Dialogicall discourses of spirits and divels declaring their proper essence, natures, dispositions, and operations, their possessions and dispossessions : with other the appendantes, peculiarly appertaining to those speciall points, verie conducent, and pertinent to the timely procuring of some Christian conformitie in iudgement, for the peaceable compounding of the late sprong controuersies concerning all such intricate and difficult doubts / by [brace] Iohn Deacon, Iohn Walker... Deacon, John, fl. 1585-1616. 1601 Approx. 1145 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 203 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2004-03 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A20000 STC 6439 ESTC S323 22282134 ocm 22282134 25312 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A20000) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 25312) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 1750:8) Dialogicall discourses of spirits and divels declaring their proper essence, natures, dispositions, and operations, their possessions and dispossessions : with other the appendantes, peculiarly appertaining to those speciall points, verie conducent, and pertinent to the timely procuring of some Christian conformitie in iudgement, for the peaceable compounding of the late sprong controuersies concerning all such intricate and difficult doubts / by [brace] Iohn Deacon, Iohn Walker... Deacon, John, fl. 1585-1616. Walker, John, preacher. [32], 356, [12] p. Impensis Geor. 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Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Spirits -- Early works to 1800. Demonology -- Early works to 1800. 2003-04 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-05 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2003-07 Judith Siefring Sampled and proofread 2003-12 Aptara Rekeyed and resubmitted 2004-01 Judith Siefring Sampled and proofread 2004-01 Judith Siefring Text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion DIALOGICALL Discourses of SPIRITS and DIVELS . Declaring their proper essence , natures , dispositions , and operations : their possessions , and dispossessions : with other the appendantes , peculiarly appertaining to those speciall points . Verie conducent , and pertinent to the timely procuring of some Christian conformitie in iudgement : for the peaceable compounding of the late sprong controuersies concerning all such intricate and difficult doubts . By IOHN DEACON . IOHN WALKER . Preachers . If there shall arise among you , a prophet , or a dreamer of dreames , & giue thee a signe or woonder : and the signe or woonder which he haue tolde thee come to passe , saying : Let vs go after other gods which thou knowest not , and let vs serue them . Thou shalt not hearken to the words of that prophet , or to that dreamer of dreams : for , the Lord your God prooueth you , to know whether ye loue the Lord your God with all your hart , and with all your soule . Deut. 13. 1. 2. 3. If any shall say vnto you , Lo heere is Christ , or there is Christ ; Beleeue them not therefore , for there shall arise false Christes , and false Prophets , and shall shew great signes and woonders : so that if it were possible , they should deceiue the verie elect . Matth. 24. 23. 24. Aug. De Trinitate . Quisquis audit , vel legit , vbi pariter certus est , pergat mecum : vbi pariter haesitat , quaerat mecum : vbi errorem suum cognoscit , redeat mecum : vbi meum , reuocet me . Ita ingrediamur simul charitatis viam : tendentes ad eum , de quo scriptum est , quaerite faciem eius semper . That is , Whosoeuer heareth , or readeth , where he is perswaded with me , let him proceede with me : where he is doubtfull , let him inquire with me : where he acknowledgeth his errour , let him returne with me : where he espieth mine , let him recall me . So shall we walke ioyntly togither , in the way of charitie : going foreward towards him , of whom it is written , Seeke yee his face euermore . Propugnaculum vitae patientia . LONDINI , Impensis Geor. Bishop . 1601. TO THE RIGHT Honorable and righteous Iudges , Sir THOMAS EGERTON knight , Lord Keeper of the great Seale of England : Sir IOHN POPHAM knight , Lord cheefe Iustice of England : Sir EDMVND ANDERSON knight , Lord cheefe Iustice of the common Pleas : and Sir WILLIAM PERIAM knight , Lord cheefe Baron of the Exchequer , with other the most reuerend Iudges of the common Lawes of England : I. D. and I. W. do hartily wish all sauing knowledge in Iesus Christ. RIGHT Honorable Lords , you may not possiblie be ignorant of the late-bred broyles not long since brewed & broached at Nottingham , by meanes of Sommers his supposed possession and dispossession : especially , those selfesame broyles being eftsoones reuiued since , and now also ( by what priuiledge we wotte not ) so publikely reported in Print , as their flying rumours doe mightilie ouer-runne the whole Realme , yea , euen to the vttermost borders thereof . We two , did vndoubtedly assure our selues that the holie regard of Religion ; of loyall obedience to her Maiesties Princely prerogatiue : of the publike peace of the Church : of due reuerence to her Maiesties positiue Lawes : of dutifull submission to the definitiue sentence of Iustice : of common humanitie towards the persons of men : yea , and of a carefull continuance of their honest reputations ; woulde something haue restrained , if not vtterly inhibited the parties ( especially conuicted ) from the vntimely attempting of any such vnorderly course , as now ( by their newly published Pamphletes ) they haue most vndutifully blazed abroad . And therefore , the Christian care of that their hoped moderate cariage , hath caused vs hitherto euen purposely to suppresse this folowing Treatise , which ( almost three yeeres since ) we had euen carefully ●ompyled , as a christian counter-checke to al such vnwoonted occurrents : yea , and this our former ▪ suppressing thereof , proceeded ( we assure you ) from a felow-like feare of procuring vntimely disgrace , and of adding affliction to the principall parties themselues . Esteeming it much better , to burie our precedent labours in the graue of forgetfulnes : then ( by any their needlesse publishing ) to procure a present disturbance , or to hatch a subsequent broyle in the Church , by pestering the same with such impertinent , obscure and needlesse paradoxes , as in their books are broched abroad . Howbeit , perceiuing the principall parties , with other their vnder-hand fauorites ( as it were in a setled pertinacie ) not onely to hold all those their former phantasticall toies with tooth and naile , but ( which more is ) thus preposterously , and ( perhaps also with the secret support of their vnder-hand Fauorites ) thus vndutifully to pursue the same with such publike disgrace of publike persons , notwithstanding any the precedent countermaunds , or definitiue determinations of publike authoritie : we verily thought , and our owne conscience did witnes against vs in the presence of God : that we might iustly be deemed too too irreligious towards the Lord : disloyall to her Maiesties Princely prerogatiue : ouer-much carelesse of publike peace : exceeding remisse concerning the positiue Lawes of our land : most derogatorious to the definitiue sentence of iustice : monstrous inhumane towards the persons of men : yea , altogither carelesse of our honest reputations : if that light , which the Lord in mercie ( we hope ) hath reuealed vnto vs , should now any longer Lie buried vnder a bushell , and not rather be set on a candlesticke , for the better enlightning of all in the house concerning these intricate and hidden mysteries . More especially now at this present , when the fearefull infection of those their factious proceedings , so vniuersally , and so dangerously ouer spreadeth it selfe : not vnlike to the fretting Gangrena , or incurable Canker . Experienced Antiquaries ( right honorable Lords ) doe verie well know , to what dangerous heads such si●ly beginnings , haue ( by carelesse negligence ) growen in continuance of time : and therefore , euen the verie primarie appearances of euerie such fearefull occurrent , would be the more warelie and more wisely nipt in the head , yea , and the streaming courses thereof the more heedfully intercepted and stopped in time , for feare of ouerflowing the yoong buds of our holy Religion . For these speciall respects wee haue now proffered our labours to publike view , and doe verie humblie importune your Honors patronage , and fauourable protection for them : so farre foorth especially as they fully accord with the infallible truth of the Scriptures . We protest ( right Honorable Lords ) that we our selues ( in penning this Treatise ) did euen purposely resolue with our soules , to banish all partiall and priuate respects from out of our brests : as may ( by the matter and method thereof ) verie plainely appeere to any indifferent Reader . Yea wee wholie deuoted our selues , to penne onely such speciall points as other writers report and record in their seuerall workes ; and which in our owne consciences ( before the presence of God ) we are hitherto perswaded are vndoubtedly true : desiring with all our harts to be better and more fully informed ( wherein we haply may erre ) by the holie endeuours of such as the Lord hath in mercie enlightened with a more syncere and sanctified knowledge concerning these points . The speciall motiues for our thus dedicating to your good Honors , all ioyntly togither this published Treatise : are these that folow in order . 1 First , your wisedomes hauing heretofore , very orderlie enquired , into , and iudicially determined the vndoubted truth of those the aforesaid occurrents : we verily perswaded our selues , that as you are therefore the most able , so would you be also the more willing , to approoue , or disprooue of our labors herein , according to those your former proceedings , and the holy directions of the eternall God. 2 The aduerse parties themselues , hauing ( partly by their published Pamphlets , and partly also , by their priuate solicitours ) verie often , and earnestly laboured , either all , or the most of your Honors to some fauourable regard of their languishing cause : wee in like manner ( esteeming your wisedomes the most competent Iudges heerein ) do therefore referre the due triall of our trauels , much rather to your Honors , then to any her Maiesties high Commissioners in Ecclesiasticall causes : partly , because , they ( being themselues esteemed but parties herein , and openly challenged of vnequall proceedings ) might haply be deemed by the aduerse part but incompetent Iudges : and partly , for that your good Honors especially , being euerie way free from such exception , may therefore , become the more willing to heare and determine the truth of these matters . 3 Moreouer , considering eftsoones with our selues , that , those often , and earnest solicitings of parties on both sides ( they arguing especially the controuerted causes with such flat oppositions ) might haply but breed in your Honorable breasts , some scruple of conscience about the vndoubted truth of such intricate questions : we did therefore account it our bounden dutie , to yeeld your good Honors our holiest supplies , for the better enlightning of your present iudgements in the hidden mysteries of those cloudie occurrents . 4 Lastly , your good Honors next vnder her supereminent highnes , enioying a primarie subordinate power concerning the authenticall hearing and determining of such and so shamefull disorders as do daily discouer themselues in those disordered persons , who seeke ( in such a malcontented humour ) to vphold , and maintaine those quaint matters in question : we were the rather induced to tender our trauels to your Honorable protections . That so , your good Honors ( by your approoued authoritie ) might , the more authentically command the aduerse parties themselues , foorthwith to desist from their former factious courses , and humblie submit to the truth of the Treatise , it being substantiallie sounde : or otherwise , in more dutifull sort to addresse their holiest endeuours to some sounder , and honester maner of answering , then hitherto they haue shewed to the world . We looke euerie hower ( right Honorable Lords to be notoriously branded with the blacke coale of vnchristian reproches , such and so scandalous are the cankred mouthes of some clamorous companions : who ( not vnlike to the benumming Torpedo ) do purposely endeuour by their intoxicated and most slanderous reuilings , to astonish the verie hands of so many as presume to put penne to the paper , against any their irregular practises . Seeing therefore it is vtterly impossible the Leopard should alter his spots , we do assuredly expect when their Pulpits shall ring out , and their night crowing Pamphlets proclaime to the world , that such two , are quite falne from the brethren and their cause , they know not well what : that they are become Apostates , reuolters , backsliders , formalistes , and such as fawne on the state : and this onely , for that we fauour not forsooth , these their Cabalisticall conceits and phantasticall fooleries . Well , whatsoeuer they prate , we will vndergo it with patience , not passing one pinne , to be iudged of them , or of any mans iudgement else : no , we iudge not our owne selues . For , we know nothing by our owne selues : and yet are we not thereby iustified : but he that iudgeth vs both is the Lord. And as for that their odious name of Formalists : wherewith especially they sport themselues most in branding their brethren , we regard not therein their virulent reuilings one rush : hauing ( in a more mature deliberation ) experimented long since , the graue councell of Drusius to sound verie sutablie with the sacred Scriptures , saying thus , Esto potius cauda Leonum , quam caput Vulpium . Hoc est , da operam , vt potius sis postremus inter viros generosos : quam primus inter callidos versipelles . Be thou rather the verie taile of Lyons , then the head of Foxes . That is , do thou giue thy endeuour , to be rather the last , or the lowest among noble , and gentillike persons : then the first , or the highest , among that base crew of craftie vndermining companions , and heere we haue set downe our rest . Hauing hitherto ( right Honorable Lords ) verie brieflie displaied our maine purpose concerning the first penning and publishing of this folowing Treatise : we do now ( in all humble submission ) refer our selues and our sutes to your approoued considerations , and your good Honors to the almightie his holie directions , in this one and all other your iudiciall proceedings . So be it . Your good Honors verie humblie a● commaund in the Lord : and the Lord his vnwoorthiest on earth , IOHN DEACON . IOHN WALKER . To the godly affected Reader , I. D. and I. W. doe hartily wish the howerly encrease of a true sauing knowledge , by the reuelation of Iesus Christ. So be it . GOod Christian Reader , we doe ( in this following treatise ) present to thy publike consideration , our priuat opinion concerning the vndoubted possession and dispossession of Diuels . Assuring our selues to gaine foorthwith thy holy approbation heerein : so farre foorth especially , as thou perceiuest the same to fall foorth pat in euerie point with the infallible truth of the Lord. The originall occasion of this our lately attempted enterprise : did primarily proceed from those late vnwoonted occurrents which accidentally fell foorth in our countrey , about the supposed possession and dispossession of Sommers . An accident ( we doe freely confesse ) no lesse notoriously knowen throughout the whole land then diuersly entertayned , according to the variable & diuers affections of men . The maine argument of the treatise it selfe , is a matter ( we assure thee ) not rashly resolued vpon , but seriously held and maintayned ( by the one of vs especially ) for many yeeres past : as fiue hundred yet liuing are able to witnes , and the other of vs also ( in an experimented knowledge ) both can and doth testifie the same by these presents . For the verie first newes of this newly supposed rare accident , recalling vs both afresh to some serious consideration of our former set studies : did so diuersly affect our mindes with a diuerse and contrarie iudgement ( the one verie constantly auouching , the other no lesse confidently impugning that falsely pretended action ) as we both became resolute ( with tooth and nayle ) to trie forth the certaine truth or vntruth at the least , of our sundrie conceits concerning the matter in question . Yea , and ( which more is ) we so deepely deuoted our selues to the timely support of those our seuerall opinions : as no one labour ( how loathsome soeuer ) was yrkesome vnto vs , which tended that way , but in the least shew of appearance . For what one Librarie was vnransackt , or learned brother vnconferred withall wheresoeuer we came : to further vs both in those seuerall points we seuerally held ? What one iourney was refused , or present toyle vnattempted , to trie foorth the sound truth of such flying reports as ranne all abroad : and all this for the more enabling , and the better furnishing of vs to that our former determined skirmish ? What sundrie and often recourses the one to the other ? What entercourse of writings ? What mutuall conferences ? What hot disputes ? What arguings ? What answerings ? What replies , and reioynders : or euer we could fitly accord about the seuerall questions propounded betweene vs ? And ( which is more to be considered ) the contention it selfe concerning these matters , it became no lesse violent then that betweene Paul and Barnabas , about the hauing of Iohn Marke in their companie : in so much as we eftsoones departed asunder the one from the other . Howbeit that onely wise God , who turneth the infirmities of his seruants to the furtherance of his glorie , he did so moderate our mindes concerning the action in hande , as wee both of vs fully resolued to stande fast to our tacklings : and thereupon also ( by an interchangeable couenant ) did foorthwith conclude to continue this newly attempted controuersie , vntill ( by the verie sway of truth ) the one be enforced , dare manus , to hold foorth the hand , and submit to the other . And herein also we found euerie hower , the fauorable assistance of Gods holy spirit for the timely suggesting of many strange and vnwoonted matters , which haue not hetherto beene vsually heard of concerning the question it selfe . With these many meditations and seuerall conferences we were wholy taken vp , till the verie truth it selfe ( as we verily beleeue ) began ( after many debatings and bickerings ) to breake foorth like the sunne in his strength , Whereupon also , we eftsoones began to speake both of vs but one and the selfesame things : and ( which more is ) being now knit together in one minde and one iudgement concerning these seuerall matters , we determined foorthwith to put downe in writing , whatsoeuer had deliberately passed betweene vs. Purposing withall to vse the priuate contemplation of these our primarie labours ; as a prouoking sharpe ●pur to pricke vs eftsoones an ende vnto the timely vndertaking of the like priuate conference , in some other matters else of like waightie importance . That ( being by this meanes sequestred quite from all secular cares ) we might the more freely imploy our whole mindes to such secret meditations as should further the timely discharge of our seuerall duties . Perceiuing moreouer by the timely dispatch of this one intricate matter : that two conscionable ministers conioyning their studies ( being both of them industrious & bent wholy in hart , to search and to find forth wisedome by althings that are done vnder heauen ) might ( by such mutuall endeuours ) verie easily accomplish many profitable workes for themselues and some others . Howbeit , for the putting ouer of these our priuate labours to the publike veiw of the world , that ( we assure thee ) was neuer in our thoughts at the first : no , we did fully resolue to keepe these our conferences , from the sight of all others , saue onely our selues , for these following reasons . First , we were greatly discouraged from the publication hereof in an onely regard of our proper imperfections , for the skilfull determining of such intricate doubts : acknowledging our manifold wants to be such & so great , as we were mightily afraid to put the due trial of our skil vpon termes . And for this cause we durst not attempt the tendring of our owne , but hourely expected from some others of more maturity ; a booke better ballanced , for the timely encoūtring with such late bred broiles as concerned especially those vnwonted occurrents . Secondly , our said purpose for publishing this treatise , was also eftsoones nipt in the head ; by often recounting the new-fangled nicenesse of this present age : wherein , nothing almost , is now pleasing to any ( especially the curious companions ) but that which ( being euery way concluded first in scholasticall forme ) is also , very finely florished ouer with a Ciceronian vernish . And therefore perceiuing these our labors to come short of such reckoning : we verely perswaded our selues , that , this plaine coine of ours , would hardly passe with those cinicall censurers , for currant good paiment . Thirdly , the maturity and ripenesse of many ministers , and others among whom we conuerse : was not the least stoppage vnto vs. For , we are not ignorant , that men ( now a daies ) being very acute in conceite , & too too much ready ( with eagle-like eies ) to prie exactly into any thing publisht in print : are euery way able , and apt enough also to censure ( so sharply as may be ) the published labours of others , how lazy or leaden-heeled soeuer in laying foorth their owne proper talents to the greatest aduantage . Fourthly , our compassionable care to profit , and our exceeding great loathenesse to preiudice the parties them selues , or to aggrauate ( with the waight of one finger ) the present afflictions of those whom this treatise of ours more especially concernes : hath hitherto forestalled our purpose from publishing our present labours . Being in very great feare that these our pretious balmes ( how soueraine soeuer ) would rather breake their heads , then bind vp their bleeding wounds : the physicall composition of our oile and our wine , it is so vntoothsome a triacle to their distempered humour , and vnsauory tast . Lastly , we haue thus long been held back from making our conferences common to others , in an especiall regard of that christian conceit which we haue hitherto had of their christian conformity to a more dexterity : together with the needlesnes ( as we thought ) in publishing any other new matter concerning this argument . Both , because authority it selfe had seised vpon them long since : and for that also the printed report of the commissioners iudiciall proceedings against them , might ( as we verily thought ) haue been fully sufficient ( for many respects ) to quiet their passionate spirits , and to calme the turbulent tempests arising from thence . For , if the good man of God ( he hauing a far better cause and calling then these men , to persist and hold out in his purpose attempted ) did notwithstanding , very duetifully submit to Amaziah his princely commaund concerning his silencing : we verily perswaded our selues , that Qu●ene Elizabeths authenticall commission concerning ecclesiasticall persons and causes , ( in due regard of their dueties to God and her Maiesty ) might haue enioined them , both to lay their hand on their mouth , and to put a present end to their further proceedings , in a practise especially so directly opposite to her princely prerogatiue so authentically debated , and the same so iudicially also determined . Loe , these ( in effect ) were the maine reasons them selues which hetherto with held vs both , from profering our labours to the publique veiw of the world . If happely it seeme strang vnto any , that we should now so suddainely desist from such a determined purpose ; it may please them to consider afresh , that , for as much as some malefactours ( notwithstanding their palpable crimes ) in a malcontented humour , doe couertly vndermine and nibble in corners , the honourable credit of her Maiesties high commission : therefore busie must needs haue a band . And , in that onely respect ( besides the importunities of such as haue eftsoones considerately perused the worke ) we also our owne selues haue had our latter cogitations , concerning some seasonable manifestation thereof at this present , and that more especially for these following reasons . First , our harty true zeale to the glory of God , the same also entermingled eftsoones with some christian care for many poore ignorant soules , as also , with an vnfained loue of that truth , quae nihil veretur nisi abscōdi , which feareth nothing more deepely , then to be fearefully entombed in the gulph of forgetfulnesse : doe , euen peremptorily prouoke vs both , to proceede recto pectore , with all integrity and vprightnesse of hart , in the now publishing of this our entended enterprize . Secondly , we are so much the more willingly drawen to exhibit our trauels to publique vew : by how much we do now very plainely perceiue , that , our Antagonists printed opinion , concerning the perpetuity of such supernaturall and miraculous operations in these daies of the Gospel : doth fearefully shake , and very shrewdly vndermine the certeinty and vndoubted assurance of that sacred religion which we all iointly professe . For , if our said religion standeth perpetually in need to bee eftsoones confirmed afresh , by the extraordinary seale of any such extraordinary or miraculous actions ? How then should we certainely know when the vndoubted assurance thereof is certainely and sufficiently confirmed vnto vs ? Sith that thing which eftsoones admitteth such essentiall supplies : doth implicatiuely import some manner of imperfection , in some shew at the least . Thridly , we were also the rather perswaded thereto , in an especiall regard of that fearfull effect which must necessarily succeed so absurd a conceit . For this their pestilent opinion which concerneth the working of miracles in these daies of the Gospell , what doth it else ( in effect ) but iniuriously put vpon faithfull professors , the liuely cognizance , the liuerie or badge of that Antichristian brood , to whom the vnwoonted accomplishment of such lying signes and woonders ( by the speciall permission of God ) doth peculiarly and properly appertaine from time to time . And therefore , that any true professour of the Gospell , should now appropriate that selfe same power to himselfe which onely is proper to Antichrist : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : aut Plato Philonissat , aut Philo Platonissat : either the Protestant he plaies kindly the Papist , or the Papist he plaies correspondently the Protestant at least : for in this speciall point , the one is not apparantly discerned from the other . Fourthly , we were now the more forward that way , because this their pestiferous opinion , doth offer directly a verie shrewd checke to such other verie reuerend Preachers , as either cannot or dare not ( vpon any the like extraordinarie occasion ) aduenture ( hand ouer head ) vpon any the like exordinarie course . For had not these preposterous practises with a prouident circumspection beene warily preuented in time : surely , the vulgar sort ( whose shallow reach concerning especially such intricate cases , neque coelum neque terram attingere potest , and whose censure herein is like to hearbe Iohn in the pottage ) they would ( notwithstanding their wants whatsoeuer ) vno ore , with one mouth ( as it were ) haue cried foorth thus , M. Darel , M. Darell , he is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the onely D●uiner of signes and of woonders : his ministerie shall haue my onely applause . Yea , and ( which more is ) the very country Dames they would with their tatling toongs haue told it in Gath , that M. Darel alone he hath Delphicum gladium , the double edged Delphicall sword : both to gard the good Christian , & to girde vp the Diuell in a corner . As for our silie Sir Iohn he is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Asinus portans mysteria , an asse in a fryers cowle , a cipher in Algurisme : or rather , a leaden sword in a siluer scabbard . And thus the whole countrey they would ( in continuance of time ) verie fearfully haue fallen vnto the Corinthian factions , some holding of Paul , and some of Apollos : where as it is the Lord alone who giues the encrease . Fiftly , an apparant necessity for the now publishing of this or some other like treatise , very apparantly breakes foorth to the view of the world : in an especiall regard of the great inconuenience , or rather the most palpable absurdity ensuing so absurd an opinion . For , if that with such other supposed miraculous actions , are now ( as them selues very fondly auouch ) effected by the onely vertue and power of the true iustifying faith : what wonderfull scruple of conscience might that so absurd a conceit procure to such silly poore soules , as ( being eftsoones perswaded of their iustifying faith ) can at no hand effect the like admirable actions ? Considering especially , that one and the selfesame faith , cannot possibly but haue ( in some measure at least ) the very selfesame effects . Sixtly , we are now the more foreward in publishing these our late labours abroad to the world ; as wel , to intimate our harty desires for the timely satisfying of others , about the fearefull possessions , and dispossessions of diuels , as also ( if this our proper opinion be deemed but doubtfull ) to procure from some others of better ability , a more absolute censure , or iudiciall determination concerning these so intricate and doubtfull occurrents . Seuenthly , we doe now the rather exhibit these our present conferences to the consideration of all : that we might ( by this meanes ) more especially make knowen to the world , our christian care for the timely recouery of the principall parties them selues : who ( hauing hitherto , but lightly regarded the christian compassions of such as haue carefully sought their christian conuersion ) must now ( of necessity ) be saued with feare , through a more violent withdrawing of them from the fier , according to Ben-Sirah his sacred aduise , saying thus as followeth . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , idest . Sapientem nutu ; et stultum fuste . Correct the wise with a nodde : and , the vnwise with a club . Signifying thereby vnto vs , that , whereas all manner of lenitie is foorthwith to be vsed towards those that are tractable : the knottie or knurrie hard logs , doe craue strong yron wedges , and many hard strokes to bring them in good order . Eightly , we were also the more willing in this our determined purpose , the rather to put some present good ende ( if we possibly might ) to the indirect dealings , and preposterous proceedings of such as haue preposterously taken vpon them those preposterous practises . Who ( being by all outward appearance of truth , and perhaps in their owne conscience to ) verie iudicially conuinced for grosse malefactors : doe notwithstanding all this verie malapertly endeuour to mannage their owne contradictorie courses , against the authenticall countermaunds of her Maiesties lawfull authority . Yea , and this also with most apparant deprauings , disgracings , reuilings and tauntings . Moreouer , with lying , with cogging and circumuenting deuises . Whereas Ladie truth , the more simple shee is , the more shining shee is : at no hand affecting any such bumbasted brauados , to support or beare vp her vnanswerable edicts , how base or how simple soeuer in outward appearance . Ninthly , we were lead in like manner to this late publike proceeding , in an especiall regard of our woonderfull lothnes that so many palpable vntruths , and such pestiferous opinions ( as in those their published Pamphlets and printed Apologies are broached but lately abroad , to the dangerous bewitching and desperate enchanting of many poore ignorant vnstable soules ) should so passe vnderhand in the publike veiw of tagge and ragge , without the timely controlement of any : or runne abroad ( as they doe ) from hand to hand for good currant payment , or euer they be tried with the touch-stone of truth , and before they be throughly waighed with the approoued waights of the sanctuarie : or not hauing vpon them some discretiue stampe or discerning censure at least . Lastly , our loyall obedience , and conscionable duties towards the timelie vpholding of the Magistrates authenticall authoritie and credit , which these men ( in all the rest , more especiallie , in that their verie last vndutifull deprauing Pamphlets ) like petie yoong presses , vnderminingly haue publisht in print , without any her Maiesties authenticall priuiledge : was not ( we assure thee ) the least motiue in duty , ( howsoeuer the last in degree ) to this our lately pretended purpose . The premisses therefore exactly considered , & the reasons themselues being dulie perpended in a more dutifull regard of her Maiesties supereminent authority ouer al persons & causes in Christ : we doubt not at all , but that ( notwithstanding our former resolutions concerning the respectiue suppressing of these our priuate endeuours ) the wiser sort , will verie willingly dispence with their publishing now at this present especially : wherein ( it may shrewdly be feared ) the wilde trees of the Forrest doe couertlie combine themselues of a verie set purpose to make the proud bramble-bush some mightie Magnifico in their secret assemblies . These occasions considered with a right respect , we doubt not at all , but , that this our now published Treatise , will bee deemed as a worde deliuered in due season : to so many especially , as doe sincerely affect the glorie of God : as doe ( with a prouident circumspection ) endeuour to propagate the Gospel of Christ : brieflie , as doe conscionablie praie for , and dutifullie pursue that prosperitie of Ierusalem , wherein righteousnesse and peace haue kissed each other . As for the rest , we waight euerie hower when their lauish toongs will be lashing abroad , and their intemperate pens will be Printing in corners , King Achab his peremptorie proclamation against vs : exclaming in their outrage , & crying vnto vs , Haue you found vs , O our enimies , haue you found vs indeed . And will you in no wise prophesie any other but euill vnto vs ? Well , whatsoeuer will be the issue of that their intemperate humour , all their exceptions ( how virulent soeuer ) they must be such ( we are sure ) as concerne either our persons : or our cause at the least . Their exceptions against our persons , they must respectiuelie concerne , either our skill in learning : or , our cariage of life . Touching any our great skill of learning , we both know , and do freely confesse ( as before ) that we are ( euen in our owne eies ) minimi Apostolorum , the verie last and the least of ten thousand : that we were borne out of due time , and are vtterly vnwoorthy the neme of publike preaohers . Howbeit , by the grace of God , we are that we are , & his graces ( we hope ) they were not bestowed vpon vs in vaine . Besides all this , the more vnskilfull we be for such publike writing , the more able our aduersaries are ( with their exceeding great skill ) to answere whatsoeuer we write . As for our carriage of life , their exceptions that way , they must haue a more speciall relation , either to our precedent : or to our now present practises at least . Our precedent practises ( when they were at the woorst ) they were none other then those that doe ordinarily attend vpon the corrupt nature of men : and therfore howsoeuer they themselues ( in any Pharisaicall conceit of their owne proper strength ) may haply imagine themselues to be able to stand , let them ( if they be wise ) beware least they fall . Howbeit , if for any matters past ( either truely knowen , or vncharitably suspected ) the vile venim of their venemous spirits would swell their cankred harts in sunder , vnlesse ( after their accustomed manner with all men ) they should 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , expose our persons to publike reproches : we will verie willingly vndergoe whatsoeuer disgrace the Lord ( for this cause ) allotteth vnto vs. And ( which more is ) we will with patience endure , that these furious dead dogs doe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Canem excoriatam excoriare : stay afresh our newly flaine carkasses , and adde affliction to our affliction . Assuring our selues that our gratious God who giues them this leaue to curse poore Dauid afresh ( so soone as proud railing Shimei hath spit foorth his venemous spite to the full , and vented the vttermost force of his limited furie ) he will then ( in a great mercie ) behold our afflictions this day , and bestow some present new blessing vpon vs. Touching any our now present practises ( howsoeuer the common calumniatours of men may happely measure the proportion of our steps , by their owne proper footings , and so ouerreache vs a large inch at the least ) we doe here in the honour of Gods holy name ( with the protestation of our harts ) very freely acknowledge , that , albeit we our owne selues do know more by our selues then all the world else : yet ( we praise our good God ) we do ( at this present ) know nothing by our selues that may make vs afraid to confront the very holiest of them all to their face ; though ( notwithstanding all this ) we are not therefore iustified in the presence of him who iudgeth the hart . In the meane time , we thinke it some part of brotherly duety , to forewarne all those our calumnious accusers of this ; namely , that if they still make it their speciall glory to vndergo the gung-farmers office , or if they doe still take a singular pleasure to be rifling and raking in euery mans channel euen vp to their elbowes : may happily ( in the end ) defile their faire fingers , and procure a foule sauour to their owne proper persons . And therefore we do frendly aduise them , to desist from those cullion-like courses in time : or if ( because antiquum obtinet Crito ) their tatling toongs must needs he tampring that way in corners at least : then , let them begin first ( as we say ) ab ipso lare , to be holy at home : let them first make a Saint of their owne proper shrine : yea let them first pull foorth the beame from their owne , or euer they entermeddle with the little moate in their poor● brothers eie . Otherwise , they should shew them selues very like to the slouenly barber , who ( being to to curious in cutting , in washing and in trimming of others ) hath no care at all how deformedly he seemeth him selfe . Or , like to the curious eie , which very readily espieth the least spot that may be in any one member 〈…〉 body : but , beholdeth not the foule vgly blemishes it hath in it selfe . Briefly , else should they declare themselues to be the hundred eied Argos in other mens matters : but , the one eied polyphemus in their proper affaires : according to the old rustick verses saing thus . In rebus proprijs ijt Argus in Polyphemum . Rebus in alterius , transit Polyphemus in Argum. Proud Argus , he plaieth Polyphemus at home : Polyphemus plaieth Argus abroad like a mome . Briefly , let them withall assure them selues , that howsoeuer we two doe determine with Drusius and say , Audire praestat , quam dicere maledicta : It is much better to here euil of our selues , then to speake any euil of another ) yet , eftsoones it so comes to passe , vt , qui pergit quae vult dicere , quae non vult audiet , that he which takes pleasure to speake what he please , he must now and then be content to heare what he would not : according to our english prouerbe which saith : qui mock at mockabitur : he that mocketh others in Elie , shal be mocked him selfe at Abbington . And all this ( in the iust iudgment of God ) is but lex talionis , the rendring of like for like . Their exceptions more especially concerning our cause , they are such as respect either the matter it selfe , or our manner of handling the same . The matter it selfe whatsoeuer , we doe freely offer to their publike view and are verie well willing the truth thereof ; be tried downe to the branne . In the triall whereof , if happely it fall foorth to be either hay , or straw , or stubble , and so by consequence become vtterly vnfit for the building in hand : we are content that the same be foorth with reiected of all , as a roauing rapsody vnworthy the reading . Touching our manner of handling the cause , their exceptions that way must necessarily be such as concerne the very forme it selfe : or our order in following the same . First for the forme it selfe , the same ( you see ) is Dialogicall : the which forme ( we are sure ) is no lesse ancient then authentically approoued of all , and therefore we know no one reason as yet , why we also our selues may not iustly challenge the priuiledge thereof if we please . If any may happily imagine we haue purposely propounded to our selues this dialogizing manner of dealing of a very set purpose : to the end , that by such a prosopopoeia , or faining of persons , we might gaine greater liberty to propound what seemeth good to our selues , and to girde at whose persons we please : our answere is this , that , the speakers produced in this present discourse , they are such as directly concerne the matters in question : and therefore , no man may iustly be offended therat , but he only that is tainted with those erronious absurdities , which vnder that name , are so couertly touched . Neither may any be iustly greeued , that we haue put downe manie moe obiections , then our aduersaries woulde euer haue made : for therein , we haue rather furthered , then foundered the free passage of their cause whatsoeuer . Yea , much more for mannaging their cause , is propounded by vs , then hath hitherto beene heard from themselues , or from any their fauorites : although wee haue purposely ploughed with their hey four from time to time , that we might be the more readie in reading their riddle . And therefore , they haue no reason to be grieued against vs for any thing , vnlesse happily for this : namely , for that ( to spare them a labour ) we haue framed them their answere aforehand , and buttoned vp their lips , or euer they begin to speake . Lastly , for our order in folowing the cause : we wotte not well what to answere , before wee heare what they obiect . In the meane time , this we plainely protest ; that if we haue beene to briefe : it was because we principally effected thy ease . If we haue been too tedious : the more was our toile . If we haue been to soft : it was in regard of thy holy sinceritie . If we haue beene something too sharpe : it was in respect of the parties vnsauerie taste . If we haue beene to milde : it was purposely done to breake ( with Goates bloud ) their Adamant harts . If we haue beene too bitter : that bitternes proceedes not from our maner of handling , but is onely in the bad matter of their humour , apprehending the same . If we haue beene too remisse in our answers : it was , because we found themselues ouer retchlesse in all their replies . If we haue beene too rough in reproouing : it was onelie , because experience hath taught vs , that the restie dull Iade , doth stand in most neede of the roughest rider of all , to curry his coate . Briefly , whatsoeuer we haue beene : for their owne , and thy sake we haue beene the same , as knoweth best the searcher of all harts . For as we haue set downe nothing but that , which ( before God ) we are hitherto perswaded is true : so haue we laboured with all our endeuors , to drawe thee and them to the timely participation thereof . And therefore , let matter and maner be what it will be : let vs finde this effect , and we desire no fauour at all in their answere . Onely , this is all we require for the present : namely , that the Answerer would put downe his owne name to his answere : that so , we our selues in replying , and they in impugning , may mutually know our proper Antagonists , which we holde a verie dutifull , an vpright , and honest proceeding . Otherwise , wee may iustly imagine , that they do either distrust their owne cause : or stand in some feare of discredit concerning the same . This course ( gentle Reader ) if haply our night-birds refuse , and yet notwithstanding will couertly flutter their wings , and keepe a vengeable coyle in Conuenticles and corners , like the Owle in an Iuie bush that dares not endure the birdes of the day : then ( for thy further satisfaction heerein ) do thou eftsoones propound to the parties themselues and their fauorites whatsoeuer , these folowing Queres . 1 Let it first be enquired , whether our gratious Queene Elizabeth hath absolute authoritie from God ( for the timely preuenting of errours , of schismes , and of factions , as also , for the happie continuance of publike peace ) to establish in any her princely Dominions an vniforme order ; that , no one Booke , Pamphlet , or Paper whatsoeuer shall be publisht in Print , before the same be exactly reuiewed by some speciall persons deputed thereunto , and haue also a publike priuiledge from vnder their hands for such publike passage ? 2 Whether all true harted subiects ( euen in conscience towards God and her Maiestie ) be not very strictlie bound to a precise obseruation of such an established order : and that therefore , when any erronious or offensiue opinion shall passe from the Presse with publike priuiledge ; whether the partie himselfe who espieth and desireth presently to encounter therewith , be not ( before he shall publikelie proceed to such publike encounter ) bound in conscience and dutie , first to intimate that errour to publike authoritie : that by such intimation , either the author of the errour may be made to retract it , or the partie enforming , at least may obtaine a speciall Commission for some orderly proceeding in the publike confutation thereof . 3 Lastly , whether such , & so many Bookes , pamphlets , or papers whatsoeuer , as heeretofore , or heereafter do couertly passe vnderhand from the Presse in a contrarie course : be not ( in an especiall regard of that authenticall order ) verie highly displeasing to God , and greatly derogatorious to her Maiesties prerogatiue royall , concerning all persons and causes in Christ : and whether those Bookes , pamphlets , or papers so disorderly publisht abroad , are not ( for such vndutifull disorder ) to be iustly esteemed of all true harted subiects , such dangerous libels as doe insolently encounter with , and directly vndermine her Maiesties princely preheminence : and that therefore , the verie authors themselues , they are to be reputed and punished as pestiferous Libellours against publike authoritie ? When the maine parties them selues , or the malcontented papists , whom ( as miracle-mongers ) we haue throughout our whole treatise euen purposly matched togither , and endeuored ( with one and the selfesame stone ) to beat downe for iangling blacke-birds both at a clap . When as they ( we say ) or any one of them all haue fully resolued thy minde concerning these Quaeres : then let them ( in Gods holy name ) verie freely proceed in their answere and spare not . Otherwise , if ( in an onely distrust of their cause ) they shall yet couer their weaknes , and excuse their not answering for want of authoritie : it shall be their best , either humbly to submit themselues to her Maiestie , or all ioyntly togither ( with the proscribed Apollonits before Apollo his golden tables ) verie pitifully to bewaile the irrecouerable subuersion of their seducing oracles , through the manifestation and mightie power of the Gospell , crying thus : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Heu tripodes lugete , perit praesagus Apollo , i. Ay me alas tripodes , perisheth presager Apollo . These things thus dispatched in order , it followeth now verie fitly in place to vnfold vnto thee the whole platforme obserued throughout the whole worke . First , therefore we haue alphabetically put downe the seueuerall names of the seuerall authors , whose seuerall authorities are purposely by vs produced : to the ende that whosoeuer will , may ( by knowing their names ) make diligent inquirie into all the quotations , and see whether we of our selues haue propounded any one point , which some others of antiquitie haue not before vs directly pointed vnto . Then next , we haue placed in order the seuerall arguments of eche seuerall Dialogue : to the ende that such and so many good soules as ( being perswaded of some points ) are yet verie doubtfull concerning some other : might ( if they please not to peruse the whole ) make their speciall choice of that which they chiefly affect . In like manner , we haue methodically prefixed before the maine treatise it selfe , a briefe Analysis or summarie resolution of al the whole tractate : and al this of very set purpose to propound to thy view ( at a blush ) the whole bodie of the Booke , and the verie strict order it selfe , which ( albeit the whole be deuided into Dialogicall Discourses ) we haue precisely obserued throughout the whole worke . After all this , we haue put downe the maine discourse in a Dialogicall forme , and purposely produced sixe such seuerall speakers therein , as should by their seuerall significant names , supply whatsoeuer might tend to the timely effecting of an absolute tractate concerning such matters . For first , Philologus signifieth a Louer of talke : and representeth such persons as trudge to and fro ; tatling these newes without any regard or due search into the soundnes thereof . Then next Pneumatomachus , signifieth a fighter or contender against the essentiall being of Spirits : and representeth those Swinish Saduces of old , and those godles Atheistes now in our daies , who hold there are neither Spirits nor Diuels . Then thirdly , Lycanthropus , signifieth a man essentially transformed to a wolfe : and representeth such persons as do hold ( with tooth and naile ) the transformation of diuels . Then fourthly , Exorcistes signifieth a coniurour or caster foorth of spirits and diuels : and representeth those persons that doe hold ( in these daies of the Gospel ) a real , or actual possession of diuels at the least . Then fiftly , Physiologus signifieth a discourser of natures secretes , or a naturall philosopher : and representeth such persons as ( by the onely light of reason ) are able to discouer the grose and palpable absurdities , ensuing such phantastical & absurd opiniōs . Then lastly , Orthodoxus signifieth one of an approoued or vpright iudgement : and representeth all such illumined diuines and others , as are able by the sway of reason , the authority of writers , and plaine euidence of scripture to censure the obiections , and very soundly to set downe the infallible truth . Al these are introduced as actours in these our discourses : the which also we haue purposely deuided into eleuen seuerall dialogues . And this , partly , for an ease to thy memory by auoiding that intricate , that endlesse and tedious toile , which otherwise would haue wearied thy spirits : if ( without intermission ) thou haddest been intirely tied to the whole treatise it selfe . And partly also , to point foorth vnto thee the principall matters which are principally handled throughout the whole work . Lastly , we haue in the end of the booke , summarily also annexed a table of all the principall points , the speciall matters , the seuerall syllogismes , and the sundry expositions of such places of scripture , as are any way pertinent to the maine purpose it selfe : that , by the onely direction thereof , thou maist find forth ( with a trice ) whatsoeuer thou wishest to see concerning such rare and vnwonted occurrents . And now ( gentle Reader ) least happily the curious sort should cry out and say , Quid de pusillis tam●magna prooemia ? What needs so great a cry for so little wool ? we will therefore no longer withhold thee from the treatise it selfe . Beseeching the God of peace , to giue thee peace alwaies , by all meanes . Grace be with all them that loue the Lord Iesus to their immortality . Euen so : come Lord Iesu. So be it : Amen . Thine euer in the Lord , I. D. I. W. The names of the seuerall Authors . A AVlerius Augustinus . Ambrosius . Athanasius . Aries Montanus . Author de eccles . dogm . Andreas Hierosolomit . Alexander Aphrodisaeus . Augustin . Marloratus . Amandus Polanus . Albertus Magnus . Andreas willet . Auicenna . Aetius . Aristides . Aristoteles . Adamus Hill. Aristophanes . B BAsilius Magnus . Beda presbyter , Bernardus . Benedictus Pererius . Benedictus Aretius . Bee-hyue . Bristow . Ben-Sirah . C CYprianus . Cyrillus . Caietanus . Coelius Rhodiginus . Cardanus . Cassianus . Carolus Magnus . Concilium Acquirense . Concilium Ancyranum . Concilium Bracharense . Concilium Lateran . Cicero . D DRusius . Damascenus . Dionysius . Destructorium vitiorum . Decretalia . Didimus Alexandrinus . E EPiphanius . Eusebius . Eucherius . Erasmus Rhoterodam . Erasmus Sarcerius . Emanuel Tremelius . Edwardus Dearing . Eugubinus . F FRacastorius . Franciscus Georgius . Fulgentius . Franciscus Titelman . G GRegorius . Gregorius Magnus . Gregorius Naziansen . Gregorius 1. Rom. Gilbertus Longolus . Glossa ordinaria . Gryllandus . Gemnasius . Gratianus . Georgius Ioyns . Georgius Alley . Georgius Gifford . H HVgo Etherianus . Hilarius . Hieronimus . Hieronimus Zanchius . Henricus Bullinger . Hyppocrates . Horatius . Hermes Trismegistus . Hugo Cardinalis . Harmonia confessionum . Henricus Iaakob . Hortus sanitatis . I IOsephus . Isidorus . Iacobus Pamelius . Iohannes Brentius . Iohannes Drusius . Iohannes Chrysostomus . Iohannes Caluinus . Iohannes Piscator . Iohannes Auenarius . Iohannes Ferus . Iohannes Wierus . Iohannes Wulcurio . Iohannes Bromyard . Iohannes King. Iohannes Bodin . Iustinus Martyr . Iulius Scaliger . Iohannes Darel . Iohannes Gorraeus . L LAmbertus Danaeus . Leonardus Culmanus . Leonardus Fuchsius . Laurentius Codmanus . Lauaterus . Leuinius L●mnius . Ludulphus . Lucas Lossius . Legenda aurea . Lucianus . M MArtinus Bucerus . M. in historijs . Methodius . Michael Psellus . Marcilius Ficinius . Malmesburius . Malleus mallificarum . Marcus Vigerius . Moses Barsephus . Moses Pellacherus . N NIcephoras . Nicholaus Lyra. Nicholaus Hemingius . Nichol. Selneccerus . Narration of Darel . O OTho Casmannus . Origines . P PAulus Frisius . Patricius . Paulus Aegenitus . Paulus Burgensis . Petrus Martyrus . Petrus Lambertus . Petrus Thyreus . Philosophus . Pellicanus . Philippus Barough . Plinius . Plutarchus . Pompanatius . Prosper . Proclus . Pythagoras . R R. D. Kimhi . Rodulphus Gualterus . Robertus Rollocus . Reginaldus Skotus . Rhemish Testament . Robertus Pontus . Ruffinus . S SEbastianus Martyr . Stenchus Eugubinus . Strabus . Sanhedrin editio Basiliens . T TErtullianus . Thomas Aquinas . Theophylactus . Theodoretus . Theodorus Beza . Theupolus . Timotheus Brichtus . Tatianus . Thomas Cooperus . W WOlfgangus Muscul. Wilel . Minatensis . Wilelmus Fulke . Wilelmus Perkins . X Xantis Pagninus . Z Zozomenus . FINIS . The seuerall arguments of the seuerall Dilogues following in order . The first Dialogue . pag. 1. The Argument . 1 THat there are essentiall Spirits and Diuels , as appeereth plainelie , from their essentiall creations , and effectuall operations . Their spirituall and substantiall being . The second Dialogue . pag. 31. The Argument . 2 THe power of Spirits and Diuels . Their possession , what it is with the seuerall parts thereof . And whether the Diuell doth essentially enter into the possessed mans minde or not ? The third Dialogue . pag. 64. The Argument . 3 WHether Spirits and Diuels doe essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie , or not ? And , whether for that purpose , they haue peculiar to themselues , their true naturall bodies . The fourth Dialogue . pag. 99. The Argument . 4 WHether Spirits and Diuels can assume to themselues true naturall bodies ? What bodies they are said to assume ? And , how those Scriptures are to be vnderstood , which be for this purpose produced ? The fifth Dialogue . pag. 165. The Argument . 5 WHether Spirits and Diuels can essentiallie transforme themselues into any true naturall bodie ? And how those Scriptures are to be vnderstood , which many produce for that purpose ? The sixt Dialogue . pag. 131. The Argument . 6 OF actuall possession , what it is ? And whether Spirits and Diuels ( in these daies of the Gospell ) do now actually possesse either the minde or the bodie : by any extraordinarie afflicting or vexing ? The seuenth Dialogue . pag. 199. The Argument . 7 COmmon experience what it is ? Whether the actuall possession of Spirits and Diuels , especially that supposed in the yoong man at Mahgnitton may be prooued thereby ? And of the Diuell his power of obsession . The eight Dialogue . pag. 232. The Argument . 8 OF the vndoubted true force , for the timely subduing of this the forenamed power of the Diuell . Whether any created meanes may therein preuaile ? And , whether praier and fasting haue any power in themselues to effect such a worke ? The ninth Dialogue . pag. 263. The Argument . 9 WHether praier and fasting be established by Christ , as a perpetuall ordinarie meanes for the powerfull expelling of Spirits and Diuels ? Whether the power therein be a vocall or a personall power ? Or , whether a true iustifying faith ( apprehending some supernaturall power of God ) doth effect that worke ? The tenth Dialogue . pag. 304. The Argument . 10 WHether a miraculous faith ( apprehending the power of God for the powerfull expelling of Diuels ) be yet still continued ? what a true miracle is ? And whether the working of miracles be now fullie determined in the true Churches of Christ ? The eleuenth Dialogue . pag. 339. The Argument . 11 A summarie recapitulation of all the premisses , verie concludentlie repeating and proouing the precedent purpose : with a patheticall perswasion to subscribe to the vndoubted truth thereof . A briefe Analysis , or summarie resolution of this present treatise : the same affoording vnto vs Certaine Dialogicall discourses : declaring especially 1. that there be spirits & diuels : this prooued from 1. Their essentiall creation . 2. Their effectuall operation . 2. What we haue to consider in them : namely , 1. Their power the same being a power either 1. Of possession , and this also is , either 1. Reall , the same being , either Mentall . 1. essentially in the mind Corporal , 1 essentiallie in the body , by their assuming of true naturall bodies . their trāsforming of true bodies . 2. Actuall , this also either by a mentall , afflicting and grieuing . a corporall , tormenting & vexing . 2. Of obsession which stands either in an outward assaulting and circūuenting . inward suggesting and tempting . 2. The subduing of that power by a power 1. Immediate , and this in Christ. 2. Mediate by others , this , either Apostolicall , hauing from Christ a power ouer diuels . Ecclesiastical it being in the church either Primitiue , wherin the continuāce of that power . Successiue , wherin the compasse of that power , DIALOGICALL discourses , of SPIRITS and DIVELS . The first Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . That there are essentiall Spirits and Diuels , as appeareth plainely by their creation , and operation ▪ Their spirituall and substantiall being . The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOMACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Philologus . WHat Lycanthropus ? and you maister Pneumatomachus , my olde companions ? well mette at this present . From whence come you ? & whether walke you so fast , if a man may be bolde to enquire the same at your hands : without offending your persons , or hindering your busines . Lycanthropus . We come euen now from that famous citie Mahgnitton , my good friend Philologus : and are presently trauelling towards the Iland of Eirtwab with speede , vpon verie speciall and vrgent busines : concerning the glorie of God and the good of his Church . Philologus . What newes from Mahgnitton I pray you ? Lycanthropus . Newes sir ? the strangest newes I assure you that hath been heard of this hundred yeeres . Philologus . What newes is that ? Lycanthropus . Of a yoong man there . Who being reallie possest with a Diuell : was very strangely , or rather miraculously deliuered by prayer and fasting . Philologus . How strange newes soeuer the same seemeth to vs , verie certaine it is , as appeeres in the Gospel : that Diuels haue been driuen foorth by prayer and fasting . Howbeit , that the Diuel should now in these daies of the Gospell , haue a reall possession in any : is greatly doubted of the most , and very flatly denied of some . Lycanthropus . The real possession of Diuels may iustly be called in question , if Pneumatomachus his opinion be canonized for currant : who very confidently auoucheth , that there are neither Spirits nor Diuels at all . Which being so : howe should there be a reall possession of Diuels in any ? Philologus . Verie true : for Diuels must first be , before they can haue a reall possession in men . But , Pneumatomachus he holds ( I am sure ) no such opinion : vnlesse it be for argument sake . Pneumatomachus . Yes , I am verie confident therein I assure you . And about that point , my neighbour Lycanthropus and my selfe : haue held a hot dispute all the way we haue come . But , being neither of vs satisfied with the others reply , we iointly concluded to refer the whole decision of these controuersies , to maister Orthodoxus his determination : promising each other , to rest satisfied herein , vpon his resolute iudgement , and thereupon , we are now trauelling towards the Iland of Eirtwab , for that selfe-same purpose . Philologus . Such conferences I assure you are both-commendable and comfortable , especially in trauell : for they do sharpen the witte , delight the minde , and make the iourney seeme short and sweete . And herein withal , you are woorthie great praise , both because you doe passe foorth the time in profitable talke as you trauell : and for that also ( being loth to loose the fruite of your conference , you doe so friendly and so freely , referre your selues to the iudgement of such as are able , and willing to determine your doubts . Howbeit , our meeting is wrought ( I perceiue ) by the speciall prouidence of God. For this I dare tell you for truth , that maister Orthodoxus , he is not euen now in the Iland of Eirtwab , but newly remooued into the confines of Eibrad : entending this winter to soiourne there , with one maister Physiologus his faithfull friend , of very purpose to conferre with the Exorcist himselfe that cast foorth the spirite , for the benefite of which conference , I also am now trauelling thether my selfe . And therefore if it please you , I shal not onely be glad of your companies : but will verie carefully conduct you the way . Pneumatomachus . With all my hart , if Lycanthopus consent to the same . Lycanthropus . Else should I dissent from the singular prouidence of God. Philologus . Well then , let vs legge it a little . And , doe tell me as we trauell ( I pray you ) the strange maner of the yoongman his handling , in that fearefull possession . Pneumatomachus . Ah Philologus , your eares ( I perceiue ) they are itching after some tidings-bringer of new found Diuels . Howbeit because my neighbour Licanthropus hath beene , and is now ouer credulous concerning such Legerdemaines , I doe leaue the relation wholy to him : who shall ( for publishing these vnwonted wonderments ) haue the whole glorie , or shame , to himselfe alone . Licanthropus . As I hunt after no glorie : so , I hope I shall reape no reproche at all for reporting these newes . The rather , because my maine purpose in publishing them , is , and shal be for none other respect in the world : but , to lay open the Diuels inueterate malice , mans miserable condition by nature , the extraordinarie faith of the Exorcist , and the singular mercie and power of God. Philologus . All these ( I assure you ) are holy respects . But , relate the maner of his passions I pray you in order . Lycanthropus . Withall my hart . And ( to my remembrance ) they were eftsoones vpon him in this following order . 1 There seemed to runne along his legge , and thence into his toe , belly , throat , toong , cheeke , eie , and other parts , a lumpe sometimes bigger , or lesser then an egge , being soft . 2 The lumpe being in his legge , it was heauie , and inflexible like yron . 3 He had such extraordinarie strength , that sometimes three , fower , fiue , sixe or moe , were scarse able to rule him . 4 When fower or fiue struggled with him , so as they were wearied , he did not sweate , pant , or change colour . 5 He wallowed , gnashed with his teeth , stared with his eies , and foamed at his mouth excessiuely : hauing neither eat nor drunke all the day before . 6 There seemed to runne vnder the couerlet where he lay , as it were kitlings : to the number of fower or fiue . 7 His face and his mouth were fearfully distorted : one lip towards one eare , and the other lippe towards the other eare . 8 His face was turned directly backward , not moouing his bodie at all . 9 His necke doubled vnder him . 10 His bodie doubled , his head betweene his legges , suddenly plucked round , like a round browne loafe : he was cast vp like a ball from the bed , three or fower times togither halfe a yard high . 11 Being cast into the fire , where he lay sometimes against the wals and yron barres in the chimney with great violence : he receiued no appearance of hurt at all . 12 His bodie seemed to be extended to the height of the tallest man : when once he endeuoured to hang himselfe . 13 He told of diuers things done in his absence , without notice giuen by any person . 14 There were strange speeches vttered by him in his fits , in a strange voice : as , that he was his , that he was God , Christ , and a king , that he made baptisme . I will vse William Summers his toong and members for three daies , Ego sum rex , ego sum Deus . That there was no God , that he was king and prince of darkenes . And , in saying the Lords Prayer , he could not say , Lead vs not into temptation , but , Lead vs into temptation . Also , before Maister Darel had seene him , he said Darel comes , Darel comes , he will haue me out , but , I will come againe : for , Nottingham and Burton , are iolly townes for me . 15 Being recouered out of his fits , he knew not what he had said or done . 16 In his fits , strange smels were in the place where he lay : sometimes like brimstone , sometimes verie sweete . 17 There was a strange knocking perceiued about his bed in his fits : both his hands and feete being held vnmooueable . 18 He did cry hideously , sometimes like a bul , beare , swine : and in a small voice impossible to be counterfeited . 19 His legs would be crooked with his fals , and remaine vnflexible . 20 He spake in a continued speech , his mouth being wide open , his toong drawen into his throat : neither his lips nor chaps moouing . 21 He spake a quarter of an hower , his mouth being shut close . 22 In his fits , his pulses and temples did not beat : he lay for dead , and as cold as yce . 23 His eie was blacke , and changed colour in his fits . These , and sundrie other passions , at sundrie times appeared in him , which I remember not nowe : but these which I haue tolde you , are certeinly reported by sundrie persons of good accompt and credite , being eie witnesses thereof themselues . Pneumatomachus . The persons reporting these newes may be of good accompt and credite I grant : but Lycanthropus ? how can your selfe so confidently report any thing from them for certeine truth : sith themselues ( as your speeches import ) do onely but speake of things as it seemed to be ? Lycanthropus . Howsoeuer they seemed to them : the newes ( I assure you ) was strange vnto me . Philologus . Trust me , these are strange and woonderfull newes indeed . Lycanthropus . Not so strange ( I assure thee ) as true . Philologus . God grant they may worke in euerie of vs , an holy reuerence and feare of his maiestie . But , come on ( I pray you ) and cheare vp your selues : for , we are now ( in a manner ) at our iourneies end . Pneumatomachus . I do hartily reioyce to heare of that newes : being euen toiled , and tyred out with the newfangled newes of my neighbour Lycanthropus . But what three persons are those , that come yonder walking this way ? Philologus . If I be not fowlie deceiued it is maister Orthodoxus , maister Physiologus , and the Exorcist also himselfe , who cast out the Diuell : they are euen the same . This falleth foorth pat for our purpose : we haue now verie fitte oportunitie to conferre of these points to the full . Lycanthropus . Blessed be God for this speciall prouidence and fauour . Orthodoxus . God blesse you good brethren , & prosper your iourney . Philologus . God blesse you also good maister Orthodoxus : and the rest of your companie . What , my old friend Philologus ? what make you in these quarters ? and whether wander you so fast with these good companions ? Philologus . Good sir ? we are euen now ( I hope ) at the furthest . For our comming into these quarters , is ( vpon speciall occasion ) to conferre with your selfe and the rest of this companie , about the maruelous woonders befallen at Mahgnitton of late : concerning a yoong man possessed there . Orthodoxus . See , see the strange nature of man ? we were cōferring euen now , about the transforming of Diuels : Howbeit , all the world ( I feare me ) will shortly become transformed Athenians . For euery man now , doth giue himselfe wholie to the hearing or telling of newes . Notwithstanding you are all hartely welcome : and this I tell you heere by the way , that , we also our selues , are nowe in debating those matters . Lycanthropus . Good sir ? then pardon vs we pray you , for interrupting your talke : and we will walke heere apart by our selues , attending your leisure . Physiologus . Nay not so : for , neither is the matter it selfe so secret , nor we so earnest vpon it , but that ( if it so please maister Orthodoxus , and this other companion ) you may all be iointly pertakers of our mutuall conference : and so much the rather , because you are come ( as it seemes ) for that selfesame purpose . Exorcistes . I am very well willing , if maister Orthodoxus thinks good . Orthodoxus . With all my hart . And seeing it hath pleased our good God to bring vs so fitly togither , let vs ( for more ease to our selues ) shroude vs heere vnder the shade along this banke : where we may haue the benefit of the running streame to recreate our eies and sences , and ( in so solitarie a place ) verie fitly conferre of our matters , without the discouerie of neighbours , or any the interruption of trauellers . Physiologus . Well sir , first place your selfe where you please ; and you shall see vs quickly come clustring about you . Orthodoxus . Come then let vs sit closely together . Howbeit , before we begin our conferrence ( to the ende the same may be euerie way comformable to the will of God , and comfortable also vnto our selues ) Let vs all ioine together in hartie prayers , and say . O Lord our God , the fountaine of life , the welspring of grace , and the onely infuser of all spirituall knowledge : Behold vs here at this present ( we humbly beseech thee ) in that acceptable beautie of thy sonne our Sauiour wherein thou so highly delightest , and for whose sake , thou canst not but be well pleased with euerie of vs. Graunt deare father , that , as thou hast ordeined him to be the true light which lightneth euerie one that comes into the world : so , he may gratiously enlighten our harts , who do naturally sit here in darkenes , and in the shadow of death . Remooue from our grosse and sencelesse soules , al those palpable cloudes of ignorance , errour and vnbeleefe , which seeke to foreclose our sauing knowledge in Iesus Christ. Pluck ( we pray thee ) from our vncircumcized eies , those thicke and foggie seales of naturall corruption , which doe ( at this present ) so fearfully dimme , and dazel our darke vnderstandings , as , we are vtterly vnable to discerne aright , the hole some things of thy holy law . And grant we beseech thee yet further , that , this our entended conferrence concerning the timely discouerie of these hidden mysteries of Satan , sinne , and iniquitie : may directly tende to the glorie of thy great name , the good of thy Church , the vnfolding of errour , the manifestation of truth , the confusion of Satan , the tryumph of our conquering Christ , and the euerlasting saluation of all our soules : through Iesus Christ our only Lord and Sauiour . Altogether . So be it Lord Iesu : euen so , Amen . Orthodoxus . Well : now ( in Gods name ) declare briefly and plainly what you desire to know concerning the possessed man at Mahgnitton ? Philologus . First sir ( or euer you enter vpon the perticular discourse of the possessed himselfe ) our desire is , to heare whether there be any spirits or Diuels to possesse men at all : the rather , because there is one in our companie , who , verie confidently auoucheth , that , there are neither Angels nor Spirits . Physiologus . Who is he ? and what is his name ? Pneumatomachus . I am the man if it please you : and my name is Pneumatomachus . Physiologus . Your name was geuen I suppose : to expresse your nature . For , Pneumatomachus , is as much to say , as a despiter of spirits : or rather , it signifieth one , who flatly opposeth himselfe to the essentiall spirits and powers of God. Howbeit ( by that time Maister Orthodoxus hath fully confuted your fowle and palpable errours ) I doubt not , but , you will , both be ashamed of your grosse vnderstanding , and desirous to exchange your odious name . Pneumatomachus . By your patience ( good sir ) it argueth in you a contentious nature , to stand deskanting thus vpon names : which are but bare notions of things , when you haue saide what you can . Physiologus . And , good sir ( by your License ) if so be your inward nature be the thing it selfe whereof your outward name doth giue vs the notion : then ( out of doubt ) your verie name ( how bare a notion soeuer ) must needes argue in you an erronious minde . Pneumatomachus . Erre I confesse I may , but dwell in an errour I will not : If once I be brought to perceiue it . Orthodoxus . Gods name be blessed for this so good a beginning . Goe to then , seeing you make it a Question whether there be spirits and Diuels or no , it shall not be amisse , first to demonstrate plainely vnto you , that there be Spirits and Diuels : and then next , to declare , what we haue more especially to consider of them . This I take it , will be a very plaine course , and such also , as comprehendeth fully the limits and bounds of our conferrence . Physiologus . No doubt , it comprehendeth fully , whatsoeuer may fall foorth concerning our present purpose . Exorcistes . The order is such as no man dislikes . Philologus . I thinke euen the same . What say you P●eumatomachus . Pneumatomachus . I dislike not the order . But sir ? howe prooue you there be Spirits and Diuels ? Orthodoxus . I prooue it first from their essential creation : and then next , from their effectuall operation . Pneumatomatichus . How first from their essentiall creation ? Orthodoxus . Because they were essentially created of God. For the Lord God ( creating the whole host of heauen ) created Angels and Spirits among the rest of celestiall creatures , to be of principall account in that heauenly hoste . Now then , Angels and Spirits , they being such excellent creatures of God : we neede not to doubt of their essentiall being . The rather , because euery creature else ( how contemptible soeuer ) being once created , it hath an essentiall substance : and if the basest of all , then much more the Angels , they being ( indeed ) such excellent creatures . Pneumatomachus . Well , goe to , how next from their effectuall operations . Orthodoxus . Thus , their operations haue beene , and now are apparantly euident to all the world ; whether we respect the Lord , or his church . So that for any to doubt of their essentiall being , is to call in question the sun-shine at mid-day : and as wel may he denie their operations whatsoeuer . Pneumatomachus . Good sir , is this your substantiall proouing of Angels and Spirits : I denie that the Lord God euer created any Angels at all : and then to what purpose doe you vrge their supposed operations ? Orthodoxus . Sith you so confidently denie both Spirits and Diuels , tell me what you imagine those to be , which we generally hold for Spirits and Angels . Pneumatomachus . Sir , I take those your supposed spirits for none other matters at all , but the good or euill motions and affections arising in men : as also , those your imagined Angels , I hold them to bee nothing else but the sensible signes or tokens of Gods vnspeakeable power . Orthodoxus . You do then conclude ( it should seeme ) that our faith ( concerning those matters ) is grounded altogither vpon bare supposals , and idle imaginations of wandring braines . I like well your plainnes in laying open your minde : although I alowe not your pestiferous opinions , iumping so pat , with the Parepateticall and Sadusaicall sort . Who ( flatly denying either Angel or Spirite ) do confidently auouch that there is nothing immortall in man , which is a verie dangerous gulph of hell that deuoureth and swaloweth vp all sound diuinitie and sincere knowledge of God. For first , by opposing your selfe against all the essentiall spirits and powers of the Lord , what doe you else in effect , but implicatiuely reiect the essentiall being of the holy Ghost ? and then next , you do also ( by consequence ) verie flatly deny that there is any God at all : for what ( I pray you ) is God , but a Spirite ? Pneumatomachus . Nay sir ( howsoeuer I oppose my selfe to the catholike opinion of Spirits and Diuels ) I do confidently auouch and confesse that there is one true euerliuing God , of an incomprehensible , inuisible and spirituall essence : distinguished into the Father , the Sonne , and the holy Ghost . And moreouer ( concerning men and my selfe ) I do with like confidence , verie cleerely acknowledge , that euerie of vs also are essentiallie endued with spirituall and immortall soules . Orthodoxus . You cannot faithfully & finally hold these infallible truthes from your hart : but you must and will presently banish those other palpable errours from out of your brest . For , euen as Aaron his rodde deuoured foorthwith the counterfeite rods of all the Egyptian Sorcerers : so surely , these your confessed truths ( concerning the essentiall spirits and powers of the Lord ) being faithfully held from the hart will in the end ( I doubt not ) be another Aaronicall rodde , to confute and confound those other Sadusaical sorceries wherewith the Diuel hath so dangerously bewitched your soule . Lycanthropus . Verie true , if he be not to opinionate therein . Pneumatomachus . Sir , howsoeuer I haue beene hitherto opinionate in this speciall point , I am notwithstanding very loth that reason should be ouerruled by will , or that the holy truth of God should giue place vnto errour : and therefore proceed ( I beseech you ) in the timely vnfolding of this hidden mysterie . Orthodoxus . With very good will : wherein also ( for your speedier conceiuing of that which is spoken ) we will first lay open the originall fountaine from whence this errour floteth abroad : and then next ( hauing fully answered your arguments ) we wil directly prooue vnto you , both Spirits and Diuels . Exorcistes . A very excellent order . For there by first you shall cleere our iudgements : and then next you shall the more fully confirme vs in the infallible truth . Lycanthropus . That is certainly so . But what thinkes Pneumatomachos ? Pneumatomachus . I acknowledge no lesse : and do promise withall , to giue an attentiue eare to whatsoeuer is spoken . Orthodoxus . Well then , to proceede therein accordingly , this I dare boldly affirme , that your Parepatetical opinion , or rather , that this your Sadusaicall sorcerie concerning the non being of Spirits and Diuels : proceedeth directly from a two-folde false ground . Namely , first , from the naturall corruption of your proper minde : and secondly , from a carelesse misconstruing of some certeine places of Scripture . Both which saide false grounds , albeit I could and might well relate them my selfe : yet ( because the first is rather Philosophical then Diuine ) I do purposely put ouer the prosecuting thereof ( as of al other like points ) to this my good brother , if it please him to trauell therin : reseruing the latter to entreate of my selfe . Physiologus . Sith it is your good pleasure to haue it so , I will gladly giue my endeuour to satisfie the man , so it seemeth him good . Pneumatomachus . With all my hart : if first you will tell me who you are , and what is your name . Physiologus . I am ( I assure you ) a friend to the truth : and my name is Physiologos . Pne●matomachus . In very good time be it spoken . But may I be bold ( by the way ) to aske you a question without offence ? Physiologus . Propound at your pleasure : and aske what you please . Pneumatomachus . Was not your name also purposely giuen , to purport vnto vs your proper nature ? For , Physiologus ( you say ) is your name : which ( vnlesse I be fowly deceaued ) is as much to say ; as a babler or pratler of naturall Philosophie : or , it signifieth rather some notable discourser of naturall causes . I hope you are none of those cogging companions of whom the Apostle doth wish vs beware : who goe purposely about to spoile men with Philosophie and vaine deceit ? Orthodoxus . Nothing lesse . For the man ( I assure you ) is both a sound Philosopher : and a sincere Diuine : Neither would I haue you once to imagine , that Paul doth there purposely oppose himselfe to all true Philosophie , whether naturall , or morall , no : but reprooueth rather , that false and counterfeit Philosophie , which ( hauing onely an appearance of truth , and not the substance of truth it selfe ) is cunningly foisted in by cogging companions , to spoile and deceiue mens mindes of the truth indeed . For otherwaies , all true Philosophie is the speciall gift of God , and a principall helpe to Diuinitie : so far foorth especially , as she is made a submissiue Moderatour in naturall causes , and not a commaunding Mistres ouer Diuinitie . Then I assure you , shee comes in her naturall kinde : and thrice happie is he that hath a true insight into her , according to that old accustomed saying : Foelix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas . The wight that could all causes skan : Might count himselfe an happie man. Now then , such a Philosopher is this , and therefore , be bold vpon my warrant ) to harken freely vnto him , concerning the first ground of your errour . Pneumatomachus . I credit your words : let him therefore proceede in his purpose . Physiologus . The first ground of this ( as of all errours else whatsoeuer ) doth vndoubtedly arise ( as you heard ) from the naturall corruption of your proper minde . And , this may more plainely appeare , if I first shew you what the Minde is : and then , tell you how the same is corrupted . The Minde , is that reasonable facultie or power of the soule ; whereby the naturall man perceiueth , knoweth , and discerneth all intelligible things . By which wordes it is plaine , that , the proper ende and office of the Minde , is especially to perceiue , to know , and discerne things . And , this office also it accomplisheth by the helpe of no bodily Organon , but onely by it selfe alone : vnlesse haply the senses doe sometime assist the intellectiue vertue therein . The Minde therefore it differeth ( you see ) from the Will. For , the Minde , onely perceiueth and knoweth a thing : the Will , it maketh free choice , either to pursue , or eschew the thing that is knowen . Now then , the Minde ( in a meere naturall man ) is easily corrupted by reason of the phantasie , through whose onlie helpe , the aforesaide knowledge of things intelligible is conueyed and offered vnto it . For , the phantasie , it being that interiour sensitiue knowledge which ( by the middle ventricle of the braine ) receiueth into it selfe a verie deepe impression of the sundrie kinds of sensible things either present , or absent , and labouring also to draw foorth from those seuerall kinds of sensible things , the like sensible kindes in conceit : it cannot otherwise possibly be , but that the said phantasie ( not being able to transcend beyond the se●sitiue knowledge of naturall and corporall substances ) must needes offer the minde such sensible notions as her speciall o●iect affoords . And , hereby also it commeth to passe , that , the minde eftsoones is deceiued in perceiuing , knowing , and discerning aright of euerie intelligible thing : more especially , if the said phantasie at any time endeuoureth to draw foorth from some sensible things , an imaginarie conceit of some intelligi●le matter . For then , the vnderstanding or minde ( being mightily misled by the phantasie ) must needs be deceiued in perceiuing and discerning such a matter ; it being supernaturall , spirituall , and heauenly : and surmounting the compasse of humane reason . As for example . The minde of a meere naturall man , being at any time desirous to perceiue and discerne aright of God , of Angels , or Diuels : it looketh foorthwith to receiue from the phantasie or interiour sensitiue knowledge , some certaine notions concerning these matters . Which said phantasie , receiuing an impression , onely of sensible things from the exteriour senses themselues , and hauing in her naturally , no impression at all of any the aforesaide supernaturall , spirituall , and heauenly matters : therein , shee affoordeth the minde , either , no notions at all , or none other ( at least ) then onely such , as she reeeiueth herselfe from corporall , sensible , and meere naturall obiects . Whereupon , the minde ( being still desirous to perceiue and discerne the aforesaid supernaturall matters , and hauing thereof ( I say ) no notions at all , or , deceiueable notions at least ) shee foorthwith concludes , either , that there are neither God , nor Angell , nor Diuell : or , none other at least , then such as shee hath notions of in an imaginarie conceite , arising onely vpon a sensible knowledge from corporall , sensible , and naturall obiects . That is , the said phantasie , receiuing some sensible knowledge from the sense of the eare , that God is an almightie and magnificent Lord of hostes , it imagineth foorthwith , some sensible or corporal potentate ; and thereupon , receiuing an impression of some such sensible thing in conceit : the minde by and by ( from such sensible notions ) concludeth , that God is some almightie , supereminent , and sensible potentate in deed : hauing all princes and powers subiected vnto him . Againe , the said phantasie , hauing receiued by the eare as before , a like sensitiue knowledge , that the Seraphims ( shadowing the throne of grace ) haue sixe wings apiece , to flie , and to couer themselues withall , it foorthwith supposeth some sensible creature : and thereupon ( receiuing as before , a sensible impression of some such sensible thing in conceit ) the minde eftsoones resolueth , that Angels ( if there be any ) are none other but firie and winged creatures . To be short , the phantasie hauing receiued by the eare , as before , that the Diuel is a terrible tormenting Termagant , chayned vp vnder darkenes , and taking an impression of some such sensible thing in conceit : the minde straight way supposeth , that , infernall spirits ( if there be any at all ) are vndoubtedly some blacke , grim , griesly ghostes , hauing goggled eies , fearefull clawes , with two clouen feete : Thus then , you see how the mind in a meere naturall man ( receiuing but bare phantasticall notions of sensible things in conceit ) is too too corrupted in iudgement : and therfore , hath naturally , no power in it selfe , to perceiue , to know and discerne aright of any supernaturall , spirituall , or heauenly matters . Pneumatomachus . From hence you would seeme to inferre , that , the meere naturall man is vtterly vnable ( by naturall reason ) to conceiue foundly and rightly of spirituall causes . Orthodoxus . Verie true . For , as that wisedome which is from belowe , is but earthly , sensuall , and diuellish : so surely , the naturall man , he cannot possibly perceiue the things of the spirit of God , for , they are but foolishnes to him . Neither can he know them at all : for , they are spiritually discerned . And , this spirituall discerning of things , is no naturall , but a supernaturall worke of faith which doth not arise from sensible notions : but , from a supernaturall knowledge infused spiritually into the enlightened soule , and which also ( being grounded on things that are hoped for ) is an vndoubted true euidence of things vnseene . Otherwaies , faith could be no faith at all : as one very fitly affirmeth saying . The diuine operation ( if it may possibly be comprehended by reason ) is nothing admirable : neither can that faith find any merite , whereunto humane reason affoords an experiment . Philologus . How now Pneumatomachus , what say you to these matters ? Pneumatomachus . By that which is spoken I doe plainely perceiue the verie first ground of all grosse and palpable errours : namely , the grosse conceiuing of spirituall matters according to that natural knowledge which naturally ariseth from meere sensible and naturall notions . Exorcistes . You haue conceiued aright : but how is your hart affected therewith . Pneumatomachus . It is affected ( I hope ) as it ought to be . For surely , this I must needs confesse to my shame , that , hetherto I haue adiudged nothing either possible in nature , or credible in action : which could not absolutely be comprehended by humane reason . And , this ( now I perceiue ) is that worldly wisedome which the word accompteth foolishnes with God. But , doe shewe me ( good Maister Orthodoxus ) the other ground also of these grosse opinions . Orthodoxus . With verie good will. The other ground of your errors ariseth ( I assure you ) from a carelesse misconstruing of some such places of scripture , as doe attribute to God , and to spirits a corporall forme : as eies , eares , hands , feete , bodies , wings and such like . Which said places ( your selfe vnderstanding them carnally ) do seeme to import vnto you at a blush ; that God and spirits haue visible formes and corporall substances . And thereupon , you doe rashlie conclude , that spirites and Diuels must necessarily be euen such as your selfe by those places suppose : or none at all . But now , because you your owne selfe ( with your corporall eies ) did yet neuer behold any such corporall Diuels as you by those Scriptures haue grossely imagined : therefore you doe flatly resolue with your selfe , that there are neither spirits nor Diuels at all . Pneumatomachus . Why ? what other thing else should those corporall formes , attributed to spirits & Diuels in the sacred scriptures import ; but , either that Diuels and spirits are visible substances , if those scriptures say true : or that there are ( at the least ) neither spirits nor Diuels at all , as I haue hitherto held . Orthodoxus . That the scriptures say true , being truely vnderstoode ; no true harted Christians may dare to denie . That there are also both spirits and Diuels ( though in truth and in substance they haue no such visible formes as those places of Scripture do literally import ) shall be prooued anone . In the meane time , this I must tell you for truth , that , those scriptures which attribute to God , and spirites , a corporall forme , as eies , eares , hands , feete , bodies , wings & such like ; may ( at no hand ) be expounded literally ; but must rather be metaphorically , and spiritually vnderstoode of vs. So that , ( by any those corporall formes ) we may not grossely conceiue in God , or in spirites , such corporall members , appertaining especially to their essentiall being : but , we must spiritually vnderstand ●hereby , those their supernatural vertues , operations and actions , which ( by such corporall formes ) are metaphorically commended to our humane capacities . And without doubt , such a carnall misconstruing of scriptures , was the onely maine cause which made the silly old monkes in elder times , to fall fearefully into the palpable errour of the Anthropomorphites : who ( by vnderstanding such scriptures literally ) did groslie attribute to God , such humane actions and passions as are proper to men . The holie scriptures then I perceiue , they may not be interpreted hand ouer head : neither are they in euery place to be opened literally . Orthodoxus . Nothing lesse , for , so should you fall into a thousand absurdities . And therefore , vnlesse you will purposely shew your selfe a swinish Saducee , or impudently make your selfe knowne a monkish Anthropomorphite : be now ashamed ( I beseech you ) of this palpable grossenes , and hold confidently with the catholike church , that there are essentiall spirites and Diuels . Philologus . Pneumatomachus ? howe goeth the matter ? Pneumatomachus . That which hath beene hetherto spoken , doth sufficiently set foorth a twofold ground of erronious opinions . Howbeit , this my opinion concerning the non being of Angels or spirits , appeares not ( for any thing heard as yet : ) to be erronious at all . And , I yet verely thinke ( as before ) that Diuels are none other thing else , but those good , or euill motions in men , which doe maruellously comfort , or afflict their minds . Orthodoxus . Thinke you so as you say ? Goe to then , tell me ( I pray you ) what was the Serpent that tempted our grandmother Euah in Paradice ? Was that any good , or euill motion in Euah ? If so , then tel me further , whether you thinke that motion was within , or without her : If within her , how came the temptation then from the Serpent , and from without her altogether ? But , if it came from without her , how should then the temptation be iustly accompted any motion of hers : sith the same cannot truely be said to arise from within her ? Againe , if you take Diuels to be but the good , or euill motions in men : what thinke you that tempter was , who tempted Christ in the wildernes ? Was it ( thinke you ) any motion in Christ ? If yea : then , whether was it an euill , or a good motion ? An euill motion you may not auouch it to be : because , Christ being free from all sinne , could not possibly haue in him any euill motion at all . As also , it were verie absurd to affirme it a good motion : for , how could that motion be good , which tempted Christ vnto euill ? Moreouer , if you take Diuels for the good , or euill motions in men , what thinke you then that Legion was , wherewith the two men were possessed ? Could the motions of men craue leaue , and enter into a whole heardship of Swine ? And , what became of those motions , when they were cast foorth by our Sauiour Christ ? Were they drowned together , with the Swine in the Sea ? If so , what then became of the men themselues from whom ( as you dreame ) those motions arose ? Were they dead all the while their mindes were bereft of their motions ? For , the minde ( you know ) is in perpetuall motion . Or , if those men ( all the while , and euer after their motions , were cast foorth and drownd in the Sea ) remained still in their liuely estate : it should seeme that Spirits and Diuels are some other essentiall powers , then the bare motions and affections arising in men . Briefly , if Diuels be nothing else , but the good , or euil motions in men ; what thinke you those tormentours to be , which vexe and torment men in Hell , with the Diuell and his Angels ? Yea , and doe tell me ( I pray you ) what goeth to Hell : the good , or euill motions ? If only the euill , what then must become of those other which were good in the man ? For , sith none in this life can possibly be either so good , or so euill , but that they haue in them both good , and euill motions , it cannot otherwaies be , but that , either the good , and euill motions in men , must ( after this life ) be monstrously confounded together ; or else , if the good motions goe roundly to Heauen , and the euill vnto hell : then , the bodie and soule must be diuided , part vnto heauen , and part vnto hell , like an indiuiduum vagum , or , some litle new nothing that hangs in the ayre . To be short , if man , with his good , and euill motions together , goeth foorthwith , either wholy to heauen , or wholy to hell : how then should his ioyes , or his torments be either absolute or endlesse ? Because , looke how fast his good motions doe minister comfort vnto him : so fast ( at the least ) his euill motions will afflict and torment him . Phylologus . Surely Pneumatomachus , this opinion ( I see ) is so absurd and so sottish : as , euen a sucking babe would blush to be taynted therewith . Lycanthropus . A sucking babe blush ? yea , it is such a stale ridiculous iest , as might make euen a mad man to hide his head in a corner . Pneumatomachus . Verie true : and I also my selfe , am now ashamed thereof . Notwithstanding , how soeuer it is certaine that spirits and Diuels be more then the good or euill motions in men ; it appeares yet ( for any thing heard ) that those your supposed Angels , are nothing at all but the sensible tokens , or signes of Gods power . Orthodoxus . What meane you by the sensible tokens , or signes of Gods power . Pneumatomachus . I vnderstand thereby , those extraordinarie iudgements of God which demonstrate vnto vs , the incomprehensible maiestie and might of his power . Such ( I meane ) as was the destruction of Sodome and Gomorrha : the extraordinarie speech of Baalams Asse : the wonderfull ouerthrow of the Assyrian host , and such other besides . Orthodoxus . Your error concerning this point vndoubtedly consisteth herein : namely , in confounding the cause of those iudgements with the effect it selfe . For , howsoeuer those the aforenamed iudgements may truely be said to be the sensible signes , and effects of the extraordinarie power of God : yet can you at no hand denie , but that the Lord also himselfe effected those extraordinarie iudgements , by some extraordinarie wonderful meanes , namely by the appointed ministerie and execution of his heauenly Angels . As for example , howsoeuer the extraordinarie ouerthrowe of Sodome and Gomorrha , was a sensible signe and effect of the extraordinarie power of God : verie certaine it is , that the two Angels sent foorth from the Lord for the execution of that power , they were also the instrumentall meanes that effected the same . Againe , howsoeuer the fall and of speech Balaam his asse , was some extraordinary effect & signe of Gods power : yet was it the Angell with his sword drawen in his hand , who extraordinarily accomplisht the same . Brieflie , howsoeuer that fearefull massacre , so miraculouslie made vpon the hundred eightie and fiue thousand of Saneheribs armie , was an extraordinarie and sensible signe of Gods woonderfull power : yet was it the Angel of the Lord , who extraordinarilie effected the same that selfesame night . By all which you see it verie apparant , that ( whatsoeuer your selfe surmize to the contrarie ) the scriptures they set foorth vnto vs essentiall Angels or spirits , as the extraordinarie executioners of those sensible signes or tokens of the extraordinarie power of God. Pneumatomachus . Surely good sir , I should soone be perswaded to that which you speake : were I not mightily withheld by an vnanswerable argument . Orthodoxus . What argument I praie you is that ? Pneumatomachus . This , namely , for that Moses in the historie of the creation ( entreating compendiouslie of all those workes of God which in sixe daies before the Saboth were perfectly finished ) maketh no mention at all of the creation of Angels , spirits , or Diuels . Whereupon it foloweth , that ( if any such be ) they must needes be vncreate , and eternall : or created ( at least ) before , or after the worldes creation . Orthodoxus . Thus you reason . There is in the historie of Moses no expresse mention of the creation of Angels : therefore , if any such be , they are either vncreate , or not created within the sixe daies . Pneumatomachus . So I reason indeed . Orthodoxus . Then I must tell you , your argument is faultie , and halteth downe right , neither hath it any such certeine consequence as you seeme to set downe : else , how say you to this that I make ? There is in the hystorie of Moses no expresse mention of the creation of Lyons or Beares : therefore , if any such be , they are either vncreate , or not created within the sixe daies . Pneumatomachus . That foloweth not . For , howsoeuer Lyons or Beares , be not expresly mentioned there : yet is their creation implicatiuely contained within that sixe daies worke , wherein God created the earth , and all the creatures therein . Orthodoxus , Verie true . And thus you your selfe at vnawares haue answered this your vnreasonable argument . For howsoeuer Angels and spirites are not expresly mentioned in Moses his historie : yet , is their creation implicatiuely comprehended in that second daies worke , wherein God created the heauenly firmament , with all the whole host aboue the same , among whom the Angels and spirits haue speciall preheminence . Pneumatomachus . You say some thing vnto it . Orthodoxus . Something say you ? such a something I assure you , as is able to batter your vnanswerable argument to nothing . Howbeit ( for further answere ) this I do confidently oppose to that which you falslie inferre , namely , that Angels and spirits are neither eternall nor vncreate : but such essentiall powers of God as had their first beginning and being , by the worke of creation . Neither were they formed or made before the first created matter of this visible world : neither yet after the accomplished workes of this visible world . Yea , and thus much I do further affirme , that they were not created before , but iointly togither with that celestiall firmament , which wee commonly call the heauen of the blessed . Pneumatomachus . How prooue you them creatures created by God ? Orthodoxus . This may plainly be prooued from most infallible and apparant places of Scripture : especially that in the Psalmes : where Dauid ( inuiting and sommoning all sorts of people to sing praises to God ) saith also of the Angels : praise ye him al yee his Angels , praise yee him all yee his power . And therewithall , he giueth this reason , saying : for , He spake the word and they were made , he commanded , and they were created . And hereunto also accordeth that which the Apostle speaketh saying : by him were all things created which are in heauen and in earth , things visible , and inuisible : whether they be thrones , or dominions , or principalities , or powers , all things were created by him , and for him , By all which it is cleere , that the very Angels are creatures : and created also by God. Exorcistes . Yea , but when , or in what day created he them ? Orthodoxus . This I confesse , is a more difficult question , then that it may well be answered by any expres words set down in the sacred scriptures : although yet , by the Scriptures themselues , by probable reasons , and by the authoritie also of auncient Fathers , some certeintie may be determined concerning this point . Pneumatomachus . How first by the Scriptures themselues ? Orthodoxus . The Scriptures declare , that they were vndoubtedly created all within the sixe daies : as to alleage one or two out of many . First Dauid he saith , By the word of the Lord were the heauens made : and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth . Againe , the Angel in the Reuelation , sweareth by the Lord , Who created the heauen , and the things that are therein , and the earth , and the things that are therein , and the sea , and the things that are therein . In both which places you see , howe the holie Ghost ( speaking of the creation of all things ) doth first set downe the continents themselues , namely the heauens , the earth , and the sea : and then next , the things contained in them . Shewing by this selfesame order , that the heauens , the earth , and the sea , were first created themselues : and then the creatures conteined in them . But the heauens , the earth , and the sea , were all of them created within the sixe daies : and therefore also the hoste of heauen , and all the creatures in the earth , and the sea , were euerie of them created within the sixe daies . For Moses saith flatly , that euen in those sixe daies , all the workes of the Lord were fully finished : and that God ceased the seauenth daie from all his labours . Thus then you see it plainly demonstrated by sundry places of Scripture : that the Angels also were all created within the workes of those sixe daies creation . Pneumatomachus . Well , and howe prooue you the same by probable reasons ? Orthodoxus . I proue it thus . 1. The Angels they are either created , or vncreated : but not vncreated : therefore created . They cannot possiblie be vncreated substances : for then , they should also be infinite . Howbeit , Angels they are finite creatures , for their actions are finite : yea , and then also their power , it is finite . But if they be of a finite power , then also of a circumscriptible essence . Moreouer , it shall plainely appeere anon in place conuenient , that Angels are finite creatures , and definitiuely also in some certeine place : which thing can not possible accord to any vncreated essence at all . And therefore Angels they are not vncreated substances . 2 Secondly I prooue it thus . If Angels be vncreated , then are they eternall : but not eternall , therefore , not vncreated . That they are not eternall it is verie apparant . For , then should they be such as haue neither beginning , nor end of their essence : as also , their essence or nature it selfe , should then be such , as hath nothing in it either first , or last . But this agreeth onely to God himselfe , and not to any creature in heauen , or in earth . And therefore if there be Angels then were they created ; and if created , then created no doubt within the sixe daies as was shewed before . And thus much for the proofe of this point , by probable reasons . Pneumatomachus . Well . Let vs heare next the testimonie of fathers concerning this Question . Orthodoxus . Withall my hart . Wherein also ( for breuities sake ) I will onely but rehearse their names , and referre you to the consideration of their seuerall treatises . The authors be these . Methodius , Epiphanius , Athanasius , Augustine , Eucherius , Theodoretus , and Damascenus . All these doe verie confidenly auouch vpon speciall occasions , and , against the Manicheis , the Priscillianists , and other such heretikes : that the Angels whatsoeuer were the vndoubted workmanship of God , howsoeuer their creation is not apparantly layd forth in the sacred Scriptures . Yea , The Councels of Laterane and Bracha both , do ioyntly determine , that the Angels are created of God , and are not eternall : in so much , as if any shall hold the contrarie , they conclude him accursed of God. Thus then , you see it apparantly euident by Scripture , by reasons , and the testimonies also of sundrie fathers : that Angels and spirits ( being finite creatures of God ) were vndoubtedly created within the sixe daies . Pneumatomachus . But in what day of those sixe were they created ? Orthodoxus . Touching the verie day it selfe , there is some difference in iudgement among the Diuines : some hold they were created the first day , and some the second . But , whether of both , is not certainely concluded : although it may probably be gathered , they were ( in verie deed ) created the secondday , thus . That they were created before the third day , may plainely be proued by the words of the Lord vnto Iob , saying . Where wert thou when I layd the foundations of the earth ? Declare if thou hast vnderstanding . Who hath layd the measures thereof if thou knowest ? Or who hath stretched the line ouer it ? Where upon are the foundations thereof set ? Or , who laide the corner stone thereof ? When the starres of the morning praised me , and all the sonnes of God reioyced ? The Lord in that place ( by the sonnes of God ) vnderstandeth the Angels and spirits : affirming moreouer , that , euen they also did celebrate his name with praise , so soone as he had layd the earthes foundation . Now the earth ( Moses saith ) was made the third day : and therefore , if the Angels on that day sang prayses to God , it followeth necessarily , they were then created before : for , how should they sing prayses before their creation ? But , it is vnlikely they were the first day created : because , nothing on that day was created ( saith Moses ) but the confused Chaos from whence the rest of the creatures were orderly formed : and that primarie light , which separated the night from the day . If followeth therefore , that they were all created the second day , together with that celestiall firmament : vnder whose name is also contayned that supreme heauen , which is called the third heauen , paradice , or the heauen of the blessed . And this thing also is yet more plainely expressed by the words of our Sauiour Christ , who saith that the kingdome of heauen was prepared for the elect , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from the worlds foundation : that is , after the Lord , vpon the very first day had created the Chaos aforesaid , then by and by , from out of that Chaos , was brought the firmament ( as Moses affirmeth ) which the Lord God prepared for all the elect . By all this it is euident , that Angels and Spirits , they are essential creatures of God , created also within the six daies : and so ( by consequence ) your vnanswerable argument , is answered ( you see ) to the full . Pneumatomachus . I acknowledge no lesse . But sir , ( hauing layd downe the mayne grounds of my errour , and answered directly my arguments ) it remaineth by promise , that now likewise you produce your owne reasons , to prooue plainely vnto me , both spirits and Diuels . Orthodoxus . Verie true . And therefore ( hauing first remooued the olde rubbish which ouerturned the rule of your reason ) it commeth now verie fitly in place , to shew further vnto you , that , the Angels of God ( whether good or euill ) are truely essentiall and substantiall spirits : as may plainely appeere by these following reasons , & first , from their sundry names attributed vnto them thus : 1 Names , they are the signes and notions of things . Which names , when they signifie any thing , properly subsisting of it selfe : then , that thing also it selfe is a substance no doubt . But the Angels , they are set forth by sundry names , which do signifie substances . For , first they be called Angels , that is to say , messengers : but , a messenger , or a minister appointed , cannot but be a subsistance . Also , they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ that is , intellectuall powers : but , that which hath vnderstanding and knowledge , is vndoubtedly a substance . Briefly , they be called Satan , that is an aduersarie , also Diuels , that is accusors also , strong armed men , also the God of this world , the princes and powers of the ayre , the gouernours of this world , murderers , roring lions , the dragon , the old serpent , & so forth . All which seueral names , do vndoubtedly signifie a thing subsisting ; wherein is a power , from whence proceedeth an action : and therefore , there are essentiall spirits and Diuels . 2 Againe , if spirits and Diuels were onely but the secret motions and affections of men , then vndoubtedly , so many famous actions as the Scriptures record , and the same also externally to the outward senses , could in no wise accord vnto them : but the consequent is false , for the Scriptures apparantly , and without any trope , doe celebrate their office , and record their sundrie actions , namely , that they stand before God , serue him , execute his precepts and iudgements , that they doe daily , assault , tempt , torment , circumuent , and seeke to deuoure vs , and so foorth . But , how should these , or any one of these actions , be possibly performed of such as are not in ( deed ) true substances ? 3 Againe , things created in them selues and not in an other subiect , yea , and so , as they subsist of them selues alone , those things vndoubtly haue a true subsistance . But , spirits and Diuels , they are so created ( no doubt ) as they subsist in them selues , neither are they inherent , or inexistent , in any other subiect whatsoeuer : and therefore spirits and Diuels , they haue vndoubtedly a true subsistance . 4 Againe , whatsoeuer liuing creature is endued with reason , vnderstanding , and will , that must needs be some thing of it selfe subsisting : but , spirits and Diuels , they are liuing creatures endued with reason , vnderstanding , and will : and therefore , somethings ( no doubt ) of themselues subsisting . 5 Againe , nothing can possiblie persist in the truth , nor nothing can fall from their first estate , vnlesse the same be some essence subsisting of it selfe , and pertaker also of vnderstanding , and will. But , some of the Angels doe perseuere in the truth , and some againe , haue fallen from the same : and therefore , Angels and spirits , are some essences subsisting of themselues , and pertakers also of vnderstanding and will. 6 Againe , if spirits and Diuels , were onely but the euill motions , and affections arising in men , it shoulde be absurde , either to distinguish their numbers , or to expresse their seuerall actions : but the consequent is false , as all that feare God will confesse , and therefore also the antecedent it selfe . 7 Againe , whatsoeuer doth speake , assault , suggest , tempt , afflict , torment , and circumuent , to deuoure , that must necessarilie be a subsistance . But spirits and Diuels doe so , for they spake to Euah , they assaulted Achab , and suggested an vntruth into all his prophets , they tempted Christ , they afflicted and tormented Saul , they made Iudas to hang himselfe , they seeke to winnowe and fanne men , yea & to circumuent al the children of God to destruction : and therefore , spirits and Diuels , must necessarilie be some subsistance . 