TWO TREATISES WRITTEN AGAINST THE PAPISTS, THE ONE BEING AN answer of the Christian Protestant to the proud challenge of a Popish Catholic: THE OTHER. A CONFUTATION OF THE POPISH churches doctrine touching Purgatory & prayers for the dead: by William Fulke Doctor in divinity. Imprinted at London by Thomas Vautrollie● dwelling in the Black friars. 1577. TO THE CHRISTIAN READER: WILLIAM FULKE WISHES GRACE. AND PEACE from God the father, and from our Lord jesus Christ. THE great brags that were made by divers Papists of this treatise of Purgatory that it was unanswerable, were so untolerable, that certain of my godly friends were moved thereby, to send the book to me, desiring me to shape an answer unto it. But when I had read it over, and found therein in deed much new railing, yet nothing else but the old fond kind of reasoning, I was altogether unwilling to deal with it, both because there hath been so much already written of that argument, and for that I thought, that our countrymen were now, as well by reading of that which hath been written before, as also by continual preaching against that absurd doctrine, sufficiently dissuaded from that blasphemous heresy of Purgatory. But when this excuse, or any other that I could bring, would not satisfy there earnest desire, who importunately still urged me to take the matter in hand, & that I had once again perused the treatise, I began to think otherwise of the whole case, than I did before. I considered that many there were, which perhaps had not seen, and many also that would not read, such books as have been written in times passed of this question, & that some also were so simple, that they could not discern this new disguised defence of the Catholic churches doctrine, from the old drowsy dream of popish Purgatory. Wherefore if any one of these, or any other that shall voutsalfe to read this answer, might thereby either be confirmed in truth, or reclaimed from error: I began to think it were sufficient cause for me to take the pains, and the pains so taken to be well bestowed. Again when I remembered the spiteful railing, and the most disdainful arrogance of Allen himself, together with the presumptuous boasting, and vain confidence, that some of his friends have in his writing: I confess it kindled that small zeal of godliness that is in me, both to meinteine the common hope of Christians, against the insolent assaults of so malicious and proud an adversary, and also to discover the infirmity & feebleness of that fortress, which these wilfully blind Papists do vaunt to be invincible. In which doing I have used great brevity, not only by a natural inclination, whereby I love to be short, in any thing that I wright: but also because my friends urged me, to dispatch it with so great expedition. And yet in this shortness, I trust I have not omitted any thing, that hath any shadow of reason or show of matter in it, but that I have sufficiently discharged it: as the diligent and attentive reader, I hope will confess no less. How be it neither my haste in finishing, nor my friends diligence in soliciting, was so great, but the slackness and untowardness of some Printers was much more. For where as it was ended & authorised almost two years a go, yet it hath stayed hitherto, until a godly and learned brother, who was once purposed to have answered the same himself, and cold full well and substantially have acquitted himself there in, if other business had not hindered him, moved of godly zeal, hath now at the last undertaken the printing thereof, and brought it to this pass as you see. I heard of late also of a third man, which had learnedly begun the answering of this book, how so ever he was letted from accomplishing the same. But how so ever Satan hath hither to hindered the setting abroad of this answer, yet God hath now at the length brought it forth: I doubt not but to his glory and the confusion of Satan in his members the Papists. I have thought good also to join unto this work, an other short treatise that hath lain by me these eight or nine years, written at the request of a godly and learned friend of mine, in answer to a proud challenge of the Papist against the Protestant which though at the first & many years after, I determined not to publish, supposing the same challenge to have been private, or in few men's hands, yet now of late, that I have seen it in diverse godly gentlemen's hands, to whom it hath been delivered by Papists, be like to pervert them, and of whom also I have been desired to answer it, & am further credibly informed, that the same is in print, & esteemed of many ignorant Papists to be so unaunswerable, that although it be protested by Gentlemen of great worship and credit, that they have seen the answer thereof in writing, yet they will not believe, that any man dare set his pen to the paper, once to attempt the matter. I have thought best to put it in print as it was written at the first. Nothing doubting by God's help, but I shallbe able to stand to that defence if the challenger will proceed to meinteine his challenge any longer. That I have coupled it with the answer unto M. Allens book, is because I do greatly suspect, that he was the author thereof, for the similitude of the styles and of the stomachs in both, at the lest I trust I do him no wrong, to suppose him to be so stout a champion. And thus I commit the Christian reader to the direction of God's spirit who voutsalfe to lead thee into all truth for Christ's sake. Amen. The faults of this impression are thus to be amended: The first figure signifieth the page, the second the line. In the answer of a true Christian, etc. Pag. 3. line 35. Lithuania read Lithunanda. 5.3. writing r. writings. 10.10. the scripture, read the book of scripture. 13.17. then, read thou. and line 19 you, read thou. 15. line the last. Tiberius. read Liberius. 19.4. you, read the. and line 10. Ca line. 58. read Carolines. 8. and line 19 Mercamas, r. Marranias'. 20.9. favour, read honour. 23.26. the prince, read the printers. 24.1. put out and. 25.9 not for his, r. for his. 29.10. unity of mind, r. unity of faith & mind. 30.3. in the places above rehearsed. in diverse places of his epistles, a● lib. 3. epist. 14. and 15.16. etc. 41.30. Rhein's, r. Rheims. 49.5. the thee, r. that the. & the 12. r. & the Catho. etc. 52.13. in British, read in the British. 63.14. about the articles, r. about the chiefest articles. 64.20. put out (that hold.) and the 24. here, rea. sore. 67.21. which can not, rea. which you can not. 68.4. in a name, read in a manner. 69.4. prorsus opinemur, r. prorsus non opinemur. and 34. universally, r. universality. and 36. which you do, r. which you do not. 70.17. proponenda, r. praeponenda. & 22. in a. r. in the. & 24. when. r. when the. 71.20. where, rea. were, and the 22. to, read in. 78.26. that you ●aw a bastard church, r. that you being a bastard church have. 87.34. Commentualls, rea. Conuentualles. 91.32. that he. rea. than he. 92.30. cultived, r. continued. 97.1. your, read yours. 99.13. there, rea. therefore. & 14. vinci, read vincè In the answer of a true Christian, etc. pag. 14. li. 6 for that, r. then. 22.21. conseites, r. conserves. 23.19. they made a cushion, read they made marriage a cushion. 25.37. fast, read fact. 26.37. canche, rea. couch. 30.35. greatest, rea. great. 31.1. read instruments for the defence. 46.33. for, read far. 47.30. sins, read sinner. ●9. 19. predicate, rea. prejudicate. 64.37. faultless, r. fruitless. 87.6. heavy, read hairy. 89.2. as, read or. 92.6. bitter, read better. 95.31. paltinge, r. pelting. 102.15. r. liklihodes numbered. 121.29. convenientes, read convenienter. 127.13. r. to death, & a sin not etc. & li. 28.10. rea. to. 139.34. unreconcyled, read that are reconciled. 143.2 you. read her. 151.27. & hath, rea. having. 156.5. can not, read can stand. etc. 205.29. to his brother, rea. to his brethren. 210.14. fast, read fact. ●24. 31. read & forsakers. 232.38. sorrowing, r. saying 238.10. claim, r. exclaim. 248.1. an, read any. 249.23. pray, read prayed. 255.19. Tecta, read Tecla. 259.37. toti, read hi. 262.7. after writings make a full point, & l. 10. Troianus, read Traianus. & 14. Barlaun, r. Barlaam. & 16. Ephraim, r. Ephreem 265.27. and 29. Rhenamus, read Rhenanus. 268.36. knaw, rea. knave. 277.17. should seem, read as it should seem. 283.2. Capth, r. Chapter. 284.30. after decree, read concerning that which was not etc. 286.31. put out he. 299.19. had, read hath. 295.11. xemia, rea. xenia. 307.8. mistrusted, read misconstrued. 316.2. you will, r. you will not. & 23. then, rea. thou. 334.19. criall, read trial. 335.31. put out, in. 347.1. same, read sun & right, read light. 350.6. r. & deceiveth etc. 361.16. unto, read in. 361.29. profatam, rea. profoctam. 364.31. we before, read before we. 378.17. vindicemus, read iudicemus. and line 37. either, read other. 373.11. string, r. springe. 374.10. Consilio Melevitano, r. Concilio Milevitano. 382.19. Common, r. Cannon. 386.31. degree, r. pedigree. 391.25. thou, read there. 396.1. God, read man. 397.24. hidden, r. sudden. 399.15. as for witness, read for witnesses. 406.6. the matter, read thy matter. 409.32. make a full point after in deed. and line 22. put out the full point after describeth. 435.16. sparte, r. sponte. and line. 29. superstition, read supposition. 441.34. parleys, rea. parvis. 443.2. when, rea. where. & 31. li. aliquid, r. aliquod. 447.2. strife, read stripe. 455.33. named, r. varied. & li. 34. shall, rea. should. AN ANSWER OF A TRUE CHRISTIAN TO A COUNTERFEIT CATHOLIC. The proposition of the Adversary. CHrist did commit at his departure hence, the testimony of that truth, for which he died, and the conversion of the Nations to the belief in him, to the true church of God, which then stood principally, and almost only in the persons of the Apostles and a few more, that by their preachings, and those afterward of their calling, the Christian religion might be planted in all Nations, beginning at jerusalem, and so proceeding to the coasts and corners of the earth. AN ANSWER TO THE PROPOSITION. I Grant that our Saviour Christ, at his departure hence, commanded his Apostles as principal members of his Church, though not the greatest part of it, to preach the doctrine which he confirmed by his death unto all nations, beginning at jerusalem, and so forth according to his saying: Go therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things what so ever I have commanded you. Matth. 28. Whereupon I challenge the Papist that if he be able to prove that the doctrine of popery is all that truth, and nothing but that truth, for which Christ died, and which he commanded the Apostles to teach, I will acknowledge the popish church to be the Church of Christ. The first article containeth 3. demands. 1 First I ask of the protestant what Church that was, which converted all these countries that be now Christian, to the faith of Christ? IF you mean by Christians, true Christians, and by the faith of Christ, the true faith of Christ, I answer: only the true Church of Christ, hath had the word of God and sacraments, as means which God useth, to subdue all nations unto the obedience of the faith, as was the primitive Church of the Apostles, which hath continued unto this day by succession, not of persons, and places, but of faith and truth, wherefore if the Papist can prove, that we hold not the same faith and truth, unto which the Apostles converted the nations, we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ. But if by Christians and Christian faith, you mean all them that profess the name of Christ, in the whole world, I answer, that the true Church of Christ, did not convert them all, for in Aethiopia, there are yet people, converted by the false apostles, which taught circumcision, and observation of the law, in which heresy they continued unto this day, and it is manifest by all histories, that the nations of the Alanes, Goths, and Vandals, were first converted by the Arrians. 2 And let him show unto me, that ever his Church converted any people, or land in the earth, from Idolatry, or Gentility, or judaisme, to the true Religion of Christ, or that this his faith was taught to any Nation in steed of true Christianity. WE are members of that Church, which converted all lands in the earth that are converted, from Idolatry, Gentility, judaisme, or heresy, to the true Religion of Christ, and we affirm that the Apostles taught none other faith in steed of true christianity, but that which we hold, as we are ready to prove by the word of God: And at this day the most part of Europe, is converted from Idolatry, heresy, and Antichristianitie, unto the same true faith, that we maintain, as in England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Denmark, Suetia, Bohemia, Polonia, by public authority, in spain, and Italy, a great numbered under persecution and tyranny. Also of the jews, no small numbered are converted to our religion, since the rising up of the Gospel in our days. 3 Or any Church, but the common Catholic Church to have done that, and I recant. BEcause you mean by the common Catholic, not the true Catholic, but the popish church: First I deny that ever the popish church converted any people, to the true faith. Secondly, I deny that the popish church hath converted all nations, to the profession of Christ: For, it is showed before, that the false Apostles, and Arians, converted some nations to the profession of Christ's name, but yet to false religion, And it is also manifest by histories, that the Grecians, whom the papists count no part of their church, but schismatics, converted the Moscovites first of all, unto the profession of the name of Christ, which yet continued in their religion, being neither the true faith, nor yet popish religion. As for the popish church, as it is certain, that it hath perverted and corrupted all parts of the Latin, or Western Church, with Idolatry and false religion, so it shallbe hard for the papists to prove, that it hath converted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion, except some parts of Germany, and them by force of arms, rather than by preaching, and reaching, as appeareth by the conversion of Livonia, Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia, Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania, Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I have showed that our Church, holding the true doctrine of the Apostles, is that which converted all nations to true religion, and that the popish church, hath not converted any people to true religion, nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ, this challenger, whosoever he be, do the recant. The second article containeth 4. demands. 1 I ask of him what Church it was, which hath induced the Christian people through the whole world, to give most humble credit in all points, to the holy books of the Bible? I Answer, it was the Church of Christ, and not the Popish church, which hath commended the books of holy Scripture, to be believed of all true Christians where soever they be, although it be the office of the holy Ghost, to open the hearts of men, and to form them that they may believe the scripture to be true, like as it is the office of the scripture or word of God, to try and examine, whether it be the spirit of God that persuadeth us to believe any thing, so the spirit beareth witness to the word and the word to the spirit. As for the popish church it could not induce the Christian people to give credit to the scripture in all points, because she is contrary to the scripture in many points: and even in the chiefest points of Christian Religion, namely in points concerning the glory of God, and the salvation of mankind, giving the glory of God to dead men, and dumb Images, and denying the mercy of God, purchased by the only sacrifice of Christ's death, to be the only cause of man's salvation. Finally seeing it is manifest by the answer to the first article, that the popish church did not convert all nations, to the profession of the Christian faith, it is evident thereby, that the popish church did not induce all them, that are called Christians, to give credit to the books of the holy Bible, as this challenger would have it to be thought. 2 What Church hath had the discerning & severing of them from other writings of all sorts? THe Church of Christ, hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse books of the scripture, but a judgement to discern true writing from counterfaicts, & the word of God, of infallible verity, from the writing of men, which might err, & this judgement she hath, not of herself, but of the holy Ghost: as for the popish Church, it can not be said to have this judgement of discerning the scripture of God from other writings, not only because she is so blind that she can not discern between the Canonical books of the scripture, from the Apocrypha writings, as appeareth by receiving the books of the Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus, etc. to be of equal authority with the books of the Law, Psalms, etc. but also because she is so presumptuous, as to compel men to believe, that Customs, and traditions, writings of doctors, decrees of Popes, and councils, are equal with the authority of God his word, yea are of force, to altar and change the law of God, and the institution of Christ, set forth unto us in the scripture. And although she boast that she receiveth all the books of scripture, yet this proveth no more that she is the Church of Christ, than was the churches of the Arrians, Donatists, novatians, Euthychans, & other heretics, which received the Bible, as well as the Popish church. 3 What Church hath had the custody of them, and most safely hath preserved them, for the necessary use of God his people, and from the corruption of adversaries, as well of jews, as heretics of all sorts? THe providence of God, hath always preserved the Scripture, both from the violence of tyrants, & from the falsehood of heretics, and hath never suffered the true Church, to be destitute of the necessary use thereof. But the popish church, hath not kept the scripture for the necessary use of the people, which hath so kept it in an unknown tongue, that the people could have no use, much less the necessary use thereof: wherefore if this be a note of the Catholic Church, to keep the word of God for the necessary use of God his people, it is plain that the popish church is not the Catholic Church, which hath kept the scripture so, that God his people could have no use thereof. And if the only custody of the scripture from corruption of heretics, be a sure note of the Church, why is not the Greek Church, the Catholic Church, which unto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church? why are not other Estern Churches of Asia, which never acknowledged the Pope, or popish religion, true Churches, which likewise have preserved the scripture, as we have seen of late, that the new Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue, at th'emperors charges, for the increase of Christian faith among them. And finally, why are not the jews, the Catholic Church, which have kept the old Testament in Hebrew, more faithfully than ever the Papists. And because they boast of safe preserving of the scriptures, all men, that are learned in the tongues can testify, in how corrupt a Latin translation they have kept the scriptures, both of the old and of the new Testament. 4 And let the Protestant declare to me, that their Congregation hath had from time to time, or ever had right herein, or any other Church, saving the Catholic Church, and I recant. Our Congregation, which is the body of Christ, hath ever had, both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her head: as appeareth by this, that our Church and Congregation believeth nothing but that she learneth in it, acknowledgeth that all things profitable to salvation, are sufficiently contained in it, and finally in all things submitteth herself to the judgement of it. But the popish church, which believeth many things contrary to the scripture, teacheth many things beside the scripture, necessary to salvation, and refuseth to have her faith, doctrine, and ceremonies, to be judged by the scripture, neither hath, neither ever had, any right to the scripture, though she have never so many books of them in possession. Wherefore these things considered, this challenger doth recant. The third article containeth 5. demands. 1 Show me why our common known Church, did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament, as the true religion contained in the same? THere may be divers good reasons showed, why your Church, commonly known to be the church of Antichrist, did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament, as the true religion contained therein. First, because she could not, the copies thereof being so many, by the providence of God dispersed throughout the world. Secondly, because she thought it not so needful, having other means to work her devilish devise: For, although she could not corrupt the scripture, yet it made the less matter, because she found means to diminish, and control the authority thereof by advancing decrees of men, Popes, and councils, to be equal or of greater authority than the scripture. Thirdly, because she would be less in fear, to be reproved by the scripture, she provided that the knowledge thereof, should be hidden from the unlearned people by a strange tongue, and from the learned, by the tedious mazes of questions, devised by her canonists, and Sententiaries. Fourthly, because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture, to her own judgement, and therefore would not be controlled by the judgement thereof, but would always expound it, as it liked her best. As appeareth by Ockam, and Duns, who though they confess, that transubstantiation, seemeth to them, contrary to the scripture, and reason, yet they believed it, because of the authority of the church, and for none other cause. These are the reasons, why the Romish church did not, as well corrupt the text of the Testament, as the true Religion. And yet how corrupt that Latin translation is, which they would needs thrust upon us, is sufficiently known to all learned men, even in such texts, as are the most coulerable places for the defence of Popish doctrine. I will give one example for all: They allege the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat, videat ne cadat. He that standeth, let him take heed he fall not, against the certainty of faith, whereas the Greek hath, not he that standeth, but, he that thinketh he standeth, let him take heed he fall not: Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse herself, from corrupting of the text of the Testament, whether it was of fraud, or of ignorance, or of negligence, the Lord knoweth. 2 Show me why, she kept not so safely, and faithfully, the true sense of God his word, as she preserved the word itself? BEcause it was against her own estimation, and profit, which are the chief ends for which popish Prelates maintain popish religion. Take away the Pope's prerogative, which is contrary to the sense of God his word, down go Cardinals, Legates, Prothonotaries: down goeth all the Court of Rome, take away works of supererogation, which are contrary to the Scripture, down go Abbeys, Priories and Chantries. Take away the sacrifice of the Mass, & Purgatory, which are contrary to the word of God, down goeth the estimation, and gains of all the popish clergy: And this is the cause, why the popish church kept not so safely, and faithfully, the true sense of God his word, as she preserved the word itself, although she preserved not the word itself, in such safety as becomed the Church of Christ. 3 Show me why, we should believe the Papists, as you term them, for the word itself, and rather you Protestants than them, for the meaning of the word. WE do not challenge credit to ourselves, in any point, so presumptuously as the Papists, that men must believe it because we affirm it. But because we prove it to be true, by the word of God. And therefore for the meaning of the word, you should believe us rather than them, because our grounds & proves are better than theirs, or else we require not to be believed better than they. 4 Show me why, you believed our Church, telling you this to be God his book, & will not credit her, avouching this to be the true and undoubted sense of the same book? IF we had no better ground to persuade us, of the authority of God his book, than the testimony of your Church, you may be sure we would not believe it. But because we have most steadfast assurance of God his spirit, for the authority of that book, with the testimony of the true Church in all ages. If you say it is God his book, we believe you not, because you say so, but because we know it to be true. But if you bring out a false sense, we believe you not, because we know it to be false, & are able to prove by the word of God, that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost. To be plain with you, we give as much credit to your Church, as to the devil. When the devil saith: it is written: He shall give his angels charge over thee, and with their hands they shall hold thee up that thou dash not thy foot against a stone. We believe that this is the word of God. But when he avoucheth this to be the meaning of it, that we may cast down ourselves from a Church steeple, without danger, we do not believe him, because we know this sense is contrary to an other Scripture, which saith: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these words are the Scripture of God: This is my body: We believe it, because we know it to be true. But when you say this is the meaning of these words. This bread is turned into my natural body, we believe you not, because it is contrary to all places of Scripture, which prove the truth of Christ his humanity or natural body. Thus I show you why we believe you, if you say the Scripture is God his word, namely because we know it to be true, & why we believe you not, saying this is the meaning of it, that is, because we know by the word of God that it is false. 5 Last of all, Show me why, you believed the old known church, affirming this to be the word of God, and will not believe her, affirming Luther to be an heretic, show me good reason or Scripture for these things, and I recant. IF you mean by the old Church the primitive Church, whose testimony of the word of God we allow & believe, I deny that the primitive Church did affirm Luther to be an heretic, or the doctrine that he taught, which we hold,, to be heresy, but I am able to prove, that the primitive Church, from which you have received the Scripture, affirmeth your doctrine to be heresy, & your Church the Church of Antichrist. But if by the old known Church, you mean the Church of old, known to be the Church of Antichrist, which is the popish church,, we believe the devil if he speak the truth, and we believe not an Angel coming from heaven, if he bring any other Gospel, than S. Paul delivered to the galatians. Therefore when your church affirmeth Luther to be an heretic, seeing we know that Luther did not obstinately, and maliciously err, in any article of faith, concerning the substance of religion, we do not believe her: and specially because she is a partial witness against him, whom God used to discover, so much of her wickedness, to her great hindrance, there is no credit to be given unto her, when she goeth about to deface him, by slanderous names, and false accusations. Thus I have showed these things that you require, both by good reason, and also by scripture: Therefore if I may believe you, you recant. The fourth article containeth 3. demands. 1 I demand, what Church hath mightily gone through, borne down, and fully vanquished, all heresies in times past, aswell against the blessed Trinity, as other Articles of our religion? I Answer, the true Catholic Church, hath always resisted all false opinions, contrary to the word of God, as her duty was, and fought against them with the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, and by the aid of God obtained the victory, and triumphed over them. So did Paul overcome the jews Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitive Church, from time to time, confute heresies, by the scriptures, and declare in their writings, that by them they are to be confuted, for example's sake of a great number, I will allege a few. Hylarius, writing of the blessed Trinity against heretics Lib. 4. sayeth: Cessent itaque propriae hominum opiniones, neque se ultrà Divinam constitutionem, humanae judicia extendant: Sequamur ergo adversus irreligiosas, & impias de Deo institutiones, ipsas illas divinorumm dictorum authoritates, & unumquodque eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus. Wherefore let opinions proper to men give place, and let not men's judgements stretch themselves further than God his constitution. Therefore against these unreligious and ungodly opinions of God, let us follow the very authority of God his sayings, and handle every one of them, by the aid of him, about whom the question is: Thus Hylarius, would have heresies against the Trinity, to be confuted, not by men's judgement, but by God his word. Basilius magnus, very often testifieth, that he would have all good things, proved by the scripture, and all evil things confuted by the same, In his morals Dist. 26. Every word or deed, must be confirmed by the testimony of holy Scripture, for the persuasion of good men, and the confusion of wicked men: And in his treatise of Faith: we know, that we must now, and always, avoid every voice or opinion, that is differing from the doctrine of our Lord. And in his short definitions to the first interrogation: whether it be lawful or profitable for a man to permit unto himself, to do or say any thing, which he thinketh to be good, without the testimony of the holy Scripture? he answereth: forasmuch as our Saviour Christ sayeth: that the holy Ghost shall not speak of himself, what madness is it, that any man should presume to believe any thing, without the authority of God his word. By these, and many other places, it is manifest, that Basilius, would have heresies and false opinions, confuted by the holy Scriptures. Chrysostome, upon Luke cap. 16. sayeth, that the ignorance of the scriptures, hath bred heresies, and brought in corrupt life, yea it hath turned all things upsidown, by which it appeareth, by what means he would have heresies kept away, namely by knowledge of the scriptures. It were to long to rehearse all the places of S. Augustine, by which his mind appeareth, that he would have the Church, sought only in the scriptures, and heretics confuted, only by the scriptures, to whose only authority in many places, he professeth that he himself will be bound, as Epist. 19 ad Hieronymum. Epist. 48. Vincentio. Epist. 111. Fortunatiano. Epist. 112. to Paulina, contra Faustum. lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum, lib. 2. cap. 31. & 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas' lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis & remissione peccatorum, contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae & gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs & concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places, S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonical scripture, before all writings of Catholic Doctors, of Bishops, of councils, before all customs, and traditions. But that he would have the true Church sought only in the scriptures, it is manifest, by these places, first in his 48. Epistle to Vincentius. Nos autem ideo certi sumus, neminem se a communione omnium gentium justè separare potuisse, quia non quis quam nostrum in justitia sua, sed in scriptures Divines quaerit Ecclesiam. speaking of the Donatists, he sayeth. We are sure, that no man could justly separate himself from the communion of all Nations, because none of us seeketh the Church in his own righteousness, but in the holy Scriptures. So if the Papists would not presume of their own righteousness, but seek the Church of Christ in the scriptures, they would not separate themselves from the communion of Christ's Church, now by God his grace enlarged farther than the Popish church. Also in his book De unitate Ecclesiae. cap. 2. he hath these words. Inter nos autem & Donatistas' quaestio est, ubi sit Ecclesa. Quid ergo facturi sumus? in verbis nostris ●am quaesituri, an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri jesu Christi● puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus, qui veritas est, & optimè novit corpus suum. The question is between us, and the Donatists, where the Church should be, what shall we do then? shall we seek her in our own words, or in the words of her head our Lord jesus Christ? I think we aught rather to seek her in his words which is the Truth, and best knoweth his own body. So the question is at this day, between the Papists and us, where the church is, let us seek in God his word, there we shall easily find her. To the same intent, he speaketh in the third, fifth, and sixteenth Chapters of the same treatise. Furthermore, that he would have heretics confuted only by the scriptures, he showeth likewise in many places of his works: for writing against Maximinus the Arian, lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited, he sayeth: but now, neither must I prejudicially bring forth the Council of Nice, nor then the Council of Arimine, for neither am I bounden to the authority of the one, nor you of the other, but let matter with matter, cause with cause, reason with reason, contend by authority of the scriptures, not proper to any, but indifferent witnesses to both parts. If Augustine would not oppress the Arrians, by the authority of the Nicene Council, which was the first, and the best general Council, that ever was, but only by the scriptures, how much less would he charge them with other authorities, that the Papists allege, beside the authority of holy scriptures. And in his book De Vni●ate Ecclesiae against the Donatists the 16. chapter: Sed utril ipsi Ecclesiam teneant, non nisi divinarum scripturarum Canonicis libris oftendant, quia nec nos etc. But whether they hold the church or no: let them show none other wise, but by the canonical books of holy Scripture, for we ourselves do not say, that men aught to believe us, that we are in the Church, because we hold that Church which Optatus of Milevitum, or Ambrose of Millayn, or innumerable other Bishops of our communion, have commended to us, or because it is set forth by the Counsels of our fellow bishops, or because so many miracles of hearing requests, or healings, are done in the holy places, which our fellowship doth frequent in the whole world, so that the bodies of Martyrs, which were hidden so many years (which thing if they will ask they may hear of many) were revealed unto Ambrose, and that at the same bodies, one that had been many years blind, very well known in the city of milan, received his eyes, and eye sight, either because this man dreamt, or that man was ravished in the spirit, and heard a voice, that he should not join himself to Donatus, or that he should depart from the faction of Donatu●: for when soever such things are done in the Catholic Church, they are to be allowed, because they are done in the Catholic church▪ but the church itself is not therefore proved to be Catholic, because these things are done in it. By this Augustine declareth first that heretics must be confuted, only by the scriptures, and secondly that neither councils, succession of bishops, universality, miracles, visions, dreams, nor revelations, are the notes to try the Catholic church, but only the scriptures. Moreover in his book De Pastoribus cap. 14. Quaerit infirmus Ecclesiam etc. A weak person seeketh the Church, he wandereth and seeketh the church▪ what sayest you? The church is of Donatus side. Inquire for the shepherds voice, Read me this out of some Prophet, read me this out of some Psalm, rehearse me it out of the law, rehearse it out of the Gospel, rehearse it out of the Apostle, out of them do I rehearse the Church dispersed over all the world. And a little after: Tu accusas non evangelium etc. Thou accusest, not the Gospel, thou accusest not the Prophet, not the Apostle of whom this voice speaketh to me I believe him other I believe not. But thou wilt bring forth decrees, I will also bring forth decrees, should I believe thine? believe thou mine likewise. I believe not thine, neither do thou believe mine, then let men's writings be laid away and let God's word sound between us: bring me one place of scripture for Donatus side etc. These places may sufficiently declare by what means this doctor thought the Church should overthrow heresies, namely by the word of God only, which thing also Leo, the first bishop of Rome, in his Epist. 10. ad Fabianum contra Eutychen plainly confesseth saying: Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt, qui cum ad cognoscendam veritatem etc. But those men fall into this folly, which when they are hindered by any doubt to know the truth, have not recourse to the voices of the Prophets, not to the writings of the Apostles, not to the authority of the Gospel, but to themselves. And therefore they become, masters of error, because they have not been scholars of truth. Of the same judgement was the whole Council of Constantinople the sixth, as appear Actione 18. Si igitur omnes simpliciter etc. Therefore if all men from the beginning would have simply and without subtlety taken upon them the preaching of the Gospel, and have been content with the constitutions of the Apostles, surely matters should have been well, and in good case, neither should painful contention, have been exercised against the authors of heresies, nor against the favourers of priests. Here the Council confesseth, that the heretics and schismatics grow so fast, because they were not beaten down, by preaching of the Gospel and authority of the scriptures. Thus I have declared by example, and authority of these Fathers, that the true Church of Christ, hath convicted all heretics, only by the scripture. 2 And what Church it was, that hath always stand still, and steadfast, whilst all other Congregations, as well of Arrians, as anabaptists, Aerians, novatians, Vigilantians, jovinians, and the rest have decayed. THe true Church of Christ, hath always stood steadfast, and unseparable, from Christ her head, when all heretics have been, and shall be confounded. But the true Church hath not always flourished in worldly peace and tranquillity: for until the time of Constantine the great, which was Anno Dom. 339. the Church had small rest from cruel persecution in most places: and soon after again under the Emperors Constantius, Constans, and Valens, it was greatly infected with the heresy of Arius, what time also Tiberius' Bishop of Rome, was infected with the same heresy. After that when julianus the Apostata, was Emperor, the temples of Idols were opened, and gentility again restored, so that the Church suffered great detriment. To be short, when the barbarous Goathes, Vandals, Alanes, and other Idolatrous or heretical nations destroyed the Empire, the Church of God suffered a great Eclipse. But when Mahomet, in the East, & Antichrist the Pope, in the West, seduced the world with most detestable heresy, than was fulfilled that which was revealed to S. john in the 12. of the Apocalyps, the woman clothed with the Son, which you yourself confess to be the Church, was so persecuted by the Dragon, that she fled into the wilderness, there to remain a long season. Where she hath not decayed, but been always preserved, until God should reveal Antichrist, and bring her again into open light, which (his holy name be praised) is now brought to pass in our days, to our inestimable comfort, and his everlasting glory. 3 And if it can be proved that either the Protestants Church or any other Church but ours, hath mightily overthrown these foresaid sects, and other of all sorts, I recant. IT hath been already proved sufficiently, that the true Catholic Church which is led only, by the word of God, as a most infallible rule, hath overthrown heresies of all sorts. But the popish church which refuseth the only weapon, by which heresies are cut down, to be sufficient for that purpose, never was nor shall be strong enough to encounter with heretics, therefore she practiseth to vanquish those whom she counteth for heretics, not by authority of the Scriptures, but by fire and sword, and cruel war, as appeareth by her dealing with the Waldenses, Albigenses, Bohemians, and in our days with the true Christians. But where her power of fire and sword could not prevail, there hath she not overthrown such as she condemneth for heretics, namely the Grecians church, & all other churches of Asia, and Aphrica, which unto this day will not acknowledge her doctrine to be Catholic, nor her authority to be lawful. Wherefore seeing the Popish church neither hath confuted those that are heretics in deed, nor subdued those whom she counteth to be heretics, if you be a good as your word, you recant. The fifth article containeth 3. demands. 1 Again, what Church is that, which hath exercised by Christ's appointment, Discipline, upon offenders in all degrees? Only the Church of Christ, by Christ's appointment, hath exercised true discipline upon offenders, Although by means of persecution, she could not always practise the same as she would. 2 And for that purpose, hath continually executed laws and Canons Ecclesiastical, with Excommunication, Degradation, suspension, and such like. THe Church of Christ only, hath had lawful authority to exercise discipline: but as it is said before, she hath not continually practised the same, because she could not, being hindered by persecution, and dispersion. Concerning excommunication, she hath practised it according to the word of God, and against such offenders, as the scripture judgeth worthy of that severe punishment: As for degradation, and suspension, it may be doubted what you mean by them: If you understand by degradation, that such persons as the Church hath tried unmeet, either for doctrine or manners, to execute the office of preaching, and ministering the sacraments, she hath displaced and rejected from that charge: she hath also practised drgradation: And if you mean by suspension, that when the accusation of a man's doctrine or life was uncertain, that she hath willed him to cease from executing his office, until his cause were tried either good or evil, she hath also used suspension: but if by degradation and suspension, you mean those foolish and wicked ceremonies, which the popish church now useth and so termeth, I deny that ever the true Church of Christ had to do with such degradations and suspensions. 3 Prove me this gear to proceed from Protestants, or from any other Church than the Catholic, and I recant. IT is proved before, that true discipline belongeth to the true Church, whereof we are a part, which Church is sufficiently proved to be the spouse of Christ, because she is ruled in all things by his only voice: And therefore all congregations of heretics, which depart from the true word of God, though they take upon them, to exercise discipline, by excommunication or otherwise, it is not to be regarded, and jest of all the Popish church, where remaineth nothing of discipline and excommunication, but the very names: for what call you popish discipline? is not that it which they use in Lent, whisking men on the heads, and women on the hands, with white rods which they themselves call discipline? Or is it the severe punishment that they use against offenders by excommunication, suspension, interdighting etc. First, it is manifest they have no excommunication by Christ's appointment, for neither it is executed by the persons appointed by God's word, nor against such offenders only as God his word appointeth: for whereas our Saviour Christ appointeth the order of that discipline, to the Congregation of such as are wise, godly, and careful of men's health, which first shall labour by fatherly admonition and wholesome exhortation, to bring the offenders to repentance, whom if they refuse to hear, they are to be reputed for heathens and publicans, the Pope contrariwise referreth the same to profane and unreligious officers, which are more desirous to gain the fees of absolution, than by bringing the party to repentance, to save him from excommunication. Moreover whereas by God's word, excommunication is the last and most grievous punishment, that the Church can enjoin against any, of whom there is any hope of salvation, and therefore aught not to be practised but for heinous offences, the Popish church maketh it serve for every trifling matter, yea for petty debts and all, then cometh in interdighting & suspensions of places, as churches and towns, yea whole realms, for one man's fault: what likeliness hath this unto the discipline of Christ's church set forth in the scriptures, and practised by the fathers? with what face can you Papists affirm, they have discipline, in their Church, when all penances for most horrible offences, may be bought out for money, and an open market thereof set up at Rome, with the prices rated, what men must pay for every thing that they buy: as absolution for him that hath killed his father, or mother, brother, sister, or wife Turones 4. Ducat. 1. Ca line. 5.8. For an heretic before he have abjured 36. Turones. and 9 ducats. For a witch 6. Turones. 2. ducats. For a priest that is a Sodomite, or hath lain with brute beasts 36. Turones. 9 ducats. For a nun that hath been a common whore both within and without her Abbey, with dispensation that she may be able to receive any dignity, in her order, yea to be Abbess, 36. Turones. 9 ducats. And so for all other offences, with dispensations, inhibitions, rehabilities, licences, relaxations, commutations, confirmation, perinde Valere's Marcamas and the devil and all for money: wherefore except you be to impudent, to acknowledge this to be Christian discipline, be as good as your promise, and recant. The sixth article containeth 3. demands. 1 Again from what Church, did all the solemn ceremonies, and observations, all festival days, all fasts, all distinctions, and varieties of service, by diversities of seasons, and times of the year, (proceed.) FIrst you must understand, that we detest and abhor all your beggarly ceremonies, which you count holy and solemn observations: for we know, that God is not to be worshipped with such things but that the true worshippers must worship him in spirit & verity john 4. And seeing we know God, or rather are known of him, we will not regard the weak and beggarly elements, because they are destitute of God his word, which only i● able to give them strength and estimation? as for your festivities, in the honour of creatures, we do likewise abhor them▪ we honour the Saints as S. Augustine sayeth for imitation, but we do not worship them for Religion. De vera Religione cap. 55. Where he also saith. Quare honoramus eos charitate, non servitute. We honour them with love, and not with service. And as he doth often affirm, that it is Idolatry to build churches in the honour of Saints, so is it as great Idolatry, to institute festival days, in the favour of the same Saints. As for the festival days that were used in the primitive Church, although they might have been omitted, without any hurt of Christian Religion, yet were they not kept in the honour of creatures, as they are of the Papists, but only for the memory of the Martyrs, and other Saints, that their good life might be followed. Your fasts are also abominable: for they are nothing else but abstinence from meats, created of God to be received with thanksgiving, which S. Paul affirmeth to be the doctrine of devils 1. Tim. 4. Also your distinctions and varieties of service, because they consist most of blasphemous prayers to dead Saints, and sometimes to damned spirits, with foolish lessons, responses, versicles, etc. Lewd lies and uncertain tales, which you read and sing, as God his service, they are all abominable. In vain do they worship me, saith our Saviour Christ, teaching for doctrine the precepts of men. Math. 15. Also it was decreed in the Council of Laodicea, the 59 chapter, that nothing should be song or read in the Church, but the Canonical books of holy Scripture: wherefore if you demand whence your ceremonies, festival days, fasts, and varieties of service did proceed? I answer plainly, out of the bottomless pit of hell. 2 From whence did all things, yet indifferently for most part, observed, and allowed, on both sides, from whence did they proceed? IF you had uttered what things you mean, that are so indifferently allowed on both sides, we might better have answered: but seeing you have not, we must conjecture what you mean: if you mean any thing that is allowed without controversy on both sides, it did either proceed from the scripture of God, or from the primitive Church or else it a thing merely indifferent, but if it have no ground in holy Scripture, nor example of the primitive Church, nor judged merely indifferent, it not indifferently observed for the most part, nor yet allowed on both sides. 2 And if it can be proved, that the Protestants Congregation, or any other Church, but ours, hath instituted and ordered all these, or any of these, for the comeliness and honour of God his house, I recant. I Have answered before, that the Protestants Congregation, giveth you leave to brag, that you are the inventors of all these Idolatrous superstitions, & false worshipping of God, and yet because you offer so liberally to recant, if it can be proved that any Church but yours, hath instituted and ordered all these things, you shall hear what can be said. First, your great doctor Durande, plainly affirmeth that many of your ceremonies, and solemnities, had not their first institution of your church, but were taken of the jews or Gentiles: And it may easily be proved, that many of your ceremonies, were instituted of heretics, as your holy water which you say you use to put men in mind of their baptism, was derived of the heretics called Hemerobaptistae, which were, baptised every day, Epiphan. lib. 1. Tom. 1. cap. 17. Of the Ossenes, you took the great estimation of water, salt, oil, bread, etc. and use to swear by them, as they did. Epiph. contra Ossenes 19 Of the same heretics, you received the superstition of relics, for they used to take the spittle, and other filth from the bodies of Marthys, and Marthana, which were of the seed of Elxai, that is, great Saints with them, and used them to cure diseases, as Erasmus witnesseth, at Canterbury were kept the clouts, that Thomas Becket did occupy to wipe of his sweat, In peregrinatione Religionis ergo. and to blow his nose on, which were kissed as holy relics, and thought also to be wholesome for sick folks: of the same heretics you learned to command the people to pray, in an unknowene tongue, as Elxai, the great Pope of those heretics said: Nemo quaerat interpretationem, sed solum in oration haec dicat. Let no man seek the interpretation, but only say these words in his prayer. Which words were in a strange tongue, either the Hebrew, or the Arabike. Epiphan. lib. 1. Tom. 1. haeres. 19 Likewise the Marcosians when they baptised, used to speak certain Hebrew words, that the ignorant people might marvel the more at them, as you do in Baptism Ephata, etc. Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haer. 34. To make the Images of Christ, and of the Apostles, and to sense them, you learned of the heretics called Gnostici, and Carpocrati●ae, Epip. lib. 1. Tom. 2. in the preface Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 2. haer. 27. and Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 23. Of the Valentinians, you learned to have in price the sign of the cross, and to abuse the places of scripture for the same superstitious use: as, God forbid that I should rejoice but in the cross of Christ, etc. Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 1. Epiphan. lib. 1. Tom. 2. haeres. 31. Of the Heracleonites, you learned to anoint men at the point of death, with oil, and balm, and to cast water upon dead men, with invocations. Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haeres. 36. Of the Cayanes', you learned to call upon Angels. Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haeres. 38. Of the marcionists, you learned to give women leave to baptise. Ep. lib. 1. Tom. Haer. 42. George, Bishop of Alexandria, invented bears to carry dead corpses, charging all men to use them for his own advantage, as do you Papists your bearing clotheses & other toys for funeral pomps. Ep. lib. 3. Tom. 1. Haer. 76. Of the Colliridianes, you learned to make images of the virgin Marie, & worship them & her, with offering of candles, etc. as they did of cakes, etc. Ep. lib. 3. Haer. 79. Of the Messalians or Martirians, you learned to shave your beards and to let your locks grow long. Ep. lib. 3. Haer. 80. Of the Pharizees, you received your superstitious masking garments, which you call amictus dalmaticus, and pallia, as witnesseth Epiphanius, in his epistle to Acacius, and Paulus. Last of all what say you to the ceremonies, festivities, fasts, and solemnities, used in the Greek Church, and in the other Oriental Churches, if they be sufficient to make their church Cathol●ke, why do you count them heretics, and Schismatics? if they be not sufficient, why do you reason of the institution of the like, to prove your Church Catholic? You see that proved which you desired, play the honest man therefore, and recant. The 7. article containeth 3. demands. 1 Further I ask them, what Church that is, which hath brought forth out of her womb, so many noble personages, of Martyrs, Confessors, Doctors, Virgins, and holy Saints, of all sorts, all which both they and we do outwardly profess, by the continuance of the Callendare, which yet is used every where, to be Saints in heaven. further I answer you, that all true Saints, whether they were patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, evangelists, Martyrs, Confessors, Doctors, Scholars, Virgins, wives, widows, married, or unmarried, are all children of that Church, in whose fellowship we rejoice to be, and are our dear brethren and sister begotten in jesus Christ by the gospel, and we all hold of one head jesus Christ, as members of his mystical body. We all believe to be received into that glory that they are, by the only mean that they were, that is by the mercy of God in Christ jesus. But as for the continuance of the calendar, we have little respect unto it, yea not regard at all, to use it either as a record, or as a register of those whom we acknowledge to be Saints in heaven. Let the Prince make you answer, for the continuance of such calendars, for we have not to do with them. Nevertheless because you speak of a calendar, that is used every where, you declare that you have small experience in calendars, for every country hath them divers in most days, except holy days, and in some country calendars, such days are festival to those Saints, that have not their names in calendars of other countries, yea it may be doubted whether they have their names in the book of life. If you saw a Bohemians calendar, perhaps if you should see john Hus, and jerom of prague, which your church condemned for heretics, and have as solemn feasts, in the Calendar as Peter and Paul, wherefore we acknowledge those to be Saints in deed, not whose names are continued in the calendars of men, but are written in the book of life of the Lamb, that was slain from the beginning of the world. Apoc. 13. 2 And if it can be proved by any man of the Protestancy, that these were either, of the Protestants Congregation, or belief when they were alive. IT is sufficiently proved against you, of the Papistry, that all they, whom we acknowledge to be Saints in heaven, are members of the same mystical body of Christ, that we are, and hold the only foundation that we hold, which is jesus Christ, and although some of them, builded straw and stubble upon the same foundation, yet the Lord hath not imputed it unto them. But whereas the patriarchs, Prophets, and Apostles were chief lights and pillars of the church of Christ, the day is yet to come, and ever shallbe, that all you of the Papistry, shallbe able to charge us with one point of our faith, contrary to the doctrine of the patriarchs, Prophets, and Apostles. 3 Or canonised and allowed for Saints by the Protestants Church, when they were dead, or by any other Church, than I recant. Our Church doth take all them that show the fruits of a lively faith, to be Saints, while they be alive, as well as after their death, and we say with David: All my delight is in the Saints, that are in the earth Psal. 16. and with S. Paul: We labour to comprehend with all Saints, what is the length, breadth, depth, and height, and to know the love of Christ. Ephes. 3 Finally the scripture teacheth us, to call all them that are sanctified in the blood of Christ, and called to the fellowship of the Gospel, holy and Saints of God. 1. Cor. 1. Ephes. 1. etc. Wherefore, your Popish church doth great injury to the Saints of God, first, because she doth not so account them while they live, and secondly, because she referreth the canonisation of them only to the Pope, who not for their holy life, maketh them Saints, but for the holy hunger of gold, as appear by Pope july 2. who would not canonize king Henry the sixth, at the request of king Henry the seventh, under an unreasonable sum of money. If that sum of money had been paid, he should have been a saint, though he had not deserved, not for his virtue. And because that sum of money was not paid, he might not be canonised, although his godliness never so much deserved. Again of what force your Canonization is to be esteemed, we may learn by a fact of Pope Boniface the 8. who condemned, digged up, and burned the body of Hermannus in Ferraria, 30. years after his burial, who had been worshipped for a saint above 20. years before, as witnesseth Platina and other. Gregory the seventh canonised Pope Liberius, which was an Arrian, as S. Hieronym testifieth, Moreover if I should likewise demand of you, what Pope canonised Peter, Paul, and the rest of the Apostles, yea most of the Martyrs of the primitive Church, you shall never be able to show me either what Pope did it, or that any Pope did it: For seeing none may canonize but the Pope in your church, and you can not prove that the Pope hath canonised the Apostles and chief Martyrs, you can not prove that your church hath canonised the Apostles and principal Martyrs. But it is manifest that your canonisation is taken from the heathen Senate of Rome, which challenged authority to make Gods, whom they themselves thought best. And if I should rip up the most part of those Saints, which have been canonically canonised by the Pope, it were an easy matter to find them heretics, traitors, Necromancers, Whoremongers, and whores, as you may read in Bales Votaries abundantly, believing his report no farther than he allegeth his Author, where you may find it. Wherefore it were wisdom for you, not to depend upon the Pope his Canonization, but upon God his approbation, and to recant. The 8. article containeth 3. demands. 1 And because Christ as S Paul sayeth, hath established in his Church some Apostles, some preachers, some Teachers, and Doctors even until his coming again, I ask the Protestant, what Church that is, which is able to show & prove, the continuance and use of the said functions ever sense Christ's time by plain account of orderly Succession. I Answer the Papist, that Christ hath given to his Church some Apostles, some Prophets, some Evangelists, some Pastors, and Teachers. Ephes. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. And we are able to show & prove, that we continued in that unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, for which end such offices were ordained. But whereas you require, that we should show you the continuance of those functions by orderly succession from Christ's his time until our days, you declare how small skill you have in understanding the scriptures, for the offices of Apostles, Evangelists, and Prophets, were not appointed to continued always in the Church, but for a time, until the Gospel had taken root in the world. Moreover, whereas you require an orderly succession, according to persons, or places, you are never able to prove, that any such thing was promised to the Church, that we should show you the performance thereof in our Church. Otherwise we doubt not, but God hath always stirred up some faithful teachers, that have instructed his Church in the necessary points of Christian Religion. Although the world and the church of Antichrist did not always see them. 2 And is able to name you by the histories of all ages, the notable persons of all the foresaid states, in their government and ministery. Again I answer you, that you are not able to name, me any text of scripture, by which you can prove, that all these offices must have perpetual continuance in the church of Christ, nor yet that any of them should keep an ordinary succession of place or persons: But contrariwise, seeing it was prophesied that the church should fly into the wilderness, that is, be driven out of the sight and knowledge of the wicked, and be so narrowly persecuted of the Romish Antichrist for a long season, it were a token our church were not the true church, if we could name such notable persons as you speak of, in all ages flourishing in their government and ministery. And it is a good argument, that the Popish church is not the church of Christ, because it was never hidden sense it first sprang up, in so much that you can name all the notable persons in all ages in their government, and ministery, and especially the succession of Popes, you can rehearse in order upon your fingers, in which beadroole, nevertheless you must name many tyrants, many traitors, one whore, many whoremongers, many Sodomites, many murderers, many poysenors, many sorcerers, and Necromancers, and from Boniface the third, all blasphemous heretics, and Antichrist's. But our church, which hath not had so many registers, chroniclers, and remembrancers hath perhaps fewer, but yet honester men to name: we can name Peter, Paul, Matthew, john, etc. Mark, Luke, Timothe, Agabus, Epaphras, etc. justinus, Irenaeus, Cyprianus, Athanasius, Hylarius, Ambrose, Augustinus, etc. Gyldas, Bertramus, Marsilius de Milan. joan. de Ganduno, Bruno Andagavensis Wickleve, john Hus, Hierome of prague, etc. With the first, namely Apostles, Evangelists, and Prophets, we consent wholly in all points of doctrine, with the rest, in the chief and most substantial articles of faith, always agreeing with any man, so far as he agreeth with the word of God. 3 And if he can prove unto me, that their Church hath never lacked the same appointed officers, or that any Church or Congregation but ours hath kept that charge, them I recant. FOr some of those officers I have twice answered before, that they were not ordained, to continued always, with the church, wherefore they are not to be exacted of us, but such officers as are necessary for the conservation of God his people in the unity of faith and the knowledge of Christ, our Church hath never lacked, although in time of the great defection and Apostasy whereof S. Paul doth prophesy 2. Thess. 