The schismatick sifted. Or, The picture of Independents, freshly and fairly washt-over again. Wherein, the sectaries of these times (I mean, the principall seducers to that dangerous and subtile schisme of Independency) are with their own proper pensils, and self-mixed colours, most lively set forth to be a generation of notorious dissemblers and sly deceivers. Collected (for the most part) from undeniable testimonies under their own hands, in print; for the more fair and full satisfaction, and undeceiving of moderate and much misled Christians; especially by the outward appearance of their piety of life, and a pretence of their preaching sound-doctrine. / By John Vicars. Vicars, John, 1579 or 80-1652. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A95897 of text R200902 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E341_8). 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This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A95897) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 113660) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 55:E341[8]) The schismatick sifted. Or, The picture of Independents, freshly and fairly washt-over again. Wherein, the sectaries of these times (I mean, the principall seducers to that dangerous and subtile schisme of Independency) are with their own proper pensils, and self-mixed colours, most lively set forth to be a generation of notorious dissemblers and sly deceivers. Collected (for the most part) from undeniable testimonies under their own hands, in print; for the more fair and full satisfaction, and undeceiving of moderate and much misled Christians; especially by the outward appearance of their piety of life, and a pretence of their preaching sound-doctrine. / By John Vicars. Vicars, John, 1579 or 80-1652. [8], 41, [1] p. Printed for Nathanael Webb, and William Grantham, at the Grey-hound in Pauls Church-yard., London: : 1646. Annotation on Thomason copy: "June 22th". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Sects -- England -- Early works to 1800. Congregationalism -- Early works to 1800. Church polity -- Early works to 1800. Great Britain -- Church history -- 17th century. A95897 R200902 (Thomason E341_8). civilwar no The schismatick sifted. Or, The picture of Independents, freshly and fairly washt-over again.: Wherein, the sectaries of these times (I mea Vicars, John 1646 22799 21 0 0 0 0 0 9 B The rate of 9 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the B category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-06 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-11 Elspeth Healey Sampled and proofread 2007-11 Elspeth Healey Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE SCHISMATICK SIFTED . OR , The Picture of INDEPENDENTS , Freshly and Fairly Washt-over again . Wherein , the Sectaries of these Times ( I mean , the principall Seducers to that dangerous and subtile Schisme of Independency ) are with their own proper Pensils , and Self-mixed Colours , most lively set forth to be a Generation of notorious Dissemblers and fly Deceivers . Collected ( for the most part ) from undeniable Testimonies under their own Hands , in Print ; for the more fair and full satisfaction , and undeceiving of moderate and much misled Christians ; especially by the outward appearance of their Piety of Life , and a pretence of their Preaching sound-Doctrine . By JOHN VICARS . For Sions sake , I cannot hold my peace . ISAIAH , 62. 1. Now I beseech you , Brethren , mark them which cause Divisions and Offences , contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them . For , These , that are Such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ , but their own belly ; And by good words and fair speeches , Deceive the Simple . ROM. 16. 17 , 18. London : Printed for Nathanael Webb , and William Grantham , at the Grey-hound in Pauls Church-yard . 1646. To the Right Honourable , and most worthily to be highly honoured THOMAS ADAMS , Esquire ; Lord Major of the most famous and renowned City of LONDON ; I. V. prayeth all encrease of Gracious Honour , here and of Glorious Happinesse , hereafter . Right Honourable : IT was the sad and unhappy complaint of the Prophet Jeremy in his dayes , and in that ungracious and ungratefull City , Jerusalem ; That no man among them was valiant for the Truth . Jer. 9. 3. Nay , the Lord himselfe , by the same Prophet , seeming to be , as it were , transported with holy indignation and just jealousie of neglect of his honour , and worship , bids them Run to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem , to see and seek if they could find any one man that loved the Truth . Jer. 5. 1. Yea , this penury of pious men was not only among the poor and mean men , Ver. 4. But even among the Great Men and Rulers of Jerusalem , ver. 5 But , ô the honour and happinesse of this most famous , faithfull and ever renowned City of London ! This City of our God , of which ( most justly ) so many glorious Things are , and may , and must be spoken , to the Glory of God , and honour thereof ! Over which , such a renowned and religious , such a valiant and vertuous Governour is set ( verifying that of the Prophet , Nah. 2. 3. ( though there , Iconfess , spoken in another sense : ) That our valiant men are in Scarlet , even your good Lordship , who have bin , as it were , purposely placed and appointed by God himselfe for these times ; and who are so valiant and couragious for the Truth of your God , and the glorious work of Gospell Reformation , as cannot be dampt or daunted with any vaporous and seeming Eclipsing Clouds of unworthy Disgusts raised by the selfish and elfish Envy of Schismaticall spirits , which of late have , only , passed over the faire face and cleer Sun-shine of your Honours Piety and Integrity ; For with unvanquishable Valour and Vigour of Zeal for God and his Truth , ( like a pious Patriot , indeed ) your Honour hath most gravely and graciously dispell'd them all , standing still , like an immoveable , invincible , and impregnable Rock ; or rather running on , like the active Sun in the Firmament with so much the more resplendent Beauty , and radiant Lustre , in a sweet and swift course of Constant Piety and Magnanimity , for the advancement of the immaculate Cause of your God , and the Common-wealth , to the high honour of God , and singular joy and comfort of all the true Presbyterian Saints and Sons of our English Sion , both in City and Country . Ride on prosperously , then , ( my most honourable good Lord , ) in the Cause of Truth and Righteousnesse , backt with the sacred Suffrages and faithfull Affections of very many thousands of most peaceable honest-hearted and God-honouring Covenanters , both in City and Country , yea , even of a whole Nation of loyall and loving Scottish-Brethren , who , with us , most justly look for and long for the happy and holy consummating of a glorious Reformation of the Kingdoms Grievances , and establishment of a blessed Church-Discipline , according to the Minde of our great Master Christ Jesus , and the plain literal meaning of our sacred solemne Covenant . And hence ( my honourable good Lord ) I have bin humbly bold ( emboldened by your Honours much experienced candor and courtesie toward me , the meanest and most unworthy of all your Lordships Votaries ) to dedicate this little , but , I hope , very necessary and usefull Treatise ( considering these seducing staggering and unstable-times ) as a small Symbol , and though poore and plain , yet true Tessera of my bounden Gratitude , to your Honours pious Patronage : Thus , I say , both , to take fit occasion to manifest my obliged hearts Thankfulnesse for your Lordships many most free and friendly favours ; As also , by this , though succinct , yet sincere discovery of the sly and subtile Dissemblers and Deceivers of our dayes , and consequently the mayn molesters and disturbers of the happy settlement of a godly Church-Government among us ; As also thus to adde , at least , one small stick to encrease the flame ( though I am confident I need not ) of your good Lordships godly zeale in this glorious work , so much and so maliciously opposed by the impious and impudent Sectaries of these most sadly distracted Times . Which , humbly hoping your Honour will with accustomed Christian candor , and exuberant friendly favour , candidly accept ; The continued , yea perpetuated Encrease of all Honour and Happinesse to your good Lordship , in this your renowned Majoralty , and to the period of your pious Pilgrimage , shall be the daily devoted prayers of Your Honours most humble and eve● to be commanded , observant Servant in the Lord , John Vicars . To the godly and impartiall READER . THe great dishonour ( good Reader ) which I have frequently observed to be done to my God , in the abuse of his Truth ; and the strange cockering of Errours and Schismes , by Truths too violent and virulent Adversaries and Antagonists : Together with the familiar vilifying and extream undervaluing of Truths loyall Presbyterian Propugnators , and the most unreasonable high esteeme and loud and lofty Elogies which the foolish World falsly and fondly blatters forth in prayse of Schismaticall Independents , and the rest of these Times most seditious and dangerous Sectaries , whose great ( and yet most just ) unhappinesse it is , that they cannot mayntain any thing ( for the most part ) of what they schismatically professe , but by grosse untruths , brainsick Enthusiasmes , fictitious New-Lights , aliàs , old-blasphemous Errours , and too often by down-right-lyes . All these respects , I say , have made mee ( the meanest and most unworthy of ten thousand of my godly Presbyterian-Brethren ) in fervent Zeal to God and his Truth , and in pure love and loyalty to her faithfull Presbyterian Friends , thus ( according to my Talent ) to set Pen to paper , and ( with as much faithfulnesse as resolved freedome ) with their own hands to stop the mouths , and with their own Pens to give a check to the untrue Tongues of these so high Pretenders to such soundnesse in Doctrine , and Integrity of Life and Conversation , as they themselves and their Schismaticall Scycophants do most frothily and falsly brag and boast them to be . And although I doe ( as I must ) make account , herein , to passe through bad report , as well as good report for this my Pains : yet , so I may bring any honour to God , and his most precious Truth , and adde ( though but a mite of Zeale ) toward the just vindication ( which I have in some measure , in this Treatise endevoured ) of my reverend good Friend , because Truths fast Friend , I mean , learned and religious Mr. Edwards , in his Christian faithfulnesse and godly fervour ( especially in his learned and elaborate Antapologie , That invincible weapon , which hath given our Independent Sectaries such an incurable wound as they will never be able to claw off or heal up ) against these Truths most crafty and calumniating Adversaries ; yet notwithstanding , I say , I passe or care not ( having , I praise my God , that Murum aheneum , the testimony of a good conscience within me ) for all the false and flashy slanders , that Any , or All of them can strugle to asperse and spatter mee with . However , beseeching the Lord that this my poore and honest labour may produce so much good , as either to open the eyes of some pious and plain-hearted Seduced-ones ( as , many such , I am verily perswaded , are among them , who heartily desire to know and love the Truth ) if it be the Lords good pleasure ; or , at last to stablish and confirme the hearts of those that already , really and cordially love the Truth and Peace , and heartily hate Schisme and disorderly Confusion , I rest , Thine to serve thee in the Lord Jesus ; JOHN VICARS . The Names of the five pious Apologists , principally mentioned in this Treatise . Master Thomas Goodwin . Philip Nye . William Bridge . Jeremiah Burroughs . Sidrach Simpson . The Names of the seven religious Remonstrants , mainly also mentioned , in this Work . Master William Greenhill . Thomas Goodwin - Philip Nye . William Bridge . Jeremiah Burroughs . Sydrach Simpson . William Carter . Together with divers other Heads of the Independent Faction . THE SCHISMATICK SIFTED . HAving , not long since , dilucidated and plainly painted forth , to the sight of All ( in my Picture of Independency ) the Basis or Ground of that , as unhappy , as unholy-Schisme of Independency , to be Spirituall-Pride , Self-Seeking , and most grosse Ingratitude to God and Man : And having of late , and long time indeed , had many sad and serious thoughts , What should be the reason of the so constant and great growth of all-Sorts of Sectaries among us , which , as the Superstructure , on that triple-foundation , have ( according to our old Proverb , too true at this time , Ill weeds grow apace ) mightily increased , and grown marvellous rife and ranke in the Garden of God ( for want of serious and seasonable Weeding ) to the great endangering , choking and stifling of the holy and wholsome Herbs and Flowers of Unity , true Peace and Piety ; At last I found by sad and bad experience , that beside the great want of care and sedulity in the Gardiners and Guardians ( under God ) of his Garden , the Church , faithfully and effectually to weed and dresse it , I mean , through the strange impunity and intolerable Toleration of Sectaries and Schismaticks , so out-facingly to flourish and sprout out among us ) beside this , I say , Satan that old Serpentine-seducer , had made use of an old sly Stratagem of his , herein , to wit ; That those pernicious weeds should grow-up , and shoot-forth exceeding like unto most sweet and fragrant Flowers and wholsome Herbs , whereas , indeed , upon proof and experience , being used and smelt unto , they were nothing so , but , contrariwise , exceeding bitter , bad , poysonous and unwholsome . But , to speak Plain-English ( for , since They so crave and cry-out for Liberty of Conscience , to do what they list , unjustly : I hope it is much-more lawfull for mee to desire Liberty or Freedome of speech , ( to speak nothing but truth plainly and honestly ) and to leave allegoricall expressions , and ( if it be lawfull in these doubling days ) to call a Spade a Spade , which I am resolved to do , yet with all possible Christian moderation and godly temper that may be , considering the subject I write of ; I find , I say , that the two mayn Stratagems which Sathan useth , at this time , to cheat & deceive the world , yea , even many of the truly godly-Party ; indeed , and to cause all sorts of Schismes and Errours thus to increase and multiply among us , I mean , especially , that most sly and subtile ( and therefore the most dangerous ) Schisme of Independency ; The two mayn Stratagems , I say , for the more uncontroulable propagation hereof , are ; first , a popular appearance and outward habit of Holinesse , ( if there be any more , I beseech them to let us see it by integer practice ) of Life and conversation ; for , come and talk with any of our moderate ( if not neutrall ) or tender-conscienced even