¶ Two dialogues written in latin by the famous clerk D. Erasmus of Roterodame/ one called Polyphemus or the gospeler/ the other disposing of things and names/ translated in to English by Edmonde Beck. And printed at Cantorbury in saint Paul's parish by Iohn Mychell. The preface to the Reader. LVcius Anneus Seneca among many other pratie sayings (gentle reder) hath this also, which in my judgement is as true as it is witty. Rogando cogit qui rogat superior. And in effect is thus much to say, if a man's superior or his better desire any thing, he might aswell command it by authority as ones to desire it. A gentleman a near cousin of mine, but much nearer in fryndshyp, eftsoons did instant and move me to translate these two dialogues following, to whose gentleness I am so much obliged, indebted and bound, that he might well have commanded me to this and more pains: to whom I do not only owe service, but myself also. And in accomplishing of his most honest request (partly because I would not the most inhuman fault of Ingratitude should worthily be imputed to me, & that I might in this thing also (according to my bounden duty) gratify my friend) I have hazard myself in these dangerous days, where many are so capcyous, some prone and ready to malign & deprave, and few whose ears are not so festidious, tender, and ready to please, that in very trifles & things of small importance, yet exact diligence and exquisite judgement is looked for and required, of them which at this present will attempt to translate any book be it that the matter be never so base. But what diligence I have employed in the translation hereof I refer it to the judgement of the learned sort, which conferring my translation with the latin dialogues, I doubt not will condone and pardon my boldness, in that that I challenge the semblable liberty which the translators of this time justly challenge. For some here tofore submitting themself to servitude, have little respect to the observation of the thing which in translation is of all other most necessary and requisite, that is to say, to render the sense & the very meaning of the author, not so religiously addict to translate word for word, for so the sense of the author is oftentimes corrupted & depraved, and neither the grace of the one tongue nor yet of the other is truly observed or aptly expressed. The learned knoweth that every tongue hath his peculiar propriety, phrase, manner of locution, enargies and vehemency, which so aptly in any other tongue can not be expressed. If I shall perceive this my simple doing to be thankfully taken, and in good part accepted, it shall encourage me hereafter to attempt the translation of some books disposing of matters both delectable, fruitful, & expedient to be known, by the grace of God, who giving me quietness of mind, liberty, and ability, shall not desyste to communicate the fruit of my spare hours, to such as are not learned in the latin tongue: to whom I dedycat the first fruits of this my simple translation. A declaration of the names. POliphemus signifieth, valiant or noble, and in an other signification, talcatyfe or clybbe of tongue. The name of a Giant called Cyclops, having but one eye in his forehead, of a huge stature and a mighty ꝑsonage. And is applied here to signify a great freke or a lubber, as this Poliphemus was, which being a man of war or a courtier, had a new testament in his hand, and looked busily for some sentence or text of scripture and that Cannius his companion espied and said to him as followeth. ¶ The parson's names are Cannius and Poliphemus. CAnnius. what hunt Polypheme for here? Poliphemus. Ask ye what I hunt for here, and yet ye see me have neither dogs, dart, javelin, nor hunting staff. Cannius. Peradventure ye hunt after some pretty nymph of the covert. Poliphemus. By my troth and well conjectured, behold what a goodly pursenet, or a hay I have here in my hand. Cannius. Benedicite, what a strange sight is this, me think I see Bacchus in a lions skin, Poliphemus with a book in his hand. This is a dog in a doublet, a sow with a saddle, of all that ever I see it is a non decet. Poliphe. I have not only painted and garnished my book with saffron, but also I have limned it with Sinople, asapherida, redleed, vermilion, and byse. Can. It is a warlike book, for it is furnished with knots, tassils plates, clasps, and brazen bullions. Poliphe. Take the book in your hand and look within it. Canni. I see it weary well. Truly it is a pretty book, but me thinks ye have not yet trimmed it sufficiently for all your cost ye have bestowed upon it. Poliphe. why what lacks it? Canni. Thou shouldest have set thine arms upon it. Poliphemus. what arms I beseech thee? Camniꝰ. Marry the heed of Silenus, an old iolthed drunkard toting out of a hoggeshed or a tun, but in good earnest, whereof doth your book dispose or entreat? doth it teach the art and craft to drink a duetaunt? Poli. Take heed in god's name what ye say lest ye bolt out a blasphemy before ye be ware. Camniꝰ. why bid ye me take heed what I say? is there any holy mat in the book? Poli. what man it is the gospel book, I trow there is nothing can be more holy. Cannius. God for thy grace what hath Poliphemus to do with the gospel? Poli. Nay why do ye not ask what