A42401	----	An answer to a printed book, falsely intituled, A blow at the serpent It being truly a blow of the serpent, lately published by one Richard Coppin. Wherein, among many others, these following heresies, and abominable errours of his, are briefly, and plainly confuted out of the word of God. 1 That the deitie of Christ was united to the sinful nature of man, and consequently that his conception was impure. 2 That there is no resurrection of the body. 3 That the pains of Hell are not eternal. 4 That there is no general day of judgement, but such a temporal judgement only as befals men in this world. 5 That God will not destroy any man, but only sin in man. 6 That all shall be saved, the divel not excepted. 7 That the humane nature of Christ is not ascended into Heaven. By Edward Garland M.A. and minister of Gods word at Hartclip [sic] in Kent. Garland, Edward. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A42401 of text R223638 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing G259A). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 195 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 47 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A42401 Wing G259A ESTC R223638 99833927 99833927 38405 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A42401) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 38405) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1830:16) An answer to a printed book, falsely intituled, A blow at the serpent It being truly a blow of the serpent, lately published by one Richard Coppin. Wherein, among many others, these following heresies, and abominable errours of his, are briefly, and plainly confuted out of the word of God. 1 That the deitie of Christ was united to the sinful nature of man, and consequently that his conception was impure. 2 That there is no resurrection of the body. 3 That the pains of Hell are not eternal. 4 That there is no general day of judgement, but such a temporal judgement only as befals men in this world. 5 That God will not destroy any man, but only sin in man. 6 That all shall be saved, the divel not excepted. 7 That the humane nature of Christ is not ascended into Heaven. By Edward Garland M.A. and minister of Gods word at Hartclip [sic] in Kent. Garland, Edward. [8], 84 p. printed for Philemon Stephens in St. Pauls Church Yeard [sic], London : 1657. In answer to Richard Coppin's "A blow at the serpent; or a gentle answer from Madiston prison to appease wrath". Reproduction of the original at the British Library. eng Coppin, Richard, fl. 1646-1659. -- Blow at the serpent; or a gentle answer from Madiston prison to appease wrath -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800. Blasphemy -- Early works to 1800. Universalism -- Early works to 1800. A42401 R223638 (Wing G259A). civilwar no An answer to a printed book, falsely intituled, A blow at the serpent. It being truly a blow of the serpent, lately published by one Richard Garland, Edward 1657 36373 29 35 0 0 0 0 18 C The rate of 18 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-01 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-01 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-04 Emma (Leeson) Huber Sampled and proofread 2007-04 Emma (Leeson) Huber Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion An Answer To a printed BOOK , falsely Intituled , A BLOW AT THE SERPENT . It being truly A BLOW of the SERPENT , lately published by one Richard Coppin . Wherein , among many others , these following Heresies , and Abominable Errours of his , are briefly , and plainly confuted out of the Word of God . 1 That the Deitie of Christ was united to the sinful Nature of MAN , and consequently that his conception was impure . 2 That there is no Resurrection of the body . 3 That the pains of Hell are not eternal . 4 That there is no General Day of Judgement , but such a Temporal judgement only as befals MEN in this world . 5 That God will not destroy any MAN , but only Sin in MAN . 6 That all shall be saved , the Divel not excepted . 7 That the Humane Nature of Christ is not ascended into Heaven . By EDWARD GARLAND M. A. and Minister of Gods Word at HARTCLIP in KENT . Vt homo circa Mortem Phantasias videt , sic et Mundus in exitu suo multos patietur Errores . Chrysost. in Mat. Hom. 48. 2. Pet. 2. 1. 2. 3. But there were false Prophets also among the People , even as there shall be false Teachers among you , who privily shall bring in most damnable Heresies , even denying the Lord that bought them , and bring upon themselves swift destruction . And many shall follow their pernicious ways , by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of . And through covetousness shall they , with fained words make Merchandize of you , whose judgement now of a long time lingreth not , and their Damnation slumbreth not . LONDON Printed for Philemon Stephens in St. Pauls Church Yeard , 1657. To the worshipful his much honoured friend and kinsman Robert Watson of Friendsbury in Kent . Esq Worthy Sir , I Have read over Coppins Book which you were pleased to leave with me . And I finde it to be a magazine of Heresies , a Pandora's box full of dangerous poyson , which Satan hath sent him with into the world to infect the people of God . Indeed it is painted over with a golden title , for he calls it truth triumphing against falsehood , when there is scarce any thing of truth in it . But this is a common practise which such Hereticks , of whom Hillarie Ingerunt nobis primum nomina veritatis , ut virus falfitatis introeat , they first set forth unto us the names of truth , that the poyson of falsehood may enter now with them . Hill. de Trin. lib. 6. and St. Aug who was well acquainted with these cunning practises , saith , that the promise of truth which they are continually making , is nothing but a vaile to cover their errours , or a goodly fore-gate for errours to enter in , stealing into the minde of the unskilful Aug cont. ep. fundantur cap. 11. wherefore St. Paul gives the Church of God an Item to beware of them , Rom. 16. verse 17 , 18. now I beseech you brethren mark them , which cause divisions , and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them ; for they that are such serve not the Lord Jesus Christ , but their own belly ; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple . I did think him not worthy the answering ( as indeed he is not ) but because I hear he hath done much mischief to the Church of Christ , and drawn many proselytes after him , I thought it not amiss to borrow so much time from my imployment in the publick ministerie , as to return an answer , hoping that it might reclaim some of those that are gone astray , or else at least settle those who have not departed away , or confirm those as have defended the truth against this uncircumcised Philistin , of which number Sir , I understand you have been one , who with Mr. Maior of Rochester , some worthy ministers , gentlemen , Captains , and Commanders have laboured to stop the flood of errours , which this Serpent hath cast out of his mouth . Sir I desire you all not to be weary of well doing , your praise will remain in the Church of Christ , besides , in due time ye shall reap if ye faint not . But Sir I conceive the best way to deal with this clamorous Heretick is not by extemporal speaking , but by writing , let the arguments , answers , and replies be set down and setled on both sides , and then the Church of Christ will easily judge that his doctrine is not from above , but from below : not from the father of lights , but from the father of lies , and forger of delusions . Sir , I shall adde no more at present , then that I desire the God of truth to establish you in the truth , and to encrease your happiness not only here on earth , but in the highest Heavens , which is the prayer of your obliged friend , and servant . EDWARD GARLAND . On J. L. and his Verses prefixt to Richard Coppins Heretical Book entituled ( a Blow at the Serpent ) truly , a Blow at the brazen Serpent . Scribimus indocti , doctique . LIke as a Black-brow'd Whifler to the Play A masked Poetaster leads the way . J. L. or Iohn of Leydens ghostly front His Vizard is ; it frights me to look on 't , And that dull Ray , shot from the Fiery lake , Coppins new light , we for his Link may take . Being thus prepared , up he rashly climes Parnassus foot , and belcheth forth his Rimes . But with such fortunate success , be 't known , The Ballet-makers vote him , all , their own . And joy their Tribes increase : when loe the Prise , He 's but some old one in a new disguise . Mean while the Nine , and all Apollos Court , Have sentenced the bold Intruder for 't . ( And that , because he never slumbred on Parnassus , or the Banks of Helicon : Nor hath been dip't in the Font-Caballine ; Though in some , perhaps right Asinine ) And all admire , that he should have the face To commence Poet with so little Grace . When neither Art , nor nature seem to be Concurrent in him unto Poetry . What Stuffe hath he dropt from his Gooses quill To praise a Subject suitable , as ill ? Had learn'd Erasmus been as void of wit , And Art , when he the * Praise of Folly writ , He would have wanted one to praise him too , As both this Poet , and his Author do . For what appears of Wit , or rather shame , Is only the concealing of his Name . Whereby we doubt , what Soul this Mevius yields , Although , we know not the Arcadian fields . But as the Mountain breeds , and teem's to light The sillie Mouse , that nibbles out of sight : Some Pelion hath this Pigmy Poet born , To Cant for Baal , and Gods Church to scorn : To lurk in dark concealment , and revile His Ministers in a mad Chem'rim's Stile . What doth his Caution fancy'd from the course Of Stars , but shew he 's Lunatick or worse ? And , could he make an Almanack , his Strein Would much out-rail old Chem ' rim Lilly's vein . The Priests should surely have more wounds then any , Nay then , the Bloody naked man by many . But since , 't is plain , he and his Author look Up to the Host of Heaven , ( witness their Book . ) We can't but judge ( were there no other Mark ) That he 's a Chemerim , and this his Clerk . Then let him ( cease the Bells , and ) call no more His Rimes , the Songs of Sion , as before . Who sings a libertie , that best will move The loose , and Sensual , Family of Love . Nay Lucifer himself , with his black Nation , Must needs be taken with his great Salvation . And , were 't noe impious Paradox , would cease To compass Earth his Proselytes t' increase . No * Seers of Vanity should ever we , Or Diabolical * transformings , see . The Spirit of Errour would advance no more Muncers , or Iohn of Leydens , on his score . Truth would triumph without Antagonists At lest , would ignorance not come i' th Lists . But , hence these filthy Dreams , which , to rehers ; Though with rebuke , will but defile a Verse . The Golden Age is past ; and all things tend To a rude Chaos , to a sinful end ; Or else a new dark Century ( what e're New lights pretend ) the Church may justly fear . Do we not sad approaches now behold ? When Ignorance , and Blasphemies so bold : When Gods own Oracles , and Appellations Prophaned are by such adulterations : When us'd to cloth the carnal sence , and Pleas , Of filthy Dreamers , railing Rabshakeys : All dignities , and Rights divine , o're born By Hells dark Conclave , and the Chayre of Scorn . When as the names of Minister , and Priest Are us●d , but as terms of Obloquy and Test . And they despised ; though , as Lights divine And Stars of greatest magnitude they shine . When all sound Doctrins , clearest Verities Religion , and all sacred Mysteries Obnubilated are by grossest Lies . When few do lay 't to heart and fewer give Their due assistance , that the Truth may live . But stay my Muse and break off thy Complaints And leave the rest to Closet-breathing Saints . Difficile est Satyram non Scribere . HENRY HUGFORD . First , for the Title of your Book . YOu call it [ a Blow at the Serpent ] when it may be more fitly termed a Blow of the Serpent ; for none but the Serpent , or the seéd of the Serpent would cast such a flood of black water to destroy the Woman and her seed . Next , you say your Book is written to appease wrath . When it is written to stir up wrath , not only the wrath of Men , who cannot but be moved , and grieved to hear your Blasphemies , and Heresies vented first in the Pulpit , and now printed ; but the wrath of God against the land where such Hereticks are suffered . Reve. 2. 14 , 15. But I have a few things against thee , because thou hast there them that hold the Doctrine of Balaam , who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel . &c. So hast thou also them that hold the Doctrin of the Nicolaitans , which thing I hate . And in the 20th . verse of the same Chapter . — Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee , because thou sufferest that Woman Jesebel , which calleth her self a Prophetess , to teach and seduce my servants to commit fornication , &c. Lastly , you would make the world believe by prefixing that verse of the spirit , Rev. 2. 10. [ you suffer for the Testimony of Iesus . ] When it is for dishonouring the name of Jesus , as will appeare by the ensuing discourse . Wherefore you have just cause to fear the things that you suffer , for it is not [ the Divel ( that ) hath delivered you into Prison ] except it be because he hath set you to work ) but the Magistrate , who is appointed , not only for the praise of them that do well , but also for the punishment of them that do evil . Repent therefore and be converted , lest you go from one Prison to a worse , even to the Prison of the Damned , out of which there is no Redemption . THE ANSWER TO HIS EPISTLE . Dated from the Prison at Maidstone . YOu begin with a Noverint Vniversi [ be it known unto all that know me . ] But without all peradventure it is a counterfeit Deed , and the Conditions are forged : God never made them , nor doth he allow of them , neither hath he set his hand and seal to such accursed Heresies . As to maintain that [ the divine Nature was united to the sinful Nature of Man ] and so make the second Person in the Trinity a Sinner , and thereby ( as much as in you lies ) rase the very foundation of Religion ; for if he had been so , he could not have been a Sacrifice to take away sin ; but would have needed himself to be purged , wherefore before the second person in the Trinity was united unto the nature of the Virgin , the holy Ghost did separate that substance whereof the humane nature of Christ was framed from the least stain of sin . Secondly , to say that all the Scriptures are an Allegory : and so overthrow the whole History of the Bible , the Creation , Redemption , and Salvation of Man . An Allegory is , when one thing is spoken , and another understood , but in the History of the Bible the very same thing which is ( spoken , is to be understood , except it be when it is contrary to the Analogy of faith , or the Rule of Manners . What ? because St. Paul made an Allegory of Abrahams having Sarah & Hagar doth it follow that all the Scriptures are Allegories ? Or because that was an Allegorie , may we believe there was no such Historie ? Because the Rock was called Christ , as in the 1. Cor. 10. 4. doth it therefore follow there was no such Historie as of the Rock in Numb. 20. the like may be said of many more . Allegories do not therefore overthrow the History , but confirm it . 'T is then God never consented to your Conditions , though you have presum'd to set to his name . You speak much in your own praise : [ that you have been faithful in the acknowledgement of this Mysterie . ] You might have remembred , that propria laus sordet , and that commonly , when a man beareth witness of himself , his witness is not true . John 8. Therefore you should rather have followed Solomons counsel . Prov. 27. 2. Let another man praise thee , and not thine own mouth . For the mystery you speak of , it is not the mysterie of Godliness , but the mysterie of iniquitie . You do in effect deny the Trinity . You say [ it is but one God manifesting himself under various appearances ] when the Deity is one in essence , and in that essence there are three distinct Persons , or subsistences , the Father , the Son , and the Holy Ghost , as appears in Christ's Baptism . The Father speaks from Heaven , the son stands in the water , the Holy Ghost descends in the likeness of a Dove . You boast [ you give to God and man their due , when you Rob both God and man of their due : Man of the Resurrection of his body , and Christ of his Session at the right hand of God , the greatest dignitie that Humanitie is capable of Ephe. 1. 20. You are only kind unto the Divel , and would put him in hope ( if it were possible ) of Salvation ; but though peradventure you may perswade your followers to believe it , yet the father of lies will not credit it ; if he did , he would not have cried out , torment me not before the time . You say that [ God hath been with you to make sweet and pleasant your sufferings , and Imprisonment to you . ] It is a fearful judgement , when God gives up men so far to believe their own lies , that their own Poyson becomes pleasant and delectable unto them ; and that he doth this , we find 2. Thes. 2. 10 , 11 , 12. Because they received not the love of the truth , that they might be saved : God shall send them strong delusion , that they should believe a lie : That they all might be damned , who believed not the truth , but had pleasure in unrighteousness . You boast of the sufferings , as for the truth ; when they are for your abominable Blasphemie , and bearing witness to lies , for denying Christ Assention , Session , and the general day of judgement in that sense which the Scriptures deliver them unto us , we know there are Pseudomartyrs as well as true Martyrs ; and as God comforts and supports the one , so the Divel deludes and deceives the other , for it is manifest to all sober Christians that read your Book , you suffer not as a Martyr , but as a Malefactor , for rotten and detestable Heresies . You complain , [ some have revil'd you , as a Blasphemer ] ( you should have said rebuk'd you . ) What they have done I know not , but I am sure it is their duty to warn their sheep to beware of the Wolf ( our Saviour himself hath done it . Beware of false Prophets that come unto you in Sheeps cloathing but inwardly they are ravening Wolves . Mat. 7. 15. ) and if they neglect to do it , and the Sheep perish , they shall answer for their blood . Eze. 3. 20. But if they do it , and the Sheep be slain , the Shepherds shall deliver their own Souls . Ez. 33. 9. And certainly a more dangerous Wolf or Heretick was not in the Church from the dayes of the Apostles , until this time : What do I speak of one ; if Pythagoras's transmigration of souls could captivate my belief , I should not judge unreasonably , should I judge that the souls almost of all the former Hereticks were transported into you ; for not any one of them maintained so many damnable opinions . God give you a sight of your sin , and grace to repent ; that if it be possible the sin of your heart may be forgiven you . As for your Book , it is a Labyrinth of errours , and you your self a blind guid , that run headlong into the pit of perdition , and draw others after you . For the Aspersions which you and your deceived followers cast upon us the Ministers , we regard them not : It is an honour to be evil spoken of by such companions , especially for the truth , and for righteousness-sake . But we shall leave our cause to God , and pray with the Psalmist ( Psal. 35. 1. ) plead thou our cause , O Lord with them that fight against us ( and Psal. 27. 12. ) Deliver us not over unto the will of our enemies , for false witnesses are risen up against us , and such as speak wrong . Before I enter upon this disputation , it will be requisite to say somewhat of Blasphemie ; because it is much spoken of in the ensuing discourse . To Blaspheme God , is to detract from his sacred majestie , to offer injurie to his holy name , and dishonourable , and reproachful speeches , the sin of Pharaoh . Exod. 5. 2. the sin of Rabshaketh 2. Kin. 18. the sin of the Israelitish womans son . Lev. 24. 10. The punishment of this sin was death ; when it was manifest and notorious . Lev. 24. 16. Dan. 3. 29. This sin is committed three wayes . First , when that is ascribed unto God , which is repugnant to his nature , as if any say he is corrupt , or subject unto evil affections . Secondly , when that is taken from him which is proper unto him , as when any shall say God is not merciful , good , just , &c. Thirdly , when that is attributed to the creature , which is proper to the Creator ; as when any shall say the Angels made the world ; or that a meer man can forgive sins . Or if any shall assume to himself , the name of the Messias ; as did the false Prophets , &c. moreover , I may adde that Heresie is Blasphemie , and that Hereticks are Blasphemers . First , because they manifestly oppose the truth , and so God , who is prima veritas , upon which account St. Paul condemns Hymineus and Alexander . 1. Tim. 1. 20. Secondly , because they make God the Author of their lies ; by wresting his word to confirm their errours ; which is the property of Satan , the patron of lies . Thirdly , because they set Gods stamp upon their counterfeit mettal ; telling the people it is Gods gold , when it is no other then Satans dross , of most of which this Heretick is guiltie ; as will appear by the ensuing discourse : these things premised I proceed . [ Christ , ( who knew no sin ) ( you say ) took part of mans flesh , and blood , which was sinful ] Again , you say [ Christ took upon him the sinful nature of all that sinned . By Christ it seems you mean the Deity : And by sinful nature you mean his Humanitie ; for what else can be your sense . Which Proposition is both false and Blasphemous ; for the Holy Ghost , in the conception sanctifi'd the Masse , whereof Christ was made , and separated it from sin . Luke 1. 35. The Angel ( said the Holy Ghost ) shall come upon thee , and the power of the most High shall over-shadow thee ; therefore also that holy thing , which shall be born of thee , shall be called the Son of God . The holy thing , which shall be born of thee , implies he was holy before he was born . And this was done upon special cause . First , that it might be joyned to the Person of the Son , which could not have been , if it had been defiled with sin . Secondly , Christ was a Saviour as he was both God and man : If he had been sinful himself , he could not have saved others ; but should have stood in need of a Saviour himself ; therefore the humane nature of Christ was not polluted with Original sin , but was sanctified . And this sanctification hath two parts . First , the stoppage to the propagation of Original Corruption , and the guilt of Adams Sin ; which was on this manner : God in the beginning set down this order concerning man , that what evil or defect he brought upon himself , he should derive the same to every one of his Posteritie begotten of him , and accordingly when any father begets his Child he is in the place of Adam , and conveys into it , beside the nature of man , the very guilt and corruption of nature ; now , for preventing this evil in Christ , God provided in great wisdome , that he should be conceived by the Holy Ghost , without any generation by man , and by this means he took the substance of the Virgin Mary , and not the guilt and corruption of the substance . Secondly , as your proposition is false , so it is blasphemous ; for you charge Christ with Original sin ; for as the soul and body make but one man : So the divine and humane nature make but one Christ , not the divine nature alone , as you erroneously suppose . You say [ the Son proceedeth forth from the father . ] Which is a gross errour ; for the Son is begotten of the father , the three Persons being distinguished by these three properties : Paternitie , filiation , and procession : The Father begets : The Son is begotten : The Holy Ghost proceeds , and these must not be confounded . Whereas you urge the 16. of John verse the 28. you mistake the words . The Text is . I came forth from the Father , and am come into World . You say [ that all men shall be saved , and that there is redemption out of Hell ( even for the Divels ] for you except them not ; which false Assertion is so strongly confuted out of those two places of Scripture . Mark 16. 16. And Mat. 25. 31. urged by Mr. Roswel , that you are not able to answer it . You farther say [ I do also say that the righteous shall have everlasting life , and the wicked shall have everlasting Torment ; but that doth not prove , there is no Salvation , or Redemption out of Hell ; for the word everlasting , doth signifie such a dispensation or administration of God to man . Which is an absurd expression ; let me help you to a better , though it will not help you in the maintaining of your errour . Everlasting doth signifie Perpetuitatem periodicam , et Perpetuitatem absolutam , and you might say , it signifies here Perpetuitatem periodicam ; but this would be as false , as the other is absurd : For in the same sense that God promises eternal life to the Sheep , in the same sense he threatens eternal punishment to the damned , but he promises eternal life absolutely to the Sheep , and therefore threatens eternal punishment absolutely to the damned . The Text is , et abibunt isti ad sispplictum aeternum , justi vero ad vitam aeternam , so there is the same perpetuitie to both , and the Scales go equally . I will adde two places of Scripture more , the 1. Mark 9. 45 , 46. and if thy foot offend thee cut it off : It is better for thee to enter halt into life , then having two feet , to be cast into Hell , into the fire that never shall be quenched : Where their Worm dieth not , and the fire is not quenched . Mark the words , he call's it their Worm , and this their Worm never dies , and wherefore their Worm ? Because it torments them : And to shew the certainty of it , our Saviour repeats it three several times in that Chapter . The second is Luke 16. 26. where Abraham tells Dives , between us and you , there is a great Gulf fixed , so that they , which would pass from hence to you cannot , neither can they pass to us , that would come from thence , a Casmos , a fixed Casmos never to be removed , and which shall for ever keep them asunder , which some expound to be Gods eternal decree . Now where is your boasting , where is your triumphing ; if you have any Scripture that makes for your purpose , produce it : We have produced Scripture sufficiently , and such proofs as neither you nor any of your family can ever answer ; yet more shall be produced upon the same occasion in the second disputation . You urge to prove your wicked errour Christs local descension into Hell , what if I should grant it , because it is the opinion of many learned Protestant Divines , what would this make for your purpose ? They held , he went ad Triumphandum to triumph , ( grounding their opinion principally on Phil. 2. 10. ) you ad patiendum to suffer , which is against Christ's Consummatumest it is finished . Because Christ descended and returned as a Conquerour , doth it follow , that the Divels and the damned shall return , who are Malefactors . Also Christ laid down his life for his Sheep , are the Divels and the damned any of the Sheep of Christ ? You quote a place out of Amos 9. 2. Though they dig into Hell , thence shall mine hand take them , though they climb up to Heaven , thence will I bring them down , though they hide themselves in the top of Carmel , I will search and take them out thence , &c. Which place is nothing to your purpose ; for the meaning is , no place should hide them from the revenging hand of God , except they repented . But one thing more you speak there of a dispensation . What manner of dispensations to go to Hell ? There needs no such dispensation . Facilis descensus averni , broad is the way , certainly you mean a dispensation to come from Hell ; and then the Pope or your self must grant it ; but he grants dispensations only from Purgatory , and so it resteth upon your self : and if you have such a facultie , why do you suffer them to lie in those flames ? It argues little charitie in you . You are charged by Mr. Reswel for saying , that a mans good works do him no good , and his evil works no hurt ; and in your answer I finde this of truth . [ That when we have done all we can , we must acknowledge our selves to be unprofitable servants , ] and indeed so we are ; yet he that commanded us to acknowledge that we are unprofitable servants : in the same place commands us to do what we can . To strive to enter in at the strait Gate : To give diligence to make our calling and election sure , for the pennie is not given to those that stand idle in the Market-place , but unto those that labour in the Vineyard . Further , though good works be not causa regnandi , yet are they via ad Regnum , and therefore God hath prepared them to walk in Ephe. 2. 10. In the third Chapter I finde so great Blasphemie , Non-sense , and confusion , that I should hold my self disoblig'd to an answer , or confutation ; but that , where I am commanded not to answer a fool in his folly , lest I should be like him : There am I commanded also , to answer a fool in his folly , lest he be wise in his own conceit : Pro. 26. 4 , 5. First Blasphemie , you say [ Christ is at the left hand of God . ] Which is horrible Blasphemie : For as the right hand doth signifie Summam Gloriam the highest glory : So the left hand of God doth signifie summam miseriam , the greatest misery , which to maintain that Christ is in , is most repugnant to the Scriptures . Ephes. 1. 20 , 21. Col. 3. 1. Psal. 16. 11. Rom. 8. 34. Mat. 16. 9. It is a metaphorical expression , borrowed from the gesture of Princes , who when they mean highly to honour any man , set him at their right hand according to that of the Psalmist , Psal. 45. 9. Upon thy right hand did stand the Queen in gold of Ophir . And we read that Solomon did set his Mother at his right hand . 1 Kings 2. 19. Augustin interprets sitting at the right hand , after this manner : Sedere est judiciariam potestatem habere , ad dexteram Dei esse , est in summa beatitudine esse , sicut ad sinistram in summâ Miseriâ . To sit is to have Judiciarie power , to be at the right hand of God , is to be in the highest degree of happiness , as at his left hand , in the greatest miserie . But who can better expound it , then St. Paul , who was led by the Spirit of Christ , Ephe. 1. 20 , 21 , 22. God hath highly exalted his Son , and placed him at his right hand in Heavenly places , where he shews the exaltation of his Humane nature to the highest degree of blessedness that it can be capable of : He hath put all things in subjection under his feet , and that propter Mortem Crucis , because he became obedient to death , even the death of the Cross . Phil. 2. 8 , 9. Your Allegorical fancy is as far different from the truth , as a Goat is from a Sheep , or an Asse from a rational man . Secondly , Non-sense in the contents of your third Chapter , as all that read it cannot judge it otherwise . Thirdly , Confusion , in turning the Holy Scriptures into Allegories , where they are to be understood literally , and so overthrow the meaning of the Holy Ghost . Disput. 2. You begin with truth as Pilate , and yet you go about to crucifie it , you assume unto your self the name of a light , as the Pharisees did , and yet our Saviour calls them blind guides that went into the ditch themselves , and drew others after them . You tell Mr. French you are not of his Spirit , and I believe so too , for he defends the truth , and you maintain falsehood . Neither are you of the spirit of Christ , for he hates the doctrine of the Nicholaitans Rev. 2. 15. you hate no mans opinion , as you declare page 15. a difference then , for there is the spirit of Christ , and your spirit , they are not the same . Here I meet again with two Heresies disputed of , and confuted before , and therefore I shall not need to adde much . The first is , that the deity of Christ was not only united to the nature of man , but to the sin of his nature , which is as impossible , as for two contraries to agree together in the same subject , puritie , and uncleanness . Righteousness , and unrighteousness : Light and darkness . He was a perfect man in all things , sin excepted . Heb. 4. 15. We have not an high Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities ; but was in all points tempted like as we were yet without sin . And Heb. 7. 26 , 27. for such an high Priest became us to have who is holy , harmless , undefiled , separate from sinners , and made higher then the Heavens . Who needed not daily as those high Priests to offer up sacrifice , first for his own sin , and then for the peoples . And what can be more plaine , that he was without sin clearly , as the other high Priests were not without , they having need , he having none . Again , he took upon him the nature of man ; but not the sin of his nature . Sin and concupiscence are not of the nature of man ; but an hereditary disease that sticks unto his nature as doth the Leprosie : For indeed if it had stuck to his nature , he could neither have been a Priest , nor a sacrifice . Not an high Priest , for such an high Priest it becommed us to have who was holy , as in that Text of Heb. 7. 26. Not a sacrifice ; for that must be without spot , that must take away sin : And so was Christ . John 14. 30. The Prince of this world had nothing in him . 1. Pet. 1. 19. A lamb without blemish and without spot . 1. Pet. 2. 22. Who did not sin . And whereas you object he bore our sins in his body on the Tree : you could not have brought any place , that makes more against you . Mark the words . He bore our sins , not his own : We were the principals . He was but our suertie : He suffered not for himself ; but according to that of Daniel 9. 26. The Messias shall be slain for his people . You urge moreover that place . He hath made him to be sin , that knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of God in him , which makes nothing for your purpose , rightly understood : For he made him sin by imputation : God imputed his righteousness to us , and our sin to him : I have shewed you before how he was conceived by the Holy Ghost , not begotten by man . Here we are come again to that old exploded Heresie of Origen , which hath been answered already , and that enough to the satisfaction of any good Christian ; yet because I meet with it again , I shall adde somewhat more . God doth threaten eternal punishments , as he promises eternal blessings , as in that Text of Mat. 25. 46. before spoken of . Which Text runs thus in the Original {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} . Here the word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} , which signifies eternal , you see , is the Epithite for the future condition both of the righteous and unrighteous , and though the English translation render it by two several words , as eternal and everlasting , yet their force and meaning is the same , and signifie the same . And here me thinks , this one passage might discover to the weakest , and most ignorant follower of your er●ours , what a perverter of Scripture you are . But for all this , you have the face to tell Mr. French , that this Text proves it not , and tell him that you had answer'd it before , but let us see how you have answer'd it before . Your answer was , [ that the word everlasting did signifie a dispensation , or administration of God to man , ] which as I told you before , is an absurd expression ; your meaning is ( as you have somewhat exprest your self in the beginning of the eighteenth Page ) that it signifies such a perpetuitie , as is not absolute , but hath a Period . Captain Smith very seasonably charg'd you to prove it hath such a signification . You instance in the Covenant God made with Abraham , which was called an Everlasting Covenant . Your words are . The Covenant which God made with Abraham , was called an everlasting Covenant [ and this Covenant upon these conditions did last but for a time , for we read that God did afterwards make a new Covenant with us , that should never be ended . ] To this Mr. French replied , I deny that the Scripture you brought out of the 17. of Genesis is taken in your sense . For that was an everlasting Covenant : And indeed so it was ; therefore the pains of Hell are eternall , that is , have no Period . To this you say . [ Sir you say nothing but what your brother Roswel had said before , which I then answer'd , and you understand not ; for the first everlasting Covenant , as to the conditions thereof , which were the works of the Law , had an end , as to us , when God made a new covenant with us upon better conditions without end . ] Oh Monstrum horrendum cui lumen ademptum . Oh blind deceived deceiver to say , that the covenant God made with Abraham was a covenant of works , when it was a covenant of grace , as the Scriptures every where prove ; but especially . Rom. 4. and in that Chapter especially the 16 Verse Therefore it is of faith , that it might be by grace , to the end the Promise might be sure to all the seed of Abraham , who against hope , believed in hope , and therefore faith was imputed to him for righteousness . And again , in the ● . to the Gala. Abraham believed , and it was imputed to him for righteousness . I see you do not understand what the Covenants are . I shall briefly tell you therefore . Gods Covenant is his contract with man , concerning the obtaining of Eternal life upon a certain condition . This Covenant consists of two parts ; Gods promise to man , and mans promise to God . The promise of God is that whereby he bindeth himself to man , if he perform the Condition . Mans promise to God is , that whereby he voweth his Allegiance unto his Lord , and to perform the condition between them . Again , there are two kinds of this Covenant . First , the covenant of works , and the covenant of grace . Jerem. 31. 31 , 32. The Covenant of works , is Gods covenant made with condition of perfect obedience , and is expressed in the Moral Law . The Moral Law is that part of Gods Word which commandeth a perfect obedience from man , as well in his nature as in his actions , and forbiddeth the contrary Rom. 10. 5. and 1. Tim. 1. 5. The Covenant of grace is that part , whereby God freely promising Christ and his benefits , exacts again of man , that he would by faith receive Christ , and repent of his sins . Hos. 2. 18 , 19. Eze. 36. 25 , Mala. 3. 1. And this covenant though it be one in substance , yet it is distinguished into the old and new Testament , or covenant . The old Testament , or covenant is that which in Types and Shadows prefigures Christ to come , and to be exhibited . The new Testament or Covenant declareth Christ already come in the flesh , as it is apparently shewed in the Gospel . The Gospel is that part of Gods Word which contains a most worthy and welcome message ; namely , that mankinde is fully redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God , manifested in the flesh : So that now , for all those that repent , and believe in Jesus Christ , there is prepared a full remission of sins together with Salvation and life everlasting . Iohn 3. 14 , 15. Acts 10. 43. Thus have I shewed you what the Covenant is , and the difference which , it seems plainly , you your self did not understand , though you taxed another for ignorance . But now the Divels and damned are out of this Covenant : they are under the curse , they cannot repent , they cannot truly believe , they are hardned , and therefore no hope of Salvation to them . In the next place of your errours , and abominable absurd shifts to maintain them , you have found out a prettie distinction of everlasting . You say [ when everlasting , and the words for ever are mentioned singly , they signifie a time which shall have an end ; but when they are ingeminated , or repeated , as from Everlasting to Everlasting , or for ever and ever , then they signifie Eternitie , or a time without end ] or to this purpose page 18. Your own words shall confute your errour , your tongue shall make you fall ; for if you read Apoc. 14. Verse 11. you shall finde that they that worship the beast are tormented with fire and brimstone . And the smoak of their torments ascend for ever and ever , habemus confitentem , that the pains of Hell are perpetual , because they are said to endure for ever and ever . Your next answer contains such horrible Blasphemie , that it deserves rather a reply from the hand of the Hangman , then an answer from the Pen of any man . You say , ( and I tremble to repeat it ) [ that Hell fire , ( not only ) is as eternal as God ( but that ) God himself is that consuming fire ] viz. of Hell . A most damnable assertion , which is all one , as to say , that Summum bonum is Summum malum , that he who is the chiefest good and happiness , it self is the chiefest evil . And Hell fire it self , which was made for the Divels and the damned . Mat. 25. 41. For what can it be else : let the exposition be what it will , the Playster will be too narrow for the Sore . God is sometimes compared , in the Scripture , unto a consuming fire , to shew the greatness of his anger against sinners , and that except they repent he will burn them up , and consume them , as a fire consumes the Wood , the Chaffe , the Stubble ; but I never heard before , that God was said to be Hell fire , and I hope shall never hear it again . You said absurdly [ that David was in Hell , even while he was upon the earth , ] understanding Hell locally ( as I understand , for why else should you urge it here ) which cannot be . A body cannot be in two places at the same time . Secondly , you quote the 88. Psalm 6 , 7. 't is common in the Scriptures , for the Spirit of God to use Hyperboles , that is , transcendent kinds of speaking , as it is said , that there were among the Canaanites Cities walled up to Heaven , that is , the Walls were very high . So when the greatness of the miseries , afflictions , and troubles of Gods Children is set forth , it is compared unto Hell . Ion. 2. 1 , 2. Then Ionas yrayed unto the Lord his God out of the fishes belly ; and said , I cried by reason of my affliction unto the Lord , and he heard me ; out of the belly of Hell cried I , and thou heardest me . You mention that place in the 1. Cor. 3. 10 , 11. nothing to the purpose ; for that fire there mentioned , is to trie Doctrines that are built upon Iesus Christ the foundation , the true corner stone , whether they be Gold or Silver ; Hay , or Stubble ; if they be of the first sort , they shall abide , if of the second they shall burn and vanish . Now this fire is not the fire of Hell , nor of Purgatory , ( as the Papists hold ) but the fire of Gods Word , or the spirit working by the Word ; which by the light thereof , that is as clear as the day , when once it ariseth in our hearts , doth manifest and declare what is Silver , what is dross . If any mans work abide he shall receive a reward . Dan. 12. 3. They that be wise , shall shine as the brightness of the Firmanent , and they that turn many to righteousness as the Stars for ever and ever . But if his Work burn he shall suffer loss . Mat. 5. 19. He shall be accounted least in the Kingdome of Heaven ; yet if he have kept the foundation he shall be saved , yet as by fire . He doth not say by fire , but ( as ) by fire , that is , by afflictions , which are compared to fire , 1. Pet. 4. 12 , 13. for by them God shall correct him , and cause him to see his errour . Before I was afflicted , I went wrong , saith David Psal. 119. 67. And in Iob 33. 14 , 15. God speaketh once , yea twice , yet man perceiveth it not . He openeth his eyes by correction , that he may keep back his soul from the Pit. And this I conceive is the meaning of the spirit of God in these expressions . Thirdly , you nrge that place of Hos. 13. 14. I will ransome them from the power of the Grave , &c. To which I answer . First , there is a civil death , when men are so overwhelmed with miseries , that they seem to be dead and buried whilest they are alive . The Prophet fore-tells , that they should be brought into such a condition for their sins ; and yet God should deliver them out of it , when they repented , which came to pass ; for they were delivered into the hands of Nebuchadnezzar , and after delivered by the Edict of Cyrus . But who can better expound the Prophet , then the Apostle , 1 Cor. 15. 54. who expounds it of the Resurrection . So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption , and this Mortalitie shall have put on immortalitie ; then shall the saying be brought to pass that is written , death is swallowed up in victory . And that very fitly , for when we die , death gets the victory over us : when we rise again life gets then victory of death . You bring a place out of the 27. of Isaiah v. 1. which if you will apply unto the Devil and his Angels is enough to break their hearts , could they conceive any hope of your redemption . In that day the Lord with his sore , and great , and strong sword shall punish Leviathan , that crooked Serpent : and he shall slay the Dragon in the Sea . In that day when God shall do this , shall be sung this song , the Church is a Vineyard of red Wine , I the Lord do keep it , I will water it every moment lest any hurt it , I will keep it night and day . Fury is not in me : ( that is , though he correct it in his anger ; yet his fury shall not rest upon it ) though bryers and thorns should be set against him , he would go through them , and burn them up together . By briers and thorns he means the Enemies of his Church , whom he will destroy for ever in the day of Judgment . But some interpret this place of the destruction of the Babylonians by the Persians , and their deliverance by Cyrus , which afterwards came to passe , and then the Church had cause to sing that song . Your last Argument overthrows your own cause Isa. 30. 33. Tophet is prepared of old , for the King it is prepared , it consists of fire and much wood , the breath of the Lord , like a stream of brimstone doth kindle it . Tophet was a Temple in the valley of Hinnon , wherein stood the abominable Idol of Saturn , to whom the Israelites offered up their children : and that they might not hear their mournful cries , they sounded bells to drown their voices ; from whence it came to be called Tophet , of Toph , which signifies a bell . By this vallie of slaughter , the Prophets do many times set forth Hell , and the torments thereof . Again , the Assyrians , or the Babylonians were always cruel enemies to the Church of God , they often invaded their Country , burnt up their Cities , slew their people , and carried them away captive : wherefore Satan and his Angels , with his instruments are many times compared to the King of Babel , his Souldiers , and his people . Now in this place the Prophet goes about to set forth the day of judgement , when not onely the Babylonians , but all the enemies of the Church shall be destroyed , Satan and his Angels , Tyrants , Persecuters , Hereticks &c. and he begins it in this manner . The Lord shall cause his glorious voice to be heard , and shall shew the lighting down of his Arm with the indignation of his anger , and with the flame of devouring fire , with scattering , and tempest , and hailstones . For through the voice of the Lord shall the Assyrian be beaten down ( which smote with the rod ) with the rod of his mouth , when he shall pronounce the last sentence against them . But what shall become of them ? they shall be cast into Hell , and all the people that forget God ; which hell is here called Tophet : when was this made ? of old . But it cannot hold them all ? Yes , 't is deep and large . There wants fewel ? no , there is fire and much wood . Though it be kindled , yet it may go out ? no , it is like a burning River of Brimstone , the breath of the Lord continually kindling it , and wherefore is all this ? to burn the Assyrian and his Babylonians . This exposition is plain enough , yet to do it more fully . Transitus Virgae fundatus quem requiescere faciet Dominus super eum . He shall make the rod of his anger to rest upon him . That is , upon Satan and his Angels , and the wicked , that shall be tormented in those flames : they which worshipped the Beast and his image , and receive his mark in their forehead , or hand , the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God which is poured out , without mixture , into the cup of his indignation , and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the Lamb , and the smoke of their Torments ascendeth up for ever and ever , and they have no rest day nor night , Apo. 14. 11. what can be more strong against you to prove the eternity of the punishment of the damned . You conclude [ these are all the fruits of hell to take away their sins ] and great fruits they are , if true , to Purge the Devils and the damned : it far exceeds the fire of Purgatory , for that onely purgeth some , ( as the Papists vainly teach ) of their venial sins , and the temporal punishment of their mortal ; but this purgeth all , Cain , Esau , Judas , Julian , the Devil and damned ; but let me tell you , you were not best to trust to it , but make your peace with God ( if it may be ) before you come there : for if you come to be shut up in that Dungeon , or , as in the 20. Revel. 10. when you shall be cast into the Lake of fire and brimstone , where the beast and the false Prophet are , and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever , ( eternity in your own sense ) there will be no hope of deliverence . When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with his mighty angels , in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God , and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ , who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord . 2. Thes. 1. 