2. there were but few, as there were but few members of Christ his Church notwithstanding that through injury of the time, the remembrance of all their names is not come unto us. And although we could rehearse in order as many successions in our Church as the papists boast of in theirs, yet were that nothing to prove it to be the Church of Christ, which must be tried only by the Scriptures, as S. Augustine saith in his book de unitate Ecclesiae, against the Donatists cap. 16. Sed utrum ipsi Ecclesiam teneant, non nisi divinarum Scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant, quia nec nos propterea dicimus nobis credere oportere quod Ecclesia sumus, quia ipsam quam tenemus commendavit Milevitanus Optatus, vel Mediolanensis Ambrose, vel alij innumerabiles nostrae communionis Episcopi, etc. But whether they hold the Church or not, let them show none otherwise, but by the canonical books of holy Scripture, for we ourselves do not therefore say that men must believe us that we are in the Church because we hold the same Church, which Optatus of Milevitum hath commended, or Ambrose of Millayn, or innumerable Bishops of our communion. Even so we require at the Papists hands that show themselves to hold the Church not by succession of Bishops, or rehearsing of their names, but only by the Scriptures: for although we did rehearse innumerable names of Bishops in orderly succession on our side we would not require men to believe us, but only because we prove the doctrine of our Church by the authority of the Scriptures. But as for the popish church, neither hath nor ever had any of those officers which S. Paul speaketh of, for Apostles, Evangelists, and Prophets, she can challenge by no reason, seeing she refuseth to be tried by their doctrine uttered in their writings, in steed of pastors & teachers she hath wolves, dumb dogs, or false prophets, which either teach not at all, or else teach the doctrine of devils & the dreams of men. And further I would desire none other place in all the Scripture, to overthrow the popish Hierarchy (which is the greatest glory of their Church) than this place of Paul, Ephes. 4. he speaketh of Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets, Pastors and teachers. But where are Popes, Cardinals, popish archbishops, Bishops, priests, Deacons, Subdeacons, Exorcists, Cantors, Acolyts, Ostiares, Monks, Friars, Canons, Nuns, etc. Wherefore I conclude that all these popish orders are no offices in the Church of Christ. And especially, seeing the Apostle both in this place Eph. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. by these offices proveth the unity of mind, he acknowledgeth no Pope as one supreme head in earth, which might be very profitable (as the Papists say) to maintain this unity: for if there had been any such office appointed of God, S. Paul in no wise would have omitted it, especially when it made so notably for the confirmation of his purpose, which was unity. To conclude if it be sufficient, or any thing worth, to rehearse the names of them that have orderly succeeded in all ages in the bishops sees, in an outward face of the Church, the Greek Church is able to name as many as the Latin Church, and in as orderly succession. Wherefore if you be as ready to perform as to promise', you recant. The ninth article may be divided into nine demands. 1 And for the necessary use and execution of the foresaid offices, they must further be asked, what Sacraments the Protestants ministered for the space of a thousand years together, in which they confess their congregations to have been near or else wholly hidden. THey ministered those Sacraments which Christ did institute, namely the Sacrament of baptism, and the Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ, at such times as the cruel tyranny of you Papists did not hinder them, to come together for such purposes. 2 What correction they kept and discipline for offenders. THey did use such discipline as was used in S. Cyprians time, when persecution hindered not the free course of it. As he doth often complain in the places above rehearsed. They did admonish secretly, before witnesses, and when persecution stayed them not, they did also excommunicate. 3 To whom they did preach their Faith. TO such as would give them hearing, as Wickleve to the Englishmen: john Hus to the Bohemians: Waldo to the Frenchmen, and so of the rest. 4 How did they reprove heresies? THey reproved heresies, by the word of God, and patiented suffering of your tyranny: the one you may read in their works, that are yet extant of Wickleve, Bertrame, Hus, etc. The other in histories of your own writers. 5 Where did their principal Pastors sit in judgement? I Might ask you where the Apostles did sit in judgement and you are never able to show me, for I read as one saith: that they stood often to be judged, but I never read that they sat in judgement upon others: And so I answer of the principal Pastors of our Church, especially in time of persecution. 6 Where did they gather as in councils to try the truth of doubtful matters? AS God gave them respite, from your tyranny, they had conference one with an other: and as for doubts, they tried them by the word of God, and not by number of voices, as you do in your councils, as for the places where they met, is nothing at all material, at prague, at Lions, at Merindol, etc. 7 How might Christian men, justly offended with some of their brethren, have sought out your officers or Congregation, to make complainct of him? YOu are voided of all reason that in a persecuted church, will require all things to be so formal and orderly, as in time of peace and quietness, I could choke you with putting like cases of your Church. If a number of Papists be carried prisoners into Barbary, or Turkey, what Sacraments, what discipline, what judgement have they among them, if one be offended with his brother how shall he come to your officers, or to your Church to complain. In such cases where the ordinary authority of the Church is hindered by persecution, or otherwise, the rule of S. Paul. 1. Cor. 5. may serve and aught to be observed: If any that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an Idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner with such one eat not. So that if a Christian be justly offended with his brother, he aught to abstain from his company. And if he may have ordinary authority, he may complain further. 8 Or how if it had liked any man to have been baptised of them, or to have received the communion of them, or to have been married of them, or to have joined themselves in Faith and Religion to them, how might I say that secret, contemptible, and unknown company, be found in this case? HE must have sought them out as well as he could, & if he had been persuaded, that they only ministered the Sacraments, & Ecclesiastical rites, sincerely, according to the word of God, it were no great matter for him to found them, seeing he knew by whom he was so persuaded, and of them might also be informed where he should have them. I marvel you are not ashamed to demand these questions, as though it were material to discuss, whether of us hath the Church, to have the Church so manifest, that every man may see it. Do you not remember how many schisms have been even in the popish church, more than twenty, and sometime two Popes at once, sometime three, & sometime four, which of them should a simple Papist take for head of the Church, especially in the 22. schism, which lasted 39 years: one Pope sitting at Rome, an other at Avignon, either having his court, either having and making Cardinals, either cursing other. Or in the 23. schism, when the question was of one of the highest points in all popery, and is not yet thoroughly decided among them: Whether the Pope be above the Council, or the Council above the Pope. In the time of these schisms how might a man have found out, which was the true Church, which was Christ's vicar in earth, which had the right Sacraments and sacramentals, to which Popes court should he appeal, where did the principal Pastors sit in judgement, etc. How should councils be gathered, which Pope should confirm their acts, &c, When you are able to answer these questions, for your own church; than you may better require them of ours. As for that secret, contemptible, and unknown company of our Church, in the sight of the world, was nevertheless manifest, glorious, and known to our Saviour Christ, and the lively members of his body. 9 If therefore you can show me, that any man ever sought justice or knowledge of truth, sacrament, or faith, or any help of Salvation at the Protestants secret and close congregation, or any other where, but of Gods known Catholic Church, I recant. ALthough it be to little purpose to answer this demand, because it is no reason to say, these things hath not been, because chronicles make no mention of them: yet that all men may see, how far you overshoot yourself, I will partly satisfy your request. Charles the great sought knowledge of the truth of the sacrament of Bertramus. john, Duke of Lancaster, and divers other noble men were instructed in our Religion by Wickleve. The land of Bohemia, was converted by john Hus, and Hieronym of prague, and sought the sacraments of them. Finally, you always forget the Greek church, which you do not account part of the Catholic church, and yet you can not deny but men have sought justice, sacraments, faith, etc. of it. Therefore if a man might trust you upon your word, you recant. The 10. article containeth in effect but 2. demands. 1 Moreover I ask whether for all these many hundredth of years or ever else before there was any temporal Prince or Potentate, that offered to be under God a minister of justice and an executor of Christian laws in the right of your Congregation, that ever maintained by laws Civil or other, your Faith and Congregation, and I recant. BEfore the general defection, it is an easy matter, to name you the Emperors and Princes which both offered, to be ministers of justice in the right of our church, and also maintained our faith and Congregation, by Civil laws, as Constantine the great, iovinianus, Valentinianus, Theodosius, Archadius, Honorius, Marcianus, justinianus, Mauricius, and divers other. But when the kings of the earth had committed fornication with the great whore of Babylon (as the holy Ghost foreshoweth Apoc. 17. and 18.) it is no prejudice to our cause if we can not show, any of them that have maintained our Religion. Yet because you make so gentle an offer upon the trial of such a matter, which is of small force either to the hurt of our cause or the maintenance of yours, I will let you understand what I have read for this purpose. Not doubting but other which have read much more, and seen more ancient histories than I, can show you a great deal more. I pass over as to well known, how many of the Graecian Emperors resisted the setting up of Images, in so much that in the Greek church to this day they can abide none in their temples, likewise I pass over Charles the great, who wrote a book against Images, which is in print, who also declared, that he liked not the heresy of the real presence and transubstantiation, which in his time was in forging, in that he called Bertrame, to declare his mind of that matter, as appeareth by his book, which is also in print. I will not rehearse those princes, that contrary to the Pope's laws, defended their priests, that were married: For although these and such like defended some part of the truth, which we hold against you, yet jest you should object, it was but in some one or two points, I pass them over with silence. But Wickleve, I ween, you will not deny, but he was of our Church and Religion. And I read that king Edward the third, both in his Parliament holden Anno Domini, 1371. and at other times with divers other noble men defended his cause: in so much that so long as he lived, all the popish bishops, could do him no harm, yet did he openly inveigh against the Pope, calling him Antichrist, and all popish doctrine without any colour or dissimulation both in the university of Oxeford, where he was reader, and also in his sermons abroad, as appeareth by his books and English homilies, which yet are common to be seen, with unless he had been supported, and maintained by the king and other potentates, could never have continued so long as he did. Further, have you not heard of Zisca, and Procopius, two mighty Captains, which defended the Bohemians from the tyranny both of the Emperor, the Pope, and almost all the Princes of Germany? For what cause did Paul the second Anno Domini, 1466. condemn George, a noble and a worthy Prince, king of Bohemia for an heretic? and deprived him of his kingdom? was it not for defending the Protestants in his dominion? Thus you see that some Princes and Potentates have not only offered but have in deed, taken in hand to defend our church, which you thought unable to be showed, wherefore I challenge your promise, you must recant. The 11. article is so confuse that it is hard to bring it into any certain numbered of demands. 1 Again I require of the Protestants to declare by good histories, or by reasonable likelihood when the true church, as they count theirs, decayed? I Answer, even in the Apostles time, there arose many heresies which did not a little trouble the Church, but immediately after the Apostles time, while the fathers of the church were earnestly occupied, in resisting of horrible heresies, by the craft of Satan, some errors and abuses crept into the true Church of Christ, which at the first because they were small, and men occupied in greater matters, were either not espied, or not regarded: as may be known by the writings of justinus Martyr, and Irenaeus, two of the most ancient writers, sense the Apostles time. justinus, was in this error, that he thought that the Angels lusted after women and therefore were turned into Devils. It seemeth also, that the Church in his time, was in some error, about second marriages and divorcements. Irenaeus, affirmeth, that our Saviour Christ lived here 50. years, which he sayeth was received of them that heard it, even of the Apostles mouths. Also both he and Papias, which was before him and was the disciple of S. john: are charged by S. jeronym, in Catalogo Script. Eccl. to have held this error, that Christ should reign a thousand years after the Resurrection here in the flesh, whereby it is manifest, seeing these ancient fathers, and pillars of the Church were thus stained with errors, that the Church in their time, could not be free from the same. And so it is evident, that the true Church decayed immediately after the Apostles times. 2 What year the Religion of the Papists came in and prevailed? ALthough many abuses and corruptions were entered into the church of Christ immediately after the Apostles time, which the devil planted as a preparative for his eldest son Antichrist. Yet we may well say, that the religion of the Papist●s came in, and prevailed, that year in which the Pope first obtained his Antichristian exaltation, which was in the year of our Lord 607. when Boniface the third, for a great sum of money, obtained of Phocas, the traitorous murderer, and adulterous Emperor, that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted, the head of all the Church. Since that time, that devilish heresy hath always increased in error, until the year of our Lord 1414. in which the Council of Constance decreed, to rob the people of the Sacrament of Christ his blood. From this time it hath again decayed, being mightily subdued by the bright beams of the Gospel, shining in the world, and at the length shall be utterly destroyed. 3 Whether all their true Church was so sound sleeping, that none could preach against it as it first entered. 1. Thess. 2. Math. 24. WHen the coming of Antichrist was in all power of lying signs, and wonders, in so much (that if it were possible) the very elect should be deceived, and a general departing from the faith was foreshowed, and the Church to be driven into the wilderness, what marvel were it? if none of our Church could preach against it, as it first entered: yet because you speak of the first entering of popish religion, which dependeth chief upon the Pope's authority, you shall hear, that when it first began to advance itself, there wanted not some, either to preach or writ against it. When Victor, bishop of Rome about the year of our Lord 200. passed the bonds of his authority, in excommunicating of all the Churches of Asia, many bishops withstood him, and especially Irenaeus, bishop of Lions, and Polycrates of Ephesus, as witnesseth Eusebius, libro 5. cap. 25. Eccle. S. Cyprian, also reproveth Cornelius, bishop of Rome, for that he was moved by threatening of heretics to receive their letters, & did not sand them back into Africa, to their own bishop lib. 1. Ep. 3. Also when Stephanus, bishop of Rome, was bold to communicate with Basilides, and Martialis, two Spaniards, that were justly excommunicated and deposed by the bishops of their own province, & sought to restore them: Cyprian and his fellow bishops of Aphrica, being required to give their advise, gave counsel, that in no wise they should be received, not a little blaming Stephanus, that being far of, and ignorant of their cause; he would take upon him, to defend such wicked men. lib. 1. Ep. 4. Likewise when the same Stephanus, threatened excommunication to Helenus and Firmilianus, and almost all the Churches of Asia, because they thought that such as were baptised by heretics, should be baptised again: he was misliked by Dionysius of Alexandria, and divers other godly bishops, as appeareth by his Epistle written to Xystus. Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 5. Cyprian also reproveth him very sharply, for the same opinion, accusing him of presumption and contumacy Epi. ad Pompeium, and in his epistle to Quintinus, he saith plainly, that Peter himself was not so arrogant, nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacy, & that other men should obey him as his inferiors. When Anastasius, Innocentius, Zozimus, Caelestinus, bishops of Rome all on a row, challenged prerogative over the bishops in Aphrica, by forging a false Canon of the Nicene Council, they were withstood by all the bishops of Aphrica, who decreed, that none under pain of excommunication, should appeal to any bishop, beyond the sea. Concil. Aphrican. cap. 92. and that the bishop of the chief see, should not be called prince of priests, or highest priest, but only bishop of the chief see. Conc. Aph. cap. 6. When Celestinus bishop of Rome dealt hardly with the novatians, Socrates testifieth, he could do not good with them, because they envied his ambition, saying that the bishopric of Rome, like as of Alexandria, was long before grown beyond the bonds of priesthood, into foreign lordship. Lib. 7. cap. 11. By these examples it is plain, that although the mystery of iniquity, began to work in Victor, Cornelius, Stephanus, Anastasius, Innocentius, Zozimus, Bonifacius, and Caelestinus, yet it was reproved, by some godly men: as Irenaeus, Polycrates, Dionysius Alexandrinus, Cyprianus, the Council of Aphrica, and Socrates the Historiographer. 4 Whether all nations suddenly and in one year were moved to the doctrine of the Papists, no one man of all their true Church neither preaching, teaching, writing, nor attempting any thing against it, or making mention of it. WHen the scripture telleth us, that the mystery of iniquity, preparing for the general defection, and revelation of Antichrist, wrought even in S. Paul's time 2. Thess. 2. it is folly to ask, whether suddenly and in one year all Religion was corrupted. And yet all nations never consented to the doctrine of the Papists, for as it hath been often said, the Greek church, and other oriental churches, hath never received the Popish religion, in many chief points, and especially, in acknowledging the Pope's authority: what preaching, teaching, and writing hath been against it, is showed before, and shallbe more declared hereafter. 5 Whether suddenly all books of service were altered? NOT forsooth, but by little and little, in the Latin Church: as for the Greek & oriental Churches, never received nor used your Latin service books. 6 Whether in a moment, the Mass was said in steed of other apostolic Communion? WHen Durande, your own doctor, showeth what Pope sewed on every patch, that belongeth to your Mass, it were folly for us to say: it came in suddenly, and impudency in you, to affirm that it came whole from the Apostles, which was so long a framing in so many pieces. 7 Whether men began suddenly to pray for the souls departed? FIrst it is manifest, that men had no warrant out of God his word to pray for the dead: and it can not be proved for 200, years after Christ, by any credible author, that it was used in the Church: wherefore it is certain, that it was first planted by the devil, as were other abuses: And because it hath a pretence of Charity, deceived simple men the sooner. Yet did it not so prevail, in the primitive Church, that they durst define, what profit the souls received thereby: for Chrysostome in his 3. Homely, upon the first Chapter of the Epist. to the Philippians, sayeth: Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij, modici quidem, attamen iuuemus eos. Let us procure them some help, small help truly, but yet let us help them. Likewise, Augustine in the 9 book and 13. Chapter of his confessions, where he prayeth for his father and mother, declareth how uncertain he was of that matter, one while he feareth the danger of every soul that dieth in Adam: An other while he believeth, that they need not his prayer, yet he desireth God to accept the same, and move other men to remember them in their prayers: Thus it is necessary that they wander, which lean unto men's traditions without the word of God. 8 Suddenly required the help of Saints in heaven? whether suddenly or by little and little, men were brought to such superstition, that they required help of Saints, it maketh little matter, seeing it is contrary to the word of God, and the example of the primitive Church, for 200. years after Christ. Yet it is to be thought, that it grew up, as other errors, by little and little. And S. Augustine in his book, De cura pro mortuis agenda, wearieth himself, and in the end can define nothing, in certain, how the Saints in heaven should hear the prayers of men, on earth. Such doubtfulness they fall into, that leave the word of God, and leave to traditions. 9 Suddenly the tongue of common prayers altered? FIrst the greek church, & other churches both in Asia, & Aethiopia, never received the Latin tongue: but to this day continued in their vulgar tongue. The Western Church, for the most part all spoke and understood Latin, as the sea coast of Aphrica, italy, France, Spain, Britain: as for Germany, was lately converted to the faith. Then seeing they spoke Latin, and had their common prayer in Latin: The tongue of their common prayer was not altered, but their speech was altered from the tongue of their common prayer: and this was not suddenly, for it was more than twelve hundred years after Christ before it wa● taken for a Catholic doctrine, that common prayer should be used in latin. S. Augustine preached in latin & all the people understood him, and that they might the better understand him, he doth use such phrases and terms which were not pure latin, but commonly used of the people as Ossum, and Foenerare, etc. But soon after his time, when the Goths, and vandals, overran the Empire, the latin tongue which before was not pure among the people, began daily to be more corrupted, and yet remained after a sort latin, until the year of our Lord 768. when Charles the great began to r●igne in France, and long after: for within the time of his reign, which was 47. years, a Council was holden at Turon, in France, what year it is not certain, but it is probable, that in the latter end of his empire, in which it was decreed, that every bishop, should have certain homilies. Et easdem quisque apertè studeat transfer in rusticam Romanam linguam aut Theotiscam; quo facilius cuncti possint intelligere quae dicuntur. Turon. 3. cap. 17. And that every one study to translate them plainly, into the rustical Roman tongue or into the Theotisce tongue, that all men may more easily understand what is said. By this Canon, it is evident, that at this time, the people understood the Latin tongue, though it were very rude and rustical. And where the Canon prescribeth the same homilies to be translated either into the rude latin tongue, or into the Theotisce tongue. Although this word Theotisca, seem to be corrupted, yet it is most certain that they meant Dutch tongue, for as much as Carolus magnus, had a great part of Germany under his dominion, and the Germans, as never thoroughly subdued by the Romans, never thoroughly received the latin tongue. Yet it is manifest, that they understood their common prayer in the latin tongue, though not perfectly, because the Canon saith: Quo facilius etc. That all men may more easily understand, signifying that they understood the pure latin tongue though hardly and not perfectly. About the year of our Lord 813. the knowledge of the latin tongue, began more and more to wear away, from amongst the common people, which when the bishops perceived, they decreed in the Council of Magunce, cap. 25. that every sunday, and holy day, there should be a sermon in such sort, that the common people might understand it: and in the 45. Canon. they decreed, that every Christian, should learn the Creed, and the Lord his prayer, Et qui aliter non potuerit, vel in sua lingua hoc discat, that is, And he that can not, yet let him learn it in his own tongue. Whereby they declare, that they desire to retain the latin tongue still, but rather than the people should be ignorant, they command them to learn their prayers and belief in their mother tongue. Also by the 43. Canon, wherein they judge that no priest can say Mass alone, it appeareth that the people commonly understood the latin service: for they ask how he should say: Dominus vobiscum, and admonish the people to lift up their hearts, and divers like sayings, where there is none by him but himself. Now if the people understood not these sayings, it were all one, whether they were present or absent. Also in the Council of Rhein's, holden in France about the same time, the like decree was made cap. 15. that bishops study to preach sermons, and homilies of the holy fathers so that all men may understand, according to the property of their tongue. Finally in the Council of Laterane holden under Pope Innocent the third, Anno Dom. 1215. in which Council transubstantiation was first established, the 9 chapter, it was plainly decreed that forasmuch as within one city and diocese people of divers languages be mingled together, having under one Faith, divers rites, and manners, we straightly command, that the bishops of such cities and dioceses, provide able men, which according to the diversity of their rites, and languages, celebrated unto them, the divine service, and minister the sacraments, instructing them both by word and example. Hereby it appeareth, that when the latin tongue, was either almost, or altogether grown out of the common people's understandings, order was taken that common prayers should be said and sacraments ministered in the mother tongue of every nation. But the bishops which should have seen it put in execution, either negligently omitted it, or willingly refused to do it, because it was more for their profit to keep the people in blind ignorance. So thus I have showed, that suddenly the tongue of common prayer, was not altered. 10 Tell me what year of our Lord, under what Emperor, under what Pope, by whom these things were wrought, upon what occasion, this marvelous mutation was made? WHo can tell the original of every blind custom and peevish tradition, of every old error and foolish fashion it is sufficient to show, that these things have no ground in the scripture of God, they were not taught by Christ and his Apostles, nor received in the church that followed immediately after them, and then we are bold to say, with Tertullian: This prejudice there is against all heresies, how soever they came up or when soever they sprang up, That is true that was first, and that is false, that is latter, therefore from the beginning it was not used to pray for the dead nor to the dead, from the beginning common prayer was not in an unknown tongue. Wherefore prayer for the dead and to the dead, with prayer in a strange tongue are false, when soever they began, or how long soever they continued. 11 Who preached against it, what history maketh mention of it, who of all your Pastors preached against it, was God his Church so void of the spirit of Truth, and strength, that even then when it most flourished, it had none that durst open against ●uch corruption of religion, as it entered in, and when it might soon have been repressed? BEfore you demand what year the religion of the Papists came, in and whether it came in suddenly: and as though we should answer that it came in suddenly, you demand, who preached against it etc. This is to fight with your own shadow: for we say not that it came in suddenly, but that it entered by small degrees at the first and therefore was less espied by the true Pastors, especially being earnestly occupied against great heresies, and open adversaries, that sought to beat down the chief foundations of Christian faith, as the Valentinians, marcionists, Manichees, Arrians, Sabellians, and such like monsters. So when Satan had gotten in one foot, by such crafty polity, he never rested, until he had thrust in his whole body, with the power of Antichrist. 12 If it could not, show me then what year of the Lord this mutation was made, and who of all the true preachers did with stand this doctrine? SO often as you demand one thing, so often must I answer after one sort, this mutation was not all in one year, nor in one hundredth years, nor in one thousand of years, for transubstantiation no small article of your religion, was not decreed until the year of God 1215. what preachers have withstood your doctrine at divers times are declared before in the answer to the 8. Article 2. demand. 13 Or note the name of him that ever first preached any article of our doctrine: and if we note you not by their names, every one of your Captains, and the several errors that they taught and the time, and the year when they arose against the former received truth and the councils in which they were orderly condemned if I, say this can be done of your side toward us, or if we do it not for improofe of your Church and religion, I recant. I Have noted in the answer to the 6. article 3. demand, the names of divers heretics, that first preached divers articles of your religion, and further I note unto you Pelagius, and Coelestius, which taught that free will without grace could do somewhat towards eternal salvation, and that grace was given according to merit, which article you teach also with colour of a distinction De congruo & condigno, which is a mere cavil: for God is as much bound unto congruity, as to dignity or worthiness, and as he can do nothing against worthiness, no more can he do any thing against congruity, which is a kind of Equity. And whereas you brag, to note unto us every one of our Captains etc. except you note unto us the patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Evangelists, and Christ himself, you shall never be able to perform that you promise', for we teach nothing but the eternal truth of God, wherefore we refuse not to be counted heretics, if you can prove, that we hold any one article of faith, contrary to the scripture: you may perchance note the names of them, that preaching the truth of our doctrine, against your received errors, were accounted of the world for heretics, but you must prove that their opinions are contrary to the word of God, or else all your labour is in vain: we confess also, that some articles of our doctrine, were taught by heretics, as there was never no heresy, which had not many things common with true Religion, but yet in those points they were no heretics, neither did they err. Yea but you will say, they were condemned for those opinions, as erroneous. I will not dissemble, that which you think the greatest matter. Aerius taught, that prayer for the dead was unprofitable, as witnesseth both Epiphanius, and Augustinus, which they count for an error, but neither of them both, reproveth it by the scripture. Wherefore, if Aerius had not been an Arrian, this opinion could not have made him an heretic. Also he taught that fasting days are not to be observed, if he espied the superstition of fasting days and reproved it, that was no error at all. But if Aerius was an heretic, for denying prayer for the dead to be profitable, why were the Heracleonites, accused of heresy, because they buried their dead with invocations Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. Haeres. 36. Augustine, also by authority of Philaster chargeth the same Aerius, with abstinence from flesh, if this be an heresy, then be all Papists heretics, which count abstinence from flesh an holy fast. Again you will bring in Jovinian, which affirmed that virginity was no better than marriage, which if it be well understood, is no error at all: for although virginity in some cases and respects, and for some persons is better than marriage: yet is it not simply, that is in all respects and cases, and for all persons better than matrimony. And if he taught further that such as could not contain, though they had vowed Virginity, should nevertheless be married, this was the doctrine of S. Paul: It is better to marry than to burn. And Epiphanius was of the same judgement, although he count it an offence to marry after their vow, yet he sayeth: It is better to marry then to burn. Melius est itaque unum peccatum habere, & non plura, etc. It is better to have one offence, rather than many. It is better for him that is fallen from his course, openly to take a wife according to the law, and to repent long time that vow of his virginity, and so again be brought into the Church, as one that hath done amiss, as one that is fallen and broken, and having need to be bound: rather than to be wounded daily, with privy darts of that wickedness, which the devil putteth into him. So knoweth the Church to preach, these are the medicines of healing. Ep. lib. 2. Haer. 61. this medicine the popish church will not acknowledge, but will separate them from their wives, as they did in Queen Mary's times. S. jeronym also, who was a most bitter enemy unto jovinian, plainly affirmeth, that rather than they which have professed virginity, should live incontinently, they aught to marry. Sanctum Virginum propositum & coelestis angelorúmque familiae gloriam, quarundam non bene se agentium nomen infamat. Quibus apart dicendum est, ut aut nubant, si se non possunt continere, aut contineant, si nolunt nubere. Epi. ad Demetriadem. That is: The name of certain virgins, which behave themselves not well, doth blemish the holy purpose of virginity, and glory of the heavenly and angelic family. To whom must be plainly said that either they should marry, if they can not contain, or else contain if they will not marry. Note well this saying of S. jeronym, the great advancer of virginity, and dispraiser of marriage. Moreover if jovinian taught that fasting, abstinence from certain meats, and other bodily exercise of themselves profit little, his doctrine agreeth with S. Paul. 1. Tim. 4. but if he taught (as he is charged) that such things profited nothing at all, we agreed not with him in that opinion. Last of all Vigilantius, shall be brought in, who wrote against invocation of Saints, superstition of relics, and other ceremonies, him jeronym reproveth or rather raileth on him: for his reasons are nothing worth that he hath against him, therefore howsoever jeronym esteemed him in his rage, if he had none other opinions contrary to the truth: we doubt not to acknowledge Vigilantius (as many godly and learned Bishops of his time did) for a true preacher and reprehender of that superstition whereunto jeronym was to much addict, although he do somewhat qualify the matter. If any man think his reasons to be effectual, let him ma●ke this one, that he useth, and thereby judge the rest, he saith of the Martyrs: Sequuntur agnum, etc. They follow the lamb whether soever he goeth. If the lamb be every where, therefore they which are with the lamb, are to be thought to be every where. Beside this evil consequence, consider what perilous assertions these be: that the lamb is every where, & that the martyrs are every where, this is to destroy the humanity of Christ, and to give divinity unto the Martyrs: for Christ concerning his humanity, according to which, he is called a Lamb, is not every where, but in one place alone, as S. Augustine saith Ep. add Dardanum 57 Secundum hanc formam non est putandus ubique diffusus, that is: According to this form it is not to be thought, that he is diffused every where. Again no creature is every where, in more places than one, at one time. Wherefore to say that the souls of Martyrs, be every where, is to deny them to be creatures and so make them gods. I doubt not but S. jeronym if he had quietly considered these absurdities, would have revoked them as erroneous and heretical: but while he rather followed affection, than judgement, you may see how he was deceived. Thus seeing we have noted to you the names of diverse heretics, which first preached certain articles of your doctrine, and you are not able to name any, which preached any article of our doctrine, but the same was consonant to the Scripture. If you were as ready to perform, as you are to promise', you should recant. 14 And for that purpose because the government of the Bishop of Rome is most misliked of them, and yet most notoriously known by every history, let them name the Pope that first broke of the course of his forefather's belief, & regiment in any article of faith or necessary Christian usage, and I recant. I Have named before Victor, which was the first that went about to usurp authority over other Churches. Also I have named Boniface, the third, which was the first that challenged to be universal bishop: For Gregory the great sayeth: Nemo meorum decessorum hoc prophano vocabulo uti voluit, That is: None of my predecessors would use this profane word. The same Gregory, as Hulderichus, bishop of Auspourge doth testify, was the first that compelled priests to live unmarried, which afterward when he saw the inconvenience, he revoked. Thus having named divers Popes that first broke the course of their father's faith, and regiment etc. and more could rehearse but for avoiding prolixity, I challenge your promise that you must recant. The 12. article hath 3. demands. 1 Item I ask what kind and order of service, or common prayer, what way of ministering of the sacraments your Church had: before Papistry (as you call it) did prevail in the world? IVstinus Martyr, in his second apology to the Emperor, declareth plainly what order of service and ministration of sacraments our Church had before Papistry prevailed. On the day called Sunday (saith he) there is a meeting together of all them that devil in the City or in the country, and the monuments of the Apostles, or the writings of the Prophets are read until it be thought sufficient, when the reader hath made an end, he that is our overseer (or chief minister) maketh a sermon of admonition and exhortation to follow those good things that are read. After this we all stand up together and make our prayers, and as we have said before, when our prayers are ended, there is brought forth bread and wine & water, and the chief minister, doth likewise with all his might yield prayers and thanksgiving, and the people answereth Amen. Then is made distribution to every one and receiving of those things for which thanks was given, and to them that be absent, it is sent by the deacons. Such as are rich and willing do give alms what they will, etc. By this one authority, it may be seen though other might be brought, what order of service and ministration of sacraments our Church used before Papistry got the upper hand. 2 Show one book of Communion or what else you list that was in English, or lacked prayer for the departed, or invocation of Saints in heaven, or that wanted oblation, or sacrifice, or that charged a number to receive, or else that the priest could not consecrated nor say Mass, himself, or show any note in a Communion book, that the people should take the sacrament for plain bread, or that they should give no honour to it, show this book or any leaf or line of this book. IT may trouble a wise man to answer all the questions that a fool can propound: you require to see a book of Communion in English, or that lacked etc. When it is confessed, that the English nation received their religion first from Rome, at such time as Religion there was very corrupt, what marvel is it, if we can not show you such a Communion book as you require, but we can easily show you out of the scripture, the the Communion aught to be ministered in the vulgar tongue, that prayer for the dead and to the dead aught not to be used, that the sacrament aught not to be turned into a sacrifice, that there aught to be a communion of many receivers and not a private mass, that the substance of the bread is not changed, that the elements of the sacrament are not to be honoured: these I say we can prove out of the word of God, the Catholic writers of the old Church. And though perchance, it willbe hard to find a communion book in English, yet have I found you a canon of the Laterane Council, that it aught to have been translated into English, yet are there found divers monuments of Antiquity, as Prayers, Psalms, and Homilies, etc. in the old English or Saxons tongue, in which the real presence, transubstantiation, and other points of Popish doctrine are plainly confuted. There may be showed you also bibles both the old Testament and New in the English tongue of divers translations, in old written hand. Also great books of English homilies inveighing directly against the Pope and all Popish doctrine in old English written hand, with divers other small treatises and pamphlets of like matters, if these would do you any good, you might have the sight of them, when you please. 3 Or any Church or Congregation that ever had any Authentical service but ours, and I recant. THe Church of the Brytannes before Augustine came in, with Romish service, had they not trow you Authentical service? which continued in the faith of Christ even from the Apostles time. The Grecians also & oriental churches, have they not unto this day, their Authentical service? which is not yours? If you can not deny this, you should recant. The 13. article hath 2. demands. 1 Furthermore I require to know what should be the cause that the Protestants themselves, do receive all Bishops, Priests, Deacons, and other officers spiritual of all sorts of our Catholic church, and do admit them as men lawfully and sufficiently ordered, both to preach, minister sacraments, and to exercise spiritual jurisdiction no less, but rather more, than if they were of their own ordering, where we of the Catholic church, do not acknowledge any man of their calling to be any whit more fit for any spiritual function than other lay men. ALthough all godly men wish more severity of discipline to be used, in receiving them that come out of heresies to serve in the Church, than is commonly practised in England: yet you are highly deceived, if you think we esteem your offices of Bishops, priests, deacons, any better than the state of lay men, but far worse: for we judge them to be nothing else but Antichristianitie, heresy, and blasphemy. And therefore we receive none of them to minister in our church, except they forswear your religion: And so their admission is not an allowing of your ordering, but a new calling unto the ministery. 2 Therefore upon this presumption that they do not only admit our ministering of sacraments, but also the lawful ordering of the ministers for the same, if they can show me why our church having by their own consent and approving lawful priests and bishops should not be the true church, I recant. YOu presume to much as I said before to think that we receive your ordering to be lawful or your ministering of sacraments to be pure. And if you gather, that we admit your ministration of sacraments because we do not rebaptize them that were baptised by you, we may likewise gather that you admit our ministration of sacraments, because you do not rebaptize them that are baptised of us, nor marry again those that are married in our Church: whereas you count marriage to be a sacrament, so that our accepting of your doings doth no more allow your church, than your accepting of our doings, doth allow our Church. And as touching the sacrament of Baptism, because you retain the Institution, in baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son, and the holy Ghost: and in as much as the sacraments take not their effect of the minister, but of God, we receive it: as of other heretics which likewise retain the Institution. Wherefore there is no cause why you should think we allow yours to be the true Church thereby: So that there is good cause why you should recant. The 14. article hath 5. demands. 1 Also I demand what furniture or commodity in serving God the Christianity of any age, or any part of Christendom had ever by your Congregations? THe service of God hath small need of furniture in outward things: for God being a spirit, is not worshipped with outward pomp but with spiritual and inward reverence. And as for other furniture that is necessary, was decreed to the Church by the Emperor Constantine and his successors, that were of our Church, before the revelation of Antichrist. Notwithstanding the Church was in better case, before such furniture was granted, than it was since. Therefore it is a small reason to challenge the Church of Christ by outward furniture. 2 What Churches did you build for your assemblies and service? Our assemblies were kept in secret places, long time after Christ's Ascension, in most countries, that were subject to the Roman empire. Wherefore the building of material churches proveth nothing at all the builders to be members of the mystical Church, that is the body of Christ. Howbeit in such realms and countries where the faith of Christ, was received by public authority, as in this land of Britain, there were churches builded as our Chronicles declare. And when Constantinus had given peace to the Church: he also builded Oratories and great synagogues called Basilicas, for our assemblies and service. 3 What bishoprics for the government of the Church did you find? AS the church continued long without material churches, so also without large possessions, for the living of bishops, yet in British Church our histories make mention that the possessions and places of the pagan Flamines, and Archiflamines were converted to the use of Ecclesiastical bishops and archbishops, so soon as Lucius, the king received the faith. Also the same histories do testify, that when Augustine came into britain, there were still 7. bishops and one archbishop among the Britain's. And in the Roman Empire Constantinus, and other Christian Emperors appointed great possessions for the maintaining of the ministers of the Church. 4 What Universities, Schools, or Colleges, did you ever erect? THe Church of God hath always had schools, or Universities for the maintenance of godly learning. For the first Colleges of monks in solitary places, were nothing else, but Colleges of students, that were after, as occasion served, taken to serve in the Church, as appeareth by Chrysostome in his book De Sacerdotio, where he showeth that Basilius, who was a Monk with him, was taken by violence and made a minister of the church, as he himself was afterward. Also in the bishop's house was a college of students: and our histories testify, that at Bangor, in Wales was a great University of learned men. Also of late days, you may hear that diverse Universities, Schools, and Colleges are erected by Protestants, in Germany, and other countries that have received the gospel: As at Wittemberge, Geneva, Zuriche, Conigsperge in Prussia, etc. 5 Name one Church, not builded in all fashions, as well for the making of the chancels, the form of the altars, the use of the chalices, the signification of the vestments, as also for the special intent of the builders thereof. Name one of them in the whole Church of Christ, either erected for your Faith, Church, & service, or not prepared, in all sorts for catholic practices: Prove unto me that any of all those things were ever provided for any other service and Religion than ours, or that they be monuments of any other Faith and Church then the common Catholic, and I recant. HEre are many words to little purpose. What if it were granted that all churches that now remain were builded by Papists, and for popish uses, what had you won thereby. The same challenge might the Idolaters have made to the Apostles: Show us a temple in all the world that was not builded by Idolaters, and to maintain Idolatry? Certainly they could show none when the Temple of jerusalem was destroyed. But for all your brags, we are able to show that such Churches as were builded by true Christians were not builded to such end as yours are: for they were all builded in the honour of God, and the most of yours in the honour of creatures: for whereas you have one Church in the honour of Christ, you have near a thousand in the honour of Saints: For Basilius magnus in his 141. epistle proveth the holy Ghost to be God because he hath a Temple. For Omne Templum Dei Templum est. Every temple is the temple of God. Also Didymus, in his book De spiritu sancto, which S. jeronym translateth, useth the same reason and to the same purpose. S. Augustine in the same matter is very plentiful: as in his book De vera Religione cap. 55. speaking of the Saints he saith: Quare honoramus eos charitate non servitute, nec eyes templa construimus, etc. Wherefore we honour them with love and not with service, neither do we build temples unto them: for they will not be so honoured of us because they know that we ourselves when we are good, are the temples of the highest. In this saying beside his judgement for building of temples, note that he will not have Saints to be honoured with service, which he calleth servitus, and is the same that is, contrary to the Papists which will worship them with service called , or servitus. Also in his 174. epistle to Pascentius, he saith, the holy Ghost could not have our bodies to be temples except he were God, And in his Enchiridion ad Laurentium, cap. 56. he saith: how should he not be God which hath a temple? Also in the 8. book cap. 27. De civitate Dei. Nec tamen nos ijsdem martyribus templa, etc. he sayeth: Christians build no temples unto Martyrs which were to make them gods. And in the 22, book cap. 10. De civitate Dei. Nos autem Martyribus nostris non templa sicut dijs, sed memorias sicut hominibus mortuis, quorum apud Deum viwnt spiritus fabricamus. Nec ibi erigimus altaria in quibus sacrificemus martyribus, sed uni Deo & martyrum & nostro sacrificium immolamus: ad quòd sacrificium sicut homines Dei, qui mundum in eius confession vicerunt, suo loco & ordine nominantur, non tamen à sacerdote qui sacrificat invocantur, Deo quip non ipsis sacrificat quamuis in memoria sacrificet eorum, quia Dei sacerdos est non illorum. Ipsum verò sacrificium corpus est Christi quod non offertur ipsis quia hoc sunt & ipsi. that is: We truly do not build temples to our martyrs as unto gods, but memories as unto dead men whose souls live with God. Neither do we there set up altars in which we should sacrifice unto the martyrs, but to God only which is God both of the martyrs and of us, do we offer sacrifice: at which sacrifice they are named in their place and order, as men of God which have overcome the world in his confession: yet are they not called upon by the Priest that doth sacrifice, for he offereth sacrifice to God and not to them although he do sacrifice in their memory, because he is the Priest of God and not of them, and the sacrifice is the body of Christ which is not offered unto them because they themselves are the same. Here also beside building of churches, note that no sacrifice aught to be offered to Martyrs, but prayer is a sacrifice, therefore it aught to be offered only to God. Secondly, that Martyrs were not called upon in time of the sacrifice but only named for remembrance. Thirdly, that Altars were not builded in the honour of Martyrs or other Saints as they be in Popish churches: as our Lady's altar. S. Peter's altar. S. Laurences altar etc. Fourthly, that the body of Christ, which he sayeth was the sacrifice that was offered, was not the natural body of Christ but his mystical body, because he sayeth the Martyrs and it are all one, whereby it is manifest, that he meaneth the sacrifice of thanks giving offered to God for the redemption of his church by the death of Christ. Wherefore if this one place were well weighed, it will interpret and answer all places of the ancient doctors, where mention is made of sacrificing the body of Christ at the time of the communion. But to return to building of churches the same Augustine, contra Maximinum Arrianum. Lib. Titul. 11. hath these words: Nunc si templum alicui sancto angelo excellentissimo de lignis & lapidibus faceremus, anathematizar emin a veritate Christi, & ab Ecclesia Dei, quoniam creaturae exhiberemus eam servitutem quae uni tantum debetur Deo? Si ergo sacrilegi essemus faciendo templum cuicunque creaturae, quomodo non est Deus verus cui non templum facimus, sed nos ipsi templum sumus? that is: If we should build a temple of wood and stones to any holy and most excellent Angel, should we not be accursed from the Truth of Christ and from the Church of God, because we should show that service unto a creature which is due only unto God? Therefore if we should be sacrileges by making a temple to any creature, how is he not true God to whom we do not make a temple, but we ourselves are a temple. If this be true, how be not the Papists accursed from the Truth of Christ, and from the Church of God which build and uphold churches to Angels, as S. Michael's, S. Gabriels', & c? So that to build churches as Papists do, is church robbing or sacrilege. Furthermore whereas you will us to name one church whose chancel is not builded in all fashions to serve popery. First it is manifest that the first Churches which were builded for Christians had not the same fashion of chancels and other parts that most churches have in England, for that purpose read the panegyrical oration made before Paulinus bishop of Tyrus. Euseb. lib. 10. cap. 4. In which is described the fashion of that church builded in that city far unlike the most part of churches at this day in all parts, and specially in the chancel which was in the midst of that church, a place compassed in with grates or wooden latesses called Cancelli, whereof this word chancel is derived, and the altar stood in the midst of it whereof some similitude remaineth yet in old Cathedral churches. Contrariwise your chancels in most churches be at the East end and the altar hard at the wall, there was also but one altar in that church, but you in every church must have many, it is certain also in their church the Ministers and Deacons stood round about the table or altar, but so they can not about your altars except some of them stand on the top of the wall or in the window. Moreover if you mark the most part of old churches in England you shall plainly see, that the chancels are but additions builded sense the churches, of likelihood by the parsons that disdained to have their place in the midst of the people as the old manner was. Also you may see some churches builded round: as at London the Temple, and another is at Cambridge of the same fashion. And some churches have the steeple at the Est end, very unhandsomely for placing of the rood loft. Again many churches have cross Isles in which the people can not see the chancel, nor the high altar, which argueth that there was no use of such chancels when they were builded: For such churches as are lately erected have the chancel and church all of one building, and are made of such fashion that men may see the high altar in every part of them: Beside this, in the oriental church, as their ceremonies are divers from yours, so no doubt the fashion of their temples differeth from yours. As for chalices, the church in the beginning was content with wooden cups, and then came Zepherinus and brought in the use of glasses. Acacius Amidenus is commended for selling the golden and silver vessels of the church, to redeem captives. Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 21. S. Ambrose also Offic. lib. 2. cap. 8. saith the church hath gold, not to keep it but to be bestowed for necessary uses, for which it is lawful to break, melt, and sell, even the holiest vessels of all. But of your church it is true that one said of old time: ye had wooden chalices, and golden priests but now you have golden chalices, and wooden priests: your vestiments are of as good stuff as your chalices. The old church knew none such, but as your own Authors writ: when they went to celebrated they changed the affection of their mind rather than the garments of their body: as Antoninus witnesseth of Fulgentius. Howbeit we are content that your church by her gorgeous garments as well as by other things should declare itself to be that woman which is described to be clothed in purple, gold, pearls, and such like ornaments Apoc. 17. Finally whereas you will us to name one church that for the special intent of the builders, was not prepared in all sorts for Popish practices: Although I could name many, yet for examples sake, I name Pantheon, a church in Rome, prepared by the special and only intent of the bvilder's fo● Cybelle, the great mother of the gods and for all false gods of the heathen, which now is called the church of Mary and Alhalowes. Then this church with many other in Rome, and other places, being monuments of the faith and religion of the Pagans and not of yours, except yours and theirs be all one, as they are very like, you are bound by your promise to recant. The 15. article containeth in effect 3. demands. 1 Again name any one company of men in the Christian world that in all articles of Faith, be in one meaning and belief. IT is an easy matter to name divers companies agreeing in one meaning & belief: as the church of the Grecians, the church of the Aethiopians, the church of the Chaldeans, Moscovites, etc. But especially the whole company of Protestants in Europe do agreed in all necessary articles of true faith, by which we are justified. 2 Or in things where they doubt, be contented to submit their several meaning to the judgement of their Superiors. THe Greek church in doubts will be ruled by the Patriarch of Constantinople, and so will the rest of the oriental churches by their chief patriarchs and bishops. And the Protestants in Europe will also be ruled by their Superiors, so far as their superiors are ruled by Gods his word. 3 And to that communion and company whereof they be, name any company of men agreeing and thus humbly affected in Christ's Religion, saving the blessed fellowship and members of the Catholic communion, and I recant. TO the communion and company of the Grecians, I name the Moscovites and Russians agreeing in Religion, and so humbly affected, and these are not of the fellowship, that you call the Catholic communion: Among the Protestants, to the church of Saxony, I name the church of Dennemarcke, or to the church of Hel●etia, the church of France, or to the church of England the church of Scotland, but so, that none of these allow any consent or submission, but to the Truth, which must be tried only by God his word. And seeing none of these are of the Popish communion, if your promise be any thing worth, you must recant. The 16. article containeth one demand, and one challenge. Furthermore name any one man that is confessed on both sides by the judgement of the world, to be holy and learned, & a member of the true Church, in what age soever you list sense Christ's time, and prove him to have been in all articles of Faith of the Protestants meaning. SEeing you give so large scope, I will name S. Paul, who I think is confessed on both sides to be holy and learned, and a member of the true Church, whom I can prove by his writings, that in all articles of faith, he taught the same, which we believe. And for trial of this, because it would require a whole volume, if I should prove every particular article, wherein we descent from you Papists: If you will name an article, wherein we agreed not with S. Paul, If I be not able to prove that we agreed with him in the meaning thereof, I will revoke that article and agreed with you therein. Yea if I bring not the adversaries themselves to acknowledge in the end him to be wholly against their doctrine in divers of articles of great importance, and therefore that he could not be of their church, I recant. YOu shall never bring us, neither in the beginning, nor in the end to acknowledge that S. Paul is against us in any article of our Faith, but we agreed wholly with him. Nevertheless I know what you mean, & will not be afraid to utter. Forasmuch as immediately after the Apostles time, corruption entered into the Church, which was hardly kept out, while they lived: as we may learn by the Epistle to the Corinthians, you think that we dare not depend upon any one man's judgement: and therein you are not deceived: for we must depend only upon God's word. But where you say there is none but he dissenteth from us in divers articles of great importance, you say untruly: for you are not able to prove that justinus Martyr, or Irenaeus, two of the most ancient authentical writers, that the Church next unto the Apostles had, are against us, in any point of doctrine wherein we differ from you? Yet are there certain errors in them, which neither you, nor we allow, as is touched before in the answer to the 11. article 1. deman. But they are both wholly against you in divers articles of your doctrine, and namely in transubstantiation, which is one of the greatest articles of Popery: as Irenaeus, in the 34. cap. of his 4. book Contra haereses: Quemadmodum enim qui est a terra panis & c Even as the bread▪ which is of the earth after it hath received the invocation of God, is not now common bread, but the eucharist, or (bread of thanks giving) consisting of two things earthly & heavenly, so our bodies receiving the eucharist, are not now corruptible, having hope of resurrection. Here you see plainly, that Irenaeus affirmeth the sacrament, after consecration to consist of the earthly substance of bread: which may better be understood, when we know that he reasoneth against such heretics as denied the world to be made by God, saying that he would never have made so great a mystery of bread, which is a creature of the world, if the world had not been made by him. justinus, in his second Apology to the Emperor. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 etc. We do not receive these things as common bread and a common cup but even as jesus Christ our Saviour was incarnate by the word of God and took upon him flesh and blood for our salvation: So we are taught that this meat for which thanks is given by the word of prayer from him of which our flesh and blood are nourished by transmutation, is the flesh and blood of jesus that was incarnate. Here, he plainly affirmeth that the substance of the Sacrament is turned into the nourishment of our bodies. Therefore it remaineth still after the consecration. The other writers of later years, as they have some errors which neither you nor we do allow in them, so we are not afraid to confess that they have some corruption, whereby you may seem to have colour of defence for invocation of Saints, prayer for the dead, and diverse superstitious and superfluous ceremonies, yet not so addict to these, nor joined with such absurdities as yours are. But for the chief points of Christian Religion, and the foundation of our faith, that is, for the honour of God, the offices of Christ, Redemption, justification, Satisfaction, the fruits of Christ his passion, Grace, faith, works, authority of God his word, authority of the Pope, real presence, transubstantiation, Communion in both kinds, Images, etc. the most approved writers Tertullian, Cyprian, Origen, Epiphanius, Hilarius, Chrysostomus, jeronymus, Ambrose, Augustinus, etc. are utterly against you, and therefore can not be of your church. But for as much as they hold the foundation, that is Christ, though they have diverse errors & superstitions, they were doubtless, the members of the true Church of Christ, which because you are not able to disprove, reason would you should recant. The 17. Article containeth 5. demands. 1 I ask of them whether the Lutherans, zwinglians, Illirians, Caluenistes, Confessionistes, Swenkefeldians, anabaptists and such like, be all of one Church? BEcause you would make simple men believe, that there be so many diverse sects of Protestants, as you have given them names, I will first discuss these sects, and afterward answer your question. Lutherans, you mean them that follow Luther's opinion of the Sacrament. zwinglians, follow calvin's judgement of the same. Confessionistes, them that exhibited their confession at Auspurge, which were both the Lutherans and zwinglians, so these 3, names may be contracted into two: Lutherans and zwinglians. As for Illyrians, if you call them of Flaccius Illyricus, they be Lutherans, in opinion of the Sacrament, and differ only in ceremonies, which can not divide them from the faith. Caluine, and they that be of his judgement, agreed plainly with Zuinglius, so that of five names, there remain but two sorts differing in opinion, whereunto you join the Swenkefeldians and anabaptists. Now to your question, these be not all of one Church, for the Swenkefeldians & Anabaptists be detestable heretics, but the Lutherans & Zwinglians (as it pleaseth you to call them) are of one true church, although they differ in one opinion, concerning the Sacrament, for although the one affirm a real presence, the other deny it, yet they both consent in this, that the body of Christ, is received spiritually, not corporally, with the heart, and not with the mouth. Wherefore, this dissension is not so great (though there be error on the one side) but that they may be both of the Church of Christ, as well as S. Cyprian, the Martyr, and all the Bishops of Africa, and a great many of Asia, differing with Stephanus, bishop of Rome, and the rest of his opinion in rebaptizing such as were baptised by heretics. 2 And if either they can prove unto me, that these, being of such diversity in faith and religion make one Church. WE have always abhorred the heresies of the anabaptists, Libertines, Swenkefeldians, Davidians, Seruitians, and all such. But that Luther & Zuinglius, may be both of one Church, differing only in one opinion of the Sacrament, is declared before. 3 Or that each of their sects may give salvation to their followers, being so disagreeable, one with an other in high points of our Religion. Salvation is the gift of God, and not in the power of any company, or sect of men: but this we affirm, that out of that Church, whereof we count Luther, and Zuinglius, notwithstanding their diverse opinions (which is but in one matter of the Sacrament) to be members, there is no salvation. 4 Or that I should believe all these rather than the Catholic Church, or one of these more than another, all making such a bold challenge of the truth and Gospel. NO man requireth you to believe all these, but the true Catholic Church only. Neither do we requited you to believe any one company of men, more than an other: but to believe the truth before falsehood. Now, which of them hath the truth, that they all brag of, you must search in the word of truth, desiring the spirit of truth that you may understand and believe the truth, and so without doubt, you shall come to the knowledge of the truth, and of the Church of God, which is the pillar and stay of truth. 5 Let the Protestants of all these kinds put their heads together, and show me a reason of these things, and with all, let them among themselves agreed, to what sort of these sects they would have me, and I will recant. Such is your impudency in this matter, as in all other, that you would make men believe that the anabaptists, Swenkefeldians, libertines, and other abominable heretics, be Protestants: But it is well that you can make none but fools think so: as for the Protestants, they need take no great deliberation to answer your demands but you had more need to say your heads together to reconcile the Thomists, Albertistes, Ockamistes, Scotistes, Reales, and Nominals, which be all sects of Papists, and especially your canonists, and divines, about the articles of your religion, that is: whether the Pope be above the Council, or the Council above the Pope. Whether the Pope may err and not the Council, or whether the Council may err and not the Pope. These two: the Pope's determination and the councils determination, being the rules of truth in your religion and not agreed upon: how can any truth be certain in your Church? As for Luther, and Zuinglius, they agreed upon one rule of truth, that is the word of God, and differ only for the applying or laying of this rule, & yet but in one matter & that not the greatest. But you Papists, some holding of the Pope, and some of the Council, as rules of truth, can have no ground nor certainty thereof. Therefore if you would have me, or any man, to be of your belief. First determine how I shall know when I am in a right belief: one sayeth, if the council alloweth it, an other sayeth if the Pope alloweth, what shall I do, when one of these is against an other? yea when one Pope is against an other, and one council against an other, shall I think that truth changeth so often as they change. Moreover when one Pope granteth, that the council is above the Pope and that the Pope may err. Likewise one council granteth, that the Pope is above the council and that the council may err, as it hath been within the 200. years, the councils of Constance and Basill, determined that the council was above the Pope and that the Pope may err. Contrariwise, the council of Ferraria, and Florence, determined that the Pope was above the council and that the council might err. Martinus 5. the Pope chosen by the council of Constance, was of the same judgement that the council: But Eugenius 4. that gathered the council of Ferraria, and Florence against the council of Basill, was of the contrary judgement. Now I would say he were a witty fellow, that could reconcile this gear together. For, if he be a Canonist that holdeth this opinion: that the Pope can not err, when the Pope himself granteth that he may err, which way shall he turn himself? For, if this proposition be true: the Pope can not err, than this is true also, that the Pope may err: for if he can not err he can not err in saying so: And if the Pope erred in saying, he could err where he can not err, than this proposition is false, the Pope can not err, so one proposition shallbe both true and false, which is impossible. Likewise if he hold that hold that the council can not err, and the council itself confesseth it that it may err. Gentle master N. reconcile me these together, which concern a case that hath been in practice and still is, in the Papistry, and may here trouble a man's conscience that would believe your church, and if he have any wit, restrain him for ever coming into your church: If you can not untie this knot nor wind yourself out of this maze, unless you will be still obstinate, it were wisdom for you to recant. The 18. article hath but one demand. I demand whether they were ever of the true Catholic church, which either took to themselves new names of religion according to the calling of any sect master, or liked not so well the name of Catholic or Christian as of their several teachers, as to be called of Arius, Arians, or of Caluine, calvinists, or of Luther, Lutherans, or Protestants etc. if any man therefore can prove unto me that men which have chosen to themselves to declare their diversity of faith, from the common known Catholic church such new names, should be of the Catholic church, I recant. I Answer that they which can not be content with the name of Christians, but chose unto themselves new names after the calling of their sect masters: as Arrians, Pelagians, franciscans, dominicans, Benedictines, Gilbertines, Augustinians, Scotistes, Thomists, Albertistes, etc. are none of the Catholic church: But the true Christians which desire most of all to be so called, and counting it a most honourable name without choosing any other name, be of the Catholic church, although in reproach, they be called of you calvinists, and Lutherans. As for the name of Protestants, came first of them that made protestation against the decree of Spires in Germany, and from that time hath been attributed to the professors of the Gospel: which name they do not so much delight in, as you do in the name of Papists. Therefore, if nothing else do let you but the name▪ there is no cause why you should not recant. The 19 article hath but one demand. Again, if these, which by the common calling and judgement of Christian people, be named and commonly taken for heretics, have not in all ages proved themselves in the end to be heretics in deed, notwithstanding their craking of God's word, and therefore that the Protestants being so taken and called, prove not so in deed, I recant. THose that by true Christians, have been called and counted for heretics, have proved so in deed, and therefore the Papists, being called and counted heretics of true Christians, without doubt, are heretics in deed. But it hath not been always true, that they, which of the people commonly called Christians, were called and taken for heretics, proved so in deed. For the true Christians of the Arrian people, that were called Christian people, were called and taken for heretics, and in reproach, were called Homousians, and Athanasians, yet they proved and were in deed, true Christians and no heretics. So the true Christians at this day, being of the Papists, which after a sort, are named Christians: called heretics, and in reproach Protestants, and calvinists, in that their faith agreeth with the word of God, prove themselves in deed, to be true Christians, & no heretics. Therefore you have bound yourself to recant. The 20. article hath 3. demands. 1 Likewise, if any man can prove unto me, that either those be not true Christians, which by the consent of nations, and by old prescription of so many years as be sigh their conversion, be and ever hath been called Catholics. YOu yourselves, will not account the Grecians for true Christians, and yet by consent of nations, and prescription of as many years as you can prescribe, they be, and ever have been called Catholics, if you say: they, are not called by you, I answer: no more are you so called by them. And sense the time that you departed from them, as great a portion of the world, and as many nations, have called them Catholics, as you are able to show on your side. Therefore either you must count them true Christians, or else you must grant that they, which have been long called Catholics, are not always true Christians. 2 Or that those can be any true members, or children of the Catholic church, which do mislike and mistrust so farforth these holy names, as well of Church, as Catholic that they have turned them into Congregations, and Gospelers, and Protestants, and such like. HE is a foolish sophister, that reasoneth from names to things, as you do most vainly and childishly: we mislike the names of Church, & Catholic, because we do sometimes use these names: Congregation, and Gospelers or Protestants, and therefore be no true members of the Catholic church: we neither mislike nor mistrust those names as you slander us, neither do we boast and trust only in these names, without the things themselves, as you do, and as your forefathers the wicked jews, crying: the Temple of the Lord, the Temple of the Lord, the Temple of the Lord: when they had nothing less than the Temple of the Lord, but rather a den of thieves: So, you cry, the Catholic church, the Catholic church, the Catholic church, when you have nothing in deed but the synagogue of Satan. But because you make so much of these two names, Church, and Catholic, let us see what great mysteries are contained in them. This word, Church, cometh of the Greek word Kyriaka, in Latin Dominica, in English, the Lord his house: for so were they wont, in old time to call their temples, or oratory's, so that this word, church, properly signifieth a material temple, and can not signify the fellowship and communion of Christian people, but by a figure. Therefore if we other whiles use this word, Congregation, which can not deny, but it is the English word of this Greek name Ecclesia, that the Scripture useth, and signifieth without figure the same thing that this word, Church, doth by a figure, you may be ashamed, if you were not impudent, to find any fault with us for so doing. Likewise this word, Catholic, cometh of the Greek word, and signifieth Universal, or over all, which word the common people doth not understand. Therefore we expound it plainly and say: that the Catholic Church, is the Congregation of Christ, dispersed over all the world. What reasonable man can reprehend this doing, and not rather your folly, which think it enough, if the people can prate like parates: Catholic, Catholic, and understand not what Catholic meaneth. Thus, as we do not refuse these words: Catholic, and Church, because they are commonly received, so do we interpret them, by Universal, and Congregation, because they are not else, commonly understanded. 3 If therefore any thing can prove our true Church better than the honourable name of Catholic, or more condemn them to be out of Christ's church than that not only the Christian world giveth it not to them, but they in a name, do refuse the same themselves, then do I recant. HEre you bewray yourself evidently, and acknowledge, that we do not slander you, when we say: you boast only of the Catholic church: For you declare plainly, that you have no better argument than the very name of the Catholic Church, to prove, that you be the Catholic Church: if this be the best argument, all the rest is little worth. For if the only name of an honest man, is enough to prove an honest man, many a knave may prove himself an honest man, and if the very name of learning, make a learned man, many an ass may prove himself to be a learned man, or if the name of a good Christian, prove a man to be a good Christian, every hypocrite may prove himself a good Christian. Likewise if you have no greater argument, that can more condemn us, then that we are not called the Catholic Church, then can you no more condemn us, than Christ and his Apostles, that were not only, not called the true Church, but also were called heretics & deceivers by the people of the jews, which were as rightly called God his people, as they that give you the name of Catholic Church, are called the Christian world. It is well you have nothing better to prove your Church, than the honourable name of Catholic, nor any thing more to condemn our Church, then that we are not called Catholic, and yet we have as many nations, and more than you have, that by public authority, call us Catholics, and you heretics, although you most shamefully slander us, that we do refuse the name being offered unto us. Seeing you boast so much of the name, Catholic, you shall hear what some of the old writers judged thereof. Chrysostome, in an homely, that he writeth of Adam, and Eve, in the later end hath these words, after he hath told them that he hath no need to repeat such deep questions, as those men have handled which have fought against heretics: Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secundum praedictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt, ut prorsus opinemur Catholicum, quod apparuerit praefixis sententijs esse contrarium, that is, we believe that what so ever the Apostles have taught us according to the foresaid rules is sufficient, in so much that in no wise, we think that to be Catholic which shall appear to be contrary to the sentences before determined. By this you may see that Chrysostome thought it not sufficient to have the name of Catholic, for he judged nothing to be Catholic in deed, that was contrary to the rule grounded in the writings of the Apostles. Wherefore how so ever you boast of the honourable name of Catholic, except you can prove that your opinions agreed with the Scripture, they are not Catholic in deed, by Chrysostom's judgement. S. Augustine also, in his book de Genese ad literam imperfecto cap. 1. speaking of the Catholic faith, saith: This is an article thereof, that we should believe. Constitutam ab eo matrem Ecclesiam quae Catholica dicitur, ex eo quia universaliter perfecta est, & in nullo claudicat & per totum orbem diffusa est. That he hath appointed a mother Church, which is called Catholic, of this, because it is universally perfect, & halteth in nothing, and is dispersed over all the world. S. Augustine here, is not content that the Church be only called Catholic, but showeth when it is that, which it is called, and therefore the popish Church, not being universally perfect, as most Papists will confess, that many things in their church have need of reformation, & halting in many things from the truth of God his word, neither yet being dispersed over all the world but contained in a corner of Europa, is not by S. Augustine's rule the Catholic Church. Furthermore S. Augustine, contra Epistolam Fundamenti cap. 4. against the Manichees plainly declareth, how far forth, not only the name of Catholic, but also how far universally, consent, succession, antiquity, are to be allowed: ut ergo hanc omittam sapientiam, etc. Therefore to omit this wisdom which you do believe to be in the Catholic Church, there be many other things which may hold me most righteously in her bosom. The consent of people and nations holdeth me, the authority begun with miracles, nourished with hope, increased with charity, confirmed by antiquity, doth hold me. The succession of Priests from the very seat of Peter the Apostle, unto whom our Lord after his resurrection, committed his sheep to be fed even unto this present bishopric, doth hold me. Last of all that very name of Catholic doth hold me, which name, not without a cause, this Church alone hath so obtained, among so many heresies, that whereas all heretics would be called Catholics, yet when a stranger shall ask: where men meet at the Catholic Church, none of the heretics dare show him, either their principal temple or house. All this, you will say maketh exceeding much for us: yea, but hear that which followeth: Apud vos autem, ubi nihil horum est quod me invitet ac teneat, sola personat veritatis pollicitatio: quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur, ut in dubium venire non possit: proponenda est omnibus illis rebus, quibus in Catholica teneor, that is: But among you where there is none of these things, that may provoke or hold me, there soundeth the only promise of truth, which if it be showed so manifest that it can not come in doubt, is to be preferred before all those things, by which I am holden in a Catholic Church. By this you may plainly see, that though consent, antiquity, succession, and the name of Catholic, be good confirmation, when they are joined with the truth, yet when a truth is severed from them,, it is more to be regarded than they all: & it is truth that maketh Catholic, to be esteemed, and not Catholic, that giveth authority to truth: Wherefore, seeing it were better to prove your Church, to be Catholic, then to boast, that it is so called, & to disprove our Church so to be, then to say: it is not so called: The best way for you, is to recant. The 21. article containeth but one demand. 1 Moreover, I ask of the Protestants: whether in that time, in which they hold the true church to have been hidden or lost: the people that learned this article of their Creed (I believe the Catholic church) was bound to go from that church which they saw, and taught them both the article, and all other things touching their faith and by which they were Christened, and received all other sacraments, and commodities of salvation, whether they were bound, I say, to believe this unknown and close Congregation, which they could never come unto, nor by which they ever received; or could receive any benefit, and so forsake that church by whom and in whom, they received both their faith and sacraments: Show me therefore that the Christian men of these days, were charged to believe any other church than that, which taught them the article of the church, and baptised them, and I recant. THis demand, is like a drunken man's dream, having neither head nor foot: whether they should believe the church was lost: whether they should believe the church that was unknown to them, etc. But if your demand have any sense in it: This is my answer. The church was never lost, but hidden from the eyes of the world: Therefore, if the people that where taught that article: To believe the Catholic church, and were baptised to your church, understood that this church, was not the Catholic church, which was so commonly called, but that God had a secret Congregation, which was in deed, the true Catholic church, they were bound to forsake your church, and to believe the secret Congregation: for if a man had been baptised of the Arrians and being brought up by them, had learned that article, to believe the Catholic church, which the Arrians would expound to be themselves, if afterward, by God his help, this man understood, that the church of the Arrians, was not the catholic church, as he was taught it was, but that Athanasius, and a few other, that were banished and persecuted, were the true Catholic church: he was bound to leave the Arrians, commonly called the church, and to join himself with the secret, banished, hid, and persecuted church of Christ. But as for your Popish church, in that time of blindness and error taught not the people that article, nor any other but kept them back from the knowledge, as well of that article, as of all other things that were necessary to their salvation: for you taught them nothing else, but to pronounce, and that full ill favouredly, like popingeys, certain latin words, which they understood no more than stocks or stones. So that the people had no instruction of you, not not of the name of God, in many places but that they received by uncertain talk of their parents, as it were from hand to hand: for how many thousand parishes are there in England, that within these 60. years would declare, that they never heard sermon in their life. As for that they heard of their service, they learned as much of it, as of the ringing of their bells, which was a sound without understanding. Therefore you may be ashamed to speak of teaching the people, their belief and all things necessary for salvation, when you have counted it heresy to learn their creed in English, or to read the scripture in English, in which is contained all thing necessary to be known for everlasting salvation. Finally because you require me to show you that the Christian people of those days, were bound to believe any other church than that, which taught them the article of the church and baptized them, I trow I will so show it you, that for both your ears, you dare not deny it: how say you? The Christian people of the Greek church, which were taught by the Greek church, that article of the church, and by the same Greek church were baptized, whether aught they to believe any other church but the Greek church? If you say no: than you acknowledge the Greek church to be the true church which denieth the Pope's authority, if you say yea: Then you are welcome home, you recant. The 22. article, although it be very confuse, yet it containeth in effect 3. demands. 1 I ask also whether any man for the space of that 1000 years, of blindness could be saved, out of that secret and small Church, which they say was the true Church, if they answer me, there might be some saved, with our Sacraments, and in the Communion or fellowship of the Papists out of the Protestants Church, than there was a way to heaven, out of God's Church: if they say that none could be saved by our Sacraments out of their close Church, than all men young and old perished for those years without any hope of mercy, because they could not unite themselves, and be incorporate to that company and Congregation, whereof they never neither heard, nor could by any means surmise. Therefore let any man alive prove unto me that either any man could out of the true Church be saved. NO man alive that knoweth what the true Church meaneth, will say, that any man can be saved out of the true Church, for he that is not a member of the body of Christ, can by no means receive any benefit of Christ to his salvation. Therefore how long so ever the true Church were hidden, whether it were a thousand years (as you bear men in hand that we should say) or two thousand years it is not material, this is certain, that out of this Church, none could be saved, and though you count it small, as in deed in respect of the world, it is but a small flock, and few are elected, and few find the straight gate of life. Luke 12. Matth. 7. & 20. yet is the number of it greater, than man's eye commonly can discern. As when Elias thought that he only had been left alone of the true Church: God answered, that he had yet reserved 7000. that never bowed their knee to Baal. 1. Reg. 19 And as Esay declareth when the people should be almost all destroyed, yet a remnant should be saved, which though it seemed to be small, yet it should overflow and fill all the world with righteousness, Esa. 10. and though it shall be like a gathering of grapes when vintage is ended, or the shaking of an olive tree when men think they have left nothing upon it, yet there be two or three in the top among the boughs, & four or five under the leaves in the highest branches. Esay. 17. & 24. 2 Or that any other company could be known for the true and only Church but our common Catholic society. THe true Catholic Church was never so secret or hidden but it might be known of all those that had eyes to see it, whose hearts were lightened with the spirit of God and were instructed by the word of God, that they might understand the truth, and know the spouse of Christ from the common strumpet of Antichrist. 3 Or that all men were damned for a thousand years together because they could not find, nor surmise of any other Church, then that which practiseth all holy functions, which Christ left for our salvation in the world, and I recant. WE take not upon us to meddle with God his judgements, whom he condemneth, & for what causes, further than the word of God teacheth us, namely that as many as have not believed in the only son of God, are condemned for their unbelief, other secret causes we remit to his secret counsel and knowledge. And whereas you say that the popish church practiseth all holy functions that Christ left for the salvation of his Church, it is most false: for first you do not preach remission of sins in the blood of Christ only, for either you preach not all, or else you preach remission of sins in any thing, rather than the only merits of Christ, as in men's own merits, works of supererogation, pardons, masses, beggarly ceremonies, as holy water, auricular confession etc. Secondly, you minister not the Sacraments purely according to Christ his institution, but either corrupt and defile them with man's traditions, as you do Baptism, or else clean change the use of them, as in the lords Supper, which you make a Sacrifice, an idol, a priests breakfast, and defraud the people of the one half of the sacrament, as though you were wiser than he, that instituted it in both kinds. Thirdly, discipline you have converted into tyranny and covetousness, retaining nothing but the name of it alone: Wherefore seeing you exercise no holy function after Christ his institution, but clean contrary to the same, and do obstinately defend the filthy whore of babylon against the clear light of the Gospel, & the true spouse of Christ, ye shall be damned except you recant. The 23. article containeth 2. demands. 1 Again show me any Church, or imagine if you can by good reason, a church of Christ in which there is no gathering together for preaching, no spirit of prophesying, no rod of correction, no order of ministering nor any spiritual function that can be named, prove me that there should be a true Church for a thousand years together, and lacked all these things. YOu would feign have a great number of Articles and therefore you bring in one matter often times in divers phrase of words, that it might seem a new matter when it hath been uttered twice or thrice before: as this Article is contained before in the 5.8. and 9 Articles, where you shall find it more largely answered. But let us see, what this strange demand requireth, we must show him a church, or else imagine by good reason a church of Christ without preaching, ministering, and discipline for a thousand years together. Although we will not grant that it hath so long continued without these exercises, yet because you give us leave to imagine, we can imagine that it may as well continued without public preaching, ministering, and discipline for a thousand years, as it did for three hundred years before Constantine. But you will say there was preaching ministering, and correcting, though it were not known to the tyrants and persecutors, so say I unto you, for that thousand years there was gathering together for preaching, ministering, and correcting, though the Pope and his persecuting Prelates could not always see it, nor come to the knowledge of it: for if they had once intelligence of it they smarted for it, as is known by the stories of the Waldenses, Bohemians, etc. Furthermore continual exercise of preaching, ministering of sacraments, and executing of discipline, are notes of a quiet and peaceable Congregation, not of a dispersed, persecuted, and disquieted Church. How often doth S. Cyprian complain, that the brethren could not be gathered together for executing of discipline, whereby it is certain, that likewise they could not be gathered together for other exercises. Therefore the intermission of these exercises in a persecuted Church, doth not prove the same to be no true Church: But where so ever there be two or three gathered together in the name of Christ, there is he in the midst of them. But whereas you require the spirit of prophesy (except you mean the gift of interpreting the Scriptures) the Church in the most quiet and flourishing state, may want the spirit of showing things to come, as well as the gifts of tongues, healing, etc. 2 And withal, that there was an other untrue Church which for those many days only practised to the salvation of many, all these offices: and give me a good reason why this Church, that always hath had these things should be a false Church, and the other that wanted them, to be a true Church, and I recant. WE utterly deny, that beside the true Church, there was an untrue church, that practised those offices to the salvation of any man: for once again I tell you, you have neither the preaching of the word, nor ministering of Sacraments, nor execution of discipline, according to the truth of God his institution, but either altogether changed, or else greatly corrupted. And whereas you say, that the popish church only hath practised these offices: I ask you again whether the Greek Church be a part of your Church, and whether the Papists in England be a part of your Church. The Grecians you will say, are not: but the English Papists are. Then have I found out by your own judgement, the Church of the Grecians, practising these offices being an untrue church, & the church of the English Papists not practising the same, yet granted of you to be a true Church. Therefore you are bound to recant. The 24. article containeth 10. demands. 1 Moreover let any man show how that Church can be the pillar of truth, which durst not for a thousand years claim either preaching of God's word or ministering of Sacraments or show herself against falsehood or superstition. AS the number of your articles doth draw to an end, so your matter is far spent, and therefore to make up your number, you must repeat one thing twice. This demand is contained before in the 11. and 12. articles, where also it is fully answered. Notwithstanding, seeing it cometh again it shall be briefly answered in this place. The Church is not called the pillar of truth, because it should stand always in the sight of the world: for then the defection, which S. Paul speaketh of, could not have come, neither should the Church fly into the wilderness, as was declared to S. john: But it is called the pillar of truth, because that where so ever the Church is, either visible or invisible, there is the truth. So though the Church were hid a certain time in the wilderness, yet there was truth with the Church. You seem to be a good Arithmetrician: for no number soundeth in your mouth but a thousand. Nevertheless how long so ever it was, the pillar of truth decayed not, And as God gave his spirit, divers times was bold to challenge preaching and ministering of the Sacraments, yea, and so boldly, that it cost many of the challengers their lives. As Berengarius, Bruno, Marsilus de Pandua, joannes de Gaudano, joannes Wickleffe, Waldo, joannes Hus, jeronymus de Praga, etc. Thus it is manifest that the Church hath divers times challenged her right, and withstood falsehood. 2 Let any man show that all gifts of the spirit, and functions of the holy Ghost have been taken from her, a thousand years together, and only practised to the people's use by an adulterous Church. THere is no man can show this: for it is a false lie, that all gifts of the spirit, & function of the holy Ghost were either taken from the true Church, or given to the adulterous church. And this hath been showed more than once or twice before. 3 Let it be declared, how the gates of hell have not prevailed, or Christ's promise and warrant for her, not been void & frustrate, if a bastard Church exercising idolatry, as they say, hath spoiled the true Church of all holy actions, and the whole government, and the whole name of Christianity, almost ever since Christ's tyme. THe Devil hath bend all his force and ordinance, he hath armed all the power of darkness, he stirred up tyrants, heretics, Popes, Saracenes, and Turks to destroy the Church, the dragon, that old serpent Satanas, the Devil, stood before the woman to devour her child, he persecuted her into the wilderness, he cast out of his mouth, a great river to carry her away, he made war with the rest of her seed that keep the commandments of God. Apoc. 12. but yet in despite of the devil, the Pope, and all her enemies, she is to this day preserved, and shallbe to the worlds end: Therefore the gates of Hell, have not prevailed against her, nor the promise of Christ hath failed. And whereas you say, that your bastard church hath spoiled her of all holy actions, government, and Christian name, it is a most impudent lie, as it is true, that you saw a bastard church usurped her holy name, counterfaicted her holy actions, and turned her government into tyranny. 4 Let me see therefore how the only darling and spouse of Christ should be neglected of him so long. SHe hath not been neglected of him, but felt his continual aid, he hath given her safe deliverance of her child, & taken it up from the cruelty of the Dragon, he hath provided her a place in the wilderness, he hath made war with the Dragon for her sake, and driven him out of heaven, he hath given her eagle's wings to fly into the wilderness, he hath caused the earth, to swallow up the water that should have carried her away, he hath given the remnant of her seed, Victory over the Dragon. Finally, his merciful protection and loving care over her, hath never more notably appeared than that against so many dangers and enemies all this while he hath preserved her, until such time as he hath thought good, now to bring her out of her secret place in the wilderness, into the open sight of the world again. 5 Let the adversary show that the Church should ever by superstition and falsehood commit adultery or be devorce from him. THe true church, consisting of God his elect, and the lively members of the body of Christ, shall never commit such adultery that she shallbe divorced from him. But the visible church, by Idolatry and superstition may separate herself from Christ, and be refused of him, as God speaketh by Esay to the church of jerusalem cap. 1. How is the faithful City become an harlot? It was full of judgement, and justice lodged therein, but now they are murderers. Thy silver is become dross, and thy wine is mixed with water. Thy Princes are rebellious and companions of thieves etc. even so may he say to the church of Rome: how is that faithful church become an harlot, true Faith and Religion have dwelled in her, but now Idolatry and superstition: thy silver is turned into dross, and thy wine is mixed with water, thou hast nothing pure and uncorrupted, thy Princes be rebellious Antichrist's etc. Thus I have showed that the visible church, may become an adulteress, and be divorced from Christ. 6 Or that Christ should ever want his spouse in earth. THis hath been often answered before, Christ hath never wanted his spouse in earth, though the blind world can not always see her, or when they see her, will not acknowledge her to be his spouse, but persecute her, as if she were an adulteress. 7 Or that he should be a head either without a body. THese are but one thing in divers phrases, as he hath never wanted his spouse in earth, so hath he never been an head without a body, and seeing these words in this sense are relatives (for Christ is called a head in respect of the Church which is his body, and the Church is called a body, in respect of Christ that is her head) I answer you by a rule of the Logicians: Not man knoweth a relative, except he know the correlative thereof, Therefore, though Christ had a body in earth, yet could it be known of none, but such as knew Christ the head of that body. Of whom, when the Papists were ignorant, specially when they appointed an other head in earth, it is no marvel, if they could not see the body of Christ, though he have never been without it. 8 Or such an unknown and small body. THis hath been answered immediately before, it sufficeth that it be known to Christ the head. As he sayeth: My sheep hear my voice and I know them. john 10. And to them that be of the members of the same body. As for the rest, it is not necessary that they should always see it, which will never acknowledge it. Neither is it so small, as it is thought of, it is dispersed in many places over all the world, and yet few in comparison of the malignant church, whose number is as the sand of the sea, etc. Apoc. 20. 9 Or that Christ's only kingdom should become so contemptible. NOthing else is to be looked for of the world, but hatred and contempt, as Christ himself saith: You shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. Matth. 10. & S. Paul biddeth us look on our calling, not many wise men, according to the flesh, not many mighty men, & not many noble men: but God hath chosen the foolish things of this world to confounded the wise, and the weak of this world to confound the strong. 1. Cor. 1. And what hath the true church to boast in but in the Cross of Christ. Gal. 6. than the which, nothing is more shameful, contemptible or reproachful to the wisdom of this world: what knowledge or preaching hath the true church but jesus Christ crucified, which to the jews is an offence and to the greeks foolishness, but to them that be called, both jews and greeks it is the power and wisdom of God to everlasting salvation. 1. Cor. 1. Rom. 1. So that as the church in the sight of God and his Saints is most glorious and honourable, so in the sight of the world it hath always been most base and contemptible. 10 Or that his spouse in earth should ever lack the singular prerogatives of God's spirit, show me these things, and I recant. THis also hath been declared before in the second demand of this Article. There be certain singular prerogatives, which are not continually with God his Church: as the gift of tongues, the gift of prophesy, the gift of healings etc. but there be other prerogatives of God his spirit, that are necessary for the salvation of God his elect, as the gift of understanding, the gift of Faith, the spirit of adoption, etc. and these the spou●e of Christ hath never wanted. Wherefore if you willbe partaker of those benefits which are received in the church of Christ, you must forsake your Romish religion, and recant. The 25. article hath 2. demands. 1 Show me that the Church, which aught to be a Christian man's stay, in all troubles and tempests of doctrine might become so hid or so close that no man could find her. THe reader must not be offended with me for any tedious repetition of mine answers, seeing you give the occasion, by propounding your demands so often. This demand hath a false principle: that the church aught to be a Christian man's only stay in all troubles and tempests of doctrine: for when soever any such tempests do arise, there is as great question and doubt of the Church, as there is controversy of the doctrine: for as every heretic challengeth unto himself the truth of opinions, so also doth he challenge the possession of the church, so that the church is always in as great question as the doctrine. And then is it to be sought out and tried only by the scriptures, as we have declared at large in the answer to the 4. Article, 2. demand. Secondly whereas you demand: whether she could be so hid or close that no man could find her, because I have answered to this demand four or five times already, I will now answer in one word: Although she was bidden and close from the world, yet was she known to them that were her children. 2 Or so heartless that she could secure no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distress of Faith, prove me that there may be such a decay of God's spirit, truth, and Church, and I recant. THe Church hath never been afraid to do her office towards her children and true members, in teaching, exhorting, comforting, confirming, etc. neither hath the spirit of God failed to lead her into all truth, and Christ hath been with her ever more, and shallbe to the worlds end. But that the spirit of God, truth, and the Church of Christ, should depart from the greatest numbered of the world, is proved by S. Paul, 2. Thess. 2. and by the Revelation of S. john. Apoc. 12. Therefore if the spirit of truth did lead you, you should recant. The 26. article containeth in effect but 3. demands. 1 Show me again whether any man of years may be saved, except he believe the Catholic Church? THere is no man of what age or years soever he be that can be saved, except he be a member of the Catholic church. But how necessary it is to believe the Catholic church, it is very doubtful, as you demand, and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require. If you mean that it is necessary to believe the Catholic church, that is to say, that God hath an holy universal Congregation, I grant it is necessary to believe. But I utterly deny that the Romish church is that holy Catholic church. But if you mean (as it seemeth) and as the rest of the Papists do interpret that article, I believe the Catholic church, that is: I believe, what soever the church doth allow, to be true: I deny that it is necessary to salvation, that a Christian man should so believe the Catholic church, both because the church may err, & also because something may be commonly received of the church, which is not material to salvation. And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creed, I believe the Catholic church, that is: I believe what so ever she doth set forth or maintain, to be true, appeareth manifestly by the words themselves: For who ever was so ignorant in the Latin tongue, to think that Credere Ecclesiam, and Credere Ecclesiae, were all one in signification. In deed if the words were: Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae, in the dative case, this interpretation might take place, but when it is in the accusative case, Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam, A boy that would construe it otherwise than thus: I believe that there is a Catholic church, were worthy to have a dozen stripes for his labour. Moreover this common distinction of Credere in Deum, that is: to put our trust in God. Credere Deum, that is: to believe that there is a God, and Credere Deo, that is: to give credit to God, that he speaketh the truth, plainly overthroweth this foolish and false interpretation: For we say not: Credo in Ecclesiam, that is: I put my whole trust in the Church, for that were blasphemy, against God, in whom only we must believe, neither do we say: Credo Ecclesiae, that is: I give credit to the Church, as though she should always speak the truth: But we say and confess against all heretics and schismatics: Credo Ecclesiam etc. that is: I believe, that there is one Holy, Catholic, and apostolic church, whereof I am a member etc. Finally, when the articles following, are spoken in one context and phrase, it can not be chosen, but that they must have one kind of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum, Remissionem peccatorum, Carnis resurrectionem, that is: I believe the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the Resurrection of the body, etc. whereof the interpretation must needs be this: I believe that there is a Communion of Saints, that there is forgiveness of sins, etc. Even so I believe, that there is a Catholic Church, which is an article of our creed, necessary to be believed of every Christian man, but to believe all and every thing that the Catholic church, by common consent doth maintain, is no article of our Faith, and therefore not necessary to salvation. 2 And that is it which hath in the face of all the world practised preaching: the conversion of nations to the obedience of the Gospel: that hath always had the ministering of sacraments, the hearing of matters in controversy, power judiciary in Ecclesiastical causes, the orderly succession of Bishops, uniformity in solemn ceremonies, unity in faith, that hath in herself all holy functions of the spirit, as working of miracles, remission of sins, the true sense and interpretation of God's word that is beautified by the diversity of states, commended by Christ in the Gospel, as with Virgins, with Martyrs, with Confessors, and the rest. BEcause these coleworts have been sodden twice or thrice already, they are not worthy to be showed in several dishes, but even as they are here mingled all together in an hochpotte. Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholic Church (as it hath been declared before) some are not always necessary in the catholic church: As open preaching in the face of the world, open ministering of Sacraments and execution of discipline, these are not to be required in a persecuted Church. Some were proper for a time, and then ceased, as working of miracles, and divers other functions of the spirit. Some are never necessary in the Church, as succession of Bishops, uniformity in ceremonies, etc. But of all these notes, there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome: for she hath not always practised open preaching, and never preached the word of truth, she hath converted but few nations to her Religion, from Gentility, and them rather by war, than by preaching: she never had sense she first arose, the ministering of sacraments according to Christ his institution, she hath hard matters in controversy, not for furtherance of justice, but for love of money. Her judiciary power, may be dispensed withal for money. She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops, except an whore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome: And except so many schisms as they writ of, be orderly successions: she hath not uniformity in all ceremonies, for diverse nations, and diverse Churches in these nations have divers ceremonies, as Sarum, York, Bangor, etc. in England: she hath not unity in faith: for it is not yet determined, of one of the greatest articles of Popish faith, whether the Pope be above the church: she hath no holy functions of God his spirit, but profane usages of men's inventions: she hath no true miracles, but the power of Antichrist in lying signs and wonders. She hath nothing less than the true sense of God his word, which submitteth the same to her own corrupt and changeable judgement. She is not beautified with estates commended in Scripture, as Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets, Pastors and Teachers, but with Popes, Cardinals, Monks, Canons, Friars, etc. In steed of virgins, she hath filthy strumpets, her Nuns, or else such foolish virgins as bring no oil in their lamps: she hath no Martyrs, but obstinate traitors, as Becket, Fisher, Moore, etc. she hath no confessors of truth, though she have ten thousand maintainers of falsehood and lies: Wherefore if these be the notes of the Catholic Church, the Church of Rome can in no wise be that same. 3 Prove unto me that this is not the true Church, or that we be not bound to obey this Church and no other in all controversies, and doubts raised either by the difficulty of the Scripture, or by the vain contention & pride of heresy, and I recant. I Have proved, even immediately before that not one of those notes, which you count to be marks of the true Church, is proper to your Church. And therefore it is not the truth, neither aught it to be obeyed in any thing. And as for doubts that arise by difficulty of Scripture, or contention of heresy, must be resolved and determined, as it is abundantly declared before, only by the Scriptures: for the hard places of the Scripture must be opened by easy places, and heretics must be confuted, by the Scriptures: for there is never heresy, but there is as great doubt of the Church, as of the matter in question, only the Scripture is the stay of a Christian man's conscience, which I would wish that you would truly embrace and recant. The 27. article containeth 5. demands. 1 Moreover let any man prove unto me, that the true & only Church of God, may at any time be void of God his spirit. THe true and only Church of Christ, can never be void of God his spirit, and yet she may err from the truth, and be deceived, in some things, even as there is no true Christian man that is void of God his spirit, for he that hath not the spirit of Christ, is none of his. Rom. 8. yet may every true Christian err, and be deceived in some things, according to the saying of the Scripture, every man is a liar. Wherefore the whole Church militant consisting of men, which are all liars, may err all together, as every part thereof, although neither the whole Church nor any true member thereof be void of God his spirit. 2 Or falsely interpret any sentence of holy Scripture. THis gentle offer must needs be taken, I will prove unto you, that the church of Rome, hath falsely interpreted divers sentences of scripture, and therefore by that which she hath done, it cannot be doubted but that she may do it. S. Augustine was in this error, that he thought Infants must receive the sacrament of the body and blood of Christ, under pain of damnation, and was deceived by false interpretation of this scripture: Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood etc. joan. 6. This error and false interpretation, he affirmeth to be common to all the Western church, & to Pope Innocent himself. Contra duas epist. Pelag. ad Bonifacium lib. 2. cap. 4. & contra julianum lib. 1. cap. 2. Furthermore the second Council of Nice, how many texts of scripture doth it falsely interpret, which it were to tedious to repeat, yet for examples sake I will rehearse some of them. God made man to his own image Gen. 1. therefore we must have images in the church. No man lighteth a candle and setteth it under a bushel Math. 5. therefore images must be set upon the altars. As we have heard, so we have seen in the City of our God, Psal. 48. that is: God must not be known by only hearing of his word, but also by sight of images. If these be not true interpretations I report me to you. Beside these, I will bring you a sentence of holy Scripture, not only falsely interpreted in sense, but also falsified in words, and concerning not a small matter, but even one of the chief articles of our Faith. It is written in the 10. chapter of the Gospel after S. john the 29. verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. My Father which gave them unto me (speaking of his sheep) is greater than all. This sentence, hath the Council of Laterane, holden under Pope Innocent the 3. where were present 70. metropolitans, 400. Bishops, 12. Abbates, and 800. Prior's commentualles in all 1300. Prelates, falsified in words, after this manner, Pater quod dedit mihi, maius est omnibus, that is: That which the Father hath given me, is greater than all. This sentence they allege, to prove that God the Father begetting his Son from everlasting, gave his own substance unto him, the words be in the 2. Canon. Pater enim ab aeterno filium generando, suam substantiam ei dedit, juxta quod ipse testatur: Pater quod dedit mihi, maius est omnibus. At dici non potest, quod partem suae substantiae illi dederit, & partem retinuerit ipse sibi, cum substantia Patris indivisibilis sit etc. that is to say: For the Father, begetting his son, from everlasting, gave him his own substance, according as he himself witnesseth: that which the Father gave me, is greater than all. But it can not be said, that he gave him part of his substance, and kept part unto himself, when as the substance of the Father is indivisible etc. Go your ways now and persuade us, that your church can not interpret any sentence of the scripture, falsely, when the Laterane Council, which is your represented church hath thus both falsified, and falsely interpreted, this scripture. Persuade men, that they may safely lean to the interpretation of your church, when among a thousand and three hundred Prelates, gathered canonically in a Council, not one was found that could espy such gross abusing of the word of God, but let it pass in a Canon, under the name of the whole Council. Persuade men, that in all controversies, & condemning of errors, they must be ruled by the determination of your Church, When the Fathers of the Laterane Council, can not confute the error of joachim Abbot, concerning the Divinity of Christ, but by falsifying and false interpreting of scripture. These few examples of an infinite numbered, I have set forth, because they are sufficient, both to satisfy your challenge, and to persuade the simple, that the church of Rome may falsely interpret the scripture, which you would bear them in hand were impossible. 3 Or induce any error among the people. THe true and only church of God, is so guided by God his spirit and directed by his word that she can not induce any damnable error to continued. Yet, as it is declared before, she hath no such privilege granted, but that she may be deceived, in some things: for her knowledge is unperfect, and her prophesying is unperfect. 1. Cor. 13. And it is true that S. Augustine sayeth: even the whole church is taught to say: forgive us our trespasses. And if general councils be the church represented (as you Papists do teach) S. Augustine plainly affirmeth that they may err: De Baptismo contra Donatistas', lib. 2. cap. 2. Quis autem nesciat sanctam scripturam Canonicam tam veteris quam novi Testamenti etc. And who knoweth not, that the holy Canonical scripture, as well of the old, as of the new Testament, is contained within her certain bounds: and that it is so preferred, before all later writings of bishops, that of it, no man may in any wise doubt, or dispute, whether it be true, or whether it be right, what so ever is known to be written therein: and that the writings of bishops, which have been written, or are now in writing, may be reprehended, if they have gone astray, any thing from the truth, both by the saying that is perhaps more wise, of any man, that is more skilful in that matter, and by the more grave authority and wisdom of other better learned bishops, and also by councils: and that even those councils which are gathered in every region or province, aught to give place without all doubt, to the authority of the general councils, which are gathered out of all the Christian world: and that even the very general councils, may often be amended, the former by the later, when as by any trial of things, that is opened, which before was shut, and that is known which before was hidden, without any swelling of wicked pride, without any stubbornness of arrogance, without any contention of peevish envy: with holy Humility, with Catholic peace, with Christian charity. Thus far, S. Augustine, which clearly affirmeth, that general councils may often err, which may often be amended, but that the authority of God his word, is to be preferred before the writings of all Doctors, and Decrees of all councils, and that it only can not err. The Council of Carthage the 3. ca 23. determined, that all prayers at the altar, should be directed only to the Father, and not to the Son, or the holy Ghost, whether this be an error to define that it is unlawful to pray to God the Son, and God the holy Ghost, let every man judge. But you will except, that this was a provincial Synod, and not a general Council. But I answer you, it hath the authority of a general Council, because it was confirmed in the sixth general Council holden at Constantinople in Trullo. And as for the Popish church, that it may err, what need we better proof than the prayer, which it maketh, after the ending of every general Council, Precamur scilicet ut ignorantiae parcas & errori indulgeas, that is we pray truly that thou wouldst spare our ignorance & pardon our error. And again, Et quia conscientia remordente tabescimus, ne aut ignorantia, nos traxerit in errorom, aut praeceps forsitan voluntas impulerit a justitia declinare, ob hoc te poscimus, te rogamus, ut si quid offensionis in hac Concilij celebritate attraximus, condonare, & remissibile facere digneris. that is: And because we are grieved with remorse of conscience, jest either ignorance have drawn us into error, or perhaps rash will hath driven us to decline from justice, therefore we pray thee, we beseech thee, that if we have drawn unto us any offence in the celebration of this Council, thou wouldst vouch safe to pardon, and to make it remissible etc. If it be impossible for the general Council to err, what need they pray to God to pardon their error, and when their own conscience condemneth them and compelleth them to confess, and that before God, that they may err, what impudence is it in any man, to contend that they can not err? Furthermore the second Council of Nice, determined that Angels, and souls of men had bodies, were visible, and circumscriptible, and therefore might be painted, and this it affirmeth to be the judgement of the Catholic church, Con. Nice. 2. Actione 5. If this be not to induce an error, to make men believe that Angels and spirits have bodies visible and circumscriptible, there was never any error sense the world began. Finally, when they say the Pope can not err, they acknowledge that such general councils as condemned Popes, for heretics, did err, as the sixth general Council of Constantinople in Trullo, which condemned and accursed Pope Honorius for an heretic, Actione 13. Even as Pope Leo, the 2. did also, as appeareth in his epistle, to the Emperor Constantine. Also the Council of Constance did err, which condemned Pope john the 23. for denying the immortality of the soul, and the resurrection of the body. Session. 