¶ A COUNTERPOISON, Modestly written for the time, to make answer to the objections and reproaches, wherewith the aunswerer to the Abstract, would disgrace the holy Discipline of CHRIST.  Luke 19 vers. 40. ¶ I tell you, if those should hold their peace, the stones would cry. 
AT LONDON; Printed by Robert Walde-graue.   

The Author to the Reader.  
IT is said of Solomon (who had no small experience in the course of all things) that much reading is weariness unto the 
Eccles. 12.  flesh; but it is most true, even in our own experience, that to deal with the untamed and untaught reason of man, is a vanity & vexation of spirit, unto those who love the truth. For what cunning shifts and exquisite variety of subtleties have they, to decline the mighty struck of the word of God? And it is no marvel, if we poor dullards be not only made blunt, but almost worn away with encountering with such tough ware. The only comfort we have is, that when the devil disputed, yea, continued disputing so long with the Son of God himself, he was at the length made to retire with those mild, and yet most powerful words: The Lord rebuke thee Satan. Which 
jud. 9  most ancient example, as it hath greatly sustained me in this toil of this tedious time, wherein I have had occasion to go barefoot through this quickset hedge of thorns, which the aunswerer to the Abstract hath set in our way: so it doth not a little grieve me, that I am jealous over myself, that I have not followed in such measure as I ought, that moderation which the son of God; The prince of Angels kept, when he encountered with the devil, notwithstanding, I deal (as I hope) with a brother. My comfort is, that it shall be manifest, that in steed of taking occasion where it was not given, I have swallowed down that, as sweet, which is most loathsome and bitter: I have also stayed my course within the compass of the first treatise, and the dangerous appendix annexed to the same; partly because I suppose he will not abuse so much the Scripture, as to wrest the defence of pluralities of Civil offices, in Ministers of God his word, of sole excommunication (which is already handled in this treatise by the scripture) and partly because the rest will for the most part pertain properly to the worthy Lawyer, who hath begun this controversy, and shall by the grace of God see a good end of the same. The Lord bring us all to be of one mind and heart in the truth.   

A FAITHFUL BROTHER to the Christian Reader.  
THE FEARFUL CONDItion (in regard of our sins) of this our age, and in this our Noble Country, may make thee (good Christian reader) and all, who love the peace of ZION, & the flourishing estate of this commonwealth; with heavy soul, and deep sighs of heart, to bewail the horrible wickedness of this land, even yet to this day increasing; if thou do but consider, that the hard and stony hearts (being continually watered with the sweet and heavenly dew of Gods most fatherly admonitions & forethreatning, from day to day dropping down by his messengers, rising early), is rather hardened then any whit mollified or humbled. So that neither the fearful signs in heaven and other creatures, as it were, by the breach of nature weeping over us; nor the horrible howling and quaking of the earth, trembling and fearing under us, hath as yet brought forth any further sorrow of our sins, then, that being amazed and astonished at the suddaines, wondering at the strangeness, and for a time, while our hearts did beat, lightly sorrowing at the fearfulness thereof, we made a show as though we would have turned to the Lord; but alas, we soon became like the children of Israel; who being put in fear with the great terror which God showed in pronouncing the Law in mount Syna, did promise to hear & obey Moses, who being but forty days and forty nights absent from them, and for them with the Lord: they fell away to their own imaginations. Since this, hath the Lord with strange sicknesses, at divers times, diversly visited us in our bodies; yea, our very hearts have been smitten with the fear of foreign practices, yet who is it that hath rightly ackowledged the hand of the Lord? Above all other things, this is to be soberly weighed with the equal balance of an upright conscience: that even now, on the one side, the common enemy to the state and Church of God among us, hath very villainously and traitorously, vowed himself, to put out the happy light of this most peaceable kingdom, even by desperate and slavish bloodsuckers, (alured and besotted, with the fair and fawning face of a man haired like a Woman, of these Locusts the Jesuits, who have stings in their tails, being like unto Scorpions,) to take away the precious life of our most gracious Queen ELIZABETH, our most dear sovereign, the joy and peace of all this Land: (the Lord for his Sons ●ake continue her blessed days among us, and confounded all their horrible practises:) on the other side, (like as it was in Jerusalem when Titus besieged it) what little faith and true love, (even from the tankard-bearer to men of high degree) he that seethe any thing, must needs behold and tremble. But O that I were able to power out my very heart: and that rivers of waters might flow out of mine eyes, that I might sufficiently bewail the desolation of Zion among us: yea, I could wish that my life though it were by a thousand deaths, might redeem the breaches of the Church of God among us. Whose heart doth not bleed to think that in so peaceable days & so blessed a time, under so Godly and religious a Princess, even when the fire of our neighbours most rueful miseries, doth flame about our ears: yea, and that the Lord hath almost drawn out his wrathful sword against us: every man followeth the pride, covetousness, whoredom, drunkenness and lusts of his own heart, and no man remembreth joseph? The bars are filled with pleadings, and the streets are full of the cries of the poor: fullness of meat and contempt is among us, and who considereth? Yet, if this our sin were only against men, and not against God, there might be some hope; But when the mouth of the blasphemous swearer, is not tied up, & the hands of the idolatrous generation of Atheiestes, & profane persons be not chained: When the most holy and precious word of God is manifestly contemned, the joyful and heavenly tidings of salvation, so negligently and ungratefully trodden under foot: the true and faithful messengers pursued, atained, and divers ways afflicted: then if the old world for malicious imaginations, Sodom and Gomorrha for pride, fullness of meat and unmercifulness: If jerusalem for abusing Gods prophets, & wilfulness were woefully destroyed, what may we poor careless people look for, if we do not repent (but as it is almost universally feared) speedy ruin & utter desolation? O ye shepherds of Israel be wise and understand, kiss the son lest he be angry, 
Psalm. 2.  seek the Lord whilst he may be found, make atonement with him, rest ye on God, and follow his ways [For the eyes of the Lord behold 
2. Chro, 16. 9  all the earth, to show himself strong with them that are of perfect heart toward him.] And you ye reverend fathers, which take upon you to rule the stern of God his ship, to your consciences be it appealed, whether you thrust not out of your brethren, faithful & skilful mariners, nourishing the idle & unfit: whereby it is come to pass, that thousands of souls are like to be drowned. Let be appealed unto your consciences, whether this your dealing, be not the only cause that this church of England hath suffered such disquietness? and whether you are not followers of such as have been disturbers of the churches in other countries? compare I pray you, your cause with their cause, and your proceeding with their proceeding: as namely, let the practices of the divines of PERGA in Germany, (for the maintaining of the error of consubstantiation, and ubiquity of Christ his body) be 
See admon. ad lib. concord de mod agend.  compared with your striving against the wholesome discipline of Christ [they were few] (as namely about six) & one bare the chiefest sway: & you are not so many, as that for your wills, all the Churches should be troubled in England, [they held the foundation] and so do you; [they had to do with their godly brethren] and so have you; [they shrouded themselves under the shadow of most famons men; as of Luther and Melancthon] and so do you, even of most blessed martyrs, and very learned fathers: [they having tried divers ways to establish their errors: at length devised a subscription to a book called (Liber concordiae,) thereby to draw a secret allowance of that which openly they could not so well set one foot]: You after many molestations and vexations of your brethren, even to the turning away of many good scholars, godly affected, from the study of divinity, have at the length contrary to allaw of God and man, offered violence to the consciences of your brethren▪ by a forced subscription; [they first won the magistrate, and made him their pretence, where their subtlety was espied]: and I pray God it be not laid to your charge, for your like dealing & pretences: [the Magistrates were hardly drawn to like of their purpose & manner of proceeding]: so am I persuaded that yours cannot long be covered [they pretended unity and entitled their subscription, a Book of Concord, and by that means made great discord and dissension] you cry out for conformity and good order, and nothing less is the issue of your proceed: you cry the peace of the Church, and who knoweth not, that if you would be humble to God, and loving to your brethren, and discharge your duty to her Majesty, but that these stumbling blocks and means of dissension, might long ago have been removed. For we are assured, [that as the Magistrates with them, did somewhat stay their fury], so if her Highness, of her Godly disposition and accustomed clemency, with her honourable Counsellors, had not been some Bridle to your unwise endeavours, there would hardly have been, ere this time, any peace for a faithful minister. [But how proceeded they? & what did they obtain? Even by fear and authority, they forced some to subscribe; some they won by fair words: to some they granted in secret limitation, which after they in open denied: some having subsci bed, afterward with great sorrow and anguish relented: some they removed from their charges, and some they continued with long and variable molestation: and finally, this was the good they brought to pass, that the people were distracted, many churches untaught, & great broils & confusion in many places.] So I would to God that every of those (that I may not say worse) were not too too true in you: only let it be appealed unto your conscience, that you suspended and deprived them, whom by la you ought to have first resolved, or endeavoured yourselves to have so done; and that by articles interrogatory you went about, & indeed entangled some of your brethren: with that pretence of law, which otherwise seemed to be wanting. And was this either charitable to your brethren, or agreeable to justice to your adversary, meet in a Bishop to those of his charge, that one should be punished before his cause be equally heard? And that he may not have a copy of the things laid to his charge, but be driven upon an oath to answer suddenly, & being deprived in a chamber, to be sent away without any certain knowledge of the causes of his deprivation. Let all men judge how this may beseem Christian Bishops, and grave fathers. But how have you made unity & conformity? even as one would open a door to all horrible confusion & uproar, if by the merciful providence of God it had not been stayed and prevented. It is high time therefore for you to repent and to show yourselves as true Elders, casting down your crowns before the Lamb. It is hard for you to kick against the prick. Remember 
Mat. 24. 48  what is written, [If the evil servant shall say in his heart, my Master doth defer his coming, and begin to smite his fellows, and to eat and drink with the drunken, that servants master will come in a day, when he looketh not for him, & give him his portion with hypocrites, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.] And all ye the inhabitants of this land turn ye to the Lord before it be too late: humble yourselves before the throne of his mercy: let every one change his heart and amend his own ways, that the Lord may have pity upon us, and our enemies prevail not against us. Pray ye for the peace of this Land, they that love the Lord, cease not crying till he have mercy upon us: And let the remembrance of our blessed sovereign be in all your supplications, that by the continuance of her happy & prosperous reign, his glorious Gospel may shine more and more, (as in the days of king josias) in brightness & beauty among us. And let this little treatise be unto thee (gentle and Christian reader) as a light and profitable glass from day to day to look in, that it may be a means to teach thee and stir thee up to pray for, and to seek by all lawful, quiet and Godly means, the refourmation of some things in our Church. For it is not the purpose thereof, (as God knoweth) to minister matter of civil contention, or that any man should rejoice in the strife of brethren, but with as much care as could be, tendering the peace of the church, to make apparent, simply and briefly the truth of godliness, in the things mentioned in this book, according to the word of God. And here we desire all men, and you the reverend Fathers of this land, & all godly brethren, to whom this may come, to judge charitably of this work, which tendeth to no other end, but that the truth being found, we might all join together in godly peace, & an holy union, to serve him joyfully together, from generation to generation. The reasons which specially did cause this matter to be taken in hand, are either in respect of the substance of several points in question, or of the time wherein they are brought in question. For first, considering that the question is not (as the aunswerer would bear the world in hand, & as in public sermons, it is every day uncharitably upbraided) about trifles, & things of no weight, as of variable ceremonies & matters of circumstances, which yet are to be squared by the sacred Canons of holy Scripture; but about matters of no small importance, even of the great and weighty cause of Christ's kingdom, by what laws and offices, his heritage is to be governed & protected: that is, of the whole Discipline of the Church of Christ, whether it be to be ordered by the uncertain and deceivable weights of human constitutions, or by the infallible Oracles of Gods most holy testimonies. And that the aunswerer doth very confidently challenge (as though not only by us, but byal churches reform in many writings very well known, he were not already answered): that by the word of God, we would prove a certain government of the Church under the time of the Gospel: and that this he doth very closlye and colourably at his pleasure, adding to, and detracting from the question (as in the treatise shall appear,) and with smooth words and artificial evasions, (though sometimes with more gall than comeliness, and more scoffing then substance,) labouring to cast a mist before the eyes of the Reader, and to bear down the cause with swelling words of vain ostentation. And concerning the time, seeing that now by the means of the unadvised stir, which by the reverend Fathers is made in this Church of England, all the faithful servants of Christ jesus, are in some sort called to bear witness unto the truth: and that without very good ground it were not meet, that any reasonable thing should be refused of such men as we be, not only to satisfy the expectation of all men, desirous to know the truth, but also to discharge our duty, to our Lord and Master jesus Christ, and to her gracious majesty, and all her good subjects: we could not keep the pen from paper, but were, as it were enforced to bear this necessary witness to a truth, not so much by the reason of man impugned and resisted, as by manifest and plain places of scripture to be approved and confirmed; and for the daily profit of the Church, most behoosefull of every man to be rightly understood, and in every Congregation with all reverence and diligence, to be practised and religiously observed. For, what man endowed with the fear of God, and a reverent love of his Prince, continually beholding the diligent hand of the seditious papists to wax stronger and stronger, through the stopping of the mouths of the sincere ministers, and so many (I might say innumerable) souls, for whom Christ jesus shed his most precious blood, to remain in miserable captivity and bondage of blindness and ignorance, the very chain of darkness and iniquity, for lack of teaching and instruction, and these nonresidents and blind guides, which in some sort make a pray of God his heritage, to be so cunningly underpropped and maintained: and so many things, of so evil nature in themselves, so pernicious to the church of God, so dangerous to the state of this common wealth, so offensive and burdenous to all people of any conscience and knowledge, to be so mightily backed and defended: what man I say, hearing and seeing the daily and pitiful complaints of the poor people for lack of good pastors, and of the rejoicings of wicked & evil men, in the trouble of the faithful Ministers, to the great dishonour of almighty God, and contempt of many most wholesome Laws, by her most excellent Majesty set forth and established▪ can be so careless and undutiful, as not to apply himself in some sort or other, that these great enormities may be detected and removed. Accept therefore (gentle reader) the godly labours which were employed in setting forth this little Treatise, & think it not strange, that it cometh forth so soon or so suddenly, but take it as a stay & an help unto thee, till some more larger discourse shallbe adventured, wherein the holy scripture is made the only judge of this controversy, & so much as concerneth the reasons of the laws of this land is nothing at all touched, as well because the purpose of this reply, was to instruct the conscience by the proper means thereunto ordained of God; as because the shortness of time could not suffer any more, & the pen which written this, is of an other profession. weigh well and examine the reasons here inserted, with the just and even balance of God his holy sanctuary, and let thine eye be single in judging, and no doubt but (thorough God his grace) though peradventure the stile may be somewhat harsh, and every point not so finely adorned with the flowers of man's eloquence; yet the plain & simple evidence of the truth, even in her nakedness and proper beauty, shall so shine and cast her bright beams into thy conscience, that if thou reap not so much profit as were to be wished, at the least wise, this cause may receive more favourable interpretation, and be esteemed as a thing worthy of due consideration. Thus hoping of the blessing of God towards thee, and of thy charitable receiving of the labours which were enterprised to do thee good; I cease any further to hold thine eyes from the work itself: most humbly beseeching God, even the father of our Lord ●esus Christ, to be merciful unto this land; to give us speedy and unfeigned repentance, to turn his plagues from us, to overturn and confound the devilish and bloody treacheries of all seditious, popish, and other traitorous underminers of the state, to plant true and godly love among us, and to set up the kingdom of his son according to his word, to the prosperous continuance of the most honourable and peaceable estate, of the Queen's highness; to the rejoicing of all faithful and true hearted subjects, and to the glory of his most holy name for ever. Amen.   

Faults escaped.  
Page 32. line 12. for Nicodemia, read Nicomedia. pa. 43. lin. 5. for would, read should. pa. 56. lin. 6. for rotten, read rotten pa. 80. l. 11. for. from, read after. p. 91. l. 11. for by, read of. pa. 92. li. 1. after God, read doth pa. 120. li. 7. for he, read they. pa. 105. li. 6. after upon, read us. pa. 128 line. 10. read exercise ceasing. pa. 131. li. 20. for commit read commute. pa. 133. li. 3. for railing, read calling. pa. 146. li. 1. for haste, read his own heart. pag. 157 li. 13. for truth, read. fruit.   

❧ Of the certain form of Ecclesiastical Government, prescribed by the Word of God, and perpetual for all ages.  
FOR as much as the purpose of this treatise, is with all modesty and peace to give clear evidence to the truth; it was thought fittest for the cause, and most profitable for the Christian Reader, to set down under certain heads, the several assertions and reasons, which are here and there scatteringly enforced by the answer to the Abstract, against the several branches of the holy government, which Christ Jesus hath asigned for the ordinary policy of his Church. Amongst which, that requireth the first place, which is the ground of all the rest, concerning the certain form of government, which he hath prescribed for his Church. His words be these.  
I do therefore say and offer in the name of the learned, to him or other to consider of, that it is taken by us for an undoubted truth, the contrary whereof, by no proof we do assure ourselves can be showed, that there are not set down in particular by Scripture, or by necessary collection to be gathered, all circumstances of policy, government, Discipline, and ceremonies necessary and uniformally to be used in every several Church: and that the Christian Magistrates and governors, are not in the said former points (whereof something is touched in Scripture) of necessity tied to that precise form that is there set down, but to the general Doctrine concerning them, to wit, that all be done to edifying, orderly, comely, and such like, page. 33. And again, ask whether all reformed Churches are disciplinated alike he saith, Nay; they neither are, can be, nor yet need so to be: seeing it cannot be proved, that any set & exact particular form thereof, is recommended to us by the word of God, pag. 58. And again, pag. 60. To the former assertion he addeth this reason: For else how could the Primitive Church without any prescript word, (I do not only say, have brought in a new ceremony) but have altered the Sabbath day by God appointed at the first, and being our Saturday to the first day of the week, in the Scripture twice or thrice called the lords day, and with us Sunday: or yet the time of receiving the Sacrament of the Eucharist, being according to the institution usually received after Supper, to have it received as it is in the morning, fasting.  
In which assertions, there is so little plain dealing and so much untruth, as of y● one side they savour of subtlety, so on the other side they have very small taste of sound divinity. For first, when as the Question was of Discipline, to be administered as the Lord commanded, that is, of the substantial form of Christ's government, he carrieth it to the ceremonies and circumstances of Discipline, as if when the Apostle commandeth to keep the form of wholesome doctrine: one should answer, it is not certain, because the circumstances rites, & times of it are variable. Which also casteth a strong sent of the romish practise, who to make a way to their additions and detractions in the matter of the Sacrament and otherwise, fly unto the circumstances of time, number, persons, and such like. Test. Rem. in annot. John. 6. verse 58. the which they say the Church may alter and change. The second subtlety is, that when the state of the question is propounded, as that which is the difference between us, the very point of it is so obscurely and doubtfully set down, as one can hardly attain unto his meaning. For when he saith the Magistrates are not in the said former points tied to the precise form, etc. He leaveth it doubtful, whether by points are meant the particular circumstances of policy, government, discipline and ceremonies, (which if they be, he cometh no nearer the questions, than things variable to things certain and unchangeable): or whether he meaneth the things themselves, to wit, policy, government, discipline, which if he do, than he is become an overturner of all the assertions of former divines whatsoever. For then, if the Magistrate think it for order and comeliness, Ecclesiastical censure shall be administered by civil persons, laymen, as he speaketh, men may be excommunicated before they be summoned, in a private corner, not in the Congregation: then the Magistrate may cause the Deacons form to become the form of the Bishop, and the bishop's form the form of a Deacon. Finally, than the several members of Christ's body their forms, and specifical differences may be altered and changed as seemeth good unto men: then Princes may ordain Bishops, as Bishops sometimes anoint Princes: Finally, than the sovereign Magistrates may themselves become Ecclesiastical officers, and Church-ministers, which at once undermineth not only the Church-discipline of God, which we require to be exact, according to God his word, but also even the formal distinction of offices, censures and matters Ecclesiastical, which all other Churches and even ours have established, are made arbitrary and changeable, seeing they are not tied to the precise form of these things. It is palpable darkness also which he saith, that all Churches are not disciplinated alike, because any set and exact particular form thereof, is not commended unto us in God his word. Which if he mean of the set form of 
Beza praefat. before the new Testament. Hermonia confess. page 53. gall. confess. art. 29.  ecclesiastical government, all reformed churches acknowledge it, & either have it or seek it, and distinguish it in all their writings from the variable ceremonies or circumstances of the same, as appeareth by the places quoted in the margin: if he mean it of circumstances of places, times, numbers and such like, he calleth that to question, which none ever made doubt of. Now, besides this confusion in propounding the Question, the reasons of the assertion are full of untruth. First, the allegation of the alteration of the Saboth, borrowed from the Jesuits annot. Apo. 1. 10 (saving that they have for shame limited that which he left at large, saying, they did it without all commandment of Christ which they read of) is not as he setteth down justifiable by the Scriptures: namely, that they did it without prescript commandment from Christ. For seeing the Apostles having by God his commandment, kept the Jews Saboth for the week gone afore, when 
Genes. 2.  the time of the alteration of the ceremony of that particular day was come, did for observation of the moral commandment of celebrating one day in seven, ordain and keep the next day for the week following, calling it and making it the lords day, as the other 
Acts. 20. 7. 1. Cor. 16. 1. 2  was the Lords Saboth: it is manifest that when this cannot be altered, without breach of the moral proportion 
revel. 1. 10.  of one in seven, that therein they had direction from Christ: according to those words: Teaching them to keep what soever I command you. Mat. 28. 20. If it be asked where in the Gospel this is commanded and prescribed of Christ: let him show the like of those which the Apostle speaketh of, 1. Cor. 11 2. & cap. 14. 37. Concerning the change of the time in the Lord's supper, as it is a mere circumstance of time, so the alteration hath ground in the scripture, because one and the same time is not always kept: Act. 3. 42. Act. 20. 7. 11. etc. Neither can that be said to be according to the institution, which being done upon a particular cause (as all Divines agree) should not be observed where that cause ceaseth. Thus his assertions & reasons being touched, here followeth a plain declaration of the truth, as to satisfy his request or challenge: Namely, that the whole substance of the ordinary government of the church, that is to say, the unchangeable laws of the holy things, of Offices, callings, examinations, abdications, executions, & of the reason and distinction of every one of them, is prescribed of God in his holy word, as a perpetual Law unto his Church: And although every particular rite & order (which are variable according to the circumstance, be not so particularly mentioned) yet are they by certain general rules so limited and prescribed, that no Church can use them 
Exod. 35. 36. & 39 42. 43. 1. Chron. 13. 2. 10. 11. 1. Chron. 15. 13. 1 chron. 29. vers. 12. 13 2. Chron. 13. 9 10 11. 2. Chron. 9 26., 2. Chro. 29. 25. Neh. 10. 29.  at their pleasure, but aught to frame them within the bounds set unto them of God, which may appear by these reasons following. First, seeing under the Law, God by the ministry of Moses did precisely this thing for the government of his Church then, so that neither David nor Nehemias might alter any thing, but by especial revelation from God by his Prophets, it were to make God less careful of his Church under the gospel, & to make the ministry of Moses more excellent than that of Christ, unless in like manner he had performed the same. For Christ being a King, hath prescribed 
1. Cor. 12. 4. Heb. 3. 1. 2. 3. 4. etc.  Laws for his government, and as he is a Lord, hath ordained the divers administrations of his Church, and in this respect, was faithful as Moses in 
Heb. 3. 1. 2. 3. 4. etc.  all his house. Again, seeing the Apostles having been taught of him by the space of forty days, the things which pertain to his kingdom, Act. 1. 3. that is, (as the Jesuits themselves are compelled to confess) the whole regiment of Christ's Church, did thereupon set down such orders for the same. 1. Tim. 3. 15, and give charge that they should be kept unblamably. 1. Tim. 5. 21. 
