A SHIELD OF DEFENCE AGAINST THE ARROWS OF SCHISM Shot abroad by jean de L'escluse in his advertisement against Mr. BRIGHTMAN. Here unto is prefixed a declaration touching a book entitled, The profane schism of the Brownistes. By john Fowler. Clement Saunders. Robert Bulwarde. Luk. 12. vers. 2. For there is nothing covered, that shall not be Revealed, neither hid, that shall not be known. Printed at Amsterdam by Henry Laurenson Dwelling upon the water at the sign of the writing book. 1612. A declaration touching a book lately printed & entitled, The Profane schesme of the Brownistes. CHristian reader, there was of late a book published in London under this title, The profane schism of the Brounistes; Such a book indeed we sent by one of us to be printed there, but in the publishing thereof great injury hath been done unto us, & chiefly three ways, by addition, by detraction & by alteration of the same: For the first, besides the addition of sundry harsh words & phrases of heresies, blasphemies, diabolus, horrible crimes & c. in such place where they were not used by us, which yet according to the doctrine of the Brownistes themselves may justly be applied unto them; besides the addition in the title of the book which is doubly increased by the publisher thereof; beside the addition of the other titles of the several chapters with a new table thereof added in stead of that which we had made; besides sundry other such additions, there be also added some things directly contrary to our meaning & such as never came into our heads, as namely those words in the end of the preface, as also to warn all such as have been the occasion of those heresies & schisms to conform themselves to the church of God, that these caterpillars may no more rise out of them. And although we be & c. By those words the reader might conceive as though we affirmed those ministers which do refuse subscription & conformity unto the prelacy & superstitious ceremonies used in the church of England, to have been the occasion of Brownisme & guilty of that schism etc. But the truth is otherwise, there were no such words written in the book which we sent to be printed, but they are foisted in & obtruded upon us by some falsifier without our knowledge or consent, Our judgement is that the tyranny of Lord BBs & their impositions are a stumbling block unto many that are weak which do thereby take occasion to fall from the church & to run into schism. We assure ourselves that if there were in the church of England such a reformation of the prelacy & ceremonies as is desired by the ministers there & is also obtained in other reformed churches, there would not than be such a defection unto Brownisme as now there is. We know indeed that the Brounistes do join with the prelate's in upbraiding the ministers with this thing & would seem to build their separation upon the testimony of the ministers, as appeareth by this book of Delescluse, where he labours to conclude their separation from certain speeches of Mr. Brightman testifying against the corruptions of the church of England, but how unjustly & absurdly he hath done the same we hope it will evidently appear by this refutation follwing. Secondly, there is in sum left out the greatest part of the book which we sent to be printed, yea in exact account there is not a fourth part there of that is printed: In special there is not a third part of the preface printed wherein our reasons for the manner of publishing that book are contained; there is left out a large answer unto a narration written by Mr. johnson touching an offer of conference that was made unto him; likewise the answer unto the grounds of scripture alleged by M. johnson in in defence of separation is left out; Divers testimonies of Dutch & french ministers against them be omitted, with other writings of john johnson & George johnson that should have been printed: The greatest part of the vilest slanders of the Brounistes are left out: The greatest number of the chapters by far is omitted; that which should have been the tenth chapter is made the first nine of the first being altogether omitted, besides sundry other in the mids of the book; & of those chapters that are there, no one of them is fully set down, & in some of them more than half the matter omitted: Divers strange matters are noted in the book, but the occasion there of, the profess thereof with the answer unto the vain cavilles & shifts of the Brounistes about the same are omitted, & in respect of these omissions diverse things so abruptly set down may seem more harsh & also more incredible unto the reader; so that hereby it may easily appear how we are injuried by unreasonable omissions as well as by unjust additions. Thirdly, for the method & order of setting down these things that are printed, there is great alteration therein also: Things spoken upon one occasion are related upon an other, & not in their due place; The speeches of one man are so set down as if they had been spoken by an other; The speeches of diverse men are peeced together as if they had been spoken by one & the same person. In these & such like changes both we & those whose testimonies are alleged by us have received some further injury. Besides these things there be also as it appeareth many literal faults in the misprinting of sundry words which do much corrupt the sense of sundry things in the book. And though thus many & great injuries be done unto us yet do we not hitherto fully understand by whon they are done: Only this we understand by a letter sent from Chr. lawn who was entrusted which this business, that the according to the order in such like cases seeking unto such as were appointed for the allowance of books to be printed, & leaving it in the hands of a certain chaplain of the Archb to get it read over & viewed until he himself might return out of the country into which he was then going down before he could come up to London again he found the book already printed contrary to his expectation, & in the printing thereof so mangled & defaced as is above specified. And howsoever we do now disclaim this book above mentioned as none of ours being thus corruptly printed with such additions, omissions & alterations, yet do we still acknowledge that all the particular matters of fact recorded against the the Brwonistes in that book are such tiges as were taken out of our writing▪ & for proof thereof we are able & ready to produce our testimony & witness as occasion shall requi●e; The most of them are testified & confessed by themselves & the most heinous things even under their own hand writing; & the rest are such things as either we ourselves or others will witness. And therefore though we complain Brownistes insult there upon; though we be wronged, yet are not they cleared from the matters there noted which are still in force against them. Our desire & our purpose is hereafter as occasion, opportunity & means shall be offered more fully to manifest their Profane schism by the publishing of those things which formerly have been omitted, & in the mean time we do here present unto the reader a few observations upon the advertisement of jean Delescluse which he hath written against Mr. Brightman & against the communion of saints; His perverse collections for separation drawn from Mr. Brightman his Testimony, we have here showed to be vain & wicked. The principles of Brownisme which he hath briefly alleged are here briefly answered, yet so as that the vanity & error of their separation may be easily discerned hereby: This labour we have undertaken chiefly for the comfort & help of those weak brethren, who either do not sufficiently understand the iniquity of this error of the Brounistes or else do not duly consider the danger of this schism which as it daily breaks itself in pieces, so would it also break, ruinated & overthrew all the churches that should admit & receive the same. when corruptions do increase & are maintained, let the godly witness against the same, but let them not fret unto separation, & so shall they walk with Christ in white, Reu. 3. 4. An answer unto the advertisement of jean Delescluse concerning Mr. Brightman upon the Apocalyps. 1. WHereas in his title he pretends to advertise the godly reader, whom afterward in his Epistle he calls Gentle reader and Christian reader, mark how this man doth mock his reader; for by his profession of Brownisme he holds all the membres of the church of England to be no visible Christians, to be without true faith & without godliness, even every one as they are public professors of the gospel in that church & yet here in this flattering title of his English book he dissembles notably as though he would honour & record their godliness; And thus in the very forehead of his book, his hypocrisy begins to show itself. 2. WHereas in his title he takes on him to advertise every godly reader of Mr. Tho. Brightman his book, how absurd & senseless is it? There be many godly readers of Mr. Brightmans' book which understand no English at all, seeing it is extant in Latin, & yet he writes in English to advertise every one of them. 3. IN the same place he allegeth against the church of England that saying of the Prophet 1. Kim 18. 21. How long halt ye between two opinions? If the lord be God follow him, but if Baal be he then go after him. This is unjustly applied against them who are assured of their lawful communion with that church; but this sentence or the like may much more fitly be alleged against the divided & distracted Brownistes, who halt between two opinions, & between two communions, some halting after the Franciscane order, soon limping after the Ainsworthian & popular order, some hanging in doubt betwixt both opinions, so that they dare not join to either of them, but walk alone. 4. THe first cause which moved him to put forth this writing in defence of the separation, he sets down in these words: * Epist. to Read. pag. 3. First the glory of my God etc. what means he by this speech of his God, in saying, the glory of my God? Hath he and his flock a special God of his own more than other churches of Christ? It is true indeed that David & other faithful servants of God do often with the voice of faith use to speak of God in this manner, my king and my God as Ps. 84. 3. but yet if we look a little further into the profession of the Brownistes we may easily imagine some other cause of their speaking on this manner: for whereas R. R. in his prophesying among the prophets of Mr. Anisworthes company testified against their separation & justified the church of England to be a true church, being for this unjustly excommunicate of that company it was as unjustly defended by Mr. Ainsworth, who laid this ground of his excommunication from Deu. 13. 1. 2. etc. that he had sought to turn them away from the Lord their God & had persuaded them to go after other Gods and to serve than, & all this only for persuading that it was lawful to hear a sermon in the church of Engl. to pray with them &c: In this proceeding they declare that they hold the church of Engl. to be without the true God in that they condemn those that join with the same to turn away from the Lord their God & to go after other God● and therefore no marvel if according to this opinion they speak of their special God, intending an other God whom we know not. This may yet further appear in the speech of Delecluse who being blamed for his schism from the french church hath here upon condemned that reformed church as having Christ to be neither their King, priest nor Prophet: And if they be without Christ then are they without true God, joh. 2. Epist. vers. 9 and joh. 17. 3. According to these speeches it is not strange nor inconsequent that he should mean his special God in the forenamed phrase. jemar the monstrous Arrian pretending that we err about the nature of Christ doth blasphemously affirm that our God is no better than the plank under his foot, Delescluse the inordinate Brownist pretending that Christ is not our king doth hereby sacrilegiously both deprive Christ, of his people & his people of their God, their saviour & their mediator: And thus while he pretends the glory of his God, he treads under his feet the glory of that everlasting God, who is the God & king of all the reformed churches round about. 5. Again in his declaration of this first moving cause that made him to publish this treatise in defence of Brownisme, he allegeth diverse scriptures which teach that the people of God ought to be holy as the Lord is holy, as namely, Levit. 19 2. 1. Pet. 1. 5. 16. But what means he by this? Can not the people of God be holy & sanctified unless they separate from the churches as the Brownistes do? or can they not give glory unto God without their separation? we see the contrary throughout the scriptures; the, * Ps. 43. 1. 2 3. 4. Esa. 1. 10. Ma●. 26. ●7 Act. 3. 1. holy Prophets, the holy Apostles, and jesus Christ that holy one of God did keep a holy communion among open obstinate sinners and glorified God thereby and this also in a church that was far more corrupt than that reformed church from which this Delescluse hath schismed and run away▪ 6. Unto his other allegation, that all those that call upon the name of Christ should depart from iniquity, 2. Tim. 2. 19 It may also be answered as the former that the most holy servants of God, most zealous of his glory have kept communion which open sinners as offensive as 〈…〉 the church of England, & yet departed from iniquity: It is a great 〈◊〉 in schismatics that cannot distinguish betwixt departing from iniquity and departing from a church where iniquity is tolerated. christ 〈…〉 iniquity of the Pharisees and Sadducees and and yet departed 〈…〉 fellowship of that church, where in they remained. 