11. which Council, Pope john himself affirmed to be most holy, and that it could not err. Session. 12. And the Council of Basile did err, which deposed Pope Eugenius, the 4. Session. 34. the same Council being confirmed by Pope Nicolas the 5. Session 43. If you say: these two last councils did not err, in condemning and deposing these Popes: Then the great general, and Ecumenical Council of Ferraria, and Florence, did err, in disallowing the determination of these councils. Thus it is manifest that the Romish church, which they themselves confess, to be represented in a general Council, may err, which hath so often erred. And if it may err, and be deceived itself, what man is he, that need to doubt: Whether it may induce any error among the people. 4 Or approve any unprofitable or hurtful usage among Christians. IF the church had not approved many unprofitable and hurtful usages, among the people in S. Augustine's time, what need had he to complain, that many of God his commandments, were little regarded, & man's presumptions so highly esteemed, Sed hoc nimis doleo etc. But herewithal I am to much grieved, that many things which in God his book are most handsomely commanded are less regarded, and all things are so full of so many presumptions, that he is more grievously reproved, which in his utas hath touched the earth, with his bore foot, that he that hath buried his mind in drunkenness. Therefore if it be an unprofitable and hurtful usage, to prefer man's traditions before God his commandments, the Church in S. Augustine's time approved an unprofitable and hurtful usage. Furthermore, if the Church can not approve an unprofitable or hurtful usage, wherefore are so many ceremonies, as were approved in S. Augustine's and S. Ambroses' times, abrogated and disannulled, either because they were unprofitable, or else hurtful. Last of all, what superstitious usages, doth the church of Rome still approve? even such as the wiser sort of Papists are ashamed of. 5 Or that she suffereth any man, damnably abusing her religion, without open reprehension thereof, prove any of these things, and I recant. THe true Church of Christ, in such places as she is, suffereth no man damnably abusing her Religion, with out open ●eprehension, as in the days of Waldo, Wickleffe, Husse, etc. whereof sufficient mention is made before, but because she is not in all places at all times, many men, yea whole nations, may damnably err, and not be reprehended of her, As all the Mahometistes, which occupy the greatest part of the world, who doth, or hath always openly reprehended them. And the Romish Church, can well enough abide, the true Religion of Christ, to be damnably abused, not only without reprehension, but also with allowing: For when the Friars, dominicans, & Franciscans, had forged a new Gospel, out of the doctrine of Ioa●himus, and the visions of Cyril, which they called the Gospel of the holy Ghost, the Gospel that should endure hereafter, the everlasting Gospel: which devilish gospel they affirmed to be so much more perfect, than the Gospel of Christ: as the Sun is more perfect than the Moon, & a kernel of a nut, before the shell: yet did not the Church of Rome, once reprehend it. So that it was cultived 55, years, and at length set forth to be openly expounded in the University of Paris, Anno Dom. 1255. without open reprehension of any, but such as were counted heretics for their labour, As Gulielmus de S. Amore, Gerardus Sagurellus, etc. And finally, when the matter was brought before the Pope, Anno Dom. 1256. by Gulielmus de S. Amore, and other sent from the University of Paris, the Pope and the Cardinals, took o●der that it should be privily burned, and not openly reprehended, for shaming their orders. Mathaeus Paris. Whereby it is clearly proved, that the Romish Church hath suffered wicked men, damnably to abuse Religion, without open or privy reprehension for the space of 55. years, and at length without open reprehension, when there was no remedy but it must needs be reprehended, wherefore if there be any grace in you, you will recant. The 28. article containeth 3. demands. 1 If unity in Faith, austerity of life, sharp discipline, great penance, much fasting, large alms, godly devotion, obedience to higher powers, gravity and constancy in all cases, be not the signs of the true Church. IF you ask of true Faith, repentance, discipline, etc. these might be signs of the true Church, but if you mean unity in any faith, &c, as it seemeth by your words, the Mahometistes and Turks, are the true Church, for they have unity in their faith, austerity of life, sharp discipline, fasting, alms, devotion, obedience, gravity, Constance, etc. as much, or rather more than the popish church. 2 Or be not more in our Church then in their Congregation, I recant. YOu have not unity in true faith: for you know not what it meaneth, but are utter enemies unto it, and in your own principles, there is no unity, whether the Pope or the Council be superior, etc. you may, as all hypocrites, pretend austerity of life, when you are most luxurious riotors, as the world knoweth: your discipline is not so sharp, but money will make it blunt: you have great penance but no true repentance, you have much abstinence from meats, which is the doctrine of devils, but you fast as little as other men: your alms are large but without faith, and therefore sin: your devotion is blind, and not godly, but like her mother Ignorance: you are disobedient to Christian Magistrates, submitting yourselves to Antichrist: your gravity and constancy in all cases, is better commended of yourself, then known of other men: Wherefore being void even of these, which you make the signs of the true Church, you are none of the true Church, except you recant. 3 But if discord in religion, licentiousness in living, contempt of Discipline, rejecting of penance, loathsomeness of fasting, lack of zeal and devotion, disobedience to Magistrates, sacrilege, apostasy, breach of vows, unlawful lusts, wantonness in all life and manners, if these things, I say, agreed not better to the Protestants, than the Catholics, or if these be not the plain signs and fruits of a false church, and doctrine, I recant. WE acknowledge that in the outward face of our church, be many hypocrites, chargeable with these crimes that you speak of, and we yield ourselves guilty before God of grievous offences, that our life is not answerable unto our doctrine: Nevertheless we doubt not, but God for Christ his sake, will have mercy upon us. But if in life and conversation we be compared with you Papists, even the chiefest of your church, as Popes, Cardinals, bishops, Monks, etc. We dare approve our life to be honester both before God and men. You shall never be able to charge us with such riot, whoredom, adultery, incest, sodomitry, bestiality, murder, poisoning, necromancy, apostasy, blasphemy, etc. as both the world seeth to overflow in your Prelates at this day, and we are able to bring forth of your own Chronicles and Histories, to have been committed in times past: wherefore, for very shame, leave of this comparison. We meinteine no stews, neither of males nor females, we set forth no books in commendation of Sodomitry, we exact no tribute of Courtesans, to keep open bawdry, we privilege no writings that teach men to commit villainy, worthy of a thousand deaths. Therefore be not so impudent, to charge us with these crimes above the Papists, but rather forsake that filthy whore, the mother of all fornication, and recant. The 29. article containeth 8. demands. 1 Let any Protestant in the world, prove unto me, that their church could rightly be called Catholic, which was so particular, that no man alive could name a place where any such church was. WHy might not our Church, when it was most hidden, be as rightly called Catholic, as the Church of the Apostles, when it was so particular, that it was contained in the narrow bonds of jury: for it is not called Catholic, because it should be every where, for that it never was nor shallbe: But because that where so ever it be, in parts, it is one body of Christ. The Popish church is not in every part of the world: For Mahomet's sect is in the greatest part. Many countries are Idolaters and the most part of them that profess the name of Christ, are not in the fellowship of the Popish church: And whereas you say: that no man alive could name the place where it was, you make an impudent lie: For although it were unknown, to the Papists, and enemies thereof, yet was it known to the true members thereof. It was in Italy, when Marsilius of Milan, preached: in France, when Waldo preached at Lions, and there about. In England, when Wickliff taught: in Bohemia, when john Hus, and jeronyme of prague did flourish. 2 Or that it might be called holy, which never had Baptism, or other sacraments, to sanctify any of her followers withal. IT had the spirit of God to sanctify the true members of it, and it had sacraments to testify the same: Also did not the Bohemians baptize: Were not pauperes de Lugduno baptized? etc. But if you count their Baptism no Baptism, why did you not rebaptize in Queen Mary's time, all those that were baptised by our Church in King Edward's time? 3 Or that it should be one, which as soon as it grew up in the world, was divided into so many sundry sects. NOne of us will grant you, that our Church began first to grow, when it was last brought to light, and knowledge of the world: for it hath continued even since Christ. But if there arose, or were renewed many heresies, with it, that is no new matter, but an old practice of the devil. For as soon as the Church of Christ began to grow up after his ascension, even in the Apostles time, there were many sects and heresies, As the jews that maintained the law, they that denied the Resurrection among the Corinthians Hymenaeus and Philetus, Simon Magus, Cerinthus, Ebion, Martion, Basilides, Valentinus, Carpocrates, etc. So that there were many more heresies, at the first preaching of the Gospel, in, and immediately after, the Apostles time, then at the last restoring of the public preaching thereof unto the world in our days: And yet the apostolic Church was one Church, and so is ours at this day one and the same. 4 Or that it might be called apostolic, which could never count by orderly succssion from any Apostle, or apostolic man. YOu are never able to answer the arguments that are brought to prove that Peter was never Bishop at Rome. And then where is all your brags of apostolic sea, and succession, etc. But be it that Peter was there, except you prove succession of doctrine and faith as well as succession of men, your succession is not worth a straw. And our Church, which holdeth all the doctrine of the Apostles, and none other but the doctrine of the Apostles, shall be truly called, and found, the apostolic Church, when your with all her succession of Antichrist's whore, whoremongers, heretics, Sodomites, blasphemers, conjurers, etc. shall be Apostatical, rather than Apostolical. 5 Or the secret, base, contemptible, defaced, and disordered Congregation, was ever of that majesty, that it might require the obedience of all Nations. HOw base, and contemptible soever it be, in the eyes of the wicked despisers of it: yet did it not only require, but also subdue all nations to the obedience of the Faith, so many as were ever subdued, in the days of the first Christian Emperors, and before. And sense, when it was most defaced by the tyranny of Antichrist, it was of such majesty, that it both required and obtained the obedience of the realm of Bohemia, and in process of time, hath obtained the obedience of almost all the nations of Europe. If the church of Rome retain the like majesty, why doth it not now, require the like obedience of all nations, both Christians and Turks. you will say: It requireth, but it can not obtain. Even so, I answer of our Church, it hath always been worthy to require: but it hath not pleased God, that it should always obtain. 6 Or that it was ever able to gather general Counsels. THe four best general councils were gathered by our Church, and the Emperors, that were defenders of the same, and not by the bishops of Rome. Neither were they presidents in them, as it is manifest, that other men were Authors of the Canons, or distinctions: As of the Nicene, Alexander Bishop of Constantinople of the Constantinopolitan. Nectarius bishop of the Ephesine. Cyrillus bishop of Alexandria of the Chalcedonense. Anatolius of Constantinople etc. and in other general councils where the bishop of Rome was precedent, I answer as john patriarch of Antioch did, in the Council of Basile, his presidence was: Honoraria ad beneplacitum Concilij eyes data: non authoritativa, nisi ex concessione aut permissione habente vim concessionis aut ex tolerantia, that is: For honour sake granted to them so long as it should please the Council, and not of authority but either by grant or permission being of the force of a grant or else of sufferance. And I conclude as he doth, the Pope was never Precedent either of honour, or of authority, but by the grant or permission of the Council. And how is the Popish church able to gather general councils at this day? who will come at her calling? Except a few Spaniards, and a jolly company of buckram bishops of Italy? general councils of all the world, can never be gathered, but either when there is a Monarchy, or else (which is not to be looked for) that all the Princes of the world, will consent together. 7 Or exercise Discipline. BEcause this demand hath been answered so often before, I will say the less now. The free course of discipline, in time of persecution may be hindered: As it was in S. Cyprians time, when the members of the Church be dispersed: but the power of discipline, hath always remained, and when occasion served, been executed: As the Bohemians, excommunicated the Adamites, and the civil Magistrates punished them by the sword. 8 Or that these names, proper by scripture and Doctors of the true Church, could be ever challenged, by any right to their said Congregation. AS many of these names as are proper to the Church by scripture, or Doctors agreeing, with scripture, have been always justly challenged of right to pertain to our Church and Congregation. I mean these: 1 Corpus Christi. Our Church doth rightly challenge, to be the body of Christ, which acknowledgeth Christ to be her only head, Saviour, Redeemer, Priest, King, Intercessor. etc. The Popish church can not challenge this name, because she doth not acknowledge Christ to be these only and wholly. 2 Sponsa Christi. THe spouse of Christ, heareth the voice of Christ, and is ruled thereby, so doth our Church, therefore she is spouse of Christ. But the Romish church goeth a whoring after her own inventions, committeth gross idolatry, and will in no wise be ruled only by the voice of Christ, there she is not the spouse of Christ. 3 Vencidilecta Christo. How tenderly Christ loveth his Church, the true members thereof, which have received the first fruits of his spirit, do better understand in heart than can be expressed with words, & how he abhorreth the whore of Babylon the romish synagogue, the Scripture doth plentifully declare. 4 Columba speciosa. Our Church, expressing the simplicity of a fair dove, may justly challenge this name: But the babylonical strumpet your church, in craft and subtility, is more like a fox than a dove. 5 Domus Dei. THe true Church, in which we are, is the house or family of God, which he governeth by his stewards, the sincere preachers of his word. The popish church is the synagogue of Satan, where the preaching of God his word is despised, and the word itself, made subject to men's determinations and authorities. 6 Columna veritatis. Saint Paul by this title doth admonish Pastors, and Preachers, how great a burden and charge they sustain, that the truth of the Gospel can not be continued in the world, but by their ministery in the church of God, which is the pillar and stay of truth, this their duty true preachers considering, are diligent in their calling to set forth the Gospel and to preach the truth. But the popish church, which is not the upholder, and maintainer, but the overthrower & oppressor of the truth, compelling it to give place to falsehood and error, can by no equity challenge this name, to be called the pillar and stay of truth, but rather of falsehood and lies. 7 Civitas Dei. Our Church is the city of God, builded upon the foundations of the patriarchs, Prophets, and Apostles, jesus Christ being the head corner stone: ruled by the laws of God only, retaining that form of regiment and common wealth, that Christ himself hath prescribed. The Church of Antichrist, is founded upon seven hills, Apoc. 17. upon the traditions, dreams, fantasies, and devices of men, refuseth to be ruled only by the laws of God, hath clean altered and changed the form of regiment prescribed by God, & set up an other, full of Antichristian pride, cruelty, and tyranny. Therefore in no wise may be called the city of God, But Babylon the mother of fornication, Sodoma and Egypt, where our Lord is daily crucified in his members. 8 Civitas supra montem posita. THis saying of our Saviour Christ in the 5. of Matthew, is not properly meant of the Church, but of the Apostles & their successors the ministers of the Church, even as these sayings: You are the salt of the earth, you are the light of the world, A city builded upon an hill can not be hidden, neither is a candle lighted to be set under a bushel. By which words, he teacheth them above all other men, to look diligently to their life and conversation: for as they excel in place and dignity, so the eyes of all men are set upon them. As a city builded upon an hill, must needs be seen of all them that come near it, so they being placed in so high an office and dignity shall be noted and marked above all other men. As a candle is not lighted but to be set on a candlestick & to give light unto all them that come into the house, even so a Minister and Preacher of God his word is not ordained for any other end but that he should shine before men in true doctrine and good manners. Hereby it appeareth how fond some Papists would seem to prove out of this place that the Church must always be visible, when the words are not applied to the Church, but to the ministers thereof, I know some of the doctors expound this place otherwise, but the context of the words doth plainly confute their error. 9 Hortus conclusus. AS a garden or orchard walled in or enclosed with hedges, is more esteemed of the owner, than great broad fields, and the trees and flowers that grow therein are preserved and kept more safely, than such as are wild and grow abroad, right so the Church of Christ severed from the rest of the world, though it be small in compass, yet is it more esteemed of him then all the world beside. But the Church of Rome, which will not be enclosed with the walls or hedges of God his word, but wandereth at large after her own inventions, can not be called the enclosed garden of Christ. 10 Fons signatus, THe true Church of Christ is also compared to a spring or fountain, which is shut in or sealed up from the profane waters of worldly vanities, ministering the water of life to all the children of God. But as for the popish church, which ishueth out of the bottomless lake, is a stinking puddle of all false doctrine and heresy, whereof the whore beareth a cup full. Apoc. 17. out of which all nations have drunk, Apoc. 18. So far is it, that she should be a well, sealed up by Christ. 11 Sponsa Agni. THe description of the Spouse of the Lamb, set forth in S. john's Revelation, doth in all points most aptly agreed unto our holy Church and congregation. But the popish church, which is not content to be clothed in that white shining silk, which is the justification of Saints made white in the blood of the Lamb, but with the filthy rags of man's righteousness, Esay 64. is no Spouse of Christ, but the darling of the devil. 12 Mulier amicta Sole. NO place in all the scripture doth more plainly set forth the estate of our Church than this 12. of the Apocalyps. She is clothed with the sun of righteousness jesus Christ, which is her beauty. She treadeth under her feet, the Moon of mutability, changeableness, and inconstancy, she is crowned with 12. stars, which is the doctrine of the 12. Apostles, the word of God. She is always fruitful, and persecuted by the devil and his members, but yet by Christ defended, protected, and provided for in all dangers and adversities. But the church of Rome, is that whore of Babylon clothed in purple and scarlet, gold, precious stones, and pearls, described Apoc. 17. sitting upon the beast with seven heads, which are the seven hills, and is the great city that had dominion over the kings of the earth. 13 Habitatio fratrum in unum. ALthough this saying be not proper nor peculiar unto the Church only, but common to every society and fellowship of men that continued in godly unity, yet doth it most aptly agreed unto our Church, which holdeth one unity of doctrine, faith, and religion of Christ. But the Popish church how so ever it brag of unity, because their agreement is not in verity, can not be that cohabitation of brethren, which the Psalmist doth so highly commend. 14 Mons Dei mons pinguis. THe hill which David so extolleth Psal. 68 is the mount Zyon, which though it be small, yet it excelleth the high and fruitful hill of Basan, because God had chosen it to place his tabernacle thereupon: even so the church of Christ, though it surmount not over kingdoms in worldly dignities and commodities, yet to such as David was, the little hill of Zyon is more worth, than all the seven hills of Rome. 15 Sacra anchora. IN all the Scripture the Church is not compared to an holy Anchor, but in the sixth to the hebrews Faith in God his promises, is compared unto a sure & steadfast Anchor of our souls, upon which Faith seeing our Church is builded we may truly say that in our Church only is this sure anchor, which the popish church doth so much despise that she counted it heresy for us to fly unto Faith, tanquam ad sacram anchoram, that is: As to our only sure refuge. 16 Vinea Domini. THe Vineyard of the Lord is of his own planting, dressed & tilled by such husbandmen, as he hath placed in it, which will yield him fruit in time convenient. This agreeth aptly unto our Church, which alloweth no plant, but such as is planted by our heavenly Father. This vinyeard can not the popish church be counted, which plucketh up the vines planted by God, and in the steed of them setteth thorns and thistles after the devices of men. 17 Terra viventium. THe land of the living in scripture signifieth this present life, as: I trusted to see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. that is: Although I was near death, yet I believed that God would preserve me in this life Psal. 27. And unto Doeg, he sayeth: Psal. 52. God shall destroy thy root out of the land of the living. that is: Out of this life. Also Ezechias, in his psalm. Esay. 38. I shall not see the Lord, even the Lord in the land of the living. that is: I shall no more praise God in his temple here in this life. And when you shall bring forth a place of scripture where it is properly applied unto the church, it shallbe an easy matter to prove that we only are the lively members of Christ, which abide in his body receiving all benefits of life from him which is our head: And easy it willbe to prove that you are the land of the dead men, which are strangers from the life of God Ephes. 4. which are alive in this world and not dead unto Christ. 18 Regina in vestitu de aurato circundata varietatibus. ALthough this saying alleged out of the 45. Psalm, be figuratively meant of the church, as it is literaly spoken of pharao's daughter whom Solomon married: yet being alleged not after the truth of the Hebrew but after the error of the old translation, I will not interpret it contrary to my conscience (as S. Ieronym ●ayeth) according to that corrupt version but according to the truth of the text, which is: The Queen in a garment of gold of Ophir, As for compassing with varieties, it is not in the text. By this figure the spiritual magnificence of the church of Christ gathered of the Gentiles is set forth unto us, and therefore let not the Papists dream that material gold is the ornament of Christ his spouse, but as it is before said, of the whore of Babylon. 19 Ecclesia magna. 20 Populus gravis. David in the 35. Psalm promiseth that he will give thanks unto God after his deliverance, in a great company and solemn assembly of people, such as was wont to come together at the holy meetings in the Sanctuary. This is the true and the simple meaning of this text. And it were to violent an interpretation to enforce it to be a prophesy of the church of Christ, although it be true that the church is a great congregation and a mighty people, yet remembering therewith that in comparizon of all the world it is as Christ himself calleth it: A little Flock. 21 Archa Noe. IN the Arch of No, as S. Peter testifieth 1. Pet. 3. but a few, namely 8. souls were saved in the water, even as many as were obedient unto the voice of God, the whole world beside were drowned. Wherefore how few soever we be: As the Papists say we are not many, so long as we obey the voice of God, we doubt not but we shallbe saved in the Arch. And the Papists with all their universality and multitude, despising the law of God, shall perish with the wicked world. 22 Tabernaculum altissimi. THe old Tabernaecle was a figure of the true Church, and we know that none shall devil therein but such as be described in the Psal. 15. Therefore let the Papists brag as long as they list of the Tabernacle of the highest, yet shall they not devil there, neither shall they rest in his holy hill, because they be not endued with such virtues, springing of true, and a lively faith: As in that Psalm be set forth. 23 Ager & area Dei. THe church is the field and flower of God, in his field he soweth none but good seed, & the chaff shallbe purged from his flower. The Papists are some of these tars, whom the envious man hath sowed while men were a sleep, and the chaff, which after it be purged from the corn together with the tars shallbe burned in the unquenchable fire. 24 Mater fidelium. Jerusalem that is from above is free, which is the mother of us all, which embrace jesus Christ as our only Redeemer from the bondage and curse of the law. As for that step mother of Rome which bringeth men into captivity through ceremonies and traditions of men: Begetteth unto bondage as Agar did, and is become the mother, not of the faithful, but of abominable fornication Apocalip. 17. 25 Nutrix Christianorum. THe church of Christ is the Nurse of Christians, which bringeth them up and feedeth them first with milk, and afterward with stronger meats according as they are able to receive it 1. Cor. 3. Heb. 6. But Rome, which feedeth her babes with poison of man's traditions in steed of the milk of God his word, & will rather see them famish than they should taste of God his word, may well be a nurse of Antichristians, but never did good unto Christians. 26 Ecclesia orthodoxa. TRue opinions are confirmed out of the word of truth, wherefore our church which holdeth no doctrine, but such as is tried by the word of truth most truly may be called the true believing church. Contrariwise, the Popish church which so manifestly dissenteth from the word of truth that she dare not be judged thereby, but most blasphemously submitteth the same to her corrupt and false judgement, may justly be called a false believing church. 27 una, Sancta, Catholica. 28 Apostolica. THis hath been often proved before: And namely in the first, second, third, and fourth demands of this last Article. 29 Vxor the later Christi sicut Eva de later Adam. AS S. Augustine sayeth: The church of Christ is taken out of his side: as Eve was out of Adam's side, which so long as she obeyeth the voice of her husband, is not deceived by the serpent: But if she be absent from him, that she be not instructed by him, she is deceived by heretics Augusti. De Genes. contra Manichaeos' libro. 2. cap. 24. & 26. by which place of Augustine it is proved that the Church may err, if she be not ruled by the word of God. 30 Domus Pacis. THe church may be called the house of Peace, because there is in it Peace and agreement in the chiefest Articles of the Faith, or because in it is taught us the Peace and reconciliation wrought by Christ, whereby we knowing that we are justified by faith, have peace with God. Rom. 5. But neither of these pieces are in the church of Rome: for there is dissension in doctrine and their doctrine dissenteth from the truth: as for the peace of conscience is altogether unknown unto Papists, even as the justification of Faith, by which only it is obtained. 31 Domus Refugij. THe house of Refuge or defence may also be applied to the Church, out of which is no salvation: And in whose bosom it becometh every man to rest, which shall look for the refuge and defence of God. But God forbid that any man should seek for refuge or help at your church, which must be overthrown with such violence as a great millstone that is cast into the Sea, and shallbe found no more Apoc. 18. 32 Domus Veritatis. AS our church is the pillar and stay of truth, so is she also the house of Truth, which knoweth nothing but him that is the Truth itself jesus Christ and his most holy Scripture: In which this truth is signed and testified. But your synagogue is the house of lies, where beside men's doctrines and traditions which are nothing but lies, there be also leaden legends of lies, Promptuaries of lies, Festivals of lies, and other infinite books of lies. 33 Societas Sanctorum. HOw should not our Church be the society and fellowship of Saints, which is sanctified and purged by the blood of Christ, which hath received the spirit of sanctification, by which we cry: Abba, Father, which is guided and governed by the most sacred and holy word of God. And how can the Popish church be the fellowship of Saints, when she refuseth the sanctification of Christ his one oblation and sacrifice, as sufficient to make them perfect, which scorneth at the spirit of sanctification, which can abide any thing, rather than to be directed only by God his holy word: Finally which acknowledgeth no saints, but such as the most unholy Pope, for money doth canonize and make saints. Prove unto me therefore that these excellent and proper callings, can agreed to any disordered company or Congregation, or to any unknown society of men: but only to the true Church of Christ spread throughout the whole world by Christ's his promise, and by virtue of his spirit, continued in truth and grace from falsehood sense Christ's time, and I recant. AS many of these excellent names, as in the word of God, or the doctors agreeing with the word of God, are proper or pertaining to the true Church of Christ, so many have I proved to be proper and pertaining to our most holy and well ordered Congregation. And moreover that they can in no wise be rightly applied to that most abominable, Idolatrous, and disordered synagogue of Rome, which is utterly departed from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, being so lively painted forth and even pointed forth by the scripture to be that Antichristian church, whereof the holy Ghost prophesieth, that no man, except he will wilfully be blind, can be ignorant thereof, so that if you be not stark blind, and given up into a reprobate sense, when you consider these things you will recant. Let any man therefore alive answer directly and plainly without colour or fraud of words and unprofitable digressions to the foresaid or any of the foresaid demands, and I shall willingly leave the known Church & plain way of Salvation, and wander in the woods to seek after them, and their congregation. IF you had not added this conclusion, we might have conceived some hope, that upon further instruction in such matters as troubled your conscience you would have been contented to be reformed after God his word, and good counsel. But now you declare that you are so obstinately bend that what so ever be proved against you, you will not receive it as truth but yield unto it perforce. As for me, Although I know there are very many which with more learning and eloquence could have answered your demands, yet being such as they are, I submit myself to the judgement of all them, that be learned and godly minded, whether I have not directly and plainly, without colour or fraud of words, & without all digression answered the same, so that I doubt not, but as many as are tractable, and stayed upon these doubts only, may be fully persuaded by these not very long and yet sufficient Answers. THE END. 1 A DEFENSE AND DECLARATION OF THE CATHOLIC Church's doctrine, touching Purgatory, and prayers for the souls departed. By WILLIAM ALLEN Master of Art and student in Divinity. 1 AN OVERTHROW AND CONFUTATION OF THE POPISH Church's doctrine, touching Purgatory, and prayers for the dead. By W. FULKE Doctor in Divinity. 2 Mortuo ne prohibeas gratiam: Eccle. 7. Hinder not the departed of grace and favour. 2 Such liberality as by any means may extend unto them, in burying their bodies, honouring there memory, helping there posterity. TO THE READER. 3 A Friend of mine, very studious of the truth and zealous of God's house, one that learned to believe first, and then sought to understand afterward (which I take to be the natural order of a christian school, where faith must in most matters direct reason, and lead the way to understanding) asked of me, as of one whom he heartily loved, and knew to be studious in such matters by my trade of life, upon what grounds the Church's doctrine, and the Christian people's faith of Purgatory, and prayers for the departed, stood. I answered him then presently, as I could, and shortly after (as his further request was) in writing, somewhat more at large. The which my doing though it was both rude and short, yet he so measured it, either by love, as it commonly happeth, or else by a singular facility, whereby he misliketh nothing that is meant well, that he made it common to many more than I would myself. For though I was well contented, that the simple people or any other should take profit or pleasure by my pain, yet considering the matter to be full of difficulty, and to rea●h to God's judgements in the world to come, I called to my mind the saying of Nebridius, August. Epi. 23. who (as S. Augustine reporteth of him with whom he was very familiar,) being much studious and inquisitive of the secret po●ntes of our faith, would be exceedingly offended, to hear a man ask of a matter of importance, a brief declaration: his saying was, that he loved not a short answer to a long question. Whereby, I was me thought in a manner admonished, that my treatise though it satisfied my friend, and displeased not other, yet could not, written both hastily and briefly, serve so long and large a matter. I did fear with all, to enter, in this my lack of years, judgement, and knowledge, into the search of such secrets as I kn●w, by that light vow that I made of the matter before, the orderly proceeding in the cause would drive me unto: I did learn of ancient Irenaeus, that such doctrine ●nd mysteries may be safely had, and without all fear of error, Libr 3 Cap. 43. taught by holy Priests and Bishops, Qui cum episcopatus successione, charisma veritatis certum, s●cundum placitum pat●is accepe●unt. Who have received with th●ir ordinary succession in their pastoral seat, the gracious gift of understanding the truth. And these are they (saith he in the same place) which may without all danger to themselves and their hearers, expound unto us the holy Scriptures. Other men doubtless (which this miserable age of ours seeth not, that measureth all things by a fond flourish of learning, whereof ●et there was never less store) can not, nor must not be so bold, though their gifts were many more, & study mu●h longer than mine. And to confess the truth in deed, I was somewhat loath (such was my foolish fear then) to fall in hand with that matter, which being well and to the bottom ripped, I perceived, of all other causes in the world, most to touch the very sore of heresy, and therefore might to me procure the hatred of such, whose love otherwise I could be content, either to keep or win. Besides that, I saw the contention of the contrary part, seeking to make some answer to such things as might in this cause most grieve their minds, or mar their matter, should drive me from that course of study, which otherwise in quietness I would most gladly keep, to serve truth and defend my cause, which once of freedom and good will taken in hand, must afterward of duty and necessity be upholden. Notwithstanding all these things, good reader, which might most justly hold me back, yet now my friends request, the case and condition of this present time, and my duty towards my mother the Church, may of good reason, and must of necessity change my former intent, & remove my private study to the benefit of the common cause. Therefore being at length by just occasion wholly minded to serve as well as I could that way, I thought good these late months, to make a more full declaration of that thing, which at my said friends request, I had so briefly touched before. That as then when he first had it of me, it only served him for his own contentation, the pleasuring of his singular and secret friends, and the help of some simple whom he knew deceived by over light looking on so grave matters, so now (good Christian reader) I trust it may help in common, not only such as have been carried a way by the guile of heresy, but other that are much subject to the dangerous flattery of this present time: with whom, pleasure ever joined to the protestants doctrine, often more prevaileth, than the preachers persuasion. Be bold to charge any of our adversaries, make he never so great account of himself, with the force of truth here expressly proved both by argument and authority: if it hold him not, he shall (I am sure) braced out with impudency, and not loose himself by reason, just dealing, or honesty. And if it be proved to touch with safety the poison itself, let no man doubt to use it for a preservative, in this common infection of our time and country. For it were no reason, any man should practise with the poor people privyly, in such things as he were not able to maintain before their pilloures and preachers openly. And for that hatred which I may procure to myself by mine own travel, it shall not much move me: for I shall either be partaker thereof, as a common praise in these evil days to most good men: or else if I be not worthy so much, I will learn to bear it as some part of punishment & satisfaction for my sins. I may not buy friendship with flattery, nor man's love with forsaking God's truth. Of such things than I will not make much reckoning: but my principal care is, that in writing or wading in so deep matters, I keep the straight line of the Church's truth, which, in the exceeding rashness of these dark days, a man may quickly loose. And therefore to make sure, I humbly submit myself, to the judgement of such our masters in faith and religion, as by God's calling are made the lawful Pastors of our souls. Of whom I had rather learn myself, then teach other: if either they had occasion and opportunity to speak, or I might of reason and duty in these miserable times hold my peace. Farewell gentle Reader, and if I pleasure thee by my pains, let me for Christ's sake be partaker of thy prayers. At Antwerp the Second of May. 1565. 3 whether this occasion of your writing were true, or only pretended, it is all one to our purpose. But where you commend your friend, for that he learned to believe first, and sought to understand afterward, which you take to be the natural order of a Christian school, if you had showed where you learned that method, his commendation should have been the greater, and your judgement the weightier. For we learn by Saint Paul, a contrary order, namely first to hear the word of God preached and expounded, and then to believe it. Rom. 10. For God by the riches of his grace, hath abounded towards us, in all wisdom and understanding, and hath opened unto us, the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure, so that after we heard the word of truth, the Gospel of our salvation, we have thereby believed, and so are sealed with the holy Spirit of promise, labouring and praying, that those which have received the first grace of knowledge, and understanding, may daily more and more, increase in the same, that they may be full filled with knowledge of God's will, in all wisdom & spiritual understanding. Col. 1. And as for that blind faith, which must be thrust upon men's consciences, to be accepted before they see what ground it hath, we leave it, as meet for sect masters and heretics, and in no wise to be admitted by the Disciples of Christ, who calleth all men to hear him, and understand him. Matt. 15. Mar. 7. But faith (say you) in most matters must direct reason. But I say, reason in all matters must be subject to faith. For the natural man with all his reason, neither doth, nor can perceive the things of the spirit of God, for the eye hath not seen, nor the ear hath heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things that God hath prepared for them that love him, but God hath revealed them to us by his spirit. 1. Corinth. 2. And this is the thing that deceiveth you (Master Allen) which more like a master of profane arts, than a good student of holy Divinity, can put no difference between carnal reason, and spiritual understanding. For that knowledge and understanding of God's holy mysteries, contained in his word, whereupon our faith is grounded, we have, not by light of natural reason, but by revelation and opening of God's spirit. But omitting this matter, as touched by the way, with two other pages following, as containing nothing material to be answered, I will come to the third leaf and second face, where you promise' an orderly proceeding in the matter you take in hand. Which order of yours, if you had not professed yourself to observe, men might have taken your hochpot, to be such as your matter would bring forth, & that the treaty of Purgatory should be like the troublesome state thereof: but when you are not content, to have your method counted to be of the nature of your matter, but you will needs make boast of an orderly proceeding, in so disordered a cause, you must not be offended if your confusion in stead of order, be sometime discovered. Howbeit the want of order were a small fault, if the matter were pregnant and certain. But what assurance shall other men have of your doctrine? when you yourself affirm, and have learned (as you say out of Irenaeus) that such doctrine and mysteries, may not be safely had at such a man's hand as you are, but only of holy Priests and Bishops, which with the succession of their office, have received a sure and certain gift of truth according to the pleasure of their father. It is the duty, not only of a good teacher, but even of a good Christian, to say with the Psalmist: I have believed, and therefore I have spoken. If you believe not these matters, why have you uttered them▪ ●f you believe them, then be bold to show us your grounds, out of the word of God. For other persuasion, then ●uch as is grounded upon the hearing of God's word will never of Christians, be counted for true belief, so long as the 10. chapter to the Romans remaineth in the Canon of the Bible. But I know your meaning: you affect the praise of humility and modesty. For wavering and uncertainty in faith among Papists is counted modesty, but this modesty is soon forgotten, and this boldness now utterly refused, in the next leaf ●ollowing, is not only resumed by yourself, but also enjoined to others. Be bold (& blush not you might say, though you should for shame) to charge any of our adversaries, etc. A sudden change he that even now, neither can nor must be bold, although he h●d many more gifts than he hath, and studied much longer than he hath done, to expound the holy Scripture, without danger to himself, and his hearers, because he hath not the certain gift of truth, with ordinary succession: by and by is grown to such a full persuasion of truth, expressly proved by argument and authority, that men must be bold upon his warrant, to charge all his adversaries, either to be held thereby, or else with no honesty to escape his hands. A man would marvel, to behold this speedy alteration, if he did not understand the true difference, between the certain faith of a Christian, and the obstinate blindness of an heretic. For when he compareth his opinion with the authority of God's word where upon true faith is builded, he will not, he can not, he must not be bold, to understand the scriptures, he wanteth that certain gift of truth: but when he remembreth that he can not deceive others, nor retain the glory of constancy himself, by doubtfulness and uncertainty: then he vaunteth & braggeth, of the force of his feeble arguments, and unsufficient authority. But concerning the place of Irenaeus, by him alleged, I must admonish the reader, that his meaning was not, that every one that succeedeth in a bishops seat, hath as necessarily annexed to his see, that certain gift of verity, whereby, he may expound the Scripture without error, as (master Allen perhaps would insinuate) But that some in the first age of the Church, as they succeeded the holy bishops and elders that were ordained by the Apostles, in place and office, so also it pleased God their father, that they should succeed in the like gifts and namely in that excellent gift of interpretation of the Scriptures, which was but extraordinary, and for a season. For if it had been an ordinary thing, that every Bishop by succession, should receive that gift, there should never have been any heretic Bishops, as there have been many: and again, that prerogative, which Master Allen himself will affirm, to be peculiar to the Bishop of Rome, should be made common to every other blind Bishop, where so e●er he sat, which were a great absurdity in popery itself. And as for the gift of the interpretation of scriptures, God g●ueth it still though not in such full measure, nor commonly without ordinary means allowed in the Scripture, as reading, comparing, praying, never the less, with as full persuasion in matters concerning God's honour & our salvation by his holy Spirit, as ever he did bestow the same in any age. And as for the helps of learning requisite for the same, as knowledge of the tongues and rational sciences, there was never greater sto●e in the church of Christ, son Christ his time: ye if we shall judge by the writings and stories of all ages (unless we will be as impudent as master Allen) we must say, there was never so great store of learning in any age, as (Gods holy name be praised) there is now in these our days, in men professing Christian religion: with what conscience can master Allen affirm? that there was never less store of learning then in this age, when even in remembrance of men that are alive, there was a great deal less store than is now, but in their fathers and grandfathers time, there was almost nothing but rudeness and barbarousness, even with the same conscience, that soon after he affirmeth that pleasure is ever joined to the Protestants doctrine, which more prevaileth then the preachers persuasion. If you had meant Master Allen that peace of God which passeth all understanding, which they taste of, that by the Protestants doctrine have learned that they are justified by faith. Phil. 4. Rom. 5. and to that perpetual joy in the holy Ghost, whereunto we are exhorted by the Apostle. Phil. 4. wherein the kingdom of God consisteth. Rom. 14. we willingly would have consented, that such pleasure is always joined to the Protestants doctrine: but seeing it is more like, you speak of carnal pleasures, I must say thus much to confounded your blasphemous tongue, and to dash out your slanderous writing: let the world witness that heareth our doctrine, and God judge that seeth our hearts, whether carnal pleasures be joined to our teaching, which daily preach with all vehemency and earnestness, unfeigned repentance, mortification, denial of ourselves, bearing of the cross, hatred of this world, amendment of life, holiness and righteousness, and that under pain of everlasting damnation. And whether pleasure more than the godly persuasion of the preachers, prevaileth to win professors of our doctrine, if it be not so clearly seen in this Church of England, by the means of the great peace and tranquillity, we have through God's singular goodness, under the happy government of our Sovereign Lady enjoyed these many years: look to those Churches of God in France, and the low countries of Germany, which within these twenty years have been for the most part planted, grown up, & flourished altogether under the heavy cross and most sharp persecution, what carnal pleasure hath alured them? what worldly voluptuousness hath and doth still entice them, in so great multitudes to embrace this doctrine? whereof if they taste never so small, they see present danger of death or loss of all their goods with banishment. Surely, this is the Lords doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes. But to conclude: this man, if he can not have love and praise for his valiant enterprise, yet by patiented bearing of hatred and reproach, he maketh full account of satisfaction for his sins. O miserable conscience of the Papists, which have no peace with god through faith in his infinite mercy, but seek to satisfy the straightness of his eternal justice, by such beggarly shifts as these, which also he is so uncertain whether they will serve his turn, that he feareth jest he loose all his labour, if he happen to loose the straight line of the Church's truth, which in these dark days, a man may quickly loose. What say you M. Allen? is it so hard a matter to keep the straight line of the Church's truth in these dark days? Why? Where is the city builded upon an hill that can not be hidden? Where is that visible and known Church which can not err? If that which was wont to be the only rule of truth among Papists fail you, try an other rule of the Protestants, and as Augustine exhorteth you, search the word of God in the holy Scriptures, and then undoubtedly you shall find the truth and the Church also, that is the pillar of truth, though the days be never so dark, or your eyes never so dim: if with like humility you would submit yourself to the judgement thereof, as you pretend to do to the ministers and pastors of your faith and religion. The Lord if it be his will, open your eyes, that you may see the truth, and give you grace when you see it, that you strive not against it, to your own destruction. THE PREFACE, WHEREIN BE NOTED TWO SORTS OF Heretics: th'one pretending virtue, tother openly professing vice. And that our time is more troubled by this second sort. With a brief note of the Author's principal intent in this Treatise. 1 ALthough heresy and all wilful blindness of man's mind, be undoubtedly a just plague of God for sin, and therefore is commonly joined with evil life both in the people and preachers thereof, as the history of all ages, and sundry examples of the Scriptures may plainly prove: yet by the guile and crafty conveyance of our common enemy the devil, The devils craft in promoting error. falsehood is often so cloaked in shadow and shape of truth, and the masters thereof make such show of virtue and godly life, that you would think it had no affinity with vice, nor origine of man's misbehaviour at all. So did he cover the wicked heresies of Manicheus, Hiero. in 7. cap. Osee. Martion, Tatianus, and the like, with a feigned flourish of continency and chastity: so did he overcast thenemy of God's grace Pelagius, with thappearance of all gravity, Augustin. epist. 120. constancy, and humility: and so hath he always, where craft was requisite to his intent, made show of a simple sheep in the cruel carcase of a wily wolf. This good condition S. Paul noted in him, in these words: Ipse enim Satanas ●ransfigurat se in Angelum lucis. 2. Cor. 11. For Satanas' his own person shapeth himself into an Angel of light. And that his scholars play the like part, our master Christ of singular love gave his flock this wachword, Matth. 7. for a special proviso: Attendite à falsis prophetis qui veniunt ad vos in vestimentis ovium, intrinsecùs autem sunt lupi rapaces. Take heed of false prophets that come in sheeps vesture, but within be ravening wolves. He saw (that seeth all things) that the outward face of feigned holiness might easily carry away the simple: he detected the serpent's subtlety, that none might justly plead ignorance, in a case so common: and withal for thinstruction of the faithful, he gave falsehood and her fortherers this mark for ever, that convey they never so clean or close, yet their unseemly works should ever detect their feigned faith. But all this notwithstanding, if we deeply weigh the whole course of things, we shall find that this counterfeiting of virtue and show of piety, is not the perpetual intent of the devils devise: but rather a needful shift in forthering his practice, there only where faith and virtue be not utterly extinguished, than the full end of any one of all his endeavours. For this may we assuredly find to be the scope & prick of all his cursed travel, to set sin and her followers in such freedom, The devils mark and thextreme and of heresy. that they need not (as often else) for their protection the cloak of virtue, nor habit of honesty: but that they may boldly encounter with the good and godly, and in open ostentation of their mischief, over run all truth and religion. Wherefore as he often cloaketh subtle heresies in honest life, and virtues weed, so when he by likelihoods conceiveth hope of better success, and further adventures, he then openeth a common school of sin and wickedness, where mischief may with out colour or craft be boldly maintained. This open school of iniquity, and doctrine of sin, Hieron sup. 13. Ezech. he once busily erected in the gentility, by the infamous philosopher Epicurus and his adherents: teaching to the singular offence of honesty, pleasure and voluptuousness to be th'only end of all our life and endeavours. The which pleasant sect, though it ever sense hath had some promoters, yet the very shade of feigned virtue, and worldly wisdom of those days, with ease bore down that enterprise. This broad practice was yet further attempted even in Christ's church: first by Eunomius, Eunomius. who doubted not in the face of the world, to avouch that none could perish (were his works never so wicked) that would be of his faith. And then by iovinianus, iovinianus. who taught the contempt of Christian fasts, matched marriage with holy maidenhood, and afterward to the great wonder of all the Church, persuaded certain religious women in Rome, to forsake their first faith, & marry to their damnation. For which plain supporting of undoubted wickedness, Cont. iovi libr. 2. S. Hierome calleth them often, Christian Epicures, boulsterers of sin, & doctors of ●ust and lechery. Nevertheless the force of God's grace, which was great in the spring of our religion, (the sin of the world not yet ripe for such open show of licentious life) speedily repressed that wicked attempt. Ad quod vult de haeresi. 82. For as S. Augustine declareth, it was so clear a falsehood, that it never grew to deceive any one of all the Clergy. But not long after, with much mor● advantage the like practice was assayed by Mahomet, the devils only darling: by whom numbers of wives together, often divorcies, and perpetual change for novelty, was permitted. By which doctrine of lust and liberty, the flower of Christiandom (alas for pity) was carried away. At which time though our faith & Christ's church were brought to a small room, and very great straits, yet by God's grace, good order, and necessary discipline, this school of lust hath been reasonably till our days kept under: and the gravity of Christian manners (as the time served) orderly upholden. TO THE PREFACE. 1 IF you had not promised and professed an orderly proceeding in this cause, we would never have inquired, whether good order would require, that an heretic should have been first defined, before he were divided. And especially in this controversy, where either party chargeth other with heresy, it had been convenient, that the right definition or description of an heretic had been first set down, that men might thereby have learned who is justly to be burdened with that crime. For an heretic is he, that in the Church, obstinately maintaineth an opinion, that is contrary to the doctrine of God, contained in the holy Scriptures, which if any of us can be proved to do, then let us not be spared, but condemned for heretics. But if just proof thereof can not be brought against us, but contrariwise we be able to show manifest evidence, that our adversaries doctrine is clean contrary to the Scriptures of God, then let the name of heretics be applied to them, to whom the definition doth agreed, with further punishment due to calumniators, that slander other men in that whereof they are guilty themselves. Now to the matter of this Preface, which as the argument declareth, consisteth of three parts, whereof the first is, that there be two sorts of heretics, the one pretending virtue, the other openly professing vice. This part is showed in three leaves following. In the substance of which point I will no● differ with you, yet something will I note in your handling thereof, as occasion moveth me. First you affirm that heresy and all wilful blindness is undoubtedly a just plague of God for sin, I mislike not your affirmation, but I marvel how you can affirm this, and be a good Catholic: when we cannot say half so much, but we are charged by you, to make God the author of sin. But such is the force of truth, that oftentimes the enemies thereof themselves, when they speak without contention cannot avoided a true confession. God therefore, as this Papist can not now deny, punisheth sin with sin, not as an evil author, but as a righteous judge. proceeding further you say that Christ hath given all heretics this mark, that there unseemly works should ever detect their feigned faith: wherein, you speak not only contrary to the truth, but even to your own affirmation before. For our Saviour Christ hath appointed false prophets to be known by their fruits, which is there false doctrine contrary to God's word, cloaked with the sheep skins of feigned holiness and virtue, which though it be many times discovered, yet is it many times so closely conveyed, that it clearly escapeth the judgement of all men. Who was ever able to charged that damnable heretic Pelagius with any notorious crime or wicked behaviour in his outward life and conversation? you yourself confess, that there appeared in him nothing, but gravity, constancy, and humility. If his doctrine had not been found contrary to the word of God, he should never have been tried to be a false prophet by his works. Such are many of his scholars the free will men of our time, whose opinion, if it were not manifestly repugnant to the authority of the holy Scriptures, there manners are unreprovable in the judgement of mortal men. The like may be said of jovinian (who if he were so great an heretic, as you make him) yet he himself as you show after out of Augustine, offended not in that, which he persuaded others to do. Your last example of heretics openly professing vice, is of Mahomet, by whose licentious doctrine, you affirm that your faith & Christ's Church, were brought to a small room & very great straits. If this be true tha● you affirm, that the Catholic Church must be otherwise esteemed, and by other notes than you are wont to describe it: or else, your Church by your own assertion can not be counted Catholic. For if Christ's Church be brought to a small room and great straits, where is universality, Consent of all nations, multitude of people, etc. that you are wont to talk of? But by your discipline the school of lust hath been reasonably, till our days, kept under, & the gravity of Christian manners as the time served, orderly upholden. You do well to qualify your asseveration with those terms, reasonably, orderly, and as the time served. For otherwise the whole Christian world should be witness against you, and yet to show, with what reason, order, or opportunity, the school of lust hath been shut up before our time, or yet is. Where your doctrine most prevaileth, let the filthy stews and brothel houses, opened in every city, yea and at your mother city of Rome, most licentiously of all other, not only by your governors permitted, but also by your doctors defended, let them I say, bear sufficient witness against you. 2 But now once again in our cursed days, the great flow of sin turning God's mercy from us, with exceeding provocation of his heavy indignation towards the wicked, hath made our adversary much more bold, and long practise of mischief, a great deal more skilful. Genes. 