Ta leiponta epithiorthose hos ego soy dietaxamen.  otherwise then which, neither Timothy nor Titus might perfect that in the government of the Church, which the Apostles had begun: and say, that they which are spiritual, must acknowledge their orders in this behalf to be the commandments of our Lord. 1. Corin. 14. 37. and will their ordinances in this behalf to be kept, as they delivered them, 1. Cor. 11. 2. and even in the matter of the maintenance of the ministry, would speak not according to man, but according to the Law of God and the ordinance of the Lord, 1. Cor. 9 8. 14. then every one that is spiritual, must acknowledge the former position to be true. Thirdly, seeing Christ hath expressly in his Word, set down sufficient ordinary ministries, of 
a Rom. 12. 5. 6. 7. 1. Cor. 12. 28 Ephe. 4. 11. 1. Tim. 3. & 5. 17.  Exhorters, Teachers, Elders, Deacous, with their proper 
b Rom. 12 7. 8. 1. Cor 2. 4. 8  gifts and works, of exhorting, teaching, diligent watching, & distributing, for the administering of the 
c Act. 3. 42 Math. 18. 17. 18. 1. Cor. 5. 12. Luke. 21. 4. Acts. 6. 3.  holy things, as the word, Prayer, Sacraments, censures and treasury, and hath ordained the 
d Math. 18 17. 18. 1. Tim. 5. 17. 1. Tim. 4. 14.  Eldership, for the joint government in every particular Congregation with 
e Acts. 15. 6. &  Synods for matters common to many Churches: it followeth, that the former assertion is undoubtedly true. Fourthly, seeing the Apostle Paul (who received this as the rest of the Gospel by revelation) did uniformally plant the same government in all churches, as appeareth by comparing the story of the Acts with Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. 1. Tim. & epist. to Titus, it is manifest, they had a form prescribed them by Christ to follow, even as Moses did all things according to the pattern showed him in the mount. Again, seeing it is not in the power of man to alter or change these offices by addition or detraction, because they cannot give nor take away 
Rom. 12. 4. 5 1. Cor. 12. 3. 4. 5.  members to and from Christ's body, but all the gifts are from one spirit, the faculties from one God, the administrations from one Lord: and finally, all Church ministries must be from heaven and not from earth, as Christ saith, & the Scribes themselves confess. Then is 
Math. 21. 25. john. 1. 25.  there in the word of God, such an unchangeable rule of government, as is before declared? Lastly, seeing God in altering the outward face of his church under the Gospel, diverse from that under the law, in regard of the ceremonies abolished, and of things according to the riches and simplicity of the Gospel, enlarged: did as well keep the substance of the Church's administration, (namely, in ordaining for 
a Deut. 31. Ephe. 4. 11.  Priests, Pastors; for teaching 
b Nehe. 8. Ephe. 4. 11.  levites or Doctors of the law, Teachers; for 
c 2. Chron. 2. King. 6. 32 Act 13. 15. and. 4. 8. 1. Cor. 12. 28  rulers of the synagogue, Churh-governors or Elders; for their 
d Ne. 13. 4. Acts. 6. 2. Chron. 23  levitical lookers to the treasury, Deacons, for their 
e Ezra. 10. 8 Luke. 22 66. Act. 5. 27, 1. Tim. 4. 14.  presbytery, the eldership). As he kept the holy things to be administered, that is, for the law and the Prophets, together with them the writings of the new Testament for the passover, & Circumcision Baptism, & the supper of the Lord; 
a Lu. 21. 14 1. Cor. 16. 1.  for their gifts of God, gathering for the Saints, or Church-treasury; for their 
b Leu. 7 18 jerem. 36. 5. Math. 5. 23. 1. Cor. 11. 28  suspension from the Temple-sacrifices, our separation from the Lords supper: for 
c Goe 27. 14. john. 9 34. 22. Mat 18 17. 1. Cor. 5.  their casting out of the Synagogue & cutting off from the people, our excommunication. It is evident that that which God kept for the time of the Gospel, he did in perfect wisdom ordain and prescribe, and that which Christ did enrich and enlarge, he would not have men cut of and abolish. Wherefore, if they will still roll the stone of man's power, to alter and change this order of God, let them show how men can take away that which God hath set 
1. Cor. 12. 28  in his Church: let them show how that is not perpetual, which is grounded upon those gifts which serve for the ordinary necessities of the church in all times and places, yea, let them show how they can more wisely instruct the people with doctrine, feed them with exhortation, rule their souls with spiritual power, chastise them with an holy rod, and provide for their earthly necessities: then the Lord hath done, and still offereth to do by the word of knowledge in his Teachers, by the word of wisdom in his Pastors, by the continual watch of his Elders, by the spiritual keys of his kingdom, and by his merciful and liberal providing for the needy. And if it be a shame to prefer man's wisdom before the wisdom of God, at the least let them declare by what authority they will compel the Church to refuse the strong arm of God, for the weak arm of flesh and blood. To these reasons may be added the testimonies of the Fathers, as of CYPRIAN. IN SERMONE DE BAPTIS. CHRIST. The Christian religion shall find that out of this Scripture, rules of all doctrine have sprung, and that from hence doth spring and hither doth return, whatsoever the Ecclesiastical discipline doth contain. And the same author, DE PRESCRIPT. ADVERS. HERET. We may not give ourself the liberty to bring in any thing that other men bring of their will, we have the Apostles for Authors, which themselves brought nothing of their own will, but the Discipline which they received of Christ, they delivered faithfully to the people. Which sentences, seeing they can not be understood of the circumstances, must be taken of the Substantial points which we have declared. So the same Author speaking of the like matter, EPISTOLA LIB. 1. EPIST. 8. It is adulterous, it is wicked, it is sacrilegious, whatsoever is ordained by humane fury, that the divine disposition should be violated. To the like effect LIBERIUS the Roman Bishop, requireth of the Emperor, To leave the truth as it is in this behalf, or else to make all new. THEODORET in the sixteen Chapter of the second book of the Ecclesiastical history, which their judgement shall be most manifestly avouched in the particular parts of this discipline of God, which follow. And thus much for the first and most general point, which giveth both light and strength unto the rest. Now because himself willeth the particular plat to be laid and proved in the particulars which hath long ago been done in many books, and namely in the book of Ecclesiastical Discipline, which hath received no answer as yet, as whatsoever on their side (of any worthiness) hath seen the light hath been answered, it shall be very profitable both to answer him and to maintain the truth in those particulars wherein he seeketh to undermine the same: and first of the general property of the Offices, and then of the Offices themselves.  

Of Election with consent of the people.  
COncerning Election, the words of this answerer be these, Pag. 83. I do think verily that in no Church the whole number of the people are permitted to have a free Election of their Pastor, etc. Pag. 88 Also her Majesty, being the head member of this church, whether she shall be allowed a voice by her highness proctor, among the people of one parish alone, or in all parishes in the realm, in choosing their minister, & what voice? whether a negative, countermanding all others or no? or whether her highness shall have no suffrage therein at all? Both which, if they be not to the derogation of her highness prerogative royal, let indifferent and wise men judge. And a little before in the same page: I will only put this great canonist in mind, of the 13. chap. of the counsel of Laodicea, which doth forbid these elections by the multitude or people, which, as Origin saith, is pricked forward or carried away, with clamours, favour or reward. And to the same effect, page. 97. Item page 99 he objecteth thus. So that by this reckoning, men women and children (for all the faithful be interested:) shall have voices in election of their Ministers; If any dissent, all must be dashed if we follow that rule. Again page 100 For his flock is but an handful in comparison of hypocrites, and many are called but few are chosen: neither are all true believers always endowed, with such measure of wisdom and discretion, as that they are able to sound the aptness of a man in learning for the ministry: nor yet have all so profited in true mortification, as that they can wean themselves from those disordered affections, which cleave fast to every one of us, either more or less, so long as we remain in this world, and therefore in such cases the more that do deal in any action, the more disorderly & troublesome for the most part it falleth out to be. To the second I say, it containeth a promise of such quietness and peaceable issues of this popular election, as if you turn over ecclesiastical histories, never or seldom hath happened but the clean contrary. And a little after. Now it had been very requisite that our Author, for the appointing of these democratical elections the better unto us, should with proof out of scripture for every particular, have showed whether Women or children of some reasonable discretion, should have voices in the election of their Minister? whether he should be chosen by all, by the greater part, or by the better part? Whether the wives voice should be accounted several, or but one with her husband, or whether she night descent from her husband, or the father from the son? Whether the Patron not dwelling in the Parish shall have a voice, or dwelling there but a single voice? Whether the greater number of voices shall be accounted in respect of all the Electors, or only in respect of him which is to be chosen, having more voices than any other hath? Whether all absent, shall be accounted to descent, or to assent? Whether sick men or other necessarily employed that would come and cannot, may send the Proctor being no parishioner, or compromit their voice to a Parishioner? Item Page 94. Discoursing largely about the places of Scripture alleged to this purpose. He saith: that course of election mentioned in the Acts, was not undertaken for satisfying any express commandment by Christ, but upon an especial occasion of the mutiny of the Greeks against the Hebrews. Again in that page 94. that of the Acts, speaketh of Deacons only, and is not read elsewhere in all points to have been observed, either in choosing of an Apostle Act. 1. of Ministers, Acts. 2. or of Bish. Titus. 1. There also the whole multitude made choice without the Apostles, who meant thereby to avoid all suspicion of corrupt dealing. Which two circumstances, no man will I hope require, in the choosing either of a Bishop or a Minister: especially that the Bishop and other of the Clergy shall be debarred from any stroke in that action, seeing therein there cannot be the like cause of suspicion. Also the Apostle calleth them together, and prescribed unto them what they should do in that point of external policy, and that according to the present occasion offered, without any prescript word, but only by the instinct of God's spirit. Further, that the Apostles set out the quality of the men to be chosen, but tied them to no certain form of election to be observed, neither do we read what form of election they then used. Again, that the Disciples were to look out and chose such, as they thought fit to be trusted with the Church-stocke, but the Apostles reserved to themselves the appointing of them to their office, if they should be found to be such as were described. Moreover, that the Deacons were appointed for the further ease of the Apostles in some part of their function. Lastly, that the disciples presented them to the Apostles censures: who by imposition of hands did as it were consecrate and authorize them to the function of Deaconship. Now if by this act our author mind so hard to curb up all churches, as that he will accuse them to give a counterbuff to the holy ghost, which in their ordinations do not agree herewith in all circumstances: or that he will tell us that something extraordinary was here in this action not to be followed, then must he show by direct Scripture what was ordinary and what was extraordinary, and must reconcile other places of Scripture concerning like action, which do not agree in all points with this. In the first of the Acts, two were presented, one is chosen by lot and no imposition of hands: here seven are chosen, the manner not set down by the multitude, and being presented to the Apostles, they all appoint them and lay their hands on them. In the 14. of Acts, Paul and Barnabas are said Chirotonesasthai autois presbuterois, and to have fasted, but no mention is made of imposion of hands: here all the Apostles did appoint them House katastesomen. In the first to Titus, he only is willed to appoint priests, Hina catasteses presbuterous, according as Paul prescribed unto him. Nay, let him show unto me any two reformed Churches of divers nations, jump in all circumstances heereaboutes, or any one of them which permitteth this action, (without intermeddling of the chief Pastors) unto all the Disciples or multitude of believers in the said Church, which yet have an interest in having a good Minister, but as I take it, the chief sway and moderating of such actions, are in all other reformed Churches in such men, to whom this trust is especially recommended. And hath not likewise (for avoiding of sundry inconveniences) the whole Church and Realm of England by Parliament (whereunto every man in the eye of the law is said to have consented) reposed this trust in a few chosen men of ecclesiastical function? Even M. Beza himself, concerning the place of the 
Lib. confess. cap. 5.  Acts, doth say, There is no cause why hereof any man should prescribe any special rule, but if the conscience be upright, it will be easy to set down what is expedient, according to the circumstances of time and places. The reply unto the former words.  
Although the aunswerer in this large and tedious discourse, hath brought no new matter in substance, which hath not already been sufficiently refelled, so as no new encounter by public writing (as a supply) hath been made against the same, yet shall it not be without fruit to the reader: First, to note out his tumultuous and insincere dealing, his contrariety with himself, his agreement with the Papists, and then (having particularly laid open the nakedness of his several objections) briefly as before, to set down the plain & simple truth out of the Scripture. His tumultuous and insincere dealing appeareth, in that, pretending to have greatly sifted the writings of this controversy, and to have exact knowledge of the orders of reformed Churches in this behalf, he is not ashamed in stead of incountringe with the truth, to frame himself an unknown adversary, that is, in steed of overthrowing the consent of people in Churchelections, to make war against a mere popular Election, not governed with the fore-direction of the Elders, which hath no ground in the scriptures, and was never maintained (as himself confesseth) but by anabaptists: and in steed of manly buckling with the substantial points of Church-election, with the foreleading of the Presbytery, with the due consent of the people, cowardly to betake himself unto the changeable circumstances of the same; as who should present, the Elders or the people; how the people should signify their consent by lifting up their hands, or otherwise by themselves or by proctor's, and divers such other. Which in the particular answer following shall be declared, how according to the word of God they may upon divers circumstances, be diversly carried. His contrariety to him self is apparent by these three particoloured assertions. First, that the people did chose without the Apostles. Secondly, they were to choose, but the Apostles reserved to themselves the appointing of them to their office, if they should be found to be such as were described. Thirdly, that the people presented them to the Apostles censures. For, that he saith, they chose without the Apostles, is directly contrary to that he saith, they presented them to the Apostles Censures, so that their Election was to be disannulled and made none, unless by the examination of the Apostles they were found answerable to their description. His agreement with the papists, and namely with the Romish Remists Testament, doth notably appear, in that they appointing, (as he doth) the fift verse of the 1. of Titus, to the consent of the people in the Election of their Minister, they do more briefly, but as fully and plainly, and with more courtesy to the truth set down both his assertions, reasons and ancient Testimonies, in these few words following.  
