a mighty means to increase them , and to suppresse orthodox-doctrines . even so , i say , it fell out , heer , for , by this means of the agreement , nothing was preached or printed , or any way acted against their way , according to the foresaid agreement to hinder the growth of independents , on our side , ours making conscience most honestly and tenderly of their engagement . but , in the mean time , i say , many things were both preached and printed for it , as i have touched before ; which , if it were not apparent unfaithfulnesse and plain double-dealing , i know not what is . but now to come to this notable trick of theirs , acted by master philip nye , that notable independent-politician , and nimble-agent for their schismaticall church-way , which was this . the fore-mentioned writing or instrument of the mutuall agreement between the presbyterian and independent parties , being as aforesaid , left in the hands of reverend master calamy , by him to be kept and shewn and seen as occasion was offered ; it so fell out , that master nye came , one day , to master calamy , and pretended some reasons for his desire to see and borrow this writing of him for a little while ; whereupon , good master calamie , in his courtesie and singlenesse of heart , suspecting nothing amisse , but thinking he meant fairly , and would bring it again presently , as he had promised , let him have it . but he , after he had it , carried it away with him into yorkeshire , that so upon any complaints of the breach of the agreement when ours should have consulted with that writing , or shewn it against them , and brought their own hands subscribed thereunto , the writing was gone , and nothing now to shew against them ; as for conscience , they ( as it seem'd ) car'd not a rush for it ( no marvell , then , that they so cry out and plead for ( liberty of conscience ) for , this master nye hath ever since kept away this writing , and having been often intreated to restore it , his answer still hath been , that hee left it at hull among his other papers . this truth , is also fully related by reverend and faithfull master edwards , in his learned and most excellent independent frighting antapologie , and is backt also by the unquestionable testimony of our most grave and godly assembly of divines , in their most excellent answer to the seven independents most false and scandalous remonstrance , lately printed and published by the independents for the honour , forsooth of those seven authours thereof ; but which in the issue turned to their most just eternall , indelible dishonour . and are not these , then ( my deare presbyterian friends ) most soule blots and blemishes in so godly apartie , so gracious and holy saints , so cryed-up , rare christians , as independents are now a dayes hugely boasted to be ? doe these their practises , in word and deed answer to the characters of davids holy citizens of the new-jerusalem , to speake the truth from their hearts , and to keepe their promise though to their prejudice ? or , are they like our blessed saviours plain-dealing honest men , indeed , doing unto others , as they would bee done unto ? i know not , truly i cannot thinke they are . but to goe on , and to make their unfaithfull dealings , yet more evident and apparent to the whole world , and that , still , even under their own hands ; i shall now therefore , here , briefly add some few passages of their most gross double-dealing & unblushing slandering of the reverend and religious assembly of divines , in a most scandalous remōstrance of theirs touching a promised model of their new church way , most marvellously brag'd and boasted of , to be christs onely true and pure way of governing his church , and for the answerable production whereof they had been exceeding often and most earnestly urged and intreated , both by the reverend assembly , and by the religious pastors of london ; but , wherein all along from the first to this day they dealt most doubly , falsly and fallaciously . for even as at the first , when this often and urgent motion was made to them to bring in a modell of their church-government in writing to the assembly , & they accordingly promised it ; they were so far from faithfull performance hereof , first , that they secretly & sedulously had prepared printed , published & dedicated to the parliament their most proud , self-praysing ( & yet false ) apologetic all narration , never acquainting the assembly before-hand therewith , or tendring any writing of their church-government , to the assembly as they had promised , & in conscience ought to have done : just so , secondly , here , they again dealt with the reverend assembly ; for , wheras , stil the assembly earnestly moved them again and again ( for the surer and speedier composing of differences between them , and happier settlement of a blessed church government , so long and earnestly desired , as was hoped at least , by all ) that they would yet bring forth their modell of church-government ; yea , and since that also they had been earnestly importuned thereunto by master dury , a reverend , learned and godly minister of the hague in holland , ( as hath been testified by himselfe in a letter of his , sent to our assembly of divines , from the hague , march the seventh , , and extant in print , the substance whereof was to this effect . that he had oft required and intreated of these dissenting brethren , but never could obtein , to know the true points is difference , betwixt them and the other reformed churches . the like also had our london-ministers often desired but , could never , to this day , obtein their desire . but , now at length ( to come to the point ) with much fresh importunity , even almost beyond the bounds of modesty , they being thus urged , as it were , on all sides and not knowing how , with any credit , any longer to evade , they seemed ( now at last , i say ) to condescend to the thing ; and made choice of m. thomas goodwin to be the man that should manage the whole work of their promised modell ; to which purpose , hee also ( having undertaken the thing ) had for the space of at least six moneths , sequestred himself a part from his attendance on the assembly , and from his publike ministry , into the country , for his more conveniency to the work ; in which interim , ô what vaunts , brags and boasts had wee up and down by all their independent proselytes , what a rare new-modell was making , by m. thomas goodwin , and shortly to come forth , and all these brags , at least , three moneths before the famous upshot of all , and therefore great expectation was of it , on both sides , especially by all that were apt credulously to believe it , and all stood , as it were , gaping and gazing triumphantly , to see it . at last , about the end of the faid six moneths great and wonderfull expectation , that was rightly fulfilled , parturinnt montes nascitur ridiculus mus. for , in the issue of all , no modell could be produced , but instead thereof , they durst most ungodlily ( because most falsly ) and without all feare , or wit , or honesty ( as it may be feared ) exhibit to the assembly , a most absurd and scandalous apology or remonstrance , owned & subscribed by seven of their most eminent dissenting-brethren , which was afterward impudently printed and published ( and most craftily pretended to be so published clandestinely without the authours privity or consent ) under the name of a remonstrance ; both ( as they hoped ) to prop-up , if it be might be , the said authours crackt credit ; and also even perfidiously to dishonour and disgrace the whole right reverend assembly , if , i say , it had bin possible for them . in all this notwithstanding , both in their apologeticall narration , and in this their remonstrance , they seeme most seriously to professe and protest ( like cunning deceivers , indeed ) their integer carriage and honest meaning , in all the businesse , and their willingnesse and forwardnesse , always to make known what ever they held in church-government , together with their reasons , why , ( now , in the upshot of all ) they have not given in a modell of their church-government , laying the whole load ( just as our grandfather adam laid his offence upon god himself ) and the foul-fault of the only cause of their failing therein , upon the assembly of divines ; most shamelesly and falsly aspersing and bespattering the said reverend assembly , even all over ( in that remonstrance ) with very many intolerable slanderous accusations and imputations , false , i say , in every point and parcell of them ; as in the assemblies most excellent and abundantly satisfactory answer to the said remonstrance ( or reasons forsooth , of the independents or dissenting brethren ) lately set forth by authority of the honourable lords in parliament , may and doth most truly and abundantly appear . wherein pag. . they first prove the notorious unwillingnesse of these independents to make known what they hold in church-government , both from their own confession , in the forementioned apolog. narration , pag. penn'd and published by themselves , and also by the testimonie of reverend master durie aforesaid , as also of reverend and religious master apollonins , a learned divine of walachria , who also sent to the independents in london , an expresse letter , desiring them to informe him what their opinion was in those points , in difference betwixt them and the presbyterian-partie , that so he might not mistake them ( he being then appointed by the classis of walachria to set down the judgement of those reformed churches , concerning these controversies , now agitated with us in england ) but yet notwithstanding he could not obtain it from them , as himselfe hath complained , and as they themselves too well know , is most true against them . in brief , who ever desires most fully and exactly to see the falsity and notorious halting of that whole remonstrance and apologie of the independents , even all over , àcapite ad calcem ; let him seriously peruse that most full and fair answer of our learned , reverend , and religious assembly , and he shall receive abundant and most luculent satisfaction , both touching the assemblies most tender , fair and faithfull dealings with them all along ; and also touching the unquestionable truth of what i have herein writ of these unhappie independents , viz. their most unreasonable and irreligious slandering of the assembly , all along , in that remonstrance , not having delivered the truth from their heart , in any part thereof , but altogether spoken deceitfully or falsly in every of their assertions , or aspersions ( rather ) laid upon thē . and now , say ▪ good reader , are these dealings of these prime independent-remonstrants , the practises of precious saints ? are these fit actions think you , for the heads of a godly-party , so bigly boasted of , and most mightily blazed abroad in the world by the trump of flying ( i had almost said lying ) fame ? certainly then am i extremely mistaken in my poor ●udgement and knowledge in piety and probity . concerning which their most injurious molesting of the peace of gods church , and their unbridled endeavours to obtrude wayes and rules of governing gods church after their own conceited opinions , not having any ground out of gods word for the same ; i shall here desire to minde them of a most pertinent passage , very fit for this our present purpose , related by my reverend friend m. burton in his sermon entituled , for god and the king . where hee writes thus . were it a law in england as once it was among the loctians ; that whosoever would propound a new law , should come with a halter about his neck , that if it pleased not the senate , the hangman , being ready , should doe his office on him . this passage master burton , then , applyed ( and i confesse most fitly ) to the prelates of his time , for their illegall innovations , and this passage ( i verily believe ) i may as properly apply to our schismaticall independents and the rest and best of their fraternity of sectaries , who so strive and struggle to introduce ( by their new lights forsooth ) such new laws or ways of a church-government , which so justly may , and doe displease our honourable senate , and molest the whole kingdom , because they cannot prove or justifie them from gods word , if therefore that law were on foot and in force among us , at this time , and that these our sectaries should be made to come with halters about their necks , on that condition ; what a case , these our independents , together with their waspish-brethren , the anabaptists , and the rest of their rabble : of sectaries , would be in , let all wise men judge ? again , see yet farther , i pray thee , good reader , more of their palpable and apparent halting and double-dealing , still manifested under their own hands , against themselves , for , heretofore mr. john goodwin , in his innocencies triumph , his theomachia . pag. , , . and diverse others of his late pamphlets ; mr. burton also ( my old entirely beloved friend , for whom my soule mournes in secret , to see him so falne off from his former faithfull principles ) in his vindication , pag. , , . and pag. , , &c. christ upon his throne , master lilburn , also , in his frothie and most scurrilous letter , to ever to be honoured m. prinne ; the jesuiticall author or authors of the arraignment of mr. persecution , together with very many others , too tedious to recite , and to whose own abusive words , in their own writings , in high derogation of the parliaments honour and authority in ecclesiasticall affairs , for brevittes sake i refer the reader . all these independents and sectaries , i say , and many others of them did heretofore in those times of their then writings ( and , rebus sic stantibus ) when their fears were exceeding strong that the parliament would certainly establish the presbyterian-government , and their hopes extreme weake and flat of having their independent church-way set up , or so much as a toleration tolerated to them : o then i say , how was the power of parliaments in ecclesiasticall jurisdiction , or matters of religion , cryed down , abased and abused by m. goodwin , and the rest ? alas , for the parliament to take upon it the ordering of church government , or church discipline , o this was a most high and intollerable presumption in them , this was a most bold intrenching upon christs royall prerogative , with many such like terrible taxations , and heavy imputations of wrongfull usurping an antichristian legislative power and authority over the consciences ( forsooth ) of christs free born holy-ones : but now adays , of late , the case is altered , since the election of new-members of parliament in the house of commons , whereby they begin to dream , ( and i trust in god they doe but dream ) that their hopes are now upon the wing , and raised up to a high-flown pitch of conceit that the presbyterian-government shall either quite down , and not be established at all , or else so clog'd and clipt with commissioners , and such like supposed yokes , curbs and restrictions , as shall like pharao's chariots in the red-sea , take off the wheels , and make it drive on so heavily , that independents , anabaptists , and the rest , shall have fit and fair oportunities mightily to advance and hurrie on their own designes , their crafty ayms and ends , and in time bring them to perfection , and for the present enjoy a full allowance of that cursed cause of the ruine of all sound religion and sincere holinesse , libertie of conscience for all damnable sects and schismes whatsoever . o , now , therefore , i say , how is the power of parliament in matters of religion and setling of church government , cryed-up and magnified , yea , and wholy and onely , ( as it were ) appropriated to them as the main master builders of gods house , his church ? and as for the assembly of divines , they have nothing to doe therein , but so far onely as the parliament pleases to use or refuse them . witnesse , first , the peace-maker , lately printed and published , which now so struggles to uphold a peaceable-union between the parliament and the city of london , especially , ( wherein he does well , if that were all ) but why , ipray , is this designe so fairely prest and put on ? o , because we in the city may assure our selves ( sayes this peace-maker ) if through our dis-unions the parliament should miscarry in the main cause in hand , not all our most professed friends in the world can preserve us from perishing . marke these words well , good reader , the main cause in hand , and consider the times , now , and certainly the peace-maker must needs mean religion and church-government ( not the businesse of war ) to be the main cause in hand , and then take speciall notice also of his so zealously maintaining of the parliamentarie-covenant , but with this proviso , that it be in his sense , and with his glosse set upon it , which i should wonder how this author dares thus to doe ( but that i now see they dare to doe any thing ) since as he well knows what a most deadly danger the author of the protestation protested was in , in former dayes , for putting his sense , as the parliaments sense , upon that parliamentarie-protestation . besides , how does this peace-maker agree with that crafty caution-contriver , mr. i. g. in his twelve cautions against the hot-pressers of reformation ? ( as hee flashingly termes the pious presbyterians ) who cannot endure a parliamentary-covenant-reformation of religion , or rather , as i may say , a covenanting-preparative to the worke of reformation of religion , as in those his twelve serious cautions , he most subtilely and slily ( like himselfe ) insinuates , and therein paddles , and pleases his own contentious humour , pretending indeed onely piety , but ayming ( as is most easie there to be understood ) at his own most dangerous and factious ends , his principall practice and trade for these many years . besides this peacemaker , we have also one m. walwin , a most egregiously pharisaicall whisperer , pharisaicall , i say ; for , in his frothy whisper in m. edwards his eare , pag. . he takes occasion ( just as his independent masters , the five apologists did also , in their apolog. nar. of themselves , so he ) to magnifie himselfe , not whispering ( now ) but blowing a trumpet of his own high prayses , with a long-breath , and a lowd-stentorian-voice , about two pages long in quarto , and all to paint out his own person to be such a seraphicall and angelicall-saint , yea , as it were , of such an immaculate , and sublimely refined nature and celestiall-temper , as if there were nihil humani , in the man ; in so much , that , truly for my part , i professe sincerely i never read or heard of such a notorious self-flatterer in all my life ; yea , certainly far transcending the proud pharisee mentioned in the the gospell . this pharisaicall whisperer , i say , being , now , turn'd like a weathercock , with the winde of temporizing-policy hath these words in that piece of his whispering-stuff , pag. . as far as it can , in this nation ( there 's a juggle ) i am certain , it belongeth only to the parliament to iudge what is agreeable to the word of god , and not unto the assembly of divines . ah , sir , is the case thus alter'd , now ? must the parliament only be judge in matters of religion ? whereas , heretofore , neither parliament , nor assembly ( by our sectaries familiar sentence ) had any such power . nay , see how hee goes on . and god ( sayes he ) hath blessed all their undertakings , in a wonderfull manner , by the hands of conscientious people , because of their just and tender regard unto freedome in religion , notwithstanding all importunity to the contrary ; meaning , in suffering all sorts of sectaries to doe what they list , notwithstanding all honest endevours of pious presbyterians , against licentious libertines and independents . thus this whisperer . but , to go on ; see , again , the strange boldnes of these our independents , set forth yet farther , by that most audacious jesuiticall-independent , the most seditious , yea , trayterous authour of the last warning to london . how , first , he most impudently quarrels at all government , both regall , civill and ecclesiasticall , and then scornfully contends with a government established by the parliament , in these words , pag. . , & . others ( meaning of the presbyterian partie ) are troubled with another as unreasonable a humour concerning ecclesiasticall government who are undone , ruined , and torne in peeces with rents and divisions if all the people may not be compelled to worship god as they doe , or in one uniforme way by the state established . yet ( sayes he ) p. . these are they that frame oaths and covenants for you in such ambiguous expressions ( like delphian-oracles ) that you shall seem to be bound to doe any thing they shall desire , be it ever so absurd or wicked . here , now , you see , this impudent independent will not endure a worship established by the state , when he fear'd the fall of his own partie , thereby : but look upon him a little farther , and see how notoriously he playes the jugler , and palpable impostor , pag. . in these very words . minde your own good ( this he also speaks to the city of london ) and cleave fast to the house of commons ; let no sorcerie or sophistrie divide you from them , be not importunate with them for church-government , but leave it to their wisdoms to measure-out unto the clergie , what may be for the quiet and profit of the people . see here now how the case is altered with this independent ; now , all must be left to the state , to the wisdome of the house of commons , now you see a parliamentary church government is the best . but , see again , how this satanicall-deceiver goes about most audaciously and sediciously to make a rent and division between the two houses of parliament . the lords ( says he ) are not to goe before the commons in determining what concerns the nations , their large answer to your last city-petition for church-government and suppression of conventicles , insinuates they would allure you from the commons , therefore observe them watchfully , and trust them accordingly , and let not any of these estrange you from that your faithfull councel , the house of commons . this is now adays , their tone and tune ; now , i say , that they suppose ( but most falsly i hope ) that the house of commons will either curb , or cast down the presbyterian-government , or at least grant a toleration to the independent-church way . but , in the meane season , judge ô my godly brethren , is not this a most satanicall dissembler , and abominable traitor too , to peace and truth ? and are not all these men brave and bold consciencious time-servers and time-observers for their own ayms and interests ? certainly , i think they are , or else i am still mightily mistaken . nay yet again , what a strange trick have they now of late taken up to abuse us withall ? even to make our solemne league and most sacred covenant that happy & heavenly tie upon our consciences to almighty god himself to be if possibly it may be ) a mayn snare and most da●gerous dilemma ( or nose of wax ) to undo us all ( in making us abominable and nauseous covenant-breakers ) by their false wrested comments and fallacious glosses & interpretations set upon it , for the surer and subtiller advance of their own wicked aymes and ends ; telling us that the parliament intended not the sense and acceptation of it , thus and thus , according to the letter of it , as we the presbyterians take it , and undiscreetly would have it ; neither for conformity to the church of scotland , or other reformed churches ; as my old deare , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 unhappy friend m. burton in his fore-mentioned peacemaker seems to come too neer to such an interpretation of that branch of our covenant , when he sayes ; and why not rather to the churches of new-england , & yet he sees ( or may if he please ) the very church of scotland nominatim , expressed plainly in the covenant : but the letter ( they say ) must not stand for good ( but an , &c. ) sense , like the bishops oath . much , also , to this purpose , speaks that most wicked and seditious , yea , apparently jesuiticall last warning to london ; and walwin also that whisperer , and self-flated-flatterer , before more fully mentioned . and thus this godly party , these precious saints , willingly forget ( as i touched before ) or are now adayes ( without fear or piety ) most carelesse and fearlesse of the great danger of their lives , or , at least , of some severe corporall punishment , as the author of the protestation protested , once was in ( as i touched before ) for daring to wrest the sense of the covenants , orders or edicts of our wise and honourable parliamentarie senators , to their own private and most pernicious aymes and ends o tempora ! o mores ! if ever certainly , now , is that of the prophet jeremiah most truly and clearly fulfilled , and too manifest in these our independents : take ye heed , everyone , of his neighbour , and trust yee not in any brother ; for , every brother will utterly supplant , and every neighbour will walk with slanders . and for a most particular ratification of this scripture , i shall here give the reader a cleere example in an eminent independent past●r , now and long resident in this city , and well known to almost all in the city , viz. doctor homes , who succeeded reverend and religious master faucet , who being a sickly gentleman , and finding hee could not have his health well in the city , contracted with doctor homes about exchange of their livings , the one for the city , the other for the country in case of consent of the inhabitants of each place . master faucets parishioners out of their good respect and love to him , and for his desired accommodation , consented thereunto , and the rather also , as knowing the doctor to be a man of able parts , and perswaded he would live lovingly , and deale honestly and conscienciously with them , as a godly and faithfull pastor ought with his own people . after which consent the doctor procured a presentation from the ( then ) lord keeper to the bishop , and the next thing to be done was to have an induction from the bishop , but there the doctor made a stand , and desired conference with the parishioners about it ▪ to whom he declared the tendernes of his cōscience , and that he could not digest such an induction , he holding it antichristian , and yet without which he could not have the living , as the case then stood . whereupon the parishioners having very good thoughts of the doctor in those dayes , and hoping for much good by his ministry amongst them , were all of them willing to accept of him for their pastor , though he was not ( as the manner then was ) legally possest of the living provided , that the doctor should enter into bond to save the parish harmelesse from the next incumbent , for delapidations or any thing else that might befall them in that respect of the living , he not being proper incumbent . to this the doctor consented , seald the parish a bond , for the purposes aforesaid , and so the parishioners thought all was well between them , and thus it continued some few moneths , the doctor constantly preaching and officiating in his ministry amongst them ; but now at last , the doctor began to flag , and to be discontented , and would neither preach , nor doe ought else among his people as their minister , or but very seldom and discontentedly , and told the parishioners hee was troubled in minde , and bound in his spirit , and could not goe on comfortably with them , and desired therefore a conference with them all together , whereupon a meeting there was , and he then declared to them that he was much troubled in minde by reason of his engagement , and that it was a grèat hinderance to his studies , and to his other contentments , and that he could not goe on in preaching to them , till his engagement was taken off from him , making this a great argument therein , namely , that he had a wife , and that if god should take him away from her , his wife would then beliable to make good what he was bound to , but , that she was utterly unfit to deal in businesses of such a nature , and therefore , i say , he desired he might have in his bond again , or else he could not goe on comfortably in his ministry , and that if they would thus far favour and respect him , they should see how highly he should value their love therein , and how he would studie and strive to deserve it of them , bidding them trust him upon his word and promise , which accordingly they most freely and lovingly did , and gave him in the bond presently , and ever since that , they have paid soundly for it , for very shortly after hee began boldly to play reexs , to stand upon termes on tiptoe , as it were , with his parishioners , gathered an independent congregation , excluding all his foresaid loving parishioners from christian communion in their own parish church , except they would enter into a covenant with him , to walke according to his rule , which they not willing to yeeld unto he having got the keyes of the church from their clerke , keeps all the parishioners out , and will not administer the sacrament of the lords supper to any of them , not baptize any of their children , nor doe any act of a minister or pastor to his people , save what he would doe to a very turke or pagan , unlesse they will dance after his independent pipe ; and thus now the parishioners wander as sheepe without a sheepherd , glad to run into others pastures , and this they have gotten by trusting to a grave independents bare promise . and are not now the prophets words before recited , here too truly verified and confirmed ? the truth of all which though not extant in print under the doctors own hands ( as for shame is not like to be ) yet i am able to justifie by the testimonie of divers of the honest , able , religious , and understanding parishioners or inhabitants of that place , to full satisfaction . again who ever looks upon that peece of changeable taffatie , for i confesse t is finely spun ( as so are all his ) and yet interwoven with sablesilke , that is , much black-slander and jettie-jeers , i mean mr. john goodwins twelve serious considerable cautions about reformation , together with his soft and smooth probationer thereof , his independent brother master john bachiler ; o what prettie tinkling and tampering shall he there finde ( to abuse and blind-fold the understanding of their most willingly deceived and abused independent proselytes ) between the licenser and the licentious author , both upon the serious perusall of the crafty cautions themselves , and the licensers slie protestations ( there ) that he sees nothing therein contrary to sound doctrine and good manners ; and thus , in effect , hee also deals by his full approbation of my late friend mr. saltmarsh his most foggie and suffocating or choking smoake of the temple , touching which , i think , learned , grave and godly mr. ley , a reverend divine of the assembly hath sufficiently shewn him his grosse failings and weaknesses , to say no more ; and also his grones for liberty out of smectymnius , in neither of which also can mr. bachiler see any thing contrary to sound doctrine nor good manners though they bee full fraught ( especially , the grones for libertie ) with very false , falacious , and grossely misapplyed parallels , and unsavorie comparisons , between the cases or conditions and times of the dommeering prelates , ouer the truly tender consciences of the ( then ) truly godly nonconfommists , and our ( now ) pious presbyterians in their gracious and most moderate desire of unity and uniformity in sound doctrine , and scripturall discipline , with his schismaticall sectaries , in their most ungodly and ungrounded grones , or rather grunts , for abominable , yea damnable libertie of conscience , forsooth . nor can this tender conscienced licenser , to his deare independent authors , see ought amisse in master sal●marshes subtile and deceitfull treatise of free-grace , the glorious and specious deep-promising title whereof ( as learned and reverend master gatakar truly sayes , in his learned answer to that book of m. salimarshes ) on the very frontispeece , were bush enough of it self , to invite & intice ( guests ) to tast of such pretended precious liquor ; yet very much dangerous drinke of errour to be found therein , as mr. gatakar , i say , in that his learned and pious reply cleerely discovers , together also with master saltmarshes most injurious exceptions and discontents at reverend and religious master edwards his gangraena , of whom ( i mean master edwards ) i can say thus much , from master saltmarshes own mouth , on mine own particular knowledge , that i having got master saltmarsh both to heare master edwards preach in christ-church , and afterward to have much particular conference with him at my house , i and others have heard master saltmarsh give master edwards such high and honourable testimony both for his godly , sound , and satisfactory preaching , and also for his gravity , solidity , & sweetly tempered moderation in conference , as that i am confident , hee is not able to give more or better testimony and commendation of any independent or sectarie , whatsoever : yea , and he added these words unto me . i professe , sir ( says he to my selfe ) had i not thus heard m. edwards my self , i could not have believed the half thereof ; but , i am now glad i have , thus heard him , and conferred with him , that now i may ( as i will ) on all occasions , vindicate his reputation and honour , when ever i heare him traduced or ill-spoken of . or words full , to this effect . and all this , i say , i can most faithfully witnesse and testifie and so can others ) on mine own particular knowledge . truly , therefore , me thinks , had i said no more , in these respects , than what that worthy authour ( who ever he was ) of that , though succinct , yet most solid piece , entituled toichoructa , or independents razing their own foundation . wherein , he most singularly deciphers how neer the spirit of independents comes to remish jesuits , in their deceits and dissimulations , stretching their consciences beyond the the line of all fair-dealing ; had i , therefore , i say , said no more , me thinks , i had spoken enough to convince them of deep impiety and most foul iniquity , in the very way of their destructive schisme among us . nay , yet farther , take speciall notice , i beseech thee good reader , of one more even unparalell'd piece of impiety , and ( doubtlesse ) of unpattern'd palpable iniquity most worthily mentioned to their eternall and indelible shame and infamy by the foresaid authour of that toichoructa , which you shall finde exactly set downe , in that notable piece , pag , , . wherein hee shews how notoriously dissemblingly and unconscionably the independents of the assembly at westminster dealt with their presbyterian brethren , there , about commissioners to judge of sins not ennmerated in the ordinance touching admitting or not admitting to the sacrament of the lords supper . against which , when our presbyterian-divines desired their dissenting-brethren of the independent faction to joyn in a petition with them to the house of commons ; and although it is a thing which independents cannot according to their principles allow of ; yet , now , upon this just desire of their presbyterian-brethren , they answered ; the thing the assembly desired was good , yet they could not joyn with them therein because it might be a hinderance to a greater good which themselves desired . here 's policie to the purpose , indeed . and ( as the same authour goes on ) whether the independents have not had their hands deep in the promoting the businesse of commissioners and obstructing those wayes which might have prevented it i appeale to their owne consciences . now , if any one ask ( as well as wonder ) upon what principles , the indep●ndents can , in conscience , consent and approve of , yea , promote and farther ( as 't is too evident they have ) the laying on of such burthens upon other mens shoulders , as themselves cannot in conscience submit unto ? i answer , on what principles of conscience they thus proceed , i know not , but their prin●iples of policy , are divers and deep ; as first , themselves never meant to be unde● such bonds , but either hoped to get a formall toleration for their way , and exemption from such a rule , or at least , resolved to practise toleration in their seperated congregations , whether the magistrate tolerate it or not , unto them ; and therefore cared not how straight and pirching those or any bonds were made for others . thus and more , to this purpose , this worthy authour . now if all these be not prety independent tricks to play fast and loose with their brethren , i know not what belongs to fair play above board . and all these things being so evident and apparent to all truly pious and impartiall christians , that are not wilfully blinde , and so conspicuous under their own hands ( for the most part ) even all i have hither●o written of them , i cannot but exceedingly wonder how it should come to passe , that mens eyes and understanding ( especially too many even of the intelligent presbyterian party ) should be so blinded or rather besotted , and that their reason should be so gull'd and del●…ded , as to believe these and such like pernitious and perfidious pr●ctices to be consonant and agreeable to such pious-men and precious-saints ( i mean , i say , the heads and ring-leaders of them especially ) as the world cals and conceives them to be ; and therefore , they say , they dare not speak against them , or think evill of them ; considering i say in the first place ( as a sure ground to build their judgement on ) these scripture-marks and characters of a truly holy-saint and gracious citizen of the new-jerusalem ; and how d●ame●rally opposite thereunto , these independent sectaries walk , and how egregiously discrepant and remote they are from them . and , since , as our blessed saviour says , in the mouth , or testimony of two or three witnesses , every word or truth shall be established . i hope , this cloud of unquestionable self-condemning-testimonies , even as it were out of their own mouthes , and under their own hands ( the most of them ) may be abundantly sufficient , for the future , to stop the mouthes of our independent antagonists , and to satisfie the false conceits of any neutrall gainsayers , yea , and to make ( if it bee possible ) the boldest of them to blush and hold their tongues , or hide their faces for shame of themselves and their deceitfull and wicked way . and yet , i must confesse , i may seem , herein , to be much mistaken ( especially in the opinion of independents , object . and such as harken or adheare to them ) for , they have , most cunningly got a brave varnish to glaze over all these objections , and a fine back-do●e of evasion to get out at , from all these censures and surmises of presbyterians touching all these the independents seeming miscarriages ; namely , that all this which i have hitherto urged against them , as subtilties and deceivable errors , schismes or enormities , they finely and fairly call and count glorious new-lights , and rare-revelations . and , hence it is ( they will assure you ) that at the first they told us ( in their apologeticall narration ) that they would positively determine nothing in their church way or church-government , but forsooth , wait in expectation ( still ) of new-light , and so keep a reserve , to help themselves at a dead lift , for so are mr. burtons own words in his vindication . but hereunto , i answer , is not this a cleere jesuiticall juggle , and most like unto the popish equivocation , whereby the jesuits , seminarie-priests , and all jesuited papists did familiarly use to help themselves at a dead lift , answ . when they were examined upon any serious questions , even by a mentall reservation or equivocation to help themselves , i say , and thereby did they the more cunningly deceive the most acute argumentators and interrogating disputans that came against them ? and would not our independents , now adayes , by this their fine-trick of new-lights , forsooth , befool our faith , and make us believe they doe all now , by rare revelations ? herein , i say , dealing with us , just as the jesuites did with their proselytes and opposites too , in the point of transubstantiation , labour to make them believe that the bread and wine in the lords supper , were truly ; really , and corporally transubstantiated into the very body and bloud of christ even the very same which suffered and was shed on the crosse in all respects , though there was no visible change ( either to sight or sense ) in the bread or wine , but they still remained the same which they were before they were consecrated , whereof , when they were told so , they presently answered that it was so trāsinutated or changed by a miracle , forsooth , which indeed was a ridiculous and absurd answer ; for we never read of any miracle wrought either by any of the prophets , christ himself , or his apostles , but it was reall , evident , and visible , both to sight and sense to be a miracle indeed : even so i say to out independents , concerning their reserve or new-lights , tell them of any of their new & upstart errors , or vaporous enthusiasmes , or newly-revived-opinions or conceits , but indeed meer old errours ( call them what you please ) rak't out of the rotten ashes of ancient hereticks and schismaticks , presently their smooth and deceivable answer is ; o sir , these are not errours but new-lights , newly and rarely revealed to us by some sodain and secret inspiration , and when we demand or desire to have it made out unto us by gods written word , that they are reall and demonstrative , new-lights indeed , that we may evidently discerne them to be such , by that truest tonch-stone , the word of god , and not to be empty meteors and crotchets of their own brains ; then , alas , either through ignorance and deceivablenesse they cannot , or else with as much impertinencie as obstinacie , they will foolishly and falsely urge that of the prophet joel , and it shall come to passe , that i will poure out my spirit upon all flesh , and your sons and your daughters shall prophesie , &c. and your young men shall see visions . whereas this prophesie of joel ( as the apostle peter told the jews ) was clearly prophesied of , and mainly fulfilled in those times of the apostles , and then after our saviour christs ascention ( which were called those last-dayes , as all the learned observe ) the lord indeed poured out his spirit on all flesh , on young and old , male and female , and gave them power of admirably doing miracles and wonders , and then i say ( as the apostle peter , in that forecited scripture said ) was this prophesie of joel most apparently fulfilled , and so continued all the time of the apostles lives , and some of their holy disciples , even to about the time of the destruction of jerusalem . but what 's this to our times , wherein ( and long time before ) miracles are ceased ? can any of us dare to assume the extraordinary power of the spirit of god , to doe miracles , and worke wonders ? is it a miracle or a wonder ( indeed , i confesse it may be , to see such intolerable impudence ) to see young saucie boyes ( in comparison ) bold botching taylors , and other most audacious illiterate mechanicks , to run rudely and rashly ( and unsent for too ) out of their shops into a pulpit ; to see bold impudent huswives , without al womanly modesty , to take upon them ( in the naturall volubility of their tongues , & quick wits , or strong memories onely ) to prate ( not preach or prophesie ) after a narrative or discoursing manner , an houre or more , and that most directly contrary to the apostles inhibition ; but where , i say , is their extraordinary spirit poured out upon them , either in the gift of tongues ( except it be the lying and the slanderous tongues , which are rather the gifts of the evil spirit , as the apostle james testifies ) in gifts of miraculous healing the sick and sore , and such like ? where , i say , are any of these in our old or young tradesmen , or bould beatriceses of the female sex ? and does not the apostle peter most punctually come up to this very thing of our independents , even to shew us this most notable dissembling and fallacious trick of new-lights , and fained revelations , which he foresaw would follow his departure out of his earthly-tabernacle , , and therefore forewarns the people of god to beware of them , telling them , verse . that he and the rest of the faithfull apostles used not cunningly devised fables ( or new inventions of their own or other mens brains ) when they made known the power and comming of the lord jesus unto them . adding at length this most immoveable and infalible rule for them to walk by , and to be guided with , ver. . but we have a more sure word of prophesie , whereunto you doe well that yee take heed , as unto a light that shineth in a darke place , till the day dawn , and the day-star ( of truth ) arise in your hearts . away , then , with this notorious deceitfull trick of new-lights ( for shame ) and of your rare revelations ; cheat not the people of god and your own soules , especially , with these deceivable devices of your own brains , and schismaticall spirits . but , this , most certainly , is the independent way , now adayes , among us , to the great disturbance of the peace and comfort of the people of the lord , and when we justly tell them of their unfaithfull dealing , and down right deceiving , by this their trick of new-lights ; o then , just as the jesuits and popish priests , in queene maries dayes , and of later times , called those that would not believe their popish trick of transubstantiation to be a miracle , they called and counted them , i say , hereticks : so these our independents ( if we will not , and cannot in our consciences , nor by any of their demonstrations , beleeve their trick of new-lights to be a scripture revelation of some rare truth of god not formerly known but a meere conceit , yea , a plain deceit ) ô then presently , i say , our independents call and count us ( as my selfe heard master burroughs deliver such an expression in one of his lectures at michaels in corn-hill ) carnall and prophane presbyterians , grievers and despisers of the saints and godly party , forsooth , and contemners of the gifts of the spirit , whereas indeed there is no such thing in them , but they most palpable and impudent impostors . and thus , the lord knows , they goe about deceiving and being deceived , and truly , hinc illae lachrima , heer 's the source , the rice and originall of all these unhappie and unholy jars and divisions between us ; they are so nimble and quick-sighted in apprehension of new-lights , and we are so dull and obtuse ( if they will have it so ) and hard of belief to be led , or rather misled by them , as not being able to discerne so much out of gods word , till when , we shall ever question and quarrell at this novell and vain device of theirs . but again , our independents have one trick more , at least to put us object finely off from our just objurgations with them , and accusations of them , concerning their most dangerous and damnable errours , now adayes broacht by them , and brag'd of among them , viz. that wee are too uncharitable in thus upbraiding the saints with their infirmities , forsooth ; yea , and ( as i touch'd before ) in laying the failings and slips of onely the retrimentitious ▪ partie ( as master iohn goodwin terms them , as before ) that is , in plain english the excrements or dregs of sectaries , independents , anabaptists , and such like . where first answer . take notice , good reader , by way of reply hereunto in generall , that master iohn goodwin confesses , there is a retrimentitious or excrementall-partie among his saints . secondly , that he calls and counts their dangerous , damnable , and blasphemous errours , with the rest of their foul impieties , but sins of infirmity . but more particularly to the first , i briefly answer , that as i have sufficiently made it clear , all along in this treatise , they are not onely the retrimentitious-partie of their independent saints , that deale thus dangerously and deceitfully with us , but the very best and bravest , yea , seemingly , gravest grandees of them all . secondly , is not master iohn goodwin , or any of the rest of them ashamed , to call such abusive and abominable errours and such foul and frequent facts of impiety ( as they are too justly taxed with , and found guilty of ) sins onely of infirmity ? can he or they make us beleeve that they know not how to distinguish between sins of weaknesse or infirmity , and reigning-sins , church-disgracing and conscience-wounding abominations ? for my part i conceive ( under correction ) sins of infirmity are such as are committed either ignorantly , or if knowingly , yet ) fearfully , and with much reluctation of spirit , seldom , and that with much vehement repentance and godly sorrow after conviction , with purpose and bent of heart ( by gods grace ) to be more watch full against them for the future , and such like . as for reigning-sins , i conceive them to be , sins committed or acted knowingly , affectedly , promeditately , resolutely , constantly , or frequently and familiarly against all evidences of conviction or exhortation against them , yea , and so far from repentance for them , as to justifie them and rejoyce and boast in them ; together with such like other sad symptomes thereof . now , whether very many of our profest independents embrace or act their dangerous errours , lying , double dealing , and the like , as aforesaid , in the former or in the latter capacity or condition , as sins of weaknesse or of wilfulnesse , and affected obstinacy , i leave themselves to judge and faithfully to examine their own hearts and consciences ( for , to their own master they stand or fall ) and to all others also , who impartially observe and take notice of their carriage and conversation ; especially , upon serious consideration of those characters of a true saint , which i have faithfully fore-mentioned to them ; all that i will , for my part , say herein , is , to tell you my strong fears , that , in regard of the premises , i cannot but greatly suspect and doubt , in the latter capacity ( i say , very many of them ) so proud , so pragmaticall , so insolent and obstinate are they in a most ungrounded defence of their evils and errours ; and on these grounds , i must confesse i cannot judge more tenderly of them . and again , i say , in yet more full answer to this objection ; how dare any of them call or account any the ( seeming ) least of their errours , small-sins or no-sins , being against the eternall truth , of our most pure object . and holy god ? and whereas in the last place they cry out against us , and tax us , not onely of want of charity , but asperse us with plain impiety , for urging against them , and accusing them openly or inprint , of their foul offences , and openly taught and maintained dangerous errours , schismes , and enormities , and of their damnable doctrines and opinions : i say , and will avouch and maintain it , that our work and way herein , is both holy , honest , and warrantable from the word it self ; and particularly from that of the apostle paul , who answ . himselfe tels us , that , when peter ( who at that time seemed a pillar of gods house , the church ) did that which was worthy of blame , and that , openly , to the prejudice and so and all of gods people and cause : this blessed apostle , i say , tels us , that he withstood peter and rebuked him , even to his face for his dissimulation , and for being a means ( thereby to ensnare barnabas also into the same foule fault with him ; even the very same , whereof i now here complain in our independents and their schismaticall brethren , namely , dissimulation or double-dealing . yea , and ( as the same blessed , wise , and holy apostle said ) they are most worthy to be even most sharply rebuked , and also openly , in regard they have offended and dissembled so openly , even in print , therefore are , i say , to be reproved in paint , whereas , indeed , had they offended but in private , god forbid , but we should tenderly have dealt in private with them . and this indeed hath been a main ground of the quarrell between reverend master edwards , and his independent antagonists , who have most injuriously abused him with slanders , onely , or mainly for his zealous opposing , and sharpe reproving the open errours , schismes , and scandalous miscarriages of these men , who can be content to dishonour god and his truth , but cannot endure to be taxt and told of it , though the apostle tels them they are worthy to be blamed for it , and therefore in this respect , though ( according to that old axiome , amicus socrates , amicus plato , magic tamen amica veritas , though such an one is my friend , and such an one is my old acquaintance and friend , yet , by gods grace , truth is and shall be my best friend , yea , and i say as my blessed lord and master christ jesus said , to this end was i born , and for this cause came i into the world , that i should bear witnesse ( with the rest of gods faithfull ones ) to the truth ; and fully and faithfully to speake and declare the truth with all holinesse , godly zeal , courage and impartiality against whomsoever , in this case neither regarding the favours or frowns of any , but onely ayming at the glory of my god , which , i say , was the main end of my creation . but to conclude and shut up all i have now to say , it is most probable that our independents , and the rest of their schismaticall fraternity ( for as i have formerly toucht , i make account all the rest of the sectaries , are for certain independents ) object . will again , now at last object and say unto me ; that all this while i have but pleased my selfe , in beating the ayre , and shooting at rovers , being wide of the marke and much mistaken , in all that i have taxed and accused them with all , for none of them are at all perswaded or convinced in their consciences , that any of those which master edwards , or i , call errours or schismes , are schismes or sins , but ( as answer . was touched before ) new-lights , and new-revealed truths . whereunto i answer , with sorrow of soule for their sakes , i easily , indeed , believe they will say so , and i cannot much marvell at it , since ( as those demetrians said ) by this craft they have got much gain . and since i see this is their obstinate and inflexible resolution , thus , still , to say and hold , and that they are before hand resolved ( for private interests and self-aymes sake ) that no clearest demonstrative reasons or argumentations ( no though from apparent scripture , or scripture-consequences ) shall beat them off , or disswade them from these satans strong stratagems of new-light , new-revelations , keeping reserves , and liberty of conscience ; i therefore will say no more unto them , but with the spirit of the lord , said to obstinate and incorrigible ones ; hee that is unjust , let him be unjust still , and he that is filthy let him bee filthy still ; and he that is righteous , ô let him be righteous still ; and hee that is holy , let him be holy still ? onely , i herein may comfortably say to mine own heart , liberavi animam meam : yet , as the religious bonds of piety and charity binde me ) from my soule i shall unfainedly pray ( as the lord knows i daily doe ) that god would in the riches of his grace in christ jesus open their eyes and speake to their hearts , shew them the evill of their ways , and the great danger of their destructive errours , to the ruine of the whole kingdom , yea , of the three whole kingdoms , if they doe not timely retract and repent of those great and gangrene evils and blasphemous errours , which have enflamed almost the whole kingdom ( by their new-lights ) as so many firebrands to set on fire three whole kingdoms , i say , if the lord in mercie ( by the wisdome , piety , and impartiallity of our parliament ) quench not the flame in time , and graciously reconcile us not together by godly peace , unity , and unanimity of spirit , which the lord in much mercie grant unto us for his sake , who is the prince of peace , truth , and love , and of all godly order , even the lord christ the righteous , to whom be all honour , praise , dominion , with holy and hearty universall obedience , for ever , amen . the opinion and advice ( as it is deemed ) of monsieur de moulin , professor of divinity , in the vniversity of sedan , in france ; concerning the opinion of those who are named independents , in england . wherein , the inconcinnity and unreasonablenesse , if not apparent impiety of independents , in the mayn point of classicall-discipline , is most evidently discovered , by this eminently reverend and learned divine , to the shame and silence of our obstinate independents . sir , a certain friend of mine , an honest religious man hath given me notice , that certain persons doe finde fault with the order and discipline established in our church ; in which , the consistory are subject to the colloquies , and the colloquies to the provinciall synod ; and the provinciall to the nationall synod . and their desire is to have every particular consistory or congregation of one and the same absolute authority , independent from any superiour authority or assembly whatsoever . upon which , my said friend earnestly desired to have my opinion or judgement on the matter ; which , being of such a nature and importance , i could not any way decline , or deny his request , which , i have here set down , and is as followeth . i say , that those which propound this opinion ought in no manner or wise to be hearkened unto ; for if in case this their opinion were followed , there could nothing else ensue but the certain ruine of the church , and an extreme confusion , for the severall reasons , heer following . first , it happeneth often times , that two ministers of one parish or congregation , fall our and are at variance , and thereupon they separate and divide the congregation into two factions , in such an occasion of necessity , there must needs be the helpe of a superiour authority . secondly , the church or congregation hath but one minister , and he leads an ungodly life , to the scandall of the church , and the consistory of that congregation censureth him , all being of one accord or if it happen that the said consistory be divided , and of two opinions , there can be ( surely ) in such a case , no remedy , but by a superiour power and authority of colloquies or synods , who have power to depose and appoint such ministers ( or such a minister ) if there be but one ) as they shall think fit , and they or he desiring to be deposeth ? who shall depose him , the elders onely of the consistory , or the whole congregation or assembly ? shall they give sentence against them or him ? thirdly , if any one of the congregation bee unjustly suspended from the holy communion or absolutely excommunicated , unto whom shall he direct himselfe to be re-admitted to the congregation ; or to whom shall be direct his complaint , if so be the consistory who have unjustly suspended or excommunicated him , have an absolute authority to themselves without dependencie upon any other ? if any new heresies happen to be raised in any church , and that some ministers and congregations become infected therewith , what remedy is there to avoid this great evill , but by a synod , who may examine and depose the obstinate minister or partie who infecteth the church ? had not the synod of dort remedied this evill , the arminianisme was spreading it selfe over that whole countrey , and had unavoidably prevailed . for in case that every consistory or parish had been absolute of themselves and independent , they might have refused the resolution of the said synod , alleadging that they were not subject to synods , but had an absolute authority within themselves . it is the chiefe and peculiar work of synods , which they always first take in hand , to heare the complaint of particular churches , and to judge of appeals : if these be taken away from the synods , they need no more to meet , for they have nothing to doe : for to no purpose should they pronounce their judgements , if they might govern according to their own mindes , as if every parish were made a particular soveraignty which would be an order , which was never practised nor used in any place since the apostles . there are many small parishes in the countrey , where the consistory is composed of one minister ( of none of the greatest capacity ) and of foure or five countrey-men , or clowns , who are elders of that church : and shall to such a church be given such an absolute independent authority ? and if their minister happen to die , will you believe those clowns sitting to judge of the capacity of a new minister , to give him the imposition of hands , or to order in this case what ever may be needfull ? if upon occasion of wars or distractions in the kingdom , it be necessary to keepe a day of fasting and humiliation , through all the churches in the kingdom , who shall ordain this fast , or who shall appoint the day of celebration thereof ? if it be necessary to remonstrate to the kings majestie , the complaint of all the churches in generall , who shall depute the partie that shall present the petition of the churches of the whole kingdom ? if upon any occasion it be found needfull to alter any thing in the discipline of the church in generall , and to make any new necessary orders in the same , to be observed generally , can this be done by particular consistories being independent , and who are not subject to any generall ordinance ? in brief , it ought to be believed that the dependencie of particular churches to superiour powers , is that which maintains the union of the church , and this being taken away , there would remain no more correspondencie , but a wilfull and wofull confusion would soon appear . no man ought to be judge in his own cause . but if there happen a contention between two churches ( as it happeneth too often ) neither of these two churches can be judge in their own cause , and of necessity there must be reliefe by a superiour authority , else all will be naught between them , i will not believe ( though i confesse there is cause of jealousie ) that those that desire this independencie have any intelligence with the enemie , and that thereby they seeke ( under pretence of reformation ) to bring us into a confusion , or at least to expose us to the laughter of our enemies , though , i say , i fear this , by many symptomes thereof , i rather will ( in charity ) believe they err through want of experience , and knowledge of what is profitable for the church of god . the end of every good christian and common-wealths man , is to glorifie god in maintaining his true religion , to serve the king in the preservation of his royall person and dignity , and to procure the common good in maintaining justice , and liberty of the subject and kingdom . all these ( though three branches ) arise and spring from one root , and have the same essense and being : but it is impossible that any man should truly affect the king or common-wealth that is slight and negligent in religion , nor can any man fully discharge his duty to god , that is not carefull of king and common-wealth , see then ô independents , by this foresaid solid judgement , how feeble and false , yea , how dangerous and destructive your independent church-way is . the lord open your eyes to see it , and give you hearts affected with much sorrow for your obstinacie in it , and in his good time , graciously convert you from it , to embrace peace and truth with your presbyterian brethren , thus prayes . yours , j. v. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- ill weeds grow apace . want of weeding of gods garden , the church . plain-english . pretended piety and holinesse of life one great cause of the growth of independencie . pretence of preaching sound doctrine another cause of independents growth among us . schismaticks are like salamanders . pretence of preaching sound doctrine a cause of independents growth . sound-doctrine overthrown by our independents . a pregnant s●●●le . the word & sacraments are the vineyard or garden of the lord . godly government or scripturall church-discipline is the wall or fence about it . fals-doctrines preached and broached by independents and other sectaries . object . answ . toleration & liberty of conscience the only inlets for all other abominable opinions . iudges . , . independents and all other sectaries compared most fitly to sampsons foxes . pretended piety a second cause of independents growth among us . the seeming holinesse of hereticks of the primitive church . the outward seeming holy lives of the scribes and pharisees in our saviours time . cor. . , . mark this , ô all yee honest and plain hearted christians , that are apt to be deceived and seduced . holinesse of life is a false touchstone to try sound men by . cor. . . soundnesse in doctrine is a true touchstone to try a sound man by gal. . , . soundnesse in doctrine though accompanied with humane infirmities is a safer way to try men , than seeming-exact walking accompanied with errours in doctrine . the main promised point , now , proved . the certain characters of a truly godly-man . psal. . , . matth. . . revel. . . a pretty passage concerning m. peters . independents a generation of notorious dissemblers & sly deceivers . isaiah . . cretensis , p. . m. iohn goodwins retrimentitious-party of sectaries . the five famous apologists . the apologeticall narration intended by the independents for their credit , proved far otherwise . the apologists are gods poore exiles ; and how . antapol . p. . apol. nar. p. . apol. nar. p. . & . see heere the most strange & unblushing false dealing of the independents with presbyterians , contrary to their own words and protestations . another notable and undenyable false dealing of the independents with the presbyterians . antapolo . p. see heere also how most unblushingly the independents deal falsly with the presbyterians . a notable passage of fallacy , in the independents acted by mr. phil●p nye , one of their grand politicians . a remarkable discovery of the independents notorious subtilty & double-dealing . mr. nye palpably coozens mr. calamy of the writing or instrument that tyed the independents to be honest . antapol . p. the most shamelesse & slanderous remonstrance against the assembly of divines owned and subscribed by seven of the most eminent independents . the independents double-dealing about their apolog. narration . the strange & most urgent & earnest importunity of the presbyterians to procure a modell of the independents church-government . answer to the remonstrance mr. tho : goodwin , at last , chosen , by the independents to frame their new-modell of their church-way . parturiunt montes nascitur ridiculus mus. a most shamelesse and slanderous remonstrance against the assembly exhibited to the assembly ( instead of their new-modell ) by seven of the most eminent independents . the perfect practice of deceives . an answer of the assembly of divines to the remonstrance of the independents in mr. burton in his sermon ; for god and the king , p. . a fair tale told by the sectaries for themselves . still , more notorious double dealing , under the independents own hands . mr. iohn goodwin . mr. burton . christ upon his throne . mr. iohn lilburn . arraignment of mr. persesecution . the notorious double-dealing of independents touching the power of parliaments in church-government and matters of religion . the peace-maker , pag. . &c. the protestation protested . mr. i. g. in his . serious . cautions , &c. luke . , . the last warning to london . our holy covenant made an ensnaring dangerous dilemma to our consciences by the independents subtilties . the peace-maker . ierem. . . an independent jugling trick play'd by doctor homes with his parishioners . ier. . . mr. iohn bachilers approbation of a company of most pernicicious & schismaticall pamphlets , yet pretends all to be pious , sound and good . m. saltmarsh his singular testimony of m. edwards his preaching and conference . toichoructa , or , independents razing their own foundation . a remarkable piece of independents impiety . mat. . . a prettie independent evasion of all hitherto urged against independents . new-lights . vindication p. . donec ad triarios redieritres . independents emptie new-lights , and popish equivocation compared together . ioel . . acts . , . the extreme impiety , folly , and absurdity of the audacious sectaries both man and wom●n of our times , under a pretence of new-light , from the prophesie of ioel. cor. . tim. , & pet. . . iam. , , . here is an old light , and a true light indred . the independent saints infirmities must not bee medled with . cretensis , p. . not only the retrimentitious-party , but the gravest grandees of the independent-party . sins of infirmity briefly described . ragining sins briefly described . no errour into be accounted a small sin . the independents tax the presbyterians with piety for writing against their errours openly . galat. . . ibid. . . titus . . iohn . acts . . revel. . . reasons against the independant government of particular congregations: as also against the toleration of such churches to be erected in this kingdome. together with an answer to such reasons as are commonly alledged for such a toleration. presented in all humility to the honourable house of commons, now assembled in parliament. by tho. edvvards, minister of the gospel. edwards, thomas, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) reasons against the independant government of particular congregations: as also against the toleration of such churches to be erected in this kingdome. together with an answer to such reasons as are commonly alledged for such a toleration. presented in all humility to the honourable house of commons, now assembled in parliament. by tho. edvvards, minister of the gospel. edwards, thomas, - . england and wales. parliament. [ ], p. printed by richard cotes for jo. bellamie, & ralph smith, dwelling at the signe of the three golden lions, in corne-hill neere the royall exchange, london : . reproduction of the original in the british library. eng sects -- england -- early works to . religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . great britain -- church history -- th century -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no reasons against the independant government of particular congregations:: as also against the toleration of such churches to be erected in t edwards, thomas c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - pip willcox sampled and proofread - pip willcox text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion reasons against the independant government of particular congregations : as also against the toleration of such churches to be erected in this kingdome . together with an answer to such reasons as are commonly alledged for such a toleration . presented in all humility to the honourable house of commons , now assembled in parliament . by tho. edvvards , minister of the gospel . cor. . . and the eye cannot say unto the hand , i have no need of thee , nor againe the head to the feete , i have no need of you . rom. . . now i beseech you brethren marke them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned , and avoid them . london , printed by richard cotes for jo. bellamie , & ralph smith , dwelling at the signe of the three golden lions , in corne-hill neere the royall exchange . . to the honorable the knights , citizens , and bvrgesses of the commons house of parliament . t is not unknowne to you , right noble and worthy senators , that the great and present controversie of these times is about the church , and church government . in the dayes of luther , zuinglius , calvin , bucer , and the rest of those worthies , the controversie of that age , was concerning the sacrament of the lords supper , being generally stiled bellum sacramentarium , and the sacramentary controversie , the contention about it ( even amongst the servants of god ) being so sharpe , that it produced most sad and wofull effects . the e was not any one thing more hindred the cause of god , or the free passage of the word , or the progresse of the worke of god begun in the church then this . this weakened and wounded the protestant party , their weapons being turned each against other , this made them a gratefull spectacle to their enemies , this strengthened the popish side , they placing more confidence in their cause by these differences than in all other wayes besides . this sacramentarie controversie kindled such a fire in many reformed churches , that it even burnt them up , and turned them much a side from that true edification which is in christ , and in the practise of godlinesse : and hath proved such a lasting fire , that it is not quenched till this day ( although those churches have had sword , famine , and pestilence , to put it out . ) now in our dayes in this kingdome , the chiefe question is about the church and the discipline of the church , and our controversie may fitly be tearmed the disciplinary controversie , which however it differs from the sacramentary in the subject matter , yet it is too like it in the manner , & way of it , being likely to bring forth as sad births and fruites as did that ? what ? is it not so , that we do see already ( that i may speake with hierome ) that our differences about the church and discipline are the losse of friends , the gaine of enemies , and the publicke flames of divine wrath ? the great differences in this kingdome about the church and discipline , are one of the saddest and greatest symptomes of gods displeasure against us . these contentions and opinions make us forget the proper causes of god , and that maine building up of one another , which is in faith and love , so crastily doth that old serpent know how to delude our ignorance ; ( as iurius speakes upon a like case . ) oh there is such a fire kindled in this kingdome about these points , that unlesse the lord looke downe from heaven , and graciously be pleased to quench it timely , it may hazzard the burning and consuming all . now it is the duty of all the sonnes of sion to endeavour in their places , the putting out this fire , before it goe too farre , as by povring out buckets of teares and prayers before the lord , so by all other good wayes , but especially of the ministers of the gospell by all meane , both by themselves and by stirring up of others to doe it . the serious consideration of which hath stirred up in me strong resolutions , to lay out my selfe ( according to that measure of the gist of christ bestowed upon me ) for the healing of this schisme , and quenching this fire . now the first borne of this kind ( though not the first conceived ) is this present treatise against independant government , and the toleration of it , which i here humbly present to this honourable house , submitting it to your grave judgements , and serious considerations , humbly desiring your acceptance of it : now the reasons moving me to take this boldnesse , to dedicate this booke to your honours , are these . first , that great and generall liberty you grant of free accesse to your honourable house , unto all rankes of persons , in this kingdome , both by petitions and bookes . secondly , that hereby i might take an occasion to testifie my humble duty and thankefullnesse unto , together with my high thoughts and estimation of this honourable house for all the indefatigable paines and care bestowed on the publicke ; seeing that by you ( under god , and the kings most excellent majesty ) i , and hundreds of my brethren , enjoy so great quietnesse and freedome in our ministeries , estates , persons , ( after so great a storme ) and that very worthy deeds are done , both to us , and to this nation by your providence , we accept it alwayes , and in all places , most noble patriots , with all thankfullnesse , and here i offer to you the first fruites of my labours , as a lasting monument of gratitude . thirdly , that by presenting it to you , both my selfe and booke might here take sanctuary , and have your protection against the many calumnies and reproaches which will be cast upon us from that spirit of separation . neither flye i to this honourable house , as if i were conscious to my selfe of any crimes or just grounds of such revilings ( for had i not innocency and integrity in my actions , and intentions , i durst not present this booke to this just and honourable house , as knowing well you are a refuge onely for innocent and oppressed persons , and persons who seeke the publicke good ) or , as if i were not fore-armed to beare them ; i know whom i serve in this worke , and that therefore , whoever doth willingly detract from my name , doth but adde to my reward ; i know also t is a royall priviledge for a man to beare ill when he hath done well , and i have long agoe given my backe to the smiters , and by the grace of christ hope to beare all calumnies with much quietnesse of spirit , having in part learned that lesson to goe through bad report ( even amongst good men ) as well as amongst evill men , and to be counted an enemy ( as paul was ) for telling the truth ; but i therefore present it to your honours , and put it under your shadow , that so your countenance and acceptance of it ( according as you finde it ) may counter-ballance and weigh downe with all sorts of men , the calumnies and censures cast upon it , to hinder that good intended by it , and may the more commend the worke to make it take with many for their satisfaction . fourthly , i take this boldnesse , that so i might have an opportunity , to move and stirre you up , most noble worthies , to put to your hands for the earely and timely compounding of this great controversie about the church , and church government : when fires are begun in great cities and townes , or tumults raised , the fathers of families , and the citizens run to the magistrates and governours to acquaint them with the case , and to desire their helpe , who having power to command both men , armes , waters , engines , buckets from every quarter , the fire is quickely out , and the peace setled . now be pleased to suffer me to mind you of that which few or none doe , namely of our danger from errors on the right hand , the growing and spreading evill of this present time . every one minds you by petitions , sermous , bookes , concerning the reformation of this church , in government , ministery , ceremonies , and worship ; and god forbid that a word should ever fall from my mouth , or my pen draw a line , to call you off from it . goe on strongly and fully in the worke of reformation to purge this church thorowly , and purely to take away all our drosse and tinne ; cast out of the way all stumbling blocks , & gather out all things that offend , let nothing be left to hurt or to destroy in gods holy mountaine ; break downe all images and crucifixes , throw downe all altars , remove the high places , breake to peeces the brazen serpents , which have beene so abused to idolatry and superstition , put out the unpreaching and scandalous ministers , take a course for setting up good pastors and ministers in every congregation , and in your great wisdomes , and zeale be pleased to consider of wayes to provide oyle for al the lampes of the sanctuary ; goe on comfortably ( for god is with you , and the ministers with sounding trumpets of ministery of word and prayer ; and the people of god with you , covering you all over with earnest prayers , and and teares , as also with praises to god for you ) and be pleased to remember not to doe the worke of god by halves , or negligently . perfect and thorow reformation , will be your praise both with god and all good men , at home and abroad ; and your zeale may provoke other kingdomes , and states , and many will arise up and call you blessed , for the good pastors , and pure ordinances that they shall enjoy . t is the blemish of some of the good kings that were reformers , as asa and iehosaphat ; but neverthelesse the high places were not taken away . it was the praise of other kings , that they were taken away , as of king hezekiah . perfect reformation takes away all possibility and hopes from men , of bringing things backe againe ; but an imperfect leaves both a ground-worke , and faire possibility upon any advantage or opportunity to returne : theodoret in his eccle. historie relates that theodosius that most faithfull emperor , being fully set to overthrow the errors of the gentiles , he made lawes , by which he commanded that the temples of the images should be puld downe . constantine the great , with some other emperours , who succeeded constantine , forbad all sacrifices and worships to the heathen gods , and their images , and forbad any to come to their temples , but they did not demolish the temples & places wherin they were worshipped ; so that iulian and valens , emperours who came after , did renew the impiety of the gentiles , so that fire was kindled againe upon the altars , and sacrifices were offered to the images : all which things when theodosius understood for certaine , hee did not onely shut up the idols houses , forbidding all to come to the temples , but he did extirpate them by the rootes , and tooke care to have them buried in eternall oblivion . it was the saying of zisca the famous leader of the thaborites , that the very nests of the storkes are to be puld downe , lest they returne againe . and may it please this honorable house to purge us thoroughly , and the rather for this , because the more perfect our reformation is , according to the will of god , you shall by this lay the better and surer ground-worke , for healing and composing the great schisme , and divisions risen about the church , and church government . but amidst all your care and paines in this kinde , i beseech you cast an eye upon the errors and evills of the other hand , as anabaptisme , brownisme , &c. and be pleased to take into your serious considerations the meanes and wayes how to hinder their growth , and so much the rather , in regard there is not now in this kingdome ( things standing as they doe ) so much danger of errors on the left hand . popery , superstition , prophanenesse , have beene so discountenanced of late , so discovered , and their nakednesse laid so open , as that altars , images , pressing of ceremonies , and prophane ministers are falling of themselves . satan for this time hath even done with errors on the left hand , and their time is going out , growing like an almanacke out of date . any man who hath but halfe an eye in his head , and observes the course of things may see that errors on the right hand are now comming on the stage to take their turne also and to act their part ; the devill seeing he cannot effect his ends in the former wayes he went , he will now try others , as theodoret speaks in the case of nestorius , that satan gave over moving against the church by outward & manifest enemies , but came under the show of the orthodox , and in the habit of great strictnesse bewitching many & drawing the injudicious common people to a desire after him . satan is now transforming himselfe from an angell of darknesse into an angell of light , and though hee must use other kind of instruments , and goe other waies , yet t is to bring about the same things , the upholding of his kingdome and the hindring of gods , so that he will now labour to doe that by correcting and building up , which hee did before by persecuting and pulling downe ( as luther speakes . ) in a word plainly to expresse my meaning , one extremitie ( as many examples both antient and moderne testifie ) a hath caused another , the tyrannie of episcopall government in some bishops hath brought forth the democracie and independencie , the violent pressing of some pretended orders hath set many against all order , and satan seing hee cannot doe as he did , the times not favouring those things , they being growne old , and even antiquated that every man is ready to hisse at them , hee now goes about by other waies , and if he can but effect what he is in a faire way for and what he hath begun in a great measure , he hath enough . t is reported of the fish called * polypus , that it will be of the colour of that stone to which it cleaves , whether white or blacke , or any other : so will satan be of that colour and that temper just that the men are of with whom he deales , and the times are of . ( for besides this that satan hath more wayes to kill soules and advance his designes then one , as when he cannot have his will by persecution , then he will attempt it by schisme and sowing division amongst ministers ( as nazianzen sheweth : ) satan will in time bring about the same things though in another way , for independancie will bring againe what now it would cast out , namely libertinisme , prophanenesse , errors , and will by some removes bring many men to be of no religion at all . be pleased most worthy senators to let me tell you that the greatest sort of erroneous spirits with all unstable and wanton witted men , will be much for independant government and tolerations , and be to their uttermost against synods & setled government : socinians , arminians , anabaptists , separatists , how different soever in other principles , yet will agree in this ; independancie will both breed them , and being bred will foster them . and however in many men who bee principall actors in this way of independancie , the dangers and evills may not so appeare for the present , there being many things in most of the ministers lovely , which the more commends this way , yet wise men , such as this honourable house consists of , looke upon things and judge of them not onely as they are for the present , but as they may be hereafter , and accordingly setle things ; that being the great principle legislators goe by , to presume that men may degenerate , and things will be abused , and therefore so to provide that they may not . all errors commonly be best at first , most modest then , and the first authors of errors be commonly the best and fairest . ecclesiasticall history mentions that the novatian errors did more hurt in the fourth centurie then in the third wherein it was first broached . the followers of novatus did adde many other errors to his , as theodoret relates . arminius was more candid , and lesse erroneous then his followers , they having much improved the points , as some divines have shewed . be pleased therefore to give me leave to stirre you up to lay these schismes and divisions to heart , ( the divisions of reuben being great thoughts of heart ) and in your great wisedomes early to find out meanes and remedies to heale the great rents about the church and church government , and to hinder the further increase of this way : god hath called you together , and continued you for this worke amongst the rest ; noble patriots doe your parts , and what in you lyes to conclude of some speedy way and course for setling these differences . t is the praise of cyprian and cornelius that by the helpe of a councell they did indeavour timely to suppresse the errors of novatus . and in the meane while till church government be setled , whether it be not necessary to provide by some meanes against the spreading of this sect , and the meetings of these separated assemblies , i leave it to your great wisedomes to consider , lest otherwise wee be overgrowne with anabaptisme , brownisme and such like . and i humbly crave leave to tell you , that delayes in this kind will prove very dangerous , many falling to that way daily , and others by continuance will be so accustomed to it , that it will be harder to regaine them : besides the independants ly at the catch and advantage of delaies , all their hopes and strength standing in this , that it will be long before there be a synod , or before the church government be setled , hoping that in the interim whilst things stand betweene two , and are unsetled , they may both gather and increase their churches , and make their party more considerable ; and there is just ground to thinke they are not wanting to endeavour by some instruments how to effect it : the hand of ioab is sometimes where t is not dreamt of . i could present this honourable house with a sad relation of the state of things both in the city and countrey in respect of errors on the right hand , as also bespeake you by the teares & feares of all the godly & painfull ministers of this church of england : but i know i speake to the wise , and to them who are deeply sensible ; and t is time for me to take off my hand lest the porch be too large for the house . now the good will of him that dwelt in the bush rest upon your heads ; the lord hide you from the counsells and plots of wicked men , and from the raging diseases of the time , making you more and more his hidden ones ; he make you more and more his chosen & sanctified ones to fulfill all his mind and to doe his whole worke both against all heresie and schisme , both errors on the left hand and right ; hee double and treble upon you all that spirit of wisedome , counsell , might , and unanimitie , which former parliaments ever had . the lord set your feet upon a rock , and establish your goings ; he give you an unwearied spirit to goe on without fainting , till there be a perfect setling of peace in church and common-wealth , and till the worke of reformation so happily begun be finished . and the lord recompence into your bosomes seven-fold in blessings both temporall , spirituall , and eternall , all your worke and labour of love which yee have shewed towards his name , and towards this kingdome . and so humbly laying my selfe , and these poore endeavours at your feet , i rest your honours most devoted servant thomas edwards . the printer to the reader . good reader some sheetes not beeing seene by the author till they were printed off , hath caused more errata , both in words and points , than otherwise would have been . the most materiall are here corrected , be thou pleased to mend the rest as thou readest . pag. . line . for elections read election , p. . l. . for v. . r. v. . p. . l. . r. much . p. . in the margent for quod r. ad , p. . l. . for had r. have , p. . l. , for offices r. officers , p. . l. . dele comma at teacher , p. . l. . r. commanded , p. l. . r. broken , p. l. . read gestures , p. . l. . adde as , p. . l. . dele comma after power , p. . l. . r. combine . p . l. . dele out of his hands , for put r. given , l. . for so as it may not , r. so as if it might not p. . l. . dele the , p. . for reas. . r. reas. . p. . l. . r. spring . p. . l. . dele full point at reasons , p. . l. . read ordinances , p. . l. . r. being for is . p. . l. , after church , r. as many scriptures show . p. . l. . parenthesis after it , & not yet , p. . l. . one r. some , p. . l. . for heare r. heard , p. . l. . for charge r. change , l. . for seldome r. seldomer , p. . l. . after body dele comma p . l. . dele the , p. . l. . r. apprehensions , l. . r. then , l. . for what , r. which in the margent r. postremum , p , . l. . for three reasons , r. third reason . the introduction . intending fully by the helpe of god , ( with all possible speed ) to publish severall tractates against the whole way of the separation , for the healing of that great schisme , sprung up of late in this church , i thought good for the present necessity , to set forth these few and short reasons , ( more time being required to review , transcribe , and print larger treatises . ) now that which first moved me to the drawing up of these reasons , both against independant government , and against the toleration of it , was the credible information given me of some petitions drawne , to be presented to the honourable house of commons , for a toleration of some congregations , to enjoy an independant government , and to be exempt from the government which shall be established by law : now though , i believe , hope , and pray daily , that god will keepe that honourable house from ever giving any countenance , much lesse granting any such petitions , yet considering how many there are of that way , some inhabiting in this kingdome , others , who are come over into england on purpose , being sent as messengers of their charibes to negotiate in that behalfe ; and observing how diligently and close they follow it , by daily attending at westminster , by insinuating themselves into the company of sundry members of the house of commons , by preaching often at westminster , the more to ingratiate themselves and their cause ; printing also their desire of a toleration for independant government , and that with casting of dirt upon the reformation and government of this nationall church , what ever it may be ( as witnesse the protestation protested : ) i , a minister of the gospel , and a sufferer for it these many yeares last past , being one who desires as free a passage of the gospel , and as through a reformation , according to the will of god , as any of them ; have thought it my duty , that i might discharge a good conscience to god , and to the kingdome , to print these reasons at this time , that so when any of those petitions come to be propounded in the house of commons , under specious pretences and faire pretexts , there may by these reasons appeare a snake under the greene grasse : neither speake i this as if i would intimate , that that honorable house could be taken with colours , and faire glosses ; i know that great body is so full of wisdome , and so eagle eyed , that they can both see into , and fore-see a farre off , the many evills and mischiefes of independancy and tolerations . but i suppose these reasons may have their use among some , to furnish them the more with grounds against such petitions , for satisfying also scruples instilled by the independant men into some others ; as also to demonstrate to the petitioners , the unreasonablenesse of their demands : my aime therefore is , by this following discourse , l. humbl● to crave leave to enter in the honourable house of commons a caveat , both against independant government of particular congregations , and against their toleration ; and to present to the house a writ of ne admittas , fetcht out from the court of heaven , and from the records of holy scripture . reasons against the independant government of particular congregations . reason . i. the churches gathered and constituted by the apostles , watered by evangelists and prophets , and after planting and watering , having pastors and teachers , with all other officers , as they say , set over them by the apostles and their owne elections : yet it is evident these churches could not well stand nor subsist of themselves with all these officers , but many of them had beene much indangered , and subject to have beene ruined , if some others besides these churches and officers had not upon occasions interposed and that authorotatively , as the apostles , evangelists , and elders of other churches , as doth appeare by the acts of the apostles , and by many epistles , as to corinth , galatia , colossians , timothy , titus : . acts : . cor. . chap. . ver. . . cor. . chap. . . . ver. the particulars whereof i shall evince more largely hereafter . now if these primitive churches who had all the officers , and were setled by the apostles in all poynts according to christs order , yet in those times could not doe well independently , how can wee thinke that any particular congregation in these times ( which cannot be so setled having no apostles nor any infallible men to direct them ) can doe well without dependancie ? and though it will be said these extraordinary officers be now ceased , yet let them consider whether there is not need of some way to supply this want to the particular churches now : but if it be said that the ordinary officers of pastors , teachers , elders , with the body of the congregation will suffice for the governing every particular congregation independantly ; to that i answer according to their principles , in the apostles times there were all these officers in particular congregations , and setled in a perfect way , and yet for all this , particular churches needed a dependancy upon apostles , evangelists , prophets , and presbyters of other churches , and timothie , and titus are set over the church of ephesus and crete : now though some of these be ceased , and so this power may be ceased , as it was in particular men , yet that the congregations should not need it now in these times as well as then , no solid reason can be given , but there is much more reason for it now , which therefore must bee in some other way , be it synods and councels , to supply the defects of each particular , by the conjunction of the whole , the whole helping every part , and supplying what is lacking to it ; and this reason hath the more strength in it , if we consider that the churches in the apostles times were churches in cities , it being all one to say in every city , or in every church , tit. . . act. . which churches also had good store of preaching ministers amongst them , as appeares by acts . v. . act. . v. , . compared with ver. . so that in all cases of doctrine and discipline , having many ministers to resolve and determine matters , and to have carryed them with the more gravity and authority , they might have subsisted the better independantly , whereas most particular congregations now have but few ministers , one or two , nay , according to their principles there may be none , nor no officer at all , and yet these congregations must be independant , having all power and government independantly , before officers as well as after . reason . ii. that governement and power which causes men to runne upon the manifest violation of the constant practice and example of the churches during all the time of the apostles , and puts churches upon practices that are absurd , unreasonable and prejudiciall to the good of their soules , that government is not of divine institution , nor to be received : but such is the independant power , and government of particular congregations : the major is of undoubted truth , and will be denyed by none , for the minor i will prove it in these following instances . first , their independancy forces them either to have ministers and officers without being ordained , contrary to the practice and examples of the churches all along in the new testament , as the . acts v. . . act. . no man ever being an ordinary officer in the church , without ordination , let them produce one instance if they can : hence the most learned divines in reformed churches tell us , that no man ought to be admitted to an ordinary function in the church unlesse they be lawfully called , and that lawfull calling stands in ordination as well as election : but because these may be rejected by them , let us heare one of their owne , namely master robinson , speaking , thou art not a pastor but by a lawfull calling : thou art called a pastor ( that is elected , and ordained ) or else if their officers be ordained , it is by the people , even by such who are not in office , which is expresly against the constant practise of all the churches in the new testament , as appeares by the . acts . . acts . tim. . . tim. . . tit. . and it can never be showne in all the new testament , that the people ever attempted any such thing ; thus zanchius showes that this is to be observed in scriptures , although election of ministers was made by the whole church , yet hands were never imposed but by the ministery and presbytery , this is cleare in the acts & epistles of paul : and the people cannot do it , because the lesse is blessed of the greater , & they who lay hands on and make ministers , should be greater in place and authority & not lesse , as the common people be : and though it be granted ( as cameron speakes ) that an equall may make and ordaine an equall , yet he who is an inferior , cannot a superior . and thus to maintaine independancy they breake the ordinance of god , and violate that order & constant way of the calling of ministers recorded in the word . and i desire them but to consider in the feare of god , what master robinson writes in the fourth chapter of his apology , and i know they must forsake their helena of independancy upon this reason , ( and all the shifts they have under heaven about ordination cannot helpe them ) t is religion in me ( saith robinson ) to depart though but a little from the practice and institutions of the apostles ( excepting alwayes extraordinary things ) in any thing that is truely ecclesiasticall , though never so small , what things soever , by whom soever , or under what colour soever they be invented : now ordination cannot be held extraordinary and temporary , neither is it by them , and t is held to be an ecclesiasticall thing also , and certainely none of the least among ecclesiasticalls , in matter of order and decorum , there being not any one thing concerning matters of order , that hath so cleere and constant practice as this ; i am sure all their whole frame of church and discipline , hath not so much ground in the word for it as this , namely , that ministers ought to be ordained , and that by ministers of the word . so calvin , although there be no expresse precept concerning the imposition of hands , yet because we see it was in perpetuall use by the apostles , the so accurate observation of it by them ought to be to us instead of a command . so zanchius speaking of imposition of hands in ordination , saith thus , that this in many places is rejected , together with other ceremonies , i never approved nor can approve . i know there is no expresse precept concerning this thing but notwithstanding i would have the examples of the apostles , and the ancient church more to be esteemed of , yea they ought to be to us instead of a command : and in another place he speakes , t is certaine , t is not a vaine ceremony but the holy spirit is present , and to performe those things inwardly , which are signified by this outward rite : and yet if ordination were but a very little thing , but a ceremony , the essence of calling , standing in election , and that but the consummation of it , nothing but the solemne introduction of the minister into the free execution of his calling , yet if master robinson may be believed , and your selves in other little things , we must not depart from christs way , or goe any other way , in things concerning his house and officers than he hath directed , and yet behold in this either ministers are not called according to the scripture wanting that part of their calling , namely ordination , or else , if they be , it is in another way than the apostles or churches of christ ever practised , behold how this independancy causes men to depart farre from the practice of the apostles . and i desire they would show for what reason paul left titus at crete , to make ministers in every city , if ordination were not necessary for all ministers of the gospell under the new testament , or if being necessary , it might be performed to ministers by the people without officers : titus might have beene imployed better to have gone along with paul , preaching and helping to convert others , and might have well left the churches in crete , either to have had ministers without ordination , or else left the people to ordaine them . secondly , this independancy causes them to fall upon practises absurd and unreasonable , as namely either their ministers must not first be examined tryed and known for their gifts and abilities before they be made , which is contrary to the scriptures , tim. . v. . they must first be proved , and if it hold in deacons , much more in the ministers of the word , and of this they may read zanchius , calvin , amesius , and generally all divines , or they must be judged of by the people . now how can the people three or foure visible saints , or more , joyned into a church , examine and try the learning , gifts , soundnesse of men for the ministry , who are themselves ignorant in all kind of learning , and may be weake and injudicious ? it is against the light of nature and right reason that learned men should be examined and discovered for their abilities by them who skill not those things , and are far below them in knowledg : we see in all arts and sciences , men are examined and tryed by them of their owne arts and callings , and not by others , who have no knowledge in them : so zanchius giving reasons of the necessity of examination before ordination , comes to propound by whom this examination is to be , to which he answers ; by him who is judged to be indued with the greatest measure of the spirit , having also other presbyters present , who are learned and pious : paul would therefore have timothy to know them well who are to be ordained , for examination belongs to the most skilfull , and they who are of most authority . but these visible saints , the church being oft times weake , injudicious , meane , for parts and education , apt to be turned quickly , and taken with faire showes and good expressions , may and doe chuse , weake , ignorant , unfit men for pastours and elders , whereby the church may be led into errors , kept in a low estate , so as they cannot grow up in grace and knowledge , as becomes a church of christ ; there may be also all barbarousnesse and disorder for want of gifts in government in these weake officers , all which tends to the prejudice and hazard of the soules ; hence this is given as the great reason by divines of the examination of ministers before ordination and that to be by learned and able men , because as there is nothing more profitable to the church then good pastors , so nothing more pernitious then bad and unlearned ministers . secondly , suppose they might chuse well , namely able men both for parts and soundnesse in the faith , and it were lawfull also for the people to ordaine , yet it may so fall out ( according to their principles of a church ) that these visible saints cannot ordaine officers , as having no gifts of prayer for publicke , especially not able to conceive prayers , concerning the action in hand , namely , the ordination of a minister , neither had they any gifts to make publicke exhortations and admonitions to the pastor of his duty , nor be able to know what to say to him , at the admission of him into his office : what shall be done now ? shall the worke be staid , and the church want a minister till she be able to doe these workes and duties ? they may for ought can be said , be long , nay ever without ministers , and so without preaching of the word and sacraments , which cannot but be very prejudiciall to their salvation : but to grant them that which needes not be granted according to their principles , that this church shall have some offices , as suppose a ruling elder , yet when a pastor is to be chosen , these elders who have a gift in government , may not be able nor competent to try and examine the gifts and parts of a pastor : nay yeeld them to have a pastor , and the church would now chuse a teacher , one single pastor though able in his gift of exhortation and application may not be so able to try the gifts requisite to a teacher , whose gifts must be for exposition and controversies to preserve pure doctrine : hence amesius speaking of calling of ministers to a church , saith that here is need of direction and helpe of presbyters both of the same church , and for the most part of the neighbour churches . but if he were able to try and examine , yet how shall this teacher be ordained , there being but one minister , if ministers of neighbour churches may not joyne also ? consider if they doe not fall into that which they complaine against in the episcopacy , namely for one man to have the sole power of ordination : so that by all these particulars you may see the assumption proved . reason . iii. t is not to be thought that christ would institute such a government of his church which affords no helpe , nor allowes no way or remedy , no not for one time or prima vice , for innocent persons that are wronged , but where being no place for appeales the parties oppressing must be the sole judges of the cause . it is counted an unequall , unreasonable thing , in governements , that parties should be judges at all , much lesse the sole , and that there should be no way for persons oppressed to be righted . but now in this independant church government , there is no reliefe , no not at first , for injured persons , nor way of appeale to others who be not parties to heare their cause and determine ; here onely parties are judges and no others may be admitted : as for instance , in one of their congregations , the greatest number of that church ( as it doth and may oft fall out ) is against the pastor or teacher , and some other members upon a difference in some points of doctrine , and being the greater number , the elders also taking part with them , they proceed most unjustly to censures of deprivation and excommunication ; now if all the power lye independantly in this particular church , so as there may be no other as synods to appeale unto , to heare the cause and right them , this minister and brethren thus censured must lye under these oppressions without all remedy , and be debarred from the ordinances of christ without helpe ; what remedy there is in such cases as this we desire them to shew us , and that such cases as this may not , and doe fall out , cannot be denyed : now that christ should institute such a governement in his church , where 't is unlawfull for any but parties properly so termed to be sole judges , and where there is no possibility of redresse for the innocent in cases of injury which may and do ordinarily fall out , is not a thing to be imagined by reasonable men ; t is spoken of by these men for a strange practise in the bishops that they should be judges in their owne cause and give votes in it ( though yet there be besides them , three times their number of voyces in the house of lords ) how much more unreasonable may they judge it in their way of church governement , where parties who are judges be greater in number , so that i may speake of the independancy of their congregations as cameron speakes of the popular government of their congregations * . it is not credible that our lord jesus christ , who is both king of righteousnesse and king of peace would have government to be in this way , which hath no meanes nor way for righteousnesse nor peace in his church ; besides the practice of the church of antioch ( recorded in scripture for our example ) is against it , and gives us ground for appeale to others out of that church , and not to have the parties the judges , acts . , . because the dissention and disputation was betweene paul and barnabas , and them of judaea , who taught circumcision ; therefore , the church of antioch thought it not fit that paul and barnabas should determine and end it , but sent to others , apostles and elders , who were not parties against them of judaea , and they shall determine for them all : else had not the dissention and disputation beene betweene paul and barnabas , and certaine of judaea , and that in the particular church of antioch , they were able to have determined it without sending to jerusalem , but the church judged it unequall , that they who were the parties in the controversie should be the judges . reason . iv. the light and law of nature with right reason is against the independancy of particular churches , dictating & leading us to dependancy , a subordination and a consociation in government . in all societies and bodies it is thus by the dictates of nature , and it is found necessary amongst bodies naturall , and bodies politicke , that the severall parts and particular members doe joyne in one for the good of the whole , and that the whole being greater then a part , the severall parts should be subject to , and ordered by the whole : as in a mans body , the foote , though it hath its proper use and operation , is dressed , lanched and ordered , not by it selfe , but by the hands and eyes : in cities and great townes , though there be severall companies who have orders and government among themselves in some particulars , yet they are in subordination , and in a consociation with greater assemblies , in more high and difficult cases for the preservation of the whole : in common wealths and kingdomes , though severall cities , townes , counties , have courts , and their particular governments , yet all these courts are subordinated to higher , and all these joyne and are consociated together in some chosen out of all , as in parliaments : in schooles of learning there be severall colledges and houses who have masters and officers of their owne , yet there is a consociation of the chiefe of all these , for the government of the whole : in armies there be severall companies and regiments who have their distinct captaines and officers , and yet upon great assaults , exploits , they are conjoyned all in one , and have a councell of warre out of severall regiments , to advise and determine upon waighty occasions : particular shippes have their owne masters , and pilots , and provisions , and yet all joyne into one navy , for the safety of the whole : at first families had all power and governement within their owne walls , but when they encreased ( though families have power still of correction , food ) yet they joyned to be governed by magistrates , and ruled in greater cases of life and death and goods : why should not this hold then , & be lawfull in the church , in greater and waightier matters ? especially seeing themselves affirme that their churches are bodies , spirituall corporations , cities , families , armyes . the church is a most free corporation spirituall : and doe inferre many of their practices from this , that their churches are bodies and societies , and therefore it must be , as it is with corporations , and bodies politicke , they must choose their owne ministers , the ministers can onely preach authoritatively in their owne congregation , as the magistrate of leyden can onely administer his publicke office at leyden , and not at delph . every particular member must enter into covenant with the church , when admitted a member , because when men are admitted into a body , or society civill , they make not onely a covenant , but doe often adde thereto an oath . themselves teach also , that as church discipline is to be learned from the plaine and perfect word of god : so in such particulars as are common to the church with other societies , it is to be directed by the light of nature , the church observing alwayes the generall rules of the word , and so this is brought as the maine ground for their church covenant ( though there be neither precept not practice of it , in the word ) namely the lawes and rules of nature which doe run along with , and are alike common to things spirituall and humane , so farre as both are found to agree in one common nature together , for as when god made speaking to men in a publique assembly ( as is that of preaching or prophecying ) a sacred ordinance instantly did all the lawes of nature , and right reason that serve to regulate and conveniently concurre to all orderly speeches and orations of men in publique made , they did all fall upon this ordinance also , as to speake aloud , not to speake two or three at once , &c. so say i in this point , when god required governement and discipline in his church , those rules and practices of governments , which according to the light of nature and right reason are in common-wealthes and societies were warranted for the discipline of the church , especially the church observing the generall rules of edification , order , peace , &c. which synods , and counsells apparently tend to , so that i may affirme of dependancy ( as is said by them of their church covenant ) it is so farre from being any thing above that which is written , that it rather comes within the compasse of the apostle , it needed not at all to have beene written thes. . . ye are taught of god in a law spiritualized , who also hath full roundly taught us to acknowledge , if we be spirituall , yea but reasonable , such dictates of nature , and right reason in things wherein divine ordinances and humane doe alike partake in common , to be no lesse then the commands of god . it is asserted by some divines of scotland , that in all such things as are alike common to the church , and to the common-wealth , and have the same use in both , whatsoever natures light directeth the one , it cannot but direct the other also ; for as the church is a company of christians subject to the law of god , so is it a company of men and women , who are not the outlawes of nature , but followers of the same . and hence it is amesius showes that the light of nature requires , that particular churches may and ought to combine in synods , for things of greater moment : so then to conclude this reason , and that ex concessis , the god of nature and reason hath not left in his word a governement against the light of nature and right reason , but such is the independent government , as hath beene showne at large . reason . v. there be many rules and commands in the scripture , besides the equity and analogy of some practises and examples which doe require the combination of churches in synods , so amesius confesses : the rules and commands be such as these , let all things be done to edification , let all things be done decently , and in order , cor. . . . ver. follow after the things which make for peace , rom. . . so philip . . . vers. now if all things in the churches must be done to edification , comely , and in order , and for peace , then certainely church government must . but synods are found to be for edification , for peace , and order , as things of good report and just , as a speciall remedy for preventing , and healing divisions , which is not , nor cannot be in the independant government , but many cases fall out where there is no other remedy but separation , separation being indeed the remedy of separation . it is confessed by themselves that this is a safe and prudentiall way . now a thing may be commanded by god two wayes , either by vertue of a generall command , or by vertue of a particular command , and that is commanded , and ought to be practised , which is required by a generall precept as well as what is command by a particular , and there are many particulars to be practised by vertue of a generall precept , having no other foundation , especially when they are found by common experience to be so . the practises and examples following , are such as these , cor. . . the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets : now if the spirits of the prophets in a particular congregation , must be subject to the censure of the rest in that church , then by way of equity and analogy , they are to be subjected to a greater company , namely , to the judgement of all the prophets , in a province or nation : thus paul , though an apostle , seekes to win credit and obedience , even to those orders , which hee established by the example and judgement of other churches , cor. . . cor. . . the equity of which is , that the orders agreed upon by the consent of many churches , are of great force and authority to bind : so paul , though an apostle , submitted to the practice of what was agreed upon by the common consent of james , and all the elders of jerusalem , ( though in the practice of jewish and legall ceremonies ) acts . from the . ver. to the . ver. thus in a case of great dissention , and disputation in the church of antioch , acts . , . ver. why did that church send to jerusalem for resolution in that difficult case to be determined , and bound by the decrees and orders of the apostles and elders in that synod , and were not bound , nor determined by their owne church onely ? ( especially having two such excellent men with them as barnabas and paul , whose judgement they might have rested upon ) surely this was done for this end , to teach us that divers churches in difficult cases ought to meete by their ministers and some choise men to determine of matters for those churches , according to the word , to which all those churches should submit . neither will it helpe them to say this was extraordinary ( for what synod can say , it seemeth good to us and the holy ghost ? and those decrees bound them who were not present ) not to answer these exceptions now , but reserving the answer to a larger tractate upon this subject ; grant it that something in this synod was singular and extraordinary , yet this was not for one church to send to another , and that to their ordinary officers the elders , acts . . ver. to this end that by common consent difficult cases might be determined and enjoyned upon particular churches by more than their owne church , for this must needs be ordinary , and so binding , being an example founded upon rules of common equity , reason , and communion of churches , and not upon temporary or extraordinary grounds , and that appeares thus ( for unlesse it were to teach the succeeding churches this , and to be a ground for synods , and dependancy in government , in cases of difference and difficulty , there could be no other great use nor end of it , for as for the satisfying of the question , and resolving the case , paul alone being at antioch , one who was immediately and infallibly inspired by the spirit , was able of himselfe to have satisfyed that controversie about circumcision , much more barnabas being with him and others in that church . reason . vi . the government of the church by synods , is no where forbidden by god in the new testament , nor spoken against , either directly , or by consequence ( as they say ) is for one man to have the power , luk. . . . ver. for though no one minister , as some say , be greater than another , yet all are greater than one or a few . in synods here is no erecting or appointing of an officer or office in the church , which christ hath not appointed ( which is the exception made against episcopacy ) but here are onely the officers appointed by christ and that forme of government , which is appointed by christ in his church , namely , aristocraticall , here is no varying of the forme of church government from aristocraticall to monarchicall ; ( as they speake of episcopacy ) but the government by synods is most aristocraticall , whereas the independant way for the most part is but onely oligarchicall , having but a few officers in a church , or else democraticall , if put into the body of the congregation : now where there is no law forbidding , there is no transgression , for sinne is a transgression of the law , john . . and such actions the church may lawfully doe , wherein no law of god is broken , as is confessed by themselves , in the fifth argument of syons prerogative . but here is no law broke , this never being spoken against , nor liable to those exceptions put in by them against episcopacy , but found agreeable to the law and light of nature concerning societies , to generall rules in the word of edification , order , peace , purenesse , lovelinesse , &c. to examples also and practises in scripture ; and what though there be not an expresse precept or a command in terminis for it , yet not being against scriptures but so agreeable to it ( as appeares by all before said ) no sober godly minister or christian should refuse communion with a church or submission to it , and go and set up a church , against a church , and foment a schisme for that : for if they will doe so , and will not goe upon generall rules , equity of examples , light of nature and reason , they must forsake being fixed members of any particular congregation , and forsake all churches in the independant way , and professedly joyne themselves to no assembly in the exercise of instituted worship , because they must practice as great matters concerning externall government and worship of what ever church or government they be of , as this is ; namely the association of churches . let them produce a particular word for the order of gods worship , what must be performed first , what second , what third , what fourth , and so of the rest , and that no ordinance nor part of worship may be in another order ; let them ( if they can ) show a particular word or rule in the new testament for their church covenant ( which yet is an essentiall point , namely , the forme of the church ) let them produce what is required in the word particularly , as the forme of excommunication , or as the forme of ordination , let them set downe the outward worship and gesture of the externall reverence which must be used , and no other way , in the severall ordinances of god , as word , prayer , singing of psalmes , reading scriptures , baptisme , lords supper , excommunication , which if they cannot ( as we know they are not able , neither in these nor many other things which may be named ) let them then learne that many things in government and discipline , have but generall rules with equity of practices , and if they will not joyne , nor have to doe in church government , and discipline , till they have particular commands to walke thus and no otherwise , they shall stay long enough , and be of no church . reason . vii . this consociation and combination in way of synods is granted by themselves , as lawfull and expedient in sundry cases and particulars . as that one church being required , ought to give an account to others , and to be content that matters of difference and importance should be heard by other churches , as also to be advised and counselled by other churches , to have also doctrines that are questionable , tryed , and judged of by synods , to be admonished , and to be reproved also in case they deserve it ; and in case they will not amend , and reforme , upon admonitions and reproofes of synods and assemblies , then they are to be complained of to the civill magistrate , that he may doe his duty : for this see christ on his throne , vid. pag. . examin. of prelat . petition . sions prerog. pag. . protest . protested . now i desire them to satisfie me in their answers they give to these reasons , what grounds they have in scriptures for these practices ; for ministers and elders of severall churches to meet together in greater assemblies , to heare the matters of a particular church , to try and judge doctrines , to admonish and reprove , and to complaine , and that matters may with common advise and consent , be agreed upon , for those churches , excepting onely generall rules and commands with the equity and analogie of examples ; so that if these acts and workes may be done lawfully , then the judging and determining of censures and the imposition of orders and decrees , may be warrantable , especially considering that the example of the synod at jerusalem , ordained those decrees for to be kept of the churches , act. . ver. . so that there was not onely discussion , disputation , common agreement , but imposition of them , besides these acts ( which you grant ) some of them be acts of power and government , other of these acts are church censures , as publicke reproving and admonition upon complaint , and accusations ; as appeares by the tim. . . mat. . ver. , , . so amesius tells us , that the parts of discipline are brotherly correction and excommunication : neither doth discipline consist onely , or chiefely in the thunder-bolt of excommunications , but chiefely in christian correction , and full excomunication is not to be exercised , unlesse to the sinne there be added contumacy . and so admonitions and reproofes upon complaints , are held church censures , by themselves . now then if officers of other congregations with their owne officers may exercise these censures , and that which is the chiefe part of discipline , and if members of other churches ought by the law of communion of churches to seeke advise , helpe , and to submit to admonitions and reproofes , so as there may be good by them , then also may they submit to the decreeing of excommunications by synods : for if discipline may be lawfully exercised in that wherein it chiefely consists , as admonitions and reproofes by officers of other churches , towards members of such a congregation , then may it also be exercised in that wherein it lesse consists , and in this you are no more subject in conscience to a humane ordinance , then you are in publicke admonitions and reproofes . reason . viii . they doe grant and confesse that churches of such a communion and association , if upon complaints of false doctrines , and evill discipline , made to synods and classes , the synods and classes convincing a church of their errors , admonishing , and councelling them to reforme and to censure the obstinate persons among them ; if after all this they shall persist and goe on , that then all these churches ought to withdraw from them , renounce communion and fellowship with them , cast them off , and declare so much to their severall congregations ; now i would know of them ( avoyding strife about names , words , and formes of excommunication ) what is excommunication , but this ? what is it to excommunicate , or to be excommunicated ; but to reject persons , and not to have communion with them , neither in holy nor civill things familiarly ? for proofe of which , see these places . matth. . v. . if he neglect to heare the church , let him be unto thee as a heathen or publican . which words are understood by all men that would found discipline upon this place , to be meant of excommunication . so thes. . v. . , & . they are both understood of excommunication , and they are expressed by keeping no company with them , and by withdrawing communion from them ; so that if officers and churches may doe this lawfully , then they may excommunicate members of other congregations . so tit. . v. . excommunication is expressed under rejecting : so that our independant brethren should not upon word or names , make so great a stirre in the church , and maintaine a controversie , even to separated assemblies ▪ when they doe yeeld the substance ; hence it is , that one of them in that late protestation protested ( meaning , i suppose , no other than his fellowes ) plainely uses the word excommunicate , which was not without a providence to make them yeeld to the truth , not onely in the thing , but in the very name and terme . many other reasons against independancy i could subjoyne to these , as that this overthrowes communion of saints , as the impossibility of this government to any christian common-wealth or nation , &c. besides the taking of all their evasions to these reasons , ( which i easily know and foresee ) as also , an answer to all their arguments and reasons for independancy : but intending this onely for a light skirmish , before i draw up my forces to the maine battell , and sending this forth but ( as a scout ) to discover the strength or weakenesse of the other side , i will adde no more , onely that i doe not feare but that these few souldiers will be able to returne againe alive , and unwounded , and be able to doe more service when they shall be joyned with others , and formed into battalio . reasons against a toleration of some independant chvrches in england . reason . i. though the scriptures speake much for tolerating and bearing one with another in many things , both in matters of opinion and practice , as these places testifie , rom. . , , . . & , . verses . rom. . , . . ver. ephes. . , . ver. phil. . , . ver. yet when differences come either to heresie or schismes , and points be maintained by men , so as to trouble and disturbe the church , then the scriptures are expresse against their toleration and sufferance , requiring them who have power , to hinder it , as may be seene , rev. . . i have a few things against thee , because thou sufferest that woman jesabel , which calleth her selfe a prophetesse to teach , and to seduce my servants . tim. . . timothie must charge some in ephesus to teach no other doctrine . tit. . . men who are unruly , and subvert whole houses , teaching things that they ought not , for filthy lucres sake , their mouthes must be stopped . tit. . . titus must reject a man that is an hereticke after the first and second admonition . rom , . ver. . paul presses upon the romans by earnest beseeching to marke them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them , ( which is far from tolerating them . ) so paul writes to the galathians of some who troubled their church , affirming galath. . . . that he who troubleth you shall beare his judgement whosoever he be : and i would they were even cut off which trouble you . on which words pareus gives the exposition , that to beare judgement , is to be punished , that is , troublers and disturbers of a church and people , shall be punished first of god , and then of the church , as also of the magistrate ; and on the . verse : paul wishes they were cut off from the church , which rend the church about circumcision , who trouble and disturbe both the outward peace of the church , as also your faith and consciences : so calvin , on these two verses , . & . speakes thus : but let them heare whoever give occasion of troubles to the churches , who loosen the unity of the faith , who breake peace , and if they have any right understanding , let them tremble at this , for god doth pronounce by the mouth of paul , that no authors of such offences shall be unpunished . they teare and rend the church about circumcision , i would have them to be cut off ▪ neither can this be condemned of cruelty , as if it were against charity , for if we compare the church with one man , or a few , how farre doth that outwaigh ? for it is cruell mercy , which preferres one man , or a few , before the church , &c. now the toleration desired , to set up churches independant , and separated from the churches in the kingdome , it is in it selfe a schisme , a rent , and a troubling , disturbing of the church , so it will prove more and more , ( and cannot be avoided , according to their principles and practices hitherto ) a daily schisme and rent in this church , and an infinite disturbance , both to the outward peace , and to the faith and consciences of the people in this kingdome . the church of england will be as much troubled by it , as ever was the church of galatia , which will appeare more fully in the following reasons . and therefore there ought to be no toleration ; every one in their place ought to be against it , the magistrates , ministers , and people . the permitting and suffering of evill , with the giving of any countenance to it , when men have power to hinder it , is to be partakers of their sinne , tim. . . the second epistle of john , the . verse . qui non prohibet , quando protest , jubet . hee that doth not forbid when he hath power , commands . and let me aske the independant ministers a question or two ; is it fitting that well meaning christians should be suffered to goe and make churches , and then proceed to chuse whom they will for ministers , as some taylor , felt-maker , button-maker , men ignorant , and low in parts , by whom they shall be led into sinne and errors , and to forsake the publicke assemblies , where they may enjoy worthy and pretious pastors , after gods owne heart , who would feed them with knowledge and understanding ? if once there be a toleration of churches , it will be thus , but if they be hindered of all meetings , this would be prevented . so heresies also may take and spread in those separated assemblies , before they can be knowne to the magistrates and ministers of other churches . do not your hearts bleed within you to see and heare of this for the present in severall places , and to thinke what will be hereafter ? o mine doth , and thus if once there were a toleration , how many weake brethren would perish for whom christ dyed ? reason . ii. the toleration desired will not helpe to heale the schismes and tents of this church , ( which is one speciall thing ought to be looked unto in this present reformation of the church ) but will much foment and encrease it . for whilst some congregations , and they accounted of note both for ministers and people , will not submit to the reformation and government setled by law , this will breed in the peoples mindes many thoughts ex natura rei , that this church and government is not ordered according to the word of god , but is unlawfull ; else why should such men most eminent for gifts and graces , ( as many people account them ) refuse to conforme to it ? and this will prove as great and as continued a division betweene the ministers and people of the churches established by law , and the churches tolerated , as ever was betweene conformists and non-conformists about ceremonies ; nay greater , because these are of different churches & congregations , whereas conformists and non-conformists held communion together in one church , though contending about these matters ; and that this will certainly be , may be easily beleeved and foreseene upon these grounds . . because many of the people who yet be not in this church way for their practise , are yet much possessed with these principles of the independant way , as the onely way of god , and are much looking towards it . . the mindes of multitudes of the professors in england , and especially in this city , are upon all occasions very apt to fall to any way in doctrine or discipline that is not commonly received by the church , as accounting some singular perfection to be in that which is new , and held but by a few . . though the ministers of the congregations tolerated , would promise not to preach of these points in publicke , nor in private to speake of them , ( which yet they will not be tyed unto ) yet their people many of them both men and women , are so strangely bold , pragmaticall , and so highly conceited of their way ( as the kingdome of christ and the onely way of christ ) that what out of those principles , and what by vertue of their relations in friendship , kindred , &c. there would be continuall drawing of many , and many falling to them . . the prime principles of this church way , as namely independancie , liberty , power , of government and rule to be in the people , are mighty pleasing to flesh and blood ; people generally , chiefely meane persons , and such who have beene kept under , affecting independancie , liberty , power , and rule . . the grant of a toleration will be made use of by them for the strengthning of their way to be the truth ; and will be interpreted in this sense , that they had such grounds and reasons , as the ablest ministers in the kingdome could not answer , and therefore were content they should have a toleration , ( else if they could have satisfied them , what needed a toleration ? ) onely though they could not answer their reasons , and had nothing to say , yet they would not come to them , and this will be spoken of by their followers , that we would not bee convinced , though we could say nothing against it : all which will ( as a meanes to encrease their side ) occasion continuall strifes , divisions , heart-burnings both of ministers against ministers , and people against people , so that in stead of union and peace in the kingdome and church , we shall have notwithstanding all reformation , a greater division and rent succeede than ever before . reason . iii. this toleration will not onely breede divisions and schismes , disturbing the peace and quiet of churches and townes , by setting them who are of different families , and in more remote relations one against another , but it will undoubtedly cause much disturbance , discontent , and divisions in the same families even betweene the nearest relations of husbands and wives , fathers and children , brothers and sisters , masters and servants : the husband being of one church , & the wife of another ; the father of one , & the childe of another ; the master of the church established by law , the servant of the tolerated ; one brother of one church , and another brother of another ; and so all oeconomicall relations and duties will be much disturbed , when as they of one house , and they in one bed shall be so divided , as that they shall not be of one church , nor worship god together in word , sacraments , prayer , but apart . o how will this overthrow all peace and quiet in families , filling husbands and wives with discontents , and setting at variance fathers and children , each against other , weakning that fervent love in those relations ! o how will this occasion disobedience , contempt , neglects of governours from the inferiors of the family , whilst the governours be looked upon by them , as not in a true church ! o how will this toleration take away ( for every saint must bee free to joyne himselfe voluntarily to what congregation he please ) that power , authority , which god hath given the husbands , fathers , and masters , overwives , children , servants ; whilst that they shall joyne against their wills to such churches , and be stollen from them against their pleasure : nei●her can the governours be able to judge of their pro●● in the word , nor be certaine they sanctifie the lords day ( according as god hath layd the charge upon them in the fourth commandement ) when as the children and servants are of other churches ; so that by these and many other things which will be found in experience , this toleration will pervert , disturbe , that order of gods owne appointing , namely the relations , duties , and workes of families , which were there nothing else to be sayd against it , this were enough , god certainely appointing no such church way●●s is crosse to the good and peace of families ( one orcer of god certainely not destroying another . ) now how strong this reason is against this toleration , i submit to the judgement of that court , which hath the legislative power , they knowing well that both churches and common-wealths are made of families all issuing out from thence , they being the seminaries and nurseries for both , and if there be a ground-worke layd for disturbances , divisions , and disorders there , what can be firme , peaceable , or sure ? reason . iiii. there will be great danger of continuall divisions , distractions , disputes amongst us , not onely from the different forme of government and worship in their churches and ours ; but from other doctrines and practises held by some of them for the present ( as for instance that saints when they dye , goe not to heaven where christ is , but they goe to a third place ; the sitting with their hats on at the receiving of the lords supper , &c. ) and others that will be dayly broached , and then their churches being independant and not under the government of any out of themselves , they will goe on without being hindred ; and whereas we have now too many new and strange doctrines , we shall have nothing but errours and novelties broached , and so greater contentions and breaches amongst us . reason . v. the most eminent ministers in this kingdome for parts , grace , and labours , can have little assurance of the continuance of their flockes to them , if such a toleration be granted , for they will draw away their people , and admit them into their churches , and even gather and encrease their churches out of the labours of the best ministers , the ministers shall doe little else but spend , and be spent , for to fit men for them ; when ministers have travelled in birth of children , and should have comfort and joy in them , then they will be stollen away . this toleration upon any discontent taken or any light occasion of demanding dues , or preaching against any thing they like not , opens a wide dore and will invite them to desert their ministers ; and what a sadding of the heart and discouragement in the worke of the lord , this must be to the ministers of the kingdome , let all judge . reason . vi . a toleration of churches to bee erected as independant , to enjoy liberty and exemption from the estabilshed , will be undoubtedly a meanes and way of their infinite multiplication and encrease , even to increase them . fold , so that if the parliament could like to have more of the breede , and have a delight to have multitudes to be exempted from the ecclesiasticall lawes of the land , ( which parliaments never did ) no way like this : for we see within this nine moneths ( though there be no toleration of their way ) yet having not beene lookt after , how are they increased and multiplyed ? and that there will be a mighty encrease upon a toleration ( to say nothing of casting a snare upon the people , by this to make doubts , nor nothing of the wantonnesse and instability of many professours , nor of the activenesse of many to spread these principles that their party may be considerable ) this may evince it : in many , if not in most townes and parishes it cannot be helped , but that there are and will be for many yeeres , men of no great popular gifts for preaching , who also according to their principles , not having beene brought up to it , cannot so comply with their people : now many that live in these parishes ( seeing they may keepe their houses and places of abode ) upon the newes of a toleration , will for the benefit of more powerfull , practicall , and zealous preaching , betake themselves to goe to their churches , ( which liberty they cannot have in the churches established , for the law ( it is likely ) will provide for men to keepe to their owne ministers , where there is sufficient preaching ) and so will fall to their principles , and so wee shall have upon this grouud swarmes of them . reason . vi . the prime and fundamentall principles of this independant way , upon which they erect their church way and independancy , are very prejudiciall , dangerous , and unsufferable , to this kingdome , as for instances , saints qua saints , two or three of them or more , they onely have an immediate independant power from christ their immediate head , to gather and combinde themselves into visible churches , without expecting warrant from any governours whatsoever upon earth , as also being thus gathered and joyned into a church , to chuse all officers among themselves , and to exercise all discipline and ecclesiasticall government , even to excomunication , without and against the good will and consent of the christian magistrates , but the magistrates whether kings and princes , or states , they have no power , but in all things of the visible church christ is an immediate governour to the saints , having put none of his power out of his hands to any magistrate whatsoever , but though he hath given much power to magistrates over goods , liberties , and lives of his saints , yet this spirituall power of gathering and making churches , and of the power of exercising censures and discipline so as it may not be exercised without their power and leave , he hath not given them ; so that i desire them to consider and enquire whether this denying to kings and princes power and authority in causes ecclesiasticall in the church , and giving all spirituall , ecclesiasticall power immediately , and independantly under christ to the particular congregations , and not to the king , be not against these lawes and statutes of the land , made in . henry the . cap. . . yeere of henry the . cap. . and the . yeere of elizabeth cap. . where it will be found that all jurisdiction , superiority , spirituall and ecclesiasticall , as by any spirituall or ecclesiasticall power or authority hath beene , or may lawfully be exercised , for the visitation of the ecclesiasticall state and persons , and for reformation , order and correction of the same , and of all manner of errours , heresies , schismes , abuses , offences , &c. shall for ever by authority of this present parliament , be united and annexed to the imperiall crowne of this realme . as also that no orders nor constitutions may be enacted in the church without the kings assent , and hence the oath of supremacie was appointed by law for every ecclesiasticall person to take : hence i aske the independant men , seeing they give that immediate ecclesiasticall power to their particular churches , which the papists doe to the pope , whether they will take the oath of supremacie , or doe acknowledge in their prayers that title of the king , defendor of the faith , &c. secondly , they hold that things lawfull in themselves ( as for instance , set formes of prayer acknowledged by them to be lawfull ) yet being enjoyned by authority are now unlawfull , so that though a forme of prayer be lawfull , yet being imposed for order , uniformity , that alters the case ( a strange paradox that things lawfull in themselves tending to order and peace , should become unlawfull when commanded . ) they affirme that christian princes & magistrates who are defenders of the faith , have no more to doe in and about the church then heathen princes . some of them deny also and question that received axiome , that the magistrate is custos utriusque tabulae ; saying of those kings of judah and israel who medled in the church with reformation and establishment of religion , that they did it not as kings , but as types of christ : so that i leave it to better judgement whether it be safe for a kingdome to tolerate such churches who maintaine and vent upon all occasions such kinde of principles ; and as the principles , so the people for a great part of them be dangerous and insufferable , heady , refractory , proud , bitter , scornefull , despisers of authority , who though but a few comparatively and the lawes standing , have attempted not to suffer the publicke prayers to be prayed , but what with singing , what with clapping on of hats in times of prayer , what with reviling and threatning of ministers , have laboured to hinder their use : now if they dare attempt such practises and things being but a few , the lawes being point blanke against them , and the lawes establishing the other , what will they not doe when they shall be multiplyed and tolerated , if they come once to a great head ? we may feare they will not tolerate the churches , and government established by law : but what insolencies and mischiefes will follow upon their toleration , not onely in ecclesiasticall government , but in civill , i leave such who are experienced men in matters of government to fore-see and judge of , but hereafter too late to remedie , but i desire rather to pray against a toleration , than to prophecy of the wofull effects of it . reason . viii . these independant men where they have power ( as in new england ) will not give a toleration for any other ecclesiasticall government or churches but in their owne way , they would not suffer men of other opinions in doctrine and government to live within the bounds of their patent , though at the furthest bounds , but have banished them . they were sent to from england by some godly ministers their brethren , men otherwise approved by them , as being against ceremonies , who being in danger of leaving the land , sent to know if they might have liberty according to their consciences to goe in a church way , something differing from theirs , and not in this independant popular government ; to which question you may reade the answer , they could not grant any other forme of government but one , seeing there is but one way of church government layd downe in the word , and that unchangeable , and therefore they cannot yeeld to it . so others of them will nottolerate , or admit into fellowship the godliest christians , unlesse they will enter into covenant , professe their faith , submit to their church orders , though they would be of their church ; so that these men who now would faine have a toleration in this great kingdome will not allow any in a remote plantation , nor in one of their small particular congregations , for feare of disturbing the peace of their church , and yet would have a toleration in this kingdome , never caring to disturbe the peace , and good of the three kingdomes which would be much hazarded by it , but thus partiall men are ( and you may observe it ) t is ordinary for men when they are not in place nor have no power in church or common-wealth , and hold also doctrines and principles contrary to what is held , and established , then to plead for tolerations , when as the same parsons comming to be in place and to have power , wil not tolerate others to set up any way different from theirs . and i beleeve those present men , who here are endeavouring a toleration for their churches had they the power in their hands to settle a government , we should have no government tolerated , nor church but the independant way , and for this see the protestation protested , what he thinkes of our church , and of what ever government shall be established . reason . ix . atoleration may be demaunded upon the same grounds for all the rigid brownists of the kingdom and for all the anabaptists , familists , and other sectaries , who professe t is conscience in them , and in some respects upon better grounds it may be moved by them , as being perswaded we are no true church , then for these semi-separatists ; nay whether may not the papists petition to , and hope to have a toleration of religion , seeing it is conscience in many of them as well as you , and if once an exemption be given from the religion established by law to one sort , why may not others thinke to have the same priviledge ? and therefore if ever the dore of tolerations should be but a little opened , there would be great crouding by al sorts to enter in at it . reason . x. the granting a toleration of this independant way whose first & fundamental principle is , that two or three saints , where ever or by what meanes soever they doe arise , separating themselves from the world into the fellowship of the gospell , are a church truely gathered and that they only have an immediate and independant power from christ their immediate head to gather and combine themselvs without expecting warrant from any governours whatsoever upon earth to make a church , doth make way for any thing for libertinism or for any opinion in the world , that so all who fall into any doctrine , or any who like not their owne ministers and church government , either because they restraine them from sinne or keepe them to gods ordinances , they may goe three or foure of them , and enter into covenant among themselves , and be a church and live without ministers and sacraments along time upon pretence that they can finde none fit for them yet ( as these independant men doe ) and when they doe chuse , then chuse such of their owne opinions and wayes , and so they may live together at liberty in ways pleasing themselves : neither can this helpe it , to say this belongs onely to saints , 't is their prerogative royall and not others , for all heretickes , sectaries , or libertines will count themselves saints as well as our independant men : they may be their owne judges , and will say that they are saints as well as you say , for the ministers and magistrates of the kingdome shall not have the power to determine who be saints and who not , so that if the state should tolerate the independancie , they know not what they tolerate , but in the belly of this independancie they tolerate and make way for libertinisme , heresie , and what ever satan and the corrupt hearts of men have a pleasure to broach and fall into . reason . x. i propound this question what these men would have in this toleration , whether the number of these independant congregations , that they would have tolerated , should be five or six congregations onely , and no more , or shall the number be left undetermined ; to bee free to multiply into as many churches as they please : if the number must be determined , this will overthrow their principles and churches quickely , as when one church breakes into two or three , as upon their principles it must , and oft times doth , as at amsterdam into two , at roterdam also , and at london , and when one of the tolerated churches breakes into two or three , which shall be reckoned , that that is the church allowed of by the state , for each part will pretend to it : but now if they say the number must be left undetermined , then we may quickely have halfe a dozen of their churches in some one parish of a city or towne , nay two or three churches in a place , sprung out of one of their owne , and we may have every where three or foure men of an opinion , differing from others to goe make a different church , and so they will encrease in infinitum , and there will be no end of divisions , and subdivisions . but before i conclude , i will answer five or sixe reasons , that be commonly alledged by them , for their toleration in this kingdome . reason . i. this is no more than what is granted to the french , and dutch , who live amongst us , and have churches and government of their owne way , exempt from the government established . answer . the case is quite different , and that will appeare by these particulars . first , those french and dutch protestants have nothing , nor desire nothing , but that which is originally according to the church and people they were borne and brought up in , they enjoy nothing as contra-distinct to the protestants of france and holland , but the independant men move for that which is contra-distinct to their owne church and nation ; yea , and to all reformed churches . secondly , this liberty was granted by our pious princes in times of persecution to the protestants , that so they might have here the exercise of their religion in their owne tongue , when they could not enjoy it at home , and it hath beene of great use upon occasions in this way ever since , for a refuge to the persecuted protestants , but what is your case to this ? you may enjoy the protestant religion in this land , and that by the law and authority of king and parliament , what colour then , that you should move for an exemption of your churches ? thirdly , these french and dutch churches will willingly be joyned in government , and in one way of discipline with the kingdome , if there be a reformation , which you will not . fourthly , these churches are not in an independant government , neither doe they hold your principles of the church , but be as much against them ( as we ) they doe admit of appeales , and in all businesse of greater moment have synods . fifthly , they being strangers amongst us of different nations and tongues , not having those relations of kindred and acquaintance with us , but keeping themselves , for the most part , among themselves , there is not that danger of drawing away the people , nor of causing schismes , as from you that are of our nation , and tongue ; neither have they , or doe ever vent principles against our church and government , ( as you doe ) but content themselves with their owne way , they neither can , nor will admit ours to be members of their congregations , in respect our people understand not their language , so that the people are so farre from leaving our churches , and becomming members of theirs , as that our people cannot so much as resort to their congregations to heare them preach , they preaching in a language the people understand not , all which is quite contrary with you . sixthly , there is a great reason and necessity of allowing them churches and places to preach , and bee by themselves , because many of them understand not english at all , and for the benefit of strangers of their religion who come over , who else could not enjoy the publicke exercise of their religion at all , and they may well be allowed some discipline among themselves in respect they maintaine al their own poore , not charging the parishes where they live with them : all which will not hold as a ground for toleration of independancy : their meetings by themselves , are not upon your principles of a church , or church government , but because of different language , &c. reason . ii. vve seeke no more then what is granted us in holland , and what wee may enjoy there in a countrey where we be strangers . . answer . if your toleration in holland , be a good ground for a toleration here , that we should doe so because holland doth it , then there should be a toleration for all religions amongst us , as jewes , anabaptists , &c. and if you would have it so , speake out plainely , there are some of you have whispered it , and often spoke of it in private , in the answer you give to these reasons . speake your mind , and if you justifie a toleration of all religions , i will discusse that question with you , and take it up against you as not fit , neither in divinity nor policy , as both against rules of conscience and policy . secondly , there may be a toleration of you in holland , with much more safety to the government established and peace of that church , then can be here in this kingdome , the people of that country not understanding your language , having little or no relation to you , nor you to them , of kindred , friendship , where as it is quite otherwise here . thirdly , that people of the hollanders generally are an industrious people minding their businesses , profits , and keeping to what 's established by their lawes , not troubling their heads so much with other points of religion , but here in england and especially in the city of london , and great townes , many professors are more idle and busie bodies , tatlers also , as it is said , tim. . . ver. very wanton also in their wits , affecting novelties in religion , and liking of points that are not established nor commonly held . fourthly , holland tolerates you and many others , but it is more upon grounds and necessitie of worldly respects , because of that benefit of excise towards the maintenance of warres which they have from them who live amongst them , so that they are paid well for it , so that in this they measure things rather vina mercatoria , than by the rule of scriptures ; and were it not for that and such respects which the state of that state hath put them upon , they would never grant tolerations , but there is not the same reason here in any respect , our riches and strength standing in one way of religion and not in tolerations . reason . iii. if wee may not have a toleration and a liberty of erecting some congregations among you , this will force us to leave the kingdome that wee may have the liberty of our consciences , and if you doe , what cruelty is this . . answer . there is no need of a toleration for you , and yet no need of forcing you to leave the kingdome that you may enjoy your consciences , and that will appeare if you calmely and meekely be content to heare reasons and principles which you your selves agree to , as namely , you hold that our churches be true churches , our ministers true ministers , ordinances of word , sacraments true , and that you can partake with us in our congregations in all ordinances even in comming to the lords supper , provided that scandalous and ignorant persons be kept backe , and ceremonies removed ; why then should you desire to set up other churches , as different from ours ? you can have but word , prayer , sacraments , and discipline in your owne , that you may enjoy in ours , is this any good reason for you to leave the kingdome ? i pray consider well , some of your ministers at first comming over said ( as i have beene told from good hands ) they could take the charge of parochiall churches amongst us upon the reformation hoped for , and they could yeild to presbyteriall government , by classes and synods , so not enjoyned to submit to it , as jure divino , but since they have gotten some more hopes ( i know not upon what grounds ) they are now very hot for a toleration , and will not heare of growing into one body with us . secondly , seeing our churches , ministers , and ordinance , be true , for you to erect new , and to withdraw from such churches ( though suppose they were in some things defective and not every way so rightly ordered as were to be desired ) i know can never be answered to god , especially you having not the power and authority from god to order those churches otherwise , and i desire you againe and againe to waigh whether you may not live in the communion of such churches , where some thing may be yet desired that is not , where it is not in your power to helpe , but that you are bound by the command of god in such cases either to leave the kingdome for that liberty , or else being private men in a land where true churches , ministers , and ordinances are , to goe and set up divided churches in that land , both against the lawes of the land , and to the scandall of all the churches , i beseech you thinke upon it what is become of fraterna toleratio , and of giving scandall , not to one brother , but to thousands of congregations of christ . and whether nothing wanting in matter of order , may be tolerated so long as a man is not put upon the practise of that which is unlawfull . as for those brownists whose principles and consciences ( though very erroneous ) hold that we have no true church , ministery , ordinances , but all is antichristian , they have a better warrant to set up new assemblies , or to leave the kingdome to enjoy their way ; but as for you to withdraw and set up separated assemblies upon no greater grounds , or causes , can never be justified , and i shall be ready upon that point to deale with any of you , and for your better satisfaction for the present , i wish the conscientious and sober ministers to read two pages in master robinsons apologie , chap. . de eccle. anglic. pag. , . wherein he grants that churches may not be departed from for circumstantiall corruptions , nor for many inconveniencies , affirming that it is neither christian prudence nor charity to doe so ; he shewes it is not an intolerable evill ( though an evill to be lamented ) for evill men to be suffered in the church , nor that discipline as it is called , or that ecclesiasticall government instituted by christ , is neglected , or violated , but that 's it , that the plaine contrary to it should be established by law , and so he goes on : now supposing our reformation , it will be otherwise with england then when he writ and the most that can be said ( supposing your principles the truth , ( though that 's denyed by us ) there will be but evill men suffered , and not men of the most profligate life , and discipline instituted willbe but neglected or violated , not that which is quite contrary as established by law , take place . thirdly , you your selves live in , and are members of such churches , and thinke it unlawfull to forsake them , where , for many yeares together you beare with defects , and want some parts of government , and officers appointed by christ , more materiall then will be in ours , upon a reformation , as namely , without pastors , elders , widowes , many yeares together , without sacraments a long time , without censures especially unlesse you allow people to be the instruments and exercise excommunication without having ordination of officers , without prophecying also many yeares ; why can you not beare with some defects in our churches , and be content to waite some yeares , till god either give you light to see your mistakes , or else till we have more light to perfect what is wanting ? you tell us that some things may be omitted for a time , as circumcision was in the wildernesse , and that affirmatives doe not binde too alwayes , and that exercise of discipline may be forborne for a time , when it is evident , it will not be for edification to the church , but destruction ; what shall hinder then , but that you ought to incorporate into our assemblies , though something yet were to be desired ? there is nothing contrary that will be put upon you ( nor quite another thing . ) fourthly , you may safely be members of our congregations in the reformation of us , and in these times , because you may without danger shew your dislike and speake against scandalous persons , and against the fault of the church , if they admit such to the sacrament , which being done , your selves grant you may communicate with them , so a letter sent from roterdam grants . and i have heard this alledged , as the reason why you first left our churches , but that reason now ceases , seeing either such persons will be wholly kept away , or else you may protest against them ( though i must tell you , that practise you judge your selves tyed to , is founded upon a false principle ) namely that the power of government is given by christ to the body of the congregation . fifthly , there is a medium betweene persecution ( as you terme it ) and a publicke toleration , a middle way betweene not suffering men to live in the land , and the granting them a liberty of separated assemblies , so that there is no necessity either of leaving the land , or of enjoying exempt congregations ( for there is a third datur tertium ) as for instance , persons may be tolerated to inhabit in a land , to enjoy their lands , and liberties , and not be compelled to professe and practise things which are against their consciences ; it is one thing to be forced and compelled positively to doe things against conscience , and another thing , not to be suffered the publicke practise of some things in separated congregations , as to illustrate it thus , suppose the papists upon their petitions to the parliament should have those statutes repealed , which enjoynes them to come to our churches , ( which they say is against their consciences ) though indeed they are bound by the command of god to come , and ought by the magistrate to be compelled to come ( as doctor davenant hath cleerely showed ) yet the granting the papists a toleration of the publicke exercise of their religion , to the scandall of the reformed churches and dishonour of god , were quite another thing , insomuch as the papists though they petition the first , ( upon deepe protestation of living peaceably , and according to the lawes of the land ) yet they move not for the last : so i judge you may live in the land freely , and enjoy your liberties and estates , comming to our churches , enjoying the ordinances , and are like never to be compelled to professe or practise what is against your judgements , the greatest inconvenience is but the forbearing of something you would have , which considering the questionablenesse of the thing , and the many other evills which would attend it , if you should enjoy it , you may in point of conscience be well satisfied without it ; so that consider well , and you may find a medium betweene leaving the land and enjoying a toleration of exempt congregations . sixthly , if all these former answers satisfie you not fully , because ( though these things be true ) yet besides these ordinances and ministers , you must be in a church way and fellowship , as now you are , then know , according to your principles of a visible church , laid downe by master robinson , and by your selves in all your manuscripts , you may enjoy your way in having severall visible churches , and that without that offence and scandall to magistrates and churches , and yet neither leave the kingdome , nor have a toleration , and that i will demonstrate thus ; two or three saints joyning together in a covenant make a church , a greater number is not required , neither officers to the essence of a church ; a greater addition of company to this two or three , though they may make for the well being and flourishing of the church , yet they are not of the essence of the church . now then every one of you in your owne families , as the husband , wife , children of age , and servants , who are visible saints , may be joyned in covenant to walke in gods wayes , and to watch over one another , so that here is a church , and every master in his family may set up holy exercises , and exercise discipline among themselves for their families , and thus in the church that is in their house , they may exercise what discipline they judge is wanting in ours , so that comming to our churches to the word , prayer , sacraments , they may serve god in their owne families among themselves in a church way , in wayes of admonition , reproofe , and other censures ; nay every church family , or most of them may have officers also amongst them , the ministers families may have a pastor or teacher , each minister being made pastor of his owne family , chosen also he may be by his family , who also may preach and instruct his family , and exercise discipline amongst them ; great families , as gentlemen or citizens may themselves be teachers of their families , according to your principles , or may have some in their families fit to be chosen elders and teachers to them , especially such of them who keepe schollers in their houses , and still chosen by the church of this family : but if there be some church families who have none fit for officers to their church ( which can hardly be in these kindes of churches ) yet this is not of the essence of the church . but as for single persons , as young men and mayds , who are of your judgement , if you aske what they shall doe , seeing they have no families , and cannot joyne two or three in a family to make a church . i answer , they may be servants unto men of their owne judgement , and live in the families of their owne way , and so may be in a church : and thus you may enjoy your owne way without scandall or division , the lawes not forbidding or medling what men doe in this kind , as how oft men pray in their owne families , or catechise them , or whom they shut out from their prayers and holy duties : but if it be said , how shall such ( as are bred schollers , the ministers of this way ) be maintained ? it is not being ministers to their owne family will maintaine them ? i answer , i have taken care to show them a way for maintenance also , how they may enjoy their country , their consciences , and maintenance , that so they need not be forced to seeke a toleration of churches , that they may be maintained , and that is thus ; supposing they will not take pastorall charges of parishes , but onely be pastors of the church in their house , yet holding it lawfull ( as they doe ) to preach in our congregations , they may take lectures amongst us , and so be maintained , there will be want of many men for lectures setled by gifts of the dead , and then no question but the government of the church , which shall be established by law , will be so moderate , that if men hold the maine points of doctrine with the church , be pious in life and peaceable , so as not to preach nor speake against what 's established by law , nor doe not make schismes to goe and set up separated assemblies ( which practises caused troubles in the church ) they may enjoy all liberty and ( as many scriptures show ) freedome , though in point of opinion and judgement there may be some difference from things established by law ( for i suppose we shall not have subscriptions enjoyned to formes of government and discipline ) but onely to doctrines , and that also in maine and cleere poynts , so that by all this you may apprehend how without a toleration , you may in a secret and peaceable way enjoy your church fellowship with maintenance also . what ever else you seeke for by a toleration of many families to make a church , is but for the more comfort & flourishing of your way , but not as that which is necessary to your way , now in a busines which is but of conveniency , & not of necessity , according to your principles , ( though you had a liberty & priviledge to enjoy it , yet ) where so muchscandal may come of your liberty , and it cannot be avoyded ( for though one of the more sober and conscientious ministers and people could use it better , yet most would abuse it ; as the rigid brownists , anabaptists , and many weake christians ) you should not use it but forbeare , so the apostle teaches us , cor. . v. . so gal. . v. . . . now a scandall is some word or action , giving an occasion of ruine to a weake brother , which practice of yours would certainely doe ; now to the avoiding the scandall of the weake , all those things are to be done or omitted , which may be done or omitted without sinne , as amesius grants , lib. . de cons. cap. . so gerson speakes , part . reg. moral . a man is bound to desist from every act , to which be is not necessarily tyed , where upon good grounds the scandall of the weake is feared . now the setting up of separated assemblies in this church , may be omitted without sinne , neither are ye necessarily tyed to it , as will appeare by this sixth answer . besides , considering all the former answers , wherein you see what you may enjoy in this kingdome in liberty of ordinances and consciences , you are not tyed for some matter of convenience , which you might enjoy in another kingdome , to withdraw from this church , and to leave your owne country , for your satisfaction in which point , i had rather doctor amesius should speake then i , to whom i referre you , who in his cases of conscience about this point , saith thus . a man may keepe communion with a church wherein wicked men are suffered , and good men depressed , and that upon severall reasons , amongst others , upon this ground ; because from such a church to a purer , there is oft times no removing without great dammages and hinderance , which ought to be avoyded alwayes ( as much as may be ) without sinne : yea such dammages and losses doe sometimes cause that an affirmative precept ceases to bind . a man may joyne himselfe and live in such a church , in which many defects are necessarily to be tolerated , yea , and joyne to that church , where the power of removing scandalls , and casting out wicked men is taken away , if he cannot without great prejudice and hurt , goe to a freer church , and men sinne not either in joyning to such a church , or continuing in it . but yet further he grants , a man may be a member of such a church in which some things instituted by christ are wanting ; and where some things appointed by men are introduced . so that i beseech you brethren , lay all these six answers together , and consider sadly whether god requires of you , unlesse you may have a toleration , to leave the kingdome : to run many hazards and dangers for churches after your way , when as you may enjoy so much at home without a toleration of exempt assemblies , as i have opened in these six answers . seventhly , if notwithstanding all that is said to you you will not be satisfied , without setting up churches against the church , it were better for you to leave the kingdome , and to returne backe to your charges , and families into holland , and others of your minde , who cannot be satisfied , to leave the land , and to goe to new england , or else where , rather then by erecting of churches by toleration or without it to disturbe the good and peace of three kingdomes ; and this will be no great harme to many of you , for you may easily returne , being able to live and subsist there comfortably ( as you say your selves : ) and for my owne part were i of your way ( so farre as i know my owne heart ) i had rather goe to the uttermost parts of the earth , though to live in a hard and meane condition , than to disturbe the peace or good of three kingdomes , as you would doe by a toleration . looke what is commonly said , praestat ut pereat unus quam unit as , it is better that one perish than unity , so i say it is farre better a few ministers and people wanted some outward accommodations of their owne countrey than that the good of the whole should be so in danger , neither is there any cruelty or persecution in it , ( as they will be apt to phrase it ) for if the purity of doctrine , holinesse of life , peace of the church cannot be preserved by such a toleration ( as i have in part shewed , and can make it plaine ) then it ought not to be , and i will speake for my selfe , and in the behalfe of hundreds of my brethren , painefull in the ministery , who have borne the brunt of the times , that we professe we will submit to the reformation and government established by law , which we doubt not but will be very blessed and glorious , but however things should fall out , we would either patiently tolerate what is not in our spheare to reforme , or quietly sit downe in the kingdome , or else with leave betake our selves to some other countryes , being fully resolved in our consciences , that circumstances in and about externall formes of government in matter of order can never be sufficient grounds to us , to set up churches against a church where true churches are , and so to prove meanes of eternall divisions and heart-burnings between ministers and people . reason . iiii. i but if these ministers , and some such churches be not tolerated , they are afraid that in time they shall draw most of the good people out of the land after them . first answer . i heare one of them say so , but i suppose they rather hope then feare it , and this plainely shewes they have a good conceit of themselves , and of their owne way . secondly , for their feare , we feare too ( but not as they doe ) but this , that if they have a toleration , they may draw away many good people , especially if the ceremonies and the liturgy stand in full force , and their churches tolerated , they will make brave worke in a short time ( though i am confident god will preserve many judicious , advised christians from their way notwithstanding : ) but let there be no toleration granted , and they once well shipt , and a reformation amongst us in government , and ministers , that feare is over with me , we feare it not , that many will follow them , for when that which first bred these men , the violent pressing of ceremonies , the casting out of good ministers , the many notorious persons suffered in the church without all censure , shall be removed , many will not be bred , and others will be satisfied , and i doubt it not but that the godly and painefull ministers of the church of england , may and will , both out-preach them , and out-live them , and may be compared with them for all excellencies , and abilities : for my part i shall speake as i finde , i knew many of them long before they fell to this way , and know them since , and have not seene any of them better , or more profitable in life and ministry , for their charge ; onely this i am sure of , for some of them , whereas whilst of the church of england they preacht often , now seldome , they goe looser in their apparell and haire , they take lesse care for the publicke in things that concerne the glory of god and salvation of mens soules , their principles & spirits grow very narrow like their churches , they grow more strange , reserved , subtile , in a word , they minde little else but the propagation of their independant way , ( as the protestation protested witnesseth abundantly ) and i shall speake my conscience from the experience i have had of many of them having studyed and observed them and their writings and never saw nor heard of any men who fell fully to that way , that ever had so large a spirit for good , afterwards to take that care of propagating the gospell and preaching the word to men without ; i never knew any man that ever god honoured so much , after he fell to those principles as before , though the same persons before have beene active for god , doing famously and worthily , yet when they fall to this way , they either blemish themselves , or doe little ; and the truth is , those principles of separation be such as god did never honour much the men who held them : looke what is sayd by them of episcopacie , that the very calling of it hath such a malignity in it , that it hurts the best men that are placed in those chaires , that i may say truely , of this way , there is a malignity cleaves to it , hurting the men that fall to it , by altering their spirits and contracting their hearts , ( though many of them continue good in the maine . ) reason . v. this is no other but envie in the ministers that makes them against a toleration , because they feare their people will desert them and come to us , being so pure in ordinances and churches ; and thus the protestation protested speakes , and t is frequently in some of their mouths . answ. . it is not out of envy to their ministers and christians ; for first i hold their practise sinfull and unwarrantable to separate from our churches and to erect such congregations , and therefore i speake against it , and that by the helpe of god i shall make good in a following discourse . . it cannot be counted envie in ministers to be unwilling to have their flockes and people fall from them , is it envie in a father to be unwilling to have his children stollen from him and tempted away by strangers ? i aske such of you who be fathers if you would be willing to have your children forsake you and that with renouncing the womb that bare them , & the paps that gave them sucke , throwing dirt into the face of father and mother ? now this is the case for ministers , to have their spirituall children whom they have begotten to god , who are their comfort and the fruite of all their labours to fall from them and to despite them afterwards cannot be pleasing , neither ought it : looke what the jewes gave out falsely concerning the naturall body of christ that his disciples came by night and stole it away , that may be sayd truely of his mysticall body , beleevers you by your tolerations would have your disciples come by night and steale them away , and therefore we ought not to sleepe , but to watch against you . answ. . i envie you not , but pity and love you , and would not have you have such a sword as a toleration put into your hands ( though some amongst you perhaps might use it better ) to hurt your selves with , and to have such an occasion to run upon the rocke of schisme , and to goe out of the way dayly turning into errours on the right hand . answ. . this author would intimate and make the world beleeve , as if only the honest soules were with them , and would be for their way , but as for them who be against their way and toleration , they are not such honest soules : but let them know honest soules are not onely with them , for in the church of england there ever have beene , and are as honest ministers and people that have rejected your way , as ever any that fell to it , nay the greatest non-conformists and most able in that way , have writ the most against you , and laboured upon all occasions to preserve people from falling to you , as mr cartwright , mr brightman , mr parker , mr hildersham , dr ames , mr bradshawe , mr ball , mr dod , mr baines , with many others . reason . vi . i but they be good men , and men of great gifts , and therefore they should bee tolerated to have such churches , t is pity they should leave the land , and we lose their prayers . answ. . the better men they be , and the more able , the worse to set up separated churches , for they will the more endanger the peace of the kingdome , and make the schismes greater . . for their prayers we may have the benefit of them as well when they are absent as present , and some of them have sayd , they pray'd more for england , when out of it than when in it . . they left the kingdome when it was in greatest danger and in most neede of helpe , and provided for themselves to keepe in a whole skin , and without them we stood here in the gap , and prevailed with god , and rather than to buy their company at such a rate as a toleration , it is better to want it , as i shewed before , and i question not but the kingdome will doe well enough though they returne , and the better unlesse they cease sowing of their principles . . for this objection of being good men , i shall answere it at large in another tractate , wherein i shall minde men of many dangers that may arise to them from good and eminent men , and fully shew what little strength there is in that reason ; clearing also many things in reference to that objection . quest . i , but may not conscientious men who agree with us in the maine in points of doctrine and practise , be tolerated and spared in some things wherein they differ from what is commonly received ? answ. yes , i doe in my judgement much allow of bearing and forbearing one another in many differences of opinions and practises , so as christians ought not to judge nor censure one another , nor refuse communion and fellowship by not admitting men into their churches and to the ordinances upon such points ( which is the great fault of the independant churches , denying communion to many saints for some differences in judgement about church government and orders ; which practise of theirs is expresse against the . rom. . ) neither to force men to change their mindes and opinions by casting them violently out of the ministry and church ( which was the practise of many in these late times , and hath caused so many schismes and stirres amongst us : ) i approve not such practises , but desire to be a follower and lover of all the wayes of peace and communion , with any who agree in the maine , and have something of god and christ in them : the practise of anicetus and polycarpus , with that of cyprian , are infinitely pleasing to me ( and i wish they were more imitated ) polycarpus and anicetus in the difference about keeping of dayes , though neither of them could perswade the other to change their custome , yet they kept fast the bond of christian fellowship ; anicetus admitting polycarpus to the communion of the roman church , and departing in peace one from the other . cyprian ( though he erred in the point of rebaptization ) yet he would not condemne them rashly who were of a contrary opinion , nor refuse communion with them , professing that for the difference of opinions , he would not breake the lords peace with his colleagues , nor remove any that was of a different minde from him , from the right of communion : so that men may be tolerated in their differences of opinions , so long as they keepe communion with a church , and submit to the discipline and orders so as to be peaceable and not to speake against what 's established by common consent , nor practise to the scandall and contempt of the magistrates and church : but if a few men , halfe a dozen or halfe a score ministers , refuse communion with a church , rending from the body , by setting up of a church against a church , preaching and venting their opinions every where , to the disturbance of a kingdome , and the drawing of disciples after them , though they were ministers of gold , and had the tongue of men and angells , yet they should not have a toleration ; upon which subject they may read a calvins last epistle to farellus , wherein calvins counsell concerning farellus colleague is this ; that if he will not be reduced to order , the ministers should tell him that he is not to be reckoned of as a brother , who doth disturbe the common discipline by his contumacie : this was ever a custome in the church which was decreed in ancient synods , that who would not subject to the lawes of common discipline should bee put by his place . neither is the authority of men here to bee sought after , when as the spirit of god pronounces of such , cor. . . that the church hath no custome of contending . so that in all this discourse against a toleration , i have not written out of violence of spirit , cruelty , or ill will to the men , for i love and respect them , ( though for the present in an errour ) but from a zeale to the glory of god , and the good of this church for the preservation of purity of doctrine , holinesse of life and peace , ( which cannot stand with a toleration ) and though i be earnest in this cause , t is not from suddaine apprehension or passion , for i have had long thoughts of this church way , and i doe apprehend more evill in it , than men doe see at first , or than the independants can see , it being their owne cause , and they many wayes engaged in it : o that the independant ministers would with an impartiall desire of satisfaction , consider what hath beene written , and be perswaded to lay aside all thoughts of setting up separated assemblies , and come and grow into one body , joyning in one way with us ! for which end i will commend to them the councell of b calvin , given in a like case concerning a minister , who dissented from the the rest of his fellowes . let him remember amongst other things what paul requires in a pastor , this is not the last , that he ought not to be selfe willed , that is , addicted to his own proper judgement ; and certainely this is one of the chiefe vertues of a good pastor , so from the whole heart to feare contentions , that he may never dissent from his brethren , unlesse it be for causes greatly necessary . now considering what they may enjoy in this church ( as i have before shewed at large in the answers to the three reasons ) some circumstances about the manner and forme of discipline ( as the exercising of it independantly ) cannot be a cause greatly necessary , especially if we will beleeve calvin c who affirmes that the scriptures expresse the substance of ecclesiasticall discipline , but the forme of exercising it , because t is not prescribed by the lord , it ought to be ordered and appointed by the ministers for edification . please not your selves in your opinions , be not so addicted to your owne judgement ( for t is certaine saith calvin d that every mar who is addicted and wedded to his owne judgement , so soone as ever an occasion offers it selfe , will be a schismaticke : of which reade more in that place . and thus i have delivered my owne soule , hoping that either our brethren will withdraw their petitions so as they shall never be read in the honourable house of commons , or if they should , i hope the house will cast them out , for i am perswaded it shall never be sayd of this parliament in the ages to come , that they were the first that opened a dore for tolerations , and for setting up of churches against the church ; which if ever that dore should be opened ( which god of his mercy keepe shut ) i leave it to their great wisedomes to fore-see what infinite evils would in processe of time come upon this kingdome , and whether the succeeding generations would not write in their chronicles and histories ( as is written of naaman , king. . . now naaman was a great man with his master , and honourable , because by him the lord had given deliverance unto syria : he was also a mighty man in valour , but he was a leper ) such a parliament was great and honourable because by them the lord gave deliverance unto england , it was also a mighty parliament for executing justice , and for making such and such excellent lawes , but it granted a toleration ; whether this would not cast a darke shaddow upon their glorious light , and be as a dead flye in the oyntment of the apothecary ; i humbly submit to their judgement . but to conclude this discourse both against independancie , and against tolerations , the day is shortly comming will try all , and i rejoyce in the thoughts of it , in regard of the accounts i shall give about this controversie of separation , nothing doubting but in that great day ( christ of his rich grace pardoning the weaknesses that have , may , and doe cleave to me in the manner of managing it ) will owne my whole worke , and endeavours against that way of separation , as stirred up by his owne spirit , and followed all along by his spirit , enabling mee in it and to it above my owne strength ; and though i expect many censures and reproaches from that sort of men yet then i shall have prayse with god , and the reward of all my labour , for truth , love , peace , and holinesse , which i aime at in this and all other discourses about this controversie . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- melch. adam . vita oecolamp . pag. . melch. adam vit bucer p. . melch. ad. vit tosan . pag. . melc . ad vita brent . pag . quid ? nonne vident dissidia nostra esse amicorum dispendia , hostium compendia , & publica irae divinae incendia . junius bi●enu . epist. land has . adeo vetera●●ie hic antiqu●s d●aco imprudentiae nostrae ne vit illudere . quisquis volens detrabir fama meae , iste nob●● addit mercedi meae . augustirus regium est male audire cum bene feceris . king. c. ult. v. . chron. . v. . king . v. . theod. hist. eccle. . l. . cap. . diruendi sunt etiam ipsi ciconiarum nidi ne redeant . lavat. in deurer . theod. heret . fab. lib. . de nest . a nestorius speaking against the personall union of the divine and humane nature of christ : extiches fell into an error contrary , confounding the natures , that he would have the humane nature so swallowed up by the immensitie of the divine nature in christ , that there was not two natures in christ , but one onely , to wit , the divine nature , evag. lib. . cap. . so ofiander broaching that error , that christ was our mediatour only according to the divine nature , stancarus opposing that fell into another error that christ was mediator only according to the humane schlussels de stancar . pag. . so flacius illyricus opposing strigelius who made originall sinne to be but a light kind of accident , he to aggravate the monstruousnesse of originall sinne , fell into that errour , that originall sinne was the substance of a man , schlussels de secta manic : pag. . * polypus petrae cui adhaesit colorem referens . nazianz : de se ipso . oreg . naz ad episcop. theod. lib. . haeret : fabul . parvus error in initio fit magnus in fine , negligenda non sunt parva initia , ex quibus paulatim majores fiunt accessiones . notes for div a e- zanch. in . . pr. p. . . calv. instit. lib. . c. . sect. . . rob. apol. ca. . . zanch. in . pr. . calv. lib. . c. . sect. . cameron dic eccle. . p. . robinson apol. c. . de presb. . eccles. p. . calv. instit. lib. . cap. . sect , . zanch. in . pr. , . p. ames . lib. . cap. . zanchius in . praecept . p. . amesius lib. pr. medul . cap. . question . zanch. in . pr. p. . quod peritiores igitur pertinet examinatio & qui plus habeant authoritatis . zanch in pr. p. . ames . lib. pr● . cap. . * cameron . non est credibile dominum nostrum jesum christum ( qui non est perturbationis & confusionis author sed ordinis ) voluisse judicia esse penes plebem , quae vel ob imperitiam rerum vel ob affectuū perturbationem accipere debet ; non dare leges , & judicium subire , non ferre . dic ecelesi pag. . see syons prerog. p. . robinsons catechisme . rob. apol. cap. . p. . manus of covent . sent from holland . examination of prelates petition , p . manus . of coven sent from holland . vide assert . of the church of scotland , p. , , . lib pr●med . theol. cap. . med. theolo . lib. . cap. . pag. . amesi . lib. pr. ca. . de discipl . eccl. notes for div a e- pareus in gal. . v. . . so calvin in gal . v. . . i intreat the independant men in the feare of god to read & consider what is more fully set down in those two verses by calvin and pareus . manus . of a●● treatise of the church . a liturgie imposed is popery saith the protestation protested . manus treatis . of a church . robins . apol. c. . vide ans. from new england to the . quest . sent by some lancashire ministers . rob. justific . . manus treatis . of a church . notes for div a e- if you may publiquely protest against such as you know should not be admitted , and declare against the churches faultinesse in not proceeding against them , you may communicate with them , because you have done all you can in this case . daven. determ. quest . . reb. catechis . ans. to . quest . reb. justific . pag. . manus . treat. of a church . i propound these things as being according to their principles , but not as mine . ames . lib. . de cons. cap. . de 〈◊〉 . and what ever liturgie or ceremonies or discipline are left to accompany this nationall church government , t is indifferent with us , so as we may enjoy our christian libertie in the true use of such ordinances , and of such independant government as christ the onely law-giver of his church , and lord of the conscience , hath left unto us in his word . rom. . . a cal. farel . epist. . quod si pervicaciter recusare institerit , denuncient sibi non esse loco fratris , qui communem disciplinam contumacia sua perturbet : semper hoc in ecclesia valuit , quod veteribus synodis suit decretum , ut qui subjici communis disciplinae legibus noluerit munere abdi●●●●●neque hic quaerenda est hominum authoritas , cum spiritus sanctus de talibus pronunciaverit , ecclesiam non habere morem contendendi , valere ergo ipsum jubeant , qui communis societatis jura respuit . b fratrem vero illum qui hactenus a vobis dissensit , obsecramus in domino ne ulterius pertinacia contendat ad repugnandum . meminerit inter alia , quae paulus in pastore requirit , hoc esse non postren {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , nesit {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , hoc est proprio judicio addictus . et cene haec una est ex praecipuis virtutibus boni pastoris , sic exhorrere toto pectore contentiones ut nunquam a fratribus nisi ob causas maxime necessarias , dissideat , cal. epi. . c substantiam ecclesiasticae disciplinae exprimit di sertis verbis scriptura : forma autem ejus exercendae , quoniam a domino praescript non est , a ministris constitui debet pro aedificatione , cal. epist. . d et certe omni , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , simulac se occasio dederit , itarim ●et schismaticus . cai in tit. . v. . the first and second part of gangræna, or, a catalogue and discovery of many of the errors, heresies, blasphemies and pernicious practices of the sectaries of this time, vented and acted in england in these four last years also a particular narration of divers stories, remarkable passages, letters : an extract of many letters, all concerning the present sects : together with some observations upon and corollaries from all the fore-named premisses / by thomas edwards ... gangraena. part - edwards, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the first and second part of gangræna, or, a catalogue and discovery of many of the errors, heresies, blasphemies and pernicious practices of the sectaries of this time, vented and acted in england in these four last years also a particular narration of divers stories, remarkable passages, letters : an extract of many letters, all concerning the present sects : together with some observations upon and corollaries from all the fore-named premisses / by thomas edwards ... gangraena. part - edwards, thomas, - . the third edition, corrected and much enlarged. [ ], , [ ], , [ ] p. printed by t.r. and e.m. for ralph smith ..., london : . special t.p., p. [ ], third group: the second part of gangraena, or, a fresh and further discovery of the errors, heresies, blasphemies, and dangerous proceedings of the sectaries of this time ... -- london : printed by t.r. and e.m. for ralph smith ..., . errata: p. . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sects -- england -- early works to . heresy -- early works to . sects -- early works to . great britain -- church history -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - tcp staff (michigan) sampled and proofread - spi global rekeyed and resubmitted - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the first and second part of gangraena : or a catalogue and discovery of many of the errors , heresies , blasphemies and pernicious practices of the sectaries of this time , vented and acted in england in these four last yeers . also a particular narration of divers stories , remarkable passages , letters ; an extract of many letters , all concerning the present sects ; together with some observations upon , and corollaries from all the fore-named premisses . by thomas edwards minister of the gospel . the third edition , corrected and much enlarged . tim . . , . now as jannes and jambres withstood moses , so do these also resist the truth : men of corrupt minds , reprobate concerning the faith. but they shall proceed no further , for their folly shal be manifest to all men , as theirs also was . pet. . , . but there were false prophets also among the people , even as there shall be false teachers among you , who privily shall bring in damnable heresis , even denying the lord that bought them , and bring upon themselves swift destruction . and many shall follow their pernicious wayes , by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evill spoken of . jude vers . . these be they who separate themselves , sensuall , having not the spirit . lutherus in epist. ad galat. maledicta sit charitas , qua servatur cum jactura doctrinae fidei , cui omnia cedere debent , charitas , apostolus , angelus é coelo . lutheri epist. ad staupitium . non hic tempus timendi , sed clamandi , ubi dominus noster jesus christus damnatur , exuitur & blasphematur : mi pater grandius est periculum quam credant multi . inveniar sane superbus , avarus , adulter , homicidia , antipapa , & omnium vitiorum reus , modo impii filentii non arguar , dum dominus patitur . london , printed by t. r. and e. m. for ralph smith , at the sign of the bible in cornhill near the royall exchange . m.dc.xlvi . reader , that thou mayest discern the mischief of ecclesiasticall anarchy , the monstrousnesse of the much affected toleration , and be warned to be wise to sobriety , and fear and suspect the pretended new lights , i approve that this treatise , discovering the gangrene of so many strange opinions , should be imprinted . james cran●or . to the right honourable the lords and commons assembled in parliament . right honourable and noble senatours , i here present you with a catalogue or black bill of the errours , heresies , blasphemies , and practices of the sectaries of this time , broached and acted within these four last years in england , and that in your quarters , and in places under your government and power , for which i tremble to thinke lest the whole kingdom should be in gods black bill : i much fear lest the subject matter of this catalogue may prove unto england ( unlesse some speedy and effectuall course be taken to prevent it ) like the bill of divorce given to israel ; jer. . . like the roll of the book commanded from god to be written by jeremiah against israel and judah , jer. . . like the roll of a book sent by a hand to ezekiel , ezek. . , . wherin was written , lamentations , mourning and wo ; or like the hand-writing upon the wall against belshaz . dan. . . & the flying roll in zech. c. . v. , . a curse going over the face of the whole land . and unto whom , right honourable , should i present and make known these things , but unto you , who are the supreme iudicatory of this kingdom , having that sufficiency of power , which only is able to remedy and redresse them , who are our great physician 's , and have been wont to cure the worst maladies and diseases of our church and state , who are by god himself stiled gods , and therefore should above others lay to heart and be sensible of the injuries and dishonours done to god and his name . and i humbly pray your honours to beare with me in my addresses this way , as having no other meanes but this , of acquainting you with the sad state of things in our church : and yet 't is necessary you should hear of these things , for as 't is said in the prophet jeremiah , concerning the making of that roll , it may be the house of judah will hear all the evill which i purpose to do to them , that they may turne every one from his evill way , it may be they will present their supplications before the lord , that he may forgive their iniquity and their sin ; so it may be some good may come of this book , to cause an humiliation for , and a suppression of heresies and schimes , as being a more free and f●ll discovery of our times then ever yet was made , and therefore i send it abroad in this way , whereby it may be read by all judah : and i doubt not but some faithfull baruchs , who are not shut up , but do preach before you on fast dayes , will cause you to hear the words of this book in the lords house , by applying them to your consciences , and making them a catalogue of sins for matter of humiliation to you on those dayes , showing how far they may become yours in suffering without punishment and censure too many of them . and now , noble and worthy senatours , be graciously pleased to pardon the boldnesse i shall take in dealing plainly with you in this present epistle , and not to impute it to any malignity and disaffection to your service , or to peremptory saucinesse , and disrespect of you , ( for besides that some worthy members of parliament to whom i am known can testifie the contrary , all my actions from the beginning of your sitting , my sermons , prayers , prayses , discourses , actings for you speak otherwise : i am one who out of choise and judgement have imbarked my self with wife , children , estate , and all that 's dear to me in the same ship with you , to sinke and perish , or to come safe to land with you , and that in the most doubtfull and difficult times , not only early in the first beginning of the war and troubles , in a malignant place among courtiers , and those who were servants and had relations to the king , queen and their children , pleading your cause , justifying your wars , satisfying many that scrupled : but when your affairs were at lowest , and the chance of war against you , and some of the grandees and favourites of these times were packing up , and ready to be gone , i was then highest and most zealous for you , preaching , praying , stirring up the people to stand for you by going out in person , lending of money , in the later going before them by example ; and as i have been your honours most devoted servant so am i still yours , and you cannot easily lose me ; and i do humbly 〈…〉 self ▪ and book at the feet of your wisedome and piety submitting both to your ple●s●re but to the matter and contents of this book , and to the present state of things . i am bound and stirred in spirit , to see the people so given to errour and schisme , and the zeal of gods house and glory constrains me , and i can no longer forbear speaking my whole heart to you . the evills of this kinde are grown to such a height as there is the more time for silence , or for being afraid , but of crying out and speaking plainly . and i am confident when your honours have read over my book ( which i humbly desire you in the fear of god , and for the glory of christ to do , as luther bespeaks the reading of an epistle of his ) that will be a just apologie with you for my freenesse and boldnesse . o the evil of ●hese times would put zeal into the heart of any man , who hath any l●ve to the glory of god , his truth , and the souls of people , and make the stammering tongue to speak 〈…〉 to speak and cry out . croesus son who was born dum●be , whe● he saw one going to kill his father , spake and cryed out , o kill not croesus . and now when our father , our saviour and blessed spirit are wounded by damnable heresies and blasphemies , and many precious souls destroyed , can we be silent ! o cursed be the silence and flattery that is in such a time as this : for now things are grown to a strange passe , ( though nothing is now strange , ) and every day they grow worse and worse , and you can hardly conceive and imagine them so bad as they are ; no kinde of blasphemy , heresie , disorder , confusion , but either is found among us , or a coming in upon us ; for we in stead of a reformation , are grown from one extreme to another , fallen from scylla to charibdis , from popish innovations , superstitions , and prelaticall tyranny , to damnable heresies , horrid blasphemies , libertinisme , and fearfull anarchy ; our evils are not removed and cured , but only changed ; one disease and divell hath left us , and another as bad is come in the room ; yea , this last extremity in which we are fallen , is far more high , violent and dangerous in many respects ; all which in an epistle cannot be contained , but are laid down in the following book in many places , specially in the eleventh corollary . luther in an epistle to spalatinus , calls want of freedome in a minister , irremissible peccatum , an unpardonable sin ; and silence in the neglecting of truth , a wicked silence ; and in an epistle to staupitius saith , let me be found any thing , a proud man , an adulterer , murderer , and guilty of all wickednesse , so as i be not convicted of wicked silence whilst the lord suffers . the consideration of which , makes me well contented to run the venture of being accounted proud , saucy , peremptory , and of incurring the hazard of your displeasure by speaking freely ( though i hope better things ) then to let the glory and honour of christ and his truth suffer any longer by my silence ; for i call the most high god to witnesse , that ( so far as i know my own heart ) what freedome i here use , in laying open the state of things before you , is not out of any sinister respect , or any pleasure i take in this liberty ( for i have had many carnall reasonings and conflicts in my spirit against it ) but only out of the great necessity of the times , moved thereunto out of love and zeal to the glory of god and his truth my faithfulnesse to your honours , compassion to the souls of those for whom christ dyed , and the delivering of my own soul in the discharge of my conscience . great persons , as princes , nobles and counsellours , through their high places , multitude of affairs , flatteries , are subject to great failings and infirmities , as both scriptures , and all histories shew : but this hath been the praise and honour of some of them , that upon being minded by faithful ministers of their faults , they have laid it to heart . theodosius that noble emperour had many infirmities , as that cruell fact of his against the inhabitants of thessalonica , as his being angry out of measure against the people of antiochia , as his lenity towards arians , whom he permitted to keep conventions in chief cities ; but in all his faults this is observed and admired by the ecclesiasticall historians who writ of him , that he ever gave place to wholsome admonitions , and amended upon being dealt with , as by flavianus bishop of antiochia , amphilochius bishop of iconium , ambrose bishop of millain ; and he took ambroses liberty of speaking to him so well , that he did not only give him thanks , but said of him to his praise , i have at length found a master of truth , for i have known ambrose only a bishop worthy of that name . it was one of the sins of the prelates and court chaplains ( for which among others god hath cast them out ) to flatter , and the sin of the court , that the ministers that preached there , must sing placentia , speak smooth things . now far be it from such a high court of parliament as you , ( who above other parliaments are in solemne covenant with god for reformation , nationall , dom●sticall , personall , and have professed to engage your hearts for god and his work ▪ ) and from the ministers who stand up for you , and adhere to you , to be faulty in the same kinde : be pleased therefore in the midst of your many great affairs which even swallow you up , and by reason of which you have not time to hear and know all things concerning the state of religion , to suffer one of your daily remembrancers to god , to be gods remembrancer to you . you have , most noble senatours , done worthily against papists , prelats and scandalous ministers , in casting dowe images , altars , crucifixes , throwing out ceremonies , &c. but what have you done against other kinds of growing evills , heresie , schisme , disorder , against seekers , anabaptists , antinomians , brownists , libertines and other sects ? you have destroyed baal and his priests ; but have you been zealous against golden calves , and the priests of the lowest of the people ? are not these grown up , and dayly increase under you ? are any effectuall meanes used against them ? you have made a reformation , and blessed be god who put it into your hearts to do such things ; but with the reformation have we not a deformation , and worse things come in upon us then ever we had before ? were any of those monsters heard of heretofore , which are now common among us ? as denying the scriptures , pleading for a toleration of all religions and worships , * yea for blasphemy and denying there is a god. you have put down the book of common prayer : and there are many among us have put down the scriptures , slighting , yea blaspheming them . you have broken down images of the trinity , christ , virgin mary , apostles : and we have those who overthrow the doctrine of the trinity , oppose the divinity of christ , speak evill of the virgin mary , sleight the apostles . you have cast out the bishops and their officers : and we have many that cast down to the ground all ministers in all the reformed churches . you have cast out ceremonies in the sacraments , as the crosse , kneeling at the lords supper : and we have many cast out the sacraments , baptisme and the lords supper . you have put down saints dayes : and we have many make nothing at all of the lords dayes , and fast dayes . you have taken away the superfluous excessive maintenance of the bishops , deanes : and we have many take away and cry down the necessary maintenance of the ministers . in the bishops dayes we had singing of psalmes taken away in some places , conceived prayer , preaching , and in their room , anthems , stinted forms and reading brought in ; and now we have singing of psalms spoken against and cast out of some churches , yea all publike prayer questioned , and all ministeriall preaching denyed . in the bishops times popish innovations ▪ were introduced , as bowing at altars , &c. and now we have anointing the sick with oyle ; then we had bishopping of children , now we have bishopping of men and women , by strange laying on of hands , as is related in this following book . in the bishops dayes we had many unlearned ministers , and have we not now a company of jereboams priests ? in the bishops dayes we had the fourth commandement taken away , but now we have all ten commandements at once by the antinomians ; yea all faith and the gospell denyed , as by the seekers . the worst of the prelats , in the midst of many popish , arminian tenets , and popish innovations , held many sound doctrines , and had many commendable practices ; yea the very * papists hold and keep to many articles of faith and truths of god , have some order among them , encourage learning , have certain fixed principles of truth , with practises of devotion and good works ; but many of the sects and sectaries in our dayes , deny all principles of religion , are enemies to all holy duties , order , learning , overthrowing all , being vertiginosi spiritus , whirlegigg spirits ; and the great opinion of an universall toleration , tends to the laying of all waste , and dissolution of all religion and good manners . now are not these errours , heresies and schismes , spots and blots in our reformation ? do they not blemish and cast a dark shadow upon all the light part ? are they not the dead flies in the apothecaries ointment , sending forth a stinking savour ? are they not the reproach and rejoycings of the common enemy ? the scandall of the weak , the blasing star of the times ? and are not sectaries strangely suffered , connived at , keeping open meetings in the heart of the city ? yea printing with * license their erroneous opinions , and daring to give into some of your hands such books as 't is a shame to speak of ? being let so alone , that they are grown up to many thousands both in city and country . christ in revel . . . highly commends the angel of the church of thyatira for his works service , faith , patience , &c. but yet reproves and threatens him for suffering without punishment false doctrines to be taught , and disorders to be practised in the church : but i have a few things against thee , because thou sufferest that woman jezebel , which calleth her self a prophetesse , to teach and to seduce my servants : and be pleased to observe what truth that scripture holds out , namely , that a connivence and suffering without punishment false doctrines and disorders , persons to preach whom god hath not called , and to preach errours , heresies , blemishes and dashes the most glorious works , and provokes god to send judgements ; a toleration doth eclipse and darken the glory of the most excellent reformation . god accounts all those errours , heresies , schismes , &c. committed in a land , but let alone , and suffered without punishment by those who have authority and power , to be the sins of those who have power , and he will proceed against them as if they were the authors of them . a man comes to be pertaker of other mens sins , by countenancing , consenting and suffering withou punishment , as well as by formally committing them . * solomon in . king. . from ver . . to . is counted by god to be guilty of all the idolatry committed by his wives and their followers , and accordingly god is angry with him and threatens him , because being a king , he had power in his hands to hinder it , not that solomon did bring into the house of god idols , or ever commanded the people to forsake the worship of god and to worship idols , or that he did in his own persont worship idols ; this only is certain , that he suffered them to build altars , and sacrifice to strange gods . ephes. . . 't is the command of god , to have no fellowship with the unfruitfull works of darknesse , that is , not by consenting , helping , imitating & suffering them without reproof ; now a magistrates reproving , is by using coercive power to punish and suppresse evills , as is evident in the example of old eli to his sons , who though he did reprove by words , yet because he punished them not , he was partaker of their sins , and was severely punished by god for it , . sam. . , , . chap. . . . now , right honourable , though you hold none of these opinions , practise not these wayes , neither command any of these things , but have put out declarations , wherin there are some passages against anabaptists , brownists and other sects , and made orders and ordinances for the preventing and remedying of many of these evills ; as that order of febr. . . that ministers suffer none to preach in the places where they have charge , but such as they will be answerable for ; as the ordinance against the preaching of persons not ordained in this or some other reformed church ; as the ordinance of not printing without license ; yea upon complaint have questioned and troubled some sectaries for their errours and pernicious practises ; yet notwithstanding there is a strange unheard of suffering and bearing with them , and such a one , as i beleeve all things considered , never was there the like under any orthodox christian magistrate and state. how do sects and schismes increase and grow daily , sectaries doing even what they will , committing insolencies and outrages , not only against the truth of god and the peace of the church , but the civill state also , going up and down countries , causing riots , yea tumults and disturbances in the publike assemblies ! how do persons cast out of other countries for their errours , not only live here , but gather churches , preach publikely their opinions ! what swarmes are there of all sorts of illiterate mechanick preachers , yea of women and boy preachers ! what a number of meetings of sectaries in this citiy , eleven at least in one parish ! what liberty of preaching , printing of all errours , or for a toleration of all , and against the directory , covenant , monethly fast , presbyteriall government , and all ordinances of parliament in reference to religion , and most of these persons either never questioned at all , or if questioned , abusing those in a high manner who question them , coming off one way or other , and afterwards going on in spreading their errours more then before , or if committed by some below , whereby they are hindred from preaching and dipping , then brought off and released by some above ( of which they bragg and boast ) yea many sectaries countenanced , imployed and preferd to speciall places both of profit , honour and trust , and that which is saddest of all ( and yet too true ) orthodox worthy persons , who being in places of power , for preventing mischiefs and evills questioning some sectaries for their unlawfull meetings and false doctrines , have been lookt upon ever after with an evill eye , and opportunities watcht to molest and displace them . in a word there hath not been to this day any exemplary restraint of the sectaries ( as ever i heard ) by vertue of any of your ordinances , but they are sleighted and scorned , and as it was formerly with the kings proclamations against the iesuits , priests , papists , and forbidding to go to masse , there were the more priests in the kingdom , and more went to masse ; ( the proclamations being never looked after , and when any zealous protestants in place did go to execute them , they had little thanks for their pains , and those they questioned were to hard for them , getting off ; ) so preaching of lay-men was never more in request then since your ordinance against it ; presbyteriall government never more preached , printed against , then since your votes , orders and ordinances for it ; never more dangerous unlicensed books printed , then since the ordinance against unlicensed printing ; and when men have been complained of for the breach of ordinances , as that of lay preaching &c. how are they dismissed , and preach still , infect still ? look what wayes were taken heretofore by the popish party and prelates who pretended to be protestants , in favour of the papists , arminians , and discountenancing zealous protestants ; the same will be found to be now in use in behalfe of the sectaries against presbyterians ; and if you be but pleased to review your own remonstrances , either in former , or in this present parliament , or remember the maximes and grounds you proceeded upon in questioning many , and by what rules you judged of intentions to overthrow the protestant religion , and to advance popery , armianisme , and then look upon the proceedings of some , you will finde the same steps trod in now , and the same course taken in favour of the sects : ( but an epistle is too narrow a compasse to particularize all things of this kinde , and a word is enough to the wise ) and yet i do not say your honours have done these things ; for there are matters of this nature you hear not of , and upon complaints of things that have come immediatly to your houses , there hath been some redresse ; yet such things are done by committees , or persons under your power and government , and no effectuall wayes taken to prevent , discover or remedy these things . now i humbly submit to your deep judgment , whether god account not men guilty of that which is committed by others under them , they having power to hinder it ; as also , whether it will not be interpreted by men , that there is certainly great countenance and favour above , or else persons below dare not do as they do . and be pleased to suffer me , as a minister of christ , to bring to your remembrance ( which i do in all humility , ) these following scriptures . levit. . , sam. . , , , . cap. . . , . king. . cap. . . cap. . . king. . from . to . jerems . . . dan. . . . , . , , , , . amos . , . . hag. . , , . gal. . . revel . . , , , , , , . which texts of scripture , with the examples laid down in them , i name not as if i would compare your honours with jeroboam , belshazzar , &c. or charge on you their facts in kinde , or that i wish such evills should come to you ; no , let the interpretation of these scriptures be to your enemies , and the fulfilling of them to them that hate you ; but because whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning , and all the things which were threatned and hapned to eli , jeroboam , jehu , belshazzar , &c. were for examples , and written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world are come ; therefore i minde you of these scriptures , that you may fear to fall into any such kinde of sins , or to suffer such to be done when 't is in your power to hinder . the sects have been growing upon us ever since the first year of your sitting , and have every year increased more and more ; things have been bad a great while , but this last year they are grown intolerable ; and if schisme , herosie , &c. be let alone and rise proportionably for one year longer , we shall need no cavaliers nor enemies from without to destroy us . certainly god looks for other manner of fruit from you ; the great deliverances , victories , successes , the solemn covenant , protestations , remonstrances , declarations made to god , this kingdom , the kingdome of scotland , and all the reformed churches , call and speak for other kinds of things . the reformed churches abroad wonder at these things , and say , why may not the king as lawfully tolerate papists , one false religion , as the parliament suffer all sects to grow ? besides their love , zeal and prayers for you begins to languish and grow faint . our dear brethren of scotland stand amazed and astonished , and had they not seen these things , could not have beleeved them . the orthodox , godly considerable party , both ministers and people in city and country , by whose means under god , you are now so strong and lifted up above your enemies , are grieved , offended , and much discouraged ; the common enemy scornes , blasphemes , and reproaches the reformation , looking upon us as given up to a spirit of giddinesse and errour . the malignants every where turne sectaries and independents , siding with them and pleading their cause ; and they do wisely , there being no such way as that to save their purses , live quietly , and to undermine you and effect the enemies work . and what can think you will be issue of these things ? it is high time therfore for your honours to awake and be doing , to suffer no longer these sects and schismes , these disorders and confusions that are in the midst of us , but to fall upon some effectuall wayes , as you in your great wisdomes shall finde out , and to do something worthy a parliament in this kinde also . do this and god is on your right hand to helpe you , and you shall not be removed for ever , the kingdom of scotland , the reformed churches , this great city with the ministers to stand by you and to honour you : do it not , but let things still run on thus , and all kinde of errours , confusions , &c. increase , and know god is a righteous god , and will require it at your hands , visit and be avenged for these things . and let no man flatter you with your great prosperity and successe , that your mountain is now so strong that you shall never be moved ; but remember that god is a god changing the times and seasons , that removes kings and sets up kings , dan. . . that can quickly bring down that part of the wheel below which was highest , that made a sudden change to belshazzar in an hour , dan. . , , , . that god who is said to scatter kings , can scatter you : psal. . . look upon the court party , the great counsellours of state , and prelates , whose height was like the height of the cedars , and were strong as the oaks , yet the lord destroyed their fruit from above , and their root from beneath ; and cannot he do so to you ? i beseech you fear , considering the great dishonour of god and his name , and the sad estate of things under your goverment , lest god bring some great afterclap upon you , and have an after reckoning , either giving you up at last to the hands of those that are now in armes against you , or sending an evill spirit of division among your selves and the two nations , or making use of the sects ( that party when grown stronger , who have been so much suffered to grow under you , ) to become thorns in your sides , and pricks in your eyes , to cast you out , and to teach you new law and new divinity , as they have done already in many of their books ( as englands birthright , a letter from an utter barrester , a letter call'd englands lamentable slavery , lilburns letters to mr prynn , to a friend , innocency and truth justified , cum multis alijs , ) or by sending some other judgement , as the pestilence , &c. ( all which i earnestly pray god to prevent . ) and truly when i think of things by my self , and behold to what a height errours , heresies , &c. are come , and withall reflect upon the great things god hath done for you , the many powerfull sermons you have had preached before you about the nationall covenant , and against the sects , the many petitions representing the evill and danger of these things , and yet how little is done , our evills of this kinde rising higher and higher , in the increase of false doctrines , and a greater multiplication of schismes every day then other ; i tremble for fear , lest for the want of zeal in suffering so many dishonours of god , and his house to lie so long waste , the word be gone out of his mouth already which he spake against eli ; i said indeed that thy house , and the house of thy father should walke before me for ever : but now the lord saith ; be it far from me , for them that honour me i will honour , and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed . but to draw towards a conclusion , there is no other way to prevent all this wrath , but to be zealous and repent , to do something speedily and effectually against the errours , heresies , schismes , blasphemies and confusions of these times . ob. but if any shall object , it cannot be done now , it will discontent and disingage the sectaries who are a considerable party , and so may prove dangerous to the parliament in this juncture of time , by causing many to fall off their service . ans. are we afraid of discontenting , disingaging and losing a few men , and not discontenting and losing god! shall god be displeased to please men ! shall we fear the want of mans helpe whose breath is in his nostrils , and not fear god! o that we would once cease from man , for wherein is he to be accounted of ? secondly , i answer , this objection is taking counsell , but not of god ; a covering , but not of gods spirit ; isa. . . this carnall policie of suffering corruptions in religion for fear of losing a party , and strengthening kingdoms , hath proved the ruin of families and kingdoms ; be pleased to remember jeroboam , jehu , &c. who out of policie for fear of losing a party and strengthening the other side , set up and suffered the golden calves and priests of the lowest of people , and this very thing became a snare , and the losse of the kingdom to them ; and i might shew out of ecclesiasticall histories many examples of sad things befalling princes , who out of policies or any carnall respects , have suffered all sorts of sects and heresies ; but i will only instance in one out of * baronius , of valentinianus senior , who suffered in the west the christians to embrace what faith every one of them would , and to follow what heresies they pleased , but how well and safely the end of it declared ; for both his sons were slain by the faction and treachery of the gentiles , gratian by maximus , valentinian junior was strangled in a halter : and yet afterwards the same emperour by edict commanded the houses and places where the maniches met to be confiscate . 't is storied of amaziah , that he had hired a hundred thousand mighty men of valour for a hundred talents of silver , but a man of god came to him to dismisse his army , namely that part of it the children of ephraim , and told him in answer to his carnall objections , that god had power to help and to cast down ; and for his hundred talents , the lord was able to give him much more then this : chron. . , , . so say i , whoever or what numbers soever shall desert the parliaments army and service for their suppressing the sects , and putting in execution their own ordinances , god hath power to help , and cast down , and is able to cause many more then these , to adhere to them ; and no question , besides gods help and blessing which uses to accompany setling true religion , and destroying false ; the hands of the kingdom of scotland would be the more strengthened , the city of london , the ministers , and all who love truth , peace and order , would adhere more firmly , and the parliament would be both stronger , and make themselves famous both at home and abroad to all generations . thirdly , supposing the sectaries to be as potent as is falsely surmised by themselves , yet i humbly conceive it stands not with the honour , power , wisedom nor piety of a parliament , for fear of losing a party , to be afraid of maintaining their own ordinances , and punishing those things that they know are bad ; in such a case fiat justitia , ruet coelum . fourthly , the sons of zeruiah are not now too hard for you , god hath made you stornger then ever , by giving you many victories , battell upon battell , and one strong hold after another ; so that if any will fall off from you for doing your duties , you need not care ; and who knowes but that all these victories are sent to take away all excuse , to answer this objection , and to encourage you to this work ? god inforces upon turning the dayes of fasting into feasts , therefore to love the truth and peace ; and from deliverances to pay our vows , and make good our covenants , as in zech. . . nahum . . . . psal. . , , , . and thus having in some poor measure discharged my conscience towards god , your honours and this kingdom , in the discovery made in this book of many sects and sectaries , i leave the issue and successe to god , humbly taking my leave , as dr holland that learned man and doctor of the chair in oxford was wont to do of his colledge upon going journies , saying , i commend you to the love of god and hatred of popery ; so do i commend both houses of parliament to the love of god and his truth , and the hating of all sects and schismes , earnestly praying to god , that none of the things which you and we have cause to fear may come upon you and the kingdom , but that god would mercyfully pardon that too great suffering , countenancing , spreading and prevailing of errours , heresies and schismes which hath been in this kingdom these four last years , and would fil you with such a love and zeal to his truth and house , that you might throrowly purge out all things that offend , and cause the false prophets and the unclean spirits to passe out of the land , speedily and effectually lay the top-stone upon the building , the foundation whereof you have laid long ago , fully settle this church and the government of it , whereby we may be brought into one , and become terrible as an army with banners , and like a strong and fenced city , both against schismes that may arise from within , and the assaults of enemies without . your honours humble and most devoted servant . thomas edvvards . the preface . in the last week of iune or the first of iuly , ( in one of those two weeks i am certaine ) came forth my answer ( entituled antapologia ) to the apolog●ticall narration : ever since which time i have forborne the presse , out of an expectation of a reply ( which was with great confidence by many of the independent party at severall times given out i should have ) with much patience passing by the many reproachfull scornfull speeches and railings both in publike sermons and printed a pamphlets , and many other waies cast upon me and my antapologie : i was not willing to be provoked , or to trouble my self at the barking of every dogge ( who according to kinde , did bark at the moon ( that 's all ) but not hurt it : could scoffe and jeer at the antapologie , but knew not which way to go about to answer it ) but rather resolved to reserve my time and strength , for some learned and solid reply from the apologists , or any other for them , to which i might have given a rejoynder . but now eighteen moneths being almost expired since the antapologie came abroad into the world ( time sufficient for five such eminent persons , or some other to have retu●ned an answer in , if ever they intended it ) and now being without all hopes of any reply from them ( there being none in the presse , as i can learn ) but rather 't is given out by the apologists themselves , and their neerest friends , that for peace ●ake they forbeare it ( which let them beleeve it that will , i do not ) i shall waite no longer , but am re●olved to appear again in publike against the errours of the time , and to set forth tractares and discourses upon such subjects and points , as i conceive may make most for the glory of god , the peace of this church , and be most seasonable for the present necessity , be opus dies in die suo . i have all this while , out of choise and upon serious deliberation , declined the setting forth any tractate of the controversies of the time ( although i have been by learned men oft call'd upon , yea , earnestly follicited thereunto ) left the apologists , or some other for them , should have taken occasion by answering that , to have some cloak and excuse for not replying to my a●tapologie : but having given all this time , and finding by experience all their great words and threats of an answer ( both in print by b mr iohn goodwin , yea the apologists themselves in the assembly , and many of their c disciples ( to be but meer flourishes and great swelling words of vanity ) on purpose to feed their deluded proselytes for the present ( who called upon them for an answer ) i shall now finde them more work , and adde many other treatises to the former . and however upon the reason before specified , i have been thus long silent , and discontinued the presse ; yet for hereafter , i do give it under my hand , that i will make amends , and redeem the time because the dayes are evill ; promising ( the grace of god enabling me , and sparing me life , health and liberty ) that for this next year , or longer , as the troubles of the church may continue , to be often setting forth one tractate or other . i aime at , and shall endeavour to be like that tree spoken of in the revelation , to yeeld fruit every moneth , and that the leaves of the tree may be for the healing of these nations . now to give some account to the reader , of the nature of this following discourse , and of my scope therein ; this present treatise is not so much against any one errour and sect , as against all i have heard of , a discovery of , and directions against that many headed monstrous hydra of sectarisme sprung up in these times in e●gland : a worke and undertaking , which i well know and expect , will cause me all the hatred , envy and danger , which the cunning , malice , power or blinde zeal of all the sectaries in england can procure . paul speaks in his epistles to the corinthians ( among other troubles ) of his fighting with beasts at ephesus after the manner of m●n , . cor. . . and of a messenger of satan sent to buffet him , . cor. cap. . which were none of the least dangers and sufferings he met withall , as will appear both by looking into the texts themselves , and consulting some learned divines upon those scriptures . now in this present work , and some other following tractates , something like to these i have to conflict with , namely , wilde beasts , grievous wolves , as the scripture calls hereticks and false prophets , mat. . . acts . . and with messengers of satan , false apostles , transforming themselves into the apostles of christ , . cor. . . and 't is never the lesse hazardous nor difficult , that they are wolves in sheeps cloathing , and satan transformed into an angell of light . now for me , a poor weak sinfull man , who have no armes of flesh to back me , none of those relations to the great , noble and mighty of the times , which many have , ( in an age and time when truth is fallen , but heresie and errour prevails in all places , ( cried up as new light , and as new truth , ) ye● , sectarisme is set up in places of honour and profit , and sectaries are delivered , ) to appear in open field against , and to contend with them , is a hard and dangerous service . but i know whom i serve , and he who is with me ▪ is stronger then they who are against me : and in this cause of god , his truth , and all the reformed churches , i fear not what man can do unto me . i well understand that i put my hand into a hornets nest , and shall raise up against me all the spirit of separation , schisme and errour thorowout the kingdome , from the highest seeker to the lowest independent ▪ but i value it not , jacta est alea ( as luther spake upon a like occasion , ) i can comfort my selfe with that of david , psal. . . they compassed not about like bees , they are quenched as the fire of thorns , but in the name of the lord i will cut them off . that god which delivered paul from beasts at ephesus , and from the messenger of satan , that encouraged and enabled little david to fight with a bear and a lion and to pull a lambe out the lions mouth yea to kill both the lion and the bear , hath doth , and will preserve me till i have finished my testimony . only my earnest desire is to the orthodox and pious reader , that for the lord jesus christs sake , and for the love of the spirit , they would strive in prayer to god for me , that i might be delivered from unreasonable euen , and from them that are disobedient ; and that my service and labours in this kinde may be a●cepted of the saints , and that i may be so strengthened with might by his spirit , that in zeal and faithfullnesse , and yet in love , humility and wisedom ▪ i may speak as i ought to speak in all my following treatises . there are two things , amongst many , that i have oft thought upon , and observed both from the scriptures and the works of holy men , both ancient and modern , which in this cause against the sectaries , makes me not to be troubled at reproaches , evill reports , &c. first , that those ministers , who out of zeal to the glory of god , love of his truth , compassion to poor soules , have appeared and acted vigorously , by preaching and writing against the errours of the times and places they lived in , have still met with a great deal of malignity , hatred , reproaches , and speaking all manner of evill against them falsely , as also many misconstructions neglects and unkinde dealings from friends . secondly , notwithstanding all this , they have gon on in their work and way , with constancie and heroick resolution , triumphing and rejoycing in their sufferings , rather rising higher , and growing more bold , then being moved or discouraged : of both these i will give some instances : christ the chief shepherd and bishop of our souls , for speaking against the sectaries of the time , namely the pharisees , sadduces and herodians , was maligned , reproached , laid in wait for ; as also his own disciples , and iohns , were sometimes offended at him , as ioh. . . , . matth. . . , , . and yet christ endured contradiction of sinners , and bare witnesse to the truth . paul for opposing false teachers , and the errors which had crept into the church of corinth and galatia , met with great reproaches , bad reports , not only from the false apostles , but from many of the people , insomuch as they counted paul an enemy , passed judgement on him , and spake contemptibly of him , gal. . . . , cor. . , . cor. . . , , . . and yet paul counted it a small thing to be judged , and could take pleasure in reproaches , in necessities , in persecutions , in distresses for christs sake , . cor. . . and none of these things moved him , so he might finish his course with joy , and the ministry which he received , to testifie the gospell of the grace of god , acts . . d athanasius for opposing the arians and detecting their wayes , was conspired against , accused and pursued with an unsupportable hatred ; and yet he went on with great zeal and courage against the whole world , which at one time was made arian , so that he was resembled by the fathers to an adamant , for his enduring all things . augustine and hierom , both of them , for preaching and writing against hereticks and schismaticks , especially donatifts , suffered many reproaches , and yet rejoyced , counting their sufferings a signe of their greater glory ; as e hierome writing to augustine , congratulates augustine for deserving the hatred of all hereticks , which he rejoyced was common to himself with him , and that which is an argument of the greater glory , all hereticks do detest you , and persecute me also with the like hatred , that whom they cannot kill with swords , they do with wishes . yea f augustine in opposing pelagius errours , ( pelagius being a man of a strict life , and of great authority among all , having many famous men that adhered to him , as caelestius , iulianus episcopus , sulpitius severus , and others , ) was censured by some of his friends , to be too sharpe and bitter , and his writings had many misconstructions : there were epistles by prosper and hilarie sent to austin , wherein they expresse , that many , who were most eminent in the honour of priesthood , did repre●end augustin , as if without a cause he had been too vehement , and had too sharply managed the controversie against pelagius ; yea , among the auditours of augustine , all did not truely and with a●● right hand receive it . luther , as his name was hatefull to the papists , so also to the sectaries of that age : g thomas muncer , one of the first preachers and ring-leaders of the anabaptists ( luther having had some conflicts with him and others of that sect ) put forth some writings , wherein hee did pour out his rage and fury against luther , reproaching luther , that hee wanted a spirit of revelation , and savoured onely carnall outward things ; and after h luther had reproved muncer for his opinion of liberty , and the wayes he went in , he set himself against luther , thundring out railing speeches , saying that luther did equally offend as the pope of rome , yea that luther was worse then the pope himself , promulgating only a carnall gospel : but luther all his dayes , both against the papists and sectaries , swenckfeldians , antinomians , anabaptists , notwithstanding all reproaches , went on with courage and rejoycing . luther esteemed evill speakings as i meat fatning him ; luther was afraid of praises , but rejoyced in reproaches and blasphemies . k t is enough to me , saith luther , if i please christ my lord and his saints : i doe from my heart rejoyce and give thanks to my god , that i am hatefull to the divell and all his scales . i am certain ( saith luther ) that the truth of god cannot be rightly handled and maintained without envie and danger ; and this is the onely signe that it hath been rightly handled , if it offend ; i do daily more and more please my self , and am proud that i see a bad name increases to mee . zuinglius that great leader of the reformation in helvetia , for disputing and writing against the anabaptists , was by balthasar hubmerus pacimontanus ( though zuinglius had done him many offices of love ) loadded with so great reproaches , that hee was necessitated to make an apologie for himselfe to satisfie the brethren . calvin that faithfull pastour of geneva , as his labours and zeal against popish heresies are known to all , so did hee write and act against all other kind of errors that sprung up , against the anabaptists , libertines , servetus , valentinus gentilis , stancanus ; ( as his works witnesse ) and for his pains and zeal , being as a christian hercules overcoming so many monsters , he was called heretick , ambitious , affecting a new papacie , one that studied to heap up riches , a railer ; so that beza writ an apologie for him ; yea , some neighbour pastours reproached him as if he made god the authour of sin , because he excluded nothing from gods externall providence : in a word , being so contagious a defender of sound doctrine , hee was at home and abroad vehemently opposed ; and yet for all these he went on in his work , like another paul and athanasius , with undaunted resolutions and pains : upon occasion he spake thus of his hard usage and ill requitall , certainly , if i had served men , i had made a bad bargain ; but 't is well that i have served him who alwayes payes his servants that which he once promised them : and 't is enough that i live and die to christ , who is gain to his in life and death . * calvin was so hatefull , that some named their dogs calvin ; others changed calvin into cain ; many out of hatred of him , did professe they kept away from the lords supper . now for the first of these , namely reproaches , scorns , &c. i do certainly expect and prepare ; for the disciple is not above his master , nor the servant above his lord : it is enough for the disciple that hee be as his master , matth. . , . and what am i better then those learned fathers , augustine , athanasius , and those first reformers , luther , zuinglius , calvin ? 't is honour enough for me to be somewhat like to them in sufferings . i have had some experience of the sectaries malice , hatred , rage upon my former books and sermons that i have preached , and therefore know that this and other tractates will inflame them . i am in my conscience fully perswaded , that this tractate is at this time both seasonable and usefull in many respects , ' yea necessary , and that for all sorts of men , magistrates , ministers , people , both those that stand , and those that are fallen , yea the very sectaries themselves , and in justice and all reason i might expect thanks and kind acceptance of my labour and pains . but i look that the sectaries of all sorts will storm , and cast out of their mouthes floads of calumnies , reproaches , both against my selfe and book , besides all other wayes doe mee all the mischiefe they can and dare ; yea , i fear , that too many brethren , partly through their relations to many sectaries , and through that lukewarm tempe● ( in reference to errours of minde ) that hath long possessed them , who think every one too-hot that appears against the sects , will not so cordially approve this work . i can truely say , that in my former books and lectures i have been too much deserted , and not received those incouragements which many have done from brethren upon like occasions : but none of these things move mee ; not the losse of good name , not the unkind deserting of friends , neither count i my life dear to my self , so i may finish my course , and the ministry which i have received , to testifie the gospel and the truth of god against the errours of the time . and as i know persecutions and afflictions abide mee in this way ; so it shall be my prayer and endeavour to follow the example of christ , and those servants of his before named ; and had i not long since set down , and counted my cost , giving up my name to god to take care of it , and my face to the smiters , i should not have thus appeared in writing and preaching : but i have , through the grace of christ , learned to account it an honour to suffer for truth , and opposing errours , as well from sectaries , as from popish spirits : in this matter of opposing the present errours , i slight all the power , malice and policie of all the sectaries in the kingdome . and i am resolved , by the grace of christ , which hath enabled mee hitherto , to go on in a constant , cheerfull opposing and writing against the errours . l i have determined with my selfe to fear nothing in this cause , but to contemn all things ; yea , the higher the errours arise , and the more mighty they grow , the more to rise up against them : i value not my name , nor my life , if compared to the truth of christ ; but shall take pleasure in reproaches , necessities , sufferings in such a time as this , when few are valiant for the truth ; no gold shall bribe me , nor preferments take me off ; no lack of supplies shall dishearten me . i shall maintain this warfare at mine owne charges , and this good cause cannot be starved for want of fees . and whatever can happen to mee in this cause , i shall rejoyce , yea and will rejoyce , as remembring those speeches of christ , ioh. . to this end was i born , and for this cause came i into the world , that i should bear witnesse to the truth . matth. . . rejoyce and be exceeding glad , for great is your reward in heaven . a catalogue of many of the errours , blasphemies and practises of the sectaries of the time , with some observations upon them . now for this treatise , i refer it to three heads . . i shall premise some particulars for the better understanding of the subject matter of this book , and right apprehending of what follows . . i shall lay down a catalogue of the errours , blasphemies , practises of the sectaries , together with a particular narration of sundry remarkable passages , and some letters concerning them . . give some observations upon , and draw some corallaries from the whole matter . in the first head i shall do two things ; first , lay down eight particulars for better satisfaction and direction about the errours , &c. secondly , answer two objections which may be as stones to stumble at in the entrance to the matter , and cause a prejudice against the work . the first thing i premise , which i would have the reader to take notice of , is , that this catalogue of errours , blasphemies , practises , letters , is not of old errours , opinions , practises , of a former age , dead and buried many yeers ago , and now revived by this discourse ; but a catalogue of errours now in being , alive in these present times , all of them vented and broached within these four yeers last past , yea most of them within these two last yeers , and lesse . it should have been long enough , before i would have raked up old errours from the dead and hell ; i had much rather send them back from whence they came ; and that is my intent in their discovery . i approve well of that rule of discipline in the french churches , that the ministers should not in sermons meddle with confuting of old errours ; and of that of amesius to ministers , that all errour is not every where to be refuted . for old heresies that are buried ; are not to be digged up that they may be refuted ; but seeing these walk up and down in city and country , i may give warning of them . secondly , this following discovery is not only of present errours , which maybe now in 〈…〉 ●hen i would not have troubled the 〈…〉 in this kingdom , as will appear more fully in this discourse . thirdly , more specially in these places of england , as london and the counties adjacent , in the parliaments quarters , in their armies and garrison towns not maintained by persons at oxford , &c. for then it had not been so much to us : but as the prophet ezekiel speaks of ierusalem , exik . . , , , in thee , in thee , in thee ( oft repeated ) are such and such things ; so in thee london , in the associated counties , in the armies , and that after a solemn covenant to extirpate he●esies and schisms , are found such and such errours blasphemous opinions , strange practises ; so that the reader must remember , that all the following errours , blasphemies , practises , letters , be of persons in this time , and in this kingdom , 〈…〉 who live and dwell among us . secondly , i do not undertake nor professe in this catalogue and discovery , to give a full catalogue and perfect enumeration of all the erroneous opinions , blasphemies and practises of the sectaries within these four last yeers , so as no more can be added to them ; i make no doubt , but many a reader may say , this catalogue wants such an opinion that he knows of , and such an opinion , but only speaks of many of them , and of some principall ; and therefore in the title of this discourse , i call it a catalogue of many errours , ( i do not say of all : ) it cannot rationally be imagined , that one man residing constantly in one place , not travelling to the armies , nor up and down from country to country , having his hands full of preaching , and writing controversies , can come to the knowledge of all errours broached in all places , or can have time to read over exactly all the sectaries , to extr●ct all their opinions : it may rather be thus argued , what a world of strange errours , &c. are there held in all parts of this kingdom , when one man hears of so much ▪ if all the ministers in the kingdom would bring in what they know , or but a considerable number of ministers , as a committee from severall parts of the kingdom , would joyn together to read all the books to take notes of the sermons in publike , to have some observe and watch meetings in private , and draw into one all the wayes of the sectaries , within these four last yeers , a great volume would not contain the errours , prodigious : opinions , and strange practises of these times ▪ ther 's no question but there are many monsters conceived by some in this intermysticall season , which are not yet brought forth , and others that are brought forth , yet like to bastard or mishapen children , are concealed from the publike view , made known only to a very few , being the hidden works of darknesse , the time not being yet come to publish them openly : waighting only for the mid-wife and nursing mother of a toleration , to bring them fourth and nourish them : but though this be not a perfect catalogue , yet i beleeve it will be found the fullest that hath yet been made of these times , and give a further discovery then yet we have had . i have seen severall books written within these four last yeers and lesse , that give us a particular relation of some errours and blasphemous opinions , as learned a master gat●kers , but that 's only of the antinomian errours ; b master b●ily , one of the learned and reverend commissioners of the church of scotland , but that is only of the independents , brownists and chiliasts . c master pagets , who relates more then any late authors , but many of them are of the old anabaptists , and old sectaries of other countries rather then of the new , and of this kingdom . d mr. well , but his relation is cheifly of the familists and antinomians in new-england many yeers ago . but this work as it speaks only of the errours and opinions in present being and in england , so it discovers more then any one book hath , of the errours held and maintained among us ; yea then all the tractates extant have discovered , many great errours being in this present treatise laid down , which are not mentioned at all , neither by the forenamed authors , nor any other , so that this present discourse will be a further improvement of our knowledge of the errours and wayes of the sectaries of our times . thirdly , my intent in this work , is not to make a formall confutation of these errours and opinions ; i designed not that when i first resolved the thing ( that would be a long and great work , and not make good my present ends , ) i hope the naming of them will be a sufficient confutation , especially with the animadversions , observations , and corallaries hereunto adjoyned : i have been a faithfull gatherer together and storer up , remembrancer and treasurer of these errours and practices for the good of the publike , that i might in a fit season bring out of my treasure these things , and discover these monsters and rocks , that so they might be of some use to godly people , to make them afraid of forsaking the publike assemblies , and joyning to separated churches where these monsters daily breed . fourthly , i here give the reader a synopsis of sectarisme , and have drawn as is were into one table , and do present at one view , the errours and strange opinions scattered up and down , and vented in many books , manuscripts , sermons , conferences , &c. and have disposed them under certain heads , and put them into their proper places , in a methodicall way for memories sake , that the reader may the more easily find them . the reader cannot imagine i found them thus methodized and laid together , but confused and divided , lying far asunder , one or two in one book , some in another ; others in this manuscript , others in that ; this errour vented at such a private meeting , that errour in such a sermon , this opinion at such a conference : for many of these opinions , the very same opinions and errours are maintained and held over and over in severall books and manuscripts , so that to have given them the reader as i found them , would have been to have brought the reader into a wildernesse , and to have presented to publick view a rude and undigested chaos , with an heap of tautologies , all which are carefully declined in this following discourse , by joyning in one things divided and scattered ; by relating but once one and the same errour and practice , and by forbearing to lead the reader thorow woods , and over the mountains ; and in stead of that , carrying him directly and presently to the bird in the nest . fifthly , i lay down the opinions and errours in terminis , and in their owne words and phrases syllabically , as neer as possible can be , or i can remember them ; and that as themselves have expressed them in books , manuscripts , sermons , conferences , which either are extant of their own setting forth , or set forth by other learned godly men in print , or as i have received them from credible sufficient witnesses . i doe not in this catalogue and discovery alter the phrases and words of the sectaries , giving you their sense in other expressions ; nor set down a relation of their opinions by consequences and deductions , imputing that to them which by consequences may be drawn ( for i hold that an unjust way of dealing with men , though in errours ) ; a yea , many men may hold opinions , who yet see not the consequences , nay abhorre those consequences which yet follow upon such premisses ; and therefore though in a way of argument they may be pressed upon them to draw them off their errours , yet they may not be charged upon them : and therefore though in the setting down of the errours and the things thereto annexed , as letters , some phrases and words may not be so proper , nor so good english ; yet the reader must not be offended , because i would relate things in their own words to take away all cavill . sixthly , for the proof and manifestation of the truth and reality of the errours , blasphemies and practices contained in this present tractate , that the reader may not rest upon my bare assertion and relation of them , but may have other grounds of satisfaction for their belief , and so be more affected with them , i propound these following particulars as grounds of proof . . that for divers of the opinions , errours and practices related , there is such a notoriety of them , being so notoriously known to thousands , and maintained by thousands , every day and every place witnessing the truth of them ; that to quote books written and sermons preached for them , or persons holding them , is to lose time ; and when all is alledged that can be , 't is far beneath the evidences that the mentioning of the things themselves give . . many errours and blasphemies contained in this following catalogue have been complained of , and particulars given in by sufficient persons to the parliament , committees of parliament , assembly of divines , and others in authority , of which errours i have had either perfect copies given me from ministers both of the assembly and city , or relations from their mouths who have known particularly the story and truth of them , which copies i keep by mee to produce if need be , and out of which ( amongst many other papers and books ) i made up this catalogue . . some of the errours , blasphemies and practices are proved and made manifest in the narration of the stories and letters following the catalogue : wherein the naming of some persons , places , occasions of writing , the persons writ unto , their writing in a publick way , and not in a private manner , the willingnesse to have them published , with many other concurrent circumstances , do declare they are not feigned nor counterfeited , but reall and certain . . of some of these errours and practices here related , i my self , and other persons of good note and quality , have at the same time together been ear-witnesses and eye-witnesses upon the places . . other of these errours and opinions are in divers printed books , either of the sectaries themselves , or of persons of note and worth for learning and piety , who either after conferences with them , or hearing them preach , upon certain knowledge have printed and attested them to the world ; diverse of which printed books , especially those made by the sectaries , i quote upon the margent by the errours . . for any of the errours , blasphemies put in this following catalogue , which have come to my knowledge by none of the former five wayes above specified ( which yet are not many ) i have had the relation of them from godly ministers , and understanding conscientious christians , with many circumstances of names , places , conditions , time , and confident asseverations of the certainty of them , the relations coming to me by providence , and occasionally spoken of in the hearing of others as well as my selfe , and so delivered as there can be no reason in the world to think they should be false , but much every way to beleeve them true . and that the reader may the more build upon the truth of all things delivered in this book ; besides that account i have given him already in these six particulars , i shall acquaint the reader with the course and way i have taken to come to the truth of things , and not to go upon hearsay . when any things of this nature have been related to me , though by persons of worth and conscience , i have used to enquire of them , whether they were ear-witnesses or no ; if not ear-witnesses , who they had the reports from , and how they came to know them , and where , and by whom , and upon what occasion these points were delivered ? if they said they were ear and eye witnesses , yet if there were but one single witnesse , i have used to question , who else was present ? and to enquire after circumstances and occasions , and accordingly have gone to other persons named , from one to another , to find out the bottome and truth both of opinions held , and practises used ; where i could with wisdome and probability go to finde out and know the truth , i have done it myself ; and where my appearing might hinder the discovery , and cause persons to be shie and more reserved , i have set others to enquire , and directed them the way , and entreated them to aske such and such questions , and after particular enquiry , according to concurrence of circumstances and witnesses , i have entertained such things for truth , or else received them as false , or suspended them as doubtfull , not to be asserted : and that i might be the more faithfull relator of the opinions and wayes of the sectaries of this time , and know when and where to put more or lesse weight or credit upon informations and relations , i have a long time used to write down daily the same day , yea the same hour ( when i could get opportunty of privacie ) the occurrences both of opinions and practises that concern our sectaries , and that in such manner and way , that looking upon my papers a yeer after , i can judge of what authority the relations are : and accordingly i have forborn to put into this catalogue of errours , some strange opinions i have heard of from good hands ( though they may be true ) because i have not had the opportunity to meet with , and further to enquire of some persons concerning their truth ; and because some whom i have enquired of , could give me no further satisfaction . i have taken this way , to satisfie the reader , rather then all along in the severall errours , blasphemies and practises to lay down the particular proofs ; which i think the better way upon these following reasons . . because in many of the errours , even contained under one and the same head , the proofs to be given of the truth of the thing doth arise many wayes , from printed books , from manuscripts , from sermons , from preaching in private houses , from articles given in by witnesses , and from others relations ; now to quote all these , with all particular circumstances of time , place , &c. whereby to make out a full proof , would be an endlesse work , and be so long and tedious , that it would crosse one of my ends in this work , which is to have this discourse but short , a manuall that might be for every ones reading . . because some of these errours and opinions can be proved only from manuscripts , and relations of honest persons , who were ear witnesses , which manuscripts are but in the hands of a few , unknown to most of the readers ; and to make references to them , by quoting them in the margent , the reader were never the neerer , and then every man is not willing to be named in print , neither may i lawfully do it without their knowledge and leave ; besides , that were the way for the future , to deprive my self of the knowledge of many opinions and practises , if i should print the names of every one that hath imparted intelligence to me . . in this catalogue of errours , under one and the same errour ( which for number i make but one , that i might not seem needlesly to multiply errours , and that i might contract things ) yet under that one errour , teere are more branches , it may be two or three ; now though one part or branch of such an errour as the former part is expresly set down in books that are in many hands , yet other branches are not , but only have been expressed by word of mouth : now in such a case to quote books , speaking but to one part and not to the whole , might question my faithfulnesse in all other particulars : unto these i could adde more , but these may suffice . . yet further to satisfie the reader of the truth of things contained in this present treatise , and to stop the mouths of sectaries , who will be ready to put off all , by giving out , that this book is full of lies and fables , i do here offer ( upon condition that some exemplary punishment may passe upon some of the prime seducers and heads of these sects , and some effectuall course taken for the future , to remedy and suppresse these errours ) to make a legall proof by witnesses , and other concurrent circumstances of the most notorious and grossest matters ( which may of all others seem most questionable ) whether errours , blasphemies or practices set down in this following catalogue . seventhly , i premise this for the christian reader to remember , and for preventing mistakes in this work , that though i set down and joyn together all the following opinions in one catalogue , because they all agree in uno tertio in that common notion of errour , yea all agree in independency , and in forsaking the communion of the reformed churches : yet i am far from thinking them all alike . a scholar that makes a catalogue of books , writes down decimo sextos as well as folios in it , because they be all books , and yet puts a great deal of difference between the one and the other ; so do i notwithstanding i put them together . all the errours reckoned up are not of the first magnitude , nor in the highest form ; some are fundamentall errours , overthrowing the foundation directly , many by consequence and deduction ; others are superstructures , building upon the foundation hay , straw and stubble : i put a wide difference between a simple pure independent , yea a simple anabaptist , who only holds that opinion of denying poedobaptisme , and between an arian , antitrinitarian , antiscripturist , perfectist : again , i put a difference between erroneous persons that erre out of ignorance , weaknesse , and are seduced , following those opinions in simplicity of heart ( as some people did absolom ) and are peaceable keeping their opinions also to themselves and such persons as are wilful seducers , the heads and leaders of faction , who make it their work to disturb the peace of the church , and to subvert souls . in all this discourse i desire to think of iude . . and of some have compassion , making a difference ; and others save with fear , pulling them , &c. eighthly , i desire to forewarn the christian reader , and do earnestly beseech him for his own good , that he be not offended , nor hindred from beleeving the truth , and laying to heart the particulars laid down in this ensuing treatise , no not by all the clamours , reproaches that may be cast upon my book and person : it cannot be expected , but that satan and the sectaries will make it their work , by all wayes possible to blast this book , to keep from reading and beleeving it , as they used all wayes to reproach my last book , and to keep christians all they could from reading it : blind and erroneous zeal is violent and what it wants in arguments , it will make up in clamours , lyes , and speaking all manner of evil falsly of them that discover & lay it open , as a luther speaks ; the world cannot bear that the things of it should be condemned , therefore from every part hatreds , treacheries , calumnies , evill speakings are heaped to oppresse that doctrine , and those teachers who oppose it : and therefore let them speak evill as long as they will , and give out 't is a railing lying peece ; yet let me speak to the reader , as the apostle doth , thes. . , . that no man should be moved by these afflictions , for we told you before , that we should suffer tribulation , even as it s come to passe , and ye know : so now i tell you before , that when you hear of all kind of reproaches , ye may not be offended , iohn . . now the second particular under this first generall head , is to remove two stumbling blocks out of the way , to give an answer to two objections that may be made against this present work . . object . it may be some will object and say ; it is not seasonable nor convenient to discover our nakednesse and weaknesse so far to the common enemy , it were better concealed , the enemy will make an advantage of it : tell it not in gath , publish it not in the streets of askelon ; lest the daughters of the philistines rejoyce , lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph . . sam. . . ans. the prevailing of heresies and sects among us , is not now to be discovered and published to the world : it hath not been all this time kept within our own walls , and known only to our selves , but hath been a long time known abroad , and at home , and hath been declared by divers others , both in writing and preaching before now : so that i shall not divulge any secret to the common enemy : all that i do is but to draw them into one , that we may see them as it were at once : our errours and schisms are spoken of far and near by enemies and friends . how many sermons have been preached before the honourable houses of parliament , and in other publike places speaking of the errours of the time , which have been also printed long since by command of authority , and exposed to the view of all ? many learned men have given a catalogue of severall errours , as mr. gataker of many antinomian errours , mr baily one of the commissioners of scotland of other errours , and dr featly , mr paget , with some others : in books upon all occasions , 't is confessed by men of t severall judgemens , and denied by none , that we have many great errours amongst us : many errours have been complained of to the houses of parliament , committees , assembly , and examined , spoken of in the presence of many ; besides that some errours are vented , even of the grossest sort in print , as in pilgrimage of saints , bloudy tenet , mortality of the soul , man of sinne discovered , cum multis aliis : yea , some of the sectaries have in their writings published and acknowledged , there are many sorts of opinions among us , hence taking occasion to write for a toleration of all , as anabaptists , antinomians , &c. and the great historian and chronicler of the sectaries ( the moderate intelligencer , num. . who writes their lives and deaths , and trumpets forth their victories and praises so immoderatly as if they did all : and hath published to the world , some weeks ago , that there are twenty severall opinions in the army ; and hath pleaded more then once for liberty of conscience for them all ; so that i by writing in this kind of the errours of the time , cannot be guilty of discovering our nakednesse , the enemy having known so much before . but why stand i to prove that our heresies and schisms are openly known in england , when as their sound is gone into all lands , into holland , zealand , france , yea to new-england ? the walachrian classis , in their letter to the london synod complain much of heresies , schisms , errours , confusions in religion spreading in the city , which by such an expresse , holy and sacred oath is bound to god to cast out all errours , heresies , scisms out of the house of god. c many letters have been written over into enland out of holland , from ministers and professours of schools ( men zealously affected to the cause of the parliament ) complaining of the errours , sects and schisms amongst us , which have been communicated to some prime members of the assembly and others . new-england speaks much of the heresies , errours , and all sorts of sects amongst us , c wondring that the assembly suffers them , and that they do not stirre up the parliament to supresse them . d mr shepards letter written from thence , shewes their knowledg of the heresies , errours and sects amongst us , so that our errours and schismes so publikely known to the world , cannot be concealed from oxford . seeing then there are so many errours and monsters of opinions spoken of in all places , i cannot be taxed for the discovery of that which was before concealed , but in this work am only a gatherer together of those errours that were scattered , which by gods blessing may be a meanes to keep many from falling into schisme seeing such monsters in that way , and to cause many to returne , when they finde that they never dreamt of nor intended . secondly supposing our errours to be known , which is fully proved in any first answer , i then secondly say , 't is so farre from being unseasonable and inconvenient , that 't is most necessary , that some ministers , who are friends to the reformation , and zealots for the parliament , should lay them open to the full , by testifying against them and disclaiming them , that so our enemies may not say , wee favour and countenance them ; and one of my great ends in this tractate , is to take away occasion from the common enemy to blaspheme the reformation , and speak ill of the parliament , by our not owning them , but speaking as much against heresie , schisme and all errours as any of them can . thirdly , i answer , we should be so farre from being afraid to give the common enemy advantage , by speaking against heresies and errours , that on the contrary i may say , we have no such enemies , as those persons , that broach and spread their heresies and damnable opinions : these are our enemies which wee have cause to fear more then all the cavaliers , these are the achans , the accursed persons , and things which are most likely to undo us ; and if ever the parliament and their party be ruined ( which god prevent ) it will not be so much by the cavaliers , they could not have done it , but the heresies , blasphemies and schimes of some among our selves will cause it ; and therefore the finding of these out , and labouring to have these removed , is a work of great importance to the saving of the kingdom , and of great prejudice to the common enemy , whose hopes and confidence are much more placed in our heresies , prodigious opinions and schismes , then in their own strength . . ob. as this book will give occasion to open the mouthes of enemies , so it may cause distractions and divisions among our selves , weaken the hands of many who are cordiall to the parliament , apprehending themselves to be written against ; besides this may offend many good persons that are not sectaries , especially that independents should be put into this catalogue , and ranked with all sorts of hereticks and schismaticks . . i answer to this , as luther did in an epistle of his to spalatinus upon a like occasion ; spalatinus would not have had luther at such a time to have writ against the papists , for feare of disturbing the publike peace : to whom luther thus replies , that 's excellent indeed , that thou thinkest it not fit to have the publike peace disturbed , and yet judgest it fit to have the externall peace of god disquieted ; not so , o spalatine . shall the grievous wolves come freely to the flock , not sparing them ; and if the doggs barke to give warning of them , shall they be said to disturbe the peace , and cause distractions ? brethren , things are come to a good passe , that hereticks and sectaries must do what they please , and if any course be taken by preaching , writing , petitioning , to remedy it , 't is given out by sectaries , 't is a plot to make division , discourage the army , disturbe the peace . i say no more , if this be to preserve union and peace , and to be cordiall to the parliament , to let hereticks and sectaries do what they list , preach , writ , spread their errours , destroy many souls , and no man must say , what do they ? cursed be that union , peace and affection to the parliament . c 't is a golden saying of luther , and worthy to bee thought of in these times ; cursed be that charity which is kept with the losse of the doctrine of faith , to which all things ought to give place , charity , an apostle , an angell from heaven , d yea , and i will add , parliaments . answ. . if in such a time as this , and such a case , when by many persons all the things of god are laid waste and made null , church , minister , sacraments , scriptures , and what not ? men will be offended for speaking , let them , 't is better they should be offended , then the glory of christ should suffer ; 't is an offence taken , and not given ; christ cared not in that case that the pharisees were offended , mat. . . . . i wonder they are not offended at the heresies and errours daily broached , and yet should be offended at the discovering and speaking against them . i have more cause to be offended at this objection of theirs , and their lukewarmenesse : wo be unto them that broach these errours , and to those that countenance them , for every plant which my heavenly father hath not planted , shall be rooted up . answ. . i name not these things to provoke and exasperate any , especially none of those who in simplicity of heart , and under pretences of greater holinesse and new light , are taken in these wayes ; ( for as i have writ before , so i say again , i put a great difference between independency strictly and properly so cal'd , and many other sectaries , and between those who are turbulent sectaries , and meerly seduced ) but i write this tractate to preserve many tender consciences from falling , by giving warning to them beforehand , as christ did in mat. . . . . . that they may fear , and tremble , and look to themselves , as also that i might brand errours and false doctrine too well thought of , and too kindly delt with in these times . ans. . i may justifie the ranking and joyning of independents with other sectaries , not only because all the sectaries though never so vild , are independents , agreeing in that opinion of independencie ; as also all the sectaries , the worst of them ( even those who deny the scriptures , the divinity of christ , &c. ) do separate from the church of england , refusing communion with her in the sacraments and other ordinances as the independents do , but because the independents do joyn themselves with the other sectaries adhering to them , and to this day have never stood as a divided party from them , but upon all occasions have and do make one common body with them , to hold together against the orthodox and presbyterians : i am able to give many instances of many of the independents , both ministers and people , pleading for the anabaptists , antinomians and other sectaries , that they might be tolerated as well as themselves ; and upon all occasions of complaints against severall sects , siding with them to bring them off ; yea , their joyning together in choise of burgesses for parliament , and in divers other matters against the presbyterians ; as also in closing together in church-fellowship , independent churches admitting of and continuing anabaptists , antinomians to be members ; besides not censuring vild sectaries ( as seekers ) who have fallen from their churches : so that i do the independents no wrong to put them in the same catalogue with other sectaries , themselves having in so many particulars gone hand in hand with them : but that which is the fullest demonstration of all other , is this , the sectaries being now hot upon the getting of a toleration , there were some meetings lately in the city , wherein some persons of the severall sects , some seekers , some anabaptists , some antinomians , some brownists , some independents met ; some presbyterians also met with them , upon their desire the better to understand what they would have ; the intent of which meeting was , to consider how all these might have the liberty to their way and practice in this kingdom , and to perswade the presbyterians to be willing to it , and to helpe to effect it for them : now the result of these meetings was , that all these severall sects were agreed and held together for pretended liberty of conscience , the independents as well as the others holding together with the rest of the sects , as buckle and thong ; some professing at one of the meetings , it was the sin of this kingdom that the jewes were not allowed the open profession and exercise of their religion amongst us ; only the presbyterians dissented and opposed it . and much about the same time that this meeting was in london , in another place some of the best of the independents , were not ashamed to move for a toleration , not only for themselves , but all other of the sects that agreed in fundamentals against popery . the second part of this tractate , and indeed the principall ( to the better understanding whereof the first part tended , and upon which also the third and last is grounded ) sets down the catalogue it self , containing many errours , blasphemies and practises of the sectaries of this time , together with a narrative of some remarkable passages and stories ; as also , some letters , and an extract of letters concerning the present sects . now the errours , heresies , blasphemies in this catalogue particularized , may be referred to sixteen heads or sorts of sectaries , as namely , . independents . . brownists . . chiliasts , or millenaries . . antinomians . . anabaptists . . manifestarians or arminians . . libertines . . familists . . enthusiasts . . seekers and waiters . . perfectists . . socinians . . arians . . antitrinitarians . . antiscripturists . . scepticks and questionists , who question every thing in matters of religion ; namely , all the articles of faith , and first principles of christian religion , holding nothing positively nor certainly , saving the doctrine of pretended liberty of conscience for all , and liberty of prophesying . and in one or other of these sixteen formes , may all the errours and blasphemies reckoned up in the following catalogue be well placed , and unto one of these heads easily reduced ; yea , for many of these errours , the very same are held not only by one sort of the forenamed sects , but by divers of them . and i desire to commend to the readers serious and sad consideration , three particulars concerning the errours and sects of this time ; and the rather , because they were not so common to the sects in the ages before , at least not the two first . . that among all these sorts of sects and sectaries , there are hardly now to be found in england ( for to this kingdom , and to these four last years do i confine my self all along in this discourse ) any sect that 's simple and pure , and not mixt and compounded , that is , any sect among them all ) which holds only the opinions and principles of its own way , without enterfering and mingling with the errours of other sects ; as for example , where can a man finde a church of simple anabaptists , or simple antinomians , or simple pure independents , each of them keeping to their own principles , as anabaptists to anabaptisme , independents to independencie , and holding no other ? but rather do we not see by experience , that both the severall kinds of sects , and most persons of each kinde , are compounded of many , yea , some of all : one and the same society of persons in our times , being both anabaptisticall , antinomian , manifestarian , libertine , socinian , millenary , independent , enthusiasticall ? yea , among the independents ( who are of all the rest accounted best ) where can any man shew me an independent church strictly so called , or a man of them hardly , who symbolizes not with the other sects , holding beside independency , neither the opinions of the chiliasts , nor of the libertines , nor other strange opinions ! the army that is so much spoken of upon all occasions in the news books , pulpits , conferences , to be independent ( though i conceive upon good information , that upon a true muster of the whole , commanders and common souldiers , there would not be found above one in ●ix of that way ) yet of that army , cal'd by the sectaries , independent , and of that part of it which truly is so , i do not think there are . pure independents , but higher flown , more seraphicall ( as a chaplain , who knows well the state of that army , expressed it ) made up and compounded of anabaptisme , antinomianisme , enthusiasme , arminianisme , familisme , all these errours and more too sometimes meeting in the same persons , strange monsters , having their heads of enthusiasme , their bodies of antinomianisme , their thighs of familisme , their leggs and feet of anabaptisme , their hands of arminianisme , and libertinisme as the great vein going thorow the whole ; in one word , the great religion of that sort of men in the army , is liberty of conscience , and liberty of preaching . but heretofore , both in times more ancient and latter , and in other countries , severall sects kept themselves more to their own proper tenets , without that generall con●usion of each running into all , as the arians , novatians and others , in the first six hundred years , and the antinomians in luthers time . secondly , that all these sorts of sects , how different soever , yea and contrary to one another in many principles and opinions , yet all agree in these times in separating from our church , refusing comunion in our publike assemblies , and in disallowing the authoritative power of classes and synods ; all the sects , yea the worst of them , as the antiscripturists , arians , antitrinitarians , perfectists , being independents and separatists ( though all independents and separatists be not arians , antinomians , &c. ) which deserves the more to be thought on , because in the primitive times , some heriticks and sectaries would have been glad of communion in warship with the orthodox ; ( a arius desired to be received into the church of alexandria again , and made such friends to constantine , that upon his pretending repentance , he commanded alexander the bishop of alexandria , to give him the hand of fellowship and to admit him ) as also they approved of the power of synods and councels , comming unto them . the arians , donatists and other sectaries held many councels , as that of tyrus , antiochia , the first councel of carthage in constantines dayes ; of these and many more we read of in ecclesiasticall histories . i never read of any independent minister in all the primitive churches ( no not amongst the sectaries ) for the first six hundred years , save only in the dayes of aurelius bishop of carthage , who living in the fift century , in an african synod and councel held at carthage declares ; b there are many who conspiring with their own proper people who they do deceive , scratching their itching eares , and with fair speeches seducing , men of a loose life , or rather puffed up , separating themselves from this society , who think they must attend to their own proper people , and being often called to the councel , refuse to come along , left their absurdities and novelties should be discovered and made manifest ; against whom aurelius moved , that they might be deprived of all authority over their proper people , as rebellious and disorderly , which was consented to and voted by the whole synod , saying placet , placet . thirdly , that for the errours and opinions laid down in this catalogue , some are contrary and contradictory to others of them , so that many of these errours fight among themselves ; this indeed is one great difference between truth and errour , that truth though it be contrary to errour , yet one truth is never contrary to another , truth is one and uniforme ; but many errours are not only contrary to truth , but to errours also ; yea some of these errours are most contrary to what ever could have been expected ; many of the persons who hold these opinions being fallen into some of the errours of popery , arminianism , libertinisme and those of the grossest sort , ( as the reader in the errours hereafter named may more easily perceive ) which they spoke so much against heretofore , and for fear of which comming in upon us , they first began to forsake this church , so that they have wheeled & wheeled about so long on the right hand , that they are perfectly come round to the left . the catalogue of the errours , heresies , blasphemies , is as follows . . that the scriptures cannot be said to be the word of god ; there is no word but christ , the scripures are a dead letter , and no more to be credited then the writtings of men , not divine , but humane invention . . that the scripture , whether a true manuscript or no , whether hebrew , greek or english , is but humane , and so not able to discover a divine god. then where is your command to make that your rule or discipline , that cannot reveal you god , nor give you power to walke with god ? so that christ letting out himself as he is in himself , ought to be a christians rule in obedience to himself . . that the scriptures are unsufficient and uncertain , there is no certainty to build any d●ctrine upon them , they are not an infallible foundation of faith . . as the condition of adam , noah , abraham , moses , &c. was , that they did walke with god by the teaching of god , so is ours : that is not to limit christ to adam , noah , abraham , moses , david , iohn and the disciples . as they were not to tye god to any things before them recorded , but each of them had a new record ; so are not we to limit god in the generall records of those paths , but wait upon him in the enlargement of the gospell what he will record you ; and far be it from me to conclude either in doctrine or practise ; that half of his glory is revealed as yet : as that i should enclose christ in such a small compasse as we have recorded : though i rejoyce to understand it in the searching thereof , yet pressing toward the marke for the price of the high calling of god , waiting what he will record in my heart , and in that measure worship him in spirit and truth from the teaching of the spirit . . that the holy writings and sayings of moses and the prophets , of christ and his apostles , and the proper names , persons and things contained therein are allegories , and these allegories are the mystery and spirituall meaning of them . . that the penmen of scripture , every one of them , writ as themselves conceived , they were the actions of their own spirit ; and for what is said they were moved by the holy ghost , that was no other spirit then that which moved them to writ and speak other things , for in him we live and move and have our being . . that the scriptures of the old testament , do not concerne nor binde christians now under the new testament : so that when places of scripture are brought out of the old testament to prove points , many sectaries make slight of them , and say , give us a text out of the new , we are ignorant of the old ; and hereupon some of them do not binde the old testament with the new , nor read it . . that right reason is the rule of faith , and that we are to beleeve the scriptures , and the doctrine of the trinity , incarnation , resurrection , so far as we see them agreeable to reason , and no farther . . that the new testament , nor no place of scripture in it , binds any further then the spirit for present reveales to us that such a place is the word of god. . to read scripture in english to a mixt congregation without present expounding it , is dangerous , and worse then to read it in latine ; for in latine , as it doth no good , so it doth no harme . . that god hath a hand in , and is the author of the sinfullnesse of his people ; that he is the authour not of those actions alone , in and with which sin is , but of the very pravity , ataxy , anomy , irregularity and sinfullnesse it self which is in them . . that all lyes come forth out of the mouth of god. . b 't is the will and command of god , that since the coming of his son the lord jesus , a permission of the most paganish , jewish , turkish , or antichristian consciences and worship be granted to all men in all nations and countries : and they are only to be fought against with the sword of gods spirit , the word of god ; and for the parliament to use any civill coercive meanes to compell men of different judgment , is one of the greatest sins that can be named , 't is committing a greater rape , then if they had forced or ravished the bodies of all the women in the world . d yea , if it be mens consciences , the magistrate may not punish for blasphemies , nor for denying the scriptures , nor for denying there is a god. . that no man was cast into hell for any sin , but only because god would have it so . . that a man had life before god breathed into him , and that which god breathed into him was part of the divine essence , and shall returne unto god again . . that we should think of our selves no better then was meet , for god loves the creatures that creep upon the ground as well as the best saints ; and there is no distance between the flesh of a man , and the flesh of a toad . . that the prince of the ayr that rules in the children of disobedience is god ; and that there is no other spirit but one , which spirit is god. . that god hath not decreed all the actions of men , because men doing what god decreed , do not ●in . . that god was never angry nor displeased with man ; for if he were ever displeased and pleased again , then there is a changeablenesse in god. . that god loved not one man more then another before the world , neither is there an absolute particular election , but only generall and conditionall upon perseverance ; and the scripture no where speaks of reprobates or reprobation . . that the soul dies with the body , and all things shall have an end , but god only shall remain for ever . . every creature in the first creation was god , and every creature is god , every creature that hath life and breath being an efflux from god , and shall returne into god again , be swallowed up in him as a drop is in the ocean . . that to a saving knowledge of god , it sufficeth not to know him in the book of nature ; nor secondly as revealed in the holy scriptures ; but that we must know him as abstract from his mercies and all his attributes . . that in the unity of the god-head there is not a trinity of persons , but the doctrine of the trinity beleeved and professed in the church of god , is a popish tradition and a doctrine of rome . . there are not three distinct persons in the divine essence , but only three offices ; the father , son and holy ghost are not three persons , but offices . . that there is but one person in the divine nature . . that jesus christ is not very god , not god essentially , but nominally , not the eternall son of god by eternall generation , no otherwise may he be called the son of god but as he was man. . that christs humane nature is defiled with originall sin as well as ours , christ had from the birth to his death the same originall corruption as ours , he took our sin into his nature as well as our flesh upon him : christ is not of a holier nature then we ; but in this appeares gods love to us , that he will take one of us in the same conditition , to convince us of what he is to us , and hath made us to be in him : me thinks the beholding of christ to be holy in the flesh is a dishonour to god , in that we should conceive holinesse out of god , and again a discomfort to the saints , that he should be of a more holy nature then they , as being no ground for them to come neer with boldnesse to god. . that we did look for great matters from one crucified at ierusalem hundred yeares ago , but that does us no good , it must be a christ formed in us , the deity united to our humanity , christ came into the world to live thirty two years , and to do nothing else that he knew , and blessed god he never trusted in a crusified christ. . christ was true man when he created us : yea from eternity , and though he had not flesh , yet was he very man without flesh . . that christ died for all men alike , for the reprobate as well as for the elect , and that not only sufficiently , but effectually , for iudas as well as peter , for the damned in hell as well as the saints in heaven . . that by christs death , all the sins of all the men in the world , turks , pagans , as well as christians committed against the morall law and first covenant , are actually pardoned and forgiven , and this is the everlasting gospel . . that christ did only satisfie for the sins against the first covenant , but not for the sins against the second covenant , as unbelief , he died not for the unbelief of any . . christ died only for sins past , i. e. before the gospel is revealed to the sinner , and the sins of men committed after conversion christ died not for , but they are pardoned by his being a continuall sacrifice . . every man satisfies for himselfe for the sins against the second covenant , namely unbelief : because he that beleeves not , the wrath of god abides upon him ; so that for a years unbelief a man beares a years wrath , and this is all the satisfaction god requires . . that no man shall perish or go to hell for any sin but unbeleef only . . that the heathen who never heard of christ by the word , have the gospel ; for every creature , as the sun , moon and stars preach the gospel to men , and in them is revealed the knowledge of christ crucified , and sin pardoned , if they had eyes to see it . . those heathen that perish , do perish only for not beleeving according to the gospel they enjoy . a . christ did not by his death purchase life and salvation for all , no nor for the elect ▪ for it was not the end of god in the coming of christ to purchase love and life ; but christ himself was purchased by love , that hee might make out love and purchase us to love . b . christ jesus came into the world to witnesse and declare the love of god to us , not to procure it for us , or to satisfie god ( as some say , ) christ was a most glorious publisher of the gospel , he was sent to preach the gospel , to heal the broken hearted , to preach deliverance to the captives : in all that christ saith to be the end of his coming is not a word mentioned of any thing done by him in way of satisfying god. christs coming was more like a conquerour to destroy the enemy in our nature , and so to convince us of the love of god to us by destroying in our nature that which we thought stood between god and us . l . that the unction which the saints are said to receive from the holy one , iohn . . is one with the christ hood of christ. . that christ was a legall preacher , for till after his ascension the gospel was not preached ; christ lived in a dark time and so he preached the law , but afterwards then the gospel came to be preached . . that christ shall come and live again upon the earth , and for a thousand years reign visibly as an earthly monarch over all the world , in outward glory and pomp , putting down all monarchy and empires . . that when christ in his own person hath subdued the disobedient nations , then the church of the jews and gentiles shall live without any disturbance , from within or without it : all christians shall live without sin , without the word , sacraments , or any ordinance , they shall passe those thousand yeers in worldly delights , begetting many children , eating and drinking , and enjoying all lawfull pleasures which all the creatures then redeemed from their ancient slavery can afford . . that men may be saved without christ , and the very heathens are saved , if they serve god according to the knowledge god hath given them , though they never heard of christ. . that the least truth is of more worth then jesus christ himself . . christ by his death freed all men from a temporall death which adams sin only deserved , by purchasing them a resurrection , and hath opened them ▪ a way to come to the father if they will : thus far he died for all , no farther for any . . the spirit of god dwels not , nor works in any : it is but our conceits and mistakes to think so , 't is no spirit that works but our own . . that the same spirit which works in the children of disobedience , is that spirit which sanctifies the hearts of the elect . r . that there is a perfect way in this life , not by word , sacraments , prayer and other ordinances , but by the experience of the spirit in a mans self . . that a man baptized with the holy ghost , knows all things even as god knows all things , which point is a deep mystery and great ocean , where there is no casting anchor , no● sounding the bottome . . that if a man by the spirit knew himself to be in the state of grace , though he did commit murther or drunkennesse , god did see no sin in him . . that sanctification is not an evidence of justification , and all notes and signes of a christians estate are legall and unlawfull . . beleevers have no inherent sanctification , nor spirituall habits of grace infused into their hearts , but all their sanctification is that which is inherent in christ , and they for this and no other cause , are said in scripture phrase to be sanctified , but because of christs sanctification and inherent holinesse . e . though adam had continued in his estate of innocencie , and not fallen , yet he had died a naturall death , for death now is not a fruit of sin to beleevers . . gods image on man , is only our face and countenance ; and every wicked man hath therefore gods image as well as good men . . that adam , and so man-kind in him , lost not the image of god by his fall , only incurred a temporall or corporall death , which was suspended for a time upon the promise of a saviour . . there is no originall sin in us , only adams first sin was originall sin . . that the guilt of adams sin is imputed to no man , no man is punished for adams sin . . that one man is no more spirituall then another nor is there any such inward difference between man and man ; but all the spiritualnesse and difference lyes without us in the word , which guides some men , and not others . . that all men who have the gospel preached to them and so manifested to their understandings , are immediatly without any more ado able of themselves to beleeve and receive christ . there is no free-will in man either to good or evill , either in his naturall estate or glorified estate . . that there is a power in man to resist grace , and that the grace which would convert one man , would not convert another . . naturall men may do such things as whereunto god hath by way of promise annexed grace and acceptation , and that if men improve their naturall abilities to the utmost in seeking grace , they shall finde it . . that regenerate men who have true grace , may fall totally and finally away from the state of grace . . that the morall law is of no use at all to beleevers , that 't is no rule for beleevers to walk by , nor to examine their lives by , and that christians are freed from the mandatory power of the law . . persons justified , are not justified by faith , but are justified from all eternity . . neither faith , nor repentance , nor humiliation , nor self-deniall , nor use of ordinances , nor doing as one would be done to , are duties required of christians , or such things as they must exercise themselves in , or they can have no part in christ. . true faith is without all doubts of salvation , and if any man have doubts of his salvation , his faith is to be noted with a black mark . . that to credere ; faith in a proper sense is imputed to justification , and not christs righteousnesse imputed to justification . . that the doctrine of repentance is a soul-destroying doctrine . . in the old covenant ( that is before christ came in the flesh ) in the prophets dayes , repentance is declared as a means to obtain remission , and neither remission nor the knowledge of remission to go before , but to follow contrition ; but this is not the gospel which is established upon better promises . . that 't is as impossible for christ himself to sinne , as for a child of god to sin . . th●● there ought to be no fasting dayes under the gospel , and th●t men ought not to afflict their souls , no not in a day of humiliation . . that god doth not chastise any of his children for sin ; and let beleevers sin as fast as they can , there is a fountaine open for them to wash in ; and that not for the sins of gods people , but for swearers and drunkards the land is punished . . that beleevers have nothing to do to take care , or to look to themselves to keep from sin , god must look to them , if he will. . god loves his children as well sinning , as praying , hearing and doing the holiest duties ; he accounts of them never the better for their good works , nor never the worse for their ill works . . that gods children are not at all to be humbled , troubled or grieved for sin after conversion , and what peter did in this kinde after his foul fact of denying his master , issued from the weaknesse of his faith . . that gods children are not to aske the pardon and forgivenesse of their sins , they need not , they ought not , and 't is no lesse then blasphemy , for a child of god to aske pardon of sins , 't is infidelity to aske pardon of sins , and davids asking forgivenesse of sin was his weaknesse . . that when abraham denyed his wife , and in outward appearance seemed to lie in his distrust , lying , dissembling and equivocating that his wife was his sister , even then truly all his thoughts , words and deeds were perfectly holy and righteous from all spot of sin in the fight of god freely . . the called of god have sin in the flesh , they have sin in the conversation , but they have no sin , neither can they have any in the conscience ; for the true faith of gods elect , and sin in the conscience , can no more stand together then light and darknesse ; and this reconciles those two scriptures , if we say we have no sin , we deceive our selves , and he that is borne of god doth not commi● sin , neither can he , because he is borne of god. . the great antichrist is that mysticall body of iniquity which opposeth jesus christ , and not the pope of rome , or any particular succession of men , only he is a part of antichrist . denn , makes the opposition of antinomian errours to be the man of sin and the great antichrist , as is to be seen in severall pages of his man of sin discovered . and sectaries make them who deny christs dying for all , to be antichrist : others make antichristianisme to consist in the coercive power of the magistrate in matters of religion . . that the soul of man is mortall as the soul of a beast , and dies with the body . . that the souls of the faithfull after death , do sleep til the day of judgement , and are not in a capacity of acting any thing for god , but 't is with them as 't is with a man that is in some pleasing dreame . . that the bodies of the faithfull shall not rise again at the resurrection , ( namely the same that died ) but their soules shall have other bodies made fit for them , either by creation or faction from some preëxisting matter , and though the bodies be new , yet the men are the same , because the same souls remaine still . . infants rise not again , because they are not capable of knowing god and therefore not of enjoying him . . that the perfection and resurrection spoken of by paul , . cor. . . . . . . . . the hope set before us , the eternall inheritance , a city having foundations , whose builder and maker is god , are to be attained in the fullnesse and perfection of them now in this present time , before the common death of the body . . that none of the soules of the saints go to heaven where christ is , but heaven is , empty of the saints till the resurrection of the dead . . there is no resurrection at all of the bodies of men after this life , nor no heaven nor hell after this life , nor no devils . . there shall be in the last day a resurrection from the dead of all the bruit creatures , all beasts and birds that ever lived upon the earth , every individuall of every kinde of them that died shall rise again , as well as of men , and all these creatures shall live for ever upon the earth . there is no hell but in this life , and that 's the legall terrours and feares which men have in their consciences . . that there is no church of christ upon the earth , no true ministery , no sacraments , no gospel , no faith , because there are no visible nor infallible gifts . . no man is damned but for rejecting the gospel , and none can reject the gospel , but those who have it tendred unto them , as they had in the apostles dayes being confirmed by miracles . . that the pure preaching of the word , and righ administration of the saments , are no notes nor signes of a true visible church . . 't is the will of god that miracles should attend the ministry , the apostles make a marriage of doctrine and miracles , so that they who preach the gospel , must be so gifted as to confirme it by signes and wonders . . that many christians in these dayes have more knowledge then the apostles , and when the time is come that there shall be true churches and ministery erected , they shall have greater gifts , and do greater miracles then the apostles ever did , because the christian church was but then in its infancy . . that there ought to be in these times no making or building of churches , nor use of church-ordinances , as ministring of the word , sacraments , but waiting for a church , being in a readiness upon all occasions to take knowledge of any passenger , of any opinion or tenet whatsover ; the saints as pilgrims doe wander as in a temple of smoak , not able to finde religion , and therefore should not plant it by gathering or building a pretended supposed house , but should wait for the coming of the spirit , as the apostles did . . there is a salvation that shall be revealed in the last times , which was not known to the apostles themselves . . that within a while god will raise up apostles , men extraordinarily endowed with visible and infallible gifts to preach the gospel , and that shall precede the fall of rome . * . that in points of religion , even in the articles of faith , and principles of religion , there 's nothing certainly to be beleeved and built on , onely that all men ought to have liberty of conscience , and liberty of prophesying . . that the scriptures no where speak of sacraments , name or thing . . that the covenant , whereof circumcision was the seale , was onely of temporall promises , as ex. g. of the land of canaan ; that the covenant god made with abraham had nothing spirituall in it ; and that circumcision was a seal of the righteousnesse of faith to no other but to abraham alone quatenus a father , and not to his children . . that baptism is not a seal nor signe of the covenant of grace . . that poedobaptisme is unlawfull and antichristian , and that 't is as lawfull to baptize a cat , or a dog , or a chicken , as to baptize the infants of beleevers . . 't is as lawfull to break any of the ten commandements , as to baptize an infant : yea , 't is as lawfull to commit adultery and murther , as to baptize a childe . . that baptizing belongs not to ministers onely , all gifted brethren and preaching disciples ( though no ministers ) may baptize . . baptizednesse is not essentiall to the baptizer , nor essentiall to preaching ; so that persons not onely not in office , but not so much as baptized , may both baptize and preach . . miracles are essentiall to the administration holden forth in the commission of baptisme , matt. . . . that none are to be admitted to the lords supper , though beleevers and saints , nor their children to be baptized , but onely they who are members in a church-way . . there is no scripture against a mans being often baptized ; neither is it more unlawfull to be baptized often , then to receive the lords supper often . . that christs words in the institution of his supper , this is my body , and this is my bloud , are to be understood literally . . that christians in receiving the lords supper should receive with their hats on , with their heads covered ; but the ministers should administer it with their hats off , uncovered . . that 't is as necessary to be joyned in church-fellowship , as with christ the head ; and there 's such a necessity of entring into a church-way , as there is no expectation of salvation without it . . that the church of england and the ministery thereof is antichristian , yea of the devill , and that 't is absolutely sinfull and unlawfull to hear any of their ministers preach in their assembl●es . . that the church of rome was once a true church , but so was the church of england never , therefore 't is likelier the church of rome should be in the right in the doctrines of free-will , universall redemption , originall sin , &c. then the church of england . . that the calling and making of ministers of the word and sacraments are not jure divino , but a minister comes to be so ; as a me●chant , bookseller , tailor , and such like . . that all setled certaine maintenance for ministers of the gospel , especially that which is called tyths , is unlawfull , jewish and antichristian . . that ministers of the gospel in these dayes ought to work with their hands , and to follow some calling , that they may not be chargeable to the church . that there ought to be no distinct order of ministers , nor no such calling of some persons distinct and separated from the people ; but that all men who have gifts are in their turns and courses ; by the appointment of the rest of the company , to preach , pray , baptize , and they are for that turn in stead of ministers , and as ministers . . that all dayes are a like to christians under the new testament , and they are bound no more to the observation of the lords day , or first day of the week then to any other . . that the jewish sabbath or saturday is still to be kept by christians for their sabbath . . that christians are not bound to meet one day in seven constantly , according to the manner of the nations , nor to pray and preach thus long , and in this manner two or three houres , according to the custome of the nations . . no man hath more to do to preach the gospel then another , but every man may preach the gospel , as well as any . . that 't is lawfull for women to preach , and why should they not , having gifts as well as men ? and some of them do actually preach , having great resort to them . . 't is a part of christian liberty of christians , not to hear their own ministers , but to go and heare where they will , and whom they think they may profit most by . . that 't is unlawfull to worship god in places consecrated , and in places where superstition and idolatry have been practised , as in our churches . . that men ought to preach and exercise their gifts without study and premeditation , and not to think of what they are to say till they speak , because it shall be given them in that hour , and the spirit shall teach them . . that there is no need of humane learning , nor of reading authors for preachers , but all books and learning must go down , it comes from the want of the spirit , that men writ such great volumes , and make such adoe of learning . . there are some women , ten or eleven in one town or vicinity , who hold it unlawfull to hear any man preach , either publikely or privately , because they must not be like those women in timothy , ever learning , and never comming to the knowledg of the truth , . tim. . . . . that t is unlawfull to preach at all , sent or not sent out ( as in a church-state ) but only thus , a man may preach as a waiting disciple , that is , christians may not preach in a way of positive asserting and declaring things , but all they may do , is to confer , reason together , and dispute out things . . that t is unlawfull for the saints to joyn in receiving the lords supper , where any wicked men are present , and that such mixt communion doth pollute and defile them . 't is unlawfull for the saints to joyn in prayer where wicked men are , or to pray with any of the wicked . . that 't is unlawfull for christians to pray so much as privately with those ( though godly ) that are not members of a true church , but are members of the church of england , and the assemblies thereof . that however conference and discourse may be had with all , yet t is not lawfull to joyn in prayer or giving of thanks , no not before meat , with those ( though otherwise acknowledged saints and godly , and are members of churches in the church-way ) that a●e not of the same judgement and way . . d that t is not lawfull for christians to pray at all with any others , ( either as being the mouth in prayer , or as joyning in prayer ) though never so godly , and of their own judgements , either in the publike assemblies , or in their families , unlesse such persons who prayed had an infallible spirit , as the apostles . . that christians are not bound to pray constantly every day at set times , as morning and evening , but only at such times as the spirit moves them to it , and if they finde not themselves so moved in many dayes and weeks together , they ought not to pray . . that wicked and unregenerate men ought not to pray unto god at all . . that all singing of psalmes , as davids , or any other holy songs of scripture , is unlawfull , and not to be joyned with . . that the singing which christians should use , is that of hymns and spirituall songs , framed by themselves , composed by their own gifts , and that upon speciall occasions , as deliverances , &c. sung in the congreation by one of the assembly , all the rest being silent . . c that love-feasts , or feasts of love ( with which the lords supper is to be administred also ) is a perpetuall ordinance of christ , at which only church-members are to be present , and to partake . . that there is no distinction concerning government of ecclesiasticall and civil , for all that government which concernes the church , ought to be civill , but the maintaining of that distinction is for maintaining the interests of church-men . . that a few private christians , as six or seven gathering themselves into a covenant and church-fellowship , have an absolute entire power of the keyes , and all government within themselves , and are not under any authoritative power of any classes , synods , or generall councels , whatsoever they do , or what wayes soever they take . . f that the presbytery and presbyteriall government , are the false prophet , and the beast spoken of in the revelations : presbytery is a third part of the city of rome , yea that beast , in revel . . that ascends , and shall kill the two witnesses , namely the independents . . that there are revelations and visions in these times , yea to some they are more ordinary , and shall be to the people of god , generally within a while . . that the gift of miracles is not ceased in these times , but that some of the sectaries have wrought miracles , and miracles have accompanied them in their baptisme , &c. and the people of god shall have power of miracles shortly . . that anointing the sick with oyl by the elders praying over them , with laying on of hands , is a church-ordinance for church-members that are sick , for their recovery . . 't is ordinary for christians now in these dayes , with paul to be rapt up to the third heavens , and to hear words unutterable , and they cannot wel have assurance of being christians , that have not found and had experience of this . . that christian magistrates have no power at all to meddle in matters of g religion , or things ecclesiasticall , but in civill only concerning the bodies and goods of men . . h that for a people to wait upon man for a form to worship god by , was idolatry : nay , for a people to wait upon parliament or assembly for a form to worship god by , was worse then corporall idolatry . . i whatsoever errours or miscarriages in religion , the church should bear withall in men , continuing still in communion with them , as brethren , these the magistrates should bear with in men , continuing them in the kingdom or common-wealth in the enjoyment of the liberty of subjects . . d that the parliament having their power from , and being entrusted by the people , the people may call them to an account for their actions , and set them right and straight : and seeing this present parliam . doth ingrosse law-making , and all law-executing into their own hands , contrary both to reason , and the true meaning of the law , the free-men of england ought not only to chuse new members where they are wanting once every yeer , but also to renew and enquire once a yeer after the behaviour and carriage of those they have chosen . and if they finde they never did any good , or are groundedly suspected to be unserviceable , that then those that chuse and sent them may have liberty to chuse more faithfull , able , and better men in their places . . if god command such a thing to be done in his word , and the magistrate now come and command the same to be done , though a christan ought to have , and would have done it , because of gods command , yet now he ought not to do it , because the magistrate commands it . . all the earth is the saints , and there ought to be a community of goods , and the saints should share in the lands and estates of gentlemen , and rich men . . e that 't is lawfull for a man to put away his wife upon indisposition , unfitnesse , or contrarie●y of minde arising from a cause in nature unchangeable ; and and for disproportion and deadnesse of spirit , or something distastfull and averse in the immutable bent of nature ; and man in regard of the freedom and eminencie of his creation , is a law to himself in this matter , being head of the other sex , which was made for him , neither need he hear any judge therein above himself . . 't is lawfull for one man to have two wives at once . . that children are not bound to obey their parents at all , if they be ungodly . . that parents are not to catechise their little children , nor to set them to read the scripture , or to teach them to pray , but must let them alone for god to teach them . . 't is unlawful for christians to defend religion with the sword , or to fight for it when men come with the sword to take it away ; religion will defend it self . . 't is unlawfull for christians to fight , and take up armes for their lawes and civil liberties . . 't is unlawfull to fight at all , or to kill any man , yea to kill any of the creatures for our use , as a chicken , or on any other occasion . . that using of set forms of prayer prescribed is idolatry . . davids saying , i am a worm , and no man , must be understood literally : yea , he was both a man , and no man in the same literall sense . . that the scripture speaks but of one kinde of faith . . some of the sectaries in london do hold , that in suff●lk there is a prophet raised up to come and preach the everlasting gospel to them , and he staies but for a vocall call from heaven to send him , which is expected daily , and that this man is the prophet spoken of in the scripture , iohn . that prophet in that scripture , distinguished from christ and elias , is this man raised up in suffolk . . that it could not stand with the goodnesse of god , to damne his owne creatures eternally . . that god the father did reign under the law , god the sonne under the gospel , and now god the father and god the sonne are making over the kingdom to god the holy ghost , and he shall reign and be poured out upon all flesh . . that there shall be a generall restauration , wherein all men shall be reconciled to god and saved , only those who now beleeve and are saints before this restauration shall be in a higher condition then those that do not beleeve . . that t is not lawfull for a christian to be a magistrate , but upon turning christian he should lay down his magistracie ; neither do we read after cornelius was baptized ( though he were a centurion before , and a man in command and authority ) that ever he medled any more with his band call'd the italian band . . man lost no more by the fall , then all the rest of the whole creation fell into with adam , all the world being condemned to death and desolation , yea the heavens and the earth also : so that you may as safely conclude that all the whole creation lost life and salvation to glorification by adams transgression , as to conclude that man lost salvation by adams transgression . . man hath not by christ brought unto him eternall life and salvation , but only such a life as all the whole creation hath together with him , for the second adam hath not purchased eternall life to glorification for man. . all the creatures shall assuredly partake of the gospel of peace , and that our lord the great prophet spake something to this purpose , when he saith , go preach the gospel to every creature , though they cannot heare to life and glorification ; and christ is the great prophet of his father , to declare his fathers counsell to the whole creation , and he is the great high-priest , which offereth up himself a sacrifice of full satisfaction , not for all men only , but for all that by man was lost , even the whole creation of god. . that a directory , or order to help in the way of worship , is a breach of the second commandement , and there is no word of god to warrant the making of that directory book , more then ieroboam had for the making of calves of gold , which he set upon two high places , one at dan , the other at bet●el , to the confusion of himself and his posterity . . no man is yet in hell , neither shall any be there untill the judgement ; for god doth not hang first , and judge after . . men say that faith is supernaturall , but how can it be above nature to beleeve that which we see sufficient ground to beleeve ? and to beleeve any thing of which we have no plaine ground and reason , is so far from being above nature , that it is below it , and proper to fools and not to reasonable men . . the law doth not pronounce eternall death in hell fire on those that obey it not , nor were men to have perished in hell fire , in relation to the law or adams sin ; but the gospel pronounceth eternall death in hell fire on those that obey it not ; and if we had been to suffer hell in relation to adam or the law , then christ also should have suffered in hell for us , to have redeemed us from thence , which he did not . . it is not sutable to god , to pick and chuse amongst men in shewing mercy ; if the love of god be manifested to a few , it is far from being infinite , if god shew not mercy to all : to ascribe it to his will or pleasure , is to blaspheme his excellent name and nature . now unto these many more might be added that i know of , and are commonly known to others , which have been preached and printed within these four last years in england ( as the necessity of dipping and burying under water all persons to be baptized , as the necessity of a church-covenant , as that ministers may not lawfully baptize , or administer the lords supper out of their own particular congregations , neither preach ministerially , but as gifted brethren , out of their own church ; with many such errours of the church-way ) but because they are but light in comparison , i will not name them . i could relate also to you other errours , that have been reported to me and others by honest understanding men , to have been vented ( and 't is likely enough they may be true ) as that 't is lawfull for wives to give without their husbands consents , something out of their husbands estates , for the maintenance of the church and ministers whereunto they belong : as that the lords prayer , called and cryed up by many to be so , it could not be the lords prayer , in regard there was a petition for pardon of sins , which christ would not have taught , or words to that purpose ; as also that if a man were strongly moved by the spirit to kill , to commit adultery , &c. and upon praying against it again and again it continued , and yet was still strongly pressed , he should then do it ; but because i have not these upon so good grounds , nor such a concurrence of circumstances , or further confirmation upon enquiry , i therefore forbear to put them down particularly in the catalogue of errours , or to assert them with that authority . i might here also annex to all these errours many expositions of scripture given by the sectaries in their sermons and private meetings ; but i will only give two ; . that of rom. . . the law of the spirit of life , hath freed me from the law of sin and death ; that is , ( as was expounded ) from the morall law. . that of ioh. . sea●ch the scriptures , for in them ye think ye have eternall life ; you thinke to have , that was their thought and mistake , not that christ approved it , that eternall life was to be had in the scriptures . a catalogue of the blasphemies of the sectaries . now besides these errours and heresies laid down , many of them being blasphemies ( as the reader cannot but have observed in perusing their catalogue ) there have been many blasphemies and blasphemous speeches vented by sectaries severall wayes , both by writing , preaching , conference and discoursing , and some so horrid and abominable , in such a dispitefull , scoffing , fearfull way , that i tremble to think of them , and shall forbear to name them : and indeed within these four last years in england there have been blasphemies uttered of the scriptures , the trinity , each person of the trinity , both of father , son and holy ghost , of gods eternall election , of the virgin mary , the apostles and holy penmen of scripture , of baptisme , prayer , the ministery of the word , and the ministers of all the reformed churches , of the government of the church , and of the christian magistrates : in some books printed and dispersed up and down , there are fearfull blasphemies ; as in the arraignment of persecution , the sacred synodycall decretall , martins eccho &c. profaning and abusing the holy and dreadfull name of god in a most fearfull manner , scoffing at the holy ghost , sent in a cloak-bagg from scotland , making a most blasphemous prayer , wherein the passion , death , resurrection and ascension of christ are in a scoffing way alluded unto , with many others which i will not foul paper with transcribing . in some manuscripts of one paul best , there are most horrid blasphemies of the trinity , of christ , and of the holy ghost , calling the doctrine of the trinity , a mystery of iniquity , the three headed cerberus , a fiction , a tradition of rome , monstr●m biforme , triforme , with other horrid expressions borowed from hell , not fit to be mentioned . there was a fearfull blasphemous scoffing speech of god the father , son , and holy ghost , spoken by one clarke ( as i remember the name ) given in to a committee of parliament , in way of complaint in writing , with a hand subscribed , and one witnessed it before ▪ the committee , but i forbear to relate it . mr paget in his heresiography , epistle dedicatory , speakes of one committed for mocking at christs incarnation , the particulars whereof , though i have been told from master paget , yet i judge it best to conceal . there have been many blaspheming speeches , in a way of derision of the holy ghost , calling it flabile numen , and asking what kinde of bird it was ? whether — but i dare not speak it . the holy scriptures are by many in these times sleighted and scoffed at ( that growes and spreades much ) called the golden calfe , that there are many contradictions and lyes in them , that they are no better then a ballad , that they can make as good scriptures ; that place in genesis , . . where 't is said , god repented that be made man was untrue ; so other places of scripture . the doctrine of gods eternall election and praedestination hath been call'd a damnable errour . the virgin mary hath been called a — the apostles have been called — and they could write as good scriptures as the apostles ; upon occasion of quoting that scripture in rom. . of pauls complaining of ●inne , it hath been answered , paul was a novice , and that was his weaknesse , and that paul understood not christ in the promise ; and that hee for his part understood the mystery of god in christ better then saint paul. when that scripture in gal. . . was objected to one that pleaded for liberty of conscience , the answer was , he thought the apostle was in a great passion . a minister in hartfordshire bringing a place of scripture against an anabaptist , to confute him in some opinion he held , the anabaptist confessed he could not answer it , but said , it was the weaknesse of the apostle , and there he wanted the spirit . another sectary denying the resurrection of the dead , and some of of the church coming to admonish him of that errour , and bringing scripture to prove it , hee answered , this is scripture to you ▪ but not to me . poedobaptisme hath been blasphemed by many reproachfull speeeches : the lords prayer hath been sl●ighted and scornfully spoken of : the whole ministery of all the reformed churches , with their ordination , worke of preaching , &c. scorned and abused in severall pamphlets : the presbyteriall and synodicall government , reproached in all v●lde and scoffing language , call'd devillish , antichristian , and all to naught , resembled to the beast in the revelation : the civil government and magistrates have been blasphemed , with their ordinances , orders and supream court of judicature , the parliament call'd antichristian , and the committee of examinations jeared , by way of comparing it to the court of inquisition , and to the high commission : the solemn , sacred and nationall covenant of the kingdoms , derided , blasphemed in many pamphlets , that many pages would not contain them . but i will not trouble the reader to name any more of them : mr. pryn in his fresh discovery of new lights , hath extracted many passages of this kinde out of the pamphlets of the sectaries , and in a libellous book entituled englands birtbright , there 's more stuffe of the same kind . now having presented the reader with the errours and blasphemies ; before i come to the practices of the sectaries , i will relate some few passages in the prayers of the sectaries , which were vented either in publike assemblies and churches , or in their private church-meetings , all within the compasse of a twelve-moneth , or thereabouts . some passages in the prayers of the sectaries . and though wee are discountenanced by the civil magistrate ( which is a great thing ) after they have had our estates , and our blood , yet lord &c. when the blinde man was thrust out of the synagogue by the pharisees , jesus christ met him ; so though wee are thrust out of the common assemblies and mens affections who formerly loved us , &c. let the spirit teach us , wee may look four , five yeers from an assembly of men before they teach us , &c. though they may with-hold the truth in policie , yet thy spirit can teach us if , all the ministers in the world hold their peace , &c. thou hast triumphed gloriously by a despised army , not only by our enemies , but our seeming friends , who indeed were our reall enemies , vilifying those men whom thou hast been pleased to honour , &c. another independent minister in his prayer prayed , that the presbyteri● might be removed , that christs kingdome might be set up . another independent minister , about the end of september last , gave god thanks for breaking the neck of that wretched * petition of the citizens . august last the tenth day , being presently upon lilburns committing to newgate , at knowles church in st. hellens on a lords day , mr. knowles prayed these words , or to this effect ; lord , bring thy servant lilburn out of prison , and honour him lord , for he hath honoured thee . this last moneth in december , one of the independent ministers in his prayers at a lecture , two or three severall lectures , prayed to god that the parliament might give libertie to tender consciences . one of the independent ministers at his church-meeting in a house , gave thanks unto god for the libertie of conscience granted in america , and said , why , lord not in england as well as in america ? or words to that purpose . another independent minister in his prayer put up this petition , o lord make the parliament friends to the saints . * may . . an independent minister praying for the parliament , prayed that god would keep the parliament from greeving the saints , or doing any acts that might make them sad ; that they for whom so many prayers and praises had been put up by the saints , might not now grieve them . april the same independent minister in his prayer after sermon , prayed , that now god had delivered us both ( namely , the presbyterian and independent ) from such bondage and oppression , we might not be guiltie of bringing our brethren into bondage , left the lord carrie us back again into egypt for it . the same prayed on august , joyning parliament and assembly together , that they might do nothing but what the saints should rejoyce in , and be glad of . about the beginning of september last , a reverend minister of the assembly who was an ear-witnesse related it , and said he would acquaint the commissioners of scotland with it ; that an independent minister , either in his prayer or sermon , used words to his effect of the scots , that it was just with god to bring this overthrow upon scotland , because of their beating their fellow-servants ; and that they could not be content with suffering their brethren to enjoy their libertie , but must have a domination . having given the reader an account of many errours and blasphemies of the sectaries , with some passages in their prayers ; i come now to relate many of their practices . but the reader must not conceive i can set down all , or that any one man ( although of far greater abilities and leisure , having also fairer opportunities of conversing among them , with lesse suspition observing their wayes , than my selfe ) is able to do it . they have many depths , wiles and methods which i know not , nor cannot find out ; there are many windings and turnings of the se●p●nt , crooked goings in and out , off and on , here and there , which i cannot trace , the way of the serpent upon a rock is too wonderfull for me , and which i know not , prov. , . they , proteus-like , turne themselves into all shapes and forms , and according to severall occasions and times , have different humours and tempers , sometimes complying so , that one would think all diff●●ence would quickly be at an end , and they were ours , sometimes so far off and b●ck again , as causes wonder and amazement in the beholders . i have been told from godly and wise men , who have had much to do with some of them , and have professed to set themselves to studie , and to observe them ( men who are moderate enough , and have a speciall love to some of them ) that they know not what to make of them , they are strange men , nor cannot fadom their depths , and therfore 't is not to be expected from me , a plain open-harted man ( who hate tricks , playing under-boord , reserves and designes , whose motto is that of the psalmist , psal. . . let integritie and uprightnesse preserve me , for i wait on thee , and never studied machiavel , nor am not versed in the jesuits politicks ) that i should discover all their practices and wayes : neither was it my intention or scope in writing of this book , to speak all i know of their practices and wayes , ( for i took a resolution in the entrance of this work , not to be too large ) that so the more might both buy and read it , and my purpose is hereafter ( god sparing me life , health and liberty ) for the benefit both of the present and succeding generations , to write an historicall narration of all the proceedings and wayes of the english sectaries , both in england and beyond the seas , from the first yeare of the parliaments sitting , till the time of the setting forth that history , and have already laid in many materialls , and kept an exact account of the most remarkable passages tending that way ; and my earnest desire is to all the godly o●●hodox readers , into whose hands this book shall come , who are enemies to sects and schismes , and lovers of truth , peace , and order , whether gentlemen of committees in the severall counties , or souldiers in the armies , or ministers in the severall parts of the kingdome , or other godly christians , that they would be pleased within this three or four moneths next following , to communicate to me all the certaine intelligence they have , of the opinions , wayes and proceedings of the sectaries ; and i promise faithfully , that whatever agreement or condition be made by anie who imparts any matters to me ( as namely for concealing of their names , or f●●bearing the relation of such and such particulars , as place , &c. whatever they be ) i will 〈…〉 observe , and they shall find mee both secret and true to them ( for i feare god , and dare not violate my promise ) only for the present i shall g●ve the world a 〈◊〉 and tryall of the practices of the sectaries , for upon some of the heads of their practices and wayes which i in this present discourse name , i could write upon each of them a booke , in giving instances and examples for a proofe and confirmation of their truth . now i might in the first place make a parallel between the practices and waies of out sect●ries , and the sectaries of old in the primitive times ( especially the don●tist ▪ ) as also between them and the jesuits , them and the arminians , of the netherlands , them and the prelates , and their court-party , them and the present malignants ; yea , them and some of the bad emp●rours , as iulian , and could shew such an agreement in their practices and wayes , treading so just in their paths and steps , as if none of them were dead or put down in england , only now acted among us under new names , and under other habits and formes , but still the soules and spirits of the donatists , jesuits , arminians , prelates , and court-party were alive , and transformed into many of the sectaries : and indeed to do this fully would deserve a tractate by it selfe , which i shall leave to be done by some other more able hand ; or else if no other take up such a fruitfull argument , i may find some opportunity hereafter to treat upon it ; only before i name the particular practices of the sectaries , as i have done their errours , i will ●i●● some of the more speciall parllels between the sectaries , and the donatists , jesuits &c. first for the donatists , and some other sectaries of the primitive times , . our sectaries and they agree in their complaints of persecution of their schisme : the donatists would alwaies be complaining of th●● , as * augustine shewes it in many places of his learned works against them ; and our sectaries in their sermons , prayers , pamphlets , discourses , petitions , all crying out of persecution , and accusing the orthodox presbyterians of persecution ; yea , when for their seditious , tumultuous , libellous sc●ffing , wicked lying , scandalous reports , books and practices , they have been q●●stioned , there 's nothing in their mou●hs but persecution , and unheard of prosecution of the godly . i am of the minde if any of them sh●uld come to bee imprisoned , and hanged , for stealing , killing a godly presbyterian , plotting against the parliament and city , in seizing upon their forts , or some parliament-men , one or other of them would cry out of perse●ution . . they agree in their furious outrages and violences against all that oppose their way : learned men know what circumcelliones there were among the donatists , and to what a height they came as * augustine relates ; and among the sectaries , there are outragious furious men , and such that in the churches have committed many insolencies , assaulted and abused some ministers in their own houses , and in other places where they have met them : but i must not enlarge . . they agree in their high flatteries of themselves and their party , extolling them and crying them up to the heavens ; the donatists did ●leo adorationum impinguere capita , as * augustine speakes ; and the sectaries of our times are incomparable flatterers and admirers of their owne party , have written and spoken such praises and flatteries of their side , as have come almost to blasphemy ; these phrases are ordinary , as precious men as any upon earth , men of a most precious anointing , none since the apostles times like them for gifts and abilities ; ye● , some have not sticked to say , they were beyond the apostles , and if jesus christ himselfe were on earth he could hardly preach better , that they lead as holy lives as saints and angells in heaven . . in their great partiality , practi●ing that themselves which they condemne in others . * augustine shewes this in many places of the donatists : i could give many instances , of our sectaries in this kinde , crying out of preaching and printing by the orthodox against them , and yet preaching and printing all kind of things against them ; speaking against petitioning the parliament , or interposing in any thing before them by way of petition , or having me●tings for that end , ( as you may find in some of the news bookes the pensioners of the sectaries , ) and yet themselves in a disorderly tumultuous way , being but private particular persons ( neither bodies , nor societies representative , nor reall ) have had many strange meetings , and drawn up petitions with clauses and passages medling with the affaires of parliament , in a kinde charging them , and taking cognizance of things of a high nature done in parliament , before the time they ought , with many such like : * but i take off my hand . . * in their appealing from ecclesiasticall judges to the temporall : so the sectaries , from classes and synods to the parliament , or some temporall judges appointed by them . . in their unwillingnesse to have their actions or writings examined by anie judicious learned men , but keeping things in the darke . epiphanius resembles sectaries to a moule , a feeble creature that doth much hurt by keeping under ground , but it once above ground , then 't is contemptible and easily taken : some of the sectaries have been provoked enough to set down what they would have , both by earnest intreaties from beyond seas , and at home , by commands in a kind , by upbraidings for not doing it , and yet to this day they cannot be brought to it ; and i judge 't is for these reasons : . because they cannot well agree among themselves of any system or body . . because they know not how long they shall be of this mind , nor how much further yet they may go . . because what they set downe may offend manie of their owne party , and loosen all the rest of the sects from them . . because some grandees , and persons of note ( who are gone further , ) will not be well pleased at it . because when once given under their hands , and that after so long expectation , it will be judged by all rationall men their utmost strength ( which if it should have answer upon answer , as no doubt it will ) and the weaknesse of it discovered and laid bare , they are lost among manie , and will suffer exceedingly in the esteem of all intelligent unprejudiced men , whereas now by being silent , they bare the world in hand , as if they had some great matter of strength ; manie before they speake and utter themselves are thought to bee wise , and to have much in them , who when they have once spoken , are easily seene thorow . . in their quoting authours for them , who are acknowledged for the main to be professedly against them ; and in their quoting pieces of authours , and not the whole , leaving the latter part which would explain their meaning ; thus the donatists did * cyprian , and yet he was much against them as he professes ; and so augustine complains of the donatists , integrus non allegarunt scripturas ; thus the author of sions prerogative royall , quotes many presbyrians for severall things , who professedly were of another way ; and one mr. e. ( as the reader may observe in an extract of one of the printed letters ) quotes the churches of france , scotland , &c. for the independent way , who are knowne to be professedly against it : and so * the author of the bounds of libertie of consc. quotes the leydenses a profess . for him , who professedly speak against it , and in b one sentence hee leaves out some three times words all of them belonging to one sentence , which would shew the sense of those learned men to be against him ( as notorious a falsification as i think is to be found in any papist ) and so mr. iohn goodwin in his point of justification quotes calvin , bucer , and others , who are knowne ex professo , a to be of another judgement ; and hee quotes b my antapologie with other authors , to justifie his opinion , when as i have professedly at large spoken against what he maintains ; and among other places which he pe●verts , i shall name one , where he cites the former part of the senten●e , leaving out the latter , which had hee but name● , would have been an evident con●u●ation o● him , 〈◊〉 just with me as the devill did by christ a , psal. . leaving out the last part , to keep thee in all thy wayes . ●he sectaries and the jesuites agree in many things . as the jesuites are ramous for sending out em●●laries into severall countries to corrupt , not conten●ing themselves to do mischiefe at home ; ●o do our sectaries send forth their members into all counties and places of this kingdome , they lay hand , upon them , and send them as a church act to preach such and such errours , to rebaptize , &c. the jesuites have their piae ●●●udes , holy deceits for the propagating of their cause , fictions , made things to deceive the people ; so have our sectaries many for the spreading of their partie . ●he jesuites insinuating themselves , get into 〈…〉 houses and acquaintance , into g●eat ladies and ge●●lewomens , and into princes courts and houses , and follow state matters , meet to contrive and consult , not preac●ing too much , nor following their studies too hard ; so do many of our sectaries g●t into acquaintance and favour with great noblemen , parliament-men , ●ell●cite , follow them , work by the great ladies and gentlewomen , consult and de●ate of matters civill , &c. the jesuites are full of equivocations , 〈◊〉 reservations , say one thing , but meane another , speak things in a sense of their own , d●fferent from what it is in the common accep●ion , so are our s●ctaries . the jesuites have alwayes one plot or other , never give out , are working active men , if crossed in one , then are trying in another , and have many 〈◊〉 in the fire at once , that if one do not take , another may , nothing discourages them , but on they go ; so it is with the sectaries of our ti●e , active nimble men , restlesse spirits , never without plots and ●i●e designes , with 〈◊〉 of many at once , that if some mis-carrie , yet others may bring forth . th● jesuites will work and act where they are not thought to be , by others , a●d by instruments unsuspected , not appearing themselves , but bringing about their ends in such a manner , as a man would never dream of ; so our sectaries will not appear themselves in many things , when yet the hand of ioab is all along , but get their work done by others , who also draw others to them . the jesuits make all things give place to their designes , to advance the catholike cause , and so they may compasse them , they are not mannerly to stand upon tearms , but will take any person out of the way who stands to hinder them , use severall indirect means to effect what they have plotted , run great ventures and hazards but they wil● go thorow : so the s●ctaries of our times are daring men , will attempt t●i●gs ( a wis● man would think ) they should be afr●id of , will try to break any man or work him out that stands between them and home , and do things ( though otherwise against their principles ) the sect●ies and the netherland arminians agree ; the arminians at first flatter●d the m●g●st●ate● , declyning synods and ecclesiasticall ass●mblies all they could , and still appealing to the civill magistrate ▪ crying up the power of the civill magistrate in ecclesiasticalls , ascribing to the magistrate the ultimate and highest jurisdiction and power of giving judgement in matters purely ecclesi●●ticall , reasoning , that to the magistrate alone immediately under christ did belong the judgement , where controv●rsies of faith did arise in the church , and they aspensed the orthodox ministers for not giving so much : of this the reader may finde enough in voetius and vedelius ; so do our sectaries , all of them are against synods , declyning them , manie of them say , they will in all matters of religion give account to the parliament , or so any committee appointed by them ; and say , they give more to the magistrate then the presbyterians , and in that kinde have odious insinuations to reflect upon presbyterians . . the arminians at first broached but small and few errours in comparison , but in some yeares time , came to vent all kind of errors almost , socinian errors , and what not ? so our sectaries at first were more modest , but within these foure yeares , especially these two last , how they have growne , and what they are fallen into , the fore named catalogue is sufficient proofe . . the ar●inians professed reserves , became scepticks , were against certainty of faith , they came to have ( as our divines have expressed , ) a monethly faith , nay an hour●ly ; this they now held , but they know not what they might hold to morrow or the next houre ; this principle of uncertainty in matters of religion the remonstrants did hold forth , in those times of the troubles of the churches in the netherlands , that so they might overturn all forms and harmonies ; that was one of the scepticall rules of the arminians , dies diem docet ; so our sectaries are all for new light and reserves , and multitudes of them are become meer scepticks and questionists , and will tell you , this they hold for the present , but know not yet what they may see , &c. . the arminians could not be brought to speak out a long while , nor to give what they would have , but hid themselves in doubtfull phrases , and were feared monstri aliquid alere : when they stood for and desired a toleration upon conferences and meetings they were put to it , to give in what they held , and all they held , they were proffered at the conference holden at delph favour and toleration , if they would give assurance they desired only forbearance in the five points , but they could not be got to it ; so our sectaries have forborne to this day , notwithstanding all meanes used , to set down this we hold , this we will stick to . . the arminians in those times in the low-countries , in some cities and towns where they had power , persecuted the orthodox , troubled them much ; so do our sectaries in towns or places where they have power , persecute godly orthodox men , especially if zealous against the sects : o how have some sectaries vexed , plagued and troubled many godly ministers and people severall waies ! of which more under their particular policies , & factious practices . . the arminians , had well nigh undone the netherlands , and brought all to confusion , & had not the old prince of orange been stout and wise , even doing something beyond the ordinarie way of his power ; and upon the synod of dort determining the magistrate added the civill sanction , and used coercive power , that countrey had been lost ; so sectaries have by their errours , divisions and factions they have made among us , hazarded all , and if god do not wonderfully put in , and be mercifull to us , their waies and courses will undo us all . . the netherland arminians would be remonstrants , did write against , complaine of the synod of dort , that they could not have their liberty , were not well dealt with , could not have so faire a hearing ; how many books were written , how many aspersions were cast upon the synod ? and have not , and do not our sectaries write against the assembly ? complain by word of mouth ? are not their mouthes full of such speeches ? they cannot be heard , they have not had liberty to bring in their questions , &c. is it not remarkable , that the pamphlet , or rather libell against the assembly , put forth by stealth , is entituled , a remonstrance of the dissenting brethren ? so that they are the english remonstrants . the netherland arminians when once the magistrate did effectually set to back the synod of dort , and were against them , then they writ books in a far other stile , and that power which before they so liberally measured out to them , they did not a little limit and contract , denying the magistrate had any power over private meetings ; so our sectaries , if once the magistrates come to suppresse their errours and false doctrines , and their private meetings , we shall see how they will change their stile ; nay , have wee not too much experience , how but upon votes for government , and but upon the preparative orders for setling church-government , upon the overtures of it this l●st summer , when the order came of casting this city into classes and a province , and an order for choosing tryers of elders , what passages had we in sermons , prayers of some of the sectaries ; as among many to give two onely , on the day of thanksgiving for taking sherborne castle , a sectary preached this , that the parliament was making of lawes against the saints , and that he was not afraid to speake , because he was not afraid to suffer . and others preached of the great persecution that was coming ; and how the bishops tyrannie would be nothing to the presbyterians , their finger would be heavier then the bishops loynes , or words to that purpose . the sectaries and the bishops , with that court party agree : . the bishops and the court party would bring off one way or other , by letters written from great friends at court , by appearing for them , by removing to some other place the businesse by finding out one device or another , deluding the parties who prosecuted and troubled them , all those of their party that were active and able ; who by vertue of the lawes , conscience , and courage , some men in place were questioned and indangered , for preaching some doctrines of poperie and arminiansme , &c. or for some practices not legall , of which many examples were in the former time , fetching them out of the hands of orthodox men who had power ; sending warrants for discharge of priests , jesuites , &c. and now all england over generally , the sectaries for anie of their partie that are questioned , either for preaching false doctrines , or for speaking unjustifiable words , or for other misdemeanours , do use all waies to bring them off ; they will use meanes to remove them from one committee to another , where they are stronger , they will get letters writ on their behalfe , they will work things so , as by delayes one way or another the sectaries shall escape , as much as ever the jesuits , priests , arminians , innovators did heretofore . . the bishops and court party would prefer none but their party , kept out all men from all places in church and common-wealth , though never so deserving , especially if zealous , or had anie great parts to stand for the truth , and they would prefer their own partie though never so unworthy , though little to commend them ; and so the sectaries , in all places where they have power , bring in sectaries though otherwise unfit , into offices and places , though dishonest and scandalous , and set themselves with all the industry and cunning that may be to keep out godly conscientious men that are against the sects , though the , publike suffer never so much for the want of them . . the bishops and court-party did set themselves to worme out ( that being the archbishops phrase ) all godly , zealous , able men out of places , and would by one means or device watching them , cast them out quite , or so hamper and vex them , that they were weary of their lives and places ; so doe our sectaries make it their study , to remove , worme by degrees out of places upon one pretence or other , when they cannot doe it otherwise active presbyterians , of which we have too manie instances , and set themselves to vex them , by over-rating in townes where they have place , by bringing them into haberdashers h●ll , by putting in articles against them which they cannot prove , and so putting them to chargeable journeyes and expences , with abundance of such . . the bishops and the court-party to bring about their ends , would bring matters to such a condition , and such a necessitie , and then would make those necessities , that condition of affaires , as a ground of such and such following actions , pleading the necessities and the condition of the times as their warrant ; so our sectaries doe in many cases , they have by their policies and wayes hindred the setling of church-government all this while , and they plead the long delay of setling it , as a ground to justifie their gathering churches , saying , how manie yeares would you have us to stay ? when as in the assembly , citie , in all places , by all meanes where they have anie interest , they retard the work ; and so if meanes be used by petitioning the parliament to settle church-government , and to suppresse the great errours , then some of the sectaries say and give out , the army will be offended , when as many of the sectaries have used all meanes , and do still , to bring things to that passe , that we might have an armie under the commands , and in the hands of the sectaries , though ( blessed be god ) we have a noble generall free from sectarisme and not above one in six in the armie that way tainted . . the prelaticall faction and that court-partie were great innovatours , given to change , running from one opinion to another , being arminians as well as popish , yea some of them soci●inians , and countenancing such , and were everie day inventing some new matter in worship , adding this ceremonie and the other , putting downe some part of worships , and altering them by substituting other ; as in putting down singing of psalmes in some churches , and having hymnes ; in putting downe all conceived prayer , and commanding bidding of prayer , with a multitude of such like : so our sectaries are great innovatours as changeable as the moon , bringing into their churches new opinions daily , new practices , taking away the old used in all reformed churches , and substituting new ; taking away of singing of psalms , and pleading for hymnes of their own making ; bringing in anoynting with oyl , bringing in their laying on of hands to give the holy ghost , with severall other strange wayes and practices , which the reader shall find in this following discourse , among the narrations of passages and stories . the prelaticall faction and that court-clergie were daring bold men , that durst venture almost upon any thing , upon counselling to prorogue and break up parliaments in times of danger and distraction , upon putting men out of offices and places that were not for their turne , and to bring in others calculated for their meridian , upon corrupting religion and lawes at once , breaking in both upon the truth and the libertie of the subject at the same time , upon any thing or person that stood in their way : so our sectaries , many of them are daring men , have attempted and been upon high businesses , about counselling and drawing up petitions for adjourning ( as they call it ) the assembly , in a time when the distractions of this church are so infinite , and things so unsetled ; as also have inserted strange passages into other petitions , which yet have not been presented , others of the company opposing them ; with severall other particulars , which would be too large now to relate ; in one word , there is almost nothing which they have not and dare not venture on , that stands in their light , and in the way of their designes ; and i may say of many of the sectaries ( for i do not mean all , as i have said before , so i say again , there are some good souls meerly seduced , who are not of the faction ) they have overpassed the deeds of the wicked , not only walked after their wayes , nor done after their abominations , but have corrupted themselves more than they ; justified the bishops and their faction , by falling into those opinions , and doing those actions in an high , bold , and open way , which that faction never durst do for feare of the people . next , the present malignants and the sectaries agree in the generall thus , that thorowout the kingdome , it is now notorious , that the greatest malignants and sectaries hold together , and vote together against the presbyterians and the reformation , in all places and upon all businesses , of which there are many examples in the choyce of burgesses for parliament , in the petition presented in london , at the choyce of the new common-councell , the grandest malignants and the independents joyned together to oppose ; and in some committees , where men of both these sorts are , it is observed also : but to come to some particulars ; the parallel between the present malignants and our grand sectaries , stands in these ; the malignants have opposed the proceedings of parliament , by preaching and writing books against them , reviling the houses , especially the house of commons , and many particular worthy members by name , speaking against their ordinances , constitutions , as covenant , directorie , ordination , against their power and priviledges ; we know