3. The serpent passed all other creatures in subtlety at the beginning, but now in cruelty he far passeth himself. The Devil taketh better hold in our time, than he did before. The downfall that he hath in a few years rage driven man unto, by thopen supporting of sinful living, it is sure very woeful to remember, and an exceeding hearts grief to consider. Look back at the Christian Epicures whom I now named, & view the men of like endeavour in all ages: compare their attempts to ours, their doctrine to ours, the whole race of their proceedings to ours: And if we match them not in all points, and pass them in most, (I except the wicked Mahomet, and God grant I may so do long: though they had out of his holy school, their often diuorci●s and new marriages in their wives life,) excepting him therefore, if ours pass not in open practice of mischief and supportation of sin, all the residue, miscredit me for ever. This is evident to all men, that things once counted detestable before God, abhorred of the priests, strange to the Christian people, punishable by the laws of all Princes, be now in case to maintain themselves, to give virtue a check mate, and without all colour to bear down both right and religion. Behold the liberty of sin. Thus doth sacrilege boldly bear out itself, and overreacheth the promoters of God's honour: so doth incest encounter with lawful marriage, the unordered Apostates shoulder the ordinary successors of the Apostles: Feasting hath won the field of fasting: & chambering almost banished chastity. It was surely a wonderful fetch of our busy adversary, when he so joined heresy and evil life together, that either might be a singular guard to tother: & both together, easily be the plague of all good order. And now the matter brought to such terms, and so evident an issue for the clear gain of sin here needeth no Caveat for the fruits of the doctrine, as in other cloaked heresies before, and continually in case of deceit is requisite (for no man can be deceived here, but he that willingly & wittingly list perish.) Having no excuse reasonable, why he should follow or credit the public professors of plain impiety: unlest this may be accounted cause sufficient of his light credit, that they term the foresaid offences and others the like not by their accustomed callings, but by some honester name of virtue. Note. Which thing rather showeth their folly, than excuseth their malice. For they must here be asked, by what right they change the names of things, that can not altar their natures. Who authorised them to call that extirpation of superstition, which our fathers called sacrilege? Or that blind devotion, which our holy elders named true religion? How can they for sin and shame honour that with the name of holy marriage, that S. Ambrose termeth adultery: Amb ad Virg. lapsá Cap. 5. August. de bono vid. 20.8. S. Augustin worse than adultery: & they with all the residue of the doctors, horrible incest? But because they can show no warrant, I must charge them for their labour with God's curse, pronounced upon all such by the Prophet's words, thus as followeth, Vae qui dicitis malum bonum, Esay. 5. & bonum malum, ponentes tenebras lucem, & lucem tenebras. woe to you that call evil good, and good evil: making darkness light, and the light darkness. But (as I said) in such open show of wickedness, and all unlikelihood of their assertions, there can none doubtless join with them, except they be alured by present pleasure, Sin driveth men to the doctrine of this time. or driven headlong by the heavy load of sin. For as I think, they do not follow these sect masters, as scholars moved by any probability of their teacher's persuasion, but rather join unto them as fit fellows of their lusts, and good companions for their own conditions. Ostendisti tales discipulos (saith S. Hierom to jovinian) non fecisti. Lib. 2. Thou hast but opened to the world who be thy followers, and not procured them thyself to be thy scholars. Yea S. Paul affirmeth by such lovers of lusts (whom he calleth Voluptatum amatores) that they should give over the true teachers, 2. ad Tim. Cap. 4. & provide or make masters for their own tooth. Ad sua desideria coaceruabunt sibi magistros. Sin therefore as it seemeth, hath engendered and framed herself this new faith, for the guard and safety of her person: And the ungodly procured for their own diet masters of perdition, ready both by life and doctrine, to further the lusts of licentious persons, to serve the itching ears of new fangled folks, & so to set them in all security, with words of peace and pleasure. Call to your memories the first entrance of this misery, and you shall find how they had certain persons in admiration (as the Apostle saith) for their own advantage. judas in Epist. Can. Since which time, these preachers have by observation raised up a perfect school of flattery, and brought the detestable excusing of most horrible sins, unto a formal art. It is long sith the Poet feigned that Gnato would have been the author of a sect, In Eunuch. and have had some scholars to bear his name: Here he might have had for his turn, but that the Epicure hath prevented him. The Prophet Ezechiel termeth this pernicious flattery in matters of such importance, the boulstering of wickedness. And giveth a heavy blessing from Almighty God, to all boulsterers in these words. Vae his qui consuunt puluillos sub omni cubito manus, & faciunt ceruicalia sub capite universae aetatis, ad capiendas animas. Woe be to all them that sow cushions under the elbow of every arm, and bolster up the heads of all ages, meaning to catch their souls. And surely if this curse took ever hold of any (as it could not proceed from God's mouth in vain) it must needs fall straight down upon these men, that wholly bend themselves thus to uphold iniquity, and to set sin soft. To such as made no store of good works, they cast only faith under their elbow to lean upon. To such as were burdened with promise of chastity, they made marriage a cushion for their ease. For such as cast an eye upon Church goods, they borrowed a pillow of judas: joan. 12. Quare non vaenijt trecentis denarijs, & datum est egenis? Why is not this made money of and given to the poor? And so in all points they artificially follow man's fantasy, nourish the humour of the ungodly, and preach peace with pleasure, Commit what you lift, omit what you list, your preachers shall praise it in their words, and practise it in their works. For look how they teach, and so do they live: far passing the Epicure, 2. De fin. who (as Cicero saith) in talk praised pleasure, but in all his life, was full courteous and honest. And much exceeding iovinianus, Vbi supra haere. 28. who as Augustine reporteth of him, being a Monk, maintained the marriage of votaries, but yet for diverse inconveniences, himself for all that would not be married. But ours being once in Bishop's room, or of that disordered new ministery ere they be well warmed in their benefices, as in all other licentious life they will lead the dance, so they must out of hand, for the most part, as though it were annexum ordini, as school men term it, have a wife with necessary cherishing to that state belonging. And good reason it is, that these delicate doctors having ever in readiness pillows for their friends ease, should want whole coutches for their own. But it were to long a matter for me at this present, purposing an other thing, How this sweet heresy first began. fully to declare how sin in all points hath achieved such liberty, by the unhappy yoking herself unto heresy. Only this may be noted briefly for that point: that generally in the beginning of their endeavours, they removed with speed out of their ways, as especial impediments and stumbling stocks, all those means which Christ commanded, or the Church prescribed, or our fathers followed for thabating of sins dominion: that the world might well understand, they meant the extolling of all vice, and to make the way for sin and wickedness. First that sovereign remedy of man's misdeeds, that grave judgement left by Christ to his Church, for the weal of us all, that power which the Son of man hath in earth to remit sins, the true court of man's conscience, the very word of reconcilement, and the board of refuge after shipwreck, which is the Sacrament of penance, they have to the unspeakable gain of sin unworthily removed. The subduing of man's pride by due obedience to his spiritual pastors, and humble honouring of the guides of God's Church, fitly for their purpose have they loosed. Fasting, which is the bridle of carnal concupiscence, & torment of all fleshly lusts, for sins sake they have set at such liberty, that it is almost lost. And what havoc in all other spiritual exercise is made for these men's free passage to hell, we see it: all the posterity shall feel it: and the very workers shall be weary of the way of wickedness, when they shall lack grace and space to repent them. But I can not now stand upon these points: Meaning at this time, only to overthrow an other like ground of this detestable school, which hath no less advanced sin then the other, and dishonoured God much more: which hath perniciously deceived not only open heretics, but also much weakened the devotion of some that otherwise were Catholics: The harm whereof pertaineth not only to most men that be alive, but also to many that be dead. That is the abolishing of penance, discrediting of purgatory, and abandoning of satisfaction for our offences committed. All which, being nothing else but a kind of soft handling, and sweet cherishing of sin, hath wrought such vain security in men's minds, that few have any feel or fear of God's judgements: few consider the deep wound that sin maketh in man's soul: and most men abhor the remedies requisite for so grievous a sore. When I look back at the flower & spring of Christ's church, and see sin counted so burdenous, and Gods dreadful punishment for the same so earnestly feared of all men, that no salve could be so sore, no penance so painful, but they would both have suffered and desired it, to have been fully free from the same: and withal consider the extreme dolour of heart, which all men then expressed by often tears, by humble acknowledging of their misliving to God's ministers in earth, & exceeding painful penance, by long fasting, dangerous peregrinations, A profitable comparing of the time passed with our present days. continual prayers, large alms, so sharply enjoined, so meekly received, and so duly fulfilled: and then returning again to our time and state, where I may and must needs behold the pitiful waist of Christian works, the marvelous shake of all good manners, and more than an image of mere paganism, as in which we find no face nor shadow of Christianity, not nor any step almost of our faithful father's paths: then do I well perceive, the issue and end of the last ground of this wasting heresy, to be nothing else but a canker of true devotion, an enemy to spiritual exercise, a security and quiet rest in sin, and briefly, a safeguard and presumptuous warrant, from the judgement of God's mighty arm, which reacheth over th'offences of the whole world. Evil we were before by other points of this deceitful doctrine, but by this last part we are utterly lost. For as truly S. Hierom writeth by their predecessors: Hoc profecit doctrina istorum, Vide supra. ut peccatum ne poenitentiam quidem habeat. This hath this doctrine of theirs won and wrought, that of sin there is no way of repentance: even so may we much more complain of this pernicious falsehood, that directly without all colour, hath razed up both the remedies of sin, and boldly discharged us of God's judgement and all penaulty for the same: that as before by falsehood and flattery we were led into the sweet school of sin, so now by thabbandoning of penance and purgatory, in vain hope and security we might needs for ever remain therein. 2 You have undertaken to prove that our time is troubled with heretics openly professing vice, by whom if you would mean the anabaptists and Libertines of our time, we would not strive with you: but seeing you are not ashamed to accuse thereof the true worshippers of God & professors of his Gospel, I must plainly tell you, that you are a blasphemer of God & a slanderer of his Saints. But let us consider your profess, and so we shall best bewray your blaspheming. First you will men to look back to the christian Epicures, whom before you named, from which number you except the wicked Mahomet, as though he also were a Christian Epicure, & we (say you) our doctrine, attempts & the whole race of our proceedings compared with them, shall not only match them in all points, but pass them in most. If your meaning were as your words sound, I would easily agreed with you, when you name yourself and your fellow Papists. But because I know, whatsoever you speak here of yourselves, you understand of us that are your adversaries, I must prove that which you said to be true, & that which you meaned to be false. For to leave your general tayling, not meet to be answered: I will come to your particular crimes which are sacrilege, incest, apostasy feasting and chambering. Then who are guilty of sacrilege? but they that rob God of his honour, and give it to stocks and stones? who are rather to be charged with incest than they which beside their abominable filthy life, allowed dispensation for such persons to marry, as the law of God and nature abhorreth? and where is apostasy to be found, if it be not in them which are clean departed from the faith of Christ, attending to spirits of error and doctrines of devils, forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanks giving. 1. Tim. 4. and as for feasting, where is it more gluttonous, then among the greatest professors of fasting? Even their Carthusian fasts, and their good friday fasts, among the wealth of that sect, compared with the sober diet of Christians, is voluptuous banqueting. And concerning chambering, if the world were not to to full of examples of their filthy lechery, which profess wifeless chastity: yea if their brutish lust were not broken out of the secret chambers into the open stews, I would spend more time to prove it. Then let all men indifferently judge who hath not matched, but also overpassed the Epicurean heretics of the former ages. There is yet an other crime contained in his former exception, and that is, that we follow Mahomet, in allowing often divorces and marriages in men's wives life. We allow no divorces, but such as Christ alloweth for adultery, and we wish that adulterers were punished as God commanded in his law, and then the other question of marriages were soon answered. But howsoever the adulteress liveth after divorcement, she is no more the wife of him from whom she was divorced. But far many more causes of divorcement doth the Pope's canon law devise, and if marriage after divorcement be unlawful, why is it dispensed with all by the Pope? But to return to our former accusations, which are so eagerly followed, that before any one piece of proof is brought against us, they are said to be so manifest, that we have not so much as any reasonable excuse to hide them, but only to term vice by the name of virtue. And then we must be examined by what right we change the names of things that can not altar their natures. Stay a while your examination M. Allen, this is no orderly proceeding. Good order would require, that you should first prove us guilty of the crimes, and then to take away our excuses. howbeit, I blame you not if you leave of the proof of those things, which would sooner reprove yourselves, then convict your adversaries. And yet that you may see how clear a conscience we have in these crimes objected, I will not refuse to answer your interrogatories, although by no lawful and orderly proceeding I can be compelled thereto. In primis, who authorised you to call that extirpation of superstition, which our fathers called sacrilege. To this I answer, I care not what your fathers called or counted sacrilege. But God our heavenly father commanded us to break, burn and destroy, all your idols, and to deface all the monuments of them. Deut. 12. And all the godly patriarchs and fathers, both before Christ's coming and since, have given us example of obedience unto this commandment, and the observation thereof they have termed the extirpation of superstition and idolatry. Or that blind devotion which our holy Elders named true religion? we learned of our Saviour Christ and his Apostles to condemn that for blind devotion which is not grounded upon certain knowledge of God's word, you worship you know not what, saith Christ to the Samaritane. john. 4. S. Paul chargeth the obstinate jews, with zeal without knowledge. Rom. 10. How can they for sin and shame honour that with the name of holy marriage that S. Ambrose termeth adultery, S. Augustine worse than advoultery, and they with all the residue of doctors horrible incest. The holy Ghost hath taught us to call marriage honourable in all men, and the bed undefiled, whatsoever any man hath said to the contrary. And yet divers godly men of the ancient fathers, as Hieronym and Epiphanius allow marriage in them that can not contain, although they have vowed virginity, even as the spirit of God also hath spoken by S. Paul. Because it is better to marry then to burn. Epipha. lib. 2. Hear. 61. Hieron. Epi. ad Demetriaden. And now that I have answered your questions: I must be bold to demand the same of you, what authority you have to change the names of things when you can not altar their nature? Who taught you to call that religion, which holy Scripture calleth Idolatry, or that true devotion, which God calleth vain worshipping, where learned you to call a gluttonous feast of fish, a religious fasting? or a sumptuous banquet of wine, spices, fruits and dainty conseites, a straight and holy abstinence? with what face or conscience can you call that overflowing lust of your popish unmarried Clergy, a pure and undefiled chastity? Finally, where learned you but of the Devil himself to command abstinence from meats and marriage, for religions sake? to some men at all times, and to all men at some times? If for these and an hundred such, you can show no better warrant, than the terms of your fathers, the practice of your elders, or the authority of mortal men, the curse of God pronounced by Esay, against them that call evil good, or good evil, must needs be turned over unto you. But to go on with this orderly proceeding, whereby we are first accused and then by and by condemned, without ever being convicted, or once put to the trial. Next of all, jest men should marvel how so manifest impiety could so mightily prevail, they are told that it is only present pleasure, and similitude of manners that joineth so many unto us. And for proof hereof, men must call to remembrance the first entrance of this misery how these preachers have had certain persons in admiration for their own advantage. We refuse not the trial, but let men on God's name call to remembrance how our doctrine began to be restored in these last days. I pray you what private advantage could they by any likelihood be supposed to seek, which incurred manifest danger of their lives by the lest suspicion of their profession? or what persons could they have in admiration, when all Princes & great personages were their greatest persecutors? but they wan them by flattery, and sewed them cushians under their elbows, and laid pillows under their heads. This is in deed a sore accusation, but where is the proof? Forsooth to such as made no store of good works, they cast only faith under their elbow to lean upon. O impudent blasphemer, which of us ever taught that such a faith as is not lively, & fruitful of good works, did ever profit any man but to the increase of his damnation? To such as were burdened with promise of chastity, they made a cushion for their ease. To such as had rashly vowed that which they could not possibly perform, not we but S. Paul saith, if they can not contain let them marry, for it is better to marry then to burn. S. jeronym otherwise an unmeasurable advancer of virginity, & dispraiser of marriage Ep. ad Dem. speaketh of virgins, that professed chastity and lived unpurely, etc. apertè dicendum est, ut aut nubant si se non possunt continere, aut contineant si nolunt nubere. It must be plainly said unto them, that either they should marry if they can not contain, or else contain if they will not marry. Epiphanius lib. 2. haer. 61. calleth marriage for such men not a cushion for their ease, but an wholesome medicine against their disease and the wound of burning, and that saith he, was the doctrine of the Church in his time. To such as cast an eye upon Church goods, they borrowed a pillow of judas, why was not this sold and given to the poor? If ever any man heard this text alleged by any preacher for such purpose, let that man be counted such one as M. Allen termeth him, if no man were heard ever to speak after that manner, let M. Allen be taken for a man of such truth, as he showeth himself to be. But it is a small thing to break the bonds of modesty in a few points, if a man strive not to pass impudency itself in shameless lying. Commit what you list, omit what you list, your preachers shall praise it in their words, and practise it in their works. Saving that vain glorious affecters of painted eloquence, be sometime so careful of their words, that they forget their matter. I would have thought that the father of lies himself the continual accuser of God's Saints, would have feared for ever loss of his credit, to have uttered so unseemly a slander of us. But I suppose that this disciple of his more regarding how finely, then how truly he inveigheth against his adversaries, had such pleasure in allusion of these terms commit and omit, praise and practise, words and works, that he respected not what sense they made, so they were handsomely matched together. Well, howsoever our works shallbe found when they shall be openly judged before him that best doth know them, I am sure they shall not prove worse than the popish clergy, and if they shall be examined by man's judgement, me think they should be very unequal judges, before whom we should not be able to approve our innocency, in comparison of our adversaries doings. But that in words we praise all manner of sin, whether it be in committing that which God forbiddeth, or in omitting that which God commandeth, If that I say can be proved against us, then let our enemy pursue our soul and take it, yea let him tread our life down to the earth and lay our honour in the dust. But to return to our works, what example is brought out to confirm the same? Not the particular faults of some of our profession, that might bear some colour of confirmation jest for the infirmity of every one of our side he might be requited with the enormities of an hundredth of his own sect, but that he chooseth which is common to most of our preachers, & not to be found in any one of theirs. This no doubt must be some great offence to justify so heinous an accusation. In deed a great mote in the Papists eyes, that is the marriage of our ministers. Blessed be God, that although some singular persons may be accused of notorious crimes, yet our whole state can not be charged by this instrument of Satan with no greater fault, than the allowance of Gods own institution. And yet see how this rolling rhetorician scoffeth with the school men's term of Annexum ordini. Be like S. Paul taketh marriage to be so annexed to the order of an ecclesiastical minister, that he never describeth the perfect pattern of a Bishop or Deacon, but one of the first points is, that he be the husband of one wife. But I pray you M. Allen though you can not away with the marriage of vowed Priests: are you also angry with the matrimony of our new disordered ministers (as it pleaseth you to call them) which never took your order, nor meddled with any vows? you were wont to accounted them for mere lay men, and will you not allow the marriage of lay men at lest wise to be lawful, if you can not with the Apostle call it honourable? Is that which the Apostle counteth honourable, of you called licentious life? and which the spirit of God nameth an undefiled bed, dare you term it contemptibly a couch for delicate persons ease? What have you here to cloak your open blasphemy, for your words are not of the abuse, but of the state of marriage itself. You proceed with like modesty to affirm that we have removed all those means that might serve for the abating of sins dominion, and which are they? For soothe the Sacrament of penance, fasting, and the opinion of purgatory. To the first we answer that we know no Sacrament of penance instituted by Christ, but the doctrine of repentance defaced by the false and devilish persuasions of auricular confession, superstitious satisfaction, and popish absolution we have faithfully restored, according as the same is taught in the holy Scriptures of God. And those other we have removed as being not only contrary to the doctrine of God's word, but also as most pernicious pillows and blasphemous bolsters of all sin and security. For what fear or conscience could be of sin intended or committed, where this persuasion took place, that, the fast once rehearsed in the ear of a priest, and a few words by him pronounced after a sorry satisfaction of a pelting penance according to the priests pleasure, was a full and sufficient discharge both before God and the world. And as for the power and authority of pardoning or retaining sins, that our Saviour Christ hath committed to his ministers, is not taken away by us, but truly declared to be the judgement of God and not the absolute authority of man. But how blasphemously the Papists challenge unto themselves this authority, let it appear by this that M. Allen calleth it, that power which the son of man hath in earth to forgive sins, by which words our Saviour Christ challengeth unto himself, that which is proper unto his divinity, although he were humbled in the shape of a servant upon earth, namely an absolute authority to forgive sins, which none hath in heaven or in earth but only God. And as to the removing of fasting, if that be fasting which they call fasting, namely the eating of fish, it hath not been diminished but increased in our time, and as for true fasting and abstinence in deed, it hath been publicly commanded & observed as occasion was offered, and private fasting with the right use thereof is still commended in our doctrine, & men exhorted unto it. Only the abuses, superstition and devilish doctrine set forth by the papists is removed, if it be little practised, it is because among many professors there are but few followers of the Gospel. But look upon the persecuted congregations and you shall see often public fasting, the private exercise the Lord knoweth, and hath commanded to be covered rather then opened. Now must we come to the opinion of purgatory, which in deed together with mass of Scala coeli, we have utterly removed and digged up even from the very foundations, howsoever M. Allen gathering together the old rude rubbish, & tempering it with new & fine cement, would labour to build it up again. And even as I said of popish confession and satisfaction, so say I of purgatory, we abhor the opinion thereof, not only as blasphemous against the blood of Christ which purgeth us from all our sins, but also as a very canch of careless security, which Satan hath devised to advance the dominion of sin. For where as the fear of everlasting torments of hell fire is the right terror to bridle iniquity, as that which is due for sins and wickedness, & yet restraineth not the ungodly from their abominable life, what restraint shall there be when the eternal pains are changed into temporal, & the temporal pains may be redeemed by so small a price as popish satisfactions may be bought for? which redemption if it be neglected in men's life, yet it may be performed by their friends after their death. M. Allen saith few of us consider the deep wound that sin maketh in man's soul. But we may justly say to the Papists that they neither consider the depth of the wound, nor the perfection of the medicine. For we consider the wound of sin to be as deep, as the deepest pit in hell, which will not be filled up with the slabbersawce of men's merits and satisfactions, but only with the blood of the only son of god, which is so sovereign a salve for this so desperate a sore, that of them that were the children of wrath and dead in sins, it quickeneth them, raiseth them to life, and placeth them in heaven with Christ. Ephes. 2. And as for that painful penance, that M. Allen complaineth to be so neglected in our time, he chargeth us unjustly with the cause thereof. For within time of man's memory, before the light of the Gospel did shine openly, we saw no such painful penance commonly, but u ladies psalters, u pater nosters, u pence to u poor men in remembrance of the u wounds, u fry days fast and such like. And as for pilgrimage, it was but a pastime for such as loved to rove about the countries. The hardest penance was to pay so dear for the paltry of Monks merits, and Friars fables, Pope's pardons, and such like. Et hinc illae lachrymae. This maketh the bitter complaint, that this merchandise will no more be bought, but this is the judgement of God upon the great whore of Babylon. 3 Considering therefore the great spread of contagion that this untrue doctrine hath wrought both to the everlasting misery of heretics themselves, and also to the grievous punishment that almighty God of just judgement may take upon us (that by his great mercy be yet Catholics) because we live in wanton wealth, with out just care or cogitation of our life past: Neither doing any worthy fruits of penance, nor yet endeavouring to make a mends and recompense by satisfying for our sins, before of mercy so pardoned that to our damnation they can not now any more be imputed, but yet for answering in sum part of God's justice, and perfect purging of the same sinful life passed, out of all doubt sharply punishable: for these things I say, and for the stirring up of the fear of God in myself, Why this treatise was taken in hand. the help of the simple, the defence of the truth, and thabating of this great rage of sin and heresy, I thought good to give warning (moved thereunto by my friend also) to all such as be not themselves able to search out the truth of these matters, of that temporal or transitory punishment which God of justice hath ordained in the other world, for such as would not judge themselves, and prevent his heavy hand whiles they here lived: our forefathers (more than a thousand year since) called it Purgatory. The truth and certain doctrine whereof, I trust through God's goodness so clearly to prove, that the adversary (be he never so great with the Devil) shall never be able to make any likely excuse of his infidelity. The matter of the first book. The argument of the second book. And that so done, I shall both open and prove the means which the Church of God hath ever profitably used for the relief of her children from the same punishment, to the sovereign good, and comfortable for the faithful souls departed. And here I heartily pray thee gentle Reader, whosoever thou be, that shall find just occasion undoubtedly to believe this article of necessary doctrine, ever constantly set forth by the gravest authority that may be in earth, that, as thou faithfully believes it, so thou perpetually in respect of the day of that dreadful visitation, study with fear and trembling to work thy salvation. Let that be for ever the difference betwixt the unfruitful faith of an heretic, and the profitable belief of the true Catholic Christian: that this may work assured penance to perpetual salvation, and his vain presumption to everlasting damnation. And though the matter which I have taken in hand, be nothing fit for the diet of such delicate men as have been brought up under the pleasant preaching of our days, yet perchance, change of diet with the sharpness of this eager sauce, were, if they could bear it, much more agreeable to their weak stomachs. Cyp. Epist. 3. lib. 5. Truth was ever bitter, and falsehood flattering. For th'one by present pain procureth perpetual wealth, tother through deceitful sweetness worketh everlasting woe. But as for these pleasure preachers themselves, because I fear me they have indented with death, and shaked hands with hell, whatsoever may be said in this case, they will yet spurn with the words of the wicked. Isai. 28. Flagellum inundans cum transierit not veniet super nos: quia posuimus mendacium spem nostram, & mendacio protecti sumus. Tush, the common scourge when it passeth over shall not touch us, for we have made lying our succour, and by lying are we guarded. Yet when the light of the apostolic tradition shall dase their eyes, and the force of God's truth bear down their boldness, their own black afflicted conscience, by inward acknowledging that truth which they openly withstand, shall so horribly torment their minds, that denying Purgatory they shall think themselves alive in hell. But gentle Readers pray for them with tears, that God of his mighty grace would strike their flesh with his fear. Prayer is th'only remedy against wilful blindness. And if my poor pain with the prayers of us all, could turn any one of them all from the way of wickedness, it would recompense doubtless some of our sins, and cover a number of my misdeeds. And ever whilst we live let us praise God that in this time of temptation he hath not suffered us to fall, as our sins have deserved, into the misery of these forsakers. To whom if I speak sometimes in this treatise more sharply than my custom or nature requireth, the zeal of truth and just indignation towards heresy, with the example of our forefathers, must be my excuse and warrant. I will be as plain for the unlearneds sakes as I may, & the matter suffer. And therefore now at the first I will open the very ground, as near as I can, of so necessary an article: that the ignorance of any one piece may not darken the whole cause. Desiring the studious to read the whole discourse, because every peculiar point so jointly dependeth of the residue, that the knowledge of one, orderly giveth light to all the other. And so the whole together I ●rust shall reasonably satisfy his desire. 3 Here (as I take it) in the second face of the 18. leaf, beginneth the 3. matter promised in the argument, namely a brief note of the author's intent, etc. The chief consideration (as I gather) is for that men endeavour not to make amends and recompense, by satisfying for their sins, and therefore for answering some part of God's justice, and perfect purging of the same sinful life passed, there remaineth sharp punishment after this life. I will commit to Christ, to be revenged, the horrible injury done to his death and blood shedding, which if it be not a full answering of God's justice, and a perfect purging of all our sinful life, in vain shall we seek it else where. But I will reason with M. Allen in his own principles. What say you Sir? remaineth there some part of God's justice to be answered by suffering? Surely, if the passion of Christ will not serve, that was the immaculate lamb of God, it were strange that the suffering of a sinful man should satisfy the same. And if suffering of the party that hath sinned be necessarily required, for answering some part of God's justice, how can the same suffering be mitigated by masses, pardons, merits, etc. or clean taken away by a pardon of jubely, à poena, & culpa? Again, how can the merits of an other, abate his punishment, which must suffer himself to answer God's justice? If the justice of God be not answered by the offering of Christ, how is it answered, when any man's suffering is by any of your means mollified or taken away? But it sufficeth you that your forefathers, more than a thousand years ago, called that place of sufferance, purgatory. But I pray you what is it called in the Scripture? either of the old testament or the new, or in the first and second hundredth years after Christ? diverse errors be older than a thousand years, but age can never make falsehood to be truth, and therefore I way not your proud brags worth a straw. I am one of the lest of God's ministers, and not worthy, in respect of my greatest infirmities, of the lowest place in his Church, yet by his grace and the authority of his holy word, I shall be able to overthrow, both this and all other babylonical bulwarks, that are cast up by Satan and all his instruments. For the defence of popish heresy, against the truth of God. And neither the mist of men's inventions, which you call the light of apostolic tradition, shall be able to darken the truth of the Gospel, nor the errors of mortal men, which you term the force of God's truth, shall bear down th'authority of God's holy spirit. And as for the torment of conscience, by inward acknowedlging of the truth openly withstanded, it is not like you could so lively describe it, if you had not experience of it in yourself. Our consciences (most humble and hearty thanks we yield to the infinite mercy of God) are washed white and purged from all blackness, by the precious blood of Christ, which is the propitiation for our sins, that cleave unto him by true & lively faith: and open judgement shall one day show, that all obstinate Papists, which seek to establish their own justice, shall be void of the justice of God, & while they wrestle to come out of purgatory, they take the high way to fall headlong into hell. God lighten the eyes of them that are blind of simplicity, and confounded all such as sin of malicious wickedness. The excuse of your sharp speech, perhaps might seem probable, if you did not use intolerable slandering and railing, which neither by zeal of truth, nor example of godly fathers, can well be shadowed, much less warranted. THAT OFTEN AFTER OUR SINS BEFORE GIVEN BY THE sacrament of penance, there remaineth some due of temporal punishment, for the satisfying of God's justice, & some recompense of the offences past. CAP. I 1 AS it is most true, Ephes. 1 Heb. 9 and the very ground of all Christian comfort, that Christ's death hath paid duly and sufficiently for the sins of all the world, by that abundant price of redemption paid upon the Cross: August. Enche. cap. 65. So it is of like credit to all faithful, that no man was ever partaker of this singular benefit, but in the knot and unity of his body mystical, which is the Church. To the members whereof, the streams of his holy blood and beams of his grace, for the remission of sin & sanctification, be orderly, through the blessed Sacraments as condethes of God's mercy, conveyed. All which Sacraments, though they be instituted and used as means to derive Christ's benefits, Mark the ground of the cause. and bestow his grace of redemption upon the worthy receivers: yet like effect or force, is not by the meaning of their first author and institutor, employed upon all receivers, nor given to all the Sacraments. That may well appear, if we mark the exceeding abundant mercy, that is powered upon all men at their first incorporation and entrance into the household of the faithful, by Baptism: In which Sacrament, the merits of our master's death be so fully and largely carried down for the remission of sin, that were the life before never so laden with most horrible offences, that in this misery man may commit, yet the offender is not only pardoned of the same, but also perfectly acquieted for ever, of all pain or punishment (other than the common miseries of mankind) which his proper offences before committed by any means might deserve. And no less free now then the child after baptism, which only original sin brought thither. So saith S. Ambrose by these words: Gratia Dei in Baptismate non quaerit gemitum, Super unde. ca ad Rom. aut planctum, aut opus aliquod, nisi solum ex cord professionem. The grace of God in Baptism requireth neither sorrow nor mourning, nor any other work, but only an hearty profession of thy faith. Whereby he meaneth, that after our sins be once thus freely wiped away in our first regeneration, there is no charge of punishment or penance for farther relief of the same. But now a man that is so freely discharged of all evil life and sin committed before he came into the family, if he fall into relapse, Note. & defile the temple of God, then (as God's mercy always passeth man's malice) even in this case also, he hath ordained means to repair man's fall again. That is, by the Sacrament of penance which therefore, In cap. 3. Isai. S. Hierome termeth the second table, or refuge after shipwreck: as a means that may bring man to the port of salvation, though lightly not without present damage and danger. In which blessed Sacrament, though God's grace have mighty force for man's recovery, and worketh abundantly both remission of sins, and the discharge of eternal punishment due by just judgement to the offender, yet Christ himself (the author of this Sacrament as the rest) meant not to communicate such efficacy or force to this, as to baptism, The force of Christ's death is not so largely applied unto us in the Sacrament of penance as in Baptism. for the utter acquieting of all pain by sinful life deserved. For as in Baptism, where man is perfectly renewed, it was seemly to set thoffender at his first entrance on clear ground, and make him free for all things done abroad: so it exceedingly setteth forth God's justice, and nothing impareth his mercy, to use (as in all common wealths by nature and God's prescription is practised) with grace discipline, with justice clemency, with favour correction, and with love, due chastisement of such sins, as have by the household children been committed. Now therefore, if after thy free admission to this family of Christ, thou do grievously offend, remission may then be had again: but not commonly without sharp discipline, seeing the father of this our holy household punisheth where he loveth, Ad Heb. 12. and chastiseth every child whom he receiveth. Whose justice in punishment of sin, not only the wicked, but also the good must much fear. Whereof S. Augustine warneth us thus: Deus (saith he) nec justo parcit, nec iniusto: Lib. 22. contra Faustum cap. 20. illum flagellando ut filium, istum puniendo ut impium. God spareth neither the just, nor unjust: chastising th'one as his child, punishing the other as a wicked person. A child then of this household continuing in favour, though he can not everlastingly perish with the impenitent sinners, yet he must (being not by some especial prerogative pardoned) bear the rod of his father's discipline. And gladly say with the prophet. In flagella paratus sum. I am ready for the rods. And whatsoever these wantoness, that are run out of this house, Psal. 37. for their own ease or other men's flattery shall forge, let us continued in perpetual cogitation of our sins forgiven: and by all means possible recompense our negligences past. Let us not think but God hath somewhat to say to us, even for our offences pardoned: being thus warned by ●is own mouth. Apoc. 2.4. Sed habeo adversum te pauca, quòd charitatem tuam primam reliquisti: Memor esto itaque unde excideris, & age poenitentiam, & prima opera fac. But somewhat I have against thee, because thou art fallen from thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou fell, do penance, and begin thy former works again. And the consideration of this diversity betwixt remission had by baptism, and after relapse by the sacrament of penance, moved Damascen to call this second remedy, De orth. fide lib. 4. ca 9 Baptismum vere laboriosum, quod per poenitentiam & lachrymas perficitur. A kind of Baptism full of travel, by penance and tears to be wrought. In which God so pardoneth sins, that both the offence itself, and the everlasting pain due for the same being wholly by Christ's death & merits wiped away, there may yet remain the debt of temporal punishment on our part to be discharged, as well for some satisfaction of God's justice, against the eternal ordre whereof we unworthily offended, In Ench. cap. 65. as for to answer the Church of her right (as S. Austin saith) in which only all sins be forgiven Mary when occasion of satisfying for our offences in this life is neglected, or lack of time, by reason of long continuance and late repentance, suffereth not due recompense in our life, which is the time of mercy, than certes the hand of God shall be much more heavy, and the punishment more grievous. And this is with out doubt to be looked for, that the debt due for sin, must either here by pain or pardon be discharged, or else to our greater grief after our departure required. CAP. I 1 ALthough the argument of this chapter be but one, yet I thought it good to divide the answer into two parts. The former part containeth his proposition, the latter his confirmation. And first concerning the sufficiency of Christ's redemption, there is nothing can be spoken so magnifically, but that the worthiness thereof passeth and exceedeth it. I will therefore agreed with you in that you say of the comfort, sufficiency and abundant p●●ce of the death of Christ, and I would you would always agree with yourself in the constant confession of the same truth, I receive also that which you affirm, that the benefit of his death, extendeth also to the members of his mystical body. But in that which you make to be the only mean, whereby the same is conveyed and applied unto us, I can not but descent from your judgement. For the mean on God's behalf, by which we are made partakers of the fruits of Christ's passion, and so grafted into his body, is his holy spirit of promise, which is the earnest and assurance of our inheritance, who worketh in us faith, as the only mean by which the righteousness of Christ is applied unto us. Eph. 1. And as for the Sacraments, which you seem to make the only condittes of God's mercy, we are taught in the holy Scriptures, that they are the seals of Gods promises given for the confirmation of our faith, as was circumcision to Abraham, when he was justified before through faith, Rom. 4. You will us in the margin, to mark the ground of your cause, which is in deed a good admonition. For seeing the ground of your cause leaneth upon your only affirmation, and is contrary to th'authority of God's word, injurious to the spirit of God, and neglecting the faith of Christ, what so ever you build thereupon, must needs be like the foundation. But how should your free will be maintained? if God's spirit had any place, that distributeth to every one according to the good pleasure of his own william. 1. Cor. 12. And how should the Sacrament give grace of the work wrought? if faith were requisite in them that receive them. Of like authority it is, which you say, that like effect is not given to all the Sacraments. Surely all the Sacraments of Christ's institution, have like effect in Gods elect. But let us hear your difference. By baptism all sin committed before, and the punishment thereof, is clearly forgiven, by the Sacrament of penance, though the sin be forgiven, yet there remaineth a temporal punishment. When the Pope giveth a general pardon à poena & culpa, doth he not it by the sacrament of penance? if he do it by that sacrament, then are temporal pains also remitted thereby. Thus one falsehood overthroweth an other. But Christ you say the author of this sacrament, meant not to communicate such efficacy ●o this, as to Baptism. Here are two assertions, first of the author, then of the force of this Sacrament, but neither of both able to be proved by the word of God. Nevertheless here is brought in that which is thought to be the pillar, not only of purgatory, but also of all other popish satisfactions: namely the chastisement and correction, that God ministereth to his children, whose sins he hath pardoned, which is not a satisfaction for the sins past, but a warning for the time to come, and is never accounted in scripture, for an answering of God's justice, but a token of his mercy, being not the punishment of a judge, but the chastisement of the father to the amendment of his child that suffereth, and for an admonition of other, that they likewise offend not. Heb: 12. And after this manner, are also those places to be understood, where God is said to punish the offences of his children. But whereas M. Allen allegeth the saying of Christ unto the Angel of the Church of Ephesus, Apoc. 2. But I have somewhat against thee, etc. to prove that God hath somewhat to say for our offences pardoned, I marvel whether he were sleeping or waking when he wrote it, for there the pastor and Church is charged, for their offence which is not to be pardoned, except they repent, & if they repent to be clearly remitted. But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, or, age poenitentiam, with M. Allen, is do penance, & doing of penance, with him soundeth to make satisfaction. He professeth in one place his ignorance in the Greek tongue: but if he would but acknowledge what poenitere in Latin signifieth to be sorry, he need not to have occupied himself in alleging that place. But proceeding a little further, he maketh two causes why the debt of temporal punishment remaineth to be discharged by us. One for some satisfaction of God's justice, as though the satisfaction of Christ were imperfect. An other to answer the Church of her right (as S. Augustine saith). In deed the old discipline of the Church, required that open offenders, should not only repent privately before God, but also show open signs of hearty repentance for satisfying the Church, by whom they were to be received as before their repentance they were cast out. And in this sense, satisfaction is often used by the ancient fathers, and not to fulfil the righteousness of God, either by doing or suffering of any thing. Seeing therefore that God● justice is thoroughly satisfied by Christ's suffering, there remaineth no satisfaction to be supplied by men. For the afflictions of the faithful, are t●e matter of their patience and conformity with Christ their head, the punishments that are inflicted upon them, are the corrections of mercy, not the satisfactions of justice. There remaineth therefore no temporal punishment for satisfying of God's justice in our life, and much less after our death. 2 And this to be the grave doctrine and constant faith of the fathers I must first declare: both for that it shall firmly establish our whole matter, and clearly open the case of controversy betwixt us and the forsaken company. Who would so gladly live at ease in their only faith, that they list neither satisfy for their sins, nor procure God's mercy by well working. In this case then let us seek the order of Gods justice, by the diligent consideration of some notable personages, of whom we may have by the plain Scripture evident testimony both of the remission of their sins, and their penance and punishment after they were reconciled again. Our first father Adam, Adam that first did fall, and was first pardoned▪ did yet abide the scourge for his sins. in whom we may behold almost the whole course of God's judgement, and through whom both sin and all punishment due for sin entered into the world, I think he had the first benefit by Christ's death for the remission of his disobedience: or at the lest (because I would not avouch an uncertain thing) this I am sure, that by Christ he was raised up to God's favour again. Of whom we find it thus written in the book of wisdom. Haec illum qui primus formatus est pater orbis terrarum, cum solus esset creatus, custodivit: Cap. 10. & eduxit illum a delicto suo. This (saith he, meaning by Christ under the name of wisdom) safely preserved him that was first formed of God, the father of the world, when he was created all alone: and raised him out of his sin again. The which disobedience (with what other sin so ever was thereunto in him joined) though it was thus clearly pardoned, yet the punishment thereof, both he felt long after in his own person, and it lieth upon his posterity till this day. For which sin he himself began to do penance (as Irenaeus saith) even in paradise: Lib. ●. ca 33 and then God practised judgement upon him (as Augustine noteth) first by his disinheritaunce, then by painful travel enjoined, by the unaptness of the earth to serve his turn, by rebellion of the inferior creatures, by the troublesome motions of his own affections, & briefly in all points by a loathsome life and a dreadful death. Yea and that his punishment ceased not in this world by his death, but many hundredth years after remained as further condemnation of his disobedience, I shall more conveniently anon declare. Now seeking further to have clear and open evidence in this case, we can not wish more proof than may be had by the strange working and dispensation of God, in the manifold affairs of that sanctified people, and chosen nation of the Israelites. In which peoples perpetual protection, a man might find a perfect plat of mercy and judgement. So often they fall, so suddenly they rise: so grievously they offend, such mercy they find, that it is marvelous to consider. Of this elect family therefore thus God speaketh. Psal. 88 Si autem dereliquerint filij eius legem meam, & in judicijs meis non ambulaverint, visitabo in virga iniquitates eorum, & in verberibus peccata eorum: misericordiam autem meam non dispergam ab eo, neque nocebo in veritate mea. If his children reject my law, and walk not in my judgements, with rod will I visit their wickedness, and in stripes their sins: yet will I not take my mercy from him (or them, as it is also red) nor harm him in my truth. God's people first pardoned, was then ●fter punished. Exod. 32. This people, at their first passage out of Egypt committing horrible idolatry, was pardoned thereof at the instance of Moses: yet so saith our Lord God unto him: Ego autem in die ultionis, visitabo & hoc peccatum eorum: But yet in the day of revengement, I will visit this their offence also. The same people offending grievously again by murmur and mistrust of God's careful providence towards them, at their governors humble suit were expressly forgiven in these words. Numer. 14. Dimisi juxta verbum tuum. I have pardoned them according to thy word. But after their assured warrant for the full remission of the fault, & the eternal pain due to that grievous sin, behold yet their punishment temporal for the same. Attamen omnes homines qui viderunt maiestatem, etc. For all that (saith our Lord) every one that hath seen my majesty, and the wonders which I wrought in Egypt, & in the wilderness, & yet hath notwithstanding tempted me ten times, shall not behold the land for which I bond myself by oath to their forefathers. But passing the people's sin Moses and Aron themself, in many points minister abundant proof of this matter. Who both dying in perfect favour of God, yet for their mistrust were discharged of guiding God's people, or entering themself into the land so heartily desired, and so long looked for before, Num. 20. Of these two the Prophet saith thus: Psal. 98. Custodiebant testimonia eius & praeceptum quod dedit illis. Deus tu propitius fuisti eyes, & ulciscens, in omnes adinuentiones eorum. They observed his testimonies, and the charge that he gave unto them. Lord God thou wast merciful unto them, and sharply revenged their own inventions. The like ordinance of God's justice in punishment of such as he highly favoured, may appear in Samson, in Hely, sudic. 16. 1. Reg. 3. & all other notorious personages in the whole Scripture. But the heartily beloved of God King David's example so beareth down our adversaries, that I can not well omit it, though I now long to be nearer my matter. This Prophet had an express pardon, with a plain proviso that he should notwithstanding bear the heavy hand of God, for the punishment of his former sin. Once for taking pride in the multitude and numbering of his people, God, though he pardoned him, yet by the prophet, 2. Reg. vlt. God gave him leave to choose of three named scourges, which he would: to whom he answered. Coarctor nimis: sed melius est incidere in manus Domini, multae enim sunt misericordiae eius. I am sore urged: but better it is to fall into God's hands, for his mercies be exceeding many. And so according to his election, he had many thousands of his people perished by God's plague. Of whose case, S. Gregory saith marvelous much in these few words. Deus delictum delet, sed inultum non deserit: peccato non parcitur, quia sine vindicta non laxatur. Lib. 9 in job. cap. 82. God wipeth away man's offence, but he leaveth it not unpunished: sin is not spared, because it is not without revenge released. But before this, he had a full warrant of remission of his horrible murder and adultery, by the Prophet Nathan, saying unto him thus after his repentance. 2. Reg. 12. Dominus quoque transtulit peccatum tuum, nonmori eris: veruntamen quoniam blasphemare fecisti inimicos nomen Domini propter verbum hoc, filius qui natus est tibi morte morietur. Our Lord hath removed thy sin: nevertheless, because thou hast made thenemies blaspheme our lords name by this word, thy son which is borne unto thee shall die the death. Of which matter S. Augustine by occasion talking against Faustus, asketh what manner of pardon it was, Lib. 23. cap. 67. that the Prophet brought from God unto David. And he answereth thus. Ad quam rem nisi ad sempiternam salutem? neque enim praetermissa est in illo, secundum Dei comminationem, flagelli paterni disciplina. To what end else (had he his pardon) but to everlasting-saluation? For he scaped not the scourge of his father's discipline, according as the threatening of God before did portend. All the forsa●d examples then being so evident, they must needs conclude this assuredly, that after our offences be remitted, there commonly yet remaineth some pain and right debt, to be discharged by the offender's punishment, before he receive the ample benefit of eternal salvation. 2 Now cometh in the colourable confirmation of this false proposition, and that by examples of the holy Scripture, which must therefore more diligently be weighed, because they are so seldom alleged. But first he must rail a crash at the forsaken Protestants, which would so gladly live at ease in their only faith, that they list neither to satisfy for their sins, nor to procure God's mercy with good works. doubtless (M. Allen) they list not by seeking to justify themselves, procure to be forsaken of God. But you Papists are they, that seek to justify yourselves, like the old pharisees, and boast of your prayers, fastings and satisfactions, but God knoweth what you are within. As for our only faith shall stand before God, when your infidelity shall condemn you, and the fruits of our only faith shall appear to God's glory, when the vain brag of your meritorius works shallbe discovered to your eternal shame. But to come to your examples, I must admonish the Reader, that neither your wit, memory, diligence, nor learning, deserveth any commendations, for alleging them that have so often before been abused, by all them that of your side have defended your cause, of whom you are but a translator or borrower, not an author or observer yourself. And therefore I might justly refer the Reader to the learned and godly answers of so many, as have impugned this heresy before, but because every man either can not or will not seek further than this book, I will briefly answer every example, as it is an easy matter to do, they are so unfitly applied to the purpose for which they are alleged. The first example is of our first parent Adam, whose sin though it were pardoned through Christ, yet he and all his posterity feeleth the punishment thereof. An argument very far fetched to maintain the pains of purgatory. The miseries of this life in that they be common to the godly, with the wicked, they sufficiently declare, that they are no satisfaction for sin, but a demonstration of our miserable condition to humble us, & make us desirous of restitution by Christ. And although they were enjoined by the curse of God against sin, yet to those that are delivered from the curse of God by the blessed seed jesus, they also are converted into blessings. Hereof the godly rejoice in afflictions, knowing that afflictions work patience, patience worketh trial, trial hope, and hope confoundeth not, yea by them we are made conformable unto Christ, that suffering with him we may reign with him. Rom. 5. & 8. As for that which Adam suffered after his death, when you have declared it, then will I also confute it. Next followeth the examples of the Israelites which often fell, were punished and rose again. The former example was not so far of in time, as this is in matter, for that example although it were impertinent, yet it had some similitude with the cause, for that Adam was pardoned, and yet bore some part of punishment. But here are brought in the whole people, among whom many were wicked, and commonly more hypocrites then true Israelites, and yet the very text alleged out of the 88 Psalm, declareth that the godly children which were punished, were chastised in mercy, and not condemned by justice. And as for the saying of God. Exod. 32. that notwithstanding he had pardoned the Israelites, yet he would visit their sin in the day of vengeance, little helpeth the matter. For the pardon was general to the whole people, that he would not destroy them from being a nation, as appeareth in the 14. verse of that chapter, but not particular to every one, that he would remit their sin & take them into his favour, as appeareth verse 33. where he saith, that who so ever had sinned he would put him out of his book. The same answer serveth for the like text. Num. 14. But Moses & Aaron are examples of this matter most manifest. I answer to the punishment of Moses & Aaron, as to the punishment of all other faithful persons, they were not to satisfy the justice of God, but to declare his mercy in admonishing them, and others by their examples, how odious sin is unto him, and yet even the chastisement of God is a benefit unto his children, not only because it is a sign of his fatherly love toward them, but also because he converteth it always unto their reward and profit. As in the example of Moses and Aaron, it was a fatherly rod to discharge them of guiding God's people, and entering into the land of promise: but in the mean time it was a great benefit that they were discharged of a heavy and troublesome burden, and entered sooner into that land of eternal life, whereof the other was but a sign and shadow. And therefore the Psalmist saith justly of them, that God was merciful unto them, in revenging their inventions. But because S. Augustine's words may be of more credit with you, he saith of the death of Moses & Aaron, that they were signa futurorum non supplicia indignationis Dei. Signs of things to come not punishments of God's displeasure. question. Num. lib. 4. Quest. 