AN ANSWER TO WILLIAM ALABASTER his MOTIVES.  
By ROGER FENTON Preacher of Gray's Inn.  
AT LONDON Imprinted by FELIX KYNGSTON, for W. Aspley, dwelling in Paul's Churchyard, at the sign of the tigers head. 1599   

THE CONTENTS OF THE seven Motives.  

1. Of the stay of the mind in doctrine of faith.  
2. Of the last resolution of religion.  
3. Of the rule of interpretation of Scripture, and of necessity of works.  
4. Of the multitude of communicants in the catholic faith.  
5. Of alteration, and reformation of religion.  
6. Of the power promised to the Church for discerning of truth, and of the means of deciding controversies.  
7. Of marks to discern heretics by: and of innovation.    

TO THE RIGHT WORSHIPFUL HIS SINGULAR GOOD PATRONS, THE REAders of Gray's Inn.  
RIGHT Worshipful, I crave your patronage and pardon both at once. I have stolen from my daily duty unto you, unto whom I own both myself and all duty, certain waste hours which I have employed about this discourse. If my pains have been fruitfully bestowed, yet they must crave pardon, because they were bestowed without your leave; if idly, than I must crave pardon twice, once for them, and next for myself. Howsoever, I am sure my best desert must plead pardon, which I most humbly beg at your hands; submitting myself, and thaese stolen meditations to your mild censures. Which if I find favourable, I shall be encouraged with more alacrity to apply my studies in my ordinary duties, and with better content as well to amend what you shall find amiss in this, as also to prepare myself to some greater task. And so with my daily prayers to almighty God for the happy and flourishing estate of your Honourable society, I humbly take my leave. At my chamber in Gray's Inn this 24. of November. 1599  
Your daily bounden Orator,  
ROGER FENTON.   

The Author to William Alabaster, prisoner in the Tower, wisheth health of soul and body.  
ALbeit Aaron's body mystical, whereabout we contend, might justly occasion a much hotter conflict, than that dead body of Moses, for which Satan strove with Michael, thereof to make an idol: yet have I rather chosen (beloved Alabaster) to offend by over much mildness, in this general survey, and discovery of your grounds, than any wise in bitterness of spirit, underpretext of zeal, to gall and disgrace an adversary. Only to the end this slender task, imposed upon me, might find the better entertainment even at your hands: I have weighed your inducements with all indifferency, urged the force of them so fully as I am able to conceive, and examined them by the touch and trial of your own grounds.  
Wherhfore (since by this time I hope the seething of your fervency is well nigh over, you become more stayed then before, and able to contain yourself within some limits of moderation) my hearty wish and desire is, that you would upon this new occasion take a sober review of your own work, more advisedly consider the premises whereupon you build, and (as God shall move you) accordingly shape your resolution. Which thing although I have small hope my labour should be so happy as to effect in you: yet lest these your popular fallacies should insinuate themselves into the minds of the more unstable, I am the rather induced to publish this brief answer for the use of such tender judgements, as shall in that kind need the same. So committing to almighty God the happy success hereof, and submitting myself herein to the censure of the learned,  
I bid you farewell from my Chamber in Gray's Inn, November 24. 1599 R. F.   

THE FIRST MOTIVE.  


AS the moist and unstable bodies, because they are unbounded in themselves, never cease from motion, until they be stayed in some other body which hath stay in itself: so the understanding unquiet by nature, passeth through all forms of opinions, until he resolve his assent upon some principle that standeth only upon his own ground.   

ANSWER.  
THat principle which stayeth the understanding in human knowledge, containeth a truth firm in itself, manifest to the light of nature shining in us, known to every man of mean understanding, carrying every proof, and upholding each conclusion, which reason is able from thence by discourse to infer. So that the understanding passing through so many forms of opinions, by discoursing at random, is therefore unsettled, because he cannot reduce those fareftcht conclusions to the first principle, and examine all opinions by that truth which standeth upon it own ground.    


MOTIVE.  
THerefore when the question of truth in controversy of faith is turned too and fro, in the throng of so many particular quarrels, it is best to go aside, and single out the two grand Originals and foundations, from the which all other factions arise: that by taking the just estimate of the strength of either, our judgement may leave to the stronger part. All particular controversies in themselves stand upon their yea and nay, but unto us require proof: which proof is linked by reason, which reason is chiefly grounded upon scripture, which scripture is authorized not in the letter, but in the sense, because it is doubtful in the variety of apprehensions, some leading, others drawing, many writhing their text to their several factions: The question is at last removed from the text to the interpreter, from the scripture unto the men. So that a mind studious of truth is now come to his last care, to determine of the worth, merit, & authority of these that are the exposit our &.   

ANSWER.  
YOu pass from forms of opinions to controversies of faith, from an unquiet understanding by nature, to an unstable faith in religion: which inference is not greatly amiss, if rightly taken. For as these two kinds be diverse in nature, so be they alike in proportion. For the principles of religion differ from the principles of reason: so doth this of faith, from that of nature. Hence an unstable understanding is not fixed upon one and the same ground in both kinds. They be alike in proportion thus: as nature hath her principles written in the hearts of all men: so religion hath hers revealed from heaven, to all faithful men. Secondly, as the glimmering light of nature still shining in us enlighteneth her principles, and maketh men's minds fully assent unto them: So the spirit of God informeth all Christian minds with a supernatural light of faith, and full assurance of the first, principles of religion. Thirdly, as the principles of nature are presented to our understanding out of the book of nature, the volume of creatures and visible things of God, together with many mysteries in part unfolded by the wise Philosophers in their comments upon nature: so the first common principles of faith are evidently expressed in the book of God, besides many high mysteries in part revealed unto us by the learned and holy men of God from time to time. Fourthly, as the natural understanding the further it is removed from the first principles by discourse, and tract of consequence, the more unstable it is, & subject to error, being not able so steadily to look back from every conclusion to the first ground: so the minds of Christian men holding the same common grounds, by them unfolding difficulties, and from them raising conclusions, according to the variety of judgements and apprehensions, do shape so many forms of opinions, and controversies of religion. Thus far I hope we have gone hand, in hand without cross, or variance in any point at all. It remains them (since the understanding even of a christian man is weak and unstable in his discourse and apprehension) that we seek the means to establish and confirm the same, so far forth as may stay the conscience of one studious of truth in matters of religion. Your advise is that notwithstanding all truth in controversy of faith be grounded chiefly upon scripture: yet the sense of scripture being diversly taken by divers, & therefore to us uncertain, the question at last must be removed from the text to the interpreter, from the scripture to the men. God forbidden the question should ever be removed from the ground of truth: which truth is contained in the first principles: which principles be evidently expressed in scripture, not diversly taken, but agreed upon of all Churches: As that Christ is come in the flesh: Christ is the son of the living God: his second coming to judgement: the resurrection, and such like, the analogy of which truths, is an infallible rule for expounding more obscure places, and a sure ground to build upon. These principles being not doubtful in variety of apprehensions (like other places of greater difficulty) there is no show of reason why a christians man's mind should in any controversy be removed from them; no more than natural reason will in any case forsake her common grounds, notwithstanding any sect of Philosophers whatsoever, but still labour to try and examine all opinions by her first rules. Thus much I will presume upon as granted; if any exception be taken, I appeal to your own words. It is best to go aside and single out the two grand originals and foundations, from the which all the other factions arise, that by taking a just estimat of the strength of either, our judgement may lean to the stronger part. I demand then when yourself went aside to single out the two grand originals, by what rules did you take a just estimate of the strength of either? If religion be to you a matter of conscience, you must needs confess, that your rules of reason, or religion, or both did sway your mind, and make your judgement lean (as you think) to the stronger part. So that (even by your own evidence) that last remove of the question from the text to the interpreter, from the scripture to the men, if it carry any show of truth, it must be interpreted very tenderly. First, you mean not from that plain scripture, wherein the first principles be evidently authorized, but only from those obscure texts, whose sense is doubtful to us in such variety of apprehensions. Secondly, the remove is not made from the scripture altogether to the men: but so, as still we keep our sure footing upon the first grounds: in the strength and evidence whereof divine truth both in itself and to us is evermore established.  
Now further to proceed, because the Apostle commands 
Heb. 6. 1. 2.  us not always to stick in our first principles: we must needs confess that the understanding of private men unsteedie in discourse, and feeble in judging such high and weighty matters, is of itself, aswell in expounding scripture, as setting down conclusions, subject to manifold errors and heresies. And therefore besides those premised grounds from which we take our rise, we must be confirmed by such means as Christ hath beside provided for the members of his Church militant here upon earth. Which means are branched into the assistance of God's spirit within us: and the testimony of the Church and holy men of God without us. These special helps God hath provided for his Church, over and above human helps common to Christians with the sons of nature. The former of these, I mean the assistance of God's spirit, for enlightening our understanding, and enabling our judgements is purchased 1. by fervency of prayer, 2. religious 
Psal. 73. 16. Luke 24. 31. joh. 7. 17.  exercise, 3. holiness of life, and 4. studious endeavour. Yet notwithstanding because both reason, and religion joined with humility will easily persuade, that God's spirit is more fully resident in holy assemblies then private men's brains; that 
string mentem, & dabit intellectum. Origen.  spirit is to be suspected of singularity, which will not with all reverence embrace the testimony of the Church. So then a Christian man studious of truth doth rest his conscience upon these three witnesses: First, the evidence of our first principles expressly propounded in scripture, and written in the tables of our hearts by the holy Ghost: Secondly, the assistance of God's grace, and holy spirit promised to every faithful soul, for confirming his judgement so far forth, as may lead to happiness, and perform the duties of that place whereunto he is called: Thirdly, the testimony of the Church and holy men of God. And these three agree in one. But in your last remove of the question, From the text to the interpreter, from the scripture unto the men, passing over the two former, you have resolved yourself wholly upon the worth, merit, and authority of those which are the expositors. So that (according to your advise) having singled out the grand originals and foundations of our two religions, and taking (as near as I can) a just estimate of the strength of either, I find the odds three to one of our side. For, although these three witnesses be so linked together, as rightly taken they be never severed: yet, least singling them out one from another we should mistake any, we lay fast hold of all three, conferring, examining, and confirming to ourselves one by another. You contrariwise, lean yourself, and rest your conscience only upon the third, the testimony of the Church, as upon an infallible ground of all the rest. Which if it prove a broken staff by your mistaking of it, (either in taking the testimony of some portion of the visible Church for the whole catholic: or secondly an unsound part, for the sound: or thirdly, misconceaving the churches of former times) it will not only deceive you, but the shivers thereof wound your erroneous and naked conscience, which easily may befall such a one, as is of no longer time, or deeper study, than you and I are well known to be.    