a christian man hath to do with christ? Cannius. I can not tell but me thinks a rousty bill or a halberd would become such a great lubber or a slovyn as thou art a great deal better, for if it were my chance to meet such one and knew him not upon seeborde, and he looked so like a knave and a ruffian as thou dost I would take him for a pirate or a rover upon the see/ and if I met such one in the wood for an arrant thief, and a man murderer. Poli. yea good sir but the gospel teach us this same lesson, that we should not judge any person by his look or by his external & outward appearance. For like wise as many times under a grey freers coat a tyrannous mind lieth secretly hid, even so apolled heed, a crisp or a twyrled beard, a frowning, a fierce, or a dogged look, a cap, or a hat with an oystrich feather, a soldiers cassock, a pair of hoof all to cut and mangled, may cover an evangelical mind. Cannius. why not, marry God forbid else, yea & many times a simple sheep lieth hid in a wolves skin, and if a man may credit and believe the fables of Aesop, an ass may lie secretly unknown by cause he is in a lions skin. Poliphe. Nay I know him which beareth a sheep upon his heed, and a fox in his breast, to whom I would wish with all my heart that he had as white and as favourable friends as he hath black eyes. And I would wish also that he were aswell guilt over and over as he hath a colour meet to take guylting. Canni. If ye take him to were a sheep upon his heed, that weareth a cap of will, how grievously than art thou lodyn, or what an exceeding heavy burden bearest thou then I pray the which bearest a hole sheep and an ostryche to upon thy heed? But what say ye to him doth not he more folyssly which beareth a bird upon his heed, and an ass in his breast. Poliphemus. There ye nipped & taunted me in deed. Cannius. But I would say this gear did wondrous well if this gospel book did so adorn the with virtue as thou hast adorned limned, and gorgeously garnished it with many gay goodly glistering ornaments. Marry sir thou hast set it forth in his right colours in deed, would to god it might so adorn the with good conditions that thou mightest once learn to be an honest man. Poli. There shall be no default in me, I tell you I will do my diligence. Can. Nay there is no doubt of that, there shall be no more fault in you now I dare say then was wont to be. Poli. Yea but (your tart taunts, and your churlysshe checks, and railings set aside) tell me I pray the this one thing, do you thus dispraise, condemn, or find fault with them which carrieth about with them the new testament or the gospel book? Canni. No by my faith do I not good pretty man. Poliphe. Call ye me but a pretty one and I am higher than you by the length of a good asses heed. Can. I think not fully so much if the ass stretch forth his ears, but go to it skyllis no matter of that, let it pass, he that bore Christ upon his back was called Christofer, and thou which bearest the gospel book about with the shall for Poliphemus be called the gospeler or the gospel bearer. Polip. Do not you count it an holy thing to carry about with a man the new testament? Camni. why no sir by my troth do I not, except thou grant the very asses to be holy to. Poli. How can an ass be holy? Cannius. For one ass alone is able to bear three hundredth such books, and I think such a great lubber as thou art were strong enough to bear as great a burden, and if thou had a handsome packesadle set upon thy back. Poliphe. And yet for all your jesting it is not against good reason to say that the ass was holy which bore christ. Cannius. I do not envy you man for this holiness for I had as lief you had that holiness as I, and if it please you to take it I will give you an holy & a religious relic of the self same ass which christ road upon, and when ye have it ye may kiss it lick it and cull it as oft as ye list. Poli. Marry sir I thank you, ye can not give me a more thankful gift nor do me a greater pleasure, for that ass withouten any fail was made as holy as any ass could be by the touching of Christ's body. Cannius. undoubted they touched christes body also which stroke and buffeted christ. Poliphe. yea but tell me this one thing I pray the in good earnest. Is it not a great sign of holiness in a man to carry about the gospel book or the new testament? Cannius. It is a token of holiness in deed if it be done without hypocrisy, I mean if it be done without dissimulation/ and for that end, intent & purpose, that it should be done for. Poliphe. What the devil & a morten tellest thou a man of war of hypocrisy, away with hypocrisy to the monks and the freers. Cannius. Yea but because ye say so, tell me first I pray you what ye call hypocrisy. Po. When a man pretendis another thing outwardly then he meanis secretly in his mind. Cannius. But what doth the bearing about of the new testament signify. Doth it not betoken that thy life should be conformable to the gospel which thou carriest about with the. Poli. I think well it doth. Cannius. Well then when thy life is not conformable to the book, is not that plain hypocrisy. Poliph. Tell me then what you call the true carienge of the gospel book about with a man. Camni. Some men bear it about with them in their hands (as the grey