Presbyterians , who ( many of them ) stand , as it were , on tip-toe , wavering which way to stand or fall , and ask them how it comes to passe , and possibly can be , that seeing these Independents , Anabaptists , &c. broach , and preach and practise such dangerous opinions and unwarranted Church-ways ( as they call them ) to the great distraction and disturbance of the godly Peace and tranquility both of Church and State , when we have given them cleer Demonstrations from the fountain of Truth it self , that their ways and opinions are not according to Christ and Scripture-Grounds ; yet , still , there answer is , O , I dare not but think and speak well of them , and hold them to be good Christians , because they walk so holtly and religiously ; And also ( say they , in the second place ) because they preach and teach as sound Doctrines as any of our Presbyterian-Ministers . And thus , I say , upon these two hinges turns the door of Independents growing hopes of impunity , and a continued good opinion , even , I say , among our own Presbyterian Party , whereby , doubtlesse , they are greatly mistaken in them , and , I feare , grosly gulled by them , and , so , wrong the Truth , in countenancing and encouraging her Enemies , and retarding the work of Reformation . For a briefe answer to both which ; though I intend not to enter into a Polemicall Dispute of these things ( which , I know would prove as endlesse as fruitlesse , especially with them who are familiarly known to love to live , Salamander-like , in the fire of hot and heady Disputes ) yet , I trust , by Gods gracious assistance to give the godly , judicious and impartiall Readers such pregnant proofs and Demonstrative and reall testimonies ( and that briefly too ) of the exceedingly to be feared falsity and great mistake of both these , in our Independents and their Brother-Sectaries , that they must in conscience , certainly , confesse the invalidity and weaknesse of their opinions and assertions of them , and see and say , that they are , surely , mistaken in them , and palpably deceived by them . To begin , then with the last of these first ; Whereas it is pretended by some of our own , that they dare not but speak and think well of Independents , because ( as they say ) they preach as sound-doctrines as any of the best-Presbyterians doe : Hereunto I answer , first , in generall ; That although I deny not , but that oftentimes they preach sound-Doctrine ; yet , they frequently intermix much of their own unsavoury and unfound leven of false-Opinions , together with the sound-Doctrines , which they deliver . Witnesse , That vehement , pernicious , yea even most damnable plea for a Toleration of all Opinions and Liberty of Conscience , the high-way to ruinate and destroy all Religion and Conscience ; Together with their most ungodly inveighing against , both in Pulpits and Presses , that godly Church-Discipline , which is regulated , as neere as may be , by Gods sacred Word , and the pattern of the best and most purely Reformed Churches in Europe ; and only crying-up a most licentious , unlimited and Independent-destructive Government of their own ungrounded invention ; Whereby ( by a cleere and undeniable necessary-Consequence ) they most undiscreetly , yea , irreligiously-endevour to overthrow and utterly , I say , to ruinate all sound-Doctrine and pure Truth it self . For , as it cannot be denied by any that the Word of God soundly preached , and the Sacraments purely administred , are Gods Field of Corn , his precious Vineyard , his Garden of fragrant Flowers and wholsome Herbs ; And , as , a wise Gardiner , or provident Husbandman or Vine-dresser , when he hath planted a Garden or Vineyard , or sown a Corn-field , presently takes care to build a wall , or make a strong Fence or Hedge about the same , to preserve them from hurtfull Beasts ; which otherwise would break-in , destroy the Flowers or Grapes , and root up and utterly spoyle the good Corn : So ( although in the first place , it must be most justly granted , as I said before , that sound-doctrines , and the Sacraments rightly administred , are the Garden of God , and do contein the Body and substance of Soul-saving-Truth , as being the Fountain and Foundation thereof ; yet ) it is as true , that godly-order , and Scripture-Discipline , or Church-Government is the Hedge , Wall , or strong-Fence , which God , the most prudent and provident Gardiner or Husbandman , of this his pretious , Garden , Vineyard , or Field of Corn , hath planted and built round about the same , both to keep in safety and security the specious and pretious Flowers , Herbs , Corn , and Grapes , for the pious Professours of his Word and Truth to be nourisht , cherisht and fed by them to eternall-life ; and thus to keep out the noysome and hurtfull wild-beasts and Boars of the Forrest , ( I mean , all sorts of tyrannizing Misbelievers , Hereticks , Papists , and prophane Atheists ) and all crafty Foxes , yea , even the little-Foxes ( I mean , Anabaptists , Antinomians , Independents , Seekers , and such like Libertines , ) who , otherwise , all of them ( this Wall , Hedge , or Fence being pluckt up or taken away ) would soon run in , ruinate and root up and destroy the pretious Corn , fragrant Flowers , and tender Grapes thereof ; even utterly overthrow the Fountain and Foundation of sound-Doctrine , and put in poyson of Errours , and blasphemous and most dangerous , yea , damnable Opinions and Heresies among them , I say to the utter undoing and overthrow of the Foundation or Fountain , even of sound-doctrine and Truth it selfe . This , I conceive , is a most faithfull and undeniable Truth ; and ( though I know all sorts of Sectaries will carp , snap and snarl at it ) shall therefore satisfie me , and may also , ( I think ) satisfie all other godly and moderate Christians , who desire to be wise with sobriety ; But , if it will not , then to come to particulars , and so more closely to the point in hand . Is not , to broach and preach that most wicked and accursed doctrine of Toleration of all Religions ( as I toucht before ) yea , of all Heresies , Errours , Sects and Schismes , under that slie , subtile , ungrounded and most ungodly pretext of Liberty of Conscience , forsooth , is not this , I say , a preaching of false-Doctrine ? Is not the broaching and preaching of the Scripture , not to be the Word of God ? Of the performance of holy Duties and expression of godly sorrow for sin , and penitent praying for forgivenesse of sin ; yea , and the performance of all these with an honest , humble , self-denying and Christ-seeking broken-soul , to be called or counted no better than casting dirt ( as it were ) into Gods face ? Are not all these , my Brethren , together with exceeding many more such like , yea , some far worse ( if it may be ) blasphemous and damnable Doctrines and enormous Opinions , set forth at large by reverend Master Edwards , in his Gangraena , are not all these , I say , palpable Preaching and broaching of false-doctrines ? and , if not all of them , yet many of them preached by our so admired Independents ; and either few or none of all the rest , are at any time preached against ( nay are they not countenanced and encouraged ) by them ? Wherefore , if any shall , still , object and say , That those forementioned dangerous Opinions , and the rest related by Master Edwards are not the Opinions of the more solid and temperate Independents ; but , are the Anabaptists , Antinomians , and such like : I answer , They are moderate and most seeming solid Independents which plead and Preach mightily for Toleration , and Liberty of Conscience , which , most directly are the Inlets , open sluces , and wide-gaps for all the rest to rush and gush in amongst us ; And therefore , distinguish them as you please : and call them what you will , hereof I am most confident ; That though our most moderate and supposed most discreet Independents may seem only in some things to differ and vary , and in their Heads or Brains ( as I may say ) to be somwhat distant from some of the rest of the dangerous Sectaries ; yet are they all like Sampsons Foxes ) fast tyed by their Tayls , with destructive Firebrands of Dissention , Division , and Confusion between them , to destroy ( as much as in them is ) the good-corn of Gods-field , by their most ungodly struglings , studies , plots , and calumnies , to ruinate the Wall , and pluck-up the Hedge or safe Fence , I mean ( as we all too sensibly feel at this day ) to hinder and oppose with all might and malice , power and policy , the Settlement of the godly Government and Scripturall-Discipline of our pious and peacefull Presbyterians . And are these , now , the sound and orthodox men , that are so highly commended and blazoned abroad for their sincerity and soundnesse in Doctrine ? Who , thus dare , so boldly ( yet craftily , I confesse ) broach abroad such false Doctrines , and thus preach and prate against Gods most pure and soul-saving Truths ? Certainly , then , am I mightily mistaken . But , now , to come to the second or other main part of our own Presbyterian friends Common-plea for Independents , & the other cause of their great growth amongst us , viz. their Holines of life , which we have great ground and cause to feare , ( and more than to feare ) is but pretended and in appearance ; which , indeed , is , I say , the main thing I here intend to insist on , and principally to prove against them ( as I have promised ) and that , under their own Hands , by most undeniable testimonies . And , herein , I shall first desire briefly to premise thus much by way of introduction to what is to follow ; namely , that this hath ever been ( even in all ages and times ) Satans old-Cloke , too well known to be almost worne quite thread-bare , by frequent and familiar use among Deceivers . For if we look back to by-past times , and read Ecclesiasticall Histories , we shall most truly know , and unquestionably understand that those grand and grosse Hereticks , and Ring-leaders to dangerous and damnable Heresies , Errors , and Schismes in the Church of God , especially in the Primitive Churches , and former times , as Arrius , Pelagius , Arminius &c. were all of them , men of extraordinary outward holy lives , and ( to see to ) of most integer conversation , even to generall admiration and approbation for their parts and piety , and to the singular love and liking of all the people among whom they then lived ; And yet they were , all of them , most notorious , dangerous , yea damnable Hereticks . And look up also , even to our most blessed Saviours time , and there we shall finde the Scribes and Pharisees to be outwardly , such demurely seeming Saints ▪ such pure and holy persons to see to , that it was an universally received opinion , among all the common-people , the Jews of those times , That if any two men in the world should goe to heaven and be saved , it was a Scribe and a Pharisee ; And yet , by our Saviours own Testimony , These were most notorious dissemblers , deceivers , and horrible hypocrites ; And , indeed , one main foul fault among them also , was , a most vile perverting of the Law , to their own ayms and ends ; and teaching false-doctrines , and their own false glosses and intentions , in stead of sound-doctrine , which very thing made our blessed Saviour himselfe to inveigh most bitterly against them as notorious hypocrites ; as is most evident in all the foure Evangelists . The experience whereof also made the blessed Apostle Paul say ( having found false Apostles in his times also , deceitfull-workers , transforming themselves into the Apostles of Christ ) That it was no marvail , for , Satan , himselfe ( sayes he ) is transformed into an Angel of light . And indeed there is very great politick reason hereof ; for , should not Hereticks and Schismaticks , first , put-on that brave embrodred-cloke of seeming holinesse , to dazle the eyes and understanding of their honest , innocent Proselites ( as I believe many of these to be ) Who I pray that had any light and sight of reason and Religion , would so easily have received their so dangerous Opinions , or damnable Doctrines ? If Satan should at first shew his cloven-foot , and the hornes on his head ( as fools , formerly , were made to believe the Devill had such , to be frighted by them ) who , I say , would not , then fly from him , as , easily discerning him to be a Devill ? So , I say , if Heretical , Erronious , & Schismatical Deceivers should at the very first shew the inside-danger & poyson of their aymes , plots , self-interests and designes intended by their Heresies , errours , and Schismes , who would so easily and instantly entertain them , and be so misled and abused by them ? Therefore , dear Christians take heed , for Gods sake , of being taken with painted pretences of holinesse of life , in any man whatsoever he be : swallow not down , so easily , such gilded-pils ; or catching fish-hooks , which are onely covered-over with deceitfull baits to catch and undoe your poor plain-meaning soules . Believe it , my Christian friends , you try your mettalls by a very false and deceitfull touch-stone , if you look so on mens holy-lives and conversations alone ; nay , rather read , sound , and try men mainly and most especially by their soundnesse of Doctrine ; for , if this fails , all is naught , I 'le warrant you . And that you may see 't is not mine , but the blessed Apostle Paul's judgement , and right rule of tryall , which cannot deceive , marke what he sayes , in two most pertinent places to this purpose . Be yee followers of me , even as I also am of Christ . No farther , or , no otherwise than I folow the Lord Jesus Christ in sound Doctrine and holinesse ; first and principally sound Doctrine , and then holinesse : and to strengthen and back this to be his true meaning , indeed ; observe what this same blessed Apostle , and faithfull servant of the Lord sayes farther . There be some that trouble you , and would pervert the Gospel of Christ . But if either We ( even any of us Apostles , though ever so holy ) or an ANGEL from heaven ( for seeming sanctity or holinesse ) preach any other Gospel ( or pretended truths ) than that which we have preached to you , let him be accursed to you . See here a time Touch-stone , indeed , my friends , see first , to soundnesse of Doctrine , without which , believe not nay , abominate , the seeming holiest men or Angels , even Angelicall-men that may pretend the greatest parts and piety that may be ; But having first , seen , by the right-rule , Gods Word , their Doctrine to be sound , then , on Gods name , search and see into their Sanctimonie and integrity in life and conversation , and then you take the right way indeed , cordially to love and like , to follow , affect and imitate them . Nay , I will bee bold to say and assure , and dare undertake to prove and justifie , by Gods assistance , that , There is far more safety and sweetnesse for the soule to love and like , to follow and imitate , a Christian or Pastor , that is most Sound and Orthodox in Doctrine and Judgement , though