MOTIVE.  
THe catholic part for the strength of their interpretation allege the judgement of the Church, the definitions of counsels, the consent of fathers, the harmony of Churches, the practice of all ages, and the rule of Apostolical tradition, left by succession as the light through the heavens. The Protestants bring forth the several founders of their sects, Luther, Caluin, Melancthon, and others of that strain, whose exposition they cleave unto. Lay this in the balance and weigh together the spouse of Christ, with Luther, Caluin, Melancthon; ecumenical counsels with private opinions; the reverend and learned fathers with Arius, Aetius, Vigilantius, men always in their time burned for heretics; the harmony of Churches with the jarring of conventicles, of them that are in as great brawl with themselves as with the catholics. The uniform practice of 1500. years, with the often change of others. The tradition of the Apostles with the dregs of heretics. Now let any man (though overbalanced by affection) consider with himself whether of these should be believed in expounding the scriptures, and consequently in the truth of the controversies which relieth upon the sense.   

ANSWER.  
THis is right the wise man of Athens, who thought all the ships his own which came to haven. Church, counsels, Fathers, Apostolical traditions, all yours. And we poor souls turned over to a few single spirits, Luther, Caluin, Melancthon, etc. If I might be so bold with you as Sir Thomas More was in like case with a protestant, it were time to put you in mind of one Caius, who encountering with a scholar would needs have his first demand granted; to wit, whatsoever had two ears was a foolish beast: For else he could not so gallantly have come upon him, as otherways he had meant. Your demand is alike reasonable. For you assume no more as granted but the judgement of the Church: the definition of councils: the consent of Fathers: the harmony of Churches: the practice of all ages: the rule of Apostolical tradition. Which if we give you, and leave ourselves a few particular men's expositions, indeed I confess you may conclude at your pleasure. But it is well known we do no further rely upon those learned men's assertions, than they be authorized by the forenamed witnesses. Which testimonies so confidently alleged for your part I hope you are not ignorant how that all along in our apologies, defences, and answers, they be brought against you by our defenders: especially those witnesses of more ancient times, unto whom we are content to appeal as most indifferent judges, and more sincere than any of later times, being nearer to Christ, and further from these factions. To put you out of doubt I will set down our own words. Quam ea die juellus 
D. Whit. against Camp. rat. 5.  vocem verissimam ac constantissimam emisit, quando ad sexcentorum annorum antiquitatem provocanit, vobisque obtulit, ut si vel unicam ex aliquo patre aut consilio claram & dilucidam sententiam afferretis, non recusaret quin vobis palmam concederet: ea est nostrûm omnium professio, idem omnes pollicemur, fidem non fallemus.     

THE SECOND MOTIVE.  


THe mysteries of religion do so far exceed the narrow straits of our understanding, that because they cannot be comprehended by reason, God hath therefore appointed faith to entertain them, which faith is built upon divine and unfallible authority, the mind yielding obedience in stead of discourse, & receiving indifferently the truth of doctrine, upon the credit and affiance of the teacher. Therefore that religion which doth not stay the assent of the scholar, and hath not irrefragable authority in all matters of faith, hath neither merit of belief in itself, nor others. But such is the discipline of the protestants, that they afford their scholars no other but human and mutable authority, whereby to believe the number and dignity of the scriptures, with the sense and interpretation of them, in which consisteth the sum of all religion.   

ANSWER.  
THe mysteries of religion do far exceed the narrow straits of our understanding: for without controversy great are those mysteries, to wit, God is manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of Angels, believed on in the world, and received up into glory. Amongst which the scholars assent to those mysteries is accounted one (believed on in the world) which you have well expressed, appointing faith, not reason to entertain them: The mind yielding obedience in steed of discourse, & receiving indifferently the truth of doctrine upon the credit and affiance of the teacher. This teacher you have determined to be the inflexible testimony of the catholic Church, of whom we received the forenamed principles of religion, yea the scriptures themselves. And surely that mind which would not yield obedience to the testimony of this general voice, were (in all sound judgements) most unreasonable. For doth not reason herself tell us, That which most men and wisest agree upon is most true? doth she not add further, Those men be wisest next God 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plato in Timaeo.  that are most dear unto him? Then that religion which is professed and taught, by the most holy and catholic Church which is venerable for antiquity: certain for succession: comely for order: admirable for unity: approved by experience: allowed by providence: confirmed by miracles: rooted in so many kingdoms: never doubted of but by heretics, is, in the very eye of reason, to be embraced. How think you? Is not this reason's discourse? And a sound discourse? You must not deny it, for it is your own. 
Motive 5.  If reason then build upon Church authority, how place you faith in reason's room? If this be reasons discourse, what is that yielding obedience in stead of discourse? Where is that great mystery of godliness (believed on in the world) which captivates the understanding to the obedience of faith? Let me help you out with a school distinction, that we may clear the way before us. The scholars assent to the Church testimony is called faith, I confess, but such a faith as the school termeth Acquisita fides: faith gotten by discourse, & testimony of 
Thom 2. 2●. q. 2. ar. 4. Scotus in 3. sent. dist. 23. Caietan in locum Aquin. Durand in 3. sent dist. 22  the holy men of God: a faith carried along by reason, grounding upon sufficient witness, and convincing the understanding by evidence of demonstration: a faith incident not to wicked men only, but the devils themselves. But the school divines have taught a more divine faith, which they call Infusa fides, immediately inspired by the holy Ghost from heaven: informing the mind, & inclining the will to entertain the principles of christianity with all perfect obedience in stead of discourse. For the begetting of which faith in the hearts of men, that former testimony of the Church, and discourse of argument doth wonderfully dispose and prepare the mind; but that which gives the stroke and addeth life unto it, is the celestial motion of God's spirit, which Saint john calls the witness 
1. joh. 5. 10. Qui credit infillum testimonium habet in se. Thom. 2. 2ae. q 2 art. 4. in 3. sentent. dist 22. de gra. & libero 〈◊〉 ●6. ca 2. 〈◊〉. 6. can. 〈◊〉.  within us, opposing it to the Church testimony without us. This is that true faith which Aquin affirms never to be found in devils: which Scotus averes never to be void of christian charity: which Bellarmin proves, and Trent defines never to be obtained without divine revelation and inspiration of God's spirit, upon which it is built, as upon divine and unfallible authority, the mind yielding obedience in steed of discourse, and receiving indifferently the truth of doctrine upon the credit and affiance of this teacher. Hereupon doth our religion stay the assent of the scholar, and hath irrefragable authority in the principles of faith, wherein consisteth the sum of all religion. These first principles of religion assented unto by this infused faith (as the principles of reason by the light of nature) have taken a deeper impression in the minds of the faithful, than the voice of the Church, or an Angel from heaven could have made. For if we (saith Paul) the Apostles of Christ, nay if an Angel from heaven, confirmed in the state of happiness, should preach any other Gospel, that is, lay any other principles of religion then be all ready laid, let him be accursed. Then somewhat there is of more certainty to us, than Peter or Paul, or any Angel. Sinos, aut Angelus. Thus 
Gal. 1. 8.  far therefore you must of necessity yield unto us (except you withstand the stream of your own Doctors) that albeit the voice of the Church be a witness of this truth without exception, yet above and beside this, the mind of a believing Christian is strooken with a lightning from Heaven: inspired with divine revelation: informed with that infused faith which far surpasseth that former faith, gotten by discourse and testimony of the Church without us. This is the last resolution of our religion into a principle that stands upon his own ground, to wit, into an undoubted assent of the mind informed by true faith, fixed by the holy Ghost, upon the Axioms of Christian religion. All that I would say to this point is by your Doctor Stapleton well concluded in one period. Fideles enim omnes per vocem ecclesiae inducuntur ad fidem; 
Princ. doct. l. 8. cap. 22.  inducti autem, & lumine inspirationis divinae illustrati non iam amplius propter Loquelam ecclesiae, sed propter Lumen illud divinum credunt.  
But for more remote conclusions drawn from principles by discourse and tract of consequence, (because therein to rely upon special revelation were dangerous) we most willingly embrace the voice of the Church (in manner as we have said to your first motive) always acknowledging God's spirit to be more fully resident in holy assemblies, then private brains: promising to lead the Church into all truth: to be resident where two or three are gathered together in his name: which spirit for his part will never be wanting, if the Church for her part be not defective. But whether these promises made be absolute, or with condition, that is, suppose the Church will not be led, whether the spirit will perforce drive her into all truth? Suppose her chieftains assemble themselves with prejudicate and sinister affections, not with that sincerity which is required, whether the spirit will therein assist them? Or whether these suppositions be possible, that God in regard of our sins will suffer such corruptions to creep into Synods, as may lead them into error, in some ages more, in some less, though evermore preserving life in the principles of religion, is the point in question. Upon which issue, we deny such a power of not erring to the Church militant, as should enforce the mind to give assent to counsel decrees in the same kind and degree of faith, as to the articles of belief: which remains more fully to be showed out of your own grounds.    


MOTIVE.  
FOr they affirm that the authority of the Church, and ministery of whom their followers receive the sacred scriptures, and their expositors be human, and such as may go aside into error, and sometimes do. So that of necessity, whosoever standeth in the integrity of their opinion, either have no faith at all, or else only human and errant. For they that have a possible impotency of erring in one point of faith, what assurance can they make of distinction that they do not err in all?   