what aulicus that grand malignant hath done , and how manie books both from oxford and here at london hath been by the malignant partie printed and vented : so also have manie sectaries , and here it would fill a great book , to bring into one all the speeches , with the passages in petitions , sermons , prayers , printed books , that have been vented against the parliament , and particular worthy members of both houses , their power and power and priviledges , with their ordinances and orders , in reference to matters of religion , as the nationall covenant , directorie , ordinance against mens preaching out of office , the monethly fast , the ordinance for tithes , the orders and directions about classes , and chusing elders ; in which sermons , printed books , discourses , petitions , and other carriages of the sectaries , there have been more things vented distructive to the verie power and nature of parliaments , undermining the verie root and foundation , and all their proceedings in reference to matters of religion , yea of justice and civill matters , then ever have been by all the malignants in england as ever i could heare of ; witnesse lilburnes booke , with that lately come forth , call'd innocency and truth justified , all the printed letters and papers that were printed upon occasion of his imprisonment ; englands birthright , the ordinance of tithes dismounted , the arraignment of persecution , and all his fellowes , as martins eccho , &c. turners heavenly con●erence for sions saints , resembling the directory to the golden calves of jeroboam , and affirming there are untruths , contradictions to the canonicall scriptures , errours , &c. and here i dare be bold to say , that here have been greater insolencies and affronts offered to this parliament by many of the sectaries , then ever was to parliament in england by any men who lived within their power : as for instance , when lilburne was committed to prison , and such a letter was come forth in his name against the parliament , in such an open vile manner , and at such a time , being prisoner , many of the sectaries of southwark met together , and propounded to chuse lilburne burgesse for parliament ; and that lilburne after so great favour and mercy showne him by the house of commons , after so high an abuse of the honourable speaker , the honourable committee of examinations , yea and of the whole house , as discharging him of his imprisonment , without either acknowledging the justice , or petitioning for the mercy of the house of commons ( a favour that i never heard or read of granted to any man before , and that i thought had been a thing impossible , ' even against the fundamentall orders of the house , for a man committed by the house upon far lesse offences , without petitioning to be set free ) should yet set forth a * book to all the world , justifying himself in his former waies , and point blank charge the house with being unjustly dealt with in his late imprisonment , imprisoning him contrarie to the knowne and declared lawes ; yea further , in severall places of his book , after a bold and audacious manner abusing and bringing in dangerous insinuations reflecting upon them . o what unheard of malignancies are these i and so mr. iohn goodwin in a sermon hath uttered that against the parliament & the power of it , as opens a gap to all sleighting of their authoritie and power ; and i beleeve never was there any such speech from any before himselfe . the sectaries and malignants agree in being bitter enemies of our brethren of scotland , and of their armies ; the malignants wee know look upon them with an evill eye , as the first cause of all their miserie , and cannot give them a good word ; and all the world sees how the sectaries hate the scots , raise and spread evill reports upon them , are as thorns in their sides , heavy enemies , obstructing them in all places where they have power , devising alwaies to be rid of them , and studying what in them lies to make a breach ; i could tell the reader many speeches , stories of the sectaries in this kinde in reference to our brethren of scotland , but it needs not , for they that run may read it . . they agree in this , rather to have episcopal government and a toleration , then a strict presbyteriall and thorow reformation ; we all know this would please aulicus and his fellowes , and i thinke i can prove from good hands ( and if i should name them , the sectaries would say so to ) that some of the prime ministers in the way of the sects have said , that episcopall government and a toleration of their way would give them content . the malignants and sectaries agree in independency , the malignants now turn independents , and professe they are for independency , and for this i could quote severall speeches , and name some malignant ministers , and others of note who are for independency against presbytery ; but this is now so commonly known , that britanicus a man who hath done them many good offices , and cryed up several of them , confesses in one of his pamphlets about a fortnight since , that the malignants are turned independents ; hardly a malignant priest about town , but is for independency against presbyterie . lastly , the sectaries agree with iulian the apostata and some other enemies of christians in these four things . . iulian was a great scoffer at the scriptures , christ and christian religion , as eccles. stories mention ; and manie of the sectaries of our time , are fearfull scoffers and mockers at all things that are good , scriptures , trinitie , christ , ministery , ordinances , what not ? there was never a greater generation of scoffers at religion then many of the sectaries of our times , witnesse manie printed books , as arraignment of persecution , and his fellowes , the ordinance of tithes dismounted , besides manie scoffing bookes against the presbyteriall government , as the two brethrens ms. with others of that kinde . . a iulian was a great enemy to the learning of christians , used all means to overthrow learning ; so do manie sectaries in our time . . he attempted to get the militia out of the hands of the orthodox christians , as theodoret in his eccles. historie relateth : and the sectaries have and do use all meanes within their power to get the militia out of the hands of the orthodox into their hands solely , of which i could tell tales . b iulian was the great patron of toleration for all sects , donatists , arians , eunomians , he was the great man for libertas perditionis ( as augustine calls it ) the donatists fled to him , hee gave them publike liberty of churches , hee called backe from banishment aetius the great leader of the eunomian heresie , and whether all the sects are not agreed with him in that , as also with valens another wicked emperour , who was for toleration of all but the orthodox , i leave to their own consciences to determine . and as i have made a parallel between the sectaries of our time , and the donati●ts , jesuits , &c. so i might now at large show in all the fore-named particulars an antithesis and dissimilitude betweene the godly orthodox presbyterians , and the donatists , jesuits , arminians , prelates , &c. but i dare not enter into it for feare my book be too voluminous , having already exceeded that proportion which i at first intended when i began it ; all i shall do then in point of parallel , is but to hint a few things ( which i desire the reader well to observe ) of the difference in the carriage and behaviour these foure yeares last past all along of the presbyterians both to the honourable houses , and the sectaries ; and of the sectaries to the parliament and the presbyterians ; and for the truth of what i say , i dare appeal to all the world , yea and to the consciences of many sectaries themselves . though the presbyterian party from the beginning of the differences between the king and parliament , among those who professe to stand for reformation and for the parliament hath been , and still is ( without all compare ) the greater part of both kingdomes , the body of both assemblies and ministers , the body of the people in cities and countries ( especially of persons eminent in place and quality ) yea , and the parliaments too , ( of the parliament of scotland there 's no question ; ) the parliament of england also , after advice had with the assembly , hath declared for presbytery , having voted and formed into orders , directions , and ordinances , severall parts and pieces of presbyteriall government ; yet for all this have not the presbyterians taken upon them to set up the government in that manner and way as they conceive and judge to be most agreeable to the word , drawing in the people with them , but have waited upon the parliament all this while for the setling of the church , addressing themselves in most humble manner , by way o● petitioning , and that both assembly , court of common councell , ministers , people ; and when sometimes their hopes have been deferred beyond all expectation , and have met with some disappointments and discour●gements in their petitions , about setling the church , as by a vote passed against one petition before it was presented , as small thanks given for another , and little respect shewed to a third ; besides the sectaries insulting over them and their petitions , branding them in pulpits , in the weekly news-books , and in their daily discourses , notwithstanding what ever they might conceive of neglects and hard usage on the one hand , and of great abuse of them by the s●ct●ries on the other hand , yet they have taken all patiently , waiting still , petitioning still in all humble and thankfull manner , fo●bearing to print what was presented ( though there was no o●der nor command against it ) out of their tender respect of giving any offence , or displeasing the parli●ment ( though in the meane time they suffered much by mis-reports of their proceedings , both for matter and manner : ) the presbyterian partie ( though the assembly of divines , the representative body of the citie , the court of common-councell , the ministerie of the kingdome , thousands and ten thousands of godly well aff●cted persons , the kingdome of scotland , yes all the reformed churches own that way , ) hath not upon the fore-named things and others ( as the not giving leave upon a petition to print an answer to the remonstrance of the independents , in which the assembly is extremely wronged ) broke●●t either against the parliament , saying they will fight no longer , &c. speaking their pleasure of them , drawing up all their grievances to a head , and setting them forth in print ; or ag●inst particular members , falling upon them by name , making them to be knowne to the world , whom they conceive and have been informed of , to be the great hinderers of their desires , and sticklers against them ; but even as becomes christians have taken all patiently , waiting upon god and the parliament . and as the carriage of the presbyterian hath been thus in all humble dutie and high respect to the houses of parliament , and everie member in their places ( for i have not yet heard of any presbyterian that hath singled out any one member by name , to abuse him in print , as some sectaries have done , both particular members , and the whole house of commons ) so hath it been with all love , brotherly kindnesse , tendernesse , respect and forbearance to the sectaries ; and considering that the presbyterians were , as i have shewed before , both of the ministers and people standing for reformation , the body of both kingdomes , having the command and power of the pulpits , so great an interest in the people , &c. their love and forbearance to the sectaries hath been admirable ; when the independents were but few , and other sectaries a small number , in the first and second yeare of this parliament , some halfe a score or dozen ministers , three or foure hundred people , the presbyterians gave them the right hand of fellowship , admitted them to their meetings , opened their pulpit doores , unto them , shewed all brotherly respect of love and kindnesse to them , even more then to most of their own way condescending to such a motion , as to forbeare preaching and printing against their opinions and way , making them ( who were so small and inconsiderable a party ) as it were an equall partie , putting them into the balance with themselves ; they appeared not to hinder their being chosen to bee generall lecturers , for this city in severall great churches : and as at first , so all along they have been tender and respectfull of them in assembly , city , and in all cases , suffering them to grow up to thousands ; and notwithstanding breach of agreements , drawing away their people , preaching against them in their own pulpits , many high and strange carriages , yet still using all fairenesse and love , hoping by brotherly kindnesse , forbearance and a thorow reformation in the church , ( wherein they have been willing upon all occasions to gratifie and have respect to their consciences ) at last to have gained them . ☞ o the faithfulnesse , dutifulnesse , patience , long-suffering , forbearance of the presbyterians ; their dutifulnesse , and patience in waiting upon the parliament ; their faithfulnesse in not abating in their zeale and respects to them ; o their love , kindnesse and tendernesse to the independents , yea to other secta●ies also who have had something of christ and grace in them , and have not fallen into errours and blasphemies , razing the foundation . but now on the other hand the sectaries ( though a contemptible number , and not to be named at the same time with the presbyterians ) have not waited upon the parliament and assembly for the reformation , but preached against it , and stirred up the people to imbody themselves , and to joyne in church fellowship , gathering churches , setting up independent government , reb●ptizing and dipping many hundreds ; and upon any thing that hath been voted by the assembly , parliament , that hath crossed them ( though alas , few orders or ordinances which have reference to the sectarries , or are against their minds , have little life in them , or are put into execution ; witnesse that ordinance against mens preaching who are not ordained ministers , witnesse that ordinance about printing , cum multis aliis , lay-men never preaching so much , no● so openly as since the ordinance , and all kind of erroneous wicked books printed , dispersed as much as before , they have put forth books against the parliament , assembly , preached against them , and their proceedings , the directorie , ordinance against preaching of persons not ordained , &c. talked their pleasure , that they would lay down arms , that the king would give them a toleration , that these proceedings would discourage the army , and such like ; they have not forborn prin●ing of answers to books , petitions , passages in letters , or other things which might make for their cause , because the parliament did not like them , or had forbid them , there 's nothing that may make for the furthering of their way , but they do it , parliament , assembly , citie , kingdome say what they will to the contrarie . and as their carriage hath been thus to the parliament , so they have and do all kind of wayes within their power , wrong and abuse the godly orthodox ministers and people , vilifying , sleighting , and scorning them , raising up all kinds of evill reports , and casting reproaches on them , requiting them for all their love and kindnesse , with preaching against them in their owne pulpits , stealing away their people from them , labouring by all means , in places where they have any power or interest , to keep good ministers out of such churches , and presbyterians out of all offices and employments ; yea , in many places where they have power , they study and watch to throw out by one wile or other , godly ministers who are against their way , detaining their dues , vexing of them , and making their lives bitter unto them , domineering and abusing the godly orthodox partie , yea , using all policie and industrie to get themselves into all chiefe places of power and command , that so they may trample upon and crush them . o had the sectaries been in the place of the presbyterians , and the presbyterians in theirs , and they so dealt with by the presbyterians , as the presbyterians have been by them , i know what they must have expected from them : i dare appeale to everie ordinarie common understanding , yea , to the conscience of the sectaries themselves , whether if they had had the parliaments of both kingdomes , the assemblies and ministers , the churches and pulpits , the representative body of this citie ; and the people and wee had been as few as they were in the three first yeares of the parliament , would they have suffered us to preach in their owne churches against them and their way , to have from time to time confuted their doctrine , to have preached up another government and way , against what the parliament had voted and was a setling , to have enjoyed speciall lectures in principall places , to promote a way contrarie to theirs , to have drawne away their people and maintenance from them , to have fallen upon the practice of setting up prebyteriall churches and government , classicall , synodicall , in citie , countrey , to have printed freely against their way , and used all meanes to have rendred them odious among the people , would they have sate still , and gone without places and offices of honour , power , profit , and suffered the presbyterians a small partie , to get into court , armies , committees , &c. to increase to such a number , such a strength and head , as to possesse most places of command in the field , and in the strongest garrisons and forts ? as also civill offices both of power and profit , yea , to have a pluralit●e of places and offices ? would the sectaries , if they had been two * powerfull armies , consisting of commanders and souldiers for their way , under generals after their owne heart , have born those things at the hands of presbyterians , which presbyterians have done from them ? o no , they would never have endured the hundredth part of those wrongs , discouragements , injuries ; had the assembly consisted of independents , excepting a matter of eight or nine presbyterians , would they have endured that , and put up that from the presbyterian partie , as the assembly hath done from the independent ? suffered them to spin out time so long , to speak those things in the assembly some of them have ; and in stead of bringing in ( according to order ) the whole frame of their judgements concerning church-government in a body , with their grounds and reasons , to bring in a remonstrance , casting dirt upon them and their proceedings ? would they in new-england endure one or more presbyterians to live among them , and to go up and downe their countrey , and in chiefe towns and places to preach against , cry downe their churches and church-government , and to extoll and cry up a contrarie way , as mr. peters and others do here ? for mine owne part i am confidently perswaded , and so i beleeve are all wise men that have observed the waies of the sectaries , that if they had been in the place of the presbyterians , having had their power , number , authoritie , and the presbyterians had been a small number as they were , and should have offered to have done but the twentieth part of that in preaching , writing , &c. against them , which the sectaries have done against the presbyterians , they would have trod them downe as mire in the street , casting them out with scorn before this time of day , not have suffered a presbyterian to preach among us , or to have been in any place or office , militarie or civill , but all would have been shut up in prisons , banished , or else hiding themselves in holes and corners : many godly persons in some places having much ado now to hold up their heads , to live by them , to preach quietly , to go safely in the streets , and to be quiet in their houses . and for conclusion of the differerence in the carriage and behaviour of the presbyterians and the sectaries , the righteous lord judge between them , and recompence to the presbyterians according to their kindnesse , love , peaceablenesse , forbearance and righteousnesse ; and the lord forgive the sectaries , and turn their hearts , and cause their folly , insolencies , unrighteousnesse , and unjust dealings with their brethren , to be so manifest to themselves and all men , as they may proceed no further . now for the particular practices of the sectaries they are many , and it would require a tractate by it selfe to set them downe ; indeed i hardly know any strange practice that hath reference to their wayes , but some or other of them are guiltie in one kind or another . most of their practices and wayes may be referred to these ten heads ; to loosnesse and libertie in life and conversation . to covetousnesse , ambition , and self-seeking . to policies and subtiltie . to activenesse , sedulitie and numblenesse in the prosecution of their way . to tumultuousnesse , disorder and confusion . to the disturbance and overthrow of oeconomicall , ecclesiasticall , and pol●ticall relations and government . to insolencies , pride , and arrogancie . to acts of immodesty and incivilitie . to power and will , carrying all before them , and throwing downe all that stands in their way . to hypocrisie under pretences of pietie and holinesse . now for the particular practices of the sectaries , i had drawne up many , to the number of seventie , and provided for everie practice instances for proofe , and upon some of them i could write a large discourse , even a book upon severall of them ; as of their behaviour and carriage towards the parliament , the kingdome of scotland , the assembly of divines , the citie of london , the ministerie of england , yea of all the reformed churches , as of their seeking and getting into all sorts of offices and places they are any way capable of ( being sequestratours , collectours , receiv●rs , surveyours , excisers , customers , secretaries , clerks , &c. getting places in court , great townes , dwelling in sequestred houses freely , procuring arreares , &c. not a man almost of late coming into any place or office , but an independent , or independentish , there being no kind or sort of preferment , employment , place , but some or other of that way enjoy ) as of their plotting and labouring from the first yeare of the wars , to get into their hands the sword and power of armes , by having a considerable army , which they might look upon more particularly , as theirs , and of their way , by attempting to remove and heave at many gallant commanders , to get the command of the strongest garrisons and places , yea to make townes of consequence that were no garrisons to have been garrisons , as yarmouth ; but i am necessitated for divers reasons , to passe by wholly for the present many of their practices , and others to name only , desiring the reader as hee goes along , to supply the defect , by calling to mind all particulars he knowes and hath heard of upon the severall heads . . practice . they use to ascribe and attribute all the successe of things , all that is done in field , at leaguers , all victories , brave actions , to their partie , crying them up in pulpits , news-books , conferences , calling them the saviours of the kingdomes ; and for this purpose they have certaine men that are criers and trumpetters between the armie , citie , and countrey , who trumpet forth their praises , giving them the titles of terrible , &c. a large book would not containe the relation of all the victories , glorious actions , exploits having been given to the armie called independent . . practice . they give out and boast their partie to be more and greater than they are ; some of them will speak in all places , as if all were theirs , all for them ; they have given out , as if parliament , armies , citie of london , countrey , all the godly , wise , judicious understanding men , were theirs , and will be theirs : yea , that the assembly , the french churches , the commissioners of the church of scotland thought well of their way ; and so of particular persons that are prime men , they have given out , as if they were , or are coming over to them . some of them have bragg'd that sir thomas fairfax , that v●liant victorious commander in chief of the parliament forces began to have some glimmering of new light ; and i can prove letters have been written over to some of their partie in holland , that mr. marshall was turned independent ; they use to boast of their friends in the house of commons , and they will acquaint their friends in the house of commons ; and they brag of a toleration , giving out their friends in the house of commons , have said they shall have a toleratio● ; and they boast thus to awe persons , and to make men afraid to speak against them , or to oppose them ; but rather to adhere to them who are so powerfull , and have so many on their side . . practice . they appropriate to themselves the name of the godly and well-affected partie , the title of saints , calling themselves the saints , that they only preach jesus christ , and though they be anabaptists , seekers , &c. yet they are the saints : this is common in printed books , petitions , sermons , discourses ; what , speak against the saints ? be against a toleration for the saints ? meaning themselves only . . practice . they pretend one thing , when they intend quite another , and it is usuall for them to pretend the publike good , the benefit of the state , when it is evident they intend their owne interest , and strengthen of their partie ; they pretend peace , love , forbearing of all names of difference , to make the presbyterians secure , negligent , and to forbeare all means of setling things , and yet at the same time go quite contrarie , using all means and waies for promoting their own partie , as they did after the losse of leicester . . practice . what themselves are most faultie in , that they will charge upon others , the presbyterian mi●isters and people , as making d●visions , & wanting love , as breaking the peace , and causing mis-rules , tumults as be guilty of persecution , when as 't is evident to all the world , they are most faulty in these particulars , and in many more , and for the proof of it i iould demonstrate it in a hundred instances . . practice . they do on purpose ( having got churches void ) keepe manie churches without ministers , seeke out for none , stop ( all they can ) orthodox ministers from coming in , which they do for two reasons , . that so they may pay no tithes : . that so they may have the liberty of the pulpits for all kinde of sectaries , and mechanick preachers , who come from london , the armies , and other places to preach in and corrupt the people , and that the people being as sheep without a shepherd , may be more easily now drawne away to error and schisme ; and of this practice there are many sad examples in hartfordshire , bucking , essex , and that in some great market-townes , as chesham , where thousands of souls are . . practice . they have laboured and do by all waies to have no church-government at all setled in this kingdome , but to keep it out . or secondly , if there must be any , yet to have a defective , imperfect loose government and reformation , that may not be able to do the worke , that so others may fall off to their way the more ; and for proof of this , they have refused to joyn for a pure full reformation in points according to their own principles , that so one good might not hinder a greater good ( as was expressed ) and have opposed to the utmost a thorow presbyteriall reformation . . they have laboured to get a toleration granted before the government be setled , to get an exception before the rule was made , and if once they had gotten that , let the presbyterians get the government then when they could , and this they stirred in , and sought to effect last winter . . seeing they could not do this , but this policy was espied , they labour for a toleration together with a reformation , that the church-government and a toleration might be borne and brought forth together as twins in one day , and so go hand in hand , and this they are labouring for now , the monster of toleration conceived in the wombe of the sectaries long ago , they having growne big with it ever since , are now in travell to bring it forth , and till they could be ready and get things fitted for a toleration , they bestirred themselves so against the london petitions , that of september , those of november , lest government should be setled before a toleration , and therefore one of them said to some citizens , why should you bee so h●sty for government , cannot you stay awhile ? how long said they ? to spring , said this sectarie , hoping their toleration businesse would be readie by that . . practice . in some parish-churches where the sectaries are put in , they have put downe all si●ging of ps●lms , as at elsly in cambr. s● . alberie in hartford-shire , and will not suffer the parishes to enjoy any singing of psalms ; and in other places , they begin to put down all prayer in the publike assemblies , and to say there must be onely discoursing and preaching ; and in places where they cannot prevaile to shut out singing of psalmes , they in a contemptuous manner clap on their hats , in the time of singing of psalms , and having been pull'd off , put them on again ; yea in prayer also many of them keep on hats . . practice . they send forth into severall counties of this kingdome , from their churches in london , as church-acts , severall emissaries members of their churches , to preach and spread their errours , to dip , to gather and settle churches ; they are not content with their owne meetings on lords-daies , week-daies , keeping constant lectures in set places , for all to come to that will , thereby poisoning many in the city , but they endeavour the leavening of all the counties , as i might give instances of lam , kiffin , with many others sent abroad , yea , of some sent into the north as farre as york . . they have appointed and kept disputations from towne to towne in the countrey , giving out the time , places and questions they will dispute of , as of poedob●ptisme , the ministery of the church of england , &c. and agree among themselves that some of them shall seem to be for poedob●ptisme , and in the disputation 't is maintained at first eagerly by some of their party against others of them who oppose it ; but then after long and great disputation at last they confesse they are by the evidence of truth convinced , and before all the people , give glorie to god that now they see the truth ; whereby the people seeing them who pleaded for poedobaptisme confessing their errour and yeelding , ( they knowing nothing of this precontract and deceit ) they also stumble , question and fall ; yea , and to spread their errours the more in some great towne where some of the sectaries being souldiers have been quartered , they have desired the use of severall houses of persons well-affected , that in the afternoon some christians might meet to confer together of some points , not contenting themselves to reason in the house where quartered , or in any one house that might be larger to hold many , but to get a new house every day , the more to infect and possesse the people with their waies and tenets . . all things that have fallen out and do in the kingdomes , of victories , losses , o●dinances , petitions , actions , death of particular persons , of all matter in church , state , parliament , assembly , city , they make use of it one way or other to further their designe , and turne it for the furthering of their way , and against the presbyteriall government , as the businesse of dennington castle , as the losse of leic●ster , upon that framing a petition to adj●urne the assembly , with other particulars which i cannot now mention . . some of the sect●ri●s plead miracles , revelations , visions , for their way , and to confirme their doctrine , as some anabaptists at yorke for their rebaptization , that being baptized in the winter in the river ouse the water was as hot as if it had beene in the midst of summer ; as healing the sicke with the anointing of oyle ; as giving out , christ appeared to an anab●ptist , and forbade her to baptize her child , of which the reader may read more in the second letter . . they are wont upon the coming forth of books against their way , which they see take with wise men , and for which both their opinions and themselves suffer , to give out they shall be answered , and are answering of them , to keep the people in heart till they be forgotten , and the speech of the booke over , of which i could give many instances ; and so upon the new modell ( when in stead of bringing that in to the assembly , they brought in pretended reasons why not ) they suffered much in the esteem of all unprejudiced men , speaking they durst bring in none because of the weaknesse of their way ; then severall sectaries gave it out in many places and to many ( as i can prove it , and name persons too ) that the modell was a printing , it was certainly in the presse , and all the world should see it . . they have done and practised many strange things in reference to baptisme of children , dressing up a cat like a child for to be baptized , inviting many people both men and women as to baptizing of a child , and then when neighbours were come , having one to preach against baptizing of children ; they have baptized many weakly ancient women naked in rivers in winter , whereupon some have sickned and died ; they have baptized young maids , citizens daughters , about one and two a clock in the morning , tempting them out of their fathers houses at midnight to be baptized ▪ the parents being asleep and knowing nothing . . they use to give great and glorious names , swelling titles , to their books they set forth , as , innocency and truth triumphing together , as , truth gloriously appearing , &c. as also to their erroneous doctrines l●id down in their books , casting upon truths of god odious names , as the ●●orming of antichrist , discovery of the man of sin , &c. their books being just like the aegyptian temples , whose outsides were beautifull and glorious , having the inscription of a deity upon them , but within nothing but a crocodile , an ape , an onion , or some such vile mean creature . . they are extreamly full of partiality in all their waies , not allowing that to others ( though far more considerable for quality , dignity ) which themselves ordinarily do , speaking against that in others which they daily practise , of which i will give a few instances ; they have cried out in pulpits , pamphlets , discourses , of the citizens , common councell , ministers , for petitioning to settle government , or humbly representing their desires : o 't is an interposing , medling , anticipating , and i know not what ! when as a few sectaries , lilburne and his fellowes , can appoint meetings , and give notice to manie to come to them at such times and places , and draw up petitions , and that strange ones too , medling with manie things before the houses , and in debate not determined , and against the known priviledges of the houses , of which i might give manie instances ; as after the losse of leicester , in the meetings of the sectaries , this was one of the clauses of their petitions , to name such and such members of the house of commons to be a comittee for the raising of the countie● , and appointing commanders , but opposed by some godly orthodox citizens ( who saw their d●ift , and observed well whom they named ) as being against the priviledges of parliament , for them a few private persons to nominate a committee of the members of parliament , as also that the assembly might be adjourned ; thus one of the pamphlets tell us among his newes , that inferiour r●presentatives ( which no man of understanding can interpret of anie but the common-councell of london ) must bee wary of medling or interposing by petitions , or gathering together , but leave all to the parliament ; but now the sectaries foure or five hundred of them they may meet together , interpose , rep●esent , may speak their pleasures of and arraign the parliament , committee of examinations , m. speaker , and other members of the house , as they did after lilburns committing , and the intelligencer will not di●c●pline them . again , they may print , preach , speak against assembly , ministerie , for independency , against presbytery , and what not ? and yet if any of them be questioned , or book stopped at presse , 't is persecution , and they cannot be heard , no● have liberty to speak for their way ; whereas the same men use all means and waies against presbyterians , preaching , printing , yea labouring to hinder their putting forth of answers and calling in answers made ; yea endeavouring to trouble those who license books against their waies : as for instance , the assembly being falsly and scandalously dealt with in a pamphlet intit . a copy of a remonstrance lately delivered in to the assembly ; the sectaries have used all their friends to hinder the printing of the assemblies answer : so manie of the sectaries at their meetings drew up a petition to the house of commons , to have mr. prynns and dr. bastwicks bookes called in , and that house to declare their sense against them , and that no such books might be writ against the godly well aff●cted partie , under the name of anabaptists , brownists , independents , and a large schedule was annexed to the petition , of offensive passages that were in m. prynns and d. bastwicks book ( i think ere long they will dare to petition , that no man shall preach against an anabaptist , or name a sectarie , or speake a word for presbyterie , but themselves may preach , print , and say what they list : ) and so in the case of the letter of the city ministers to the assembly against toleration , and in other books ; yea , and in sermons that have been against the sects , they have threatned and endeavoured to trouble and question the licensers and preachers . . they are full of plots and projects for their way , and increasing their party , they have alwaies designes on foot , they do nothing , nor propound nothing but theres some designe or other in it , they are big with many at once , that if one take not another may , if one misse they presently start another , of which i could give manie instances , and show how the hand of ioah hath been and is where 't is little thought ; they use other men upon other interests and ends to do their worke , they have waie● collaterelly and indirectly to effect their worke , when it would be marred if they went in recta linea : they can and ordinarily do go about to destroy businesses they seeme to plead for , by propounding and putting upon ways to effect it which they know are not feasible . . they have and do when put upon present exigents , yeeld to and forbear things for the present , and sometimes in appearance will seeme to go far with you , and are content to lose the fore-game , that they may play the aftergame better and recover all ; they will sometimes appeare to be yours fully till they have served their turne , giving place for a time , but still waiting opportunities , and working in the mean time all they may , and when they have counterworkt , they will fetch all about again another way , and make void all they seem'd to grant you ; and of this there are too many examples among the sectaries , manie of them taking the nationall covenant for that instant necessity , that they might worke so as in time to destroy the end and intent of it , and yeelding some arguments and debates for the present , to effect their owne ends afterwards . . they have been and are polupragmaticall , indefatigably active , stirring , restlesse night and day , in city , countrey , in all places having their agents to doe their worke and promote their ca●se : their eyes are intent upon every thing that may make for them or against them , and they have a hand in every thing , they are men of a hundred eyes and hands , out-acting , and out-working all the presbyterians , they deale with this man to take him off , and worke with another to qualifie him ; they have got most of the weekly writers of newes to plead their cause , commend their persons , cry up their actions ; they have sent emissaries to s●verall countreyes , to preach , carry letters , deale with persons for chusing of burgesses in parliament for their way , as m. peters and others ; they observe all mens tempers , humours , and accordingly deale with them all , some with offices and places , some by holding out principles suiting their lusts . . they desperately censure and judge all men , both their estates and actions , who are not for them , they presently unsaint them , and men fall from grace ipso facto by preaching or writing bookes against their errours , as m. prynne , making him worse then the late archbishop of canterbury , and so one m. e. for writing against them ; they use this phrase ( sometimes accounted a godly man ) and of m. ash , they have not only in england laboured to blast him by their censures and reports , but writ over into holland , that since he appeared against them , god had evidently blasted him , and taken away his gifts ; and lately upon reports ( raised by them no doubt ) that i was dead ( though there was not the least colour for it , not being sick at all , ) they gave it out , it was gods just judgement upon me to cut me off , for preaching and writing against the independents ; and at the same time they gave out , that m. calamy had broken his arme , and d. twisse a dying ; o saith one of their doctors of divinity , you may see the just hand of god against the presbyterians , m. edwards dead , m. calamies arme broke , and d. twisse a dying , so that if these things had been thus , we may see how they would have judged it ; and if such things had fallen to some of us , which have to many of the sectaries ( which i name not to upbraid them with , but to shew them their own folly , ) as that by the plague of pestilence our children two at a time had been taken away , as m. goodwins was upon the making his house a meeting for the sectaries , and some of our eyes put out by a pike in the street , as one of lilburns was , immediately upon his letter coming forth against m. prynne and the assembly ; and our wives stark mad , as m. peters wife , wee might have expected as bad books written of us , as were written by the papists of luther and calvin . . they take upon them more places then they can or do discharge , and bear the names of some places which they seldome officiate , and have laboured to add more places to those they have already , and that both in city and countrey , so that some of them besides their places in the assembly , which they seldom attend ( especially this last yeare ) and their private gathered churches , have divers lectures and places , besides their hanging upon great men , to preach before them to ingratiate themselves , and getting to preach at white-hall , s. iames , westminster , and other eminent places , where the great ones , earles , lords , and the grandees of the time resort ; they do not , as wee ministers sit still expecting a call to places , but they are forward men , bestirring themselves to attain this place and that , getting such great mens letters in their behalfe , using such ministers of note , and other persons of quality and power in parishes to make way for them to come in , pretending to preach for nothing , &c. and still in all these lectures and preachings , they have an eye to churches in places most convenient for thier ends , as so situated , so capacious , and to times when few or no lectures else are , as on the lords day in the morning between six and seven a clocke , all those lectures at that time of the day from stepney to westminster , they either have possession of , or have strongly laboured for them ; yea , and to have set up others on the lords dayes in the morning , at ludgat● , aldersgate , &c. if by themselves or all the friends they made , they could have effected it ; and so the lord , day in the evening , when other sermons are done , they have gotten that lecture at the three cranes ; and so the lecture on munday night , when there 's no lecture else , besides the exposition lectures on week dayes in the severall parts and quarters of this city , and new lectures in other eminent places of the city , which they have endeavoured to set up , if they could have obtained the ministers consents ; and in their places they have an eye to good pay , a hundred pound a yeare for preaching once a week in one place , and seventy pound per annum , for preaching once a fortnight at another , and a peece for a sermon as soone as they have done , and a good supper for another , and yet they will have a care to take no more paines then needs must , as m. b. having a hundred pound per annum for preaching at cripplegate on the lords day in the afternoone , could never be got to give the parish a sermon now and then on a fast day , or a day of thanksgiving , as a great friend of his in that parish , who knows , told me ; besides i could name others , who will do nothing on the fast dayes . they take upon them the names of such lectures and churches , as being chosen and nominated to them , but others of their own partie supply them , somtimes one , and somtimes another , they have one sprig or another , one emissary or other from the army , one house-bird or other to serve the places : it would make a book by it self to relate all particulars in this kind . one man of their way , besides being a member of the assembly and his a private church , hath places in norwich , yarmouth , fishstreet-hill in london . a second , besides the assembly , hath places at acton four lectures at westminster , besides his interest and share in some lectures in london . a third hath a place at stepney , cripplegate , cornhill , besides part of another lecture , and all reserves for this parliament man and the other to ingratiate himself with them . a fourth , besides the assembly , which he seldom comes to , and his particular private church , hath lectures in london , which all the last summer he seldome preached at , not preaching at one of them in the space of three quarters of a year together . and they do not only neglect their lectures in our churches , but they take to themselves more members in their owne churches then they can preach or look too , for they admit members who live constantly many miles from them , here one ten miles off , there another five miles , another sixteen miles off , some at norwich , some at yarmouth , another forty miles off ; every one of their particular churches is not a parish church , but a bishops diocesse , nay some of them are archbishopricks and provinces , far larger then the presbyterian provinces , reaching from london to dover , as d. holms , who hath severall members there , going twice or thrice a yeare thither to visit ; and in one of his visitation sermons , preaching to his members , prayed god to blesse , and remember them who had but a bit once in a quarter or halfe a year . and as this is the practice of the clergie , so the laity among the sectaries have plurality of offices and places , some have both militarie and civill , others two or three civill offices , and i could name one , who hath some five or six , besid●● his being a committee-man : in a word , our sectaries are become pluralists , non-residents , and some of them vbiquitaries , and are well paid for it , as m. peters . . they generally walk loosely and at large , over what they did before they turned s●ctaries , and in comparison of the godly presbyterians ; they do many things under pretence of christian liberty , which professours heretofore were not wont to do , nor do not , neither durst they have done , of which i could give many instances both in persons & things ; i do not know , nor hear of a sectary in england , that is so strict and exact in his life , as he was before , and as thousands of presbyterians are ; and this is not my observation alone , but a general observation : many of them play at cards and tables , are verie loose on the sabbath days , go to bowls and other sports on dayes of publike thanksgiving , as m. iohn goodwine and severall of his church , they wear strange long haire , go in such fine fashionable apparell beyond their places as 't is a shame ; they will feast , ride journeyes , do servile businesses on the fast daies , and give their parish churches no sermons , no prayers at all on those daies ; they make little conscience of family duties , they will sit and tipple , be joviall and merrie together . i could tell true and certaine stories of manie sectaries who were exceeding precise and strict before they fell into those waies , but are abominable loose now ; and let but a man turne sectarie now adaies , and within one half year he is so metamorphosed in apparell , hair , &c. as a man hardly knowes him . . in all matters and businesses which succeed not according to their mind , but crosse their waies and designes as if a choice of persons they like not be made to places , or if such a thing passe and be done that pleases them not , they will try all waies possible , and cast about to finde some fl●ws or other , pretend this thing and the other to question the election and make it null , or to obstruct it ; they will put in articles against men chosen , though they cannot prove them ; they will pretend somthing or other , was omitted , and such a passage was illegall , and all to bring to a new election , and then they will worke all kind of waies to ef●ect their designes . . they have spoken strange and high speeches against the setling of presbyteriall government and the presbyterians , as one anabaptist of late , that he hoped to see heaven and earth on fire before presbyterie should be setled ; another sectarie , that it was one of the articles of his beleefe , that within seven yeares there would not so much as the name of presbyterie be heard in england ; a third , that hee hoped to see the presbyterie as much ●rod under foot as the bishops were ; a fourth , that if the saints were thus persecuted , and could not have the libertie of their conscience , it would come to — a gentleman told me , he had heard many souldiers of a regiment of horse ( which i forbeare naming ) say , that when the army of cavaliers was overcome , there would be another army to overcome , intimating the presbyterians ; and i could relate strange speeches told me by faithfull ear-witnesses , no sleight persons , spoken against our brethren of scotland by some sectaries . . after they have set their hands to papers , as upon agreements in such and such points of difference ; as upon the receipts of money , as upon giving in what they desire , when they think such things may make against some of them , have used means to get those papers back again into their hands , and have come to those that kept them some dayes after , pretending they desired to see them , and look upon them for some reasons , and then have desired to borrow them for a few dayes , to compare these papers with theirs , or for some other use , and being lent them by presbyterians ( who are plain honest men , and not acquainted with policies ) they keep them , and cannot be entreated to returne them ag●ine , but being asked for them , pretend some excuse or other ; of which i could give instances , naming the persons and things at large , but i spare them . . they practise and endeavour to get sectaries , and those that way affected , to attend on and be about cordiall presbyterians that are of qualitie , place and power , both to observe and watch them , and to qualifie them , and do some good offices for the sectaries ; of which i could give notable instances , but i must only hint it , and leave presbyterians to their owne observation . . about the time of moulding the new army , some of the sectaries gave out where ever they came , and went from one to another , both to ministers , people , that such and such ( call them what you will ) are the men that will fight cordially for you , overcome the cavaliers , and when they have done , they will either submit to the government established , or else leave the land , you need not feare them ; and this they laboured to possesse all men with , that so without muttering or speaking against , there might the more sectaries get places in the army ; and yet we see now by experience , that upon all motions and petitions for setling the government , or against toleration , the army is spoken of : and will you discourage those that fight so bravely , and that god hath made so instrumentall to you ? and that if they may not have libertie of conscience , and libertie to preach , the army will be discouraged , and if they may not preach they will not fight ; and after victories we have been minded by letters from the army of libertie of conscience , and expecting no compulsion in matters of the mind . . they upbraid in printed books and speeches many presbyterians , particularly of the assembly , with their former conformitie , yea they brand and asperse them , that they have been great time-servers , innovators ; and this they do to make the people beleeve , that what they do now is not out of conscience , but to serve the times , and that such men are not likely to have the truth revealed to them , nor fit to have a hand in the reformation , who have so polluted themselves with corruptions in worship , and the inventions of men ; and among many , good mr. calamy hath been abominably belied in this kind , especially in that late railing pamphlet of mr. burtons , called truth still truth , though shut out of doores , whereas many of the great sectaries themselves , and principall ring-leaders in each sect , as anabaptists , antinomians , independents , &c. were not only conformists in the way of old conformitie , but great innovators and forward episcopall men , the innovations of altars , bowing at the name of jesus , reading the book of sports , causing the people to come and kneele at the rail , threatning and bringing their tender conscienced people into the spirituall courts , yea into the high-commission being practised by some of them : and i challenge the sectaries to name so many of the presbyterian partie , who appeare for that government by writing , or other wayes , to be so faultie for innovations , and serving the bishops , as i can name amongst them . the full relation of the time-serving and innovations of denn , cox , ellis of colchester , dr. holms , saltmarsh , cummins , wale of norfolk , cum multis aliis , would make a new book ; and the best of the independents will be found upon search , yea them of the assembly , not only for many yeares to have been conformists , but to have gone further in conformitie to the bishops than some of us . as for example , mr. burroughs in the times of the bishops pressing innovations , was wont to ride up and downe the countrey in a canonicall coat , and i ask him mr. bridge and mr. greenhill , whether they besides subscription , took not the oath of canonicall obedience , and gave not some monies to the repaire of pauls church in london ? whereas i , as great a conformist ( as some of the sectaries would make me to have been ) never had a canonicall coat , never gave a penny to the building of pauls , took not the canonicall oath , declined subscription for many yeares before the parliament ( though i practised the old conformitie ) would not give ne obulum quidem to the contributions against the scots , but disswaded other ministers ; much lesse did i yeeld to bow to the altar , and at the name of jesus , or administer the lords supper at a table turned altar-wise , or bring the people up to rails , or read the book of sports a , or highly flatter the arch-bishop in an epistle dedicatorie to him b , or put articles into the high commission court against any , but was my selfe put into the high commission court , and pursevants with letters missive , and an attachment sent out to apprehend me , for preaching a sermon at mercers chappell , on a fast day in iuly , . against the bishops and their faction , such a free sermon as i beleeve never a sectarie in england durst have preached in such a place , and at such a time . to conclude for this time the practices of the sectaries , it is apparent they make the propagation and advancement of their way and partie , in opposition to the presbyteriall government their supreme law ; for the eff●cting of which they have and do use all means , though dishonest and unlawfull ; they say and unsay , affirme and deny , make promises and break them , go backward and forward , and in one word , have dispensed with their most sacred principles of church-fellowship , so as such things may make for the increase and advancement of their partie , of which i could give a world of instances . ob. but it may be it will be said , what are the practices of some men , and matters of fact , to a way , it is arguments must convince men , not practices ? answ. much everie way in this , because both in printed books , pulpits and discourses , the practices of the sectaries are brought to perswade people to forsake our churches , and to come to them ; as the great holinesse , sanctitie , selfe-deniall , humilitie , innocencie of that partie , with their painfull preaching without great livings , or expecting tithes ; and on the other hand , the presbyterians are branded as men of no great pietie , holinesse , charitie , and if it were not for livings of two or three hundred pounds a year , they would turn independents : and many people are drawne more by these things , than by all their arguments . now therefore the discovering to the people nakedly and truly their practices , may undeceive them , and be as good a means to bring them back to the communion of the reformed church , as ever the false representation of them was to mis-lead them . here followes a copie of some letters , with a narration of stories and remarkable passages concerning the sectaries . the second part of gangraena : or a fresh and further discovery of the errors , heresies , blasphemies , and dangerous proceedings of the sectaries of this time . as also a particular narration of divers stories , speciall passages , letters , an extract of some letters , all concerning the present sects : together with some corollaries from all the fore-named premisses . a reply to the most materiall exceptions made by mr , saltmarsh , mr. walwyn , and cretensis , against mr. edwards late book entituled gangraena . as also brief animadversions upon some late pamphlets ; one of mr. bacons , another of thomas webs , a third of a picture made in disgrace of the presbyterians . a relation of a monster lately born at colchester , of parents who are sectaries . the copie of an hymne sung by some sectaries in stead of davids psalms . by thomas edvvards minister of the gospel . beware of false prophets which come to you in sheeps clothing , but inwardly they are ravening wolves , ye shall know them by their fruits . matth. . v. , . but shun prophane and vain bablings , for they will increase to more ungodlinesse . and their word will eat as doth a gangrene , of whom is hymeneus and philetus . tim. . , but evill men and seducers shall waxe worse and worse , deceiving , and being deceived tim. . . london , printed by t. r. and e. m. for ralph smith , at the sign of the bible in cornhill near the royall exchange . . reader , thou art presented with the second part of gangraena , declaring some other ( not infirmities of the saints , as some men speak , but ) abominations of men of corrupt minds , reprobate concerning the faith , and a vindication of those few particulars of the former treatise , which were excepted against ; the author hath proceeded in this labour , not to please himself ( what pleasure can it be to rake in a dunghill ? ) but to preserve thee ; the discovery of errours is , ( by the blessing of god ) the prevention of them , in which regard the labours of a epiphanius , b augustine , c philastrius , d theodoret , of old , of e calvin , f danus , and others of late , published for this end , have been , and are of great esteem in the church of god ; and i make no question but these labours of this author , as they now find acceptance with judicious and godly christians , so also in future times will out-live the calumnies by sectaries cast upon them , and our posterity will admire , what is by us undervalued ; let not clamours of men , who call light darknesse , and darknesse light , discourage thee from reading , it doth not mee from approving that this treatise be imprinted . imprimatur james cranford . to the christian reader . good reader , t is my lot ( so divine providence is pleased to order it ) that in my conflicts for truth , and against error , i should not enter the field and fight single combats , but encounter with many : my antapologia was an answer unto five men , esteemed gyants by many of these times ; who though they were five to one , yet by the good hand of god that was with mee in that work , i keep the field till this day , neither they nor any for them ( notwithstanding all the great threats given out ) having yet engaged against mee in that cause . now in this present booke , consisting partly of a reply , i have to do with three , a three-headed cerberus , the three-bodied monster geryon : the apologists were fair smooth men in comparison of these , their voice was the voice of jacob ; but these are hairy , rough , wilde red men , especially , cretensis : these are grown higher , are gone farther , and are more daring then the former ; and yet i doubt not but hee that then brought me off with safety and honour too , will also now stand by mee , and having delivered mee from the lion and the bear , these uncircumcised philistims , especially goliah goodwin shall be as one of them . whilest i was making this reply , had even finished it , striking off this three-headed cerberus , new heads of that monstrous hydra of sectarism sprung up , which the reader shall also find have their deaths wound too in this present book ; and yet after all these heads cut off , i expect a great red dragon having seven heads , and seven horne , and seven crowns upon his heads ; but let as many sectaries come forth as will , i shall sing with david , psal. . . though an host should encamp against me , my heart shall not fear : and besides my reply to the answers made against my book entituled gangraena , the reader shall find in this book more work for the sectaries , the second part of gangraena , a discovery of more errours , heresies , blasphemies , and proceedings of the sectaries , wherein i have not only laid down many errours , heresies , and proceedings of the sectaries not touched before , but some greater , stranger , higher heresies and blasphemies , and some that are more against the second table , and destructive to the civill lawes and peace of kingdoms , which sectaries in their pleading for tolerations seem to exempt out of the number of errours to be tolerated ; yea , i desire the reader to take notice there are some things spoken of in this present book , some blasphemies , &c. done by sectaries , that the like or worse are not to he found in any age since the coming of christ , nay i think not since the creation of the world , as that blasphemy of one * john boggis . now that the reader may the more profit by this work , and not stumble in the entrance , i shall premise three things whereby to remove a few prejudices that may be in the minds of some men , both against the matter and manner of this book . t is objected , the bringing upon the stage matters of fact , and the practices of some men against a way , is not a right course to convince a way to be naught , nor the followers of it of their errours : arguments and reasons are the way to satisfie men . answ. i have spoken to this objection in the first part of gangraena , pag. . and the reader may find more said to it in this second part , pag. , . and therefore that which i shall say here is this . such discoveries as these , are a more sensible practicall way of confutation of the sectaries to the body of the people of the kingdome , then so many syllogismes and arguments ; they can understand these when they cannot perceive an argument ; and christ himselfe , in speaking against false prophets , saith , by their fruits you shall know them : doe men gather grapes of thorns , or figs of thistles ? &c. and the apostles in their speaking against the hereticks and heresies of their times , confuted them thus by their practices and wayes : whosoeverdoes but observe the passages in the epistles of peter , jude , paul , shall finde this true . and whereas t is said by some of them , if they would do so by the presbyterians , they could show as many errours held by some presbyterians , and as bad practises , &c. and so recriminate . i answer , suppose they could , . yet there 's not the same reason in divers respects ; but i will only give one instance , namely this difference : the anabaptists , independents , &c. have their church way and government up , they are in the practice and possession of it , they may use it , and do to the utmost , to suppresse errours , scandals , in the power of censures , in admitting of none but whom the body allowes , &c. and yet in the free practise of it , and under it , all these errours grow , and men fall from one thing to another , as all men see ; but now those who are in their judgement for presbyterian government in this kingdome , they enjoy it not , have not the benefit of it to censure scandalous persons , suppresse any errors , or to do any acts of government at all , but all lies waste . . i deny that the sectaries can show men who are presbyterians ( though they want the benefit of the government ) that fall into those errours , blasphemies , practises which the sectaries doe , t is a meer flourish , they can show no such thing ; nay , i am confident that among all the presbyterian ministers and cheife members who have appeared and acted for that way , since presbyterians , the sectaries cannot instance in one man like to hundreds and thousands of their sectaries , either for errours in judgement , or loosenesse in life . . t is objected t is an unchristian way to bring mens names upon the stage , t is to much to speak against a way from the practises of some of that way , but to name men in print , and publikly to brand them , this is worse . ans. i could give many answers to justifie this , and show the examples both of fathers and the holiest , judiciousest moderne writers who practised this , as calvin in his tractate against libertines , naming quintinus , &c. and giving reasons there by way of answer to this very objection of naming men , but i cannot now insist upon it : all i will say is this , for my own part t is much against my genius and temper to do it , for naturally i do not love to offend any , or to contend with any man , but to comply and please all ; besides , i am sensible of the hatred , reproaches , dangers i am liable to for doing it , but a necessi●y is laid upon me to preserve the people , and to give them warning to beware of wolves in sheeps clothing ; and as i hold my selfe bound in conscience to write books to discover the errours and opinions of such wayes , so to name the persons of prime notorious sectaries who are sticklers , ( not of all men who are mis-led , or in some lesser matters mistaken ) and that from the example of the apostle paul , who doth not onely name the errours , wayes , but the men themselves , as hymeneus , philetus , alexander , phygellus , hermogenes , tim. . , . tim. . . tim. . , . & . , . . let no godly person be offended at my book , if the stile of it be quick and smart , and if i speak sometimes a little sharply to cretensis ; but rather let them consider how unworthily ( not onely unbecoming a christian , but a man ) hee hath dealt with mee and all presbyterians in his answer , discovering such unsufferable pride , arrogancie , scornfulnesse of spirit towards all presbyterians who fall not down to the golden calves of his opinions of imputation of faith , independency , &c. as that there seems no way left to recover him but to deal a little roundly with him , and lay open his folly ; besides , the apostle paul speaking of the cretians , who are alwayes lyars , saith , wherefore rebuke them sharply , that they may be sound in the faith . in one word , cretensis in all his answers is too like those spoken of in sam. . . that must be thrust away as thorns , because they cannot be taken with hands : the man that must touch him had need be fenced with iron and the staffe of a spear : cretensis is a man so foul-mouth'd in all kind of filthy language , that his maid had need seowr his mouth alwayes with a wisp when he goes to write any book . but to hold the good reader no longer in the porch , let we earnestly intreat thy prayers to god for his gracious assistance , protection , supporting of him who is resolved to spend and be spent , and to run all hazzards for the truth of god and his churches● against the errours of the times ; yea , and if he be offered up upon the sacrifice and service of your faith , he joyes , and will rejoyce . thine in christ , thomas edwards . the preface . christian reader , although there be already at the presse a full reply to the pretended answers made by mr. saltmarsh , mr. walwyn , and mr. iohn goodwin , against my late book entituled gangraena ; yea , and some part thereof printed ; yet considering not only the three bodied monster geryon , and the three headed cerberus , which for present i have to grapple and conflict withall , but that hydra also , ready to rise up in their place , therefore that i may both mortally wound the heads of these dragons , and cut off others as they are springing , and strike once for all in defence of gangrena : my reply cannot but be somewhat large , and so of necessity must take up more time for the perfecting and publishing of it ( especially considering my imployments in frequent constant preaching , besides all other occasions ) then at this time i am contented to be kept from coming abroad in print . and therfore for preventing the sectaries glorying , and triumphing too much in their answers , and their possessing many people against my book , as if it were a book of lies , and that i could not make proof of , or give a good account to the world of what i have written ; as also from interpreting my silence ( though but during a time simply necessary to give a full answer ) a repenting of writing my late book and a retreating from that cause wherein i have so much appeared ( as master a walwyn seems to do ) i have thought it necessary in the interim , till my larger reply can come forth , to set forth a few sheets to declare my mind to all the world , and to take away all just occasion from men of speaking against my late book : now this book being of the same nature and kind with gangraena , besides a breif answer to some main objections made against it , is not only an addition of more errours to the former catalogue , a higher discovery of the wayes and practises of the sectaries , a further confirmation of the truth of things contained in gangraena , but an assurance to the reader of my resolution and constancie , by the grace of god , in opposing errours and sects maugre all the malice , wrath and power of hell ; as also a satisfaction in part to the most materiall things objected by master saltmarsh , mr. walwyn , mr. goodwin , against my book ; and as i am perswaded this discourse will not be without its use for the present , so i question not when my full reply to these three pamphlets shall come abroad ( of which this book is the fore-runner , and prepares the way ) not only all rationall and unprejudiced men , who shall read and consider , will be satisfied by it ; but my antagonists will be laid so open and bare , as their folly and shame shall be manifested to al men , and themselves and their friends for them will wish a hundred times they had been asleep in their beds when they medled with gangraena ; yea gangraena , and this defence of it will prove so incurable a gangren to them , that they shall never be cured of it by all the mountebanck quacksalving drugs and tricks of all the sectaries of this time ; and though for a short time confident lying may please and take with many , yet as solomon speaks , the lip of truth shall be established for ever , but a lying tongue is but for a moment ; and as hierom. mendacia ad modicum placent , sed diu non durant . a fresh and further discovery of the errours and pernicious practises of the sectaries in england . having laid down in my book entituled gangraena , . errors vented in these times , besides an addition of some errours mentioned in the appendix , and not enumerated in the former catalogue . i do here further present the reader with a catalogue of more errours not before named , neither , in the first , nor second edition of my book : as also a relation of more stories and practices , together with some new letters concerning them ; by all which it will appear that the plague of sectarisme rages more and more , putting forth symptoms presaging death and destruction both to church and state , if not timely prevented . additionall errours to the former catalogue of errours , heresies , &c. that no opinion is so dangerous or hereticall as that of compulsion in things of religion . . that kingly government among nations and common-wealths is unlawfull , and that for kings it cannot be said to what use they serve , or that there is any use of them , except to debauch and vexe a people . . it is unlawful for christians to eate any swines flesh in regard the devils once entred into the herd of swine . . 't is unlawfull to eate any manner of blood in any kind of thing whatsoever , and that black-puddings are unhallowed meat , and that the eating of black-puddings is a barbarous custome . . that the devils never sinned , nor have any sin . . that iudas , cain , and all the damned , yea all the devils shall be saved at last ; and that there are no hell torments to eternity . . christ hath repented perfectly , he hath sorrowed for sin perfectly , and he hath repented for us . . faith is not to be the guide of reason , but reason the guide of faith , nor is a man to beleeve any thing in scripture , further then he sees reason to induce him . that children of beleevers have more then a faederall holinesse , an inward reall holinesse . . christs presence in heaven , or that christ is present in heaven , cannot be proved by the scriptures . . some of the sectaries do affirm and hold they have not only had revelations , but they have seen visions also . . the means of god revealing himself and his mind and will to his servants in reference to their salvation , is immediatly by himself , without scripture , without ordinances , ministers , or any other means . . that 't is unlawfull to give thanks to god after meat received , though it be lawfull to do it before eating of meat . . that singing of davids psalms is blasphemy , and telling of lies . . that there is no justification by faith , but faith is only a manifestation of our justification . . that repentance is a work of the law , and so not to be performed by christians ; and that christians have nothing to do at all , but only to sit still , hear and beleeve . . some sectaries hold they cannot sin , but if they sin , christ sins in them , he does all , they are acted by him in all . . all set times of private prayers as morning and evening , &c. are not only unlawfull and superstitious , but they are not to pray at all , nor give thanks , nor confesse sin , but admire only the grace of god , that is all they must doe . . that hell-fire never had been , if jesus christ had not come . . that jesus christ delivered never a soul from hell-fire . . that all appointed set meetings of many christians to pray , hear , confer , or perform any holy service , whether in a church way , or out of a church way , are unwarrantable , and unlawfull , only occasionally if christians meet in a street , or at a house going to visit friends in civility , they may discourse and talk one with another in points of religion as they do of other matters . . that in the first conversion of a sinner there ought to be no sorrow nor repentance for sinne , god requires none at all . . that some beleevers are as perfect here , as ever they shall be in heaven , only they do not see the lord here with their bodily eyes . and for a conclusion of this matter , namely for the enumeration of additionall errours , i shall adde only this which i received from the mouth of a godly minister , who ha●ing conversed with some sectaries that are souldiers and troopers , gave me this answer , march . upon a question propounded by me what strange opinions do they hold . they hold ( saith he ) all opinions whatsoever that are against the power of godlinesse , and the honour of christ. an extract of a letter lately sent me from a learned and godly minister in essex . good m. edwards , i thank you for your book : oates whom you mention in your book , hath been sowing his tares , boolimong , and wild oates in these parts these five weeks without any controll , hath seduced hundreds , and dipped many in booking river and when that 's done he hath a * feast in the night , and at the end of that the lords supper . all opera tenebrarum . no magistrate in the country dare meddle with him , for they say they have hunted these out of the country into their dens in london , and imprisoned some , and they are released , and sent like decoy ducks into the country to fetch in more ; so that they go on in divers parts of essex with the greatest confidence and insolencie that can be imagined . m. archer of halsted preaches boldly against parliament , assembly , directory , ministery and all : i pray you let me hear whether there be any hope of light shining out of darknesse , ellis an antinomian , brother to ellis of colchester the independent , married a widow , got two hundred pounds of hers , made her beleeve hee would carry her to his friends in the north , but left her by the way , and ranne away with the two hundred pounds . that miscreant seduced many . your book doth much good : i shall pray god to speed your plough , who am your assured friend an extract of a letter written to me last week from a learned and godly minister in colchester , together with a relation of a monster lately born there of parents who are sectaries . sir , i have sent you in this enclosed , the true story of the monstrous birth in our town . i thank you for your book : the sectaries rage at it , but it is a sign it doth the more good . thus beseeching the great god to continue your courage and resolution for his name to the utmost , i rest . your affectionate brother in the lord. memorandum , that upon the . day of febr. . one goodwife cosens of peter parish in colchester brought forth two children both dead , the one a perfect child the other was born without a head , having upon the breast some characters of a face , nose , and eyes , wanting one arme and the other arme being rather the stump of an arme , ended in a crotch of two fingers , with something like a thumb coming out of one side of it : downward one of the feet was perfect , the other foot wanted a heel , and had only two toes which grew forward , and another toe growing out of one side of it . the father of this monster is a separatist , frequenting their congregations an enemy to the baptising of his own chi●dren ; the mother a hearer in the separated congregations likewise , who resolved heretofore , that if ever she had any more children , they should never be baptized . ☞ this relation is affirmed by those of trust and understanding , that saw this monster , and know the parties . an extract of a letter sent me from a * commander now in the parliament service , dated decemb. . . sir , the constant practise of many officers and souldiers with them , was to exclaime against their ministers wheresoever we marched , pressing them and their adherents more then any other ; they did dscourage the people , generally affirming that the best of our preachers were popish , and that it was unlawfull to heare them , but did hope to see them all * pact to rome , and their superstitious steeple-houses puld down to the ground ; great variety of opinion was amongst our officers and souldiers , some affirming that they had had revelations and seen visions , al of them at liberty to argue and hold what phantasticall opinion they pleased , those were the men most countenanced , and soonest raised to preferment ; some of them would take upon them to prophesie , ☞ saying , they should live to see all lording power laid aside in this kingdom . in my distresse when the enemy was upon me , i sent to most parts adjacent for assistance , but could have none , only from one place came to me forty volunteers , with some two or three officers , professing thenselves all independents , and they told me they hoped to finde me so , and if i should continue still in my opinion for presbytery , they thought their labour ill spent ; they staid with me all night , and the next day there came to them a leiutenant , a most dangerous fellow , maintaining most horrid opinions , as you may see by the information which is truth ; this lieutenant was to preach to them in a private house , which i had notice of , and did prevent him , which they took very ill of me , and immediatly they left me , and marched away with lieutenant — since , one of the chiefest of them sent me word by our quarter-master , that i should have little or no pay , so long as i staid in — if i did not agree and side with — i finde the m●●sage too true , for i finde little pay or none . sir , i could say much more of their practises against me and others , but i should be too tedious ; but this more i shall adde , i never marched where i heard more talk of godlynesse , and lesse practise of it in my observation , for they are cruell without mercy , covetous without ☞ measure , professing self-deniall , yet leave no stone un-turned to advance there estates and honours . the lord prevent their wicked designes , and keep this kingdom from being ruined by such a wicked people , sir , i rest . your servant a relation of some passages of a great sectarie , a lieutenant about the beginning of june last . . having had much arguing with him and his adherents in opposition to the antinomian way , in the morning wherein they seemed to glory much in the victorie , though i know no cause for it at all : the lieutenant came courteously towards even in to my house ( as he said ) to take his leave of me ; which some of his party perceiving , followed him ; and others taking notice of their resort , followed also : the subject of our discourse was about the meanes of god revealing himself , and his minde and will to his servants in reference to their salvation ; he affirmed and maintained violently that god did it immediatly by himself without scripture , without ordinances , ministers , or any other meanes ; he being asked about the third person in the trinity , denyed there was any such thing as a trinity of persons , but affirmed them to be three offices ; and being demanded what he thought of christ , whether the godhead and manhood were united in one person in heaven : he answered only to the last word , and denyed that it could be proved by the scriptures christs presence in heaven ; and when some scriptures were produced , which had reference to his resurrection and ascention , he replyed , that it was a great question , whether there was a resurrection or not ; he said he did not deny it absolutly , but that he made a great question of it : at the parting , before him i replyed to the by-standers , gentlemen , if i should have come and a told you that this gentleman had denied the trinity of persons , and christs presence in heaven ▪ and that he called in question the resurrection , you would not have beleeved me , had not your own eares heard the same . this is attested and subscribed by the hand of a godly minister in whose persence all this was ●pken , together with a relation of the names of the other ●●●nesses , persons of quality and worth , who were all present at this discourse , and i have the originall in my power to porduce upon any occasion . a relation of some stories , and remarkable passages concerning the sectaries . there is one lawrence clarkson , a seeker , spoken of in my gangraena , pag. , and . who put forth a pamphlet called the pilgrimage of saints , wherein are many passages highly derogatory to the scriptures , denying them to be the rule of a christian , or that in doctrine or practise half of gods glory was revealed as yet ; this man a taylor and a blasphemer preached on the lords day , march eight , at bow-church in cheapside , in the afternoone : he began his prayer to god , with right honourable lord god , and in his prayer he prayed that god would blesse the kings army , and blesse the saints both in the parliaments army and the kings , his sermon was a rapsody of nonsence . this was not done in a corner , but in a great and full audience ; there was present at this sermon one member of the house of commons , if not more , besides divers other persons of quality ; and though this clarkson was in london some time after this , and may be still for ought that i know , yet was he never questioned , nor called to any account for this , or for his pilgrimage of saints , as ever i could learn. saturday , march●he ●he seventh , a minister who preached at martins near white-hall , told me , that lately since my book came forth , he preaching in a sermon against sin and the divell , a woman on the morrow came to him ( a nurse-keeper dwelling in clare street ) and questioned with him about his sermon , asking him his grounds for speaking of sin and the divell , the minister brought some places of scripture , shee sleighted the scriptures , and denied there was any such thing as sin , or hell , or the divell , or temptation , or the holy ghost , or scriptures ; shee said , all the hell that was , was the darknesse of the night ; she denied that to kill a man , to commit adultery , or steale a mans goods was sin ; and the minister asking her , what do you make your self , shee answered two severall times , i am that i am ; all this , and a great deal more , was related to me by the minister , who ( as he said ) had acqainted an earle with it and many others ; and i spake with one citizen who heard this relation from him , and he promised to give it me at large in writing under his hand . tuesday march . on the day that a committee of lords and commons came down to guild-hall to the common-councell concerning their late petition ; many sectaries from all parts of the city and suburbs , came to guild-hall , where , from about four a clock , till about nine , the sectaries in severall companies and knots in the hall , . . and more in some companies , vented boldly , and pleaded for all sorts of opinions , the antinomian opinions , the anabaptisticall opinions , &c. pleading for a generall toleration of all sects , yea , some maintained that no immortall spirit could sin , or be capable of sin ; and it being objected , what say you to the divels ? they denied the divels ever sinned or could sin : many other horrid opinions were maintained at the same time , so that 't is beleeved , that never since guild-hall was built , there was so much wickednesse and errour broacht and maintained openly in it as at that time . among many godly orthodox christians , who were at that time in guild-hall , and opposed the sectaries in their pleading thus for all errours , and a generall tolleration ; there was one godly citizen who told me this story of himsef , that he reasoning with severall of the sectaries against their opinions , and against a toleration , the next day being the eighteenth of march , an independent wollen draper to whom he had workt almost twenty years , took away his work from him , and said he should have no more work of his , because the night before this citizen had argued against independency , saying it was a schisme ; whereupon this citizen dealt plainly with this wollen-draper , and told him , sir , will you put me by my work , which is my living , for my conscience ? is not this persecution ? will you have your consciences , and shall not we enjoy ours ? would you be tolerated , and will not you tolerate us ? on the ninteenth of march a pamphlet called the last warning to all the inbitants of the citie of london , came abroad in print , which pamphlet speaks against all kingly government , receiving the king in again , and against all established ecclesiasticall government , besides many other dangerous passages in it : now this book was spread abroad and dispersed up and down by sectaries , as for instance , one samuel fulcher an egge-man , rebaptized by one crab , a felt-maker , was the . day of march examined before a justice of peace for spreading this book call'd the last warning to london , and confessed he had sold six or seven of them * one overton an independent book-seller and a member of mr. iohn goodwins church , or his man for him , sold many of them to severall persons as i can prove : one calvert a sectary and a book-seller on ludgate-hill sold and dispersed many of these books ; and so one barber an anabaptist boasted two dayes after the book came forth , naming this pamphlet , that there was a book come forth had cut the legs of the presbyterian government , and asked a citizen if he had not seen it . in n●rthampton-shire a great sectary , and a chief servant to a knight of that country , would not keep the day of thanksgiving for the victory at naseby , but was so far from keeping it himself , that he would not suffer the knights tenants to keep it , or to go to church but made them carry dung all day , as i have been informed from one who knows it certainly ; but what do i relating one instance , when as 't is notorious that many of the sectaries , ( mr. goodwins and mr. saltmarshes saints ) keep not at all , neither dayes of publike thanksgivings , nor of publike fasts , but do all kind of s●rvile work and worldly businesses on those dayes , yea on the publike fast dayes , feast and are eating of rost meat and good chear , when gods saints and servants are humbling and afflicting their souls ? ☞ there is an independent minister who lives in london ( as i have it from two sufficient witnesses that heard it ) said that the scots coming into england would hinder the reformation of religion here , and that if he had been in england at that time when the scots came first in , he would have preached to have stird up the people against them , either not to have suffered them to come in , or being come in , to have beat them out . ☞ the same minister discoursing and reasoning about the church way , it was answered to him by a citizen , that if it were set up in london , the independents could not expect above a twentieth part should be for it , and what should become of all other people ? this independent minister replied , it was no matter what became of them , though they turned mahumetans , so the church of christ might prosper . a godly minister who came out of essex , related to me not long since , that * oates was now preaching in that country , and had been there about sixe weeks , sometimes keeping his randevouze at one town , sometimes at another , sometimes at tarling , sometimes at bocking , sometimes at braintry , and other places , and that many loose persons of the country follow him , he preaching besides his anabaptisticall opinions , the arminian points ; and this minister spake it upon his knowledge ▪ that notorious whoremongers and drunkards follow him , such as have been convicted by witnesses , and taken notice of by the country , and are such still , yet go after him where he preaches from place to place . there are two gentlemen of the inns of court , civil and well disposed men , who out of novelty went to hear the women preach , and after mistris attaway the lace-woman had finished her exercise , these two gentlemen had some discourse with her , and among other passages she spake to them of master milton● doctrine of divorce , and asked them what they thought of it , saying , it was a point to be considered of ; and that she for her part would look more into it , for she had an unsanctified husband , that did not walk in the way of sion , nor speak the language of canaan ; and how accordingly she hath practised it in running away with another womans husband , is now sufficiently known to mr. goodwin and mr. saltmarsh , and is one of the lyes like all the rest in mr. edwards gangr●ena ; this wretched woman one of mr. goodwins and mr. saltm●rshes saints ( as they make all without any distinction , whom i speak of in gangraena ) among other new truths and glorious lights , preached , that all the devils should be saved , alledging that place in zachary , sending forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein there is no water , against which doctrine one of the company objected , and said , sister , what say you to that of matth. . depart from me yee cursed into everlasting fire , prepared for the divel and his angels ? unto which mistris attaway replyed , that by everlasting in that place was meant while day and night lasted , but not eternall after day and night were ended . march . two honest citizens coming to me about some sermons an independent minister had preached in london , one of them told me he lately had a man and maid-servant who were anabaptists , and that when he was abed they would set up and juncket together , making sack-possets and such like provision of his purse , and in sum , this male anabaptist got the female anabaptist with child , and after married her : the master speaking to him of breach of covenant , how he had covenanted not to marry in the time of his apprentiship till his years were expired , he said it was a divelish covenant , and so would not keep it . on the sixteenth of march , a member of the assembly of divines related this following story for a certain truth , which he knew to be so , only would not name the persons ; that a sectary , ( one of master goodwins and master saltmarshes saints and beleevers ) a seeker by sect , sought to gain the good will of a virgin to be his wife , and when she consented and was contented to it , hee propounded that they might lie together at nigh● , at which motion she startled , saying , not till we are married , to which answer this seeker replyed , that marriage was but an idle ceremony , they were now man and wife before god , having promised one another , whereupon they went to bed together , and next morning after the seeker had satisfied his lust , he ranne quite away , and left his bride , and instead of one seeker there were two , the daughter thus forsaken , and her mother ( who was widdow ) to seek after him . in a book lately printed , call'd the ordinance for tyths dismounted , ( which book also was given into the hands of one parliament man ( as i can prove ) by a great sectary who may justly be thought the author of it ) there are such passages of reproach against the parliament as are not to be paralled in any writings , except some of the sectaries : in pag. . , . . this sectarie speaking of a passage in the ordinance of tyths made by the lords and commons , hath these following words , had not such a passage gone under the title of the lords and commons who are chosen for the weale of the people , i should not have judged it an act of humanity , but rather the result of an hell-bred conspiracy by the divell and his angels to confound us with their unreasonable malice , &c. and this was the first stone these master-builders laid in their blessed reformation . and in another place of the book , speaking by way of scorne , calling it that most religious and spirituall ordinance for the supper , as absolute ordinances , as unalterable at the directory , these words are brought in , for indeed at the first on set it was not policy to rush such a diabolicall and villanous invention point blanck upon us , with an it is decreed and ordained by the lords and commons assembled in parliament . but after a more mysterious manner of ordination , slily intrude it upon us unawares in the godly and specious vizor of rules & directions , as if our parliament men had such a spirituall and holy eare over us , to give us such wholsom and pious directions , while indeed under this innocent apparition in the shape of lambs they ar● no other then ravening wolves , rending and tearing us in peeces ; and again , speaking of parliament men in that ordinance for tyths dismounted there are these words , but what they are , let all the people judge , let them consider whether there can be the least dram of honesty or religion in them , or respect to the liberty of the free-borne nation therein , seeing they lay upon us a heavier yoake then ever was laid upon us in the dayes of the bishop● . and again , this sectary , the author of the ordinance for tyths dismounted , speaks thus of the parliaments ordinance concerning suspending scandalous persons from the lords supper . it will be the greatest thraldome and bondage that ever the kingdome was involved into , and by this ordinance of the supper , i am afraid we shall all go supperlesse to bed : and speaking of the classes synods , calling them high commissions , he addes , if we can finde no justice there , we may appeal ( forsooth ) * to our gods themselves , the parliament ( life everlasting , world without end ) of whom , how may we expect mercy or justice then , that thus before hand whip us with the stings of scorpions , and grind us between the devouring jawes of such develish tyrannicall courts which will even crush our bones in peeces , and squeese out our very marrow and juyce , and suck out our very hearts blood like so many greedy cannibals ? vid. plur . ibid. the sectaries generally cannot endure any man who speaks against , or complains to authority of any who b●oach errours ( though never so great ) as for example , a godly understanding christian told me within these three dayes , that because he complained of a man who denies both the son and the holy ghost to be god , therefore the independents and all the sectaries among whom he lives deadly hate and revile him ; and since the time that the weekly newes books have mentioned a vote to be passed in the house of commons for drawing up an ordinance against paul best that anti●rinitarian and blasphemer , some of the sectaries have spoken boldly and bitterly against it , and saying they would be loth to be any of them that should give a voice , or have a hand in the proceedings against him , with other words to that effect . there is an independent of mr. carters church , who speaking against our publike assemblies , often quotes that scripture in rev. . . babylon the great , the mother of harlot● , interpreting it thus , rome is the mother church , and all the parish congregations of england are the daughters , which are harlots ▪ and this having been objected against this interpretation , that the apologists acknowledge many of our congregations to be true churches , he and divers other independents say , they are not of the apologists minds . the sect of seekers growes very much , and all sorts of sectaries turn seekers ; many leave the congregations of independents , anabaptists , and fall to be seekers , and not only people , but ministers also ; and whosoever lives but few yeers ( if the sects be suffered to go on ) will see that all the other sects of independents , brownists , antinomians , anabaptists , will be swallowed up in the seekers , alias libertines , many are gone already , and multitudes are going that way , and the issue of these sects and schismes will be , that all will end in a loosenesse and licentiousnesse of living . a hymne which some of the antinomians do sing at their meetings instead of davids psalms . the newes is good , christ shed , his bloud , our peace is made in heaven ; and now he is gone up to his throne , all power to him is given . our glory is great , we are compleat in gods great love we stand , we are on high exalted by christs victorious hand . we once neer lost , to hell did post , but god in mercy found us , and now he hath taught us his path , and with his mercy crown'd us . shall sin or hell gods people quell , or ever keep them under ? no , christ hath died , sin purifide and hell bands rent in sunder . the bloud of christ our great high priest , which once for us was shed , hath purg'd the blot , and cleans'd the spot wherewith we were besmear'd . a glorious thing , a wonder strong that sin should not defile , and those are all to christ more dear that once did seem so vile . all sin we finde is out of minde , the saints are made divine first in the love of god above in glory they do shine . none are so dear , nor yet so near , with god they are made one , who now doth see them sure to be as is his only sonne . christ is our guide , we cannot slide , nor never fall away ; our state is sure , and must endure though all things else decay . then let 's be bold , our heads uphold , the time is drawing nigh when we shall raign , and eke remain with god eternally . let all base fears , and needlesse cares out of our souls remove , with speed let 's fly to god on high and dwell with him above . amen , amen . and 't is remarkable , that now for present the best independent churches and congregations are mixed assemblies and medlies , consisting of persons whereof some are anabaptists , some antinomians , some libertines , others hold arminian and socinian tenets ; those who for mixtures in manners , and because of some persons not so holy in their lives , made a schisme in the church , have worse mixtures among themselves in doctrine , a linsey wolsey compounded religion ; i do not think there is any one independent church of three yeers standing , and that hath attained to the number of between . and . members , but had , or hath in it some anabaptists , antinomians , seekers , or else persons holding one or other odde and strange opinion . mr. symonds independent church at roterdam is over-grown with anabaptisme , and he hath written into england that he is so pestered with anabaptists , that he knew not what to do ; mr. sympsons church hath bred divers seekers , mr. l●ckiers antinomians , master iohn goodwins company is an unclean conventicle , where the spirit of errour and pride prevails in most , the unclean spirit being entred there into himself and his people with seven evill spirits , socinian , arminian , popish , anabaptisticall , libertine tenets being held by himself and many of his people . and what shall i say more , it will be too long to tell of what i have heard of some members in mr. carters , mr. cradock● , mr. brisco , mr. barlets churches concerning opinions they hold . march . i was informed for certain , that a young maiden buying in the sirand of a goldsmith a gold ring , the young man in the shop who was selling it her , asked her whether she was to be married ( for the ring was much of the size of a marriage ring ) she answered no , nor did not know whether ever shee should be married ; he questioned further with her , what use she bought if for ; after some discourse together , she told him she bought it to give to the minister of the church into which she was to be admitted a member ; and the young man further conferring with her , she told him she was to be of the congregationall way , and of a church where the minister was a man of precious gifts . it hath been related to me also from good hands , and if there be any mistake in the relation , i desire the independent ministers to clear wherein , namely , that in some of their congregations , maid-servants out of their wages , do allow so much yeerly as five or six shillings to their ministers , that some poore godly persons who have expressed great desire to be of their church way , and gone to some independent ministers to be admitted to church-fellowship , could not because of their poverty ; that persons of great ranck and quality , as some ladies are admitted to their churches , in a more favourable way , and not after the ordinary manner ; and that one lady at least ( though no member of any independent church but of a presbyteriall ) hath been admitted to the lords supper among them , and her child was to have been baptized by an independent minister , but that it died the very day appointed for the baptizing of it ; that in one of the independent churches here in london , a rich widow who was there a member , refused to give her consent to one in way of marriage ( whom otherwise she liked and entertained ) till hee yeelded to settle twenty pounds a yeer upon her independent minister during his life ; and lastly , that some of the independent ministers have from some one of their members , . . li. or better per annum ; and a minister is named who hath fifty five pounds yeerly from three members of his church , forty pounds from two , and fifteen pounds from a third . a disputation held at the spitle about the immortality of the soul by some anabaptists , as lam , battee , and others on the day of publike thanksgiving for dartmouths being given up into the hands of the parliament . my lord major hearing of a great concourse of people that were to meet upon such a businesse , having a respect to the peace and good government of this city , sent two of the marshals men to lam to the spitle , where they were met to dispute , but had not yet begun , who told lam that may lord major had sent them to him to forbid him or them to dispute as upon this day ; lam answered the officers he would go up and acquaint the brethren , which he did , standing in a place like a desk above the people at one end of the room , and battee at the other : the first thing that lam spake of , was , that my lord major had sent to forbid their meeting , or rather to desire them not to dispute as upon this day ; battee stood up and said that mr. major was a limb of antichrist , and that he was a persecutor of the brethren , and that he did question what power or authority he had to forbid them ; he was sure the parliament gave him no such power , but gave them liberty to use their consciences , and for his part he durst undertake to make it good to master major ( calling my lord major in a most base and scornfull manner master major . ) one overton that was to be the moderatour on battees side , stood up and said , brother lam , had paul done well if he had desisted from preaching in the name of jesus if he had been commanded by the high-priests to forbear , had he done well or not ? lam answered no ; whereupon overton replied in a most scornfull proud manner , nor ought we to obey master major ; and thus did these men argue the power of my lord major for an houres space ; but at the last they came to state the question , and fall to their dispute ; the question was , that god made man , and every part of man of the dust of the earth ; and therefore man , and every part of man must returne to the dust again , which battee could not prove , nor could lam well tell how to answer , but both of them ran off from scripture to scripture , never clearing any one thing to the people ; and when they had rambled a long time , that they could neither of them tell what to say , then one or other stood up , and said , brother lam , or brother battee , leave this point to the consideration of the brethren , and take up some other ; after these two had spent foure or five houres in this confusion , they sat down and rested , and then stands up one mellish a cobler , and lawson a schoolmaster , both anabaptists , and to work they went as their brethren before : lawson calls to mellish , and saith to him , brother mellish , speak either categorically or hypothetically ; mellish answered lawson , that he spake now to him in an unknown tongue , and prayed him to explain himself ; lawson told mellish that he was nor fit to dispute if he knew not the meaning of these words ; mellish replied that if hee should stand up and tell the people that the moon was made of green cheese , he did not question but some would be of his mind . this relation was given me under the hand of a godly honest citizen , who was an eare and eye witnesse of all the said passages , who also named to me other persons that were present , and he delivered me this relation in writing before two sufficient witnesses , and declared himself ready to make proof of this before authority when ever he should be called . this following relation was sent to a godly and able minister of this city , ( one who hath a pastorall charge in london ) and this minister delivered me the originall writing , which to a tittle there set down . reverend , and much respected , i desire you pardon my boldnesse in imparting to you that which hath lately befaln me : i was in the company of some antinomians that were very importunate with me to forsake your teaching , and come among them and harken to their preachers , and they prevailed with me so farre , that i gave them my promise to hear their preachers ; but the night following , i had such a terrible dream which made me break my promise with them ; for i dreamed that the divell would have pulled me out of the bed , and carried me away with him ; then i cried out in my sleep so loud , that i waked them that were in the chamber , lord jesus help me , lord jesus help me ; then me thought the power of god came on my right hand , and rescued me from satan : this i take for a warning from god to avoid their society ; and for which i desire that thanks be rendred to god in this congregation which i use to frequent . there is one m●ster mills a common councell man , the city brickler , who hath related it to many , as a thing most certain , that an old acquaintance and friend of his , an old papist knowing well all papists , said to master mills , that now there were but two sects or sides in england , the presbyterians and the independents ; unto which master mills objected , how can that be ? seeing there are many papists ; this papist replied , that to his knowledge all the papists in ☞ england were independents ; and this papist further added , that this liberty of conscience and toleration for all men to enjoy their religion , was a blessed thing , and the happiest thing that ever was found out , or words to that purpose . there is a sectary living neer the spitle , a great follower of master randall , who did offer to sell his bible , and being asked why he would sell it , and what he would do for a bible , answered , he could make as good a book himself . some sectaries do commonly affirme they are not to beleeve the scriptures further then their own reason doth perswade them of the truth of them , and that the scriptures are no more the word of god then the words any man speaks are ; because he could not speak those words but by a power from god. it hath been told me from good hands , that there are a company of persons about london , who meet weekly to reason and object against the scriptures ; their meetings were about the spitle , and since in hounsditch , and now they shift places for feare they should be discovered , and surprised ; it were good that authority would look into it , to finde them out ; i shall be ready to name the men from whom i have had such information . i have been informed lately by divers honest men , that in northampton-shire some of the souldiers who are sectaries , and are of that part of the army which came out of the west , and belong to that army in the west , have come into the parish churches , and put by the godly ministers who should preach , and by force against the will of the ministers and people , have set up captaines , and others of the souldiers to preach in their pulpits , and to vent their fancles and errours . the true copie of a letter written to me from a worthy and godly minister in suffolk , in the name , and by the consent and agreement of other ministers of the county at a meeting of theirs , and sent up by the hands of a godly minister in those parts , who delivered it to me . worthy sir , your brethren in these parts desire to praise god for you , and for that courage he hath given you to encounter , and publikely to oppose the sectaries of these dayes . god make you as augustine , malleum haereticorum . sir , this bearer , a minister , an honest neighbour of mine will make a true relation to you of some of the late pranks of some sectaries on both sides of u● . one is of oates the anabaptist ( whom your gangraena takes notice of ) that after one of his private exercises amongst the weaker vessels , one wades wise of stisted in essex , seemed to be so affected with him , that she said she would never hear minister again : and it may be god intends to make her as good as her word ; for upon ☞ this she was taken mad , and remaines in a sad distracted condition ; and her husband sent to master blackaby , and master faircloth ( our godly neighbours ) to pray for her . this , one redgwell an honest man making report of , was asked if he were not at oates his exercise ; he answered no ; then it was demanded , was not your wife there ? he answered , if he should deny that , he should sin against god , and tell a lie , for she ( he said ) was there , but was never well since . this bearer can likewise tell you somewhat of master archer of halsted . also of one lancester of bury a pedler , and of his opening the whole book of ezra at a private meeting , insteed of opening his pack , and of the prayer that followed his exercise , &c. of master erbury also , &c. it would be lost labour for me to make a further relation by writing of these things , seeing you shall receive the truth more fully by word of mouth , and by a faithfull relator : i have no more to say at this time , but that i heartily pray for you , that god preserve , direct and guid you , and make you more and more serviceable to him and his church , in your generation , and to let you know that i am your faithfull freind and brother from clare in suffolk march ▪ . upon conference with the minister who brought up this letter , he related these following passages to me , and i writ them presently as he spake them . master erbury ( one of those sectaries spoken of at large in gangraena , pag. . and . ) coming lately to bury in suffolk , and there exercising in private , he delivered divers erroneous things , and at last went so high , as to deny that jesus christ ☞ was god , and that he was as much god as ever jesus christ was , or should be . one lancester in a private meeting at bury , condemned all the ministers of england for the sanba●●ats and tobiahs of this time , that hindered the building of the temple , resembling himself , and the sectaries to those who would build the temple , but it was withstood by the ministers , who hindred it : at that meeting there was a plain godly man , a solid old christian of master faircloths congregation who opposed him , and god was so mightily with him , that it turned to the shame and reproach of this lancester , and those who adhered to him . master archer of h●lsteed , an independent , a man who hath preached much against our ministers and tyths ; at the same time , or thereabouts , when hee preached so against tyths , used meanes to procure to himself a great living in essex , of two hundred pounds per annum , and came to some gentlemen of the country for their hands to further the getting of that living . an extract of a letter sent me from a worthy and godly minister out of the country . friend , your last together with the book , i received . i must confesse when i first saw your title , i said it was none of those aulus gellius calls illecebra● ad ligendum , &c. for what is a gangraene but an abundance of corrupted bloud inflamed , &c. and yet for your sake i not run but read over the text , and found it every way answerable : and that you were indeed the master of that art , which ( appointing the cure according to the cause ) wisely prescribes cutting and flashing , scarifications , washings , not only with mulsum or water , but vineger and salt , unguentum e●yptiacum , burning trochiskes , ars●nicon sublimatum , and much more then you have yet applied , considering not only the creeping of this canker , but that danger the whole body is in of no lesse then that sphacelus of atheisme , which not only good and godly master greenham , but old bishop ☞ lake himselfe long since prophesied would most probably over-runne this realm , rather then papisme ; and why then should any speak of a toleration , except à tollendo potius quam tolerando . obsta principiis , &c. is one of the best aphorisms of all the sons both of hippocrates and galen that i know . 't is sad , very sad to see our anglia ( as spalatensis complains of his rome ) turned into africa , new monsters every day , such horrid blasphemies , intolerable wickednesses , &c. shall vipers still be suffered to eate up the very bowels of their mother ? i could tell you many a sad story of some that preach , pray , and prate , what not ? independents all , yea and scholars , nay ministers , yet not by ordination . the people they say make ministers , quoting ezek. . v. . the scriptures say they are obscure , no assemblies , synods , nor generall councells more likely to teach the truth then the sanctuary a particular congregation , &c. these words were used praying for england . o blessed god , we have often already prayed in thy sons name ; now let us pray unto thee for thy son — clothe thus all his enemies with shame , but , &c. an usuall strain in their prayers , is as followes , that god would pardon the reformed churches their great prophanation of the lords day ; and why is this used but to make them odious ? another strain , who hath gained ? who hath given you so many victories , but the independents ? liberty of conscience lord , &c. and all in our own kingdom . the millenary conceit is the common subject of sermons , and a church on earth without so much ☞ as an hypocrite . publike thanks was given to god , for that the london petition for settling &c. took no better . a thousand such , and other passages of no small note , you may hear if you please but to visit your friends in these parts , whose very souls are so vexed , that i for my part am resolved ( if it may be ) to burie my self at my study , and stirre as little as i can to hear or see such , or the like abominations . and where now is sodom , as some of their brethren call'd old - england when they went off our shore to sea using that expression , farewell , farwell sodom , &c. and what are they but babell-builders , whose tongues are so divided , that i doubt not of the downfall of their babylon , which by interpretation saith origen , signifies that confusion christians should out of . courage friend , let divels that must be disposest , cry out , we torment them before their time . if ever the jesuite will be at the hight , i suppose he is very neer now ; who say no more but security if any thing will slay us , which god forbid . thus with best salutes i rest , though in haste yet heartily yours march ▪ a justification and vindication of the truth of the most materiall passages related in the book entituled gangraena , from those exceptions made against them in three late pamphlets entituled , groanes for liberty , a whisper in the eare , cretensis , alias master goodwin . i shall take them in order , and begin with mr saltmarsh , who first apeared in print : as for master saltmarsh he doth not so much as offer to disprove any one peece of matter of fact throughout my whole book , excepting that only of a woman preacher at brasteed in kent , of which he affirmes that 't is known to all in that place to be a meer untruth vid. m. s●lt . p. . now for the present , i reply as followes ( reserving the greatest part i have to say till my full and particular reply to mr saltmarsh and his fellowes shall come forth ) that as t is a strange bold assertion to affirm not only for himself , but for all the parish , that they know 't is a meer untruth ( which implies thus much , that mr saltmarsh does not only assuredly know all things that all the women in the parish do , but all what ever the whole town of brasteed knowes ; for else how can he say so of all the women , and all the inhabitants of that place ) so t is an untrue assertion ? for some who live at brasteed do not know it to be an untruth , but beleeve it to be a truth ; for one mr. wheatly a godly able minister who lives at brasteed in a gentlemans house , and hath lived there this two years , told me very confidently this relation of a woman in the presence of two ministers ; besides two other inhabitants of the town who have lived longer in brasteed then master saltmarsh , affirme the same ; and three godly ministers living neer to brasteed , have told me also there is such a woman , of whom this is commonly spoken ; and a citizen in london an honest man having some relation to brasteed , and knowing the place , tels me there is such a woman , as is reported by many of brasteed to be a preaching woman ; and he coming lately out of kent , told me that upon the way meeting with a gentleman of the committee , who discoursing of mr saltmarshes denying there was any such woman in brasteed , and was speaking against my book , this citizen replyed , he beleeved it to be true , and offered to lay a twenty shilling peece that there was such a woman , but the gentleman durst not ; and besides all this the minister who first told me , having lately been written unto about it , in a letter by way of answer stands to that relation which is laid down in gangraena . but of this in my full and particular * reply the reader shall receive more large satisfaction ; only for present from what i have now said ( though there be much more behinde ) i leave to the consideration of any judicious and unprejudiced reader whether i had not ground enough to writ as i did , and whether there be not more reason to beleeve so many affirmative witnesses then one negative , who may not know all that 's done in brasteed ; ( for such a thing may be , and he never the wiser ) besides master saltmarsh being a sectary is a party , and his testimony is by me proved to be false , in affirming all in that place know it to be a meer untruth , whereas the contrary is the truth , divers living in that town relating the story of a woman preacher there . all that master walwyn the marchant either in his pamphlets entituled a whisper in the eare of master thomas edwards , or a word more to master thomas edwards , labours to disprove in matter of fact contained in my book entituled gangraena , is , that i have wronged him , and falsified in saying mr walwyn a seeker and a dangerous man , a strong head ; as also in my relation of mr lilburn , the informations given unto me of both of them being such as if they had been made a purpose to shame me to all the world . now by way of reply , first concerning mr walwyn himself , i am confident that every judicious reader , who hath but read mr walwyns pamphlets , out of them will acquit me , that i have said nothing of him but truth , he being out of his owne mouth and writings condemned for a dangerous man , a seeker , and a strong head , as many who knew him not before , from reading his pamphlets , have told me , that he hath justified to the world what i have said of him ; but i shall at large make good this against the man in my full reply to him and his fellowes , following him from place to place , from person to person with whom he hath conversed , and from one thing to another that he hath had his hand in ; wherein i shall lay him open to the world , and prove him to be a dangerous man , yea a desperate dangerous man , a seeker and libertine , a man of al religions , pleading for all ; and yet what religion he is of no man can tel ; a man of an equivocating jesuitical spirit , being full of mental reservations , & equivications as appears by the sense he hath put upon the * nationall covenant ; there being hardly any jesuit could have put a more equiv●call interpretation upon the covenant , then himself : and i desire the reader to observe what i now say of m. walwyn : since his first book came forth against me , i have enquired and spoken with many honest godly men about m. walwyn , who know him well ; and all of them with one consent and voyce ( though i have enquired of them apart , concerning him , and the men know not one another ) yet all agree that mr walwyn is a dangerous man , and a desperate man. for present i will only alledge two testimonies ( reserving others till my full reply ) which i beleeve will be full and speak home , and the parties who witnesse , will be ready before any committee , or court of england , if called , to restifie as much : the first was given me in writing , march . . subscribed by the hand of him who brought it to me , and delivered to me in the presence of two godly citizens as his hand , and that which he would maintain to be truth , and produce other witnesses for the proof of it , when he should be call'd by authority ; and t is as followes . inprimis , that mr walwyn did say it was a sin to pray for the king ▪ and that it would lie as a sin upon the preists so to delude the people ; and that he did admire at our preists that they should stand bauling and praying for the king , that god would turn his heart , and say of him that he was the anoynted of god. and he said they were glad to doe it ( namely the ministers ) because if the king maintain them in their way , they would cry him up to the people : and m. walwyn being asked how we should performe the covenant we had taken to maintain the kings honour , he said he remembred no such clause in the covenant : and further he said , that he did much admire at the simplicity that was in the hearts of the people , that they should suffer themselves to be governed by a king , and that under such a government the kingdome could not be safe : he being asked what he thought of mr marshall , m. calamy , m. sedgwick , and other godly ministers ; he answered and said they were a company of mountebancks , and that they kept the people in ignorance and blindnesse , and that they preached nothing but what we know already , and that he knew no scriptures for them to be preachers more then other men , as he named shoemakers , coblers , weavers , or sopeboylers , and the like ; absolutely speaking against all congregations and ministers , and that if their tyths were taken from them , they would soon leave their trade ; and said that the apostles were tradesmen , and were not chargeable to the brethren ; he further said that our ministers might go and preach the gospel to the turks and heathens , and not to stand prating here , for as he said before , we knew enough already . i asked him who should preach to the people , and how they should be maintained , if they would have them have nothing ? he answered he knew no ministers that ought to be maintained , but that every man that had gifts might be a minister , and use the liberty of his conscience ; and he spake in the behalf of paul best for his blasphemy ; saying , that if we could not convince his conscience , we ought not to punish his body . touching the rebellion in ☞ ireland , m. walwyn said , the irish did no more but what we would have done our selves , if it had been our case ; and said , what had the english to do in their kingdome ? and that they were a better natured people then we , and said , why should not they enjoy the liberty of their consciences ? i told him that it was a sad thing to see how we are divided , some women would not pray with their husbands , and some not sit at table when they gave thanks for the creatures ; and servants would not joyne in prayers with their masters , nor heare them repeat the sermons , and that many of them have cast off all duties in their families ; he justified them all in what they did , and said , they could give a reason for it , and that it was their conscience that led them to it , and therefore they ought not to be blamed . all this i do averre to be truth , and will maintain it , and can bring others to witnesse the same , and have set to my hand . t. c. the second was told me march . by a common-councell-man of the city of london , a godly understanding and active man , who related to me both the place where it was spoken , and the names of some other citizens , who were present , and heard it as well as himself , and the relation is as followes . there being a meeting at a tavern of some wel-affected citizens to consider of some things in reference to the publick , as they were sitting by the fire ( before they began to fall on the businesse they met for ) m. walwyn spake of the trinity in such a strange manner , and so slightly , that all the company was troubled at it , and they brake off and departed without doing any thing of that they came for . now m. walwyn , i dare appeal to any indifferent reader , whether i have injured you in giving barely a brief note or touch upon you , saying , m. walwyn , a dangerous man and a seeker ; or rather whether i did not much befriend you to say so little of you , when as you deserved i should have made a long relation of you and your wayes , as well as of hich , web , clarkson , wrighter , and many others . but what may be the true reason that m. walwyn was so touchie upon the * naming of him in a word or two , as to make a book , and bring himself upon the stage ? i suppose that beside his pride , and the showing of his parts , it was to engratiate and endear himself to all the sectaries , by appearing and writing against a man so hatefull to them as m. edwards is , and specially at this time , writing * once and again for the cause of liberty of conscience , that so being taken notice of for a strong head , and true to the generall libertie of all sects ; some or other of the independents might get him a burgess place , and bring him in to be a member of the house of commons : i am of the opinion he aimed at that , knowing that cornwell was clearing , and many places there wanted burgesses ; and do beleeve , if a man could see the list of those who are prickt for cornwell by the independent party , hee would find m. walwyns name in ; and i am of the mind , if m. peters were asked , and would tell truly , it would be found m. walwyn and lieut. col. lilburn are committed to his care for cornwwell , and that he must preach at their election ; and besides all other reasons i have to think so , this is one , that both m. walwyn and m. lilburn were by some named , and voices laboured to be made for them to have had them burgesses of southwark ; i have spoken with two godly men of the burrow , who were once or twice at a meeting about the businesse of m. walwyns being propounded for a burgesse in southwarke , who then opposed it , as hearing from many hands , that he was a dangerous man , and a seeker , yea worse . as for m. walwyn saying my informations of m. lilburn to his knowledge are such as if they had been made of purpose to shame mee to all the world : i reply , had hee instanced in any one particular , i would have given a particular satistactory answer : but it may be m. walwyn means that which cretensis particularizes in pag. . of playing at cards , that 't is false that m. lilburn is a player at cards , and that hee protests hee never plaid a game at cards since his coming to london ; now i desire to ask cretensis , m. walwyn , m. lilburn , what they mean by since his coming to london , whether the first time of his coming to london when hee came a youth to be here an apprentice ( as many may take the words ) ? or since his last coming to london out of the army abou● twelve moneths ago ? or coming to london after some journey two or three months ago ? or which of the times he means since his coming to london : now if he speak and mean of the first , that hee hath not plaid at cards never since his coming to london when hee was a youth , i can prove that is false by good witnesses , and i know m. lilburn will confesse he hath plaid at cards since these warres : i can for a need tell him where , and when , and produce witnesses , but that needs not ; mr. lilburn ( on the . day of march last ) confessed to a citizen , though he had not played at cards since his coming to london ( keeping himself under that equivocation ) yet he plaid at cards severall times in * oxford : but if he mean since his last coming to london , which may be few months , or a few weeks ago , ( neither do i know how often m. lilburn may make journeyes , and return again to london ▪ ) that no whit infringes the truth of my relation concerning him ; for i did not say he plaid at cards this month or two ; but if he have often plaid at cards since hee was a great sectary , and a stickler against the presbyterians and the reformed churches within this yeer , two , or three of the contestation against the presbyterian government , that makes good what i have said of him ; and in common acception that man may be truely said , and is so called to be one who is a player at cards , that yet playes not every week nor month ( not having opportunities , nor his many occasions at some times permitting him ) but only once a yeer , at the ordinary time of playing at cards , and when he is at leisure , and meets with company for it : now if lieutenant col. lilburn would play often at cards when he was prisoner in oxford in his affliction , and among the cavaliers , the enemies of reformation , ( both which are great aggravations of the fact ; for , if a man be afflicted , saith saint iames , let him pray , not play at cards ; and a man among enemies , and those who hate reformation and strictnesse , had need walk more circumspectly , and be more exact because of the reproach of the enemy , and who no question from thence took occas●on both to strengthen themselves in their loose walking , and to speak evill of the wayes of god ) i know no reason but a man may without breach of charity judge he will play at cards now he is at liberty , and among his brethren the sectaries . and so much for the present by way of reply to m. walwyn . as for cretensis the cretian , aliàs mr. goodwin , hee is a man who expresses so much pride , arrogancie , malice , wrath , jearing , and scoffing not only at me and my books , and some few fa●ithfull ministers and servants of god , but against all presbyterians assembled or not assembled in england , scotland , france and ireland , coming forth just like goliath , railing and defying the armies of the living god , that i have much ado to keep my selfe from answering him according to his folly , and beating him with his own weapon , difficile est s●tyram●on scribere , and my indignation to see the unworthinesse and insolencie of the man much provokes me . but i consider what becomes me as a minister of the gospel to do in such a case , rather then what he hath deserved , and therefore shall passe by his railings , and scoff● , not rendring evill for evill , or railing for railing , but contrariwise blessing , knowing that i am thereunto called : and instead of railing and vilifying master goodwin , i will a little expostulate with him ; m. goodwin , will you never leave your scoffing and scorning , your reviling and reproaching of all men , stuffing your pages with great swelling words , and filling whole leaves with nothing but jeers and multitude of six footed words instead of reasons and arguments ? will you by all your writings and preachings make good that title which by way of reproach was first given to you , namely , the great red dragon of coleman-street ? will you still speak as a dragon , and dragon like flie fiercely in the faces of all , spitting your poyson and venome against all , casting fire-brands every where ? will you alwayes use your mouth to speak great things and blasphemies , and open your mouth in blasphemy against god , his name and his tabernacle , as you have done in your books of controversie ? will you never learn to be meek and lowly , to deny your passion , speak as a lamb , and repent of your deeds ? let me tell you , that if you belong to god , this spirit of yours , and the way of managing things in your books of m.s. theomachia , answers to mr prynne , cretensis will cost you dear , and you will be saved as by fire . for my part instead of reproaching and scoffing you ( though not for want of matter , cretensis being a very fruitfull subject for a man to exercise his wit upon ) all i will do either in this brief , or in my full and large reply shall be to draw to one head all the errours and strange wayes cretensis holds and hath walked in , by which if ( god wil ) he may be ashamed and truly humbled , and his spirit saved in the day of christ , or however , that godly weak christians may know him as a dangerous erroneous man , and avoid him : all i will say now ( reserving particulars , and the proofs of them till my full reply ) shall be this , that cretensis hath an hereticall wit , and holds many wicked opinions , being an hermorphradite and a compound of an arminian , so●inian , libertine , anabaptist , &c. and in regard of some strange opinions he hath held many years , and others that in time he might fall unto ( which in the presbyterian way he could never enjoy with quiet , nor have liberty to propagate them ) therefore he took sanctuary in independency , falling from our church , and the presbyteriall government ( which a little before the first sittting of the assembly , he held to be most agreeable to the word of god ) unto the independent way , as that wherein he might with more safty enjoy the opinions ; and left cretensis should score up this fo●a● lye , as he hath done many truths ; which before i have done with him , i shall make apparent to all , i do here give the reader a true copie of a narrative sent me from a godly humble learned minister subscribed with his own hand , which fully proves the matter i have now spoken of . a narrative of certaine words uttered by mr. iohn goodwin minister of coleman-street , not long before the assembly sate . the said mr goodwins judgement being consulted as concerning the point of church-government : his answer was to this effect , that in his judgement he approved of the presbyterian government as being most agreeable to the word of god , yet in fine added that he thought , that the way of inpendency would better suit and fit him in regard of some private and singular tenents that he held ▪ this minister subscribes his name at length under these foregoing lines , and writes as followes . master edwards let me request you not to bring my name upon the stage in print to attest this businesse for divers reasons best known to my self : i say no more , verbum sat sapienti . yours in all offices of love . and therefore though in this , as in any other particulars , i set not down the names in print , yet am i far from forgery or lying , or those ministers from being afraid to justifie their letters , as cretensis would insinuate to the reader ; pag. . . but i conceive the reasons why this minister and many others , though they are willing to witnesse truth , and to communicate their intelligence about the sectaries , yet for the present do desire to have their names concealed . . because they live among many sectaries and independents , some whereof being in place both in towns and countries may do them no good offices , but may much molest and trouble them ; and therefore unlesse some great good might come by witnessing publikely , which might countervaile their hazard , as suppressing ☞ the conventicles of the sectaries , the spreading of erroneous opininons , and punishing some of the rabbies and ring-leaders , they are unwilling to venture themselves by being brought upon the stage in print . . because some live in places where part of our armies lie , or may come : now many souldiers being sectaries , and violent for their opinions , if they should meet with any ministers named in print , giving me intelligence , it were as much as the spoiling of them and their families ; and where are they that do or will secure them from such violence ? there are too many examples of ministers being in danger , as m. andrews was ; and therfore i deal plainly , i have been spoken to by word of mouth , and sent unto from some ministers in the country not to name them in my books , because , if the army , or some parts of it come that way , they shall be undone , which is a satisfying answer to all rationall men , for my concealing their names , especially to all those who understand the state of things , and observe how powerfull the faction of the sectaries is . now before i come to give a particular answer to the most materiall objections made against my book , i shall premise these sixteen observations upon cretensis , or a briefe answer , &c. which to every judicious and unprejudiced reader will ( i make no question ) give a great deale of satisfaction , and serve for a precious antidote against the venom and rancor of the cretian . obs. . i desire the reader to observe the hand of god in leaving m. goodwin so to himself in writing this pamphlet as to suffer his own pride , passion , rage and malice so far to blind him , as to name his own book ( and therein himself cretensis ) giving himself the name of lyar , as is manifested by the title of the book cretensis , or a brief a●swer to an ulcerous treatise &c. so that the brief answer to an ulcerous treatise is cretensis , not the treatise published by master edwards , which is made by master goodwin contradistinct to cretensis , so that if m goodwin understands plain english , common sense , and knows how to range his parts of speech in a sentence , &c. let him in his rejoynder to my reply deny it if he can , and truly t is admirable ( and i cannot but admire the wisdome and goodnesse of god wherein men deale proudly to be above them ) that this great rabbi , and seraphicall doctor , who comes forth like goliah , challenging all the presbyterians assembled or not assembled , carrying himself with that disdain and scorne towards me , just as goliah to little david , filling up some of his pages with scornings of me , as that i cannot writ true english , put the nominative case and verb together , speak common sense , nor give the english sense of a latin sentence , should himself in the very first words he writes prove himself such an ignoramus both in the latin and english , as to give himself the title of notorious lyar , namely , * cretensis , or a brief answer ; &c. and as the man doth it in the frontispice of his book , so in the book it self , as in pag. . where he would make me a lyar in that relation of cosens of rochester ; in the very entrance into it he stumbles , giving his own relation the lye , as the reader may perceive by these words , cretensis speaking of what was reported to me that cosens should say of christ , saith , let this be the first lye in this catalogue , the man neuer said it , so that he makes it a * lye that cosen 's never said it : now if this be a lye that cretensis never said so , then by the rule of contraries , 't is a truth that he spoke it ; and however cretensis may meane otherwise , if the man knew how to bring it out , yet the best that can be made of it , is , that this great cri●ick , who for want of matter , falls upon my words , making me to speak false english , nonsense , and to be ignorant in putting the nominative case and verb together regularly in english , is himself ever and anon tardy in false english , nonsense , not putting the nominative case and verb regularly together , of which i could give ( if i had no materiall things against cretensis , nor nothing else to do but to pick straw● ) many instances both in this and other of his books ; but i will name only one , and that in this businesse of cosens apealing to cretensis himself , where in this following sentence , his relation here reports that one cosens of rochester in kent , that iesus christ was a bastard , is the verb for the nominative case ; and whether m. goodwin hath well ranged his parts of speech in this sentence , and put the nominative case and verb together regularly in english ? besides adde unto this what followes hoc primum : let this be the first lye in this catalogue , the man never said it : whether he hath framed the structure of a period according to the common rules of reason , grammar , and common sense ; but to put a period to this first observation , let the reader take notice that in the thing wherein the man hath sinned ( his principall designe being this by all his art , flourishes and fallacies to render me a falsifier and a lyar to the world ) in that god hath punished him , suffering him to give himself the name of cretensis , alwaies lyar , by which name he will be known and called as long as he lives , and after he is dead also . obs. . m. cretensis answer in the whole frame , drift , and in all the strains of it is so carried ( if not formally yet virtually and equivalently ) to justifie and defend all the heresies , blasphemies , practises i have spoken against ; for what one of all the . errours or blasphemies is spoken against , disavowed or condemned in cretensis answer , but rather all along throughout the pamphlet , the errours , heresies , &c. are slighted , made nothing of , put off with jears , scoffs , and great swelling words of vanity ; yea , in a sort denied , as if there were none such , and in fine , both cretensis conscience and wanton wit are prostituted and stretched upon tenter-hooks to finde evasions and tricks to bring off without losse all sorts of sectaries and opinions ; as for instance , cretensis palliats and daubes with untempered morter , the errours , heresies , blasphemies , &c. with such kind of devices as these following : that he could make a discovery of as many errours and heresies together in me alone , and that the most orthodox presbyterian under heaven ( no nor independent neither ) errours not much beneath the like rate or number of errours and mistakes of religion , that he marvails how m. edwards could stay his pen at so small a number as . and did not advance to ten thousand times ten thousand , &c. that if i will own the verdict of as learned and ingeneous a pen as ever wrot on my side , ( cretens . pag. . ) i must release the better half of the prisoners , and instead of . errours and heresies write down four score , and that for twenty ( cretens . pag. . ) and ten of those opinions which i have impeached of errours and heresie ( and he will not say for how many more ) he casts the glove to whosoever will take it up to bring them off with the honour of truth ; besides cretensis makes a sixfold deduction from the catalogue of errours and heresies , ( cretens . pag. . ) and pleades formerly , and in terminis for some of the errours ; lastly also he so minces and extenuats the whole contents of my book , ( cretens . p. . p. . ) that when all the accused ones shall have time and opportunity to stand forth , and plead their innocency , ( cretens . pag. . ) there will be very little truth found remaining in any thing reported by me , except in such things as are transgressions against no law ; and indeed the whole answer is in one kind or other a continued pleading for baal , and a calling error truth , and darknesse light. o the wretchednesse and wickednesse of cretens . whereas for these abominations of the errours , heresies , blasphemies of our times , ( known too well to all the kingdome ) he should have sat down astonied , mourning and sighing , rending his heart , crying out , my bowels my bowels , i am pained at the heart ; the man makes a sport and mock of them to make himself & the independent sons of ieroboam who are of his own constitution merry with them , using also several artifices & sophistications to elude the truth . and tho this be very sad that such a man as cretens . who pretends to so much saintship and holynesse should do thus , or indeed any man who hath but the name of a christian , yet i cannot but observe a good hand of god in this as well as in the former , thus to leave him as to shame him before all the world , many besides my self taking notice and speaking of this in cretens . how without all distinction he speaks for , & most shamefully excuses all kind of errors , heresies , blasphemies , antitrinitarians , ar●ians , antiscripturists , &c. not finding any one error or person throughout my book worthy to be blamed ; but in this we find no strange thing , for that scripture must be fulfilled , as for such as turn aside unto their crooked wayes , the lord shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity . obs. . cretensis throughout his whole answer , without excepting any one man makes al those erroneous persons saints , faithful servants of god , &c. whom i have mentioned in my catalogue , and though most of the instances in my relations , where i name persons and insist somewhat largely upon them , be of most dangerous men , & of men holding most abominable horrid errors and blasphemous , opinions , as writer , webb , clarkson , hich , marshall , &c. yet doth not cretensis condemn , speak against any one of them , or separate the vile from such as may be pretious among the lower sort of sects , but bundles them up among the saints , speaking of the s t s the s t s , whose nakednes m. edwards being of satans councel , hath laid open , & spread a table for satan with the shame and sorrows of the saints , so that in cretensis kalender ( cretens . p. . ) antitrinitarians , antiscripturists , arrians , socinians , perfectists , are canonised for s t s as well as independents , brownists , and anabaptists , and a man may find there st best , st wrighter , st webb , st hieb , st clarkson , &c. as well as st goodwin and his church ; and no question if saint best shall suffer by the parliaments authority , for his damnable heresies and blasphemies he sha'l be a martyr too as well as a saint in cretensis kalender , and be reckoned the protomartyr of the sectaries ; and in this the reader may observe how cretens . ( no question against his own intention ) whilst the main scope of his pamphlet is to make gang●aena a lying book , confirms the truth of many passages related in it , namely the independents holding with all other sects , not dividing from them , pleading for them upon all occasions , strengthn●ng their hands , bringing them off from danger , &c. all which cretens . in many pages of his book makes good , and though he had a fair occasion upon the coming out of gangraen● to have casheired many out of their number ( there being so many foul sects and sectaries discovered ) and can never come off with honour for not taking it , yet 't is evident cretensis will not loose any one sort of sects or any one sectary , but joyns them with himself and his own church , the saints , the faithfull servants of god , and such like . obs. . cretensis out of his pride , and in his rage casts fi●e brans every where , abusing and having a fling at all he comes near , or takes an occasion to speak of , and that not only particular single persons of approved integrity and abilities , but whole societies , as the honourable court of common-councell , p. . calling them brethren in iniquity with me , for representing in their petition to the parliament , that there were * e'even meetings at least of sectaries in one parish in this city , yea and all presbyterians assembled and not assembled : had cretensis only abused and scorned me , a poor weak thimblefull of dust , that in his account knowes not how to range parts of speech in a sentence , nor to put the nominative case and verb together regularly in english ; i could have born it , and passed it by , as i have done many of the like kind ; but who can without a check , suffer this proud man to slight and scorn all kind of worthy men , as if all wisdome and understanding dwelt in him alone . obs. . cretensis in severall places of his book abuses sctipture ( bringing that in to serve his turn to make j●st ; and scoffs upon me and others , as in pag. . . &c. 't is a great iniquity in me ( as cretensis would make it ) to abuse his saints , but no fault in him to make jests upon the scripture . obs. . cretensis pamphlet consists of little else but great swelling words of vanity , jears , scoffs , bitter reproaches , long-winded sentences , preambles , circumlocutions , and multitude of words without waight and matter , so that if a man substract all these , what remains ? certainly all the matter , reason and strength of this book may be writ in a gold ring , and there will hardly be enough to fill a poor weak thimblefull of dust ; as for example , what ado doth cretens . make , speaking over and over the same things , spending whole pages and leaves upon that which he might have spoken & answered to in three or four lines ; as about bowling on dayes of thanksgiving , he runs out from pag. to . and so carps at the word meeting in pag. , . now 't is an evident signe the man could not find matter of exception in gang● ▪ to work upon , that he so catches at words and phrases ; no man who is in his wits , and hath good employments , will spend his time in picking of strawes and catching flies . obs. . cretensis if not formally and in so many words , yet vir●ually doth animate and stir up the sectaries to fall upon me , dealing by me in opposing the errors of the sectaries , just as the jesuits and papists do against those who write and preach against their way , telling some of their seduced followers , it will be a meritorious work to kill such , and take them out of the way ; and if cretensis do not so , what mean these words p. . and let mr. edwards know , and let his conscience and compeers know , that whatsoever he shall suffer , whether from his sectaries or others in this bloudy negotiation , he shall suffer not as a christian , nor with christ , but as a malefactor and an evil-doer ; implying , that if the sectaries mischief or kill me for my book 't is but an act against a malefactor and an evill-doer . obs. . cretensis takes upon him to set out a book which he cals an answer to a treatise lately published by mr. edwards called gangraena , and yet in this answer * professes that he hath not read one quarter of the book as ye● , and * that he hath neither leasure nor opportunity to search to the bottome , or sift to the bran ; all that the man storieth per se and per alios in his gangraena . now i think these are the only true passages in the book ; for had cretensis read the book thorough , and well laid to heart the contents of it , and compared one thing with another which i say in my book , i think he would never have written such an answer , nor belched out such unsavory passages against it ; i beleeve if cretensis had read it thorough , there are such sad and serious passages in many places of the book as would have awed his conscience ; but in the mean time how well becoming such a learned deep rabbi and wise man as cretensis would be thought to be , 't is to write an answer to a book , and to professe he n●ver read one quarter of it , i leave to all rationall men to judge , and to cretensis himself upon a review : i had thought master woodwards folly spoken of by many for giving his censure and judgment upon my antapoligie before he read it over ( only dipping here and there ) would have been a warning to other men . master edwards as weak a poor thimblefull of dust as he is , not knowing according to cretensis grammar , how to put the nominative case and verb together , &c. would have been ashamed to have had so little wit or reason , as to make an answer to a book , and in that to declare to all the world he never read a fourth part of it , but i cannot but take notice of the good hand of god in befooling mr. goodwin in this , as in many other passages of his answer to cause him to proclaim thus his own shame and folly to the world . obs. . great cretens a deep divine , a teacher of teachers ( as some cry him up ) the great lying oracle of the sectaries , yet further 〈◊〉 out his own shame and folly in saying the far greatest part of the particulars detected mi●e obserued by others , and presented to him . ( creten● . p. . ) is not this a strange and new way of answering books , for men to take up things upon trust from others , to go by an implicite faith , and not to see with their own eyes , nor examine things themselves , especially for a man upon things observed by others , to make such a mighty businesse and to carry matters in such a scornfull triumphing way positively charging a book with lying forgery , &c. as cretensis doth ? what if cretensis saints , who observed and presented matters to him , ( being parties ) should out of weaknesse , in judiciousnesse , or partiall affection , if not malice and wilfulnesse mistake and pervert my sayings , where is cretensis then ? i must tell cretensis the poor weak thimbleful of dust , so scorned by him as not worthy to carry his books after him , doth not use to make answers to books without reading one quarter of them , but before he sets forth answers , he reads them many times over , laying and comparing one thing with another , neither takes he any thing upon trust from other mens observations which he writes as his own , or can come to see with his own eyes . should mr. edwards in writing any of his books , or in this last have taken cretensis slight course , there 's no question but before this time mr. edwards had heard after another manner , and in another way of his books then he hath , especially of his antapologie and gangraena ; but the poor weak thimblefull of dust , that knows not how to range his parts of speech in a sentence , &c. hath more brains in this then the bushel full of dirt , who though cretensis have more guts and garbage and be better bodied yet in the opinion of wise men will be thought to have lesse understanding , and fewer brains in expressing himselfe so as he hath done . obs. . all the materials and ground-works cretensis makes use of and goes upon in his answer to gangrae . to disprove the truth of things related by me ( as the reader may observe ) are either the testimonies of the parties themselves , as overton , cosens , kiffin , lilburn , mr. burroughs , &c. ( which in their own case are little to be credited ; and if according to cretens . ( p. ) rule it be no regular processe in law , to ask my fellow whether i be a theif , then sure 't is no good o●e to ask a mans self if he be a theif ) or doubtful dark answers to matters of fact , that may be taken in divers senses just like the answers of the lying oracles , of wch there are many instances , as in that of lilbur ▪ playing at cards with many others , or else his witnesses wil be found to be sectaries , anabaptists , apprentice boyes , or parties interested , or such like ; ( cretens . p. ) as for instance in mr. ricrofts letter , whereas my proofs of things will be found to be of another nature , most of the greatest things laid down in my catalogue known to my self and many , many , the books being extant to prove them , and most of my witnesses will be found to be godly able ministers , and other eminent , sound , substantial christians , and the worst of them of more repute , more likely to know things they reported then the best of yours ( excepting mr. burroughs , whom yet i shall prove to have forgot himself in writing that paper set down by you page . ) beside , the persons whom i had relations from , had no reason to speak things out of partiality , prejudice , but only the naked truth , many things being related to others as well as to me ; besides , few of them who writ or related these matters , did them out of any design against the sectaries , but only in a way of declaring , and bewailing to what passe things were come ; and if to all these be added what cretensis himself grants , page . one affirmative testimony is more valid in law , then many negative , all that mr. goodwin hath alleaged by way of answer is to little purpose . observ. . that those very things cretensis charges me with either in my antapology , or gangraena ( though most unjustly ) as forgery , lying , jugling , bitternesse , malice , bloody negotiation against the saints , taking up reports , and printing them upon weak and slight grounds , obscene scurrilous writing , contradictions , false english , nonsense , with such like ; the man himself , as in other of his books , so also in this , is most faulty , as the judicious reader may observe more or lesse in one of these kindes or other throughout the whole book , and in my full reply i shall more largely and particularly specifie : in one word , cretensis is a most ungodly , antichristian , insolent , proud , malicious , wrathful , lying , obscent ▪ scurrilous , nonsense , absurd , contradictory piece . observ. . cretensis in all his books of controversie and answers of all sorts that i have seen and met with , is of all writers in this later age the greatest falsifier of authors , wresting them upon all occasions , and that with a gyant-like confidence against their own sense , and contrary to what they are known ex professo to hold , and he will not be beaten off from it , as is apparent in his treatises of justification , and in his answer to master prynne , and in this book bringing in master ball for him in the point of free-will : now this must arise either from that heretical genius of his , that he sinneth being condemned of himself , speaking lyes in hypocrisie , having his conscience seared with a hot iron , or else from a high flown mad fancy , making things to appear which are not at all , like to that mad man of athens , who thought all the ships that came into the haven were his ( though he never were sharer , much lesse owner in any ship ) so cretensis sancies all learned writers to be for him ' wheares indeed there never was any sound and orthodox divine for him , as i shall shew more fully hereafter , and divide learned master gataker from him . observ. . cretensis iust cretian like fastens that upon me in my gangraena , affirming i say that which i do not , as in pag. . sect. . and doth father opinions upon me , meerly from the leaving out of a word or two by the printers over-sight , cretens . pag. . ( though corrected in the second edition , and abroad full fourteen dayes before cretensis ) which was either done wilfully and on set purpose against his knowledge , or from his not reading over my book , but taking up things upon trust . observ. . there are many things in cretensis pamphlet which he pretends to answer , making much ado of , and laboring to fasten upon me lyes , nonsense , &c. which yet in the close , after a great many high flown words , cretensis is forced to confesse them true , and that both of himself and others ( though by many words he hath labored to pusle and cast a mist before the eyes of the reader . ) observ. . i desire the reader to observe , that this answer made by this great rabbi , is but snatches here and there , answering gangraena by great leaps , as leopards use to take ; cretensis answers one passage out of p. . and then leaps to . taking another there , and from p. . leaps back to p. . and after this sort the whole answer is : and for those pages where cretensis fastens upon something to give an answer unto , even there he snatches , takes not the whole , what goes before , nor what follows after , so that after that rate of answering ( if such kinde of discourses must have the names of answers ) how may not men elude , and make nothing of the excellentest books that ever were written by men , yea of the scriptures themselves , and wrest them , if they will not take one place with another , and observe what goes before , and what follows after : and as this great rabbies answer is by snatches , so 't is full of miserable shifts and poor evasions , as among others , pag. . cretensis gives that reason why my antapology hath not been answered in . moneths , because the way by which light and truth should go forth into the world , was hedg'd up by clergy , classique councel● , as with thorns against him : now i wonder with what face cretens . can write this , when as all men know the independents have a licenser of their own at hand , mr. bachilor , who is such a * friend to all the world of believers , that certainly he cannot deny cretensis : do not we daily see the man licenses without either fear or wit all kinde of pamphlets , the error of anabaptism , against mr. marshal , the error of seekers in the smoke of the temple , a pretended answer of mr. saltmarsh to the assemblies petition , and now cretensis against gangraena ; and will mr. bachilor with clergy , classique councels , hedge up the way as with thorns against cretensis reply to mr. edwards antapologiae ? can cretens . think though his own deluded church , and other sectaries may have so much independent faith as to believe him , that any presbyterian hath so little wit as not to laugh at such folly ? why could not iohn bachilor as well leap over the hedge of clergy classique thorne to license a reply to antapologia , as an answer to gangraena ; and pray mr. goodwin in your next account you give unto the world by publike writing , give me an account why honest iohn bachilor could not as well leap over the hedge of clergy classique thorns to license a full reply to antapologia , as to license a brief answer to gangraena ? but no more of this now . observ. . the christian reader may observe cretensis as in this , and his former books , so in all his preachings and ways , to have all the characters and marks of false prophets and false teachers , not only in his hands , but upon his forehead , so that if i would here enlarge , i might clearly shew all that christ and the apostles spake of false prophets , are to be found in cretensis ; but i will only instance in a few laid down by peter and iude in their epistles , and upon the propounding of them , i know the reader will say , as face answereth face in glasse , so doth cretensis answer these scriptures ; peter saith of the false teachers in his time ; that they speak great sw●lling words of vanity , and that they promise their followers liberty ; and iude , they are clouds without water , carried about of winds , raging waves of the sea , foaming out their own shame , wandring stars ; their mouth speaking great swelling words , having mens person in admiration because of advantage , these be they who separate themselves , sensual , having not the spirit : now i do appeal to any man who knows cretensis , either in his writings or preaching , whether he be not a man that speaks great swelling words of vanity ; whether he doth not promise his followers liberty , yea , a universal liberty ? whether he be not a cloud without water , ●●ourishes and shews without substance ? whether he be not a raging-wave of the sea , foaming out his own shame , witnesse his answer , a wandring star , wandring from one opinion and religion to another ? and lastly , whether he be not a separatist and sensual person without the spirit of love , meeknesse , humility , zeal for gods truth , and of a sound minde : in one word , i do not think there 's any man in the kingdom hath a more heretical head and he●●e th●n cretensis , and unlesse god give him repentance and recover him out of those snares wherein he walks , i fear if the man lives but one seven years , he will prove as arch an heretick , and as dangerous a man as england ever bred , and that he will be another david george , francken , socinus , and be canonized for a saint amongst those of munster , rae●conia , &c. quest. but it may be demanded by some , what 's the matter , and what are the causes that such venomour ran●●rous books as mr. goodwins cretensis ; &c. are printed , and so many hard speeches in city and countrey daily uttered against master edwards and his late book intituled gangraena , is it not a book full of lyes , nothing but lyes ? is it not a book full of venom and malice against the saints and faithful servants of god , calling for fire and sword against the saints ? ans. 