53. But the example of King David is counted a great and special bulwark of this cause, which notwithstanding is answered even as the rest. David the child of God, was beaten with the merciful rod of God's fatherly correction, and set as an example to God's children of all ages, to show how God abhorreth murder and adultery. And although the pain were bitter for the time, as all chastisement is, yet no doubt but he received great profit thereby. Heb. 12. And as for the plague for numbering the people, it fell upon them for their own sins, as the text is plain. The saying of Gregory, that God leaveth no sin unpunished, which is pardoned: if it be understood that all the sins of the faithful are punished in Christ, which become sin for us, it is most true. But if he mean that God punisheth all sins that he pardoneth in the parties themselves, it is contrary to the manifest word of God, and infinite examples of the Scripture. The Publican, the prodigal child, the debtor, all clearly remitted, do plainly prove that God freely forgiveth, justifieth, rewardeth the penitent sinners, without exacting any punishment of them for answering of the debt, satisfying for the sins, abusing his fatherly clemency. Luke 7. & 15. & 18. Finally for avouching mine answer, I would wish no better authority of the ancient fathers, then even that which M. Allen himself allegeth out of Augustine contra Faustum, lib. 23. cap. 67. that the punishment of David, was flagelli paterni disciplina, the chastisement of God's fatherly scourge, as he doth most plainly declare the same in his book de peccatorum meritis ac remissione, lib. 2. cap. 33. and for a flat conclusion contradictory to M. Allens assertion, I will use the very words of Chrysostome in the 8. Hom. upon the Epistle to the Rom. Vbi venia ibi nulla erit poena. Where there is forgiveness, there is no punishment. The double and doubtful shifts of our adversaries pressed by this conclusion, are removed: and it is proved against one sort, that these foresaid scourges were in deed punishments for sins remitted. And against tother sect, that this transitory pain hath often endured in the next life. CAP. II 1 ANd the weight of this foresaid ground, hath ever pressed the adversaries of truth so sore, that beholding as it were a far of, what inconvenience this might import, they ever busily endeavoured to stay the beginning of their likely overthrow. But yet (as it was and will be for ever noted in false teachers) they seek diverse escapes, so disagreeable, that one hindereth an other, and neither of them helps their own cause. One sort not so impudent, but a great deal more foolish than their fellows, agreed by force of the places named and evidence of the examples, that there is punishment to be suffered, and some temporal pain remane at to be discharged in this world, after remission of sin, but for the next after this life (so feared they be of purgatory) they will have none at all. Melanch. Thother sect masters fearing what might follow on that grant, in no case will confess, that there is any pain due for sin, in this world or the next, after the fault be once remitted. For Caluine captain of this latter band, Calvinus. saw well, that if any debt or recompense remain to be discharged by the offender after his reconcilement, it must needs ●ise by proportion, weight, continuance, number, and quantity of the faults committed before. Whereby it must of necessity be induced, that because every man can not have time, either for the hugeness of his sins past, or his late repentance, or his careless negligence, to repay all in his life, that there is all, or some part answerable in the next world to come. And therefore boldly and impudently, as in case of this necessity, he adventureth to deny with shame, that any of all these painful miseries be as punishments for the sins of the sufferers: but certain fatherly checks, exercises of patience and virtue, rather than afflictions enjoined for sins. Which vain shift hath no bearing by reason, or text of Scripture: but only is upholden by the exercised audacity of the author. CAP. II 1 IF M. Allens titles of his chapters were as sufficient reasons, as they be bold affirmations, there were no man able to stand against him. But I can well compare them to the arguments of those vain fables that were wont to be printed in english of Bevis of Hampton, Guy of Warwick, & such like, where the arguments show how such a Knight overcame such a Giant, how such a sorcerer wrought such a miracle, which are told as confidently as though they were true, and yet there is no man of mean wit so ignorant, but he knoweth them to be feigned fantasies. Even so with M. Allen, to affirm is to prove, to deny is to confute, briefly in his titles, and at large in his chapters. But if he would as he pretendeth, have removed all those reasons, that we bring against his false conclusion, or any of them all, he must have proved, that Christ hath not satisfied the justice of God perfectly by his death and suffering, that God doth not freely forgive us our sins, that he is still an angry judge against them that put their trust in him. He must have proved against Ezechiel, that what time so ever a man doth truly repent, the Lord doth not put all his sins out of his remembrance, against David, that he hath not removed our sins from us as far as the East is from the West. Against S. john, that if any man sin after Baptism, jesus Christ is not our advocate with the father, and propitiation for our sins. If he could say any thing against these reasons & authorities, with an hundred more of the same sort, he were worthy to be heard. But because that is to hard a matter for him to take in hand, without all shame or show of truth most impudently, he feigneth a contrariety between Melanthon and Caluine, but not once noting by one letter where the same is to be found in any of their works, jest their manifest words out of the same places being brought against him, should reprove his shameless lying. Melancthon he saith, acknowledgeth some temporal pain after remission of sins, to be discharged in this life, but not in the life to come. Caluin will have none at all. O brazen face and iron forehead: doth Caluine deny thafflictions of this life? or Melancthon affirm that they are suffered for satisfaction of our sins. Doth Melancthon deny the passion of Christ to be a perfect answering of the justice of God? or Caluine affirm, thereby to be taken away the merciful correction of God? Would God that all that profess the religion of Christ agreed in all points as truly, as they do in this. But admit that M. Melancthon or any man beside, should grant, that the sufferings of the godly in this life, are some part of satisfying unto the justice of God, what were purgatory promoted thereby? Forsooth then of necessity it must be induced, that some part of these sufferings are answerable in the next world to come, what necessity call you this? even such as he suffereth, which being bound hand and foot with a straw, can not steer to help himself. But let us see this adamantine chain of Master Allens necessity. If any punishment remain, it must needs rise by proportion, weight, continuance, number and quantity, which if it be not all discharged in this life, than it is to be answered in the life to come. By proportion Master Allen? What proportion? Arithmetical or Geometrical? If it be by arithmetical proportion, than so many thousands of sins, whereof every one deserveth one death, must be punished by so many thousand deaths. If by geometrical proportion, than so many offences committed against that infinite majesty, can not be answered, but by infinite and eternal punishment, and which way so ever you take it, by weight, number, time or measure, it is evident, that while you seek for purgatory, you have found out hell. For otherwise saith the spirit of God, in the person of the faithful, He hath not dealt with us according to our sins, neither rewarded us after our iniquities, Psal. 103. But as heaven is above the earth, so great is his mercy, as a father hath compassion on his children, so hath the Lord compassion on them that fear him. This is an other manner of proportion M. Allen, than you Papists can skill of, which think such a necessity to be of this conclusion, that if any sins be punished in this life, they must be punished after this life also. For if nothing but justice be sought against sins, then followeth nothing but eternal damnation, if mercy may moderate the matter, what necessity is in this consequence? some sins are sometime punished in this life, ergo in the life to come. Thus I have reasoned, supposing that any man had granted, that the justice of God must be satisfied with our sufferings in this life: for I myself had rather see the Pope at the devil, than I would affirm the sufferings of Christ to be unsufficient to answer perfectly the justice of God. But behold christian reader the blasphemy of these popish serpents, first they will seem in words thoroughly to acknowledge the benefit of Christ's passion, jest that every man that heareth them speak, should spit at them. When they have thus obtained audience, than they will gather in them selves, & begin in some part to diminish the perfection thereof, & so proceed until they have in deed, though not in words clean excluded Christ and all his merits, whereof thou hast a plain example in this hypocrite, who in the beginning of his first chapter, confesseth liberally the effect of Christ's death▪ afterward restraineth the force thereof, to sins committed before baptism, then bringeth in punishment, for answering the justice of God in this life, afterward extendeth the same unto the life to come, & last of all, esteemeth the punishment by proportion, weight, continuance, number & quantity of the faults committed: which of necessity thrusteth back again the sins into eternal torments. And what then becometh of the propitiation for our sins purchased unto us by the blood of the son of God? 2 S. Paul in plain words writeth: Ad Rom. 6. Vide Augu. super illud psal. 50. in peccatis cōc●pit me matter m●a. Corpus mortuum est propter peccatum, & stipendium peccati mors est. The body is dead because of sin, and death is the reward of sin. And so of David: because thou hast slain Urias, Non recedet gladius de domo tua, saith the Scripture: The sword shall not departed thy house. And again, because thou hast made the enemies blaspheme my name, thy child shall die. And of the people of Israel: Visitabo & hoc peccatum eorum. I will visit this sin of theirs also. Yet in this light of Scripture, whereas the punishment is named, so it is expressly mentioned that sin is the proper cause thereof, the adversary seeketh a blind mist, to dase the simplicity of the reader, and to maintain error. It helpeth our cause exceeding much, In Psal. 50. that the very show of an argument, drives them to such unseemly shifts. S. Augustine's words shall for me sufficiently refute this error, Veritatem dilexisti, impunita peccata eorum etiam quibus ignoscis, non reliquisti. (He speaketh to God in the Prophet's person). Thou loves righteousness, & hast not left unpunished, not not the sins of them whom thou lovest. August. lib. 2. de peccato merchant cap. 33. Notwithstanding, this is very true: that all these afflictions though they come of sin, a●d for the reward of man's offences, yet God of mercy turneth them to the exercise of virtue, and benefit of such as shallbe saved. But it is one thing to dispute of what cause they come, and an other to reason of the wisdom of God in the use of the same. Who, as the said Augustine witnesseth, is so mighty in his provident governance, that he is able to turn, even the very sins themselves, to the benefit of such as by grace and mercy shallbe raised up to salvation. And much more is he ready to frame the punishment which he himself of justice worketh for correction of sinners, to the salvation of the elect. 2 This peace should prove that the fatherly rod of God's mercy, is a sword of his justice to punish those sins that are remitted. But what manner of proves bringeth he. S. Paul (he saith) in plain words writeth, the body is dead because of sin, and death is the reward of sin. In deed S. Paul writeth so, but is the mercy of God turned therefore into justice, or his rod into a sword? or he from a merciful father into an angry judge? to omit how unfitly he joineth these 2. places together, whose sense is so far differing, for in the former saying: Rom. 8. he speaketh of the relics of sin, that are not altogether abolished in them that are regenerate: in the latter Rom. 6. he showeth that they which serve sin, deserve eternal damnation: what is this to the proof of his conclusion? but his purpose was only to make some show of variety of places: for by and by he returneth to the places alleged, and answered before, of David, and of the people of Israel, whereunto he adjoineth the saying of Augustine, that God leaveth not the sins of them unpunished, whom he hath pardoned. One answer serveth all, if there were ten times as much of this sort. That God punisheth not to satisfy his justice, but to show his mercy toward his children, to bring them to repentance, to humble them, to make them beware of the like sins, to admonish others by their example, but in no wise that they should make a mends by due punishment, for that which by transgression was committed, which answer howsoever he would seem to elevate by words, yet he bringeth no matter against it, but even the places by himself alleged in the chapter before, which either all or almost all, do plainly confirm it, as is before noted, and none of them all confute it. 3 But now the other sort which be more curteise, The confutation of the second opinion. and confess that in this world the just may suffer of reason for his sins already remitted, but not in the next life, as their doctrine is very untrue, so it giveth great licence and liberty to evil liuer●, and is the very mother of presumption. For if man were sure to be discharged at his departure hence of all pain for his sins, than certes were it madness, to travel in this life further for his offences, than he must of necessity. Yea more, it maketh the case of grievous sinners till the hour of their death (so that they then at last repent) much better, then of small offenders converted long before. For these must be punished in their life, the other can not be punished (as these suppose) after their death. What a vain absurdity is this, that the prophet offending once or twice in all his time, should suffer so heavy judgement: and the party which abideth in wickedness till the end of his life, when sin rather leaveth him, than he sin, must because of his late conversion, without pain be carried at ease to heaven? This is not doubtless seemly to God's justice and ordinance, whose ways be truth and uprightness. Homil. 11. in Leuit. Est apud judicem justum poenae moderatio, non solum pro qualitate, sed etiam pro quantitate. To a just judge there must be consideration had of punishment, both for the quality & quantity (so saith Origine.) And the holy Scripture thus. Quantum glorificavit se, & in delitijs fuit: tantum date illi tormentum & luctum. Look how high she exalted herself, and how delicately she lived: and give her so much woe and torment again. It is spoken as of Babylon in the revelations of Saint john. Cap. 16. And because this toucheth our matter, and the very point thereof: I will stand with the adversary the longer. Here than I ask him, why God taketh punishment in this world, for sin already remitted? His answer must needs be, for the revenge and hatred of sin, and satisfying of justice. Now then doth God practise judgement and justice no where but in this world? Or if it be not here answered, because of lack of space, or late reconciliation of the offender, shall our lord of necessity be forced to remit the debt, and release his sentence of justice for lack of means to punish in an other world? Not not, God's hand is not abbridged by the terms of this life. Late repentance can be a benefit to no man: God forbidden it should. Especially seeing punishment and judgement for sin (as many learned do suppose, and as reason with scripture beareth) properly appertaineth not to this world, but by a special grace, and singular benefit, which God of pity granteth to such as he loveth, that they may here prevent his anger: which else in the next life should be found more grievous, where properly is the reward of sin, and judgement kept ordinarily for the same. As it is plain mercy & grace, when man may take punishment of himself (as S. Paul sayeth) and be his own corrector, 1. Cor. 11. to avoid the judgement of God. And thereof the next life is termed commonly dies Domini: where there is no place for our working, but sufferance alone: where the account of man's life must be straightly required, and the sins even of the just, not otherwise amended, sharply visited. Therefore if Melanthon grant that the righteous and reconciled persons, Euseb. Emis. homil. de di versis viti. may justly bear the scourge of God, for satisfying for their sins before pardoned, in this world, where, though punishment be exercised for wickedness properly, yet at the lest not so ordinarily as in the next, where God hath laid up the great store of reward, as well for the good as the bad: he must needs by force of reason acknowledge, that the world to come is no less (if it be not more) appointed of our Lord for just judging of our faults forgiven, than the time of this present life, whereas many an evil liver escapeth all punishment so diverse of great virtue suffer full grievous torments. Excellently well said S. Augustine: Multa mala hic videntur ignosci, Ench. ca 6. & nullis supplicijs vindicari: sed eorum poenae reseruantur in posterum &c: much evil may seem here to be pardoned, and without all punishment released: but the pain for such things is reserved till the world to come. 3 He ascribeth more courtesy to the other sort whose opinion is of his own framing, but yet they please him not altogether, because their doctrine giveth licence to evil livers. For if a man were sure to be discharged at his death for all pain for his sin, than it were madness to travail further for his offences in this life, than he must needs. M. Allen speaketh here according to his own affection, & the sense of all Papists, which will take no pains to please God, but only for their profit: they will not bestow one half penny for the love of God, nor suffer a fillippe for the glory of God, but for the satisfaction of their sins, and increase of their merits. And therefore that which is the chief cause, that doth and aught to move, and the principal end for which all godly men are moved to seek to please God by good works, namely the love of God, and the glory of God, the Papists think to prevail with no man, because they are void of it themselves. But may not a man now justly enforce, that the opinion of purgatory & satisfactions of sins after this life, is the very doctrine of licentiousness, to maintain wicked men in their presumptuousness? For what haste will they make to amendment & newness of life, when they have hope of release after their death? The other absurdity riseth of devilish envy, that God should be more liberal to them that repent, at the hour of death, then to them that were but small offenders, converted long before. And therefore (M. Allen) I will answer you, as the householder answered those murmurers, which grudged that they which wrought but an hour were made equal in reward with those, that had borne the burden & heat of the day. Is thy eye evil, because God is good? is it not lawful for him to do what he will with his own? Matth. 20. But this is that which always deceiveth the papists, because they measure the reward by justice and not by mercy. I think M. Allen is angry with Christ, that he did not sand the penitent thief into purgatory, but even that day promised to be with him in paradise. For Origen is alleged to prove, that a just judge must have consideration of punishment, both for quality and quantity. He never thinketh of Ch●ist all this while, who was stricken for our sins and wounded for our iniquities, in whose punishment God had regard of such quality and quantity as his justice required. Es. 53. For the chastisement of our peace was laid upon him. but we say with the prophet: Lord if thou look straightly to our sins, who were able to abide it, but with thee there is mercy & therefore thou shalt be feared. Psa. 130. But for a stronger proof, there is alleged a place out of Apoc. 18. look how high Babylon did exalt herself, & how delicately she lived, give her so much woe & torment again. Now I promise' you, I will say M. Allen is a cunning Logician, if he can draw a good argument out of this place to prove that God punisheth his children to satisfy his justice. The whorish church of Rome is justly condemned to eternal torments, for her pride & voluptuousness, there o'er God's children are punished to answer the justice of God. The people of God are commanded to reward Babylon according to her wickedness, and to spare her no more than she s●ared them in her tyranny. What pertaineth this to the afflictions of God's Saints? But because this matter toucheth the point, he will tarry longer with his adversary, & demand why God taketh punishment in this world for sin already remitted. And then he will compel him to answer for satisfying of his justice, which if it be not performed in this life, it must be in the life to come. This is a fine kind of reasoning, M. Allen, that you will enforce your adversary both to answer you, & also to answer what you list, & then you are good enough for him. Is this the logic of Lovayne? Nay you have a finer reason than this, punishment & judgement for sin properly appertaineth not to this world, but to the next life. Then would I grossly infer, therefore the temporal pains that the godly suffer in this world, be not properly punishments for sin. But it is of mercy and grace that they suffer in this life, that I grant, but not to satisfy for their sins. Of which matter you do untruly call saint Paul to witness. 1. Cor. 11. as when he is heard to speak himself, it will appear manifestly: If we would judge ourselves (saith he) we should not be judged, but when we are judged, we are chastised of the Lord, because we should not be condemned with the world. Here is chastisement to amendment, or obstinacy to condemnation, but never a word sounding toward purgatory, here is a manifest difference, between the judgement which God exerciseth towards his children, which is chastisement to avoid damnation, & that judgement by the which the impenitent world is condemned. But in the next life (you say) there is no place for our working but sufferance alone, etc. what then shall other men's works avail, when our own will not serve? and yet it is a matter not so fully agreed upon among you papists, whether a man may merit in purgatory. But to take your own affirmation and not to charge you with dissension of other men (because you descent so much from yourself) who so weigheth the ground of your first book, must needs confess that it overturneth your second book, & if the matter of your second book be true, then is the ground of your first book false. For the ground of purgatory you would make the justice of God, which requireth punishment for sins committed in this life: but how can that stand? if God accept the work of other men to release them, that should suffer by his justice: if these works will answer the matter, them there is no such necessity of purgatory to satisfy his justice. So that one of your books is a pretty confutation of the other. As for the saying of Augustine helpeth you nothing at all, only he showeth that God punisheth not all sins in this world, because many are reserved to eternal torments. But how uncertain his judgement was concerning purgatory in that Enchiridion ad Laurentium, he himself most plainly declareth. Tale aliquid etiam post hanc vitam fieri incredibile non est: & utrum ita sit quaeri potest. It is not incredible, that such a thing may be after this life, and whether it be so or no it may be doubted, and either it may be found, or else it may be hid, that some faithful should pass through a certain purgatory fire, etc. cap. 69. By which words it appeareth that Satan was but then laying his foundations of purgatory, & had not yet finished this work by a great deal, and that this was not so grave a doctrine, nor so constant a faith of the fathers, as M. Allen boasteth of in the former cap. Fol. 25. 4 But let us step a foot further, and yet so much nearer the matter: and note well whether we may find any case, where the payment for sins remitted, passeth the bonds of this life, and so required in the next, that by plain dealing and orderly proceeding, Mark well that God punisheth in the next life, the sins of the just. we may the better instruct the simple, confounded the adversary and make truth stand upon itself. Consider then with me that our first father pardoned of his sin, as I proved before, was punished for the same, & with him all the just of those days, not only in the time of this present mortal life, but many hundredth years after their departure. For whose delivery, the Catholic church holdeth and our Crede teacheth also, that our Master Christ descended down into hell. And that no man here be deceived, he must understand, that it was no small punishment to be banished so many worlds together from the land of the living, and to lack the joyful fruition of heavens bliss: August. Enchi. cap. 112. which of itself, but that it was not eternal, had been more than all temporal pains that may be suffered. And this to be one of those miseries which our first father's disobedience wrought, and so to be pain for sin, I think every wise man will confess. Yea it was the greatest dominion of sin that could be for the overthrow of which, Christ himself vouchsafed to enter into the land of darkness. It is called of the Prophet, lacus sine aqua: a lake without water: And of the Apostle, Zach. 9 1. Pet. 3. Carcer, a prison. Where the fathers be also named, vincti tui, thine that were bound. Whereby we must understand that Christ had a flock imprisoned and bound, for the debt of sin in an other world. But that we may make invincible proof, that this their captivity was a just enjoined plague and penalty for sin, we must report what we find in ancient Irenaeus of this matter. And he affirmeth that Adam was judged and condemned for his wilful fall, till Christ's coming, in these words. Lib. 3. ca 33. Necesse fuit Dominum ad perditam ovem venientem & tandem despositionis recapitulationem facientem, & suum plasma requirentem, illum ipsum hominem saluare, qui factus fuerat secundum imaginem & similitudinem eius, id est Adam: implentem tempora eius condemnationis, quae facta fuerat propter inobedientiam. And strait after. Solutus est condemnationis vinculis, qui captiuus ductus fuerat homo, thus I english it: It was necessary that our Lord coming to the lost sheep, & making a recapitulation of his appointed ordinance, and view of his own handeworke, should also save the same man which was formed after his own image and likeness: I mean Adam, then fulfilling the time of that condemnation which was for his disobedience appointed, and so the man led into captivity was released of the bonds of his condemnation. Eusebius Emissenus yet more expressly helpeth our cause, Homil. 1. de festo Pasch. as followeth. Confestim igitur aeterna nox inferorum, Christo descendente, resplenduit: siluit stridor ille lugentium, & Cathenarum disrupta ceciderunt vincula damnatorum Out of hand at Christ's coming into hell, that eternal darkness shined bright: the gnashing of the mourners ceased, and the bursten bands of condemned persons, fell from them. Here lo many one, by the judgement of this holy writer, were loused from much misery by Christ's descending down. Where, to our purpose we must especially be advertised, that all the just in those inferior parts were not in like felicity with our father Abraham, or other of such perfect holiness: (although he also suffered the common lack, in long looking for translation to joy) for some there were of meaner virtue, & yet in the favour of God, which suffered personal pain for purging & recompense of their sins committed in this life: Some were released of pain, at Christ's descen. of whom this Author seemeth to mean. And as S. Augustine supposeth, the scripture must needs import such a like thing: undoubtedly teaching that Christ was not only in the place of rest, where Abraham and other in his harbour were, but also in places of torment, which could not touch his holy person: Act. 2. Quem Deus suscitavit solutis dolo●ibus inferni: Whom God raised up again after he had loosed hell pains. Thus saith this holy Author. Quia evidentia testimonia & infernum commemorant & dolores, nulla causa occurrit, Epist. 99 cur illò credatur venisse salvator, nisi ut ab eius doloribus saluos faceret: sed utrum omnes quos in eyes invenit, an quosdam quos illo beneficio dignos iudicavit, adhuc requiro: fuisse tamen eum apud inferos, & in eorum doloribus constitutis hoc beneficium praestitisse non dubito: Because (saith he) evident testimonies make mention both of Hell and pains, I see not why we should believe that our Saviour came thither, but to discharge some of the pains thereof: marry whether he loosed all, or sum whom he thought worthy of that benefit, that would I learn. For I am out of doubt he was in hell, and bestowed that gracious benefit upon some that were in pains. Thus far spoke Augustine. Let no man here take occasion to think that this father meant of any release of the damned in the inferiors hell: for that error he ever detested, & writeth earnestly against Origine for the same. De fide & operibus cap 16. Cap. 33. Then it must needs be, that he spoke of some which were in pain and torment, and yet worthy to receive mercy. (so he termeth their estate both here, and in the xij. Book of the literal exposition on the Genesis, where he hath the same words with more large proof of the conclusion) which neither agreeth with the state of Abraham's rest, nor yet with the forsaken souls. And the name of hell is now commonly taken for any one of the inferior parts, where God practiseth judgement for sin everlastingly or temporally: though (as Augustine saith) it can not be found in plain scripture, that Abraham's happy resting place should be termed Hell, or Infernun. But I need not seek further in the deep mystery of Christ's affairs in the inferior parts. For as I am not ashamed to be ignorant upon whom he bestowed the grace of delivery, so with Augustine, or rather with God's Church, I dare believe, that he loosed some, upon whom he exercised judgement before. And further may boldly avouch, that as there were certain at his coming down, not unworthy after long pains tolerated to be released in his presence, so there be yet some, which by mercy and means of God's Church be released daily. Not of that sort which died out of God's favour: Quibus clausa est ianua misericordiae, & omnis spes interclusa salutis: Bernard se de s. Nicolao. Upon whom the door of mercy, and the hope of health be closed and shut up for ever, but of the just departed in faith and piety, and yet not fully purged of all corruption of iniquity. 4 This man hath hitherto raked in purgatory, now he will step a foot further into hell, and all to find a case where sins remitted are punished after this life, and then he will return again into purgatory. For this purpose we must consider with him, that Adam and all the just of those days, were punished for their sins forgiven, not only in this life, but many hundredth years after their departure. For whose delivery the Catholic Church (he saith) holdeth & our creed teacheth, that Christ descended into hell. First mark how he agreeth with himself, & after how he cavilleth with the holy Scripture of God. Here he saith that Abraham and all the just were punished in hell, afterward in the next leaf, he saith that all the just in those inferior parts were not in like felicity with our father Abraham, or other of such perfect holiness, and in the next leaf after that, he affirmeth out of Augustine, that Abraham's happy resting place can not be found in Scripture, to be termed hell. But that the fathers of the old law before Christ, were not in hell, although they were not, nor yet are in perfect blessedness, God providing a better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Heb. 11. It is to be proved with manifest arguments and authorities out of holy Scriptures. For seeing they all believed in Christ, they had everlasting life, and entered not into condemnation, but passed from death to life. joan 5. And to what end was Christ called the lamb, that was slain from the beginning of the world, but that the benefit of his passion, extendeth unto the godly of all ages alike? Esay speaking of thè righteous that are departed out of this life, saith that there is peace, and that they shall rest in their beds, Esay 57 like as he affirmeth that Tophoth, which is Gehinnom or hell, is prepared of old for the wicked, Es. 30. So that felicity and rest was the portion of the godly fathers of the old time after their death: and hell was prepared but for the wicked and ungodly. The same doth our Saviour Christ teach in the history of Lazarus and the rich man. Luke 16. where the soul of Lazarus was carried by Angels not down to hell, but up into Abraham's bosom, from which hell is manifestly divided, when it is said that the rich man being in hell in torments, lifted up his eyes and saw Lazarus a far of: which words do plainly confute, that drowsy dream of the Papists concerning limbus patrum, which they say is but an edge and border of hell. But Christ maketh hell one place, and Abraham's bosom an other, and not that only, but the one far from the other, yea a great distance between the one and the other, therefore no edge nor border of hell, but a place of comfort, an high place: for the rich man looketh up, and seeth a far of Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham, who was a true child of Abraham by faith, for faith maketh children unto Abraham. Rom. 4. And even as faith was imputed to Abraham, so is it to all that be his children by faith as well as it was to Abraham, if righteousness belongeth to Abraham's children, the reward of righteousness also pertaineth unto them, therefore Abraham's bosom was open to receive all the children of Abraham, even as the bosom of God was ready to receive Abraham, because he was his son through faith. And now to confute your vain reasons which either be manifest wrestinges of the holy Scripture, or else are builded upon the authority of mortal men. First you allege that the place into which Christ descended, was called a lake without water, in which the godly fathers were. Zachary 9 but this is so evident an abusing of the word of God, that he which doth only read that verse of Zachary in the original tongue, must needs confess, that those words have an other sense, for God there continueth his speaking to jerusalem, or the daughter of Zion: saying, he hath delivered her prisoners by the blood of her covenant, from the lake without water, that is from miserable and desperate captivity, where appeared no comfort. For the pronoun thou, is of the feminine gender, wherefore it is most clear that this is not spoken of Christ but of the Church of Christ. As for the common translation, which turneth the feminine gender into the masculine, & the first person into the second with manifest depravation of the sense, is not to be admitted in this case. Now that prison which you bring out of 1. Pet. 3. is the prison of the damned souls, into which S. Peter doth not say that Christ descended, but that he came in the days of No by his spirit, and preached to those that were then disobedient, and therefore are their spirits now in perpetual prison and torment. And this is the true and natural sense of S. Peter's words, which by means of that predicate error, rather than of any great obscurity in them, hath been diversly wrested by expositors. The words of Irenaeus may be well understood of Christ's coming down from heaven to save mankind, which deserved just condemnation for sin, rather than of his descending into hell, and the name of Adam seemeth to be taken in these words, rather for a noun common then for a proper name. He hath words towards the latter end of the fift book that sound more like to this matter, where he saith: Cum enim Dominus in medio umbrae mortis abierit, ubi animae mortuorum erant, post deinde corporaliter resurrexit, & post resurrectionem assumptus est, manifestum est, quia & discipulorum eius, propte● quos & haec operatus est Dominus, animae abibunt in invisibilem locum, definitum eyes à Deo, & ibi usque ad resurrectionem commorabuntur. Seeing the Lord went in the midst of the shadow of death, where the souls of the dead were, and afterward arose corporally, and then was taken up: it is manifest, that the souls of his disciples for whom the Lord wrought these things, shall go into an invisible place, appointed for them by God, and there shall tarry until the resurrection. Nevertheless out of these words can nothing be necessarily enforced, but that the soul of Christ, when he was dead, was in the place of the godly that were dead before him, which no man denieth. If you urge that he was in the midst of the shadow of death, I answer, that is a phrase of the Scripture, signifying that he was verily dead, and that death had him in possession, after which manner of speech S. Peter saith, that God raised him again, losing the sorrows of death, and you yourself count it a blasphemy to say, that he suffered any torments in hell after his death, and Irenaeus himself affirmeth, that it was such a place as all his disciples shall rest in until the time of the general resurrection, which plainly overthroweth your fantasy. Eusebius Emissenus helpeth you as little as Irenaeus, for he speaketh rhetorically, of the glorious victory that Christ obtained against hell, & the power of darkness, by his death and passion, and descending into hell, whose words if you would expound grammatically, you will make a mad sense of them, & he shallbe smally beholding unto you. But it is plain enough, except it be to him that will seek confirmation of errors, out of that which is truly spoken, that he meaneth that the effect and power of Christ's death, mightily vanquished the power of hell & eternal damnation, not which it had actually over the godly, but which by the justice of God, it should have had, if his sacrifice had not purchased mercy. And therefore he saith, Aeterna nox the everlasting night, which adjective is referred also to the gnashing & chains of the damned. For it was eternal not temporal damnation, from which they were delivered by Christ's death. And therefore that fond shift, which M. Allen imagineth, which he saith may seem like to be the author's meaning, is not worth a straw, as being enforced and brought to the words by him, not expressed in them, by Eusebius. But when these will not help, the supposal of S. Augustine is set down, which because it is but the authority of a man, & him not constant with himself always, it is not of sufficient weight, to bear down the testimony alleged out of God's word. The same man contra Felicianum ad Optatum cap. 15. writeth these words. Si igitur mortuo corpore, ad paeradisum anima mox vocatur, quenquam ne adhuc tam impium credimus, qui dicere audeat, quoniam anima salvatoris nostri, triduo illo corporeae mortis apud inferos custodiae mancipitur. If therefore the body being dead, the soul is immediately called to paradise, believe we yet that there is any man so ungodly, that he dare say, that our saviours soul, in that 3. days of his bodily death, was committed to prison in hell, etc. In these words, he seemeth utterly to deny, that he came in that prison of hell. You will say he denieth that he tarried there so long, but not that he came not there at all. But then mark this reason, if the souls of good men immediately are called to paradise, much more was Christ's soul immediately received into paradise, who committed the same into his father's hands. 5 Let the enemies of God's truth come now, and deny if they can for shame, that God's justice for sins remitted, reacheth not sometimes to the places of punishment in the next life: let them with purgatory raze up the father's resting place so plainly set forth by scripture, believed of the whole Church, and always taught by the holy fathers. Yea let them that will have no place for sinners, find with blasphemy, hell like torments for Gods own Son, with the damned spirits. My heart surely will scarce serve me to report it, and yet cursed Caluine was not afeard to writ it: and with arrogant vaunts against the blessed fathers, to avouch the same. That miserable forsaken man saw, that the only grant of the old father's punishment by the lack of everlasting joy, might of force drive him to acknowledge, that God sometimes exerciseth his justice upon those which he loveth, in the next life: and so consequently that Purgatory pains might be inferred thereupon, therefore he fell headelong to this horrible blasphemy, calvin's blasphemy upon the article of Christ's descension. that Christ went not to lose any from the pains of the next life: but to be punished in hell with the deadly damned himself, for to amend the lack of his passion upon the Crosse. O our cursed time, O corrupt conditions: this beast writeth thus against our blessed saviours death, and against the sufficiency of the abundant price of our redemption: and yet he liveth in man's memory, yea his books be greedily red, red? Nay by such as would be counted the chief of the clergy, and bear Bishops names, they are commanded to be red: The heretics privily set forth by books that which they dare not openly preach. and the very book wherein this & all other detestable doctrine is uttered, especially by their authority commended to the simple curates study: that they might there learn closely in devilish books, such wicked heresies as the preachers themselves dare not yet in the light of the world utter nor maintain. But other be not so far fallen, therefore they must of reason confess, that God by just correction, hath before Christ's coming visited in the next world many hundred years together, the sins of those whom he dearly loved. Although not only in all that time, the souls of the holy patriarchs felt the lack of the abundant fruition of the Majesty, but also for sin they both then in rest, Excepting some that by peculiar prerogative have already received their bodies. and now in unspeakable felicity, want till this day the increase of joy and bless, that by the receiving of their bodies yet lying in dust, they are undoubtedly sure of. Therefore it is over much presumption to limit the majesty of God in the government of his own creatures, to the borders of our short life, and almost it toucheth his very providence with injury, to say that he letteth him scape without punishment for his sins, that repented not till the hour of death: as for whom he hath no scourge in the next life, as he had here, if death had not prevented his purpose. These childish cogitations can not stand with the righteousness of his will, that for the first sin committed, doth not only punish many everlastingly of the forsaken sort, but also for the same, punisheth both his best beloved in earth, and for a time abateth the felicity of the blessed Saints in heaven. But I will not stray after these men. My matter is so fruitful that I may not rove. And though the sects of these days have so infected every branch of our christian faith, that a man can not well overpass them what so ever he taketh in hand, yet I will not meddle with them no further, then shall concern the quick of our cause, and the necessary light of our matter. 5 Now this lusty gallant as though he had fully repaired and fortified the old ruinous and battered towers of limbus patrum, with canvas painted walls, he standeth upon his bulwark of brown paper, and crieth defiance to all his enemies, and especially he uttereth his spite against Caluine, as a notorious enemy of his cause & quarrel. Whom because he is to young to encounter withal, by any wit, learning, reason, or truth, he spiteth out against him, most impudent slanders, railings and lies, in which faculty, he hath strived so much to show himself eloquent, that not satisfying himself with the voice of a man, he hath borrowed the tongue of the Devil himself, or at the lest wise, for fear he should not lie thoroughly given over his shameless tongue to be wagged by the father of lies. For what man with any show of human reason would accuse Caluine to deny the sufficiency of the redemption of Christ, to affirm that Christ went down into hell after his death to be punished there with the damned himself, for to amend the lack of his passion upon the cross? whose doctrine God himself, the Angels, and all the world doth know and testify, to be directly contrary to these slanders. For who ever more constantly affirmed, or more substantially proved the sufficiency of our redemption, by Christ's death? what ass so unlearned, if he can but construe calvin's latin, in his catechism, institutions, or any part of his works, where he entreateth of that article of Christ's descense in to hell, may not plainly see, that he utterly denieth his descending into hell, after his life, affirming the same to be understood of the wrath of God, which he sustained for our sins before his death, at that time especially when he that was God, complained that he was forsaken of God, which mystery if M. Allen understand not, it is no marvel, seeing he abridgeth so much the benefit of Christ's redemption, as all papists do always, and he specially in this his defence of purgatory, and yet he is not ashamed to say of Caluine: this beast writeth against our blessed saviours death. If I did not moderate somewhat my corrupt affections, I could requited him the like reproaches, but this much I must needs say. Is Caluine a beast for speaking the truth to the glory of Christ's redemption, & Allen an honest man, for slandering him to the defacing of God's honour? But because he would not be thought to have spewed out all his poison against Caluine, he goulpeth up an other bowlefull of railing and slandering against our Bishops, who have not only suffered, but also commended Caluins books to be read, and studied of the simple curates, affirming that they do privily set forth by books, that which they dare not openly preach. If every man that can be a witness, that M. Allen lieth in this matter, should pull one hear from his head or beard, they would leave him never an hear of an honest man behind them. But that he may return to his gentle adversaries, with whom is less dangerous dealing, there be some (he saith) that grant the punishment of the fathers, after their death, of whose liberal concession, he doubteth not but to patch up his Purgatory. In which practice he is not unlike a fond fellow, of whom I have heard men jest in Cambridge, who when he was, non plus, as they term it, in disputation, and all his argument spent, that he had provided: Now (saith he) will I dispute of your concesses and grants. So M. Allen for every matter, when his own reasons fail, hath the concessions of his adversaries which if they will not frankly make, he will forcibly compel them to say what he will have them. Last of all he saith, it is presumption, & such as toucheth the very providence of God, with injury, to say, that he letteth any sinner scape unpunished, which repented not until the hour of death, as for whom he hath no scourge in the next life as he had here, if death had not prevented his purpose. But these he calleth childish cogitations, but he might well have termed them devilish imaginations, which will control the wisdom and mercy of God under his blind reason and corrupt affections and not suffer God to show mercy upon whom he will show mercy. Rom. 9 without his blasphemous and envious murmuring. His promise made so pleasantly, not to digress from his faultless matter, how perfectly he performeth, we shall see afterward. That the practice of Christ's Church, in the court of binding and losing man's sins, doth lively set forth the order of God's justice in the next life, and prove Purgatory. CAP. III 1this being then proved, that God himself hath often visited the sins of such as were very dear unto him, let us now diligently behold the grave authority of losing and binding sins, and the court of man's conscience which Christ would have kept in earth by the Apostles and Pastors of our souls: where we need not doubt but to find the very resemblance of God's disposition and ordinance, in punishing or pardoning offences. For the honour and pour of this ecclesiastical government, is by especial commission so ample, that it containeth not only the preaching of the Gospel and ministery of the Sacraments, Note. but that which is more near to the might and majesty of God, and only appertaineth to him by propriety of nature, the very exact judgement of all our secret sins, with losing and binding of the same. For as God the father gave all judgement to his only Son, joan. 5. so he at his departure hence, to the honour of his spouse and necessary giding of his people, did communicate the same in most ample manner (as S. Chrysostome saith) to the Apostles and priests for ever: that they practising in earth terrible judgement upon man's misdeeds, might fully represent unto us the very sentence of God in punishment of wickedness in the world to come. The princes of the earth have pour to bind too, Lib. de Sacer. 3. but no further than the body, but this other (saith he) reacheth to the soul itself, and practised here in the world beneath (which is a strange case) hath force and effect in heaven above. The power of all potentates, under the majesty of the blessed Trinity, in heaven and earth, is extreme baseness compared to this. By this grave authority therefore, the Pastors and Priests imitating God's justice, have exercised continually punishment, from the spring of Christian religion, down till these days, upon all sinners: perpetually enjoining for satisfying of God's wrath, penance and works of correction, either before they would absolve them, as the old usage was, or else after the release of their offences, which now of late for grave causes hath been more used. In which sentence of their judgement we plainly see, that as there was ever account made amongst all the faithful of pain due unto sin, though the very offence itself and the guiltiness (as you would say) thereof, were forgiven before: so we may gather that it was ever enjoined by the priests holy ministery, after the quality and quantity of the fault committed. Whereupon they charged some manner offenders with certain prayers only, other with large almose, diverse with long fasting, many with perilous peregrinations, some with suspending from the sacraments, and very grievous offenders, with curse and excommunication. Ex communication hath the image of God's justice in the world to come. Whereby thou mayest not only prove that there is pain to be suffered for thy sins, but also have a very image of that misery which in the next life may fall, not only to the damned for ever, but also to all other which neglected in this time of grace the fruits of penance, and works of satisfaction for the answer of their lives past. This great correction of excommunication and separation from the sacraments, S. Paul termeth the rod, Virgam. wherewith he often threatened offenders: yea and some times though it was with great sorrow (the punishment was so extreme) he mightily in God's stead occupied the same. As once against Himeneus and Alexander: 1. ad Timo. Cap. 1. 1. Cor. 5. and an other time towards a Corinthian, upon whom, being absent, he gave sentence of their delivery up to Satan: not to be vexed of him as job was for the increase of merit, In 1. ad Cor. cap. 5. (saith Chrysostome) but in their flesh marvelously to be tormented for payment for their grievous offences: and as the Apostle writeth of the Corinthian, that his soul might be false in the day of our Lord. CAP. III 1 BEcause this man would show himself mindful of his promise hereafter, he is even now wandered out of Purgatory into excommunication, which notwithstanding he counteth no digression at all, because it doth set forth the order of God's justice in the next life, and prove Purgatory, which were neither so nor so, but that he hath a special grace, to make all things serve his purpose, though they be never so far from it. Omnia ex omnibus, he can make what he list of every thing. We confess the power of excommunication given by Christ unto his Church, and the severity of the punishment thereof to be greater, than the swelling words of M. Allens eloquence can express: but where as he addeth, that it hath been the perpetual usage of God's church, for satisfying of God's wrath, to enjoin penance and works of correction, before they would absolve, which was the old custom, or else after the release of their offence which was the new fashion, he showeth himself ignorant of the right use and end of that authority, which our Saviour hath committed unto his Church. For the chief end of this discipline, is to bring the sinners to repentance, which if it may be obtained by admonition, the sword of excommunication must not be drawn out. As appeareth plainly by Christ's own words Matth. 18. If private admonition, where the offence is not public, may prevail to win our brother, there needeth no witness to be called. If two or three may serve to admonish: the matter need not to be referred to the Church's knowledge: and he that heareth the Church, so that by the admonition thereof he is brought to hearty repentance, is not to be cut of from the Church, nor to be delivered to Satan, for how should the Church refuse him, whom God receiveth: But if he obstinately contemn the gentle admonition of the Church, or as our Saviour saith, if he refuse to hear the Church, then let him be as an heathen or publican. For afterward if being excommunicated: he show hearty tokens of repentance, without any further satisfaction, he is to be received again, as appeareth most manifestly, in the receiving of that Corinthian which was excommunicated, of whose unfeigned repentance, when the Apostle had intelligence, he writeth again to the Corinthians of him saying. It is sufficient for that same man that he was rebuked of many, but now you aught to forgive him and comfort him, that he should not be swallowed up with over much heaviness. 2. Cor. 2. And as for the practice of the old and puerer Church, by enjoining of works of repentance, was, that they might not be deceived by conterfect repentance, in stead of true and earnest reformation, not to satisfy the wrath of God against sinners (which is not satisfied, but by the blood of Christ) but to satisfy and assure the Church (as much as man might judge) of the unfeigned and hearty repentance of the offender. For how so ever the old writers use the word of satisfaction, something unproperly, yet their clear affirmation of the only satisfaction of Christ's death, declareth what they understood, when they used that term in an other sense. But this is not to be omitted, that M. Allen confesseth the Papists, to have left the old usage of the Church, which was first to set satisfaction, and then to absolve, and now of late, to have taken up a contrary custom that is, first to absolve then to enjoin penance. This practice therefore lacketh antiquity, one of the chief pillars of Popery. But this he sayeth is for great causes, but what causes, he doth not express: it is sufficient that the Church can not err, though they do that which is contrary to the usage of the ancient Church, without ground of Scripture, and against the commandment of Christ. How hard Cyprian was to absolve them, that were excommunicate, before they had showed great fruits of repentance, and how careful, that the Church should not be deceived by them, that upon counterfected penance, required absolution, appeareth by many of his epistles, & in his Sermon De lapsis. But because we shall have a more proper place to speak of satisfaction in the next Chapter, we will now follow M. Allen in this matter of excommunication. 2 This punishment was ever by cutting of from the Christian society, and often joined with torment of body or sickness. And sometimes with death. As in the excommunication of Ananias and Zaphiras: Act. 5. Note. Which Christ's vicar S. Peter, to the great terror even of the faithful, gravely pronounced on them for retaining back certain Church goods, which by promise they had before dedicated unto God & the Apostles distribution. This kind of punishment of sins was ever counted so terrible, that we find it called of the old father's damnation: August. de Correp. & gra. cap. 15. as one that most resembles the pains of the world to come of all other. And if man could see with corporal eyes the misery of the party so condemned in God's church, his heart would braced: Ita Grego. Nis. orat de Castigatione. and it would move terror of further damnation even to the stubborn contemners of the Church's authority. The which censure of God's priests, though it was sometimes to the everlasting woe of such offenders as neglected the benefit of that present pain, yet commonly it was but chastisement and loving correction of our dear mother, for their delivery from greater grief in the life to come. 2 He saith that excommunication was oftentimes joined with torment of body, and sickness, and sometimes with death. Of torment and sickness he bringeth no proof, but of death in Ananias and Saphira. But where findeth he, that they were excommunicated? I find that they were punished with death for their hypocrisy and dissimulation, but there is no word, nor half word, of their excommunication, and whereas you say, it was for retaining back of certain Church goods, S. Peter saith, it was for: lying and tempting the holy Ghost: And those Church goods were not for vain ostentation of golden copes, chalices, or such like superstitious vanities, but for the necessary relief of the poor. Again, I know in what sense you call S. Peter Christ's vicar, well if the Pope be in the same office Peter was, why doth he not likewise punish those whom he taketh to be Church robbers, if he lack the power (as I am sure he lacketh not the will) then hath he not the authority Peter had. And if Peter did this as Christ's vicar, then is not he Christ's vicar, that can not do as Peter did. 3 And for this cause, Aug. Ench. cap. 65. as the example of all ages past may sufficiently prove, were certain times and ordinary terms of penance appointed, for just satisfaction for every offence: and by the holy Canons so limited, that no sin wittingly might be reserved to God's heavy revenge in the end of our short days. It were to long to report the rules and prescription of penance, Nicen. c. 12. Ancyr. c. 5. out of Nice Council or Ancyre: or out of S. Cyprian, for their punishment that fell to Idolatry in the time of Decius and Diocletianus: or out of Ambrose, the notable excommunication of Theodosius the Emperor. By all which and the like, in the histories of the Ecclesiastical affairs, he that can not see what pain is due unto sin, even after the remission thereof, I hold him both ignorant and malicious blind. 3 That certain times and ordinary terms were appointed, in which they that grievously offended, should show their repentance, the same was not for satisfaction for their sins, but for certain demonstration of their repentance, which thing appeareth even by the same canons of the Counsels which you allege, For when godly discipline began to decay, whereof Cyprian complaineth often in his epistles, men that notoriously offended would sometime, by threatening and terrors, sometime, by refusing the censure of that church, by whom they were condemned, sometime by flattering the constant Martyrs, and so deceiving them, that they would become suitors for them (at whose request the Church many times was entreated) would seek to thrust themselves again into the communion of the faithful, before they had showed sufficient tokens of sorrow, for so grievous faltes, of which enormities Cyprian much complaineth as one that was much troubled with them. as Lib. 1. Epist. 3. Lib. 3. Epist. 15. For remedy of which enormities, and for avoiding of all subtle practices, to restore discipline to the ancient severity, decrees were made by the ancient Counsels, in which certain times of trial were appointed, for offenders, to approve their repentance, with regard of the heinousness of their crimes: but yet with such moderation, that they might be received before the time appointed, if they showed sufficient fruits of repentance, as appeareth most plainly, in the 11. Canon of the Nicone Council, where it is said: Ab omnibus vero illud praecipuè obseruetur, ut animus corum & fructus poenitentiae attendatur, etc. Let this be chiefly considered of all (that are excommunicated) that there mind and fruits of repentance be considered, for they that with all fear, continual tears, and good works, show their conversion, not only by words but in deed and in truth. etc. With them the Bishop may deal more gently, whereas those that think it is sufficient only to enter into the Church, are charged in any wise to keep the ordinary time. etc. Wherefore he that gathereth that pains are due to sins after remission of them, by example of them that remitted no sins, but after sufficient pains suffered for them, or amends made for them, I hold him not only malicious blind, but beastly unreasonable. 