7. THe second reason which he alleges for his writing of this treatise is the fervent desire which (he saith) he hath of the salvation of men's souls and the gaining of them unto God, If this be so (as he boasteth) we do praise and commend him for it, but yet if he had been as sober and modest as he is fervent, he would not have been so forward to praise his own fervency, in that we commend him not, nor yet in this, that he seems to seek the salvation of men's souls by leading them into his schism or separation. 8. IN the declaration of this second reason he tells us that the means of saying souls is to show unto the their erring from the truth and from going astray out of the way, jam. 5. 19 20.: But how unfit a man is jean delescluse for such a purpose? Do not all the Brownistes generally know and consider how prone this man is to run into error and to go astray out of the way before many others? Among all their Prophets is there any which in the exercise of prophecy have so often been corrected for error as this man? His manner is indeed to be fervent and hot, but in his heat so rash and inconsiderate that often he utters erroneous things and often by Mr. johnson and Daniel studly hath he been reproved and convicted of the same. He that hath so often received open shame and rebuke for his error is not so meet a man to become the censurer of so learned and judicious a writer as Mr. Brightman is generally acknowledged to be. 9 THe third reason which he allegeth for the publishing of this treatise, is in respect of himself, having had a hand both in the translating and printing of Mr. Britghtman his book etc. But of this he may speak with shame enough in respect of his unfaithful dealing herein: for being appointed by his masters that set him on work to print this book & that without any leave to comment upon it or to add his censures, what doth this cozening companion but goes & causeth his gloss to be printed in the margin of this book? He there lets down in opposition unto Mr. Brightman, his contradictions of him, his interrogations, his exclamations against him O England etc. O Brightman etc. Yea his citations of him unto judgement, let God and his angels and all the world judge etc. And thus without the consent or licence of those that employed him in their business, he defaces & disgraceth the work committed unto him, offendeth his masters, wrongs the reader, & iniurieth the author of the books who now sleepeth in peace with the Lord: But when this his deceit was found out, those that were at cost & charges for the printing of this book did then call him to account for this his bad daaling & in fine compelled him at his own charges to take the pains to alter and set over again those sheets of the book which he had corrupted & defaced with his marginal gloss & then to leave out those gloss which he had before so boldly & deceitfully inserted in that work: for the evidence & truth of this matter we have both the testimony of those that set him on work, as also his own handiwork to reprove him, viz. the misprinted sheets, the tokens of his deceit, which we keep by us for a monument of his falsehood. The truth is that jean Delescluse did fret & chafe when this rebuke was laid upon him, but howsoever part of his punishment was remitted unto him, yet was there no remedy, diverse sheets must needs be printed again & he must endure the pain & labour for the setting of the same: And thus we may see the saying of the wise man to be verified in him, The deceitful man costeth not that which he took in hunting, Prov. 12. 27. The wages which he got by setting those sheets deceitfully at first was not so much, but the labour the loss & the shame withal which he had at the reprinting thereof may well be thought to be much more. 10. IN the declaration of this his third reason, he tells us of his full persuasion that there be errors & abberrations in Mr. Br. his book & therefore addeth further; If I had held my peace and said nothing I could not have cleared myself from partaking with other men's sins; and so should have done contrary to that holy commandment of the apostle to Timothy, 1. Tim. 5. 22. According to this profession of conscience, if it be unfeigned in him, it may be further demanded of him. 1. Why did he not also put forth some short writing against the latin edition of Mr. Br. his book, seeing he the same jean Delescluse had also a hand in the printing of it heretofore? That book in latin hath been out now these diverse years; & never till this time hath he cleared himself by any writing against it, so long therefore he may seem to have partaken with an other man's sin. 2. Whereas Mr. Th. hath hath had a hand in the printing of Mr. Robinson's book against Mr. Bernard, & there being in it diverse errors & aberrations from the truth of the living God, & this not only in the judgement of Mr. johnson who hath openly protested against the manifold errors therein, but also in the judgement of Mr. Ainsworth himself & his company, how comes it now to pass that Mr. Th. hath not the like care & conscience to put forah some short writing against that book as well as Delescluse against Mr. Br. his book? why doth not I. Delescluse call upon his fellow in like manner? why doth he suffer Mr. Th. to partake with Mr. Robinson's errors by printing his book? 3. Whereas this jean Delescluse was heretofore a cardmaker, seeing he hath had a hand in making those cards that are the books of gamesters & idle persons seeing many persons might be offended & scandalised by the use of those playbooks, why hath he not had the conscience to put forth some short writing against those books of vanity? why is he not afraid of partaking with the sins of those gamesters whose hands have handled the cards that were the work of his hands? Why did he never yet clear himself of this evil? A good conscience is without * Ps. 119. ● 128. 1. Tim. 5. ●1. partiality & seeks to prevent one offence as well as an other. What can he answer to these things? when he hath answered these things, we have sundry more such like to demand of him. 11. BEsides his partiality above noted, mark his folly also in this dealing, for if it were no sin to have a hand in the printing of Mr. Brightmans' book, then what need he to seek the clearing of himself by writing against the book: if it were a sin to have a hand in the printing thereof, them how foolish is he to think he could by an after testification clear himself from that sin which he did first willingly commit? If this were a watrrantable course why might he not still follow his old trade of cardmaking & then afterwards clear himself by witnessing & writing against them? why might he not also make idols or images & afterwards clear himself from partaking with the sin of idolaters by testifying against them? Behold here the extreme absurdity of the Brownistes who condemn our communion where we duly testify against the evils committed by others whiles they think to justify themselves by testifying against those evils in the committing whereof they themselves have a hand. 2. In a due testification against evil, the testimony ought to be as large as the evil, the plaster ought to be as large as the soar; but Delescluse is uncertain whether his writing (which he counts a plaster for the errors and sores in Mr. Br. his book) shall ever spread so far as Mr. Br. his book, & therefore it must needs be folly and sin in him that shall voluntarily and wilfully publish such things which he accounts as stumbling blocks laid before the blind, while he is ignorant whether his labour shall ever come so far as to help the removal thereof in many places. 12. IN the subscription of his Epistle he under writes thus Thine as thou art the Lords jean Delescluse, that is to say, Thine as thou art a Brewnist and a separatist, for all the promises of God and of salvation, they do oft appropriate unto those that separate: Those only they declare to be the lords as touching their visible estate: Therefore howsoever he would seem to profess friendship, it is but hypocrisy: beware of such fiends. 13. LEt us now come from his Epistle to the book itself, where in he takes upon him to show how corruptly Mr. Brightman hath taught that the church of England is not to be separated from not withstanding all the sins and abominations that are in the same: This point he sets down both in the title of his book and in his Epistle again, as the butt or white at which he means to shoot, against this make he bends his bow and prepares his arrows upon the sting: And for the proof of this point he sets down ten special speeches which Mr. Brightman hath uttered touching the corruptions of the church of England. The first speech he * Advertisement pag. 5 allegeth are these words of Mr. Brightman, I could not but mourn from the bottom of my heart, when I beheld in her Christ loathing us, and very greatly provoked against us. Here upon jean Deslescluse inferreth thus: Pag. 8. 9 I desire the reader to observe the word which he useth of Christ loathing them, which word of loathing seemeth to be taken from the 95. Psal. vers. 10. Where the Prophet speaking in the person of the Lord himself, saith that forty years long he had loathed that generation: saying that they are a people erring in their heart and not knowing his ways, wherefore he swore in his wrath that they should not enter into his rest. So that by Mr. Brightmans' own grant, this church of England is in no better estate than were these rebels in the wilderness, all which were consumed and entered not into his rest as he had sworn. First, Answ. 1. this inference of Delescluse is utterly false, for though Mr. B. should grant the same phrase to be used both of England & Israel, yet doth it not follow by this grant, that England is in no better estate than those rebels in the wilderness; for the holy ghost often useth over & the same general word or phrase touching diverse sinners which yet not with standing may not therefore be all alike so condemned, but that some of them may be in better estate than others: for example, it is said that the Lord was angry with Israel in the days of jehoahaz, 2. kin, 13. 3. It is also said in the like phrase of speech that the wrath of the Lord was kindled against Israel in the days of David, 2. Sam. 24. 1. Doth it now follow that Israel in the days of David was in no better estate then in the days of jehoahaz? The contrary is most evident & plain, Israel being at one time a true church & at th' other a false church by the * R. Clift. answ. to Mr. Sm. 154. 155. H. Ains. counterp. pag. 7. 8. confession of the Brownistes themselves: It is said in one general phrase, I hate all false ways, Ps. 119. 128. Now it is one false way to be hated or loathed that the high places were retained in the days of jehoash & others 2. kin. 12. 3. & 14. 4. It was an other false way that the golden calves & Baal were worshipped by the kings of Israel: doth it now follow that these people were one of them in no better estate than the other, because the phrase of hating or loathing might be used against both of them? Nothing less. To come nearer unto them; Mr. Robinson accounting it a false way & a violation of God's ordinance in Mr. Ainsworthes company that they have no separation of their aims among them, it follows hereupon that in his account also the word of loathing or hating may be used against them, seeing every false way retained is to be loathed; And further Mr. Robinson holds it a false way & order of government that is practised in Mr. johnsons church, which is therefore also to be loathed by them: Doth it now follow from hence that by this grant Mr. Ainsworthes company is in no better estate then Mr. johnsons, because of the same word of loathing attributed unto both of them? Nothing less. The matter being thus made plain unto them, the simplest among them may see, what a corrupt & blind manner of reasoning is here used by their elder Delescluse. Secondly, 2. suppose it were granted that the church of Tsrael were in no better estate than Israel in the wilderness, yet what is this to the scope and purpose of his book? Doth this prove that the church of England is therefore to be separated from? Nay, the contrary appeareth hence, seeing it is undeniably true that even Israel in the wilderness notwithstanding all their abominations which the Lord loathed were yet a true church and communion with them was lawful, as appears in the example of Moses, joshua, Aaron and other faithful servants of God remaining among them; And therefore so might it be with England also though being in no better estate. And thus the same arrow that he shoots at us returns upon himself and pierceth the side of his own separation. 14. IN the next place he proceeds & labours to persuade his reader, that the Lord hath more just cause to wath the church of England, then that of the Israelites in the wilderness: Well, suppose now, that this also were granted unto him, would this prove that we should then separate from England? In no sort; for the Lord had more cause to loathe the church of Israel in the days of Christ, then in the wilderness, And yet even then also there was a lawful communion with that church when the measure of their iniquity was greater, and when there was a greater than Moses to convince them of that wickedness: And thus we see how that still he comes short of the mark he shoots at, seeing greater abominations than those of Israel in the desert are yet no sufficient ground of separation. 