And here it seemeth that he did not only consecrate them whom the people had elected before, but himself also made choice of the persons, no mention being here made of any other election popular, which though it were long used in the primitive Church, yet for divers causes, and specially for continual tumults, partialities, and disorders which Saint Augustine much complaineth of in his time, was justly taken away, and other better means of their designment appointed. See council. Laodic. cap. 12. 13. So much the Papists. Again, how he jumpeth with the spirit of these Jesuits (saving that still they yield more to the truth than he) in saying, That the Apostles showed the people what to do, without any prescript word, but only by the instinct of God's spirit: may appear by their words which they use upon the like occasion of Peter, in their annotation on the 15. verse of the 1. Chapter of the Acts: Which Peter (say they) did, not upon commandment of Christ written, but by suggestion of God his spirit, and by understanding of the Scriptures of the old Testament to that purpose. So far the papists: And thus much generally of his discourse. Now of his particular objections, the first is, that he thinketh in no Church the whole number of people to have free election of their Pastor. If by free election he mean the due consent of the people, either he speaketh against his knowledge, or he knoweth not that he pretendeth, seeing their confessions other their writings and practise, do (in the knowledge of all those which know any thing in this matter,) evidently convince him, as may appear by the quotations in the 
Harmonia confess. pag. 43. Sect. 11. Hel. 1. Art. 16 Beza confes. 5 point cap. 35. P. Mart. in 1. Cor. 16 Musc. in title of the Ministers.  margin. If he mean, that the people should bear the whole sway without the government and direction of the Elders, he misseth the mark whereat he aimeth. Concerning the Queen's majesties prerogative royal, which he would gladly oppone against the consent of the people in Churchelections: First, he could not be ignorant but that all acknowledge that the Christian magistrate as a principal member of the congregation where he is, aught to have an interest in the election answerable to his place, aswell for advise as consent. Secondly, the supreme magistrate, according to the high authority which God hath committed unto him over all Churches in his dominions, both lawfully may & by duty ought, not only to disannul whatsoever election the Elders and people have unlawfully made, but also by his civil pre-eminence to compel them to make a new election according to the word of God. Which, as it is as much as the sole election by the Bishop, giveth to the Prince, yea or rather more: so if they can show any further thing due unto the Magistrate, all such as with a sincere mind, seek for the reformation of the Church, are always as ready with all humbleness to give it, as they will be willing with singleness to show it. To the place of the Council of Laodicea and Origin, let this be the answer. The meaning of the Council, in those words, Non populo concedendum electionem facere, etc. We ought not to give leave to the people to make election, is, they should not bear the whole sway without the government or direction of the Elders, and not to shut out the due consent of the people, as is manifest, by the counsels going afore, as shall hereafter appear, against which, this counsel would not have decreed, unless it had repealed the same or showed some reason, but most of all by Counsels following, who have authorized the consent of the people: and namely, the 4. of Carthage, which was confirmed in the sixth general Counsel at Trullum, together with that of Laodicia, which would not have confirmed contrary decrees. The words are these, When he (speaking of the bishop) shall be examined in all these and found fully instructed, then let him be ordained with the consent (Clericorum & laicorum) of the Clerks & lay men. As for that of Origin, it is nothing to the purpose, which he saith of the people, except there could be some privilege showed that partly the same, or such like as dangerous infirmities were not to be found in a Bishop. The next reason maketh as much against the election of Bishops as of the people, seeing they may be hypocrites as well as the people, & in all men's judgement one man is sooner carried with ambition & covetousness, than an whole Church of godly Elders, and Christian people unto disorder. And if for the contentions & strivings of the people, the church may abrogate the consent of the people in Ecclesiastical elections, them may she by the same authority, disannul Synods and Counsels, which as often have been full of rage and uproars: and of which Nazianzen saith, He never saw good issue, but that through marvelous ambition & desire of contention, things out of order were not remedied but made worse. Epist. 42. ad procopt. Neither for this cause, as the promise of God made to counsels is not lightly to be regarded, so ought he not thus profanely to reject it when it is brought to uphold that consent of the people, Further, where as he saith that Churches both of elder & later times, have for that cause abandoned such elections, it is to be thought he can bring as much for the proof of it, as he hath already alleged, which is nothing. Whatsoever he can do, the Doctrine of the ancient Fathers, and the examples of the elder Churches is far otherwise. For Chrysostom upon Acts 1. answering the Question, why Peter communicated the election with the Disciples, saith, Lest the matter should be turned into a brawl, and have fallen to a contention. For the elder Churches he cannot be ignorant, how many have been troubled with such inconveniences, and yet have not sought such extreme remedies; nay, the example of good Constantine the Emperor is notable, who when the citizens of Nicodemia had chosen an Arrian, a runagate and a railer on the Emperor, he did not take away the Church's consent, but by his Letters according to his duty, moved them to a new. Theodoret lib. 1. Cap. 19 Again, if these infirmities of the people be a good reason to take away their liberty in the Election of their Ministers, than the contrary virtues, which oftentimes have been found in them, in staying the rage of the Scribes and pharisees, Mat 21. 26. Acts 3. 26. in preferring catholic persons before Arrians, and in being themselves catholics when their Bishops have been heretics, Zozo. lib. 7. cap, 7. Theodo. lib. 2. cap. 7. is a good reason to maintain their liberty ●till. As concerning his questions following, which as they declare rather a mind given to cavil at that which he cannot by sound reason avoid, so are they easily answered out of the course and proportion of truth in the Scripture. Women not being in the seat of Magistracy are forbidden by the Apostle to speak in such public assemblies, and exercise authority over men. Which rule being spoken of the mother, doth also bar children and such as shall be in greater subjection, until by years and Christian knowledge, they shall by the judgement of the Church, grow unto the liberty of Christians in that behalf: and then if they follow the greater and better part, their sentence ought to prevail. As for the Question of the Patron, seeing it is a constitution not of God but of man, let the wise and skilful lawyers define, so they do no iviury to the holy truth of GOD and his Church. The next Question is vain and frivolous. For first, by due authority, divers be propounded and the Church consent to have one of them, it must needs be, that he which is approved of the Elders and hath most voices, must receive the charge, seeing that can not be said to be done with general consent (which thing the Scripture giveth to Churchelections) where the fewest, but where the most directed aright, do agree. And as for them that be absent, sick, or employed, if they have any thing of weight to signify to the Church, the Church is to hearken unto them by whom soever they send their advise. And as it is no reason that when either sickness or their duty to the Church, do withhold them that should abridge that liberty: so if by negligence or wilfulness, they be absent after competent warning, the whole Church is not to depend upon them, who do not so much lose as cast away their interest in the election. Lastly, who seethe not that any idle brain may make these and such like demands, both against the rules in the Scriptures, and the observation in the primitive Church. Where he saith, that, in the sixth of the Acts, was not done by any express commandment of Christ, but upon the mutiny of the Greeks against the Hebrews: as it is to be granted, that it was an occasion why the people did present, so, that was no cause of their free consent, is manifest by the other places, where that is maintained without any particular cause, Acts 1. and Cap. 14. If Acts 6. speak of Deacons only, yet Acts 1. Acts 14. speak of Apostles and Elders and their election by the consent of the people. And if the people's consent is not to be shut out in the Deacons, which less importeth their liberty and salvation, much less are they to be debarred in their Pastors and Elders, upon whom, as Peter saith, the flock dependeth. Where he saith the 
1. Peter. 9  people chose without the Apostles, it is showed already, how his own words check him, and the truth is plainly to be seen in the Text, that neither the people without the Apostles directing them, nor the Apostles without the people consenting unto them, made that Election. As for shutting out of the Bishops and Church-governors it is marvel why he should fear it, unless jealousy which is fearful where no fear is, hath blinded his eyes. That of the Apostles doing without any express word from Christ's commandment, is answered before in that alleged concerning the Saboth Cap. 1. and is further manifest by the example of the Apostle Paul, who being not with the other Apostles, yet followed that rule, Acts 14. That he saith, there is no certain form of their Election: he is refuted by his own words following, where he showeth out of the Text, their election to have been of this sort, that upon the instruction of the Apostles the people in presenting them, necessarily therewithal gave their consent, as the Apostles did in accepting them to their ordination. As for agreement of all Churches in all circumstances of this point, he hath his answer before, but that he willeth to be showed what is ordinary, and what is extraordinary. His answer is, that the Apostles instructed the people, and they consented, which is ordinary, as appeareth in that it is kept in all Elections of the Church, Acts 1. Acts 14. and 2. Cor. 9 19 but that which was extraordinary, was the presentation of the people, the special cause whereof himself hath declared out of the text. In the rest, it is strange, that he requireth reconciliation where there is no repugnance, but all the places join hand in hand together. For the first in the election of the Apostle, it lay in the liberty of the church, only to choose some. For the Lot being the voice of God, was to assign which of them should be the Apostle: and this circumstance maketh strongly for the truth which is maintained. For, if where God is to strike the principal stroke, yet the people's consent is to be taken as far as may be; how much more is the authority of the whole Church to be sought for, where the Election is only to be done by men as the Apostle speaketh Galat. 1. The objection of the manner of the election, Acts 6. is answered before. As for the number of 7. who is so simple, as not to know that the number is to be varied, according to the spread and greatness of the Churches where they are: and the multitude of causes & affairs to be dealt withal? As for no imposition of hands in the first and 14. of the Acts, it is too simple and scarce tolerable in a catechist, seeing such things are to be gathered out of other places: otherwise one may think there were no prayers in the celebrating of the Communion, Acts 20. because there is no mention of it in that place which yet were very absurd, considering that the order which S. Luke described in the Church at Jerusalem, proveth that 
Acts. 2. 42.  they continued in breaking of bread and prayer. And if such silly objections need to be answered, as enforcing divers forms of elections, than also we may prove diversities of Communions, some of the cup and bread together, some of the cup alone, some of bread alone, by Act. 2. Act. 20. 1. Cor. 12. Where he saith Titus only is willed to appoint priests, belike the Jesuits translation was before him, when he translated Presbyterous; Priests and that so dazzled his eyes, that he could not consider the words following, that he should do as he had set him an order, which was not to do it without the consent of the church, except Paul would lift up Titus above himself & Barnabas, who chose Elders by voices. And if the answerer had been 
Acts. 15.  ignorant of the use of the scripture, which oftentimes giveth the action to the principal director, which yet belongeth to many more, as Paul in one place saith, Tim. received grace by the laying on of his hands: 2. Tim. 6. (which in 1. Tim. 4. he declareth to have been done by the laying on of the hands of the Eldership) yet his skill in Logic should have showed him the deceit of this Sophism. Titus appointed Elders, therefore he appointed them without the consent of the people. Of this kind are all the reasons following: As: all reformed Churches jump not in all circumstances, therefore they shut out the consent of the people. In other Churches the Elders of every congregation have the chief direction in the electione yet not without the consent of the people, therefore it is fitly according, to their example ordered, that the Church should once for all, give up their interest into one man's hands, for the continual election of many Churches. The sentence of Master Beza doth very fitly require an upright conscience, to set down what is expedient, according to the circumstance of time and place. Which if it had been found in him at this time, and in this matter, he would not have shut his eyes, against the manifest light of words going before, which declare manifestly that it is a perpetual and unchangeable point in Churchelections, which neither Church nor magistrate may alter, that they be made with the consent of the people. His words in that place are these: Then therefore, not in Churches builded up, must all things be committed unto the suffrages of the multitude, neither yet are the Pastors to be chosen without the consent of the whole Church: But all things are so to be moderated of the Elders and Christian Magistrates, that neither they bring in tyranny into the Church, (which surely should be done, if they should call any unto public function of their own will, neglecting the consent of the multitude, neither that the popular state of the Church degenerate into popular rule. Neither are these words of Beza, only sufficient to show his corruption, but the title of the chap. where he taketh this objection, doth minister sufficient answer, seeing it declareth that Beza in all that place, speaketh not of the consent of the people, which he made perpetual in the chap. before, but of the manner how he gave their voices, which is but a circumstance. And thus much both generally and particularly, for the unfolding of his unfit and slender allegations. Now followeth a confirmatition of the truth itself, which is. It is substantial & unchangeable in churchelections, that they be made by the body of every Church, the Elders directing the people, and themselves to give their free consent. The reasons of which assertion are these. First, what soever are the ways of the Apostles in ordinary church-government that is thus to be followed, that which they did ordinarily & unchangeably, is ordinarily & unchangeably to be done, that which they did upon circumstances, when those circumstances fall out, as appeareth by these places 1. cor. 4. 17. Which shall put you in remembrance of my ways in Christ, as I teach every where in every Church. And 1. Cor. 11. 2. I praise you brethren, that you remember me in all things, & hold fast the ordinances as I delivered them unto you. And Phi. 4. 9 Which you have learned & received, & heard & seen in me, those things do, & the God of peace be with you. 2. Tim. 3. 10. But thou hast step by step attained unto (or fully known) my doctrine, & course, purpose, faith, long-suffering, love, patience, etc. Tit. 1. 5. Appoint Elders as I have set thee an order. 1. Tim. 3. 17. These things have I written, that thou mayst know how to behave thyself in the house of God. Now that these were the unch hangeable ways of the Apostles in elections, is clear by the examples which have been touched before. For in the 1. of the Acts, the Apostles by Peter directing the action, & in the sixth by him or some other (for they could not all direct & speak at once) what soever were the variable circumstances, they kept this inviolable, that they people would give their consent in the election: And in the 14, chap. such circumstances ceasing, they observed this thing inviolable Katapolin, Church by Church. Secondly, If it were not enough for a temporary charge to have praise in the Gospel thorough all the Churches,: but as the Apostle saith, such a one was also chosen by the consent of the Churches, to be a fellow with himself, in carrying the liberality of the Churches: then much less can it be enough in a perpetual charge of such weight unto the Church, to depend upon the judgement of one or many without the consent of the Church: but the first is true. 2. cor. 8. 19 therefore the second. Thirdly, if in every matter of great weight and importance, belonging to the whole body of the Church, whether severally in one particular congregation, or jointly in many, the consent of the people by the whole course of Church-government, in the observation of the Apostles was required, than the same is to be kept in this action, which concerneth the particular Church and common assembly as much as any other. Now that the people's consent was so required, is evident by this induction following. So Peter yieldeth an account to them of the circumcision, of his going into the Gentiles, and satisfieth them before the Church. Acts. 11. 2. 18. The Church sent forth Barnabas to Antiochia, ver. 22. The churches of Antiochia, Acts 15. sent Paul and Barnabas to Jerusalem, about the controversy of Circumcision. And when they came to Jerusalem, they were received by the Church, and of the Apostles and Elders vers. 4. And after the Apostles and Elders had come together to look to that matter, and had discussed the same: than it seemed good to the Apostles and Elders, with the whole Church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antiochia with Paul and Barnabas: then they wright the decree unto the churches after this manner: The Apostles, Elders and the brethren. So in excommunication their consent is required 1. Cor 5. 4. 7. 12. So in absolution, the Church doth forgive the offence & ratify their love towards him who hath offended, 2. Cor. 2. 7. 8. So in calling upon the Minister to execute his charge, the Apostle would not himself, but willeth the Churrh to say to Archippus: Take heed to thy ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, that thou fulfil it. Colos. 4. 17. Lastly, seeing in the judgement of all interpreters, according to the truth, the Apostle reckoning up three manner of callings: the first of man, that is, man's ordinance: the second by man, that is, from God's ordinance by the means of the Church: the third by Jesus Christ that is immediate without the means of the Church, doth thereby signify that the two latter only belong unto churchelections, because that in the Church none must take any honour but he which is called 
Heb. 4.  as was Aaron: it followeth necessarily, that their sole-election which by their own confession is the ordinance of man, to be unlawful; and that which is by the consent of the people, according to the Apostles observation (as they themselves cannot deny) to be the only ordinary full way of calling allowed of God. This point also hath such manifest witness of antiquity, as before all equal Judges, the cause must pass on our side, For Counsels these two following shall witness, not only themselves, but by their mouths the Decrees and censures of the Church from time to time. 2. Tom, council. can. 8. The council of Paris. Let none be ordained against the will of the citizens: but to whom the election of the people, and of the clerk with most full consent, have required. And before they say of this, it is their decree, that according to the Canons of the decrees it be observed. Orleans. Canon. 10. 11. Let it not be lawful to get any Bishopric by rewards, or by other procurement: but by the will of the King, according to the election of the Clergy, and of the people. And after: besides this according as the old Canons have decreed, no Bishop may be given unto the people against their will. Ignatius ad Philadelp. It is meet that you as those which be the Church of God, should choose by voices your Bishops. 
Chierot●nesai.  And the Greek scholiast on the 14. of the Acts saith, it is to be noted, that the Disciples with fasting and prayers, did make election by voices. Cyprian, having laboured to prove that the Church ought not to communicate with their Ministers which had sacrificed to Idols, because they had power to choose new, saith: God commandeth the Priest to be set before the whole Synagogue, that is, doth ordain and show that briestly ordinations ought not to be made, but with 
Mathetai. Plebe.  the conscience of the people assisting, that the people being present, either the crimes of the evil should be detected, or the good should be published, and that should be a just and lawful ordination, which hath been examined by the suffrage and judgement of all men, which afterward according to divine institutions, is observed in the Acts of the Apostles, 
Magisteria.  etc. Epist. Lib. 1. Cap. 4. So Gregor. Naz. in apologet. Chrisost. lib, 3. Sacerd. So much for election, the church offices follow.   

That every Minister, of divine service in the public Congregation, aught to be apt to preach.  
COncerning this point, the words of the aunswerer are these. page. 2. And as it seemeth such as Paul propoundeth to every Minister, as a perfect idea which is requisite in him: which is, that he be able to teach sound doctrine, to comfort, to correct, to instruct, to convince any error. And page. 3. For the issue ought to have been to this effect, whether it be simply unlawful, that one should be admitted to minister the Sacraments, which is not sufficiently enabled Orthotomein, that is, to divide the word of God aright, and is also 
Rom. 15. 4. 1. Tim. 3. 16. 1. Tim. 3. 26. Tit. 1. 9  Didacticos Kai elegticos, able to teach the truth and convince errors, and to correct sin, & to instruct to virtue and good life, and to comfort the weak, or else, whether it be expedient that all the parishes in England, either not able to sustain such a learned Minister, or for the scarcity of such so well qualified, not able to procure one, should be destitute of public prayer, and administration of Sacraments, till such a Preacher be procured unto them or no? And the like page 14. where a little before he hath these words. If he reply that the Bishop should not then have made him Minister, I rejoin, that peradventure he was none of his making: it may be also, that he was fit for the cure he was appointed unto, though not so fit for some other populous Congregation, or troublesome people: Lastly, that if none should be assumed to the ministry, but with those especial indowmentes, surely all the learned of all professions in England, if they were in the ministry, would scarce be able thus to supply one tenth part of the parishes. Item page 25. Neither are such of them though they be no Preachers, to be accounted dumb and silent, who in their Churches do exhort, dehort, rebuke, comfort, and also in some degree instruct their parishioners, as their ability serveth, & occasion is offered. Which I know they may as profitably do, as some, who of as mean gyfes but of more audacity than they, dare take upon them to expound & divide the Scripture by preaching upon some text, unto which they in their whole discourse do come just as near as jarman's lips, are said to come together. Page 34. Further, if they have ordained some of mean ability, it hath been in respect of their slender portions of living, allotted out in most places for the finding of Ministers, which places otherwise should be destitute wholly, whereby the people would be in short time become as heathen & paynim, or be as savage as the wild Irish, to the great danger of their souls, and hazard of this state. Again page 45. But he is angry also with their bare reading and very peremptorily assureth us that they shall never be instruments of the holy Ghost, to work faith in the hearers, but he limiteth it with this word ordinarily, which he seeketh to establish by that of Saint Paul: And how shall they hear without a Preacher. Truly as it must needs be confessed, that the plain resolution and unfolding of the word in Scripture called Orthotomia, the right cutting thereof, and the graving of the due and fit allotment in season, which is performed by discreet and pithy preaching, is an ordinary and the most excellent means to engender faith: So is it a great error in divinity, to think that God never blesseth the reading or the hearing of his word read, but extraordinarily: for then why is it commanded that the law of God 
Deut. 6.  should be rehearsed continually to our children, that we should talk of the commandments in our houses, etc. That we should meditate therein day and night, that all the day long our study should be in his law, & that we should search the scriptures. Also why was Moses read in the Synagogues every Sabbath day, and they of Thessalonica commended for their reading of Scripture, & conferring it with that they heard? shall we say that so many thousands, as in late time of persecution were converted from idolatry, by reading of Scriptures and divine treatises, obtained not faith by ordinary means? or that without especial miracle, and by extraordinary working, none are saved in this Church of England, where the Minister is no public Preacher? and is not the declaring and publishing the word in the Mother tongue, wherein (as Augustine sayeth) in those things that are plainly set down, is sufficient for faith and conversation, a kind of declaration and preaching the Lords will unto us. Page 70. Neither in vain is preaching spoken off at the first ordering, both to put them in mind what ought to be their principal endeavour, and to give us to know, that mere layemen be not enabled to this office, so is it not convenient, that a licence to preach be given to any, but to such as being in some function Ecclesiastical, have addicted themselves to serve the Church according to their abilities in all their functions incident to that calling. And page 63. and the 4. injunction addeth hereunto. That if he be lisenced hereunto, he shall preach in his own person, at the least every quarter of a year one Sermon, for the which end, the Ordinaries in most places do require of such as be not fit to be licenced to preach, that they procure such duty to be done by an other which is able to perform the same, etc. Where he asketh whether the meaning of the Parliament were to have the Bishop's judge the reading of Homilies to be preaching: it may be said that reading of Homilies, in a strict signification can not be accounted preaching, yet they serve to edifying, and are a kind of publishing the Lords will, even as well as a Sermon being penned, is, and uttered forth to the people. Page 121. Truly, I wish unfeignedly, that the gifts of God's spirit were doubled and redoubled upon all that function: yea, that all the lords people could prophesy. Yet can I not without intolerable unthankfulness to God, & great touch of her majesties gracious care, for the instructing of her people, so debase all Ministers abilities which be no Preachers, as to say, they know not either for what they ought to pray, or that the word of God is the only food to the soul of man: Or shall we say that none knoweth any thing, nor is able to catechise, or to exhort & dehort in any reasonable measure, but he that is a Preacher publicly licenced, seeing it is notorious, that even in the reformed 
Art. 8. des ma●iages en ta discipline du France.  churches of France, according to which our men, that have their heads so full of Church-plots, would seem to have squired out all their frame; there be certain Congregations tolerated, where they have no public sermons, but prayers and certain exhortations. It hath been the hope of all the godly minded, that after the clear light had shined so gloriously, both by zealous preaching and learned writings of many worthy men, to the manifest discovery of the unlawfulness of an unpreaching Ministry: so that not only most of sound religion, but also even the very impugners of this, have after a sort been driven to an open confession of the same: that no man endued with any true care of religion, or minding to defend a cause worthy of any account, would once have adventured, either colourably or plainly, directly or indirely, with protestation or without to defend, or any way uphold such a base ministry. But seeing it is the righteous judgement of God upon all our unrigteousnesse, but especially upon their sin, who have admitted, tolerated, and defended such unsavoury salt, that instead of putting them to their right use, which 
Math. 5.  our saviour saith, is to be cast on the dunghill, and to be trodden under the feet of men, they do not only not remove the stinking snuff out of the candlestick, to place the bright-shining candle in their room: but also having cast down a third part of the stars from Heaven unto the earth, do still by public writing, underprop such crazed and rotten pillars: It shall be expedient before the particular examining of his several allegations, to let the world see, how that, while they are struggling with the light of their own conscience, the Lord (as the Apostle saith) hath made 
●. Tim. 3. 8. 9  their madness manifest to all men. For when as they should have been moved with the pitiful bowels of our Saviour 
Math. 9  Christ, who had compassion on the people (though they came to his preaching and had their doctors and teachers of the Law, such as they were in every Town and Uilladge) as sheep scattered without a shepherd: they have made themselves a laughing stock unto the profane, but a pity and heart-bleeding to the godly, by their ridiculous answers, open shiftings, contradictions, assertions and by such positions as come nearer to the profane spirit of the Jesuits, then to the holy Doctrine of any old or new writer, of whom this question hath been handled. For how unsavoury is it: For, to decline the sharp stroke of God's word, he is feign to turn the rule of the Apost. 1. Tim. 3. Which by Counsels and Fathers, is made an ordinary rule for the examination of those which stand to be admitted into the ministry, into a Platonical Idea, which should never be found in any: And to shift of the plain form of their ordination wherein they are willed to receive authority to preach the word, he saith, that It is not in vain, but to instruct us (forsooth) that mere laymen, are not inhabled to this office, as though there were no book to learn that lesson, unless the Bishop taught it by giving authority to ignorant men to open their mouths in preachiuge: which after, by a strait charge he is feign to sow up. And lastly, (to leave out other which the wise reader may easily see) going about to prove reading to be a kind of preaching, he is driven to demand, whether declaring of the word in the mother tongue, be not a kind of declaration. etc. Secondly, what open shifts are these, to cover the shame of them who ordained ignorant Ministers? he is compelled to ask, What if he made him not? or that the Parish were little or poor, When in his own conscience he dareth not deny, and all the world knoweth, such are daily made, and as though fewness or poverty deserved a blind guide, that they might both fall into the ditch. Again, how simple and naked was that, where to excuse the cold exhortatious of the ignorant Ministers, he is forced to say, that they are as profitable, as they who through more audacity take upon than to preach, & come just as near the text as jarman's lips are said to come together; as if one to show the goodness of the pestilent fever should allege the commodities of the plague. Also how is this whole discourse at war with itself? for to defend unpreaching Ministers, he challengeth men to prove it simply unlawful, to ordain men ministers of the word and Sacraments, which cannot preach, when in another place, he is driven to confess, that they receive authority to preach, to teach them that they are addicted to the same, as a thing incident to their office. Which is as much to say; All ministers must receive authority to preach, as a thing incident to their calling, & yet some ministers may be ordained to the ministry of the Word & Sacraments only, that is, must receive no authority to preach. Now, what concord there is between him & the Jesuits, let this comparison following declare. They say upon 17. vers. of 1. Tim. cap. 5. We may note that all good Bishops and Priests of those days, were not so well able to teach as some others, and yet for the ministry of Sacraments, and for Wisdom and Government, were not unmeet to be Bishops and Pastors. He saith that they may be Ministers of the Word & Sacraments, though they cannot preach. They say: Although it be due high commendation in a prelate to be able to teach, as the Apostle before noteth, yet all can not have the like grace therein, & it is often recompensed by other singular gifts no less necessary. He saith, that the aptness to teach, is an high & eminent Idea of the Apostle, rather declaring what is requisite in a Minister, than what is necessarily required. They say, some times and countries, require more preaching than others. He saith, unpreaching Ministers are fit for small Congregations, though not for populous and troublesome people. In all which, let the reader mark whether the Jesuits be not one step nearer the truth than he. Now, although this be be sufficient to bewray the answerers halting: yet because a great muster of faint Soldiers is thought to be a mighty army, till being encountered withal, they be severally scattered and put to flight: it is necessary to meet every one of this valiant host, hand to hand. And first, we overthrow his Idea, which serveth for nothing else, but to set out the holy Cannons of the Apostle to the laughter of all profane men, by these reasons following.  