4 And if any man yet doubt why, or to what end the Church of Christ thus grievously tormenteth her own children, by so many means of heavy correction, whom she might by good authority freely release of their sins, let him assuredly know, that she could not so satisfy God's justice always, by whom she holdeth her authority to edify and not to destroy: to bind as well as to lose. Although such dolour for offences committed, and so earnest zeal may she sometimes find in the offender, that her chief and principal pastors may by their sovereign authority, wholly discharge him of all pains to come. But else in the common case of Christian men, this penance is for no other cause enjoined, Ibidem. but to save them from the more grievous torment in the world following. In the which sense S. Augustine both speaketh himself, and proveth his meaning, by the Apostles words as followeth. Propterea de quibusdam temporalibus poenis, 1. Cor. 11. quae in hac vita peccantibus irrogantur eyes quorum peccata delentur, ne reseruentur in finem, ait Apostolus: si enim nosmetipsos iudicaremus, a domino non iudicaremur. Cum iudicamur autem a domino corripimur, ne cum hoc mundo d●mnemur. Therefore (saith he) it is of certain temporal afflictions which be laid upon their necks, that being sinners have their trespasses pardoned, jest they be called to an account for them at the latter end, that the Apostle meaneth by, when he saith: If we would judge ourselves, we should not then be judged of our Lord. And when we be judged of our Lord, then are we chastened that we be not damned with the world. This only careful kindness of our mother therefore, that never remitted sin that was notorious in any age, but after sharp punishment, or earnest charge with some proportional penance for the same, doth not only give us a loving warning to beware and prevent that heavy correction of the world to come, which S. Paul calleth the judgement of God, because it is a sentence of justice: but also in her own practice here in earth, of mercy, in pardoning: of justice in punishment: she giveth us a very clear example of both the same to be undoubtedly looked for at the hands of God himself, by whom in the kingdom of the Church, these both in his behalf be profitably practised. For if there were no respect of the dreadful day in the end of our life, nor any pain further due for sins remitted, in the next world, than were it cruel arrogancy in the ministers to charge men with penance, needless to the offender, and folly to the sufferer. But God forbidden any should be so malapert or misbelieving, as to miscredit the doings and doctrine of the Catholic Church, which by the authority she hath to bind sins, and the protection of the holy Ghost, hath used this rod of correction to the profit of so many, and hurt of none, ever sense our masters death and departure. 4 Mark here gentle reader, what an absolute power of remission of sins, this Papist doth ascribe to the Church, that she might (he saith) by good authority, freely release men of their sins, with out satisfying of God's justice, but that she will not, except in some case, where she findeth such dolour and zeal in the offender that her chief and principal Pastors, may by there sovereign authority, wholly discharge him of all pains to come. Mark here the sovereign authority of the Pope not subject, not not to the justice of God. For else how should the Pope's pardons stand, or Christ's merits be excluded? if the Pope had not power to do by his sovereign authority, that Christ could not do by his bitter passion, to discharge penitent sinners of all pains to come: you see therefore, that the Popish church, is not as a wife subject to Christ her spouse, to exercise on earth the authority of Christ in heaven, according to his will, but a presumptuous harlot, to claim sovereign authority in earth, whereunto he is bound, which is in heaven. For otherwise, though the old fathers, that were most earnest in maintaining the Church's authority, as Cyprian Sermo. de lapsis, speaking against them which thought it was sufficient, if they were received by the ordinary authority of the Church, although they were not truly penitent, writeth thus. Nemo se fallat, nemo decipiat. Solus dominus misereri potest. veniam peccatis quae in ipsum commissa sunt, solus potest ille largiri, qui peccata nostra portavit, qui pro nobis doluit, quem Deus tradidit pro peccatis nostris. Homo Deo esse non potest maior, nec remittere, aut donare indulgentia sua servus potest, quod in dominum delicto graviore commissum est, ne adhuc lapso, & hoc accedat ad crimen, si nesciat esse praedictum: Maledictus homo, qui spem habet in homine: Dominus orandus est, dominus nostra satisfactione placandus est, qui negantem negare se dixit. Let no man (saith he) deceive himself, let no man beguile himself. It is only the Lord that can show mercy. Only he can grant pardon to offences that are committed against him, who hath borne our sins. Who hath suffered sorrow for us, whom God hath given for our sins. A man can not be greater, than God, neither can the servant by his indulgence remit or forgive that which by so great offence is committed against the Lord, jest this offence also be added to him that is fallen away, if he know not that it is foreshowed. Cursed is that man that putteth his trust in man. The Lord must be entreated, the Lord must be pacified with our satisfaction which saith he doth deny that man that denieth him. In these words, Cyprian not only plainly denieth that absolute & sovereign authority of men, which M. Allen affirmeth, but also declareth, what he meaneth by satisfaction of God. Namely that those which counterfected repentance, and though, by some outward observations, to satisfy the Church, might know they had to do with God, who was not pleased, but with inward and hearty conversion, whose knowledge they must satisfy, with true repentance in deed, as they seek to satisfy judgement of the Church by external signs and tokens thereof. But to return to the common case of Christian men, (for the Pope's cases be out of the common case of christian men) M. Allen saith penance (and by penance he still meaneth punishment) is for no other cause enjoined, but to save them from more grievous torment in the world following. In deed true repentance delivereth men from eternal torments, but what is this to purgatory? even as much as the saying of Augustine, by him alleged, where he saith that God punisheth in this life with temporal pains those, whose sins are pardoned, jest they should be reserved in finem, that is for ever, which is to be chastised by the Lord, jest we should be damned with the world, of which matter enough hath been said already. To conclude this chapter (because the words following contain nothing but a vain repetition of that which he hath often said before) the censure of excommunication, with the power of binding and losing, remaineth still inviolable to the Church, now the opinion of purgatory is overthrown, as it did before the doctrine of purgatory ever came into the world. That the manifold works and fruits of penance, which all godly men have charged themselves with all, for their own sins remitted, were in respect of Purgatory pains, and for the avoiding of God's judgement temporal as well as eternal in the next life. CAP. four 1 THere be of the Epicures of our time, that seeing the usual practice of penance not only by the Church's prescription, but also by man's own voluntary acceptation, Melancth. openly to tend towards the truth and proof of Purgatory, have boldly improved (not withstanding the express counsel of the Apostle, where he willeth us to judge ourselves) all chastisement of our bodies, as unnatural torments to the injury of our own person, and the excellency of our nature. CAP. four 1 THat a detestable error may be defended with a shameless lie, he beginneth this chapter with a devilish slander. He reporteth that Melancthon (but showeth no place where, jest his impudent lie might be evidently reproved) doth boldly improve all chastisement of our bodies as unnatural torments, to the injury of our person, and the excellency of our nature, and in a manner he is as bold with S. Paul whose express counsel, he saith is, that men should chastise their bodies, where he willeth to judge themselves. As though it were all one, for men to judge themselves, and to chastise their bodies. In deed else where S. Paul commandeth, and by his example commendeth christian chastisement of men's bodies, by abstinence and fasting, and that not for fear of purgatory, but for danger of eternal damnation. This do I (saith he) for the gospels sake, that I may be made partaker of it, and again I chastise my body and bring it in subjection, jest while I preach to others, I myself should become a castaway. 1. Cor. 9 So that all godly men did not chastise their bodies in respect of the avoiding of the temporal pains of purgatory, as M. Allen affirmeth in the title of this chapter, but contrariwise all godly men that followed S. Paul's doctrine and example, had also the same respect that he had. But to return to Melancthon, it may be that in some place of his writings, he improveth the immoderate exercise of bodily chastisement, by which some have killed themselves, some made themselves lepers, some made themselves unable to execute the office of ecclesiastical administration, whereunto they were called by God. But in these cases he hath S. Paul for his warrant, who forbiddeth Timothe the drinking of water, and willeth him to use a little wine, because of his stomach and his often infirmities, assuring him that such bodily exercise profiteth but a little. 1. Tim. 4. & 5. But that Melancthon improveth all godly chastisement of men's bodies, and for godly purposes, it will never be proved until M. Allen have brought purgatory with all men in as great credit as ever it was with any man. 2 Against these corrupters of Christian conditions & virtuous life, though the examples of all faithful worshippers of God sense the world began, do clearly stand, yet the notable history of the Prophet David's repair after his heavy fall because it hath an especial warrant of his pardon, a plain process in penance, a goodly plat of due handling the sores of our sins after they be remitted, and containeth a manifest fear of Purgatory, shall best serve our turn. This Prophet then, though he was assured of his pardon, and afterward (as I said before) by Gods own hand punished, yet crieth out with abundant tears. Amplius lava me ab iniquitate mea, Psal. 50. & a peccatis meis munda me. More and more wash me from my iniquity, and of my sins purge me clean. David offended (saith S. Ambrose) as kings commonly do, Cap. 4. apol. David. but he did penance, he wept, he groaned, as kings lightly do not: he confessed his fault, he asked mercy, and throwing himself upon the hard ground, bewailed his misery, fasted, prayed, and so protested his sorrow, that he left the testimony of his confession to all the world to come. What moved this blessed man, by Gods own mouth pardoned of his sins, so to torment himself? That happy awe and deep fear of God's judgement in the next world, which the cursed security of this sweet poisoned doctrine of our days hath now taken away, even that necessary fear of the things that might faule unto him in the next life, caussed this holy prince and prophet so to vex and molest himself. It was hell, it was Purgatory that this penitent did behold: either of which he knew his sins did well deserve. S. Augustine shall bear me witness, in words worthy of all memory. Yea the Prophets own words uttered in a bitter prayer and a Psalm full of sorrow, shall bear me witness: thus saith S. Augustine. Haec iste graviora formidans, excepta vita ista in cuius malis plangit & gemit, In Psal. 37. rogat & dicit: Domine ne in surore tuo arguas me, neque in ira tua corripias me: Non sum inter illos quibus dicturus es: ite in ignem aeternum qui praeparatus est diabolo & angelis eius: Neque in ira tua emendes me, ut in hac vita me purges, & ralem me reddas cui emendatorio igne opus non sit. This man, besides the miseries of this life in which he was when he thus houleth & weepeth, further maketh suit and saith, O Lord rebuke me not in thy fury, let me not be one of them to whom thou shalt say, away from me in to fire perpetual, which is provided for the Devil and his angels. Neither yet correct me in thy wrath, but so purge me in my life time and wholly frame me, that at length I may have no need of the Amending fire. So far speaketh this doctor. By whom we may learn that David after sharp punishment taken first at God's hand, and then in the midst of many miseries of this mortal life, did yet before hand behold the horrible judgements in the next world: the one for the damned souls and spirits, the other for the amendment of such as God loved and shall be saved: in the earnest memorial of which assured pains, and for the avoiding thereof, he so afflicted himself as is before said. His heart was in heaviness, his soul in sorrow, his flesh in fear, and in his bones there was no rest before the face of his sins. Think you here a protestant preacher with a merry mouth in Nathans stead, could have driven him from this course of penance, dissuaded him from the fear of Purgatory, eased him with only faith, & set him in security & perfect freedom from his offences past? Not not, Musica in luctu importuna narratio. Ecclesi. 22. Mirth in mourning is ever out of season. Flagella & doctrina in omni tempore sapientia. But rods & discipline be always wisdom. These delicate teachers had never room but where sin bore great rule. And it is no small licklyhood of God's exceeding wrath towards us in these days, that such soft physicians please us in so dangerous diseases. It was not the doctrine of this time that healed Nabuchodonosor: but this was his plaster. Daniel. 4. Peccata tua eleemosy nis redime, & iniquitates tuas misericordijs pauperum. Redeem thy sins by alms, & thy iniquities, by mercy towards the poor. It was exceeding fasting and many sorrowful sobs, that bore of God's hand from the Ninivites, It was the painful works of penance that john the Baptist first preached. This was Paul's rule, that if we would punish or judge ourselves, than would not God judge us. In to whose hands it is a heavy case to faule. Horrendum est (saith he) incidere in manus Dei viventis. 1 Cor. 11. Haeb. 10. In cant. 55. Sermo. For he shall call to account and reckoning (as S. Bernarde supposeth) even the very acts of the just, if they be not well and thoroughly judged, and corrected to his hands: The undoubted knowledge of which straight account, moved our forefathers to require such earnest afflictions of the people, for satisfying for their sins. 2 Now let us hear what this bragger bringeth to prove that all godly men have chastised their bodies for fear of purgatory. First David in the 51. Psalm, prayeth God to wash him thoroughly from his iniquity, etc. ergo he was afraid of purgatory. I might justly refuse to answer this argument, jest I should defer any thing unto it. But let Ambrose answer by M. Allen himself alleged. He so protested his hearty repentance, that he left a testimony thereof to all the world to come. But because S. Ambrose is alleged, rather for the glory of his name, then for the help of his authority in this place S. Augustine is annexed to supply that wanted in S. Ambrose. But that you may see what patching this proctor of Purgatory useth of the doctor's sentences, he allegeth not Augustine upon the very words of the 51. Psalm, which make nothing for his purpose, but upon an other Psalm, where the argument is nothing like. If Augustine could have found Purgatory out of Amplius lava me, he would have uttered it there, where he expoundeth those words, whereby it appeareth plainly that M. Allens argument standeth upon his own invention, and not upon Augustine's authority. But yet Augustine speaketh of the amending fire in the place by him alleged. He doth so in deed: but I have showed before, and more will show hereafter, that as Augustine had no ground of that fire, but in the common error of his time, so sometimes he affirmeth that it is a matter, that may be doubted of sometimes that there is no third place at all. And that he hath no ground of Scripture in that place of the 38. Psalm, is evident, because David prayeth that God will not punish him in his fury, nor in his wrath, for when so ever he punisheth in his fury and plagueth in his wrath, they must needs perish eternally, he prayeth therefore, that that sickness or other affliction; which God hath laid upon him, might be a merciful chastisement of a father, and not a just punishment of a judge. But whereas the unpure mouth of this. Allen is once again opened in railing against the godly preachers of our Church as flatterers of men in dangerous diseases, I would he might hear the children of thunder, inveighing with mighty power of God's spirit against sin and wickedness, and calling men to true & unfeigned repentance, peradventure he might be moved to cease his slandering for shame of the world, if he did not forethink him of his wickedness for fear of God. But Nabuchodonizer had a sore corrosive plaster applied to him, that healed him, and that was alms & mercy toward the poor. He might have alleged many examples, and none less fit to show what painful penance, (as he termeth it) was enjoined by godly prophets. For it was the easiest that could be enjoined to so rich a prince, for so great offences, to be liberal to the poor. Although David in that place, cited by him, speaketh of no redemption of sins, as that corrupt & false translation which he followeth, doth seem to talk of. But Daniel willed Nabuchodoniser to break of thaccustomed course of his cruelty and tyranny, by alms and liberality. The Ninivites in deed by fasting and lamenting, but most of all by turning from their wicked ways, showed their hearty repentance: and john Baptist requireth the fruits of repentance, and what godly preacher doth not so? but where did Nathan, Daniel, jonas, john Baptist speak one word of purgatory? or of satisfying the justice of God for their sins by such means. 3 And here gentle reader give me leave, though I be the longer, to give thee a little taste of the old doctor's dealings in the sinner's case, that thou mayst compare our late handling of these matters, with their doings: and so learn to loath these light merchants, that in so grievous plagues deal so tenderly with our sores. And yet I intent not so to rove, but that the very course of our talk well noted, shall be the necessary inducing of that truth which we now defend concerning Purgatory. Especially if it be considered, that in all prescription of penance by the antiquity, the pain of satisfying was ever limited by the variety of the offence. And then that the very cause of all pain enjoined, was for the avoiding of God's judgement in the life to come. First ancient. Origen writeth thus. Behold our merciful Lord joining always clemency with severity, Homil. 3. in lib. jud. and weighing the just mean of our punishment in merciful and righteous balance. He giveth not the offenders over for ever: therefore consider how long thou hast strayed and continued in sin, so long abase and humble thyself before God, and so satisfy him in Confession of penance. For if thou amend the matter and take punishment of thyself, than God is pitiful, & will remove his revengement from him, that by penance prevented his judgement. Thus we see this father so to measure the pain and punishment of sinners, that he maketh his principal respect the avoiding of the sharp sentence to come. S. Cyprian the blessed martyr, noteth certain conversies in his days, who thought they had much wrong to be further burdened with penance for their fall, more than the return to God, again he toucheth the manners of our time very near, his words sounding thus: Before their sins fully purged, before the confession of their fault made, Sermon de Lap●is. before their consciencies by the priest and sacrifice be cleansed, before the ire and indignation of God be pacified and passed, they think all is well and make boast thereof. But he instructeth them in the same place better, as followeth: Confess yourselves brethren whilst ye are in this life, and whilst the remission and satisfaction by the priests appointment is acceptable. Let us turn unto God with all our hearts expressing the penance for our sins, by singular grief and sorrow: let us call for mercy, let us prostrate ourselves before God, let our heaviness of heart satisfy him, let us with fasting weeping and howling, appease his wrath. Whom, for that he is our loving father, we acknowledge to be merciful: and yet because he beareth the majesty of a judge, he is for justice much to be feared. To a deep and a grievous wound a long and sharp sauluing must be accepted. Exceeding earnestly thou must pray: thou must pass over the remnant of thy time with lamentable complaints, thou must for thy soft bed take hard earth and ashes, and rumble thyself in sackcloth, for the loss of Christ's vesture refuse all apparel, after the receipt of the devils food, choose earnest fasting: and by diligent applying thyself to good works and alms deeds, purge thy sin and deliver thy soul from death. 3 Here he asketh leave of the Reader to be somewhat long in rehearsing the opinions of diverse doctors, to confirm his former falsehood, but he should rather have asked leave of the doctors themselves, to belie them so beastly, & to rack their sayings so violently far from their purpose and meanings. And to begin with Origen, what doth he in that place by him alleged? but exhort men unto hearty and earnest repentance, by humbling themselves before God, and acknowledging their sins, which holy Scripture testifieth to be the way to prevent the wrath of God. And what his judgement was concerning satisfaction for sins, he declareth sufficiently in his 3. book upon the Epist. to the Rom. cap. 3. where often times he repeateth, that a man is justified before God by faith only, affirming that in forgiveness of sins, God respecteth no works but faith only, as he proveth by the parable that our Saviour used unto Simon the Pharisee. Luke 7. and answereth also those objections, which even the Papists at this day, make against us for teaching that faith only doth justify us in the sight of God. S. Cyprian (as I have sufficiently showed before) calleth such as had fallen in time of persecution from the profession of christianity, to hearty repentance, and to testify the same, by submitting themselves humbly, unto the discipline of the Church. But it is strange to see, how unconsideratly M. Allen allegeth his places, that oftentimes they contain more plain matter against him, then apparent proof by violent wrasting can be wrong out from them. I marvel M. Allen either seeth not himself, or thinketh that other men can not espy, that Cyprian exhorteth men to confession of their offences in this life, where only satisfaction and remission made by the Priests is acceptable unto the Lord. If men can not satisfy, nor Priest remit, but whilst men are in this life, then farewell satisfaction for the dead and purgatory. Cap. 3. & 4. de poevitentiae medicina. 4 So doth S. Augustine correct the error of such, as think the change of life with out all cogitation or care of their offences past, to be sufficient for man's perfect repair and reconciliation to our Lord again. It is not sufficient (saith he) to amend our manners and turn back from, our misdeeds, unless we satisfy before God for them which we have already committed, by dolour of penance, by humble sighs & groans, & by the sacrifice of a contrite heart working with alms deeds. And in this sense again he uttoreth this comfortable rule. Sed neque de ipsis criminibus quamlibet magnis remittendis in Ecclesia, Ench. 65. Dei desperanda est misericordia, agentibus poenitentiam secundum modum sui cuiusque peccati. But we may not despair of God's mercy for the remission of sins in the Church, be they never so greuoi●▪ I mean to all such as will do penance according to the quantity of their fault. So S. Ambrose writing to a religious woman that had broken her vow of chastity (which in those days was reckoned one of the most deadly and grievous crimes that could be) warneth her thus. Grandi plagae alta & prolixa opus est medicina: grand scelus grandem necessariam habet satisfactionem. A grievous hurt must have a deep & long sauluing, a heinous offence requireth marvelous much satisfaction. This sin is better bolstered now a days. Yea & as I take his words, he plainly admonisheth her, that she shall have much a do to satisfy fully for her sin during her life: & therefore he seemeth to will her, not to look for full remedy and release before she feel God's judgement. Which he meaneth not by the general day, but the particular account which followeth straight upon man's death. But that I deceive no man wittingly I will report his own words. Inhaere poenitentiae usque ad extremum vitae, Cap. 8. add virg. laps. nec tibi praesumas ab humano die posse veniam dari: quia decipit te qui hoc tibi polliceri volverit: quae enim proprie in dominum peccasti, ab illo solo in die judicij convenit expectare remedium. Continued in penance to the last day thou hast to live, and presume not over boldly of pardon to be obtained in man's day: for who so ever promiseth thee so, he deceiveth thee: for thou that hast offended directly against God himself, must at God's hand only in the day of judgement trust of mercy. If he mean by the last judgement, than the author supposeth that such horrible incest shall be punished till the day of the general resurrection, in purgatory: for after that day as Augustin affirmeth, there shall be no more any of the elect in pain. He meaneth them surely nothing else, De civitate Dei cap. 13. lib. 21. but that there can be no penance answerable fully in this life to so grievous a crime, and that the Church ordinarily pardoneth not the sins, which be not by some proportion of pain and punishment recompensed. And this is ordinary, though by the supreme power given to God's ministers for the government of the Church, the offender may in this case or the like, if his competent dolour of heart and ze●e so require, wholly be acquieted through the merits of Christ's death, and the happy fellowship of saints, in the communion of the common body: where the lack of one member is abundantly supplied by the residue. Marry it is a ●arde matter to be so qualified, that a man may not be unworthy of so singular a grace and unestimable benefit. Therefore this prerogative pertaining not to very many, excepted, for the residue that by the ordinary Sacrament be raised up from their fall, every one must endeavour to do penance more or less, according to the quantity and circumstances of the crime committed: so S. Augustine said before, so doth S. Ambrose mean now, giving this woman warning that her fault was so horrible, that the penance done in this life could not properly and exactly make recompense therefore, and yet after punishment tolerated at God's appointment in the next life, he doubteth not to assure her of pardon at the length, and release of all pain. Thus was sin handled in those days. And why it was so painfully riped up to the very bottom, you see. Compare our days and dealing to theirs, and thou shalt wonder to see the diversity betwixt their manners, and ours: and to see the physicians work so diversly, where the diseases be all one. 4 Now followeth the authority of S. Augustine, both right and counterfeit, the counterfeit Augustine, that writ the work de poenitentia, etc. I vouchsafe not to answer, because I weigh not the authority, but detest the impudence of him that had patched up such a piece a work, to father upon S. Augustine, as no man of less learning than Augustine was, would abide to go under his own name. The other place in his Enchiridion sufficiently expoundeth itself, that it speaketh of remission of sins in the Church, which according to the discipline of that time, required satisfaction according to the quantity and quality of the offence. The words of S. Ambrose import none other thing, but that an heinous offence must be earnestly bewailed, if repentance be not counterfeited. And where as M. Allen is in a peck of troubles, between that which he supposeth to be the opinion of Ambrose, and that which he allegeth out of Augustine, to prove that the pains of purgatory shall not continued after the resurrection, it is not all worth the pains he taketh about it. For that the said fallen virgin, should not think she had been penitent enough, if she obtained absolution in the judgement of men, he assureth her as Cyprian in his sermon de lapsis, doth the fallen men of his time, that forgiveness of sins is proper unto God only, and followeth not of necessity the sentence of men, but the sentence of men aught to follow the judgement of God. And those words, in die judicij, about the meaning whereof, M. Allen vexeth himself, are to be understood by the opposite ab humano die, for thereby it is manifest, that the judgement of God is set against the judgement of men. And that is the phrase of the scripture which S. Ambrose followeth, as when S. Paul saith of the Corinthian, that his soul may be self in the day of the Lord jesus Christ, he meaneth not that he should be punished in purgatory, though he repent unto the general day of judgement, but as S. Peter Act. 3. affirmeth, that our sins are forgiven against the coming of Christ to judgement, signifying that then the full fruit of forgiveness of sins shall appear, when we shall thereby be discharged in the judgement of God. But what S. Ambrose thinketh of that kind of satisfaction, whereof M. Allen speaketh, is plain by those words which he uttereth of Peter in his exposition of S. Luke lib. 10. cap. 2. Lachrymas eius lego, satisfactionem non lego. I read of his tears, I read not of his satisfaction. But unto the other kind of satisfaction, whereby the church is satisfied, our Saviour Christ driveth Peter, when he causeth him to blot out the memory of his triple denial, with a triple confession of his love: As Augustine also acknowledgeth: but if purgatory be so necessary to satisfy God's justice by temporal pains of sinners, according to the time, etc. and purgatory shall cease at the day of judgement, as you affirm out of Augustine, how shall the same be satisfied in such as die immediately before the day of judgement, so that they have not had time enough, there to be sufficiently purged, the like may be demanded, of all them which in a moment shallbe changed from mortality to immortality, at the very coming of jesus Christ to judgement. These questions M. Allen will trouble your head to answer and retain your former principles, more than that whereof you make your doubt, and your determination as uncertain as your doubt: while you are so cumbered, on the one side to uphold purgatory, upon colour of satisfying God's justice, on the other side, to maintain the Pope's pardon, without satisfying of God's justice, so that how so ever you satisfy yourself in your own fantasy, I promise' you no reasonable man can be satisfied by your doubtful disputations, and unsteadfast conclusions. 5 I might here well to my purpose repeat the singular praises, that S. Hierome gave unto noble Paula: who (as he writeth of her) with fountains of tears, In epitaph. Paulae. exceeding lavish alms, & pitiful fasting, washed away such venial and small offences, as other men would scarcely do much more grievous crimes. And to seek for what end this holy matron vexed herself and tormented her body, it were in a manner needless▪ for being not guilty of any grievous sins, she could have no great fear of hell pains: than it must needs be, that she took punishment of herself to prevent Gods temporal scourge in the life to come. She well considered (for it was the doctrine of that holy time) that every sin be it never so small or common, Note. doth indebt the offender unto God: and therefore the justest person that liveth (excepting Christ, and for his honour his mother) as S. Augustine saith must confess debt, and cry for pardon by our masters prayer: dimit nobis debita nostra: forgive us our debts, the which, because they be debt, must either be pardoned by prayer, or paid by pain. And therefore being not here remitted, or not satisfied by worthy punishment in this life, they must of justice be purged after our departure, according to the numbered of them and the negligence of the offender. And this faith of Purgatory and respect of God's judgements to come, feared the holiest persons that ever were in God's church. This drove many a blessed man to perpetual penance: this brought Hierom himself into the wilderness of Syria, there to lament the lapse of his frail youth, ever in expectation of this call: Exi foras Hieronym, Come out Hierom: this filled the deserts with many a noble Hermit, this raised up the cloisters and all the holy houses of mourning and prayers in the whole world, and hath in all ages appeared both in the words and works of all Christian people, as we shall better anon declare. 5. Here, because you have no likely matter out of S. jeronyme to serve your turn, yet to make a show of his name, you must repeat that, which is nothing like to your matter. Paula was penitent for her sins, with prayers, alms, and fasting, and all for fear of purgatory. So saith M. Allen. But jeronyme saith not so, M. Allen is here all the credit of the matter, believe him as you list. But if any man had rather believe Chrysostome speaking of such kind of works, as M. Allen and his fellows, count to be the chief works of penance, whether they serve for satisfaction for our sins unto God, let him consider what he writeth, in his treatise the compunctione cordis, lib. 2. Non requirit Deus ciliciorum pondus, neque concludi inter angustias cellulae, neque in obscuris antris & tencbrosis sedere jubet: hoc solum est quod exposcatur à nobis, ut semper recordemur mala nostra, etc. God requireth not the burden of heavy garments, not to be shut up with the straits of a little cell, neither doth he command us to sit in obscure and dark dungeons or dens: this only is that which is required of us, that we should always remember our evil life, etc. you see therefore by chrysostom's judgement, that neither the satisfaction of God's righteousness, nor any obedience of God's commandment, hath banished the hermits, closed up the Anachorets', and cloyed the world with cloisterers, but the superstitious and slavish fear of purgatory, & the blasphemous presumptuous pride of men's merits. I pass over, as not proper to your matter, that for the honour of Christ, you except his mother, from confessing herself to be indebted to God, and not to be in the numbered of those, by whom the lords prayer is to be said. Such honour neither doth God allow her, nor she arrogate unto herself, but acknowledgeth her own baseness, and joyfully accepteth God's salvation. It is greater honour to Christ, to be saviour of his mother, then to have such a mother, as had no need of his salvation. He himself more than once, is read to have reproved her, wherein he had done her wrong, if she had committed no trespass. Luke. 2. john. 2. 6 But list you see how this doctrine of penance liked Caluine? The shrew saw that by granting of this satisfaction for sin and the profitable usage thereof in this life, that it might argue of necessity the residue of some pains in the next if it were here omitted or not ended. And therefore I pray you see how substantially he answereth and how like himself, Parumme movent (saith he) quae in veterum scriptis de satisfactione passim occurrunt, video enim eorum nonnullos, In institut. dicam simpliciter, omnes fere quorum libri extant, aut in hac part lapsos esse, aut nimis aspere & dure locutos. I make small account of that which I often find concerning Satisfaction in the ancient writers, for I perceive divers of them, shall I be plain with you? in a manner every one that ever wrote till this day, in this point to have been foully deceived, or spoken more roughly than they should have done. Is not this a fellow alone? whether think you now our English bragger craking all the doctors to be on his part, or this man confessing plainly that they be all against him, and yet setting not a button by them all, whether think you is more arrogant? I am sure Caluine dealeth here more sincerely, and the other more deceitfully. If craking had been a mastery in summer games as lying is, our man might have won of all the world, two games at a clap. But there is no remedy he must yield to the learned that have opened his impudency. Therefore I leave him, and take the benefit of this his masters confession for further confirmation of my cause, doubting nothing but that most wise men, seeing by the adversaries grant all learned fathers to be on our side, will accept it either as a full proof, or no small presumption of that truth which we defend. 6 But list you hear, how this presumptuousse prattler, can not conclude his chapter which he began with lying upon Melancthon, but by slandering of Caluine. He feigneth that Caluine in the words by him rehearsed, confesseth all the doctors to be against him, and yet setteth not a button for them all. The best reproof of this calumniation, shallbe to send them that be desirous to know the truth, unto the whole discourse of Caluine, upon satisfaction Insti. lib. 3. cap. 4 which who so list to do, shall plainly see, whether Allen doth him not here open wrong. But because every man either can not for the lack of the book, or will not for want of good affections towards Caluine, take so much pains, as to peruse his own writing. I will answer in a word or two. After that Caluine hath most substantially proved, both by authority of holy Scripture, and also by consent of ancient doctors, that their is no satisfaction unto God for our sins, but only the death of Christ, he cometh at length, to speak of the word of satisfaction, which saith he, as it is often used in the old writers, so sometime hardly, as improperly (that M. Allen calleth roughly) or if any of them have erred about satisfaction, it were not reason, that their error should prevail against the open truth. And clearly to convict M. Allen, of a loud lie, where he saith that Caluine confesseth all the doctors to be against him, his words follow immediately after those rehearsed by M. Allen: Sed non credam eos ipsos adeo fuisse rudes & imperitos, ut eo sensu illa scripserint, quo à novis istis satisfactionariis leguntur. That is, how soever they have either erred, or spoken unproperly of satisfaction, yet I will not grant, that the same men were so rude and ignorant, that they did wright those things, in that sense, in which they are read by these new satisfactionaries. Then doth he bring forth divers testimonies both out of Chrysostome and Augustine to show what their judgement was of satisfaction agreeable to the Scriptures by which must be expounded, what so ever they have uttered that seemeth either erroneus or at the jest unproperly spoken. As for that reverend father M. jewel whom this arrogant Lovanist, calleth the English bragger, how well he hath answered his challenged, his own learned labours, do more clearly testify unto the world, then that it can be blemished by this sycophants brainless babbling. A brief joining in reason and argument upon the proved grounds, with the adversaries, for the declaration of Purgatory. CAP. V. 1 HAving undoubtedly won thus much both by evident testimony of holy writ, by the warrant of all the learned fathers, by good reason, and by the adversaries own confession, I will be bold to bore the very joints of the argument, that both the simple may acknowledge my plain dealing, and the Protestant have his vantage, if the reason stand not upright. With out colour or gloze then thus I make my proof. After the sins of man be pardoned, God oftentimes punisheth the offender, the church punisheth him, and man punisheth himself, ergo there is some pain due after sin be remitted. Secondly this pain can not always be discharged in this world, either for lack of space after the remission, as it happeth in repentance at the hour of death, or else when the party liveth in perpetual wealth without care or cogitation of any satisfaction, therefore it must be answered in an other place. Thirdly the common infirmities and the daily trespasses which abase and defile the works even of the virtuous, of their proper condition do deserve pain for a time, as the mortal offence deserveth perpetual: Therefore as the mortal sin, being not here pardoned, must of justice have the reward of everlasting punishment: so it must needs follow, that the venial fault not here forgiven, should have the reward which of nature it requireth: that is to say, temporal pain. And therefore not only the wicked, but the very just also must travel to have their daily infirmities and frailty of their corrupt natures forgiven: crying without ceasing forgive us our debts: Quia non iustificabitur in conspectu tuo omnis vivens. For no man alive shallbe able to stand before the face of God in his own justice or righteousness, Aug. Ench. cap. 71. and if these light sins should never be imputed, than it were needless to cry for mercy or confess debt, as every man doth be he never so passing holy. To be brief, this debt of pain for sin by any way remaining at the departure hence, must of justice be answered: Which can not be without punishment in the next life, than there must be a place of judgement for temporal and transitory pains in the other world. The whole discourse made before hath given force enough to every part of the argument: the Scriptures do prove it, the practice of the Church confirmeth it, all the doctors by our adversaries grant, agreed upon it. If they have any thing to say, here I make them fair play: the ground is open, the reasons laid naked before their face: remove them as they can. Let them deal simply if they mean truly, and not flourish as they use, upon a false ground, that in flow of words they may cover error, or in race of their smooth talk overrun truth. And that every man may perceive that we have not raised this doctrine upon reason only or curiosity (although the grave authority of God's Church might here in satisfy sober wits) we will now by God's help go nearer the matter, and directly make proof of Purgatory by holy Scriptures: reciting such places of the old and new Testament, as shall prove our cause, even in that sense which the learnedst and godlyest fathers of all ages, by conference of places or other likelihood, shall find and determine to be most true. Alleging none else but such as they have, in the flower of Christian faith, noted and peculiarly construed for that purpose which now is in question. That the adversaries of that doctrine, may rather strive with the said saints and doctors, then with me, that will as they shall well perceive do nothing, but truly report their words or meaning. Or rather that such as have erred in that case, by giving over light credit to the troublesome teachers of these unhappy days, may, when they shall understand the true meaning of the Scriptures, the constant doctrine of the Catholic Church, the words of all ancient writers, the determination of so many holy Counsels, & the old usage of all nations by humble prayers obtain of God the light of understanding the truth, and the gift of obedience to his will and word. Or if there be any so sattled in this unlickely sect, that he purposeth not to believe the grave writers of old times, nor receive their expositions upon such places as we shall recite, for that prejudice which he hath of this own wit and understanding, yet let him not marvel at my simplicity, that had rather give credit to others than myself: Or that in this hot time of contention and partaking in religion, I do repose myself under the shadow of so many worthy writers, as anon shall give evidence in my cause. CAP. V. 1 TRiumphing before the victory, and that is more, before the encontry of hand strokes, (for we come to joining but now) you will now win your spurs or else it shallbe a black day with all Protestants. I will be as short in mine answer, as you are in your arguments. And that I may put on an armour of proof, to bear of your terrible haileshot, your first argument hath neither good form nor matter, no more hath your second, no more hath your third? If you or any for you, will prepare yourself to give a bitter charge, either I or some other, shallbe ready to shape you an other answer. But because here is nothing in this brief joining, but which hath been largely discharged before, in answer to your long excursions, it were needless to make such vain repetition, as you do, especially in your last short argument, in which space all the substance of your large book might easily have been placed, only to fill up a competent length of the fift chapter, and with such a tedious enlarging of a superfluous matter, as a young practiser of Rhetoric would be ashamed to use, in a feigned declamation, much worse becoming an ancient master of art, professing to truss up his arguments by Logic, to make a perfect persuasion. As for the promiss of further proof, both out of the Scriptures and out of the doctors that followeth after this gallant joining, and lusty challenge, shall have no prejudice of my disabling of the mean to perform it until it appear by plain conference of his arguments and mine answers, that his words are but wind, and his promiss but prattling. That Purgatory pains doth not only serve God's justice for the punishment of sin, but also cleanse and qualify the soul of man defiled, for the more seemly entrance into the holy places, with conference of certain places of Scripture for that purpose. CAP. VI 1 IF we well consider the wonderful base condition and state of man's nature corrupted by our first father's disobedience, and more and more abased by continual misery that sin hath brought into our mortal life, we shall find the work of God's wisdom in the excellent repair of this his creature, to be full of mercy, and full of marvel. But proceeding somewhat further, and weighing not only his restoring, but also the passing great anauncement to the unspeakable glory of the elect, there shall reason and all our cogitations utterly faint and fail us. The kingdom prepared is honoured with the majesty of the glorious Trinity, with the humanity of Christ our Saviour, with the blessed Mary the vessel of his Incarnation, with the beautiful creatures and wholly undefiled, of all the orders of Angels. There can nothing doubtless present itself before the seat of God's glory, nor stand in his sight, that hath any blemish of sin, any spot of corruption, any remnant of infirmity. What purity is required for the entrance into heaven. There may no creature match with those perfect pure natures of spiritual substance in the happy service of the holy Trinity, that is not holy as they be, pure as they be, and wholly sanctified as they be. Nothing can join with them in freedom of that heavenly city, in the joyful estate of that triumphant common wealth, that is not purified to the point, and by the work of Gods own hand fully fined and perfected. This is the new City of Jerusalem, which the holy Apostle saw by vision: Nec in eam intrabit aliquid coinquinatum. Nothing shall entre therein, that is defiled. Apoc. 21. It is the Church without spot and wrinkle, it is the temple of God, it is the seat of the Lamb, and the land of the living. Now our kind, notwithstanding our pitiful fall and singular frailty, with exceeding corruption and unaptenesse both of body and soul, hath yet by Christ jesus our Redeemer, the assurance of this unestimable benefit, and the fellowship of perpetual fruition with the Angels. To whom as we must be made equal in room and glory, so we must in perfect cleanness be fully matched with them. For it were not agreeable to God's ordinary justice, Levit. 21. who in this earthly sanctuary expressly forbiddeth the oblations of the unclean, Rupert. de divini. offi. l. 6. cap. 36. that he should in the celestial sovereign holy acknowledge any nature that were not pure and undefiled: or make man's condition not abettered, equal to the dignity of Angels that never were reproved: whereby unjustice might appear in God, or confusion in the heavens common wealth, where only all ordre is observed. And though man's recovery after his fall be wrought by Christ. and the perfect purgation of sins by the blood of him that only was with out sin, yet it was not convenient, that the might of that mercy should work in this freedom of our wills, with out all pain of the party, or travel of the offenders. Whereof man straight upon his miserable down fall (as S. Ambrose excellently well noteth) had warning by the fiery sword holden at the entrance of paradise: In Psa. 118. Serm. 20. thereby putting him in remembrance, that the return to bless so soon lost, should be through fiere and sword hardly achieved again. Therefore if any man think the only forgiveness of our sins past, sufficient either for the recovery of our first degree, or the attaining of further dignity in the glory of the Saints, he seeth not at all what a deep stroke sin hath set in man's soul, what filth and feebleness it hath wrought in the body, what rule and dominion it beareth in this our mortality, what care all perfect men have had, not only in the healing of the deep wound, but also in purging the relics, and fall abbating the abundant matter thereof. And yet when man hath with all his might wrestled with the power of sin, being in this estate, he can not be able to recover the worthiness of his creation, much less the passing honour and end of his redemption. Let him wash and water his couch with tears, let him weaken his body with fasting, and humble his heart with sorrow? Happily the fiery sword shall not hinder his passage after his departure, yet till the separation of the body and the soul, full freedom from sin or perfect purgation thereof (excepting the privilege of certain) can not be fully obtained. Wherein yet mercy at the end hath the chief stroke, by which the soul that was the principal vessel of sin, and no less abased than the body, shall out of hand in the perfectest sort, obtain the purity of Angels and fellowship with them for ever. CAP. VI 1 ONce again I pray you note this orderly proceeding, look when he maketh such a liberal promiss, as in the chapter going before, the performance shall not follow by and by after, but by interlacing of other matter, it shall be first out of mind, and then he may better keep his credit, when he goeth about to perform it. Year while he would in all the haste, make direct proof by holy Scripture, of the doctrine of purgatory, but now as though purgatory were already proved, he will show for what use it serveth, namely to cleanse and qualify the soul of man, that it may be meet to enter into the holy places. And for this purpose, he showeth at large, which might have been uttered in brief, that the corruption of man's sinful nature is so great, and the perfection of dignity, whereunto we are called so high, as man, except he be thoroughly purged, is no meet person to be partaker thereof. But jest he should be thought here to forget the perfect restitution by Christ, he confesseth the perfect purgation of our sins to be wrought by his blood, yet he saith, it is not meet that the might of that mercy should work in this freedom of our will, without all pain or travel of the offenders. This is to give with one hand, and to pull away with the other hand. But that this enemy of the cross of Christ, shall not thus pass away with his reservations and exceptions, that which he granteth, we will take at the hand of God, and not of this unpure blasphemer: who by his holy spirit teacheth us that the blood of Christ doth purge us from all our sins: & being washed by him we are thoroughly clean. john 13. So that although our sins were as red as scarlet, they are made as white as snow. Esay 1 Then being thoroughly purged, washed & cleansed as white as snow, we are made capable of the heavenly inheritance and the fruition of eternal glory. And if any man had rather believe an Angel, before M. Allen, an elder of the heavenly consistory, sooner than a young palting proctor of purgatory: Let him hear what is said to S. john in his revelation, 7. cap. whereby is declared by what privilege, all the faithful departed appear in innocency before the throne of God. These are they (saith the Angel) that came out of that great affliction, and have washed their stoles and made them white in the blood of the lamb: therefore they are in the presence of the throne of God, and serve him day and night, etc. Mark here that they which came out of this great affliction, were not purged thereby, after M. Allens fantasy, but that they washed and made white their garments, in the blood of the lamb, by whose righteousness they being clothed, may appear in innocency before the throne of God. As for that which is cited out of Ambrose, of the fiery sword, is meant of the sorrow of repentance, and with no equity can be racked to the pains of purgatory. 2 I marvel not now to see the Prophet seek not only for the remission of his grievous sins, but to be better cleansed, to have them wholly blotted out, to be made as white as snow: beholding the purity that is requisite for a citizen of the celestial Jerusalem. And I note this the rather of the soul, because I see that the body also, before it can shake of the stroke and plague of sin, must be driven (by the common course) to dust and elements, that being at the end raised up again in the same substance, may yet wholly in condition and quality be so strangely altered, that in honour and immortality it may everlastingly join with the soul again. To the newness whereof, the very elements that before answered it in qualities of corruption, August. lib. 20. de civit. cap. 16. 1. Cor. 15. shall be perfectly by fire reformed, and serve in beauty and incorruption eternal. If sin then be so revenged and thoroughly tried out of man's body, and all corruption out of these elements for the glory of that new and eternal kingdom, shall we doubt of God's justice in the perfect revenge of sin in the soul, or purifying that nature, which as it was most corrupted & was the very feat of sin, Note. so namely appertaineth to the company of Angels and glory everlasting? It were not otherwise agreeable to God's justice surely, nor convenient for the glorious estate to come: it were neither right, nor reason. He will then, where man neglecteth the day of mercy, sharply viset with torment, himself: and both purge and purify the dross of our impure natures defiled and stained by sin, with judgement and righteousness. Abluet Dominus sordes filiarum Zion, isaiah. 4. & sanguinem Jerusalem, lavabit de medio eius, in spiritu judicij, & spiritu ardoris. Our Lord shall wash out the filth of the daughters of Zion: and will cleanse blood from the midst of Jerusalem, in the spirit of judgement, and the spirit of burning. But because we will not stand upon conjectures in so necessary a point, you shall see by what Scriptures the grave and learned fathers have to my hand confirmed this believed truth. And first I will recite those places which do set forth both the quality and condition of that punishment, which God taketh upon man for sin in the other world: and also did give just occasion to our forefathers of the name of Purgatory. 2 Consider what wholesome doctrine this student in Divinity gathereth out of the Scriptures of God. David not content with remission of his sins, seeketh to be better cleansed, to have them wholly blotted out, and to be made as white as snow▪ but by what means M. Allen? or at whose hands? Dare you say that he prayeth God to cleanse him better by his own suffering, than he was by God's merciful pardon? What was figured by the bunch of Isope, dipped in the lambs blood, with which he desireth to be sprinkled, assuring himself that thereby he shall be washed whiter than snow? Was it purgatory, or the aspersion of the blood of Christ? O horrible blasphemer, wilt thou never acknowledge the omnisufficiency of the benefit of man's redemption by the son of God? shall thy vain gangling and jumbling of thy devices with God's decrees, obscure the glory of our Lord and Saviour Christ his passion, who hath loved us, and washed us, from our sins by his blood, and made us Kings and Priests in the sight of God, who hath given himself for his beloved Church, that he might sanctify it, and cleanse it, by the washing of water, through the word, that he might make it unto himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blame. What similitude hath this with Allens prattling of pureness and patching in of purgatory? As for the place alleged out of Esay the 4. Because he dare not abide by it himself, but confess that it is but a conjecture of his own, to draw it to purgatory which in deed is plainly spoken of the reformation of the Church in this life. I need spend no more time in answering it. 3 There be two texts of Scriptures to this purpose so like, that many of the doctors, for better conference in so weighty a case, have joined them together to make their proof full: and so will I do by their example. The first is in the third chapter of the prophet Malachi in these words. Malach 3 Ecce venit dicit Dominus exercituum, & quis poterit cogitare diem adventus eius? Et quis stabit ad videndum eum? Ipse enim quasi ignis con●●ans, & quasi herba fullonum: & sedebit con●tans & emundans argentum, & purgabit filios Levi, & colabit eos quasi aurum & argentum, & erunt Domino offerentes sacrificia in justitia. Et placebit Domino sacrificium juda & Jerusalem, etc. Behold he cometh (saith the Lord of Hostes.) And who may abide the day of his coming? Who can stand & endure his sight▪ For he is like melting and casting fire, and as the washers herb. And he shall sit casting and trying out silver, Sope. and shall purge the children of Levi, & cleanse them as gold or silver, And then shall they offer sacrifice in righteousness: & the offerings of juda & Jerusalem, shall be acceptable unto our Lord. And thus far spoke the prophet. The second is this, taken out of the first Epistle to the Corinthians. Cap. 3. Secundum gratiam Dei quae data est mihi, ut sapiens architectus fundamentum posui, alius autem superaedificat. unusquisque autem videat quomodo superaedificet. Fundamentum enim aliud nemo potest ponere, praeter id quod est positum: quod est Christus jesus. Si quis autem superaedificat super fundamentum hoc, aurum, argentum, lapides preciosoes, ligna, foenum, stipulam, uniuscuiusque opus manifestum erit. dies enim Domini declarabit, quia in igne revelabitur: & uniuscuiusque opus quale sit, ignis probabit. Si cuius opus manserit quod superaedificavit, merceden accipiet: si cuius opus arserit, detrimentum patietur: ipse autem saluus erit, sic tamen quasi per ignem. Thus in English: According to the grace of God given unto me, as a discriete builder I have laid the groundewarke: but an other buildeth thereon. Let every man be circumspect how he buildeth on it. For no fundatión can be laid, but Christ jesus, which is already laid. If any man build upon this groundewarke, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or stooble, every man's work shall be laid open. For the day of our Lord will declare it, because it shall appear in fire. And that fire shall try every man's work what it is: if any man's work erected upon that foundation do abide, he shall receive reward, but if his work burn, he shall sustain loss (or it shall sustain ●osse, meaning by the work itself, as the text well serveth also) but himself shall be saved notwithstanding, and that yet as through fire. These be S. Paul's words. Now as men studious of the truth, careful of our faith and salvation, and fully free from contention and partaking, let us enter into the search of the meaning of these two texts, with such plainness & sincerity that I dare say the adversaries, themselves shall not mislike our dealing. Plain dealing. We will follow all likelihoods by comparing the scriptures together, and admit with all, the counsel and judgement of such our elders, as by their confession shall be taken for holy, learned, and wise. First the prophet and Apostle both, make mention of purging & of purifying sin, & corruption of man's impure or defiled works: they both agreed this cleansing or trying out of the filthy dross gathered by corruption of sin, to be done by fire: they both thoroughly follow the similitude of the furnace and goldesmith in fining his metals, and trying out the dross and base matter from the perfect finesse of more worthy substance: they both plainly utter their meanings of such as shall afterward be saved, though it be with loss: giving us to understand, that the parties so purged, shall be after their trial worthy to offer a pure sacrifice in holiness & righteousness: They both note this purgation to be wrought by the hand of God. All these must needs be confessed, even of the contrary teachers: which things together, contain more probability for the proof of our purpose, than they can for any other sense find. But now touching the text nearer, and finding that this work of man's amending shall be wrought in the next life, than it must needs so induce this sense, that no meaning may well be admitted, which evidently setteth not forth the truth of Purgatory. And that this work is not properly taken for any such trouble or vexation that may fall to man in this life, but for a very torment prepared for the next world, first the quality of the judgement, & means in the execution of that sentence of God (which is named to be done by fire) seemeth rather to import that, than any other vexation, the punishment of the world following always lightly so termed. Then man is in this purging only a sufferer, which belongeth namely to the next world. But especially that this sentence shall be executed in the day of our Lord, which properly signifieth either the day of our death, or the sentence of God which straight followeth upon death: or the last and general judgement. All the time of man's life wherein he followeth his freedom, is called Dies Hominis: the day of man, because as man in this life for the most part serveth his own will, so he often neglecteth Gods: but at his death, there beginneth Dies Domini: Where God executeth his ordinance and will upon man. This trial then of man's misdeeds & impure works, must either be at his death, or after his departure by one of the two judgements. But if we note diligently the circumstances of the said letter, it shall appear unto us, that this purgation was not meant to be only at man's death: both because it shall be done by fire, which (as is said) commonly noteth the torment of the next life: and then S. Paul expressly warneth us to take heed what we build, in respect of the difference that may fall to such as build fine works, and other that erect upon the foundation, impure or mixed matter of corruption: but the pains of death being common to the best, as well as to the worst or indifferent, and no less grievous in itself to one than the other, can not be imported by the fire which shall bring loss to the one sort, and not pain the other. Besides all this, that day which the Prophet speaketh of, shall be notorious in the sight of the world and very terrible to many: And Saint Paul plainly affirmeth, that in this judgement there shall be made an open show of such works as were hid before from man, and not discerned by the judgement of this world: which the private death of one man can not do. 2. Cor. 5. And lightly the Apostle warning man of the sentence of God in the next life, admonisheth him that our deeds must be laid open before the judgement seat of God so here, Dies domini declarabit, quia in igne revelabitur: the day of our Lord will open the matter, because it shall be showed in fire. Last of all, the Prophet nameth the time of this sharp trial, Dien adventus domini: which is a proper calling of one of the judgements: either that which shall be general at the last day, or else that which every man must first abide strait after his departure, when he shall be called to the peculiar reckoning for his own acts. In either of which judgements, Magis. l. 4. dist. 47. this purging and amending fire shall be found. For as in that general waist of the whole world by the fire of conflagration, 2. Petri. cap. 3. which is called ignis praecedens faciem judicis, because it awaiteth to fulfil Christ's ordinance in the day of his second coming, as in that fire the whole man both body and soul may suffer loss & extreme pain for his punishment or purgation, and yet by that same fire be saved: even so out of doubt at this particular judgement strait upon every man's death, the soul of the departed if it be not before free, must suffer pains and Purgation by the like vehement torment working only upon the soul, as the other shall do on the whole man. And the Prophet's words now alleged, do mean principally of the purgation that shall be made of the faithfuls corrupted works, by the fire of conflagration, in the second coming of Christ: though his words well prove the other also, as S. Paul too, meaneth by them both. 3 Now I trow cometh the confirmation of purgatory out of the holy Scriptures, or else it will never come, when two texts are alleged at once. But although M. Allen hath rather craftily confounded, then faithfully compared these two texts together, for all his protestation of plain dealing: yet will I severally consider them, and show both by the plain circumstances of the places themselves, and also by the judgement of the ancient doctors, that neither of them both appertaineth any whit to purgatory. First Malachy prophesieth plainly of the first coming of Christ, and of his forerunner john Baptist, as the words going before, without all controversy do declare. Behold I will sand my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord whom ye seek, shall speedily come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant whom ye desire, behold he shall come saith the Lord of hosts, but who may abide the day of his coming, etc. witness of this is no less, than even our Saviour Christ himself, Luke the 7. alleging this saying of the Prophet, for the coming of john the Baptist. These words also, where it is said that the Lord shall come into his temple, do sufficiently declare, that he describeth the office of Christ, in reforming the corrupt state of the Church at his first coming, and not in judging the quick and the dead at the last appearing. Finally the exact trial and purging that he speaketh of, is the discovering of hypocrites by his doctrine, whereof also john Baptist preacheth, that his fan is in his hand, and he shall purge his floor, etc. To conclude, that this may not be thought to be mine own collection, it is the judgement and interpretation of jeronym upon this very text Malachy the 3. in every point: who with all his learning, could find no purgatory fire spoken of in this cap. Now to the other place o● Paul, that it can by no equity be drawn to purgatory for all M. Allens likelihood numbering in the margin, it shall be manifest by as many evident arguments. First S. Paul speaketh not generally of all men, but of preachers only that are builders of God's Church. Secondly he speaketh not of all their works, but of their preaching or building only. Thirdly he speaketh never a word of purging or making clean of men's works, but of the trial of the work of building which is doctrine. But what doctrine is tried to be true or false, substantial or superficial by the fire of purgatory? Fourthly the works are said that shall be tried by fire, and not the persons. Fiftly the gold and silver abideth, the straw and stubble consumeth, through the fire of this trial, which is the judgement of God, and not the pains of purgatory. And this is the judgement of jeronym upon the place of Malachy, before rehearsed, where also he applieth the text of Esay 4. before cited by M. Allen. fol. 59 The Lord (saith he) is a consuming fire to burn up our wood, hay, and straw. The other observations be also taken out of that ancient doctor whose commentary upon the epistle to the Corinthians hath gone under the name of jeronym and is annexed to his works, saving that by gold, silver, wood, straw, etc. he understandeth the men themselves, and not their works. But as for purgatory he findeth none by that text. S. Augustine also although otherwise, inclining to the error of purgatory, yet he is clear that this text proveth it not, neither aught to be expounded of it, and that he showeth by many reasons, Enchirid. ad Laurentium cap. 68 where he affirmeth that by the fire is meant the trial of tribulation in this life, Chrysostom upon the same text, understandeth by the fire everlasting punishment even of him that shall be saved through fire without any mention of purgatory, except it be in reproving them that denied immortal punishment to be meant by this place. in 1. Cor. 3. Hom. 9 But if the place were to be considered absolutely, without regard of circumstances, as the Papists do when they expound it for purgatory, yet can not it aptly be framed thereto, because he saith that every man's work, or the man himself if they will, shall pass through that fire, but they themselves affirm, that perfect good men shall not come there at all, nor very wicked men, but only men of a middle sort, but by trial of this fire whereof S. Paul speaketh, good men shall receive reward when their work endure, therefore this is not the fire of purgatory. That there is a particular judgement and private account to be made at every man's departure, of his several acts and deeds, with certain of the father's minds touching the texts of Scripture alleged before. CAP. VII. 1 ANd though such as shall live at the coming of the judge in the later day, shall then be purged of their corruption and base works of infirmity, by the fire that shall a better and altar the impure nature of these corruptible elements, or otherwise according to God's ordinance: yet the common sort of all men which in the mean time departed this world, must not tarry for their purgation till that general amending of all natures, no more than the very good, in whom after their baptism no filth of sin is found, or if any were, was wiped away by penance, must await for their salvation: or the wicked tarry for their just judgement to damnation. The particular judgement. But strait this sentence either of judgement or mercy, must be pronounced: and therefore is called the particular judgement, by which the soul only shall receive wealth or woe, as at the day of the great account both body and soul must do. Of this several trial the holy Apostle S. Paul saith: Ad Hebr. 9 statutum est omnibus hominibus semel mori, post hoc judicium: It is determined that every man once must die, and after that cometh judgement. And an other Scripture more expressly thus: Facile est coram domino reddere unicuique in die obitus sui, Eccles. 