15. FOr the further declaration of this matter, ●dvertis. ●ig. 9 let us a little examine his particular instances here alleged by him, first (saith he) that church had a true ministry, and true offices and officers, and so hath not the church of England by Mr. Brightmans' own grant. First, ●nsw. let it be considered how unworthy a thing it is, that this man which is himself an usurper and a false officer should thus take upon him to dispute about the ministry and the offices in the churches of God: for first, when he was yet with Mr. johnson, he was then a false officer, that whole company being in schism & therefore a false church yielding no lawful officers; 2ly, suppose Mr. johnsons company had been a true church, and he a true officer in it yet seeing he hath now schismed from that company, and was also deposed from his office by Mr. johnson and his assistants, how can he in this schism be reputed a true minister? 3ly, when he was yet a member of the french church and did there earnestly seek an office, after trial of his gifts he was repelled and judged insufficient and unmeet to be a minister: Now then shall he that was both Kept out from entering into an office as unworthy, and again thrust out of an office as unworthy after he had entered, and this both by a true reformed church and by the Brownistes themselves, shall this unworthy person come now and in the mids of his unworthiness pronounce sentence touching the truth or falsehood of offices & ministries in the church? Secondly, 2. let it be considered, how he abuseth & wrongeth Mr. Brightman in saying that the church of England hath not a true ministry, offices & officers & that by Mr. Brightmans' own grant: for though Mr. Br. do justly complain that the church of England wanteth some offices which it should have, & again that it hath some officers which it should not have, yet doth he not affirm a true ministry to be altogather wanting, he doth not deny but that there are some true offices & officers therein. Thirdly, 3. though there be that defect in the ministry of the church of Engl. which Mr. Brighman noteth, how doth Delescluse prove from thence, that separation must reeds follow? for this he brings not so much as any show of proof from the scriptures to justify such a consequence 16. THat second particular exception which he bringeth touching persecution by the officers in the church of England is again repeated by him in his tenth speech of Mr. Brightmen which he allegeth & is there answered, for which see the 38. section following. 17. THe third particular difference which he affirmeth to have been betwixt Israel & Eng. is, that their government in Israel was not a mixed government partiy of the Egyptians, partly of the Moabites and Edomites or Cananeans, but simple and and pure according to the true pattern showed to Moses in the mount; but that of England is not so, for Mr. Brightman affirmeth it to be partly Romish and partly reform etc. First, Answ. 1. if it be true that Mr. Robinson writeth, viz. that the church officers, the priests & levites in the jewish church to whom the charge of the whole congregation for the service of the tabernackle did appertain, had no authority by the order of their office to inflict any censure spiritually upon the people, but only to interpret the law ett. Answ. to Mr. Bern. pag. 198. then is all this idle which Delescluse doth here speak of their government: If the ecclesiastical officers did exercise no government at all, then is it in vain to dispute of the purity of a thing that was nothing. Secondly, 2. if that excommunication or dissynagogueing noted joh. 9 22. was but a jewish devise and without warrant of the scriptures, as both * Answ. to to Mr. Ber. pag. 187. Parallel. pag. 61. Mr. Robinson doth write, and Mr. Smith also hath written before him, than was the government of the jews a devised government, an Impure and mixed government, partly divine and partly human; and yet not with standing this mixed government we see there was then a lawful communion; that mixture of devised government was no ground of separation, as this Delescluse would vainly collect against Mr. Britghman and against the church of England. Thirdly, 3. if a mixed government be a ground of separation, then is Mr. Ainsworthes company to be rejected seeing it doth exercise a popular confused and mixed government, consisting partly in the power of the officers, but chiefly in the power of the people: And thus the collection of Delescluse serves to overthrow his own government: And the shame of this their mixed government which Mr. johnson hath affirmed to be worse than the goverement of the church of England, doth in this respect lie the more heavily on them in that Mr. johnson hath also in a printed book condemned the same, which book the Ainswort hians have not yet answered. 18. THe fourth particular instance which he bringeth to prove the difference betwixt Israel & England is this: None of that church (saith he) were admitted unto any office but only such as were lawfully called thereunto as Aaron was, Answ. but so it is not in England etc. First, it is only the bare affirmati of Delescluse that saith of the church of Israel that none were there admitted unto any office but only such as were lawfully called as Aaronwas; where is his proof from the scriptures where of he boasted in his Epistle. Secondly, 2. it is a false affirmation of Delescluse, for when Annas & Caiaphas did interchangeably execute the high priests office, as appeareth Luk. 3. 2. joh. 11. 51. it was not possible that both of them could be lawfully admitted unto the execution of that office which was peculiar unto one man during his life. Thirdly, seeing Mr. johnson hath offered to prove unto Mr. Ainsworth & his company that in their popular government they are like▪ 3. unto Korah & his company ambitiously usurping an office whereunto they are not lawfully called & that upon the Korites ground, Numb. 16. 3. it had been much fitter that Mr. Ainsworth or Delescluse should have defended & cleared themselves of the evil which they lay upon others by writing against Mr. johnson about these things while he is yet alive to auswer for himself, rather than to wri●e against Mr. Bright man that is dead & now resteth from his labours in the Lord, especially seeing Mr. johnson hath so often entreated, provoked & urged Mr. Ainsworth thereunto & that openly in their congregation, before the rent was made: Yea besides respect of the matter itself, are they not specially bound for their old covenant sake to show the franciscans their error & that by writing rather than to deal with strangers. 19 FRom these instances above mentioned he draws a terrible conclusion on this manner, Advertis. ●ag. 9 Therefore it doth necessarily follow that the estate of the church of England is worse than was the estate of those rebels in the wilderness, & that there is nothing to be expected from Christ, by any member thereof, but a pouring out of his eternal wrath upon them. In this peremptory sentence which he denounceth against the church of England he takes on him as if he would seem to be one of those seven angels which having their breasts g●●ded with golden girdles do stand with the vials of God's wrath in their hands to power ●ut ●is vengeance on the wicked, Answ. but the truth is he is rather in this his doom like one of the angels of Satan that accuse the brethren condemning those whom God hath iusti●yed: By this sentence he doth at once extinguish & quench the whole light & comfort of the gospel, which teacheth that there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ & believe in his name, Rome 3. 28. and 8. 1. For such believes there are many in the church of England holding that doctrine of faith & justification whereby the faithful & the saints in all the reformed churches do hope to ente● into life everlasting, & that whereby the Brownistes themselves must be saved if ever they enter into glory: Now to denounce the aeternal wrath of Christ to those that have true faith, what is it else but to abolish the gospel, to destroy faith & to make it of no effect? If an angel from heaven should come & preach unto us as Delescluse here hath done, yet ought we not to receive him, Gal. 1. 8. But here the Brownistes object that true faith shows itself by works, Ob. which (they say) are apparently evil in the church of England. First, Answ. ●. their faith showeth itself by these fruits, by their joy in the Lord, their continual study & delight in the word of God their continual invocation of the name of God every day, their delight in the Sabath, their love of the godly for the truth sake, their unfeigned sorrow for their sins, their patience for the testimony of Christ, & sundry other such like fruits which are the undoubted & certain tokens of true saith, Ps. 89. 15. Ps. 1. 2. joel. 2. 32. Esa. 56. 4. 5. 6. Mat. 10. 41. 42. Mat. 5. 4. 10. 11. Secondly, 2. suppose other of their works be evil▪ suppose also that their refusal of separation were a sin, yet seeing it cannot be thought other than a sin of ignorance & that God had not opened their eyes in this matter, what an absurd & wicked thing is it in this estate to pronounce of them all without exception, that there is nothing to be expected from Christ by any member thereof, but a pouring out of his aeternal wrath upon them, for who can understand his faults and who is it but that he sins of ignorance, and why not in the mystery of the separation as well as in others, especially it being such a point as the members of all other true churches can not comprehend the same? Not with standing such errors the members of the church of England may be upright with the Lord and accepted of him and made partakers of eternal salvation, Ps. 19 13. 1. Cor. 13. 9 with 1. Cor. 1. 30. Ps. 32. 1. 2. But to salve or mitigate this their unchristian and hard sentence, they tell us that in such manner of sentences and judgements they speak respectively, Except. Ans. to Mr. jac. pag. 7. 8. viz. that the faithful in England cannot be accounted true Christians in respect of their ministry, in respect of their constitution, in respect of their estate, being so considered etc. In this exception the Brownistes do show their vanity in seeking out frivolous pretences to colour their rash judgements; Answ. 1. for first, when as true and ●ound judgement is to be given touching the estate of a Christian and an heir of salvation, he is then to be considered not by the halves or by some such and such respects only, but wholly and entirely with all his respects together. And so a faithful man considered not apart from his errors and ignorances but considered together with them and with his faith is yet to be judged and that absolutely a true Christian & an heir of salvation, suppose there bosom manifest errors and offences upon him yet his faith showing itself in other manifest fruits thereof is a visible cover for all his offences, seeing the Lord hath manifested in his word that faith alone doth justify and lay hold on everlasting righteousness, Gal. 2. 16. and 3. 7. Eph. 2. 8. and therefore such a one in his outward estate and profession is still a visible Christian notwithstanding any other visible iniquities wherein he ignorantly continueth. Secondly, 2. when Christ at his last coming shall pronounce judgement, he will not consider men apart from their constitution, ministry, government etc. he will not say in such respect I condemn thee and in such respect I do justify thee and save thee, but he doth absolutely pronounce sentence either of salvation or condemnation, And this judgement of the Lord is generally manifested in his word & according to his word will he judge at the last day, joh. 12. 48. Mark. 16. 16. and therefore according to this word of the Lord the estate of of men is absolutely to be declared without such respective considerations and exceptions. If the question had been only about the reproof of some particular sin in any person, or about the comparing of one person with an other than might they have judged herein respectively; for the man that is a true Christian may in some respect be worthily reprehended & may in some respect be unlike unto others; but when the question is about the judgement of a true Christian & about his obtaining of salvation, then are such partial & respective considerations idle & of no use: A man is in such case either absolutely to be condemned or absolutely to be justified & acquit. Thirdly, 3. according to that respective judgement, every church yea every person in the world should be condemned & stand under the wrath of God, because every church & every person doth err & commit sin & in that respect being considered apart from Christ is accursed, And according to this respective iudment of the Brownistes, Delesculse in respect of those eleven corruptions which they lay upon the reformed churches (supposing they were justly imputed unto them) might in like manner accordingly have pronounced of them all, that there is nothing to be expected from Christ, by any member thereof, but a pouring out of his eternal wrath upon them, seeing no sin is in itself venial, all sins with out f●●th in him do bring eternal wrath, as well one as an other. And in like manner Mr. johnson holding the same corruptions in the reformed dutch & french churches, Answ. to Mr. jac. pag. 7. 