freers were wont to bear the rule of saint Frances) and so the porters of London, Asses & horses may bear it as well as they. And there be some other that carry the gospel in their mouths only, and such have no other talk but all of christ and his gospel, and that is a very point of a pharysey. And some other carry it in their minds. But in mine opinion he bears the gospel book as he should do which both bears it in his hand, communes of it with his mouth when occasion of edifying of his neighbour when convenient opportunity is ministered to him, and also bears it in his mind and thinketh upon it with his heart. Poli. Yea thou art a merry fellow, where shall a man find such black swans? Cannius. In every cathedral church, where there be any deacons, for they bear the gospel book in their hand, they sing the gospel aloud, sometime in a loft that the people may hear them, although they do not understand it, and their minds are upon it when they sing it. Polphe. And yet for all your saying all such deacons are no saints that bear the gospel so in their minds. Cannius. But lest ye play the subtile and captious sophystryar with me I will tell you this one thing before. No man can bear the gospel in his mind but he must needs love it from the bothum of his heart, no man loveth it inwardly and from the bothun of his heart but he must needs declare and express the gospel in his living, outward manners, & behaviour. Poli. I can not skill of your subtile reasonings, ye are to fine for me. Can. Then I will commune with you after a grosser manner, and more plainly. if thou didst bear a tankard of good Reynyshe wine upon thy shoulders only, what other thing were it to the then a burden. Poliphe. It were none other thing truly, it is no great pleasure to bear wine. Cannius. What and if thou drank asmuch as thou couldst well hold in thy mouth, after the manner of a gargarism & spit it out again. Po. That would do me no good at all, but take me not with such a fault I trow, for the wine is very bad and if I do so. Canni. But what and if thou drink thy skin full as thou art wont to do, when thou comest where good wine is. Poliphe. Marry there is nothing more godly or heavenly. Cannius. It warms you at the stomach, it sets your body in a heat, it makes you look with a ruddy face, and setteth your heart upon a merry pin. Poliphe. That is surely so as ye say in deed. Canni. The gospel is such a like thing of all this world, for after that it hath ones pierced & entered in the veins of the mind it altereth, transposeth, and clean changeth upso-down the whole state of man, and changeth him clean as it were into another man. Polip. Ah ha, now I wots whereabout ye be, belike ye think that I live not according to the gospel or as a good gospeler should do. Cannius. There is no man can dissolve this question better than thyself. Poli. Call ye it dissolving? Nay and if a thing come to dissolving give me a good sharp axe in my hand and I trow I shall dissolve it well enough. Canni. What wouldest thou do, I pray thee, and if a man should say to thy teeth thou liest falsely, or else call the by thy right name knave in english. Poli. What would I do quod he, that is a question in deed, marry he should feel the weight of a pair of churlish fists I warrant the. Canni. And what and if a man gave you a good cuff upon the ear that should way a pound? Poliphe. It were a well given blow that would advantage him twenty by my truth and he escaped so he might say he rose upon his right side, but it were marvel & I cut not of his head hard by his shoulders. Canni. Yea but good follow thy gospel book teacheth the to give gentle answers, and fair words again for fowl, and to him that giveth the a blow upon the right cheek to hold forth the lift. Poliphe. I do remember I have read such a thing in my book, but ye must pardon me for I had quite forgotten it. Can. Well go to, what say ye to prayer I suppose ye pray very oft. Poli. That is even as very a touch of a pharesey as any can be. Cannius. I grant it is no less than a point of a pharesey to pray long and feignedly under a colour or pretence of holiness, that is to say when a man prayeth not from the bothum of his heart but with the lips only and from the teeth outward, and that in open places where great resort of people is, because they would be seen. But thy gospel book teacheth the to pray continually, but so that thy prayer come from the bothun of the heart. Poli. Yea but yet for all my saying I pray sometime. Can. When I beseech the when thou art a sleep? Poli. When it cometh in to my mind, once or twice may chance in a week. Can. what prayer sayest thou? Poliphe. The lords prayer, the Pater noster. Canni. How many times over? Poli. Onis, & I trow it is often enough, for the gospel forbiddeth often repeating of one thing. Canni. Can ye say your pater noster through to an end & have your mind running upon nothing else 〈◊〉 all that while? Poli. By my truth and ye will believe me I never yet assayed nor proved whether I could do it or no. But is it not sufficient to say it with my mouth? Can. I can not tell whether it be or no. But I am sure god here us not except we pray from the bothum of our heart. But tell me another thing I will ask the. Dost thou not fast very often? Poli. No