8 Againe , if Angels and spirits be onely but accidentall affections , and no true substances in deed , then , neither shall we after this life , be anie true substances , for , the scriptures affirme , that after the resurrection , we shall be like to the Angels in heauen . Now then , if Angels and spirits be not true substances in deed , shall we also cease to be substances ? 9 Againe , Aristotle , he prooues this world to be perfect , for that it consistes of all those things which can be desired therein , or which may in any wise appertain to the perfection thereof . Howbeit , to the perfection of the whole , there is required therein , three seuerall sorts of substances : the first inuisible , the second visible , and the third partly inuisible & partly visible . The second sort , namely the visible substances , are the heauens , the elements , and all things made of the elements . The third sort , namely the substances , partly inuisible , and partly visible , are men who consist of a soule and body togither , the soule inuisible , and the bodie visible . Now then , if Angels , who are of themselues inuisible , should not be substances , then should there be wanting to the world , inuisible substances : and so , the worlde should be vnperfect . But the world , it is perfect , as all , both Philosophers and Diuines do affirme . And therefore Angels they be substances inuisible and spirituall . 10 Lastly , common experience ( from the beginning of the world to this present hower ) hath apparently approued vnto vs , that there be Angelicall spirits and Diuels : and therefore not to be denied of any , vnlesse he will shew himselfe a swinish Saduce , or some monkish Anthropomorphite , as was shewed before . And thus haue you briefly heard my seuerall reasons , which prooue vnto you both spirits and Diuels . Pneumatomachus . Sir , by that which you haue spoken , I am now throughlie perswaded , that Angels are indeed essentiall and spirituall substances . Howbeit , this one thing doth trouble me greatly : namely , that ( seeing all Angels were equally created according to the true image of God ) no one of them all may truely be said to be euill . Orthodoxus . You do well in deliuering your doubtes , but , goe to , frame your argument . Pneumatomachus . I frame it thus . A thing created to the image of God , cannot be , nor may not be said to be euill . But all Angels and spirites were ( in the beginning ) created all alike to the image of God : therefore no Angell or spirite either can be , or may be said to be euill . Now sir , if none of them can , or may be said to be euill : how should there be any Diuels at all ? Orthodoxus . Verie true as you saie , if that which you seeme to conclude were as truely concluded . Howbeit , I answere thus . First concerning your proposition I say . That , so farre foorth as any thing created to Gods image hath truelie that image , keepeth and looseth it not : so farre foorth , and so long , anie such thing may not truely be saide to be euill . Now next to your assumption I answere thus . All those Angelicall spirits so created of God , they did not retaine and holde falt that true image of God wherein they were first created : but willingly reiected and fledde from the same . And therefore I distinguish thus . Angels created in the beginning according to the true image of God , did either perseuer in that originall integritie : or else , they wilfully fell from the same . The one sort are finally confirmed in that selfe-same goodnes wherein they were first created , and therefore , good Angels : the other sort loosing their first goodnes , are hardened in that selfe-same euill whereinto they first fell , and therefore euill Angels . So then , to imagine that the euill Angels also notwithstanding their euilnes , must still shewe foorth that selfe-same image of God from which they fearefully fell : is nothing else in effect , but to confound the formes of their distinguished kindes . For it is one thing to be created good ; and another thing , still to retaine that selfe-same goodnes . The one is past : the other is present . And the vanitie of that childish conceite may be made euident by the like reason thus . All men are created in Adam to the image of God. But Atheists and vngodly ones are men : therefore Atheistes and vngodly ones , they shewe foorth the image of God. Here is more in the conclusion , then was put in the premisses . For this onely shoulde folowe , namely , that Atheistes in as much as they are men , were first created according to the image of God : but in that they are now falne , they do resemble the image of the Diuell . Pneumatomachus . Sir , my iudgement concerning these points , is now ( I praise God ) so cleerly enlightned , as my neighbour Lycanthropus & my selfe may wel be at one : being both fully resolued ( I hope ) in that selfe same controuersie which we held so hotly as we came from Mahgnitton . Lycanthropus . If you be therein at one with your selfe : you are also at one with me . For , I was resolued before , and your selfe now confesfesseth : that there are essentiall spirits and diuels . Pneumatomachus . Yea , I doe freely confesse it from my verie hart . Physiologus . I am right glad to heare so good a beginning . Exorcistes . And euen so am I , I assure you . Orthodoxus . Gods name be blessed for this speciall grace . Lycanthropus . So be it . But sir ? as there will be tyde after tyde , all the while the Seas themselues doe ebbe and flowe : so surely , so long as men haue in them their boyling affections , so long no doubt , the dispatch of one controuersie , will be but the beginning of another , as we see here by present experience . For , at our very first meeting , my friend Phylologus affirmed flatly , that ( howsoeuer there be granted essential spirits and Diuels ) their possession ( in these daies of the Gospell ) is denied of some , and doubted of manie . Philologus . I said so in deed . Orthodoxus . This fals foorth verie fit for the next mayne point , Namely , what we haue to consider concerning spirits and Diuels . Howbeit , because ( it may be ) you grow faint by reason of trauell : Let vs here breake off ( & after we haue refreshed our bodies ) make speedie recourse to this present place : and so enter a fresh on the matter . Physiologus . Sir , we doe willingly attend your good pleasure : if it pleaseth the rest of our companie . Lycanthropus . It pleaseth vs woonderous well . For the motion ( I assure you ) is such , as I would haue made mine owne selfe : but for giuing offence . Orthodoxus . Let vs then arise and depart . The end of the first Dialogue . The second Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . The power of Spirits and Diuels , their possession , what it is : and whether the Diuell doth essentially enter into the possessed mans minde , or not ? The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOMACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Philologus . GOod Sirs ? We three haue long expected your comming : howbeit , you are hartely welcome . Lycanthropus . Phylologus ( I perceiue ) is wholy vpon the matter . Pneumatomachus . Pardon the man , he is pained ( you see ) like to a trauelling woman , that wanteth onely a midwife . Physiologus . What is the opinion ( I pray you ) that troubleth his patience ? Lycanthropus . This Sir. He saith , that howsoeuer there be granted essentiall spirits and Diuels , yet , their possession ( in these daies of the Gospell ) is denied of some : and doubted of many . Philologus . I said so in deed . And , although I dare not flatly denie : yet , I also doe much doubt it my selfe . Physiologus . Your name I perceiue , is Philologus : which in signification , is as much to say , as a man that delighteth or loueth to talke . You propound not this opinion of purpose ( I hope ) to declare vnto vs , that you haue a name giuen you , very fitly resembling your nature : namely , that you are but a talkatiue person , or one that taketh great pleasure to heare himselfe speake in these points ? Philologus . No truely , I propound the same in simplicitie of hart , shewing you plainely what my selfe suppose : and desiring resolution wherein I do doubt . Physiologus . Wherefore doubt you that Diuels haue possession in men ? Philologus . Because I suppose it impossible in nature : and , incredible also in all sound Diuinitie . Lycanthropus . What Philologus ? Is it supernaturall for the Diuell to possesse a man ? Doe not the scriptures in euerie place speake plainely of the possessed with Diuels ? of the entring of Diuels into men ? of casting them foorth ? of the Diuell that entred into the hart of Iudas ? of the Diuell that filled Ananiah his hart with a lye , and a thousand such places ? All which , so apparantly and so plainely approoueth this point : that ( for any to doubt thereof ) were but to call into question , the sunshine at mid-day . Philologus . I neither hold in supernaturall , for the Diuell ( in some sort ) to possesse a man : neither doubt I of that truth which those Scriptures import . I onely suppose , that the matter it selfe is not so grossely to be vnderstood , as some ( from those places ) would seeme to conclude : wherein , I do freely submit to maister Orthodoxus his censure . And therefore , obiect what you can for your selfe : and , let him resolue vs both in the point . Lycanthropus . Content , if it please him to take the paines . Orthodoxus . With verie good will , and so much the rather , because it falleth foorth fit for our next generall purpose ; namely , what we haue especially to consider in spirits and Diuels . Lycanthropus . What haue we especially to consider in them ? Orthodoxus . Hauing prooued directly , that there be Spirits and Diuels : we haue now next , to consider in them , two principall things . The first concerneth their power ouer men : the second respecteth the timely subduing of that selfe same power . Lycanthropus . What meane you by their power ouer men ? Orthodoxus . I vnderstand thereby , that Dominion , or rule which the verie Diuels themselues ( by the iust iudgement of God ) doe ( in all outrage ) euen exercise ouer the naturall ofspring of Adam : and , which is vndoubtedly most woonderfull , respecting both body and soule . Howbeit , this their appointed power is determinate , finite , and limited certainely within it owne speciall bounds : albeit the Diuell ( in an especiall regard thereof ) be called the prince of this world : the God of this world : the prince of airie powers : and that strong armed man which keepeth his house in peace , till some stronger inuade him . And , this their saide power is twofold . Namely , either their power of possession : or , their power of obsession . Lycanthropus . What is your opinion ( I pray you ) concerning the possession of Diuels : in these daies of the Gospell ? Orthodoxus . My opinion therein , shall be shewed at large : after your selfe haue first opened vnto me , what you doe meane , by the Diuell his possession in man. Lycanthropus . By the Diuell his possession in man , I vnderstand his essentiall and violent entring into him , as men , by force and armes doe enter an house : and so , inherently possesseth , and peaceably enioyeth that selfe same person , as his proper possession , and peculiar dominion , appointed vnto him of God. For , possession ( you know ) it importeth a peaceable dominion . Orthodoxus . That , possession importeth a peaceable dominion , we do neuer denie . But where prooue you such an essentiall possession as your selfe speaketh of , in all the Scriptures ? Nay , where finde you these wordes ( possession , or possessed ) peculiarly appropriated to the Diuell ouer men : throughout the whole Bible , in the old , or new testament . Lycanthropus . Where finde I the words ( possession , or possessed ) appropriate to Diuels , throughout the whole Bible ? Surely , wheresoeuer the Euangelist Mathew doth handle those matters , there he vsually , and purposely puts downe those selfe same wordes . As for example , he saith , they brought many to Christ that were possessed with Diuels . Againe , he healed many that were possessed with Diuels . Againe , there met him two possessed with Diuels . Againe , they told the people what was become of the possessed with Diuels . Againe , they brought vnto him , a dumbe man possest with a Diuell . Yea , and in euerie place else , where like occasion is offred , he vseth like speach : which argueth euidently , that the Diuell hath an essentiall possession in men . Orthodoxus . Arguing ( as you doe ) from a deceiueable ground , you cannot possibly collect from thence , any certaine conclusions : concerning especially your cause in Question . For , this I assure you of , that , in no one of those places which your selfe haue recited , neither , in any other text else throughout the whole Bible , is there any one word in the Originall , that importeth an essentiall possession applied to Diuels : I meane , that ( by any one Lexicon ) may possibly bestretched to signifie any such essentiall inherencie of Diuels in the bodies of men , howsoeuer it hath pleased the English translator to thrust in the same . Lycanthropus . The English translatour , he hath thrust in no more I hope : then the originall text will beare . Orthodoxus . Yes , howsoeuer your selfe doe absurdly collect from the English translation , an essentiall possession of diuels : I assure you of this , there is no one word throughout the original , intēding such purpose . And , verie certaine I am , that , if the holy Ghost had euer but purposed to put downe such an essentiall possession of Diuels , as you would beare vs in hand : he wanted not his proper words or termes to expresse the same either in the Hebrew or Greeke , in which two languages , the canonicall scriptures themselues , were primarily indighted by the spirit of God. For , first concerning possession : the Hebrewes they vse ( for the most part ) two speciall words to expresse the same . Lycanthropus . What is the first word they vse for possession ? Orthodoxus . The first word is achuzzah , which ariseth from the radicall verbe , achaz : that is , to hold , to apprehend , to detaine , or retaine the thing apprehended : to obtaine verie firmely , or strongly . Hereof comes , the nowne , achuz : which properly signifieth , that speciall part of the inheritance which is taken , apprehended , or held by a speciall right . As appeareth in Nombers , saying : But of the halfe of the Israelites ( which went not to warre ) thou shalt take one ( achuz ) that is one apprehended , possessed , or taken out of fiftie . In like manner from the aforesaid radicall word ( achaz ) is deriued the nowne , achuzzah : which properly importeth such a detension , apprehension , or possession , as is peculiarly possessed of the possessours themselues , as verie plainely appeareth in Nombers , by the Rubenits petition put vp vnto Moses , saying thus . If we haue found grace in thine eies , let this land be giuen to thy seruants ( laachuzzah ) that is , for a peculiar possession , and bring vs not ouer Iorden . The verie selfe same vse of this word , appeareth also in Ioshuah , saying thus . Now returne ye , and goe to your tents , achuzzathchem , that is , to the land of your proper possession : or to that land which you peculiarly apprehend , possesse and hold . Againe in the second Psalme , the holy Ghost puts downe that selfe same word , to the selfe same purpose , saying thus : Desire of me , and , I will giue thee the heathen for thine inheritance ; and the vtmost part of the earth : vaachuzzatheak , that is , for thy possession , or thy peculiar apprehension and right . In these and infinit other places of scripture , the holy Ghost ( you see ) entending purposely to speake of any matter of possession : he vseth a verie fit and significant word for that selfe same purpose . And therefore , if he had euer purposed to put downe any such essentiall possession of Diuels , as you dreame of : he wanted not words for the same . Although notwithstanding , this I must tell you withall , that if he had borrowed this word from the Hebrewes for such a supposed purpose : Yet could not the same haue imported any such an essentiall inherencie in the bodies of men , as you beare vs in hand , but had signified onely , an apprehending , an holding , a firme detayning , or possessing of a thing , and no more . Lycanthropus . Well , yet in the new testament ( it may be ) the Greeke text , hath for that Hebrew word achaz : some word in the Scriptures importing such an essentiall possession . Orthodoxus . It may be it hath not : and , how then ? that it hath not , it is verie apparant . For , from this Hebrew word , achaz : the Grecians ( by an inuersion , or turning of letters ) doe purposely deriue the Greeke verbe Scheo : which signifieth to apprehend , or hold . And thereof comes , metascheo : which signifieth to apprehend , or lay fast hold vpon . Also , kateschon : which signifieth to detaine . Also , ischanao : which signifieth to retaine , or to hold . Againe , they vse eftsoones the word ctema : which properly signifieth a possession : albeit that men captiuated and taken in warres , are also called , ctemata : that is , such persons as are made bondslaues , or held in a slauish thraldome or bondage . This word ctema , is ordinarily obserued in the new testament , to set foorth possessions by : as appeareth in sundrie places . Neither of these words is vsed of the holy Ghost , to expresse that your pretended possession of Diuels : which if they had beene indeed , yet ( vnlesse to apprehend , to hold , to containe , to detaine , to retaine , or keepe fast , be but one , and the same with these your supposed essentiall possessions ) you cannot congruently conclude from thence , any essentiall inherencie of Diuels , in the bodies of men . Lycanthropus . Well , be it so : but what is that other word which the Hebrewes doe vse for possessions ? Orthodoxus . The other word which they commonly obserue for such purpose , is , iereshah : arising from the radical word , iarash : that is , to possesse certaine bounds or territories , to hold in his proper right dominion , or power : to obtaine by special right , to inherite , &c. Properly , it signifies the challenging of something peculiar to a mans selfe , the same being primarily obtained by his proper coyne , by a lawfull succession , or proper dominion : as a thing that was conquered by warre , or some other such meanes . Neither is such a possession as the word , iareshah importeth to be only vnderstood of grounds , or of territories : but the same also , is vsually spoken of such seruants , or men , as are brought into bondage . It hath a speciall affinitie with two other Hebrew words : namely , aresheth : which signifieth a contentious , importunity , or an earnest begging of something : and , rashah , which signifieth to grant , or giue power . Because , to possesse a man , is , so to employ him , withall his faculties , possessions , and treasures : as if he were altogither , but an exiled person , or a poore man destitute of succour , being vtterly eiected from his proper bounds , and peculiar territories . For the sense of this word , iarash ; you may see in sundrie places : especially , in Ieremie . Hereof comes ( as I told you before ) the word , iereshah : that is , a possession : and thereby , is signified properly , any thing whatsoeuer , that hath beene subdued by the partie possessing the same , as appeareth in Nombers . Also , from the word iarash , is deriued the nowne , ierushah : which signifieth properly , such a possession as some doth peculiarly possesse . And , this word , is so taken , but thrise in the Bible . Howbeit , when this word , ierushah , is applied to the hart : then , it betokeneth properly , those selfesame cogitations or thoughts , which the minde it selfe doth peaceably possesse : as appeareth in Iob , where he saith . My daies are passed away , my cogitations are violently taken from me : I meane ( morashe lebabi ) the possessions of my hart . That is , those happie and comfortable cogitations which my soule in a good conscience , by the blessing of God , did chalenge to it selfe by a peculiar right or possession . In like maner , from , iarash , ariseth the word , morashah : which signifieth properly , such a kinde of possession as people enioy by a certaine peculiar right , as appeareth in Deuteronomie , where the people say thus : Moses commanded vs a law , morashah kehillath Iaakob . I meane , a peculiar inheritance for the congregation of Iaakob : That , is , such an inheritance , as shall passe , by an hereditarie right or possession , among the house of Israel , from generation to generation . The like vse of this word morashah , doth euidently appeare by those seuerall quotations of scripture ; which we haue purposely put downe in the Margine . By all which it is verie apparant , that , albeit the holy Ghost should haue purposely vsed any one of these Hebrew words to expresse your pretended possession of Diuels : yet could you not haue concluded from thence any such an essentiall inherencie of Diuels in the bodies of men , as you would beare vs in hand . Licanthropus . But , doth not the Greeke word , which the Septuagint vseth to expresse the word , iarash ; import so much ? Orthodoxus . Nothing lesse I assure you . For , from that word iarash : ariseth , orizo , and orixomai : which signifies , to bound , or determine the territories , and possessions of land . From thence also is deriued these following nownes : namely , orion , and orismos : which signifieth , a bondarie , a definition , or constitution . Also , this word , exorizo , that is , to exterminate , or to disherite . Also , exorismos : which betokenth an exile , or banishment . From whence also ariseth verie fitly , the inheriting , or dishinheriting : or rather ( if you please ) the possessing , and dispossessing of heirs . The Gretians in like sort they vse another word , called cleronomia ; which signifies properly , an inheritance , or rule of possessions . Briefly , albeit , the holy Ghost ( in the new testament ) hath sundry words to set out the possession of things as appeareth by the places put downe in the Margine : yet , could no one of them all haue fitted your turne , or possibly haue extended it selfe to this your pretended purpose . By all the premisses then , it is verie apparant , that , if the holy Ghost had euer determined to establish your supposed essentiall possession of Diuels : he wanted not proper and significant wordes to expresse his said purpose . Albeit notwithstanding , if he had purposely put downe any one of these wordes either Hebrew or Greeke to import a possession vnto vs : yet woulde no one of them all ( in any congruent speech ) haue euer beene able to auouch that essentiall inherencie of Diuels in the bodies of men , which your selfe woulde fondly conclude from our English translation , without any warrant at all from the originall text . Lycanthropus . Though none of the Euangelistes haue precisely put downe in any one of those places , no such word at all , as may properly expresse the essentiall possession of spirits and Diuels : perhaps yet , they haue some other word else equiualent therewith in sence . Orthodoxus . Perhaps no : and , without al peraduenture they haue not . For , the very word it selfe , which the holie Ghost obserueth in euerie of those your quoted Scriptures , is Daemonizoménoi : which with all true interpretours , both Latine , Italian , French , and English , is ordinarily and vsually translated Demoniakes : that is , men Diuillished , I meane actually afflicted , tormented , or vexed with Diuels . But no one of them all did euer translate it thus ; namely , men essentially possessed with Diuels inherently in them . Yea , this very word Daemonizoménos , is not onely so translated , but , is so also vnderstood of the most iudiciall , and soundest Diuines . For not any one of them all , do vnderstand the same of essentiall possessions : but , euery of them do take it to signifie onely , some such extraordinarie actual affliction , vexation , or torment , as Satan himselfe ( by the speciall appointment of God ) doth effectiuely inflict vpon men for a time . If you haplie doe call the truth of that which I speake into question , let their seuerall writings be exactly considered , and then tell me , whether any one of them all do vnderstand by Demoniakes , any such persons as are essentially possest with a Diuell inherently in them , as your selfe very fondly imagine : and not such rather , as ( by the extremitie of those their actuall torments ) are become outragiouslie furious , cruell , and quite out of order . Thus then , by all the premisses it is very apparant ( you see ) that , neither by a proper significant terme , nor by any other word else equiualent therewith , neither yet by the translations of learned Interpretours , or the exquisite iudgement of soundest Diuines , you may from those your quoted scriptures , ( in any possible or congruent order ) vndertake to conclude ( as you doe ) the essentiall possession of spirits and Diuels : but , must necessarilie take them onelie for such Demoniakes , or diuellished persons , as are actually afflicted , tormented , or vexed by Satan . Lycanthropus . Why then shoulde the translatour so presumptuously put downe the word possession : if no such thing be apparant in all the originall ? Orthodoxus . That there is no such matter there ( as your selfe supposeth ) you haue sufficiently heard before . Neither did the translatour himselfe ( as it seemes ) intend any such essentiall possessions , but onely an actuall vexation by Satan : howsoeuer he did to careleslie put downe the word possession : as a worde more familiar amongst vs. No surely , it is certaine , the Euangelist himselfe , he neuer entended such essentiall possessions by the word Daemonizoménoi : but onely an actuall affliction , vexation or torment . And therefore the other two Euangelistes Marke and Luke ( reporting with Mathewe , those selfesame stories , concerning the aforesaide Demoniakes ) they vse not the worde possessed at all . But , those whom Mathewe intituleth Demoniackes , Marke termeth , a man hauing an vncleane spirite : and Luke , he saith there mette Christ , a man who had a Diuel a long time . Making it a matter meerely indifferent , and alone in effect , to be a Demoniacke , and to haue a Diuel , or an vncleane spirite : as for the word possessed , they neuer vse it , neither is the same found throughout the originall , applyed to Diuels . And vndoubtedlie , these words ( possession , or possessed ) being carelesly thrust into the texte hand ouer head by our English translators : is not the leaste occasion , that the whole world ( by a common receiued errour from hand to hand ) hath beene so vniuersallie possessed with manie grosse errours concerning the Diuel his supposed possession in man. Moreouer , whereas you boldely affirme , that the Euangelist Mathew , in euery place els , where like occasion is offered , doth vsuallie obserue the selfesame phrase ; that is not so . For ( speaking of the woman of Canaans Demoniacke daughter ) he saith not , haue mercy on me , for my daughter is pitifully possessed : but , my daughter is miserably vexed with a Diuel . Exorcistes . What then I pray you , doth your selfe vnderstand by the Diuel his power of possession ? Orthodoxus . By the diuel his power of possession , I vnderstand , that his tyrannical dominion which ( by a peculiar proprietie , according to the purpose of God ) he doth exercise ouer some speciall persons , in afflicting , tormenting , and tempting both inwardly , and outwardlie : so farforth especiallie , as his commission permittes him . Philologus . Giue me leaue ( good sir ) to interrupt you a little . For , either my wittes are wyld , or , Lycanthropus and your selfe , haue both ( at vnwares ) concluded one and the selfesame thing , concerning the diuell his possession in man : surely , for my owne part , I perceiue in your speaches no difference at al. Orthodoxus . If your wittes were wyld , you would then imagine , as the dronken man doth , that , what one thing soeuer you behold at a blush , were vndoubtedly twaine : whereas you rather conclude , that , two distinct matters , are but one and the same . And therefore , your wittes ( it should seeme ) are , rather worne to the stumps , then wyld : being vnable to discerne the difference betwene our two speches , the difference it selfe , being so apparantly euident . For , whereas Lycanthropus verie confidentlie auoucheth a substantial entraunce of the Diuel into man , as it were with force and armes , to conquere and keepe a possession : I ( deliuering briefelie my mind , concerning the Diuel his possession in man ) spake onelie of his afflicting , tormenting , and vexing of man. Howbeit , for further clearing the Question , we must here distinquish the Diuel his supposed possession , thus : namelie , it is either a real , or an actual possession . Lycanthropus . What is the real possession ? Orthodoxus . The reall possession , is supposed to be some essentiall , substantiall , or personall entrance of the Diuell into man , for a more effectuall executing of that his tyrannicall force and violence vpon him . And , this supposed possession ( how incredible soeuer ) is thought to be twofold : namely , either a mentall , or corporall possession . Lycanthropus . What meane you by mentall possession ? Orthodoxus . Some vnderstand thereby , that selfesame proprietie , right or dominion whereby the Diuell doth really , and essentially enter into , and inherently dwell in the possessed mans minde , during the whole terme of that his tyrannicall dominion . Now then , the matter of possession it selfe being thus farre discouered , I would gladly learne of Lycāthropus , after what maner he imagineth the Diuell to haue a possession in man ? Whether really , or actually ? My meaning is , whether he holdeth the Diuell to haue a personall possession in man : or , a possession rather , by some powerfull effecte . Lycanthropus . I am confidently perswaded , that the Diuell hath a verie reall , essentiall , substantiall , or corporall possession in those whatsoeuer , whom he fully possesseth . Orthodoxus . I thought euen so : and therefore , was driuen to distinguish the supposed possession of Diuels as I did . Notwithstanding sith you so confidently ascribe vnto Diuels such a reall and personall possession : Doe tell me yet further , whether you hold , that the Diuels do really and substantially enter into the minde alone , or into the bodie alone , or into the body and minde together ? Exorcistes . Sir , let me freely afoord my opinion ( I pray you ) concerning this speciall point . Orhodoxus . Speake freely , and spare not . Exorcistes . I am verily perswaded , that the Diuell ( if he haue any reall possession at all ) hath onely mental possession : my meaning is , that he doth substantially possesse the minde alone . Orthodoxus . What is your reason ? Exorcistes . My reason is this . Seeing the minde it selfe , and it onely is that wherein motion consisteth , and seeing the bodie is but the mindes organon or instrument , hauing naturally in it selfe no motion at all , or , no further motion at most , then for those only actions wherein the said mind ( whose organon it is ) imployeth the same : It seemeth reasonable , that therefore , the diuell must really and substantially , first possesse the minde it selfe , or euer he can possibly bring the bodie , vnto any disordered actions , or , cause it to accomplish any his diuellish attempts . And , euen so the Euangelist Iohn , he expounds himselfe concerning the diuell his possessing of Iudas . For , where he affirmeth that Satan ( after the soppe ) did enter into Iudas : that possession or entrance into him he sheweth before , to be nothing else in effect , but , a putting into Iudas his hart , to betray his maister . Demonstrating plainely vnto vs , that the diuell himselfe , did first enter substantially into Iudas his hart or minde : before he could bring his bodie or toong to attempte the entended treason . Orthodoxus . Your plaine demonstration , doth plainely demonstrate the contrarie to that which you seeme to conclude : and the verie text which you quote , doth euen cut the throat of your childish opinion , or Cabalisticall fantasie concerning Satan his sopposed substantiall possession . For , seeing that Satan ( in possessing Iudas ) did onely but put the entended treason into Iudas his hart : it doth plainely appeare , that , the diuell had in him no substantiall possession at all , but onely , an actuall , or powerfull possession . By which said powerfull possession , the diuell ( according to God his determinate councell ) did but actually suggest , and effectually thrust the intended treason into Iudas his hart . Besides that , if the diuell ( as your selfe , doth imagine ) must first , essentially enter into the minde of a man , before he can bring the body it selfe to accomplish any his enterprises : it followeth consequently , that euerie man then , is essentially possest of the diuell in his minde at the least , because euerie man ( more or lesse ) doth actually effect many diuelish actions . And thus you may see your reason is too too absurd , or rather no reason at all , to conclude the mentall possession of diuels . Physiologus . Sir , as your selfe haue plainely satisfied Exorcistes his place of scripture , and therewithal fullie ouerthrowne his supposed mental possession : so , let me now answere I pray you , that very point of his argument , from whence ( though falslie ) he would seeme to inforce his dangerous inferrēce . Thus he reasoneth . The bodie of man , is but a bare organon of the mind , to put onelie in action the mindes conceipte : therefore , the Diuel must first conquere and fullie possesse the mind it selfe , before he can bring the bodie vnto anie disordered actions . This I suppose is his argument : and , from hence he would also implicatiuely conclude , that therefore , the Diuel hath no power of him selfe , either to tempt , or torment anie man outwardlie in his bodie , before he hath first subdued and maistered his mind by a real possession . Exorcistes . That in deed is my inferrence , and so I conclude . Physiologus . This then I must tel you for trueth , that ( howsoeuer you seeme in showe ) you are nothing in substance : because neither is your inferrence sound , nor your conclusion currant . For , howsoeuer I do freelie confesse , there can be no actual accomplishment of the worke of sinne , before the mind it selfe ( being first conuict ) be made to consent yet doth it not follow , but that ( notwithstanding al this ) a man may outwardlie be tempted to sinne , and tormented also of Satan , though inwardlie , the mind it selfe be neuer subdued . And , although it be vndoubtedlie true , that euerie man ( being tempted ) is inticed and drawen by his owne concupiscence , namely , by the concupiscible faculty of his proper mind : yet , this is also as certeinly true , namely , that , euen the concupiscible facultie also it selfe , is first set a worke by meanes of the phantasie , or interiour sensitiue power . Which said sensitiue power ( receyuing an impression of such sensible things as are offred vnto her from the exteriour obiectes of the exteriour sences ) doth foorthwith set the concupiscible facultie a worke , and makes it to lust after those sensible things in conceipte . As for example , whensoeuer the diuel entendeth to worke mans mind to his mischeauous purpose , he first makes an assault vpon that which we cal the sensitiue facultie ; and ( by offring some deceaueable obiect vnto the exteriour senses ) endeuoureth to circumuent the sences them selues , and , so he bewitcheth the mind . And , euen after this sorte he seduced the eares , and the eies of Euah her selfe : telling her confidentlie , they should knowe good and euil , making her also beleeue , that the forbidden fruite was fayre to behold , and thereby subdued her sensitiue facultie . And , because the delight of the exteriour senses , is to litle or no purpose without the desire of the mind : the diuel therefore proceedeth next to encounter with that which we cal the concupiscible facultie , namely , that , by which we are earnestlie alured to affect those sensible things , wherein the interiour sensitiue facultie so highlie delighteth . And hereupon also ( by a false perswasion of good ) he enticed Euah to couet that fruite forbidden : and so conquered likewise , her concupiscible facultie . And , because it is to litle or no purpose at al , that , the concupiscible facultie ( being filthelie deceaued by a false perswasion of good ) should affect the tentation , vnles the vnderstanding also approue of the same : the diuel therefore , he laboureth next , to conquer that principall power of the mind , which we cal the intellectiue faculty . And , this also he endeuoureth to doe , by discrediting that selfesame truth wherupon the intellectiue facultie should fullie and finallie resolue it selfe , notwithstanding anie the forenamed deceaueable alurements from the sensitiue or concupiscible facultie arising against it . And , euen after this sort he also preuayled with Euah : falsifying that infallible truth of God , which told her they should dy the death , & so ouercame her intellectiue facultie . And , because it is to litle or no purpose , though the sensitiue , the concupiscible , and intellectiue faculties also be seuerallie taynted , so long as the mind it selfe with a valorous power withstands the tentation : the diuel therefore , he laboreth lastlie , to leauie his vttermost force against that which we call the irascible facultie , that I meane , wherewith we should mightelie withstand anie his mischieuous purposes , according to the true direction of the intellectiue facultie it selfe . And therefore , this irascible facultie he eftsoones assaulteth afresh , by suggesting a false suspicion of some falslie supposed enuie or malice of God , in giuing that rule whereupon the vnderstanding relieth . And , euen by this selfe-same meanes , he cunningly circumuented our Grandmother Euah : telling her confidentlie , that God forbade them not to tast of that fruit , as being euill in it selfe , but , of a purposed malice to withhold them both from a more happie estate , and so , ( hauing fullie vanquished her irascible facultie ) he then forthwith effected the sinne to the full . Thus then , by al the premisses it is verie apparant , that , those sundrie tentations wherewith satan assaulteth mens minds , they do ordinarily arise , first , from external alurements , and so proceede ( by degrees ) to the mind it selfe : and that therefore , we neede not imagine anie such mental possession for Satan , before he can bring the bodie of man to those disordered actions , which tende to the full accomplishment of any his mischieuous purposes . For , by such mentall possession , he might truely be saide to tempt men rather by some appetible meanes , then by any suggesting maner at all : which were absurde to imagine , but verie ridiculous for any one to auouch . Lycanthropus . This sets foorth the subtile proceedings of Satan , in tempting men vnto sinne : but concludeth nothing against his mentall possession . Orthodoxus . It fully concludes the point for which especially the same was propounded : namely , that Satan he needeth not first to enter essentially into the possessed mans minde , before he can possiblie bring the bodie it selfe vnto his slauish subiection . And in verie deed , I see not to what purpose we should yeeld him any mentall possession at all ? Lycanthropus . Doe you confidently hold ; that the diuel hath no mentall possession in any ? Orthododoxus . I holde this for an infallible truth ; namely , that the diuell doth not essentially enter into any mans minde . Pneumatomachus . What reasons haue you for this your opinion ? Orthodoxus . I haue manifold reasons to induce me vnto it . Philologus . Let vs heare your reasons I pray you ? Orthodoxus . With verie good will. And for a plainer proceeding , I will first briefly put downe the reasons themselues : and then prosecute them at large as occasion is offred . Lycanthropus . We like well your order : and therefore lay downe your reasons . Orthodoxus . My reasons are these . 1. First , no such mentall possession may possiblie be prooued from the written word . 2 The diuell himselfe , as also mans minde , are euerie of them both , intellectuall powers , created of God for other more speciall ends , then that supposed mentall possession : it being no purposed end of God apparantly reuealed in all the scriptures . 3 They are both of them spirituall substances , the one not being ( by nature ) more subtile , more slender , or more thinne then the other , neither yet , of more capabilitie , or more apt to conteine then the other : whereby it might of that other be made the more capable . 4 There is nothing in heauen or in hel of power to penetrate , or to enter into the spirits of men , saue onely the eternall creatour of spirits . 5 By auouching the diuell to be inherently in the possessed mans minde , we doe fearefully derogate from the Deitie of the holie Ghost , and very dangerously darken the miraculous operations of that sacred spirite : whose peculiar office it is , by an vnspeakeable and admirable action , ( repletiuely ) to inhabite and dwell in our harts for euer . 6 If the diuell doth essentially enter into the very substance it selfe of the possessed mans minde : then necessarily there must be , either a confusion of substances , which to hold were absurd , or else a rending and separation of substances at least , called properly a vacuum , which were follie to imagine , but madnes for any to auouch . 7 If the euill Angels ( in the execution of iudgements ) do enter essentially into any mans minde : then also the good Angels ( in the execution of mercies ) they doe enter essentially into some mans minde . But the latter is false , and therefore also the first . 8 If the minde be wholy in the whole body , and wholy also in euery part : also , if it alone be the first substantiall forme and acte of a naturall bodie : how then may the diuell be possiblie inherent . in the possessed mans minde , but either there must be a penetrating of spiritual dimensions , or two distinct substances togither at once in one and the selfesame subiect , or , two substantiall formes in one and the same naturall bodie at least : all which are absurd . 9 If the diuell be essentially inherent in the possessed mans mind : then is he so , either dimensiuely , or repletiuely , or definitiuely at the least , or not at all . But not dimensiuely , for , so onely are corporall substances circumscribed in place : whereas the diuell , he is onely a spirituall essence , and therefore , not dimensiuely locall , as are corporall substances . Neither can he be in the possessed mans minde repletiuely , for so onely is God , who onely is of infinite and incircumscriptible being : and therefore repletiuely filleth each place whatsoeuer , whereas the diuell is onely a finite and circumscriptible creature , comprehended after a sort , in one peculiar place . And therefore he must necessarily be in the possessed mans minde definitiuely , or not at all . Which although it be so , yet can we not thereby conclude any substantiall inherencie , but a being there determinately , and in an onely conceite . 10 Lastly , if the possessed mans minde be essentially a place for the diuell : then is it , either a common place , and so capable of many substances together , or , a proper place , and so , absolutely able to circumscribe the diuell his essentiall being : for , a place is the circumscription of an essentiall substance . And then also the diuel , he must needes be a moueable bodie , yea and the possessed mans mind ( in that selfesame respect ) must also become an immoueable bodie : otherwaies , there would be a progresse in endlesnesse , which thing euer nature it selfe doth abhorre . Or els , if neither a common , nor proper place , then necessarilie an imaginarie place , or no place , at al : which , though it be graunted , doth not conclude anie real possession . For , an imaginarie place , is only a place in conceite : and so , by consequence , the diuel he hath onelie in man an imaginarie possession . Now then , al these the aforenamed reasons , doe make me to hold for infallible truth ; that the diuel doth neuer essentiallie enter into any mans minde . Pneumatomachus . Your reasons I assure you , they satisfie me to the full : but , what saith Lycanthropus concerning this point ? Lycanthropus I say and hold ( as before ) that the diuel ( in so manie at least as are subiected vnto him ) hath vndoubtedly an entire and absolute possession ; yea , euen in their verie mindes or hartes . Orthodoxus . No such mental possession , may possibly be proued from the written worde . Lycanthropus . Yes , the very scripitures themselues they plainely auouch , that the diuel entreth and dwelleth in man : that he entred into the heart of Iudas : that he filled Ananiah his heart , and so forth . What other thing els may be collected from thence ; but , that the diuel hath really in man , a mental possession ? Orthodoxus . You relie too much vpon the bare letter it selfe , and that is the onelie thing which deceaueth your iudgement . For , albeit the bare letter doth say that the diuel entreth into , and dwelleth in man : that he entred into Iudas his heart , and filled Ananiah his heart with guile : yet , that selfe same entrance , that dwelling , and that filling of the hart , must not be formally , but effectiuely vnderstood . As for example , the Diuel ( in verie deed and in truth ) may truely be said to enter into the verie hart of a man : because , he powerfully suggesteth , and effectually worketh in mans minde , his purposed mischiefes . Againe , the diuell may truely be said to dwell in the hart , because , by the efficacie of his working power , he holdeth mans mind as a captiuated prisoner at his owne will and pleasure . Euen as also , the Lord , he is said likewise to dwell in our harts by faith : not that he essentially inhabiteth there , but , by reason of the effectual working of his mightie power . Lycanthropus . You may expound at your pleasure : but I verily beleeue that the diuell hath essentially in some , a mental possession . Orthodoxus . Are not the diuels , as also mens mindes , intellectuall powers , created of God for other speciall purposes , then that which your selfe doth imagine ? Prooue by the worde that the Lord in creating of them , did euer propound to himselfe such a mentall possession , then you say something vnto it . Philologus . Notwithstanding all this , if the diuell hath in man any reall possession at all : me thinks then , because he is a spirit , he should first really possesse the spirit of man. Orthodoxus . The diuel I confesse is a spirit , & therfore he principally affecteth mans spirit : and yet doth it not follow , that therefore , he substantially entreth into the spirit of man , neither is there anie sence in such sequel . For the diuell himselfe , as also mans spirit were either of them both created of God ; and therefore , not vncreate , but created spirits of God. Neither is the one by nature , more subtile , more slender , or more thinne then the other : neither yet , of more capabilitie , or more apt to containe then the other , whereby it might of that other be made the more capable , as was shewed before . No surely that is a propertie , onely peculiar to the diuine substance it selfe . Neither is any thing else in heauen or in hell , of power to penetrate , or to enter into either an humane , or Angelicall spirit , but , that onely eternall spirit , & almightie creatour of all things of whom it is truly affirmed , that he alone searcheth out , trieth , vnderstandeth , and knoweth the minds of all men . Moreouer , if the diuell doth substantially enter into , and really possesse the minde of a man : then , what difference concerning that point , betweene the holie Ghost and the diuell ? Or howe is the deitie of the holy Ghost himselfe , by such vnspeakeable , or admirable action made apparant vnto vs ? For , euen therefore is the holie Ghost declared to be true God : because he is able repletiuely and by speciall operation , to dwell in mans spirit for euer , according to the testimonie of our Sauiour saying , he dwelleth with you , and shall be in you . By all which it is very apparant , that ( vnles you dare deifie the Diuel , & make him matchable with God himselfe in diuine essence , operation , & knowledge ) you cannot , nor may not affirme , that the diuel doth substantially possesse & inhabite the mindes of men . Philologus . Nay sir , I am I assure you , so sarre of from , either deifying the diuell , or making him in essence , operation , or knowledge anie waies matcheable with God : as I had rather vtterly to denie him all manner of possession , then auouch any thing at all that may import such an inferrence . Lycanthropus . Well yet , I cannot be perswaded , but , that the diuell hath a mentall possession in some respect . Orthodoxus . He hath so indeed . Otherwaies , it were to little or no purpose for him to deale with the bodie : vnlesse he could therewithall accomplish ( in some sort ) the mindes consent . Howbeit , that the diuell doth substantially possesse the minde , can neuer be proued : and the contrary , by me hath been plainly declared . Notwithstanding , I do freely confesse , that the diuell hath an actuall , or powerfull possession concerning mans minde : so far foorth especially , as tendes to the effectuall tormenting and tempting thereof , other possession he hath none at all , as shall be shewed hereafter . Whereas therefore , the diuell is said to enter into , or to possesse the minde of a man ; that is to be vnderstood , onely according to his effectuall working with the bodie it selfe . And , in this selfe same respect , the possessed mans minde may truely be said to be silde with the diuell ; as the drunkards are saide to be filled with wine . For , the verie substance of the wine doth not substantially enter into the verie substance it selfe of the drunken mans minde , because , then there would be a violent rending and separation of substances , as was shewed before : but onely the fuming efficacie or power of the wine , ( binding the vaines and sinnewes , and stopping vp the secret passages of the vitall spirits ) is that which oppresseth the minde it selfe , being peculiarly seated in her proper place . The verie selfe same thing may be said , concerning the diuell his mentall possession . For , the diuell himselfe ( touching his essentiall being ) doth nor essentially enter into the verie essence it selfe of the possessed mans minde , because , then there would be a penetrating of spirituall dimensions , and so , two distinct substances should be ( together and at at once ) in one and the selfe same place , which were absurd to affirme , as was shewed before : but , the diuell ( by his onely effectual power ) tormenting and tempting the sensible parts of man , doth , so mightily disorder the sensitiue faculties , and so malitiously forestall the true notions and passages to a found vnderstanding , as euen the minde it selfe , it cannot but be maruellously distracted , during the whole terme of that his tyrannicall dominion . And this is all in effect , that I yet see or can say concerning the diuel his mental possession . Philologus . This sir , is enough I assure you , and that which doth satisfie me to the full : but what sayth Lycanthropus concerning this point ? Lycanthropus . Howsoeuer you seeme to be satisfied , me thinke yet in all reason , that the diuel should haue essentiallie in some , a mentall possession . Physiologus . Sith you relie so much vpon natural reason , go to Lycanthropus , let me argue this point to the ful ? Lycanthropus . Take leaue , and argue as pleaseth your selfe . Physiologus . You remember ( I hope ) how Maister Orthodoxus hath sufficiently showed before , that angels and diuels are substantiall creatures , and not any phantastical imaginations , as was handled at large in our former discourse concerning that point . Lycanthropus . I remember it well : and doe truelie beleeue the same to be so . Physiologus . Wel then , sith yow hold spirites and diuels for substantiall creatures : do now tel me whether you take them for spiritual , or corporal substances ? Lycanthropus . I know not what substances they are , whether spirituall or corporall : diuels I am certein they be , verie pestilent diuels : yea , such dangerous diuels as vndoubtedly haue a reall possession in man. Physiologus . If you dare credit the Scriptures , I will tell you God willing , what creatures they are . Lycanthropus . I credit the Scriptures : or else it were shame . Physiologus . This then I auouch vnto you for certaine , that Angels and Diuels are Spirits by nature : and Angels by office . That they are not creators , but creatures created by God. Neither did they all issue out of one , as all men by propagation were procreated from Adam : but were all ioyntly togither , and foorthwith created . Neither is one in another ( as in the trinitie , the father is in the sonne , and the holy Ghost in both ) for then they should be of one and the selfe same substance : whereas they are onely of like substance , one to another . Albeit , they were created I confesse , in a most absolute estate of substance , but yet , onely created . For , there is not one of them an infant , a yoong one , or an olde one : neither come they to perfection by little and little , or growe vp by nutriment and exercise : but , do continually retaine that selfe same estate of subsistance which they euer enioyed from their first creation . By this then you see what creatures they are . Lycanthropus . This prooues them essentiall creatures , which was prooued before : howeit , I haue nothing as yet , from the sacred Scriptures , concerning their peculiar substance . Physiologus . Yes , I auouched them to be by nature , essentiall spirits . And this I say further , that Angels and diuels are immortall and spirituall substances . That they are so , it is apparant in sundrie places of scripture . I will saith the diuell , be a lying spirite in the mouth of Achab his prophets , Againe , Christ cast out an vncleane spirit . Againe , the vncleane spirit walketh through drie places . Againe , he taketh to him seuen other spirits . Againe , we wrestle not against flesh and bloud , but against spirituall wickednesses , and so foorth . All these , and sundrie such places doe demonstrate vnto vs the truth of this matter . Now then , I reason thus . The scriptures deliuer vnto vs , not corporall , but spirituall diuels : therefore , diuels are not corporall , but spirituall substances . I folow it thus . Bodies and spirits are opposed the one to the other : therefore they cannot possiblie be one and the same , for , as a bodie is not a spirit : so , neither is a spirit , a bodie , because a spirit hath not flesh and bones as a bodie hath . Lycanthropus . This I hold for an infallible truth . Physiologus . You acknowledge ( you say ) the diuels to be spirituall substances . Well , goe to then , tell me whether you holde them not likewise for finite creatures : and therefore also , circumscriptible and locall ? Lycanthropus . I doe : for none but God alone can be infinite and incircumscriptible . Physiologus . Seeing you doe freely confesse the diuels to be spiritual substances , finite , and locall , before we come to speake of their possession or placing , doe tell me : whether you take not that mans minde , into the which ( as you saie ) he doth really enter , to be for the time of his present possession , the very receptacle or place , that circumscribeth the diuell : and , whether the diuell also himselfe ( concerning his essence ) be not for that time , wholy , and substantiallie comprehended therein ? Lycanthropus . Yes , the verie minde it selfe ( for that present possession ) must needes be the receptacle wherein the diuell is wholie , and substantially conteined . Philologus . Fie , fie Lycanthropus , this is too too absurd . For by this meanes you make the minde of a man to be greater in muchnes , in substance , or essentiall being , then the spirite of the diuell : else , howe should the diuell be possiblie comprehended therein ? sith that which is lesse , can at no hand include or containe the greater . Lycanthropus . Nay , that is no necessarie sequel : because , the diuell for that present , may contract , diminish , or lessen his substantiall being . Physiologus . This your imagined ( may do ) can conclude no certeintie of doing at all . Neither do we dispute what the diuell either may , or is able to doe : but what in deed , and in truth he doth truelie accomplish . Howbeit , to vse fewe words in a long matter , and plaine termes in a doubtfull case , this I auouch for truth ; that the diuell neither can contract , nor possibly may diminish his substantiall being at all . For , as he is a spirituall creature , created for vengeance : so hath he for that selfesame respect , an essence and forme especially proper vnto himselfe alone , yea , and the same so peculiarly appointed vnto him , as he himselfe cannot possibly augment , diminish , or any waies alter the same , but must needs be contented therewith , as with that which the onely wise God hath in wisedome especially ordeined and assigned vnto him : yea , euen as peculiarly , as he hath appointed to euery of vs our proper substances , without any power at all to alter the same . Lycanthropus . Tush , let mans mind be what may be , whether bigger , or lesse in proportion then the spirite of the diuel , I passe not a pinne : this I constantlie hold , that the same is the verie receptacle or place of abode for the diuel , during al the whole time of his real possession . Physiologus . Sith you wil needes haue mans mind the verie habitacle or place for the diuel his real possession : go to then , tel me what kind of place you hold it to be ? Whether do you take it to be a common , or proper place ? Lycanthropus . What meane you by a common place ? Physiologus . That , wherein manie substances are , or may be at one and the selfesame time . Such as is the heauen , the earth , a temple , an house and such like : al which may truelie be saied to be common places , for that , manie substances may ioyntlie be placed in them al at once . As for example . Some thing may truely be said to be conteined within the celestiall firmament , because it is in the fier : in the fier , because it is in the ayre : and in the ayre also , because it is in the earth . For , al and euerie of these , at one and the selfesame time are ioyntlie comprehended with in the firmament , or cope of heauen . Lycanthropus . Then , I doe hold mans mind for no common ; but , the diuel his peculiar place of abode for the present . Physiologus . If you hold mans mind for the diuel his peculiar place , then must his said mind be able , absolutelie and fully to circumscribe the diuel his essential being . For , a place is the circumscription of an essential substance . And , by this you may plainelie perceiue , how ( at vnwares ) you are grosely ouertakē with that palpable absurditie , which Phylologus ( not long since ) enforced vpon you . Namelie , that the mind of man ( it being as you falslie suppose , the peculiar place of the diuel ) must necessarilie ( if so we may speake ) be larger in muchnes and proportion , then the spirite of the diuel . For , howsoeuer , neither spirites nor diuels ( they being no corporal substances stretched out by Dimensions , or by anie massie huge matter ) may truely be said to be in a place commensuratiuelie , or dimensiuelie : notwithstanding al this , both spirites and diuels ( they being finite and circumscriptible substances ) may truelie be said to be in a place definitiuelie , or determinatelie . Spirites therefore and diuels , being ( as your selfe doth suppose ) definitiuelie , ( though not dimensiuelie ) in the possessed mans mind : his said mind ( concerning the essential being thereof ) must determinately and definitiuely exceede in proportion and muchnes , the spirit of the diuell . Howbeit , sith ( in anie case ) you will needes make the possessed mans mind , the peculiar place of the diuel for the present : do tel me I pray you , Whether you accompt his said mind , to be a verie corporal , or onelie an imaginarie place ? Lycanthropus . Euen , a verie corporal place for the present . Physiologus . If you accompt the possessed mans mind , a verie corporal place of the diuel : the diuel then him selfe , he must needes be a moueable bodie : because , a corporal place is that wherein a moueable bodie both moueth , and ceaseth to moue . Howbeit , the diuel ( you haue heard ) he is onelie a spiritual essence , and no moueable body : and therfore , it is very absurde you should affirme the possessed mans mind to be a corporal place for the diuel . And , that ( which is much more absurd ) the possessed mans mind it selfe ( it being properlie in perpetual motion ) should ( by this meanes ) be made also an immoueable bodie : sith it is one special condition of a corporal place , to be of it selfe immoueable . Because , a corporal place is none other thing els , but the interiour superficies of a bodie , contayning the thing placed therein : and the superficies is onelie an accident in the predicament of quantitie . Howbeit accidents ( we know ) they are not moued of them selues , or by their proper motion : but onlie by accident . I meane , by the motion of some other : namely , by that selfesame subiected moueable bodie , whereunto it is peculiarly and properly inherent . Otherwaies , if a corporall place should ( by any locall motion ) be mooued of it selfe , then , of that selfesame mooueable place , there must needs be another place : because , whatsoeuer is mooued of it selfe , the same is mooued in a place . And so , by consequence , there would be a progresse in endlesnes : which thing euen nature it selfe doth abhorre . By all the premises then , you may plainely perceiue , how grosse and absurd a thing it is , for your selfe to auouch that the possessed mans mind should be for the present , the corporall place of the diuel : and therefore , you are necessarily enforced to make it an imaginarie place , or no place at all . Lycanthropus . What meane you by an imaginarie place ? Physiologus . That selfe same receptacle , wherein any thing is vnderstood to be imaginarily or spiritually , and not dimensiuely or corporally . As for example : Angels , spirits , diuels , soules seperate from bodies , as also immateriall accidents : all these we imagine to be in a place , whereas yet , they occupie no corporall place , neither doe they supplie or fulfill any place at all . Lycanthropus . An imaginarie place then , I perceiue by your speech , is ( in deed and in truth ) no place at all . Nay sir , I may at no hande auouch the possessed mans minde to be but an imaginarie place of the diuell : for , so should I vtterly ouerthrow his reall , and substantiall being in man. Physiologus . And yet , euen such a place you must assigne him you see , concerning his reall possession in man , or no place at all . For , besides those corporall places which we handled euen now , there is ordinarilie and naturally no place to be found . Lycanthropus . Why then do the scriptures auouch in plaine termes , that , the diuell entreth and dwelleth in man : if he haue in man , no substantiall or reall possession ? Physiologus . The meaning of those termes woulde be easily vnderstood , if you were once throughly acquainted with that ordinarie doctrine which respecteth those three maner of waies whereby any thing is saide to be in a place . Lycanthropus . What manner of waies are those ? Physiologus . First , the manner of corporall substances , is to be in a place circumscriptiuely , commensuratiuely , dimensiuely , or locally : that is , euen so , and in such sort , as the interiour superficies , or parts of the place containing , doe yeeld place to the magnitude , or exteriour parts of the thing placed therein . Secondly , the manner of spirituall substances , is to be in a place imaginarily , determinately , or definitiuely . For , although spirituall essences are no corporall matters stretched out by dimensions : yet notwithstanding ( being finite and circumscriptible substances ) they may determinately or definitiuely , and by proprietie of substance , be saide to be so in a place , as , for that selfesame instant they cannot possibly be said to be any where else . Because , one finite substance situate in sundrie and diuers places at once : cannot be one and the same . Thirdly , and lastly , the maner of God his being alone , is to be in euerie place indefinitiuely , repletiuely , or replenishingly . Both , because his almightie power is euerie where effectually working : and for that also his diuine essence or substance is at all times , and for euer , in euery place present . Now then , by all the premisses you may plainly perceiue , after what maner of sort the diuel ( if any at al ) hath a possession or place in man. Not circumscriptiuely , commensuratiuely , dimensiuely , not locally : for , that manner of placing appertaineth especially to corporall substances , and the diuell hath onely a spirituall essence . Neither yet indefinitiuely , repletiuely , or replenishingly : for that , manner of placing doth properly and peculiarly belong vnto God , who is onely of an infinite and incomprehensible being , whereas the diuell is a finite and circumscriptible creature . And therefore the diuell himselfe ( consisting of a circumscriptible and finite substance ) must needes be but determinately or definitiuely in one only place at once : and so , by consequence must haue onely an imaginarie possession , or place in man , and not any substantiall possession in him at all . Physiologus . Lycanthropus ? so farre as I can perceiue , this our conceited opinion concerning the supposed mentall possession of diuels , will fall flat to the ground . Lycanthropus . I feare me euen so . Howbeit , good master Orthodoxus , let me aske you this question . If it be true indeed , that diuels do not essentially enter into the possessed mens mindes : howe then shoulde they possibly hurt them ? Orthodoxus . I will answere this question , by asking you another thus . If it be certeinly true , that good Angels doe not essentially enter into godly mens mindes ; how then should they possiblie helpe them ? Lycanthropus . I know not what to answere I assure you . Orthodoxus . I thinke euen so : and yet the reason of both , is one , and the same . For howsoeuer the good and euill Angels , doe propound to themselues quite contrarie ends in all their operations : yet , their manner of working is alwaies alike . Namely , whether they helpe vs , or hurt vs , they doe euermore worke after an inuisible , insensible , and spirituall manner . Now then , that good Angels doe vndoubtedly helpe men , it is apparantly euident : For they are all ministring spirits : sent foorth for their sakes who shall bee heires of saluation . That Abraham , Isaak , Iaacob , Israel , the virgin Marie , and many others were sundrie waies succoured by Angels , the scriptures record : but , that the Angels entred substantially into the mindes of any one whom they helped , is no where to be found . Neither is it to be doubted at all , but that the Lord God as largely imploieth the ministerie of good Angels in comforting the godly , by the manifestation of his mercies : as he vseth the ministerie of euill Angels in afflicting the vngodly , by the declaration of his iustice . And yet can it not be found throughout all the whole Bible , that the Lord euer helped any one of the godly , by the ministerie of his good Angels essentially entring into their mindes : and therefore it were meere madnes to imagine that he should afflict anie the vngodlie , by the ministerie of euill Angels , really and substantially inherent in their mindes . Verie true it is , that the almightie creatour of spirits , he being onely of power to penetrate the spirits of men and of Angels , can , and doth himselfe , inwardly comfort the godlie , euen in that selfesame eternall loue wherewith he created them all , and in whom alone they do liue , mooue , and haue also their being : but that therefore , any his Angels should be also inuested with such an absolute internall power of helping or hurting , through an essentiall entring into the verie harts and mindes of his people , that may iustly be doubted , the same being no where reuealed vnto vs throughout the scriptures . Lycanthropus . Yes , Augustine verie flatlie affirmeth that the good Angels of God ( so oft as they are willing to help and to comfort the godlie ) they do essentiallie mingle then selues with their minds . And , this also he proueth from Zacharie , saying , the Angel that spake in me . Which argueth plainelie , that , the good Angel was reallie in Zacharie : els , how should he speake in him at al ? Orthodoxus . Augustine he affirmeth no such thing for certeine : but onelie supposeth it so . Whereupon it is euident , that , this your affirmation , being builded vpon bare supposals , supposeth no certeintie in that which you say . And as for the place of zacharie , your Augustine I assure you , he doth ouer curiouslie vnfold the perspicious manner of speaking among the Hebrews them selues : who eftsoones for , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say in me , do translate it mecum , or ad me : that is , with me , or to me . And therefore , for the Angel that spake in me , they read it thus , the Angel that spake with me , or to me . Howbeit , ignorance in the Hehrewe toong , hath caused manie of the old fathers verie fowlie to erre , and to decline from the true sence of the scriptures . Lycanthropus . If it be in the original , thus , the Angel that spake in me : Why translate you it thus , the Angel that spake with me , or to me ? Orthodoxus . Because , as wel the elegancy , as the propriety of the language it selfe must be dulie respected . Although yet , such a prouident respect must be vsed in both , as the true sense and purpose of the place ( according to the proportion of faith ) be warelie and wiselie obserued . Otherwise , if you so stricktlie relie on the letter , how then vnderstand you the Apostle Paul , speaking thus ? you seeke experience of Christ , that speaketh in mee . Dare you auouch that Christ spake euer essentiallie in the person of Paul ? Or , spake he not rather ministeriallie in him ? And therefore , whereas the Apostle saith , you seeke experience of Christ who speaketh in me : that must be expounded thus , of Christ , who speaketh by me , or thorough me . So then , by this you may plainelie perceiue , that , Augustine ( from that place of Zacharie , ) hath litle or no helpe to support your idle supposal . And , to the end you may the better consider how authentically he auoucheth that vncertaine conceit : it shall not be amisse to answere Augustine , by Augustine himselfe , both in the very same booke and else where besides . Wherein he flatly affirmeth , that , the angels do outwardly helpe vs by certaine visible apparitions or sights which they propose & offer before our eies . Those selfesame apparitions hauing not onely an apt resemblance of naturall bodies : but which also are subiected vnder their Angelicall auctoritie and power . Thus the , Augustine ( you see ) is so variable in himselfe concerning this point : as , no certaintie can be concluded of that which he speakes . Lycanthropus . By this one shift you may easily shift ouer what truth soeuer the holy fathers affirme . Ort●odoxus . I neuer yet sought to shake of any truth by shifts . Neither doe I preiudice Augustine , or any of the fathers , by viewing , and reiecting their variable opinions : for so Augustine ( in his latter Retractions ) oft times reiecteth himselfe . And , howsoeuer Augustine , or your selfe doe dreame in this point , very certaine I am ( as was shewed before ) that the good Angels of God ( in their orderly execution of any peculiar office appointed by God ) were neuer essentially mingled with the minds of the godly . No verely , but , in all their ambassages they doe , either manifest themselues by seeing and hearing , or , assist vs eftsoones by some other sensible meanes : howbeit , they at no hand do helpe vs by any reall commixture of their proper substances together with ours . No , that God of order , who ordereth all things in number , in waight , and in measure , hauing decreed no such course at all : would at no hand permit such confusion of substances , nor endure such shamefull disorder among anie his creatures in heauen , or in earth . Lycanthropus . Tell me then , by what meanes they do hurt men ? Orthodoxus . Not by any essentiall possession , or reall commixture of themselues with mens mindes : but , by that selfesame effectuall power , which euen now worketh mightily in the disobedient children . By the efficacie also of which working power , they become lying spirites in the mouthes of false prophets : they worke lying woonders , in all deceiueablenes of vnrighteousnes : they buffet mens mindes with fearefull tentations : they endeuour to sifte , and to winnowe mens soules as men winnow wheate : they circumuent them with wiles : they make men vncleane : they possesse them by deafenes , they strike them with blindenes : they subdue them through dumbnes : they ouercome them by lamenesse : yea , and euen binde them as it were with diseases , a long time togither . Brieflie , the diuel hauing power ouer death , by the efficacie of that power , he doth vexe and torment men within , and without ; compassing ouer the earth ; & running like a ramping & roaring lyon , continually about to deuoure . Lycanthropus . Yea , but how should they possiblie either hurt or deuoure ; hauing in men no reall possession ? Orthodoxus . You do ouer-grosly conceiue of the matter ; and with as good reason might aske me , howe an enimie should possiblie hurt the captaine which keepeth an hold : he hauing in the saide captaine , no reall possession ? Howbeit , this ( me thinke ) you might know by experience , that , notwithstanding the want of reall possession , the enimie may many waies hurt the said captaine : as , by giuing him bribes to betray the hold : by assaulting , by battring , by undermyning , by pyning , by wounding , yea , and by slaying some of his souldiers before his face . All these , and many moe annoiances , the enimie may offer the captaine , though not essentially inherent in the captaine himselfe : yea , and by the dispatching of these , he cannot choose but vexe and torment the captaine himselfe , euen as if he had really and substantially possessed his person . After the selfe-same maner dealeth Satan , with such as he is said to possesse , For , albeit he doth not substantially enter into the possessed mans minde , which is as it were a grand-captaine ouer the bodie : yet for all this , the diuell , that sworne aduersarie of man , by deuising , procuring , applying , and by ministring many strange sicknesses , diseases , and deathes to the bodie , he doth no lesse violently vexe and torment the minde it selfe , then if he were essentially entred therein . Yea , and all these the forenamed annoiances he effecteth at his owne will and pleasure . Partly , for that he is of long experience in mischief ; hauing bin a practitioner therein , from the beginning of the world . Partly thorough a more easie maner of knowing things , he being very sharpe sighted , & throughly acute : not needing those meanes which earthlie men neede , to vnderstand , and to find forth the natures , effects , and causes of things . And partlie also , by reason of the excellencie of their proper nature , they being most speedelie caried from place to place : being of infinite power in comparison of vs : and being also of such an exquisite knowledge , as , eftsoones they vndertake ( by obseruing euents , and by conferring of causes ) to coniecture the timelie successe of manie their mischeiuous enterprises . By al the premisses then , it is verie apparant , that the diuel , he hath such an effectuall power permitted vnto him , as he needes not essentiallie enter mans mind , to accomplish any his diuellish enterprises . Lycanthropus . If diuels enter not essentiallie into the possessed mans mind : how should they possiblie encline , or bow his saied mind to their purpose ? Orthodoxus . Touching the enclining of mindes , if we speake herein according to truth , God alone is properlie said to worke in the minds of men , and to encline their wils which waies he please : although yet , spirites and diuels , they may also be considered as helpers herein , howbeit such helpers no doubt , as doe rather moue by external reasons , then encline at al by internal actions . And euen so , the lying spirite , in the mouth of Ahab his prophets : was after a sort , an helper to God. Concerning therefore the enclining of minds , we must here distinguish betweene the interiour efficient , who onlie is God : and the exteriour agent , namelie , spirites and diuels . Againe , the meanes whereby the exteriour agent doth worke , is twofold . The first is the external obiect of the mind , it being apprehended of the vnderstanding for good , and effectuallie offered also vnto the wil. For , euerie facultie of the mind , is especiallie moued by his proper obiect : not only offered , but apprehended also effectually . The other external meanes enclining the mind , is seated in those affections and passions that are placed in the sensitiue appetite , namely , lust , anger , loue , and such like , by which also , the wil ( after a sort ) is inclined to something . Now then , spirites and diuels they are able by external obiects , to stirre vp affections and passions in the sensitiue appetite . Howbeit , not simplie and absolutelie as God , who is said to haue the hearts of kings in his hand , and who also is able alone , to encline mans wil effectuallie , to whatsoeuer he please : but , after a sort , and so far forth also , as they by external reasons are able ( like councellours ) to perswade the wil vnto something . For , they cannot possiblie compel the wil , the same ( by nature ) reiecting al maner of compulsion : although yet , ( by perswading and alluring ) they may ( after a sort ) be saied to encline and to moue the mind . Now then this their enclining , you see it consists not in anie essentiall possession , but onely in an effectuall operation , whereof we wil discourse to the ful , when we come to entreate of actual possession . In the meane time , do now cease for shame to auouch any longer the mental possession of diuels . Lycanthropus . Wel sir , howsoeuer you denie the mental possession of diuels : I doubt not but they may haue a corporall possession in men ? Orthodoxus . This point will require a large discourse . And therefore let vs here giue ouer a time till after our supper : and then ( if you please ) we will conferre thereof for an hower or two . Physiologus . Your motion is good : and we willingly yeeld . Orthodoxus . Then let vs in Gods name , arise and depart , to my house to a schollers repast . Philologus . The Lord be blessed , for that which he sends . Lycanthropus . We will willingly attend vpon you . The end of the second Dialogue . The third Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . Whether Spirits and Diuels do essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie ? And whether , for that purpose , they haue peculiar to themselues , true naturall bodies ? The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOM'ACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Orthodoxus . HAuing seated our selues in order , I would very willingly know what it is that Lycanthropus requireth-concerning the corporall possession of diuels . Physiologus . Good sir , he is old enough to expresse his owne minde : let him therefore speake for himselfe . Lycanthropus . Yea sir , I am of age I hope , to tell my owne tale : howsoeuer , I meane not to make you my Proctor . Physiologus . If you would , I were like to speake verie sparingly in so badde a cause ; vnlesse you could haply corrupt my conscience with a left-handed bribe . Lycanthropus . Howsoeuer your selfe may haply stand in some neede of a proctorly bribe : my cause , it standes in no neede of bribe-pursing Proctor . Orthodoxus . I like not these girding quippes : for howsoeuer they demonstrate some sharpenesse of witte : they argue much want of a charitable patience : Besides that , they are nothing to the purpose we come for : and therefore good Lycanthropus , goe directly to worke , and tell me what you desire to know , concerning the corporall possession of spirits and diuels . Lycanthropus . My desire is to know , whether spirits and diuels do essentially enter into the bodies of men ? Orthodoxus . For answere hereunto , it shall not be greatly amisse , first , to shew what the corporall possession of diuels is supposed to be : and then next , to declare mine owne opinion concerning that point . Lycanthropus . What I pray you , is the corporall possession ? Orthodoxus . It is that whereby the diuell is supposed of some , euen really and essentially to enter into , and substantially , and inherently to dwell in the possessed mans bodie : during the whole terme of that his tyrannicall dominion ouer the man , whom he , so really , and personally possesseth . Lycanthropus . This supposed possession of diuels , I suppose is vndoubtedly sound : but what is your owne opinion cōcerning this point . Orthodoxus . My opinion is this : namely , that the diuels neuer had anie such reall possession in men : but onely an actuall possession . Lycanthropus . Conclude you then , that the diuels haue in men , no corporall possession at all ? Orthodoxus . If by corporall possession , you doe meane , that the diuels essentially enter into , and inherently dwel in the possessed mans bodie : I see then , no reason at all , but , that I may boldly conclude it . Neither do I perceiue , how your selfe should euer be able to contradict the infallible truth thereof . For verie certeine I am , that no such essentiall possession ; is any where extant in all the Bible . Lycanthropus . Oh , yes sir , in euery place of the Bible almost , especially there , where those matters are handled : it is said , the diuels entred into them : that they enter in , and dwell there : that Christ charged the diuell to come out of the childe , and to enter no more into him and so foorth . All which places doe plainly demonstrate , that the diuels haue really , a corporall possession in men at the least . Orthodoxus . I see no such matter , demonstrated frō any of those places . Lycanthropus . No doe ? What I pray you can be more plaine then this ? come out , and enter no more into him . Is there not a most plaine opposition betweene entring into : and going out from ? And , are not the words in the originall : and enter no more into him ? What can be more plaine I beseech you ? Orthodoxus . That there is an apparant opposition betweene entring into , and going out from , I freely confesse , the words also in the originall I plainely approoue : although yet , I graunt from thence no reall possession . Else , how vnderstand you this place in the Apocalypse : where the Lord saith , and I will enter in vnto him . What now ? because the holy Ghost there vseth the verie selfesame word of entring into : must we therefore thus grossely imagine , that the Lord God , he also essentially entreth into the harts of so many as open vnto him by faith and repentance ? that were too too absurde . Also , where it is said , that , after Iudas receiued the soppe , then Satan entred into him . Albeit , the verie selfesame word of entring into , be vsed here also , yet may we at no hand conclude , that therefore , the diuell had in him an essential possession : no , for the holy Ghost else where doth otherwaies expound himselfe , saying , that the diuel had now darted , or thrust into Iudas his hart to betray his maister . Making the entring of the diuell into Iudas his hart , to be nothing else but a suggesting , or thrusting of the entended treason into him , as was shewed before . Whereupon , it is verie apparant you see , that , this going out , and this entring in of the diuel , may not so grossely be vnderstood of any real or substantiall possession : but onely of an effectual , and powerful operation . Lycanthropus . Nay sir by your patience there is more to be vnderstoode therein ; then onely an effectual operation . For , the Euangelist saith thus : and , entring in , they do dwel there . Now then , dwelling in a place ; you know it doth not onely presuppose an essentiall entrance into that selfesame place : but , concludeth withall , a real possession there , where the partie possessing doth really inhabite . Orthododoxus . Howsoeuer you insist vpon the bare words of entring , and dwelling : yet , no real possession , but onely , an effectual operation must be vnderstood thereby . Otherwaies , what thinke you of this place , where our Sauiour saith . If any man loue me , he wil keepe my word , and my father wil loue him : and we wil come vnto him , and dwel with him . Now then , to vse your owne reason , dwelling in a place you know , it doth not onely presuppose an essential entrance into that selfesame place : but concludeth withall , a real possession there , where the partie possessing doth really inhabite . And so , by consequence , if we strictly tye our selues vnto words : then , the father , and the sonne both do really and essentially inhabite in the harts of so many as obserue the word , which , how absurd it is to auouch , your selfe may consider . Besides that , if you so strictly doe tye your selfe to the obseruation of words : how vnderstand you this scripture ? The good Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul : and , an euil Spirit of the Lord came vpon him . Would you haue vs to imagine fromhence : that king Saul himselfe was really possest with an euill spirit , or a diuel ? Lycanthropus . Yea , what other thing else ? Orthodoxus . Then may we by the same reason conclude , that Saul also before that time , was really possest with the good spirit of God. For , when Samuel annointed him king it was said in like sort , that the spirit of the Lord should come vpon him : Againe , that the spirit of the Lord it came vpon Saul . Yea , then may we likewise conclude that Dauid also himselfe , he was really possest with the good spirit of God : for it is said , that after Dauid was annointed , the spirit of the Lord came vpon him . Now then , tell me I pray you , whether you thinke that Saul and Dauid were really possest with the good spirit of God : and that the spirit did essentially enter into them ? Lycanthropus . I vnderstand it euen so , I assure you . Orthodoxus . Why man ( besides the absurditie arising thence ) the verie letter it selfe importeth a quite contrarie sence to that which you seeme to insert . For , the wordes of the text are not thus , the spirit of the Lord entred into them : but , the spirit of the Lord came vpon them both . Howbeit , whether it had beene , the spirit of the Lord entred into them , or came vpon them , it is al one in effect : and may in no wise , be vnderstood of anie essential possession , but of an effectual operation of that spirit of God , whether good or euil . For , in euerie of those places , the word , in the original , is tsalac . Which Ierome translates , leaped vpon them : Lyra , he hath , entred forciblie vpon them : Pagnine , he hath , rested vpon them : Tremellius , he hath , rushing vpon them : Montanus , he hath , prospered vpon them . None of al these , howsoeuer they differ in termes : they dreame not you see , of anie real possession at al. Yea , and the word tsalac also it selfe ( if we respect the natiue signification ) is properlie to be translated thus . The spirit of the Lord preuailed , had prosperous successe , did happelie proceede , or prospered greatlie in Saul , and in Dauid : al which , hath relation to the efficacie , and not to the essence of the spirit at all . Otherwise , if notwithstanding al this , your selfe wil needes vnderstand in that place an essential entrance , or real possession : the grosse absurditie thereof may more plainlie appeare , by the conference of this one , with some other places of scripture , where the selfesame word is also in vse . As first , where Eleazar saith vnto Laban , hinder you me not : sith the Lord bath prospered my iourney . Would you expound it thus , hinder me not : sith the Lord hath caused my iorney , verie really , and essentially to enter into me ? Againe , where it is said , that whatsoeuer the godlie man doth it shall prosper . Should we translate it thus : the godly mens waies shal substantiallie enter into him . Againe , where the holie ghost saith vnto Salomon , prosper thou with thy glorie . Should we expound it thus : let thy glorie substantiallie and reallie possesse thy person . Briefly , where Ieremie complaineth thus , why doe the waies of the wicked prosper : must we imagine , that the waies of the wicked doe enter essentiallie into their bodies and soules ? that were to to absurd . And yet , in such a strict tying of our selues to the word we may ( by as good reason ) enterprete these places thus , as those other of Saul and of Dauid : the holie ghost vsing especially in euery of them al , but one and the selfesame word . Exorcistes . If the scriptures be so intricate concerning these pointes : what waies were we best to take for the vnderstanding of them aright ? Orthodoxus . You must not be haled hedlong an end with an inueterate opinion , receiued hand ouer head , from hand to hand , without further search or due trial of the trueth of the matter : but , must verie hartelie pray , and most conscionablie depend vpon the holie spirit of God , for a true vnderstanding and wisedome herein . For , seeing the proper nature of spirites and diuels , is not ( in the sacred scriptures ) so exactly & so plainely set downe , as that thereby we may certeinly know them euen as they are in their proper and essential being : we must therefore , most humbly endeuour our selues , very faithfully to imbrace , and constantlie to beleeue the true sence of the scriptures concerning these points : yea , euen in such simple sort as the holy spirit of God , who is the Lord of all spirites , hath set downe the same . Alwaies remembring this ; that spirites and diuels , they are in the scriptures euermore spoken of , as of spiritual substances : howsoeuer , for the onelie helpe of our slender capacities , they be sometimes more groslie expressed by parables and metaphors , and , in a more sensible or corporal manner then otherwaies they are in themselues . And therefore , whereas it is said , that the spirit of the Lord came vpon Balaam , Othoniel , Gedeon , Iphthah , Sampson , Saul , Dauid , Azariah , Ezechiel and others . Moreouer , where it is said , that the Lord seperated the spirite of Moses , and put in vpon the seuentie Elders : againe , that the spirit of Eliah was double vpon Elisha : that Caleb had a spirit farre differing from the rest of the Israelites : and that Daniel , he had a more excellent spirite then al the rest : yet , that selfesame entrance into , that resting vpon , that multiplying , that doubling , and that excellencie of the spirit is not to be vnderstood of any real , or essential possession ; but of an effectual and powerful operation of that selfesame spirit , concerning the speciall worke for which it was sent . So as , although the spirites of the Lord ( whether good or euil ) are said to be giuen by proportion and nomber : yet , not the substance or quantitie , but the condicion or qualitie of the spirit it selfe must be alwaies presupposed and ment thereby , which is a point that I would haue you especially to consider throughout our whole conference concerning spirites and diuels . Lycanthropus . This I confesse is a verie good caution concerning the condition , qualitie , and operation of spirits . Howbeit for any thing hetherto heard , I can at no hand be perswaded ; but that the diuell ( albeit mans minde be free ) doth really and essentiallie enter into the possessed mans bodie . Physiologus . Goe to , imagine that this your supposall were euerie waie sound ; and then do tell me withall , what the diuell doth in the possessed mans bodie . Lycanthropus . What doth he there ? verie vntowardly I warrant you : for , euen in that selfesame bodie , and by the helpe of that body he doth effectually accomplish and execute those his preposterous actions , Physiologus . Preposterous actions indeed : for the diuell to appropriate to himselfe , the peculiar organon of the possessed mans soule . Do you imagine , the Lord euer propounded any such end to himselfe in the creation of bodies ? Or do you suppose the Lord euer granted so large a commission : or , that the diuell himselfe euer receiued such an absolute power concerning the bodies of men ? But , go to , what becomes of the soule or spirit , all the while the diuell himselfe is really inherent in the possessed mans bodie ? Remaines the soule still in that bodie as in her proper habitation appointed of God , till the day of her vtter dissolution by death ? Or , is it for the whole time of the diuell his being in that bodie , vtterly exiled & thrust out from the same ? Lycanthropus . Naie , the soule is not euen then , secluded or shut out from the bodie at al , but continueth and lieth therein like a subdued prisoner , fast bound hand and foote : yeelding ouer to the diuel ( for that present ) his whole interest concerning the bodie , and endureth perforce his inexorable , and tyrannous crueltie . Physiologus . But , tell me I pray you , is not the soule or the minde of a man an incorporall substance , or a spirit equally diffused and spred throughout the whole bodie , and euerie part thereof according to powers and proportion not Arithmeticall , but Geometricall : so as all the members of the bodie it selfe doth effectually fulfill their peculiar offices accordingly . They being the proper instruments of that selfesame minde or spirituall substance , furdering freely the organicall operation thereof , and excecuting readily whatsoeuer the minde shall giue them in charge ? And that therefore , this selfesame bodie , being thus vtterly depriued ( as you say ) for the present , of the soules organicall operation , is in effect , but dead to the soule : because wheresoeuer is an vtter priuation of the soules operations , concerning the bodie , there , the life of that man is for the present dissolued . Hold you all this for a truth ? Lycanthropus . Yea , I may not denie any part thereof . Physiologus . Seeing then you doe flatly conclude , that the minde or spirit of man is the first substantiall forme or action in a liuing bodie , and the originall or primarie cause of all effects whatsoeuer performed duly therein , as being that onlie whereby we doe liue , perceiue , desire , are moued in place , and doe also vnderstand : how is it possible , that the soule or mind of a man , being naturally in perpetuall motion , should at any time lie idle in her bodie , it being the proper Organon of the soule , peculiarly appointed vnto it by God , yea , euen vnto the very dissolution thereof ? Or , how should the said soule or minde lie bound like a prisoner , in her proper bodie : and not execute effectually those selfesame operations and powers , which are peculiarly appropriated vnto it for the special seruice of that selfesame bodie ? Lycanthropus . What meane you by the proper operations of the soule or minde ? Physiologus . I vnderstand thereby , all those peculiar actions which doe necessarily succeede the powers of the minde , as proper effects peculiarly appertaining vnto it . Otherwaies , this peculiar power of the minde ( it being a meane betweene the substance and operations of the minde , are the only efficient cause of the said mindes operations ) should be vtterly in vaine , and to no purpose at all ; vnles the peculiar effects of that selfesame power , did vndoubtedly , and immediatly succeede the same . Howbeit , these selfesame effects cannot possibly succeed the saide power of the minde : so long at the least , as the Diuel himselfe ( really possessing the bodie ) doth wholy and absolutely take vp the said bodie with the members thereof , to accomplish his mischieuous purposes . As for example , all the operations of the minde , are either organical , or animal . The organical operations , they are those seuerall actions which the minde can in no wise accomplish but in the bodie it selfe , and by all the seuerall members thereof , as by the proper instruments , for that purpose peculiarly appointed vnto it . Namely , the nutritiue , augmentatiue , and generatiue operations , appertaining especially to the vegetatiue life : also the facultie of seeing , hearing , tasting , smelling , handling , and of common sense : moreouer , the imaginatiue , the memoratiue , the concupiscible , irascible , and motiue faculties , being all attendant vpon the sensitiue life . Now then , these , and euerie of these are the organical operations of the minde , yea and such also as the minde cannot possibly effect but in her owne bodie , and by all the partes thereof , as by the peculiar instruments appointed of God. And therefore , how should the possessed mans minde , ( his bodie it selfe being thoroughly surprised and taken vp ( as you say ) ▪ by the Diuel ) at any hand accomplish either all , or any one of these organical operations ? Lycanthropus . As the minde her selfe cannot but be in perpetuall motion : so surely ( being forcibly restrained from these her organical operations ) she must ( for the present ) be faine , to put in execution , and to practise as she may , her animal operations . Physiologus . The animal operations , they are such speciall actions , as the minde of it selfe both can , and may effectually accomplish without the bodie : namely , those three essential powers of the reasonable soule , called the vnderstanding , affection , and will. Whereof , the two last are fitly termed the intellectiue appetite : whereas the organical affections ( arising only from out of the hart , the lyuer , and entralles ) are called the sensitiue appetite . But , for as much as these animal operations , all the while the minde it selfe is seated in her proper bodie ( are ) by the order of God ( appointed to be the directours ) and moderatours of all the organical operations : I aske you , by what meanes the mind may accomplish her appointed dutie concerning the direction and moderation of those her organical actions , so long as the Diuel himselfe doth really and wholy take vp the said bodie , with her seuerall partes , to become the vnhappie instruments of his Diuellish attempts ? Lycanthropus . I see no possible helpe , but that the minde it selfe must giue place to the Diuel for a time . Physiologus . Giue place for a time ; for how long I beseech you ? Put case this man be really possest of the diuell for seuen yeeres togither , or more , and that in the meane time he should die before the diuell be dispossest of his bodie , which ( for any thing knowne to the diuell ) he may very well do : for his daies are determined which he cannot possiblie passe . Now then , the soule it selfe being surprized by death , and so , seperate from the bodie it selfe , before she recouer her pristinate power concerning the saide bodie , or any the organicall actions appertaining vnto it : to whom , must those the disordered actions ( wrought in the bodie all the whole time of the diuell his reall possession therein ) be imputed I pray you ? Whether to the possessed mans minde , or to the diuell himselfe , that possesseth his bodie ? And whether of both must yeeld an account vnto God , for those seuerall actions of the sinfull bodie ? Lycanthropus . The verie soule it selfe is answerable , I take it , for those sinfull actions . Physiologus . But , seeing sinne it selfe , is onely a voluntarie transgression of the law of God : how holdes it with equitie , that the soule should be answerable for those selfesame organicall actions , which she did neuer voluntarily assent vnto , accomplish , affect , or approoue ? Lycanthropus . Because the animall operations of the soule , they being appointed by God to direct and to moderate the organicall operations of the bodie : did faile in doing that dutie . Physiologus . How should shee possiblie accomplish that her appointed dutie concerning the direction and moderation of those organicall operations : shee being before verie violently and absolutely dispossessed of the bodie it selfe , by whom those organicall actions should haue beene wrought according to her proper , and onely directions ? Besides that , the peculiar actions of the vnderstanding , affection , and will are meere animall , respecting either the minde it selfe : or the minde and bodie togither . Touching the minde it selfe , her animall operations are onely to vnderstand , to affect , and to will. These animall operations , they are such as the minde her-selfe both may , and doth effectually accomplish without the bodie , and being quite seperate from it . And also , she hath her animall motions , whereby she is locally mooued without the bodie : and being quite seperate from it . For , so the soule of Lazarus ( his bodie being dead fower daies in the graue ) did locally mooue , and returne , yea , by such a non organicall or animall motion , the verie soules of the saued , & damned : are ( at this present ) continually moued . The animal operations respecting the minde and bodie togither , they are the dutifull applying of the vnderstanding , affection , and will to an orderly direction , and circumspect moderation of al the organical actions . To the timely discharge of which duty , the minde especially is bound ; so long as she is naturally inherent , or peculiarly predominant ouer the bodie . Else , she is freely exempt from all charge of the bodie : and hath then her animall operations wherein her office doth wholie and onely consist . And , euen as in the minde , so also in the body there be some such meere corporall actions and motions : as the bodie it selfe both may , and doth also accomplish without any direction or moderation of the minde . As for example . The dead carkasse of a man being quite seperate from the soule , it hath notwithstanding her corporall dimensions , figure , situation , and habite : yea , and is locally mooued , either downewards by a natural motion , or else vpwards , or ouerthwart by a violent motion . Yea , and all these corporall operations and motions the bodie hath , and may also accomplish by herselfe alone , without any her soules direction , moderation , or guidance : they being especially such actions and motions , as appertaine not to the minde at all . Now then , as the soule hath some such animall operations peculiarlie appropriate to it , as it may well , and doth effectually accomplish without the bodie , being freely seperate from it , and therefore , no reason the bodie it selfe should any waies be answerable for those peculiar actions of the minde , whereunto she was no waies assistant : so surely , the bodie it hath , and may haue some such corporall actions and motions peculiarly appropriated , or violently enforced vpon it , as it may , and doth also effect without any the direction , moderation , or consent of the soule , it being quite seperate from it , or from any the directions thereof at the least , and therefore , it is absurd to imagine that the soule should be brought to account for any those peculiar actions or motions of the bodie which it neuer directed the bodie vnto , nor neuer gaue consent to the same in any respect . Lycanthropus . I know not which waies to answere your speech : howbeit , very certaine I am the diuell hath really in man a corporall possession at least . Physiologus . How do you know it for certein , sith the diuel is onelie a spirit , of a spiritual substance , simplie and absolutelie without all mixture of corporall matter : and therefore , he needeth no such real possession in anie mans bodie . Lycanthropus . He needeth no such real possession in any mans bodie I confesse , in regard of his owne essential beeing : Howbeit , respecting more especiallie , the timely execution of his tyrannicall tormenting of bodies , there is necessarilie required in the parties possessed , an essential possession at least . Physiologus . Why man , as the Lord God in the verie first creation did constitute spirites and diuels , essentiallie absolute in their owne proper beings , without anie apparant necessitie of such an essential mixture with humane bodies : so surelie , you are neuer able to proue from the word , that the infinite wise God , did euer propound to himselfe in the creation of bodies , anie one purpose at al concerning such essentiall possession of spirites and diuels . Neither are you able to show by the scriptures , that , the diuel did euer receiue so large a commission from God , concerning mens bodies . For , very certeine it is that the diuel did earnestlie entreate , and the Lord ( for many respects ) did purposelie permit as much scope to the diuel , concerning Iobs bodie , as anie mans bodie besides , either before him , or after him : and yet did the diuel neuer begge , nor the Lord neuer graunt anie further power at al concerning the bodie of Iob , then onelie an actual afflicting , but not anie essentiall possessing at al. Besides that , the whole man ( bodie and soule ) was preordained by the secret purpose of God , to be for euer , the liuelie image of his absolute maiestie , respecting especially the perfection and holines thereof , yea , and ( which more is ) to be also a perpetuall habitacle , and glorious temple for his sacred spirit : and therefore it is incredible that the foreseeing wisedome of God , would euer permit any such essentiall possession to spirites and diuels as should not onelie , most beastlie pollute and deface his owne image , but ( which more is ) euen reallie ( as it were ) transforme the habitation of his holie spirit , into a filthie cage of vncleane spirites , a most stinking stie for satan him selfe , and a most horrible dungeon for damned diuels . Lycanthropus . Why sir ? this metamorphosis or change , was primarilie effected in the persons of Adam , and Euah , who being both created according to the image of God concerning body and soule , did , not onelie quite loose the said image of God : but ( which more is ) did presentlie put vpon them , the verie image of the diuel , who is called the strong armed man ; and they are now become that dwelling house of his , which he possesseth and keepeth in peace . Physiologus . The image of God , it was not lost in Adam and Euah as touching the essence ; but concerning onelie the perfection , the sanctitie , and holines thereof . Neither did they essentiallie , but onlie actuallie put vpon themselues the image of satan . Neither did that strong armed man the diuel at any time , essentially , but onely effectively possesse or keepe them in peaceable possession , as an house for himselfe . And therefore , either you must necessarily acknowledge the diuel to haue an essentiall possession not onelie in some few , but , euen in Adam himselfe , and al his posteritie : or els , you must grant , that , that possession which the diuel hath in anie , it is onlie an actual possession . Howsoeuer the latter be true , the first you may neuer acknowledge for shame . Because , if the Lord created the members of our bodies for these two onelie respects , namelie , that they should be for euer , the liuelie organons of our owne proper soules , and the expresse images of him their Lord & creator : it is vnlikely , that satan should euer haue power ( through the permission of God ) to frustrate those former effects , by assuming our bodies essentiallie vnto himselfe , and by applying them so forcibly to his slauish seruice in an vnuoluntarie action , whether they will themselues , or not . Lycanthropus . Why may not the Diuel for a time , essentially vsurpe the possessed mans bodie , to accomplish therin his Diuelish actions ? Physiologus . The question is not , what the Diuel may doe , but whether he doth so essentially vsurpe vpon the possessed mans bodie ; as your selfe doth absurdly imagine . For , if an humane soule , be only made capable of an humane bodie : then also , an humane bodie , it is only made capable of an humane soule . But , the first ( in all reason ) is vndoubtedly true : and therefore also the latter , and so ( by consequence ) there can be no essential possession of spirits and Diuels . Lycanthropus . Why sir , the scripture saith , that the strong armed man possesseth his house in peace . Physiologus . That must only be vnderstood of an actual , and of no essential possession at all . I prooue it thus . Satan so possesseth , as Christ inuadeth his house : But , Christ inuadeth only effectiuely , and not essentially : therefore , Satan , he possesseth only effectiuely , and not essentially . Besides that , if Satan essentially and inherently dwelleth in the possessed mans bodie : what then ( for the present ) becomes of the soule ? and , who must become accomptable to God , for those corporall actions which are wrought in the possessed mans bodie , as was shewed you before , the man , or the Diuel ? If the man , how can it stand with the iustice of God to punish those things in a man , whereunto he was violently enforced and drawen against his owne will ? If the Diuel : then should something be effected in the possessed mans bodie which nothing concerneth himselfe . Briefly , you cannot possibly propound to your selfe , any one necessarie vse or end for such an essentiall entring of Diuels into the bodies of men . Lycanthropus . Oh yes sir , it is needfull for this special end ; namely , that they might thereby , the more fitly afflict and torment such persons as the Lord in iudgement , hath committed vnto them . Physiologus . All this , may as fitly , as fully , and as effectually be effected by an only actual possession , as shall be shewed hereafter : in the meane time you shall neuer be able to prooue your imagined real possession of Diuels while you haue any breath . For , if Spirites and Diuels , be ( in deed and in truth ) in the possessed mans bodie , then are they so , either as the part in the whole : or as the whole in the part : or as the special in the general ; or as the general , in the special : or as the accident in the subiect : and forme in the matter : or , as the efficient , in the effect : or , as the intention in the end : or as the thing placed , in the place at the least . But , he is not in the possessed mans bodie , according to any of these respects : therefore , not essentially or personally in the possessed mans bodie at all . Lycanthropus . Though not according to any the former respects : yet are they in the possessed mans bodie ( as we say ) autoprosopos ; I meane , euen personally : not putting any other qualitie in the bodie which it had not before , but only mouing and stirring the said bodie ( with the seueral partes ) to such extraordinarie operations , as ( by the prouident disposing of God ) are permitted them to accomplish thereby . Physiologus . He is in the possessed mans bodie you say , only as a mouer , and stirrer vp of the same to some extraordinarie operations : this is too too absurd . For then he must be in that bodie either as one hypostatically ioined with that man in his essence , which hypostatical vnion is only proper to Christ : or els , formaliter ( as the Schoolemen doe call it ) to giue an essential forme to those the entended operations : and so , there should be in the selfe-same subiect , two essential formes at once , which is too too absurd . For Diuels being incorporal spirites , are also inuisible , impalpable , insensible : yea , such spirituall creatures as cannot possibly be discerned by corporall sence : such a substance I meane , as can neither be seene , nor felt , nor handled , nor possiblie perceiued by corporall or sensible meanes ? And therefore , how should your selfe be able to iudge , or the possessed man certeinlie know when the diuel is really , and substantially inherent within his bodie , as a moouer to such operations , Lycanthropus . The same is verie apparantly perceiued , by the diuell his violent rending and tearing : and such other vnnaturall and preposterous actions . Physiologus . This perceiuance or knowledge is giuen neither to you , nor the possessed himselfe by any meanes of the diuell his essentiall being within him ; but by reason of his effectuall working in the possessed mans bodie . By which said effectual working , that selfesame rending and tearing , with other like vnnaturall and preposterous actions may effectually be wrought in the man : though the diuell doth neuer essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie , or any part thereof . Euen as also , the efficacie and heate of the sunne may effectually be perceiued and felt both outwardly and inwardly : and yet , the verie substance of the sunne it selfe neuer essentially inherent in anie mans bodie . And thus , at vnawares you do fully ouerthrowe you idle supposall of an essentiall and reall possession : concluding withall , that the diuell hath onely an actuall or powerfull possession , whereof also hereafter we will conferre to the full . Lycanthropus . Staie heere a while I beseech you : me thinke you are somwhat ouerswift in gathering vpon me . For , albeit I do freely confesse that spirits and diuels are spirituall substances , and therefore , not sensiblie perceiued or felt of vs by any corporall or sensible meanes : yet doe I not hold them for such absolute and simple substances , but that they haue also their proper bodies peculiarlie appropriate to them , though of another nature , and farre different also from ours . And therefore , the diuels entring into the possessed mans bodie with those their owne bodies : they may ( by meanes of their said bodies ) so violently worke in the possessed maus bodie , as that , their essentiall being therein , may easily be discerned of others , and verie sensiblie also perceiued of the possessed himselfe . Physiologus . A man had need to be swift in gathering : when he lighteth vpon one so lauish in laying abroad . For besides your conclusion heere , against your owne cause , you do flatly discent a fresh from that we concluded before in our first conference concerning the essence of spirits and diuels . Where I telling you that the Scriptures