ANSWER.  
WE affirm the authority of the Church and ministery to be human in the same sense as Saint john calls it the testimony of men: If we receive the testimony of men, 
1. john. 5  the testimony of God is greater. Which testimony of men, was by all consent the testimony of the Apostles themselves, who jointly were witnesses of the resurrection of the Lord of life. Then if the testimony of the Apostles be human, I hope (in the like sense) we may call the authority of the Church human.  
I come at the last to that grand motive, whereupon all the rest depends, the omnipotence of not erring. Wherein that I may quickly touch the point, I spare to prove what is granted: for we go along certain steps together without jarring. 
Bel. de consil. author. lib. 2. ca 11. ca 12. Ibid. Bel. & Sia. princ. doc. lib. 8. ca 15. Bel. ibid. Bel. ibid.  First it is confessed, that any counsel particular or general may err, if it be not confirmed by the Pope. Secondly, that Pope and counsel may err in any by matter, beside the definitive sentence, principally intended. Thirdly, that they may errein application of scriptures, in illustrations, in sequel of argument drawn from scripture to infer that definitive sentence. Fourthly, the definitive sentence itself may be erroneous, if it be defined only as a probability, not as a point of faith. Fiftly, though it be concluded as a matter of faith, yet there may be error in the propriety of speech, by superfluity or want of terms: by displacing of words, or such like. Only the very bare main sense of the conclusion itself is cock sure from error. Into this narrow strait they confess themselves to have been already pursued: the consideration of which point me thinks should cause an indifferent mind to pause a little, and think it strange at the least, that the evident truth of the Church testimony, whereupon all catholic faith must depend: that the first principle standing upon his own ground, into which all religion is to be resolved, as into a pure element, should be put to so many shifts, and hunted into such a narrow room.  
But further to urge you with your own, I demand from whence a counsels definitive sentence doth receive her infallibility? Either it must be immediately from the spirit of God: or else by means of consequence, from the text of scripture, or article whereupon it groundeth. The first is by yourselves denied, for it is the first and special difference Bellarmine putteth twixt counsels, Canons, and canonical scripture: that the word of God is authorized by immediate 
Bel. de cons. auct. lib. 2. ca 12. Consilia ex co per ratiocinationem deducunt conclusiones.  revelation from the spirit: but counsels derive their conclusions by discourse from the word. Your champion answered me to this point: that indeed God would have his Church to use those means of discourse and testimony: yet at the upshot the spirit doth fortify the conclusion, and lets the rest go. So I hope Paul did apply his books and parchments, used the means of study and discourse: though that which he resolved upon to put in writing was by the immediate motion of the spirit. Therefore still this makes no difference at all. Then belike (if Bellarmine stand) it is the discourse, & sequel of argument, which the conclusion must rely upon for her certainty: but that also proves a broken staff, even in your own judgements. Bellarmine saith it is erroneous, 
De consil. autho. lib, 2. cap. 12. lib. 8. cap. 15.  and Stapleton resolves upon it, that from erroneous arguments counsels do infer undoubted positions: from weak and false premises infallible conclusions. Omnipotent power that makes the conclusion stronger than the premises, whereupon it is grounded. But I will spare this sore, because Doctor Stapleton saith it is a 
a Quo peccati genere peccant illi qui &c. prin. lib. 8. ca 15. infine.  sin to touch it. Thus it is (quoth he) but we must not 
b Bonus ecclesiae filius docentem ecclesiam securus, & tutus audiet: nec solicit laborans, an idonea media ad doctrinam suam tradendam ecclesia adhibuerit, nec curiose inquirens an in medijs ipsis debitam diligentiam impenderit.  inquire the manner how it is, that were curiosity. Happily it is a mystery: and it were safe for your Church it were not looked into. The consequence of your argument (if any impotency of erring in one, then in all) is too too weak, there is a mean betwixt all, and none at all: you run altogether upon extremities; all errors be not at once disclosed; nor all truths alike necessary to be known. What say you to your Doctor Stapleton, who limits the Church with a condition of determining such points only, as be necessary to be believed, or belong to the very substance of faith; 
c Quando de huiusmodi inquam questionibus, vel consulitur, vel obiter disputat ecclesia, aberrare aliquando poterit, velassereado, vel etiam concludendo. prin. l. 8. ca 15. initio.  else she may err both in discourse and definitive sentence, a condition which would be looked unto, if not quite put out of his works, for it shaketh many a decree. Nay what say you to Bellarmine, who acknowledgeth there be some true catholics, which hold that the Pope in a general counsel may err, when he giveth not all diligence. Which general condition if it be truly observed, in assembling the synod without partiality: in selecting points of moment and necessity: in consulting with all simplicity, with such like (included under all diligence) doubtless Gods spirit for his part will never be wanting. See now, if you would be reasonable we might happily shake hands in this point: but you presently run back to an absolute omnipotency of not erring in any one point, and so shall we never meet. I advise you though, do not take it for an article of your creed, but remember Bellarmine his rule. 
d Ea solum de causa non assirraamus hanc propositionem side catholica esse tenendam, quod authores qui contrarium sentiunt nondum videamus ab ecclesia damnatos pro Hereticis. de. cons. auth. lib. 2. ca 5.  That is not to be held as a point of faith, against which some catholics do hold, being reputed catholics of the Church, and not condemned for heretics: But some catholics hold the Church may err, 
e ca 2.  quando non adhibet omnem diligentiam, therefore resolve not all your faith upon this point: but alas we have your resolution.    


MOTIVE.  
Contrary the Catholics avouching the inflexible truth of the Church as the voice of Christ, and direction of the spirit, do stay the minds of the faithful from doubt and wavering. But the other making an head from the body of the Church are rightly punished, both with belief in errors, and unbelief in truth.   

ANSWER.  
SEe now your conclusion, which buildeth not upon that point alone, we have already sifted, but assumeth with all a far more slippery ground; that that Church you have lately plunged yourself into, is the only Church we have talked of all this while: the only true universal visible Church upon the earth. Which two uncertainties well examined and laid together, will (I fear me) make but a sandy foundation to build upon, and an unstable principle to stand upon it own ground, and uphold all religion. Yet this is your only sanctuary, wherein you secure your souls of all sound belief: which standeth upon these two main pillars, first that the Catholic Church cannot err (which is not so dangerous, if rightly conceived, as hath been said) Secondly, that this Romish Church (whereof you profess yourself a member) is that Catholic Church. Which second branch must be yet further resolved into other uncertainties (presupposed by you as undoubted truths, whereupon the frame of your religion doth rest itself) to wit, first, that this present Romish Church doth not degenerate from the ancient Catholic: but sound and sincerely professeth that same faith which was established in the primitive by the Apostles: continued in the ancient Roman Church in the time of the Fathers for the space of 600 years. Secondly, this being proved and made manifest, you must add further, that this Church of Rome is not so Catholic, as was the Church of Corinth, Galatia, etc. that is, not as a member communicating in the faith of the whole Catholic, but that itself is the whole entire Catholic Church: thereby excluding all other Churches in Christendom as heretical, which do not acknowledge themselves subject to the Bishop of that Sea. Which thing you must defend not against protestants only, who prove you rather to be an Italian faction, than the Catholic Church (which john Hart doth ingenuously acknowledge to be more probable than he was aware of:) but even against your own Doctors and Cardinals must you arm yourselves in this point, who complain there is nothing decreed in counsels, but what the Italian Nation liketh of, as Ludovicus Cardinal of Arle complained at the Council of Basil: and Claudius Espencaeus a Doctor of your own in Paris witnesseth for 
Espencaeus in comment. in Titum. ca 1.  Trent, Haec est illa Helena qua tridenti nuper obtinuit, etc. speaking of the Italian Nation. Now if any of these points fail you (which me thinks be very tickle) then is not the voice of your Church evermore the inflexible truth of Christ, and direction of his spirit, which you presume to be the first ground of Christian Religion, that doth stay the minds of the faithful from doubt, and wavering in all the rest.     

THE THIRD MOTIVE.  


THe infinite ways of errors draw themselves in their original into two heads, opinion and affection: which (as two cankers) breed the one in the understanding, the other in the will: for our judgement is easiest deceived, by those things we esteem truest, and our inclination by what we love best. There is nothing of more manifest presumption then the truth of the Scriptures, nor fuller of desire than security of happiness: therefore these two being left unlimited, the one of canonical exposition, the other with necessity of means, are a direct method of indirect consequence. Such is the practice of the later religion: they teach that nothing is to be credited, but what is warranted in holy books, and give not infallible rules of interpretation, but such as at last must be overruled by private opinion, for conference of places, propriety of phrase, acceptations of words, can make no other conclusion, than every one's conceit will afford. So that of an infallible proposition, and arbitrary assumption, must needs ensue a dangerous conclusion, though not ever in the matter which is concluded, yet always in the manner of concluding.   