never in all my life time and if it were not for lack of meat. Can. And yet thy book allows and commends highly both fasting and prayer. Polip. So could I allow them to but that my belly can not well affare nor away with fasting. Cannius. Yea but Paul saith they are not the servants of jesus Christ which serve their belly & make it their god. Do you eat flesh every day? Po. No never when I have none to eat, but I never refuse it when it is set before me, and I never ask question not for conscience but for my belly sake. Can. Yea but these strong sturdy sides of such a chuff and a lobbing lobye as thou art would be fed well enough with hay and bark of trees. Poliphe. Yea but christ said, that which entereth in at the mouth defileth not the man. Canni. That is to be understand thus if it be measurably taken, and without the offending of our christian brother. But Paul the disciple of christ had rather perish & starve with hunger than once to offend his weak brethren with his eating, and he exhorteth us to follow his example that in all things we may please all men. Poli, What tell ye me of Paul, Paul is Paul and I am I. Cannius. Do you gladly help to relieve the poor and the indigent with your goods? Poli. How can I help them which have nothing to give them, and scant enough for myself. Cannius. ye might spare something to help them with if thou wouldest play the good husband in living more war●●●, in moderating thy superfluous expenses, and in falling to thy work lustily. Poliphemus. Nay then I were a fool in deed, a penny worth of ease is ever worth a penny, and now I have found so much pleasure in ease that I can not fall to no labour. Canni. Do you keep the commandments of god? Polip. Now ye appose me, keep the commandments ꝙ he, that is a pain in deed. Cannius. Art thou sorry for thy sins and thine offences, dost thou earnestly repent the for them. Poliphemus. Christ hath paid the ransom of sin and satisfied for it already. Cannius. How provest thou then that thou lovest the gospel and favoris the word of god as thou bearest men in hand thou dost. Poliphemus. I will tell you that by & by, and I dare say you will confess no less yourself then that I am an earnest favourer of the word when I have told you the tale. There was a certain grey frere of the order of saint France's with us which never ceased to babble and rail against the new testament of Erasmus, I chanced to talk with the gentleman privately where no man was present but he and I, and after I had communed awhile with him I caught my frere by the polled pate with my left hand and with my right hand I drew out my dagger and I pomelled the knave frere welfavardly about his sconce that I made his face as swollen and as puffed as a puddynge. Cannius. what a tale is this that thou tellest me. Poliphemus. How say you is not this a good and a sufficient prove that I favour the gospel. I gave him absolution afore he departed out of my hands with this new testament thrice laid upon his pate as hard as I might drive that I made three bunches in his heed as big as three eggs in the name of the father, the son, & the holy ghost. Can. Now by my troth this was well done & like a right gospeler of these days. ●●●●ly this is as they say to dyffende the gospel with the gospel. Poliphe. I ●●t another grey frere of the same cury she covent, that knave never had done in railing against Erasmus, so soon as I had espied him I was stirred and moved with the brenning zeal of the gospel that in threatening of him I made him kneel down upon his knees and cry Erasmus mercy and desired me to forgive him, I may say to you it was high time for him to fall down upon his marrowbones, and if he had not done it by and by I had my halbarde up ready to have given him betwixt the neck and the head, I looked as grim as modie Mars when he is in furious fume, it is true that I tell you, for there was enough saw the frere and me if I would make a lie. Cannius. I marvel the frere was not out of his wit. But to return to our purpose again, dost thou live chastened? Poliphemus. Peradventure I may do here after when I am more stricken in age. But shall I confess the truth to thee? Canni. I am no priest man, therefore if thou wilt be shriven thou must seek a priest to whom thou may be lawfully confessed. Poliphe. I am wont still to confess myself to god, but I will confess thus moche to the at this time I am not yet become a perfit gospeler or an evangelical man, for I am but yet as it were one of the common people, ye know well perdie we gospelers have iiii. gospels written by the four evangelists, & such gospelers as I am hunt busily, and chiefly for four things that we may have. unde. to provide dainty fare for the belly, that nothing be lacking to that part of the body which nature hath placed under the belly, ye wot what I mean, and to obtain and procure such living that we may live wealthily and at pleasure without ●arke & care. And finally that we may do what we list without check or controlment, if we gospellars lack none of all these things we cry and sing for joy, among our full cups Io Io we triumph and are wonderful frolycke, we sing and make as merry as cup and can, and say the gospel is a live again Chryst raineth. Cannius. This is a life for an Epycure or