7 , 8 , 9. What can be more plain to all , except to such as have their understanding darkned by the ignorance that is in them , and their minds alienated from the life of God , because of the blindnesse of their hearts : and because they will not receive the love of the truth that they may be saved ; but provoke God to send them strong delusion , that they should beleeve a lye and be damned . But you wickedly and vainly boast , that you fight against the enemies of the truth , when it appears plainly that you fight against the friends of the truth , nay , against the truth it self , and that you are not a brother of Christ , ( as you in the pride of your heart call your self ) but a brother of Anti-Christ , whom Christ will destroy with the breath of his mouth . I am come to examine the 5. Chap. which is of Christs ascension and his coming to Judgement , which you blasphemously and impudently stand to deny . Your words are [ Therefore the Words of Christ are not to be understood carnally , but spiritually . ] And again , you say concerning his comming to judgement , I do believe he is come , and comming daily , and doth set up his Throne in the hearts of his people , &c. And thus by your foolish figures , and spiritual ( as you pretend ) senceless sences , you pervert the Scriptures meaning , and ( to your power ) overthrow two Articles of our faith , both necessarie to Salvation . First therefore , I will shew the veritie of Christs Ascension , and that it is to be understood literally , and not figuratively , and then confute your cavils . First , for the truth of his Ascension we have the Testimonies of the Evangelists — Mark 16. 19. So then , after the Lord had spoken to them , he was received up into Heaven , and sat on the right hand of God . — Luke 24. 51. And it came to pass while he blessed them , he was parted from them , and carried up into Heaven . — The Testimony of Angels Acts 1. 9. St. Luke sets downs the circumstances , and the manner of his Ascension . The time 40. dayes after his Resurrection , Acts 1. 3. The place from whence , Mount Olivet near Bethany . Luke 24. 50. Acts 1. 12. The manner , first , He led them out as far as to Bethany , and blessed them , Luke 24. 50. — He went apart from them . Verse 51. Thirdly , a cloud did over-shadow him . Acts 1. 9. The Testimony of the whole Church of God , who make it an Article of their faith . And this was not another body , but the same body which he had before , as the Angels testifie . Acts 1. 19. This same Jesus , whom you have seen go into Heaven , &c. this same Jesus , not another , not a Phantastical body , but his true body . Iohn 20. 27. Then said he to Thomas , reach hither thy finger , and behold my hands , and reach hither thy hand , and thrust it into my side , and be not faithless , but believing . — Revelation 1. 7. — They shall see him whom they have pierced . Here you see is a whole cloud of witnesses , the Testimony of the Apostles , of Angels , and the spirit of God . How is your forehead steel'd , that you dare out-face a truth as apparent as the Sun at Noon-day ? But you except against the Testimony of the Apostles , and say [ they had not received the holy Ghost , but were carnal ] before you Blasphemed Christ , now the Apostles ; for there is a Blasphemie against man , also . Naboth was falsely charged to have blasphemed God , and the King . Did not our Saviour breath upon them , saying unto them , receive the Holy Ghost . Iohn 20. 22. though they had not recived him in that manner , and measure . as they did upon the day of Pentecost ; yet it doth not follow , they had not received him before . You say moreover [ that they were carnal . ] If you mean , totally carnal ; 't is as false , as the other , for our Saviour gives this Testimony of them , that they had followed him in the Kingdome of Regeneration , and should sit upon 12. Thrones , &c. when he should sit upon his Throne of glory . Luke 22. 29 , 30. what can be more plain , to prove that they had the Holy Ghost , and were regenerated . You told us , you were a light , you are rather a dark Lanthorn , or such a light as those Doctors were , which St. Paul speaks of 1. Tim. 1. 7. they took upon them to teach the Law , not knowing what they taught , nor whereof they affirm'd . Again , you object out of Luke 1. 35. and Ephes. 4. 5 , 9 , 10. [ He that ascended , is the same that descended , and we do not read of a body of flesh and bones that descended . ] But Sir we read that the second Person in the Trinity descended so low , as to take upon him our nature . Gal. 4. 4. God sent forth his Son made of a Woman , and Heb. 2. 14 , 16. for asmuch as the Children are partakers of flesh and blood . He also himself likewise took part of the same , ( so ) he took not on him the nature of Angels , but he took on him the seed of Abraham . Et quod semel assumsit nunquam amisit . And he remains a Priest for ever . Heb. 5. 6. Then when he had perfected the work of our Redemption , he ascended up into Heaven , sat down at the right hand of God to make intercession for us . — Now who doth this ? He that died , or rather he that is risen from the dead , and who was that ? Christ . ( Christ is risen , ) and what is Christ ? God and Man in one Person , read Rom. 8. 34. Instance . The second Person descended , as he was God , ascended God and Man ; therefore he that ascended was not the same that descended . You erre not knowing the Scriptures . For though the second Person descended and took our nature upon him ; yet it was without the confusion of natures , or transfusion of essential properties : though he was made , that he was not God and Man in one Person ; yet he remained that he was before perfect God . And therefore he that ascended was the same that descended . The Apostle cryes out . Great is the mysterie of godliness , God was manifested in the flesh , justified in the Spirit , seen of Angels , preached unto the Gentiles , believed on in the World , and received up into glory . Next follows the Blasphemous Inference [ if Christ be at Gods right hand in a body of flesh and bones , why , then this is to make God to be a body of flesh and bones also , and such a one as your self , confin'd to a local place . ] Which doth not follow ; for the Godhead was united unto the Humane Nature without any confusion of natures , or transfusion of essential properties . The Word was made flesh not by turning the Word into flesh , but by taking the Humanitie into the Deitie . Which the Antients thus exprest . Sum quod eram , neceram , quod sum , nunc dicar utrumque . And therefore , for a man to say , in concreto that Christ hath a body of flesh and bones , is true ; but to say that God hath a body of flesh and bones in abstracto , — or that God is confined to a place , is horrible Blasphemy ; for which you were seasonably taken off by Captain Harrison . The next thing to be considered , is the comming of Christ to judgement , which Pillar of our faith you endeavour to pull down by turning all into an Allegorie , and so overthrow the true sense of the Scriptures . You say [ but I do believe he is come , and comming dayly ] and likewise you say in the foregoing Page [ all this I know , and see to be now , he is upon his Throne , and hath all nations before him , and ever had . ] First , I will prove the veritie of this Article , and then confute your errours . The veritie of Christs comming to judgement , is confirmed by these places of Scripture . Rev. 20. 10. I beheld a white Throne , and him that sat thereon ; from whose face Heaven and earth fled away ; I saw the dead both great and small stand before God , and the Books were opened . The signes of his comming . 1. The preaching of the Gospel , through the whole World . Mat. 24. 13. 2. The revealing of Antichrist . 2. Thes. 2. 3. 3. A general departing of men from the faith , 2. Thes. 2. 3 : 4. Corruption of manners . Men shall be lovers of themselves , Covetous , boasters , proud Blasphemers , &c. 2. Tim. 3. 2. 5. Great calamities , Mat. 24. 6. 6. Deadness of heart , Luke 21. 26. 7. The calling of the Jews , Rom. 11. 25 , 26. 8. The sign of the Son of Man , Mat. 24. 30. The manner of his comming , with power and great glory , Mat. 24. 30. with all his holy Angels . Mat. 25. 31. With the voice of the Arch-angel , and the Trumpet , 1. Thes. 4. 16. Mat. 25. 31. He shews what he shall do . He shall separate the Sheep from the Goats , &c. He shall say , come yee blessed , go ye cursed , &c. Then the consequent . The Sheep shall go into everlasting life , and the Goates into everlasting Torment . Besides , he commanded his Disciples to preach this doctrine , Acts 10. 40 , 41 , 42. Now what can be set down more plain , more punctually ; so that we may say boldly with the Apostles . Now speakest thou plainly , and speakest no Parable . Iohn 16. 29. Let not therefore the scoffing Athiest say . Where is the promise of his comming : for since the fathers fell asleep all things continue , as they were from the beginning of the creation . Nor let any Apostata ask in derision what his Throne is made of , or seek to know the particular time of his comming . For our God shall come , and will not keep silence , devouring fire shall go before his face , and a mighty tempest shall be stirred up round about him . Then shall be execute judgement apon all , and to convince all that are ungodly among them of their ungodly deeds , which they have ungodly committed , and of all their hard speeches , which ungodly sinners have spoken against him . Jude 15. Psal. 50. The next thing observable , that I meet with , is your quoting that in the 3. of the Colossians Verse 1. If you be risen with Christ , seek the things which are above , &c. Of which words the sense may be first considered , and then what force the consequence may be to the purpose . The things above are primarily the joyes of Heaven , 1 Cor. 2. 9. secondarily , the gifts and graces of Gods spirit , as faith , love , sanctitie ; ( according to that of Iames 1. 17. every good gift , and every perfect gift is from above , and commeth down from the father of lights , &c. ) which gifts do far exceed the things below , and are the way to bring us to the Kingdome of Heaven . — Non est via ad Regnum , sine primitiis Regni . The Apostle gives several reasons to move us thus to seek . The first is , because we are risen with Christ sacramentally in Baptisme , Col. 2. 13. ( being ) buried with him in Baptism , wherein also you are risen with him , and really by the inward working of the spirit of God ; which had raised them up from the death of sin , to the life of righteousness ; Titus 3. 5. Secondly , because Christ sits at the right hand of God ; And therefore where our treasure is , there should our hearts be also , Mat. 6. 21. Thirdly , because Christ should come to judgement . When Christ , who is our life shall appear , then shall we also appear with him in glory , Col. 3. 4. by life here is understood eternal life , 1. Iohn 5. 11. also according to that in Heb. 5. 9. he is called our life , because he is the Author of our everlasting life . Fourthly , because he bestows this life Luke 12. 32. But when ( may it be asked ) doth he bestow all this ? At his appearance . Christ appears three wayes . First , corporally , God was manifest in the flesh , 1. Tim. 3. 16. Secondly , spiritually , when he makes himself manifest to the eyes of our souls by the preaching of his word , Gal. 3. 1. Lastly , when he manifesteth himself in glory , and commeth to judge the World , Phil. 3. 20 , 21. Let our conversation be in Heaven , from whence also we look for the Saviour , the Lord Jesus Christ : who shall change our vile body , that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body , according to the mighty working , whereby he is able even to subdue all things to himself . ( In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Iesus ( Christ . ) Rom. 2. 16. ) Not that we shall have other bodies , but the same . Iob sayes , in my flesh shall I see God . I shall see him for my self , and mine eyes shall behold , and not another . Iob 19. 26 , 27. But they shall have new qualities , 1. Cor. 15. 52 , 53 , 54. And now , how doth that text of Col. 3. 1. serve for your purpose ? The truth is , you could not have brought any place that did more strongly confute your Heresie . It seems plainly , you do not understand the Scriptures . I shall adde something before I proceed , concerning the Allegories , which indeed are not Allegories , but fancies , by which you overthrow , ( as much as in you lies ) the true sense and meaning of the Scriptures , the Articles of sound faith , and the foundation of true Religion . You say [ The Scriptures are an Allegorie ] and to prove it , you quote Gal. 3. 24. meaning the 4. 24. Which words are . These things are an Allegory , that is , Abraham having two sons , one by a bond maid , the other by a free-woman : it pleased God to signifie by these two , the two Covenants . Now these being an Allegorie doth it prove , that all the Scriptures are an Allegorie ? What is the History of the creation of the World ? The History of the Kings ? The History of the Acts of the Apostles ? And of our Redemption by Christ ? If you make such Allegories , you will leave nothing sound in the Word of God . The Holy Ghost doth not set down the principles of our Religion , such as are Christs ascension , and his comming to judgement Allegorically , but plainly ; so that , he that runs , may read them , and he that reads may understand them . And I doubt not , but that it will appear to all that are not wilfully blind , that your Book is not truth triumphing against the enemies , and aspersers thereof ; but falshood , aspersing truth , and the defenders of it ; which , by Gods assistance I have wiped away , and howsoever truth may for a time be clouded , yet it will break through the thick mists of errour and Heresie , for The truth is great and will prevail . The end of the first two disputations . CHAP. VII . In this Chapter you go about to overthrow the Resurrection of the body . Although , you say [ I do grant the Resurrection of the body , and do not denie it , though you say I do . ] And again , you say [ there were some then , as well as now , that think the Apostle meant carnally the rising again of the same body of flesh and bones . ] Also you say ( speaking of the Resurrection of the dead Page 34. line 21. ) this Resurrection is to be within you , and you are to know it while you live in this body ] and in page 35. Thus you say , and unsay , and indeed say you know not what ; your intention is , so neer as I can gather , to deny the Resurrection of the body out of the grave , and to allow only of a Resurrection from the death of sin , as may appear in your answer to the 7. Article at the end of your Book , and to maintain ( or rather insinuate ) this , you most wickedly abuse the Scriptures , confound the sense of them , and pervert the meaning of the Holy Ghost . First therefore I will prove the veritie of the Resurrection of the body , and then answer your absurd contradictions and cavils . First , I will prove the Resurrection of the body , by the Resurrection of Christs body , who is our head : and then by the Resurrection of our own , who are his members . Christs Resurrection is confirmed by the Testimony of the four Evangelists . Mat. 28. 7 , 9 , 10 , 12 , 14. Mark 16. 6 , 14. Luke 24. 6 , 7. Iohn 20. 9. And in 1. Cor. 15. 4 , 5 , 6. first , he was seen of Cephas , then of the twelve , afterwards of 500 of the brethren at once . The testimony of Angels Mat. 28. 6. nay , of his enemies , Verse 11 , 12 , 13. some of the watch came into the citie , &c. this now is so plain , that it cannot be denied : and I think you will not be so desperately-wicked , as to say , that this must be understood spiritually of a Resurrection from sin , for Christ was never dead in sin , but purified in the womb — if you should , your Master would confute you . We know who thou art , even the Holy one of Israel . If Christ be risen , how say some among you , that there is no Resurrection , 1 Cor. 15. 12 , 13. — If there be no Resurrection , then is not Christ risen , but Christ is risen , therefore there is a Resurrection , for Christ is a publick person in the place of all mankinde : he rose not for himself , but for us all . And therefore the Apostle uses that expression ▪ as in Adam we all died , so in Christ we shall all be made alive . Again , Christ is compared to the first-fruits , which comparison is very significant , the first-fruits were a sheaf of the first of the Harvest , Levit. 23. 10 , 11. which was raised , and lifted up before the Lord , and then , not only , that was holy , but the whole Crop — Christ likewise was the first and best of the Crop : he was first lifted up , and then not only he , but we all become living Sheafs . Again , the same Corn that is sown , though it be corrupted in the ground , springs up again : so the same body , that is sown shall arise , the qualities thereof being changed , as the Apostle says , it is sown in corruption , it is raised in incorruption : it is sown in weakness , it is raised in power : it is sown a natural body , it is raised again a spiritual body ; not a spirit , but a spiritual body : a body endowed with spiritual qualities , and they are , first , charitie , secondly , impassibilitie , thirdly , agilitie . The just shall shine as the Sun . Mat. 13. 43. 1 Cor. 15. 43 , 44. Rev. 7. 17. Or if Christ be not risen , then are we still in our sins , but we are not still in our sins ; therefore Christ is risen . This argument will clear the matter , if we observe the force of it . The Humanitie of Christ is united unto the God-head , from whence it received spiritual life , now we are united unto Christ by the spirit which createth faith in us . We , I say , not our bodies only , but our souls also . And by vertue of this union , our souls and bodies do rise again , our souls from the death of sin , and our bodies from the death in the grave . If the spirit of him that raised up Iesus from the dead dwell in you : he that raised up Christ from the dead , shall also quicken your mortal bodies . Rom. 8. 11. Lastly , the Resurrection of the body may be proved by that place in Iob , Chap. 19. 25 , 26 , 27. which is a plain prophesie of the Resurrection of the body ; observe the words . I know that my Redeemer liveth , and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth , and though after my skin , Worms destroy this Body , yet in my flesh shall I see God : Whom I shall see for my self , and mine eyes shall behold him and not another , though my reines be consumed within me . Job was then in the condition of a dying man : his skin cleaved to his bones , he was a meer skeleton , and all wordly comfort failed him ; and therefore he comforts himself with this meditation of the Resurrection . I know that my Redeemer liveth , and that he shall stand upon the earth at the last day . The word is not {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} shall stand , but {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} shall rise again upon the earth , though he was not upon the earth by the malice of his enemies , yet he should rise up again and stand , and when should this be ? in the latter day . 2. He argues from our Redeemer to himself , because he shall rise again , I shall rise again : what is done in the head , shall also be done in the members . 3. He saith , I shall see in my flesh with these eyes , and not with anothers . Lastly , for himself , for his benefit , notwithstanding his ●eins were consumed , though he were in that deplorable condition . And what can be more plain to prove the Resurrection of the body ; so that if your eyes be not blinded , that you cannot see , you must of necessity confesse it . You say , here is a Mystery ] there is no Mystery ; except one of your own making , and that is such a confused one , as neither your self , nor any man else knows what to make of it . You say that [ the Redeemer was in Iob , though he knew ●t not . ] How could that be ? doth not his confession of his Redeemer , of the Resurrection , nay , of his own Redeemer prove the contrary ? could any man make such an excellent confession of a thing , and in such a manner , as Iob doth , and not know it ? can such fruits arise from ignorance ? Doth not Iob say plainly , I know that my Redeemer lives ? You say that [ Iob was then in darknesse ] I say so too , if you understand it of his civil estate ; for the Sun of his prosperity was set ; and therefore he comforts himself with a spiritual estate , with the Resurrection ; a usual thing with the holy Prophets , Isa. 26. 19. Thy dead men shall live together with my dead body shall they arise : awake and sing ye that dwell in the dust : for they dew is as the dew of herbs , and the earth shall cast out the dead ▪ See Eze. 37. from the beginning to the ending , where God signifies the deliverance of Israel out of captivity by the Resurrection of the dry bones . To this purpose hath the Apostle Paul expressed himself in 2 Cor. 1. 8 , 9. For we would not brethren have you ignorant , of our trouble which came to us in Asia , that we were pressed out of measure , above strength , in so much that we despaired even of life . But we had the sentence of death in our selves , that we should not trust in our selves , but in God which raiseth the Dead . But you say [ Iob was then in darknesse , uttering words without knowledge , for which he was reproved , first , by Elihu , Secondly , by the Lord , and thirdly , he confest it . 1. Oh horrible , that you should have the impudence to say , or infer , that [ Elihu reproved Iob , ] for that most excellent Confession ] when it is plain , as the Sun , that he reprehended him for saying , I am clean , and there is no unrighteousnesse in me &c. Iob 33. 9. doth not Elihu restrain his words to the same expression . Behold in this thou art not just verse 12. 2. You affirm that [ God reproved him for it . ] By which it seems you know not what you say , or care not what you affirm ; for that which God reproved him for , was , for standing too much upon his own innocency . And though Iob was not thus afflicted for his sin , but for a Triall ( as appears Chap. 1. and Chap 2. ) yet was there matter enough in him that deserved it , if God should have entred into judgement with him . 3. You say that [ Iob confest it . ] Doth he confesse that he had erred in that confession of his , concerning the resurrection ? or that he had maintained a false cause ? no , God himself determines the contrary Chap. 42. 7. My servant Iob hath spoken the thing that is right , and you have not ; and therefore they were appointed to go to Iob , that he might pray for them . The cause that Iobs friends maintained was : that God did handle men in this world according to their deserts , and therefore Iob was a wicked and cursed creature , because thus afflicted and tormented . Iob maintained the contrary , that God did not alwayes handle men according to their deserts in this world ; for , many times , the wicked have prosperitie , and Gods children adversitie . Iob 21. 8. Now though the foundation of Iobs cause were good , yet in the prosecuting of it , he committed many errours , through the infirmities of the flesh , for which God reproved him : but on the contrary the foundation of his adversaries cause was evil . 'T is therefore a false , and an impudent assertion , to say , as you do , [ that Iob never spoke the thing that was right of the Lord , until he said , now do mine eyes see thee , ] &c. Job 42. 5 , 6. The reason that moves you to deny , ( or at least to underminde , and overthrow , ) the Resurrection of the bodie is , because there is a Resurrection of the soul , and you may aswel denie there is no death of the body , because there is a death of the soul in sin ; as Satan slays both , so Christ doth raise up both in his members . If the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead be in you , he that raised up Jesus , shall also quicken your mortal bodies , &c. Rom. 8. 11. but this hath been sufficiently proved already ; I shall only adde our Saviours argument to the Sadduces . Mat. 22. 23 , 24. unto Verse 32. God is not the God of the dead , but of the living ; for all live unto him , that is , they are alive in his account , because he hath decreed to raise them again . I shall turn your proof out of the 11. Iohn Vers . the 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 25. upon your self , Christ comes to Bethany , where Lazarus lived , who was now dead : Martha goes forth to meet him , saying ; Lord if thou hadst been here , my brother had not died : Christ answered , thy brother shall rise again ; and this is spoken of the Resurrection of the body , for his soul was then in the hands of God . Martha replies ; I know that he shall rise again in the Resurrection at the last day . So 't is plain , that the Resurrection was no strange , and new doctrine then ( though it be now so to you ) Martha knew it , and believed it : as did Iob also , Iob 19. Christ taught it saying , I am the Resurrection , and the life , Iohn 10. 25. that is , the cause of the Resurrection of the body , and the life of the soul , not a bare signe to signifie ( as you falsely and foolishly affirmed ) but an effectual cause , 1 Cor. 15. 20 , 21 , 22. also he teaches it , Iohn 2. 19 , 20 , 21. where he saith unto the Jews , destroy this temple , and in three dayes I will raise it up again , which he spake of the temple of his body ; mark Christ , can any thing be more plain , which he performed accordingly , Mat. 28. Mark 16. Luke 24. now Christ was a publick person , what he did , he did not for himself , but for us also ; so that if we believe that Jesus is dead , and is risen , even so them that sleep in Jesus will God bring with him . CHAP. VIII . In this Chapter the doctrine of the Trinity is principally treated of : I will therefore first set down the truth ; that we may the better discern the falshood . The Doctrine of the Trinity . God is a most simple , infinite , eternal , immutable , and omnipotent spirit . One in essence , three in Persons , Father , Son , and the Holy Ghost . A spirit , Iohn 4. 24. simple , Col. 1. 15. 1. Tim. 1. 17. the image of the invisible God , whom no man hath seen , nor can see . Eternal , Exo. 3. 14 , 15. Immutable , Mal. 3. 6. Omnipotent , Gen. 17. 1. Rev. 19. 6. I name but some of his Attributes , because I am to speak principally of the Trinity . God is one in essence , three in Persons , Father , Son , and Holy Ghost . One in essence , Deut. 6. 4. 1 Cor. 8. 6. Three in Person , Father , Son , and the spirit , 1 Iohn 5. 7. an example we finde of this in the Baptisme of Christ . The Father speaks from Heaven , the Son stands in the Water , and the Holy Ghost descends in the likeness of a Dove . As in the Sun , there is the body of the Sun , the beams issuing from the body , and the light ▪ and yet there is not 3. Suns , but one Sun : so is there , the Father , the Word and the Spirit , three distinct Persons in the Deity ; and yet not three , but one God . These three you call [ three Manifestations ] Which are three Persons , three Hypostases , three Subsistances in one essence : as in a Rivulet , there is the fountain , or Well-head in the Earth , the spring boyling out of it , and the stream which is made of them both , and dilateth or sheadeth it self far from thence , which three are distinct subsistances , and yet but one Water . You tell us of Christs being within us , &c. We know it . But not corporally , for so he is in Heaven — but spiritually , or by his spirit 1 Cor. 6. 19. know you not that your body is the Temple of the holy Ghost , which is in you , &c. this spirit unites us to Christ , by working faith in us , whereby we are united to him , according to that in Ephes. 3. 17. That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith : and Christ is said to dwell in us by faith , because as the body from the head receives life and motion ; so do we from Christ , who is our head , and we his members . You tell us , that [ God the Father did appear as a Son ] Which is false , it was God the Son that took our nature upon him . In the fulness of time God sent his Son , Gal. 4. 4. The Father never appeared , or spake immediately , but twise , and that was at the Baptisme of Christ , and in his Transfiguration , Mat. 3. 17. Mat. 17. 5. You say [ now so long as man is without this manifestation of God which is Christ , in him , he is a Reprobate . ] This is also false , for Christ telleth us , that he hath Sheep that are not called , aswell as Sheep that are called , Iohn 10. 16. other Sheep I have which are not called , that is , that have not this spiritual manifestation . Now until men are called , and converted , we know , they have not the manifestation of the spirit : and we know also , that there is a spiritual desertion , sometimes for trial as in Iob , sometimes for correction as in David , and yet neither of these were Reprobates . You say [ what is a Reprobate , but not to have Christ in you . ] Which is a most absurd definition of a Reprobate : and to prove it , you produce Rom. 1. 28. because they did not like or retain God in their knowledge , God gave them over to a reprobate minde . When Reprobation , is a part of Gods eternal decree , whereby God hath purposed to pass by some , that were in the state of corruption , as well as to elect others unto eternal salvation , Rom. 9. 11 , 12 , 13. &c. Now how doth your definition suit unto this ? Nay , how doth that of Rom. 1. 28. prove your definition , which was a spiritual judgement inflicted upon the Heathen , for not walking according to that natural light , which God had imprinted in their minds ; which indeed was a fearful judgement , whether it be taken actually , or passively : if actually , as a mind approving things to be reproved , and reproving things to be approved , a mind judging good to be evil , and evil to be good . Iob 21. 14. Isa. 5. 20. Wo unto them that call good evil , and evil good ; that put light for darkness , and darkness for light . Or else passively , as a mind reprobated , and rejected of God : and such a mind was in Abab , who sold himself , &c. in Iudas that sold his Master , in Esau , that sold his birth-right , or blessing Something more is insinuated by you in the end of this Chapter for universal Redemption . And to prove it , you mention that of 1 Tim. 2. 4 , 5. Who will have all men to be saved , &c. which is understood of his revealed will , which is , if they repent and believe , Iohn 3. 14 , 15 , 16. Mark 1. 15. Mat. 16. 15 , 16. Acts 20. 20 , 21. and many more places , so that if they repent , and believe , they shall be saved , if not , for ought that God hath revealed unto us , they are utterly lost . But have all men power to repent and believe ? By nature they have not : For we are dead in trespasses and sins , Ephe. 2. 5. and God must quicken , and put life into us ; before there can be any motion in us : and this he doth put into his elect by his spirit , ( the Word and Sacraments being instruments ) Ephes. 4. 20. which because God doth minister by men , it is therefore attributed to the Ministers of the Gospel , 1 Cor. 4. 15. Let therefore men so account of us , as of the Ministers of Christ , and Stewards of the Mysteries of God . 1 Cor. 4. 1. Trample not therefore Gods Ordinances under your feet , lest you neglect your own Salvation . CHAP. IX . The subject of this Chapter is the sin against the Holy Ghost , of the which , I could wish you were as clear , as you are ignorant , but your ignorance must be your best Plea , otherwise , scarce any ventured farther to be guiltie of it , then you have done . First , we will set down the nature of it , so far forth as it is revealed in the Scriptures unto us . It is called the sin against the Holy Ghost , not because it is done only against the Deitie of the Holy Ghost ; for he that sins against the Deitie of the Holy Ghost , sins also against the Deitie of the Father , and the Son , because the three Persons are all one God : but because it is against the immediate action of the Holy Ghost , that is , against his immediate Illumination ; for albeit this be a work common to the three Persons in the Trinity , yet , because the Father , and the Son do effect this by the holy Ghost , it is therefore called the sin against the holy Ghost onely . 1. The efficient cause of it is obstinate Malice against God and against Christ , as in Julian the Apostate ; who when he was strucken with an arrow , received the blood , issuing out of his wound , into his hands , & he threw it up despitefully into the Aire , and cryed , Vicisti Galilee . 2 The object of this sin is God himself , and the mediator Jesus Christ . Heb. 10. 29 , 30. 3. The subject in which it is found , is onely such as have been inlightned by the spirit of God , and have tasted of the good gift of God Heb. 6. 5. So that the elect cannot commit this sin , and therefore they that feel in themselves a sure testimony of their election , need not despaire ; for they are kept by the power of God unto life everlasting . This sin cannot be forgiven ; not because it is greater then the merit of Christ can satisfie for ; but because , after a man hath once committed this sin , it is impossible for him to repent ; for the gift of Repentance proceedeth from the Holy Ghost and the Holy Ghost remaineth in us through Christ apprehended by faith ; now no man doth apprehend Christ , who doth maliciously despise and contemn him . Out of this which hath been spoken , we may thus define this sin . The sin against the holy Ghost is a voluntary denyall of , and blasphemie against the Son of God , or of that truth which was before acknowledged concerning him ; and so consequently a Vniversal defection from God and his Church . We have an Example of this in the devil , who though he knew well enough that Iesus was the Christ , yet he never ceased both wittingly and willingly to oppose the very sacred Majesty of God in him , together with the kingdom of Iesus ; that as far forth as he could he might utterly supplant the same by the Pharisees . Mat. 12. 32. Iohn 3. 2. Now Sir , consider whether those men , that have maintained the articles of that faith into which they have been baptized ( which articles have been and are professed by all the true Christian Churches in the world , and are firmly g rounded upon the word of God , which is the pillar of our faith ) have committed this sin , or you that have first profest , and afterwards fallen away from the faith , and opposed the chief Articles , or fundamental points of it , ( as Christs conception , in saying he was conceived in original sin , and so raze the very foundation of true Religion ; for if the root be impure all the Branches must be impure : Christ then would have needed a Saviour himself , and could not have saved others . 2. His Resurrection , his Ascension , his session at the right hand of God ) I say , examine your own conscience , whether you can be clear or not , who have done all this by your senselesse Alegories : for my part I leave it to God to judge , who searches the heart , and knowes whether you have done his out of malice or ignorance . Now it is fit your weak and absurd description of the sin against the Holy Ghost be examined . You say [ to sin against the holy Ghost , is to rebell , to war , to resist the spirit ] and to prove it you bring Chap. 5. to the Gal. v. 17. The words are these . The flesh lusteth against the spirit &c. and so by consequence you make the flesh lusting against the spirit , to be the sin against the holy Ghost . A sin which Gods best children are guilty of ▪ Read Rom. 7. 21 , 22 , 23. This deserves to be hiss'd at , rather then answered : and let me advise you to read more , and write lesse ; For , howsoever your purblinde seduced Followers may beleeve you , yet all men of sound judgement will plainly see , that it is not the spirit of God , that hath inspired you , but the spirit of blindnesse and ignorance that hath missed you . I woulde here conclude this Chapter , but that you confesse the sin against the holy Ghost shal never be forgiven in this world nor in the world to come ; which is the truth grounded upon the words of Christ Matth. 12. 32. and therefore by your own confession , such as commit thissi nne , shall never be redeemed out of hell . CHAP. 10. In this Chapter you endeavour to prove , that man shall not be destroyed , but onely the sin that is in man . Your words are [ Therefore man shall not be destroyed , but the work of the Devil in him . ] Your first argument to prove this is : because God made man , therefore man shall not be destroyed : and you may as well say , Because God made all sensitive and vegetable creatures , ( as Beasts and Plants ) therefore they shall not be destroyed . Are not the Creatures made subject to vanity by reason of the sin of man ? if they be , much more shall man that made them subject , be subject himself . What do you think of the old world , were not they created by God ? yet you know they were destroyed . You will say this was but a temporal destruction : it is to be hoped , that when the waters rose upon the earth many repented , and so , though their bodies perished , yet their souls were saved ; but yet the most part perished both temporally and eternally , as Peter testifies 1 Pet. 3. 19. Your 2. Argument is [ Christ came into the World to save Man , the work of God , but all mankinde is the work of God , therefore Mankind who is the image of God shall not be destroyed ] is not here a goodly conclusion , that hath more in it then the premises ? to answer it ; though man that is renewed & restored to the image of God shall not be destroyed ; yet man that is not restored to the image of God shall be destroyed , though he be his Creature ; for without holiness no man shall see God . Depart from me , I know you not , ye workers of iniquity . Thirdly , your third argument is [ Christ came into the World to destroy the works of the Divel , therefore man shall not be destroyed ] how doth this follow ? Your argument ought to be thus framed . Christ came to destroy the works of the Divel in men ; therefore those men , in whom the works of the Divel are destroyed , shall not be destroyed , but there are some that have not the works of the Divel destroyed in them , Jo. 8. 44. therefore they shall be destroyed . Your fourth argument is [ if man must die for his own sins , and go to Hell with them , in vain then did Christ die for mans sins ] pray , where lies the fault , in Christ , or in the man , that will not applie Christs death unto his soul for his Salvation ? Rom. 9. 30 , 31 , 32. 1 Cor. 1. 18. A Physitian composeth a medicine which is able to cure his patient , and to save him fromdeath ; but the patient will not apply it for his remedie , according to that in Jer. 51. 9. Balm was provided for her , but she would not be cured ; and likewise , the Pharisees rejected the Counsel of God against their own Salvation . Luke 7. 30. Christ would have gathered Jerusalems Children together , as a Hen doth gather her Brood under her wings , and they would not . Luke 13. 34. Something is here spoken of that place of Scripture , 1 Iohn 3. 8. He that commits sin is of the Divel , &c. that is , he that commits sin as the Divel doth ; or as did the Pharisees , John 8. 44. ye are of your father the Divel , and the lusts of your father ye will do : he was a murderer from the beginning , and abode not in the truth , because there is no truth in him ▪ but to infer from this Text , that he which commits sin , although of infirmitie , ( as Paul did , Rom. 7. 14 , 15 , 16. ) is a most impudent perverting of Scripture . Do not the best of Gods children sin ? In many things we sin all , saith the Apostle James . If there be any that saith he hath no sin , he makes God a lyer , and his word is not in him , 1 Iohn 1. 10. Peter confesseth as much of himself , when he saith , Depart from me , for I am a sinful man . Luke 5. 8. But you urge Christ came to destroy the works of the Divel , 't is true ; but not in your sense , but in the sense , which the Scriptures do allow , that is , Christ came to destroy the works of the Divel , which he did by his death , and Resurrection . He did not only justifie us , Rom. 6. 22. but also sanctifie us , Rom. 6. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. &c. Christ loved his Church , and gave himself for it , that he might sanctifie and cleanse it , &c. Ephe. 5. 25 , 26. yet so long as she is in this world the Jebusite will dwell in her coast , with whom she must have a continual conflict , which made Paul himself to say , I am carnal , sold under sin , Rom. 7. 14. carnal , but not totally , as the unregenerate are , but partly carnal , and partly spiritual : the flesh lusting against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh ; and therefore he cries out , O wretch that I am , who shall deliver me from this body of sin : mark what he saith , me , and therefore he speaks in the Person of a Regenerate man . And this may serve to satisfie Captain Smiths question , whether Paul spake in the person of a Regenerate , or unregenerate man , in that he saith , who shall deliver me . You say in the conclusion of the tenth Chapter [ it is manifest that all men were , and are , the people of God , though untill this work of Regeneration is wrought in them , they do not appear to be of God , but of the Divel . ] To the first part of this assertion , I shall only oppose that of Rom. 9. 6 , 7 , 8. for they are not all Israel , which are of Israel : neither because they are the seed of Abraham , are they all children : but in Isaac shall thy seed be called , that is , they which are the children of the flesh , these are not the children of God , &c. To the latter part , wherein you do most falsely affirm , that all shall be regenerated , I shall only ask when Cain , Judas , or Julian were regenerated , or when those that are in prison , 1 Pet. 3. 19 , 20. which contemned the preaching of Noah , were regenerated ? I did think to end , concerning this Chapter ; but that looking back to the middle of this Chapter , I finde such a kinde of judgement that was never heard of before . You say [ I do not denie the comming of Christ to render vengeance to whom it belongs , for vengeance is mine , faith the Lord , and I will repay ; therefore some hath it now , and he is come , and doth come , and will come to take vengeance on all that know him not ( and is of the Divel ) in me , you , and every man else . ] By which if you mean the conversion of a sinner , as it seems you do , by your instance of the example of St. Paul , Acts 9. that cannot be rightly called a judgement , but is indeed a great mercy that the Lord should convert such a sinner that was going to Antioch to persecute the church . If you mean the judgement of an evil conscience , which accuses men for sin , I do confess it is a very great judgement , a very Hell upon earth ; and though it be begun here in this life , it doth not follow , that it shall not continue hereafter ; for our Saviour tells us , Their Worm dieth not , and the fire is not quenched , Mark 9. 46. which shall be fulfilled after the great and general day of judgment , then they shall be cast into He●l fire . If you mean a temporal judgement , such as was inflicted on Egypt , Sodome , or on the old world , it makes not for you , but against you , for from those judgements St. Peter proves the great and general day of judgement , as you may read , 2 Pet. 2. Verse 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. But pray , what shall we make of this expression ( and is of the Divel ) if we leave out the Parenthesis , that Paragraph is abominable non-sense , if it be taken in , we must desire your own exposition ; for we can expound it no otherwise , then literally as it lies , that the Divel is in you , and hath set you to work , as all that read your Book may safely judge . CHAP. XI . in this Chapter you maintain that [ all both Jews , and Gentiles shall be saved ] Contrary to the very words of Christ , Luke 13. 23 , 24. Then said one unto him , Lord , are there few that shall be saved ? and he said unto them , strive to enter in at the strait Gate ; for many , I say unto you , will seek to enter in , and shall not be able , &c. to the 31. Verse : wide is the Gate , and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction , and many there be that go in thereat : and strait is the Gate , and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life , and few there be that finde it . Mat. 7. 13 , 14. The number of fools is infinite , but those that are truly wise are but a few , a little flock , Luke 12. 32. Christendome is the least part of the World , and those that truly profess Christ are the least part of Christendome , and of those many are called , few chosen . You may remember , you are told in Scripture of the seed of the Serpent , and the seed of the Woman , and of the continual enmitie between them ; from whence proceeds that war , that is between the Dragon , and his Angels ; and Michael and his Angels Rev. 12. 7. but for this you have invented a weak , and contemptible shift ; saying , or at least insinuating that [ by the seed of the Serpent is meant sin . ] When it is as apparent as the sight at Noon-day , that by the seed of the Serpent is meant Satan , and the wicked : for in what sense the seed of the Woman is understood , in the same sence is understood the seed of the Serpent ; but the seed of the Woman is understood literally , first and principally , for Christ the head of the Church , and then for all that are his * members , and therefore the seed of the Serpent is understood literally . First , for the * Dragon , and also for his Angels , and Instruments as Persecutors , Hereticks , and all profane and ungodly persons , that live in sin without Repentance , who are therefore called the seed of the Divel , Iohn 8. 44. You are of your father the Divel , and the works of your father you will do . Further to confirm this your errour , ( as you would have your followers believe ) you alledge several places of Scripture to prove that the benefit of Christs death belongs to all , ( as in your former Chapter ) the places are Rom. 11 : 32. 1 Tim. 2. 4. Io. 3. 17. But all this as I said before is under a condition of faith , that men do believe , and applie it unto themselves by the hand of a true , and a lively faith ; to this purpose is that of Rom. 1. 16. Gal. 3. 22. Iohn 3. 16. Acts 10. 43 : ( and surely there is a generalitie of them , that believe as there is of the whole world ) and if they believe not , they have not the benefit of Christs death . He that believeth not shall be damned , Mark 16. 16. and Iohn 3. 16. as those that were stung with the brazen Serpent , and afterwards looked upon it , were healed , so those that looked not upon it died of their wounds . Among those places of Scripture , which you name to prove this errour , you alledge Rom. 8. 33. but the words are falsified , and the sense perverted by you . You write the words thus . [ And it is God that justifies sinners ] the words are . Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods elect , it is God that justifies . Here you leave out Gods elect , whom the words only concern , and put in sinners , a word that is not in the place : and whereas the Apostle speaks of Gods elect , you extend it to sinners , to all , and so pervert the meaning of the spirit of God . By what hath been already said , it appeareth plainly , that all shall not be saved ; but from generals , we will come to particulars , and first , not all the Jews , neither shall all the Gentiles . Not all the Jews . Though the number of Israel be as the sand of the Sea , yet a Remnant shall be saved , Rom. 9. 27. which words are taken out of Isa. 10. 20 , 21. they were spoken of the destruction of Israel by Senacherib , when Ierusalem only escaped of all the land : or else of the destruction of the people by Nebuchadnezzar , when most of the people were destroyed , and a remnant carried away Captive into Assyria : which is prophetically spoken of the time of grace , wherein most of the Jews perished through incredulitie , and hardness of heart . The consideration whereof caused the Apostle to wish he were cut off from Christ , for the Salvation of so great a number that perished , Rom. 9. 3. And as there shall not be a universal salvation of the Jews , so also not of the Gentiles , for there is a fulness of the Gentiles , as well as a fulness of the Jews ; but Plenitudo haec non ad numerum cunctorum pertinet , sed ad numerum a Deo praefinitum , Haymo . Which is plainly shewed in Rev. 7. 4. where it is said , that of the Tribes were sealed 144. thousand , not that there were no more , or fewer ; but he sets down a definite number for an indefinite , 144 thousand , as a great number , but what are these compared to all the rest in Moses time : there were 600. thousand fighting men ; and in the dayes of David 15. hundred thousand and more , it is therefore apparent , that but a remnant , Rom. 9. 27. Though the children of Israel be as the sand of the Sea , a Remnant shall be saved . Secondly , a fulness of the Gentiles there is also . After that I beheld , and loe a great number of all nations , kindred , and people , &c. Rev. 7. 9. he doth not say there , that all nations , and kindred , and people were sealed ; but , a great multitude of them : which multitude compared to them that are left , is but as an handful to an harvest , and as the gleaning of the Grapes , when the Vintage is ended , as our Saviour himself testifies , Mat. 7. 14 , 15. if a Prince should press throughout his Dominions three , or four out of every parish , and then draw them together , they would be a great army , or multitude ; but then compare them to those which are left , and they will be but a few , which should warn us to take heed to our selves : the fewer there shall be saved , the more careful should we be to make our calling and election sure , by well-doing and walking in the wayes of Gods Commandements : and also to be thankful to God that hath called us , and left others , as we see many thousands , that have not the means of Salvation , both in the east and west Indies : and to express our thankfulness by our fruitfulness , left God remove away his Candlestick . You alledge divers places of Scripture to no purpose , ( unlesse to deceive the ignorant , who are commonly taken with it , though the places quoted are meerly contradictory to the matter in hand ) as Rom. 11. 