't is a book full of truth , as will appear in the replyes i give to the particular exceptions made against it , and have in part cleared already , and a book of so much truth , that i believe no book written this hundred years , having so much variety and particularity in it , will be found to have more ; and for the proof of the truth , and reality of the errors , &c. contained in it , i have expressed my self at large ( as foreseeing the sectaries would call it a book of lyes ) in my gangraena , pag. , , , . and as 't is not a book of lyes , so neither of bitternesse , nor of speaking evil of the saints , but a book free from railing , evil speaking , against the saints and servants of god , which at large in twelve several particulars in my full reply coming after this book i shew : but no judicious christian need wonder at it that the sectaries generally give out so , for they have nothing else left to say for themselves , and to help their desperate cause , so much discovered and wounded as 't is by gangraena ; and what do they do in this case , but as the jesuits and papists did by mr. foxes book of martyrs , give out it was a book of lyes , and writ books to disprove some matters of fact , taking advantage from some mistakes in circumstances about names , places and such like , to cry it down ; and yet all the protestants know it was full of truths , and is of precious esteem in the church of god. just so do the sectaries now by my book ; and many of them , that they might possesse the people the more against it , and make that imputation , that ▪ 't is full of lyes , gain credit with the people , have invented many lyes and stories , which they formally tell up and down the city and countrey for certain ( and i can produce several witnesses to prove this , namely ministers and others , who have come to me and to others to know the truth of them ) as that some of the independent ministers have been with me , mr. g. mr. b. and have convinced me of some lyes in my book , as that same of the souldiers out of the army , have been with me about the story of mr. andrews , and proved it false to me , as that one whom i name in my book and speak of , as having some relation from the mans own mouth , coming to me about it , i confessed i knew him not , nor never saw him before , with some other such ; all which are meer lyes and fictions of the sectaries , ( so wicked and cunning are they in their generation to uphold their tottering babel ) to prejudice christians from reading and considering my book . but good reader , however falshood and slandering of men , is pretended the great cause of speaking so against me and my book ; the true cause of all the hatred is , because there is so much truth in it : many men who answer nothing to it , and others who have appeared in writing to disprove the truth , know themselves and others too guilty , and that in other passages where they are not named , and know that i know and can prove it , and that vexes them to the heart ; but were it indeed ( as many of them against their consciences give out ) a book of lyes , they would not be so mad at it , but i should before this time a day by some of my good friends the sectaries have heard of them after another manner , and i● another place then yet i have done : but in a word , i apprehend these three following reasons , as principal causes both in cretensis and others , of their appearing against me in so much wrath , fury and rage . . a vial is poured out upon the sun , the glory of their prime men is darkned , both by the antapology and gangraena , they who made themselves as the sun in the firmament of the church , are found , by these books , not only to be as the moon full of spots , subject to like weaknesse as other men , but to be in the ecclipse , fuller of blots then others ; yea , their sun is turned into darknesse , and their moon in●o blood , and they who would have been thought to have been the only saints , nay angels dropt from heaven with new gospel , new light , and new revelations , do evidently appear ( by what i have written ) to all men who have not sacrificed the principles of their ingenuity upon the gainful service of the * independent faction , to be strange kinde of saints , if saints . the best of them appear to be spots in the profession of religion ; but for many among them , who yet are cried up to the heavens , they have corrupted themselves , their spot is not the spot of his children : they are a perverse and crooked generation . now they being men proud , high-minded , impatient of any check and contradiction in their way , who thought alone to have had the repute among the people for sanctity , holinesse , and to have been idolized by them , and the contrary being so clearly demonstrated by many particular instances and proofs given in my books , no wonder that they are so mad , and rage against me , and finding their kingdom full of darknesse , that they gnaw their tongues for pain . . by my books , especially gangraena , many sectaries being so discovered by name , and places of abode , laid open in several of their opinions and ways , will not be able for the future to do so much hurt and mischief among the people ; their sheeps skins are by this pull'd over the wolves ears , and many will now shun and be afraid of them , who before knew them not ; and this disappointment of infecting and corrupting others , vexes and mads them to the heart . . their way and design must needs suffer much by this last book in the esteem of all the churches , and all the godly persons who are unprejudiced , yea , and of all fair ingenuous men , who before ( many at least not knowing the depths of satan ) might think well of them ; whereas now many of them upon reading my book , have lifted up their hands and blest themselves , to think what kinde of creatures these sectaries are , saying , if independents and anabaptists be such kinde of men , do such things as this book shews , god keep us from being such ; we had some good opinion of their way , but if they be such merchants , and have such tricks and wayes as mr. edwards layes down , we will be none of them . cretensis design , next unto that of rendring my book and all i relate in it to be false and untrue , is this ; the aspersing me and my antapology and gangraena with such weaknesse and want of all learning , as if i understood neither latin nor english , nor knew not how to speak or write reason , common sense , or to frame the structure of a period according the common rules of grammar , but were a profound ignoramus , and so altogether unfit to take upon me the confutation of errors ; and this he insists upon in several pages of his pamphlet or answer . cretens . p. , , , . reply . now in this , what doth cretensis else but play the jesuit and arminian , in stead of solid answers , thus to flight , vilifie me and my books , that being just the way they took against such books as were too hard for them , and knew not how to answer , as dr. twiss's books against arminians , &c. but whatsoever cretensis in his rage casts upon me and my writings , my books will speak for me and themselves in the gates ; having the testimony of many learned and godly men both of this and other churches , at home , and beyond the seas ; and could i without blushing and all suspition of praising my self , relate the passages in letters , messages sent me , speeches by word of mouth from great divines , both at home and from abroad , concerning my antapology and gangraena , and that not only of particular men apart , but of many in a body both in city and countrey , as a common joynt act , besides expressions that have faln from some independents , and independentis●● concerning me , my studies in the controversies of the church way , and some of my books ( as a speech of mr. thomas goodwin spoken to a minister one mr. t. and others then present upon occasion of some independents slighting me , and my first book , as cretensis doth here ; yea , passages out of some of mr. iohn goodwins answers to mr. prynne , concerning me and my antapology ) it would be a full confutation of all cretensis hath said against me in this matter ; yea , a clear conviction that all words of this kinde , are nothing else but the venting of his spleen and passion against me and my books : but all i will say by way of answer to cretensis reproaches of this nature , is , . the quick sale these books had , being bought up by learned and judicious men of all ranks , the last book gangraena being now in the presse the third time within lesse then two moneths , unto which adding the greatnesse of the book , consisting of so many sheets , with the not being exposed to sale by setting up titles in all places of the city , at church doors , exchange , &c. like wine that needs no bush ( though all ways under heaven were used by the sectaries to blast it ) is an evident argument 't is not such a weak nonsense piece as cretensis speaks of ▪ for in these times when the presse is so thronged with such variety of books , and many excellent pieces come forth , more then men can read , judicious understanding men have somthing else to do with their money and time , then to buy and read books full of nonsense , contradictions , and whose authors know not how to range their parts of speech in a sentence , nor how to put the nominative case and verb together regularly in english. . i will here give the reader a true copy of a letter to a tittle , sent me from eight and twenty ministers out of one county in this kingdom , whose joynt judgement upon my antapology and grangraena , may serve with every indifferent reader to ballance , yea , to weigh down cretensis . to our reverend friend mr. thomas edwards minister of the gospel . sir , wee cannot but acknowledge the great service you have done for the church of god , by interposing your self against the growing schisms and heresies of these times : and upon conference had thereof at our weekly meetings here , we have thought it our part to contribute somewhat to your incouragement , by testifying how great acceptance your labors find among us ; who give thanks to god for you and your zeal to his truth , expressed not only in your usual sermons , but especially in your antapology and gangraena , by which you are well known to us all ; and we earnestly desire that you will continue the same endeavors for the maintenance of the truth , and opposing of errors . and as we are very sensible of the great discouragements you are like to meet withal , so we shall the more heartily commend you , and the successe of your labors to gods protection and blessing , resting your loving brethren and fellow-labourers in the ministery march . . unto this letter the hands of twenty eight ministers are subscribed ; but i forbear the printing of them , as i do the county where they live , to avoid all danger which might come to any of them from printing their names , if some sectaries in the army come that way , as they are likely to do . now in my reply to particulars laid down in cretensis , i shall apply my self chiefly to justifie and make good those relations in gangraena , excepted against by cretensis , reserving other things in his answer to my fuller reply , which cretensis ( god willing ) shall be sure of , and that to the full . cretens . pag. . labours by all his rhetorick and many words to insinuate to the reader , how in writing of my book gangraena , i have said all , and the worst i can of the independents and sectaries , & that whilst i charge them only with such and such crimes , i do not so much charge them with these , as acquit and discharge them from all others , and that there 's no reasonable man but will abate and deduct , and that to a good proportion from such reckonings and accounts , &c. much lesse will he judge such accounts short or defective in particulars ; and that mr. edwards hath but faintly informed the world how vile and bad the sectaries are , but hath justified and acquitted them from all other crimes and imputations of any worse resentment or import then those wherewith he afflicted them , and consequently hath represented them to the world , as better and far more deserving , then far the greatest part of his own presbyterian generation . reply . however , mr. edwards , or the printer for him , may possibly in some places of his book print none of the truest english , yet i am sure cretensis in this page speaks none of the best sense nor reason that ever i read in my life , but every line and sentence is so slight and weak , that a man may look through and through it ; and the truth of it is , cretensis all along hath a multitude of bom-basted , starched words , priding himself therein , but seldom or never in all his answers hath he any thing else ; witnesse his answers to mr. walker , mr. prynne , and this present passage : and first for that which cretensis speaks here , the man makes good what he saith pag. . that he never read one quarter of my book , and that he took things upon trust , as observed by others ; for certainly had he read my book over , he could never have writ thus , that in charging the sectaries with these , i acquit them from all others crimes and imputations , and that i have represented them to the world , a better and far more deserving generation , then the far greatest part of the presbyterians . . because in divers pages of gangraena i expresly declare i have many more to lay to their charge , stiling this book but a praeludium and preparative to what 's behinde ; doth a man who accuses a guilty person at first but with two or three articles , and yet formally declares he hath many more , and upon every article pleads his liberty and power of additionals , justifie and acquit him from all others ? . had cretensis but read over my book , and considered what errors ▪ practises , blasphemies i speak of , to what a nature some of them amount , and of what a kinde they are , that there can hardly be worse , he would never have said i had dealt but faintly with the sectaries , and that the sectaries were a better and far more deserving generation then the presbyterians ; for if the far greatest part of presbyterians be worse ( or so bad ) either for doctrines , practises , &c. as i have proved many of the sectaries to be , then i must professe i will disclaim , and be the first that shall c●y out of them , and will never go about to plead for them as cretensis does for his sectaries . but supposing i had not declared my minde in this case , yet all that cretensis saith is in consequent without all strength of reason ; for therebe and are reserves when not thought of , and wise men always in all matters of accusations and reckonings will fear there 's more behinde , and suspect somthing worse , though not declared at first ; and i would ask cretensis , whether either in impeachments , or reckonings and accounts brought in to courts of justice against such and such men , though at first but part of the accusation be alleaged , whether the accused can be secure , they are justified with an high hand from all other crimes and imputations of any worse resentment or import ; and when one is impleaded and endicted upon the la●ter , this be a good plea in law , to say he is free , because they were not mentioned at first ; much lesse then will it hold in cases where there was a formal declaration and caution entred , that such articles were but a preparatory and not the whole matter . cretensis pag. . makes two challenges , casting his glove the first and second time to me ; first as to matter of practise , look of what crimes or miscarriages soever i have with any truth impeached the sectaries , he will produce both as many for number , foul ( yea far more foul ) for nature perpetrated and done by a far lesse number of presbyterians ; yea and that he will give another manner of account of the reality and truth of what he brings upon the stage in this kinde . secondly , for matter of opinion , that he will discover and finde out as many errors and heresies , and those of every whit as dangerous an import , to be at this day in a far lesse number of the classique party ; yea that he could make a discovery of as many errors and heresies in me alone ; and that he doth not think the most orthodox presbyterian under heaven , nor independent neither , erres much beneath the like number of errors . reply . i accept these challenges , and do take up the glove both the first and second time , rechallenging and defying cretensis to make them good ; and by these ungodly challenges made by him out of his great care and love of errors , to strengthen the hands of hereticks , least they should suffer losse , were he iohn of gaunt , and his glove iohn of gaunts gantlet , i would take it up , and first of all reply to cretensis , the man speaks he knows not what . cretensis not having read one quarter of my book , as himself professes , knows not what crimes or miscarriages , heresies and blasphemies , with the way of making them good , i charge the sectaries with : and yet he will at random , and blindefold undertake to finde as many in a far lesse number of my classique proselytes and party . o what will not this man say , so it may make for the independent party : surely he will startle at nothing who dares speak thus : can you produce as many blasphemies against christ , the scriptures , &c. and finde as many horrid opinions in presbyterians as i have proved to be in sectaries ? where will you finde among the presbyterians , such as hich , wrighter , web , clarkson , marshal , nichols , den , oats , cretens . cum multis aliis ; as for the condition cretens . propounds , upon which he will make good his undertaking , and out at which he hopes to escape , to salve his lying , i do for my own part accept it , and am ready freely and candidly to declare my minde and judgement in all points of religion , and shall perswade others also to do the like : but of this more in my full reply , where i shall shew the fallacy and shift of cretensis in this ; only for the present the reader may observe he puts in these conditions , that so he may provide a sanctuary for all kinde of hereticks and erroneous persons , a a place of retreat for himself one way or other to come off these challenges , which in the plain open field he foresaw he could never do . cretensis page . among other his artifices and devices to weaken the credit of the truth of those matters laid down in gangraena against the sectarian party , labors to possesse the reader , that for saving of my own repute , and to prevent , as much as might be , the thorough examination of the greatest part of what gangraena represents by way of disparagement to the independent party , i printed so many letters without the names of their authors ; and upon this cretensis goes on vaporing and forging in his heretical brain , certain reasons of my concealing the names of the authors of the letters , and in sum , would render me to the reader , a man to be suspected of jugling and forgery , and the letters to be void of all truth . reply . as for that fallacy of cretensis , whereby he labors to delude the reader , infinuating that the letters contain the greatest part of what gangraena represents by way of disparagement to the independent party , and those letters being without names , the names were concealed on purpose for fear of examination of the truth of the letters , and so the letters containing the greatest part of disparagement against the sectaries , the sectaries are as it were at once cleared from what gangraena faith against them ; i say only this . that cretensis is a man of that impudence and large conscience , that he will say any thing , so it may make for the sectaries , and against the presbyterians ; for the letters are not neither in number of sheets the tenth part of gangraena , neither contain they the tenth part of the discovery of the errors , heresies , practises , &c. beside , some things in the letters are of another nature , and to one of the letters is annexed a confutation of the matter contained in it , consisting of two whole leaves of those few sheets , within a few lines . . as for that of jugling and forgery which cretensis would put upon me , the man measures me by himself and his party , because that he and some of his party are used to juggle and possibly forge letters and news , invent and give our many things which never were ; have with the jesuits their piae fraudes to advance their catholike cause , therefore he thinks so of me ; but i blesse god i am a plain man , hating equivocations , mental reservations , plots , underminings of men , playing under-board , carrying things in the clouds ; i count honesty the best policy , and faithful plain dealing the greatest wisdom , and the independents will finde it so in the end , however for a while they prosper by their shufling tricks , devices , policies , as strafford , canterbury , and others did before them . . to come to the main charge of concealing the names of those who writ me letters , and all the inferences drawn from thence : i answer , i have already given some reasons for it , and do adde these unto them ; most of the men who writ the letters , writ them not for that end to be printed , knew not of , nor imagined no such matter , neither did i acquaint them with it , and for me without their leave obtained to print their names to the world , i could not do it , keeping unviolated the rules of friendship , besides i well understood that were a way to cut off correspondency and intelligence for the future , if i should print mens names publikely to the world , writing in a private way to me : of all the letters written to me , there were two only which i expressed to the authors i would print them , and acquainted them with my purpose , whose names notwithstanding ( excepting the two first letters subscribed ) i concealed with the rest for company : but now that i may overthrow cretensis proposition , and his inferences , his foundation , and his superstructures , i shall name most of them who writ the letters to me and others , as also from whose hands i received those letters which were printed by me , though not written to me . the first letter was written me from mr. strong , a member of the assembly of divines , who after he had told me by word of mouth the contents of this letter , promised to send it me in a letter , and i acquainted him then what use it was for , and he said he would justifie what he writ , and named others in whose presence master denne maintained these points . the second letter was written from master simon ford , to a member of the assembly master gower●s , from whose hands i received it , and told mr. gowers i should print it , to which he was willing , and since gangraena was printed , the author writes to me about his letter , that he will enlarge and confirm the particulars in that letter , and send it to me . the third letter was one master josiab ricrasts , who owns it , and hath been with me since cretensis came forth , and to my knowledge is drawing up an answer to cretensis , for so much as concerns that letter . the fourth letter was written by a weaver in somersetshire , one crab ( if i mistake , not the name ) and i received it from m. rosewal a city minister well known , who will own it , and make it good 't is such a mans : and thus i have given an account of the copies of all the whole letters printed by me : now for the extract of certain letters written to me & some other ministers , for seven of them , which are the greatest part of those extracted letters , namely all those which concern colchester and mr. ellis , or some others there ( of which letters mr. ellis himself writes thus to a friend in london ; the aspersions cast on me , and some others here by mr. edwards , are as false as foul ; which because they are a great part of his book and strength , those who are here concerned in it , will , if god please , shortly make reply , cretensis p. . ) he who writ them is not afraid of his name , neither was his name concealed for fear of an examination of the truth of the letters , as cretensis by reading this letter lately sent to me from him may understand , which i here print to a tittle . to my reverend and worthy friend mr. thomas edwards minister of the word of god. reverend sir , there is a passage in mr. iohn goodwins book , charging you with abusing mr. ellis of colchester , and the saints in those parts , and that he will shortly make reply to your false and foul aspersions . these are therefore to certifie you , that concerning those letters i writ unto you from colchester , i have them attested under the hands of many sufficient witnesses , each particular that is material being ayerred by three witnesses at least , and those of piety and judgement ; which attestations i shall keep by me to produce them upon fit occasions to iustifie those letters to the world . yet it is possible he will reply to those things as false and foul , or come off with distinctions and mental reservations ; but these things are so evident in this town , and much more then i writ unto you ( as his preaching for the pulling down of our churches , and other things that i can prove ) that his pamphlet will do him no good in this place . for it will not be the first time that he hath said & unsaid the same things here , denying and dissembling his opinions for advantage , as will be testified by many witnesses , by some of the honorable members of the house of commons , ministers , and others , godly and judicious christians : this i thought good to signifie for the present , recommending you to the grace of god , i rest your affectionate friend and fellow labour in the gospel rob. harmar . april . now by all this the reader may see what to judge of cretensis , and his false glosses and commentaries upon the letters printed in gangraena ; and had i cretensis railing scoffing rhetorick which he makes use of in this section , and in many other places of his book , i might spin out whole leaves in aggravation and scoring up of lyes , evil surmisings , bitter words scoff , and jeers expressed by cretensis upon occasion of the printed letters ; but i forbear to contend with him in this kind ; truth needs not such colors , though errors does to set it off . the hare relation of these things is a sufficient confutation of cretonsis ; and if the printed letters of which cretensis , master ellis , yea and master saltmars● make such a cry of forgerie , falsitie , dare abide the light , and their authors are ready to justifie them , the judicious reader by this may both judge of the truth of other things contained in gangraena , and of the folly and vanity of the rest of cretensis allegations against my book . as for the extract of four or five letters , whose authors names i have not yet mentioned , ther 's no one particular matter of fact , or relation of stories excepted against any of them ; the other letters whose authors i have named , are the foul offensive letters , and therefore i shall spare their names till the truth of the facts related in them be questioned by cretensis in a rejoynder : only for present i assert , i have the original letters by me under the hands of the ministers to produce , and further i make no question , if the evils spoken against in those letters might be remedied , and the proof censured according the nature of their offences , but the ministers who writ them would be ready to come up and own them in the sight of the sun , and prove a great deal more then they have written . and for a conclusion of my reply to this eight sect. of cretensis , had cretensis and his followers but a little presbyterian faith ( which sectaries so scoff at ) and ingenuity , out of all the particulars which i have nakedly and clearly laid down , they would believe that all the letters from first to last were neither forged , nor names conceal'd , for fear of the examination of the truth , nor because my name should be the greater , and rise better by being only known , but be ashamed of all that 's written in this section , especially considering master edwards hath brought all the names of the writers , challenged from out of the land of darknesse , into the land of light , and given such reason ( a● he hath ) for the former concealing of them . cretensis page ii. makes two challenges , casting the glove to whosoever will take it up ; and his first challenge is , that for thirty of those opinions impeached in my catalogue of error a●d heresie ( and he will not say for how many more ) he will undertake to bring them off with the honor of truth . secondly , for that error , viz. that faith in a proper sense is imputed to justification , and not christs righteousnesse ; he challenges all the presbyterians one after another , assembled , or not assembled in england , scotland and ireland to prove by scriptures , or by dint of argument either , that faith is not imputed in a proper sense . reply . the man from challenging me , page third , rises in his confidence to challenge all the world ( as if the man had learning and parts to deal with any man under heaven ) but cretensis needed not to have gone so far , i shall finde him near hand those who will deal with him without going into france , scotland and ireland ; for the first of these , i take up his glove again , and give him his liberty to name twenty and ten of those opinions , and as many more of them as he will , and do promise to enter into the lift with him , that he shall not prove them to be truths , and i expect he should make good his challenge out of hand , at least to set out in his rejoynder to my reply , which of the . errors he will take the tutoridge and patronage of ; and for the second , master roborough ( whom cretensis scoffs at pag. . by the name of servant and clerk ) takes up his glove , and desire me in my reply to signifie thus much unto him : for that jeer of master robor . holding his peace when master gataker hath spoken , his playing on servant and master , justice of peace and clerk , master robor . passeth it by as he hath much bad language from him in his vindication of master walker ; only he faith such gibing and jeering cost him nought ; it s said it runs in the blood , that he had it by tradition , from which is seems he is not yet redeemed for all his singular profession ; master roborough will not deal with him in that for shoe-buckles , cretensis shall have the preheminence ; yet doth he modestly desire an answer to his animadversions on m. goodwins book , and is ready to make his writing good , against cretensis and his complices in further writing , or by a dispute when and where cretensis pleaseth . this the man professeth who is meant in that jeer , the servant or clerk that must hold his peace . and as m. roborough gave me the precedent words in writing , under his hand ; so he added by word of mouth , that he challenges cretensis to dispute this point , about faith being imputed in a proper sense , where , when , before whom , and how he will , leaving him to nominate his own time , place , company , manner of dispute , either by writing or by word of mouth ; by scriptures or by dint of argument , in all which cretensis having this liberty , and so the advantage of him ; yet m. roborough will meet with him and dispute it as cretensis hath stated the question , and that before all the independents assembled or not assembled ; and master roborough much wonders cretensis should thus vapor , and in this point challenge all the presbyterians one after another assembled or not assembled in england , scotland , france and ireland , when as master roborough , who is but a scribe of that assembly , ( of which cretensis would fain have been a member , & as 't is thought by wise men , his great pride working upon discontent in m●ssing of that honor , was one of the greatest cecasions of his falling to independency ) professes that upon a conference & dispute with him , he found him weak , not able to hold his ground , and in a word , a very sorry disputant ; and master roborough offers in that controversie about the imputation of faith to justification , wherein cretensis boasts he is so versed as to challenge all men , ( it cretensis dare give him a meeting ) to manifest as much to all the world in the sight of the sun ; and for a conclusion of my reply to these two bravadoes of cretensis , i desire the reader to observe what an impudent braggadocio this man is , to m●ke new challenges , when as yet he hath not yet accepted of old , but lies miserably wounded both by his own pen , and several others , not having yet answered several books written against him , nor a book he promised above moneth ago to answer , and therefore my advise to cretensis is , first to answer these following books , viz. that of a quaere upon the covenant , and a letter from i. g. to t. g. master roboroughs book of justification written against him , master lanes a yong merchant against that error of natural men may do such things as whereunto god hath by way of promise annexed grace and acceptation , &c. dr. stewart against m. s. this reply to cretensis , and a larger reply already in the presse against cretensis and my antapologie , and after he hath answered all these from point to point , as becomes a scholar with reason and words of sobernesse , and not with rail●gs , scoffs , sixe footed words , then to make his new challenges , and defend . errors , and as many more as he will ( laid down in my catalogue ) and among others , for old acquaintance sake , that of imputation of faith. cretensis page . promises an answer to the antapologie shall be with me ere long ; and that he may abuse me , he abuses the scripture , playing upon that of amos . . resembling his answer to my antapologie to the day of the lord , the judgement of the . yeers captivity , me to the sons of belial ; his foretelling long ago of an answer , as to the prophets predictions of judgement , & that the answer to m. edwards antapol . will not be for his honor , &c. reply . belike i shall have a terrible thundring answer from cretensis , when as it shall be to me as the day of the sore judgement of the . years captivity to the sons of belial , who derided the predictions of the prophets , a day of darknesse , and not of light : i know not well what the man means by this , whether he intend not ( concluding by that time his answer comes abroad to my antapologie the cavaliers will be quite subdued ) to try by his interest if he cannot procure some part of the army call'd by cretensis and his disciples , the saints , the honest men , &c. to carry me into captivity , and to imprison me all my time in a dungeon , where i shall not see the son , nor be able to make no replies , nor never write against the sectaries any more ; this i confesse were like to prove as bad to me as the . yeers captivity to the jews , to be a day of darknesse indeed ; but as for any paper writing , an answer by reasons and words to be so to me like the . yeers captivity and a day of darknesse , i cannot imagine : i had thought cretensis answers would have been rather a day of new light to the world and to me , then a day of darknesse , especially considering what cretensis faith pag. . of light and truth : i am somewhat doubtful and suspitious of cretensis threatnings , because of the ill usage of some ministers by some souldiers , and of many words given out daily by too many of cretensis saints in our armies , against the presbyterian orthodox ministers : i cannot well tell what other construction to make of cretensis words , they are very doubtful and dangereous words ; what an answer , to be as the sore judgement of the . yeers captivity against the sons of belial , and to be darknesse and not light ? i have read & heard of such answers in matters of difference between great men , who instead of an answer in writing , or with an answer in writing have sent an army of ten or twenty thousand men ; and i must tell the reader what increases my fears , i cannot well tell how it first came into my head , but i have had a strong opinion this . moneths , and expressed it to divers , that my antapologie would never be answered till the independents had got that power one way or other as to cast me into prison , to seiz on all my papers and writings by which i should make good my proof , and then they would bring forth an answer to my antapologie : now considering how far and how high in many things the independents have proceeded , and cretensis threating me with such a kind of answer , i am apt to interpret him thus ; and truly were it not that there is a noble general , and the greatest part of the army by farre , as i have expressed often , free from cretens . way , and that i live in a good strong city neer the high court of parliament , and by the honourable court of common-counsel , i should expect and be afraid that his threating might be fulfilled before ever his reply to antapologia would be ready to come abroad : but whereas cretensis saith , that he verily beleeves his answer to my antapologie will not be for my honour , in which respect i have no great ground to be so restlesse and importunate in calling for it : i reply , the antapology ( i am sure ) was for the honour of the cause i undertook , and turned to my honor both at home and abroad , and made not for the honor of the apologists and independent party ; neither do i believe cretensis reply to my antapology will make more for his honor , then this brief answer of his to gangraena : and however for the present cretensis reply when it comes first forth , by his railings , revilings , scoffs and lyes put upon me , may not make for my honor ; yet by that time my rejoynder can be made and printed , it shall appear to all the world , that the whole businesse , both apologetical narration , antapology , cretensis reply , and my rejoynder , will make for the honor of the presbyterian cause , and of my self , as a poor instrument pleading for it against the zanzumins of the time , and to the dishonour both of the apologists and their great champion cretensis . cretensis in this page makes an apology , and gives his reasons why mr. edwards antapology is not answered in so long a time as . moneths , namely , that the independents are not men who have little or nothing to do like presbyterians , having the priviledge of ease to preach to bare walls and pews in their meeting places , nor that shamelesnesse of forehead to make the subject matter of their sermons little else but loose , lying , and frivolous reports and stories , or virulent invectives against the saints as the presbyterians ; neither was the way free and open to bring light into the world , but hedged up with clergy , classique councels as with thorns against them : and besides , mr. edwards took not much lesse then . moneths time for his antapology , and therefore no wonder if the independents be not men of more expedition . reply . cretensis plays the sophister here , making use of that fallacy non causa pro causa , giving the false cause of not replying , and concealing the true ; and that all these are false , is evident : . because cretensis hath had leasure to have attended the motions of my pen , and hath since the moneths given an account to the world more then once , twice , thrice , and had leasure now , the priviledge of ease , to make an answer to gangraena , and could he not with the labour of all these have replyed to antapology ? it should seem for all the weaknesse , contradictions , and such like , which cretensis speaks of antapology , 't is a hard piece that cretensis can write and print five several books , have time enough from his constant and standing labors with those who have committed themselves to him in the lord , before he finde time to reply to antapology : besides , cretensis had five great champions the apologists to assist him in it , some of which will be found to have or to take more priviledge of ease , and seldom preaching then the presbyterians use to take , and some of them have had leasure to print other things since , wherein not so much concerned ; as also cretensis hath a priviledge of ease and idlenesse when he pleases to help himself ( which none of the presbyterians have ) viz. to appoint some of his prophets in his church to preach for him , which he frequently practises upon all occasions , as i can prove , and hath upon pretence of answering my antapology . . some independents have that shamelesnesse of forehead , to make the subject matter of their sermons little else but loose , lying , frivolous reports and stories , or virusent invectives against the saints , &c. as mr. peters , the vicar general and metropolitane of the independents , both in new and old england : and i wonder how cretensis forgot him : name any presbyterian , who is of any account in the church of god , such a loose rambling preacher as he : and for his invectives against the saints , 't is one of his common places in many of his sermons to speak against the reformed churches , the reverend ass●mbly , and the godly presbyterian ministers of the kingdom , who are not only saints , but godly ministers : but mr. peters is not alone , for cretensis himself is a loose preacher , and full of bitter invectives in his sermons against better sain●s and servants of god , then ever himself , or any of his church is like to be ( the particular passages which he hath used in sermons , i will give the reader in my full reply ) and so mr. archer of hausted is famou● , or rather infamous for this , cum multis aliis , whom in my large reply i may adde to these : as for the third reaso● , the way stopt against printing for want of a licénser , i have already refu●ed , and shall speak more to it in my next reply : and for the fourth reason brought by cretensis , to apologize for not replying in moneths , 't is both for matter and form all false , & a man would wonder that cretens : should dare to write so ( though indeed nothing of this kinde is a wonder in cretensis ) . cretensis , how can you answer it to god , to your church , and to all men , to write such a manifest untruth ? that i took not much lesse then eighteen moneths in making the antapology , when as the apologetical narration ( i am sure of it ) came forth in the moneth of december , and to my best remembrance towards the later end of it , and my antapology was printed and abroad either the last week of iune following , or the first of iuly , which at the farthest was not full seven moneths , and is far from eighteen moneths : as for that insinuation of cretensis joyned to the eighteen moneths , the advantage of liberty , and freedom from other ingagements which mr. edwards had above other men , 't is a false one ; for from that time i began to answer apologet. narration , till it came forth , i never had lesse liberty or freedom in my life , nor more businesses and engagements of several sorts in reference to the publike , preaching in that time of writing my book very often , three times a week constantly , and many times four , besides the tedious journeys between london and godalming , riding to preach there ; together with all the difficulties and fears of many alarums from the enemy , &c. in that time . but before i draw to a conclusion of this , i desire the reader to observe what a proud arrogant speech this is of cretensis to extoll himself and his party , with the contempt and scorn of the presbyterians , if independent ministers had either the priviledge of ease to preach to the bare walls and pews in their meeting places : now for this in my large reply i will acquaint the reader what privileges independent ministers and independent saints have and take above the presbyterians , and what their priviledge of ease and idlenesse is above the presbyterians , as also shew the true reasons why the world wanders after the beast , many of the independents are so stockt after before presbyterians ; as also by what a sort of people , and what little cause cretensis and his saints have to glory and boast of it ; and when i have spoken to that at large , i believe i shall be out of cretensis debt for these words . only for present i shall tell cretensis these three things . . that there are presbyterian ministers who preach no more to bare walls and pews then cretensis and the independent ministers , mr. marshal , mr. whitaker , mr. calamy , mr. sedgwick , cum multis aliis , both in city and countrey . . there are many independent ministers who have preached lately , and do so still as much to bare walls and pews as any presbyterians , witnesse mr. burton , mr. davis , mr. freak , mr. ellis , mr. furman , &c. . presbyterians do not use however independents may ( as cretensis in his speech implyes ) to have ever the more priviledge of ease by preaching to a few rather then to many , by preaching to a hundred two or three , or preaching to a thousand or two , for they preach out of conscience and discharge of duty , to do good to the souls of men , and not for applause to please a multitude , and therefore t is all one to them whether there be fewer or more , one hundred or many ; but this is expressed according to the independent humor , who have their sermons of several sorts , those of greater pains and study when their pews and walls are full , and their sermons of ease when their pews are empty , and their walls bare . now to put a period to this fourteen section , with an animadversion upon that passage of cretensis in pag. . his constant and standing labors with those who have committed themselves to him in the lord. i ask of cretensis where he findes this used of a people to commit themselves unto the ministers ; we are commanded to commit our way to the lord , and to commit our souls to him , and of god 't is oft used ; but in what place is it of people to ministers , and then those who have committed themselves to you ; why did you not say to the church rather ? what is cretensis become the church ? and lastly , why was it not as well expressed , those to whom i have committed my self unto in the lord ? for i believe upon better consideration , it will be found , that cretensis hath as much committed himself to his people , as they to him ; for they preach and rule as well as cretensis ; and believe upon examination ( the church will be found to preach oftner then cretensis , for all his constant and standing labors ) and his yong prophets to exercise upon the week and lords day , and he bound to hear and obey them as well as they him : and now if how the cobler were alive again , cretensis and he would have no more disputation and difference about humane learning necessary to the interpreting of scriptures , and preaching of the word , seeing cretensis allows it now in his church members far inferior to how , and cretensis would crave pardon of him for abusing him , so as he did upon that controversie ; and for a recompence unto him , mr. how should be preferred to be teacher in cretensis church ; mr. cretensis the pastor , and mr. how the teacher ; for belike humane learning is not now necessary to the preaching of the word ; and sure we shall one day have a book of cretensis retractations and confessions , and might have had it before this time , but that cretensis knows not how his minde may change again , and what new light he may yet have ; and so he will stay till he dyes , that we may have it altogether , and without any more change . cretensis sect : . pag. . , . with a great many of flourishing words and a bold face , labors to possesse the reader , that in my antapology and gangraena i have done nothing else almost but labored with might and main to call for fire from hell to destroy the saints , to inflame the powers of this world with hatred and bloodinesse of spirit against the sons and daughters of god , and to importure the civil magistrate to pour out themselves in wrath and indignation against them , charging me with a bloody negotiation in writing gangraena , inveteracenesse and dragon-likenesse of spirit , and how diametrally opposite in the cause and courses i take against sectaries , i am to christ , paul , austin , calvin and luther . reply . cretensis goes upon a false foundation , supposing all those to be saints , the sons and daughters of god , whom i speak against in gangraena , which is stark false , and of which i shall give in my large reply a satisfactory account to the world of that mistake ; for however they are cretensis saints , they are none of gods saints , and the man erres , not knowing the scriptures ; they may well go for saints in cretensis kalender , but never in my creed , neither go they for saints in mr. thomas goodwins late * sermon before the house of commons , but are there blotted out by him . . what ever i speak in both my books upon this point to the civil magistrate , is no other but what the scripture clearly holds out ; and though i have done it with affection and zeal , yet not with bitternesse nor bloodinesse , and i am confident that cretensis nor all his compeers cannot in all their r●ading shew me two books of any divine who proves so much , and so foul things as i do in my antapology and gangraena , written with more moderation , fairnesse , and with lesse bitternesse ; and ●et cretensis in his 〈◊〉 book instance in any bloody bitter passages , alwayes provided , he wrest not words nor leave out no part of sentences . . the sectaries themselves and cretensis too will one day confesse master edwards in opposing errors , heresies , discoveri●g them , and stirring up the mag●strates to their duty , was their good friend , a merciful man , one who both with fear and compassion would have saved them out of the fire ; and i would ask cretensis , whether are they more merciful , tender , that will not let little children , sick persons , mad men do what they will , go where they please , eat what they list ; or they who use all good means to hinder them , and provide wholsome food and medicines for them ; yea , i am of the minde , before a yeer comes about the magistrates and kingdom will say master edwards , and those men who either by writing or preaching spoke most against the errors , heresies , schisms of the times , and toleration , and stirred us up to hinder and suppresse their growth , were most merciful both to the souls and bodies of men , and to the kindoms , and far from bloodinesse , bitternesse , or inveteratenesse . . whosoever doth but well read the scriptures , and observe what quick sharp passages are there recorded to have come from the mouth of christ and his apostles against errors , heresies , and false teachers , yea , sharper and more spoken against false doctrines and false teachers , then against bad manners , ( as for instance , matthew . . galatians . , . and . , . peter . , , . iohn . , . the whole epistle of iude , revelation . , , , , . with a hundred other such ) will never blame me for bitternesse , bloodinesse , inveteratenesse , &c. furiousnesse and over eagernesse in my opposing errors and false teachers , who according to my poor measure have endeavoured in opposing errors , to follow the example of christ and his apostles , though i have fallen far short of my duty in this kinde , not improving my time and ●alents , but wanting in that zeal , courage , diligence , requisite to this work : ( and however cretensis and his compeers think i have over-done ) yet i have great cause to be deeply humbled for doing no more , and to hie me into my study , and cry , misirere mei domine : but to draw to a conclusion , i shall in ▪ this case answer cretensis and all the sectaries who accuse me , and cry out of my eagernesse and over-doing , as luther did erasmus , charging him for too much vehemency . but that i have dealt in this cause more vehemently i confesse it a fault , if it be a fault ; yea i do wonderfully rejoyce this testimony to be given to me in the world in the cause of god : and o that god himself would confirm this testimony in the last day , who then should be happier then luther , who is commended by such a testimony of the age he lived in , that he did not handle the cause of truth slothfully and deceitfully , but vehemently enough , or rather too much ? then should i happily escape that of jerem. cursed be he that doth the work , &c. . the bitternes , bloodines , &c. with which cretens . labours to load me , will be found in cretensis and the sectaries , and as they grow in power and number , will be discovered every day more and more ; can any man think that cretensis who hath so much rage and malice in his heart , and so much gall in his pen , ( as he discovers in this book against all presbyterians ) would not if he had power do as much with his hand● , and be another bonner , or another iohn of leyden ? god keep the presbyterians out of the hands of the independents and sectaries when they come to have power , and think they are strong enough to master them ; doth not cretensis discover his bloody mindednesse against me in the three last lines , of this . section , inviting as it were some of his sectaries to fall upon me , preaching that doctrine to them . that whatsoever i shall suffer by any sectary for writing against them , i shall suffer but as a malefactor and an evil doer ; now for proof of the bloody mindednesse , persecution and liberty of conscience which the sectaries will give the orthodox , when they come to be stronger , and of all the means they use , and wayes they take to give the presbytery liberty of conscience , i shall in my full reply to cretensis , speak at large : only for present thus much , they labour to get all the power of arms they possibly can into their hands , and the command of all the great towns and ci●ies , and by one way or other to turn out of place , keep out , obstruct , blast all cordial zealous presbyterians , all which , no doubt , are done to give the presbyterians liberty of conscience , and now they give the presbyterians good words viz. that they will send them packing to rome , that it were a good deed they were hanged , and knocked on the head , their guts goared out , that they are antichristian priests , cursed priests , damned priests , with such like ; all which no doubt , are forerunners of the liberty of conscience the sectaries intend for the presbyterians ; and for the proof i will give cretensis a few instances . the first is from lynne , ( a place well known to cretensis ) concerning one iohnson a sectary and a cannoneer , who discoursing concerning presbyterians and independents , said that presbyterians would have their guts goared out ; and being answered that the presbyterial government was ordered by both houses of parliament , and that he being in the service ought not to speak against them , he answered for all that , they should have their guts goared out : now this and more will be averred upon o●th , and is subscribed by four hands , iohn feek , robert cut●ord , thomas edis , richard robinson . march . . th● s●cond is of my self ●old 〈◊〉 me both by a godly minister , and by a gentleman of worth and honesty , who were ear witnesses ; namely , that that it was pity i was not hanged for an example for making my last book , and that it were a good deed i were knockt on the head . a third is of another minister , a presbyterian , an active man , some independents in the hearing of ● minister ( who relates it ) said they hoped ere long to see him in lollards tower● : the last i shall instance is a passage ou● of a letter sent from dover subscribed by five hands , concerning an independent there , one master mascal , that in his expounding the scriptures , with much vehemency cries out to the people against our present ministery , your priests , your damned priests , your cursed priests &c. now cretensis i challenge you in all my bloody negotiations against the sectaries ( as you phrase it ) to show in any of my books any such passage against the sectaries as these are , or any so bit●ter as i can produce out of yours and other of your saints books , as arraignment of persecution , &c. cretensis in sect. . and . layes down four things , . that in the . error of this catalouge i intended to arraign his opinion concerning the imputation of faith , and non-imputation of christs righteousnesse in iustification . . that i do falsly and forgingly represent the opinion by fathering that mangrel expression 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 credere upon it , and which is no where used by him throughout the controversie . . that i charge him to quote calvin , bu●er , & affirm others for his opinion in the point of iustification , whom yet i affirm to be professedly of another judgement in the doctrine of iustification , which he declares to be false , and then quotes some places out of calvin , bucer , for the justifying of himself , and disproving my former allegation . . he recriminates , asperses , and jeers at me , that in my going about to rectifie the mistakes of others , and being the great aristarchus of the errors , and heresies of the times , have my self vented atheological and putid assertions in the point of iustification , as in gangraena page . . in the margin , and that if calvin and bucer be not for him , but i shall stand still to deny it , he must professe ingenuously that he knows no reason but to judge me uncapable of the english sense of a latin sentence ; and that if i deny calvin , bucer , and others whom he quotes to be of the same judgement with him in the point of iustification , then i either shew my self to be a very illiterate man , and not able to construe a peece of plain latin , or else charge calvin , bucer , and the rest , with being of a judgement as contrary to themselves as to him , and then quoting calvin , speaks to me , if i can construe latin , to confesse in english whether calvin be of a differing judgement from him in the point of iustification . reply . 't is a sign cretentis hath a quilty conscience , that upon the naming of an error about iustification , without the least reflecting upon him in any kind , he should take it so to himself , as to say i meant him particularly ; there are divers other sectaries besides cretensis who hold this error , whom i might aime at , and did intend as well as master goodwin . secondly i have neither falsly nor forgingly represented the opinion in using that expression of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 credere , though i should grant that to be true , ( which yet i do not ) that cretensis hath never in sermons , disputations nor books written by him expressed himself after this manner . . because there being other sectaries besides cretensis holding the same opinion , if they have used tò credere in discourses , and defended it , that 's enough to justifie me . in cretensis books of justification , 't is more then once affirmed in terminis that faith in a proper sense , is imputed to justification , and not christs righteousnesse imputed , and now indeed he sayes and unsaies , shuffles and cuts , seems to say the same with other divines , and then presently the con●rary , i shall show ( god willing ) at large in my full reply . . tò credere used by me in setting down this error , cannot be justly termed a representing the opinion falsely and forgingly , it being used commonly by all divines that handle this opinion , both by the orthodox who writ against it , and those who are for it : arminius holding this opinion , used this expression as learned gomaras in a conference held with * arminius , proved from arminius own hand writing , wherein he maintained that in mans justification before god , the righteousnesse of christ not to be imputed to justification , but faith is self , or tò credere by the gracious acceptance of god to be that righteousnesse of ours by which we are justified before god ; yea , and * mr. wotton himself cretensis master speaks so , but when we say faith justifies , we understand ipsum credere , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; . for that charge against cretensis of quoting calvin , bucer , and and others for him , when they are known ex professo to be of another judgement , ●tis most true and just , and a man would wonder at the impudency of cretensis to deny it , and to quote calvin and bucer again as he does ; and before i have done with cretensis it shall appear that i will make good the charge against him , and yet neither show my self a very illiterate man , not able to construe a peece of plain latin , nor yet charge calvin , luther , and the rest with being of a judgement contrary to themselves , but discover him to be an impudent caviller and falsifier of authors . as for those very places quoted by him out of calvin , they prove not the thing he quotes them for , and therefore did wisely forbear to english them : he wretchedly and miserably wrests them , as that on galath . . . where calvin both in the words going before the words quoted by cretensis , and afterwards at large , showes he takes faith not in a proper sense , but in a relative , respecting the object ; and to satisfie the reader , i will quote calvins words upon that place next immediatly following the sentence quoted by him out of calvin . ergo justificari fide dicimur , non quia fides habitum aut qualitatem in nos transfundat : sed quia deo accepti sumus . cur autem fidei tribuitur tantus honor , ut 〈◊〉 causa justitiae nostrae ; primo sciendum est esse causam instrumentalo● dunta●at ; nam propr●e loquendo , justitia nostra nihil a liud est quam grat●it● dei acceptio , in qua sundata est nostra salus : sed quia dominus testimonium amoris nobis amoris sui & gratiae per evangelium reddendo , illam quam dixi justitiam nobis communicat : ideo fide illam percipimus . ergo quam fidei tribuimus hominis justificationem non de causa principali disputamus ; sed tantum notamus modum quo perveniunt homines ad veram justitiam . justitia enim haec merum est dei donum , non qualitas quae in hominibus haereat , sed fide tantum possidetur , neque id merito fidei ut sit quasi debita merces : sed quia fide recipimus quod deus ultro donat . i forbear to english this pass●ge leaving it to cretensis , to have a proof of him whether he will not be as false in his translations as in his quotations ; so those words of calvin on rom. . v. make nothing at all to prove the imputation of faith and the non-imputation of christs righteousnesse , but even upon those verses calvin expresses several passages to the contrary , as they who turn to the places may see : and for bucer mr. wotton himself acknowledges he was of another judgement , speaking thus of him , whom i perswade my self to have been the author of this opinion of imputation ; besides reformed divines generally , not only two or three , but all are against this opinion of the imputation of faith , and non-imputation of christs righteousnesse , and for proof of this the reader may peruse mr. roboroughs examination of cretensis treatise of justification , first part page , . where he showes that all our divines are against faith in a proper sense , luther , calvin , bucer , pareus , ursinus , musculus , &c. ( however arminius and bertius were for it ) unto which cretensis never to this day made any reply ( though he vapors and brag● thus of his opinion of imputation of faith ) so also the preface to the churches , set before the acts of the synod of dor● showes the same by gomarus particularly instancing in , and convincing arminius of his hetorodoxnes from holding of this opinion , that in justification the righteousnesse of christ was not imputed , but beleeving : and now considering all this , and much more that hath been said and written to cretensis , i cannot but wonder he should be such an impudent cretensis as to bring these places out of calvin , bucer , pareus , and can give no other reason of it , but that of paul to titus concerning hereticks , that the man sins in this , being condemned of himself ; and for this error , and many more which cretensis holds ( notwithstanding all his palliating and daubing ) i hold them so great , and the differences in opinions between him and i to be of such moment , that as gomarus told arminius , he durst not appear before the judgement seat of christ with his opinions , so neither would i with cretensis opinions , nor his wayes of managing them for a thousand worlds : as for cretensis charging me with venting errors in the point of justification , whilst i was reckoning up the errors of others , i reply , cretensis takes advantage from a word or two left out by the printer in the margin of my book , which was not the fault of my copy , as i am ready to satisfie any man , and to make it appear undeniable , besides in the second impression of my book ( which came forth full fourteen dayes before cretensis answer ) the mistake was amended ; however the sense of the word before it was amended easily shewed where the fault was , though cretensis aggravate it so high , as to make it amount to atheological and putid assertions . but in one word to stop the mouth of cretensis , what i say of justification in the margin of page . t is verbatim to a tittle in the new annotations on the bible , made by the joynt labours of certain learned divines appointed thereunto by authority , and whatever in the first impressiō was mistaken in that particular by the fault of the printer , was in the second long before cretensis animadversions amended by me , so that the reader may observe that cretensis for want of matter findes fault where the fault is confessed to his hand ; and had i any hope cretensis could understand latin when it makes against his opinion of the imputation of faith , and would be convinced , i would turn him over to divers learned men to english their latine sentences , as peter martyr , lubbertus , sibrandus &c. where the man should read other manner of evidence against non-imputation of faith , and for imputation of christs righteousnesse , then ever he yet offered in all his sermons and discourses about justification ; but for a conclusion , cretensis answer me one question , why did you not as well except against some other opinions named in my catalogue , viz. . . as this . of faith in a proper sense imputed to justification ; you were as much named and particularized in them as in this , and they call you father as well as this ; but i suppose the reason , you were not yet willing in publique to own those children , and so would take no notice of them , though i doubt not those and other things laid down in my book ( though without your name written upon them ) enraged you , and have made you as a bear robbed of her whelps , to think that i should know so much by you . cretensis , p. . sect. . labours to clear himself from a passage i charged him with , that he should utter in a sermon against the parliament and their power , &c. saying , it was nothing else but a manifest and clear truth , and that which had passed the trial of presbyterian fire it self , & was come forth in ful weight without suffering the le●st damage or detriment by it , and if any such gap was opened by it to slight their authority and power , he knowes no wilde beasts have broke in at it , but some presbyterians ; and then goeth on according to his dialect to inveigh against me for ●●●lling at the root of parliamentary authority and power , because that i finde fault with his truth ( as he cals it ) viz. his speaking so disgracefully and contemptibly of the parliament . reply . o the impudence and incorrigiblenesse of cretensis , after so high an offence committed by him against parliamentary authority , complained of to a committee of parliament , upon the debate of it judged by some of the committee to be an offence of that high nature , that these words were expressed of him , & of his offence , that he as much or rather more deserved to be hang'd then the arch-bishop , yea the whole committee judged it of such a nature and crime , as too great for them to censure , so that it was ordered to be reported by the chair-man to the house it self , and master white told me more then once , he was by order of the committee to report it ( though by many great businesses of the kingdom he was hindred ) now i say that after all this cretensis should in the sight of the sun justifie it for a manifest and clear truth , and flye out upon me and my abbettors for finding fault with him , is a strange hight ; certainly cretensis , if what you had said had been such a manifest and clear truth , t is wonder such words should be spoken in the committee of it , and the thing ordered to be reported to the house it self , as to high for a committee ; and that your words spoken against the parliament were not a manifest truth ; i refer the reader to such a book of mr. * pryns , to your own confession in your answer to him , and to the record kept by the cōmittee for plundred ministers . as for the reason you intimate why that which was uttered by you , was nothing els but manifest & clear truth , because it hath pass●d the trial of presbyterian fire it self , & is come forth in full waight , without suffering the least dammage or detriment of it , that is , upon complaint and examination of it by a committee of parliament you are come off , and not censured . i reply , the reader may observe that presbyterian fire is a cooler , softer , gentler fire then the independent fire ; and that the presbyterians are not so 〈◊〉 crying for fire from hell to destroy all those who receive the lord christ , only because their faces are not instanly set to receive the traditions of their discipline and doctrine ; for cretensis hath passed the trial of presbyterian fire it self , and is come forth in full waight without suffering the least damage or detriment by it : i beleive if either i , or any known cordial presbyterian in england in speaking against the independent party , had said so much to the vilifying and contempt of the parliament as cretensis did , in speaking against presbyterians , and we had come to the trial of independent fire it self , we should never have come forth in full waight without suffering the least damage or detriment by it , but we should have carried to our graves the scorching and skars of that fire , if not wholy consumed by it . 〈◊〉 though you were one of the first ; yet you are not alone , nor the last of those who by writing or speaking having uttered things against the parliament , and being questioned by committees have passed the trial of presbyterian fire , and come off too , witnesse your brother lilburn , and yet all they have said and written , have not been manifest and clear truths : you who are independents and sectaries have priviledges in many things which poor presbyterians have not ; you have a priviledge to steal horses , cretensis pag. whereas 't is a great fault in presbyterians to look over the hedge ; you have a priviledge to set up churches and a government of your own without leave , or waiting on the parliament ; but 't is a great offence in the presbyterians to petition the parliament in all humility to settle the presbyterian government , witnesse those many reproches in some printed news books ( those pensioners of the independent party ) as also the bitter preaching against their petitions by some independent ministers , with the hard speeches cast out against them by the independent party , you belike have a priviledge to preach , print , speak any thing against parliament , their ordinances , orders , covenant , members : yea to act against their votes , ordinances , and to passe the trial of presbyterian fire ( as you terme it ) and to come forth in full waight without suffering the least damage or detriment , whereas i am perswaded a great deal lesse preached or printed by presbyterians , would have been censured to be burnt by the hand of the common hangman , and the men themselves in danger of hanging . thirdly ; cretensis , you have no such reason to bo●st so of what you have preach'd , that t is a manifest and clear truth and hath passed the presbyterian fire it self , and is come forth in full waight , &c. till you know what the sense of the house of commons will be upon it ; when 't is reported to the house according to the order of the committee , and the house hath cleared you , then you might better have used these words ; but cretensis , though you say the bitternesse of death is past , all danger is over , you may be deceived , quod desertur non aufertur , the house may be at more leasure and call upon such kinde of things , and upon a review you may be made to know what 't is , not only to slight and vilifie a parliament , open a gap to a total contempt of all their authority and power , but when you have done so , then openly and publikely to justifie that what you have said is a manifest and clear truth . cretensis i tell you plainly , i would not for all the books in my study , the independens could prove such words spoken by me against the power and dignity of parliament , how light account soever you make of them . fourthly , the reader may by this clearly see what to judge of cretensis charging me and my book with lying forgery &c. when as he is not ashamed to tax me in this place , that i could not lightly have uttered any thing that struck more dangerously at the very root of all parliamentary authority and power , then to say that cretensis in speaking against the parliament and their power , opened a gap to sl●ghting of their authority and power ; what a strange art and faculty hath cretensis as of making all authors for him , though they writ against him ; so of making master edwards , and his abettors in pleading for the parliament against cretensis , to strike dangerously at the very root of all parliamentary authority and power ? and that notwithstanding for the words cretensis spake against the parliament he was complained of to the committee of plundered ministers by understanding men and cordial to the parliament , and the matter so deeply resented by the honourable committee , as i have already expressed ; but the truth of it is , cretensis in all his writings , both in point of opinions , and words that he utters in defence of them , he will say any thing as manifestly contrary to truth , as to affirm black is white , and darknesse light ; neither will he be beaten out of it by any reason , but hides himself , and clouds things in a multitude of words , where an ordinary reader loses himself as in a wood . fifthly , 't is strange cretensis , you dare say that you know none but presbyterians have broken in at the gap you have made , do you not know what lilburn hath done ? besides have you not read englands birthright , the ordinance for tythes dismounted ? cum multis aliis ? you indeed lead the way , and was the first of all the pretended friends to the parliament , out of discontent in missing a place in the assembly ) who spake so slightly and scornfully of the parliament ; but many have followed you and broken in at it , both in sermons , discourses , printed books , especially when any thing the parliament was about displeased them : but as for the presbyterians respects , duty , patient waiting on the parliament , as 't is already evident to many ; so i doubt not , but in due time it will be manifested to all the world to their honour , and the shame of the independent party ; and i challenge you to instance in any one presbyterian , who hath either abused the whole parliament , or singled out many particular members by name , as many of your sectaries have done ; but of the difference in the carriage and behaviour of the presbyterians to the parliament , and of the sectaries to the parliament , i have at large satisfied the reader in gangraena , page , , , , , . all which cretensis takes no notice of , not giving the least answer unto it , and therefore cretensis before you vapour any more in this kinde , remember in your rejoynder , to answer all i have said against your party , in those pages now mentioned . cretensis sect. . makes a great deal of do , spending many leaves in excusing himself , and some of his church for bowling on a day of publike thanksgiving , telling the reader it was in the evening , and in the company of presbyterians , and but for about half an hour ; and he relates a story of four presbyterians spending an afternoon upon a day of thanksgiving in fishing ; and threatens that if i go on in telling tales of independents , he or some others will tell stories of presbyterian mistakes in the night , and of a presbyterian angel , who hath committed some foul offence , yea and that he hath a manuscript by him concerning master edwards himself , which discovereth his jugling , and indirect walking between the two towns of godalming in surry , and dunmow in essex ; and that if there be no remedy , it will be content to submit it self to the presse , and therefore concludes if i go on to lay open the sectaries ; i have devoted the names and reputation of all presbyterians who are obnoxius to the universal abhorring both of the present and future ages , and therefore saith it concerns all presbyterians in general , and the doctorage of this way more particularly to heal the gangren of my pen , and to restrain the further spreading of it , otherwise their names and reputations are but so many dead corpses . reply . i shall reserve many things i could answer to this section , till my full reply , and for present say these few things ; first , cretensis after two whole leaves spent , and a mountain of words cast up , confesses in the close the thing i charged him with , that he played at bowls on a day of publique thanksgiving , only he minces , extenuates , hides his sin all he may , speaking of it very tenderly , stirring himself a little by casting a bowl , betaking himself for about half an hour to the exercise ; the sun being by that time either down , or very neer it . now these words of cretensis , b●ings to my mind that answer of aaron to moses about the golden calf ; then i cast the gold into the fire , and there came out this calf ; as if the calf made it self , and came out without hands : so cretensis cast a bowl &c. how much mo●e becomming a christian , and a minister of the gospel had it been , for master goodwin to have given glory to god , and to have said as iob , if i covered my transgressions as adam , by hiding mine iniquity in my bosome ; but as cretensis throughout his whole discourse , hath twenty & ten fetches about , to palliat , excuse , slite , make a mock of all the horrid heresies , blasphemies , and practises of all the sectaries spoken of by me , so doth he the same here of himself and some of his church . now that the reader may be undeceived , though the first relation of this busines was told me accidentally as it was to another , without inquiry or thought on my part ( though then so spoken , as by circumstances i concluded it to be true ; ) yet since cretensis answer came for●h i have enquired more particularly into it , and i have it upon good ground to be after this manner ; cretensis preached in the morning , but in the afternoon was at no sermon , not joyning himself to spend the latter part of the day with any of the society of gods people in thanksgiving for so great a victory ; but in the afternoon went a walking with some of his church , and after that to bowls , and instead of cretensis about half an hour , that he stirred himself a little by casting a bowl ; he played at bowls about two hours ; and give over at such time , ( which therefore is not probable to be when the sun was gon down , ) that another company came and played after them . now i could animadvert divers things upon this relation of cretensis , aswell as cretensis hath pag. , , , . viz . that we may see independents have a priviledge of ease , yea , and of prophanesse too , to sit idle at home , or walk abroad to take their pleasure , when the poor presbyterians are either preaching or praying , or else joyning themselves to the assemblies , where preaching , prayer and other holy worships are performing ; and if cretensis will pretend he was a weary of his preaching in the forenoon , and so somewhat indisposed to further labour that day ; i answer , this is just bishoplike , who when their lordships had preached in a forenoon , they were so weary they could not so much as come to church that afternoon ; but cretensis , though you were so weary as you could not preach , could you not have come , and given thanks for the victory ; nay , if that had been too much trouble for your lordship , because of your great wearinesse and indisposedness after your great labors , to have gone abroad to some of the presbyterians churches ; could you not have gathered your church together in your house , appointed some of your prophets to have exercised , and you only have sate by as at other times , resting your weary bones . truly cretensis in my minde this is a very poor put off , and sorry shift . . cretensis for all his wearinesse and indisposednesse to further labour of preaching , or hearing that day , yet was so eager upon his sports that he knew not how the time went away making a long half hour , reckoning half an hour for two hours ▪ but cretensis might easily mistake in this , and i shall excuse him , it being usual for men in their sports to think time short , and to judge they have not been an hour when they have been playing two or three ; but i will spare cretensis and animadvert no farther for present , neither on the story nor on his animadversions upon it . secondly , as for that cretensis brings by way of excuse , some presbyterians played with him , &c. i answer , it was their fault and sin , neither will i go about to plead for baal , nor palliate excuse things that are evil in presbyterians , as cretensis doth all kind of horrid blasphemies and heresies in his sectaries : however cretensis is never the lesse in fault because of company ; and indeed cretensis being a minister , should have given them ( being private christians ) better example , besides who knows but cretensis example drew these presbyterians to it , and further 't is likely these presbyterians had been in the afternoon at some presbyterian church , offered up to god both a morning and evening sacrifice of thanksgiving , came from home later then cretensis and his brethren , neither doth cretensis say the presbyterians came forth with him , but as he tels his own tale , he relates that after his walking about a quarter of a mile ( which might be a mile , as well as his half hours bowling two hours ) and after his coming into the garden , and sitting about half an hour in an arbour ( which we may well reckon for an hour to ) came in some of master edwards judgement of church-government ; all which being considered , makes the matter not so bad in the prebyterians as in cretensis , but supposing all this , yet i will not excuse them . thirdly , as for that story of one of the assembly with three more of his com — or sub ▪ presbyters , rather four ministers in all ( expressed by cretensis all a long in a scoffing , yea in a prophane manner ; bringing in heaven and gods providence to make up his jefts and jeers ) spending a whole afternoon upon a day of thanksgiving in fishing . i greatly blame them , and if there was any such thing , they have cause to be ashamed of it as well as you for your bowling ; and it had been fitter for them four ministers to have been fishing for the souls of men , preaching somewhere in the afternoon , then a catching of roaches ; and thus you see cretensis i am impartial , not ( like the independents ) excusing all things in presbyterians as they in sectaries though never so vilde , and therefore your proverb of presbyterians having a priviledge to steal horses holds not as you see , for i am against a toleration of them to look on . fourthly , as for your threats of discovering presbyterian mistakes in the night , and to leave the world to judge whether they be not worse then independents bowling on dayes , &c. and of the story of a presbyterian angel which you will clap to my mouth , and stop it for ever : i answer , do your worst , discover what presbyterian mistakes in the night you can , and tell what stories you please of a presbyterian angel , i fear you not , it will not stop my month : i blesse god , he who keepeth the feet of his saints , hath so preserved me , that i care not what all the sectaries under heaven can say against me , i blesse god , i have whereof to rejoyce and glory before men ( though before god i know my manifold weaknesses and transgressions , and have nothing to glory in but the free mercy of god , and the righteousnesse of jesus christ ) and therefore cretensis i● you mean me , by mistakes in the night , and by presbyterian angel ( as your words seem to infinuate , speaking unto me , and the reader may be apt to take your meaning so ) speak out , do your worst , i defie you and all your company to prove any such things , or but the suspition of them ; for i must tell you cretensis , i have ever since i came to be a preacher of the gospel walked by that rule of the apostle , providing honest things , not only in sight of the lord , but in the sight of men : and as for other presbyterian ministers , if any of them have walked loosely and scandalously , let them look to it , i will be no patron for them , neither will i have my mouth stopped from opening the errors , heresies , practises of the sectaries , or laying open by name impostors and seducers , to gratifie the concealment of somthing soul in a presbyterian , let them bear the shame of it for all me , and give god glory in confessing ; only i would desire cretensis and the reader to observe the difference between my discourse of errors , heresies , and practises in sectaries , and cretensis discovery threatned . . cretensis discovery will be out of revenge , malice , because the errors of the sectaries are laid open , and which otherwise he implies should not have been discovered , and if i would cease laying open the errors of the times , those stories should never have come to light ; but now my catalogue was and is purely out of conscience , not out of ill-will to any man , but to preserve many from falling , and to recover others before they are gone too far . . the errors , practises , wayes which i lay down throughout my book , are the very principles and wayes of the sectaries as such sectaries , either being their opinions , or flowing necessarily from them , or are means made use of by them to increase their way , compasse their designs , whereas any personal miscarriages of the presbyterians are far from falling under any such considerations ; but the fruits of the flesh and satan taking advantage upon them , of which things they have no fruit , but are ashamed and have repented . . these errors and practises in the sectaries are now found in them , cleaving to them since , and not before they turn'd sectaries , whereas these miscarriages of the presbyterians , are not now upon them , nor never since they were presbyterians , but may be many years before , when episcopal and foolish . . the independents and sectaries cry up themselves and their way as a purer , holier way then other mens , making themselves the only saints , the paradise of god , the tender conscienced men , thereupon separating from our churches , and accounting the presbyterians as a dunghil ; which kinde of notions among the people , crying the saints , the saints , tender consciences hath gained them more then all their arguments ; and therefore to take off this argument , 't is necessary to shew they are not holier then others , neither have tenderer consciences , but are looser , and larger conscienced men : and i ask cretensis , when as bellarmine and other papists bring against protestants holin●sse of life as a note of the church of rome , and boast of the great holinesse that is in their church above what is in the protestants ; whether do not the * protestants justly and properly to disprove them , give instances and stories of the wicked lives and ways of many papists , besides of the doctrines in the church of rome ; and if the protestants do it and are blamelesse , how can it be a fault in the presbyterians to do the same , when they are to answer the sectaries ? but now the presbyterians do not separate from the independents out of pretences of greater holinesse , nor cry up themselves in sermons and books as the only saints , and therefore the independents cannot so justly bring these things against the presbyterians , as the presbyterians against them . . as for that manuscript which came to cretensis above a year since concerning mr. edwards , which discourseth his jugling and indirect walking between the two towns of godalming in survey , and dunmow in essex , which will be attested by good hands , and be content to submit it self to the presse : i reply , let cretensis print it when he please , i challenge him to do it , so he print nothing but what he will make good ; i remember 't is a speech of famous mr. bolton in some of his works , innocency and independency makes men of the bravest spirits , i blesse god i have innocency , knowing nothing by my self of fault in this matter , and i have independency , being an independent in a true notion , not hanging upon great men , nor hunting after preferments and great livings , and i desire the reader to observe what i shall say of this matter , cretensis could hardly have instanced in a busines to make more for my praise , and his shame , then this ; and if he be able to give me any one instance of an independent and sectary that hath so denyed himself for the publike , and for strangers , as i did in that , i shall begin to think there are independents in england who seek the publike good , and not their own things . and for the matter of dunmow , i have so much certainty and confidence of it , that if it were known commonly , it would turn to my great honor ( which here cretensis threatens me with as a matter of reproach , and indeed the only thing , which belike cretensis in all his gathering and enquirings after me , could light upon to upbraid me with ) as that i dare refer it and stand to the arbitrament of mr. thomas goodwin , mr. burroughs , mr. bridge , ( whom all the world knows , through difference of judgement , are not my best friend● ) whether in that businesse i be to be blamed , or rather have not done a singular thing , and like a man who hath walked circumspectly , avoiding all appearance of evil : and truly cretensis you may give a loser leave to speak , which for the present i shall do briefly ( reserving the large relation , both of dunmow and godalming , to my fuller reply ) and whatever i speak , and much more will be attested under the hands of many godly ministers , some dwelling neer dunmow , and acquainted with this businesse from first to last , others , members of the assembly intrusted also in it , and under the hands of divers godly persons of the town , fully knowing the businesse , together with the minister of the town , the now present incumbent . in brief , the great businesse of my jugling and indirect walking between the two towns of godalming in surrey , and dunmow in essex , was this , that to prevent the coming in , and for removing out one gotten in against the consents and liking of the godly people , and the ministers intrusted in the businesse to provide for them , my name was made use of to the committee for plundred ministers to be put in for the sequestration of dunmow ; and without it , as things stood in that case ( the particular whereof , with that whole businesse from first to last , i shall hereafter relate at large ) it was judged both by godly ministers and the people , ( and therefore i earnestly entreated to give way to it ) there was no other way to effect it ; which title i held for a few weeks , meerly for the good of the people , till an able and fit man could be found out for the place ; in which time that my name was putting in , and was in , though i was put to a great deal of trouble , and some charge in journeys , riding three several times to dunmow , besides other expences for the good of the place , as in disappointing men to come in upon them , and otherwise ( for there were many difficulties in the businesse , as will appear when i shall give a full relation of it , and that occasioned by a sectary or two , par●ly out of ill will to me , and for fear i should have gone thither , and partly out of disappointment of some reward and thanks , which one of the sectaries expected in case one fair for it had come into the place , as may without all breach of charity be conjectured by words heard by two godly persons of dunmow town ) and though ( my name being made use o● ) the profits were absolutely sequestred to me at such a time of the yeer , as that i could have made my self whole , yea , a great gainer , yet i never took penny nor f●●thing of the living , no not so much as one penny to pay the charges i had been put unto , for the necessary preserving of the living to the town , nor never had penny to this day ( which though i conceive i might with a good conscience have taken , there being no reason i should go to war at my own charge ) yet because that i might honour the gospel , and take away all occasion from those who would seek to speak evil of me ; and because if i had taken any thing , it might have been interpreted & reported a great deal more ; besides all might not have known the reason of it , therefore i forbear so much as ever to receive or touch one penny belonging to dunmow ; and truly i believe if the persons be enquired of who chiefly laboured in this businesse , to bring in a godly able man to dunmow , and know all passages ( men who are meer strangers to me save only in this businesse ) will say such was my care , pains , and faithfulnesse for their town ( in the midst of many intervenient difficulties cast in by some instruments , who either had a minde to the place , or hoped for something , ) that dunmow hath great reason to blesse god for me , and that i was to them as one not seeking my own things , but the things of jesus christ , their spiritual good : and now cretensis print when you please your manuscript you have by you , only be sure it be not drawn up by some persons , who by my means were kept out of the livings of dunmow , and of godalming , or by some who would have brought them in ▪ but being disappointed of their ends , were vexed , and imagining i might have converted the means of dunmow to my use , ( because they would have done so , if it had been in their power ) though to be revenged of me by drawing up a story of my jugling , and indirect walking , and putting it into the hand of master goodwin , to make his use of ; but cretensis , let me tell you ( however independents , and sectaries use to jugle and walk indirectly ) i hate jugling , and indirect walking , and am a plain open-hearted man , and i will give you leave to follow me , in all places this . yeers last past where i have lived and preached , from cambridge to walden , and from walden to london , and in london from one place and church to another , and from london to harford , and harford to london , and from london to isleworth , and from isleworth to godalming , &c. and to charge me justly if you can with jugling and indirect walking : i am confident that in all those places i have left a good savor , and none will blame me either for life or doctrine unlesse they be sectaries or cavaliers , yes i know there are some independents who were so convinced of my diligence , painfulness● in my work , unblameable good conversation , that however they love me not for opposing their way , yet upon all occasions will testifie for me against the fury and violence of some : but cretensis let me tell you , i wonder how you dare speake of my juglings and indirect walking , when as the tricks and juglings of your party are so many , and so m●nifest to all the world : i could write a good large book of this subject , the juglings , indirect walking , equivocations of the sectaries , yea of their jugling between two places and things : i could tell cretensis now ( but that i must remember t is not my large reply ) of his juglings and indirect walkings between his fellowship in the colledge and a wife ( both against the statutes , and i think against his oath ) between the two towns of raynum and lyn , between raynum and yarmouth , raynum and norwich , between raynum and london , between his two churches and livings , his parish church , and his new separated church , between his vicaridge of coleman street after voted to be sequestred , and his gathered church ; as also his juglings in his sermons and discourses , saying and unsaying , affirming and denying , but i spare him ; i could tell cretensis of mr. peters juglings and indirect walking for four yeers by gone between old england and new england , having every spring taken his leave in the pulpit of old england , and yet he is not gone ; of his jugling and indirect walking between the west and london , london and other countries to make * burgesses for parliament , i could relate also master wells his halting between giles criplegate and new england , between mr. walker and the money for the poor childrens sending over to new england ; i could tell a story of an independent minister who sought to have , and actually had about fourescore pounds for that which he never preached one sermon for , coming into the sequestration about michaelmas , after all the harvest was in ; as also of another independent minister ( who hath got well with his riding between places ) who had fourty pounds in ready money upon his admittance to be chaplain of a regiment , who after he had received it , never came at them , nor looked after them , not so much as given one sermon , or ever provided any m●n in his place : i could tell of the juglings and shu●flings of the independents about their new model of church-government , their many pretended excuses why they put it not forth , as also of independents juglings and indirect walkings to the rasing of their own foundation , both in the point of the * sacrament and church-government , but i spare them for the present . in one word , the reader may see the clear difference between my juglings and indirect walkings between godalming and dunmow and the independents walking● , they take . pounds nay . li. for preaching never a sermon , taking never a journey , being at no cost , pains nor trouble ; but mr. edwards makes three journies from london to dunmow backward and forwards ( each journey being . miles ) preaches sermons when he comes there , is at a great deal of trouble in london , yea and some charge for the good of dunmow , and when many pounds lies in his power to pay himself well for all this , he takes not one penny nor farthing , and is not mr. edwards then a great jugler and indirect walker ? cretensis , shew me but such an independent jugler and indirect walker guilty of his fault , et eris mihi magnus apollo ; certainly cretensis if your informations of presbyterian mistakes in the night , and your story of a presbyterian angel wherewith you threaten me if i meddle any more with the independents , prove no better then the manuscript by you which came to your hands about a yeer since concerning mr. edwards himself , which discourseth his jugling and indirect walking between godalming and dunmow , instead of hurting the names and reputations of presbyterians , and making them so many dead corpses , they will cause the names and reputations of cretensis and his informers to be like so many stinking carrions , and by this one instance of cretensis manuscript upon which he puts such choyce special marks of truth , as that the writing will be attested by good hands ; and if there be no remedy , will be content to submit it self to the presse : cretensis p , . the reader may judge of all his other informations , and lawfully conclude , if his manuscripts so and so qualified be such as he could hardly have instanced in a businesse more to mr. edwards honour , and yet according to his manuscript is framed for his reproach , what must his loose informations be by word of mouth , especially taken up from anabaptists and loose persons who care not what they say of the orthodox godly ministers , whom they look upon now as the only great block in their way of error , liberty and confusion . cretensis pag. . and . speaks of a long formal story of one nichols living about moor-fields , &c. related by me in gangraena , pag. , . of which story cretensis saith t is long , the particular forgeries in it numerous beyond measure , in which respect he desires the reader to make the computation , which he may do with exactnesse enough in comparing mr edwards relation with some lines given in to him by mr. burroughs in writing anent the businesse , and then cretensis sets down what mr. burroughs gave him in writing , which is to a tittle , as followes . that story mr. edwards hath pag. of one nichols , and of a meeting concluded of , occasioned by some vile opinions vented by that nichols ; where mr. greenhil and my self ( he saith ) was , together with divers passages that he relates came from me at that meeting is all false . i know no such man as this nichols , i never heard there was such a man in the world , till i read it in mr. edwards his book . i ●o this day know of no meeting about him , or any of his opinions either intended , desired , or resolved upon , much lesse that there was any such meeting . the next lords day after mr. edwards his book came forth , mr. greenhil asked me whether i knew of any such meeting with that nichols ; for his part he wondred to see such a thing in mr. edwards his book , for he knew of no such meeting . this passage in cretensis answer of all others ( especially because of mr. burroughs testimony given in writing under his hand , besides mention made of mr. greenhil to in this testimony , that he knew of no such meeting with nichols , but wondred to see such a thing in mr. edwards his book ) took most with many to weaken the truth and credit not only of this story related by me of one nichols , but of many other relations in my book , this being objected to many of my friends ; you see what mr. burroughs hath given under his hand ; and therefore because of the great name of mr. burroughs and mr. greenhil ( which cretensis makes use of here ) to make my story numerous in particular forgeries beyond measure , i shall inlarge upon it , to make good the truth of it , notwithstanding mr. burroughs testimony to the contrary , and cretensis comments and glosses upon mr. burroughs writing , and my story ; and now what if my story of nichols prove true , and and that in all the particular branches in it , where is cretensis then ? in what predicament will cretensis , mr. burroughs , and mr. greenhil be found , and that t is certainly true , and hath been testified again and again , both to me and to many others , both ministers and citizens since my book came forth , i desire the reader to mark what follows . for the first part of the story related by me pag. . concerning one nichols coming into stepny parish , and to mr. greenhils face justifying those wicked opinions there set down , as that god was the author of all sin , &c. ( yea maintaining more then i have particularly mentioned in pag. . namely , that children owe no obedience to their parents except they be godly ) 't is most certainly true , and mr. greenhil dares not deny it ; and for proof of it , mr. * randal an eare and eye witnesse related it to me , and to others , yea since cretensis book came forth that denies the truth of this story ; i have asked mr. randal of it , and he affirms it to be undeniably true ; and for to evince the truth of it , mr. randal told me these circumstances , viz. who were present when nichols did maintain these opinions to mr. greenhil , namely , besides himself one oates a carpenter , and divers women ; as also mr. greenhil could not stay long with this nichols , being to go forth to some place where he had appointed to come , and should be staid for ; so that thus far the story is without all question true , and i am confident mr. greenhil upon new consideration and rubbing up his memory , will speak no more such words to mr. burroughs , as to wonder to see such a thing as this in mr. edwards book , and that he knows of no such meeting . now for the second part of the story , namely that at a meeting where mr. burroughs was present , with divers others , mr. greenhil did relate unto his brother burroughs this sad story of nichols venting these opinions fore-mentioned , and upon that , how all the discourse following related by me in this story of nichols , page . yea more passed between mr. greenhil and mr. burroughs , is as certain as the first ; and for proof of it one mr. allen of stepny parish , a godly understanding man who was upon the place , and heard all , related it to divers in mr. bellamies shop in my hearing , of whom after he had made an end of speaking to the company , i enquired more perfectly how he knew all this to be true , and whether he was an ear witnesse , and got him to name over the opinions again , and to repeat other passages to me for the help of my memory , and for fear lest i should mistake the relation , so soon as mr. allen had done , i went immediatly home , and writ down in my diary the whole businesse from first to last , with the day of the moneth , the place , and persons , when , where , and to whom also besides my self it was told : and further then all this , since my book came forth , and cretensis answer to it , though this story is branded by cretensis to have particular forgeries in it , numerous beyond measure , and all nichols opinions related by mr. greenhil to mr. burroughs , with divers passages mentioned by me to come from mr. burroughs at that meeting , all affirmed to be false , yet mr. allen ( before ever i spoke one word with him coming into mr. bellamies shop accidentally , where when he came in some company were speaking of cretensis answer to my book , and of this very passage of mr. burroughs under his hand brought by cretensis to disprove that story ) of his own accord justified the story of nichols coming to mr. greenhil and mr. greenhils relating it to mr. burroughs , with all the discourse following upon it , saying i am the man that told it mr. edwards , and that in this shop , and mr. greenhil and mr. burroughs dare not deny it ; for the story ( saith mr. allen ) is most certainly true , and all the mistake is of those words a meeting concluded of , where mr. greenhil should relate these opinions , whereas the making known of those opinions and the discourse upon occasion of them was not at a set meeting on purpose appointed for that occasion , but at a usual meeting on the lords day after mr. burroughs his preaching in the morning , where at colonel zacharies house mr. burroughs mr. greenhil and divers godly persons use to meet ; and as mr. allen said this in the presence and hearing of three godly ministers and divers citizens , so hath he ( as i am certainly informed ) drawn up with his own hand for the presse a narration of this story of nichols , maintaining those opinions to mr. greenhil , and of mr. greenhils reporting the opinions to mr. burroughs , with all their discourses thereupon , yea more fully and particularly then i have in gangraena , so that t is strange to me that mr. burroughs should dare to give such a writing under his hand to cretensis , as to say that story mr. edwards hath page . of one nichols &c. is all false , when as the whole story and all the particulars of it are true , and there is nothing false in the story from first to last ; only there is a mistake in the transition from the first part of the story to the second , and in the passing from the first meeting to the second ( which in strict acception of words is no part of the story nor of the matters contained in it ) namely in those words of a meeting concluded of , which implies a set meeting occasioned upon those opinions , whereas the second meeting at which mr. greenhil declared these opinions of nichols , and all those speeches passed between them , was not on purpose about nichols and his opinions , but a meeting where constantly on the sabbath day mornings after sermon , mr. burroughs , mr. greenhil , and divers private christians using to come , mr. greenhil took occasion to speak of this nichols opinions . now i desire the reader to consider mr. allen relating to me the first meeting where mr. greenhil was without mr. burroughs , with the opinions vented then , and telling me there was a second meeting presently after that , where , upon occasion of a former meeting and opinions then maintained , mr. greenhil related the opinions , and all that discourse above mentioned , passed , but not acquainting me with the nature of the second meeting , viz. that it was of course every week after mr. burroughs morning sermon , whether i might not well conclude ( and cannot easily conceive how i could understand it otherwise ) the second meeting to be occasioned by the first , as well as the second relation followed upon occasion of the first ; and though it were not just so , viz. a set meeting to that end , where all i set down in gangraena was spoken , but an ordinary meeting where m. greenhil took the occasion to declare as abovesaid , whether this mistake be a matter to be so much made of as to be branded with forgery , falsenesse , or for me to be cryed out of for telling a story having particular forgeries in it , numerous beyond measure , when as the circumstance wherein the mistake lies , is no repoach , or c●lumny , but in favorem & honorem ; and i appeal to the reader whether if the story had been in that particular circumstance according as i set it down , a meeting concluded of , it had not been more for the honour of mr. greenhil and mr. burroughs to have made a solemn businesse of it by appointing a set meeting to have advised what to have done in this sad case , and such like , then only at an ordinary meeting on another occasion by the by to speak and discourse of it . but before i passe from this , i shall lay down four things . first discover and lay open the equivocations and mental reservations of mr. burroughs and mr. greenhil given in to cretensis in writing . secondly , mr. greenhils and mr. burroughs plain untruths which cannot be salved , no not by equivocations . thirdly inquire into what may be the reasons moving and inducing them thus to do . fourthly , commend something to the readers consideration and observation from all this discourse . . the reader may here observe the fallacies and equivocations of mr. burroughs and mr. greenhil ; mr. burroughs gives a writing under his hand to cretensis concerning the story mr. edwards hath page . of one nichols and a meeting concluded of , &c. saying 't is all false ; now who is there that reads these lines given under mr. burroughs his hand but conceives that master burroughs brands this whose story of nichols of forgery , as if there never had been any such man , nor any such opinions maintained by him , nor mr. greenhil and nichols had never met , nor mr. greenhil had never at any meeting declared to mr. burroughs and others any such opinions , nor never any such discourse in reference to those opinions had passed between mr. burroughs and mr. greenhil , as is set down by me ; this is the english and common construction which all people ( who beleeve mr. burroughs ) make of this writing , crying out , o what a lyer is is mr. edwards , and what a lying book is gangraena ! yea we see cretensis himself , the profound oracle of the sectaries takes mr. burroughs meaning thus , as the reader may perceive by his commentary upon the writing , rendring from thence this story of nichols related by me , so to the world as if it were all forged , and a meer fained thing , going over most of the particulars in this story one after another in his scoffing way , damning each part of it as false , and then passing his sentence upon the whole together in these words : this story is long , and the particular forgeries in it numerous , beyond measure ; and all cretensis grounds upon , is mr. burroughs writing which he received from him ; desiring the reader to make the computation , which he may do with exactnesse enough if he shall please to compare mr. edwards relation with these ensuing lines which he received from mr. burroughs himself in writing , anent this businesse . thus mr. burroughs gives a writing under his hand so couched and drawn up , making use also of mr. greenhils testimony to strengthen it , that all may take it , and many do , as if the story related by me were false ; but doth mr. burroughs think , or believe so of this story as his words carry it ? no , he knows in his conscience the contrary , only he writes thus to cretensis for the present , because it will serve his design , and if his fallacies shall happen to be discovered , he hath so placed his words that he will have a back door to come out at , he hath all along so framed and penned his writing , that though it carry in the face of it another meaning , yet upon two or three words placed artificially he thinks to come off , and salve his credit from being branded a lyer under his own hand , and that is from putting all he sayes upon those words a meeting concluded of ; which words meeting and such are several times used by him , ( each of them six times a peece ) and brought in at every turn and corner to salve him , all the weight of his testimony still referring to the words , meeting , and such , such meeting , such a man , &c. which the reader may easily perceive : so that mr. burroughs equivocation lies thus , he puts all the story upon a meeting concluded of , and speaks of the whole story still as upon such a meeting . now there being no set meeting on purpose for those opinions , but the meeting where these opinions were declared by mr. greenhil an ordinary usual meeting , he thereupon in those lines given to cretensis , doth not only conceal what he knew , but denies the whole story all along , such a man , such opinions ; such passages , related , &c. carrying the matter so as if the whole story had been false , because one circumstance in the manner of the narration of it was mistaken , and this is his evasion framed with much art , and studied on purpose to deceive the reader . the second equivocation and evasion at which mr. burroughs thinks to come out at to salve himself , and yet impeach my story of falshood is this , that he never knew such a man as nichols , nor ever was at any meeting with him , neither did he ever hear of his name , or that there was such a man in the world ; which things have been alledged for him by some of his friends upon my affirming the truth of the story , and that i should prove it ; now granting all this to be true ( though some part of it i much question ) yet my story is not made false by this ; gangraena page . for i do not in my story of nichols , charge mr. burroughs that he ever was at a meeting with nichols , or ever saw his face , only i say mr. greenhil and he met ( which is most true ) and therefore mr. burroughs confounds meetings , jumbles two into one , which i make in my relation distinct , on purpose for an evasion ; neither of the second meeting ( which i speak of ) where mr. burroughs was with mr. greenhil , do i say nichols was there , but rather the contrary , laying down that mr. greenhil related to mr. burroughs and others , what had been vented by nichols a few dayes before ; and now i appeal to the reader whether this be ingenuous fair dealing to deceive the reader thus , by casting the aspersion of falsenesse upon a true story , and yet to keep a reserve to come off with in case of being chalenged ? or rather whether is not this jesuitical equivocation , and whether any jesuite could , or would have drawn up half a score line● fuller of equivocations , reservations , and double expressions then mr. burroughs hath in these few lines : i am of the mind this manuscript of mr. burroughs discovers his jugling and indirect walking between the two meetings , that where master greenhil was without master burroughs , and that where both of them were , that of a meeting concluded of , such a meeting , and an ordinary usual meeting , more then cretensis manuscript will do my jugling and indirect walking between the two towns of godalming in surry and dunmow in essex ; but to make an end of master burroughs equivocations , i wish mr. burroughs to think often of that in iames , cap . . a double minded man is unstable in all his wayes , which hath been often in my mind of him , he of all the apologists in many things seeming to come neer us , even as if he were ours , and then flying off again ; i could mind him of divers passages , both in the assembly and out of the assembly , in his sermons , and conferences , wherein he of all the rest hath most yeelded , inclined to us for a fit , and yet at other times none st●ffer nor fiercer then he . . as in mr. burroughs writing to cretensis , i have shown plain equivocations , so there will be found in it manifest falsity , and some passages that cannot be salved from lying , no not by the help of an equivocation ; as for instance , master burroughs speaks as of the whole together , that story of nichols , not a part of the story , and saith ▪ all is false , which is an apparent untruth , for though some part of it were false , yet if any of it were true ( especially the major part ) it cannot be affirmed all is false , and then though in some parts of it master burroughs may equivocate , yet in others he cannot ; as for instance , the first part of the story wherein is laid down nichols maintaining to mr. greenhils face those wicked opinions , is a part of the story of nichols and undoubtedly true , how then can that be said to be false ? besides it precedes those words expressed in gangraena , a meeting concluded of , upon which mr. burroughs evades , and so cannot be salved by having a reference to them , and yet this is the first and one great part of that story mr. edwards hath of one nichols ; how then can mr. burroughs words , viz. of affirming that story mr. edwards hath of one nichols , to be false , be in any sense justified to be true ? again , how can mr. burroughs say he never heard there was such a man in the world as nichols , when as it cannot be thought but that master greenhill named him to him at colonel zacharies house ? and that master burroughs should never hear of nichols name , mr. greenhil and mr. burroughs being so familiar , and mr. greenhil relating to him the opinions , that mr. burroughs should never aske the mans name who held such vile opinions , nor mr. greenhil never speak of his name , seems to me very strange ; and if so , how came master allen to hear and know that the opinions related to master burroughs , were one nichols opinions , seeing mr. allen was not at the first meeting where nichols was with mr. greenhil , but only at this second meeting where mr. burroughs was ? again how can mr. burroughs give it under his hand , that he to this day never knew of any of nichols his opinions , when as the opinions of nichols laid down by me in the story of nichols , were told him by mr. greenhil , and mr. burroughs thereupon was so affected , that all those speeches fell from him , about the necessi●y of a government , and power in the magistrate , and that over conscience , &c. lastly , for those two or three last lines of mr. burroughs , namely mr. greenhils asking him whether he knew of any such meeting with that nichols ; this being spoken of in reference to the story of nichols set down by me in gangraena , that for his part he wondred to see such a thing in my book , for he knew of no such meeting , how durst mr. greenhil say thus , and mr. burroughs give it under his hand to be printed to abuse the world thus ; for did not mr. greenhil know of a meeting with nichols , which i spoke of in my book in the former part of this story of nichols , where nichols justified to his face these opinions , and which was the ground and occasion of all the discourse related by me in the second meeting ? and yet mr. greenhils question to mr. burroughs , and his own answer to it here set down by cretensis as from under mr. burroughs hand , are so set down that every reader ( who will believe them ) believes and takes it for granted , that mr. greenhil no more then mr. burroughs ever knew such a man as this nichols , nor never heard there was such a man in the world , till he read it in mr. edwrrds his book , nor ever knew of any meeting about him , or any of his opinions ; and so we see cretensis ( though an acute man ) understands it so , and vapors exceedingly upon it . . it may be demanded and asked what should be the cause , and what may be the reasons why mr. burroughs and mr. greenhil should thus conspire together to give such a testimony in writing as this against the story of nichols , which cannot b●t with all ingenuous men prejuduce them much , ( the fallacy of it being once made known ) as being at the best but a grosse equivocation , and a studied peece to deceive the reader , especially considering that nothing i speak of in that story of nichols was to the prejudice and disparagement of mr. greenhil and mr. burroughs , but much to their honour , as being at that time in so good a temper as to be affected with the evil of errors , and wicked opinions . now of this i conceive these three reasons : first , mr. burroughs and mr. greenhils earnest and eager desire of taking all advantages , and opportunities to blemish me , and to render me a lyar to the world , which that they might do , conceiving they had taken me tripping in a mistake ( though no material one , nor nothing to their prejudice , and so no slander nor calumny , but making for their honour ) they prosecute it , and improve it so far , that to make something of it ( poor men ) their ill-will and hatred against me , blinding and befooling them , leads them into equivocations , mental reservations , and untruths , even to the wounding of their own reputations amongst all unprejudiced men . secondly , a design thereby to blast my book among the people , to render it odious , to cause the truth of all matters of fact in it to be suspected , and so to hinder the good intended by me in that book : now mr. burroughs and mr. greenhil having a great name among many people , being accounted for men of that way somewhat moderate and among the best of that party , they knowing that their testimony , and that in the mouth of two witnesses ( both being joyned together in the writing printed by cretensis ) might wound my book , and from thence many would take occasion to question all , therefore they catch at the least occasion to declare themselves against my book . thirdly , they do it to free themselves from suspition and jealousie , which otherwise they might lye under from the other sectaries , as if they were against other sects and opinions , and for a toleration of no other sect but their own , and were for the government of the church to be setled in regard of these horrid opinions and heresies daily vented , and for the coercive power of the magistrate against sectaries , which these conferences upon occasion of nichols opinions seem to import , and might give some jealousie of , and therefore to clear themselves from these , and to ingratiate themselves to the sectaries , and the sectaries to them , to assure them they will stand by them against the presbyterians ; they greedily catch at the mistake of a circumstance , and thereupon mr. burroughs gives a writing under his hand , so couched and curiously drawn up ▪ as that all their fellow sectaries cannot but take it as if they denyed the whole , and as if no such words had ever been spoken by them about opinions , and the necessity of government and power of the magistrate . the independents strictly so called , are a very few in comparison of the anabaptists , antinomians , libertines , &c. a contemptible party as of themselves , independents in armies , country , city , falling daily to anabaptisme , &c. and therfore mr. greenhil and mr. burroughs being afraid they might suffer by this story , take this occasion to clear themselves by sending this writing to cretensis . . the reader from this writing given under mr. burroughs hand to disprove one of my stories , together with cretensis glorious vaporing inferences upon it , may plainly see what to judge of my stories laid down in gangraena , and of cretensis confutation , seeing cretensis signal choisest proof , and that which among all the rest was the onely testimony that gave him some credit in the world , proves so weak and faulty , yea and at best but a meer juggle and equivocation : what may the reader think of cretensis answers to other passages of my book ? his testimonies being either from persons of no credit and worth , apprentice boyes , sectaries , and men in their own cause , or persons under bad report , as cosens , against whom there have been many other complaints and depositions for miscariages and misdemeanors ( as i am certainly informed ) yea among others for abusing a worthy member of the house of commons , when as mr. burroughs testimony proves so invalid , and the whole story of nichols ( excepting onely one mistake in the transition of it from one part to the other ) proves all true , yea and more too then i have set down , as appears both by what i have sa●d already , and from mr. allens printed relation , being a man from whom i had the first relation of this story : now by this time i conceive that all men know what to judge of mr. burroughs text , and cretensis his commentary and application , and must conclude cretensis had little reason to make such tragical out-cryes , and a great noyse of branding this story of nichols ( as if there had never been any such man in the world , nor no such opinion , held by any , nor never no such discourse between mr. burroughs and mr. greenhil ) with particular forgeries in it , numerous beyond measure . and for a conclusion of my reply both to cretensis and master burroughs writing ▪ i report thus upon cretensis in his own words a little changed : that long formal story of one nichols living about moor-fields , coming into stepney parish to draw away people : that to mr. greenhils face did justifie and maintain many wicked opinions , &c. upon occasion whereof at a meeting where mr. greenhil , mr. burroughs and many others were , which meeting was , viz. a little before mr. burroughs fell upon the preaching of the power of the magistrate in matters of religion , and the point of toleration : at which meeting mr. burroughs and mr. greenhil , with others , spake many good words , particularly mr. burroughs , in regard of these things , matters being so , there was a necessity of the government of the church , and of the power of the magistrate , &c. this story is so long , and the particulars in it true beyond question : in which respect , i desire the reader presently to make the computation , which he may do with exactnesse enough , if he shall please to compare mr. edwards his relation in gangraena , this reply , and mr. allens relation anent this businesse , with the lines received by cretensis from master burroughs himself in writing , and cretensis commentary upon them . cretensis pag. . sect. . having had occasion to mention mr. burroughs immediatly before , fals upon a discourse to vindicate mr. burroughs of an error charged upon him by me in the catalogue of errors , and labours to clear him by comparing it with other passages in his book , page . and by shewing mr. burroughs his rule touching forbearance was of matters of religion , not of matters of state , and then concludes his confutation with a jeer and scoff of what i said against mr. burroughs position , namely it was but a forlorn hope , the fore-runner of a great army of confutations advancing , and of resembling mr. burroughs to achilles , and applying that verse to me in answering mr. burroughs , infoelix puer , atque impar congressus achilli . reply . i have much exceeded the nature of a brief reply to cretensis , having already gone far beyond the number of sheets i intended in this reply to cretensis , and therefore that i may reserve matter for my large reply , i shall not enlarge my self upon this , nor the following particulars in cretensis book as i have done upon some others , but shall passe by what i could say to cretensis evasions of passages in other pages clearing his meaning , &c. brought in defence of mr. burroughs , as namely , that mr. burroughs uses to say and unsay , affirm and deny , as the vanity and weaknesse of that distinction ( as 't is here applyed ) concerning matters of religion , and matters of state , as if an erroneous conscience did not make things the magistrates account , but matters of state , matters of religion , and the magistrates also reckon many things to be matters of state , which many consciences account high matters in religion ; all i shall say ( and justly ) of of many things delivered by master burroughs about toleration and the magistrate , is , what galen said wickedly of moses writings , multa dicit sed nihil probat ; and therefore there will need no great abilities to confute achilles , troilus may try his valour with him , by putting him but to prove his own positions and assertions ; only before i end my reply to this section , i must tell cretensis he forgot when he writ thus , troilus will needs be trying his valour with achilles whatsoever it costs him , that master edwards had already tryed the strength of achilles and four more joyned to him , master thomas goodwin , master nye , &c. in his antapologie , or full answer to the apologetical narration , which was never yet replyed to unto this day ; and therefore certainly if the unhappy boy were able ( as many learned men are pleased to think ) to make his part good with four besides achilles , he may venture to try a fall with achilles alone ; and therefore if cretensis will once more get a writing under mr. burroughs hand to this purpose , and print it , that achilles will in writing openly maintain his and cretensis church way not to be a schism , and that it ought to be tolerated by the supreme magistracy of this kingdom , i do proffer to answer him , and to maintain the contrary , and then leave it to learned men to judge which of us hath the fall : only i premise this condition , that both of us may , as in the presence of god , make a solemn promise to call in no second , nor to have any help from others , or to communicate our writings to any man , that so what we do may be a trial of our valours , and not of other mens : and for a conclusion of my reply to this section , had not cretensis come in at the close of this section with his troilus and achilles , his forlorn-hope , and his great army of confutations , but staid his pen & closed the period at an erroneous conscience may be such ; he had wrought little less then a miracle , for he had written one whole section among . without either giving me the lye , or jeering or scoffing at me , or abusing some place of scripture , &c. but the evil spirit that attends his pen envied him the crown of that glory , to write one sober section , and therefore for uniformity sake he makes this like unto its fellows , ending with jeers and scoffs . cretensis sect. . pag. . saith , how my pen hath abused mr. ellis of colchester , and other faithful servants of god in those parts with base calumnies and slanders , the world will shortly understand by an expresse from thence , of which mr. ellis writes thus to a friend in london : the aspersions cast on me and some others here by mr. edwards , are as false as foul : which because they are a great part of his book and strength , those who are here concerned , will , if god please , make reply . reply . now whether my pen hath abused m. ellis of colchester , & other faithful servants of god in those parts with base calumnies and slanders , i desire the reader to turn back to mr. harmars letter , p. , . and to read what he hath sent me under his hand ; besides , cretensis the great critick upon other mens words , in these words his pen ( speaking of me ) writes either falsly or improperly ; for what i print of mr. ellis , &c. in gangraena , are letters written by another pen , not mine , and therefore if i wanted matter , or had nothing else to do with my time , i could spend as many words ( upon a better ground ) and expatiate upon calling mr. harmars pen my pen , as cretensis doth upon the word meeting , p. , . as for the expresse from colchester discovering the base calumnies and slanders against the saints there , i hear nothing of it yet , but let it come when it will , i fear it not ; for both i and others know so much of the sectaries of colchester , of their basenesse , self-seeking , equivocations , &c. that the answer to it will serve to make a third part of gangraena ; their errors , heresies , practises , &c. without any help from other places , will serve to fill a good book of it self . but to animadvert no further on this passage of cretensis , i put a period to this section with this short animadversion , that the things i relate of mr. ellis or some others of colchester in gangraena , are not false ( though mr. ellis saith they be foul ) neither are they a great part of my book and strength , but a very small little part , not the twentieth part of my book ; but i am of the minde , when mr. ellis and those who are there concerned shall make a reply , the rejoynde● to it will have a great deal more , and other manner of things of the sectaries of colchester then gangraena hath , and i must deal ingenuously with cretensis and mr. ellis , i have been told by one of colchester , that if he had thought or known i would have printed any letters concerning the sectaries of colchester , he would have furnished me with other manner of things then any contained in those letters mr. ellis writes of to a friend in london . cretensis § . . p. . labors to disprove the testimony given by me of the author of the third letter printed in gangraena , by printing a letter written to kiffin concerning him , wherein the author of that letter denies mr. ricraft to be a person religious , and cordially affected to the parliament , intimating and casting many foul aspersions upon him . reply . i leave mr. ricraft to justifie the contents of his own letter written to me , and to answer this letter written against him , which he assures me he hath done , and that by this time 't is printed , wherefore i need say little ; only for what i expressed of mr. ricraft , i had good reason to do it , both from the testimonies i had received of him upon enquiry from persons judicious and godly , and from some converse and acquaintance which of late i have had with him ; and that which made me give him that testimony , a person cordially affected to the parliament , was his being imployed in several matters and affairs that concerned the parliament ; which besides that i had heard so , i saw two orders or warrants , one from the honorable committee of both kingdoms , the other from the committee of examinations , testifying his good service , and commending him , which are more to me to assure me that he is a man well affected to the parliament , then a hundred letters written to the contrary by * anabaptists ( such as cretensis here prints ) can be to deny it : now as to that particular instance in the letter brought to disprove mr. ricraft for being a person cordially affected to the parliament ( which indeed is all that hath any show of proof , all the rest being meer words ) namely , of concealing a colonel which came out of the kings army , which colonel would have taken away the life of one mr. roberts minister , and that if mr. roberts had known of the colonels being in town , he would have endeavored the hanging of him , and yet not without cause , for former discourtesies received from him , &c. i desire the reader to judge how true 't is by these following lines which i received from mr. roberts , under his own hand , and subscribed with his name . i do not know of any colonel or other officer of the kings party that mr. iosiah ricraft did entertain , nor that the said pretended colonel , nor any other particular person did particularly endeavor to take away my life : and if i had punctually known that the said pretended colonel , or any other person had endeavored at the taking of b●rmingham in hoe blood to have destroyed my life , yet i do not conceive that a sufficient cause for me in cold blood , if i had opportunity , to have sought the taking away of his life , march . . fran. roberts . § . . cretensis thinking that by his anabaptistical letter he hath weakned my testimony of the author , and branded him for a malignant , he proceeds in this section against the master of the letter , charging a great part of it to be notoriously false , as some things about kiffin and palmer , and of a woman to be rebaptized , at which story , out of his love to anabaptists and dipping , not knowing how soon he shall fall to that way , he is so offended , that he makes the tale of gargantua and donquixot , with his wind-mills , to look like gospels in comparison of it , and thereupon breaks out into a passion , that he saith , it is pity the relator should either eat or drink , till he either hath proved the truth , or else confessed the untruth of it . reply . the reader may observe cretensis cannot deny some part of it to be true ; and indeed the first part of it of one web ( the most material and foul for the opinions and blasphemies ; cretensis doth not so much as offer to disprove : ) for those other about kiffins bragging upon disputation , and those lighter passages , i conceive mr. ricraft will clear in his answer ; but for the main businesse of kiffin and patience anointing with oyl a sick woman , one of their members , that is not denied neither , only some words , which being recovered , she should speak , which is not much material to the thing ; besides , 't is probable words to that effect were spoken , though not in terminis , wherein , may be , the equivocation stands : and lastly , for that story of the woman to be rebaptized , and the dipper which cretensis makes such a quaint invention and bold fiction , &c. as if no anabaptist could be guilty of such one ; i reply to cretensis , there are fouler things done by anabaptists and sectaries ; mistris attaways story , with many particular passages in it are fouler , as i shall by letters , and other relations make manifest ; but whereas cretensis makes this relation such a lye to the wherstone , making all the daring relations ( as cretensis phrases them ) in gangraena besides to give place to it , i will upon one condition ( and that a very reasonable one ) that cretensis and his church will promise upon proof of it to joyn in a petition to the parliament with the presbyterians for the forbidding of all dipping and rebaptization , and exemplary punishment of all dippers , as his brother kiffin , &c. set down in my large reply to cretensis , the place where , the name of the dipper , with other circumstances of this story ; and i do believe , if my intelligence doth not extremely sail me , whereas cretensis makes such a wonder at one , i shall be able in my next to give instances in the plural number ; and for this end i have taken order to have sent me up with hands subscribed , the proof with particular circumstances . and for conclusion of this , i cannot but take notice of the extreme cruelty of cretensis against the relator of this story ( and by this we may see what liberty and favor presbyterians must expect , if once we fall into the hands of independents ) that 't is pity he should either eat or drink , till he hath proved the truth , or confessed the untruth of it . what cretensis , no other way for a poor man who tells a story of an anabaptistical dipper , but to starve him to death , or to make him sin against conscience by confessing the untruth of that which he thinks in his conscience to be true ; and that i may convince cretensis of his rashnesse in speaking thus , i desire him in his rejoynder to resolve this case , which is the true case of this story : suppose the person who can prove it lives sixty or seventy miles off , how long , and how many days will you allow the relator to finde him out , and to bring him , with all other witnesses before the magistrate to prove the truth of it ; must not this of necessity require some days ( though no accidents should fall out , sicknesse , or of being from home , &c. which might retard it ) and would you have the relator all this while go so many days without eating or drinking ? that were indeed the ready way for the relator never to prove the truth of it : i suppose upon second thoughts cretensis will con●esse he writ this in a passion and flame , as i believe he did all the rest of his book . cretensis § . ▪ p. . denies and puts off several particulars laid down in gangraena , as about lieut : colonel lilburn , as about one thomas moor of lincolnshire , as about a woman-preacher at brasteed in kent ; and he adorns his pretended answers with jeers and scoffs , as that lilburn can see and read twenty and ten untruths in my book , with the worst of his eyes , and that i am the greatest manifestarian under heaven , there being no man hath manifested that weaknesse of judgement , that strength of malice against the saints as i have done . reply . lieutenant colonel lilburns playing at cards , i have proved true in answer to walwyn , pag. . where the reader may by looking back be satisfied ; as for the rest i have said of him , when cretensis goes about to disprove it , i shall as particularly make proof of it by instances ; and i am of an opinion with cretensis ( though not in his sense ) the other things instanced in as well as playing at cards , are grapes growing on the same thorn ; only i cannot but wonder at one fetch of cretensis ( indeed far fetcht ) to salve the credit of his brother lilburn , that my reporting of lilburns playing at cards either is a false report it self , or at least a report of a report which is false , and so little better , which is to make all reports false of which a man is not an ear and eye-witnesse , and so nothing to be believed , though related by never such credible ear and eye-witnesses : now after this rate to be sure the story of cretensis presbyterian angel which another hath to tell ( some independent angel ) is false , the story of the presbyterians fishing on a day of thanksgiving is false , and little to be regarded ; for cretensis sure was none of the com — or sub-presbyters ( though i am confident he would have fished with them a whole afternoon upon a thanksgiving day , on condition to have been a com — or sub-presbyter with the doctorate of the assembly ) the manuscript of my jugling between godalming and dunmow , is either a false report it sell , or at least a report of a report which is false , and so all the stories which cretensis threatens presbyterians with to make their names and reputations so many dead corpses , will be but either false reports , or at least reports of reports which are false , and so little better , for i believe cretensis comes little among presbyterians , and so cannot speak much of his own knowledge . as for that particular of one of lilburns eyes put out by a pike in the street , upon which cretensis makes jests , as that lilburn is able to see and read twenty untruths and ten in mr. edwards book with the worst of them . i answer , this passage , as also that of two children taken away at a time from cretensis are not made any thing of by me , or insisted upon to upbraid them , but touched only to shew their own folly in rash censuring of presbyterians from acts of gods providence in afflicting , by giving instances in themselves : however , for the truth of the thing , lilburns eye was so run into by a pike immediately upon his letter coming forth against mr. prynne and the assembly , as that he could not see with it for a great while , and it was feared , and commonly reported , he would never see more with it ; but for my part , i am glad to hear he can see again with it ; and the recovery of his sight doth no whit infringe the truth of what i have written , i expressing not how long he could not see , speaking only of presently after his letter came forth ; but supposing his eye-sight to be as good as cretensis expresses it , yet i am sure he cannot read twenty and ten untruths in gangraena , and i suppose by this time the reader by my reply is well satisfied , that this speech of cretensis is an untruth ; and as for that jeer of cretensis , that if i had not a great beam in my own eye , i might easily have seen that neither of lilburns eyes are put out : i reply , that lately in westminster hall i walked by leiut : col : lilburn , and eyed him well , and could easily see a great blemish in one of his eyes which was not in the other , and so visible , that many a one in whose eye lesse is seen , yet cannot see at all ; and i am of the minde , if cretensis do but put on his spectacles , he may see a great blemish in the eye , upon occasion of the pike running in ; but for my part , the greatest hurt i wish to lieut : col : lilburn is , that he may not lose the eye of his soul in the wayes of error , schism , contempt of the ministery , dispising of dominion , and speaking evil of dignities , yes , my earnest prayer to god for him , cretensis and other of their brethren is , that god would anoint their eyes with eye-salve that they might see and be ashamed , and return . lastly , for thomas moor a great sectary , and manifestarian that hath done much hurt in lincolnshire , which cretensis denies , by saying he doth not more believe there is any such man , then he does that there is any woman-preacher at brasteed in kent , &c. and he believes me to be the greatest manifestarian under heaven , there being no man that hath manifested that weaknesse of judgement , that strength of malice against the saints that i have done . i reply , first the reader may do well to take special notice of the bold impudency of cretensis , who dares deny any thing if it may make for the sectaries ; and 't is no wonder he denies many other things in gangraena , calling them lies , forgeries , when as he will dare to write thus , and to deny that which is known to many hundreds , and to persons of all ranks , ministers , gentlemen , citizens , souldiers . this thomas moor does much hurt in lincolnshire , some parts of norfolk , cambridgeshire ; he is famous at boston , lynne , holland ; followed and accompanied somtimes from place to place , with many attending him ; and i cannot think but cretensis hath heard of him , and that he hath some equivocation in his words or evasions , as it may be upon the word sectary , cretensis not judging any of his saints sectaries ; or upon great sectary , as those words seem to imply , a sectary of that magnitude which he imports ; or else upon those words , that hath done much mischief , cretensis not believing that any of his saints can do much mischief ; and truly cretensis may with as much truth deny there is any such man as master hugh peters , as deny what i have written of thomas moor ; and that there is such a one , i have seen , and have by me at this time writings of his to the quantity of almost twenty sheets , for his opinions , written by thomas moor himself , subscribed with his name , to a worthy and learned member of the assembly : as also this thomas moor , since these wars , was questioned and committed by the then governor of boston colonel king , for keeping an unlawful conventicle at an unseasonable time in the night in the garrison town of boston , and for abusing and mis-calling the governor when he was brought before him about it . secondly , as for that jeer , there is no more any such man then such a woman at brasteed in kent , let cretensis know for all master saltmashes bold affirmation in his late book , that the contrary is known to himself and all the town , there is such a woman who preaches often both at brasteed and other towns thereabouts ; and besides what the reader in justification of this may finde in this book , p. , . i shall adde this as a farther proof related to me lately by two godly ministers of kent , which is as follows . upon mr. saltmarshes book call'd groans for liberty , coming forth , and denying there was any such woman , who preached at brasteed , many of the godly ministers of kent in that part of kent about town mauling at a meeting of theirs , took it in consideration to enquire and finde out the truth of that related in gangraena , but denied by mr. saltmarsh , and entreated particularly a minister on mr. t. born in those parts neer brasteed , knowing the town , and the people thereabouts , to make it his businesse so to search into it , as that the certain knowledge of it might be reported to them at their next meeting , that accordingly it might be communicated to me for the further clearing of the truth . mr. t. willingly accepted of the motion of his brethren , and accordingly did act in the businesse , and at the next meeting satisfied the rest of the ministers , that he had found out there was such a preaching woman an anabaptist , who somtimes at brasteed , and other times at westrum , a town neer brasteed , doth meet other women , and after she hath preached , she takes the bible and chuses a text , some verses in a chapter , or somtimes a whole chapter , and expounds and applies to her auditors ; and mr. t. the minister , who returned this relation to the minister , knows this woman , and knows this to be so . one of those two ministers who acquainted me with this , being entreated to give it me under his hand , hath under his hand given it me , which i keep by me to produce upon any occasion ; so that the reader may see both the one and the other , thomas moor the sectary , and a woman preacher at brasteed , and both true , notwithstanding cretensis will not believe them , but makes a jeer and scoff at these as he doth at all other things . thirdly , to that bitter , uncharitable , unchristian expression of cretensis concerning me , that i am the greatest manifestarian under heaven ; there is no man hath manifested that weaknesse of judgement , that strength of malice against the saints which he hath done . i would have cretensis know , if i would give leave to my pen , i could upon these words whip him so as to fetch blood in abundance from him , but i will not write a satyr , all i will say ( though this is a desperate provoking speech , and i have much ado to forbear ) is this , i dare appeal to the indifferent reader , whether mr. edwards or mr. goodwin in their writings against independents , and against presbyterians , have manifested more weaknesse of judgement , and strength of malice against the saints : and to satisfie the reader and my self , i desire cretensis in his rejoynder to shew where in any of my books i have manifested that weaknesse of judgement , to declare to all the world as cretensis hath done ) that ( i put out an answer to a book of which i never read one quarter of it ; or writ a book , wherein the far greatest part of the particulars were observed by ot●ers ; or had neither leasure nor opportunity to search to the bottom all was storied , and yet notwithstanding deny all with gyant-like confidence , cr. p. . or where , in what pages of my books , in●ituled , reasons against independent government , antapologia , gangraena , i have discovered that strength of malice against the independent saints , as cretensis in his books call'd m. s. theo-machia , answers and replyes to mr. prynne , a brief answer to mr. edwards , hath against the presbyterian saints , and all the reformed churches . but no man need marvel at cretensis course language , either in vilifying , slighting me , or in charging me so deeply , who considers how he hath spared none , of what condition or quality soever , that have come in his way , not regarding any mans age , calling , learning , holinesse , sufferings , place ; witnesse his scornful bitter speeches against mr. walker , mr. roborough , dr. steuart ; yea , casting fire-brands of reproach upon city , assembly , parliament , and all presbyterians , and particularly upon that worthy , learned , and religious gentleman mr. prynne , the greatest and truest sufferer against those evils of that time , both for matter and manner , of any one man in england , whom above all others ( notwithstanding all his sufferings , and other personal worth ) he hath slighted , and desperately censured , as here he does me ; which the reader may finde in cretensis books against mr. prynne , and particularly in that book intituled , * calumny araigned and cast . cretensis ( § . . . ) denies he holds any errors in justification greater then i do , yea , or any so great by many degrees ; and it will be a thousand times said , before once proved , that cretensis holds any such errors , &c. he charges me also , in my epistle dedicatory , to abuse the parliament with a loud untruth , that there are eleven meetings at least of sectaries in one parish in this city : which loud untruth he charges not upon me alone , but upon the honorable court of common-councel , the lord mayor , aldermen , &c. calling them brethren in iniquity with me . and further taxes me , that because the pages of my book are not large enough to contain my shamelesse untruths , therefore i quote them in the margin of it , as of overton and eaton , and some of cretensis church reporting , &c. reply . cretensis hath been often charged to hold errours in the point of justification and the particulars have been specified and proved by many godly learned ministers , both in pulpits , writings , and conferences , as * master walker , master roborough , master calamie , &c. yea , some independent ministers , as mr. thomas goodwin , master burton , &c. have spoken against his errours in the point of justification , using sharp and quick expressions upon discoursing of them ( as i can prove by good witnesses . ) but for me , i was never taxed by any man , either presbyterian or independent , for holding any errours in the doctrine of justification : and indeed , i hold nothing in that point but which is commonly laid down in the confession and articles of religion made by the reformed churches . and for the proving you guilty of errour , master robrough hath done it cleerly and fully in his animadversions and examination of both parts of your treatise of justification ( which , me thinks , you never having replyed unto , should not have had the forehead to have boasted thus . ) besides also , a godly orthodox learned presbyt . of the church of scot● and hath fully answered you , and discovered your weaknesse , as one of the reverend commissioners of the church of scotland assured me upon his own knowledge . secondly , cretensis shewes his impudencie and boldnesse in denying that which i prove by a petition of the honourable court of common councell , wherein they in terminis ( as cretensis cannot deny ) affirm it ; and i suppose , all men will iudge , such an honourable court affirming it , and that to the high court of parliament , is to be beleeved before one cretensis . and of this businesse i know something , for i particularly inquired of some of that committee appointed to draw up the petition , and to make proof of things , how this particular was proved ; and they told me , it was made apparent to the committee of common councell , whereupon they put it in : and no wise man can conceive , that such a representative body as the common councell , in a businesse wherein they knew they had so many eyes upon them , and so many enemies , ( all the sectaries mortally hating them for this , and other petitions ) would represent such a thing to the parliament , unlesse they could prove it . the common councell knowes very well , the sectaries want not friends to possesse the parliament against them , and who watch but for such an advantage , as to take them tripping , thereby to render all they present in this kinde as false : and if cretensis , or any of his fellow sectaries could have disproved this , 't is a wonder to me they did not : when a committee was appointed to hear , and the citie to make proof of some of the foulest things mentioned in the petition , why did not cretensis , or some of his church then , for the weakning the credit of the common councell , and the better bringing their preaching-sisters off , come in , and alledg this as a loud untruth ? objecting , that by the same reason the story of the preaching women might be false . but how true soever 't is , cretensis hath a good faculty , in all things that are brought against the sectaries , to beleeve nothing ; but to be as confident as twice two makes four , that all is false . well , though i will not be so uncharitable as cretensis was , to wish master goodwin might neither eate nor drink till he had proved what he here writes : yet i heartily wish , that my lord major and the honourable court would not suffer cretensis and his church to meet any more in their conventicle , till he had made good what he here writes ; which , i conceive , they may the more lawfully and justly doe , because he doth not only give them the — , but calls them brethren in iniquity with me , , scoffing at a saying of mine taken out of the city petition , but this saying of his need not be melancholy for want of company ; it hath brethren enough in the iniquity of it : and who are these brethren , but the lord major , aldermen , and common councell ? o what an insolent bold passage is this ! the reader need not wonder at his foul mouth , and railing dialect against me and my book , who cares no more for this honourable citie : i doe not see how the honourable court of common councell can let it passe without questioning him , to suffer a man , who lives in the citie under their government , to abuse them thus in print . i am confident , if the presbyterians lived in a citie under a magistracie and government , where the governers were independent , and should have abused them thus , they would have made the citie to hot for them . . as for that i say of overton and eaton , for all cretensis mincing and shuffling , i shall free my self from uttering untruth ; for overton said , after a boasting manner , unto two sufficient witnesses , that now there was an answer to my antapologie , and entred into the hall-book ; and they apprehend him so , especially one of them , as that he took order to send me word ( i being then in the country ) that an answer was certainly printing ; and for my greater assurance , he had searcht the book , and found it entred : so that i and many lookt every day for the coming of it forth ; and i never knew before now , that books were entred into the hall-book , but just when they were going to the presse . for eaton , an independent milliner , i do not affirm , that he spake the same words which overton did , for his words were spoken many months before overtons ; only he is quoted in the m●rgin as an instance to make good those words in the second page of my preface , their great words and threats of an answer ; which were these that he gave out , there was an answer to my antapologie , and he had seen it , and the author of it had discovered me to be a poor weak man , and my book a slight easie piece , neither good sense , nor good english , or words to that effect ; which eaton confessed he spake before witnesses , since my gangraena came forth : that 's all i say of him , or meant , and , i suppose , these are great words and threats of an answer . only by the way , i desire cretensis to resolve me these questions , and then i will give him a good account why i called eaton an independent : namely , what was the true reason that cretensis reply to my antapologie , being entred in the hall-book in iuly last , and given to the bookseller to print , was not printed , but stopped ? and how it came to passe , that eaton , if he be no independent , had the reply to my antapologie communicated to him to read and peruse ? and when cretensis hath resolved these questions , it may be , by the next , if he answer not truly , i shall tell him the reasons of the stop , and to whom else besides eaton this reply hath been communicated , as to master sympson , and , may be , tell him what master overton , or his man , or both , have told a friend of mine , about the answer to my antapologie ; as namely , what the licenser did upon perusing of it , and of the title given to it about the accuser of the brethren cast , &c. . as for the report of some of master iohn goodwins church , &c. i observe cretensis denyes it not , but puts it off with one of his usuall tricks , that he beleeves , i no more know it then declare it . and indeed , this is one of cretensis jugling wayes which he makes often use of in this book ; when he knowes not what well to say , then he comes in with i beleeve , he no more knoweth , and i no more beleeve . ( cretens pag. , . ) and truly , 't is somewhat strange to me , that he who is so hard of beliefe in divine things , that he will not beleeve the scriptures without reason , and hath preached lately with much earnestnesse and violence , that faith is not to guide reason , but reason faith , will yet in humane things , beleeve any thing against all sense and reason . but to put cretensis out of doubt , that i know , and can prove what i say , i offer cretensis , upon promise made from him and his church , that the honest men who told it out of their zeal to the cause , and their rejoycing in an answer coming , and to perswade the presbyterians to the truth of it ( who have alwayes much doubted of an answer to the antapologie ) shall not be censured by the church , nor looked upon with an evill eye , nor hundred by this from being taken into the preferment of being a prophet , and preaching for cretensis , i will name the minister to whom it was told , and the members by whom ; and for encouragement to cretensis and his church to make this promise , i will for present name the first letter of the godly ministers name , well acquainted with some of the church , namely master b. cretensis , sect. . page , , , . spends many leaves in labouring to disprove the information given me of one cosens of rochester , and related by me , affirming that relation to be forgery of forgeries , and all is forgery , all over it , and that in it there are well nigh quot verba , tot mendacia ; and hee goes over seven particulars , putting the lye upon each of them , concluding , there is scarce a clause of a sentence true in this relation . and as all along upon each particular , so both in the entrance to this answer , and in the close of it , he is full of jears , scoffs , and foul uncivill language . reply . this story being the last of those related by me in gangraena , which cretensis excepts against in his answer , and the story next unto that of nichols and master burroughs , ( if not more in some respects ) which he most insults upon , and triumphs in , i have therefore reserved it to the later end , as being the last particular matter of fact i shall reply unto for the justification and vindication of my selfe against the foul-mouthd aspersions of cretensis : and i shall first speak to the manner of his answer and confutation of this story , and secondly to the matter of it : but before i speak to either of these , i shall minde the reader of that which i have often spoken of upon severall other particulars which i have replyed unto ; namely , that hee must not look for all now that may be said , lest i anticipate my larger reply ; as also , because there is a gentleman out of town , whom i have expected almost this three weeks to come to london , who can tell mee some circumstances in this story for proofe of some things more fully and cleerly then the minister from whom immediately i received it : and indeed , i am told , there is a mystery in some passages of this businesse about cosens , which being unfolded , will give more full satisfaction in some particulars to the reader , then yet i am able to doe . for the manner of cretensis answer , how unlike it is to a minister of the gospel , and how like to one brought up in an alehouse , or in a bowling-alley , not onely on a day of publick thanksgiving , but every day in the week , having their terms of art at his fingers ends , score up , tallie on , and such foul-mouthd language , 't is a lie , you lie , a loud lie , every impartiall reader cannot but take notice , and many speak openly of it ; and that which makes cretensis folly and insolencie the greater , and more to be blamed by every indifferent reader , is this , that he gives me the lie so often , in such a disgracefull , scornfull way , making the relation all over forgery , and that there are so many lies well nigh as words in the story ; speaking also most confidently , though falsly , against the worthy minister who told me this storie , that hee works stoutly at the forge , and feeds both himself and the world with all manner of scandals and falshoods against the independents without fear , and in the close vapouring and triumphing at an excessive rate with inferences drawn from his own confutations , as if all hee had said in answer to me had been gospel ; when as all this high and great building is laid and raised solely upon the weak sandy foundation of cosens his own relation ; cretensis disproving the truth of my relation , and sealing the truth of his own answer in seven particulars by no other way , but the man professeth ( that is cosens ) that hee knowes no such man , and this counter information i had from the mouth of the said cosens himselfe , and have the particulars under his hand . now i appeal to all the world whether any wise man would ever have made such adoe as cretensis doth here , giving the lye so oft , triumphing so confidently in a businesse meerly upon the information of a man in his own case , and whether this be not worse then to ask my fellow whether i be a thief ; ( cret . p. . ) namely , to ask a mans selfe , and upon a mans owne testimony to call an honest man a thief , and to declare a thiefe an honest man ; especially considering , besides cosens being a party , and in his owne cause , hee is a man against whom there are many depositions , and complaints against him for other miscarriages and misdemeanours , a copie whereof i am promised from a good hand , and shall insert in my large reply : but supposing all that cretensis saith cosens told him should prove upon further inquiry to be true , and not false ; ( the contrary whereunto i shall presently make apparent ) yet no wise man can excuse cretensis of a great deal of weaknesse and folly , to put so much weight as hee doth upon such a testimony , and to declare so much to all the world : certainly great cretensis is the greatest manifestarian that i have ever met with , and there is no man hath manifested that weaknesse of judgement , besides strength of malice against the presbyterian ministers and saints which hee hath done both in this , and in many other passages of his book ; as to make an answer to a book , and professe truely he never read one quarter of the book , &c. and in my opinion these acts manifest greater weaknesse of judgement , farre more injudiciousnesse , then the not knowing how to range parts of speech in a sentence , nor to put the nominative case and verb together regularly in english , &c. and for a conclusion of what i have to reply against the manner of cretensis confutation of this story , i referre it to the judicious readers consideration whether master edwards , for relating a story as a relation , upon the information of a reverend godly minister well known , living also upon the place , who could upon no reason be judged to do it out of partiality , or for sinister ends , be to be accounted a liar , and to have the lye often given him , or m. goodwin for denying the whole story , and affirming the contrary upon the bare word and relation of a stranger , a great sectary , and a party in the cause , who according to all reason cannot be thought but he will speak favourably for himself , especially being such a one , as a man may , without breach of charity , presume he will speak any thing for himselfe in his own cause , when as hee did to mee in the presence and hearing of three godly citizens alledge in his owne behalfe to cleer himself from all fault in this matter , that one of the witnesses who deposed , said , he was hired to swear against him , and had five shillings given him by one of the justices , or some about him , and had three or foure cups of sack given him before he swore , and was drunk when he took his oath ; unto whom some of the * citizens then present with me , replied , he had best take heed what he said to accuse the justices of peace , that they should make any witnesse drunck , or have any hand to give . s. to one to sweare against him , and that this was no● likely , nor to be beleeved by any wise man ; and i suppose if i should reply never a word more to what cretensis hath objected against this story of cosens , i had said enough to satisfie rationall men , by declaring i had my information from a person of worth , and by cretensis nothing is here brought to infringe it , but only the parties own testimony , who is a man also otherwayes obnoxious , as i have already declared . now from the manner i shall come to the matter ; and for the relation which i have set down of cosens in the last leaf of my book save one , i received it from a reverend minister who is preacher at rochester ( the place where cosens lives ) and a member of the assembly , who told it me , and a common counsell man of this city , and i writ it from this ministers mouth that i might neither forget nor mistake it , and read it to him after i had done , and upon reading , he approved it as his sense , and that which he had related . but now supposing there should be any mistakes in the first relation made to this godly and learned minister , yet i reporting it just as i had it from his mouth ( he being a man to be beleeved ) and as an information only , not as a thing of my own knowledge , i conceive i cannot be taxed for a lyar , not according to any acception or definition of a lye ; and if i be in this kinde to be blamed for lying , i desire to know of master goodwin by the next in case hee have reported from cosens a sectary , a loose person , a man speaking in his own cause , any thing that is untrue , ( which that he hath done i shall infallibly prove ) how he will free himself from the same crime , and not more justly incurre the title of great master cretensis , then i the brand of lying , which he so liberally bestowes upon me . but to come to the particulars , for the first words that cosens should say , iesus christ was a bastard : 't is confessed by him who related it ( though he had it from a very good hand ) that those words are not found in the deposition againg him before two justices ) but these , christ ( alas ) he was a child , and you must not beleeve all the words hee said ; and for the fuller satisfaction of the reader , i do here set down the information and deposition to tittle as it was taken before the major of rochester , and another justice of peace . civit. roffens . the information of john cosens of chatham ' , taken upon oath the day of august , . before john philpot major , and philip ward esquire , iustices of peace within the said city . who saith , that about july last was twelve months , he being at work at the house of master william cobbams , in the said city with robert cosens his brother , they fell into discourse concerning the book of common prayer , when the said robert offered to lay a wager that the same should be put down within a moneth , and should be read no more ; whereupon the said iohn cosens replyed ▪ why brother there are many things there commanded by god ; by what god saith the said robert ? to whom he answered by our saviour christ ? our saviour christ , said robert cosens ( alas ) he was a child , and you must not beleeve all the words he said . his mark . iohn cosens iohn philpot major . philip ward . vera copia , & examinat . per me iohan , goldwell . now i appeale to the reader whether these words related in this deposition , be not blasphemy as well as the other , and whether a mistake might not easily arise from these words deposed , to report the other ; but to put cretensis out of doubt that 't is no lye , nor forgery to report such words , yea and more of some sectaries , cretensis saints , and therefore he needed not to have triumphed so much in it : i will give him two instances of sectaries , who have blasphemed after this manner . the first is one coleburne of watford in the liberty of saint albons , a great anabaptist and sectarie , who spake these words , that our saviour christ was a bastard , and the first time that he taught was in a tub upon the sea . this was found by a jury upon oath , and was returned into the kings bench by certiorarie , in michaelmas terme last . the second is one in midlesex , who is indited at the kings bench , for saying that our saviour christ was a bastard , and the virgin mary a — with many other blasphemous words , which ( being so horrid and filthy ) i think not fit to make publike : this is found by the grand inquest in candlemas terme last , upon the knowledge of one of the said grand inquest ; and to assure the reader of what i write , i have by me the whole processe and particulars at large , which i fetched out of the crowne office , subscribed with the clarks hand , which because they are so large , and i have much exceeded the number of sheets i alotted to this reply , i forbeare to print them ; but if cretensis doubt of the truth of what i here write , he may if he will be at the charge , have the whole proceedings out of the crown office attested under hand . and for cosens speaking these very words , cretensis a little after ( thoug here he denies them ) yet confesses these words were charged upon him ; though upon examination waved ; else what meanes that passage of cretensis , the witnesse upon whose single testimony ( originally ) both these and the former words were charged upon him : now what those former words were , i desire cretensis to resolve in his rejoynder . for the second , that if jesus christ were upon the earth again , hee would be ashamed of many things he then did . this second part of the relation of the information cretensis calls ●a lye , and the second in order , and thereupon enlarges himself after this manner . for neither did the man ( namely cosens ) speak any such words as these , the witnesse upon whose single testimony ( originally ) both these and the former words were charged upon him , upon rexamination , and that upon oath before the committee of the county , waved both the one and the other , as appeares by the said examination under the hand of the clark of the said committee , which i saw and read ; and is forth comming for any man to peruse for his further satisfaction . now that the reader may see what cretensis confidence and impudencie is , and that cosens spake such words as these , i desire him to read what followes to a word , taken out of the originalls , kept in the majors court of rochester . civit. roffens . the information of francis tillet , taken upon oath the . of august , . before master john philpot major , philip ward , and barnabas walsall iustices of the peace within the said city . who saith , that in lent was twelve moneths last , he being upon his duty , at the guard of the bridg at the centry with robert cosens , and some others , he being talking with the said robert cosens about the troubles of the church , and some speech of our saviour christ , he the said cosens then said , that if our saviour christ were now again upon the earth , he would be ashamed of what he had done ; and he further saith , that he heard iohn patten of saint margarets , and iohn cosens brother of the said robert , declare that they have heard him say to the effect aforesaid . the marke of the said francis q tillet . iohn philpot major . philip ward . barnabas walsall . vera copia & examinat . per me iohan , goldwell . now for that which cretens ▪ alledges here to clear cosens , that he never spake any such words as these , 't is all false as i shall demonstrate it to the reader , and i am confident that cretensis with all his rhetorick , and great swelling six footed words , can never clear himself , but must blush for shame , unlesse he be past it , and confesse that either he was too credulous to beleeve such a sectary and a man in his own cause as cosens , or else out of haste and eagernesse to confute me , mistooke the businesse quite , or which is worse , did wilfully , and on purpose write thus to brand me , hoping that i should not be able to disprove him by ever getting the records to testifie the contrary ; and before i do particularly disprove these six or seven lines of cretensis , i shall usher in what i have to say by retorting justly cretensis words upon himself , which he unjustly used against me , that forgery of forgeries , and all is forgery , all over ; for in this confutation of cretensis ( by which you may judge both of those many that go before it , and those few that follow after ) there are not only well-nigh , but altogether , quot verba , tot mendica , and yet even this hath this banner of confidence displayed for the credit of it , as appears by the said examination under hand of the clerk of the said committee , which i saw and read ; and is coming for any man to peruse for his satisfaction ; all which is false as i shall undeniably demonstrate under the clerks hand of the committee ; and therefore if i would deale in such a scoffing way with cretensis , as he hath done by me ( though falsely ) i could marshall his lies , and ranck them in order , first , second , ●hird &c. and could at the end of every one cry , keep tale , score up , tally on , and say this is a fifth ( if not a fifth and sixth ) phib in the relation of cretensis ; for here is a big lye with a lesser in the belly of it ; in brief , there is never a sentence , nay not a clause , nor one word brought by cretensis to disprove this second part of the story of cosens that is true , and yet it hath cretensis seale upon it , and this foundation ( greater then mr. edwards , i was informed for certain ) namely , as it appears by the said examination under the hand of the clerk of the said committee , which i saw and read ; and is forth-coming for any man to peruse for his satisfaction ; and i am confident there are more untruths in these seven lines of cretensis brought to disprove one clause of one story of mine , then in all my gangraena ( unlesse mistakes in the manner of a relation , as in the order or mistake of a name , &c. ) consisting of thirty sheets ; and upon condition that cretensis will promise to submit to this fair condition , to be willing his church should be put down , and to petition with me that upon proof of things by me , his saints may be punished , i am contented to referre the determination of it to authority , and if i make it not good , to be willing to suffer what the parliament shall think fit ; but by the way , if cretensis signall and choyce confutations founded upon examinations under the hand of the clerk of a committee which he saw and read , and is forth-coming for any man to peruse for his satisfaction , be of so dark and dismall a complexion , that there is scarce so much as one beam , or the least glimmering of the light of truth in the whole body of it ; what shall we think of those that have no such image or superscription of confidence upon them , but be only loose informations from anabaptists , apprentices , persons in their own cause & c ? if cretensis chariots and horse-men fail , surely his infantry will yeeld the field . and that i may make good all this which i have said , and not only feed the reader with words and flourishes ( as cretensis doth ) i desire the reader to peruse what followes , which cleerly proves what i say , and confounds cretensis . whereas ceatain articles are exhibited against robert cosens of blasphemy , which he now alledgeth is confest by some of the witnesses to be rather a suborning then truth ; these are to require you to warn these under-written to appear before the committee at ail●ford to morrow being wednesday ; fail not , for which this shall be your warrant . ail●ford novemb. . anthony weldon . iohn bixe . iohn cosens francis tillet iames hills iohn hills george paine william barnet to all constables , and other officers to whom this shall come , &c. let mr. goldwell send a copie of the articles with these witnesses . the examination of francis tillet taken upon oath before sir anthony weldon , william iames , richard beale , and iohn bixe esquires , upon an information of some subornation against robert cosens , novemb. . . who saith that robert cosens and this examinat being together upon the centry , they were talking of the common prayer , and the lords prayer ; and in this discourse the examinate affirmed , that the lords prayer was taught unto him by his forefathers , and that it was of christs making and framing ; whereunto robert cosens replyed , that if our saviour were again upon earth he would be ashamed of what he had done ; and that afterward this examinate relating unto his brother iohn cosens this discourse , the said iohn cosens replyed , that his brother robert had said unto him as much before . andrew lydall clerk committee . now i desire the reader but to compare this examination under the hand of the clerk of the committee with what cretensis hath written anent his businesse , and he will finde cretensis lines brought to clear cosens from speaking these words , to have forgeries in it , numerous beyond measure , the whole and every part of it being nothing but lies ; and for the further conviction of cretensis , i will go over his words . . cretensis saith , neither did the man speak any such words as these . cretensis , how dare you say so , when as before three justices of peace upon oath these words were deposed against him ? is your negative testimony without oath sufficient to disprove it ? . cretensis affirms for proof of his words , that cosens never spake such words as these , that the witnesse upon whose single testimony ( originally ) both these and the former words were charged upon him upon re-examination , and that upon oath before the committee of the county , waved both the one and the other , which is all stark staring false ; and cretensis proof failing him , what is cretensis testimony worth ? now if the reader do but read this examination under the clerk of the committees hand , and compare with that the first deposition of francis tillet before the major of rochester and two other justices , he must presently see it smels above ground , and that here cretensis words takes place in himself , quot verba , tot mendacia : i desire the reader to tell the untruths , and that proved upon record , and not untruths made upon my saying they are lies as cretensis are upon his bare words . . cretensis avoucheth confidently that it was one witnesse upon whose single testimony ( originally ) both these and the former words were charged upon him : let this be the first lie in this catalogue , for 't is evident by the depositions which i have set down , that there were two witnesses , iohn cosens and francis tillet ; francis tillet who swore cosens spake these words , and iohn cosens who deposed the other words ; so that there were two witnesses , and each witnesse deposed not the same , but different words . . cretensis here affirms the former words , namely , that iesus christ was a bastard , were charged upon him ; which if they were , and that upon oath , that was a good ground for the report ; but if they were not charged upon him , but other blasphemous words , then cretensis tels another phib , which is the second in order . . cretensis positively ( without saying i was so informed , &c. ) asserts that these words spoken , viz. by cosens , if christ were upon the earth again he would be ashamed , &c. the witnesse upon re-examination , and that upon oath before the committee of the county waved them : now how false this is , let but the reader compare the first and second deposition of francis tillet , who deposed these words against cosens , before three justices , and upon re-examination , and that upon oath before the committee of the county swore the same again the second time , and was far from waving it as appears by the examination under the clerks hand of the committee which i have set down ; and now i might say to the reader , keep tale , this is the third down-right fall , more then a stumble , this is a big lye with others in the belly of it ; for first the former words were not charged upon cosens by francis tillet , but only these words ; and therefore how could he be re-examined upon that of which he never informed , nor was formerly examined ? secondly , much lesse then could he upon oath wave them ; and for the other words which he was re-examined upon , he stood to them before the committee , and is ready to testifie them still whensoever he shall be called thereunto . . cretensis affirms that he who deposed these words , viz. that if christ were upon the earth again , &c. ) did upon re-examination before the committee wave them , as appears by the said examination under the hand of the clerk of the said committee . now i might here say , score up ; this is the fourth word of folly in cretensis confutation ; for there is no such examination under the hand of the clerk of the said committee , but the contrary to it , as appears by that examination set down already taken upon oath before sir anthony weldon , &c. and subscribed by andrew lydall clerk committee . this untruth may well stand for two , or at least be printed in a capitall letter , because he affirms a grosse lye , and a thing quite contrary to truth , to be under the hand of the clerk of the committee . . cretensis proceeds upon this examination , that he saw it , which i saw ; i might here say , tally on , this is a fifth phib in this relation ; for how could cretensis see that which never was ; but if he saw any such thing that francis tillet should deny these words , he must needs see something that was forged by some of his sectaries , to engage him to confute mr. edwards book . . cretensis further asserts , that he read this under the hand of the clerk of the committee : i might here say cretensis still advances in his cretian way , and this is the sixth flaw ; for how could he read that which never was ? and i conceive cretensis will upon a review of what he hath written , cry peccavi , and say , i was deluded and quite mistaken . . and lastly , the said independent confutation and assertion , for uniformity sake , that it may end as it began , or rather end worse , by rising and ascending in untruths , affirms in the close of it , that this examination is forth-coming for any man to peruse for his satisfaction . now reader remember the account , for this is the seventh and eighth time at least , yea the ninth and tenth that this confutation prevaricateth with the truth ; for in these words , this examination is forth-coming , there are many lyes . first , there is no such examination . seconly , then it cannot be forth-coming . thirdly , not for any one man to peruse , much lesse for any man. and fourthly , it can be much lesse for satisfaction . and i much wonder cretensis , if you had seen and read an examination under the hand of the clerk of the committee , proving what you here say , and confuting this part of the story related by me of cosens , and that tending so much to the satisfaction of any man , why did you not cause it to be forth-coming , printing it here together with your confutation ? certainly cretensis , had you seen and read such an examination under the hand of the clerk of the said committee , there can be no reason given why you should not have printed that , as well as an anabaptists letter written to an anabaptist , and a writing given you from mr. burroughs ; surely an examination under the clerks hand of a committee , would have been more authenticall with rationall men to have convicted my book of untruths , then a letter of an anabaptisticall boy , &c. and therefore for my part , i am confident , cretensis saw that in the examination brought him by cosens , which being printed , would have disadvantaged his foul-mouth'd confutation of this story , either contradicting , or rendring the whole suspected ; and therefore he suppressed it , being willing to blast my book for the present , while it was new come forth , and much sought after ; making account , if after i should be able to disprove him , yet he could not play his after game , either by pleading mistakes , and that he was so informed , or else by his rhetorick and words at will , wrusting either the examination brought him to these word in cretensis , or else these words and phrases of his to the examination ; however one way or other to shift for his credit , and to wrangle it out , in which cretensis hath a wonderfull art and faculty by his wit and largenesse of conscience , to call black white , and to make quidlibet ex quolibet ; and however cretensis , to work the reader to a belief of him in the confutation of this part of the story of cosens , speaks of an examination under the hand of the clerk of the said committee , which he saw and read ; yet i am confident he knew it would not prove what he here saith , and my confidence is upon this ground , because from his own words i gather he had this counter-information from the mouth of the said cosens , and the examination under the hand of the clerk of the committee ( what ever it was ) was brought him by cosens : now i conceive that examination under the hand of the clerk of the committee which cosens shewed cretensis , he also shewed me , which i carefully read , and that in the presence of three citizens , in which there was nothing in the judgement of us four to weaken this testimony of francis tillet ; but rather by that , and the confession of cosens himself to us , much fell from him to confirm the truth of this , and other passages in this story , which i presently writ down as soon as cosens was gone : and for a need , besides my own testimony , those citizens will be ready to witnesse also the truth of what then passed ; so that by all this the reader may see more untruth in one peece of cretensis confutation of the story of cosens , then there are pretended untruths , made by all the art and malice of cretensis against the whole story of cosens ; so that to conclude this i aske of cretensis who is the lyar now ? and i suppose i may more truly apply cretensis own words a little changed , spoken against me to himself : doubtlesse the man hath sold himself to write all , and all manner of untruths , that hee can but scrapple together from what mouths , or tongues , or pens , he cares not so they be but independent in their constitution , and carry any antipathy in them to the honour and good of presbytery ; and in case they be but such , 't is no matter if they be anabaptists , seekers , yea loose drunken persons and blasphemers . cretensis by this answer hath proved many things i spake of in gangraena , all the sectaries and blasphemers closing with independents , and the independents with them to make one common party against the godly orthodox ministers and people of these kingdomes who are for truth and peace . . cretensis proceeds to infringe the truth of my relation of the story of cosens in five other particulars ; but by this part of the story which i have made good , and the many particulars wherein i have disproved cretensis , especially considering 'tis all of the same complexion , cosens information being the sole ground whereupon cretensis goes , ( as he confesses pag. . ) the reader may easily guesse at the rest , and my authors i with the records produced , are more authentick then cosens bare no ; therefore for present i shall not enlarge further upon the third , fourth , fifth heads of cretensis , but reserve to my full reply the whole relation of cosens being bound over by the justices upon these blasphemies attested against him to the sessions , and of his being imprisoned for speaking words against a member of the house of commons , dwelling in that county , and of the complaint for his blasphemies against christ exhibited to the recorder of rochester , and of the recorders binding him to his good behaviour out of the pious sense he had of the wrong done to christ , and the words he spake to him , and of his addresse to the committee of kent for a review of these depositions , &c. only there seems to be some interfering between the third and fourth branch of cretensis confutation ; cretensis denying cosens to be ever under any restraint , or needing any order from any in place , or to any in place to release cosens , in reference to his blasphemies ; and yet he saith presently after , upon the fight of the fore-mentioned examination taken upon oath before the committee , by the justices the man was discharged : now i demand , what was he discharged from ? and whether was not this discharging of the man a releasing of the man ? oportet cretensem esse memorem . . as to cretensis sixt branch , calling that part of the relation of cosens a loud lying information : i reply , 't is a mainifest truth , and will be witnessed by many , that den , lamm , and woodman , all three of them have preached in cosens house , which is so evident in rochester , that as the dayes of the moneth when they preached are known , so are the names of many of the auditours that were present : and for proof of it , 't is given me under hand from rochester , that woodman himself confest it the very same day he preached before a justice of peace and other witnesses , being apprehended by the officers , and brought before him , who being thus convented gave it under his hand , that he would never again preach within five miles of rochester : and though cosens saith he knowes no such man ( which we think , upon good ground , is a lie , ) yet can he deny that woodman hath preached in his house ? which is the thing asserted . . for that last part of the relation of cosens going to master clares , &c. for uniformity sake , made a lie by cretensis , because he was set upon it to blast all for lies ; i reply , that as the first part is confessed to be true , so is the last as true , though denyed ; for master clare affirmes , he said he would complain of him ; and let cosens be think himself what he said of master clare , and he must confesse it . as for that argument cretensis brings why he did not threaten to complain of him , and that the man dares not threaten to question any whatsoever , because 't is his judgment , none ought to be questioned or troubled for their judgements in matters appertaining unto god : i answer , 't is a weak one , and it followes not ; because the sectaries principles and practices do not agree , they practising many things often wherein they professe contrary : how many sectaries have we in these dayes , who plead for , and professe liberty of conscience , which yet have not only threatned godly ministers and christians for their consciences , but actually have brought them into trouble , and punished them severall waies ? surely cretensis , if you had read histories of the church , both ancient and modern , you would have sound hereticks and sectaries , as arians , donatists , anabaptists , socinians , arminians professing as cosens here does , who yet when they have had opportunities , proved great persecuters of the orthodox godly ministers ; and wee well know by many shrewd signes and instances , that if cretensis and his abettors , who have so much pleaded for a toleration , shall come once to get power in their hands , they will as much tolerate presbyterians , as now they will to come into any place , office , employment ecclesiasticall , civill , or military , where 't is in their power to hinder them . and therefore cretensis , you had need bring better arguments to confute my antapologie , ( which your sectaries give out you are upon ) ; or else you will doe the apologists little good either in matter of fact , or in answering the argumentative part of it . . cretensis in his animadversions and inferences made upon my relation of the story of cosens , not knowing who related it to me , nor the occasion of the relation , &c. yet in the close of his confutation of the story of cosens , most falsly and wickedly , without fear or wit , brands him who related it to mee with such words as these , but who is master edwards godly orthodox presbyterian minister● ? is hee not such a one who works stoutly at the forge , and feeds both himselfe and the world with all manner of scandals and falshoods against the independents without fear ? certainly , cretensis throat is an open sepulchre , and the poyson of asps is under his lips . what shall be given unto thee , or what shall be done unto thee , thou false tongue ? this passage against the godly minister who told mee this story , fils up the measure of cretensis rage , lying , and evill speaking ; and hee could hardly have spoken more untrue words then these , whether hee consider the man himselfe , or the manner of his relating it . in one word , the minister who related this story to me , is a reverend , learned , godly , humble , retired man , a man who hath been many yeers of good account in the church of god , a member also of the assembly , and a man far from forging , or feeding himselfe and the world with all manner of scandals against the independents , &c. and this minister did not make it his businesse or work to tell mee this story , coming to mee , or ever intending to come : but i , going in london upon my occasions , this minister accidentally being in a shop with a friend of his , a citizen whom i knew also , i spake to them as i was going by , and they to mee ; and so in the shop exchanging a few words , the citizen asked me if my book were come forth , or when it would : whereupon this minister and i had some words about the subject of it , and falling into discourse , hee related this story to mee and the citizen ; which when i had it from him , the last sheet of my book being either printing off , or quite printed off , i put it in a postscript , as the reader sees : and therefore let all the world judg what untruths cretensis hath belched out against this reverend and worthy minister . but cretensis is a man that in all his writings and sermons falls upon all that come in his way , having no respect of age , place , gifts , sufferings , &c. if they be against his fond conceits and sectaries . and thus , good reader , i have gone over all the particular materiall exceptions made against my book entituled gangraena , by master saltmarsh , master walwyn , and cretensis ; and i doubt not , but by this time , even by this briefer reply , every indifferent reader is satisfied , how unjust and false those outcries and clamours of lyes lyes , are , and how in them that proverb is verified , a great cry , but a little wooll : little cause , but onely the rage and madnesse of the sectaries to see themselves and their wayes so laid open in the sight of the sun. and yet i have not done with my antagonists , but shall more fully anatomize and rip them up , and further justifie and cleer all things excepted against in gangraena , which being lighter , are now passed over , or though spoken unto , need further amplification and illustration . in a word , there is nothing behinde untoucht , that either glances upon mee , or speaks for themselves and their partie ; but i intend to speak to it fully , and am resolved ( god sparing me life and opportunity ) not to die in their debt . and i could now play the rhetorician , and spend some leaves in running over all the errours , heresies , blasphemies , practices , stories , &c. laid down in gangraena , not so much as once offered to be disproved , though they be of persons and things here living , and acted in london , and neer at hand , and which cretensis , with all his gatherings , intelligences , observations and presentations from sectaries of severall sorts , anabaptists , independents , seekers , &c. and of severall parts in the kingdome , kent , essex , london , &c. hath been able to say nothing against ; and might , going from one particular to another , triumph over cretensis , stamping the superscription of truth upon them , and ask him , what say you to the . and . errours laid down in the catalogue ? is it not true that such things were preached in london ? whether is not that which i have related of paul best true ? whether did not master burroughs and master greenhill preach bitterly against the petition of many well affected citizens for the setling of government ? and so i might goe through hundreds ; and of all those facts , opinions , practices that these three men have not been able ( though so willing ) to except against , inferre , conclude , and flourish over cretensis with his owne sword . there is no reasonable man , that considers the malignitie , wrath , &c. of master saltmarsh , master walwyn , but especially of cretensis , against me and my late book , and the opportunities they have had through their acquaintance with sectaries of all sorts ; besides the publick notice given of answering me , as appears by the intelligence and particulars brought in to cretensis from severall places , to furnish him their champion ; together with the extreme eager desire of cretensis taking all advantages against mee , making matter of confutation and lies of that which i am confident was never made by any scholar in an answer before , ( as , the house a meeting for sectaries ; as , the not being able to put the nominative case and verb together , and such like ) but wil think they have spoke the utmost they possibly could against my book , and that of course some of the things drawn up and represented by the hand of envie must needs be false : so that whereas cretensis conceives , that now in his answer hee hath informed the world how many lyes and untruths there are in gangraena ; the truth is , that hee and his fellow-sectaries have done it but faintly , and with the extreme dammage of their own cause : for all wise and unprejudiced men will acquit all the other particulars from the crimes and imputations of lies and falshood , and conclude them all true and certain ; for surely , if there had been any hole to have been picked in them , either the malice , or the wit , or the industry , or one thing or other of cretensis and his associates , would have found it out , and not have spared me : so that the very enemies bear winesse to the truth of the body of my book , the things that are found fault with by them being but a spot here and there , a few in comparison , ( if spots ) and i may say of all the exceptions taken by my three antagonists , supposing them to be mistakes , ( though i have shewed the contrary ) what are these among so many not excepted against , being but as gleanings to the vintage ? cretensis , pag. . and in his last section , winds up his answer in speaking to the reader , that though for the present hee hath given him onely a taste of master edwards grapes , yet sufficient , hee presumes , to convince the reader , that his vine is the vine of sodom , &c. and professes that he hath 〈◊〉 read one quarter of the book as yet , nor knowes nor whether ever hee shall care to read it thorow or no : and then labours to possesse the reader , that what hee hath not answered , others will very shortly : a few dayes ( hee makes no question ) will give the reader more light to comprehend the darknesse of gangraena ; and prophesies , the day will come , and is even at the door , when there will be scarce one stone left upon another of all this false building , which will not be pull'd down by the hand of truth : and when the servants of god shall have had the opportunity to wash off that durt and filth which mr. edwards hath cast upon them , gangraena will be found a strumpet , yea , and of the race and linage of that great scarlet whore , which corrupteth the earth with her fornication . reply . as for cretensis saying , hee hath onely for present given a taste of master edwards grapes , implying , hee could feed the reader with whole clusters , and intimating hee hath a great deal more to say to my book , as other passages expresse besides this , viz. pag. . i presume that mistris gangraena hath not as yet paid mee the tythe or tenth part of her forgeries , &c. i answer , i beleeve cretensis hath said all hee possibly could against gangraena ; i doe not think hee left out any thing hee could object against it : whosoever reads but his answer , and observes his rage and heat , his playing at the smallest games , and picking of straws to finde matter against my book to fill up six sheets with , railing and declaiming against it , will not think hee gave but a taste , or a tenth . but how could cretensis say hee had given onely a taste for the present , and not the tenth part , when as hee professes truely hee had not read one quarter of the book then , neither knew whether hee should ever care to read it thorow or no ? could hee divine of what hee had not read , nor knew not whether ever hee should reade , that there was ten times more behinde ? and besides , how could cretensis , out of what hee knew not whether hee should ever read , promise the reader to give him not onely a taste , but abundance ? certainly cretensis meant the far greatest part of his grapes promised the reader , should be gathered by other hands , and be ( as hee saith of the particulars detected already ) observed by others , and presented to him : and after this rate of the farre greatest part of particulars observed by others , and presented to him , 't is easie for cretensis to give answers ; and i much wonder we have no more of them , but that he takes almost two yeers to give an answer to the antapologie . and no wonder , cretensis going upon an implicite faith , making an answer out of particulars observed by others , without reading one quarter of my book , not seeing with his own eyes , but making use of a pair of independent , antinomian , anabaptisticall , &c. spectacles to write with , the man is so much mistaken , and sometimes takes that to be great which is little , and that which is great hee cannot see at all . as for that cretensis saith , that hee presumes by the taste hee hath given , hee hath convinced the reader that my vine is the vine of sodom , my grapes grapes of gall , my clusters bitter , &c. i beleeve every reader who is not bewitched with the independent schismaticall way , is convinced , that cretensis hath said enough to satisfie all men , that his vine is the vine of sodom , that his grapes are grapes of gall , his wine the poyson of dragons , and the cruell venome of asps , and that generally all men say of his answer , yea , some of his owne party cry out of it , that it is too bitter : but as for my gangraena , though objectivè , the object about which the book is exercised be the vine of sodom , grapes of gall , poyson of dragons , and the cruell