a god belly and for no evangelical person that professeth the gospel. Poli. I deny not but that it is so as ye say, but ye know well that god is omnipotent and can do all things, he can turn us when his will is suddenly in to other manner of men. Cannius. So can he transform you in to hogs and swine, the which may sooner be done I judge them to change you in to good men for ye are half swynyshe & hoggyshe already, your living is so beastly. Poliphe. Hold thy peace man would to god there were no men that did more hurt in the world than swine, bullocks, asses, and camels. A man may see many men now adays more crueler than lions, more ravening than wolves, more lecherous than sparous, and that bite worse than mad dogs, more noisome than snakes, vepers and adders. Cannius. But now good Polypheme remember and look upon thyself for it is high time for the to lay a side thy beastly living, and to be turned from a brute and a savage beast in to a man. Poliphemus. I thank you good neighbour Cannius for by saint Mary I think your counsel is good/ for the prophets of this time saith the world is almost at an end, and we shall have domes day (as they call it) shortly. Cannius. We have therefore more need to prepare ourselves in a readiness against that day, and that with as much speed as may be possible. Poliphemus. as for my part I look and wait still every day for the mighty hand and power of christ. Cannius. Take heed therefore that thou, when christ shall lay his mighty hand upon the be as tender as wax, that according to his eternal will he may frame & fashion the with his hand. But whereby I pray the doth these prophets conjecture & gather that the world is almost at an end. Poliphe. Because men (they say) do the self same thing now adays that they did, and were wont to do which were living in the world a little while before the deluge or Noyes flood. They make solemn feasts, they banquet, they quaff, they booll, they bybbe, they riot men marry, women are married, they go a caterwauling and horehuntinge, they buy, they sell, they lend to usury, and borrow upon usury, they build, kings keep war one against another, priests study how they may get many benefices and promotions to make themself rich and increase their worldly substance, the divines make insolible sillogismus and unperfect arguments, they gather conclusions, monks and freers run, at rovers over all the world, the common people are in a maze or a hurly burly ready to make insurrections, and to conclude bravely there lacks no evil misery nor mischief, neither hunger, thirst felony, robbery, war, pestilence, sedition, dearth, and great scarsytie and lack of all good things. And how say you do not all these things argue and sufficiently prove that the world is almost at an end? Cannius. Yea but tell me I pray the of all thes hole heap of evils and miseries which grieveth the most? Poliphemus. Which thinks thou, tell me thy fancy and conjecture? Cannius. That the devil (god save us) may dance in thy purse for ever a cross that thou hast to keep him forth. Poliphe. I pray god I die and if thou have not it the nail upon the head. Now as chanceth I come newly from a knot of good company where we have drunk hard every man for his part, & I am not behind with mine, and therefore my wit is not half so fresh as it will be, I will dispute of the gospel with the when I am sober. Canni. When shall I see the sober? Poli. When I shall be sober. Cannius. When will that be? Poliph. When thou shalt seem, in the mean season god be with you gentle Cannius and well mote you do. Cannius. And I wish to you again for my part that thou were in deed as valiant or pusaunt a fellow as thy name soundeth. Poliphe. And because ye shall lose nothing at my hand with wishing I pray god that Cannius may never lack a good can or a stoop of wine or bear, whereof he had his name. FINIS ¶ The dialogue of things and names. A declaration of the names. BEatus, is he which hath abundance of all things that is good, and is perfit in all things commendable or praise worthy or to be desired of a good man. Sometime it is taken for fortunate, rich, or noble. Bonifacius, fair, full of favour or well favoured. ¶ The parson's names are Beatus and Bonifacius. BEatus. God save you master Boniface. Bonifacius. God save you & god save you again gentle Beatus. But I would god both we were such, and so in very deed as we be called by name, that is to say thou rich & I fair. Beatus. Why do you think it nothing worth at all to have a goodly glorious name. Bonifacius. Truly me think it is of no valour or little good worth, unless a man have the thing itself which is signified by the name. Beatus. Yea you may well think your pleasure, but I am assured that the most part of all mortal men be of another mind. Bonifa. It may well be I do not deny that they are mortal, but surely I do not believe that they are men, which are so beastly minded. Bea. Yes good sir and they be men to lay your life, unless ye think camels and asses do walk about under the figure and form of men. Boni. Marry I can sooner believe that then that they be men which esteem and pass more upon the name, than the thing. Bea. I grant in certain kinds of things most men had rather have the thing than the name, but in many things