subject to weaknesse : and humane infirmities : Than him that seems to be most exact and strict in his outward walking and conversation , if he premeditately and invincibly ( against all perswasions and Scripturall convictions ) goe on in the publike profession of Errors and Schismes ▪ destructive to the peace and edification of Gods Church and Sound Doctrine . But now without any farther digression ( having Thus laid down these most necessary and pertinent premises ) I will by Gods assistance come up close to the promised point , even our present main matter , touching the much boasted Holines of Life , of our Independent Sectaries , & shew how neer they come-up to down-right Deceivers in their reall practice , testified , I say , by their own undeniable hand-writings . And , here , give me leave , good Reader , in the first place for the better making fair way , and that , most briefly , for what follows ) to give unto Thee , and from Scripture it selfe , The perfect Character , Cognizance and Description of a truly Godly-man , a sure , pure Saint , indeed , and sacred Citizen of the New-Jerusalem ; especially , in these two or three remarkable marks of him among divers others , viz. Hee is such an One as speaks the Truth from his heart ; And having thus spoken , promised , or sworn , keeps his promise , though to his own prejudice ; Both These being fully and fairly connected and bound up together , in our blessed Saviours most Royall-Law , and Golden-Rule : Whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , doe yee even so unto them : And then also , doe but consider herewith , what the Spirit of the Lord sayes , concerning the contrary practisers . He that loves or makes a lye , shall be shut out of the New Jerusalem among Dogs , Sorcerers , Whoremongers , Murtherers , and Idolaters . Now , then , I say , if our Independents be found ( and that by testimonies under their own hands ) to be such as speak not the Truth from their hearts ; and when they have promised and covenanted , break their promise and violate their Covenant ( witnessed , I say , by their owne hands against themselves ) yea , and that when as it could be no prejudice to their livelihood , or estates , save only ( perhaps ) to their ungodly private ends ; And such as do That to others , which they would not be content should be done to themselves : Then can any truly-gracious or impartiall Good-man choose but , at least , greatly feare that they are not so holy-Saints & godly men as they should be , or as the World too vulgarly and easily takes them to be ? Truly , me thinks , they cannot . Thus , then , now , to come to the try all hereof ; And , here , I will , by way of preamble , tell the Reader one pretty passage , not altogether impertinent to our present purpose , touching Master Peters & my-self , which briefly was this , I being occasionally ( about-half-ayeer since ) at Westminster-hall , was there encountred by Master Peters , that most Pragmaticall Quicquid in Buccam , &c. of whom I will only say this by the way , That , Whosoever loves to laugh at a Sermon ( which is Satans Musick ) let him go heare Master Peters preach . This Gentleman seeing me singly walking in the Hall , and being my old acquaintance , came unto me , together with his Independent Brother , Master Bachiler , who heard our conference all the while , which was this . O , Master Vicars ( says Master Peters ) certainly , a great deal of repentance must needs lye upon your soule . Why , Master Peters ( said I ) what 's the matter , what have I done ? O ( sayes he ) in sadding and grieving the hearts of Gods Saints , as you have done in your Book , which you call the Picture of Independency . Why Sir , ( said I ) pray tell me what 's amiss in it ? Truly Master Vicars ( says hee ) 't is naught all over , ( just , like my self , he might have added ) Naught all over . Is it naught all over , Master Peters , said I ? then , I hope you have read it all over ; and if so ; then , I beseech you said I ) since , you know , Dolosus versatur in generalibus , The Deceiver loves to deale in Generals , shew so much candor and ingenuity toward me , as to tell me one particular passage therein , which you can make evident to be false or naught , and I assure you ( said I ) I will yeeld you all the rest to be naught without any farther controversie ; whereunto , here was all his reply ; Alas , Master Vicars 't is naught all over , naught all over ; which words he uttering in his old , quick blustering manner , instantly ran away swiftly from me , All , which , his brother Bachiler can testifie ( if he will speake the truth ) to be most true , who stood by , and heard and saw all I have related , from the first to the last . And was not here , thinke you , a brave Independent Champion , fit to finde fault with other mens Works , and then run away , when he should give account of his slanderous words ? But , now , to come to some more serious and sollid matter , and fully to make good and confirme what I have promised and affirmed , in the Frontispice of this Treatise , namely , That Independents ( I meane very many of the best and bravest of them ) are a Generation of notorious Dissemblers , and sly Deceivers . Most sorry I am , the Lord knows , that I can so truly ( indeed too truly ) say and assure these things against them ; but in regard of their so elated and selfe-flated conceit of themselves and others too-too high opinions of them ; and also the great injurie which Gods Cause receives thereby , many ways , Therefore , for Sions sake I cannot hold my peace , & for Jerusalems sake I will not rest , until the righteousnes thereof ( and the unquestionable innocency & integrity of her Presbyterians ) go forth as Brightnesse . And for this end to add my poor Mite of Zeal ( what in me is ) to help to vindicate Gods abused Churches honour , against these her close and subtile enemies , who have made their great and gross untruths as so many Satanicall stratagems and staulking horses , to abuse and disgrace even the godliest partie of the most innocent Presbyterians , by thus suggesting and protesting their palpable untruths to the more moderate , indifferent , and too credulous Presbyterians among us , whereas , themselves ( the Lord knows ) are the main ( if not onely ) offensive and destructiue-partie , and all this , onely to uphold ( for ought that can , to this day , be discerned , to the contrary ) maintain and enlarge their too apparent spirituall-pride , and selfe-aymes and ends , which I conceive to be most vile and ungodly in them . And because Master John Goodwin , in his late supercilious and unsavorie Treatise , Entituled Cretensis , pag. 5. sayes , That Master Edwards ( in his Sectarystinging Gangraena ) judges , so and so , onely of some few ( at least , as hee would have it ) of those that are the Retrimentitious-Party or dregs of the Independents and other Sectaries ( to use his own words and expression ) as if ( sayes he ) a man should judge of Cheap-side , by the dirtie-channel that runs in the midst of it . I therefore , here ( omitting , purposely , the most notorious jugling of M. J. G. himself most properly & fitly termed Cretensis ( that is to say a lyer ) both by himself , and by reverend M. Edwards in his second part of his excellent Gangraena ; and pretermitting also the most unworthy double-dealing of those two Grandees of the Independents , Master Burroughs and Master Greenhill ( and these are none , sure , of Master Goodwins retrimentitious partie ) in their unfaithfull dealing with Master Edwards , as hee hath most fully manifested to the world , against all these three , in his said second part of the Gangraena , pag. 86 , 87 , 88 , &c. ) to omit these I say , as being so fully set forth as aforesaid , I will here in the first place shew to the godly and impartiall Reader , diverse notable passages of some of the most eminent and highest prized Independents , even of the five famous Apologists , most cleerely setting forth , and that under their own hands , their most unfaithfull and deceitfull dealings with God and the world , and with their Presbyterian-Brethren . Which I have extracted , and briefly culled-out from their so mightily magnified , and broadly bosted of Apologeticall Narration , attested and avouched under their own hands , of purpose ( as they , certainly , conceived and wee have justly deemed ) to paint out their own Piety , and unspotted Integrity to the World : Whereas , contrariwise they have , thereby , even with their own pensils , blazoned abroad their own shame , and most unfaithfull double-dealing . First , then , I will begin with that poor delusive trick of theirs , of their pretended ( falsely so called ) Exile or Banishment out of England , which they themselves set forth In prima fronte libelli , in the very front and face of their Apologie , to make the world take notice of that first and fair piece of their Martyrdome , and to believe what rare suffering-Saints and Martyrs they were , insuffering , so sorely , for their tender-conscience sake . This you shall see Apol. Nar. pag. 2 & 3 Where they tell you of their pitteous banishment , forsooth ; But , withall , fairely confesse it was a spontaneous or voluntary banishment , a banishment of their own choice and election , both for Time , Place , and Company , ( and I may add , as easily undergone as undertaken ) for , they went into the choicest and fattest parts of all beautifull Holland , no way pincht in body or purse ; for ( as reverend Master Edwards notes in his learned Antapologie , and at large , most notably sets forth ) they were able ( some of them ) to spend two or three hundred pounds a year , and to doe other expensive acts besides . They went , I say , in their own time , were fitted with all conveniences for themselves and their families ; had brave company with them , Gentlefolke of none of the meanest rank and quality ; and yet These call themselves Gods poor Exiles , or poor despicable , banished creatures : Which , how fairly and fitly , let any godly judicious . Christian , or even meer rationall creature which knows what Banishment is , speake and judge by those forementioned premises . And now tell mee , good Reader , whither these our Independents be such fair dealers and truth speakers as the world deems them , and as the Spirit of God would have them to be , according to the forementioned Characters of the true Saints and Citizens of the New Jeruselem . Again , In their foresaid Apologeticall Narration , pag. 5 & 6 , they have these very words . For the Congregations in England ( where , we were by the grace of Christ converted , ( mark this ) and long exercised our Ministry ) both in our own , and multitudes of the Assemblies and Parochiall-Congregations thereof ( mark again those words good Reader ) we make this sincere profession before God and all the world ( mark here again I beseech thee ) that notwithstanding all the defilements which we conceived to cleave to the true worship of God in them , or of the unwarranted power in Church Government exercised therein ; yet we ever esteemed and held this opinion of them , That they were the true Churches and Bodie of Christ , and that the Ministers thereof were true Ministers , much lesse did it ever enter into our hearts to judge them Antichristian : yea , wee always have protested that in these times ( pray marke these words well ) when the Churches of England were most actually over-spread with defilements , and in the greatest danger thereof , We both did and would hold a communion with them , as the Churches of Christ , and baptized our Children , and administred the Lords Supper in their Parochiall Congregations , and all this both before and since our returne from our foresaid exile . Now , then , from all these premises , see and consider seriously , good Reader , The Independents most unjust and injurious Separation from us , even under their own hands testified , and by such a deep and seeming-serious Protestation , to God and the whole World protested against themselves ; wonderfull strange it is ( me thinks ) that truly , holy , and godly men should dare to deale thus , in so sacred and serious things ; nay those premises , touching our Churches or Congregations and Ministers , being so granted by themselves , how most ungodlily and ungroundedly doe they now , and long time have forsaken our Assemblies , as Antichristian , and creep into corners , shops and chambers , and now adayes also some of their Schismaticall brethren are not ashamed most impiously and most unjustly to preach , print , and prate against us and our Assemblies directly under such notions , even as if we were abominable Babylonians and Antichristians . Now truly my Brethren , if this be to deale ingenuously , and to speake the truth from the heart , as becomes the truly godly Saints and Citizens of the New-Jerusalem specified before to be Davids Character of a godly man , let any impartiall Christian judge and determine . Again , In the same Apologeticall Narration , pag. 24 & 25 , Those five Apologists and Grandees of the Independent faction , Yea , those high-grown Sauls that are taller then any of their Presbyterian-Brethren , by head and shoulders in parts and piety ( if we would believe the loud boasts of their Sycophanticall Proselites ) have these very words , in that foresaid place , evident to all that have eyes and understanding and wills , to see and read the same , viz. Wee call God and men to witnesse , ( see how they here begin again with a deep asseveration ) that through the grace of Christ , our spirits are , and have been so remote from a spirit of faction , division , pride , and singularity ( which are the usuall grounds of all Schismes ) that we have expressed our constant forbearance , either to publish our opinions by preaching ( although wee had the pulpit free ) or to print any thing of our own or others for the vindication of our selves ( although the Presses also were more free than the pulpits . ) Marke good Reader , I beseech thee , these their own words , and yet consider , how that most insolent and proud-spirited man Mr. Lilburn , in his most flashy and foul-mouthed Letter , to ever to be honored Mr. Prinne , complains of the restraint of Printers-presses , as a peece of their persecution forsooth , pag. 2 of his said Letter ) or to act for our selves , or for our way . All these foresaid particular branches of their protested forbearance , were , indeed , by them , and the Presbyterian City Ministers mutually covenanted to be done on both sides , but how faithfully , religiously and conscienciously they have kept and observed the same , ( yea , notwithstanding their protesting before GOD and men , neither to write , preach , dispute , or any way to act for themselves or their Church-way , and all this , thus promised , since their last returne into England , from their fore-mentioned pretty piece of Banishment ) now we will see and discover , I say , how faithfully and fairly they have kept their word and engagement herein . Although , 't is most true that learned and religious Master Edwards hath in his elaborate Antapologie given his impartiall and unprejudiced Reader aboundant satisfaction touching these things , and I might here multiply many testimonies from thence of our Independents self-condemnation touching the premises : yet because I maynly endevour brevity in this little Treatise , I will content my self with these few following most true and undeniable self-confutations extant there in Print under their owne hands ; namely , that , even , not all these Apologists ( who have thus protested , as yee have heard ) have not , according to their so deep Protestation before God and Men , forborn to Preach or Print any thing of their own in the behalf of their Church-way . First , then , take Master Burroughs his self-conviction herein ; Who , in his Sermons and Expositions on the three first Chapters of Hosea , hath Preached and Printed severall things about and for their Church-way . As , for example ; In his first Lecture on Hosea the second , at , 1 , 2 p. 224 , 225. And the seventh Lecture , Hos. 1 , at , 11 , p. 173. And thirteenth Lecture on Hos. 2 , 15. Together with many other places in those his Lectures , now extant , in Print . Secondly , Master Simpson , another of these so deep Protesters , as aforesaid ; In his Sermon called Reformations Preservation , on Isaiah 4 , 5. And on Proverbs 8. 