8. might in this respect say of them all as he * saith of England, that they stand all subject to wrath, God imputing this their sin unto them. For any one of the least sins do make men subject to wrath God imputing the same unto them. Lastly, 4. Mr. johnson (as he telleth us himself) whensoever he uttered his hard sentence against the church of England did always speak with caution and added some of these clauses, being so considered, in that estate, in that 〈◊〉. But here Delescluse without any caution or clause of consideration shuts them up all under eternal wrath, makes his arrows drunken with the blood of souls, & will needs have them all to drink the cup of indignation from his hand with no less sin & drunkenness of error then when he had drunken that cup of magis whereof jacob johnson is said to have admonished him, he doth in this place as vainly condemn the faithful for no sheep of Christ, as he did then commend the same jacob johnson to be a fit pastor for his sheep. 20. THe second speech of Mr. Brightman alleged to show that he doth corruptly teach against the separation is this, Advertis. pag. 5. & ● viz. that the most mighty king Henry had expelled the pope, but retained the popish superstition. Note here the folly of Delescluse, Answ. that would prove a separation in one time by the corruptions & superstitions of an other time: as though he should say: In king Henry's time there were many superstitions, therefore in Queen Elizabeth's time there ought to be a separation notwithstanding all the reformation that was procured by her means: what sober man would so argue? 21. further, whereas Delescluse saith that the pope cannot properly be said to be expelled when his doctrine and superstition is retepned, it is a vain Cavil, for first, if he stand so precisely upon propriety of speech, the pope can not properly be said to be expelled, no not then where his doctrine and superstition is expelled; It is a figurative speech to note the popish doctrine and superstition under the name of the pope himself. 2ly, it is yet a true and a fit speech in Mr. Brightman to say that the pope was expelled when the jurisdiction of the pope and the supremacy formerly annexed unto his person was denied and rejected, when he was no longer acknowledged to be the head of that church, when that which was unjustly arrogated unto the person of the pope was translated unto the person of the king as it was in King Henry's days: even as the venetians at this day might very fitly be said to expel the pope, if they would utterly deny his supremacy both in civil and ecclesiastical causes, howsoever they might retain many popish superstitions. 2. THe third speech of Mr. Bright man which he brings against him to prove a separation from the church of England is this, ●●vertis. ●5. & 10. that there is such a form of church established as is neither cold nor hot, but set in the mids and made of both, etc. These words Mr. B. uttered in comparing the church of Laodicea & England together, ●●sw. as the type and antitype unto one an other; That which he saith of England he takes from Laodicea which is also declared to be neither hot nor cold, Rev. 3. 15. 16. so that by this manner of arguing he might as well prove a separation from the church of Laodicea in respect of the lukewarmness which the holy ghost shows to have been found therein. But that it is most erroneous so to reason, Christ plainly teacheth us while he tells us that this church was still a golden candlestick, that the angel thereof was a star in his right hand, & that he himself would still sup & communicate with that church; And therefore so also may the church of England be reputed not with standing the same or the like luke warmness. 23. WIth this third speech he desires that this which he hath set down for the fifth charge may be joined, where Mr. B. saith, that no other cause can be brought of their lukewarmness, the popish government mingled with the pure doctrine, than the love of riches and honours. And what can he conclude hence? ●nsw. What though they were covetous & ambitious given to the love of riches & honours & so became lukewarm? shall this be a just cause of separation from the church? No; for the scribes & Pharisees were also covetous & ambitious, Mat. 23. 5. etc. Luk. 16. 14. & yet communion with them was lawful. 24. HE desires further that this complaint of lukewarmness may be compared with that praise of reformation which Mr. Br. gives unto the church of England in the title of his epistle dedicatory: Well, being compared with the same it may well stand together with it, for reformed churches may yet have lukewarm ministers & many other grievous corruptions to be complained of: yea doth not Delescluse condemn himself in this matter? for doth not he also in the title of his book & in his epistle written to the English readers entitle them with the name of godly reader and Christian reader? And is there any god ●ine● without reformation? Is there any Christian that is not reform? Why then may not Mr. B. call those holy & reform whom Delescluse doth call godly and Christian? 25. HE demands still in the same place & saith; Is it possible that holiness and unholynes can reign together? We answer; Yea, in one & the same church in the diverse members thereof, as in the church of the jews, holiness reigned in Christ & his disciples, unholynes reigned in the scribes and Pharisees etc. 26. HE yet demands again & saith, Is there any communion between Christ and Anti-christe? between light and darkness? between Idols and the true God? Can any kingdom, any church, any family, any man submit unto the government of Anti-christe and not be defiled. We answer, though Christ & Anti-christe be enemies, yet the servants of Christ may lawfully communicate in that church where many abominations of Anti-christe are to be seen, sor as francis wingrave a Brownist doth truly acknowledge, Answ. to Mr. Stone, pag. 2. Every abomination of Anti-thriste doth not make a church to become Anti-christian for the best churches are subject to error and some abominations of Anti-christe, were crept into Christian churches whiles the Apostles lived: And yet communion was lawful therein. Even so the children of light & the children of darkness did communicate together in Christ's time: As for Idols if they be no other than set forms of read prayer and such like, which the Brownistes call idols, communion with them is lawful enough: And for government though Caiaphas was an Anti-christian usurper, yet did many persons lawfully submit unto his power: Thus hath God himself and his Prophets, Christ and his Apostles taught us both by their word and example and therefore let Delescluse hear the Prophet Esay which he allegeth, turning unto him and saying unto the maintainers of schism, woe unto them that call that communion evil which the Lord hath showed to be good and lawful. 27. FRom a fourth speech of Mr. Br. he reasoneth thus: Advert●s. pag. 10. Moreover in his fourth charge where he maketh the state of the poor blind Papists far better, than the condition of the angel of the church of England, and that also such as are the angels such becometh the church for the most part, I do observe that by his own doctrine the estate of the church of England is worse than Babylon itself, which Babylon is granted by all to be that Synagogne and church of Anti-christe devoted unto destruction etc. First, ●●●w. 1 he falsmes Mr. Br. his speech by adding a degree of comparison which Mr. Bri●ghtm. used not in saying that he makes the estate of the poor blind papists far better: It had been far better for Delescluse to have to have omitted that clause, & to have repeated Mr. Brightmans' comparison simply & truly with out such addition; but it seems he he favours his own cause more than true dealing. secondly, 2 he corrupts & falsifies Mr. Brightmans' speech again by saying that he makes the estate of the poor blind papists far better, than the condition of the angel of the church of England as though Mr. Brightman had spoken generally and without exception touching the whole ministry of the church of England, whereas even by Delescluses own * ●dvertis. ●●g. 5. former allegation of the words, Mr. Br. speaks of those angels, who bewitched with ambition and covetousness do refuse holy reformation, where yet also he leaves out the word only being a word of restraint used by † See lati●●●e edition ●f Mr. B. ●●n kev. cha 〈◊〉. vers. 15. ●ag. 106. Mr. Brightman of purpose to prevent the cavilles of such honest men as this Delescluse here shows himself, Mr. Brightman saith that Christ in this place preferreth the blind papists, only before those angels, who bewitched with ambition etc. And thus the double falsehood of Delescluse appeareth not only in adding but also in omitting that which was most significant and specially to be considered. Thirdly, 3. suppose Mr B. had spoken generally of the whole ministry in England, yet is the observation of Delescluse most false & vain. It would not follow thereupon, that the estate of the church of England is worse than Babylon itself as he gathereth; for even touching those angels bewitched with ambition and covetousness, refusing holy reformation, Mr B. speaks not simply & absolutely of them that they are worse than the papists, but only in respect of the greater grace & light which they have received for their reformation, for so he doth also explain himself in the same place; Mr B. knew well enough that the angels or ministers of the church of Room (besides other greater evils) are also bewitched with ambition & covetousness & do therefore refuse holy reformation etc. only he noted them to be something more excusable in respect of their ignorance because they knew not their masters will so as those in England do: we may here fitly tell Delescluse in Mr. Ainsworthes words; 〈…〉 He may much abuse any man's words if that which is spoken respectively, he will take and allege as spoken absolutely. What though the Lord do in some respect prefer Ch●●tim & Kedar before Israel jer. 2. 10. 11.? May it be observed hence that the estate of Israel was simply worse than those heathens, or that Israel was to be separated from rather than they? The papists are in some respect worse 〈…〉 follows it not hence that they are simply & absolutely worse. 〈…〉 of the Ainsworthians that they are worse than the Fran●●●scanes in respect of their contention, unquietness & disorder, doth it follow hence that he accounts the Ainsworthians to be simply the worse & rather to be separated from? Nothing less. By these examples let Delescluse learn to see his folly in ga-thering such observations. 28. AFter this false recital of Mr. Br. his words together with his false observation upon the same he makes this question in the * Adverti●● pag. 10. same place. 〈◊〉 where are then those great praises of all manner of blessings upon that church rehearsed in the second artickle, but chiefly these spiritual blessings of the word purely and sincerely taught in it. First, Answ. 1. for those earthly blessings whereof Mr. B. spoke, why might they not be found in that church of England, suppose it had been every way worse than Room? How blind is Delescluse that makes this question so far from the purpose? Secondly, 2. as for the spiritual blessings of the word purely taught, seeing Mr. Br. doth blame but some of the ministers of that church, why may not the word be purely and sincerely taught by others that are free from the blame there spoken of? 29. A Seventh speech which Delesc. Adver●●. pag. 11. bringeth from Mr. B. against the church of England is this that naughtiness reigneth in it, the hand of God is heavy upon it; and again, that in her the laws of Christ are not kept. Hence he inferreth; But what is there then to be done, even this that every soul who hath any care of salvation and of escaping the eternal flames of everlasting damnation be careful to come out with speed from Babylon etc. This conclusion of separation which Delescluse here gathereth & denounceth under pain of eternal flames of everlasting damnation is vain, Answ. 1. for first all that Mr. Br. here saith of England might also most truly be affirmed of that church of the jews where in Christ did communicate for there, 1. naughtiness reigned & prevailed in the Herod's, in the priests, elders, scribes, Pharisees & Sadducees &c. Mat. 2. 16. and 12. 24. and 14. 9 and 16. 12. 21. 2ly, the hand of God was heavy upon them in their manifold oppressions & miseries which they endured under the government of the Romans & their substitutes, Mat. 2. 16. and 3. 10. and 17. 24. etc. Luk. 13. 1. and 2. 1. joh. 11. 48. 3ly, the laws of Christ were not kept there Mat. 15. 3. joh. 15. 20. 22. And now by the sentence of Delescluse, eternal flames of everlasting damnation must be the portion of Christ & his Disciples that communicated with that church, who will not detest such vile conclusions, which are like unto arrows shot even against the breast of Christ jesus himself? As he that makes himself mad casteth firebrands, arrows and mortal things prov. 26. 18. so Delescluse in this place casting abroad his firebrands of eternal damnation, shooting his arrows against heaven, & throwing mortal things even upon the Lord of life what doth he else herein but declare himself to be a mad man? & why might not this his book which he entitles an Ad-vertisement be much more fitly entitled a Mad-vertisement. Secondly, all that Mr. Br. affirmeth in this place touching England hath been affirmed by the Brownistes themselves touching one an other: 2. so that Delescluse may here see how he hath kindled a fire to burn up himself & his own company: For 1. that naughtiness reigneth among the Ainsworthians it may appear by the testimony of Mr. johnson who hath oft in public witnessed of them as of dross or chaff which the Lord with his fan would purge out from them, under that name of chaff the the holy ghost doth declare vuto us the wicked among whom nanghtines reigneth Ps. 1. 