it is otherwise and clean contrary. Bo. I can not well tell what ye mean by that Bea. And yet the example of this matter is apparent or sufficiently declared in us two. Thou art called Bonifacius and thou hast in deed the thing whereby thou bearest thy name. yet if there were no other remedy but either thou must lack the one or the other, whether had you rather have a fowl and deformed face or else for Boniface be called Maleface or horner? Boni. Believe me I had rather be called fowl Thersites then have a monstrous or a deformed face, whether I have a good face or no I can not tell. Bea. And even so had I for if I were rich and there were no remedy but that I must either forgoo my richesse, or my name I had rather be called Irus which was a poor beggars name then lack my riches. Boni. I agree to you for as much as ye speak the troth, and as you think. Bea. judge all them to be of the same mind that I am of which are endued with health or other commodities and qualities appartayning to the body. Boni. That is very true. Bea. Yea but I pray the consider and mark how many men we see which had rather have the name of a learned and a holy man, then to be well learned, virtuous, & holy in deed. Boni. I know a good sort of such men for my part. Bea. Tell me thy fantasy I pray the do not such men pass more upon the name then the thing? Boni. Methynke thy do. Bea. If we had a logician here which could well and clerkly define what were a king, what a bishop, what a magistrate, what a philosopher is, peradventure we should find some among these jolly fellows which had rather have the name then the thing. Boni. Surely & so think I. If he be a king which by law and equity regards more the commodity of his people then his own lucre/ if he be a bishop which always is careful for the lords flock committed to his pastoral charge/ if he be a magistrate which frankly and of good will doth make provision, and doth all thing for the common wealths sake/ and if he be a philosopher which passing not upon the goods of this world, only giveth himself to attain to a good mind, and to lead a virtuous life. Bea. Lo thus ye may perceive what a number of semblable examples ye may collect & gether. Boni. undoubted a great sort. Bea. But I pray the tell me will you say that all these are no men. Boni. Nay I fear rather lest in so saying it should cost us our lives, and so might we ourselves shortly be no men. Bea. If man be a reasonable creature, how far dyffers this from all good reason, that in commodities appertaining to the body (for so they deserve rather to be called then goodness) and in outward gifts which dame fortune gives and takes away at her pleasure, we had rather have the thing than the name, and in the true and only goodness of the mind we pass more upon the name then the thing. Boni. So god help me it is a corrupt and a preposterours judgement, if a man mark and consider it well. Bea. The self same reason is in contrary things. Boni. I would gladly know what ye mean by that. Bea. We may judge likewise the same of the names of things to be eschewed, and incommodities which was spoken of things to be dissyred and commodities. Boni. Now I have considered the things well, it appeareth to be even so as ye say in deed. Bea. It should be more feared of a good prince to be a tyrant in deed then to have the name of a tyrant. And if an evil bishop be a thief and a robber, than we should not so greatly abhor and hate the name as the thing. Boni. Either so it is or so it should be. Bea. Now gather you of the rest as I have done of the prince & the bishop. Boni. Me thinks I understand this gear wondrous well. Bea. Do not all men hate the name of a fool or to be called a moome, a sot, or an ass? Boni. yes as moche as they do any one thing. Bea. And how say you were not he a stark fool that would fish with a golden bait, that would prefer or esteem glass better than precious stones, or which loves his horse or dogs better than his wife and his children? Boni. He were as wise as waltoms' calf, or madder than jack of reading. Bea. And be not they as wise which not assigned, chosen, nor yet one's appointed by the magistrates, but upon their own heed adventure to run to the wars for hoop of a little gain, ieoperding their bodies and daungering their souls? Or how wise be they which busy themself to get, gleyne, and reepe together, goods and riches when they have a mind destitute and lacking all goodness? Are not they also even as wise that go gorgeously apparylled, and builds goodly sumptuous houses, when their minds are not regarded but neglect filthy and with all kind of vice fowl corrupted? And how wise are they which are careful diligent and busy, about the health of their body neglecting and not minding at all their soul, in danger of so many deadly sins? And finally to conclude how wise be they which for a little short transitory pleasure of this life deserve everlasting torments and punishments? Boni. Even reason forceth me to grant that they are more than frantic and foolish. Bea. Yea but although all the whole world be full of such fools, a man can scaselye find one which can abide the name of a fool, and yet they deserve to be called so for asmuch as they hate not the thing. Boni. surely it is even so as ye