16. For we do not deny , but that the generality of the Jews , that remain at the latter end of the World shall be called and converted , Christ himself hath taught it . But what is this for the salvation of those many thousands that have died long before from the time of Christ in their infidelity and hardnesse of heart , contemning the Gospel , and blaspheming his name , doth not the Apostle tell us plainly they shall be cut off ? and what becomes of branches cut off ? are they not cast into the fire . Iohn 15. 6. If a man abide not in me , he is cast forth as a Branch , and is withered , and men gather them , and cast them into the fire , and they are burned . Now I desire to know , how these shall be converted , who it is , that shall preach to them , or whether the damned are capable of true Repentance . Likewise you quote Psa. 2. 8. Ask of me , and I shall give thee the Heathen for thine inheritance , and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession What doth this make for redemption out of hell ? God doth not say not say that he shall give him the Devils , and the damned for his inheritance , and the uttermost parts of Hell for his possession . You undertake to commend your Doctrine by the efficacy and fruits of it ; but first prove the truth of it , and we will consider the fruits of it : till that be proved , I hope no man will be so weak as to approve of it ; but I doubt not , that what hath here been said will save the labour , and shew , it is apparently false . But to give the more seeming Lustre and credit to it , you tax us for preaching wrath , Hell and damnation to prove souls that are weak in the faith . Which is not the first lie that-such black-mouth'd Locusts have cast upon our labours . We speak in the spirit of meeknesse , to binde up the broken-hearted , and poure into their aking wounds the balm of Gilead : for the spirit of mourning , the blood of Christ to comfort-their hearts , and to heal their wounds ; but we preach wrath , Hell , and damnation ( not to the weak in faith ) but against obstinate sinners , dissembling Hypocrites , and apostatised Hereticks : and for this we have both example and precept from our Saviour himself Mat. 10. 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. Verily I say unto you , it shall be more easie for Sodom and Gomorah in the day of judgement then for that City Mark 16. 16. He that beleeveth and is Baptized shall be saved ; but he that beleeveth not shall be damned . Now also what he commands , that he himself practises . Wo unto thee Chorazin , wo unto thee Bethsaida , &c. Matth. 11. 21. Wo unto the world , because of offences Mat. 18. 7. How many woes hath he denounced against the scribes and Pharisees , Mat. 23. 13 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 23 , 25 , 27 , 29. We must not sow pillows under mens elbowes that they may sleep at ease in sin ; if we do , we shall answer for it Eze. 13. 10 , 20. We have good Counsel in Jude v. 22 , 23. And of some have compassion making a difference : and others save with fear , pulling them out of the fire , To some then , a Minister must be a Barnabas , a son of consolation , to divulge Gods mercies , as to the broken hearted , Acts. 4. 36. To others a Boanerges , the son of thunder to denounce Gods judgements , as to obstinate sinners . Mark 3. 17. You say [ that no man can be assured of his own salvation , except he see the same Salvation in the same Saviour for all men , as well as for himself . ] And again , that this Doctrine [ remains damnable to all that beleeve it not ] May we not say then that St. Paul was in a very sad condition if this were true : for he undoubtedly beleeved it not , who taught the quite contrary Rom. 2. 6 , 7. Rom. 9. 11 , 12 , 18. 2 Thes. 1. 6 , 7 , 8 , 9. Yet was he assured of his own salvation , as appears out of Rom. 8. 38. and so may any man else , that hath the testimony of Gods spirit , though he never heard of your Doctrine . CHAP. XII . In this Chapter you oppose Christs coming to Iudgement in that sense in which it is set down in the Creed , confirmed by the Scripture , and received by all the Christian Churches in the World ; and this under the colour of a spiritual judgement which God inflicts upon unbeleevers , and obstinate sinners in this life : as though , because there were an inward judgement , therefore there should not be an outward , a secret judgement , therefore not an open . Doth not Saint Paul teach the contrary Rom. 2. 5. Thou after thy hardnesse and impenitent heart , treasurest up unto thy self wrath against the day of wrath and Revelation of the righteous judgement of God &c. Again , because wicked men have here inward darknesse , therefore you conclude they shall not be cast into outward darknesse . Christ himself teacheth otherwise Math. 8. 12. The children of the kingdom shall be cast into outward darknesse , there shall be weeping and Gnashing of teeth . and so likewise in Mat. 22. 23. and 25 , 30 , or if by judgement you mean regeneration , as it seems you do , that is not a judgement but a great mercy , that God should take men out of the power of darknesse , and translate them into the kingdome of his dear Son . And this judgement ( as you call it ) is not general but an especial grace belonging unto the Church of Christ , as appears Ephe. 1 3 , 4 Cap. 2. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. Cap. 5. 25 , 26. 1 Pet. 2. 9 , 10. Col. 1. 12 , 13. yea , from this we may take a medium to prove the general day of judgement , because the tares must be separated from the wheat , the sheep from the goats , which man cannot do , who knows not the heart , but God that searcheth the heart , and trieth the reines , and he shall do it openly at the general day of Judgement ; as our Saviour , Math. 25. 31 , 32 , 34 &c. but because you denie this article of our faith , I shall confirm it out of the Scriptures ; and first I shall begin with Enoch , cited by Iude Verses 14 , 15. Whole Sermons of our Saviour , Mat. 24. 31. to the end of that Chapter , and Mat. 25. Acts 17. 31. 1 Thes. 4. 16. Heb. 9. 27. Rev. 1. 7. Rev. 20. 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. with many more , which I shall desire the unsatisfied Reader , ( if any such there can be ) to read them in the Bible , and save the labour of Repetition : and in the reading them , he shall not only finde the truth and ground of this general judgement , but the very circumstances of as it . 1. The Person that shall judge , Iesus Christ . 2. The time , the latter end of the world . 3. The place , the clouds . 4. The manner of his comming to judgement , with majestie and great glory , and all his holy Angels . 5. The persons that shall be judged , the quick and the dead . 6. The judges action , He shall separate . 7. His sentence , Come ye blessed , go ye cursed . 8. The execution , These shall go into everlasting life , those into everlasting torment . And now , what can be more evident ; so that you your self , that have wickedly contradicted it , cannot but confess it , unless you are given up to believe your own delusions , and on the contrary to denie a truth , as apparent , as the light of the Sun at Noon-day , in the Scriptures , and that without any figure . You object Heb. 9. 27. it is appointed for all men once to die , but after this the judgement , and say [ this death is a dying into sin and trespasses . ] First for the place of Scripture : what can be more plain and forcible against you . It is decreed ; where ? Gen. 2. 17. In the day that thou eatest thereof , thou shalt surely die , and so it was ; for , from that time , he and all his posteritie were subject unto death , and as death is decreed , so is also judgement : God hath appointed a time , in which he will judge the world , Acts 17. 31. and this is not before death , as you would have it , but after death . The words are , after death comes the judgement ; but you say this is meant of a spiritual death , a silly shift ; did God appoint that any man should die the death of sin ? no , he appointed him to die a death for sin , and transgressions . Secondly , its manifest , the Apostle spake here of a corporal death , he answers an objection : to wit , if Christ be the Messias ; how comes it to pass that he died ? His answer is , it was appointed for all men to die , and therefore for him : now I hope you will not be so graceless , as to say , that Christ ever died the death of sin ; and therefore it must be understood a death of the body , which he voluntarily suffered , that he might destroy him that had power of death , which was the Divel . Heb. 2. 14. Your second objection is taken out of Iohn 5. 22. The father judgeth no man , but hath committed all judgement to the Son . That is , the father judgeth the world in and by the Son : and he doth it not with partialitie , as do corrupt judges , but with righteous judgement ; for we are sure that the judgement of God is according to truth , Rom. 2. 2. and verse the sixth , who will render to every man according to his deeds , to them who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory , ( &c. ) Eternal life ; but to them that are contentious , and do not obey the truth , indignation and wrath , &c. and when ? at the day of the Revelation of the righteous judgement of God . Third objection , 1 Pet. 4. 17. For the time is come , that judgement shall begin at the house of God : to whom I answer , if it shall begin with us , what shall become of those that abide not in the Gospel . The same Apostle doth resolve it , 2 Pet. 2. 9. The Lord knoweth how to deliver the righteous out of temptations , and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement to be punished . Fourth objection out of Mal. 3. 3. He shall sit as a Refi●er and Purifier of silver : and he shall purifie the Sons of Levi , &c. which words are spoken of Christs first comming in the flesh , as appears by that spoken before in the first Verse , behold I will send my messenger before : which is applied unto Iohn the Baptist , Mat. 11. 10. Behold I send my messenger before thy face , which shall prepa●e thy way before thee . But what shall become of those that will not be purified , that will not abide the day of his comming : surely you shall finde another day for them in Mal. 4. 1. Behold the day commeth that shall burn , as an Oven , and all the proud , yea , and all that do wickedly shall be stubble , &c. Fifth objection out of 2 Pet. 3. 8. one day is with the Lord , as a thousand years , and a thousand years , as one day , for answer to which , ( that I may conclude , ) I will only adde the foregoing words of Peter , on which these have dependence ; and in which the objector is concerned . Knowing this ( saith the Apostle Verse the third ) there shall come in the last dayes Scoffers , walking after their own lusts , and saying , where is the promise of his comming ? For since the fathers fell asleep , all things continue as they were from the creation : for this they are willingly ignorant of , &c. Verse 9. but the Lord is not slack . I need not adde more to prove the veritie of the general judgement at the last day , which is written with a beam of the Sun , and with the very finger of God : if you be not past all shame , be ashamed of your damnable doctrine whereby you endeavour to overthrow ( as you are truly told by Mr. Head ) the very fundamentals of Christian Religion . CHAP. XIII . The practise of Magistrates and Ministers , discovered how they one uphold another , to serve not the Lord , but themselves . ] The Magistrates and Ministers do not denie , that they defend one the other , and in so doing , they fulfil their dutie , serve the Lord , and discharge a good conscience . For they are the two hands , by which the Lord doth govern his people : and as one hand ought to help , and assist the other , so ought the Magistrate and Minister to strengthen and defend one another . Thou leadest thy people like Sheep by the hands of Moses and Aaron , Psal. 77. 20. who was it that led his people ? God ; wherewith ? By the hands ; of whom ? Of Moses and Aaron : what were they ? The Prince and the Priest , the Magistrate and the Minister . That these were ordained by God to assist each other , you may read , Exod. 4. 14 , 15 , 16. and how they did assist each other , you may finde in Exod. 7. and Numb. 16. when Jannes and Iambres withstood Moses , Aaron lends him his Rod ; and when Corah , Dathan , and Abiram , that cursed crue , rose against Aaron , crying out ( as such as you do by us ) ye take too much upon you , ye sons of Levi , all the Lords people are holy ; Moses lends him his hand , as you may read in Numb. 16. Both Magistrates and Ministers are the Lords Shepherds , under Christ the great Shepherd of our souls : and both must joyn together in defending the flock from the teeth of the Wolf , and from the Claws of other ravenous beasts , that seek to devour them , the Ministers with the sword of the spirit , and the Magistrate with the sword of Justice : for the first , read Tit. 3. 10. Ephe. 4. 11. 1 Cor. 12. 28 , 29. for the second read Rom. 13. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. 1 Pet. 2. 13 , 14. and Deut. 13. It is a great curse to have evil Magistrates or evil Ministers , and yet it is a far greater to have none at all ; for then every man teacheth what he will 2 Chron. 15. 3 , 4 , 5. every man doth what he will , Micah sets up Idolatry , and consecrates a Priest , Iudges 17. the poor Levite hath his Concubin ravished , and Dan goes a robbing , Iudg. 18. Those , that under colour of Christian libertie , go about to take away Ecclesiastical and Civil Government , abuse the Scriptures , and as much as in them lies , endeavour to destroy both Church and state ; for the libertie which the Scripture speaks of ( in Gal. 5. 1. ) is a liberty from the Ceremonial Law , from the power and dominion of sin , from the rigor and curse of the Law , and a liberty in good things , not an Exemption from Ecclesiastical and civil Government , as is apparent in Rom. 13. 1 Pet. 2. Heb. 13. 17. Those therefore that resist the powers , resist the ordinance of God , and shall receive to themselves Damnation . Also they endeavour to overthrow the Christian State , ubi nullus Gubernator corruit Populus . Prov. 11. 14. as a ship without a Pilot ; so a people without a Governour , and Counsel , must and will fall : and excellent is that prayer of Moses , Num. 27. 16 Let the Lord the God of the spirits of all flesh set a man over the congregation which may go out and in before them ▪ that the Congregation of the Lord be not as sheep which have no shepherd . You say [ let the people judge who thy are that cause divisions ] we also say the like , and that the Apostle in that place of Rom. 16. 17 , 18. tells them who they are . They that teach Doctrine contrary to that which they had been taught . Now I pray , who do so ? you that overthrow the Articles of our faith , in that sense they are delivered , received , and beleeved by all the Christian Churches in the World ; or we that defend them : you that by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple Rom. 16. 18. or we who tell them the truth ; that if they live and die in their sins , in following after unrighteousnesse and disobeying the truth . The Lord in flaming fire shall take vengeance on them , for they shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord , &c. read 2 Thes. 1. 8 , 9. Rom. 2. 9 , 10. You that speak evill of Dignities , and despise Dominions . Iud. 8. or we that defend them ? T is you build up Babel with blood , and raise the foundation of Sion , you cannot be said to build up Sion , in that you cause the people to err by crying peace when there is no peace , that all mankinde Iew and Gentile shall be saved , contrary to the very words of Christ , Matth. 25. 46. 2. That a Regenerate man cannot sin , contrary to St. Paul Rom. 7. 23 , 24 , 25. Who shall deliver me from this body of death ; Me , he speaks of himself . 3. That there is redemption out of hell , and that hell paines shall have an end , contrary to the words of Christ Mark . 9. 44. Their worm dieth not , and the fire is not quenched . 4. That good works are not needfull to salvation . When the Scripture saith without holinesse no man shall see God Heb. Heb. 12. 14. You charge us with preaching for hire , saying [ You the Priests divine for mony &c. ] which page is full of such reproaches and slanders . For we preach to convert souls to God , to build up the Church of Christ : and as for our Tithes ( which you call uor hire ) we take them as our inheritance setled upon us by the Laws of God , and the Laws of the land . Who have thought fit that he that serves at the altar should live by the altar , according to that 1 Cor. 9. from the first to the 15. verse . It is your self , and such as you are , that preach for Reward , that live by gifts and bribes ; wherfore you devise false Doctrines , such as will please foolish , corrupt Mens fancies , that put hony in the Sacrifice instead of salt , and sow Pillows under mens Elbows that they may sleep at ease in sin : that tell the wicked they shall live , though God hath said they shall surely die except they repent : that strengthen the hands of evil doers , that they should not return . You , I say , run without sending . Ier. 23. 21. I have not sent these Prophets , yet they ran : that bring in damnable Heresies , and preach aliud Evangelium another Gospel Gal. 1. 6 , 7. not that there was another Gospel , then that which Paul taught ; but because there was , like yours , an invention of their own braines . Good reason therefore have the ministers to warn the peopel to beware of you ; and the Magistrates to shut you up , that you sow not your damnable doctrines among the people ; that they follow not your pernicious wayes , by reason of which the word of truth might be evil spoken of ; but that they may be mindeful of that excellent admonition of the Apostle , 2 Ioh. 7. 8 , 9 , 10 , 11. For many deceivers are entred into the world , who confess not that Iesus is come in the flesh . This is a deceiver & an Anti-Christ . Look to your selves , that we loose not those things which we have wrought , but that we receive a full reward . Whosoever transgresseth , and abideth not in the Doctrine of Christ , hath not God : He that abideth in the Doctrine of Christ , hath both the father and the Son . If there come any unto you , and bring not this Doctrine , receive him not into your house , neither bid him God-speed ; for he that biddeth him God-speed , is partaker of his evil deeds . CHAP. 14. You argue , [ those that do preach the Doctrine of Damnation , telling the people that they are eternally damned are no Gos●el-Ministers , & do preach from an evil spirit ; but Christ did not preach this Doctrine of eternal damnation to any , for he did preach salvation to all men , and the acceptable year of the Lord ] and to prove this you quote . Luk. 4. 18. Iohn 3. 17. To tell you , your Major or Minor is false , or to treat you after the manner of Disputants , is a thing passeth your understanding , therefore I shall answere you thus . Those that preach according to the Commission , Christ gave unto his Disciples to preach at his departure , are Gospel preachers ; but those that preach damnation to the impenitent and unbelievers , as well as Salvation to the penitent and believers , preach according to that Commission , therefore they are Gospel preachers , Mark 16. Go into all the World and preach the Gospel , that is , he that believes and is baptized shall be saved , and he that believeth not shall be damned : is not here damnation to the unbelievers , as there is Salvation for believers ? Are they not commissionated to preach this throughout the World , and did they not faithfully perform it ? Read Rom. 2. 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. where the Apostle pronounceth Glory , Honour , Immortalitie , and Eternal life to every man that worketh good ; but denounceth tribulation and anguish , wrath and judgement , at the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgement of God to the impenitent , that obey not the truth , but obey unrighteousness . Likewise in the 2. Thes. 1. 6 , 7 , 8 , 9. Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompence Tribulation to them that trouble you : and to you who are troubled rest with us , when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with his mightie Angels in flaming fire , taking vengeance on them that know not God , and that obey not the Gospel of our Lord Iesus Christ : who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord , &c. read also 2 Pet. 2. 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. and the whole Epistle of Iude. I hope you will not say now these men were not Gospel-preachers , or that they had not the spirit of God ; for it was after the day of Pentecost , when the cloven tongues descended and sat upon them , Acts 2. 1 , 2 , 3. But let me ask you one question , when Christ gave unto his Disciples the keys of the kingdome of Heaven , wherein did the power of the keys consist ? Was it not in binding as well as in loosing ? You will finde it was , in Iohn 20. 23. You falsely , and impudently say , that [ Christ never preached damnation to any , but Salvation to all . ] Certainly you have read Christs Sermon upon the Mount , and it is most certain you understand it not ; for it is plain , Mat. 5. 21 22 , 23 , 24. and in the 29. It is better that one of thy members perish then that thy whole body should be cast into Hell . Mark 6. 11. It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in that day of judgement , then for that Citie . Likewise read Mat. 23 from the 13. verse to the end of the Chapter , and you shall finde how many woes are pronounced by Christ there , and the greater damnation to Hypocrites , for their holy pretences , verse 14. and the 30. It seems plainly you know not what you say , and care not what you affirm : that you are led by the spirit of falshood and errour , and not by the spirit of truth , who dare thus boldly contradict the truth . But that text of Mat. 23. 14 and 33. quoted by Mr. Sanbroke , I perceive , confounded you , that you know not what to say , or at least said you knew not what , something , nothing to the purpose , which was That Christ was then a fulfilling the Law ] which you your self overthrow at the latter end of this disputation , ( Page 64. ) out of Heb. 13. 8. Iesus Christ , the same yesterday , to day , and for ever . Now if he were the same yesterday , ( as certainly he was ; for he was the lamb slain in Gods decree ) ab origine Mundi ; therefore he had fulfilled yesterday Gods account ; but if it were so , yet it doth not lessen your fault , who have falsely affirmed that Christ preached not damnation to any ; but salvation to all . Not to pass over your playing Legerdemain with the Scriptures , your saying that [ Christ told the Pharisees , that the kingdome of God was to be revealed in them , and which should suddenly come unto them , and that they hearing this , demanded of Christ when the kingdome of Heaven should come , also that Christ answered them , The kingdome of Heaven comes not with observation . ] Now let any one read that Chapter of Woe and damnation to the Pharisees , Mat. 23. and he shall finde there is no such question or answer in that Chapter , nor in that Evangelist , neither is there any thing like it : and therefore you falsifie the Scriptures to make a colourable answer to that which is unanswerable , and what you quote out of the 17. of Luke 20. 21. is spoken upon another occasion , and the answer concerned not the Pharisees , but was directed to the Disciples , verse 22. and he said unto his Disciples , &c. I think there is no man so deluded , except your self , as to think that Christ should tell the Pharisees that the kingdome of Heaven was within them , of whom he had given this Testimony in the words before , that their inside was full of extortion and excess : that they were like unto painted Sepulchers , full of dead mens bones , and of all uncleanness . But you say [ the Kingdome of Heaven was within the Scribes and Pharisees , though yet they knew it not . ] But Christ that knew all things knew them intus & in cute , he knew their conditions , and concluded they were a generation of Vipers , and should not escape the damnation of Hell . You tell us [ our Schools will never teach us this lesson of knowing Christ within us . ] First , you are ignorant what Doctrine the Schools teach , and I therefore can give no account of it , a fools bolt is soon shot ; praised be God , our Schools teach no such doctrine , as you teach , nor any of the Schools of the Prophets ; but the School of Antichrist , where Cerinthus , Marcion , Montanus and Muncer had their learning , and whereof you are a professour . You speak something of another Book of yours , called Truths Testimony . It seems all your Books are like the Egyptian temples , they have a fair and beautiful outside , a splendid Title , but nothing else then rotten within . Mr. Sanbrook tells you he burnt it : and well did he doubtless in so doing : if I should do the like too by this I am treating of : I should do you no wrong : I have not met with a worse printed and published . You question our calling , saying [ I question whether some of you have received this Gospel-commission from Christ yet or no . ] Which calling of ours hath been sufficiently vindicated by many learned and godly Ministers of the Church of England , both against our adversaries the Papists abroad , and also our malicious enemies the sectaries at home : and will be again when any worthy of an answer shall go about to question it . But , because I have undertaken to answer your follies , I will adde something more , in answer to your objections against the Ministers way of preaching the Gospel , though I have done it sufficiently already . You say that [ we have no commission from Christ , because we preach damnation , which is no Gospel-message . ] This , or to this effect is that you have said at the beginning of this Chapter , ( Page 61. ) already answered , but something more may be said concerning two places of Scripture quoted there in the Margent , which you make the ground of your objections . The first is Luke 4. 18. which the Evangelist takes out of Isa. 61. 1. but a place that makes not for you , but is full against you ; for it is not general , but to the poor , to them that are throughly touched with the feeling of their sin , and have their hearts broken with sorrow for their transgressions : to set at libertie them that acknowledge themselves to be in bondage , sold under sin against their wills , as St. Paul did , Rom. 7. 14. and are ready to cry out with him , who shall deliver me from the body of this death . To those that do not acknowledge their condition , and the need they have of a deliverer , Christ came not to send peace , but a sword , Mat. 10. 34. They are in effect the words of Isaiah , to preach the acceptable year of the Lord , and the day of vengeance of our God , &c. he alludes to the deliverance of Israel out of the captivitie of Babylon by Cyrus : for as that was a year of Iubile to the Jews , so it was a year of vengeance to the Caldeans , that held them in Captivitie . The second place Iohn 3. 17. which is fully expounded and answered by our Saviour himself v. 18. 19 He that beleeveth on him is not condemned ; but he that beleeveth not is condemned already because he hath not beleeved on the name of the only , begotten Son of God ; and this is the condemnation , that light is come into the world , and men loved darknesse rather then light , because their deeds were evil . Is not here condemnation preached to unbeleevers , as well as salvation to beleevers , is it not as clear as the light at Noon-day ? [ You quote Col. 1. 6. ] The Gospel which is come unto you , as it is in all the world &c. If we should grant it hath been preached &c. yet it makes nothing for your purpose ; for though it be the power of God unto salvation to all that beleeve , Rom. 1. 16. yet is it not so to the impenitent and unbeleevers ; for unto them it is the power of God to destruction . 2 Cor. 10. 6. CHAP. XV . In this Chapter you talk much of the whore of Babylon her rage , her names of Blasphemy against the truth , her seat , &c. Wherein you set forth your ignorance and manifest your malice , in that you apply that to another which is proper to your self . The whore of Babylon is the Malignant Church , the Corps of the reprobate : the head of which is Satan , and Anti-Christ is his Vice-gerent , she is compared to a Whore in opposition to the Spouse of Christ , who is compared to the Woman Revel 12. The Whore of Babylon is adorned with worldly Ornaments , as Gold , Silver , and Pearl , to difference her from the Church of Christ who is clothed with heavenly : the Sun and the Moon are under her feet , and a Crown of Stars upon her head . The Beast which the Whore rides on is the Roman Empire Dan. 7. 2 - 3. Her seat Babylon , 1 Pet. 5. 13. ( which the Romists themselves will needs have to be Rome , and which is very probable ) as appears in Revel. 17. 18. onely we must remember , that though St. Peter spake then of the time present , the spirit of God intends there , to foretell the condition of that Church to come . She hath in her fore-head the name of Mystery : in her hand is a Golden cup , full of abominations , by the Golden cup is understood the Scriptures , which she turns to abominations by wresting them to her own wicked purposes as you have done , she rages against the truth , and those that maintain it , and shews the effect of her rage by making her self drunk with their blood . Now what is all this to your Opponents , how can you apply any of these things to any particular action of theirs truly ? falsly , I find you do . Their zeale for Gods Glory and for the Love of the truth ( never more abused by any Heretick then your self ) you call rage , their telling you and others the truth , in saying you are a Blasphemer and a Perverter of Scripture , you call railing or reviling : when you may as well say that he is a Railer , that calles a thief , a thief and a murderer by the Name of Murder . Or with what face can you rank your self with the Saints , the Martyrs of Iesus , the Apostles , with Christ himself , when you are ( not wrongfully called , but ) proved a Blasphemer and a seducer ; when you are strongly suspected for inc●ntinency , for you were indicted at Maidstone this Summer Assises for attempting the Chastity of two of your Proselytes with base actions and filthy speeches , the Bills were found , and judgement passed upon them , by the whole Bench , and you were fined accordingly . I should now wonder at your impudence , but that Saint Paul sayes : the devil , when he means to deceive the world , transforms himself into an Angel of Light , and likewise his Ministers , whose end shall be according to their works 2 Cor. 11. 14. 15. Such Saints as you may fitly be compared to Iezebel who called her self a Prophetesse ( Revel. 2. 20 ) that is such an one as was inspired by the spirit of God , and so made God the Author of her blasphemies and lies , seduced the servants of God , and taught them to commit fornication , and eat things sacrificed to Idols . Wherefore God threatens to punish her and her companions except they repent . God give you an heart to repent , and also your followers , ( for you are observed to have few that have in them any thing of Godlinesse ) but such as follow your example , perswading others , and be perswaded themselves , that heaven shall be the reward of the wicked , though the Scripture saith without holinesse no man shall see the Lord . I say , God give you all grace to repent , that you may escape the Vengeance which without repentance will assuredly fall upon you ; for receiving not the love of the truth , and having pleasure in unrighteousnesse 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11 , 12. CHAP. XVI . In this Chapter three things are most considerable , ( not to trace you in every absurdity ) that you speak of , the 1. is [ Gods equal love to all . The 2. is universal redemption ; 3. That this is onely means to keep men from sin . ] The wise man saith , God is a lover of all his Creatures ; yet doth he love Mankinde more then the rest , and therefore he is not called {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} but {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} , not a lover of the Creatures , but a lover of man : now though he love al mankind as appears by his Protecting , and susteining them ; yet it cannot be denied , but he loveth some of mankinde more then the rest , because he hath shewed greater effects of his love to some then he hath to others , in that he hath elected them , effectually called , justified and glorified them ; so that the love he bears to others , whom he hath not elected , called , &c. compared to this may in a manner be called hatred , agreeable to that of Rom. 9. 13 : Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated . Now insomuch as he choseth some and refuses others , as he did Jacob and not Esau , he calleth some and not others , as he did Abraham and none of his kindred , he bestoweth more benefits upon some then upon others , it is apparent his love is not equal , but that he loves some more then others , and therefore let this provoke us to love God more then others , because he hath done more for us , then for others ; to whom much is given , of him much is required . Concerning universal Redemption . I know there be some places of Scripture that do seemingly make for it . As 2 Cor. 5. 19. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself . 1 Tim. 24. Who will have all men to be saved . 1 Iohn 2. 2. He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world . Now mark the Places that are against universal redemption ; and then I will reconcile them . As Matth. 26. 28. & Mark . 14. 24. This is my blood of the new Testament , which is shed for many . Matth. 20. 28. He gave his life a ransom for many . Heb. 9. 28. Christ was once offered to bear the sinnes of many . John 11. 52. ( there it is said that ) Christ should gather in one the Children of God that were scattered abroad ( which are onely his elect for whom he is said to lay down his life ) Iohn 10. 15. I lay down my life for the Sheep , ( not for the Goats . ) Iohn 17. 9. I pray not for the world , but those that thou hast given me . Is the Scripture therefore centrary to scripture ? or the Word against the Word ? no such matter : one short distinction will reconcile all this : which is this , Christ died for all sufficientèr but not efficientèr . His death was of sufficient value to redeem all the world , yea , and many more worlds , if there had been more , but yet it is not effectual for al● , because all do not make use of it : and the reason is because all have not faith 2 Thessalonians 3. 2. You are declaring ( you say ) the gathering together of all men in Christ , and more to this purpose , for which you alledge , or wrest many places of Scripture quoted in your Margent , which I will answer as so many Objections . Out of Heb. 2. 11. For he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one &c. Nihil est Antipho quin male narrando possit depravari ; as we see in Satans allegation Mat. 4. 6. You take that which you think is ( though indeed it is not ) for your purpose , and leave out that which is against you . Read the verse before ; For it became him for whom are all things , and by whom are all things , in bringing many Sons unto glory , to make the Captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings . Then follows , For he that sanctifieth &c. so you see it is , Many sonns , not all , this makes against you . 2. Eph. 1. 10. That he might gather together in one all things in Christ , which are in heaven and which are on earth , even in him . I pray read the verse following , which hath a necessary dependance , the words are these . In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being predestinated according to the purpose of him , who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will Now , how doth this prove your return of all men ? Doth he not speak of those , that he predestinated to the Adoption of children ? As appears more fully out of the 4. and 5. verses , and who are they ? Those whom he had chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World . The Apostles purpose in all this , is to prove the gathering together the elect , both of the Jews and Gentiles into one body by the preaching of the Gospel , as appears more plainly in Ephe. 2. from the 11. verse unto the end of that Chapter . And also of the uniting of the Church-militant , with the Church-triumphant , under the same head Jesus , Heb. 12. 22 , 23 , 24. Now what doth this make for the proving that Reprobates , Infidels , Impenitent persons : yea , the Divels and the damned shall be brought , home to Christ ? Are they predestinated to be the sons of God ? Were they elected before the foundation of the World ? For shame ( if not for love of your own soul ) rectifie your judgement , if you have not lost your understanding in the thick darkness of errour . Also the same Apostle tells us , Ephes. 4. 18 , 19. of a people that have their understandings darkned , and strangers from the life of God , and in the fifth Chapter verse 5. which I cannot pass over , that no whormonger , nor unclean person , nor covetous man , who is an Idolater , hath any inheritance in the Kingdome of Christ , and of God , except they repent , and we know that there are too many with the deaf Adder stop their ears , and refuse to hear the voice of the charmer , Psal. 58. 4 , 5. Eze. 34. 16. I will seek that which was lost , and bring again that which was driven away , and will bind-up that which was broken , and strengthen that which was sick , &c. Mark I pray ; what is this , to prove [ the gathering together of all men in Christ to be brought home to the father ] for which you quote it ? For observe what follows in the very same Verse ; But I will destroy the fat and the strong , and will feed them with judgement : but as for you O my flock , thus saith the Lord God , behold , I judge between Cattel and Cattel , between the Rams and the he-Goats : which is point-blank against you , unless you could prove the Reprobates to be the Sheep of Christ , which doubtless you are ready enough to hold . Jerem. 33. 6. Behold I will bring it health and cure , and I will cure them , and I will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth . To whom is this spoken ? to Babylon of the Caldeans , or to spiritual Babylon , the corps of the Reprobate ? Do not the words following shew that it is spoken to Judah and Jerusalem , the Church of God ? observe the words . I will cause the captivitie of Judah , and of Israel to return , and build them as at the first , &c. I see you are much necessitated ; when you bring those promises , that God makes unto the house of David , Verse 21. to prove the salvation of the reprobate . Rom. 5. 18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgement came upon all men to condemnation : even so by the righteousness of one , the free gift came upon all men unto Justification of life . Read the verse following . For as by one mans disobedience many were made sinners : so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous ; the purpose of the Apostle is to shew ; that as Adam by his disobedience destroyed all his Posteritie : so Christ by his obedience saved all his seed , that is , all that were the seed of Abraham , not according the flesh , but according to the Spirit , Rom. 9 7 , 8. Neither because they are the seed of Abraham , are they all children : but in Isaac shall thy seed be blessed , that is , they which are the children of the flesh , these are not the children of God : but the children of the promise are counted for the seed . 1 Cor. 15. 22. As in Adam all die , so in Christ shall all be made alive . What the Apostle brings here to prove the Resurrection of the body : you urge to prove the Resurrection of the soul : a goodly argument . But suppose we grant it , yet will not the Text help you at all ; for the genuine sense of it must be this , as all that were in Adam died : so all that are in Christ are made alive . Luke 19. 10. For the son of man is come to seek , and to save that which was lost . It is true ; but it is meant , those that know and acknowledge themselves to be lost , ( as the Prodigal did ) that say in themselves , I will go to my father and say unto him , father I have sinned , &c. Luke 15. Christ prayed for his enemies that had imbrued their hands in his blood , because they did it out of ignorance , Luke 23. 34. Father forgive them for they know not what they do . It is true he did , and his prayers were heard , for some of them were converted by St. Peters Sermon , as appeareth out of Acts 2. but yet it doth not follow that he prayed for the Reprobate : he teacheth us the contrary , where he sayeth , I pray not for the World , but for them that thou hast given me out of the world . 1 John 2. 1 , 2. If any sin , we have an Advocate with the father Jesus Christ the righteous , who is the Propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole World . I answer , as at the beginning , that he is a propitiation sufficient for the sins of the whole World , but not efficient , because all do not believe . 1. Tim. 2. 4. Who will have all men to be saved , and come to the knowledge of the truth . Which must not be understood of his secret will , but of his revealed , according to which he would have them to be saved , if they repent and believe the Gospel , otherwi●e they cannot expect Salvation , and this is agreeable to that doctrine , which Christ commanded his Disciples to preach , Mark 16. 16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved ; but he that believeth not shall be damned . Others answer , that the Apostle speaks not de singulis generum sed de generibus singulorum , that is , of all sorts and conditions of men , as appears by the words going before . But here , I wonder , to what purpose you bring in the History of the ten Lepers , and that in such a fashion , that if you did not help it with a lame exposition , in the latter end of your book ( Article 21. ) a man would judge that you mean Christ was one of them ? I wonder , I say , to what purpose : you will say , to prove that all men shall be saved , for this is the subject of the whole Chapter ; then the summe of the argument must be this , ( ten Lepers were cured by Christ , and but one of them returned to give thanks , therefore all shall be saved ) a goodly conclusion . But had you any ingenuity or love to truth , you would have argued ( as any School-boy would have done ) thus [ ten Lepers were healed by Christ , and but one of them returned to give thanks , therefore but one of them shall be saved , is not this the most probable of the two ? Seeing Christ himself hath taught us ; that few are they that shall be saved , Mat. 7. 14. Lastly , you say [ that this Doctrine of the love of God to all men , is the only means to keep them from sin . ] This is a way , both disagreeable to the word , and will of God , and also to reason . That it is to the word of God , I have already sufficiently proved , yet I will adde more . Jude 22 , 23. And of some have compassion making a difference : and others save with fear , pulling them out of the fire . Those that sin , either out of weakness of judgement , or want of strength are to be gently dealt with ; but those that sin out of wilfulness are sharply to be reproved , Titus 1. 13. Thus Peter did Simon Magus Acts 8. 20. 21 , 22 , 23. or as Paul did Elymas the sorcerer , Acts 13. 10 , 11. when wounds are corrupted and stink , they ought first to be cleansed , before we pour in Balm , otherwise we shall heal them deceitfully , like false Prophets ( such as your self is ) Jerem. 6. 14. They have healed the hurt of the Daughter of my people slightly , saying , peace , peace , when there is no peace . It is also disagreeable to reason : suppose a man to have two sons , on which he hath a large Patrimony to bestow : and being committed to the care of a Tutor , one of them proves a Prodigal ( I mean not such a Prodigal , as is returned from his evil wayes , but ) an incorrigible one , that is , in the full career of Vice ; his Tutor intending ( as in duty bound ) to reclaim him , tells him his father beareth a great deal of love towards him , and ( notwithstanding his evil courses ) cannot , will not disinherit him , and much more to this purpose : will any one think , that this is the best and most rational course to reclaim him ? Surely , no , but rather a means to increase his licentiousness : a good Tutor will rather with a severe and contracted brow command him to reform , telling him he understands his fathers Will is such , that if he lead such an extravagant and exorbitant course of life , he must expect to be disinherited . Likewise a man hath a bad servant and a good ; one increaseth his Talent ; the other , that is the bad servant , hideth his in the ground , shall he notwithstanding his unprofitableness be soothed up , and assured , that at his Masters comming , he shall be rewarded with a well done , good and faithful servant , thou hast been faithful over a few things , I will make thee Ruler over many things : enter thou into thy Masters joy ? the Scripture saith no , and reason too can say no otherwise , I suppose your learning never amounted to the understanding of the old Verses . Oderunt peccare boni , virtutis amore ; Oderunt peccare mali , formidine poenae . Good men , for love of goodness , bad for fear Of punishment , do sinful acts forbear . To conclude this Chapter , this doctrine of yours is the only means for you to get Proselytes , and to increase the kingdome of darkness , and draw many unto damnation . CHAP. XVII . Here you quarrel with the Ministers , for complaining to the Magistrates for suffering you to preach without Orders ( and you are so bold as to say ) their duty is not to forbid any , but to reprove such complainers ; these are the contents of the Chapter . I pray what think you of those two examples in Rev. 2. the one of Pergamos for suffering among them , those that maintained the Doctrine of Balaam , and of the Nicolaitans . The other of the Church of Thyatira , for suffering the woman Iesebel , which called her self a Prophetess , to teach , and seduce the servants of God . Though the civil Magistrate may not assume to himself the Administration of the word and Sacraments ; or the power of the Keys , 2 Chron. 26. 18. Mat. 18. 17. yet are they to preserve peace and quietness , 1 Tim. 2. 2. to take the foxes that spoil the Vines , Cant. 2. 15. to punish false teachers and seducers , Deut. 13. and not to suffer such brats of Babylon to ride upon their shoulders . You vilifie the divine function of the Ministery , and call it [ a Trade of preaching . ] But we regard not the reproaches of such fellows as you are , who are neither Prophets , nor the sons of Prophets ; but ▪ brought up to feed Cattel , as those your predecessours were , Zach. 13. 5. Our comfort is , the Holy Ghost speaks honourably of it ; calling us the Embassadors of Christ , 2 Cor. 5. 20. and the Ministers of Christ , and Stewards of the Mysteries of God , 1 Cor. 4. 1. nay , Angels ( though not by nature , yet ) by office ; such are the terms of Gods spirit , in his Epistle to the seven Churches of Asia . I hope I need not ask pardon , if I magnifie mine office , Rom. 11. 13. ) when such intruders labour all they can to pull it down . For our calling , we have not taken it up of our selves , ( as did the sons of Sceva , Acts 19. ) but from Christ , though not immediately , yet successively , and thus I prove it . Christ the son of God , the promised Messias , was sent of his father to be the Minister of the Reconciliation ; and therefore he is called the Bishop of our souls , 1 Pet. 2. 25. The Angel of the Covenant , Mal. 3. 1. The High Priest , Heb. 5. 4. The Minister of the sanctuary , Heb. 8. 2. Now as he was sent by the father , so did he send others : first he chose his Disciples , instructed them , and sent them out to preach unto the Jews : afterwards being to leave them , he sent them unto all the World , Mark 16. 15. and that they might be the better able to do it , he gave them power from above , Acts 2. 1 , 2. &c. Now of these some are Ministers of the Circumcision , and some of the uncircumcision , Gal. 2. 7. These ordained Presbyters in every Church , Acts 14. 23. and when they were to depart , they left Titus in Creet , Tit. 1. 5. Timothy in Ephesus , 1 Tim. 1. 3. and gave them a charge to provide for succession , 2 Tim. 2. 2. the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses , the same commit thou to faithful men , who shall be able to teach others also . Likewise , what they did in Creet and Ephesus , they did in others places , as appears by the Testimony of Clement , the Scholar of Paul mentioned Philip . 4. 3. who in his divine Epistle testifies , that the Apostles every where ordaines the first fruits of prime beleevers , for Bishops and Deacons . Such a calling then there was , and not arbitrary , men are not to run without sending , as false Prophets use to do Jer. 23. 21. I have not sent these Prophets , yet they ran : I have not spoken unto them , yet they Prophesied , and yet a calling is pretended , but it is such a one as had the priest of Micah Jud. 17. or those Priests of Jeroboam . 1 Kin. 12. 31. Those that are truely called , are first to be tried , and then ordained , their trial is to approve their gifts , and their ordination to give them power , without which no man ought to preach . Rom. 10. 15. Heb. 5. 