1 Whatsoever the Apostle inferreth upon the worthy work of a Bishop or Minister's office, as that which must be in him for the necessity of that work, or for the necessary adorning of it, the same cannot be such an Idea:  
2 But the Apostle having said, that he that desireth a bishops charge, desireth a worthy work; thereon concludeth:  
3 Therefore, he must be apt to teach. Wherefore seeing he saith, Dei einai didacticon, that is, he must be apt to teach, how dare he say it is only good and requisite, or an Idea, which a Minister cannot attain unto? for if he can not be so apt to teach, as is there required; then it followeth, he must not be apt to teach, seeing in the government of the Church, a man must not be that he cannot be, although in the perfection of God his Law, which was given to show man his sin, and that man could fulfil the same, yet in the rules of the church-goverment, it is far otherwise, which are set down for a direction to the Church in their trial, who are fit to such or such offices. Secondly, if that property of being apt to teach, be an Idea, (that is an imagination which cannot be reached unto) then to be sober, to be Cosmios, that is, comely in attire, to be no fighter, are so likewise, seeing that is not only bound up by the Apostle by the same bond of necessity, but also is the only quality which the Apostle requireth: wherein a man fit for the ministry differeth from any other good & sound Christian, or from those which are to be chosen Deacons. Further, seeing the Apostle requireth, that he must hold fast the faithful word, which is according to 
Tit. 1. 7. 9  doctrine, that he may be able to exhort with sound doctrine & convince the gainsayers, And therein plainly delivereth, not only wherein they may, but wherein they must be able to do these things, he directly overthroweth this man's building in the air which he thinketh no man can reach unto. Lastly,  
1 That which holdeth proportion with the proper actions of divers members of a natural body, that cannot be accounted an Idea, seeing nature doth not only tend, but attaineth unto that:  
2 But that proper teaching which is the peculiar work of the teacher, and that proper exhorting which is the peculiar work of a Pastor, do hold that proportion as is manifestly set down by the Apostle. Rom. 12. 4. 7. 8.  
3 Therefore much less can this aptness to teach which is common to them both, be reckoned for an Idea.  
Now this thus necessarily concluded being granted, notwithstanding it would follow thereupon, that the issue which he tendereth, is also therewithal established: namely, that it is simply unlawful to admit them to be ministers of the Sacraments which cannot teach: yet to show the riches of the truth, it shall be further confirmed by these reasons following.  
1 That which is contrary to the whole course of the scripture, both of the old and new Testament, is simply unlawful.  
2 But to admit the administration of signs to such as are unfit to administer the doctrine by preaching, is contrary to the whole course of the Scripture.  
3 Therefore it is simply unlawful.  
The 2. part of which reason, is manifest by this induction. No the preacher of righteousness had the building of the Ark, to 
Genes. 6.  which our baptism answereth. So Abra ham was the minister of Circumcision, being 
1. Peter 3 ●●  also a prophet of God. So the Jew's were baptised unto Moses, who preached the law. 
1. Cor. 10. 1.  So the Priests offered Sacrifices, who were commanded not to drink strong drink, That they might teach the children 
levit. 10. 11.  of Israel all the statutes, which the Lord had commanded them by the hand of Moses. So all they which were Ministers of prophetical signs, were also Prophets. So in the Gospel, the baptism of John, implied the ministery of his doctrine. For the text saith: Those 
Acts. 19 5.  which heard him were baptised. So the general commission of the Apostles is, 
Math. 28. Mark. 6. 12. john. 4. 2. 38  to preach and Baptize. And when they were sent to baptise in Judea, they were also sent to preach. So in the ordinary ministry, whatsoever Elders went further than ruling only, were occupied in the Word and doctrine: divers from which 
1. Tim 5. 17,  seeing he can show no worthy example out of the Scripture, the former induction is full. Secondly,  
1 It is simply unlawful, to admit such to be Ministers of the Sacraments, which the Lord rejecteth from being Ministers of the Sacrifices:  
2 But such as are so unapt to preach, as by that means the people lack knowledge, the Lord rejecteth from the ministry of the sacrifices. Ose. 4. 6.  
3 Therefore we ought much more to reject them from the ministry of the Sacraments; because the ebb of knowledge under the law, aught to be full Sea under the gospel. Thirdly,  
1 If the Lord in the scriptures of the new Testament, hath given no commandment to the ordinary Ministers of the Word to administer the Sacraments, but under the commandment of preaching the word, then is it unlawful to admit a Minister not apt to teach:  
2 But he is not able to show any one place of a commandment of an ordinary ministry of the Sacraments, not comprehended under the commandment of the preaching Ministry:  
3 Therefore unless he would bring into God's harvest such an one as he hath not hired, it is simply unlawful to admit him to administer the Sacraments, which cannot preach.  
If he object these words of Christ, Do this: we answer, that it is not to be referred only to the delivery of bread, but to all the actions going afore of preaching, blessing, and breaking, etc., and therefore the Apostle saith, that when we administer the lords Supper, we preach Christ's death till he come. Lastly, 
1. Corin. 11.  seeing by Ephes. 4. verse. 11. all the ordinary offices which serve for the gathering together and the building of the Church, by the public ministry of divine service, is either the office of a Pastor or a Doctor: it followeth that none be admitted to administer the Sacraments which can not preach, because prophesying (that is preaching) is the work that is proper and common to them both. Rom. 12. 6. From whence also floweth their several duties of exhortation peculiar to the Pastor, and of an especial manner of teaching proper to the Doctor, Rom. 12. 6. 7. To his demand following, Whether so many Churches as cannot obtain learned Ministers, should be destitute of public Prayers and administration of Sacraments, And to that after, That so they would become in short time as heathen and paynim, or as savage as the wild Irish. And again, that the French Churches, Tolerate certain congregations, where they have no public sermons but prayers with certain exhortations. To these jointly we answer, the church can follow no better direction than the holy Apostles have delivered unto them in this behalf, who having by the preaching of the gospel gathered many churches, did not ordain insufficient ministers, because at the first they had not those which were sufficient, but leaving them partly to the ministry of others, where they might find it, & partly to the quickening of their faith, by their grave and sober meetings for prayer and mutual exhortation, they then returned and ordained them Elders church by church, when men were grown fit and meet for the same. Act. 14. 21. 22. 23. So in the old Testament, when for the sins of the people, the work of preaching was rare & precious; the prophets of God sent not forth reading & unlearned Levites, but rather gathered the people to them on the saboths & new-moons, to be instructed of them. 2. King. 4. 22. and in this sense and no other, is the constitution of the French Church to be taken, seeing they make no mention of the Sacraments, but of Prayer and Exhortations, which in another manner may be done with due caution of private persons in private assemblies. Which thing, if it were so carried of the Apostles in their times of persecution and troubles, how much more ought it to be among us in the time of peace: where beside the daily increase of preaching Ministers, if those already which we have, may be suffered freely to execute their office, matters may be so ordered (till through the blessing of God all Churches be replenished,) that no man need to go above five mile to hear a sermon: and for the administration of the Sacraments, the Church with the consent of the Godly Magistrates may take such order, (if it shall so please them) that every Parish may have the Sacraments ministered by a preaching Minister, and so they may be still edified in the holy faith, and not as he grossly and ungodly imagineth of the people of God, become more savage than paynim and wild Irish. The next is worthy of no other answer, then is already made. But where he saith, They are not to be counted dumb and silent, who in their Churches do exhort, dehort, comfort, and in some degree instruct their Parishioners. If he mean those duties as the Apostle understandeth them, to be peculiar to the man of God. 2. Tim. 3: we grant he saith true, for so they cannot be separated from the true resolving and opening of the Scriptures. But if he mean, as his words import by comparing with the rash dealing of such as take upon them to preach being not enabled thereunto, then must we needs say, that that voice which is loud enough in the house, even in the mouth of the Mistress of the family, who must Open her mouth with wisdom, and have the doctrine of grace in her lips, Is not loud enough for the Pastors of God's church, who must lift up their voice aloud to show Israel their sins, and God's people their transgressions: and that the riches of the word, with wisdom to admonish and exhort one another, 
Collos. 3. 16  which the Apostle maketh common to all grounded Christians, is not competent for the Scribe, who should 
Math. 13.  be prepared for the Kingdom of God, and bring out of his storehouse things both new and old, that he may be a Pastor 
jerem. 3.  according to God his heart to feed them with knowledge and understanding. Touching the want of living in some Parishes, for which cause (he saith) The bishops have ordered some of mean ability. If they observed the rule of the Apostle, that at this time Their abundance might supply others 
1 Cor. 8. 15.  lack, that also others abundance might be for their lack, that as it is written, he that gathered much hath nothing over, and he that gathered little had not the less: Then that objection need not be made. In his large discourse to salve the sore of the unpreaching ministry, wherein he laboureth to disprove the Abstractors assertion, who affirmeth that preaching of the Word is the ordinary means to work faith: he hath many words but no reason. For as one well beaten, leaveth him that mastereth him and turneth to some easier match, in steed of proving out of the Scriptures, that reading of the word is ordinarily so honoured, that it should be an ordinary instrument to work faith; he proveth by many places of Scripture a clean other thing: namely, that the reading of the word receiveth some other blessing then that which is extraordinary, which every one will grant him. For they are no small blessings, that by public reading & private exercise of the word, men are prepared & made fit for the public ministry: and afterwards are continually quickened in all Christian holiness, and confirmed in the public doctrine, which is all the sense of the places which he allegeth. And it is as if one should reason: Apollo watered the Corinth's, therefore Paul only did not plant them. Where he asketh 
Acts. 15.  why Moses is read every Sabbath in the Synagogues: we answer, to the former ends, and more fully with S. james, that every sabbath day he might be preached. Neither doth he in any sort satisfy that which is objected out of the Apostle, Rom. 10. seeing he speaketh of such Preachers as are publicly and solemnly sent. verse 15, which we hope he will not understand of bare reading, and of such as the Prophet isaiah, with admiration of the blessing of the Gospel crieth out: How beautiful are the feet of 
Esay. 52. 7.  those which preach peace, of those which preach good things. As for his objection, Of many thousands in the time of persecution by bare reading converted: and that we are not to say that the people where they have no preaching Minister, be saved by miracle: It is not worth an answer. For besides, that the blessing of God is extraordinary, by raising up the light of the Gospel in so palpable darkness, which had covered the whole earth: in stead of a thousand he can not show one, who by bare reading, without the preachings then used in secret, and the open publishing of the truth by the Martyrs at their death: or by ordinary preaching going afore, (as in the days of King Edward of blessed memory,) have been truly converted unto the Lord. In the other point he is forced to go against the wool. For whereas elsewhere, though to an ill end, namely, to dazzle the eyes of the people that they should not see the plague of an ill ministry, he doth worthily commend the running of the Gospel under her Majesties' happy government: yet here he is fain to as ill a purpose, far more unworthily to abase the same, as though preaching were so scant, (as the Lord knoweth it is very scant, and both Country and City do lament the rareness of it), as that men can not have faith but by reading only: which is far otherwise, seeing they ought to have at the least four sermons every year: & it is as if complaining of a great dearth, one should ask how they live that starve not? As good is his reason out of Angust. The scriptures contain all things necessary to salvation, therefore men may ordinarily have faith by bare and naked reading. As material is his demand following, whether the declaring and publishing of the word, be not a kind of declaration and preaching of the Lords will unto us. And that which he saith afterwards of Homilies, that although in a strict signification they be not preaching, yet in some sense, they are as well as a Sermon penned, is uttered forth to the people: for so it may be replied that 
Psal. 19  the insensible creatures preach and publish God his will, and that the sheepehardes 
Luk. 2.  preached, though not as he saith, in a strict signification. So women and Children may make a declaration of the will of God, and yet not apt to preach as the scripture requireth of every Minister. Further, if he had remembered that the Apostle maketh so great a difference between his own writing & preaching: as when he writeth to the Romans, he desireth earnestly to preach unto them also: he need not have marveled if good men make such separation between the reading of good writings of men, & the lively preaching of the holy word of God: especially considering he can not be ignorant, that the one proceedeth only from the common gifts of the knowledge to read, & of an audible voice, and the other from the especial gifts of interpretation, of doctrine, & exhortation, given by the holy ghost, as peculiarly for the Church-ministerye. Rom. 12. 1. Cor. 12. Ephes. 4. And if he had not forgotten the ancient question after the reading of Demostenes oration, O what if you had heard himself speak it, He would not have marveled that God hath attributed the first fruits, or rather first spring of our faith to the lively preaching of the word. James 1. which in that respect is compared to sowing. Mat. 13 to begetting. James 1. to grafting 1. Cor. 3. This truth, that all Ministers ought to be apt to teach, as it is most manifest and clear by the Scriptures, so it hath witness from the Church, even when it was fallen almost to decay, but specially whensoever any worthy service of God flourished, as may appear by their decrees, canons & sentences following, few only of many being sparingly taken for brevities sake. Concil. Carthag. 4. in the rules of examining a Bish. according to the 1. Tim. 3. amongst the other proprieties there mentioned, it is required to be sought, If he be learned, if he be instructed in the law of God: If he be Cautus sensibus scripturae, wary in the sense of the scriptures: si in dogmatibus exercitatus, it he be exercised in doctrines, opinions or sentences, meaning of all sorts, that he may be able to put difference. And in the Canons of Pope Celestine the 1. Can. reproving a superstition in Ministers, in squaring their outward attire to the phrase of certain places of Scripture, We have learned (saith he) that some Priests or Ministers of God, do serve or give themselves to a superstitious kind of service, rather than to the purity of the mind and faith, who being cloaked, having their loins girt, believe that they shall embrace the faith of holy Scripture, not by the spirit but by the letter. And having showed that we must not do the things, but that which is meant by such speeches: he saith further, We are to be discerned from the people or others by doctrine, not by garments. Now when they have no more soundness in faith and abilitiy to admonish, then is required in Christians: how are they discerned from the common people and others by doctrine? Concil. Toletan. 4. Ignorance the mother of all errors is especially to be avoided in Priests or Ministers, who have taken on them the duty of teaching among the people of God. For Paul doth command Priests or Ministers to read the Scriptures often, saying to Timothy attend to reading & exhortation: let Priests or Ministers therefore know the holy scriptures, and let them meditate the Canons: 
Polu sunteles.  let all their work consist in divine preaching and doctrine, and let them edify all as well with the knowledge of faith as with the discipline of works. And Chriso. 1. Tim 5. 17, For this is much for the edification of the Church, and very requisite that the Elders be apt to teach, for this cause with the rest, with this, that they should be given to hospitality, they should be moderate that they should be unblamable, he also numbereth this saying, he must be didacticos, apt to teach, for this he is said to be a Teacher. Which testimony, declareth evidently that aptness to teach is no more an Idea, than all the rest specified by the Apostle. So August. Homilia de pastor. Having proved at large all the duties of preaching to lie upon the Pastors of the Church, showeth how by the Apostle, they must not only preach, but be instant in it, saying. For here the Apostle sayeth, preach the word, be instant, in season and out of season. To whom in season? To whom out of season? In season to those who will, out of season, to those who will not. And thus much for an unpreaching ministery.   

Ministers fallen to idolatry from their ministery, ought not to be received to their ministery.  
HItherto hath been handled the 
1. Timot. 3.  principal cause of the Ministry, as it were the proper glory of the man of God, that he be apt to teach. Now it is meet in the next place, to maintain also that truth which the aunswerer impugneth, that Ministers fallen to idolatry, ought not to be admitted unto the ministery of the Gospel by any ordinary authority of the Church: that so the glory which God hath appointed unto the ministery might be maintained, both for sufficiency, and the authority which they should gain by being void of all suspicion of inconstancy in that religion which he should deliver, with much full persuasion of the truth to live and die in the same: and to be willing to deal their own lives 
1. Thes. 1. john. 10.  for their flock. For notwithstanding it must be true, that above all things the Godly Ministers are to take diligent heed, that they do not in confidence of their strength, or with a spice of freewill as Peter did, boldly promise such constancy: yea, when we are by Christ his voice admonished of our own frailty: yet in all humbleness, trembling, and fear, (resting upon God his promise to minister strength to the weak, and courage to the faint hearted) they ought as the chief captains 
Heb. 13.  of the lords army, and conductors of his host, not only be free from probable suspicion of such foul cowardliness, yea, of execrable high Treason; (seeing such do not only flee, before the enemies of God, but unto them, and that betray the strong tower of God his pure and holy service, into the hands of the devil his sworn enemy) but ought also to be examples & patterns of all readiness to suffer for the truth. His words for the impugning of this manifest truth are: The contrary of this Doctrine of his, may be proved by the example of Aaron, who was an Idolater or an abettor of idolatry in the golden Calf, and yet was not from his repentance put from his priesthood. Likewise by Peter, whose revolt and temporary Apostasy in denying his Master Christ was no less heinous, than the sin of our idolatrous priests, who for the most part sinned but of ignorance in that general blindness. Likewise Augustine, afterward a famous bishop, was by the space of many years, a detestable Manachy. And after he allegeth many testimonies of the Concil. Meldens, & the glow. out of the Nicen, and out of Leo. And Augustin, that Heretics as namely novatians and Donatistis, returning from their Heresies may be received. And out of Viret, that From Popery, men may be received to the Gospel. Peter Viret in dialog. la discipline eccles. des eglises reforms du royaulme de France. pag. 128. 129. Now all these allegations, although they carry some show to him who understandeth not the cause, yet to him that shall but once consider of the question, as it is before with out ambiguity set down, it is manifest that his allegations touch not the questions. For the examples of Aaron and Peter were without the compass of the ordinary power of the Church, who being immediately called of God, could not be demissed by the Church. For seeing no calling can be made void, but by the authority which made it, that which hath immediately proceeded from God, can not be repealed but by his voice. Now seeing the immediate voice of God and Christ, did not only not make void, but further establish the calling of Aaron and Peter: how could the Church meddle with that? Or how could the rule given to the Church, for to direct their mediate elections, rule the immediate calling of God? And if this be not plain enough to cause him to see the difference which is as great, as that which is between GOD and his Church, the voice of man, and the voice of GOD: Let him understand it by an other example of like reason. It hath been proved already, both by the Scriptures and Fathers, that none should be admitted to the Ministry by the Church, but such as were sufficiently qualified by ordinary means, or gifts given them already of God unto the same function. Now, if to defend the Bishops, in admitting Tailors, Shoemakers, 
For this, if need be, we can name the persons and prove it. Amos. 7. 14.  Weavers, Chandler's, Harpers, being also men furnished with no gifts: one should allege the calling of Amos, who by God was taken from the sheepfold, being neither a Prophet, nor son of a Prophet: would it not be a manifest dallying in the sight of God and man? But rather as the ordinary power of the Church can not herein imitate the lords prerogative, because they can not, as God with their calling power in gifts into the persons, whereby they should be enabled to their office: So they must not follow the prerogative of GOD in this, because they are rather to be gealouse and suspicious for the Church's sake (though otherwise they are bound to hope the best of a repentant Sinner) over him, least he should again betray the cause of GOD; which in God is far otherwise, who not only knoweth the hearts of men, but also what strength he will after give him: and if he let him fall, he knoweth how to turn it to the profit of his Church. Now, as these examples in this respect approach not unto the matter in debate. So the example of AUGUSTINE a Manachie or such like, because the question is not of such as were before their ministry such, or carried away with the common ignorance before they knew the truth: but of such as first seruiuge GOD in his appointed service, do not only leave the holy altar and fire, but renouncing that, betake themselves to a profane and idolatrous service and priesthood. Wherein he receiveth answer also unto his allegations of the fathers and counsels, which if they should speak of such as fell in capital points from the true service of God, of which, sometimes they were Ministers: they should then be directly contrary to the fathers and general counsels, which shall anon be brought as direct and manifest on our side. The like is to be answered unto Viret, and the example of the French Churches. Having thus answered his objections, the truth is confirmed sufficiently by the reasons following, out of the Scriptures and ancient witness from the counsels and Fathers.  