ANSWER.  
TO let slip your philosophical introduction (sparing in this short discourse to catch at by matters) you have pitched your motive upon the two main parts of a christian soul: The understanding of divine truth: and the desire of true happiness: assuming to yourselves, and denying wholly to us, both sound judgement for the trial of the one, and necessary means for the enjoying of the other. Our judgement is impeached for resting itself wholly upon the written word, being deprived also of the infallible interpretation of the same. For the first point, we do indeed maintain the written word, as the most perfect work of God, to be all sufficient for that end and purpose, to which it is referred, and for which it was written: denying all other doctrine to be in power and certainty equivalent with the same. For if we should account those reports, which we have received by tradition from our forefathers, to be of equal credit with the canon of Scripture: I cannot easily conceive how we should have due and thankful regard of that inestimable benefit of committing divine truth to writing, which almighty God did himself first ordain, and by divine providence continually hath preserved in his Church, ever since the first age of the world, that the days of man were shortened, and his memory waxed frail. For miserable (no doubt by this time) had the state of the Church been, if the means of our salvation, published by Christ and his Apostles, had been delivered to us only by way of tradition from so many reporters. We may in some sort guess at the dangers, by those remnants of divine story, which the heathen receiving by tradition have delivered to us in their writings: but so broken and intermingled with cloudy fancies, and fabulous inventions, as they do no more resemble the truth, than the rainbow doth the sun. Which though it be the image of the sun, yet are the beams thereof so broken by reflection and refraction in some watery cloud, that it doth alike resemble the sun, as those ancient poetical fables do express the true scripture story, from whence they borrowed their first light. Therefore invaluable is the benefit of the written word above relations. The end of the writing whereof was the perfecting of the two premised parts of a Christian man's soul: to wit, the understanding with divine truth, and the desire with life, both jointly set down by Saint john. 10. 31. These things are written, that ye might believe that jesus is Christ, the Son of God. And secondly that in believing ye might have life through his name.  
For the effecting whereof albeit the scripture be all-sufficient in itself, yet lest by our ignorance we should pervert the more obscure places to our own destruction, we do with all diligence embrace those means which God hath provided for the interpretation thereof: not only the rules of reason, and human arts sanctified by God's grace, in his faithful servants, but adding thereto also the record of antiquity: consent of fathers: testimony of learned men: conferring places, weighing circumstances, examining translations, with such like: not singling any one means from the rest (as you fond imagine) but joining them together, do always acknowledge most means to make the strongest confirmation.  
Amongst these manifold means it liketh you to cull out the conference of places, as seeming most of all to be overruled by private opinion. Which rule of interpretation we are so far from being ashamed of, as in earnest I marvel you will take any exception unto it, since Saint Austin (a witness by your confession without all exception) hath bestowed such cost upon it, preferring it before all other rules whatsoever. In his book de Doct. Christia. laying this ground undoubtedly, 
August. de Doct. Christiana. lib. 2. Cap. 9  that all things concerning belief and life are plainly written in the word, his first rule is, that those things be chief noted, which are set down plainly, both precepts of life, and rules offaith. Secondly, that obscure and dark sentences be enlightened and opened by the plain and manifest. Thirdly, that doubtful texts be determined by the clear and certain. All this in one chapter. After, if we cannot find the true meaning, yet let such a sense be given, as agreeth 
Lib. 3. Cap. 27.  with the right faith, approved by some other place of scripture. If that cannot be discussed by sure testimony of 
Cap. 28.  Scripture, it might be proved by reason, but the safer way far, is to walk by Scripture. In that whole work made for this purpose we find no mention of your last Remove from the text to the interpreter, from the Scripture to the men. But still 
Motive 1.  hath he recourse to the scripture, making it the only Centre whereupon we must stay ourselves in all discourse and interpretation. His general conclusion is, that all places of scripture be expounded by the scriptures, which are canonical, as being the rule of godliness, and faith. Yea from the testimony of the greatest number of ancient fathers (alleged by Saint Hierome) he still makes his appeal unto Scripture. 
Hier. Epist. 19 inter. Aug.  Hitherto have I said nothing but Saint Austin, whom you acknowledge to assure you not of his own only, but of the common and constant faith, and confession of ancient fathers, and Apostolic Church. Yet this was Saint Austin his 
Confess. Aug. in praefat. ad Lect.  rule of interpretation, his golden rule, whereupon he so much relied, practised at this day in our Church: and make you this a motive to separate yourself from our Church? To put you out of doubt that this rule shall not at last resolve into private opinion: after all diligence hath been given in this kind, we confirm the same by consent of our faithful and learned brethren, and (if need be) by the assembly of the Bishops and clergy of our Church: unto which our greatest clerks do most willingly submit their expositions. Their words be, The sense will I prove by scripture according 
D. Reinold against Hart.  to the rule of faith: the proof of the sense I submit to the private and public judgement of the Church. Notwithstanding in these quarrelsome days (since each part by likelihood will draw scriptures to their several assertions) it is a rule most indifferent (even in your own judgements) that for points of controversy, neither your Church nor ours be judge: but that of 
Campian rat. 2.  old, nearer to Christ, and further from these factions, which you know to be our own challenge and defence, aswell as yours. So that if you would lay all these together (being all held and professed by our Church) you should find our expositions to be neither uncertain, nor private. Upon this misconceit you conclude us to be in a miserable case, for that of an infallible proposition, and arbitrary assumption, must needs follow a dangerous conclusion. It is true indeed: but this holdeth only against protestants, and private spirits. But wots you not, that a counsel, and the Pope of arbitrary premises can infer infallible conclusions? Cuius Doctrina in medijs discursiva, 
Stapl. princ. doct. l. 10. ca 11.  in conclusione prophetica, sine preiudicio fidei errare in argumentis potest salva conclusione. See now, yet are you so peremptory (must needesensue, always follow) that whilst you lash out these rules of reason, you entangle yourself in high treason against his holiness. But what mean I still to rub this gall? Sic tendimus in vetitum. Had not your Doctor forbidden it, I had not so harped upon it.    


MOTIVE.  
IN like manner they promise security of salvation, without respect of repentance and works, which are inevitable consequences, if all be true that they teach. So that he which hath faith, needeth no more to care for good works, than they that have drunken a sound purgation, for going to the stool.   

ANSWER.  
IF you respect repentance & good works, I wonder you regard christian charity no more, but so apparently to slander 
Confes. August. art. 20. Caluin Insti. l. 3. cap. 16. Cemnitius exa. Cons. Trid. ses. 6. Luther lib de visit. saxoni. Brent. catechiss.  us, against the general voice of our writers, who protest themselves herein greatly injuried, and urge as great necessity of good works, as you do, or can desire, secluding them only from the act of justification, not from the means of security: every where teaching, that the keeping of a good conscience in true faith doth work in us that certainty of hope for salvation, which is the rest & only peace of conscience in this life. Notwithstanding when we have done what we can in God's service, since we are unprofitable, and our works unperfect, it is not any way safe to trust in ourselves, 
Bellarm. de justificat. l. 5. ca 7. propos. 3.  or rely upon them, but only in God's mercies, and Christ's merits: in which point Bellarmine himself doth most ingenuously join with us. Tutissimum tamen est propter incertitudinem propriae justitiae, & periculum inanis gloriae, totam fiduciam non in opeirbus nostris, sed sola dei misericordia & benignitate reponere. This is all I can find in our writers that gives any shadow of occasion to this uncharitable slander: which in the judgement of a clear mind will easily vanish as a mist before the sun. Your simile I confess is too strong, and may easily overcome me, and modesty bids me spare to encounter it.    


MOTIVE.  
THese are the two fallacies whereupon Luther built his rebellion, and wherein all the heresies of our time conspire, though otherwise at difference with themselves: for there can be no fit baits to beguile simple men, than opinion; and sensual men, than ease: because every one lieth open to decay in his own vices.   

ANSWER.  
THus are you taken in the snare which you laid for others. For the power of God in our ministry being to encounter with those two ugly monsters of nature, ignorance and sensuality, it is the end of our whole profession, both to make the simple wise to salvation, in such points as be meet for their conceits, and expedient for their several callings: as also to convert the sensual unto newness and holiness of life. Thus we profess and thus we teach, neither feeding the one kind with opinions, nor promising ease unto the other. Therefore if you either perceiving some looseness of life in the laity, do ascribe that to our doctrine: or observing the due execution of this ministery to be wanting in some of the clergy, shall therefore condemn the whole, do ye not plainly see the two grand fallacies, wherein you beguile yourself, and whereupon you have built this Apostasy?     

THE FOURTH MOTIVE.  


AMongst many loadstones, that which hath the pre-eminence of virtue in proportionable distance, winneth the Iron from all the rest: So Christ being lifted up in the abasing of his passion, promised by his attractive virtue to draw unto his service all men from all religions. For what rebellion of nature cannot he pacify unto the unity of Faith, when he pleaseth to come within compass, that hath united human nature into God's hypostatical union? Therefore to gather up the effect as a thread to lead to the cause, the greatest multitude in consent of communion, among the diverse parcels and rents of those that bear the livery of Christ his name, is a sufficient demonstration of the true and natural loadstone, which must of necessity draw more unto it then the rest, because it effecteth by his own virtue, when all the rest work only by the touch thereof.   

ANSWER.  
THat I may the better find you in this discourse, I will express your meaning more distinctly, which you carry in a cloud of generalities the easier to deceive. For when I inquire what kind of believers they be, whose number you endeavour so far to enlarge, and extend beyond others: me thinks the resemblance of the loadstone, and that attractive virtue of Christ his passion out of the 12. of john, do import not so much an outward calling to the profession of the catholic faith (which makes a visible Church) as an inward and effectual drawing to the power thereof, proper only to the lively members, who make a mystical and invisible body, not discernible in the eye of man; yet so it falleth out that this number of elect, and sanctified persons is not by you intended. For many are called into the visible Church, but few chosen into the number of the Saints: many cleansed in the fount from original leprosy, scarce the tithe showing 
Stapl. princ. lib. 2. cap. 9  due thankfulness in the residue of their lives. Whereupon (that I may take you right) I understand you mean a visible company of catholics, that is professors of the Apostolic faith. And then must you shake hands with Christ his attractive virtue (resembled by your loadstone) which is taken in the former kind, to signify not so much the outward calling of men into the visible Church, as an inward and forcible drawing of them into the fellowship of the sons of God. And so hath Christ, and doth still by his death and passion draw unto him men of all conditions from all the quarters of the world. Further if you take that visible company of professors at the largest, for all those that bear the livery of Christ his name, under which livery (saith Barnard) many do service unto Antichrist, then do you make both the Church of Rome and ours to be members of one visible Church: all professing one Lord, that is, Christ giving the name to all christians. Secondly one baptism, without rebaptisation of either hand. Thirdly, one faith, as it is summarily premised in the 
Concil. Trident. sess. 3.  counsel of Trent, and professed daily in our Church. Thus far be we knit together by a triple band of unity, which is not easily broken. And so far is your note of multitude common to both, and therefore not to the purpose of this motive. It remains then in the third place, that the middle way be taken twixt these two: understanding the company of sound believers, and orthodoxal professors of Christ's truth: for in these three several senses is the Church taken by divers. The first, that is the company of Saints is too narrow for your purpose: the second containing all professors is too large, and for the third, that is, the company only of sound and orthodoxal professors, if you prove that that is, and evermore hath been pre-eminent for multitude even in persecution, and inundations of heresies, I shall much marvel.    


MOTIVE.  
THis populous inheritance of such as profess the communion of his doctrine, was given him as a royalty in the 2. Psalm. And after his resurrection he sent his Apostles to take possession of the dowry of his Church, from Jerusalem unto the ends of the world, and the prophets who from their high tower of speculation might overlook more than the compass of 2000 years, and therefore took the draft of Christ his kingdom, could perceive no sign more glorious and visible, than a multitude reaching from the East to the West, and spreading over the earth. And yet for the straits of the throng putting up supplication to the Church, to send some colons out to enlarge their habitation. Angustus est mihi locus, fac spatium mihi ut habitem. And because by divine dispensation there were some sedition & factions to spring in his kingdom, that it might not breed admiration in the new subjects by the novelty or distraction of doubt, if the new part by number be mistaken; therefore Christ and his Apostles have both foretold there should be heretics, and branded them always by the note of paucity to be distinguished from the general multitude. For they shall come under the style of small and thin numbers, and privileged places. There is Christ among the calvinists in Geneva. There is Christ among the Lutherans in Germany. In the desert for a thousand years since Phocas. In some secret of concealed doctrine since the Apostles time. But believe them not, for not all, or the most part shall be apostate, but some; not many, but such as in compare of the whole multitude shall be as errant planets in respect of the fixed stars. Therefore this argument from the multitude of communicants in the same faith, promised by God, foreseen by the Prophets, confirmed by the Apostles, was esteemed of so sufficient proof by the primitive commanders of Christ his Church, that they used it always against the heretics: and oftentimes when they were to encounter, they would brandish this sword as deadly and unavoidable, to amaze, and yet not strike with it. Poteram omnes propositionum tuarum riwlos uno ecclesiae sole siccare. For the experiment whereof, if we turn over the succession of histories age by age, we shall find that when any heresy was at the highest flood, it was not comparable to the ebb of catholics, no not in the torrent and inundation of the Arrians by Athanasius testimony. Therefore we may presume the event of that prophesy, which hath so equally proceeded hitherto, and use it for a weapon against the heretics of our time which hath been so often died in the blood of their ancestors, and follow our fathers herein, which so happily followed others. Deo gratias.   