4. Mat. 3. 12. As for the franciscans (besides many other grievous things) some of Mr. Ainsworthes company do testify of them, that probable murder and approved whoredoms are tolerated or maintained among them; Delescluse himself is noted for one of the witnesses. Expos. of ●●at. 18. ●●pist. 2ly that the hand of God is heavy upon them appeareth manifestly by the * notable testimony of Mr. johnson himself: 3ly that the laws of Christ are not kept among them of Mr. Ainsworthes company Mr. johnson testifieth touching their government, & Mr. Robinson touching the administration of their deacons in that they have no separation of their alms: Thus Delescluse by his own manner of reasoning doth enwrap himself and his company in the flames of damnation, yea in eternal flames of everlasting damnation. 30. further Delescluse to prove a separation from that church where naughtiness reigneth doth allege that saying of the Apostle, he which coupleth himself with an harlot, is one body, 1. Cor. 6. 16. But this allegation (though repeated * again by hiu as a special ground of their separation) is nothing to the purpose; ●dvertis. ●ag. 14. the apostle there meaneth that he which coupleth himself with an harlot by fornication or whoredom, that person defileth himself by his wicked act; for otherwise it was lawful for a man to couple himself with an harlot by marrying with her, as we see in Salmon and Rahab, Mat. 1. 5. with Josh. 6. 25. The priests indeed were forbidden, even by marriage to couple themselves with an harlot, Lev. 21. 7. 14. that others were so forbidden we read not. But as for joining in communion with a church where naughtiness reigned, it was not forbidden, no not to the priests themselves, from Aaron to Zacharie we never read or any godly priests, that did ever separate upon such a ground a Delescluse doth here pretend. 31. WHereas again Delescluse noteth that as concerning the outward blessings of peace and prosperity in earthly things, Advertis. pag. ●1. by it no church, no man can have any assurance to be in the favour of God etc. This note is idle, neither hath Mr B. alleged outward prosperity as a mark of of a true church and Delescluse doth abuse Mr. B. by insinuating unto the reader such a matter, for to what end should he else oppose the fame? In this note Delescluse doth so fight as one that beateth the air fight with his own shadow and so offendeth against the example of the Apostle, 1. Cor. 9 26. 32. IN the next place to comfort his reader against the tediousness of his short writing he tells us, that he will now begin to draw to an end concerning his charges etc. and that he will draw the rest into a short sum: But what needed he to do so, if there had been any soundness in this his so short a writing? hath he not already hasted & posted so fast on that he hath forgot his reckoning? for whereas in the beginning of his book he hath numbered out ten charges or testimonies of Mr. Brightman touching the corruptions in the church of England & hath also * Advert pag. 3. & ●… promised to declare his mind concerning them, notwithstanding this, forgetting his method propounded at the beginning, forgetting his promise made unto the reader, as though he could not count ten, so hath he left out one of his number & hath not showed us his mind touching the sixth testimony of Mr. B. which he alleged at first: Thus we see he makes more haste then good speed: Could he not run except he skip with all by leaping quite over the matter which he propounded & promised to handle? 33. COme we now unto the eighth allegation which he bringeth from Mr. Br. against the church of England touching some constitutions and ordinances in the same, Advertise p. 6. & 1●… on this manner; excellent ordinances indeed; for which the reformed churches may be ashamed. First of all observe here his ignorance in the mistranslation of these words; Answ. 1● for as it is signified unto us by sundry that have more learning than our selves or this Delescluse, these latter words of Mr. B. prae quibus erubescant reformatae Ecclesiae are not to be translated as here they are set down by Delescluse but in a quite contrary sense; prae quibus signifying not for which but in comparison whereof the reformed churches may be ashamed, And as these two speeches are quite contrary, if we should first say thus Delescluse hath written such things for which Mr. Ainsworth may be ashamed and then again on th● other side to say, Delescluse hath written such things in comparison whereof Mr. Ainsworth might be ashamed, for the first of chief speeches doth declare how ill he hath done to make his fellows ashamed, the second showeth how well he hath done to shame his fellows that they can not imitate him, even such difference is there betwixt the speech of Mr. B. truly translated, and betwixt the ignorant translation thereof by Delescluse in this place. And herewithal is to be noted that as there is an jronie or figurative speech in the fi●st part of Mr. B. his testimony, where he speaketh of excellent ordinances, even so also he speaks by the contrary when he tells us in the latter part thereof, how the reformed churches may blush thereat, as though they had not the like ordinances, but in the translation of Delescluse this jroine is not to be found. He tells us in his Epistle how he hath had a hand both in the translating and printing of Mr. B. his book, that so he might be found guilty of all manner of falsification, 1. false printing and glozing as is noted before. sect. 9 2ly, false allegation as is showed before sect. 27. 3ly false translation as in this place, 4ly, false interpretation & collections throughout his book. Secondly, what if the reformed churches may be ashamed of the corruptions & 〈◊〉 in the church of England? 2. will this prove the * special thing intended by Delesculse in his writing & in his allegation of Mr. Br. his speeches? ●dvertis. ●●pist. p. 3. will this prove that Mr. Brightman taught corruptly when he said that we ought not to separate from the church of England? Nothing less, In the time of Christ the jews had many wicked traditious, ordinances & customs for which the godly might be ashamed, and yet they might not then separate: The churches of Ephesus & Smyrna might well be ashamed of the manifold corruptions in other of their neighbour churches in Asia & yet without separation. We ourselves have often seen such things in the Brownistes for which all that profess the name of Christ might well be ashamed, we have seen their contentions, disorders & confusion's so great, that even the jews, the professed enemies of Christ being neighbours unto the Brownistes and dwelling hard by them & perceiving their bitter dissensions & divisions have laughed them to scorn & pointed at them with the finger: Thus have they been a scandal and an offence both to th●se with in & without the church: And now therefore according to the reasoning of Delesclnse they are for this to be rejected & separated from. 34. DElescluse in his amplification of this foresaid speech makes a large complaint against the reformed churches, ●dvertis. ●●g. 12. showing that they may be ashamed because they have not dealt so sincerely and plainly with the church of England for reproof of corruptions in the same, etc.▪ In this complaint observe first, Answ. 〈◊〉 how absurdly Delescluse dealeth that being to reprove the dutch & french churches writes against them in English which they can not understand; why did he not also write against the church of England in french or dutch? Secondly, note here how he breaks his promise: he promised immediately before to be brief & to bring that which remained into a short sum; 〈◊〉 & yet he is now more large and ample in laying out this testimony of Mr. B. then in any of the former. In this dealing it seems he scarce knew or cared what he said or did. Thirdly, let the reader know that the reformed churches have plenteonsly testified against the corruptions of the church of England contrary to that which Delescluse doth here pretend: 3. for a taste hereof to omit other things we desire the reader but to look upon these three books, viz. Abridgement of the book delivered to his majesty by ministers of lincol. etc. The answer to D. downeham's sermon; the scholastical discourse against the sign of the cross, wherein may be seen the pregnant and abundant testimonies of learned men in the reformed churches both against the hierarchy or prelacy and also against the superstitious ceremonies remaining in the church of England, as namely Calvine, Beza, Musculus, Bucer, Martyr, Bullinger, Aretius, Zanchius, Mornaeus, junius, Sadeel, Piscator, Polanus, Vrsinus, Virel, Viret, Grinaeus, Bucanus, Goulartius, Danaeus, Olevian, Zepperus, Lubbertus, Bastingius, Snecanus, Keckerman, with a number more, who as they have testified against the corruptions maintained by the prelate's on the one side, so have they testified against the separation & schism maintained by the Brownistes and anabaptists on th' other side: In so much that both they which plead for the prelacy and they which plead for separation do in like manner esteem and hold the ministers of the reformed churches as their parties and adversaries, see D. Down hams defence, lib. 1. pag. 197. and H. Ainsw. counterpoy. pag. 15. 35. A Ninth speech of Mr. Brightman alleged by Delescluse is touching the names of the officers of that church, Advertis. p. 7. & 12▪ 13. that they were unknown unto the church of Christ, except the bishops etc. where upon Delescluse infereth in these words: And what is this? shall then any soul in whom there is but a very small sparkle of the fear of God, be so bold as to dare submit under the government and guidance of such unlawful ministers and ministry? Yea verily, Answ. 1. we see those souls that had very many and great sparkles of the fear of God have submitted themselves under the government and guidance of unlawful ministers, neither hath Delescluse here brought any sound reason to show the contrary: We see that in Christ's time there were diverse officers whose names had not been heard of in the primitive church of the ●ewes, no● ever were instituted by any example of former times in that church, as namely the names of of lawyers, scribes of the people and according to the writing of of the Brownistes, the names of Archisynagogues, or rulers of the Synagogues. Secondly, 2. it is evident, the godly may lawfully submit themselves unto the government & guidance of such private brethren, who in respect of their sects, factions & superstitious observations have had ●uch names as were formerly unknown unto the church of God, who also in respect of their wickedness deserved to have their names ●lotted o●t of the register of the saints, This we see in the communion of the godly with the scribes & Pharisees: And therefore if it be lawful for Christians to submit themselves unto the counsels, admonitions & rebukes of those which for their sin ought to be cast out of the church of God & yet are unjustly retained: If a man may stand under the guidance and authority of such admonishers, so long as he testifies against their sins, then may he also stand under the government & guidance of unlawful officers: If a man may submit himself unto one who is unlawfully a member of the church, why not also unto him who is unlawfully a minister of the church? If a man may submit himself in private unto the guidance of an unlawful brother, then why not also unto the public guidance of an unlawful officer? There is more proportion betwixt a member & a minister then betwixt a member & an excommunicate or an heathen, or one that ought to be excommunicate: For example, Daniel studly & jean Delesculse being both of them deposed from their offices for sin imputed unto them by the Franciscane Brownistes, suppose they were still obstinate in the sins imputed unto them deserving excommunication, & yet tolerated unlawfully, in this estate being not judged nor cast out by their church their admonitions for sin either in the first or second place were not to be rejected: And if their private admonition might be submitted unto, why not their public also if they had not been deposed? If in the want of due excommunication the private admonition of an unlawful member is of force & to be submitted unto, then in the want of just deposition the public admonition or other works of government exercised by unlawful ministers is of force & to be submitted unto: This reason is specially to be considered of those Brownistes that maintain the popular government & submit unto the same. 36. But Delescluse adds his reason why such unlawful ministers are not to be submitted unto: Advertis. pag. 13. For saith he: Are they not all thiefs and robbers which enter not in by the door but climb up an other way? And will any man of wisdom commit unto the protection and and keeping of thieves the least part of his worldly goods? No, none wild so unwise for every one ●ndweth that they will but make a pray of them and spoil and rob them? And shall any than be so careful for things of so small importance and shall he not care unto whom he doth commit the guidance of that which is the principal, Answ. 1. namely of his soul? First, we do directly affirm that which Delescluse doth so flatly deny▪ Many men of wisdom may & will & aught to commit unto the protection & keeping of thieves not only the least part but the greatest part of their worldly goods: For all tyrants a wicked rulers that oppress & spoil their subjects are thieves & robbers, Prov. 28. 