15 , 16. hath , there , many things for their Church-way , and for a Toleration , p. 25 , 26. 27. of those Sermons . Thirdly , also , Master Bridge , another of them , in his Sermons , Printed and published and entituled , Babylons Downfall ; And , that on Zech. 1 , at 18 , 19 , 20 , & 21. Together with many other , to be seen , in Master Edwards his most excellent Antapol . afore-said ; But this Truth being thus confirmed under the hands of three such eminent proofs and testimonies I think , it may give sufficient satisfaction herein ; Besides , the very many other Books and Pamphlets . Printed and reprinted for their Church-way , since this Parl. began , and since there Covenant made to the Contrary , all which for brevities sake , I say , and to avoid tediousnes , I willingly pretermit , and will not so much as mention , as , indeed , I need not , they being so notoriously known ( or may be known ) abroad to all that know ought herein . And as for their other kinds of acting , by themselves and others , in and for their Church-ways advantage and advancement , I shall , I say , to avoid prolixity referre the Reader , to the learned Antapologie , p. 220 , 221 , &c. very worthy the reading for abundant cleer satisfaction in these premises . Only I cannot forbeare to give thee one particular instance more hereof , which may ( mee thinks ) be Instar omnium , to shew to the World their faithlesse craft and subtilty , yea , and most palpable Double-Dealing with their single-hearted Presbyterian Brethren , and thus , according to my promise , to let all men see ( that will not obstinately shut their eyes against such cleer and known truths ) what a godly-party and what holy-Saints these Independents are . The thing in brief , is this . About the beginning of the second yeer of the sitting of the Parliament , The Presbyterian Pastors , in London , and the Independents , met together , at reverend and religious Master Calamies House in Aldermanbury , where , with mutuall consent , they all entred into an engagement one party to the other , That ( for advancing of the publike Cause of a happy Reformation ) neyther side should Preach , Print , or Dispute , or otherwise act against others way ; And this to continue til both sides , in a full meeting , did declare the contrary , and by mutuall consent set each other at liberty , touching these things . And for the confirmation of this agreement , a Writing or Instrument was drawn , with full and cleer desire and assent of all , and also by all , there and then present , it was subscribed with every mans name ; And , this so done , was with a generall consent to be left , and so to abide , with Master Calamy , at his House , there to be seen at any time , by any of them that would have recourse unto it , to shew and see their agreement , all which was accordingly done , and this Writing or Instrument was left in Master Calamies custody . Heere , now , let me hint this to the Reader , by the way ; That , notwithstanding this Writing or Instrument of this their so solemne agreement ; no , nor their own fore-mentioned Protestation of their own voluntary forbearance , so deeply ( but deceitfully ) professed and protested , in their Apologie , to be so sacred unto them , & to be kept so strictly by them , with such deep silence ( for , these are their very words ) All these , I say , notwithstanding , they , in the interim , immediatly after , went on , in a too evident cōtrary practice , as hath bin before sufficiently declared ; and all these their Protestations proved the most advantageous Piece of Policy , on their side , of any one that was , or could be done by them for the increasing of a Party for them . Just like the Declarations set forth by King CHARLES ( by means of the crafty Bishops , in their late flourishing and domineering times ) that their should be no Disputes , no Preaching or Printing on either side , for or against the Arminian-points , which then were in great controversie : Which Declarations and Inhibitions , being observed by many Ministers , but not so , by the Arminian-faction , was a mighty means to increase them , and to suppresse Orthodox-Doctrines . Even so , I say , it fell out , heer , for , by this means of the Agreement , nothing was Preached or Printed , or any way acted against their way , according to the foresaid agreement to hinder the growth of Independents , on our side , Ours making conscience most honestly and tenderly of their engagement . But , in the mean time , I say , many things were both Preached and Printed for it , as I have touched before ; which , if it were not apparent unfaithfulnesse and plain Double-dealing , I know not what is . But now to come to this notable trick of theirs , acted by Master Philip Nye , that notable Independent-Politician , and nimble-Agent for their Schismaticall Church-way , which was this . The fore-mentioned Writing or Instrument of the mutuall Agreement between the Presbyterian and Independent parties , being as aforesaid , left in the hands of reverend Master Calamy , by him to be kept and shewn and seen as occasion was offered ; It so fell out , that Master Nye came , one day , to Master Calamy , and pretended some reasons for his desire to see and borrow this Writing of him for a little while ; whereupon , good Master Calamie , in his courtesie and singlenesse of heart , suspecting nothing amisse , but thinking he meant fairly , and would bring it again presently , as he had promised , let him have it . But he , after he had it , carried it away with him into Yorkeshire , that so upon any complaints of the breach of the agreement when ours should have consulted with that writing , or shewn it against them , and brought their own hands subscribed thereunto , the Writing was gone , and nothing now to shew against them ; As for conscience , they ( as it seem'd ) car'd not a rush for it ( no marvell , then , that they so cry out and plead for ( Liberty of conscience ) for , this Master Nye hath ever since kept away this Writing , and having been often intreated to restore it , his answer still hath been , that hee left it at Hull among his other papers . This Truth , is also fully related by reverend and faithfull Master Edwards , in his learned and most excellent Independent frighting Antapologie , and is backt also by the unquestionable testimony of our most grave and godly Assembly of Divines , in their most excellent Answer to the seven Independents most false and scandalous Remonstrance , lately printed and published by the Independents for the honour , forsooth of those seven Authours thereof ; but which in the issue turned to their most just eternall , indelible dishonour . And are not these , then ( my deare Presbyterian friends ) most soule blots and blemishes in so godly apartie , so gracious and holy Saints , so cryed-up , rare Christians , as Independents are now a dayes hugely boasted to be ? Doe these their practises , in word and deed answer to the Characters of Davids holy Citizens of the New-Jerusalem , To speake the truth from their hearts , and to keepe their promise though to their prejudice ? Or , are they like our blessed Saviours plain-dealing honest men , indeed , Doing unto others , as they would bee done unto ? I know not , truly I cannot thinke they are . But to goe on , and to make their unfaithfull dealings , yet more evident and apparent to the whole world , and that , still , even under their own hands ; I shall now therefore , here , briefly add some few passages of their most gross double-dealing & unblushing slandering of the reverend and religious Assembly of Divines , in a most scandalous Remōstrance of theirs touching a promised model of their New Church way , most marvellously brag'd and boasted of , to be Christs onely true and pure way of governing his Church , and for the answerable production whereof they had been exceeding often and most earnestly urged and intreated , both by the reverend Assembly , and by the religious Pastors of London ; but , wherein all along from the first to this day they dealt most doubly , falsly and fallaciously . For even as at the first , when this often and urgent motion was made to them to bring in a Modell of their Church-Government in Writing to the Assembly , & they accordingly promised it ; They were so far from faithfull performance hereof , first , that they secretly & sedulously had prepared Printed , published & dedicated to the Parliament their most proud , self-praysing ( & yet false ) Apologetic all Narration , never acquainting the Assembly before-hand therewith , or tendring any Writing of their Church-Government , to the Assembly as they had promised , & in conscience ought to have done : Just so , secondly , here , they again dealt with the Reverend Assembly ; for , wheras , stil the Assembly earnestly moved them again and again ( for the surer and speedier composing of differences between them , and happier settlement of a blessed Church Government , so long and earnestly desired , as was hoped at least , by all ) that they would yet bring forth their Modell of Church-Government ; yea , and since that also they had been earnestly importuned thereunto by Master Dury , a Reverend , Learned and godly Minister of the Hague in Holland , ( as hath been testified by Himselfe in a Letter of his , sent to our Assembly of Divines , from the Hague , March the seventh , 1643 , and extant in Print , the substance whereof was to this effect . That he had oft required and intreated of these dissenting Brethren , but never could obtein , to know the true points is difference , betwixt them and the other Reformed Churches . The like also had our London-Ministers often desired but , could never , to this day , obtein their desire . But , now at length ( to come to the point ) with much fresh importunity , even almost beyond the bounds of modesty , they being thus urged , as it were , on all sides and not knowing how , with any credit , any longer to evade , they seemed ( now at last , I say ) to condescend to the thing ; And made choice of M. Thomas Goodwin to be the man that should manage the whole work of their promised Modell ; to which purpose , hee also ( having undertaken the thing ) had for the space of at least six moneths , sequestred himself a part from his attendance on the Assembly , and from his publike Ministry , into the Country , for his more conveniency to the work ; In which interim , ô what vaunts , brags and boasts had wee up and down by all their Independent Proselytes , what a rare New-modell was making , by M. Thomas Goodwin , and shortly to come forth , and all these brags , at least , three moneths before the famous upshot of all , and therefore great expectation was of it , on both sides , especially by all that were apt credulously to believe it , and all stood , as it were , gaping and gazing triumphantly , to see it . At last , about the end of the faid six moneths great and wonderfull expectation , That was rightly fulfilled , Parturinnt Montes nascitur ridiculus Mus. For , in the issue of all , no Modell could be produced , but instead thereof , they durst most ungodlily ( because most falsly ) and without all feare , or wit , or honesty ( as it may be feared ) exhibit to the Assembly , a most absurd and scandalous Apology or Remonstrance , owned & subscribed by seven of their most eminent Dissenting-Brethren , which was afterward impudently Printed and published ( and most craftily pretended to be so published clandestinely without the Authours privity or consent ) under the name of a Remonstrance ; Both ( as they hoped ) to prop-up , if it be might be , the said Authours crackt credit ; and also even perfidiously to dishonour and disgrace the whole right reverend Assembly , if , I say , it had bin possible for them . In all this notwithstanding , both in their Apologeticall Narration , and in this their Remonstrance , they seeme most seriously to professe and protest ( like cunning Deceivers , indeed ) their integer carriage and honest meaning , in all the businesse , and their willingnesse and forwardnesse , always to make known what ever they held in Church-Government , together with their Reasons , why , ( now , in the upshot of all ) they have not given in a Modell of their Church-Government , laying the whole load ( just as our Grandfather Adam laid his offence upon God himself ) and the foul-fault of the only cause of their failing therein , upon the Assembly of Divines ; most shamelesly and falsly aspersing and bespattering the said Reverend Assembly , even all over ( in that Remonstrance ) with very many intolerable slanderous accusations and imputations , false , I say , in every point and parcell of them ; As in the Assemblies most excellent and abundantly satisfactory Answer to the said Remonstrance ( or reasons forsooth , of the Independents or Dissenting Brethren ) lately set forth by authority of the honourable Lords in Parliament , may and doth most truly and abundantly appear . Wherein pag. 4. they first prove the notorious unwillingnesse of these Independents to make known what they hold in Church-Government , both from their own confession , in the forementioned Apolog. Narration , pag. penn'd and published by themselves , and also by the testimonie of reverend Master Durie aforesaid , as also of reverend and religious Master Apollonins , a learned Divine of Walachria , who also sent to the Independents in London , an expresse Letter , desiring them to informe him what their opinion was in those points , in difference betwixt them and the Presbyterian-partie , that so he might not mistake them ( he being then appointed by the Classis of Walachria to set down the judgement of those Reformed Churches , concerning these controversies , now agitated with us in