ANSWER  
ALl these grounds (except Athanasius his testimony) I find translated out of D. Stapleton: only caucus-like that 
Stapl. D. princ. 〈◊〉. lib. 2. Cap. 4.  you might not be traced, you have somewhat inverted the order: and good cause why: for the same author whence you borrow hath himself dissolved all the force of this motive, by adding a caution in the fifth chapter, how those forealleadged places are to be understood. That Popular inheritance promised to the son in the 2. Psalm, discovered by Daniel to 
Cap. 2. Cap. 49.  replenish the earth: surveyed by Esay from the East to the West: possessed by the Apostles from Jerusalem to the ends of the world, is not so to be taken (saith Stapleton) as if the Church should at once in any one age enjoy those large dominions, no not in the most flourishing age, but only in succession of times: yet your argument is so pitched upon those proofs, as if the number of sound believers at one and the same time, even at the lowest ebb of catholics did far exceed all others. An inference without the compass of those scriptures (even in the judgement of your own Doctor) albeit himself after do wrest them unto the same purpose. We do indeed with all due thankfulness acknowledge according to those prophecies, the Catholic faith of Christ to be preached and believed in several ages, in all the nations of the world truly and sincerely: not at once (like the deluge) covering the face of the earth, but as the water floods in course, winning ground in one place and losing it in another, dried up at Jerusalem and Samaria, before it have watered the ends of the earth: though in some ages full bank, in some at a lower ebb, specially when it is pestered with heresies and schisms, prophesied to come in the latter days: Insomuch that at the last dissolution, the Son of God maketh doubt if he shall find faith upon earth. And if a true Catholic faith shall so fail, as scarce to be found, 
Luke. 18.  then marvel not if your glorious note of the multitude of communicants in the same faith fail you. A glorious note I confess it is in the glory of the Church, when the sun is in his full strength: and well might the fathers in due time and place, brandish this sword against upstart heretics, with Poteram 
Vincent. Lirin. cap. 39  omnes etc. but not so well strike with it, or stand upon it, as an infallible demonstration: since they well witted that in the eclipse of the Church, when heresies get a head, & schisms distract it: when the devil waxeth wood, and the world groweth old, this note of multitude with all must needs fail. Your experiment for the torrent & inundation of the Arrians is too too weak: you strive against a stream of auneients, Where be 
Initio Orationis. In 〈…〉.  they (saith Gregory Nazianzene in his Oration against Arrians) who define the Church by a multitude, and contemn a small flock? Doth not Hierome witness the whole world to have turned Arrian? what say you to Saint Hillary, who persuaded men not to regard the outward face of the Church, either Bishops or Priests 
Lib. de Synod. adversus Arrianos. ibid. ca 16.  through the world? It was a rare thing (saith he) to find a Catholic amongst priest or people. Did not the Emperor in Theodoret scorn the Catholics for their paucity, four or five to a world of Arrians? Nay your own Doctor in this yields to Luther, that there were but a few Bishops to the Arrians, and those few exiles.  
Ecce in deserto, ecce in penetralibus, had been as glorious a play 
Stapel. prin. doct lib. 2. ca 13. Cap. 6.  for Arrians against Catholics, as now against Protestants, & to the meaning of the text both alike. Vincentius Lirin. a man of great note amongst you, for this one example of the Arrians doth abandon that note of universality. And think you to carry it with your bare avouching Athanasius his testimony, neither citing his words, nor quoting the place, against so strong a tide? This is too too sleight.     

THE FIFTH MOTIVE.  


THis new stamp of religion which Luther and his ministers boast of to be reform according to the ancient coin, cannot avoid the desert of counterfeit. Because so general a reformation, and restitution of the primitive Church, neither can be, neither was to be expected. For although the worship of adulterous religion have suffered many changes, either by the admiration of some man of extraordinary account, or the intimation of Oracles, or the ambition of superstitious, or invasion of neighbours, or change of government, the state always fashioning religion, the fittest consequence of policy: yet in the true religion instituted by God himself, the divine ordinance hath made only two memorable varieties: not by condemning the former, but by preferring the latter; not in difference of substance, but perfection: not by retraction as in change of their counsel, but adding of timely access. The first was from the law of nature, to the subjection of the law written. The second from the severity of the law, unto the obedience of the Gospel (Christ being the sum of all, but with difference.) For in the state of nature he was discerned a far of as a body. In the law he was distinguished nearer as a man: In the Gospel he is seen face to face: Both these changes were restitutions of the former, but with some perfection. For Moses restored the decalogue, sacrifice, worship of one God, circumcision, tenths, sabbaths, and such like, which were in the state of nature, but arbitrary for harmony. In the Gospel, Christ the interpretation of the law which was corrupted, and the three great parts of religion, iustificaon by faith, which was exemplified in Abraham, the sacrifice of himself, which was figured in Isaac, and in the Pasca, the mystery of baptism which was instituted in the deluge and red sea, and the Eucharist which was acted by Melchisedech.  
For like as when Thamar the daughter in law of juda brought forth her twins, Zaram and Phares, Zaram first put forth his hand, and the midwife tied a red thread about it, and he pulled it in again, and his brother Phares was borne afore him: So the Sacraments of the Gospel which are bound about with the red thread of Christ his passion, did first show their hand in Abraham, and Melchisedech, but the Sacraments of the jews were borne before them. So that these two be not changes but restitutions, and these are two earthquakes registered in the scripture, prophesied of before, expected by the Church, brought in with prodigious signs, confirmed by the visible presence of God in miracles: and one more we expect, which shall change all things temporal into eternal at the end of the world. Besides these, neither the scripture mentioneth any more, neither the judgement of the Church and fathers did expect other. For what prophesy either in the old testament or in the new made way for this reformation, after 1000 or 1500. years? What prodigious signs gave the world warning of Luther's coming? which of the creatures out of course gave attendance at his birth? with what extraordinary power was he guarded? with what miracles was his doctrine graced? That a religion venerable for age, certain for succession, comely for order, admirable for unity, approved by experience, allowed by providence, confirmed by miracles, rooted in so many kingdoms, that never was doubted of but by heretics, never saw change but by her enemies, should upon one man's, and such a man's credit, and authority without greater cause, nay without any cause fly the world, & leave her kingdom and royalty at the dispose of one Apostata and Monk, and an incestuous Monk.   

ANSWER.  
THose two memorable varieties, one restoring nature by the moral law, adding withal a vail of shadows and religious ceremonies: the second removing that vail, & changing the moonlight of the law into the sunshine of the Gospel, have the pre-eminence before all other changes whatsoever: neither is there any past, or hereafter to be expected, comparable to these two. Notwithstanding besides these, there have been many restitutions of the Church from errors and heresies in all ages: you discern none at all. Yet of all others I wonder you spied not that of the morning star john Baptist, so conspicuous above the rest, so consonant to your own notes: Registered in Scripture, prophesied of before, expected by the Church, brought in with prodigious signs, who made a memorable variety, 
Luke 1. 17. Esa. 40. 3. Luke. 1 64. Luke. 16. 16.  not only by way of restitution in the doctrine of repentance, but also by addition in his watery baptism. The rising of which star was the moone-set of Moses and the Prophets, making a period of the law. For so saith the text: The law & the Prophets lasted till john Baptist, who shined till the son of God 
john. 3. 30.  appeared, and then ceased: Oportet illum crescere, meauten minui.  
Moreover besides these three lights, if I should take upon me to reckon the lesser lights of the Church, which have restored it from darkness and corruption in all ages, I might as well number the stars in the firmament. Were not Abraham and Lot lights to expel the mists of that idolatrous age? Did not false gods after so far prevail, that they entered into 
Gen. 35. 2. 3.  the family of blessed jaacob, and possessed all that were about him, till he rose as a star in his brightness to clear his whole family, and make restitution of his former religion in Bethel? How many relapses in the time of the law? not only the congregation of Israel adored a calf, but even the Priest himself was urged to consent (as you confess Pope Liberius was to Arrianisme:) Did not all Israel after the death of joshua, and that good generation, run after Baalim? In the time of 
judg. 2. 10.  Saul the Ark of God was never sought for, till that glorious 
Chro. 13. 3.  star of Israel king David restored it again.  
How many Idols were after erected by the kings of jerusalem and juda? All the abominations of the nations and the whole host of Heaven worshipped in Israel: carved Images seated in the temple of God: yea the book of the law lost by the priests. Yet notwithstanding as their backslidings were many, so was there manifold restitution made by the lights of Israel, the Church still reform again by the Prophets and holy men of God. And can you spy never a reformation besides those two grand ones of Moses, and the son of God? This was the condition of the natural branches the jews: and no less is to be expected of the Church of the Gentiles in this state militant, but that it be sometimes darkened & eclipsed, as well in abuse of practice, as error of doctrine, in some ages more, in some less; & again, by divine providence (raising up some of notable learning and extraordinary spirit) enlightened and restored to her first integrity: so far forth as truth can prevail with corruption of the time: such were the Catholic Bishops that restored her from the deluge of Arrianisme.  
Neither is it to be expected that any of the creatures should be out of course to give the world warning of such reformers. For it is well known these reformations be of a far other kind, than those former made by Moses, john Baptist, & the son of God. For those were ever with some addition of perfection not revealed before. Therefore no reason the world should take notice of them without divine confirmation by signs & wonders. For had Moses, john Baptist, or the Messiah himself borne witness of themselves, without the testimony of miraculous works, or former prophecies; there being neither Canon of Scripture to prove them, nor divine revelation to discern them by, no reason in the world, nor religionin the Church could possibly have entertained them. But sithence the last perfection is now revealed by the Gospel, and that absolute Canon of Scripture given to the Church, to which nothing must be added in pain of eternal plague: of 
Apoc. 22. 18. Vincent. Lirin.  which that ancient writer (so approved by you) doth aver, Solus sufficit ad omnia satis superque: all reformations of the Church whatsoever have been since, or hereafter shallbe, must 
ca 2. & 41.  come under the name of mere restitutions without addition, not instituting any new doctrine, but restoring the ancient, not creating a new Church (as you fond imagine) but reducing the old unto the primitive. Therefore in this kind there is no need of miracles, or prodigious signs, seeing our reformers bring no new revelations of their own, but only make appeals to the judgement of the primitive Church: & desire credit, of others, no further than they give evidence of argument, drawn from such grounds as be received of all hands. Then seeing their proceed be ordinary, what extraordinary wonders are to be expected?  
Neither was it their desire & motion in this reformation, that the present visible Church, should fly the world, and leave her kingdom & royalty, but only this that it should be purged: because reason telleth us, & experience hath proved it, that the visible Church is not all spirit, but some flesh, though she be informed by the holy Ghost in her holy and general assemblies, yet she consisteth likewise of earthly, frail, & sinful men; & therefore she must of necessity gather some dust, & in time grow corrupt, if she do not cleanse & refine herself. Whereupon motion was made to the commanders of the Church for the reformation of certain abuses, which being crept in had gotten a head, and were grown to that pitch, that they became burdensome to the consciences of religious men. This complaint being not hearkened unto, they persuaded themselves that the backwardness of their brethren could not be to them a sufficient excuse, not to reform themselves. For this cause they protested a separation from their fellowship and communion in those points, until such time as it should please God to move their minds, so to refine themselves from those corruptions, as there might ensue conformity: a thing wished and prayed for, with sighs not to be expressed.  
So that the strength of this your Motive (which makes Martin Luther, & his fellows seem so odious unto you) is resolved into these two questions. First, whether in his time there were abuses in the Church, that required a reformation? Secondly, reformation being denied, & unhoped for, whether they were abuses of that nature & degree, as did bind the conscience of true catholics, not to communicate with others in them? Which two points if they be true, they clear our reformers from all slander, & suspicion either of heresy or schism: & until you have proved them false, this & the like general motives to this purpose be mere shadows without substance, of no value, or force at all.     