4. You , and others ( not much unlike you ) pretend highly to gifts , ( it were well if those you have were imployed to the best advantage ) the emptyest Ears of corn do ever carry themselves highest . Phaeton though he was able to drive the Chariot of the Sun , as the story goes ; but by his unskilfulnesse set the world on fire , such as you are , are very much concerned in the Moral of it , being instruments onely fit to set on fire Church and State , as sad experience tells us . If there were any such gifts really in you , as is pretended , why is there not an application to those that are impowred by God in the Church , to try the gifts and manners of men , so that if there were such a qualification as is required in you , ye might not want ordination . It cannot be denied , that ever there were more Gifts , then were powred on the Christians in the primitive times ; and yet those that thought themselves fit for the function were content to submit themselves to examination , and take ordination from them that had power , as may be collected out of 1 Tim. 3. 10. Let them first be proved &c. And if men like not of this , or be not liked and approved , let them exercise their gifts within their calling : teaching and instructing their families , and edifying one another , Tit. 2 Iude 20. But let them not usurp the Office of the Ministry lest it happen unto them as to Vzzah ( 2 Sam : 6. 6 , 7. ) for touching the Ark ; which none might touch but the priests Num. 4 ▪ 15. Lastly , you object the example of Eldad and Medad Num. 11. ] you are hard put to it , when you object the calling of the Magistrate to prove the calling of the Ministers ; had you ever been in the Schools they would have told you your arguments must be ad idem . Again , these men prophesied not without a calling ; for though they were not at the Tabernacle , yet they were of those that were written by Moses , and presented unto the Lord , and therefore the Lord put his spirit upon them , Verse 26. Now I pray , what Moses hath written your name and presented it unto the Lord . Besides , we must not gather general Rules from extraordinary examples . Because Deborah and Huldah prophesied , therefore shall any infer that Women ougth to teach in the Church . Doth not the Apostle teach the contrary 1 Cor. 14. 34. 1 Tim. 2. 12 ? CHAP. 18. The subject of this Chapter is Original sin ; You speake much in the commendation of young children , which were commendable in you , were it not done for by-ends , you set them forth in their most beautiful Characters , but ( Latet anguis in Herba ) you would shroud an old Pelagian Heresy under them . You magnifie their condition , as being free from actual sin , but your purpose in it is to denie Originall Sin . You say [ They are not born in sin ] First , therefore I will shew what Original sin is , and that it is in all men by Nature , and then answer your Cavills . For the better understanding of it , we must know there were in Adam before his fall three things . 1. The substance of his body and soul , 2. The faculties , and 3. The qualities of them , that is to say , the image of God consisting in a conformity of all his wi●l and affections and powers to Gods will . Now when Adam sinned , he did not lose the substance or faculties of his soul and body , but the conformity of his will and Affections and powers to Gods will , and consequently in stead of that comes want of Original righteousnesse , and a pronesse to sin and wickednesse . Now that this is in all mankinde by nature appears in Psa. 51 , 5. behold I was shapen in iniquity , and in sin did my mother conceive me . Eph. 2. 3. We are all by nature the children of wrath . Gen. 6. 5. Again , the Circumcision of infants under the Law proves something there was in the soul that ought to be cut away which God promised to do Deut. 30. 6. Likewise the Baptisme of Infants doth shew there is something unclean , that hath need of cleansing ; which God hath promised to do Iohn 3. 5. Titus 3. 5. Ephesians 5. 26 , 27. The death of infants doth confirm it ; who die not ex necessitate naturae but ex merito peccati , not out of the necessity of nature , but for the punishment of Original sin , for the wages of sin is death , or death is the wages of sin Rom. 6. 23. now it cannot be meant of actual sin , and therefore it must be for Original sin . Which is cleer out of Rom. 5. 12 , 18. Your argument ab injusto , that it is an hard thing to say that thousands are now in hell for Original sinne . Who art thou that disputest with God Rom. 9. 20 ? if they be the children of Christian Parents , there is hope of mercy , though they die without the Sacrament of Baptisme ; because they are born within the Covenant . If they be the children of Infidels , we may remember the book of life , which no man knows but God ; therefore we may suspend our judgement therein . So it is we know , whosoever is not found written in the Book of life shall be cast into the Lake of fire . Rev. 20. 15. But a strange thing it is , that this should be a hard saying to you ( if any man said so ) who deny the perpetuity of Hell fire . You object Mark 10. 13. And they brought young Children to him that he should touch them . This place makes against you : it shews there was somthing in them , that was to be healed , or else they would not have brought them to Christ , to be touched , you confesse it is brought to prove the Baptisme of Infants , and so it is , not without reason : for if they be born of beleeving parents as those were ( otherwise they would not have brought them to Christ to be touched and blessed ) then have they as good right to the Sacrament of Baptisme , as the Children under the Law had to the Sacrament of Circumcision , in regard the promise was made to Abraham and to his seed , and to all that are afar of , even as many as the Lord our God shall call Acts. 2. 39. You object Matth. 18. 2 ( with an absurd exposition of it ) For his Disciples striving for superiority : his answer related particularly to their ambition : that they should not strive for Superiority ; but be converted and become humble , otherwise they should not enter into the kingdom of Heaven , but let me ask you , what then should become of them ? you should have done well to have expounded that also , but it was not for your purpose . Also the conference of Christ and Nicodemus Iohn 3. 4. This makes not on your side ; doth not Christ plainly tell him , except a man be born again of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God ? He gives a reason for it in the next Verse , That which is born of flesh is flesh &c. Lastly , you contradict your self fouly in this Chapter , [ you say , you denie not the Baptizing of Children with water to them that are free to do it ] and immediately you call Baptisme Iohns administration of water ( and say ) it was onely to last Iohns time , and then to be made void . CHAP. XIX . It is the saying of the Apostle 2 Tim. 3. 13. That evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse , deceiving and being deceived : Here we have it verified in you ; for here you are grown to such to such an height of impudence that you dare out-face a truth as apparent as the light at noon-day . You say We have no ground from the Lord Iesus Christ by precept , nor example , to Baptize with water . ] What say you to that of Ioh. 3. 5. ( before mentioned ) where our Saviour tells Nicodemus , that except a man be born of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdome of God . Likewise that of our Saviour himself Mat. 28. 19. Go therefore and teach all Nations , Baptizing them in the name of the Father , Son , and holy Ghost . Have we not examples for it also ? read Iohn 4. 1 , 2. Again , can you answer to that of the Eunuch Acts 8. 36. And as they went on their way , they came to a certain water ; and the Eunuch said , see , here is water , what doth hinder me to be Baptised ? and they went both down into the water , both Philip and the eunuch and he Batised him v. 38. The very name or signification of the word Baptisme from {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} may confute you : moreover water is one of the parts of the Sacrament . Is it not called the Laver of Regeneration : Titus 3. 5. wherein Christ doth wash and cleanse his Church , 1 Cor. 6. 11. and such were some of you ; but ye are washed , &c. Eph. 5. 26. that he might sanctifie and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word . But to help the matter you make it a thing of indifferency . And say [ I deny it none whose tender conscience doth desire it ] using that of St. Paul spoken of things indifferent . 1 Cor. 9. 22. When it is a thing so far from being indifferent , and so necessary , that the wilful neglect , and contempt thereof is a damnable sin , Iohn 15. 22. Gen. 17. 14. yet I doubt not upon deep repentance God will forgive it . Read Bern. Epist. 77. The next thing to be taken notice of is , that you return to your former Vomit , which you cast up in the 14th . Chapter , and which you again lick up in the second Article towards the end of your Book . You say [ God will destroy mans sins , and iniquities , but not man . ] And to make people believe this , you run through a great many passages of Scripture , as if they made for you , when in truth they , and the whole current of the Word of God are against it . I will recite a few amongst many , Psal. 5. 6. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing , and the Lord abhors both the bloody and deceitful man , ( not the lies and deceits of men only , but them that speak lies and work deceit , such as your self , without repentance , which God of his mercy give you . ) Psal. 11. 6 , 7. Vpon the ungodly he shall rain snares , fire , and Brimstone , storms and tempests : this shall be the portion of the wicked , ( upon the ungodly the Psalmist sayes , speaking of their persons , not of sins . ) Psal 9. 17. The wicked shall be turned into Hell , and all the Nations that forget God ; ( wicked people and Nations , not wickedness and national sins only . ) And this is verified in the destruction of the old world , 1 Pet. 3. 20. In Corah and his company , Num. 16. 33. In Iudas the son of Perdition , Iohn 17. 12. who is said to go to his place , Acts 1. 25. whither all ungodly men shall go , without repentance , in the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men , 2 Pet. 3. 7. ( he doth not say in the day of perdition of their sins , ) but of themselves . Read Iude Verse 15. 2 Thes. 1. 7 , 8 , 9. many more places I could adde to the same purpose ; but that you have done it to my hand , as that in Psal. 21. 8 , 9. Thine hand shall finde out all thine enemies , thy right hand shall finde out those that hate thee : thou shalt make them as a fiery Oven , in the time of thine anger , the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath , and the fire shall devoure them . Where it is manifest , the Prophet speaks of Persons not of sins ; of substances , not of accidents that do adhere to subjects : as for your idle shift , that he means the Bryars and thorns in them ; it is false , God doth not consume the Bryars and Thorns , as you call them in Impenitent sinners , but punishes them and their Bryars and Thorns together , and none shall quench them . Isa. 1. 32. the soul that sinneth shall die , Eze. 18. 20. The Lord will plead the cause of the poor , and spoil the souls of those that spoiled them . Pro. 22. 23. as for that place you alledge out of 1 Cor. 3. 15. it is expounded and fully answered before , in my answer to your third Chapter Page 18. Again , you object that of Iacob and Esau . Iacob have I loved , and Esau have I hated : a place so fully against you , that were you not hardned , it were sufficient to convert you . They were the sons of Isaac by Rehecca , Gen. 25. 26 , 27 , 28. where you may read the History at large , of whom St. Paul says , Rom. 9. 11 , 12. They being not yet born , neither having done good or evil : it was said unto her , the elder shall serve the younger , as it is writtten , Jacob have I loved , but Esau have I hated ; therefore he means not Esau's sins . But here you fall to your old shift of Allegorizing the Scriptures , but very unhandsomely , that place of Obad. 17 , 18 , 21. ( quoted in your Margent ( Page 77. ) spoils your Allegory , the words are these . Vpen Mount Sion shall be deliverance , and there shall be holiness , and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions : and the house of Iacob shall be a fire , and the house of Joseph a flame , and the house of Esau for Stubble , and they shall kindle in them , and devour them , and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau ; for the Lord hath spoken it . Here God threatens to destroy the house of Esau , and to establish his Church , the house of Jacob ; they should dwell in their possessions , he would destroy Esau by the house of Iacob : Iacob should be to them like a fire , and they should be like stubble : which was verify'd in Mac. 2. 10. You object Isa. 27. 4 , 9. Fury is not in me : who would set the Briars , and Thorns against me in battel ? I would go through them , I would burn them together . The sense of which words is this ; fury is not in me to destroy the Vineyard ( read the three Verses before ) but fury is in me to destroy the Adversaries of it ; though they set themselves in battel against me , like Bryars and Thorns ; yet could I go through them , and burn them together . The purpose of the Prophet here is to foretel the destruction of Leviathan , that crooked Serpent , take it either for the Type or Antitype , for the Assyrian , or Satan ; and in that day shall the Church sing a song of Triumph , Verse 2 , 3. Secondly , verse 9. by this , shall the iniquitie of Jacob be purged , by what ? by their repentance ; whereof he sets down the fruits , which should shew themselves in the reformation from Idolatrie , when he should overthrow the Altars , and Groves of their images , Now what is all this , to prove ( as you would have it ) the purging away of in iniquity form Esau , from the wicked and reprobate . 1. Here is a destruction of Satan and the wicked threatned . 2 A song of Triumph for the execusion of Gods judgments . 3. A promise to spare the house of Jacob because they repent . And therefore your Allorizing is absurd and erroneous most repugnant to the meaning of the Prophet in this Chapter , whose intention is to shew , that God will destroy the wicked , who are but as briers and thorns , when they set themselves in battle against him : he will break through them and consume them , as fire doth wood . Here that place in Isa. 6. 6 , 7. is also brought to garnish your errour , and in this manner . God caused a Seraphim with a coal from the Alter to touch the mouth of the Prophet , to take his iniquity away ( whom he was about to send on his message , and fit for his calling ) therefore God will purge lips , and take away the iniquity of the reprobate and false Prophets . A goodly conclusion , is it not ? it seems plainly your lips have not been touched with such a coal ; that you utter such abominable falsities , and so abuse the Scriptures . You reach in Mal. 3. 3. to maintain the same errour ; but to what purpose , let the world judge . The Prophet there shews , that when Christ should come : he should refine his silver , that is , his Church the sons of Levi the purest of his Silver ; for even they stood in need of purifying : now can the reprobate be called the purest of his silver ? your argument deserves to be hist at rather then answered . Read the 5. verse following , and there you shal finde that Christ takes another course with them , where it is said I will come neer to you to judgement , I will be a swift witnesse against the sorcerers , against adulterers , against the falseswearers &c. So you may see it is against the persons , not against their sins , agreeable is that in 2 Pet. 2. 1 , 2 , 3. &c. Your last Proofe is Reve. 15. 8. And the Temple was filled with smoke &c. I will first shew the true meaning of the place , and then observe the unfitnesse of your Allegory . The Spirit of God in the 14. Chapter foretells the day of judgement ( verse 19 , 20. ) but before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord , he signifies several horrible judgements that should fall upon the kingdom of Anti-Christ Chap. 16. Now that they might know these judgements came not by chance , he shews from whence they came , and that was from the Temple of God , from above , ver. 5. which Temple was filled with smoke , which signifies the glory of God , as in 1 Kin. 8. 10 , 11. 1. He doth it to admonish us , that we pry not too narrowly into Gods judgements , for they are incomprehensible ; but to wait untill the day when all secrets shall be made manifest 1 Cor. 4. 5. Let us See now what your Allegory can deduce from this . Because God , before the day of judgement , will send seven fearful Plagues from above upon the earth , that is , upon the followers of Anti-Christ , the men which have the mark of the beast , and wors●ip his image ( Rev. 16. 1 , 2. ) on the wicked and such as shed the blood of the Saints ( ver. 6. ) therefore will he not destroy any man ( not the impenitent unbeleeving Reprobate excepted ) ; for this that you indevour to assert in this Chapter , and now consider what a conclusion you have made , and how your Allegory is vanished . CHAP. 20. Page 78. In this Chapter you tax the Magistrates and ministers for illegal proceedings against you : I know it is the Custome of such companions as you , to be the first accusers , that thereby they may seem to be innocent . I am a stranger to their proceedings against you , but onely by the relation of them ; yet not so much to some of the persons , but that I know them to be men of that integrity , that they would not wrong you , as the event will questionlesse make manifest . And whereas you say you are charged for being a Blasphemer , it is evident you are so , and therefore cannot justly complain of any injustice done you in that particular ; for any Good Christian that reads your book , will assuredly condemn you of Blasphemy ; because you make God the Author of your lies ; wresting and perverting the Scriptures to serve your wicked purposes . For your confidence in boasting ( that you are clear and innocent in your own spirit ) it moves me not , nor any man els that hath heard and read of the practices of the devil ; For we know there is a spiritual witchcraft , and Satan doth delude the phancies of Hereticks , as well as of Witches : Gal. 3. 1. making them beleeve they are , what they are not : hence it came to passe , that many false Christs , false Prophets , and false Apostles ; when they were nothing else but devils in Samuels mantle . I remember two notable examples I have read of to this purpose , the one of old , the other of late , that of old is in Eusebius lib. 5. Cap. 14. of Montanus the Heretick , who being strongly deluded by the Spirit of errour , uttered strange Doctrines contrary to the truth , and yet boasted that he had the spirit , and the gift of Prophesie , as also did his two trulls calling themselves Prophetesses , when they were deluded by the foul spirit , as appeared by their desperate ends ; for Judas like they became their own Executioners . The second example shall be that of wicked Hacket , Copping and Arthington , in the reign of Queen Elizabeth 1591. This wicked impostor gave out he was extraordinarily annointed with the Holy Ghost , and sent forth Coppinger and Arthington his seduced Varlets , under the name of two Prophets , mercy and judgement , to preach him up in the City of London , to tell the people that Christ was come with his fan in his hand to judge the earth ; and that he lodged at Walkers house neer Broken-wharf , and if they would not beleeve it , let them come and see it , and kill him if they can : these accursed Hereticks lived and died in their damnable error , Hacket was hanged , drawn and quartered , and his two false prophts died , the one in the Counter , the other in Bride-well ; a just judgement of God on such Blasphemers , are not here strong delusions , who would not wonder at this ? if he did not know the wiles of Satan , in deluding the mindes of such as God hath given up into his hands , for your contempt of the truths , St. Paul 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. I do not therefore wonder at your confidence , but I pitty your blindnesse , your are deadly sick , and not feel your disease , struck with the sting of the Serpent , yet do not feel your pain , but die singing . I shall therefore desire God , if it be his will , to give yo a sight and feeling of your own miserable condition , and deliver you out of the snare of the Devil , who hath taken you captive and holds you fast , making you an unhappy instrument to deceive your self , and to seduce others . I shall desire all good Christians to avoid your society , that so you may be ashamed , and they not infected with your damnable errours , for your words do fret like a cancer . 2 Tim. 2. 17. I shall then conclude with the words of St. Paul Rom. 16. 17 , 18. and Tit. 9. 3 , 10 , 11. Par enim est ut nos qui sumus Christiani omnes &c. For it behoveth us that are Christians , to eschew all such as open their mouthes against Christ , and such as are alienated in minde from him , as enemies of God and rotten sheep , corrupting the sense of mans minde &c. as Alexander Epist. Alex , Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 9. FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A42401e-500 Nec fonte labra prolui caballino , nec in bicipiti somniasse Parnasso memini , ut fic repentè Poeta redirem . Auli Persii prologo . * Moriae Encomium . Qui Bavium non odit amat tua Carmina Maevi Hor. Parturiunt Montes nascitur ridiculus Mus. Deut. 4. 19. * Eze. 22. 28. * 2 Cor. 11. 15. Notes for div A42401e-2610 〈◊〉 23. Cap. 2. Page 7. 8. Page 8. Chap. 3. Page 11. Page 11. Page 15. Page 16. 17. 2 Cor. 3. 21● Page 8. Page 9. Page 18. 2 Thes. 2. 10 , 11 , 12. Page 8. Page 23. Page 22. Page 23. 1 Tim. 3. 16. Page 24. Page 21. Page 32. Page 33. Page 34. Page 35. Page 36. Page 37. Page 3● . Page 37. 38. Page 38. Page 33. Page 39. ● Thes. 4. 14. Page 41 Page 42. John 1. 18. Page 41 , 42. Page 43. Page 44. Page 45. Page 45 Page 45 , 46. Jam. ● . 2. * Rev. 12. 17. * Verse 9. Page 50. line 10. Page . 50. Page 51. Page 51. ● Page 51. ● Page 52. Page 53. Col. 1. 12 , 13. Page 55. Ibid. Page 58. Page 59. Page 61. Page 61. vid. Mat. 6. 6. & 7. 19. Page 61. Page 61. Page 62. Page ibid. Page 63. Page 63. Page 63. Rev. 17. 18. Page 68. Wisd. 11. 24. Heb. 4. 2 , 3. Object . 1. Teren. Obj. 2. Object . 3. Object . 4 Object . 5. Object . 6. Object . 7. Object . 8. John 17. 9. Object . 9. Object . 10. Page 68. Page 68. Gal. 6. 1. Mat. 25. 21. Page 71. Page 71. Page 71. Page 73. Page . 72. Page . 73. Page 72. Page 72. Page 73. Page 76. Page 76. Read Pro. 16. 4. Hab. 1. 12. Rom. 9. 12. Iud. 1. 4. Heb. 1. 12. Exod. 38. 32. Rev. 7. 8. 80 20. 15. Page 76. ●al. 1. 2. Page 77. Page 79. 
A34470	----	A blow at the serpent; or a gentle answer from Madiston prison to appease wrath advancing it self against truth and peace at Rochester. Together with the work of four daies disputes, in the Cathedral of Rochester, in the Countie of Kent, betweene several ministers, and Richard Coppin, preacher there, to whom very many people frequentlie came to hear, and much rejoyced at the way of truth and peace he preached, at the same whereof the ministers in those parts began to ring in their pulpits, saying, this man blasphemeth, ... Whereupon arose the disputes, at which were some magistrates, some officers, and souldiers, peaceable and well-minded, and very many people from all parts adjacent, before whom the truth was confirm'd and maintained. The whole matter written by the hearers, on both sides. Published for the confirmation and comfort of all such as receive the truth in the love of it. By Richard Coppin, now in Maidston Prison for the witness of Jesus. Twenty five articles since brought against him by the ministers, as blasphemie, and his answers to them, how he was Coppin, Richard, fl. 1646-1659. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A34470 of text R215454 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing C6094). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 261 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 57 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A34470 Wing C6094 ESTC R215454 99827325 99827325 31743 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A34470) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 31743) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1864:2) A blow at the serpent; or a gentle answer from Madiston prison to appease wrath advancing it self against truth and peace at Rochester. Together with the work of four daies disputes, in the Cathedral of Rochester, in the Countie of Kent, betweene several ministers, and Richard Coppin, preacher there, to whom very many people frequentlie came to hear, and much rejoyced at the way of truth and peace he preached, at the same whereof the ministers in those parts began to ring in their pulpits, saying, this man blasphemeth, ... Whereupon arose the disputes, at which were some magistrates, some officers, and souldiers, peaceable and well-minded, and very many people from all parts adjacent, before whom the truth was confirm'd and maintained. The whole matter written by the hearers, on both sides. Published for the confirmation and comfort of all such as receive the truth in the love of it. By Richard Coppin, now in Maidston Prison for the witness of Jesus. Twenty five articles since brought against him by the ministers, as blasphemie, and his answers to them, how he was Coppin, Richard, fl. 1646-1659. [8], 86, 12, [2] p. printed by Philip Wattleworth, and are to be sold by William Larnar at the Black-moor neer Fleet-Bridge, London : 1656. "The twenty five articles, called blasphemy, brought against Richard Coppin by the Ministers of Kent, .. " has caption title, separate pagination and register. Running title reads: The triumphing of truth, over the enemies and aspersers thereof. Reproduction of the original in the Christ Church Library, Oxford. eng Blasphemy -- Early works to 1800. Universalism -- Early works to 1800. A34470 R215454 (Wing C6094). civilwar no A blow at the serpent; or a gentle answer from Madiston prison to appease wrath, advancing it self against truth and peace at Rochester. Tog Coppin, Richard 1656 49896 99 0 0 0 1 0 22 C The rate of 22 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-01 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-01 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-02 Jonathan Blaney Sampled and proofread 2007-02 Jonathan Blaney Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A BLOW at the SERPENT ; OR A GENTLE ANSWER FROM Maidston Prison to appease WRATH , Advancing it self against Truth and Peace at ROCHESTER . Together with the work of four daies DISPUTES , in the Cathedral of Rochester , in the Countie of Kent , betweene several Ministers , and Richard Coppin , Preacher there , to whom very many people frequentlie came to hear , and much rejoyced at the way of Truth and Peace he Preached , at the fame whereof the Ministers in those parts began to ring in their Pulpits , saying , This man Blasphemeth , to deter their Parishioners from hearing him . Whereupon arose the Disputes , at which were some Magistrates , some Officers , and Souldiers , peaceable and well-minded , and very many people from all parts adjacent , before whom the truth was confirm'd and maintained . The whole matter written by the Hearers , on both sides . Published for the confirmation and comfort of all such as receive the TRUTH in the love of it . By Richard Coppin , now in Maidston Prison for the Witness of Jesus . Twenty five Articles since brought against him by the Ministers , as Blasphemie , and his Answers to them , how he was committed without Examination , and by whom . Rev. 2. 10. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer ; for behold , the Devil shall cast some of you into Prison , that ye may be tryed , and you shall have tribulation , but be thou faithful unto death , and I will give thee a Crown of life . London , Printed by Philip Wattleworth , and are to be sold by William Larnar at the Black-moor neer Fleet-Bridge , 1656. The Epistle to the Reader . Friends and Brethren , BE it known to you all that know me , and can in any measure witnesse with me the hidden mystery of God , and of the Father , and of Christ , which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory , how that according to the measure received , I have been faithful in the acknowledgment of this mystery , whereby your hearts might be comforted , and you knit together in love , unto a full assurance of the understanding of this mystery in your selves , an 〈…〉 discover and lay open to you the loose , sandy , and rotten foundations , and buildings of all mens pretended Religions ; in forme , and not in power , as things below Jesus Christ , to have an end , which hath beene my work in the Lord , and to make knowne that Rock , the Lord Jesus , as the true sound and unmoveable foundation of our Religion , and undefiled , laid by God the Father from all eternity , as that which will stand and indure for all men to rest upon , walk in , and be saved by , which things to declare , I have not been partial in , towards God , nor towards man , but have given to each one his due , both as they are one , and as they are distinguisht , that is , first for God , as God to be all in all in every thing , to every creature of mankind manifest in due time , as to himself , he ever was , is , and will be , and for man , as man , to be nothing but a poore worme , a weak , empty , passive , nothing creature , as he ever was , is , and should be , and to have all strength , wisdome , and fulnesse of knowledge and understanding in life and glory with that one Almighty God , the all of all things . And in which work the Lord hath been with me to support me , to make sweet , pleasant , and delightful unto me , all his wayes of sufferings , persecutions , and trialls for the truth , through which the enemies thereof are confounded ; and now last of all , my present imprisonment , all which are things that accompany truth in the manifestation thereof to men , and to the advancement of it self over all its enemies , by discovering them in the way of their opposition against the truth , where they are taken in their owne Net , and destroyed : For the Devill was never knowne to be a Devill , and to be cast out as a Devill , till he made war with Christ and his Seed , and seeking to be something , became nothing , was cast out of heaven to the earth , that is , all his ways and actions was made appear to be but earthly , sensual , and devillish , as having no part in Christ , and so was cast out of heaven , and as with him , so with all in him , that are found Fighters against God , and that act in the way of the Devil , against the appearances of truth by the Lord Jesus , which in those following discourses you will find to be acted by those who set themselves in malice against me , to betray me , and to quench the appearances of truth which had been delivered by me , for which they in their Pulpits did often revile me , as a Blasphemer , & a devil , telling the people their own empty pues would rise in judgment against them , for coming from them unto me , wishing confusion to that power that should tolerate such Doctrine , by which the love of God to all men appeared , and which in these Disputes they opposed against me , contrary to the practise of a Minister of Christ , but the Lord still appeared beyond the expectation of man , in which he did inable me with faithfulnesse and boldnesse to make known to the people this mystery of the hidden wisdome and counsel of God for the salvation of mankind in the Lord Jesus , though for the same I my selfe now am a Prisoner , but the truth which cannot be imprisoned is free , which is my joy and Crowne of rejoycing , and which in due time will be the joy of those that oppose it ( though it be now their sorrow ) when it shall have made them free , as it hath done me , by destroying the enmity that is in them against it . And now my friends & brethren , you that know this truth , and are set free by it , I desire you may be an ornament to it in the exercise of it , for which I leave you all to the Lord , and rest together with you in the Lord , who only is able to make us stand , farewell . Richard Coppin . From my Prison-house at Maidston in Kent , Feb. 12 : To Mr. Richard Coppin on his Sufferings , by some Priests of Kent . REnowned Friend , bear up thy mind , Thy light it is profound , It will Sin , Hell , and Devils bind , And all their cheats confound . What though the * Chimmerims conspire , As alwayes they have done , Against Gods life , which is as fire , To burn their Babel down : But go thou on , for truth contend , And Christian liberty , Though blinded minds against it bend , Yet God at last shall free Vs from the hellish snares of Priests , And formall Whiners too , Although they now do what they lists , That rope will them undoe : For surely they themselves will hang , If they are let alone , For most they do is but to bang Themselves ; but when they moan , Who shall them pity , or respect , Reward , reward them double , Who nought but cruelty assert , And fill the world with trouble : But thou brave soule , whose life is love , To all the whole Creation , Go on , be brave , thy mind 's above ; Preach still the great Salvation ; And Christ within , the life of all That is , or hath a being , The Eye Eterne , and yet Mentall , Whose work is alwayes freeing Vs from all enemies within , And raising us with Christ , And clearing us from fancied sin , To live with God the highest . What shall I say , time would me fail , Thy sufferings to relate , Yet all thy enemies cant prevail , God still doth dissipate Men to their shame , their horrid lies That they have still invented , To cloud Christs real mysteries , By truth they are tor mented . An Hirogliphical , Astrological causion to all sable learned Priests , and others that persecute the life of Christ , and speak evil of things they know not . OLd Saturns persecuting minde Hath sometimes rampant been , And lately couchant , and as blind , Though now he 's passant seen : But have a care , go not too fast , Joves splendour to distresse , Lest Mars and Sol agree at last To curb thy cruelnesse . By J. L. The Names of such Books published by R. Coppin , and are to be sold at the BLACK-MOOR . 1. DIvine Teachings . 2. Mans Righteousnesse examined . 3. Saul smitten for not smiting Amalick . 4. A Man-Child borne . 5. Truths T●stimonie . A Dialogue betweene Nimrod Policy , and Nathanael Innocency , by J. Lane . Twelve Songs of Sion , by J. L. One other book of the same Doctrine , by W. Foxon . Truths Champion , first and second Part , concerning Generall Redemption , Ministery , and Ordinances , by R. Stooks . Truths Triumph , OR The Triumphing of TRVTH , OVER The Enemies and Aspersers thereof . In several Disputes holden at the Cathedral Church , of the City of Rochester , in the County of Kent , between several Ministers , and Richard Coppin , on several daies . DISPUTE . I. Between Walter Rosewell , then a Preacher at Chatham , and Richard Coppin , then Preacher in the Cathedral of Rochester , being on Munday , the third day of December , 1655. THe people being come together into the Cathedral , Richard Coppin began in prayer , after which , the Mayor of the City , and Captain Smith , Captain of the Guard , desired the people to keep silence , and none to speak but Rosewell and Coppin , if any else did , they should be apprehended , and proceeded against , as Disturbers of the Peace . Then spake Coppin , saying , I desire also that the people will all keep silent , and none to speak a word , but those who are in dispute : I know you are a people divided some for the one party , and some for the other , and I shall speak to you all . First , to you that are on the contrary party to me , and that have any desire to speak , not to speak above one at a time , and so speak as many as will , provided the one hath done before the other begin . And to you that may have any desire to speak on my behalf , I entreat you all to be silent , and not to speak a word , but to leave all to the Lord and my self . Rosew . M. Mayor , I thought none but you , & the rest of the Magistrates and Officers of the Army , should have had the mannaging this Dispute , and I to have began first , that so this mans discourse might have been spared : And as for the plausible prayer he made at my coming in to delude the people , I confesse my Conscience would not give me to joyn with him , not but that the matter thereof was good , but I knowing his Principle to be corrupt , could not say Amen to it : And now , if you please , I shall first make a short Prayer , and then go on to the work , for I cannot undertake a businesse of such weight , for the suppressing of such damnable errors as here hath been vented , without calling upon God for assistance , both to Magistrates , Officers , and Ministers in this work . CHAP. I. That Christ , who knew no sin , took part of mans flesh and blood which was sinful , weak , and punishable , how in it he was made the same , and for what end . ROsewell . There be three things which I shall charge you withal at present , the which you should endeavour to clear your self of if you can , and that I shall propound in a Logical way , yet so plain , that that little reason you are endowed withal may understand it ; as for Art , I presume you have none . Proposition . First , he that is a perswader of the people to believe that Jesus Christ was a sinner , and that the Humane Nature of Christ was polluted with sin , he is a Blasphemer of Christ , a Perverter of Scripture , and a venter of damnable errors . Coppin . Sir , you have here laid down a Proposition , the affirmation of which you say is Blasphemy , and he a Blasphemer that shall perswade men to believe it : But Sir , who do you charge with it , me , or some other , or did any man else ever hear me say these words , if any did , let him speak , and I will answer it , for there is no reason for me to answer to that which is not laid to my charge , and I came not here to charge my self , but do now expect something of accusation from you , else why have you , and the rest of your Brethren , so often railed against me in your Pulpits ? Rosewell . I desire the Souldiers and Magistrates to declare if I have any reason to speak any further , till this Proposition be answered . Coppin . Do you charge me with any thing in this Proposition , or not ? if you do , I will answer you , else I may say to you , as Christ my Elder Brother sometimes said to his Accusers , Ye said these words , I said them not . Rosewell . Oh horrible Blasphemy , to call Christ your Elder Brother ! I professe I dare not say so ; no , you will find him to be your Judge at the last day , to condemn you for your Blasphemy . Coppin . He is your Elder Brother also , though you do not know him : But Sir , I perceive you for your part have yet nothing against me , and therefore you urge these things , endeavouring to draw somthing from my own mouth to accuse me , which is not a Disputing in love ( on your part , to edifie the people , as you pretended ) but to charge me with Blasphemy , as the Jewes , and Scribes , and Pharisees did Christ , which you cannot prove : Yet to give the people satisfaction , I shall not hide any thing from them , but shall be free to declare such things that God hath made known to me , that so he might be glorified , and their souls comforted , which I shall also do according to the Scriptures , and then catch what you can . Therefore first I declare , that the Lord Jesus Christ , the Son of the living God , and Saviour of the World , ( that proceeded forth from the Father into the world , to take on him part of the same flesh and bloud of men , and to live in it ) was himself , holy , harmlesse , and undefiled , in whose mouth was found no guile ; as saith the Scripture ; yet this Lord Jesus , and Son of the living God , who was so holy and harmlesse , was himselfe pleased to take mans sinful nature ( so called ) to live in it , and cleanse it ; he was made in the likenesse of sinful flesh , and for sin , he condemned sin in the flesh , as also saith the Scripture , nay , he was in all things made like unto his Brethren , sin known and ( committed ) excepted , that as we had in us the knowledge and actings of sin , so God made him to be sin for us , who himself knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousnesse of God in him . Rosewell . Though you say he committed none , yet you do here intimate that Christs nature was tainted with original sin , which I prove to be blasphemy , for now I have it from your own mouth ; indeed , he was made a Sin Offering for sin , the Scripture saith . But Mr. Mayor , and Captain Smith , you may plainlie see how his argument is corrupted , which will go about to make men believe that Christ was a sinner , and that his nature was tainted with original sin . Coppin . 'T is you that say so , & not I , as the people canwitnefs . Head the Lawer . But you have said it , and I have it here in writing . Coppin . Have you so Sir , pray let me hear what you have written , for now I see you still lie upon the catch , therefore you people pray take notice , and I will repeat the words again , and see if I speak any thing that the Scripture will not bear me out in . I say the Lord Jesus Christ , the Son of the living God , and Saviour of the world , knew no sin , neither was guile found in his mouth ; yet was all the sins of all men in the world laid upon him , and reckoned to him , to be no longer ours , but his , that he might suffer for them . Robison a Justice . Will you say that Christ suffered for his own sins ? Coppin . Not as acted by him , but reckoned to him : But Sir , pray answer me this question , seeing you have spoke , Is the body of Christ part of himself , or not ? Robison . Yes , his bodie is himself . Coppin . Pray then whose body are all the men in the world which Christ died for ? Robison . Whose , why they are the bodie of Christ . Coppin . Then people take no●ice , if the whole world of men which Christ died for , be the bodie of Christ , then Christ dying for their sins , died for the sins of his own bodie , whose bodie we all are , and members in particular , as 't is written , We are members of his bodie , of his flesh , and of his bones ; and so Christ in his bodie of flesh , as part of ours , did bear our sins and infirmities , 1 Pet. 2. 24. whose his own self did bear our sins in his own bodie on the Tree ; and in Mat. 8. 16. himselfe took our infirmities , and bear our sicknesses , and Isa 53. 3. 4. 5. He is despised and rejected of men , a man of sorrows , and acquainted with grief ; and we hid as it were our faces from him , he was despised , and we esteemed him not : Surely he hath borne our griefs , and carried our sorrows , yet we did esteem him stricken , smitten of God , and afflicted : He was wounded for our transgressions , he was bruised for our iniquities , and the chastisements of our peace was upon him : We all like sheep have gone astray , and the Lord hath laid upon him the iniquities of us all . So that whatsoever sins , whatsoever sicknesses , weaknesses , infirmities and punishments was in the flesh of men , Christ taking the same flesh and bloud of men upon him , took all this , that so he might overcome it for men , according to those Scriptures . Rosewell . You pervert Scripture , for the meaning is , he took our punishments , and not our sins . Coppin . Nay , then you pervert Scripture , for the words are , He bear our sins . Rosewell . Mr. Mayor , and the rest , you may see with what a Brazen-face this Blasphemer stands to maintain his damnable errors . Coppin . And 't is well I have such a face , and such patience , else it were not for me to stand here before you , to hear such railing and reviling , which you never learned from Christ ; for when he Disputed with the Devil about the bodie of Moses , he brought no railing Accusation , but said , The Lord rebuke thee . Rosewell . Then the Lord rebuke thee Satan : But you must not think to shift it off so , for you have perverted Scripture , and you must give satisfaction in it . Coppin . Sir , what do you mean by satisfaction ? It may be if I stand here till to morrow you will not be satisfied , but my desire is to satisfie the people , and you , if I may . Rosewell . You are before a juditions Auditorie , which may well understand you . Coppin . It is well you do now confesse they are a juditious Auditorie , you did say the other day to the contrarie . Rosewell . You do not answer any thing to this Proposition , but do pervert the Scripture , by saying the nature of Christ was polluted with sin . Coppin . I do not say , that his nature was polluted with sin , but that our nature was polluted , till Christ was manifest in it , to destroy the pollutions of it , as 't is written , For this purpose was the Son of God manifest , that he might destroy the works of the Devil : And the Lord hath laid on him the iniquities of us all ; and he did bear them in his own bodie on the Tree . Rosewell . I say again , he that doth teach people to believe that Jesus Christ was a sinner , and that his nature was polluted with sin , is a Blafphemer of Christ , and a venter of damnable errors , but you do teach people to believe so ; ergo . Coppin . I still denie your minor , and did never say that Christ was a sinner , as all the people can witnesse ; but I say , He was made sin for us , and yet knew no sin , but did bear our sins in his bodie . Rosewell . He that doth attribute any thing to Christ that is a dishonor to Christ , he is a perverter of Scripture , and a Blasphemer of Christ ; but you , by saying the nature of Christ was polluted with sin , have d●ne so : ergo . Coppin . I have denied your minor , which you cannot prove , and do des●re you to declare what nature of man it was the Scripture saith Christ did take on him , Was it a holy nature , or a sinful nature ? Rosewell . The nature of man , when Christ did come to take it on him was polluted , but that part which Christ did take on him was holie , for it was the nature of a Virgin , Luke 1. 35. The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee , and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee , therefore that holy thing which shall be born of thee , shall be called the Son of God . He did take mans nature on him , but not his sins , and this I declare , and am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ . Coppin . The nature of the Virgin Mary , which you say was holy before Christ took it on him , I say was the same with all other mens nature for sinfulnesse , for all had sinned , and Christ took on him the sinful nature of all which sinned , before he could undergo the punishment due for sin , as I have proved by several Scriptures and Arguments in answer to this Proposition , and therefore if you , or any man else , have any thing more to say , speak now , or else ever hereafter behind my back hold your peace . CHAP. II. That all men shall be saved , of Redemption out of Hell , and in what sense a mans good works doth him no good , and his bad works no hurt . ROsewell . He that doth perswade people to believe that all men shall be saved , he is a perverter of Scripture , a Blasphemer of Christ , and a venter of damnable errors ; but you do so : ergo . Coppin . I denie your major Proposition , as to the Blasphemy , therefore prove it . Rosewell . By the way , take notice , he doth go about to maintain that all men shall be saved . Coppin . I do not yet tell you what I maintain , but I put you to prove-that part of your major Proposition . Rosewell . He that perswades people to believe that which the Scripture doth flatlie contradict , he is a perverter of Scripture ; and a Blasphemer of Christ ; but this , that all men shall be saved , is flatlie contradicted by Scripture , Mark 16. He that believes shall be saved , but he that believeth not shall be damned . Coppin . I shall answer your Proposition by another , whatsoever is the will of God , is not Blasphemy to affirm , but the will of God is the Salvation of all men , therefore to say that all men shall be saved , is not Blasphemy ; and I prove it in the first of Tim. 2. 3. I will , saith God , that all men shall be saved , and come to the knowledge of the truth . And it will be necessarie for you to declare what this Salvation and Damnation is , which you speak of also , when it is , and whete it is , for I acknowledge that he that believes shall be saved , and he that believes not , is condemned alreadie . Rosewell . This damnation is that of the soul , when it is separated from the bodie : Secondly , when Christ shall come generallie at the last day , when the whole world of Reprobates shall be cast into that lake of fire , which doth burn with brimstone , out of which there is no Redemption . Coppin . Pray prove that from thence there is no Redemption . Rosewell . Mat 25. The blessed shall go into everlasting life , and the wicked into everlasting fire , prepared for the Devil and his Angels . Coppin . I do also say , that the righteous shall have everlasting life , and the wicked shall have everlasting torment , but that doth not prove that there is no Salvation or Redemption out of hell , for the word everlasting , doth signifie for the time during , such a dispensation or administration of God to man ; therefore if you have any Scripture to prove that there is no Redemption out of hell , as you have often made the people believe there is not , produce it now , or else friends never believe him , nor any of your Teachers more when they tell you so , except they can prove it by Scripture : And trulie Sir , I had thought you had been a man better learned in Scripture , then you are , and seeing you cannot bring any proof for what you have said , I shall go on , and prove by Scripture , that from that hell ( the Scripture makes mention of ) there is Redemption . Rosewell . You do bring Scripture but to little purpose , only to glose your errors . Coppin . David saith , Thou hast not left my soul in hell , neithor wilt thou suffer thy Holy One to see corruption ; which shews , that there is a coming out from thence : And in Amos 9. 