England ) but yet notwithstanding he could not obtain it from them , as himselfe hath complained , and as they themselves too well know , is most true against them . In brief , who ever desires most fully and exactly to see the falsity and notorious halting of that whole Remonstrance and Apologie of the Independents , even all over , àcapite ad calcem ; let him seriously peruse that most full and fair Answer of our learned , reverend , and religious Assembly , and he shall receive abundant and most luculent satisfaction , both touching the Assemblies most tender , fair and faithfull dealings with them all along ; and also touching the unquestionable Truth of what I have herein writ of these unhappie Independents , viz. Their most unreasonable and irreligious slandering of the Assembly , all along , in that Remonstrance , not having delivered the Truth from their heart , in any part thereof , but altogether spoken deceitfully or falsly in every of their assertions , or aspersions ( rather ) laid upon thē . And now , say ▪ good reader , Are these dealings of these prime Independent-Remonstrants , the practises of precious Saints ? are these fit actions think you , for the Heads of a Godly-Party , so bigly boasted of , and most mightily blazed abroad in the world by the trump of flying ( I had almost said lying ) fame ? Certainly then am I extremely mistaken in my poor ●udgement and knowledge in Piety and Probity . Concerning which their most injurious molesting of the peace of Gods Church , and their unbridled endeavours to obtrude wayes and rules of governing Gods Church after their own conceited opinions , not having any ground out of Gods Word for the same ; I shall here desire to minde them of a most pertinent passage , very fit for this our present purpose , related by my reverend friend M. Burton in his Sermon entituled , For God and the King . Where hee writes thus . Were it a Law in England as once it was among the Loctians ; that whosoever would propound a new Law , should come with a halter about his neck , that if it pleased not the Senate , the Hangman , being ready , should doe his office on him . This passage Master Burton , then , applyed ( and I confesse most fitly ) to the Prelates of his time , for their illegall innovations , and this passage ( I verily believe ) I may as properly apply to our Schismaticall Independents and the rest and best of their fraternity of Sectaries , who so strive and struggle to introduce ( by their new lights forsooth ) such new Laws or ways of a Church-Government , which so justly may , and doe displease our honourable Senate , and molest the whole Kingdom , because they cannot prove or justifie them from Gods Word , If therefore that Law were on foot and in force among us , at this time , and that these our Sectaries should be made to come with halters about their necks , on that condition ; what a case , these our Independents , together with their waspish-brethren , the Anabaptists , and the rest of their rabble : of Sectaries , would be in , let all wise men judge ? Again , see yet farther , I pray thee , good Reader , more of their palpable and apparent halting and Double-dealing , still manifested under their own hands , against themselves , For , heretofore Mr. John Goodwin , in his Innocencies Triumph , his Theomachia . pag. 48 , 49 , 50. and diverse others of his late Pamphlets ; Mr. Burton also ( my old entirely beloved friend , for whom my soule mournes in secret , to see him so falne off from his former faithfull principles ) in his vindication , pag. 49 , 50 , 51. and pag. 68 , 69 , &c. Christ upon his Throne , Master Lilburn , also , in his frothie and most scurrilous Letter , to ever to be honoured M. Prinne ; The Jesuiticall Author or Authors of The Arraignment of Mr. Persecution , together with very many others , too tedious to recite , and to whose own abusive words , in their own writings , in high derogation of the Parliaments honour and authority in Ecclesiasticall affairs , for brevittes sake I refer the Reader . All these Independents and Sectaries , I say , and many others of them did heretofore in those times of their then writings ( and , Rebus sic stantibus ) when their fears were exceeding strong that the Parliament would certainly establish the Presbyterian-Government , and their hopes extreme weake and flat of having their Independent Church-way set up , or so much as a Toleration tolerated to them : O then I say , how was the power of Parliaments in Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction , or matters of Religion , cryed down , abased and abused by M. Goodwin , and the rest ? Alas , for the Parliament to take upon it the ordering of Church Government , or Church discipline , O this was a most high and intollerable presumption in them , this was a most bold intrenching upon Christs royall prerogative , with many such like terrible taxations , and heavy imputations of wrongfull usurping an Antichristian Legislative power and authority over the consciences ( forsooth ) of Christs free born Holy-ones : But now adays , of late , the case is altered , since the election of New-Members of Parliament in the House of Commons , whereby they begin to dream , ( and I trust in God they doe but dream ) that their hopes are now upon the wing , and raised up to a high-flown pitch of conceit that the Presbyterian-Government shall either quite down , and not be established at all , or else so clog'd and clipt with Commissioners , and such like supposed yokes , curbs and restrictions , as shall like Pharao's Chariots in the Red-Sea , take off the wheels , and make it drive on so heavily , that Independents , Anabaptists , and the rest , shall have fit and fair oportunities mightily to advance and hurrie on their own designes , their crafty ayms and ends , and in time bring them to perfection , and for the present enjoy a full allowance of that cursed cause of the ruine of all sound Religion and sincere holinesse , Libertie of conscience for all damnable Sects and Schismes whatsoever . O , now , therefore , I say , how is the power of Parliament in matters of Religion and setling of Church Government , cryed-up and magnified , yea , and wholy and onely , ( as it were ) appropriated to them as the main master builders of Gods House , his Church ? And as for the Assembly of Divines , they have nothing to doe therein , but so far onely as the Parliament pleases to use or refuse them . Witnesse , first , The Peace-maker , lately printed and published , which now so struggles to uphold a peaceable-union between the Parliament and the City of London , especially , ( wherein he does well , if that were all ) But why , Ipray , is this designe so fairely prest and put on ? O , because we in the City may assure our selves ( sayes this Peace-maker ) if through our dis-unions the Parliament should miscarry in the main cause in hand , not all our most professed friends in the World can preserve us from perishing . Marke these words well , good Reader , The main Cause in hand , and consider the times , now , and certainly the Peace-maker must needs mean Religion and Church-Government ( not the businesse of War ) to be the main Cause in hand , and then take speciall notice also of his so zealously maintaining of the Parliamentarie-Covenant , but with this proviso , that it be in his sense , and with his glosse set upon it , which I should wonder how this Author dares thus to doe ( but that I now see they dare to doe any thing ) since as he well knows what a most deadly danger the Author of The Protestation Protested was in , in former dayes , for putting his sense , as the Parliaments sense , upon that Parliamentarie-Protestation . Besides , how does this Peace-maker agree with that crafty Caution-contriver , Mr. I. G. in his twelve Cautions against the Hot-pressers of Reformation ? ( as hee flashingly termes the pious Presbyterians ) who cannot endure a Parliamentary-Covenant-Reformation of Religion , or rather , as I may say , a Covenanting-preparative to the worke of Reformation of Religion , as in those his twelve serious Cautions , he most subtilely and slily ( like himselfe ) insinuates , and therein paddles , and pleases his own contentious humour , pretending indeed onely piety , but ayming ( as is most easie there to be understood ) at his own most dangerous and factious ends , his principall practice and trade for these many years . Besides this Peacemaker , we have also one M. Walwin , a most egregiously Pharisaicall Whisperer , Pharisaicall , I say ; For , in his frothy Whisper in M. Edwards his Eare , pag. 4. he takes occasion ( just as his Independent Masters , the five Apologists did also , in their Apolog. Nar. of themselves , so he ) to magnifie himselfe , not whispering ( now ) but blowing a Trumpet of his own high prayses , with a long-breath , and a lowd-Stentorian-voice , about two pages long in quarto , and all to paint out his own person to be such a Seraphicall and Angelicall-Saint , yea , as it were , of such an immaculate , and sublimely refined nature and celestiall-temper , as if there were Nihil humani , in the man ; In so much , that , truly for my part , I professe sincerely I never read or heard of such a notorious Self-flatterer in all my life ; yea , certainly far transcending the proud Pharisee mentioned in the the Gospell . This Pharisaicall Whisperer , I say , being , now , turn'd like a Weathercock , with the winde of temporizing-policy hath these words in that piece of his Whispering-stuff , pag. 4. As far as it can , in this Nation ( there 's a juggle ) I am certain , it belongeth only to the Parliament to iudge what is agreeable to the Word of God , and not unto the Assembly of Divines . Ah , Sir , is the case thus alter'd , now ? must the Parliament only be judge in matters of Religion ? Whereas , heretofore , neither Parliament , nor Assembly ( by our Sectaries familiar sentence ) had any such power . Nay , see how hee goes on . And God ( sayes he ) hath blessed all their undertakings , in a wonderfull manner , by the hands of conscientious people , because of their just and tender regard unto freedome in Religion , notwithstanding all importunity to the contrary ; meaning , in suffering all sorts of Sectaries to doe what they list , notwithstanding all honest endevours of pious Presbyterians , against licentious Libertines and Independents . Thus this Whisperer . But , to go on ; See , again , the strange boldnes of these our Independents , set forth yet farther , by that most audacious Jesuiticall-Independent , the most seditious , yea , trayterous Authour of The last Warning to London . How , first , he most impudently quarrels at all Government , both Regall , Civill and Ecclesiasticall , and then scornfully contends with a Government established by the Parliament , in these words , pag. 3. 4 , & 5. Others ( meaning of the Presbyterian partie ) are troubled with another as unreasonable a humour concerning Ecclesiasticall Government who are undone , ruined , and torne in peeces with rents and divisions if all the people may not be compelled to worship God as they doe , or in one uniforme way by the State established . Yet ( sayes he ) p. 5. These are they that frame Oaths and Covenants for you in such ambiguous expressions ( like Delphian-Oracles ) that you shall seem to be bound to doe any thing they shall desire , be it ever so absurd or wicked . Here , now , you see , this impudent Independent will not endure a worship established by the State , when he fear'd the fall of his own partie , thereby : But look upon him a little farther , and see how notoriously he playes the jugler , and palpable Impostor , pag. 7. in these very words . Minde your own good ( this he also speaks to the City of London ) and cleave fast to the House of Commons ; Let no Sorcerie or Sophistrie divide you from them , be not importunate with them for Church-Government , but leave it to their wisdoms to measure-out unto the Clergie , what may be for the quiet and profit of the people . See here now how the case is altered with this Independent ; now , all must be left to the State , to the wisdome of the House of Commons , now you see a Parliamentary Church Government is the best . But , see again , how this Satanicall-deceiver goes about most audaciously and sediciously to make a rent and division between the two Houses of Parliament . The Lords ( says he ) are not to goe before the Commons in determining what concerns the Nations , Their large Answer to your last City-Petition for Church-Government and suppression of Conventicles , insinuates they would allure you from the Commons , therefore observe them watchfully , and trust them accordingly , and let not any of these estrange you from that your faithfull Councel , the House of Commons . This is now adays , their tone and tune ; now , I say , that they suppose ( but most falsly I hope ) that the House of Commons will either curb , or cast down the Presbyterian-Government , or at least grant a Toleration to the Independent-Church way . But , in the meane season , judge ô my godly Brethren , is not this a most Satanicall dissembler , and abominable Traitor too , to Peace and Truth ? And are not all these men brave and bold consciencious time-servers and time-observers for their own ayms and interests ? Certainly , I think they are , or else I am still mightily mistaken . Nay yet again , what a strange trick have they now of late taken up to abuse us withall ? even to make our solemne League and most sacred Covenant that happy & heavenly tie upon our consciences to Almighty God himself to be if possibly it may be ) a mayn snare and most da●gerous Dilemma ( or nose of wax ) to undo us all ( in making us abominable and nauseous Covenant-breakers ) by their false wrested Comments and fallacious Glosses & Interpretations set upon it , for the surer and subtiller advance of their own wicked aymes and ends ; Telling us that the Parliament intended not the sense and acceptation of it , thus and thus , according to the Letter of it , as we the Presbyterians take it , and undiscreetly would have it ; neither for Conformity to the Church of Scotland , or other Reformed Churches ; As my old deare , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 unhappy friend M. Burton in his fore-mentioned Peacemaker seems to come too neer to such an interpretation of that branch of our Covenant , when he sayes ; And why not rather to the Churches of New-England , & yet he sees ( or may if he please ) the very Church of Scotland nominatim , expressed plainly in the Covenant : But the Letter ( they say ) must not stand for good ( but an , &c. ) sense , like the Bishops oath . Much , also , to this purpose , speaks that most wicked and seditious , yea , apparently Jesuiticall Last warning to London ; And Walwin also that Whisperer , and self-flated-flatterer , before more fully mentioned . And thus this godly party , these precious Saints , willingly forget ( as I touched before ) or are now adayes ( without fear or piety ) most carelesse and fearlesse of the great danger of their lives , or , at least , of some