THE SIXTH MOTIVE.  


AS the cause is the pattern of the effects, upon which ground Saint Paul from the unity of God's Church buildeth the unity of faith: so may we go backwards from the defference of effects to deny the affinity of the cause, and from the impossibility of union in faith, take away the possibility of dependence upon God. Such is the religion of the protestants, which hath no certain principle of unity, and therefore lacketh the cognisance whereby true religion is known. For where there is not an infallible authority, which doth judge and decide controversies by removing all actions of doubt and reply, and unto which absolute obedience is tied: there must needs be variety of judgements and opinions, which cannot be tied in one knot. For all unity in particulars, proceedeth from the unity of some cause wherein all agree. But there is no such infallible authority, the judge of controversies, besides the voice of the Church, which the protestants either put altogether to silence, or else obey so far as they please. For the scriptures, whom they have erected to be judges (as rebels that put down all judges, and pretend to be ruled only by the law) cannot alone supply this place, to take away all occasionof controversies. And if there were no other argument, their own irreconcilable quarrels in so manifold differences among themselves might suffice to stop their mouths herein. For as divers parcels of silk of deeper or lighter ground, dipped by the Dyar in the same liquor, drink in a several tincture of colour according to their former variety: so they that dive in the letter of the holy scripture according as their judgements are before stained with prejudice of one or other opinion, come forth again not in unity of minds, but in the same differences as they went in, more, or less. Or as in the miracle of tongues given to the Apostles, when many auditors of divers languages came to hear them, although the same men could speak no more but one idiom at once, yet the several auditors comprehended them as if they had spoken in the propriety of their speech: so when many of divers languages in religion, come to hear some one of the Apostles speaking in the scripture, although the author use only the voice of the truth, yet every sundry faction doth conceive him as speaking in the several confusion of their opinions. Neither can they comfort themselves with any hope to see these diverse opinions wound up in one confession. For as the unity in conclusion in logic, cannot be without the unity of the medium; so they cannot meet in that middle way which should bring them into peace able composition, unless they return to the Church. For all grant there is no way to accomplish it without a council: but who shall call it, when there is none whom they all obey? How many factions shall assemble? out of what sect shall the precedent be chosen? what number of suffrages shall there be on every side? what rule shall be allowed for the interpretation of the scriptures? And if all this were by a dream imagined; yet the authority of the Canons, and conclusions shall not be so authentical, but that any private head may refuse it, if in his own singularity he think it disagreeing from the scripture: so desperate is the possibility of union among them, that hope, which imagineth impossible things, cannot possibly imagine it.   

ANSWER.  
AS every defect and imperfection tendeth unto dissolution, so the good estate of every body, aswell politic and mystical, as natural, doth consist in the unity of the whole, & harmony of the parts amongst themselves. Therefore seeing the band of unity, knitting many members into one whole, maketh an entire body: that society is of all others conceived to be most absolute, which hath attained to the greatest perfection of unity. Which kind of reason moved the Philosopher to give the pre-eminence to a Monarchy before other simple forms. So the Apostle (in the place whence you take your rise) from the unity of God's Church doth build the unity of faith: as also the unity of spirit in the bond of peace, urging a preservation and increase of the same, as a thing most perfecting the whole body. This is a mark Saint Paul willeth us to aim at, and endeavour to attain the perfection of it. But you (as if your Church had already attained it, and were perfect in this unity of faith) have fancied to yourself such an uniformity in religion, and such an infallible means to enjoy the same, as doth expel all differences in judgements and opinions, remove all occasions of doubt and reply, and unto which perfect obedience is tied. By this cognisance have you discerned and noted the only true catholic Church, and thereby cut of all protestants from that body. So did Tully describe an orator, who never yet was known either at Rome or Athens: so did Plato imagine a commonwealth, collected of the select perfections of all societies: and so hath your chemical fancy conceited a Church in her state here militant, which by trial will prove a mere Utopia, not to be found upon the earth. For you might easily conceive even in reason, that albeit unity be essential to a body, and consequently the unity of faith to the Church of Christ: yet as there be many degrees of perfections in the church, so be there likewise of unity in faith. Concerning the very body of religion, and more material points of faith, there is in our Church an uniform accord, and agreement: though in other branches some differences: as amongst yourselves, how many jars betwixt Aquin and Scotus, and the rest of that school, scarce three of them saying one thing? How many errors condemned in your Cardinal Caietan, by Melchior, Canus, and Bellarmin? The jacobins and the Cordelians could never agree about the Virgin Mary her conception. In a word, it cannot be denied, but so many orders of friars, almost so many sects in opinions, and deadly quarrels even at this day. Wherefore, before this your peremptory conclusion of deposing Churches, it had been a point very requisite, first to have defined what degree of unity were necessary, and what kind of differences brings the Church of Christ to utter dissolution, so that it remain no longer to be a Church. But you taking a course most easy to deceive yourself and others, discourse aloof in generalities, and take the perfection of unity at the highest pitch, to make a more glorious show.  
So then the weight of this your argument resteth itself upon these two points. First that the providence of God hath provided for his Church militant a perpetual and infallible means of unity in faith, and such a unity as takes away variety of judgements and opinions, removes all occasions of doubt and reply: and unto which absolute obedience is tied. Secondly, that this means is to be found in the Church of Rome, and not else where. Let us briefly examine the first ground: which if it prove sandy, the whole frame of this your building falls by it own weight. Saint Paul his argument in the fourth to the Ephesians, from whence you have raised this whole discourse (in your own sense) makes directly against you. For as from unity of God's Church he buildeth the unity of faith: so doth he likewise the unity of spirit in the bond of peace. Then if from the defect of unity in faith you will go backward to deny the Church, you must deny it likewise (by virtue of the same text) upon any quarrels or contentions, civil or ecclesiastical, which do impeach the unity of love in the bond of peace. But I wots you will be better advised, and grant there may be a visible Church, though the unity of peace be not in perfection. And may there not be one also amongst us in some differences of judgements? yea much more; since variety of opinions rise commonly from ignorance and weakness of judgement: whereas those other quarrels proceed rather from malice and envy, and therefore are less venial, and more likely to take away the possibility of dependence upon God. Let us then leave to strain at gnats, and ingenuously acknowledge thus much at the first: that all differences do not take away the nature of the true Church. Next that all unity doth not prove a Church. For there may be aswellconspiracie in error, as unity in faith. Yea the kingdom of Satan is at unity with itself: Or else (saith our Saviour) it 
Mark. 3. 24.  could not possibly endure. If this policy be the strength of his kingdom, no marvel if the same be found amongst his instruments, as the prophet Nahum speaks of the enemies of God's people the Assyrians, comparing them to a fir bush or 
Nahum. 1. 10.  heap of thorns twined or folden one within another.  
Your next shift will be that differences of judgements among catholics before definitive sentence given, be neither damnable, nor concern matters of faith: but after the Church hath given her voice (unto which perfect obedience is tied) then such a truth so determined is presently to be embraced without reply or further inquiry. Which conceit seems to make void the end of that divine dispensation, by which you affirm some sediitons and factions to spring in the kingdom of God. 
Motive 4.   
Which in his wisdom be not only permitted, but disposed and ordered to the exercise, and more full trial of the faithful. To which purpose we are often urged in the text to search the scriptures, try the spirits, prove all things: but here is a shorter cut for a catholic. Only these two points. First in any doubtful question undetermined, either let him suspend his judgement: or if he lift to take a side, it is not dangerous, until the Church have defined: and then secondly, after definitive sentence let him embrace it, as a matter of faith without further examination. Me thinks this trial is too too easy, that a catholic should put himself into such complete armour (as the Apostle biddeth) as to, have his loins 
Ephes. 6. 15. 16. 17.  girt, with verity, his feet shod with the preparation of the Gospel, to take unto him the shield of faith, the sword of the spirit, to make such search and examination for the truth of 
joh. 5. 39  God: and when it comes to the point, so he keep himself within compass of the visible Church (which is very spacious) he may safely fight, on which side he list, without danger; and, when sentence is past, yield consent with security. Which position (I must needs confess) hath the advantage of man's nature far above the other. For that which we desire and wish for we are easily induced to believe: wherefore every man naturally affecting to enjoy security, with all facility and ease that may be doth willingly persuade himself of this and the like plausible conceits, even by the sway of his own inclination. Which thing makes it no whit less suspected of error, but rather much more, because every natural motion and desire arising out of the inferior part of the soul, must by the kingdom of Christ be either quite subdued and rooted out, or at the least, so crossed and qualified, as it seldom remains the same.  
So then to draw this whole point to a more narrow issue, our demand is, whether upon the promise of God made to his Church for her preservation in the faith of Christ, there may not be built over much security? that is, as the school hath conceived of theological virtues, though on God's part, respecting his promise, there can be no excess of hope, or confidence, yet in regard of the perverseness of our nature (which may make the general promise of God less effectual to us) there may grow presumption: because those promises be not absolute, but conditional; so whether the promise of God's assistance to his Church be of the like nature, with some condition to be observed of the Church's part; or whether it be altogether absolute, is one point in question. That it is in part absolute, is a thing granted of all hands, to wit, that neither the wickedness of man, nor the gates of hell shall ever so far prevail against it, as quite to extinguish 
Mat. 16. 18.  it, but it shall continue a Church till the last dissolution. For else wherefore should heaven and earth stand? to be a cage of unclean birds, or a theatre of iddle vanities? This cannot agree possibly with divine providence. But for those promises which concern the better being of the Church, as the enlarging of her dominions, the increase of the number of true and zealous catholics, her more conspicuous and flourishing estate, her preservation from the inundations of heresies, from the Apostasies of her members, and schisines of the whole body, her deliverance from the mists of errors, and finally her sound and more sincere profession of the truth: concerning these promises of assistance (I say) though God be faithful who hath promised, yet the Church by reason of her manifold sins may make them less effectual unto her. But taking all these promises to be most absolute without condition, we may grow presumptuous, promising to the Church overmuch security.  
Such was the error of the jews in the time of john Baptist, 
Mat. 3. 9  who building upon the promise of God made to their forefathers, not regarding any condition on their part to be performed, thought themselves secure, while they could but say they had Abraham to their father, and show their lineal descent out of his loins. But the answer doth directly overthrow that conceit. God is able of stones to raise up children 
Mat. 3.  unto Abraham, insinuating that which Saint Paul more fully doth express (Gala. 3. 7.) They which are of faith are the children of Abraham, though by propagation no more proceeding out of his loins, than the very stones in the street. Be it so, that the promise of the assistance and residence 〈◊〉 God's spirit in the Church was made to Peter and his successors, as the promise of God's favour to Abraham and his seed. The seed of Abraham according to promise we have found not to be those children which proceeded out of his loins by natural descent, but such as resembled father Abraham in faith & godliness. I demand then first (of any indifferent man) who be principally meant by Peter's successors according to the promise? I mean that promise made unto Peter and his followers to the end of the world. Whether those Bishops of Rome, who can only say they have Peter for their predecessor, and show a lineal and local descent from Peter in that Sea: or rather those of special note in the Church of Christ (at Rome or elsewhere) who aswell in ability to govern, as soundness of doctrine and sincerity of life, do resemble that blessed Apostle? Something to enlighten myself by example: Saint Basil Bishop of Caesaerea, but never of Rome, was notwithstanding by Saint Chrysostome iwested with that glorious title of Peter's successor, in his second book de sacerdotibus. I demand whether such a father of the Church renowned for doctrine and 
1. Septa Synod. Constantinop. Act. 13.  life, though never seated at Rome, be not rather to be accounted the Apostle his successor according to promise, than 
2. Synod. Nicaena 2. Act. 7.  either Pope john infamous for life, or Pope Honorius the Monothelite, for that heresy condemned by three general 
3. Synod. 80. Constantinop. sub. Adrian. 2. Act. 7.  counsels? Secondly (to give you a little more ground) suppose the Bishops of Rome be more privileged by their local succession, and have greater interest in the promise made to Peter and his successors, than Doctors of other seas (which I cannot yet find) but suppose it though, as the seed of Abraham even according to the flesh, in that regard were nearer to the promise then strangers, as the Apostle witnesseth, For unto you the promise belongeth: my next demand is, whether that promise made to Peter, and in him to his successors of Rome, be absolutely tied to them, or with some condition by them to be performed? Of that old promise made to Abraham we find two conditions required in his seed, one of faith set down by Saint Paul, 
Gal. 3. 7.  They which are of faith are the children of Abraham: and the other of works mentioned by our Saviour, If ye were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham. The breach 
john. 8. 39 Rom. 11. 19  of these conditions caused those natural branches the jews to be cut off. Whereupon the Apostle maketh an admonition to the Church of the Romans & the rest of the Gentiles, by their example, not to presume, since God spared not the natural branches, lest he spare not them, Noli altum sapere, sed time. Which is not so to be conceived, as if there could be a general Apostasy of the Catholic Church from faith: but so, as if amongst the Romans or other Gentiles, the current of the visible Church and fountain of divine graces might be dried up, and begin to spring afresh amongst the jews, or other nations. Then if this be possible, nay if it be (as the Apostle speaketh) to be feared of us: that the Romans or any of the Gentiles may fall from faith, and be cut off from the promise, as yourselves do sentence the Churches of the East at this day to be fallen, then much more may there be a possibility of error in your Church in some branch of faith. For such a fall cannot be in a moment, but must needs presuppose some preparations going before.  
So then to wind up this whole discourse, you taking the promise made in Peter to the Sea of Rome absolutely, not respecting any condition at all, may thereupon build overmuch security, and so consequently fancy to yourselves a confirmed estate of the Roman Church (like the state of Angels,) & imagine therein a means of deciding controversies more certain and infallible, then God in his divine wisdom thought meet for her state militant here upon earth. Yet albeit we cannot hope for a means of unity in that degree of certainty, which fancy may easily imagine, or man's nature desire: Notwithstanding there be excellent means for the certain finding out of necessary truth, provided by God in his Church: not one but many, and amongst many, no one so certain to us, which man by his ignorance or wilfulness may not pervert to his own destruction. Wherefore though first and principally we appeal to scripture, as to the certain rule and ground of all the rest: yet for the true sense and interpretation of scripture, we confirm ourselves by the consent of the learned in the Church; by the analogy of faith, and common grounds of belief delivered by the Church, and collected by the ancient fathers out of the most plain & undoubted scriptures, by the general consent of antiquity, by 
Pasil. ep. 52. ad Athanas. Nazian. 2. Epi. ad Procopium. Propter multitudinem hereticis faventium infaustum exitum habuerunt omnia consilia illis temporibus, qualia fuerint Sel●usiense, Tirense, Ariminense, Mediolanense, Smyrnense, etc.  provincial and general counsels, which at this day we wish and hearty pray, might be called without partiality; but our complaint is the same with Saint Basil and Gregory Nazianzene in their time, that a general counsel cannot be called with indifferency, in the throng of so many quarrels, especially since the head of the strongest faction must needs be possessed with a prejudice in his own cause. These means of finding and maintaining the truth of God, though taken severally they may seem the weaker, yet all or most of them joined together are sufficient to rest the consciences of true Catholics. To the perfection where of we labour to attain, forgetting that which is behind, and endeavouring to that which is before.     