2. Though they dig down into hell , thence shall my hand take them , though they clime up to heaven , thence will I bring them down : So that the Lord will have men to come in his way , and not their own , they shall come to heaven , but through hell . Captain Smith . Mr. Coppin , pray prove how the word everlasting shall have an end , before you go any further . Coppin . I shall do it from the 17. of Gen. where God saith to Abrabam , I will make with thee an everlasting Covenant , and saith God , this is the Covenant I will make with thee , Every male shall be circumcised : And this Covenant upon these conditions did last but for a time , for we read , that God did afterwards make a new Covenant with us , that should never be ended . So in like manner the Priesthood of Aaron and ●is Sons was call'd an everlasting Priesthood , and yet that had a● end , and was changed into the Priesthood of Christ , that abideth for ever and ever , and we are said to be changed from one everlasting to another everlasting , which shews there are more everlastings then one , so that one everlasting is but the time during , of the same dispensation , under which we are for a time , until our change comes . Rosewell . We do speak concerning continuance in the place of torment and hell , in Scripture it hath several acceptations , the place you brought in Amos , I did intend to charge you with it for perverting it , for it is meant , that though he do clime never so high from God , he will bring them down , and dig never so deep to hide themselves , yet God will finde them out , and at the day of Judgement cast both body and soul of Reprobates into hell to be tormented ; but Mr. Mayor , and the rest , may see your prastise is to pervert Scripture . Coppin . I conceive also that the place in Amos , of climing up to heaven , and digging down to hell , is meant , that whatsoever any man of himself can do , to save himself , or to bring himself to heaven , will not bring him thither , neither save him , but God will pull him down with all his works , and make them unprofitable to him ; for he that goes any other way then by Christ , the door of life , he is a Thief and a Robber : Also whatsoever any man can do against himself to carry him to hell , shall not continue him there , but God will fetch him back again , and destroy all those wicked works that he hath done against his own salvation , according to that Scripture , Oh man thou hast destroyed thy self , but in me is thy help : So that destruction is to man for the time present here , while man is unacquainted with God . Rosewell . You say no good any man can do can help him , or do him any good , nor no evil he can do , can do him hurt ; this openeth a gap to all manner of wickedness , so that he may be as well in the bosome of a Harlot , as in holy duties towards God ; but the contrary I do affirme , that good deeds do good to men in life and death , and after death it is said , man doth rest from his labours , and his works do follow him . Coppin . Man doth rest from his labour , and his works doth follow him , when he doth rest in Christ from the works of the Law , and is become dead to them : But Sir , I believe you have forgot that Scripture , who when ye have done all that you can , ye are unprofitable servants ; & therefore I say , that all that man can do for or against himself , cannot further nor hinder his salvation by Christ , for Christ will have nothing to joyn with him to save a man , neither shall any thing be able to keep us from him , but though for a time man hath destroyed himself , yet in God is his help ; and this doth not thereby give any toleration to sin , for though their good works brings them not to heaven , yet they are profitable unto men as they are , and their bad works unprofitable ; but the love of God in Christ Jesus manifested to them , keeps and constrains them from that which is evil . Rosewell . I am glad this Auditorie doth see sufficiently the carriage of this man in this thing , you may take notice he hath been before five several Judges of Assizes already . Coppin . Then I have been like to my Elder Brother Jesus Christ , who said , that as he was , so should we be brought before Judges and Rulers for his Names sake , and yet I shall , while I may , still continue in speaking and writing , to testifie to the world what the Lord for their sakes hath made known in me for truth . Rosewell . Those things you call truths of God , are nothing else but the lies of the devil , and if Mr. Mayor , and the rest think fit , I shall proceed no further , but conclude , for I could imploy my time far better in my Study ; and I shall meet with you in my Catechisical Exercises , which I intend to begin next Saturday , and Mr. Mayor , and the rest , and Souldiers , I shall present to you several Catechismes to keep you from those damnable errors . Coppin . Have you been a Teacher of your people so long , and now do you begin to Catechize them , it seems your design is to keep them still in ignorance , to have them alwayes learning , but never come to the knowledge of the truth ; and truly you that have been his hearers all this while , it hath been to little purpose , that now you must turn back to be Catechized at last . Well Sir , if you have any more , go on . Rosewell . Yes , I have many things against you , but time will be but lost here to discover them with you , yet take one thing more . CHAP. III. Christ at the left hand of God , bearing sin , shun the curse and condemnation for all men , what the right and left hand is , also the Sheep and the Goats , that the way to the right hand is by the left , and how . ROsewell . He that will perswade the people to believe that Jesus Christ is a sinful Goat , to whom God will say , Go ye cursed , he is a perverter of Scripture , a venter of damnable errors , but you do ; ergo Coppin . Let me ask you one question , the Goats that are spoken of , Are they believers ? Or are they unbelievers ? Or are they part of both ? Rosewell . The Goats on the left hand are unbelievers , and the Sheep on the right hand Believers . Coppin . It is also necessarie for you to shew , what is to be understood by the right and left hand of God , and then we shall know the better how the Sheep and Goats are there , and when , for in this there is an Allegorie , which if you know not , I will tell you . Captain Smith . Mr. Coppin , It is referred to you , to declare your judgment upon it . Coppin . I will : There is mention made of a right and left hand of God in Scripture , the sheep and the goats , Believers and Unbelievers , they on the right hand are the sheep blessed , and they on the left hand are the goats cursed ; but to understand this , the left hand of God where the Goats are cursed , is the Law , and the right hand of God where the Sheep are blessed , is the Gospel ; the left hand of God is also his wrath , and the right hand is his love , and he saith to those on the left hand , as under wrath , manifested by the Law , Go ye cursed , for ye believe not , and are damned ; and he saith to those on his right hand , as under love , Joy and peace manifested by the Gospel , come ye blessed , for you believe , and are saved . Now all men for a time , before they believe and are regenerated , are at the left hand of God under the Law cursed , For he that breaks but one Commandment is guilty of all , and all have sinned ; and God hath concluded all men undersin , and unbelief , that he might have mercie upon all : Now all men being so under the curse , and under the Law , at the left hand of God , cannot be said to come from thence to the right hand , to receive the blessing and mercie , but by his stretching forth his right hand to take them from his left , as 't is written , All the day long have I stretched forth my arm to a disobedient , rebellious , and gainsaying people . Now what is this Arm of God , but the Lord Jesus Christ , freelie and in love held forth by the Father to the worst of sinners , and that would not receive him , For he came to his own , and his own received him not ; therefore saith the Prophet Isaiah , Who hath believed our report ? and to whom is the Arm of the Lord revealed ? even to sinners , and them that were out of the way , to them is Jesus Christ manifested for the knowledge of those things . And according to this did Jesus Christ come and put himself under the Law , and under the curse , at the left hand of God , to receive the wrath and the curse due to us , and all this he did for us , to bring us to the right hand of God , that we might receive the forgivenesse of sins through him and so be blessed for evermore in him , for whatsoever we were , Christ made himself the same , and all to redeem poor man from the curse he lay under : Was man under the Law ? so was Christ : Was man accursed for sin ? so was Christ : In Leviticus 16. 21. you may read there of a Scape Goat , on which Aaron laid both his hands , and confest over him all the sins of the people , and all their transgressions , laying them on the head of the live Goat , and the Goat was to carrie them away into the Wildernesse , into a Land not inhabited , from whence they should appear no more . Now this live Goat was a livelie tipe of Jesus Christ , who was to carrie away our sins , and was he indeed under that tipe that did carrie the sins of all the people , as in Isa. 53. 6. We all like sheep have gone astray , and the Lord hath laid upon him the iniquities of us all ; and he hath carried them away into the Wildernesse and lost them , buried them in the grave , cast them behind him , drowned them in the Sea of forgetfulnesse , never to be remembred any more : So that all people were cursed , and at the left hand of God bearing their own sins , till Jesus Christ did go there himself to redeem them from thence , by taking the curse on him , and bearing their sins for them , and so sets them at libertie from under the curse and wrath due by the Law , he being both God and man fitted for the purpose , having power to lay down his life , and to take it up again : And this Commandment he received from his Father , to do for us : Now he that must take on him the sins of the people , must take the curse on him also , therefore was Christ accursed for us , Gal. 3. 13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the Law , by being made a curse for us , as it is written , Cursed is every one that hangeth on a Tree , but Christ his own self did bear our sins in his bodie on the Tree . And friends , I call you all friends , though enemies , and brethren , though strangers , for I hate no man , but do love all , as Christ my Elder Brother hath given me Commandment , and shewed me an example that I should follow his steps : I say there is no believer now , but once he was an unbeliever , and there is no sheep now , but once he was a Goat at Gods left hand , and under the curse , till Jesus Christ the blessed Redeemer freed you from it , and blessed you by it , at his Fathers right hand : Now while man is an unbeliever , the Scripture saith he is condemned , He that believeth not is condemned already : so that the best of us all are in a prison , in the state of condemnation , and in hell under the curse , one as well as another , till Christ the Lord Jesus doth free us from it , by breaking open the prison doors , and puting himself into this prison , hell , and condemnation with us , standing there in our steeds , to receive that curse and condemnation which by the law is due to us without him , and so deliver us and himselfe together as one man , according to those Scriptures , he was himselfe taken from prison , and from judgment , he was given for a Covenant of the people , and for a light to the Gentiles , to open the blind eyes , to bring out the prisoners from the prison , and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house , that they might be where he is , all comes out with him , he leaves not one behinde , but delivers himself and them together , and then shuts up the doors , and locks in the divell , and so keeps the keyes of death , and of hell , saying , Feare not . Roswell . Christ was never in hell . Coppin . Sir , will you denie your own Faith , which you have so often confessed in your Creed , that he descended into hell . Robison . What do Christ goe into hell to turne us out before him , and then come out himselfe . Coppin . As we are first in hell before we are in Heaven , so he comes into hell to us , and with himselfe brings us out , and carries us to Heaven , according to those Scriptures , He hath raised us up together , and made us sit together in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus , and together with my dead body shall they arise ; and I ( saith he ) if I be lifted up , will draw all men unto me . But take this with you also , as a bone to pick against the next time , that as you are unbelievers before you are believers , so are you to be damned before you are saved , and in hell before you are in Heaven , for the way to Heaven is through hell : He that hath an eare to heare let him heare . DISPUTE . II. The Heads of a Dispute between Daniel French , Minister of Stroud , and Richard Coppin , on the nineth of December , being the Sabbath Day , after Morning Sermon , in the Cathedral of the City of Rochester . Mr. Coppin coming into the place to Preach his Morning Sermon , and Mr. French having left his own Congregation , and being there , did before Sermon propound to Mr. Coppin a question , as follows . FRench . Sir , on Munday last , in the Dispute with Mr. Rosewell , I did hear somthing from you which did seem very strange to me , and I came now , desiring to be satisfied . Coppin . The Truth is alwayes a stranger to those that are strangers to that , and know it not , till the Truth hath made them free , For I was a stranger , saith Christ , and ye took me not in ; and 't is the Truth it self that must satisfie you , and not I. French . I desire to speak somthing to the people after you have done . Coppin . Truly the time will be but short after I have done , therefore if you have any thing to say to me , you had better take a day to your self some other time , and I shall be willing to give you a meeting , provided it be in love , and for edification to the people . French . I professe before the Lord I have no hatred nor prejudice to any mans person , but their opinions . Coppin . Then it seems those opinions which are not one with yours , you hate , and judg to be wrong , and your own only to be right ; but I must tell you , I am not of your spirit , for I hate no mans person nor opinion , but am reconciled to all men in their several judgements and opinions , leaving them all to the Lord , knowing that the manifestations of God are various , to some more , and to some lesse , but as every man hath received Jesus Christ the Lord , so let him walk , speak and act , standing still in that light which the Lord hath enlightened him withal , and be content with his wages , till the Lord shall give him more . French . 'T was never well with us since there were such new lights . Coppin . 'T is true , that which you call new light , will out-shine your old lights , and yet no new light , but the same that ever was ; so he proceeded to Morning Sermon . CHAP. IIII. Christ no sinner , mans nature redeemed , what 's meant by the grave , death , hell , and hell fire , how man is in it , and how long . FRench . Having some opportunity , I shall declare semthing among you , to shew you the errors of this man Mr. Coppin , how he hath abused Jesus Christ , by saying , he took on him our sinful nature , as hath been delivered from his own mouth in the last Dispute and now , which I shall shew to the contrary from severall Scriptures , that there was no sin in him , and endeavour to undeceive you of this error ; first in Heb. 7. 26. For such an High-Priest became us , who is holy , harmlesse , undefiled , separate from sinners , and made higher then the heavens : Here you may see he had no sin ; so in 1 Pet. 1. 19. We are redeemed with the precious Blood of Christ , as of a Lamb without blemish , and without spot ; still you see he was without sin , verse 23. Being born again , not of corruptible seed , but of incorruptible , by the Word of God ; therefore there was no sin in the nature of Christ , as appears by these Scriptures , and I think I have given you Scriptures enough now , and yet I have more . Coppin . But Sir , let me answer this first , you said you came for satisfaction , and not to preach , therefore pray let me answer ; as to the holinesse of Christ himself , as he is in himselfe the Son and Seed of God , so he is holy and without sin ; but our nature which he was to offer up and make holy , was sinful and unholy before he took it on him , and he by offering it up , ( as taking it to himself ) and by his being slain ( to live in it ) as a Lamb without blemish ; our sinful nature is redeemed from sin to holinesse by Jesus Christ the incorruptible seed living in it , and by which we are redeemed to the same holy Priesthood with him , to be as Lambs without blemish in him . Captain Harrison . Mr. French , You may do well to one answer another briefly , or else you have a great advantage one of another , and it will be more advantage to the Hearers . French . Whereas Mr. Coppin was pleased the last Dispute , that out of hell there was redemption , and he brought the words of the Prophet David , when he saith , Thou wilt not leave my soule in hell , nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption ; This is not meant hell , but the grave , for hell hath severall acceptations ; sometimes it is taken for the grave ; as in this place , and not of hell ; as you would have it ; another Scripture you brought in Amos the 9. 2. in which I am of my Brother Rosewells opinion , and not yours , for that doth not prove redemption out of hell , but a coming to judgment soule and body at the last day , to receive the sentence of eternall damnation in hell , where the worm never dies , from whence there is no redemption . Coppin . Prove that out of hell there is no redemption , your Brother Rosewell could not . French . I prove it Matthew 25. These shall goe into everlasting punishment , but the righteous into life eternall . Coppin . That proves it not , for they may goe into that which is everlasting punishment , and yet come forth . French . I deny it , though you say the word everlasting hath an end , and that Scripture which you brought in Gen. 17. concerning the first Covenant , that it was everlasting , and had an end , when the second came , I deny , for it was all but one Covenant , and everlasting is for ever ; but I am sorry to see so many people here deluded with such errors . Coppin . Sir , you say but what your Brother Rosewell have said alreadie , which I then answer'd , and you understand not ; for the first Everlasting Covenant , as to the conditions thereof , which was the work ; of the Law , had an end , as to us , when God made with us a New Covenant , upon better conditions , without end , though to him the first and the last is all one , and where you have the word everlasting , or for ever , go single , there it may somtimes be said to last but for a time , age , or dispensation , but where it is from everlasting to everlasting , and for ever and ever , there it is world without end . French . I say there is no end of the punishment in hell for the wicked , where the worm never dies , nor the fire goes out , but the wicked persons of men shall be tormented eternally in the flames , suffering the vengeance of eternal fire . Coppin . I denie that men shall be eternallie in it , though the fire it self be as eternal as God , for God himself is this consuming fire , when it meets with that which is to be burnt , and this fire is to try everie mans works , of what sort it is , and he being refined , as having all his sins burnt up within him , by the spirit of burning , he shall come out of the fire of Gods anger , as one purged and made white , yet the fire remains the same still in it self , as in God , and man while in it , is said to suffer the vengeance of eternal fire , as of God , so long as there is any thing of dross , wood , hay , or stubble in man , for the fire to take hold of , till all be consumed ; as the Sea , it is alwaies full of water , and never emptie , and man may go into the water to wash himself , and after come forth , yet the sea remains still the same , as before , as that which man was in , but now is forth , so is this eternal fire , which everie man is to pass through before he is refined , and it were well with you if this fire had laid hold on you , for then you would be the purer , and the sooner come forth . French . I do not believe that he that is once in it , shall ever come forth , for out of hell there is no redemption , and 't is horrible blasphemie to say it . Coppin . You have no Scripture to prove it , and I see you understand it not , but I prove that David while he lived was shut up in it for somtime , and could not come forth , the wrath of God lay so hard upon him ; as you may read in Psalmes 88. beginning at the 6. verse , Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit , in darknesse , in the deep , thy wrath lieth hard upon me , and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves , thou hast put away mine asquaintance far from me , thou hast made me an ab●mination unto them , I am shut up , and I cannot come forth : This was Davids hell here on earth . French . But hell in some places is taken for the grave , and some for hell , and David speaks of the grave . Coppin . What do you mean by grave ? French . Why , the grave of earth that mens bodies are buried in . Coppin . But David was in this grave when he said it , and y 〈…〉 in his bodie on the earth , and not in the grave as you call so , therefore pray let me ask you one question , If hell in some places be taken for the grave , as you say it is ( though hell and grave are but differing terms in Scripture ) pray what is it taken for in Hos 13. 14. where God saith , I will ransome them from the power of the grave , I will redeem them from death : O death I will be thy plagues , O grave I will be thy destruction , repentance shall be hid from mine eyes : Pray tell me what is it meant here . French . I am not minded to tell you . Coppin . Then 't is because you cannot , therefore I will tell you , by the grave is here meant hell , which God will destroy in redeeming us from it , For , saith he , I will ransome them from the grave , I will redeem them from death ; O death I will be thy plagues , O grave I will be thy destruction : God will destroy that death and hell which destroyed us , which we through fear thereof were all our life time subject to bondage , for they came together , and shall end together , as two companions , Revel. 20. 14. and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire , this is the second death , and the last enemie to be destroyed ; but what this lake of fire and brimstone is , the Prophet Isaiah tells you , Isa. 30. last . Tophet is ordained of old , yea , for the King it is prepared , he hath made it deep and large , the pile thereof is fire and much wood , and the breath of the Lord like a stream of brimstone doth kindle it . This Tophet is the Lake or Vallie of Slaughter , prepared only for the King , the fire thereof is God himself , our God is a consuming fire , the fuel to be burnt is the devil , death and hell , with all mans works , good and bad , that he hath made his foundation to build upon , besides Christ , whether it be gold or precious stone , wood , hay , or stubble , all shall be burnt up , and he shall suffer losse , but he himself shall be saved , so as by fire , which fire is the Lord , and the stream of brimstone that kindles it , the breath of the Lord , to burn up , consume , blast , and weather whatsoever is not of God in man , but man shall be saved , and so saith the Lord , Furie is not in me , but if the wicked set bryers and thorns against me in battel , I will go through them , and consume them to together ; but this is all the fruit thereof to 〈…〉 e away their sins . CHAP. V. Christ coming in the Clouds , the place and manner of his Throne , how he as a man , body , flesh , and bones , is not in a place above the Skies , that the Christ of God is no where contained . FRench . But Christ shall come in flaming fire at the last day , at the end of the world , for he shall descend from heaven in the Clouds , with a shout , with the voice of the Arch-Angel , at the sound of a Trumpet , and he shall sit upon a Throne , and before him shall be gathered all Nations . Coppin . All this I know , and see to be now , for now is he upon his Throne , and have all Nations before him , and ever had , though you may not see it till it be manifest in you , therefore you should define what is meant by the Throne , and his siting upon it , and the place where it stands , and the Clouds in which he comes , for all people do believe that there are such things , but you should declare what , and when , and where it is , that people may know it , else how are you a Teacher of the people , if you know not those things . French . It is a Throne that shall stand upon the earth , and the clouds are the clouds of heaven above , overhead , in which he shall come , where we shall be caught up to meet him . Coppin . But define this Throne , what it is made of , and the manner of it how it stands , else you speak the things you know not , and that which you have not seen , nor heard from the Lord , but from your own imagination , as appeares , for the Scripture saith , His Throne is in heaven ; And how is it then on earth , if heaven be above , overhead , as you say it is ? But I do believe he is come , and coming dailie , and do set up his Throne in the hearts of men , where he is judging and condemning all things that is contrarie to himself , and when you see it to be in you , then you shall acknowledge it also , in the mean time you must be silent . French . I do be lieve he shall come from above in the clouds , overhead , with thousands of Angels , as a man in a bodily shape , with flesh , blood , and bones , for Job saith , he shall see him with those eyes stand upon the earth . Coppin . And Job in his life time did see him stand upon the earth in him , as he confesseth in his last Chapter , For now do mine eyes see thee , saith Job : And if you do but read Job from the beginning to the end , and understand what you read , you may see of Jobs state and condition , what it was , both before his change , and after his change . French . You abuse the Scriptures , and turns it which wayes your list , into an Allegorie , as a Nose of Wax . Coppin . The Scriptures are an Allegorie , and a great mysterie , For great is the mysterie of godlinesse ; and there is a spiritual meaning to be understood in it all along , for the sum of the whole Scripture is included in Law and Gospel , the first and second Covenant , as in Gal. 3. 24. speaking of the Son of the Bond-woman , and the Son of the Free-woman , which things , saith Paul , is an Allegorie , for these are the two Covenants , the one from Mount Sinai which gendereth to bondage , and under which all men are Bondmen , the other , which is Agar , from Mount Sion , or heavenlie Jerusalem , which is Sarah , and under which we are all Freemen , for Jerusalem , which is above , is free , which is the mother of us all , and this also is an Allegorie , and a great mysterie . Capt. Harrison . Ye pervert the Scriptures , and are a Blasphemer , and I will prove you so . Coppin . What is that you call Blasphemy ? Capt. Harrison . I am not to tell you now , speak not to me . Coppin . If you speak to me , I must speak to you : But Sir , How will you prove me a Blasphemer , by the Law of God , or the Law of man ? Capt. Harrison . First I 'le dispute with you , and do it by the Law of God , and then I 'le take another course . Coppin . Then it seemes what you cannot doe one way , you will endeavour to doe another . Lievtenant Scot . There is no body here that intends any hurt against you to intrap you . French . But he denies Christs body to be in Heaven above , and that is horrible blasphemy . Coppin . Prove that Christ is now in Heaven above , over head , as you say , in a body of flesh , blood , and bones , and that he shall so come , for the Scripture saith , flesh and blood shall not enter into Heaven , and though we have known Christ after the flesh , yet henceforth , known we him no more so . French . I prove it in Acts 1. that he did ascend up to Heaven in a body of flesh , blood , and bones , 8. Verse . But ye shall receive power after the Holy Ghost is come upon you , &c. And when he had spoken these things , while they beheld , he was taken up , and a cloud received him out of their sight , and while they looked stedfastly toward heaven , as he went up , behold two men stood by them in white apparel , which also said , ye men of Galilee why stand ye gazing up into Heaven , this same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven , shall so a come in like manner as you have seen him go into Heaven : And this is up above overhead , and not within man , as Mr. Coppin would have it . Coppin . The Disciples here had but a carnall knowledg of Christ , for the Spirit was not yet come upon them , because Christ was not yet ascended , and they beheld him onely as he was talking with them in his suffering body , which he for that time assumed to himselfe to appeare to them in , to confirm them of his resurrection , and his being taken up in a cloud , was his swift vanishing out of their sight into the Spirit , from that fleshly appearance ( as formerly he had done , the doores being shut ) and in which they were to see him no more , and were also reproved for so looking after him , for why stand ye gazing , ye men of Galilee , up into Heaven , this same Jesus , as you have seene him goe , so in like manner shall you see him come , that is , he grew invisible to their carnall eye , and they were to see him no more till they saw him in them ; So also his coming should be to them suddainly in the Spirit , as of a rushing mighty wind , and so it was , Acts 2. 1. Therefore this Ascention of Christ is not to be understood carnallie , but spirituallie , even as his descending was at first , for he that ascended , is the same he that first descended ; and we read not of a bodie of flesh and bones that descended , but the Holy Ghost came down upon the Virgin Mary , and the power of the most High overshadowed her ; and this coming ( onlie ) his Disciples were to look for on them , as Christ told them , Acts 1. 4. but wait for the promise of the Father ; which saith , Christ you have heard concerning me , and which you shall receive when the Holie Ghost is come upon you , and which they also did receive , as in Acts 2. and therefore to look for such a fleshlie Christ as you declare , you may look long enough before you see him . French . But he was caught up above , overhead , and shall so come again in the very same fleshlie bodie . Coppin . This word overhead , there is none written , and this word above you know not , for Christ may be said to be above , and yet in man , for the word above signifies heaven , or heavenlie things , which the Scripture saith is in man ; For if you be risen with Christ , seek the things that are above , which is beyond the reach of a carnal capacitie , being spiritual things , as love , joy , peace , gentlenesse , goodness , meekness , faith , &c. and so carries that name of things above , as the same with God , being things of a purer nature then the things that are below , as division , wrath , envie , malice , and evil speaking , which are the fruits of the flesh , and are said to be earthlie , sensual , and devillish , and so goes under that term below , or inferiour , as one with the devil , and not to be esteemed of as the fruits of the Spirit , which are alwayes in God , and so above all , as God is above the Devil , and Light above Darknesse ; and this is that heaven above , into which Christ is ascended far above all heavens , and into which we all shall be carried by him , to be for ever with him in the Fathers glory . And now pray tell me where is your heaven , which you call above , that you say Christ is in , in a body of flesh . French . It is the third Heaven , above the Stars . Coppin . How do you prove it ? when the Scripture saith , That the heaven of heavens cannot contain him . French . I prove it from Paul , for he was caught up into the third heaven , where he saw Christ , as before , and knew him , and saw things unspeakable , and full of glory with him . Coppin . But Paul was all this while living on the earth , and said , Christ was no more to be seen in the flesh after he ascended , and he being caught up into the third heaven , was his being carried up out of himselfe into high Revelations of glorious manifestations of God in him , which is Christ in us the hope of glory . French . But he saw Christ there personally in a body , flesh and bones , the same which he had before his death , at Gods right hand , now in glory . Coppin . If Christ be at Gods right hand in a body of flesh and bones , after that manner , as you say he is , then this is to make God to be a body of flesh , and bones also , and such a one as your selfe , that must be confined to a locall place , when the Scripture saith , he is unconfined to any time , place , or person , but fills Heaven and earth with his fulness , therefore when you speak of God and Christ , you should declare what they are , and what his right hand is , but because you know not , I will tell you . God and Christ is one and the same in Spirit and glory , and Christ being in Heaven at Gods right hand , is his being in God far above all Heavens or created things , injoying the same fulness of God , as one whom God cannot be without , he being that eternal wisdome and power by which he doth all things , and by whom all things consist , therefore if any blasphemy hath been spoke , 't is you that hath spoke it , and not I. Captain Harrison . Sirrah , you brazenface Rabshackel , what , doe you get up here to declare your blasphemy ? come downe , or I 'le pull you downe . Coppin . I thought you had come in love , and not in malice , but now I see your end is to catch what you can to accuse me , and because you cannot have your end , you are angry . Captain Harrison . We came here on purpose to heare you , and now we have heard blasphemy enough from your owne mouth , and that you shall know e're long , and so the dispute ended ; but Mr. Coppin desired the people to come againe an houre after , for he was to Preach . DISPUTE . III. Between Walter Rosewell and Richard Coppin , in the Cathedral of Rochester , on the eleventh of December . ROsewell . I shall not feare this man , though he were never so well armed with gifts to maintaine his damnable errours . Coppin . I acknowledge my selfe ( as I am a man ) to be as the weakest and worst of men , nay , a poor worme , yet strength may be manifest in weaknesse , and wisdome in foolishnesse , For God hath chosen the poor , weak , despised , and base things of the world to confound the wise , and things that are not , to confound the things that are . And friends and Brethren , I came here as a stranger into those parts , yet through the desires of many of you here present , therefore I am my selfe unacquainted how the actings of men have been , according to the present times , but I am inform'd that some of the chiefest of the Promoters of these Disputes , have been , and are enemies to the present Power ; I shall therefore desire that the Publike Peace , according to the present Government , may be kept and preserved . Rosewell . I know you speak something of this to me , as well as others , though you might have spared it ; but I confesse you have made a fair speech , as a prepara●●e unto your businesse , but let that passe , I shall begin . CHAP. VI . That the whole nature of man was sinful , how Christ took our sins with our nature , and offer'd it up with himself without sin to the Father , that he still lives in it in us , and how . ROsewell . In the Name of the Lord Jesus , whom you have blasphemed , I shall charge you , and let none be affended that I do begin where I did begin the last day . Coppin . Let us not be alwaies on one thing , but if you have any thing else to say , proceed to that , for Mr. French did speak also the same things which you had spoke before , but the other day . Rosewell . You said , I had no more the other day , but you shall find I have enough now ; what my Brother French spake the other day , I had no knowledg of , but I think it was unseasonable at that time , and it had been better let alone . I say , he that from Scripture shall labour to perswade people to believe that Jesus Christ was a sinner , and that his humane nature was tainted with original sin , he is a perverter of Scripture , a blasphemer of Christ , and a venter of damnable errors and heresies , and on this I do desire to build the future structure , but then there was some things hinted for the undermining of this Proposition . Now if Christ be polluted with sins , then is our preaching vain , and your faith in vain , therefore if I do make this my main Proposition , it will not be impertinent to the businesse , therefore let every one turn to the Bible , they may all see to how little purpose those Scriptures was brought by him the other day : First , this is to pull the Crown from the head of Christ , to say he was a sinner : Secondly , I say it is a perverting of Scripture , and a seting Scripture in opposition against Scripture , 1 Pet. 2. 24. He bear our sins , Heb. 4. 15. He was in all things like us , sin onlie excepted , John 14. 30. The Prince of this world cometh , and hath nothing in me , If there had been sin in Christ , he could not have withstood the temptation of the devil , 2 Cor. 5. 21. But you see Jesus Christ was made sin for us , that is , he was made a Sin-offering for us ; I will appeal to all that 's skilled in Tongues , for the same word which is here translated sin , is in Exodus 40. Sin-offering ; where there is a dark saying in the body of the Text , there is a remedy in the side , for it is said , He was made sin for us , which knew no sin in himself : And where Christ is said to bear our sins in his body , it is not in a proper sense , for sin cannot be , and not be , in one and the same person , at one and the same time , as you say , in 1 Pet. 2. 24. He bear our sins , Isa. 53. 6. The Lord hath laid on him the iniquitie of us all : I will grant you in a sound Orthodox sense he may be said to bear our sins , and as his righteousnesse is imputed to us , so is our sins imputed to him : And now I hope I have abundantly satisfied all that are intelligible in making good this Proposition . Coppin . You did say the last Sabbath day in your Sermon , that this day you would make me ashamed ever to shew my face any more in this place ( as I was informed ) and this is the way indeed , for you to take up all the time , and let me have none . Rosewell . I do dispair now of ever making you ashamed , but I hope to make your Auditorie ashamed . Coppin . Pray give me leave to speak now . Rosewell . I will give you rope enough . Coppin . You have spent a great deal of time to little purpose , to make good a Proposition , which by me was never denied ; for neither you , nor any one else , did ever hear me say , that Christ was a sinner , but was holie , just , and righteous , onlie ( as the Scripture saith ) he was made sin for us , and did bear our sins in his bodie , which you understand not : But to proceed , let me ask you one question ; What flesh and blood was that of man that Christ did take on him ? Was it holie flesh , or sinful flesh ? Rosewell . I say that the flesh and blood of man , for the substance of it , which Christ took , was holie ; now Christ took our nature , but not our pollutions . Captain Smith . Sir , I conceive that Mr. Coppin hath given you satisfaction to this Proposition in the last Dispute , therefore if you have any thing else Mr. Rosewell , you may please to go on . Rosewell . I do but prove now that Christ did not take our pollutions , Luke 2. 35. That Holie thing that shall be born of thee , shall be called the Son of God , he took the nature of a Virgin . Coppin . Was the nature of the Virgin Mary without sin when Christ took it on him , in that she was a Virgin , if it were , then in what sense was she called a Virgin . Rosewell . In that she did never know man . Coppin . And so there are thousands in the world that may be Virgins , upon that account , as not knowing man , and yet be never the lesse sinful , for all have sinned , therefore you say you know not what . Rosewell . Pray take heed of his Juggles . Coppin . If man was a sinner , and the nature of man which Christ took on him was holie , then to what end did Christ take on him the nature of man , and leave man still in his sins . Rosewell . I did not say mens nature was not sinful . Then the people burst out into a laughter , saying , He did . Captain Smith . If any do laugh , it will be taken notice of . Coppin . Friends , seeing somtimes you cannot chuse but laugh , henceforth laugh inwardly , and make no noise . Roswell . I have not to do with children , I suppose this laughter was at the folly of this man , not at me : Now , I say , that the nature of man which Christ did take part of , was polluted with sin , but that part which Christ did take was holy . Coppin . You say then , that some part of mans nature was sinful , and some part holie , but you will say anone , that all was sinful . Rosewell . I say , all but that part which Christ did take was polluted . Coppin . You know not what to say your self , for sometimes you seem to say that all mans nature is sinful , and that Christ took on him mans nature , but not his sins and pollutions : Again , you say he took part of mans nature , which was holie , and left that part which was sinful ; but I say , the whole nature of man was polluted , for a little leaven , leavens the whole lump ; one sin makes all sinful , and Christ took on him the same , or none , even our sins with our nature , and so 't is written , He took our nature , and bear our sins , therefore friends , take notice , how this man have lost himself , and know not how to prove any thing . Rosewell . I say , this man will still labour to maintain that Christs nature was polluted with sin . Coppin . I say , the nature was ours , but it was no longer polluted , when once Christ lived in it : But I perceive you labour to maintaine Christ to be onelie that individual bodie of flesh , which was part of our flesh , and was sinfull , and not as one living in it , and so you denie the Christ of God , which is our life and light ; and you do but passe away time in repeating over one thing so often , therefore pray have done , that I may go on , to clear it up . Rosewell . Yea , I will give you rope enough to go to the end of your ladder . Coppin . That the whole nature of man was polluted throughout , the Prophet Isaiah witnesseth , For from the soal of the foot , even unto the head , there is no soundness in it , but wounds , and bruises , and putrified soars , they have not been closed , neither bound up , nor mollified with oyntment , Isa. 1. 6. So that before the coming of Christ into man , to binde up his wounds , to annoint him with oile , and to sanctifie him he is polluted throughout , Ezek. 16. Rosewell . Rub your Brazen-face , and go on . Coppin . If the nature of man had beene holie before Christ took it on him , then Christ need not have come to make it holie , but because it was polluted with sinne , therefore did Christ come and take part of the same sinfull nature , that he by living in that nature , might sanctifie and cleanse it all , and thereby present the whole nature of man pure , spotlesse , and blamelesse to the Father , making it to be accepted in him the beloved Jesus , for without him there was none righteous , no not , one , but all have sinned , and come short of the glory of God : And he hath concluded all men under sin and unbelief , that he might have mercy upon all ; and this mercie is manifested in Heb. 2. 14. That forasmuch as the children are partakers of flesh and blood , he also himself likewise took part of the same , that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death , which is the Devill , and deliver them , who through feare of death , were all their life time subject to bondage : For before Christ did take our flesh on him , the Devill and Sinne did dwell in it , but because that men should not for ever remaine so under the Dominions of sin , death , hell , and the devil ; God himself did manifest himself to live in our nature or sinful flesh , that he might destroy both his and our enemies , even sin , death , hell , and the devill in our nature , which devil had no part in him , 1 John 3. 8. For this purpose was the Son of God manifested , that he might destroy the works of the devil , without which no man could live to see the face of God in righteousnesse ; as 't is written , We must needs die , and are all like water spilt upon the ground , which could not be gathered up again : And God , without respect of persons , did find out this way in his Son to redeem us again to himselfe , even by his being manifest in our flesh , yea , in our sinful flesh , not that he was that flesh , but did live in it , to destroy the pollutions of it , and so present it to his Father , as blamelesse , and as holie as himself , For he that sanctifieth , and they who are sanctified , are all of one , for which cause he is not ashamed to call them Brethren , saying , I will declare thy Name unto my Brethren , in the mid'st of the Church will I sing praise unto thee : And again , I will put my trust in thee , and beh●ld I and the children which God hath given me ( are with thee ) Heb. 2. 11. Rosewell . Cannot every one read this as well as you ? Coppin . Pray interrupt me not , I shall yet go on , verse 17. 18. He was in all things made like unto his Brethren , that he might be a mercifull and faithfull High-Priest , to offer up for the sinnes of the people , which till he had taken them on him in our likeness , he could not doe ; and in that he himselfe hath suffered for them , being tempted , he is able to succour them that are tempted , but if our nature were holy before Christ took it on him , to what end did he take it to suffer in it ? and yet , I say , this Jesus which did take our nature on him ( and still lives in it , now in us , and will also in those that shall come after us ) was not himselfe sinfull , but righteous , and the sinfulness of it was ours , and is known onely to us , and not to him living in us , for he knew no sin , and yet he in our nature did beare all oursins , and it was the sins of all men that did crucifie him , which he did beare in ( their nature as ) his own body on the Tree , for the same nature that sinned , did suffer for sin , and not another nature , and he being both God and man , as having the nature of both , so he had power to die , and to live againe , to lay downe his life , and to take it up ; and so he became our Holy High-Priest , to offer up us and our nature in himselfe , and his nature , by one offering to the Father ( to reconcile us to God ) when he offer'd up himselfe once for all : And now answer me one question , What High-Priest is that spoken of in Heb. 5. 1. 2. 3. And that you may know , he is there said to have compassion on the ignorant , and on them that are out of the way , for that he himselfe also is compassed about with our infirmities , and what High-Priest is this say you ? Then answered one Mr. Wife a Minister , It is spoken of Jesus Christ . Coppin . It seems you cannot answer your selfe , you must have some other to answer for you . Rosewell . I will fetch one Oyster-Wife from Billingsgate shall answer you . Coppin . Well , you denie not this answer made for you , concerning this Scripture in Heb. 5. that the High-Priest there spoken of was Christ , which if it be as you say , and not I , then read the next words , ver. 3. and by reason thereof he ought , as for the people , so also for himself , to offer for sins . Rosewell . You have confest confest what I charged you with . Coppin . I have only read to you the words of the Scripture ; Also if Christ be our Suretie to pay our debt , as in Heb. 7. 22. then the debt became his , as well as ours , which he paid for himself , as for us , after he had taken it to him ; and so he may be said , to offer for his own sins also , as for the peoples , according to these Scriptures , Isaiah 53. 