15. Esa. 1. 23. Hos. 5. 1. Mic. 3. 1. 2. etc. Yea these great thiefs are in diverse respects more vile than other outpurses or then th●se that rob by the high way side, Yet unto the protection & keeping of these tyrants men both of wisdom & godliness may & aught to commit both their lives & their goods; Those which teach men not to submit unto such are guilty of rebellion & treason; Though Saul was a tyrant & an oppressor 1. Sam. 8. 11. etc. Yet was submission unto him lawful & necessary, men of wisdom did lawfully commit themselves & their goods unto his protection. Thus the ground of Delescluse his argument is taken away. Secondly, 2. men of wisdom may & aught also sometimes to commit the guidance of their souls unto thiefs; for all false stewards & unfaithful ministers that teach not the flock of God but keep back his counsel are indeed thieves also & steal the word of the Lord from their neighbours, jer. 23. 30. 1. Cor. 4. 1. 2. And such thiefs there were many in Israel, such were many of the scribes & lawyers in Christ's time, Mat. 23. 13. etc. Luk. 11. 52. And yet our saviour requires his servants to submit unto such, to hear their doctrine, though with this caution to beware of their leaven, Mat. 16. 12. Men might lawfully receive their sound doctrine, while they discerned that which was erroneous & took heed of the same. The scribes in their corrupt and wicked administration or execution of their office were notorious thieves; & a thievish administration is as bad as a thievish entrance, & yet we see the ministry of such might be submitted unto. Thirdly, 3 if the ministry of thiefs and robbers may not be submitted unto, then may not the ministry of schismatics be submitted unto, for schismatitiques that steal away themselves and others from the communion of of the faith full are in this respect no better than thieves: And therefore by this his own argument the ministry of Delescluse is not to be submitted unto, because as a schismatic he hath stolen away himself both from the reformed french church of old and again of late from the Franciscane Brownistes, who being formerly in his account a true church, how could he so renounce and disclaim their communion without schism? 37. YEt further he brings here a ground of scripture oft abused by the Brownistes to prove their separation in these words: Advertis pag. 13. Let them alone therefore for as our saviour saith/ they are blind leaders of the blind: and both of them shall surely fall into the pit. The letting alone here spoken of by Christ is to be understood in respect of the offence which the Pharisees took unjustly at the words of Christ that the Disciples should not be troubled therewith, ●nsw. 1. as appeareth Mat. 15. 12. 14. Our saviour by his example did there teach us to testify against corruptions as he himself there did against the traditions of the Pharisees, vers. 3. 7. etc. But as for separation from such guides our saviour saith nothing, yea that he meant no such thing it appeareth evidently by the communion which he and his Apostles did afterwards still retain in that church not separating from the same. And though they were in many things blind leaders, 2. yet not so far as that simply to hear them was unlawful, but to follow them blindly with out examining of that which they said by the word of God, such heedless and undiscreet hearing and following is forbidden, to hear them as the Beraeans heard Paul was not unlawful. And if blind guides are to be taken heed of, 3. than we do further appeal unto the conscience of the indifferent reader whether it were a safer thing to submit unto the teaching of Mr. Brightman or of Delescluse his censurer, to hear such as M. Perkins, Mr. Greeneham, M. Phillips & such like teachers or to commit their souls to the instruction of Thomas Cocky, John Hales, Francis jesop and such like blind guides as do lead both Mr. Ainsworth himself and his whole company, Let those that know these two sorts of guides consider duly of the matter. 38. THe tenth speech of Mr. Brightman he setteth down on this manner, Advertis. 〈◊〉. 7. & 13 finally the angel of the Church of England is both a pexsecuter of the brethren and a deceiver of the prince. Whence he inferreth with an exclamation, Marvelous, and is he still for all this the angel of the Church in Mr. Brightmans' judgement? In mine doubtless he is altogather otherwise, even that angel of the bottomless pit, who is a king over those locusts etc. The ministers of the jewish Church in Christ's time were both persecutors of the brethren and deceyvers of the princes and Governors, ●●sw. 1. and yet were still the angel of that Church. They persecuted Christ and sought to murder him, they seduced Pilate and brought him against his own conscience to condemn Christ, Luk. 23. 23. 24. Yet was not separation required, neither yet did the faithful reject their communion. Secondly is not the angel of the separation both a persequ●tour of the brethren and a deceiver or the prince? 2. Yes certainly, for the first 〈◊〉 ●hey persecute one an other both in word and deed: Their hard speeches of one other are manifold, they scorn one an other and laugh at one an other. They do also mutually judge, condemn, and excommunicate one an other: for the second point, of deceiving the prince, it is most evident in special in their apology dedicated unto the king's majesty, wherein as much as in them lay, they have sought to draw him unto error: This appeareth by Mr. johnsons own confession and recantation wherein he hath recalled sundry of his errors contained in that book: But the Ainsworthians do still persist notwithstanding the admonition given by Mr. johnson: So that by this reason the separatists themselves are to be separated from; we see hereby how the piece of ordinance wherewith they shoot at others doth recoil upon themselves & wound their own communion. 39 NOw remains the conclusion of this writing to be considered, Advertis. pag. 13. 14 where after the rehearsal of Mr. Brightm. his words declaring their wicked and blasphemous error, who do so fall away from this church as if Christ were banished wholly from hence etc▪ Delescluse doth then cry out against him; And so by this what soever sins, errors, wickednesses, abominations he hath showed before to be both in the angel and in the church itself, all is now cured by this salve: 〈◊〉 most miserable daubing with untempered mortar. First, note his false dealing and abuse of Mr. Br. as though he had said or meant that all the sins, Answ. 1. errors & corruptions of the church of England had been cured & salved by this his testimony against the separation; as though he could not have reproved the schism of the Brownistes from the church of England, except he had allowed all the corruptions therein; whereas on the contrary we have showed how vainly and senselessely Delescluse hath trifeled to prove a separation from the allegations and testimonies of Mr Brightman above noted: Yea even in this very place Mr. Br. telleth us in express words that we may neither take▪ pleasure in them as some maintainers of those corrup do, neither may we forsake and fall from the church as the Brownistes do, he shows in the same place that he wisheth health of mind unto both these sorts that are in a contrary extremity: And this his wish shows that he thought these co●●uptions still to be uncured, & therefore is he most injuriously charged with the contrary by Delescluse. Secondly, 2. as for his exclamation of most miserable daubing with vntem●●●ed mortar it is a notable instance of the impudence of the Brownistes, who in the mids of their ignorance, do so boldly open a mouth against the learnedest ministers in the churches of God: And much more justly may it be returned upon Delescluse his own head, whose consequences & collections for separation from Mr. Br. his speeches are all of them untempered mortar & all his reasoning a most mise●●● daubing: The iniquity of this his exclamation may easily be seen in this that he doth not refute Mr. Br. his reasons alleged in this place but passes then over in silence: Mr. Br. shows of Laodicea that though the angel thereof was miserable and poor and blind and naked yet communion was lawful, Christ still supped with the same, he shows withal that though the like misery be also found in England, as being the Antitype of Laodicea, yet that there is a presence of Christ communicating with them, which he proves further from the experience of the Brownistes themselves compared with the scriptures Rom. 10. 13. etc. Rev. 3. 20. It had been fitter for del. to have given a sound answer unto these reasons then with a sound of words to have made so loud an exclamation. Thirdly, 3. by the private and public confession and testimony of Delescluse there is a miserable daubing with untempred mortar among the Brownistes themselves, for this Del. hath often avouched and affirmed that there is but one sound warrant and example in the scriptures to stay men from anabaptism, namely the example of the apostate Israelites that were not recircumcised when they joined again with judah in the worship of God, were it not for this example, Plea for infant's, p. 〈◊〉 49. etc. ●●rief treat. ●●●gt anaba. 〈◊〉. 16. etc. he saith that he himself would be rebaptized: If this be true that he saith, then is both Mr. Clifton and Mr. johnson a miserable dauber seeing they † both have used many other arguments and a multitude of scriptures against rebaptisation: If there be but one sound argument, than all the other are unsound and false, and consequently untempered mortar: Now these other reasons being used by the franciscans while he was yet among them, why did he not testify against their unsound doctrine and convince them of their error? how could he endure to see such a number of holy scriptures perverted, falsified and abused by Mr. joh. and Mr. Clift. and yet hold his peace? how could he suffer them to give so great advantage unto Mr. Smith and other anabaptists by alleging against them so many colourable pretences and shadows of reason wherein he thought there was no substance? What sincerity is there in the course of these men that see one an others daubing & yet wink at the same? Why may we not think that Delesc. doth now also discern and behold some daubing in Mr. Ainsw. Tho. Cocky, joh. Hales and that he winks at it as he did before in Mr. joh. and Mr. Clifton? Thus may we here see touching Delescluse the only governing elder of the Ainsworthians, that as there is but one step betwixt him and anabaptism by his own confession, so is there never a step betwixt him and the path of hypocrisy; he that sees his fellows daubing with untempered mortar and lets them alone in their sin, must needs be a miserable dauber himself, he that professeth himself a separatist from all known sinners, and yet sees his fellows sinning openly in print, by abusing the scriptures in great measure and still continuing in this offence and yet tolerates them herein, how can he be esteemed otherwise then as an apparent hypocrite? 40. ONce more he yet renews his former reasoning and exclaiming & saith unto us: Adverti●…. pag. 1●. Can any preach in the office of an angel purely and sincerely who is a thief and a robber? shall any administer purely who is not lawfully called thereunto as Aaron was? Can any unlawful minister administer lawfully the seals of God's covenant unto dogs and swine purely and sincerely? O cease to do evil, learn to do good! God who is jealous etc. For the substance of this objection it is twice answered before, Answ. section 18. & 36. yet for the further stopping of his wide mouth that without cause talketh so much of thieves, robbers, unlawful ministers, dogs, swine etc. we do here demand of him, can any preach in the office of an angel purely, and sincerely who is an apostata and hath for saken the most holy faith as H. A. in the account of all the Brownistes hath done? Can any administer purely who for their schism have been deposed from their ministry continuing still in their schism as H. A. and this Del. have been? Can the seals of God's covenant be administered purely & sincerely unto such as are rejected as dogs & swine, unto such as William Clerk, Richard Benet, George Parker etc. who for their sin & wickedness are excommunicated by Mr. johnson & his company & consequently esteemed as dogs & swine though yet retained in communion by Mr. Ainsworthes company which by this means in the judgement of the Brownists themselves is become a sty of swine & one body with excommunicates? shall those who by the franciscans are accounted unworthy to gather up the crumbs under their table, become stewards of the house to break the bread unto the children of the Ainsworthians? shall those that are judged unworthy to hear the word, be allowed for prophets to preach the word? Yet thus it is in Thomas Cocky and john Hales, who being by Mr. johnson & his company delivered unto satan are yet set up for prophets by Mr. Ainsworth and his company to draw men from those snares of Satan wherein themselves do lie enwrapped. 41. AFter this he seeks to lay two great sins upon Mr. Brightman for charging them with blasphemous error etc. And first, he would show him to be a persecutor of the brethren & that in these words; Advertis. pag. 14. for what greater persecution could he put upon those poor souls which have separated themselves from those evils by himself set down, then to accuse or charge them of blasphemy? Yea it is such a persecution as that it is unto death, for by the law of God a blasphemer must do. First, Answ. 1. it is no sin of persecution to impute blasphemy unto those that justly deserve the same, for Luke and Paul and james did charge sundry men with blasphemy and yet were not to be accounted persecutors for the same as may appear, Act. 18. 