1 Whatsoever God hath commanded to be done in the law, to declare the honour he hath of his right service, & how he will have his Ministry beautified and fenced, against the cavils of all (which are perpetual equityes of such their prescription. 1. Tim. 3. 7) that is still and perpetually to bind the Church:  
2 But such is the order which now we speak of, as may appear by the 1. King. 23. 9 and by the 44. of Ezech. 13. 14. 15. etc.:  
3 Wherefore this order must be kept holy and undefiled.  
We know it will be objected, that these commandments be in the old Testament, not in the new: and that they are ceremonial. They who shall so object, must consider the old Testament is of equal authority with the new, and therefore seeing God hath once established this law for the Church-ministery, they must not repeal it but by the same authority, unless they will make with the Manichees, one just God for the law, and an other merciful for the Gospel: So that unless it may be showed, either that this law was only a shadow for a time to come, or was made for some cause peculiar for that time and those persons (which they can not do, because of the perpetual equityes before assigned): It followeth, that this must stand for an holy and enduring constitution of God. And in truth such answer undermineth at once, both the glory and perfection of God his holy Scriptures, not only in our judgement, but in the judgement of all writers, holy and profane, who have continually alleged the sentences, and commandments of the old Testament, even for the matters of the government of the Church. The Apostle proveth the mayntenaune of the Ministry for preaching of the Gospel, by the law made for the maintenance of the Priests, in the 1. Cor. 9 he proveth women ought not to exercise authority, by the places of Genesis. and in the first of Tim. 2. Cyprian, as all know that read him, proveth the election of the people by the place of Numbers; and that men are not to attempt further than their calling, by the places of Dathan, Abiram, Uzza in the carrying of the Ark, and such like. If this exception serve, how shall we any longer with the Fathers and Godly writers of our age, stop their mouths, for the proof of the Baptism of Children, with the reasons from Circumcision, drawn out of the law? Nay, that they may see they can not undermine the government of Christ with such answers, but they must also shake the brazen pillars of the Sacred authority of the Magistrate: Let them show with what Arguments they can stop the Mouths of papists in maintaining the Supreme authority of the Prince, and our most gracious Sovereign in Ecclesiastical causes, to reform religion, according to God's word: to plant Church-officers by the rules of the same, and according thereunto to depose abiathar, and set up Sadotk, to call synods Ecclesiastical when need is, or when the Church-governors neglect their duty, other then by the examples of Ezechias, Solomon Jehoshaphat, Josias, and by the pregnant reasons drawn from them. Wherefore let them leave these evasions and shifts unto popish divines, to whom they appertain. But lest they should think we have but one pillar to uphold this truth: and that only in the old Testament, let them answer the reasons following out of the new. If Paul did rightly think It so unlawful to take Mark 
Exiou.  such a one as went from them from Pamphilia, and accompanied them not unto the work, that he would rather be at sharp strife with Barnabas the son of consolation, and 
Acts. 15. 38  be separated from so worthy a companion in all his labours, then accept Mark: herein being justified above Barnabas by S. Luke, both in assigning of these just causes of S. Paul's refusal, and giving 
Vers. 38.  the Testimony of the Church to Paul, who commended him to the grace of 
Verse. 40.  God, of both which concerning Barnabas he keepeth silence: Then by how much 
Calvin on this place.  more right may and ought we to strive with such, as have not only left the work of the Lord, but have been anointed with the filthy grease of the unclean priesthood, and have received the bald mark of the beast, and have in continual ministry blasphemed the most holy, that they should not be taken again into the fellowship of this work and service of the Gospel. Lastly, when as the Apostle requireth that all Ministers must have a good Testimony of those who are without, lest he fall into the reproach and 
Diabolou, so taken verse, 11.  snare of the caveller. 1 Tim. 3. 7. how can they avoid this reproach, who are to be taunted with their backsliding, with the turning of their coats, and with high treasons against their GOD? how are not they in danger of the snare, who have opened a way unto Satan and the world, how they may deal with them already? Now unto this divine voice of the Prophets, we add the reverend, (though human) testimony of ancient time. Wherein the sentence of the general Council of Carthage, alleged before us by Cyprian, is of most reverend account. Cyprian, lib. 1. epist. 4. And there be other both many and grievous faults, wherewith Basilides and Martial are enwrapped: such do in vain go about to occupy the place of a Bishop, seeing it is manifest that such men may not govern the Church of Christ, nor offer up Sacrifices unto God; Especially when of late both with us, and with all the bishops in the world, even Cornelius also our fellow in ministry peaceable and just, and whom the Lord vouchsafed the honour of a Martyr, decreed that such men might be admitted to repentance, but should notwithstanding be kept from the clergy or ministry. By which also it is manifest, that this Counsel was not that provincial which concluded rebaptisation, whereunto Cornelius never consented. And how Cyprian himself maintaineth our reasons, may appear by his discourse in the 7. Epist. lib. 1. and his words following. How dare he challenge unto him the ministry which he hath betrayed: as though it were lawful after having been at the Altar of the devil, to come unto the Altar of God. And again: Seeing therefore the Lord threateneth such torments and punishments in the day of his wrath, to such as obey the Devil, and sacrifice to Idols: how can he think, that he may do the office of the minister of God, which hath obeyed, and served the priests of the devils? or how doth he think that his hand can be translated to the sacrifice & prayer of the Lord, which was captive to sacrilege & such a crime. These may suffice for this point: that after we have maintained the due honour of God his Ambassadors, we should also maintain the just, lawful and holy authority committed unto them of God.   

Of the authority of Ministers of the word.  
COncerning the authority of Ministers, he speaketh thus. Page. 53. And hereupon I would be resolved by the Author or some other, whether he think this endowment of every Minister with the execution of all dicsipline, admitting but not granting it to be so by law, to be a convenient policy, for the unity & quiet of the Church? And whether he himself had not rather be under the form now in practise, in regard of his own contentment, then under the infinite dictatorship of his own minister? or else whether should appellations from the judgement of the minister in this respect be allowed of? and whether to the bishop or to whom? and whether the Bishop by this interpretation of law, shall not retain his authority of executing the Discipline of the Church upon every particular minister, and in every several parish as afore time, seeing the author saith, as well as the Bishop in his diocese? And if he shall, what if the Bishop upon good cause, and for abusing of the authority, shall suspend the Minister from his jurisdiction of executing Discipline, is he not at the same point he was before? what if the Bishop himself dwell in the parish, who shall then have the pre-eminence? and what if the ministers discretion serve him, upon some small or surmised cause to excommunicate some great pear or noble counsellor of his parish, whose indignation may turn the whole Church to great mischief? or to proceed against his Patron, who peradventure hath a bond of him to resign. And a little after. page. 54. The author seemeth to me to divide the discipline of the Church, which he would entitle every Minister unto, into admonition, denunciation, and excommunication. If by denunciation, he mean the publishing of Excommunication done by himself, then is it a part thereof. If (as I rather think) he mean the second degree of proceeding upon faults not public, specified in the 18. of S. Matthew, then is this common with the minister unto all other Christians, even as admonition is, being, the first degree: And where the minister is the party offended, and hath not prevailed, neither by his admonition in private, nor his denunciation before two or three, to whom shall he tell it in the third place, where he himself hath the authority to excommunicate? and a little after in this respect he calleth the Ministers private and inferior. And again, pag. 59 Yes truly, as was touched afore, they do and may execute the discipline of declaring by doctrine, according to the word of God, men's sins to be bound or loosed, and the censure of rebuking and proving openly, those that do freeze in the dregs of their sins, which are not the least parts of discipline: which is as much (as for avoiding intolerable inconveniences, which otherwise would ensue) as is expedient to be attributed to every one etc. A little after: And if no especial pre-eminence might be attributed in matter of execution of discipline to one minister above another: why is it said by S. Paul, excommunicating the incestuous Corinthian, Absens decrevi, being absent I decreed, seeing they had Ministers of their own, and willed the denunciation afterward to be done openly in the Church? And at the time of his absolution Paul being absent saith, to whom you forgive any thing I forgive also: likewise speaking of the Anathematisme of Hymenaeus and Alexander: I have given them up unto Satan, not naming their own Minister, or any signory. Again. fol. 61. But if he mean the discipline passively, I think he and his fellows have had some wrong at the chief prelate's hands a great while. If actively, that every minister without check might have the execution of all discipline in his own Parish, I do verily believe that this man, and others, who so earnestly call for they know not what, If they might not be themselves also Elders, ancients, or what you will saving Priests of the signory, would be the the first weary of it; For if I know their disposition, they are as unpatient as any men, to be at controlment, and most of all by a poor Minister.  
It hath always been the practice of the subtle Serpent, who, that he might undermine the authorye of God's Ambassadors, and bring the Messengers of the most highest unto disgrace, to lift up some, who neglecting the most essential duties of a pastor and Elder, in feeding the flocks; and being a Pattern in their whole life and example unto them, are wont to climb into the ambitious throne of exercising a usurped ecclesiastical Dominion, and a Lordship over their fellow-ministers; that whilst by their place and pomp, they might amaze the people, as being men of great learning and wisdom, and might also by their authority make the poor Ministers as the aunswearer saith, Private Ministers, to speak when they will, write to what they list, and to be their Commissaries crier, that is, their man's man to promulgat his sentence of excommunication at his pleasure, he might also bring to pass that which the Prophet Jeremy complaineth of in both. The Prophet's prophesy for reward, 
Veha cohanim iirdu Gnal iedahem * or by their hands  and the priests exercise dominion * by their means: and my people love it so, and what will they do in the end? Which we see hath not only won much unto the cause of Satan in popery, but also it keepeth much power unto him amongst those, who do profess the Gospel: For by this means it cometh to pass, that they will go 5. mile to hear a Lord preach, when they will hardly come to Church to hear their own Pastor: By this means they become so irreverent, or rather saucy with their Pastor, that they care no more for his admonition and rebuke, then for the bleating of a sheep: by this means they may call him before a commissary, a layman (as he speaketh) they may fetch out Excommunications thick and threefold if he appear not, and so not only not have him not to exercise dominion over them which Peter forbiddeth, but also 
1. Peter. 5.  be Lords over their Pastor being but private persons, which the law of reason disalloweth. Which policy of Satan, although it become odious in the sight almost of all men, but especially of true and loving subjects, who are grieved that some not only exercise Lordship over their fellow-ministers, but also perch so high, as they pray upon the right of princes, whilst they (forsooth) may not eat flesh in Lent, or on a Friday, but by a Byshoypes license: yet this man who hath given his tongue leave to revile the Ministers with divers slanders & reproaches, cannot content himself with that, but must open his mouth against the due authority of the Ministers of Jesus Christ. In which respect we account ourselves bound by the Canonical obedience, which we own unto the Archbishop of our souls Jesus Christ, according to the Canons 
1. Peter. 5.  which he hath made in his word: first to show how this man disordereth the question according to his manner, voweth consent (as it seemeth) with the Jesuits in these his assertions & proofs, and then having discussed his allegations, to confirm the plain truth by holy authority of scripture, and worthy witness of ancient times. In the entrance therefore, the Answerer is not content only to fly from the issue, (whether according to the word of God, the minister should exercise the censures of the Church according to the word of God, which with us is executed by Commissaries, mere laymen,) unto another thing, namely, what inconveniences the excommunication committed to the pastor might bring, but also to set upon a matter never affirmed by us, that a minister should without the rest of the ecclesiastical senate perform this thing. His agreement with the Papists may appear manifestly by their Annotation, the 4. ver. of 5. cap. 1. Cor. Their words are these: Though he commanded the Act should be done in the face of the Church, as such sentences and censures be at this day executed also: yet the judgement and authority of giving sentence was in himself, and not in the whole multitude, as the Protestants and popular sects affirm. Wherefore seeing his cause is that, which is between the sworn enemies of GOD and his Church: we are not to fear, but the truth which hath prevailed so often against them, shall also carry the Garland from this new Wrestler. His first reasons are drawn from the inconveniences, which he thinketh will come unto the Church by this means, as requiring rather (like a Civilian not a divine) what is safe, than what is according to God his will: Amongst which, he demandeth whether the Author had not rather be under the form that now is, then under the infinite dictatorship of his own minister? which I answer by another Question: why should the ministers censures proceeding by the equal authority of an Eldership, upon causes determined by God his word in a small volume, be more infinite than the Commissaries, who cannot but proceed according to the infinite and contradictory Canons of their Law, who can excommunicate upon non appearance for a matter, of 12▪ penny. Is it liker that one Minister shall have many elders more tied to his will & pleasure, than one Commissary his own affections: Again, may not their appeal from one Eldership, to a Conference or assembly of many Ministers and Elderships, be as safe as from the Commissary to another Bishop? And if it were granted that the Bishop should have authority in every particular Church: yet with the Ministers consent (unless he will justle one law against another) why were it not more reasonable & safe, then as it is now in the bishop alone: Seeing then the Minister might have more particular knowledge of the causes in his Congregation then the Bishop, and yet if he were rash, the bishops wisdom might stay him. And if the bishop should suspend the Minister upon abuse of his authority, yet he were not at the same point he was before, because than they which did not abuse their authority, might exercise it still. And if the bishop dwell in the Parish and had pre-eminence, yet he should not draw the execution of Discipline to himself only, but to hold it in common with him. But what do I answering his cavelles agayuste the Law, seeing I doubt not but the Abstractor will soon answer his cavil in this behalf. For the fountains which are in his Book already, are not yet dammed up by the answerer: Wherefore, I pass to his inconvenience, which he fetcheth from the want of discretion in the Minister, which is; What if he upon want of discretion, do excommunicate some great peer of his Parish upon some surmised cause, whose indignation may turn the whole church to great mischief? To this I answer, that unless the bishops seat above a Pastors, be so sanctified (as Jerome saith) by human constitutions, as that it can always proceed with discretion and Wisdom, when the Pastor's seat sanctified with God, and ordained with so many precious promises, should be subject to more folly and headiness, than the chair of the bishop: this inconvenience is as likely to fall into the bishop as the Minister. Further, whether is more likely, that the Bishop having by reason of his countenance and Civil authority, both more heart-burning between the Noble Counsellors and himself, and being in less fear, as thinking himself better able to shoulder amongst them, would be more bold in his conceit, than a poor Minister (as he calleth him) who never would for fear, but upon most necessary and sufficient cause urged in conscience, adventure such thing? neither if he would, could many grave Elders, without whom he could do nothing, be drawn unto it, especially considering; that their fear would prevail, where great Conscience of their duty should not overcome it. And may not this man when his opinion as a Canker shall fret so far, turn all this against the every of public rebuking, aswell as against the ministers execution of discipline: for may he not also demand, whether the bishop shall retain his authority to preach in his Diocese? and if he be in that Parish, who shall have the pre-eminence? If he suspend the Minister from preaching: whether he be not at the same point he was before? And what if the Minister upon some discretion would rebuke openly some Peer of the Realm, upon bare conceit, or some surmise: shall then the duty of the Minister in Preaching for such unity of the Church cease and be counted inconvenient? If he say no, this is the commandment of GOD, and necessary for Christian institution: so we say, this is the commandment of JESUS CHRIST, and necessary for holy correction. In the next place he asketh to whom the Pastor shall tell it, when he doth admonish him himself▪ I answer for the Pastor, easily to the whole Eldership, as our saviour willeth. But this question in deed clean dasheth the sole authority of the Bishop out of countenance. For to whom shall he tell? not to the Congregation of Elders, as our Saviour commandeth but to the Church, which standeth of himself only as he desireth▪ not ascending by the stairs of Christ, from one to two, from two to many Godly 
Chrisost. in Math. 18.  Precedents, as Chrisostome speaketh, but by the stairs of Rome, to descend from two to one, and to take the matter wherein he is a party, into his own hands, and proceed in censure Ecclesiastical as liketh himself best? In the next, to blear men's eyes with all, he granteth they may rebuke in public doctrine, bind and lose by preaching, which is a great part of Discipline: as though any man were so blind, (as when the book maketh three parts of the Ministers Office ministering of doctrine, ministering of the Sacraments, and ministering of Discipline) as not to see what violence he doth; Nay, what folly he imputeth to the book, as though they should make three of two. For if Discipline be nothing but the open rebuking in preaching, and binding and losing by the same, that being a part of ministering the Doctrine by preaching, is manifestly contained under it: and so not only maketh one two, but carrieth one half from one end of the sentence to another, placing a third between, and for an umpire belike, least they should fall out, or else being joined orderly together, should to much annoy him. But his reasons, which the Jesuits have shaken against the truth before him, do follow. Unto which I answer, that it followeth not, that if the Apostle might by sole authority excommunicate, therefore the Bishop may: for an Apostle is of far greater authority than a Bishop is. Secondly, it is false that the Apostle did only command unto them to pronounce the sentence as the Bishop doth, the minister giving them no further authority. For although as an Apostle whose duty was to deliver ordiaunces, which the Churches were to observe and keep, he did justly decree as the voice of Christ, and so command them what they should do: yet he doth not excommunicate, or take it unto himself, but willeth that by the authority of Christ, they should cast out (not pronounce his sentence of ejection) they should Separate from 
1. Cor. 5. ver. 7. 12. 13.  amongst them such, that they Should judge those within that is under their authority, not that they should only pronounce his sentence of separation and judgement, which is also most manifest by his other allegation, out of the second to the Corinth's, where hesheweth that he alone 
2. Cor. 2. 10.  would not forgive, but whomsoever they forgave, he would forgive: he calleth it the rebuke or censure of many, not of 
Epi●imia. Charisasthai. Curosai.  himself; He showeth, now they ought freely to forgive, he did exhort them to ratify, and by authority confirm their love towards him. Let him therefore take this necessary collection clean against him, that if the Apostle would not, nor durst not take unto himself the sole authority of excommunication & absolution, but left it unto the church: How shall any one bishop presume to shut out the Ministers and elders, & carry it wholly unto himself? His next reason is of as great force. The Apostle saith he did deliver unto sathan, & mentioneth neither their Ministry nor signory, therefore he did alone. Upon which example I reason thus. Paul saith that Timothy received grace by the laying on of his hands, making no mention of the elders: therefore it is false that he saith in the 1. Tim. 4. that he received it by the laying on of the hands of the Eldership. James Act. 15. saith. I determine or judge Therefore it is false, which is after set 
Act. 15. 19 Crino. ctA 15. 22.  down, that this was the decree of the Apostles & Elders, with the consent of the Churches. But what need I stand to answer this argument, which was by a reverent servant of God, answered openly at Paul's cross, that although the action 
M. Doctor Day at Paul's cross. November. 17  be given to one who moderated, yet neither Peter nor James, nor any Apostle above Apostles, nor Bishop above Ministers had any authority over others, and that as the Senators were equal in authority, notwithstanding he moderated, so is it amongst the Apostles and Bishops. And thus much for his reasons. Ours follow, that it belongeth to the Pastor & the Eldership, to excommunicate by the consent of the people. If our Saviour Christ. Math. 18. when he saith tell the Church, mean not one Bishop, because one can not be a number, nor one alone a Church, and he goeth upward from one to 2. from two to more, not contrariwise, from two to one: neither can it be meant of many Churches, for than it must be all the whole Church (in the phrase of the scripture) and it were a confusion and unpossibility for many Churches, or the whole people to hear all such Ecclesiastical causes: but do mean upon these reasons a particular Congregation, than our assertion is most true and certain. The first we have proved, therefore the second is true.  
1 That which the Apostle maketh the judgement of a particular Congregation, that must needs appertain to the Pastor and the rest of the Elders, as the governors, and to the people as consenters:  
2 But this the Apostle plainly expresseth 1. Cor. 5. 12. Why judge you not those who are within? Separate him therefore from amongst you:  
3 Therefore it is true which we affirm.  
If it be the especial duty of the Pastor, by the authority of the Eldership, to deliver the holy Sacraments to the worthy, and detain them from the unworthy: Then unless he should be compelled to give them to the unworthy, and withhold them from the worthy, excommunication must belong to him with his fellow Elders. But the first is manifest by these Scriptures. levit. 10. 11. Zephan 3. 3. They have polluted 
Quodesh.  the holy things. And 1. Cor. 11. 26. 27. Wherefore our assertion is true. The consequent of the first part is manifest, because he must deliver them to all, not suspended and excommunicated, and to the rest he must not. The consent of the ancient times agree unto this. The counsel of Arles. 2. Can. 30. authoriseth the suspension which the Elders and clerk decree against the Bishop. And they do it by the authority of ancient decrees. Also, seeing the counsels conclude both generally that the Bishop shall not proceed in any cause of government Ecclesiastical without the Elders: and that they shall not ordain without them, and that they alone can not so much as give leave to any of the Clergy to go unto the Widows or Virgins, but with the consent of the Elders: it followeth much more, that they might not excommunicate without them. Now the first sort are directly proved by these Canons following. Concil. Carthag. 4. cap. 23. That the Bishops hear no cause, without the presence of his clerk, otherwise the sentence shall be void, unless it be confirmed by the presence of the clerk. And the 22. That the Bishop ordain not Clerks without the counsel of his clerks, so that he seek the assent and leave, or connivence & testimony of the citizens. Canon. 3. An Elder 
Conninentiam.  when he is ordained, the Bishop blessing him, holding his hand upon his head, let also all the Elders which are present, hold their hands by the hands of the Bishop. That the clerk or those who contain, come not to the Widows or Virgins, but by the commandment or permission of the Bishops and Elders. And Can. 32. That the Elder reconcile not the penitent, not having asked council of the Bishop. jerom. ad demetri. 1. Epist. The Elders in other censures of the Church, and the Church hath interest in excommunication. Cyprian. lib. 3. Epist. 19 Speaking of excommunication, of which until we shall have understanding, what he have done after, which thing when it regardeth the Counsel and sentence of us all, I dare not prejudicate the matter and draw it only to myself, And lib. 3. epist. 14. epist. 15. 
Traditione dominica.  epist. 16. and August. speaking of the elders saith, because all things in tradition of the Lord, are done by the holy Ghost, therefore when a rule and form of this Discipline is delivered unto them, it is said unto them, receive the holy ghost: & because it doth truly appertain to ecclesiastical right, whose sins you forgive. etc.   

Of the Doctor or teacher, that he is an ordinary and perpetual officer in the Church of Christ, distinct from the Pastor, by the word of God.  
COncerning which, the words of the answerer are these: And I hope that the author will not hereby gather, that by law now in force, a man is utterly & simply forbidden, to have an other preach in his cure, for then all our new doctors De rob curté, who iutrude themselves upon, must be feign to give over their cloaks, and put up their Pipes. fol. 41.  