severe corporall punishment , as the Author of the Protestation Protested , once was in ( as I touched before ) for daring to wrest the sense of the Covenants , Orders or Edicts of our wise and honourable Parliamentarie Senators , to their own private and most pernicious aymes and ends O tempora ! O mores ! If ever certainly , now , is that of the Prophet Jeremiah most truly and clearly fulfilled , and too manifest in these our Independents : Take ye heed , everyone , of his neighbour , and trust yee not in any brother ; for , every brother will utterly supplant , and every neighbour will walk with slanders . And for a most particular ratification of this Scripture , I shall here give the Reader a cleere example in an eminent Independent Past●r , now and long resident in this City , and well known to almost all in the City , viz. Doctor Homes , who succeeded reverend and religious Master Faucet , who being a sickly Gentleman , and finding hee could not have his health well in the City , contracted with Doctor Homes about exchange of their livings , the one for the City , the other for the Country in case of consent of the Inhabitants of each place . Master Faucets Parishioners out of their good respect and love to him , and for his desired accommodation , consented thereunto , and the rather also , as knowing the Doctor to be a man of able parts , and perswaded he would live lovingly , and deale honestly and conscienciously with them , as a godly and faithfull Pastor ought with his own people . After which consent the Doctor procured a presentation from the ( then ) Lord Keeper to the Bishop , and the next thing to be done was to have an induction from the Bishop , but there the Doctor made a stand , and desired conference with the parishioners about it ▪ to whom he declared the tendernes of his cōscience , and that he could not digest such an Induction , he holding it Antichristian , and yet without which he could not have the living , as the case then stood . Whereupon the Parishioners having very good thoughts of the Doctor in those dayes , and hoping for much good by his Ministry amongst them , were all of them willing to accept of him for their Pastor , though he was not ( as the manner then was ) legally possest of the living provided , that the Doctor should enter into bond to save the parish harmelesse from the next Incumbent , for delapidations or any thing else that might befall them in that respect of the living , he not being proper Incumbent . To this the Doctor consented , seald the Parish a Bond , for the purposes aforesaid , and so the Parishioners thought all was well between them , and thus it continued some few moneths , the Doctor constantly preaching and officiating in his Ministry amongst them ; But now at last , the Doctor began to flag , and to be discontented , and would neither preach , nor doe ought else among his people as their Minister , or but very seldom and discontentedly , and told the parishioners hee was troubled in minde , and bound in his Spirit , and could not goe on comfortably with them , and desired therefore a conference with them All together , whereupon a meeting there was , and he then declared to them that he was much troubled in minde by reason of his engagement , and that it was a grèat hinderance to his studies , and to his other contentments , and that he could not goe on in preaching to them , till his engagement was taken off from him , making this a great Argument therein , namely , that he had a wife , and that if God should take him away from her , his wife would then beliable to make good what he was bound to , but , that she was utterly unfit to deal in businesses of such a nature , and therefore , I say , he desired he might have in his bond again , or else he could not goe on comfortably in his Ministry , And that if they would thus far favour and respect him , they should see how highly he should value their love therein , and how he would studie and strive to deserve it of them , bidding them trust him upon his word and promise , which accordingly they most freely and lovingly did , and gave him in the bond presently , and ever since that , they have paid soundly for it , for very shortly after hee began boldly to play reexs , to stand upon termes on tiptoe , as it were , with his Parishioners , gathered an Independent congregation , excluding all his foresaid loving Parishioners from Christian Communion in their own Parish Church , except they would enter into a Covenant with him , to walke according to his rule , which they not willing to yeeld unto he having got the keyes of the Church from their clerke , keeps all the Parishioners out , and will not administer the Sacrament of the Lords Supper to any of them , not baptize any of their children , nor doe any act of a Minister or Pastor to his people , save what he would doe to a very Turke or Pagan , unlesse they will dance after his Independent pipe ; And thus now the Parishioners wander as sheepe without a sheepherd , glad to run into others pastures , and this they have gotten by trusting to a grave Independents bare promise . And are not now the Prophets words before recited , here too truly verified and confirmed ? The truth of all which though not extant in print under the Doctors own hands ( as for shame is not like to be ) yet I am able to justifie by the testimonie of divers of the honest , able , religious , and understanding parishioners or Inhabitants of that place , to full satisfaction . Again who ever looks upon that peece of Changeable taffatie , for I confesse t is finely spun ( as so are all his ) and yet interwoven with sablesilke , that is , much black-slander and jettie-jeers , I mean Mr. John Goodwins twelve serious considerable Cautions about Reformation , together with his soft and smooth Probationer thereof , his Independent brother Master John Bachiler ; O what prettie tinkling and tampering shall he there finde ( to abuse and blind-fold the understanding of their most willingly deceived and abused Independent Proselytes ) between the Licenser and the Licentious Author , both upon the serious perusall of the crafty Cautions themselves , and the Licensers slie protestations ( there ) that he sees nothing therein contrary to sound Doctrine and good manners ; And thus , in effect , hee also deals by his full approbation of my late friend Mr. Saltmarsh his most foggie and suffocating or choking Smoake of the Temple , Touching which , I think , learned , grave and godly Mr. Ley , a reverend Divine of the Assembly hath sufficiently shewn him his grosse failings and weaknesses , to say no more ; And also his Grones for liberty out of Smectymnius , in neither of which also can Mr. Bachiler see any thing contrary to sound Doctrine nor good manners though they bee full fraught ( especially , the Grones for Libertie ) with very false , falacious , and grossely misapplyed parallels , and unsavorie comparisons , between the cases or conditions and times of the dommeering Prelates , ouer the truly tender consciences of the ( then ) truly godly Nonconfommists , and our ( now ) pious Presbyterians in their gracious and most moderate desire of unity and uniformity in sound Doctrine , and Scripturall discipline , with his Schismaticall Sectaries , in their most ungodly and ungrounded grones , or rather grunts , for abominable , yea damnable Libertie of conscience , forsooth . Nor can this tender conscienced Licenser , to his deare Independent Authors , see ought amisse in Master Sal●marshes subtile and deceitfull Treatise of Free-grace , the glorious and specious deep-promising Title whereof ( as learned and reverend Master Gatakar truly sayes , in his learned Answer to that Book of M. Salimarshes ) on the very Frontispeece , were bush enough of it self , to invite & intice ( guests ) to tast of such pretended precious liquor ; yet very much dangerous drinke of errour to be found therein , as Mr. Gatakar , I say , in that his learned and pious reply cleerely discovers , together also with Master Saltmarshes most injurious exceptions and discontents at reverend and religious Master Edwards his Gangraena , Of whom ( I mean Master Edwards ) I can say thus much , from Master Saltmarshes own mouth , on mine own particular knowledge , That I having got Master Saltmarsh both to heare Master Edwards preach in Christ-Church , and afterward to have much particular conference with him at my house , I and others have heard Master Saltmarsh give Master Edwards such high and honourable Testimony both for his godly , sound , and satisfactory preaching , and also for his gravity , solidity , & sweetly tempered moderation in conference , as that I am confident , hee is not able to give more or better testimony and commendation of any Independent or Sectarie , whatsoever : yea , and he added these words unto me . I professe , Sir ( says he to my selfe ) had I not thus heard M. Edwards my self , I could not have believed the half thereof ; But , I am now glad I have , thus heard him , and conferred with him , that now I may ( as I will ) on all occasions , vindicate his reputation and honour , when ever I heare him traduced or ill-spoken of . Or words full , to this effect . And all this , I say , I can most faithfully witnesse and testifie and so can others ) on mine own particular knowledge . Truly , therefore , me thinks , had I said no more , in these respects , than what that worthy Authour ( who ever he was ) of that , though succinct , yet most solid piece , entituled Toichoructa , or Independents razing their own foundation . Wherein , he most singularly deciphers how neer the spirit of Independents comes to Remish Jesuits , in their Deceits and Dissimulations , stretching their Consciences beyond the the line of all fair-dealing ; Had I , therefore , I say , said no more , me thinks , I had spoken enough to convince them of deep impiety and most foul iniquity , in the very way of their destructive Schisme among us . Nay , yet farther , take speciall notice , I beseech thee good Reader , of one more even unparalell'd piece of impiety , and ( doubtlesse ) of unpattern'd palpable iniquity most worthily mentioned to their eternall and indelible shame and infamy by the foresaid Authour of that Toichoructa , which you shall finde exactly set downe , in that notable piece , pag 4 , 5 , 6. Wherein hee shews how notoriously dissemblingly and unconscionably the Independents of the Assembly at Westminster dealt with their Presbyterian Brethren , there , about Commissioners to judge of sins not ennmerated in the Ordinance touching admitting or not admitting to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper . Against which , when our Presbyterian-Divines desired their Dissenting-Brethren of the Independent faction to joyn in a Petition with them to the House of Commons ; And although it is a thing which Independents cannot according to their principles allow of ; yet , now , upon this just desire of their Presbyterian-Brethren , they answered ; The thing the Assembly desired was good , yet they could not joyn with them therein because it might be a hinderance to a greater good which themselves desired . Here 's policie to the purpose , indeed . And ( as the same Authour goes on ) whether the Independents have not had their hands deep in the promoting the businesse of Commissioners and obstructing those wayes which might have prevented it I appeale to their owne consciences . Now , if any one ask ( as well as wonder ) upon what principles , the Indep●ndents can , in conscience , consent and approve of , yea , promote and farther ( as 't is too evident they have ) the laying on of such burthens upon other mens shoulders , as themselves cannot in conscience submit unto ? I answer , on what principles of conscience they thus proceed , I know not , but their prin●iples of policy , are divers and deep ; as first , Themselves never meant to be unde● such bonds , but either hoped to get a formall Toleration for their way , and exemption from such a rule , or at least , resolved to practise Toleration in their seperated Congregations , whether the Magistrate tolerate it or not , unto them ; And therefore cared not how straight and pirching those or any bonds were made for others . Thus and more , to this purpose , this worthy Authour . Now if all these be not prety Independent tricks to play fast and loose with their Brethren , I know not what belongs to Fair play above board . And all these things being so evident and apparent to all truly pious and impartiall Christians , that are not wilfully blinde , and so conspicuous under their own hands ( for the most part ) even all I have hither●o written of them , I cannot but exceedingly wonder how it should come to passe , that mens eyes and understanding ( especially too many even of the intelligent Presbyterian party ) should be so blinded or rather besotted , and that their reason should be so gull'd and del●…ded , as to believe these and such like pernitious and perfidious pr●ctices to be consonant and agreeable to such pious-men and precious-Saints ( I mean , I say , the Heads and Ring-leaders of them especially ) as the world cals and conceives them to be ; and therefore , they say , they dare not speak against them , or think evill of them ; Considering I say in the first place ( as a sure ground to build their judgement on ) These Scripture-marks and Characters of a truly holy-Saint and gracious Citizen of the New-Jerusalem ; and how D●ame●rally opposite thereunto , these Independent Sectaries walk , and how egregiously discrepant and remote they are from them . And , since , as our blessed Saviour says , In the mouth , or testimony of two or three witnesses , every word or truth shall be established . I hope , this cloud of unquestionable self-condemning-testimonies , even as it were out of their own mouthes , and under their own hands ( the most of them ) may be abundantly sufficient , for the future , to stop the mouthes of our Independent Antagonists , and to satisfie the false conceits of any Neutrall Gainsayers , yea , and to make ( if it bee possible ) the boldest of them to blush and hold their tongues , or hide their faces for shame of themselves and their deceitfull and wicked way . And yet , I must confesse , I may seem , herein , to be much mistaken ( especially in the opinion of Independents , Object . 1 and such as harken or adheare to them ) for , they have , most cunningly got a brave varnish to glaze over all these objections , and a fine back-do●e of evasion to get out at , from all these censures and surmises of Presbyterians touching all these the Independents seeming miscarriages ; namely , that all this which I have hitherto urged against them , as subtilties and deceivable Errors , Schismes or Enormities , they finely and fairly call and count Glorious New-Lights , and rare-Revelations . And , hence it is ( they will assure you ) that at the first they told us ( in their Apologeticall Narration ) that they would positively determine nothing in their Church way or Church-Government , but forsooth , wait in expectation ( still ) of New-Light , and so keep a Reserve , to help themselves at a dead lift , for so are Mr. Burtons own words in his Vindication . But hereunto , I answer , Is not this a cleere Jesuiticall juggle , and most like unto the Popish Equivocation , whereby the Jesuits , Seminarie-Priests , and all Jesuited Papists did familiarly use to help themselves at a dead lift , Answ . 