say. Bea. Ye know also how the names of a liar and a thief are abhorred and hated of all men. Boni. They are spiteful and odious names, and abhorred of all men, and not with out good cause why. Bea. I grant that, but although to commit adultery be a more wicked sin than theft yet for all that some men rejoice and show themself glad of that name, which would be ready by and by to draw their swords and fight with a man that would or durst call them thieves. Boni. It is true there are many would take it evil as you say in deed. Bea. And now it is common to that point that though there are many unthrifts and spend als which consume their substance at the wine and upon harlots, and yet so willing to continue openly that all the world wonders at them, yet they will be offended and take pepper in the noose if a man should call them ruffians or bawdy knaves. Boni. Such fellows think they deserve praise for the thing, and yet for all that they can not abide the name dew to the thing which they deserve. Bea. There is scarcely any name amongs us more intolerable or worse can be abidden then to he called a liar or a lying fellow. Boni. I have known some or this which have killed men for such a spiteful word as that is. Bea. Yea yea but would god such hasty fellows did as well abhor the thing and hate lienge as well as to be called liars, was it never thy chance to be deceived of any man which borrowing money of the appointing the a certain day to repay the said money and so performed not his appointment nor kept his day? Boni. Ye as many times (god knoweth) and yet hath he sworn many a grievous oath and that not one time but many times. Bea. Peradventure he would have been so honest as to have paid it and if he had had wherewith. Boni. Nay that is not so for he was able enough, but as he thought it better never to pay his debts. Bea. And what call you this in english, is it not plain dying? Boni. Yes as plain as Dunstable way, there can not be a louder lie than this is. Bea. Durst you be so bold to pull one of these good debtors of yours by the sleeve and say thus to him, why hast thou deceived me so many times and broken promise with me, or to talk to him in plain english, why dost thou make me so many lies? Boni. Why no sir by my truth durst I not, except I were minded before to change half a dozen dry blows with him. Bea. Doth not masons, Brekelayers, Carpenters, Smythes, Goldsmiths, Tailors, deceive and disappoint us after the like manner daily promising to do your work such a day and such a day without any fail, or further delay, and yet for all that they parforme not their promise although it stand the never so much upon hand, or that thou shouldest take never so much profit by it. Boni. This is a wondrous and strange unshamefast knavery of all that ever I hard of. But and ye speak of breakers of promise than ye may reckon amongst them lawyers and attorneys at the law, which will not stick to promise or bear you in hand that they will be diligent and earnest in the furtherance and speedy expedition of your suit. Bea. reckon ꝙ he, nay ye may reckon six hundredth men's names beside these of sundry faculties and occupations which will promise more by an inch of a candle than they will perform by a whole pound. Boni. Why and ye call this dying all the world is full of such dying. Bea. Ye see also likewise that no man can abide to be called thief, and yet all men do not abhor the thing so greatly. Boni. I would gladly have you to declare your mind in this more plainly & at large Bea. What difference is there between him which stealeth thy money forth of thy coffer, and him which forsweareth and falsely denieth that which thou committed to his custody to be reserved and safely kept for thy use only, or to such time as thou art minded to call for it again. Boni. There is as they say neither barrel better hearing, but that in my judgement he is the falser knave of the twain which robs a man that puts his confidence and trust in him. Bea. yea but how few men are there now adays living which are content to restore again that which they were put in trust to keep, or if they deliver it again it is so dymynysshed, gelded, nipped, and pinched, that it is not delivered wholly, but some thing cleaves in their fingers, that the proverb may have place where the horse walloweth there lieth some hears. Boni. I think but a few that doth otherwise. Bea. And yet for all that there is none of all these that can abide it once to be called thief, and yet forsooth they hate not the thing so greatly. Boni. That is as true as the gospel. Bea. Consider me now and mark I beseech the how the goods of orphans, pupylls, wards, and fatherless children be commonly ordered and used, how wills and testaments be executed and performed, how legacies and bequethes be commonly paid, Nay how moche cleaveth and hangeth fast in the fingers of the executors or with them that minister and in termedle with the goods of the testators. Boni. Many times they retain and keep in their hands all together. Bea. Yea they love to play the thief well enough, but they love nothing worse than to here of it. Boni. That is very true. Bea. How little dyffers he from a thief which borroweth money of one and other and so runneth in debt, with this intent and purpose