If this had been directed against the particular persons of some, it had been beyond the rule of charity and modesty, though he should be a Doctor who spoke it, thus to slander any with intrusion, and having nothing to say to their doctrine and lives, to gibe at the apparel which they wear in journey, or otherwise upon occasion, being both sober and grave, yea when as commonly they use a gown with as much gravity, & less flaunting then the most of their Doctors consecrated according to the order of men, and not of God. But now, that it is brought to deface (as shall be proved) the ordinance of God, thus without all proof to flout and to taunt the officers of God, beseemeth neither the gravity of a Cambridge Doctor, nor the modesty of a Christian, nor the civility of an honest man. Their intrusion, forsooth, is this, that having first (according to the order of the Church of England) authority to preach, they come upon the earnest desire of the Congregation, with the consent of the Pastor (unless being no preacher and ignorant, for envy he can not bear him) to instruct the people with wholesome doctrine, out of the true interpretation of the Scriptures, their Pipes, which he saith profanely, they may put up, is the Utterance of knowledge, a gift of the holy Ghost, which 
1. Cor. 12.  is more sweet to GOD his Children, and acceptable to the Lord, than all the gilded Organs and Pipes in the Realm. For in the spiritual battle, their Sound is uncertain, when as these as the Silver trumpets of God's sauctuary 
1. Cor. 14.  give certain warning to the people to serve the Lord aright. Thus having in a word, with as much patience and modesty as the Lord would give me, touched not the Salt, but unsavoury brine of his flouts: having no reason of his to 
Colos. 4.  deal withal, I set down these following, first for proof out of that scripture, then for witness out of ancient writers.  
1 Whatsoever (the Apostle setting down the ordinary & perpetual members of Christ's body, in every particular Congregation) doth make an ordinary member in the same, distint●t in his proper works and action from all the rest, the same is a perpetual ordinary Church-officer:  
2 But he maketh the Doctor (in that reckoning) a distinct member, having a distinct action from all the rest, to wit, teaching distinguished there from exhortation, from governing, from distributing:  
3 Wherefore it is plain, that he is a Church-officer, ordinary and perpetual (for his gifts and use are ordinary and perpetual) and also distinguished from the Pastor.  
1 Whatsoever Christ hath given to his Church, with an ordinary and perpetual gift, for the perpetual work of the ministry, gathering and building up of the Church unto perfection, that is an ordinary Church-officer:  
2 But so he hath given Pastors and Doctors. Ephes. 4. 11.  
3 Therefore both are perpetual, and ordinary officers, and by consequent distinct.  
Unto this argument, they object, because the Apostle having said, some Apostles, some Prophets, some Evangelists, he saith in the last place, some Pastors and Teachers, which because they are coupled by and, they say they are one and not distinct. To which I answer, they may as well prove hope and charity to be one and not distinct, because the Apostle saith, these three remain, faith, hope, and charity, because he coupleth them with and. But if these men have not learned either that and, though sometimes it rather repeateth or interpreteth, then coupleth divers things: yet that most properly and commonly it doth not so, or that it is an elegancy with the Grecians in such long distributions, to join the two last members, especially if they be of greater kindred and familiarity than the rest, to join them with a copulative conjunction in the end: If, I say, they have not observed this in Homer and others, Let them learn it of Paul, Galath. 3. where being about to show, that in Christ there is no difference of the 
Verse. 28.  outward distinction of kinds in this life: he maketh a distinction, or numbering up of the divers sorts, and joineth the two last most like in nature and kindred, yet not one and the same together, saying: There is neither jew nor Grecian, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male and female. Having answered this objection, I proceed to other arguments.  
1 Whatsoever is set as Church-officer in the Church by God, with a distinct and proper ordinary gift, that is such as we have above described:  
2 But God hath set in the Church Doctors, and given them their peculiar work and gift, The word, or utterance of knowledge, distinguished from the Pastor's work and gift, the Word or utterance of Wisdom in exhortation:  
3 Wherefore the Doctor is such a one as we have described.  
The second part is manifest by these words. And these God hath set in his Church, first Apostles, secondly Prophets, thirdly teachers, after powers, then the gifts of 
1 Cor. 12. 28  healing, helpers, governors, sorts of tongs: are all Apostles? are all propehts? Are all teachers. And ver. 8. To this is given by the spirit, the word of wisdom, to an other the word of knowledge according to the same spirit. If they say, the word teacher, is here taken generally, not properly for the Doctor: besides the 8. verse, which doth manifestly refel them, these reasons confute them: First, because he distinguisheth them from apostles and Prophets, which in that general signification should comprehend them, and if it should comprehend any more than Doctors properly, yet it were no reason to shut out those who are so called. Lastly, seeing they can show no place where it is so taken, but always is general of all Ministers of the Word, as the Apostle calleth himself A teacher of the Gentiles. And Timothy is willed to teach, as also is every Bishop; or else it is proper for the peculiar Church-officer so called: it were against all rule of interpretation, to shut out the proper, which here agreeth with the circumstances of the text, & take a strange & unwonted signification, as to signify a Pastor by a Doctor. Our last reason is: Seeing the Prophet Esay, prophesying of the calling of the Gentiles by the ministery of the Apostles, doth also prophesy, that of these called to the faith, he would take of them to be Priests and Levites, meaning (according as the Prophets use to speak, by offices and holy things of the law, to note out such offices as had some similitude, & proportion with those under the Gospel) them to be Pastors, who in administering of the Sacraments, & slaying by exhortation the old man, & offering up the new man acceptable to God, hold proportion with the Priests: and to be levites, whose office concerning the substantial point of delivery of doctrine, is one & the same with theirs, that it must needs be, that according to the scriptures of the new Testament, this prophesy should be fulfilled in the office of Doctors as well as of Pastors. And this was that which the Fathers meant in their common 
Cyprian. lib 1. epist. 9 add furitanoes. Ambros. lib. 1. off. c. 50. Aug. quest ex utroq: test. mixed. q 101.  resembling of Pastors to Priests. Eusebius declareth this most plainly in setting down the duties of the Doctor to catechise them, & as a master his scholars by continual reading to them, or exercising to advance them in knowledge. For writing of the persecution of the church under Severus, & speaking of Origin, he saith: ●he exercise of teaching, or the school exercising, as some where even himself maketh relation in writing, & none served or was set to catechise at Alexandria, but all were driven 
Hist. lib. 5. cap. 3. Scholazon ti de tei diatribe. Toi Katechein anakeimenou. Toutes katecheseos proeste didaskaleiou.  away by the threatening of persecution: some of the Gentiles came unto him to hear the word of God. And a little after: Origin was then 18. year old, when he was over the school of catechising or instructing. And Nazianzen saith in Orat. Pros tous politevomenous. The servants must be subject to their masters, the wives to their husbands, the Church to the Lord, the Disciples to their Pastors and Teachers.   

Of the Elders and Eldership.  
Having ended the treatise of the Doctor his office; we are to proceed unto the Elders, and Eldership with whom he dealeth as profanely as with the others: his words are. fol. 43. But why are Presbyteri, such as expound in the Church, translated Elders? I trust he mindeth not hereby to shut out all laymen from the Eldership or signory which is dreamt of, lest peradventure he himself be Exclusissimus. And Pag. 57 And doth our Author think that this man here doth mean their lay Presbiteries, never heard nor read of from the beginning of the world, till within these forty years or little more, because he nameth them Ecclesiastical Magistrates. In which words of our author, we see his chiefest reason against the Ecclesiastical Presbytery is, that the Elders are lay, and the Presbyteries lay, and therefore there hath not been heard till within this forty year, of them in the world. To which we answer, if the Elders which join with the Pastor & Doctor were lay men, yet it followeth not, that the Eldership is lay. But can his degree of Doctor (if he be so much) give such credit unto his bare word, as though all the Christian Churches (which by the grace of God do exercise this discipline) should be believed to have a Presbytery of such as are not elected and ordained Ecclesiastically to their office? If I be not deceived herein his laws may teach him if he will not learn it out of the Scriptures, that whosoever is called with due examination and trial, with the consent of those to whom it appertaineth, and are with fasting and prayers, or prayers only and with imposition of hands separated or put a part to that office, that they are Ecclesiastical persons and not laymen (as he calleth them) otherwise, there is no rule in the Scripture to discern between men private, and between Church-officers. Now, if he consider either the order which we maintain out of the Scripture, or that which is practised in all reformed Churches, he shall find, that they 
Acts. 14. Acts. 6. 1. Tim. 4. 1. Tim. 5.  are duly examined by the Elders, elected of the whole Church, ordained of the Eldership, yea, he shall find this to be true of Deacons, much more of Elders. But if this exception were true, as it is most false, who can choose, but he must abhor the hypocrisy of these men, who can deface the ordinance of God, which they want, which they themselves have not. For their Commissaries and chancellors, who suspend, Excommunicate, and administer the discipline of our Church under the Bishops, what are they? who calleth them▪ the Bishop: who ordaineth them▪ or anointeth them▪ his Letters patents: By whose prayers do they look to obtain comfort in their calling? by the bishops blessings without prayer, without fasting. To what office are they put apart▪ to mingle heaven and earth together, matters of God and matters of men: to excommunicate, & take probates of testaments: to admonish ecclesiastically & commit penance: to be Lord over the ministers, themselves having taken no degrees. Thus though their calling be neither ecclesiastical, because they come to no church-election, nor have any such ordination: nor civil, because they be called by the bishop only as he is bishop, put a part neither to administer ecclesiastical things only, nor things civil only, but to both and to some which are neither; as to give men spiritually leave to marry, and eat flesh in Lente, as though they were made to go beyond all good estate of mankind, beyond the body, because they meddle with the soul, beyond the soul, because they meddle with that which pertaineth unto it: nay, sometimes which is hurtful. Wherefore, although this were sufficient to stop his profane mouth: yet that it may appear that the grey hairs of this order, are more ancient than the very hoary head of his chancellors and commissaries: I will prove it to be the ordinance of GOD out of the Scriptures, that there ought to be an Ecclesiastical Senate of Pastors, Doctors and Elders governing only, to have the administration of Church-matters, and that they ought to be administered Ecclesiastically.  
1 If the Apostles set down two sorts 
1. Reason.  of Elders which rule the Church well, and are worthy of double honour: the one sort of them only ruling, the other labouring also in the word and doctrine (which are as hath been proved before the Pastors and Doctors); than it is plain that these raising only must be added unto them:  
2 But the first is true by the express words of the Apostle. 1. Tim. 5. 17.  
3 Therefore the former assertion is certain.  
To this place some are wont to object that the first sort are such as are occupied in the Word and Sacraments, though they preach not. But this will not serve, both because we have proved that none are to be admitted to that, but they ought to preach, and also because those should yet be occupied in the word, and therefore comprehended under the latter sort. Now, when they perceive this will not serve (being men willing to learn of any) they have learned of the Jesuits to answer, That such 
Jesuits Testament Rheimes. 1. Tim. 5. 17.  Priests specially and Prelates, are worthy of double, that is more ample honour, that are able to teach and preach, and do take pains therein. And therefore they make, that all for their office, are worthy of double honour: but specially those which labour diligently and painfully in the word. 
D. Cop. ser. lat. in con.  But this shift is manifestly discovered by the text. First, because the Apostle should then have said thus: they which are occupied in Word and doctrine, are worthy of double honour, especially those which labour: but he doth not make the ministry of word and doctrine common to both, but the ministry of governing. secondly, the Apostle by these men's goodly device, should not proceed, but should go backward in his comparison: for he had then said more in the first part, when he said, They which do it well: or (as he might say) with worthiness of praise, which he that doth, must not only do it with labour, pains, & diligence, 
Calos.  but also with purity, wisdom, zeal, power, soundness, fitness, & many other things besides labour. So this sense clean overthroweth the Apostles increase by the word Especially. Thirdly, by this means the Apostle must make three sorts of Ministers of the word, such as are occupied in the Word, but not well, (belike their ignorant Ministers). First, they which should have some honour for their office sake, than some that do it well, but not with labour or diligence, which must have double honour though they labour not; & the last, which do it more than well, which must have more than double honour. If this be not to dally with the lords word, what is? Fourthly, If the difference were not in things wherein they are occupied, but in the labour above others, or the slothful labouring of others, this difference should be none at all, seeing the Apostle in other places giveth watchfulness, which is more than labour, for it is a 
Heb. 13. 17.  continuance of labour, with great regard, not only in preaching, but otherwise for their soul's health. Yea, he giveth this very word, Copiontes, which labour, to all that are over them in the Lord, and 
1. Thes. 5.  admonish them, which they must reverence and acknowledge. Lastly, their distinction and interpretation is clean destitute of conference of Scriptures, which are not wont to give double honour to any but to those which are painful, & which labour in their work: but ours have most manifest witness out of other places, as shall appear by the other reasons following.  
1 If the Apostle Rom. 12. setting 
2. Reason.  down the ordinary members of Christ's Church, which differ in their proper action, do set down the Elder to be over the people with diligence, and not to be occupied in the ministry of the word, either by exhortation or doctrine, but to admonish them and rule 
1. Thes. 5.  them: then our assertions must needs be certain:  
2 But the first is manifest. Rom. 12. 6. 7. etc.  
3 Therefore this hath been ordained by the Apostles.  
1 If the Apostle say in the 1. cor. 12. 
3. Reason.  that besides the Ministers of the Word, God hath set in his Church, Governors, than our Position is true:  
2 But he saith, God hath set first Apostles, thirdly, Teachers, Governors. etc.:  
3 Wherefore our Doctrine is not uncertain, but the lively truth of God his word.  
Unto these two they do object, that by these, Magistrates are meant, but that is plainly confuted by these reasons out of the Text. First, because the Apostle speaketh of them as of Church-Officers, and which were 
Rom. 12. 6. 1. Cor. 12. 13. 14. 27.  then the members of Christ's body, which then their Magistrates were not. secondly, he speaketh of them as of such gifts as came then newly by preaching of the gospel to the Gentiles, and such as they should then with zeal follow after. Rom. 12. 6. 1. Cor. 12. 31. Which the Apostles would neither say nor exhort them to do concerning the Magistrates office, for they never were so Annabaptistical, as to exhort their churches to be zealous, to become Magistrates. Thirdly, the Apostle doth after speak of the Magistrates and their duty, and of the church's duty to them. Rom. 13. Lastly, the Governors we speak of, in their government are placed as far under the Pastors and Teachers, as they are under the Apostles and Prophets, which if they dare say it of the Magistrates they are themselves become plain Annabaptists, and do clean overthrow the most rightful sovereignty of Princes over all persons and causes, as well Civil as Ecclesiastical. A fourth reason is, seeing our Saviour Christ, in setting down the Ecclesiastical Presbytery, speaketh according to the Jews, for otherwise the Apostles could not have understood him, when he said, tell the congregation or Church, which was the title then given unto the 
1. Cor. 13. 2. 9 Beza on this place.  Ecclesiastical Senate, and his words of having as a Publican and Heathen, doth manifestly prove he meant to speak according to their custom: It must needs be that he did according to the places afore brought, ordain a Presbytery of Pastors, Teachers, and Elders, 
Mark. 15. 1. Luke. 22. 16.  like unto theirs of Priests, Scribes, or Teachers of the Law, and their Elders which governed only.  
In the fift place, the precept of S. James, which willeth them to send for the Elders of the Church, when they be weak, 
james 5.  thereby plainly declaring, that the Church ought not only to have a Pastor and a Doctor, whose chief attendance must be 
1. Tim. 4.  on reading, exhortation and doctrine: But also many who ought always to be ready at the instant calling of divers and many at once, that none in the necessary work be neglected: it followeth thereby, that beside them, there ought to be such other elders, as may admonish the unruly, comfort the weak minded, & patiented 
1. Thes. 5.  towards all. Lastly, all those places which say, Elders were ordained Church by 
Acts. 14.  Church, that an accusation must not be taken against them under two witnesses 
1. Tim. 5.  and such like, do establish these; for seeing the words are general to both, as have been proved before, and no circumstance doth restrain them: nay, the circumstances uphold the general because in the first place, Luke's purpose is to declare how the Apostles brought the Churches to a perfect and full order of Church-government; and in the other, the Apostle had spoken immediately before of both sorts. Wherefore unless they will overthrow all certain sense of these places, and that notable rule of interpretation, that the words and sense of places, are not to be restrained but upon repugnance of places, or plain circumstances of Text, they must here understand both sorts of Elders. And thus much out of the Scriptures: now out of the Fathers. IGNATIUS AD TRULL. There is no Church which can stand without her Eldership 
Presbiterion Kai synedrion.  or Council. Tertull. Apoll. Cap. 39 If there be any that hath committed such a fault, that he be put away from the partaking of the Prayers of the Church, and from all holy affairs or matters: there be precedents, certain of the most approved ancients and Elders. Theophilact. on the place of Mat. interpreteth tell the Church, tell the Governors thereof. Ambrose 1. Timoth. 5. Complaineth that the Teachers and Ministers of the Word, suffered this to wear out of the Church, or rather of pride, whilst they only would seem to do somewhat. Now all know that the Elders, which they called Sacerdotes, Priests, were not worn out of use, therefore he may mean this, and this showeth what the Fathers meant. And CYPRIAN confirmeth that as manifestly, that it remained in his time: where (he saith) Lib. 4. Epi. 22▪ when either examining whether all things agreed to them which should be in those, who were prepared for the Ecclesiastical function. We gave it to Optatus, we with the Elders, 
Clerum.  Doctors, and readers, ordain him Teacher of those which hear. Which showeth there were Elders for Government, which were not occupied in any public divine service, distinguished not only from the Preachers but Readers. jerom also saith, The Christian Church also hath her Eldership. jer. 2. lib. in Isa. Which when he meaneth it of such as the Jews had, it is plain he meaneth those which we do, as may appear by his words of the Jews Elders, Ad Galas. quest. decim. They chose (saith he) of the wisest of their company for governors: which should aswell admonish those that had any corporal pollution to abstain from the assemblies, as to reprove the breakers of the Sabbath.   

A reply to the variable collections following, against the Discipline.  