12. He was numbered with the transgressors . Rosewell . Now I desire all to take notice , and they may plainly see you are a Blasphemer , I shall now follow you in your Wile-Goose-Chase ; He that shall pretend Scripture , that Christ did offer for his own sins , as also for the peoples , he is a Blasphemer ; but you have ; ergo Coppin . I have not pretended Scripture ▪ but have proved all things that I have said plainlie by Scripture ; and concerning that in the Heb. I did ask you what was meant by that High-Priest , and because you did not answer your self , some other bodie did for you , saying , it was Christ . Rosewell . But you did affirm that Christ in our nature did offer for his owne sins , as also for the peoples , and how can there be salvation in him that must offer for his owne sins ? therefore all that heare you , must conclude this to be high blasphemy against Jesus Christ , and it is dangerous damnable doctrine . Coppin . You say it is dangerous , and so it is to you , because it is contrary to your doctrine , and doth overthrow it , but it is not dangerous to the truth , but to that which is a lye , and that cannot stand before it , and therefore you raile against it , because you can no way overthrow it . Rosewell . I say he that saith Christ did offer for his owne sins is a blasphemer . Coppin . Is that all you can say , if it be , you were best goe back to Schoole againe , where you learn'd this , and learne some more . Rosewell . I have enough , and that you shall see , if I had but your book here Coppin . Why did you not bring it with you , seeing you can say nothing without book , I said you wanted help , and so 't is true CHAP. VII . Of Christ , the Resurrection from the first Adam to the second , proved , with the manner how , and the time when , what body it shall arise , and from what death ; also how it was signified , by what , and when . ROsewell . He that from Scripture doth labour to perswade men that there is no Resurrection of the body to be exspected , and that no body shall be raised at the last day , he is a perverter of Scripture , and a venter of damnable errors , but you are one , ergo . Coppin . I denie your minor , therefore prove it . Rosewell . I prove it thus , 1 Cor. 15. That as Jesus Christ was raised from the dead , so all they which have been , are , and shall be , shall be raised up at the last day , which you denie . Coppin . I doe grant the Resurrection of the body , and doe not denie it , though you say I doe . Rosewell . You did denie that the words in Job did signifie any Resurrection of the bodie ; and also that in 1 Cor. 15. which I can prove . Coppin . Is that Resurrection a mysterie , or no mysterie ? Rosewell . Yes , a great mysterie , and such a one as I do believe you do not know . Coppin . If you do know , pray declare it . Rosewell . I am not minded to declare it to you at this time . Coppin . Then I will tell you what it is . Friends and Brethren , I do own a Resurrection according to the Scriptures , and such a Resurrection as you all must partake of before ye can see the Kingdome of God , 1 Cor. 15. There is a Resurrection spoken of by the Apostle , which is the Resurrection of Christ , and of our rising in and with him , from the state of the first Adam , to the state of the second Adam ; but there were some then , as well as now , that did think the Apostle had meant carnallie the rising again of the same bodie of flesh and bones , and therefore did ask the question , with what bodies they shall arise , not knowing what the Dead was , nor the life it should be raised to , and how God giveth it a bodie as pleaseth him . Now to prove this Resurrection , Christ saith , I am he which was alive , and was dead , and am alive again , and lives for evermore . Rosewell . Do you hear , he saith Christ was alive , and dead . Coppin . There is nothing can be said to die , but first it must be alive , nor made to live , but it must first die : Now Christ is he which was alive , was dead , and is alive again ; the first that was living , and the last that lives . In John 11. 21. Martha comes to Christ , and saith , Lord , if thou had'st been here , my Brother had not died : Christ said , Thy Brother shall rise againe : I know , said Martha , he shall rise at the Resurrection , on the last day : Jesus said unto her , I am the Resurrection , and the Life , he that believeth in me , though he were dead , yet shall he live , and he that lives and believes in me shall never die , Believest thou this ? Now she had Faith to believe that he was Christ , the Son of God , but could not believe the truth of her Brothers Resurrection in Christ : therefore did-Christ blame her , saying , Had'st thou but believed , thou should'st have seen the glory of God , John 11. 40. Now if Christ be the Resurrection , and the Life , then there is nothing in this Resurrection , but what is himself , for he is the dead raised , the raiser of this dead , and the life raised too , as he saith , I am the Resurrection , and the Life . Now take notice that I do not denie any thing of Christ all this while , but do advance him , and also our Resurrection in him , as the Scripture saith , We are raised up together with him , to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus , and this is the mysterie of the Resurrection , which you say is a great mysterie . Now saith the Apostle to those carnal enquirers that knew not this mysterie of the Resurrection , but asked with what bodies they should arise , Thou fool , saith the Apostle , that which thou sowest is not quickned , except it die , and thou sowest not that body that shall be , but bare grain , it may chance of wheat , or some other grain , so it is not , saith be , the same body which thou sowest that is raised , but God giveth it a body as pleaseth him . And why then , say you , that the same bodie shall be raised again ? Now Paul to prove this spiritual Resurrection , tells us , that there is one glorie of the Sun , another glorie of the Moon , and another of the Stars , and one Star differs from another Star in glorie ; so also is the Resurrection of the dead , it is sown in corruption , it is raised in incorruption ; 't is sown in dishonor , it is raised in glorie ; it is sown in weaknesse , it is raised in power , and all in us , that I may know him , saith Paul , and the power of his Resurrection , and the fellowship of his sufferings , being made conformable to his death , if by any means I might attain unto the Resurrection of the dead , for which I presse forwards , saith Paul : So that this Resurrection is to be within you , and you are to know it while you live in this bodie , for it is your rising from faith to faith , from glorie to glorie , as from one administration of God to another , Behold , saith Paul , I shew you a mysterie , we shall not all sleep , but we shall be changed ; that is , changed from the state of the first Adam , to the state of the second Adam , and so he tells us , It was sown in Adam , it was raised in Christ , it was sown a natural body , and it is raised a spiritual body , even as you see your change , for the first man Adam is of the earth earthy , a living soul , the second is the Lord from heaven , a quickening spirit , and as is the earthly , so are they that are earthly , and as is the heavenly , so are they that are heavenly ; wherefore examine your selves , and you will now find it so , for you are all of you either in the state of the first Adam , or in the state of the second Adam , and your change is from the first to the second , that as you have born the image of the earthly , so you shall bear the image of the heavenlie , for there is a bodie natural , and a bodie spiritual , all which are proper to us in this life : And thus Paul tells us of the Resurrection in a mysterie . Now take notice that I do not denie any Resurrection in all this , which by any man may be proved , but I do declare to you the mysterie of this spiritual Resurrection , which I know , and which you say is a mysterie : Secondly , consider the death you are to be raised from , and that is the death that all men died in the state of the first Adam , and do still die , by reason of sin , from which death all shall be raised to life in Christ , the second Adam : Now the wages of sin is death , and that death which sin doth bring on man , is the same death that Christ doth raise him from , For you who were dead in sins and trespasses , hath he quickned , and if ye be risen with Christ , seek the things which are above , where Christ siteth at the right hand of God , which is spoken in the Presentence , and not in the Future , and cannot be meant of the rising of our corporal bodies , after laid in the grave , which I question whether those that talk so much of that , do yet know this spiritual Resurrection , which I hereby declare to you all ; and if any one can tell us of another Resurrection of the same body of flesh , blood , and bones again as it was , let him declare that , as I have declared this , for I denie nothing which by any other can be proved , but the Scripture saith , That flesh and blood shall not inherit the Kingdome of God , neither doth corruption inherit incorruption ; therefore blessed and happy are all they which have their part in this first Resurrection , for of such the second death hath no power , but they live and raign with Christ . Thirdly , As there is a bodie to be raised , so there is also a bodie to be destroyed , and that is the bodie of sin and death , which is to die , and no more to live , For if Christ be in you , the body is dead , because of sin , but the spirit is life , because of righteousnesse , that is of Christ : And in Rom 6. there is a Resurrection from sin , to newnesse of life , spoken of by the Apostle , that like as Christ was raised from the dead , by the glorie of the Father , even so should we walk before him in newnesse of life ; for if we have been planted together in the likenesse of his death , we shall be also in the likenesse of his Resurrection , knowing this , that our old man is crucified with him , that the bodie of sin might be destroyed , that henceforth we should not serve sin . Rosewell . 2 Tim. 2. 18. But there were false Prophets among them , as there are false Teachers among you , which say , the Resurrection is past already , and so bring in damnable errors to overthrow the saith , and we see there were some in the Apostles daies which did deny a corporal Resurrection . Coppin . Do you instance that Scripture as to a corporal Resurrection , which speaks nothing of it , you do add to that Scripture ( the word corporal ) and you know the punishment of him that addeth thereto , or diminisheth therefrom . Again , I do not say the Resurrection is past already , for it is not yet come to you , nor many more , therefore your Scripture is to no purpose against me ; for I say , it is to come , as well as alreadie come , and that it shall continue until the Day of Judgment be ended , or till all that shall be , are raised , and set free in this spiritual Resurrection , from death , hell , or the grave , in which they lie imprisoned and buried , by reason of sin ; but the Sadduces , who denie the Resurrection , hold there is neither Angel nor Spirit , and that do not I. Rosewell . I shall prove the Resurrection of the body , from Job 19. Where Job saith , He shall see God with those eyes at the last day : 1 Cor. 15. Paul saith , If the dead rise not , then is our preaching vain , and your faith is vain , and you are yet in your sins : And Job saith , Though wormes destroy his bodie , yet in this flesh , in this bodie , shall I see God , which doth clearlie prove a corporal Resurrection , but I shall give him rope till night . Coppin . Add not to the Scripture , for there is no such bodily Resurrection spoken of , as you declare , 1 Cor. 15. 12. so on , pray see friends , Paul doth not speak of a corporal Resurrection , but tells them of the Resurrection of the Dead , and saith , That if Christ be not risen , then all our Preaching and Believing is in vain , and we are yet in our sins : Clearlie intimating , that the Resurrection of Christ doth assure them of their being raised from sin , to walk with God in newnesse of life , For , saith he , you are sown a natural body , but you are raised a spiritual body ; and a spirituall bodie is not flesh and bones , therefore not the same bodie , as you say it is , and would have it to be . Rosewell . There shall be eyes , hands , and feet . Coppin . That there shall be eyes , hands , and feet , you are yet to prove . Rosewell . Job saith , He shall see God with those eyes , and that in this his flesh he shall see God : Againe , the Scripture saith , That they which are alive , and them which are dead , shall be raised , and all of them shall meet the Lord , only this corruptible must put on incorruptible , and this mortall must put on immortalitie : Again , the bodies of Believers are the Temples of the Holy Ghost , 1 Cor. 6. and the Temples of Jesus Christ , therefore the same bodies shall be raised at the last day . Coppin . You also bring Job to prove a Corporal Resurrection , of flesh , blood , and bones , and that this Resurrection , and seeing God with those eyes , was not to be , till after the death of his visible bodie , as you say ; but I say here is a mysterie ▪ and a spiritual sense to be understood in these words , Job . 19. where he saith , I know my Redeemer liveth , and that at the last day I shall s●e him stand upon the earth ; and though after my skin , worms destroy this body , yet in my flesh shall I see God , whom I shall see , for my selfe , and mine eyes shall behold , and not anothers , though my reins be consumed within me . But to understand this , you must know how he is the Redeemer , and when , also what is meant by the last day , and the earth which he shall stand upon , and what eyes shall behold him , &c. Now his Redeemer was the Lord , and did then live in Job , though he knew it not , & that he should see him at the last day , is a truth , but what this last day was , and the manner how he should see him , that he knew not , till the time came that he saw him in himselfe ; therefore you shall find that Job was then in darkness , and under much affliction , uttering words without knowledg , for which he was reproved , first by the Prophet Elihu , secondlie by the Lord , thirdlie he confest it ; first the Prophet reproved him , Job 33. Chap. 35. 16. Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vaine , he multiplieth words without knowledg , Job 38. 1. 2. Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind , and said , who is this that darkeneth counsell by words without knowledg , gird up now thy loynes like a man , for I will demand of thee , and answer thou me . And so he goes on to reprove Job of his ignorance of God , and in Chap. 40. 3. Job answers the Lord and saith , bebold I am vile , what shall I answer thee , I will lay my hand upon my mouth , once have I spoken , but I will not answer , yea twice , but I will proceed no further , and in Chap. 42. 3. he acknowledges his error and ignorance of God , and answers the Lord , saying , who is he that hideth counsell without knowledge , therefore have I uttered that I understand not , things too wonderfull for me , which I knew not , but now hear , I beseech thee , and I will speak , I have often heard of thee by the hearing of the care , but now mine eyes seeth thee , wherefore I abhor my selfe in dust and ashes . Thus did Job in his life time see the King , the Lord of Hosts , his Redeemer , standing upon , ( and was a conqueror of ) that earth , the first Adam which he first lived in the Image of , till the second Adam appeared , as at the last day of the first Adam in him , which he before said should come , and wa● now come to him , For now doe mine eyes see thee . Rosewell . Pray read a little further , and ye shall find that God saith , his freinds had not spoken right of him , as his servant Job had done ; and again , this cannot be meant of his seeing his Redeemer , for now ●is 〈…〉 ynes and reines was not consumed . Coppin . 'T is true , Job never spoke the things that was right of the Lord , till he said , Now doe mine eyes see thee ; and this his friends could not say , for they had not seen the Lord , as his servand Job had ; therefore , though after his skin wormes had destroyed his body , yet in his flesh he did see God . this skin was the good esteem he had of his own righteousnesse , the pride and glory of his own flesh , which he was stripped of , for boasting in it , and so saith Job , He hath stripped me of all my glory , and taken the Crown from off my head ; and the body that must be destroyed , was the body of sin and corruption which was within him , and is in all men for a time , while they live in the corrupt state of the old Adam , and the wormes are the terrors of the troubled minde , which as Troops of Robbers feeds upon the flesh of the earthly man , and Job had many in his flesh , For my flesh , saith he , is cloathed with Wormes , my skin is broken , and become loathsome , the arrows of the Almighty sticks fast in me , his Archers compasse me round about , and he cleaveth my reins in sunder . Here was the destruction of Jobs body in his life time , all his comforts were taken from him , and all those things were fulfilled upon him , and appeared in him , and yet , saith he , after all this I shall see my Redeemer , and so he did , fo● when through the manifestation of God to him , his soul within him was revived , his knowledge and understanding enlightened , and his reins , with the girdle of saith strengthened , then , saith he , Now do mine eyes see thee , and I am no more my self , but a new man in thee , for now is my change come , therefore cannot be meant of the body after a naturall death , as you say it is . Robison . Of all Religions , this is most damnable , to say there is no Resurrection of the body . Coppin . I denie not any thing which any man can prove to be true , from Scripture . Rosewell . I prove a corporall Resurrection of our bodies , from the example of Christs Resurrection of his Body . Coppin . That was a signe to us of our rising with Christ to a newness of life , both toward God and man . Rosewell . I denie the Resurrection of Christs body to be a signe . Coppin . You say the corporal Resurrection of Christ is no sign , and yet you say againe it doth signifie the Resurrection of our bodies , but the Scripture saith not so , but saith , That like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father , even so we also should walk in newnesse of life , and so will he change our vile bodies here , and make them like unto his glorious bodie , by subduing all things to himself in us , which is the spiritualty and glory of our bodies . Captain Smith . We grant you that . Coppin . Then give me leave , Christ being born of the Virgin Mary , Was it also a signe to us , or not ? Robison . Was it but a signe to us , and no substance . C●ppin . I doe not say so , but I say it was a signe which I prove , Isa. 7. 14. Therefore the Lord himselfe shall give you a signe , behold a Virgin shall conceive and bear a Son , and shall call his name Emanuel . Now what did this signifie , but that as the Virgin did bring forth Christ in our nature , flesh , blood , and bones , so should Christ bring forth himselfe in every one of us , in Spirit and truth , Gal. 4. 14. My little Children , saith Paul , of whom I travell in birth againe , untill Christ be formed in you , not as a bodie , flesh , and bones in us , for that were to make many Christs , as for every man one , but he shall be formed in us in Spirit and power . Rosewell . I doe not believe , but Christ is here said to be a signe , but what is the thing signified , that King Ahaz should overcome his enemies , and that the Scepter should not depart from Juda , till Shilo come . Coppin . That is till Christ come Spirituall in us , or else what benefit is it to us to look back upon the birth and death of Christ as signes , and doe not see the things signified ; For a wicked and adulterous generati●n seeketh after a signe , and never looks on the thing signified , which is the birth , death , and Resurrection of Christ in them , which should all be made manifest in our mortall flesh , and so saith Paul , I doe always beare about in the bodie , the dying also of the Lord Jesus , that the life of Jesus might be made manifest in our bodie , and now doe I rejoyce in my sufferings for you , and do fill up the measure of the sufferings of Christ in my flesh , for his bodies sake , which is the Church , whereof I Paul am made a Minister , according to the dispensation of God , which is given to me for you to fullfill the word of God , even the mysterie which hath been hid from all ages , and now is made manifest to his Saints , to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mysterie , which is Christ in you , the hope of glory . CHAP. VIII . The Mystery of the Trinity in relation to man , of the state of Reprobation , when , how long , and how . ROsewell . I desire you may go on : How is Christ in you the hope of glory ? Coppin . Tell me , what do you mean by Christ , and then I will tell you , how he is Christ the hope of glorie in man . Rosewell . I do mean by Christ the Son of God , the second person in the Trinity , God our All-blessed for ever , he that did take our nature of his Virgin Mother , and doth in our nature sit at the right hand of God , and will come again at the last day to judge the quick and dead . Coppin . I do not denie the three persons , according to the Scripture , but you do denie Christ to be within us , and would subscribe him to a place above our heads , with another person ; therefore I will tell you what the Trinity is . First , there is God the Father that did create all things , and in whom all things live , when yet unknown to man , and that men might know him that is true , he did appear as a son amongst men , to manifest himself to men , and so he is said to be Immanuel , God withus , which is also Christ in us the hope of glory : Thirdly , there is the Holy Spirit , and that is the compleat manifestation of the fulness of all things brought home to mans understanding , wherein God , Christ , and man appears , all but one in one God , as Christ saith , I in them , and thou in me , that we all may be made perfect in one ; and saith he , The Comforter , which is the Holy Ghost , whom the Father will send in my name , he shall come , and teach you all things . Now so long as man is without this manifestation of God , which is Christ in him , he is a reprobate , and knows not God ; but when Christ shall so appear in man to shew the Father plainly , then is there a perfect knowledg of the true God in man , John 14. 20. At that day ye shall know that I am in the Father , and you in me , and I in you , and then know you not but that Christ is in you , except you be reprobates : And now what is a reprobate , but not to have Christ in you , which is God manifest in flesh , therefore , I say , Reprobation is the not knowing of God to be in you , Rom. 1. 28. for because they did not like to retain God in their knowledge , God gave them over to a reprobate mind ; but where there is God manifest in flesh to the knowledge of any , there is Christ , and that man is no longer a reprobate , for then is God said to walk in him , as being no longer still and silent , but is seen and known to him ; as when a man dwells in a house , shuting the windows to him , and will not be seen ; so when God doth not only dwell in man , but also walk in man , discovering himself to man , by opening and leting in the light through the understanding of man , then is Father , Son , and Spirit , all three as one God , dwelling , walking , and manifesting himself in man , For , saith he , I will dwell amongst you , and I will walk amongst you , I will be your God , and you shall be my people . Rosewell . You have confounded the three persons . Coppin . No , I have united them together in their proper places , as all agreeing in one , when as they were three manifestations of that one great and glorious God , Father , Son , and Spirit . Rosewell . It is high time for Magistrates , Ministers , and people to look about them , when such damnable errors are uttered with so impudent a face . Captain Smith . Mr. Rosewell , It is the plain Scripture , I conceive , Mr. Coppin hath given the people satisfaction in those things ; for he saith , that Jesus Christ is in no reprobates , nor in no man , till they know God ; and that where God doth manifest himself to a soul , there is Christ . Rosewell . But Sir , he , I know , doth mean , that there is no reprobates ordained to wrath ; now tell me , will Christ be in them you call reprobates , first or last ? Coppin . There is no man now come to know God , but first he did not know God , and so long he was a reprobate , which that all men are , till Christ be dwelling in them . Captain Smith . Till Jesus Christ be manifested in them , he saith , they are reprobates . Rosewell . But I have a new question , that is , Will Christ be manifest in them all , first or last ? answer that . Coppin . I will give you a plain Scripture for an answer , 1 Tim. 2. 4. 5. Who will have all men to be saved , and come to the knowledge of the truth , for there is one God , and one Mediator betweene God and man , even the man Christ Jesus , who gave himselfe a ransome for all men to be testified in due time , whereunta I Paul am ordained an Apostle , I speak the truth in Christ , and lie not . Rosewell . You see ●e affirms that God will save all men . Coppin . I have answered you in the plain words of Scriptures , which is an answer sufficient ; And Paul saith , He doth speak the truth in Christ , and lies not ; pick what you can out of that ; and of this Gospel truth , saith he , I Paul am made a Minister . Rosewell . You do not say that Christ shall appear in all , but you bring this as a proof ; now no Scripture doth contradict another , now this is meant , he will save some of all sorts of men of places and authority . Coppin . The Apostle saith all , and you say some , who perverts Scripture now , you or I ? Rosewell . You are not to pray for all men , therefore all shall not be saved . Coppin . If all shall be saved that are to be prayed for , then there is none but shall be saved , for prayers is to be made for all men . Rosewell . But the Apostle means all sorts of men , and that some of all sorts shall be saved . Coppin . Then by your own words there is no one whole sort of men in the world left out from salvation , but some of all sorts , and not all of any sort , ( you say ) shall be saved ; and the Scripture saith , all men of all sorts , for both the fulnesse of Jews and Gentiles shall come in , therefore name any of any sort that shall not . CHAP. IX . The sin against the Holy Ghost not forgiven , what it is , who commits it , and when . ROsewell . He that hath commited the sin against the Holy Ghost , that after strong conviction of truth , do fall away , and are perverted , they shall not be forgiven in this world , nor the world to come . and whosoever commits sin is of him , but he that is born of God sineth not , neither can he , for his seed remaineth in him . Rosewell . He that is born of God sineth not , that is , willingly to make a trade of sin , yet in the best of Gods people there is sin . Coppin . Then he that commits sin is of the devill , and shall be destroyed , but if he that commits sin , and is of the devill , be meant of men , there is none shall be saved , if all commits sin , as you say . Rosewell . No , I doe not say so . Coppin . But you do , therefore heare , if he that commits sin is of the devill , as the Scripture saith , and that as you say , all men do commit sin ( for you say in the best of Gods people there is sin ) and that God will destroy the persons of men for their sins commited by them , who is that sinner then in the world , that shall be saved ? and what is that sinner which shall perish ? if you know , declare it , what , and who that sinner is . Rosewell . I doe think there is one in the Pulpit , which doth sin against God , in blaspheming his Name . Coppin . There is one then , but is that all , well , you say I am a sinner , but I hope you think your selfe to be a righteous person , I say then let him that is without sin , cast the first stone , the Scripture ●aith , he hath concluded all men under sin , that he might have mercie upon all , and 't is wel for me that I am a sinner , for then I am sure to have a part in Christ , for he came not to call the righteous , but sinners . Rosewell . If none shall be saved , but the Elect , then all shall not be saved , but it is cleare , none shall be saved but the Elect , when he is revealed from heaven , he will take vengeance on all that know not God , Isa. 27. 11. Also 2 Thes. 1. 7. 8. And indeed the whole Chapter , read and consider it seriously , and be not led away by these Imposters . Coppin . The Lord Jesus is now revealed from heaven in flameing fire , taking vengeance on all that know him not , neither own him in his people , as al unrighteousness of men , which hold the truth in unrighteousness , doe not , and against this the wrath of God is revealed , and not against the persons of men ; yet those men , so long as this unrighteousness is in them , they appeare not as men , yet saved by him , but doe suffer the vengeance and terror of this fierce fiery appearing of God to them , till the enemie ; the devill in them is destroyed , that made them sinners , by commiting sin in them . Rosewell . Take notice he doth deny a general coming of Christ at the last day , in flaming fire , rendering vengeance on the persons of men . Coppin . I do not denie the coming of Christ to render vengeance to whom it belongs , for vengeance is mine , saith the Lord , and I will repay ; therefore I believe some hath it now , and he is come , and doth come and will come , to take vengeance on all that know him not ( and is of the devil ) in me , you , and every man else , and when he is so come to any soul for that work , he will then let them know , that he himself is that flame of fire that will devoure his adversaries , ( to wit ) the bryers and thorns with which we fight against God in the time of our ignorance , persecuting the truth : For what was Paul when Christ came to him , was he not a great persecutor of the Church and people of God in those daies ? and Christ came to him in a flame of fire , to take vengeance on that in him which knew not God ( but had fought against the truth ) saying , Saul , Saul , why persecutest thou me ? and yet he , in that person , after that , lived and Preach'd the Gospel which he once destroyed . French . You had need go and be a School-boy again . Coppin . I am indeed a School-boy now in the School of Christ , and 't were well if you were one there also . French . The Lord stop thy mouth . Rosewell . He doth say the day of Judgement is past already . Coppin . I say it not , but do say that it is come , and coming , and therefore answer me to the former Scripture , which you would passe by , He that commits sin , is of the devill ; for there is yet more to be said to that before we leave it . Rosewell . That is , every one that continues to be of the Devill , he shall be destroyed , and there is whole heaps of them in hell now , and there for ever shall be tormented with fire and brimstone . Coppin . If this be all you know , I will tell you more , He that committeth sin , is of the devil ; and there is no man but doth commit sin , and so long the devil raigns in him ; but when the Lord Jesus Christ doth manifest himself in that man , to destroy the works of the devil , he then binds the devil in that man , disposses●es him of his place , throwes out all his goods and houshold stuff , and sets them on a fire together , according to this Scripture , Mark 3. 27. 28. No man can enter into a strong mans house , and spoile his goods , except he first bind the strong man , and then he will spoile his house . This house is man , the strong man that keeps it , is the devill , ( or man in his strengh ) but when the Lord Jesus Christ , who is stronger then he is come , then is the devill bound , his goods spoiled , and all that mans sins forgiven him . Rosewell . I doe confesse all by nature are sinfull , but all doe not sin in that sense , so that all that hath been said is to no purpose . Coppin . You did say at first , you would make me so ashamed that I should not shew my face here any more ; and indeed all that hath been said by you yet , is little to that purpose . Rosewell . Indeed I did alwaies dispairof making your brazen-face ashamed . Coppin . Then give me leave to proceed , I say there is for a time in every man , the old man living and sining , and also the new man that sineth not , and those are at difference one with another , untill the one hath overcome the other , as Paul saith of himselfe after he was first converted , Rom. 7. 22. I delight ( saith he ) in the law of God after the inward man , but I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind , that I cannot doe the things that I would , for with my mind I serve the law of God , but with my flesh the law of sin , so it is no more I that sins , but sin that dwelleth in me , not the new man , but the old man that sineth . Rosewell . And this you doe affirm to be in every man . Capt Smith . Mr. Coppin , many people desire to know if you speake this of the regenerate state of man , or if it be the state of all men . Coppin . I say this , that all men so far as they are regenerated , doth not commit sin , but the wicked one , which is called the unregenerate part , doth rule in all men for a time , more or lesse , untill he be wholly thrown out , but when the Lord Jesus by manifesting himselfe for that work , doth begin to seize on that wicked part , then the work of regeneration begins , and then man is not all wicked , nor all righteous , but part of both , as the Apostle was , in his first conversion , and so long there is a warfare in man , till the old man be wholly subdued , according to this Scripture , he that is in Christ is a new crature , old things are past away , and all things are become new . Captain Smith . And concerning this , Paul saith , I thank God through Jesus Christ , with my mind I serve the law of God , though with my flesh the law of sin . Rosewell . He speaketh there of a regenerate state . People say , let Mr. Coppin speake . Rosewell . Pray let me speak , you see with what a bundle of words this man hath heaped up a discourse , as that the wicked one in man doth commit sin , and that when Christ doth come , that is but the beginings of his regeneration , and you know that when Christ doth lay hold on any soule , there is a work of regeneration wrought on that man , and this work of regeneration , Christ doth work onely in his people , not in all men . Coppin . It is manifest that all men were , and are , the people of God , though til this work of regeneration is wrought in them , they do not appeare to be of God , but of the devill , having not the knowledg of God within them . CHAP. XI . A briefe hint of generall salvation by Christ , of the people called Jews , Gentiles , and Heathens , &c. that it is the onely doctrine to keep men from sin , and to be assured of their owne salvation , how , and when . ROsewell . The whole Scripture puts difference between the seed of the woman , and the seea of the serpent , and between them that shall be saved , and them that shall be damned , and if the devill should come from hell , and preach a doctrine to bring men to the broad way of destruction , this is the onely thing to make them believe , all shall be saved , and that whatsoever good deeds man doe , can doe them no good , and whatsoever evill deeds they doe , can doe them no hurt . Coppin . You say there is no greater thing in the world to bring men into the broad way of destruction , then to tell men that all shall be saved , and that it is doctrine of devills , therefore shall I goe on , and prove how God will save all men , and destroy onely the seed of the serpent in them , which is no doctrine of devills , but of Christ and his Apostles , which they preached for to call men to salvation from the broad way of destruction , into which they were led by the doctrine of damnation ( or damnable doctrine ) the doctrine of devills , For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world , but that the world through him might be saved , and it is God that justisieth sinners , who the● shall condemn ? Not I , saith the Lord , for I will that all men shall be saved ; and of this , saith Paul , am I made a Minister , I speak the truth in Christ , and lye not , my conscience also bearing me witnesse in the Holy Ghost , that I have great heavinesse for my Brethren , according to the flesh , who are Israelites , and yet ignorant of this mysterie , their own salvation ; 〈…〉 and therefore Brethren consider seriously of the Doctrine of the Apostle in Rom. Chap. 9. 10. 11. First , he goes on and tells them , that though Israel be as the sand in the sea , yet a remnant shall be saved , meaning of the Jewes at that time , to whom the word ( Election ) only belongs , for a very small number then believed , the rest were blinded , yet he tells them it shall come to passe , that in the same place where it was said unto them , Ye are not my people , there shall it be said , Ye are the children of the living God ; what saith the Apostle , though Israel be cut off for a time , hath God therefore cast away his people which he foreknew , God forbid ? God hath not cast away his people for ever , though at this present time there remains but a remnant , according to the Election of grace , that is now , saith he , but doth not tell them it shall be alwayes so , but to the contrary he affirmes , for the holy seed was still in them , though they were blind and saw it not ; and of this he would not have them ignorant , that blindnesse in part is happened to Israel , until the fulnesse of the Gentiles be come in , and so saith he , ( which said before a remnant should be saved , saith now ) all Israel shall be saved ( as it is written ) A Deliverer shall come out of Sion , and shall turn away ungodlinesse from Jacob , and this shall be my Covenant when I take away their sins , for the people shall be all righteous , a little one shall become a thousand , a small number shall become a great number , I the Lord shall hasten it in due time , that it shall no more be said , a remnant , but all Israel shall be saved , yea , Jewes and Gentiles , bond and free , all have been baptized into Christ , and shall be saved by Christ , who is all , and in all ; And the Heathen also hath he given to his Son Christ for an inheritance , and the uttermost parts of the earth for his possession , to be possest by him , but of the times and seasons , Brethren , I would not have you ignorant , for he comes as a Thief in the night . And whereas you say , that this Doctrine of Salvation to all men gives men liberty to sin , I tell you no , for when once this love of God , which is so free to all men , hath appeared to my soul , thy soul , and any soul in the world , it will keep him from the liberty of sining , and bind him fast to the liberty of Christ , as it is written , The grace of God , which brings salvation to all men hath appeared ; what to do , to give them liberty to sin , no ; but doth teach them to deny all ungodlinesse , and worldly lusts , and to live soberly and righteously in this present world ; no more according to your own wills , but the Lords will , for now they are in the power and hands of the Lord , and he doth act them which way he please for his own glory , and their good in him , and then what art thou , O man , that judgest thy Brother , thou therein judgest the Law by which he is kept ; and thou art not then a doer of the Law , but a Judge ; for man cannot do any thing of himself , but by that Law which he is kept , and therefore all men are to say , If the Lord will , we shall do this or that , for the Law of love , which is in Christ , constrains men to that which is good , from that which is evil . And therefore to the contrarie of what you say I declare , that by your preaching of wrath , hell , and damnation , to poor souls that are weak in the faith , it doth but cast them down from the knowledge of the love of God , through which they should s●● themselves saved , and they can never see the love of God in Christ after that way which you preach unto them , and therefore pray see friends , who say they Preaches Gospel , know what Gospel 't is they Preach ; the Apostle saith , The Gospel which they preach , is not after mans wisdome , but by the demonstration of the spirit , and of power ; For we Preach , saith he , Christ crucified , to the Jewes a stumbling block , and to the Greeks foolishnesse , because they know not the mysterie of godlinesse , which is Christ in them , the wisdome of God , and the power of God ; and we preach peace on earth , and good will towards men , and to God , glory in the highest : And O how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of those which bring tydings of peace , and say to Sion , thy God raigneth , thy warfare is accomplished , and thy sin is pardoned ; and this Gospel did Christ preach , and command to be preached to every creature under heaven , as the work of his Ministerie . Rosewell . He doth maintain the salvation of all , and doth condemn others which do not so , you may plainly see now how you are misled , and I hope you are all abundantly satisfied in it ; if it were not to give satisfaction to some , I would not have put my self to this trouble to have discoursed with such a man , in whose forehead Blasphemy is written in Capital Letters , he that runs may read it . Coppin . Seeing you cannot tell how to call me bad enough , as you think , therefore I will give you a little more before you go , and catch what you can , that is , that no man can be assured of his own salvation , except he see the same salvation in the same Saviour , for all men , as well as for himself , which is to love his Neighbour as himself . Rosewell . Better and better . Coppin . For Jesus Christ did die and pay a price for all men , one as well as another , and if there be but a few men saved , and the greatest part damned to eternitie , as you say , there is , what assurance then can there be to any , for all were sinners , and if there were but one man to be so damned , how could any man assuredly know ( except he believe this ) but that he himself might be that one man . Rosewell . Blessed be God which doth so discover him to us , his Elder Brother which went before him was more subtil , not to discover those Blasphemies which lay hid in him , but in you , the devil appears in his colours ; and in his Stage-play terms . Coppin . I have not yet said any evil of you , though you are pleased to raile at me for speaking the truth freelie . Rosewell . It is not judging nor railing , to call a Blasphemer a Blasphemer , though I will not deny but there may be something spoken of a weak Brother ; and also that Scripture in the Rom. by you mentioned , when he speaks of a remnant , and that they shall be grafted in again ; and whereas you say , that all shall be saved , Matth. 22. 14. Many are called , but few are chosen . I am sorry I must be so brief , but straightened in my body ; the truth is , his lungs are better then mine , but I hope must here are satisfied in what hath been here stoken . Robison . We are well satisfied ; pray God keep us from this damnable Doctrine . Coppin . It remaines damnable to all that believe it not , for though it be a truth , that God will save all men , yet till man doth see this salvation within him , there is no satisfaction unto him , but he still remains only as one called with the multitude that shall be saved , but being not yet chosen , he remains as one unsaved ; until his time appointed comes , that he see himself saved , which will then be his choice or election to the faith by the spirit of adoption , so that many are called , but few are chosen , but the called shall all be chosen , for it is written , That the promise of salvation is to all that are afar off , and as many as the Lord shall call , Acts 2. 39. CHAP. XII . Of the Day of Judgment , and all mens coming to it , with the time when , the place where , the manner how , the matter judged , and for what . ROsewell . You say we preach damnation , and so do cast men downe , we do preach it to such as do go on in their sins ; and live and die in their sins , that hell is their portion ; and as for thousands which die in their infancie , the corruption of their natures is enough to damn them in hell to all eternity , I can but hint at those things , indeed if we did preach only damnation we were too blame , but when we do Preach comfort to Believers , we preach damnation to unbelievers , as Christ saith , He that believeth shall be saved , and he that believeth not shall be damned at the Day of Judgement , Rom. 2. who after their hardnesse of heart , treasure up wrath against the day of wrath , and revelation of the righteous judgment of God , who will render to every man according to his deeds , to them that are contentious , and obey not the truth , indignation and wrath , tribulation and anguish , to every soule of man which doth evill , to the Jew first , and also to the Gentile . Coppin . Sir , you have run through many words of wrath and judgment , but nothing is proved by you , what it is , nor when it is ; and whereas you say , there is a day of wrath and judgment , I doe acknowledge the same , and that it is both to Jewes and Gentiles , and all that obey not the truth ; but whereas you also say , that some Jewes which are dead already shall not be grafted in againe I denie , for the promise that they should come in , was then made for all the stiff-necked Jewes , that were also then , and before living , though their bodies fell in the wilderness , yet their Spirits are living , and shall again be grafted in , When the earth shall be full of the knowledg of God , and though you from Rom. 2. doe say they are under wrath , you doe not from thence prove that it shall abide on them , for ever and ever ; now I say , that that man which is under wrath must there remaine , till the Lord Jesus doth come to him , to manifest himselfe in him , to turne his wrath away from him , and so judg that in him for wrath , which is for wrath , and that for mercy which is for mercy ; but because you have not declared what this day of wrath and judgment is , I will , for a day of judgment there is , in which all men shall be judged , and receive according to their deeds , and if there be more then one day of judgment which I shall shew you , then doe you declare it , for I denie nothing which can be proved by any man from Scriptute . Now the Scripture saith there is judgment appointed for all men , as 't is written , It is appointed for all men once to die , and after that the judgment ; and this death is adying into sin and trespasses , for the wages of sin is death , which none can be delivered from , but by judgment , and the Lord Jesus is to be the Judg of all , For the Father judgeth no man , but hath commited all judgment to the Son , who will not judg by the sight of the eye , nor hearing of the eare , but will judg righteous judgment ; and Christ saith , for judgment am I come into this world , and now , saith he , is the judgment of this world is come ; now shall the Prince of this world be cast out ; and as it began then , so it is not ended yet , but goeth on still , and shall continue so long as there is any sin , death , hell , or devill , to be judged , or condemned in man ; And that every eare and eye , that heares and sees any thing besides Christ , shall be made deafe and blind , and every mouth that speaks any thing besides Christ the truth , shall be stopped , that so the Lord himself may be all in all , and saith Peter , The time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God , and if it begin at us , what shall the end be of them that obey not the Gospel of God ? why , all shall come to judgment , every man in his order , at the time when the Lord shall appear unto them . And this is not a visible temporal Judgement on the bodies of men , but invisible in the hearts of men , which is the Temple unto which God will come and dwell in , for the Lord , whom you seek , will suddainly come to his Temple , and there sit as a Refiner and Purisier of silver , and will take away his drosse and tyn , and try them as gold is tried , therefore he saith , he will send the Spirit , and he shall convince the world of sin , of righteousnesse , and judgement , and when the Lord doth so come to judgement , then shall everie mans book be opened , and they shall be judged according to the things written in their books , which books are the consciences of men bearing witnesse , either for them , or against them , accusing , or else excusing one another , in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ , according to his Gospel ; and this is the manner of the Lords proceeding to judgement in the day of the Gospel , which to the Lord is but as one day , though thousand of years . Head a Lawyer said , This is damnable Doctrine , what need a coming to judgement , if all shall be saved , you are a Blasphemer , and destroyes the Fundamentals of Religion by your impudency . Coppin . Though all men shall be saved , yet not without judgment : But Sir , I perceive you are a Lawyer , & it may be hath a fee given you , then plead Law for it , the Gospel allowes of none , but though you may know the Law better then I , it may be I may know the Gospel as well as you , and you see I have declared a judgement according to the Gospel , and have proved it all along , if you understand it , and if any man can prove any other Judgement day besides this which I have proved , let him declare it . And I also prove , that this Judge the Lord Jesus doth accuse no man , but he that is the accuser of the brethren , is the devil , who shall be cast out , and his accusation made void , for man , while he lives under the law , lives under wrath , and is accused by the law , but when the Lord Jesus comes to any soul , as a Judg , to fulfill the law , he declares himself accused and condemned for that soule , and so frees him from the law , and quiteth him of the accusation , and now Christ accuseth not , but Moses ; and yet , saith he , You will not come to me , that you may have life , but though you receive another that comes in his own name , father then me that comes in my Fathers name , yet doe not think that I will accuse you to the Father , no , but there is one that doth accuse you , even Moses , in whom you trust . Rosewell . John 5. is meant , Christ will not accuse them to the Father ; yet Christ doth accuse them which doth oppose his Gospel , and will doe it , and will throw them to the nethermost hell , at the last day , in everlasting torment , soul and body ; and therefore I desire you all , as you tender the glory of God , and the good , of your own souls , have a care of such a dangerous blasphemer as this , which in such a high nature doth blaspheme the great God of heaven , Isa. 26. Thy hand is lifted up , and they will not see it , but they shall see it , and be ashamed for their envie at the people ; the fire of thy enemies shall devoure their persons at the last day . Coppin . You may apply this unto your self , for your own envie that hath appeared at this , and other times ; but doe you bring this to prove destruction of persons eternally at the last day , which is no such thing here meant . Rosewell . I doe confesse a Spirituall Judgment Day . Coppin . That have I affirmed all this while , for the which you crie out against me to be a blasphemer , &c. Rosewell . But there is another day of judgment , which will be at the last day . Coppin . Pray doe you prove a second day of judgment , you have confest the first , which I proved to you , and I denie not your second , if you can prove it to me also , prove the destruction of persons , as you say . Rosewell . Faelix did tremble when he did heare of judgment to come . Coppin . This judgment was to come on him then , and is to come on all now , on whom it hath not yet appeared for the destruction of sin . Rosewell . It doth appear there is no such judgment known unto you , Jude 15. but the Lord will come visibly , as a man from heaven , and all his Saints with him , to sit upon his Throne , and to execute judgment , and to convince all that are ungodly . Coppin . You should declare where this place of Judgment is , and when it is , and what this Throne is on which he sits . Rosewell . I will not tell you , you shall know it when it doth come , and therefore cease to pervert Scripture . Coppin . I do not at all judg or condemn you for speaking your judgment in what things you know , though you do judg me , for you can but speak as you have received , according to your measure , and so do I. Rosewell . He doth mainly labour to deny any Judgment to come on any mans person . Coppin . I tell you again , I denie nothing which you can prove to be true , it is your work now to prove this Judgment Day you speak of , as I have done mine . Rosewell . There is a Hell of fire and brimstone for ever . Coppin . You would do well to prove what you mean by it , now before this people . Rosewell . You have here said that Christ was a sinner . Coppin . You said these words , I never said them , but said , that he was in himself holie , harmlesse , just , and good . Rosewell . You said the nature he did take was sinful , and you have denied the Resurrection of the Body , and do affirm , that all men shall be saved . Coppin . It is a sign there is no more in you to declare , because you go over with the same things again , and again ; But how are you assured of your own salvation , tell me that ? Rosewell . I do believe he hath saved me , and that one day he will do it . Coppin . If he hath done it alreadie , then it is no more to do , and it is better to believe that you are saved , then that you shall be saved . CHAP. XIII . The practise of Magistrates and Ministers discovered , how they one uphold another , to serve not the Lord , but themselves . ROsewell . I hope those things need not proof , they are so clear to every intelligible man , I desire that we may be all humbled for these things , and I desire to have nothing to do any more with this man , except I shall be called to it before a Magistrate , or the like , and then I shall labour to the utmost to vindicate the truth of God , and in my Preaching and Catechistical Exercises , I shall endeavour to meet with those damnable errours of his : And by the way , take notice of those which do sow errours among you , they be such as serve not the Lord Jesus , but their owne bellies , Rom. 16. 