deliuer vnto vs not corporall , but spirituall diuels : that spirits and bodies are opposed the one to the other , and therefore cannot possibly be one and the same : thereupon we concluded , that spirits and diuels are not corporall , but spiritual substances , all which you held then for an infallible truth . Howbeit , being here driuen to a straight , you doe now either ignorantly forget : or purposely peruert the verie truth you affirmed before . For , now you say plainely that diuels haue also their proper bodies : peculiarly appropriated vnto them . What is this else , but to say , and vnsay : and to turne with euerie winde , not vnlike to the wauering Weathercocke ? Lycanthropus . I denied them to be corporall substances , in comparison of our grosse and elementarie bodies : when yet notwithstanding , I doe simply hold , and confidently auouch them to haue also their bodies . Physiologus . Make plaine your meaning ; and tell vs whether you hold them to haue their proper , or assumed bodies ? Lycanthropus . Euen proper and peculiar bodies , created for them . Physiologus . Goe to then , euerie created bodie , is either celestial : or elementarie . Whether of both these thinke you , is proper to Diuels ? Lycanthropus . Surely I thinke they haue celestiall bodies . Physiologus . Verie well . But I pray you consider this also , that the diuels , if they haue corporall bodies : then also , they haue their corporall motions . Now , euerie naturall motion , we doe know is either circuler , or elementarie : The circuler motion for celestial bodies ; the elementarie motion , for elementarie bodies . Whereupon it followeth , that , if diuels ( as you say ) be indued with celestial bodies : then also , those their celestiall bodies , must naturally follow the circuler motion . On the other side , the possessed man ( you know ) he hath an elementarie bodie : and therefore , his said bodie it must and will naturally follow the motion of that element , whereof it doth chiefly consist . Pneumatomachus . What inferre you hereof , I beseech you . Physiologus . Thus much I inferre : namelie , that Lycanthropus his opinion , concerning the real possession of diuels , doth draw after it , manie grosse and palpable absurdities . As for example . If the diuel ( as you your selfe doe confidentlie hold ) hath a celestial bodie , then , how should he really and essentiallie enter into the elementarie body of an earthlie man , or possibly make any personal abode in the possessed mans bellie : sith the diuel , hauing as you say , a celestial bodie naturallie attending and folowing the circuler motion , he cannot be long from that natural motion , but must eftsoones mount aloft to that celestial heauen whereon his supposed bodie consists , to folow his circuler motion , and then , what wil become I beseech you , of the possessed mans bodie ? Againe , if a spirit or diuell , hauing as you hold a celestiall bodie , should essentially enter into the elementarie bodie of a terrestrial man : then surelie , for the whole time of that real possession , there must be both in the diuel , and the man , either no motion at al , which were absurd to imagine , or else , in the one , or in both a supernaturall motion , and so , by consequence , that reall possession should be verie miraculous , which were now in these daies of the Gospell , incredible to heare . For , the diuell , he being ( as you say ) really , essentially , yea , and corporally also in man , that man hauing an elementarie bodie which naturallie attendes the elementarie motion ; and the diuell he hauing a celestiall bodie , which must naturally folow the circuler motion : how can the bodie of man conuerse with the bodie of the diuel , it following naturally the circuler motion , but that selfe-same circuler motion must needes be in the possessed mans bodie a supernaturall motion ? Or , how should the bodie of the diuell be really inherent in the possessed mans bodie , and so folow therein the elementarie motion ; but that selfesame elementarie motion also , must needes be a supernaturall motion in the diuell his bodie ? And so , by consequence : a miracle in the one , or in both . Againe , if the diuels ( what bodies soeuer they haue , whether celestial or elementary ) do ( as appeeres in the word ) mooue euery way , vpward and downward , on the right hand and left , before and behinde vs : If the diuels ( as the Platonists affirme ) can verie easely stretch out their bodies into what bignesse they please , or contract them into what smalenesse they list , and can varie in them ( as their pleasures ) whatsoeuer colour or figure they fansie : briefly , if the diuels ( as Psellus reporteth ) haue such bodies as are euery day tortured with griefes , & tormented with materiall fiers : surely , it were verie absurd , to suppose that a celestiall bodie , is ( in any sort ) fit for any the precedent matters , but farre opposite to them , and therefore much more absurd to imagine that diuels haue celestiall bodies . Philologus . Surely Lycanthropus , if diuels be indued as you say with their peculiar bodies , I would rather imagine them to haue airie , then celestiall bodies : because the Apostle , he cals them airie spirits , and , as Chrysostome saith , the whole aire is replenished throughout with diuels . Physiologus . Howsoeuer Paule or Chrysostome affirme there be diuels in the aire , that doth not conclude , that therefore , the diuels they haue airie bodies : which opinion is much more absurde then the other before . For first , that the diuels should haue airie bodies : it is vtterly impossible . Because the aire is ( as we commonly say ) a bodie of one and the selfesame kinde ; so as , euerie part of ayre , is ayre : neither can any reason be rendred , why this part of the ayre should be more the bodie of a diuell , then another , and so , the whole ayre should be a continued bodie of diuels . Besides that , an organicall bodie consisting iointly of distinct members , must haue bones , synowes , vaines , arteries , flesh , and must also receiue some proportion , shape , or figure : all which are impossible to be made of the ayre . Againe , the ayre is inconstant , and continueth not long in a place : and therefore , by ascribing to the diuel an ayrie bodie , we might rather conclude him a runnagate land-leaper , then an inherent land-lord in any mans bodie . Briefly , if the diuel hath an ayrie bodie , then also , his said bodie is subiect to corruption , and dissolution , for , the ayre is a corrupt and dissoluble bodie : and so , by consequence the diuels should be mortall as touching their ayrie bodies . And therupon , either they must haue new bodies made them a fresh , when those other be dissolued : or we must else beleeue also a resurrection of the bodies of diuels , all which you may see , is verie absurd . Lycanthropus . But Augustine he holdeth the contrarie . For , therefore saith he , is the bodie of a Diuel incortuptible , because , in the aire and fire there is an actiue force , as also in the water and earth , a passiue force : and so by consequence , the bodie of a Diuel being airie , is rather actiue , then passiue . Physiologus . By Augustines leaue , this accordeth neither with sound Philosophie , nor yet with common experience . For , with the Philosophers , the aire is rather passiue then actiue ; because his proper qualitie is thought to be liquide . Howbeit , heate and cold are said to be actiue : but drinesse and humiditie , passiue qualities . Moreuer , it hath beene prooued by manifest and daily experiments : that the aire is both passible , and corruptible , and may easily be corrupted and changed . And therefore , if the Diuels haue airie bodies , they are subiect to corruption and dissolution : and so by consequence , the Diuels , they should be indued with mortal bodies , as was affirmed before . Lycanthropus . But , manie ( for all this ) doe flatly auouch that the Diuels haue either fierie , or aierie , or waterie , or earthlie bodies : yea , such bodies as can feele , and be felte , both hurt , and be hurt , in so much as they lament when they are stricken , and being put to the fier , are burnt . And that , they themselues continually burne in such sort , as they leaue ashes behinde them : as hath beene manifestly prooued in the borders of Italie . Physiologus . If you lend you eares to the opinion of the Platonists , or but listen a while to the dotages of dreaming Psellus , they will fill your head full of these and such other Italian tales : wherein , it were more ease for a man to beleeue them , then to run into the borders of Italie , to reprooue them of falsehood . Howbeit , if Diuels in deede , should haue elementarie bodies , they could not be eternal . For , the elements , they haue in them both heate and cold , drinesse , and moisture : yea , such actiue and passiue qualities both , as , by contending together continually , must needes ( in the end ) be vtterly dissolued . And therefore these toyes which the Platonistes and Psellus doe tattle abroad , are matters that cleaue together like thombe-roppes of sand : hauing in them no soundnes of truth . Besides that , their Philosophie herein , is very improbable : for , if the Diuel be earthie , he must needes be palpable ; if he be palpable , he must needes kill the man into whom he really entreth . Also , if he be of earth created , then must he be visible , and vntransformable concerning that point : for , Gods creation cannot be annihilated by any deuise of the creature . So as , although it were graunted , that the Diuels might adde to their being , either matter or forme : yet , very certaine it is , they cannot possibly diminish or alter the substance whereof they consist . As , not to be spiritual : or , to relinquish and leaue earth , water , fire , aire , or this or that element whereof they were first created and made . But , howsoeuer they imagine of water , of aire , or of fire : very certaine I am , that the earth must alwaies be visible and palpable , yea , and the aire must be alwaies inuisible , and fire must be hote , and water must be moist . And , of these three latter bodies , especially of water and aire : no shape nor forme can naturally be exhibited to mortall mens eies , by any possible meanes of the creature . Lycanthropus . Well yet , for any thing heard , I can hardly be perswaded , but , that Diuels haue their proper and peculiar bodies . Orthodoxus . I haue forborne a long time to speake ; in hope that Physiologus and your selfe would haue growen to some issue concerning this point . But , sith you persist in your fond opinion : doe tell me what it is that makes you imagine the Diuels to haue also their bodies ? Lycanthropus . This especially perswades me vnto it : I finde in the scriptures fower sortes of spirites . Namely , first a diuine spirit , which only is God : who , although he be a spirit : yet hath he no need of a bodie , touching either his being , or his working . The second are Angelical spirites , namely Angels and Diuels , who , albeit they neede no bodies at all , in respect either of their being , or of their proper actions , yet neede they their bodies , in communicating their actions vnto vs. The third are humane spirites : who , in regard of their essential being doe neede no bodies , for , they really exist and liue , being disioined asunder from their bodies . Although yet , concerning their organical actions appertaining especiallie to the vegetatiue & sensitiue life , they at no hand may want their proper bodies . The fourth and last sort , are brutish spirites : which , neither can be , nor do any thing at al without their bodies . By al which it is cleare , that of these foure sorts of spirits , the diuine spirit alone ( the omnipotent God I meane ) he needeth no bodie : al the rest , they haue al neede of , and doe also enioy their owne bodies , for the vse of themselues and of others , and this , either to helpe , or to hurt . And , for these selfesame respects ; the very diuels also themselues do stand in neede of their bodies . Orthodoxus . By this your distribution of spirites it doth plainlie appeare , that spirites and diuels they neede no bodies at al , touching either their beeing , or working . For first , they haue their essentiall beeing , without anie body , in as much as they are spiritual substances : and then next , they neede also no bodies concerning their proper actions , for , they loue , they hate , they affect , they doe wil , and vnderstand without anie helpe of bodies at al. Lycanthropus . I speake not now of their proper , but of their ministeriall actions : which they cannot possiblie accomplish without their peculiar bodies . Orthodoxus . And , I vnderstand it also of their ministerial actions ; which they may and do eftsoones accomplish by assumed bodies : without any their peculiar bodies at all . And heerin also I speake onely of good Angels : but goe to , proceede in framing your argument . Lycanthropus . I frame it thus . Ministers , they cannot possiblie accomplish their appointed ministerie to those that liue in the bodie , without hauing a bodie . But , the Angels are all ministring spirits for such saued ones as liue in the bodie : therefore , they cannot possibly accomplish their ministerie to them , without hauing a body . Orthodoxus . I vnframe it thus . The truth of your proposition , is onely particular , hauing speciall relation to some certeine kind of ministerie : and therefore , it doth not , nor cannot so generally conclude as you would haue it to doe . Because Angels or spirits they may , and do eftsoones vndergoe some certeine offices without any assistance of an externall bodie : yea , euen all their offices whatsoeuer , they might and could wel vndertake without any bodie at all , if it so seemed good to the Lord. Howbeit , some other offices againe , they doe execute in bodies : not because there is otherwaies in themselues a defect for that work , but , for their sakes onely to whom they are sent . Neither is it of any necessitie , that the Angels ( for some speciall respects ) should alwaies consist vpon , and haue peculiarly vnto them their owne proper bodies : because ( for such speciall respects ) they may , and haue eftsoones assumed to themselues some other bodies from else where . Howbeit , what need of assuming of bodies at all , if Angels and spirits be alwaies endued with their proper and peculiar bodies ? No surely , then to assume , where no assuming of bodies in deed : but rather a stretching out , a rending , and dissoluing of substances , which is too too absurd , as was told you before . Lycanthropus . I wonder you are so peremptory in denying this point : I hauing not onely the Philosophers ( as you heard euen now ) but ecclesiastical fathers both old , and new on my side ? Orthodoxus . Your philosophers , they shoote faire and farre off , as you also haue heard euen now . You say you haue fathers both old and new on your side : let vs see first whether your old fathers doe come any neerer the marke . Lycanthropus . First , Origen , he flatly affirmeth that spirits and diuels are endued with their proper bodies . Orthodoxus . Origen ( if that booke be his owne ) is not to be regarded concerning this question : because , therein he doth nothing but play the Platonist , iumpingfull patte with Psellus in euerie point . And therefore he deserueth none other answere then that which was giuen to those other before . Let vs heare more authentical fathers , or end the discourse . Lycanthropus . Hilarie , he saith there is nothing which in it owne substance and in respect of creation is not corporall . And therefore spirits and diuels , they hauing their substance , and ( being created ) are also corporall . Orthodoxus . Hilarie , he saith so indeed ; but giues no one reason of saying so . It is not enough for your selfe to crie out and say , Hilarie , he speakes it : vnlesse Hilarie also doth prooue what he speake , which he doth not in the place you alleage . He onely propoundeth the matter without any proofe : and may easily be answered thus . The soule of man it hath her substance , and was also created and yet incorporall . For , or euer it was infused into the bodie , and after the dissolution thereof , it doth substantially exist , and is also immortall : accomplishing continually her animall operations . Neither needes shee an humane bodie in any respect of her proper essentiall being : but onely in regard of her organicall operations , as was shewed before . And therefore Hilarie he helpes you nothing at all . Lycanthropus . Tertullian verie plainely affirmeth Angels and spirites to haue their peculiar bodies . Orthodoxus . Whatsoeuer Tertullian saith there , concerning this question , the Schoolemen , they doe excuse and qualifie his speech on this sort . They say that Tertullian by the name of bodie , vnderstandeth onely the spirituall substance of Angels and nothing else : And this he doth ( saie they ) in an onely regard of the simplicitie of that people with whom he delt : who helde , that nothing coulde possibly exist in nature , without a bodie . Tertullian therefore , in that onely regard , did purposely call the substances of spirites and diuels by the name of a bodie . Lycanthropus . Yea , but Tertullian auoucheth further , that God himselfe is also a bodie : and therefore , much more that spirits and diuels they haue their bodies . His wordes be these . Who will deny God himselfe to be a bodie : although God ( indeed ) be a spirit ? Orthodoxus . This is so farre from confuting , as it rather confirmes that qualification which the Schoolemen doe make . Namely , that by the worde ( bodie ) Tertullian vnderstandeth nothing but the spirituall and simple substance of spirits and diuels . Besides that , it is one thing to be a bodie : and another to haue a bodie . Tertullian saith onely that God is a bodie : he saith not there , that God hath a bodie . Lycanthropus . Notwithstanding all this , he saith elsewhere , that spirits and diuels are corporall : his reason is because the soules of men are also corporall . Orthodoxus . Herein his pouerty bewraieth it selfe , being constrained as you see , to beg his cause : wherin also he would proue , the same by the same , namely , corporall spirits , by corporal soules . Howbeit , we haue proued before , & do here affirm it a fresh : that the soules of men , they are incorporal , and therefore by consequence , spirits and diuels they are not corporal , but spiritual substances . Besides all this , Augustine verie flatly affirmeth , that the incorporall , doe differ fully from corporall substances , and denieth withall , that whatsoeuer is created , the same is a bodie : yea , he sharpely reprehendeth and derideth Tertullian , for auouching the soules of men to be corporall . And , in the end he thinks it too too absurd , to hold that a reasonable soule should be a bodie in any respect : because the same is onely and altogether incorporall . And thus you may plainely perceiue by Augustine : how vnfitly Tertullian doth fit your turne . Exorcistes . But Augustine himselfe elsewhere verie flatly affirmeth , that all reasonable creatures are corporall substances : yea , and that euen the intellectuall creatures , namely , Angels , spirits , and diuels , are euerie of them also corporall powers ; howsoeuer they subsist not of flesh and bloud . Orthodoxus . How Augustine agreeth with Augustine , your selfe may plainely perceiue : and therein also may wisely consider what credit consists in such varietie . But that your Augustine may also receiue his answere : let vs heare his argument whereby he would prooue spirits and diuels to be corporall substances . Lycanthropus . He reasoneth thus . We doe therefore affirme the intellectuall powers to be corporall substances , onely because they are circumscribed with place : euen as humane soules are also inclosed with bodies . Orthodoxus . This is his argument . Whatsoeuer is circumscribed with place , that same is corporall : but spirits and diuels they are circumscribed with place , therefore , spirits and diuels they are corporall . I answere , the proposition is faultie , and halteth downe right . For , the localitie of spirits and diuels doth not simply depend vpon a bodie which after it owne manner , I meane circumscriptiuely and sensibly is ( no doubt ) in a place : but it ariseth properly , from the finitouesse , and dimensiuenesse of the angelicall nature it selfe . Which said angelicall nature being created of God , is therefore but finite , and circumscribed also with those her owne termes which are competent and proper vnto her . And therefore , the intellectuall powers , they are in a place , because they be finite substances : although yet , they are in a place but definitiuely or determinately . So then , spirites and diuels you see , they are vndoubtedly in a place , because they be locall : but , they are therefore said to be local , not because they be corporall as Augustine imagineth , but for that , being finite , they haue their muchnesse or quantity after a sort , I meane , no predicamental , but an intelligible quantity . And therefore Augustine he speaketh soundly you see , against Tertullian : but proueth your purpose nothing at al. Exorcistes . But , the author of the Ecclesiasticall opinions writeth plainely , that we must beleeue nothing to be incorporall or inuisible but onely God. Who alone is truely said to be incorporall , because he is euery where present , replenishing al things : and therefore also inuisible to euery creature , because he is incorporall . His first argument is framed thus . Whatsoeuer is incorporall , that same is euery where , because vbiquity is the cause of incorporality . But , spirits and diuels , they are not euery where : therefore , spirits and diuels they are not incorporal . Orthodoxus . The proposition with his prosyllogisme halteth downe right , the same being a deceaueable Elench : making that the cause , which is not properly the cause in deed . For , neither is infinitenesse , nor the vbiquity depending thereon , the only proper cause that any thing is incorporal : but some other thing els . As for example , an omnipresence , or ( if so I may speake ) an incorporiety , is truely in God : howbeit , God is incorporal , not so much in regard of his vbiquity , as because he is a simple spirit . Angels in like sort , are therefore incorporal in their proper degree , because they be spirits , but yet created spirits : and they are therefore local , because they be finite substances . Thus then , your said author his first argument , afordeth smal force ( you see ) to your present purpose . Lycanthropus . But , he argueth secondly thus . Whatsoeuer is incorporal , that also is inuisible : spirites and diuels , they are not inuisible , therefore also , not incorporal . Orthodoxus . First , the assumption is meerely false , because it maketh spirits and diuels naturally visible : which al men do know to be otherwaies by common experience . For , who euer hath hitherto seene , or could possibly perceiue a spirit or diuel as they are in their proper nature . Againe , in the proposition he failes as before , by pretending a cause , which is not the cause . For the denying of a corporal or bodily beeing , is not the proper cause of inuisibility : but , the absence , the vitiousnesse , the depriuation or fault of some other thing els which are necessarily required in the action of seeing . Besides that , by this argument , a man might also deny the aiery element to be a body or corporal substance : for , who can possibly behold , or sensibly see the purity of the ayre it selfe ? Thus then , your old fathers ( you see ) they ( in deed and in truth ) are not interessed at al in that misbegotten ofspring which your selfe so desirously ( but yet fasly ) would father vpon them : and therefore , let vs now here what better hap with the new ? Lycanthropus . With a very good will. First , Rhodiginus he affirmeth confidently , that spirits and diuels haue their proper bodies . Orthodoxus . How should he so confidently affirme his opinion , not hauing the conformitie and concord of truth consorting therewith ? Besides that , Rhodiginus he proues his assertion by the bare and onely authority of Augustine : the which auctority and opinion of his , as you haue heard it disproued before : so surely Rhodiginus himselfe , he doth dangerously crosse and annihilate it , by opposing many vnauoidable exceptions of scholemen against the same . And therefore , Rhodiginus his authority , is nothing authenticall or currant concerning your question . Lycanthropus . But Caietanus explaining these the Apostles words , ( according to the prince of the airie spirits or powers ) he is not afraide to affirme : that it holdeth best with reason and sound Philosophie , to beleeue that spirits and diuels are constituted naturally of airie bodies . Orthodoxus . Doth Caietanus say so indeed ? Oh the wit that abounds in a Cardinals hat ? But , what is his reason I pray you ? Lycanthropus . He hath a reason that knockes it dead , namely this . Euen as ( saith he ) the vegetatiue substance , is found without the sensitiue , and the sensitiue without the motiue , and an intellectiue without either sensitiue , or motiue according to place : so is it credible , that an intellectiue , may be found without a sensitiue , with a motiue onely according to place , and such ( saith he ) are spirits and diuels . Orthodoxus . Doth Caietanus conclude as you say ? Now faire fall his good hart for his cunning conclusion : surely , he himselfe alone hath striken the Popingaie dead . This I confesse , is an admirable argument . Howbeit , this I must tell you , that such maner of arguments , howsoeuer they may seeme at a blush to giue a glimmering shewe of conueniencie : they haue in them , verie small force to conuince . And without doubt , if Caietanus his conclusion be canonized currant : it might in like maner be granted , that the sensitiue substance is to be found without the vegetatiue , and the intellectiue with the sensitiue , without the motiue according to place : and so , no one thing shall be wanting , which may tende to the generalitie and absolutenesse of such kinde of couplings togither . Which , when all is done , your opinion ( for any thing Caietanus concludes ) is like to lie in the dust . Exorcistes . Yea , but Georgius he affirmeth plainely , that spirits and diuels are not onely corporall and airie substances : but that they haue in them also the power of generation , and can shedde forth seed for that purpose . Howbeit , when they come to a woman ( saith he ) then they do contract , gather togither , or thicken their airie bodies : fashioning them fitte for the purpose which they presently affect , yea , and that also their ofsprings are properly Gyants . Orthodoxus . Notwithstanding Georgius his impudent and shamelesse affirmation of a matter so shamefull , I will at no hand be drawne any longer to heare it , much lesse doe I giue credite vnto it : and which more is , I will neither defile my toong , nor infect your chaste eares with the filthie contagion thereof , it being so impossible in nature , and so incredible in all sound Diuinitie . Howbeit , if any of the learned be further desirous to heare this his grosse impudencie and foolerie more fully confuted : I referre them ouer to the learned Treatises of such as haue sifted that offensiue argument vnto the bran . More especially , to the seuerall workes of Wierus , Engubinus , Casmannus , Aristotle , Frisiuss , Scaliger , Cassianus and others : who do euery of them so soundly beate downe this your Georgius his grosse assertion , as I my selfe shall not neede to deale in it at all . Lycanthropus . But yet Zanchius , a man of excellent learning , he not onely enclineth that way : but holdeth withall , this my opinion of corporall spirits . Orthodoxus . Zanchius , imbraceth the same I confesse as the more probable opinion in his conceite : but what manner of bodies , spirits , and diuels should haue , he doth not determine . That they haue airy bodies : he seeth not ( he saith ) how the same should be proued . But he verely supposeth , spirits and diuels to haue other manner of bodies then either airie , or celestiall bodies : and that the substance of their bodies is more like to the substance of that heauen of the blessed , which is properly called the Empyrial or fiery heauen . Thus this excellent learned man ; he doth giue ( among others ) his coniecturall opinion concerning the bodies of spirits and diuels . A coniectural opinion I say , very purposely consonant to that other opinion which himselfe and some others doe hold about the creation of Angels in that the forenamed , heauen of the blessed . Howbeit , neither Zanchius , nor any of the rest , do certeinly determine this matter in question . Lycanthropus . Well , yet Zanchius and the other , they purposely encline to this my opinion ; concerning corporall spirits and diuels . Orthodoxus . Not so . For whereas your selfe do certainly hold that spirits and diuels are endued with grosse and airie bodies : Zanchius , and some others suppose , they do rather consist of empyriall or fierie bodies as was shewed before , where also I haue purposelie put downe the speciall reason of this their coniecturall opinion . Howbeit , for a further declaration heereof , I do answer with Gregorie , Beda , Damascene , the Schoolemen , and others : who doe all iointly affirme , that euen as the knowledge of spirits and diuels ( in comparison of our knowledge ) is verie excellent and woonderfull large , although yet ( in comparison of God ) the same is but shallow and shorte : so surely , those the supposed bodies of spirites and diuels in comparison of our earthly and palpable bodies , may fitlie be saide to be spirituall , whereas yet ( in comparison of the omnisufficient , and incircumscriptible spirit of spirites ) they may after a sort , be saide to be corporall . And this our censure concerning corporall spirites ; being rightly vnderstood , as it ought to be ( that is , being graunted comparatiuely ) may very well stande with the truth . For certeine it is that Angels are not spirites purely simple , as God is most simple : neither are they infinite and incircumscriptible spirits , as God alone is , but are marshalled within their proper dimensions and bounds . All which being graunted , it doth not thereupon necessarily folow , that therefore Angels , they are not created incorporall & finite spirits , and such as ( after their manner ) are limitted definitiuely within their proper dimensions : but this rather folowes thereof , namely , that therefore spirits and diuels they are not most simple , most infinite , illocal , nor omnipotent powers . For , the specialls do alwaies retaine the common nature of their generall , and therein they fitly accord : howsoeuer , by reason of some repugnant formes , they doe otherwaies dissent among themselues . And thus , your Fathers ( you see ) both old and new , they are fully answered , concerning their supposed mannaging of this your opinion of corporal spirits or diuels . Philologus . Are you able Lycanthropus , to reply to his answere ? Lycanthropus . I am vtterly vnable . But sir , sith you so confidently do hold that spirits and diuels are incorporall : let vs heare your reasons , and authorities concerning this point . Orthodoxus . With very good will my reasons are these . First , spirits and diuels haue not flesh and bones ( saith Christ ) as you see me to haue . Wherein it is very apparant , that , there is one substance of humane bodies , and another of spiritual powers . Spirits , they haue neither flesh nor bones : therefore , they cannot be comprehended with the sight of the eie , nor handled by the sense of feeling , both which are proper to the sensible perceiuing of humane bodies . Againe , the Lord ( saith the Apostle ) hath made his spirits his messengers : and his ministers a flame of fier . The which place , albeit Dauid doth properly vnderstand of the operation of winds : yet , for as much as the Apostle applieth the same to the Angels , it is not to be doubted at all , but as the name Spirit , so likewise a spirituall essence appertaineth vnto them . Againe , we read that a legion of diuels , namely , sixe thousand , sixe hundred , sixtie and sixe possessed the man in the Gospell , whom Christ deliuered . But , if diuels be corporall substances , and doe essentially enter into the bodie of man , it is vtterly impossible that there should so many be crouded together , and all contained at once within the narrow corners of an humane bodie . Exorcistes . Some doe hold , there was ( in deed ) but one onely diuell in the possessed : whose name was Legion . Orthodoxus . As though it were possible , that one onely diuell could be really inherent in two seuerall persons at once ? Besides that , it is verie apparant in Marke and in Luke , that , there was not one but many diuels : yea , and Mathew also ( exchanging the name of one into many ) he saith , the diuels besought Christ that they might goe into the heard of swine . Exorcistes . Sir , I onely haue shewed you what some others doe hold : but , proceed in your purpose . Orthodoxus . I proceed thus ; The spirits or soules of men are incorporall : therefore spirits and diuels are also incorporall . For , if the reasonable soule or spirit of a man , be not corporall in any respect , I meane , if it be neither solide nor palpable as are the earthie and terrestriall bodies , neither yet subtile or slender as are the airie and celestiall bodies : then without doubt , spirits and diuels they are likewise incorporall , because they also are spirits . For , the nature , and definitions of a spirit and a bodie , do altogither , and in euery respect differ betweene themselues . And thus ( besides those Philosophicall reasons which Physiologus propounded before ) you haue hetherto heard from the Scriptures , such seuerall arguments as doe verie plainely conclude the non being of corporall spirites or diuels . Pneumatomachus . Beleeue me Lycanthropus , before we began this our conference , I doubted greatly of the essentiall being of spirits and diuels : Howbeit now I am cleere in that point , and by this discourse doe farther perceiue them to be admirable and woonderfull powers . Lycanthropus . Verie true as you saie . But sir , let vs heare I beseech you , your authorities also concerning this point ? Orthodoxus . With verie good will. Wherein I assure you , that this our opinion concerning incorporall spirits and diuels , is generallie receiued in the church of God : approoued by the consent of many Diuines : and confirmed fully from the Laterane Councel . Lycanthropus . For the generall receite thereof in the Church I make little doubt : but let vs heare now your seuerall authorities . Orthodoxus . Content . First , Dionysius writeth thus . Wee account not ( saith he ) the celestiall and deified powers or spirits , to consist of innumerable feete , or to haue a manifold countenance , neither yet , to be like vnto liuing and corporall creatures : albeit the sacred Scriptures ( in speaking of them ) doe vse these Poeticall and fained formes . Chrysostome , he saith , the Seraphimes are called spirits , that is , incorporall , and supernaturall powers . And a little after , he saith , they be called fierie or flaming creatures ; because their substance is most pure . Augustine be defineth them thus , Angels and diuels are spirituall powers , incorporall substances , inuisible , insensible , reasonable , intellectuall , and immortall : the good ones , they are shining and impassible , the euill ones blacke and passible . Theodoret , he saith that God created the vniuersall nature of incorporall substances : constituting , decreeing , and ordeining their said nature to be intellectuall and also immortall . Andreas of Ierusalem , he saith , that Angels and spirites are all without their bodies . Gregorie also , he saith in like sort , that spirits and diuels they haue no flesh . Isidore , he saith that Angels and diuels , according to their nature : are called spirits . Damascene , he saith that Angels and spirits are intellectuall substances , euermore mooueable and free , by the arbiterment of their proper power , incorporall , the ministers of God , obtaining immortalitie by grace , not by nature : the portraiture & bounds of whose substantiall being , onely the creatour of spirites , he knoweth himselfe . Carolus magnus , he saith the essentiall substance of Angels and diuels is immortall : because they be spirits by nature . Vigerius Saonensis , he saith , that Angels are all of them spirituall substances without any bodies at all , consisting of vnderstanding and will : and therefore , they are euerie of them called Angels as it were by a Christian name . Culmannus he saith , that Angels are not corporall but spiritual substances : because they be spirits . For a spirit is not a substance consicting of elements , or hauing flesh and bones : in which onely respect , the Scriptures do call them ministring spirits . Briefly , Bernard he saith , the verie wals are vnable to withstand the Angelicall spirits : but that all bodies , ( how solide or palpable soeuer ) they are vnto them verie penetrable , Loe , heere we haue summoned a grand-Iurie , of ancient Fathers : who haue all ( with one generall consent ) giuen vp their verdit , concerning the non being of corporall spirites and diuels . Go to therefore Lycanthropus , what say you them ? Lycanthropus . I saie they are all good men and true . Orthodoxus . Waell , then I hope you will yeeld this question , namely , that spirites and diuels , they haue not materiall bodies , peculiar to their essentiall being : but are altogither simple , and incorporall substances : and that therefore , their essentiall being in men , ( if the same should be granted ) can neuer be perceiued by corporall sense , and so by consequence , no corporall possession at all . Lycanthropus . I yeeld no such matter vnto you . Orthodoxus . Why man , it was the determination , of that grand-Iurie of Fathers , whom you acknowledge for good men and true . Whereupon , their verdit was foorthwith authentically recorded : and may not now ( by any orderly course ) be reuersed . Lycanthropus . It may be , they were to inconsiderate and rash in giuing their verdite : and therefore , let vs heare your Laterane Councell concerning this matter in question . Orthodoxus . What man , must the credit of a grand-Iurie of Catholike Fathers be made to depend vpon the approbation of a generall Councell ? Well then , the Laterane Councell doth flatly confirme , that Angels or spirits , they are incorporall , created of God : and , were not eternall before al beginnings , but , created onely in time . By all the premisses then , you may plainly perceiue by swaie of argument , by plaine euidence of Scripture , by authoritie of Fathers , yea , and by the whole consent of a generall Councell , that spirits and diuels are incorporall substances : and , that therefore , if diuels doe essentially enter into the bodies of men , as your selfe do fondly imagine , they enter not so by any bodies of their owne , because they haue no bodies at all . Lycanthropus . Whether diuels haue bodies , or no bodies , it makes no great matter : verie certaine I am , they haue a reall possession in men , and I prooue it thus . Spirites and diuels , they can essentially assume to themselues , true naturall bodies : therefore they can essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie . Orthodoxus . Are you fledde on the sodaine from the diuell his reall possessing of bodies , to his essentiall assuming of bodies ? Can you find no fast footing to setle your selfe vpon : that you thus plodde hether and thither from point to point , as a man fearefully distracted , or suddenly fallen in a maze ? Lycanthropus . Yes sir , I haue fast footing ( I warrant you ) for whatsoeuer I hold : although yet now , I rather desire to heare what you are able to say , concerning the diuell his essentiall assuming of true naturall bodies . Orthodoxus . Well , then I perceiue your store is not great : being thus constrained to spend on the stocke . Howbeit , because this matter wil craue a longer discourse , then the present time will affoord : let vs therefore goe take our naturall rest , and meet here againe betimes in the morning , to discourse this point to the full . Physiologus . Your motion is good for vs all . Philologus . Very true as you say . And therefore , we three wil repaire to our Innes , to take our rest : and meete you ( God willing ) to morrow , by six of the clocke . Orthodoxus . Wel then , let vs forthwith arise , and depart . The end of the third Dialogue . The fourth Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . Whether Spirits and Diuels can assume to themselues true naturall bodies ? What bodies they are said to assume ? and how those Scriptures are to be vnderstood , which be for this purpose produced . The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOMACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Philologus . LYcanthropus ? I haue this night in my sleepe , beene so strangely troubled about thy last argument : as , if thou take heed to thy selfe , I verily beleeue thou wilt giue them the foile . Lycanthropus . I am so perswaded my selfe : howbeit , if I be conquered therein , I haue another in store that will trouble them more then that by a thousand fold . Pneumatomachus . Make much of your arguments against the intended skirmish , and all little enough : for , you are to encounter with sharpe sighted aduersaries . Lycanthropus . Be as sharpe as they will : they shall be sure to receiue as hot as they bring . But , behold where they come ? Orthodoxus . What sirs ? God giue you good morrow . You haue preuented our purpose : which was , to haue perused an author or twaine before your comming . Howbeit , sith you are all so readie : Goe to Lycanthropus , propound your argument to vs. Lycanthropus . I propound it thus . Spirits and Diuels , they can essentially assume to themselues true naturall bodies : therefore , they can essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie . Physiologus . We haue hetherto denied , and your selfe was vnable to prooue any reall or substantiall possession at all : and would you now thus cunningly insinuate some essentiall entrance of diuels , vnder the pretence of assumed bodies ? Which assuming of bodies if it should be denied ; would perhaps , be as hard to prooue as any the points before . Philologus . What sir ? would you beare vs in hand , it were hard to prooue that the diuell can assume to himselfe a bodie ? That was neuer yet doubted of any : and dare your selfe vndertake to denie the same ? Physiologus . I vndertake no absolute deniall thereof : but onely do here make it a Question . Howbeit , sith your selues are so resolute concerning this point : doe tell me what bodie the diuell doth assume to himselfe . Whether , a true naturall : or phantasticall bodie ? Pneumatomachus . Surely , a true natural bodie : or none at all . Physiologus . If a true naturall bodie , then tell me further , whether it be a bodie created before : or , to be newly created ? Lycanthropus . It is a bodie created before . Physiologus . If you hold it a bodie created before , then tell me yet further , whether you take it to be a liuing : or dead mans bodie ? Exorcistes . I take it to be some liuing mans bodie , if any at all : else , how should it possibly serue the diuels purpose ? Physiologus . I woonder , you should so grossely imagine an impossible matter . For , where hath the diuell receiued power from the Lord : to dispossesse liuing soules of their organicall bodies ? And , what must become of that liuing mans soule : all the while the diuell assumeth his bodie it selfe , to serue his mischieuous purpose ? Moreouer , it is verie absurde : to suppose that the diuell can possibly assume to himselfe any liuing mans bodie . Because the Lord hath so vnchangeably established such an inseperable vnion betweene the soule and bodie of a liuing man : as , vnlesse the bodie and soule be substantially vnited together , that man may not truely be termed a liuing man. And which more is , the soule and body are so inseparably conioyned by the creation of God : as , no one creature in heauen or in earth may possibly disioyne them , before the finall separation of life , according to the determinate councell & appointment of God. Briefly , be it supposed that the diuell could in deed assume to himselfe some liuing mans bodie , and could also for the present , extenuate the same , and transforme the substance thereof into spirituall congellations , as Tatianus affirmeth : yet , this is verie certaine and a generall rule , that , two substantiall formes cannot possibly be inherent together and at once , in one and the selfe same subiect . And therefore , to bring the substantiall forme of a diuell without feeling , into the substantiall body of a man without either killing or hurting , and which more is , to transforme the same into such a slender and impalpable substance as cannot of the possessed him selfe be sensibly perceiued or felt , no not at the first entrance into him : it may well be vnlikely , but very certaine I am , the same is vtterly impossible for all the diuels in hell to accomplish , such hard hap they haue , in assuming a liuing mans body . Pneumatomachus . For my part , I rather suppose that the Diuel doth assume to himselfe some deads mans bodie . Physiologus . This your supposall is no lesse absurd then the orher before . For first , if that bodie which the Diuel doth assume , be the body of a dead man departed long since , then surely , it is an hundred to one , that , that selfesame assumed bodie is either eaten with wormes , and so , vnfit for the seruice : or is else so putrified with filthie corruption , as the Diuel ( by entring into any therwith ) must needes poyson the possessed man vnto death . Againe , if that assumed bodie , be the bodie of a dead man but lately departed this life : the Diuel then , by assuming such a newly departed bodie , must be supposed to appeere in a white winding sheete , as he was heretofore thought to appeere vnto Saul , in Samuels supposed bodie with a mantel about him , & must so ( for the present ) forsake that his supposed forme , which the Poets and Painters doe hold to be griesly and blacke . Besides that , in supposing the Diuel can assume to himselfe the bodie of a man , you doe therein very grosly oppose your selfe to the blessed Apostle : who saith most confidently that mens bodies are created for the Lord himselfe , and not for infernall Spirits . That , they are the members of Christ , not the mansions of Belial : the temples of the holy Ghost , not a dungeon for Diuels , a stie for Satan , not an habitation for Helhounds . Briefly , if the Diuel doth assume to himselfe , some dead mans bodie , whether long since , or but lately departed : we must ( by this your supposall ) imagine a resurrection of bodies before to the generall iudgement , and therein also , must attribute to the Diuel , that absolute power of raising the dead , which only is due and proper to God , and so , by consequence conclude , that the Diuel can accomplish and worke true miracles . Whereas the Lord only is able to take life from the dead , and to restore them againe vnto life : which is such a miraculous worke of the omnipotent God , as by an infallible consequence approoueth the Deitie . Seeing therefore that by this your supposal you doe in effect but Deifie the Diuel : bee foorthwith ashamed to hold , that Spirits haue power to assume to themselues the bodie of a man alreadie created , whether dead , or aliue . Lycanthropus . You grant then , that the Diuels doe assume to themselues some vncreated bodie ? Physiologus . I grant no such thing . For , how is it possible , either Diuel or Angel should assume that which is not at all : or that they should take to themselues , a bodie not yet existing in nature ? Philologus . Very true . But after the creation of such an essentiall bodie : you doe then confesse , the Diuel may assume such a bodie ? Physiologus . I confesse no such matter : vnlesse you first shew me by whom those selfesame supposed bodies should be essentially created : whether by God : or the Diuel ? Exorcistes . They are surely created by God , or not at all : for the Lord onely alone is the creator of all things . Physiologus . Though the Lord in deed , be the Creator of all things , yet doth it not necessarily folow , and your selfe shal neuer be able to proue , that he is also the Creator of these things : And , how dare you then so confidently auouch : that these your supposed bodies for the seruice of diuels , are essentially created by God ? Exorcistes . God is of infinite power : and therefore may doe it . Physiologus . Your may be , concludeth nothing at all . Neither doe we dispute what God either may , or is able to doe ? but what ( in deed and in truth ) he doth certainly accomplish . And , albeit the Lord ( I confesse ) be of infinit power , yet is his said power restrainde to his will : for whatsoeuer the Lord willeth , that doth he in heauen and in earth . So then , vnlesse you can shew the Lords word to witnesse his will concerning such extraordinarie creation of bodies for the seruice of Satan : whatsoeuer your selfe shall haplie imagine that God may doe , therein , you must yet giue vs leaue to doubt of the doing there of in deed . Lycanthropus . But , why may not the Lord for the execution of iustice : create them such bodies ? Physiologus . First , because the Lord hath infinite meanes besides , and those also of more excellent maiestie for the execution of iustice : and therefore , he stands in no maner of neede to haue such a patched supplie . Secondly , for that the Lord will neuer do that ; which may any waies witnes against himselfe . But , for him to create such essential bodies afresh at the pleasure of the diuell , and so oft as he pleaseth : doth derogate greatly from the certaintie of that sacred truth which sealeth vnto vs , the certaine accomplishment of all his workes whatsoeuer in sixe daies space , and the vndoubted ceasing from all his labors the folowing day . Moreouer , to hold for infallible truth , that those your supposed bodies for the seruice of Satan must in any case be created of God : what doe you else in effect , but thereby conclude the Lord him selfe to be slauishly subiect vnto Satan his accursed commaund , in creating him bodies afresh , and so oft as seemeth him good ? Briefly sith the glory of God is the maine end of all his creation : what one glory may possibly redounde to the Lord , by creating such your supposed bodies as ( being altogether by Satan abused ) are prepared neither to destruction nor glorie ? And therefore , it is grosse impietie , or rather an horrible blasphemie for any to hold , that the Lord alone must be the Creator of any such essentiall bodies , as your selfe and some others suppose the diuell doth assume to his seruice . Lycanthropus . It is certaine then , that those assumed bodies are created by Satan him selfe . Physiologus . It is euen as certainly so , as that S. Donston did hold the diuell fast by the nose with a paire of pincers , the very first day he appeared vnto him in such an assumed bodie : wherein Donston serued the Diuell of trust , and according to his due desertes : to teach him to be medling with the worke of creation , before he had gotte a Comission from God. But , alas , Lycanthropus , are you not highly ashamed , to hold so maine absurd and horrible impieties , or rather such execrable and intollerable blasphemies ? For , be you throughly assured of this , that your selfe imagening the diuell a creator of bodies , you doe thereby ascribe vnto him a supernaturall power : and therein also doe attribute that vnto diuels , which onely is due vnto God , because creation of substances was neuer yet graunted to man or Angell , much lesse vnto diuels . Besides that , if it were in the power of diuels either to create , or assume to them selues essentiall bodies at pleasure : it is not then to be doubted , but that ( such and so endlesse is their malice towards men ) we should shortly haue the whole world replenisht with corporall diuels , yea , and their number would farre surmount the number of men , if all be true that is set downe in Salomons notes of coniuration . Wherein are named seauentie nine principall diuels : hauing euery of them vnder them and at their commaund , some tenne , twentie , thirtie , fortie , fiftie , sixtie , seauentie , yea , and some of them eightie legions of diuels at the least . So then howsoeuer your selfe shall otherwaies dreame of a power in Satan for assuming of bodies : sith they can be no such bodies as are newly created either by God or the diuell : sith they can be no bodies created before : sith they can be no bodies of men either dead , or aliue : it must necessarily follow , that those imagined bodies which the diuels are supposed to assume to them selues , they are ( in deed and in truth ) no true naturall bodies . Lycanthropus . It is like then , that the diuels , they do onely assume to themselues but a phantasticall body . Physiologus . And it is like then , that the diuels , they haue onely in men , but a phantasticall possession : which is the very same issue you were brought vnto before , when we discoursed of the mental possession of diuels . Philologus . How now Lycanthropus , are you brought to a non-plus before you well wiste ? Lycanthropus . I wot not I assure you , which waies to winde my selfe out from these windings and turnings : howbeit , for any thing hitherto heard , I will neuer beleeue but that the diuell can assume to himselfe a true naturall bodie . Orthodoxus . What man ? will you with such setled pertinacie dwell in your opinion : not hauing sound reason therefore ? Lycanthropus . Yes sir , I haue reasons and authorities both support me therein . Orthodoxus . Let vs first heare your reasons ? Lycanthropus . With verie good will : wherein first from the like , I doe reason thus . The good Angels of God , they haue appeered to men in assumed bodies : therefore spirits and diuels , they may also appeere vnto men in assumed bodies . Orthodoxus . Your argument is faultie ; the same not consisting of things essentially alike in euery respect . For , neither haue the infernall diuels ▪ those heauenly priuiledges which the celestiall Angels enioy : neither yet are they equall with them in knowledge and power . So as , although the good Angels doe sometimes assume to themselues essentiall bodies : yet doth it not necessarilie folow , that therefore , the euill Angels or diuels are able to do the like . Againe , howsoeuer the good Angels haue ( at some time ) assumed essential bodies : yet doth it not appeer , and your selfe cannot prooue , that they created those bodies themselues , but by the prouident power and appointment of God , they had them from else where for that speciall seruice whereunto they were sent . Moreouer , there is no sound consequence in this , viz. Good Angels , they do visible appeere vnto men in assumed bodies : therefore euill Angels they doe the like . This I say doth not folow : because of the good Angels appearing in visible bodies , we haue had often and manifest experience , but of the euill Angels appearing so , no example or instance at all can be giuen . Briefly , your argument is but a deceaueable Elench , from a may be , to the being indeed : whereof no certeine conclusion can folow . For thus you reason . Good Angels haue appeared to men in assumed bodies : therefore spirites and Diuels they may also appeare vnto men in assumed bodies . This your ( may be ) concludeth nothing for certeine . Whereas you should haue argued thus . Good Angels appeare in assumed bodies , therefore spirits and diuels do appeare vnto men in assumed bodies : but then your consequent woulde haue been ouer-hard to prooue , and besides that , it is the very question it selfe . By the premisses then it is very apparant , that this your first reason hath in it no reason at all to support your opinion . Lycanthropus . But , sith it is certeine that the good Angels doe oftentimes appeare in assumed bodies : why should not spirites and diuels be able to do the like ? Orthodoxus . As though , because the omnipotent God doth furnish and endowe his heauenly messengers with sensible bodies , when and so oft as seemeth good to himselfe : therefore , euery impotent and infernall spirit or diuell is able also , to do the like at their pleasures ? Lycanthropus . Why may not the Lord do as much for spirits and diuels ? Orthodoxus . The Lord may do whatsoeuer he please : that it will be his good pleasure to do this which you dreame of , who can certeinly say ? His pleasure in the one hath beene made apparant vnto vs by often experience : for the other we haue neither worde nor promise , nor example , to my remembrance . Exorcistes . Yes , there is a plaine proofe heereof in the Psalmes : where Dauid saith plainly that the Lord powred foorth the fiercenes of his wrath vpon the Egyptians , by sending his euill Angels among them . Orthodoxus . What vnderstand you by the euil Angel there ? Exorcistes . Those spirits and diuels wherewith they were dailie tormented . Orthodoxus . Consider diligentlie the story concerning the Egyptian plagues , and tel me where you find any one diuel afflicting them : nay , tel me what one plague was among them , which was not inflicted vpon them by the message and ministery of Moses and Aaron . And therefore , you are deepely deceiued in mistaking these words , by sending the Angels or messengers of euils . Which place , Tremellius vnderstands not of spirites and Diuels sent among them : but of Moses and Aaron rather : whom the Lord sent to the Egyptians as his only Angels , that is , the only messengers and executioners of all those his euils which were cast vpon Egipt . And , this sense is ( in my opinion ) according to the purpose , coherence , and scope of the Psalme it selfe . Lycanthropus . But , it is as Exorcistes saith , in the vulgar translation ? Orthodoxus . It is true , and therefore let it so stand as he saith , for euil Angels : I meane , for spirits and diuels . But , now tel me withal , how much this place doth make for the assuming of bodies by spirits and diuels ? Thus you reason . The Lord sent his euil Angels among the Egyptians : therefore , spirits and diuels they assume to themselues what bodies they please . This consequent hath in it no sequel at al : and it is quite contrary to the words of the text . For Dauid saith not that the Lord sent his euil Angels essentially into them , but among them , I meane the Egyptians : which proueth nothing for Satan his assuming of bodies . Exorcistes . But yet , we haue a notable example concerning this point , from the diuel his tempting of Euah in the serpent . Orthodoxus . Wel , go to , frame your argument . Exorcistes . I frame it thus . Satan he did put vpon him the body of the serpent , and spake very sensibly in that selfesame serpent therefore , spirits and diuels they can and are able to do the like with any body els whatsoeuer . Philologus . Maister Orthodoxus ? this argument I beleeue will set you hard ? Orthodoxus . Not so hard as you thinke , by then the ambiguous termes are opened more plainely . And therefore , doe tell me here , what you meane by satan his putting the serpents body vpon him ? Exorcistes . I meane this : namely , that he did really and essentially enter into the very essence and substance of the serpent it selfe . Orthodoxus . Then it must folow by necessary consequence , that the diuel himselfe did essentially become the serpent in deed : or the serpent essentially the diuel at least , during the whole time of that action . Lycanthropus . Yea , what else ? Orthodoxus . Do you aske me what else ? I aske you for answere , whether your hart be so deeply bewitched with blindnesse , as you cannot perceiue the absurdity hereof : it beeing so apparantly euident to all the world ? For , is it possible thinke you , that the diuel should be able vtterly to annihilate the essētiall being either of himselfe , or of any other creature vnder the heauens ? Or , is it likely that satan can cause himsele to be a diuel or no diuel : and the serpent to be a serpent or no serpent , when , and so oft as it pleaseth himselfe ? If this were certeinely so , what one creature in al the world could any long time continue in that proper estate wherein it was first created of God ? For , the diuel hath wil and malice enough to do mischiefe , if he had but that absolute power to accomplish the same . Moreouer , from satan his assuming of the serpents body alone , you doe plainely conclude an absolute power in diuels ouer all other bodies else whatsoeuer : and so , from one perticular example you do cunningly gather a generall conclusion thus . Satan , he did essentially assume the body of the serpent : therefore , spirits and diuels can essentially assume what bodies they please . This argument is vtterly vntrue in euery part . For first , whereas I plainely deny that the diuel can so essentially assume a body , the which thing you should proue : your selfe by a pitifull begging of the cause in question , do take it as graunted , and thereupon , would proue the same by the same , attributing also to the diuel such an absolute power therein as is vtterly impertinent to any creature , and thereby also you doe highly derogate from the diuinity and power of God. Secondly , your argument also is faulty , in that it concludeth more largely then was put downe in the premisses : namely , from one particular practize of satan it concludes an absolute power ( as was said ) ouer al bodies whatsoeuer , which is a deceiueable kind of reasoning . For , albeit we should grant ( which will neuer be proued ) that satan had for that once , some speciall preuiledge granted from God , and did thereby also , essentially enter into the very essence of the serpent as your selfe suppose : yet doth it not folow , that therefore spirits and diuels they can also essentially assume to themselues what bodies they please . Howbeit , to the end we may the more directly and plainely proceed , doe tell me whether it was the diuel alone , or the serpent alone , or the diuel and serpent together , that gaue the onset vpon Euah in that temptation ? Philologus . It could not be the diuell alone : for he is not named at all in the action . Orthodoxus . If he be not named at all in the action : how comes he then to be charged for the principall author in that selfesame action ? Exorcistes . In other places of scripture , his malice that way is mightily tainted , and himselfe accused for a murderer from the beginning : although in the historie of Euahs tentation he be not precisely named any author at all . Orthodoxus . Yea , but how can those places of Scripture , in anie sounde reason impose the blame of the action vpon satan himselfe : if neither absolutely , nor properly nor historically , nor Allegorically , nor metaphorically , nor any waies else he be specially named in that very historie of Euahs tentation , wherein the action it selfe with the seuerall circumstances is fully and plainely expressed ? Exorcistes . Moses ( you know ) doth not set downe the story of the Bible at large : but onely compiles the same in a summary abridgement . Orthodoxus . But , that action especially being so waighty a matter , was necessary to be knowen in euery point : and therefore it is not to be doubted , but that the history concerning the same is so exactly set forth with euery circumstance , as that any man may be able to iudge of the principall actors therein at the least . So then , although the diuel in that history be neither absolutely , nor historically , nor properly expressed by name : yet must we acknowledge him to be therein allegorically and metaphorically set forth at the least , or otherwaies impose no blame vpon him at al concerning the action . Lycanthropus . Yes , euen by that selfesame story he is allegorically or metaphorically set forth in the serpent . Orthodoxus . Then was it no natural serpent , but the diuel himselfe metaphorically set forth by the name of a serpent : who gaue the onset vpon Euah in that tentation . For , by allegories and metaphors there is euermore some other thing ment ; then that which is literally expressed . Lycanthropus . But yet for all that , the serpent is said to haue tempted Euah . Orthodoxus . That is , the diuel alone metaphorically set forth ( as you say ) by the name of a serpent : was he that tempted our grandmother Euah . I proue it thus . If in that action , the diuel himselfe be not historically and properly , but allegorically and metaphorically called a serpent , because he is most crafty and subtile , then vndoubtedly , the obiection of a serpent is very inconuenient : but , the antecedent is true , and therefore also the consequent . Exorcistes . Proue your antecedent . Orthodoxus . I wil. First ( besides that which you grant your selfe ) it is an accustomed thing in the sacred scriptures to vse the names of other creatures in setting forth to our sense , the intellectual creatures themselues . Hereupon it is , that ( in the Apocalypse ) the ( diuel by a perpetual allegory ) is called a dragon or serpent : and therefore in this history of Euahs tentation by the like perpetuall allegory he is also called a serpent . Secondly Moses ( in that action ) doth purposely intitle the diuel by the name of a serpent : because ( by his effectuall creeping into the interiour senses , as also , by infecting mens minds with venemous perswasions ) he doth very liuely represent the nature , disposition , and qualities of the venemous serpent . Thirdly , the serpent that tempted Euah in paradice , is there said to be more subtile then euerie beaste of the field : the which ( if Philosophers writings be true ) cannot be truely auouched of the naturall serpent . For there are many other creatures more subtile then she : & therefore , it must needs be ment of the spirituall serpent . Fourthly , Moses doth therefore purposely attribute speech to the serpent which tempted Euah : to the end we ( knowing by experience , that speach cannot properly accord with a naturall serpent ) might the rather be induced to beleeue that the same must metaphorically be vnderstood of the spirituall serpent , Fiftly , the punishment inflicted by God , hath no conueniencie at all with the naturall ; but with that infernall figured serpent the diuell . For , neither can the going vpon her belly , nor the eating of dust be any punishment at all to the naturall serpent ; because ( before the tentation ) both those properties were peculiarly alotted vnto her , she taking her name from her creeping condition . Neither yet may we imagine that the said serpent ( being of some better forme before the tentation ) was then ( by the iust iudgement of God ) transformed into a viler proportion , property , or shape : she being in the historie of the creation accompted among the creeping creatures . Lastly , Moses he makes no mention at all of the serpents comming to Euah about that busines , nor of her departure after the action , nor of any one speciall propertie whereby she might be essentially discerned to be ( in deed ) a true naturall serpent , no nor of any manner amaze , or sodaine feare in Euah at her sodaine approch & extraordinarie speach : whereas yet Moses him selfe , was afterwards horribly afraied at the onely sight of a serpent . So then , by all the premises it is very apparant , that it was the diuell him selfe and no naturall serpent , who set vpon Euah in that tentation , he being onely metaphorically set forth by the name of a serpent : and therefore had no need in that action , essentially to assume to him selfe the body of a naturall serpent , for the better accomplishment of the entended businesse . Exorcistes . Sir ? if by the onely name of a serpent , you will needes metaphorically vnderstand the diuell : how then should some of the words in that storie accord with the nature of satan ? As , where it is said that the serpent was more subtile , and was cursed aboue all the beasts in the fielde : and that she should goe vpon her bellie , and eate the dust of the earth all the daies of her life . Can any of these things be properly applied to the diuell ? Was the diuell before this , of an Angelicall nature : and must he be marshalled now , with the brute beasts of the field ? Hath satan a belly to goe vpon now : being but lately an incorporall creature ? Feedeth the diuell now vpon the dust of the earth like a creature that liues by naturall nourishment ? or , hath he the daies of his life determined now : being not long since an immortall substance ? These speeches you see , they cannot be properly applied to the diuell : and therefore absurd to say it was satan , metaphorically let forth by the serpent , who set vpon Euah alone in that tentation . Orthodoxus . You gallop away with the matter as if you were certainely sure to get the goale : but , take heed to your footings for feare of a fall . And seeing you vrge me so strictly with the literall sense , do here tell me I pray you , whether all things set downe in that historie , can ( in any literall sense ) be possibly applied to a naturall serpent ? If not , why them should it seeme strange vnto any , that the most pointes in that action be allegorically expounded ? Howbeit , to be silent my selfe ; you shall heare what Augustine and some others doe say concerning these matters . When any thing ( saith he ) is found in the Scriptures which cannot ( without an absurditie ) be possibly interpreted literally : that thing without doubt , is spoken figuratiuely , and must receiue some other signification then the bare letter doth seeme to import . For ( saith Gregorie , ) when the order of the historie becommeth defectiue of it selfe in the literall sense , then , some misticall sense as it were with wide open dores , doth offer it selfe : yea , and that misticall sense must be receiued in steede of the literall sense it selfe . And therefore ( saith Peter Martyr , ) that malediction or curse which the Lord did cast on the serpent , must be allegorically vndestood of the diuell : and those things which seeme properly to accord to the serpent in deed , must metaphoricallie be transferred to satan vnderstood in the serpent . And according to this infallible rule , Augustine him selfe he putteth a plaine difference between the Lords speach to Adam and Euah , and that which he gaue to the serpent , affirming the first to be literall , and the other allegoricall : because else ( saith he ) it should seeme absurde to offer a vocall speech vnto a bruite beast without vnderstanding . And accordingly he giues an allegoricall sense concerning that action , saying : Onely , that temporarie punishment of Satan is here set downe , which ought to be a watchword and terrour vnto vs : and not that eternall vengeance which is reserued for him in Hell against the generall iudgement . And therefore , where it is saide . Thou art cursed aboue all the beasts in the field , there the verie bruite beasts ( to the horrible confusion of satan ) are preferred before him ; not in absolute power , but in an especiall regard of that happy continuance and timely conseruation of their originall nature . For , the beasts of the field they doe not forgoe any heauenly happines which they neuer yet had : but they continue foorth their course in that selfesame primary estate which they tooke at the first . Againe , whereas it is said , vpon thy belly shalt thou goe : the meaning is , that Satan should creepingly preuaile against such as are carried headlong with carnall affections , which is meant by the belly . Againe , where it is said , thou shalt eate the dust of the earth all the daies of thy life : the meaning is , that such onely as delight in earthly desires , should become an appointed praie for the diuell , while the world doth endure , which is termed the daies of his life . By this then you see , that those things in the storie which are thought properly to appertaine to the serpent : may yet ( in an allegoricall sense ) be fitly transferred to the diuell vnderstood by the serpent . The rest of the matters are so pertinent to satan himselfe , as ( without great violence done to the text ) they may ( at no hand be applied to the naturall serpent : and therefore , for any thing hetherto heard , the diuell ( in giuing the onsette vpo Euah ) he had no need at all , essentially to insinuate himselfe into the bodie of a serpent , sith he might by himselfe alone , verie sufficiently accomplish that worke . Pneumatomachus . Doe you hold it for truth , that the diuell ( in that action ) did not vse the ministerie of the serpent at all . Orthodoxus . What I doe hold therein , shall hereafter be heard . Onely , ( because your selfe doe so confidently insist vpon satan his essentiall assuming of the serpents bodie at his tempting of Euah ) I haue here ( as it were by the way ) very apparantly proued , that ( for any thing you are able to propound to the contrary ) the diuell he might easily effect that worke by himselfe alone , without any helpe of the serpent , as you haue heard by the former auctorities , and may yet haue the same further confirmed by Cyril him selfe . Who doth flatly affirme , that the serpent was no true and naturall serpent in deede , but onely the forme and shape of a serpent : vnder which the diuell him selfe did talke with the woman , and wherein also he did vndergoe the curse of God denounced vpon him . And I pray you , what absurditie , impietie , offence , or inconuenience were it at all for any to hold that Moses ( vnder the person of a poysoning serpent ) did metaphorically set forth the diuell himselfe who poysoned Euah ? From whence comes it else that the diuell is called a viper or serpent , and his children the generation of vipers ? but from that first description which Moses makes of him in this selfesame action ? There are none so grosse ( I suppose ) as to dreame that the diuel is a materiall serpent : nor any so madde , as to imagine that the wicked are the the generations of snakes and vipers according to the literall sense ? Briefly , let this action concerning Euahs tentation be conferred exactly with that description and dealing of satan set downe in the Apocalypse ; and tell me who will not conclude , but that it was the diuel himselfe metaphorically set foorth by the serpent that tempted Euah . And in consideration hereof , he is there purposely called not simply a serpent , but that old serpent : which name it selfe is afterwards exegetically expounded by the diuel and satan , who deceiued the world , and was a murtherer from the beginning . Philologus . If it was no serpent ( as you say ) but the verie diuell himselfe that tempted Euah : why then is he not called by his proper name in some part of the historie concerning that action . Orthodoxus . It was vndoubtedly the diuell himselfe that tempted Euah : whose name ( saith Tremellius and others ) was purposely concealed by Moses , in an especiall regard of the simplicitie and rudenes , of that present people , to whose slēder capacities he sets foorth the matter in forme of a Tragedie : producing the Lord , the serpent , the man , and the woman , as actors therein , to the end our weake vnderstandings might be the more sensibly enformed concerning that matter . Howbeit , because in the historie of the creation there is no perticular mention of Angels or spirits : therefore the proper name of the diuel is heere especially concealed , and himselfe is metaphorically described vnder the serpent , least , they ( hearing in that action , of some spirituall substance vnheard off before ) might happily haue a window set open to prophane curiositie ; and so , either fall into grosse Idolatrie , or runne with the Maniches , into the palpable errour concerning two sundry beginnings , or creators of things . By all the premises then it is verie apparant , that ( notwithstanding the contrary opinions of some ) I should commit no absurditie at all , in auouching that Satan himselfe alone gaue the onset vpon Euah : hauing some speciall reasons , the testimonies of fathers , yea , and the opinion also it selfe verie authentically priuileged in our English church by publike authoritie . Lycanthropus . Notwithstanding your auctorities and reasons whatsoeuer , I will neuer be perswaded that the diuell alone did set vpon Euah . Exorcistes . And surely ( whether the diuell alone or not ) I will neuer beleeue it was the serpent alone that did it : both , because serpents and snakes could neuer properly speake , and for that the enimitie which was put betweene them two and their seed , may not possibly be vnderstood of the snake and her broode . Orthodoxus . The common receiued opinion is , that it was the diuell and serpent together : whereunto also I doe willingly subscribe : Partly , in an especiall regard of two other places of Scripture , which seeme to encline to that sense : and partly also , for that ( in the originall ) the very name of the serpent importeth so much , she being called , nachash , of nachash , or nichesh , that is , to diuine , or to charme , Signifying thereby , that the diuell ( according to the very purport of the name it selfe ) did ( as it were ) so bewitch , and so charme the serpent , as that ( through his craftie suggestion ) she was very well able to propound such a diuination or soothsaying , as did presently circumuent and deceaue our graundmother Euah . But goe to , let it be graunted that the diuell and the serpent together gaue the onset vpon Euah : & now tell me in what maner they wrought ? Lycanthropus . In this manner . First , the diuell he entred essentially into the serpent : and then after , he vsed the serpents toong , to set the temptation an end . Orthodoxus . But , how doe you certainely know that the diuell did essentially enter into the serpent ? Lycanthropus . How doe I know it ? euen by the apparant effects thereof : for , how came it to passe that the serpent did speakevnto Euah ? Orthodoxus . Could not the diuell apply the serpents toong to his purpose ; vnlesse he did first essentially enter into her ? Lycanthropus . No , how is it possible he should ? Orthodoxus . Why ? how doth a minstrill make his pipes to sound what he please ? doth he essentially creepe first into the bagge it selfe , and then tune the pipes to his purpose : or doth he only dispose the sound by his breath ? Philologus . What , how now Lycanthropus ? I beleeue you haue heard such a fit of mirth , as if you daunce after the same but a while : your opinion concerning the essentiall assuming of bodies will be driuen out of doores . Lycanthropus . Not so , For howsoeuer a minstrill might ( by his breath alone ) be able to cause the pipes to squeake , yet could he neuer distinguish the notes vnlesse with his fingers he kept the seuerall stoppes : howbeit , spirits and diuels are incorporall creatures , hauing neither fingers nor hands , nor any member else to frame the words . Orthodoxus . Well then , thus much yet you confesse by the way , that a minstrill by his onely breath may cause the instrument to giue foorth some sound : howsoeuer vnable to distinguish the tunes . Goe to , what say you to the trumpeter : he vseth no helpe of any one member at all to distinguish the sounds saue only his breath : and yet , only therewith he causeth so certaine a sound , as euery one that heares him , can tell what is played or sounded . Now then , if it be possible for a reasonable man , thus to applie a dead instrument at his pleasure to serue his turne without any essentiall creeping into it : why should it be deemed impossible for an intellectuall power or diuell , to apply to his purpose the toonge of his liuing instrument , ( the serpent I meane ) in the tempting of Euah , without any essentiall entring into her at all ? And therefore , let vs heare other reasons of more waighty importance or otherwise , put an end to this present discourse , Lycanthropus . The Angell he assumed essentially the body of Baalams Asse , and did sensibly speake in that selfe same body : therefore , spirits and diuels they can also assume essentially such naturall bodies , and worke in them the like naturall actions . Orthodoxus . How know you it was an Angell that spake in the Asse ? Exorcistes . There needs no manner of doubt to be made thereof : for Lyra , Martyr , Zanchius , Casmannus and many other besides doe iointly affirme it . Orthodoxus . Because those learned men do iointly affirme it , you therefore imagine their said affirmation to be such a threefold cord as cannot possibly be pulled a sunder . We are not sworn vnto men , but vnto the infallible truth of lesus Christ : and therefore ( seeing no one warrant for that their affirmation ) I am greatly induced to doubt of the truth thereof . The reasons why I differ from them , are these . First , by the very text it is plaine , that the Lord himselfe he opened the mouth of the asse . Secondly , Moses ( in that place ) putteth not downe the word Elohim , which although it signifies God , yet sometimes also it is vsed for Angels : but he hath only the word Iehouah there , which word ( throughout the scriptures ) is neuer attributed to any but the Lord himselfe . And therefore , sith the text doth auouch that only Iehouah himselfe did open the mouth of the Asse : I see not how any man should dare to affirme that the same was done by the Angel. Besides that , the very coherence and course of the historie doth plainely conclude that the Angell ( spoken of there ) could not possible do it in such sort as your selfe doth imagine . For , that Angell ( standing thrise in the way with a sword drawne in his hand , to encounter with Balaam who rode on the asse . ) could not essentially speake in the Asse , and essentially also stand in the way , at one , and the selfe-same instant : vnlesse haplie you imagine that the Angels they haue a peculiar power to be in sundrie places at once . And therefore ( whatsoeuer your selfe , or those learned men may affirme to the contrarie ) I perceiue not as yet , how it should be an Angell that spake in the Asse : but rather the Lord himselfe by an immediate power , by which power he opened also the eies of Balaam himselfe , before the face of the Angel. Exorcistes . Though the Lord himselfe was the efficient cause of opening the Asses mouth , yet might he effect that worke by the Angels meanes : and so the Angell ( notwithstanding all this ) he might ministeriallie speake in the Asse . Orthodoxus . What the Lord might haue done therein , we all do know : what he certeinly did therein , neither you your selfe nor any are able to say . In like maner , the Lord might also by the Angels meanes haue opened the eies of ▪ Balaam : but he did not that , as the text doth plainely declare , & therefore nether the other . Besides this , the Lord ( at that verie instant ) did otherwaies imploy the Angell three seuerall times in the way , with a sword drawne in his hand to encounter with Balaam : and therefore , hee would not vse his ministerie this waies which your selfe doth imagine , neither could the Angell at that instant time , be essentially inherent in the Asses belly , vnlesse haplie you do hold an vbiquity in Angels , which onely is proper to God. But , be it granted that the Lord , ( not immediately ) but by meanes of the Angell did speake in the Asse : and then , do tell me withall , how and after what sort the Angell effected that speech . Lycanthropus . Euen by entring essentially , first into the verie essence of the Asses body : and then next , by disposing and tempring her toong to that speciall purpose . Orthodoxus . If you confidently hold that the Angell did essentially enter into the verie essence of the Asses bodie : then do you likewise conclude that the Angell also was essentially conuerted into the Asse , and that Baalam withall did ride , and gallop , and spurre , and strike , and braule with the Angell all the while he was vpon the Asses backe , which were absurd to imagine . But tell me Lycanthropus , are you still in this minde , that the Angels cannot possiblie speake by the toong of a brute beast : vnlesse they be before essentially inherent within their bellies ? Lycanthropus . So do I verily thinke . Neither may we imagine that the Asse herselfe could possiblie either frame , or vnderstand such a sensible speech as was vttered there ; because a reasonable speech cannot possiblie be framed or vnderstood of any but of a minde hauing vnderstanding & reason . Whereupon it foloweth necessarily , that the selfesame speech ( being so sensible and reasonable ) could not possiblie be framed by the Asse : but by the Angell essentially inherent within the Asse . Orthodoxus . Well , sith you will needes transferre this miraculous and immediate worke from the Lord himselfe to the meanes , I meane , to the ministerie of the Angell as your selfe doth suppose : Let it be freely graunted that the Angell ( indeed ) did frame that sensible speech in the mouth of the senslesse Asse , as by a fit instrument appointed of God for that speciall purpose : and yet this I auouch withall , that the Angell did not ministerially effect that sensible speech by any such essentiall insinuation as your selfe doth imagine : but by an onely effectuall operation , as I haue shewed before . Briefly , this sensible speech ( if you will needes attribute the same to the Angell ) might , and was also effectiuely accomplished by some powerfull operation of the Angell , without any such needlesse essentiall entrance into the Asse : as by the simile of a minstrill or trumpeter we did illustrate before . And heereunto also accordeth the iudgement of Lyra : whom your selfe aleadged of late , saying . Those sensible words were framed , neither by the Asse alone , nor by the Angel himselfe essentially inherent within the Asse : but by an effectuall operation or power of the Angell , directing and disposing the toong of the Asse to deliuer such sensible speech , for the further confusion of Baalam himselfe . And therefore , this reason ( you see ) is of little , or no force at all : to fortifie your fond opinion of the diuell his essentiall assuming of true naturall bodies . Exorcistes . Though this place doth not directly proue , that the diuels may assume and essentially enter into a true naturall body , because no such thing is apparant in this action of the Angel , from whence the proofe it selfe should be brought : yet doth it plainely conclude , that the diuel ( by meanes of a true naturall body ) may deliuer a sensible speech , because some such thing we find here effected by the good Angel of God. Orthodoxus . If I should tie you strictly to the words of the text , you could find no such speech deliuered by the Angel at al , but only by the immediate power of the Lord , who himselfe alone , did open the mouth of the asse , as was shewed before . Howbeit , you your selfe ( foysting in here by the way this cunning conceite ) do couertly goe about ( I perceiue ) to alter the state of our question which consisteth onely of the diuel his essentiall assuming and entring into bodies . Pretermitting therefore to discourse here , of the diuel his sensible speaking by the meanes of a true naturall body vntil we come to entreate of actuall possession : Do now say what you can for the question in hand , or presently giue ouer the same . Lycanthropus . Satan he essentially assumed the dead body of Samuel departed , yea and appeared and spake sensibly in that selfesame body : therefore spirits and diuels they can also assume to themselues some naturall bodies , and performe in them such natural actions . Philologus . Well said Lycanthropus , this argument I verely suppose , will hold Maister Orthodoxus very hard to his pinnes . Those other before were drawen from the good angels of God , who are able to do more then the diuels by much : and therefore , no sound reason may be concluded from them to the diuels , who wanting like priuiledges , are also far vnequal to them in wisedome and power . But , this argument which you make now from the person of satan himselfe I beleeue is a toucher , and such a one as is able to driue Maister Orthodoxus to al his shifts . Pneumatomachus . Beleeue me sir , it is a soaker in deed : and therefore , what say you vnto it ? Orthodoxus . Beeing such a toucher as Philologus affirmeth ; I would not willingly touch it , for feare of being defiled with the follie thereof . And therefore ( letting it lie soaking a while in the suddes of your idle conceites til the maine force thereof be wasted away with the wetting ) I doe here tel you by the way for an answere : It is generally and iudicially determined by the whole church of God , yea and the marginall note in your bible doth likewise auouch , that it was not Samuel himselfe that appeared , but the diuel forsooth in Samuels likenesse . Which being certeinely so , do now tel me what substantiall consequent can possibly arise from your antecedent , it beeing so false and vnsound ? Lycanthropus . Let the church and marginall notes conclude what they please : I haue the plaine text on my side which saith it was Samuel , and vnto that wil I stick . Orthodoxus . You say you wil stick to the text . Very wel said , hold you fast to the words of the text : and then tel me which way you wil proue it the diuel himselfe essentially in Samuels body who appeared to Saul ? There is no mention of the diuel in all that story : neither doth the text say it was Samuels body , but Samuel himselfe that appeared . Exorcistes . Though the diuel be not nominally exprest in the story , yet there be many things in the story it self which do implicatiuely vnfold his nature vnto vs , and which can haue relation to none but himselfe . Namely , first the Lord hauing refused before to giue answere to Saul by liuing Prophets : it is vnlikely he would answere him now by the dead , hauing especially forbidden the same by his word . And therefore , not Samuel himselfe : but the diuel in Samuels body appeared to Saul . Againe , he that appeared did suffer himselfe to be worshipped of Saul , which thing neither Samuel , nor any good Angel in heauen would haue permitted , and therefore it was the diuel in Samuels body . Moreouer he which appeared told Saul that , the next day ( being slaine ) he should be with him : but Saul was a reprobate , and could not be with Samuel in heauen , and therefore by all the premisses it is very apparant that it could not be Samuel himselfe , but must needs be the diuel in Samuels body who appeared to Saul . Orthodoxus . As though , because some things in the storie are hardly correspondent to Samuel : therefore forsooth it must needes be the Diuel and none other . There be as many other things in that storie which at no hand may be applied to the Diuel , but doe more fitly accord vnto Samuel : and yet dare I not from thence , so confidently conclude , that therefore it was Samuel himselfe that appeered . As first , the scriptures throughout that whole storie doe say it was Samuel himselfe , not the Diuel in Samuels bodie : but if it were not Samuel in deede , the text should report an vntruth , and offer great iniurie to Samuel in naming the Diuel so oft by his name . Againe , he that appeered , complaines vnto Saul for being wakened : but Diuels ( being spirits ) doe neuer sleepe , and therefore not the Diuel , but Samuel himselfe appeered to Saul . Againe , he that appeered , did truly prophesie the death of Saul and his sonnes the very next day : but this the Diuel could not doe , he hauing no sound foreknowledge of things : neither would he haue done it , for he is a lier and the father of lying , and therefore , not the Diuel but Samuel himselfe did appeere . Briefly , he that appeered , tolde such a tale vnto Saul , as the Diuel himselfe ( vnlesse he were mad , or had purposed vtterly to ouerthrowe his owne kingdome ) would neuer haue told : and therefore , by all the premisses it is very apparant that it was not the Diuel , but must needes be Samuel that appeered to Saul . Exorcistes . Notwithstanding all this , some of the old fathers suppose it was the Diuel that appeered to Saul . Orthodoxus . They doe so : but let them , or some of you shew me how he appeered to Saul ? Lycanthropus . He appeered essentially in Samuels bodie . Orthodoxus . The text declareth no such thing at all : and it tels vs plainly , it was Samuel himselfe , not the Diuel in Samuels bodie . Lycanthropus . You your selfe alledged euen now , the consent of the Church and the marginall note , to prooue it the Diuel in Samuels likenes . Orthodoxus . The likenes of a thing is not the thing it selfe : and therefore , if it was the Diuel , only in the likenes of Samuel , then not the Diuel essentially in Samuel his bodie . And so , this example ( you see ) concludeth no essentiall assuming of bodies by either spirites or Diuels : which was the very maine point for the which you produced the same . Lycanthropus . Howsoeuer you presse me with the sway of reason , I doe yet confidently hold it to be the very diuel himselfe in Samuels body . Orthodoxus . I wonder you wil be so confident in impossibilities . For Samuel he died in the yeere of the worlds creation , three thousand , sixty , eight , and Saul he was slaine in the yeere three thousand and seauenty : so that there were ful two yeeres and better betweene Samuels death , and these desperate dealings of Saul . Now then , if Lazarus body ( lying but foure daies dead in the graue ) was subiect to stinking : the body of Samuel lying dead three hundred and thirty daies at the least , must much more be subiect to corruption and rottennesse . And therefore , how is it possible the diuel should essentially assume to himselfe the bodie of Samuell : it being before consumde in the earth ? Surely , this your opinion as it auoucheth a resurrection of bodies before the generall iudgement : so it ascribes to the diuell an absolute power of raising dead bodies which onely is proper to God as was shewed before , and the marginall note may tell you withall , that the diuell hath no power ouer the dead . Besides that , if it were Samuels body in deed : then it was so either with , or against the Lords will. Against the Lords will it could not be , because he is omnipotent , and able euen to tread downe satan vnder our feete : and with his will , it would neuer be , for it is vnlikely the Lord should suffer the body of so blessed a Saint , to be defiled at all by the diuell especially after his death . Moreouer , how should the death of the godly be iustly termed that long lasting sleepe wherein ( by the ordinance of God ) their bodies must rest till the generall iudgement : if the diuell hath power to awaken , and to raise them vp at his pleasure ? yea , and how can the faith of the godly ( concerning the continuance of their bodies in the dust of the earth ) be a certaine faith : if the diuell can essentially assume their said bodies from the earth at his pleasure : Briefly how is it certaine that death doth dissolue our bodies from s●ne and corruption , and that the blessed which die in the Lord do cease from their labours : if the diuel hath power to raise vp our bodies at pleasure , and can cause them to labour afresh , and vse them as fit instruments in his diuellish and sinfull proceedings ? And therefore doe cease for shame , to hold any longer that it was the diuell in Samuels body who appeared to Saul . Lycanthropus . If it was not the very true and essentiall body of Samuell in deed : what was it I pray you that appeared to Saul ? Orthodoxus . I will tell you what some fathers affirme concerning this matter . lesus Syrach , lustinus Martyr , Tertullian , Ambrose , and Ierome they do euery of them very confidently conclude that it was not the very true body of Samuell in deed which appeared to Saul : but onely a meere phantasie , deceite and illusion of satan , for the better effecting of his tyrannous purpose intended to Saul , whom he knew the Lord had reiected . Yea , the very decretals also , doe flatly determine , that it was not Samuels body at all : but some ghost or fantasie , deceitfully offered to Saule by satan his diuellish deuise . There be others againe who doe as considently hold that it was Samuell himselfe miraculously raised vp by the power of God , of very purpose to intercept the witches entent ; who went about to raise vp a diuell in Samuels likenesse , by such meanes to satisfie Saul his importunate and earnest desire . But this her purpose ( say they ) was preuented by God : who ( refusing to haue the truth of that accident deliuered by satan , ) did therefore extra ordinarily and miraculously raise vp Samuel , to discouer the truth of the matter to Saul . Briefly , there be others who doe verily thinke it was neither the diuell alone , nor Samuel alone , neither yet the diuell and Samuel together : nor any phantasie , ghost or other illusion of Satan , but a meere cosinage and a cosining tricke of the witch at Endor . Who ( pretending an absolute power to haue raised vp whomsoeuer Saul should haue named vnto her ) neither did , nor possible could cause any visible apparition at all : but onely iuggled with Saul him selfe , he being without , and she close in her Cel , or playing some legerdemaine at the least behinde a cloth , no sensible vision appearing at all to the King. Thus then , hauing briefely deliuered mens seuerall opinions concerning this point : you may deliberately conferre them with that which is spoken before , and thereupon imbrace which pleaseth you best . Pneumatomachus . Good sir ? giue vs your owne censure concerning these sundrie opinions of men . Orthodoxus . I neither dare , nor will vndertake the censuring of anie . Onely , if you simplie desire to heare what my selfe ( in an onely regard of our question ) do esteeme of their iudgements : then this I must tell you concerning the first opinion . Namely , that ( howsoeuer it be granted for truth ) it serues not your turne ; for , it denies the apparition to be Samuell in deed , but rather a meere illusion of Satan . Touching the second , it is that ( you know ) which I argue against : and therefore ( by their leaues ) I dissent from the same , till that which I haue said , be considerately answered . As for the last , howsoeuer it be new , and therefore may haply seeme strange vnto some , yet if your selues ( without preiudice , and with a single respect to the truth ) would but deliberately peruse that priuileged discourse to the full : you might happily perceiue it a verie probable opinion , how pregnant soeuer in proofe . Philologus . Nay , that opinion I disclaime aboue all the rest , for it denieth there was any apparition at all : whereas the text saith plainely that Saul knew it was Samuell , and bowed himselfe . Is it likelie that Saul would bowe vnto nothing ? Orthodoxus . He bowed to as much as he sawe , which was nothing at all : as may easely appeere if you but carefully examine the confused conference betweene him and the Witch . For saith shee ( being labouring alone in her Cell , ) oh , thou hast surely deceiued me , for thou art Saul : which she might and did know verie well , howsoeuer she dissembled the same for the present . Well , go to ( saith Saul ) be not afraid : for what seest thou ? As if he should say , I my selfe do see nothing as yet , that thou needest to feare . O yes saith the Witch , I see Gods ascending vp out of the earth : as though she had brought vp a number of dead saints . I do not yet behold any saith Saul : but go to , what fashion is he of , for I my selfe see no fashion of any appearance : Yes ( saith the Witch ) an old man commeth vp lapt in a mantell . As though either Samuel had beene buried before in his mantel : or the diuell he had had his Weauers and Tailers at hand to haue wrought him a new one vpon the sodaine . Well , nowe ( saith the text ) Saul knew it was Samuel : that is ( by this her description ) he thought Samuel had appeared to her , although he sawe nothing himselfe , and thereupon he bowed to a phantasied Samuel . Lycanthropus . But sir ? if nothing appeared in truth , how then was the conference afterwards performed to Saul ? Orthodoxus . That was cunningly deliuered by the Witch alone in her Cell , she being a cunning Ventriloquist , as all Pythonistes are : who can very hideously speake in the bottome of their bellies with an hollow counterfeit voice , and therein by practise she was verie expert . Philologus . Lycanthropus ? we verily thought this last reason would haue striken all dead : but now being come to the rifling ) I perceiue it is not woorth a rush . Beleeue me , I wot not what to say in the matter . Lycanthropus . Neither do I my selfe I assure thee . Orthodoxus . Well then , hauing answered your arguments concerning the diuell his essentiall assuming of bodies : Let vs now heare your seuerall authorities if you haue any . Lycanthropus . I haue authorities some . Howbeit , either such as are answered before : or such as doe but barely propound without any proofe : or such at the least as your selfe by your subtile newe coined distinction of essentially and effectiuely , will easily shift ouer . And therefore , I had as leaue they lay still : as rise vp and fall . Orthodoxus . Let them rise vp , or lie still at your pleasure for me . Howbeit , to the end your selfe and the rest do not vniustlie surmize that I seeke to shift ouer your forces by subtile distinctions , yea , and those also , such as I haue newly coined my selfe : I am therefore verie well willing the maister of sentences determine this point if it please you to heare him , and so may you see , the distinction is not new , but renued . Exorcistes . You shall doe vs all a very great fauour therein . Orthodoxus . Marke then , and you shall heare him at large . This also saith he , is woorthie due consideration : namely , Whether spirites and Diuels corporal or incorporal , doe substantially enter into the bodies of men , and essentially slip into their mindes : or whether only they are therefore said to enter into men , for that ( by the permission of God ) they doe exercise in them , the force and effect of their malice by oppressing and vexing them , or by haling them headlong into sinne at their pleasures . That they enter into men , and ( being expelled perforce ) goe out of them againe , the Gospel doth plainly declare : affirming , that Diuels ( being entred into some ) were cast forth by our Sauiour Christ. Howbeit , whether they entred into them substantially , or rather , were said to be in them effectiuely , there lieth the point , and the same is not yet apparant vnto vs. Gennadius entreating hereof , saith thus . We beleeue not that the Diuels by an effectual operation , doe substantially or essentially enter into the minde : but rather , by an effectual application , and by a violent oppression are neerely vnited vnto them . For , essentially to slip into the mind , is onely possible for him who alone created the minde : who ( subsisting of his owne nature , and being also incorporal ) is capable alone of his creature . Loe hereby ( saith he ) is insinuated vnto vs , that serpents and Diuels doe not essentially slip or enter into the mindes of men . Beda in like manner , vpon that in the Actes , where Peter said to Ananias , why hath Satan filled thy hart , writeth thus : It would be throughly considered that nothing can replenish or fill vp the minde of a man substantially , saue only the creating Trinitie , who ( according to the operation and instinct of his owne will ) doth alone replenish , and satisfie the minde with all things created . Howbeit , Satan also , he filleth the hart of a man , not by entring substantially into the man , or into any his senses , neither yet by insinuating himselfe essentially into his hart : for that power , ( if any such be ) appertaineth only to God : but , by craftie and fraudulent guile , he draweth the minde ( through a malitious effect , and by his sugred charmes ) into a whirlepoole of euils , and by that meanes he filleth the hart . Thus farre he . Wherein you may plainly perceiue , that this Distinction was not newly coyned by me , but concluded of old : and that also I auouch no more in this matter , then others haue affirmed before me . Philologus . Beleeue me sir , this iumpeth in euery respect so patte with your proper opinion : as a man might iustly imagine the one had begotten the other . But , are there any moe of this mind ? Orthodoxus . Yea , Chrysostome , he saith , the Diuel compelleth not by force , nor essentially toucheth any , but saith only , cast downe thy selfe backward . For suggest he may , but compell he cannot . And therefore saith Lyra , the Diuel he is called a deafe and a dumbe spirit : not formally , but effectiuely , in that by a powerfull operation , he maketh men deafe and dumbe . For , Torment or vengeance saith Musculus , is only in Gods hand , and not in the hand of the Diuel . The Diuel hath in deede a ministerie : but no arbitrarie power . Now then , the ministerie , it consists not of an absolute auctoritie : but of a subiected seruitude . And albeit saith Gregorie , the depraued will of Satan be euer vniust , yet his deputed power is neuer vniust : because , although he hath a will of himselfe , yet hath he his power onely from God. And therefore whatsoeuer he desireth to worke vniustly , that ( if at any time he effect it ) God permitteth most iustly . So then the Diuel ought neuer to be vniustly feared : because he is vnable any further to deale then he himselfe is permitted . Briefly , Hermes Trismegistus very confidently auoucheth , that , an humane soule cannot receiue any other then an humane bodie : neither yet can it light into a bodie that wanteth reason of minde . From whence we may argue thus . If an humane soule be capable only of an humane bodie : then also an humane bodie is capable only of an humane soule , and so by consequence vncapable of an essentiall Diuel : but the first is true , by Trismegistus his iudgement , and therefore also the latter . And in very deed ( seeing Satans assaults are spirituall ) why should we imagine ( saith Skot ) that the Diuel who is a spirit ( and therefore inuisible and insensible ) can be sensibly seene , knowen , perceiued or felt essentially of a naturall man ? Or that he should ( contrarie to his nature ) become corporal : being by Gods appointment , ordeined and created to a spirituall proportion ? They that doe thus vnderstand things spoken of the Diuel according onely to the literal sense ; they may as well conclude , that trees ( in times past ) did call a parlament , speake one to another , and choose them a king by mutuall consent . Thus then , these and many others ( you see ) doe iointly conclude concerning this point . Physiologus . These are sufficient to satisfie such as are not wilfully wedded to their willes . Pneumatomachus . Surely , for my owne part , I rest fully ●atisfied . Philologus . And for my part also I am quite out of doubt . But Lycanthropus , you told Pneumatomachus & me ( in the beginning of this our present discourse ) that , if this argument ( taken from the diuel his assuming of bodies ) would not suffice to proue an essentiall possession of diuels : you had another in store that would trouble Maister Orthodoxus more then this doth , by a thousand fold . It were good you propounded the same . Orthodoxus . Very true . And therefore , if you imagine you haue something in store which may make more for your purpose : propound it and spare not . Lycanthropus . This then it is . Spirits and diuels they can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall body : and therefore they can also essentially enter into the possessed mans body . Orthodoxus . What ? are you fled on the suddaine from assuming of bodies , to the transforming of bodies ? your store then I perceiue is not great , and it seemes you are almost drawen dry . Howbeit , because the handling of this point will craue a large discourse : Let vs therefore breake off for the present . And hauing with some small pittance refreshed our selues : then wil we conferre hereof to the full til dinner be readie , if you like of the offer . Pneumatomachus . Sir , we like whatsoeuer you feele best for your selfe , and therefore respect your owne health : and we three in the meane time will repaire to our Innes : and after will meet you afresh . Orthodoxus . Nay surely , as we haue iointly ioyned together in spirituall repast : so will we not sunder our selues , in our corporall sustenance all the while our controuersie continueth . And therefore , if you doe like the thinne diet of schollers ; let vs in Gods name , goe all together . Philologus . It is much to troublesome vnto you and chargeable both : but , sith you wil haue it so , we will all iontly attend on your person . Orthodoxus . Let vs then arise and depart . The end of the fourth Dialogue . The fifth Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . Whether Spirits and Diuels can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall bodie ? And how those places of Scripture are to be taken , which manie produce for that purpose ? The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOMACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Orthodoxus . SIth nature ( by the good blessing of God ) is something refreshed , let vs now ( for a while ) keepe close in my parlour , with ful purpose to proceede in our conference till dinner be ready : and then after , walke forth in the aire , to recreate our spirits . Physiologus . With very good will : and therefore linger not the time , but , go an end in your purpose . Orthodoxus . Goe to then Lycanthropus : repeate your argument . Lycanthropus . I repeate it thus . Spirits and diuels , they can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall body : therefore , they can also essentially enter into the possessed mans body . Orthodoxus . Proue your antecedent . Lycanthropus . What sir ? do you flatly denie , that the diuell can essentially transforme himselfe into what bodie he please ? I am fully resolued to hold this point , whatsoeuer be said to the contrarie . Orthodoxus . Your vnreasonable resolution , is vnto vs no reasonable conclusion : neither is the question betweene vs , what you wil hold , but what you are able to prooue concerning this point . And albeit I doubt nothing at al , but that you ( for your owne part ) will hold verie much till it comes to the pinch : yet , we hope you will change your purpose , if once you be made to perceiue , that none but your selfe are of this opinion . Lycanthropus . Yes sir , all the world ( I am sure ) iumpes pat with me in this point : and verie certeine I am , I shall gaine your consent to the same in the end . Orthodoxus . Howsoeuer you seeme confident in the common consent of the world ; your gaine ( I assure you ) is not like to be great , by any such a supposed grant , as you haplie imagine from me . Lycanthropus . Will you not grant , that diuels may essentially transforme themselues into what bodies they please ? Physiologus . Master Orthodoxus ? let me answere this point if you please . Come on Lycanthropus , what is the thing you would haue granted vnto you ? Lycanthropus . Why this , namely , that diuels may essentially transforme themselues into a true naturall bodie . Physiologus . Such a grant , we may yeeld you at no hand , because , euen Philosophie her selfe is flat opposite to it : who will neuer admit any such a confused participation of essentiall formes . For , as essence it selfe is impartible , and vndeuidable , or rather a certaine incommunicable , and singular matter : so surely ( the essence and vnitie of things being preserued intier ) essentiall formes , they cannot possiblie be cnumōicated , transferred , or passed ouer from that substance it selfe whereof they are formes , into any other substance or matter , to giue the same also , an essentiall forme . Because , not onely the constituting , forming , or framing : but euen also , the destruction of substances , doth essentially arise from the forme it selfe . And looke whereunto there is giuen a forme conuenient , and proportionable to one onely essence : thereunto also must necessarily be giuen , an vndoubted true essence . Because , a proper forme is the principall part of essence . yea , ( and as some learned Philosophers doe flatly affirme ) it is the whole essence or nature of the thing it selfe . And therefore if spirits and diuels be ( at any time ) essentially transformed into men : then do they foorthwith cease ( for that time ) to be spirits and diuels , and may truely be said to be men . Lycanthropus . I doe not well conceiue your meaning . Physiologus . I will further explaine it thus . If there be any such essentiall transforming of spirits and diuels into men , as your selfe doth imagine : then vndoubtedly , that selfe same essentiall transformation , it is , either according to the body alone , or according to the body and soule together . If , according to the body alone , then that selfe same transformed body , it should ( at one , and the selfe same time ) become , both the body of a man , and the body of a diuell : which were to to absurde to imagine . If , according to the body and soule together , then either the whole man ( both body & soule ) must be essentially transformed into the very essence and nature of a diuell : or , the diuell , he must needes be essentially transformed into the very naturall body and soule of a man at the least , which none but mad-men will euer affirme . Againe , if that essentiall transformation be effected according to the body alone , then , howsoeuer that selfe same body be not ( for the present ) the body of a man , but is wholy transformed into the very essence and nature of a diuell : yet , the soule of that man must either be forced to forsake his owne body , and so bring present death to the body it selfe , because death , is nothing else but the dissolution of soule and bodie ; or else , the same soule , it must necessarily passe from out of it owne body , into the very essence of a diuell , and so by consequence , there must needes be a meere confusion of spirituall substances : or , two essentiall formes in one and the selfe same body at once , which were absurde to auouch , and vtterly impossible by any created power to be euer effected . Lycanthropus . Let Phylosophie be opposite , or what she will , very certaine I am , the diuell can essentially transforme him selfe into any true naturall body . Physiologus . What man , will you ( in deed ) oppose your selfe to true Phylosophie ? then I perceiue , you respect not at all the operations and powers of nature . But goe to , let master Orthodoxus heare what one reason you haue ( in true diuinitie ) to mannage your said resolution . Lycanthropus . What one reason quoth you ? why man , the diuell , he can essentially transforme him selfe into an Angell of light : therefore , how much more into any true naturall body ? Orthodoxus . You are mightily mis-led herein , by mistaking the word metaschemarizetai : That is to say , he transmuted , transfashioned , transfigured , transformed , or metamorphozed him selfe into an angel of light . Wherin the Apostle purposeth nothing lesse , then to proue that the diuell is really , essentially , or substantially incorporated or changed into an Angell of light : for then , he could ( in deed and in truth ) be no longer a diuell , but must necessarily become ( in deed ) an Angell of light . Howbeit , the Apostle he laboreth ( by that selfe same word ) to shadow forth vnto vs after a sort , the wylie practizes , and cunning proceedings of satan . Who , when he entendeth most deepely to circumuent and deceaue the sonnes of men : then he pretendeth the most religious , and the holiest shewes of all . Exposing in all outward appearance , the holy affections , sinceritie , and zeale of the holiest Angels of light . For , vnlesse the malignitie of satan be sleightly and cunningly couered his deceaueable purpose , is seldome , or neuer effected , This , ( I assure you ) is the very true naturall sense of the Apostles speach . Exorcistes . Men may surmize a sense to them selues , and therewithall , may writhe the Scriptures which way they lust , like a nose of waxe . We sticke fast to the plaine words of the text , which doe tell vs plainely , that satan is transformed into an Angell of light . Orthodoxus . Barren braind fellowes ( hauing nought to say for themselues ) they eftsoones are enforced to writhe the scriptures like a nose of wax , for saluing their credites . As for my selfe , I seeke no windings or turnings at all , but ( by Gods grace ) am ready so soundly to establish the sence I haue giuen : as your selfe ( with all your endeuour ) shall neuer be able to wrench or to writhe the same from our purpose , the breadth of one haire . And herein ( by the way ) I must throughly aduise you of the Apostles maine scope concerning that scripture : which was , to display the crafty preposterous packings of those counterfeite Apostles , who labored to bring the Apostle his ministery into publike contempt among the Corinthians . And this they endeuoured to do , by preaching freely among the Corinthians without any maintenance at all . Entending thereby ( if Paul likewise continued his former course , of preaching freely among them ) either to weary him out quite for want of maintenance : or , to make his ministerie odious among them at least , if ( being driuen by necessitie ) he should afterwards receiue a maintenance from them , for the necessary supplie of his present wants . The Apostle ( perceiuisg this their pestilent purpose ) he laboureth very carefully with his owne hands , and ( receiuing the supply of his wants from other Churches ) he accepteth of the Corinthians , no pennie maintenance . Not because he loued them not , but for that he would cut away occasion from those false Apostles who desired occasion : that they might be found like vnto him , in that wherein they reioice . As if he should say , these false Apostles who preach freely among you , they goe about ( by a wonderfull shew of holines ) to insinuate themselues into your fauours : and to discredit my ministerie by what meanes they may . Notwithstanding ( howsoeuer they dissemble their diuelish pretence ) this I dare shew you for certaine , that they are ( in deed ) but deceiueable workers , and do cunningly transforme themselues into the Apostles of Christ , Neither , let this thing seeme strange in your eies , for Satan their master , he also is transformed into an Angell of light : and therefore , no maruell at all though his ministers do transforme themselues , as though they were the minist●●● of righteousnes . This ( I assure you ) is the Apostles maine purpose , and the verie apt coherence of all his speach : from whence I doe reason thus : Satan is so transformed into an Angel of light , as his ministers are transformed into the Apostles of Christ. But , his ministers are not essentially transformed into the Apostles of Christ : therefore , neither is Satan essentially transformed into an Angel of light . Exorcistes . Howsoeuer you argue the case , we cleaue fast to the words of the text : which flatly auoucheth vnto vs the transformation of Satan . Orthodoxus . Who euer denied him a transformation ? the question is onely about the manner thereof . You hold that Satan is essentially transformed : and I affirme that he is onely transformed effectiuely . Now , whether of both haue the truth on their side , that will better appeare by the conference of this one , with some other places of scripture , where the selfe same word ( or a word to the like effect ) is also vsed . As for example . The Euangelist he saith that Christ in the mount , was transfigured among his Disciples : must we hereupon ( in an onely regard of that word ) verie absurdly and grossely imagine that Christ was essentially changed into some other substance or nature ? No , but that he was rather made there most resplendent in glorie . Againe , the Apostle forbids the Romanes to fashion themselues to this world : and wils them withall , to be transformed . But how , essentially into any other substance , or naturall being ? Nay not so , but effectiuely into some other more sacred qualities , by the renouation of their inward mind . Againe , we behold ( saith he ) in a mirrour , the glorie of the Lord with open face : and are transformed into the same image from glorie to glorie , as by the spirit of the Lord. Wherein , his meaning is not , that we are essentially transformed into the verie image of God : for , so should he verie shrewdly confirme that folly of the family of loue , which holdeth that men are deified in God , and that God also , is hominified in men . But his purpose is , that we ( by the operation of the holy spirit ) should proceed and grow ( by degrees ) from glorie to glorie , vntill we be truely conformed vnto the similitude of that same glorious image of God wherein we were first created . Neither is the particle ( as ) purposely put downe by Paul , to note the improprietie : but rather , to expresse vnto vs the maner of that transformation , as if he should say thus . Euen as in times past , Moses his face ( through that cōference which he had with the Lord in the mount ) became resplendent in glorie , like to the shining of a glasse by the obiect of the sunne : so surely , our minds also , they are affected euerie day with secret grothes of grace , and doe proceed from glorie to glorie , through the inward familiaritie of the holy Ghost , who worketh inuisibly in euerie of vs , that selfesame glorie , which in processe of time , will be made apparantly euident . Briefly , in another place , and to verie like purpose , he vseth the selfesame word , saying thus . Now , these things ( brethren ) I haue transferred , or figuratiuely put ouer to my selfe and Apollos . Not meaning that he and Apollos were essentially transformed into the verie substance of those schismaticall teachers who troubled the Church of Corinth : but , that be only ( concealing the schismalikes names ) did figuratiuely apply and put vpon himselfe and Apollos , their persons rather : that so lie might the more in offensiuely censure their schismaticall courses . Now then , by all these places it is more then apparant , that the words in the text cannot possibly conclude any essentiall transforming of Satan , into an Angel of light . Lycanthropus . Conclude what you please : yet will I at no hand be perswaded , but that the diuell can essentially transforme himselfe into the verie substance of an Angell of light . Orthodoxus . Euen as readily ( I warrant you ) as the priest can transubstantiate bread and wine into the very naturall bodie and bloud of Christ. If you be able throughly to prooue this transformation of diuels , you may pleasure the papists with an vnanswerable argument for their popish transubstantiations : and surely , they should therein be highly beholding vnto you . But , vntil your selfe and they do sensiblie demonstrate vnto vs , how two substantiall formes may possiblie be inherent ( togither and at once ) in one and the selfesame subiect , and that also , without confusion of substances : say what you can for your matters , we will beleeue you alike . In the meane time , let vs heare some sounder reasons concerning this point : or put an end to our speech . Lycanthropus . Whether the reasons be sound , or vnsound , it makes no great matter . It hath beene taught for an infallible truth from age to age , that diuels can transforme themselues essentially into what substance they please : and therefore ( for my part ) I vnfeinedly beleeue and subscribe to the same . Orthodoxus . Antiquitie ( how gray-headed soeuer ) hath no authoritie at all to priviledge errour : and therefore , you are ouer rashlie to resolute in setling your faith vpon such an inueterate dottage . Physiologus . Maister Orthodoxus , do rest you a while , and let me argue this point a little . Come on Lycanthropus , you do beleeue ( you say ) that Diuels can transforme themselues into what substance they please : what is your reason hereof ? Lycanthropus . My reason is this . They can forme bodies : therefore also they can transforme bodies . To denie them an absolute power herein ; were to yeeld lesse vnto diuels , then we do vnto men . For a Taylour ( we see ) he is able of a peece of cloth , to forme a gowne : and able also to transforme the same into , either a cloake , or a coate . Physiologus . You haue forgot ( I perceiue ) what was taught you of late . Namely , that the worke of creation is onely proper to God , and beyond the power of diuel or angel : and yet now againe , you wil haue the diuel if not a creatour of substances , yet an Artist at least , very skilfull in forming and transforming of gownes and cloakes : which I beleeue would trouble both him and the Tailour , if they had neither cloath , nor other stuffe to forme them vpon . But , goe to , proue that the diuels are able , essentially to forme , or transforme true naturall bodies . Lycanthropus . I prooue it thus . The diuel was able ( by the Egiptian sorcerours ) to transforme their rods into serpents : and therefore , he is much more able to do the same by himselfe . Physiologus . Forbearing a while to answere directly the very point of your argument , I must tel you this by the way that ( through such an inconsiderate reasoning ) you dangerously make the diuel , a very free agent , in forming and transforming of bodies . Howbeit ( letting these ouersights slip ) doe tel me whether those your supposed serpents ( made by the sorcerours ) were true serpents in deede : or serpents onelie in outward appearance ? Philologus . They were true serpents no doubt . Physiologus . If serpents without doubt , as you say , then were they such , either necessarily : or contingently . Pneumatomachus . Nay , not contingently , but necessarily such : or no serpents at all . Physiologus . If necessarily serpents in deede , then , tel me whether they were such by a naturall : or supernaturall necessity ? Lycanthropus . What meane you by a naturall necessity ? Physiologus . By a naturall necessity , I do here vnderstand the necessary beginning or cause of motion and rest , in euery such naturall thing as nature it selfe is especially inherent in by it selfe alone , and not by accident . So that , this naturall necessity , is ( you see ) some certeine secret power , not perceiueable by sense , but by vnderstanding alone : yea , and the same is so throughly instructed of God by a secret instinct , as , it is able ( of it selfe ) to supply an essentiall being ( with other naturall faculties ) to euery corporall substance : whether element , stone , hearbe , tree , lyon , horse , egle , woolhe , man , beast , or any other like naturall essence . Now then , doe tel me whether they were true serpents in deed , by such a naturall necessity ? Lycanthropus . Yea , euen by that selfe same naturall necessity . Physiologus . Then vndoubtedly , they were such , either by the orderly or the vnorderly course of nature ? Lycanthropus . Such they were , euen by an orderly course of nature . Physiologus . Then did they also consist vpon true and orderly beginnigs : namely , vpon true matter , and forme . Lycanthropus . They consisted of true matter , and forme I warrant you . Physiologus . Doe you warrant me ? A wise man would euen blush for shame , to auouch such palpable and grose absurdities . Know you not , that the orderly course of nature in her ordinary producing of liuing creatures , is onely and altogether by generation ? And , dare you then thus boldly affirme , that a sory twig or rod of a tree , was such a true naturall matter , as that , from thence might possibly haue been produced some naturall serpent ; in any orderly course of nature ? Againe , could any true liuely forme of a naturall serpent , be possibly giuen to the twig of a tree : by any possible power of either angel , or diuel ? Indeed , the diuel , and those his Egyptian sorcerers ( if they had so much spare time at that present ( they might then I confesse ) haue cunningly carued or cut out from a peece of wood , some lineament all fashion , figure , proportion , or shape of serpents , and very skilfully haue cast the same into a serpentine colour : howbeit , such a formed kinde of serpents ( both for matter and forme ) had onelie beene artificiall , and accidentarie , but neither might that matter nor forme of theirs , haue truely beene said to be naturall . Lycanthropus . Let matter and forme be whatsoeuer it will : true serpents I am certeine they were . Physiologus . How certeine soeuer you are , they could not possiblie be true serpents indeed , in any orderly course of nature : as you haue hitherto heard . For then also they must necessarilie haue had their true matter and forme verie certeine within themselues : and the same also , very absolute and constant by nature . Euen as we see the selfesame matter and forme of a dogge , an horse , a bird , a man , or a serpent , which was at the first creation : the same continueth ( in an orderly course of nature ) certeine and constant now at this present , to the end of the world . But , these your supposed serpents , they had no such true matter and forme at all in themselues : and therefore no true serpents indeed , in any orderly course of nature . Lycanthropus . Then were they such in an vnorderly course of nature : for , true serpents I am sure they were . Physiologus . True serpents ( you saie ) you are sure they were , and yet can you not possiblie shew how they should be such , except ( as you now confesse ) by an vnorderly course of nature : which vnorderly course is nothing else in effect , but an errour in nature declining from the true matter and forme it selfe in producing her worke . Thus then , you conclude at vnwares , that they were no true serpents indeed , by any orderly course of nature : but , either miracles , or monsters in nature , preposterouslie , produced in an vnorderly course of nature it selfe . Howbeit , miracles you may at no hand auouch them to be : because neither sorcerer not diuell could euer worke miracles . And , euen in that very point also appeered the difference betweene Moses his serpent , and theirs : it being supernaturally effected by the miraculous power of God : theirs being subtilly exhibited by some craftie legerdemaine betweene them , and the diuell . Neither yet may you iustly affirme them any monsters in nature . For then ( howsoeuer nature her selfe had failed in producing the worke ) they should yet haue had in them naturally , their true matter and forme of true natural serpents which they neuer had : and therefore no monsters at all in nature . So then , sith those your supposed serpents could not possiblie be true serpents indeed , neither by any orderly nor vnorderly course of nature : it foloweth consequently , that they were not serpents by any naturall necessitie . Lycanthropus . Then were they such by some supernaturall necessitie . Physiologus . What meane you by that ? Lycanthropus . My meaning is , that they were formed true naturall serpents , by some supernaturall and secret worke of the diuell himselfe . Physiologus . You are groslie deceiued , for the diuell neuer had supernaturall power : neither could he euer haue formed true naturall serpents , by any supernaturall skill whatsoeuer . Because , a corporall substance ( such as true serpents are ) was neuer at any time so much subiected vnder the power of the diuell , as that he was absolutely able ( of himselfe ) to transpose the said corporall matter to any true naturall forme : no surely , such an absolute power is onely , and altogither reserued to God. That the diuell himselfe hath no such supernaturall power , I prooue it thus . In all such naturall bodies as are compounded of matter and forme , neither is the matter by it selfe , nor the forme by it selfe , but the whole composition is wholie formed togither : and therefore , the whole is whol●e transformed into the whole . As for example , the whole aire is whollie made fire : so soone as the said airs is conuerted to fire . Besides that , the effect is euermore like to the agent , and in that selfesame agent , doth effectually preexist at the least . And therefore a naturall bodie compounded of true matter and forme , cannot possibly be produced , but by such an agent , as is , either it selfe compounded of the selfesame matter and forme : or hath otherwaies , that whole composition in his owne proper power . But , a Spirit , or Diuel is only a simple forme , not hauing in himselfe , any material part of such a bodily substance , neither hath he ( at any hand ) the same in his proper power : for , the Lord only , and he alone hath an absolute abilitie of producing such matter and forme . And therefore , by any operation of the Diuel there cannot possibly be formed any such a natural bodie as is compounded of true matter and forme : no , although euery thing in nature , continued entire and sound . But the essential transforming of a rod , into a very true serpent , doth implicatiuely include an essential bodie compounded of true matter and forme by a natural production : and therefore , impossible the same should be truly accomplished by any operation of the Diuel whatsoeuer . And so by consequence , those your supposed serpents compounded of rods , they are ( in deede and in truth ) no true serpents at all , but sleights of legerdemaine . Licanthropus . If they were not true serpents in deede : why then doth the scripture terme them serpents ? Physiologus . Because , howsoeuer no serpents in substance , yet being vndoubtedly such in an outward appeerance : the scriptures doe purposely terme them according to the acceptation of Phaaroh and all the Egyptians . Lycanthropus . Yea , but how could they possibly be seen such in appeerance , not existing at al in a true bodily substance : or how could Aaron his rod deuoure them , they hauing no essential being at all ? Physiologus . I doe freely confesse there might ( at that present ) be seene true serpents in deede , but withall , I doe flatly denie , that the sorcerers rods were essentially transformed to serpents : which is the very point it selfe , that we argue vpon . Those rods I say , were not essentially changed into true naturall serpents : but onely they seemed such in an outward appeerance . Lycanthropus . How should there be wrought a transformation in outward appeerance : and no change in substance at all ? Physiologus . Yes , such an appeerance might easily be performed of Satan , by sundry meanes . First , because ( notwithstanding the present remoouing of sensible things , there might still remaine phantasies and imaginations within the head ) it may be , that the very sensible and earnest beholding of Aaron his rod , essentially transformed to a serpent before , did ( by reason of the vndoubtednes ) take in the beholders so deepe an impression , as that thereby only ( through some locall motion of sensible things remaining in the imaginatiue facultie , together with the humours themselues wherein they were seated as in their proper subiect ) there might still be existing in phantasie , a very liuely appeerance of some such bodily substance as was not subsisting in nature at all . For , much blood descending before into the sensitiue facultie , there descends withall , many imagined formes , whereby there is forthwith procured a very liuely resemblance of some such things as are not existing at all . By this meanes therefore ( there being beforehand procured a commotion of humours , as well in the interiour , as exteriour senses of all the beholders ) the Diuel might both inwardly and outwardly also , applie certaine apparant formes to the very organons of all the senses ; euen as effectually , as if they had risen only from outward sensible obiects : and ( by such a legerdemaine ) might cause the sorcerers rods to seeme in appeerance , as though they had beene true serpents in deede . A notable experiment of such deceiuing of senses , may fitly be found forth in a candle of Adders grease : which ( all the while it be burning alone in the night ) will cause all the russhes strawed in the parlour , to seeme as if they were crawling snakes . Lycanthropus . It is incredible , that the external senses of all the beholders , should ( by any such legerdemaine of the Diuel ) haue beene so grosly deluded . Physiologus . Why not they , as well as the senses of all in the parlour aforesaid ? Secondly , the diuel might not onely delude them thus by some false resemblance of serpents : but might giue them withall , an appearance of true serpents in deed . For , howsoeuer a corporall matter is not so freely and so fully subiected to the power of the diuel , as that he either may , or can possibly transforme the same to some other forme from that which essentially it is of it selfe : yet notwithstanding , such a corporall matter , both may be , and is also so farfoorth in the power of the diuel as appertaines to a local motion , this al men do hold . And therefore , the diuels ( by their owne proper power , and without any perceiuance at all to humane sense ) they might ( through some such local motion ) take away with a trice , the sorcerers rods from the ground : and put in their place true naturall serpents , taken by them from else where . And , this vndoubtedly they might doe in a moment : through the agility and nimblenesse of their owne proper nature . For , euen as the mind of a man ( it being a spirituall substance ) can easily accomplish her animall operations , and as it were with a thought : so surely , the diuel ( he being also a spirituall essence ) he is able much more speedily to accomplish his spirituall actions , and in far shorter time . Lycanthropus . As though the diuels ( so couertly , and with such vnspeakeable speed ) could conuay true naturall serpents in place of the rods : but some must needes haue perceiued the same ? Physiologus . The diuel ( you know ) he is an inuisible creature . Besides that , this we see plaine in our owne experience , that a Iuggler ( by meanes of such local motion , and through the nimble conueiance of his onely hand ) he can so sleightly , and so cunningly conuey one thing in place of another , as the beholders themselues , they do not onely not perceiue the legerdemaine : but ( which more is ) they are vndoubtedly perswaded , that the Iuggler , he hath essentially transformed the first matter in sight , into some other substantiall forme . Now then , if a meere mortalman ( by the onely nimblenesse of hand ) can so easily effect such admirable matters : why should we imagine the same impossible for spirits and diuels ? Pneumatomachus . Wel sir : proceed in the pursute of your purpose . Physiologus . Lastly , spirits and diuels ( being naturally nimble and swift , as was showed before ) they might ( by a local motion ) apply true naturall actiues , to naturall passiues : vpon which application there would vndoubtedly ensue like naturall effects . As for example , wood fitly applied to fire by the hand of a man : fire is foorthwith ingendred in the matter of wood . And yet , that fire so engendred , is efficiently engendred by the fier it selfe , as by a naturall and proper agent : although yet withall , that selfsame fier , is also ministerially effected by the very hand applying the same . And , euen so without doubt , the diuels , they might easily apply some naturall matter , preexisting in a neere disposition to the forme of true serpents , and withall ( subiecting the said matter vnto some proper agent ) might by such meanes engender true naturall serpents , and vnperceiueably put them in place of the rods : whereas yet , those said serpents , so engendred , were efficiently engendred by some proper agent , although withall , they might truely be said to be ministerially effected by the sorcerers themselues , as by the verie hand of the diuell effecting the same . Euen as also the husbandman ( by applying and mixing wheat with earth , may ministerially be saide to bring foorth the said wheat himselfe . Yea , and these things may spirits and diuels more easily and more speedily accomplish then men may possibly doe , for many respects . First , because they vnderstand the power of naturall causes , much better then men . Secondly , they are much more nimble then men , in gathering and applying those naturall causes . Lastly , for that those naturall causes so assumed of diuels : may also by them be applied to farre greater , and more woonderfull effects , then possibly they can be by men . Lycanthropus You affirme incredible things . For , how could the diuels possibly finde either serpents , or any other matter in a neare disposition to serpents : for that so sudden an ingendring and placing of true serpents in place of the rods ? Physiologus . I speake not incredibly at al , if you rightly consider ( as you ought ) that the diuels were especially assisted herein with a towfold power : namely , with the power of nature : and with the power of obedience . Lycanthropus . What meane you by the power of nature ? Physiologus . None other thing els , but that diuine action of nature , wherin the Lord God from the worlds beginning , doth ( of true matter measurably compounded by a determinate agent , & through a local motion effected also in time ) euen voluntarily procreate some certeine determinate effects . Nowe then , the ordinarie assistance of this selfesame naturall power , doth ordinarily befall to men , to spirits and diuels in all ordinarie and naturall productions of formes : so farre foorth especially , as they ( by a naturall knowledge ) are able rightly to comprehend , compound , and applie the same . Yea , and the assistance of this selfesame naturall power , was not wanting at all to the diuels , in those their appearances of true naturall serpents , as was shewed before . Lycanthropus . And what meane you by the power of obedience . Physiologus . I vnderstand thereby , that extraordinarie subiection wherein all things ( without determination or repugnancie ) doe euen readily submit to the will of God , as to the onely supereminent soueraigne ouer all causes , formes , and effects whatsoeuer . This selfesame power of obedience , not onely the Lord himselfe ( immediately , and with no preexistence of matter almost ) doth exercise by himselfe alone euen from the beginning : but euen howerly also by holy men , and by good Angels and diuels doth administer the same . So that , whensoeuer the Lord commandeth any strange action ( surmounting the ordinarie power and course of nature ) to be foorthwith effected , then doth he extraordinarilie take vp the aforenamed persons , as the onely fitte instruments of that his diuine , and supernaturall power . Nowe then , this power of obedience , albeit the same doth not ordinarily attend vpon the pleasure and becke of men or of diuels : yet , the diuels vndoubtedly they had at that present ( by some secret priuiledge from God ) the extraordinarie assistance also thereof , in those selfesame appearances of true naturall serpents . Yea , and this also according to the secret decree and counsell of God : who ( hauing predetermined the destruction of Phaaroh ) did , by this meanes harden his hart , and so made a passage to the timely execution of his iudgements vpon Phaaroh himselfe , and all the Egyptians . Exorcistes . Notwithstanding these two presupposed powers assisting the diuell in those your supposed appearances , me thinke it is cleere by the text it selfe , that the Sorcerersrods were truelie transformed to serpents : and I argue it thus . If those rods were no true serpents , but serpents onely in an outward appearance , then is not that true which is set downe in the text : namelie , that the sorcerers , Likewise they cast downe their roddes , and they were turned into serpents . Physiologus . I answere you thus . It is vndoubtedly true whatsoeuer is set downe in the text : and may verie well stand with that which I say . For , be it it supposed , the Sorcerersrods were turned ( as you say ) into serpents , yet were they not truely so turned ; I meane , they were not existingly , but appearingly turned into serpents . And this distinction is verie fully borne foorth by other words in the text ; which affirme , that the Egyptian Sorcerers they did ( in like maner ) by their enchantments . Where you may plainely perceiue the particle of ( likenes ) purposely put down , to set foorth the difference : as if he should say , the Sorcerers they did the very like in shewe , although not in substance . For marke I beseech you : there is in that text , both the maner and meanes of their working , precisely put downe . The manner of their working , was by a likenes of serpents in an onelie appearance : the meanes of effecting that worke , was the Sorcerers inchantments . From which words of the text , I may reason thus . A like cause argueth a like effect . But the Sorcerers inchantments ( which are altogither deceiueable , false , and standing onely in outward appearance ) were the very efficient cause of that likenes : therefore , the effect , I meane , that likenes it selfe , must needs be deceiueable , false , and onely exist in an outward appearance . Thus then , the case it selfe being ( by all the premisses ) apparantly euident : I will now returne at the last , to answere your maine or principall argument , which was this in effect . Satan ( by the Egyptian Sorcerers ) transformed rods into serpents : therefore , he is much more able to doe the same by himselfe . This ( I must tell you ) is a false and deceiueable argument , For first , in your antecedent you do shamefullie begge the cause in question before it be prooued : and now , when it comes to the triall , it is not able to holde the hammering . Againe , your consequent also is false , for , therein you do make the diuell a verie free and absolute agent , in transforming of bodies as well without , as with meanes at his pleasure , which onely is a power peculiar to God : whereas the diuels can accomplish nothing in nature , but by naturall causes and meanes , no more then the Carpenter can frame an house without fit matter and instruments to worke withall . So then , both parts of your argument being apparantly false : you cannot possiblie conclude from thence , any power in the diuell , for an essentiall transforming of bodies . Lycanthropus . Well sir ? Howsoeuer you passe ouer this argument , taken from the sorcerers rods transformed to serpents , and all this ( forsooth ) by a pretie distinstion of a thing in existence , and of a thing in appearance : yet haue I one argument more , which you shall neuer be able to auoide with that cunning deuise . Physiologus . Let vs heare that irrefragable argument : for , hitherto you haue afoorded vs none that needes any great cunning in answering . Lycanthropus . Nebuchad-nezzar ( it is very well knowen ) was essentially transformed into an oxe : therfore , the diuel may easily change himselfe into any shape whatsoeuer . Physiologus . Or euer I come to answere directly your argument , doe tell me how it is certainly knowen that Nebuchad-nezzer was essentially transformed into an oxe ? Lycanthropus . Iosephus writing of the Iewish antiquities , he flatly affirmes it so . Physiologus . Iosephus doth so I confesse . Howbeit , Iosephus , he hath beene so often discredited and tainted in other points of more waightie importance , as , the lesse credit is to be giuen him in this , : especially , the very words of the text being otherwaies euident , and testifying plainly vnto vs , that Nebuchad-nezzer he was not essentially transformed at all , either in minde , or in bodie . Lycanthropus . Neuer goe about to make vs thinke so : for , the very text , it telleth vs plainly , he did eate grasse like an oxe . Physiologus . It doth so in deede : and what of that ? will you hereupon inferre , that therefore , he was essentially transformed into an oxe ? That were a mad kinde of inference . So conies and geese , they doe eate grasse like an oxe : and yet notwithstanding , they still retaine their proper essential being , without any essential transformings into either oxen , or asses . Besides that , if you will wilfully insist vpon any essentiall transformation in Nebuchad-nezzer , you might with more shew of sense , and better probabilitie of reason auouch , that he was transformed rather into an eagle : both , bicause the haires of his head ( saith the text ) were growen like to an eagles feathers , and for that also , the very nailes of his hands and feete , they were like to the clawes of a bird . And therefore , it would be more consonant ( you see ) to conclude , that Nebuchad-nezzer was rather transformed into some fowle hauing feathers and clawes : then , into a beast that hath hornes and hoofes . Howbeit , there was in him no corporal transformation at all , but only a changed minde , for , so saith the text : Let his hart be changed from mans nature , and a beastes hart be giuen vnto him . Lycanthropus . If you yeeld vnto him a changed hart : I make no doubt at all of an altered bodie . For , if the minde it selfe which is the first substantial forme in man , be transformed ( as you say ) to an oxe : what other forme or being at all can be giuen to the bodie ( it being the organical partes of the minde ) but only the forme of an oxe ? Physiologus . What meane you by Nebuchad-nezzer his hart transformed ? Lycanthropus . I meane thereby , that his very hart it selfe was essentially changed into the very hart of a beast : for , so saith the text . Physiologus . The text vnderstandeth there , no reall transmutation , or transformation of substance : but only an alteration , or change of qualities . For , there is no doubt at all , but that in Nebuchad-nezzer there still remained a reasonable hart : howsoeuer ( by the iust iudgement of God for his pride ) he was ( for the determined time ) euen vtterly depriued of all vse of reason . Hauing his said hart ( for the present ) so plunged in beastly corruptions , and so wholy ouerwhelmed with brutish affections : as that ( thereby ) he differed nothing at all from a beast , being more blockish and senselesse in humane knowledge , then the very oxe that feedeth on grasse . So that , how honorable soeuer before in princely dignitie , yet ( hauing now in him no vnderstanding at all ) he is not vnlike to the beastes that perish . Lycanthropus . If there were in his hart no substantiall change at all : how could there possibly be wrought in the same , such altered , or changed qualities ? Physiologus . There is nothing ( you knowe ) impossible to God. By whose eternal decree , the hart of Nebuchad-nezzer was so thoroughly ouertaken and tainted with such an outragious furie , or madnes , as that he ( being vtterly depriued of humane sense ) did presently depart the Court : very wildly wandring ouer the wildernes like to a beast , conuersing ( in brutish manner ) among the brute beastes themselues , and leading ( for the time ) a very sauage and beastly behauiour . Exorcistes . If Nebuchad-nezzer was not essentially transformed at all in bodie or minde , but possessed only with furie and madnes , it is vnlikely his Courtiers would suffer him then to conuerse with beasts abroad in the fields , but would rather haue bound him , and kept him vp close in the darke ; and therefore , for any thing hitherto heard , he might be essentially transformed into a beast . Physiologus . That he was not essentially transformed at all , it is very apparant by all the premisses . Why his owne courtiers ( perceiuing him plainly depriued of reason ) did not bind him foorthwith , and keepe him vp close , but permitted him to wander wildly abroade , there was very great reason . For first , the courtiers they knew very well , and all men may see by experience that , the binding and keeping of a madman close ; is so far from appeasing , as it rather doth aggrauate ( for the present ) his furious humour : and therefore the courtiers forbore to bind him at all . Besides that , they were the more especially loth to be led to that course , because ( by the reuelation of Daniel ) they plainely vnderstood before , that , the lord God had determined his wandring abroad with the beasts in the field : and therefore , they greatly feared to intercept the said purpose of God , assuring themselues , that ( after the determined time ) he should safely returne to his owne kingdome againe . Exorcistes . But sir , if he was not essentially transformed at all , how then is it possible he should so long lie foorth naked in the fields in frosts and deawes ; or liue any time , with such vnnaturall diet , or , be preserued ( at least ) from the deuouring of beasts ? Physiologus . If we but consider this matter by naturall reason , wee may find by experience , that many things ( in deed ) are impossible to a sound man : which yet , to a furious or mad man are not so impossible . For , fury is such and so headstrong an humour , as it maketh a man to endure and doe many things ; which otherwaies he could not possibly endure . As for example many madde-men ( we see ) are well able to continue in the cold dew a long time , and to be sustained ( that while ) with crude and rawe meates : seeming also vnto themselues , that they are not men , but brute beasts in deed , and thereupon also , they delight to conuerse with beasts , and to grow into familiaritie with them , although yet , not essentially transformed into true naturall beasts indeed . Pneumatomachus . Surely , this seemeth strange vnto me : and I see not the reason thereof . Physiologus . The reason is this . Furie hath so highly disordered their nature , and made their minds so beastly affected , as , many things ( in that their disordered state ) are possible and delectable to them , which yet ( in their sounder estate ) were nothing so . Euen as also we see by experience , that verie coales or earth ( to many women with child ) are a verie sweete and delectable diet , which yet ( before then ) they did loth and abhorre : and all this , by reason of their disordered nature at that instant time . And , hereupon also it came to passe that Nebuchadnezzer did grow into such familiaritie with beasts : namely , euen by reason of that likenes of nature , which ( to his owne seeming ) he had with brute beasts , in that his disordered state . Yea , and this also is the verie naturall cause , why ( at that present ) he was not torne and deuoured of beasts : euen as also we see by experience , that furious dogges , they doe neuer hurt mad-men , nor naturall fooles . Howbeit , Nebuchad-nezzer ( in his furious estate and melancholike passion ) he was more especially preserued from the outrage of beasts , through a miraculous prouidence , and speciall protection of God : and therefore , his said preseruation ( in that selfesame respect ) the lesse admirable , and woonderfull to vs. Thus then ( the matter it selfe , being manifestly apparant ) I will now answere your maine or principall argument : which was this in effect . Nebuchad-nezzer he was essentially transformed into an oxe : therefore , the diuell may easily change himselfe into any shape whatsoeuer . This argument is many waies faultie , and halteth downe right . For , first , your antecedent is vtterly false , and a meere begging of the matter in Question : because Nebuchad-nezzer ( as you haue hitherto heard ) he was not essentially transformed into an oxe : and therefore , this prooueth nothing at all for the reall transformation of spirits and diuels . Secondly , if Nebuchad-nezzer had beene so transformed in deed as your selfe doth imagine : yet , the sequel of your argument is vtterly vnsound : because it stands vpon diuers , or rather contrarie efficients , namely God , and the diuell . The one hauing of himselfe an absolute and indeterminate power , and therefore able of himselfe to worke what he will , where , when , and howsoeuer best pleaseth himselfe : and so by consequence he might ( if it had so seemed good in his wisedome ) haue essentially transformed Nebuchad-nezzer into au oxe . The other ( the diuell I meane ) he hath onely a finite and limited power , and therefore vtterly vnable of himselfe to accomplish any one worke beyond the bounds of that power : and so by consequence , he cannot possibly transforme himselfe essentially into any creature whatsoeuer , without a speciall power from God. Lastly , your consequent , it standeth onely vpon ( may be ) and so concludeth no certaintie at all concerning the Question . Exorcistes . Well sir ? howsoeuer Nebuchad-nezzer was not essentiallie transformed into an oxe , yet this you consesse , that , for seauen yeeres togither , he did vtterly want all vse of reason : and therefore , I woonder how so renowmed a kingdome coulde continue all that time without a gouernour . Physiologus . This is but extrauagant and wandring speech , though yet the kingdome ( no doubt ) it was all that time gouerned by the princes and nobles , according to Daniels direction . Who fully assuring them of the king his vndoubted returne to the kingdome after those seuen yeeres end : the nobles either they durst not establish any other as king , for feare of being tainted with treason at his returne , or else ( honoring him in their harts for his former victories ) they resolued to expect his happie returne with patience . Howsoeuer , the Lord who determined the iudgement , he also prepared away no doubt , to the peaceable preseruation of Nebuchad-nezzer his kingly dominions . And therefore muse no more of the matter , but either speake to the purpose in hand : or , put an end to the conference . Lycanthropus . Sir , howsoeuer I am vnable to replie vpon any thing spoken : I will neuer beleeue , but that spirits and diuels can essentially transforme themselues into what bodies they please . Orthodoxus . I haue hitherto endured your weakenes in answering to any thing vttered by maister Physiologus : hoping that verie shame would haue made you ( ere now ) to giue ouer the field . Howbeit , perceiuing your setled pertinacie in this your opinion , I cannot but speake : woondring withall , that you should be so resolute in that , whereof you can yeeld no one reason at all , but onely your will. Lycanthropus . Yes sir , it is the generall opinion of all men , that the diuell can transforme himselfe into any forme whatsoeuer . Orthodoxus . Howsoeuer men , by tradition had receiued an errour hand ouer head , for not looking throughly into it : yet may you not folow a multitude to do euill , neither agree in a controuersie to decline after many , and ouerthrowe the truth . And verie certeine I am , that no one sound writer , either old or new is of your mind : but rather the contrarie . As for my selfe , I neuer could see any shew of reason tending that way . For the Lord God , as he hath endued man , and euery liuing thing , with their proper nature , substance , forme , constitution , qualities and gifts , and directeth their wils , faculties , and powers accordingly : so hath he alotted to spirituall creatures , their owne substance and properties seuerall alone to themselues , and appointed them their lawes and limits , beyond which they cannot possiblie passe the bredth of an haire . And therefore , as it is absolutely against the ordinance of God , that I should flie like a bird , or swim like a fish , or creepe like a worme , or become another creature in forme , to that which by nature I am , insomuch , as if God would giue me leaue , I could not possiblie do it , for it were flat contrarie to his owne ordinance and decree , yea , and euen opposite to the naturall constitution of that bodie which he hath created and giuen me : so is it vndoubtedly incredible , that either a diuell should be essentially transformed into a man , or a man substantially turned into a diuell , or that either of both , should reallie change themselues into any other nature , substance , forme , constitution , qualitie or gift , then those verie same which they haue by creation , yea , or that they should possiblie applie those which they haue , to any other end or vse then that which God himselfe naturally decreed , and directeth them vnto . Otherwise , either God should be contrarie to himselfe which is farre from him : or else those things must needs be supernaturall , and so , a true miracle in whom soeuer . Neither yet is Gods omnipotencie hereby qualified : but the diuell his impotencie is rather manifested , and more liuely declared . Who hath no further power then that which God from the beginning hath appointed vnto him : and the same also consonant to his owne nature and substance . The diuell ( I confesse ) may well be restrained from his naturall faculties , power , and will : but ( being Gods minister ) beyond the same he cannot possiblie passe the bredth of a pinne , neither yet any other waies , or further imploie his endeuour , then onely in that verie worke which the Lord ( from the beginning ) hath enabled him to do . Which is , that he ( being himselfe a spirit ) may vitiate and corrupt the spirit of man , and therein also he is diligent enough : howbeit for the doing heereof , he cannot substantially alter his forme at all . Philologus . I haue heard many very confidently affirme that the diuell hath appeared to them in the likenes of a man , a cocke , a catte , or a dogge . Orthodoxus . Yea , but how are those confident affirmers certeinly sure , that , the man , the cocke , the catte or the dogge , whose likenesse they sawe in appearance , was indeed , and in truth either spirit or diuell : and not rather the Legerdemaine of some coniuring Priest , or cousening companion . For , if a diuell can indeed essentially transforme himselfe into the likenes , figure , or shape of a man , a dogge , a catte , a mouse , or a toade ▪ whie can he not also transforme , a man , a dogge , a catte , a mouse , or a toade into the likenes , figure , or shape of a diuell , sith there is a like reason and possibilitie of both ? Howbeit , we may not beleeue ( saith Augustine ) that , a mans bodie can ( by any Arte or power of the diuell ) be transformed into the lineaments of a beast : much lesse into the forme or substance of any infernall diuell . Besides that , if spirits and diuels may possiblie transforme themselues into an humane bodie : then could not Christ his argument propounded to Thomas , be currant & good , where he saith , behold my hands and side , and put thy finger into my hands , and thrust thy hand into my side : and be not faithlesse , but faithfull . All this ( how truely soeuer deliuered by Christ ) could neuer ( in truth ) haue satisfied Thomas concerning the resurrection of Christ : if it be true in deed that diuels can truely transforme themselues into true naturall bodies . For Thomas ( remayning vnsatisfied ) might boldly haue answered thus , oh sir ? why doe you will me to handle your hands and sides ? that is no certeine argument , to demonstrate vnto me your rising againe from the dead . Because , spirits and diuels ( you know ) they can truely transforme themselues into true naturall bodies : and therefore ( notwithstanding such an experimentall , or sensible knowledge ) you may rather be some transformed spirit or ghost to deceiue me , then my Lord and my God which came for to saue me . Thus then you see , that ( if these essentiall transformations be concluded for currāt ) Thomas his incredulity ( for any thing heard ) might passe vncontroled . Exorcistes . Though the diuell cannot alter his forme substantially , yet may he change the same in shape or figure , I doubt not , and such a distinction hath Bodin , saying : The essentiall forme namely , reason it selfe , is not changed : but onely the outward shape or figure . Orthodoxus . Bodin , he strikes it dead no doubt . For , here he maketh the diuell a cunning iugler , who ( by casting a miste before mens eies ) can giue to spirituall substances , what outward figure and forme he please . Howbeit , till Bodin be able to demonstrate truely vnto vs , that the diuell may haue power to alter essentially a spirituall substance : we will neuer acknowledge any possibilitie of transforming their shape or formes at all . Exorcistes . Well , yet Augustine subscribes to such transformations . Orthodoxus . He doth I confesse . Yea , those , and other like matters are so common in many of his workes , as , I am driuen to suspect they were rather cunningly foisted in by some cunning popish coniuring Priest , to credit his cosening practises : then carefully inserted by Augustine himselfe , to set foorth a truth . Howsoeuer , I say with Cardanus , that , how many of those transformations Augustine saith he hath seene with his eies : so many I am content ( for the reuerence I owe him ) to giue credit vnto . All the rest I account but Cabalisticall conceits ; and no better ( in effect ) then foolish toies to mocke an Ape . Yea , and so much the rather , because Augustine himselfe affirmeth those transformations to be but phantasticall : and that they are not according to the veritie , but according onely to their outward appearance . Lycanthropus . Yet , such then according to outward appearance . Orthodoxus . I alow no such supposed appearances made by diuels : because , I find no such power giuen them by God in all the scriptures . Besides that , if we admit , that diuels may take onely but formes , or shapes vpon them , though not the very substance it selfe of a true naturall body : yet then also Christ his argument made ( else where ) vnto his disciples had not been sound in euery point , saying thus : handle me and see , for a spirit it hath not flesh and bones as you see me to haue . Setting downe visibility and palpability , as things opposite to the nature of spirits and diuels : reducing his disciples ( in discerning of spirits ) to the iudgment , first , of their eies , and then next of their hands , and arguing thus . Spirits can neither be seen nor felt : but I may both be seen and felt , therefore I am no spirit . And then next , he reasoneth a disparatis , thus . A spirit it hath neither flesh nor bones : but I haue both , therefore , no spirit . Putting down there you see ) very apparant and manifest properties to seperate himselfe in shew , from a spirit . And therefore , if spirits and diuels haue power by any possible meanes , to transforme themselues but into the onely outward formes and shapes of true naturall bodies , though not substantially transformed in deed : yet could not that which Christ concludeth , haue soundly established the disciples faith concerning the true body of Christ. Because they ( by reason of such supposed apparitions ) remaining still doubtfull ; might haue fitly replied thus . Good sir , though spirits and diuels haue not substantially flesh and bones , and therefore , no true and substantiall bodies : yet can they truely transforme themselues into the outward shapes and formes of true naturall bodies : and so notwithstanding , we may be deceiued in an onely outward appearance . These exceptions ( you see ) the disciples of Christ they might iustly haue made : neither ( if these transformations be vndoubtedly true ) might Christ so sharply haue blamed their vnbeleefe . Lycanthropus . Spirits ( I confesse ) they are not palpable , but only visible : and therefore , not the seing ( without the handling ) might wel haue satisfied Christ his disciples . Orthodoxus . Yea , but ( whatsoeuer you imagine of the other disciples ) if you rightly way , and exactly consider the text it selfe with the seuerall circumstances ) you may plainely perceiue , that the fault of Thomas his incredulity was secondly bewraied and condemned : for that the durst neither credit the vewe taken by the other disciples , nor trust his owne eies concerning the truth of Christs body . For ( saith Christ ) because thou hast seen ( not because thou hast felt ) thou beleeuest . Also , blessed are they that beleeue and see not : and not they that beleeue , and feele not . Giuing thereby to vnderstand , that our corporall eies may truely discerne betweene a spirit , and a true naturall body : which were not true , if spirits and diuels could possibly transforme themselues into any visible shapes or formes of true bodies , for thereby the sence of seeing might soone be deluded . And in very deed , it is very erronious for any to imagine that the eies may possibly be deceiued , in discerning between spirits and diuels , and true naturall bodies : as appeareth by sundry scriptures . Wherein Christ very sharply reprooueth his owne disciples : for not crediting the iudgment of their owne eies in such a case . Which could not ( I say ) be a certeine rule ; if spirits and diuels can truely and essentially transforme themselues into true naturall bodies : or but change themselues into the true shapes and formes of such bodies . And , this ( I beleeue ) doth break the very neck of those your supposed transformations of spirits and diuels whatsoeuer . Lycanthropus . This that you say is vndoubtedly true , and yet , still me thinke the diuell should haue power , so to transforme himselfe , either in substance , or appearance at least : although I my selfe am vnable to render any one reason thereof . Orthodoxus . It is verie ridiculous ( saith one ) for a man to leaue manifest things , and such as euen by naturall reason may soundly be prooued : and so , to seeke after vnknowen things , which , by no likelyhood may be conceiued , nor yet tried out by any rule of reason : but , Good Lord , how light of credit is the wauering minde of man ? How vnto lies and tales , his eares attentiue all they can ? Lycanthropus . Good maister Orthodoxus ? I am drawen ( by the very force of your speech ) into a maruelous perplexitie . For when I examine the weight of your reasons propounded , I am driuen to denie the transformation of spirits and diuels : but , so soone as I returne to the necessarie consideration of my present distressed estate , then , that former new-bredde conceit is cut in the necke , and squashed quite . Orthodoxus . And why so I praie you ? Lycanthropus . Surely sir , because I my selfe am essentially transformed into a woolfe : I make no question , but that diuels can also substantially change themselues into any true naturall bodie . Orthodoxus . Verie true as you say : the one is euery way as possible as is the other . Lycanthropus . Why , then alas , the Lord be mercifull to vs : for what man in the world may possiblie be free from their malice ? Philologus . How now Lycanthropus , are you indeed in good earnest ? doe you verilie imagine you are essentially transformed into a woolfe ? now surely , this is the oddest iest that euer I heard . Lycanthropus . Nay , nay ( alas ) it passeth a iest : for I finde it and feele it to true by experience . Physiologus . Well said Lycanthropus , now I perceiue your name was not giuen you for nought : it being so proportionablie answerable to your phantasticall nature . You are called Lycanthropus : that is , a man transformed to a woolfe : which name is verie fitlie deriued from the verie disease it selfe that disorders your braine , called Lycanthropia . Which worde , some Physitions do translate Daemonium Lupinum , that is , a wooluish Demoniacke : others Lupina melancholica , and Lupina insania , that is a wooluish melancholie , or a wooluish furie and madnes . And it is nothing else in effect , but an infirmitie arising vpon such phantasticall imaginations , as do might●ly disorder and trouble the braine . Lycanthropus . An infirmitie say you ? It is a verie strange and fearefull infirmitie , that can so essentially transforme a man into a verie naturall woolfe ? God blesse euery good man from such kinde of infirmities . Physiologus . Had you liued in such a time , as beasts , and beares , & woolues were supposed to speake like men : it had beene an easie matter ( I perceiue ) to perswade you that you are a woolfe . Lycanthropus . Yea , but how are you able to perswade me the contrarie ? Physiologus . That may easily be done , by describing briefly vnto you , the verie true nature of that the aforesaid diseases , which so fearefully affecteth your minde , with these phantasticall imaginations and fond conceits . Lycanthropus . I praie you then describe it plainly vnto me . Physiologus . With verie good will. Wherein you must principally consider , that the verie first matter which causeth Ly●anthropie , or this wooluish Demoniacke : consisteth in the very selfesame matter or stuffe that maketh in any other man else , a melancholike humour , for either of both are melancholike persons . Howbeit , the peculiar cause it selfe which more especially procureth Lycanthropie , is either that kinde of mela●choly which ariseth properly of choler adust : or that which comes of a simple and naturall melancholie . Sometimes also it proceedes of an impostume of bloud in the braine : but verie seldome of bloudadust . Now then , that Lycanthropie which ariseth onely of the abundance of a simple melancholie , as it is ( for the most part ) the verie woorst of all , & therefore is called Lupina insania , a wooluish furie or madnes : so is it commonly seated in the exteriour parts of the braine , and hath an operation not vnlike to the matter of a desease , called Karabitus , which is a hotte impostume of the head , seated in the verie ventricle of the braine it selfe , causing choller adust , and the melancholike matter verie much to abound . Whose vaporous humors ( vitiating and corrupting the braine , ) doe procure the patient vnto a verie deepe sleepe . Wherein his phantasie is fearefully troubled with the dailie impression of such fearefull and strange imaginations as do cause the interiour spirits of the braine to waxe verie wilde and fearefull : by reason of those blacke and cloudie representations : which were receiued before in the phantasie . And heereof it is , that some vnskilfull Physitions , do so rashly ascribe this humorous disease to the operation of the diuell : and that the ignorant people do absurdly imagine the partie thus affected , to be vndoubtedly possessed of diuels , Howbeit , they should certeinly know , that a cholerike humour ( so soone as an extreme adustion affecteth the same ) is foorthwith conuerted to furie or madnes : neither is it then satisfied with an onely simple melancholike affection . This disease , it hapneth to men especially in Autumne through the malitiousnes of the humors abounding , and eftsoones is encreased in the spring , & in summer : yea , & it is then the extreamest of all when the north-winde blowes , by reason of the drines thereof . The signes that commonly fall foorth in the beginning of this disease , are these , namely , strange conceits and feares , a pronesse to anger : the partie affecting solitarinesse , hauing a fearefull swimming and turning about of the braine . Howbeit , when the disease is once growne to perfection : then there folowes verie fearfull and strange effects . For , some are afraide the heauens will ouerwhelme them forthwith : some feare the earth will swallow them quicke : some stand in continuall dread of theeues : and others againe , that woolues will enter into them . Some imagine themselues to be diuels , birds , and vessels of earth : yea , and that they be truely transformed into woolues , and therefore they do counterfeit their voices , & wander about in the fields . This vndoubtedly is your present disease : & this is that which makes you so resolute concerning the supposed possession of spirits and diuels . All which you may plainely perceiue , is nothing else in effect , but a phantasticall conceit , occasioned only vpon those disordered humours which hurt and trouble your braine . That which any further concerneth the nature , the causes , the circumstances , and cure of Lycanthropie : you may see more at large in Wierus his workes . Lycanthropus . This is very strange I assure you , and more then euer I heard : albeit I haue felt the experience thereof in my selfe . Physiologus . Not so strange as true : and therefore , forsake your folly in time . Orthodoxus . I pray you hartely doe so , and that so much the rather : by how much the diuel ( in working vpon that disordered humour ) will be ready eftsoones to abuse you afresh . In consideration whereof , I will shew you what the Ancyran councell a●d others haue carefully decreed against such humerous persons , saying thus . Whereas certeine gracelesse women ( seduced wholly by satans illusions ) doe verely imagine themselues ( for certeine howers in the night ) to be riding vpon woolues and beasts with Diana the pagane Goddesse , and to passe through sundry countries : through which erronious conceite , they ( being grosly abused ) doe verely beleeue those things to be true , yea , and ( in beleeuing the same ) do fearefully straggle from the true sauing faith . It appertaineth therefore to the ministers ( in euery their seuerall churches ) to publish and confute the falshood hereof : and withall , to strengthen the minds of their people against euery such phantasticall and fond illusion of satan . Who eftsoones assailing the minds of humerous women , and ( through infidelity ) conpling them sure to himselfe , deludes their said minds with dreames and visions : making them sometimes mery , and sometimes sad : shewing them sundry persons , both knowne and vnknown : yea , and leading them dangerous bie-waies to their owne destruction . Thus you see the councels decree against these rouing conceites , wherewith your selfe ( at this present ) is fearefullie tainted : and therefore , forethinke you thereof in time . Lycanthropus . Are there then no essentiall transformations at all ? Orthodoxus . No verily , whatsoeuer they seeme in shewe , they are but illusions and sleights of the diuel to deceiue : and therefore ( I aduise you to winde your selfe from them with speede , for feare of a further mischiefe . And , because you shall not imagine this councell I giue , to be but a dreaming deuise of my owne : therefore , ( besides that which was spoken before ) I will yet further make knowen vnto you , how generall councels , many good writers , yea , and the Popes owne canons do all iointly condemne and pronounce this peeuish opinion concerning the supposed transformation of diuels , to be impious , absurd and diuellish , and the maintainers thereof to be woorse then Infidels , saying thus : Whosoeuer beleeueth that any one creature can be made or changed into better or woorse , or to be transformed into any other shape , or into any other similitude , by any other then by God himselfe the creator of all things : without doubt , he is but an Infidell , and woorse then a Pagane . And therewithall , this reason is rendred . Because ( say they ) they doe therein attribute that power to a creature : which onely belongeth to God the creator of all things . By this you may plainely perceiue , of what reckoning these your supposed transformations haue beene in former times . Philologus . Lycanthropus ? your opinion ( it appeareth ) is plainely condemned of all : and therefore , forsake it for shame . Lycanthropus . So I do I assure you : praising the Lord with all my hart , for bringing me thus to behold the folly thereof : yea , and am hartely sory , for being bewitched therewith so long , being also ashamed now of my odious name . Physiologus . The Lords name be blessed for this your happy illumination in Iesus Christ. Pneumatomachus . Yea , and the Lord grant the like happy successe , to our further proceedings . Lycanthropus . So be it . But good Master Orthodoxus , I remember full wel , how that ( in the beginning of our conference , where we handled the power of spirits aud diuels ) you spake of a twofold possession : the one reall , the other actuall . The first you haue fully confuted : notwithstanding any thing spoken to the contrary . Howbeit , of the other , the question is ordinary in euery mans mouth : and therefore , I pray you hartely shew vs your iudgement also therein . Orthodoxus . What ( I pray you ) is the common opinion of men concerning the same ? Lycanthropus . I here of none that make any doubt of actuall possession : yea , and the Exorcist also who cast out the diuel at Magnitton ( howsoeuer he faggeth with me now , concerning his first conceite of real possessions ) he is very confident ( in the very title of his apology ) to auouch the yong man to haue been actually possessed of satan . Exorcistes . I doe so in deed , and I make no doubt thereof at all being able ( I hope ) to mannage the same against all men , yea euen to the death . Orthodoxus . What are you able to mannage against all to the death ? Exorcistes . That the diuel hath , and may haue now ( euen in these daies of the gospel ) an actuall or powerfull possession in men . Orthodoxus . What man ? are you now fled from your idle conceit of essentiall possessions , to the supposed actuall possessions of spirits and diuels : this , as it argueth euidently great want of munition to mannage that matter ; so it haleth vs perforce to follow your footings awhile , in these your wandring vagaries , that so ( being forcibly beaten from all hope of recouering your former hold ) you may be forced ( at the lenght ) to yeeld vp the conquest in the open field . Howbeit , this question ( I perceiue ) doth craue a larger discourse then the present time will afoord : especially , our dinner being now in a readinesse , and staying vpon vs. Let vs therefore ( for the present ) put an ende to our speech , till we haue refreshed our selues with the good blessings of God : and then afterwards walke foorth , and conferre of this point to the full . Pneumatomachus . Sir you may account vs for bold and impudent guests , that are thus troublesome and chargeable to you . Orthodoxus . My ministerie is allotted to these kinde of troubles , and my cheare , I account well bestowed vpon such sort of guests : therefore , make no more strangenes , but , arise and goe with me , Philologus . We praise God for your kindnes and care concerning our bodies and soules : and therefore doe thankfully accept of your offer , and dutifully attend on your person . Orthodoxus . Let vs then arise , and depart . The end of the fifth Dialogue . The sixth Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . Of actuall possession , what it is ? And whether the diuels now ( in these dates of the Gospell ) do actually possesse either the minde or the bodie : by an extraordinarie afflicting or vexing ? The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOMACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Orthodoxus . HAuing blessed the Lord for his benefits , the choice shal be yours , whether you will walke foorth abroad : or , keepe close in my Parlour , and conferre there of the question for one or two howers . Physiologus . Sir , you remember the Prouerbe . After dinner sit a while : and after supper walke a mile . The which , as it accordeth verie fitly with the rules of Physicke : so will it be a furtherance to the maine purpose it selfe , which we haue in hand . Orthodoxus . You say verie well . Goe to therefore Exorcistes proceed in your purpose : and tell vs what you hold concerning this point . Exorcistes . This I haue hitherto , and yet still doe confidently holde : That the diuell , euen in these daies of the Gospell : hath an actuall possession in men . Orthodoxus . Well then ( before you produce your proofes ) let vs first put downe the question it selfe in it proper termes : that so , we may the better perceiue the verie point of your purpose . Lycanthropus . I pray you proceed in that course . Orthodoxus . With verie good will. For so the matter controuersed betweene vs , may more fitly be comprehended within the true bounds of an orderly conference . Philologus . A verie conuenient course , in my proper conceit . Pneumatomachus . I am iust of your minde . Exorcistes . Neither know I of any one that dissents from the same . Tell vs therefore , I praie you : what is actuall possession ? Orthodoxus . The actuall possession , is that effectuall working power , wherewith the diuels ( by an operatiue permission of God ) doe extraordinarily , and in most woonderfull manner afflict , molest , torment , and vexe some speciall persons ( in a speciall iudgement of God ) put ouer vnto them , for that speciall purpose . Wherein , we haue first to obserue , the primarie efficient cause : namely , the speciall purpose and iudgement of God. Then next , the secondary efficient cause : I meane , the effectuall working power of the diuell . Thirdly the materiall cause : that is to say , the affliction , the torment , and vexation it selfe . Fourthly , the formall cause : namely , an extraordinarie manner of working . And lastly , the finall cause : I meane , some speciall purpose of God , best knowen to his wisedome . Lycanthropus . How manifold I pray you , is this actuall possession ? Orthodoxus . It is twofold : namely , either mentall or corporall . Lycanthropus . What meane you by the mental-actuall possession ? Orthodoxus . My meaning is not , that the diuell doth really enter , and essentially , or inherently dwel in the possessed mans minde , which we denied before , when we conferred of the real-mentall possession : but , that he doth onely actually afflict , and effectiuelie torment the possessed mans minde . Lycanthropus . What meane you , by actually afflicting the possessed mans minde ? Orthodoxus . By actually afflicting , I vnderstand the effectuall and powerfull operation , wherewith the diuell ( for the present ) doth so fearefully molest , and so strangely depriue the possessed mans minde it selfe , from the present vse of all reason : as he makes him euen senseles and woode , verie violently to rush headlong into fire and water , and outragiouslie to runne vpon desperate aduentures . Lycanthropus . And what call you the corporall actuall possession ? Orthodoxus . I call the corporall actuall possession , that ineuitable working power : whereby the diuels doe actually torment and vexe the whole , or some speciall part of the possessed mans bodie . Lycanthropus . What meane you , by actually tormenting the whole or some part of the bodie ? Orthodoxus . My meaning is , that , the diuels ( for the present ) doe , either powerfully disable the whole , or some part of the possessed mans bodie , from the orderly accomplishment of their peculiar and ordinarie operations appointed of God , by depriuing the said body foorthwith of seeing , of hearing , of speaking , of walking , by bowing and bending togither : or do otherwaies , verie effectually enable the saide bodie , or the seuerall parts thereof , with some extraordinarie , and vnnaturall force , for the fearefull effecting of many outragious , and most mischieuous practises . Namely , the remaining day & night among graues : the knapping in sunder of chaines : a violent rending , and tearing : a tumbling headlong into fiers and waters : a scriking , a wallowing , a foaming , and leauing for dead . Pneumatomachus . These actuall possessions , are fearefull possessions . Orthodoxus . They are so I confesse . But what saith Exorcistes to those things that be spoken ? Exorcistes . Sir , the description which you haue made of actuall possession , with those her seuerall kindes : I approoue in euery point . But , tell me in good earnest , do you absolutely denie euery such actuall possession ? Orthodoxus . I doe freely acknowledge , that the same was vndoubtedly in vse in the daies of Christ : howbeit , I do flatly deny any further continuance thereof now , in this time of the Gospell . Exorcistes . Men may denie the sunne-shine at mid-daie : if they coulde beare vs in hand we were blinde . Orthodoxus . And , men may affirme the moone to be made of a greene cheese : if they could make vs beleeue what they list . Howbeit , affirme what you will : we are commanded to search the scriptures , and to trie out your spirit , before we beleeue you . Licanthropus . Good maister Orthodoxus , resolue vs I praie you in this so intricate and doubtfull a matter : for al men do acknowledge , and my selfe hath hitherto euer held the actuall possession of diuels , Orthodoxus . I do neither respect what the most men acknowledge , nor greatly regard what your selfe do hold so long as I haue truth on my side . We must not runne after a multitude in the doing of euill : nor agree in a controuersie to decline after many in ouerthrowing the truth . You also held the reall possession of diuels not long since , which now you disclaime : and so will you do this other I doubt not before it be long . Lycanthropus . Verie true as you saie : and therefore I lay my hand on my mouth . Exorcistes . Sir , notwithstanding these your cloked insinuations , I make no question at all , concerning the actual possession of diuels , euen now in these daies of the Gospell . Orthodoxus . Why man ? The Lord God neuer purposed , much lesse hath he openly auouched the perpetuitie thereof in any part of his word : therefore , the same was onely temporarie , and no way perpetuall . Exorcistes . Yes sir ? a perpetuall commission for repelling the actuall possession of diuels , was vndoutedly giuen by Christ and the same very formally executed also by his owne disciples : as appeareth plainely in sundry scriptures . Orthodoxus . Frame your argument from those places of scripture . Exorcistes . I frame it thus . The commission giuen by Christ , for repelling the actuall possession of diuels remaineth perpetuall : therefore , the actuall possession it selfe , remaineth also perpetuall . Orthodoxus . Prooue in your antecedent , the perpetuitie of that commission . Exorcistes . Why sir ? there is no one expresse inhibition thereof in all the scriptures . Orthodoxus . Sith you so resolutely insist vpon the perpetuity of that commission : I entend to driue you away from that couert , by arguing ( from the tenour of that selfesame commission ) against you thus . If that commission giuen by Christ for repelling the actuall possession of diuels , be vndoutedly perpetuall in these daies of the Gospell : then the drinking of deadly poison , with warranted safety from all bodely harme , is also perpetuall . Good sir ? let vs foorthwith behold I beseech you in your owne person , an experimentall demonstration of this one thing , first : and we wil the rather beleeue you in all the rest . Philologus . Maister Exorcistes , you were much better ( in my simple conceite ) to giue ouer this argument quite : then be forced , thus to demonstrate the truth thereof to the world . Exorcistes . Not so . For , the whole contents of that selfesame commission , saue onely the expelling of diuels : were altogither temporary , and no waies perpetuall . Orthodoxus . Who dare auouch the perpetuitie of that actuall possession of Diuels : more then of any the rest ? Nay , who would not much rather account both it , and the rest of those the miraculous operations comprised iointly together in one and the selfesame commission , to be euerie of them vndoubtedly determined : because , those temporarie officers whereunto they properly appertained ( namely , Apostles , Prophets , Euangelists , and the seauentie disciples ) are long since determined . Who being euerie of them extraordinarie officers , receiued ( togither with the office it selfe ) extraordinarie grace and power from aboue , to accomplish the same . Whereas the ministeriall functions of Pastor and Doctor ( perpetually remaining to the ende of the world ) are both of them ordinarie functions : and therefore , to be ordinarily directed , disposed and guided , according to the ordinarie Constitutions , and Cannons contained in the word . Exorcistes . Notwithstanding the Pastor and Doctor be ( in verie deed ) but ordinarie officers : yet I doubt not at all , but that some certaine of them ( as seemeth good to the Lord ) may also be endued with an extraordinarie power and grace for repelling the actuall possession of diuels . Orthodoxus . Seeing you stand with such a setled pertinacie in your proper conceit , I doe argue against you a fresh on this sort : The extraordinarie power of casting out diuels , was peculiarly appropriated to Christ himselfe , and his owne disciples : therefore , the said extraordinarie power doth not ordinarily appertaine to any ordinarie ministerie succeeding that primitiue age . And , if no extraordinarie power for expelling the actuall possession of diuels remayneth perpetuall : then , neither the actuall possession it selfe remaineth perpetuall . Exorcistes . But , why should that extraordinarie power be peculiarly appropriated to Christ himselfe , and his owne disciples ? Orthodoxus . Because the verie maine endes of euerie such extraordinarie and miraculous worke , were to be accomplished especiallie , and onely by them . For first , our sauiour Christ being both God and man , but yet vtterly vnknowne to the world : it was therfore vndoubtedly meete , that he especially , and only he himselfe ( by some such extraordinarie and miraculous workes as none other might possibl●e do ) shoulde apparantly make knowne to the worlde , the admirable power of his Deitie . As also , his owne disciples , they being extraordinarily and specially appointed to preach and to plant the Gospel of Christ throughout the whole world : it was likewise vndoubtedly necessarie , that , the infallible truth of such heauenly doctrine so extraordinarily deliuered from them , should ( in an especiall regard of the strangenes thereof ) euen by those their extraordinarie actions also ( as by the supernaturall seales of the Almightie himselfe ( be perpetually established to the ende of the world . In an onely consideration whereof , euen , those their peculiar prerogatiues ( together with an extraordinarie abilitie in preaching the Gospell ) were especially , and onely bestowed on euerie of them , as verie plainely appeareth in the authenticall tenour of that selfe-same commission , saying , Goe preach to all people , and tell them the kingdome of heauen is at hand : heale the sicke , cleanse the leapers , raise vp the dead , and cast out diuels . Now then , this the aforesaid cōmission , with these peculiar graces & powers , being thus extraordinarily appropriated to the disciples themselues : they proceeded accordingly in an extraordinarie execution therof , & preached the Gospel euerie where , the Lord working together in euerie of them , and , confirming the word with miracles following . Exorcistes . Sir ? howsoeuer you seeme to determine the extraordinarie power for repelling the actuall possession of diuels , togither with the Disciples daies : yet , this I am certeine , that Iustinu● Martyr , Tertulian , Cyprian , Augustine also , and the Councel concluded at Bracha , doe all ioyntly affirme , that the working of miracles was verie ordinarilie practised in euerie of their times : yea , and it may plainly be gathered from the Ecclesiasticall histories , that the continuance thereof was found in the Church , for eight hundred yeeres after Christ at the least . Orthodoxus . They all write as you say , and the Ecclesiasticall histories also auouch the same : but , what inferre you thereof ? Exorcistes . I inferre from thence , the actuall possession of diuels in these daies of the Gospell . Orthodoxus . I perceiue no such inference thence : for this I suppose , is your argument . Iustinus Martyr , Cyprian , Tertullian , Augustine , the Councell of Bracha , and Ecclesiasticall histories doe all iointly auouch the continuance of miracles for eight hundred yeeres after Christ at the least : therefore the actuall possession also of diuels , so long time continued in vse . This , as it foloweth faire and farre of : so surely , it makes nothing at all for that actuall possession which you plead for your selfe , sixteene hundred yeeres since the comming of Christ. No surely , it doth rather conclude a finall determination thereof , aboue eight hundred yeeres past at the least . But be it , that the continuance also of actuall possession were iointly auouched by euerie of them for eight hundred yeeres after Christ : yet this , as it makes nothing ( I saie ) for the possession impleaded by you : so are we not necessarilie bound to beleeue whatsoeuer they write concerning such matters , we hauing both scriptures and probable reasons impugning the same . Againe , howsoeuer Iustinus , Tertulian , Cyprian , Augustine , the Councell of Bracha , and Ecclesiasticall histories do all iointly auouch the continuance of actuall possession in those times and places wherein they conuersed : yet no one of them all ( how holie or gracious soeuer ) do chalenge such extraordinarie power to themselues , or once write that they dispossessed satan of any one person by him possessed . And therefore they might be deceiued by some false supposall of an actuall possession pretended by others : and so ( by consequence ) that which they write concerning those matters , is of so much the lesse credit , by how much especially , there haue in euerie age of the Church , some seducers sprung vp , who ( for gaine or glorie ) pretending a special power from aboue , for the dispossessing of diuels , both might and did also therein deceiue the wisest of iudgement . Briefly , we are therein to beleeue their writings the lesse : because there be sundrie sorts of diseases in men now adaies , so like to the actuall possession of diuels , as verie fewe or none can hardly discerne the one from the other . Which falling foorth likewise in those former times , might easily drawe those good Fathers into a strange imagination of some actuall possession : there being in truth no such thing at all . Exorcistes . But tell me in good earnest I praie you , do you confidently denie vnto all men , an extraordinarie power for driuing foorth diuels in these daies of the Gospell ? Orthodoxus . Touching any thing hitherto heard I do I assure you . And , for a further confirmation I argue it further thus . If an extraordinary power for driuing foorth diuels be now giuen to any in these daies of the Gospel , the parties then who challenge such power , they must as directly declare that their speciall donation by some peculiar priuiledge from God , as did the disciples of Iesus Christ : My meaning is , that whosoeuer will challenge to themselues any extraordinary power for the working of miracles , they must first testify that power by their extraordinary graces in preaching the gospel , they themselues being before but vnlettered men : and they must also be able , euen as authentically to auouch for infallible truth whatsoeuer they preach , as were the disciples themselues , vpon whom was bestowed especially that peculiar commission , with extraordinary graces and powers to accomplish the same . Otherwise we may shrewdly suspect some legerdemaine in pretending any extraordinary seale : where the toong is not extraordinarily appointed before , the extraordinary pen of an extraordinary writer . For , seeing all extraordinary offices are fully and finally determined long since : we make no question , but the extraordinary graces and powers , attending especially those extraordinary offices , did cease together with the office it selfe . And therefore , there remaining now in the church , but ordinary officers , they ( at no hand ) may challenge any those extraordinary graces and powers beyond their reach ; but must ordinarily attend vpon such ordinary canons and rules , as the holy spirit puts downe for their ordination : and ( in an orderly execution of euery such office imposed vpon them ) they must by earnest study , meditation , and praier , except from God an especiall blessing vpon those their ordinary labours and trauels bestowed . Exorcistes . Howsoeuer the extraordinary offices , and officers are vndoutedly determined long since , as you seeme to auouch : I for my owne part , doe make no question at all , but that the diuels haue now ( in these daies of the gospel ) an actuall possession in some at the least : and that therefore , there is also an extraordinary power in some , to expel them from that their possession . Otherwaies , it were to to absurd , to graunt the continuance of such a disease in the church as the Lord hath reserued no remedie for . Orthodoxus . Thus then you reason . The disease it selfe is still continued : therefore , the remedie also thereof is still continued . I answere , your antecedent is but a pitiful begging of the cause in question . For , the continuance of actuall possession is the very thing we dispute of . We flatly deny it : and your selfe ( not hauing hitherto proued the same ) would now by way of entreaty , obtaine at our hands a grant thereof . Exorcistes . I entreate no such fauour at all ; but doe prooue it thus . All other matters else whereupon the miraculous faith of Christ his disciples did especially worke , namely deafenesse , dumbnesse , blindnesse and such like , haue stil their continuance in the church of God : therefore , the actuall possession of diuels ( comprehended in one and the selfesame commission with them ) it also is still continued in the church of God. Orthodoxus . I answere your antecedent thus . Deafenesse , dumbnesse , blindnesse and such like , they are not still continued in the church , as things actually effected by any extraordinary power of the diuel , but as matters naturally arising in men , by reason of some defect or redundancy in nature , or otherwaies , by meanes of some disordered humours , and such like vnnaturall accidents . Howbeit , the actuall possession we speake of , is no matter naturally arising in men , but a malady rather , that is actually , and immediately wrought by the power of the diuel himselfe . And therefore , this ( you see ) is no sound consequent vz. Infirmities naturally arising in men , are still of continuance in the church : therefore , the actuall possession of diuels , is still of continuance also . Here is no sequel at all . For , the one , I meane those naturall infirmities , they are but ordinary matters : the other , that is , the actuall possession of diuels , was an extraordinary malady , and had an extraordinary power to repell the same . Exorcistes . Sith you acknowledge the continuance of all saue onely that of actuall possession : there can be no question of the continuance also thereof , and I prooue it thus . If deafenes , dumbenes , blindnes , and such like ( being euerie of them in Christes time , the principall matter whereupon the miraculous faith did worke ) are yet ordinarie diseases continued still in these daies of the Gospell , and are onely now cured by Physicke , as by an ordinarie and naturall meanes appointed of God : then , the actuall passession of diuels ( it being also in Christ his time , one principall matter for the miraculous faith to worke vpon ) it also is now an ordinarie infirmitie continued still in these daies of the Gospell , and is only now to be cured by fasting and praier , as by an only ordinarie and naturall meanes appointed of God. But , the first is true in all experience : and therefore also the latter . Orthodoxus . Albeit I should grant you the truth of the first in all experience : yet , your consequent concluded thence , hath in it no appearance of truth , but is vndoubtedly an extrauagant and roauing conceite , nothing concludent in reason , but beyond the bounds and limits thereof . For , howsoeuer deafenes , dumbenes , blindenes , and such other occurrents in nature , be euerie of them ordinarie and naturall diseases , and are commonly cured by ordinarie medicines and other Physicall helpes , as by the ordinarie and naturall remedies appointed of God : the actuall possession of diuels neuer was , nor is now any ordinarie or natural infirmitie , but an extraordinarie torment , actually inflicted vpon some , by the extraordinarie power of the diuel , and therefore neuer yet was nor is now anie waies curable by ordinarie or naturall meanes , but , by an extraordinarie and supernaturall worke of God. So then , howsoeuer your selfe would seeme to make the actuall possession of diuels ( in these daies of the Gospel ) but an ordinarie , or naturall disease , and the supposed cure thereof by fasting and praier , to be now but an ordinarie and naturall remedie , perpetually establisht by God in his Church : yet in verie deed and in truth , the disease it selfe , and the cure also thereof by such meanes effected , are both of them extraordinarie and supernaturall matters , and so by consequence , a miracle surmounting the compasse of all ordinarie and naturall causes . Vnlesse haplie you imagine that the fasting and praiers performed by Exorcistes , are meere naturall matters , and haue in them naturally , some secret naturall vigour , naturally auaileable for the timely expelling of actuall possessions : euen as herbes , and physicall confections haue naturally in them such a naturall operation , as verie fitly accordeth to the timely curing of naturall infirmites . Howbeit , pretermitting the further discourse of this point , till we come to handle the power of dispossessing the diuell : do now obiect what you can for the matter in question , or , giue me leaue to proceed in the rest . Exorcistes . Proceed I pray you , and spare not . Orthodoxus . Wel then , against the continuance of actuall possession I argue further thus . Whatsoeuer in it selfe is perpetually existing , that also in it selfe is ordinarie and continually working . But the actuall possession of diuels ( in these daies of the Gospell ) is in it selfe neither ordinarie nor continually working : therefore , the actuall possession of diuels ( in these daies of the Gospell ) is in it selfe not perpetually existing . Exorcistes . I denie your proposition . Because something may be perpetually existing : which yet is neither ordinarie nor continuallie working : euen as we see by experience , that the brightnes and heate of the Sunne ( though the Sunne it selfe be perpetuallie existing ) yet , neither is the heate thereof ordinarie , nor the brightnesse continually working . Not at such times especially as there is an interposition of cloudes betweene the said Sunne and the earth : or when he which withdraweth his force from this our Horizon , and maketh his progresse among the Antipodes . Orthodoxus . How certeinly , or vncerteinly soeuer the Sunne may be said to continue his appointed progresse , very certeine I am , that the man who endeuoureth to folow your footings at euery turne , shal be sure to finish his owne progresse in an endlesse laborinth . For , how should the actuall possession of diuels by possibly perpetuall , and not be ordinary in it selfe , nor continually working ? Sith that which is perpetually existing , must needes in it selfe , be ordinary , and continually effecting some manner of worke . Besides that , you your owne selfe ( euen in your last answere but one ) did confidently conclude the actuall possession of diuels , to be none other thing now , but an ordinary infirmity , very ordinarily inflicted vpon the church : and the cure also thereof , is to be ordinarily effected by fasting and praier , as by the ordinary meanes appointed of God. Vpon which your assertion , I framed this my last argument against the perpetuitie of actuall possession : whereunto you doe now verie impudently opposse your selfe , by denying the very point you propounded before . Giuing vs thereby to vnderstand by the way , that ( howsoeuer you want a liers memorie ) your toong would be lauish enough : if your teeth would but giue it the scope , to be ranging abroade . Exorcistes . I onely opposed my selfe to your maior proposition , and ( besides our present question , concerning the perpetuitie of actuall possession ) I did further demonstrate the matter , by giuing a fitte instance , borrowed from the brightnes and heat of the sunne . Orthodoxus . A verie fitte instance in deed . For , euen by that selfesame instance wherewith your selfe would demonstrate your matter : I my selfe doe also entend to remonstrate the truth of my argument . Whereas therefore you doe freely acknowledge , that the actuall possession of diuels may ( in deed ) be perpetually existing , but yet , neither ordinarie , nor continually working : giuing vs also an experimentall demonstration thereof ( as you imagine ) from the materiall sunne , which , howsoeuer the same in it selfe be perpetually existing , yet , neither is the heat thereof ordinarie , nor the brightnes continually shining . Mine answere is , that , euen as by taking brightnes and heat from the sunne , you doe ( in effect ) denie the sunne it selfe to be perpetually existing , because , heat and brightnes are essentiall qualities inseparably inherent , and perpetually knit with the sunne : so surely , by denying the ordinarie and continuall working of actuall possession , you doe consequently conclude , that euen the actuall possession it selfe is not perpetually existing . Because the actuall possession of diuels , all the while it is an actuall possession in any existence : so long ( at the least ) the same must needs ( in it selfe ) be ordinarie , and wil effectually performe some actuall experiment . Otherwaies , how may that be truely termed an actuall possession , which doth not agere aliquid : not accomplish ( I meane ) some one act or other . Notwithstanding all this , you labour to vphold the likelyhood of this your imagined instance , by two speciall cautions : the one taken from an interposition of cloudes , the other from the sunne his conuersing among the antipodes . To what purpose these cautions should serue , I perceiue not as yet , vnlesse ( as it seemes by the purporte of your speech ) you would giue vs a watchword , & thereby illustrate vnto vs : that howsoeuer the actuall possession of diuels be in it owne selfe perpetually existing , yet , the same is ( in effect ) neither ordinary , nor continually working . And why so I beseech you ? Because the diuell ( forsooth ) at some one time or other , may happily be playing bo-peepe with the partie behinde a couerled : or may bid vs here in England farewell for a season , while he goe and conuerse among the Cannibals . Howbeit , vnlesse you be able directly to demonstrate vnto vs , that there may be some odde time or other wherein the sunne it selfe , neither in this our horîzon , nor among the antipodes hath his ordinarie course , or is continually shining : doe pardon vs ( I pray you ) though we ( in the meane while ) begin to imagine , that your wits ( by roauing at random among the antipodes ) be turned topsie-turuie , and permit vs withall to conclude as before , that , because the actuall possession of diuels is in it selfe , neither ordinarie , nor continually working , therefore the same in it selfe is not perpetually existing . Lycanthropus . Expresse more plainely vnto vs , what you meane by the termes of ordinarie : and continually working . Orthodoxus . My meaning is , that , if actuall possession ( as the Exorcist affirmeth ) be now in these daies of the Gospell , an infirmitie inflicted perpetually vpon the Church , as are also those other diseases contained iointly with it in one and the same commission : the same vndoubtedly ( as are all the rest ) woulde be much more ordinarie with vs then now it is . I meane , it would bemuch more frequent and often , at manie moe times , in manie moe places , and among manie moe persons then we see it to be . Yea , and it would vndoubtedly , be so much more ordinarie then anie of the rest : by how much more malitiously the diuel compasseth the earth , and goeth continually about , seeking whom to deuour . Whereas the actuall possession which Exorcistes pretendeth , is a thing ( now a daies ) so vnwoonted , and so rare in experience , as , verie hardly it is heard of in twentie yeeres space . Yea , and when the same is generally supposed , to be presently apparant in some : yet , the same euen then , is so vncerteinlie knowne vnto men , as , the verie parties themselues , ( of their owne knowledge ) are vnable to say they be possessed of diuels , neither ( if they were not earnestly perswaded vnto it , by some of the Exorcistes trade ) would they euer imagine , any possession at all . And therefore ( howsoeuer you dreame of the perpetuitie of actuall possession ) the same ( you see ) cannot truely be saide to be ordinarie : but rather , an extraordinarie , and supernaturall matter , surmounting the order and course of nature . Philologus . Surely sir , I am iust of your minde , that , if actuall possession were now , as ordinarie with diuels , as are diseases with men : such and so great is their malice , we should foorthwith haue the whole world actually possessed at least . Exorcistes . That foloweth not . For , howsoeuer the actuall possession of diuels be perpetually ordinarie in these daies of the Gospell : yet is the same no further effectuall then God hath appointed . Orthodoxus . Perceiue you not the absurditie of your speech , in auouching a perpetuall action , without an effect ? Howbeit because you relie so much vpon the perpetuitie of actuall possession . I doe argue further against you thus . Whatsoeuer power our sauiour Christ hath vndoubtedly determined long since ; no man may now hold the same in opinion , nor conscionablie auouch the perpetuitie thereof . But that extraordinarie power which concernes the actuall possession of diuels , Christ hath determined long since : therefore that extraordinarie power of actuall possession , no man may now hold in opinion , nor con●cionablie auouch the perpetuitie thereof . Exorcistes . Prooue your assumption . Orthodoxus . I prooue it directly , from a proportionable respect of the two maine endes of such a possession , namely , the declaration of Christs Deitie , & the confirmation of his glorious Gospell : both which two endes are determined long since , and therefore , the extraordinarie possession of diuels which were especially for those two ends , it also is vndoubtedly ceased . The determination of the latter , ( I meane the confirmation of the glorious Gospell ) shall heereafter be handled at large , when we come to entreat of the ceasing of miracles : in the meane time , this I doe boldly auouch , namelie , that the extraordinarie possession for the other maine ●nd ( namely the declaration of the glorious deitie ) is long since by Christ determined . Exorcistes . When , & where hath Christ determined the extraordinarie possession of diuels , concerning that speciall end ? Orthodoxus . Euen then , and there , where he telleth vs plainely , that , nowe is the iudgement of this world : now shall the prince of this worlde be cast out . Foretelling directly vnto vs , that ( immediately after his death and resurrection ) the extraordinarie , & actuall power of satans possession , should receiue a full , and finall subuersion , as a thing now meerely superfluous to worke vpon , for any further declaration of his glorious Deitie . Exorcistes . Good sir , by your leaue , you do greatly mistake the meaning of that Scripture . For Christ ( by the aduerbe of time , or particle ( now ) doth not precisely , and purposely restraine the final determination of actuall possession , vnto any predeterminate or speciall time : but , thereby doth rather insinuate the perpetuall efficacie of that his own effectuall working power , which ( by the powerfull preaching of his glorious Gospell ) should after his death successiuely shew it selfe vpon Satan , to the verie ende of the world . Orthodoxus . I perceiue you need no Gentleman vsher : for , you can take leaue ( without leaue ) to censure the exposition I giue of that Scripture , by quallifying the literall sense of the particle ( now . ) Which in that place ( you say ) importeth no predeterminate or speciall time : but onely hath reference vnto the successiue working power of Christ ( executed by the powerful preaching of the gospel ) to the end of the world . In deed , I do willingly gra●t that the effectuall working power of Christ , neither doth , nor may possibly determine to the end of the world : for , hee must effectually reigne , till he hath ( actually ) subiected all his enimies vnder his feete . But withall , I do flatly denie the continuance of satan his power of actuall possession to the end of the world : neither may such manner of inference be possiblie enforced from thence . For , what a dalliance is this ? Christ his effectuall working power , must successiuely shewe foorth it selfe vpon satan to the end of the world : therefore the actuall possession of satan , must not , nor may not determine to the end of the world . As though , if the actuall possession of diuels should now finalli● cease , and determine : the effectuall power of Christ could finde nothing at all in satan to worke vpon . But tell me ( I pray you ) had not the diuell at the first of all , a power of possession : and a power of obsession permitted vnto him ? And was , and is he not industrious enough in the execution of both from time to time ? Let continuall experience speake in this point . Now then , if the effectual working power of Christ hath actually , & fully subdued the first : may therefore the efficacy of that his said power remaine now vtterly idle from time to time , notwithstanding any the fiery assaults or harmes which might grow from the latter ? I suppose , nothing lesse . For , remember you not that old saying ? It is as much to keepe an hold : as was before to win the hold . Hence therefore , it is very apparant , that , as the effectuall working power of Christ , hath extraordinarily and actually shewed foorth it selfe vpon satan , by suppressing for euer his power of actuall possession : so surely , the efficacy of that his said power , must now successiuely shew foorth it sefe vpon satan to the end of the world , by repelling his power of obsession , I meane by withstanding his outragious assaults , his cunning circumuentions , his subtile tentations , and by quenching the force of his fiery darts for euer , through the powerfull preaching of his glorious gospel . So then , howsoeuer the continuance of Christs power be granted vnto you : yet , vnlesse you be able withall , very substantially to prooue the perpetuity of satan his actuall possession , you speake nothing at all to the purpose . Exorcistes . Sir ? howsoeuer I may seeme vnable to mannage the common sence which men giue of that place : I perceiue no reason as yet , of your owne exposition . Orthodoxus . Let vs therefore labour the clearing thereof , by this folowing order . First , let vs carefully examine those places of scripture : which ( both before , and after the manifestation of Christ in the flesh ) do purposely entreate of his effectuall working power vpon satan . The next , let vs more exactly analyze that portion of scripture which we propounded euen now : to prooue the final determination of satan his power of actuall possession . And then lastly , let vs endeuour to confirme our said exposition , by the testimony of writers , both old , and new . All this beeing fully effected : the truth of the matter will breake foorth ( I doubt not ) like the Sun in his strength . Lycanthropus . A very excellent order : I pray you proceed in the same . Orthodoxus . With very good will. First therefore , concerning those seuerall scriptures which purposely handle the effectuall working power of Christ , before his manifestation in the flesh : we haue to consider , that the Lord God immediately after the fall of man , did ( for the comfort of the godly , and terrour of satan ) foretell to them both , that , the seed of the woman should bruse the serpents head . In which place , he precisely puts downe one speciall act , to be actually effected by Christ vpon satan , namely the actual subduing of his actual dominion , vnderstood ( in that place ) by the serpents head : and , purposely refers the actuall accomplishment thereof to the future time , saying thus . The seed of the woman ( not doth , or hath ) but rather ( shall ) bruse the serpents head . That is , in processe of time , shall euen actually ouercome the said power of the diuel : hauing also therein , a more speciall relation to the very death of our sauiour Christ , vnderstood ( in that place ) by the brusing of his heele . Now then , from the due consideration hereof , I doe argue thus , namely , that euen as , howsoeuer the diuell may be said to wage war with Christ and his members from time to time , yet , there was one special time predetermined of God , wherein the said diuel was actually to bruse the heele of our sauiour , and that vndoutedly was the very ti●e of Christ his suffering vpon the crosse , whereupon , the diuel accordingly did put into Iudas his hart to betray his maister : so surely , howsoeuer Christ and his members may be said to infringe effectually , the diuel his tyrannicall power from time to time to the end of the world , yet was there one speciall time foreappointed of God , wherein Christ alone was actually to breake the serpents head , and that vndoubtedly , was the very selfesame time wherein Satan brused his heele , I meane the verie time of Christs sufferings , when he said , it is finished . Exorcistes . Why doe you so exactly restraine , the conquest of Christ ouer Satan , vnto the onely time of his sufferings : sith he was , the lambe slaine from the beginning of the world ? Orthodoxus . I restraine not the efficacie , but the very act of Christs conquest , to the onely time of his suffrings . Moreouer , although it be truely said that Christ was the Lambe slaine from the beginning of the world ; yet , that must not be vnderstoode of anie actuall , but of an effectuall sacrificing of Christ , to so manie as in all ages and times doe apprehend the efficacie of his said sacrifice by a liuely faith , which is the victorie whereby they ouercome the world . If therefore , you vnderstand the aforesaid place of an actuall sacrificing of Christ , from the beginning to the end of the world : then surely , your speech is not onely , to to absurd , but withal , it crosseth directly the holie Ghost elsewhere : who telleth vs plainly , that ( if an actuall sacrificing of Christ be there vnderstood ) then Christ must often haue suffred from the worlds foundation . Besides that , it doth quite ouerthrowe the dignitie of Christ his priesthood , aboue the Leuitical priesthood : which is there set foorth by many comparisons thus . The Leuiticall high priest , he sacrificed in a corruptible tabernacle : but Christ in the tabernacle of his owne bodie . He sacrificed with strange bloud : but Christ with his owne bloud . He entred into the sanctuary made with hands : but Christ into heauen it self . He appeared before the materiall Arke : but Christ before God his father . He euerie yeere once , iterated his sacrifice : whereas Christ ( offering himselfe but once for al ) abolished sinne altogither , as wel of the former , as of the ages to come . Then ( after all this ) he renders a reason why Christ could actually but once be sacrificed ; namely , because he could actually but once be crucified . And in the end he cōfidently concludes , that , howsoeuer Christ was but once actually sacrificed , yet , the vertue and efficacie of his said sacrifice , did , and doth effectually extend it selfe to the sinnes which were before , and to the sinnes which succeeded his sufferings . So then ( notwithstanding whatsoeuer you obiect ) you may plainely perceiue , that , euen as albeit Christ his said sacrifice hath euer beene , and euer shal be effectual from time to time , yet , there was one speciall time foreappointed of God , wherein his said sacrifice was actually effected : so surely , that although the effectuall working power of Christ , hath beene , and is euer effectuall from time to time against the power of actuall possession , yet there was vndoubtedly one speciall time wherein the saide power of actuall possession was by Christ actually annihilated , and that was the verie time of Christ his manifestation in the flesh , when as ( by the verie force of his suffrings ) he brake the serpents head . Hereunto also the Euangelist Luke verie aptly accordeth saying . When a strong armed man keepeth his house , the things that he possesseth are in peace : but , when a stronger then he commeth vpon him , and ouercommeth him , he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted , and deuideth the spoiles . The Euangelist there , doth allegorically depaint vnto vs the condition , dominion , and practise of satan . For by the strong armed man , he meaneth the diuell . By his house , he vnderstandeth generally the world , and more particularly , the parties actually possessed . By peaceable possession , the power and swaie of his tyrannicall dominion . By the stronger , he vnderstandeth Christ that victorious lyon of the tribe of Iudah . By the binding of him , the irrecouerable weakening of his power of obsession . By the taking away of the armour wherein he trusted , the vtter annihilating of his power of possession . Lastly , by deuiding the spoiles , he meaneth the timely restauration of all poore possessed soules , to the kingdome and seruice of Christ , according to that which Christ saith , now is the iudgement of this world . Vnderstanding thereby , the iudgement of discretion : not the iudgement of damnation , as if Christ should say thus . Now is that selfesame time of the worlds reformation at hand : wherein shall be plainely discerned the chosen seruants of God , from the confounded slaues of Satan . Because , now shall the prince of this world be actually cast out : by the effectuall power of my death and resurrection . Thus then , we haue briefly heard those speciall scriptures : which doe purposely point at the effectuall working power of Christ before his death . Lycanthropus . Let vs heare in like sort , those other scriptures , which doe purposely handle the said effectuall power of Christ ; now since his death . Orthodoxus . Content . First therefore , the holy Ghost saith thus to the Hebrewes . For as much as the children are pertakers of flesh and bloud , Christ also himselfe tooke part with them : that he might destroy through death , him that had power ouer death , that is , the diuell . Wherein , first ( you see ) he puts downe the incarnation of Christ : and then next , he sheweth the maine cause of his saide incarnation , namely , that he might destroy the diuell . Now then , this same destruction of the diuell , it must in no wise be vnderstood of the essence : but of the actions of Satan . For , the diuell ( as touching his essence or ▪ being ) still liueth , and liue must for euer . Howbeit concerning his actions , I meane his tyrannicall dominion , and actuall power : he may verie fitly be said to be now destroied . Because , howsoeuer satan be accounted a prince of this world , and therefore endeuoureth verie proudly to dominire ouer all : yet , when he came vnto Christ , he found nothing at all in him , that is no such matter of subiection as he happily imagined . Neither could he possibly haue any power ouer him at all , or , no further power at the most , then the brusing of Christ his heele , I meane , the crucifying of his flesh . And , this one worke of satan , was that which accidentally procured his proper destruction . For , therefore did Christ take flesh vpon him , that , euen in the flesh , he might conquere him who had conquered flesh : and through death might destroy him that had power ouer death , namely , the diuell , as was shewed before . And this , as it hath reference to the actions , and not the essence of satan : so shall it giue much light to the matter in hand , if we precisely examine the verie word it selfe which the holy Ghost here obserueth . For , he saith not , that Christ hath abated , infringed , or weakened , but that he hath destroied the diuell : that is , that he hath vtterly cut off , exiled , and banished his tyrannicall dominion . For , so much the word tsamath importeth , which signifieth to chaine vp , to exterminate , to driue out , and in such sort to consume a thing , as there remaineth no hope at all of anie possible recouerie . Yea , and the Greeke word catargeo , portendeth fully as much . Now then , howsoeuer Christ may truely be said to haue destroied the diuell : yet , this word ( destruction ) hath not properly any reference to the essence of satan , for , therein he liueth , and liue must for euer , as hath beene declared . Neither may it be fitly applied to Satan his power of obssession , which is not yet vtterly destroied : for thereby , he assaulteth , circumuenteth , and tempteth men still to the end of the world . And therefore , it must necessarily , and more especially be appropriated to his power of possession , which was not onely much maimed , but vtterly destroied by the death of our Sauiour : although yet we denie not , but that this vtter destruction , both may be , and is also ( in some sort ) vnderstood of the whole dominion and power of the diuell whatsoeuer . All which his said powers , were so mightily weakened by the sufferings and resurrection of Christ : as , thereby he shall neuer be able any more now to hurt the elect . Because Christ ( taking part with them in the flesh ) hath destroied through death , him that had power ouer death , namely the diuell . And , hereunto accordeth that which the holy Ghost elsewhere auoucheth , saying , that Christ hath appeared , to loosen , dissolue , or destroy the workes of the diuell . Exorcistes . That ( destruction ) is to be vnderstood of annihilating the venim and sting of sinne and death : and not of a finall determining of satan his power of actuall possession . Orthodoxus . Herein your speech is derogatorious to the efficacie