THE SEVENTH MOTIVE.  


THe divine providence, which as a centre indifferently extendeth itself to the universality of things, hath allowed every creature common strength to preserve his being, such is in lifeless bodies their place, or motion, or qualities; in vegetable their instinct of distinguishing their proper aliment; in beasts, the judgement of sense, and privilege of nature; and in man an apprehension, censure, and project from the intelligence of sensible occurrents, both in natural and civil bodies.  
The same wisdom and bounty, which hath been so enlarged to his servants, cannot be straightened to his children: and therefore it is above all doubt, that he hath set some plain and certain direction in his Church, both of discerning of heresies when they arise, and of avoiding the infection of them: neither hath the holy Ghost failed herein, for because all the dangers of the Church were chief to come from heretics, he hath drawn in the scripture, as in a table, the picture of heretics, their apparel, fashion, speech, and carriage whereby they might be noted upon the first appearance, But among all other Items, none is oftener given for a mark to discern them, than their difference of doctrine, from the former tradition and custom. There shall be false teachers which shall bring in heresies. 2. Peter. 2. 1. If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine john. 2. 10. And the contradiction of Corah. 1. Tim. 8. If any man teach other wise then that which you have heard from the beginning. Let it abide in you, fight for the faith once delivered: keep the traditions you are taught. And if any man would fashion in his wishes a plain and sensible rule, whereby the thickest conceits, that are not able to go between truth and error in the losest controversies, might determine any question; there cannot be a better fancied then this difference of teaching, and innovation of doctrine, which he that understandeth not the sense may perceive by the words, the sounds, and contradiction of former opinion, as men that are skilful in musical proportions, and being acquainted through use of song, can easily judge if any change be made therein. By this were all heresies apprehended at the first, and also arraigned. So that Stephanus Bishop of Rome overthrew the decree of the council of Carthage, for rebaptising, wherein Saint Cyprian was precedent, with his own rule, Ecclesia Dei non habet talem consuetudinem. So Luther and Zwinglius and the rest of that crew, were at the first appearing branded by this note for heretics.   