venome of asps , treating of and laying open the heresies , blasphemies and practices of the sectaries , which indeed are poysonous and venemous ; yet subjectivè , the discourse it selfe , and the way of handling those things , is healing and medicinall to cure the reader of those stings and poysons , which by eating of those sowr grapes of the sectaries they have contracted ; and my book is farre from being like the vine of sodom , the poyson of dragons , that in writing of it i have plaid the part of a physician , made a precious treacle and soveraigne antidote to cure and expell poysons , by correcting , qualifying , binding them , &c. laying open the errours , heresies , &c. their evill , danger , and discovering remedies and cures proper for them , which , were they taken , and the prescriptions followed , i am confident would prove the healing of these nations . as for cretensis profession that he hath not read one quarter of the book as yet ; nor knowes whether he shall ever care to read it through or no : i reply , that cretensis at once , and in one breath discovers himself to be both weak and proud , he shows his folly and horrible pride . first , his folly ; for what wise man that had reason and common sense , though he could not cretensis pag. . . have * construed a peece of latin , write true english , nor framed the structure of a period according to the common rules of grammar , would have writ so ? and truly this and other passages in this answer , confirms me much in that opinion which many understanding learned divines have had of cretensis a great while , that he is no judicious rationall man ( as his followers cry him up ) but only a wordy divine , a multitude of words , that 's all ; that being true of him which was said of erasmus , that his writings were verba , non res ; but of this folly of cretensis , the reader may remember what i have written page . of this book ; and let cretensis ever take me so writing , and i will confesse my folly . seconly , 't is horrible pride and arrogancie ; what a proud passage is this , cretensis thinks himself so great , and looks down with such disdain upon me , as that he knowes not whether ever he shall care to read my book thorough or no , ●lighting it as not being worth his reading , nor i worthy to carry his books after him ; this speech indeed is neer akin to that in page . indeed if independent ministers had either the priviledge of ease to preach to the bare walls and pewes in their meeting places : the independent ministers are so taken up with preaching to great congregations , and with the resort of great persons to their houses , and with the consultations they are admitted untill mid-night about great affairs ; and particularly cretensis of late , as 't is talked every where in london , that he knowes not whether he shall ever care to read my book thorough or no , or shall ever have leasure to do it ; but cretensis , let me tell you how much soever you slight my books , and care not to read them thorough , as too much below you , yet there are your betters for all kind of learning , yeers , piety , that care to read thorough my books , and blesse god for them ; and though they be of as piercing deep judgements as cretensis , yet could never find that non-sense , weaknesse of judgement , &c. which cretensis ▪ speaks of so often . as for that cretensis promises the reader , that a few dayes ( he makes no question ) will give the reader more light wherewith to comprehend my darknesse , implying as if more answers were suddenly to come forth , to discover the falshood of matters contained in gangraena . i reply , a few dayes are past , yea some weeks , between seven and eight , and yet there is none of cretensis new-light come forth , no answers disproving any one particular in my book ; there is a book indeed of one bacons come forth , who both in the title page and book speaks of my gangraena , but he confesses the truth of what i speak of him , viz. his being put out of gloster , his being received in a great mans house , and his going to bristoll since the parliaments taking of it ; so that it seems by the confession of one of cretensis●a●nts ●a●nts , all matters are not lyes which are mentioned in gangraena ; and yet before master bacons book came forth , i was told confidently severall times ( as the report of the sectaries ) that was one of my lyes , speaking of master bacons going to bristoll , whereas he had never been out of london since the taking of bristoll : but i suppose however cretensis dayes are past , and nothing is come forth to comprehend my darknesse , yet i make no question but this reply with the further reply coming after will give light to the reader to comprehend cretensis●his ●his darknesse . as to that passage of cretensis , that the farre greatest part of the particulars detected , were observed by others , and presented to him ; i reply , though i have animadverted upon it already page . in observation . and also in this present section , yet i shall adde this , ( that besides his great weaknesse in taking things upon trust , and making an answer to a book out of other mens collections ▪ himself never reading one quarter of the book ) he here proclaims himself guilty of the great crime and transgression which in many places of his answer he loads me with , and with all his railing rhethorick aggravates against me , namely of persons resorting to him to furnish him with intelligence , his taking up and entertaining of reports , his publishing them to the world , wherein besides his contradicting other passages in his answer , as that in page . nor doe i hold intelligence with any man to inform my self of his haltings , he shows himself faulty in laying snares of intelligence in many places , and holding correspondence with severall parts of the kingdom to receive intelligence of the miscarriages and undue deportments of all such as are anti-independently given ; and if it were not so , whence comes it that so many particulars detected and observed by others , were presented to him , and that cretensis hath ready by him a yeer ago , a manuscript in his hands concerning master edwards himself , discoursing his jugling ; a story also of a presbyterian angel , together with a story of the doctorate it self of the assembly , yea that all sorts of sectaries , and that from severall places have resorted to cretensis with presents in their hands towards the perfecting of this goodly work , as master burroughs , li●utenant colonel lilburn , ki●●in , cosens , a friend of master ellis in london , &c. being like so many rivers 〈◊〉 and emptying themselves into the cretian sea , where all these meeting make so many raging waves to beat upon and disturb the ship of the reformed church ; all these sectaries ● though distant from one another in places , opinions , yet as so many lines meet altogether in master goodwyn against the presbyterians ; and as in this , so in other particulars wherein cretensis deeply charges me , he himself is most faulty , as in taxing me with immodest lascivious expressions , for printing a letter where an immodest fact is related ( though for such a foul offence modestly expressed ) when as cretensis , as of himself , and as his own words ( when free to have used any other ) speaks of monthly courses , &c. more then once ▪ expressions most immodest and uncivill . for that expression of cretensis by that time the boughs of the trees are a little more withered , they will be broken off , the women will come and set them on fire . i answer , i suppose by this time the boughs of the tree , instead of being withered , doe flourish more , and are more fresh and green , and do here bring forth new fruit ▪ and whereas cretensis had for a 〈◊〉 cast ▪ dust and dirt upon this tree , my reply like a good shoute of raine , hath washed all off , making it look pleasantly , smell sweet , and cretensis answer by that time i have done with it , it will not only be like boughs a little withered , and broken off , but like saint iudes sectaries , a tree whose fruit withereth , without fruit , twice dead , and plucked up by the roots . as to those words of cretensis , the day will come , and is even at the doore , when there will be a scarce one stone left upon another of all this false building , which will not be puld down by the hand of truth . i reply , for all cretensis prophesying of such a day , and that even at the doore ; there is no such day yet come , not any hand since cretensis , having pull'd down one stone from this building , though it be now about two months ago since cretensis threatned this ; but the reader may see the contrary is fulfilled this day , and that instead of pulling down this building of gangraena , the building is enlarged a story higher , and in breadth also , by the addition of this second part of gangraena ; and cretensis will finde gangraena will bee so farre from being puld down , that other buildings of the same kinde will bee framed by it ; and this first stone laid by mee , or first building will prosper into a rowe , a whole street before i and others have done with the sectaries , whereas cretensis babels , built without any foundation , and daubed with untempered mortar , will fall down to the ground , and be as a refuge for lies , that fails , and is swept away as the spiders cobweb . and lastly , to those words of cretensis , when the servants of god shall have had the opportunity to wash off that dirt and filth which master edwards hath now cast upon them , gangraena will be found a strumpet ; &c. i reply , the most of those persons whom i have named in gangraena , i durst not for all the world call them the servants of god thus publikely as cretensis doth , lest i should be found guilty of strengthening them in their wicked errours and practices ( but of my grounds in this , the reader shall have a more full account in my second reply ) : and therefore ( meaning it of such ) the servants of god shall have no opportunity to wash off that dirt and filth which i have cast upon them ; for they that are such , as clarkson , webb , wright , hich , denne , nichols , l●m , oats , kiffin , walwyn , marshall , ienney , mistris a●●eway , cum multis aliis , ( i may say with the apostle ) serve not our lord iesus christ but their own bellies , and their own lusts ; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple . but as for some few , among many whom i have named in gangraena , as master burroughs , master greenhill , and some such , it may be they are the servants of god , and saints , though wherein i have blamed them , they walk as men , and as carnall , and not as saints ; and can never wash off that dirt i have cast upon them ( so is cretensis phrase ) without repentance , and that they will finde one day , when they shall come to be awakened from their wine . and therefore instead of gangraena being found a strumpet , cretensis will be found a lyar , and gangraena a chaste lady , and true virgin ; and it will appear ( i doubt not , before it be long ) when the time of the reigne of the sectaries shall be over , and they no more heard of , unlesse it bee by way of a proverb and reproach , that then master edwards gangraena shall be looked upon by all as a witnesse of the truth , even against sectaries in the ages to come , and as a discovery of the wickednesse and vilenesse of the sectaries of this time . and whereas cretensis would make my book of the linage and race of the great woore corrupting the earth , &c. gangraena is of a quite different nature , and contrary linage , being a great means ( through the blessing of god ) of preserving the earth from being corrupted and tainted by the fornications and poysonous principles of the sectaries ; the book doing much good ; as i could prove by plentifull testimonies of letters written from many parts , as also by speeches expressed of it : and if c●etensis would confesse , that 's the true reason hee is so offended with it , because it hinders making of proselytes , and so for want of growing up to such a number as they desig●e and hope for , they may misse of a toleration , and so in the issue , a domination , which is so much sought for by them , and for a conclusion of my reply to cretensis , i shall turne my selfe to speake a few words to master goodwin , and to the reader . master goodwin , consider sadly of what you have done in your book cretensis , how you are become guilty , and have made your selfe partaker of all the heresies , b●asphemies , wicked practices i have spoken against , in pleading for all ( without any distinction ) as saints , servants of god , and such like , and speaking against with envenomed malignity that necessary usefull book as a very pest and plague , which i writ for discovery of errours and erroneous persons , that so the saints might take heed , and beware of them ; and in which all godly orthodox , faithfull ministers doe rejoyce , and blesse god for it . o wretched man , to carry things so , as if errours would doe no harme to mens soules , but a book written against them , that will hurt and hazzard mens soules ; which is all one , as if a man should say strong poyson would doe no hurt , nor kill , but a precious antidote will destroy and ruine mens bodies . and now , good reader , i desire thee impartially and without prejudice to weigh cretensis objections and exceptions against my book , and my answers , and then judge whether i have not wounded , and laid this great goliah of the sectaries ( coming out in defiance against the reformed churches ) upon his back ; and whether god , who chuseth the weak things of the world to confound the things that are mighty ; and things which are despised , to bring to nought things that are of esteeme , hath not made use of me , a man so vilified by the sectaries , a poor weak thimble full of dust , by the wind strongly blowing this thimble full of dust into cretensis eyes , to blinde him , and befool him . and yet i have not done with cretensis , but let the reader look for what 's behind , viz. my fuller reply ; and what ever in this first is either omitted , or not so fully spoken unto , in that he may look to receive more satisfaction . and i no whit doubt , but that , as i have now ( by gods assistance ) made a good beginning both defensive and offensive ; so by the same good hand upon me , i shall in the next give so good an account , that i shal deal with this daring enemy , as little david with goliah , stand upon him , and triumph over him , and give you his head upon the top of my sword : and in my next i intend to dresse him up , and set him out in all his ornaments and flowers , in his practices , opinions , and wayes of promoting them ; in all which i shall render him and his name an abhorring to this and the following generations . since cretensis answer , there is a book come forth , written by one mr. bacon , which book is answered by one mr. corbet , ( the man whom in that book hee so often speaks of ) and it is abroad in print already : what i spake of him in gangraena , hee in that book confesses , as his being cast out of glocester , and his coming to london , &c. speaking particularly of that which i touched only , and but in generall ( as the lords house in which hee lives . ) and besides that , i heare one web hath an answer in the presse to what i relate of him pag. , . which answer , before it went to the presse , by a providence came to my hand without ever seeking it , or indeed imagining that ever web ( such an heretike and blasphemer ) durst have appeared in print , or been taken notice of to be in london , for feare of being questioned for those things i have written of him : but wee may see what sad times wee are fallen into , and that the sectaries are grown fearlesse , that they dare come abroad and plead their desperate cause , as master saltmarsh , walwyn ; so now master bacon , and web ; which symptome , among many others , makes mee feare the night and darknesse is at hand , when as the wolves and the wild beasts dare come thus out of their dens ; whereas when the sun arises they go to their dens . the psalmist tels us , psal. . , . thou makest darknesse , and it is night , when all the beasts of the forrest do creep forth . the sun ariseth , they gather themselves together , and lay them downe in their dens . hence the scripture cals wolves the wolves of the evening , zeph. . . and look as the frogs croaking and making a noyse use to be in the evening , so the croaking of false teachers resembled to wolves , the beasts of the forrest , and frogs , presages the going downe of the sun , and night coming . but because i purpose not to trouble my selfe with giving any formall answer to it by it selfe , i shall now give these animadversions upon it : first , that web confesses most of the things i relate of him ; only hee saith of some of them , hee had recanted and disclaimed them ; and i should not have upbraided him , but rejoyced in his conversion . but unto that i reply ; had not this web , since his recantation and release , both in citie and countrey , vented many desperate things , and gone on in his hereticall wayes , i should never have mentioned them . secondly , that this web rancks himselfe in his answer among the independents , speaking of mee as being so against him out of my ill will to independents ; and i finde iohn bachiler , an independent , not onely ( april . . ) setting his imorimatur , but helping him in his answer , mending severall things in the answer : as for example , for those words i charge him with , that he should say , for him to say he was equal with christ , was no robberie ; in his answer to that , bachiler helps this blasphemer , and takes part with him : as for instance , whereas web justifies it , that gods love is the same in every respect unto the saints as unto christ , and therefore a saint may say he is equall with christ , and count it no robbery ; [ in every respect ] is blotted out by bachiler . and vveb further pleading he might say , the saints were equall to christ ; next following these words of webs , [ as i conceive , the word of god to be my rule , ] there is interlined under bachilers hand these words , [ provided i meet with a faire and candid interpretation of my words . ] and so i could instance in divers other alterations : so that we may see the independents will not lose any the most blasphemous , atheisticall hereticall men , but further them , and joyne with them against the presbyterians , licensing their writings , helping them to conceale , and deliver more cautelously their dangerous opinions . thirdly , for that which is related by me in gangraena of webs speaking so wickedly of the scriptures , he denyes it not , but saith to this purpose , how could hee say so ? for he should contradict himselfe in other things which he hath said and holds : but to that i answer , 't is no new thing for such men as he to say , and unsay , affirme and deny according to the companies they come in , and advantages they think they have . fourthly , to that which i relate of him concerning those expressions of his , we might not say , god the father , god the sonne , god the holy ghost , he makes some shuffling answer ; but i reply , he spake so , and i can produce good proof of that and all the rest . if a committee of parliament shall be pleased to take notice of it , and send for this web , and proceed against him upon proof , i am ready to produce witnesses , and upon his owne confession and those witnesses to make proofe . onely i desire the reader to take good notice of one expression in his answer to this head , which shewes the ignorance both of him and bachiler in the very principles of religion ; and is not bachiler a fit man in such a kingdome as this , to bee a licenser of divinitie bookes and controversies , who besides that hee is no minister , nor well studied man , is such an ignoramus as this clearely discovers him to bee ? web saying hee acknowledges the trinitie , the father , sonne , and holy ghost , hath these words , that hee acknowledges the father is the sonne , and the holy ghost , and to that purpose ; whereas wee are taught from the scriptures by all orthodox divines , that though everie person be god , as the father is god , the son is god , and the holy ghost is god ; yet the father is not the son , nor the father is not the holy ghost ; nor the son the father , nor the holy ghost . now bachiler passes this , and though he mended many other passages in webs answer putting in words in some places , blotting out words , and changing some expressions for others , yet hee let this passe without any correction or note upon it ; which no man can conceive to proceed from any thing else but profound ignorance . and that the reader may know i speak these things upon good ground , i perused this answer after it was licensed with master bachilers hand , and compared the hand of imprimatur , iohn bachiler , with the hand where other words were put in , and found it the same hand , and writ out with my hand , severall amendments made by iohn bachiler , which i have by mee in writing , and then subscribed my hand under them , with the day of the month when i extracted them out of the originall copie ; and one being with mee , who was a witnesse of all this , i also intreated his hand to attest it , which hee willingly did : all which i can produce to satisfie any man who desires it . and for the winding up of all i have to say by way of reply to mr. saltmarsh , mr. goodwine , &c. in vindication of my gangraena , by this time , the reader may see what to thinke , if among so many hundred particulars which are laid downe by me of errours , heresies , blasphemies , stories , &c. with so much variety , such a venemous virulent man , picking and chusing , catching and snatching , having intelligence , and great resort to him from sectaries of all sorts , and out of severall parts , as essex , kent , &c. could yet finde so few things to question in gangraena , ( which yet also are justified and made good ; ) what must the whole body of the booke be , which is not so much as touched , either by cretensis , or any of the rest ? and that which alone may satisfie any rationall man that there is too much truth in gangraena , is this , that i have never been called in question to make the things good . i have beene informed from good hands , that some of the sectaries have had meetings , consultations , and severall debates about my book , what to doe in it , whether to complaine , or what else ; and i am confident if they were not afraid that things would bee found too true , and very foule , and upon the through examination might hazzard the danger of bringing an old house upon their heads , and the punishing of many , they would before this time have tried all their friends , and party , to see what they could have done against mee : having finished my reply to cretensis , master saltmarsh and master walwin , as before it i gave the reader a fresh , and farther discoverie of errours , heresies , practices of the sectaries ; so i shall finish this book with matters of that kind , laying downe more errours , heresies , blasphemies , stories , letters , concerning the sectaries , concluding all with a few corollaries drawne from the whole book . and first , i shall add other dangerous errours come lately to my hand ; and so the first of these errours in this latter part of my book is the * errour . . that saints are justified by the essentiall righteousnesse of god , and not by christs obedience . for the full proofe of this , i will give the reader ( verbatim to a tittle ) a passage taken out of a letter written by a godly minister in bristoll , to a godly minister here in london , wherein this minister writing to his friends that things are prettie well here , and speaking of his owne preaching there , saith , one of the greatest rubs in the towne , is the br●aching of a mad errour concerning the justification of saints by the essentiall righteousnesse of god , and not by christs obedience , which some do hold , and expresse with a world of vanitie and contempt of christ. * andreas osiander an acute and great divine , who lived in luthers time , held such an errour , though not expressed with that vanitie and contempt of christ , as these sectaries do now ; concerning which opinion of osiander , and the great abilities that were in him , and his way of managing that and other opinions , schollars may be further satisfied by reading osianders life written by melchior adamus , and schlusselburgius in his catalogue of heretikes , de secta osiandrist . . when either of the parties married is asleepe , the other is free of the bond of matrimony , sleep being in a kind naturall death for the time , and by death the bond of matrimony is null ; so that if a woman should have to do with any other man , her husband being asleep , she committeth not adulterie . . that the apocrypha books , and particularly the book of esdras ▪ are canonicall and the scriptures , as well as the canonicall books generally owned by all to be scripture . . that the people of god are a free people , and what they do they should do freely and voluntarily , and not be assessed and rated by the parliament , compelled to pay rate upon rate , assessment upon assessment . . that the * saints and beleevers , who have husbands or wives that are unbeleevers , they may put them away and take others , because god gave wives to be a meet help , and the saints are to proceed to cast of all antichristian yoaks , a chiefe whereof are unequall marriages . . that sin is but a shadow . . the promises belong to sinners as sinners , not as repenting , or humbled sinners . . faith is truly and simply this , a being perswaded more or lesse of christs love . . that there is no other seale but the spirit , and for the elements consecrated to be signes and seales to us in the sacraments , they are not , but emptie things and of no effect . . that christ is baptisme to us , the outward signe needleesse . . no christian magistrate hath power of inflicting capitall punishment , and taking away of the life of any member of a church , unlesse first he be cast out of the church , and so delivered to the secular power , no , what ever his offence should be , though murther or treason . . that place of scripture , hee that sheddeth mans bloud , by man shall his bloud be he shed , belongs to moses his disciples , and not to christs disciples , and christians have nothing to do with it . in my last book i gave the reader an account of many of the practices of the sectaries , both more generally and particularly : and i instanced in twentie eight practices : now , though there are many more behind , yet because my book is both expected suddenly to come forth , and is enlarged beyond my first intention , i will only instance in two . . they do deny and professe to many that they are no independents , no antinomians , no anabaptists , but they are thus and thus , and will be so and so ; and these are but reproachfull names given out , and cast upon honest , godly , conscientious men by the ministers and presbyterians , as puritan and such like , were in former times by the bishops ; and of this i could give the reader many proofs in printed books of the anabaptists , independents , antinomians , as such churches falsly called anabaptists , &c. and now there is never an independent in england , if you will but take what themselves say , though they be such who stickle , act , work , vote , and by all wayes , in all places , where they have any thing to do , promote , side with independents , anabaptists , &c. yet they will confidently say they are no independents , they are of no church way , nor know not what it is ; nay , some of them will say they are presbyterians in their judgement , or at least do wait and stay to see what the results of the assembly and parliament after them will be ; and yet there is many of these men , that let any person or thing come in nomination and competitition , that concerns presbyterie , and they will favour , promote , further independencie ( be it right or wrong ) and on the contrarie discountenance , hinder , obstruct the presbyterians , wherein they just walk in the steps of the bishops and their creatures , who upon all occasions dsclaimed poperie , arminianisme , and when papists and arminians were spoken of , they would be hot against them , and were against poperie properly so called ( as the expression was ) and against arminius ( meaning those points arminius held about the government of the church ) not those of grace and free-will , &c. and yet these bishops and their chaplains preferred arminians and persons popishly affected , licensed books tending that way , brought them oft when in trouble , would remember those who preached against poperie and arminianisme ; and it was observed , and i have been told it by a man of place in those times , who disliked such wayes , that when the arch-bishop blustered and spoke most against any priest or papist , and for the church of england , then the next newes they were sure to hear of , was a release ; and whether there be not too many such in these times , who will not be accounted independents , anabaptists , antinomians , that yet countenance their books , are familiar with such , being all in all with them , bringing them off when in question , sitting hard on the skirts ( when there is any opportunitie ) of all those who have complained , or been active against the sectaries , i leave to all to judge . . some of the sectaries when they have been questioned , and in trouble , or been by some ministers convinced , that they had nothing to say for themselves and their way , have and will do any thing for the present , as recant , confesse their errours , say they are convinced and satisfied , promise never to go about preaching or dipping any more ; and yet afterwards , when free , and come to their companions , go on in their wayes , both against their hands , promises , professions ; and of this there are many examples and instances among us , as of a sectarie an emissarie sent into northamptonshire , being for his doctrines , separated meetings , affronting a minister in the pulpit , complained of by some ministers , and questioned by the magistrates , gave it under-his hand to forbeare his course , and return home ; yet afterwards goes to other parts of the countrey , and drawes the people into houses , preaching to them , &c. so some sectaries of lams church , or their great associaces , coming into essex , to corrupt the people ; and some of the ministers dealing with them upon some of their tenets , convinced them so , as that they openly blessed god for that dayes work , and the light they had received , even weeping for joy ; and yet presently afterwards going on their progresse to seduce at another town in the same countie ( some hint or notice being given of their late conviction ) they said they wept to think how nigh the ministers were come to them ; and so i might give instance in clarkson professing against the dipping to get out of prison , and as soon as he was loose turning seeker ; and so in ● b ; but i must take off my hand ; only this fulfils what is spoken in the scriptures of heretikes , that they have their consciences seared with an hot iron , and sin , being condemned of themselves . a relation of some stories , and other remarkable passages concerning the sects and sectaries . there is an independent antinomian libertine preacher here in london , a man much followed and cried up by the sectaries , who in sermons hath delivered these passages , that a poore whoore-master , or a poore drunkard cannot look into your churches ( speaking of the presbyterian preachers ) but hell fire must be flashed and throwne in their faces . that if a saint should commit a grosse sin , and upon the committing thereof should be startled at it , that were a great sin in him ; and in obedience to this and other doctrines of some of the sectaries of our times , i will give the reader some instances both of words and facts . there is a godly understanding man , an old disciple , who told me on april . . that having a daughter , a young maid , religiously affected , shee was drawn in to affect the independents , and to cry them much up , and to follow them , and shee procured her selfe to be servant in a family of some rank and place , where the master and mistresse are independents : now being there , she expected some great holinesse and extraordinarie strictnesse in the family ; but she found matters thus . on the lords day they were verie loose , in the fore-noon they would go to heare mr. sterry at white-hall , ( as not living far from thence ) but in the after-noon stay at home , and some other independents and sectaries resorting thither on the lords day in the after-noon , they spent it in common discourse , making no more of it than other dayes ; a great part of their discourse on the lords day being railing against the scots , and against some of our ministers , and the books written against the sectaries ; and some men ( whom a man could hardly have thought it of ) would curse the scots , saying , a pox upon the scots , would they were gone , we would give them any thing to be rid of them , and pay them all their money in time : many persons of note of the independent faction did often resort to this house , and still they would speak most bitterly and basely of our brethren of scotland : the master of the family would be often attempting to kisse this young maid , watching her upon the staires and other places , as going up and down , and hath tempted her to be naught , insomuch that the young maid spake to him , sir , you have a wife of your owne , why should you speak thus ? how dare you offer to do this wickednesse , and sin against god ? vnto whom this gentleman the independent ( and an antinomian too surely ) replied , ☞ that god saw no sin in his children , that these were but sins in the flesh , which christ had satisfied for , with other words to that purpose . one time this man tempting her , threw her all along , so that she was forced to cry out , and her mistresse came in to her rescue , and said , fie husband , will you never leave these tricks ? whereupon the maid would not stay , but came away , and when her father heard it , he would not indure she should stay any longer , but had her away presently ; and so this young maid is converted from being an independent and sectarie , by beholding their carriage and loosenesse , blessing god she is delivered from that way and those persons : she had thought the sectaries had been such holy persons , that there had been none like them , till she saw both that family , and many who resorted thither of the same way , so loose . this godly christian tells me , that his daughter is ready to take her oath of the truth of these things which she hath both seen and heard , and with many circumstances hath declared to him , as the names of such that resorted thither , that she never knew nor heard of before , with other circumstances ; and that he believes them to be so true , as that they are past all question . there is a sectary , an independent antinomian taylor , who stealing a whole yard of plush from a gentleman , and some yards of sattin from another , and being found out in his sin , and convinced , so that he could not deny it ; some speaking to him how sorrie they were that such a man as he should do these things ; he replied , ( as i had it from two honest men of good account ) to this effect , that he was troubled for them to see them sorrie , but as for himselfe , he was not troubled . one of the followers of mr. simpson the antinomian , said it in the hearing and presence of divers ( mr. simpson being then also present ) that if a child of god should commit murder , he ought not to repent of it , and mr. simpson never reproved him for it , though by one present in the company he was spoken unto to doe it . an antinomian preacher preaching in london on a f●st day , said , it was better for christians to bee drinking in an ale-house , or to be in a whore-house , then to be keeping fasts legally . many sectaries have said , that when david lived in adulterie and murther , even before his repentance he was as deare in the sight of god as ever he was at any time . there is one samuel oats a weaver ( a man i have spoken of in my former book , and in this too , page . ) who being of lams church , was sent out as a dipper and emissary into the countreyes : last summer i heard he went his progresse into surrey and sussex , but now this yeare he is sent out into essex three or foure months ago , and for many weeks together went up and downe from place to place , and towne to towne , about bo●hen , braintry , tarling , and those parts , preaching his erroneous doctrines , and dipping many in rivers ; this is a young lusty fellow , and hath traded chiefly with young women and young maids , dipping many of them , though all is fish that comes to his net , and this he did with all boldnesse and without all controul for a matter of two moneths : a godly minister of essex coming out of those parts related , hee hath baptized a great number of women , and that they were call'd out of their beds to go a dipping in rivers , dipping manie of them in the night , so that their husbands and masters could not keep them in their houses , and 't is commonly reported that this oats had for his pains ten shillings apeece for dipping the richer , and two shillings six pence for the poorer ; he came veriebare and meane into essex , but before hee had done his work , was well lined , and growne pursie . in the cold weather in march , hee dipped a young woman , one ann martin ( as her name is given in to me ) whom he held so long in the water , that she fell presently sicke , and her belly sweld with the abundance of water she took in , and within a fortnight or three weeks died , and upon her death-bed expressed her dipping to be the cause of her death . there was another woman also whom he baptized , as a godly minister that came out of those parts , and had beene at braintry related to me from a good hand , whom after he had baptized , he bid her gape , and she gaped , and he did blow three times into her mouth , saying words to this purpose , either receive the holy ghost , or now thou hast received the holy ghost . at last for his dipping one who died so presently after it , and other misdemeanors the man was questioned in the countrey , and bound over to the sessions at chen●ford , where aprill the seventh , . this oats appeared , and i had the relation i now speak of , from three persons that were eare and eye-witnesses , two godly ministers , and the other gentlemen of great worth and qualitie , viz. that oats being brought before the bench , the coroner laid to his charge , that in march last , in a verie cold season , hee dipping a young woman , shee presently fell sick and died within a short time , and though the coroner had not yet perfected his sitting upon her death , all witnesses being not yet examined , nor the jurie having brought in their verdict ( so that the full evidence was not presented ) yet the bench , upon being acquainted with the case , and other foule matters also being there by witnesses laid against him , committed him to the jaile at colchester : it was laid to his charge then , that hee had preached against the assessments of parliament , and the taxes laid upon the people , teaching them , that the saints were a free people , and should do what they did voluntarily , and not be compelled ; but now contrarie to this , they had assessment upon assessment , and rate upon rate . some passages also in his prayer were repeated , as that hee prayed the parliament might not cart the ark , nor meddle with making lawes for the saints , which jesus christ was to do alone . since oats commitment to colchester jaile , there hath been great and mightie resort to him in the prison , many have come downe from london in coaches to visit him , as a godly minister who came out of essex told me : and i have a letter by me from a minister in colchester , sent last week to a friend of his in london , wherein he writes thus ; oats the anabaptist hath had great resort to him in the castle , both of town and countrey ; but the committee ordered the contrarie last saturday . there is one collier , a great sectarie in the west of england , a mechanicall fellow , and a great emissarie , a dipper , who goes about surrey , hampshire , and those counties thereabouts , preaching and dipping ; about a fortnight ago on the lords day he preached at guilford in the meeting-place , and to the company of one old mr. close , an independent minister , who hath set up at guilford , and done a great deale of mischiefe , having drawn away many of the well-meaning people from the ministerie of those godly ministers , whom before they much prized ; there this collier exercised , and it was given out in the countie he was a rare man , and the people came from the towns about to heare him : this fellow , in his circuit , at an exercise where he was preaching to many women for rebaptization and dipping , made use of that scripture to that purpose ( as it is reported ) isa. . . and in that day seven women shall take hold of one man , saying , wee will eat our owne bread , and weare our owne apparell : only let us be called by thy name , to take away our reproach . and truly , it is a sad thing there should be such emissaries ( so like the devill their master , compassing the earth , and going about seeking whom they may devoure ) in the severall parts of the kingdome , north , east , west , and south , not one part free ; for the east and south , we who live in these parts know it fully , for london , kent , the associated counties . as for the west ( besides this instance of collier ) i received a letter out of dorsetshire , dated march . written by a godly minister from thence ; sir , i am not yet furnished to my mind with particulars of that nature you expect ; but with the help of my fellow-ministers in these parts , i shall send them to you in an exact historie of our westerne confusions . and for the north , besides many instances i could give you of hull , beverley , york , hallifax , &c. of independent churches gathered there , and of many anabaptists and other sectaries in those places , i shall only desire the reader to mind these three or four lines written to me from a countrey further north : i received the books sent me , and shall make the best use i can of them ; the one i keep for mine owne use , the other i pleasure friends with ( and truly never more need in our countrey ; ) for whereas formerly wee wanted the ministerie , now wee have such varietie and strife amongst them , that truly i know not what will become of us . a person of qualitie and a godly man told me ( april . ) meeting me accidentally in westminster hall , that ( saith he ) just now , neere the house of commons doore , i had discourse with a great sectarie ( viz. one of wrights disciples , and presently the man came into the hall with another great sectarie , and he shewed me him : ) and the discourse was as followes , that he would be loth the parliament should bring paul bests bloud upon them for his denying the trinitie . whereupon this gentleman answered him , that he could prove cleerly out of the scriptures a trinitie of persons . vnto whom this sectarie replied , how will you prove the scriptures to be the word of god ? and this sectarie reasoned against them , saying , there were twentie severall scriptures , as many as translations , and translations are not true ; for so the priests will tell us , that this is not rightly translated : and for the originals there are divers copies ; besides , i cannot understand them , neither is it my fault that i do not : in sum , the man reasoned there was no religion at all in the kingdome , but all religion he knew of was , to do justly , and be mercifull . vnto which the gentleman replyed , the heathen they were just and merciful , and therein did as much as you . this sectarie re-joyned , for ought he knew , the heathens were saved as well as any now . a godly minister of the countie of middlesex told me ( april . ) that there was a great sectarie and a souldier , because he had perswaded a family that he was well acquainted with , and where the sectarie much resorted , to cast him off , and to have nothing to do with him ; this sectarie conceiving it to come from this minister , when this minister came downe one day to this house , this sectarie came to the house and enquired for him , to speak with him ▪ this minister fearing the devill might stir him up to do him some mischiefe , refused to speak with him , as having no businesse with him ; this souldier and sectarie sent him in word , if he would not come out to him , hee would come in to him : whereupon hee desired the master of the house hee might be safe in his house , and as hee came in love to him , so hee would defend him , and let him returne home in safetie ; whereupon the master of the house sent out a serva●t to him to be gone , for this minister had nothing to say to him ; and as the servant was going , this sectarie was already come in : whereupon the servant asked him , why hee came in without bidding ; hee replyed , to speak with master — ; upon that the servant caught him by the collar , and said hee should not ; the master hearing them bustle together , hee went out , and his wife followed to oppose him ; and in conclusion , having his knife before ready by his side , hee reached it to pare the dirt off his shooes , to shake it off against that house , because they would not receive him , as making himselfe an apostle : and when hee had done so , he departed . there is one master durance , a preacher at sandwich in kent , a bold conceited man , and an independent , who since the beginning of this parliament was a washing-ball-maker , or seller of washing-balls here in london , but now turned preacher ; and being never ordained minister , hath consecrated himselfe to be one of the priests of the high places : among many high affected straines of new light , and strange expressions , which the man uses in his sermons , prayers , to get himselfe a name by , viz. of a washing-ball-maker to become such a rare man , these are some ; hee prayed to the trinitie to take care or cure of these three kingdomes , god the father to take care of one , god the son of the second , and god the holy ghost of the third kingdome : he prayed also for jesus christ , that god would , &c. a godly minister in northamptonshire told mee ( april . ) that there was a sectarie in his parish , a yeoman , who hath said it to him and to many others , that now the time is coming , when wee shall all have and bee alike : ☞ i shall have as much estate as such a knight , naming a knight of great estate in that countie , one sir w. w. th● sectarie also holds there is no hell. there is a godly minister in essex , who related this storie to me ( april ) in the presence of a minister of the assembly , and hee who told it mee had it from the mans owne mouth , whom this minister knowes well to be an honest godly man : this man , viz. one master a. living at r. in essex , a godly religious man , and an old acquaintance of master s●idr . sympson , coming up to london , and meeting with m. sympson , among other discourse , asked him if hee might come to his church , and whether the sacrament of the lords supper would be administred the next lords day , and whether hee might come to it : master sympson answered yes , hee had the lords supper , and hee might come ; whereupon this master a. went , and after sermon stayed with the rest of the company to partake in the lords supper , and joyning with them , received the bread ; which when hee had received , there were some of the church-members began to take notice hee was none of their church , and there was a great stir and muttering about it , and they told him they admitted none but of their church-way : whereupon this religious man was not permitted to partake of the cup , but was glad to withdraw , the independents dealing with him ( though a godly man , and a visible saint , because hee was not one of their members ) just as the papists do with the people , allowing them the bread , but not the wine . when all was done , this master a. went to master sympson , and spake to him , saying ; sir , did not you tell mee i might come to the lords supper at your church ? master sympson replyed , i said you might come , but not that you might receive . vpon this businesse the honest man was much troubled , and for their administring the sacrament to him after the popish manner , they have lost a proselyte of him , this having quite turned him off from the independents . the same minister at the same time related it to mee for certaine , as a thing not only knowne to him , but to many in the countie of essex , that a compounded sectarie , an anabaptist , &c. whose dwelling is at castle-henningham , preached at chelmsford in a house where ( as a common fame goes ) there wine and women good store ; and as he was preaching to the sectaries , there came by the house a kind of a wild gentleman , who was speaking against the presbyterians , and this man was brought in to the meeting whilest the sectarie was preaching ; and as in the verie midst of their preaching there was wine and liquour , drinking to one another , so before they parted there was good store of it ; this wild gentleman for his part spending about foure shillings , who when hee was come away , meeting some gentlemen and others , commended the men for honest men , and praising their meetings , said , why should they not have the libertie of their consciences ? the sum of a sermon preached by a sectarie , and of some conferences with sectaries . on new-years day , ian. . . a surgeon belonging to the army preached at one goodman bolters of bere , a towne in the west , on colloss . . out of vers . . he observed , all the saints dutie is to believed and be thankfull , ( he enlarged ) where 's the humiliations , repentings for sinne which your godly ministers ( you say ) have taught you ? out of ver . . hee observed , the hand-writing of ordinances , the ten precepts faire written by the finger of god , altogether taken away . on ver . . hee observed , new moons , sabbaths , meats , drinks , empty things ; sabbaths not to be observed , shadowes , and since christs coming taken away : he said , we had deceitfull ministery , sacraments , ordinances , meats and drinks , though their learned godly ministers had told them , that when they had consecrated them with their sanctified garments on , they were holy , and were to be given only to those to whom they pleased , yet empty , and shadowes too . afterwards , being asked what he meant by these meats and drinks , whether the elements consecrated to bee signes and seales to us in the sacrament : he said , he knew no seale but the spirit ; and for those things , they were empty things , and of no effect . out of ver . , . that ( there being three things in baptisme , a death , buriall , and resurrection ) christ was baptism to us , and the outward sign needlesse . the same person in private , in the house of a reverend godly minister , master r. in conference asserted , that there is no sabbath to bee kept since christs fulfilling the law , since no command for it in the gospell . he being urged with places out of the old testament and fourth commandement : he and a captain , and one lievtenant i. affirmed , those belonged to the jews , not to us . . being urged in point of prayer for forgivnesse of sin with the lords prayer : the lievtenant said , that the lords prayer , when christ gave it to his disciples , was spirituall to them , but it is not so to us . . the same lievtenant being urged with davids practice of bewailing ●in , and craving pardon , answered , david was under a double covenant , of the law , and of grace ; we only under that of grace : and though a believer should commit as great sins as david , murther , adulterie , there was no need for him to repent , and that sin was no sin to him , but a failing . . the surgeon and the rest being told by some parties present , that they would believe that which their godly ministers had taught out of the word : he answered , he doubted whether yet the word had been taught or no. then the surgeon asking what the word was : being answered , the old and new testament ; he replied , he doubted whether those were the word or no. then being asked what was the word ; he answered out of iohn . . and told us , he knew no word but that . item , this surgeon and a quartermaster-generall to the regi●ent having conference with one thomas spere a papist , asked him , how long he had absented himselfe from the church of england ; it was answered twenty years : they commended him for it , and told him they had done so too , and were not themselves of that church . and hearing from him of some of his opinions , they told him by way of encouragement , ☞ he said well , and was able to say more for his way , then all the presbyterian priests in dorsetshire . lievtenant i. being asked what he thought of the directorie ; answered , he● thought of it as of the common-payer , and of that as of the masse . being like wise asked concerning the assembly of divines ; he answered , they were most part of them enemies to christ and his truth . that lievtenant i. and an ensign denyed all ecclesiasticall government . item , lievtenant i. said , hee fought not for the parliament , but for liberty of conscience , and not for reformation . item , he affirmed , that he thought daies of publike humiliation needlesse , and unlawfull , and would not observe them . item , concerning prayer ; that we must not pray morning and evening , but when the spirit pu●s ejaculations into us ; for that were to make prayer an idoll . this sermon , and these conferences are subscribed by the hands of godly persons , two witnesses , and i have them in my hand to produce , but forbeare the printing of their names , because i know not what prejudice may come to them by some souldiers that may go that way . there is one a. a shoomaker not far off tower-street , who speaking of the assembly , said , ☞ there were but seven in the assembly that stood for god , all the rest of them were for the divel : an honest godly man brought thi● f●ll●w before a person of quality , and in authority , for speaking these words ; and at first this man denyed it : whereupon , he offering to fetch two witn●sses to prove it , the man confessed it , and said , he had spoken rashly . the sectaries have within this two years last past , especially this last yeere since the victory at naseby , abused ( in the most insolent and unheard of manner , and that all kind of wayes ) all sorts and ranks of men even to the highest , both particular persons , and whole societies that have but any way appeared against them , or they think will not be for them , as the king , parliament , the kingdome of scotland , the city of london , the assembly , all the reformed churches , the city ministers , particular ministers , and other christians , and as in their printed booke , sermons , speecches , so by affronts offered ministers in churches , pulpits , and severall other wayes , and that in the highest unsufferable manner that ( considering all things together ) ever was in any age since the coming of christ : and for the proofe of this , a man might make a large book to set downe the pregnant undenyable instances and particulars in this kinde ; and a man would wonder what should be the mysterie of it , and no question many do ( though for my part , i doe not ) that this last yeare , since not only the assembly , but the honourable houses of parliament have voted the presbyteriall government , declared to the world they will settle it , made divers ordinances for it and about it , that ever since the presbyterial government , all the parts , acts , and friends of it have beene written , preached against and abused more then ever ; yea j●alousies , false reports , calumnies raised , nou●ished , fomented , and yet never any of the sectaries exemplarily punished , o● their libels and desperate pamphlets ever publikely censured ( as i can learn , ) or effectuall courses used to supp●esse them ; but let the men or the books be what they will , abuse whom they will , parliament , &c. so that they do but abuse the presb●terians , and the presbyterial government , and plead for the independents and liberty of conscience , all is well enough ; nay , not only so , but some such bookes are licensed , and some persons known to be most desperately opposite to the presbyterians , to the covenant , to our brethren of scotland , the assembly , to the godly orthodox ministers , the men in great request , walking boldly in westminster-hall , at the house of commons door daily , familiar with some parliament-men , preferred to places of trust , and honour , having favour in things wherein other men can find none ; yea , have been able to do those things for themselves , and such as they appeare for , which otherwise were never likely , or not so quickly to have been effected . and in things done by the sectaries against persons affected to the presbyteriall government ( though in the way and manner of doing them ) if presbyterians should do so , it were a great breach of priviledge of parliament , and an arraigning their ordinances ; yet in the sectaries 't is nothing , nor we never heare of anie such complaint or words made of them : for instance , how manie votes , orders , o●dinances of parliament have beene spoken against , writ against , acts done point-blank against the letter of them ? not humble petitions made to represent the state of things , and to desire so and so ; but downright railings and s●●ffes , or else taking cogniz●nce of things whilest before the houses , and in d●bate : as for example , the assembly who sits by ordinance of parliament , have they not been fearfully abused , scorned by those books of arraignment of persecution , martins eccho , & ● . and now lately by a ballad made of them , having a first and second part , wherein they are scoffed with the title of black-bird divines ? the name of the ballad against the assembly of divines is called , a prophecie of the swineherds destruction ▪ to the tune of the merry souldier , or the joviall tinker ; and two men pictured at the upper end of it , with the inscription of sir iohn presbyter and sir simon synod . this ballad c●lls the assembly swineherds , saith , ☞ these swine-herds they are sitting to build old babells tower : and in this ballad the directory made by the assembly , and establish●d by ordinance , is scoff●d at , and the assembly i● brought in , and jeered at for b●ing against anabaptists , brownists , independents : and they are in that ballad call'd b●●ls priests . the assemblies last petition to the parliament , whilest it was in debate before the houses , before they came to give their sense of it , * saltmarsh ( the annagram of whose name is to a tittle , m. al 's trash ) takes notice of it , prints a great part of it , prejudges and anticipates the determinations of the honourable house of commons , and uses the assembly verie coursely . there is a pamphlet called a letter of advice unto the ministers assembled at westminster , with severall quares recommended to their saddest considerations , wherein the assembly is not only abused , but threatened , that if they give advice to the parliament against a toleration of independents , they are so many in number , that the assembly shall be chastised as evill counsellours , disturbers of church and state , no lesse than great strafford , or little canterbury . in the case of paul best , whilst it is before the house of commons , and under debate , comes out a pamphlet censuring their proceedings against him , as fearing what the sentence may be ; in asserting the possibilitie of an heretikes repentance so long as hee lives , and such as do any wayes cause him to die in heresie , as much as in them lyes , do effectually damne him eternally : and consequently , that paul best , ( whatever his errour be at present ) as well as paul the apostle , once a blasphemer , may one day become a convert , if he be not untimely starved to death before-hand . and to give only one particular instance more : there is a * book lately come forth about the sixth of this moneth of may , called tender conscience religiously affected , fearfully abusing and descanting upon all the ordinances of parliament , in reference to the directorie , ordination of ministers , and church-government , leaving out none but the last ordinance about commissioners : wherein the parliament and assembly are usufferably reviled and railed at ; and particularly the parliament charged with speaking blasphemy , and being guiltie of many other crimes . and lastly , the sectaries are so violent , and insufferably insolent , that though they abuse persons or things , or do the strangest actions either against lawes or ordinances , if they be but questioned by any in authoritie for these things , in stead of confessing their offences , submitting , and carrying themselves peaceably and humbly , they will abuse and miscall authority to their faces , yea , set out printed books against them , reproaching and reviling them to the open world ; of which i might give many instances , as in the case of one hawes committed lately by some justices of peace , upon two witnesses testifying words spoken by him derogatory to the second and third persons in the trinity ; a book was printed , wherin they are reviled and clamoured against . so upon one larner's commitment , about a dangerous book entituled londons last warning , there is a book put forth aspersing the l. mayor of london , the committee of examination , and the right honourable the house of peeres . and lastly upon lievtenant-colonell lilburns commitment , many pamphlets were printed , speaking bitterly against the committee of examinations , and the honourable house of comons ; as englands birthright , severall printed letters , &c. the sectaries have lately put forth two pamphlets with a picture drawne and affixed to them , greatly abusing all the presbyterians : the first is called dictated thoughts upon the presbyterians late petitions to the parliament : the other is the book called , tender conscience religiously affected , propounding questions upon the ordinances of parliament . the maine of the picture is an heart pictured , over which is written , tender conscience religiously affected , with some verses over that : and under the heart , with daggers at it , stands the pope , the prelate , and the presbyter in the midst of them two , with a book in his hand , where directorie is written , antichristian presbyter written by him , and the crown under his foot , he treading upon it , and a dagger in his hand , reaching at the heart of tender conscience , but a chaine with a weight hanging at his arm , whereby he is hindred and falls somwhat short of pricking tender conscience with his dagger . now i could write a book in giving observations , and making a confutation of this picture , and these mottoes , but i must studie brevitie , i will onely hint a few things . . that i have been informed for certain , and it was spoken of by some merchants on the exchange , that in holland the picture of an independent is drawn , and set out publikely , and he is pictured thus , with god written in his mouth , the devill written just upon his heart , and the world written and pictured as he holding it in his armes . . it may be this picture of a presbyterian will cause the picture of an independent to be drawne here in london , set out with mottoes , as also what he hath under his feet , &c. and if it prove so , 't is but just and the independents may thank themselves . . for the picture it selfe of a tender conscience , which they make the presbyterian lifting up a dagger to stab ; i am confident the presbyterians are as truly tender-conscienced men as any in england , yea far above the sectaries ; and for the sectaries ( take them generally ) they are far from being tender-conscienced men , as i shall shew at large in my treatise against toleration , under that head of answering that objection , that tender consciences must be ●orn with ; where i shall prove by many instances they are men of large consciences , and have consciences , like to ostrich stomachs , that can digest iron , that can digest a generall toleration of all religions , can beare with them that are evill , or any thing that is wicked , so it will promote the catholike cause ; and in truth , in stead of being a truly consciencious people , and going upon religious principles , they are a meere politike faction , driving on strange designes , and having ends of their own . . whereas they place the presbyter in the midst of the pope and prelat , how might they more truly have placed an independent and other sectaries , the independents shaking hands , and complying more with papists and prelats than prebyterians , as i could prove by many instances of familiar passages and speeches that have passed between some sectaries and papists and prelats , and some speeches again of papists and prelats of the independents , some wherof the reader may find in this book , pag. , . . that of the presbyterian trampling the crown under his feet , is a most wicked lye , and confuted in the sight of the sun , by the experience of thes● times ; for who stand more for the crowne , the kings person and honour , his just greatnesse , and his posteritie after him , than the presbyterian partie ; and who are more against monarchy , the kings person and honour , than the independent partie ? a sectarie indeed may well be pictured with the crowne under both his feet , trampling it , and breaking it all to peeces , and together with the crowne trampling the church , ministerie , and the kingdome of scotland under their feet ; and for proofe of sectaries treading the crowne under their feet , witnesse londons last warning , commended , sold , dispersed up and down by sectaries , witnesse walwyns an arch-sectaries speeches , with othea passages of some of them , as giving over praying for the king above this yeare , laughing at them who pray for him , as * one of them praying publikely in the church , that the king might be brought in chains to the parliament , as speaking against his coming in or being received in but under the notion of a delinquent , and that he deserved to die if any man did , with such like speeches . . that of the presbyter endevouring to destroy the ●●nder conscience religiously affected , only hindred by a great clog hanging upon him , is a wicked scandall ; for the tendernesse , forbearance , love , indulgence of the presbyterians , when they were in their highest power , and the independents weak and low , is known to all this kingdome ; and had they been such men as the independent painter would make them , the sectaries had never growne to this boldnesse to make such a picture , nor these kingdoms so troubled with them as now they are ; but the truth of it is , a sectarie may well be painted with a dagger thus running at the heart of the presbyterians tender consciences religiously affected , and had they not clogs upon their arms , we should find it so by lamentable experience ; they have made violent attempts against presbyterians , and they have given out many threatning words ; and certainly designed and comforted themselves , that ere long they should be able to crush the presbyterians ; for proofe whereof , besides instances already given in this book , pag. . i shall add two or three at present : one smart a great sectarie , upon the fifth or sixth of may last , speaking against the presbyterian ministers , and calling them priests , spake these words ; that we hope to have , or shall have shortly the * sequestrations of the presbyterians , as well as formerly of malignants ; unto whom one of the company replyed , that i suppose you will get a good office or place then , when the pr●●●●terians estates shall come to be sequestred . another sectarie , a bodies-seller in london ( whose name i conceale , upon the entreatie of him who related it ) speaking of the ministers of sion colledge , said these words ; many have gone to tyburn , who have lesse deserved hanging than those of sion colledge ; and hee further spoke these words , that the ministers were the cause of all our troubles & stirs . this relation was given me under the hand of one who was an ear-witnesse , and delivered to me in the presence of two sufficient persons . a third man , who is for the independents , and that way , came to a person of qualitie in the citie of london , and taken notice of for a man of great estate , and wished him , out of his respect to him , to take heed how he ingaged or shewed himselfe for the presbyterians , and against the independents , for there was no way for him to keep his estate , or to be secure , unlesse he were of that side , with other words to that purpose . here followes a copie of some letters , with a narration of some more remarkable passages concerning the sectaries . a copie of a letter written to me from a godly and learned minister living at yarmouth . vvorthy sir , by * your letter coming to my hand , i take notice of an information handed to you , wherein i wish there were not so much truth . for your better security , i have procured the examinations out of the office , and have transcribed one of them , which here i send you inclosed . at our late sessions , this cause was heard , our recorder professed , that had he had power , hee had a great minde to hang the man for his blasphemies ; but in conclusion , hee was bound over to the next sessions : touching the person of this blasphemous wretch , one iohn boggis , hee was an apprentice to an apothecary in london , and came downe hither with ( your good friend ) captaine hobson , as his chyrurgion . soone after his coming into these parts hee turned preacher ; and so in a little time seducing , and being seduced , hee came from antinomianisme and anabaptisme , to this desperate height of atheisme . your great rabbi oats told mee before his face , that m. boggis might be his master , notwithstanding his youth ; and so highly extolled him , as if hee had beene adam hamagnalah . one passage more i shall acquaint you with . about a yeer since or somewhat more , this boggis with oats , ( then of norwich ) and one lockier a ring-leader of the anabaptists in this town came to my house , desiring some discourse with me for their pretended satisfaction . providence so ordered it , that m. w. my fellow minister , and one other , were with me at the present . thus three to three we fell into debate ( amongst other matters ) about the power of the magistrate in inflicting capital punishments , and taking away of life . hereupon oats ( to whom the rest agreed ) peremptorily affirmed , and stood to maintaine , that there was no such power in any christian magistrate over anie member of a church , unlesse first he was cast out of the church , and so delivered to the secular power ; no , whatever his offence was , though murther or treason . his argument was , that all church-members were the temple of god , and who so destroyeth the temple of god , him shall god destroy . being pressed with the authority of that text , he that sheddeth mans blood , by man shall his blood be shed , hee and the rest cryed out , what had they to do with moses ? they were christs disciples , not moses disciples . being minded of the antiquity of this law before moses his time , they replyed , it was all one being part of the old testament . withall oats added , that that law was fulfilled ; demanding of him how , he answered , in and by christ in as much ( said hee ) as christ shed his blood , my blood is shed already ; for ( saith he ) christs blood is my blood , and my blood is christs blood . at the same time boggis being pressed by my selfe in some particulars , still his reply was , i have the spirit . my selfe impatient of his arrogant boasting , told him . that certainly if he had that spirit he pretended to , hee would not so boast of it : whereunto ( clapping his hand upon his brest ) he replyed , i thank god i have enough of the spirit . hereupon i having enough of him , told him , that the doores were open for him , and so parted with him . the lord direct , and assist you in all your undertakings , and make your endeavours successefull . with my prayers , and hearty salutations , i rest your assured friend , and brother in the lord. yarmouth , may . a copie of the deposition made against one john boggis , for horrid and unheard of blasphemy . great yarmouth ian. . . this informer saith upon his oath , that some few dayes since , one iohn boggis came to the house of this informers master about dinner time , and being requested to stay at dinner there , he sate down at the table , and being also requested by his said masters wife to give thanks , hee asked to whom hee should give thanks , whether to the butcher or to the bull , or to the cow , ( there being then a shoulder of rosted veale upon the table . ) and the said informers masters wife , saying , that thanks should bee given to god ; the said boggis replyed , and said , where is your god , in heaven , or in earth , aloft or below , or doth hee sit in the clouds , or where doth hee sit with his — . and further this informer saith , that at another time the said informers masters wife having speech with the said boggis about the church , and concerning the bible , the said boggis wished , he had not knowne so much of the bible , which hee said , was but only paper . the former part of this information ( to and further , &c. ) is also attested upon oath in the same words by the said informers master wife . a true copy of a letter sent from dover , to a worthy member of the reverend assembly , and subscribed by five hands of persons of worth , ministers and others . worthy sir , ovr true respects of you prefixed : we entreat your favour to acquaint us what you think will be the result at last about the independents ; if they must be tolerated , it is then in vaine for us to strive against it by any humane helps , and must expect to live in all confusion and disorder , except it be in our families , and there we shall hardly avoid it , for there are some that creep into houses . we desire you to take notice , that for three yeeres last past there hath been some differences about that way in dover ; but of late they are faln into a congregationall-church , have made members , and ordained a pastour one . mr. davis of london , who will settle here with them : hereupon they are presently so high flowne , that they will have our publike meeting place commonly called the church to preach a weekly lecture , though we have an order from the committee of parliament , that there shall bee none without the consent of both the ministers in dover , and have acquainthem with it ; yet some have threatned , if the key be kept away , they will break open the doores ; and since m. davies journey to london , the members of his church meeting everie lords day twice , and once in the weeke , mr. mascall ( a man employed by the state to bee a perfector of the customes ) undertakes to feed the flock , expounds the scriptures , and with much vehemencie cries out to the people expressing himselfe thus against the present ministerie : your priests , your damned priests , your cursed priests , with their fooles coat . your levites , who if they get an ordinance of parliament , will thunder it out , but they let alone the ordinances of christ , and perswades the people of the evill that synods and learned men have done to the church , and therefore presses them to the uselessenesse of humane learning , and at other times in private meetings , perswades people , that they will fall into most miserable slaverie , if they have a presbytery ; and saith , that hee shall stand and laugh at them , when they are under their burthens . for our parts , if the state will suffer themselves to bee so vilified in what they have by the best advice proposed , and will have us trodden under foot for following christ , and obeying them , and will have us take covenants , and suffer as many as will to violate them , wee shall then thinke that wee are fallen into worse times then ever wee yet saw . wee desire you to counsell us , and to improve your power in the assembly , and with the parliament what you may to stop these violent proceedings here , that we may enjoy our priviledges , especially the peace of our consciences and countrey , we rest your loving friends . dover , april . . this letter is given into the hands of a peer of this kingdom . the copie of a letter written from a learned and godly divine from beyond the seas , to a speciall friend of his here in london , and translated by him out of dutch into english. vve do earnestly long for some ordinances from england , for the suppressing of the high growing sects , heresies , and schismes , which get the upperhand : we are afflicted in our verie souls , that there is such a depth of distractions and errors , such liberty for schisme , blasphemie , and ungodly tenents , both at london , and in the whole kingdome . o blessed holy holland , righteous amsterdam , heretofore accounted the sink of errours and heresies , but now justified by london . with us are punished with banishment , or piercing through the tong with a hot iron , those that but slanderously speak of the virgin mary : here we burne the books of the socinians errours , and they may not with knowledge be sold in these parts : here indeed every one is left to enjoy the freedome of his conscience in his own family , but to keep conventicles and meetings of divers families together , amsterdam it selfe will not suffer , except in anabaptists , lutherans , and remonstrants . at london is taught blasphemy against christ , god , his word , worship , and sacraments , by enthusiasts , antinomians , libertines , and seekers : there the socinian tricks are new moulded , there all sects and hereticks may keep their separated , publike and secret conventicles . whence is it that you are so suddenly led away unto another gospell ? is there no balme in gilead , that the wounds of the daughter of sion are not healed ; are the prayers of the saints , and the labours of the upright , all in vain ? gods judgements hang over that kingdom , which feeds and fosters such sins . a passage extracted out of a letter lately sent from a godly minister in colchester , to a minister in london . the last sabbath day we had one clarkson a seeker that preached at butolph church , the same man i believe that m. edwards mentions in his book : his sermon tended to the vilifying of the scriptures , all ordinances , duties , ministers , church , state : hee vilified the scriptures and would not have the people live upon white and black , and that they of themselves were not able to reveal god , of which i shall give m. e. a full account the next week . an extract of a letter written from a minister in new-england to a member of the assembly of divines . discipline , or church government is now the great businesse of the christian world , god grant we forget not the doctrine of repentance from dead works , and faith in the lord jesus : i long much to see , or heare , what is done in england about this matter . i shall not fall into particulars , as i might do , could we speake mouth to mouth . i am no independent , neither are manie others , who say , communi presbyterorum consilio ecclesiae ab initio regebantur ; nor am i of a democraticall spirit : much have i seene in my almost eleven yeares abode in this wildernesse ; and i wish such as maintain an independen democracie , had seene and found as much experimentally . a house like to be well governed , where all are masters ; but no more of this . for my self , god hath been here with me , and done me much good , learning me somthing of himselfe , of my selfe , and of men . n. e. is not heaven , and here we are men still . decem. . . to his loving brother , m. thomas edwards . sir , that book which discovereth our generall gangraena , containeth truth , which will procure you many enemies , it s the fate of truth : but to this end ( saith our lord iohn . . ) was i born , and for this cause came i into the world , that i should beare witnesse to the truth ; and so for this cause are christians begotten againe by the word of truth : everie one that is of the truth should do so , espcially such as are his ministers . revelasse will be superasse : i le joyn with one of your adversaries in that alleadged text. but they shall proced no farther ; for their folly shall be made manifest to all men , as theirs also was , tim. . i wait for its accomplishment . you , yea we all must look to suffer for plaine dealing , especially now when as truth lieth in the streets and is trampled on by dirty feet ; when as there are so many adversaries unto it , and such an independent combination against it : the great objection against you is , you are too too vehement in your opposition ; which when i heard , i remembred i had read in luther de servo arbitrio , the same objected to him , by old erasmus . the answer of luther unto it , mee thinkes may well bee ours , yours , and yeeld us much comfort and encouragement . quod antem , vehementius , egerim , agnosco culpam si culpa est , imo testimonium hoc mihi in mundo reddi in causa des mirificè gaudeo : atque utinam & ipse deus id testimonii in novissimo die confirmaret quis tum beatior luthero , qui tanto sui saculi testimonio commendatur , quod veritatis causam non segniter nec fraudulenter sed vehementer satis , vel petiùs nimio egerit ? tum illud ieremae soeliciter evaserim , maledictus qui facit opus dei negligenter . so luther ; and so may you in my judgment . as for cretensis ( so one of your adversaries stileth his book ) i finde him still a confident man , his challenge of all the presbyterians one after another , assembled or not assembled in england , scotland , france , and ireland , in that question of the imputation of faith in a proper sense , &c. sheweth so much , and also that , that he may do it as well as you did antapol . p. . to whom you may say from me , he cannot so well do it as you , because that as yet we see none hath accepted your challenge , whereas the strength of him is tried ( in what he did against m. walker , and his other two treatises of that subject ) and is found weaknesse ; so that untill he vindicate himselfe , we have but the words militis gloriosi , the vent of spleen against presbyterians and the assembly , say , i could tell him presbyterians and independents assembled , have weighed that controversie , and found his opposition therein too too light . tell him that ( though the servant is not greater then his master , nor the authority of the clark equall to that of the iustice of peace ; and that when m. gataker speaketh , m. robrough may hold his peace , as he speaketh , pag. . cret . ) m. robrough may say so much unto him in behalfe of some of those he thus challengeth , and tell him that he do no more with challenges , trouble those masters , being in serious employments . it sufficeth a servant hath routed his forces , and is in readinesse ( with gods helpe ) if m. iohn goodwin can but recruit , to meet him in that controversie in whatsoever field . blessed be god , he is much more inabled and imboldened to that by his attendance ; so farre is he from being ashamed of that which he objecteth as a jeer : he is strong at that ( as in his recipe to m. walker ▪ and that whole book ) the blood that runneth in that vein ( as i have heard ) cost him nought , he received it by tradition , he is not as yet redeemed from it ; will him as a grave and learned divine to answer m. robroughs animadversions , and after that propose his vaine-glorious challenge unto presbyterians : they and independents will surely answer him , if between him and me there be indeed found on my part impar congressus . that charge of yours ( gang. p. . that faith in a proper sense , is imputed to justification , and not christs righteousnesse ) is owned ( i see ) still by him . onely he saith , that you falsly and forgingly represent the opinion , because you father on it that mungrell expression ( as he calleth it ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 credere , an expression ad invidiam comparata it my be said its usually so expressed by such as handle that controversie . mr. wootton abhorred it not . fidem autem cùm dicimus ipsum credere , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 significamus , de reconcil par . . l. . c. . p. . and againe , p. . for what hee mentioneth else to that further , he may do well to take notice that he is examined , as in all that hee hath written , the other charge ( pag. . about quoting bucer and calvin against their judgement ) in my opinion it is very just . let mr. walkers booke and mine be but consulted , it is made evident in theirs , and others testimonies quoted by him : when as bucer saith , faith is imputed to righteousnesse , and so calvin , they take it not in a proper sense but figurative , or relative to the object , which sibrandus against bertius , sheweth to bee the judgement of all protestant divines , and challengeth him to shew one man , or one place to the contrarie . for bucer , master wotton , sheweth his opinion in these words , quia hac fide apprehendimus justitiam perfectam christi ; ideo apostolus dixit , credenti in cum qui justificat impium , fidem ejus reputari in justitiam : fidem , scil . apprehendentem justitiam christi , id est , ipsam christi justitiam : wo●t . de reconcil . part . . lib. . cap. . pag. . and therefore saith of bucer , quem ego de imputatione opinionis , authorem fuisse mihi persuadeo . he might have read it cited in mine animadvers . part . . pag. . and as for m. calvin , the verie places whence he quoteh him expresse so much . let him peruse what is extracted from him in mine animadversions , pag. , , , & p. , . as for that opinion of calvins , that iustification consisteth in remission of sins , tell him hee needed not to call in witnesses , it is confest : the question is about the word onely ; neither is that word denyed to bee in calvin : but the qustion is , whether onely excludeth in his sense imputation of christs righteousnesse ( the tenet of protestants ; ) or that of inherent righteousnesse ( the doctrine of papists : ) i deny the former , and assert onely the later against the papists ; and i appeale to his witnesses , let them give their verdict . yet tell him , that in mine animadversions , in answer to this very head , he may read it determined by many witnesses against him ; by bellarmine , his adversarie , an accuser of calvin ( as he is for this , ) by his own witnesse , pareus , by d. downham , d. davenant and polanus , though he will not see it : part . . pag. , , , . yes , when as in his book he mentioneth these two witnesses ( as he here doth ) he may finde them answered out of the same authours , where mr. gatakers judgement may bee also seene of that thing , whether justification consists in remission of sinnes . surely , had hee thought of these answers given him against his opinions for mine , that they are to bee seene in the world , hee would never have made so loud a challenge , neither yet have spent time in repetition of these testimonies ; for the determining of which between us , i appeal to all the world , and am ready ( when-ever he pleaseth ) to contend for this with him , or any part of the controversie , in writing , or vivâ voce . sir , i thought good to write so much to you in defence of truth , and somwhat in reference to my despised selfe : it is now yours , do with it as your selfe shall please . the lord make us valiant for truth ; for this i know , i have abettors enough , such as himselfe doth otherwise highly honour . but service calleth for mine hand elswhere , which i must obey : and therefore with prayer to god for his blessing on you , and all your labours in his cause , he taketh leave of you for this time , who is your loving friend and brother in every cause of christ , henry robrough . april . . a copie of a letter lately written to me from a godly minister in the west of england . worthy sir , whom ( though unknown to me by sight ) i love and honour for your love to truth , and for your zeale against the spreading infectious errours of these times , wherein we once hoped for better things . i wrote to master f. of some discoveries that were made to me by some reclaimed from anabaptisme , concerning the workings of satan to and in that way , being much affected with the relations they first gave me by word of mouth : i desired them to commit their experiences to paper while the remembrance of them was fresh with them , that they might be able hereafter as well as at present , to tell what the lord had done for their soules , in breaking such a dangerous snare as satan with so much art and subtilty had laid for them : this upon perswasion they did , and at last gave me in about two sheets of paper close written , wherein they discover not only how the snare was laid for them , and how they were first caught and intangled with a liking of the novelty of anabaptisme , but being caught , how they were carried on to it with the strongest violence and impulse of spirit that is imaginable : they also discover the sad effects and influence which that way had upon their spirits while they lay but under a liking and good opinion of it , and how it pleased the lord to rescue and bring them off , before they were actually ingaged , and duckt into that seduced society . sir , all these things were so fully and largely expressed in the manuscrip● i had from them ▪ that others as well as my selfe held them very fit to be published for the publike good ; and supposing they should be , i was preparing some considerations upon the passages to come forth with them . since their coming of the anabaptists , they have found their spirits in a much better frame then before , and out of pitie to others ingaged in that way , have endeavoured to reclaime them . and now sir , for my own part i must needs say , it is much that i have suffered from opinionists of all sorts in these times , and meerly because i could not be false to my covenant ( nor i trust never shall ) by a sinfull silence , when heresie and schisme do lift up themselves against truth and unity . i praise the lord this happinesse i have , though the unkind dealing of these men hath somtimes occasioned much griefe of heart , and weaknesse of body to me , yet they have not prevailed in the least wise to weaken my resolutions in contending for the truth ; yea the more the truth is opposed , the more earnestly i hope i shall contend for it , though it be to the utter exhausting of that small strength of body which i have : i cannot sacrifice my selfe in a better way . i know it is not necessary that i should live , but necessary it is , that truth should live and be maintained to the utmost of our power . me thought it was somwhat harsh to me at first ( till god accustomed me to the yoke ) to suffer frowns , reproaches , imprecations , and all manner of hard speeches for the discharging of my conscience , and that from those whose professed principle it is that all should have the liberty of their consciences : it seems they would take liberty , but will not give it . if my conscience bids me to oppose some of their tenets and practices , and i can have no peace without so doing , how can they in reason deny me this liberty by their own principle ? ☜ surely it would be a sad day to all orthodox christians if they should be brought to stand to the mercy the sectaries liberty . some of them have partly well used their liberty against me in speaking , writing , printing against me , in the most scurrilous , rancorous , injurious manner that could be , and onely for preaching that , which if i had not , my conscience i feare would have preached against me while i had lived , for holding the truth in unrighteousnesse . sir , i will not hold you with particulars , this place hath been a troublesome place to me , for which i know whom i have to thank . i wish it may be quieter to the next minister that succeeds me , for god is pleased by a cleare providence to open me a way to some other place . sir , being lately at dorchester , the town i heard was somewhat disturbed the week before by a wandring sectary , who had gathered a company about him , and preached in the shire hall ( as i think they call it ▪ ) chusing that of the apostle for his text , but we have the mind 〈◊〉 christ. afterwards , through too much pride , and too little wit , the poor fellow was so ill advised as to challenge m. ben to a publike dispute imp●●r congressus achihi . offering to make good the lawfulnesse of private mens preaching , which challenge was accepted , but how the opinionist was foyled by that worthy minister ( fitter to grapple with that punies instructors ) was easily perceived by all understanding hearers . the godly people of those parts have been so well catechized and grounded heretofore , that the opinionists complain they can make no work with them . certainly the good old english puritan ( which mr. geere doth so well characterize ) is the novellists greatest enemy , or rather the novellist his . ☞ alas , how sad is the destiny of orthodox christians , that no times will favour them ? we have not yet lost the sense of what we suffered heretofore by those wicked prelats , whom god hath therefore cast out as an abominable branch ; and surely if all the orthodox in the land should bring in their severall complaints of what they have suffered since by turbulent opinionists , it would fill the world with wonder , and the reformed churches abroad , who cannot but sympathize with us , with much heavinesse of spirit in our behalfe . heretofore it was counted a crime to preach against profanenesse , as sporting on the lords day , and the like ; and now as great a crime to preach against heresies . only let me acquaint you with one thing i have observed , this veine of persecution for the most parts runs along in the same persons ; they who most countenanced profanenesse and superstition heretofore against orthodox ministers , are the same men who under a forme of godlinesse , without the power , do now countenance heresie and schisme against it ; but sir , let nothing discourage . it it given to us , not only to beleeve , but to suffer ; but hee that shall come will come , and will not tarrie : and in the mean while it is enough for us that christ reigns . may . . there is a young man who lives in london , and not far off the exchange , who went not long since to lams meeting-place , to see and hear what they did there ; and when he was come , found many of them reasoning and conferring about strange opinions : and among the rest , there was one sectarie who maintained and affirmed , ☞ that he was jesus christ. at which this young man was so offended and troubled in his spirit , that hee ( upon the place , and to his face ) spake much against him for his blasphemy : this fellow still maintained it stiffely , and told this young man hee would powre out his judgements on him , and damne him for opposing and speaking thus against him . this young man was so affected with it , that when hee came home , he told it his father and other friends : and being asked by some , whether he thought the man was in his wits or no , this young man replyed , yes sure , for he spake sensibly , and to the things that were spoken of , though in this blasphemous abominable way . many sectaries have distrubed godly conscientious ministers in the pulpits , standing up in the verie face of the congregation , and speaking to them , giving them the lye , charging them with false doctrine , calling them antichristian ministers , and such like : of some of these i have given instances in my late book , pag. , , . and to add a few more , mr. andrews of wellingborough had the lye given him whilst hee was preaching ; and many ministers have been put by preaching , and kept out of their own pulpits by force of arms , captains and troopers coming up into the ministers pulpits with their swords by their sides , and against the mind of ministers and people : thus paul hobson hath done in northampton-shire , buckingham-shire ; and thus at ravensden in bedford-shire a souldier went up against the mind of the minister ; and here in london , the face of the kingdome , at christ-church there have been many affronts offered , as jeering and scoffing in the midst of the sermons , speaking loud against things delivered , to the disturbance of those who have sate neer : and now lately at christ-church , on tuesday the . of april , just upon concluding my sermon , and going to my last prayer , up stands one colonell washington of hartford-shire , ( so his name and place is related to be ) and spake openly against what i had preached , that i had not rightly given the sense of that parable of the tares , and that i was a false prophet , or beware of false prophets . now if the sectaries will do thus to the presbyterians whilst they are in their minoritie , and underlings , what will they do when they come to be in their kingdome , to be encreased in number and power above the presbyterians ? but now on the other hand , let independents and sectaries give any one instance that the presbyterians , when they have come to hear them preach , ( though they have preached their erroneous opinions , and for libertie of conscience , and against presbyterians , and all this in the presbyterians pulpits and churches ) that ever the presbyterians have stood up and made disturbance in the publike assemblies , or carried themselves uncivilly and scoffingly in sermon time towards them . there is one gorton , who was a great sectarie in new-england , holding many desperate opinions there ; a copie of which , given by mr. williams of new-england ( that writ the book called the bloudy tenet ) unto a reverend minister now at london , i have seen and perused . now this gorton with others being banished out of the patent of the bay , and when they were gone , holding and venting strange and horrid opinions , whereby they highly dishonoured god , and did hurt and mischiefe to some of the people in the patent , and under the new-england government ; the governour and magistrates sent a company by force of arms ( though they were in a place , as it is thought , out of their plantation and patent ) to bring them to boston ; who accordingly , being too strong for gorton & his company , brought them to boston : and when the governours had them in their hands the court sate upon them what to doe with them ; and there were some motions and consultations ( as i and other ministers have been informed by some that are come from new-england ) about putting them to death , or what other punishments to be infl●cted on them for their blasphemous opinions . but how gorton escaped , whether because the place they fetched him and the rest from was not in their patent , or what other reason , i know not ; onely this i am assured of from divers hands , that gorton is here in london , and hath been for the space of some months ; and i am told also , that he vents his opinions , and exercises in some of the meetings of the sectaries , as that he hath exercised lately at lams church , and is verie great at one sister stags , excercising there too somtimes . there is one iohn durance an independent , ( whom i mentioned a little before ) who preaches a lecture on the week day at sandwich in kent , and hath a lecture at canterbury too , and would have had a lecture also at dover for the farther spreading of independency : but by the godly ministers of dover opposing it , and writing up to london against him , such meanes were used , as he was put by , and kept from coming thither : now among many other of his pranks , the reader may take notice of these ; he hath at sandwich in the church publikely prayed to god two or three severall times , that the king might be brought up in chains to the parliament : upon which prayer , one or two of sandwich went to m. durance , to know what his meaning was in that prayer : upon putting the question , m. symonds , an independent minister in the same towne , and his great friend ( but more politick ) being with him , answered , m. durance meaning was that the king might bee brought up in chaines of gold : whereupon m. durance replyed , that was none of his meaning ; but he meant , he might be brought in chains of iron . in a sermon one time this durance told the people hee was sorrie he had spent so much time , or lost so much time in reading or turning over the fathers : and yet he said he honoured the fathers as much as anie man. this man after his preaching at canterburie , hath the use of a great roome neare the cathedrall , where manie resort to him ; and he takes occasion to build them up in independency . not long since m. durance , on his lecture-day , just before the last day of publike thanksgiving in the countrey , preaching in one of the churches in sandwich , told the people he would finish the text he was then preaching upon on the thanksgiving day , and that in the afternoone , in a private house : whereupon , when he had done , m. sherwood a godly minister in whose church he preached , turned himselfe to the congregation , saying , mr. durance , you shall not need to do so , you shall have the libertie of my pulpit , i here offer it you ; and if you may have libertie of the publike church , i hope you will not go into corners . vvhereunto master durance publikely replyed , hee would not preach in the church , but was resolved of his way ; and accordingly in the afternoon , when the people went to the publike exercises to church , mr. durance went to a private house , and two or three hundred people after him , to heare him preach in private . i have many other remarkable stories and passages of the sectaries , proved by witnesses , by letters under their hands , and the notorietie of the things themselves , of their horrible uncleannesses , forsaking their husbands and wives , fearfull defraudings , and seeking by desperate wayes to cozen and deceive ; as also of their strange conceits : that there is a prophet arisen , who is shut up for a time , but at the end of this summer is to come forth with power to preach the generall restauration of all things ; which prophet hath given a roll forth already into some hands , in which roll many things are written , and whoever hath that roll , hath the spirit of prophecie : he hath appointed some to be publishers and prophets , and to go to jerusalem to build it up , where abraham , isaac , and iacob shall meet them from heaven ; and these persons thus sent unto jerusalem , are assured they shall never dye , with many other of this kind . but i will reserve these to make another book of , and come to give the reader some corallaries drawn from the whole matter . certain corallaries and consectaries drawn from the errours , heresies , blasphemies , practices , and stories of the sectaries laid down in this present book . corall . i. hence then from all these errours , heresies , blasphemies , practices , &c. laid downe both in the first and second part of gangraena , we may see how far the sectaries of our times have proceeded , and how high they have risen : in a word , to summe up in one page what more at large is expressed in many sheets , the sectaries are gone verie farre , both in damnable doctrines and wicked practices , in holding principles and positions destructive to church and state , against all government , both civill as well as ecclesiasticall , and that not only for the matter , but in the 〈◊〉 and way of propagation and 〈◊〉 of them . they have questioned and denyed all the articles of faith , and have justified and pleaded for all kind of errours and abominations : they have denyed the scriptures , trinitie , the god-head of the son , and holy ghost , justification by christ , the gospel , law , holy duties , church , ministerie , sacraments and all ordinances : they hold there are no devils , no sin , no hell , no heaven , no resurrection , no immortalitie of the soule : and together with these , they are against all kingly government , the king ▪ lords , the house of commons , as to have any thing to do in matters of religion , or in civill matters any longer than the people who chose them think fit , and to be chosen yeerly , or of●ner , according as they carrie themselves ; yea , against all kind of civill government and magistraticall power whatsoever , as appeares by denying the power of imposition of taxes and assessments , in denying the power of magistrates over church-members in cases of murther , treason , &c. and as they have denyed all these , so on the contrarie they have maintained and pleaded for all kind of blasphemous and hereticall opinions , and loose ungodly practices ; yea , they have publikely in print justified there should be an open toleration for all these : and if any man should so far degenerate , as to beleeve there is no a god ; nay , come to bl●spheme god and the scriptures , yet hee should not be troubled nor molested , but enjoy the libertie of his conscience : and they have not only pleaded thus , but some of them have actually blasphemed god , christ , the spirit , the scriptures , ministers , sacraments , and all holy ordinances ; besides committing of horrible uncleannesses , forsaking of husbands and wives as antichristian , being guiltie of thefts , defraudings , &c. being partakers also of that horrid rebellion of ireland , in justifying the rebels , that they did no more than what wee would have done our selves , &c. all these with many others , as the pleading for stage-playes to be set up againe , some or other of the sectaries have been guiltie of : and unto all these have added this moreover , to canonize and cry up for saints , faithfull servants of god , &c. antiscripturists , antitrinitarians , arrians , perfectists , yea , blasphemers and atheist , ●o they be but for independencie , and against presbyterie : and particularly , how is paul b●st , that fearfull blasphemer , now he is in question by the house of commons , pleaded for by many sectaries of our times , and bitter speeches spoken against the house of commons for medling with him ? yea , and in * print too hee is pleaded for , and compared in a sort with paul the apostle . certainly , neither we , nor our fathers before us ever heard or saw such evils of blasphemie , heresie , &c. in this kingdome , as wee have done within these two or three last yeeres : the worst of the bishops and their chaplains , when they were at worst , were saints in comparison of many of the sectaries of our times , and would have abhorred ( as bad as they were ) such opinions and practices which some of the sectaries magnifie , cry up , and pretend to do by vertue of new light , the spirit , and as a matter of great perfection , as for instance ; a mans or womans forsaking their owne husbands and wives , and taking others at their pleasure , out of pretence of casting off antichristian yokes , the pleading for a general toleration of all religions , yea blasphemies , & denying a deitie , out of pretence of libertie of conscience . but what speak i of the bishops and their chaplains ? i am perswaded all the stories and relations of the anabaptists and schwenkfeldians in luthers time , of the * popes and papists blasphemies , of many heathens and scoffers of the scriptures & christian religion , as galen , porphirius , lucian , iulian the apostate , &c. do fall short of the blasphemies & waies of our sectaries : which of all these ever so blasphemed as boggis ? or what storie is there since the creation of the world that mentions a more horrid & wicked blasphemy than that of boggis , a great sectarie , pag. , , ? or where is there a blasphemy to be found beyond that spoken of in pag. of this book ? in a word , to conclude this first corollatie , the sectaries of our times have in many respects ( as in regard of breach of covenant , ingratitude , falsnesse , &c. ) gone beyond the sectaries of other ages and kingdomes , and done worse than their fathers , justifying them in all their abominations which they committed ; and have vented and spread so many poysonous and dangerous principles and positions , as are enough to corrupt and infect all the christian world , if the lord in mercie do not prevent it . corall . ii. hence then from all that i have laid down of the sectaries of our times , of their errours , heresies , blasphemies , strange practices , and their wayes of managing them , we may learne what is like to become of them and their way , and what their end will be ; namely , confusion , desolation , and being brought to nought suddenly , as in a moment , and if ever god spake by me , i am confident he will curse this faction of sectaries in england , and cast them out as an abominable branch : me thinks i see their day a coming and drawing neere ; heretikes and schismatikes do not use to be long-lived : no heresie ( as luther speaks ) uses to overcome at the last . what is become of the arrians , donatists , novatians , pelagians , & c ? though they were like a mightie floud , over-running and drowning all for a time , yet like a floud they were quickly dried up ; and so will the sects now : and we may expect it so much the sooner , because the visible symptomes and fore-runners of destruction are upon them . and therefore i shall now toll the great bell for the sectaries , the anabaptists , antinomians , independents , seekers , &c. and hope shortly to ring it out , and to preach their funerall sermon , or rather keep a day of publike thanksgiving and rejoycing , for the bringing downe of the sectaries , and the breaking up of their conventicles , as well as for the downfall of the popish and prelaticall partie . and that they shall shortly fall and be dried up as a floud ; and though they have been in great power , and spreading themselves like a green bay-tree , yet that they shall passe away , and not be ; that they shall be sought for , and not found , i shall give these symptomes . . their horrible pride , insolencie , and arrogancie , extolling themselves and their partie to the heavens , with the scorning vilifying , trampling upon , and despising of all others ; and that in such unparallel'd wayes , as no age c●n shew the like ; and that not only against particular persons of all ranks , nobles , gentrie , ministers ; but great bodies and societies , as the parliament of england , the kingdome of scotland , the common councell of the citie of london , assembly , &c. the luciferian pride , high spirit , and haughtinesse of the sectaries of all sorts , in all places and businesses , and towards all persons they have to do with , in their writings , speeches , gestures , actions , is seen and spoken of thorowout the kingdome , and breaks out daily in their impatiencie of being contradicted , or having any thing said against their way ; in their endervouring to break and crush all that will not dance after their pipe ; in their not caring to hazzard and ruine all religion , both kingdomes , but they will have their wills ; and so in manie other things . now god assures us in the scripture that * pride goes before destruction , and an haughty spirit before a fall : prov. . . that a mans pride shall bring him low : prov. . that when pride cometh , then cometh shame : prov. . . and god threatens by his prophets , he will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease , and will lay low the haughtinesse of the terrible , isa. . . dan. . . and indeed pride hardens mens hearts , and when their hearts are lifted up , and their minds hardned in pride , then god throwes them downe . . the sectaries in promoting of their wayes and cause are grown extream violent , desperate , and unreasonable , knowing no rules of moderation nor forbearance ; they go violent ways , and like iehn , d●ive furiously ; they do those things daily which wise , staid considerate men would never have done , nor anie but mad men ; and which anie man who hath his eies in his head may see , must needs destroy them : god hath hid wisdome from them , and befooled them , leaving them to do manie things against sense and reason . god hath left them , yea given them up to those courses and waies ( of which i could give divers instances ) which no wise men would ever have taken , and which makes them abhorred of all good and moderate men . now the befooling of men , hiding wisdom from them , leaving them to rashnesse and violence , are presages of ruine , according to that saying , quos deus vult perdere hos dementat , and according to that of the prophet , i will hide wisdom from them : nullum violentum est perpetuum , is seen in daily experience , and we may remember that the violence and furie of the prelaticall partie did undoe them ; and according to all humane reason , without that , it had been impossible to have c●st them out , being so deeply rooted in the lawes and customes of this kingdome ; and therefore the sectaries before they are rooted and setled , being so violent , furious , and daring far above the bishops , what can we expect but their speedy downfall ? give them but rope enough and they will hang themselves ; they run so fast , and ●ide so fiercely that they cannot but fall and break their necks , they drive so furiously and madly , that they cannot but overthrow all . . the great prosperitie , strange successe , and marvailous prevailing of the sectaries in their waies & opinions , their devices and designs for the most part taking eff●ct and succeeding , so as they are mightily increased , many fallen unto them , and 〈◊〉 wind , almost , favouring them ; whereas on the other hand the presbyterian partie , both our brethren of scotland , and the godly ministers and people in england have beene sorely afflicted , much crossed and troubled to to see things as they are ; the scots have beene sorely visited with sword , pestilence in their own land , obstructed , reproached , evill intreated by many in this land : the assembly , the godly ministers and people of the kingdome , despised , scorned and abused severall wayes , yea , deserted , and looked upon with an evill eye , as if the troublers of israel , and worse then malignants , so that they have beene forced manie a time to cry out to god , heare o our god , for we are reproached ; now great prosperitie , successe in a bad way , and in the use of bad meanes , as lyes , scandalous reports , under-minings , plottings , false-dealings , &c. is a great symptome of destruction both to particular persons , and to a partie : whom god intends certainely to destroy , he fattens before , and lets them bee verie happie , thereby to prepare them for the day of slaughter : whom hee meanes to doe good unto in the latter end and deliver , he afflicts and laies them low before , laies the foundation deep that he may build high , and for this let the reader consult with these foure places of scripture , ier. . , , . psal. . , and . , . psal. . , , . and , , . psal. . . the sum of all which places is to teach us , that the more men prosper in a bad way , and flourish more then ordinarie , having what their hearts can wish , bringing all their devices to passe , the more sure they are of being puld out as sheep for the slaughter , and prepared for the day of slaughter , and that within a little while , they shall not bee , nor their place found , but brought to desolation as in a moment , and utterly consumed ; and then when they are at their height of flourishing , then is it that they shall be destroyed for ever ; great prosperitie is but a lightening before death , and as a great calm which presages the more dreadfull storme and tempest . . the great plotting of the sectaries , laying their counsells deep , contriving and working continually night and day by all kinde of waies and means , and all kind of instruments to effect their worke , and to carrie on their way ; i do not think this manie hundred yeares there hath been a more cunning , plotting , undermining generation in the church of god then our sectaries , or more plots and devices of all sorts on foot , more irons in the fire within so few years , as hath been , and is among them : there 's nothing they doe but they have a design in it , they conceive many plots at once to effect it , they have plot upon plot , and lay snare upon snare : machiavel and the jesuits are but punies and fresh men to them . i am confident they had so laid their plots , cut out their way , removed the rubs , prepared all things , so as that they had set their time , by which they should effect their ends , and speak out what they would have : now god delights to bring to naught plots , to disappoint the devices of mens hearts , to blast and blow upon tricks and under-boord workings , to take the wise in their own craftinesse , and wherein men deale proudly to be above them : the ripening , growing big of plots , is commonly the fore-runner of the downfall of the plotters , and the miscarriage of their plots : for the further clearing of which the reader shall doe well to consider what god speakes in iob. . , , . psal. . , , isa. . . . isa. . , . and indeed god is such an enemy to plots , devices , tricks , that he will crosse and disappoint his owne children in their workings , devisings , and contrivances even for good , when they are too plotting , anxious , or delight and please themselves too much in them ; and this he does often , lest they should attribute the events of things to their counsell , care , &c. and that the worke may appeare to be of himselfe , and not of men , that god may be knowne to be deiu activus & non passivus , as luther expresses it upon a like occasion , and that god doth not use to call martin luther or anie of his saints to be his councellor , but that he doth all things according to his own counsell ; hence we are commanded to be carefull for nothing , or thoughtfull , but in everie thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving , let our requests be made knowne to god : now if god will go quite crosse and contrary , to the counsells , workings , of his servants for the maintaining his church and truth , and bring about all quite another way , then he will much more carrie the counsells of the froward headlong and make them meet with darknesse in the day time , and grope in the noone day , as in the night . . sympt . of the certaine destruction of the sectaries is this , that independencie and sectarisme in england is a meer faction , a partie grown to this height upon particular interests , nourished and favoured all upon politike grounds and ends : independencie now is no religious conscientious businesse , but a politike state faction , severing and dividing it selfe upon other private interests from the publike interests of this church and state , and the interest of both kingdoms , united by covenant : in a word 't is just such anoanother faction as the arminians was in the netherlands . i believe that seven or eight years ago independencie and the church way had somwhat of religion and conscience in it , manie then falling to it much upon those grounds ( though even then there were other ends in it also , as i have showne in my antapologie . ) but now since these times of troubles and difference betwixt king and parliament , these foure years last past , wherein men have seen some probabilitie and possibilitie , in these times of warre and unsettlement of things , to bring about and effect those things they could not hope for before , it hath been and is matter of faction , particular aimes and ends , and not of conscience and pietie , as all wise men may see , and is apparent by these particulars : first 't is not carried on as a way of god , as a matter of religion and conscience , in gods way , and with gods means ; but carried on altogether with policie , art , plots , trickes , equivocations , mentall reservations , lies , falsenesle , doing anie thing though never so unjust and unrighteous , if it will further and advantage , that way , and hinder its opposite , viz. presbyterie , and the settlement of the church ; yea , declining and forsaking the profest principles that way , and going contrary threunto , in razing the verie fundations of independencie , and the church way . secondly , there are multitudes of persons in all places , who doe not so much as know or understand anie of the principles of independency and thé church way ; yea that hate most of those principles if they were tied to live according to them , that yet are great sticklers for independencie , and the sectaries , yea , are the heads and patrons of it in all places , and upon all occasions , and this is observed by manie wise men , that take those who now are friends for it , and stand for it upon all occasions , among them all there is not one in ten that conscientiously and in his judgement holds that way to bee of god , or is an independent , which cleerly showes 't is a faction . thirdly , all other errours and opinions , sectaries of all sorts ( as well as independents ) are encouraged , nourished , favoured , and the worst of them though being so abominable , 't is not anie policie to appeare for them ; yet one way or other , under one notion or other , are pleaded for , dealt gently with , either delayed and put off , or brought off by one meanes or other , and are freely suffered to grow and increase , and no way taken to suppresse or discourage them , which cleerly showes independency is a faction , and hath other designes then that of conscience , in furthering the growth of all sorts of sectaries , holding tenets against their principles as well as ours , by licensing their books , &c. and upon all occasions , shelters and protects all sorts of them . fourthly that independencie is a faction , and not matter of conscience , appeares because all these following sorts and ranks of men come in unto it ; . needie , broken , decaied men , who know not how to live , and hope to get somthing , turn independents and sticklers for i● . . gail●ie , suspicious and obnoxious men , who have been or are in the lurc● , and in feare and danger of being questioned , or have bin questioned , they turn independents to escape questioning , or if questioned , that so they may come off the better , independency being a sanctuarie and the horns of the altar where many obnoxious persons fly and are safe ; and many of these guilty persons that they may merit the more prove fiercer independents and sectaries then manie others . . some who have businesses , causes , and matters depending , strike in with the independent sectaries , pleading for them , that so they may finde friends , be sooner dispatcht , fare better in their causes , &c. . ambitious , proud , covetous men , who have a mind to offices , places of profit , about the army , excise , &c. turn about to the independents , and are great zealots for them . . libertines and loose persons , who have a desire to live in pleasures , and enjoy their lusts , and to be under no government , they are fierce and earnest for independents , and against presbytery . . all wanton-witted , unstable , erroneous spirits of all sorts , all hereticks and sectaries strike in with independency , and plead they are independents . . such who have no minde to peace , nor to the settlement of things , either out of hope , whilest things remain unsetled , bishops and former times may come in again ; or that love to fish in troubled waters , or are afraid to lose offices and places that may fall with the ending of these troubles , these persons strike in with independents , and side with them . . many who in our churches are discontented at the faithfull preaching of their ministers close to their consciences , at their admonitions and suspensions from the sacrament , because loose , scandalous , or because of some difference upon their tithes , or such like , forsake our assemblies , and betake themselves so independents and sectaries , of which i could give divers instances ; all which showes the church-way and independency to be nothing else but a faction : now factions and parties in kingdomes and commonwealths , though they may prevaile to a great height , and grow for a time , especially in troublous unsetled states , in the springs and falls of kingdoms and commonwealths ; yet when they come to be discovered , laid open , and come to some head and ripenesse , they use to fall and be cast out : if we consult with the scriptures , or with the histories and chronicles of kingdomes , as the french and english , &c. wee shall finde the strongest , powerfullest factions and parties both in churches and states , who have had divided interests from the publike , have come downe and miserably perished : and we may see this fully made good in the anabaptists of germany , the arminian faction in the netherlands , and our late prelaticall faction , who though they were all growne so high , as they hazzarded the ruine of the countreyes and commonwealths wherein they arose , yet they all fell and were brought downe , and so shall it be with this sectarian faction ; can they think that either god , or these kingdoms will suffer these men long , or that the people will be alwaies bewitched with them ? no , the eyes of men will be open , and they will be discovered every day more , and we shall see them falling down like lightning . . symps. their reaching after , and medling with all kind of persons and things , grasping of all at once , labouring to ingrosse all offices , places , power into their hands , and those of their party , st●ighting , abusing , & trampling on one way or other , all that stand in their way , & are their opposites , there being nothing military , civil , ecclesiasticall , but they have an eye upon , and do endeavour to have a hand in , not caring in the least when it furthers their designes , to discontent all sorts and ranks of persons , king , parliament , our brethren of scotland , the city of london , reformed churches , assembly , the godly ministery of the kingdome , particular worthy persons in the armies , among the gentry , &c. they make account to carrie all before them , to get all to be for them by one means or other , and in time to breake all that shall dare to appeare against them , or crosse their wayes . now in all states and kingdoms polupragmaticalnesse in some persons , greedinesse and over-hastinesse to have all , and thereupon offending and provoking many , hath been a fore-runner of their fall : i shall onely instance in this kingdome , and of the late times , which all remember . what it was that ruined the bishops and their party , but their grasping and medling with all at once , church and commonwealth together , england and scotland both , provoking also all sorts of persons against them , nobility , gentry , city , ministers , common people ? whereas ( as many wise men would often say , and comforted themselves in the worst of those times ) if the bishops and that party had dealt but with a part at once , one kingdome onely , as england , or or the church alone , or commonwealth alone , letting the other kingdome be quiet to enjoy their lawes , and suffering men to enjoy religion and their ministers , though they had some pressures upon them in commonwealth , yet in all probability in time they might have had their wills : but now the bishops and that party oppressing both church and commonwealth at once , grasping to have all , they will lose all ; and we see what is befallen the bishops and that party : so our sectaries medling with both kingdoms at once , with church and common-wealth together ; and having provoked all sorts of men , nobility , gentry , ministers , city , people , our brethren of scotland : will not be able to stand long , but king , parliament , scotland , city , ministery , countrey , will be so against them , as they must fall , let who will or can hold them up . . sympt . of the downfall of the sectaries , is the great sinnes and wickednesse of that party , who are even now ripe for judgment , and their iniquities almost full ; and i am confident , that for this many hundred years there hath not been a party that hath pretended to so much holinesse , strietnesse , power of godlinesse , tendernesse of conscience above all other men , as this party hath done , that hath been guilty of so great sinnes , horrible wickednesse , provoking abominations as they are . the sectaries are full of ephra●●●● gray haires ( though they will not know it ) and these following sinnes and courses presage their ruine , viz. their deep hypocrisies and pretences of religion and conscience meerly to serve their lusts , and to bring about their own ends , their perjuries and breach of solemne covenant with god , making nothing at all of it , their great unthankfulnesse and ill use of gods mercies and deliverances , their great ingratitude and unkindnesse to men , particularly to 〈◊〉 brethren of scotland , their blood guiltinesse in destroying the lives of many by dipping weakly and ancient persons in rivers in cold seasons , and in the destroying of so manie soules by errours and heresies and drawing them from their faithfull pastours , their horrible uncleannesses and lusts , their fearefull despising and mocking of all gods faithfull ministers , and ordinances , their oppressions , injustice , and unrighteous dealings with manie they have had to doe with and where they have anie power , their base self-seekings , seeking their owne things , their honour , profit , advancement of their faction under pretences of selfe-denyall , and the publike good , their holding of damnable heresies and all kinde of abominable errours , their horrid blasphemies against god , christ , the scriptures and all his ordinances , their machiavillian policies , jesuiticall equivocations , falsnesse and treacherousnesse , their underminings and laying snares for men , their countenancing standing for the unworthiest vilest of men , so they will be for their faction , their justifying and pleading for a toleration of all religions , and consciences , even to blasphemies against god and his word , their inventing of lies and raising scandalls upon the worthiest and innocentest men , as ministers and others to blast them with the people , their prophanenesse and loosenesse of life in making nothing of the lords day , daies of fast and thanksgiving , nor of holy duties , as praying , &c. their carnall confidence and trusting in arms of flesh , their using of wicked and unjust waies , and means to compasse their ends , not standing upon any rules , or keeping to any principles , so it may advantage them , violating bonds of friendship , going against the lawes of nations , joyning with the worst of men against good men , labouring to sow divisions among brethren , raising evill reports , fomenting jealousies , and using all waies in their power to ingage the two nations in a war one against the other , not caring to hazzard the ruine of all for the upholding of their faction . many of the sectaries have forfeited all principles of ingenuity and conscience , and will not stand upon any thing that may probably doe their worke for them : they will take counsell of baalzebub the god of ekron whether they shall recover , use the devills meanes , as lying , breach of promises , joyning with wicked men , &c. for pretended libertie of conscience and upholding their way . in a word , they are like that judge spoken of in the . of luke , which feared not god , neither regarded men ; all they regard is the effecting of their designes , and other things in order to that . and ●s many sectaries are in these too faulty and guilty , so the verie best of them that i know , their ministers , and others who are leaders , and have been anie long time of the way , and unsterstand the state of things , they are extreamly faulty in patronizing all kind of sectaries , and being against all the waies of suppressing them , in using all subtill politike waies and devices to hinder and delay the reformation , in joyning with bad men against what they acknowledge good , in going against their owne principles , razing their owne foundation ; besides , they are verie proud , lofty , touchy , full of equivocations , reservations , pretences , pretending one thing , and doing quite otherwise ; so that i may say of them with the prophet micah , the best of them is a brier , the most upright is sharper then a thorne-hedge ; and therefore the day of their visitation cometh , now shall be their perplexity . and certainly , these fearfull sinnes and strange wayes ( especially in men who have pretended to more sanctitie and holinesse then other men , having also , upon those pretences of greater puritie , &c. g●ounded their great separation and division from all the reformed churches ) must needs provoke god to visit and to punish them severely ; and because of his great name which they have taken upon them and so prophaned , god will be sanctified ( unlesse g●eat and speedy repentance prevent it ) in punishing them sooner and more remarka●ly then the prelates and their partie : and therefore in the close of this symptome of the downefall of the sects , i shall , in the name of the presbyterian party , and of all those who are for the solemne league and covenant in both kingdomes , make use of those words to and against the sectaries , which both kingdomes ( upon the coming in of our brethren of scotland ) used in their joynt declaration to and against the popish , prelaticall and malignant party : * it is his own truth and cause , which we maintaine , with all the reformed churches , and which hath been witnessed and sealed by the testimonie ▪ sufferings and blood of so many confessours , and martyrs , against the heresie , superstition and tyranny of antichrist . the glorie of his own name , the exaltation of the kingdom of his son , and the preservation of his church , and of this iland from utter ruine and devasta●ion is our aime , and the end which we have before our ●ies . his covenant have we in both nations solemnly sworn and subscribed , which he would not have put in our hearts to do , i● he had been minded to destroy us . the many prayers and supplications which these many yeares last past , but especially of late have been offered up with fasting and humiliation , and with strong crying and tears unto him that is able to deliver and save us , are a seed which promise unto us a plentifull harvest of comfort and happinesse : and the apostasie , atheisme , idolatrie , blasphemie , prosanenesse , crueltie , excesse , and open mocking of all godlinesse and honestie have filled up the cup of our adversaries to the brim , and threaten their speedy and fearfull d●struction , unl●sse it be prevented by such extraordinarie repentance , as seemeth not yet to have entred into their hearts . . sympt . is this , when god hath at some times testified against them , and spit in their faces , as by laying open their nakednesse , and fully discovering their ways , by some books written , by some sermons preached by godly ministers , by casting some rubs in their way , in stirring up the citie of london to appeare against them , or in disappointing some of their purposes by strange and unexpected passages of his providence from heaven , yet upon none of these occasions have they repented of their deeds to give god glorie , or humbled themselves before his ministers speaking to them from the mouth of the lord , or abated of their spirits ; but contrariwise , have gnawed their tongues for pain , blasphemed the more because of their pains and sores , and stirred up themselves with so much the more industrie and subtiltie , to plot and work by all kind of wayes and meanes to heale their wounds : and i could give many instances , how upon such books coming forth , and upon such acts of providence , which a man would have thought should have made them give over , they have been more resolved , active , desperate , betaking themselves to evill wayes and strange courses for the saving of themselves , as aspersing and raising scandals and false reports upon the persons whom they think have wounded them , as in the weekly pamphleters venting some desperate passages , and putting forth strange books upon the nick of things , with many other wayes , all which wise men cannot but observe ; in which courses they have been like balaam , numb . . going on their way resolvedly , though the angell of the lord have stood in their way with a sword drawn , and their feet have been crushed against the wall . now it is a great symptome of destruction and ruine to a partie , or to particular persons , when the hand of god is lifted up against them , that they will not see ; and that when god wounds them , instead of falling down before him , they seek to cure their wounds by unlawfull means ; and that when he powrs our vials upon them , and scorches them with great heat , they blaspheme , and do not repent , that when hee stops them , they will drive more furiously , and that when hee makes mens pride testi●●e to their faces , they do not return nor seek him for all this : this is the fore-runner of destruction in the antichristian partie , revel . . , , , . and this was a fore-runner of destruction in the prelates and that partie ; that after their great and long prosperitie and successe , when god did by writing , preaching , raising up of witnesses testifie against them , and did by other acts of his providence crosse them , in raising up the kingdome of scotland against them , yet they would not give in , nor abate ; and when a peace was concluded with scotland upon the kings first going into the north , and they might have enjoyed their honours , greatnesse , for all that , they wrought so upon the kings returne , as to procure those articles to be burnt by the hand of the common hang-man , and the war to go on , which proved their ruine and fatall destruction . and for a conclusion of this symptome , i will end it with those words of the prophet isaiah , lord , when thy hand is lifted up , they will not see ; but they sh●● see , and be ashamed for their envie towards thy people : yea , the fire of thine enemies shall devoure them . lord , thou wilt ordaine peace for us : for thou also hast wrought all our works for us . and though it be a sad thing , that men holding forth a profession of religion should fall to those wayes , and grow to such an height as i have laid open ; yet i am perswaded it is a good hand of god , and his speciall providence and mercie to his church in these kingdomes , to leave the sectaries to fall into so many evils , to take such strange wayes thus to discover themselves , and to proceed so far , that so the kingdomes knowing them well , they might in the issue be more effectually cured , and perfectly delivered from them : for , had these men kept themselves within the compasse of a few of their opinions , and carried things faire , and not broke out as they have done , we should have thought them good holy men , been much taken with them , and many would have been deceived by them ; yea , in time they might have got such an interest , and had such an influence , as to have corrupted all ; but now having thus early discovered themselves , both in matters of church and state , in opinions and practices , this hath so opened the eyes of this kingdome , yea of both , that it will cause them to abhor and abominate them as a wicked faction , whose principles would bring in an universall anarchy , both upon church and state , overthrowing all ministerie , setled government , and order in the church ; being against kingly government , the house of peeres , house of commons ( unlesse ad placitum , and so long as the common people like them ; ) and all power of magistrates ( in capitall matters over church members ) in the commonwealth ; and who cared not to have sacrificed the religion , peace , happinesse of these kingdomes , upon the ambition , furie , pride , lust , opinions of anabaptists , libertines , seekers , brownists , independents : and therefore , however the sectaries may flatter themselves in the encrease of their partie , in the power they have in some places , in the favour they find among some great men ; yet let them know , notwithstanding their policies , all their arms of flesh , all their friends in the armies , in the a house of commons , and in b committees which they so boast of , yet god will overthrow them ; and these eight particulars are certaine symptomes of their ruine ; and let who will do what they can to uphold them , yet god will bring them downe ; for , when they spring as the grasse , and as the workers of iniquitie flourish , then is it that they shall be destroyed for ever : and therefore let us be couragious and faithfull to the cause of god , contending earnestly for the faith which was once at livered to the saints ; and let us be in nothing terrified by the sectaries . and to all the symptomes i have given already ( being so many fore-runners of their fall ) let the reader consider this , that they have their deaths wound already , the fatall arrow sticks in their sides , and having begun to fall , they shall surely fall : and that ( besides the citie of london , and other instruments ) god will honour our brethren of scotland , to make them a great means of their falling ; and they shall fall before the scots ( whom they have so vilified and unworthily dealt with ) as the prelaticall and popish partie did : and , me thinks , the way of gods proceedings all along this way of reformation , and many passages of his providence hint & point it out to us ; for the sectaries are a faction alike opposite to our brethren of scotland , viz. the other extreme ; and all along , from first to last , god hath made the scots instrumentall for the good of this kingdome , and bringing things thus far . and that god will honour the kingdome of scotland , and the church-reformation according to their way , to bring down the sectaries , let the reader consult with m. brightman ( a man of a propheticall spirit ) in his exposition on the church of philadelphia , rev. . , , . where he shews , that church to whom so many promises are made , to be the reformed churches of geneva , france , scotland , and those who are according to that way of reformation in doctrine and church government ; and among many things observed by m. brightman on that place , i shall only point at two . . that philadelphia ( the type of geneva , scotland , and the churches of that reformation ) is most famous for truth of doctrine : as for truth of doctrine , where is there any place in the whole world chaster and sounder ? here the whole papacie is destroyed ; anabaptists , antitrinitarians , arrians , and such monsters raised again from hell , partly in germany , partly in transylvania , never found a sharper enemy . . by those who say they are jewes , and are not , vers . . in the antitype are all those who holding errours , do arrogate alone to themselves truth , faith , salvation , the promises of god , boasting nothing else but the temple : such were the arrians under constantine , constantius , valens ▪ and such are at this day the papists , glorying in peters chaire : these will be accounted the only catholikes , and their church the only church of christ , &c. now if wee consider well of these two things , . we shall find no church sounder for doctrine than the church of scotland , nor greater enemies , not only against papacie and prelacie , but against anabaptists , seekers , and all kind of sectaries , than they are . . wee shall not among all heretikes and sectaries that have been since the writing of this epistle , find any that have more resembled the jewes , in boasting themselves to be the only people of god , than the sectaries of our times , the anabaptists , independents , who extoll themselves for the only saints , calling themselves the saints , the people of god , the church ; and their way is called by them the church-way , church-fellowship , christs way , and that all who are not of their way are without , &c. so that these words do most fully agree to them , who say they are iewes , and are not , but do lye ; and therefore to conclude this corallarie , all the promises made to philadelphia , do belong in a speciall manner to our brethren of scotland : as , first , that god will make them come ( viz. those who are the antitype to those jews , the sectaries , anabaptists , independents , that whole faction ) and worship before their feet , and to know that god hath loved them ; that is , they shall overcome and triumph over these sectaries : and however they have been hitherto abused and scorned by them , neither have these unthankfull men acknowledged my love from that singular gift of zeale , pietie , which i bestowed upon thee ; yet i will adorn thee with those things which are in great account in the world : thou shalt have victories over these enemies , and thou shalt enrich thy self with their spoiles ; so that no man but shall be compelled to acknowledg thee deerly beloved , whom , above all hope , they shall see so wonderfully encreased . o church of scotland , and all yee that are for reformation presbyteriall against the sectaries , nourish your hopes by these things , neither let your hearts be troubled whatsoever the w●●ld speaks against you . secondly , because they have kept the word of gods patience , god will keep them from the houre of temptation which shall come upon all the world , to try them that dwell upon the earth : that is because they stood for my doctrine and truth with a great deale of danger , and yet with a great deale of patience have constantly continued in their duty ; i will therefore deliver them out of their dangers , i will not suffer them to sinck and perish in their trialls , but i will give them strength whereby they shall not only strongly beare their calamity , but they shall also over-come and be conquerors ; not that the houre of temptation shall not at all touch these philadelphians , ( for it can hardly be in the common calamity of the whole world , that they should be wholly free ) but to keep them from the houre of temptation , is to deliver them as god saved them from the hands of their enemies that is , deliver them , . iudg. . . him that over-commeth god will make a pillar in his temple , he shall go no more ou● , &c. that is , god promises to make that church over-comming , being an hebraisme nominativi absoluti and the reward is , that that church shall be like a pillar in the temple of god , that is , shall remain firm and lasting in the church , neither shall that church feare any ruine or destruction , however the raine falls , the flouds beat , the winds blow , and all things with a joynt force break in upon them . the spirit of god alludes to the two brasen pillars placed by solomon in the temple of god , which set forth the stability of the sonnes of god. and so by the grace of god is this church not tainted nor corrupted with schisme and base defection as the church of sardis was , which having no care of a full reformation , by the just judgement of god lost the most of the people . corall . iii. hence then from all these errours , heresies , blasphemies , and practises of the sectaries , we may see what a great evill and sin separation is from the communion of the reformed churches , and how highly displeasing to god for men to make a schisme and rent in the church of god in a time of reformation , god punishing the schisme and separation of our times with so many heresies , blasphemies , wicked practises , &c. as i have laid down in this and my former book , wherein god witnesses from heaven against the present separation in giving men up to great spirituall judgements and evills ; and indeed god testifies more against the sectaries of our times , then against the old brownists and separatists , leaving the sectaries of these dayes to fall into greater errours , heresies blasphemies , and more pernicious practises then the former , few of them in comparison falling either to those opinions or practises which generally the separatists do now , but held to their first principles more ; a great reason whereof i conceive to be this , the old separatists having greater scandals , and more just occasion of separating then the new the old separatists being like men stealing upon need , or some want , the new like those who steale upon wantonnesse , and for their pleasure , the onelike wives and children going away and leaving harsh , bitter , hard , unkind husbands and parents , the other forsaking loving and kind husbands and parents allowing them all things siting , and that can reasonably be desired ) their sinne was not so great then as now , and so the punishment not so great : there are two wayes to judge of the greatnesse of sinnes , and of gods displeasure against them , either by the nature and kind of them , viewing them formaliter in their formality , or in the effects and fruits of them effective : now this corallary leads me to judge and speak of schisme and separation in the latter , and among all punishments the effects and fruits , which declare the greatnesse of any sinne , spirituall judgements and punishments are the sorest and sadest . the punishment upon the heathen , ( rom. . . &c. ) when they knew god , for not glorifying him as god , and for their idolatry , is giving them up to uncleanenesse and vile affections , to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient , suffering them to be fild with all unrighteousnesse , wickednesse , covetousnesse , malitiousnesse , deceit , malignity , debate , to be proud , inventers of evill things , without naturall affection , covenant-breakers , implacable , &c. ( . thes. . . ) the judgement of god upon the antichristian world as a fruit of their sin in not receiving the truth in love , is gods sending them strong delusions that they should beleeve a lye ; . tim. . and the punishment of god upon seducers is , that they shall wax worse and worse , deceiving and being deceived , that they who are filthy shall be filthy still ; revel . . now the judgements of god upon the heathen idolaters , upon the antichristian faction , upon seducers and filthy persons , are upon the schismaticks and separatists of our times : god hath given them up to feareful opinions , to damnable heresies , blasphemies , god hath sent strong delusions to beleeve lyes , strange conceits , and god hath left them to all kind of filthynesse , unrighteousnesse , uncleannesse , unnaturalnesse , &c. whosoever doth but read and consider the first and second part of gangraena , must needs say that god hates schisme and separation , in leaving those who are guilty of it , to do those things they do daily : i may truly say god hath set markes and brands upon this way of separation , not only burning them in their hands , but branding them in their foreheads , schisme hath coins mark and brand upon it of a fugitive and vagabond upon the earth : how do we see in daily experience our sectaries have no rest , but wander and go from one errour and way to another till they quite lose themselves ? being saint iudes raging waves of the sea foaming out their own shame , wandring stars to whom is reserved the blacknesse of darknesse for ever ? the punishment of schisme and separation from the church , is separation from god , heresie , blasphemy , atheism , uncleannesse , unrighteousnesse , schisme doth most easily draw into heresie , and we hardly ever knew or read of any * schisme in the curch which did not make a heresie that it might deservedly seem to forsake the church : the ancient fathers , as irenaeus , cyprian , do excellently shew that those who forsake the church do necessarily fall into most foule errours against the truth of faith , and some of them show that schisme is a worse and more pernicious evill in the church of god then heresie , and no errour will be a compleat and formed heresie in any faithfull man , if schisme be not joyned , and so consequently it will not much hurt the church of god : but schisme of it self , even with sound doctrine in every point , is a most greivous wickednesse which exceeds all other wickednesse . i might out of the fathers enlarge and show the great evill of schisme both in it self and the effects of it , how 't is a greater evill to rend the church , then to worship idols ; yea , that martyrdome it self cannot profit a schismatick , that 't is so great an evill that the bloud of martyrdome cannot blot it out , so cypr. and chrysost. and that god hath more severely punished it then mur●her and other great crimes . corah , dathan , and abiram for their schism were punished more severely , with the earth opening and swallowing them up quick , then cain , and then those who made an idoll ; so * optatus and augustine ; but i shall leave the enlarging of these , and the adding of more to a tractate i intend of the nature of schisme ; only by this and all the dreadfull examples laid down in the first and second part of gangraena , as wrighter , clarkson , hicb , webb , boggis , oats , ienney , mistris attaway , ni●bols , denne , &c. we may learn to see that schism and separation are great evills highly displeasing to god , and that we have great reason to shun and flye from them , as from a serpent , lest wee become monsters of men , and god give us up to a reprobate sense and a spirit of errour . in a word , to conclude this corallarie , what the apostle speaks to the corinthians of idolaters , &c. long before their time , that these things happened unto them for examples , and these things were their examples , to the intent they should not be idolaters , &c. that i may say of our times , that all these spirituall punishments on schismaticks in our dayes and times are our examples to the intent that wee should not separate from this church , and set up other churches , lest god let us fall from independency to anabaptism , and antinomianism , and from anabaptisme to be seekers , and from seekers to be antiscripturists , and sceptiks , yea , blasphemers and atheists . corall . iv. hence then we see from all these errours , heresies , blasphemies , proceedings of the sectaries , that magistrates , ministers , and other christians , masters of families , parents , &c. have been asleep , and too carelesse , that so many tares have been both sowed , and are grown up to such an head : if the magistrates , ministers , and christians every one in their places and callings had been awake and watchfull , improving their power , authority , gifts , for purity of doctrine and unity , the field of this kingdome could not have been so sowen with tares , nor the garden of this church so overgrown with weeds , yea , briers and thorns . christ tels us in the parable , matth. . . while men slept , the enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat ; that is , the divell takes occasion by the negligence and slothfulnesse of those that have the charge of others , to doe mischiefe in gods church . the prophet isaiah showes , isa. . , . that all the beasts of the field , yea , the beasts of the forrest come to devoure : viz. hereticks and schismaticks ( resembled to wolves , foxes , &c. ) enter in , not sparing the flock : and the reason is , the watchmen are blinde , dumb dogs , they cannot bark , sleeping , lying down , loving to slumber ; that is , their rulers , both ecclesiasticall and civill that should watch the approach of the enemy , and be as watchfull mastives to give warning of theeves approaching to the house , or wolves to the flock , are either dumb , or drunk , or fast asleep . and truely , we may thank the connivance and winking of magistrates , the silence and forbearance of ministers , the want of zeal in masters and parents , that spirit of slumber and sleepines that hath fallen upon the kingdom , for all the tares , wilde oats , and weeds that are grown and sprung up among us : and to all the sorts of sects in this kingdome which i have named , as seekers , &c. i may add this of sleepers and dreamers , which i am afraid are the most generall of any other , there being too many sleepers in all places , and among all ranks , in citie , countrey , among the magistrates , ministers , and private christians ; and would to god this were the worst in this kingdome , that many both in magistracy and ministery were onely sleepy and heavie , and that they were not in a dead sleep , in a lethargie that nothing can awake them : but 't is too apparent that god hath powred out upon many the spirit of deep sleep , and hath closed their eyes , even rulers and seers hath hee covered , and all the sermons , books , speeches ( which one would think would awaken men ) are as the word of a book that is sealed , which men deliver to one , saying , read this ; and he saith , i cannot , for it is sealed : nay , not onely so , but this is the condition of this church and state , that many who are dead asleep as in reference to prevent or suppresse the sowing of heresies and schisms , are awake and alive , yea , watchfull at midnight , and waiting upon all opportunities to promote and further heresie , schism , and to hinder , crosse all means for the suppressing of them ; witnesse the many emissaries sent forth into most parts of this kingdome , witnesse the many books written , sermons preached for them ; witnesse those who stand up for , and use all means to bring off sectaries when in question , &c. witnesse many ( who professe to be against independency , and for presbytery , to be with us ) that upon all occasions , even before the parliament , and in other places , heal the hurt of this kingdome slightly , and dawb with untempered morter , preaching that our errours are not so many , that there are them who make them to be more then they are , and call truths of god errours ; and they say , that in other times , as in the primitive church , &c. there were greater errours , and therefore wee need not be so troubled . but ( for my part ) i look upon this luke-warm temper , remissenesse in reference to the faith once delivered to the saints , which hath possessed so many in this kingdome , magistrates , ministers and people , as that which may hazzard all , and may once more provoke god to spue out of his mouth the luke-warm angel that is neither cold nor hot . and to draw towards a conclusion of this , i shall speak to those in authority in the words of the prophet david , psal. . , , , be wise now therefore o yee kings , be instructed ye iudges of the earth : serve the lord with fear , and rejoice with trembling . kisse the son , lest hee be angry , and yee perish from the way . the summe of which scripture is an exhortation to kings , parliaments , and all sorts of governours in high place , . to lay aside pride , and self-conceit of their own carnall wisdomes , and with meeknesse to receive the yoke and government of christ laid down in his word , and by their lawes and ordinances to serve christ , in establishing the true worship of god , and to suppresse all false worship and doctrine . . hee calls upon kings and judges to be wise ; implying , first , that the * conceit of their owne wisdome ( by which they are puf●ed up ) hinders them from learning that which is their duty , and truely right . secondly , implying , magistrates of all sorts , both kings and judges , are subject to want spirituall wisdome , and to be fooles , to goe by crooked rules of carnall policie , as ieroboam , fearing to lose parties , to part with any state-interest , &c. rather then to keep close to the word of god , to doe their duties , and to trust him . . the psalmist teaches kings and judges wherein true wisdome and understanding consists , viz. in serving the lord with fear , and kissing the son ; not onely in their own persons serving god , and subjecting to him with the kisse of honour and reverence as ordinary private men , but quatenus tales , as kings and magistrates , to submit their scepters to christ , to serve him , and to convert the power they have received from god , to the propagation and defence of his kingdome . then indeed ( as learned * gerhard speaks ) kings and states serve christ , and kisse him , if themselves doe not only receive the doctrine of christ , and imbrace it by faith ; but also with the power given them of god , see to this , that purity of doctrine shall be preserved in the church , idolatrie and false worships shall be abolished , wolves shall be driven from the fold of christ , the ministers of the church shall be competently provided for &c. and * austin ( speaking upon these verses of the psalmist in one of his epistles ) saith , to whom is it spoken [ serve the lord with fear , &c. ] ? is it not to kings ? but how do kings serve the lord with fear , unlesse it be by a religious severity forbidding those things which are against the commands of the lord ? for every one of them serves him after one manner as hee is a man , after another manner as hee is a king : for as hee is a man , hee serves him in living faithfully ; but as hee is a king , hee serves him in making lawes commanding just things , and prohibiting the contrary : like as ezechias served him in destroying idols , groves , and high-places ; like as josias served him , &c. 〈…〉 ● . god by the prophet here threatens kings and judges , that if they doe not serve him with fear , and kisse the sonne , hee will be angry with them , and they shall perish from the way : that is , the sudden fury of god shall surprize and intercept them whilest they are in the midst of their way ; so * calvin . to perish or be lost in the way imports sudden destruction whilest they are in doing their actions ; so ainsworth upon the place . and for a conclusion of this corallary , o that any particular members of parliament who are for pretended liberty of conscience , a toleration of sects , favourers of sectaries , and out of those principles hinder all they can the setling of religion and government by civill sanction , would often and sadly meditate upon this scripture , and be wise now ( whilest there 's time ) thus to serve the lord , lest suddenly , when they least think of it , they perish from the way , and god make them examples , for adhering so pertinaciously to the sectaries and that party . they may read in ecclesiasticall stories what hath befalle● princes for not serving the lord in fear , and kissing his son ; and they see before their eyes the many evils that have befallen the king , and the great straights to which hee hath been reduced for favouring too much the popish and prelaticall party against the minde and humble desires of both his kingdomes : and can particular persons think ( who are not kings , but under that title of judges ) that they can prosper long in standing for a sectarian faction against the minde of both kingdomes , and that the kingdomes will not see and desire to understand how it comes about ? and by whose means 't is , that wee having taken a covenant for uniformity in doctrine , government , &c. and for extirpating of heresie , schism , and the parliament having declared and made ordinances for presbyteriall government , and declared in some declarations and remonstrances against anabaptists , brownists , preaching of men not ordained , and against leaving particular persons and congregations to their own liberty ; that yet all things should be done quite contrary with an high hand ? for may not now whoever will both preach and gather separated churches , print and act against presbyteriall government ; and for all sorts of sectaries ? yea , such persons are countenanced , preferr'd in all places , and to all kinds of offices and imployments ( which makes many turn independents ) and the most zealous cordiall men against sectaries are displaced , or discountenanced , or obstructed , &c. these things doe seem strange and against all reason , that the parliament , professing and declaring one thing , yet the quite contrary in all things of this nature should be done daily in citie and countrey . in the worst times , when the king was most mis-led by the councels of prelats and evill men about him , there were not actions more contrary in many ministers of state and other persons to proclamations and declarations , then are now to ordinances , declarations and votes of parliament ; and yet we hear of few censured or made examples . now the people every-where say , these things could not be , persons durst not be thus bold to doe these things , but that they know they have some great ones to back them and stand by them ; and the people enquire after , and speak who they be , and questionlesse will represent these things as unsufferable , and as most dishonourable to the parliament , and they will humbly desire these things may be remedied by the power and wisdome of the parliament : and therefore o that all such would be wise in time , be wise now , desert the sectaries , further the work so much the more as before they have hindred it , for there is an emphasis and weight in that adverb * now , signifying they should do it speedily , because the same opportunity will not be alwayes given , and the psalmist hints they may yet do it profitably if they make haste ; but if any doe persist and goe on , working day and night , rolling every stone to uphold that party , he that strikes thorow kings in the day of his wrath , will not spare them , and they shall finde by sad experience , when his wrath is kindled but a little , blessed are all they that put their trust in him . corall . v. hence then , from all the errours , heresies , blasphemies , and wicked practices that are to be found among the sectaries in their assemblies and conclaves , let all such who have been deceived and drawn to them under pretences of greater purity , holinesse , &c. and have any fear and awe of god and his word , be exhorted to leave and forsake them , and to return to the publick assemblies , and communion of this and other reformed churches ; and i shall bespeak them in those words , cant. . . return , return , o shulamite , return , return , that wee may look upon thee ; in the exhortation of the apostle peter , save your selves from this untoward generation ; and in that call from heaven , come out of her my people , that yee be not partakers of her sinnes , and that yee receive not of her plagues : i know there are many in the way who are not of the way , that know not the depths of satan , who are meerly deceived out of their high opinion of some of the men , and of the way , as a most holy people , and as a way wherein they should enjoy an heaven upon earth , a great deale of love , holinesse , sweetnesse , comfort , &c. now i have good hopes that all such , upon the discovering to them the dangerous errours , heresies , pernicious practices that attend that way , will be recovered , and blesse god for delivering them from such a dangerous snare ; and i am perswaded that all those who are fallen from us upon mistakes , that are not dogmatists , nor engaged to the sectarian partie upon points of credit , profit , interest of relations , &c. and shall in the feare of god , and in humilitie read my first and second part of gangraena , by the blessing and grace of god they will be a means to convert and bring them back to us ; and i the rather insist upon this exhortation , because i find both in histories , and in the experience of our owne times , that many sectaries have been regained a : iohannes denkius an anabaptist and a great schollar , was converted by oecolampadius , * obbo philippus a famous anabaptist , yet recanted , and by an ingenuous and free confession laid open the impostures of his companions , and theodor. philippus . out of the perswasion of obbo afterwards repented . many anabaptists were reclaimed by learned musculus , and among the rest , one who was a schollar , afterwards being made a minister of the church , spent a great deale of pains in converting the anabaptists . and now in these times in mine owne and other ministers experience , some who have been of that way told us , they thought the anabaptists a most holy people , which made them to joyne with them , but now seeing their errours and their loose b practices , what a wicked people they are , that hath caused them to leave them . and among the independents i know some * who have forsaken the church-way , and are returned to our publike assemblies . a minister of that way , and a pastour of an independent church for some years , upon re-examination of his former grounds , and holding them up to the light by the word of god , and the writings of some presbyterians giving grounds out of the word of god , saw the independent way to be a garment full of holes , and from the factions divisions hee saw in that way , and the strange opinions and errours that the members of his church run into , hee is turned presbyterian , a minister of one of our congregations in england , and hath publikely in his parish church given god glorie , recanted , professed his being humbled for being in the independent way , and is a great zealot for presbyterie , and against independencie . another of that way , a good schollar , fellow of a colledge , member of an independent church in london , upon reading some books against independencie , and other things he found in that way , left his church , and is a profest presbyterian : i could tell also of a school-master , member of a church in new-england , who is of our churches now since his coming over ; but i must hasten , and unto all these examples for to cause you to returne , consider these following particulars . . stay no longer in the way of schisme and separation wherein thou art , but upon all these discoveries of the errours , heresies , blasphemies , &c. of the sectaries leave them left god be provoked to leave thee to go a great way further , then yet thou art , from independency and anabaptisme , to a seeker , to arrianisme , antiscripturisme , yea , blasphemy , and atheisme . . the independent church-way , is a way of errour , confusion , division , a way that god never shined upon nor blessed spiritually with the blessing of edification , onenesse of heart , and peace in their churches , but hath been a bitter root of division , contentions , errours in all places of the world where ever such churches have been set up , as in new-england , holland , iland of providence , the summer ilands , old england . . come out from these sectaries , this babell , lest being partakers of their sins , you be partakers of their plagues also ; for these sects ( as i have shewed you in the second corallary ) must be destroyed and cast out : and not onely out of this church , but out of all the christian world , and that either as the lesser antichrists , the fore-runners of the great antichrist , or together with him as a part of antichrist , the tail of the beast ; and then all the friends and lovers of sectaries , the merchants who were made rich , and traded in the commodities of the sectaries , shall cast dust upon their heads , and weep and waile when they see all that is come upon them . and for a conclusion of this corallary , i shall wind it up with that sad and patheticall exhortation of m. brightman to the separatists of his time , applying it to our sectaries now : there is in the church of england a twofold great good , the preaching of the word , and the administration of the sacraments , in either of which christ imparts himselfe celebrating a mutuall feast with them ; hee is first received of us by the hearing of the word , then he doth againe receive us in the supper of his body . o we most base and unworthy as often as we fly away from hearing the word i for we refuse christ our ghuest . o we wicked despisers as often as in the sacrament with our brethren wee with-d●aw our selves i for we despise christ calling us to the supper . but these things are added for the singular comfort of the godly . for who would not feare , and with all speed thinke of flying from this church , when they should heare the condition of these ministers to be so hatefull to christ , as that in a shorte time , unlesse they repent , he would spue them out of his mou●h , unl●sse that in the words of christ himselfe they had been assured of communion and fellowship with christ in that church ? praise therefore to thee , o most meeke lamb , who finding the doores shut against thee , dost not , being stird up with fury , presently withdraw thy selfe , and deprive us ( according to our deserts ) of salvation ; but still leavest a plentifull store of thy selfe to all them who open to the knocking by thy word , and do not contemn thy most gracious invitation by the sacraments . therefore it is a wicked and blasphemous errour of them who do so forsake our church , as if christ were wholly gone from hence , neither could there be any hope of salvation to them who staid in it . ☜ let them think that christ is here supping with his . is it a shame for them to sit downe there where they see christ is not ashamed ? are they holyer and purer than hee ? but wherefore do they not convince themselves by their owne experience ? they cannot deny but they first beleeved in christ , before they made this separation from us : was not this from preaching in our church ? but can any man preach unlesse he be sent rom. . ? why do they therefore so perversly refuse the word for some blemish of the externall calling , whose divine vertue they feele in their hearts ? although that fruit doth no more free our depravations from all fault , than a true issue of ones body doth adulterie : neither therefore must we rest contended in these corruptions , or they separate from us for some blemishes . wherefore return yee to the unitie of the church , which hath begotten and nourished you : if you flye this christ , who sups with his elect in our assemblies , and likewise entertains them as they him , truly you shall find him no where else . and then speaking of those who forsake our church , he wishes soundnesse of mind to them that they may return to the truth , whereby they may avoyd that punishment which abides deserters and revolters . now if when the luke-warme angell was in our church , and so many corruptions of ceremonies , &c. that attended him , it was so unlawfull and dangerous to forsake this church , and it was the dutie of those that deserted us , to return , lest the punishment of revolters should abide them : what then is the sin of those who now forsake our assemblies , set up separated churches , when the luke-warme angell is cast out , and all his attendants , and a godly zealous ministerie is brought in , and the ordinances administred free from ceremonies and the inventions of men , and discipline of censures and excommunication a setting up ? o let all such be exhorted to returne to the unity of the church , that they may escape judgements both temporall , spirituall and eternall , and not be judged of the lord as revolters . coral . vi. hence then from all i have laid downe in the first and second part of gangraena of the practices , proceedings , and ways of the sectaries , we may see and observe the great difference between the carriage of the independents , and our brethren of scotland : our brethren of scotland have been constant and true all along to their first principles , to the ends they alwayes held out , to the grounds which they declared they went upon , to the covenant they have taken , and that in every branch and part as well as some , in standing for the kings honour and just greatnesse , &c. as well as standing for their own liberties ; in standing for uniformity in doctrine , worship , discipline and government in the three kingdomes , as for preservation of their own , &c. and neither all their sufferings , hardships , difficulties on the one hand , nor all the offers , temptations , flatteries on the other hand , have made them decline from their way , either in their owne countrey , or since they have been in covenant with us . i challenge any man in all this nine or ten yeares of their troubles , to charge them justly with falsnesse or breach of covenant in pretending one thing , and intending another , in forsaking former principles , and falling upon new , according to any advantages offered them ; but now the independents and sectaries have been inconstant , uncertain , and unstable in all their wayes , crying up and extolling our brethren of scotland to the heavens , and afterwards as much casting them downe , pretending a regard to some branches of the covenant , as extirpating popery and prelacy , but not minding others , as maintaining the kings honour , his just power and greatnesse , the extirpating of heresie , schism , the endeavouring the nearest conjunction and uniformity between the three kingdoms in government , discipline , &c. not certain to any principles or ends they have propounded , except those of anarchie , and pretended new light ; not well knowing what they would have , but changing their minds , and framing their wayes according as they have seen their opportunities and advantages ; and because i observe it hath been one great part of the designe of the sectaries , yea and as the maine medium to effect their ends by , the aspersing and reproaching of the scots ( the sectaries looking upon them as that which letteth , and will let untill it be taken out of the way ) which hath been therefore with all industry , artifice and vigour prosecuted ever since the battell at marston moore , and more especially since the moulding or new modell of the army : i shall therefore ( to undeceive the people ) as in the sight of god , out of pure conscience , speak a few things of our brethren of scotland , and show particularly some differences between them and the sectaries . . the scots still upon all occasions have improved and made use of all victories , successes , and advantages put into their hands ( as the coming in of the king now to them ) for the good of both kingdomes , and for effecting the ends declared in the covenant , not for anie particular ends , as to get possession of newarke , or to be revenged for affronts offered them , or injuries done them by the independent party , or to increase divisions , jealousies , discontents between the nations : but now the sectaries have made use of all advantages , and of all successes they have had , and of all events that are fallen out for the increase of their own partie , and effecting their particular ends divided from the interests of both kingdomes , and the ends expressed in the covenant ; yea to increase and further jealousies , discontents , differences between the two kingdomes , by blowing up and aggravating upon all occasions all things against the scots , by railing against and speaking evill of the scots in all companies and places , by aspersing them in manie printed bookes , ( carefully spread and dispersed abroad by the sectaries ) and by many false reports and other dangerous insinuations against the scots vented in weekely newes bookes ( the pensioners of the independent party ) and particularly since the kings coming to the scottish army , many things have beene related and spoken of by the weekly pamphleters , which reflect upon our brethren of scotland , and some upon the kings majestie ( which must needs seeme strange and be verie offensive to all good and wise men ) and so much the more , the king being come in , and in the parliaments quarters . i cannot stand to name the particulars , nor to animadvert upon them now , but referre the reader among others , to peruse mercurius britanicus , numb . . the scotch dove , num . . moderate intelligencer , num . , . neither shall i much need to doe it , for i doubt not but they will recant shortly , and being mercenarie fellowes , wee shall see them within a few weekes ring the changes . . our brethren of scotland have borne with much patience and long-suffering , quietnesse of spirit and humili●ie , infinite reproaches , evill speakings against in city , countrey , by all sorts of sectaries , passed by also manie affronts , neglects , abuses offered them ; and when manie things in this kingdome have gone crosse to their desires , hopes , and the reformation they expected , and divers things have succeded to the content and desire of the sectaries , yet they have put up all , waiting upon god for a change , said little ; neither the commissioners for scotland , nor anie particular person of their nation having put forth intemperate books against those whom they conceived the authours and chief engines in these matters , but have borne to admiration ( considering they left their peace , and incurred the displeasure of their native king to come in to our help , and lay under such great sufferings in their owne countrey ) all the evill surmisings , scandalls , reports , jealousies raised of them , disgraces and scorns , without anie breaking forth . but now the sectaries , upon everie little occasion of being crossed in their way , as by ordinances coming forth against anie of their principles and practices , ( though god knowes they have been little put in execution ) by calling in question any of their partie , though most deservedly and justly , by petitions put up against the sectaries , how proud , how impatient have they beene ? what strange words have they given out ? what meetings have they had ? and what railing pamphlets have been written one upon another , against parliament , assembly , citie . . the scots upon all occasions and opportunities have beene forward for peace , moving for peace and the settlement of the church , desirous of propositions to be sent to his majestie : but now manie sectaries could not endure to heare of peace , not of the kings coming in , nor of the settlement of the church , they have looked so much to their particular ends of profit , increase of their party while things were unsetled , that they have alwaies expressed themselves to the contrary , fearing their way could not thrive nor stand , if once things should come to be setled , and the government and the peace concluded of . manie more differences might be showne between them ; but i must draw to an end , and the understanding reader may by these easily hint at more , and it concernes the whole kingdom now at this time wisely to consider and lay things together concerning the different carriage of our brethren of scotland and the sectaries , that so a good understanding may be between the two nations for the putting a speedy end to our troubles and distractions in church and state , and that we may not by mis-understanding of things , nourishing jealousies , beleeving false reports , serve the designes of some particular men , to put us into a new warre , and occasion new differences now that ( blessed be god ) our worke is even done , and the ship richly laden come into the haven . and to stop the mouths of sectaries and malignants forever , and to possesse us of the reality , honesty , faithfulnesse of our brethren of scotland , consider but what we have found them all along experimentally from first to last , and let any man instance ( if he can ) in any one action , from the beginning of our troubles , wherein the state of scotland hath broken with us , or beene unfaithfull : their going out of this kingdome to their own countrey when they had been in england about the space of a yeare with their good carriage in the land , and upon going home , is knowne unto all and confessed ; and it was a reall confutation of many evill surmises against them in those times . when they were desired to come into this kingdome , then they were a most worthy nation , a nation that god loved and honoured , and that in the judgment of * mr. burr●ug●● an independent , who in a speech at guild-hall in the face of the citie and kingdome , proclaimed them so ; and as they shewed themselves a faithfull people , in returning back to their countrey , and are confessed a worthy people at the time of their coming in , so in their coming in in the depth of winter , wading up to the neck in waters , and leaping over the mountains of ice and snow , and so in all the time they have been in this kingdome ( having wrastled with many difficulties , a cruell prevailing enemy at home , and many sad discouragements in this kingdome ) yet they have been faithfull to the cause of god and both kingdomes , resolving when they were at lowest , in all respects , both in regard of the common enemy and false brethren , to stand to the covenant in all the parts of it , and to see it kept though they all perished ; and now lately , since god so strangely and unexpectedly moved the heart of the king to cast himselfe upon them , by their good and faithfull carriages in the bunsiesse , they have confuted and given the lye to all the evill surmizings , jealousies fomented , reports raised , false suggestions given out against them , as that they meant to possesse themselves of newark , the kings person being as the shadow , and newark as the substance , as that the kings partie should repaire to him , yea , that the newark army was joyned to the scots , as that they would protect delinquents and malignants against the parliament , that they would keep the king , and require a ransome for him , and make use of him for their own designes , and such like ; whereas we see they would not meddle with newark , but professed , if it were given into their hands one houre , the next hour they would surrender it to the english for the parliament ; they have not suffered any who have been in arms , or ill affected against the parliament , to come to his majestie , have taken order to discourage all malignants , have commanded obedience to all ordinances of parliament , even at newcastle where the kings person is , and have made use of the kings coming to them , to perswade w th him for a speedy setling of religion and peace in both kingdoms . god in his wonderfull providence gave the king to them for this end among others to shame their adversaries , and to stop the mouths of all gain-sayers , that he might bring forth their righteousnesse as the light , and their judgement as the noon-day , and might honour them before all the world : so that i may say of them in the words of mr. burroughs , pag. . of his speech at guild-hall , upon the coming in of our brethren of scotland . a nation that god hath honoured , by giving as glorious successe unto , as ever he did unto any ; whose low and mean beginnings he hath raised to as great a bright as ever low beginnings in any countrey were . how hath god dissipated and blasted the counsels of their adversaries ? how hath he discovered all their treacheries ? although they be in themselves ( comparatively at least ) a poore people and of little strength ( as the church of philadelphia was ) yet they have kept the word of gods patience , and god hath kept them in the houre of temptation ; god therfore is with them . well , i say it is happie for england , that we are joyned with them in covenant , for we needed them as much now as ever before , and we are as much beholding to them in regard of our divisions , many of us not knowing what we would have ; and in regard of the many sectaries among us , and the height they have risen unto , as ever we were before , for their help against the popish , prelaticall , and malignant partie ; and therefore happie england , both for the present and for the future , that now wee are coming to a peace , we are so joyned and wrapped up in covenant with scotland , that the peace and vnion is not of england alone , but of both kingdoms ; and that this is our advantage i shall commend to the readers consideration some particulars out of the speeches of mr. solicitor , a prime able member of the house of commons , and mr. burroughs a chiefe man among the dissenting brethren mr. solicitor speaking of the benefits that will redound to this kingdome , and the advantage we shall have by a nearer association with the scots , and by their coming in to this purpose for our assistance , showeth that certainly they are many . the third is this , that whosoever we doe come to a peace , whom gods time is come , that we shall have one , yet their coming in , in all probability it will cause us to have a better , a surer , and a better grounded peace , then if they doe not come in . and likewise what peace soever we have , that it will be perpetuated , and be the securer for us and our posterity to reap the benefit of it . but how is it like to be , when there shall not onely be our owne kingdome , but a brother kingdome , an entire kingdome , one of the same religion with us , one that loves their liberties as well as we , when they shall bee ingaged in point of interest with us , when the same law , the same acts of parliament that shall compose the differences , when if it be broken on our parts in any thing that concernes us , they cannot conceive but that it may be their case the next day , because it all depends upon one law , one and the same title , and their interests is the same ; so that if there were nothing else in it , but that we were like to have the better peace and on better termes , and whatever it be 't is likely to bee kept the better to us and our posteritie , if nothing else were in it , that were much to our advantage : surely if by some considerable summe of money , wee might have brought in , and have them at the end of this peace , and interested in it as well us our selves . master burroughs saith , how happy should wee be , if wee might have them in a neere union with us ? and a people that have carried themselves with as great honour and faithfulnesse , with as great wisdome and order in the most difficult worke that ever a people did undertake in those by and intricate paths that were before untrodden . certainely , that they undertooke at the beginning of their worke , but a few years since , it could not but bee looked upon with the eye of reason , as the most unlikely worke ever to have proceeded , a● any worke hath ever done , and yet how hath the lord been with them , and with what wisdome and graciousnesse have they carried it . so that from the consideration of all i have said in this corallary and from these passages in these speeches , t is good by all meanes to preserve the union of england and scotland , and seeing we shall be so happy in a neere union , and god is so much with them , and carries them thorough with so much wisdome and graciousnesse , and that wee shall have the better peace , and have it the better kept , by having them at the end of it , and interested in it as well as our selves ; let 's hearken to no sectaries nor independents false surmisings , evill reports , and scandalls , cast upon our brethren of scotland , but pray and seek by all means a more near union and communion betweene that kingdome and this , for there is a blessing in them ; and for my part i had a great deale rather fall and perish ( if the will of god were so ) with the kingdome of scotland , and the presbyterian party in england , standing for the covenant and the truth professed in all the reformed churches , then to grow and flourish for a while with the sectaries standing for a toleration of all sects and opinions , yea , then to be a king among them , as iohn of leyden was at munster . finis . errata . first part epist dedicat. pag. . parenthesis ends after your pleasure . epist. dedic . p. . l. . r. can you think . preface p. . l. . r. eternall . p. . l. . r. rejected . p. . l. dele and p. . l. . r. eternall . gangraena second part in the licence r. dau●us . p. . l. . r. many . p. : l. . r. cosens . p. . l. . r. formally . p. . l. . r. his . p. . l. . r. by snatches , p. . l. . r. shovve . p. . l. . after but dele a. p. . l. r. aggravating . p. . l. . for and the proofs , r. and the persons upon proof . p. l. . r. to the nature p. . l. . after scotland add france . p. . l. . r. desired . p. . l. . after as dele yet . p. . l. . r. moneths . p. . l. . r. sun. p. . l. . r. not . p. . r. presbyterians . p. . l. . dele that , p. . l. . r. hovv . p. . l. . r. quum . p. . l. . r. undeniably , p. . l. . r. vvords . p. . l. . r. imputation p. . l. . r. of . p. . r. vvrighter . p. . l. . r. books . p. . l. . so to that purpose . p. . l. . r. are men . p. . l. . r. sprat . p. . l. . r. propagating . p. . marg . note , r. sanctitate . p. , , &c. for m. allen , r. m. alley . p. . r. proved . p. . r. mendacia . the table . the first part of gangraena is by the printer cast into two severall numbers of pages , which divides the whole into two , the first consisting of . pages , the other of . pages , according unto which division the reader must goe in finding out the contents specified in these following tables . the first table , shewing the contents of the first division , consisting of . pages , besides the preface , is as follows : the authors preface , wherein are laid down these particulars . . the authours long expectation of a reply to his antapologia , according to the great words given out , of a reply by the independent party . the reason of his so long silence , and discontinuance from the presse . his purpose and resolution of often coming into the presse for the time to come . the authours account to the reader of the nature of the present book , and his scope therein . the hatred , malignity , reproaches from the world , yea misconstructions from friends , which ministers who appeared against the errors of the times have met with , as christ , the apostles , fathers , athanasius , augustine , hierom ; modern writers , as luther , zuinglius , calvin . . their undaunted courage , constancy , in going on against errours , notwithstanding all their sufferings . the authors preparation , and expectation of all kind of reproaches and oppositions from the sectaries in this work . his firm resolution ( by the grace of god ) not to feare nor be discouraged in this work , but having such a cloud of witnesses , to follow their example , and to goe on with the more earnestnesse , activity and courage , the more he is opposed . in the book itself in the first division , pag. . are premised some particulars from the better understanding of this book . the catalogue of errours , &c. is not of old errors , opinions of a former age , but of errours now in being in these present times , pag. , . though 't is not a full catalogue , and perfect enumeration of all erroneous opinions &c. of these times , yet 't is the fullest that hath yet been made , p. . the intent of this work , not a formal confutation of errours , and opinions , but a discovery of them , p. . errors and strange opinions scattered up and down , and vented in many bookes , manuscripts , sermons , conferences , drawne into one table , and disposed under certain heads , p. . . the errours and opinions contained in this book are laid down in terminis , in their own words and phrases , as neare as possible can bee , pag. . the way laid downe of the proofe of the truth and reality of the errours blasphemies , &c. contained in this tractate , and that by a sevenfold way , p. , , ● . all the errours and opinions mentioned in one , and the same catalogue not all alike , p. . the reader is fore-warned not to be hindred from beleeving the truth of things contained in this book , by all the clamours and reproaches cast upon it , p. . three answers given to the first objection th●t may be against this book , as that it is not seasonable , nor convenient , to discover our nakednesse , and weaknesse , so far to the common enemy , pag. . , . foure answrs to a second objection , made against this book , that it may cause distractions and divisions among our selves , and may offend many good persons that are not sectaries ; p. ● . . the errours , heresies , &c. of the times refered to sixteen heads , or sorts of sectaries , p. . among all these sorts of sects , there is hardly to bee found any sect that is simple and without mixture , but all the sects are compounded , p. . all these sorts of sects , how different soever , yet all agree in separating from our church , and in indepency , being all independents and separatists , p. . the first independent ministers that we read of in antiquitie , and how they were proceeded against in a councel held at carthage , p. , . some of the errors and opi●ions laid down in this catalogue are contrary and contradictorie to others of them , p. . the catalogue of the errours heresies contained in p. , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . the blasphemies of the sectaries , p. , , . some passages in the prayers of the sectaries , p. , , a parallel between our sectaries and the donatists , agreeing in the particulars , p. , , . the sectaries and jesuits agree in . things , p. ● , . the sectaries and the netherland arminians agree in these eight particulars , p. , , . a parallell between the bishops , and that court-party heretofore , and the present sectaries , in six things , p. , , . the sectaries and malignants agree both in the generall , and in three particulars , p. , , , . the sectaries like julian the apostata , and some other enemies of christians , in four things , p. . . the difference in the carriage and behaviour these foure years last past , all along , of the presbyterians both to the honourable houses , and to the sectaries ; and of the sectaries to the parliament , and to the presbyterians , , , , , . the sectaries practices and wayes referred to ten heads , p. . some of their particular practices named , to the number of . and laid down in pag. , , . &c. unto . an answer to an objection , what are practices of some men , and matters of fact to a way , it is arguments must convince men , and not practices , p. . a second table , showing the contents of the second division of the first part of gangraena . foure letters written concerning the sectaries , from p. . to p. . animadversions on the last letter , p. . . . an extract of certaine letters written by some ministers concerning sectaries , from p. , to p. . a relation of some women preachers and of their doctrine , , , , . a relation of some stories and remarkable passages concerning the sects , from p. , to p. . an extract of . letters more , , . some more remarkable passages concerning the sectaries , from p. , to p. . sectaries annointing of the sick with oyl , p. , . a love-feast kept by some sectaries , with the laying on of hands upon their members , for receiving of the holy ghost , p. . a petition drawne up by some citizens , preached against by master greenhill and m. burroughs , pag. , ▪ a discourse betweene mr. greenhill and m. burroughs upon occasion of some wicked opinions maintained in the hearing of m. greenhill , p. . the great evill and mischief of a church being long without a government , p , , . t is more then time to settle the government and discipline of the church , the many errors , blasphemies cry aloud for a speedy setling of church government , , , . the mischeif , evill and danger of a toleration and pretended liberty of conscience to this kingdome and how a toleration is the grand designe of the devil , his master-peece & chief engine , , , , . independencie in england hath brought forth in a few years monsters of errours . as independency is the mother and originall of other sects , so it is the nurse and patronesse that nurses and safeguards them , p. , . m. burton who was so zealous against errours , arminianisme , innovations , in the bishops days , can now let false doctrines go unquestioned , not writing against , nor complaining to the parliament of sermons , books , wherein all kind of false doctrine is vented , , , . the confusions and mischiefs we lye under , charged upon the consciences of the independenns , as having been the great means of hindring and delaying the setling of church-government , pag . . the divell an active restlesse subtill spirit , when he can no longer doe things one way , then he will try another , pag. , , , . new light and new truths a weake and deceitfull argument to commend any way or opinion , by all errours vented under this of new light , p. . the true reason and cause of that great growth and increase of the sectaries among us , and so few falling to the presbyterians , is because the sectaries ▪ opinions and practises ▪ , are so pleasing to flesh , and blood , and sundry particulars are instanced in , that feed the carnall hearts of men , p. , . an apologie and justification sufficient for those ministers and people who are zealous for setling religion , and cry out for government , p. , , . the sectaries are a subtill , cunning , active , nimble , deceitfull , self ▪ seeking , plotting , undermining generation , and we have cause to suspect them in everie thing , to feare them yeelding , and to feare them flying , and to look about us in all kinde of transactions with them , p. . many moderate men both ministers and others , by their indifferencie compliance , and favouring the sectaries , have done much hurt , and been a great cause of the evills and mischiefs that lye upon us , p. . the sad and dangerous condition england is in at present , in regard of the heresies , errours , blasphemies , and disoders , p. . england is in a far worse condition then in the late time of the prelats , and that both in regard of the corruption of the doctrine of religion , and in regard of toleration of all religions . p. , . englands condition so sad in regard of the errours heresies from twelve circumstances that accompanie them , p , , , . errours and wicked opinions are worse then the sword , p. . eerrours heresies , are a greater evill then bad life and wicked manners , p. . remedies and directions given both to ministers , magistrates and people , sutable to the condition of this kingdome , in reference to the errours and heresies among us , p. . ministers must set themselves as to witnesse for truth against errours , so in a speciall manner against a toleration , and many instances are given both of the fathers , moderne divines , and of bishops , and ministers among our selves opposing toleration , p. , , , , , , . ministers should agree together , to make a remonstrance of all the errors , heresies , blasphemies , schisms , insolencies , tumults of the sectaries that have been in england these five last yeares , p . the magistrates from the consideration of all the errours , heresies , blasphemies , &c. should appoint and command a solemne generall fast to bee kept throughout the kingdome for this very end , that the land might be humbled , and mourn for these heresies , blasphemies , and for the great growth , and too much suffering of them , and for the fearfull breach of our solemne covenant with god , p. , , . the magistrates should command the solemne renewing of the nationall covenant upon such a fasting-day , and command in the close of such fasting daies the wicked bookes printed of late yeares ( some whereof have been licensed ) to be openly burnt , p. . the magistrates should put out some declaration against the errors and waies of the sectaries , as their sending e●issaries into all parts of the kingdome , to poison the countreyes , and should execute exemplary punishment , upon som of the most notorious sectaries and seducers , p. . private christians must take heed of going to the sectaries conventicles to heare them preach and exercise , their private meetings are the nurseries of all errours and heresies , verie pest houses , p. . error is a vast thing without all bank , or bottome , errour knows no end , nor where to stay , p. , . the benefit and excellencies of the presbyteriall government , viz. preventing and keeping out errors , and as soone as errours doe but peep out , plucking them up , p. . some of the sectaries of our times are worse enemies to the truth , then the papists , p. , . some additionall errours laid downe , p. , and in p. , , . an extract of another letter , concerning the sects , p. . two letters , one of the preaching woman , mrs. attaway to william ienney , and another of william ienney to his wife , presently upon his going away from his wife with mrs. attaway , p. . a third table , containing the names and relations of the principall ring-leaders of corrupt opinions and errours in the first part of gangraena . paul bests horrid blasphemies , p. . of the first division of the first part. m. henry den p. . of the second division , p. , . , . of the same division . iohn hi●h , p. , . of the second division . laurence clarkson his petition , recantation , p. . . of the second division of the first part of gangraena . thomas web , p. , . of the second division of the first part . m. erbury that lived in wales , p. . one nicholls , p. , . one marshall a bricklayer , p. . clement wrighter , p. , . captain paul hobson , p. . . one lam an anabaptist , p. . oats a great dipper , , . , . one mills , p. . kiffi● an active anabaptist , p. , , . one patience , p ▪ . one m. c●x , p. . thomas moore , p. . one walwin , p. . lievtenant . colonell lilburne , p. , . of the first division , and p. . of the second division . m. bacon sometimes of glocester , p. . m. bachiler , the licenser-generall of the bookes of the sectaries , p. . . one randall a great antinomian , p. . m. knollys , p. , . m. peters , p. , , , , . one barber , p. . m. iohn good ●ine , alias cretensis , p. , , . of the first division . one cosens , p. . mrs. attaway , p. , , , , . one william ienney , p. , . a table of the main matters contained in the second part of gangraena . the preface . additionall errours to the former catalogue of errours , heresies , pag. , , ▪ , a relation of a monster born of parents that are sectaries . p. an extract of three letters . p. , , a relation of some passages of a lieutenant a great sectary . p. a relation of some stories and remarkable passages concerning the sectaries from p. . to p. a hymn of some of the sectaries . p. . a disputation held at the spitle , about the immortality of the soule by some anabaptists . p. , a copie of a letter sent out of suffolk . p. , an extract of a letter . p. , . the proof of a woman preacher at brasteed , and the confutation of mr. saltmarshes boldnesse in denying it . p. . a discovery of walwyn to be a dangerous and desperate man , a pleader for all religions , &c. p. , , a proof of lieutenant colonel lilburns playing at cards p. a discovery of the spirit of mr. iohn goodwin , alias , cretensis . p. the reason of cretensis falling to independency p. sixteen observations upon cretensis , or a brief answer from p. to p. the true reasons why the sectaries called mr. edwards first part of gangraena a book of lyes , whereas 't is proved to be a book full of truth . p. , a letter sent mr. edwards subscribed by the hands of ministers , giving him thanks , and witnessing to the first part of gangraena . p. cretensis his two challenges accepted , and his glove taken up both the first and second time p. . ● reasons given why the names of the men who writ letters were concealed , with a discovery now of the names of those who writ letters . p. , . , , two other challenges of cretensis taken , and he challenged to make good his challenges . p. , independents preaching to bare walls and pewes as much as presbyterians . p. . the bitternesse , bloudinesse which cretensis charges upon mr. edwards , will be found in cretensis and the sectaries . p. , cretensis errour about imputation of faith , and not imputation of christs righteousnesse , with his quoting of calvin , bucer , and others for him who are known ex professo to be against him , made good against him . p. , , cretensis desperate passage in a sermon against the parliament , which he labours to clear himself from , made good against him , with his and other sectaries speaking slightly and scornfully of the parliament . p. , , , cretensis bowling on a day of publike thanksgiving made good . p. , the errours and practises of the independents and sectaries justly brought against them to prove their way to be naught . p. , and in epist. to the reader . p. , a clear confutation of that accusation cast upon the author of the book entituled gangraena , concerning his indirect walking between dunmowe and godalming . p. , , a clear vindication of the truth of that story of nichols , master greenhill , and master burroughs related in the first part of gangraena , with a discovery of the jugling and equivocations of master burroughs writing given under his hand to cretensis . p. , , , , , , , , master burroughs resembled by cretensis to achilles , and master edwards to troilus , where see master edwards answer to that comparison . p. , a reply to that passage of master edwards being charged to abuse mr. ellis of colchester , and the servants of god in those parts . p. , a full proof of such a sectary as thomas moore , though denied by cretensis . p. the strength of malice , and weaknesse of judgement which cretensis hath manifested against the saints . p. , cretensis his fearfull abusing of the honourable court of common councell . p. . . the clearing of that relation of one cosens of rochester , and the confutation of cretensis answer in that businesse . p. . to p. cretensis his folly and horrible pride discovered in professing he had not read one quarter of the book as yet ; nor knowes whether he shall ever care to read it through or no. p. some brief animad versions on master bacons book and one webb . p. . , , some practices of the sectaries . p. , a relation of some more stories and remarkable passages concerning the sectaries . p. to p. the summe of a sermon preached by a sectary a surgeon belonging to the army . p. , a ballad made by the sectaries of the assembly of divines . p. the assemblies last petition answered by saltmarsh , with the anagram upon his name m. al 's trash . p. a letter of advice to the ministers assembled at westminster , with the sectaries threatning of them . p. a confutation of the picture made of the presbyterians by the sectaries . p. , , copies of letters and some extracts of letters concerning the sects , from p. to p. . more particularly a letter from a learned divine beyond the seas , shewing how london goes beyond amsterdam in errours and heresies p. a horrid and unheard of blasphemy of one io. boggis a great sectary . p. a story of a sectary maintaining that he was jesus christ. p. a cleere discovery how farre the sectaries of this time have proceeded and how high they have risen . p. , a cleere discovery of what is like to become of the sectaries , and of their way . p. eight symptoms of the certain ruine and downfall of the sectaries , from p to p. god will honour our brethren of scotland to make them a great means of the falling of the sectaries , with the proof of that . p. , , a discovery of the great evill and sin of separation from the communion of the reformed churches . p. , , , magistrates , ministers , and all sorts of christians have been asleep , and too carelesse , that so many tares have been sowen , and are grown to such an head . p. an exhortation to all those in authori●ty , kings , parliaments , and all so●● of governours in high places to serve the lord with feare , to kisse the son. p. , an exhortation to some particular members of parliament who are for pretended liberty of conscience , and ●avourers of sectaries . p. an exhortation to all those who have forsaken the publike assemblies to returne . p. some examples of anabaptists and independents who had forsaken the communion of this and other reformed churches repenting and returning . p ●● the great difference between the carriage of the independents , and our brethren of scotland . p. and the particulars instanced in p. , the faithfulnesse and reality of our brethren of scotland towards us all along from first to last . p. , . the happines of england in being joyned with them in covenant , as in other respects , so that whensoever we shal come to have a peace , in al probability it will cause us to have a better , a surer and a better grounded peace . p. , the names of some ringleaders of faction and of errours not named in the table of the first part of gangraena . mr. saltmarsh . p. . , mr. durance p. . . . one tho. colyer . p. . one gorton who came from new-england . p. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e tantis & tam eximijs vir●utis ornamentis enituit , tum episcopus , tum imperator : u●rumque enim admitor , alterum propter ingenuà ioque●di libertatem , alterum propter facilem obedientiam . and theodosius speaking of ambrose , saith ; aegre tandem reperi veritatis magisu●m : nam solum ambiosium novi episcopum diguum eo nomine , tantum com●odi re●p●ebensio a viro virtu●e praestanti ad hibira secum apportate solet . theo. eccl. hist. l. . c. ▪ . * book intit . toleration justified , page , . . printed in this last january . * calvini instructio ad●ersus libertinos , cap. . pag. . * m salimarsh smoak in the temple , in which are some desperate errours . book about baptisme , and calling maintenance by tithes iewish and popish undeniably . * ames . animad . in remonstr . synodal . script . super artic. de persev . sanctorum , cap. . de solomone . certum est solomonem non introduxisse ●ut admisisse idola in demum dei , neque adegisse popul●m ut vel ●ei verum cultum desererent , vel colerent idola ; neque probari potest ●um in sua propria persona coluisse idola . hoc tantum cercum est de ejus idololatria , quod infatuatus á mulieribus idololatricis permiserit eas construere . aquinas in ephes. . . istis ergo nolite communica●e imitando , coadjuvando , conlentiendo sed certe hoc non ▪ sufficit , nisi etiam eos reprehendatis . vide●etit ●etit . of the lord maier aldermen , and com●●n● of the city of london presented to the house of peers , jan. . * ex quo etiam sonte manavit , ut idem valentinianus senior sineret in occidente inter christianos quam quis vellet fidem amplecti atque pro arbitrio haereses consectari . at quam consulte exitus declaravit , ambo enim factione ac proditione gentilium necati sunt , gratinnus á maximo valentinianus junior or laqueo strangulatus . baron tom . . ann. . num . . vide more of this in m. pryns epist. dedicat. to the high court of parliament , in his book imis . a fresh discovery of new lights . vita . holland . commendo vos dilectioni dei & odio papa●u● . notes for div a -e a certain brief observations and antiquaeries on m. prins . quest. the falshood of william prins truth triumphing . woodwards answer to a letter . woodwards inquiry into the causes of our misery . arraignment of persecution . breif exhort . to repent . vindiciae veritatis , or burtons answer to d. bastwick . calumny arraigned and cast : with diverse other pamphlets . b calumnie arraigned and cast , or , an answer to m. prins truth triumphing over falshood , pag. but for any such unanswerablenesse as m. prin intends , the one part of it will not endure that such a thing should be spoken of the other , there being enough in the discourse it selfe , to answer whatsoever is to be found in it of any materiall consideration against the congregationall way , o● will in time convenient be made manifest in the sight of the sun , god not preventing it by more then an ordinary , or at least expected hand . and in page . if m. prin knew and conside●ed , who it was that had sindred the independents , and that once and again from answering it 〈◊〉 yet , viz. he that sometimes hindred pau●s coming to the thessalonians , he had little or no cause to glory in that previledge . but quod de●e●tur non auferrut . this book of m. goodwins was printed at least moneths ago . c overton an independent book seller , who boasted the answer was in the presse eaton an independent milliner . some of joh. goodw. church reported that some of his church members preached for him , because ●e was answering the antapol . the fire of thorns is both kindled and soon quenched . ainsworth inlocum . d nazianz. orat. in laudem athan. e august . epist. hieronymus augustino , gratulans , illi quod haereticorum omnium meruit odium , quod quidem gaudet sibi cum illo esse commune . de donatistis potissimum . sentit . et quod signum majoris gloriae est omnes haereti●i detestantur , & me pari prosequuntur odio , ut quos gladiis nequeunt , voto interfic●ant . f c●eanit lo●cem . de vitibus humanis , de libero arbitri● p●it a●tem pelagius ●onachus , & mo●●●●ot tant severa disciplina gubernabet , ut in magna esset apud omnes anctoritate , ita ut augustinus 〈…〉 eltores ips●us refutivit . nec tam le●e ●uit certamen : illi qui pelagij partes defenden●es susurperunt , non ●●erunt obscuri vi●i 〈◊〉 in adolescen● i● jam scriptis darus the●ae . 〈◊〉 episcopus catupani● opinione 〈…〉 habebatur , & tempore farnis 〈…〉 erroganit in pupones , un●e plurisnos ●● mobiles ; & deligio fos sibi , adju●●it . et sulpitius se●en●● mag●● 〈…〉 dagio sed●●● in et● exflane . epistolae prosperi &c hilarli ad aug●●tinhen ●in quibus 〈◊〉 quod multi qui primo sacerdotii_honore supereminebant , augusti●●m 〈…〉 , quasi ●●ne ca●sa nimis essec veheness , & causon turnis acriter age●● . i 〈◊〉 ipsos etiam augustini ●●ditores , no a 〈◊〉 doctri●●● ejas de hoc loco 〈◊〉 & destre accipiebant . vide ●iplan g melch. adam . vita luth. p. . h freder . spanhemil diarribe hist. de orig . progres . sectis & ●nomin . anabaptistarum . i blasphemiae sunt cibus & sagin● mihi : major est mihi & tir●or in laudibus , gaudium verò in maledictis & blasphem●is . k mihi ●atis est●si christo domino meo & suis sanctis placuero : diabolo & suis squamis invisum me esse ex animo laetor , & gratias ago deo meo ; luth. inc●es magis mihi placeo , & superbus fio quod video nomen pessimu● mihi crescere . luth. tantis enim convinis virum bene de se merlitum one rare neb●lo non dubitavit , ut apologia satisfacere fratribus habuerit necesse , melch. adam , vit . zuingli● , p. . melch. adam . vita calvini , p. . , . bezae apologia pro calvino convitiatore . ●og● moderatissimos istos homfries , quibus nimis , in calesceres tid●●tur quicu●que 〈…〉 no●●●igent , ut pro quo , & in quem dicatur , prelo acie●●tius expendant , neque hero●●c sistes spirieps o● iugenio ●●o meti●mur . noc de●retum quum esset calvi●● 〈◊〉 , cere● , inquir si hominibus servivissem , mala mihi acrees per ●olveretur , ●ed b●n● est qu●od ●● inservi●i ; qui nunquam non 〈◊〉 , suis rependit quod semel pro●isit . 〈◊〉 est quod ch●is●o ●ino & notio , qui●suis lucrum est in 〈◊〉 & orte . * coloi●a● is ex she 〈◊〉 o● all quisus c●n●bus galvini nomen imponer●●t ; alii calvinum in carn●o●● transformatent ; non pau●l islios oc●o abstinere se à coena domini testabantur . vita calvini à beza . l luth. epist. ad spalatin . quantò illi insu●gunt poten●i●● , tantò à nic videntur securi●s : sta●utum est apud me nolle quicquam in hac re timere , sed omnia contemnere . notes for div a -e ames . med. theol . lib. . cap. . a gods eye on his israel . b disswasive from the errours of the time . c heresiography . d rise , raign , and downfall of the familists . the dippers dipt , doctor faeatly . a brief discovery of familisme . a sentent . quorund●m past. eccles. in gallia , de pace eccles. inter evang ▪ pro●uranda . nos in hac causa etiam a●que etiam cavendum existimamus : nempe ne iis qui the ▪ sin aliquam ●uentur , ea omnia tribuamus , quae nobis ex ea consequi v●derentur , secundùm , rectam disserendi rationem . fit e●im saepenuraero , ut qui principium tenet ex quo aliquid concluditur , idem tamen id nesciat quod ex eo colligitur . a mundus non potest ferre ut sua damuentur : igitur ex omni parte odia , insidiae , calumniae , maledicta congeruntur ad opprimendam hanc doctrioam & edoctores hos . t m. colemans brotherly examination re-examined , pag. grants , that in our present times monsters of errours do arise , and opinions that the world never heard of before . c considerat . quarund . controvers . a guliel . apoll. vide epist. ad synod . lond. iudicent conscientia vestrae , quomedo omne haeresium genus inultum permitti , multifaria schismatum semina impune spargi , & profans errorum dogmata passim in vulgus proferri p●ssint in illa civitate , quae tam expresso , sancto & sacro sa●ram , lese coram deo devinxit ad omnes errores , haereses , schismata ● d●●o dei ejiciendos . vide ibi plura . c new england at such a distance knowes not so well the nature of the asembly , and therefore speaks so of it , out of zeal against our errours . d new englands lamentation , for old englands present errours . a printed letter of m. shepards . c lutherus in epist. ad g●lat . maledicta sit charitas quae servatur cum jactura doctrinae fidei , cui omnia cedere debent , charitas , apostolus , angelus é caelo . d this present parliament having often declared in their declarations , their resolutions to hazard all for the safety of the reformed religion and doctrine of faith . a theodoret. haeret. fabul . lib. . cap. de ario. b codex canonum eccles. african● . . can. a christoph. justello . sunt enim plerique conspirantes cum plebibus propriis , quas decipiunt , ut dictū est , earum scalpante● aures , blandi ad seducendum viriosae vita homines , vel corte in flati , & ab hoc consortio separati , qui putant propriae plebi incubandum , & nonnunquam converti ad concilium venire detractant : sua forte ne prodaneur flagitia metuentes . the words in the greek are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are mere significant , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , properly signifying absurdities and unusuall novelties . bonum non est contrarium bono , sed tantum malo , at malem contrariatur & bono & malo . verum est unum , mendacium vero multiplex . of the scriptures , vide the third printed letter , or also a coppy of ● articles in a ms. pamphlet intituled pilgrim . of saints , by . lawr. clarckson . pilgrim . of saints . of god. vide book intit . comfort for beleevers . pig . . vide a short declaration of the assembly of divines against it . b the first branch of this errour is verbatim in bloody tenet . in the preface . d last part hath been spoken by some eminent sectaries . d. stewait second part of depl . to m.s. pag. . m. bail. diswasion from errours of the time . vide proof of this in the first letter . of christ . vide full proof of this , in the narration of stories . vide proof of this in the first letter , and in the fourth letter , and in another , m.s. proof of this is , in articles given in against on thomas webb , and in the third printed letter . vide ●irst printed letter for proof . a paul hobso● serm. christ the effect , ●ot the cause of the love of god , p. . vide animad on the letter whi●h will satisfie the reader , how christ is both the fruit and the cause of gods love ; and these errors in such ignorant mechanicks as hobs●n , arise from not being able to distinguish the causes of c●● iusti●●cation and salvation . the first and supreme cause , is the undeserved grace and favour of god ; the moving and meritorious cause , is redemption and reconciliation purchased by christ ; the instrumentall cause whereby the same it imputed , is the bloud of christ ; the finall , is the glory of god in the declaration of his ri●hteousnesse and faithfulnesse . b vide fourth letter proof . l p●ul hobs●●s sermon ic●it . christ the effect , not the cause of the love of god. pag. . of the spirit of god , and of sanctification . r into this op●io● some of the anabaptists are fallen , and have separated from their churches upon it . e of adam and mankinde . this was preached in a house , and the preacher said , this was a mystery 〈◊〉 all the gospel was . book intit . a vindicati●n of free-grace , against m ▪ iohn goodwin . of the morall law , iustification , faith , repentance , good work● , m. gatak . gods eye on isr. pref . m. gataker gods eye on israel . pref . gatak . ibid. gatak . gods eye on his israel , preface to the reader . article . septem . . . gatak . gods eye on israel , preface to the reader . denn . man of sin discovered , pag. of man after this life ; of the s●ul ; resurrection from the dead , heaven and hell . of the church , gospel , ministry and sacraments . pilgrimage of sa●nts , and ms. * but the apostle peter tels us , pet. . , , ● . we have a more sure word o● pro●hecie , whereunto ye do well that ye take ●●ed , &c. spiritus sanctus non est sceptic●● ▪ nec dabia aut opi●iones in cordibus nostri scrips●t , sed assertiones , ipsa vita , & omni experien●is certiores ac firmiores , luther●s . confess ▪ of faith of anabapt . arc●● . pilgrimage of the saints . pilgrimage of saints . vide doore of truth opened , in answer to truth shut out of doors , page . this is as false as any doctrine that is preached in rome . compasse santarit● page , . of preaching and hearing , of praying , singing of psalmes , of the christian sabbath , or lord●-day . d this opinion begins to spread much , as a godly minister told me of his own k●owledge , know●ng them who vented it , many refusing to joyne with him in prayer● , in a publike assembly , where h●e came to preach , upon this ground , and requiring scripture of him to prove it . and some begin already in the publike churches to leave off all praying , only speak and discourse to the peo●le . c this hath been lately practised in ▪ london among some of the sectaries . of church government . compass . samarit . pag. . . f revel . . the great city was divided into three parts and states and branches of it , begin with p. in . popery . prelacy . . paul h●●sons discovery of truth , pag. . of revelations and miracles . of the civil magistrate . g queries of highest consideration in epist. to the parliament . an●nym . ans. to m. prins . . queries , p. . as the grounds of independent government attribute nothing to the magistrate in church affairs , further then the magistrate is a member of their churches and assemblies : so no people under heaven ascribe more unto magistrates then the independents in civill matters . h door of truth opened p. . i m. borroughs , heart divis . p. . animadversion upon this errour . this is an errour destructive to the power of civil magistrates and safety of common-wealths in divers cases , and in many instances that may be given ; to give one for the present , a church may not according to m. burroughs principles excommunicate a member , who out of conscience is not satisfied of subjects taking up arms against armies , raised by a prince , nor of the lawfulnesse of such a war , and therfore declines and refuseth both bearing arms , all maintenance to such armies , and all assistance to them , disswading others also , and that out of conscience only ( 〈◊〉 ●e prosesses ) and yet the parliament i think hath sequestred many upon such occasions , taken their estates ; and many independents of mr. burroughs judgement have been forward sequestrators , selling & buying their goods , and holding their lands at reasonable rates ▪ but in the tra●●ate i intend not so much a formall refutation , as a recitation and discovery : but of this false principle , and others in m. burr . book , i shall speak more upon occasion of answering the gro●●d● brought for pretented liberty of conscience , whereas this , so others of m. burroughs principles and rules about toleration will be found both unsound and weak , fit to take women and weak people with , but not to satisfie ●ny scholar● . d vide englands bir●hright , p letters printed upon li●burns imprisonment , englands lamentation . ●la . p. . vide three letters printed . e vide miltons doctrine of divorce . of marriage and of parents and children . of warre , and of fighting and killing . these three last errours vented in a book called , a true vindication of the generall redemption of the second . one●atte ●atte , printed . book intit . a heavenly conference for sions saints , by iohn turner , printed in the year , . book intit . the fulnesse of gods love , printed , pag. . fulnesse of gods love manifested . pag . fulnesse of gods love manifested , pag. ▪ . fullnesse of gods love manifested . pag . . arreignment of persecu●ion , pag. . this best with his manuscripts were sent up last summer , and is by the parliament committed to the gate-house . heresiography or descr●t . of heret . and sectaries . an independent minister in a church here in london , prayed these words following . * it vvas the first position of many vvell-affected citisens , for setling the government , subscribed by manie hands , but not presented . in septemb. last . * this praier vvas the next lecture after mr. iohn goodvvin vvas put by coleman-street . it vvas upon the great prevailing of montrosse . practises of the sectaries . * aug●st . lib. . contra parmen . l. ● . de baptismo contra donatistas , lib. . contra petil. * august . contra parmen , contra literas petillian . * august . contra petilian . * august . lib. . contra parmen . * august . contra parmen * august . contra literas petil. vide lit. guil. apoll. & respons . * lib. . de bapt. contra donat. lib. . de baptist . * book inti● . the ancient bounds or lib. of consc. a title page . b synopsis purior . theolog . disput . de magist. . sect. , . a vide m. rob. answ . to m. good. doct. of ●ustif . cleared , pag. , p. . b vide m. prynns truth triumph●ng over falshood , pag. . the se●st you 〈◊〉 is m. edvvards , wh● maintai●s 〈◊〉 bla●●k against you thorou●out 〈◊〉 treatisse . a good innocencies triumph . out of my antapol . . the tovver of the mag●strate , by vvhich hee punisheth sin , doth not subserve to the kingdome of christ the mediatour ; hee leaues ; 〈◊〉 that which follows in the same sentence , there being no fullpo●t , that he may apply efficaciously to the elect , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the p●ophe●icall and priestly office of christ ; hee doth not affect the invvard man and conscience vvith spirituall punishment , &c. vo●● select , disput penes quos sit potestas ecclessiastica . thes. thes. . thes. vide●lius de episcopat . constant. magni , pag , ● , , ● , . vide voet. thes. . de potest . eccles. & vedel . de episcop . const. magni . post habitam synodum dordraicam etiam libelli longè aliorum stilo scripti sunt , quin● & potestatem hanc non parum limitant ac contrahunt , quam tamen tam liberaliter ante hac admensi erant . these things i speake not of all the bishops that were , nor of all men that were of that judgement , there being some orthodox , learned , painfull , pious men , that approved not those wayes , but of the faction . * lilb . innocency and truth justified , pag. . i conceive i may justly say , without breach of their priviledges , that i have unjustly dealt with in my late imprisonment , to be imprisoned so contrary to the known and declared lawes , i have been without either cause showne , or a legall triall . vide pag. . p. . but you will say , the house of commons is not at leisure , by reason of the publike : i answer , lesse then an houres time will serve my turne in this particular , and it is very strange , in five yeares space , so much time cannot be found from the publike to transmit my businesse ; sure i am they can finde time enough to settle great and rich places upon some of themselves , and to enjoy them , notwithstanding their own ordinance to the contrary : yea & i know some of them at this day , hath plurality of places , & i say the thing i desire of them , is more justly my due then any of their great places are theirs , and therefore i hope they have not had cause to be angry with me for craving justice at their hands , being it was the end wherefore they were chosen and trusted , and that which they are sworn to do . vide pag. . speaking of some passages in a parliam . declarat . not easily to be forgotten by those that made them , if there be any sparks of honesty in their hearts . pag , . which warrant and commitment ( though made by a committee of the house of common ▪ ) it as illegall at all the rest , and in my apprehension against the very tenour and the true intent and meaning of the petition of right , and expresly against the words of the statute of the of ed. . again pag. . but i have severall times been imprisoned both by the committees and by the vote of the house of commons it selfe , contrary to a knowne law made this present parliament by themselves , against which there is at present no ordinance published and declared by them and the peeres for the cognizance of : ergo , i say they are tied in justice , according to the tenour of this law , to give me reparation against those persons that were chiefe instruments , either in committees , or in the house of commons it selfe , to vote and take away my liberty from me , contrary to this law : and for my own part i doe expect my reparation for my late causelesse molestations and imprisonments . pag. i shall freely declare the maine reason which makes me in being true to my liberty and freedome , that in point of honesty i cannot submit to that oath , in that i conceive all lawes and ordinances in such cases as this is , ought to be universall to binde all , and not so restrictive as the additionall ordinance of accounts is , which exempt● peeres , members of the house of commons ; for my part i iudge my selfe as free a man ( though otherwise i desire not to make comparis●ns ) as any of them , and i conceive i ought not to be in bondage to any law or ordinance that they themselves will not stand to . a theodoret. hist. eccles. lib. . cap. . iulianus primum vetuit , ne galil●i ( sic enim fidei se●vatoris nostri consecratos nuncapabat ) poeticam , rhetoricam , aut philosophicam disce●ent . nam nostris ipsorum , in●●it , penni● , ut est in proverbio , percellima● : siquidem nostrer●● scriptorum praefid●● , muniti , contra nos bellum suscipiunt . postea etiam aliam tulit legem , qua mandavit , ut omnes galilaei , id est , christiani , è militia pelle●entur . b iulian the apostata therefore granted a toleratis on of the liberty of perdition ( as austin call● it ) because he did hope by that meanes to destroy christian religion , august epist. . iulianus , inquit , desertor christi , & inimicus , haereticis libe●tate● perditionis permisit , et tunc basilica● haeretics ●ed sidi● , quando templa demoniis : eo nodo ●●tans christianum nomen posse perite 〈…〉 verita●e ecclesiae de qua laps●●●ut●a● invide et , et sacrilegas dissersiones libetas esse 〈…〉 pe●m eteret pr●teol . elench haeretic . pag. . iulianu● areti●●●●thoren et ducem haeresis 〈◊〉 et ●onstan●i sententia damnatum , et in ●tlium actum , pe●●uam benignis literis revocavit , et publica vectura reduxit : episcopo : sub constantio exilio mulctatos rerocavit , et in urbes suas redire permisit . atque id ille non miserico●dia fecit , sicut colligere est , sed ut epis opos inter se committens ad intestinu● armaret bellum , et suis ipsa dissidiis ecclesia labefacta●c●ur . the emperour valens did grant freedome of religion to all heretick● , yea and heathens , but was a great enemy to the orthodox theodore● . hist. eccles lib. cap. . valens impunitatem conce●●it : gentilibus , ●udaeis , et aliis quibus que ●ui nomen christianum sibi assumenses doctr●●am evangelio repugnantem praedicabant : sol● autem apostolicae doctrinae propugnatoribus ty●annus iste se h●stem praebuit . * the sectaries , though they make but a fifth or sixth part of the army , and the noble generall who commands all , free from any touch of sectarisi●e , yet we see how insolent some of them have been of late , bearing themselves upon the army , talking of that upon all occasions of setling church government , what would they do if they had an army wholly of their own way , and a commander in chiefe according to their owne hearts ? a person of worth , who was present at the opening of the letters , and named to mee the gentleman to whom such news was writ told it me . moderate intellig. numb . . from ian. to the . a i never justified that wicked oath ex officio , as mr. burton . mr. calam. iust. and necess apologie , against an ujust lnvective of mr. burtons , pag. , . b d. holms : i write not this to commend or prefer my selfe before others , but because many sectaries to blast my preaching and writing from doing good , have given out falsly to many , that i was a great time-server , and a great man for the bishops and their wayes , using that as an argument not to heed what i write or preach : i therefore thought it necessary to say thus much for the undeceiving of many who know mee not . and had i ever learned the art of time-serving , i should not have writ such a bo●k as this , nor preach as i do , but would rather turne sectarie , ●or at least comply with them , and so i might be a creature and a darling of these times . notes for div a -e a adversus ●aereses . b ad quod vult deum . c de haeresibus . d h●reticarum fabularum . e contra libertinos anabaptistas , servetum . f de haeresibus . notes for div a -e * pag. , . of this present book ; and that , pag. . notes for div a -e a a word more to mr. edwards pag. . sir , untill i perceive the contrary , i cannot but hope that i have prevailed something with you towards a change of your mind , and that you have begun to repent you of the evill you have done by publishing your book entituled the gangraena . notes for div a -e saltmarsh flowing of christs bloud . pag. . * the new converts ( as it seems by the relation here ) make a feast for the church , and the dipper upon their entrance into is by dipping , and are then admitted to that they call the lords supper . * this commander is not in the service of the west , belonging to any of the regiments of that army , under the command of sir thomas fairfax , but his command is in another part of the kingdom . * we see the liberty of conscience sectaries will give , if they had power . the relation followes after attested by the hands of witnesses . * all kind of unlicenced books , that make any wayes for the sects , and against presbyterians , are sold at his shop , and t is given out the man●●els them , but not the master . * an anabaptisticall emissary * observe here both blasphemy and scoffing of the parliament in a high manner . * of the name of the woman , her meetings , with other particulars ●●ent this matter . * a word more to master edwards . observe to what this pretended liberty of conscience brings men , namely , to plead for treason , rebellion , and all kind of wickednesse . * gangraena , pag. ● . * that 's the main subject of both his pamphlets : a whisper in the ear , and , a word more to mr. edwards . * when he was prisoner there , being taken by the cavaliers when they came to branford . reply to cretensis . cretensis pag. . cretensis vide pag. . pag. . * tit. . . the cre●ans are alwaies lyars . * this is a lye in cretensis catalogue , that cosens never said it . cretensis , pag. ● . * vide petition of the lord major , aldermen , and comm●ns of the city of london , presented to the house of peers . jan. . * cretensis pag. . * i professe truly , that i had not read one quarter of the book of yet , nor know whether i shall ever care to read it through or no. and in pag. . i have neither leasure nor opportunity to search to the bottome . * saltmarsh , groans for liberty . * that is proverbially called the thriving side and way , offices , moneys , honors , lands , great places attending upon them ▪ * mr. thomas goodwins sermon call'd the great interest of state and kingdom , p. . if any man think i am a pleading for a liberty of all opinions , of what nature , and how grosse soever , i humbly desire them to remember that i only plead for saints ; and i answer plainly , the saints need it not . the apostle tells us there are damnable . heresies , so pet. . , and they will soon unsaint them . so that i speaking against the g●ossest errors , and men holding such , in m. tho : goodwins judgement i speak against those who are no saints , but are persons contradistinguished and opposed to saints . quod autem vehementius egovi● , agnos●● culpum , 〈◊〉 culpa est , 〈◊〉 testimonium hoc mihi in mundo reddi in causa dei mirifice gaudeo : atque utinam & ipse deus id testimo●ie in novis●ime die confirmares● ? q●is tum beatior luthero , qui tanti sui saeculi testimonio commendatur , quod veritatis causam , non seguiter neo fraudulenter sed vehementer satis vel potius nimio egerit ? tum ill iud ieremiae feleciter evaserim , maledictus qui facit opus dei negligenter . luthenus de servo arbitrio . this sent up to a parliament man , and a true copy of this given me by a member of the assembly . this letter was written to a member of the assembly , and the whole letter printed verbatim follows afterwards . * praefat. ad eccl. auie acta synod● national , dordr . * wotton de reconcil . par . lib. cap. . pag , . . wotton● de reco●e part . . l. . cap. . quem ego de imputatione opinionis authorem fuisse mihi perswadeo . * master pryns truth triumphing over falshood , epistle dedicat. and in the book where mr. pri● both laies down his passages against the parliament , and confutes fully his justification and pleading for them . * whitaker , second con●ro . de eccles. quaest . . c. p. , . papistici doctores turpes & scelerati sunt & in deli●iis viv●●t omnes à papa summo illorum pontifice ad infimum usque p●r●chum multi non ●aevi modo , sed flagitia etium gravissima inter illos reperiuntur . vide ibi plura . willets synops. second general controversie of the church . quest. . of the notes & marks of the church , pag. amesi bellarm. enervat , de notis ecclesiae . legantur igitur vitae pontificum romanorum , de sanctitatem pontificum . * vid. minors no sentors , pag. . these laws would save that vbiquitary perturber of , sollicitor , and stickler at most of our late elections mr. hugh peters a great de●l of unnecessary , unfiting pains , sollicitation , and abuse of the pulpit , to the peoples great disgust , for his own private lucre , and advancing the designs of his party * vid. independ . rasing their foundation , p , , , , ▪ * this mr. randal is known well to many godly persons , and is a godly man , a schoole-master about stepny , and a minister also , not that randal the antinomian and famili●● . * this letter which cretensis here prints , was written by an apprentise boy , an anabaptist , of ki●●ius church , unto ki●●●●s himself , who belike by himself or some other communicated it to cretensis . * calumny araigned and cast , pag. , & . i could prove ( i say ) by the commission aforesaid , that mr. prynne hath done all these things , on purpose to despite the spirit of god , to defame the gospel , to make the ways of godlinesse and religion hateful to the world , to encrease divisions , to multiply distractions , to bring a snare and evil day upon the parliament , to expose the whole kingdom to ruine and destruction . * master walker , master roborough by wri●ing ; master c●alamie in preaching . * march . three honest godly citizens after supper comming to speak with me , as they were with me cosens came to speak with me , and was brought into the room where these three citizens were and i spake nothing to him nor he any thing to me , but in their hearing , who will testifie this and more . oretens . pag. . this counter-information i had from the mouth of the said cosens himself , and have the particulars under his hand . cosens going to heare mr clare preach . i received a letter last week out of the country subscribed with ●o hands of godly ministers testifying to my work ▪ and earnestly intreating my constant persuance , with a promise that i shall not want what their prayers and endeavours can contrib●●e to that work . a letter from a godly minister cut of warwickshire written thus , m. edwards book does much good here . i have received severall letters from particular ministers in essex bearing witnesse ; and so letters out of kent to the same purpose , and from other places . * the . errour specified in the former part of this book , is in the catalogue of errours contained in the first part of gangraena , which sl●pt me before i was aware : and therefore upon comparing of both together , i put it out , and reckon not that , but make these errours to begin here at number . which otherwise should have been number . * osiander publicè in schola propon●t , nos sola essentiali dei justitia justos esse : essentiali ejus vita vivere vel victuros esse : essentiali ipsius gloria glorificari ; essentiali illius charitate ad diligendum deum & proximum propter ipsuminflammari , & gravissimè errare omnes qui putent aliâ re quam solo uno & vivo deo patre , filio , spiritu sancto nos posse justificari , vivificari , glorificari : & glacie frigidiora docere qui doceant nos tantum propter remssionē peccatorum reputari justos : & non etiam justitiam christi essentialem & divinam perfidem in nobis habitantis , vit . osiand . pag. . * the sectaries who call themselves the saints and beleevers , if they have husbands and wives that will not turn sectaries , they may leave their owne because they are unbeleevers , and joyne themselves to other womens husbands , and other mens wives : i read in a letter subscribed by w i. and e.i. wi●liam ienny and elizabeth ienny , written out of holland to one in london : deare friends , as you have cast off many antichristian yoaks , so proceed to cast off all , a chiefe vvhereof are unequall marriages . * vide saltmarsh , divine right of presbyterie . * pamph. entit . tender con. relig . affect p. , . do not the synod ( having two ●o●ns like a lamb , but a mouth like a dragon ) teach the parliament to speak blasphemy against those saints that dwell in heaven ? and speaking of the preamble to one of their ordinances , wherein the parliament acknowledged their strong engagements heartily and sincerely to endeavour the compleat establishment of puri●y and u●itie in the church of god ( for these are the parliaments words , not the assemblies ) this book cals this blasphemy , and saith of the lords and commons , for shame leave speaking blasphemy : remember the judgements upon the vvhore for her blasphemie . vvhere had the lords and commons this large commission to meddle in the affaires of king iesus so far , as to determine to have a compleat establ●shment of puritie and unitie ? vide p. . of this present book ' and pag. . * mr. durance an independent preacher at sandwich . * this was spoken in the hearing of three citisens , and given mee under the hand of one that heard it , who also told this smart he would make it publike . the presbyterians may do well to take notice , that the sequestration of their estates , and hanging at tyburn , was designed and counted good enough for them , if some independents and sectaries might have had their will. this is the libertie of conscience they must expect when the sectaries grow so strong as to have power to effect it . * a minister out of essex writing up to a minister in london , of a horrid blasphemy , i sent to a minister of that towne , to enforme me of the truth of it , which accordingly be hath . the vvord is so horrid and obscene , that i forbeare to expresse it . this clarkson is spoken of also in this book , p. , . cretens . frontis picio . luther de servo arb. c. . p. . vid. mine animadvers . part . i. pag. . a godly minister who heard it will depose it , if called , and so will many more who heard it . a pamph e●●it . tolora● justified . vide pag. ▪ of this book mr. vvalvvyns speech . * vide pamph entit . letter of advice to the assembly . in case paul best continue in his opinion , his heresie through ignorance , whether is it not possible that god may yet have mercie on him , as hee had on paul the apostle , and in his due time bring him to the knowledge of his truth , as hee did the apostle paul ? vvhether it can be demonstrated before-hand ▪ but that paul best ( what ever his heresie be ) may possibly in gods secret will be ordained to conversion hereafter , as well as paul the apostle 〈◊〉 he was a blasphemer . * baleu● de roman pontificum actis●vita leon. decim . & iul. teri . quantum nobis ae nostro coetui pro●uerit ea de christo fabula , satis est saeculis omnibus notum . tum iulius : si voluit deus usque adeo propterunum pomum irasci , ut ejiceritprimos parentes ex paradiso : curnon liteat mihi , qui sum ejus vicarius , irasci propte● pavonem , cùm multò major res sit pavo quàm pomum ? schismatici non sunt longaevi . nulla haeresis unquam , &c. * vide car●w . in locum , quamobrem illud statuamus , eos , qui se effe● unt , dejectos iri , & decasuros , etiamsi vertice coelum atrigerint : unde nostro proverbio jactatur ; pride will have a fall . antapol p. , . vide independ . razing their owne foundation pag. , . * the declaration of the kingdom : of england and scotland , by the honourable houses of the parliament of england and the honourable convention of estates of the kingdome of scotland , in the year . page , ● . a mr. prins discoverie of prodigious nevv lights , shewes some sectaries boasting of their friends in the house of commons . b some sectaries have said it to some who have told it me , that there is never a committee about london , but they have some friend or other in it , that as soone as any of them is in question , gives them notice of it , and of the articles against them , and acquaints them with the state of things . quod autem ad veritatem doctrinae spectat , ubi castior & integrior , vel in universo terrarum orbe ▪ totus papatus hic jugulatur : anabaptistae , antitrinitarii , arriani , & hujusmodi monstra , excitata rursum ab inferis , partim in germania , partim in transylvania , nusquam ac●orem hostem invenerunt : quid etiam non tentaverit ut germanicis eccles●is errores suos evelleret ? brightman . in apocalyp . pag. . in antitypo , iudaeisunt quotquot ertoribus implica●i , sibi unis veritatem , fidem , salutem , promissiones dei arrogant , nihil nisi templum , templum crepantes ; quales fuerunt arriani episcopi sub constantino , constantio , & valente . vide plura , brighton . pag. ● . vide bright●n , in loc . pag. . vide brightman●um in apocalyp . pag. . * hieron . in epist. ad titum cap. . vi● esse schisma ullum quod non aliquam confingat haeresim ut ab ecclesia meritó recessisse videatur . quicunque enim labit●r in errorem aliquem , & ab unitate ecclesiae se divelli nunquam patitur , ille error in eo esse poterit hoeresis materialiter , non formaliter ; non enim in eo est pertinacia , qui ecclesiailli adhaeret , a● qua para●us est docerl . m. antonius de dominis de republ. eccles. l. . c. . august coatralit . petil. lib. . schisma omnia scelera s●pergreditur . * optatu● lib. . distantiam esse delictorum , aut remissio testatur , aut paena , & quod in sacrilegos & parr●cidam non secerat , in s●ismaticos ●ect . august . epist. . qui fecerun● idolum usitata gladii morte perempti sunt , qui vero schisma facero volnerunt , matu terra principes devorati , & turba consentien● igne consumpta est : diversitate paenarum , diversitas agnoscitur meritorum . vide new annotations on matt. ● . * calv. in psal. . adde quòd inanis sapientiae f●ltus q●o turgent eos quid re●●on sit dis●ere non patitur . quum eos jubet intelligentiá esse praeditor ; oblique fals●m prudentia confidentium in ipsis persiringit . ergo quansumuis sibi placeant mundi principes in suo ocumine , sciamus eos pla●e desipere , dene● fiant humiles christi discipuli . * gerb. de magistratu politico , sect. . tuncuerò christo serviunt , ipsamque osculantur , si non ipsi soluin doctrinam christi recipiunt , ac fide amplectuntur , sed etiam potestate divinitùs sibi data hoc efficiunt , ut puritos doctrinae in ecclesia conservetur , idololatriae & falsi cultus aboleantur , lupt ab ovisi dominico arceantur , ministri ecclesiae comm●de alantur , &c. * aug. epist. . et quibus dictum est , servite domino in timore ; & c. ? nonne regibus ? at quonam modo serviunt dominy reges in timore , nisi ea quae contra domini jussa fiunt , religiosa seueritate prohipendo ? aliter enim eorum quisque servit quia 〈…〉 quia rex est : uam 〈…〉 s●rvit vivendo fideliter ; quia verò rex est , servit leges pracipientes , & connaria prehibentes conven●enti rigore sanciendo . * cal●in in psal. . . pe●i●e de vi● quidem exponunt propter viam perversam , vol s●eleratam vivendi rationem . ahi resolvunt , 〈◊〉 via vestra percat . mihi magis anida diversus sensu● , quod david fere denuntiet , ut ●os intercipiat subitus dei furer , dum se putabant adhue , esse in medio sladio : scimus enim ut dei contempteres sibi in secunda fortun● llandi●i seleant , & quasi in la●● campo se 〈◊〉 . non a●s re 〈◊〉 minatur propheta , quum dixerin● ; ●ax & securitas , se procul 〈◊〉 siue suo putantes , repentino interitu 〈…〉 . * calv. n psal . per adverbium nune , significat mature illis esse res●pèscendum , quia non semper eadem dabitur oppertunitas . a scult . annal. dec. ● . melch adam . vit . musculi , pag. . musculi loci commun . de haeresi , pag. . iohannes gaster . anabaptistarū doctor quem in còlloquio ambiosins glaureus eslingae in viam reduxit . scultet . annal. dec. . b vide letter pag. , . of the second part of gangraena . * these persons have been with me and what i write , i had from their owne mouths and relations , as many others also have had . igitur scelestus & blasphemus est eorum error , qui sic ab hac ecclesia deficiunt , quasi hinc christus exularet prorsus nec ulla spes salutis manentibus esse posset . cogitent hic christum convivantem cum suis. an pudebiteos illic discumbere , ubi vident christum non pudere ? an illo sanctiores & mundiores erunt ? sed quare se non convincunt suo ipsorum usu ? non possunt inficiari quin prius in christum crediderint , quam secerunt à nobis divortium ; unde haec fides ? annon ex praedicatione in nostra ecclesia ? nunquid autem praedicare quis potest nisi mittatur , rom. , , &c. quamobrem redire ad unitatem ecclesiae , quae vos genuit & aluit . si fugiatis hunc christum , qui cum electis in nostris cae ibuscaenat , ac eos vicissim excipit , profecto nulquam invenietis . sanitatis mentem precor illis ut ad veritatem redeant , quo fugiant sup , licium quod desertores manet . * let us now reach forth our hearts and hands unto our brethren of sea land , let us come up fully unto this our ingagement , and rejoyce in it , for certainly that nation is a nation that god doth love , a nation that god doth honour , and by those many expressions of his love , sheweth that he doth intend to make them speciall instruments of the great things he hath to doe in this later age of the world . it is a nation that is united the most firmly of any people under heaven : wee may truly call it a philadelphia ; and brightman ( that famous light in for●er times , , or yeares since ) did parallel the church of philadelphia with the church of scotland philadelphia signifies br●therly love ; vvhen was there ever a nation , such a church that joyned together in such firme covenants as they have done ? had we had that reunion among us , o how great things had we done before this time ! a nation it is that hath ingaged it self to god in a higher way in a more extraordinarie way , then any nation this day upon the face of the earth hath done ; in the most solemne way covenanting with the eternal god , paw●ing sorth their prayers and their tears for joy together with their covenanting : a nation that hath reformed their lives for so smalltime , more then ever any people that we know of in the world have done : and a people that have risen up against antichrist more in another way then ever people have done , and that is the great worke of god in these times . and therefore god certainly hath a love into them , because they breake the ice , and begin the worke , and arise in such a way as they do , for the pulling downe of the man of sin . mr. burroughs speech delivered at guild-hall , pag. , . vide plura . vide scots late declaration i saw some letters written lately from newcastle by english there , as one mr. p. and others , who speak much of the integritie and faithfulnesse of the scots , and that they suffer not a man ill affected to come to court , no not so much as into the towne . heresiography, or, a discription of the hereticks and sectaries of these latter times by e. 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sectaries of these latter times . by e. pagitt . the second edition , with some additions : as in the folio following . math . . . beware of false prophets , which come to you in sheeps 〈◊〉 , but inwardly are ravening wolve● . tim . . . now the spirit speaketh expresly , that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith , giving heed to seducing spirits , and doctrines of divils : speaking lyes in hypocrisie , having their conciences seared with a hot ir●n . imprimatur . j ▪ a. cranford . london , printed by vv. wilson , for iohn marshall and robert trot , and are to be sold at their shops in corn-hill , over against the exchange , and under the church of edmond the king in lombard street ▪ . the names of the sects ; viz. anabaptists , page . brownists , . semi-separatists , . independents , . familists , . adamites , . antinomians , . arminians , . socinians , . antitrinitarians . . millenaries , . hethringtonians , . anti-sabbatarias , . traskites , . jesuites , . muncerians , . apostolikes , . separatists . . catharists . enthusiasts . liberi . hutites . augustinians . bewkeldians . melchiorites . georgians . menonists . pueris similes . servetians . libertines . denkians . semper orantes . deo-relicti . monasterienses . plunged anabapt . . barrowists , . wilkinsonians , johnsonians . ainsworthians . robinsonians . lemarists . . castalian familists , grindletonians . familists of the mourtains . . of the valleyes . scattered flocke . caps order , &c. the addition . the sum ●f a treatise of m● johnsons ▪ a-against anabaptists . of the pelagins . soule-sleepers . denyers of the scriptures . expecters or seekers . divorsers . of the papists . the papists compared with other hereticks . a postscript . an extract of the acts of the national synod of the reformed churches of france to the right honourable thomas atkin , lord major of the citie of london , and to the right worshipfull , sir nicholas raynton . isaac penington , lievtenant of the tower , sir lo : woollaston , iohn glyn recorder , sir iohn cordell , sir thomas soame , sir iohn gayr , sir iacob garrat , thomas adams , io : warner , iohn tous● , abraham reynardson , sir george garra● , sir george clerke , iohn langham , th●mas andrewes , iohn foulke , iames bunce , william gibbs , and richard chambers sheriffes : samuel warner , w●lliam barkely , thomas foote , iohn kendricke , thomas culh●m , simon edmonds , aldermen of the said citie . right honourable , and right worshipfull , whereas i have lately published a christianography , or a description of many great churches of christians in the world : some of which are for extent , larger then the church of rome in europe , for time more ancient , for succession as continual , for faith more sound : who believe with us the church of god to be catholike , as it is in the apostles creed , and not as it is set downe in the new trent creed confined to rome , who renounce the popes supremacie , some of them excommunicating him for a schismatick and heretick . who receive the holy communion in both kindes , they all drinke of christs cup , and abhor the romish decree , made contrary to christs institution . who make no images to be worshipped . who doe not acknowledge the figment of purgatory , nor use any prayers to be delivered from the fained paines thereof . who have their prayers in their owne tongue , and mutter them not in latine as the romists doe . who forbid not marriage ( the prohibiting of which is called by st. paul , the doctrine of divells . ) their priests may and doe marry . who hold not popish transubstantiation . who prohibite not lay-men the reading of the holy scriptures commanded by christ himselfe . who doe not joyne with christs intercession the suffrages of saints : nor with his justification the merit of workes : nor with the satisfaction papall indulgences . these points with some others , which the ambition and avarice of the romists hath lately hatched , they renounce with us . this worke i purposing to perfect and consummate to the glory of god , the great profit of the church , & establishing of mens consciences , they seeing the unity and agreement of the holy churches in the world with us : behold suddenly a numerous company of other hereticks stole in upon us like the locusts , rev. . as the unpure familists who blasphemously pretend to be godified like god , whereas indeed they are divellified like their father the divell . the illuminated anabaptists who blasphemously affirme the baptisme of children to be the marke of the beast , and to come from anti-christ . the donatisticall brownists , who in times past hid themselves in holes ; now lift up their heads , and vent openly their errors , infecting our people . the antinomians , who teach as i find , such a faire and easie way to heaven , viz. that a man need not be troubled by the law before faith , and that faith is not a going out of himselfe to take hold of christ , but onely a discerning that christ is his , and that after this , such a man must see nothing in himselfe , have nothing , doe nothing , need no sorrow nor repentance , nor bee pressed to duties , need never pray unlesse moved by the spirit : if hee fall into sin , never the more disliked of god , nor his condition the worse : and that hee must abide in the height of comfort , though hee fall into grosse sin . the novelty of this doctrine takes so well , or rather ill that multitudes of simple men and women dance after their pipes , they run after these men as if they were mad , crowding the churches , filling their doors and windowes . the independents trouble also our poore church , who pretend that they have a perfect modell of church● government , which almighty god hath revealed to them , which many like better then the government of the reformed churches , being perswaded that in independency they may have liberty to doe what they list , having no government , hoging to be as free as their teachers , who will have none at all . the arminians also an after-brood of the pellagiant , broach their erroneous opinions . the sabbatarians affirm the old jewish sabbath to be kept , and not the lords day . the anti-sabbatarians would have no perticular sabbath at all , but every day to bee a sabbath to a christian man. the traskites , who would have us observe many jewish ceremonies . vve have also millenaries who affirm that before the day of judgment christ shal come down from heaven , and reign with the saints upon earth . years , in which time they shall destroy all the wicked , binding their kings in chaines , and nobles in linkes of iron . vvee have hetheringtonians , who hold a hodg-podg of many heresies , troubling our peoples brains . vve have also socinians , who teach that christ dyed not to satisfie for our sins : and also his incasnation to be repugnant to reason , & not to be sufficiently proved by scrip●ture , with many other abhominable errors . wee have arians , who deny the deity of christ. we have an atheistical sect , who affirme that mens soules sleep with their bodies untill the day of judgement . wee have atheists too many , as among others , one was committed by a justice of peace , who mock'd and jear'd at christs incarnation . his father was burnt at thoelouze in france ; he scapeth unpunished among us : too many others we have . they preach , print , and practise their hereticall opinions openly : for books , vide the bloody tenet , witnesse a tractate of divorce in which the bonds are let loose to inordinate lust : a pamphlet also , in which the soul is laid asleepe from the houre of death unto the houre of judgement , with many others . yea , since the suspention of our church-government , every one that listeth turneth preacher , as shoo-makers , coblers , button-makers , hostlers and such like , take upon them to expound the holy scriptures , intrude into our pulpits , and vent strange doctrine , tending to faction , sedition , and blasphemie . what mischiefe these sectaries have already done , we that have cure of soules in london find and see with great griefe of heart : viz. our congregations forsaking their pastors ; our people becomming of the tribe of gad , running after seducers as if they were mad ; infants not to be brought to the sacrament of baptisme ; men refusing to receive the holy communion , and the lords prayer accounted abhominable , &c. a volume will hardly contain the hurt that these sectaries have in a very short time done to this poore church ; and doth not the common-wealth suffer with the church ? whence are all these distractions ? who are the incendiaries that have kindled & blown this fire among us but these ? considering with my selfe the former happinesse of this kingdome , and the sudden change that is betide it , it being fallen from the height of prosperitie to the lowest ebbe of misery , and this not by the incursion of a forreigne nation , but by its owne children , who imbrue their hands in the bloud one of another with no lesse inhumanity then cannibals or men-eaters , without any reluctation at all ; the sonne against the father , and the father against the son , being involved in a most cruell warre without any hopes of peace . and moreover ( which is worst of all ) when i consider that some of our clergy-men ( who should like moses stand in the gap to appease gods anger ) doe increase the same , not onely by blowing the fire , but by their errors and schismes which they broach and foment among us ; by which they doe as much as in them lyeth to put mens soules in as great danger as their bodies . and considering againe how wee are involved in a most cruell warre without any hopes of peace , may not i cry out with the prophet ; o that my head were full of water , and my eyes a fountaine of teares , that i might weepe for the slaine of my people ! but all this being gods permitting , let us with patience possesse our souls ; let us trust in him , depend upon him , and in his good time hee will deliver his church , and turne all to the best ; and in the meane season every man doe his best to quench this fire . for my own part , these sad considerations made me leave my christianography , and write an he●●siography to describe the hereticks and schismaticks of this time , in which i set downe their beginning among us ; their hereticall opinions and errors , confuting them ; and also relate how other princes and common● wealths have suppressed them , and how severely some of them have beene punished among us . i know my reverend brethren have not beene wanting to oppose these hereticks in writing and preaching , in season and out of season , using all meanes to suppresse these heresies , having to that end chosen speciall men to preach several lectures in severall places ; but without your helpe and the assistance of our religious patriots assembled in parliament , they doe , and will increase upon us doe what we can . this treatise i present to your lordship , and to this honourable senate . what can bee more sutable or fitter for you , servants of the most high god , then that which tendeth to the glory of god , edification of his church , and vindication of the truth against the illusion of sectaries and heretikes ? what is more correspondent with the duty of christian magistrates then to assist gods cause with your politicall authority ? a question may be asked whether it be lawfull for the magistrates to use the sword against heretickes ? to this i answer ; such whose heresies are blasphemous in doctrine , or dangerous to the state , deserve death , the reason is , because they corrupt the faith . if such as poyson waters and fountaines at which men and beasts drinke , deserve capitall punishment , how much more they that as much as in them lyeth goe about to poyson mens soules ? yea , st. augustine saith in his fifth tractat upon iohn ; quantum in ipsis est christum in homine occidunt . the forenamed st. augustine indeed wavered concerning this point for a time , as he confesseth in one of his epistles : but when he saw the city wherein he dwelt was reclaimed from donatisme by the magistrates sword , he retracted his opinion . and expecting the like successe in this honourable city , i doe implore your helps , & that for iesus christs sake : and i pray you give me leave to put you in mind of the covenant we made in the presence of almighty god the searcher of all hearts , with a true intent to performe the same , as wee should answer at that great day , when the secrets of all hearts shall bee disclosed , viz. that we should in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of popery , prelacy , superstition , heresie , schisme , propha●enesse , and whatsoever shall bee found to be contrary to sound doctrine and the power of godlinesse , lest wee partake in other mens sins , and thereby be in danger to receive of their plagues ; and that the lord may be one , and his name one in the three kingdomes . and this i beseech you in the name of god to take in hand , laying aside all humane reasons . let not gods cause goe to racke , nor by worldly policies and humane reason be protracted or retarded . the turke will not suffer mahomet to be blasphemed : as we are christians let us stand for christ. how dangerous the fostering of heretikes hath been , histories declare , viz. almighty god sent down fire from heaven and consumed antioch , being a nursery of heretikes : and also how the earth opened & swallowed nicomedia , the meeting place of the blasphemous arrians : also in the commentaries of sleidan , how the anabaptists meeting first in conventicles , surprized munster : and how hardly amsterdam escaped them , lambertus hortensius writeth . the plague is of all diseases most infectious : i have lived among you almost a iubile , and seene your great care and provision to keep the city from infection , in the shutting up the sicke , and in carrying them to your pest-houses , in setting warders to keep the whole from the sicke , in making of fires and perfuming the streets , in resorting to your churches , in powring out your prayers to almighty god with fasting and almes to be propitious to you . the plague of heresie is greater , and you are now in more danger then when you buried five thousand a week : you have power to keep these hereticks and sectaries from conventickling and sholing together to infect one another . fire is dangerous , many great cities in europe have been almost ruinated by it : i have seen your dilligence and dexterety in quenching it in the beginning : your breaking open your pipes for water making floods in your streets : your engins to cast the water upon the houses : your industry and paines is admirable . heresie is as dangerous as fire , use your best endeavours to quench it before it consume us . thus not doubting right honourable , & right worshipfull , of your best endeavours to suppresse these heretikes and sectaries , by whom not only many poore soules are infected , but also the holy name of god is blasphemed . i cease , most humbly entreating almighty god to blesse this citie , and to give unto you the fruition of all temporall felicities in this life , and the never-failing fulnesse of blessednesse in the life to come to the reader . thou which hast atender conscience , and desirest nothing so much as to know the right way to heaven , having many doubts which cause thee to leave thy own pastor , and runne not only to other publike congregations , but also to the private meetings of the separatists and others for resolution . for thy sake and safety i have published this treatise , in which thou maist discerne truth from error , having their errors set before thee , with the confutation of them out of the holy scripture . ou● lord and saviour in his holy sermon in the mount , telling his disciples of the narrow way that leadeth unto life , hee specially forewarneth them of false prophets : beware of fals● prophets which come to you in sheeps cloathing , but inwardly they are ravening wolves . as if he should say , my deare disciples , you hearing of the way to heaven , wil be inquiring after it , and especially of prophets ; but let me forewarn you of false prophets , for in stead of directing you , they will put you out of the way . false prophets wil come , they are not sent : st. paul asketh how they can preach except they be sent ? and this standeth with good reason : every true minister standeth in gods room being the lords embassadour to deliver his will , who dare to this unsent ? no man taketh this honour unto himselfe , but hee that is called of god saith my author to the hebrews . but whence come they now , from the schooles of the prophets ? no , many of them from mechannicke trades : as one from a stable from currying his horses : another from his stal from cobling his shooes , & these sit down in moses chaire to mend all , as embassadours of jesus christ , as heralds of the most high god : these take upon them to reveale the secrets of almighty god , to open and shut heaven , to save mens soules . but to heare these fellowes to discourse of the holy trinity , of gods eternall decree and other deep points of divinity : you may heare the mad men in bedlam prate as wisely as they : and are not their hearers that run after them as mad as they ? are they not bewitched ? as st. paul telleth the gallatians . to you that are my disciples : daily experience sheweth us whom the anabaptists , brownists and other sectaries go about to seduce , viz. not drunkards . adultere●s , swearers , and prophane persons whom the devill hath ensnared already , but such as are desirous of heaven . they lead captive ( saith st. paul , ) silly women who are alwaies learning . they come unto you in sheeps cloathing . that is , like zealous and holy christians , for example , the devill turneth himselfe into an angell of light : baals priests used long prayers : the blasphemous arrians ( as st. bazill writeth ) were easily beleeved because of their counterfeit holinesse . the romish seducers pretend great sanctimony ▪ the begging fryers befool'd the christian world with their pretended holinesse , with which they 〈◊〉 their lewd lives . generally they come to you with outward sanctimony , with a seeming contempt of the world ; with long prayers , fasting teares , ●lmes deeds , seeming-zeale , seeming-humi●●●y , seeming harmlesnesse , &c. they come to you in sheepes cloathing , insinuating themselves into you under colour of giving you good counsell : as the divell their chiefe , counselling our first parents to breake gods commandement , promised to make them like god : and tempring christ in the ●●●dernesse , promised to give him all the kingdomes of the world and the glory of them . and that you may the better avoyd their inchantments , i will shew you the method they use in deceiving . as first they indeavour to separate the sheepe from their shepheards , bringing them into contempt with their people , ●ff●●ming them to be unprofitable , unpowerfull , taxing their conversations as prophane , and doctrine as erroneous . thus smiting your shepheards with their tongues , they draw you to their conventicles . . to palliate their errors , they parvert the holy scriptures , as that monster arrius pretended to have places of scripture against the deity of christ , and this he learnt of his father the devill , who perverted part of the . psalme , to tempt our lord to cast himselfe downe from the pinacle of the temple . and for this cause these heretikes are enemies to the ten commandements , being some of the law : to the creed being a briefe of the gospell , and to the lords prayer , being a perfect forme of prayer , containing all that can be asked or prayed against , by which only a simple man may discerne any heretick , contradicting any commandement of the decalogue , article of the faith , & petition of the lords prayer . and for this cause the church of rome teacheth the laity them in latine , and also they leave out part of the decalogue in their catechismes : and for other he●etikes , some doe null the whole law , some the creed , and others the lords prayer , affirming it to be abhominable . againe , whatsoever outward shew they make of holinesse , they are indeed ravening wolves ; therefore our lord biddeth us beware of them . the word beware precedeth danger : as sheep are in danger among wolves , so are your soules in danger among false prophets . the j●urney of the israelites to the earthly canaan , was a type of our journey to the heavenly . and did not one false prophet , balaam , doe them more mischiefe in their journey then og the king of bashan , sehon king of the amorites , & all their enemies besides ? yea , would the devil himselfe in his own likenesse have been more noxious to the church of god then some hereticks have beene ? as one heretick , arrius , denying the deity of christ , in a manner infected the whole world . the like did one other heretick eutyches , erring concerning his humanity , affirming the immensity of christs divine nature to have swallowed up his humane . now if christ had not been man , how could he have dyed for us sinners ? and if not god , how could he have wrought the salvation of mankind ? alas , what danger are we in now , being invironed with such a multitude of here●ickes ? our lord telleth us againe , by their fruits yee shall know them : they pretend that they are led by the spirit . the workes of the spirit s● . paul s●t●eth forth to bee love , joy , peace , long-suffering gentlenesse , goodnesse , faith , meekenesse , and temperance . if they were led by the holy spirit , these would be their characters . but st. paul telleth us that in the latter dayes there shall come men , lovers of their own selves , boasters , proud , cursed speakers , disobedient to parents , unthankefull , unholy : master calvin that admirable man of god , whose name is yet terrible in the kingdome of pope●y , setteth down certaine characters of these impostors , taken out of st. augustine . . great boasters , making ostentation of their owne worth , like simon magus , who bewitched the people , sayng that he himselfe was some great man : like the gnostikes who had a high conceit of their owne knowledge , as if they were the onely knowing men of the whole world : their common talke is of their own worth and actions . . superbia tumidi , blowne up with pride , and among us many proud spirits having not these preferments which they thought themselves worthy of , have forsaken our church , and gone to rome and amsterdam . . calum●ijs insidiosi , deceitfull slanderers : and in this faculty of all other sects the brownists excell : the ●esuites are not so bitter against our church as the separatists compare their writings . michael the arch-angell durst not give the devill such cursed speaking , nor raile upon him as they doe upon us and gods church . . treacherously seditious , not preaching peace as christ commanded his disciples to doe , but division : yea , the brownists arrogate to themselves , the name of separatists , which well they may , be●ng separated from their mother church , from 〈◊〉 the reformed churches , and malitiously divided amongst themselves . . lest they should seem to be destitute of the light of truth , they arrogate to themselves the shadow of austerity and shew of holinesse . . sacri●egious , what the appetite of all schismaticks hath been in this way is notorious , caring no● for the ruine of the whole church , upon condition that they might get somewhat . they have so taught , that some thinke there is no such sinne as sacriledge at all . our lord fore-warning us of false prophets , and so lively describing them , and we having such characters and markes to know them : thou understanding the decalogue , creed , and lords prayer , if thou be misled , thy sin will light upon thine owne head . for is there any man so simple but can ●ell when their doctrines they teach crosse any of these ? and one thing more will aggravate your defection before almighty god , viz. your covenant and oath wherewith you bound your selves in the presence of god , to suppresse all errors , heresies , and schisme ; god forbid but that you should keep your covenant which we ministred , and you received with great alacrity . to draw to an end , epiphanius writeth of the heresies of this time , calleth his booke pae●arium , that is , a medicinable box , containing saving medicaments against lying doctrine . the end of my writing is not to hurt any man , but to give warning to well minded soules , and espesially to them that are entangled with errors , to pray to god to give them grace to see and ●enounce their errors , and to acknowledge the truth , that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil . and if my paines shall do any good in the confirmation of any against seducers , in forewarning them to beware of private conventicles , and to keep them close to the publick ministery of the word , & communion of saints in gods church , i shall thinke my labour well bestowed . the god of peace grant that all they that confesse his holy name , may agree in the truth of his holy word , and live in unity and godly love , amen . so prayeth thine in the lord , old ephraim pagitt . heresiography : or a description of the heretickes and sectaries sprung up in this latter age , &c. chap. i. of the anabaptists . for the discovery of this sect i purpose to set down , . their originall and first proceedings . . their errors and blasphemies . . a confutation of their errors . . the orthodox doctrine of the church of england opposite to their errors . . the severall sects of anabaptists . . of their manner of rebaptizing , and other fashions . . how christian princes & magistrates have suppressed them : and especially how they have beene punished among us . . of their audacious boldnesse at this day to publish bookes in defence of their errors , and to challenge our protestant divines to publike disputations : and to intrude into our pulpits to vent their blasphemies . . their moderne tenents which they owne . . of their originall and first proceedings . about the yeare of our lord god . doctor luther preaching the gospel in saxony , almighty god blessing his labour , a new sect ( among many others through the instigation of the devill ) began to spring up in the said coun●●y of certain fanaticall people , who boasted that they talked with god , and god with them , who commanded them to kill all the wicked , that is , all that were not of their sect , and make a ●ew world , in which the innocent and godly should live and reigne alone . the author of this sect melancton affirmeth to be one nic●las storke , who would tell his followers that god spake to him by an angell , and revealed his will to him in dreames , promising him the place of the angell gabrie● , and the empire of the whole world . he affirmed the saints must reigne in this world alone , and that he must be their leader , to kill all the kings and princes of the wo●ld , and to repurge the church . he tooke upon him also to have the gift of discerning spirits , and to know the elect. in this mans schoole was one thomas muncer brought up , who amplyfied much his masters doctrine . hee b●gan to preach at alsted in turingia , where he made first an a●●ociation , administring an oath to all that promised to assist him in killing the ungodly princes and magistrates : so long as hee preached but his dreames and fancies the elector of saxony bore with him ; but after he b●gan to preach killing of princes and rebellion , he banished him from saxony , who 〈◊〉 to nurenberg , and being driven from thence to mulhus in tu●ingia , to which place divers of his old disciples resorted : whatsoever he determined was received as an oracle , especially when he preached that all goods must be 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 men to be free and of equall dignity an acceptable doctrine in those parts , where the nobility used their tenants like slaves ; upon this his preaching about . bores and trades-men rose up in suevia and franconia , who tooke some of the nobles , r●nsacked , plundered and burnt houses ▪ carrying all before them . muncer also having prepared munition , and raised a numerous multitude ( the meaner sort of people leaving their ploughes and loomes ) armed themselves to become adventurers in this holy war : one phifer a chiefe associate of muncers , rusheth into the countries adjoyning , and destroyed many towns , burnt many houses , and brought away some of the nobles bound , with a great booty ; which good successe elevated the minds of these sectaries and caused a defection in the county of mausfelt : muncer hoping this defection to be universall , taketh his journey to frankhus , where the frankhusians joyned with him . but before this snowball grew greater by rolling , count mansfield raiseth forces , sets upon muncer , and slew . of his men ; muncer renueth his army , pitcheth upon a hill by frankhus intrenched with carts . count mansfield with the princes his assistants pittying the rude company , sent to offer them impunity and generall pardon if they would but yield up the author of that sedition & returne home . muncer falls to preaching , te●ling them that he was sent from god to command and lead them in this action , and that they should certainly overthrow these and all other enemies of god , it being gods promise ( who cannot lye ) that the righteous should wash their feet in the bloud of the wicked ; and that he had promised him victory , indowing him with such strength that he was able to turne all their bullets back with his coat , so the botes refused peace ; upon this the princes began to play upon them with their ordnance , the bores neither advanced nor fled , but fell a singing , come holy ghost , confiding and expecting that god would fight for them from heaven according to muncers promise ; but when the intrenchments of their carts were broken , and the princes army came to handy-blowes , . of them being slain , away fled the bo●es , some one way , some another , but most of them ●o frankhus , which city the princes tooke with muncer who lay hid therein , who with phifer and more were executed and put to death . muncer was so dejected at his death that he could not make confession of his faith ; but with much adoe he could speake after the duke of brunswicke , who taught him what he should say . thus the suevian rebellion was extinguished , the root and branch seeming to be cut off ; but the seeds remaining , germany swarmed with anabaptists , ane● name , but in effect the old sect with some additions . melchior hopman who called himselfe elia , one of greater learning and parts then muncer , began to vent the same errors at stransgburg , for which he was imprisoned , & all his followers severely i●prest . this sect was disperst in the higher and lower germany , especially among the meaner sort of people ; saith hertensius one of my authors , among that numerous rabble scarce one was found that was a scoller , or could write or read . the whole world was little enough for ther ambition which they attempted to obtain , beginning their empire at munster . in the year munster received the gospel , & in the yeare there comes to town iohn becold a taylor of leyden , & with him , or after him a great multitude of his fraternity , most of them hollanders : these keeping conven●icles , got in few months a great party in munster , & incensed one another with desperat● resolutions . the magistrates not yet infected with their errors , commanded the sectaries to depart the city ; they going out●t one gate , came in at another , saying , they must not desert gods cause . the landgrave of hesse pittying the distressed case of this city , sent divines to set a bound to the unlimited extravagancy of the anabaptists , offering disputation to them , which they refused , & took a more compendious way to work their own ends : one of them feigning himselfe to bee seazd with a propheticall spirit , ran about the city crying , repent , & be baptized again , left the wrath of god fall upon you ; many cryed with him , this crying ended in ransacking rich mens houses , & laying hands upon the owners ; others rushed into the market●place crying out , that all that were not re-baptized must be killed presently . the evangelicks or protestants gathered themselvs in a place called over water , & there fortified themselves : after daies there was a composition made , that either party should enjoy the freedome of their religion . this composition gave the anabaptists time to strengthen their party , for they sent their letters to wezell , and other places , the tenor whereof was , that god had sent an holy prophet to munster , who spake wonders , and shewed the right way to salvation ; and if they would leave their houses , and come to munster , they should have ten times more than they left at home , and with spirituall wealth attaine all worldly riches . these faire promises drew the scumme of the towns adjoyning to munster , ( the poore and idle sort liking that religion best , that maketh all men alike , all goods common , that payeth no rent , tribute , nor tithes , that puts downe those lawes and magistrates that restraine their licentiousnesse ) so that in a short time the city was full of strangers , who looked upon it us upon the land of promise . the anabaptists knowing their strength ranne to st. maurice church ▪ burnt it , seized upon the armory , pillaged and defaced other churches , depopulated the colledges , burnt a faire library , and finally drove the protestants out of the city , crying out get yee hence all yee wicked , else yee shall all be slaine . the anabaptists being masters of the city , began to erect a government , ( although they were enemies to all superiority , necessity and nature forcing them to chuse some governours , but the prophets over-ruled all : one of the first orders that they made was , that every man should bring his gold , silver , and goods into the common stock upon paine of death : and there were two maiden prophetesses that discovered the concealers ; also they ordered that all books should be burnt but the bible , which was performed . iohn of leiden being in a propheticall trance after he had slept three dayes , pretending to be dumbe , called for writing tables , in which he writ downe that it was the will of the heavenly father , that twelve men by him named should governe the city , which was also put in execution , the ancient magistrate being discharged . also that it was the good will of the father that a man should not bee tyed to one wife , but to marry as many as he pleased : when some would not approve of this doctrine , he cyted them before the twelve governours , swearing upon the new testament that this doctrine was revealed to him from heaven , and to testifie the evidence of the spirit , hee commanded some of the opposers to be beheaded : forthwith many preachers confirmed this doctrine , but the greatest confirmation was the prophets practise , who presently married . wives , & left not till he had fifteen : many followed his example , and it was accounted a matter of praise to have many wives : after the promulgation of this ordinance , the brethren ran to the hansomest women , striving who should be first served , and lay with them without any contract . after this , one iohn tuscocurer a new prophet , called the congregation together , and declared that it was the will of the heavenly father , that iohn of leyden should be king of the universe ; that he should sit upon the throne of his father david ; that he should kill all the kings and princes , destroy the ungodly , and save the people that loved righteousnesse . this prophesie the multitude entertained , and proclaimed iohn of leyden king of zion with great acclamations . the new king being a tailor , made use of his skill , and translated the copes and carpets of the churches into robes , and set forth his majesty in gold and silver , his horses were also sutably harnessed , with saddles and foot-cloathes embroydered with gold : he rode abroad in very great state , having his chiefe officers before him ; next before him were two young men , the one carrying a bible , the other a sword : he himself wore a great chaine like the collar of some order ; his motto was rex justitiae hujus mundi , the king of righteousnesse of this world . after him followed fifty pensioners well clad : three times a week he kept court , sitting upon a high throne in great magnificence , under him sate knipper dolling governour of the city , and lower , his foure great counsellours of state : in that court he judged all controversies , most of which was about divorces , for by their new orders any man that was weary of his wife , might put her away and take another . among other memorable acts of this new king , i read , that one of his wives offending him , he tooke her into the market-place and cut off her head , causing the rest of his wives to dance about her , and give thanks to their heavenly father , and then the king began to dance himself , commanding the people to dance with him . againe thuscocurer the prophet came to the king sitting in his throne in more than ordinary majesty , saying to him , king iohn , the gospel must be renewed by thee . thus saith the lord god , goe and say to the king of zion , that hee prepare my supper in the church-yard of the great church : and that he send forth preachers of my word into the foure quarters of the world to teach all nations the way of righteousnesse , and to bring them by the spirit of their mouthes into my sheep-fold . so a publike communion was celebrated , which they made a full meale : a great feast it was , both for persons , as also for meat , for there were about foure thousand communicants , and three courses of meat ; but between them ( saith my author ) there was an entercourse , for the king accused a man of treason , and cut off his head and returned againe , and with bloudy hands he tooke upon him to administer the body and bloud of christ , assisted with the queen , who did the office of a deacon , the like did the principall officers of state. after supper the king asked the people , whether they were all heartily disposed to doe gods will , and to suffer and dye for the faith : to whom the people answered with one voyce , that they would . then rose the prophet and said ; thus saith the lord , chuse men among my people to send to the foure quarters of the world , to doe wonders among the nations , and to publish my wondrous things among strange people . then he read the names of . of whom himselfe was one ; these apostles went to the cities to which they were sent , crying in the streets that they should repent , or else shortly be destroyed : these men were apprehended in the cities and put to death , and so there was an end of their apostleship . all this while the city was besieged by count waldeck the owner thereof , and so fore oppressed with famine , that they were faine to ea●e dogs , cats , rats , sodden leather , yea some their owne children . the princes of the empire assembled at coblents , pittying the seduced people , sent letters to the people of munster , representing to them their fault and danger they were in , and that if they did not submit to their naturall prince , they should draw the whole force of the empire upon them : this was about december , , hilversum also one of their prophets being taken by the besiegers , writ out of the camp a most sensible letter to the people of munster , wherein he acknowledgeth that his former prophesies were impostures , and entreated them to open their ●yes to see how they were deluded by a company of rascalls , what a beastly life they lead , having violated all lawes of pudicity and honestie . these letters moved the hearts of many , who were weary of their lives that they lived in , and were also pinched with hunger , and they began to murmour against the king , who calling them together made a fine speech to them , saying that he would never have thought that they being born again by a new baptisme , would shew themselves so impatient for gods cause whereas they should have followed st. pauls example , bearing nakednesse , hunger , and cold to attaine the heaven of salvation : that god was powerfull enough to send them manna and quailes from heaven ? that he had great troops in holland and freezeland , that would certainly come with great provision of victualls and beare the enemy back ? that god had revealed to him that at eafter they should be delivered for certaine . finally , the towne was taken , iune . having endured a siege of eighteen moneths : after the taking of the towne , it was ordered that the innocent people should be spared , and that all the good citizens that were come out or kept in by force , should have restitution of their goods . the citizens that yeelded were spared , but the fierce anabaptists who could never bee tamed , and lay hid in severall holes , were sought out and killed . the king resisted to the last , and being taken with knipperdoling and others , was sent prisoner to a castle , drawne thither , tyed to a horse taile ; hee was condemned and executed as a traitor , being tyed to a stake , and pulled in divers parts of his body with hot pincers for an houre and more , and then stricken to the heart with a dagger : with him suffered knipperdoling . the king abjured his errors ; but knipperdoling dyed like a mad beast : after their deathes they were put into iron cages , and hanged upon the high steeple of st. lambert . thus dyed this imaginary king , and anabaptistrie was suppressed in munster . as the anabaptists had surprised munster , so they had the like projects in many other places , but with ill successe : as one iohn of geles was sent to amsterdam , and finding the people fit objects for his delusions , hee told them wonders of the new kingdome of righteousnesse at munster , their liberty of living , their pillaging of churches , and the inriching themselves with the goods of the ungodly , and of the great designes of their king , of the prophesies of the propagation of his kingdome , with such discourses . in their private conventicles they filled the mindes of the people with a frantick zeale , and made them long to be fing●ing church-plate , and the goods of the ungodly , pretending that it was an easie matter to surprise amsterdam , which town ( with others ) god had given to the king of zion , as the first fruits of his reigne over the world : hereupon they enterprised the taking of the towne , and to kill the magistrates as they were feasting in their towne house ; but by the providence of god they were deceived of their purpose . they wanting their signall , which was the ringing of the towne-bell , which was not done , ( a drunken man having taken away the rope ) the company assembled not : many of the anabaptists were slaine , and others received condigne punishment . the anabaptists after the death of iohn of leyden chose another king , who with his high treasurer was taken at virecht and kept in prison : among the exployts of that elected king , he brought his wife into a wood and there killed her , that without interruption he might lye with her daughter ; and he also cut a young wenches throat , lost she should detect him : good store of plate was found in his house , most of it church plate : the king and his treasurer was burnt . i read of another king of the anabaptists called ian wilhems , whose execrable deeds and actions are written in dutch and translated into french by ch. de niclles . this ian wilhems was sonne to one theodore wilhems , a vicar in ruremond in gelderland : this king kept his residence in divers places , as at ar●hem first ; and afterwards at lovain , wesel , alden , calcar , harsem , and last of all at a village called avendrop , not farre from wesel , to which place divers resorted who had beene in the siege of munster : this man succeeded cornelius appleman : who was executed for his wicked acts in the city of virecht . which appleman succeeded ian cordwainer , who going about to restore the broken fantastick kingdome of the anabaptists , was discovered by some of his followers to be captaine of the theeves and church robbers , and executed at brussels . this king wilhems affirmed the doctrine of the anabaptists taught in munster to be the true doctrine to bring men to salvation , and that god for his austere life had given him grace to make knowne his law more cleerely and purely than it had been ever before , he wrot a book intituled , du mariage impure des faux evangeliques , in which he defended poligami . he rob'd and spoyl'd the countrey about him , affirming that to rob the ungodly was no sinne at all for the people of the new ierusalem , because the good of the land belonged onely to lesus christ and his disciples . this wicked rout called themselves le people de ian wilhelmes . he used a sword , which he called the sword of god and gede● . this holy king had . wives to encrease his holy seed , among whom he had elsken thewes , and elizabeth her daugh●er : also clare and elizabeth , sisters daughters of ian marsens . of his facinorous acts , and names of his queens you may read more at large in the history of his life , written by ch. nells . this fanetick king was burnt according to his deserts the . of march , anno . and divers of his complices were executed at wesell , cleve , ond other places . in this history before releated , we may see the great hypocrisie of these sectaries , who when they crept first into munster made a shew of great holinesse ▪ great humility , great innocence : they would not sweare , not use any obscene speech , their ordinary communication was of mortification ; but when they became masters of the town , they broke the lawes of all pudicity and honesty . more especially an anabapeist might not beare on office in a countrey village , but afterwards iohn of leyden their prophet would be king of the universe , they would not suffer a man to weare a ring , or a woman a silken gowne : but after the surprise of munster , no prince was so gloriously arryed as king iohn and his officers an this other attendants . they pretended that it was not lawfull for a christian man to beare armes or to punish offenders , whereas in munster they exercised all manner of cruelty : king iohn cut of his wives head in the market-place , another prophet his brothers head before his father , affirming it to be the will of the heavenly father . and whereas some good citizens were grieved at their disorders , and groaned under their tyranny , and went about to shake off the yoke of king iohns oppression , about . of them were taken and put to death with all manner of cruelty . iohn of leyden incouraging them , saying that in that their doing they should doe god good service . the history of the anabaptists you shall finde in the fifth and tenth book of sleidens commentaries : master bull●●ger hath written the same , and confuted their errors : lambe●tus hortensius hath written of the anabaptist's of the low countries , and iohn gastius minister of zuricke of their doings in zuitzerland . ii. the errors of the anabaptists , set downe by pontanus , osiander , bullinger , and others . errors not to be tolerated in the church . . that christ did not assume his flesh and bloud from the virgin mary . . that christ is not true god , but onely endued with more gifts than other men . . our righteousnesse not to depend upon faith in christ , but upon the workes of charity and afflection . . they reject the doctrine of originall sin and those doctrines that depend upon it . . they deny baptisme to infan●s , because they cannot make confession of their faith , affirming that the baptisme of children came from the pope and the devill : they call baptisme of infants the marke of the beast . . they re-baptize them that have beene already baptized . . they dream that before the day of judgment their church shall destroy all the wicked , and obtaine a monarchy , in which the godly shall reigne alone . . they allow men free will in spirituall things . . they separate themselves from all other churches , accounting themselves onely pure and holy without sin . . that the office of the ministerie is of no great effisicacie , and that lay men may preach and administer the sacraments . errors not to bee suffered in a common-wealth , without the ruine of it . . that it is unlawfull for a christian man to be a magistrate , and that the people may depose them . . that it is not lawfull for a magistrate to punish any malefactor whatsoever with death . . that a christian man cannot with a safe conscience take 〈◊〉 oath . . nor by oath promise fidelity to any prince or magistrate whatsoever . errors not to be tollerated in families . . that a christian man may not with a safe conscience possesse any thing proper to himselfe , but whatsoever he hath hee must make common . . that wives of a contrary religion may be put away , and that it is lawfull for them to take others . . that a christian man may have many wives . iii. the confutation of these blasphemous and detestable errors before named . that christ tooke not flesh from the virgin mary . this error is flar against the first promise of christ , g●n . . the seed of the woman shall break the serpents head . against the promise made to ab●aham , gen. . in thy seed , &c. to david , psal. . . of the fruit of thy body , &c. luke . that which is borne of thee , saith the angel to mary , rom. . . who was made of the seed of david , according to the flesh , whence in the new testament he is called the son of man. as also isay the son of a virgin , which could not be if he had not taken flesh upon him from the virgin mary : neither should our flesh have any hope of eternall life if he were not made flesh , neither should his passion or resurrection profit us at all . in this point the anabaptists are worse than the papists , yea then the turkes themselves , who confesse that christ was borne of a virgin. the melchiorists , a kinde of anabaptists , doe not onely hold the opinion above named , but also are so diabolicall and blasphemous as to curse the flesh of the blessed virgin , by maintaining this error : the anabaptists manifest themselves to be of the number of them whom the apostle st. iohn speaketh , . eph. vese . for many deceivers are come into the world , who confesse not that iesus christ is come in the flesh . that christ was not true god. this blasphemous error is contrary to the holy scripture , as ioh. . the word was god , ioh. . i and the father am one , ioh. . he that seeth the father , seeth me : i am in the father , and the father in me , col. . , for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the godhead corporally . againe , iohn . we are in him that is true , even in his son iesus christ , that is , the true god. and againe , if he were not god , no created power had been sufficient for the worke of our redemption and satisfaction of gods wrath . this blasphemous opinion reigneth among the anabaptists in moravia : i doe not find this to be maintained by our english anabaptists , but to be the opinion of servetus , who was burnt at geneva and his followers . not to be saved by faith in christ. what can be more contrary to the holy scriptures than this detestable error : read iohn . . so god loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , that who so beleeveth in him shall not perish , but have life everlasting . rom. . . we are justified freely by grace through the redemption that is in iesus christ , rom. . . we conclude that a man is justified by faith , without the workes of the law. by the work of charity and affliction , the passion of christ is a sufficient ransome for all our sin , iohn . the bloud of christ purgeth us from all out unrighteousnesse , isa. . . i am he that blotteth out all thy transgressions , for my own sake , and will not remember thy sinnes , heb. . he hath obtained for us eternall redemption , nothing here perfect , . cor. . neither in his sight can any man living be justified . psal. . . neither any troubled conscience can be pacified , rom. . . being justified by faith , we have peace with god , through our lord iesus christ. and for afflictions they are either just punishments for our sins , or fatherly corrections to stir us up to a holy life . they reject the doctrine of originall sin , because ( say they ) christ hath taken away all evil , whether it be the inclination or concupiscence , according to that , behold the lamb of god that taketh away the sins of the world . also that children whereas they do neither good nor evill , are under grace and without sin , but so the infants of all nations and infidels may be saved , being without sin : but the contrary appeareth by the effect of sin . the reward of sin is death , rom. . and david confesseth expresly . psal. . behold i was borne in iniquity , and in sin my mother conceived me . and st. paul calleth our inbred concupiscence sin dwelling in us . and eph. . we were by nature the children of wrath . they deny the sacrament of baptisme to infants . the ground of this errour is ignorance , they not knowing what baptisme is , pretending faith and repentance to be the estence of baptisme , which infants are not capable of , and therefore not to be baptized . to this i answer ; as faith and repentance was not the essence of circumcision , but the outward circumcising of the flesh , and the inward circumcising of the heart . so the essence of baptisme , is not faith and repentance , but the outward washing of the water , the word annexed , and the inward washing of the spirit . our lord affirmeth , joh. the . except a man be born again by water and the holy ghost , &c. st. augustine affirmeth , although sound faith be not present : yet the sacrament of biptisme may be sound . the greek patriarch , writing to the german divines , affirmeth in baptisme the matter to be water , the forme the words , viz. this servant of god is baptized in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost : the instrumentall cause to be the minister . the anabaptists attribute too much in this sacrament to their repentance , faith , mortification , and merit , and little or nothing to gods mercy , which is most contrary to the nature of this holy sacrament , which sealeth up unto us out receiving into gods favour and grace for his owne mercies sake without any merit of ours . to palliate this their abhominable error , they pervert divers places of holy scripture , as matth. . mar. . out of the order of words , goe and teach all nations , baptizing them : because that teaching is set befor baptizing , they would have children taught before they are baptized . to this i answer , . whereas teaching is set before baptizing , matth. . baptizing is set before teaching , mar. . . john did baptize in the wildernesse , and teach the baptisme of repentance : and againe , where it is said , repent and beleeve : whether is faith or repentance first required ? but where finde you ( say they ) a literall command in all the new testament for the baptisme of infants ? to this i answer : the new testament doth not literally command , remember to keep holy the lords day , nor to say grace before and after meales , or to pray with our families evening , or morning or for women to receive the communion , and many other such like things , which are moral duties , & may be sufficiently proved by consequence out of the holy scriptures . as for example in this very text which they alleadge against the baptisme of children : the baptisme of children is there commanded : goe and teach all nations , baptizing , &c. the meaning is , goe and teach all them that are capable of teaching and baptize them that are capable of baptizing : to make this more plaine . is a man should bid his servant , goe sheare all my sheep and mark them : if that servant should sheare all his sheep , and mark them only that he had shorn , and not mark his lambs , because he could not shear them : doth that servant fulfill his masters command ? no more had the apostles done , if they had not marked his lambs as well as his sheep ; although they were not capable of teaching , yet they were capable of marking or baptizing . in lawes and precepts that be generall , the numeration of singulars are not necessary ; because lawes doe command the whole kind : and therefore the holy apostles baptized whole families , in which we find none excep●ed , as st. peter baptized cornelius and his family , acts . . st. paul baptized the jaylor , and all that belonged unto him , acts . . lydda and her houshold , acts . . the houshold of stephanus , cor. . , &c. again , whereas our lord commandeth , mark . suffer little children to come unto me , and forbid them not . how properly can an infant come unto christ but by baptisme ? repent they cannot , beleeve they cannot , as the anabaptists affirm : but by baptisme they may come , where the minister in christs stend receiveth them and blesseth them ; and why all this ? of such is the kingdome of god , and therefore saith our lord , forbid them not . st. peter saith , acts . . the promise is mad : to you and your children ; and therefore be baptized . to whom the promise is made , and covenant , let no man forbid baptisme , which is the seal of the covenant . again , the faith of the parents may warrant their infants baptisme : yea , though they have but an hystoricall faith , and not a justifying , if they can credere ad baptismum , though not adsalutem : this faith maketh their children capable of baptisme : many in the apostles time were baptized , having onely an historicall faith , as s●mon magus , and others . moreover , these phrases , teach and baptize , repent and beleeve , beleeve & be baptized , are meant of such as were of riper years , and made profession of the christian faith , or else the estate of christian infants in the gospel , were much worse then the condition of the israelitish infants under the law : which to affirme , is an horrible indignity offered unto christ. last of all , most blasphemously they call baptisme of christian mens children , the mark of the beast , and to come from antichrist , and especially from pope innocent the third , who lived about the yeare , . learned mr. calvin affirmeth the baptisme of children to be a holy institution alwayes observed in christ church . all the reformed churches use it , and it hath ben the practice of the universall church . the greek church ( who yearly excommunicate the pope ) to whom st. paul preched , baptize their infants , as gregory nazianzen affirmeth . and origen , who lived about the yeare , about , yeares before pope innocent , whom the anabaptists would make the author of pedobaptisme . the russians , who received the faith from st. andrew the apostle , and account the pope of rome an heretick , hold a necessity of baptisme , and put to death them that neglect and deride baptisme : what would they doe with these men who blaspheme it ? the abyssi●s , or ethiopians , who received christianity from st. matthew the apostle , doe baptize their infants : viz. their male children at fourty dayes of age , and their females at eighty . the armenian christians , to whom st. barthoiomew preached the faith , baptize their infants . baronius writeth , that these christians had a thousand bishops . the iacobites , who are a numerous sort of christians , doe the same : yea , they mark their children with a hot iron with the signe of the crosse , alluding to the words of st. iohn : he shall baptize you with the holy ghost , and with fire . the cophtie , or native christians of egypt , to whom saint mark preached , baptize their infants : these christians have no communion with the pope of rome . the indians to whom st. thomas brought the faith , do the like . the matacasion christians in africa , affirme children dying without baptisme , to be deprived of eternall beatitude . the melchites , one of the greatest fort of christians in the orient , as boterus affirmeth , do the same . the nestorians under the patriarch of muzal , who as cardinall vitriacus affirmeth , are more numerons with the iacobites , then the christians of the latin and greek church , doe the same : these account the pope of rome a reprobate bishop . the circassians , mengrellians , georgians , maronites , cephalians ; with all the orthodox christians in the universe baptize their infants . erasmus wondreth what evill devill entred them , who forbid the baptisme of children used by the holy catholick church for above . years . also the britains , to whom simon zelotes preached have alwayes baptized their children , and have honourably esteemed of that sacrament administred to their children , until some of these hereticks fled hither out of germany , where they burnt , hanged , and drowned men of that sect , till they had suppressed them . they came into england about the year . and , as they could be found , we did the like to them , burning some , and banishing others : but since the yeare of our lord . they have crept out of their holes , lift up their heads , chalenge our divines to publick disputations , preach in our churches , publish their blasphemies , print their bookes , seducing multitudes of people . and moreover , to speak of the curelty of these sectaries , who depriving infants of baptisme , put them all out of the estate of grace . we read of herod the tyrant , who destroyed all the children in bethlehem , and the coasts thereof ; is not this a far more cruell sentence , to set all infants in no better state then pagans and infidels , without christ , aliens from the common-wealth of israel , as strangers from the convenant of promise , having no hope , and without god in the world ? can any sober christian but think this to be a barbarous cruelty ? it is not lawfull to take childrens bread , and give it to dogs : but these conclude children to be no better then dogs . the propher elisha wept when he look● upon hazael , fore-seeing that ●e should dash the infants of israel against the wall : hazael thought himselfe worthy to be so esteemed , if ever he should ●●e any such things . and certainly thus to deprive infants of baptisme , is a more cruell act then to dash their bodies against stones . let these men also consider how much they provoke christs displeasure against themselves : he was greatly displeased with his disciples for forbidding little children to come to him : and one day they shall find him much more displeased with them ▪ who with great violence oppose the bringing of children to christ in this holy sacrament , and with wrong , injury and slander : prosecute the ministers of christ , who administer this sacrament to infants , condemning the●●or ministers of antichrist : yea , condemning all churches ●or antichristian , who will not cast their children out of ●be covenant of grace . the lord open their eyes that they may see their errour , and repent of it . to conclude , the baptism● of children is commanded in holy scripture : the holy apostle , baptized whole families , the ancient ●athers testifie the same ; the holy catholick church of god alwayes used it . let not the devill enter into the heart of any man to bel●●ve a f●●acick , unlearned , mechanick man , not an angel from h●aven that teacheth a contrary doctrine : what greater mischiefe can the devill and his imps do , then to make a schisme in the church , and rob almighty god of all his lambs● and cut off so many millions of souls from the communion of the church ? and also whereas our pious parents brought us to christ , and dedicated us to god the father , sonne , and holy ghost : let us take heed that we do not renounce that holy covenant , as witches doe when they compact with the devill : remember our lords words ; how can yee escape the damnation of hell ? they baptize them that have already been baptized . they do that which the scripture never commandeth , ep● . . st. paul calleth it , one baptisme , neither was ●ebaptization ever received in the true church of god ; yea the church taught that they that were baptized by such heretickes as erred not in the doctrine concerning the trinity were not to be re-baptized . also the imperiall law punished them with capitall punishment who submitted themselves to a second baptisme . they dreame of monarchy , in which the godly shall reigne alone , and destroy the ungodly , which is false ; for christs kingdome in this world is spirituall , in which troubled consciences shall be victors , and receive solid consolation against sin , the devill , and all manner of temptations . our lord himselfe saith , my kingdome is not of this world , john . likewise saith st. paul ; the weapons of our war are not carnall , but mighty in operation , cor. . our lord telleth us that the separation betweene the godly and ungodly shall not be untill the last day , luke againe , that the sonne of man comming , shall hardly find faith upon earth , luke . in that night there shall be two in a bed , the one received , the other refused . and mat. . that the angles shall separate the godly from the ungodly , and the tares to remaine with the what untill the harvest . this monarchy st. peter confuteth in his second epistle . . saying , the lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations , and to reserve the unjust against the day of judgement to be punished : therefore they are not to reigne alone here , the ungodly being killed . and although the prophets seeme sometimes to speake of a corporall kingdome , yet they expound themselves , shewing that they speak of his spirituall kingdome . to reigne with christ . years before the ending of the world was the old error of the chiliasts , condemned above years agone by the church of god , they allow men free will. so that we may doe those things which god commanded , and omit those things which god hath forbidden ; otherwise ( say they ) god gave his law in vaine : neither would he punish delinquents if he had not given them the power of free will. it is answered , it is impossible that in our corrupt nature we should keep the law , because it doth require a whole and absolute obedience in all things inward and outward ; of all the heart , all our soule , and all our might : and the sense of the flesh ( as st. paul testifieth ) is enmity to god. also , the naturall man doth not understand the things that are of the spirit , cor. . also iohn . man cannot take to himselfe any thing except it be given him from above . so eph. . the unregenerate man is said to be dead . they separate themselves from all other churches , accounting themselves onely pure and holy ; and for this cause some of them will not say this petition of the lords prayer ( forgive us our trespasses ) saying , they are pure and without sinne : to this i answer with st. iohn , epist. . . if we say we have no sin , we deceive our selves , and the truth is not in us ; if we confesse our sins , he is faithfull to forgive us our sins , and to cleanse us from all our unrighteousnesse : if we say we have not sinned , we make him a lyar , and his word is not in us . to conclude , the anabaptists that say they have no sin , are of the devill the father of lyes , going about to make god a lyar who is truth it selfe . the office of the ministery to be of no great efficacie with them . ] they doe not onely contemne the office of the ministery , but also the holy scripture . as muncer would speake scoffingly of it , bible , bible , bable , bable : they depend too much upon peculiar revelations . the sincere preaching the word of god in the publick congregations by the ministers of the word lawfully called , profiteth much . mal. . the lips of the priest shall preserve wisedome , they shall require the law from his mouth . ezech. . the priest shall teach my people the differences betweene the holy and the prophane , and cause them to discerne betweene the uncleane and cleane . rom. . . the preaching of the word is the power of god to salvation to every one that beleeveth . for this cause christ taught in the synagogues . every one among them taketh upon him to preach as a minister , iohn becold a taylor of leyden . the apostle teacheth us heb. . that no man take this calling upon him except hee bee called of god. rom. . how shall they preach except they be sent ? and this standeth with good reason , for every true minister standeth in gods roome , being the lords embassadour to deliver his will. who dareth take upon him to be the lords embassadour except he be sent ? i have not sent them ( saith the lord ) and yet they run and prophesie lies in my name . piety and justice are the two bases or pillars that beare up humane society : and whereas the devill goeth about in these his impes to overthrow the dignity of the ministery and of the magistrate , what doth he else but endeavour to bring the whole world to ruine and confusion ? the confutation of their errors not tolerable in a comman-wealth . that it is unlawfull for a christian man to be a magistrate or to be subject to a magistrate . and why ? they object that subjection came in with sin ; but christ hath taken away sin , and therefore no subjection . to this i answer ; subjection is two fold , servile or civill : servile is the vassalage of a slave , which was not before the fall : civill for the common good was before : the former a curse , the latter a blessing : eve was subject to adam before either of them sinned . . they object that every beleever is now in the kingdome of heaven , christ alone must reigne . ans. there is a spiritual kingdome standing in grace , peace and joy , in which there is no distinction of persons . there is also a civill government , which cannot subsist without distinctions and order : there must be masters and servants ; subjects and governours ; and necessity requireth it , it is the bond of the common-wealth . there is a regiment in the hoast of heaven ; there is a regiment in the body , the members move by the direction of the head ; there is a regiment in every family , the servants acknowledge the master ▪ and the children their parents . among the irrationall cr●atures the bees have their king. the cranes their leader , and the 〈…〉 principall beast . st. paul calleth magist●a●y a divine cr●●●ance all gods o●dinances a●● good & lawful : 〈◊〉 ● psalm● 〈…〉 called gods because they are in gods ●lace . the anabap●●sts themselves who despised government finding the necessity of it in munst●r , so that they could not subsist without go●ernment , chose themselves a king with inferiour officers under him . that it is not lawfull for a magistrate to punish , because reveng● is forb●dden christian m●n . in this they erre , not distinguishing betweene revenge and punishment , which is from the magistrate by reason of the execution of the law grounded upon gods law , a lawfull punishment appointed by god. the magistrate ( saith st. paul ) is the minister of god appointed for thy go●d : either for our naturall good , preserving our lives which bloody men would soone ruinate , who feare not so much hell as the halter : for our civill good , preserving our goods and possessions : for our morall good , in rewarding vertue , and punishing vice , he beareth not the sword in vaine : for our spirituall good , by coactive power enforcing men to the duties of godlinesse . in that notorious apostasie of israel , when so many execrable enormities were committed ; when micah had a house of gods , the levite wanted maintenance ; when his concubine was ravished to death , the spirit still prefixeth , at that time there was no king in israel . wee are beholding to governement for order , peace , and religion : for order , wher● no king is , every man will be his owne king : for peace , he that will bee his owne king , will bee another mans tyrant : for religion , every micah will have a house of gods without governement . to conclude , adulterers , murtherers , traytors , witches , burners of houses may be put to death by the magistrate to whom the sword is given , and they are not killed , but such in suffering , doe receive a just guerdon for their offences . that a christian man may not take an oath , because christ saith . thou shall not sweare at all , which is repeated , iames . and that it is enough to say , yea , yea , and nay , nay . answ. christ doth not forbid an oath before a magistrate , as it is a testimony of truth : he reproveth the pharisees , who taught men that they should sweare , not onely by the name of god , as god had commanded , but also by heaven by the earth , by their heads , &c. this vitious kind of swearing he forbiddeth , onely because these things cannot be witnesses of the things averred , nor punish lying . neither doe the words following , let your communication be yea , yea , and nay , nay , take away a lawfull oath ; but admonish the godly of the goodnesse of truth , and hatred of lies . that a godly man may lawfully take an oath , appeareth by these reasons , following : . from the authority of holy scripture , by the name of god thou shalt sweare , deut. . . the reason is set down , heb. . because the lord is greater , and that an oath is the end of all controversies : so psal. . he that sweareth to his neighbour , and deceiveth him not . . from the example of christ and holy men in the old and new testament , genes . . . . from the worship of god : for an oath is part of gods worship , being a calling upon god to be a witnesse of the truth , and an avenger of the lie . nor by oath promise any fidelity , or bind himselfe to any prince or magistrate whatsoever . this opinion openeth a gap to all treasons , rebellions , and truce-breakings whatsoever . if it be not lawfull for a christian man to bind himselfe by an oath , then i● is unlawfull for a christian man to keep such an oath . isaac made a covenant with abimelech king of gerar , to doe one another no hurt : which being sealed up with an oath , could not be violated without sinning . the prophe● ezekiel calleth the oath of obedience ( which zedechiah king of ●srael made to the king of babel ) the oath of god : although the said king was a tyrant and an usurper , without any lawfull succession from david ; yet he confirmeth it by the mouth of his prophet , ezek. . . as i live , i will surely bring upon zedechia mine oath that he hath despised , and my covenant which he hath broken , upon his own head . again , you may see how great a tie an oath is , and how severely almighty god doth punish the violation thereof in the story of ths gibeonites , iosh. . joshuah and the princes having made a league with them ( being beguiled by them , pretending that they came from a farre countrey ) the congregation murmuring against the princes , were answered by them after this manner , we have sworn to them by the lord god of israel , now therefore we may not touch them , lest wrath be upon us , because of the oath which we swore unto them . about yeares after , saul in his zeale to the children of israel , shew the gibeonites ; for which cause , sam. . the lord plagued the whole land , sending a famine upon them for three yeares , declaring himselfe , that it was sent because saul had slain the gibeonites , who hanged up seven of sauls sons given them by david , and then god was intreated for the land. . confutation of errors not tollerable in families . that a christian cannot with a good conscience have any thing proper , but all things common . this community they ground upon the example of the apostles in the acts. answer . an example maketh no law , neither was this universall . peter saith to ananias , acts . . whilst it remained was it not thine own ? again , cor. . every man as he purposeth in his heart , so let him give . the property of goods is confirmed in the seventh commandement . again , tim. . the apostle chargeth rich men not to be proud , but bountifull ; not to forsake their goods , but to use them well , by giving alms . again , prov. . . let thy fountains be dispersed abroad , and rivers of wa●ers in the streets : let them onely be thine own , and not strangers with thee ; out of which we may gather , that every man hath a property in his own that if their wives be not of their religion , they may put them away . answer . this is against the definition of marriage , which is a lawfull copulation of a man and woman not prohibited by the degrees of consanguinity or affinity . the marriage of an infidell before god , is in it selfe no sin . the apostle perswadeth the beleever not to put away his unbeleeving wife , cor. . joseph in aegypt married the daughter of an heathen priest , and moses took the daughter of jethro , who was not of the circumcision . marriage is a lawfull copulation of a man and a woman , not to be dissolved during life , but for adultery . that it is lawfull to have many wives . to this i may oppose the words of saint paul , . cor. . . to avoid fornication , let every man have his own wife , and every woman her own husband , heb. . whoremongers and adulterers god will judge . exod. . . thou shalt not commit adultery . malachi . . did he not make one ? . the orthodox doctrine of the church of england , contrary to these detestable errors , taken out of the . articles . having handled much poyson , i thinke it fit to give the reader to preserve him from infection , some methridate out of the paunarium , or medicinable box of our mother the church , viz. out of the articles of doctrine agreed upon for avoiding of diversity of opinions , and establishing of consent touching true religion : to which articles every minister refusing to subscribe , should ipso fasto be deprived , and all his promotions to be void , as if he were naturally dead . read the statute . . that christ took flesh from the virgin mary . the sonne which is the word of the father , begotten from the everlasting father , the very eternall god of one substance with the father took mans nature in the womb of the blessed virgin of her substance ; so th●t two wh●le and perfect natures , ( that is to say ) the god-head and the man-hood , were joyned together in one person never to be divided , whereof is one christ very god and very man , who truly suffered , was crucified , dead and buried , to reconcile us to his father , and to be a sacrifice not onely for originall guilt , but also for the actuall sinnes of men . . that christ was god. there is but one living and true god everlasting , without body parts , or passion of infinite power , wisedome and goodnesse , the maker and preserver of all things both visible and invisible ; and in the unity of this god-head are three pers●ns 〈◊〉 one substance , power , and eternity , the father , son , and holy ghost . . of our justification by faith. we are accounted ●ighteous before god , onely for the merit of our lord and saviour jesus christ , by faith and not for our own works or deservings : wherefore that we are justified by saith only , is a most wholsome doctrine , and very full of comfort . . for good workes . which are the fruits of faith , and follow after justification , alb●it they cannot put away our sinnes and endure the severity of gods judgements , yet they are pleasing and acceptable to god in christ , and so spring out necessarily of a true & lively faith , insomuch as by them a lively faith may be evidently knowne , as a tree is discerned by the fruit . . of originall sinne . originall sinne standeth not in the following of adam , but it it the fault and corruption of the nature of every man that naturally is ingendred of the off-spring of adam , whereby man is very far gone from originall righteousnesse , and is of owne nature enclined to evill , so that the flesh lusteth alwayes against the spirit , and therefore in every person borne into this world , it deserveth gods wrath and damnation ; and this infection in nature doth remaine , yea in them that are regenerated , whereby the lust of the flesh cald in greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which some doe expound the wisedome , some sensuality , some the affection , some the desire of the flesh , is not subject to the law of god. and although there is no condemnation to them that beleeve and are baptized : yet the apostle doth confesse that concupiscence and lust hath of it selfe the nature of sin . . of the baptisme of infants . baptisme is not onely a signe of profession and marke of difference , wherehy christian men are discerned from other that be not christned : but it is also a signe of regeneration or new birth , whereby ( as by an instrument ) they that receive baptisme rightly are grafted into the church : the promises of the forgivenesse of sinne , and of our adoption to be the sons of god , by the holy ghost are visibly signed and sealed . faith is confirmed , and grace encreased by vertue of prayer unto god. the baptisme of young children is in any wise to be retained in the church , as most agreeable with the institution of christ. . of free-will . the condition of man after the fall of adam , is such , that he cannot turne and prepare himselfe by his owne naturall strength and good workes to faith and calling upon god. wherefore we have no power to doe good workes pleasing and acceptable to god , without the grace of god by christ preventing us , that we may have a good will , and working with us when we have that good will. . of being without sinne . christ is alone without sin ; if we say we have no sin , we deceive our selves , and the truth is not in us . . of the civill magistrate . we give unto the kings most excellent majesty that prerogative which we see to be given to all godly princes in holy scriptures by god himselfe , that is , that they should rule all estates and degrees committed to their charge by god , whether they be ecclesiasticall or temporall , and restraine with the sword the stubborne and evill doers . the lawes of the realme may punish christian men with death for heynous and grievous offences . it is lawfull for christian men at the commandement of the magistrate to weare weapons and serve in the wars . . christian mens goods are not common . the riches and goods of christian men are not common , as touching the right , title , and possession of the same , as the anabaptists doe falsely boast . . a christian mans oath . as we confesse that vaine and rash swearing is forbidden christian men by our lord jesus christ and iames his apostle : so we judge that christian religion doth not prohibite , but that a man may sweare when the magistrate requireth , in a cause of faith and charity , so it be done according to the prophets teaching , in judgement , justice , and truth . . of the severall sorts of anabaptists . it betell the anabaptists as other heriticks , to wit , having once forsaken the truth , there is no end of their errors . as the spirit encreased , so many things were altered , and new things received by the brethren as oracles from heaven . first , they break asunder into foure sects , and david george tooke upon him to reconcile them , who being possessed with the devill , prefer'd himselfe most blasphemously before christ himselfe ; dayly they were divided more and more . there are foureteen severall sorts of anabaptists according to their severall sorts of errors or authors set downe by alst edius in his indice theologia polemina , page . viz. muncerians . apostolikes . separatists . catharists . silentes . enthusiasts . liberi . adamites . hutites . augustinians . beucheldians . melchiorites . georgians . menonists . whose severall errors i purpose to touch . muncerians , so called of muncer before named , who raising a sedition of boores in germany , was defeated , taken and beheaded about the yeare of our lord god , . he preached that all goods must be common , and all men free , and of equall dignity . that god had commanded him to destroy all the ungodly , and to repurge the church . apostolikes , a kinde of anabaptists , because they would be like the apostles , they wandred up and downe the countreyes without staves , shooes , money , or bags , preaching up and downe their celestiall vocation to the ministerie of the word , they washed one anothers feet ; and leaving houses , wives , and trades ; they were so burthensome to the brethren , that at last they were excommunicated as idle drones . they dissolved the bands of marriage when they lifted , putting their wives away as oft as they pleased . separatists , a kinde of anabapt●sts , so called , because they pretended to be separated from the world : they condemned fine cloathes : to them that laughed they would cry ; woe bee to you that laugh , for hereafter yee shall mourne . they did look sadly , and fetcht deep sighes ; they avoyded marriage meetings , fealts , musick , and condemned bearing of armes , and covenants . catharists , who deny children baptisme , affirming that they have no originall sin , and pretending themselves to bee pure and without sin . these will not say this petition in the lords prayer , forgive us our trespasses . silentes , who despise all humane constitutions , and dispatch their businesse with great silence , they answer all questions of religion with much silence enthusiasts , who pretend that they have the gift of prophesie by dreames , to which they give much credit . they would lye in trances like men having the falling sicknesse , and then would declare st●ange things which god had revealed to them , viz. that anabaptisme was holy : that pedobaptisme came from the divell , and that zwinglius was in hell , &c. liberi , a sort of anabaptists , who understand the liberty we have in christ carnally : and , being freed from christ , they thinke themselves freed from paying any rent , tribute , or tithes , and take unto themselves liberty to commit all uncleanesse whatsoever . adamites , a kinde of anabaptists , who think cloathes to be cursed , and given to man for a punishment of sin , whereas they thinke themselves to be innocent and without sin . hutites , who boast themselves to be the only children of god , and hei●es of heaven , so called of iohn huta ; this iohn huta dyed in prison . these anabaptists deny the deity of christ. augustinians , who affirm the entrance into paridice to have been shut up untill augustine the bohemian opened it for himselfe and those that were of his sect. beuckeldians , a kind of anabaptists so called of ioh. beuchelzo●●●us ; these affirme polygamie to be permitted in the gospell , and that it is a holy thing to have many wives . melchiorists are anabaptists , so called of melchior hofman , who was their prophet at strausborough , whom they do expect to come at the day of judgement with elias . they also affirme the blessed virgin mary not to be the mother of our lord , but to be as a conduit through which christ passed , so that hee tooke nothing from her , neither was borne of her . this hofman was so wicked as to say , malidista sit caro mariae . georgians , certaine anabaptists , followers of david george , who was father of the familists , boasted that he was a great prophet , the son of god , greater than christ : and hee should rise three yeares after his death , and restore the kingdome of israel . menonists , called of menon a frisian , by whose name the anabaptists were generally called , as if all their other denominations had been lost and buried . these foureteen are named by astedius : mr. bullinger in his first book against anabaptists , nameth others , as some of them under pretence of childish innocency , played many odde pranks : one having kept his excrements in store many dayes , powred them out in the street , and turned himselfe naked into them , saying , unlesse we be made like little children , we cannot enter into the kingdome of heaven . others for the same reason would ride upon sticks and hobby-horses like children in great companies , and women would run naked with them , and then in pure innocency they lay together , and so in the end it proved childrens play indeed . servetians , a blasphemous kinde of anabaptists , so called of servetus , a spaniard , whose heresies are set down by prateolus , bullinger , and others ; he called the baptisme of children an horrible abhomination : he would not have them baptized before they were thirty yeares old . this servetus denyed the deity of christ , and was burnt for his blasphemous opinions , october , . in the yeare of our lord , . at geneva . libertines , who make god the author of sinne , and deny the resurrection of the body : against these mr. calvin hath written a treatise ; bullinger telleth us of divers sotts of anabaptists called liberi , vid. sup . denkians , a sort of anabaptists , of which denkius was chief , who taught that the devill and wicked men should be saved . this denkius was converted by oecolampadius minister of basil. semper orantes , who would alwayes pray , and neglect all other duties . deo relicti , anabaptists that relying onely upon god , refuse all meanes that god hath appoynted . monasterienses , or magnificent anabaptists , so called because of their bravery under their king iohn , who added many things unto the hodgepodge of their errors : as the having many wives , which he pretended to receive from the heavenly father ; and it was no burthen for a man to have never so many in munster , they being provided for out of the common stock . they put away barren women , and women past children as good for nothing , and committed them to curators to keep : whereas they had many wives , yet it was accounted a great offence for one wife to looke ( distorto vertu ) but awry upon her sister wife , yea , accounted a capitall crime . yea , at this day they have a new crotchet come into their heads , that all that have not beene plunged nor dipt under waters , are not truely baptized , and these also they re-baptize ; and this error ariseth from ignorance of the greek word , baptize , which signifieth no more then washing or ablution , as hezychius , stephanus , scapula , budaeus , great masters of the greek-tongue make good by many instances and allegations out of many authors . in holy scripture it is used generally to wash , luke . . the pharisees wondred that he had not first washed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . mark. . . except they wash oft they care not . and both are allowed by our church ; and sprinkling hath been rather used among us , by reason of the coldnesse , of our climate , and the tendernesse of our infants . they will tell us that christ was baptized in the river , and the eunuch in the river . true it is , for then they had no churche , nor fonts , which now are to be used ; but in what river was cornelins and his family , or the jaylor and his family plunged in ? againe , if the spirituall grace be sufficiently expressed by a little water sprinkled , as by ducking in a river : then dipping is not necessary ; as a little bread in the sacrament of the lords supper , is of as much efficacy as a whole loafe . the apostle telleth us , heb. . . ofsprinkling them that were uncleane . st. cyprian telleth us true baptisme to be as well by sprinkling as by dipping . it is impossible ( saith mr. bullinger ) to set downe all the differences and contrary opinions of the anabaptists , with all their pernicious sects and factions ; and true it is that almost everie one of them hath some peculiar toy or figment in their heads , upon which they are divided , and oft excommunicate one another . . of their manner of re-baptizing , and other rites . they flock in great multitudes to their jordans , and both sexes enter into the river , and are dipt after their manner with a kinde of spell , containing the heads of their erroneous tene●s , and their ingaging themselves in their schismaticall covenants , and combination of separation . in the thames and rivers , the baptizer , and the party baptized go both into the rivers , and the parties to be baptized are dipped or plunged under water . they receive the holy communion most unreverently , sitting with their hats upon their heads . for their marriages , they mary not in their congregations , but in private , after this manner : barbara ( saith the bridegroome ) wilt thou have me the brother of the lord , a man newly regenerate of water and of the holy ghost ? are you of that church whereof i am a member ? she answereth , i am re-baptized ( god be praised ) and w●ll co-habite with no man but with a brother of the same faith ; to whom the bridegroome replieth , give me thy hand , and give me a kisse , and i take thee to wife , both for ou● faith approved in baptisme , and because my spirit is exceeding enamoured of thee ▪ the bride saying the same words , the marriage is consummated . for their spirituall marriage , which is their promiscuous uncleaninesse . they affirm , those women sin grievously that ly● with their husbands that are not re-baptized , because they are gentiles ; but it to be no sin at all for them to lye with any man that hath bin re-baptized because the heavenly father hath so cōmanded . gastius reporteth , that a certain mayd of modest behaviour , who had dwelt with her master honestly many years , being seduced by the anabaptists , lived among them , and after a moneth returned to see her old master , who saluted her merrily after this manner : why dost thou suffer thy selfe to be seduced by those impure knaves ? a woman having once lost her honesty , what hath she left her ? the wench answered , they told me that the heavenly father commanded it , and therefore i was most obed●en● in all things to all m●n , and denied no man the duty of spirituall marriage that did require it : her master answered , fie upon thee bol● whore , that doest not onely glory in thy great sinne , but also accountest thy abominable wickednesse to be pleasing unto god! thus they deceive the poor people , they perswade simple women under pretence of gods commandement , that they cannot be saved except they prostiture their bodies to their brethren , and play the ha●lots . for this community of women they had divers reasons worthy of registring . that christians must renounce for christs sake those things that they love best , and are most deare unto them , and therefore women must renounce their beloved honesty . that so christs sake wee must undergoe all manner of infamy . that publicans and harlots shall enter heaven before the pharis●es , and therefore common women before honest matrons . again , as we are all one spirit ; so we must be all one body ; again , one faith , one charitie . for their manner of * ordination of their ministers . the anabaptists are all preachers , every man at his pleasure taketh upon him to be the lords embassadour : as iohn becold the tayler of leyden ; i ohn matthias the baker of hartem ; and hence have our coblers , shoomakers , ostlers , &c , learnt to take upon them this divine calling , of which the holy ghost speaketh , no man taketh this calling upon him except hee be sent of god. for their learning : they have none at all , all bookes they burnt in munster but the bible ; many of them can scarcely read ; yea gastius affirmeth that many of their preachers never saw a bible . for their places of assembling , they doe not meet in churches ; their going thither ( say they ) is like the going of the heathen to their idoll temples ; but rather in woods and secret places , and this rather in the night then in the day , darknesse being fittest for their devotions . in munster they burnt the church of st. maurice , and made store-houses of others . for their manner of preaching , they please the common people well in preaching community of goods , every man to bee alike , exemption from paying of rent , tribute , and tythes ; putting down of magistrates ; and commonly they raile as if they were mad against the reformed preachers that go about to detect their errors , and teach them obedience . they affirm luther to be worse then the pope , and hate the protestant preachers more then the popish priests . for miracles they can doe none , except it be a miracle ( saith gastius ) to make halfe-witted men starke mad , or to make full ambries soone emptie . one of their prophets pretended to do a great miracle , viz. in the night time he caused to be put a great number of fishes into a soule puddle where the people used to wash horses , and in the morning he called the people together , and prophesied : thus saith the lord , cast nets into this puddle , and you shall get good ●ish ( a thing incredible ) for never fish was seene there ; but at his command , his disciples cast a net and inclosed multitudes of fi●hes , so that the net brake . thus the prophane rascall ( saith my authour ) would imitate the miracle of christ , and god in his anger gave efficacie of errour to that false miracle , by which he deceived many . . how christian princes have suppressed these sectaries , and especially how they have been punished in england . as you have heard of their detestable and blasphemous errors ; so i purpose to speak a word or two of the severe punishments inflicted upon those wicked sectaries . anabaptisme continued in germany in its vigour not much above ten years , they were destro●ed and suppressed by the christian princes and magistrates ; at frankhus there were slain about of them and executed with munter ; at norinberg also a great number were slaine ; at zuricke they drowned the● that were re-baptized ; at vienna they did the like ; at passom many were burnt and drowned ; in the low countries at amsterd●m , leyden , hartsem , and in all other places else , they were everly punished . pontanus writeth of the destruction of ● persons . the christian p●●ces and magistrates never left burning , drowning , and destroying them till their remainder was contemptible : a remnant of them came into england in two ships ▪ where they have lyen lurking . they came hither about the year . in the yeare . ●e read of them in our chronicles , viz. upon the second day of november ▪ in the said year foure anabaptists●are ●are fagots at pauls crosse ; and againe , of the burning of two dutch anabaptists in smithfield the th day of november . againe , of two dutch anabaptists burnt in the high way beyond southwarke , leading to newington , auno . againe , upon easter day , of a congregation of dutch anabaptists discovered in a house without the barres at algate , of whom were taken of them , foure recanted at pauls crosse the th day of may , in forme following . whereas l. t. r. h. being seduced by the devill the spirit of error , and by false teachers have fallen into most damnable and detestable errors , namely . that christ tooke not flesh of the substance of the virgin mary . that the infants of the faithfull ought not to bee baptized . that a christian man may not be a magistrate , or beare the sword or office of authority . that it is not lawfull for a christian man to take an oath . now by the grace of god , and through conference with good and learned ministers of christs church , i understand the same to be most damnable and detestable heresies , and doe aske god before his church mercy for my sayd former errors ; and doe forsake , recant , and renounce them , and abjure them from the bot●ome of my heart , protesting that i certainely beleeve . . that christ tooke flesh of the substance of the virgin mary . . that the infants of the faithfull ought to be baptized . . that a christian man may be a magistrate , beare the sword and office of authority . . that it is lawfull for a christian man to take an oath . and further i confesse , that the whole doctrine established and published in the church of england , and also that is received in the dutch church in london , is found true , and according to gods word , whereunto in all things i submit my selfe , and will bee most gladly a member of the sayd dutch church , from henceforth utterly a bandoning and forsaking all and every anabaptisticall errors . anno , in the th yeare of q●een elizabeth of blessed memory , one man and ten women , dutch anabaptists , were in the consistory of pauls condemned to bee burnt in smithfield : but after great pains taken with them , onely one woman was converted , and the other were banished the land. the th of july in the same yeare , two dutch men , anabaptists , were burnt in smithfield , who dyed in great horror , c●ying and roa●ing : this was the entertainment that these sectaries had in times past . in the yeare ▪ a proclamation was set forth by queen elizabeth , whereby she commanded the anabaptists and such like hereticks which had flocked to the coast-towns of england from the parts beyond the seas , under colour of shunning of per●ecution , and had spread the poyson of their sects in england ▪ to depart the realme within dayes ▪ whether they were 〈◊〉 borne people of the land , or forreigners , upon paine of imprisonment and los●e of goods . . of the audacious boldnesse of these sectaries at this time . before you have heard of the condition of these hereticks in times past : but with griefe of heart i speake it . now they lift up their heads , they write books and publish them in defence of their detestable opinions , of which i have seen some : the one by one edw : barber , and two other by a. r. anno . a fourth by one lamb , with others , and this without any controle that i can heare of . yea , they challenge our divines openly to defend their tenets by disputation , and to satisfie the people . doctor featly gave them a meeting in southwarke , where foure of their disputants appeared on their side , besides a great number of the vulgar : of which meeting the doctor hath given the world an account . would to god our rel●gious patriots assembled in parliament would at length take care ( as they have done of the romish emissaries ) to suppresse these , that the name of god be not blasphemed : that they may not infect the simple people with their abhominable errorus . was not all israel plagued for the execrable things taken by achan ? who can tell whether the plagues of god that are upon us , are for not punishing these detestable sectaries and others ? alas our poore church is oppressed , and who layeth hand to help . the plague of heresie is among us , and we have no power to keep the ●ick from the whole . the wolves that were wont to lye in the woods , are come into our sheep-fold , and roare in the holy congregations . oh thou shepheard of israel , why hast thou broken down the hedge of this thy vineyard which thy right hand hath planted ? the bore out of the wood , and the wild beas● out of the field do devoure . oh remember not against us our former iniquities , let thy tender mercies prevent us , for we are brought very low . the confession of faith of those churches which are commonly called anabaptists , printed at london in the year of our lord god , . subscribed in the names of . churches in london . william k●ffen , thomas patience , john spilsbery , george tipp●ng , sam. richardson , thomas skippard , thomas munday , thomas gunne , john m●bbat , john webbe , thomas killcop , paul h●bson , thomas gore , joseph ●helps , edward heath . set downe in . articles . in which articles you shall finde some rats bane covered with a great deale of honey . . in the . article , that the due maintenance of the officers ( viz. the ministers ) should be free , &c. their meaning being , that their maintenance should depend upon the voluntary contribution of their people : this their opinion is most impious and sacrilegious , and directly repugnant to gods law. . in the . they affirme baptisme to be an ordinance of the new testament , given by christ to be dispensed onely upon persons professing faith , or that are disciples , or taught , who upon a profession of faith ought to be baptized . by this article most cruelly they exclude all infants baptisme from the sacrament of entrance into the church , being the only outward meanes of their salvation . . in the . they making dipping necessary , which christ never commanded . . in the . the persons designed by christ , say they , to dispense this ordinance : a preaching disciple , it be●ng tyed to no particular church ▪ officer , nor pe●son . . in the . article , that such to whom god hath given gifts may preach . when muncer a seditious anabaptist began first to preach , luther advised the senate of mul●us to demand of him what calling he had : and if he should avouch god to be his authour , then they should require him to prove his extraordinary calling by some evident signe . for whensoever it pleaseth god to change the ordinary course , and to call any man to any office extraordinarily , he declareth that his good will and pleasure by some evident signe : if the anabaptisticall calling be ordinary , let them prove it by scripture : if extraordinary , let them prove it by miracles . here i might adde the summe of a treatise of mr. johnons ( who stileth himselfe pastour of the ex●led english church at amsterdam : ) written against two errours of the anabaptists maintained by them at this day . the one concerning the bap●isme of children , the other concerning the anabaptismes of elder people , what specious shewes so ever they make , saith hee , perverting the scriptures , filling their mouthes with falshood and blasphemy , abusing the people of god , reproaching and challenging all such as stand against their errors and heresies , goliah like , defying israel : yet saith my authour , their opinions are such as pervert the gospell of jesus christ , bereave the church of the grace and favours of god , to young and old , &c. first for his grounds and reasons for the baptisme of children ▪ he alleadged seven . . because it is the commandement of god to give the signe and seale of his covenant of grace to his people and their seed , in their infancy , throughout their generations . which ordinance of the lords hath never been repealed , but abideth stablished upon a certain and perpetuall ground , which is , his promise and covenant of grace made with the faithfull and their seed for ever . . because christ hath confirmed the same , when he sent forth his apostles , and appoynted them to make all the natitions disciples , and to baptize them into the name of the father , the son , and the holy ghost . for to make gentiles disciples , is by the gospel , to bring them unto the covenant of god , made with abraham the father of many nations , for salvatition , through the name of our lord jesus christ. which being a covenant everlasting , and including the faithfull and their seed , ( baptisme which did now succed and seale it , in stead of circumcision ) was therefore by this appoyntment of christ , to be administred unto all that should be brought and comprehended under that covenant of grace : and consequently , both to such as were of yeares , coming to the faith of christ , and to their children , being yet infants . otherwise the gentiles should not with the jewes bee made co-heriters , and of the same body , and joynt-partakers of the promise of god in christ , as the scripture teacheth . . because is was the apostles practice , at the publishing of the gospell through the world , to baptize both the house-holders themselves that believed , and their housholds also : like as abraham himselfe first believed , and then was circumcis●d ; & all his family with him : and as the strangers of the gentiles , which received the faith of the jewes , was circumcised likewise , with all the males that were his . . because children of beleevers are holy , and are abrahams seed and heires by promise of the kingdom of heaven . and who can then with-hold the baptisme of water from them , to whom god vouchsafeth the baptisme of his spirit , and the blessing of abraham to an inheri●ance everlasting . . because baptisme is the lords signe of his washing away of our sins , receiving of us into the church , and incorporating of us into christ , for salvation by his death and resurrection . whereof the children of believers are partakers , as wel as they which be of yeares ; and therefore can no more be deprived of baptisme ▪ then of remission of sins , entrance into the church , ingraffing into christ , and salvation by his meanes . . because there is one ba●tisme , as there is one body , and one mediator , and confirmer of our covenant of grace to the faithfull , and their seed in all ages , so as therefore one and the same baptisme pertaineth to the children of the faithfull , together with the parents themselves , as they ere also one and the same body with them , having one and the same mediator and ra●ifier of gods covenant of grace unto them , even jesus christ the head and saviour of his church , which is his body , the fulnesse of him that filleth all in all things . . because else the grace of god to his people is now since christs comming in the flesh lessened and straitned more then before : which to affirme , is highly to derogate from the grace of god , the fulnesse of christ and his gospel , the comfort of christians , and contrary to that which is written , col. ▪ . that baptisme received in the apostaticall churches of christians , as in rome , and the like , is not to be renounced ; and a new to be repeated again . . because there is no precept nor example for , and therefore not from heaven . . because there is one baptisme , as , one circumcision : as in the apostasie of israel circumcision was not repeated again , they returning . in like manner baptisme being once received in the apostaticall churches of christians is not to be repeated . . because the covenant of gods grace in christ is an everlasting covenant . . because christ dyed for sin once and being raised from the dead dyeth no more ; and we are buried with him by baptisme into his death , to be graf●ed with him in the similitude of his resurrection : wherefore all that are once baptized into his name ▪ ought still to retaine it , and not repeat it any more . . because the church of rome was espoused to christ in the covenant of grace by the gospell of salvation , having baptisme and the rest of christs ordinances in the apostles dayes , and have ever since retained it , with other grounds of christian religion , notwithstanding all her adulteries and apostasies whereinto she is falne . . because god hath his people in the romish babylon : and when he calleth them out from thence , doth not enjoyne them to leave whatsoever is there had , but requireth of them to have no communion with their sins . now baptisme is not of her adulteries but of christs o●dinance . . because else men might by the same reason also not retain the articles of faith : the learning of scripture , or the translations thereof ; and also be perswaded to d●ssolve such marriages which have been had by their ministerie , with other as strange consequences ; which to admit were unlawfull . now howsoever the brownists comply with the anabaptists in many things , as you shall ●ee afterwards ; yet in these poynts mr. iohnson , and some other of them disagree from them , counting these their opinions abominable . in describing of the brownists i purpose to set downe : . their originall , and why called brownists . . called also separatists , and why . . their agreement with the donatists . . their agreement with the anabaptists . . great in●ovators . . some of their errors set downe by mr. white . . they are bitter railers . . magnifie their owne sect. . criminate the dutch and french churches . . they pretend scripture . . blame our congregation for prophanenesse . . the prophanenesse , impietyl , dissentions , and lewdnesse of their own sect. . their equivocating and palliating their owne wickednesse . . blame the conversations of our ministers . . except against our ministers ordination . . noveltie of their ordinations . . their singing of psalmes . . their prophesying . . their blaming set prayers . . their blaspheming the lords prayer . . the tyranny of the separation . . divers sorts of brownists . . how great a sin schisme is . . how they have been suppressed and punished in times past . . mr. scots description of a brownist . . of the semi-separatists . . their originall . these sectaries are called brownists from on● master robert brown , a northamptonshire man , who was schoolemaster of the free-schole of st. olaves in southwark , this browne seducing certaine people , preached to them in a gravel-pit neare islington ; ( and by their tenets was not the holy catholike church of god included at that time in the for●said gravell-pit ? ) also when the whimseyes came first into his head ? he was advised by some of his friends to conferre with master fox ; and having been with him , he reported that hee had been with a mad-man , who thrust him out of his doores , telling him that he would prove a fire-brand in gods church . before his departure out of the kingdome he acquainted also one mr. greenham , a pious divine with his intentions , who disswaded him from his separation , using many reasons to stay him ; among others , that what grace he had received , hee had it from the church of england ; but finding him obstinate , he told him that for himselfe he doubted not ( although he went away in his hot zeale ) but that being better informed , he might returne againe unto his mother church ; but bad him bethinke himselfe what should become of those poore soules whom he had seduced , and was carrying away . master greenham's words preved true : for master browne returned , god giving him grace to renounce his errors ) and dyed lately a member of the church of england , being parson of a church in northampton shire ; but his sect remaineth to the great disturbance of our church : for those errors that browne recanted and vomited up , many male-contented simple men supped up and swallowed downe , poysoning their selves and others . . called also separatists . these sectaries are also called separatists , and this name they arrogate to themselves , like the pharisees of old ; and wel may they be called separatists , because they separate themselves not onely from their mother-church in which they were baptized ; and brought up , and fed with the pure milke of gods word ; but also from all the reformed churches beyond the seas , for they carry their simple seduced people not to any of those holy churches to bee members of their congregations ; but to conventicles , for which they are termed by a learned man separata factio defectorum . . they may also be called separaticts , not onely by reason of the separation they make from the church of england , and all other the reformed churches ; but also by reason of the grievous separations and divisions they make among themselves : for example sake ; what an evill spirit of hatefull and fiery contention was raised between the brothers , the iohnsons , which burnt up both spirituall and naturall love ; as the one of them , being the younger , forgetting his profession and brotherly love became a libeller , loading his brother and others with reproaches , shame and infamy , and that iin print to abide for ever , as master thomas white in his discovery of brown●sme doth relate ? the other separated himselfe , and broke fellowship with his brother and father , and cursed them with all the curses in gods book : this separation was confimed by the heavy sentence of excommunication , by which he ●id give his father and brother to the devill . the dutch and french ministers in amsterdam went about to reconcile francis iohnson and his father , as appeareth by their letter : narravit-nobis io●nnes i●●sonius anglus se hominem septuagena●●um ex anglia in hanc vrbem difficili itinere venisse , ut duos filios suos , franciscum , & georgium dissidentes in gratiam reduceret . &c. but their labour was in vaine ; his sonne francis pe●sisting obstinately untill the death of his father , sending him downe to the grave with a curse , as if it were engraving the sentence of excommunication upon his fathers tombe , &c. . agree with the donatists . the separatists or brownists agree in many things with the donatists , who confined the holy catholike church to a corner of africa , as the brownists doe confine the church of god to their conventibles , excluding all other christians pale of the church that are not o● their sect. may not i say , to these brow●●sts , as constantine the e●perour to acefius : capa scalas & ascende coelum solus take ladders and mount heaven alone ; who dreame that t●ey have ladders or something else to en●er heaven alone ? they believe not ( with the donatists ) the article of faith , viz. that ●he church of god is catholike , but uncharitably put all the christians of the world into the estate of damnation th●● are not of their sect. of their agreement with the donac●sts , master gifford late minister of the word of god at malden , hath set forth a treatise at large , which you may puruse if you please . . they comply with the anabaptists . th● separatists doe comply in many things with the anabaptists , & these maximes following they have from them . as they separate themselves from the papists ; so also from all protestant churches . they affirme , that theirs is the true church onely , and the gospell to be no where truely preached but by them . to receive the communion with prophane persons is to par●ake of 〈◊〉 prop●anenesse . that all 〈◊〉 preach ; having gifts . that in the church there should be a par●ty . they dislike marriages in churches , and to serve god in churches that have been polluted by the papists . whereas the anabaptists forbeare one petition of the lords prayer , viz. forgive us our trespassas , the brownists refuse the whole lords prayer . although they beare with temporall magistrates ; yet they abhor spirituall government . lastly , they like not payment of tythes ▪ reserved by god himself for the for the maintenance of his ministers , paid before the law , commanded in the law , and allowed by christ himselfe , matth. . but disallowed by the anabaptists . * . they are innovators . may not these separatists be also called novat●res , by reason of the great innovations made by them ? they can not abide no old things heretofore used in gods church . they cannot abide our fonts , nor our churches , ( steeple-houses some call them ) nor our bels , ( i hear of a sect that are called together by a sow-gelders horne ) nor our marriage , nor our administration of the sacraments in our churches , nor our burials , nor our prayers taken out of holy scriptures , and commanded by christ himselfe , as the lords prayer . . some of their errors set down by mr. white . . they hold it lawfull for a man to live with her that is not his wise , ●ather then to reveale himselfe . . that there are qualities in god no● essentiall , and that love in god is not of his being , but that the selfe same love that is in god is 〈◊〉 in us . . that i● is not lawfull for the innocent parties to retain the offendor as the wife the husband , or the husband the wife of either party that hath committed adultery ; though the innocent party upon the others repentance forg●ving the other sinne , bee desirous still to live with the other party in marriage covenant , as before , but have excommunicated the parties innocent for so doing . . bitter railers . these new sectaries are bitter railers , and especially upon their mother the church o● england , calling her apostate israel , sodom , bobylon , murthering step-mothers , idolatrous antich●istian &c. they judge and condemne them that are better then themselves , far excelling in the gifts and graces of god ; yea they condemne and sl●nder our whole nation , as a false church , false christians , a synogogue of satan , a people in a damnable estate , exempting none : neither the learned'st , nor the holiest , but condemne all . th●y boast much of the spirit but by their virulent and venomous tongues you may see what spirit is in them , viz. that spirit that ruleth in the children of disobedience . michael t●e arch-angel durst not give the devill such cursed language as the brownists give their mother , the poyson of aspes are under their lips . barrow and greenwood were possessed with a spirit of railing and scoffing , terming set prayers the smoak of the bottomlesse pit ; preaching preachment and sermocination ; the preachers deliverie of the word , the distilling and dropping downe of old parables from his mouth ; the time of preaching , disputing