and dignitie of Christs death , in that ( by restrayning the same as you doe , to the onely annihilating of the venemous sting of sinne and of death ) you vtterly exclude the effectual working power thereof , from the actuall determination of satan his actuall possession . For , consider you not what peculiar action therein , the Scriptures impose vpon Christ ? First , he hath been from the worlds foundation , peculiarly appointed of God , to be that promised seede which should bruse the serpents head . Then next , he is vndoubtedly that stronger man , who was to binde the strong armed man : and to deuide his spoiles . Both which places , as they plainly import some peculiar action to be performed by Christ : so doe they vndoubtedly , binde the actuall accomplishment thereof vpon his owne person alone , and that also euen in the future time . Then ( after the fulnes of time , our Sauiour Christ being come in the flesh ) he flatly affirmeth , that euen now shall the prince of this world be cast out . Limitting ( you see ) the actuall effecting of that selfesame peculiar action ( so foretold as before ) vnto the present time of his sufferings . Moreouer , after the actuall accomplishment thereof by his death , the holy Ghost else where affirmeth accordingly , that he hath by death , destroied him who had power ouer death : and againe , that Christ hath appeared to destroy the works of the diuel . Both which last places of scripture , as they plainely import some speciall action effected by Christ in the preter time , as did those other before in the future time : so surely Christ ( after he was come in the flesh ) did likewise alotte the actuall performance thereof vnto that present time of his death , wherein he was actually to finish his predetermined conquest ouer satan himselfe . Now then , this said actuall accomplishment of some special action thus actually effected by Christ : must necessarily haue a speciall reference to the finall determination either of Satan his power of possession , or of his power of obsession . But , not of his power of obsession , for therin he still assaulteth and tempteth mens minds : and therefore , of his power of possession , as was shewed before . Lycanthropus . Let this suffice for the sence of those seueral scriptures , which ( both before , and since the comming of Christ ) do point foorth vnto vs his effectuall working power vpon satan : and now , I pray you analyse that selfesame scripture you propounded of late , to prooue the finall determination of satan his actuall possession . Orthodoxus . Content . Wherein you haue to consider first , that , our sauiour Christ , in saying , Now is the iudgement of this world , now shall the prince of this world be cast out : had an especiall regard to that earnest petition which certeine greekes a little before , did personally put vp vnto Andrew , saying . Good sir ? we also our selues , would gladly see that same Iesus , whom the world so egerly affecteth and followeth . Andrew no sooner perceiued their sute , but he acquainted Phillip therewith : and , they both together propounded the whole matter to Iesus . Now then Iesus , considering ( in the zeale of those greekes ) how all nations affected his preaching and miracles , and came flocking vnto him : he answered Andrew and Philip thus . I perceiue by all signes , that the very hower it selfe is now come , wherein the sonne of man must be glorified in the actuall manifestation of his effectuall power vpon satan by his sufferings and death . Which his said death ( I assure you ) must now necessarily succeed , to the actuall accomplishment of that actuall conquest : a very liuely resemblance whereof you may plainely behold in the wheate corne . Which , vnlesse it doth fall into the ground and die , abideth alone : but , if it doe die , it bringeth foorth abundance of fruit . And euen so , if this body of mine were once wrapped within the bowels of the earth by the dart of death , there would vndoutedly spring many moe branches from thence : as from that liuing roote which quickneth many to eternall life . Neither let any be so dismaied with the sight of my death : as that therefore , they themselues would not gladly vnde●goe the like shame of the crosse . For , whosoeuer is so taken vp with the loue of this life , as he would not ( for my sake ) be throughly willing to put ouer the same to the extreamest aduentures of all : that man ( without question ) shall loose his life . Whereas they that ( for my sake ) doe make themselues ready to forgoe ( if neede so require ) their very life in this world : they shal be sure to preserue the same to eternall life . Yea , and euen you also your selues , whom I haue especially chosen my ministers , to declare my said death to the world : if in your said ministery you desire to serue me aright , you likewise must willingly follow me your Lord and Maister , now leading this dance vnto death . For , wheresoeuer I am ; there must my ministers willingly be . Neither haue I any other purpose in suffering death for you : but , to giue you an example to follow my steps . Wherein if you readily serue me , assure your selues that , then , my father in heauen will honour you highly . In deed , this corporall death ( I confesse ) is extreamely fearefull to flesh and bloud . For , euen my very soule ( I assure you ) is so intollerably tormented with the terrours thereof , as I would earnestly entreate my father , that the approching hower of this my death , might presently passe away : were it not that euen therefore I came vnto this hower . In consideration of which my determined death , I will the more earnestly endeuour my selfe , to vndergoe with patience , the whole bickering whatsoeuer , by crying incessantly vnto my father , and saying : Oh father , glorifie thy owne name in these my appointed sufferings . Moreouer , to the end you may plainely perceiue the fruits of my praier : you your selues shal be eare witnesses of my father his answere from heauen , saying . My son , I haue both glorified it before in thy conception , thy birth , thy baptisme , thy fasting , thy preaching , and miracles : and I will now glorify it againe , in thy death , and resurrection : because therein shal be actually effected the finall ouerthrow of satan his kingdom . And , howsoeuer the people here present may happely imagine this sound from heauen to be but a thunder , or some voice of an Angel at the most : yet I assure you , it is the very thundring speech of my father himselfe . Neither came this voice onely because of my selfe : but for your sakes especially . To teach you assuredly , that , euen now is the iudgement , and reformation of this world : because , euen now must the prince of this world be actually cast foorth from thence , as touching his actuall possession . Yea , and this so glorious a conquest ouer satan : must euen now be actually effected by the power of my death wherein , if I were once lift vp from the earth and fastned withall vpon the crosse : I would then actually determine the actuall dominion of the diuel , yea , and would effectually draw his captiuated prisoners vnder my princely regiment . Now , all this haue I purposely spoken vnto you , to shew you before hand , what death I must die : that , so soone as you perceiue me to giue vp the ghost , you may then certeinely assure your selues , that the whole worke of your redemption from satan , from death ▪ and from hell is actually effected & finished . Thus much for analysing the text it selfe . Wherin you haue heard the occasion , coherence , proceeding , and the orderly conclusion of all the premisses . Lycanthropus . The exposition is plaine , in my simple conceite : let vs therefore now heare the testimonie of writers for further confirmation thereof . Orthodoxus . You shall . And first , to begin with Augustine , he saith , that ( by the iudgement of the world ) we must there vnderstand , not the iudgement of damnation , which is reserued to the last day : but , the iudgement of discretion , which consisteth wholie in reforming the worlde by the expelling of Satan . For , the diuell ( saith he ) possessed mankinde , and held them guiltie of punishment : through the handwriting of sinne . He did dominier in the harts of Infidels , and drewe them ( being deceiued and captiuated ) to worship the creature : by forsaking the Creator . Howbeit , through that selfesame faith of Christ which ( by his death and resurrection ) was ( actually ) established , and through his precious bloud which was shedde for remission of sinnes : a thousand beleeuers being then ( actually ) freed from the power of the diuell , were ( effectually ) coupled to the bodie of Christ , and by the operation of his spirit , became liuely members of his mysticall bodie . For , so Christ expounds himselfe in the very next words saying , Now is the prince of this worlde cast foorth . Vnderstanding by the particle ( now ) that which was then to bee done at his death : not that which he was finally to accomplish at the generall iudgement . The Lord therefore foresawe that worke , which he knewe should be effected after his death and glorification : namely , that many thousands throughout the world , should faithfully beleeue in his death . From whose harts , the diuel who worketh effectually in thē before : should ( actually ) be driuen out by Christs death , and finally be subdued through faith in his name . Exorcistes . The diuell then ( it should seeme by your speech ) was neuer driuen foorth from the patriarkes , before the passion of Christ. Orthodoxus . Not so : For Christ was the Lambe slaine from the beginning of the world . Neither speake we in this place of the effectual : but , of the actuall conquest which he made ouer Satan . Yea , and this I further auouch , that euen as the particle ( now ) in an especiall regard of Christes actuall conquest , respecteth especially the verie hower of his death : so surely ( in some consideration also of Christs effectuall eonquest ) the said particle ( now ) may likewise haue a more speeiall reference to the verie hower it selfe of that his said death . Because howsoeuer the efficacie of that his effectuall conquest , hath ( from the beginning of the world beene alwaies effectuall : yet the vertue and power thereof did more effectually shewe foorth it selfe at the death and resurrection of Christ , then euer before . And euen thus is that place to be vnderstood which Christ elsewhere propoundeth , saying , that the holy Ghost was not yet giuen : because Christ was not yet glorified . Not , that the holy Ghost was neuer giuen to the fathers before , for holy men of God , spake euer as they were mooued by the holy Ghost : but that hee was neuer so vniuersally , nor so effectually giuen as after , when he was in all abundance powred forth vpon the Apostles , vpon old men and children . Euen so , the diuell in like manner he was vndoubtedly cast foorth of the fathers from time to time by the effectuall conquest of Christ : but yet , neuer so vniuersally nor so effectually driuen forth , as after that actuall conquest of Christ on the crosse . Exorcistes . If the diuell be now so vniuersally , and so effectually cast foorth from the faithfull as your selfe doe auouch : then the faithfull ( it seemes ) are now free from temptations . Orthodoxus . That foloweth not . For , howsoeuer the diuell his actual possession be actually expelled : yet ceaseth he not stil to assault & to tempt the children of God. Howbeit , it is one thing to raigne inwardly , and another to assault outwardly . For the best defenced cities of all , are eftsoones of the enimie besieged : yea and somtimes verie hotly assaulted . Notwithstanding , though the diuel doth daily cast foorth his fierie darts : we are spiritually armed with the complete armour of God. Yea , and if at any time we hap to be wounded : the Physicion hee is euer at hand to cure our soules . For , what pray we for else , when we say , Forgiue vs our trespasses : but onely that our woundes may be healed ? And what other thing else doe we aske , when we say , Lead vs not into temptation : but , that he which besiegeth , and assaulteth vs outwardly , may neuer breake in vpon vs on any side , neither yet , by any fraude or force may be able to conquer a fresh ? So then , albeit the diuell doth practise his policies daily against vs : yet , forsomuch as he hath nowe no abiding place in that hart where faith is resiant : he may fitly be saide to be both actually , and effectually now cast foorth . Hitherto Augustine . Exorcistes . Proceede in propounding the rest of your writers . Orthodoxus . I will. Next therefore for Chrysostome , he saith , Nowe shall the prince of this world be cast foorth : that is ( saith he ) be tumbled downe headlong . For the diuell , who ( before that time ) did domineir , and beare the whole swaie in the world : shall nowe be ouerthrowne , and violently cast foorth as it were with a sling , at the passion of Christ. Againe , Theophilact , vpon these wordes ( Now is the iudgement of this world ) writeth thus . This ( saith he ) doth fitly accord with the premisses . For , the father protesting before from heauen , that he would glorifie his name againe : Christ sheweth heere , the maner how his said name should be glorified . Namelie , when as ( by casting foorth the prince of this world ) the worlde should be iudged , that is , reuenged of satan . For , this casting forth , is a metaphor , taken from such as ( being iustly condemned in iudgements ) are actually cast foorth from the tribunall seate . Or , by this casting foorth may be vnderstoode the exiling of satan into the externall darkenesses : because now he hath lost his dominion ouer the faithfull . Neither shall hee euer be permitted to raigne ( as before ) within men , I meane , either in their mindes , or their mortall bodies : for I will ( saith Christ ) now draw all men vnto my selfe . Howbeit , because men cannot pos●iblie be brought vnto me , all the while they are captiuated , and fast bound by that tyrant : Hauing therefore thus ( actually ) conquered satan , cast him foorth , and broken a sunder the yron barres of his power by my death : I will now ( effectually ) draw all men vnto me , in despite of his teeth . Againe , Lyra saith thus . Now is the iudgement of this world : that is , the iudgement for this worlde . Because ( saith he ) the world nowe , by the definitiue sentence of God , and through the power of Christs death , is ( actually ) deliuered from the power of the diuell . And therefore it foloweth , that , now the prince of this worlde shall be cast foorth by the passion of Christ. By the power of which passion is set open vnto vs the gate vnto glory , so that the diuell can now no more hinder the saints from the consequution of glorie , as he did in times past : although it be permitted him still to tempte , for the triall and exercise of all the elect . Againe , Hugo saith thus . Now is the iudgement of this world : because ( saith Christ ) the diuell ( by my death and passion ) being now ( actually ) destroied , many poore soules shall be deliuered from him . And a little after he saith . Nowe shall the prince of this world be cast foorth : that is , be ( actually ) driuen out of the harts of men , by the death and passion of Christ. Againe , the master of the sentences , doth plainly auouch , that , the diuels , they haue not nowe , the selfesame power ouer men : which they enioyed before the comming of Christ. Againe , Ludulph saith thus . Nowe is the iudgement of this world , ( nowe ) that is , euen in this verie time of my passion ( is the iudgement ) not of condemnation , but of discretion . ( Of this world ) that is , for this world against satan : because , now shal this world be iudged , seperated , and deliuered from the power of darkenes , that is , from the dominion of the diuel . And , this is that iudgement of discretion : whereby verie many are plainely discerned , and seperated now , from the power of the enimy . For since the verie time of Christes death : the faithfull beleeuers , are apparantly espied from the obstinate infidels . And then after , he sheweth the effect of that selfesame iudgement which concerneth the world , saying thus . Now , the prince of this world ( the diuell I meane ) who from Adam , hitherto , hath borne the whole swaie in this world : shall be cast foorth , that is , from the elect , and shall loose his power of drawing men after him anie more . After all this , our Sauiour ( saith Ludulph ) declareth the maner of his death and resurrection , in this sort . And I , if I were once lift vp , would draw all men vnto me . As , if he shoulde saie thus ; That selfesame loue which I shew forth by my death : it hath in it , a certaine attractiue vertue , or power of drawing mens mindes vnto me : euen as the Adamant stone hath in it selfe , an hidden force , to draw yron vnto it . Againe Bucer saith thus . Things amisse , in iudgements , are vsually corrected and changed . Nowe then , the diuell that strong armed man ( carefullie keeping his pallace : ) before time did quietly exercise his tyrannie ouer the world . But being nowe , to be ( actually ) cast foorth from the harts of so many as dedicate their names vnto Christ : this Christ by the verie power of his death hath ( actually ) conquered his tyrannie . And , therefore the holie Ghost saith truely , that , nowe is the iudgement of this world : that is , euen now , and foorthwith , shal the reformation thereof , be effected . Againe , Musculus ( vpon these wordes , Now is the iudgement of this world ) saith thus . The Lord ( in these words ) doth seeme to vnfold the meaning of that heauenly voice , which spake thus , a little before . I haue glorified my name alreadie : and , wil glorifie it againe . For , what is it else to illustrate the name of God , in this world : but , to beate downe , and destroy the kingdome of Satan , the prince of this world ? And because this ouerthrow of Satan , was to be ( actually ) effected , by that selfesame death which Christ did then suffer for the redemption of the world ; therefore he saith not , there shall be a iudgement of this world : but , now is the iudgement of this world . Neither saith he the prince of this world ( shall be ) but , now is cast out . Againe , maister Caluin , vpon these words , Now is the iudgment of this world : writeth thus . By the worde ( iudgement ) some vnderstand the reformation , and some , the condemnation of the world : the first accordeth better with the purpose of Christ , because the world ( by his death ) was then to be brought into a lawfull order . For the Hebrew word Mishpat , which is here interpreted iudgement : betokeneth a right , and a lawfull constitution of things . Howbeit , we haue to consider , that without Christ there is nothing in the world but meere confusion . Although therefore , that Christ before ( by his preaching and miracles ) began to erect the kingdome of God : yet for all that , his verie death it selfe , was the true beginning of a rightly compounded state , and the full restauration of the worlde . Notwithstanding , this withall would be noted , namely , that the worlds reformation , it cannot possiblie be effected : but the kingdome of satan must first be abolished , but flesh ( and what else soeuer withstandeth the iustice of God ) must first be subdued . Christ therefore pronounceth the prince of this world to be nowe cast foorth : because all dissipation , and deformitie proceedeth from him . For , so long as satan doth exercise his tyrannie : so long , there doth violently breake foorth all maner of iniquitie . So then Satan is no sooner cast foorth , but the world is forthwith recalled from her reuolted estate , to the well ordered kingdome of Christ. Againe Hemingius vpon these words , the holy Ghost shall reprooue the world of iudgement , because the prince of this world is iudged already , saith thus . The world that made a mock of Christ , and willed him ( if he were the sonne of God ) to come downe from the crosse : by the holy ghost who fell vpon the disciples at the feast of Pentecost , was flatly conuinced , that ( in so doing ) they iudged vniustly of Christ. For , the holy ghost ( saith Christ ) shall then cause them to vnderstand and perceiue in deed , that I ( hauing conquered the diuel by my death and resurrection ) do now exercise ( by your ministery ) an absolute authority ouer the world : in that none are now able to withstand the wisedome which speaketh so effectually in euery of you . This ( saith Hemingius ) is the very sence of this place : if especially we refer ( as we ought ) the fulfilling therof , to the efficacy and power of the holy ghost , apparantly resting vpon the Apostles at the feaste of Pentecost . To be short , Gualter , vpon these words , they brought vnto Christ a Demoniack ; saith thus . There were many such ( no doubt ) in the daies of Christ ; because , the prince of this world was not yet cast foorth . Who grew so much the more raging mad : by how much he perceiued that fatal hower very neerely approche , wherein , he knew he must needs be cast foorth from the possession which he had so long time vniustly vsurped . Loe Exorcistes , these be the writers which ( for the present ) I haue purposely produced , to prooue the exposition I gaue of these words , Now is the iudgment of this world : now shall the prince of this world be cast foorth . Exorcistes . Whatsoeuer you say , or whomsoeuer you produce for proofe of your purpose I passe not : this exposition you giue is strange , and something more then that which hath been vsually receiued . Orthodoxus . Be it so . It ouerthrowes not ( you see ) but rather confirmes the ordinary receiued exposition : in that it shewes directly , some actuall accomplishment of that actuall conquest concerning satans dominion . Yea , and this actuall conquest , satan himselfe so actually felt : as he was foorthwith enforced to acknowledg the same , saying thus . Ah , what haue we to doe with thee o Iesus of Nazareth : art thou come to destroy vs ? Not meaning therein satan his essentiall destruction ; but , the actuall annihilating of his actuall dominion , as hath been handled before . And this also according to the determinate councell of God : who had certeinely decreed the actuall breaking of the serpents head by the promised seede of the woman . The which promised seede did purposely take flesh and bloud : that he might in the flesh destroy through death , him that had power ouer death , that is , the diuell , as was shewed before . Exorcistes . Why should you so confidently applie this destruction of Satan , to the actuall determination also of his essentiall possession : and not rather , to the onely effectuall weakening of that his spirituall dominion , as it is vsually expounded of others . Orthodoxus . Because the holie Ghost ( ouer , and besides the effectuall weakening of Satan his spirituall dominion ) speaketh directly there , of the actuall accomplishment of something else , by the verie act of Christs death . The which actuall accomplishment of something else , may ( at no hand ) be vnderstood , either of the essence of Satan , or of his power of obsession : but onely of that his temporarie power of actuall possession , as hath beene handled at large . Yea , and that selfesame actuall determination of Satan his said temporarie power of actuall possession , it was so mightily feared , so actually and so sensibly felt of the diuell ; as it made him ( with a bitter exclamation ) to burst foorth and say , Ah , art thou come to destroy vs ? As if Satan should sorrowfully exclaime in this sort . Oh thou the promised seede that must actually breake my head ? Thou Iesus of Nazareth : Thou sonne of the liuing God : Thou that by the verie act of thy approching death , art appointed to destroy me that had power ouer death ? Ah , woe woorth thee ? Oh , what haue I to doe with thee ? Art thou come to vndertake the actuall destruction of my actuall possession ? Art thou come now with force and armes to enter my house , to depriue me of this my speciall armour wherein I trusted , and euen actually to cast me forth of that my pallace or house , which I haue hetherto possessed in peace ? Yea , and therewithall likewise to weaken my whole spirituall dominion for euer ? Exorcistes . But , why should you thus precisely apply this destroying of Satan , to the actuall determination also of Satan his temporarie power of actuall possession . Orthodoxus . Because Christ elsewhere so expounds , and applies it himselfe saying thus : Goe you and tell Herod that foxe , behold , I cast out diuels , and will heale still to day and to morrow , and the third day I shall be perfected , or will make an end . As if Christ should haue said thus to the Pharisies , you goe verie cunningly about to discourage me from doing my dutie , by telling me of Herod his threatning my death . But , know this for a certen , that I am so farre off from fearing the threats of that foxe , as I would haue you tell him plainely from me , that ( for the whole time I haue yet to liue ) I will be throughly industrious in doing the busines I haue now in hand , especially in driuing out diuels , and in curing diseases ; vntill I haue both fully confirmed the glorie of my Deitie , and am come to the verie period it selfe of satan his actuall destruction . The which also I am now the more earnestly in hand withal : because within these three daies I must euen actually accomplish the same , by my determined death . And then I shall be perfected , or then I will make an end of that busines . Which perfecting or ending of Christ may in no wise be vnderstood of Christ his essentiall being : because that could not be destroyed by death , in as much as he was to be quickened againe by the mightie power of the father in his resurrection from death . Neither could it haue reference to the finall determination of his office of mediation : for , therein he stil liueth , and must liue an high priest for euer . And therefore , it must needs be vnderstood of the actuall accomplishment of that his glorious tryumph ouer satan his actuall possession : according to that he saith here , behold I cast foorth diuels to day and to morrow , and the third day I shall be perfected , or I will make a finall ende of that speciall busines . Exorcistes . But , why should you so precisely apply the determination of satan his power of possession to the very period it selfe of Christs death : sith after his said death , it is very apparant there were dispossessions of diuels , by the twelue Apostles , and seuenty disciples ? Orthodoxus . There were dispossessions ( I grant ) effected by them , a time after Christ his death for confirmation of his glorious Gospel , but none at all for the declaration of Christs deity : no , Christ alone did fully determine the dispossessions for that speciall purpose by his owne death and resurrection : which ( to that end ) was the last miracle for euer , as him selfe hath auouched saying . An euil and adulterous generation seeketh a signe , but no signe shal be giuen vnto it , saue the signe of Ionah the prophet . For as Ionah was three daies and three nights in the whales belly : so shall the sonne of man be three daies and three nights in the hart of the earth . Loe here he maketh his death and resurrection the last miracle of all , for the glorious manifestation of his actual power ouer satan . Exorcistes . Whatsoeuer you say , or whomsoeuer you produce for the proofe of your purpose : the former exposition of the 12 of Iohn , is something more then that which hath beene vsually receiued . Orthodoxus . Wel , I doe freely confesse , that , the spirits of the prophets , they are authentically subiected to the censure of the prophets . If therefore , any thing be reuealed to another , let him ( in the name of God ) propound the same with pregnant proofes ; and my selfe will foorthwith be silent . In the meane time , I conclude from thence as before , that ( seeing our sauiour Christ hath long since determined the extraordinary power of actuall possession ) therefore , none now may possibly reuiue the opinion of any such possession : nor yet conscionably auouch the continuance thereof . Exorcistes . Conclude what you please : but I hold ( as before ) the actuall possession of diuels . Orthodoxus . What man ? will you wilfully oppose your selfe against vnanswerable reasons , against authoritie of ancient writers , and ( which more is ) against the plaine euidence of sacred scriptures ? Exorcistes . If the propounding , and persisting in truth , be deemed a plaine opposition to that which you hold : then ( for any thing hitherto heard ) I must constantly dwell in such an opposition , for , I may doe nothing against the truth , but for the truth . Orthodoxus . You dwell ( you say ) in a truth : and yet haue you no one colour of truth , to vphold your supposed truth . For , what one probable reason haue you at all : that may make you so confident in this your preposterous conceit ? Exorcistes . Why sir ? what better reason , then common experience ? Orthodoxus . Common experience ( I confesse ) will carrie a woonderfull sway in any apparant truth . Howbeit , because this point doth craue some longer discourse then the state of our bodies ( without some intermission ) wil be able to endure : Let vs therefore , goe take the fresh ayre for one hower , and then returne to our purpose a fresh . Physiologus . We like verie well of your motion . Orthodoxus . Come then : arise , and let vs depart . The end of the sixth Dialogue . The seuenth Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . Common experience , what it is ? Whether the actuall possession of Spirits and Diuels , especially , that your supposed possession in the yoongman at Magnitton , may be prooued thereby : And of the Diuell his power of obsession . The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOMACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Orthodoxus . NOw surely , this fresh aire , it hath woonderfully reuiued my spirits , and made me as apt to any good action , as I was in the morning . Oh how highly are we beholding to God , for the sanctified vse of so singular a creature ? Physiologus . Sir , not onely this one , but all the other creatures of God , they are comfortable and helpefull vnto vs , if we had the grace to vse them aright . Orthodoxus . Vertue true as you say : howbeit , this is besides our entended purpose . Come on therefore Exorcistes , tell vs what one reason you haue , for this your confident persisting in so fond a conceite . Exorcistes . Sir , in the verie last speech which passed betweene vs , I told you , I had common experience , not onely to prooue the actuall possession of spirits and diuels : but also to approoue of my owne action wrought at Magnitton . Orthodoxus . What meane you by common experience ? Exorcistes . I do vnderstand thereby , such an experimented knowledge concerning these matters in question , as hath beene experienced in euerie age of the worlde , testified of old and yoong , and approoued directly by a generall consent . Such an experience I am certeine I haue ; to confirme me in this my opinion . Physiologus . Maister Orthodoxus : this point more especially respecteth my proper profession : and therefore ( if you thinke it any ease to your selfe ) do put ouer the prosecution thereof vnto me . Orthodoxus . With verie good will. Physiologus . Come on then Exorcistes , let vs heare the best argument you haue for this your opinion . Exorcistes . There can be no better argument I hope then common experience . Physiologus . Indeed ( as you say ) experience , she is called the schoole-mistres of fooles ; and yet , she is not to bee accompted a foolish schoole-mistres ; but such a one rather , as ( when all other meanes faile ) is able to worke wisedome in the most foolish on earth . Yea , she is such an approoued schoole-mistres : as , euen the wisest of all , must be subiect vnto . And therefore , if you haue her on your side ( as you saie ) you are not vnlike to preuaile . Exorcistes . Yes , I haue her verie sure . For the most in Mahgnitton , and sundrie other besides , are euerie of them able to testifie ( in their owne experience ) an actuall possession in the yoong-man there : as also , in many others else where . Physiologus . They are able to testifie thus much ( you say ) in their owne experience . The question is now , whether that their owne experience : be a true experience ? Exorcistes . There needes no question to be made thereof . For the witnesses eftsoones did see the fellow in his fearefull fittes : they viewed his wallowings , his fomings , his rendings and tearings ; they beheld his senslesnesse , his bowings and bendings togither : they perceiued his many outrages , his swounings and dangerous falling in fires : they handled his stiffenes of limbes , his sundrie swellings , and the Kitlings crawling vnder the couerlid as he lay in his bedde : they heard his roarings , his cryings , with many strange knocking 's , and the Diuell eftsoones speaking verie hideously within him : briefly they smelt many sodaine and vnwoonted strong sauours , eftsoones very sweete , and sometimes more stinking then brimstone , with sondrie other verie sensible signes of actuall possession : yea , and all these verie sensibly in their owne experience . Physiologus . These your supposed sensible signes , they are ( I confesse ) such sensible demonstrations as may fully suffice to conclude a common experience : if all were as commonly true , as they are commonly reported abroad . Philologus . True sir ? why ( I assure you ) they are all extant in Print in a very authenticall narration : and ( which more is ) in maister Exorcistes his Printed Apologie . Physiologus . I am easily drawen to beleeue your report : and , so much the rather , for that Painters & Poets do challenge a priuiledge to print what they please . Howbeit , this is no good argument , they are all extant in printe : therefore they are all vndoubtedlie true . Exorcistes . As you say sir. But these ( I assure you ) are all auouched for truths : and that also vpon the corporall oaths of sundrie discreete and honest deponents . Physiologus . For truths as they tooke them at least : and so , neither their discretions , their honesties , nor oaths are any thing tainted , though happily they failed in substance . Howbeit , many others ( not of the meaner , or simpler sort ) are otherwaies fully resolued . Partly , in regard of the verie actions themselues : and partly in an especiall respect of Satan , the supposed actor of them . For first , cōcerning the actions themselues . How strange soeuer in a seeming shew , they are no way so strange in truth , but that many things else ( as much , and more strange then they are in shew ) may ordinarily proceed from naturall experiments , and be admirably effected by actiue and ingenious persons : the practise whereof would seeme ( in these daies ) if not an actuall possession , yet a cosening tricke of some cogging companion at least . Lycanthropus . I pray you discouer some fewe of those naturall experiments . Physiologus . With verie good will. And , this I must tell you before , that , there is not a man in the world ( though neuer so little imbrued with Philosophicall skill ) but he verie well knoweth , there be many hidden vertues of meere naturall things , and those also the howerly effectours of many admirable actions : which saide vertues if a man vnderstood well , and could skilfully apply them to his purpose pretended , he might vndoubtedly accomplish many vnwoonted experiments . Yea , there be many maruels in nature , hitherto vnexperienced of any , and ( to vse Plinie his words ) as yet wholy ouershadowed with natures maiestie : which the spirit of all spirits onely knoweth how , and when to implop at his pleasure . Now then , if any man ( couertly practising the experiments of these naturall causes ) did apparantly accomplish like admirable matters , men would commonly account him a Magitian , and verie hardly beleeue he could possibly effect those rare and strange feats , without the power and helpe of the diuel : whereas yet , they are onely meere natural actions , and produced wholy from meere naturall causes . Of these naturall maruels hath Aristotle penned downe a most perfit treatise : which notwithstanding , is ( by some ) ascribed to Theophrastus . Plinie also , he hath some such wonderfull matters in sundry of his workes , but verie many in his naturall historie : as may appeare plainely to such as exactly peruseth the same . Besides this , Proclus he also hath penned downe many , all tending directly to that selfesame purpose . Yea , and which more is , Augustine himselfe , Albertus Magnus , Fracastorius , and Ficinus also : they are none of them inferiour herein to any of the others before . To be briefe , there are verie many such matters dispersed throughout Cardanus his bookes concerning the subtletie and varietie of things : which I will here briefly repeat out of Plinie his works . Pneumatomachus . Doe so I hartily pray you : for , therein you shall accomplish vnto vs a singular pleasure . Physiologus . I will spare for no paines , so far foorth especially as my memorie serues me : and therefore , hearken attentiuely to it . Philologus . Yes sir , be you sure you shall find vs attentiue Athenians ; in hearing , and reporting strange newes . Physiologus . Well then , this first I must tell you , that very neere vnto Harpasa , a towne in Asia , there standeth an horrible craggy rock or torre , which a man may easily moue with a little touch of one of his fingers : whereas , if he set his whole body vnto that selfesame rock , he cannot possibly stirre it the breadth of an haire . Againe , there are other two mountaines , very nerely adioining vnto the famous riuer called Indus . The nature of one mountaine , is to draw iron vnto it : and of the other , by all meanes to reiect and put iron from it . In so much as if any man come on those mountaines with nailes in his shooes : he cannot ( with his said shooes ) be possibly pulled from the one , nor by any meanes stand on the other . Againe , very nere vnto Babilon , there floweth foorth from a rock , some certeine naturall matter called Naphtha : being a chalkie clay , and of a slimy moist substance not vnlike vnto pitch . This said Naphtha ( on which side soeuer a man shall behold it ) hath flames of fier ouerflowing the same : which cannot possibly be quenched but with aboundance of water , with vineger , with alome , or birdlime . Againe , from Nympheum , the famous promontory or mountaine of Proconnesus , an iland in Propontis : there floweth foorth from the middest of the rock , a flame which by the drops of raine is kindled , and set on fire . Againe , in Dodona a citie of Greece , Iupiter his well , when it is cold as ice , and hath vtterly extinguished the flaming firie faggots : if ( after those faggots be throughly quenched ) they be presently put into the well againe , it kindles them as fresh as before . Yea , and in the cuntry Illyrium , if clothes be there spred ouer a certeine coldwell : they are presently burned . Againe , the admirable Aetna , a certeine hill in Sicily , now called Gibello monte , conteining in circuite , twenty furlongs , enuironed with a banke of ashes the height of a wall , and hauing in the middle thereof , a round hill of the selfesame matter and colour , with two huge holes therein , fashioned like two cups : this hill is not ( for the strangenesse thereof ) inferiour to any of the rest . For , from out of those holes doe strangely arise , sometime sundry fearefull flames of fire : sometime a horrible smoake : and somtimes are fearefully blowen foorth from thence , very burning stones , in infinite numbers . Moreouer , before the said flames of fier doe sensibly appeare , there is heard in the ground , a very terrible noice and roaring . And ( which is more to be merueiled ) when the smoke and fire is most aboundant and feruent : yet , round about the top of this hill , are alwaies seene snow , and hoary frosts . Againe , the said Pliny makes mention of a stone , called in the Greeke toong Adamas , and in English a Diamond ; which can neither be broken with violence , nor burned with fier : and yet it may easily be softened and made pliable to any good purpose , by steeping the same in goats bloud a while , being warme . Yea and ( which more is ) this Diamond is in nature so opposite vnto a certeine stone called Magnes , in english , the Loadestone , as ( the same being laid nere to a needle ) it will not suffer the Loadstone to draw the said needle vnto it : and being thrust hard to the Loadstone , it forthwith apprehendeth , snatcheth vp , and carrieth the Loadstone quite away with it . But , of all wonders vnder the sun , there is none ( in my seeming ) more admirable then the Loadstone it selfe : were not the hidden operation thereof , so commonly experienced , and knowen as it is . For , that the same should draw iron vnto it , and , so directly dispose the very point of the marriners needle towards the south as it doth : which of the wisest philosophers could euer as yet find foorth the very true naturall reason , and cause thereof ? Howbeit , the little fish Echneis ( which is commonly called Remora , of staying or hindring ) is of all others the woonder of woonders . For of this fish Aristotle he writeth , and Plinie reporteth from his proper experience , that the same ( being but halfe afoote long , and verie like to a snaile ) if she once but cleaue to the side of shippe ( though of verie great burden , and neuer so fleete vnder saile ) yet the said fish will so strongly restraine the force of that shippe , as she will compell her perforce , to stand still , notwithstanding the violence of winde or oare : and this with no labour at al , but only by cleauing vpon the side of the shippe , as was shewed before . Hitherto Plinie . Lycanthropus . These I assure yon , are verie strange , and admirable actions in nature . Physiologus . There are many others as strange as any of these , if we had time to report them . Moreouer , besides these things which want reason , many men also themselues , haue euen naturallie effected such like admirable actions ; as verie fewe ( neuer seeing them done ) will either credit the actours themselues , or beleeue them at all , being soundly reported by others : although yet Augustine he makes it verie euident by manie examples . Philologus . Report some fewe of those examples I pray you . Physiologus . Content . We haue heard ( saith Augustine ) the natures of some certeine men , verie much vnlike to the nature of others , yea , and ( for strangenes ) euerie waies admirable : effecting with their owne proper bodies , such woonderfull actions , as none other might possiblie doe , and ( hearing onely thereof ) will hardly beleeue them . For there were some to be seene , who ( without stirring their heades at all ) could shake their own eares ; either one by it selfe alone , or both at once at their pleasure . Againe , there were some others , who not moouing their head ( where their lockes especially grew ) would verie easily put downe their whole bush of haire to their forehead : and eftsoones recall it againe at their pleasure . There were some others againe , who , of such meats as they had eaten before ( those selfesame meats also , being incrediblie verie manie and diuers ) by often handling their stomacke , from thence woulde easily bring foorth vnconcoctod , what morsell they thought best at their pleasures . There were some others againe , who ( from the very bottome of their bellie , and that also without anie slouenly crackings behind ) woulde foorthwith procure so manie sundrie sounds at their pleasure : as a man would haue thought there had beene some singing within them . Yea , and I also ( saith Augustine ) haue seene in my proper experience ; a man that would sweate when he listed himselfe . And it is verie well knowne , that many can weepe when they please : and powre foorth aboundance of teares . Yea and ( which more is ) there was a certeine priest in Calamensis parish , who ( when seemed him good ) woulde depriue himselfe of all bodily sense , and lie flat on the grounde as if he were dead : insomuch , as when he was pinched , pricked , or pulled by the haire , he felt nothing at all , yea , and eftsoones also when the beholders did touch him with candle or fire , he perceiued no maner of griefe , neither could they ( for all that while ) discerne any breathing in him . Thus farre Augustine there . Now then , from all the premisses , I may fitly enforce this one inference vpon Exorcistes . Namely , that if all these the precendent matters ( how admirable soeuer in shew ) yet were and might well be effected by nature herselfe , and onely by meere naturall meanes : why then should those your imagined marueiles wrought at Mahgnitton ( for any their supposed strangenes whatsoeuer , it being also , so farre inferiour to manie of these ) be deemed for any such vnspeakeable woonders as could not possible be effected , but , by some supernaturall power of the diuell ? Yea , and why should you vrge such vncerteine and doubtfull actions : to conclude a certeine experience ? Exorcistes . Nay sir , they were all I assure you , verie strange and vndoubted true actions . Physiologus . But their strangenes whatsoeuer ( you see ) cannot certeinly conclude them for truthes ; sith many things more strange may be effected by nature herselfe , and by meere naturall meanes , as was shewed before . Besides that , many more strange actions then any were done at Mahgnitton : may , and do eftsoones accidentally arise from meere naturall diseases . Namely , from disordered melancholie , from Mania , from the Epilepsie , from Lunacie , from Lycanthropie , from Conuulsions , from the mother , from the menstruall obstructions , and sundrie other outragious infirmities . For , the animall parts being maruelouslie affected with some disordered phantasies arising onely vpon some falslie supposed sensible notions , and the minde being mightelie troubled by meanes of noysome fumes , blacke and grosse , vapouring vp to the braine like the soote of a chimney : they imagine themselues to be vexed eftsoones , of some hurtfull spirits , and doe strongly perswade themselues , that the diuell assaileth their mindes , and driueth them foorthwith into many absurd , inconuenient , foolish , and fantastical imaginations . And which more is , there be many most fearefull diseases which happen to maidens and widowes , of the passions of the wombe , or from the late fluxion of their naturall euacuations , or when they deferre their mariage to long , and then be sodenly bestowed in mariage : all these doe no lesse hurt and disquiet the poore patients minde , then if they were actually possessed of Satan . And therefore , me thinke it is to to ridiculous , that men of sound iudgement will so soone be ouerswaied with any phantasticall conceipt : as that ( from the onely bare notions of a deceaueable sensitiue knowledge ) they should ( by these onely supposed strange actions ) imagine any actuall possession of Satan : seeing the like admirable accidents , both may , and doe daily proceede from meere naturall diseases , without anie operation or power of the diuell . Moreouer , some of those your supposed signes , now extant in print to prooue the pretended actuall possession of Satan , they are ( in themselues ) so absurd , so supernaturall , and impossible : as they are of all wise men derided , and deemed no better then iuggling deuises , to deceiue the simpler sort . Now then , if the greatest part of those your supposed signes , be adiudged vntrue , and concluded vnsound : whie may not the rest be deemed ( in like manner ) so deceitfull and false , as they deserue , and are woorthie no credite at all ? Brieflie , if all those your suggested signes ( put lately in print by the parties themselues , to prooue the pretended possession of diuels ) must needes be canonized currant , and held as infallible oracles from Apollo Pythius at Delphos : why then should we the rather beleeue our Sauiour Christ for any his miracles , or supernaturall operations : sith the yoong man at Magnitton , did likewise ( for his part ) accomplish so manie extraordinarie and admirable actions , if that which is publisht in print , may possiblie be prooued a truth ? Exorcistes . Nay sir , the yoong man he wrought not those admirable actions , by any supernaturall power of his owne : but the diuell rather ( within him , and by him ) effected the same . Are you fled to the essentiall and inherent possession of Satan afresh ? I perceiue you are like to the hunted Hare which seuddeth hither and thether , and standeth in feare at euerie squat . Howbeit , as the vntruth of those your supposed signes of actuall possession is ferretted foorth in an especiall regard of the actions themselues : so surely the further vntruth of those your supposed signes shall now further appeere in an especiall respect of satan himselfe , whom you make the supposed actour of those your supposed actions : which is ( I assure you ) the other maine cause , why most wise men account all those the aforesaid suggested signes of actuall possession , but fine-witted forgeries , and meere cousoning conceites of cogging companions . Namely , for that the verie diuell also himselfe ( whom you make the supposed actour of those your supposed actions , is vtterly vnable to accomplish any such actions as are impossible in nature , and incredible in all sound Diuinitie . For first , ( concerning an impossibility in nature it selfe ) the diuel ( as hath beene declared , and you know it full wel ) he is but a finite creature him selfe : and therefore his power whatsoeuer , is so limitted and bounded vnto him , as the same may not possibly exceede the appointed territories of his determined nature . Now then , if his power whatsoeuer , be paled about , and hemmed within the naturall compasse of his essentiall , and naturall being : how could he , either of him selfe , or by the yoong man at Mahgnitton , in any possibility , effect so many absurd , supernaturall , and impossible actions , as in those bookes are blazed abroad ? And next ( for the impossibilitie also thereof in all sound Diuinitie ) verie certeine I am , the diuell , he is no creatour of substances , no transformer of natures : nor no worker of myracles . First , that he is no creatour of substances , it is apparant in this : namely , for that Iehouah alone is the Creatour of all things . He onely it is who calleth those things which are not , as though they were . He bringeth light out of darknes , he is the author and father of all things : and therefore the glorie of creation belongeth onely to him . Moreouer this ( in all reason ) is verie apparant , namely , that the nature of beginnings affecteth singularitie : insomuch as possibly he could not be singular , if he should communicate the power of Creation , to any besides himselfe . Now then , if spirits and diuels be accompted the creatours of substances , then must they ( in like manner ) beheld the quickners , and sustainers also thereof : and so ( by consequence ) be Gods and Iehouah , causing things to exist . Which , how repugnāt it is to all sound Diuinitie : may plainely appeare in sundrie scriptures . Yea , this is flat opposite to the approoued testimonie of al the fathers . For , Augustine , he flatly denieth spirits and diuels to be Creators of the smalest creature on earth : yea , euen of a flea or a louse . Damascene also , he accordeth thereto . Yea , and Augustine , he backeth this point by a second supply : affirming , that by whomsoeuer the glorious Angels were made , by him also , the silie wormes were created . This then , may fully suffice , to conclude , the diuell , no creator of substances . Now next , that he is no transformer of natures , it is verie apparant , in that he cannot possibly transforme his owne proper nature : no , not so much as in an outward appearance , as hath plainely beene prooued before . And as for working of miracles , he is as impotent therein , as in any of the rest : because he hath no supernaturall power to accomplish such matters . He may worke strange woonders , as Simon Magus hath done : but , he can effect no supernaturall , and miraculous actions : though God giue him leaue to shew his whole power . So then , the diuell ( you see ) he hath a double bridle put in his mouth : namely , the bounds of nature : and the will of God. By the one he is vnable : and by the other he may not doe more then the appointment of God. The premisses therefore considered , who seeth it not vtterly incredible in all sound Diuinitie , that many of those your supposed actions could bee possibly effected of satan : in such sort at least , as in those your published pamphlets they are falsely reported . Exorcistes . The diuell , he is able to accomplish great matters . Physiologus . So much I confesse . And therefore ( for arguments sake ) be it by the way , supposed ( which may neuer be prooued ) that the diuel , either of himselfe , or by the yoong man at least , was throughly able , and did truely effect such supernaturall matters as are published in print : there is then no doubt but that he can doe them againe , and as oft as he please . For , if he be anie waies able : there is no doubt of his willingnes in working of mischiefe . That ( if he hath done them before at Mahgnitton ) he is then able to doe them againe , my reason is this : namely , for that euerie art , or action , presupposeth alwaies an essentiall power in the artist , or actor himselfe . Your Apologie therefore , reporting ( as it doth ) for infallible truth , that the diuell ( in the yoongman at Mahgnitton either did , or could possibly accomplish such impossible actions : you your selfe must be able to demonstrate by what possible meanes he might possibly effect them , which I verily supposse you cannot possibly doe . For this you may not be ignorant of , that , to euery action is required the faculty and ability of the agent ; the aptnesse of the patient or subiect : with a conuenient and possible application of true matter and forme . Now then first for the diuel , the supposed agent of those your impossible actions ; he is not omnipotent , but an impotent , a finite and circumscriptible spirit : and his power whatsoeuer , it dependeth vpon the analogy and consonancy of his mind and body , if he had any at all . Howbeit , with his mind he can doe no more but vnderstand and will , and with his body ( if he had any at all ) he could accomplish no more then the very bounds and ends of corporall sense would suffer , and the faculty of his nature extendeth vnto : and therefore his naturall power whatsoeuer , it cannot possibly stretch foorth it selfe to the powerfull effecting of any such supernaturall actions as doe infinitely surmount his naturall and finite faculty , his sense , his vnderstanding and will. So then , here wanteth ( you see ) first , the faculty and power of the efficient it selfe : for the possible effecting of those impossible actious wherewith you would mannage your pretended actuall possession . Whereupon I infer , that , if no such supernaturall power at all may be prooued in the diuel his supposed possession : then , no such supernaturall actions ( in truth ) may possibly proceede from the same , notwithstanding any your printed reports . For , in all reason , there can be no greater vertue in the thing caused : then is in the cause it selfe , or in that which proceedes from the benefit of the cause . But you ( in your printed apology ) doe make the diuel his supposed actuall possession , the principall effi●ient cause of all such supernaturall actions as were ministerially effected ( you say ) by the yong man at Mahgnitton : and therefore ( the said power being finite ) you cannot possibly conclude from thence , any such admirable matters as you would beare vs in hand . Neither may you conscionably perswade vs to entertaine for sound truth , whatsoeuer you report concerning that point : especially , if we will credit our owne experience and sense vnabused , the rules of philosophy , and sound diuinity . Now next for any aptnesse in the yoong man at Mahgnitton whom ( in any wise ) you will haue the proper patient or subiect of those strang and impossible actions : how should there possibly be found in him any aptnesse or inclination at all , to any such supernaturall matters , he himselfe being but a meere naturall creature : consisting naturally of body and soule : endued onely with meere naturall faculties and circumscribed no dout with meere naturall bonds ? And therefore , you see it is vtterly impossible for him to haue any further aptnesse or inclination that way : then his naturall faculty extendeth vnto , and may possibly proceede from the very sway and reache of his owne proper nature . Briefly , concerning some conuenient and possible application of true matter and forme , for the orderly effecting of those your supposed supernaturall actions : such a conuenient and possible application , is much more impossible then any of the rest . Both , because no such true matter for those your supposed supernaturall actions , was euer preexisting in nature : and , for that also , the true forme it selfe , for a conuenient and possible application thereof , must needs be supernaturall , surmounting by much , the naturall power of the diuel . And so , ( by consequence ) those your printed reports , they are ( you see ) no sound demonstrations : to conclude vnto vs the certeine truth of such supposed supernaturall actions . Exorcistes . Why are you so loth to beleeue that , which so many beheld with their eies ? Physiologus . Because I see not how they should possibly behold that with their eies , which you would haue me beleeue with my hart : contrary to diuinity , to philosophy , to physick , to nature , to law , and to conscience . 1. For first , the working of miracles ( in all sound diuinity ) is ceased long since : neither was the diuel euer able to effect any miracle , whatsoeuer he pretended in outwarde appearance . 2. Besides that , no one reason ( in all Philosophie ) may possibly be yeelded : for the confirmation of a matter so impossible in reason . 3. Againe , howsoeuer the yoong man was said to vse ointments in working his feates : yet , verie certeine I am , that no one Physicall receipt may ( by arte ) be prescribed for the possible effecting of such impossible actions . 4. Nether yet may a circumscribed nature , at any hand extend herselfe beyond her owne naturall bounds : to the admirable accomplishment of such supernaturall matters . 5. Moreouer , because there is nothing possible in Law , which in nature it selfe is absurd and impossible ; the Iudge therefore ( notwithstanding any thing confessed before by the parties ) he is not to attend or regard whatsoeuer those partiall reporters haue published in print , or otherwaies reported to be done by the diuel at Mahgnitton : but , he must strictly examine , and in equitie alowe rather of that thing which is substantially prooued to haue ( in deed and in truth ) by him beene effected , or which ( at the least ) might naturally and possiblie fall within the full power of the agent to do . 6. Lastly , whatsoeuer the yoong-man may haplie report concerning the supposed accomplishment of any such supernaturall actions by himselfe , or the diuell : he is not ( in conscience ) to be beleeued therein , whether his iudgement be sound or vnsound , I mean , whether he be wel , or but wild in his wits . For first , be it supposed the man were sound in his iudgement , yea , and so well in his wits , as possiblie he might be : yet were there no conscience at all , to credite a cousoning companion , so vnconscionablie auouching such incredible actions . But if ( as may rather be deemed ) he was someway intoxicated , or not well in his wittes when he reported such matters abroad : then tell me what conscience , or what wisdome it were , to credite for infallible truth , the crazie confession of a crazie weake braine , in matters especially so absurd , and so opposite to the orderly course of nature ? For , this I take to be Lawe ; namely , that when the errour of iudgement , or the blindnes of will dependeth vpon some secret disease , or naturall infirmitie : the mens actions then ( in such kind of cases ) are in all tender compassion to be carefully pitied , but their confessions at no band , to be conscionablie credited . Because ( the minde it selfe being destitute of reason ) the will ( in such a case ) could yeeld no sound consent to the action : neither could any crime be committed without a consent , nor iniurie effected but with a minde to do wrong . Yea , & ( which more is ) be it supposed the yoon gman at Mahgnitton should verie solemnly confesse , he had indeed a resolute purpose to haue effected some such supernaturall actions as are ( by your selfe ) reported in Print : yet , for that such a purpose retained in minde ( al the while it is vneffected ) doth nothing at all to the publike or priuate hurt of any , that selfesame intended purpose may not iustly be esteemed as an offensiue action in Lawe . Much lesse then , is an impossible purpose of a crazie weake braine , to be conscionablie credited , how confidently soeuer the same be reported : because , a sound minde , purposeth nothing but what is possible . Lycanthropus . Why hold you manie of those reported matters ; impossible for satan to do ? Physiologus . Because , if diuels may possiblie bring such impossible matters to passe at their pleasure : then may they also be causes , or impediments to the ordinarie course of al other naturall actions and ordinances appointed by God. Namely , they may then cause it to hold vp , when it should raine , and to raine , when it should hold vp : they may then cause midnight at noon-day , and noone-daie at midnight : yea , and by that meanes , the diuine power it selfe , should ( after a sori ) become serutle to the will of a diuell : so as we should neither eate , nor drinke , but by the diuell his permission . Howbe●t , to presse you a little , with one onely instance of many . This I must tell you , that ( whatsoeuer some men imagine concerning the diuell his supposed power , for the raising of showers and tempestuous stormes ) it is the Lord God alone who giueth vs raine in due season . For , when by the power of the Sunne and force of the windes , some certeine exhalations are drawen and lifted vp from the earth , into the middle region of the aire : the coldnes of the aire there , doth so congeale and thicken those saide exhalations , as foorthwith they become cloudes : which cloudes being eftsoones ( by the heate of the sunne dissolued ; & by the force of the winds dispersed ) are turned straightwaies , into either raine or hayle : into raine especially , if by the way , those drops be not frozen , and so turned to hayle . These circumst●nces conferred with the whole course of the scriptures : it cannot possiblie be brought within the power of a diuell , to procure either raine or faire weather . Now then , if there be no possible power in a diuell , to raise vp and procure a tempest of raine , which doth seeme to our sense , the most accident all matter vnder the heauens : then surely , much lesse is he able by himselfe or his substitute , to accōplish any of those impossible actions which your selues haue so confidently reported abroad . And so by consequence , all those your sensible demonstrations hitherto declared : are verie insufficient to conclude vnto vs anie such approoued or common experience . Exorcistes . Sir , notwithstanding these your Philosophicall proceedings , the matters which fell foorth at Mahgnitton ( euen in an approoued experience of all the beholders ) were verie apparant signes of an actuall possession . Physiologus . Well sir ? how triflingly soeuer you trauers the matter , these my Philosophicall proceedings ( for any thing hitherto heard ) might fullie suffice to put your fantasticall fooleries to a perpetuall non-sute : were you not like to the rauenous Ferret , which rendeth in peeces whatsoeuer poore Rabbet doth come in her reach . And therefore it shall not be amisse to cope vp your lips a little , by taking foorthwith so strict a course as you shall neuer be able to contradict with all your skill : which may in this sort be verie fitly effected . Namely , first , by searching foorth soundly , the verie true nature of those things that were done at Mahgnitton : and then next , by laying downe some certeine rule of right iudgement , to examine them by . Lycanthropus . Proceed in that course I beseech you . Physiologus . With very good wil ▪ First therefore , concerning the things , themselues , it may not in reason bee denied , but that vndoubtedly , they were things either naturall : or not naturall at least . Things naturall , I account all those seuerall matters to be , whatsoeuer , which God hath essentially enabled vnto the orderly accomplishment of that selfesame ende whereunto he created them first : it being withall , verie naturall and consequent in the things themselues . And of this sort , I esteeme all matters and actions whatsoeuer ; which be naturally consonant and concludent to the orderly course of nature . Now sir , if your matters at Mahgnitton were al vndoubtedly such , then , either all men in like sort , are naturally tainted with Satan his actuall possession , because all men in their naturall actions , doe equally obserue the like naturall course either more or lesse : and so , the whole world besides , which haue hetherto wanted your helpe of prayer and fasting , should wholly remaine in Satan his actuall possession . Or ( on the other side ) if all men in like sort , be not naturally possessed , then , neither the yoong-man himselfe ( remaining with them , in one and the selfesame naturall condition ) was possessed at all : and so by consequence , you haue kept at Mahgnitton , a greater coyle about nothing , then the Grecians euer kept at the conquest of Troy. Exorcistes . Nay sir , the matters at Mahgnitton : were rather , things not naturall . Physiologus . Are you fled so soone , from things naturall : to things not naturall ? Well ; goe to then . Things not naturall , I reckon all those matters or actions whatsoeuer , which haue naturally in themselues , no naturall abilitie for the orderly accomplishment of nature her orderly determined courses : neither yet , of , or in their owne selues are naturall and consequent to any such naturall purpose or ende . And these not naturall things , are vndoubtedly , such as bee directly , either against nature , or besides nature , or aboue nature at least . 1 Things directly against nature , are all those accidentall occurrents which do altogether withstand those essentiall properties , this inbred facultie , yea , and that verie naturall disposition of the things themselues ( which by the operation of God ) were naturally engraffed in euerie of them : and which more is , doth violently destroy , & euen vtterly annihilate the proper essence , or essentiall being of all those naturall things whatsoeuer . Of this sort are hanging , killing , poysoning , strangling , and death also it selfe . Now then , your matters at Mahgnitton , they may not iustly be concluded for things of this kinde ; both because the yoong-man himselfe is yet liuing and lustie ; and for that , no one of those your supposed supernaturall actions , were in themselues either deadly or mortall . 2. To proceed . 2. Things directly besides nature , are all those vnnaturall declining courses of nature , which , notwithstanding they do not totally and wholy withstand the orderly force and operation of nature ; yet doe they hinder it much : and ( by either adding thereunto , or by subtracting therefro ) doe mightily forestall the verie true naturall courses thereof . As for example , when ( ouer and besides the orderly parts of nature ) a man hath two heads , two noses , and fower hands ; or , but one eie , one arme , one legge , and such like . All these , with many other such vnnaturall accidents , are things directly besides nature : whereof sundrie approoued writers ( especially Hierom himselfe , and Nicephorus also ) haue written at large in their seuerall discourses . Now sir , you may not , and which more is , you dare not ( without blushing ) affirme , that any of your matters at Mahgnitton , were ( indeed , and in truth ) any such monstrous , or vnnatural occurrents : and therefore , from thence you cannot possibly conclude any actuall possession at all . Or if notwithstanding , you will impudently affirme , that those your said matters were vndoubtedly some of them such monstrous occurrents , and thereupon inferre an actuall possession ; it must necessarily follow , that either the yoong-man at Mahgnitton was not possessed at all ; or else , that onely the monstrous persons are actually possessed , which were a verie absurd and monstrous opinion . 3. Briefly , the things directly aboue nature , are al those matters & actions whatsoeuer , which ( beyond their owne natural force , and rather in , then by the verie things themselues ) are estsoones effected : although yet , not by any order and facultie of nature , but by an extraordinarie , and supernaturall power of God. As , to make yron swim , fire to freese , water to burne , the dead to returne to life , and such like . Now sir , if you dare flatly affirme that your maters at Mahgnitton , were things vndoubtedly of this selfesame kinde : then must you , not only verie necessarily auouch some supernaturall power in the diuell and yoong-man possessed , for the admirable effecting of all those your supposed supernaturall actions : but ( which more is ) you must verie confidently conclude , that , such an admirable dispossessing of the yoong-man possest at Mahgnitton , was vndoubtedly , the miracle of miracles . Exorcistes . Make of it , a miracle , a monster , or , what pleaseth your selfe : possessed I am certaine he was . Physiologus . Possessed you are certaine he was : and yet cannot certainly shew in what sort . Howbeit , hauing hitherto searched foorth soundly the verie nature of the things themselues , and finding them in effect to be things neither naturall , nor not naturall , and so by consequence , but meere delusions : Let vs notwithstanding , imagine them all for such as you say , and therefore now here in like manner , Lay downe some certaine rule of right iudgement , to examine them by . Lycanthropus . I pray you doe so . Physiologus . Content . The rule of right iudgement , is some certaine direction , leuell , or square , whereby is declared vnto vs , both what is true , and what is false : and for which onely respect , it is also verie fitly termed the rule of truth . Moreouer , this selfesame rule of truth , is either naturall : or supernaturall . The naturall rule of truth , is that naturall direction , which nature herselfe doth truely declare ; and verie sufficiently affoorde vnto vs. And this selfesame natural rule of truth is also twofold ; namely , either some naturall principles , or vniuersall experience . The naturall principles , are some certeine generall notions , or vniuersall directions , verie naturally engrafted and knowen vnto men by nature it selfe : and which also are so necessarilie , so certeinly , and so vnchangeablie true , as whosoeuer shall dare to call them in doubt , he may iustly be termed a mad-man , or foole . And these naturall principles also , are , either theoricall : or practicall . The theoricall principles , are all such speculatiue demonstrations , as doe certeinly direct and guide the iudgement , in a true vnderstanding & knowledge of things . As for example , twise two , are fowre . Againe , there is one onely truth . Againe , the whole is greater then any part thereof . Againe , the cause is not after the effect . Againe , there is one onely naturall motion of a simple bodie , and so foorth . The practicall principles are such certeine and infallible grounds of truth , as do certeinly direct and gouerne the manners of men . As for example , God is to be serued . Men may not be hurt . Honest things are to be done . Falshood is to be fledde , and so foorth . Now then this naturall rule , I meane these natural principles ( whether theoricall , or practicall ) they can be no competent Iudges to examine and trie foorth the truth of those your supposed maruels wrought at Mahgnitton . First , because this selfesame rule ( being onely but naturall , in what kinde soeuer ) cannot possiblie extend foorth it selfe to the full compasse and reach of those your admirable actions : manie of them especially being so absurd as they are , so supernaturall , and euerie way so impossible in nature . Secondly , for that manie wise men in the world ( no lesse wise then your selfe , yea , and as sufficientlie qualified with those selfesame naturall principles whatsoeuer ) are of a farre different iudgement to yours : and therefore ( by force of this rule ) you cannot possiblie put downe vnto vs any such infallible and certeine conclusions , as may possiblie perswade an actuall possession . And thus much brieflie , for that first rule of truth , which ariseth onely from meere naturall principles . Lycanthropus . Shew vs in like sort ( I beseech you ) that other infallible rule of truth , which proceedeth from vniuersall experience . Physiologus . With verie good will. And , because , this is that verie loadstone it selfe whereunto Exorcistes attendeth for his special directions in those supernaturall accidents : I will therefore , first vnfold the thing it selfe , and then next , discouer the sundrie degrees thereof . Pneumatomachus . A verie excellent order ; I praie you proceede . Physiologus . Content . First then for the thing it selfe , the same is called in the Hebrew toong Cheker , that is , a diligent scrutinie , inuestigation , inuention , inquisition , or searching out of a thing to the bottome . It commeth of the Radicall worde Chakar , which signifieth to make diligent inquirie for a thing to the bottome , to make a profound inquisition , to gage , verie deepely into , and to search downe , to the first fountaine it selfe . In the Greeke toong it is called Emporia : that is , an experience , skil , specialty or proofe . In the Latin● toong experientia : that is , an experiment , a due triall , a patterne or president . And , in our English toong , we commonly call it a common vse , example , or practise . Now then , all these the aforesaid Etymologies ( so fitly consorting in one ) as they doe liuely portend at a blush , a ●erie admirable , and most certeine demonstratiue rule : so doe they teach vs withall , that vniuersall experience , is a perpetuall vse of things , wherein al men of sound iudgement ( howsoeuer seuered by times , and places ) do by due experiments prooue and knowe , that they haue euermore receiued one and the selfesame thing , after one and the selfesame maner . And that therefore , it is called a catholike , or common experience . As for example , Fire is hot : life is one thing : and death is another : wine and pepper , haue an inflaming facultie : snowe is white : the heauens are mooued circulerly , and so foorth . Lycanthropus . Let this suffice for the thing it selfe : and now , shew vs in like sort , the sundrie degrees thereof . Physiologus . The sundrie degrees of an vniuersal experience , are those seueral proceedings : . wherein shee groweth from steppe to steppe , to her full perfection . And these selfesame degrees are fower : namely , aisthesis , hystoria , Epagoge , emporia . 1. Aisthesis , is the first degree of vniuersall experience , when as by sense ( I meane , by seeing , hearing , smelling , tasting & handling : ) there is something verie sensiblie perceiued . And , this falleth effectually foorth in all things ; either obiected to sense , or propounded by example . 2. Historia is the second degree of experience : when as from the obiected sensible notions , or propounded examples , we do constitute an obseruation or rule . For , from one , or a few examples : wee may fitly gather a rule . 3. Epagoge , is the third degree of vniuersal experience : when as by an orderlie induction we collect and bring in verie many examples , and those also , verie fitly according with the former constituted rule . 4. Briefly Emporia , is the last degree of vniuersal experiēce : when as we doe certeinly finde by like perpetuall experiments , that all the examples propounded vnto vs , are after one and the selfesame maner , and do fully consort themselues , to the former determined rule . Thus then , you may plainly perceiue , that sense , obseruation , induction , and the like perpetuall experience : do fully constitute a second infallible naturall rule , for the orderly examining and trying foorth of truthes . Howbeit , neither may this selfesame naturall , or experimentall rule : in any sort be enforced to serue Exorcistes his turne . Because , it in no wise accordeth with his supposed actuall possession ; or with any the admirable actions arising from thence : whether we respect the verie rule it selfe , or the seuerall degrees thereof . For first , concerning the verie rule it selfe . There were then , and are now many wise and sensible persons besides your selues : some of them seuered by time and place , and many of them conuersing among you , euen then and there , where your supposed actuall possession was actually effected , or practised . Who do all of them flatly affirme , that , they ( for their owne parts ) neither then , nor at any time since had any such experimented trials , or approoued experiments of such an actuall possession , as your selues haue published in print : and therefore , the experience which you flee vnto now for your refuge , is no catholike or vniuersall experience . Besides all this , let the matters themselues be yet further examined and tried foorth fully by the seuerall degrees of the vniuersall experience propounded before : and then tell me , how this selfesame experimentall rule , and the actions that are to be ruled thereby , may possibly accord in one . For first , concerning sense , how is it possible that any sensible experience ( as it were step by step ) should directly proceed from the sensitiue knowledge , to the memory it selfe , seeing all the obiects of sense ( arising especially from any your supposed supernaturall actions ) were none other thing else , but deceiueable obiects and crafty conueiances : and therefore , could not possibly aford true naturall notions , towards the timely effecting of a vniuersall experience ? And next for obseruation , how is it possible that any infallible rule for the triall of truthes : should bee sensibly and soundly collected from such insensible notions , and vnsound examples ? Againe , concerning induction , where , or from whence should we possibly collect any other examples , which may , or can possibly accord with this supposed example of yours : for the further confirmation of the former infallible rule , constituted ( as before ) vpon sensuall experiments , and sound examples ? Moreouer , where is that perpetuall consenting experience , wherein all men of sound iudgement whatsoeuer , haue truely found foorth by like perpetuall experiments from time to time : that , this one , with all other the approoued examples of actuall possession , doe mutually concurre after one and the felfesame manner , and fully accord in euery point ? Now then , sith the vniuersall experience wee speake of doth not ( so much as in outward appearance ) hold any agreement at all , either , with your pretended actuall possession , or with any the supposed actions thereof : you cannot ( in any proportion of reason ) either conscionably auouch , or consequently conclude from thence , any approoued experience , to try foorth the truth of your matters . Yea , and this I say more , that , if the experience wee speake of heere , and your actuall possession with the supposed actions there at Mahgnitton , did so fully accord , and so iustly iumpe together in all outward appearance , as the one might not possibly be discerned from the other : yet could you not gather from thence , such a certeine rule of right iudgement , as might ( for the purpose in hand ) be able to serue your turne to the full . Because , that your pretended actuall possession , and the supposed actions arising from thence , are ( many of them ) supernaturall , absurd , and impossible : whereupon , this experimentall or vniuersall experience being ( you may see , when it is at the best ) but a meere naturall rule ) it cannot possibly compasse and square foorth vnto vs , the certeine truth of those your supernaturall actions . And therefore , it is vtterly in vaine for your selfe , to rest as you do : vpon vniuersall experience for triall thereof . Exorcistes . Nay sir , I rest not at all , vpon any such an experience as proceedeth onely from meere naturall rules : but , vpon a spirituall experience rather , arising directly from the confirmed canons , and infallible rules of the word . Physiologus . Your manner of disputing , is very like ( I perceiue ) to a maultmilne horse his manner of drawing . For he ( being blindfolded before he be put in his geares ) knoweth none other , but that he goeth directly forewards : when notwithstanding , he keepeth onely a circuler motion : so surely , your selfe ( beeing horribly hood-winked herein with the palpable maske , of a mischeiuous selfe-conceite ) you do verely suppose , that ( in this your giddie course of disputing ) you goe directly an end , when you follow eftsoones the wild-goose chase : one while fleeing from scripture to common experience , and ( beeing soone weary of your part that way ) another while retiring from common experience to the scriptures againe , as one that wotteth not well , in what place to fasten his foote . But , go to man , stick fast to the infallible rule of the scriptures , and cleaue close to the confirmed canons thereof : for , howsoeuer these naturall rules ( laied foorth by my self ) may not possibly be made pliable to the very point of your purpose in hand : the sacred scriptures , they are those supernaturall rules , whereunto ( by Orthodoxus his helpe ) your supposed supernaturall actions ( beeing soundly currant ) may well be made sutable , and sorting in euery respect . If therefore your said actions may possibly endure the hammering and triall of scripture : I warrant you I , they will all bee cannozed currant . Exorcistes . Yes sir , our matters ( I assure you ) they are very well able to endure the fier and forge of the word : yea , and to be throughly ballanced with the holy waights of the sanctuary . For , the actuall possession we plead for , not onely accordeth in euery condition , with the actuall possessions expressed at large in the scriptures : but which more is , the same is a perpetuall infirmity eftsoones falling foorth among men , as was shewed before . And therefore , there is no question at all concerning the certeine truth thereof . Orthodoxus . I perceiue you haue hardned your forehead against the infallible truth of the Lord , for , Physiologus hauing before ( by naturall philosophy ) very sufficiently shewed the apparant disparison betweene your pretended actuall possession , and the approued actuall possessions exprest in the scriptures , and which more is , my selfe also hauing eftsoones ( by the sacred canons and rules of the word ) very fully confuted your idle conceite , concerning the falsly supposed perpetuity of actuall possessions : you notwithstanding ( beeing vtterly vnable to make any sound reply vnto either of both , euen by a pittifull begging of that which you cannot possibly prooue ) doe now afresh , very impudently insist vpon the controuersed question it selfe , without , either probability of reason , or shew of sense . Exorcistes . Yes sir , the perpetuity of actuall possession , is very apparant in the sacred scriptures . Orthodoxus . I doubt not then , but that you would more fully haue made knowen that selfesame apparancy long ere now . But , go to , be it so as you say . The perpetuity thereof will then appeare vnto vs , either , by some canon , or counsel at least conteined in the scriptures : which ( I verely beleeue ) you will neuer be able to shew . For , first , the Apostle Paul , he tels the Ephesians ( with an appeale to their conscience ) that , he hath shewed them the whole councel of God that is , so much of Gods counsel as may any waies concerne the sauing or killing of soules . But , in all his authenticall epistles , he giues neither canon , nor counsell concerning the perpetuity of actuall possessions : therefore , the perpetuity of actuall possessions , is no such part of Gods counsell , as may any waies concerne the sauing , or killing of soules . If yea , then was not the Apostle himselfe set free from their bloud in concealing it from them : for , in none of his canonicall Epistles hath he discouered the same . If no , then the perpetuitie of actuall possession is no part of Gods counsell concerning the sauing or killing of soules : because the same cannot possibly be prooued from any of the Apostles authenticall writings . For , the Apostle no doubt , if he had euer entended to put downe a Canon concerning the perpetuitie of actuall possession , then had he verie fit occasion therefore , in all , or some one of his Epistles to Timothie and Titus : where he purposely handles all ministeriall functions , and precisely puts downe all ecclesiasticall constitutions and orders concerning Church discipline . But , in no one of those his authenticall Epistles , is there any one Canon at all apparant , which may tend in shew , to any such purpose : and therefore , the perpetuitie of actuall possession , is no such part of Gods counsell , as may in any sort concerne the sauing or killing of soules . And as no one Canon : so , neither hath the Apostle himselfe ( in any his Canonicall writings ) giuen any one counsell at all , concerning such matters . No , not euen there , where he purposely entreats of the full power of the diuell : and had iust occasion ( if euer ) to haue giuen some aduise at the least , concerning the same . Especially , there where he calleth The prince of the ayre , that selfesame spirit , which euen now effectually worketh in the children of disobedience . Also euen there especially , where he affirmeth , all those the disobedient ones , to be strongly ensnared , and fearfully captiuated of the diuell at his pleasure . In these two places ( you see ) he purposely entreateth of the power of the diuell whatsoeuer . But , in neither of those places , the Apostle doth giue any one counsell at all concerning the perpetuitie of actuall possession : therefore , the same is no part of Gods counsell , which may any way concerne the sauing , or killing of soules . Exorcistes . Why sir ? euen in those places of Scripture which your selfe now reciteth , the Apostle saith plainly , that the diuell worketh effectually in the disobedient sort : and that those disobedient ones , are ensnared and captiuated of the diuell at his pleasure . These wordes , if they import not a counsell : yet are they a watch-word at least concerning such matters . For what imploy those words else I beseech you : but an actuall possession . Orthodoxus . They imploy an actuall power in the diuell : but no actuall possession at all . For else , either must all persons whatsoeuer , be actually possessed of satan , because , ( before regeneration ) it is the naturall condition of all men , yea , euen of the Apostles themselues , to be vnder his power : or you must necessarily conclude at the least , that onely the vnregenerate , and reprobate people are actually possessed of satan , for that the Apostle in those places entreateth onely of such . And so ( by consequence ) the yoong-youth at Notrub ; he was not actually possessed at all , because euerie man else , and euen you your owne selues do generally repute him , a religious , a godly , and a gracious youth . Moreouer , euen in that selfe same Epistle where the Apostle aduiseth the whole Church at Ephesus to be euerie way carefull in furnishing themselues with the compleate armour of God , for the better enabling of them against all the assaults of the diuell , and the speedier quenching of all his fierie darts , he giues them notwithstanding , no counsell at all for vsing of that their saide spirituall armour against any your supposed actuall possessions : and therefore the perpetuitie of actuall possession , was no part of Gods counsell , that might any way concerne the sauing , or killing of soules . If yea , then the Apostle himselfe , he hath not so sufficiently , and so fully instructed his Christian soldiours concerning an absolute vse of that their spirituall armour , as in equitie and conscience he ought ; and thereupon he is not free from their bloud . If no , then ( without question ) a plaine nullitie of actuall possession , now in these daies of the Gospel , is ( by the Apostle his purposed silence therein ) very apparantly euident . Besides that , the Apostle Peter , stirring vp ( in like ●ort ) the scattered Christians vnto a continuall and watchfull regard against all the dangerous vagaries the lion-like rampings , and greedie deuourings of satan : he maketh no mention at all of any their watchings and wardings against your supposed perpetuitie of actuall possessions . As also our Sauiour Christ ( admonishing Peter , and the other Apostles , of satan his inexorable desire to winow and sift them like wheate ) he speaketh no one word of any the extraordinarie power of the diuell , for actuall possessions . Whereas Paul , Peter , and our Sauiour himselfe , had euerie of them ( in those the forenamed places ) verie iust occasion to haue written thereof . Yea , and some of them also ( in some of those places at least ) woulde purposely haue handled your supposed actuall possession of diuels to the full : if so be the supposed continuance thereof had beene vndoubtedly determined in the secret counsell of God. But no one of them all ( in those the forenamed places , or any where else ) doe so much as once mention the same : and therefore the perpetuitie of actual possession ; is no such part of Gods counsell as may any waie concerne the sauing or killing of soules . Exorcistes . Though the perpetuitie of actuall possessions be not plainely expressed : yet , why may not the same be couertly implied in some part of the Scriptures ? Orthodoxus . Because , this your supposed ( may be ) cannot certeinly conclude from thence , any such supposed implication at all : and I argue further against you thus . If the perpetuitie of actual pssession , be , either expreslie , or implicatiuely conteined in the Worde , then also , the miraculous faith ( for suppressing such actuall possession ) is either expresly or implicatiuely contained in the word : but the latter is vndoubtedly false , and therefore also the first . Exorcistes . Why may not the miraculous faith be auouched perpetuall ? Orthodoxus . Because the same was but temporarie , and had onely her powerfull continuance , so farre foorth as seemed good to the Lord , for an extraordinarie sealing vp and confirming of the word with miracles folowing . But that vse hath vndoubtedly ceased long since : and therefore also the miraculous faith ( attending such temporarie vse ) is vndoubtedly ceased . Howbeit , of this more at large , when wee come to handle the meanes of subduing the extraordinarie power of the diuell . In the meane time , I argue the matter against you thus . All true Christian churches , and the soundest Diuines in our daies , doe generallie conclude a finall discontinuance of the miraculous faith , in these daies of the Gospell : and therefore ( by consequence ) the vndoubted determination of the diuell his extraordinarie power of actuall possession . Exorcistes . Do you then , verie confidently denie all power to the diuell : in these daies of the Gospell ? Orthodoxus . I onely impugne his supposed extraordinarie power , for the perpetuitie of actuall possession : I denie not his power of obsession at all . Exorcistes . Why ? what vnderstand you , by his power of obsession ? Orthodoxus . This question ( I assure you ) is verie fitly propounded for hauing hitherto handled at large , the diuell his power of actuall possession : it remaineth now , to entreate a little of his power of obsession : wherein we need not to be tedious : the same being apparantly euident : and generally confessed of all men . Now therefore , by the diuell his power of obsession : I do heere vnderstand , some certeine predeterminate abilitie , facultie , or inclination of his spirituall nature , for the more powerfull enabling of his restlesse endeuours , and insatiable desires to worke our daily destruction : wherein he eftsoones assaulteth , circumuenteth , encloseth , inuironeth & besiegeth the seruants of God a fresh , with a purposed mind to deuoure them quite , were they not very mightilie protected by an inuincible power of the Lord. And this his said power of obsession , consisteth especially , either in an outward assaulting and vexing : or in an inward suggesting and tempting at least . Lycanthropus . What meane you by an outward assaulting and vexing ? Orthodoxus . I vnderstand thereby , all those their externall allurements , incumbrances , molestations , and griefes whatsoeuer ; wherewith the whole nature of man is wonderfully distressed , disquieted , and vexed . Partly by worldly auctoritie , examples , promises , compulsions , profites , pleasures , and so foorth : and partlie by fleshly affections , inclinations , dispositions , delights , attempts , and carnall practises whatsoeuer they be . Philologus . And what meane you by inward suggestings and temptings ? Orthodoxus . I vnderstand thereby , all those the internall allurements of satan whatsoeuer , wherewith he endeuoureth to drawe mens mindes from their dutifull obedience to God : by daring or thrusting into them , all trecherous and diuelish deuises , yea , and by kindling within them , all vngodly motions , affections , lustes , and desires . Nowe , for the speedie effecting hereof , the diuels they become lying spirits in the mouthes of false Prophets : they worke lying woonders , in all deceaueablenes of vnrighteousnes : they buffet mens minds with fearefull tentations : they endeuour , to fif●e and winow their soules , as men winow wheate : they make men vncleane , and replenish their hartes with filthie pollutions , that thereby they might draw them into open dissimulation with the holy Ghost : they vexe and torment men within and without : yea , & ( which more is ) they so dangerously ●ncumber mens iudgements , through the Law of their members , rebelling against the Law of their mindes , as eftsoones they enforce them to distrust their happie deliuerance , yea , and to desire their present dissolution , to be presently with Christ himselfe . Loe , thus much in effect : for the diuel his power of obsession . Lycanthropus . This sir ( I assure yon ) is a woonderfull power : and such as should foorthwith awaken our harts to a continuall watchfulnes . But , tell vs further I pray you , by what meanes the diuell especially effecteth these matters ? Orthodoxus . Although the diuel hath vndoubtedly innumerable meanes to accomplish his villanies : yet surely , the most principall , for the timely effecting of his power of obsession : is an holding men fast in the ignorance of God. That so , all the while they doe carelesly continue in darkenes , and sit still in the shadow of death : the diuell might assault them eftsoones at his pleasure , and come vpon them at vnawares , to accomplish in them his mischieuous purposes . Neither is this holding of men in palpable ignorance , impossible for satan ( by the permission of God ) to effect . Because the diuell himselfe being the God of this world ( and therefore , of an admirable power ) be both can , and doth purposely blindfold the minds of all infidels : least at any time , the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ ( the image of God ) should shine foorth vnto them . That ( hauing so insnared and captiuated the men at his pleasure ) they might from thencefoorth , walke on in vanitie of their mindes . And ( which more is ) that their vnderstanding ( by this meanes ) being darkened , they might ( through their owne ignorance , and hardnes of hart ( become aliants & strangers from the life of God : and ( being past feeling ) might foorthwith giue ouer themselues vnto wantonnes , to worke all manner of vncleannes , yea , euen with insatiable , and greedie affections . Exorcistes . Wel sir. And how is it possible the diuel should accomplish these fearefull effects in any mans mind , but by an actuall possession at least ? Orthodoxus . Yes , the diuell he wel may , and doth easily effect all these , with many other like fearefull effects ; onely , by an actuall power , without any actuall possession at all . And this especially , by depriuing the world of that eternall word of life ; which was giuen to enlighten mens soules . He depriues the world of the word of life , either , by holding it altogether from them : or otherwise , by hindring the effectuall working power thereof at the least . He holds the word altogether from men , by forestalling and hindering the timely establishment of faithfull Preachers in euerie place . Againe , if he cannot possibly intercept the Preachers establishment , then he endeuors eftsoones to hinder ( at least ) the affectuall working power of the word , being preached powerfully among them . And this also , either by working effectually vpon the hearers infirmities , namely , vpon their naturall blindnes , dumbenes , deafenes , as also by making their eares without hearing : or , otherwaies , by practizing all possible resistance against the powerfull preaching , and preachers themselues . Howbeit , this his resistance against the power of the word , and preachers thereof : is not alwaies effected after one and the selfesame manner . For , sometimes he vseth an inward : and sometimes an outward resistance . By inward resistance , he laboureth chiefely , either to make the holy word it selfe , vnfit for mens mindes : and this , sometimes by stealing the word from out of their harts : sometimes by corrupting the puritie of the word it selfe , through a confused mixture of his cockell and darnell : sometimes , by peruerting the true purpose and sense of the Scripture it selfe : and sometimes also , by calling in question the certaintie and truth of the word . Or if ( notwithstanding these the aforesaid meanes ) he cannot possibly make the holy word vnfit for mens mindes : then he taketh a quite contrarie course , and endeuoureth to make mens mindes ( at least ) vnfit for the word . And this , partly , by entring effectually into their harts , and so , filling them full of all iniquitie : partly by circumuenting their harts so violently , as no preaching at all , may po●●ibly penetrate , or pearce thorough the same : partly , by prophaning their harts with the filthie pollutions of profits and pleasures : and partly also , by insnaring and captiuating their harts so powerfully , as they may not possibly be brought to acknowledge the truth . And this in effect , for his inward resistance . His outward resistance against the power of the word , and preachers thereof : is partly by faire meanes , and partly by foule meanes . By faire meanes first . And this especially , by making some outward faire shew , concerning the holy religion professed : or otherwaies , by fawning vpon the professors themselues , with an holy pretence of wishing their good . By fowle meanes also , he withstands the power of the word , and preachers thereof . And this especially , either by sifting and winnowing the professours thereof , as was shewed before : or , by entangling and intrapping them by some manner of meanes : or by a Iudas-like , and trecherous betraying of their persons & states : or ; by procuring fiery trials , persecutions , and troubles against them or , by committing the professours themselues vnto prison : or lastly , by an outragious tortoring , racking , tormenting and killing of their bodies outright . Loe , these ( in effect ) are the most principall meanes , whereby Satan effecteth his power of obsession : without any actuall possession at all . Exorcistes . Good sir ? I beseech you beware what you doe . And so much the rather , because , this your absolute deniall of actuall possessions ; will open a wide doore vnto Atheisme , and loozen the reines of our vnruly affections , to an irreligious , licentious , and dissolute carriage . For , let men but once heare they are free from all bodily danger of diuels : and what will they not foorthwith aduenture . Orthodoxus . Nay rather , this your obstinate auouching of actuall possession , it the verie high way vnto Atheisme , to an irreligious behauiour , and all carnall securitie . For , by making men verie idlely to gaze ( as they do ) at an imagined actuall possession of diuels , when no such matter ( in deed and in truth ) may soundly be prooued : what doe you else ( in effect ) but lull the whole world fast a sleepe in the cradell of carnall securitie ? Yea , and ( which more is ) by this meanes you make men forgetfull and carelesse of Satan his pernicious power of obsession : wherein lieth couertly enfolded , a very pestilent poyson , and most deadly confection for bodie and soule . Neither may you more fitly pleasure the diuell , nor more fully make him beholding vnto you in any thing else : then , in vpholding for him ( as you do ) a falslie imagined actuall possession . For , by this meanes , the mysterie of iniquitie , doth more freely and more forciblie worke in the mindes of men : and the diuell may more easily seduce their soules at vnwares : by vsing at his pleasure , the power which he hath , while the whole worlde ( at their pleasure ) so improuidently , and so carelesly stand musing vpon an imagned power which he hath not indeed . And , herein the subtile dealing of Satan , is nothing inferiour to the craftie bird-catcher : who ( while the silie poore birdes sit prying at , and playing with the whirligig , or staling before them ) doth cunningly clap them ( vp at vnawares ) in his net , and nippes them all dead in the head . Howbeit , that which is spoken may fully suffice , ( I perceiue ) for a caueat herein : you your selfe being thus driuen ( as you are ) into a maruelous maze concerning the matters in question . For these your idle vagaries , and often startings aside from the purpose propounded : do import a woonderfull defect in your skill , or implie a maruelous distrust in your cause at the least . Exorcistes . Nothing lesse I assure you . For , I am resolute ( as before ) in the actuall possession of diuels : which may yet more effectually be prooued thus . I draue out the diuell from the yoongman at Mahgnitton : and therefore the yoongman ( no doubt ) was actually possessed before . Orthodoxus . And I disprooue it effectually thus . The yoongman at Maghnitton was neuer actually possessed of satan : and therefore , you did not , nor could not possibly driue foorth the diuell from him . For , how is it possible you should dispossesse the diuell , of that partie , whom ( indeed & in truth ) he neuer possessed ? Howbeit , this question fals foorth verie fitly for another discourse : wherein shall be purposely put downe , the verie true meanes for subduing the power of diuels . Notwithstanding , the time now is farre spent , and our Supper doth stay on our comming : therefore , Let vs goe and refresh our selues with such repast as God sends : and afterwards , conferre of the point for an hower or twaine if you please . Otherwaies , I must put ouer the perfecting of our present discourse , till some other appointed season : because the next day ( if God will ) I must sequester my selfe to some other more priuate meditations , for the Saboth daies exercise . Lycanthropus . And we also our selues must returne homewards to morrow vpon vrgent occasion . Howbeit , we are all verie loth to leaue the matter so raw as it is : and therefore , if it please Exorcistes and the rest of the companie , we will , rather loose an howers sleepe or two , then goe home vnresolued herein . Exorcistes . I am ( for mine owne part ) verie willing thereto : and so much I dare say for the rest . Orthodoxus . Let vs then arise , and depart . The end of the seuenth Dialogue . The eight Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . Of the vndoubted true force , for the timely subduing of this the forenamed power of the Diuell . Whether anie created meanes may therein preuaile ? yea , and whether praier and fasting , haue in them selues , any power , to effect such a worke ? The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOMACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Orthodoxus . THe Lord hauing in great mercie enabled our bodies a fresh , by his good blessings bestowed vpon vs : it shal not be good to trifle the time , but forthwith go an end in our conference . Come on therefore Exorcistes , repeate , and prosecute , your lately propounded argument . Exorcistes . This then it is . I draue foorth a diuell , from the yoongman at Mahgnitton : therefore the yoongman he was actually possessed before Else how could I possiblie haue driuen foorth the diuell : if he had in the yoongman no possession at all ? Orthodoxus . I answere you thus as before . The yoongman at Mahgnitton he was not actually possessed of satan : therefore , you could not possiblie driue a diuell from him . For , how is it possible you should actually dispossesse the diuel of that man : in whom he was neuer actually possessea ? And thus still , you may plainly perceiue your preposterous happe , in disputing this point . For ( notwithstanding any thing hitherto heard ) you are yet as farre from the probable dispatch of your pretēded actuall possession , as you were at the first : and wil be I warrant you , so long as you insist ( as you do ) vpon the propounded question it selfe . This is nothing else , but to proue the same by the same : the which in all ages hath bin accounted , a reason , without any reason at al. Howbeit , because you are now fledde ( as it seemes ) to your vttermost refuge ; I meane , to the succourlesse shelter of that your weather beaten action pretēded to be done at Mahgnitton : I do verily perswade my selfe , that ( if once you be daunted therein ) you will shortly giue ouer the skirmish . Exorcistes . Yea sir. When I see you haue prooued my action at Mahgniton , no action at all concerning the actuall dispossessing of diuels : I will then lay my hand on my mouth , without any further replie to any thing spoken . But , this I suppose , must not be performed in hast . Orthodoxus . Well , then we will take so much more leisure in performing the same . And therefore hauing hitherto , very fully discouered that tyrannicall dominion of diuels , which might anie way concerne their power of possession , or their power of obsession : we will now proceed next , to an orderly examination of that superiour ineuitable working power , whereby the aforesaid actuall possession of diuels is vndoubtedly conquered , subdued , squashed , and euen vtterly annihilated , in comparison of any the precedent poysons thereof . Yea , and so much the rather , we entend verie carefully to follow this our entended course : because in an only Imagination thereof , there doth lie ( it should seeme ) the verie fortresse it selfe , of all those fantasticall and idle conceits , which concerne your supposed dispossessing of Satan . And therefore , hauing once ( by a conscionable discouery of the infallible truth ) made knowen to your conscience , that , your pretēded action which was wrought at Mahgnition , cannot possibly chalenge the approoued priuiledge of any exordinarie power from the Lord , for the actuall dispossessing of diuels . I hope we may confidently conclude from the consideration thereof , an apparant nullitie of all actuall possessions in these daies of the Gospel . Lycanthropus . That is vndoubtedly true : and therefore , I pray you proceede . Orthodoxus . With verie good will. First therefore , this said tyrannicall dominion of diuels ( respecting especially , their temporarie power for actuall possession ) the same euer was , and is effectually subdued by an onely extraordinarie , a supernaturall , and supereminent power of the omnipotent , eternall God. Which selfesame supernaturall power , the Egyptian sorcerers were forcibly constrained to acknowledge for some etsbang-elohim : that is , some Diuine operation or vertue extraordinarily proceeding from the Almightie Iehouah himselfe . And , because the holy spirit of God , is that onely essentiall vertue of the father , and the sonne together : therefore , that selfesame speech of the sorcerers concerning this power , it is by our Sauiour Christ , euen purposely interpreted Pneuma , kaidactylos theou : that is , the spirit and finger of God. Because , that selfesame holy spirit ( being an essentiall power , equally proceeding from the Father , and Sonne together ) doth ( as it were by a finger , or hand ) verie powerfully distribute some certaine extraordinarie gifts , and graces to some certaine peculiar persons : peculiarly appointed of God , for the actuall dispossessing of diuels . And , this said supereminent power of the Lord , is twofold : namely , either immediate or mediate . Exorcistes . What meane you by the immediate power of God ? Orthodoxus . I vnderstand thereby , that selfesame diuine , supernaturall , and supereminent authority of Iesus Christ the stronger . Who , of him selfe alone , and without any one instrument or meanes attending vpon him , is that vndoubted el-gibbor , that inuincible preuailing power , which doth ( by the commaunding force of his spiritual scepter ) very valiantly vanquish , ouercome , and subdue the actuall power of satan the strong armed man : notwithstanding he mainteined before , a peaceable possession ouer the world . Philologus . And , what meane you by the mediate power of God ? Orthodoxus . I vnderstand thereby , a secondary , or subordinate power of the almighty Iehouah : executed by some certeine speciall persons , peculierly appointed by the Lord him selfe , to that speciall purpose . Who ministerially , and , in the onely name , mediation , and vertue of Iesus Christ : doe valiantly conquere , and actually ouercome the actuall power of satans possession . For , very certeine it is , that the sonne of God , he powerfully expelleth diuels by his owne immediate power : whereas all other besides , they do it ministerially , in , and by the vertue & power of Christ his name . Howbeit , we haue yet to consider further , that , this same mediate power of the Lord , is also twofold : namely , Apostolicall , and Ecclesiasticall . Exorcistes . What meane you by the Apostolical mediate power ? Orthodoxus . I vnderstand thereby , that peculier prerogatiue , or that extraordinary spirituall preheminence , operation , and vertue , wherewith the onely wise God , more especially inuested his chosen Apostles themselues , concerning some extraordinary power for the powerfull expelling of diuels . And all this , for the more authenticall confirmation of the newly published Gospel , throughout those newly established churchess , wheresoeuer they came . Lycanthropus . And , what meane you by the ecclesiasticall mediate power ? Orthodoxus . I vnderstand thereby , some extraordinary peculier priuiledge , or speciall grace very extraordinarily bestowed vpon the newly established churches , ouer spirits and diuels . And this especially , for a further more admirable approbation of the newly established Gospel : so admirably planted among them before , by the extraordinary preachers thereof . Wherein , we haue to consider further : that , this selfesame ecclesiasticall mediate power , is here , to be considered in a double respect . Namely , in respect , either of the churches primitiue : or of the churches successiue . Philologus . How first , in consideration of the churches primitiue ? Orthodoxus . The ecclesiasticall mediate power ( respecting more especially the churches primitiue ) was an extraordinary ability , faculty , vertue , or force , very apparantly euident in the 70. disciples , and some other besides . They hauing euery of them , an extraordinary power from the Lord , to subdue the actuall possession of diuels ▪ during especially that primary age immediately succeeding the Apostles of Christ And this also , for the more admirable watering of that selfesame Gospel of saluation : so admirably planted before , by Christ himselfe and his chosen Apostles . Lycanthropus . And , how next in consideration of the churches successiue ? Orthodoxus . The ecclesiasticall mediate power more especially respecting the churches successiue , was some certeine imagined faculty , ability , or force , in some certeine peculier persons : for the timely expelling of spirits and diuels from out of newly borne infants , before their admission to baptisme . Hauing also ( for that speciall purpose ) their Exorcists and Exorcismes peculierly appointed thereto . Which said order , or rather disorder of Exorcizing ( in as much as it wants the warrant of the word , and for that also it foisteth very odly into the church , such new found offices , and officers as neuer were planted by Christ : ) it was neuer yet iustifiable in the court of conscience , and we woonder not at all , though the same ( being no plant of the almighty his planting , ) be now plucked vp quite by the rootes . Loe , these be those seuerall sorts of Exorcizings which were euer yet practized in the true church of Christ : since the very first time the Gospel began to be preached among them . And , these Exorcizings also , by some others of speciall account , are distinquished , or intituled thus ; namely , they are , either archicall , apostolicall , ecclesiasticall , or infanticall . Howbeit , ( respecting perspi●uity or plainesse , and , for that especially they come all to one and the selfesame period ) we do rather , the more purposely retaine our own order , rehearsed before . Exorcistes . But , tel me I pray you , were there no other sorts of Exorcizings at any time practized , but these fower which your selfe haue expressed ? Orthodoxus . Yes , there hath euer beene , and will be to the end of the world a certeine conterfeite , or fained faculty pretended by some : for expelling the possession and power of the diuel : and the same also vndoubtedly proceeding from a preposterous emulation , or rather , from an apishimitation of that selfesame extraordinary power apparantly euident in the Apostolicall or primitiue church . For in all ages