1 when they were examined upon any serious Questions , even by a Mentall reservation or equivocation to help themselves , I say , and thereby did they the more cunningly deceive the most acute Argumentators and interrogating Disputans that came against them ? And would not our Independents , now adayes , by this their fine-trick of New-lights , forsooth , befool our faith , and make us believe they doe all now , by rare Revelations ? Herein , I say , dealing with us , just as the Jesuites did with their Proselytes and Opposites too , in the point of Transubstantiation , labour to make them believe that the Bread and Wine in the Lords Supper , were truly ; really , and corporally transubstantiated into the very Body and Bloud of Christ even the very same which suffered and was shed on the crosse in all respects , though there was no visible change ( either to sight or sense ) in the Bread or Wine , but they still remained the same which they were before they were consecrated , whereof , when they were told so , they presently answered that it was so trāsinutated or changed by a Miracle , forsooth , which indeed was a ridiculous and absurd answer ; for we never read of any miracle wrought either by any of the Prophets , Christ himself , or his Apostles , but it was reall , evident , and visible , both to sight and sense to be a miracle indeed : Even so I say to out Independents , concerning their Reserve or New-lights , Tell them of any of their new & upstart errors , or vaporous Enthusiasmes , or Newly-revived-Opinions or conceits , but indeed meer old errours ( call them what you please ) rak't out of the rotten ashes of ancient Hereticks and Schismaticks , presently their smooth and deceivable Answer is ; O Sir , these are not Errours but New-Lights , newly and rarely revealed to us by some sodain and secret inspiration , and when we demand or desire to have it made out unto us by Gods written Word , that they are reall and demonstrative , New-Lights indeed , that we may evidently discerne them to be such , by that truest Tonch-stone , the Word of God , and not to be empty Meteors and crotchets of their own brains ; Then , alas , either through ignorance and deceivablenesse they cannot , or else with as much impertinencie as obstinacie , they will foolishly and falsely urge that of the Prophet Joel , And it shall come to passe , that I will poure out my spirit upon all flesh , and your sons and your daughters shall prophesie , &c. and your young men shall see visions . Whereas this Prophesie of Joel ( as the Apostle Peter told the Jews ) was clearly prophesied of , and mainly fulfilled in those times of the Apostles , and then after our Saviour Christs ascention ( which were called those Last-dayes , as all the learned observe ) the Lord indeed poured out his spirit on all flesh , on young and old , male and female , and gave them power of admirably doing miracles and wonders , and then I say ( as the Apostle Peter , in that forecited Scripture said ) was this Prophesie of Joel most apparently fulfilled , and so continued all the time of the Apostles lives , and some of their holy Disciples , even to about the time of the destruction of Jerusalem . But what 's this to our times , wherein ( and long time before ) miracles are ceased ? Can any of us dare to assume the extraordinary power of the Spirit of God , to doe miracles , and worke wonders ? Is it a miracle or a wonder ( indeed , I confesse it may be , to see such intolerable impudence ) to see young saucie Boyes ( in comparison ) bold botching Taylors , and other most audacious illiterate mechanicks , to run rudely and rashly ( and unsent for too ) out of their shops into a Pulpit ; To see bold impudent huswives , without al womanly modesty , to take upon them ( in the naturall volubility of their tongues , & quick wits , or strong memories onely ) to prate ( not preach or Prophesie ) after a narrative or discoursing manner , an houre or more , and that most directly contrary to the Apostles inhibition ; But where , I say , is their extraordinary spirit poured out upon them , either in the gift of tongues ( except it be the lying and the slanderous tongues , which are rather the gifts of the evil Spirit , as the Apostle James testifies ) in gifts of miraculous healing the sick and sore , and such like ? where , I say , are any of these in our old or young Tradesmen , or bould Beatriceses of the female sex ? And does not the Apostle Peter most punctually come up to this very thing of our Independents , even to shew us this most notable dissembling and fallacious trick of New-Lights , and fained Revelations , which he foresaw would follow his departure out of his Earthly-Tabernacle , , and therefore forewarns the people of God to beware of them , telling them , Verse 16. That he and the rest of the faithfull Apostles used not cunningly devised fables ( or new inventions of their own or other mens brains ) when they made known the power and comming of the Lord Jesus unto them . Adding at length this most immoveable and infalible rule for them to walk by , and to be guided with , ver. 19. But we have a more sure word of prophesie , whereunto you doe well that yee take heed , as unto a light that shineth in a darke place , till the day dawn , and the day-star ( of truth ) arise in your hearts . Away , then , with this notorious deceitfull trick of New-Lights ( for shame ) and of your rare Revelations ; cheat not the people of God and your own soules , especially , with these deceivable devices of your own brains , and Schismaticall spirits . But , this , most certainly , is the Independent way , now adayes , among us , to the great disturbance of the peace and comfort of the people of the Lord , and when we justly tell them of their unfaithfull dealing , and down right deceiving , by this their trick of New-lights ; O then , just as the Jesuits and Popish Priests , in Queene Maries dayes , and of later times , called those that would not believe their Popish trick of Transubstantiation to be a miracle , they called and counted them , I say , Hereticks : so these our Independents ( if we will not , and cannot in our consciences , nor by any of their demonstrations , beleeve their trick of New-Lights to be a Scripture Revelation of some rare Truth of God not formerly known but a meere conceit , yea , a plain deceit ) ô then presently , I say , our Independents call and count us ( as my selfe heard Master Burroughs deliver such an expression in one of his Lectures at Michaels in Corn-hill ) Carnall and prophane Presbyterians , Grievers and despisers of the Saints and Godly party , forsooth , and contemners of the gifts of the Spirit , whereas indeed there is no such thing in them , but they most palpable and impudent impostors . And thus , the Lord knows , they goe about deceiving and being deceived , and truly , Hinc illae lachrima , Heer 's the source , the rice and originall of all these unhappie and unholy jars and divisions between us ; They are so nimble and quick-sighted in apprehension of New-Lights , and we are so dull and obtuse ( if they will have it so ) and hard of belief to be led , or rather misled by them , as not being able to discerne so much out of Gods Word , Till when , we shall ever question and quarrell at this novell and vain device of theirs . But again , our Independents have one trick more , at least to put us Object 2 finely off from our just objurgations with them , and accusations of them , concerning their most dangerous and damnable errours , now adayes broacht by them , and brag'd of among them , viz. That wee are too uncharitable in thus upbraiding the Saints with their infirmities , forsooth ; yea , and ( as I touch'd before ) in laying the failings and slips of onely the Retrimentitious ▪ Partie ( as Master Iohn Goodwin terms them , as before ) that is , in plain English the excrements or dregs of Sectaries , Independents , Anabaptists , and such like . Where first Answer . 2 take notice , good Reader , by way of reply hereunto in generall , that Master Iohn Goodwin confesses , there is a Retrimentitious or Excrementall-Partie among his Saints . Secondly , That he calls and counts their dangerous , damnable , and blasphemous Errours , with the rest of their foul impieties , but sins of infirmity . But more particularly to the first , I briefly answer , That as I have sufficiently made it clear , all along in this Treatise , they are not onely the Retrimentitious-Partie of their Independent Saints , that deale thus dangerously and deceitfully with us , but the very best and bravest , yea , seemingly , gravest Grandees of them all . Secondly , Is not Master Iohn Goodwin , or any of the rest of them ashamed , to call such abusive and abominable Errours and such foul and frequent facts of impiety ( as they are too justly taxed with , and found guilty of ) Sins onely of infirmity ? Can he or they make us beleeve that they know not how to distinguish between Sins of weaknesse or infirmity , and Reigning-sins , Church-disgracing and conscience-wounding abominations ? For my part I conceive ( under correction ) sins of infirmity are such as are committed either ignorantly , or if knowingly , yet ) fearfully , and with much reluctation of spirit , seldom , and that with much vehement repentance and godly sorrow after conviction , with purpose and bent of heart ( by Gods grace ) to be more watch full against them for the future , and such like . As for Reigning-sins , I conceive them to be , sins committed or acted knowingly , affectedly , promeditately , resolutely , constantly , or frequently and familiarly against all evidences of conviction or exhortation against them , yea , and so far from repentance for them , as to justifie them and rejoyce and boast in them ; together with such like other sad symptomes thereof . Now , whether very many of our profest Independents embrace or act their dangerous Errours , lying , double dealing , and the like , as aforesaid , in the former or in the latter capacity or condition , as sins of weaknesse or of wilfulnesse , and affected obstinacy , I leave themselves to judge and faithfully to examine their own hearts and consciences ( for , to their own Master they stand or fall ) And to all others also , who impartially observe and take notice of their carriage and conversation ; especially , upon serious consideration of those Characters of a true Saint , which I have faithfully fore-mentioned to them ; all that I will , for my part , say herein , is , to tell you my strong fears , that , in regard of the premises , I cannot but greatly suspect and doubt , in the latter capacity ( I say , very many of them ) so proud , so pragmaticall , so insolent and obstinate are they in a most ungrounded defence of their evils and errours ; And on these grounds , I must confesse I cannot judge more tenderly of them . And again , I say , in yet more full answer to this Objection ; How dare any of them call or account any the ( seeming ) least of their Errours , small-sins or no-sins , being against the eternall truth , of our most pure Object . 3 and holy God ? And whereas in the last place they cry out against us , and tax us , not onely of want of charity , but asperse us with plain impiety , for urging against them , and accusing them openly or inprint , of their foul offences , and openly taught and maintained dangerous Errours , Schismes , and Enormities , and of their damnable Doctrines and Opinions : I say , and will avouch and maintain it , That our work and way herein , is both holy , honest , and warrantable from the word it self ; And particularly from that of the Apostle Paul , Who Answ . 3 himselfe tels us , that , When Peter ( who at that time seemed a Pillar of Gods house , the Church ) did that which was worthy of blame , and that , openly , to the prejudice and so and all of Gods people and Cause : This blessed Apostle , I say , tels us , That he withstood Peter and rebuked him , even to his face for his dissimulation , and for being a means ( thereby to ensnare Barnabas also into the same foule fault with him ; Even the very same , whereof I now here complain in our Independents and their Schismaticall brethren , namely , Dissimulation or Double-dealing . Yea , and ( as the same blessed , wise , and holy Apostle said ) They are most worthy to be even most sharply rebuked , and also openly , in regard they have offended and dissembled so openly , even in print , therefore are , I say , to be reproved in paint , whereas , indeed , had they offended but in private , God forbid , but we should tenderly have dealt in private with them . And this indeed hath been a main ground of the quarrell between reverend Master Edwards , and his Independent Antagonists , who have most injuriously abused him with slanders , onely , or mainly for his zealous opposing , and sharpe reproving the open Errours , Schismes , and scandalous miscarriages of these men , who can be content to dishonour God and his Truth , but cannot endure to be taxt and told of it , though the Apostle tels them they are worthy to be blamed for it , and therefore in this respect , though ( according to that old Axiome , Amicus Socrates , amicus Plato , magic tamen amica veritas , though such an one is my friend , and such an one is my old acquaintance and friend , yet , by Gods grace , Truth is and shall be my best friend , yea , and I say as my blessed Lord and Master Christ Jesus said , To this end was I born , and for this cause came I into the world , that I should bear witnesse ( with the rest of Gods faithfull ones ) to the truth ; and fully and faithfully to speake and declare the Truth with all holinesse , godly zeal , courage and impartiality against whomsoever , in this case neither regarding the favours or frowns of any , but onely ayming at the glory of my God , which , I say , was the main end of my creation . But to conclude and shut up all I have now to say , it is most probable that our Independents , and the rest of their Schismaticall fraternity ( for as I have formerly toucht , I make account all the rest of the Sectaries , are for certain Independents ) Object . 3 will again , now at last Object and say unto me ; That all this while I have but pleased my selfe , in beating the ayre , and shooting at rovers , being wide of the marke and much mistaken , in all that I have taxed and accused them with all , for none of them are at all perswaded or convinced in their consciences , that any of those which Master Edwards , or I , call Errours or Schismes , are Schismes or sins , but ( as Answer . 