17. 18. Mark them which cause divisions , and avoid them . Now when men shall teach a Doctrine contrary to what the Church of God hath received in all Ages , and contrary to the judgment of hundreds in this place , which are juditious , we may account him a Blasphemer , he hath blasphemy in his forehead , woe be to them which testifie lies in the name of the Lord . Coppin . I shall return this back on your own head , and thereby kill Golia with his own Sword , from these words , Rom. 16. Mark them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the Doctrine of Christ , and avoid them , for they are such who serve not the Lord Jesus , but their own bellies . Now let the people judge who they are , for which consider , that the Doctrine of Christ is a Doctrine of unitie , love , joy , and peace , amongst men , but some there are who have caused divisions , and offences , railings , and revilings , at this and other meetings , now and at other times , contrarie to this Doctrine of Christ , and who those are , I appeale to the people , as for my part , I know no man I have wronged amongst you , nor spoke evil of any , but in love to the Lord , the truth , and your soules ; I have onelie defended my selfe in the truth I delivered , it being so failed against . Rosewell . Capt. Smith , Let 's conclude , there will be no end . Coppin . I must speak a little more , therefore observe , they which preach for hire and lucre of worldly profit , serve not Christ , but their bellies , not the people , but themselves ; See Micah 3. 5. 6. 7. Thus saith the Lord , concerning the Prophets , that make my people erre , that bite with their teeth , and cry peace , and he that puteth not into their mouthes , they even prepare warre against him , therefore night shall be unto you , that you shall not have a vision , and it shall be dark unto you , that you shall not divine , and the Sun shall goe downe over the Prophets , and the day shall be dark over them , then shall the Seers be ashamed , and the Diviners confounded , yea , they shall all cover their lips , for there is no answer of God : The Prophets are the Priests , the Seers are the Magistrates , and those joyn together , one to keep up another , till the one shall be ashamed , and the other confounded , and so fall together . Rosewell . But read the 10. 11. verses , They build up Sion with blood , and Jerusalem with iniquitie , the Heads thereof judg for reward , and the Priests thereof teach for hire , and the Prophets divine for money . Coppin . Truly I need not read it , you have read it for me , and it fits you well , the Seers and Heads thereof judg for reward , and you the Priests divine for money , and if they will not pay you , then prepare warre against them , sue them at the Law , have them before Magistrates , and cast them into prison , as you doe , and have done , and so serve not the Lord , but your own lusts , and for ten pound advancement in one place more then in another , you will sell any people , or Parish ; for which take one Scripture more , 2 Pet. 2. 1 But there shall be false teachers among you , who privily shall bring in damnable heresies , denying the Lord that bought them , ( ye them that denie him ) and bring upon themselves swift destruction , and many shall follow their pernicious wayes , by reason of whom the truth shall be evill spoken of , and through covetousness shall they with fained words , make merchandize of you ( sell you for profit ) whose judgment of long time lingereth not , and their damnation slumbereth not , and are not those your Tythe-mongers , I shall leave to you all to judg ? French . Doe you speak this by me , we have seldom halfe our Tythes paid us . Coppin . What are ye guiltie ? Do your conscience accuse you ? I name no man , but the Priests teach for hire , they bear rule by reason of their means , and let the people , who love to have it so , judg who they be . Rosewell . I blesse God I am guiltlesse of this thing , of preaching for hire ; but you do see many errours have been broached here , let me crave liberty for one word of prayer , and I have done . DISPUTE . IV. Began by William Sanbroke Minister , and carried on by Walter Rosewell Minister , against Richard Coppin , in the Cathedral of the City of Rochester , in the County of Kent , December 13. CHAP. XIV . What is a Gospel Message , and what is not , that damnation to mankind is not eternal , how the Gospel is preached to every creature , by whom , and when . SAnbroke . You know the businesse of this time is to state a question , about the great businesse of Salvation , and Damnation , and I shall fall briefly do the businesse in hand . Question . Whether such persons , meaning the Priests , and namely such of them as tell people of damnation , be evil spirits or no , as you did hint the last day ; I shall now give you the History of this Question : It is a rule in the Schools , that when any one will begin a question , that it is necessary they do first dive into the original and bottom of such a question , to see whether it runs , and to what it tends ; but this is a question I did never know till these times of ours , in this later Ages , in which we have shuffled our selves out of a Church-form , Episcopacy to Presbytery , from thence to Independency , from Independency to Anabaptisme , from Anabaptisme to Seeking , from Seeking to Vniversal Liberty , and so we have lost our selves we know not where : 1. We will see what is meant by Damnation , and that is in the Word , signified to be either temporal or eternal : 2. What is the evil spirit , and that is in opposition to the good spirit , that is the devil : 3. Consider the persons which he doth say are evil , and they are the Priests ; now this word Priests was put into the Original Copy , those are the Ministers of the Gospel lawfully called by God and men , and setled , by laying on of hands , and the Spirit , into a Congregation . Now that Proposition that doth affirm , that the Ministers which do tell people of damnation are evil spirits , he must of necessity be a Blasphemer ; That Proposition that doth say Christ is an evil spirit , that is blasphemy , ergo : For Christ did preach this Doctrine , He that believes shall be saved , he that believes not , shall be damned . Coppin . Your question is far fetcht , and to little purpose , and I shall answer you thus , That those Ministers that do preach the Doctrine of Damnation , telling people they are eternallie damned , are no Gospel Ministers , and do preach from an evil Spirit ; but Christ did not preach this Doctrine of Eternal Damnation to any , for he did preach salvation to all men , and the acceptable year of the Lord , For he came not to condemn the world , but that the world through him might be saved . Sanbroke . Mat. 23. 14. Woe to you Scribes and Pharisees , Hypocrites , how will you escape the damnation of hell , and therefore you shall receive the greater damnation . Coppin . Christ was then a fulfilling the Law , which the Scribes and Pharisees did exercise upon the people , as a burthen too heavie for them to bear , for which several woes of damnation were pronounced against them , and to be fulfilled upon them in that generation ; and Christ speaks not of eternal damnation , but of degrees of damnation , as of greater , and lesser , that should come upon them for their hypocrisie among the people , and their not believing the glad tidings of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God , which Christ told them was to be revealed in them , and which would suddainlie come unto them , yea them in that generation to whom damnation was then threatened ; and they hearing of this , demanded of Christ the time when the Kingdome of God should come , for which they then waited and hoped for , and Christ answer'd and said , The Kingdom of God comes not with observations , neither shall they say lo here , or lo there , for behold the Kingdome of God is within you , yea , within you Scribes and Pharisees , though you shut it up against your selves , and others , which many people also now do , for which their judgment of long time lingereth not , and their damnation slumbereth not , but is so much the sooner , and the greater unto them . And therefore that forenamed place you quoted , to prove the Doctrine of Damnation , cannot be meant of eternal Damnation , since he tells them , The Kingdome of God is within them : And this , saith he , is life eternal , to know God , the true God , and Jesus Christ whom he hath sent ; therefore how doth this prove your Proposition , you say , they were finallie damned , and yet Christ tells them , the Kingdome of God was within them . Sanbroke . Were they Believers , or Vnbelievers ? Coppin . They were then Unbelievers , not knowing the Kingdome of God to be within them , and therefore did oppose it , but your Schools will never teach you this lesson of knowing Christ within you , which will confound all the wisdome and knowledge you there learn , for in the School of men you learn the things of men , but in the Schools of Christ the things of Christ ; and you shall never learn this mysterie of Christ in you , till you become Christs Scholar . Sanbroke . How long doth this Damnation last on them ? Coppin . So long as they do continue unbelievers ? Sanbroke . You do not understand the Text . Coppin . You will never say that I , or any man else , do understand in , but your selves , unlesse they would understand it in your sense , for you would have people learn no farther then you teach them , but God will destroy all the teachings of men . Sanbroke . But if Christ did give his Ministers a Commission to preach Damnation , then it is good and sound Doctrine so to do , and they are not evil Spirits which do it , as you do say . Coppin . But Christ did not give any such Commission to any of his Ministers that he sent forth to preach the Gospel , to preach Damnation , neither did they do it , nor did I say so by them , but by those that run , and were not sent by him , of which I also said somthing to this purpose in a book of mine , called , Truths Testimony , from whence I suppose you had those words , but produce but the book , and I will warrant you there is an answer to it , sufficient to prove it . Sanbroke . Indeed I had one of the books , but I burnt it , but to the Proposition , Christ bids his Ministers preach the Gospel to every creature , He that believes shall be saved , and he that believes not shall be damned . Coppin . But pray mark you , Christ doth bid his Discipies go into all the world , and preach the Gospel to everie creature , which is life and salvation to all by Christ , and not damnation to any , but salvation to everie creature , and he that believes not this Doctrine , hath damnation in himself alreadie ; and this Gospel was to be preached after Christ was risen from the dead , and had compleatlie fulfilled the Law , which before did condemn them : Now , saith he , Go preach that Gospel of peace , and of reconciliation to to everie creature in the world , that God is in me , reconciling them all to himself , for now am I risen to be the life and light of all men , and you are not to preach death and damnation , but that I am come , who is their life and salvation ; and this is their condemnation , that I am come , saith Christ , and they believe it not , or that this Gospel is preached , and men receive it not . And now do I question whether some of you have received this Gospel Commission from Christ yet or no , and do preach the same Gospel , for the same end , after the same manner as they did , for he bids his Disciples preach the Gospel , which will save men , and you preach the Law , which will condemn men ; their salvation by Christ without works , and you damnation without works , they preach it to everie creature , and freelie , and you preach it but to some , and for hire , and so instead of preaching unitie , peace , and love amongst men , you preach division , wrath , and eternal damnation , which is no Gospel message , and such are in no Gospel way , have no Gospel Ministerie committed unto them , and therefore no Commission from Christ to preach . Rosewell . If the Gospel be to be Preached to every creature , then it must be Preached to stocks and stones , for they are creatures . Coppin . Such things are not capable of hearing and receiving the sound thereof , but to every man , to every rationall creature , the Gospel was to be Preached , and is Preached , and the sound thereof hath been heard amongst them , to all the ends of the earth . Sanbroke . The time shall come , that the Gospel shall be Preached to all men , and they shall all heare of this Gospel . Coppin . But when shall they have it Preached say you , I say 't is Preached to all the world already . Sanbroke . I deny it . Coppin . I prove it , Col. 1. 6. The Gospel which we Preach , saith the Apostle , is the same which is come unto you , as it is in all the world , and , saith he , be not removed away from the hope of the Gospel which you have heard , and which was Preached to every creature in the world , which is under Heaven , whereof I Paul am made a Minister ; yea , of that Gospel which was Preached , and which is Preached , which is Christ in you the hope of Glory , Christ the Wisdom and Power of God in every creature , as almost all this Chapter doth testifie . Sanbroke . To what purpose doe you bring this Scripture . Coppin . I bring it to prove , that whereas you say all men should have the Gospel Preached to them , but you know not when , I tell you , it hath been Preached already , is Preached , and will be Preached , so long as there is a God to be manifested , it being as everlasting as Christ , and this I have proved by plaine Text of Scripture . Sanbroke . That which hath been done already , that is not to be done hereafter , but you say the Gospel hath been Preached already to all men , ergo . Coppin . There is nothing done now , nor to be done , but what hath been done already , so saith Solomon , That which hath been , is that which shall be , and there is no new thing under the Sun ; and Christ who is himself the Gospel , and the Gospel-Preacher , is the same yesterday , to day , and for ever ; and upon this Sanbroke gave off the dispute , and Rosewell succeeded . CHAP. XV . The Whore of Babylons rage , with her names of blasphemy against the truth , her seat and work discovered . ROsewell . I am sorry I must take my learned Brothers place , for I did not come here to day to speak , but to be a hearer , nor shall I desire to enter into discourse any more with this man , except the Magistrates shall call me to it , it is to no purpose , he doth but insinuate into the people , to get a party for himself , therefore as a Minister of Jesus Christ , I desire to give the people satisfaction to all that love the truth : I could say much more for my learned Brother , and I do pity him that his strength failed him , if he had his lungs and his ears as this man have , he would be able to deal with him , but I thank God I have another opportunity to speak to the people . Coppin . You will rail now as you did before , and that is all you can say . Rosewell . I do not speak to you , I speak to the people , and to the Magistrates and Officers of the Souldiers , if they will give me leave , to speak to something which slipped without answer the other day , when as he had most falsly introduced many places of Scripture , and wrested them notoriously to serve his own turn , to prove that all should be saved , tag and rag , and all , then he goes on to affirm that this Doctrine of the love of God , is the onely means to keep people from sining , and to provoke to an holy walking , and if I do not overthrow this , then I desire never to be believed more , and though God can cast both body and soul into hell , yet he tells you , that God will destroy no mans person , but their sins that onely shall be destroyed , this Doctrine is quite against the whole bock of Scripture , from the beginning to the end , there are some said to be beloved of God , and some hated , Jacob have I loved , and Esau have I hated , this is spoken of persons ; indeed the Doctrine of the love of God in Christ is excellent to some , but not to be preached to all , but to onely the vessells of mercy ; but now to say that God hath an equal love to all mankinde , one as well as another , tag and rag , to unbelievers , as well as believers , to them which never had the Spirit of Faith and of Grace , to tell an Adulterer and a Drunkard , that notwithstanding his whoredomes and drunkennesse , yet he shall be saved as well as the best , this is abominable doctrine and blasphemy against the true meaning of the Holy Ghost in Scripture , and is no better then the doctrine of devils ; and we have another sort of people which come not far short of this man , namely , the maintainers of Vniversal Redemption , for if all be redeemed by Christ , undoubtedly all must be saved ; but I have done , only one word more . Coppin . Pray Sir let me speak as well as you , for though you said you would not direct your discourse to me , yet exspect an answer from me . Captain Smith . Let him have done , and we will promise you to speak . Rosewell . This man did say the last day I was an enemy to the State , the more to insinuate into the hearts of the people ; I do believe it will be taken notice of by some in this present Government , that it will be much to their dishonor , to discourage a faithful godly Minister , and to countenance such a Blasphemer , who is an enemy to the States , by his Preaching Blasphemy , Acts 17. 10. 11. I may say to you , as Paul did to Elimos the Sorcerer , Wilt thou cease to pervert the Word of God , and the waies of God . Coppin . Friends and Brethren , this man said he had nothing to say to me , and yet his whole discourse hath been of me , and raising against me , but I know from whence all railings and revilings , and the calling of truth blasphemie doth proceed , in Rev. 17. 3. You shall read there of a woman siting upon a Scarlet-coloured Beast , full of the names of Blasphemie ; this woman , is that Whore of Babylon , the Mother of Harlots , siting on this Beast , as on many waters , decking and triming her selfe with mens pretended forms of Religion , having her mouth full of the names of Blasphemie , calling all things blasphemie and heresie which is not in her way , and like her self , and this hath been in all Ages her work , to advance her own honor , pride , and self righteousnesse , above the truths of the Lord Jesus , in which truth is unitie , peace , and love towards all men , but in this Whore there is no such thing , for from whence hath all those divisions , railings , and persecutions risen , but from this Sea of troubled waters on which the Whore siteth , for in her was found the blood of the Saints , and the blood of the Martyrs of Jesus , which hath alwaies suffered under this notion of blasphemie , and so the carnal world , and blind righteous Scribes and Pharisees said of Christ , that he was a Blasphemer , a mad-man , a devil , nay , the Prince of Devils ; and great Deceiver of mankind , and why hear you him , said they , and so he was put to death as a Blasphemer and Deluder of the people , though in his mouth was found no guile ; but because by his Doctrine the people were drawn away from the world to believe in him , yet in all this you do not find that Christ nor his Apostles thus suffering for the truth , did ever rail against any of them that were instrumen●s of their sufferings , for they did well know , as I do , through the wisdome of Christ , that all men did speak and act as they knew , and were acted , and so left them and all things to him , who would glorifie himself in all things that himself doth . And whereas he was pleased to say I would be found an enemie to this present Government , let any man judge what I have spoken or acted at any time against this present Government , but I shall prove that he hath , for he that shall oppose , contend against , or speak evil of any Law , or thing contained in this present Government , he is an enemie to it , but this man Mr. Rosewell doth contend against , speak evil of , and stand in opposition to that freedome and libertie of the people , in the exercise of their Religion towards God , which this present Government doth allow them , therefore is he an enemie to the present Government , which I prove ; for the Lord Protector in his Instrument of Government , signed by him in the Year fifty three , doth declare , That all persons professing Faith in God by Jesus Christ , though they differ in judgement from the Doctrine , Worship , or Discipline publikely held forth , shall not be restrained from , but protected in the exercise of their Faith , and practise of their Religion , so far as it extends not to Popery and Prelacy , nor to the disturbance of the Publike Peace , nor licentious practises : To all which your judgment have extended , and therefore this libertie do you oppose , and speak evil of , as the people all may witnesse . CHAP. XVI . The return of all men home to God by Christ , the broad and narrow way , and who finds it ; that the Doctrine of Gods love in saving all men , is the only means to keep men from sin . AGain , whereas you did declare , that this Doctrine of the love of God to all men , did give way to licentiousnesse and wickednesse , I denie , and this I have before sufficientlie cleared to you in these Disputes , that it is the onlie means to keep them from sin , and this was that which Christ did command his Disciples to declare to all the world for that end , even Gods eternal love in Christ to poor sinners , as the way and means that God had appointed to bring home to him all that were banished from him , according as 't is written , 2 Sam. 14. 14. For we must needs die , and are as water spilt upon the ground , which cannot be gathered up again , neither doth God respect any person , yet doth he devise means that his banished be not expel'd from him ; and this way and means is the Lord Jesus , who was set up from everlasting , to be the way , the truth , and the light , yea , a witnesse , a Leader and a Commander to all people , that when we were enemies to him by wicked works , and so dead in sins and trespasses , yet then did God in his Son reconcile us all to himself , and made us accepted in the beloved Jesus , that as there was a broad way in which all men did fall from God , and did become strangers to God , so there is also a narrow way , and a living way , even Christ himself , in which all men shall come to God again , and indeed there is but few , a verie small number that can finde this way , nay , so few , that it is but onlie one , and that is God in Christ , who is himself , as a Son , the way to himself , as the Father , which none can know or find , but himself , for so it is written , That no man knows the Son , but the Father , nor no man knows the Father but the Son , and he to whom the Son shall reveal him ; and so there is but onlie one , even Christ in all men , that is the way for all men to come to God by . You read of ten Lepers that were cleansed , and but one which did returne to give glorie to God , then said Christ , Where are the other nine ? Now they were all cleansed , and but one that saw it , and he glorified God , and that one was Christ in him that did see it , that gave glorie to God for him , and all the rest that were cleansed , and so there is none but Jesus Christ that can glorifie God in all , or that can trulie pray and give thanks to God for all , for he onlie is accepted of the Father , and all men , as one in him , are accepted of the Father with him , for he that sanctifieth , and they who are sanctified , are all of one , for which cause he is not ashamed to call them Brethren , and that he might gather together in one all things in Christ , of things in heaven , and things on earth ; even in him , and I in them , and thou in me ( saith Christ ) that we all may be made perfect in one . Rosewell . Captain Smith , will you let him go on any further . Captain Smith . We cannot deny him , he will claime a promise for it . Coppin . Hear I beseech you , for I am now declaring the gathering together of all men in Christ to be by him brought home to the Father , and therefore mark what the Scripture saith , I will , saith Christ , seek that which was lost , and bring again that which was driven away , and will bind up that which was broken , and will strengthen that which was sick , and so bring them health and cure , and I will cure them , and will cause their captivity to return , and will build them up as at the first , and so cleanse them from all iniquitie . Now that all men sined , fell , and were lost in Adam , none will denie , because the Scripture saith it ; but that all men that sined , and were lost in Adam , shall again be redeemed and made righteous by Christ , that you call blasphemie , though proved by the same Scripture and let the people judg who perverts Scripture of us two ; Christ tells you , he came to seek and to save that which was lost , then as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive , yea , the same all that were lost in the one , are found in the other ; and the Lord Jesus did declare himselfe to all men for this purpose , and did pray for them which were enemies to him , and had imbrued their hands in his blood , Father forgive them they know not what they do , and my little children , saith John , these things I write unto you , that you sin not ; and if any man sin , we have an Advocate with the Father , Jesus Christ the righteous , who is a Propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world ; and this , saith Paul , is good and acceptable to God the Father , who will have all men to be saved , and come to the knowledge of the truth , woe , but will God have all men saved , and will he save all that was lost ? woe , but man will not have it so , for he would have but some of them saved , though the Lord saith , he will have all ; and now for shame say no more , that Coppin onlie will have all men saved , but say also that the Lord will have all men saved , since the Scripture is so clear for it ; and then Lord who hath resisted thy will , Lord let thy will be done , for of thee , and through thee , and to thee , are all things . Rosewell . He saith all men shall be saved , but doth not know when . Coppin . I say in due time it shall be manifest to all , for there is but the want of faith in men to believe it , which is the substance of things hoped for , and the evidence of things not seen , by which all men are assured , and draw nigh unto God , which in due time shall be manifest to all men . Now if this Spirit of Faith , and faithfull Witness , the Lord Jesus , thus manifest in men for the salvation of their soules , will not keep men from licentiousness , there is nothing will , for which seriously consider the Apostles words , in Titus 2. 11. We were wicked and sinfull , saith he , as well as others , but when the grace of God , which bringeth salvation to all men , had appeared to us , teaching us , that denying all ungodliness , and worldly lusts , we should live soberly and righteously in this present world , speaking evill of no man , for we our selves also were sometimes foolish , disobedient , deceived , serving divers lusts and pleasures , living in malice and envie , and hating one another as well as others , but after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared , not by works of righteousness , which we have done , but according to his mercie he saved us , how , why by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the holy Ghost , and so saith Peter , see that you lay aside all malice , guile , and hipocrisies and envyings , and evill speakings , and as new born babes desire the sincere milk of the Word , that you may grow thereby , if so be you hav● tasted that the Lord is gracions . CHAP. XVII . The complaint of Ministers to Magistrates , against those that Preach without Orders from the Vniversitie , the dutie of Magistrates not to forbid any , but to reprove such complainers . AGaine , you say , you would have men learn and study the Scriptures , but not to Preach of them , but sure that is for feare your trade of Preaching should goe downe , and you to keep it up , will cry out to the Magistrates , to forbid and suppress all that declare any thing of the love of God to their soules , and have not the like Orders from the Universities as you have , concerning which , read Numbers 11. there was Moses a Magistrate of the Lord , and the Lord commanded him to gather unto him seventy of the men of Israell , to assist him in the work of the Lord , and to bring them up to the Tabernacle where they should receive the Spirit , and to prophesie . Now there were two men which did not come up to the Tabernacle as the rest did , but tarried behind in the Camp , and there received the Spirit , and Prophesied , whereof complaint was made to Moses of them saying , Eldad and Medad doe Prophesie , in the Camp , my Lord Moses forbid them ; why , saith Moses , enviest thou , for my sake , I would all the Lords people were Prophets , and that he would powre his Spirit upon them , though they came not up to the Tabernacle , yet having the Spirit , let them prophesie . So now if any man do declare any thing of God , which hath not been at the Universitie , woe , he is immediatelie cried out against to the Magistrate as a blasphemer , to be forbidden , but God is not tied to place nor persons , nor learning , it is not your your Schools will make you Ministers of the Gospel , no , it is the Spirit of the Lord that doth make a Minister of the Gospel , and it was the Spirit that made Christ a Minister , for , saith he , the Spirit of the Lord is upon me , therefore will I preach glad tydings of the Gospel , and as everie man hath received the Spirit , so let them administer without any forbiding . Now you Magistrates , you are set up for the punishment of evill doers , and for the praise of them that doe well , but are you like that godly man Moses , a Magistrate of the Lords , to discern the good which is to be praised , and the evill which is to be punished , and so to doe justice and righteousness , to countenance Godliness , if you were , you would fordid none to Preach that speaks their experience of the things of God , but would incourage all men ; and wish all the Lords people were Prophets , and that he would powre his Spirit upon them , and so like Moses , reprove any that would have them forbid , and then you would appear to be Magistrates of the Lord , as Moses was , and to doe the worke of God as Moses did , for which the Lord instruct ▪ you all . CHAP. XVIII . A childs condition is Christs Kingdome , their coming to him , his hand laid on them , they blessed by him , of his arm to all men , and when . AGaine , there is one thing more , which you have said , and that I must open , That is ; you say that thousands of Children are now in hell for their originall sin , which is a trouble to many people to heare such things asserted , therefore what the Lord may discover to me at this time concerning this thing , that will I declare to you ; That when the Lord Jesus would declare unto his disciples , who were subjects fit for the Kingdome of God , he takes a little child in his armes , and sets him in the midst of them , saying , except you become , as this child , you cannot enter into the Kingdome of Heaven , that is , to become a child in the knowledg of things below Christ , to know no more sin nor divell then a child doth , and to be as meek and as humble , as innocent and as harmlesse as a child is , now Christ tells them , they must be borne againe into a childs condition , that is , to be little . even as nothing in their owne wisdome , and not to know themselves , able to act themselves forth in any thing ; neither in thought , word , or deed , but in all things to be acted by another , even God , and this Spirituall birth , Nicodemus , a Ruler among the Jewes , was ignorant of ▪ saying unto Christ , How can a man be borne when he is old , can he enter the second time into his Mothers womb , and be born , no , saith Christ , not so , but except you be borne of the Spirit , of Regeneration , and the new birth and so become as a little child to know no evill , sin , nor divell , nor any thing of selfe wisdome , knowledge , or righteousness which he was concieved in by that Mother , the flesh , or carnall mind , but to be as one dead in all old things borne by that Mother , and liveing againe in a new life , to behold all things made new in him , and Christ knew that a little child was the fitest subject he could compare a soule unto , whereby he might know himselfe a subject fit for the Kingdome of God , free from all sin . Againe , there were some that brought little children unto Christ , that he should touch them , and his Disciples reproved those that brought them , and Christ said suffer little children to come unto me , and forbid them not , for of such is the Kingdome of God , this Scripture I know is brought by the Ministers to prove the baptizeing of children with water , though I denie it not to them that are free to do it , though here were none of them baptized by Christ , for he baptized not , but his Disciples , and they baptized no children , but onely such persons as would then be under Johns administration of water , which was onely to last Johns time , and then to be made void , and people did thinke then , as some doe now , that unlesse their children did recieve baptisme , they shall not inherit the Kingdome of God , therefore would say , Oh give them that they come for , lest they should die before they had it ; Now , saith Christ , who will forbid a little child that he should not inherit the Kingdome of God , I say let such come to me , for of such is the Lords Kingdom , and they come to me as to their Saviour , their Lord , and Master , therefore forbid them not , though they were never baptized with water , for they are subjects already , fited for the Kingdome of God , as a Kingdome of righteousness , meekness , truth and love , having in them no unrighteousness , as pride , lying , and hatred , but they , like Christ , doe know noe sin , being not borne in sin , till they have the knowledg thereof , and oh that all men were become such children , free from all sin , and so receive the Kingdome of God as a little child . Againe , he took them up in his armes , laid his hands on them , and blessed them , and this he did to let the people know that they are the blessed of the Lord , and that they are within the compass of his armes , as being never out , but always lodging in his bosom of goodness , mercy , love and favour , as being heires of his Kingdome . And of this arme , God saith , all the day long have I stretthed it forth , to a disobedient and gainsaying people , to bring them to this state of a little child , into meekness and love , from sin and rebellion , and when this hand of the Lord shall thus come to be laid on any of you , then shall you be as a weaned child from the brest of your owne haughtie and laughtie Spirit by which you were nursed up into the state of rebellion against God , and of this the Prophet saith , who hath belived our report ? and to whom is the arme of the Lord revealed ? speaking of Jesus Christ , the arme of God , that took from us all our sins and laid upon himselfe , as 't is written , he hath laid on him the iniquities of us all , and by which arme Daniel when he lay with his face on the ground , was raised up upon the knees and palmes of his hands , and from thence to stand upright upon his feet , and when he knew it was by the hand of the Lord , he stood trembling , that is , all things of himselfe trembled in himselfe , when he stood upright in the Lord . Now when this hand is laid on you , and doe but touch you the first and second time , which is the first and second coming of Christ in manifestation to the soule , then shall you stand upright in the Lord , and be for none but the Lord , and saith Christ , feare not , for I have the keyes of the house of David , which is Heaven , and I have the keyes of death and of hell , and I can open , and none can shut , and shut , and none can open , therefore feare none of those things which thou shalt suffer , for behold , saith Christ , I know thy works and tribulation , and the divell shall cast some of you into prison , that you may be tryed , and you shall have tribulation for a time , but be thou faithfull unto death , and I will give thee a Crowne of life , therefore feare nor , for I having the keyes , will not suffer you to be shut up any longer then I please , but will break open prisons , and prison doores , saith the Lord , and all this is done by his laying his hand upon us , and blessing of us , therefore henceforth judg charitably of all men in all conditions ; and no more judge any childe to condemnation that knowes no sin nor Devil , but rather this , that the Lords mercy is over all his works , and will lose nothing of his own . Rosewell . I desire to have no more to do with this man , you see I hope what his aime and end is in all his discourse : You say we would hide knowledge from the people , but I wish all men did know as much of good as I doe , provided I did know no lesse then I doe ; and I have taken a great deal of pains in my private Studies , and publique endeavours , for that knowledge I have , and if I know any easier way , I would spare my paines : You labour to bring all men off from our principles of Religion , therefore know there is many hundreds of able Ministers , and thousands of good Christians , which are furnished with arguments against you , and all the Jesuites in the world , for my part I am not worthy to carry their books after many of them , and I say you are a shame to the world , and the Turks and Papists may laugh at us to see our division in our Church , and I would not have this Auditorie juggled out of their Faith ; and if any man hath given any incouragement to such a Blasphemer as this is , let them be humbled for it , and do so no more , and I shall Preach against it to my utmost endeavour , for he doth overthrow all Ordinances of Baptisme , and Sacraments , which our Antient Fathers have used , which he saith are not necessarie to salvation since Christ ; and so is an enemy to God , Psalme 21. 8. I will end with this , Thine hand shall finde out thy enemies that hate thee , thou shalt make them as a fiery Oven in the time of thine anger , the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath , and the fire of hell shall devoure them . CHAP. XIX . Of Baptism , how man is a fiery Oven , of the fire and fuel that is to be burnt , the Oven cleansed , man living in it , and how . COppin . That which I declare concerning Baptisme ; is that they have no ground from the Lord Jesus Christ , by precept nor example , to baptize with water . Gaman a Anabaptist . Let me speak now a word or two , because you deny all Water-Baptisme . Coppin . Pray let me make an end with one first , and then if you have any thing to say , speak on , but I say Baptisme with water , upon any subject , hath no ground from Christ , whether by example nor command to be used , since the Death of John , being then fulfil'd by Christ ; and yet I denie it to none , whose tender conscience doth desire it , for I am become all to all , that I win them to the truth , as it is in Jesus , through my love to them , and the manifestation of Christ in them . Rosewell . Capt. Smith , Pray let 's have done . Robison . I think you will never have done . Coppin . So far as you speak I must answer , and there is one thing more , therefore pray have patience , for I must answer to this Scripture by him hinted in Psalm 21. 8. 9. Thine hand shall finde out all thine enemies , thy right hand shall finde out those that hate thee ; thou shalt make them as a fiery Oven in the time of thine anger , the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath , and the fire shall devoure them : There is no man so wicked , nor so righteous in himself , but the Lord will find him out , and will make him as an Oven , in which he will kindle his fire ; to burn up the briers and thorns , to wit , mans sins and iniquities which man is full of , and against which the fire of his anger is revealed , that he may devoure them , but not man , for all mans works shall be burnt , and he himself shall be saved , so as by fire , as it is written , Jacob have I loved , and Esau have I hated , though they tumbled both in one bellie , Jacob is the good , even the spirit ; Esau is the evil , even the flesh , and everie one hath this Jacob and Esau within them for a time ; but Esau which is flesh , shall be burnt by Jacob which is the spirit , the flesh shall be destroyed , but the spirit saved , and so saith the Lord , the house of Jacob shall be a fire , and the house of Esau shall be for stubble , and they shall kindle in them , and devoure them , and there shall be nothing left of the house of Esau , for the Lord hath spoken it , and anger is not in me , saith the Lord , against the persons of men , but if they set briers and thorns in my way against me , I will pass through them , and burn them up , by this shall the iniquitie of Jacob be purged , and this shall be the fruit thereof , to take away their sins , that the Lord may dwell therein , and saith the Prophet , I saw the Lord upon his Throne high , and lifted up , and his Train fill'd the Temple , and behold an Angel came with a live coal in his hand , which he had from the Altar , and he laid it on my mouth , and said , Loe this hath touched thy lips , and thine iniquitie is taken away , and thy sin is purged ; so God is said to sit in his Temple man-like , a Refiner of silver , to purge away the dross and tyn , and to destroy all together for ever . But while this fire is a kindling in man , so long is man full of the smoak thereof , that he is not able to look into his own Temple , to behold the glory of the Lord , until his indignation be overpast , and so it is written , the Temple was filled with smoak from the glorie of God , and from his power , and no man was able to enter into the Temple , till the seven Plagues of the seven Angels were fulfilled , and then his wrath being over , the fire being quenched , his sins purged , and the Oven ( man ) being cleansed of all the fuel and the ashes , he shall return into his Tabernacle in peace , he shall visit his habitation , and shall not sin , he shall not be afraid to look into his own heart , but shall possesse himself with joy , and with peace , for all sin and iniquitie shall be done away , and then the Lord alone shall be exalted in his owne Temple man , and man in the Lord , for ever and ever . Captaine Harrison . Is there any man without sin ? Paul saith ; He was compassed with a bodie of sin and death . Coppin . The bodie of sin and death was to be destroyed , and he to be without sin , and though Paul was sanctified and justified in the spirituall part or new man , yet he was subject to sin , so far as he was in the flesh , as all men are , which is still waring against the spirit , till the spirit hath overcome it . Gaman . Let me speak now , &c. Coppin . Let him speak . Robison . We cannot stay , I have no patience . Coppin . Then the Lord grant you patience , if you have none . Captaine Smith . You had better take a day to your selfe , Mr. Gaman . Gaman . Well , I see you Priests are all carnal , and your weapons are not spiritual , seeing you cannot deal with this man , therefore go you and your Priests together . Coppin . If the Presbyterians Sect have done , then Anabaptists may begin , and take your day also , for though you are one against another , yet I see you will both joyne together against me ; and this makes good that Scripture , there 's Ephraim against Manasseh , and Manasseh against Ephraim , but both against Judah ; yet point your day when you will . CHAP. XX . The malicious and illegal proceedings of some Ministers and Magistrates of Kent , against Richard Coppin , in the City of Rochester , with his Commitment to Prison , how , and by whom . THe Disputes being ended , and the Ministers not relieved , but having suffer'd in their principles , and losing many of their Hearers , they to regaine them againe , have with themselves , and some men called Justices of the Peace , Members of their Churches , had several private consultations together , how they might doe to dismisse me from thence of preaching any more to the people , for which , through their false information , they obtained a Warrant against me from the Committee of Kent , but I was then at London , and having notice of it , did neverthelesse appeare to the Warrant , being willing to answer to any thing that should be laid to my charge , being also cleare and innocent in my owne spirit , of any thing that I had said or done contrarie to any Law of God or man , and I being in my lodging at Rochester , on the Eve of the Sabbath at night , intending to preach on the morrow , came an Officer of the Souldierie unto me from Captaine Smith , a Captain of the Companie there quartering , that I should come before him , into whose hands the Warrant was committed , and whose Order was by the Warrant , that I must not preach on the morrow , but to continue his Prisoner till Munday , onlie I had liberty in the meane time to go to my lodging , but the Sabbath being come on the morrow , and the people assembled together at the Cathedral , according to their former custome , I came amongst them , but a Guard of Souldiers being set in the Cathedrall , I preached to the people in the Colledge-yard in the Morning , and in the Fields in the Afternoone , untill we were disturbed by the Souldiers , who did but their duty which they were commanded by the authority of the Justices , Major General Kelsie , and others for that County . On the morrow , being Munday , and twenty fourth of December , the said Major General Kelsie , John Parker , Charles Bowles , and Richard Watson , as Justices of the Peace for that Countie , also Captaine Harrison , and severall Ministers , ( as Informers ) met together in the Crowne-Inne of the City of Rochester , where they examined Witnesses , and received what informations they thought fit against me , in my absence , and having before determined amongst themselves what to doe with me , they sent for me to come before them , where Major General Kelsie , told me , that he had received information against me upon oath , that I was an enemie to the present Power , and of several Blasphemies that I had delivered in the Cathedrall , to the great dishonour of God , and the seducing of many people , for which cause they sent for me : I answered , that for what might be informed against me , I knew not , but I doe know nothing that I have at any time spoke , to the dishonour of God , or against the present Power , but hath ever beene , and still am more for it , then those that doe accuse me : No , said he , you did , contrary to our orders Preach yesterday , though you were forbid : I answer , that I know no Law by which they could , as yet forbid me to Preach any thing of God , that I did know , neither should I be silent so long as I had liberty , and my mouth were open ; then said he , by what authority doe you come to Preach here ? I answer , that I Preach by the same authority , that he himselfe hath pretended to Preach by , which is , by the power of God , and the authority of the present Goverment , and also in this Citie , by the desires of the people , and I Preach not for tythes and yearly maintenance to be setled on me , as the Ministers of England , and of Anti-Christ doth , but in love to the Lord Jesus , and his people , and then the Articles against me being read , which were very many , I desired to know my accusers , and they that had sworne against me , and I to answer to the articles : No , saith Major Generall Kelsie , we shall heare no answer to them at present , and so said all the said Justices , for we shall not judg of the business now , saith they , but what we doe at this time is onelie in order to a triall : I answer , that if they would not heare a answer now , I did not question but whensoever I did answer that by the wisdome and power of God which lived in me , I should be able to cleare my selfe upon them all : No , said the Major Generall , I hope not : I answer , doe you hope not , but if there were in you any true love , you would rather desire that I might , and assist me in it : for ( said I ) where doe you read in all the Scripture , that ever Christ and his Apostles , or any for them , that did ever persecute any for their judgment , or make use of any outward Law therein , but were themselves persecuted by the false Prophets , and enemies to the truth , and the truth doth always suffer , by those that know it not ▪ but said the Major , in the times of the Apostles , there were no godly Magistrates , or Governors , as be now , nor Laws established as we have : I answered , that there were Magistrates then , for the Apostles said , be subject unto the higher Powers ; and there were some that did persecute the truth , as well then as now , for they were brought before Rulers and Governors for the truths sake , as now they be , and as Christ saith , they should be for his Names sake . But said the Major , we are not come here to Dispute with you about those things , for you will word it out till to morrow night , if we let you alone , therefore withdraw the room ; then one Major Browne of Chatham-Dook , who never saw me , nor heard me before in his life , railed against me , and said that I deserved to be hanged , that I was the greatest instrument that ever the Devil had in England : I answer , that an instrument indeed I am , to discover what , and where the Devil is , as an enemie to God , and therefore am I my selfe called Devil , by the Devil ; but being commanded to withdraw the roome , I and my friends that were with me went aside into another room by our selves , and after a while came some Officers of the Souldiers with an order from the said Justices , and horses readie provided to carrie me to prison to Maidstone , which was from thence about nine miles , and where I should be from my friends , that none might come to me ; and amongst those that they supposed were my enemies , upon which some of my friends then present , went unto the Justices , and offered for my Bail thousands of pounds , and whatsoever should be desired , but no Bail would be taken , whereupon I desired before I went , to speak with them my self , they sent me word if I would come alone I might , of whom I demanded a reason why I was sent to prison without a hearing , and no Bail to be taken , the Major General said , they were not to give me an account , upon which I pleaded the priviledge of the Act of Blasphemie , by which they accused me , and that I was not wayes guiltie of it ; I also produced the Instrument of Government , signed by his Highnesse the Lord Protector , how contrarie also to that they had acted against me , whereby it no man professing . Faith in God by Jesus Christ , though differing in judgment from the Doctrine , Worship , and Discipline of other men publikely held forth , yet should not be restrained from , but protected in the exercise of their Faith and practise of their Religion , so as it extended not to Popery and Prelacy , nor to a lice●tious walking , and the disturbance of the Peace , and that all Laws , Acts , and clauses in any Law , Act , or Statute whatsoever , contrary to the foresaid liberty , should be ●ull and void : And now unlesse you can prove me guiltie of the breach of somthing in this Instrume●t of Government , to bring me under those exceptions ( to which Instrument I appeal ) you have nothing to do with me , and therefore what you in this have done against me , is contrarie to the Law of the present Government , yea all Laws of sound reason , and the Scriptures , but your owne wills , but it is not a prison , nor any thing else that you can doe against me that I feare , knowing my selfe cleare both before God and man , from what any one can justly accuse me of , but this I find , that those that are enemies to the present power , and that hate it , are suffer'd to make use of it , unjustly to persecute those , who to their power are the greatest friends to it , and there is none hath more contended for it , so far as our freedome and liberty in the truth hath been protected by it , then I have done , and for that am I a sufferer under it , though contrary to it . And you M. Wise of Chatham , that Preach General Redemption , and as your friend Mr. R●sewell said ( whom you assist here against me ) that if all were redeemed , all must of necessitie be saved , therefore , said he , that your judgment of Generall Redemption was as erronious as those of General Salvation , and you to clear your self , as you thought , of that aspersion , did the last Sabbath day before declare in your Sermon , that though you held General Redemption , yet you did believe that not one of a hundred in all England should be saved . Then said the Major General unto me , Do you know who you are before , methinks you should not dare to be so bold in another mans room : I answered , Sir , I do know , for I am in the presence of God and man , where I am not ashamed to speake the truth , and now is my time to speak , being accused for the truth , and Sir , you were once accused your self for Blasphemie , said he , What is that to you if I were , the Law freed me : Said I , I doubt not but that it will me also , when I come to have Law , in the mean time do you do unto others , as you would others should do unto you : Then said the Major to Captain Smith , Take him away , let him not stay here to retort his words upon us : I answered , that what I speak is the truth , and am not ashamed of it , though others may of what they do . And now Gentlemen , I thank you for what you have done , for in this you will bring much glorie to God , and confusion to his enemies , though which way you know not , but I do , and so farewell . CHAP. XXI . The confidence , joy , and freedome of a Prisoner , for , with , and in the truth ; Christ and his Generation owned , denied , imprisoned , judged , and freed , by whom , and why , of the power , life , and light of truth , most advanced , when most opposed , and how . ANd now my jorneuy to prison , the same night , was with so much joy , and chearfulness , as ever I had in any thing in my life , I seeing the end with the begining , the last with the first , and the first with the last , even God , which is but according to my principle , and the sum of my doctrine , which I always declare to the world ; That if I goe to hell thou art there , if I goe to Heaven thou art there , if I goe to the ends of the earth thou art there also , and thy right hand doth lead me , that is , he is always with me sweetening , and refreshing , making joyfull , pleasant , and delightfull unto me , all times , places , and things , with his presence , for his owne glory and my peace , though with much sorrow to many of my friends , that a prison to me in my cause is a palace , where I sweetly injoy the Lord , my selfe , and my friends , all together in one unconfined Spirit , that in the companie of one I injoy manie , for when I am alone then are all with me , yea you all , in all parts of the world , whose Spirit is my owne , the Spirit life and power of all accompaning of me in the same work it hath done , and is to doe by me , for the perfiting of the Saints for the work of the Ministerie , and for the edifying of the bodie of Christ , till they are all come into the unitie of one spirit , to the knowledg of one God ; in which word , Christ saith , I and my Father are one , he works , and I work , saith Christ , and I am not alone , for the Father is with me , and Christ , when he was in prison , yea , when he descended into hell , injoyed the company of his Father with him , which was a Saviour unto him , and forth of a prison doth our Saviour come , Ah poore prisoners that are in prison , and know not that their Saviour is with them , that makes a prison , a prison unto them . It is written of Christ , that he was taken from prison and ; from judgment , and who shall declare his generation , who can pitie prisoners , but he that hath all pitie , and is prisoner with them , who can shew mercy in judgment , but he that is all mercy , and himselfe under judgment , with those that are judged , this is Christ and his generation , and no pitie , nor mercy is shewed unto them , but by him that is in prison , and in judgment with them , even the Father in Christ , taking pitie of , and shewing mercy to his owne Children , generation after generation ; therefore a poor despised , rejected , cast out , imprisoned generation to the world , is the generation of Christ , for in him is no form nor comeliness . his visage is more marred then any mans , so is his generation , and who will owne it , and declare to be for it , to manifest this generation , but onelie he that can be with all , that can lay downe his life , and take it up againe , nothing of the world , of man , or the nature , in its own outward excellency & glory of righteousness & Religion , will acknowledg it , but make it self a stranger to it , though it be its own flesh , onlie a poor despised scattered seed of the same Generation , that hath nothing , nor know nothing , but the Lord to trust upon , that will own it ; no , it was that seed that men now seek to kill , flay , and burie , and would not have grow or encrease , that did own them when they were in their blood , and yet they will not own him , because they did not know him , He came to his owne , and his own reteived him not , and why was it ? but because he came not to give them a Kingdome of worldlie glorie , riches , and honour , but rather to take it from them , to strip them of all their esteem among men , and to make them denie themselves , the world , and all things therein , to take up his crosse and follow him , but this is a heavie burthen to bear , a wearie step to tread , a narrow path to go , and few there be that find it , this is the burthen that I am made to bear , the steps I am made to tread , and the path I am made to goe , but having alwayes with me the companie of the Lord , I can never faint nor be wearie , but be refreshed , and at rest in the Lord , and so through him become a Conquerour over those things , rejoycing with joy unspeakable , and which is unlawful to be uttered unto men by the Lawes of men , that now let men confine me , banish me , or do what they can unto me , the Lord , in whom I live , will not leave me , nor forsake me ; and now , though my bodie be confined , my spirit is at libertie , contrarie to the will of my enemies , who have sought to deprive me both of companie and comforts , pen , ink , and paper , as they themselves hath declared , to wearie me of my principle , to make me recant my judgement , and to draw the peoples affections from it , but the more by their endeavouring to make good their intentions , the farther off is it from fulfilling , that I freelie forgive them , and leave them to the Lord , who will render to everie man according to his deeds , and bring glorie to himselfe through all things , for the wrath of man shall turne to the praise of God , and by imprisonment , is Truths inlargement , for it shall spring out of the earth , and overflow the refuge of lies , and the Lord will ride prosperouslie because of truth , of meeknesse , and of righteousnesse , that the more you seek to stop it , with the greater currant it will run , till the parched ground is become a poole , and the drie land springs of water , for in the wildernesse shall waters break out , and streams in the Desert , and as fire among thorns , so is truth among the enemies of the Lords people , and the more you seek to quench it , with the greater flames it will burne , till it hath burnt up all the foundations and buildings of men , in their several forms and Religions , that are not founded upon Christ , the Chief Corner Stone , and this will be a Chaos and confusion , and an end of the world to men . And now what are you ? and what do you doe ? when you seek to imprison or banish this truth away from you , which you know not , and to stop those cleansing floods which the Lord hath opened in drie places for you , and to quench those fierie coales which the Lord hath kindled amongst you to refine you , you do but add a greater encrease to the truth , for all that which is ungodlie , selfish , and wicked within you , that hath opposed the truth , shall be imprisoned by it , and drowned with it , yea , it shall be burnt with the fire , and melted with the heat , until all be consumed , and you dissolved into the nothingnesse of all things below God , where you are all lost , and you again swallowed up into his own Almightinesse , where you are found in your true and everlasting Centre , that sends you forth , and takes you in at his pleasure . And this is the begining and end of the world , and of all your fighting against the truth , to be lost , and to be found , to be , and not to be , and therefore look about you , you that talk so much of the end of the world , when Christ shall come , do you know this end , and when it shall be ? I will tell you my experience , it is to your end , and at your end , that Christ doth come , and therefore would you prolong his coming , for his coming in , will be your going out , overturn , overturn , his rising will be your falling , and his life will be your death , for you are a lie , and he is the truth , therefore stay Lord Jesus , and come not yet , say you , that know not his coming to be in you , stay till the time of the end of the world , which you would not have to be yet , because your end must come with it , but come Lord Jesus , come quicklie , say I , and all those that know his coming to be in them , that the world of sin , death , hell , and all Devillishnesse may have an end in all men , as in them , that there may be no more wrath nor hatred , no more fighting nor quarrelling , disputing nor contending , for the truth , nor against the truth , but that heaven and earth , righteousnesse and truth may meet together , and imbrance each other in all men , and at all times , places , and things whatsoever , according to the word and will of the Lord , that there may be no more any thing at a distance , neither truth nor error , light nor darknesse , day nor night , but that in the evening there may be light , and so but one day known to the Lord over all the earth , one King , and his name one . But in the mean time you have here following Articles against the truth , and answers for the truth . The twenty five Articles , called Blasphemy , brought against Richard Coppin by the Ministers of Kent , and for which he was sent to Prison , with his Answers to them . COppin . First , I denie all their Articles to be spoken by me , as they are here laid down by them , they having much abused my words , and also my sense , by their adding and diminishing ; yet for satisfaction to many people of the truth of that which may be in them , I shall give a brief answer to them , according to the plain sense of Scripture , and the manifestations of God to men here on earth , which so far as I ever knew in my self I alwaies declared , and hid nothing of the counsel of God made known to men ; but for what God will do by man at the end of this life beyond what is revealed , I leave also with him , till he shall more reveal it . Article 1. That all the Scriptures is but an Allegory , that is all , said he , both Law and Gospel ; and that it is but an Allegory , said he , it is clear from Gal. 4. 24. Answer . The whole Scripture of Law and Gospel , the son of the Bond-woman , and the Son of the Free-woman , are the two Covenants in an Allegorie ; so saith Paul , Gal 4. 24. which things , saith he , are an Allegory , for those are the two Covenants . The Allegorie is in this , , Abraham had two sons , the one by a Bond-maid , the other by a Free-woman , the Bond-maid is the Law , or first Covenant , the Free-woman is the Gospel , or second Covenant in a mysterie ; and these also are the two Jerusalems , Sina and Sion ; the one which is below , as in bondage , the other which is above , as in freedome , which are also the two mothers , of the children after the flesh , and the children after the spirit , they who live by the works of the Law under the conditions of the first Covenant , and so not all their sins to be forgiven them , are the sons of the Bond-woman after the flesh , and are in bondage with their mother to this day , persecu●ing the sons of the Free-woman born after the spirit , that lives by free grace , and sees their sins pardoned . Secondly , the carnal mind of man is the son of the Bond-woman after the flesh , minding the things of the flesh , which is death ; the spiritual mind is the son of the Free-woman after the spirit , minding the things of the spirit , which is life , for so it is written , To be carnally mindad is death , but to be spiritually minded is life and peace ; and this son of the Bond-woman is to be cast out , as no more to be remembred , for he shall not be heir with the son of the free-woman , for he understands not the things of the spirit of God , but they are foolishnesse unto him , neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned ; but the spiritual man knoweth all things , yea , the deep things of God , and therefore lives in God as in peace and freedome , and is no longer in bondage . Thus is the Scripture an Allegorie , and a great Mysterie , for great is the mysterie of godlinesse ; and saith Christ , you erre , not knowing the Scriptures , nor the power of God . Article 2. That our Jesus took our defiled nature with sin , and was a sinner in that nature . Answer . That Jesus Christ took on him our sinful nature , and in it destroyed the sinfulnesse of it , is a truth , according to these Scriptures , Forasmuch as the children are partakers of flesh and blood , Jesus Christ himself likewise took part of the same , that through death he might also destroy him that had the power of death , which is the Devil , &c. and God made Christ to be sin for us , laid upon him the iniquities of us all , and he did bear them in his own bodie on the Tree , which is no blasphemie to say , but that he should be a sinner in that nature , I never said it , neither do affirm as you would have it . Article 3. That he was a cursed Goat for the Goats on the left hand , Mat. 25. 35. That by the left hand we are to understand nothing but the Law ; as by the right hand nothing but the Gospel . Answer . First , they under the Law not believing the pardon of their sins , are at the left hand of God , as Goats cursed , for cursed is everie one that is under the law . Secondly , they under the Gospel , believing that their sins are pardoned , are at the right hand of God , as sheep blessed , For blessed is the man whose iniquities are forgiven , and whose sin is covered ; and blessed are they that know the joyful sound of the Gospel , for they are at the right hand of God , in the way of life , where they hear his voice , and behold his face , and have pleasures for evermore ; and Christ to redeem man to this state of blessednesse , from that curse , and Goatish nature , which man by reason of sin lay under at the left hand of God , did himselfe bear our sins in our steeds , at the left hand , and was cursed for us , signified by the Scape Goat on whom Aaron laid the sins of all the people , sending him away with them , to lose them ▪ so did God on Christ lay the sins of all people , and as the Goat in the tipe did , so did Christ carrie them away from us , no more to be remembered to us , which is blasphemie to say . Article 4. That the Lord Christ was the High-Priest spoken of in Heb. 5. 3. and that he offered for his own sins . Answer . As concerning this , I only asked the question what High-Priest was there meant , and the answer was given by one of the Ministers that it was Jesus Christ , but read and consider the Scripture , and you may be better satisfied , for he was one that could have compassion on the ignorant , and on them that are out of the way , and who this is , I will leave for the Reader to judge , compared with Chap. 7. 27. Christ is there said to do that by one offering , which the Priests under the Law did at twice , that is , they offered first for their own sins , and then for the sins of the people , but this did Christ once , when he offered up himself , not that Christ could offer for his own sins , as known to him , but for our sins , as reckoned to him in our nature , and so all our sins became his , till he by death discharged both himself and us of them together . Article 5. That the Human : Nature of Christ is not ascended to heaven , and brought this Scripture to prove it , that flesh and blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of God , 1 Cor. 13. 50. Answer . The Humane Nature of Christ was of the same nature of man , which was of the earth earthie , and Christ by living in it did sanctifie and cleanse it , and so made it heavenlie , which may be said to be its Ascention into heaven , but that a humane bodie of flesh , blood and bones should be in a local place above the Stars , as M. French and others would have it , I find not anywhere proved from Scripture , for then it would be also out of its element , and then heaven were to be understood as the earth , and not as heaven , and so one contrariet●e would be in another ; but John saith , That which is of the earth is earthy , and that which from heaven is heavenly , and flesh and blood never came from heaven , therefore shall not enter into heaven ; but the Holy Spirit and Power was said to descend down upon the Mother of Christ , and not a humane bodie ; and Paul saith , He that ascended up to heaven is the same , he that first descended from heaven , and not another . Article 6. That he that looks for the humane nature of Christ to come from heaven , may look long enough . Answer . He that looks for such a coming of Christ in his second coming , as is contrarie to the Scripture , and not as God himself , which is the Lord from heaven , may look long enough before he see him , but the Scripture saith , That though we have known Christ after the flesh , yet henceforth know we him so no more , but in spirit , and in glorie to be revealed in our flesh : And this coming of Christ , is the coming of God , to take a Kingdom to himself in man of that which is himself , which coming must be as God ro man , and not as man to man , for he shall come in the glorie of his Father , and this coming I know , and therefore speak , not denying any other . Article 7. That there shall be no Resurrection of any body that dies ; and when that of Job , the 19. 23. to 28. was urged , he returned ; that Job said he knew not what , and proceeded most abominably to Allegorie the Scriptures . Answer . First , I deny not what may be proved by another , but the Apostle saith , That the same bodie buried , is not the same bodie raised , but God giveth it a bodie as pleaseth him , that is , to be like himself , for so it 's written , He will change our vile bodies , and fashion them like unto his glorious bodie , whose body is not as mans is , and David saith , When I awake , I shall be satisfied with thy likenesse , which is , for all things in man to be subdued unto the Lord , that God may be all in all , who is not the God of the dead , but of the living ; and when Job said , His Redeemer lived , and that he should see him stand upon the earth at the last day , was a mysterie , which Job did not then know , until he saw it fulfilled in himself , which afterwards he d●d , and then saw his last day , and confest that he had before uttered words without knowledge , things too wonderfull for him , which he understood not ; But now ( saith he ) hear I beseech th 〈…〉 , and I will declare unto thee , for I have often heard of thee by the hearing of the ear , but now do mine eyes see thee , and then was Jobs Resurrection come , when he saw God to be risen within him , and we rise not , but as God rises with us , For , saith he , the dead men shall live together , with my dead bodie shall they arise : Awake and sing ye that dwell in the dust , for thy dew is as the dew of herbs , and the earth shall cast out the dead , and blessed are they that hath part in this Resurrection . Article 8. That there shall be no day of Judgment , and that the Scriptures warrant it . Answer . This I never said , but that a day of Judgment , according to the Scripture , there is , which had its beginning with Christ manifest in flesh , after the fall of man , to destroy sin , which Day of Judgement was then , is now , and ever will be to man , so long as sin remains in man unjudged and uncondemned by Christ ; and so saith Christ , For Judgement am I come , and now is the Judgement of this world , now shall the Prince of this world be cast out , and now will I convince the world of sin , of righteousnesse , and of Judgement , which day of Judgment was , is , and is to come spiritually ; but whether there be such a manner of Day of Judgement as some men would have , is not by me denied , nor yet by others proved . Article 9. That there is no local hell nor heaven , all the heaven or hell that he will acknowledge , is within man . Answer . That there is hell and heaven in man the Scripture declares it , and I know it , but this denies not any other which may be proved by another ; as for hell , it is for man to be out of the presence of the enjoyment of Gods love , under wrath , and terror of conscience for sin and wickedness , which hel Cain was in , when he said to God , my punishment is greater then I can bear ; and now shall I go out from thy presence , and from thy face , shall I be ●id : And David saith , Thou O God hast laid me in the lowest pit , in darknesse , in the deep , where I am shut up , and cannot come forth , thy wrath lieth so hard upon me ; and this is hell and great terror to those that are in it , and for any other I know it not , but leave it to God . Secondlie , Heaven is a souls rest , peace , joy , and content in God , it is a continual enjoyment of Gods presence with a soul in mercie , love , and favour , through Christ , free from sorrow and shame , which is righteousnesse , peace , and joy in the Holy Ghost , and where are pleasures for evermore , and which Christ saith is within us , For behold , saith he , the Kingdome of God is within you ; and then needs must we be in that , so far as that is in us known to us , and enjoyed by us , which Kingdome is the Lord himself given to us , to be a Kingdome for us , into which Kingdome we arise with him , to sit in heavenly places in him : And this is our Kingdome , heaven , and happinesse , which none can know , but he that hath it . Article 10. That God will never destroy any creature that he hath made . Answer . That none of the works of God can perish eternallie , being all verie good , but the works of the Devil , for all things that God made , was made by Christ , and for Christ , and still to remain in Christ , as everlasting as Christ , for that which hath been is , that which shall be , and there is no new thing under the Sun as to God , but whatsoever was once of God , is still of God , and shall stand for ever , but whatsoever is of man , shall come to nought ; and therefore , though man by sinning hath destroyed himself for a time , as to himself , yet in the Lord is his help , and let God alone with his own works . Article 11. That he will destroy sin in all , but not any sinner that shall ever be destroyed . Answer . Sin is the work of the Devil , which in due time shall be destroyed in all men , as Christ shall be manifested in them , ●●r this purpose was the Son of God manifest , that he might destroy the works of the Devil ; and therefore that no sinner shall never be destroyed , I never said , for there is the great Sinner and Lyar the Devil , that sins and lies in all men , seeking to destroy the works of God in them , but is not able , and he shall be destroyed , and all men sinning in him are so long destroyed by him , till Christ be manifest to destroy the Devil in them . Article 12. That there is not a Jew that ever died in his unbelief , and renounced Christ , but is saved . Answer . This I never said , however take this answer , that the Jewes as well as others are all the people of God , and all men , without respect of persons , have sinned and renounced Christ , and yet he never accused them to the Father , but died for all , to pardon the sin of all , yea them that denie him , that so he might save them , by living in them , and damning that which made them denie him , though till then they believe it not , and so enjoye it not ; but whether any man die in this unbeleife I dare not say , neither may any other ; for Christ to give faith , comes in the twinking of an eye , to some at the last gasp , for ought any know ; however that of God , returnes to God , and that of the earth to the earth in all men , and being once in God , it is safe , Who will have all men to be saved , and come to the knowledge of the truth , even of that Jesus that died for them , and lives in them ; rest then on Godw , hose word and will shall stand , and he will doe all his pleasure . Article 13. That all mankind , Jew or Gentile , and what ever they are , how ever they live , or dye , shall be saved , for the Jewes he brought the Text , all Israell shall be saved , Rom. 11. 26. for the salvation of all heathen whatsoever , he brought Psa. 28. Answer . The word how ever they live , or die , I never said , but take this answer also , That all men by the law are sinners , a like , for he that breaks one , is guilty of all , and as in all men , is the seed of the serpent , so in all men is the seed : of God , though for a time it may be hid , end there is nothing can be too hard for Christ when he rises in Power , in any soule , to hinder the salvation of that soule , but he will overcome it , and however they lived before they are now made new creatures , and God having loved them so as to send his Son , to die for them , cannot but love them still , to cause his Son to rise in them , from which love nothing is able to separate , or pull them out of his hands , though it may darken the manifestation of it for a time , as to them , so that all the Jewes shall be brought in , and God will be mercifull to their unrighteousness , though for a time blindnesse and hardnesse of heart is happened unto them , but it is that the fulness of the Gentiles might come in with them , and then all Jewes shall be saved , as well as all Gentiles , and likewise the heathen hath God given to Christ for his inheritance , and the uttermost parts of the earth for his Possession , that he should breake , briuse , and consume all selfe in them , and therein save them , but great is this mystery , and so good is this work , that none should be offended , and yet saith Christ , many shall be offended , because of me . Article 14. That no soule can bel●eve , with an assurance that he him selfe shall be saved , until he bel●eve that all men what soever shall be saved . Answer . 1. He that saves one , saves all , and there is no one man , till he see that one Jesus , who is the Saviour of all men , that doth see his own Saviour , and then hath not a full assurance of his own salvation ; and he that doth see Christ , and believe in him , as the Saviour of all men , his salvation is more especially confirmed to him , then the others is that doth not so believe and such a one enjoyes it as possessingly , and the other doth not , and that makes it more especially unto him , and so he have a greater assurance then the other hath , because he trusteth in the living God , who is the Saviour of all men , of which all he knows himself one , and so believes it upon a sure ground , till which time I could not assure my self . Article 15. That if there be but one man of all that ever were or shall be in the world damned ; no man can assuredly know that his soule shall be saved . Answer . And if Christ were not the Saviour of all men , and I hear but of one man that shall be damned to all eternity , and this man not yet pointed out , as knowne from all the rest , to be the man , and Christ come to save the worst of sinners ; what full assurance then can I have of my savlation more then another of his salvation , but some doubts , and some feares will arise within me , who shall be that man that is to be damned , till I see a pardon come forth for all men to be saved , and then I knowing my selfe to be one of that all cannot but have a good assurance of my owne salvation , this axperince-in me doth witness , as also saith the Scripture , that I can no more judge any man , to eternall damnation , but that which is not of God in man . Therefore who art thou O man , that judgest another , and dost the same things thy selfe , for wherein thou judgest another , thou condemnest thy selfe , for thou that judgest , dost the same things ; and who hath made thee to differ from another , that thou shouldest be saved , and not another ? wherefore think not better of thy selfe then of another , for there is no respect of Persons with God , that is more accepted with him , but only Christ in all , and all in Christ , for he hath concluded all men , ( as men ) under sin and unbeliefe , that he might have mercy upon all , and then O the depth of the riches , both of the wisdom , and knowledge of God , how unsearchable are his judgment and his wayes , past finding out , for who hath knowne the mind of God , or who hath bin his councellor ? for of him , and to him , and through him are all things , to whom be glory for ever . Article 16. That the unpardonable sin of the Holy Ghost , is nothing but flesh opposing and quenching the spirit , till Christ come into the soule , and destroy the flesh . Answer . To explaine this , the Holy Ghost is the spirit ; the sin against the Holy Ghost , is the opposition and war that is made against the Spirit , by the fleshly carnall mind , for the flesh wa 〈…〉 against the Spirit , and the Spirit against the flesh , and these are contrary one to another in man ; and so saith Paul , I find , saith he , a warring within me , that when I would do good , evill is present with me , & 't is no more I that do it , but sin that dwelleth in me , for with my mind I serve the Law of God ; though with my flesh the Law of sin , and this flesh opposing the Spirit , is for a time in every man , ( as a man of sin ruling in them ) till Christ come into the soule and destroy it , which shall never be forgiven in this world , nor in the world to come ; but is the only enemy that God will destroy in man . Article 17. That when a soule is once regenerated , then he is free from all sin , that the flesh is quite destroyed . Answer . Regeneration is a new birth , and the new birth is to be in Christ a new creature , free from all sin , without which , man , nor his prayers , nor any thing is accepted of God , for he heareth not sinners , and without holiness no man shall see God , but if the Son shall make you free , then are you free indeed , and him that is in Christ , is a new creature , old things are past away , and all things are become new , by the washing of Regeneration , and renewing of the Holy Ghost . Article 18. That no man shall receive any good , by any good that he doth ; that it shall no way further his salvation . Answer . If man by his good works could merit heaven , then salvation by Christ were made void , or if any thing of man , which is imperfect , were to joyn with Christ in the work of salvation , then mans salvation were not all by Christ , but by man , and would so far be imperfect ; and then man might boast and say , he was able to help Christ to save his soul ; and so robing Christ of his work , would rob him of his honor also , but not of works , saith Paul , lest any man should boast , neither by any other name under heaven , but by Jesus Christ is any man saved , that no flesh might glory in his presence , but he that glories , let him glory in the Lord , that his soul was saved by the Lord . Article 19. That no man shall receive any hinderance by any sin he committeth , that shall do him no hurt . Answer . If any sin of man should hinder mans salvation by Christ , then that sin would appear to be too strong for Christ to conquer , and then no man could be saved , for there is no sin but every man is guiltie of , for all have sinned , and all are guiltie ; but this I say with the Prophet Elihu , that his bad works may hurt a man as he is , and his good works may profit men , but shall no way profit the salvation of his soul : But because good works are good to men , therefore would I have all men observe and do them , doing unto others , as they would others should do to them , which is the sum of the whole Law , for he that loveth God , will also love his Brother . Article 20. That our Lord Jesus Christ is the three persons in the Trinity , God blessed , Father , Son , and Holy Spirit , and that the blessed Trinity is but three manifestation of God . Answer . The blessed Trinity , Father , Son , and Spirit I acknowledg , the Father as begeting , the Son as begotten , and the Holy Ghost uniting , as being the compleat union of all three together in one spirit , where they all meet as copartners together in one work , that what the one is , the other is the same , and what the one doth , the other doth the same , as all but one God , manifesting himself under various appearances , of Father , Son , and Spirit , to the creatures apprehension . Article 21. That our Lord Jesus Christ himself was the Leper that was cleansed , and returned to give thanks , Luke 17. 15. Answer . I say not that Christ was a Leper , but there were ten , Lepers that were cleansed , and one of them when he saw himself cleansed , turned back , and glorified God , and Christ saith , Where are the other nine ? There are not found that returned to give glory to God , save this stranger ; and who was this stranger , but Christ in that man , that gave glory to God for the work done ( as Christ saith ) Father , I have glorified thee on earth , I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do , for I have raised the dead , and cleansed the Lepers , and now , O Father , glorifie thou me ; and to whom was Christ a stranger , but to the other nine ? for though he had healed them , yet he was not manifested in them , as an eye to enlighten them , whereby to see themselves healed ; so that there was but one to give thanks for the cleansing of ten , and this one was Christ giving thanks to the Father for accepting of him for their cleansing , who as yet was a stranger unto them , the manifestation of the spirit not yet being given them , for which all men come unto him , as 't is written , Ten men shall take hold ( out of all languages of the Nations ) of one man , even of the skirt of him that is a Jew , saying , We will go with you , for we have heard that God is with you ; and look to me all ye to the ends of the earth , and be ye saved , saith Christ . Article 22. That Baptism is of no necessity , nor use . Answer . That that Baptism which is necessary to salvation is of necessity to be used , but Water-Baptism was but the Baptism of John , and was to end with John , being as it was fulfilled by Christ , that so Christs own Baptism might take place , which was by Fire and the Holy Ghost , and of this Baptism there is great necessity , because without it no man can be saved . Article 23. That there is no place in the whole Word of God , that saith , there is no Redemption from hell . Answer . That from that hell which the Scripture speaketh of , there is Redemption ; so saith David , Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell ; and David while he lived , was for somtime in it shut up , & could not come forth , the wrath of God lay so hard upon him , in his not seeing the pardon of his sins , which is hell to all made sensible of it , and from which hell there is redemption , else what is man redeemed from , if not from death and hell , which the Scripture saith shall be destroyed , and a man must first be in it , before he can be redeemed from it ; but if there be any Scripture in the whole Bible , that saith , out of hell there is no redemption , let it be but by any produced , and I shall believe it , till then give me leave to believe what I know . Article 24. That hell torments are not for ever , and the Scripture warrant it . Answer . That if hell shall have an end ( as the Scripture saith ) then needs must hell torments and hell ( according to Scripture and mens experience ) is the not injoyment of Gods love and favour , and the torments , is ignorance of God , terror of conscience , sorrow of heart , trouble of mind , being discontented and unsatisfied in his condition , all which are hell torments , taking place in man for a time , until Christ hath overcome them , and chased them away , by placing in their rooms the joyes of heaven , as 't is written , Sorrow , sighing and mourning may continue for a night , but joy comes in the morning , and then sorrow and sighing shall all fly away , and be no more seen . Article 25. That Jesus Christ is not in heaven above . Answer . That Jesus Christ is the fulness of God , and this fulness cannot be subscribed , limited , or confined to any one place or ●erson ( locally ) for it fills heaven and earth , and all things therein , of its fulness , that the heaven of heavens cannot contain him , but he is ascended far above all heavens into God himselfe , that he might fill all things with himselfe , and therein containe all things in himselfe , of high and low , of things in heaven , and of things on earth , even in him , that in all things he might have the preheminence as one God over all , through all , and in all , therefore to honour Christ with a heaven , this is the highest heaven , and the greatest honour that can be given to him , all which I know him both to be , and to have , by the witness of the Spirit , with the Scripture , and my own experience , and he that honours not Christ with this heaven , he honours him with none at all , but dethrones him of his Throne , and detains from his glory , and such a one as this denies Christ to be in heaven . A POSTSCRIPT by friends to comfort the Author of this work in his present Troubles , by R. W. L. T Was bravely ventured , what , three to one , And he to keep the field till all were gone : But some few men with Swords , and Generals , Justices of the Peace , and men with mauls , Consulting the Black-guard , their Snakie Den , A lodge , from whence that cruel Serpenten Spirit of Persecution doth arise Again , as 't was in the old Marian daies ; Else , what means it ? in this our weekly newes From all quarters , such dolours to infuse Into our ears , which makes us surely think , Cruelty shall enter , and Justice wink A while , to give this bloody Serpent string , That so they easie may pluck out his sting : From Esam , Colchester , and this of Kent , Tells , the Whore rides , as though the Skies she 'd rent With her myst'rious , fornications , gain , As though o're the whole world she meant to raign : Her Seas nought but mire and dirt cast up , To make all drink her filthy wrathful cup ; Her Merchants roaring , bring all to their ways , As French , sometime Felt-maker in the Mays . Rosewell , from West to East , did rage about , 'gainst State , when Love by 's sin was rooted out . But when thou at Oxford , and Glocester , try'd , Truth then advanced Justice on thy side , And quail'd the haughtinesse of Chim'rims pride , Whose malice 't was at first to have thee dide In crimson blood , and so keep up their trade , For which again thou 'rt now a Pris'ner made : Go on brave heart , let thine enemies know God will them in his fi'ry Oven throw , And there perhaps make them his truth Keep Lent for sins , or break them on th 〈…〉 FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A34470e-280 Coll. 2. 2. Chap : 1. 27. Tim: 2 : Rev. 12 : 7 : 8 : 9 : Notes for div A34470e-440 * For the word Chimmerims read Bezaes Translation , Zephany 1. 4. Hosea 10. 5. 2 Kings 23. 5. with notes on the Margent . As they were at Oxford , Worcester , Glocester , and elsewhere . Notes for div A34470e-1340 Luke 22. 70. 23. 3. Luke 11. 53. 54. John 16. 2● . 1 Pet. 2. 22 2 Cor : 5. 21 : Isa : 53 : 1 Cor : 12. Ephes : 5. 34 : Jude 9 : 1 John 3. 8 : Isa 53 : 6 : 1 Pet : 2 : 24. Redemption from hell . John 10 : 14 Hosea 13 : 9● Heb : 4. 10. Luke 17. 10. Iob 35 ▪ 6. 7 , 8. Gallat . 3. 10. Psa. 89. 13. 14 , 15 : Rom : 11 : 32 : Rom. 19. 21. John 1● 11 : Isa : 53. 1 : Gall : 4 : 4 : 5 : Micah 7 : 19 : Jer. 31 : 34. Heb● 10 : 5 : Joh. 10 : 17 : 18 1 Pet : 2 : 24 : John 3 : 18 : Isaiah 53 8. 〈…〉 h 42 : 6 : 7 R●v. 1. 17. 18 ●●aiah 26. 19. Iohn 12. 32. Revel. 1. 6. Ier. 50. 5 : Heb. 12 : last . 1 Cor. 3. 13. Isaiah 4 : 4. Iude 23 : Ier : 7. 31. 32. 1 Cor. 3. 〈…〉 Isaiah 27 : 4. Heb. 4 : 13 : The Scriptures an Allegory . 1 Cor. 15 : 50. 2 Cor. 5. 16. Acts 1. 4. 5. Eph●s . 4. 9. 10 : Luke 1 : 35. What ' 〈…〉 meant by above . Coll. 3 : 1. Gall : 5. Iames 3. 14 , 15● 1 Kings 8. 27. 2 Cor. 5. 16. 2 Cor. 12. 1. Iohn 10. 30. Coll. 2. 9. 1 Coll. 16. 17. 1 Cor. 1. 27. 28 1 Cor. 5. 6. 7. Eph. 5. 26. 27. Rom. 11. 32. 2 Sam. 14 : 14. Iohn 11. 50 Heb. 10 14. 15 Chap. 7. 27. Revel. 1. 17 : 18 Phil. 3. 10 : 11. Rom : 1 : 16 : 17 2 Cor : 3 : 18 : Ephes : 2 : 1 : Coll : 3 : 1 : Revel : 20 : 6 : Rom : 8 : 10 : Iob 33. Iob 27 : Ch●p : 19 : 9 : Chap : 7 : 5 : Chap : 6 : 2 : 3 : 4 Chap : 16 : 13 : Isa : 11 : 5 : Christ a sign . Rom. 6. 4. Phil. 3. 2● . 2 Cor 4 7. 8 : 9. 10. 11. 1 Coll. 24● Of the Trinity . 1 Iohn 5 : 20 : Iohn 17 : 23 : Iohn 14 : 26 : What is Reprobation . 2 Cor. 13 : 5 : The sin against the Holy Ghost . Rom. 11. 32● Rom. 1. 18. Isa. 27 ▪ 4 : Acts 9 : 1 : 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. Iohn 3. 17 : Rom. 5. 8 : 18 : Cha : 8 : 33 : 34 : 1 Tim: 2. ●om : 9 : 25 : 26 Isaiah 6 : 10 : 13 Ier : 31 : 1 : Rom : 11 : 26 : 1 Cor : 12 ▪ 12 : Psa : 2 : 8. 1 Thes : 5 : 1 : Titus 2. 11 : 12 Iames 4 : 11 : 1 Cor : 2 : 4 : 5. Chap. 1. 23. Luke 2. 14. Isaiah 52. 7. Isaiah 40 1 : 2. Heb : 2 : 9 : Isaiah 45 : 22● Isaiah 11 : 9 : Isaiah 57 : 16 : Isaiah 11. 2. 3 : Iohn 9. 39. 1 Pet : 4. 17 : Mal. 3. 1. 2 : 32 ▪ Revel. 20 : 12 : Rom. 2. 15. 16 : 2 Pet : 3. 8. Rev l : 12. 9. 10 Iohn 5. 40 : 45 : Ez. k : 34 : Ier. 5. 30 : 31 : Luke 4 : 18 : Iohn 3. 17 : Mat : 23. 1. 2. 3. 4. Verse 36 : Mat : 16. 27 : 28 Luk. 17. 20 : 21 M●● : 23. 13. 2 P●t. 2. 3. Iohn 17. 3 : 1 Cor : 27. 28 : Gall : 1 : 11 : 12 : Iohn 3 : 18 : Rom : 11. 32 : Ier. 23 : 32. Mark 16. 2 Cor : 5. 19 : Mall : 2 : 7 : 8. 9 : Isaiah 52. 7. Psal. 19 : 3. 4 Co● . 115 : 6 : 23. Revel : 14 : 6 : 7 : Eccles : 1 : 9 : 10. Heb. 13 : 8. The Seat and work of the Whore . Iohn 8 : 4● : The freedom of the present Government . Iohn 14. 6. Isaiah 55. 4 : Ephes. 2. 5 : Coll : 1 : 21 : Rom. 5 : 10 : 18. Matth. 11. 27. Luke 17 : 17. 28. H●b. 2. 11. Ephes. 1. 10 : Iohn 17. 23. Ezek. 34 : 16 : Ier. 33 : 6. 7. 8. Rom. 5 : 18 : Luke 19. 10. 1 Iohn 2. 1 : 2. 1 Tim. 2 : 1 Tim: 2 : Titus 3 : 2 : 3 : 4 : 5 : 1 Pet. 2 : 1 : 2 : 3. Numb : 11. 16 : to 29. Luke 4 : 18 : 1 Pet. 4. 10 : Iohn 3. 4 : Iob 17 : 14 ▪ Mark 10 : 13 : 14 , 15 , 16. John 4. 2 : Jer. 1 : 5 : Rom. 10. 21. Psa : 131 : 1. 2 : Isaiah 53 ▪ 1. 6 : Dan : 10 : 10. 11 Men cast in 〈…〉 ison by the Devil . Revel : 2 : 9 : 10 : Hosea 7. 6 7 : 1 Cor. 3. 15 : Isaiah 4 : 4 : Obad , 1. 18 : Isaiah 27 : 4 9 : Isaiah 6 : Mat : 3. Isaiah 26 : 20. Revel. 15. 8. Iob 5. 24 : Rom. 6. 60. Acts 5. 27 , 28 , 29 : Luk 19 47. 48 Iohn 15 : 20 : Psa : 139. 7 : 8. 9. Ephes : 4. Iohn 10 : 30. Iohn 5. 19. Iohn 10. 16. Isaiah 53 : 8 : H●b. 5. 2. Isaiah 53 : 3. Luke 10. 16 : Isa : 52. 14 : 15. Iohn 5 : 43. Isaiah 50. 10 : Rom. 9 : 29 : Ephes : 16. Iohn 1. 11. Luke 9. 23. Psalm 45 : 4 : Isaiah 35 : 67 : I●r . 5. 14. 1 Cor : 3 11. 12. 13. Ca● 8 : 6. 7 : Rom. 3 : 4. Iam●s 3 : 15. Dan : 9. 24. Zech 14. 6 7 , 8 , 9 : Notes for div A34470e-20490 Gall . 4. 21. end Rom. 4. 5. 6. 1 Cor. 10 : 14 : 15 : 1 Tim: 3 : 3. 16 Ma● : 22. 29 : H●b 2 : 14 : 2 Cor : 5 : 21 : 1 Per. 2 : 24 : Isa : 53 : 6 : Gall : 3 : 10 : 13 : Rom : 4 : 7 : Psa : 89. 13 : 14. 15 : Psa. 16. 11 : Levit : 16 : 21 : H●b. 5. 2 , 3 Eph : 5 : 26 : 27. Iohn 3. 31. 1 Gor. 15. 50. Luke 1. 35. Eph●s . 4. 10. 1 Cor. 15. 36. 37. Phil. 3 : 21. Isaiah 40. 18. Psa. 17. 15. 1 Cor : 15. 28. Mat : 22. 31. 32 Iob 42. 3 4. 5. Isaiah 26. 19 : Iohn 9. 39. Iohn 12. 30. Iohn 16 : 7. 8. Gen 4 13 : 14 : Psa : 88. 6 : 7. 8 : 〈…〉 14 : 1● : Psa. 16. 11 : Luke 17 : 21 : Eph. 2 : 6. Gen. 1 : 31 ▪ Coll : 1. 16. 17 : Ephes : 10 : 〈…〉 8 : Iohn 5 : 40 45 : 2 Cor : 5 : 15 : 2 Peter 2 : 1 : Iob 34 : 14 : 15 : Genes . 12 : 7 : 1 Timothy 2 : 4 Isaiah 6 : 13 : 1 Cor : 6 : 11 : Rom : 8 : 38 : 39 Rom : 11. 25 : 26 : 〈…〉 9 : 1 Tim: 4 9 : 10 , 11. Rom : 2 〈…〉 Gall . 〈…〉 6 : Rom : 11 : 32● 33 , 34 , 35 , 36 : Gall . 5 : 17 : Rom : 7 : 18 : to end . Rom. 6 ●8 Iohn 9 : 31 Iohn 8. 3● 2 Cor. 5 : 17 : Titns 3 : 5 Gall 2 : 16 Eph●s . 2 : 8 9 : Acts 4 : 12 : 1 , Cor : 1. 29 : 30 , 31 : Iob 35 : 6. 7 , 8 : Rom. 13 : 9. 10 Luke 11 : 5 : Iohn 17 : 5 : Zechar : 8 : 23 : Iohn 3. 11. 13 : Gall : 3 : 27 1 Cor : 12. 13 : Mark 11 : 16 : Psa ▪ 16. 10 : Psa : 88 : 6 : 7 : Coll. 1 : 14 Hosea 13. 14. Revel : 20 : 14. Psa : 16 : 10 , 11. Gen : 4. 13 : 14. Z●●har : 14. 12 : Isaiah 35 : 10 : R●vel . 21. 3 : 4 Coll 2 : 9 : 1 Kings 8 : 27 : Ephes : 4 : 10 : Coll : 1 18 , 19 , 20 : Ephes. 1. 10. Ephes. 4 : 6.