of the world , some certeine od persons , are wonderfully affected , with either glory or gaine at the least . These men therefore perceiuing how easie a matter it was , and how glorious a thing with the faithfull , for any to haue power ouer diuels ; they eftsoones attempted , or at least , they pretended the selfesame power in themselues . Yea , and which more is , euen satan also ( for the better enthronizing of himselfe in the seate of God , as also , for a more easie establishing of all his dangerous errours ) he in like manner attempted an apish imitation of this the admirable power of the Lord , for the expelling of diuels . And this his pestilent purpose , he might so much the more easily effect : by how much he plainely perceiued that , the miraculous faith did not necessarily require such special persons only as were vpright with God , and righteous before men . Perceiuing therefore that the very hipocrites also and reprobate wretches ( men fit for his purpose ) might fully participate with that selfesame speciall power for the admirable expelling of spirits and diuels ; as well as the other : Satan himselfe , he also vndertooke that selfesame enterprise , and began by himselfe and his instruments , to practise the like . And , this said counterfeit or fained facultie for expelling the power of spirits and diuels ; is also foretold . Namely , Satanicall , Ethnicall , Iudaicall and Papisticall . Lycanthropus . What meane you by the Satanicall facultie ? Orthodoxus . That selfesame Thrasonicall brag , or that Spanish-like Brauado , wherwith the diuel adiured our Sauiour Christ : as though by his great wordes he could skar , or by his Exorcizing power he would binde our Sauiour himselfe , beyond the vtmost borders of Egypt , saying , I adiure , or coniure thee ( thou Christ ) that thou torment me nothing at all . Howbeit , his successe in that proude enterprise , was not vnlike to the proude Spaniards successe in eightie eight : for ( notwithstanding any their magicall skill , or Thersites-like vaunts ) they were both constrayned to get home by weeping crosse , with confusion and shame to themselues . Pneumatomachus . And what meane you by the Ethnicall facultie ? Orthodoxus . That Satanicall pretended power which Satan did seeme to practise by heathenish persons , as by his organicall instruments for that speciall purpose : howbeit , such as were strangers and forreiners from the Church of Christ. These men notwithstanding , by christals , by rings , by stones , by hearbs , and such other like fooleries ; they would seeme to doe something in shew at the least . Philologus . And what meane you by the Iudaicall facultie ? Orthodoxus . That selfesame Satanicall violence , which the diuell also , by those his pharisaicall organons endeuoured to establish and to communicate from hand to hand , vnto all the posterity following . And these Iudaicall adiurations , they were so much the more dangerous , by how much the patrones and professors thereof , did ( in outward appearance at least ) more neerely approch to the Church of God. And , for that also , by an execrable and blasphemous prophaning of that sacred and vnexpresable name of the Lord , tetragrammaton : they verie pestilently pretended the powerfull establishment of their pestilent practises . Yea , and which more is , so soone as the holy name of our Sauiour Christ began to be admirably and powerfully published abroad : they eftsoones also , abused that glorious name , in euery of their said exorcismes , adiurations , or coniuring attempts . Imagining the honorable name of Iesus , to be much more powerfull for that speciall purpose : then the name tetragrammaton was euer before . And hereof it came also to passe , that the seuen sonnes of Sceua the Iewe ( being stirred vp with a like counterfeit zeale ) did thereby vndertake to adiure the diuels to their cost . Exorcistes . Not so : for Cyprian very flatly affirmeth , that the diuels gaue place to their said coniurations . Orthodoxus . No such matter at all appeeres in the text . Nay , it telleth vs rather , that , the euill spirits ranne violently vpon those Coniurours , ouercame them , and preuailed against them : insomuch as the Coniurours fledde foorth of that house , all naked and wounden . Nowe , these kindes of Exorcismes were very ordinarie among manie in those daies , which were not of the Colledge of Christ : yea , and some of them also but reprobates . Which declareth plainely vnto vs , that , the gift of myracles was then indifferently bestowed vpon good and bad : so farre off was it , that any holines of that instrument effected the worke . Lycanthropus . And , what meane you by the papisticall facultie ? Orthodoxus . That selfesame presupposed Satanicall power which was compounded , partly of Gentilisme , and partly also of Iudaisme , as a verie mingle-mangle , or hotchpotch of all the Magicall sorceries of satan : consolidate fully in one filthie confection , to the more dangerous deceiuing of vnstable and ignorant persons . For first , they had their lygatures , their herbes , their consecrated verum , their rootes , their hol●● water , their salt , and such other odde reliques , after the manner of the Ethnickes : and obserued in euerie of their ad●urations , the heathenish Exorcismes , their consecrated christals , their sacred rites , their magicall ceremonies , and coniuring charmes . Then next , from the Iewes they had also the sacred names of their God , tetra-grammaton , of Angels , of Patriarkes , of Christ , of the Apostles and holy Martyrs of God : that the diuell , ( by such glorious appearances ) might the more grosly delude and bewitch with strong illusions , the mindes of the Infidels . Loe , these in effect are those other sort of Exorcismes or Coniurations which were couertly brought in by the cunning of satan : at any time since the Apostolike or Primatiue age . Now then , do tell ●et Exorcistes ( I pray you ) among whether of these sortes of adiurations you do range or consort , that your supposed dispossessing of satan from the yoongman at Mahgnitton ? Exorcistes . Not among any of those fower last rehearsed : for they are but Satanicall and diuelish , by whomsoeuer effected . Orthodoxus . Neither may you presume to consort the same , among any of those other declared before : for , they were all supernaturall , by whomsoeuer effected , and continued onely in that primatiue age , as hath beene , and shall be apparantly prooued . Yea , and you your owne selfe haue elsewhere confessed , that the miraculous curing of feauers , palsies , leprosies , diseases , and that driuing out of diuels by Christ and his owne Apostles gaue credit to the glorious Gospell . Which said Gospell of Christ , ( being alreadie so fullie confirmed by the Apostles preaching , and theis miracles folowing ) must now be entertained by faith , without any such heathenish expectation , or curious requiring of woonders , as the ●uill and adulterous nations do daily demaund . Exorcistes . Howsoeuer you catch holde of any my scattered sentences , verie certeine I am , and fiue hundred are able to witnes : that , I draue foorth a diuell from the yoongman there . Orthodoxus . You are certeine , and fiue hundred are able to witnes , that you bore them in hand you wrought such a feate . But , how is your selfe , or any one of those fiue hundred able to auouch on their oathes , that ( indeed and in truth ) you draue foorth a diuell : sith diuels are such inuisible , and impalpable spirits , as cannot possiblie be discerned by any sensible meanes . Exorcistes . I doe freely confesse there can be no sensible appearances of any their essentiall departures from men : because spirites and diuels , they are onely of a spirituall , inuisible , and impalpable being . Howbeit , that the yoong-man at Mahgnitton was vndoubtedly dispossessed of satan , the signes thereof doe confirme , which are , crying aloud , rending sore , and leauing as dead : these signes were seene and heard at the instant of his deliuerance . And therefore , from thence I doe reason thus . Where there was crying aloud , rending sore , and leauing as dead , there were the vndoubted true signes , of the dispossessing of satan . But in the yoongman at Mahgnitton there was crying aloud , rending sore , and a leauing as dead : therefore , there were in the yoongman at Mahgnitton , the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan . Orthodoxus . I answere you thus . Where there is crying aloud , rending sore , & a leauing as dead , there are the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan . But in mania , in phrenesies , in the mother , in conuulsions , in Catalepsies , in Epilepsies , and Lunacies , there is crying aloud , rending sore , & a leauing as dead : therfore in euery of the aforesaid diseases , there are the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan . So thē , by this ( you see ) it is very apparant , & you must likewise cōclude , that so many as are sicke of the aforesaid diseases , they are actually also possessed of Satan , because in euerie of them also , those your supposed infallible signes of dispossession are verie apparant : or else you must be enforced to confesse , that crying aloud , rending sore , and leauing as dead , they are no such vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan , as you would beare vs in hand they be . Exorcistes . Why man , they are the vndoubted true signes , put downe by the blessed Euangelistes : to declare the like dispossession performed else where by our Sauiour himselfe . For , so soone as Christ had but said to the diuell , thou dumbe and deafe spirit , I charge thee come out of the childe , then , foorthwith the spirit hee cried , and rent the childe sore , and came out of him , and the childe was as one being dead , insomuch as many said he is surely dead . See now I beseech you , whether these be vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of Satan ? Orthodoxus . Well , goe to . If we must in any case account them the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan : then , do tell me ( I pray you ) whether we must take them for the precedent , or the subsequent signes of such dispossessions ? I meane , whether we must account them , such vndoubted true signes , as doe onelie preceed , and go before the action it selfe : or such rather as do necessarily succeede and folow the same ? Exorcistes . Euen for such vndoubted true signes as doe necessarily succeed the dispossession it selfe : otherwaies how could they be certeine signes of a certeine deliuerance , the deliuerance it selfe not fully effected ? And so , the Euangelist Marke he puts them downe as the subsequent signes of that selfesame action . Orthodoxus . But yet , the Euangelist Luke , he telleth vs plainely , that , while the childe was comming to Christ , and , or euer that Christ began to adiure or command the diuell to depart , the diuell he rent and tore the childe . Thereby declaring vnto vs , that , those cryings aloude , those rendings and tearings , and that leauing as dead : are rather the vndoubted true signes of Satan his actuall possession , then of any his dispossession at all . So then , howsoeuer the Euangelist Marke doth put downe those matters partly preceeding , and partly succeeding the action it selfe : Verie certaine I am , it was neuer his purpose to haue them esteemed as vndoubted true signes of euerie the dispossessions of Satan whatsoeuer : but rather , to be taken as the infallible effects of that selfesame speciall action , which Christ ( at that present ) performed . Otherwise , if these cryings , these rendings , and this leauing as dead , must necessarily confirme vnto vs the certaintie of euerie dispossession of Satan in whomsoeuer : then , how should we be assuredly perswaded concerning the certaine truth of all other the dispossessions of Satan , in whom , those the aforesaid signes are not found ? Namely , of those whom Christ performed in the Gergesenes , of those which the seuentie disciples effected , and of that which Paul accomplished in the Pythonist , with sundrie other besides : for , in no one of those the dispossessions of Satan , are any of those your vndoubted true signes reported , and yet we doubt not at all of their certaine deliuerances . The premisses therefore considered , we may verie fitly retort your reason vpon you thus . In those adiurations whatsoeuer , where there was no crying aloude , no rending sore , nor no leauing as dead , there were no vndoubted true signes of any dispossessing of Satan . But in all the adiurations which concerne the aforesaid examples , there was no crying aloude , no rending sore , nor no leauing as dead : therefore in all the adiurations which concerne the aforesaid examples , there were no vndouted true signes of the dispossessing of satan . Thus then it is very apparant you see , by all the premisses , that ( vnlesse you will purposely fall into palpable absurdities ) you may at no hand auouch , that those cryings , those rendings and tearings , and that leauing for dead , are the vndoubted true signes of the dispossessing of satan . No , you must rather perswade your selfe , they were purposely reported for speciall and proper effects of that speciall and proper action of Christ : and , not considerately put downe for perpetuall , and vndoubted true signes of all the actuall dispossessings of spirits and diuels in whomsoeuer . Notwithstanding , be it supposed ( which will neuer be prooued ) that , your selfe did vndoubtedly driue foorth a diuel from the yoongman at Mahgnitton , and that , some cryings aloude , some rendings sore , and some leauing as dead , were then also the speciall effects of that your supposed speciall action : doe here tell vs I pray you , after what speciall manner you effected the action ? Whether onely by meanes : or by a miraculous manner ? Exorcistes . Surely , euen onely by meanes : and not by any miraculous manner of working at all . Physiologus . Good Maister Orthodoxus , let me argue this matter a little . Come on Exorcistes , doe you hold in good earnest , that diuels may bee driuen foorth from men : and that onelie by meanes ? Exorcistes . I am very confident therein I assure you . Physiologus . Make your mind plaine , before we proceede . And tel me ( I pray you ) whether spirtts and diuels ( by very natural , or corporall meanes ) may be truely dispossessed , and driuen from men ? Exorcistes . Yea , euen by very naturall , or corporall meanes . Physiologus . Why man , spirits and diuels , they are meere spirituall creatures . But , such is the proper condition of spirituall creatures , that , all corporall matters whatsoeuer , they come short thereunto by many degrees : and therefore , we may boldly conclude , that those corporall or sensible things , can work nothing efficiently in spirits and diuels ; can offer no violence at all vnto them ; nor possibly expell them from any their actuall possessions . Exorcistes . Yes sir , I am able to demonstrate this matter , by an argument of comparison , thus . There is one , and the selfesame condition of spirits , and of liuing mens soules : for they are both of them spirituall essences . But , euen by a meere corporall , or sensible meanes , may some violence be offered to liuing mens soules , yea , they may thereby , eftsoones be separated quite from their bodies : and therefore , euen to spirits also ( by meanes of some corporall or sensible matter ) there may eftsoones , some violence be offered , and they also may be expelled quite , from their actuall possessions in man. Physiologus . Your argument of comparison , it consisteth not of such pares as are equally alike in euerie respect ; no , it halteth downe right in that selfesame point , wherupon it is more especially grounded : and therefore , it enforceth no necessarie conclusion vpon vs at all . For , the condition of spirits , and of liuing mens soules ( howsoeuer alike in spirituall essence ) it is vtterly vnlike , respecting the bodies whereupon they both worke . Soules , they are properly conioyned to their owne proper bodies , as the verie first essential forme thereof appointed by God : howbeit , spirits ( not by any proprietie , but by vsurpation rather ) they are onely actually there , as the afflictors , or tormentors permitted by God. So then ( for those former respects ) the soules of liuing men , doe necessarily require in those their owne bodies , some such certaine dispositions and qualities , as the diuels themselues ( they being no true essentiall formes of those bodies ) require not at all . And therefore , spirits or diuels , they may actually afflict and torment those selfesame bodies of men , how vnfitly soeuer they finde them : whereas the soules of men ( vnlesse those their said bodies be aptly proportioned and fitted thereto ) they cannot informe them at all . Exorcistes . Sir , howsoeuer you enforce a disparison betweene spirites and soules , concerning especially their dealings with bodies , and thereby would frustrate the force of my argument : verie certeine I am , that spirits or diuels , they may be driuen foorth from mens bodies , and that onely by meanes . Physiologus . But , by what meanes I beseech you ? whether , by an vncreated : or by a created meanes . Exorcistes . Not by any vncreated meanes at all . For how can I possiblie practise that thing which is either vncreated : or not existing in nature ? Physiologus . Then you do flatly conclude that spirites or diuels they may actually be dispossessed , euen by a created , or meere naturall meanes . Exorcistes . Yea , so much I flatly conclude , Physiologus . This then I must tell you for certeine , that you doe very fondly conclude you wotte not what . For , this is vndoubtedly true , that , no created or naturall meanes whatsoeuer : may efficiently extend themselues to any such supernaturall actions , as do anie way concerne the dispossessing of diuels . Because , all such supernaturall actions , they proceed not at all from any power of nature : but from the onely power of obedience . By the onely efficacie of which obedientiall power , euen any thing , of euerie thing may easilie be effected : although yet , in an onely respect of the mightie Iehouah himselfe , the sole and onely efficient thereof . For , albeit the Saints of the Lord , namely Moses , and manie others are saide to effect supernaturall actions : yet , therein wee must rightly vnderstand , that onely the Lord alone , he workes that by his Saints , which he workes by himselfe . And therefore in saying as you do , that spirits or diuels they may be dispossessed from men , by any created , or naturall meanes : you do therein , very ignorantly auouch , you wot not well what . Exorcistes . Yes sir , I wot well what I say : and , am able to demonstrate the truth thereof , by many examples . Physiologus . Let vs heare your examples , which make for this matter . Exorcistes . With verie good will. First therefore Iosephus verie plainely reporteth , that when Titus and Vespasian besieged Ierusalem : there was an Exorciste , that time in the hoste , who ( by a certeine stone in a ring ) deliuered many that were possessed of Satan . Moreouer , Eleazar the Hebrew , ( as the said Iosephus recordeth ) he vsed certeine Exorcismes which were inuented and made by Salomon , for the expelling of spirits and diuels : namely , ringes , rootes , herbes , and such other like sensible matters . But , the stone in the ringe , those rootes , and those herbes , they were onely created , and meere naturall meanes : therefore some onely created , and meere naturall meanes , it hath , and may haue in it selfe , an actuall power , for the dispossessing of spirits and diuels . Physiologus . Why doe you not also alleage that which the said Iosephus and Aelianus also reporteth concerning the herbe Cynospastus , being otherwaies called Aglaphotis , which hath ( they say ) a certeine speciall operation for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels : for thereby also you might haue borne vs in hand , that herbes in times past , haue beene workers of miracles . Exorcistes . Well sir , howsoeuer you would scoffe out the matter : doe answere Iosephus . Physiologus . I will. Iosephus , he hath heretofore so often beene tainted in matters of more waightie importance , as we haue the lesse cause to credit his pen in these his senseles reports . Besides that let this which he writes concerning these tryfling toyes , be esteemed for certeine truthes , I meane , that some such dipossessions were effected in some outward appearance : yet Wierus , he flatly affirmes , that Iosephus the Iewe , Vespasian the Ethnicke , and Eleazar also the Hebrew : were euerie of them woonderfully bewitched with the iuggling sleights of the diuell . Who for the present , did purposely pretend the giuing of place to an imagined vertue in ringes , in rootes , in herbes , and in stones : that ( by meanes of such sundrie his illusions ) those persons themselues , might the more easily be brought to repose greater confidence in those tryfling toies , then in the almighty Iehouah , the onely disposer and guider of all things . And for the furthering of this his diuellish endeuour the better , he brought it also to passe , that all those his said Exorcismes , they were very confidently fathered vpon Salomon himselfe , in an especiall regard of his singular wisedome : that , by such legerdemaines , he might winne the more credit to all those his sprituall illusions . But seeing it is certeinly true , that these created instruments could not effectiuely extend foorth themselues to the powerfull effecting of any such supernaturall effects : what man will bee so wilfully madde , as once to beleeue , or once to esteeme those his tryfling tales , for infallible truthes ? Againe , sith Salomon the verie mirrour it selfe of heauenly wisedome , being vsually accustomed ( as the Hebrewes report ) to dispute of trees and of herbes , from the Cedar of Libanon , to the verie Hysope it selfe , and ( which more is ) of beastes , of fowles , of creeping things , and of fishes ( in the knowledge of all which there lieth hid from the world , much secret Philosophie for the admirable effecting of such admirable matters by meere naturall meanes . ) If Salomon ( I say ) disputing these matters , hath left no one monument at all of any such admirable skill , throughout the whole scriptures recorded : what wight is so sottishly minded , as once to imagine that wise Salomon himselfe was the first inuentour of anie such palpable fooleries : or , that he was the author of any such Magicall enchantments , and superstitious Exorcismes , as are so iniuriouslie , or rather , so blasphemouslie fathered vpon him ? Exorcistes . How basely soeuer you esteeme of these meanes which Iosephus reportes : yet , what say you to that which good Tobie declareth , concerning the perfume made with the fishes liuer ; which expelled the diuell from out of Sarah the daughter of Raguel . That perfume ( you know ) it was only a created , and meere naturall meanes : therefore , an onely created , and meere naturall meanes , it hath , and may haue in it , an actuall power , for the dispossessing of spirits and diuels . Physiologus . The booke of Tobiah , it is not Canonicall , and therefore , not authenticall enough , to conuince , or confirme any matter in controuersie . But , be it supposed Canonicall ; yet thus then I answere the same . Namely , that the forenamed perfume , so made of the liuer , it might lessen ( in some sort ) the present affliction : though , not vtterly expell the diuell his possession . For , that perfume , it might be some physicall meanes to drie vp or correct some bad disposition in Sarahs braine , arising naturally from the variable disposition of the moone it selfe , ouer moistning her braine , and making it more apt for the present apprehending of satan his entended afflictions . Which saide badde humour of hers , being by that meanes something alaied , the affliction withall , it would something abate : howbeit , vtterly to expell the diuell his possession , it could haue no possible power at all . No , that supernaturall action ( if any such were ) was supernaturally effected , by a supernaturall power in the Angell . Who taught not Tobiah by any force of that perfume to expell the diuell : but tolde him rather before , that so soone as the perfume was kindled , the diuell should foorthwith be expelled . Not , that the perfume it selfe should effectiuely procure any such supernaturall action : but be rather an apparant demonstration of the admirable effecting thereof . For , euen as it is not vndoubtedly necessarie that the washing of my handes shoulde be an efficient cause of the moones ecclipse , though the moone it selfe , at the verie time of my washing be vndoubtedly ecclipsed : so , neither was it necessarie that the forenamed perfume , should effectiuely procure of it selfe , that selfesame supposed dispossession of satan , howsoeuer satan ( at the verie instant it selfe ) was truelie dispossessed . So then , the Angell he taught by that perfume what should then come to passe : not rendring any one efficient cause , why it so came to passe . As also the verie text you alledge , it telleth vs not , that the perfume expelled the power of the diuell : but , that it was rather the Angell himselfe who cast the diuell foorth , at the verie same time the perfume was kindled . Now then , what was it I pray you that expelled the diuel ? the perfume which rose vp from the liuer ? no , but the Angell that bound him . And how did he binde him ? by any effectuall meanes of that perfume ? No , but at the verie same season the liuer perfumed , the Angell he bound the diuell , in the vtmost borders of Egypt . Giuing Tobiah that selfesame perfume as an infallible signe ( but no effectuall cause at all ) of Sarah her happie deliuerance . Thus then you plainely perceiue , that , no created , or meere naturall meanes , ●ath any efficient power of it selfe , for the actuall dispossessing of spirits and diuels . Exorcistes . Wel sir , howsoeuer you may iustly challenge the authority of Tobiah , for not being authenticall , I haue one example from the canonicall scriptures , to confirme the infallible truth of that which I hold herein . Namely , that admirable action of Dauid : who onely but plaied with his harp , and the euil spirit of the Lord departed from Saul . Howbeit , that harpe , and that playing of Dauid thereon , were onely created , and meer naturall meanes : therefore , some onely created , or meere naturall meanes , may haue in it naturally , an effectuall power for the dispossessing of spirits and diuels . Physiologus . In deed , if spirits and diuels , had their peculier bodies naturally vnited vnto them , as Apuleius affirmeth : saying , that diuels are liuing creatures , constituted of airy bodies , of passible minds , and in time also eternall : then , there would be no inconuenience at all , to hold that spirits and diuels ( by a melodious sound , or some other such sensible meanes ) might be altered in their actions , and expelled from men . For , the Platonists , they flatly affirme that diuels are a certeine meane , betweene the intellectuall spirits , who are of a pure spirituall substance : and between men , hauing bodies constituted of the foure elements . Howbeit , because the sacred scriptures , and catholike faith doe iointly auouch that spirits and diuels are of an Angelical nature , and that ( howsoeuer by malice corrupted ) their naturall faculties doe still remaine absolute in them : we may consequently conclude , that therefore , no sensible matter , or corporall vertue is able of it selfe , directly , or indirectly to effect in them , any such action , they beeing properly of a spirituall substance . So that , the diuels themselues , they cannot ( by any such created or corporall meanes ) be compelled to any thing : much lesse may they be violently expelled from their actuall possessions in men . Although yet , I dare not deny , but that ( by a diuine and supernaturall power whether immediate , or mediate ) they may be dispossessed , or driuen from their hold . Exorcistes . But the very text it selfe doth plainely auouch , that , when Dauid did play on his harpe : the euill spirit of the Lord departed from Saul . Physiologus . My answere is this . It is generally doubted , and , our selues do flatly deny , that Saul was euer essentially possest with either spirit or diuel . Howbeit , because you labour with tooth and naile , to prooue the dispossessing of Demoniakes by an onely created or meere naturall meanes , and thereupon also , would threape vpon vs a supposed essentiall possession in Saul : go to , let it for arguments sake be granted ( which will neuer be prooued ) that Saul in deed , was so possest as your selfe do happely imagine : what then infer you thereof ? Exorcistes . I infer from thence , his vndoubted dispossession : and that also , by the onely bare meanes of a melodious instrument . For , Dauid but plaid with his harpe ; and the euil spirit of the Lord departed from Saul . Physiologus . Howsoeuer your selfe may conceiue of the matter , it is doubted of some , whether the euil spirit did euer depart from Saul : neither is any man bound to beleeue the same as a certeine truth . For , this is vndoubtedly true , that , a man may be alwaies actually possessed : and yet , not alwaies apprehend the violent , or actuall outrage of satan . Besides that , if Saul had been dispossessed in deed ; yet , that selfesame dispossession was effected , neither by the inherent holinesse of Dauid himselfe , nor , by any supposed helpe of his harpe . For , a meere created nature , it hath of it selfe , no possible power to expel the possession of spirits or diuels : as was shewed before : no , that is onely an extraordinary and supernaturall work of the Lord. Exorcistes . Yea , but the text , it telleth vs plainely , that , when Dauid once handled his harpe : the euil spirit of the Lord departed from Saul . Physiologus . That is , the euill spirit , he shewed not his outragious force , as before in Saul . Vnderstanding thereby , that the torments of Saul ( through the melodious sound of Dauids harpe ) they might for the time be something abated : though the euill spirit it selfe ( if any such there ) was not vtterly expelled from Saul himselfe , and thus much also affirmeth the text . Namely , that when Dauid did handle his harpe : king Saul was refreshed or eased . Yea , and the seruants also of Saul , they accordingly aduised him a little before , to procure to himselfe some excellent harper : that , when the euill spirit should vexe him , the said harper might play with his harpe . And wherefore I pray you ? to expell the diuell ? nay , but to ease the king for the present . Exorcistes . How should the king be eased at all : and , the spirit not expelled out of his bodie ? Physiologus . Verie well I assure you . For , this we may boldly auouch , namely , that by meanes of a melodious sound , or some other like sensible matter , such as are actually afflicted of Satan , they may haue their afflictions , for some season abated : notwithstanding the actuall possession of Satan it selfe be not vtterly expelled , and this also in a double respect . First , because the action of all actiues , are euermore actuall in a predisposed patient : in such a subiect ( I meane ) as is proportionably appliable and fitted before , to the orderly apprehension of those selfesame intended actions . For , spirits or diuels , they cannot essentially alter any one qualitie in a corporal matter , when , and so oft as it pleaseth themselues : they onely may effect some such kinde of thing , by meanes of some corporall actiues . And , for that selfe-same consideration , when they would afflict any man with their actuall torments : they doe eftsoones respect the naturall disposition of some corporal matter , whereupon they may worke their intended effects . Knowing this by experience , that , in euerie such matter as naturally hath in it , the selfesame naturall qualities : a transmutation of qualities may more easily be effected by much . And , hereof also it is , that certaine Lunatike persons are eftsoones verie strangely , and diuersly afflicted at some one time more then another : according to the variable disposition of the Moone it selfe , as was shewed before . Because the Moone being predominant ouer all moist bodies , and the braine also of man , it being naturally more moist then any part else : the said braine is therefore more apt at one time , to receiue the actions of Satan then it is at another , according to the variable dispositions of the Moone it selfe , being then more effectuall in them . ●uen as also we see by dayly experience , that all shel-fish in the seas , they are at the increase of the Moone , verie full : and , eftsoones againe , by the onely decrease thereof they become verie emptie . So surely , the diuell , he obserueth those selfesame seasons , wherein the bodies of men ( being weake ) are more subiect to sicknesses : and , abuseth those times to his pestilent purposes . And therefore , euen as by the onely obseruation of meere naturall causes , the diuell he may aggrauate his actuall torments in men : so surely ( on the other side ) by the onely bare meanes of a melodious harmonie , or some other such sensible matter , there may be procured in the bodies of men , such an apt disposition , as is lesse subiect by much , to those the operations of Satan . And so , by consequence , those sefesame afflictions , or torments which were actually inflicted vpon them by Satan , they may verie well be abated or lessened : notwithstanding the diuell his actuall possession be not vtterly expelled . Lycanthropus . In what respect else may their said torments be abated ? Physiologus . Secondly , this said mitigation of satan his actuall torments inflicted on men , it may very easily be effected also if we but consider aright as we ought : that , to the actuall afflicting of any , there is required in the patient , an apt apprehension of the intended affliction . For , euen as delectation or pleasure , is none other thing els but the coniunction of some conuenient actiue , to some conuenient passiue , with an apt apprehension of the present delight , in so much , as where there is no such apprehension , there is no delectation : so surely , in affliction or heauinesse , which is the coniunction of some conuenient actiue , to some conuenient passiue , there must needs be an apt apprehension of the obiected affliction , otherwise , where such apprehension is wanting , there the affliction is no affliction at all . Whereupon it doth necessarily follow , that , euen as that which diminisheth the apprehension , diminisheth also the affliction it selfe : so surely on the other side , that which encreaseth the apprehension , it encreaseth also the delectation intended . But , a melodious sound or musicall harmony , it draweth vnto it the minds attention , and therewithall , retracteth the same from the offered affliction . And so , by consequence it might very well lessen those torments which satan did actually inflict vpon Saul , in as much as it drew the minds attention vnto it , and withdrew the same ( for that present ) from any such apprehension of the torments inflicted : but , by no meanes in it selfe , the same might vtterly expell the actuall possession of the spirit in Saul , if any such were . Exorcistes . If those torments actually inflicted by satan , might something be lessened : then might they also be totally remooued . For , seeing that spirits and diuels ( as your selfe doth affirme ) are vnable , ( at their owne pleasures ) to alter the essentiall qualities of any true naturall matter to serue their owne turne , but must doe it by meanes of some corporall actiues : it followeth consequently , that they are also of themselues vnable to afflict any man actually , but , must do it by meanes of some such corporall actiues as are able , very aptly to dispose the passiue matter it selfe , to an apt apprehension of the afflictiue action in the party possessed . And then , ( according to your owne reason a little before ) such a disposition ( by corporall or sensible meanes ) may eftsoones be wel procured in the body of man , as may make the same body become vtterly vnapt for the present , to apprehend any the actuall torments of satan . As for example , the disease called mania , which ( as Damascene reports ) is a perpetuall fury , very mightely disposed to an alienation of mind : and so by consequence , a disease very apt to the speedy apprehension of any Demoniacall affliction enforced vpon it . And yet notwithhanding , this said Demoniacall passion proceeding thence , as the same may ( by sensible meanes , and physicall medicines ) be mightely abated : so may it ( in like manner ) be thoroughly and perfitely cured , it being ( as physitions affirme ) an infirmity , eftsoones very curable . But , the disease it selfe being perfitely cured , that former disposition of the body ( which was naturally enclined to the speedy apprehension of those selfesame Demoniacall torments so answerable vnto it ) is in like manner remooued or staied : and so by consequence , the actiue affliction of satan , it may be vtterly expelled from men , by an vtter expelling before of the passiue disposition correspondent thereto in the party possessed . Now then , if a melodious harmony hath in it selfe an apparant efficacy , for the present appeasing of passions and greefes of the mind , and for the timely procuring of present delights ( as experience approoueth , and Augustine flatly affirmeth ) it followeth consequently , that , that selfesame melodious sound , which ( by a sensible , or meere naturall quality ) did vndoubtedly alter the mental passions in Saul : the same might also quite change the minds inclination , so farfoorth at the least , as that selfesame disposition which was naturally inclineable before , to the speedy apprehension of satan his actiue affliction was vtterly remooued , and thereby also , the foresaid affliction it was throughly and perfitely cured . Physiologus . Wel sir. Thus much first , you do fully confesse in your answere : namely , that , by a melodious sound , or some sensible meanes , there may wel be procured in the bodies , & humours of men , such an apt disposition , as the torments actually inflicted by satan , may vndoubtedly be abated , or lessened . Howbeit , from thence also , you would further inferre : that therefore , those the said torments actually inflicted by Satan , they may in like manner , be totally expelled . The reason of which your said inference , is vndoubtedly this . Namely , for that , by an vtter remoouing of the passiue disposition apprehending those torments inflicted : the actiue operation of Satan , is likewise vtterly remooued . And so , when the diuell ( to our seeming ) afflicteth no more : we must then be perswaded , that the euill spirit , is vndoubtedly departed from thence , and the partie possessed is quite deliuered . This ( I suppose ) is the verie summe of your inference : and the reason also it selfe , wherewith you would mannage the matter . Exorcistes . Yea sir , it is wholie the same . Physiologus . Then , this I must tell you for truth : that your assertion it is too too absurde , and grounded altogither , vpon phantasticall and idle conceits . For , first you imagine there can be no actuall possessions at all : vnlesse some naturall disposition , or passion at least , do offer before hand a free passage thereto . This ( I assure you ) is vtterly vntrue , as may plainly appeere in the person of Saul himselfe , of whom we entreate . For ( he in all perfection of nature ) excelled his brethren by much ; or any man else in that age . He being a goodly yoong man , and faire , so as among all the children of Israell , there was none more goodly then Saul : being also from the shoulders vpward much higher then any any in Israell . Thus then you see , there was no such redundancie of humors , nor no other such naturall defects in Sauls constitutiō , as might make him the more naturally disposed to the speedie apprehension of any those actuall afflictions which satan inflicted vpon him . And yet notwithstanding all this , the text , it telleth vs plainely , that the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul : and an euill spirit was sent from the Lord , to vexe him withall . Secondly , you doe no lesse fondly imagine againe , that , the diuell he is quite gone and departed : when he doth not apparantly and actually afflict the possessed . The vntruth of this idle conceite , we neede not discouer at all : it being more apparantly euident , then the Sunne-shine at mid-day . For , the diuell , eftsoones he slippeth aside according to sensuall appearance : when yet ( in deed and in truth ) he still continueth his actuall residence . Yea , this your idle conceit , as it fighteth directly with the faith of those Scriptures , which affirme an actuall afflicting but by times , and by turnes : so doth it cracke the whole credit of that your falslie supposed possession in the yoong man at Mahgnitton , who ( as your owne selfe confesseth , and many others can testifie ) was onely afflicted by fittes , and but at seuerall seasons . Thirdly , you do as fondly imagine , that the parties ( howsoeuer possessed of satan , ) they are neuer actually afflicted , vnlesse there be naturally in them before , a passiue disposition , for the timely apprehension of the intended actuall possession : which is euery way more false and vntrue , then any of your other conceits . Because , neither the actuall possession , nor the actuall affliction do necessarily proceed from any affection , or disposition in nature , or from any the absolute power of the diuell : but , from the onely prouident appointment , the powerfull permission , and predominant purpose of the onely omnipotent God. Who is ergon synergos , that is , a free , and effectuall worker : in the workes of all sorts of workers . Commonlie , and indifferently ( I confesse ) an author , in a more common , and more ample signification : howbeit , a fauourer only of good , and a director of all actions whatsoeuer , to the good of his children , and glorie of his name . As more plainly appeareth in the person of Iob : whom the diuell could no further afflict , then the Lord had appointed . By all that which is spoken , it is therefore verie apparant , that ( notwithstanding anie thing hitherto heard ) the actuall affliction of Saul it might something be lessened : though the actuall possession of satan ( if anie such there ) was still continued . Exorcistes . Well sir : I argue it further thus . If a melodious sound may effectually procure such an apt disposition in the minde of a man as may make it more able to receiue and recouer afresh , some supernaturall gift , being lost before : then may it much more procure such an apt disposition in the body of man , as may euen vtterly disable the same from the speedie apprehension of any such naturall affliction , as is naturally inflicted by satan . But , the first is vndoubtedly true , as appeereth in Elisha the man of God , who , onely by hearing a melodious harmonie , recouered foorthwith , the supernaturall gift of prophesie : and therefore also , the other ( in like manner ) is apparently euident . For , an actiue vertue , hauing an abilitie in that which is greater : it hath much more abilitie in that which is lesse . Yea , and this also verie fitly accordeth with the text it selfe , which telleth vs plainely : that when Dauid but handled his harpe , the euill spirit departed foorthwith from Saul . Physiologus . Howsoeuer your antecedent befitteth your humour , the same I assure you is vtterly vntrue . For first , the prophet Elisha , he had not vtterly lost the supernaturall gift of prophesie , as your selfe verie falslie and fondly imagine : howsoeuer , being somthing disquieted in minde ( by reason of the wicked kings presence ) he perceiued himselfe vnapt for the present , to any such spirituall enterprize . And , for that onely respect , he purposely required that some cunning musition ( by playing and singing before him ) might quiet his troubled minde , and quicken his dulled spirits : for his better enabling afresh , to that so sacred , and so blessed a busines . Againe , if the Prophet ( as you falslie affirme ) had euen vtterly lost ( indeed ) that selfesame supernaturall gift : then surely , the sensible sound of a melodious harmonie , had beene vtterly vnable of it selfe to recouer the same . Because , created vertue , ( such as that musicall harmonie was ) it could not effectually extend it selfe to the timely apprehension of any such supernaturall action , or habite , as prophesying is . Onely , it might be some meanes to reuiue , and to quicken the appaled spirits of the prophet Elisha , for the better preparing of him to that action : but , againe to recouer that supernaturall gift of prophesie ( being vtterly lost ) it had beene vtterly vnable . Notwithstanstanding all this , let vs admit your antecedent for currant , which will neuer be prooued so : yet , your consequent , or inference enforced from thence , is too too weakely confirmed by the rule you alledge . Telling vs incōsiderately , that any actiue vertue , hauing an abilitie in that which is greater : it hath an abilitie also in that which is lesse . This rule ( I assure you ) it concludes not your cause , no , it commeth short thereof by manie degrees : in as much as the same is not vniuersally true , but holdeth onely in things essentially subordinate in one and the selfe-same kinde , and not else . For , this is no good consequent : A man is able to beget a man : therefore , he is also able to beget an asse . Neither is there any sequell in this . A man is able to carrie a great stone : therefore , he is able also to carrie a great fire . Thus then , you may plainely perceiue by all the premisses , that , the actuall affliction in Saul , it might something be lessened : though yet , the actuall possession of satan , ( if any such there ) was still continued . And therefore , this the example of Saul ( who was eased a time , by Dauid his handling the harpe ) it concludeth no absolute dispossessing of spirits and diuels , by any created , sensible , or meere naturall meanes whatsoeuer . Exorcistes . Well sir ? how lightlie soeuer you esteeme of these matters , it is vndoubtedly true , that , my selfe dispossessed the yoongman at Mahgnitton : yea , and this , onely by meanes . Physiologus . By what meanes I beseech you ? Exorcistes . Euen , by the onely meanes of fasting and praier . Physiologus . But , whether was it done by your fasting alone , or by your praier alone : or , by your fasting and praier togither ? Exorcistes . Not by any meanes of either alone : but by a mutuall concurring of both , in that selfesame action . Physiologus . Put case you had attempted the worke by your praier alone : what then ? woulde your endeuour therein haue beene voide ? Exorcistes . Yea no doubt . For , by that extraordinary exercise of fasting , my praier it became the more forcible : and , my spirit was made the more powerfull in the timely performance of that admirable enterprise . Physiologus . So then , the whole efficacy of that selfesame action ( as your speech doth import ) it depended especially , and onely vpon the extraordinary exercize of your fasting alone : as vpon that which gaue a power to your praier , and which made your spirit the more apt to that enterprise . O absurd , and sencelesse opinion ? This sauoureth very shrewdly of the Montanists errour , who did attribute so much to their voluntary exercise of fasting and praier : as ( for that selfesame respect ) they inuented , their adusting , and drying vp diets , for the more forcible effecting of those ther fondly affected fooleries . And were therefore , very fitly termed , temperate & continent persons . So surely , your selfe at this present , in this your pretended dispossession of spirits and Diuels , you make your extraordinarie exercise of fasting , the onely efficient cause of that selfesame supposed dispossession of the diuell at Mahgnitton . For first you dispossest him forsooth , by the onely meanes of fasting and prayer . But , your prayer ( you say ) it became the more forcible , and your spirit was made the more apt , by the extraordinarie exercise of your fasting it selfe : therefore , the extraordinarie exercise of your said fasting it selfe , was the onely efficient cause of that selfesame supposed action . For , whatsoeuer doth make another thing to be such as it is : that same thing no doubt , is much more so it owne selfe . But , your extraordinarie exercise of fasting , it made your prayer more powerfull , and your spirit more apt for that selfesame dispossessing of Satan : therefore , your said extraordinarie exercise of fasting , it was the onely efficient cause of that selfesame dispossessing of Satan . This , not onely mannageth much , the Montanists errors ( as was shewed before ) but ( which more is ) it doth verie shrewdly support the superstitious and Popish opinions of fasting . Who , not onely repose to much spiced holines in the voluntarie vsage thereof : but , make it withall , verie satisfactorie for sinne , and propitiatorie , for the silly poore soules departed to purgatorie . Whereas , the same is onely a meere humane exercise : not hauing in it owne selfe , any sanctitie , or holines at all . Besides all this : that which you say is too to absurd . For , if the onely exercise of fasting , be made an effectuall meanes for dispossessing the diuell : then may the same ( in like manner ) be made also , an effectuall meanes , for the effectuall suppressing of all those actuall sinnes whatsoeuer , which the diuell suggests into men . Because , an actiue vértue , which hath an abilitie in that which is greater , it hath an abilitie also in that which is lesse : that lesse especially , being essentially subordinate in one and the selfesame kinde , as are the actuall sinnes ( suggested by Satan ) to Satan himselfe . And so by consequence , any other creature else ( onely but abstayning a time as you did , from meates and drinkes ) it may also be made an effectuall meanes to dispossesse the diuell himselfe , and withall , to suppresse his diuellish suggestions . Exorcistes . Nay sir , I make not my exercise of fasting , the efficient cause of that selfesame admirable action : but , an assistent rather , in the fruitfull performance of that forcible prayer , which forced the diuell to depart . Not , that my said prayer had beene vnfruitfull , without some such speciall assistance of fasting ioyned therewith : but for that ( the flesh being thereby tamed the better ) my spirit more feruently performed that selfesame prayer , which then , and there , dispossessed the diuell . Physiologus . Why were you then so fond to affirme at the first , that ( without the ioynt exercise of fasting and prayer together ) your prayer it selfe had beene vtterly frustrate , concerning especiallie that speciall action . Well then ; let vs proceed . It was not your exxercise of fasting then ; but , your forcible prayer that forced the diuell to depart . But tell me I pray you , do you not esteeme of that selfesame actuall possession , as of an extraordinarie , and a meere supernaturall matter ? Exorcistes . Yes sir , I dare flatly affirme that the same was entirely and wholie , a meere supernaturall matter . For had the same beene anie way naturall , it should then haue proceeded from some such naturall causes , or wantes in the partie himselfe : as might haue beene otherwaies cured by physicall helpes , and meere naturall meanes . Whereas this the actuall possession in the yoongman there , it had ( as Physicions affirme ) somewhat Diuine , or supernaturall , the same also incurable by any humane or ordinarie skill : and , which could not otherwaies be possiblie cured , but , by the onely ordinarie meanes of fasting and praier . Physiologus . I like well your plainenes . But , tell me yet farther I praie you , whether your said action of fasting and praier , for that dispossessing of Satan : was any other thing else , but a created or meere naturall action ? Exorcistes . Nay surely sir , that selfesame action ( as it proceeded from me , and was simplie performed by me ) it was no other thing else but a meere naturall action . For , how coulde I possiblie practise any vncreated , or supernaturall action : being my selfe but a created or meere naturall agent ? Physiologus . Yea , but the effect which folowed of that your saide naturall action , I meane , that extraordinarie dispossession of satan , it was vndoubtedly ( if any at all ) a supernaturall effect : and so , you absurdly conclude , that , an onely created , or meere naturall cause , it may eftsoones ●ffect some supernaturall actions . Exorcistes . Do make of the matter what pleaseth your selfe , very certaine I am , that my prayer alone did effectually driue foorth the diuell . Physiologus . Well , be it supposed your verie prayer alone , did effectually driue foorth the diuell , as you verie fondly imagine : wherein ( I beseech you ) consisted the efficacie , & force of your prayer ? Whether in sound , or in voice , or in wordes ? If onely in sound , why might not then a tabret , or drume , haue also effected , that selfesame admirable action : seeing , as shrill , and as forcible a sound might haue proceeded from them , as could possiblie proceed from your selfe ? Againe , if onely in voice , why might not a lyon , a bull , or a beare haue effected the enterprize : sith they had beene able , more terriblie to haue roared , bellowed , or brayed foorth their voices abroad , then you your own selfe ? Briefly , if neither in sound nor in voice , but onely in words , why might not then , some pratling Parrat haue driuen foorth that diuell : sith shee also might well haue beene taught to prattle foorth words , if onely bare wordes would haue borne out the busines ? But perhaps you would haue vs imagine , that , the efficacie of your prayer did onely consist in the wordes of a man : then must we withal , be thus much perswaded at least , namely , that the verie bare wordes of a mortall man , albeit they vanish in the aire as they are vttered foorth : yet haue they in themselues , such a secret force as is able to driue foorth a diuell : Oh , heere is ●oughtie good stuffe ; if the world were once quicke . Exorcistes . You are highly to blame in blazing abroad as you doe , such sharpe Satyricall quippes , and gyrding taunts , against my admirable action , wrought at Mahgnitton . For ( by disgracing that woonderfull worke of the Lord ) the holie exercise of fasting and praier , is shamefully scorned , and brought into publike disgrace . Physiologus . I neither disgrace the holy actions of God , nor scorne at any his sacred ordinances : no , I more truely esteeme , and more sincerely reuerence the holy exercise of fasting & praier , then you do your selfe by much . For , whereas I onely approoue of the power and practise thereof according to truth : your selfe ( by prophaning the same in such falsly supposed actions ) do make the holie exercise of fasting and praier to be shamefully scorned of atheistes , derided of papists , yea , and very shrewdly to be suspected with weakelings . So that , you your owne selfe ( by these your disordered dealings ) do rather bring that holy ordinance of God , into publique disgrace . Exorcistes . Do I bring praier and fasting into publique disgrace ; when I vse them onely in driuing foorth diuels ? Physiologus . Why man , you confesse them but meere naturall actions , as they were performed by your selfe : and , you haue heard it sufficiently prooued before , that , no created or meere naturall power , may possibly extend it selfe to any such supernaturall actions , as is the extraordinary expelling of spirits and diuels . And therefore ( by abusing the holy exercise of praier and fasting about such fasly supposed possessions of diuels ) what do you therein ( in effect ) but bring them directly into publique disgrace ; as I told you before . Exorcistes . What you told me before it makes no matter : I , both know what I did , and what was my purpose in dooing the same . Physiologus . In deed , it should seeme you propounded to your selfe some speciall purpose , flat opposite to the holy ordinance of God : and thereupon hath followed so bad an effect . Exorcistes . Why sir , hath not the Lord established praier and fasting , as an ordinary perpetuall meanes for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels ? By vsing the same therefore ( as I did ) in that admirable action : I walked therein according to the holy ordinance of God. Orthodoxus . I may by no meanes , any longer endure your palpable vntruthes : or rather most blasphemous speeches . For , where hath the Lord established praier and fasting as an extraordinary perpetuall meanes , for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels ? Exorcistes . Euen in the seauenteene of Mathew , and ninth of Marke ; where he telleth vs plainely , that this kind goeth not foorth , or can by no other meanes else be cast out , but by praier and fasting . Orthodoxus . What conclude you from thence ? Exorcistes . This I conclude , and very confidently hold : namely , that ( one beeing possessed ) praier and fasting is to be vsed for the casting out of satan : as a meanes appointed of God to that speciall end . Orthodoxus . Do you hold that in good earnest ? Exorcistes . Yea , in very good earnest . And , this I doubt not , but I am able to prooue by the holy scriptures ; and further to confirme the same , by the testimony , of ancient , and late writers , by the practise also of the primitiue church in all ages , and the good successe thereof . Orthodoxus . Then will I be bound , for one twelue moneths space , to keepe your kine for nothing . Howbeit , because this point will craue a long discourse ▪ and I feele my selfe somewhat weary with sitting ; let vs , go walke a turne or two in my parlour . And hauing reuiued our spirits by the singing of psalmes : returne againe to our purpose . Physiologus . I for my owne part , like well of your motion . Lycanthropus . The same I dare say for all the rest . Orthodoxus . Arise then , and let vs depart . The end of the eight Dialogue . The ninth Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . Whether Praier and fasting , be established by Christ , as a perpetuall ordinarie meanes , for the powerfull expelling of diuels ? Whether the power therein , be a vocal , or a personall power ? Or , whether a true iustifying faith ( apprehending some supernaturall power of God ) doth effect that worke ? The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOMACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Orthodoxus . BLessed be the name of our God for these sweete recreations : oh , how they comfort the soule , and refresh the bodie . Surely , our crazie bodies , they would soone be infeebled , were they not daily supported by such sanctified props : yea , and our soules also , they would languish euerie hower , were they not eftsoones comforted by such gracious refreshings from God. Physiologus . It is vndoubtedly so as you saie : and therefore , how highly are we bound to extoll his mercifull kindnes ? Orthodoxus . Verie true . But come Exorcistes , let vs loose no time . Hath Christ established prayer and fasting , for the perpetuall expelling of spirits and diuels ? Exorcistes . There is no doubt at all to be made of that matter . Orthodoxus . I am doubtfull thereof I assure you : neither will you be able ( I feare ) to cleere me of that doubt , so long as I haue breath in my bodie . For , this I must tell you for certeine , that if praier and fasting be perpetually appointed by Christ , for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels : then must we necessarilie esteeme thereof , as of an holy established ordinance , for that selfesame purpose . Exorcistes . Yea , no doubt , it is an holie established ordinance , for that verie same purpose . Orthodoxus . If it be an holie ordinance , perpetually establisht by Christ , as you beare vs in hand : then hath it also an apparant commandement appertaining vnto it , for the authenticall approbation of such a perpetuall establishment : & , it hath also some certeine Canons and rules , concerning out orderly directions therein . But , no such commandement or canon is any where extant in all the Scriptures : therefore , praier and fasting is no perpetuall ordinance establisht by Christ , to any such speciall purpose . Exorcistes . I vnderstand not your argument ; it is so obseurely , and so intricately propounded vnto vs. Orthodoxus . It is apparant enough , if you were not wilfully blinde : howbeit , I will repeate , and propound it more cleerely thus . If praier and fasting be such an established ordinance , then that establishment is apparantly exprest in the Scriptures : but the latter is false : therefore also the first . Exorcistes . Why sir ? hath not our Sauiour himselfe put downe an expresse commandement , for the perpetuall establishment of such an ordinance : where he telleth vs plainely , that this kind goeth not foorth but by prayer and fasting ? What may be more cleere then this ? Orthodoxus . Do you call this a cleere commandement , for the perpetuall establishment of such an ordinance ? Exorcistes . What may be more cleere ? Orthodoxus . You do herein , too to fondly bewray your grosse ignorance : and make cleere to the world , your want of iudgement , concerning the purpose of Christ in that place . Which was onely to make knowne the accidentall impediment , in that selfe-same action : and , not to put downe any essentiall commandement concerning the supposed perpetuitie of any such sacred ordinance , as your selfe do imagine . For , what manner of argument is this that you make ? This kind goeth not foorth but by praier and fasting : therefore , from hencefoorth ( saith Christ ) I do solemnly establish prayer and fasting , as a perpetuall ordidinance , for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels for euer . This foloweth faire and farre of from the purpose you aime at . Againe , if the holy ghost in that place , had either expresly , or implicatiuely entended to put downe a commaundement for the perpetuall establishment of any such falsly supposed ordinance : then surely , it is not to be doubted at all , but that ( in a matter especially of such sacred importance ) he would neuer haue left vs at randome , to deale therein as seemed good to our selues , but ( in some other place else at the least ) he would haue inserted such certeine canons and rules as should more fuly haue serued for our orderly direction and guidance therein . Howbeit , neither in the epistle to the Romanes or Corinthians , neither yet , in any of those to Timothy or Titus ( where all church offices and officers are handled at lage ) doth he giue any one rule at all , concerning the orderly practise of this your falsly supposed perpetuall ordinance : and therefore , the same is no such ordinance established by Christ. Besides that , the apostle Peter , hauing purposely laid open the perpetuall vagaries of satan to kill and deuour , he maketh no mention at all of praier and fasting , but onely of a strong faith to resist him withall . As also , the apostle Paul displaying purposely the compleate armour of christians against the power of the diuel whatsoeuer : he speakes not a word of praier and fasting , for the timely withstanding of any his fiery darts . So then , sith ( in all the canonicall scriptures ) there is neither commaundement nor canon for the timely fortification of any such new-found ordinance : I wonder you blush not , to braue out the matter ( as hitherto you haue done ) by pretending the authority of scriptures , the testimony of fathers old and new , the practise of the church in euery age , yea , and the good successe thereof , to mannage the matter it selfe . Exorcistes . I could prooue the same , in such sort as I say . You could so I confesse ; if you had wherewith all to doe it : but , this lingring delay in dooing the work , doth notably declare you a non proficient , or make your penury that way to apparant at least . For , it is full two yeeres , since that your thras●nicall vaunt was vented foorth : whereas hetherto you haue not set any one of those your brauing huge barrels abroach , to giue vs so much as a tast of your further stoare . And therefore , it cannot possibly be , but that , either you are drawen dry of your proofes before you begin the banket : or that they doe at the least haerere in calamo , cleaue so close to your pen , as all the power you haue , is vtterly vnable to procure their publike passage . Well sir , whatsoeuer be the want , we will ( in speciall fauour ) attend with patience , your more conuenient leysure , for the expected performance of that your bumbasted and brauing abilitie , concerning the irrefragable confirmation of this your imagined ordinance . In the meane time we thinke it good to giue you an inckling of some one or two of the later writers , whose iudgements are opposite to that which you tell vs. First , Caluin vpon those selfesame scriptures , he telleth vs thus . Whereas Christ imputeth their not preuailing against that diuell , to some want of faith in his owne disciples : he teacheth vs plainely , to ascribe the whole efficacie of euerie such miraculous action , to the power of faith , and not to our prayer and fasting . Shewing vs therein , how ridiculously the Papists haue constituted their actuall fasting alone , as an effectuall counterpoyson for the powerfull expelling of Spirits and Diuels . Thus far Caluin . In like manner , Bullinger vpon the selfesame place , he writeth thus . These words they are anagogecally , or ascendingly transferred from that inferiour , to a superior consideration , or , from that one perticular , to an vniuersalitie , thus . The Lord ( you see ) he hath deliuered this one Demoniak , or he hath expelled this one diuell : doubt you not therefore of his further power , for the timely subduing of the whole kingdome of Satan . He saith not thus , the Lord by his immediate power hath driuen out this one diuel from the child : and therefore , all spirits and diuels , shall from hencefoorth , be immediately expelled by prayer and fasting , thereby prescribing a perpetual Canon to Exorcists : no , he entended not any such matter at all . For , this kinde ( saith Christ ) it goeth not foorth but by prayer and fasting . Therein , verie couertly deducing his speech from that one particular president , to all manner of arts , impurities , and tentations of Satan whatsoeuer : and not to a perpetuall establishment of any such falsly supposed ordinance , for the powerfull expelling of spirits , by prayer and fasting , as your selfe doth falsely and fondly imagine . Exorcistes . Well , yet for all this , our Sauiour Christ doth vndoubtedly insinuate some secret force to fasting and praier , for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels , euen in those selfesame words expressed before : otherwise , he would neuer haue so precisely put them downe in that place . And therefore , the Church from age to age , in their seuerall Exorcismes , and we also at Mahgnitton , haue delt according to the sacred Scriptures ; in practising praier and fasting for the expelling of diuels : because ( besides that worke of faith , which Caluin and Bullinger noteth ) these also ( in that place ) are iointly required by Christ. Orthodoxus . Is this a good argument ? Christ ( by occasion ) doth mention fasting and praier in that place : therefore , he establisheth exorcizings by praier and fasting , as a perpetuall ordinance for the Church to obserue . This Iesuiticall iest was fitly and fullie answered by an excellent Doctor thus . The popish church ( and you also your selues ) haue to grosly abused the ignorant people , in making them beleeue you can cast foorth diuels : whereas you haue no such power at all . Neither can you by all your praiers and fastings , coniure out one vncleane spirit from a man : vnlesse you haue first ( like sorcerers and witches ) coniured them in . Exorcistes . Let it be a Iesuiticall iest , or whatsoeuer you please , I make no doubt , but that praier and fasting is an ordinance perpetually establisht by Christ : for the powerfull expelling of diuels . Orthodoxus . Be it euen so as you saie . But , do tell me withall I pray you , whether our Sauiour Christ hath establisht the same as an ordinance generally for all to vndergoe : or , whether he hath onely imposed the dispatch thereof , vpon some certeine speciall persons ? Exorcistes . I hold it an ordinance belonging indifferently to all , both men and women . Yea , and I am fully perswaded that the faithfull praiers of the partie and his friends , might well haue preuailed with God in this case , though no one preacher at all had beene present : as in the dispossession of Thomas Darling was verie apparant . Orthodoxus . If praier and fasting ( for the powerfull expelling of diuels ) be an ordinance belonging to all ( as you say ) then , the vndergoing thereof , is also a dutie appertaining to all : and so , the partie at Mahgnitton , as also his parents they failed greatly in doing their dutie that way . Exorcistes . I make no question of that . Orthodoxus . Verie well . But , what warrant had you to vndertake the timely discharge of other mens duties , in a matter especially of such weightie importance , and so neerely cōcerning themselues ? you are not of this minde I hope , namely , that it is sufficient for men to discharge their duties , either by themselues , or by others ? Neither yet that your selfe is a second Atlas , appointed by God to vndergoe the whole waight of euerie mans dutie : or that you are able to accomplish at full , any such supposed workes of supererogation , as may fullie suffice for the timely dispatch of your owne , and other mens duties ? Exorcistes . No surely , I am free from either of both the opinions . Orthodoxus . How then comes it to passe , that your selfe durst so boldly aduenture vpon the discharge of that dutie , which ( as you affirme ) did properly appertaine to the partie himselfe , and his parents togither : or , why did you not rather aduise and exhort them , to the timely dispatch of the selfesame dutie , which ( you say ) appertained in dutie vnto them ? Is not this the practise of a Polypragmaticall mate : yea , and to become a busie bodie in other mens matters ? Exorcistes . Nay sir , your collections they are ouer strict , and , your censures to sharpe concerning my former speeches . For , albeit , I did , and doe flatly affirme , that praier and fasting ( for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels ) is ( in deede ) a generall duty belonging to all the church : yet , I doubt not , but , that the same notwithstanding , doth more specially apperteine to preachers , and pastours . For , euen as all men are generally bound to pray vnto God for their forgiuenesse of sinnes , and yet , that generall duety , it doth not exclude the ministers or preachers from praying publiquely , for the remission of sinnes in all : so surely , albeit that praier and fasting ( for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels ) be a generall duety enioined generally to all the whole church , yet , that generall duety , it doth not hinder at all , but that the ministers also , they may and must more specially vndergoe such a duety for others , so oft as they perceiue those others to carelesse in discharging that duety themselues . Orthodoxus . Very true . But ministers , whensoeuer they put vp their publique praiers to God for such publique remission of sinnes , they do not that work , by reason of the onely generall duety , which generally belongeth to euery christian : but rather , in regard of their peculiar calling , and by vertue of a ministeriall function , more especially imposed vpon them , beeing therein appointed by God , the publique mouth of that publique assembly . And therefore , doe tel me directly , whether you enterprised that action , onely as a common christian : or rather , as a publique minister appointed of God ? Exorcistes . I vndertooke the whole work ( I confesse ) as a publique minister of God. For , I both praied , and preached publiquely : yea , and that also , before such a publique auditory , as ( by my speciall , and onely directions ) was foreappointed , prepared , and purposely assembled together , in a publique participation of that selfesame intended action . Orthodoxus . Be it euen so . But , tel me in what sort you effected the work : whether , as an ordinary ; or extraordinary minister ? Exorcistes . Euen onely as an ordinary minister of Iesus Christ. Orthodoxus . Why sir ? were you called , and fully established an ordinary minister at Mahgnitton : or euer you vndertooke that enterprise ? Exorcistes . No sir , I had there no ministeriall calling in any respect . Orthodoxus . Then ( by your owne confession ) you could be no ordinary minister at Mahgnitton , if any at all . And therefore , how durst you so boldly aduenture , to thrust your sickle into another mans haruest ? My meaning is this . How could you so desperately vndertake such an extraordinary work in another mans charge , you beeing not so much as an ordinary minister , nor hauing obtained before , some ordinary allowance thereunto at the least ? Is this the approoued practise of that wel-ordered discipline , whereof your selfe , and some others so highly esteeme ? Or , must we ( in any case ) account that a wel-ordered ecclesiasticall gouernement , which mannageth such an vnwarrantable foisting in of monstrous disorders into the church of Christ ? And , which more is , doth set open a doore to such shamefull confusion , and dareth priuiledge any ( how irregular soeuer ) after such peremptorie and popelike manner to intrude himselfe into another mans ordinary charge : without some ordinary allowance at least , to any so waightie a worke ? For , be it supposed , that ( by reason of the partie , and his parents long negligence ) the timely dispatch of that selfesame busines , did craue some publike assistance , and must therefore , be foorthwith transferred to the minister his publike calling : how comes it to passe , that their owne Minister himselfe ( whom such a worke more especially concerned ) did not ( in all duetie ) vndertake the whole conuay of that busines ? Or , if your selfe , and some others had espied him to slothfull therein , why did you not ( by some consistoriall proceeding ) conuent him before you , conuince his said slackenesse ; aduise and direct him in the orderly dispatch of that matter : rather , then thus disorderedly to rush headlong vpon it your selfe ? Yea , and ( which more is ) how could you ( in conscience ) assure your selfe of any other then the seauen sonnes of Sceuahs successe : hauing neither calling , nor word , nor warrant , nor example , nor authentical allowance thereto ? Exorcistes . In deed sir , I earnestly exhorted the Minister there , to vndertake the action himselfe , for that it belonged more especiallie vnto him : howbeit , the man , he was mightilie afraid to aduenture vpon it , because he was vtterly vnexperienced in such kinde of matters . Orthodoxus . Would you beare vs in hand , that , so reuerend a man would take vpon him a Ministeriall function , being verie able , but mightily afraid , to aduenture vpon the dutiful discharge thereof , in a matter especially , of such waightie importance ? Or , must we imagine ( for sauing your credit ) that the preacher at Mahgnition ( a man of thirtie yeeres standing there at the least ) should be vtterly vnexperienced in the orderly performance of praier and fasting ? Besides all this , if praier and fasting ( by whomsoeuer performed ) is ( as you say ) an vndoubted true meanes appointed of God , for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels : howe comes it to passe that master Haies , master Ebins and others ( performing that meanes ) could not possiblie effect the cure , they being Ministers as much , or more then your selfe . Moreouer , sith master Aldredg the Minister there , might ( with better assurance ) expect from the Lord a blessing vpon those his owne labours , then your selfe by much : howe is it ( I praie you ) that he was vnable to driue out the diuell , he practising also the selfe same meanes at sundrie times . Againe , what hindred the driuing out of that diuell the night before : when your owne selfe ( with some others ) so solemnely performed the appointed meanes ? Yea , and ( which more is ) what might be the cause ( I beseech you ) that master Coldwicke , a preacher also in that selfe-same action when the diuell was expelled , who praied , and preached ( in his course ) before your selfe : could not yet haue the happe ( with all the cunning he had ) to coniure or cast out that perilous diuell ? If praier and fasting be able to doe it , by whomsoeuer effected : I woonder ( I assure you ) that so manie good men ( notwithstanding they praied and fasted at sundrie times ) should neuer haue the good happe to hit on the matter , and that it must light so iust in your lot , to strike the Popiniay dead , and to do it your selfe ? Exorcistes . Why shoulde you woonder at all : sith the verie hower it selfe ( wherein the Lord would glorifie his worde , and his worke ) was neuer till then ? Orthodoxus . What man ? was praier and fasting by whomsoeuer performed , the onely powerfull meanes appointed of God , for the powerfull expelling of diuels a little before : and is the same effectuall now , but by times , and by turnes ? Put case you your selfe had beene the first preacher in that disordered action : had then your said labours ( how powerfull and holy soeuer ) beene bestowed in vaine ? Or , put case the first preacher had taken your turne , and your text , had counterfeited your voice , and stoode in such a place as the partie possessed could neither haue discouered his person , nor descried his speech : what then I beseech you ? would that preacher his handling those signes of possession and dispossession which you handled your selfe , haue constrained the possessed perforce , to act euerie thing handled , with such an apt correspondence , as he did , when your selfe deliuered those mysticall matters ? Yea and ( which more is ) when that preacher ( being once come to the signes of dispossession ) should haue charged the diuell to come out of the childe : would the partie possessed , so fitlie , and so iustly haue vomited therewith , as he did when your selfe entreated thereof ? Exorcistes . In verie deed sir , this I must freely confesse with Augustine that ( howsoeuer the Lord hath appointed praier and fasting , an onely effectuall meanes for the powerfull expelling of diuels ) he , notwithstanding all this , doth make a speciall choice of persons , of places and times , for the more orderly effecting of euerie such admirable enterprise . Orthodoxus . Your answeres ( without doubt ) are suddenly fallen to such deadly debate among themselues , as , the one is readie to pull out the throate of the other : by reason of some bad disposition , or present defect in your memorie . For praier & fasting ( ere while ) was the only appointed meanes to expel the power of the diuel : and now , the efficacie thereof , is restrained to places & times . It was not long since , a publike ordinance appointed generallie for all men : and now , it is imposed vpon some speciall persons . Not long since , it might well be effected by the partie himselfe and his parents : but now the powerfull dispatch thereof , is peculiar onely to preachers and pastours . Not long since , it was an ordinarie power , incident to any godly Minister or others : but , no Minister now ( how godlie soeuer ) hath the good hap to hit on that matter , saue onely your selfe . Thus then you see , that , as the disease : so also the cure , it doth ebbe and flowe with the Moone . Howbeit , these doubtfull vncerteinties , doe sauour verie shrewdly of some legerdemaine , at the least . And , howsoeuer your selfe ( auouching that God maketh speciall choise of persons , of places and times ) woulde cunningly shelter your cause vnder Augustines credite : verie certeine I am , that the same is onely a Iesuiticall iuggling deuise , and therefore , it deserueth the selfesame answere with theirs . For , be it that the Lord , ( as Augustine saith ) doth make a speciall choice of persons , of places and times , for the orderly effecting of euery such admirable action : this prooueth not , that the power of working myracles continueth still to this present . Onely it sheweth , that , whensoeuer the Lord worketh any woonderfull worke : he is free to make choise of persons , of places and times , as seemeth best to his wisedome . And therefore ( admitting all this for a truth ) do tell me withall , by what meanes you are certeine that the Lord made speciall choise of your selfe , for such speciall busines ? Exorcistes . Why sir ? the verie effect it selfe , doth fully declare the truth of the matter : for , I cast foorth the diuell . Orthodoxus . Be it , that some such effect as your selfe surmizeth did forthwith succeed your saide enterprize : yet , forsomuch as your selfe did no more in the matter , then was ordinarily incident ( you say ) to any godly preacher or others : how comes it to passe , that those other ( performing the very selfesame things you performed your selfe ) no such admirable effect should follow their labors ? Was it , for that the rest of the Ministers were all , but vngodly wretches , in comparison of you ? Or , was it so rather , for that ( those Ministers fearing the Lord aright ) the Lord would not suffer their innocent soules to be falsly seduced by any such sleights : or , for that you your selfe ( being at that time more destitude of grace ) had ( for the present ) some power to effect such a false deceiueable signe ; to your greater condemnation , without speedie repentance ? Exorcistes . Howsoeuer I may not impure a lesse measure of godlinesse to others , neither yet arrogate any more to my selfe , then to any of the rest : verie certeine it is , that , onely my selfe had then the speciall power to expell the diuell . Physiologus . Master Orthodoxus let me argue this point . Come on Exorcistes . If your owne selfe ( as you say ) had then a more speciall power to expell the diuell by prayer and fasting , then any of the rest : that your said power , it must needs be a vocall , or personall power at the least . My meaning is , that such a speciall power , it proceeded either from your prayer ; or your person , but not from your prayer at all : for , the others also , they prayed and fasted as deuoutly as you did your selfe , albeit in vaine : and therefore , your prayer ( of it selfe ) it could haue no more power then theirs , vnlesse hapily you haue some speciall prayer , for that speciall purpose , beyond the rest of your brethren . Yea , and when all comes to all , it was not your prayer : but your preaching ( it should seeme ) that expelled the diuell . Againe , if such a speciall power proceeded from your person alone : then surely , that selfe same personall power , it was either some naturall , or , supernaturall power at the least . Howbeit , a meere naturall power it might not possibly be : because , no created , or meere naturall power , may possibly extend foorth it selfe to any such supernaturall action , as hath been sufficiently shewed before . Exorcistes . That followeth not . For , the body of Christ , it was vndoubtedly a created or true naturall body , and yet notwithstanding , there went vertue or power from out of the same , for the admirable curing of people . And therefore ( if it so seemed good to the Lord for the glory of his name ) why might not some power ( in like manner ) proceed from my person : for the timely expelling of that spirit or diuel ? Physiologus . Besides your shamelesse pride in matching your body with the body of Christ : you do monstrously mistake the very point of your purpose . For , do you imagine , that , there went any power essentially , from out of the body of Christ , for the admirable curing of any ? Exorcistes . I make no question thereof . And , the scripture , it telleth vs plainly , that , the whole multitude thronged to touch him : for , there proceeded vertue out of him , and healed them all . Physiologus . Though it be said in the text , that , vertue proceeded out of Christ , to the curing of many : yet , that must not be vnderstood , as though any vertue ( essentially existing in the naturall body of Christ ) did passe foorth essentially from him vnto others , in that selfesame absolute number : no , but this proceeding of vertue from the bodie of Christ vnto others , is so farre foorth to be accounted a going foorth , as the effect may be said to proceed from the cause . Or it is to be interpreted according to the maner of a cause , producing an effect . The which are said to go foorth the one from the other : in as much as the verie cause it selfe doth apparantly shine foorth in that selfesame effect which it worketh . And , euen after such a manner , we must vnderstand this matter in question . Because , the Diuine vertue it selfe ( essentially existing in the person of Christ ) did effectually procure present health to the parties oppressed . Otherwaies , how must that text be vnderstood which telleth vs , that the wisedome of God ( being but one & the same ) can do all things it selfe : that it renueth all , and entreth eueh into the holie soules , making them the friends and prophets of God. Now sir , because it is said he entreth into the holie soules ; must we therefore imagine , the holie spiri● of God to be any where now , where it was not before ? not so ; for the same of necessitie ( at all times and seasons ) is euerie where present . Howbeit , because the holie spirit of God doth then more especially procure an apparant effect of spirituall graces to shinefoorth in some soule where they shone not before : therefore the spirit of God , may then be said truely to enter into such a soule , because the efficacie thereof doth more effectuallie , and more apparently breake foorth to the view of our eies . And euen after this selfesame sort ( I assure you ) we are to vnderstand ( in this place ) the vertue going foorth from our Sauiour Christ , to the curing of others : because the Diuine vertue it selfe ( perpetually existing in the person of Christ ) at that verie same instant , did more effectually cause health in those the diseased parties . So then , howsoeuer this place may serue verie fitly , to shew foorth the efficacie of Christ his vertue in curing diseases : it helpeth nothing at all to vnderprop your pestilent opinion , of a vertue or power essentially proceeding from your owne , or anie mans person , for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels . Exorcistes . But , tell me I beseech you , was that miraculous curing of people by those selfesame touchings of Christ , a worke of his Diuinitie onely : or of his humanitie also ? Physiologus . This I must shew you for certeine , that Leo himselfe , verie flatlie affirmeth all the miraculous actions effected by Christ : to be effectually wrought by his Diuinitie onely . For , seeing ( saith Leo ) there are vndoubtedly in the person of Christ two distinct , or essentiall natures : the one Diuine , which shineth foorth by extraordinarie miraculous actions , and the other humane , which doth solely vndergoe all offered iniuries . It foloweth necessarily , that , looke how the humane nature applieth it selfe to the vndergoing of iniuries : euen so , the diuine nature disposeth it selfe to the effecting of myracles . But , the humane nature alone applieth it selfe to the vndergoing of iniuries , because , to suffer at all , is a thing vtterly opposite to the nature of the Deitie : therefore , the Diuine nature alone , it likewise disposeth it selfe to the admirable effecting of miracles , because , the effecting of such , surmounteth the compasse of Christ his created humanitie , according to that of Dauid , Ichouah alone doth wondrous things . Againe , the miraculous actions they do highlie exceed the whole power of any created nature . But , the humanitie of Christ , it is onely a created nature : therefore , the humanitie of Christ ( of it selfe ) can effect no miraculous actions . Lycanthropus . This I suppose , is vndoubtedly true , and without contradiction at all . Physiologus . It is so I confesse , being warely and wi●ely vnderstood : else there may lie some exceptions against it . For , the comparison it holdes verie fitlie in this one respect . Namely , that as the humanitie of Christ alone , was a reason or cause of his vndergoing the offred iniuries : so surely , the Diuinitie of Christ alone , it was also the reason , or primarie efficient cause of his effecting the miraculous actions . Howbeit that selfesame comparison , it holdeth not so currantly in a second respect . For , howsoeuer it is no waies repugnant vnto the humanitie of Christ , to be also an effector of miracles instrumentally : yet is it quite contrarie vnto the Diuinitie of Christ to suffer afflictions in any respect . I meane , either principally or instrumentally : because , the diuinitie it selfe , is wholy impassible . Although yet I dare not denie , but that ( in an onely especiall regard of the supposed identitie , or communicable proprieties of both natures in the one person of Christ ) that which is truely said of the one , may be as true said of the other . For first ( respecting the whole person of Christ ) it is not vntruely said , that the Godhead did suffer : againe ( respecting the whole person of Christ ) it may as truely be said , that this childe ( meaning Christ ) created the heauens . Because , Christ himselfe is that eternall word of the father , whereby all things ( in the beginning ) were created and made . And therefore , that sentence of Dauid ; who saith that Iehouah alone doth wondrous things : it is not so to be taken , as happily you would haue vs imagine . For , the word ( alone ) in that place , it excludes not the humanitie of Christ as any instrumentall : but onely as a meere principall agent in working woondrous things . Exorcistes . But sir ( notwithstanding this your cunning distinction ) it is verie apparant , that , euen the humanitie of Christ alone ( as a principall agent it selfe ) did worke sundrie miraculous cures , in sundrie diseased persons : for , so many as but touched his bodie , yea , or the hemme of his garment , they were presently healed . Now then , if those selfesame touchings of Christ , did not effectually worke in those the aforesaid cures ; it must necessarily follow , that Christ did something in vaine . But Christ , he did nothing in vaine : therefore , euen those the aforesaid touchings themselues , did effectually worke in those the forenamed cures . Howbeit , those sensible touchings , they were onely meere actions of Christ his humanitie : therefore , Christ his onely humanitie , did principally and effectually worke in all those the forenamed cures which succeeded those sensible touchings . Physiologus . Christ , he healed so many , as handled him spiritually by the apprehension of faith : not all such as onely but touched him corporally by corporall sense . Otherwise , if onely a sensible touching of Christ or his garments , had principally and effectually beene able of it selfe alone , to worke those selfesame cures : then , Iudas that kissed him : the souldiers that stripped him : the high priests seruants that smote him : yea , and the rest of the people that thronged and pressed vpon him : had beene euerie of them also effectually amended of all their maladies . Howbeit ( saith Beda ) onely , those men alone , doe truely and effectually handle our Sauiour Christ : who spiritually receiue his faith , and his loue in their harts . So then , for a more plaine vnderstanding of our matters in question , it shall not be amisse , to proceed more exactly vnto a more orderly consideration of all miraculous actions : and this also , in a double respect . Namely , either principally : or instrumentally . First , if we take due consideration of the working of miracles principallie , I meane according to their primarie , or proper efficient : then are we bound ( without contradiction ) to beleeue , and confesse , that all miraculous and supernaturall actions , do highly surmount the whole power of euerie creature whatsoeuer , and are onely peculiar to Iehouah himselfe , who alone doth woondrous things . Yea , this is vndoubtedly true , that , no one supernaturall action ( how simple soeuer in shew ) may possiblie be effected by any other power principally : but , by the onely supereminent power of El-shaddai alone , I meane , that al-sufficient , omnipotent , and almightie Iehouah himselfe . Who is an vnmeasurable mountaine of goodnes : the onely true cherishing dug that is neuer drawne drie : yea , and who only accomplisheth whatsoeuer he wils in heauen and in earth : at what time , in what place , and after what maner best pleaseth himselfe . Howbeit , if we respect the working of miraculous actions but instrumentally , I meane , onely according to their secondary or instrumentall cause : then must we ( in like maner ) beleeue and confesse , that euen Christ also ( respecting onely his humanitie ) and many other of the saints besides ( in the powerfull effecting of many miraculous actions ) did ministerially , or instrumentally accomplish the same . Neither yet , doe I account the humanitie of Christ , and other the saints of God , as instruments equally alike in the working of miracles : but , distinguish them also according to their differing degrees . For , howsoeuer ( distinguishing only the primary & instrumental efficients ) I did sort thē in one and the selfesame ranke : yet I acknowledge withall , an apparant plaine difference euen in those instruments themselues , respecting especially , their different maner of working . And therefore it will greatly enlighten our matter , if we doe further declare , first , how the humanitie of Christ is an instrument in the orderly effecting of miracles : and then next , how other good men , may also be said to be instruments . Lycanthropus A verie excellent order : I pray you therefore proceed . Physiologus . With verie good-will . First therefore , although it be true , that Iehouah alone is the primarie or principall efficient of euerie miraculous action : yet , this also is as certeinly true , that Iehouah doth eftsoones effect those admirable actions , by some such chosen instruments , as seemeth good to his wisedome . Neither are those his saide instruments of one and the selfesame condition : for the instruments wherewith the Lord serueth his purpose , they are twofold : namely , either conioyned , or seperated instruments . The conioyned instrument is Iesus Christ : who , albeit he be God , and man ; yet is he not two but one Christ. And therefore the diuinitie , and humanitie being inseperablie vnited togither in the person of Christ : the saide humanitie , it becommeth eftsoones , a conioyned instrument , vnto the diuinitie it selfe , in the powerfull effecting of miracles . Whereas all other men , else , howsoeuer they also may be the instruments of God in working of miracles : yet are they onely but seperated instruments , and not so neerely vnited vnto the diuinitie it selfe in any those admirable actions , as is the humanitie of Christ , and therefore , though instruments also , yet no such excellent instruments , as is the humanitie of Iesus Christ. This ( if it seemeth obscure to our sense ) may verie fitly be illustrated from the resemblance of a Carpenter entending , and effecting some admirable worke : if we consider therein , the Carpenters minde , his hand , and his axe . For first , the minde of the Carpenter ( it being in perpetuall motion ) is the primarie efficient cause of that selfesame entended busines : but yet , the Carpenters hand is a conioyned , and his axe also a seperated instrument wherewith he effecteth the purposed worke . Now then , euen as the Carpenters minde it selfe , doth primarily effect the whole worke , but yet so , as he vseth withal , his hand as a conioyned , & his axe as a seperated instrumēt to accomplish the same : so surely , the diuinitie alone doth principally effect●ech woonderfull thing whatsoeuer , although yet the diuinitie it selfe ( so oft as seemeth him good ) doth vse the humanitie of Christ as a conioyned , and other good men , as a seperated instrument , for the orderly accomplishment of many most admirable matters . And therefore , euen as the axe can worke nothing at all , but by the power of the hand , neither yet , the hand it selfe , but by the onely direction of the Carpenters minde : so surely , the holiest person on earth , can effect no admirable action at all , but in and by the power of Iesus Christ , as by the hand of the Deitie , neither yet the saide hand , I meane the humanitie of Iesus Christ , ( which is as it were a conioyned hand vnto his diuinitie ) it can ( of it selfe ) no further accomplish any one supernaturall action , then the diuinitie alone doth dispose it , and direct it vnto . So then , howsoeuer the humanitie of Christ , and many other good men , did instrumentally effect many admirable matters , and therefore ( in that selfesame respect ) were onely but the organicall instruments vnto the diuinitie it selfe , the onelie true agent in all those actions : yet surely , the humanitie of Christ , is a much more excellent instrument then any of the other besides , in an especiall regard of that Unspeakable diuinitie , whereunto it is inseperablie vnited . By vertue whereof , it was wholie sufficient , for Christ ( being perfectly God , and man ) to say thus to the diuell , I charge thee come out of the partie possessed : whereas all others adiured him only in the name and power of Iesus Christ to depart . Howbeit , whether those good men themselues , or the humanitie of Christ ( being solely , and onely considered as they are in themselues , without any transcending respect of the deitie ) did by meanes of their owne naturall power existing naturally in them , effect any such admirable matters : that I suppose may iustly be doubted . Lycanthropus . I pray you resolue vs something herein . Physiologus . How may I dare to resolue you in that , which some others of singuler account , hath left in suspence . For , Augustine ( entreating of the manifold miracles wrought by the Saintes ) he leaues the matter vndiscussed , thus . Whether the eternall God doth work these admirable matters by himselfe alone , or , whether he effecteth these things by his Ministers : yea , and euen those selfe-same things also , which are wrought by his Ministers : or whether he doth these things by the spirits of Martyrs departed : or , by the bodies of good men yet liuing : or whether ( by his Angels inuisibly , immutably or incomprehensibly ) he accomplish the same : or , whether by any other meanes else which may not be comprehended of mortall men : the faith of the resurrection to erernall life , will one day make it apparantly euident . Loe , thus much saith Augustine : and so leaueth the matter . Exorcistes . Yea , but Gregory , he seemes to determine the same in this sort . Those holy men ( saith he ) who claue fast to the Lord with a deuoute and religious mind , they were accustomed to work many miracles , both principally , and instrumentally : I meane , sometimes by praier , and sometimes againe , by an actuall power permitted vnto them . Physiologus . Gregory ( you say ) he seemes to determine the matter . If this be all that he saith therein , then surely , he vndertaketh more in a seeming shew : then he is able to performe in any shewing substance at all . For , that which you aleadge from Gregory , is no determination : vnlesse you happely imagine that we may boldly beleeue it , because your Gregory doth but barely report it . Exorcistes . Nay sir , he doth not barely report the matter ; but , he prooues it , very soundly , by reason , and example both . Physiologus . Shew vs his reason first : that we may soundly examine the soundnesse thereof . Exorcistes . His reason is this . They to whome is granted a greater power in that which is more , it is no merueile at all , if a like power be eftsoones permitted vnto them , in that which is lesse . But , a power to be made the sonnes of God by adoption ( which is more then the working of miracles ) is freely permitted to all the Saints of God : and therefore , there is no wonder at all , though a like power be eftsoones permitted vnto them ▪ for the working of miracles , it beeing a faculty inferiour to the other by much , yea , and such a power also , as the very wicked may haue . Physiologus . The soundnesse of this reason , consisteth in vnsoundnesse altogether : and therefore , the supposed soundnesse thereof , for the proofe of your purpose , is nothing else in effect , but a festured incurable corruption , concerning both matter and forme . For first , that it is faulty in matter , your selfe may plainely perceiue ; in that it wholely relieth vpon a very false exposition , concerning the word Exousia . For , whereas your Gregory , or your selfe ( in his name ) do translate it a ( power ) the whole coherence , and circumstance of the text , doth plainely declare , that , it ought rather to be termed a right , or prerogatiue . Yea and ( which makes me to merueile ) sith that selfesame word is diuersly translated , according to the diuerse occasions thereof , namely , sometimes a power , sometimes a faculty , sometimes a liberty , sometimes an authority , sometimes a care , a procuration , a right , or prerogatiue : It is too too strange that your selfe ( quite contrary to the true scope of the text ) should so confidently cleaue to the word ( power ) alone , aboue all the other rehearsed before . Neither may I possibly perceiue your purpose therein , vnlesse happely you would iumpe with Castalio and the papists in their free-will opinion : a thing directly opposite to the holy ghost himselfe , as you may plainely perceiue , both in that , and the verse immediately following . Where the Euangelist , acknowledgeth onely such as are borne of God : to haue the right or prerogatiue to be made the sonnes of God. Not vnderstanding by the word Exousia ( as your selfe would falsly beare vs in hand ) any power of electing : but a power of apprehending the adoption of God by faith . Attributing wholy therein , the effectuall working power of that selfesame adoption , to the almighty alone : and , the power of apprehending that priuiledge , vnto the sauing faith of the adopted sonnes of God in Iesus Christ. Yea , and thus much also your selfe ( at vnwares ) doe flatly confesse in your very assumption , saying , that they haue power to be made the adopted sonnes of God : making them plainely ( you see ) very passiues , and no actiues at all in the work of adoption . And so , your owne reason concludeth directly the contrary of that which you labour to prooue : namely , that those good men of God , they had onely a passiue power in the working of miracles , that is , they had none other but an instrumentall power therein , as we shewed before . Secondly , your reason it is faulty also in forme . For ( besides that the same is in no good forme ) it concludeth only , a ( may be ) from a bare , or naked supposall : telling vs ( by a pittifull begging of the cause in question ) that , if the Saints haue an actuall power in the greater , there needes be no merueile at all , if sometimes , they haue also a like power in that which is lesse . Very true as you say , if the Saints of God haue in deed , an actuall power in that which is greater : then , the sequel of your speech might happely haue in it , some more probability . But , whether they haue in them such a power or no : your Gregory he hath not concluded as yet . Exorcistes . Yea , but he illustrates the matter , by a plaine example . Physiologus . How could he illustrate the thing that is not at all ? For , it is not yet concluded ( you see ) that the Saints of God had euer in themselues , any actuall power for the working of miracles : and therefore , he cannot possibly illustrate the same , by any example . Notwithstanding , propound your example : that so we may see whether it be any sounder then the reason produced before . Exorcistes . That sundrie deuout and religious persons did effect many miracles , sometimes instrumentally , and sometimes principallie : I meane , sometimes by prayer alone , apprehending the power of Christ , and sometimes also , by an actual power permitted vnto them , it is verie apparant ( saith Gregorie ) by these folowing examples . First , the Apostle Peter , ( instrumentally by praier alone , apprehending the power of Christ ) restored Tabitha againe to her life . On the otherside , the selfesame Apostle ( more principallie , and by an actuall power , in himselfe , and without anie inuocation or praier at all ) did actually deliuer Ananias to death . By both which , it is verie apparant , that the holy men of God , they had in themselues , not onely instrumentally , but ( which more is ) euen princ●pally also , an actuall power , for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels . Physiologus . That , some holie men of God haue had an especiall power permitted vnto them , for the admirable effecting of miracles ; no wise man will euer denie : because the Scripture it selfe doth plainely auouch , that , vnto some there was giuen the operations of great workes by the spirit of God. Howbeit , this we must hold withall , that , such a power whatsoeuer , it was onely an instrumentall : and no principall power at all . For , seeing the sacred Scriptures do flatly affirme , that Iehouah alone doth woondrous things : we must therefore , verie conscionable confesse and acknowledge , that , Iehouah alone is the author , and man but the instrument of all those admirable actions whatsoeuer , which he ( by their hands ) doth so powerfully accomplish . Touching therefore your vaine surmize of Peter his principall power in the actuall deliuerie of Ananias to death : the Euangelist Luke ( a little after ) doth flatly auouch , that , Peter was onely the hand , whereby the Lord himselfe ( with his scepter , or two edged sworde ) did wound Ananias his soule vnto death . Yea , and it is verie apparant by the storie it selfe , that Peter he had onely a Ministeriall power in that action : he being but a Minister , and no Master of that selfesame worde of the Lord , which is vndoubtedly , a sauour of death vnto death , in them that perish . Howbeit , because that selfe same death of the soule cannot possiblie be discerned by our corporall eies : the Lord therefore he sawe it exceedingly good ( euen by the Ministerie of Peter therein ) to giue an extraordinarie visible token thereof , on Ananias his bodie . To the end , that so many as then beheld , or should from thencefoorth but heare of the same , might tremble at the maiesticall power of the word : and humble themselues to the auctoritie of God. Who hauing plainely foretold by the mouth of his prophet , that , he would smite the earth with the rodde of his mouth , and with the breath of his lippes destroy the vngodly : did euen then ( by the Ministerie of Peter ) exhibite vnto vs , an experimented triall thereof . So then , howsoeuer Peter himselfe ( he being the speciall instrument of Iehouah in that most admirable matter ) might ( by vertue of the principall agent it selfe ) attaine to the admirable acting of that , which highly surmounted the whole facultie or power of his owne proper person , euen as we also may see , that , a naturall heate ( by a power in the soule ) begetteth flesh : yet had Peter ( as hath that naturall heate ) onely an instrumentall , and no principall power in effecting the action it selfe , as we shewed before . Being therefore but onely a bare instrument , the instrument ( how absolute soeuer in it selfe ) is vnable to giue any further essentiall forme to any such admirable matter : then the principall efficient it selfe , doth powerfully dispose , and direct it vnto . Exorcistes . Well sir , if none other but a bare instrumentall power doth proceed from the instrument it selfe in the powerful effecting of admirable actions : why then doth the Scriptures so carefully record the spattle of Christ : the homme of his garment : the annointing with oyle : the shadow of Peter : the napkins brought to the bodie of Paul : with many other such signes , and woonders , which were wrought by the onely handes of the Apostles , and of other the saints of God ? Physiologus . All those ceremoniall matters ( how many , or how maruelous soeuer ) they had ( in their owne nature ) no actuall or miraculous power , for the powerfull effecting of miracles : but , were onely externall tokens of an extraordinarie grace of God , dispensed vnto men in the vsage of them . And therefore , we may not grosly imagine any such essentiall power , or holines in ceremonies , or creatures in sensible , as is able to effect any thing actually of themselues : but seeing it so pleaseth the Lord ( by himselfe , or his saints ) eftsoones to vse such sensible matters , as meere testifying tokens to vs , and no exhibiting signes in themselues , of that his infinite power in the acting of myracles : we must therefore ( by the helpe of those sensible signes ) endeuour foorthwith to transcend , or mount vp beyond the shallow reach of our reason , to Iehouah himselfe , the primarie , and onely efficient , and ( by the onely apprehension of faith ) bee fully perswaded , that , he alone is able to doe whatsoeuer he please , in heauen , and in earth . Otherwise we shall with the grunting papistes , and the carnal Capernaites , ( being beastes without reason ) but , lie altogither groueling vpon those earthly ceremoniall signes : in , and by which we should ( as it were by windowes , or grates ) prie through , and espie with our spirituall eies , the beloued himselfe , who standeth behind our wall , and cannot be seene withour sensible eies . How be it , this your needlesse fantasticall doubt concerning miraculous actions ( the same arising as it doth , from one onely sensuall view of some externall difference in the doing of those selfe same miraculous actions ) it may soone be discussed , if you would but consider aright ( as you ought ) those miraculous actions themselues in a double respect . Namelie , in respect first , of the actiue vertue effecting them : and then next , of the actions effected thereby . Lycanthropus . How first I beseech you , in respect of the actiue vertue effecting ? Physiologus . Why thus . If we dulie consider of all sortes of miracles in an onely respect of the actiue vertue it selfe , which actually effecteth those myracles : we shall plainely perceiue , that no one of them all ( how admirable soeuer in our carnall account ) is in it selfe more excellent , or greater then any of the rest . Because they are all of them , equally effected , by the onely diuine , and infinite power of Iehouah himselfe : and are such , as doe wholie surpasse the power of euery created nature , how holy soeuer . So that ( in this onely respect ) there appeereth no difference at all among any the miraculous actions of God : because , those selfesame actions , are all equally effected by that vncreated infinite power , which , is euermore but one , and the same . Pneumatomatichus . And , how also ( I pray you ) in respect of the actions effected thereby . Physiologus . Surely , euen thus . If we dulie consider againe , the onely actions , so powerfully effected by that infinite power of God , without any such transcending reach , to the principall author himselfe : then shall we as plainely perceiue an apparant externall difference in all those the miraculous actions . Whether we respect the effected actions themselues : or the manner of effecting the same . For first , if we respect but the only effected actions themselues ; then no doubt , there may some one of them appeare more excellent then another by much . As for example , the raising of dead men to life , doth outwardly exceede the curing of leprosies : and , the curing of leprosiès , doth sensibly surmount the curing of some sudden new sicknesse . Againe , if we also respect the externall manner of effecting those admirable actions : we may likewise perceiue an apparant difference therein . For , it is outwardly , more admirable to cure a leprosie by word , then by touching or handling : and , more woonderfull by much , to heale the diseased by a passible , or vanishing shadow , then by an audible , or sounding word . Because , such a sounding word , is some matter , proceeding powerfully from the partie that speaketh : whereas , the vanishing shadow , it is no matter , proceeding from the partie himselfe , but onely , a priuation of light , by an interposition of the partie his bodie . Thus then , by all the premisses it is verie apparant , that , neither the humanitie of Christ in it selfe , nor , any one else of the saints of God , either had , or , could possibly haue any other , then onely an instrumentall power in the powerfull effecting of miracles : and therefore , it is too too absurd , that your selfe should dare to chalenge a personall power , for the expelling of diuels . Exorcistes . How cunningly soeuer you seeme to conclude : very certeine it is , my selfe did personally and powerfully driue foorth the diuel . Orthodoxus . You could not possibly effect such a work , by any your owne naturall power as hath by Physiologus beene handled at large . For , if the humanity of Christ ( it beeing a conioined instrument vnto the diuinity it selfe ) could not possibly accomplish any such admirable matter : much lesse may any supposed personall power ( existing but naturally in your proper person ) be able to do it . Exorcistes . I perceiue you haue hetherto mistaken my words . For , my meaning is not , that I ( of my selfe ) did personally accomplish that worke , by any mine owne faculty , vigour , or strength : but , I did the same rather , through the vertue and power of the almighty creatour . Orthodoxus Oh , then I perceiue you are almost quite ferreted foorth from all your starting holes , and are now brought in a manner before the very mouth of that masking not , which will so entangle your toong , as you shall neuer be able ( with all your windings and turnings about ) to work foorth your selfe . For , tel me ( I pray you ) did your selfe cast foorth the diuel by meanes of some supernaturall power from the Lord : or the Lord rather driue foorth the diuel by your hands ? Exorcistes . A very