6. 1. Tim. 1. 20. jan. 2. 7. And seeing Delescluse hath not proved Mr. Brightmans' accusation to be unjust upon them, he can not justly charge him with persecution. Secondly, 2. suppose Mr. Br. had been a persecutor of the Brownistes in this speech, yet is he not a persecutor of the brethren so as Delescluse chargeth him, & so as Mr. Br. noted the angel of the church of England to be in persecuting their brethren that do remain in communion with them, because the Brownistes neither in their own account nor in Mr. Br. account are brethren, but such as separate from the fellowship of the faithful brethren. Thirdly, 3. suppose Mr. B. had been a persecutor of the brethren, yet not unto death as Delescluse doth write, for the law of God doth not simply and generally require that every blasphemer should die as this ignorant and inconsiderate person doth affirm by his false application of the sentence of the law unto Mr. brightmen speech: The law requireth that he which curseth his God and blasphemeth the name of the Lord shallbe put to death Lev. 24. 15. 16. but beside this high degree of blasphemy, there were many kinds of blasphemy not punishable with death by the law: Every reproach, slander & evil speech either of a man's brother, or any part of God's truth may justly according to the scriptures be called blasphemy as hath been signified & showed unto us from these places, Mat. 15. 19 Eph. 4. 31. Tit. 3. 2. 2. Pet. 2. 12. Jude, 10. And who will say, that all these sins were to be punished with death by the magistrate? Fourthly, 4. suppose Mr. B. had persecuted them to the death, yet might there have been a greater persecution contrary to that which Delescluse by his question doth here pretend, in saying, what greater persecution could he put upon those poor fowls etc. for there are diverse kinds of death, some are more painful & shameful then others & some persons are more to be detested in death than others; And those that do unjustly lay upon men the vilest death are greater persecutors than some others that yet put men to death also: And in special many of the Brownistes are greater persecutors of us then Delescluse dare yet for shame pretend against Mr. B. for diverse of them blush not to say that we have sinned against the holy ghost, that no place of repentance is left unto us and all this for testifying against their schism: Now blasphemy against the holy ghost being greater than other blasphemy, Matt. 12. 31. Luk. 12. 10. It may hence appear that they are greater persecutors of us, then Mr. Br. is of them, seeing in their blind and rash mood they charge us with greater blasphemy, then Mr. Br. doth them. Lalstly, 5. if imputation of blasphemy be persecution unto death, then are the Brownistes themselves deadly persecutors of one an other: for to omit manifold other proofs hereof, they do mutually testify of one an other as of false churches: Mr. johnson & his company say of Mr. Ainsworth & his company that they are a schism and no true church: Again Mr. Ainsw. & his people do reject Mr. johnsons company, yea diverse of the Ainsworthians do affirm of the franciscans, that they are worse than the world: If some other● should thus speak of them, they would account them uncircumcised Ph●●●nes, railing on the host of the living God, See 〈◊〉 of 〈…〉. * blaspheming the name of the Lord & his tabernackle etc. And thus to bring the collection of Delescluse upon his own pate, we may say unto him according to his own reason, who be greater persecutors of the Brownistes than they themselves are mutually unto one an other? Do they not seek one an others blood in making one an other blasphemers? The saying of † job. 20. 2● 25. Zophar the Naamathite is verified upon them: The bow of steel striketh them through, the arrow is drawn out & cometh forth of the body & shineth of their gall: The Gall of their own persecution, the arrow of their own objection woundeth their own sides & is coloured with their blood, so that here we may also apply unto Delesc. that which Mr. Ainsworth once * wrote against Mr. Smith, Ans. to M● Sm. pa. 4● How Delescluse is snared in the work of his own hands & in his own objections, is worthy to be noted with † Higgaion Selah, Psal. 9 1● & meditated to the praise of God. 42. THe second sin which he layeth upon Mr. B. is this to be a deceiver of the prince, Advertis. pag. 14. which he notes in this particular for writing against them: And how he hath also deceived the princes, he and others of his mind by causing them to banish and keep in banishment their most loyal and faithful subjects. For deceiving the prince which he objecteth, Answ. 1. let him know that though Mr. Brightman had more particularly pleaded against them and for their banishment also, 2. yet had he been no deceiver therein, let Delescluse prove this his consequence. As touching the causes of their banishment, Rob. Brown. H. Barow. Fran. johnson H. Ainsworth john Smith john Robinson etc. it is chiefly to be laid upon those that have been the * he goats of the separation: These by their deceitful reasons & persuasions have misled & seduced many simple persons and have sought out reasons of banishment and misery unto many by leading them unto schism: Let those that are yet alive bewail their offence herein. Thirdly, seeing the Brownistes themselves do now mutually abandon one an others company why do they blame others for doing such things as themselves do practise? 3. Their rejection of one an other is now more grievous than banishment, whiles they banish one an other from the pledges & seals of God's covenant▪ Yea the church of England shows more favour and kindness unto the Brownistes than the Francis●anes & the Ainsworthians do unto one an other, whiles they do both reject those that are present at the worship or ministry of th' other, & do also refuse many of them to eat one with an other: Do they not now by their own example teach the magistrates & princes under which they live to reject & banish them also? Fourthly, 4. whereas the Francis●anes do now profess that at May next they purpose to remove their habitation & to go & dwell at Embden, diverse of the Ainsworthians do affirm that they have so behaved themselves in the place where they now dwell that they are ashamed to tarry there any longer, & therefore that it is time for them to remove and to be gone thence: If these things be so then is it not the deceit of Mr. Br. & others of his mind to procure their banishment as Delescluse objecteth, but it is the shame of their own wicked conversation that doth banish the Brownistes & drive them from one place to an other. Fiftly, 5. to make it plain & evident what mind the Brownistes have to banish one an other, let us here consider what the Ainsworthians have * written against the franciscans & given unto those arbiters appointed by the magistrates for the hearing of their strife about their meeting house: ●ee profa●● eschisme ●f Brown. ●ag. 81. A way of peace by these themselves propounded and by the church of Leyden and us agreed to, these after reversed and stood not unto unless we would go dwell out of the city: And although in the treaty of the agreement, it was testified by the elders of that church, that unless it were to the apparent undoing of us and of our families, we should not be dismissed again to dwell here: Yet because we would not absolutely promise to leave this city, they would not stand to the agreement which themselves had made. Besides the accusation of falsehood, & covenant-breaking here noted, observe also the cruelty of the franciscans in seeking to banish the Ainsworthians & to have them out of the city (as they complain) though it were to the apparent undoing of them and their families: Is not this a merciless kind of banishment that is sought by them? do they not herein take one another by the throat with their unpitifull hands? May we not here see the truth of the wise man's saving; Prov. 28. 3 * A poor man if he oppress the poor is like a raging rain that leaveth no food? Yea the raging oppression of the Brownistes tends to their apparent overthrow & undoing even by their own confession. And therefore as Delescluse throughout his advertisement doth draw his collections from Mr. Br. his words against the church of England, even so may we 〈◊〉 better reason condemn the Brownistes out of their 〈…〉 Thus may we shoot with the Brownistes in thie● own bow, & wound them with their own arrows. Lastly, 6. besides the degrees & kinds of banishment above noted, we do here demand of the Brownistes both of the franciscans & Ainsworthians, what they would do if they had a magistrate according to their minds, such an one as they have often wished for; would they not then banish one an other persisting in those courses which they do now condemn mutually in one an other? 〈◊〉 them answer us plainly & sincerely unto this question & then doubt we not, but even thereby also further to stop the mouth of Delescluse that is here so vn●●●ly opened with complaint against Mr. Brightman. 43. HAving thus set down the sins of Mr. B. he comes in the next place to set down the virtues of his own schismatical flock, Advertis. pag. 14. in these words; And indeed although I am but a stranger unto them and one of an other people, yet the truth caused me to speak thus in their behalf, that I know not any people at this day under the sun more loyal and faithful unto their prince and country, and more zealous and religious towards God, than they are: First, Answ. 1. being about to sound the trumpet of their praise, for defence of his modesty he tells us that he is but a stranger unto them and one of an other people; but this is not enough to excuse his flattery & boasting, for though he be a stranger unto them as he is a french man, yet as he is a Brownist & a schismatic he is one of them, & therefore notwithstanding his different nation may be as partial in praising of them as any other of them & above many of them, in that he is an elder, a governor & a prophet among them: It had been much more for their credit if some other of their neighbours had praised them, but this they want being esteemed both of the magistrates & ministers of the reformed churches to be a contentious sect; And therefore while Delescluse being incorporate into their schism doth thus extol his friends & brethren, it may justly be said unto him: Pro. 27. 1. * He that praiseth his friends with a loud voice rising early in the morning it shallbe counted to him as a curse. Secondly, 2. for the length of his comparison, in that he saith, he knows no people under the sun more loyal etc. how vain & foolish is this? Though he know none in the east or west Indies more loyal than these, this is nothing to their praise because he knows not those nations at all, nor many other far nearer which are yet all under the sun: And thus this large comparison is nothing else but the loud noise of an idle commendation. Thirdly, 3. for their commendable loyalty and faithfulness unto their prince and 〈◊〉, how doth it appear? by what good token or argument can be demonstrate the 〈◊〉? Yea the contrary rather might be showed by diverse instances of sundry of them who have deceived and 〈◊〉 both the prince of 〈◊〉 own country of his right & the governors of these countries wherein they now live of their due also, insomuch that some being taken in their deceit & in their presumptuous transgression of the laws have smarted for the same: And where then is their singular loyalty & faithfulness? Fourthly, 4. for their zeal of religion where is it? doth it not vanish into the smoke of contention? Yea is it not confessed by many of them, that they neither feel in themselves nor see in others that zeal & comfort thereof which they felt & saw before their separation? For this also we could allege sundry witnesses of themselves besides our own knowledge. 44. But he proceeds yet further to amplify his commendations & praises of the zeal and religion in the Brownistes which as he saith are seen in them and among them both privately and publicly: ●●vertis. 14. Yea in such measure as that I am fully persuaded that they are and shallbe if they continue faithful unto the end, that people by which chiefly Antichrist the man of sin shallbe rooted out. Behold here the proud conceit that the Brownistes have of themselves without all reason, ●●sw. 1. it is much that such fantasies should enter into the head of Delescluse, it is more that they should be rooted therein with such full persuasion as he speaks of, it is yet more that he should not be ashamed to utter, yea & in print to publish this his arrogant opinion, but most of all that his fellows & his brethren should allow or tolerate in him this strange dream or vision of vanity: for whereas the Lord in his holy word hath noted unto us those honourable instruments by whom chiefly Antichrist is to be overthrown, we desire Delescluse to show unto us where the Brownistes are numbered among them: We see in the book of the revelation that as the Lord in sundry visions hath there declared unto us the special instruments whereby Antichrist was to be exalted, so hath he also in other visions there described unto us those worthies and blessed instruments by whom chiefly he is again to be cast down: By the consent of the best and learnedest interpreters there are noted out unto us in the Apocalyps diverse estates both ecclesiastical & civil that have wounded Antichrist, but no interpreter that ever yet could find the Brownistes among them: We read of diverse angels fight against Antichrist, Rev. 14. 