HItherto we have had whatsoever force he could make against the several points of Church-government handled before. Now, because he thought the stench of the former dung was not strong enough, to overcome the sweet savour which the word casteth upon the Discipline; he hath tumbled together (as he thinketh) a great many diversities and contrarieties, drawn from the writings of those, which seek the Church-discipline: whereby he would feign fasten upon it, that it is not to be yielded unto, because the Authors are 
Page. 191  not At any accord or resolution amongst themselves, nor yet with other learned men: Also upon high old song, that these matters are in the liberty of the Church, it is a very nice and a dangerous scrupulosity, rather than to use that aright, which hath been once abused, that a man should go about to devise, and to lay out new platforms in Church-matters, 
Page. 191  in which of necessity such difficulties will daily arise, that cannot by any 
192  reach of man's wit be forecast, and will breed not only a continual toil, but also infinite dangerous innonations, both in the Church and commonwealth. Concerning which slanderous dealing of his, I will first generally speak of it, and then make answer to his several collections, adding unto every one of his, open contradictions & inconveniences of their side, not only drawn from the diversity of men's judgement, which in the best things are through human infirmity, at odds; but such as show the chief defenders to be at war with themselves, in the points which they maintain, & with the holy doctrine which they must needs confess. Now may it please the Reader, in the first place to consider, what iniutye this man doth, not only to the Discipline, but also to our holy Religion in this manner of dealing. For by this reasoning of his, it shall come to pass that the Religion when it was first preached by the Apostles, because it was joined with contrarieties and strifes, as of those of the Circumcision 
Act 11. & 15 Galat. 4.  with the rest, and sometimes with bitterness and difference between the Ministers, whilst one would have one that had forsaken the work go with them another would not: sometimes tumults and disorders following the same; it might well have been refused and east away: seeing the Professors were at variance, contended, and many inconveniences (in the reason of man) followed their preaching. By this means, the whole religion (which is in truth maintained of us, and of our brethren whom now they call Lutherans, as an uncertain and ungrounded religion, because of contrariety between us in the matter of the Sacrament, of the ubiquiti & other points) may be rejected of the papists, and their reason must be held as good, because they have as learnedly and truly gathered our diversities between ourselves, inconveniences following upon our Doctrine, as this man hath done in the matter of Ecclesiastical Discipline. Next unto this fowl injury done unto religion, his injury done unto so many worthy learned men, which have so well deserved of the Church of God: nay, his inviry done unto all the reformed Churches, in setting them together by the ears, in slandering them to like of, uphold and maintain, such a government as hath no witness of the Scriptures or ancient times, though they main tayne it by both) such as bringeth with 
Confirmation de la discipline ecclesiastic.  it, not only a maze and labarinth unto all commonweals, but which is at flat ennemity with Princes, overthroweth their government in Ecclesiastical causes, and by sudden alteration, turneth every thing upsie-downe. Which reproach though it be so apparent, as his own conscience smote him with the gylce of it, so as he would fain avoid the shame of it by colourable protestation, and 
Page. 191.  that before God, not to derogate from any tolerable order established in these external matters, yet he cannot choose but charge them, that they make Princes range with the rest of 
204.  their seniors and Church-governors, and that they debar princes of that right of government in matters and over persons ecclesiastical, which the word of God, & all the examples of godly kings of judae do afford unto us. The falsehood of which is not only manifest by this witness of haste, as good as a thousand against him: but also by the testimony which so many worthy writers, nay Princes and Magistrates in their practice and confessions have given to the same. Now, when the Christian Reader hath considered of this injury done unto GOD and his Church, to understand also, first that these are but Rhapsodies gathered at leisure, boasted of & cast in the teth of some long since, such as had otherwise been uttered ere this, but that no market would serve so well this. Secondly, that although He do as Sanballet, send us 
Nehem. 6. 6. ver. 7. 8. 9  in writing, word, that we would build up the wall of jerusalem, and make ourselves kings, when these things come to pass: and that we set up Prophets which may preach of us at jerusalem, there is a King at juda, every Pastor will be Pope: yea, and above the Prince in his Presbytery: Yet with good Nehemias we can truly answer, There is none of these things done, but thou dost invent them in thine heart, and that all this is but to cast a fear unto us: for they say their hands shall be weak from this work that they perfect it not. And therefore that our remedy is, seeing we use no means but by supplication, but by manifestation of the truth, and seek for nothing but Discipline, which by the book of ordination we promise to further according to our power, even to pray with the said Neh. Confirm (O God) our hands. The first contradiction (interlased with a lie, that they make him Antichrist, 
Page. 193  which refuseth the Presbytery.) is that we urge this as perpetual out of the place of Timothy, which Calvin doth refer to his ministry. which is no contradiction, seeing if it be referred to his office, yet it being a piece of Timothy's office, to procure that the things which he had learned of Paul, should be kept according to their nature and difference perpetually in the Church, it sufficiently proveth the matter in hand, otherwise how Can he keep it until the coming 
2. Tim. 2.  of Christ? Like to that is, the allegation out of the French discipline, that those articles which were there contained touching discipline, are not so settled amongst us, but that the unity (he should say) utility of the church so requiring, they may be changed. which I say, is a mere cavil, for they speak not, nor mean not it of the substance of discipline contained in the word, but their manner of setting it down according to the circumstances of their time, as is plain by Their title which calleth it 
Premier project.  but the first cast, brought of the substance of it, as it is contained in the Scriptures of the Apostles: Which substance, they were not so mad to change, though they judged they might alter them in many points of circumstances. For these silly contradictions, let him take these monstrous ones proceeding from this, that they will not acknowledge the perfection of the scriptures concerning discipline. One numbering up as a circumstance to come clothed or naked to the supper of the Lord, saith of those circumstances, None of these 
D. Whit. book. Page. 24. page. 25.  circumstances are commauded in the Scriptures, nor can by necessary collection be granted, yet he knoweth it doth necessarily appertain to comeliness. The next is that the Abstractor saith, the Ministers ought not to 
Page-194  wrest any thing into the government of the church, without due authority from the magistrate, which he would have contrary to that of the admonition & M. Cartwright, that our life must not be dear, as though we can not by suffering (if need were, for so the condition is put) afford, that, without doing any thing which hath not due authority from the Magistrate. His mingling of our sentence with Brownes, 
Page. 214.  is but a malicious proceeding: Seeing himself testifieth after, that we do more than mislike his doings and writings in respect of such proceedings. Like to this, is that he allegeth out of junius, that if the Prince do hinder the building of the Church, the people may by force of arms resist him. Which as it is not in the Page which he noteth, nor in all his book of Discipline: so how malicious a slander it is brought up, upon so worthy a servant of God, may appear by his whole treatise of the civil. Magistrate, Lib. 3. cap. 5. Where having showed how the Magistrate cannot alter the substantial points of Discipline, and handled that question to one objecting, What shall the Church do if it be (by the Magistrate's authority, commandment, threatening, and violence) compelled. He answereth, If the Magistrate ordain any thing contrary to God his word, that the Ministers should plainly and modestly declare with Paul, that they can do nothing against, but for the truth. But if the things be not contrary to the truth and necessity, that the Churches 
Page. 207.  are bound rather patiently to bear it, then to bring the holy ordinance of God, their body, and the common peace into danger. Concerning excommunication, shall be spoken after. The book he nameth of obedience I have not. The other matter out of the book deiure Magistratum, as not pertaining to us, I purpose not to meddle with, especially considering he handleth it more like a Lawyer then otherwise. But after he hath alleged testimonies to prove that, Which none but Papists and Annabaptistes 
Page. 196.  will deny, that it is traitorous to teach the people that they should owe no service to evil kings, he addeth, lest this long treatise should seem altogether impertinent, that he could not choose but oppose to the fanatical 
Page. 197.  spirits and traitorous allegations, both of these dangerous innovators, & of the rebellious Papists. But alas, why are we poor Ministers (as he calleth us before, whom a man of mean estate will not regard) so dangerous? He answereth, because we would have our sovereigns' kingdom to be holden at the chief inferior magistrates, the people or Presbyteries devotion. Oh heaven, O earth, O Lord our God, the searcher of the secreats of all hearts, the author of the holy discipline we seek, reveal (we beseech thee) our horrible treason: bring upon us & our children for ever utter confusion in this life, & in the life to come, if this wickedness be either intended, thought upon, or be likely to follow upon the discipline which we seek, or upon our desire of the same. If you, O you holy fathers, and ministers of God, which have writetn for, defended, maintained, & with great danger attained unto this, may not clear our cause by the un feigned fidelity which you have showed to christian Princes: yet let your wisdom & experience, Oh you Princes and Magistrates, which have received it, honoured it, tried it, bear witness unto the innocency of this cause. Shall that which hath been a friend to magistrates, when they were enemies to it, be enemies to Magistrates, when they should be friends unto it: Shall that which D. Whitgift himself confesseth (namely, That such Seniors 
D. Whit▪ last book. 161.  were, but long ago worn out of use. For which he allegeth, the sentence of Ambrose before alleged) shall, that I say, called for of that holy man, become traitorous & pernicious to the state? Can the office of an Archbishop in the second place of the land, doing all that alone, and more in Church-matters then the seniors, having with it civil power and authority be free from this suspicion: and cannot Ministers and Elders of base account in the world, meddling only as the Apostles, with spiritual matters & that according to the word of God, be void of all surmise of such villainous practice: can their counsels be accounted safe, where none come but themselves, whom they will & who are devoted to their honour & kingdom ecclesiastical? And shall the ministers consultations be so fit for such practices where so many Elders (as he saith lay men) of all degrees may be present, where the Magistrates may have both their eyes & their ears? Whose decrees in all matters of greatest weight, of Excommunication, Election, Abdication, ending of common controversies, must come under the conscience of all men: yea, whose whole acts and counsels may easily be seen, by the Magistrate, who may force them to a new course, if they do any thing prejudicial to the estate? The good king jehoshaphat, according to the Word of God, and the example of his father David, ordained besides the 
1. Chron. 27 30.  Priests and Levites in all Cities, the chief of Families for the judgements of the Lord, and for the matters of God besides 
2. Chro. 19 8. 11.  others appointed for civil matters, called the king's matters. Now, shall we think, that he could not see into the matters of a kingdom and the safety thereof, aswell as this man? The Princes of juda at their return, when their state was subject unto so many dangers, when their Prophets conspired against 
Hesr. 10. 8.  them, yet upheld the Ecclesiastical Presbytery to threaten excommunication and separation from God's people, to the obstinate sinners, as well they themselves did confiscation of goods and civil punishment: neither were they ever jealous over their estate. Wherefore, seeing we have such a cloud of witnesses of these times and of former, both under the law and under the Gospel, we need not fear but their lying & ironforhead in charging us with such traitorous opinions, shallbe manifest to all, and shall turn upon their own heads. For manifestation whereof; let the Magistrates consider what is written of them highly derogatory unto their estate and freedom, which they make them believe that they maintain. First they say the form and manner of Church government may be altered 
Page. 192. 〈…〉. 3●9.  by the Magistrate▪ then they say the external government of the Church under a Christian Magistrate must be according to the form of government used in the commonwealth. Which is flat contrary to that, that the Christian Magistrate may alter at their good pleasure. Which also driveth the Queen's most excellent majesty, either to part her Crown with some other, or else must make one Archbishop not only of bishops, but also over Archb. that in the Church there may be a Monarch, as well as in the commonwealth. Again, when they say the Archb. is contained under S. Paul's Bishop, they leave it not in the Magistrate's power to take away his jurisdiction, how dangerous so ever it be to her estate. Again, let them consider into what a low place they bring the Magistrate into, in the Church, when expounding the place of the Corinth's of him, they make 
D. Whit. last. b. devis. 6. 7. page, 631.  him go after the teacher, & therefore much more after the Archbi. Having therefore noted these their open contradictions & most absurd opinions, prejudicial indeed to her majesties authority: let us ere we pass from this general, (what the form of ecclesiastical government is) consider once again of his assertion, and see whether it bewray not manifest ignorance, contain not contradiction & repugnance in itself, and be not highly derogatory to Christ & his scriptures. His words are these pag. 192. Now as concerning the inward government of the Church of Christ by his spirit, God working in his children, by the Ministers of his written revealed word: & also touching the essential points of the outward policy & government of the church, consisting in the true teaching of the word of God, in the due administration of sacraments according to christs holy institution, in the advancement & furthering of virtue, with the beating down of sin and impiety, and in keeking the Church in a quiet unity and good order, there is no difference of opinion amongst us. And a little after, we affirm that no such precise & exact form of external government of the Church by discipline, as they depaint it out, is so much as by any example recommended unto us in scripture: but much less commanded, as a continual platform for ever to be followed. In which assertion omitting the nakedness of it, armed with no proof out of the scripture or any good reason, let us see how it showeth such gross ignorance as is not to be lucked for in a man of his gifts, for it deleareth that he can not distinguish between the cause, instrument and means of a thing, and the thing itself, between government and the essential parts of government and the fruits of it. For government Ecclesiastical, that is, the spiritual administration of Christ by the order, and instruments of his Church which he hath ordained, is a different thing from the truth of it, which is the advancement of virtue, the beating down and suppressing of sin and impiety, the keeping of the Church in a unity and quiet order: which being the effect of Christ's kingdom and his government, 
Esa. 31. 1. 2. 3  he maketh them the essential parts of it. So that he hath not learned yet to put a difference Between the kingdom of God, and God's righteousness established by it, Nor between the two 
Math. 7.  petitions of the lords prayer, that his kingdomr may come, and the fruit of this, That his will may be done in earth as in heaven. Again, he granteth the essential parts of Christ's kingdom▪ and outward policy of the Church, but he denieth any exact form, as though there can be essential points of outward government perpetual, and yet they shall have no perpetual form. Can there be an outward essential thing without a form? Or can the essence be perpetual and changeable, and the form variable and mutable: Can there be an immutable outward government without immutable outward callings, offices and works: This is to give a man without members, a skin for a body without bones and flesh. Lastly, how injurious is this unto Christ? he will acknowledge the benefit must be had, but he will not acknowledge the hand whereby it is given. Christ is wise enough, still to administer and rule, and that he will give him leave to do. But that he is wise enough to do it by his own 
1. Cor. 12. 2. 4. etc.  means, that he being The only Lord should appoint the divers administrations of his Church always, that his spirit Should minister fully sufficient diversity of gifts: that one God should work the sufficient divers faculties always, That is untolerable, false, seditious, hurtful to the estate. He can allow the people should be taught, and exhorted, and have the Sacraments: but whether by Readers or by Teachers, by reading Homilies, or by Pastors, 
Eph. 4. 11. Rom. 12. 6. 7.  by men or women, God his word doth not define; the people must be ruled, but whether by Governors appointed by Christ, or by men: He must 
1. Cor. 12.  relieve his poor with alms, but whether by his Deacons or others: that he must separate between the clean, 
Acts. 6.  and unclean cast out the wicked, but whether by his Church and Eldership 
Mat. 18.  or some other, must by no means be determined. As if one should say, it is essential and perpetual, that we have our entrance into Christ and his Church, our growing and nourishing in the same sealed up perpetually, but that it shall be done only by Baptism and the lords Supper, and not also by confirmation that, may not be granted. Christ was wise enough, and willing enough to ordain the effects, but not the instruments. If he say he commanded them saying, Baptize, do this: So we say he commanded the other saying, I have set Teachers, Governors, 
1. Cor. 12. Rom. 12. 6. Mat. 18.  saying, let the Doctor abide in Teaching, the Pastor in exhortation, the Elder in ruling, the Deacon in distributing, 
ver. 7. 7. 8.  the Church even the Eldership to be told and to excommunicate. Lastly, it is as if one should say, I can well allow her most excellent majesty for her excellent wisdom, to see the commonwealth administered, justice executed, matters rightly pleaded, & determined: but that this shallbe done by her most honourable counsel, by her chief justices, by her justices of peace, by her Shiriefes and Bailiffs, by her Sergeants at the law, that I can not like or allow of. As for the place of Tertulian, it is plain, he meaneth it of the discipline in the course of life, which is changeable, as may appear by the testimenies alleged in the first point. His next contradiction is concerning the means of living, that the French church would have, the rents and revenues delivered to the Deacons, so the minister receive his stipend, but the book of Discipline, T. C. and the Admonition speaketh earnestly against those who gape after Church-livings and turn it to their purses and pleasure, as 
Page. 197 Page. 198  though these could not stand together, that they should be delivered to the Church only, and turned to holy use, & that it should be administered by the Deacons: or as though the plainness of the one in reproving an abuse, be contrary to the good order taken by the other. Howsoever it be, so the Christian Magistrate see the poor cared for by the Deacons, and that they who preach the Gospel live of the Gospel, and that the 
1. Corin. 9 Proverb. 4. Galath. 6.  Lord be thus honoured with our substance, we acknowledge he doth his duty towards the Church: But if these want and the things given to that use, be turned to the private commodity of some, there is a defect in that behalf.  
But now this valiant champion will overthrow the Eldership by such weapons as follow, for T. C. Doth teach it from the jewish Synedrion and out of the Talmud, which according to Bonaventur and Danaeus handled civil things: which our presbytery may not do. To which I answer that T. C. doth not fet it from the Talmude, but from the word of God, as his whole disputation doth show in that point: only he showeth that this presbytery hath been continued under the Law and under the Gospel, which is true and agreed upon by all three which he speaketh of. It is also as falls that Bonaventure speaketh so of the Ecclesiastical. Senate by itself, for that which 
Boneven. cap. 18. fine. Danaeus. c. 10. lib, 2. Isag. 2. part.  he noted is of the civil and politic synedrion, Cap. 13. but he maketh afterward when he handleth the Ecclesiastical policy of that time besides the priest and besides the Teachers in every Synagogue Senetors, which inquired of their manners: which is manifest by Exod. 4. 29. Exod. 17. 5. 2. King. cap. 6. 32. jer. 19 1. Ezech. 8. 1. and Neh. 8. 5. Where are Elders occupied in Ecclesiastical matters, assistant to the Prophets and teaching Levites, and yet distinguished from them, so as they meddled not with the Word. Danaeus in deed saith they meddled sometimes with civil administrations which ours do not, which thing yet maketh no contradiction to us, seeing we say with him, that to ours is given by Christ Ecclesiastical authority only. But the truth is, that they were then plainly distinguished, some being for the 
1. Chr. 27. 30 2. Chron. 19 8. 11.  matters of God, and some for civil causes, the matters of the king. Now, the cause of this which Danaeus speaketh of was, that in weighty matters both came together, because the politic laws of the Jews were for the most part defined and set down in the word of God, they, the Priest, levites, and Ecclesiastical Elders, were there to pronounce the sentence Ecclesiastically: that is, to pronounce the sense of God's word in that cause: the Princes, chief of the people, and civil Senate, were to pronounce Civilly and judicially the sentence of death, or such like according to the sense of the Scriptures. Secondly by the causes, that when the Ecclesiastical Senate cometh to the Civil, the matters are thus mixed, as Jeremy 26. 16. But when the matter is Civil merely, and no Question of the sense of the Scriptures, than it is of Magistrates only: as 1. chro. 28. 1. 1. chro. 13. 1. Or when the matters were merely Ecclesiastical, then was the Ecclesiastical Senate only brought together, as in consultation. 2. king. 6. 32. As in matters to be done in the congregation. Act. 13. 15. For Excommunication John. 9 22. 10. 40. For interpretation, the Priests and Levites only, Math. 24. And lastly by this, that Peter being before both the Senate's Ecclesiastical and Civil, doth plainly distinguish them, calling the one 
Archontes tou laou. Presbyteroi.  the chief or rulers of Israel, the other the Elders of Israel. Wherefore this proveth not that they did exercise civil authority: and although our laws political, are not in this respect like unto the Jews, yet if the Magistrate will call the Eldership to declare the will of God, or pronounce duly an Ecclesiastical sentence, when he will pronounce a Civil, it may well be done without the confusion he speaketh of. The next that he saith out of Caluine, the Presbitries of the Jews was from men, not from heaven is false: for Calvin saith only, since the captivity 
Dilecto.  it was chosen for the censure of manners, but he saith also in that place that that 
Dilecto.  regiment was lawful and allowed of God, and that Christ did worthily praise the order delivered of the fathers, and that which was kept under the law Christ sent unto us. Now the Fathers under the law, did not any of those things and less than these, but by God his commandment, by his 
2. Chr. 29. 25  Prophets: yea, this was commanded both that in every City and that for more difficult causes at Jerusalem such Senate should be appointed. Deut. 1. 8. 9 etc. The like untruth is it that Musculus understood it of the whole Congregation. for even as D. Whitgift alleged him, pag. 633. He saith, It was by Seniors in Ecclesiastical assembly. As untrue is the other that Caluine saith, Neither in Christ's time, nor 22. years after, this Christian Eldership was established: for he saith in that place, Where Christ a little after erected his Church, the corruption being taken away, he did restore the pure use of Excommunication: And that there is no doubt but this order of discipline, which flourished under the kingdom of Christ, succeeded into the place of that old, and it is plain by the Scripture as soon as there was an ordinary set Congregation, there were Elders which joined with the Apostles in Church-government. Act. 12. 30. Acts. 15. 6. Acts. 21. 18. Neither must they by example of the Jews have but one for a Nation only, seeing it hath been showed, such were in every City and Synagogue, 
Mark. 5. 22. Acts. 13. 15. Act. 18. 8. 17.  whereas if we should square it after this his pattern, we should have one only for the whole Church. That he saith the Apostles would not have executed the deacons office all Christ's time, He babbleth fables which he knoweth not, for their office in Christ's time was only to preach and baptise in judaea, and to be witnesses of 
Mark. 3 14. joh 4. 2. 28. Act. 1. 21. 22.  Christ's life, doctrine, death, resurrection and ascension: That which they did at Jerusalem, was but to take care for the poor, till they had fit persons and occasion to establish the order which Christ ordained: neither did they it only because they were withdrawn (which if they were, being so many, how much more shall Ministers and Bishops be, if they look to these and to civil affairs also) but also 
Ar●ston.  because it was not acceptable (meaning to God) thus to do, when they had by God his blessing both such persons, place and time as he required. All the rest of his some of words that neither father, Council, nor Scripture hath left in memory where, when or by whom it was first erected & put in practise, is worse than nothing. For it was done of the Apostles at Jerusalem, long before the council, as is proved out of Act. 12. 30. But this showeth their giddiness, y● say sometime, that it hath no testimony, either of scripture or antiquity, and yet again, confess and allege 
D. Whitgifts' s. book page. 651.  Ambrose, to prove that Seniors have been, and that they were extinguished before Ambrose his time, which they will not say of Elders which minister the Word and Sacraments, for they were not extinguished before Ambrose his time neither yet are. Also that they say the Bishops differ, and are above other ministers, for policy and order only, and 
Ibid. Page. 385.  yet make them differ in the Ministry of grace as in the sentence of Exco●●●ucation, of Absolution, (and according to their Doctrine) of ministering strength against temptations by confirmation: For these they make proper to the Bishop and not common to every minister, and notwithstanding the Minister must read the Excommunication: yet the word, sentence and authority doth come from the Bishop, and for Absolution it is enough to go to him or his Delegate. The next contrarieties agree like friends: for, both all Is not expressed in the Scripture as the book of Discipline saith, and yet all may be proved by direct Scripture, Seeing whatsoever is necessarily collected thence, (though it be not expressed) is directly proved. Also the next is of as little value, for both Ministers and Preachers, as Caluine saith, may be understood, and also governing Elders, as Beza noteth. 
Beza on that place.  The next is an open lie, for Beza saith on that place of Tim. 5. 17. Therefore there were two sorts of Elders, When 
Duplices.  one sort should attend on government, the other on the Word & prayer. Of such force is the next, for the book of Discipline agreeth in judgement with M. Cartwight, that in the place of the 1. Tim. 3. under Deacous are comprehended both those, properly so called, and the Elders. For M. Cartwright referreth himself to that observation. Pag. 54. and proveth it because the qualities there set down 
S. rep. S. part.  are common to both, and there are none touched proper to either, and the Word Deacons is taken in divers places for all those Ministers which are not occupied in the word as Rom. 12. 6. 1. Pet. 4. 11. The next is like to that of the 14. of the Act, and so to be answered. Also one may gather The Eldership out of the. 1. Cor. 12 (For of the 14. none doth) and out of the other places both, unless he be so learned in divinity that he think divers places cannot prove one thing. His other cavil is not worth a rush: for in one respect Deacons signifying sometime all Ministries not occupied in the word, may be a Genus or general to Elders and Deacons so called. Also the name Bishop being generally given of their work of watching or our-seeing Act. 20. unto Elders, may be common both to ministers and governing Elders, which disagreeth not with this that Elders be teaching and unteaching. It is true also which is observed by the book of Discipline, that the name of Elders is not given to those Deacons which are distributers, and his written book may be overseen in so small a thing as that. And so having seen his waterish objections let us see how his side, being drunk with the thirst of honour, do contrary themselves in one and the same point. For when the place of the Ephesians is brought against an Arrchb. as numbering up all the Ministries of the Word, & yet leaving out that, the answer is, it is not 
D. Whitg. s. book. Page. 309.  perfect, for Deacons are left out: and in the next page, that he speaketh only of the ministers of the word in the place of the Ephesians. And again in the place of the 1. 