superfluous and needlesse question . Orthodoxus . But , the answere is needefull : and therefore , answere vnto it . Exorcistes . Why sir ? the Lord draue him foorth by my hands . Orthodoxus . It should seeme your wits are bewitched . For , not long since , you said that your selfe did cast foorth the diuel by meanes : but now ( perceiuing all meanes to faile ) you flee to the power of God. And so still , you doe make the power of God but a meanes , and your selfe the maine or principall actor : that , thereby you may arrogate to your selfe , the glory due vnto God. Exorcistes . That is no part of my purpose . And , howsoeuer the Lord alone , be the onely efficient of euery such admirable action : yet ( in sundry scriptures you know ) it is an ordinary vse with the Lord , eftsoones to grace his Ministers , with that selfesame glory of the work , which is proper alone to himselfe . Orthodoxus . Wee are not ignorant of the course of the scriptures concerning that point . Howbeit , when you seeme ( as hetherto you haue done ) to speake of your selfe besides the scope of the scriptures : you must pardon vs then , though we esteeme not your words as canonicall scriptures . But , goe to , you cast foorth the diuel ( you say now ) by the power of God. Do tel me therefore ( I pray you ) whether you acknowledge not that selfe-same power of the Lord , a mere supernaturall power , and much beyond the shallow reache of any your natural faculty , to attaine vnto ? Exorcistes . Yes , I acknowledge so much . Orthodoxus . By what meanes then , did your selfe so effectually apprehend : that selfe same supernaturall power of God ? Exorcistes . By the onely meanes of my praier and fasting ; as I told you before . Orthodoxus . And I also did verely suppose you had heard enough before , concerning the insufficiency of that selfesame meanes , considered alone in it selfe . But , go to , you apprehended that supernaturall power of the Lord ( you say ) by the onely meanes of your praier and fasting . Doe tel me therefore , where you haue any promise throughout the whole scriptures : that , your praier and fasting ( for an effectuall apprehending of that power of the Lord in any such extraordinary actions ) shall be effectually heard of the Lord ? Exorcistes . Why sir , our Sauiour Christ , he hath giuen an infallible promise concerning euerie such action , saying , Whatsoeuer you aske the Father in my name he will giue it vnto you . Orthodoxus . Do you imagine , that , those words of Christ , containe such a promise as tendeth directly , to an absolute warrant for euerie such enterpise : how extraordinarie soeuer ? Exorcistes . I do more then imagine : for I make no question thereof . Orthodoxus . Well then , put case you your selfe ( by praier and fasting ) should vndertake to entreate the Lord foorthwith to sende fire from heauen , for the admirable destruction of antichrist himselfe , and all his adherents : would that selfesame petiton be graunted vnto you , in an onely regard of your praier and fasting . Exorcistes . The prophet Elijah ; by his onely praier , obtained as great a matter as this from the Lord. Orthodoxus . You wot not ( I perceiue now ) what spirit you are of . Doe first prooue directly vnto vs , that you haue Elijah his spirit : and , then proceed ( in Gods name ) to Elijah his practise & spare not . Howbe it , because ( from this generall promise of Christ ) you doe grosly imagine that very selfesame warranted assurance , for the powerfull expelling of spirits by praier & fasting , which Elijah obtained against Azariah and his seruants , by that his speciall praier to God : I am willing you should dwell in that your preposterous opinion , so you can demonstrate the truth thereof , by any probabilitie or reason , and therefore , doe frame your owne argument , from that selfesame promise . Exorcistes . I frame it thus . Whosoeuer asketh any thing of God , in the name of Christ , he shall vndoubtedly obtaine his request : But , so many as ( by praier and fasting ) doe craue an extraordinarie power for the powerfull expelling of spirits , they aske something of God in the name of Christ : therfore , they shal vndoubtedly obtaine their request . Orthodoxus . The verie frame of your argument , is scarce in good frame . For your assumption now ( as all men may plainely perceiue ) is absurdly fallen into a fearefull consumption . Because , howsoyour owne selfe ( by these preposterous practises ) presumed most grosly to prophane the name of Christ , as hitherto you haue done : verie certeine it is , that such a request may not truely be said to be either made , or put vp in the name of Christ. For , to aske any thing truely in the name of Christ , is , either to aske that which onely appertaines to the glorie of his name and kingdome alone : or else , that thing especially , which ( for our speciall good ) we hope to obtain at the hands of our God , through the gratious prerogatiue of Christ his name . After the first maner of asking Elijah he called for fire from heauen , and the Apostles ( being fearefullie threatned ) entreated the Lord to stretch foorth his arme , that healing , and signes , and woonders , might be done by the name of his holie sonne Iesus . After the second maner of asking , doe all the faithfull entreate the Lord ( by praier and fasting ) for such spirituall graces , as do necessarily concerne their owne and others saluation in Iesus Christ. And hereunto onely , that , the forenamed generall promise ( made by Christ ) hath a more speciall relation . Now then , that first maner of asking things in the name of Christ , being onely peculiar to such as haue some speciall motion from the holie spirit of God for such speciall requests : it specially behooueth your selfe ( in these your admirable enterpizes ) to be vndoubtedly assured of some such speciall motion from that selfesame spirit of God , or euer you giue the aduenture so boldly , vpon such an extraordinarie practise of any your praiers and fastings . Otherwise , this promise of Christ it appertaineth no further vnto you , then you haue an apparant warrant ( from the word it selfe ) for the ordinarie disposing of those your second maner of sutes , by the gracious prerogatiue of Christs name . Exorcistes . Why sir , I had the plaine worde of Christ for my warrant , where he telleth vs plainely , that , that this kind goeth not foorth , but by praier and fasting . Orthodoxus . I was verely perswaded , you had taken your fill of that text before . But , seeing you will fasten vpon this portion of scripture afresh : I am very well willing you shall haue your full pleasure thereof . And therefore , doe tel me plainely I pray you , whether by the words ( this kind ) in that place , you do only distinguish spirits and diuels from all other creatures : or , whether you do seuerally consider those diuels themselues , according to their sundry conditions ? Exorcistes . Nay sir , I doe thereby seuerally distinguish spirits and diuels among themselues : vnderstanding by the words of Christ , onely those principall spirits , which can no otherwaies be expelled , but by praier and fasting . Orthodoxus . And , haue all sorts of spirits ; or but onely those principall diuels , an actuall possession in men ? Exorcistes . Vndoubtedly , all sorts of diuels haue an actuall possession in men , and may by a commaunding power be compelled to depart : howbeit those principall spirits whereof Christ more especially entreateth , they cannot possibly be expelled but by praier and fasting , as an ordinary meanes appointed of God. Orthodoxus . As in this answerelesse answere you would haue men imagine , that a bare ordinary meanes ( by your ingenious handling thereof ) is able to effect many extraordinary matters : so , it seemes againe by your speach , that the Apostles of Christ were neuer acquainted before with any of those principall spirits , which made them so vnreadie in that vnwoonted occurrent wherewith they were then ouertaken . Besides that , a man might greatly woonder how your selfe should so readily perceiue the diuell at Mahgnitton , to be a diuell of that selfesame kinde , in meeting with him so fitly ( at the first onset of all ) by your prayer and fasting : were it not , that ( by your long experience ) you are now growen such an experimented practitioner concerning the Infernall hierarchie , as both you know how to conuent before you , eche seuerall diuell in his seuerall kinde , and which way to conuince him by his speciall name . Neither may this be deemed any matter impossible for your selfe to effect at this present : who a dozen yeeres since at the least , could coniure foorth seuen at a clap , by their seuerall names . Telling the beholders thereof , in what moment of time , ech diuell tooke his leaue : and by what speciall name he was properly called . Surely , this makes many wise men imagine , that , either you are a man profoundly experienced in the Cabalisticall craft : or that else , you haue too too strangely , a long time deluded the simpler sort . In bearing them falsely in hand , that ( onely by your prayer and fasting ) you doe fully apprehend an extraordinarie power , from the Lord , for the powerfull expelling of diuels : whereas Christ ( the true wisedome of the father ) doth tell vs , that such an extraordinarie power , is onely apprehended by a speciall faith . Affirming withall that this speciall faith , it hath prayer and fasting annexed vnto it , as the onely supporters thereof , and no actors at all , in the admirable effecting of any such accident . Exorcistes . Oh , then I perceiue you haue a long time mistaken my meaning . For , howsoeuer I vrged the holy exercise of prayer and fasting as an appointed meanes for the powerful expelling of spirits : my purpose therein was neuer to exclude the action of faith , it being an effectuall apprehender of that selfe same extraordinarie power of the Lord , which so powerfully effecteth the worke . Orthodoxus . If this be your meaning , we shall haue you at a non plus before it be long . For , seeing now you make faith an actor in that your preposterous enterprise : doe tell vs directly what faith you meane ? Whether the historicall , the iustifying , or the miraculous faith : for the dead faith , I am certaine it was not . Exorcistes . Neither could it be the historicall faith : because , that hath onely a speciall relation but to the bare historie of the Bible it selfe , without any apprehension at all of the power of God. As for the miraculous faith , that is thought to be ceased long since . And therefore , it was , and is onely a iustifying faith which apprehended that power of the Lord : by vertue also whereof any godly Minister , or others , might as effectually haue performed that action , as I did my selfe . Orthodoxus . I am iust of your minde , for that matter . Howbeit , if an only iustifying faith may effect such an action : then hath that faith some certeine word concerning such workes , with a speciall promise of such an effect . But in all the whole Scriptures neither word nor promise concerning such purpose , is any where extant : and therefore , the iustifying faith could not possiblie effect such an action . Exorcistes . Yes sir , the iustifying faith , it hath an apparant word , and a promise both , concerning such matter , and that also from our sauiour himselfe : who told the possessed childs father , that , if he could beleeue it , his faith should vndoubtedly haue an effect , because , all things are possible to him that beleeueth . And therewithall ( vpon the profession of the fathers faith ) our sauiour did presently expel the euil spirit from his sonne . Orthodoxus . You huddle vp your reckoning without your host : and must therefore be enforced to reckon afresh . For , be it supposed our sauiour ( in that place ) doth vndoubtedly speake of a iustifying faith : yet is it certeine , that Christ meaneth not there the Exorcists faith , but the faith of the parties possessed . And so ( by consequence ) it was not your owne , but the yoongman his faith at Mahgnitton , that draue foorth the diuel . Exorcistes . Very true , his faith apprehending : but , my faith effecting the action . Orthodoxus . You do ouer grosly forget your selfe . For not long since it was the supernaturall power of the Lord , that effected the action ; your owne faith apprehending onely , that effectuall working power . Howbeit , your iustifying faith now ( it being but a bare apprehender before ) is become the powerfull effectour : and the possessed mans faith , the bare apprehender of that admirable action . Notwithstanding , whatsoeuer you dreame of Christs words , concerning faith for the action , he speaketh there onely of a faith in the partie : the verie want whereof , was that which hindred his owne disciples from effecting the worke . And for this onely respect , our sauiour ( in that part●ie alone ) reprooueth the incredulitie of that faithles generation : who hauing had so long experience of his diuine operations , were yet no better in the faith then the heathenish infidels . Yea , such a grosse incredulitie was also the very maine cause why our Sauiour himselfe at Nazaret ; either could not , or would not worke many myracles . Not , that his ineuitable power was vnable ( of it selfe ) to ouerswaie their palpable impiettie : but for that ( the Lord hauing solemnly decreed the powerfull effecting of those admirable actions by an interposition of the parties owne faith apprehending his power , and by other good meanes correspondent thereto ) their owne vnbeliefe and hardnes of hart , had ( so much as they might ) verie fearefully foreclosed the bottomles fountaine of those his spirituall graces from flowing among them . Whereas on the otherside , he readily yeeldeth to the timely requests of such as beleeue : whatsoeuer they craue concerning those admirable actions . By all the premisses then , it is too too apprantly euident , that Christ ( in this place ) he speaketh onely of the parties possessed , and not of the Exorcistes faith at all . Exorcistes . But Christ afterwards told his Disciples , that , their owne vnbeliefe was the cause why they could not cast foorth the diuell . Protesting withall , that , if they had but so much true faith as one graine of mustard seed : they should haue beene able thereby , to remooue mountaines out of their places . Orthodoxus . Do you vnderstand Christs words in that place , of the iustifying faith alone ? Exorcistes . Yea , why not ? Orthodoxus . Aske you why not ? Why man , by this meanes you would bring vs in doubt of the Apostles iustification : and which more is , you do verie blasphemously derogate from the authoritie and dignitie of their authenticall writings . Exorcistes . Nay sir , I call not their iustification in question , but do onely declare what was the principall stoppage to that speciall action : namely , the not effectuall working power of their owne faith for the present . Orthodoxus . Well yet , by the tenour of your speech you would haue vs imagine at least , that the iustifying faith of Christs disciples did oftentimes ebbe and flowe with the moone : because ( howsoeuer the same was alwaies inherently dwelling within their harts ) the efficacie thereof ( for that present ) was suddenly falne to a verie low ebbe . And ( which more is ) we must ( by the purport of your speech ) be further perswaded , that verie many whom Christ ( in the generall iudgement ) will finally , and iustly reiect as workers of iniquitie : they had once ( notwithstanding ) the true iustifying faith in themselues , howsoeuer they finally fell from the same . For many of them also , did ( in Christs name ) as effectually , and as powerfully driue foorth the diuels from people possessed , as did any of the rest , how holy soeuer . And so ( by consequence ) howsoeuer the callings and gifts of God to saluation be without repentance : verie manie notwithstanding , they may and do loose their iustifying faith , and finally fall from the grace of God. This as it strengthneth verie shrewdly the popish opinion of falling from grace : so doth it mightily weaken that vndoubted assurance of the sauing faith in all the elect . Exorcistes . Let it strengthen , or weaken whatsoeuer it will : verie certaine I am , that the iustifying faith may effect such a worke . Orthodoxus . If you meane such a worke , as your faith effected at Mahgnitton of late , we are growne to an issue . Howbeit , if you imagine that the iustifying faith may miraculously driue foorth a diuell : then , all the elect ( how vnexpert soeuer ) they also are sufficiently able to cast foorth spirits and diuels if they please . For , they are all mutually interessed in the selfesame iustifying faith : and do iointly participate with all the prerogatiues thereof whatsoeuer , as well as any of the rest . Yea , then those other preachers also , who seuerally , and at sundrie times did deale with the partie possessed : they might as effectually haue dispatched that matter as you did your selfe : vnlesse haply you imagine them but reprobates concerning the faith . Besides all this , if the driuing out of diuels from men , be ( as you would haue vs imagine ) the vndoubted effect of a iustifying faith : it must necessarily folow , that , so manie as cannot effect such a worke , they may doubt of their iustification in Iesus Christ. Yea , and those other Preachers also ( who eftsoones before , and with your owne selfe at that present ) attempted the matter in vaine : they may begin to make some scruple of conscience , concerning the soundnes of their iustification , for their faith could effect no such worke . Briefly , if the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels be in deed ( as your selfe doth auouch ) the essentiall effect of a iustifying faith : then surely , that selfesame effect ( so highlie surmounting verie many of the rest ) it would vndoubtedly haue beene reckoned vp in some one of those places at least , where the other effects of that faith are purposely registred by the spirit of God. Howbeit , this powerfull expelling of diuels , is not anie where mentioned amongst those other essentiall fruits of iustifying faith : and therefore , the same is no essentiall effect of anie such faith . Exorcistes . But in the xvj . of Marke , this powerfull expelling of spirits or diuels is principally put downe as an infallible effect of the faith of the Gospell . For , after our Sauiour Christ had spoken these words , he that beleeueth and is baptized , he shall be saued , he that beleeueth not , shall be damned , then he addeth foorthwith ▪ and these tokens shall follow them that beleeue . In my name , they shall cast foorth Diuels : speake with new toongs : take away Serpents ; drinke any deadly thing without hurt : yea , and but euen lay their hands on the sicke , and they shall recouer . Loe , all these ( you see ) are most admirable eflects . Yet such ( I assure you ) as doe vndoubtedly succeed a iustifying faith in Iesus Christ. Orthodoxus . I doe greatly mislike your assurance : for , these matters ( how admirable soeuer in shew ) they are no essentiall effects of a iustifying faith . Neither were they at any time , absolutely or simply , but after a sort ( as it were ) the signes or tokens of faith : and serued only for that primitiue age , wherein the Gospel of Christ was first to be preached abroad in the world . That selfesame primarie preaching of the Gospell , hauing ( by the vnsearchable prouidence of God ) such signes and tokens euen purposely annexed vnto it , as trumpets or criers to summon all sorts of hearers vnto the kingdome of Christ. For euen as Moses his lawe ( in mount Sinai , and throughout the wide wildernes ) did gaine a woonderfull auctoritie vnto it selfe , by reason of the manifold miracles effected by Moses and Aaron : which said miracles notwithhanding ( so soone as the people of Israell possessed the promised Land ) did foorthwith determine . So surely , those selfesame miraculous actions , which in the primitiue church did credit and grace the Gospell of Christ : so soone as the Gospell it selfe was vniuersally published abroad in the world , they foorthwith did cease and grow out of vse . By all which it is verie apparant , that , those admirable effects , they were onely but temporarie and personall prerogatiues , more especially appertayning to some speciall persons : accordingly as it seemed good to the Lord to bestow them himselfe , in the seuerall distributions of those his seuerall graces . Howbeit , because those speciall graces ( thus personally bestowed on some few ) did publikely tend to the publike profit of all the elect , and for that those admirable actions , so admirably effected by some one peculiar person , did generally serue for an vndoubted confirmation of the faith in all : it therefore pleased the holy Ghost in that place , indefinitely to name the beleeuers themselues , as though that which was done by some one , or a few , had beene generally effected by all the faithfull . Exorcistes . Howsoeuer he speakes but of one , or a few of the faithfull : very certeine I am , that the miraculous actions mentioned there , they are such essentiall tokens , as do vndoubtedly succeed the sauing faith of the Gospel . Orthodoxus . That , those tokens succeeded the preaching of the Gospel , we do neuer deny : but , whether they do follow the preaching of the Gospel , as the essentiall effects of that iustifying faith , which mutually belongeth to all the elect , is the very issue of the question betweene vs : the which I am willing ( if you please ) that Maister Beza doe determine for vs both in this sort : To another is giuen faith , by the same spirit . This is not that faith ( saith Beza ) which belongeth indifferently to all the beleeuers in Christ , for , the Apostle ( in this place ) entreateth onely of some certeine speciall gifts of the spirit : and therefore , this speciall faith , it hath a speciall relation vnto the effectuall power of God in working of miracles , so far foorth especially , as some speciall persons ( endued with that special gift ) were especially directed therin by some secret motion from the spirit of God. This therefore , is that faith , which we call ( in the schooles ) the miraculous faith : whereof an expresse mention more especially is made , in the seauenteene of Mathew : the sixteene of Mark : and , in the seuenth of Luke . This miraculous faith is plainely distinguished , yea sometimes seperated quite from that true sauing faith , , whose proper obiect is the good-pleasure of God the father for , and concerning the iustification and glorification of all the elect in Christ , effectually apprehended before by that their aforesaid sauing faith . Finally , this selfesame miraculous faith , she hath also her seuerall doubtings and sundry imperfections : as may plainely appeare in Moses and Aaron , and in the disciples , and for the which also euen Peter himselfe was sharpely rebuked of Christ. Thus farre Maister Beza . Where he maketh ( you see ) those signes and tokens , such onely effects as follow the preaching of the Gospel for the confirmation thereof : but , no essentiall fruits of a iustifying faith , as your selfe very fondly imagine . Exorcistes . Whatsoeuer Maister Beza or your selfe may imagine , very certeine I am , that Christ speaketh there of that sauing faith which doth orderly succeed the orderlie administration of the word and sacraments : saying thus . Goe yee into all the world , and preach the Gospel to euery creature . He that beleeueth , and is baptised , he shal be saued : he that beleeueth not , shal be damned . And euen then ( vpon this so solemne a determination concerning the sauing faith of the Gospel ) he addeth foorthwith ( by the copulatiue ( and ) the infallible tokens vndoubtedly succeeding that sauing faith ; saying thus . And , these tokens shall follow them that beleeue . In my name they shall cast out diuels , and so foorth . Demonstrating very plainely vnto vs , that , the effectuall power for expelling spirits and diuels : is an vndoubted effect of the iustifying faith . Orthodoxus . No such demonstration at all . For , Christ ( in that place ) doth onely declare what tokens should follow the preaching and faith of the Gospel , but , puts downe no essentiall fruits or effects of a iustifying faith as we shewed before , and which may yet more plainely appeare , if you rightly consider his maine purpose it selfe , and the orderly course of his speech concerning the same . The maine purpose of Christ , was to allure the elect to a timely entertainement of the sauing faith of the Gospel : and this he endeuoureth to do , partly , by an infallible promise of eternall saluation to all the beleeuers , and partly , by an ineuitable threatening of eternall damnation to all the vnbeleeuers thereof . And now next ( for their further confirmation in that selfesame sauing faith of the Gospel ) he addeth certeine temporary and personall priuiledges , as infallible tokens and pledges of that his eternall sauing power : I meane , the powerfull operation of many most admirable & miraculous actions . The which said personall prerogatiues , our sauiour Christ did purposely bestow vpon some certeine speciall persons : not that he would haue those personall prerogatiues reputed as essentiall effects of a iustifying faith , but , to be rather esteemed as temporary pledges or seales for the perpetuall establishment of his glorious Gospel . According to that in the end of the chapter , where it is said that the Apostles went foorth and preached euery where ; the Lord working effectually in euery of them , and confirming the word with miracles following . Thus then you may plainely perceiue how Christ putteth down those tokens , as temporary pledges or seales of the perpetuall truth of his Gospel : and no essentiall effects of the iustifying faith . And therefore , if you haue none other word else for your purpose , but that one place of Christ where he telleth vs , that this kind goeth not foorth but by praier and fasting , the same ( You see ) will not serue your turne : it being not ment at all of a iustifying faith , as hath beene sufficiently shewed before . Exorcistes . Howsoeuer you conclude at your pleasure : I will neuer be perswaded , but that , those tokens put downe by our sauiour there , they are vndoubtedly , the very essentiall effects of a iustifying faith . Orthodoxus . I conclude not at pleasure concerning this point : neither do I put downe my owne priuate opinion , but , the publique consent of many most singular persons , as may further be seene by their following testimonies . First , Chrysostome ( vpon that seuenteen of Mathew ) saith plainely thus . Seeing these miraculous signes are not now wrought by the Church in our daies : shall we therefore conclude , that so many of the Christians as cannot possibly doe the like miracles , they are vtterly destitute of faith : God forbid we should so hardly censure the deere children of God. The iustifying faith is now present among vs : but , that faith which was called the miraculous faith , is ceased long since . Againe , Sebastian Meyer , he saith , it is necessarie we should distinguish this faith of miracles , from the iustifying faith : because of that which our Sauiour saith concerning some at the iudgement day , who alleaging for themselues the miraculous faith , shall ( notwithstanding the same ) be reiected of Christ. Bullinger in like maner he writeth thus . Some vnderstand this place of the power of miracles , and doe hold the faith which is spoken of heere , for a particular faith , appertaining to the Apostles themselues : whom especially it behoued to confirme the preaching of the Gospell , by their working of miracles . Againe , Moses Pellacherus vpon the selfesame Scripture , doth make the miraculous faith , an vndoubted efficient cause of expelling the diuell from the possessed childe . Againe , Aretius , he telleth vs plainly , that , that which our Sauiour speaketh there , of the remoouing of mountaines , and of nothing impossible to them that beleeue : it must necessarily be vnderstood of that miraculous faith , , whereof the Apostle elsewhere entreateth . Master Caluin , he saith that our Sauiour ( in that place ) speaketh properly of a particular faith , the which ( as occasion requireth ) hath from the Lord , it secret motions : and is the same with that whereof the Apostle makes mention saying . If I had all faith , so as I could remooue mountaines out of their places , and haue no loue : I were nothing at all . Briefly , Musculus he writeth thus . The casting out of diuels ( whatsoeuer men thinke ) is an action of faith . Howbeit , it would be considered , of what faith the Lord speaketh . For we know there be three kinds of faith . The first is that faith , whereby we beleeue things to be such , as they are in the Scriptures propounded vnto vs : as we heare in the Scriptures , that there is but one onely true God , and the same an almightie Creatour of all things . This we beleeue by the Scriptures : and this faith is properly called an historicall faith . There is another faith whereby we beleeue the promises of God , and do truely apprehend his great mercy and grace in Iesus Christ : this properlie is called the instifying faith . The third kind of faith , is that , whereby we doe firmely beleeue , that there is nothing impossible to God , and whereby also the minde it selfe ( by a speciall motion of the spirit of God ) is forciblie mooued to the powerfull effecting of some admirable matters : and , this is properly called the faith of miracles . The first kinde of faith is most generall , and reacheth euen to the reprobates : in so much as satan also himselfe is thought to enioy it , according to that of Iames. Thou beleeuest there is one God , thou dost well : the diuels also they beleeue and tremble . The second kind of faith , is onely that sauing faith of the Adopted sonnes : by which they are firmely incorporate , & saued in Christ. Of this faith the Euangelist speaketh not heere : neither yet can they that haue this sauing faith , effect any miracles by vertue thereof . The third kinde of faith , is onely a particular faith , in some certaine speciall persons : and the same not alwaies in force , but hath her speciall times , and peculiar reasons annexed vnto her . This kinde of faith , may fitly be called a particular , or singular faith : it being the singular gift of the holy Ghost , and hauing from thence her singular directions , as the Apostle declareth saying , to another is giuen faith by the same spirit . The which ( without doubt ) must in no wise be vnderstood of the iustifying faith : because ( this being peculiar to some one , or a fewe ) the iustifying faith , it belongeth indifferently to all the elect . This miraculous faith , it saueth none , nor changeth the minde : neither is any man bettered thereby , the woorth of one haire . ( Yea , and it is also eftsoones bestowed vpon manie reprobate persons , who will say vnto Christ in the general iudgement ; Lord , Lord , haue we not by thy name prophesied , and by thy name cast out diuels , and by thy name done manie great workes : to whom he will answer , I neuer knew you , depart from me yee workers of iniquitie . Againe ( saith the Apostle ) If I had al faith , so as I could remooue mountaines , and haue no loue , I am euen as nothing . Of this faith our Sauiour speaketh in the place you alleage saying . If you had faith so much as is a graine of mustard seede , and should say to this mountaine remooue hence to yonder place , it should foorthwith obey you . By all these testimonies , it is very apparant , that Christ ( in that parcell of Scripture which you produce for your purpose ) speaketh nothing at all of the iustifying faith in Iesus Christ. Exorcistes . Howsoeuer your selfe doe conclude , and those your contestes may seeme to confirme : those tokens which Christ puts downe in that place , they are ( I am sure ) the essentiall signes , or effects of a iustifying faith . Orthodoxus . Although ( by reason of a selfe conceit ) the iudgement of learned diuines be vnable to ouersway your setled partinacie concerning this point : yet let the absurditie of your owne speech , enforce you ( at the least ) to forsake such a palpable errour for shame . For , if the tokens put downe in that place be ( indeed and in truth ) the essentiall and ordinarie effects of a true iustifying faith , as you would beare vs highly in hand : then surely , this palpable absurditie must necessarily ensue so absurd an assertion . Namely , that , either there are none ( now in these daies of the Gospell ) who may truely be said to be iustified : or that ( now at the least ) we haue the true iustifying faith in another edition , quite differing from that which was then in the primitiue Church . For , verie certeine I am , that , no Christians now ( how holie soeuer ) are able ( by the onely efficacie of their iustifying faith ) to driue out a spirit or diuell in any possessed : howsoeuer your selfe durst so boldly , ( I will not say blindly ) aduenture vpon such a woonderfull worke . Exorcistes . Sir , you doe ouer grosly abuse me with girding quippes : I would you knew it , I did not blindlie vndertake that admirable enterprice , as your selfe doth bluntly imagine . Orthodoxus . My imaginations herein are nothing so blunt , as the bluntnes of your cause doth require . For , if the vndertaking of such an admirable enterprise , without some apparant directions and warrant from the word , be but a walking in darkenes , yea , a verie desperate , and a blinde rushing vpon the worke it selfe : then I hope I do not grosly abuse you with girding quippes , because it is lawfull to call darkenes , darkenes . But your selfe did vndertake that admirable enterprise , without any apparant directions , or warrant at all from the worde , as hath beene sufficiently declared , and therefore you rushed but blindly vpon that woonderfull worke . So then , ( the premisses you see being dulie considered ) you are now enforced perforce to confesse , that , either you draue foorth no diuell at all from the yoongman at Mahgnitton : or that else , you draue him foorth ( at the least ) by the onely meanes of a miraculous faith . Howbeit , the miraculous faith you may at no hand auouch in that action : because you disclaimed the same but euen now , as a thing ceased long since . Exorcistes . Not so . I onely affirmed , that the miraculous faith , it was thought ( of some ) to be ceased long since : but told you not what opinion I hold my owne selfe , concerning that matter . Orthodoxus . Are you opinionate then concerning this point ? Let vs heare ( I beseech you ) your proper opinion : and tell vs without anie doubling , whether you hold for certeine , that the miraculous faith is yet still continued in these daies of the Gospell ? Exorcistes . If I auouch the continuance thereof , it is no heresie I hope . Orthodoxus . A man ( by the course of your speech ) may giue a shroud gesse concerning the length of your foote . Howbeit , the night is farre spent , and I am ouer wearie to hold out the controuersie without a breathing fitte at the least . Let vs therefore breake off for a little short space : and then set vpon it afresh . For , I am vnwilling to giue ouer the conference now , before the matters be brought to some better perfection . Lycanthropus . Gods name be blessed for your Christian care in doing vs good : and we willingly yeeld to your motion . Orthodoxus . Arise then , & let vs go walke a turne or two in my parlour . Philologus . We attend on your person . The end of the ninth Dialogue . The tenth Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . Whether a miraculous faith ( apprehending the power of God , for the powerfull expelling of Diuels ) be yet still continued ? What a true miracle is ? And whether the working of miracles , be now fully determined in the Churches of Christ ? The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOMACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Orthodoxus . A Pennie-woorth of ease , I perceiue is woorth a pennie : Oh how this little recreation hath reuiued my wearied spirits ? Do not you also , verie sensiblie perceiue the self-same effect in your selues ? Physiologus . Yes sir , blessed be God for the same . For my owne part , I feele my selfe as liuely in bodie , as sharpe in conceit , yea , and as fit for the conference , as I was at the first beginning . Lycanthropus . The same I dare say for my selfe and the rest . Orthodoxus . Let vs then go roundly to worke . Come on Exorcistes , tell vs in good sadnes , doe you hold it for certaine , that the miraculous faith , is yet still continued in these daies of the Gospell ? Exorcistes . What reason haue you to imagine the contrarie ? Orthodoxus . What reason ? I will giue you one reason ( for this once ) in stead of a thousand , thus . The working of miracles is ceased long since : and therefore also the miraculous faith . Exorcistes . Why sir ? to remooue the diuell by prayer and fasting is no miracle at all . Physiologus . Maister Orthodoxus , doe rest you a little , and let me argue this point . Come on Exorcistes : and answere directly . Is the driuing out of diuels by prayer and fasting , no miracle I pray you ? Exorcistes . It is no miracle at all . Physiologus . Well , then I perceiue , we are of necessitie enforced to declare plainely vnto you , first , what a miracle is , with the sundrie kinds of miracles : and then next , we will exactly consider of your action at Mahgnitton , to see , whether the same ( pretended to be done by your selfe as it was ) may truely be termed a miracle , in any respect ? Lycanthropus . I pray you proceed in your purposed course . Physiologus . With very good will. Wherein first , for the word ( miracle ) it selfe , we haue to consider , that , that thing which we commonly account a miracle , is named of the Hebrewes ( niphlah ) I meane , a most admirable or , a merueilous matter . Or rather ( niphlath ) if you will : that is , a woonder quite hid from our eies . And therefore , all those obscure and admirable matters which do highly surmount the reach of our reason : they are commonly called ( niphlaoth ) that is , very strange and admirable actions . Or rather ( miphleoth ) I meane , such hidden , and such secrete occurrents , as cannot possibly be conceiued by the narrow compasse of our common , and naturall sense . They do fitly proceed from the radicall word ( palah ) or ( niplah ) which is as much to say , as , to be vailed , obscured , quite hidden , difficult , and very highly surmounting the shallow reach of our reason . Because , euery miraculous action , is alwaies some such kind of matter , as is ouer much vailed , obscured , hidden , and difficult , beyond our common capacity : yea , and such an vnwonted occurrent , as seemeth most admirable , and very hard in our present apprehension . In like manner , the Gretians , they entitle it ( thauma ) that is a merueile , or woonder . And , it commeth of the verbe ( thaumazo ) which signifieth to admire , to merueile , or woonder . The latines , they call it miraculum , quasi occuli mirum , the woonder of the eie , for that it seemeth a merueile in euery mans eies : and therefore , they do oftentimes expound it , a prodigious , a monstrous , or , an admirable matter , for that the Lord by such an vmvoonted meanes , doth extraordinarily foreshew some admirable accident , quite contrary to the accustomed order of nature her selfe . So then , by all the premisses it is verie apparant what a miracle is . Namely , it is by the extraordinary working power of the Lord , some such vnaccustomed action , as verie highly surmounteth the whole faculty of euerie created nature : and is therefore thus admirablie effected , to the end it might the rather affect the beholders with an admiration thereof , & might the more certeinly confirme their faith in the truth of the worde . In this definition we may easily discerne all the essentiall causes of myracles . For first , the efficient cause of euerie such admirable action , is an extraordinarie working power of the Lord. The materiall cause , are all those admirable actions themselues . The formall cause , is the vnaccustomed maner of effecting those actions . The finall cause , is partly to affect the beholders with some serious admiration concerning the omnipotent power , and wisedome of God : and partly , to confirme their faith in the truth of the worde . By all which you may plainely perceiue what a miracle is . Lycanthropus . Verie true : but , what be the sundrie kindes of miracles ? Physiologus . They are those variable and differing sorts of admirable actions : which both may be , and are diuersly discerned according to their diuers and sundrie conditions . And these sundrie sorts of miracles , are twofold : namely , either true , or false miracles . Philologus . Which are the true miracles ? Physiologus . They are al those admirable actions whatsoeuer , which ( both for their matter and forme ) are rightly and truely effected : and which also , are wholie directed to their certeine determined endes , namely , the glorie of God , and credit of his glorious Gospell . And , such are all those admirable actions ( how sielie soeuer in shew ) which were miraculously accomplished , either immediately by the Lord alone : or mediately at least , by his extraordinarie ministers . Pneumatomachus . Which are the false miracles ? Physiologus . They are all those admirable matters in shew , which either are not ( in deed and in truth ) the selfesame thing they seeme to portend : or which else are effected , not by any supernaturall power surmounting the reach of our reason , but , by some such naturall facultie of nature herselfe , as is hidden and secret from the present apprehension of those that behold the same . Yea , and which also are eftsoones directed to some such specialpurpose , or sinister end , as is directly opposite to the glorie of God , and the truth of the Gospell . These later sorts of miraculous actions ( how admirable soeuer in sensible appearance ) they may without any extraordinarie helpe of the Lord , be easily effected by Angels , by diuets , and expert persons : euen onely thorough some hidden facultie of nature her selfe three manner of waies . 1. For first , verie certaine it is , that Angels , diuels , and men ( expert in naturall philosophie ) hauing a deepe insight into the hidden secrets of nature : and being thoroughly experienced in the powers thereof : they may and can easily apply those saide natural powers , to some such perexisting matter , as hath in it selfe , a naturall disposition to euerie such action entended . For , from the naturall coniunction of some such perexisting matter with some proffered efficients , there will euen naturally succeed , some such vndoubted effects , as the partie ( procuring such naturall coniunction ) propounded before . Yea , and those also vpon the sudden , and beyond the expectation of all the beholders therof : which doth eftsoones enforce them to admire at such rare , and vnwoonted euents . For , the diuell himselfe , as also , those experienced persons in natures secrets , they doe verie well know , that frogs , wormes , yea , and also some serpents , are easily engendred of some putrified matter perexisting in nature : especially , if there be added to euerie such putrified matter , and of heat ; by such certaine degrees as is correspondent thereto . Now then , this the foresaid conioyning of putrified matter , an actiue heat together , being not verie difficult for diuels , and for cogging companions to effect if they please : they therefore eftsoones doe attempt the timely effecting thereof , and all to circumuent and deceiue the beholders themselues . Euen as did Iannes and Iambres , the Egyptian sorcerers : if Augustines iudgement be adiudged Canonicall . 2 Secondly , the diuell himselfe , and so many besides as haue any insight at all into the secrets of nature , they doe very well know , that some sodaine commotion of the naturall spirits , of bloud , and of humours , do mightily disturbe and distemper the bodies of men . Insomuch as the imaginations , the formes , and representations of things raised vp and conserued in those selfesame commotions : are eftsoones exhibited to the phantasie or imaginatiue facultie , at the verie same instant the commotion was made , yea , and eftsoones also , euen in that selfe same manner and order wherein it pleaseth the disturber of our spirits and humours to conuaie those selfesame representations . By which said meanes verie many and sundrie visions do foorthwith appeere to the phantasie : as we may plainly perceiue in so many as are fearefully affected with Phrenesies . Yea , and ( which more is ) the matter it selfe may be brought to such issue , as those selfe same representations which are inwardly conserued in the imaginatiue facultie : they may , and are eftsoones recalled to the externall senses themselues . In so much as the partie ( preposterously affected therewith ) doth verie strongly imagine that he vndoubtedly beholdeth those selfesame things with his eies , which were apprehended before , in the phantasie , imagination , or common sense , and are conuersant wholy therewith : whereas ( in deed and in truth ) there was neuer any such matter existing essentially in outward appearance . 3. Lastly , many like admirable matters may verie easily , and ( as it were ) with a trice , be foorthwith effected both by diuels and by cogging companions : either by the assistance of some precompacted confederacie , or through the onely supply of some local motion . Wherein ( partly by watchwords , and partly also by the present exchange of one thing for another ) many admirable actions ( in an outward sensible seeming , and by a nimble conueyance ) both may be , and are eftsoones effected by seducing make-shifts , and iuggling mates . Now then , all these the forenamed sundrie manners of working many admirable matters in outward shew : how strange soeuer they seeme to the beholders themselues , they are simply no miracles at all : howsoeuer ( respecting our shallow reasons , and stinted iudgements ) it pleaseth the Lord eftsoones to entitle them so in the sacred scriptures . Come on therefore Exorcistes , now that you haue sufficiently heard what a miracle is , as also of the sundrie sorts of miracles : doe tell me with whether of both these sorts of miracles aforesaid , you do range your supposed admirable action wrought at Mahgnitton ? I meane , whether we must esteeme the same a true , or false miracle ? A true miracle you may not affirme it to be : both because the same is vtterly destitute of all those the former essentiall causes of miracles , and for that , no such thing at all was euer effected , as hath beene , and shall be shewed at large . Againe , a false miracle ( I beleeue ) you will neuer auouch it to be : for feare of being forthwith concluded some such cunning Impostor , as hath ( only by iuggling sleights and falfe legerdemaines ) a long time bewitched the minds of the simple . Exorcistes . I account it no miracle in any respect . And surely , if your selfe , or any other haue conceiued thereof , as of a miracle , and thereupon also haue thought hardly vpon it , for that the miraculous actions are thought to be ceased : you are therein ( by your patience ) verie deepely deceiued . Physiologus . Why sir ? is not the driuing out of Diuels a miracle ? Exorcistes . In deed , to cast out diuels by a commanding word so as one no sooner commaundeth the spirit to goe out , but foorthwith he departeth , as Christ and his Apostles did : this I confesse , is not onely a miracle , but of them the greatest . Howbeit , by meanes of prayer and fasting to driue out Satan , or rather , to entreat Christ ( to whom all power is giuen in heauen and in earth ) to cast foorth Satan : is no miracle at all . Physiologus . And , why so I beseech you ? Exorcistes . Because of the meanes that is vsed . For , whatsoeuer is brought to passe by meanes , that same is no miracle ( because of that saide meanes ) be it neuer so woonderfull : as might be shewed ( but for breuities sake ) by a thousand instances . Physiologus . You are either a great frend vnto breuity : or breuity a good shelter to your wether-shaken cause at the least . Notwithstanding , for that you go about ( by a bare pretence of meanes ) to make a mere nullity in many miraculous actions , as shal be shewed hereafter : this I must be bold to tel you ( as it were ) by the way , that either I wholly mistake your meaning , or , your selfe do vtter you wot not what . For , if by the word ( meanes ) you vnderstand such a meanes , as hath essentially in it owne selfe , some energetical force , either naturally , or artificially , for the orderly effecting of matters : namely , such a meanes as hath in it selfe naturally some naturall consonancy concerning the action entended ( as hath naturall foode , for the orderly conseruation of our naturall being ) or if otherwaies , you vnderstand such an artificiall meanes , as hath in it selfe artificially , an apt correspondency vnto the purposed businesse ( as hath the carpenters axe , to the hewing and squaring of logs ) then you say true . Because , any thing effected by such essentiall meanes , hath in it ●elfe no extraordinary or supernaturall power , ( how admirable soeuer in shew ) but is ordinarily effected by mere naturall , or artificiall meanes at the least : and therefore , howsoeuer a woonder , yet no miracle in any respect . Howbeit if by the word ( meanes ) you vnderstand some such supposed phantasticall meanes as , neither naturally , nor artificially hath in it selfe any ability , disposition , or aptnesse at all to any such action entended , as are all created , or mere naturall meanes whatsoeuer , to euery of those extraordinary and supernaturall actions which wholly concerne the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels : then , this your speech ( respecting especially the point of our question ) is too to absurd and sencelesse . Neither shall you euer be able ( though you set breuity aside for the present , and take what leasure best liketh your selfe ) to giue vs herein , so much as one onely true instance , out of all those your pretended thousand instances , whereof you so brauely vaunted before . Exorcistes . You goe about I perceiue , very sleightly to ouerslip the maine point of my argument : by this your cunning new-coined distinction of meanes . Physiologus . Nothing lesse I assure you . And therefore ( seing you are so resolute ) do frame your owne argument : that you may foorthwith receiue an answere directly vnto it . Exorcistes . I frame it thus . Whatsoeuer is brought to passe by meanes , that is no miracle . But , the driuing out of diuels by praier and fasting , is brought to passe by meanes : therefore , the driuing out of diuels by praier and fasting , is no miracle . Physiologus . First , make plaine the ambiguous terme ( meanes ) in your maior proposition : and tel me plainely , whether you vnderstand thereby , any such essentiall meanes , as , either naturally , or artificially at least , hath in it selfe , some energeticall force , for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels . Exorcistes . I vnderstand not any such essentiall meanes at all : but such a meanes rather , as doth accidentally befall the action entended : that selfesame accidentall meanes , not hauing any further force in it selfe for expelling the diuel , then pleaseth the Lord to blesse it withall . Physiologus . This then I dare tel you for truth : that , your assumption is vtterly false . For , the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels , was neuer effected by any such meanes , but , by the onely supernaturall power of the Lord , as hath been sufficiently prooued long since : and therefore , euery such action ( notwithstanding your often pretended meanes of praier and fasting ) must needs be a miracle . Exorcistes . Nay sir , when satan is cast out by praier and fasting , the whole church , or any member thereof , it worketh no miracle : because , she cannot ( in vsing the meanes ) be assured to preuaile . For , although the assurance is , and may be great in this case : yet , we cannot be sure that the party shal be deliuered , the meanes beeing vsed : because , God is at liberty , to blesse the meanes he hath appointed to this ende : or to withhold his blessing from it . And , in this latter case : what will any meanes profit or preuaile ? Physiologus . Your minde ( it shoud seeme ) is mightily amazed with the matter in question : your speeches they are so fearefully distracted among themselues . For the assurance ( you say ) is very great in this case : and yet , you cannot be assured of the parties deliuerance . Because , the whole successe of that busines , doth wholie depend vpon the great blessing of God : without which the meanes cannot possiblie preuaile , or profit in any respect . Oh , heere are crowded vp closely togither , an huge company of crazie conclusions : the one of them proferring the canuizado , or counterchecke directly vnto the other . Insomuch , as if they be not al bound the sooner vnto the good behauiour : some bloudie massacre will vndoubtedly fall foorth among themselues . But goe to : what if your saide meanes should be blessed of God ? My meaning is this ; What if the Lord , euen at your praier and fasting be entreated to driue foorth a diuell ? Were that worke , thus effected ( as you fondlly imagine ) by meanes : no miraculous action at all ? Exorcistes . It is then , mirandum , non miraculum : that is , a woonderful worke , but not a woonder . Physiologus . Oh , then I perceiue , the verie period of time is now plainely expired : wherein that old verse must needes be fulfilled , which saith : Miranda canunt , at non credenda Poetae . — The Poets many woonders sing : Which are not woorth the crediting . For , tell me I pray you , whether you account this your newe comed distinction of mirandum , and miraculum : as a sound , and a currant distinction ? Exorcistes . Yea , why not ? It being the very same which the holy Ghost obserueth in sundry places of Scripture : where he putteth downe these two distinct words , namely , signes , and woonders . By signes he vnderstandeth all those miraculous actions whatsoeuer , which are called miracula : and by woonders he meaneth all those admirable matters , which , in an onely regard of their great vnwoontednes , are fitly termed miranda . Physiologus . This new-coyned Logicke , or rather , this coie-kinde of distinguishing causes , you haue learned I perceiue from nyce mistres Merchant : who ( with as great probability of reason ) hath tolde vs long since , that Pepper is hot in operation , and colde in working . Making operation and working , the diuident members of her pepper in sale : as you make your woonderfull worke , and your woonder , the seuerall kindes of admirable matters , and , all this , to manage ( if possiblie it might be ) your woonderles woonder wrought at Mahgnitton . And thus you would cunningly cast a myste if you could before the eies of the simple : to make them beleeue , that a woonderfull worke were no woonder at all , and that no woonder at all were a woonderfull worke . And so , it commeth eftsoones to passe ( especially among such as are desirous of nouelties ) that , signes and woonders must be esteemed , either as true woonders , or no woonders at all , whensoeuer , and so oft as it pleaseth your selfe to make of a woonderlesse woonder , a woonder of woonders . Howbeit , because this new phantasied distinction of signes & woonders , is be come ( at this present ) the fairest flower in your garden , to furnish foorth your faint-harted cause : it shall not be amisse first to put downe the verie true meaning of those two seuerall wordes : and then next , to lay open your palpable impudencie , in so groslie abusing the same , to serue your turne . Lycanthropus . I pray you proceed in your purpose . Physiologus . Content . First therefore ( for signes and woonders ) the Hebrewes , they haue vsually Oth , and mopeth , sauing , that eftsoones for the word Oth , they do vse the word Lanas , which signifieth a signe , or a banner set vp for a token , as in sundrie places of Scripture it is verie apparant . By the worde Oth , they vnderstand such a signe as portendeth some rare matter to come , or rather a woonder , whose prediction is hard at hand . It springeth from the radicall verbe , Athath , which is as much to say , as to come speedily , to make haste , or to runne : because euery miraculous action , ( surmounting the ordinarie course of nature , and comming to passe beyond the common expectation of people ) is eftsoones in place as it were on the sodaine , and within the beholders view before they begin to imagine thereof , as we may plainely perceiue by the verie vse of the word it selfe , in sundrie places . Againe , by the word Mopeth , they vnderstand some prodigious or seldome seene thing , some vnwoonted , or perswasorie matter , yea , or some such perswasible signe , as verie easily procureth credit with all the beholders . It comes of the worde iaphah , and hath an affinitie with pathah , which signifieth to perswade , or entice : because , euerie such admirable matter ( how vnwoonted soeuer ) it hath in it selfe such a perswading : or an entycing power as preuaileth with men . And , hereof it came to passe that the third sonne of Noah , fitly was named Iapheth , Gen. 9. 27. for that he and all his posteritie ( by the admirable promises put downe in the Gospell ) were so easilie perswaded or enticed to dwell in the tents of Shem , vnto whom the Sauiour was promised . The which dwelling with Shem , may fitly be called Mopeth , that is , a woonderfull matter : by reason of that woonderfull effect which it wrought vpon Iapheth , and all his posteritie . These two wordes ( Oth and Mopeth ) do differ the one from the other , in this , namely , for that the word Oth , is vsed in many places where the worde Mopeth may not be vsed : because Mopeth , it euermore respecteth the effect or the end , which is to procure an admiration with men : and therefore it is verie apparant , that a woonder ( respecting especially the beholders themselues ) is no lesse admirable , then a woondrous worke : howsoeuer it pleaseth your selfe to distingush the one from the other . Exorcistes . Not I , but , the holie Ghost doth distinguish them so , in sundrie places , especially in Deuteronomie : where he putteth downe signes and woonders , distinctiuely . Vnderstanding by signes , such miraculous actions as are onely effected by the supernaturall or commanding power of the Lord : and by woonders , such strange operations as do ( for their strangenes ) make men to admire , albeit not wrought by anie supernaturall , but onely by naturall meanes . These latter , they may ( for their strangenes ) be fitly called a woonder , but , no woondrous worke : because , they be effected by meere naturall meanes , and so my distinction ( your may see ) it is currant . Physiologus Were you not shameles , you would blush for very shame , thus shamelesly to brand the holie Ghost with a lie , and all to vphold your Legerdemaines : which cannot possiblie stande of themselues , but must needes be vnderpropped eftsoones withlying distinctions . For , whereas you would make signes and woonders , two distinct or seuerall matters , because of the distinctiue particle ( or ) put downe in the text , and thereupon would haue vs imagine that by ( signes ) are ment miracles , and by ( woonders ) is vnderstood a woonder forsooth , but no woondrous worke : may it please you to cōsider a little better with you selfe , how that the holy Ghost ( in that place ) doth vse those selfesame two words , not as seuerall matters distinct in themselues , but rather , as meere Synonyma , that is , words of one and the selfesame signification , exegetically put downe , the one to explane , or expresse the other , according to that in the Psalme , where the Prophet saith thus : Remember the maruellous workes which the Lord hath done : his woonders , and the iudgements of his mouth . Putting downe the woonders and iudgements of his mouth , to shew what he meant by the maruellous workes rehersed before . As if he should say thus , would you willingly know what I meane by the miraculous or maruellous workes of the Lord ? I meane , al those his woonders and iudgements , which ( so expresly and after such a speaking manner ) doe declare his extraordinarie working power : to the great admiration and woonder of all the beholders thereof . Howbeit , because the disiunctiue particle ( or ) is so pretious a pearle in your eies , what say you to that place in Exodus , where the verie selfesame words are expresly put downe to the selfesame purpose with that in Deuteronomie ; albeit not disiunctiuely , but rather copulatiuely thus . And I will multiply , eth-oththai , veeth-mopthai : that is , my signes and my woonders . Here the holy Ghost , he vseth ( you see ) the copulatiue ( and ) and not the disiunctiue particle ( or ) and yet , to one and the selfe purpose with the text you insist vpon : which plainely declareth , that signes and woonders , they are no such seuerall matters distinct in themselues , but were synonyma , the one put downe to expresse the other . Exorcistes . If signes and woonders be mere synonyma , and indifferently put downe for a miracle , then Dauid ( it should seeme ) he became a miracle , especially then , when he was reputed the woonder of men , according to his owne testimony : telling vs plainely , that he became a monster vnto many , which ( by your exposition ) must be vnderstood a miracle to many . Howbeit , the purpose of Dauid , was only to expresse his present distressed estate ; by the word mopheth declaring plainely vnto vs , that he was no lesse abhorred of wicked men , then if he had been a monster in nature . By the which it is very apparant , that something may truely be termed a woonder : and yet , the same no woondrous work . Physiologus . You doe very absurdly abuse the word mopeth it selfe : and most grosly mistake the true meaning of Dauid in that portion of scripture . For first , the word mopeth there , it doth not necessarily conclude , that Dauid was simply a monster : but rather , it noteth vnto vs , that he was generally reputed with many , as an admirable signe , or token of the extraordinary care of God towards all the chosen in Christ. And , so much , the letter ( ●caph ) prefixed before mopeth , and making it kemopeth : very plainely importeth vnto vs. For , that letter , it is ( as euery one knoweth right well ) a letter of similitude , or likenesse : and therefore , it must be translated , in like sort , euen as , euen so , as it were , in like manner , and so foorth . Whereupon you may plainely perceiue ( if you please ) that , the reading , it ought to be thus . I became ( as it had been ) a miraculous signe , or token to many . Not that the prophet was simply so , but rather , esteemed so ; yea , such a one in respect , and after a sort . Neither was it the purpose of Dauid ( in that place ) to make any mention at all , of any his present distressed estate : but rather , to expresse the admirable mercies of God , concerning his extraordinary working power , in so miraculously protecting the person and state of Dauid . As , if he should say . O Lord , thou hast with such faithfulnesse and truth , preserued thy poor seruant from time to time , that , very many ( in an onely consideration of my miraculous deliuerances ) doe not onely admire at thy extraordinary power in protecting my person : but ( which more is ) they are mightely mooued ( by the example of thy manifold mercies in me ) to depend altogether vpon thy wonderfull prouidence . That this is the true meaning of the word mopeth there , not onely the verie coherence of that scripture it selfe , but also the other like places where that selfesame word is purposely applied to any mans person , doth plainely declare . Howbeit , if by the word mopeth we must necessarily vnderstand a bare woonder forsooth , but no woondrous worke : doe shew me your opinion concerning another text in Ioel. Where the Lord saith he will shew woonders in the heauens and in the earth , bloud , fire , and pillers of smoake . The sunne shall be turned into darkenes , and the moone into bloud , before the great day of the Lord come . Doe tell me I beseech you , whether these woonders in heauen and in earth , this bloud , this fire , these pillers of smoake : whether I say , this turning of the sunne into darkenes , and the moone into bloud , are not euerie of them to be esteemed verie woondrous workes ? I hope you dare not , verie certaine I am , you may not denie them for such : and yet the holy Ghost ( notwithstanding this your new-coyned distinction ) he vseth the verie selfe same word mopeth , which you simply translate a woonder , but no woondrous worke , saying thus . I will shew mopthim , that is , woonders in heauen and in earth . Moreouer , where as the Lord in Ezechiel obserueth the verie selfesame word mopeth , which you simply esteeme as a wonder , but not a woondrous worke : the verie purpose and coherence of that scripture it selfe , verie plainely declareth , that it may not ( especially in that place ) be wel translated a woonder : but rather , a foreshewing signe or token of Israels captiuitie among the Caldeans , saying thus : I haue constituted or ordeyned thee , ki-mopeth nethattiack lebeth Israell . that is to say , a foreshewing signe or token to the house of Israel . And a little after in the eleuenth verse , thus , say thou vnto them , emor ani mopethkem : that is , I am your foreshewing signe or token : as I haue done , ▪ so shall it be done vnto them , they shall goe into bondage and captiuitie . By all the premisses then it is verie apparant , that those two words ( signes and woonders ) which your selfe would seeme to distinguish : they are not ( throughout the olde testament ) put downe ( concerning this question ) for any such seuerall matters distinct in themselues , but rather , as synonyma , and the one to expresse the other . Licanthropus . But , how are they vsed in the new Testament ? Physiologus . Euen as before in the olde . For else , either the holie Ghost should be contrarie to himselfe : or that which we concluded before is vtterly false . And therefore , for the Hebrew wordes Oth , and Mopeth : the Gretians in the new Testament ( for the most part ) they vse Semeion and Teras , that is , signes and woonders miraculouslie effected by the extraordinarie power of the Lord. Although , I denie not , but that now & then they vse other wordes equiualent with those , as did also the Hebrewes before them . For so it appeereth in Luke , that after the curing of the palsie sicke , the people with a woonderfull amazednes cried out , and saide : doubtlesse we haue seene Paradoxa , this daie : vsing ( insteede of those other we named before ) Paradoxa : which worde , the vulgar translateth mirabilia , Erasmus incredibilia , Tremellius prodigia , Pagnine , Beza , and Montanus , inopinata , that is , woondrous , incredible , strange , and vnlooked for things , or things beyond our common expectation . Againe , they vse eftsoones also , the worde Thaumaston , as appeereth especially in Mathew ; where ( after the admirable curing of the blinde , and the lame in the temple ) it is said of the high Priestes and Scribes , that when they behelde Thaumasta which some enterpret mirabilia , some miranda ; I meane , the great maruels and woonders which Iesus did ) they were highly offended . The like vse of this worde appeereth elsewhere in sundrie places of Scripture . Thus then the holie Ghost ( you see ) he vseth for this matter , such varietie of words as seemeth best to his wisedome : although for the most part he putteth down Seimeion , & Teras , as I told you before . And , by Seimeion , he vnderstandeth especially , all those foreshewing signes or tokens , which are by the onely miraculous power of the Lord effected : as verie plainely appeareth throughout the whole Bible . But by the word ( Teras ) he doth more peculiarly expresse all those admirable matters of the mightie Iehouah , which do sodainely procure admiration with men : as may verie euidently be seene in euerie Scripture , where the said word is in vse . By all which it is verie appant , that the Grecians also ( howsoeuer in the new Testament , they vse seuerall wordes concerning this question ) they do vnderstand thereby , no such seuerall matters , as are essentially distinct in themselues : but rather all those miraculous actions which are entirely accomplished by an extraordinarie , or supernaturall power of the Lord. Exorcistes . Howsoeuer you frame expositions to fitte your owne turne , the holie Ghost , he knoweth best how to enterpret himselfe : who telleth vs plainely in the second of the Hebrewes , that , God gaue testimonie to the Gospell , both by signes , and woonders , and by diuers miracles . In which place , either he doth plainely distinguish miracles from signes and woonders : or else he makes but a needlesse tautologie at the least , which were absurd to auouch . And therefore , my former distinction of woonders , and woonderous workes ( by this portion of Scripture ) is canonized currant . Physiologus . See how vainely you vaunt of a tryumph , before any stroke be stricken , concerning the sense of that Scripture . For , whereas you are in verie great hope , thereby , either to confirme your newfound distinction , or to taint the holie Ghost at the least , with a needlesse tautologie , I meane with an idle repetition of one ▪ and the selfesame matter : you do therein , first of all , verie fondly bewray your intollerable pride : who ( rather then you would submit to the truth ) are not ashamed at all , verie insolently to schoole the holy Ghost , concerning the right vse of a Tautologie . Howbeit , as Tautologies are verie frequent and ordinarie throughout the whole Scriptures : so are they not needlesse , or idle , as your selfe doth idlely imagine . No , they are rather a more euident demonstration , that the matter it selfe , so declared by them , is the more constantly confirmed vnto vs : according to the testimonie of the patriarke Ioseph . Who , directly told Pharaoh , that his double dreames , did both of them tende to one end : and that therefore , his saide dreame , it was the second time doubled , because the matter it selfe foreshewed thereby , was certeinly establisht by God. So surely , in that place to the Hebrewes , the often repetition of miracles by those seuerall termes of signes , of woonders , and of sundrie powers , it is no needlesse Tautologie , as you do triflingly tell vs : but rather a most necessarie doubling , and trebling of the matter it selfe by those selfesame termes , to the end , that the newly taught Gospell confirmed thereby , might the more firmely be testified vnto vs , according to the good purpose of God. And therefore , this place to the Hebrewes is so farre of from proouing your distinction a currant distinction : as it rather confoundeth the same . Notwithstanding , if you will in no wise be perswaded , but that ( howsoeuer ) some difference there is concerning those seuerall words : this then I must tell you for further truth , that , there is no difference at all as touching their primarie efficient , for they were all extraordinarily effected by a supernaturall power of God. But the difference ( if any at all ) respecteth their endes or effects : which was , to draw men into a reuerend admiration of that selfesame power of the Lord. As for example , first , the holie Ghost doth call miracles , signes : because they were authenticall significant seales , and testimonies vnto vs , that , the doctrine deliuered before , was truely from God. Againe , he calleth them woonders : because they were strange in themselues , and shewed foorth such an vnwoonted worke , as was vtterly vnknowen vnto men . Lastly , he calleth them powers : because they had in them , an euident proofe of the extraordinarie power of the Lord. Lo , this is the whole difference that may be discerned concerning these matters . The which as it truely declareth vnto vs , the vnchangeable purpose of God , in an vndoubted confirmation of the Gospell thereby : so doth it vtterly disanull your idle distinction of woonders , and woondrous workes , as may more plainly appeere , by an orderly conferring of this place to the Hebrewes , with that in the xvj . of Marke . Where the Euangelist affirmeth , that the Apostles went foorth and preached euery where : the Lord working togither with them , and confirming the worde with miracles folowing . From both which places of Scripture , I do frame this folowing reason . Whatsoeuer matter did extraordinarily succeed the Apostolicall preaching of the Gospell , for a further confirmation thereof to the world , that was an vndoubted true miracle . But , diuers signes and woonders , and powers , did extraordinarily succed the Apostolicall preaching of the Gospell , for a further confirmation thereof to the world : therefore , those signes and woonders , and powers , were euerie of them vndoubted true miracles . By this then it is apparantly euident , that , either you accomplished no woonderfull action at al , as touching any your supposed most admirable matters wrought at Mahgnitton : or if ( as your selfe do affirme ) the same was truely and indeed a true woonder , then was it also a woondrous worke , I meane , a true miracle howsoeuer you shelter the same . Exorcistes . It was onely a woonder , but no woondrous worke , as I told you before : and onely because of the meanes . For whatsoeuer is brought to passe by meanes , that is no miracle : because of the meanes , be it neuer so woonderfull . Physiologus . But , do you speake in good earnest ? Exorcistes . Yea , in verie good earnest . Physiologus . Then , tell me what you esteeme of the turning of waters into bloud by Moses his rodde : of the Egyptian frogges : of the swarmes of lyce which came vpon man and beast : of the Egyptian scabbes and botches by the sprinkling of ashes : of the thunder and haile , by the stretching out of Moses his hand : of the Egyptian grashoppers , ouerspredding the whole land : of the palpable darkenesse , throughout the whole land of Egypt : of deuiding the red sea , by the hand of Moses : of the rocke that gushed out water , by the stroke of the rodde : of Elijah his making the bitter waters sweete , by casting in salte : of the curing of Naaman his leprosie , by washing in the waters of Iorden : of the swimming of iron by Elisha his meanes : yea , what shall we thinke of giuing sight to the blinde , by a plaster of spettle and claie , first tempered togither : of helping to health by touching the hem of Christs garment : of curing verie many by annointing with oyle : by the shadow of Peter : yea , and by napkins brought to the sicke from the bodie of Paul. In euerie of these actions there was vsed some meanes : and yet , you dare not denie , but that they were euery of them miracles . Exorcistes . These were euery of them but dead , or rather quite contrary meanes to the worke which was wrought : and therefore , whatsoeuer was brought to passe by such impotent meanes they were notwithstanding , true miracles . Howbeit , praier and fasting ( being instituted of God to that work , performed withall , by the power of the spirit , and hauing moreouer , many promises annexed thereto ) it cannot possibly be , but that ( with the orderly obseruation thereof ) there goeth some ordinary power for accomplishing the purpose pretended : and , therefore , the casting out of diuels , or , the powerfull effecting of any other admirable matter by that speciall meanes , is no woonderfull worke , but a woonder , as I told you before . Physiologus . And , I told you likewise before , that praier and fasting hath no power of it selfe to driue foorth a diuel : yea , you your owne selfe affirmed euen now , that , the whole efficacy of that woonderfull work dependeth wholly vpon the good blessing of God. Without which , the meanes it selfe ( though neuer so duely performed ) preuaileth nothing at all . But ( to winck a while at these grosse ouersights ) doe tel me in good sadnesse , whether the driuing out of the diuel by praier and fasting , be any miracle at all ? Exorcistes . It is then , no miracle : because of the meanes . Physiologus . If the onely vse of that meanes , may make a flat nullity in miracles , my meaning is , if praier and fasting is of sufficient force to cause , that miraculous works become no miracles , and onely because of such meanes : then , tel me I pray you , what you think of remoouing the egyptian frogs and lice , by the praier of Moses : of Israels preuailing against Ameleck : of Elijah his reuiuing the widdow of Zarephthas sonne : of Elisha his raising the Shunamits sonne vnto life : of the admirable opening of his seruants eies : yea , what thinke you of the raising of Lazarus from death : of Peter his restoring of Tabitha againe vnto life : of the earthquake , and shaking of the prison , wherein Paul and Sylas were stocked : of Paul his reuiuing of Eutychus : of the curing of many , by the praier of the elders . These were all effected by praier you know : were these therefore ( I pray you ) no miracles ? Moreouer , what must we account of all the miraculous dispossessings of spirits and diuels in the primitiue church ? If , because they were euery of them effected by praier and fasting , they were therefore no miracles : then it foloweth by necessarie consequence , that there were neuer any actuall possessions , nor dispossessions of diuels , at anie time since the Apostles daies . Because , those dispossessions , ( how admirable soeuer ) being effected by praier & fasting , they could be no miracles ( by your account ) in an onely respect of that meanes : whereas , the possessions , and dispossessions of diuels ( notwithstanding that meanes ) they were alwaies reputed true miracles with the Church of God. And therefore if your selfe did driue foorth a diuell at Mahgnitton by praier and fasting , as you beare vs in hand : then surely , the same was not simplie a woonderfull worke , but also a woonder , I meane , a true miracle , notwithstanding anie such your supposed meanes . Exorcistes . If signes and woonders must euerie of them be esteemed true miracles indeed : it foloweth then , that , not onely the false Christs of euerie age , but Antichrist also himselfe may truely be said to accomplish true miracles : because , they also from time haue beene able to worke many strange and woondrous things . Physiologus . I told you before , there were two sortes of miracles : namely , either trué , or false miracles . The first sort is , when as a meere naturall matter , is either restored , or cured , or wrought by the onely application of meere naturall meanes . Howbeit , those said naturall meanes , either they are not altogither the same which we commonly vse : or , they are not vsed after the selfe-same manner and way . After this manner , the diuell , the Egyptian sorcerers , the false Christs , yea , and Antichrist also himselfe , they haue done , and may daily effect manie woonders . And , in an especiall regard of the strangenes thereof , they also ( abusiuely and after a sort ) may be said to be workers of miracles : because they accomplish such matters on the sodaine , as do make men admire . Howbeit , this kinde of miracles , they cannot truely be esteemed , true miracles indeed , because either they are not truly effected , or , not to a true end at the least : although yet , they may verie fitly be termed terata , that is , wondrous actions , because of the sudden woonder succeeding the same . The other sort of miracles are properly called Seimeia , that is , significant or foreshewing signes : and those are onely effected by Iehouah himselfe , who alone doth woondrous things . Yea , and that also , either without any meanes at all : or quite contrarie to the power of all naturall causes , and of nature herselfe . For , as the mightie Iehouah hath created nature of nothing : so is he able ( when it seemeth good to his wisedome ) to alter , to encline , and to ouerturne the orderly course of nature in any one thing whatsoeuer . Neither hath the said nature any power to withstand the creator and Lord of nature . Come on therefore Exorcistes , let vs goe strictly to worke . Either you wrought no woonder at all : or you wrought a wonder at least in the yoongman at Mahgnitton ? If no woonder at all : then did you grossely delude the world , by making them to stand gazing and woondring so long at a matter of nothing . On the other side , if you wrought a woonder at least : then was the same , either a false , or true woonder . If onely a false woonder , then you effected the same , either as a false Christ , to draw sillie soules into a falsely conceited holines , concerning your person : or as a minister of Antichrist , to establish vnderhand , some pretended deuise of your owne besides the authoritie of Christ. Howbeit , if that which you wrought at Mahgnitton , was ( in deed and in truth ) a true woonder , such I meane , as the Scriptures doe vnderstand by signes and woonders : then surely ( whether the same was effected by meanes , or without meanes ) it was an vndoubted true miracle . And therefore , you are now perforce constrained , to confesse that either you did nothing at all but iuggle with men , in that your pretended action : or , must flatly acknowledge , that you wrought a true miracle . Because the expelling of spirits and diuels ( whether with meanes , or without meanes ) is no lesse admirable now , then it was in the primitiue Church . Exorcistes . Nay sir , the miraculous curing of feuers , palsies , leprosies , and other diseases by Christ , & his Apostles , in those daies gaue credit to the Gospell : but if God ( by prayer and fasting ) should heale the falling sicknes or phrensie , or should graunt raine drought , victorie , or such like requests , were this a miracle . Physiologus . If I should but imagine the contrarie , men might verie well thinke I were not well in my wittes : for , what hath prayer in it selfe , for the orderly effecting of any such action , without the extraordinary working power of the Lord , which was euer reputed miraculous ? Howbeit , a miracle you may neuer auouch it to be ; both because you disclaimed the same before : and for that the working of miracles is ceased long since . Exorcistes . Howsoeuer you vrge the ceasing of miracles : there is no determination thereof in the holy scripture . Physiologus . Why man , the two maine causes of working miracles , namely , the testification of Christ his Deitie , and the confirmation of the Gospell , are long since determined by the sacred scriptures : and therefore , the working of miracles , are thereby also determined . The first , it was vndoubtedly determined by Christ himselfe , where he saith , that the euill and adulterous generation require a signe : Howbeit , no signe shall be giuen them , but the signe of Ionah the Prophet . For as Ionah was three daies , and three nights in the Whales belly : so shall the sonne of man be three daies and three nights in the hart of the earth . Christ there declareth vnto vs , that his death and resurrection should be the last signe , wherewith he would testifie to the world the truth of his Deitie . The other I meane the confirmation of the Gospell , it also was long since determined by the spirit of God in the sacred scriptures , as may verie plainely appeare , by conferring the sixeteene of Marke , with the second to the Hebrewes . For first , in the sixeteene of Marke he speaketh of a power from the Lord for confirming the word with miracles following . Putting downe in that place , the confirmation of the Gospell in the present time , saying thus . The Lord Bebaiountos , that is , confirming the word , as if the said confirmation had euen then beene in working . Howbeit , in the second to the hebrewes he speakes thereof as in the preter time : telling vs plaine , the Gospel was ebebaioothei , that is , confirmed vnto vs. Declaring thereby , that , the confirmation of the Gospel by miracles , was then so fully accomplished , and so finally determined , as now to let slip the certeinty of that truth which they had heard before , for want of a further confirmation thereof by miracles : they could not possibly escape the iust recompence of such a preposterous negligence . By the premisses then , you may plainely perceiue , that , those two maine ends of miraculous actions being long since determined : the working of miracles was euen then also determined . And therefore , although you had wrought a true miracle at Mahgnitton in deede : yet had the same beene merely superfluous . Exorcistes . This I suppose is your argument . The Gospel , it was fully , and finally confirmed before by miracles : therefore , the further confirmation thereof by miracles now is meerelie superfluous . Physiologus . It is euen the very same . Exorcistes . Then , the sequel ( I suppose ) is vnsound . For , why may there not be as much neede of such a miraculous confirmation in these daies of atheisme , as euer before ? Sure we are , that the scripture , the deity , and al religion , is by some among vs no lesse called in question now , then it was in any the former ages : as , the ecclesiasticall courts can testifie , and daily experience approoueth vnto vs. Physiologus . This your irreligious insinuation , concerning some supposed necessity of miracles now , in these daies of the Gospel : as it doth very blasphemously derogate from the absolute wisedome of God , in not foreseeing ( as it ought ) the future necessity of miraculous actions in euery age : so doth it dangerously vndermine the certeinety of that sauing faith which was onely confirmed vnto vs by former miracles . For , that faith could neuer be fully nor finally confirmed before , if any future necessity of confirming the same afresh , be eftsoones admitted : euen as that princes broade seale , may at no hand he accounted authentically currant , which needeth eftsoones to be iterated or imprinted afresh . Besides that , this pestiferous insinuation of yours , it doth open a wide gap to all manner of iuggling knaueries , and crafty legerdemaines . For , if ( vpon euery such insinuation ) the working of miracles be once freely permitted : then , euery cogging companion ( vnder an holy pretence of miracles ) may foist into the church at his pleasure , whatsoeuer best pleaseth his phantasie , and so , the certeine truth of our hoped saluation , should neuer be certeine vnto vs. And therefore , tel me plainely I pray you : whether you hold the continuance of miracles in these daies of the Gospel ? Exorcistes . Whether I hold , or not hold the continuance thereof it makes no great matter : because that article , in this action is not to be controuersed at all . Physiologus . If not in this : then in no one action whatsoeuer . Howbeit , because you are very loath ( I perceiue ) to acknowledge that truth , which you must needes be enforced at length , either openly to confesse , or else vtterly to disclaime your admirable action wrought at Mahgnitton : let me here , what one apparant reason or end , you are able to propound , for the continuance of miracles in these daies of the Gospel . Exorcistes . Alas sir , an vrgent necessity ( in these daies of atheisme ) requireth the same . Physiologus . Oh , then I perceiue , your iudgment concerning this matter , it iumpeth iustly with the rich mans in hel . For , he also ( being vtterly destitute of all other releefe ) did very instantly desire that Lazarus might foorth with be sent ▪ from the dead , to his fathers house ; to forewarne his fiue brethren of that place of torment . Seeing then you thus iumpe in your iudgements , I were loath you should iar in the answere : and therefore , do tel you plainely , that , the atheistes of our age , they haue Moses and the prophets , to testifie vnto them , the truth of such matters as concerne their saluation : whom if they wil not faithfully here and beleeue , neither would they beleeue at all , notwithstanding they should see a thousand strange miracles . Exorcistes . Yea , but such a miraculous expelling of satan by praier and fasting , it woulde ( notwithstanding all this ) verie powerfully silence the papists : who doe confidently affirme , that spirits and diuels cannot possible be driuen out by any the Protestant ministers . Physiologus . The papists and your selfe , it should seeme are in very great hope to delude the world afresh by your fained false miracles : and that makes you so earnestly to vrge the continuance of the gift of miracles : as though the same were yet still to be executed by some speciall persons . But , if they , or your selfe would either winne , or continue your credits by the working of miracles , you must not bring in those your counterfeit crankes , out of whom you woulde make vs beleeue , you haue coniured spirits and diuels , not vnlike to the possession of Mildred in Kent , 1574. nor to the miraculous restoring of Margaret Iesop againe to her limbes : not to the vision of the blacke dogge , with other like fables reported by Bristowe : but you must bring vs in , some such miracle-workers , as are able extempore , to talke with new toongs : to take away serpents : or , to drinke any deadly thing without danger : for so your credites might haply be deemed the greater : although yet , if you taught not the truth , we would take you for Antichrist . As for the Protestant Ministers , they neuer durst , nor now dare professe themselues to be miracle mongers . Both , because the doctrine they teach , it hath beene sufficiently and finallie confirmed before by the approoued miracles of Christ and his holie Apostles : and for that also , if there be yet still a continuance of any power in men for the working of miracles : that power ( they confesse ) it belongeth to Antichrist , and his Antichristian ministers , of whom they are precisely warned by Christ to beware . These therefore , they are seely poore causes ( you see ) to prooue the continuance of miracles . Exorcistes . But yet , the holy exercise of praier and fasting ( which with the prophane is so shamefully scorned ) it would ( by this , and such other like admirable actions ) be notablie confirmed . Orthodoxus . Why man , if praier and fasting , be an ancient true ordinance of the eternall God , then the truth there of was sufficiently confirmed before , by the vndoubted true miracles contained in the worde , so as it needeth not the accursed supplie of anie such patched and paltrie confirmations . Howbeit , if the same were a newe , and neuer knowne ordinance in the Primitiue Church : then surely all the fained miracles and signes in the world , woulde neuer be able , either to shelter the same from the scornes of the wicked , or to procure it estimation among the godly . In consideration whereof , you your owne selfe haue beene highly to blame ; thus badly to abuse so sacred an ordinance . For these your preposterous courses concerning the practise thereof , hath more hindred that holy and orderly exercise , then all the scornes of the vngodly could euer haue done : and therefore , forethinke it in time . Exorcistes . Should I forethinke me of that , which is so generally helde of all for an infallible truth ? yea , and ( which more is ) should I most cowardly disclaime that Christian cause , which manie great Diuines doe confidently holde , and haue so constantlie offred ( by publike disputation ) to vphold against all men ? Offring not onely to prooue the continuance of actuall possessions : but which more is , the perpetuall establishment of this selfesame continued meanes , for the powerfull expelling of spirits and diuels from time to time . Orthodoxus . If these matters were so generally held of all for an infallible truth : your selfe could neuer haue beene so iudicially conuented , nor so iustly conuicted a grosse male factour , for but putting an infallible truth in practise . As for the profered disputations by those your approoued Diuines ; I doe verily beleeue , that you haue borne your selfe much more bolde ( in presuming thus peartly vpon the proppe of their persons ) then your commission will warrant . Otherwise , those your great Diuines hauing heard long since ( at a Commencement in Cambridge ) this question disputed , and determined negatiuely : they might , and they would without doubt ( at some one time or other since then ) haue taken occasion ( either by disputation , by writing , or by preaching at least ) to mannage the truth of that matter , which so directly concerned their open pretended chalenge . Especially , if they either held the same an infallible truth : or , had so publikely offred a publike dispute , as you would beare vs in hand they haue done . And therefore , by this their so long continued silence , we must either account of your speech , as of a Canterburie tale : or at leastwaies imagine , that those your approoued Diuines , they haue had ( like good Christians ) their second cogitations , concerning the truth of your matters . For , we will neuer beleeue , that they would ( by any their purposed silence ) so vnconscionablie betray a professed infallible truth : especially , if they so approoued thereof as you tell vs they did . Howsoeuer , this ( I must tell you ) is a verie grosse , and a palpable folly ; namely , that you your selfe or anie man else , shoulde so confidently , and so fondlie relie vpon the persons of men , without any due triall or proofe of their spirits : because , great men they are not alwaies the wisest , neither doe the aged at all times vnderstand iudgement . For , howsoeuer there is a spirit in man : the inspiration of the almightie , it giueth men wisedome . Being therefore but a yoong Nouice my selfe , in regard of those great Diuines , and ancient Fathers : I doubted , and was a long time afraid to affoord my opinion . For I said , surely the daies shall speake , and the multitude of yeeres shall teach men wisedome . Howbeit , hauing a long time waited vpon their words , and perceiuing withall , that no one of those your great Diuines haue hitherto had in their mouthes any answere at all to reprooue your aduersaries , nor , found foorth their forcible reasons to mannage your cause : I was inwardly mooued to answere in my turne . For , I am full of matter : and the spirit within compelleth me . Therefore , now will I speake , that I may take my breath . Neither ( in speaking ) will I accept the persons of men : for feare ( if I should fondly giue titles to men ) my maker would sodainely take me away . Go to therefore Exorcistes , doe either shew vs more probable reasons for the perpetuall continuace of the miraculous faith : or grant now at length , that the same was long since determined . Exorcistes . I will neuer acknowledge the determination thereof : before it be better , and more directly prooued vnto me . Orthodoxus . Why man ? Christ hath put a finall end to the miraculous faith , as I tolde you before : and ( in ending the same ) he hath also establisht for euer , the faith of hearing . Yea , and which more is , the last miracle of all for confirmation of that faith to the worlde : was the death and resurrection of Christ : This his last miracle , the Apostles they sawe , and testifie vnto vs : so that now , there onely remaines a true faith in hearing , and beleeuing their testimonie , with a promised blessing of eternall saluation . Besides all this , of those onely true miracles which be purposely and truely put downe by the blessed Euangelists , were and are euermore fully and finally sufficient to confirme a true sauing faith to the world : then all other your supposed miracles since , they are that way meerely superfluous : but the first is true , and therefore also the later . Moreouer , if the working of miracles had beene truelie esteemed , and reputed necessarie indeed , for any one Church succeeding the Apostles age , then more especially necessarie for those new-sprong visible Churches , wherein the Gospell ( ouerwhelmed with ignorance ) was to be newly reuiued , through the extraordinarie preachings of some speciall persons , raised vp by the Lord , to that speciall busines , as , of Zuinglius , Hus , Oecolampadius , Luther , and Caluine . But , the working of miracles it was not in vse at all , in anie one of those visible Churches wherein they conuersed and preached ( as the papists report , and your selfe shall neuer be able to gainesay ) therefore , the working of miracles it is not perpetually necessarie , for any the visible Churches of God. In like manner , if the vse of miracles , had ( for any supposed respect ) beene necessarilie required in any one age of the world , since the daies of Christ , and his owne disciples , then , more especiallie necessarie for the Churches next , and immedidiately succeeding the Apostles themselues ; and thereupon also , the Apostle Saint Paul , he would vndoubtedly haue deliuered some Apostolicall canon , or Councell at least , concerning the perpetuitie , and orderly obseruation of that the supposed necessarie vse . But neither in his Epistle to Timothie or Titus , ( where he purposely handleth all offices and matters , any way concerning the ecclesiasticall discipline ) doth he make mention of one Canon , or Councell concerning the vse of miracles : therefore , the vse of miracles is not now necessarilie required at all , for the Churches of God. Furthermore , if the continua●ce of miracles might possibly be prooued in any the protestant churches since the Apostles daies : then , that one maine argument of the papists against our religion , for not beeing confirmed by miracles , were merely superfluous : for , they do flatly affirme that not one among vs , can work any miracles . Besides that , if the working of miracles be stil continued with the churches of Christ in these daies of the Gospel , then , one principall marke , for discerning the Antichristian churches from the true churches of Christ , would be mightely obscured , yea , euen vtterly extinguished : for , the Scriptures doe aduisedly , and purposely put downe the admirable effecting of false signes and woonders , as an essentiall , and vndoubted true marke , to discerne aright , the one from the other . Moreouer , if the doctrine of Christ and his owne Apostles be now sufficiently able , to make the man of God absolute & perfect to euerie good worke , without the working of miracles , then , the working of miracles for that purpose , is meerely superfluous . But , the first is vndoubtedly true : and therefore also the latter . In like maner , if the admirable effecting of miraculous actions , be a spirituall gift successiuely continued in the true Church of Christ , then it is verie probable , the same gift woulde haue beene purposely imposed vpon the pastor and Doctour , as an extraordinarie support to their ordinarie ministerie , and so , the said gift would haue beene carefully recorded among those other qualities and properties , which purposely concerne their ordinarie elections . But , no such gift is either required or recorded in any Ecclesiasticall Canon , that essentially concernes the ordinarie elections of pastors and doctours in these daies of the Gospell : therefore no such spirituall gift , is now successiuely continued in the true Churches of Christ. Furthermore , if the working of miracles , be such a spirituall gift , as is necessarilie required in some one or a fewe , for the further edification and comfort of the whole Church of Christ : then , the Apostle Paul , he woulde vndoubtedly haue exhorted the Corinthians ( among other like spirituall gifts ) to haue laboured likewise for that . But , he maketh no mention of that gift at all : and therefore that is no such spirituall gift , as is now necessarilie required in any , for the further edification and comfort of the whole Church of Christ. Againe , the miraculous expelling of spirits and diuels , was but a temporarie and personall priuiledge , and , is purposely raunged among those selfesame personall priuiledges , which ( by the foreseeing wisedome of God ) were long since determined : and therefore , it is a follie of follies , for any to imagine , that the miraculous expelling of spirits and diuels , should not ( in like maner ) be determined long since as well as the rest . Brieflie , the vniforme consent of all Christian Churches , and the approoued iudgement of soundest Diuines doe generallie accord and conclude , that the working of miracles is ceased long since . By al the premisses , I hope you may see it apparantly prooued , that , the working of miracles was ceased long since : and therefore I doubt not at all , but that , the verie force of your owne enlightned conscience , will compell you , foorthwith to subscribe to the determination thereof . Exorcistes . Let me heare the iudgement of your sound Diuines concerning this matter . Orthodoxus . With verie good will. And because the night is farre spent : I will affoord you the testimonie of some fower , or fiue in stead of the rest . 1 First therefore , Augustine telleth you thus . Vnlesse you see signes and woonders , you will not beleeue . Heerein ( saith he ) the Lord endeuoureth to lift vp the mindes of the faithfull , so farre beyond the visible view of all mutable things : as hee would not haue them , so much as once to enquire after the externall contemplation of any true miracles , notwithstanding they should be wrought by the Lord himselfe . 2 In another place he saith thus . These miraculous actions , they are not permitted to any in these daies of the Gospel , least the mind should be alwaies enquiring after visible things : and for feare that men should grow cold , by the continued custome of those selfesame admirable matters , whose onely nouelties , ( at the first ) did set them on fire . 3 Chrysostome , he saith thus . There be some in our daies , that aske why signes and woonders , are not now also effected by Christians ? Surely , if thou beleeuest aright , if thou louest Christ in such sort as he is to be loued , thou shalt stand in no need of miracles : for , miracles are giuen to them that beleeue not . 4 In another place thus . The working of miracles , is now ceased with christians , and found especially among such as are counterfeite christians : for , vnto Antichrist is giuen power , to work lying signes and woonders with men . 5 Againe , he saith thus . The working of miracles in times past was vndoubtedly necessary : but , now it is not so . 6 The ordinary glosse saith thus . If we work not miracles now : is it , because we want faith ? not so . The working of miracles in the very first spring of the church , was woonderfull necessary , to confirme the true faith : but , that faith once confirmed , they are now , no more necessary . 7 Lyra saith thus . In the primitiue church , the true sauing faith , it was to be nourished , and confirmed by miracles : and therefore , the gratious gift of miracles not onely , was very freely bestowed vpon the apostles themselues , but , eftsoones also , vpon many simple beleeuers . 8 Hugo saith thus . Miracles ( in the first sprout of the church ) were woonderfull necessary for the nourishment of faith : howbeit , not now necessary at all , because the true faith is already , very fully confirmed . And therefore now ( in stead of signes and woonders ) the good works of professours must freely breake foorth , to make their holy profession more resplendent and shining . 9 Isidore , he saith thus . The working of miracles must vtterly cease , before the manifestation of antichrist : to the end , that ( by such the churches supposed basenesse in comparison of those former miraculous seasons ) antichrist him selfe , might the more boldly presume to persecute some vnto death . For euen therefore , there must necessarily appeare in the christian churches , such an externall basenesse by the ceasing of miracles : that the patience of persecuted saints might more cleerely shine foorth : the inconstancy of scandalized reprobates , more euidently appeare : and the cruelty of bloudy persecutours , become more outragious . 10 Maister Beza saith thus : That oyle wherewith the sicke persons were specially annointed , it was an vndoubted true signe of the admirable power of God : and , no ordinarie medicine , for the curing of mens maladies . Seeing therefore , the speciall gift of such a miraculous curing is ceased long since : to what ende should the ceremonie thereof , bee yet still so fondly retayned ? 11 Maister Caluin saith thus . Seeing the true miracles effected by Christ , and written downe authentically by the blessed Euangelists , are fully sufficient to confirme the true sauing faith : those men whatsoeuer , who ( for any other respect ) would foist in new miracles , they shew themselues wicked , and such curious braines , as ( not contenting themselues with eternall saluation ) doe desire to leape beyond the limits and bounds of the kingdome of heauen . 12 In the Bee-hyue , it is thus written . The Prophets and Apostles , they had a speciall gift for the working of miracles , and driuing out of diuels to confirme their preaching thereby : and therefore , they ioyned to that selfesame gift , some apparant ceremonie or signe , as may plainely appeare . Howbeit , that power being ceased long since : the signe also , it must cease with the power . 13 D. Cooper saith thus . The working of miracles now , it would shake very shreudly , the certeinty of that truth which we preach : because ( being confirmed afresh by miracles ) it should now be confirmed by that selfesame deceiueable meanes , which is wholy reserued to Antichrist . Yea , and it woulde mightily strengthen the Papists , & giue them an aduantage against vs : by making them in this sort to obiect and say . If the Gospel you teach , be the vndoubted truth : why do you confirme so sacred a truth , by that selfesame meanes which you so sharpely condemne in vs ? But if the Gospell you preach , be an inueterate falshood : why then do you shewe your selues to be Antichrists , in thus laboring ( as you doe ) to confirme your inueterate falshood , by such deceaueable signes and woonders ? 14 Doctor Fulke saith thus . There is nowe , no such ordinarie function in the Church of God , that men shoulde haue power to cast out diuels , more then to heale al manner of diseases , speake with newe toongs which they neuer learned , or , to worke other miracles . Which spirituall gifts , God gaue in the beginning of the preaching of the Gospell , to confirme the credit thereof among the Iewes and Gentiles , but , of long time haue ceased among Christians : who are nowe to be directed by Gods worde , whereunto also their profession doth binde them to giue credit , without any further confirmation by miracles , then that which is testified vnto them in the holie Scriptures . 15 Againe , he saith thus . We know the gift of miracles is ceased long since in the Church : and we meane not to counterfeit that gift , as you doe , and haue done . Our faith being approoued by the Scriptures , is confirmed by al the miracles of Christ , and his Apostles , exprest in the Scriptures . 