ANSWER.  
THis is the same fallacy with the former applied another way: for as in the last motive, you have assured the Church of an infallible means to define all truth: so in this you secure her members likewise of a power with facility to discern heretics, by argument drawn from the general providence of God extending itself to all creatures, but most of all to his children. In which ground there is some truth, but entwined with some errors. For as in other creatures the divine providence is very bountiful, for the preservation of their several beings against injury and dangers: yet for all the power of nature in senseless things, or the judgement of sense in the unreasonable, or the benefit of reason in men, they be notwithstanding oftentimes subject aswell to the pray and violence, as to the craft and deceit of others: so is it in the professors of christian faith: unto whom God hath revealed a means to preserve their spiritual being in this state militant, more certain, and far more sufficient for them, than he hath given to any other: yet not with such ease & facility to be enjoyed, as in this motive you endeavour to persuade. For albeit the Scripture hath not been wanting in describing heretics so plainly, as by way of prophecy could possibly be expressed: yet are they not thereby presently known upon the first appearance, nor can the thickest conceits so easily judge of them.  
If you take your marks (as you say) from their apparel, 
Mat. 7. 15.  fashion, or outward carriage: then a sheep's skin drawn over a wolf will easily deceive you: their outward appearance will in every respect seem holy and innocent as the sheep of Christ. Therefore is there need of a serpent's wisdom to discern them; and not that only, but also of diligence and watchfulness to espy them. For as they come in sheep's skins so come they privily, as Saint Peter noteth in 
2. Pet. 2. 1.  the place by you first mentioned, There shallbe false teachers who (privily) shall bring in damnable heresies. Which word, though it carry the emphasis of the sentence, yet is it by you wisely omitted: happily because you thought it a note of an heretic, not so well beseeming Martin Luther, who came not so privily I wis, but open enough, and in his own likeness, contrary to the common fashion of heretics, who first put on a sheeps skin, and then creep into the flock, the easier to deceive. Wherefore when that prophecy is fufilled, which you have so fitted unto these times, concerning the doctrine of many false Christ's: where the body is thither will the eagle's resort, not owls, or bussards, but such as have a quick eye of 
Mat. 24. 28.  faith to discern the Lord, and the swift wing of devotion to fly unto him. Nay the delusions of heresies shall then grow so strong, as nothing shall be able to withstand them, but only the eternal election of God. For if it were possible the very elect should be deceived. A small number (God knows) in compare of that 
Vers. 24.  glorious multitude, you so boast of in your fifth motive: yet it seems these few must stand, when many great troops are carried with the doctrine of false Christ's. Ecce hic, & ecce illic. But these difficulties seem nothing unto you, who can imagine a direction so plain against heretics, as the thickest and most gross conceit may thereby with facility discern them. The most notorious mark you have chosen, is their difference of doctrine from the former tradition, and custom.  
All ancient customs, & traditions received from our forefathers, being venerable for age, have received such force from time, as they become equivalent with laws, and bind posterities to yield perfect obedience. So that every alteration, as of civil constitutions, so especially of religion, is not only dangerous, but therein also prejudicial to itself, that it gainsayeth antiquity. For of whatsoever it may be justly affirmed, Dictum fuit antiquis, that is to stand inviolable against 
Mat. 5.  all innovation whatsoever: neither is it by any means to be overruled, but only by a rule more ancient, Non fuit sic ab 
Mat. 19 8.  initio. By which our Saviour controlled the ancient traditions of the jews: examining them by the first institution of the law. For the first in every kind is the rule and square of all the rest. Therefore every custom in the Church of God is with all duty, and reverence to be embraced, except only in case, where it doth cross the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles, whereupon the Church itself is built. And therein, adificium coedat solo, so much only do the places by you alleged infer, that we should not vary from the doctrine of the Apostles, which we willingly subscribe unto.  
But in these days I would not wish every thick conceit to put himself upon the trial of former times for true antiquity, lest he be deceived therein, as Israel was by the Gibeonites with old rags and clouted shoes, joshua. 9 But 
Motive 14. Cap. 39 Dilatae & inveteratae haereses nequaquam hac via aggrediedae sunt 〈◊〉 quod pro● temporum tractu longa 〈◊〉 furandae veritatis patuerit occasio.  the safest trial will be, Quid fuit ab initio? as we learn out of Vincentius in his worthy work (as D. Bristol calls it) for put case (saith he) that heresy be once so rooted in the Church, that it gins to plead antiquity, that it spread so far, and have got such strength as the favourers thereof have power and opportunity to alter and corrupt the ancient writers: then is it only safe to make trial by the written word. How justly these things have been objected to the Church of Rome, I will not dispute: only let this suffice, that an author so ancient, 
Sola scripturunt authoritate.  so renowned by yourselves, doth not only think it possible to befall in the visible Church, but also hath set down this advise against the same. I come to the strength of this motive, which is the conclusion of this whole discourse.    


MOTIVE.  
Neither are they able to prove that either catholic or heretic did challenge the Church of Rome for any of the controverted questions, when first they began to arise. For Arius, Actius, Vigilantius, Berengarius, and the rest spoke against those points of doctrine, which we have proof by the adversaries consent to have been practised many ages before in the Church. But if they cannot show neither in all, nor in one question between us, that the repugnance and rejecting of it by any is ancient, as the allowance thereof, it is manifest that the latter, not the former, were heretics which brought in alteration.   

ANSWER.  
WE are able in some questions to satisfy your demand, and for the rest to give sufficient reason, why it cannot be: which two points will easily and fully dissolve the force of this objection. For matters in question, whereof the Church of Rome is now challenged, be of two sorts. Some be like blemishes in the face, so conspicuous, as they may easily be discerned at the first: others fester more inwardly. To the former kind do belong especially those points, which concern the government of the Church. Loath I am to enter particulars in this general discourse, but only because you urge me to show in any one question between us, that the repugnance and rejecting of it, is ancient, as the allowance thereof. I nominate the title and right of universal Bishop, with the privileges thereunto belonging: which, as they were claimed by the Popes, so were they at the same times evermore disclaimed by others. For the Primacy of honour & dignity, which at the first was generally given to the Church of Rome, aswell in regard of her large dominions, of the wisdom and virtues of the commanders of that Sea: as also of the weakness and levity of the Eastern Churches, together with other occurrents and consequences of the Empire: This I say was by the more ambitious Popes and their Parasites used for a stirrup to mount them higher, from a primacy to a supremacy, from honour & dignity to a sovereign power and authority. Which was no sooner upon occasion practised by any, but presently was it checked and controlled, not by particular men, but whole Synods. Pope julius presuming upon this title did attempt to restore Athanasius, & Paulinus, upon their appeal to Rome, who by the bishops of Asia and their Metropolitan had been deprived. Whereupon they of Alexandria assembled a synod at Antioch: dispatched letters to the Pope both vehement and bitter: and therein declared it to be most unequal for him to impose laws upon them for the depriving of any, since they did not intermeddle with his business, when he had expelled Novatus out of the Church of Rome. Thus much is fully expressed by Socrates in the 11. of his ecclesiastical story. If you require instance of the Bishops of Africa likewise, witness Saint Syprian writing to Pope Cornelius, unto whom he affirms their joint decree against Rome appealers to be both equal & right. For (saith he) since every pastor hath a portion of the flock committed to him, which he is to govern and rule as one that must give account thereof unto the Lord: it behoveth them under our custody to plead their cause at home, where accusers and witnesses may be had, unless happily some few desperate lewd fellows 
Nisi paeucis desperatis, & perditis minor videtur esse authoritas Episcoporum in Africa, etc.  think the authority of the African Bishops to be less, by whom they are judged. Thus did Cyprian write occasioned by one Faelicissimus, who, deprived in Africa, ran to Rome. But this repugnance you cannot deny to be ancient. A little after at the counsel of Sardice this question of jurisdiction grew so hot twixt the fathers of the East and West Churches, that the Eastern Bishops, before any thing determined, retired themselves home to their places, the remnant of the Latin Church established a law concerning appeals to Rome, thereby to extol the famous memory of the Apostle Peter. But at the very next counsel all this was quite dashed again, at the counsel of Carthage assembled of above 200 fathers amongst whom Saint Augustine was one; where it was peremptorily decreed, not in one or two, but four entire chapters: 
Cap. 28. 98. 116. 123.  that none should make any appeal beyond the Sea, in pain of excommunication. Notwithstanding unto this counsel did the Pope send three Legates, with strait command 
Faustinus. Philippus. Asellus.  to maintain his right, which he pretended to be grounded upon a decree of the Nicen Counsel: that decree was proved forged: the Nicen Counsel sought into: the ancient copies thereof sent for from Constantinople, Alexandria and Rome: the next year conferred, examined, nothing found. Whereupon the Bishops of that Counsel writ to the Pope, that in the Nicen Counsel nothing was decreed tending that way, but rather the contrary, to wit, that he should keep himself within his bounds, as other Metropolitans did: and therefore advised him to content himself with his own charge. To this subscribed 230. fathers. If you come to latter times, when his full and most complete supremacy was defined at the Lateran Counsel, under Leo the tenth: presently upon it the University of Paris appealed to another Counsel, and condemned that former. So may ye find other Universities to have done in the like cause, as Lovan, Colen, Uienna, and the 
In fascicul. rerum expetend. & fugiend. Apeliat univers. Parisiens'. à Leone decimo ad futurum consilium.  rest. So in these and the like points concerning the external face of the Church, more conspicuous, & consequently more subject to gain sayings, the repugnance and rejecting of them might easily be shown to be ancient, as the allowance of them is. But there be other questions concerning faith and opinion, which be of a far different kind from the former. Much like unto those tars in the parable, scattered by the enemy in the seed time of the Church, the better to plead antiquity, yet are they not at the first espied though, till they have sprung up, and laid claim to the ground, as well as the most pure wheat. Whereof there be many causes concurring: one is because they be little seeds at the first, and therefore less regarded of men, De minimis non curat lex aut ratio. And not only from little evils, but even from indifferent beginnings, as the devotions and natural affections of men, doth the enemy take occasion to bring in gross superstition. Whereof the wise man giveth instance in that great sin of idolatry among the heathen. For when a father mourned grievously for his son that was taken away suddenly, he made an image for him that was once dead, endeavouring after a sort to preserve him alive in the eye and memory of man. Which affection in the father (had it proceeded no further) 
Wisd. 14. 14.  were not greatly to be misliked: but after, he worshipped it as a God, ordained ceremonies, and commanded his servants to sacrifice unto it. Thus (saith the text) by process of time this wicked custom prevailed, and was kept as a law. Secondly, as the beginnings be small, and therefore less conspicuous: so do they breed inwardly, and take deep root, first in the minds of men, before they be published in the Church, as the seed is first covered with earth before it spring up. To this purpose doth our Saviour compare the false doctrine of the pharisees unto leaven, which a woman takes and hides in a barrel of meal. So by this means, a little leaven in time, will sour the lump. Thirdly, as the beginnings of errors, so likewise their growthes and proceed are unsensible, because they do not sprout up like jonas Gourd, in a moment, but like ordinary plants, by little and little: Non crescere cernis frutices, sed crenisse: The same reason which is of the growth of error, is likewise to be applied to the decay of pure religion: which being not put down at once, but mouldering away in time, is not so easily perceived. For had the Figtree which the Disciples saw suddenly withered, and flourishing over night, dried up in longer space, it had not been so subject to their observation. Besides these impediments, we must presume, that the enemy being wise, will take all fit opportunity that may be: then since all ages have not been alike furnished with able and vigilant pastors, that also addeth some advantage to this purpose. For it is observed, that when men slept, the enemy sowed tars, so the dark nights of ignorance and times of security, be fittest to entertain heresies without resistance. But in other ages again, when it pleased almighty God to raise most glorious lights in his Church, such as were most of the ancient Fathers, they were presently set a work with some grand heretic or other, which so possessed them, as they could not so well intent those lesser enormities, which by that means gathered strength more and more. For they were to gather all their forces, and encounter with such heresies, as did aim at the soul of religion, and main pillars of christian faith: some taking away the divinity of Christ; some mangling his humanity; some confounding his natures; some renting his person: thus the Dragon setting upon the Lord of life, and ready to tear in pieces the very person of our blessed Saviour: it was then no time to stand brushing his garment: having such huge beams to remove, it was unseasonable to peck moats, though they also hinder the eye sight, and become dangerous in time, to the very apple of God's eye, as the Church is called. So then, to conclude, as in divers questions controversed, the repugnances may be showed to have been ancient: so there is good reason you should pardon us for some others.  
Thus have I briefly examined these few motives; not any ways extenuating (so far as I can conceive) but rather urging them with the advantage: which if I have in any reasonable sort satisfied, my next endeavour is humble prayer to almighty God, so to move your heart, as this your resolution be no more peremptory and strong, than the Motives whereupon it buildeth, are in reason, able to enforce.    
Amen.  
FINIS.