6. 7. 8. 9 And these do fitly declare unto us such as john Wickleffe, john Husse, Hierome of Prage, Martin Luther & such like, but where be the angels that may five represent unto us Robert Browne, H. Barow, Francis johnson etc. We read of diverse that have obtained sundry victories, conquests and triumphs against Antichrist. Rev. 11. 15. 16. and 14. 14. 17. and 16. 1. and 17. 16. For the further understanding whereof we desire the reader to consider & weigh Mr. Brightmans' exposition of those places; But where is the lot and room of the Brownistes? Were is their achievement registered among these chief instruments of the Lord? Secondly, 2. whereas he tells us that this his full persuasion depends upon a condition viz. If they continue faithful unto the end, whereas also Mr. johnson & his followers do now in the account of Delescluse slide back from their ancient faith & are already proved unfaithful, Mr. Robinison also halting betwixt them in some things, these things duly considered the full persuasion of Delescluse may quickly turn into a faint persuasion and his vain confidence into a wan-hope. 45. THe reason of his glorious persuasion touching the Brownistes he setteth down in these words: Advertis. pag. 15. For by that purity of doctrine which they do teach and by the sincere and public administration of the glorious kingdom of Christ publicly and before all the people; as also by professing that glorious liberty in the gospel, that if any sin be showed or manifested unto them by the word of God, is amended whatsoever opposition may be to the contrary, by those things I say by them professed practised and taught, it is impossible that where they have place, Antichrist can or have any door to come in. First, Answ. 1. for their purity of doctrine, they have no grounds of pure doctrine which other churches of Christ round about them have not as well as they, Why do they exalt themselves in that which others have as well as they and before them? Other churches have this doctrine also in better and more abundant manner than they; 2. for H. A. I. Delescluse, Thomas Cocky, john Hales and such like prophets do not teach the pure doctrine with half that purity, grace, power & fruit that the ministers of other churches do. Besides their ignorance, 3. their doctrine is diverse ways impure & mixed with sundry errors, new doctrines & faiths leading unto schism & confusion & is therefore in part recanted by Mr. johnson. For their glorious liberty in their public administration the anabaptists may boast thereof as much as they, 4. seeing the anabaptists are as public in their administration as the Brownistes and the brownistes are but followers of them therein as they are also in the most or all those things, wherein they differ from us. For their sincere administration thereof against all opposition whatsoever as he boasteth, 5. how vain is it? Before the schism of the Ainsworthians from the franciscans, ●●nting 〈◊〉 fox, 〈◊〉. 1. the sins and * scandalles of Daniel Studly were showed and manifested by diverse of the Ainsworthians & yet such opposition was made against them as that Da. Studly did neither sound repent nor lose his office from which he is now deposed: That which the popular government could not then effect, is now effected since that government was changed by Mr. johnson. Whereas he saith that Anti-christe cannot have any door to come in, where those things by them professed and practised have any place, 6. it is also false: for suppose the doctrine and discipline of the Brownistes were both of them pure, even as pure as in the apostles times yet might Antichrist find a door to come in by, as well as he did in the time of the apostles, where there were better means to keep him out, than the Brownistes now have, see 1. joh. 2. 18. 2. Thess. 2. 7. Suppose the Romish Antichrist have no door to come in by among the Ainsworthians, 7. yet while they open a door to the anabaptists to come in among them, profane ●●hisme of brownist. ●ag. 80. what availeth it? That such a door is opened by them see the testimony of the * franciscans, who charge Mr. Ainsworth and his company with this evil. 46. MOreover he addeth further in praise of the Brownistes: Advertis. 〈◊〉 15. And for my part I do bless the day in which I had that grace from my God to know both the people and their faithful walking in their ways and religion of God. If a stranger meet with this book of Delescluse he may be diverse ways deceived by him in this deceitful speech: Answ. 1. for if he know not that the Brownistes are broken and rend in the mids falling one from an other, then by this false report of Delesc. he may be drawn to think that the Brownistes do faithfully cleave unto one an other and walk constantly in their ways without schisming from one an other, which is most untrue. And further again if a stranger do know that they are rend a sunder, 2. and yet withal know not of what side Delescluse is, then shall the stranger be left in uncertainty not knowing whether he mean the franciscans or Ainsworthians to be that faithful people, hereafter therefore let Delescluse learn to speak more plainly and to avoid his deceitful speeches; for aught that he hath here written he might be taken for a Franciscane and so his faction might lose that praise of faithfulness which he intendeth for them. 47. DRawing to an end he seals up his book with this prayer for the brownistes; Advertis. pag. 15. I beseech the Lord of his grace even with tears that he vouchsafe to open the eyes of their most noble and wise prince that he may see the justice and equity of their cause and cause them to see his royal face and presence again with joy and gladness of heart under his dominions and jurisdictions, Amen. In this prayer or form of prayer, Answ. 1. observe first how he dishonours the Lord and takes his name in vain by praying for the manifestation of the justice and equity of their cause which is so full of injustice and iniquity: As Saul took the name of God in vain by his blessing the Ziphims for their show of compassion which indeed was cruelty 1. Sam. 23. 21. So doth Delescluse by blessing of the brownistes for the equity of their cause which is indeed a mere iniquity. Secondly, 2. mark here his vain publishing of his own devotion & zeal, viz. his praying with tears, yet is it no sound commendation of himself while his tears are spent in such a cause: Delescluse may remember since he was a Papist that many of those idolaters in their superstitious devotion do often times weep & power forth their tears before their idols & images: As those tears can not justify their devotion, no more can these tears powered forth by Delescluse for the idol of their separation justify his devotion. Thirdly, 3. mark his flattery of the king calling him their most noble and wise prince: It is the property of true nobility to try the spirits of men by the scripture, as the beraeans did Act. 17. 11. If therefore he be noble and most noble they will not deny but that he hath examined their spirits & the scriptures alleged by them & presented unto his majesty in their petitions; & then withal if he be most wise how is it that he can not see the mystery of their separation having their chief reasons & proofs laid open before him? Yea by the sentence of this Delesc. there is nothing to be * expected by him from Christ but the pouring out of his aeternal wrath upon him, Advertis. pa. 9 & 11 nothing as touching his visible estate but aeternal flames of everlasting damnation, If this be his abject & base estate, how is he most noble or most wise. Fourthly, 4. we do here demand of Delescluse touching this his prayer, whether it be lawful for any of his flock in the reading of his book & withal of this his prayer therein to lift up their hearts unto the Lord, to desire the same thing & to say Amen with him unto this his petition: If they may not, then is it a sorry prayer which may not be assented unto by an other, & then is he a sorry guide to go before his flock in such desires as it is not lawful for them to follow him; but if they may pray the same thing with him & in the reading of his words may say Amen unto his wish, then consider on th' other side how according to the doctrine of the Brownistes, he makes himself guilty of idolatry, for they tell us that read prayer and set forms of prayer are idols & the use of them idolatry, Mr. Ain●worth in special hath compared them to the golden calves that Ie●oboam erected, & if this be so then hath Delescluse here in the end of his book set up a golden calf by setting down this form of prayer & then all the Brownistes that in the reading thereof do lift up their hearts in prayer to desire the same thing, all these (we say) do then bow down unto his calf & worship the same and so commit idolatry. 48. HAsting to a final conclusion he saith; Advertis. pa. 15. And so ●do here end though many more things might be said touching separation from evil, and adjoining or following that which is good: Mark here how he paints the face of his separation, Answ. in calling it a separation from evil etc. whereas indeed it is a separation from that which is good because of some evil mixed therewith▪ & a rejection of the godly for the wicked sake which is a thing most wicked, Gen. 18. 25. Here he will end but it had been better for him not to have begun: He tells us many more things might be said touching separation, we tell him also that many more things may be said against the same: The judicious reader may easily discern that in all these arrows which he hath shot he hath still miss the mark, his bow of brass is broken & all his vain reasonings against Mr. Bright▪ are turned upon his own head: If he have more things to say hereafter let him see that they be of more weight than these. 49. LAst of all he addeth: Advertis. pag. 15. And in deed in a word we shall not read from the beginning of the world to this day that there was ever any true church of God truly established but by separation: and therefore this people not to be blasphemers but true worshippers of God. Behold here a heap of falsehood couched up together in a few words for a farewell to his reader: Answ. 1. For first, it is false which he saith of establishing churches by separation from the beginning of the world: Let him show how the church of God before the flood was established by such a separation as the Brownistes have in their writings described unto us: we have here his bare word only which is of no credit, his asseveration here used by him, viz. in deed in a word is but a word without deed & without truth. Secondly, 2. it is false which he saith of establishing true churches by separation unto this day: And this not only in respect of the church of England which by Mr. johnsons confession is a true church though not established by the separation of the B●ownistes, but also in respect of the dutch & french churches which by the Brownistes themselves are acknowledged for true churches & yet were not established by the separation in question: Yea they do reject & condemn the separation of the Brownistes as schism: Do these churches then practise and retain a separation without their knowledge, against their wills & contrary to their doctrine? Or if they do thus maintain a separation not being aware thereof, shall this unwitting & unwilling separation be a true ground & foundation of their church? shall their ignorant practice establish them & justify their estate? we would fain know of Delescluse how these things can stand sound. Thirdly, 3. suppose this assertion of his touching separation were true, yet his inference thereupon is false, in that he saith and therefore this people not to be blasphemers: Though a man hold separation yet may he be a blasphemer in many other respects: For example, Mr. Smith holding the separation of the Brownistes was yet a blasphemer for that which he wrote against the use of the translated & original scriptures in the worship of God. And so Mr. Ihonson still holding the separation is yet by the Ainsworthians accounted a blasphemer, one that speaks evil of the way of God, in respect of his new interpretation of Mat. 18. Delescluse reasons here as though there was no blasphemy but against separation, how blindly & partially let the reader judge. Fourthly, 4. he brings yet an other false inference from the former assertion, in saying, & therefore this people not to be blasphemers but true worshippers of God: for the former assertion touching separation is maintained by anabaptists yea & by some of the Arrians, doth it hereupon follow that they are true worshippers of God? Nothing less: Yet such is the fruit of Delescluse his reasoning▪ further whereas the Brownistes do acknowledge the dutch & french churches to be a separate people & true churches established by separation & yet condemn the read prayer used by them as being a false and idolatrous worship, it may hence appear evidently that his argument for proof of their true worship is very vain and false: He may here see that the truth of God's worship doth not depend upon separation. Prov. 12. 15. The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: But he that heareth counsel is wise. Errata. PAg. 3. l. 31. read things. pag. 6. l. 18. and to convert them from going 〈◊〉, p. 7. li. 15. dealing. pag. 11. l. 15. therefore. p. 13. l. 5. affirmation. p. 18. l. 15. for. pag. 19 in the margin read, ●ev. chap. 3. p. 19 l. 39 prefer pag. 25. l. 39 knoweth p. 28. l. 26. corruptions. pag. ●0. l. 17. for. pag. 35. l. 34. fuly. FINIS.