Ibid.  Cor. ●2. The Apostle leaveth out Euangelluns', and yet in the next page, out of doubt the division of the Apostle there is perfect, And yet again. pag. 317. It is perfect. here note that to say, It is not perfect, it is perfect, it is not perfect, of one and the same place, and in the same respect are evidently contrary. There is no contradiction between this which is 
Page. 203.  said, that bishops livings, etc., be turned to maintain the ministry, and yet that noble men being Elders have no maintenance of the Church, I can find no such thing in the sixth Art. of French discipline, & if there were, their meaning is, that they may not exercise any dominion or cheefedome over the Deacons. Neither is it any disorder if in an Ecclesiastical Senate and in the church, the minister be preferred before his Lord, to conceive prayer, to propound matters: For it is not absurd for one to be superior and inferior in divers respects: the Father inferior to the Son, which is above him in delivering the word. The first place out of Simler is not greatly material, if they choose some elder to moderate, though it belong unto the Pastor, yet it proveth not, but that he is Superior in opening the word unto them in chose matters which are debated. The next though it be a geeate blemish and maim, not to have an Ecclesiastical Presoyterye: yet it enforceth no contradiction, seeing that cannot be the Presbyterye spoken of in the scripture, where by his own interpretation ministers are understood. His conclusion which he would infer out of the Discipline of France, that because Magistrates are of the consistory, and to be directed by the Pastor, therefore they would range Princes with their seniors, is diversly vain. For first it is no reason, seeing the Prince may be subject to the Ministry of the Pastor and Elders, and yet never Subject or inferior to their persons. secondly, it is manifest by their conditions, that they meant not the supreme Magistrates when they say: If one shall not hinder the exercise of the other, Which must needs be in Princes, considering their multitude of affairs. In the Book of the 
Page. 205. 206.  Soldier of Berwick, If their be any unreverent speech, we allow it not: yet if any Prince will do any thing without Gods warrant in Church-matters, It must not be obeyed, otherwise whatsoever is beyond this, we condemn as undiscreet. In the next, that he might make the Discipline enemy to Princes, he turneth up again that which sober men long ago have left and consented unto. The first is, that we would have the Ecclesiastical Senate to administer Ecclesiastical matters. Would not Jehosephat also have the Priests 
1 Chro. 19  and levites to administer the matters of God? And what hath he brought of our books, which is not as fully set down by those reverent men of God, B. jewel & M. Nowell. Seeing they say, as long as 
Defense of the Apol. 6. part. Ch. 11. devis. 11. & 12. Ch. devis. 4. M. Nowell. tom. 2. part 35. 38.  the Ministers be Godly and learned, it is necessary they should decide these matters: that the Prince is commanded to have recourse unto them in doubtful matters, that it belongeth to the bishops office, to decide of such causes: but Christian Princes have rather to do with these matters, then ignorant and wicked Priests and that in case of necessity the Prince ought to provide for convenient remedy. As for his slander that we agree with the Papists to give Christian Princes power of fact, but not of Law and authority to promote and set forward, not to intermeddle in causes Ecclesiastical. We esteem it no more than a fowl untruth, which every, man of judgement can convince For if they have authority in our judgement by the word of GOD, to see to their ministry, and to cause them to make such Laws, as they know agreeable to God's word: to authorize such, and disannul the contrary: cause them to make good, when they would make ill: or orderly to procure such as can and will be present in the action, and give their consent if it please them, (all which are given by T. C. 
b. second. p. 167.  and by us all unto the magistrate,) then do we grant them no more than power of fact? then to promote matters? And in speaking against us herein, doth he not direct himself against the very Laws, and orders of the Church? Which is, that the Convocation-house do make Ecclesiastical Laws: and if they be good, the Queen giveth her royal assent, and then they must be obeyed; if not, then that they are no Law? His second point whereby he would make us odious, is, that we think the Prince may be Subject to Excommunication, that is, that he is a Brother. Deutr. 17. 15. Math. 18. 15. that he is not without but within the Church. 1. Corinth. 5. 12. 13. If this be dangerous, why is it printed and allowed in the famous writings of Byshope jewel: in that the Priest doth his 
Def. apol. part 6. Page. 720.  office, when he excommunicateth and cutteth off a dead member from the body: so far forth the Prince, be he never so mighty is inferior to him: yea, not only to a bishop, but to a simple Priest? Why is it suffered which Master Nowell hath 
Tom. 2. fol. 53.  written: The Prince ought patiently to abide Excommunication at the bishops hands? Why are not the examples of 
Euseb. lib. 6. Cap. 14. Theod. 5, 18.  worthy Emperors razed out of the Histories, seeing they have been subject to this censure? Why did the reverend Father, B. of L. reckon up such examples not long since at Paul's Cross? The next cavil is not worth the answer: for they of France may call whomsoever they think good, to give them light in any Question, and therefore much more professors of Divinity. So is the next, for both they and Bullinger, may make teaching generally incident to the Pastor's office, for so it is common both to Pastor and Doctor; yet to apply his special gift and labour that way, may be proper to the teacher or Doctor, as is proved in the treatise of that point before. The Book of Bertram I have not, neither is it material if he differ from truth in some point, through human infirmity: For they themselves say, they condemn the error of those, who say that Children are damned, 
D. Whit. b. s. pag, 52  which die without Baptism as much as we, and yet is it written of their side, that want of Baptism is a probable sign of reprobation: When as we say it is no sign at all of rejection. This opponing of the Admonition and Bertram, and the Church of France, is ridiculous. For though they say that Ministers, Elders, and Deacons, are for Church discipline (whereby discipline they mean the order of the Church 
Page. 7. 8.  generally) yet in the government of the Presbytery they join only the Elders with the Ministers, and to the Deacons they give nothing, but the care for the poor and to give advise as the French Churches say, is not only granted to Deacons, but unto all, as ●u●re occasion shall serve. Concerning the difference of widows, T. C. saith. Where the conditions fall out, which are set down in 1. Tim. ●. there they ought according to that rule to be established. Wherein he agreeth with Daneus: and the book of Discipline doth not deny but that where there are such women and causes, they may, and aught to be so found of the Church, and are to serve the Church, in such service as they shall put them to, only he findeth no one peculiar and proper service whereunto they are tied, but are to be employed by the Deacons, under whom they are contained, and in all this there is no difference worth the speaking of, much less contradiction. In the next, the question is only of a circumstance how long they should continue: wherein if Berna differ somewhat from us, what is that unto the matter in hand? what hurt to the substance of the cause? The next objection doth answer itself, that as they used them then in some respects, as the Deacon, to Catechise, and such like, which they thought the straights of the Church drove them unto: ●o otherwise for their office we do see they do in their confession acknowledge, That the church must he governed with the policy, which 
Harm. confess. Gal. confess. page. 53 art. 30 Lafoy confirmation de La Discipline ecclesiastic obseruee, es eglises reformees du royalme du France page. 7.  Christ hath ordained: & that the offices of elders, and Deacons are part of that policy. Also that it is a part of his Gospel, & is confirmed to (be perpetual to have such a government) in their public writing to the end. As fond is the next out of Daneus, which declareth, that although the Churches after the Apostles, chose the Elders and Deacons to be perpetual: yet it also sayeth there is no such thing defined of in the Scriptures, which proveth, that it is a circumstance which may be altered according to the estate of the Church. In the next he quoteth Bucer as repugnant to T. C. but nameth no place where we shall find it. Daneus doth not contrary him, but acknowledging it the order of God, doth only show what was done in small churches, adjoined to the great and populous, there being sufficient persons in the one, which were not at the first in the other, notwithstanding the Apostles ordained it Church by Church Acts 14. And every Church must have them to send for, Jam. 5. and the causes of them 
Neh. 8. 1. Thes. 5. Rom. 12.  which are to be assistant to the Pastor, to administer the ecclesiastical censures, to watch over the people and admonish them, are a like every where. Now if the Churches be too little, the bodies of several congregations ought so to be ordered, 
Rom. 12. 5. 6 7. 1, Co. 12. Esay. 62. 8.  as they may have all the members which Christ hath set, for the perfection and beauty of his body: upon all the walls of Jerusalem there must be watchmen, and upon Every habitation of mount Zion, 
Esay. 4. 5. 6.  upon her meetings and Congregations, there must be this presence of God, as a cloud by day, and a fire by night: For look what places they can bring for the perpetuity, and for the right of every Church for a Pastor: The same or like may be brought for the Elder. Whereof it cometh▪ that Ignatius said, as he is alleged before, No Church can stand without her Eldership. And justinus made his apology, wherein this Eldership is mentioned for all Churches. Wherefore, whatsoever Daneus grant was done for a time, till the Churches might conveniently be brought to a convenient stature, neither being too high nor too short, and to be beautiful bodies, neither wanting a member, nor having one too much, that must not prejudice the institution of Christ: which Daneus confesseth, When 
Part. 2. Isag. lib. 2. c. 10. page. 191. 192.  he saith they must look to the Church, house by house, and publicly also, to the whole and to the sick. Of two Consistories in a city it may be he hath read of, but in one particular Church, of two Ecclesiastical Senates, I will then believe it, when he bringeth us a more certain direction, than yet he hath done to find it: and if they did, seeing the inconveniences (as he sayeth) bring it to the right order: what prejudice is that to the truth? In the next point of counsels, there is no contrariety between the admonition, and the French Churches order: For they say they may definitively define causes in a provintiall Synod, (although I can not find those words by his quotation): And the admonition saith so, except there be a general counsel, and they will have it there. For there is no reason if they will order it fitly at hoam, to carry it to a general counsel. And I pray are these two so contrary? They may end it, and they may end it, except they think it better to refer it to a general counsel. In passing from this difference to the next, he setteth peremptorily, that it is manifest, that there is no certain form of electing Ecclesiastical officers used by the Apostles, but reason he showeth none whereby it may appear: So that if his Doctorship say it, we must take it from him as undoubtedly, as if he had it by revelation. For confutation of which folly, we may say thus much: That seeing in the Ministers, examination is to be had, of knowledge, of doctrine, of ripeness to expound the Scriptures, and in a word of aptness to teach; it is manifest, that as the governing of this action belongeth to the Eldership, and is to be done with public prayers, that besides 
Acts. 14.  the governing Elders there must be ministers, who may be able thoroughly to judge and examine, to conceive public prayer, and to deliver to the Church by doctrine, exhortation, whatsoever is expedient in this case. Which thing is evident, not only by the perpetual reason of it, but also by the constant and unchangeable practice of the Apostles, in the first of the Acts, in the sixth of the Acts, in the 14. in the 1. Tim. 3. of Tit. 1. Only it is to be noted, that it is not committed to one, no not so much as to 
1. Tim. 4.  ordain, much less to elect, but the ordination is by the Eldership. And Timothy could not carry the matter away, but had a charge for his own part, To keep himself pure, and not to communicate 
1. Tim. 5.  with other men's sins whatsoever other Elders did in this case. Now, as this order is certain and unvariable, both in the reason and practise of it: so the circumstances, whether it shall be by 6. or by 7. Ministers: by a conference only, or by a synod (saving where it may be, the more the better) is left to the disposition of the church. Wherefore it is not only without reason, but also sense, & contrary to his professed knowledge, to proclaim war amongst the Churches for this matter of circumstance, when they all have the substance, agreed upon in God's word, and do not tie themselves or others to the particular circumstances. It is also as absurd, that he setteth down as a contrariety to the election of the Elders and people, that they allowed the Officers chosen by the consistory, or by voices of the people, or by one Minister, as though that were derogatory to a right order, to ratify that by good authority, which was at the first imperfectly done. Yet that is most absurd which he doth obtect against the author of the Abstract, as though he were contrary to 
Page. 211.  this order, because he would have the people give their consent, seeing as hath been showed these may not only agree, but ought unseparably to be joined together in Church-lections. For if either by silence, or otherwise they signify their consent, and the election be not made, but sufficient deliberation be given them to show just causes of their 
Page. 212.  dislike, or gladly to accept them: It is all one, as hath been proved in the treatise to that purpose. In the next objection he must first prove, that we descent before he have an answer for to have it done by the consistory, and to adjoin a conference are not contrary. The next is answered in the treatise of the election of Church-officers. The next is an untruth. For the confirmation De la dis. Eccles. showeth, that the people give their consent and approbation, according to the 14. of the Acts. Page. 233. The next we take but for a poor cavil, grounded (unless he make it appear which he speaketh of some which hold it lawful to pick a quarrel and leave the ministry) upon a slander. In deed if at one man's pleasure for truths sake, they be put out, to seek an honest way to live is not unlawful, nor contrary to the decree of the French Churches, that they be chosen to be Ministers their whole life, unless they be discharged lawfully, unto which decree all agree. The next of depositions receiveth the same answer which the elections do: for the authority which electeth, must be that which deposeth, and the Discipline of France meaneth no otherwise: And of Excommunication, there is the like judgement. The Author of the Abstract can best expound his meaning, and his words bear no such collection as he gathereth. For in saying the Minister may do it, and that by Law in his charge, aswell as the Bishop in his Diocese: He doth not authorize the bishop to do it alone, but with due consent to whom it doth appertain. In the next, when he showeth who that some be, which make decision of controversies incident to every Presbytery, otherwise then if they can with contentation agree of the truth amongst themselves: we will give his answer to it: In the mean time we judge of it as of the rest: that it is, untrue. The like of the two other (excepting Brown, for whom he hath his answer) and of the next about Godfathers. Concerning the next point, the which he saith of the Churches of France, that they think it lawful to baptise without an assembly: I can not believe it, unless I have better direction than the 7. article of their Discipline, in which I can find no such thing, though I find some other articles there, which he hath alleged thence: wherefore I fear that it is a fiction. Concerning Holidays, let him first show, that the Churches observe them in manner of a Sabbath, wholly to rest from their labour, and then T. C. with his reasons, or the churches with theirs, must give place to the truth. The diversity about popish Priests is answered before in the treatise of that matter. The next are but slanders, to which he giveth no credit by any testimony, and are confuted before in the treatise of the Doctor. It is also a manifest untruth, that T. C. misliketh wholly That any are suffered to preach nor having a Pastoral charge. For he speaketh generally of such as have no charge, neither Pastoral, nor Doctoral. For he would have both tied to a certain place, yea the Elders Preaching in other men's cures or charges, whereunto men are not lawfully called, we condemn according to the judgement of the French Churches neither doth he note any where we might find the contrary. In ordaining of ceremonies, the admonition meaneth no otherwise than the French Churches: for though the Eldership abollishe those which are unprofitable, yet it may be done with consent & allowance of other Churches; for which cause he entreateth of conferences page. 30. 31. etc. That he saith of the admonition, as though they misliked a prescript form of prayer, is an utter untruth, for there are not any words which show they mislike a prescript form of prayers. As for unleavened bread, it is but proper to Geneva only, & now our Church hath allowed the other: why should he then make any difference or strife about it? The matters of marriage or such like here named, as they are handled with us are civil; but as they become doubtful in any question of God his word, or what is expedient for the Church to do, for avoiding of offence, belongeth unto the Ecclesiastical signiory: and so that difference is answered. In the other also it is defended, as unlawful for a Minister of the word, to be occupied in Civil affairs. Against this, he in vain bringeth an exception in Elders, which rule only. Neither is it simply a Civil thing to give testimonies in writings for to do it, for matters Ecclesiastical: as for soundness of faith, for assuring them to be received which were excommunicate, or such like, it is an Ecclesiastical, not a Civil action. Touching the order of the French Church, for publishing of Books, we consent, that where the Discipline is established and an order taken, that men with modesly in a Synod may be sufficiently heard, and satisfied, that it ought to be in force, and as an ecclesiastical order obeyed; from which yet a man may serve, being driven to give defence to the truth of God. The next setteth his conceits in the laughter of all men. For may we not mislike, that he which ordaineth, should bid the ordained, receive the holy Ghost, which he can not give, nor hath promise that his imposition of hands shall distribute avy gifts, and yet allow that that place for instruction be repeated and entreated of? Concerning his long srory of subscription, this may be sufficient shortly to answer, both to show our ●uitye in judgement with the Churches, and also to satisfy the Church of England. First therefore we say, that we have always been ready, according to our duty to subscribe to her majesties supreme authority, and to the Articles of religion, concerning the doctrine of faith and of the Sacraments, which is all that is required by law. Secondly, when (as it is in France) the substance of Discipline shall be out of the word confirmed, and the controversies between us equally and orderly decided: We will also be bound to subscribe as they are. His first quotation out of the Adm. doth set down that in a different letter, which is not there to be found. Which practise is done only to disgrace us unjustly with the Magistrate. The other two sentences, though we judge them somewhat hardly set down, yet they must be charitably interpreted, according to the course of their Book; the first of the truth of Discipline, not of doctrine, the other of Ministers, so called and enabled as God his word doth allow. The rest is worth no answer, the matter being handled before, and 
On the Act. 1. & 6  Gualther being a party with you against M. jewel and M. Nowell in that point, though against you in the question of Church election. Now, in stead of this heap of disagreements which are at one with themselves, let him accord these following, drawn from the writers 
D. Whitg. s. book. Page. 146.  who are of his judgement. No man for any crime is to be secluded from any law fall vocation, if he repent him and become a new man, and there be no general commandments contrary hereunto: But this doctrine is consonant to the whole course of the Gospel, Yet we all hold that Traitors are not to be admitted Bishops, or of the Queen's Guard. They maintain this speech of Ambrose 
Ibid. page 191.  on the 4. of the Ephes. In the beginning it was permitted to every one to preach the Gospel, baptise and expound the Scriptures; but when the Church was enlarged, certain Parishioners were appointed, and goucrnors, and other officers ordained in the Church. Yet now Ministers may not preach without a licence. It is defended by the former Book, that The word of God is as effectual when it is read, as when it is preached, and reading is preaching, yet the Book of Common-prayer preferreth Preaching before Homilies. And himself saith, that Preaching is the most excellent means to engender faith. This man condemneth and rejecteth Doctors as new, yet the former book Page 425. saith, that by ancient writers. A Catechistes' office was necessary in the Church, and distinct from the Pastor. The same book fol. 700. in the marginal note hath, Nothing ought to be read under the name of Scripture but the Canonical, 
In the rubric how the rest of holy scripture. etc. jewel apol. p. 2. p. 122.  Contrary to the book of Common prayer which appointeth the apocrypha to be read under the name of holy scripture. jewel saith, that for one bishop to have authority over an other, is neither by Christ, Peter, nor Paul, nor by any right of God his word. Yet they do by preaching and writing still maintain it by the examples of Peter, Timothy, and Titus. In the answer to the authority of Peter Martyr, it is said that in our Church 
D. whit. in the end.  religion is only reform to the quick. But the examiner saith, they see weightier things in the Church, whereat they may 
Page. 35.  be grieved as other good men are. Now we come to his questions, which although 
Questions.  they he captious, and therefore by law they are not to be answered: yet to show our sincerity in that which we hold, we will make him an answer. To the first we say, Discipline, touching 
1  the substance, is fully described out of the word of God, in the book of discipline, & the treatise of ecclesiastical government, and in the most of the soundest writers of our time. The second is 
2  answered, partly by the former, & partly by this treatise. In steed of this we ask him what be the writings which have confuted by the scripture, all those foresaid godly & learned writings? To the third 
3  we answer, it is no sound divinity to exclude Christian Princes from their government in Church-matters. Concerning Excommunication he hath his answer before. To the two other clauses, let the Papists answer, for they are maliciously imputed unto us. And we demand of him, whether it be sound divinity, that when the Prince will eat flesh in Lent or do such like, she must have a Dispensation from an Archbishop? And that the writes of his Courts even in causes civil, and matters of instance should be in his own name, and not in the name of her most excellent Majesty? The fourth is answered in the Treatise of the Eldership: And we ask 
4  of him what pregnant proof he hath either from scripture or Father, that Ecclesiastical Government should be exercised in a whole Diocese, by a Chancellor or commissary being a mere layman? To the 5. and 6. both, we 
5. 6.  answer: That rebaptisation is condemned by the word of God, and that those he speaketh of be married folks: And we require him to prove by the word of God, that in case of the necessity which they pretend, a Woman may baptise: And to prove by the same that men may be forbidden to marry in Lent or such like times. The seventh 
7  is answered in that to the 5. and 6. And we demand of him how they can prove it lawful to admit a Popish priest, fallen from the Gospel and still unapt to teach? To the eight we answer, 
8  there is the like reason of the Supper and of Baptism: And we require him to prove by the word of God, that a Deacon may baptise? and when he hath proved that, let him prove why he may not minister the Supper also? To the ninth we answer, that to 
9  the Ministers, there may be diversity of rewards given, so long as none have to little, nor any too much. And we require him to prove by the Word of God, that a Minister of the Gospel may carry the pomp of men of estate. To the 
10  tenth we answer, as is set down in the Treatise, that a Minister should be apt to teach: We would have him prove that any other may preach, who is not apt to teach. To the Eleventh we answer 
11  affirmatively, and require him to prove by the Scriptures, that an Archbishop may put Preachers to silence, for not subscribing to that which is not required by the law. To the twelfth 
12  we answer: it is not lawful for one to be thrust out of his Ministry, for showing modestly in his sermons, the inconvenience of unleavened bread in the Lord's Supper: that all usury as we speak it, whither biting or nibbling is unlawful. And we require of him to prove by the word of God, that it is tolerable to suffer Drunkards, whoremongers, ignorant men of occupation in the Ministry, and for not subscribing (where Law doth not enforce it) or for the not using of some ceremony to turn out godly learned Ministers. And make a pitiful separation of the Pastor and the flock. The Lord give us to be of one mind, and wherein we agree, let us proceed by the rule of love.   
FINIS.