with the houre-glasse , the pulpit a prescript place like a tub , solemne fasts hyporiticall fasts , and a stage-play wherein one playeth sin , another judgement , another the gospell , the singing of psalmes harmonizing of pleasant ballads ; our churches styes , & our baptisme adulterate baptisme ; the receiving the holy sacrament of the lords supper a two-penny feast ; the worship of god idolatry , and us idolaters , yea sodomites , canaanites , beliamites , chamites● cainites . . magnifie their sect. as these sectaries villefie others , so they magnifie themselves , like those men of whom the prophet speaketh , isa. . stand further off ▪ i am holier then thou . and with the pharisee ▪ they tha●ke god that they are not lik● other men . or with s●mon magus gave out that they are the great power of god. these cry up their owne sect to the skies . on mr. bernard ( saith mr. robinson ) if ever you saw the beauty of sion , and ●he glory of god filling his taber●acle , it hath beene in the manifesta●ion of d●vers graces of god in our church in that heavenly harmony and comely order , wherein by the grace of god we are set a●d walke . likewise heare mr. smith : oh mr. bernard , if you knew but the power and comfort of gods ordinance as we doe , &c. touching both these boasters of their popular government , hear the censure of mr , iohnson , who sheweth them to be korites , a bellious rout , pleaders for confusion , &c. also mr. daniel studl●y , mr. iohnsons second , describeth mr samuel fuller a deacon of mr. robinsons company with his friends to be ignorant idiots , noddy nabalites , dogged doegs , fainfaced pharisces , shamelesse shimeites , malicious machavilians . . criminate the dutch and french church . in their separations they carry not their seduced people from us to the dutch or french , nor to any reformed churches to have communion , they are as malevolent to dutch and french churches as to us : many crimes they do lay upon them , as for example . . that their assemblies are so contrived , that the whole church continue●h not together , so that the ministers cannot ●ogether with their flock sanctifie the lords day . the presence of the members cannot be knowne , and finally no publick action , whether excommunication or any other cannot bee rightly done : can they say worse of us ? the lords day cannot be rightly observed , nor presence nor absence known , nor any holy action rightly performed : what can there be in their churches but meere confusion ? see what dirt these separatists cast upon the church that harboureth them . . they baptize the seed of them that are no members of the visible church , of whom they have no care as of members , neither admit their parents to the lords supper . is not this mee● babylonisme ? how is the church of amsterdam separated from the world ? . that rule and commandement of christ , matth. . . if thy brother offend thee , goe and tell his fault , &c. they neither observe , nor suffer to be observed : behold , what they complain of us , they find the same in the church of amsterdam . . they worship god in the idol temples of anti-christ , so that the wine is marred with the vessels , is not this an abhomination ? yea , the anti-christian stones have some of them the ornaments of the roma● harlot upon them remaining . . their ministers have set maintenance . . ty●hes , or a maintenance as ill : tythes were commanded by god , and never repealed ; but this they have lea●n● of their tutors the anabaptists . . their elders change yearely , which is not according to the doctrine of the apost●es ; what ? can our church have wor●e then false governours ? . they celebrate marriage in the church , is not this a foul fault ? is it not better to be married in the congr●gation with prayers and gods blessing pronounced upon them by the minister , then to be contracted privately , and 〈◊〉 into a booke as men doe horses in smithfield ? . they use a new censure of suspension which christ hath not appointed : a great presumption , s●y they . . they receive unrepentant excommunicants to bee members of thir church , by which meanes they become the body with them that are delivered over to satan . thus these seperatists besmeare the church at amsterdam : yea , they count it a great apostacy for one of them so much as once to heare a sermon in any of the dutch or french churches . . pretend scripture . and whereas they doe pretend scripture for their novelties while the world standeth ( saith a learned man ) it connot be shewed out of gods sacred book , that he hath commanded any of these following : . l●t all decisions , excommunications , yea , and ordinations be performed by the multitude . . let evey assembly have a doctor and a pastor distinct in charge and office . . let private christians agree among themselves to set over themselves a postor chosen by themselves . . to this i may adde ; where or when did our lord take the keyes from the church and give them to the multitude ? how dare any lay-man presume to ordaine ministers to binde and loose ? &c. . thy avoyd our congregations as prophane . one speciall cause of their separation they pretend to be the mixt congregations of men , holy and prophane , with whom they will nor communicate , lest they should be defiled . you have heard of the resemblances that have been made of gods church : as namely , it is compared to a field , in which are some tares as well as whea● : to a net , wherein are contained bad fish as well as good ; to a fold , having in it goats as well as sheep : yet is not the field to be spo●led because of tares ; nor the net to be broken because of the bad fish ; nor the fold to be broken because of the goats : no , we are not to depart from any church of christ for any scandall given to us by the members and professors therein , except for extreame errors of doctrine , or ungodly practises professed in it . . the proph●nenesse of their sect. this fault they finde with the protestants of our congregations ; but how they have avoyded this in their own conventicles , mr. white , mr. iohnson , and mr. smith , and many others will tell you , whose plentifull reports of their known uncleanenesse , smothered mischiefs , malicious proceedings , corrupt preachings , communicating with known offenders , bolstering of sins , and willing co●nivences , as they are shamefull to relate ; so they might well have stopt their mouthes from excepting against our communion with the prophane . to use some of mr. whites words , these that pretend such sincerity of religion , doe abound above others with all kinde of debate , malice , adulteries , cozenage , uncleannesse , so that ( saith he ) that w. c. complained that hee had thought that they had been ●ll saints ; but , i see , they are all devills . these are the assemblies to which they carry the poore soules whom they doe seduce . extracted out of a letter of master whites the th of july . i desire god to keep all people from such a congregation , where adulteries , cozenages , and thefts are in such abundance as in the english congregation of amsterdam : that i speak not of brokerage of whores , and other filthinesse , too too bad . this is true , there is no sect in amcterdam ( though many in such contempt for filthy life as the english are , viz. the brownists , &c. the author of this letter , master white , was sued for slander by francis iohnson , henrie aainsworth , francis blakewell , daniel studley , christopher bowman , iane nicolas , iudith holder , william barbons , and thomas bishop . but after master white had brought in witnesses before the burgomasters , who did testifie , & upon their oathes and depositions confirme what master white had written , he was discharged , and had charges given him by the magistrates . a briefe discovery under the hand of the secretary and seale of the city of amsterdam . . of some of the abhominations dayly practised and increased amongst the english company of the separation , remaining for the present at amsterdam in holland . . that they abou●d above all others , with all kinde of debate , malice , adulteries , cozenages , and such other like enormities , &c. the testimony of the dutch church concerning the brownists , when as they sent their messengers with some questions to their eldership , they received this answer from them ; that they did not acknowledge theirs to be an ecclesiasticall assembly , or a la●full church . the testimony of the magistrates of amsterdam concernin● the brownists , both of old , in their suit against master white , and now in their late suit for their meeting-house , when they sought to lay their action in the name of a church ; they were repelled by the magistrates that are members of the dutch church ; they would not receive complaint from them in the name of a church , or in the name of an elder , or a deacon ; but from private men ; the magistrates told them , that they held them not as a church , but as a sect. . their equivoca●ing . i might here set down their●●quivoca●ing and palliating their wickednesse , as one geoffry wh●●acres of master iohnsons congregation , being found in bed with one iudith holder , another mans wife ; for which matter he affirme● that he did it not to satisfie his lust ; but to comfort iudith , being ●ickly , and to keep her warme : as though hee had sought to performe a christian duty of love , and not an action of uncleannesse . again , when mr. studley , a chie●e prophet of mr. iohnsons congregation , was found hidden behind a baske● in iudiths house , he had this holy pretence ; that he hid himselfe to see the behavio●● of g. p. who ca● thither after him : he being an elder , would be a watchfull over-seer . again , m. ● being in a whore-●●use ▪ and creeping out at a window , the elder d. s. excused ●im alledging in his def●nce the example of st. paul , a●ts . . who was by the disciples let down over the wal ; ●n a basket. mr. iohnson sought to cleare the uncleannesse of a man found a bed with another mans wife ; to dimini●h the sin distinguished between lying with a woman , and in a woman . and old father brown being reproved for beating his old wife distinguished , that he did not beate her as his wife , but as a curst old woman . also da●iel studley , went about to palliate his filtinesse with his wives daughter , ungodlily alledging the holy scripture . let it not be offensive to the good reader to see a childe to vindicate the foule aspersions cast upon his mother , from whom he had his soules spirituall birth and breeding , by setting forth by what manner of men his mother-church is scandalized . . blame the conversation of our ministers . againe , although in the visible church the evill ever mingled with the good , and sometime the evill have chief authority in administration of the word and sacraments ; yet forasmuch as they doe not the same in their owne name , but in christs , and doe administer by his commission and outhority , we may use their ministery both in hearing the word of god ▪ and receiving the sacraments ; neither is the effect of christs ordinance taken away by their wickednesse , nor the grace of gods gifts diminished from such as by faith rightly doe receive the sacraments administred unto them : the scribes and pharisees ( saith our lord ) sit in moses chaire ; all therefore what they bid you observe , doe you , but not after their works , for they say and doe not . . except against our ordination . they except against our ministers , because they receive their ordination from bishops . to which i answer , wee have our ordination from christ by bishops and clergie-men ; and for this kinde of ordination by bishops and presby●ers we have the universall cons●nt the primitive church ; by st. paul , timothy , and titus were ordained . and this has been the practice of all the christian churche ▪ of the universe untill the time that anabaptists crept into the world . but they will alledge , that we have been ordained by antichristian bishops , and therefore they conclude every action done by our ministers to be antichristian . . to which i answer ; why is not the ordination that our fore-fathers had from antichristian bishops as effectuall as the bap●isme that was administred by them to our fore-fathers ? d●d ever any reformed church re-baptize them that were baptized by them ? and why should our ministers be re-ordained mo●e then re-baptized . . indeed our ministers being ordained by bishops and that by protestant bishops , such as cranmer , latimer , and ridley , who were holy martyrs , who renounced all superstition ; what exceptions can be taken against them ? neither can they find any shelter under that ●oted te●t , neglect not the gift that is in thee by the imposition of the hands of the presbyter ; which learned mr. calvin expounds n●t of the men , but of the office following : herein hierome , anselm● , ha●mo , lyra , referring it to the gift given him , and to the bishops & pre●byters , which hath been the practice of the church of england , and all christian churches in the world untill the anabaptists . to conclude , let the brownists confesse our b●shops to be but christians , which they cannot deny , and the ordination of our ministers will be lawfull by their owne rules : for if the ordination of their ministers by pl●beian artificers be lawfull how much more is the ordination of our ministers by bishops and learned ministers , qualified with learning and wisedome , and set apart to doe the same . . brownists ordination . but let them shew who devised their ordination of ministers ; i dare say , not christ , nor his apostles , nor their successors . what church in the whole world can be produced unlesse in case of necessity , whose conspiring multitudes made them ministers at pleasure ? what rule of the church prescribeth it ? what reformed church ever did it , or doth practise it ? what example warrants it ? where have the in●eriours presumed to lay their hands upon their superiours ? it is an old policy of the faulty to complain first ; certainly , there was never popish legend a more errand device of man then some parts of this ministery of theirs , so much gloried in for sincere correspondency with the first institution . . for their singing . for their singing of psalmes it is almost left among them , for in master iohnsons assembly they had new r●ymes , but in so harsh and hard a phrase , that the people knew not what they meant ; so that they could not sing with understanding . . these being in use , and the coppies being kept from the people ; by that means singing of psalmes was kept from the people , and sh●t out of private houses . . againe , by reason of the uncouth and strange translation and meetre used in them , the congregation was made a laughing-stock unto strangers . master daniel studley pleaded for the continuance of those rhimes , the congregation complaining of them : for ( saith my author ) he had a good veine in making thimes , especially filthy and obscene ones , which he taught unto little children his schollers , and to mistris may , who used in her house to sing such songs , being more fit for a common bawde , then for a person professing the pure separation . they object against all the churches in amsterdam , that they have organs to modulate their voices in singing : sure i am , the separatists also had need of somewhat , as a bag-pipe , or somewhat never used by antichrist to tune them , singing in their conventicles like hogs against raine . here i might aske some questions , viz. why singing set psalmes doth not confine the spirit , ( we being commanded to sing with the spirit ) as much as saying set prayers ; and why the brethren inspired with the spirit , doe not every day sing a new song , as make a new prayer , which are set prayers to the people ? and why the people may not pray together with the minister ( as it was the custome of al christian churches ) as sing together : and lastly , why lay-men doe not pray in the church aswel as preach or prophesie in the church : do they not in forbidding the people to pray with the minister , as the papists do in depriving the people of the cup in the sacrament , and that for the honour of the priest-hood ? . of their prophecying . as the illuminated anabaptists are called preachers , so the fanatick brownists take upon them to be prophets , and to preach the word of god with all authority publikely in their congregations : st , panlasketh , how they can preach , except they be sent ? and this standeth to good reason , every true preacher standeth in gods roome , being the lords embassador to doe his will : who dares doe this unsent ? these come not from the schooles of the prophers ; but from mechanick trades , & set them down in moses chaire , as embassadors of jesus christ , as heralds of the most high god : these take upon them to reveale the secrets of the almighty , to open & shut heaven , to save soules , but to hear these fellowes discourse of the holy trinity , of gods eternal decree , & other deep poynts of divinity , you may hear the mad-men in bedlam prare as wisely as they : may not almighty god say to these mad prophets , what hast thou to doe to take my word in thy mought ? &c. of their confused preaching , or rather prating , heare mr. simpson complaine , and especially of the prophets in master ainsworths church : for our manner , ( saith he ) of meeting upon the lords day , it is with such a confusion and contradiction with one another , that our profession of separation may be overthrowne by it : for example , thomas cochi in his prophesie witnessing against england , their ministery is anti-christian , and being so , cannot beget true faith ; and where there is no true faith , there is no true salvation , a fearefull sentence in my judgemnt ! again , our beloved , mr. de cluse in his prophesie laboured to prove separation from a true church for any corruption , obstinately stood in this doctrine , was by another in prophecying there shewed to be absolutely contrary to the place , rev. . . which how unsoundly it was concluded by our teacher ▪ was ●●en observed by many : also it was since by another delivered in the way a● prophesie , that even among our selves did reigne in my 〈◊〉 as namely , fulnesse of bread pride and idlenesse ; 〈…〉 , in that they were not satisfied with neither temporall nor ●pirituall food ; pride ▪ in that many did strive to goe beyond their calling ; idlenesse , in that many were negligent in their callings , if these things be so , and be not redressed by the 〈◊〉 of this pro●hesie ▪ we must , ( according to mr. de●cluse his doctrine ) make a new s●paration , how oft doe the br●thre● except one against anothers prophecying , by which , much heart-burning and strife is ●indl●d between them ? th●se thi●gs being well considered , i pray you well to minde whether this new way of prophecying on the lords day can be ●or the edification of the church or not . for this new prop●●ying of the lay people , read a treatise newly set forth by 〈◊〉 apol●nij . . they will use no set formes of prayer . they finde fault with set formes of prayers , and this also they learne of the anabaptists , who having burnt all the books in munster , and in the dominions of king iohn of z●●on ( except the bible ) were compelled either to pray without book , which they call praying with the spirit , or not at all : moreover , the anabaptists were so ignorant , as lambertus hortensi●● reporteth , that among the numerous multitude of them 〈◊〉 was not one found ( as it was credibly reported ) that could read . so they being not able to pray within book , but all without book : they have with the brownists invented divers arguments against set prayers . they pretend set prayers to be a device of man , a muzling of the spirit , a nurse of idlenesse , and a meanes to neglect the gra●es of god that are in them ▪ whereas they pretend extemporary prayers to be the work of the spirit : whereas rather thereby they ●●zzell the spirit of the people , being tyed to the ex tempo●e and 〈◊〉 prayers of the ministers . yea , the brownists g●e fa● bey●nd the anabap●●sts ; aff●●ming set prayers to be abhominable in the eyes of almighty god. to this ●●●answer ; whatsoever god hath ordained is neither abhominable nor loathsome to him ; but god hath ordained set prayers ▪ therefore they are not abominable no● loathsome . that god hath ordained set prayers ▪ see num. . ▪ . yee shall blesse the child●en of israel , saying unto them , the lord blesse thee and keep thee , the lord make his face to shine upon t●ee and be gracious to thee , the lord lift up his countenance upon thee and give thee peace , againe , deut. . . and thou shalt speake , and say before the lord thy god , a sy●ian ready to perish was my father . the . psalme is a prayer , even the prayer of moses , and and used in the jewish church , as we use the lords prayer . all the psalmes of david ▪ except some that are doctrinall ) are prayers , and have beene , and shall be read in the church of god , ma●gre all the heriticks and schismaticks in the world. in the gospell are many set prayers daily read in the church ; what ? are all these abhominable ? all the ancient churches in the world , planted by the apostles ▪ have set prayers ; as the greek church , to whom st. paul preached ; the indians , to whom st. thomas brought the ●ight of the gospel ; the ethiopians ; to whom st. mark brought the knowledge of christ ; the muscovites , who affirme , that they received the truth from s● . andrew : these , with all ancient churches have set prayers : their liturgies are to be seen . yea all the reformed churches ; the du●ch , the french , the dan●sh , the swedish , the scot●ish &c have set prayers ; onely these sectaries will speak to god ex tempore . in my christianography you may see d●vers liturgies : as a liturgy attributed to st. iames●he ●he first bishop of ●erusalem , set forth by victorius sc●at●●us the maronite , the apd●●le iames was commonly called iacobus liturgus , that is , iames the service-maker , which beginneth , o lord doe not despise me defiled with the multitude of my sins , &c. again , the service the muscovites use , taken out of the commentaries of sigismund liberus . the ethiopian liturgie or service , written by francis alvares . the cop●s liturgy set forth by kircherus . the armenian service , set downe by odoardus bar●osa . the armenian service , set downe by peter bellonius , lib. . cap. . the liturgy of severus , sometime patriarch of alexandria , written in syriak , and translated into latine by guido subritius . but to shew you a patterne of some of their new prayers ; one of them cryeth out in his prayer ; o lord , thou knowe●● , good lord , that we never had the truth preached among us untill now . &c. whereas the doctrine of the church of england is gods truth , as the learned assembly of divines doe restifie , howsoever in our discipline there may need reformation . another cryeth out in his prayer ; good lord , good lord , deliver this congregation from this man , who is unlearned , unpowerfull , unprofitable , &c. this spirituall prayer was made for my selfe , in my owne church , in my owne pulpit , in my owne hearing . to conclude this with the counsell of the holy ghost ; bee not rash with thy mouth , nor let thine heart be hasty to utter a thing before g●d , for god is in the heavens , and thou art 〈◊〉 the earth : therefore let thy words be few : for as a dreame commeth by the multitude of businesse ; so the voyce of a foole is known by many words . . they quarrell at the lords prayer . but what need i complaine of their blaspheming of set prayers ? whereas our lord taught his disciples a set forme of prayer , the perfectest and exactest of all that can bee made , it being compiled by the sonne of god , who is the wisedome of the father . for perfection , it containeth all that can be asked , or prayed against . for acceptation , it containeth the words of christ the son of god , in whom the father is well pleased . these sectaries quarrell at this prayer , and will nor say it ; as barrow & greenwood affirme it to be abominable , and as lo●thsome unto god as swines-flesh to a jew . apollina●ius the heritick equalled his songs with holy scripture : but i never heard of any heretick that●prefer'd his owne works before holy scripture : doe not these heriticks preferre their owne prayers before our lords ? if our lords pr●yer be better then theirs , why doe they not say it according to our lords commandement , luke ? or if they will pray after the same manner as is commanded , matth. . why doe they use so many vaine repetitions there by him forbidden ? i have read that st. peter used no other prayer at the communion , but this prayer which his master taught him ; and the greeks in calabria used the same : but now it is not used by some at the ministration of the sacrament . i am sure this prayer is perfect , and all other devised by them not so perfect . let us not neglect that perfect forme which our lord hath left us , or pray at least-wise after that manner , not using vaine repititions by him forbidden , as before . . of the tyranny and ill-usage of some of them to their vvives and servants . many there be that are taken in the b●iars of this propane schisme , that wish they had never met with the separation of that schismaticall body , and would flye , so that they might escape without excommunication , with which they ter●ifie them so , that they dare not so much as whisper , or as much as ●uffe against it . you may read in the boook called ( the prophane schisme of the brownists ) how cruelly also they used their servants for not doing their taskes ; as some they hang up by the hands , and whip them stark naked , being women grown ; yea they spare not the●r wives , but correct them , read the story of seudley , and mansfield . it may be they learn● this of their patriarch , father browne , who would cu●stly correct his old wife , as before . . there are divers sorts of separatists . there are divers sorts of these sectaries ; for every day begets a new fancy or opinion , it ●a●ing with them usually as with all other hereticks , who having once forsaken the truth , wander from one error to another : as mr. smith , one of their grandees , from a protestant he turned brownist ; and from a brownist he turned anabaptist ; yea , a sebaptist , and re-baptized himselfe . the first sort of separatists affirme the abominations of the church of england to be so great , that they will ●ot come within their church doores to heare any of their ministers , but ●y themselves wholly to their owne conventicles . the root of this sect was one mr. robert browne , before named : from whom are risen many sects , for every day begets a new fancy and conceit . these say that england was once the lords wi●e , but that he hath given her a bill of divorce and put her away . these deny all communion with her ; but private communion they hold lawfull with her members . as for the ancient company of brownists that were under the feeding of master browne himselfe , they were swept away as dung by the testimony of master george iohnson , and not one of them left alive that continued faithfull , but became apostates . the second sort of brownists may bee called barrawists from their protomartyr barrow , whose censures are more desperate then the former , who say that the church of england is sodome , babylon , and aegypt , and that shee was never the lords wife , nor he her husband ; but that she is at the best a murthering step-mother ; therefore they say , what communion hath light with darknesse ? ●hrist with belial ? beleevers with infidels ? and therefore they proclaime the former sect , ( for not judging the church of england so desperately as they judge her ) to be partakers of her adulteries , and that they must receive of her plagues . of this sect barrow was the father ; afterwards greenwood , brewer , bois , rutter . a third sort of brownists did arise from one mr. wilkinson , whose disciples in a short time grew so strong in the spirit that they stoutly affirmed that they were apostles , as peter , & paul , and the rest ; and therefore deny communion with all others that will not give them that title . a fourth sort of brownists , who say that there is not any one true church in the world but themselves , because they say , that they are married to christ by that one true baptisme which consiste●h of persons confessing of faith and their sinnes ; and all other churches that baptize infants are but synagogues of satan , and have never made covenant with christ , & therefore they call the brownists for retaining the baptisme of children as very a harlot as rome or the church of england . so name they the brownists , romes fairest daughter , and proclaim , that all that will be saved must come to them to be re-baptized ; and condemne all other worship to be antichristian , divellish , and ob●oxious to the wrath everlasting . of these , there are many sects and heresies you shall finde in the description of the anabaptists . many other sects of bronists there are , as the iohnsonians and their teners , who commenced a ●uit in amsterdam against the ainsworthians , for their meeting house or synagogne granted to the brownists after the rending of that conventicle asunder . the iohnsonians pleaded the synagogue belonged unto them , they being the ancient brownists : the ainsworthians answered , that the house belonged to them , they being the true brownists , because they held the ancient faith upon which their church was grounded , from which master iohnson and his company had fallen into apostacy , and therefore could not bee the true church ; and they set forth a writing of the articles forsaken by master iohnson . i might speake also of robinson and his company ; which robinson protesteth against both the former , affi●ming mr. iohnso●s company to be bastardly runnaga●es , miserable guides , engrossers of the keyes , arrogant zidkias laying the corner-stone of babylon ; lucian or scoffing atheists ; schismaticks , making the church of god a cypher ; a hangby wanting an honest heart , like chancellours and officials captivating of the church ; either marked servants of the pope , or such as care not what they say for some present advantage , using a power more execrable and accursed . master smith and his disciples doe at once as it were swallow up all the separation besides , protesting against their false constitutions , false worship , false ministers , and false governours . i might here also set downe the heresies of mr. thomas lemar described by mr. padget , with this title . the monster of lemarisme . this monster is set downe with seven heads . . mahometanisme , in that lemar denyed the holy trinity and eternall god-head of christ. . iudaisme , in affirmiag that christ should come shortly in his owne person to reigne here upon earth . . papisme , affirming that a meere creature may bee worshipped . . lutheranisme , in maintaining the doctrine of consubstantiation . . anabaptisme , in affirming that christ took not flesh of the virgin mary . . libertanisme , in holding that there is no visible church upon earth . . brownisme , in holding the doctrine of separation ; who can recko● up their opinions , they shifting daly ? mr. hancor will have a separation alone . to confirm their several sects & divisions among themselves , i might set down their uncharitable cursing one of another ; not to speek of the manifold curses that flew abroad in mr. barro●s time , nor yet of the manifold curses which the company of brownists remaining in london have oft laid upon one another : consider but those that remaine in the low countreys . mr. iohnson and his company are now accursed and avoided by mr. ainsworth and his company ; mr. ainsworth and his company excommunicated by mr. iohnson , and his company . mr. smith and his company are rejected both of mr. iohnson and mr. ainsworth , mr. robinson and his company holding mr. iohnson and his to be in apostacy . and mr. iohnson him again for taking part in his schisme against him , and by this reckoning , where is almost one of them free from the curse ? as for those stragling brownists that walke alone ; as they avoyd all , so they are avoyded and rejected by all the 〈◊〉 : is not this ( saith my author ) a cursing and a cursed sect. . schisme a great sinne . i ccould by way of counsell advise the●e separatists who forsake the church to consider how great a sin schisme is , viz. greater than murther ; a murther killeth one man or two , but a schismatick goeth about , as much as in him lyes , to destroy the church of god. to depart from the church of england , is a departing from the church of god : let them consider , the church of corinth had many faults in it , as many as the church of england hath , & as great ones too ; & yet was gods church for their faults . st. paul b●ames some there for their civill jars impetuously , they traffering them and their suits to the courts of infidels , cor. . . others for their wicked connivence and indulgence towards the incestuous , cor. . others for their vile prophanenesse in their sacred assemblies , cor. . . yea , others for heresie , cor. . would any brownist think this to be the church of god , but a synagogue of satan ? if our apostle were alive now , ( in which more light hath appeared ) he should be taught by father browne and his disciples , to give the church of corinth a new title , and not paulan apostle of iesus christ to the church of god in corinth . but the example of christ himselfe writing to the seven churches of asia may be our best direction , charging five of them with severall faults , and with crimes of a large size , yet he doth call them churches . moreover , is not the forsaking the church of god , a forsaking of god himselfe . and lastly ▪ is not excommunication one of the greatest punishments of the world , by which a man is cast out of the church ? st. paul cals it a giving to the devill : and doe not they in their separation cast themselves out of the church , and give themselves to the devill ? . how these sectaries have been punished . first , brown their patriarke was taken and laid in the gaol , and his disciples were made to f●ve ; bolton , whom some would make their author , dyed as iudas did ; a he●r . barrow , gent. iohn greenwood clerk , two of the authors of this opinion , that set prayers are abominable ; daniel studley girdler , saxio billet , gent. robert bowlie fish-monger , were indicted of felony at the sessions hall without new-gate , london , before the lord major , and the two lord chiefe justices of both benches , and sundry of the judges and other commissioners of oyer and term●ner . the said barrow and greenwood , for writing sundry seditious seditious books , tending to the slander of the queens majesty and state : studley , billet ▪ and bowly for publishing the said books , on the . day of march they were all arrigned at new-gate , and found guilty , and had judgement : henry barrow and iohn greenwood on the last of march were brought to tiburne in a cart and carried backe againe , and were afterwards hanged on the sixt day of april . and about the same time one penrie , a welch-man , a principal penner and publisher of a book called martine marprelate , was apprehended at st●bben-hea●h , and commited to 〈◊〉 : in the moneth of may he was a●raigned at the king● bench at westminister , condemned of felony , and af●erwards conveyed from the gaole of the kings bench in southwarke to st. thomas waterings , and there hanged : elias thack●r was hanged at st. edmonds-bury in suffolk on the fourth of 〈◊〉 : and iohn copping on the first of the same mo●eth , for spreading of certain seditious books penned by one robert brown against the book of common-prayer established by the laws of the realm , their books as many as could be found , were burnt before them ; examples how this sect was supprest in queene elizabeth 〈◊〉 many . they that would know more of these sectaries , let them read these books following . first , a book called a discovery of brownisme , or a briefe declaration of the errors and 〈◊〉 dayly practised & encreased among the english company of the separation , remaining at this present at amsterdam in holland , by mr. white . a book called the raising of the foundation of brownisme , by s. b. printed by henr. windet . . a plaine decla●ati●n that our brownists be full donatists , by comparing them together from po●nt to point , out of the writings of st. augustine , by george gifford minister of gods word at malden . an apology of the church of england against the brownists , written by doctor hall now lord bishop of norwich . master bernards separatists schisme . the prophane schisme of the brownists or separatists , with the impyety , dissentions● lewd and abominable vices of that impure sect , discovered by christopher lawne , iohn fowler , clement sanders , and robert bulward . item , a book called the shield of defence : written against master de le cluse , in defence of mr. brightman . printed . . mr. tho. scots description of a brownist . the cameleon is in england a f●milist , at amsterdam a brownist . he lives by the ay●e , & there he builds castles and churches ; none on the earth will please him : he would be of the triumphant and glorious church , but not of the ●errene militant church , which is subject to storms , deformities , and many violences and alterations of time : he must finde out sir tho. moores utopia , or rather plato's community , and be an elder there . in this poynt , and in that of resisting civill governours , he seems the same with the romish catholike . but they are tyed only by the tiles , like sampso●s ●oxes , their heads like ●anus , look divers wayes : they are boute●ews , & carry betwixt them a fire-brand to enflame all christendome : they have in their imaginations an idea of such a church , and such keyes as the romanists madly boast they possesse , but they will not have them the same , not to resemble their foolish alchymists : they are both seeking a philosophers stone , and neglecting the true elixa● the corner-stone ; they boast to build gold on the foundation , when what they dawbe on is adulterate stuffe besides the foundation : they begger themselves in seeking for wealth abroad , whilst at home they neglect that pearle of inestimable price , for which the wise merchant gives all that he is worth . if ever i could heare papist clear the pope from being antichrist , and prove he must be one singular person , i would then beleeve that he should not spring from a jew of the tribe of dan , as they fable , but from a promiscuous conjuction betwixt two fugitives to amsterdam and rome . . of the semi-separatists . these halt between two opinions , they are neither wholly for the separation , nor wholly against it . master iacob is said to have been of this sect called iacobites ; and therefore in his writings we finde that he mis-liked our church-government : but in his declaration hee affirmeth ; although ( saith he ) i know they of the separation be very far from being so evill , as commonly they are held to be : yet i deny not but in some matters they are straiter then i wish they were . howsoever in the poynt of separation , i for my part never was , nor am separated from all publike communion with the congregations of england . i acknowledge therefore that in england are true visible churches and ministers accidentally , yea such as i refuse not to communicate with : for his comming to our church , i heard once a minister complaine to me of doctor bancroft bishop of london , for not doing that justice that he would have had him to doe upon mr. iacob , of whom he had complained , ( as far as i remember ) for not kneeling at the communi●n ▪ this 〈◊〉 having prosecuted his complaint , and finding nothing done against mr. iacob , went to the bishop , telling him wh●t a great deale of paines he had taken in vaine , and asking of the bishop what he would counsell him to doe , who bid him goe home and trouble not himself● , but leave such things to his church-wardens . there is a sort of semi-separatists , that will heare our serm●ns , but not our common-prayers ; and of these you may see every sunday in our streets , sitting and standing about our doores ; who when the prayers are done rush into our churches to heare our sermons . of the independents . . why called independents . . their originall . . some of them write and speak against churches . . some against tithes . . would have no set prayers . . nor use the lords prayer . . why called independents . because they teach that everie particular congregation ought to be governed by its owne particular lawes , without any depending of any in ecclesiasticall matters , without obligation , acknowledge classes or synods for its government and conduct . they call themselves the congregational government ▪ as i read . these appella●ons i heard not of when i began to write the treatise . the author of the antidote against independency affirmeth , that by establishing this government in stead of suppressing prelacy , we should erect in our kingdome . prelates , viz. in every parish one . . their originall . the first man of note that held their opinions , ( as master edwards writeth ) was one mr. robinson , who leaving norwich male-content , became a rigid brownist ; but afterwards by conference with learned men , he was brought to some moderation , and writ a book retaining some of his opinions . this man dying , many of his congregation went from leyden unto new-england , and planted at new plymouth , whither they carryed mr. robinsons opinions , which spread far there , and by letters also and other meanes were conveighed into old england : and to this purpose he citeth a letter of mr. cottons . as the brownists ( saith mr. edwards ) growing up , and out of the anabaptists , did refine anabaptisme in many things , so the independents have refined brownisme from the grossenesse and rigidnesse of it . yet in separating from gods ordinance because of our mixt congr●gations : in settti●g up a church against a church : and in 〈…〉 they not with the brownists make a rent in ch●ist● mysticall body . . enemies to our churches . these independents with the brownists , are enemies to our churches , the glory of our nation , the monuments of the piety of our fore-fathers , builded to the honour of almighty god , and for his service . they call them steeple-houses , as you may read mr. cotton in one of his sermons upon the opening of the the seven vialls affirmeth . ichosaphat ( saith he ) took away the high places and groves out of judah , chr. . . so when the zeale of god lifteth up the hearts of the people , then will they not endure a consecrated place in all the world where they come ; and when the seventh viall is poured out , the earth shall be full of the knowledge of god : then all the chappels of ease , churches of states , and temples of glory , where the world hath beene deiuded , they will not leave a stone upon a stone that shall not be throwne dow●e : though now in some places you may not passe through with a burthen , nor look upon the wall thereof . the zeale of the lord of hosts will blow them up , these places will be laid open to the rest of the streets , and become but common soyle , they will not then be regarded , but trempled upon , &c. i am informed that some preach this doctrine among us . . ruine learning . againe to overthrow learning , they would overthrow the maintenance , viz. tithes appoynted by almighty god for the maintenance of his service : as he appoynted a certaine time for his service , so a certaine part for the maintenance of his service : viz. a tenth part which was paid before the law , commanded in the law , and confirmed by our lord and saviour . the persecution of the iulian apostate is affirmed to bee greatest of all other : for whereas in other persecutions they kild the priests , iulian taking away the maintenance from gods service , did occidere presbiterium , the whole order . when i first heard of the name of independency , i confesse i could not well mislike it , knowing the poverty of many livings within the walls of london , and the dependency of the ministers , being not able to subsist without the charities of the people . and for example , among others the tithe of a parsonage of a learned doctor , ( who is accounted one of them ) not to bee worth above . l. per annum towards all charges , and divers others to be of small value : i could not well blame them , if renouncing their tithes , they have devised some other way to subsist . in time of superstition the said living is reported to have been worth about two hundred pound per annum ; by reason of a gang of silly women with childe to the image of our lady of steining ( in that church ) to which they did ●ot with many rich offerings , being perswaded that she could give them easie labour : other churches had their working saints that relieved their parsons , as one could make barren women fruitfull , &c. and for this cause the poore livings in london were so highly rated in the subsidy . and whereas one man had hererofore many livings ▪ which now is prohibited : as my predecessor had three , alhollowes the great , the temple , and edmonds within the line of communication : and also our vailes for burialls and christings is in a manner ceast , which were a great helpe too . should i blame the poora ministers to devise some meanes to have a being : but whereas they gather congregations among us who are as poore as themselves , getting our fattest sheep from us , and for other causes , i like it not . . allow no set prayers , they allow no set prayers . the jewes used set prayers , iohns disciples used set prayers , and christ gave his dissciples a set forme of prayer , which all christian churches in the world generally use . master calvin all●dgeth three reasons for the maintaining of set prayers . first , to provide for the weaknesse of some minister . secondly , that there might be a generall consent and agreement in all churches . thirdly , to crosse the liberty of some ministers , who affect noveities : and therefore it bohoveth to have a set catechisme , a set forme of administring the sacrament , a set forme of publike prayers . for taking too much liberty in their praying , i have had too much sence , being deprecated or execrated by some of them , yea even in my owne church , in my owne pulpit , and in my owne hearing . . use not the lords prayer . againe , some of them will not use the lords prayer , preferring their owne before it . if the lords prayer bee more perfect than theirs , why doe they not use it , but abuse the people , using their owne imperfect prayers , and omitting our lords perfect prayer commanded by him to be used . i have read that apollinaris the heriti●k equalled his writings with the holy scriptures , but preferred them not as these seem to doe , in om●tting christs prayer commanded to be used , and using their owne , as before . to conclude , my prayer to god is , that god would give them grace to use their gifts that he hath given them to edification , and not to make a rent in his church . doctor steward hath written a book , in which is set down the opinion of some of the reformed churches concerning independency . of the familists . this sect of the family of love is one of the most erron●ous and dangerous sect that ever was . the family of love are so called , because they will admit none common among them ; their love is so great that they may joyne with any congregation , and live under obedience to any magistrate , be he never so ungodly , and therefore to ●urry favour with all , they have some opinions agreeable with all in some things . they agree with the turks in some things , with the iewes in some things , with the don●●●sts , palagians , libertines , arians , and anabaptists , in many things with the papists , in few with the protestants . in describing of this sect i purpose to set downe : . their originall or authors . . their horrible blasphemies . . their confession of faith , or creed . . their conversations . . their severall sorts . . how to discover one of this sect. . the abjuration of certaine familis●s at pauls crosse. the first author was one david george of delfe , who fled out of holl●nd●● basill giving it our that he was banished out of the low countreyes ; he changed his name , called himselfe iohn of bridges he affirmed that he was that right david that was sent from god , and should restore againe the kingdome of israel . he wrote divers books as one called the wonder-booke . he broached his damnable heresiee , as : ● . all the doctrines taught by moses , the prophe●s , and christ himselfe were not sufficient to salvation , but only to keep the people in good order till the comming of david george , but his doctrine was able to save all those that put their trust in him . . that he was the right messias , the beloved son of the father , not born of the flesh , but of the holy ghost ; and that when christ was dead according to the flesh , the spirit of christ was left by the fathers appoyntment untill the comming of this david george , and given him . . that he would set up the true house of david , and the children of levi must raise the tabernacle of god through the spirit of christ , not by the crosse and suffering , but through meeknesse and love . . that whosoever speaketh against this doctrine shall never be forgiven in this world , nor in the world to come ; he dyed the . of august , . at which his disciples were much dismayed , for he promised them that he should not dye : or if he did , that he should rise againe , and fulfill all his former promises , whereupon some forsook his heresies . the magistrates being informed of his doctrine and manners , caused his house & the houses of such as were suspected to hold such errours to be searched , his books to be burnt , forseiting his goods and lands ●o the use of the town , causing his followers to recant . after him rose one henry nicholas borne in amsterdam , a towne in holland , of many called henry of amsterdam who took upon him to maintaine the same doctrine , yet not in the name of david but in his owne name , as a prophet sent to rebuke the world of sin and iniquity , naming himself● rest●●r●to● mund● , the restorer of the world . mr. iessop describeth h. n. after this manner , page . they call him the new man , or the holy nature , or holinesse which they make to be christ , and sin to be antichrist , because it is opp●●i●e to christ. they say that when adam sinned then christ was killed , and antichrist came to live . they teach the same perfection of holinesse which adam had before he fell , is to be obtained here in this life , and affirme , that all their family of love are as perfect and innocent as hee , and that the resurrection of the dead spoken of by st. paul , cor. . and this prophesie , then shall be fulfilled the saying which is written ; o death where is thy sting ? o grave where is thy victory ? is fulfilled in them ; and they deny all other resurrection of the body to be after this life . they will have this blasphemer h. n. to be the son of god , christ , which was to come in the end of the world to judge the world , and say that the day of judgement is already come , and that h. n. judgeth the world now by his doctrine ; so that whosoever doth not obey his gospell ( in time ) shall be rooted out of the world , and that this family of love shall inherit and inhabite the earth for ever , world without end : onely they say they shall dye in the body , as now men doe , and their soules goe to heaven , but their posterities shall continue for ever . this deceiver describeth eight through-breakings of the light ( as he tearmeth them ) to have been in eight severall times , from adam to the time that now is , which ( as he saith ) have each exceeded other . the seventh he alloweth iesus christ to be the publisher of , and his light to be the greatest of all that ever were before him ; and he maketh his owne to be the eight and last and greatest , and the perfection of all , in and by which christ is perfected , meaning holinesse ; he maketh every one of his family of love to be christ ; yea , and god , and himselfe god , and christ in a more excellent manner , saying that he is godded with god , and co-deified with him , and that god is hominified with him . these horrible blas hemies with divers others , doth this h. n. & his family teach to be the everlasting gospell : which the angel is said to preach in the rev. . . they professe greater love to the church of rom● , and to all her idolatries and superstitions , then they doe to any church else whatsoever , except themselves . they wickedly abuse these words of christ ; i must walk to day , to morrow , and the third day i shal be perfected : and say , that by to day is meant the time of jesus christ his apostles : and by to morrow , all the time of the religion of the church of rome : and by the third day , this their day of h. n. and his family wherein they will have christ to be perfected . and they doe compare all the whole religion of the church of rome to the law of moses , affirming that as god did teach his prople by these shadowes and types , till jesus christ came ; so hee hath taught the world ever since by the images , sacrifices , and heathen rites of the church of rome , till this wretch h. n. came , and now he must be the onely chiefe teacher , gods obedient man , yea his son ( as they blasphemously call him . ) hee by his gospell must make all things perfect . one christopher viret , a joyner dwelling in southwarke , who had been in queen maries dayes an arian , being infected with hen , nocolas his doctrine , poyso●ed first the english with this heresie : he translated out of dutch into english divers of the books of henr. nicholas , as evangelium regni , out of which and others these errors are collected . . their blasphemous errors . . concerning god ] that there is none other deitie belonging unto god , but such as men are partakers of in this life . . concerning christ ] . that christ is not god. . christ is not one man ; but an esta●e and con●●tion in men , common to so many as have received h. n. his doctrine , &c. . of adam ] that adam was all that god was ; and god all that adam was , &c. . concerning baptisme ] that no man should be baptized untill he was yeares old . . concerning the word ] that there was never truth preached since the apostles time before h. n. . concerning the resurrection ] . the resurrection of the body is a ●ising from sin and wickednesse . . that the dead shall rise and live in h. n. and in the iluminated elders everlastingly and reigne upon earth . . concerning the day of judgement ] . that the day of judgement is in this life . . that the joyes of heaven are here upon earth . . concerning marriage . ] the marriage of such as are not enlightned with true faith is ●●lthy and polluted , and to bee reputed for whoredome . . concerning henry nicolas . ] . he is raised by the highest god from the dead . . he can no more ●rre then moses or christ , &c. . he is the true prophet of god , sent to blow the last trumper of doctrine which shall be published upon earth . . that he onely knoweth the true sense of scripture . . that his books are of equall authority with the holy scripture . through the service of h. n. his holy and gracious word , and our obedience thereunto ; we are led of the father to the love of jesus christ. . that the scriptures are fulfilled in h. n. and his family . . h. n. knoweth the secrets of our hearts . . that all men must submit themselves to the godly wisdome of h. n. &c. . concerning their illuminated elders and family . ] . all illuminated elders are godded with god , or deified ; and god in them hominified , or become man. . the young disciples are adams , and the illuminated elders christs . . the eldest father of the family is christ himselfe . . that the estate of all such as are not of this sect is a false being , the antichrist , the wicked spirit , the kingdome of hell , and the devill himselfe . . the family of love is perfect in this life , and therefore that they must not pray for forgivenesse of sins . . that their illuminated elders doe not sinne . . they may ioyne with any congregation and church , and live under the obedience of any magistrate though never so ungodly . . whatsoever is taught by any other then by their illuminated elders is false : such as despise their family shall bee consumed with everlasting fire . moreover they hold : . that he who is one of their congregation is either as perfect as christ , or else a very divell . . that it is lawfull to doe whatsoever the higher powers command to be done , though it be done against the commandement of god. . that it is ridiculous to say , god the father , god the son , god the holy ghost ; as though by saying these words , they should affirme to be three gods. . that every man ought first to be in an errour before he can come to the knowledge of the truth . . that heaven and hell are present in this world among us , and that there is none other . . that they are bound to give almes to none other persons but to those of their sect , and if they otherwise doe , they give their almes to the divell . . that they ought not to burie their dead : because it is said , let the dead bury the dead . . that none ought to receive their sacraments before he receiveth their whole ordinances , as . he must be admitted with a kisse , then his feet must be washed , then hands laid on him , and so received . . that the angels raphael , and gabriel and others were borne of a woman . . that they ought not to say davids psalmes as prayers , being righteous and without sinne . . that there ought to be no sabbath day , but that all should be alike . . that christ is come forth of the flesh as he came forth of the virgin mary . . that there was a world before adams time as is now . . that the law of god is possible to be kept of every man that will endeavour himselfe thereto . . that it is ●●pedient that they should make manifest their whole heart , with all their counsels , minds , wils , and thoughts , together with all their doings , dealings , and exercises naked and bare before the children of the family of love , and not to cover or hide any thing ( be it was it is ) before him , and what their inclination and nature draweth them unto . in a word , their doctrine is perverse , blasphemous and erro●eous : it openeth a doore to all wickednese , turning religion up-side-downe , building heaven here upon earth , making god man and man god , heaven hell , and hell heaven , not accounting of the law of god , and making but a jest of the gospell of jesus christ , leaving no manner of sin uncommitted , & yet affirming they sin not at all : for venome and poyson which will bring present death to the soule , he hath dispersed over every member and article of the beliefe ; so universall is the poyson of his opinion , as you may see in their confession set down by mr. knewstub . . the confession of familists . i doe believe in god the father almighty , maker of heaven and earth . they say the same is a true living god , a mighty spirit , a perfect cleare light ; a true being , and that the same being is god , the fathers name , and his love it selfe . and they perswade their good willing ones , that by the beliefe of this article , which they call the baptisme in the fathers name , that here and now they do attain to the perfect obedience of the law of god and of the beliefe of jesus christ , and love of the holy ghost , which they make to be all one with the perfect righteousnesse of the law. . and in iesus christ his onely son our lord. some of these words they alter , for instead of his onely son , they say the onely son of god &c. whereby jesus the only son , i mean , righteousnesse : for there is their generall tenet and conclusion , that righteousnesse is christ , and sin is antichrist . the seed of the woman is righteousnesse and holinesse , and the seed of the serpen● is sin turning the person of christ into equality . . which was conceived of the holy ghost , borne of the virgin mary . as we confesse the thing done , so we speake of the present time as of the thing doing , saying , which is conceived of the holy ghost , meaning , every one that comes to take in their belief ( as they term it ) is then conceived of the holy ghost , & born of the virgin mary , calling the conception of their fancy the first or virgins estate of infancy , so making the article intend all and every one of them in generall , and hot one in particular , as we beleeve . . sufferedunder pontius pilate , was crucified dead and buried , and descended into hell . in the former article they confesse the conception and birth of the blessed seed of abraham according to the promises , and here they beleeve their sufferings according to the scriptures . and jesus christ is borne and conceived in themselves under pontius pilate , and so is incorporated into the death of his crosse , and this they call the baptisme under the obedience of the beliefe in the name of the son ; and they f●y , they bury through his belief , the old man , which state they call the youth or young man ; the renewing of the spirit in an upright life , wherein this article both of suffering , crucifying death and buriall , and discention into hell , are fulfilled in them : the rest you may see in mr. knewstub . . their lewd conversations . of this holy family we read , that most shameful corruption of life hath alwaies followed corruption of doctrine , as rom. . . god gave them up to their owne hearts lusts , to uncleannesse , to defile their owne bodies between themselves , which turned the truth of god into a lie . they are like priscillianus the hereticke , of whom h. n. borrowed not onely that villanous wresting of the word by allegories , as also the monstrous opinion that perj●ry and lying was lawfull , and to be done with a good conscience to conceale religion . priscilianus ( saith daneus ) was put to death at treversa a city of germany , confessing at his death what shameful villanies he had committed with the women of his sect. the familists talke of love , and being in love , and nothing but love ; but their love turneth into lust , as one writeth of them . hen , nicolas , as i finde written , had in his house three women apparelled alike : the one he affirmed to be his wife , the other his sister , the other his cousin : which cousin of his falling sick , and doubtfull of her life , confessed to her neighbours who resorted to her in her sicknesse , that h. n. had often abused her body , and made her believe that she should never dye . complaint thereof being made to the governour , he came to the house to have apprehended him ; but he fled . it was thought he was gone with granvella unto naples , his goods were seized upon and carried to the castle in embden , in the yeare of our lord . and in the . yeare of his age . . of divers sorts of familists . of the castalian order , which dissent from the doctrine of the church of england , opposing in every syllable , and yet being notorious hypocrites , if they bee never so little questioned , will make shew by outward seeming of conformity , as if they did highly approve the doctrine of our church . who hold that the law of god may be perfectly fulfilled by men in this world . who tearme themselves eagles , angels , and arch-angels , lambes , & doves , &c. who hope in a short time to be inspired with light and illumination , as ever paul or any prophets were , which allegorize the places of scripture concerning christ denying indeed that there was ever any such man as christ , dreaming onely of a sanctisying christ , & abhorring a justifying saviour , expecting salvation by their owne works , although they bee knowne to be co●rupt workers both in their calling and families , holding that turks and pag●ns may be saved if they live well , although they never heard of christ. of the grindletonian familists , who hold : . that the scriptures are but for novices . . the sabbath to be observed but as a lecture-day . . to pray for the pardon of sin after he is assured of gods love , is to offer christ again . . that their spirit is not to be tryed by the scripture , but the scripture by their spirit . . that we must not goe by motives , but by motions . . that when god comes to dwell in a man , he so filleth the soule , that there is no more sinfull lusting . . that they see no reason why ministers should speak against the sins of the wicked , seeing the wicked men can doe nothing but sin . . which boast and thank god that they have cast off praying in their families , repeating of sermons , and such like things long agoe . . which scoffe at such as make conscience of words , with many other pernicious poynts . . of a third sort , familiests of the mountains , who say that they have cleane vanquished the divell , and are pure from all sin , and never so much as once tempted to doubt of their spirituall estate . . of a fourth sort , familistes of the vallies , who bring in their damnable doctrine , with faire pretences of weeping , sighing , & lifting up their eyes to heaven , of patience , of a smooth carriage , and the like . . familists of the scattered flock , who seduce by pretending themselves to be of them which feare the lord when they are nothing lesse . . familists of caps order , and of other ranks . . how to discover familists . they are ( saith my author ) at this present so close and cunning , that they can carry themselves , being directed thereunto by their master h. n. that ye shal hardly ever find them out . they wll professe to agree in all things with the church of england , and also with the church of rome , if they should be examined by them only , they will not lightly deny their mr. henr. nicolas , nor speak evill of him , nor of his writings , if they should be put to it , and there is no way but this to discover them . i say , to put them to the denyall and abjuring of him and his writings , and to pronounce him a blasphemer , and his doctrines blasphemous : this they will hardly doe , unlesse they be not yet fully his disciples . . the abjuring of certaine familists . the . of iune . stood at pauls croste five persons , english-men , of the sect termed the family of love , who there confessed themselves utterly to detest aswell the author of that sect h. n. as all his damnable errors and heresies , master iohn knewstub hath written a confutation of the monstrous and horrible heresies of the family of love , printed by thomas dawson . . of adamites . an old heresie , of which st. augustine maketh mention , but renewed by the anabaptists , in the assembly of the adamites men & women pray naked , celebrated the holy communion naked heare sermons naked . these hereticks had their conventicles in subterranean places , called hypocausta , because that under the place of their meetings a furnace of fire was kindled to warme the place of their conventions ; for they uncloathed themselves when they entred into it , and stood naked born men and women , according to the similitude of adam , and eve before their fall . they call the place of their meeting paradice . i read in the history of the anabaptists , page . that in amsterdam , in a house seven men and five women had a meeting : one of them called theadoret a taylor , who bore himselfe a prophet , fell flat on the ground , prayed with such vehemenacy , that he scared all the assistants , and rising as if it were out of an extasie , i have seen ( said he ) god in his majesty , and have spoken with him : i was taken up into heaven , then i descended into hell , and there scarched every corner : the great day of the last judgement is comming . at night they met againe in the same place , and after four houres spent in praying and teaching the prophet being armed , disarmeth himselfe , and putteth off his garments to his shirt , and throweth them in the fire : then he commandeth the company in authority of a prophet to doe the like , and so they did , women , and all , leaving not so much as a hai●elace to tye up their scattered haire , no covering to the body , no shelter , ( for so was the prophets pleasure , that they should cast away all that came out of the earth and burn it as a sacrifice of sweet favou unto god : yet you may think ( saith my author ) that the burning of so many clo●hes yeelded no very sweet favour , for it was such as awaked the ●istris of the house that knew nothing of the meeting , and made her arise to seek where this burning was , for that smell made , her afraid that the fire was in her shop which was of wollen drapery . being come to the place , she saw eleven naked bodies , and the propher commanded her to put off her cloathes and put them in the fire , which she did : then the prophet commanded them all to follow him , and doe as he should doe , and so rushed into the street stark naked , and all his disciples after him , running and crying horribly throughout the town , woe , woe , woe , the divine vengeance , the divine vengeance , whereby they put the whole town into an uproare ; the people thinking that the towne was surprized by some enemy , they were all taken but one woman that slipt out of the way , & brought before the magistrate : and as they stood all naked in a full court , they could never be perswaded neither by command nor threatning to put on garments which they offered them , saying , that they must have no covering , for they were the naked truth : they were kept a while in prison untill the great conspiracy in amsterdam by the anapaptists , when they went about to surprise the town , & then they were executed . the mistris of the house where the conventic●e was kept was hanged before her owne doore . of the adamites in bohemia . whereas bohemia is like africa , alwayes bringing forth some new thing : an heresie ( saith he ) far greater then the for●er , arose there , viz. of the adamites . a certain piccard passing over the rhene , came out of the low countries into bohemia , who , with craft & with delusion deceiving many , gathered a multitude of followers , and taking an island in the lusmisicus lake , he lived there , prosessing himselfe to be the son of god ; he taught his sect to goe naked , and to call him adam & to use promiscuous marriages , and for their lust every one to take a woman and to bring her before the prelate , saying , my flesh doth wax hot upon this woman : unto whom adam answered , encrease and multiply . this man called all other men slaves , & himselfe and they that were of his sect , free-men : forty of this sect with their swords drawn set upon the village adjoyning to them , and killed about . husband-men , whom they called the children of the devill : when these things were come to the eares of zisca , the adamites were all slaine , but two men who were left to declare and make known to the world their superstitions , with the women who declared that all that wore cloathes , and especially breeches , were by no means free-men . these women were committed to prison , and afterwards for their obstinacy in their errors they were burnt . they did undergoe their punishment with great ●aerity , singing and laughing in the fire . of antinomians . in describing of these sectaries i purpose to set downe : . the originall of the antinomians . . their errors . . the first antinomian in england . . the opinions of our moderne antinomians . . the stirs raised by the antinomians in new-england , and their banishing from thence . . the originall of the antinomians . the antinomians are so called , because they would have the law abolished in the light of the gospell . the author of this sect pontanus affirmeth to be one iohn agricela of isleby who broached his errours about the year of our lord , . . the errors of the antinomians . pontanus in his catalogue of hereticks setteth downe thes following . . they precend the law not to be given to christian men . the law to pertaine to the court , and not to the gospel . . the ten commandements not to be ta●ght in the church because they that are regenerate need not the law , becaule they doe that duty willingly , being led by the spirit . . there to be no need of the law to any part of our conversion . . it is sufficient for a wieked man to beleeve , and not to doubt of his salvation . . our faith and religion to have been unknewn to moses . . neither good works profit to salvation , neither ill works can doe any hurt . . that a ghristian man cannot be known by his works . . the third use of the law , that it is a rule of life , is blasphemous in divinity , and a monster in nature . . the first antinomian in england . the first antinomian among us , ( that i can heare of ) was one master iohn eaton who had been a scholler of m●ne , and afterwards was cu●ate to mr. wright 〈…〉 neere algate ; he was 〈◊〉 his errors impriso●● , in the ga●● heule a westminster . there is a 〈◊〉 set 〈◊〉 in his name , called the honey-combe of fre●●ust ●●ation by christ alone , collected ( as he pre●ende●● ) out of the 〈…〉 of scup●ures , and common and ●animous consent of the faithfull 〈◊〉 of gods mysteries upon the same : the main subject of which bock is to prove that god doth not , will not , nor cannot see any sin in any of his justified children . to prove the poynt above named , he maketh a distibution of justified persons , in regard of their estate , according to 〈◊〉 distinct times : the time of the law , the time of iohn baptist & the time of the gospell : the first glorious , the second more glorious , the third most glorious . the first time of the law was glorious ( saith he ) because jesus christ was in it , & glorious things are spoken of the city of god that then was , yet christ and those glorious things were then vailed and greatly obscured with the bondage terrors , and legall government , not onely of the ceremoniall law , ( as the papists hold ) but also of the morall low , whereby sin was severely taken hold of , and punished sharply in gods children . the second time between the law and the gospell , to wit , the time of iohn baptist , continuing to the death of christ , was more glorious than the former : because in it the former legall severitie that then lay upon the children of god , began then to s●ick and cease ; for although iohn laid open their sinnes and the danger of them , yet we read not of any punishment inflicted on gods children . the third time the most glorious , is since christ graned out his bloud and life upon the crosse , by which sin it self , and guilt , and punishment are so utterly & infinitely abolished , that there is no sin in the church of god , and that god now sees no sin in us : and whosoever beleeyeth not this poynt , is undoubtedly damned . to the strengthening of this his fiction he abuseth divers places of luther , calvin , and others , who ( in all likely-hood ) never once dreamed of this fancy . and them that are contrary to this his opinion , he loadeth with approbrious imputation , and vile aspersions , besmearing them with his honey-combe : for his errors mr. eaton was imprisoned in the gate-house , as before . . of the errors of our moderne antinomians . the antinomians will say that eaton is dead , and that his errors dyed with him : whatsoever they say , you may read a learned book set forth by mr. gataker : in the preface whereof you may see the opinion : of the modern antinomians , viz. . that the morall law is of no use at all to a beleever , no● a rule for him to walke in , nor to examine his life by , and tha● christians are free from the mandatory power of it : when●● one of them cryed out in the pulpit , away with the la●● which cuts off a mans legges ▪ and then bids him walke . . that it is as possible for christ himself to sin , as for a child of god to sin . . that the childe of god need not , nor ought not to aske pardon for sin , and that it is no lesse then blasphemy for him so to doe . . that god doth not chasten any of his children for sinne , nor is it for the sins of gods people that the land is punished . . that if a man know himselfe to be in the state of grace , though he be drunke or commit murther , god sees no sinne in in him . . that when abraham denyed his wife , and in outward appearance seemed to lye in his distrust , lying , dissembling ▪ and equivocating that his wife was his sister , yea , then all his thoughts , words , and deeds , were perfectly holy , and righteous from all spot of sin in the eyes of god freely . to this i may adde that wholsome exhortation of one of their teachers in his pulpit ; let beleevers sinne as fast they will , they have a fountaine open to wash them : may not a man expect more honest dealing from a heaten man , or from a conscientious papist , that is perswaded that god sees his sin , then from the hand of an antinomian thus principled ? for your better information , read mr. gatakers learned book before named , now set forth , which is to be sold by fulke clifton dwelling upon new fish-street hill . of the stirs raised by the antinomians and familists in new-england , and of their banishing of them set downe by mr. wells in a booke printed for ralph smith at the signe of the bible in cornhill ; in which you way read a learned confutation of their errors . ●ome persons among those ( saith my author ) that went hence 〈◊〉 new-england , being fraighted with many loose and unsound 〈…〉 , which ●●ey dust not here , they there began to 〈◊〉 them ▪ the 〈…〉 whereof ope●ed such an easie and wide 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 ; that by the 〈◊〉 slights , friendly and hum●● 〈…〉 their own doctrine , as a 〈◊〉 〈…〉 those that they were acquainted 〈…〉 revelation , not sanctificat●on , working first upon women ●●●●ducing godly ministers to be , and preach 〈◊〉 , a covena●● of works , dropping their ba●s by little and little , and angling yet further where they saw them take , and fathering their opinions on 〈◊〉 of the best qualitie in the countrey ; and by the mea●s of mistris hutchinsons double weekly ●ecture a● rost●n , under pre●ence of repeating mr. cottons sermons , these opini●ns were quickly dispersed , before authority was aware , into all the countrey round about . which because they had already ca●ght some eminent perso●s in the countrey , grew at last to that pride and ins●lency , that it had almost ru●nated the poor church of god & ●hey did threaten the same very much both in their words and actions , their opinions were such as these first , that the law , and the preaching of it , is of no use at all , to drive a man to christ. that a man is 〈◊〉 to christ , and justified without faith ; yea from etarnity . . that fa●th is 〈◊〉 ●●ceiving of christ , but a m●ans discerning 〈◊〉 he hath receive him already . . th●● 〈…〉 to christ onely by the worke of the 〈◊〉 upon him without any act of his . . that a man is never effectually christs , 〈◊〉 hee hath assurance . . this assurance is onely from the witnesse of the spirit . . this 〈◊〉 of the spirit is meerely 〈◊〉 , without any respect to the word , or any co●currence with 〈◊〉 . . when a man hath once this witness● he never doubt● 〈◊〉 . to ques●ion my assurance , though i fall into murther , 〈◊〉 adult●ry , prov●s 〈◊〉 never had true assurance . . sanctification 〈◊〉 bee no evidence of a man● good estate . . no comfort 〈◊〉 be had from● any conditionall promise . . poverty 〈◊〉 spirit , ( to which christ 〈…〉 ble●se●●esse , ma●h● . . ) is onely this , to see , i have no grace at all . . to see i have no g●ace in me will g●ve me comfort ; but to t●ke comfort from sight of grace is leg 〈◊〉 . . ●● hypocr●te may have adams graces that hee 〈…〉 innocency . . the g●aces of sa●●ts and hypocrites differ not . . al● graces are in christ as in the subject , and none in ●s , so that christ belie●●s christ loves , &c. . christ is the new creature . . god loves a man never the better for any holinesse in h●m , and never the lesse , be he never so unholy . . sin in a c●ild of g●d must never trouble him . . trouble in conscience for sinnes of co●mis●ion , or for neglect of ●uty , shewes a man to be under a covenant of workes . . all covenants to god expr●ssed in work● are l●gall workess . a ch●istian is not bound to the law as a rule of his conversatio● . a christian is not bou●d to pra● , except the spirit moves him . ● a minister that hath not this ( new ) light is not able to edifie others that have it . . the whole letter of the scripture is a covenant of workes . . no christian must be prest to duties of holinesse . . no christian must be ex●orted to faith , 〈…〉 ●● ▪ &c. except we know he hat● a spirit . . a man may have all grace● , and y●t ●ant christ. . all a beleevers acti●●y is onely to act sin , now the●e most of them being so grosse , one would wonder how they should spread so fast and sudd●nly amongst a people so religious and well taught . for declaring of this bee pleased to attend two things . first , the nature of the opinions themselves , which open such a faire and easie way to haaven , that men may p●sse without difficulty . for , if a man need not be troubled by the law , before faith , but may step to christ so easily ; and then if his faith be no going out of himselfe to take christ , but onely a discerning that christ is his owne already , and is onely an act of the spirit vpon him , no act of his owne done by him ; and if he for his part must see nothing in himselfe , have nothing , doe nothing● onely he is to stand still , and wait for christ to doe all for him . and th●n if a●ter faith , the law no rule to walke by , no sorrow or repentance for sinne ; he must not be pressed to duties , and need never pray , unlesse moved by the spirit : and if he falls into sin , he is never the more disliked of god , nor his condition never the worse . and for his assurance , it being given him by the spirit , hee must never let it goe but● abide in the highest of comfort , though he falls into the grossest sinnes that he can . the● their way to life was made easie ; if so , no marva●l● so many like of it . and this is the very reason , besides the novelty of it , that this kinde of doctrine takes so well here in london , and other parts of the kingdome ; and that you see so many dance after this pipe , running after such , and such , crowding the churches , and filling the doores and windowes , even such carnall and vile persons ( many of them ) as care not to heare any other godly ministers , but onely their leaders . oh , it pleaseth nature well to hav● heaven and their lusts too . how many of these opinions were , i will not stand to number , but how desparately eroneous they were , i shall shew you in naming some of them . first , that the whole letter of the scripture holdeth forth ● covenant of works , contrary to iohn . tim. . . . matth. . . heb. , , . secondly , that in the ●aving conversion of a sinner , the faculties of the soule , and working thereof are de●●●oyed , and made to cease : and the holy ghost agitates in stead of them , contrary to luke ▪ . iohn ▪ . thes. . . heb. . . iohn . . thirdly , that god the father , sonne , and holy gh●st , may give themselves to the soul● 〈◊〉 that the sou●e may have true ●mon with christ , true re●●●ssion of 〈◊〉 , true marriage and fellowship● ▪ true san●●i●●cation 〈◊〉 the bloud of christ , and yet ●e an hypocrite , contrary to eph. . . fourthly , that there is no 〈◊〉 righteousnesse in the saints ▪ nor any in them , but onely in christ , contrary to timothy . . ● pet. . . tim. . . ioh. . fiftly , that the 〈◊〉 doth work in hypocrites by gifts , and graees , but in god● children immediately , contrary to heb. . . . heb. . sixty , that a man must take no notice of sin , or repentance for it , contrary to psal. . sevent●ly , that it is a ●oule damning error to make sanctification an evidence o● justification , contrary to roman● . . iohn . . eghtly , that the divell and nature may be the cause of good works . an unsavory 〈…〉 to 〈◊〉 command , luke . . you may see a confutation of . of these errors in master wells his book . unsavory speeches confuted . these that follow were adjudged by the assembly aforesaid , as unsafe speeches . . to say we are justified by faith is an unsafe speech ; wee must say , we are justified by christ. answer . false , for the co●●ant language of the scripture is not unsafe ; but we are justified by faith , is the constant language of the scripture , rom. . . being justified by faith ; the righteousnesse of faith , rom. , , . righteousnesse by faith , phil. , . . the distinct phrase of the scripture used in distinguishing legall and evangelica●l righteousnesse is no unsafe speech , but such is this , rom. . , . israel found not righteousnes , because they sought it of the law , & not of , or by faith . so rom. . , . the righteousnesse of faith saith thus , &c. the apostle makes these two so directly opposite , as membra dividentia , or contrary species , that there is no danger one should be taken for another ; but that it 's so safe , as that he that affirmes the one , denyes the other : yea , in the most exact expression that ever paul made , to exclude whatsoever might be unsafe towards a mans justification , you have this phrase , yea twice in the same verse , phil. . . not having mine owne righteousnesse , which is of the law , but that which 〈◊〉 through the faith of christ : and againe , the righteousnesse which is of god by faith ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) ergo , it is no unsafe speech ; yea , it must be said on the contrary from those grounds , that to say a man is justified before faith , or without faith , is unsafe , as contrarie to the language of the scriptures . and for the second part , that we must say , we are justified by christ , it is true so far as that it cannot be denyed , nor is unsound or unsafe at all to speake ; but if it mean a must of necessity alwayes , or only so to speak it as it is here set in opposition to the phrase of being justified by faith , then it is utterly false , for as much as the scripture leads us along in the way of other expressions ordinarily , & the apostle gives us the truth of doctrine & soundnesse of phrase together , rom. . . christ is the end ●o the law for righteousnesse to every one that beleeveth . . to evidence justification by sanctification , or graces , favours of rome . answ , not so , . rome acknowledgeth no justification in our common sense , scil ▪ by righteousnesse imputed . . rome denies evidencing of our justification and peace with god , and teacheth doctrine of doubting , and professeth that a man cannot know what god will doe with him for life or death , unlesse by speciall revelation , which is not ordinary : but if they mean old rome , or pauls rome , to which he wrote , it 's true , that it ravours of the doctrine that they received , as appeareth rom. . . all things co● worke for good , ( the evill , of every evill being taken away , which is a poynt of justification , and this is propounded under the evidence of the love of god ) to them that love him , because rom. . . . , . the evidencing of our beeing in christ , freedome from condemnation , and adoption is prosecuted by arguments from sanctification , as by having the spirit , being led by the spirit , walking after the spirit , mortifying the deeds of the flesh by the spirit : and if hereto were added the doctrine of st. iohn , so abundant this way in his first epistle ( whereof i have already made mention ) i doubt not , but it was the faith of the church of rome that then was , so that the speech is unsavory , and casting a foule aspersion on a good thing expressed in the scripture ; but as for the poynt it self , that is included , we referre it to its place , to be discussed when it is ●ightly sta●ed . . if i be holy , i am never the better acc●pted of god : if i be unholy● i am never the worse , this i am sure of , he that hath elected me must save me . answ. these words ravour very ill , and relish of a carelesse and ungracious spirit ; for howsoever we grant that our acceptation 〈◊〉 justification is alwayes in and through christ the same in gods account , yet this expression imports , that though a mans conversation be never so holy and gracious , yet be can expect never the more manifestation of gods kindnesse and love to him , contrary to psal. . ult . to him that orders his conversation aright , i will shew the salvation of god ; and iohn . . it implyes secondly , that though a mans conversation be never so vile and sensuall , yet he need not fear or expect any further expression of gods displeasure and anger to breake forth against him , or with-drawings of his favour from him● contrary to psal. . , . where god breaks davids bones for his ●in , and ionah . . ionah was as one cast out of gods presence , and chron. . . if you forsake him he will forsake you . and in a word , it imp●rts as if god neither loved righteousnesse , nor hated wickednesse , contrary to psal . , . and 〈◊〉 take no delight in the obedience of his people , contrary to psal. . . the lord delighteth in those that feare him , &c , as concerning the last clause , he that hath elected me must save me : it is true the foundation of gods election remaineth sure , yet it is as true , that whom he chuseth , he purpos●th to bring to sal●at●on through sanctification of the spirit . thes. . . . if christ will let me sinne , let him look to it upon his honour be it . answ. this retorts the lords words upon himselfe , pro . . . keep thine heart , &c. ponder thy paths , &c. and therefore no lesse blasphemous and is contrary to the professed practice of david , psalme . . i was upright before him and kept my selfe from min● iniquity : the la●ter clause puts the cause of gods dishonour upon hims●l●e , no lesse blasphe●ous then the former , and contrary to rom. . . where the dishonouring of god is laid upon themselves . . here is a great stir about graces & looking to hearts : but give me christ , i seek not for graces , but for christ , i seeke not for promises , but for christ , i seek not for sanctification , but for christ , tell not me of mediation & duties , but tel me of christ. answ. . this speech seemeth to make a flat opposition between christ and his graces , contrary to that in ioh. . . of his fulnesse we all received ; and grace for grace ; and between christ and his promises , contrary to gal● . , . christ was made ● curse that we might receive the promise of the spirit , & luke . . with . and betwix christ and all holy 〈◊〉 , contrary to tit. . . and therfore hold f●rth expressions not agreeing to wholsome doctrine . . a living faith , that hath living fruits , may grow from the living law. answ. this whole speech is utterly 〈…〉 the 〈…〉 of words required , tim. . , hold fast the forme of 〈◊〉 words . . that a hypocrite may have a living la● ▪ is contrary to iames . ● . where the hypocrites faith is called a dead faith . . that a hypocrite may bring forth living fruit is contrary to that , heb. . . . that all this grow●s from a living law , contrary to a cor. . . where the law is called a killing letter . and to gal. . . if there had been a law which could have given life , &c. . i may know i am christs , not because i doe crucifie the lusts of the flesh ▪ but because i doe not crucifie them , but believe in christ that crucifieth my lusts for me . answ. . the phrase is contrary to the scripture language ▪ gal. . . they that are christs have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts . . 〈…〉 the flesh , for these three things may seem to be expres●●● in it . . if scripture make not opposite , but subordinate , rom. . . 〈◊〉 th●ough the spirit crucifie the flesh . . that if i doe 〈◊〉 crucifie my lusts , th●n , there is an open & free way of looking to c●rist , contrary to the scripture , mat. . . blessed are the pure in heart for they shal see g●d , both in boldnesse of faith here , & fruition hereafter tim. . let every one that names the lord iesus depart from iniquity . . that believing in christ may ease me from endeavouring to ciucifie my lusts in my owne person ; which is so grosse ▪ that it needs no more confutation then to name it . . the safe sense that may be possibly intended in such a speech is this . if i crucifie the flesh in my own strength , it is no safe evidence of my being in christ ; but if renouncing my self , i crucifie the fl●sh in the strength of christ , applying his death by faith , it is a safe evidence of my being in christ : but this sense conveighed in these words , is to conveigh wholsome doctrine 〈◊〉 an ●●●olsome some channel , & a darkning and losing the truth in an 〈◊〉 expression . . peter more le●ned to a covenant of works then paul , pauls doctrine was more for free-grace then perers . answ. to oppose these persons and the doctrine of these two apostles of christ , who were guided by one and the same spirit in preaching and penning thereof , ( pet . . holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy ghost , tim. . all scripturs is given by inspiration of god ) in such a point as the covenant of works and grace , is little lesse then blasphemy . . if christ be my sanctification what need i look to any thing in my selfe to condence my justification ? answ. this position is therefore unfound , because it holds forth christ to be my sanct●fication , so as that i need not looke to any inh erent holinesse in my selfe ; whereas christ is there●●re said to be our sanctification , bècause he works sanctifica●●●● 〈◊〉 us , and we dayly ought to grow up in him , by receiving new supply and encrease of grace from his fulnesse , according to pet. . . grow in grace , and in the knowledge of our lord iesus christ. ● these with many other had so infected the church , that if god had not wrought wonderfully for his truth , they had overwhelmed us that would or nec●●sent into bloudy and ●uell martyrdome as their owne sermons did 〈◊〉 them up , and their threats gave us occasion to feare . but god in this did not sit still , as asleep , ( saith my author ) while these ta●es choakt the wheat , though he suffered the enemy to sow them , but he manifested his dislike in notorious judgements upon the prime fomenters of them . as first , mistris hutchinson , the generalissimo 〈◊〉 high priestesse of the new religion , was delivered at one 〈◊〉 of . monstrous births , or thereabouts , much about the n●mber of her monstrous opinions ; some were bigger , some lesse , none of them having humane shape , but shap't like her opinions : mistris dier another of the same crew , was delivered of a large woman-child which was stil-born : it had no head , but a face upon the breast , and the eares ( which were like an apes ) stood in the shoulders , the eyes and mouth stood farre out , the nose was looking upwards , the breast and back full of sharpe p●i●●les , the navell , belly , and privy parts were where the back & hips should be , and the back parts were on that side that the face was : the armes and legges , thighes and hands were as other children , but in stead of toe● , it had upon each foot three clawes ▪ with talons like a young fowle : upon the back above the belly it had two great holes like mouthes , and in each of them stuck a piece of flesh : it had no fore-head , but in the place thereof above the eyes , foure horns , whereof two were above an inch long ▪ hard and sharp , the other two somewhat shorter . thus god punisht those monstrous wretches with a monstrous fruit , sprung from their wombe , as had before sprung from their braines . but as the jewes in the sad por●ent● appearing before the last destruction of ierusalem , construed all things to the best , though never so apparent , so did they : and whatsoever might seem prodigious in any of these births , the burthen they laid upon the church , which they thought their enemies . then god stirred up his people to call an assembly of ministers , who confuted these opinions publikely , and made the authors and upholders of them unable to answer , although they could not make them yeeld . but lastly , god put it into the hearts of the civill magistrates to convent the chief leaders of them : and after many fruitlesse admonitions given , they proceeded to sentence : some they disfranchised ; others they excommunicated , and some they ba●isht . a seditious minister , one mr. wheele●wright was one , and mistris hutchinson another , who going to plant her selfe in an island , call●d read●●sland under the dutch , where they could not agree , but were miserably divided into sundry sects , ●emo●ed from thence to an island called hell-gate , where the indians set upon her and ●●ew her and her daughter and daughters husband , children and family : some report that the indians burnt them . and thus much of the anti●omians : read mr. w●lls his book , where you shall read their opinions at large with a learned confutation . of arminians . the armi●●●●s are so called of iames armin●●●s , who was 〈…〉 divinity at leiden in the low-countreys , in the 〈◊〉 of our lord god . they are also called remonstra●●s . their errors follow . . concerning gods predestination . that the will of god to ●●ve such as shall believe and persevere in faith and obedience of ●aith ▪ is the whole and entire d●cree of the election to salvation , and that nothing else concerning that decree is revealed in the word of god. these teachers deceive the sim●●er sort , and plainly gain-say the holy scripture , which witnesseth that god not on●ly wil save such as shall believe , but also from eternity hat● chosen some certaine men , upon whom rather then upon others , he would bestow faith in christ , and persev●●a●ce , as it is written ioh. . , i have declared thy name to the 〈◊〉 which thou gavest 〈◊〉 like manner acts . . as many as were ordained to eternall life believed and eph. . . he hath chosen us before the foundat●on of the world. . they teach ●thit the election of god to salvation is manifold , one generall and indetinite , and this again 〈◊〉 incomplete , revocable , nor peremp●orie or conditionall ; or ●lse complete , ●●●●ocable , peremptory , or abs●lute : likewise that there is one election ●nto faith , another to salvation , so th●t election unto just●ying aith may bee without peremptory election to salvation ▪ this is a f●gment of mans braine , devised without any ground in the scripture , corrupting the doctrine of election & breaking that golden chaine of salvation , rom. . . whom he hath predestinated , them also hath he called : and whom 〈◊〉 hath called , them a● so he hath ●ustified : and whom he hath justified also he hath glorified . . they teach that the good pleasure and purpose of god , whereof the scripture maketh mention in the doctrine of election , doth not consist herein , that god did elect some certaine men rather then others : but in this , viz. that god from among all possible conditions ( amongst which are the workes of the law also ) or out of the ranke of all things did chuse as condition to salvation , the act of faith ( in it selfe ignoble ) and imperfect obedience , & was graciously pleased to repute it for perfect obedience , and account it worthy of the reward of everlasting life . by this pernicious error , the good pleasure of god and merit of christ is weakned , besides that by such unprofitable questions men are called from the truth to free justification , and from the single plaine of the scriptures , and that of the apostle is out●●ced as untrue , tim. . . god hath called us with a holy calling , not according to our works , but according to his purpose and grace which was given to us through christ ●esu● before the world began . . they teach that in election unto faith , this condition is formerly required , viz. that a man may use the ●ight of reason aright , that he be honest , lowly , and humble , and ●●●posed unto eternall life , as though in some sort election d●pended on these things , for these teachers have a strong 〈…〉 , and broadly enough tell the apostle that he is 〈◊〉 when he sayes ephes. . . we had all our conversations in ti●●s past in the lust of the flesh , fulfilling the will of the flesh , 〈◊〉 of the minde , and were by nature the children of wrath as well as others . but god which is rich in mercy through his great love wherewith he loved us , even when we were dead in sins , hath quickened us together with christ , ( by grace ye are saved ) and 〈◊〉 raised us up together , and made us sit together in heave●●y pl●ces in iesus christ , that he might shew in the ages to come the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindnesse tow●rds us in iesus christ : for by grace ye are saved through faith , and that not of your selves , it is the gift of god , not of works , lest any should ●●ast . . they teach that incompleat and not peremptory election of singular person is made by reason of fore-seen faith , repentance , sanctity , godlinesse , and that this is the gracious and evangelicall worthinesse , by which he that is chosen becomes worthier then he that is not chosen : and therefore that faith , the ●bedience of faith sanctity , godlinesse and perseveran ce are not the fruits or effects of the unchangeable electi●n unto glory , but conditions and causes sine quibus non , ( that is to say , without which a thing is not brought to passe ) before required and fore-seen as already performed by those who are compleatly to be chosen , a thing rep●gnant to the whole scripture , which every wherebeats into our eares & hearts these and such like sayings , rom . . election is not of works , but of him that calleth , acts , . as many as were ordained to everlasting life , beleeved , joh. . . ye have not chosen me , but i have chosen you , rom. . . if of grace not of works , john . . herein is love● not that we loved god but that he first loved us and sent his son , &c. . that not all election to salvation is unchangeable , but that some which are elected , withstanding gods decree , may perish , and for ever doe perish . by which gros●e error they hoth make god mutable , & overthrow the comfort of the godly concerning the certainty of their salvation , and contradict the holy scriptures , teaching , mat. . . that the elect cannot he seduced , john . . that christ doth not lose those are given to him by his father , rom. . . that god whom he hath predestinated , called , justified , them he doth also glorifie . . they teach that in this life there is no fruit , no sence , no certainty of immutable election unto glory , but upon condition , contingent and mutable : for besides that , it is absurd to make an uncertaine certainty . these things contrary to the experience of the godly , who with the apostle , triumph upon the sence of their election , and extoll this benefit of god , who rejoyce with the disciples according to the admonition of christ , luke . . that their nam●● are written in heaven . and lastly , who oppose the sense of their election against the fiery darts of divillish temptations , demanding , rom. . . why shall lay any thing to the charge of gods elect . . they teach that god out of his meere just will hath not decreed to leave any man in the fall of adam and common state of sin and damnation , or to passe over any in the communication of grac● necessary to faith and conversion , for that stands firme , rom. . . he hath compassion upon whom he will and whom he will he hardn●th . and that mat. . . to you is given to know the mysteries of the kingdome of heaven , but to them it is not given . in like manner , mat. . , . i glorifie thee , father , lord of heaven and earth , that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding men , and hast revealed them unto babes : even so , o father , because thy good pleasure was such . . they teach that the cause why god sends the gospell rather to this nation than to another , is not the meere and onely good pleasure of god , but because this nation is better and more worthy of it then that to which he hath not communicated the gospell : ●or moses gain-sayes this speaking thus unto the people israel , deut. . , . behold heaven and the heaven of heavens is the lord thy gods , and the earth with all that therein is : notwithstanding the lord set his delight in thy fathers to love them , and did chuse their seed after them even you above all people ▪ as appeareth this day . and christ , mat. . ● w●e be to thee corazin , woe be to thee bethsaida , for if the great works which had been done in you , had been done 〈◊〉 ti●●s and sydon , they had repented long agoe in sacke 〈◊〉 and ashes ▪ . their errors concerning christs death , and the redemption of men by it . . they teach that god the father ordained his son unto the death of the crosse without any certaine and determinate counsell of saving any particular man expressely , so that its necessary , profit and dignity might have remained whole , sound , and perfect in every respect , compleat and entire in the impetration of christs death , although they obtained redemption , had never actually been applyed to any particular person , for that assertion is reproachfull to the wisdome of god the father , and the me●●t of jesus christ , and contrary to the scripture , where our saviour christ saith , ioh. . . i lay down my life for my sheep , verse . and i know them the prophet speaketh thus of our saviour , isa. . . when he shal make his sons a sacrifice for sin he shal see his seed and prolong his dayes , and the will of the lord shall prosper in his hands . lastly , it overthroweth any article of our faith , wherein we doe believe that there is a church , . they reach that this was not the will of god , that hee might establish a new covenant of grace by his bloud , but that he might onely procure unto his father the bare right of making againe with men any covenant whatsoever , whether of grace or of works : for this thwarteth the scripture , which teacheth that christ is made the surety & mediator of a better , that is , a new covenant , heb. . . and heb. . . the testament is confirmed when men are dead . . they teach that christ by his satisfaction did not certainly merit for any mans salvation it selfe , and faith by which this satisfaction of christ may be effectually applyed unto salvation , bu● onely that he purchased his fathers power or resolution to enter into a new match with man-kinde , and to prescribe them what new covenant soever he pleased . the performance of which condition should depend upon mans free-will , and that therefore it might fall ●ut that either no man or every man might fulfill them : for these esteem too 〈◊〉 basely of christ● death , in no wise acknowledging the chiefest 〈…〉 excellent fruit and benefit procured thereby , and will call up 〈…〉 pelagian herisie from hell . . they teach that the new covenant of grace with god the father , by the mediation of christs death made with men , doth not consist herein ▪ viz. that we are justified before god , and saved by faith , insomuch as it apprehendeth the merit of christ , but herein , viz. that god , the exaction of perfect legal obedience being abrogated , reputes faith it selfe and the imperfect obedience of faith for the perfect obedience of the law , & graciously thinks it worthy of the reward of eternall life . th●● concludeth the scripture . rom. . , . all are justified freely by grace , through the redemption that is in christ iesus , whom god hath set forth to be a reconciliation through saith in his bloud . and with wicked socinus they bring in 〈◊〉 and strange justification of man before god , 〈…〉 consent of the whole church . . they teach that all men are received into the sta●e of reconciliation and grace of the covenant , so that no 〈◊〉 shal be condemned for originall sin , nor in respect of it be 〈◊〉 unto death or damnation : but are all acquitted and f●e●d from the guilt of that sin . this opinion is contrary to the scripture , which affi●es that by nature we are the children of wrath . this the arminiams learnt from the anabaptists . . they imply the distinction of impetration and application , to the end that they may infuse this opinion unto unsk●●full and unwary wits ; namely , that god as much as concerne● 〈◊〉 , would conferre upon all men eq●●lly those benefits which are promised by christs death . and whereas some rather then ●thers are made partakers of forgivenesse of sins 〈◊〉 life etern●ll● and this diversity depends upon their owne free-will , applying it selfe unto grace indifferently offered , but not upon the ●●●gular gift of mercy effectually working in them 〈◊〉 then others , that they may apply this grace unto thems●lves : 〈◊〉 they while they bear the world in hand , that they pr●pound this destruction with a sound meaning , they goe about to make the people drink of the poysonous cup of pelagianisme . . they teach that christ neither could nor ought to dye , neither did dye for those whom god dearely loved , and chose unto eternall life , seeing such stood in no need of christs death . in this they contradict the apostle , who saith , gal. . . christ loved me , and gave himselfe for me . in like manner , rom. . . who shall lay any thing to the charge of christs chosen ? it is god that justifieth , who shall condemne ? it is christ which it dead , to wit for them . and our saviour averring iohn . . i lay down my life for my sheep . and iohn . . this is my commandement that yee love one another as i have loved you , greater love then this no man hath , that a man lay down his life for his friends . thirdly , & fourthly , their errors concerning mans corruption and conversion unto god. . they teach , that it cannot be well objected , that originall sin of it selfe is sufficient ●or the con●en●ning of a●l mankinde , or for the deserving of any temporall and eternall punishment . in this they goe against the apostle , who saith rom. . by one man sin entred into the world , and death by sin , and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned , and vea● . . the judgement was by one to condemnation , rom. . . the ●ages of sin is death . . they teach that spirituall gifts or good qualities or vertues , such as our goodnesse , holinesses , or righteousnesse , could not bee s●a●ed in the will of man in his first 〈◊〉 and therefore in his fall the will could not bee bereft of them . this is contrary to the image of god laid downe by the apostle , eph. . . where hee describeth it by righteousnesse and holinesse , which doubtlesse are placed in the will. . they teach that in spiritual death n● spirituall gifts were separated from the will of man , to 〈…〉 will it selfe 〈…〉 corrupted b●t onely encombred by 〈◊〉 darknesse of the understanding and unrulin● sse of the affections : which impe●iments being removed the will may be put into her owne inbred faculty of freedome , that is , of her selfe , will or ●ill chuse or refuse any kind of good set before her . verily , this is a new feigned and erroneous piece of doctrine ▪ bent on purpose for the enhansing of the forces of free-wil , contrary to that of the p●ophet , jer. . . the heart is deceitfull above all things and desperately wicked . and that of the apostle , eph. . among whom ( namely the children of disobedience ) all we had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh fulfilling the wills of the flesh and of the minde . . they teach that an unregenerate man is not properly nor totally dead in sins , nor destitute of all strength tending to spirituall good , but that he is able to hunger and thirst after righteousnes or everlasting life , and to offer the sacrifice of an humble and contrite heart , even such as is acceptable to god. these assertions march against the direct testimonies of scriptures , eph. . . . yee were dead in trespasses and sinnes . gen. . . . . every imagination of the thoughts of mans heart is onely evill continually . moreover , the hungring and th●rsting for deliverance out of misery , and for life eternall , as also offering to god the sacrifice of a broken heart is proper to the regenerate , and such as are called blessed , psalme . matth. . . . they teach , that a corrupt and naturall man can so rightly use common grace ( by which they mean the light of nature , or , those gifts which are left him after the fall ) that by the good use thereof he may obtaine to a greater ; namely , evangelicall , or saving grace , and by degrees at length salvation it selfe . and that god for his part sheweth himselfe ready in this manner to reveale christ to all men , seeing he doth sufficiently and efficaciously afford to every man necessary meanes for the making christ known , and for faith and repentance . this is 〈◊〉 to be false , as by the experiance of all ages in the world , so also by scriptures , psal. . , . he sheweth his word unto jacob ; his statutes and his judgements unto israel : he hath not dealt so with any nation , and as for his judgements , they have not knowne them , acts . . god in times past suffered all nations to walke in their owne wayes , acts . , . paul and his company were forbidden to preach the word in asia ; and after they were come to mysia , they offered to goe into byth●●i● ; but the spinit suffered them not . . they teach , that in true conversion of a man there cannot be in●used by god any new qualities , habits , or gifts into his will ; and so by faith , by which we are first converted , and from which we are stiled faithfull , is not any gift or quality infused by god ; but onely an act of man that this faith cannot be called a gift otherwise then in regard of the power or meanes given us of attaining it . these strange positions are contrary to holy scriptures , which testifie unto us , that god doth infuse or shed downe into our hearts new qualities of faith , obedience , and some of his love towards us , ier. . . i pu● my law into their inner parts , and write it in their hearts , isa. . . i will poure water upon him that is thirsty , and flouds upon the dry grounds ; i will poure my spireit upon thy seed , rom. . . the love of god is shed abroad in our hearts , by the holy ghost which is given unto us . they contradict also the continuall practice of the church , which useth to pray after the manner prescribed by the prophet , convert me o lord , and i shall be converted jer , . . . they teach , that the grace wherewith we are converted unto god is nothing else but a gentle inducement , or ( as others explain it ) that the most noble kinde of working a mans conversion , and most ●utable to our nature is performed by swaso●y motives or advice ; and that no cause can be alledged ●hy even such morall grace alone should not of naturall men make spirituall . nay moreover , that god doth not produce the consent of our will otherwise then by way of morall counselling , and that the efficacy of gods working , wherein he exceedeth the working of the devill , cons●steth in this , that the divell promiseth temporary things , but gods things eternall . this is downe-right pelagianisme , and warreth against the whole course of scriptures , which besides this swasory course of moving acknowledgeth in the conversion of man another manner of working of gods spirit , and that more divine and of farre greater efficacy , ezek. . . i will give you a new heart and a new spirit will i put within you ; and i will take away the stony heart out of yur flesh , and will give you an heart of flesh . . that god in regenerating a man doth not imply that omnipotent strength whereby he may powerfully and infallibly bow and bend his will unto faith and conversion ; but that all the gracious operations which god useth for our conversion being accomplished , neverthelesse man may withstand god , and his holy spirit intending that mans conversion ; yea , and oftentimes doth make actuall resistance ; so it lyeth in mans power to be , or not to be regenarate . this amounteth to no lesse then the denying of all efficacy to gods grace in our conversion , and to the subjecting of the worke of almighty god unto the will of man , which is flat contrary to the doctrine of the apostles , eph. . . that we believe according to the working of his mighty power . and thes. . . that god fulfilleth all the pleasure of his goodnesse , and the worke of faith with power . and pet. . . that gods power hath given to us all things that pertaine to life and godlinesse . . they teach , that grace and free-will are co-partening causes joyntly concurring to the beginning of conversion , and that grace doth not in the order of casuality goe before the action of the will. that is , that god doth effectually helpe mans will to conversion before the will of man moveth and determineth or setleth it selfe thereunto . this doctrine was long since condemned by the ancient church among the pelagian errors out of the apostles authority , romans . . it is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth , but of god that sheweth mercy . and cor. . . who maketh thee to differ from another ? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive ? item . phil. . . it is god which worketh in you both ●o will and to doe of his good pleasure . . error concerning the perseverance of the saints . . they teach , that the perseverance of the faithfull is not an effect of election , nor any gift of god purchased by the death of christ ; but that it is a condition of the new covenant which is to be performed by mans part by his owne free will before his ( as they themselves speak ) peremptorily election and justification : whereas the holy scriptures testifie , that it followeth election , and is given to the elect by vertue of christ death resurrection , and intercession , rom. . . he that spared not his owne sonne , but delivered him up for us , how shall not he with him give us freely all things ? who shall lay any thing to the charge of gods elect ? it is god that justifieth , who is he that condemneth ? it is christ that dyed , yea , or rather that is risen again , who is even at the right hand of god , who also maketh intercession for us : who shall separate us from the love of christ ? . they teach , that god indeed furnisheth the faithfull man with sufficient strength to persevere , and is ready to maint●i●e that strength in him if he himselfe be not wanting to his du●y : yet not withstanding , when as all abilities necessary unto perseverance , and all things which god is pleased to use for the preservation of faith once granted , and set in readinesse , that it still remaineth in the choyce and pleasure of mans will to performe or not . this opinion is easily discovered to be an impe of pelagi●nisme ; which whilst it strives to make man free , maketh him sacrilegious , contrary to the uniforme and pe●petuall consent of evangelicall doctrine , which quite strippeth a man of matter of boasting and ascribeth the glory of his benefit to gods grace , onely and contrary to the apostle , witnessing that it is god that shall confirme us unto the end , that we may be blamelesse in the day of our lord jesus christ. . they teach that the regenerate and true beleevers , not only may totally and finally fall from justifying saith , as also from grace and salvation , but that frequently also they indeed do fall from all these , and perish everlastingly . this opinion maketh the grace of justification and regeneration , and christs continuall custody voyd and of none effect , contrary to the expresse words of st. paul , rom. . . while we were yet sinners , christ dyed for us , much more then being justified by his bloud , we shall be saved from wrath through him . and contrary to the apostle st. iohn , joh. . . whosoever is borne of god sinneth not , for his seed remaineth in him , neither can be sin because he is borne of god. and also contrary to the word of our saviour , iohn . , . i give eternall life to my sheep , and they shall never perish , neither shall any plucke them out of my hand : my father which gave them me is greater then all , and none is able to pluck them out of my fathers hand . . they teach that the regenera●e and truely faithfull may sin the sin unto death , or against the holy ghost . st. iohn in his first epistle , chapter . verse . having made mention of such as sinned unto death , and forbidden to pray for them presently , verse . addeth ; we know that whosoever is borne of god sinneth not , to wit , that kinde of sin ; but he that is begotten of god keepeth himselfe , and that wicked one coucheth him not . . they teach that no certainty of future perseverance ca● he had in this life without speciall revelation . by this doctrine the solid comfort of true beleevers in this life is quite taken away , and the doctrine of doub●fulnesse ( ●●●ouched , by the papists ) is brought againe into the church , whereas the holy scripture every whe●e draweth this assurance , not from special and extraordinary revelation , but from the proper markes and signes of gods children , and from the infallible promises made by god himselfe , especially the apostle , rom. . . no creature is able to separate us from the love of god , which is in iesus christ. joh , . . he that keepeth his commadement dwelleth in him and he in him , and hereby we know that hee abideth in us , even by the spirit which hee hath given us . . they teach that the doctrine maintai●ing assurance and pers●verance , and of salvation , is of its own nature & gift , a soft pillow for the flesh , and hurtfull to good manners , godlinesse , praying and other holy exercises ; and contrariwise that it is a true commendable thing to be doubtfull of such perseverance . the opposers of this assurance do evidētly shew that they know not the powerfulnesse of gods grace , nor the operation of the holy ghost dwelling in the heart , and spare not to outface the apostle . iohn affi●ming the contrary in expresse terms , ioh , . , . beloved now are we the sonnes of god , and it doth not yet appeare what we shal be ; but we know that when he shal appeare , we shall be like him , for we shall see him as he is . and every man , that this hope in him purifieth himselfe even as he is pure . they are also refuted by the examples of holy men both in the old and new testament : who though well assured of their own perseverance and salvation , yet gave not over prayers and othe● exercises of godlinesse . . they teach that the faith of those that beleeve but for a season differeth no : from justifying and saving faith , but onely in respect of continuance : christ himselfe manifestly puts , mat. . . luke . . a three-fold disparison between temporisors and true beleevers , saying that those receive the seed in a stony ground , these in a good ground , that is , an honest and good heart : these want root , these have a fast root , these are fruitlesse , these bring forth their fruit with diversity of yeeld , & that with patience , that is , with constancy and perseverance . . they teach that it is absurd that a man should lose his first regeneration , and be again new-borne spiritually . they that reach this , do thereby deny the uncorruptiblenesse of that divine seed whereof we are borne anew , contrary to the testimony of the apostle st. peter , pet. . . being born anew not of corruptible seed , but of incorruptible . . they teach that christ never prayed for the faithfulls infallible perseverance in faith , in which they contradict christ his saying to peter , luke . i have prayed for thee that thy faith faile not ▪ and also witnessing , john . . that himselfe prayed not onely for his apostles , but also for all that should believe by their word , when he said , verse . holy father keep thine owne , ( namely ) those whom thou hast given me , and ver . . i pray that thou shouldst not take them out of the world , but that thou shouldst keep them from the evill . for your better satisfaction read the synod held at dort in the yeares of our lord , , . where the orthodoxe opinions of the reformed churches are set down , and the errors before named condemned . king james of blessed memory was a special means for the suppressing of these sectaries ▪ as appeareth by his writings against them . predestination to life is the everlasting purpose of god , whereby before the foundations of the world were lai● , he hath constantly decreed by his counsels secret to us , to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in christ ou● of man-kinde and to bring them to christ , to everlasting salvation , as vessels made to honour : ther●fore they which bee endued with so excellent a benefit of god , be called according to gods purpose by his spirit , working in due season ; they through grace obey the calling , they be justified freely , they be made sons of god by adoption , they bee made like the image of his onely son jesus christ , they walke religio●sly in good works , and at length by gods mercy they attain to everlasting felicity . as the godly consideration of predestination , and our election in christ is full of sweet , pleasant , and unspeakable comfort to godly persons , and such as fe●le in themselves the working of the spirit of christ , mortifying the works of the flesh and their earthly members ▪ and drawing up their minde to high and heavenly things , aswell because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal salvation to be enjoyed through christ , as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards god ▪ so for curious and carnall persons , lacking the spirit of christ , to have continually before their eyes the sentence of gods predestination , is a most dangerous down-fall , whereby the devill doth thrust them either into desperation , or into wretchlesnesse of most uncleane living , no lesse perilous then desparation . furthermore , we must rece●ve gods promises in such wise as they be generally set forth in holy scripture , and in our doings that will of god is to be followed , which we have expressely declared unto us in the word of god. to conclude , sith wee cannot our selves think one good thought : let us not in the work of salvation attribute any thing to our selves , but to god let us give all the glory . of the socinians . in treating of these sectaries , i will propose : . their originall . . some of their chiefe errors , with the refutation of them . . socinisme 〈◊〉 socinanisme hath its name from lelius socinus , and his nephew faustus socinus , both italians of siena in the state of florence . . l●lius socinus in the time of mr. c●lvi● , broached his opinions by private letters , written to ca●vin : faustus his son , by publike writings , and by books fo●lowed the steps of his father in corrupting and traducing the sincere and orthodoxe faith . . for socinianisme is a compound of many per●icious and antiquitated heresies , in which are revived the errors especially of these five sects , viz. ebio●●tes , arrians , phot●●ians , servetians , antitrinitarians , with which are joyned the samofatonians and sab●●ans , of whom also they participate . their erroneous and dangerous opinions may be read especially in the workes of socinus , ostorodius , catechesis racoviensis , crellius , volkelius , and others . the principall of them may be reduced to the heads following being sixe in number . . concerning god. . that there is no naturall knowledge of god , by which we may be instructed to any kinde of acknowledgement or beliefe of a dei●y , or any thing concerning the being of god. refuted , rom , ● . . rom. . . . christ his incarnation . . that the incarnation of christ is repug●ant to reason , and cannot be sufficiently proved out of scripture . refuted iohn . . deity . that christ is not truely god , and that the believe of his divine nature is not agreeable to scripture . refuted iohn . , . phil. . . iohn . . satisfaction . that christ did not by his death satisfie for our sins . refuted , iohn . . cor. . . tit. . . mat. ▪ tim. . . . the holy ghost . that the holy ghost is not god. refuted , ioh. . . . the trinity . that it is repugnant to the word of god , to beleeve three persons and one god. refuted . iohn . . mat. . . . man ▪ that man in the state of innocency was not created in originall righteousnesse . refuted , eccles. . . . the scripture or word of god. that the old testament is not necessary for a christian man , though it may be profitably read . refuted iohn . . acts . . antitrinitarians , or new arrians . called arrians of the old heretick arrius , who was a deacon of the church of alexandria , achillas the bishop being dead , and arri●● having not the bishoprick given him , which he desired , alexander being chosen , he infected the world with this heresie : he was condemned in the councell of nice by . bishops under the emperor constantine the great ▪ and banished : he died as iudas the traytor did , his bowells falling out of his belly . the antitrinitarians have renewed arrius his old heresie , and they are called antitrinitarians because they blaspheme & violate the holy trinity . these antitrinitarians sprung up in polonia and neighbour countries in the yeare of our lord , . against this sect doctor pelargus wigandus , and others have written learned treatises . the horrible blasphemies and divillish opinions of these here●●cks i am loath to name ▪ but that my desire is that christians should take notice of them to beware of them . . they deny the trinity of persons , which blasphemie saint iohn refuteth , iohn . . there are three that beare record in heaven , the father , the word , and the holy ghost , and these three are one . read gen. . . and god said , let us make man in our owne image , and god created man in his owne ●mage . mat. . ver . . . they deny the son to be god , which blasphemy is refuted esa. . . for unto us a child is borne , unto us a sonne is given : his name shall be called wonderfull , councellour , the mighty god , &c. iohn . ver . . . in the beginning was the word , and the word was with god , and the word was god. . the eternall generation of the son to be against reason , against truth , refuted mic. . . thou bethlehem ephrata , out of thee shall come to be a ruler in israel , whose goings have been from of old , from everlasting , john . . psal. . col. . . . christ not to be called god in respect of his essence , but by reason of his dominion , which is refuted iohn . . i and the father am one . john . heb. . . psal. . verse . . the holy ghost to be god , refuted acts . . why hath satan filled thy hear● to lie to the holy ghost ? . thou hast not lien to men , but to god. isa. . . . iob . . psal. . . from these false doctrines and heresies good lord deliver us . these hereticks have been heretofore burnt among us , as anno . march . bartholomew legat , an 〈◊〉 arrian , was burnt in smithfi●ld ; he refused all favour , contemned ecclesiasticall government . and in the mon●● of april following , one edward wightman was burnt at liechfield for the same heresie . queene elizabeth of blessed memorie he●●ing of them , said , shee was very sorrowfull to heare that shee 〈◊〉 such monsters in her kingdome ; and truly , it grieveth me very much to relate their blasphemous and devillish opinions . of millenaries . an heresie frequent at this time . this sect look for a temporary kingdome of christ , that must begin presently , and last a thousand yeares . of this opinion are many of our apocalypticall men , that study more future events then their present duty , and more rules by prophesies then precepts . this fancie is most dangerous for all estates . . for to promote that kindome of christ , they 〈◊〉 that all the ungodly must be killed . . that the w●cked have no property in their estates . . that the promise might be fulfilled , that the meek must inherit the earth . this doctrine filleth the people with a furious and unnaturall zeale , which breathes nothing but fire and sword , and maketh them to look upon their countrey-men with such an eye as the anabaptists cast upon munster when they came first to it , viz. a malignant and covetous eye , discerning their prey , and marking the rich men to ruine & destruction , god deliver us from such a reformation brought by a multitude , missed with a frantick zeale and giddy revelations . this was the ancient error of cerinthus who was a jew , and lived in the time of domitian the emperour , about the yeare of our lord , . among other errors he taught eternall life to be here in earth , where we should enjoy all pleasures of the flesh . that after the resurrection christs kingdome should be upon earth , and corp●rall ; and that men should live in carnall concupiscence and lust for one thousand yeares . he dyed oppressed by the fall of a bath : when st. iohn the evangelist , with some of his disciples were bathing at ephesus , and saw this heretick cerinthus in the bath , he leaped out , saying , let us depart lest the bath fall upon us : cerinthus being here the enemy of truth ; which came to passe as sone as saint iohn was gone out of it , as is set downe in these verses of stigelius . impia cerinthus sansto convitia christ● dum facit , & stulta garrulitate furit ; concidit , & rando blasphemum contudit ictu collapsae subito facta ruina domus . this ancient heresie condemned by the church , and long agoe buried , is now revived in these latter times . you shall finde this heresie confuted in the chapter of the anabaptists . hetheringtonians . the author of this sect was one iohn hetherington , a box-maker . . this hetherington being a trades-man , cast off his trade and betook himselfe to be an interpreter of the scriptures to many persons , keeping private conventicles . . he maintained and published the church of england to be no true church of christ. . he was a man dis-affected to the government and discipline of the church of england , and agreeth with the familists , holding with them the perfect purity of the soule . . he maintained and published the sabbath since the apostles 〈◊〉 to be of no force ; and that every day is a sabbath , as much as that which we call the lords day , or sunday . . he maintained the books of esdras was part of the canonicall scripture , and that they ought so to be esteemed . for which erro●●ous opinions , tending to the disturbance of the peace of the church , & to the seducing of many silly soules , he was adjudged for a dangerous sectary ; and among other 〈…〉 upon him , this was one , that he should recant his errors at pauls crosse. his errors before named , are conf●ted by doctor denison in a sermon of his , which he preached at pauls crosse at the recantation of the fore-said hethrington . he recanted them at pauls crosse , and hath lately written against the familists . the anti-sabbatarians . these anti-sabbatarians hold the sabbath day , or that which we call the lords day , to be no more a sabbath , in which they goe about to violate all religion ; for take away the sabbath and farewell religion . the morality of the sabbath doth consist in a mysticall resting from sin , but in celebrating an appoynted day in seven to the worship and service of almighty god. . the sabbath was instituted in the time of mans innocency . . the manner of promulgation of it in the decalogue is worrhy to be observed . god saith , remember thou keep holy the sabbath day . . this law is not placed among the ceremoniall or judiciall lawes but in the decalogue it selfe . . the reasons for keeping it are expressed in the commandement , viz. six dayes shalt thou labour , and doe all that th●● hast to doe ; but the seventh day is the lord , &c. reasons why the lords day is to be observed . . by morality of the fourth commandement , because the morall law is not abrogated by the gospell , but established , rom. . . . because this day on which our lord rose hath been observed by all christians . it was kept at ierusal●m , a●●s . . it was kept at troas , acts . . at patm●s rev. . . and in all christian churches in the whole world . . the ancient fathers have pressed the observation of this day . ignatius saith ; let every one that loveth 〈◊〉 celebrate the lords day . st. basil saith ▪ when as 〈…〉 dayes prescribed by the law are abolished yet ther● 〈◊〉 one great day of the lord which never shall be abolished . their testimonies are infinite . . god hath from time to time shewed his fe●refull judgements upon prophaners of his day , as you read in the practice of piety . a certain husband-man gri●ding corne ●n the lords day had all his meale burned to ashes : another carrying corne upon the same day , had his barn and all his corn the next night burnt . a certaine noble-man usually prophaning the lords day by hunting , had a child by his lady 〈◊〉 had a head like a hound . many exa●ples of gods judgments are there set down , all which may be faire warnings to forwarne not only prophaners of the sabbath , but also all such as by their per●icious doctrine teach men to prophane it . traskites . so called of one mr. john traske , whom the author knew well . his opinions were , that it was not lawfull to doe any thing ●orbi●den in the old law , nor to keep the christian sabbath . one theophilus braborne endeavoured with him to bring back againe the jewish sabbath , and to that purpose writ a book in the yeare . the positions concerning the sabbath by them maintained , were these . . that the fourth commandement of the decalogue , remember the sabbath day , too keep it holy , &c. exod. . is a divine precept , simply and entirely morall , containing nothing legally ceremoniall in whole or in part , and therefore the weekly observation thereof ●●ght to be perpetuall , and to continue in full force and vertue to the worlds end . . that the saturday , or the seventh day of every week ought to be an everlasting holy day in the christian church , and the religious observation of this day obligeth christians under the gospell as it did the jewes before the comming of christ. . that the sunday , or lords day is an ordinary working day ▪ an it is superstition and will-worship to make the same the sabbath of the fourth commandement . of this opinion was theophilus braborne . as the anabaptists will have no children baptised , because there is no expres●e command for it in scripture ; so these sabbatarians will have no sunday because they can find no expresse text for the alteration of it . iohn traske for his judaicall opinions was censured in the star-chamber to be set upon the pillory at westminster , and from thence to bee whipt to the fleet , there to remaine prisoner ; three years after he writ a recantation of all his schismaticall errors . also theophilus braborne had his doome in the star-chamber , and afterwards renounced his errors by conference had with doctor vhite , lord bishop of ely , which caused him to write a book of the sabbath . for the observation of the lords day , we read there is among others a treatis● of doctor bonners , called ( a profitable and necessary doctrine ) wherein on the fourth commandement sunday is oft called by the name of sabbath , and thereon ( saith he ) we must have our mindes quiet and free from all worldly cares , and give them entirly and wholly unto god both privately and publikely ; and that wee must occupy our selves in thought , word , and deed , as may be to the glory of god , with spirituall edifying both of our selves and also of our neighbours ; and that every one must instruct his children , servants and family in vertue and goodnesse : and as saint augustine saith , serm. . let us marke and see that our rest be not vaine or fruitlesse , but that wee being sequestred from all rurall workes , and from all businesse , doe from the evening on the saturday untill the evening on the sunday , give your selves to divine service . onely and after such sort we doe duely or well sanctifie the sabbath of our lord : and to prove the sabbath day to be kept , he cit●th , gen. . . exod. . . exod. . . exod. . . exod. . . numb . . . some some christians there be that keep both saturday and sunday , as the ethiopians . of the iesuites . this sor● or order is of a latter edition then the anabaptists , and therefore not to be om●tted . in descrebing of them i purpose to set downe : . their originall . . their government . their errors , in which they doe not agree with other papists . . that they are of all sects most pernicious and dangerous . . for their orignall , the first foundation was one loyola , a spanish souldier , who was maimed by the french at the siege of pampelona , his right leg being broken by a shot , and his left leg with a stone cast from the wall . this order boasteth much of heavenly visions , and divine revelations ( not unlike the coetanij the anabaptists ) is that the blessed virgin mary appeared to ignatius , with her son iesus in her armes : perswading him to erect this order , to which she promised to be propitious . they will tell you that ignatius was rapped up into heaven and that almighty god shewed him the 〈…〉 or frame by which he created the world , with many such like fancies . moreover , whereas other orders beare the name of their founders ; as the dominicans of dominicke ; the franciscans of francis , they beare the name of jesus : whereas ( saith my author ) they came from the devill , the father of lyes , they being the last engine and device of satan to supplant the truth . this order was confirmed anno . by paul the third bishop of rome . gregory the . bishop of rome , gave to the iesuites a place in rome called the island , in which they demolished many houses , turned many widdowes out of their dwellings and built themselves a most magnificent and sumptuous colledge . it is reported , that it cost in building . tun of gold , in which the pope placed . jesuites of severall nations . . for their government , the jesuites have a chife , whom they call their generall , who attendeth upon the pope in rome , their late general was claudius aquaviva , his office is to governe the whole order , and to make new orders : and their generalls commands the jesuites receive as divine oracles . they believe and obey their generall as christ himselfe . next their general they have foure assistants , who , as their generall attendeth the pope , so doe they attend their generall . the office of these four are to promote the popes authority into the foure quarters of the world . the iesuites their emissaries abroad , signifie unto them in writing how princes stand affected to the church of rome . moreover , theie office is with the generall to send governors , visiters , recters , and preachers to the whole order , and to send forth the inferiour jesuites into all places of the world , who take upon them all manner of fashions : to doe mischiefe among souldiers they are arrayed like souldiers : in princes courts like noble-men , attending forraigne e●bassadors : in ci●ies like merchants ; yea , sometimes they beg of protestant ministers , as men banished for religion : and all this to dive into the secrets of state , and to disclose the counsells of princes . . for their errors , chemnitius setteth downe . some sew of which i purpose to relate , and especially those in which they differ from other papists . first , they presumptuously arrogate to themselves the name of iesus , which is a name above all names . . they place their generall in equall authority with christ , saying , the voyce of our generall is the voyce of christ. . the jesuites generally maintaine the popes temporall power , as well as spiritual , that he may depose kings , and dispose of their kingdomes , which the french papists doe not allow of , viz. their decree set forth , anno . and among us , hart , bartley , preston , and others disclaime this power given by the jesuites to the pope . . they deny the lawfulnes of the oath of allegiance , which the secular priests doe all generally allow and take : see blackwell , howard , widrington , and the author of the safe guard from ship wrack . . the jesuites also teach it to be not onely lawfull ▪ but also meritorious to lay hands upon the lords anoynted , and to murther heretick kings after the pope hath declared them to bee such : see mariana , anti-cotton ; but the secular priests disclaime and abhor this doctrine . . the jesuites hold that the pope is onely iure divino , a bishop , and that all other bishops hold from him : but the cardinall of lorraine , and the french bishops , with many other , hold bishops to be iure divino : see the history of the councel of trent . . the jesuites with the franciscans beleeve the immaculate conception of the virgin mary , which the dominicans and other papists doe deny . . the jesuites with the pelagians & arminians , hold that god worketh in our conversion onely moraliter , by way of swasion ; but jacobites and other papists , especially the spaniards , ( as we may see in alvares and others ) maintain with all orthodox divines , that god worketh physically , & per modum physici agentis by powerfull inclining the faculty of the will. for confutation of these errors , so many books are written against them in english , and some of them are confuted before , so that i may save my labour . these are the most pernitious and dangerous sort of all others . these are not ignorant sots , like the anabaptists , and others , but educated and brought up in all manner of humane learning , and so more able to doe mischiefe . these take upon them to justifie all the errors and abhominations of antichrist ; yea , their idolatries , and sodomiticall uncleannesse they will defend and maintain . and have they not for this cause , ( a thing most abhominable to be spoken of ) corrupted the writings of the ancient fathers , and new printing of them , make them speak as they wou'd have them , and also written many books in their names to beare witnesse with them of their novelties ? a volume will not containe their cumbustions that they have raised in kingdoms and states . their plotting of treasons , and especially the powder-treason , a divillish designe , not to be beleeved in ages to come . their murthering of princes , & all these under pretence of holines . o god , that art in heaven , dissipate their councells ; o christ , the redeemer of thy church by the grace of thy holy spirit , deliver england from these wicked ass●ssians , and remove them far from our dwellings . one thing i will adde , to shew what impostors they are . i will set downe , how by a pretended delusion of theirs , a few of them had almost perverted a whole kingdome of christians , in which there is a patriarke and eighteen bishops . in the year of our lord , . tenurazes being king of the georgians , the persian army entred his countrey , spoyled divers towns , carryed away many prisoners , & among others ceteba the kings mother out of the city cremon . the old queen refusing to become a mahom●tan , and speaking ill of mahomet , was put to death , and her body cast out into the fields , left unburied to be eaten of wild beasts . there being at that time certaine jesuites in persia , they sought for her body but found it not , ( for moacla , a late servant of liers , who was slave to a persian , got leave of her master to bring home the body and embalme it ) the jesuites found a dead mans head , and embalming it , travelled towards georgia with it : and drawing neare , they sent a messenger to the king , to let him understand that certaine roman christians were come out of persia who brought with them the head of the holy martyr cetaba his mother , which had delivered them out of many dangers . the prince hearing this went a dayes journey with a great troop of his nobility and clergy , and brought the holy relique to chachete ▪ & with great honor and celebrity placed it in the church of the holy martyr st. george of aberdall , and used them with all respect , and sent them great gifts , which they refused , saying that they had vowed poverty : infinite miracles were wrought dayly , great offerings they had , the sick resorted to them . those that were past cure , they told them that their sins were great , and they needed a long time of penance which they prescribed them , and after to returne , before which time they usually dyed : others of whom they had hope of recovery , they used means , being physitians , & attributed their health to the holy relique , and to the bishop of rome , whom loving jesus had left his vicar here upon ●●rth : by this means they enticed many to the r●mish religion of the nobility , and had great hopes of the king himself ; but in the middest of all this came leue●s from moacla his mothers maid , that the king might ransome his mothers body which she had with the other prisoners . the king agreeing with the persian king ▪ had home his mothers body and many captives , which manifestly knew it to be his mothers body with her head on . at the same time came also certaine muleters cut of persia , who affirmed that they were in the jesuites company , when they cut off the head of a malefactor , as they supposed , and embalmed it : whereupon the king commanded the jesuites to prison , who were delivered at the 〈◊〉 of some of the nobility . this history is written in greek by gregorius hieromonachus , the patriarchall exa●ch from tr●pazunt , an. . by this ●eanes the jesuites had almost perverted the whole countrey of georgia . from this sect the lord deliver us . there are many other sects among us , as they ●ultiply dayly . there is but one truth , but errors are infinite . i will conclude with the prayer that 〈◊〉 mother church hath taught us : that it would please almighty god to bring into the way of truth all such as have erred and are deceived : which god grant for his blessed son jesus chris●s sake . sir thomas overburies character of a iesuite . a jesuite ( saith he ) is a larger spoone for a traytor to seed with the devill than any other order . unclasp him , and he is a gray wolfe with a golden star in his fore-head . so superstitious , he follw●eth the pope that he forsaketh christ in not giving caesar his due . his vowes seem heavenly , but with medling with state businesse he seemeth to mixe heaven and earth together . his best elements are confession and pe●ance ; by the first he findeth out mens inclinations , and by the latter heaps wealth to his seminary . hee sprang from ignatius loyola , a spanish souldier , and though he had long since found out the invention of the canon , he thought he had not done mischiefe enough . he is a false key to open princes cabinets , and pry into their counsells ; and where the popes excommunication thunders , he holds the de-crowning of kings to be no more sin , then our puritans doe the suppressing of bishops . the order t is full of irregularity and disobedience , and ambitious above all measure ; for of late dayes in portugall and the indies he rejected the name of jesuite , and would be called apostles disciple . in rome , and other countries that give him freedome , he weares a maske upon his heart : in england he shuffles in , and puts it upon his face . no place in our climate hideth him so secretly as a ladies chamber . the modesty of the pursevant hath onely forborne the bed , and so mist him . there is no disease in christendome that may so properly be called the kings evill . to conclude , will you know him beyond the sea ? in his seminary he is a fox ; but in the inquisition a lyon rampant . since the printing of this book , i hear of an assembly wherein one preacheth against the deity of christ : and of another great congregation of familists , and of atheisticall books published . i most humbly entreat almighty god for jesus christs sake in mercy to look upon us , and to keep our poore church from these doctrines of the devill , amen . of the pelagians . wricing of the hereticks and secta●ies of these times , ● thinke it not amisse , to write somewhat of the pelagians ; their ancient errors reviving among us . pelagius was a welch-man : and he is usually stiled pelagius the briton , to distinguish him from pelagius the samosatensian bishop ; a man learned and orthodox : luther saith , he was called pelagius of pelagus the sea ; his errors like the sea over-flowing in a manner the whole world . his name in welch was morgan , which signifieth the sea . he lived in the time of the emperor theodosius the younger , about the yeare of our lord , . his errors were condemned in the synod of carthage , an. . in which there assembled . bishop● ; and among other saint argustine : and also in the melivitan councell held in africa : his errors are set downe by augustine , hierome , ambrose , isidore , prosper , and fulgentius . pontanus setteth them downe to be twelve . . he taught that adam had dyed , although he had not sinned by the law of nature , and so sinne not to bee the cause of death . adam● sin to b● noxious to himselfe onely , and not to his posterity ; and th●re to be no original sinne . lust and co●cupiscence being naturall not to be evill , but rather good ; and sin not to be propagated by generation . . the former being granted , children to have no originall sin from their parents . . the children of the faithfull , though not batized , to be saved , and to enjoy everlasting life , but not in heaven . . men to have now free-will , even after sin , which is sufficient and fit to doe well without gods grace . . gods grace to be obtained by the merit of our workes . . the word grace in holy scripture , not to be meant the gracious remission of sin and the donation of the holy ghost , but the p●omulgation of doctrine . . faith to be the knowledge of the law and history as they call it , not a speciall worke and our perseverance in faith . . the law of god to be satisfied by externall obedience , neither it to be impossible for a man to keep . . the prayers of the church for sinners , that they may be converted ; and for the faithfull to persevere to be made in vai●e : because it is in the power of our owne free-will . a●d wee need not aske that of god that we have power to d●e our selves . . they doe mocke and scoffe at the doctrine of predestination● explo●ing it out of the church . these errors need no confu●ation , being so opposite to the holy scripture . soule-sleepers . that the soule dyeth with the body is an old and despicable heresie , raised in arabia , about the time of origen , and extinguished by his dispute immediately after the birth thereof : such as were infected with this opinion were termed by saint augustine arabici , by reason of the province in which this error first arose . this heresie is risen up againe among us , and an abscure author laboureth to maintaine in a treatise late published among us , intituled mans mortality , in which hee bringeth an argument out of gen. . . where adam is told that for his disobedience he must turne unto dust from whence he was made , and not onely his body , but also his soule , which came not out of the dust . in the description of mans creation by moses , you may manifestly see the immortality of the soule . when god created the beasts , &c. he said , let the earth bring forth every living thing : but when he made man , let us make man in our owne image . and againe , the lord god made man of the dust of the earth ; that is his body : and for his soule , he breathed in his face the breath of life . god created the angels spirits without bodies . the creatures bodies without soules : he took a body and soule and made a man in his own image ; in respect of his body he hath affinity with beasts ; in respect of his soule with heavenly spi●its . the beasts came out of the earth , and to the earth they returne ; so mans body . but his soule came from heaven , and returneth to god that gave it . beside some foolish arguments alledged in the treatise before named , he citeth the words of solomon , ecclsiastes . . for that which befalleth the sonnes of men befalleth beasts , even one thing befalleth them : as the one dyeth , so ●yeth the other , yea , they have all one breath , so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast , for all is vanity . all goe to one place , all are of the dust , and all turns to dust againe . who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward , and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth ? which words were to determination of solomons , but a history of what came in his thoughts , and what troubled him , and stirred him up to a solicitous enquiry , concerning the soules condition , but the state of the soule he determineth , chap. . saying , dust returneth unto the earth from whence it came , and the spirit to god that gave it . to this resolution of solomons , i may adde our lords answer to the saduces , matth. . . i am the god of abraham , the god of isaac , and the god of iacob . god is not a god of the dead , but of the living . this error of theirs is contrary to the holy scriptures , cor. , . . psalme . . luke . . acts . . apocal. . . . to conclude with sap. . though not received in●o the canon , yet it is confessed to be very ancient , and therefore may claime precedency of authority before any heathen philosopher . the soules of the righteous are in the hands of god , and there shall no torment touch them . . in the sight of the unwise they seem to dye , and their departure is taken for misery , and their going from us to utter destruction , but they are in peace . deny the scriptures . among others , one wicked sect denieth the scriptures both of the old and new testament , and account them as things of nought : whereby by gods command they that despised moses law by the mouth of two or three witnesses , were to be put to death , these wicked ungodly creatures despise both the law and the gospell , and in the presence of a cloud of witnesses : yea , as i am credibly informed in publike congregations they vent these their damnable opinions almighty god deliver our poore church from them . of the seekers , or expecters . many have wrangled so long about the church , that at last they have quite lost it , and go under the name of expecters and seekers , & doe deny that there is any true church , or any true minister , or any ordinances : some of them affirme the church to be in the wildernesse , and they are seeking for it there : others say that it is in the smoke of the temple , & that they are groping for it there , where i leave them praying to god to open their eyes and give them repentance , that they may consider from whence they are fallen , and returne againe to the bosome of that church , from which they have , to the great dishonour of god , and the scondalizing of the gospell made so fearfull a defection . divorsers . these i terme divorsers , that would be quit of their wives for slight occasions ; and to maintaine this opinion , one hath publ●shed a tractate of divorce , in which the bonds of marriage are let loose to inordinate lust , putting away wives for many other causes , besides that which our saviour onely approveth ; namely in case of adulterie , who groundeth his error upon the words of god , gen. . . i will make him a helpe meet for him . and therefore if she be not an helper , nor meet for him , he may put her away , saith this author . which opinion is flat contrary to the words of our saviour , matth. . . it hath been said also , whosoever shall put away his wife , let him give her a testimoniall of divorsement : but i say to you , whosoever shall put away his wife , except it be for fornication , causeth her to cowmit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorsed , committeth adulterie . againe , he confirmeth the same , matth , . . i say therefore unto you , that whosoever shall put away his wife , except it be for whoredome , and marry another , committeth adulterie : and whosoever doth marrie her that is divorced , committeth adultery , vid. mar. . . luk. . . cor. . . of the papists . a question may be asked , why i ranke the papists among the late hereticks . to which i answer , that there is a great difference between the ancient papists , and the moderne , since their trent conventicle ; and therefore i rank them with the former sectaries ; their doctrines being many of them new . in describing of then errors , i purpose to shew their differences from the protestants , which are set down at large in master perkins reformed catholike . . concerning free-will ; the dissent is in the cause of the freedome of mans will in spirituall things , and especially in the first conversion of a sinner . the papists say , that mans will worketh with gods grace in the first conversion of a sinner by it selfe : we say that mans will worketh with gods grace in the first conversion , yet not of it selfe , but by grace , cor. . . . concerning originall sinne ; the difference between them and us standeth not in the abolishment of it , but in the manner and measure of the abolishment of it . they affirme originall sinne to be so farre taken away after baptisme , that it ceaseth to be sinne properly , and is nothing else but a defect , and want , making the heart ready to conceive sinne : we teach , although it be taken away in the regenerace in sundry respect : yet it doth remaine in them , not as a want or defect , but as sin , and that properly , as st. paul affirmeth , rom. . . . of the certainty of salvation , we hold that a man may bee certaine of his salvation in this life . they also hold the same . the difference is , they hold the certainty to be by hope , and we by faith , iohn . . the fourth poynt is of the justification of a sinner . . concerning the matter of our justification . they grant that i● justification sin is pardoned by the merits of christ , and that none can be j●stified without remission of sin . . that the righteousnesse whereby man is justified commeth from christ , and from him alone . . the most learned of them say , that the merit of christs death is imputed to every sinner that doth beleeve for his satisfaction before god. we say that the satisfaction made by christs death and obedience is imputed to us , and becommeth our righteousnes . they say it is our satisfaction , and not our righteousnesse . the second difference is about the manner of our justification ; we both agree that a sinner is justified by faith : the difference is , the papists understand a generall faith ; whereby a man beleeveth the articles of religion to be true . wee hold the faith which justifieth to be a particuler faith ; wherby we apply to our selves the promises of righteousnes & life everlasting by christ. . the papists say , that a man is justified by faith , yet not by faith alone , but also by other vertues , as hope , love , &c. . they say that we are justified by works ; as causes we say we are justified by works , as by signes and fruits of our justification before god. fiftly , touching merit we agree , that merits are so far necessary , that no man can be saved without them . . that christ is the root and fountaine of all merit . the papists place merits within a man , making two sorts of them , viz. the merits of persons , which is to bee found in infants dying after baptisme : and the merit of works , which they teach to be meritorious two wayes : first , by covenant , because god hath made a promise to reward them . secondly , because christ hath meritted that our works should merit : we renounce all merit , and rest onely upon the merits of christ. the sixth poynt of satisfaction . . we hold a civill satisfaction , & a recompence for injuries . . we hold also a canonical , whereby having given offence to the church , or any part thereof , a man doth make an open testimony of repentance . . we hold that christ hath made satisfaction for our sins , and the punishment of them both eternall and temporall . they hold ▪ that christ by his death hath made satisfaction for all the sinnes of men , and for the eternall punishment of them all , yet so as they themselves must satisfie for the temporall punishment of them either on earth or in purgatory , which we deny . the seventh poynt of traditions . the papists teach , that besides the written word , there bee certaine unwritten traditions , which must be believed as profitable and necessary to salvation . we hold the scriptures to be most perfect , containing in them all things necessary to salvation . the eighth part concerning vowes . we say lawfull vowes may be props and stays of gods worship , but not the worship it selfe . they hold vowes of things not commanded to be part of the worship of god : as continency , poverty , regular obedience , which are against christian liberty . the ninth poynt for images . we acknowledge the civill use of images , but we deny any religious worship of them . the tenth is the reall presence . we deny not the presence it selfe ; and although we hold a reall presence of christs body and bloud in the sacrament : yet we doe not take it to be locall , bodily or substantiall but spirituall and mysticall to the signes by sacramental rela●ion , & to the communicants by faith alone . the eleventh is the sacrifice of the lords supper , which they call the masse . we acknowledge the lords supper to be a sacrifice . . because it is a memoriall of christs sacrifice upon the crosse. . because every communicant doth offer up himselfe body and soule a living and acceptable sacrifice unto god. . because of the almes given to the poore . they ma●e the eucharist to be a reall , externall , or bodily sacfice offered unto god. 〈◊〉 twelfth poynt of fasting . we maintaine three sorts thereof , to wit , a morall , civill , and religious . the first being morall , is a practice of sobriety and temperance to be used in the whole course of our life . the second civill , when upon some particuler and politicke considerations we abstaine 〈◊〉 flesh at certaine seasons of the yeare , to preserve the breed of cattell , and to maintaine the calling of fisher-men . the third , a religious fast , when the duties of religion , as the exercise of prayer , and humiliation be used in our fasts . we joyne with them in the allowance of the principall ends of fasting . the first , that thereby the minde may become attentive in the service of god. the second that the rebellion of the ●lesh may be subdued . the third is to professe our guiltinesse , and to testifie our humil●ation before god. thirdly , we yeeld to them that fasting is an helpe and furtherance to the worship of god , yea and a good worke also , if it be used in a good manner . our distent is in three things . first , they prescribe certaine times of fastirng , as necessary to be kept . secondly , they prescribe a difference of mea●● , as whi●me●●ts and fish , &c. onely to be used on their fas●ing dayes , and that for conscience sake . thirdly , we differ touching the ends of fasting ; for they make abstinence it selfe in a person fitly prepared , to be a part of gods worship . to conclude , we doe not condemne fasting , but the abuse of it . the thirteenth poynt of the state of perfection . our consent is , that all true beleevers have a state of perfection in this life : and this perfection hath two parts : first is the imputation of christs perfect obedience : the second part , of a christian mans obedience is sincerity or righteousnesse . the difference is , they teach that they cannot onely keep all the commandements of the law , and thereby deserve his owne salvation , but goe beyond the law , and doe works of super-erogation . the fourteenth poynt is of the worshipping of saints and especially of invocation . our consent ; the true saints of god , as the prophets , apostles , and martyrs are to be worshipped and honoured three wayes . first , by keeping a memoriall of them in a godly manner . secondly , in giving thanks to god for them , and the benefits that god vouchsafed by them . thirdly , they are to be honoured by an imitation of their faith , humility , meeknesse , repentance , and good vertues , in which they excelled . the difference stands in the manner of worshipping of saints . the papists make two degrees of religious worship ; the highest they call latreia , whereby god is worshipped , and that alone douleia , whereby the saints and angels are worshipped : we also distinguish adoration or worship for it is either religious , or civill ; religious worship we give to god alone , civill worship we give to men . to come to the poynt , we deny that any civill worship is to be given to the saints , being absent from us ; much lesse any religious worship at all , call they it what they will. the fifteenth poynt of the intercession of saints . we hold that the saints departed , pray to god by giving thanks to him for their owne redemption , and for the redemption of the whole church . secondly , that they pray generally for the state of the whole church . they hold that the saints in heaven do make intercession to god for particuler men , according to their severall wants , and receiving particuler mens prayers , they present them unto god : which doctrine we flatly renounce . the sixteenth poynt of implicite faith , we hold that there is a kinde of implicite faith , as in the time of a mans first conversion , and in the time of some grievous temptation . a second kinde of implicite faith is in regard of apprehension , when as a man cannot say distinctly and certainly . i believe the pardon of my sinnes , but i doe unfainedly desire the pardon of them all , and doe desire to repent . the difference is ; the pillars of the roman church , lay downe this ground , that faith in his owne nature is not a knowledge of things to be beleeved , but a reverent assent unto them , whether they be knowne or unknowne : hereupon they build , that if a man know some necessary poynts of religion , as the doctrine of the god-head , of the trinity , of christs incarnation , and of our redemption , &c. it is needlesse to know the rest , and it is sufficient to give his consent to the church , and to beleeve as the pastors beleeve . this implicite faith we reject : for ●aith containeth a knowledge of things to be believed ; and nothing is believed that is not knowne . the seventeenth poynt of purgatory . they hold it to be a part of hell , into which an entrance is made onley after this life : which we deny having no warrant for it in gods word . . we differ from them touching the meanes of purgatory , they say that men are purged by suffering the paines of purgatory , whereby they satisfie for their v●niall sinnes , and for the temporall punishment of their mortall sinnes . we teach the contrary , holding that nothing can free us from the least punishment of the smallest sinne , but the sufferings of christ , and purge us from the least taint of corruption , saving the bloud of christ. for prayer for the dead , which the author joyneth to this poynt . we hold christian charity is to ex●●●d it selfe to the dead and it may sh●w it selfe in their honest buriall , in preservation of their good names , and in relievi●g their poste●●●y . we pray further in generall for the faithfull departed , that god would hasten their joyfull resurrection , and the full accomplishment of their happinesse , both for the body and the soule . but to pray for particuler men departed , and to pray for deliverance out of purgatory , we dare not ; we think it unlawfull , because we have neither promise nor commandement so to doe . the eighteenth poynt of the supremacy . in causes ecclesiasticall , our consent : first , for the founding of the primitive church , the ministery of the word was distinguished by degrees , not only of order , but also of power , as peter was called to the highest degree , eph ▪ . . christ ascended up an high , and gave gifts unto men , as some to be apostles ▪ some prophets , some evangelists , some pastors and doctors . now howsoever one apostle be not above another ; yet one apostle is above another , as an apostle is above an evangelist ; and an evangelist above pastors and teachers . and peter being an apostle , was above all evangelists and pas●ors , having the highest roome in the ministery of the new testament . secondly , among the twelve apostles , peter had a three-fold priviledge . first ; of authority , cephas , with iames an● iohn were called pillers , gal. . . . secondly , of primacy , being first named ; the names of the twelve apostles are these ; the first is simon called peter . thirdly , of principality ; in regard of the measure of grace in which he excelled , math. . . the difference is , the papists give to peter and to the bishops of rome his successors , a supremacy under christ , above all causes and persons : which wee deny ; affirming kings and princes to bee supreme within their owne dominions . the nineteenth of the efficacy of the sacraments . our consents . we teach sacraments to be signes , to represent christ with his benefits unto us . . instruments , whereby god offereth and giveth the said benefits unto us . the difference . first , that sacraments are physicall instrements , having force in them to give grace . secondly , that the very action of the minister dispensing the sacrament , as it is a worke done , giveth grace , if the party bee prepared . we hold the contrary . the twentieth poynt of saving faith. our consent . . they teach the property of faith to believe the whole word of god , and especially the redemption of mankinde by christ. . they a vouch , that they beleeve and look to be saved by christ , and by him alone , and by the meere mercy of god in christ. . the most learned of them hold and confesse that the obedien●e of christ is imputed to them for the satisfaction of the law , and their reconciliation with god. . they avouch that they put their whole trust and confidence in christ , and in the meere mercy of god for their salvation . . they hold that every man must apply the promise of life everlasting by christ unto himselfe . though in coloured termes they seem to agree with us , yet indeed they abolish and deny the substance thereof : namely , the particuler , and certaine application of christ crucified , and his benefits to our selves . the . poynt of repentance . our consent . . conclusion ; that repentance is the conversion of a ●inner , and that it is passive or active ; passive is an action of god , whereby he converteth a man being yet unconver●ed ; active , is an action of man , whereby man being once turned of god , turnes himselfe . . conclusion : that repentance standeth : in confessing of the mouth . contition of the heart . satisfaction in deed . . conclusion : that in repentance we are to bring forth outward fruits , worthy amendment of life . we dissent not from the church of rome in the doctrine of repentance , but in their abusing of it . . they place , the beginning of repentance , partly in themselves , and partly in the holy ghost . . they take repentance or penance for that publike discipline that was used against offenders in the open congregation . . they make it a sacrament . . they make it a meritorious cause of remission of sinne , and everlasting life : and in these poynts ( saith my author ) we dissent from the church of rome . in the . place he setteth downe some sinnes of the romish church , viz. atheisme , idolatry , and adultery , in permitting stewes , and brothell-houses . i pray god keep us in these distracted times from atheisme , and sacriledge , which ensu●th thereupon . in master perkins reformed catholike , you may see the confutation of the popish errors before named at large . a review of the sectaries ▪ comparing them with the papists . for the sacrament of baptisme the papists exclude those infants heaven that are not baptized ; and the anabap●ists affirme the baptisme of children to be the marke of the beast , and antichristian . the papists attribute too much to the element of bread in the holy communion , accounting him no good christian that will not call it his lord god. some of these sectaries , as the brownists , mocke and scoffe at the sacrament of the lords supper , calling it a two-penny banquet . for the number of sacraments , the papists will have too ma-many : and some of these sectaries too few . the papists give too much reverence to the blessed virgin ▪ holy apostles , and saints departed : and some of these hereticks blaspheme the holy virgin , whom all nations should call blessed ; as the melchiorists saying , maledicta sit caro mariae . the papists are blamed for saying too often the lords prayer : the brownists , and some of other sectaries will not say the lords prayer at all ; some of them affirming it to be an abominable idoll , though it be commanded to be said by our lord himselfe . the papists will not onely keep the lords day , but also many holy-dayes : some of these sectaries will neither keepe holy-dayes , nor the lords day ; as the famalists and an●i-sabbatarians . the papists confesse their sinnes , and suppose they cannot enter heaven without a particuler confession of them : some of these hereticks will not confesse their sinnes at all ; affirming god can see no sinne in them : as the antinomia●s . in equivocating they are alike : equivocation is a cunning colouring of a lye , which is against scripture , against the rule of equity , an hindring of justice , the way to perjury , the divills creature , who is the father of lying a princi●pll proppe and pillar of antichrists kingdome . for lying : i know not whether papists or sectaries shall carry away the bell : they tell lyes , they print lies , they preach lyes , they paint lies , and both without controule . bullinger telleth us that the anabaptists brought cart-loads of lies to maintaine their detestable opinions . piae fraudes ; as the papists have piae fraudes , to draw men to godlinesse , as purgatory , and such like ; so have the sectaries , and especially the anabaptists have tricks and devises , as visions , revelations , dreames ; yea , false miracles to maintain their cause . for hypocrisie they are both alike ▪ they come in sheepes cloathing ; but inwardly they are ravening wolves . the anabaptists entred munster like lambes , but became wolves , having gotten the upper hand . for their uncleannesse ; the papists permit stewes ●but the uncleannesse of the familists and anabaptists in their spirit●all marriages , and other abhominations , are not with a modest tongue to be spoken ▪ for churches ; the papists spare no cost in erecting and trimming them , they would make them if they could like heaven it selfe : whereas some of these sectaries would destroy and dem●lish them . last of all , the papists worship god in trinity , and trinity in unity : and whereas some of these sectaries blaspheme the holy trinity ; their opinions being so diabolicall and prodigiously impious , that it is not for a christian to name their opinions . it hope that our governours will drive these also from our folds , as they doe the popish emissaries . it is fit for all that are christians to avoyd all those who speake against christ , and to account them as the enemies of god , and corrupters of soules postscript . since the publishing of this heresiography , i have been abused above measure , not onely with reviling language in the streets , as i goe ; but also in my estate : some sectaries of my parish , denying now to pay me any thing at all ; affirming , that they are to maintaine the minister of their owne congregation . and that which troubleth them , is my defence of tithes , and the ordinance of parliament for the true payment of them . the non-payment whereof , is one of the chiefe inducements , that the brownists and some other sectaries have to entise the silly people , and to poyson them with their other errors : which they learnt from the anabaptists , who taught also , that christian men were to pay no rent , nor submit to any government : for which the german princes rooted them out of their dominions . now these latter hereticks daring not to forbid payment of rent , nor magistracy , raile altogether upon the payment of tithes , and the ordinance for tithes , lately set out by parliament . and some of them in a scandalous libell , among other things affirme , doctor featlies divell to be transmigrated into old ephraim pagitt , ( would to god i had his learning ) who is altogether for fat tithes , &c. i pray god keep the divell out of them . a learned man writeth , * that if a man should binde himselfe to the divell , to doe his uttermost in supplanting the kingdome of christ , he could not attempt it any way more directly , then in driving the ministers to such straits and difficulties , that having not convenient and necessary maintenance , they must either give over their callings , or devoyd of courage and comfort , in sorrow exercise the same : by occasion whereof , others shall be discouraged from the study of divinity , nothing desirous to buy poverty so deare . such , ( as i have said before ) doe not onely occidere presbyteros , kill christs ministers ; but also with julian presbyterium , the very ministery of christ. yea , they strike at the root of gods service , at christs priesthood , going about to destroy the ministry and seminary of gods church . but for the payment of tithes which they so blaspheme , the ministers have to them a double right . first , by speciall reservation of almighty god. secondly , by humane donation . for the first , men have soules as well as bodies , and god hath provided for them both : as in the week he allowed six days for the body , and sanctified the seventh for the soule : so of mens goods , he alloweth nine parts for the body , and reserveth a tenth for the soule , to maintaine his ministers , to beget them unto god , and teach them his knowledge : a tenth part he precisely enjoyned , that mans covetousnesse should not rob his ministers , which some would doe ; if the quota pars were lest to their discretions . the reservation of tithe is set downe in expresse words , levit. . . all the tithe of the land , whether of the seed of the land , or of the fruit of the tree , it is the lords , it is holy to the lord. [ all ] none excepted [ is ] no● hereafter shall be , but now is and hath been : as the sabbath was observed , before the fourth commandement was promulga●●d , exod. . so tithes were paid long before this reservation to the levites . you may read of abraham paying tithe to melchisedech and of lacob promising to pay them . and now god reserving them to himselfe , and establishing them upon the levites , so we have a succession of them unto christ. now hath not christ a priest-hood , and that more excellent then melchisedechs , or the levites : melchisedech blessed abraham ; but in our high priest , all the nations of the earth are blessed . the apostle telleth us ( as chrysostome affirmeth ) that christ received tithe from levi by abraham , father of the faithfull , who paying tithe to melchisedech ▪ shadowed out the faithfull paying tithe to christ. for abraham payed tithe not to the priest that offered leviticall sacrifices of bullocks and goats , but of bread and wine : setting ●orth to what priests we must pay tithes to . hath not christ our high priest a priest-hood ? yes , and why should not tithes bee due to his priest-hood ? are his priests to serve for nothing ? he telleth us himselfe , that the labou●er is worthy of his wages . how dare any man deny tithes to christs priest-hood ? tell me , is christs priest-hood les●e deserving than aarons or melchisedechs , or hath he lost his right , or hath christ lesse care of the ministers of of the gospell , then was taken for the priests of the law ? saint paul saith , they are worthy of double honour . or hath christ renounced his right in tithes ? no , you may read of his expresse allowance of them , matth. . . it is his ordinance . cor. . . doe●ce not know , that they which wait at the altar , are partakers with the altar ? so hath god ordained , that they which preach the gospell should live of the gospell : god hath ordained , saith the apos●le , where can we finde a●y other ordina●ce ? the apostles s●●teth downe the difference between the levi●●call priests and christ , heb. . . they under the tabernacle , take tithes of them who dyed ; but here he taketh them that liveth for ever . in which text he sheweth , that tithes are not leviticall and a mutable maintenance , but the eternall maintenance of gods service , used before the law , when the priest-hood was in the father of the family , stated on , ( not first invented sor ) levi , during the levites service : and when the body came which was christs , and levi with all his typicall service was to be abolished ; then ceased not tithes in right , although in practise they were not paid by pagans , but were transferred to christ , and to his ministers for their maintenance ; yea to the priest-hood of christ who liveth for ever . let these sectaries shew any one sillable in all the holy scriptures in which tithes are ceremoniall , as the sacrifices were , which were types and figures of christs sacrifice , which he offered once for all , and in him determined . or where christ or his apostles may but seeme to have abrogated , abolished , or changed them , or why the law for tithes should be more abolished then the law for the sabbath : the service of god continuing , why should not the maintenance thereof continue . to conclude , as the christians , so also the mahometans , who are much more numerous than the christians , pay their tithes with great conscience , the detention of them ▪ is one of the grand sinnes , which the two inquisitor angels of their law doe examine soules after death , viz. whether they have payd their tithes without fraud , as witnesseth ioannes baptist a alfaqui , who had been a mahometan priest. the wisedome of almighty god , the practise of all ages , the example of patriarks , abraham and iacob ; yea the commandement of god hath taught us to render god a tenth . if this will not suffice , wee have another right , a title as good , and as ancient , as any man can shew for his lands ; that is , the donation of tithes to the church , confirmed by the kings and parliaments of this kingdome from time to time , ever since christianity flourished amongst us . for this vid. my christianography , page . and sir henr. spelman de non temerandis ecclesi●s . last of all consider the equity of this maintenance , whether it be better for men to pay a tenth , then have these seducers to creep into their ho●ses , and get from their wives , ( being silly women ) children and servants , not a tenth , or two and nine pence for an ob●ation , but great summes of money , whatsoever they can pro●e from them ( like the pharisees ) devou●ing widdowes houses under the colour of long prayers . but whereas some of them write the divell to be in me , sir thomas mo●e writeth of a devi●l called negotium , businesse , which carryeth more to hell then all the divells beside , who was in them that would not come to the feast : one being so basie in marrying a wife , that he could not come , another having b●ught o●en , another having bo●ght a farme , &c. i read also of another divill called sacriledge , which st. peter te●leth us to bee in ananias . why hath the divell filled thy hea●t . if the divill were in him who gave halfe that hee had , and kept back but part ; what divill is in them , that give nothing themselves , but se●se upon those lands and goods , which not they , but other men had consecrated to the service of almighty god , with many curses to the violaters of their donations ? this divell sacriledge at this time , seemeth to bee a very devou● divill , very carefull of gods service that it might be better performed , he would have the ministers lands taken from them ; that they might follow their studies and not bee encombred with them ; yea , a carefull divell also of the ministers maintenance he would have them to have competencies , and the k●ng and state to have the over-plus of their means , all which godly pretences are hypocriticall , and the maskes of vile in●quity , and holy thes● ; for it is not the ministers profit they looke at , neither the commod●ty of the king or state , but their owne covetousnesse , by which some seek to satisfie their owne pride , riot , wanton and greedy ●usts . like iudas , who will not stick to ●el christ himselfe for money : such a reformation as was in king ▪ henry the eights time doe some gape after , in which almost every m●n got somewhat● some one gentleman got ten parsonages , some other twenty . read doctor turners book entituled spirituall physick ; almost in every house and alehouse , you might see carpets , and cushions made of church-ornaments . after that men had devoured the wealth of the monasteries , they began to long after the lands of bishops , and cathedrall churches , ( as mr. fox relateth ) and for this purpose they set sir thomas s●ymor a worke , to promote it to the king. to whom the king answered , there are a sort of you to whom i have liberally given of the possession of menasteries , which like as you have lightly gotten , so you have unthriftily spent , some at dice , others on gay ●loathes , and others worse ; and now you would make a ●●eavance of church lands to accomplish your greedy appetites , &c. surely it is a disgrace to religion , that in reformations mens thoughts doe runne , even in the greater labours and learning in the church , to pill and pole the ministery , and bring it to beggery ; being the curse pronounced against the priests the posterity of eli : from which curse the lord keep this poor church . an extract of the acts of the nationall synod of the reformed churches of france , assembled by the kings permission at charantoun , anno . . decemb . and dayes following . upon what hath been reported by the commissioners of the maritime provinces , that divers comming from forreigh coun●ries , and who goe under the name of inde●endents , because they ●each that every particular congregatio● ought to be governed by its owne particuler laws , without a● depending of any in ecclesiasticall matters , and without any obligation to acknowledg the authority of coll●ques , or classes and synods for its government and conduct , setlling their abode in this kingdome , and hereafter they might cause here amongst us many great inconveniences if in due time there were not order taken , the assembly fearing lest the contagion of this poyson gaining ground insensibly should throw trouble and disorder among us ; and judging the said sect of independents to b● not onely prejudiciall to the church of god , in so far , that it endeavours to bring in confusion , opening a gate to all kind of singularities and extravagancies , and taking away all meanes of any remedy to the evill , but also most dangerous to the state , where ( if it had place ) there might as many religions set up , as there be parishes or particular congregations , doth enjoyne to all the provinces , and particularly to the maritimes , to take heed that the evill take no foote in this kingdome ▪ to the end that peace and uniformity as well in religion as in discipline , may be inviolably preserved ; and that nothing be brought in amongst us which may alter in any kind the service due unto their majesties . garrissole moderator . basnage adjoynt . blo●del secretary . le coq . secretary . errata . page . l. . read harlem . p. . l. . r. . p l. . r. polem●cae . p. . l. . r. balamites . . rebellious . ● . l. . r. presbyterie . p. . l. . r. all . p. . l. r. into their society , but such as are content to have their goods . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e paulus diacon . lib. . theodo● . lib. ● . cap. ● . notes for div a -e come . to you . in sheepes clo●thing . 〈…〉 〈◊〉 . . notes for div a -e 〈…〉 anno horten. de anab . pag. . 〈…〉 sl●id● . ●● . ch. nelles . pag. ●● . ho tens . pag. . in tanta ho●um homi●um colluvie nc unus quidem i●ventus o●edilite as dedice . it . sleid. . lumber . horten . page . hortens . p. . page . hortc●s p . sleidan . ho ten p. . page . hort. page . ch. niclles . page . . ch niclles , page . ibid. page page . four conscione multipher le nomo e deu peuple di dieu . ch. nicll p. the 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 . set downe by ●ontanus and bullinger . gastius p. . anabap. sumunt sibi omnes praedicandi 〈◊〉 sleid. com . lib. . licere plebeis in magistratibus 〈◊〉 sumere . non licere chri●tani● justurandum ●●cere , sleid. lib. . error . answer . maledicta sit c●ro mariae , bull in advers . anabab fol. ● ● . error . answer , error . answer . error . error . ●●emiae paid respen . . blasphemy . instit. . cap. . ss . . vid. the harmony o● their conf sio●s orati . upon levit. hoc si qu●s neglex●rit & deriserlt , mortis poena affilgetur , re●ig . moscov●t . 〈…〉 ▪ gu●do de ●●res . th● a iesu de conv●r omnium gent. . lib. . p : th , a ●esu ividem . navig . ●oseph . indi , cap . the it . cos . lb . . boler , relat . lib. . page . the barbarous cruelty of these sectaries . error . answer . error . error . answer . error . error . answer . rom. ● . co● . error . resp. object . resp. error . iudg. . . . chapters . error . error . answer . error . answer . qu●dam impuri nebulones persuaserunt juxta ●auli vaticinium , . ● . m. . stultis mulierculis ut relictis propriis maritis ipsus sequeretur , bulling , adver . an●b●pt . l●b , . fol. . error . anno . reg. eliz. article . 〈…〉 . article . article . article . article . article . article . article . article . article . histor. david georg . fol. . . muncerians . sleid. com. lib. . . apostolikes . . separatists . . catherists . . silentes . . enthusiasts . . liberi . . adamites . . hutites . . augustinians . . beuckeldians . . melchiorists . . georgians . . menonists . hist. anabap. pag. . . pueris similes . . sevetians . . libertines . . denkians . . orantes . . deo relicti . . monasterienses . . plunged anabaptists . the abyssins baptize not in fonts as we do , but in the church-porch , but with a potful of water ● alvares of the ●●hiop●ans . c. cyp. epist. . ad mag● . manner of rebaptizing . manner of receiving the communion . of their marriages . gast ▪ de catabap . erroribus . spirituall marriages . bulling adver . anabapt . lib. . fol . p●ge de catabap . error . bulling . adver anabap pa communitie of women . bu●ling adver anabaptist l . fol. . qudam imp●ri nebulones pers adebant i vibus mol erculls on osse ip●as salvari ●isi pud citi●m suam p●ostitue● rent , abu●ebantu● autem non absque blasphemia verbo domini . &c. * ordnation . learning . places of mee●ing . gast . . g●stius ▪ de anabapt . exord . lib. . decre●lt senatus tigu●nus merge●eeum qui merserit baptismo eum qui ●rius emerse at . gast p . lib 〈◊〉 no die mul●i ob at a●●baptismums ●bmer si sunt . howe 's chr●p howe 's chr. p. . . how . how . cambden in the life of qu , eliz. p. . 〈◊〉 his epistle . . baptisme to be adm●n●st to the infants of the faithful● . . reason , gods command . gen . , . . exod. . , . acts . , . & . . & . . . , , , gal. . . . isa . . luke . , . heb. ● . — . & . lu●e ● . , . , &c. rom. . . . & . . rev. . . . confirmed by christ. mat. , . mark . , gal ▪ . — gen. . . & . , , . rom. . — ● & . — . & . — . cor. . . esa. . , . & . . acts ▪ , ioh . . cor. . . & , . eph. . ● . — & . . . the apostles practise acts . . 〈◊〉 . gen. , ● & ● ▪ & ● . . ex. . , . house implyeth children therein . gen. . & , , — . , , . num. ●● , &c. psal. . ●● , , . tim. . . . the children o● beleevers ore holy . ● or ● rom. . a●●s . gal . esa . , . psalme . . . & ▪ . & . , , , . luk . . ▪ acts . . . signe of wash●ng away of sin . ro● . ● & . , ▪ z●ch , . cor . — & , acts . , , , , . . one baptisme eph. . , . cor. . . & . , . exod. . . pet. . gen . gal● . . ● , , . t●m . . ●oh . ● ▪ a●ts ● , , ●sal ▪ ● . . . . go●s grace not lessened since christs comming cor. ● . & — . rom , . . . & . — . & . . gen. . . — . luke . . pet. . . — . . . esa . acts . . — & . . . & . , . . ● . gal. . . . mar. 〈◊〉 . . & . , , . eph. . . gen. . , , , . gen . . gal. . . . rom. . , , , . acts . ▪ rom. ● , . & . . rev. ▪ rev hos. . & . . deut. ● . luke . . called also separatists . proph schisme . p. . . their agreement with the donatists . . their agreement with the anabptists . * the brownists 〈◊〉 re●ibap . . 〈◊〉 ●nnovators . . some of their ●rrors . . bitter ●ail●rs . prophane schisme , cap. . mr. ba●● . separ . schisme . . magnifit their owne sect ; iohn robinsons a swer to r. b● page . iohn smiths p●●allei . p . pro●ha●e schisme . ● . . ibidem p. . . they criminate the dutch and french churches . fran●●● iohnsons ar●i●les against the dutch and french churches . vid. dr. halls apology against the browniste . page ▪ . pretend sc●ip●ure . . blame our congregations fo● p●ophanenesse . . the prophanenesse of t●eir sect. mr. white . vid. p●●phane schisme of the brownists p , . ibid page ● . ac●um . . ●eb ▪ . the testimony of the ●utch church co●ce●ning the browni●●s . of the magistrates of amsterdam vid. proph . schi●m . page . their equivoca●ing and palliating their wicked●esse . vid. proph . schis page . prophane schis . page p. ● ▪ ib dem . ibid. p. . he did like solomon , who would know all secrets . proph. schsm p. . blame the conve● sat● o● of our ministers . . ordination of our m●nisters . 〈…〉 brownists ord●nat●on ▪ . their singing of psalmes . propha●e schl●sme . p. . . of their pr●phe●●ing . . 〈…〉 . eccles. 〈◊〉 〈…〉 . bpownists . barrowists . wilkinsonia●s . iohnsonians . ainsworthians . robinsoni●●● . their cursing one another . pro●hare schisme . p. . propha●e schisme . page . . schisme a great sinne . a howe 's chro● . p. ● ▪ how. ch●on . p. . . sco●s description of a brownist . of the semiseparat●sts . answer to the apologeticall na●ration , p. , . the 〈…〉 . i marvaile why they will say pauls prayer . the grace of our lord iesus christ , the love of god the father , and not say the lords prayer . the history of david george is written by his son in 〈◊〉 , nich-bles● 〈◊〉 and published by iacob beeb , pri●ted ●t daventry , . his doctrine is set down in articles . d●s●●●●●y of the errors of the 〈◊〉 p●ge . christopher viret . knewst . p. . knewst . p. . knewst . fol. en●ch clapham do de●isons white w●lfe , page . ● . . castalian order . . grindletenian , . of the mountains . . of the valleyes . . of the scattered flock . . caps order . how. chron. lamb. hortens . p. . ●onfi● . decad . . lib . page . gas●io● page 〈◊〉 . honey 〈…〉 . page . page . page . page . page , . . 〈…〉 〈…〉 vid do. de●iso●s white-w●●te . lo●d day . bishop of lond. bontanus catal . haeret● . gen. . . gen. . gen. , . . concerning free-will . . original sin . . certainty of salvation . . of ●ustification . . merit . . satisfaction . . traditio●s . . of vowes . . images . . reall presence . . the masse . . fasting . . the state of perfection . . worshipping of saints . . intercession of saints . . implicite faith . . purgatory . . supremacy ▪ . efficacy of the sacraments . . saving faith . . of repentance . . the sinnes of the romish church ▪ . baptisme . . lords supper . number of sacraments . . reverence to the blessed virgin. . lords prayer . lords day . . confession of sinnes . . equivocation . lying . . piae fraudes ▪ . hopocrisie . vnclea●n●s . . churches . . blaspheme the trinity . * lower de paupertate ecclesie . there was a sphecial● pr●yer appoy●t●d for men p●ying their 〈◊〉 , with a 〈◊〉 of the t●ue p●iment of them ; 〈◊〉 gods 〈…〉 d●ut . ● . . h●mi●● . . advers ▪ 〈◊〉 . tim. . . vdals n●li me tange e. p ● acts . . the divel t●at was in ananias seemeth to be a conscionable d●vell in respect of the sacr●legious divels of our t●me . most of the ministers of london may pray for ●ompetencies , being not ab● to subsi●● without the charity of their parishioners , their be●ifices being many of them worth but . . . . per annum ; & paying great taxes out of them , as first fruits , tenths , &c. although they are freed from the bishof romes superstitio●s enormities , they are not freed from the payments that the bishops of rome laid upov them . tim. ● . an indictment against england because of her selfe-murdering divisions: together vvith an exhortation to an england-preserving vnity and concord. presented in a sermon preached before the right honourable house of lords in the abby church at westminster; at the late solemne fast, december . . by edmund calamy, b.d. and pastour of aldermanbury in london. calamy, edmund, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing c thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) an indictment against england because of her selfe-murdering divisions: together vvith an exhortation to an england-preserving vnity and concord. presented in a sermon preached before the right honourable house of lords in the abby church at westminster; at the late solemne fast, december . . by edmund calamy, b.d. and pastour of aldermanbury in london. calamy, edmund, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed by i. l. for christopher meredith, at the sign of the crane in pauls church-yard, london : . the first leaf bears an order to print. most running titles read: a sermon to the right honorable house of lords, at the monethly fast, decemb. . . reproduction of the original in the british library. eng bible. -- n.t. -- matthew xii, -- sermons. fast-day sermons -- th century. sects -- england -- sermons -- early works to . great britain -- politics and government -- - -- sermons -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no an indictment against england because of her selfe-murdering divisions:: together vvith an exhortation to an england-preserving vnity and c calamy, edmund d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion die jovis . decemb. . it is this day ordered by the lords in parliament assembled , that the house doth hereby give thanks to master calamy for his great pains taken in the sermon he preached on wednesday the . of this instant december , in the abby church westminster , it being the day of the monethly fast . and this house doth desire him to print and publish the same . and lastly , it is ordered , that none shall print or publish his said sermon without being authorised so to doe under the hand of the said master calamy . io. browne cler. parlamentorum . i doe appoint christopher meredith , to print this sermon , and no man else . edmund calamy . an indictment against england becavse of her selfemvrdering divisions : together vvith an exhortation to an england-preserving vnity and concord . presented in a sermon preached before the right honourable house of lords in the abby church at westminster ; at the late solemne fast , december . . by edmund calamy , b. d. and pastour of aldermanbury in london . cyprian . pacem ecclesiae martyrio praeferimus . peius est scindere ecclesiam quam sacrificare idolo . london , printed by i. l. for christopher meredith , at the sign of the crane in pauls church-yard . . to the right honovrable hovse of lords assembled in parliament . the differences and divisions of england at this day are so many , so great , and so destructive to church and state , as that it cannot but be accounted a transcendent act of piety and charitie for any man to endevour according to his place to compose the one , and remove the other . but though this worke be very excellent , yet it is also very dangerous to him that shall undertake it . for it is often found , that he that will step into reconcile two parties that are a fighting , doth prove the party against which both of them will fight . or if not both , yet alwaies the party that doth the wrong will be a bitter enemie to him that would make up the breach . and therefore it is expressely said , act. . , . that when moses saw two of his brethren striving one aagainst the other , and stept in to set them at one , saying , sirs , ye are brethren , why wrong ye one another ? he that did his neighbour the wrong thrust him away , saying , who made thee a ruler and a judge over us ? but yet notwithstanding , happy is that man whom god shall make any wayes instrumentall to the bringing in of a holy and blessed peace into this distressed iland , though with the losse of his owne life . famous is the example of gregory nazianzen , who was bishop of constantinople , eminent for learning and piety : and yet when he saw a prevailing faction endevouring to choose another into his place , and that it would much disturbe the peace of the citie if he did not yeeld it up ; he brake out into this speech : absit , inquit , ut mei causâ aliqua simultas oriatur in dei sacerdotibus . si propter me est ista tempestas , tollite , & mittite me in mare , & desinet à vobis quassatio . god forbid that for my cause any difference should arise amongst the ministers of god : if this tempest be raised for my cause , take me , & throw me into the sea that so the tempest may cease . a sentence worthy to be written in letters of gold , and to be put in practise by every true hearted englishman . the like we read of codrus a heathen king , who for the love of his people exposed himselfe to death . and of curtius , and of three decii that devoted themselves to ruine for the safetie of their countrey . the booke of god tels us of moses that was willing to have his name blotted out of the booke of life : and of paul that was willing to be an anathema , that so god might be reconciled to the people of israel with whom he was displeased . but the greatest example of all is of our lord and blessed saviour , who emptied himselfe of his divinitie , and became a servant , and a curse , that he might become our peace-maker . much to this purpose is said in the insuing sermon , which is now made publique by your commands . something also is said to keep up your spirits from being over-dismaied at the consideration of these land-destroying divisions . great are the searchings and tremblings of heart , because of these divisions . but be not over-discouraged : it is gods prerogative to bring light out of darknesse , good out of evill , unitie out of division . he worketh by contrarie meanes as well as by unlikely meanes . he delivered jonah by a whale , and kept him ( as basil saith ) vivus in sepulchro . he raised joseph by casting him into prison ; he cured the blind man by clay and spittle . and i doubt not but he will bring a great deale of good at last out of our divisions . it is observable that simeon and levi , that at first were brethren in iniquitie , joyning together to destroy the shechemites , and for this cruel act , as a sutable punishment , were divided in jacob , and scattered in israel , gen. . . yet notwithstanding because afterwards levi was zealous for god against the worshippers of the golden calfe , and did appeare valiantly on gods side , exod. . . god did turne this curse into a blessing , deut. . . for levi was consecrated to teach jacob gods judgement , and israel his law , &c. and the simeonites , as ainsworth observes , were also teachers of the law in the synagogues of jacob ; and the levites in the schooles of the sonnes of israel . this story is written for our consolation . the time was when we dwelt in peace and unity , but then we combined against god and his children ; and for this cause as a just curse , god hath divided us one from another , to the utter ruine one of another . but yet notwithstanding , if you ( right honorable ) will goe on to shew your selves zealous for god and his cause , and to appeare vigorously and faithfully on his side ; god will turne our great curse into a great blessing . and as the dividing of the red sea was made by god a way and meanes to lead the people of israel over into canaan , and to destroy the egyptians : so god will make our divisions in this red sea of bloud , into which we are plunged , a way and meanes to a happy canaan of unitie and peace ; and to the utter ruine of our implacable adversaries . thus he did with the divisions of paul and barnabas , as this sermon relates unto you . onely be couragious for god , and in nothing be terrified at our differences , but make your peace with him , and he at lastwill make us at peace one with another : which is the earnest prayer of your honours spirituall servant , edmund calamy . a sermon preached to the right honourable house of lords on the monethly fast , december . . matth. . . latter end . every kingdome divided against it selfe , is brought to desolation : and every citie or house divided against it selfe , shall not stand . these words are a iust apology of iesus christ , against the uniust accusations and blasphemies of the scribes and pharisees . there was a man brought unto christ that was possessed with a devil that made him dumbe and blind ; and christ healed him , insomuch that the blind and dumbe , both spake and saw ; vers . . this great miracle had three different effects . the common people were astonished and said ; is this the sonne of david ? vers . . his own kindred thought him mad , and sought to lay hold on him , mark . . . but the pharisees when they heard of it , they blasphemously said ; this fellow doth not cast out devils , but by beelzebub the prince of devils . now christ to cleare himselfe from this cursed aspersion brings foure arguments , whereof this in my text is the first . interpreters take much paines to make out the strength of the argument . the summe of what they say is this . it is an argument drawn from the policy and subtiltie of the devill . for if satan cast out satan ( saith christ ) then satan should be divided against himselfe . and if satan should be divided against himselfe , then satan should seek his own ruine . for every kingdome divided against it selfe , is brought to desolation , and every citie or house divided against it selfe shall not stand . but it is incredible to thinke that satan should seeke the ruine of his own kingdome , which he indeavoureth by all means to promote and propagate . and therefore it is certaine , that i do not cast out devils by the power of beelzebub the prince of devils . this is christs first argument . but my purpose is to handle these words , only as they are an intire proposition in themselves ; as they are a generall maxime , written in great characters , not only in the booke of god , but in the booke of nature : and as they are a cleare looking-glasse , in which with sad countenances we may behold the woefull condition that england is in at this present . for these words are the words of iesus christ , who is truth it selfe . every kingdome divided against it selfe is brought to desolation , and every house or citie divided against it selfe cannot stand . and if every kingdome , then the kingdome of england , divided against it selfe is brought to desolation , and if every citie , then the citie of london divided against it selfe shall not stand . in the words themselves , we have two parts . first , christ doth here set down one great cause of the ruine of kingdomes , cities , and families : and that is division against it self . every kingdome divided against it selfe : the word in the greeke is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , which doth not signifie every little , small division , but such a division , that doth {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that doth cut a citie in pieces , such a division , when it is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , when it is intrinsecall to a kingdome , when it is got within the bowels of a kingdome , it is like unto the winde , which when it gets into the bowels of the earth , makes an earth-quake , and blows up towns , and houses , and kingdoms . so doe these divisions , whether ecclesiasticall , or politicall , whether about matters of religion , or of civill government , when they get within a kingdome , they blow up a kingdome , a citie , and a family . secondly , our saviour christ here sets out the greatnesse of the ruine that is caused by these divisions ; and that both intensively , and extensively . first , intensively , and that by two expressions . first , christ here sayes , such a divided kingdome is brought to desolation : the word in the greeke is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , it is made a wildernesse : though a kingdome in time of peace be as happy as a paradise , division will turne a paradise into a desolate wildernesse : and the words are in the present tense , to show the certaintie of it : it is brought , not it will be brought ; every kingdome divided against it selfe is brought , and it is brought to desolation . divisions doe not onely distemper a kingdome , and make a kingdome diseased , but they are deadly , and fatall to a kingdome , they are like unto a great and wide breach made in the banks to let in the sea , to swallow up a whole kingdome : they are like a breach made in the walles of a citie besieged , that lets in the enemy to take the citie . and then , secondly , christ sayes , such a divided citie shall not stand . christ doth not onely say , it shall reele , and totter ; but he saith expressely , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , it shall not stand : or as it is in the . mark . . it cannot stand ; it must tumble and fall . divisions in a house , are not only like unto the breaking of the windows , or the pulling down of the tyles , which may be done , and yet the house may be safe : but they are like unto a house all on fire , which must necessarily be burnt down if it be not quenched . or like unto a house , when the pillars of it are pull'd down , and the house it selfe falles with it . so is a kingdome , citie , or family , divided against it selfe , it cannot stand , sayes christ , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , mark . . . secondly , our saviour sets out the greatnesse of this ruine by the extension of it ; it is here said , every kingdome divided against it selfe . divisions in a kingdome , are like a sweeping plague , that devoures whole kingdoms , without any distinction . though a kingdome be never so well provided with men , armes , and ammunition , ships , walles , and bulwarks : yet notwithstanding , if divisions get into that citie , and kingdom , they are as a spreading gangrene , that will quickly infect the whole kingdome , and destroy it utterly , be it never so well fortified by sea or land . nay , though there should be a kingdome of saints ; yet notwithstanding , if differences and distractions get within that kingdome , they will prove like the worme that did eate up ionah's gourd in one night ; divisions in a very little space will swallow up , and devoure all the outward happinesse , even of a kingdome of saints . and not only so , but every citie , ( sayes christ ) and every house , though it be never so religious , so honourable , so rich a family ; yet notwithstanding if divisions get into that family , it cannot stand . these divisions , they are like unto the mors in olla , like unto the coloquintida , that spoiled all the pottage ; they are as a poysonfull herbe , that spoiles all the riches and goodnesse of a family : like unto eagles feathers , which ( as some say ) when they are mingled with other feathers , spoile all the feathers they are mingled withall . so doe divisions , contentions , and factions , when they get into a citie , or family , they spoile all the wealth , riches , and honours of that family : for so sayes our saviour christ ; every kingdome divided against it selfe is brought to desolation , and every citie , or house divided against it selfe shall not stand . the words thus explained , will afford us this doctrin . doct. that divisions , whether they be ecclesiasticall , or politicall , in kingdomes , cities , and families , are infallible causes of ruine to kingdomes , cities , and families . this doctrin is proved , not only by the history of the bible ; but by the history of all ages . the kingdome of england is sufficient alone to prove the truth of this doctrin . historians observe , that there was never any great mischiefe fell upon england , but the cause of it was , the divisions that were among them . when caesar first made inrode into britaino , he was called in by the faction of * mandubratius . and tacitus sayes , that all the victories that the romanes got , it was by the factions and divisions that were among the britaines . and afterwards , when the saxons made a conquest of britaine ; vortigern that had got the kingdome by a faction , to maintaine his party , sent for the saxons in , as some say , or at lest imployed them , when , in , to take his part , as others write . but all write , that by this meanes he destroyed himselfe , and the whole kingdome . and so likewise , when the normans made a conquest upon england ; they were invited hither by the factions that were in england . especially , by the faction that the earle goodwin made , and his sonne toustaine , as our historians doe relate . and since the norman conquest , i need not put you in minde of the great effusion of blood that was here in england , all the time of the barons warres : and of the miserable condition of england , when the house of yorke and the house of lancaster rose up one against another . and what shal we say to the desolate and bleeding condition of england , and ireland , at this present ? doth not our forlorne , and miserable estate sufficiently make good this doctrin : that divisions in church and state , are destructive to church and state ? but besides the kingdome of england , i might shew you , how the empire of grecia as long as alexander kept it in unitie flourished in great prosperitie , but after the death of alexander , it was divided into foure parts , and these foure governours destroyed one another by divisions . i might also instance in the empire of rome , assoone as ever it was divided by constantine into two parts , from that very time ( as sigonius relates ) the romane empire , which before that was very strong and potent , began first secretly to grow weake , and afterwards to decay , till at last it came to utter destruction . i might instance also in the people of the iewes , as long as they were as a citie united within it selfe in davids and solomons time , so long they did exceedingly flourish ; but as soone as ever they were divided into ten tribes , and two tribes , they presently began to warre one against another , and to open the doore to foraine invasions ; till at last they were all of them utterly ruinated . famous is the story of the citie of ierusalem , when it was besieged by titus vespasian , iosephus tels us it had three mightie factions in the very bowels of it : the chiefe of which factions were iehochanan , eleazar , schimeon . and that these three factions did kill more then the enemie himselfe ; and were the cause of the taking of that famous citie . the like is reported of the famous citie of constantinople , when it was taken by the turks , &c. but let us a little consider the reasons why divisions are so fatall and destructive to kingdomes , cities , and families . the first reason is , because that these intestine divisions they destroy all those things that are as walls , and bulwarks to preserve a nation from ruine . as for example : first , divisions destroy the peace of a kingdome : now there is nothing that preserves a kingdome more then peace : and therefore the hebrewes comprehended all blessings under the name of peace . heaven it selfe , it is nothing but tranquillitas pacis ; what is god , but the god of peace ? and what is christ , but the prince of peace ? and therefore , as * that cardinall made his embleme , a beach tree , with this motto : take off the top and it is the ruine of all the rest : for such is the nature of the beach tree , that if you cut the top off , the tree presently withers : such may be the motto of every kingdome : take off the top , and it is the ruine of all the rest : take away peace , and you destroy a kingdome . the truth is , there is no outward blessing , is a reall blessing where peace is wanting : your estates , your honors , are no blessings , if you have not peace to enjoy them . and therefore , as the artificer carved his owne name into the buckler of minerva so exactly , that whosoever should undertake to pick out his name , must necessarily spoile the buckler : so it is with peace , peace is so woven into the prosperitie of a kingdome , that whatsoever destroyes peace , must needs destroy a kingdome . now division takes away peace , and therefore division ruines a kingdome . and then secondly , division takes away the vnitie of a kingdome ; now vnitie is the great preserver of church and state : it is the great preserver of all bodies , both naturall , politicall , artificiall , and theologicall . what is that , that keeps the fabrick of heaven from dissolving into pieces , but the vnitie and the agreement of the discordant elements ? what keeps this great fabrick here from falling , but the vnion and conjunction of the parts of it ? stones ioyned together make a building , but stones uncemented , destroy and overthrow a building : boards ioyned together make a ship , disioytned make a ship-wrack . what keeps the body of a man in health , but the just proportion and harmonie of every part ? the members of the body divided from the head are presently destroyed : the branches divided from the vine receive no joyce , no sap , no vertue : every thing is preserved by unitie and concord . lords and commons united save a kingdome : divided make shipwrack of a kingdome . the church of christ at first , when the bloud of christ was yet warme , was at unitie within it selfe , and all with one accord praysing and serving god , and then it flourished exceedingly . the church was then like a pure virgin attended with all the graces of gods spirit as with so many hand-maides . but afterwards when it fell into divisions it lost her virginity , and all her hand-maids forsook her . for this is true both in philosophy and in divinitie , omne divisible est corruptibile : whatsoever is divisible , is corruptible . and the like i say of concord , love and friendship , which are nothing else but unitie in affection : these are the glew that soders ; these are the nerves and sinewes that joyne a kingdome together . and therefore the apostle saith , above all things put on love which is the bond of perfection : it is a bond to joyne kingdomes , and cities , and families together . and therefore , whatsoever breakes this bond of kingdomes in pieces , must needs devoure and destroy kingdomes . but divisions doe this . for they are like a caterpiller to devoure all peace , unitie , love , friendship , and concord , which are the great supporters of kingdomes . they are like unto the great plague of the locusts that devoured all the greene things in the land of egypt : there is nothing that is good in a nation , nothing that is greene and flourishing in a nation , but division and contention will destroy it . and therefore divisions must needs be destructive to kingdomes . this is the first reason : and then secondly : as divisions take away all those things that are the buttresses to uphold a nation : so on the other side , they open a doore to all kinds of misery ; they bring in myriads of evils into a kingdome : they are like unto pandora's box , which when it was once opened , out flied all kind of sicknesses and diseases : as for example : first , where intestine divisions dwell , there dwels strife and envie ; and where envie and strife is , there is confusion and every evill worke , i am . . . secondly , divisions open a doore to let in a foraine enemie : and it is a free and miraculous mercy that god hath kept out the french , and the spaniard , and the danes from invading england in these times of our divisions . and then thirdly , divisions weaken a kingdome , and make it unable to resist a foraine enemie , if he should come in : for divide a citie , and so many divisions you make , so much you take away from the strength of that citie . let five men joyne together to beare a burden , and they will beare it with ease : but if three of those five shall divide from the other two , the burden will sinke the other two . vis vnita fortior , strength conjoyned is a great deale stronger ; strength divided is weakened ; counsels divided are weakened ; men divided are weakened : but then fourthly , and especially , divisions set a kingdome against it selfe , so sayes my text , every kingdome divided against it selfe : divisions make the father to fight against the child ▪ and the child to fight against the father : divisions set the husband against the wife , and the wife against the husband : divisions make us to be our own hangmen , our owne executioners . divisions make us viper like to eat out the bowels one of another . divisions make us to sheath our swords in our owne bowels . as god caused the midianites to destroy one another : so these divisions set a kingdome against it selfe ; they set a man against himselfe ; a citie against it selfe , to destroy it selfe , : in a word , that i may expresse all misery in one phrase : divisions bring in civill warres , which of all warres are most uncivill . there are three iron whips with which god doth whip man-kind , when it grows monstrous in iniquitie ; the plague , sword and famine , which tertullian cals tonsur as insolentis humani generis , the loppings and prunings of man-kind when they grow ranke in iniquitie . of those three plagues warre is the greatest . and therefore when the prophet put david to his trilemma , he chose the plague , rather then the sword , or famine , and beseecheth with great earnestnesse : let me not fall into the hands of man . of all judgements warre is the greatest , which for the most part is attended with famine and plague . but of all warres no warre so mischievous as civill warre , for these reasons . first , because there is no warre so unnatur all as civill warre : for in civill warre , the father fights against the child , and the friend against the friend , and the brother against the brother . secondly , there is no warre so cruell as civill warre : and therefore you shall observe , that the hagarens , and the ammonites , and the moabites , and the edomites , were the greatest enemies that the people of israel had : now these were of the kindred of the people of israel ; the hatred of brethren is most bitter when they fall out : you have an example of this in the . of iudg. . the people of israel , they went to fight against their brethren , and when they had conquered them they did not onely kill every man they met withall , but they kild every beast that they met withall , and they kild every thing that came to hand : it is a strange expression , to shew the crueltie of civill warre : and you know how the bloud-thirstie cavalieres , at oxford , doe hunger and thirst to drinke cups full of the bloud of the round-heads ( as they call us ) . thirdly , these warres , they are most treacherous ; no warre so treacherous as civill warre , for there will alwaies be false brethren , that will labour to betray their brethren into the hands of the enemie , for it is a warre amongst brethren ; and these are the times wherein we may take up the complaint of ieremy , ier. . , , , . and wherein we had need follow the example of mica . . , . fourthly , and lastly , these wars of all wars are most uncomfortable . and therefore you shall read that when the people of israel had overcome the beniamites , in stead of rejoycing for the victory , they all fell a weeping because of their brethren that were slaine , iudg. . . these are the reasons why civill warres are the worst of wars . but of all civill wars that ever were , none so wicked , none so mischievous as the civill warres of england . of all the arrowes that are in the quiver of gods iudgements , there is no arrow so sharpe , so keene , as this arrow that god now shoots out against england . for there is a generation of men risen up amongst us that fight against the parliament whom they themselves did choose , and intrust with their lawes , liberties , and religion . men that fight against a reformation : that fight themselves into popery , slavery , and beggery . that joyne with the papists of england , and popish rebels of ireland to fight ( as they say ) for the protestant religion . that fight for their liberties against the parliament , the great and onely conservator of their liberties . that call god to record that they intend nothing but the preservation of the protestant religion , and of the liberties of the people , and yet endeavour by all treachery and bloudy ways to subvert religion and liberties . that god should suffer such multitudes of men to be so farre drunke with error , and to be so farre blinded with prejudice , this is a judgement of all judgements most superlative . now all these are the fruits of our divisions , and therefore certainely , iesus christ might well say , or if christ had not said it , our owne experience would have taught us the truth of this text : every kingdome divided against it selfe is brought to desolation , and every house , and every citie divided against it selfe shall not stand . this is all that i shall say for the explication of the doctrine . but now ( through the blessing of god ) i shall come to the application . if intrinsecall divisions he so destructive to the kingdome , let us weepe and mourne before the lord this day , at the consideration of the sad condition that england is in at this present . this day is a day of weeping and mourning : and i shall present a subject before you that will move you to teares if there be any bowels of compassion in you , and to say as ieremie . . let mine eyes runne downe with teares night and day , and let them not cease , for the virgin daughter of my people is broken with a great breach , with a very grievous blow . and if a tender and dutifull child cannot without great mourning and lamentation behold his mother rent and torne in pieces by wild beasts ; surely it will be most unnaturall in us who are the sonnes and daughters of england , to heare of the divisions and distractions of england with dry eyes , and hard hearts . it is reported of cato , that from the time that the civill warres began in rome betweene caesar and pompey , he was never seene to laugh , or to wash his face , or to shave his beard , or cut his haire . this example will rise up in judgement against many of us who are so unaffected and insensible of the great and unexpressible calamities of poore england , once a pleasant paradise , but now a howling wildernesse . if divisions destroy a nation , it is a miracle of mercy that england is yet a nation : for our divisions are multiplied exceedingly . our times run all upon divisions , and subdivisions . we may say of england , as austin of africa , that it is divided in minutula frustula , it is crumbled into very little little pieces . i will bring them all into two heads . . our divisions from god . . our divisions one from another . first , our divisions from god , by our most grievous sinnes and iniquities . for as smoake driveth bees out of their hives , so doth sinne drive god away from a kingdome . and there is nothing that makes god forsake a kingdome but sinne . isaiah . . your iniquities have separated between you and your god , and your sins have hid his face from you , that he will not heare . now there is no nation under heaven , that hath divided it selfe more from god by sinne then england hath . there was a time when the parliament of england made a whip with six strings to whip many godly people to death . this was in h. the eighths dayes . there was a time when the parliament of england did solemnly upon their knees abiure the gospell , and desire reconciliation with antichrist . this was done in q. maries dayes ; after which followed the bloody persecution by the lawes then established . and though these lawes were afterwards repealed ▪ yet how often have we apostatized from god since that time ? and even at this very day , though there be much talke of reformation ; yet ( alas ) there was never lesse practise of reformation . our churches indeed are reformed , but our hearts and lives are no whit reformed . our high altars are taken down , but our high mindes are not taken down . the worship of god is purer , but the worshippers are as impure as ever . we have no bowing to the name of jesus , no bowing to altars , images , and crucifixes . there is lesse knee-idolatry ; but i feare me , we have as much heart-idolatry as ever , as much covetousnesse , as much trusting to an arme of flesh as ever . and though our idolatry be lesse , yet adulteries , and fornications , were never more , i cannot say punished , but i must rather say , never more committed , and never lesse punished . doe not men boast of their adulteries , and yet escape unpunished ? it is a mercy of god , that scandalous ministers are thrust out of their livings . but i beseech you tell me , is there a law to punish a scandalous minister ; and is there no law to punish a scandalous gentleman , and a lord also if he grow scandalous ? shall the cheap-side crosse be taken down ( wherein you have done well ; ) and shall your cheapside iniquities , your cheapside adulteries yet remaine ? it is a mercy , that we are freed from the tyranny and crueltie of the high commission , and star-chamber . but i am sure , there is as much complaint ; i doe not say , as iust complaint ; but as much complaint , of oppression and iniustice in the parliament-committees in the counties ; as ever there was of the star-chamber , or high commission . we live in times wherein there was never more iudging of others , and never lesse iudging of our selves . we live in the sadest dayes that ever england saw , and yet what aboundance of pride is there in apparell ? what lustfull fashions , even in these bloody dayes ? what securitie in sinne , even whilest the ship of the kingdome is sinking ? what deadnesse of heart ? what coldnesse and formality in gods worship ? what unthankfulnesse ? what unfruitfulnesse , &c. indeed here is much fasting , but little weeping . never more murmuring , more censuring , & never lesse reforming , then in these dayes , even in these dayes of reformation . and shall we not weep bitterly before the lord this day for these sinnes ? these are the sinnes that divide a nation from god . and if god once forsake a nation , it is left in a desperate condition . for as the trojans when they lost their palladium , were presently vanquished : so when a nation hath lost gods favour , it sinks into ruine irrecoverably and presently . but secondly , let us mourne this day also for our divisions one from another ; and first for our state-divisions , and then for our church-divisions . first , let us mourne for the divisions of the commonwealth . is it not a sad thing to see the head rent from the members ; and that that head that should be a preserver of the body , is now , by ill counsell , a destroyer of his body ? that , that head , that should be like a head of gold , is now , through ill counsell , made a head of iron , to crush its own body in pieces ? oh! let us mourne for this , this day . and then let us mourne for the rent that is amongst the members . is if not a sad thing to see the members rent and torne one from the other ? nobleman against nobleman , gentleman against gentleman , citizen against citizen ; father against sonne , and sonne against father , &c. and that which england never saw till this day , a pretended oxford parliament , against a true westminster parliament ? and especially , let us bemoane , and bewaile the divisions that are amongst our selves here at home : that we that are all ingaged in the same cause , and in the same covenant , and that are under the same condemnation , under the unjust charge of rebellion , that there should be such differences , and such divisions amongst us , even amongst us , whose heart doth not bleed to thinke of it ? that though hannibal ad portas , yet the senators of rome should be at difference amongst themselves ; the lords should divide from the commons , and the commons from the lords , whilest the enemy is seeking to destroy both lords and commons ? but above all , let us bemoane the divisions that are in the church about matters of religion . for * constantine saith well , that the dissentions of the church are more terrible and more pernicious then any civill warre . and these are exceedingly increased amongst us especially in the famous citie of london . one saith , i am of paul ; another saith , i am of apollos ; a third saith , i am of cephas . some are antinomians , that is , patrons of free vice , under the maske of free grace . some are anabaptists , that say , that the condition of an infant of a beleeving parent , is as sad and miserable as the condition of an infant of a turke or infidell : and one of them was not ashamed to say , that it is as lawfull to baptize a cat or a dog , as an infant of a christian parent . some are brownists , that say , that all our ministery is antichristian , and our worship , and churches antichristian . some are of no church at all , beleeving all churches to be falsely constituted , and therefore refuse to joyne with any church in the worship of god , and waite till god raise up apostles to plant new churches . some beleeve that the soule dyeth with the body , and that both shall rise againe at the last day . others begin to say , they beleeve that the soule is mortall , as well as the body , and that there is no resurrection , neither of soule or body . some plead for an illimited toleration of all religions . it would see me a wonder , if i should reckon how many separated congregations , or rather segregations there are in the citie : what churches against churches , &c. but i forbeare . the lord knows , that i mention these things with a sad heart , and that i doe not hereby intend to exasperate your lordships against the persons that hold these opinions , above what the word of god doth clearely require at your hands ; or to uncover any nakednesse of our deare mother that was unknown before , but onely to present before you our sad and miserable condition ; that thereby you may be quickned unto prayer , stirred up to humiliation in a day of fasting and weeping , and also provoked to use all scripture helps for the suppression of these distractions . for great and wonderfull are the mischiefes that proceed from these church-divisions ▪ give me leave to mention a few of them . first , hereby gods name is exceedingly dishonoured , and the true religion ill spoken of . iulian that cursed apostate , railes against the christians in his dayes , and saith of them , that they lived together as so many dogs and beares , rending and tearing one another : and addes , who then would be so simple as to become a christian ? the very heathen in their interludes scoffed at the divisions that were amongst the christians ( as the histories of the primitive times informe us ) to the great disgrace of christian religion . and i wish this might not also be verified of our dayes . secondly , hereby the happy reformation that all good people expect and long for , is much hindered . for as the building of babel was hindered by the confusion of tongues , so is the building of sion also . for every man drives his owne private way of reformation , and strives to hinder all other wayes that are opposite to his way . it is with us in england , as it was with the suiters in plutarch , who because they could not all of them obtaine the virgin they sued for , agreed to cut her in pieces , and every one to take a bit of her . we are all suiters for a reformation , and because we cannot get such a one as may please every man , hence come our divisions ; by which what doe we else but agree together to cut the kingdome in pieces and every man to take his morsell ? epiphanius tels a sad story of meletius , and peter bishop of alexandria , both confessors of the christian faith , both of them condemned ad metalla , for their profession , who upon a small difference fell into so great a schisme , that they drew a partition betweene each other in the prison , and would not held communion in the same worship of christ , for which notwithstanding they joyntly suffered ; which dissention of theirs did cause such a rent and sect in the members of the church , that it did more hurt then any persecution of the enemie . iust so is our condition : for we are here in london , and in the associated counties , shut up as in a prison , ( for we dare not travell beyond our line ) and whilest we are in prison we draw partitions one from another , and separate from one another , whilest we are all suffering for the same cause . and this hinders reformation more then all that the enemie can doe to obstruct it . thirdly , hereby the good cause we fight for is exceedingly disparaged . for doe we not heare the enemie boasting and saying , these are the men that cry downe prelacy : you see they can agree in nothing but in anarchie and confusion ! are there not many that beginne to grow weary of these warres , and cold in the prosecution of the parliaments most just cause , even for this very reason , because they know not amongst so many religions ( as they call them ) for what religion they fight ? fourthly , hereby the enemie is much encouraged . his hope of conquering is built upon our divisions . and therefore he doth as medea did , who when she fled a way with iason , and was pursued by her father , tooke her brother absyrtus , and cut him in pieces , and scattered him in the way that she fled in , that so her father might be busied in taking up the scattered pieces of his sonne , and she in the meane time flie securely a way . even so doe our enemies labour to cut us in pieces by our divisions , ( for the enemie hath a chiefe stroke in our divisions ) that they in the meane time may securely study our ruine , while we are gathering up our divided parties . fifthly , hereby the hearts of people are mightily distracted , many are hindered from conversion , and even the godly themselves have lost much of the power of godlinesse in their lives . i say , the hearts of people mightily disturbed , while one minister preacheth one thing as a truth of the gospel , and another minister preacheth the quite contrary with as much confidence as the former . and thus , as optatus saith , inter licet tuum & non licet meum nutant & remigant animae christianorum . while one minister saith i , and another saith no , the common peoples minds are mightily distracted . and many also are hindred from conversion . for who will venture into a ship that is tossed with contrary waves , and ready to sinke ? and even the godly themselves are much decayed in the studie and practise of faith and repentance , and of the power of godlinesse . for all their time is so much taken up with unnecessary disputations , as that they have little leasure to repent , and to study to increase in holinesse . inter disputandum religio amittitur . the truth is , here is so much dispute about the government of christ in our churches , as that there is little of christs government in our hearts or houses . so much dispute about the gathering of churches , as that there were never fewer gathered really to the church then in these our dayes . sixthly , by these divisions godly ministers are mightily discouraged : in so much as there are many that grow weary of their standings in gods church , and beginne to thinke of leaving their places , and of going to live in private , and to shut themselves up in their studies , ( as luther was once counselled ) and to cry , domine miserere nostri . seventhly , hereby a doore is opened to all kind of atheisme : for doe not our profane men begin to say , we know not of what religion to be , and therefore we will be of no religion . if we hold of such , others will condemne us , and if we hold of them , others also will condemne us ; and therefore we will rather stand neuters , and professe no religion at all ? eighthly , hereby god is necessitated to prolong our warres : for all the bloud-thirstie cavaliers are but as so many shepherds dogs sent out by god to gather his sheep together . gods people are now as sheepe scattered one from the other to the reproach of religion , and dishonour of god ; and god hath sent the enemy as his dog to call them all together , and till this be fully accomplished these dogs will not be taken off . ninthly , these divisions open a wide doore to the utter ruine and destruction of the kingdome . for they bring in deadly hatred above the hatred that is caused by civill dissentions ; even such a hatred that bursteth asunder the very bonds of nature it selfe , as christ foretels , ioh. . . they shall kill you , and thinke they doe therein god good service . what abominable hatred was there between the iew and the samaritane ; in so much as that the woman of samaria wondered that christ would aske a little water of her that was a samaritane ? from this hatred followeth , excommunications , anathematizations , &c. and from thence to fire and fagot , and to as exquisite torments as the wit or malice of men could invent . witnesse the tenne persecutions . witnesse the spanish inquisition . witnesse the parisian massacre of the protestants upon bartholomew eve . witnesse queene maries bloudy dayes . witnesse the divisions of the greeke churches betweene the {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and divers others of that kind ( pezelius reckons tenne ) which divisions first brought in the saracens , and afterwards the turks , who are the great scourge of christendome to this day . these and many more are the mischiefes that arise from our divisions about matters of religion . and therefore if there be any bowels of compassion in us towards a poore bleeding , dying kingdome , let us weepe before the lord this day ; and wish that our heads were fountaines , that we might mourne continually for the virgin daughter of england . let there be great thoughts of heart for the divisions of our reuben . it is reported of certaine young debauched gentlemen that were swaggering in a taverne in the market-place , while the citie wherein they dwelt was in great calamitie ; and one of them putting his head crowned with a garland out of the window , was espied by the magistrates of that citie , whom when they saw , they caused him to be beheaded because he was so insensible of the publique danger . a famous story for our times . the lord make us more apprehensive of englands miseries in a spirituall way . and let us also this day admire the mercy of god that we are not yet consumed notwithstanding our manifold divisions . and let us expect certaine ruine and destruction , if these divisions continue . the word of christ must be true . a kingdome divided against it selfe cannot stand . england is tottering , and it will fall if these divisions last ; and the fall thereof will be great . and therefore let us prepare for desolation , and provide an arke of safety for our selves by faith in iesus christ : a kingdome that cannot be shaken ; an house made without hands , eternall in the heavens . if divisions be so destructive to kingdomes , cities , and families ? this reproveth those that are the authours and fomenters of these divisions that are now amongst us . these are the incendiaries of england . if he that sets one house on fire deserveth hanging , much more they that set a whole kingdome on fire . if he that murders one man must be put to death , much more he that murders three kingdomes . marke them ( saith the apostle , rom. . . ) that cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them . avoid them as the greatest enemies of england . these are like the salamander that cannot live but in the fire of contention . these are of a iesuiticall spirit . and no doubt the heads , and hands of the iesuits are in all our divisions . there are seven things , saith solomon , prov. . . which are an abomination to the lord : and the seventh and last , and not the least , is he that soweth discord among brethren ; but much more he that soweth discord amongst three kingdomes . and if it was a signe of the false mother to desire to have the child divided ; much more is it a signe of an unnaturall and cruell child to endevour to divide his mother in pieces . more particularly here are two sorts to be reproved . first , such as sow divisions betweene the king and his people . that labour to keepe up and to increase the wals of partition betweene them . these are the sanballats and tobiah's that tell the king that the parliament are rebels , that they seeke his life , and would uncrowne him and his posteritie , and bring in anarchy and confusion . these are they that tell the king , ( as rhehum the chancellour , and shimshai the scribe wrote to artaxerxes , concerning ierusalem , ezra . . ) that the citie of london is a rebellious and bad citie ; hurtfull to kings , and hath alwaies moved sedition , &c. these give the king this motto , divide et impera . but these are without my reach , and therefore i shall speake no more of them . secondly , and especially such incendiaries and fire-brands that kindle the fire of contention amongst our selves at home : and these are of two sorts . first , such as are absolutely false-hearted , and have made their peace at oxford ; and are here at westminster onely to cast in bones of contention , to divide our counsels , and to worke factions amongst us . these are men hardened in sinne , and there is little hope of reclaiming them . these build their houses upon the bloud of three kingdomes . these are the iudasses of england ; and it were just with god to give them the portion of iudas . secondly , such as are discontented , though not false-hearted ; and through discontent and dislike of the proceedings of parliament do much hurt , and create many factions amongst us . these discontented persons are like pieces of soft wax , ready to carry any impression that the adverse party shall stampe upon them . these are of three sorts . first , such as are discontented out of pride and covetousnesse , because they cannot get those places of profit and honour which they expect ; and because they have not that credit and repute amongst the people that others have : hereupon they come to dislike the publique proceedings and to make parties and factions . there were many such in the primitive church that turned heretiques , because they could not obtaine the preferment they stood for . these men seeke themselves and not the publique . these are not common-wealths men , but private-wealths men : these seeke their owne belly , and because they cannot have a cabbin so richly furnished as they desire , therefore they endevour to drown the ship wherein their cabbin is . these are like those that will set an house on fire to rost an ●gge . marke what the apostle saith of these , rom. . . they that are such serve not our lord iesus christ , but their owne belly ; and by good words and faire speeches deceive the hearts of the simple . a second sort are such as are discontented out of a blind zeale ; such as differ from us in opinion , and because they begin to perceive , that if matters of religion were once settled , their wayes of worshipping god would be discountenanced , therefore they labour to put all things into confusion , and to hinder a settlement as much as they can ; that so in the meane time , their numbers may increase . for as toads and serpents grow in darke and dirtie sellars , so doe sects , errors , and heresies grow in times of distraction and confusion . these are the men that desire to fish in troubled waters , because they can catch most fish in troubled waters . these are like unto sanballat and tobiah , &c. who foresaw that if the temple were once rebuilt , that then their way of worship upon mount gerizin would be contemned , and therefore they laboured to cast bitter aspersions upon the workmen , they laid heavy things to their charge , and used all kinds of policy to obstruct the temple-worke they had in hand . iust so doe these men cast bitter aspersions upon the assembly of ministers , and upon every parliament man that opposeth their way , and labour by all meanes to hinder their proceedings ; because they foresee that if by their advise , matters of religion were once established , their wayes and opinions would be presently disgusted . it is very observable , that all the severall sects amongst us , though they differ one from another , yet they all agree together in their opposition against the assembly of ministers as their greatest enemies . iust as we read in the psalme , of ten nations , differing one from another in religion , place and customes , and yet all of them confederating against the people of god . nicephorus telles us , that the meletiani and ariani , did at first much disagree , not onely in opinions , but in affections ; but afterwards when they saw the orthodoxe party increase so mightily , as that it was likely to swallow both of them up , they joyned together in a firme league to oppose the orthodox party ( though still differing one from the other ) insomuch that in processe of time , the meletiani were called ariani , and the ariani , meletiani . so also in africa . the rogatianist , maximinianists , and donatists joyned together as sampsons foxes not in one opinion , but in a league of friendship for a while , that they might make up the greater number against the orthodox party . and is not this the practise of our times ? doe not anabaptists , brownists , antinomians , agree together in opposing the assembly of ministers , and in independency from all superiour ecclesiasticall government , without the bounds of a particular congregation . a third sort are such as are discontented , and thereupon disturbe our peace by way of revenge ; that lye under iealousies and suspitions ( whether just or unjust i dispute not ) and cannot regaine their credit , and therefore labour to cast a blame upon all others , and bring as many as they can into the same condemnation with themselves . iust like the foxe in the fable , that had his taile cut off , and therefore perswaded all other foxes to cut off their tailes , telling them it was an uncomely thing for a foxe to have a taile . even so doe these men . because they lye under suspicion themselves , therefore they would perswade others also , that they are under the like suspition , that thereby they might make them discontented , as they themselves are . and thereby the building of the temple is much hindred , publique affaires disturbed , and the poore ship of england ready to sinke under the burden . now all these sorts of men are sharply to be reproved , every man according to his degree of guiltinesse . these are the devils agents . for it is the proper worke of the devill to divide god from men , men from god , and one man from another . and as it is a worke of the devill , so it will bring us to the devill , if we repent not of it . if divisions be so fatall and destructure to kingdomes , cities , and families . oh let us all be intreated according to our severall places , to contribute what help we can possible to the healing of our divisions , and to the bringing in peace , love , vnitie and concord amongst us . oh that god would make me his instrument this day , to raise up your hearts to the obedience of this duty . first , let us labour to be at peace with the kings maiesty , as farre as is possible , and may be obtained , salvâ conscientiâ . let us not onely pray for peace , but follow after peace , and if it flies from us , let us pursue it . i remember what i have read of calvin , that he should say ; that he would willingly travell over many seas , to see one vniforme draught of religion , wherein all protestants might agree . and who would not willingly sacrifice up his life to the fire to see king and parliament throughly agreed ? to see a holy , safe , and well-grounded peace made ? i say , a holy well ▪ grounded peace . for there are some amongst us , that are like the gadarens , that preferre their hogs before christ and his cause ; that wish more for the settlement of their trading , then of their religion . these are swines not christians . there are others as bad that desire a peace upon any termes , though with the losse of libertie and religion . iust like the israelites , that would needs have quailes . but while the meat was yet in their mouthes , the wrath of god came upon them . he that desires peace without respect to religion , the plague of god will goe along with that peace . there is a double peace . first , a treacherous peace . such as shall betray us into popery , tyranny , and slavery ; such as was made with the protestants in france , a london ▪ massacring peace . such as the israelites made with the cananites , which was a perpetuall thorne and snare unto them . such as ahab made with benhadad . this is a land-devouring , and a religion-destroying peace . this is to betray christ as iudas did with a kisse of peace . secondly , a holy , safe , well-grounded peace . and cursed is the man that is an enemy to such a peace . my prayer is ; that god would make our king a melchisedeck , who was king of righteousnesse , and king of peace . that righteousnesse and peace may kisse each other in his dayes . that this may be added upon the kings coine . henricus rosas , regna jacobus , populum carolus . and here let me crave leave humbly to beseech your lordships , that in this treatie that is shortly to begin , you would make religion your iewell , and peace as your golden ring , on which it may be put . to make peace your boxe of alablaster . and reformation the precious oyntment within it . to make peace as the gold , and religion as the temple that sanctifieth the gold . happy is the people that is in such a case . happy england if once it comes to sing the angels song . glory be to god on high , in earth peace . and yet let me forewarne you also , not to trust too much to treaties , and overtures of peace , david had a sonne whose name he called absolom , which in hebrew signifieth a father of peace ▪ david promised to himselfe great felicitie in that childe . but he proved a father of warre and misery to his father . say not . this treatie will be an absolom , for feare it prove an absolom in a contrary sense as absolom himselfe did . it is very fatall , that in the midst of our treaties , there have alwayes been great plots to destroy us , as we see verified at this day . secondly , but that which i especially ayme at this day , is to perswade you that are here present , to be at peace and unitie amongst your selves , and to ioyne together against the common enemy . but most of all you that are earles , lords , and gentlemen of ranke and qualitie . for the greater the persons are that disagree , the more is the hurt that is done by their disagreement . as in a house , if the master and mistresse agree the house will stand and subsist , though the inferiour servants fall out one with the other . so if the lords and commons unite together the citie and kingdome will stand , though there should be many divisions amongst the common people . and therefore it is your dutie above others ( right honourable ) to follow after those things that make for * peace , vnitie and concord , to be ambitious of peace as you are exhorted , thess. . . to speake the truth in love . * eph. . . and to love in the truth . * epist. of iohn vers . now that your hearts and affections may be fully wrought up , to make it your chiefe designe to practise this dutie . i shall use these ensuing motives and arguments . first , consider how pathetically and emphatically , the holy apostle perswades all gods people to the practise of this dutie . i will name but two texts . cor. . . now i beseech you brethren , by the name of our lord iesus christ , that ye all speake the same thing , and that there be no divisions among you , but that ye be perfectly ioyned together in the same minde , and in the same iudgement , phil. . , . if there be therefore any consolation in christ , if any comfort of love , if any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowels and mercies ; fulfill ye my ioy , that ye be like minded having the same love , being of one accord , of one minde , &c. secondly , consider what excellent arguments the apostle useth , ephes. . , , , . endevouring to keepe the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace . there is one body , and one spirit , even as you are called in one hope of your calling . one lord , one faith , one baptisme , one god , &c. these are omnipotent arguments . if one god , and one lord , and one body , &c. shall not his children be one ? and afterwards , vers. , , . the apostle tels us . that when christ ascended up to heaven , he gave some to be apostles , some prophets , some evangelists , some pastors , and teachers for the perfecting of the saints , &c. till we all come to the unitie of the faith , &c. christs intendment in appointing a ministery in his church was not onely to bring his people to veritie , but also to the unitie of the faith . this is the great worke of a minister , to bring his people to unitie as well as veritie . thirdly , consider what a horrible sinne it is to divide one from another , and to be at hatred and variance one with another . this is a worke of the flesh , gal. . , , . where it is observable that the apostle reckons up seven synonymicall expressions to set out the greatnesse of this sin . the works of the flesh are hatred , variance , emulation , wrath , strife , sedition , envyings ; of the which i told you before , as i have also told you in time past , that they which doe such things shall not inherit the kingdome of god . this sin alone unrepented on will shut a man out of heaven . therefore it is said , revel. . . without are dogs . this sinne alone makes thee unsit to come to the sacrament , mat. . . this sinne alone makes god abhorre our fasting-dayes , isa. . . behold , ye fast for strife and debate , &c. this sinne alone turnes our prayers into curses : for when thou prayest unto god , forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive them that trespas against us , if thou beest in malice and hatred with thy brother , thou prayest unto god not to forgive thee thy trespasses . notable is the speech of cyprian , peius est seindere ecclesiam quam sacrificare idolo , schisme in the church is a greater sinne then idolatry . austin saith , it is a greater sinne then heresie . and this ( saith he ) god himselfe declared when he punished corah and his company that were schismatiques with a greater punishment then ever he punished idolaters or heretiques : quis iam dubitaverit hoc esse scelaratius commissum , quod est gravius vindicatum . fourthly , consider the wofull mischiefes that are brought into church and state by these our divisions . if all the iesuites in the christian world ; if all the devils in hell should joyne together , to devise a way to undoe the parliament , and the good cause they manage , they could not invent a readier way then by dividing you one from another at this time . this makes you to fight against your selves , to murder your selves ; your cause , your religion , and to murder all that adhere unto you . hereby god is dishonoured , reformation hindered , religion discredited , the good cause disliked , the enemie strengthened ; you are weakened , your counsels disturbed , the warre prolonged , the power of godlinesse abated , &c. as hath beene formerly mentioned . hereby we are all tantum non , destroyed , and destroyed we must be if our breaches be not made up . for if we bite and devoure one another , we shall be consumed one of another , gal. . . famous is the story of menenius agrippa , who , when the people of rome had divided themselver from the senate of rome , came to the people and told them an apologue of the members of the body , how they did once conspire together against the belly , because that the belly did live idlely , & devoure all the meat that the hands did work forand feet walke for , &c. and therefore they agreed together to starve the belly . the hands refused to work for to feed it ; the mouth refused to take in meat ; the feet refused to goe to fetch it , &c. but within a very little while the members of the body saw their errour : for the feet began to grow feeble and unable to walke ; the hands grew weake ; the whole man sick : and then they understood that the belly was not idle ; but that it conveyed the nourishment it received to every part of the body : and hereupon they all agreed to joyne together to provide for the belly as well as for themselves . this fable reconciled the people , and senators of rome . this fable teacheth us , that divisions in the body naturall , and so also in the body politique , are ruinating and destructive to the body . and the truth is , all the hope the enemy hath , is in our divisions ; herein he boasteth , and glorieth : there is nothing that strengthens their designes at oxford so much : nothing that puts so much courage and resolution into the hearts of our adversaries , as the divisions that are amongst us . this is the argument melancton used to perswade the divided protestants of his time to peace and unity ; and he illustrateth his argument by a notable parable of the wolves and the dogs , who were marching on-ward to fight one against another . the wolves that they might know the strength of their adversary , sent forth a master-wolfe as their scout : the scout returnes and tels the wolves , that indeed the dogs were more in number , but yet they should not be discouraged : for he observed , that the dogs were not one like another ; a few mastives there were ; but the most were little curres , which could onely barke but not bite , and would be afraid of their owne shadow . another thing also he observed which should much encourage them , and that was , that the dogs did march as if they were more offended with themselves then with us ; not keeping their ranks , but grinning , and snarling , and biting ; and sometimes tearing each other , as if they would save us a labour . and therefore let us march on resolutely , for our enemies , are their owne enemies ; enemies to themselves , and their owne peace ; they bite and devoure each other , and therefore we shall certainly devoure them . i need not make any application of this parable . there is nothing that more heartens our enemies , and disheartens our friends , then our divisions . fourthly , consider the great happinesse that would accrue to church and state , if we were united together against the common enemy . if all the saints upon earth , and angels in heaven should study to find out a way to save england from ruine , they could not find out a readier way , then by uniting us together at this time . england is an iland divided from all the world ; and if it were not divided within it selfe , it need not feare all the world . if london were as a city at unity within it selfe , what could destroy it ? did we all doe as the israelites did , iudg. . . they all arose as one man , &c. and as ioshua . . how quickly would these wars ( through gods blessing ) be at end ? what an honour would it be to the cause we fight for ; to the reformation we pray for ; the religion we professe ; to the god we worship , if we did with united strength pursue these things ? how should we support and helpe one another , et portantem portare , as the cranes do one another in the manner of their flying . i must not here forget to mind you of that known story of scillurus that had eighty sonnes , and when he was dying he called them all before him , and presented them with a bundle of speares , and bad them try whether they could breake that bundle ; and they tryed , but were not able . afterwards he puls out one javelin out of the bundle , and bade them break that , which they easily did ; and so a second , and a third , till they had broken them all . intimating thereby , that unity in families , and compacted strength is the bond that preserves the whole family ; and wheresoever this bond is broken , that family is quickly destroyed . the like story doth salust tell of one micypsa , who when he was dying called his sonnes and caused them to write this sentence in golden letters : concordiâ parvae res crescunt , discordiâ magnae dilabuntur . oh that god would give us hearts to spiritualize these stories ! fifthly , consider the late nationall covenant you have taken , wherein you have lifted up your hands to the most high god , and have sworne to study unitie and conformitie in religion , &c. and to endeavour according to your places , to extirpate heresie , schisme , &c. i know not how it is come to passe , but sure i am , our divisions are greater since we took this covenant then before . and sure i am that god will call us to a strict account for this grievous sinne of periurie . and if ever england perish by these wars , this shall be englands motto : here lyeth a nation that hath broken covenant with god , and therefore is this great evill come upon her . and therefore i beseech you , be mindfull of your covenant ; and remember it is not the taking , but the keeping of covenant that prevailes with god . and if he shall be shut out of heaven that keepes not his promise , though it be to his hurt , psal. . . much more he that keeps not his oath , when it is for his good . sixthly , consider further , that our enemies that fight against us agree together : herod and pilate are made friends , and joyne together to put christ to death . the herodians and the pharisees , though dissenting one from another , yet both agree against christ , mar. ● . . the herodians were courtiers , and sought to bring in tyranny ; the pharisees were popular , and sought to maintaine the peoples liberties ; and yet they both joyned together against christ . thus did the sadduces and pharisees also . thus act. . . the epicures and stoiques combine against paul . shall iudas conspire with the pharisees and sadduces to betray christ ? and shall the disciples of christ fall out amongst themselves ? shall paul and barnabas divide one from another ? god forbid ! shall the irish rebels , the oxford lords and gentlemen , the english papists , and the english bishops : the protestants at large , and the seduced people all agree together like sampsons foxes with firebrands at their tayles to burne three kingdomes ? and shall not we agree together to save three kingdomes ? shall the lions , bearee , tygers , wolves , lambes and sheepe , &c. that were shut up in the arke , agree together while they were in the arke ? ( for we doe not read that they did hurt one another all that while ) and shall not we that are shut up here , in london , and in a few associated counties as in an arke , agree together to preserve one another from a deluge of waters that is drowning us all ▪ though we should differ in some few things one from another ? seventhly , consider the very heathen how carefull they have beene to maintaine unitie and peace in times of publique danger , and how carefull to lay aside all private quarrels . i will instance onely in the speech of aristides to themistocles . plutarch tels us , that from their very childhoods they did differ one from the other , and never could agree . but when a common enemy came against them , then aristides comes by night to themistocles , and saith unto him , si sapimus , omissâ tandem iuvenili et inani concertatione , contentionem de servanda graecia salubrem honestamque suscipiamus , &c. let us leave all youthly contentions , and tend unanimously to the publique good . oh that this counsell might take impression in the hearts of us christians at this time . eightly , consider further , how that the very devils in hell agree to promote their owne kingdome . if satan be divided against satan ( saith christ ) how can his kngdome stand ? and my text is brought ( as i have said ) as an argument to prove that christ did not cast out devils by the power of belzebub , because then satan should be divided against himselfe , and seeke his own ruine which he will never doe . there is peace amongst the devils in hell . and certainly there cannot be better musicke to the divels in hell , then to see the parliament divided against it selfe ; and the city divided against it selfe ; and the godly ministers divided against themselves at such a time as this is . ninthly , and especially , 〈◊〉 lord iesus christ who is the great peacemaker , who came into the world when all the world was at peace ; at whose birth the angels sang , glory to god on high , and in earth peace : who when he was dying left a legasie of peace to his people , and gave his disciples a new commandement , to love one another : ( which was therefore called a new commandement , because it was inforced with a new example ; even the example of christs love to us ) who when he made that admirable prayer , iohn . the chiefe part of it was , that god would make his children one , as he and the father were one . and he gives the reason of it , vers. . that the world may beleeve that then hast sent me . the world will not beleeve in christ when they see christians disagree . nothing hinders men from beleeving in christ more then the differences and divisions of those that doe beleeve in christ . it is an excellent observation of athanasius : that the very manner of christs death doth preach the doctrine of vnitie and love to christians . for christ was not sawen asunder as the prophet isaiah was . he was not beheaded as iohn baptist was . there was not a bone of his broken , nor any whit of his garment rent or torne . and all this to teach christians ( saith he ) to be at unitie within themselves . was not a bone of christ broken upon the crosse , and shall all his members breake in pieces now he is in heaven ? was his garment kept whole , and shall his body be rent and torne in pieces ? this is pauls argument to perswade the divided corinthians to peace and vnitie , cor. . . is christ divided ? and why are christians divided if christ were not divided ? why doth one say , i am of paul ; another , i am of apollo ; another , i am of cephas , &c. and therefore if you be christians live in love and unitie , as the disciples of iesus christ , that so the world may beleeve in christ . oh that these motives might take deepe rooting in your affections : and that every one in his place would labour after peace and vnitie . that you that are magistrates and iustices , would bind your selves to the peace ! it is no discredit in this sense to be bound to the peace . you are called iustices of the peace , not because you should hold your peace when god would have you to speake ; but because it is your dutie to make peace , and to keep peace . let all godly ministers preach up the duty of brotherly love , which is quite forgotten amongst most christians . it is a dutie quite dead and buried ; let us labour that it may have a speedy resurrection . the apostle saith , thes. . . as touching brotherly love ye need not that i write unto you &c. but we ministers , now a dayes , need to write and preach of no duty more then this . and then let all ministers and people , pray for the peace of ierusalem , and give the lord no rest untill he make england and ireland , a praise in the earth . let us pray for peace , and fight for peace , and contribute our money willingly for a peace . for indeed , all our fighting , and all our vast expences , are but as wayes and meanes to a safe and well grounded peace . let us fight for peace , with peace one towards another . and let us not complaine and murmur at the greatnesse of our contributions ; but remember the story of the old covetous miser that hung himselfe to save charges ; and his man comming in unawares and seeing his master a hanging , cut the rope in pieces and thereby saved his masters life . the master being recovered , instead of thanking his man , fell a chiding of him because he cut the rope in pieces , and so did put him to the charges of a new rope : whereas he should rather have untied it , then cut it . this man , you will say , did little deserve to have his life saved . iust such is our condition . our cruell enemies are ready to devoure and destroy us . all that the parliament doth , is to cut the rope in pieces with which they would hang us . and if we be put to more then ordinary charge , let us not grumble at those expences which are the preservation of our lives . that man is unworthy to live , that murmurs to lay out a little money to save his life . but here i must put in three caveats , & beseech you in the first place , to remember that when i speake so much for unity , i would also have you to remember that vnum & verum convertuntur . that unity without veriy , is not a true peace , but a conspiracy . omnis concordia in veritate . vnity ioyned with falshood is execrable adulterie , saith cyprian . when unitie and falshood are married together , it is no lawfull marriage , but execrable adultery . if i cannot have peace with men , but i must lose my peace with god ; farewell peace with men that i may keep my peace with god . one great reason why we have so little peace upon earth , is because we seek after it more then after the glory of god in heaven . you will must remember in the second place , that this vnity that we must labour after , must be in a scripture way . the primitive church for vnity sake , and to prevent schismes , set up one presbyter as a bishop to rule over the rest with maiority of power in iurisdiction and ordination . but this at best was but a humane invention , and it proved an increaser of schisme and division . the papists set up the pope to preserve unitie : but he is the greatest apple of strife the christian world hath . it will be our care to studie to promote a unitie in such a way which the scriptures hold forth , and this will prosper . you must also remember in the third place , that our unitie , peace , and love , as it must be in the truth , so it must be in truth . it must be cordiall and reall . oh , that i could once see all gods people of one lip , as it was before the confusion of tongues , gen. . . that this might be the motto of gods people in england : cor unum , via una , one heart , and one way . that they that shall sing one and the same song in heaven , may agree in the same way of worship here upon earth . excellent was that speech of grynaeus , when he was dying : i am now going ( said he ) to a place ( meaning heaven ) ubi lutherus calvino bene convenit : where luther and calvin agree well together . shall we agree well in heaven , and shall we not agree together upon earth ? god forbid . let us alwaies remember that speech of ioseph his brethren when they were going home to their father , gen . . see that you fall not out by the way . we are all pilgrims , travelling towards our heavenly canaan , to one and the same god and father . oh let us not fall out by the way . and let the two arguments that abraham used to lot , gen. . , . mightily prevaile with us , to make us more ambitious of unitie , peace , and concord , then ever yet we have beene . let there be no strife betweene me and thee , &c. for we are brethren , and the canaanite is in the land . these are two golden allurements : the lord make them effectuall ! i had almost forgotten davids arguments in the . psalme . behold , how good and how pleasant it is , for brethren to live together in unitie . the word behold , is prefixt that so the commendation might take the deeper impression . many things are good which are not pleasant , and many things pleasant , which are not good ; but it is both good and pleasant for brethren to dwell together in unitie . it is like aarons precious oyntment that went downe to the skirts of his garments , &c. it is a communicative mercy that perfumeth whole kingdomes with blessings . it is like the dew of hermon , &c. it makes barren lands fruitfull . it is like the dew upon the mountaines of sion , where the lord commanded the blessing , even life for evermore . but you will say , here are motives and arguments sufficient to perswade any man to the practise of this blessed grace . let us heare some helps and meanes to procure this great mercy , that so our divisions may be healed ; and peace , unitie , and concord may dwell in our land . this is a worke worthy of a god , and none but a god can doe it . it is with us in england , as it was with the women that went early in the morning to the sepulchre , and there they found a great stone , and they said , who shall roll away this stone ? for it is very great . mar. . , . and behold , there was a great earthquake , for the angel of the lord descended from heaven , and came and rolled backe the stone from the doore , and sate upon it . this is our condition . there is a great mountaine of division that obstructs the happinesse of england , and that hinders the lord christ and his kingdome from rising out of the grave of superstition . but who now shall roll away this great stone from the doore of the sepulchre ? i feare it will cost an earth-quake before it be removed . oh that we had faith to remove mountaines ! oh that god would send his angel to roll away this stone ! that god would make the assembly of ministers his angels to take away this great mountaine , that so there may be a resurrection of jesus christ , and his pure worship in all its glory and beautie even in our dayes ! the story of iehosaphat , chron. . . will very well suit with our times : we are in a very great straight as he was ; and what he did , and said , will very well be fit us . let us goe to god by prayer , and say . oh our god , we have no might against this great company that cometh against us . we have no strength to heale our divisions in the church , and in the state , they are so great and so many . we know not what to doe , but our eyes are upon thee . thou that didst find out a way hid from ages and generations , col. . . a way hid from angels and archangels , hid within thy selfe , ephes. . . to save poore undone , fallen , lost man , even by iesus christ . oh find out a way to reconcile king and parliament , to unite thy divided people in the truth ! oh blessed iesu that camest into the world to breake downe the middle wall of partition betweene iew and gentile ; that art the great peace-maker , make up our wide and great breaches , and take away the many wals of partition that divide us one from another . after this manner we must wrastle with god in prayer , and watch thereunto with all perseverance . but besides this generall helpe by prayer ; give me leave to name a few other which are more particular . first , let us labour to make our peace with god , and god will make us at peace one with another . tranquillus deus tranquillut omnia . if god be at peace with thee , he will make the very stones in the street to be at peace with thee ; he will make peace flow downe like a river , and like a mighty streame . when a mans wayes please god , he will even make his enemies to be at peace with him , prov. . . you shall finde in scripture , that when a church , state , or person divided it selfe from god by sinne , god suffered it as a punishment to be divided from it selfe by faction . assoone as ever solomon had forsaken god by idolatry , god presently divided his kingdome from him . and god threateneth ierem. . . that because his people had forsaken him , that therefore he would fill the inhabitants of ierusalem with drunkennesse , and he would dash them one against another , even the fathers and the sonnes together , he would not pity , &c. you shall find also that when a king and kingdome returned to god , then they had peace , and flourished in all outward happinesse , chron ▪ ▪ ▪ , , , , , , . chron. . , , . ▪ and therefore if ever you would cure englands distractions to purpose ; strike at the root and cause of our divisions . let us labour to find out all those sinnes that separate between us and god ; and when you have found them out , you must not deale with them as the parliament doth with their prisoners which they take , using them more kindly and courteously then they were used before they were prisoners : nor as david would have his sonne absolom , concerning whom he gave a strict charge , that they should use him kindly for his sake : but you must doe as the oxford men doe with our prisoners , use them cruelly . doe as ioshua did with the five kings whom first he kept up close prisoners in a cave , and afterwards sent for them , and trod upon their necks , and hung them up before the lord . thus must we deale with our sinnes , and then we shall have peace . for as the lines in a circumference that are drawne to the center , the neerer they are to the center , the neerer they are one to another : so the neerer any men come to god in similitude and likenesse , the neerer they will be ioyned one to another in unitie and love . for if any may say he loveth god and hateth his brother , he is a lier . for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seene , how can he love god whom he hath not seene ? and this commandement have we from him , that he that loveth god , love his brother also , ioh. . , . secondly , take heed of the land-destroying opinion of those that plead for an illimited toleration of all religions , even of turkisme , iudaisme , &c. the lord keepe us from being poisoned with such an error ! this text riseth up against it . for it will divide a kingdome against it selfe . it will rend it into a thousand pieces . it it a doctrine directly contrary to your late oath and covenant . a doctrine that overthroweth all church-government , bringeth in confusion , and openeth a wide doore unto all irreligion and atheisms . for at the same doore tha all false religious come in , the true religion will quickly get out . and if it be as good for a man to live where nothing is lawfull , as where all things are lawfull : surely it is every way as uncomfortable to live where there are all religions , as where there is no religion at all . thirdly , to heale our divisions , we must labour to be cloathed with the garment of humility : for onely by pride ( saith the wiseman ) cometh contention , prov. . . now there is a double humilitie we must be cloathed withall ; humilitie of iudgement , and humilitie of heart . first , humilitie of iudgement , to thinke that others may know the truth as well as our selves ; to have a low esteeme of our owne understanding : for he that thinketh he knoweth any thing , he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know , cor. . . and if any man teach otherwise , &c. saith the apostle , tim. . . . he is proud knowing nothing , &c. and therefore let us not be wise in our owne eyes , nor leane to our owne understandings , prov. . . . secondly , humilitie of heart . an humble heart is a peaceable quiet heart . an humble heart will be sensible of the least sinne , much more of this great sinne to distract and destroy the peace of three kingdomes by unnecessary disputations . fourthly , labour for grace to contemne the world and all worldly things . for many times divisions arise out of base covetousnesse . it was the love of the world that divided demas from paul . and therefore it is said , tim. . . that a minister must not be greedie of filthy lucre ; and as if that were not sufficient ; he addes nor covetous . and therefore if you would live in unitie and peace ; take heed and beware of covetousnesse . fifthly , pray for the spirit of meeknesse , patience , long-sufferance ; and for mortified affections . it is one of the ingredients required in a minister , that he should be one that is not soone angry , titus . . and one that is patient , no striker , no brawler , tim. . meeknesse , and patience , and mortification , are necessary ingredients into that medicine that must cure our divided kingdome . for an angry man stirreth up strife , and a furious man aboundeth in transgressions . prov. . . vnmortified affections are the cause of much disturbance in families and cities . and therefore christ saith , mar. . . have salt in your selves , and have peace one with another . this salt is the salt of mortification . we must labour to have our anger mortified ; our love of the world mortified ; our pride mortified ; and this will be a notable meanes to make us at peace one with another . as in the old law , every sacrifice was to be seasoned with salt : so let every man pray for this salt within himselfe to season his unmortified affections , and this will keepe him from putrifying in malice , envie , hatred , &c. sixthly , let all thy private aimes be swallowed up in the publique good . let the cause of iesus christ and his church be dearer to thee then thine owne life ; and this frame of spirit will exceedingly incline thee to all lawfull waies of peace and unitie . remember old ely , and how his heart trembled for the arke of god , sam. . . . he trembled not for the thought of his children , but for the arke ; and assoone as ever mention was made of the taking of the arke , he fell downe and brake his necke : he was not troubled at the mention of the death of his two sonnes , &c. the like we read of his daughter in law , sam. . , , , . the like of nehemiah who was in great prosperitie himselfe , and yet how was he distressed in spirit for the miseries of ierusalem , nehem. . . the like we read of daniel , &c. seventhly , we must nip divisions in the bud , and quench the fire of contention at the beginning . that fire is easily quenched at first , which when it hath once taken possession is not to be quenched . the lord grant it be not laid to our charge , that we have suffered englands distractions to grow to such a height , and have not laboured in our severall places to compose and quiet them . eightly , let us yeeld one to another for peace sake . famous is the example of abraham , and worthy of all imitation , who yeelded his right up to lot , who was his younger and inferiour , for peace sake , gen. . . if thou wilt take the left hand , then i will goe to the right ; or if thou departest to the right hand , then i will goe to the left . ninthly , take heed of groundlesse iealousies and suspicious one of another . this is englands great sinne , and the chiefe cause of many distempers amongst us . we are like unto the children of israel , who when they came first out of egypt did almost deifie moses and aaron , but afterward , assoone as ever they began to meete with straights and difficulties , they began presently to murmur against them , and to call their fidelitie into question ; and to accuse them , as if they had a designe to bring them into the wildernesse to destroy them , exod. . , . iust so doe we . when our armies for our sinnes are justly punished with ill successe , instead of reflecting upon our sinnes , to be troubled for them ; we fall a murmuring against our chiefe commanders , and question their fidelitie ; as if they had a designe to betray us into the enemies hand . i doe not speake this as if i would countenance any commander that is guilty ; or hinder just complaints of , and inquiries after those that are guilty ; or the use of just meanes to be rid of such . but all that i say is : that to fasten uniust suspitions , and groundlesse iealousies , upon those that venture their lives and estates in the common cause , is to be guilty of robbery and murder : it is to steale away and murder their good names , which is as precious as life it selfe : and it is a sinne that god will not pardon unlesse the party that is guilty endeavour to make restitution of his good name , which is a worke not easie to be done . for a mans good name is like a white piece of paper , which if once blotted it will be hard to wipe out that blot so as to leave no print of it behind . a mans good name is like a merchants estate which is long in getting , but is lost in a minute : and when it is lost in the bottome of the sea , how shall it ever be recovered againe ? so is a mans good name . but yet god will accept of our endevours to make restitution if faithfull and industrious . tenthly , to heale our divisions , we must make conscience to silence all our private opinions , and differences . hast thou faith ? ( saith the apostle , rom. . . ) have it to thy selfe before god . doe not disturbe the church of god at this time with thy private faith . indeed if it be a matter absolutely necessary to salvation , it is charitie to acquaint the church of god with it : but if we can be saved without it , this is not a fit time to broach any new opinion . for as elisha said to gehezi , king. . . is this a time to receive money ? &c. so say i : is this a time to trouble england with new opinions ? aulus gellius tels us of certaine men that were in a ship ready to perish by reason of a great tempest , & one of them being a philosopher , fell a asking of many trifling questions : to whom they answered : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; we are perishing , and dost thou trifle ? so say i ; is england a perishing , and is this a time to trouble it with unnecessary disputations ? i doubt not but there will a time come wherein every mans owne opinion shall be heard : but this is a time wherein we should all unite against the common enemy that seekes to devoure us all . for my part , i doe here openly professe , that if i had an opinion disagreeing from that way of reformation which is likely to be set up , and did see that the publishing of it would disturbe the peace of the kingdome , i would doe with it as the mariners did with ionah , i would cast it into the sea rather then increase the tempest by my opinion ; especially at such a time as this is . and i doubt not but every honest man will do the like . lastly , it is your dutie ( right honourable ) whom god hath betrusted with great power , to suppresse these divisions and differences in religion by your civill authoritie , as farre as you are able , lest you be accessary unto them . for god hath made you custodes utriusque tabulae , keepers not of the second table onely , ( as some fondly imagine ) but of the first table also , and not onely keepers , but vindices utriusque tabulae , punishers also of those that transgresse against either of them . for you are the ministers of god for good , and revengers to execute wrath upon him that doth evill . rom. . . and god hath deputed you for the punishment of evill doers , and for the praise of them that doe well . pet. . . there are some that would blot out halfe your commission , and restraine this good and evill to civill good and to evils onely against men . but this is against that generall rule , non est distinguendum ubi lex non distinguit . where the law doth not distinguish , there must not we distinguish . tell me i beseech you , shall it be lawfull for magistrates to punish those that destroy mens bodies , but not those that destroy mens soules ? shall they be blamed for suffering men to draw people away from obedience to the laws of the land and to themselves , and not also for suffering men to draw away people from the truth of the gospel , and from the wayes of god , such as hymenaeus and philetus , who overthrow the faith of some , and their words eate as a canker ? shall christian magistrates take up the maxime of tiberius , deorum iniurias diis curae esse ? let god himselfe take care to vindicate himselfe from injuries committed against god ? as for me , i will ( just like gallio ) take care of none of these things . can christian eares endure such language ? doth not god prophecy , isaiah . . that in the new testament kings shall be our nursing fathers , and queenes our nursing mothers ? and how can a christian magistrate discharge that dutie aright if he hath not power from god to punish those that would poyson the soules of his weake children with heresies , and soul-destroying opinions ? i do not deny , but that there is great wisdome to be observed by magistrates in distinguishing between persons and persons , betweene errors and errors . some persons are pious and peaceable , others turbulent and furious . some errors are such , as subvert the faith , and destroy the power of godlinesse : others are of a lesser nature , which may consist with the power of godlinesse , and with an unitie in the faith . but that which i now speake against , is that unbounded libertie that is pleaded for in divers books lately written , which hold forth this prodigious tenent . that every man is to be suffered to have the libertie of his conscience , be it never so hereticall or idolatricall . this overthroweth all the power of the magistrate in punishing heresie , blasphemy , idolatry , and is contrary to many plaine texts of the * old testament , and to those of the new testament above mentioned . object . will you allow the magistrate to tyrannize over mens consciences . answ. by no meanes . but i beleeve it is the dutie of magistrates to keepe men from infecting their subjects with soule-destroying errors . if thou hast an hereticall opinion , have it to thy selfe , and the magistrate will not ; nay , cannot meddle with thy private conscience . but if thou labourest to infect others with thy grace-destroying opinions . i doubt not but the magistrate is bound to keepe thee from spreading thy infection to the undoing of the souls of his subjects . if he may lawfully shut up a man that hath the plague upon his body , that he may not infect others , why not a man that hath the plague of heresie upon his soule , that so he may not destroy the soules of thousands ? shall a master in a family have power to put away a servant that is tainted with a grosse opinion , and yet not be called a tyrant over that servants conscience ? and shall not the chiefe magistrate of a kingdome have power to put out of his kingdome ( at least to shut up from doing hurt ) one that is his subiect and polluted with blasphemous hereticall idololatricall opinions ? is not the kingdome the magistrates house and family ? but enough of this . these are the meanes that are to be used to cure the miserable distractions of england . the lord give us grace to put them in practise . there is one vse more yet behind , and that is an vse of consolation to the people of god . notwithstanding , all the divisions and distractions that are in the kingdome . this is an alablaster boxe full of precious oyntment , and it consists of foure particulars . . remember for your comfort that there was never any great reformation brought in by godinto a kingdome , but it hath alwaies been attended with divisions and differences in religion . in luthers reformation , how great were the differences between him and calvin ; insomuch , as the reformation was more hindred by their divisions , then by the power and policy of the enemy , and yet notwithstanding , god carryed on the worke of reformation maugre these divisions . in the primitive times , many and great were the divisions of the church and of the ministers thereof ; insomuch , as nazianzen saith , that in his time there were sixe hundred errors in the church ; and in constantines time , the differences between the bishops were so many , that they brought bundles of petitions one against another , which the emperour out of his wonderfull desire of peace would not so much as read , but burnt them all before their faces . how sad was the division between paul and barnabas , and yet god turned it to a good effect . for by that meanes the gospel was the more spread throughout the world ! and therefore let us not be over-discouraged . for these divisions are no new things , and therefore no strange things . . consider for your comfort , magna veritas et praevalebit . truth is a beame of god , the purchase of iesus christ , and it shall prevaile at last . though our divisions and distractions do much weaken us and prorogue our settlement , yet notwithstanding the cause we manage is gods cause , and it shall prevaile at last . as christ iesus rose from the grave in spight of the iewes that rolled a great stone before the doore of the sepulchre to hinder him . so the cause of christ , and the worship and government of christ shall rise and flourish : and there will come a time wherein the church of god shall be glorious here upon earth ; and the motto of it shall be cor unum , via una . one heart , one way . this will come to passe in spight of our divisions . for god hath promised it , ier. . . zeph . . the third comfort is : that antichrist shall downe though he be never so firmely united . the kingdome of the devil shall be destroyed though satan joyne with satan . and though satan will not cast out satan , but is strongly compacted , and as a citie at unitie within it selfe , yet god will cast out satan at last , and his kingdome shall perish . though turke and pope ; though french and spaniard ; though the irish rebels , and english papists and protestants at large should joyn hand in hand & conspire together to overthrow the little flock of iesus christ , yet notwithstanding they doe but kick against pricks . antichrist is fallen , and the poore flock of christ shall be as a burdensome stone unto all people ; all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces , though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it , zach. . . bellarmine makes unitie a signe of a true church . but then there should be a true church amongst the devils ; for where he dwels there is peace . and yet the papists cannot boast much of their unitie . for they have their different sects opposite one to another , and the iesuite to them all . vnitie without verity is a signe of the malignant church , but not of the church of christ . and unitie without veritie , shall not uphold a state . for though hand ioyne in hand the wicked shall not be unpunished , prov. . . lastly , remember in what state and condition the people of the iewes were in when christ came into the world . it was when the government was departed from iudah , and the kingdome given to a stranger ; when the sanedrim ( which was their parliament ) was destroyed ; and they themselves brought into perfect slavery . their condition was never so bad as at that time . and also they never had more sects and divisions then when christ was borne : there were in ierusalem the herodians , the scribes and pharisees . there were also the esseni , ( though the gospel makes no mention of them . ) in this sad juncture of time iesus christ was borne . oh what abundance of consolation may be suckt out of the breasts of this truth ! christ came into the world when his church was in the greatest extremitie . and are not we at this time in great extremity ? are we not brought very low by our sinnes , and by our divisions the fruit of our sinnes ? we have divided our selves from god by our sinnes , and god hath divided us one from another . let us beseech the lord iesus christ to come once more into the world by his spirit of power ! let us not despaire of his coming . for he is deus in monte . he is our peace now the assyrian is in the land , mic. . . and when he comes he will come as a conquerour to subdue his enemies under his feet . this day is the day which is commonly called the feast of christs nativitie , or christmas day : a day that hath been heretofore much abused to superstition and prophanenesse . it is not easie to reckon whether the superstition hath beene greater , or the prophanenesse . i have knowne some that have preferred christmas day before the lords day , and have cryed downe the lords day , and cried up christmas day . i have knowne those that would be sure to receive the sacrament upon christmas day , though they did not receive it all the yeare after . this and much more was the superstition of the day . and the prophanenesse was as great . old father latimer saith in one of his sermons , that the devil had more service in the twelve christmas holy dayes ( as they were called ) then god had all the yeare after . seneca saith of his time , olim december mensis erat , nunc annus est . there are some that though they did not play at cards all the yeare long , yet they must play at christmas ; thereby , it seemes , to keepe in memory the birth of christ . this and much more hath beene the profanation of this feast . and truely i thinke that the superstition and profanation of this day is so rooted into it , as that there is no way to reforme it but by dealing with it as hezekiah did with the brazen serpent . this yeare god by a providence hath buried this feast in a fast , and i hope it will never rise againe . you have set out ( right honourable ) a strict order for the keeping of it , and you are here this day to observe your owne order , and i hope you will doe it strictly . the necessitie of the times are great . never more need of prayer and fasting . the lord give us grace to be humbled in this day of humiliation for all our owne , and englands sinnes ; and especially for the old superstition , and profanation of this feast : alwaies remembring upon such dayes as these , isa. . , , . finis . a catalogue of the sermons preached and printed by order of both or either houses of parliament ▪ from ianuary . to ianuary . ianuary . . master cawdrey . prov. . . master rutherford . dan. . . february . mr. baylie . zach. . , . mr. young . psal ▪ . ▪ march . . mr. gelespie . ezek. . . mr. bond . isaiah . . at the thanksgiving for the victory given to our forces under sir william waller , and sir william belfore , over sir ralph hoptons armie . aprill . . mr. obediah sedgwick . psal. . . mr. case . daniel . . at the thanksgiving for the victory given to the forces under the command of the lord fairfax at selby in yorkeshire . aprill . . mr. perne . exod . . not printed . mr. caryl . revel. . , . aprill . . doctor staunton . deut. . . mr. greene . nehemiah . , . may . . doctor smith . psal. . . mr. hall . matth. . . iune . . mr. hardwick . psal. . , . mr. hicks . isaiah . , . at the thanksgiving for the victory over prince rupert , and the surrender of yorke . iuly . . mr. vines . isaiah . . mr. hinderson . matth. . . mr. herle . not printed . iuly . . mr. rathband not printed . mr. gower . dan. . . at a fast extraordinary . august . . mr. hill . hag. . , . mr. palmer . psal. . . august . . mr. rayner . hag. . , . mr. tysdale . psal. . . at a fast extraordinary for the dysaster in the west . septemb. . . mr. newcomen . ioshua . , . mr. coleman . psal. . . septemb. . . mr. proffet . isaiah . . mr. seaman . kings . . at a fast upon the uniting of the armies together . octob. . . before the lords ▪ mr. temple . not yet printed . mr. chambers . mr. palmer . before the commons ▪ mr. calamy . acts . . mr. sedgwick . hebrews . . mr. vines . sam. . , ▪ octob. . . before the lords , doctor smith . doctor staunton . psal. . . before the commons ▪ mr. scudder . micah . . mr. woodcock . revel. . . novemb. . . before the lords , mr. strickland . psal. . . mr. spurstow . ezra . , . before the commons , mr. herle . sam. . , . mr. anthony burges . revel. . . novemb. . . before the lords , mr. hill . corinth . . . mr. wilkinson . chron. . . before the commons , mr. pickering . zach. . . mr. gipps . psal. . . decemb. . . before the lords , mr. calamy . mr. sedgwick . before the commons . mr. thorowgood . phil. . . mr. langley . psal. . , . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- ruffini histor. . ecclesiast . lib. . cap. . ainsw. xi gen. ● . . notes for div a e- * lib. . de bello gallico . quod factionibus & studiis trahebantur . camden britann . jam inde interior britannia magis civilibus bellis , & partium studiis , quam romanorum viribus attrita , post varias clades ultro citroque illatas in romanorum potestatem paulatim concessit . dum enim singuli pugnabant universi sunt victi , sic in mutuam perniciem ruentes ut non nisi oppressi senserint omnibus perire , quod singuli amiserunt . claudius his discordiis fretus , &c. reason . why divisions are so fatall to kingdomes , because they take away all the preservatives of a kingdome . . they take away peace from a kingdome . * dr. stoughton sermons . . they take away unitie , love , and concord . calente adhuc sanguine christi . hieron. hegesip. . ex euseb. col. . . exod. . reason . why divisions are so destructive to kingdomes , because they open a doore to all misery . . they let in confusion . . they let in a foraine enemie . . they disenable us to resist a foraine enemy . . they set a kingdome against it selfe . they bring in civill warres . civill warres are the worst of warres , for foure reasons . odia proximorum sunt cerrima . vse . a catalogue of the divisions of england , and what cause to mourne for them . . our divisions from god . . for our divisions one from another . . for the divisions of the common-wealth . . divisions in the church . * eus . de vita constantini . dissensiones in ecclesia sunt horribiliores & perniciosiore ▪ quovis bello civill . the mischiefes that church divisions 〈◊〉 . epiphan. here 's . ● . pezel . mollisi● hystor . dr. stoughtons sermons . vse . vse of reprofe of the causers of our divisions . . such as cause divisions betweene king and people . . such as cause divisions at home . . such as are false-hearted . . such as are discontented . three sorts of discontented persons . . such as are discontented out of pride and covetousnesse . . such as are discontented out of a blind zeale . nice . lib. . cap. . lib. . cap. . such as are discontented by way of revenge . vse . exhortations to unitie and peace . and first with the kings majestie . a double peace . . a treacherous peace . . a holy and safe peace . . one with another . * {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . * {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . * {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . motives and arguments to perswade us to study unitie and peace . liv. decad. . obiect . . means and helps for the procurement of unity and peace . answ . . helpe . bloody tenent . the good samaritan . john baptist . * chron. . . chro. . . ezra . . deut. . , . king. . . vse . a defence of the antidote against mr. baxter's palliated cure of church divisions wherein mr. baxter's contradictions and inconsistences ... are clearly discovered, and the great question about conformity briefly stated in a letter to mr. richard baxter / by edward bagshaw. bagshaw, edward, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a defence of the antidote against mr. baxter's palliated cure of church divisions wherein mr. baxter's contradictions and inconsistences ... are clearly discovered, and the great question about conformity briefly stated in a letter to mr. richard baxter / by edward bagshaw. bagshaw, edward, - . p. s.n.], [london : . imperfect: print show-through with loss of print. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bagshaw, edward, - . -- antidote against mr. baxters palliated cure of church divisions. baxter, richard, - . -- cure of church-divisions. sects -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a defence of the antidote against mr. baxter's palliated cure of church divisions wherein mr. baxter's contradictions and inconsistences , with the truth , and with himself , are clearly discovered : and the great question about conformity briefly stated , in a letter to mr. richard baxter . by edward bagshaw . how long do yee halt between two opinions , kings . . should not the multitude of words be answered ? and should a man full of talk be justified ? job . . thou canst not bear them which are evil , and thou hast tried them which boast themselves to be apostles , and are not , and hast sound them lyars . rev. . . printed in the year . to mr. richard baxter , health , peace , and a sound mind . sir , i perceive you take it for granted ( without any particular enquiring from my self about it ) that i wrote those just and weighty exceptions , which were lately published against your ( pretended and palliated ) cure of church divisions ; and notwithstanding any necessary sharpness which i was forced to use in that seasonable antidote , yet i find you still are pleased to call me brother , which is a civility i should have thanked you for , had the rest of your stile been answerable to the mildness of that expression ; but since you take that unbecoming liberty , as to revile when you should repent , and instead of confessing and forsaking your errors , charge me with crimes , which i bless god i dare not allow in my words , ( much less in my writings which are more deliberate . ) this makes me suspect that your pretence of friendship , and allowing me the title of brother , was only done with the same design , that joab had when he thus saluted amaza , to make the sword in your right hand to be the less observed , and my wound thereby the more deadly and unavoidable ; so that till my truth and innocence be cleared , and your repentance ( for wronging me in both ) manifested , it will be a favour if you look upon me as one , who neither desires , nor ( if you believe what your self hath writ ) deserves , any such expressions of your familiarity . to shew how much you are for the middle-way ( tha is in other words , neither to be hot nor cold , or neither to be altogether for truth nor altogether for error , but to hang laodicea like , in a lukewarm , and neutral indifference between both ) you have taken pains to find out a middle name , between a mistake and a lye , which you wittily call an untruth ; and this you are pleased to charge upon me , as a very soft word , and one that i would not be offended with : but sir , this frothy complement might have been spared , for i hope you are not to learn that every untruth is a lye ( iohn . . . ) and you needed not have been so scrupulous of speaking your thoughts in scripture language ; but this i ought not to wonder at , since you are not afraid to dethrone the scripture from being a perfect rule , (a) and therefore would manifest by this invention , that you thought it not sufficient to teach us the right way of speaking , and so was not a perfect rule of good manners . but leaving your phrase , i rather chuse to speak unto the thing you mean by it , and whether i have been so guilty as to wrong you , either by a mistake , or a lye , or an vntruth , or whatsoever fine word else you please to use , remains now to be examined , in this brief review and defence of some of the principal exceptions , that i have already urged against you , upon the clearing of which , the whole cause , that is in controversie between us , will depend . my first exception was , that the whole design of your book was to make your brethren ( that have not your latitude , and cannot reach the subtilty of your distinctions ) odious . this you tell me , is a fundamental vntruth , which animates all the rest for it was not your design at all : truly sir , i am so unwilling to charge either you , or any else , with more then . i have grounds to think is justly your due , that i would gladly take your word in this matter , and so pass it over ; but i hope you will pardomme if i cannot ; because , first , many hundreds of sober , impartial , and unbiassed persons , have carefully read your book , as well as my self , and they all make the same judgment of it ; and i think in reason , that is to be esteemed the design of a book , whatever was the secret and unknown intention of the writer , which the words themselves , and the manner of writing ( without any streining ) do offer unto every serious and inquisitive reader : secondly , this use hath already been made of your book , to render such as cannot conform much more criminal then before , in that your name and credit is urged against them ; and this not only in discourse by many , but by a late author in print , who quotes your book to justifie his treatise against toleration . thirdly , in your very next paragraph , ( and likewise elsewhere in this last book ) (b) you call separation a crying sin , nay the crying sin ; and you scruple not to insinuate that all the iudgments , which in this nation we do either feel or fear , were to be changed upon separation as the principal procuring cause . pray sir , consider this , and then tell me , what can make your brethren more odious , and more expose them to the peoples fury , and to the rulers revenge , then thus to make them the causes of the nations calamity : if in separating from the publick forms of worship ( which we therefore account false , because god hath not commanded them ) our sin is so great , that the place where we live cannot be held innocent , but must suffer from the hand of god for our sakes , we are certainly a people who deserve to be hated of all , and the confiscations , imprisonments and deaths , which some of us have already felt ( and possibly may yet remain in greater extremity to be our portion ) are no longer to be bewailed and grieved for as persecutions of the innocent , but rather to be rejoyced and gloried in , as due punishments of noxious offenders ; so that either you must retract and blot such passages out of your book ( and thereby testifie your repentance of them ) or we are confident both god and the world will justifie us , if we still retain our opinion of the ill meant and unworthy design of your book against us . your next attempt is to free your self from being looked upon as an earnest and active instrument in the late warr ; i mean ( since you press me to speak plainly ) in the parliament's war against the king : i said , it became not you to mention with so much bitterness what was then done , (c) because you were as guilty of stirring up and fomenting that warr , as any one whatsoever : this you absolutely deny , and boast much of your loyalty , and seem to be greatly offended that such a thing should be charged upon you , and i am again reproached wth vntruth for it : sir , i am not willing to take up former matters , nor do i at all delight to expose you union the scorn of your enemies , and to the pity of your friends , but i cannot help it ; you have confidently made the challenge , and will not be beholding to an act of indemnity , but stand upon your innocence , and therefore you must endure what follows . i must confess your bold and resolute disclaiming any activeness in that warr , did so much stagger me , that i began to question the truth of all the reports that i had heard ; but your own books ( which i have since read ) do so fully prove my charge , that nothing but your hopes that all is forgotten as well as pardoned , which is past , could ever embolden you to so peremptory denyal ? what sir , were not you as active in that war as any ? whcn , in your holy common-wealth (d) you tell us , that , when you engaged in the parliaments war against the king , you thought it the greatest outward service that ever you performed to god ; and , that you encouraged many thousands to it . and , that , though many things fell out otherwise then you expected , yet you were so far from repenting of what you had done , that did the same circumstances occurre , you would do it again , or else you should be guilty of treason or disloyalty against the soveraign power of the land , and of persidiousness to the common-wealth , &c. can you read sir these passages , and still deny , that with your utmost industry you did promote the war ? or can you think you dealt uprightly in blaming those , who did much less then you , though they have since suffered more ? and because you declaim so much against the changes which followed upon the war , and ask me , ( who had nothing at all to do with it ) many malicious and ensnaring questions about them . this i must tell you doth as little become you as the other ; for how can you , with any appearance of integrity , reproach others for changing the government , when , ( in your writings ) you do highly approve of that , which was the worst part of the change , the setting up of cromwell to be protector ? what is this else but to cry out loudly against the treason , and yet to hugg and to embrace the traytour ? for you greatly commend that absurd tool , the humble petition and advice , ( which was cromwells instrument of government ) and you say of it (e) a more excellent law hath not been made for the happiness of england , concerning parliaments , at least since the reformation , and of cromwell himself ( though he dyed in his sinful usurpation , without manifesting any repentance ) you give this saint-like character , in your preface to the army , the late protector did prudently , piously , faithfully ( to his immortall honour , how ill soever you used him ) exercise the government . sir , could you say all this of him then , and doe you think your most partial friends can justifie you now , when you compare him to the tyrant maximus , and make him in effect to be nothing else but a (f] murderous and a bloody vsurper ? which although it may ( in the mouth of another who never flattered him ) be perhaps received as his true character , yet it became not you ( who had so officiously before brought your odours to embalm his memory ) thus to bespatter and disgrace him . as for your flattery to his son , which i also charged you with , and you ( with a strange , but not to your self unusual , boldness ) do deny , what can be more apparent ? in your disputations about church government . you thus address your self to him , i observe that the nation generally rejoyceth in your peaceable entrance upon the government , and many are perswaded you have been kept from blood in our late warrs , that god might make you a healer of our breaeches , and employ you in the temple-work , which david himself , though he earnestly desired it , might not be honoured with : and then you advise him to cherish vnion among his own pastors ; for this , say you , would be the way to lift him up highest in the esteem and love of all his people , and make them see , that he was appointed of god to be a healer and a restorer , and to glory in him , and to bless god for him , as the instrument of our chiefest peace ; you also tell him in the dedication of your key to catholicks , that you are one who bless god for him , and who rejoyce in the present happiness of england , and concurre with the common hopes of yet greater blessings under his government , which there you pray for , and so subscribe your self his faithful subject . now sir , if you please , find out a middle-word between falshood and flattery , and think to excuse your self by that , while i take leave to say , that such kind of language , ( to one who in no sense could be accounted a lawfull governour ) doth too rankly savour of both : go if you please , and boast your self of your present loyalty , and seem to take it ill as you pretend to do , [g] if any think otherwise of you , but still remember , that even you who now ( in that respect ) so much boast and exalt your self above your brethren ) telling them , that [h] god in justice hath put them down ) did also say ( when you thought you might do it safely ) that you were satisfied in two things , first , that [ i ] god in justice had put down the former governours ( meaning the king and his party ) for their persecution and scorning of piety . secondly , that you thought your self bound to submit unto the present government ( which was then in the hands of rich. cromwell ) as set over us by god , and that you would obey for conscience sake , and behave your self as a loyal subject towards them . sir , you that professed your self to be so loyal then , cannot in reason be supposed to be conscienciously loyal now , and the least you can expect , is neither to be believed nor trusted . i have done , sir , with my defence of this exception , and now if you please , charge me with vntruth ; for affirming , you were as active as any , in the late war ; and deny if you can , the consequence i gathered from thence ; that , it became not you to blame the effects ; who gave such rise and encouragement to the cause : i mean , unless you repent of the cause ; which it is evident , you have not yet done ; and if i may not be believed in this opinion of you , i doubt not but the bishop of worcester will ; who , for this very thing did formerly accuse you of rebellion k from which charge , he that l defended you then , leaves you to acquit your self now as well as you can . and now , sir , for a close of this , i should ask your pardon , for thus venturing to break the act of oblivion , but your importunity did force me to it ; and i could not otherwise clear my self from your slanderous imputation of falshood , but by bringing truth to light , and by stripping you of your disguise ( under which , for so many years you have been masked and covered ) leave you naked and defenceless to the judgement and censure of every impartial and unprejudiced reader ; and if any thing is written here , which you will be ashamed to read , and afraid to give an answer to , pray thank your self , who would not be quiet , nor let your brethren alone , till you were thus brought forth to an open discovery . your mentioning , with so much scorn , the doctrine of the temporal reign of christ , which you , in derision , call the [b] fifth-monarchy-way , and your endeavouring to expose all that you think favour that opinion , ( and in particular mr. brown ) is another evidence , that you dare not look any truth in the face , which brings present danger with it ; no , though formerly you were as earnest , and open an asserter of it , as any : for not many years ago you told us , that [c] you were perfectly neutral , as to the point of christs visible and personal reign upon earth , and you did not know which way your judgement did most incline ; but the theocrotical policy , or divine common-wealth ( which is the unquestionable reign of christ upon earth . ) this , all christians are agreed , may justly be sought , and the temporal dignity of the saints , which would undoubtedly much bless the vvorld . sir , i have been very curious to enquire into the doctrine of the fifth monarchy ; and most of my converse is with those that do in faith expect , and in pationce wait for such a time ; and i never knew any of them ( however they are mis-represented ) carry the notion farther than you have already done . it will become you therefore to enquire , what is your reall ground , why such , who still retain those principles which you once laid down , should now be mentioned by you , with so much scorn and slighting : till you have found out and declared a better reason , pray give me leave to think this is the chief ; because you dare not own any hazardous & persecuted truth ; and you find it far easier ( in your notional divinity ) to recant all that formerly you were convinced of , than to bring your heart unto a willingness for martyrdome ; and this alone , i take likewise to be the true cause , why so weakly , and so unlike a minister of the gospel , you inveigh against [d] sufferings ; for you have never yet experienced either the comfort or the cleansing of them ; and therefore venture rashly to speak evil of what you know not , and which i fear you have neither courage nor integrity enough to venture the trial of . i speak it to your shame , since the scripture often recommends afflictions as the necessary exercise of our faith , and the chief matter of our christian joy and triumph . but how ill soever you had used the living , methinks you should have spared the dead , and not disturbed the dust of my fellow-prisoner mr. powel , [e] by reproaching his memory with so abusive and disgraceful a mention of him , as if he were a false prophet , and acted by a deluding spirit : for you lay to his charge , that many years ago , he prophesied of some things , which we do not yet see fulfilled : but , first , may not a good man , nay a true prophet , be sometimes mistaken ? was not samuel so , when he took eliah to be the lords anointed ; was not nathan deceived , when he encouraged david to build the temple ? and did ever any yet suspect them to be false prophets for that ? secondly , may not many prophets truly foretell things to come , and yet those things be a long time suspended and delayed because of the sins of a people ? is not this condition to be understood in most scripture prophecies , which we find expressed in zech. . and this shall come to pass , if you will diligently obey the voice of the lord your god ? this and much more may be said in defence of that diligent and faithful servant of the lord , whom i knew to be truly religious and worthy , and therefore thought it my duty to vindicate him from your unchristian calumny . and pardon me sir , if i put you in mind ( for you seem to have forgot ) how in this the lord favoured him , in that after much exercise of affliction , he was taken away in peace , and buried in honour ; when i fear such as you will be suffered to our live your own fame , and your memory shall dye before you . for god will resist the proud , and such as exalt themselves shall be abased and humbled ; which prophecy is true , whatever mr. powels was . i am sorry that i am forced to speak thus plainly , but the pride of your heart , discovered by your writings , is so apparent , that it cannot but be known and read of all men ; to go no farther for instances then your last book ; what needed you have told the world in print , that [f] you chose once an easter-day to communicate in a very populous church in london ; purposely that it might be the farther known : is not this like the hypocrites , to blow a trumpet before you , and to do your actions that you may be seen of men ? what other end could you have , in doing that so publickly then or in declaring it now , but a vain-glorious hope , that doubting and unsatisfied christians might look upon your example , as their pole-star , and accordingly direct their motions ? i look upon it also as a strange piece of boasting , when you tell us that men of all judgments have written against you : as to reckon them up in your own words [g] some infidells , divers quakers , papists , antinomians , some arminians , some anti-arminians , anabaptists , seperatists , levellers , diocesans , &c. what sir , is it possible that men of these several perswasions , which you have expressed , have all written against you , and doth there remain yet a greater number concealed in the gulph of a bottomless & c. ? is it indeed true , that you offend all , and please none ? and can you glory that you are counted the ismael of the age ? pray sir remember what became of him ; he was cast out of abrahams house , that is , out of the church of god , for scorning , and when you do a little better consider of it , that those worthily famous and honoured men mr. rhotorford , mr. burges , mr. blake , mr. crandon ( besides some living of equal repute for learning and piety ) have all written against you , and solemnly warned others to beware of your books ( as containing much leaven of false and dangerous doctrine in them ) did i say , you seriously consider this , you would be grieved for grieving them , and not put it in among your triumphs , that you had provoked so many able and worthy pens to oppose and antidote the infection of your writings : to conclude this point ( for it is a sore place , and i would not handle it so roughly , but in order to healing ) when i said in one of my exceptions , that i feared you were not sound in the doctrine of iustification by faith alone , without works ; instead of answering directly and satisfying my scruple ( which you might have done in few words ) you referr me to five [h] or more treatises , which you say you have written upon that subject : and in another place [i] you tell me that you have written the better part of above fifty books against the profane , the jews , and the mahumedans . ( i will not enquire to what purpose , for i am very confident none of those did ever read what you have written against them . ) but adde to these your several other treatises , as about baptism , confirmation , church government , commonwealth , &c. your books will in all amount to as many volumes as tostatus writ , concerning whom , ( and all such kind of writers ) you once gave this true character , ( though since you have most unhappily forgotten it , ) [k] i cannot but account all those tostatus's impudently proud , who think the world should read no bodies works but theirs . pray sir , read this passage again , and compare it with what you have already writ , ( and what as i hear you do yet farther intend to write ; ) and then tell me in earnest what you think of your self ; for here , according to your own words , [l] evidence must decide the case . i think sir , i may say to you with every whit as much truth and candour , what you dis-ingeniously reply upon me , [m] i have no mind to make you odious , nor to open your sin to others ; but you have opened it to the world , and i must open it to you , if possibly you may repent : and therefore having said this to your self , ( that by setting before you some few of your many failings , you might be humbled , and come to a more sober understanding of your self and way . ) i come now to speak something , and that very briefly , to the question about conformity , which hath occasioned all this heat betwixt us : and in the handling of this , i think i may also say , as you sometimes did [n] i approve not tautologies , nor a tedious stile , nor the heaping up of useless matter and words ; which rule in writing , though you forget to observe , yet i shall keep close to ; for truth needs not many words to defend it . in the stating of this question , you do your self grant so much , that you scarce leave any thing , to be either disputed or denyed by those whom you pretend with so much vehemency to oppose ; for , first , you grant [o] that we are not to have communion with a diocesan church , as such , and that we are not to own diocesan bishops . secondly , you allow that we are not to have communion with persecutors , nor with such as have consented to our silencing , thirdly , you affirm that we are not to communicate with parish churches only , nor with all of them , and particularly , not with such whose pastours are , through insufficiency , heresie , and impiety , intolerable . and this you tell us , was your own practise , for , you say [p] you resolved , if you lived where was an intollerable minister , you would not hear him , nor come near him , so as to encourage him in his undertaking of that sacred office. all this , and more of this nature ( which you assert ) being granted , i scarce see what it is that you contend for , or so earnestly declaim against ; since from these grounds separation at this day may easily be justified : for , first , every parish church is a part of the diocesan ; and if a diocesan church , as such , is not to be communicated with , then a parish church , as such , is to be seperated from ; since there is the same reason of the parts as of the whole : and you must find out a new logick , before you can prove , that if the whole be corrupt , any of the parts are clean and fit for our communion . secondly , a parish minister is ( in that station and office ) but a servant of the diocesan bishop , and therefore rightly called a curate , and if we may not own , ( as you grant ) the bishop , i think it will necessarily follow that his substitute and curate hath no reason to expect any respect from us . we doe not use , in other cases , to regard the man , when we think it a duty to despise the master . thirdly , if persecutors are not to be communicated with , nor such as have consented to our silencing , which you also allow , ( though i could wish you had proved it better then by the obscure and disputable example of martin ) [q] then i think very few , if any of the parish ministers , but must even upon this account also be separated from ; since either by open consent , or else by an vndoing and pernicious silence , they have all made themselves guilty of that grievous sin : there being but little difference in the sight of god , between the persecuting of brethren ourselves ; and ( by not sharply reproving it , ) seeming to approve of it in others . lastly , admitting there are some worthy and able men among the parish ministers ( which for my own part , i believe never a whit the more because you affirm it , ) yet this we must say , that their sin is great in submitting to so undue a way of entring into the ministry ; and therefore we both forbear our selves , and warn all others not to hear them , because we cannot think our lord christ ever sent such to preach in his name , who directly and by a solemn oath have renounced their christian liberty , under pretence of preaching christ ; and are indeed nothing else ( as to the whole discharge and exercise of their office ) but servants of men , which we have already fully learned from the apostles , is altogether inconsistent with being servants of christ , galatians . . corin. . . and therefore as such we cannot own them . for the question is not ( as you weakly and insignificantly word it . ) whither [r] a defective , faulty , true church may ordinarily ( or at least sometimes he joyned with ; but whither a defective faulty imposing church is not to be separated from ; this we affirm ; because , first , we know not how else to preserve our christian liberty ( which it is an indispensible duty to maintain ) but by separating from those who would unduly take it from us : secondly , being present where those things are used in the worship of god , which god hath not commanded , this would involve us in the guilt and contagion of them ; nor doe we believe ( however we have your word for the contrary ) the lord will otherwise interpret it , since he hath so strictly charged us , to keep far from a false matter ; and not to partake in other mens sins : lastly , whatever pretences may be used ( as it is easie to write declamations ) for the keeping of peace , yet ( to speak strictly and so as to satisfie conscience ) peace is but ill bought , if we must purchase it at so dear a rate , as with the loss of truth : and this truth concerning the sole sovereign power of our lord christ , in appointing all matters of his worship ( he being the lord of his house , and faithful in all things as moses , heb. . ) this is a point so necessary to be maintained , and so utterly inconsistent with the supposing that any thing is to be obtruded , which he hath not commanded , that we dare not allow our selves in the practise of any thing , which may prejudice that fundamental : and we judge we have sufficient warrant from what the apostles did in a like case , acts . . for if they reproved such as preached up circumcision , and other legall ceremonies , at that day , when as the apostles had given them no such commandement ; saying of them , that they subverted ( or spoiled ) the souls of the disciples ; then may we affirm the like of those now , who , in things equally indefensible doe act with every whit as little authority , from whom upon that very account , we think it our duty to separate . i am not ignorant that you ( after many others , who have formerly much better pleaded this cause ) do insist upon two arguments by which you labour to defend your irregular way of communion . the first is , that in the primitive churches there were many corruptions , which the apostle writes against , but doth not advise any , because of them , to separate : but i answer , that in this instance● as well as in your state , you do wholly ( i will not say ignorantly ) mistake the question : for it is not corruption or errour , barely considered as such , that we account to be a sufficient ground of separation ; but the imposing of that error with an high hand , and making a submission to it ( at least in our practice and outward observance ) the very condition of communion , this , we say , is a thing which necessitates us to make a separation , and that for the reasons i have already urged ; to which i will adde only this , that , however the presenting our bodies at a worship which we doe not inwardly approve of , may render us excusable and justifie us among men , yet we are sure it will not in the sight of god , who hates hypocrisie in his service , and values every offering by the heart of him that brings it . i might content my self with urging thus much , but because the corruptions that were in the first churches , are often pleaded in this case , i will therefore examine the argument drawn from them a little farther , and first , this is clear in scripture , that our lord christ ( who was himself holy and separated from sinners ) did never call nor design his church to be an impure mixt body of holy and vnholy , without any distinction blended and hudled up together ; but we have it frequently mentioned in scripture , that he called his people out of the world , to be an holy seperate people ; an habitation , and house for himself by his spirit to dwell in ; with many expressions to the same purpose , whereupon every one who names the name of christ , is solemnly commanded to depart from all unrighteousness . secondly , though through the corruption of men , and negligence of church officers ( for which they are blamed rev. . . . ) many ungodly prophane formalists and hypocrites , did ( and daily doe ) creep in , yet there is a strict command given to put such out of the church cor. . thes . , rev. . and all are commanded to turn aside from them , tim. , . rom. . . which commands do strongly and convincingly imply , that if such are to be with drawn from , then if any church who is admonished concerning them , shall still maintain , abet and countenance such ; that church also is thereby defiled , and become unfit to be communicated with : for a little leaven leavens a whole lump , cor. . , and one sinner destroyes much good , eccl. . . and many are defiled by the contagion of one , heb. . . all which places show , that a church , which after admonition and discovery of offenders , will not use her authority in casting them out , doth partake of their sins , and becomes as guilty as they , and therein as unworthy of communion , lastly , which will fully answer the scruple , it is to be considered , that the primitive churches were setled by the apostles , and constituted according to the divine pattern , having all the ordinances of christ , and true officers , rightly established amongst them ; so that though many scandalous sins did break out , and were visible among some of the members , yet a power was still retained in each church for the keeping themselves pure , by casting out offenders ; whereby they were kept to the institution and orders of christ , without any universal innovation or degenerating in those essentials of order as well as doctrine , which they fell into in the ages after ; and when anti-christianism ( which was then working ) did manifestly shew it self not only in rejecting the truth , thes . . but in imposing error , rev. . . . then was separation necessary to be made ; which is implied in measuring , ( as it were circumscribing and enclosing ) the altar-worshippers , and casting out the others . rev. . . , and likewise in the sealed ones that had a mark upon their foreheads ; whereby is meant some outward note of distinction from anti-christs followers , rev. . . . and . . this necessity of separation which began then , continues still ; since our churches , though reformed from popery ▪ ( that is , from anti-christianisme ) in some points , yet are not restored unto the primitive pattern and purity : so that more may be said for separation now ( when whole churches are out of order and corrupt ) then could be at that time , when corruption had infected only some particular members , for it is not , as i said before , corruption barely , no nor imposition barely , that is a sufficient ground for any to separate ( for where some lesser errors are held but not imposed , or where only necessary things are imposed , we shall not forbear communion ) but when error is once imposed , and by a strong hand forcibly maintained , ( notwithstanding all admonitions and endeavours of reformation ) here we must separate or consent to sin , which is our present case ; and till you draw your parallel exact , and suit it in all respects to what it was before , your instances , from the practice of former times , are but impertinent and unconcluding . the second argument that you do with much vehemency press , is the example of the former non-conformists , who you say were all against separation , and why should we be wiser then they ? to which i answer in learned and judicious mr. hildershams words , and the rather because i find you quote his name in favour of your opinion . first , it hath been an old trick of hypocrites to pretend great reverence and respect to the servants of god that are dead , when their credit might serve to the disgrace of gods servants that now live and are their teachers : so did the jews speak gloriously of moses and the prophets , mat. . . whereas on the other side , the faithful are described by this note , they embrace and are established in the present truth , pet. . . that is in the truth that is now taught them . secondly , admit that the servants of god , whose judgement and practice these men do seem to stand so much upon , had been never so learned and godly men , yet we may not build our concience upon the credit of any man , neither of them that have taught us heretofore , nor of them that teach us now , but only upon the word of god : if any ( though far , inferiour to them in piety and learning ) shall bring you the word of god , the manifest word of god , against such or such an abuse ? and you say you will not receive it , because such a learned and good man was of another mind , you sin in an high degree against god , for you oppose the credit of man to the authority of gods word , in this case , we must remember what the apostle saith . gal. , . thirdly , we are not to rest in the judgement and practise of those good men that have lived before us ; for as it is with the particular members of the church , so it is with the whole church , it must grow and encrease in grace and knowledge . though asa was a good king , and reformed much in his first days , yet jehosaphat reformed more , chron. . . and josiah went further , then either jehosaphat or any other that had been before him , kings . . and whereas you mention the holiness and learning of those non conformists , thereby to deterr us from going beyond their line & measure , i may reply , in that same worthy authors words — though they were holy and learned men , yet it may well be , that the lord hath revealed that to his servants now , which they saw not , for the lord hath oft done so ; david had more understanding than his teachers had , psal . . . and the disciples of christ , saw many truths , which many of the prophets ( though they were it may be holier then they ) did not see , luke . . many points of gods truth are revealed now even to babes , what the patriarchs and prophets , ( though holy men and highly in gods favour ) saw not : he adviseth therefore , rest not so much on the judgment , advice , and example of the best men , but examine them by the scriptures , for good men have oft proved satans instruments to deceive others , as peters example misled barnabas , gal. . . . thus far , and much more to the same purpose saith that excellent author , ( whose words because i thought they might be of weight to you , ) i chose to transcribe at large , rather then to say the same things in other words of mine own . to the same purpose mr. gee , when he was urged with the authority of calvin , bucer , pareus , &c. who all give an other interpretation then that which he follows in his exposition of rom. . replyes thus , — the opinion or averment of man , ( even of the best for learning and piety , ) in a case of conscience , or in the enquiry , what is the sense of such and such a scripture , or such a divine precept is not an oracle neither , will it pass for such in any controversie . the truth is we are very prone to attribute some authority to it , and to urge it upon others , so far as we find it concurrent with our own perswasions , but who is he that will be prejudged or concluded by it , contrary to the opinion that he hath received , or in what he is otherwise doubtful ? the words of that learned man may be applyed to the present case , for sir , you know how much you have departed from the doctrine of those famous non-conformists in many the most material points of religion , and therefore cannot justly be allowed ; in this , to make use of their authority : it will i suppose be easily granted that it is a very improper thing for any to seem to magnifie so much the opinion of those worthy men ( as to press it now upon their brethren ) in the business of ceremonies and conformity , when they themselves refuse to follow them in their other more sound and substantial doctrines . to give you a few instances , first , the former nonconformists held armenianisme ( that is , the doctrines of of free-will in the things of god , of vniversal grace , and vniversal redemption ) to be so fundamental and dangerous an error ; that they have called it a beelzebub-error , and another gospel . but you do not only speak favourably of it , but also proudly tell us , that of you are very confident , a not one of many hundreds , who speak against communion with arminians , do understand what arminianisme is ; as if the difference were either so small , that it was not worth the while to oppose it , or else so abstruse and difficult , that plain christians could not easily come to know it . truly sir , i acknowledge my self the meanest of my brethren , and yet i think , who understands the necessity of being born again , and renewed by the spirit of god , must needs understand his own free will hath not the least power to receive the things of god , and whoever doth this , knows very well what arminianisme is , though perhaps he may be ignorant of the name , which is not at all material in the controversie : and indeed i wonder you can so confidently plead for communion with arminians , and that with an &c. too ; when you formerly told us , that , in the points of predestination , redemption , free-will , effectual grace , perseverance , and assurance of salvation ; the jesuites and arminians do teach the same doctrine . sir , i hope you do not intend to enlarge your communion so far , as to take in the iesuites also ; if you do , pray deal clearly with us , and tell us so , and do not delude us with an unlimited and untelligible etcetera . secondly , the former nonconformists did so fully hold that the scripture was to be believed upon it's own authority and testimony , that they all unanimously affirm , it is a dangerous thing not to rest in the authority of scripture , not to count it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but you , jesuite-like , for i am sorry ● cannot give it a milder term , are not afraid to say , the scripture tells us not sufficiently and particularly which books in it self are canonical , b nor what various readings are the right , nor whether every text be brought to us incorrupted : so that in effect , you do resolve the credit of the holy scripture , into the truth of church-history ; which words are so contrary to the true protestant doctrine , so derogatory from the self-evidencing light , and divine authority of the vvord of god contained in the scripture ; and so fully agreeing with the doctrine of the jesuites in this point , that all which you have writ ( pretendedly for the defence of the scripture , when indeed you betray it ) is not able to make any tolerable satisfaction . what need i mention more , as that the former nonconformists thought there was no possibility of salvation for the papists , no more than for a samaritan , or an idolater : but you tell us , that a you confesse you affect not the honour of that orthodoxousness . and in one of your books , if i am not mistaken in my collections , you seem to affirm , at least strongly imply , that a man may be saved in any religion , that lives morally , though he knows not christ ; which is , as mr. hildersham calls it , a damnable conceit ; since it renders the whole mystery of salvation by christ alone , vain and ineffectual . add to this , the former conformists said , the filth of nature cannot be sufficiently spoken of ; nay , no angel can sufficiently point out the mystery of sin , and filthiness of nature . but you advise us , to take beed , least in speaking against the corruption of nature , we run into excess : which are the very words in english , of andradius the jesuite in latine , to whom the learned chemnitius answers , as i do to you ; that whosoever thinks slightly of the silth of natural corruption , must needs over-value himself , and undervalue the grace of christ . i shall conclude with mentioning one thing more ; i affirmed , that by flesh you had told us was only meant the sensitive appetite ; this you reply , is an untruth , and a meer fiction , b for you never said so . sir you had need have a good memory ; for you have writ many books , in which , as containing many words , there cannot want much sin and vanity ; and indeed had you meditated strictly upon a quarter of what you have writ , you could not be guilty of so strange forgetfulness : for in your premonition to the saints rest , you have these very words , many think that by flesh is meant only in-dwelling sin ; when , alas ! it is the sensitive appetite , that it chargeth us to subdue ; for which you quote rom. . , , . which of all the places , where the word flesh is named , doth 〈◊〉 ●●vour your conceit : and indeed sir , that i may confess a secret you , this very passage of yours , i looked upon as so conceited and singular , and many years ago it gave me so great offence , that i threw away your book upon it , and never would read it over ; as not thinking it possible that one , who erred in the very entrance , in so plain a truth , was able to instruct me in any thing that was worth my knowing . i believe many will think i concluded too rashly and hastily ; but i am much confirmed in that judgement of your book , since a person yet living , and one worthy of credit , acquainted me , that when the learned and judicious mr. herle had read that cried up book of yours , he told him , it had been happy for the church of god if your friends had never sent you to school . mr. cawdrey had the same opinion of it , and another person , as knowing in the mystery of godliness as either of them , told a friend of mine , that notwithstanding the noise about you , you would end in flesh and bloud : which prophesie , if you go on to write as you have done , will certainly be fulfilled . i know sir , you have very angerly promised me ( as the bishop of worcester did you ) that you will make no reply a but you are so apt to forget your self in greater matters , and have such an itch to be in print , that i will not take your word : and therefore when you write next ( for i presume you cannot be silent ) i intreat only two things from you ; first , that you will be short , for i am quite tired out with your tedious multitude of words , and then , that you will be significant : i mean first , that you will not mistake the thing you write about , but labour clearly to understand the question . do not ramble , and talk of nature , as it is pure , when you should write about nature corrupted . do not discourse about free-will at large , b when you should only handle free will in the things of god : and because many professors of cristianity are ignorant and injudicious , do not think that therefore you do well to call christians , considered as christians so . these are evident and apparent sophismes , which abound in your last treatise , and do discover that your logick is every whit as ungrounded as your divinity . secondly , pray take a little pains to expresse your sence in plain and intellegible language ; and do not love to jumble absurd and insignificant phrases together , as to say , c a defective , faulty , true church : to mention d a political , spiritual , consititutive head. and do not think to excuse your self from writing of nonsence , by saying you meant a thing [d] objectively and not subjectively i and do not make philosophy ridiculous , as you do when you tell us [e] that our acts of knowing exteriour things are , as philosophers affirm , objectively organical , though not efficiently and formally . sir i am sure no wise man talks thus , and it philosophers do , it is time we left them , for they do not speak according to the common sense and reason of mankind , and it must be meerly their obscurity that makes them considerable . lastly , when truth is to be examined , and the nature of a thing strictly to be considered , doe not argue against it , because of some ill consequences , which you fancy will follow : this is a common practice of papists , socinians , and your beloved friends the arminians , whose steps you tread in , and therefore may justly be suspected to own their doctrines , and this ill temper you have discovered , as in other things , so in particular in what you desperately urge against the scriptures being [f] a perfect rule ; which foundation of faith and practice you labour to overthrow , by tragically insisting upon the consequences that will follow , which is just to as much purpose , as if i should deny the revelation of god , concerning himself , his son , his decrees , &c. because i understand them not , and cannot reconcile them to that which i call reason ; sir , this in the end will be found perfect folly and madness , and therefore pray leave it in time , least the lord repove you , and you be found a lyar. i have now done , and you may see sir , by this brief taste , how easie it is for me to defend my self throughout my whole antidote , but i do not see it will be worth my while ; for it is not a lessening of your reputation , that i mainly aim at ; much less at the advancing of mine own upon the ruine of yours ; but i thought the truth of christ was worth my vindicating : and when i saw that your name did stand in the way of it , and that your suffering-brethren had their burthen made heavier , in that your hand helped to lay it on , i thought it my duty to reprove you , and to set your sin ( and error herein ) in order before you : and if ( after all this admonition ) you will still go on , and under pretence of writing for love , doe what you can to keep up a mixed , disorderly , persecuting , and imperfect church state , leaving us no hope nor possibility of reformation ( unless it shall please god by some suddain and unexpected miracle to convert the whole nation at once ) i must then look upon you as one of our greatest dividers and so much the more dangerous , as your pretensions outwardly are the more fair and plausible . the whole design therefore of this letter , is , ( as to others ) to perswade all to look upon you , not only as a fallible , but as a mistaken man , whose name and authority is not fit to be urged when the appeal is made to scripture : and likewise ( as to your self ) my end is , to do what i can to recover you unto the right primitive spirit of christianity ( if indeed you have as yet received it ) or at least to presse you to be looking after it ; and then i am you sure will ( with us ) contend earnestly for the faith , and strive for purity of communion , as the only way to setled peace . you will then make a vast difference between vnavoidable imperfections ( which attend us even in your best and most commanded duties ) and unwarrantable ( because impos'd ) corruption , which is all at present that we separate from ; and however our rulers may deal with us for this ( who think their laws are to be obeyed ) yet we could not but let you know , that from you we deserved better usage ; since you are in the same condemnation , and as much break the present laws in some things , as we do in others . there is therefore one thing that i will confess my error in ; it was my miscalling you learned , judicious , and mortified mr. baxter . sir pray pardon me this , for it is a great untruth , indeed the only one ( though you take no notice of it ) which you can justly charge me with ; i will promise not to offend in the like kind again , but yet remain , sir , ready to serve you in all christian offices of love. edw. bagshaw tuttle-street . first month , or march , , . a postscript . sir , since the finishing of my letter to you , i received the two following papers , the one written by mrs. — of worcester , the other from my brother brown , whom you unhandsomly and untruly reflect upon in your last treatise ; i intreat you to read what they say in defence of themselves , which i have taken liberty without their knowledge to send to you , that whatever you doe to me , yet to them you might not deny this just satisfaction , of making a recantation for the unseemly abuses you have put upon them — your words are these , i intreat you and the reader to get and read a book published by mr. brown , ( as is uncontrouledly affirmed , who lately wrote against mr. tombes against the lawfulness of communion in parish churches ) concerning the experiences and strange work of god on a gentlewoman in worcester , whom i will not name , because yet living , and god may recover her , but is there well known ; this gentlewoman having been long vain , and a constant neglecter of publick worship , was suddenly moved to go into the church while i was there preaching on rom , . . the very text struck her to the heart ; but before the sermon was done she could hardly forbear crying out in the congregation : she went home a changed person , resolved for a holy life . but her affection or passion being strong , and her nature tender , and her knowledge small , she quickly thought that the quakers lived strictlier then we , and fell in among them . at last perceiving them vilifie the ministry and the scripture , her heart smote her , and she forsook them , as speaking against that which by experience she had found to do her good ; and desiring to speak with me , who lived afarr off , opened thus much to me . but all these deep workings and troubles between the several wayes , did so affect her , that she fell into a very strong melancholy ; insomuch that she imposed such an abstinence from meat upon her self , that she was much consumed , and so debilitated as to keep her bed , and almost famished . mr. brown and others were her instructers , who were very zealous for the way called the fifth monarchy , and having instructed her in those opinions , published the whole story in print , ( which else i would not have mentioned ) i shall say nothing of any thing which is otherwise known , but desire the reader that doth but understand what melancholy is , better than the writers did , to read that book , and observe with sorrow and pity , what a number of plain effects of melancholy , as to thoughts , and scriptures ; and actions : are there ascribed to meer temptations on one side , and to gods unusual or notable operations on the other side ! some passages out of mrs. — of worcesters letter to a friend in london . dear brother , as touching mr. baxter , i refer you to my brother browns letter unto mr. bagshawe , with this intimation , that as it relates to my self , i am perfectly unconcerned ; it is a small matter for me to be judged of mans day ; yet i cannot but wonder that one of mr. baxters profession should dare to open his mouth against the operations of the holy spirit in the soul , the remembrance of which is still sweet to me , and causeth me to cry out , oh! how exceeding excellent is thy loving kindness , thou god of grace , what was i poor silly nothing , polluted dust , that thou shouldst chuse me , bring me to his foot , give me to find shadow against the scorching beams under christ , and fill me with joy and peace through believing . and if this be the effect of melancholy ; i would tell mr. baxter , it is such an effect , as i must magnifie the grace of the lord for ever for . and this confirms me , that the lord comforted and lifted up , my lost , forlorn , castdown , and almost overwhelmed soul , in that usual path , in which he walks , administring comfort to his poor benighted ones , viz. the sealing his love by his spirit in a word of promise , which i am sorry mr. baxter should be found deriding of . but god will vindicate the work he hath wrought , though men pour contempt upon it , unto whom i commit it : but that brother brown was the author of that book , that i was suddenly moved to go to hear mr. baxter , that ought of his sermon had any impression upon me ( which i could not attend to , because i was so terrified with the words of the text , rom. . . that i went away resolved upon a holy life ( when indeed i came into company , thinking thereby to ease and deliver my self from the trouble which had seized me , which i mention with self abhorrence and admiration of the rich grace of god ) that brother browne instructed me in the fifth monarchy principle ( whereas he then opposed it ) that i imposed abstinence upon my self as to meat ( when i would gladly have eaten but durst not , because i apprehended i had no right to the creature , being out of christ ) this is all false and untrue , and i am astonished that mr. baxter should with so much confidence affirm these things ; the lord pardon and humble him . some passages out of mr. brown's letter . dear brother , i have some time since perused mr. baxters two last treatises , which ( to speak modestly ) give great occasion to the adversaries of truth and purity , to reproach and blaspheme god and his people , and have caused great grief of heart to many that truly fear him ; and this is no more ( for the substance of it ) than some of mr. baxters own disciples have suggested to me . in his last ( entituled , a defence of the principles of love ) he severely chargeth you , but you need not be over solicitous , for those that know the complexion and temper of the man , who writes thus , will wait to see your defence , before they believe you guilty of so many gross vntruths ; especially since i can prove mr. baxter ( even while he thus condemns you ) to be guilty himself of uttering many falsities both of my self and of others . i will not conceive my self concern'd with what he speaks part. . p. . touching his dispute with mr. brown , an army chaplain ( which i never was ) about the godhead of christ [ which i ever owned . ] that person was another of the same name , whom i never knew , and his principles , so far as i have understood them , opposing the doctrine of the gospel , i utterly detest ; so that all wherein i may by any be supposed to be concerned , is , what he mentions , pag. , . part. d. first , that i am the author of that treatise [ mentioned by him , as written against mr. tombe ] against the lawfulnesse of communion with parish churches : this is more than mr. baxter or any of his informers can prove : and were he able , yet i think his mentioning of it , when in that place , there is not the least occa wsion for it , is scarce becoming those principles of love and charity he is so great a pretender to . whether i writ the book or not , i conceive it not requisite to give him an account ; for i should be unwilling to trust one with a secret , who will , it seems , when the humor takes him , publish to the world , what he cannot , dares not , swear is true , although occasion be thereby given , to such as are no backward to lay hold upon every such opportunity , utterly to ruine the person of whom he reports it . i shall only add , that , whoever the author was , i see no cause to disown any thing considerable in that book : and when mr. baxter shall undertake a through discussion of the arguments contained in it , not like a dictator , but as an humble modest christian , i will either publickly recant what i have now affirmed , or in meeknesse debate it with him , provided he doth more candidly represent arguments , than he hath done many of yours , & particularly , that about idolatry , in which you give the general sense of all the protestants , almost , that have writ upon the second command , who do universally reduce to it , as forbidden there , whatever is added , or devised by men in the worship of god. so that how the present conformises can be excused from some degree of idolatry , remains to be better proved , than to call all those , that fear this of them ignorant , rash , and self-conceited . this in another would be railing ; perhaps mr. baxter thinks it rethorick , religion i am sure it is not ; nor will it be accounted so by those that conceive of god , as holy and jealous , and therefore dare not join in any thing which he hath not commanded , lest he should charge folly and sin upon them for doing ignorantly they know not what . more may be said , but in this point , i shall leave mr. baxter to you , and if you do not take notice of his perverting his adversaries arguments , and imposing upon them a strange new sense of his own , if you do not reprove him for his vanity , in making men of straw , and then unmercifully fighting against them , as if he took a pleasure in demolishing the work of his own hands ; if you do not observe and call him to an account for this , you will much wrong your cause , and deceive my expectation of you . to come more closely to my self , he informs us , that i am the author or publisher of a book , concerning the experiences and strange work of god , upon a gentlewoman in worcester , and that i am uncontrouledly affirmed so to be . give me leave to tell you sir , that i cannot but wonder at the unparallel'd confidence of the man ; should he be any longer suffered to take this liberty without controul , i might be supposed , for ought i see , to cumber the world with as many books , ( & perhaps to as little purpose ) as some body else : for indeed sir , in two lines , there are no lesse than two untruths . ( i may i hope use mr. baxters word ) published to the vvorld concerning me . the first , that i am the author and publisher of that book , which is affirmed by him against the most notorious evidence in the vvorld to the contrary . the author mr. timothy jordain , a precious servant of the lord , and now at rest with him , subscribed his name to the book , and in the epistle prefixed , owns , and avows himself to be the author and publisher of it ; and all that i did , was ( being desired ) to write an epistle , wherein i acquaint the reader that i am not the author of it , but only did joyn in testimony to signifie what was recorded in the ensuing treatise was true . the second vntruth is , that i am uncontrouledly affirmed so to be , when i believe mr. baxter hath never a second in the vvorld , that either will or can affirm it . as for the book it self , and the matter of fact contained in it , i never yet met with any judicious , sober christian , ( that hath seriously perused it ) who durst adventure to pronounce either of the whole , or any considerable part of it , that it was an effect of melancholy . sir , one of the great designs of the devil at this day , seems to be to drive men into direct atheism , ; and there are many too just complaints of its prodigious encrease in the nation . whether this decrying of experiences , this slighting the work of gods spirit in the soul , the crying out that these things are but the effects of melancholy , be not the ready way to make all supernatural conversion derided , and the whole mystery of godliness contemned , i leave it with you to consider . that i was this gentlewomans instructer in the fifth monarchy principle , and that i was very zealous for it , are two more untruths ; for i was neither zealous for that principle , nor her instructer ; but i did at that time ( ignorantly ) oppose her in it ; though indeed now it is my opinion , that there is a glorious state of the church yet to come ( before the last end of all things ) when all oppression and oppressors shall cease , and every thing of man shall be laid down in a subserviency io the interest of christ , and the kingdoms of the world shall become his ; which point i am ready to discourse with mr. baxter , when ever he shall think fit to doe it . he is also lamentably mistaken in the account he gives of the lords dealing with the gentlewoman , of which i shall give you a few remarks , he tells us — first , that she was suddainly moved to come to hear him preach , whereas she went ( having been long sick after child bearing ) in the accustomed formall manner that others were wont to do . secondly , that she had such convictions from his sermon ( for so he seems to intimate ) that she went home resolved for an holy life ; whereas she heard little or nothing of his sermon , it was the reading of the text , rom. . . that struck her heart ; yet she wrestled against her convictions , and would gladly have got from under them , and for that end went into the company of some friends , thinking to forget them . thirdly , that she desired to speak with him is another untruth ( a mistake is too soft a word ) for she was hardly prevailed with to go to a neighbours house to discourse with him . fourthly , that she did impose upon her self an abstinence from meat ; she would gladly have eaten , and attempted it several times , but being under the sence of her own vileness and unworthiness , supposing she had no interest in the lord , and so no right to the creature ( through the cunning of him that lyes in wait to destroy ) she durst not eat . lastly , she never fell in so among the quakers as to be one of them ; though it is true , through the power of temptation , she was somewhat enclined to them . but from them was marvellously recovered , as is intimated in the fore-mentioned treatise ; and now she remains at as great a distance from them and their principles , as master baxter himself ; nay ( if i understand his principles ) at a far greater : being fixed in following after the lord and his teachings in and by the scriptures : and i hope , and am perswaded , that , after all her shakings , tryals and temptations , god will for ever establish her here . dear brother , i am sorry that i have given you this trouble , but love to the truth , to the interest of the lord , and to mr. baxters soul ( whom i pray the lord to forgive and humble ) hath compelled me ; i leave it to your wisdom to make use of it , as you judge may be most conducing to those forementioned ends , &c. an advertisement to the christian reader . it will i believe easily pass for a commendation of mr. baxter's wit ( though but little of his honesty ) that after he hath writ so much against both the king and bishops , he hath yet such easie access now to the licensers and press , that he can print two books , before another can publish a few sheets in answer to one ; but his last book about the sabbath , ( besides that it might have wholly been spared ( dr. owen having judiciously , and accurately handled that question before him ) doth make so full a discovery of mr. baxters spirit , in pleading for saints-days , ( that is , for will-worship ) and in atheistically arguing against the divine and self-evidencing authority of the holy scripture , ( which he doth for many pages together a ) that , henceforth i hope he will no longer be a snare , but justly be rejected of all , as one of the worst sort of hereticks ; since under the notion of being a christian , and a protestant , he doth with his utmost industry and cunning labour to overthrow our foundation , in that he , puts the credit of scripture , upon the truth of history , and denyes any certainty , but what may be gathered from that ; which dangerous doctrine i could not but warn thee , christian reader , as thou lovest thy peace and comfort , as well as the truth of christ , that thou wilt diligently beware of ; and i must leave it to thee to judge , whether that conformity , which such a person pleads for , is not justly to be suspected . edw. bagshaw . d. month , or may , . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e (a) part . p. , , . (b) pag. . p. . part . p. , . (c) par. . p. , . p. . p. , . (d) p. . (e) holy common-wealth , pa. , . (f] pag. . last book part . pag. , . [g] part . pag. , [h] cure pag. . common-wealth p. , . k bish . of worcest . letter . l animad versions on bishop of worc. letter . [b] part . p. . . . . [c] holy common-wealth , p. , . [d] pag. , , . part . [e] part p. . . . [f] part pag. . [g] part . pag. . [h] part ● p. . [i] part . p. . [k] premonition to the saints rest [l] part . pag , . [m] part . pag. . [n] premonition to the saints rest . [o] part . p. . , & , . [p] part . p. . [q] part . p. , [r] part . p. . lecture on john . lecture on john . a part . p. , . preface to the disputations . b part . p. . part . p. . a part . p. . a part. d . p. . b part. d . p. . c part. . pag. . d part . pag. . [d] part . p . [e] part . p. . [f] part . p. , . notes for div a -e part d . p. notes for div a -e a p. . to .