16 Briefly , Master Dearing saith thus . We know very wel that all the miracles of God , were giuen to confirme his worde : other signes or woonders then those , neither we , nor our fathers haue knowne . And now , that the vse of miracles is fully performed vnto vs , and we doe beleeue the Gospell , in token that our faith is freely accepted with God : he hath taken awaie signes and woonders from vs , which serued vs fitly before , when we were vnbeleeuers . And surely , our faith is neuer so honorable , nor we so highly in the fauour of God : as when we haue saide both to heauen and earth , we seeke no signes from you . Or , when the worde of God hath such a perswasion in our harts : that we haue now taken fast hold of all the good promises of the Gospell , and saide vnto miracles , get you hence . The Iewes seeke a signe ( saith Paul ) surely , we that be Christians seeke for none . When they were offred of God , he shewed his compassion vpon our infirmities : but now that he hath taken them away , he bestoweth a greater mercie , in accepting our faith . Let vs hearken therefore to the worde of Christ : for , by it we shall liue . If we beleeue not his worde , neither would we beleeue all the miracles in the worlde : though dead men doe arise and preach them vnto vs. Behold now Exorcistes , you haue heer● a graund-iurie impannelled concerning this point : what saie you vnto them ? Exorcistes . I know not well what to thinke of them . Orthodoxus . If you either doubt of their credits , or suspect their consciences ; you may haue a tales among these that follow . Namely , Peter Martyr , Iohn Caluin , Musculus , Bullenger , Gualter , Erasmus Sarcerius , with sundrie other besides : who all do iointly and confidently auouch the ceasing of miracles in these daies of the Gospell . Exorcistes . I challenge no one of your former Iurours : but doe iointly hold them for good men and true . Orthodoxus . Are you then content , to submit to their censure ? Exorcistes . Not before I haue heard their verdict . Orthodoxus . Well then , Augustine ( you see ) hee is the foreman of the Iurie : let him therefore ( if you please ) deliuer vp the verdict , for himselfe , and the rest . Exorcistes . That liketh me maruelous well . Orthodoxus . This then is that which he saith for him selfe , and his fellowes concerning these matters . Away with those fained miracles of lying men : or rather , those woonders wrought , by enchaunting diuels . Exorcistes . This I am sure is a partiall verdict , suggested before , by some sinister meanes : and therefore , I will either sue foorth an attaint against the whole iury , or remoue the iudgement , by a writ of errour . Orthodoxus . Oh , I pray you be patient : and let the verdict passe currantly , without your coutroulement . Exorcistes . What reason haue you , to perswade me to that ? Orthodoxus . Tertullian doth yeeld you the reason thereof . Because , Christ ( saith Tertullian ) hath vndoubtedly taught vs : that , the faith of signes and woonders , ( which are easily effected by false Christs and hypocrites ) is very rash , and vncerteine . Exorcistes . This reason , concernes onely the good of the soule . Physiologus . We hope man , you haue that in far greater regard , then , either the credit of your person : or the welfare of your worldly estate . Exorcistes . Though that be certeinely so : yet the other also , it must be respected . Physiologus . Very true . Howbeit , because you are carried to much a way with carnal respects : let Hippocrates his reason suffice for that course , who saith thus . Those persons which boast , that they can cure , or remooue the infections of maladies , by sacrifices , coniurations , inuocations , enchantments , & such other like magical meanes , they are but beggerly and needy companions , wanting promotion or mainteinance . And , for this onely respect , they refer their speech to the diuel : because , they would be thought , to know somewhat more then the vulgar sort . Loe this is Hipocrates reason . Exorcistes . I way not his reason , a rush . Physiologus . Neuer say so for shame : least you make men imagine that you neither respect your credit , nor conscience . Exorcistes . Men may imagine what pleaseth themselues : howbeit , the Lord alone , he knoweth the hart . Lycanthropus . Good Exorcistes , be not too singular . Exorcistes . Why man , I may doe nothing against the truth but for the truth . Pneumatomachus . Wel , wel , be not wedded too much , to your wil : neither doe make ( I beseech you ) an idle of your owne wit. Exorcistes . I hope sir , I am nether wilfull nor foolishly wise : whatsoeuer your selfe , or some others imagine . Physiologus . Then would you not be so wise ( as you are ) in your owne conceit : but rather yeeld and submit to a more dexteritie . Exorcistes . Alasse sir , I haue not hetherto heard any such sound dexteritie , to submit me vnto . Orthodoxus . Well , well Exorcistes , there is something that sticks in your stomacke , which makes you so loath to relent : it is not I hope , a vaineglorious conceit of your selfe . Whatsoeuer it be , we will hope the best . Let vs therefore giue ouer for the present , and goe take our naturall sleepe . It may be ( when you haue taken counsell at your pillow ) you will change your opinion . If therefore it seemeth good to your selfe , I will spend with you againe one hower more in the morning before you depart , and giue you the best directions I can . In the meane time , I wish you good rest , and betake you all ( bodie and soule ) to the gratious protection and prouidence of the Almightie . Physiologus . Come then , let vs arise and depart . The end of the tenth Dialogue . The eleuenth Dialogue . THE ARGVMENT . A summarie Recapitulation of all the premisses , concludently repeating , and proouing the precedent purpose : with a patheticall perswasion to subscribe to the truth thereof . The speakers names . PHILOLOGVS . LYCANTHROPVS . PNEVMATOMACHVS . PHYSIOLOGVS . ORTHODOXVS . EXORCISTES . Orthodoxus . GOod morow to you all , my deere brethren : what newes I beseech you , from Exorcistes this morning ? Lycanthropus . Surely sir , ( so farre as we can perceiue ) his Euen-song and Morne-song , they are one and the same . Neuertheles , we haue ( by our vrgent , and often entreaties ) preuailed so much with the man , as that he is nowe exceedingly willing to accept of your Christian offer , concerning one halfe howers conference before our departure : and is heere come for that purpose . Orthodoxus . The Lords name be blessed for this your good newes . For surely , so long as he will not obstinately refuse to conferre : there may be great hope of his happie conuersion . Come on therefore Exorcistes , what say you to our matters this morning ? A verdict : or no verdict ? Exorcistes . No verdict at all : for any thing hitherto heard . Orthodoxus . Oh , then I perceiue you haue either careleslie ouerslipped ; or not carefully obserued those things which you heard : and therefore , it shall not be amisse , verie succinctly to recapitulate the whole course of our conference . That ( by this meanes ) the matters themselues being fitly reduced to your remembrance afresh : you may either be constrained to consent to the truth , or be otherwise destitute of all excuse , by hauing one , and the selfesame truth , now the second time testified to you . For in the mouth of two or three witnesses , the truth of these matters , they must be so iudicially , and so firmely established , as , all the sworne aduersaries thereof , may Iudasly be ashamed , and finally confounded . Exorcistes . Well sir : goe an end in your purpose . Orthodoxus . With verie good will. Wherein you must call to remembrance , how that ( vpon the verie first entrance into these our Dialogicall discourses ) we tooke a due consideration of the essentiall being of spirits and diuels : and then next of their vndoubted dominion or power . That there are essentiall spirits and diuels , we prooued directly from their essentiall creations , and effectuall operations : answering withall , those beastly anthropomorphites , and swinish Saduces , who ( in these our daies ) doe impudently denie , that , there is either Angell or diuell . And this ( in effect ) was the summe of our first conference . Exorcistes . It was so , I confesse . Orthodoxus . The next , ( concerning the vndoubted dominion or power of the diuell ) it was likewise apparantly prooued ; that spirits and diuels , they haue no such possession in men , as the world doth fondly imagine . Both , because the worde ( possession ) is no where ( in any such sense ) to be found throughout the whole Bible : & for that also , if the same were so to be found , yet must it be taken metaphorically , for , so onely the Scriptures doe demonstrate their nature , operation , and power vnto vs. Admitting you therefore , the worde possession in a metaphoricall meaning : wee confessed that selfesame dominion or power of spirits and diuels , to be two-fold . Namely , either a power of possession : or a power of obsession . By their power of possession , we vnderstood that their authenticall authoritie , iurisdiction , or interest , which they vsurpingly ( by the operatiue permission of God ) doe exercise ouer some speciall men , in afflicting , tormenting , and vexing their persons . And , this their saide power of possession , it must needes be ( we told you ) either reall , or actuall . By the reall possession , ( we tolde you ) was ment an essentiall , or personall entring in men : the which we vtterlie reiected as a palpable vntruth , absurd in Philosophie , and vnsound in Diuinitie , as by vnanswerable arguments , authenticall authorities , and plaine euidence of Scripture was apparantly prooued vnto you . Telling you further , that , if such a reall possession be granted , the same must be either a mentall , or corporall possession . The real-ment all possession we flatly denied . Because else the possessed mans minde , it must needs be a locall-receptacle , essentially , and substantially comprehending the diuell for the present : which ( by the verie swaie of arguments , the authoritie of writers , and plaine euidence of Scriptures ) we fully confuted . And this also ( in effect ) was the verie summe or scope of our second conference . Exorcistes . I remember it well . Orthodoxus . Then next , concerning the reall-corporall possession , that also we reiected , as fond and friuolous : it being a matter neuer purposed by the Lord himselfe , in the first creation of bodies . For , else the minde it selfe must be vniustly charged , to answere all those her animall , and organicall operations , which ( without any her consent , and approbation ) are violently enforced vpon the possessed mans bodie : or , if ( the possessed himselfe being freed from those operations ) the diuell alone should be called to account for the guilt of those actions , then something ( concerning the possessed himselfe ) should be acted by him to no purpose . Besides that , such a real corporall possession ( the diuell being onely a spirituall substance ) cannot possiblie be perceiued of the possessed himselfe , but onely effectiuely : and therefore there can be no sensible perceiuance of any such essentiall possession , vnlesse we retaine the Platonists opinion , concerning corporall diuels . A thing directly opposite to reason , to the testimonie of writers : and the plaine euidence of sacred Scriptures . And , this also ( as I take it ) was in effect , the summe of our third conference . Exorcistes . I may with no good conscience denie it . Orthodoxus . Then next ( because your selfe so earnestly insisted vpon the reall corporall possession ) it was further declared vnto you , that ( if the same should be granted ) the diuels then , they must necessarily haue such a kinde of possession , either by assuming to themselues some true naturall bodie : or , by transforming themselues into some true naturall bodie at least . Their assuming of true naturall bodies wee flatly reiected , as an opinion too too vnreasonable , absurd , and most senslesse : whether we vnderstand the same of bodies created before , or of bodies , then foorthwith to be created . And that therefore the diuell his tempting of Euah by the Serpent , the Angell his deliuerie of a sensible speech , by Baalam his Asse , the diuell his supposed assuming of Samuels bodie , with such other examples and Scriptures , which verie manie doe most ignorantly vrge for this matter : they are too too grosly and fondly abused , as we prooued vnto you by arguments , by writers , and by the sacred scriptures . And this also ( if I be not fowly deceiued ) was in effect the summe of our fourth conference . Exorcistes . I dare not denie any part thereof . Orthodoxus . Then next ( for the diuell his transforming of himselfe into any true naturall bodie ) we declared vnto you , the impossibilitie , and most palpable absurditie thereof , notwithstanding the Sorcerers rods transformed as you thought ) into true naturall serpents , the supposed transfiguring of Nebuchad-nezzer into an oxe , with such other examples . Shewing you withall ( by the conference of places ) that , that place of Scripture which speaketh of Satan his transforming of himselfe into an Angell of light , was misunderstood of the most . Neither may the same , or any like places of scripture , be litterally vnderstood of any essential transformations ; because that work was neuer in the power of a diuel . No , he cannot possibly transforme him selfe into any true forme whatsoeuer , if Christ his argument ( concerning the non visibility , and palpability of spirits and diuels ) be without contradiction : which it could not be , if the diuel was able ( but onely in outward appearance ) to transforme him selfe into any true forme whatsoeuer , as wee proued by reason , by fathers , and by the canonicall scriptures . And this also , was ( in effect ) the summe of our fift conference . Exorcistes . I wil ( at no hand ) contradict your report . Orthodoxus . Hauing thus dispatched the supposed real possession of spirits and diuels : we entred then into a like serious consideration of their actuall possession : shewing you first , what it was : and then next , the seuerall parts thereof . Namely , either , a mentall afflicting and greeuing : or , a corporall tormenting and vexing . We shewed you further , that this actuall possession , was onely in vse in the daies of Christ and of his disciples . Howbeit , the maine ends thereof ( namely , the declaration of Christ his deity , and the confirmation of his glorious Gospel ) being in those daies very effectually accomplished : the possession also , it was ( by our Sauiour himselfe ) verie fully , and finallie determined . Yea , and the determination of this actuall possession we confidently auouched , notwithstanding any one matter pretended by you , for the perpetuitie thereof : as was directly prooued by force of argument , by the plaine testimonie of ancient writers , and the ineuitable euidence of the sacred Scriptures . And this ( in effect ) was the summe of our sixth conference . Exorcistes . It was vndoubtedly so as you say . Orthodoxus . And then next ( because you insisted still vpon the perpetuitie of actuall possession , by an argument drawne from common experience in all that beheld your supposed action , wrought at Mahgnitton ) wee prooued directly vnto you , that this their supposed experiēce , it could be accoūted no currant experience in deed . Both , because manie like admirable matters may be demonstrated from meere naturall causes , effects , and diseases : and for that also , a meere naturall experience ( when the same is brought to the best ) it may be no competent Iudge in such supernaturall matters . A thing opposite to Diuinitie , to Philosophie , to Physicke , to Nature , to Lawe , and to Conscience , as may verie plainely appeere : whether we respect the action it selfe , or the manner of doing the same . Then after all this , we came to entreate of Satan his power of obsession : which consisteth especially , in an outward assaulting and circumuenting , or , in an inward suggesting and tempting . And this also in effect , was the summe of our seuenth conference . Exorcistes . The whole truth thereof , is without contradiction . Orthodoxus . Hauing thus handled the power of spirits and diuels whatsoeuer : we came next to entreat of that extraordinarie working power , whereby their saide power was subdued . Shewing you directly , that the same was either immediate in Christ the stronger : or mediate , in some certeine speciall persons , extraordinarily mooued to that selfesame busines . Againe , the mediate power we told you , it was either Apostolicall , I meane , in the Apostles themselues , an admirable extraordinarie good meanes , to confirme their extraordinary preachings : or else Ecclesiasticall , that is , in the seuentie Disciples , and some others succeeding . And that therefore this Ecclesiasticall power , it was more especially to be considered againe , in respect either of the Churches primitiue : the Churches I meane more immediately succeeding the Apostles themselues : or in the Churches successiue at the least . And heere we handled at large the continuance , and compasse of that Ecclesiasticall power : declaring plainely vnto you , that this selfesame Ecclesiasticall power ( howsoeuer most egerly attempted , and apishly imitated of some in euerie age ) it consisted not in anie created , or meere naturall meanes whatsoeuer , neither yet , in the onely bare practise of praier and fasting : as was sufficientlie shewed by force of reason , authoritie of writers , and the apparant euidence of canonicall Scriptures . And this also in effect was the summe of our eight conference . Exorcistes . You haue very faithfully abstracted the same . Orthodoxus . Then next , for the practise of praier and fasting , we prooued directly vnto you , that , the same was neuer put downe by Christ as any ordinarie perpetuall meanes , for the powerfull expelling of diuels . That , if any such power shoulde effectually proceed from the practise thereof : The same must needs be either a vocall , or a personall power at the least . The vocall power we reiected as too too 〈…〉 The personal power , we tolde you , it must more especially proceede , from either the partie who praieth : or the partie that is praied vnto . The partie that praieth , we told you , he hath no such personall power : howsoeuer you laboured to support that opinion , from a personal power in Christ. The partie that is praied vnto ( namely the Lord ) although he vndoubtedly hath such an absolute supernaturall power , as is able foorthwith to effect such a worke : yet , the participating therewith must needs be effected by the timely apprehension , either of a iustifying or miraculous faith . The apprehension of that power , by the meanes of a iustifying faith we flatly denied , it being an opinion too too preposterous , as we shewed you by reasons , by writers , & by the canonical scriptures . And this in effect was the summe of our ninth conference . Exorcistes . It were too to absurd for my selfe to denie it . Orthodoxus Then next , for the effectuall apprehending of that selfe-same supernaturall power of God by the onely meanes of a miraculous faith : that apprehension also , we flatly refuted . Telling you first , what true miracles are . And declaring withall , that this your supposed action wrought at Mahgnitton , if it were in such sort effected , as you beare vs in hand : then surely ( howsoeuer you would cunningly suppresse the appearance thereof by your new coyned distinction of mirandum and miraculum ) the same vndoubtedly it was a true miracle . And that therefore , either you must vtterly disclaime the whole action it selfe , as a meere sophisticall practize of some : or acknowledge ( at least ) that you effected a miracle . Which ( we told you ) you might in no wise auouch : because the working of miracles was long since determined . All which we prooued directly by the verie sway of argument , by a grand-Iurie of ancient fathers : and by the vnmeasurable true euidence of the canonicall scriptures . And this in effect , was the verie true summe ( as I take it ) not only of our tenth conference , but of all these our dialogical discourses . Tell vs therefore directly your answere vnto them . Exorcistes . My answere in few words is this : I cannot gainesay the vndoubted truth of any your summarie abridgements of these Dialogicall discourses . Orthodoxus . Seeing then you haue hitherto heard , that the word ( possession ) is not any where to be found ( respecting this Question ) in all the Canonicall scriptures . Seeing , albeit such possession of spirits and diuels should be admitted in an onely metaphoricall meaning , yet there was neuer any reall , but onely an actuall possession : seeing such actuall possession was onely but temporarie for some speciall respects , and long since , euen actually also determined by Christ : seeing moreouer , that the dispossessing of spirits and Diuels ( whatsoeuer , and by whomsoeuer attempted ) was euermore effected by an extraordinarie power of the Lord either immediately or mediately : Seeing the mediate power was onely peculiar , and peculiarly applied by some speciall persons for speciall respects : seeing that power is now finally restrayned from men , because those the former respects are fully accomplished : seeing also the working of miracles is ceased long since : briefly , seeing the improbable affirmation of any thing opposite to any the precedent points , is not onely absurd in Philosophie , but also vnsound in Diuinitie , as hath beene declared at large : we doubt not , but that the truth of the premisses ( breaking foorth now as it doth , like the Sunne in his strength ) the same will now be so pretious in your eies , and so far forth preuaile with your iudgement at least , as that ( in an holy approbation thereof ) you will willingly submit and subscribe to the same . Exorcistes . Nay sir , howsoeuer I doe happily iumpe with your selfe in the soundnes of iudgements concerning the sound truth of euerie thing handled before : yet may I by no meanes submit to your motion for many respects . Orthodoxus . What man ? doe neuer say so for shame . Shall any respects ( how substantiall soeuer in outward appearance ) so much ouerswaie your enlightened iudgement , as that they should foorthwith enforce your vnruly affections against your owne conscience , against the common consent of writers , yea and which more is , against an apparant truth ? God forbid that so grosse a corruption should euer discouer it selfe . But goe to lay open vnto vs those selfesame respects . Exorcistes . First , by such a submission , I should be discredited much , be deemed too to inconstant , yea , & accounted but a cowardly dastard : in , now growing wearie vnder that selfesame crosse , which I haue hitherto , so confidently , and so couragiously endured . Orthodoxus . Oh , now I perceiue , what hath hitherto with held you from submitting your selfe to authority : namely the paltry respect of your worldly estimation . But , goe to , let vs soundly examine the seueral points of this your primary respect . First therefore ( concerning your supposed discredit , by such an holy submission ) doe know this I beseech you , and beleeue it for certeine , that , it is vndoubtedly a good Christians praise before God , and his church , to cease to do euil , and to learne to do well : and which more is , to submit him selfe , his senses , his reason , his wil , and all his affections to a sounder dexteritie in all things , and to bee onelie constant in that which is good . As for valour and courage , we must hold this for infallible truth ; namely , that onely in good matters , it is good to be feruent and zealous , whether the Apostle ( I meane any of the godly ) be present , or absent . Yea , and to be highly ashamed of the ignorance of your owne soule : but , not ashamed at all , to submitte to the truth . As for constancy vnder the crosse , consider . I pray you , whether that which you suffer , be the true crosse of Christ , or a iust scourge for your sinnes . There were three ( you know ) on the crosse at once : the first a sauiour , the second to be saued , the third to be damned . All these , they endured the selfesame paine , but , did not all vndergoe the selfesame cause . So then , it is not the martyrdome it selfe , but , the cause of the martyrdome that maketh a martyr . You are not therefore , simply to reioice in suffering : but ; in suffering especially for righteousnesse sake . And , who is it ( I pray you ) that can harme you at all , if only you follow the thing that is good ? On the other side , what praise is it vnto you , if , when you be iustly buffetted for your owne faultes ( as herein you haue been ) you take it patiently ? But , if when you do wel ( which vndoubtedly you should do in yeelding submission ) if then ( I say ) you suffer euil vndeserued ( by vndergoing with patience , the cynical censures of some giddy conceitours ) this is thankworthy and acceptable before the Maiesty of our eternall God. And therefore , this your primary respect for not submitting your selfe : it is ( you see ) very fond , and preposterous . Exorcistes . Yea , but by this my submission , I should giue our aduersaries great occasion , to insult ouer the brethren afresh in farre better causes then this : as we found by experience , how highly they triumphed ouer the intended discipline of late , by reason of Hackets , Arthingtons and Copingers seductions . Orthodoxus . If your owne dealings , in these your preposterous courses , doe as deepely discredit the holy ordinance of praier and fasting , as Hackets seduction disgraced ( in the iudgement of some ) the entended church discipline : I hope then you will neuer account , much lesse entitle them aduersaries to sincere religion ( howsoeuer opposite to these your practises ) that shal seeke , by due meanes to suppresse the irregularity of your intemperate humour . Otherwise , if these your disordered attempts haue ministred iust occasion for any to insult ouer the brethren ( as you say ) afresh , in far better causes then this : when you see such fearfull effects to follow your fooleries , you may neuer blame the insulters themselues , but your owne indiscretion . Howsoeuer , I do aduise you in all loue , to reckon this late-giuen occasion as the very principall among the rest of your sins : and , make it a perpetuall meanes , to your better humiliation before God and men . As for the inconsiderate and vnchristian insultings of any , ouer good and Christian causes ; let not their euil dealings that way , make you to constant in euil . Exorcistes . But yet sir , by this so vnseasonable a submission of mine , I should scandalize the zealous professours , and offend sundry honorable , and noble personages , both Lords and Ladies , with diuerse others of good estimation : who ( fauouring rightly the reformation ) haue mightely affected my cause , and bountifully mainteined my person and state . Orthodoxus . Your conscionable reiecting of an inueterate error , and your zealous entertaining of a newly reuealed truth , can , euer scandalize such sincere professours , as are zealously , and rightly religious . As for offending any honorable personages or others in any account , who ( wishing reformation ) haue hetherto affected your cause and mainteined your person : know this , and know it for truth , that if those honorable personages ( euen in a sincere regard of some holy reformation ) haue hitherto affected your cause , so far foorth at the least , as they supposed the same to be sound and good : then , doubt not at all , but that they wil much more affect your holy and hoped conuersion , so soone especially , as their enlightned iudgements shall once but soundly perceiue the infallible truth . Yea and which more is , they will then be much more forewards in supporting your person and state , then euer before . Otherwise , those your maintainers , they might be supposed to affect your cause , and to support your person , in an onelie malcontentednes , rather against the persons of some in authoritie , then in any true mindednes towards reformation indeed . And which more is , you your owne selfe ( by persisting as you doe in your errour ) you may be supposed of all ( as you are shrewdly suspected of some ) to be rather their humorist in an onely respect of their hier : then anie their approoued martialist to mannage these matters , in any right reuerend regard of their honours . This therefore ( you see ) is but a sielie respect , to hold you from such an holy submission . Exorcistes . Yea , but by such my submission , I shoulde foorthwith depriue my selfe from all Ecclesiasticall functions . For , this is held an vndoubted truth , among the preciser sort , that a man so groslie falne , doth make foorthwith , a flat nullitie of his former ministerie . Orthodoxus . Put the case , that some ( concerning this point ) are much more peeuishly precise , then prudently wise : will you therefore ( in an onely regard of their itching humours ) refuse to do good to your selfe and manie others of more temperate spirits ? For , tell me I praie you , who is able to make a flat nullitie in any mans ministerie : but , he alone who enableth and calleth whomsoeuer he will to the ministerie . Exorcistes . Verie true as you say , ( respecting simplie his gifts and graces ) there is none able to make a flat nullitie in anie mans ministerie , saue onely the Lord. Howbeit ( respecting the orderly execution and vse of those gifts ) the Church , she may , and she ought to make a flatte nullitie in the ministerie of such are groslie falne . Orthodoxus . If there be none other stoppage at all , to this your submission , but onely the feare of forgoing your ministerie , this feare I hope , it may soone be remooued . For , if none but the Lord , be able to disable your gifts , then none without warrant from the Lord , is able to disable the orderly execution and vse of your gifts . But no such warrant haue anie from the Lord in all the Bible . Besides that , if the Lord bestoweth and continueth his gracious gifts in anie ( being orderly called before to the ministerie ) for the edification of others : who may without warrant , disanull , and discontinue the orderly execution and vse of those gracious gifts , in anie ( being orderly continued in the ministerie ) for the edification of others . For , if vnfained repentance doth set an offendour in statu quo prius , in his former estate , with God and man , notwithstanding any his former offences : why should not an vnfained repentance , set a poore minister ( being falne by occasion ) in statu quo prius , in his former estate with God and man , for the orderly vse of his ministerie , notwithstanding anie his former offences ? Otherwise , why did not the Church in former times disanull and discontinue the orderly execution and vse of gifts , in Dauid , in Peter , in Paul , in Iohn Marke , in Demas , and diuers other both ordinarie , and extraordinarie persons . In all whom did breake foorth no lesse apparant disorders then this one of yours : & yet ( the Lord continuing in them his gracious gifts ) the Church still enioyed the vse of those gifts . Discharge you therefore a good conscience , by testifying truely your vnfained submission : and then , if the Ecclesiasticall gouernors ( vpon aduised deliberation ) shall deeme it conuenient to emploie you afresh in the vse of your gifts : let those your preciser sort , set vpon them ( if they please ) for such their imployment of one so groslie offending . In the meane time let those precise ones beware , least ( in this ouer nice a conceit ) they do fall ( before they beware ) into the Luciferian heresie : and be your selfe perswaded of this , that ( notwithstanding these their owle-like hooings and scrikings in corners ) you shall finde me verie readie to ioyne with you in this point against them all : Let them make publike triall thereof , whensoeuer they please . Exorcistes . Alas sir , by such my submission , I should vtterly depriue my selfe and my familie from all maner of maintenance . For , not onely I am made destitute alreadie of my former place : but which more is , I being by this my humble submission discouered , and discredited with the Church of God : what hope of future preferment ? Orthodoxus . Howsoeuer your late practises haue iustly depriued you from all present supplies for your maintenance : Let neither the feare of such want ; nor the needlesse distrust of any discredit in respect of your humble submission , be any meanes to withhold you from the dutifull discharge of a Christian conscience . No , no , be you rather assured of this , that your obstinate holding out with a setled pertinacie in this your peeuish opinion , it will more discredit you with the true Church of Christ , then your humble submission would do , by a thousand degrees . Neither , let any falslie supposed feare of future wants , withhold you herein : both because true repentance depriues not a man from the fauour of God , or his fatherly prouidence , but bindeth them so much the more firmely vnto him : and for that also , this your refusall to yeeld , in an onely feare of some falslie supposed wants , it would but confirme that hard conceit which many haue had against you of late . Who doe generally giue it foorth , that ( howsoeuer you cannot but perceiue your fault concerning these matters ) you will neuer be brought to acknowledge the same . Because ( in standing thus stoutly as you do to your tackling , ) you do get better maintenance by your imprisonment , then you could otherwaies gaine by your enlargement . And therefore , if it were for none other cause else , but , to take away occasion from such as seeke for occasion to depraue the holie profession , doe you foorthwith submit your selfe to the truth . Exorcistes . Sir , although ( notwithstanding those the former respects ) I should willingly submit my selfe to authoritie , yet then this vile inconuenience woulde folow thereof , namely , by that meanes , I should be reputed to be in some practise at least with the yoongman at Mahgnitton , with Katherine Wright , with the boy of Burton , and with many other besides . Orthodoxus . Surely , I cannot perceiue how your standing out , shoulde possiblie free you from that suspicion with men , if once they but reade Master Harsnets booke , concerning your authenticall conuention , and publike conuiction : and those also exactly performed , in an orderly course , and a iudiciall proceeding , if the things he reporteth , be reputed for truthes . The which also we must be perswaded they are : vnles haply we do fondly imagine , that the Commissioners themselues ; the Register also , being a sworne publike Notarie : the yoongman at Mahgnitton : the seuerall deponents being orderly deposed , and secretly examined apart : yea , and you your owne selfe , vpon your corporall oath , were all ( iointly , and by one vniforme consent ) confederate togither , to finde your selfe giltie concerning the causes and circumstances , so iudicially propounded and prosecuted . And therefore , vnlesse you be throughly able to discredit that course , as a matter but forged , false , and erronious : your standing out ( as you do ) in the premisses , it will rather aggrauate then lessen your fault : and apparantly demonstrate a badde disposition , both purposely perpetrating , and peeuishly persisting in euill . Exorcistes . Your selfe then it should seeme , is fully perswaded , that I , and the boie ( by a precompacted confederacie ) haue purposely deluded and coosened the world . Orthodoxus . How some others esteeme of it , I know not : for my owne part ( I assure you ) I am verie farre from such a suspicion . Yea , and this also I dare say for so many besides , as haue beene acquainted with your former sinceritie and vpright cariage : they are euerie of them , free from such a perswasion . This onely is that which we entertaine , and verie confidently hold for a truth . Namely , that the gracelesse boy , did gracelesly counterfeite , and knauishly beare the world in hand , he was really possessed of Satan : when there was no such matter at all . But concerning your owne selfe , we do vndoubtedly thinke , that you being fully perswaded of the perpetuitie of reall possessions , as also , most strongly deluded with an erronious opinion of your owne abilitie for the powerfull dispossessing of diuels by prayer and fasting : did thereupon simply vndertake that trifling worke . This then is our opinion concerning your selfe in the action : namely , that the same was simply your errour in iudgement , but no purposed errour in your practize at all . This is that we would haue you reuoke : and this is that wherin we would haue you submit your selfe to authoritie . And why should you not willingly yeeld to the same ? Thinke you it impossible for your selfe to be deluded by the diuell : or to be deceiued at all by a cogging companion ? Was not the reuerend father Maister Foxe , and many others besides , as grosly beguiled by such counterfeit crankes as euer was you with this your faisely possessed patient ? And therefore yeeld your submission for shame . Exorcistes . Nay sir , the yoongman ( I dare assure you ) he did not counterfeite the matter : but , was actually possessed at least . Else , you may likewise affirme , that his owne sister , Mary Cooper , did but counterfeite . For , she also ( euen in the selfesame manner ) was fearefully tormented by fits . Very certeine it is , that she did not counterfeite at all : but was vndoubtedly possest by the diuel . Orthodoxus . She was vndoubtedly , euen so possessed as her brother before her was repossessed , which thing also you prognosticated , accordingly as it came to passe : howbeit , neither of both their fits , were true fits indeed , but meere counterfeit fictions . For first , if Marie Cooper was truely possessed : by whose prayer and fasting was she dispossessed I pray you ? There was none other meanes vsed , to coniure out the diuell from her , but the onely bare newes of your owne , and her brothers conuention before authoritie . It should seeme she was simply possessed , either with some cowardly diuell that could not , or with some curteous diuell that would not aduenture the triall : and therefore in a peaceable manner , they did voluntarily forgoe the habitation which they possessed in peace . And as for the repossession which you so constantly foretold and auouched to be in the boy : the same is no lesse absurd then his sisters possession expressed before . For if there was in him such a repossession in deed : then , where was your reioynder for the casting of him out by prayer and fasting ? Either he was not repossessed at all , and so your prognostication prooued false : or else not your selfe by praier and fasting , but Iudge Anderson rather ( by procuring a Processe , de vilaica remouenda , did driue out that daugerous diuell . In the powerfull execution of which Processe , he so canuassed that cumbersome Spirit , as he was glad to betake himselfe to the vttermost borders of Aegypt : and euer since then , the countrey hath beene free from such dangerous bug-boyes , and therefore you may boldly submit your selfe . Exorcistes . If I submit to this motion , my credit is crackt in the world . Orthodoxus . Why stand you so much vpon your outward reputation before the face of the world : against the plaine euidence of your inward conscience in the presence of God ? Or , why will you ( in this case especially ) so fondly respect the flying reports of phantasticall felowes ? What will it preiudice your person , though blind ignorance should cancell your credit in the transitorie tables of worldly mens harts : when your owne conscience doth not rase foorth your name from the euerlasting Booke of the liuing ? Put case , that those good reports which the world doth affoord you , be not found to be faithfully registred in the closet of your conscience : then , what other effect can they cause in the same , but an inward tormenting torture ? Put case againe , that those bad reports wherewith the vile world would besmeere your credit among men , be found vtterly false in the consistory of your secret conscience : Oh , what an exceeding great ioy will be resident there , and keepe in the same a continuall feast ? So then , if your owne conscience accuse you not , you must not so greatly regard the causeles contumelies of cinicall censurers , as that for the same , you care not to torture your conscience with continuall torments . Neither may you be perswaded , that other mens lying reportes are esteemed more authenticall before the tribunall seat of Christ the righteous Iudge , then the approoued testimonie of your owne conscience , which stands there to be acquited in iudgement . The premisses therefore considered , I would aduise you rather to respect conscience , then fame : for fame may oftsoones be forged , but so can conscience neuer , and therefore submit , your selfe . Exorcistes . Alas sir , I am ( by the verie force of your speech ) so fearefully distracted , as I wotte not which waies to turne me . For , if I stande out ( as hitherto I haue done ) you will repute me to be peeuishly obstinate : on the otherside , by submitting my selfe to your motion , I should but confirme the Bishop ; in their badde opinion concerning my cause . Who ( suspecting me to be confederate with the boie in some cosening practise ) haue hitherto handled me too too hardly . Orthodoxus . Your setled pertinancie in so apparant an vntruth , hath bred in euerie of them that bad opinion : and your peeuish persisting therein , doth more fully confirme them in such a conceit . Touching their hard proceeding against your person , if you simply respect the cause , they could do no lesse then they did : although yet ( respecting especially your place and calling ) it were to be wished , that ( as well on their , as on your owne behalfe ) a more considerate regard had beene giuen to the maine cause it selfe , without any such eger persute , or preposterous apologies , cōcerning matters of fact . For then , so soone as it had been made apparantly euident , that , there are now no possessions at all : your standing out in the matter would foorthwith haue beene nipt in the head . Whereas they now ( suspecting perhaps , that you had some sinister purpose to manage your publike fasts , by such a pretended false miracle ) haue shewed the more sharpenes : and your selfe on the otherside ( surmizing it may be , that they onely maligning the puritie of your pretended profession ) haue continued so much the more obstinate . All which inconsiderate courses , and preposterous practises would haue beene fitly forestalled , if betweene you all , the cause it selfe had beene cleered ▪ Howbeit , the remedie comes neuer vnseasonablie , which may fully effect the cure : and that I assure my selfe , may yet be accomplished by your dutifull and humble submission . Exorcistes . Sir , notwithstanding anie your patheticall perswasions : the premisses considered , I may in no wise submit . Physiologus . Master Orthodoxus , that which hath beene hitherto spoken may fully suffice to perswade any reasonable person , affecting the sincere truth with freedome of conscience . Howbeit , this fellow I perceiue , he is wholie ouerswaied with some spiced singularitie , or with a peeuish selfewill at the least , in not submitting himselfe to that truth which he is vnable to answer , for any thing hitherto heard . You haue ( I confesse ) beene toiled too much , respecting especially your present meditations , for the Sabaoth daies exercise : and therefore it shall not be amisse to put an end to our conference . In the meane time , let Exorcistes repaire to his familiar friendes , and those of his faction , how many or mightie soeuer . Let him intimate our whole discourse , to their approoued iudgements . Let them dulie consider , and exactly perpend the seuerall points : and then , let them ( in a more mature deliberation ) deuise with themselues , whether it be better for the man to submit , or still to stand out as he doth . If they aduise him to yeeld a submission ; we haue our harts desire , and God the whole glorie . If otherwise they will haue him standfast to his tackling : Let then signifie the manner how with the time , and place , for our meeting , and we will be readie from time to time to conferre with them to the full , if they accept of our offer . Lycanthropus . This is ( in my simple conceite ) a Christian motion . Pneumatomachus . If they dislike , they shall greatly discredit their cause . Physiologus . They are bound to praise God for your Christian care . Orthodoxus . Well then , in the meane time we will pray vnto God to enlighten our iudgements , to make vs wise to sobrietie , and to giue vnto vs the spirit of discretion , that we may be able to discerne the things that differ , and to approoue only of those things which are pleasing to God in Iesus Christ : and so I take my leaue for the present . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Soli Deo gloria , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . A summarie Table of all the principall points , the speciall matters , the seuerall syllogismes , and the sundrie expositions of such places of Scripture , as are any way pertinent to the maine purpose it selfe . The first Dialogue . pag. 1. CHristian conferences , and their commendable vse . pag. 2. Sommers his supposed passions put downe . 4 Mans nature is euer desirous of Nouelties . 6 Christian exercises must be begun with praier . 7 Pneumatomachus , what it properly signifieth . 8 That there are essentiall spirits and diuels . 9 Angels are celestiall creatures , created of God. ibid. Spirits and diuels , supposed to be nothing else but the good , or euill motions in men . ibid. Angels supposed to be none other thing els , but the sensible signes of Gods woonderfull power . ibid. It is dangerous to denie the essentiall being of spirits and diuels . 11 Man is endued with a spirituall , and immortall soule . ibid. The originall fountaines , or grounds of all errors . 12 Physiologus , and what the same signifieth . 13 Philosophie , is not simplie forbidden , Col. 2. 8. ibid. The true vse of Philosophie expressed . ibid. The minde what it is , and the effects thereof . ibid. The minde how it is corrupted naturally . 14 The minde differeth from the will , and how ? ibid. Phantasie , what it is , and how it worketh . ibid. The naturall man , vnable to comprehend spirituall things . 14 , 15 Anthropomorphites errour , and whence it sprang . 17 Scriptures expounded hand ouer head , doe procure a thousand absurdities . 18 Reasons , proouing Spirits and Diuels to be more then the good or euill motions of men . 18 , 19 Angels not mentioned in the Worlds creation . 21 Angels and Spirits , not eternall , or vncreated . 22 Angels , in what day they were created . 23 , 24 Reasons to prooue the essentiall being of Angels . ibid. Testimonies of Fathers for the essentiall being of Angels . 24 Angels created on the second day . 24 , 25 Reasons to prooue the essentiall being of Angels . 26 Angels how they are saide to be euill . 28 To be created good , and still to retaine that selfesame goodnes , are two distinct things . 29 Boyling affections , the causes of controuersies . 30 Physiologus , and what the same signifieth . 31 Possessions doubted in these daies of the Gospell . 32 Satans dominion ouer men , what it is , and how the same is limited . 33 Possession , and what it importeth . ibid. The worde Possession , is not peculiarly appropriated to the Diuel , throughout the whole Bible . ibid. If the Lord had euer entended an essentiall possession of Diuels , he wanted not fit words to expresse it . 34 Possession what it is in the Hebrue toong . 35 Possession what it signifieth in the Greeke toong . 37 Possession how the same is defined . 40 Reall possession of Diuels , what it is . 41 Mentall possession what it is thought to be . ibid. Reall possession , whether in the minde alone , or in the body alone , or in the minde and bodie togither . ibid. Satan needs no mentall possession , for the actuall accomplishment of sinne in any . 42 The maner of Satan his proceeding with men . 43 , 44 Reasons against the reall mentall possession . 45 , 46 Our iudgement concerning the reall mentall possession , is mightily deceiued , by relying too much on the bare letter . 48 Satan being a Spirit , doth principally affect mans spirit . 49 After what manner the Diuell hath a mentall possession . 50 Spirits and Diuels are substantiall creatures . 51 Diuels are Spirits by nature , and Angels by office . ibid. Diuels are spirituall and finite substances . 52 , 53 Whether mans minde be a receptacle , or place circumscribing the Diuell . 53 Whether mans minde be a common or proper place for the Diuell . 54 Whether it be a corporall , or an imaginarie place . 55 Things are said to be in a place three maner of waies . 56 Corporall substances are in a place dimensiuely . ibid. Spirituall substances , are in a place determinately . 57 God is in a place indefinitiuely , and repletiuely . ibid. Angels and Diuels , howsoeuer they propound diuers ends , their maner of working , is euer the same . 58 Diuels how , and by what meanes they torment men . 60 God is the onely encliner of mans minde . 61 Mans minde is inclined either by an interiour efficient , or by an exterior agent . 62 The third Dialogue , pag. 64. COrporall possession , what it is supposed to be of some . 65 Reall corporall possession what it is ordinarily thought to be , ibid. Entring in and dwelling there , do imply no essentially inherency , but an effectuall operation in the bodies of men . 66 The Metaphor of entring in , rightly expounded and fitly explicated by the example of Saul and Dauid . 67 The word Tsalak verie truely expounded , by conference with other places of scripture . 68 A good rule for the right vnderstanding of such scriptures , as doe any way concerne the extraordinarie operation of Spirits . 69 Sundrie reasons against the reall corporall possession . 70 Mans minde is an incorporall substance being simply considered . 70 , 71 The proper operations of the minde , are either organicall or animall . ibid. The organicall operations of the minde , what they are ? 72 The animall operations of the minde , what they are ? ibid. Whether mans minde or the Diuell be answerable for the actions done by the bodie , during the time of Satans possession . 73 , 74 God ( in the first creation of bodies ) neuer purposed any such reall corporal possessions of Diuels . 74 Gods image was not lost in Adam , as touching the essence . 76 A humane bodie is onely capable of an humane soule . 77 Satan so possesseth , as Christ inuadeth . ibid. There is no one necessarie vse or end of such a possession . ibid. If the Diuell be in the possessed mans bodie essentially , then is he so , either hypostatically or formally . 78 How the reall corporall possession may be perceiued . 78 , 79 Whether Diuels haue their proper , or their assumed bodies : or whether no bodies at all ? 80 Celestiall bodies haue onely their celestiall motions : and elementarie bodies , their elementarie motions . 80 , 81 Grosse absurdities ensuing the opinion of corporall Diuels . ibid. It is absurd to hold that Diuels haue airie bodies . 82 Augustine is not sound concerning the supposed airie bodies of Spirits and Diuels . 83 Though it were graunted that Diuels might adde vnto , yet may they not diminish or alter their substantiall being . 84 Fower seuerall sorts of Spirits found in the word . ibid. Angels haue eftsoones their assumed bodies , and why ? 85 The testimonie of fathers , pretending corporall Diuels . 86 Reasons directly concluding the incorporietie of Diuels . 94 Testimonie of fathers concerning that point . 95 The Grand Iuries verdict against corporall Diuels . 96 The Laterane Councell concluding the same . 97 The fourth Dialogue . pag. 99. WHether Diuels can essentially assume true naturall bodies . 9. Whether that bodie which the Diuels are supposed to assume : be a true naturall or but a phantasticall bodie . 100 The Diuell had neuer power to assume essentially any liuing mans bodie . pag. 101 The Diuel had neuer power to assume essentially any dead mans body . ibi . It is absurd to hold the Diuell his assuming of dead mens bodies . 101 , 102 Whether the Diuell can assume to himselfe an vncreated bodie . 102 The Lord alone is the onely creator of bodies . ibid. It is absurd to imagine that God should create bodies for Satan . 103 Satan hath no power at all to create a bodie . 104 Arguments pretending the Diuell his essentiall assuming of bodies . 105 It is no good argument to hold , that because good Angels haue , therefore euill Angels may also assume to themselues true natural bodies . 105 , 106 That place in the Psalme 78. 49. is verie truely expounded . 107 The Diuell did not essentially assume to himselfe the serpents body . 108 Whether it was the Diuell alone or the serpent alone , or the Diuell and serpent together that tempted Euah . 109 It is ordinarie in the scriptures to vse the names of other creatures : in setting foorth vnto vs the intellectuall creatures . 111 Reasons declaring why it was not the serpent , but the Diuell himselfe set foorth by the name of a serpent that tempted Euah . ibid. A verie good Canon for the faithfull expounding of scriptures . 112 It is no absurditie or impietie at all to hold , that Moses vnder the person of a poysoning serpent : did metaphorically set out the Diuell who poysoned our grandmother Euah . 114 The iudgement of Tremellius and others concerning this point . 115 The common receiued opinion herein consented vnto , and why ? ibid. The true interpretation of the word Nachash . 116 The Diuell did not essentially enter into the serpents body . ibid. Whether the Angell essentially spake in Baalams Asse : and how that scripture is to be vnderstood . 117 Whether the Angell opened the Asses mouth efficiently , or but ministerially . 118 Whether the Angell for such a ministeriall opening of the Asses mouth , did essentially enter into the Asses bodie ? 119 Whether Samuels true naturall bodie was essentially assumed by Satan . 120 Whether the Diuell appeared to Saul in Samuels likenes . 123 Sundrie impossiblities and absurdities concerning such a supposed likenes . pag. ibid. The opinion of sundrie writers touching this point . ibid. The Witch , a cunning ventriloquist , coosened Saul . 126 The distinction of essentialitér and effectiué , is no new , but a renued distinction and ordinarie with Schoolemen and Fathers . 127 The testimonie of writers touching that point . 128 It is absurd to vnderstand literally the things that are spoken of Satan . 129 The fifth Dialogue . pag. 131. WHether Diuels can essentially transforme themselues into any true naturall bodie ? 131 This essential transformation of Diuels , is opposite to true philosophy . 132 Diuels are not essentially transformed into Angels of light . 134 The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what it importeth . ibid. The place of 2. Cor. 11. 14. is truely expounded . 134. 135 The conference of that one , with other places of scripture , 136 The family of loue is fitly confuted . ibid. Transubstantiation very shrewdly cut in the neck . 137 Antiquity is no priuiledge for errours whatsoeuer . ibid. Whether the Sorcerers rods were essentially transformed into true naturall serpents ? 138 Whether the Sorcerers rods were true Serpents in deed , or serpents onely in an outward appearance . ibid. The Serpents rods were no true naturall rods , in any orderly course of nature . 139. Neither Sorcerer nor Diuel , could euer work a true miracle . 140 Diuels neuer had any supernaturall power or skill . 141 Why the Sorcerers rods were called Serpents : not being in deede true naturall Serpents ? 142 Satan may procure an outward appearance of things , three manner of waies . 143 Spirits and Diuels , they haue a deeper insight into meere naturall causes , then men haue by much . 144 The Diuel in transforming the Sorcerers rods , was vndoubtedly assisted with a twofold power . 145 What is ment by the power of nature ? ibid. What is to be vnderstood by the power of obedience ? 146 The Sorcerers rods they were trasformed into Serpents , not existingly , but appearingly . 147 Whether Nabuchadnez-zer was essentially transformed into a naturall oxe ? 148 There was in Nebuchadnez-zer no transmutation of substance : but onely an alteration of qualities . 149 Fury disordering mens nature , doth make them beastly affected . 152 Men by tradition haue receiued ( hand ouer head ) an error concerning the essentiall transformation of Diuels . 153 God hath naturally engraffed in man such a peculiar propriety touching his naturall being : as can at no hand be essentially transformed into any other forme . 153 , 154 Mans members may not possibly be transformed into the proportion or lineaments of a beast . 155 If there are essentiall transformations of Diuels : then Christs argument ( Ioh. 20. 27. ) cannot be currant . ibid. That there are no essentiall transformations in any sensible appearance . 156 Lycanthropus , and what the same importeth . 159 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a mere naturall disease , and how . ibid. Lycanthropy , and melancholy proceed from one and the same cause . 160 The signes and effects of a true Lycanthropy . 161 The An●yran Councell against the opinion of essentiall transformations . ibid. Councels , Fathers , and the popes owne Canons condemning the same . page 162 The sixt Dialogue . pag. 165 ACtuall possession what it is , and the causes thereof . 166 The actuall possession of Diuels is twofold . ibid. The actuall possession of Diuels was onely in Christ and the Apostles daies . 168 The perpetuitie of actuall possession was neuer purposed by God. ibid. Whether the commission giuen by Christ to his Apostles for the dispossessing of Diuels , be a perpetuall commission ? 169 Reasons against the perpetuitie of actuall possessions . ibid. The extraordinarie power for the expelling of Diuels , was onely peculiar to Christ and his owne Apostles , and why ? 170 The opinion of an●ient fathers for the supposed perpetuitie of actuall possessions , considerately examined . 171 Extraordinary gifts and graces , did determine with the officers themselues on whom they were peculiarly bestowed . 172 The continuance of actuall possession auouched in some . 173 Whether the actuall possession of Diuels be an ordinarie disease ? 174 The termes of ordinarie , and continually working what they import . 176 The instance from the Sunne with the Antipodes , verie fitly retorted . 177 The actuall possession of Diuels is an extraordinarie and supernaturall matter : surmounting the orderly course of nature . 178 The perpetuitie of actuall possession long since determined by Christ. 179 The two maine ends of actuall possession are ceased long since . ibid. That maine ende which tended to the manifestation of Christ his Deitie , is fully determined , Ioh. 12 , 31. 179 Christ his power matter to worke vpon still , though the actuall possession be ceased long since . 180 The text in Ioh. 12. 31. is cleered by conferring the same with other places of Scripture . 181 Scriptures vnfolding that extraordinarie power of Christ for the dispossessing of Diuels , before his suffring in the flesh . 182 The difference betweene Christ and the Leuitical priesthood , verie plainely expressed . 183 Scriptures respecting this speciall power of Christ after his suffring . 184 Tho words Tsamath , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 verie plainely expounded . 185 The text of Iohn 12. 31. paraphrasticallie analyzed . 187 The Fathers opinion concerning the ceasing of actuall possession . 189 The Diuell was subdued in the Fathers before the comming of Christ 190 Though actuall possession be ceased : the faithfull are not freed quite from the Diuell his sundrie tentations . ibid. The reason why Satans destruction , is so confidently applied to the actuall determination of his essentiall possessions . 195 This our exposition of Iohn 12. 31. ouerthrowes not , but confirmes the ordinarie receiued exposition . ibid. Something besides the weakening of Satans dominion , was actually accomplisht , by the verie act of Christ his death . 196 Christ restraines the actuall determination of actuall possession , to the verie act of his death . ibid. The dispossessions after Christes death , were to confirme the Gospel . 197 The seuenth Dialogue . pag. 199. WHether common experience may concludently prooue the supposed continuance of actuall possession ? 199 The actions in the yoong man at Nottingham were ( in experience ) no admirable matters , if we consider the actions well . 200 Many naturall experiments as admirable as those , in all appeerance . 202 Many maruels in nature , ouershadowed as yet , with natures maiestie . ibid. Verie strange and admirable woonders apparant in nature . 203 More strange and admirable matters , are reported by Augustine . 205 As admirable matters may and do proceed from naturall diseases . 206 The actions at Nottingham , they were no admirable matters at all , if we but respect Satan the supposed actor thereof . 208 Satan can effect nothing impossible in nature , or incredible in diuinity . ibid. If Diuels be the creators of substances : then are they also the quickeners thereof . ibid. The nature of beginnings , affecteth singularitie . ibid. Diuels may worke strange woonders : but not effect any miraculous actions . 209 Satan restrained from working miracles : by the bounds of nature , and the will of God. ibid. What is necessarilie required in the orderly accomplishment of euerie action . 210 Satan his supposed actions in Sommers , are opposite to Diuinitie , Philosophie , Physicke , Nature , Lawe , and to Conscience . 211 It is impossible for Diuels , to effect impossible matters . 213 The truth of Sommers his supposed actions : is tried foorth by the nature of the things : and by the rule of right iudgement . 214 Sommers his supposed actions , were either naturall , or not naturall . ibid. Things naturall , what they properly are . ibid. Things not naturall and their kindes . 215 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what they are . ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what they import ? 216 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , how they are to be vnderstood . ibid. The rule of right iudgement , with the seuerall kindes . 217 The naturall cause of truth , and the kindes thereof . ibid. Naturall principles , and the seuerall kindes . ibid. Theoricall principles , for the iudging of things . ibid. Practicall principles for the effecting of things . ibid. Vniuersall experience , another naturall rule of iudgement . 218 The words Cheker , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 expounded . ibid. Experience , what it is : with the sundrie degrees . 219 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what it signifieth ? ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what it importeth ? ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what it respecteth ? ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what the same betokeneth . ibid. A supposed spirituall experience pretended , to prooue the supposed natural experience . 221 The holie Ghost hath giuen neither Canon , nor Councell , concerning the perpetuitie of actuall possession . 223 Arguments against the perpetuitie thereof . 225 Obsession , what it is , with the kindes thereof . 226 Outward assaulting and vexing , how ? 227 Inward suggesting ; and tempting how ? ibid. The meanes how Satan effecteth his power of obsession laide foorth at large . ibid. The determination of actuall possession , giueth no libertie to Atheisme : but rather the contrarie . 230 The eight Dialogue . pag. 232 SAtans power of actual possession , could not be subdued but by some supernaturall power . 232 Etsbang Elohim , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what power they import . pag. 234 The immediate power for expelling Diuels . ibid. The mediate power , with the kindes thereof . ibid. Christ expelleth efficiently : others ministerially ibid. The Apostles mediate power , what it was ? 235 The Ecclesiasticall mediate power : with the kindes . ibid. The Ecclesiasticall mediate power , respecting the Churches primitiue , what it is . ibid. The same power respecting the Churches successiue . 236 Exorcizing what it is , with the kindes . ibid. Counterfeit Exorcizings , euer in the Church . ibid. Satanicall Exorcizing , what it is . 237 Ethnicall facultie for Exorcizing , what ? ibid. Iudaicall facultie for Exorcizing , what ? 238 Papisticall power for Exorcizing Spirits , what ? 239 What kinde of Exorcizing , master Darels was ? ibid. Whether a Diuell indeed was driuen out of Sommers ? 240 The pretended signes of dispossession , cannot concludently prooue a possession . ibid. Whether the precedent , or subsequent signes , do conclude the pretended dispossession ? 241 The reasons from the supposed signes of dispossession , verie fitly retorted . pag. 242 Dispossession , whether effected by meanes , or by miracle ? ibid. Whether diuels are driuen out , by meere naturall meanes . 243 Whether by a created , or vncreated meanes . 244 No created meanes may efficiently extend it selfe to the supernaturall expelling of Diuels . ibid. Pretended instances of created meanes , from Iosephus . 245 Wierus his censure vpon Iosephus : concerning the expelling of Diuels by created meanes . 246 Whether the perfume made with the fishes liuer expelled the Diuell from Tobiah his wife . 247 Whether Dauids harpe expelled the Diuell from Saul . 248 Torments inflicted by Satan two waies abated : yet not totally remooued , pag. 250 Whether there may be an actiue operation of Satan , without a passiue disposition in the Demoniake . 251 Whether Elisha recouered the gift of prophesie by the melodious sound of an harpe ? 255 Whether praier alone , or fasting alone , or both togither , are meanes for the expelling of Diuels ? 257 Whether fasting and praier was any other then a created , or a meere naturall matter ? 259 Whether the efficacie of such pretended praier , consisteth in sounde , in voice , or in wordes . ibid. Whether the deniall of dispossessions by fasting and praier : be any disgrace to fasting and praier ? 260 The ninth Dialogue . pag. 263. WHether praier and fasting be an ordinance perpetually established by Christ : for the powerfull expelling of Diuels ? 264 Whether the wordes of Math. 17. 20. doe directly prooue such an ordinance ? ibid. Whether an ordinance for all : or some speciall persons . 267 What warrant master Darell had to vndertake the execution of such a supposed ordinance ? 268 Whether he effected the worke as a common Christian : or as a minister of Christ ? 269 Whether he did it as an ordinarie , or an extraordinarie minister . ibid. Why other Ministers could not as well do it as he . 271 Whether praier and fasting be effectuall but by times and by turnes ? 272 If Exorcistes had that power aboue others : the same must needs be a vocall , or personall power . 274 How vertue proceeded from Christes bodie , for the curing of men . 275 Whether dispossessions effected by Christ were works of his Diuinitie , or humanitie , or of both . 276 Chrsts humanitie alone , vnable to effect any miraculous actions . 277 The working of miracles must be considered , partly principally : and partly ministerially . 278 How Christ his humanitie alone , and all other the seruants of God may be said to be instruments . 279 God alone the efficient cause of miracles . ibid. The instrument is that whereby God effecteth miracles : and , the same is an instrument , either conioyned , or seperated . ibid. How those instruments haue in them a certeine different vertue . ibid. Augustines opinion concerning Gods working of miraculous actions . 280 Gregorie his iudgement confuted : concerning mans-working of miracles , principally , and instrumentally . 282 The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 verie truely interpreted . ibid. Whether Peter had a principall power in the effecting : of miracles ? 284 In all miracles , we are to respect the actiue vertue effecting : and the action effected . 286 Respecting the actiue vertue effecting all miracles are alike , and why ? ibid. Respecting the actions effected , there is some difference , whether we consider the matter of the thing effected ▪ or the manner of effecting the same . ibid. Whether Exorcistes draue out the Diuell , by meanes of some supernaturall power from God : or whether the Lord himselfe draue him out by the Exorcistes hands . 287 By what meanes Exorcistes apprehended that supernaturall power of God ? pag. 288 Whether by some power of praier and fasting . ibid. How Diuels are distinguished by the words ( this kinde ) 291 What faith apprehendeth that power of God. 292 Whether Math. 17. 20. be to be vnderstood of the iustifying faith , as able alone to expell Diuels . 294 Whether Marc. 16. 25. 17. be to be properly vnderstood of the iustifying faith . 296 Maister Beza his iudgement concerning the casting out of Diuels by a iustifying faith . 297 The personall prerogatiues spoken of Marc. 16. 17. were but temporarie seales to establish the Gospell . 299 Testimonies of writers concerning that point . 300 Either no Diuell at all driuen foorth , or driuen foorth by the miraculous faith . 302 The tenth Dialogue . pag. 340 WHether the miraculous faith be yet still continued in these daies of the Gospel ? 304 What a miracle is : and whence it is deriued . 305 The words Niphlath , and Miphleoth interpreted . ibid. The causes and kinds of miracles . 306 The true miracles what they are . ibid. The false miracles what they are . ibid. False miracles effected 3. manner of waies . 307 A thing effected by meanes , whether a miracle . 309 Meanes either naturall : or artificiall . 310 The distinction of mirandum and miraculum , dashed . 312 Sundry places expounded concerning the true sense of Oth , and Mopeth . pag. 314 The words ( Oth and Mopeth ) expounded . 313 The words ( Semeion and Teras ) interpreted . 317 Tautologies in scripture no idle repetitions . 319 Many things effected by meanes : are ( notwithstanding ) miraculous actions . 321 How Sorcerers , Satan , or Antichrists effect woonders . 323 Nothing a true miracle , that is not truely effected : or effected to a true end . ibid. False miracles are commonly called Terata . ibid. True miracles are properly called Semeia . ibid. Exorcistesis driuen into dangerous Dilemmaes . 324 Expelling of Diuels ( whether by meanes , or without meanes ) as admirable now , as euer . ibid. Whether the working of miracles be ceased . 325 The ends of miracles are ceased now . ibid. That end which concernes the declaration of Christs Deity : is determined Math. 12. 39. 40. ibid. That other end which respects the confirmation of the Gospel : is determined by Marc. 16. 20. and Heb. 23. ibid. Miracles needlesse , for the confutation of Atheists . 326 Miracles , friuolous for the silencing of papists . 327 Praier and fasting , are not graced by miracles now . ibid. Dispossessions by praier and fasting : not generally held of all Diuines , as is pretended . 329 The miraculous faith is now determined . 330 The faith of hearing for euer established . ibid. Reasons for the determination of miracles . ibid. Testimonies of writers for that purpose . 333 The faith of miracles , but rash , and vncerteine . 337 Hippocrates opinion of miracle-mongers . ibid. The eleuenth Dialogue . pag. 339. A Summary recapitulation of all the premisses . 339 The necessity of such a recapitulation . ibid. A summary abridgement of the 1. Dialogue . 340 A summary abridgement of the 2. Dialogue . ibid. A summary abridgement of the 3. Dialogue . 341 A summary abridgement of the 4. Dialogue . 342 A summary abridgement of the 5. Dialogue . ibid. A summary abridgement of the 6. Dialogue . 343 A summary abridgement of the 7. Dialogue . ibid. A summary abridgement of the 8. Dialogue . 344 A summary abridgement of the 9. Dialogue . ibid. A summarie abridgement of the 10. Dialogue . 345 Certaine respects , restrayning Exorcistes from submitting to the truth of this Doctrine . 346 The note of inconstancie and cowardlines . 347 The hardening of the aduersaries against better causes . 348 The scādalizing of zealous professors & offending of great personages . ibi . Feare of being depriued from all ministerie . 349 The depriuing of him and his from all maintenance . 351 The suspicion of practizing with the counterfeits . 352 How the charitable sort esteeme the action ? ibid. If W. Sommers , then also M. Cooper counterfeited . 353 How M. Cooper was cured . ibid. The fixt respect , vz. losse of credit for euer . 354 Exorcistes is fearefully distracted . 355 Pertinacie in his opinion put ouer to some other conference at his owne choise . 356 FINIS . Gentle Reader so many faults in the Printing as came to our remembrance , we pray thee correct as followeth : the rest ( if any arise ) we referre to thy godly wisedome . Pag. 6. lin . 28. put downe Orthodoxus for the speaker . pag. 21. l. 3. for executiours , read executioners . pag. 106. lin . 4. for visible , r. visibly . pag. 205. lin . 31. for actuall , r. effectuall . pag. 307. l. 34. for and of heat , r. an actiue heat . Item , l. 36. for an actiue , r. and of an actiue . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A20000-e230 Math. 5. 11. 2. Tim. 2. 17. Ier. 13. 23. 1. Cor. 4. 3. 4. Ioh. Drusij Adag . 2. Haras in libro Auoth . In Sanhedrin . edit . Basiliens : cap. 10. Notes for div A20000-e1480 Act. 15. 37. 38. Cicero . 1. Cor. 1. 10. 11. Eccles. 1. 12. 13. Reasons for the hetherto suppressing of this present treatis● . Psalm . 141. 5. Luc. 10. 34. 2. Chro. 15. 13. 14. Reasons , for the now publishing of this present treatise . Tertul. in Apologetico . Math. 24. 23. 24. Luc. 17. 31. 2. Thes. 2. 9. 10. Hieron . de illustribus . Lucianus . 2. Sam. 1. 20. Aristotoleles . Aristophanes . 1. Cor. 3. 4. 7. Iude 22. Iude 23. Ben-Sirah in suis prouerbijs . Item , citatum inuenies in Medras Mesle . Eccles. 10 , 20. 1. Pet. 2. 13. 17. Iudg. 9. 8. &c. Psal. 122. 6. 7. Psal. 85. 10. 11. 1. King. 21. 20. 1. King. 22. 8. 1. Cor. 15. 8. 9. Luc. 18. 9. 11. 12. 1. Cor. 10. 12. Beza annotat . in Math. 1. 19. 2. Sam. 16. 9. Aristophanes . 2. Sam. 16. 9. 10. 11. 12. 1. Cor. 4. 4. Aristides . Math. 7. 5. In Gemara cap. 6. Item in Glossa Thalmudica . In Elie , id est , in the height of his pride . At Abington , id est , on the gallowes that Northhamptonshire feolons are hanged vpon . 1. Cor. 3. 12. 13. Iudg. 14. 18. 1. Cor. 9. 22. Queres , concerning the publike priuiledge , for Printing , and publishing Bookes . Eugubinus , de perenni Philosop . lib. 3. Notes for div A20000-e11130 Math. 17. 21. Marc. 9. 29. Act. 17. 18. 2. Tim. 4. 3. These passions are apparant in Dorel his Apologie . Act. 17. 21. Act. 23 , 8. Iohannis Caluini opuscula , contra Libertinos . c. 12. fol. 179. G. Alley in his poore mans librarie . fol. 123. Maister Perkins vpon the Creede , fol. 73. Iosephus de Antiquit. Iud. lib. 20. Magister in historijs . Ioh. 4. 24. 1. Cor. 3. 16. Exod. 7. 12. Col. 2. 8. Gen. 17. 1. Isa. 6. 3. Isa. 6. 2. 2. Pet. 2. 4 , Iude. 6. Iam. 3. 15. 1. Cor. 2. 14. Heb. 11. 1. Gregorius in Homil. 26. super Euang. 1. Cor. 1. 20. Gregorius in morali●us . Item , in libr● de collatione patrum . Gen. 3. 1. 11. Cor. 3. 3. Math. 4. 1. 3. Luc. 4. 2. 3. Math. 8. 28. Marc. 5. 9. Luc. 8. 30. Math. 25. 41 ▪ 46. Gen. 19. 13. Numb . 22. 27. 28. 2. King. 19. 35. Aug. de cognitione verae vitae cap. 6. Danaeus in Enchir . August . cap. 57. pag. 193. Gen. 1. 24. 25. Gen. 1. 7. 8. Hieron , Zanchius deoperibus Dei. lib. 2. cap. 5. Theodorelus quest . 3. super Genes . Gennadius , Otho Casmannus Angelographiae part . 1. cap. 5. pag. 107. Psal. 33. 6. Psal. 148. 2. 5. Col. 1. 16. Gen. 1. 1. 2. Psal. 148. 2. 3. Heb. 1. 7. Reuel . 4. 11. Psal. 33. 6. Reuel . 10. 6. Gen. 2. 1. 2. Psal. 33. 6. Reuel . 10. 6. Gen. 2. 1. 2. Patricius lib. de essentia , & ente . Methodius in serm . de resurrect . lib. 2. tom . 1. Epiphanius lib. 2. tom . 2. Athanasius , de beatit , fi●ij Dei. Aug. de ciuit . Dei. lib. 11. cap. 5. Eucherius , de creat . Angel. Theodoretus , de dijs , & Angelis , lib. 3. Damasc. de orth . fide lib. 2. cap. 3. Conc Lat. magn . Can. 1. Conc. Brachor . concil . primum . cap. 5. Magist sentent . lib. 2. dist . 2. August . in libro de trinitate . Iob. 38. 4. 5. 6. 7. Magist. sentent . lib. 2. dist . 2. Beda in Iob. 38. 7. Strabus , Iob. 1. ● . and 2. 1. Gen. 1. 10. Gen. 1. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. Math. 25. 34. Gen. 1. 6. 7. 8. Hieronimus Zanchius , de operibus Dei , lib. 2. cap. 2. Math. 25. 41. Zach. 3. 2. Math. 4. 1. 5. Luc. 11. 21. 2. Cor. 4. 4. Eph. 2. 2. & , 6. 12. Ioh. 8. 44. 1. Pet. 5. 8. Reuel . 12. 7. 9. Gen. 3. 1. 1. King. 22. 22. Math. 4. 1. 1. Sam. 16. 14. Math. 27. 5. Luc. 22. 31. 2. Cor. 2. 11. 1. Pet. 5. 8. Math. 22. 30. Timoth. Brichtus in animaduers . Physica . The Harmonie of cōfessions , 58. Confessio Belgia articl . 12. Confessio Franc. artic . 7. 1. Cor. 1. 10. Iam. 4. 1. Notes for div A20000-e27090 Math. 8. 28. Marc. 1. 32. Math. 12. 45. Marc. 9. 25. Luc. 22. 3. Ioh. 13. 27. Act. 5. 3. Martinus Bucerus , in Marc. 1. 23. Ioh. 12. 31. and 16. 11. Eph. 2. 2. and 6. 12. Math. 12. 29. Luc. 11. 12. Luc. 11. 22. Tho. Aquinas 2. 2. q. 136. artic . 2. fol. 275 Erasm. Sarcereus in Luc. 11. 20. 21. Math. 4. 24. and 8. 16. and 8. 28. and 8. 33. and 9. 32. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , apprehendit ▪ apprehensum , detinuit , obtinuit , retinuit . Hinc , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , vt Nomb. 31. 30. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , apprensum , captum . Item , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , possessio , apprehensio , detentio quae tenetur à possidentibus , vt Nomb. 32. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in possessionem Iosh. 22. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ad terram possessionis vestrae . Psal. 2. 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . in possessionem tuam . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , teneo , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , apprehendo . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , detinut , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , contine●item , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , inde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Aristophanes . Luci●nus . Math. 19. 22. M●rc . 10. 22. Act. 2. 45. and 5. 1. 1. Thes. 4. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est possedit , occupauit , habuit in dominio , & potestate sua . hinc , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , possessio . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est efflagitatio contentiosa . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , concessit , vel potestatem dedit . Ierem. 49. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nomb. 24. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. possessio . Isa. 14. 24. Abd. 1. 17. Iob. 17. 11. Iob. 17. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , possessiones cordis mei . vide Tremel . in Iob. Iob. cap. 17. 10. & Franciscus vatabal . ibid. Deut. 33. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Exod. 6. 8. Ezech. 11. 4. and 25. 4. and 33. 25. and 36. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , termino , & determino . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est terminus . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , definitio , vel constitutio . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , extermino , & exhaeredito . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. exilium . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , possessio , vel haereditas . Math. 5. 5. and 10. 9. Act. 1. 18. and 5. 1. 1. Cor. 6. 9. and 7. 30. 1. Thess. 4. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Iam. 3. 15. Erasmus , in Math 4. 24. Hugo Cardinal . Math. 4. 24. Gualter ibid. Moses Pellach . in Mat. 17. 16. Beza , ibid. Arct●us , in Marc. 5. Mart. Bucerus in Math. 1. 23. Iohannis Caluini . in Math. 4. 24. & 8. 16. and 9. 32. Aug. Marlorat . in Act. 10. 38. Gualter , in Math. 12. 22. Theod. Beza in Math. 8. 16. Erasm , annot at . in Math. 4. 24. Math. 8. 28. Marc. 5. 2. Luc. 8. 27. Math. 15. 22. Haec Ambrosius super Lucam . Luc. 22. 3. Ioh. 13. 27. Ioh. 13. 2. Ioh. 13. 2. Psalm . 41. 9. Act. 4. 28. Iam. 1. 14. August . super Genes . and Lyram . cap. 11. Lyra in Genes . cap. 3. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Caluinus , in Gen. 3. 6. Gen. 3. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Gen. 3. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Gen. 3. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Gen. 3. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. Caluinus , in Gen. 3. 5. Tho. Aquin. 2. 2. q. 35. art . 1. fol. 123. per modum appetibilis : non per modum suggerentis . Psalm . 7. 9. Act. 1. 24. Ioh. 14. 16. 17. Diuulsio siue distinctio subctantiarum . Tota in toto , & tota in qualibet parte . Penetratio dimensionum . Simul & semel . progressus in infinitum . Math. 12. 45. Luc. 11. 26. Luc. 22. 3. Ioh. 13. 27. Act. 5. 3. Non formaliter , sed effectiuè . Lyrain Lucam , cap. 9. 15. Ioh. 13. 2. Act. 5. 3. 2. Tim. 2. 28. Iohannes Ferus in Matheum , lib. 2. cap. 8. fol. 1 33. August . de definit . ecclesiasticorum dogm . Psalm . 7. 9. Act. 1. 24. Zanch in Ephes , cap. 1. vers . 13. pag. 47. col . 1. Ioh. 14. 16. M. Perkins vpon the Creed . fol. 405. Iob. 14. 17. Isidor . de sum . bono , lib. 3. Iohannes Ferus in Matheum , lib. 2. cap. 8. fol. 133. Nic. Selneccer . in Act. cap. 17. fol. 234. Nich. Selneccer . in Act. cap. 17. fol. 234. Iohannes Bromyard , in summa predicat . A. 18. act . 1. Aug. de cognitverae vitae cap. 6. Augustinus , in Psalm . 104. 4. Andr. Hyperius de method Theol. lib. 2. pag. 273. Fulgent . in libro de fi●e , ad Petrum , cap. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non sunt : sed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Aug. ad Orosium . Quest. 17. Basil. in psal . 44. Homil. 11. Danaeus , in Enchir . Aug. cap. 6. fol. 202. 1. King. 22. 21. 22. Marc. 5. 2. 8. Math. 12. 43. Luc. 11. 24. Math. 12. 45. Luc. 11. 26. Eph. 2. 2. and 6. 12. Danaeus , in Enchir . August . cap. 59 fol. 179. Luc. 24. 39. Iul. Scaliger . Exercitat . 359. sect . 3. Greg. Magnus , lib. 2. Moral . Eccles. 39. 28. Rom. 16. 27. Greg. Magnus , lib. 2. Moral . Danaeus , in Enchir. Aug. cap. 57. fol. 193. Zanchius in Eph. cap. 4. 10. pag. 273. Augustinus . Quicquid per se mouetur : in loco mouetur . Progressus in infinitum . Nich. Selnec . in Act. 17. 18. fol. 233. pag. 2. Otho Casman . Angelographiae pars . 1. cap. 7. Quest. 2. Danaeus . in Enchir. Aug. cap. 57. fol. 193. Aug. de spiritu , & anima ▪ cap. 18. Hortus sanitatis tract . de Animal . cap. 49. Hebr. 1. 14. Gen. 18. 2. Gen. 22. 11. Gen. 28. 12. Exod. 12. 23. Luc. 1. 26. Psal. 7. 9. Act. 1. 24. Act. 17. 18. Aug. in Genes . ad literam , lib. 8. cap. 25. Zach. 1. 9. and 2. 3. Danaeus , in Enchir. Aug. cap. 59. fol. 200. 2. Cor. 13. 3. Aug. in Genes . ad literam , lib. 8. cap. 25. Aug. libro de anima & spiritu , cap. 23. & 25. Danaeus in Enchir. August . cap. 59. fol. 200. Cyprian , in prologo super sermon . Wisd. 11. 17. Eph. 2. 2. 1. King. 22. 21. 1. Chro. 21. 1. 2. Thes. 2. 9. 10. Reuel . 16. 14. 2. Cor. 12. 8. Luc. 22. 31. 1. Pet. 5. 8. 2. Cor. 2. 11. Math. 12. 43. Luc. 11. 26. Marc. 9. 25. Math. 12. 22. Math. 9. 32. Iob. 2. 7. 8. Act. 3. 2. Luc. 13. 16. Heb. 2. 4. Iob. 1. 7. & 2. 2. 1. Pet. 5. 8. August . de diuinat , daemonium . Aug. de ciuit . Dei , lib. 9. cap. 22. 1. King , 22. 21. 1. Chro. 21. 1. Non simpliciter . Pro. 21. 1. Secundum quid . Notes for div A20000-e49070 Math. 12. 45. Marc. 9. 25. Marc. 9. 25. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Reuel . 3. 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Ioh. 13. 27. Ioh. 13. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Math. 12. 45. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Ioh. 14. 23. 1. Sam. 16. 14. 1. Sam. 18. 10. 1. Sam. 10. 6. 10. 1. Sam. 16. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I●siliuit , arri●iebat , requieuit , irruens , prosperauit . Iohannes Auenarius . Lexic . Hebraic . Gen. 14. 56. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psalm . 1. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psalm . 25. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ierem. 12. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nomb. 27. 16. Nomb. 24. 2. Iudg. 3. 10. Iudg. 10. 34. Iudg. 11. 29. Iudg. 14. 6. 1. Sam. 10. 6. 1. Sam. 16. 14. 1. Sam. 16. 13. 2. Chro. 15. 1. Ezech. 11. 5. Nomb. 11. 17. 25. 2. King. 2. 9. Nomb. 14. 24. Dan. 5. 11. 12. Iam. 2. 26. Phil. 1. 23. Ioh. 11. 35. 44. Iob. 1. 11. 12. Iob. 2. 5. 6. Gen. 2. 27. Math. 12. 29. Luc. 11. 21. Eph. 4. 24. Hermes Trismegistus , in suo●periandro . Math. 12. 29. Luc. 11. 21. Luc. 11. 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sidicimus eos reuera , atque adeò 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 adesse , & inesse : esset hoc , vel hypostaticè , vel formaliter , quod est absurdum . Math. 8. 28. Marc. 9. 18. Luc. 8. 29. Iob. 1. 7. Iob. 2. 2. 1. Pet. 5. 8. Theupolus , in Academic , contemplat . lib. 6. Mich. Psellus , de operatione daemonuum , cap. 8. Marsilio Ficino interprete , tom . 2. pag. 19. 39. Eph. 2. 2. Eph. 6. 12. Chrysost. in 1. ad Thessal . homil . 11. Petr. Martyr . loc . com . 9. sect . 13. Corpus homogenium . Omne alterabile , est corruptibile , 1. de generatione . Aug. Genes . ad literam , lib. 3. Otho Casman , Angelograph , parte prima , cap. 3. pag. 66. Mich. Psellus , de operatione Daemonum cap. 11. ibid. cap. 8. ibidem cap. 9. 2. Pet. 3. 10. 11. 12. Petr. Martyr . loc . com . 9. sect . 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Regiuald Skolt in his discouerie of Witches . lib. 17. cap. 3. fol. 494. Bernard . in cant . cantic . serm . 5. Petr. Martyr . loc . com . 9. sect . 14. Oth. Casman . Angelograph . par . 1. cap. 3. pag. 72. Petr. Martyr , loc . com . 9 ▪ sect . 14. Bernard . in cant . cantic . serm . 5. Heb. 1. 14. Origen , in libro , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Hilarius , in Math. cap. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ipse dixit . Tertul. in libro decarne Christi . Tertul. contra Prax. pag. 409. Hieron . Zanchius de operibus Dei , lib. 2. cap. 3. pag. 62 ▪ Tertul. libro De anima . idem , per idem . Aug. Genes , ad literam , lib. 7. cap. 9. & 12. & 21. Et lib. 10. ibid. cap. 24 & 25. Danaeus , Enchir . August . cap. 59. pag. 179 Aug. de trinit . lib. 2. cap. 7. Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 1. Et in Genes , ad lit . lib. 11. cap. 30. Aug. de spiritu , & anima , libr. 18. Iul. Scaliger . Exercit. 359. sect . 5. Author de Ecclesiasticis dogmatibus , qui extat in tom . 3. Aug. a non causa , vt causa . Luc. 24. 39. a non causa , vt causa . Caelius Rhodig . antiquar . lect . lib. 1. cap. 20. Cateianus de verbis Apostol● . Eph. 2. 2. Francisc. Georg. tom . 1. problem . 5474. & 75. Et tom . 6. probl . 330. & 331. Item , Malleus mallefic . Item , Benedictus Pererius . Item , Gryllandus . Item , Iacobus Wickerus . Iacobus Wierus , de praefligijs , ●ib . 2. cap. 39. Sienchus Eugu●inus , de pereni●hilosoph . lib. 6. cap. 32. Otho Casman . Angelograph . par . 2. cap. 21. pag. 605. Arist. degener animal .. lib. 2. cap. 3. Paulus Frisius , Iul. Scaliger . Cassianus . Hyperius , in method . Theol. lib. 2. pag. 304. Hieron . Zanch. de operibh . Dei. lib. 2. cap. 3. pag. 62. Greg. Nazian , sermone 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Greg. 1. Roman . tem . 1. moral . In lob . lib. 2. cap. 2. Bed a , tom . 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , lib. 2 ▪ pag. 314. Damascenus , cap. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Alexander Aphrodisaeus , 12. Metaph. 12. Iul. Scaliger . Exercitat . 6. & alibi . Item exercit . 359 sect . 2. Otho Casman . Angelograph . par . 1. cap. 3. pag. 75. Luc. 24. 39. Heb. 1. 7. Psal. 204. 4. Marc. 5. 9. Luc. 8. 30. Math. 8. 28. Marc. 5. 9. 12. Luc. 8. 30. 33. Math. 8. 31. Aug. Genes . ad literam , lib. 7. cap. 9. & 12. & 21. Danaeus , in Enchir . Aug. cap. 59. pag. 179. Dionysius , de caelesti hyerarchia , cap. 2. Chrysost. in Isa. cap. 6. Aug. de cognit , verae vitae cap. 6. Theodoretus , in Genes . Quest. 36. Andreas Hierosolymitanus . Greg. in Ezech. lib. 1. hom . 12. Isidor . de sum . bono lib. 1. cap. 3 Damascenus , de orthodoxa fide , lib. 2. cap. 3. Carolus magnus de imag . lib. 3. cap. 20. Marc. Vigerius Saonensis , Decachordi , ●horda , 1. ca. 18. Leonard . Culmannus in disputat . Theolog. par . 1. fol. 15. Heb. 1. 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Bernardus , in capite Missus est , homil . 3. Conc. Lateran . magnum . Can. 1. Notes for div A20000-e72930 Tatianus contra graecos . 4. physic . & 2. de anima . simul , & semel , Ioh. 11. 39. 1. Sam. 28. 14. 1. Cor. 6. 13. 1. Cor. 6. 15. 1. Cor. 6. 19. Otho Casman . Augelograph . par . 2. cap. 18. pag. 528. Deut. 32. 39. 1. Sam. 26. Psal. 36. 9. Ioh. 5. 21. Act. 17. 28. Rom. 4. 17. Psal. 133. 6. Gen. 2. 2. 3. Exod. 20. 11. and 30. 17. Deut. 5. 14. Heb. 4. 4. Math. 4. 3. Pro. 16. 4. Rom. 11. 36. Col. 1. 16. In legenda aurea . Magist. sentent . lib. 2. dist . 7. Lucas Lossius , In Euangelia dominic . fol. 421. Act. 17. 28. Col. 1. 16. Lucas Lossius , in Euangelia dominic . fol. 505. Reginald Skot , in his discouerie of witchcraft , lib. 16. cap. 2. pag. 377. Tob. 8. 3. 2. Pet. 2. 4. Iude , 6. Reuel . 20. 1. 2. Otho Casman , Angelograph . par . 2. cap. 5. Quest. 1. pag. 272. Aposse , ad esse . Psal. 78. 49. Exod. 7. &c. and 8. &c. and 9. &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mittendo nuncios malorum . Psal. 78. 49. Tremel . ibid. Genes . 3. 1. Petitio principij Idem , per idem . Wised . 2. 24. Ioh. 8. 44. Isa. 11. 6. Am. 4. 1. Math. 3. 7. Luc. 13. 32. Apoc. 12. 3. 4. 5. and 13. 1. 4. 11. and 20. 2. 2. Cor. 11. 3. Genes . 3. 1. Gen. 3. 1. 3. Gen. 3. 14. 15. Serpens , a serpendo , Isidor . de summo bono . lib. 3. Gen. 1. 25. 26. Exod. 4. 3. Gen. 3. 1. 14. Tho. Aquin. in 1. part . summa , 1. quest . art . 10. Amand. polanus in Syllog . Thess. de verbo Dei Didascalia , pag. 54. Aug. ad Gen. lib. 11. cap. 1. Iudg. 9. 8. 9. &c. Gregorius in moralibus . G. Alley in his poore mans librarie , 189. Pet. Martyr , in Gen. 3. 1. Aug. ad Genes . lib. 11. cap. 9. Aug. lib. in Gen. contra Manich. Tho. Aquinas 2. 2. quest . 165. artic . 2. Gregor . moral . lib. 20. Genes . 3. 1. 4. 5. 15. Cyril . lib. 3. contra lulian . Apostat . Apoc. 12. 9. Math. 3. 7. and 12. 34. Apoc. 12. 3. 4. 7. 10. 12. 15. 17. Apoc. 12. 9. and. 20. 2. Tremel . in Gen. 3. 1. Ioh. Caluin . in Gen. 3. 1. Reginald Skot , in his discouerie of witchcraft , lib. 17. pag. 537. Pet. Mart. in Gen. 1. 1. Tremel . in Gen. cap. 3. 1. In Reginald . Skot his discouerie of witchcraft . Ioh. Caluin . in Gen. 3. 15. Magist. sentent . lib. 2. distinct . 21. Isa. 65. 25. 2. Cor. 11. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aug. lib. 14. de ciuitat . Dei , cap. 11. Moses Barcephas , de paradis . lib. cap. 27. 1. Cor. 14. 7. Numb . 22. 28. Eccle. 4. 12. Numb . 22. 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Num. ●2 . 22. 24. 26. Numb . 22. 31. Numb . 22. 31. Lyra in Glos. or ordi●ar . super . Num. 22. 28. 1. Sam. 28. 14. 1. Sam. 28. 6. Exod. 22. 18. Leuit. 19. 31. & 20. 27. Deut. 18. 10. 1. Sam. 28. 14. Act. 14. 15. Apoc. 19. 10. and 1. 22. 9. 1. Sam. 28. 19. and 31. 6. 1. Chro. 10. 13. 14. M. Perkins in his treatise intituled , How far a reprobate may goe . 1. Sam. 28. 11. 12. 14. 15. 16. 20. 1. Sam. 28. 15. 1. Sam. 28. 19. Ioh. 8. 44. 1. Sam. 28. 16. 17. 18. 19. 1. Sam. 25. 1. In Chronograph , Laurentij Codmanni . 1. Sam. 31. 4. Ioh. 11. 39. Math. 24. 31. 1. Thes. 4. 16. Ioh. 5. 21. 28. 1. Cor. 15. 22. 38 Rom. 16. 20. Iude. 9. August . ad Simplicianum . Item , ad dulcitij quest . Tertul. lib. de anima . Chrysost. in Math. Iob. 19. 25. 26. Phil. 3. 20. 21. Phil. 1. 23. Apoc. 14. 13. Eccle. 46. 20. Iustin. Martyr . contra Trypho●em . Tertul. in lib. de anima . Ambr. in Lu● . I. lib. cap. 1. Hieron . in Isa. cap. 7. Decretal . quest . 26. cap. 6. Nec mirum . Lauaterus , of walking spirits Aug. ad Simplic . quest . 3. Item , in epistola ad Felicianū . Lyranus in 1. Sam. 28. Burgensis , in Replieator . ad Lyram , ibid. Reginald Skot in his discouerie of witchcraft . 1. Sam. 28. 11. 1. Sam. 28. 12. 1. Sam. 9. 2. 1. Sam. 28. 13. 1. Sam. 28. 13. 1. Sam. 28. 14. 1. Sam. 28. 14. 1. Sam. 28. 14. Hyppocrates , Epidem , lib. 5. sentent . 58. Ioh. Goraeus , in definit , medicin . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ Magister sentent , lib. 2. dist . 8. quest . 4. Math. 8. 28. Marc. 5. 1. Luc. 8. 28. Gennadius in definit . Ecclesdogmatum . Aug. de definit . Orthodox . fidei cap. 46. Beda in Act. 5. 3. Aug. de spiritu de anima , cap. 27. Chrysost. in Math. 4. 6. Nich. Lyra , in Marc. 9. 15. Muscul. in Psal. 23. 4. Gregorius Moral . llib . 2. Hermes Trismegistus , in suo periandro . Reginald Skot in his discouerie of witchcraft pag. 508. Iudg. 9. 7. &c. Notes for div A20000-e93100 ●orma dat esse . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 2. Cor. 11. 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theophil . in ● . Cor. 11. 14. Iohannes Caluin ibidem . Iohannes Caluin in Iob. 1. 10. Danaeus , in Enchir , Aug. cap. 60. pag. 202. Aug. de ciuit . Dei lib. 2. cap. 26. Act. 20. 34. 1. Cor. 9. 15. 2. Cor. 11. 13. 14. 15. 2. Cor. 11. 13. 14. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Math. 17. 2. Marc. 9. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Rom. 12. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Cor. 3. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Cor. 4. 6. Simul , & semel Veritati non preiudicet antiquitas . Aug. lib. 3. de trinit . cap. 8. Danaeus physica●● christiana , cap. 18. pag. 94. Psal. 33. Iob. 26. Isa , 45. Act. 17. 24. Exod. 7. 11. 12. and 8. 7. Aug. contra ●elicianum cap. 7. Damaeus physica christiana , cap. pag 58. Aug. de trinit , lib. 3. Philosophus in libro de generatione . Lucas Lassius , in Euangelia dominicalia , fol. 505. Philosophus de anima , lib. 2. Philosophus in lib. de som. & rigil . Hyperius , in method , theolog , lib. 2. pag. 311. Lyra in 1. Sanm cap. 16. 23. Magister sentent . lib. 2. dist . 7. fol. 87. M. Perkins in his order of the causes , 2. com . pag. 80. Hyperius , in method . theolog . lib. 2. pag. 310. Otho Casman . par . 2. Angelog . cap. 18. pag. 533 Hyperius , in method . theolog . lib. 2. pag. 314. M. Perkins in his order of causes vpon the 2. com . pag. 80. Pet. Martyr in in Gen. cap. 30. 33. fol. 125. Hieron . ad vitalem . Non valet natura , contra naturae dominum . Exod. 7. 13. Exod. 7. 12. Exod. 7. 11. Petere principium . Dan. 4. 13. Ioseph . de antiq . Iudaic. lib. 10. cap. 11. Dan. 4. 22. Dan. 4. 30. Dan. 4. 13. Tremel . in Dan. cap. 4. 16. Robertus Roll●cus , in Dan. 4. 16. George Ioye , in his Exposition vpon Dan. cap. 4. 13. Psal. 49. 20. Math. 19. 26. Hieron . in Daniel . Dan. 4. 13. Exod. 23. 2. Aug. de ciuit . Dei , lib. 8. cap. 18. Item , in libro de spiritu & anima , cap. 26. Ioh. 20. 27. Ioh. Bodin , de magic . daemon . lib. 2. cap. 6. None essentialis forma , id est ratio , sed figura solum permutatur . Aug. de ciuit . Dei , lib. 18. & cap. 17. 8 18. Cardan . de vanitate rerum , lib. 15. cap. 8. Aug. de ciuit . Dei , lib. 18. G. Gifford in his Dialogue of Witches . Otho Casman . Angelogr . par . 2. cap. 19. pag. 561. Marc. 6. 49. Luc. 24. 39. Tertul. contra Marcion . lib. 3. Aretius in Luc. 24. 39. Hugo Cardinal . in Iohannem , cap. 20. 29. Ioh. 20. 29. Math. 14. 26. Marc. 16. 14. Luc. 14. 39. Pompanac . de incantat . c. 2. O quam credula mens hominis , & erectae fabulis aures . See the liuely effect a melancholike humour , it being predominant . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Auicen . tract . 4. cap. 15. Paul. Aeginetus , lib. 3. cap. 15. Aetius lib. 6. cap. 11. Leonardus Fuchsius instit , medec . lib. 3. sect . 3. cap. 11. Auleen . tract . 4. de agritud . capitis , cap. 15. Phil. Barowgh . in method , physic . lib. 1. cap. 27. cap. 28. fol. 34. Leonard . Fuchs . Instit. Medeci , lib. 3. sect . 3. cap. 11. Auicen . tract . 3. de . apostemat . capitis , cap. 1. Auicen . tract . 4. de aegritud . capitis , cap. 16. Phil. Earowgh . in method . physic . lib. 1. cap. 27. 28. fol. 34. Otho Casman . Angelograph . par . 2. cap. 18. quest . 6. pag. 540. Hyperius in method , theolog , lib ▪ 2. pag. 310. Ioh. Wierus de praestig . daemon . lib. 4. cap. 23. Ancyranum concilium . Gratianus ibid. can . 26. q. 5. August . de spiritu & anima , cap. 23. Destructorium vitiorum , par . 6. cap. 49. Otho Casman . Angelograph . par . 2. cap. 19. q. 2. pag. 540. Anquirense concilium , Gratian , ibid. can . 26. q. 5. Prosper in libello de dono timoris . Destructorium vitiorum par . 6. cap. 49. Otho Casman . Angelograph . par . 2. cap. 18. q. 6. Malmesburij , degestis Anglorum lib. 6. M. Dorel in the title to his Apologie . Notes for div A20000-e113730 Gualter . in Math 8. 16. fol. 272. Ioh. 9. 1. Marc. 9. 25. Act. 3. 2. Math. 8. 28. Luc. 8. 26. 27. Luc. 8. 29. Math. 17. 15. Marc. 9. 26. Ioh. 5. 38. ● . Ioh. 4. 1. Exod. 23. 2. Math. 10. 7. Marc. 6. 7. Luc. 9. 1. & 10. 9. 17. Marc. 16. 20. Act. 16. 18. Marc. 16. 18. Luc. 24. 46. Act. 1. 8. Eph. 4. 13. D. Fulke to the Rhemish testament , in Math. cap. 17. vers . 19. sect . 5. Ioh. 15. 24. Math. 28. 19. Marc. 16. 15. Zanchius , in Eph. cap. 4. 11. pag. 178. Math. 10. 7. 8. Marc. 16. 20. Iustin. Martyr . contra Triphon . Tertul. de caena domini . Item in Apolog. cap. 23. Cyprian . lib. 4. epistola 7. Aug. de ciuit . Dei , lib. 22. Item Psal. 65. Concil . Bracharense . Iosep. Antiq. lib. 8. cap. 2. Wilelmus Minatensis , ration . diuinor . officior . D. Fulke to the Rhemish testament , in Marc. 13. 22. sect . 3. Psal. 45. 1. Rom. 12. 1. &c. 1. Cor. 12. &c. 1. Tim. 3. 1. &c. Tit. 1. 5. &c. Act. 20. 28. Colos. 4. 17. 1. Tim. 4. 13. 16. 2. Tim. 4. 1. 2. 1. Pet. 5. 1. 2. P●titlo principij . See Dorel his doctrine , pag. 31. See Paul his doctrine , pag. 31. Ioh. 1. 7. & 2. 2. 1. Pet. 5. 8. Katherine wright saith , she neuer did thinke she was possessed : but that M. Dorel would needs perswade her she was so . Ioh. 12. 31. 1. Cor. 15. 25. Non minor est . virtus , quam , quaerere , parta tueri . Gen. 3. 15. Ioh. 13. 2. Apoc. 13. 8. Ioh. Caluin . in Heb. cap. 9. 26. 1. Ioh. 5. 4. Heb. 9. 26. Heb. 9. 11. 12. 24. 25. Bulling . in Heb. cap. 9. 26. Pellican . in Heb. 9. 25. Heb. 9. 26. Heb. 9. 27. 28. Pet. Martyr . in Gen. 3. 15. Ioh. Caluin . in Gen. 3. 15. Luc. 11. 20. 21. Gualt . in Luc. 11. homil . 115. Mosculus , in Math. 12. 29. D. Hil. in his treatise of Christ his descension , sol . 63. H. Iaacob in his treatise of Christs his sufferings , pag. 161. Aug. in Ioh. cap. 12. 31. tract . 52. Ioh. Caluin . ibid Item , Ioh. 16. 11 Muscul. in Ioh. 16. 11. Heb. 2. 14. Henr. Bulling . in Heb. 2. 14. Aug. in Ioh. cap. 14. 30. tract . 95. Ioh. 12. 31. and 16. 11. Ioh. 14. 30. M. Bucer . in Ioh. 14. 30. Muscul. in Ioh. 14. 30. Aug. in Ioh. 14 , 30. tract . 79. Item ibid. tract . 95. Beza annotat . in Hebr. cap. 2. 14. Theophil . in Ioh. 12. 31. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , constringere , exterminare , disperdere . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est euacuare , dissoluere , irritum facere , Heb. 2. 14. 1. Ioh. 3. 8. Gen. 3. 15. Luc. 11. 20. Gal. 4. 4. Ioh. 12. 31. Heb. 2. 14. 1. Ioh. 3. 8. Ioh. 12. 31. Ioh. 12. 20. Ioh. 12. 21. Ioh. 12. 22. Ioh. 12. 23. Ioh. 12. 24. Ioh. 12. 25. Ioh. 12. 26. 1. Pet. 2. 21. Ioh. 12. 27. Ioh. 12. 28. Ioh. 12. 28. Ioh. 12. 29. Ioh. 12. 30. Ioh. 12. 31. Ioh. 12. 32. Ioh. 12. 33. Ioh. 19. 30. August . in Euang . Ioh. cap. 12. tract . 52. Rom. 1. 25. Act. 3. 16. Apoc. 13. 8. August . in Ioh. cap. 12. 31. tract . 52. Ioh. 7. 39. 2. Pet. 1. 21. Act. 2. 4. & 2. 17. 18. August . ibid. Ioh. 12. 31. Aliud est intrinsecus regnare : aliud forinsecus pugnare . Eph. 6. 13. &c. 1. Ioh. 2. 1. 2. Math. 6. 12. Luc. 11. 4. Math. 6. 13. Luc. 11. 4. Chrysost. ibid. Mittetur deorsum . Theophilac . in Ioh. cap. 12. 3 ▪ . Nich. Lyra in Ioh. 12. 31. Hugo Cardin. in Ioh. cap. 12. 31. Petr. Lambert . lib. 2. dist . 6. Ludulph . de vita Christi . Ioh. 12. 31. Martin . Bucer . in Ioh. 12. 31. Muscul. in Ioh. 12. 31. Ioh. Caluin . in Ioh. 12. 31. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ● . Iudicium , sententia iudicij . Item , pro mensura , & dispositione accipitur . Hemingij Postilla dominic , 4. post pasch . pag. 370. Math. 26. 42. Marc. 15. 30. 32. Act. 2. 3. 4. Math. 10. 20. Luc. 12. 12. Act. 6. 10. Gualter . in Math. 8. 16. fol. 272. Isa. 49. 8. 9. Marc. 1. 24. Ioh. Brentius in Marc. 1. 24. Gen. 3. 15. Heb. 2. 14. Marc. 1. 24. Luc. 10. 21. 22. Luc. 13. 32. 33. Rom. 1. 4. Eph. 1. 19. 20. Luc. 13. 32. Erasm. Sarcer . in Act. 4. 30. Math. 12. 39. 40. Luc. 10. 29. 30. 1. Cor. 14. 30. 31. 1. Cor. 13. 8. Notes for div A20000-e134210 Horat. Art. — pictoribus , atque poêtis Quid libet audendi semper fuit aequa potestas . Aristot. de admirandis auditionibus . Plin. historia natural . Proclus , in lib. de sacrificio & magia . Aug. de ciuit . Dei , lib. 12. cap. 4. 5. Albert. Magn. lib. 2. Minoralium , cap. 1. 12. 17. Fracastor . in lib. de Sympath . Ficinus , lib. 4. Theolog Plat. Cardanus , de subtilitate , & varietate rerum . Act. 17. 21. Plin. lib. 2. cap. 96. Thom. Coper . Thesaurus . Strabo , in Geographia . Plin. ibid. cap. 107. Plin. ibid. cap. 103. Thom. Coper . Thesaurus . Plin. ibid. Plin. lib. vlt. cap. 4. Aristot. de hist. animalium . Plin. lib. 32. cap. 11. Aug. de ciui● . Dei lib. 24. cap. 23. Paul. AEginat . lib. 3. cap. 15. Aetius , lib. 6. cap. 11. Leuinius Lemnius . Auicen . tract . 3 de apostemat . capitis , cap. 1. Ioh. Wierus de praestigijs Daemon . lib. 4. cap. 25. Leuinius . Lemnius . Gen. 1. 1. &c. Rom. 4. 17. 2. Cor. 4. 6. Gen. 1. 3. Iob. 41. 2. Isa. 44. 24. Isa. 42. 8. Natura principiorum amat singularitatem . Danaeus , physica christiana , par . 1. fol. 92. Isa. 45. 18. Ioh. 1. 8. Act. 17. 28. Colos. 1. 16. Aug. de trinit . lib. 3. cap. 8. Damascen . de Orthodox . fide lib. 20. August . tract . in Ioh. 2. & 3. A quo vermes creantur , ab eodem & Angeli . In the 5. Dialog . fol. 77. 78. Act. 1. 9. 10. 11 George Gifford in his discouerie of Witches . Pet. Martyr . in 1. Sam. 28. & loc . com . 9. fol. 67. Arist. de anima lib. 2. See M. Dorels Narration , to the 16. obiection fol. 4. pag. 1. He saith , if M. D. would say or sweare that Sommers did such things , he was not to be credited . Because , none by teaching or learning : can practise impossibilities . Item , in M. D. Apolog. pag. 10. videlicet , Supernaturall , Actions , Strenght , Knowledge . The Diuell in likenes of a mouse , a blacke dogge . His bodie in lenght beyond the tallest man. His hands , feete , face , and haire not burnt , he being in the fire , &c. Kitlings creeping in his bed , &c. Diuinitie . Philosophie . Physicke . Nature . Lawe . Conscience . L. absent de paenis . L. 2. cum . gloss . Delictum sine consensu , non potest committi , neque iniuria sine animo ●●siurandi . See M. Dorels Narration , the 2. answere to the 2. obiection , fol. 2. pag. 2. Sommers is not to be beleeued , affirming impossiblities . Item , in Apolog . pag. 15. Sanae mentis voluntas , voluntas rei possibilis est . Iob. 5. 10. Iob. 38. 28. Psal. 135. 7. Ierem. 5. 24. and 14. 22. Act. 14. 17. Iam. 5. 18. Danaeu● in physic christiana . tract . 1. cap. 6. fol. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Arist. physic . lib. Aug. Enchir. cap. 87. Plutarch . de placit . philosoph . lib. 5. cap. 8. Hieron . epist. ad vital●m . Ni●eph . histor . eccles lib. 12. cap. 37. & 18. 33. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Auenarius in Lexic . Hebraic . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Experientia . Experience , what it is ? 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Ierem. 23. 29. 1. Cor. 3. 13. Heb. 4. 12. Act. 20. 27. Act. 20. 26. Epistolae Paul● ad Timotheum , & Titum . Eph. 2. 2. 2. Tim. 2. 26. Eph. 2. 2. 2. Tim. 2. 26. Eph. 2. 1. 3. Eph. 6. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. Act. 20. 26. 1. Pet. 5. 8. Luc. 22. 31. Mart. 16. 20. The diuell his power of obsession . What it is ? Math. 4. 2. Iob. 1. 15. 18. 19. Iob. 2. 7. 2. Sam. 24. 8. 1. Chron. 21. 1. Math. 4. 8. 2. Sam 11. 4. Numb . 25. 3. Luc. 22. 3. Ioh. 13. 2. 27. Iam. 1. 14. 15. 1. King. 22. 22. 2. Chron. 18. 21. 2. Thes. 2. 9. 11. Reuel . 16. 14. 2. Cor. 12. 8. Luc. 22. 31. Math 12 45. Act. 5. 3. Iob. 1. 7. & 2. 2. Reue● . 2. 10. Rom. 7. 23. Rom. 7. 24. Phil. 1. 23. Eph. 4. 18. Math. 4. 18. Luc. 1. 79. Math. 13. 25. 2. Cor. 4. 4. 2. Tim 3. 26. Ephes. 4. 17. 18. 19. Rom. 1. 13. 2. Thes. 2. 18. Math. 9. 32. Ioh. 2. 23. Ioh. 12. 11. and 34. 3. Rom. 10. 17. Isa. 6. 9. Zach. 3. 1. 2. Cor. 12. 7. 2. Tim. 2. 25 , 26. & 3. 8. Iude 9. Math. 13. 19. 1 King 22 2. Math. 13. 25. Gen. 3. 3. Mart. 14. 58. Luc. 24. 21. Luc. 22. 3. Ioh. 13. 27. Act. 5. 3. Math. 12. 45. Act. 8. 22. 23. 2. Tim. 2. 25. 26. & 3. 8. & 4. 14. 15. Math. 8. 29. Marc. 5. 7. Luc. 8. 28. Act 16. 17. Math. 16. 22. & 22. 16. Luc. 22. 31. Math. 22. 15. Ioh 8 4. 5. Luc 22. 3. Ioh. 13. 2. Reuel . 12. 3. Reuel . 2. 10. Ioh 1. 2. Ioh. 8. 44. Notes for div A20000-e153410 〈…〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Exod. 8. 17. Augustinus Cyri●●us . Didimus Alexandr . lib. de spirit . sanct . Hugo Etherianus de processione spiritus sancti . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Math. 12. 28. Luc. 11. 20. Math. 10. 7. 8. Marc. 6. 7. & 16. 20. Luc. 9. 1. & 10. 9. Marc. 9. 38. Act. 16. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Isa 9. 7. Math. 12. 29. Marc. 3. 27. Luc. 11. 21. 22. 1. Ioh. 3. 8. Act. 16. 18. Hieronimus , Christus potestatiuè sugabat Daemones : Aposto●i nomine eius . Math. 10. 7. 8. Marc. 6. 7. Luc. 9. 1. Act. 16. 18. Marc. 16. 20. Marc. 9. 38. Luc. 10. 9. 17. 18. 19. 1. Cor. 3. 6. Luc. 9. 42. Luc. 10. 9. 17. 18. 19. Marc. 9. 38. 1. Cor. 3. ● . Math. 15. 13. Aretij problem . Loc. 67. fol. 210 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ● . Cor. 11. 13. 15 ▪ 2. Thes. 2. 9. 10. Math. 7. 22. Act. 19. 13. 14. Tobit . 8. 3. Marc. 5. 7. Eph. 2. 11. 12. 13. Act. 19. 13. 14. Cyprian , in serm . de bapt . Act. 19. 16. Marc. 9. 38. Luc. 9. 49. Math. 7. 22. 2. Thes. 2. 11. 12 ▪ See M. Dorels briefe Narration , fl . 5. pag. ● ▪ Marc. 16. 20. Math. 12. 28. and 16. 1. Marc. 8. 11. Luc. 12. 54. See M. Dorels Apologie , fol. 10 Marc. 1. 26. and 9. 26. Marc. 1. 26. and 9. 26. Marc. 9. 26. Marc. 9. 25. 26. Luc. 9. 42. Math. 8. 32. Marc. 5. 13. Luc. 8. 33. and 10. 17. Acts. 16. 18. Marc. 9. 38. Psellus , in lib. de daemonibus . Petr. Thyraeus , Thess. 590. Coelius Rhod. lect . antiq . lib. 1. cap. 29. Mediacreata , ad actiones supernaturales , effectiuè , se non extendunt . Quidlibet , ex quolibet . August . in Gen. 9. Item , de trinitate , cap. 8. Iosephus , de Bello Iudaie . Iosephus , de Antiq. Iudait . Iosephus de bello Iudai● . AElianus . Wierus , de praestigijs daemon . lib. 4. Instrumenta creata , ad actiones supernaturales , non possunt se effectiuè extendere . 2. King. 4. 33. Tob. 8. 2. 3. Hieron . in prolog . Galeat . Otho Casman . Augelograph . par . 2. cap. 17. Quest. 10. Tob. 6. 7. Tob. 8. 3. 1. Sam. 16. 23. Apuleius . 1. Sam. 16. 23. 1 ▪ Sam. 16. 23. 1. Sam. 16. 23. 1. Sam. 16. 23. 1. Sam. 16. 15. 16. Philosophus , in 2. de anima . Actus actiuorum , sunt in patiente praedisposito . Iohannes de Bromyard , in summa praedicat . E. 7. 11. Inhabentibus qualitates similimas : facilior fiat transmutatio . Plinius , in annotat . lib. 2. cap. 19. Musculus , in Math. 17. 15. Beza , in Math. 8. 16. Aretius , in Math. 8. 16. Caluinus , in Math. 17. 15. Hugo Card. in Math. 4. 24. Pet. Martyr , in Iudic. cap. 5. Item , in loc . com . clas . 3. tit . de musica & carminibus . Pythagoras . Damascenus , Philosophus , in 4. Ethic. Auicen . lib. 3. tract . 4. cap. 17. Phil. Barrough , de method . curandi lib. 3. ●●p . 27. August . in 10 ▪ confes . 1. Sam. 9. 2. 1. Sam. 16. 14. Math. 11. 29. Luc. 11. 21. 26. Math. 17. 15. Marc. 9. 18. 21. Luc. 9. 38. 42. See M. Dorels breife Narrat . in the disposition of William Aldred , the 5. deponent . See M. Dorels Apologie , in pag. 31. Iohannes King , in Ionath . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Communitèr author fateor : sed , non nisi boni fautor . Iob. 1. 12. & 2. 6. & 33. 26. 2. King 3. 15. Virtus actiua , quae potest in maius : potest etiam in minu● . 1 Sam. 16. 16. Tremelius , in 2. Reg. cap. 3. vers . 15. nota . 10. 2. King. 4. 24. Virtus creata , ad actus , aut habitus supernaturales ; se non extendit . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Tertullianus , Hieronimus . Euseb. hist. eccles . lib. 5. cap. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Quicquid effici● tale : idipsum est magis tale . Hieron . epist. ad Demetriad . tom . 1. Gratian. q. 14. cap. 2. Anima . Sentent . in 4. Pet. Martyr , loc . com . class . 3. cap. 10. sect . 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . See M. Darels Narration , fol. 5. pag. 2. See M Darels Narration , fol. 6. pag. 1. See M. Darel● Apologie , in pag. 32. Math. 17. 21. Marc. 9. 39. See M. Darels Narration , fol. 5. pag. 2. See M. Darels Apologie , pag. 32. See M. Darels Apologie , pag. 32. Notes for div A20000-e172190 See M. Darels Apologie , pag. 32. Math. 17. 21. Marc. 9. 39. See M. Darels Narration , fol. 5. pag. 2. Math. 17. 21. Marc. 9. 39. Rom. 12. 6. &c. 1. Cor. 12. 28. 1. Tim. in al. Tit. in al. 1. Pet. 5. 8. 9. Eph. 6. 11. 12. D. Apolog. pag. 32. D. Apolog. pag. 32. Ioh. Caluin . in Math. 17. 21. Henr. Bullinger in Math. 17. 21 See Rhemish testament in Math. 17. 21. sect . 7. D. Fulke his answere to the Rhem. testament , Math. 17. 21. sect . 7. See. M. Darels Narration , fol. 1. pag. 1. See M. Darels Apologie , pag. 31. 32. Perse , aut per alios . Math. 7. 6. Luc. 11. 4. Act. 8. 22. Act. 8. 24. 1. Thes. 5. 32. Exod. 4. 15. 16. See M. Darels . Narration , in the depositions of William Aldred , the 5. diponent , fol. 8. pag. 7. Gen. 4. 4. Iudg. 17. 5. 6. Numb . 16. 18. 1. Chr. 13. 9. 10. Act. 5. 36. 37. Rom. 12. 6. Heb. 5. 4. Act. 20. 28. 1. Pet. 5. 2. 1. Tim. 5. 19. 20. Act. 19. 15. 16. M. Aldredge maister of Arts and an ancient authorized preacher . See M. Darels Narration , in the depositions of Thomas Haies , fol. 7. See Narration , ibid. pag. 2. See the Narration in William Aldred his depositions , fol. 8. pag. 1. See M. Darel his Narration , fol. 8. pag. 2. See M. Darels Narration , fol. 5. pag. 1. & fol. 8. pag. 2. Augustini epistola , 137. Memorem mendacem esse ●portet . See. M. Darels Narration , fol. 1. pag. 1. Rhem. testament , Luc. 4. 23. sect . 3. See D. Fulke contra Rhem. Luc. 4. 23. sect . 3. Item , ibid. 1. Cor. 12. 9. sect . 2. See M. Darels Narration , fol. 1. pag. 1. 2. Thes. 2. Math. 24. 23. 24. 2. Thes. 2. 9. 10. Luc. 6. 19. In eodemn●mero . Wised . 7. 27. Luc. 6. 19. Leo , in epist. ad Flauianum . Psalm . 136. 4. Opera miracu losa excedunt totam virtutem naturae creatae . Phil. 2. 7. 8. Heb. 2. 14. Eph. 1. 19. Phil. 3. 21. Luc. 24. 19. Act. 20. 28. 1. Tim. 3. 16. Gen. 1. 3. 14. Ioh. 1. 1. 2. Col. 1. 16. Psalm . 136. 4. Rhem. testament , Marc. 3. 10. sect . 1. Math. 9. 21. 22. Marc. 5. 27. and 6. 56. Luc. 8. 45. and 6. 19. D. Fulke contra Rhem. testament , Marc. 3. 10. sect . 1. Ambrose in Luc. lib. 6. cap. 8. Math. 26. 49. Marc. 15. 17. 20. Ioh. 18. 22. Luc. 8. 41. 45. Beda in Marc. lib. 1. cap. 3. Psal. 136. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mammilla implens . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Acer●us bono●um omnium . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Suis vberibus omnia alens . Psal. 135. 6. Act. 2. 2● . Act. 4. 30. Aug. Marlorat . in Math. cap. 28. 20. Act. 3. 12. Act. 5. 12. Act. 19. 11. 12. Hieronimus , Marc. Vigerius , Decachord . chord . 8. 45. fol. 191. Theod. Beza , ad Brentij argumenta , de carnis Christiomnipraesentia . August . de ●iui●at . Dei , lib. 22. Gregorius , Dialog . lib. ● ▪ Ioh. 1. 12. Math. 7. 22. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Theod. Beza , in annotat . super Ioh. 1. 12. Gylberius Longolius in Lexic . Graec. Theod. Beza , in annotat , super Ioh. 1. 12. Iohan. Caluin , in Ioh. 1. 12. Ioh. 1. 12. 13. Iohannes Calin Ioh. 1. 12. 13. Act. 9. 40. Act. 5. 5. 1. Cor. 12. 10. Psal. 136. 4. D. Fulke in Rhem. testamēt , Act. 3. 12. sect . 4. 5. Act. 5. 12. Ioh. Caluin . in Act. ▪ cap. 5. 5. 2. Cor. 2. 13. 14. Ioh. Caluin . in Act. cap. 5. 5. Isa. 11. 4. Philosophus lib. 2. de anima . Rhem. testament , in Marx. 6. 13. sect . 7. Ioh. 9. 6. Luc. 8. 44. Marc. 6. 13. Act. 5. 15. & 19. 11. 12. & 5. 12. D. Fulke contra Rhem. testament in Marc. 6. 13. sect . 7. Item ▪ ibid. in Marc. 7. 33. sect . 4. Psal. 135. 6. Math. 26. 26. Ioh. 6. 52. Iude 10. Cant. 2. 9. Exod. 33. 20. 22. Ioh. 1. 18. 1. Tim. 6. 16. Aug. Marlorat . 〈◊〉 Ioh. 14. 12. Ioh. 16. 23. Luk. 9. 54. 2. King. 1. 10. Luc. 9. 54. 2. King. 1. 10. Ioh. 16. 23. Musculus in Ioh. 14. 13. 2. King 1. 10. Act. 4. 30. Math. 9. 11. 12. 13. Marc. 9. 24. Eph. 6. 18. 19. Coloss. 4. 2. 1. Thes. 5. 17. 23 ● . Thes. 3. 1. Math. 17. 21. Musculus in Math. cap. 17. 21. See M. Darels Apolog. in pag. 32. See M. Darels Narration , fol. 5. pag. 2. M Darel was said to cast 7. diuels out of Katherine Wright : if you list to beleeue him therein , and to note eche diuell by his seuerall name . Math. 17. 21. Luc. 17. 6. Marc. 9. 23. Math. 13. 58. Marc. 6. 5. Bullinger , in Math. 13. 58. Caluin , in Math. 13 58. Gualter . in Math. 13. 58. Musculus , in Math. 13. 58. Math. 9 22. Marc. 5. 34. Luc. 8. 48. Math. 17. 20. Luc. 17. 6. Math. 7. 22. 1. Cor. 13. 2. Heb. 6. 4. 5. 6. Heb. 6. 5. 6. Rom. 5. 1. 2. 3. 2. Pet. 1. 5. 6. 7. Heb. 11. 32. 33. 34. 35. 36. 37. 38. Marc. 16. 17. 18. Pet. Martyr , in 2. Cor. cap. 12. 11 Item , in loc . com . class . 1. cap. 8. sect . 20. Aug. Marlorat . in Math. cap. 28. 19. Iohannes Caluin . in Math. cap. 28. 19. 1. Cor. 12. 9. Theod. Beza , annot . in 1. Cor. 12. 9. editione 4. Ioh. Caluin in 1. Cor. 12. 9. Math. 17. 20. Marc. 16. 17. Luc. 7. 6. Math. 7. 22. 1. Cor. 12. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Numb . 20. 12. Math. 17. 20. Math. 14. 31. Marc. 16. 15. Marc. 16. 17. Hugo Cardinal . in Marc. cap. 16. 17. Marc. 16. 20. Chrysost. in Math. 17. 20. Sebast. Meyer , in 1. Cor. cap. 12. 9. Bullinger , in Math. 17. 20. Moses Pellach . Analys . typic . Math. cap. 17. 20. Aretius , in Math. 17. 20. 1. Cor. 13. 2. Ioh. Caluin . in Math. cap. 17. 20. Musculus , in Math. cap. 17. 20. Pet. Martyr in loc . com . class . 1. cap. 8. sect . 14. Iam. 2. 19. Tit. 1. 1. Aug. Marlorat . in Math. cap. 17. 20. Ioh. Caluin . in Math. 17. 20. 1 Cor. 12. 9. Pet. Martyr , loc . com . clas . 1. cap. 8. sect . 14. Math. 7. 22. 1. Cor. 13. 2. Math. 17. 20. Notes for div A20000-e198880 D. Apol. 32. 33. D. 1. Narrat . pag. 10. D. doct . pag. 59. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psal. 139. 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psal. 118. 23. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Exod. 34. 10. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iob. 37. 16. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Miraculum , q. oculi mirum . Prodigium , portentum , monstrum . A miracle , What it is ? The efficient cause . The materiall cause . The finall cause . Two kinds of miracles . A true miracle , what ? A false miracle , what ? False miracles may be effected three manner of of waies . Aug. de trinit . lib. 3. Philosophus , de som. & vigil . libr. Magister sentent . lib. 2. dist . 7. fol. 87. Haet autem omnia , ratione nostri , vel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , appellantur miracula . Applicatio praemissorum , ad praesent negetium . Act. 8. 9. 1. Cor. 11. 3. Gal. 3. 1. See M. Darel● Apolog. pag. 32. See M. Darel● Apolog. pag. 32. Math. 28. See M. Darels Apolog. pag. 33. See M. Darels Apolog. pag. 33. See M. Darels Apolog. pag. 33. See M. Darels Doct. in pag. 59. See M. Darels Apolog. pag. 33. Numb . 31. 9. 10 and 26. 10. Psal. 74. 4. Isa. 13. 2. and 30. 17. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Exod. 4. 8. Deut. 13. 1. 2. 1. Chro. 16. 12. Psal. 105. 5. Exod. 7. 3. & 11. 9. 10. Deut. 13. 1. 2. 1. Chro. 16. 12. Ezec. 12. 6. 11. Ioel. 2. 30. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cognationem habet cum . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. persuasit , vt verie R. D. Kimhi . Pagnin . in thesauro sanctae linguae . Deut. 13. 1 , 2. Psalm . 105. 5. Exod. 7. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Psalm . 71. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nam , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , est litera similitudinis . Et exponitur , periudè , sicut , quasi , velut , veluti , vt , ita , sic , &c. Non simplicitèr sed secundum quid . Titelman . in Elucidat psalm . Psalm . 70. 8. Tremel . in Psal. 71. 7. annotat . 7. Ezech. 12. 6. 11. Ioel. 2. 30. 31. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ezech. 12. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ezech. 12. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Luc. 5. 26. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Math. 21. 15. Mart. 12. 11. Ioh. 9. 30. Apoc. 15. 1. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Mat. 12. 38. 39. Luc. 8. 11. 12. Luc 11. 16. 29. Ioh. 4. 48. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Math. 24. 24. Marc. 13. 22. Ioh. 4. 48. Act. 2. 43. & 4. 30. & 5. 12. & 6. 8. & 7. 36. & 15. 12. 2. Cor. 12. 12. Heb , 2. 3. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 3. iteratio , traductio : eiusdem verbi , aut sermonis repetitio . 2. Sam. 18. 33. Psalm . 2. 3. 4. Ezech. 7. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. Dan. 9. 19. Gen. 41. 25. 32. Ioh. Caluin . in Heb. 2. 3. 4. Theod. Beza , in annotat . ad Heb. 2. 3. 4. Edw. Dearin , in his 7. Reading , Hebr. 2. 3. 4. Marc. 16. 20. Heb. 2. 2. 3. 4. See M. Darel his Apologie , pag. 33. Exod. 7. 20. Exod. 8. 6. Exod. 8. 17. Exod. 9. 10. Exod. 9. 23. Exod. 10. 13. Exod. 10. 22. Exod. 14. 21. Exod. 17. 6. 2. King. 2. 24. 2. King. 5. 14. 2. King. 6. 6. Ioh. 9. 6. Luc. 8. 44. Marc. 6. 13. Act. 5. 15. Act. 19. 12. See. M. Darels Apolog. pag. 33. See Apolog. pag. 32. Exod. 8. 12. 30. Exod. 17. 11. 1. King. 17. 20. 21. 2. King. 4. 33. 2. King. 6. 17. Ioh. 11. 41. Act. 9. 40. Act. 16. 25. 26. Act. 20. 10. Iam. 5. 14. 15. Math. 24. 24. 2. Thes. 2. 9. 10. Danaeus in physic . christiana , tract . 4. cap. 34. fol. 174. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Psal. 136. 4. Aug. de ciuit . Dei , lib. 21. Hieron . ad vitalem . Math. 24. 24. 2 , Thes. 2. 9. 10. See M. Darels Narrat . fol. 5. pag. 2. Ibidem , a little after . See M. Darels Apolog. pag. 32. See M. Darels Narrat . 1. pag. 10. See his doctrine for this , pag. 30. Math. 12. 39. 40. Ionah . 2. 17. Ioh. Caluin . in Math. 12. 39. Erasm. Sarcerius in Math. 12. 39. Item , in Act. 4. vers . 30. Marc. 16. 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Heb. 2. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Heb. 2. 2. 3. 4. See M. Darels Narrat . fol. 5. pag. 2. See M. Darels Narrat . fol. 5. pag. 2. See M. Darels Narrat . fol. 6. pag. 1. Luc. 16. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. See M. Darels Narrat . fol. 6. pag. 1. Reginald Skot in his discouerie of Witchcraft . D. F●lke , in 2. Thes ▪ ● . sect . 15. B●stow . Marc. 16. 17. 28. D. Cooper , in his sermons , pag. 78 Math. 7. 15. and 24. 23. 24. See M. Darels Narrat . fol. 6. pag. 1. See M. Darels Narration , fol. 4. pag. 2. 1. Ioh. 4. 1. Iob. 32. 9. Iob. 32. 8. Iob. 32. 6. 7. Iob. 32. 11. 12. Iob. 32. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. Musculus in Ioh. 20. 29. Act. 1. 22. Luc. 11. 28. Ioh. 20. 29. Ioh. 20. 31. Rhem. testamen . in Ioh. 15. 24. sect . 7. Item , 2. Cor. 12. vers . 12. sect . 5. 1. Tim. 3. 14. 15. & 4. 15. 16. & 5. 7. 21. & 6. 13. 14. Tit. 1. 5. & 2. 1. 15. & 3. 8. 9. Rhem. testam . in Math. 17. 19. sect . 5. Item Marc. 13. 21. sect . 3. Item 2. Thes. 2. 9. sect . 15. D. Cooper in his sermons , pag. 78. Deut. 3. 1. 2. Math. 24. 24. Marc. 13. 2. 2. 2. Thes. 2. 9. 10. Apoc. 13. 13. 14. & 16. 14. & 19. 26. Psal. 19. 7. 2. Tim. 3. 15. Math. 10. 7. Marc. 6. 7. & 16. 20. Luc. 10. 9. 17. August . Confes. lib. 10. cap. 35. Aug. de ver● relig . lib. 11. cap. 25. Item , retract . 1. cap. 13. Chrisost. in Ioh. 2. hom . 22. in fine . Chrysost. in Math. 24. hom . 49. Item , in 1. Cor. 2. homil . 6. Glos. ordinar . in Marc. 16. 17. Nich. Lyra , in Marc. 16. 17. Hugo Cardinal . in Marc. 16. 17 Isidor . lib. de sum . bono . cap. 25. Theod. Beza Annotat. in Marc. 6. 13. Item , in Iames cap. 5. 14. M. Caluin . in Ioh. 20. 31. Bee-hyue of the Rom. church , cap. 2. fol. 233. 2. King. 4. 34. 1. Cor. 12. 28. Act. 20. 10. Iam. 5. 14. D. Cooper , in his sermons , pag. 78 D. Fulke to the Rhem. test . Mat. 17. 19. sect . 5. Item , ibid. in Marc. 13. 22. sect . 3. M. Dearing , his 7. Reading , Heb. 2. 4. Isa. 30. 22. Math. 12. 38. 1. Cor. 1. 22. Math. 15. 28. Luc. 16. 29. 31. 1. Cor. 14. 22. Pet. Martyr . in 1. Cor. 12. 11. Ioh. Caluin . in Act. 14. 11. Musculus , in Ioh. 1. 37. Bullinger , in Math. 10. 1. Gualter , in Math. 8. 16. Erasm. Sarcer . in Act 4. 30. Aug. de verit . accles . cap. 16. Tertul. con● . Marcion , lib. 3. Hyppocrates . See Skots booke of the discouerie of Witchcraft . fol. 453. Psal. 7. 9. 2. Cor. 13. 8. Prou. 28. 26. Notes for div A20000-e222020 The necessitie of recapitulating the premisses . 2. Cor. 13. 1. A summarie abridgement of the first Dialogue . A summarie abridgement of the second Dialogue . A summarie abridgement of the 3. Dialogue . A summarie abridgement of the 4. Dialogue . A summarie abridgement of the 5. Dialogue . A summarie abridgement of the 6. Dialogue . A summarie abridgement of the 7. Dialogue . A summarie abridgement of the 8. Dialogue . A summarie abridgement of the 9. Dialogue . A summarie abridgement of the 10. Dialogue . Isa. 1. 16. 17. Aug. in Psalm . 34. part . 2. Math. 5. 10. 1. Pet. 3. 13. 1. Pet. 2. 20. Eius est dest●uere : cuius : est construere . Gal. 6. 1. 2. Hieronimus , contra Luciferianos . Humanum est errare : Diabolicum perseuerare . See M. Darels Apolog. pag. 3● August , in sermone . Seneca de moribus .