that if he may escape so or find such a crafty colour or a subtile shift, he intendeth never to pay that he oweth. Boni. Peradventure he may be called warer or more craftier than a thief is in deed but no point better, for it is hard choosing of a better where there is never a good of them both. Bea. yea but although there be in every place a great number of such makeshyftes and sliper merchants yet the starkest knave of them all can not abide to be called thief. Boni. God only knoweth every man's heart and mind, and therefore they are called of us men that are run in debt or fer behind the hand, but not thieves for that soundeth unswetely and like a plain song note. Bea. What skills it how they be called among men if they be thieves afore god. And where you say that god only knoweth every man's heart and mind, even so every man knoweth his own mind, whether in his words & doings he intend fraud, covin, deceit, and theft or no. But what say ye by him which when he oweth more than he is worth, will not stick to lash prodygallye and set the cock upon the hoop, and yet if he have any money at all left to spend that away unthryftely, and when he hath played the part of a knavish spendall in one city deluding and deceiving his creditors, runs out of this country and getteth him to some other good town, and there seeking for strangers and now acquaintance whom he may likewise beguile, yea and playeth many such like parts and shameful shifts. I pray the tell me doth not such a greek declare evidently by his crafty dealing and false demeanour, what mind is he of? Boni. yes surely as evidently as can be possible. But yet such fellows are wont to colour and cloak their doings under a crafty pretence. Bea. With what I beseech thee? Boni. They say to owe moche and to divers persons is commonly used of great men, yea and of kings also as well as of them, and therefore they that intend to be of that disposition will bear out to the hard hedge the port of a gentleman and so they will be taken and esteemed for gentlemen of the common people. Bea. A gentleman and why or to what intent and purpose a gentleman? Boni. It is a strange thing to be spoken how moche they think it is meet for a gentylnan or a horseman to take upon him. Bea. By what equity, authority, or laws. Boni. By none other but by the self same laws that the Admiralles of the sees challenge a propriety in all such things as are cast upon the shore by wrack, although the right owner come forth and challenge his own goods. And also by the same laws that some other men say all is theirs whatsoever is found about a thief or a robber when he is taken. Boni Such laws as these are the arrantest thieves that are might make themselves. Bea. yea and ye may be sure they would gladly with all their hearts in their bodies make such laws if they could maintain them or were of power to see them executed, and they might have some thing to lay for their excuse if they could proclaim open war before they fell to robbing. Boni. But who gave that privilege rather to a horseman then to a footman, or more to a gentleman than to a good yeoman. Bea. The favour that is showed to men of war, for by such shifts and thus they practise before to be good men of war that they may be more ready & handsome to spoil their enemies when they shall encounter with them. Boni. I think Pyrrhus did so exercise and break his young soldiers to the wars. Bea. No not Pyrrhus but the Lacedæmonians did. Boni. Marry sir hang up such practisers or soldiers and their practising to. But how come they by the name of horsemen or gentlemen that they usurp such a great prerogative? Bea. Some of them are gentlemen borne and it cometh to them by ancestry, some buy it by the means of maystries money, and other some get it by certain shifts. Boni. But may every man that will and list come by it by shifts? Bea. Yea why not, every man may be a gentleman now adays very well and if their conditions and manners be according. Boni. What manners or conditions must such one have I beseech thee? Bea. If he be occupied about no goodness, if he can ruffle it and swash in his satins and his silks and go gorgeously appareled, if he can ratle in his rings upon the fingers ends, if he can play the ruffian and the whoremonger and keep a gay whore gallantly, if he be never well at ease but when he is playing at the dice, if he be able to match as much an unthrift as himself with a new pair ●●●rdes, if he spend his time like an ●●●cure upon banqueting, sumptuous fare, and all kind of pleasures, if he talk of no rascals nor beggars, but brag, boast, face, brace, and crack of castles, towers, and skirmishes, and if all his talk be of the wars and bloody battles, and play the part of cracking Thraso thoroughly, such gay greeks, lusty brutes and ionkers may take upon them to be at defiance with whom they will and list, though the gentleman have never a foot of land to live upon. Boni. Call ye them horsemen. Marry sir such horsemen are well worthy to ride upon the gallows, these are gentlemen of the jebet of all that ever I have hard of. Bea. But yet there be not afewe such in that part of Germany called Nassen or Hessen. FINIS Translated by Edmonde Berke And printed at Cantorbury in saint Paul's parish by Iohn Mychell.