3 was touched before ) New-Lights , and New-revealed Truths . Whereunto I Answer , with sorrow of soule for their sakes , I easily , indeed , believe they will say so , and I cannot much marvell at it , Since ( as those Demetrians said ) By this craft they have got much gain . And since I see this is their obstinate and inflexible resolution , thus , still , to say and hold , and that they are before hand resolved ( for private interests and self-aymes sake ) that no clearest demonstrative reasons or argumentations ( no though from apparent Scripture , or Scripture-consequences ) shall beat them off , or disswade them from these Satans strong stratagems of New-Light , New-Revelations , Keeping Reserves , and Liberty of Conscience ; I therefore will say no more unto them , but with the Spirit of the Lord , said to obstinate and incorrigible Ones ; Hee that is unjust , let him be unjust still , and he that is filthy let him bee filthy still ; and he that is righteous , ô let him be righteous still ; and hee that is holy , let him be holy still ? Onely , I herein may comfortably say to mine own heart , Liberavi animam meam : Yet , as the Religious bonds of piety and charity binde me ) from my soule I shall unfainedly pray ( as the Lord knows I daily doe ) that God would in the riches of his grace in Christ Jesus open their eyes and speake to their hearts , shew them the evill of their ways , and the great danger of their destructive errours , to the ruine of the whole Kingdom , yea , of the three whole Kingdoms , if they doe not timely retract and repent of those great and gangrene evils and blasphemous errours , which have enflamed almost the whole Kingdom ( by their New-lights ) as so many firebrands to set on fire three whole Kingdoms , I say , if the Lord in mercie ( by the wisdome , piety , and impartiallity of our Parliament ) quench not the flame in time , and graciously reconcile us not together by godly peace , unity , and unanimity of spirit , which the Lord in much mercie grant unto us for his sake , who is the Prince of Peace , Truth , and Love , and of all godly order , even the Lord Christ the Righteous , to whom be all honour , praise , dominion , with holy and hearty universall obedience , for ever , AMEN . The opinion and advice ( as it is deemed ) of Monsieur de MOULIN , Professor of Divinity , in the Vniversity of SEDAN , in FRANCE ; Concerning the opinion of those who are named Independents , in ENGLAND . Wherein , the Inconcinnity and unreasonablenesse , if not apparent impiety of Independents , in the mayn point of Classicall-Discipline , is most evidently discovered , by this eminently Reverend and Learned Divine , to the shame and silence of our obstinate Independents . SIR , A Certain friend of mine , an honest religious man hath given me notice , that certain persons doe finde fault with the Order and Discipline established in our Church ; In which , the Consistory are subject to the Colloquies , and the Colloquies to the Provinciall Synod ; and the Provinciall to the Nationall Synod . And their desire is to have every particular Consistory or Congregation of one and the same absolute authority , independent from any Superiour authority or Assembly whatsoever . Upon which , my said friend earnestly desired to have my opinion or judgement on the matter ; which , being of such a nature and importance , I could not any way decline , or deny his request , which , I have here set down , and is as followeth . I say , that those which propound this opinion ought in no manner or wise to be hearkened unto ; For if in case this their opinion were followed , there could nothing else ensue but the certain ruine of the Church , and an extreme confusion , for the severall reasons , heer following . First , It happeneth often times , that two Ministers of one Parish or Congregation , fall our and are at variance , and thereupon they separate and divide the Congregation into two factions , in such an occasion of necessity , there must needs be the helpe of a Superiour Authority . Secondly , The Church or Congregation hath but one Minister , and he leads an ungodly life , to the scandall of the Church , and the Consistory of that Congregation censureth him , all being of one accord or if it happen that the said Consistory be divided , and of two opinions , there can be ( surely ) in such a case , no remedy , but by a superiour Power and Authority of Colloquies or Synods , who have power to depose and appoint such Ministers ( or such a Minister ) if there be but one ) as they shall think fit , and they or he desiring to be deposeth ? Who shall depose him , the Elders onely of the Consistory , or the whole Congregation or Assembly ? Shall they give sentence against them or him ? Thirdly , If any one of the Congregation bee unjustly suspended from the holy Communion or absolutely excommunicated , unto whom shall he direct himselfe to be re-admitted to the Congregation ; or to whom shall be direct his complaint , if so be the Consistory who have unjustly suspended or excommunicated him , have an absolute authority to themselves without dependencie upon any other ? If any new Heresies happen to be raised in any Church , and that some Ministers and Congregations become infected therewith , what remedy is there to avoid this great evill , but by a Synod , who may examine and depose the obstinate Minister or partie who infecteth the Church ? Had not the Synod of Dort remedied this evill , the Arminianisme was spreading it selfe over that whole Countrey , and had unavoidably prevailed . For in case that every Consistory or Parish had been absolute of themselves and Independent , they might have refused the resolution of the said Synod , alleadging that they were not subject to Synods , but had an absolute authority within themselves . It is the chiefe and peculiar work of Synods , which they always first take in hand , to heare the complaint of particular Churches , and to judge of appeals : If these be taken away from the Synods , they need no more to meet , for they have nothing to doe : For to no purpose should they pronounce their judgements , if they might govern according to their own mindes , as if every parish were made a particular Soveraignty which would be an Order , which was never practised nor used in any place since the Apostles . There are many small Parishes in the Countrey , where the Consistory is composed of one Minister ( of none of the greatest capacity ) and of foure or five countrey-men , or clowns , who are Elders of that Church : And shall to such a Church be given such an absolute Independent authority ? And if their Minister happen to die , will you believe those clowns sitting to judge of the capacity of a new Minister , to give him the imposition of hands , or to order in this case what ever may be needfull ? If upon occasion of wars or distractions in the Kingdom , it be necessary to keepe a day of fasting and humiliation , through all the Churches in the Kingdom , who shall ordain this fast , or who shall appoint the day of celebration thereof ? If it be necessary to remonstrate to the Kings Majestie , the complaint of all the Churches in generall , who shall depute the partie that shall present the Petition of the Churches of the whole Kingdom ? If upon any occasion it be found needfull to alter any thing in the Discipline of the Church in generall , and to make any new necessary Orders in the same , to be observed generally , can this be done by particular Consistories being Independent , and who are not subject to any generall Ordinance ? In brief , It ought to be believed that the Dependencie of particular Churches to superiour powers , is that which maintains the union of the Church , and this being taken away , there would remain no more correspondencie , but a wilfull and wofull confusion would soon appear . No man ought to be judge in his own cause . But if there happen a contention between two Churches ( as it happeneth too often ) neither of these two Churches can be judge in their own cause , and of necessity there must be reliefe by a superiour authority , else all will be naught between them , I will not believe ( though I confesse there is cause of jealousie ) that those that desire this Independencie have any intelligence with the enemie , and that thereby they seeke ( under pretence of Reformation ) to bring us into a confusion , or at least to expose us to the laughter of our enemies , though , I say , I fear this , by many Symptomes thereof , I rather will ( in charity ) believe they err through want of experience , and knowledge of what is profitable for the Church of God . The end of every good Christian and Common-wealths man , is to glorifie God in maintaining his true Religion , to serve the King in the preservation of his royall person and dignity , and to procure the Common good in maintaining justice , and liberty of the Subject and Kingdom . All these ( though three branches ) arise and spring from one root , and have the same essense and being : But it is impossible that any man should truly affect the King or Common-wealth that is slight and negligent in Religion , nor can any man fully discharge his duty to God , that is not carefull of King and Common-wealth , See then ô Independents , by this foresaid solid judgement , how feeble and false , yea , how dangerous and destructive your Independent Church-way is . The Lord open your eyes to see it , and give you hearts affected with much sorrow for your obstinacie in it , and in his good time , graciously convert you from it , to embrace Peace and Truth with your Presbyterian Brethren , thus prayes . Yours , J. V. FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A95897e-2140 Ill weeds grow apace . Want of weeding of Gods Garden , the Church . Plain-English . 1 Pretended Piety and holinesse of life one great cause of the growth of Independencie . 2 Pretence of Preaching Sound Doctrine another Cause of Independents growth among us . Schismaticks are like Salamanders . 1 Pretence of Preaching sound Doctrine a cause of Independents growth . Sound-Doctrine overthrown by our Independents . A pregnant S●●●le . The Word & Sacraments are the Vineyard or Garden of the Lord . Godly Government or Scripturall Church-Discipline is the Wall or Fence about it . Fals-doctrines preached and broached by Independents and other Sectaries . Object . Answ . Toleration & Liberty of Conscience the only Inlets for all other abominable Opinions . Iudges 15. 3 , 4. Independents and all other Sectaries compared most fitly to Sampsons Foxes . 2 Pretended Piety a second Cause of Independents growth among us . The seeming Holinesse of Hereticks of the Primitive Church . The outward seeming Holy Lives of the Scribes and Pharisees in our Saviours time . 2 Cor. 11. 13 , 14. Mark this , ô all yee honest and plain hearted Christians , that are apt to be deceived and seduced . Holinesse of Life is a false Touchstone to try Sound men by . 1 Cor. 11. 1. Soundnesse in Doctrine is a true Touchstone to try a sound man by Gal. 1. 7 , 8. Soundnesse in doctrine though accompanied with humane infirmities is a safer way to try men , than seeming-exact walking accompanied with errours in doctrine . The main promised point , now , proved . The certain Characters of a truly Godly-man . Psal. 15. 24 , 4. Matth. 7. 12. Revel. 22. 15. A pretty passage concerning M. Peters . Independents a Generation of notorious Dissemblers & sly Deceivers . Isaiah 62. 1. Cretensis , p. 5. M. Iohn Goodwins Retrimentitious-Party of Sectaries . The five famous Apologists . The Apologeticall Narration intended by the Independents for their credit , proved far otherwise . The Apologists are Gods poore Exiles ; and How . Antapol . p. 190 191. Apol. Nar. p. 22. Apol. Nar. p. 5. & 6. See heere the most strange & unblushing false dealing of the Independents with Presbyterians , contrary to their own words and protestations . Another notable and undenyable false dealing of the Independents with the Presbyterians . Antapolo . p. 213 See heere also how most unblushingly the Independents deal falsly with the Presbyterians . A notable passage of fallacy , in the Independents acted by Mr. Phil●p Nye , one of their grand Politicians . A remarkable discovery of the Independents notorious subtilty & Double-dealing . Mr. Nye palpably coozens Mr. Calamy of the Writing or Instrument that tyed the Independents to be honest . Antapol . p. 243 The most shamelesse & slanderous Remonstrance against the Assembly of Divines owned and subscribed by seven of the most eminent Independents . The Independents Double-dealing about their Apolog. Narration . The strange & most urgent & earnest importunity of the Presbyterians to procure a Modell of the Independents Church-Government . Answer to the Remonstrance Mr. Tho : Goodwin , at last , chosen , by the Independents to frame their new-Modell of their Church-way . Parturiunt Montes nascitur ridiculus Mus. A most shamelesse and slanderous Remonstrance against the Assembly exhibited to the Assembly ( instead of their New-Modell ) by seven of the most eminent Independents . The perfect practice of Deceives . An Answer of the Assembly of Divines to the Remonstrance of the Independents In Mr. Burton in his Sermon ; For God and the King , p. 109. A fair tale told by the Sectaries for themselves . Still , more notorious double dealing , under the Independents own hands . Mr. Iohn Goodwin . Mr. Burton . Christ upon his Throne . Mr. Iohn Lilburn . Arraignment of Mr. Persesecution . The notorious Double-dealing of Independents touching the power of Parliaments in Church-Government and matters of Religion . The Peace-maker , pag. 3. &c. The Protestation protested . Mr. I. G. in his 12. serious . Cautions , &c. Luke 18. 11 , 12. The Last Warning to London . Our holy Covenant made an ensnaring dangerous Dilemma to our consciences by the Independents subtilties . The Peace-maker . Ierem. 9. 4. An Independent jugling trick play'd by Doctor Homes with his Parishioners . Ier. 9. 4. Mr. Iohn Bachilers approbation of a company of most pernicicious & schismaticall Pamphlets , yet pretends all to be pious , sound and good . M. Saltmarsh his singular testimony of M. Edwards his Preaching and conference . Toichoructa , or , Independents razing their own foundation . A remarkable piece of Independents impiety . Mat. 18. 16. A prettie Independent evasion of all hitherto urged against independents . New-Lights . Vindication p. 58. Donec ad Triarios redieritres . Independents emptie New-lights , and Popish equivocation compared together . Ioel 2. 18. Acts 2. 16 , 17. The extreme impiety , folly , and absurdity of the audacious Sectaries both man and wom●n of our times , under a pretence of New-Light , from the Prophesie of Ioel. 1 Cor. 14. 34 1 Tim. 2 11 , 12 & 1 Pet. 2. 15. Iam. 13 , 14 , 15. Here is an old Light , and a true light indred . The Independent Saints infirmities must not bee medled with . Cretensis , p. 4. Not only the Retrimentitious-party , but the gravest Grandees of the Independent-party . Sins of Infirmity briefly described . Ragining sins briefly described . No errour into be accounted a small sin . The Independents tax the Presbyterians with piety for writing against their errours openly . Galat. 2. 11. Ibid. 2. 9. Titus 1. 13. Iohn 18 37. Acts 19. 25. Revel. 22. 11.