11. secundum vias suas. It is an easy matter before our Lord, that every man at the day of his death should be rewarded according to his life & ways: Again in the same place: Memor esto judicij mei: sic enim erit & tuum, mihi heri, & tibi hody. Have in remembrance my judgement, for such shall thine own be: yesterday was mine, today may be thine. And therefore S. Ambrose saith, that without delay the good poor man was carried to rest, and the wicked rich out of hand suffered torments. That every man (saith he) may feel before the day of judgement, Super 5. ad Roman. what he must then look for. And in an other place the same holy man writeth, that john the beloved of jesus is already gone to the paradise of everlasting bliss, passing as few shall do, In Psal. 118. Ser. 20. the fiery sword at the entrance of joy without all stop or tarriance: because the fire of love in his life time had such force in him, that the amending fire after his change should take no hold of him at all, so saith Ambrose. But of this private judgement the Reverend Bede hath a goodly sentence in the fift of his history. Cap. 14. Meminerimus facta & cogitationes nostras non in ventum diffluere, sed ad examen summi judicis cuncta servari, & sive per amicos Angelos in fine nobis ostendenda, sive per hosts. Let us remember (saith he) that all our deeds & thoughts shall abide, & not be carried away with the wind, but be reserved to the examination of the high judge: The souls be not in doubt of their damnation or salvation, till the day of judgement & so shall be laid before our face at our ending, either by our good or adversary Angels. By all which it is evident, that the souls sleep not: (of which error Luther was also noted) nor be reserved in doubt of their damnation, either perpetual or temporal, till the latter day: but straight way receive as they deserved before in their life, either wealth or woeful pains. In this day of our Lord then this Purgatory pains must begin, to all such as have after their Baptism, where they laid the foundation of Christ's faith, builded the works of lesser sins and imperfection, and not washed them a way by penance in their life, nor obtained mercy for the same. The which truth, the places of the Prophet and Apostle before alleged with out all unseemly wrething or wraesting do so plainly bear, that if ours were a sense never heard of before, yet the only comparing of the texts, and necessary circumstances of the letter might rather drive us to that meaning, than any other that they can ever allege or prove. But now, as Catholics ever do, keeping the old meaning and forging no new, giving no other sense then that which the persuasion of all Christian people both learned and simple hath driven from the beginning of our faith down to our days, and framing no other understanding then that which we find expressly in the learning and faith of our fathers both set forth and proved, who is so rude in judgement, or so entangled with any contrary opinion, that will not acknowledge the truth and doctrine every way so compassed with proof and all likelihoods? CAP. VII. 1 THat the judgement of God beginneth at the death of every man and so continueth until the full manifestation thereof in the last day, is clearer by the Scripture of God, then that it needeth the confirmation of man's authority. But that Ambrose is alleged to prove, that every man immediately after his death, doth feel that he must look for in the day of judgement, I marvel to what purpose it is brought in, if it be not to overthrow purgatory. For if it be true, as it must needs be, no man feeleth pain after this life, but he that shall feel it eternally. And surely to the same effect he speaketh in his book de bono mortis where he commendeth the death of the faithful quia deteriorem statum non efficit, sed qualem in singulis invenerit, talem judicio fururo reseruat, & quietè ipsis fovet, & praesentium invidiae subducit, & futurorum expectatione componit. Because (death) maketh not their state worse, but such as it findeth in every man, such it reserveth into the judgement to come, and quietly chierisheth them and both taketh them away from the envy of things present, and settleth them in expectation of things to come. Thus saith Ambrose plainly in this place, what soever he speaketh allegorically of the fiery sword in other places. Well it is evident (you say) that the souls departed sleep not, of which error Luther also was noted. I never hard any man of credit note him thereof, who is well known to have been of a clean contrary judgement: but I read in the acts of the Council of Constance, that Pope john the 23 was condemned for denying the immortality of the soul, the resurrection of the dead and the life everlasting. But if the souls sleep not, than they be awake in purgatory, or if ye reason not so subtly, you mean, that if they be at all in purgatory, they be there immediately after their departure out of their bodies. But how shall we prove, that they come there at all? Forsooth by the sayings of the Prophet and of the Apostle before alleged, which are so plain proof and so evident to be understood, of themselves, that they need none other interpretation. But how plain it is, that they serve nothing to that purpose, I have sufficiently declared already: yet must we further follow the same matter, because here are brought in the authority of the doctors to agreed with M. Allens gloze. 2 But as reason is, and my promise was at the beginning. I will let the good Christian see the words of most notable ancient writers, that he may rejoice his faith to be so surely grounded. First than you shall perceive that S. Augustine expoundeth the text of the prophet Malachi before recited, Cap. 3. for purgatory pains even as I said. I am certain he may much move our adversaries, as one whom they challenge to be patron of some of their opinions: but how unjustly in all points, God knoweth, and in this matter especially you shall now perceive. After the rehearsal of the Prophet's words and well weighing of the matter, he thus writeth. Ex ijs quae dicta sunt videtur evidentius apparere, Lib. 20. de civit. dei. Cap. 25. in illo judicio quasdam quorundam purgatorias poenas futuras. Vbi enim dicitur. Quis substinebit diem introitus eius? aut quis far poterit ut aspiciat eum? quia ipse ingreditur quasi ignis conflatorij, & quasi herba lavantium, & sedebit conflans & emundans sicut argentum & aurum, & emundabit filios Levi, & fundet eos sicut aurum & sicut argentum, quid aliud intelligendum est? dicit tale aliquid & Isaias: Lavabit dominus sordes filiorum & filiarum Zion, & sanguinem emundabit de medio eorum spiritu judicij, & spiritu combustionis. Nisi sortè sic eos dicendum est emundari à sordibus, & eliquari quodammodo, cum ab eis mali per poenale judicium separantur, ut illorum segregatio atque damnatio purgatio sit istorum, quia sine talium de coetero commixtione victuri sunt: sed cum dicit, & emundabit filios Levi, & fundet eos sicut aurum & argentum, & erunt domino offerentes hostias in justicia, & placebit domino sacrificium juda & Jerusalem: Vtique ostendit eos ipsos qui emundabuntur, deinceps in sacrificijs justiciae domino esse placituros: ac per hoc ipsi a sua iniustitia emundabuntur, in qua domino hostiae displicebant. porrò in plena perfectaque justitia ipsi erunt cum mundati fuerint: quid enim acceptius deo tales offerunt quàm seipsos? verum ista quaestio de Purgatorijs poenis, ut diligentius pertractetur in tempus aliud differenda est. thus in English. By the foresaid words in seemeth very evident, that in the time of that judgement there shall be certain Purgatory pains for some sort of men. For when it is said: Who can be able to sustain the day of his coming? who can stand in his sight? because he shall sit trying out and purifying as it were gold and silver, and enter in like the fire of the furnace, and as washers soap: he shall make clean the sons of Levi & shall try them as gold and silver: What other thing by all these words can be meant? Cap. 4. (but purgatory pains.) Namely seeing the prophet Esaie hath the like in these words. God shall wash a way the filth of the sons and daughters of Zion, and purge blood from the midst of them, in the spirit of judgement and fire. Except a man might conveniently say that they shall be washed from filth, and as you would say new fourged, when the wicked by final judgement are severed out of their company: that so their departure and damnation may be the purgation of the rest, because after that day they shall live for ever without the company of the bad. But when the Prophet saith more, that he will cleanse the children of Levy, and purify them as gold and silver, that they may offer their oblations in righteousness, and the sacrifice of juda and Jerusalem shall please our Lord. He ●urely giveth us to wit, that even the same self men which shall be purged, must afterward offer to God the sacrifice of justice, that being once thus amended of their unrighteousness, in which their offerings could not be acceptable unto God, may afterward in pure and perfect justice offer themselves as a most pleasant host and oblation unto our Lord. But this question of purgatory pains I will differ to a further treaty hereafter. All this hath S. Augustine: Whereby we may both acknowledge his mind and the Prophet's meaning: which according to the grace given unto him in the expounding of Scriptures, he hath sought out by conference of that place with other the like out of Esay, by weighing discretely the whole circumstance of the letter, & finally by comparing of the other meaning, which to some might have been reckoned apt and meet for that place. In all which doing he was as far from rash judgement, as our new doctors be from good advisement. But because he referreth us to the further discussing of the same matter afterward, in the named work: it shall be to our purpose not a little, to have this dictors full mind & constant judgement therein. In the xxj. book after much matter uttered, and very deep discussing of the cause, he maketh this grounded Conclusion. Cap. 13. Temporales poenas alij in hac vita tantum, alij post mortem, alij nunc & nunc, veruntamen ante illud saeverissimun, novissimúmque judicium patiuntur. Non autem omnes veniunt in sempiternas poenas quae post illud judicium his sunt futurae, qui post mortem sustinent temporales: nam quibusdam quod in isto non remittitur, remitti in futuro saeculo, id est ne futuri saeculi aeterno supplicio puniantur, iam supra diximus. Temporal pains (that is to say punishment which shall have an end) some men suffer in this life, some other after their death, & other some, both now, & then: But all this before the day of judgement that is the greatest and last of all other judgements: Temporal pains in the next life as well as in this. not all that be temporally punished after their departure come into pains perpetual which shall be after the general day: for we have already declared, that there be certain which have remission in an other world, that is to say a pardon that they be not punished everlastingly, that had not forgiveness in this. By these words we may be assured, that as in the next life there be pains endless and perpetual for the wicked, so in the same world after our end here, there must needs be some transitory punishment and correction, for such of the mean sort as shall afterward be saved. And again he speaketh (as I take it) of the fire of Conflagration that shall in the latter day purge some that be mean, and waste other that be wicked, and send them from that present punishment, to further eternal damnation. I will recite his own words, that ye may perceive the perpetual constancy of this excellent man's mind in this matter. It shall also be a testimony sufficient for the understanding of S. Paul's words now before alleged. Si aedificaverit super fundamentum, ligna, foenum, Serm. 3. in Psal. 103. stipulam, id est mores saeculares fundamento fidei suae super aedificaverit, tamen si in fundamento sit Christus, & primum locum ipse habeat in cord, & ei nihil omnino anteponatur, portentur & tales: Veniet caminus & incendet ligna, foenum, stipulam: ipse inquit saluus erit, sic tamen quasi per ignem. Hoc aget caminos: alios in sinistram ●eparabit, alios in dexteram quodammodo eliquabit. If any man erect upon the foundation wood, hay, or straw, that is to say worldly affections upon the groundewarke of his saith: if yet Christ be in the foundation, and bear the greatest stroke in his heart, so that nothing be preferred before him, such may well be borne withal, for the fiery furnace shall come & burn the wood, hay, and stooble, & shall be saved, as the Apostle saith, though it be for all that through the fire, that furnace than shall part some to the lift hand, and try forth other (if a man may so term it) to the right hand. 2 The first place is given unto Augustine, because he is in a manner confessed to be a patron of some of our opinions, though he be not of all. This doctor in his 20 book de civitate dei, is said to expound the text of Melachy as M. Allen hath done of the pains of purgatory. But read the place with indifferent judgement who so can and will, and he shall plainly perceive, that Augustine speaketh not of M. Allens purgatory, which is said to be immediately after men's death, but of certain purging pains, which he supposeth some shall suffer at the last day of God's general judgement, and yet he is so uncertain of that exposition, that he doubteth whether this purging, whereof the Prophet speaketh, may not be understood of that separation, which shallbe of the godly from the wicked in that day. Howbeit 21. book cap. 13. of the same work, he concludeth very clearly, that some suffer temporal pains after this life. This may not be denied: but how unconstant Augustine was in his error, appeareth by this, that sometime he doubteth whether there be any such matter, other whiles he seemeth plainly to deny all other receptacles of the souls departed beside heaven and hell. For both in his Enchiridion ad Laurentium cap. 69. & de octo Dulcitij in quaestionibus quaest. 1. he sayeth, that as it is not incredible, that such a matter may be after this life, so it may be doubted, whether it be so or no. Likewise in his book de fide & operibus cap. 16. he hath these words speaking of that text to S. Paul 1 Corinthians. 3. Sive ergo in hac vita tantum homines ista patiuntur, sive etiam post hanc vitam talia judicia subsequantur, non abho●ret quantum arbitror a ratione veritatis, iste intellectus huius sententiae. Whether men suffer these things in this life only, or whether such judgements follow after this life also: the understanding of this sentence abhorreth not as I think, from the way of truth. Again in Hypognost. contra Pelagianos lib. 5. he acknowledgeth the kingdom of heaven for to receive the godly, and hell fire for the punishment of the wicked, but a third place saith he we are altogether ignorant of, neither do we find it in the holy Scriptures. He writeth against the Pelagians, that imagined a third place, for the rest of infants, that were not baptized, but the same reason serveth as well against the popish purgatory, because we find it not in the holy Scriptures: to the like effect he writeth de verbis Apostoli sermon 14. where he acknowledgeth the right hand and the left hand of God, that is the kingdom of heaven, and the pains of hell: the middle place he utterly denieth, wherein infants may be placed because there is no mention thereof in the Gospel. But to return to the third place, alleged by M. Allen, out of S. Augustine, ser. 3. Psal. 103. How would he have us to take it for a confirmation of his exposition of S. Paul's words, touching the pains of purgatory, which are said to begin immediately after this life, when he himself confesseth that it is to be understood of the universal conflagration of the world at the day of judgement? Thus you see that here were great brags made, that Augustine's authority maintained his interpretation of those 2. texts of Scripture, concerning popish purgatory, which he himself contendeth to begin as soon as men are dead: When Augustine in both those places (as the plain circumstance of the place declareth the one, and the confession of M. Allen admitteth the other) speaketh of a kind of purging which he did think should not be, before the whole world were purged at once by fire. 3 And as S. Augustine taketh these base substances of wood, hay, or stubble, to signify worldly affections and secular desires: so S. Ambrose noteth by the same, vain, curious, & unprofitable doctrines: In come. super hunc lo cum. the dross of which frivolous matter much corrupting the sincerity of our faith, must be separated from the foundation, by the fire of the said furnace. For this is a general doctrine without exception, that what so ever be understanded by those light matters, whether it be a difformity in life or in doctrine, that only defileth and not utterly destroyeth the faith which is the foundation, nor wasteth the love due unto our Lord, what so ever (I say) that be, it must be tried out by the spirit of judgement and fire. Briefly then, thus S. Ambrose expounding the Apostles words. He shall be saved by fire, writeth, In comen tarijs super 3. c. 1. ad Cor. Ostendit illum saluum quidem futurum, sed poenam ignis passurum, ut per ignem purgatus fiat saluus, & non sicut perfidi aeterno igne in perpetuum torqueatur. The Apostle declareth that he shall be saved, and yet suffer the pains of fire: that being purged by that fire, he may so be saved, and not as the unfaithful, perpetually be tormented in everlasting fire. 3 As he saith little out of Ambrose so it is soon answered: first it maketh little for him, that Ambrose expoundeth the wood, hay, and stubble, vain curious and unprofitable doctrine, for that proveth, that only the work of teachers shall pass the trial of this fire, which is the judgement of God's spirit the true discerner of doctrines, but yet Ambrose expoundeth the fire to be a purging and a punishment. But whether it be in this life or after this life, you have no ground out of this place of Ambrose, and therefore it finally availeth your cause. And that Ambrose allowed no purging after this life, is plain enough by those words which he writeth upon the 40. Psalm: For where the prophet saith he shall be made happy on earth: Ambrose inferreth, Bene addidit in terra, quia nisi hic mundatus fuerit, ibi mundus esse non poterit. He hath well added on earth, for if he be not cleansed here, he can not be cleansed there. 4 This temporal torment of the next life S Hierom very fitly calleth, A judgement of God joined with mercy, the continuance whereof, or other circumstances to serve men's curiosity he dare not define, being contented out of doubt to believe that certain sinners be in grievous torments, and yet not without hope of mercy these be that holy man's words in his commentaries upon the Prophet Esai, Cap. ulr. & in primum Cap. Eze. in illud vidi quasi speciem electri talking by occasion, of the continuance of purgatory pains. Quid nos solius Dei scientiae debemus relinquere, cuius non solum misericordiae sed & tormenta in pondere sunt: & novit quem, quomodo, & quandiu debeat judicare. Solumque dicamus quod humanae convenit fragilitati, Domine ne in furore tuo arguas me, neque in ira tua corripias me: & sicut diaboli omniumque negatorum atque impiorum qui dixerunt in cord suo non est Deus, credimus aeterna tormenta, sic peccatorum atque impiorum, & tamen Christianorum, quorum opera in igne purganda sunt atque probanda, moderatam arbitramur & mixtam clementiae sententiam judicis. In English: We must commit this secret to God's wisdom and knowledge, whose not only mercy, but judgement and just punishment be poised. For he right well knoweth whom, how, and what time he aught to punish. And let us only as it becometh our frailty cry out: Lord in thy furious wrath argue me not, neither correct me in thy anger: for as we believe the eternal damnation and torment of the devil with the forsaken sort and wicked, that said in their heart there is no God, so we suppose, that upon sinners and evil men, being yet christian men, whose works shall be both purged and tried by fire, shallbe pronounced a moderate sentence mixed with mercy and clemency. Lo here, this worthy writer granteth there be two sorts of punishments by fire, one of the damned spirits and wicked men eternal, and an other of certain that in their life were sinners, & some wicked men too, who yet being in Christ's Church and using the benefit of the blessed Sacraments, had their sins so forgiven, that not purging their wicked life by sufficient penance in their days, they must of necessity enter into the torment of transitory fire, there to be punished not in rage and rigour without pity, but in anger of fatherly correction joined with clemency and much mercy. 4 The last place is reserved for S. jeronym, who seemeth to give a perfect testimony for M. Allens behoof, if he be no further examined, then M. Allen rehearseth his words. but how little they make for him if they be duly discussed, except it be to prove jeronym an Origenist, and so to discredit his testimony, I will stand to the judgement of all reasonable Papists, that will vouchsafe to weigh the matter with me, and not be wilfully deceived. For first it is manifest, that jeronym writing upon these words of Esay, whose worm shall not die nor the fire be extinguished, speaketh of the last judgement in the end of the world, and then rehearseth the arguments of them, that thought the punishment of that worm and fire should be ended after long time, and great torments: which thing jeronym saith must be left to the only knowledge of God, &c, whom he confesseth to be a merciful judge, and so it may be, that he will release the eternal torments that wicked Christians have deserved after the day of judgement, but he defineth nothing. And as for M. Allens purgatory, which he defendeth to begin straight way after men's departure hence, he speaketh never a word. But rather of the purging fire of God's judgement, which some of the origenists did extend to the purifying and saving of all Christians, were they never so wicked, from whose opinion he seemeth not altogether to descent, though he do not plainly allow it. And that he writeth upon the first of Ezechiel, to which place M. Allen sendeth us, he speaketh of the providence of God, which so governeth the afflictions of his Saints, that that which seemed to be a punishment is converted into a medicine. As children imagine that spirits and goblins be in every dark corner: So M. Allen never readeth fire and torment, but by and by he dreameth of purgatory. Origen is alleged for our cause, upon whose error in a matter somewhat appertaining to our purpose, S Augustins judgement is more largely sought: and therewith it is declared by testimony of divers holy authors, what sins be chief purged in that temporal fire. CAP. VIII. 1 THese three noble learned men might right well satisfy our search, for the sense of the texts both of the Prophet and Apostle, and persuade any reasonable man in the whole cause: yet for that there be ●ome that mean not to relent in their lewd opinions, for light proffers, I will store them with testimonies. Origenes, one of great antiquity, in many places of his works understandeth both the said texts of Malachi and S. Paul in the like sort: by whom we may well take a great taste of the time and Church where he lived, what men of wisdom & virtue then judged of things, which now of fools be contemned, and of heretics condemned also. Homil. 12. But namely upon the Prophet jeremy in these words: Si post fundamentum jesu Christi, non solum in tuo cord aurum, argentum, & lapidem preciosum superae dificaveris, verum & ligna, foenum, & stipulam, quid tibi vis fieri cum anima seiuncta fuerit a corpore? utrum ne ingredi vis in sancta cum lignis tuis, & foeno, & stipula, ut polluas regnum Dei? an propter lignum, foenum, & stipulam, foris residere vis, & pro auro, argento, lapide precioso, nil mercedis accipere? sed neque hoc aequum est. Quid ergo sequitur, nisi ut primum propter lignum ignis tibi detur, qui consumat foenum, lignum, & stipulam. etc. If upon the foundation, which is Christ jesus, thou do not only build gold, silver, and precious stone, but also wood, hay, and straw, what dost thou look for after thy death? wilt thou entre into the holy places with thy wood, hay, and stooble, and defile the kingdom of God? or else for thy wood, hay, and straw, thou wilt abide forth: and so liese the reward of thy gold, silver, and precious stone? But that were no reason: then there is no way but one, first to receive fire for to consume and burn out thy wood, hay, and stooble: and then afterward to receive for thy better works, the reward of salvation. so saith Origen. Whose judgement if any man mistrust in this point, because he erred in other, let him learn to miscredit only his or other men's singular opinions & private fantasies, wherein they disagreed from the residue of the common body of Christ his Church, Basil. Cap. penult. de Spiritu sancto. & not contemn in any man the confirmation of the universal sense, which he findeth in the uniform doctrine of all other Christian Catholics. In deed it was so evident, that this Purgatory fire of which the Apostle speaketh, should be in the other life, that this learned man afterward, leaving the meaning which the holy Church had opened for the proof of certain transitory punishment in the next world for meaner offenders, would of his own head go forward (which is the bane of many a goodly wit) and maintain that all grievous crimes, Vincent lyr. and most wicked manners might be purged by this fire after death, and the parties in time saved, so that they had faith for their foundation: whereby (as S. Augustine noteth of him) he made only faith to save the wicked, De fide & operibus Cap. 16. without repentance or good works. CAP. VIII. 1 whether M. Allen knew that his former witnesses did not agreed, or that he would give a taste of his bountiful dealing in pressing us with more testimonies than needed, he will now produce Origen, whom though he confess to be infamous for heresy, yet even of his error, he will not doubt but to ground his purgatory. Origen will have men pass through a fire, but to make it plain that he meaneth not the fire of Popish purgatory, we shall perceive by other places of his writings, that he speaketh of such a fire, as all men be they never so just, shall pass through, affirming that all men have need of purifications after his life, ye Peter & Paul and such like in Num. Hom. 25. & in Psal. 36. Hom. 3. But all men pass not through the Pope's purgatory. I pass over here the gross allegory, that he maketh of the blood of Devils by which a man shallbe washed and purified in the kingdom of God, that being so purified and made clean he may enter into the city of God. Num. Hom. 25. But how soever he doteth about passage through fire and purifications after this life, yet he affirmeth in an other place that the day of Christian men's death is the deposition of pain, whereby it appeareth that either he was not constant with himself, or else that origen's purgatory was a painless purgatory. His words are in job Lib. 3. Nam priores diem nativitatis celebrabant, unam vitam diligentes, & aliam post hanc non sperantes. Nunc vero nos non nativitatis diem celebramus, cum sit dolorum atque tentationum introitus, sed mortis diem celebramus, utpote omnium dolorum depositionem, atque omnium tentationum effugationem. The former men did celebrated, the day of nativity, as they that loved but one life, and hoped for none after this. But now we do not celebrated the day of Nativity, seeing it is the entrance of sorrows and temptations, but we celebrated the day of death, as that which is a deposition of all griefs, and an avoiding of all temptations. 2 Against which pernicious error the said doctor often writeth: and proveth that this place of S. Paul can not make for the delivery of the wicked or grievous offenders in any case. And being somewhat urged by the adversaries arguments, or else because he would take all hold from them which they seemed to have by that scripture he seeketh them out an other meaning, not contrary at all to the truth of Purgatory: but yet farther of their purpose. Declaring that this fire might (as he saith there) signify some grief of this world, for the abating of some inordinate affections that be found in many even towards things otherwise lawful. Though he was very loath to avouch this as the undoubted meaning of that scripture, being pleaced with any other whereby they should not be forced to deny the eternal damnation of impenitent sinners: as in deed he never gave this meaning but where the origenists did urge him, and in such places only where he answereth to origen's arguments, for in other places where he was free from contention with the said sects, he ever in express terms grounded the doctrine of Purgatory upon the Apostles words. Yea even in the same answer to the adversary he was so mindful of God's justice in the world to come, and feared jest he might give any occasion of the contrary error to deny purgatory, that in the same talk with the origenists, he confesseth there might well be some grief in the next life also, which might likewise purge and deliver a man from the love of transitory things, wherewith the best sort of men be in this our misery often very sore laden. Although in deed he doubted whether any such affection and love of things dear unto us in this world, as of wife, kindred, acquaintance, Ench. Cap. 67. & 68 or such like might remain in man after his departure hence, & so there in time to be lessened, and in fine utterly removed or worn away, by some grief and sorrow which in the next life might by the lack of the said things, vex and molest his mind. As we see it commonly fall in this present life, where man by diverse profitable troubles of this world, learneth to set light by things, which in order he might well love: being for all that more merit to forsake them. And of this point S. Augustine hath these words in one place: Ench. Cap. 69. Tale aliquid fieri etiam post hanc vitam incredibile non est: & utrum ita sit quaeri potest, some such thing may well be after this life, and thereof question may be made. By which words, the heretics of our time either of ignorance or of malice (which be ever yoked together in such men) have borne the simple in hand, This clearkly argument our English apology urgeth. that this holy doctor doubted of Purgatory. A little hold will serve such wringers: because he doubted of it, they believe, as they think by good authority, that with out doubt there is none at all. If S. Augustine had but said, belike there is no such mean place in the life following: marry sir then they might have picked more matter of their infidelity: & yet of that speech determining no certainty, there had been no great cause why they should have forsaken the judgement of God's Church. But now he so doubteth, that he findeth more cause to think there should be one, then that any man might gather upon his words, that there should be none at all. Not nor he never went so far good reader, as to make any doubt of Purgatory pains, for punishment of sins committed in the world. For in all the same books where he hath the like saying, and almost in the very same places, he holdeth as a matter of faith, and to be believed of all Christian men, that the prayers of the lieving do release some of their pains in the next life. And he constantly as all other Catholics ever did, confesseth that the sins or unclean works of the living not duly by penance wiped away in this world, must be mended after our death: although it be very doubtful in deed, whether there be any worldly affections left in man's mind untaken up by death and resolution of the body and the soul, the care and remembrance whereof, might be afterward by sorrow both purged and punished. And this to be his meaning, and that he termeth here purgatory, the grief which a man hath in losing that which he loved in this mortal life, his own words testify in every of those works in which he keepeth this combat with origenists. Lib. 21. de Civit. 26. In one place thus: Quod sine illicienti amore non habuit, sine dolore urente non perdet: & ex earum rerum amissione tantum necesse est ut urat dolour, quantum haeserat amor. That which by tickling love was kept, can not be lost with out burning grief. And look how fast the love of such things did clean to man's mind, so far must sorrow burn. So in the like talk with the said origenists, Cap. 16. in his book de fide & operibus, he followeth the same signification of Purgatory. Haec igitur (saith he) quoniam affectu dilecta carnali non sine dolore amittuntur, qui sic ea habent, in eorum amissione passi detrimentum, per ignem quendam doloris perveniunt ad salutem: these things being by carnal affection loved, be not lightly lost without grief, and therefore those that thus be affectionate, feel loss in parting from them: and so come to salvation through the fire of sorrow. such a sadness the young man that demanded of our master the way to heaven, conceived strait, Matth. 19 when motion was only made, of distribution of his goods. Who being otherwise in the state of salvation, and to be borne withal, because he was a just man and lacked not the foundation of his faith, yet the very loss or leaving of his goods, was unto him (if he continued in that affection) a wonderful great torment, & as S. Augustine here calleth it, a kind of purgatory: the which, perfect men, that esteem all the trash of this world as dirt and dung to win Christ, feel not at all: whom the doctor supposeth therefore, to take no damage in the loss of things which they so little loved. Now in every place where this exposition is found (as I think it is never in all his works, lightly, but in conference with the origenists) he always addeth that the like fire of sorrow may also correct the affections even of the departed, but yet whether it be so or not, he counteth it a question of probable disputation, rather than any matter of faith, as it is in deed very doubtful whether any such unordinate affection may remain untaken up after man's departure, which by grief and sorrow in the other world may be in time wholly consumed. And further he never doubted. For in that famous work of the City of God, Cap. 24. lib. 21. with in two Chapters of that doubt made of this kind of purgation, which we now have declared, he uttereth his faith with God's Church, of that great torment and just punishment of sinful life, not sufficiently purged by penance in our time, which he calleth the Amending fire: and thus he saith there. Tales etiam constat, ante judicij diem per poenas temporales quas eorum spiritus patiuntur purgatos, receptis corporibus aeterni ignis supplicijs non tradendos, etc. It is certain (saith he) Constat, (which is no word of doubtefullnesse) that such men being purged by the temporal pains, which their souls do suffer before the day of judgement, shall not after they have received their bodies again, be committed to the torment of the everlasting fire. Vide quaest. 8. ad Dulcitium. This he uttereth in the same place where he doubteth of the other kind of purgation: as he confesseth himself to be uncertain of the whole exposition, refusing none at all that were agreeable to faith, and would not help the falsehood which he then refuted. In his Enchir: where he disputeth against the same error, Cap. 110. he so little doubteth, that he calleth Purgatory damnation though not perpetual, as that which might be both eased and utterly removed by the sacrifice & suffragies of the Church. And thus did that grave author withstand Origen then, whose followers were as it may be thought very busy and troublesome in those days and long after. But yet his sure staff against that error was this, and the most common defence of all Catholics, that the temporal pains in the next world could never deliver the great & grievous sinners that died with out repentance or remission of their sins, from everlasting death: because that torment was prepared for the small offences which we call venial sins: by which the holy Apostle meant, under the names of the base substances of wood, Serm. 4. de sanctis. hay, and straw, as these words of much importance may well declare: There be diverse (saith he) that misconstruing these words of S. Paul before alleged, De haeres. ad quod 43. by over vain security & confidence deceive themselves, believing that if they do build capital and grievous crimes upon the foundation which is Christ, they shall be purged through fire, and themselves afterward escape to everlasting life: but this understanding, good brethren, must be corrected. For those that so flatter themselves, shamefully do beguile themselves. For that fire which the Apostle speaketh of in these words: He shall be saved through fire, purgeth not mortal sins, but smaller offences only. 2 Now followeth a confuse and tedious discourse of Augustine's judgement, touching origen's error, but it may be reduced unto these two points. First why Augustine would not interpret that place of Paul. 1. Cor. 3. of purgatory: and secondly whether Augustine were in any doubt at all of purgatory, between which two questions is begotten a third conclusion, that purgatory serveth only for venial and light offences. To the first he seemeth to say, that Augustine refuseth to understand that place of purgatory, either because he cold not otherwise withstand the arguments of the Originests, or else because he would take all hold away from them, rather than that it was his constant judgement, because in other places, where he was free from contention he ever grounded purgatory upon that place. How honourable this answer is for Augustine, or how beneficial for Allen, using Augustine's authority, I refer to be judged of all them that be wise and learned. To the second he saith, that Augustine never doubted, whether there were any pains of purgatory after this life, but whether men after their death retained any carnal affections. I will once again rehearse the words of Augustine, that all indifferent, men may judge, whether M. Allens answer may stand with his saying in a reasonable meaning. Tale aliquid etiam post hanc vitam fieri incredibile non est: & utrum ita sit quaeri potest. It is not uncredible, that some such thing is done after this life, and whether it be or not, it may be inquired of, that is (saith M. Allen) whether men have any carnal affection to their wives, children etc. after this life, it may be a question. But Augustine goeth further in the same place and saith: Et aut inveniri aut later, nonnullos fideles, per ignem quendam purgatorium quanto magis minúsue, bona pereuntia dilexerunt, tanto tardius citiusque salvari. Non tamen tales de quibus dictum est, quod regnum Dei non possidebunt, nisi convenientes poenitentibus eadem crimina remittantur. And either it may be found, or still be hid, that some of the faithful, by a certain purgatory fire, by how much they have more or less loved transitory Gods, by so much later or sooner, are they saved, but yet not such, of whom it is saved, that they shall not possess the kingdom of God, except the same crimes be forgiven them being sufficiently repentant for them. These words are so plain against M. Allens new forged meaning, that I suppose he never read them in Augustine's own books, but only received his notes of some elder Papists, that had spent more time in gathering them, but had not such audacity to utter them as M. Allen, of which conjecture, there is no small likelihood soon after. I omit his foolish supposition, if S. Augustine had but said: belike there is no such mean place in the life following. etc. I have already with out M. Allens supposition showed, that Augustine some where said, he knew neither third place, nor mean place, nor none could find in the holy Scriptures, nor Gospel of God. Nevertheless with much wrangling to defend the uncerteinety or unconstancy of Augustine's judgement touching purgatory, we have won so much, that purgatory serveth to purge none but very small and light offences. But how long shall we hold this? Scarce to the latter end of this chapter. For in the next chapter, he findeth out a shift to wring in heinous and deadly sins also. For else the release of small faults, would not be half so gainful. 3 To this purpose S. hierom's words, or the reverend Bedes whether you will, (for either of their grave authorities shall serve my turn) do wholly agreed in the exposition of this sentence, In Cap. 11. Proverb. Mortuo homine impio non erit ultra spes. A wicked man being once departed, is past recovery or hope. Where the author writeth thus. Heu misere hoc pertransit Origenes, qui post universal judicium vitam credidit omnibus impijs dandam, Notandum autem quod etsi impijs post mottem spes veniae non sit, sunt tamen qui de levioribus peccatis, cum quibus obligati defuncti sunt: post mortem possunt absolui. Origen passed over this text pitifully, that believed all the wicked should have at length life everlasting, after the day a● general judgement. Yet this is to be noted, that although there be no hope of pardon for the wicked after their death, yet there be certain which may be released of lighter trespasses, in the bond of which they departed out of this world. And so doth Oecumenius a Greek author, expound S. Paul's words of venial sins: for the purgation of which, he doubteth not but that there is a fire of judgement in the life to come. Super. 3. Cap. 1. ad Cor. Ipse autem saluabitur: quis? Qui aurum, argentum, lapides preciosoes superae dificaverit: cum enim dixisset de eo quod mercedem accipiet, nunc qualem mercedem aperit: salutem scilicet. Saluabitur autem non sine dolore, ut par est salvari per ignem transeuntem, & adhaerentes sibi leaves maculas purgantem. thus in English. By whom is it spoken when he saith, he shall be saved? By him it is spoken that buildeth on the foundation, gold, silver and precious stones. For when he had told us that such should have a reward, now he openeth what that reward should be: to wit, salvation. And yet he must not be saved without all pain, as there is no cause why he should, that must pass through fire, and thereby be purged of the smaller spots which stick by him. In the same sense doth Theodoretus both expound the words of the Apostle, and utter his judgement of Purgatory also: Super. ca 3. Malach. and almost the rest of all the Latin or Greek writers, which my purposed brevity with plentiful proof otherwise forceth me to leave to the studious reader. 3 Next ensueth the authority of jeronym or Bede, or perhaps, neither of them both, but yet of some old writer, which holdeth, that from light sins, men may be absolved after their death by pains, prayers, alms, or masses. This was a writer for M. Allens tooth, but neither of antiquity, nor credit sufficient to carry away this cause. The judgement of Oecumenius and Theodoretus, though they were writers about that time, when corruption of doctrine had greatly prevailed, yet are they not clear for popish purgatory, which the greek Church although they pray for the dead, yet would never agreed to acknowledge. 4 One place more I will only add out of Remigius, because he learnedly may knit up the place, by joining both the Prophet and Apostles words together, upon which we have stand so long. In 3. cap. Malach. Thus that good author writeth. Ipse enim quasi ignis conflans & peccators exurens, Ignis enim in conspectu eius ardebit & in circuitu eius tempestas valida. Hoc igne consumuntur lignum, foenum, stipula. Nec solum erit quasi ignis, sed etiam quasi herba fullonum, qua vestes nimium sordibus infectae lavantur. Porro his qui graviter peccaverunt erit ignis conflans & exurens: illis vero qui levia peccata commiserunt erit herba fullonum. Hinc per Isaiam dicitur, si abluerit dominus. etc. Qui enim habent sordes levium peccatorum spiritu judicij purgantur: qui vero sanguinem habent, hoc est gravioribus peccatis infecti sunt, spiritu ardoris exurentur & purgabuntur. Et sedebit conflans & emundans argentum, & colabit eos quasi aurum & argentum, hoc est intellectum & colloquium: ut quicquid mixtum est stanno vel plumbo, camino domini exuratur: & quod purum aurum est & argentum remaneat. Et purgabit filios Levi: In filijs Levi omnem sacerdotalem ordinem intelligimus, a quibus judicium incipiet, quia scriptum est: tempus est ut judicium incipiat a domo dei: 1. Petri. 4. & alibi: à sanctuario meo incipite. Si autem sacerdos flammis purgandus est & colandus, quid de caeteris dicendum est, quos nullum commendat privilegium sanctitatis? These golden words have this sense. He shall come as the goldsmiths' fire, burning sinners. For in his sight a flame shall rise, and a mighty tempest round about him: by which fire, our wood, hay, and stooble, shall be wasted and worn away. With that, he shall be like the clensers' herb, whereby garments very much stained be purged. To all those that have grievously offended, he will be a burning and melting fire: but to the light sinners, he shall be as the washers herb. Which difference the prophet Esay noteth thus: If our Lord wipe away the filth of the daughters of Zion, Cap. 4. and blood from the midst of Israel, in the spirit of judgement and fire. For such as have only the spots of venial sins, they may be amended by the spirit of judgement, but men of blood, to wit the more grievous offenders, must be tried by fire. And he shall sit casting and purifying silver, and shall purge men as gold and silver be purified: that is to say our thoughts, understanding, and words, from impurity and uncleanness, I call stannum pewter, moved by the circumstance of the letter. 1. Pet. 4. as from pewter and lead, by God's furnace shall exactly be purged: and nothing shall be left but as pure as gold and fine silver. And he shall purge the sons of Levi: that is the order of priesthood, where this heavy judgement shall first begin. For so it is written. Time is now, that judgement begin at the house of God: and again: Begin at my sanctuary. If the priest must be purged and fined, what shall we dame of other, whom privilege of holy ordre doth not commend or help? thus far goeth the author in conference of diverse scriptures. Who, with the rest of all the holy fathers that compassed their senses within the unity of Christ's Church, hath found by evident testimony of sundry scriptures, the pains of purgatory: which the busy heads of our time by vain bragging of scriptures, in singular arrogancy of their own wits, can never find. 4 Last of all here is vaunt made of the testimony of Remigius, as though he were a new author, and perhaps M. Allen in his notes, found him so, but it is nothing else but the saying of jeronym almost word for word upon 3. Malach, 3. which before we have showed sufficiently to be meant of the judgement that Christ should exercise by his doctrine, at his first coming, and nothing at all pertaining to purgatory. And therefore these golden words (as you call them M. Allen) have a leaden exposition, when they be drawn from the preaching of the Gospel, to the maintenance of purgatory. A further declaration of this point, for the better understanding of the doctors words. Wherein it is opened how purgatory is ordained for mortal sins: & how for smaller offences who are like to feel that grief, & who not at all. CAP. IX. 1 ANd I think they now have small advantage, by the exception of origen's testimony: by occasion whereof, such light is found for our cause, that we now by goodly authority have both found the placies alleged plainly to prove purgatory, and also what sins it namely purgeth, and what men after their death may be amended thereby. That not only the bore truth, but some necessary circumstances to the studious of the truth, have been here by just occasion opened, and all error wholly removed. Except this point may somewhat stay the reader, that heareth in some places the pains of Purgatory to be both a punishment for grievous sins, and a purgation of lighter trespasses with all: and yet that it now may appear the contrary, by the mind of some learned authors, who expressly make that pain as a remedy only for venial sins, and not to appertain at all to the capital and deadly crimes that man often times doth commit: Therefore to be as plain as may be necessary for the unlearned, or any other that is godly curious in things much tending to the quiet rest of man's conscience, it is to be noted: that this ordinary justice of God in the life following for the purgation of the elect, A mortal sin not remitted in this life is not discharged by purgatory. can not discharge any man of mortal sin, which was not pardoned before in the Church militant upon earth. And therefore what crime so ever deserveth damnation, and was not in man's life remitted, it can not by purgatory pains be released in the next: because it deserveth death everlasting, and stayeth the offender from the kingdom of heaven for ever: no pain temporal in this world or the next but Christ's passion alone, (the benefit whereof is not by the sufferers will, extended to any that sinneth unto death) being able to satisfy for the same. As often then as thou hearest any Catholic man affirm purgatory to punish or purge grievous and deadly offences, be assured his meaning of the temporal pain due unto wicked men and their sins, after their bond and debt of everlasting death, with the very fault itself, be in God's Church remitted. For as S. Augustine saith, A deadly sin remitted is in case of a venial sin. De vera & falsa penitent. ca 18. a mortal sin forgiven, is becomne a venial trespass, and so deserveth no more pain than a venial sin, which by transitory punishment may be fully and perfitly released: thus he saith. Quaedam enim sunt peccata quae mortalia sunt, & in poenitentia fiunt venialia, non tamen statim sanata. There be sins (saith he) which being deadly of their own nature, be yet by penance made venial, though not always strait healed. Then by this rule, what so ever is spoken of venial sins or the purgation thereof: it is meant both by the small offences which of their own nature are venial: and also of the greater, so that they be forgiven in God's Church before: whereby they are become venial as the other, and deserve proportionaly as the other: and may be taken away (as the same man affirmeth) either in this world or the next, Ench. ca 71. by the same remedies as the other, though not always so speedily. CAP. IX. 1 NO marvel but you must crow like a cock of the game, you have obtained such a noble victory out of origen's error, and specially you have discovered such a solemn secret to the young petits of popery, that only venial sins are cleansed by purgatory, that they are much beholding to you. But jest your kitchen should be cold if none but venial sins should pass through the heat of purgatory, you have found out a subtle shift, how to bring mortal sins also through the same pikes of purgatory, for discharge of which you know men will bestow more cost, then for release of those, that with only sprinkling of holy water, as you wot well, may be washed away. Therefore mortal sins must be remitted in this life, and then they may be purged in the fire of purgatory, as being now become in the case of venial sins. O deep mysteries revealed out of the bottomless pit, which have no ground at all in the word of God, but are manifestly overthrown thereby, even from the foundations. For the foundation of this doctrine, is the distinction of venial and mortal sins, whereas the word of God plainly determineth, that every sin is mortal and deserveth eternal death, seem it never so small. Cursed is every one that abideth not in all things that are written in the law to fulfil them. Deu. 27. The soul that sinneth shall die. Eze. 18. The reward of sin is death. Rom. 6. And as for that distinction, which S. john maketh of a sin to death, a sin not to death, hath nothing common with that of the papists, for all sin that by the mercy of God is pardonable, he calleth a sin not unto death, for which God is entreated that giveth life to them that have so sinned. And that sin he counteth unto death, which is irremissible, as obstinate & wilful apostasy. Heb. 6. blasphemy against the holy ghost. Math. 12. etc. for which it is not lawful io pray. Thus by judgement of God's word, are all sins mortal which Papists call venial, and all that they count mortal, by God's spirit are counted venial. For by the justice of God, all sins are mortal, but by his mercy, they are all pardonable, except that sin unto death, whereof S. john speaketh. 1. joan. 5. But to return to M. Allens shift, and to examine whether it will satisfy the judgement of those old writers, which affirm that only small and light offences are cleansed by the fire of purgatory. M. Allen saith, mortal sins become venial, by remission. The Scripture teacheth that sins forgiven are not imputed at all. But M. Allens doctrine is, that remission of sins doth not take sins away but only changeth their nature, from mortal to venial, yea he is not ashamed to vouch Augustine to warranty, as though he should say, that a mortal sin forgiven, is become a venial trespass, etc. If all men were blind, this fellow would play trimly with their noses, when he will be so bold with all men that can see: Augustine's words as he citeth them in Latin are these. Quaedam enim sunt peccata quae mortalia sunt, & in poenitentia fiunt venialia, that is, there are some sins which are deadly of their own nature, but by repentance they are made venial. I have translated them as he doth, saving that he calleth poenitentia penance which I, to avoid the ambiguity of the english word, as it is taken by the Papists, have turned repentance. Now is it all one to say, that such sins as of their own nature deserve death, may yet be pardoned to him that repenteth? which is the manifest meaning of Augustine's words, and that which M. Allen fathereth upon him, as though he said, a mortal sin forgiven is become a venial trespass? Again this doctor's words are plain of light and small offences, and not of heinous and great offences, that by pardon are made little offences. 2 Well then, to close up briefly, all this have we found by these scriptures alleged: that being diverse degrees of men, Purgatory appertaineth but to one sort. First not to such as lack the faith of Christ, for they having no foundation are already judged: neither to such as have not builded upon the foundation, but rather defaced it with works of death and devilish doctrine. For all these must like widdred branches be cast into the fire, not to be purged, but utterly wasted. There be yet other that keep their foundation fast, and work there upon both gold and silver, but yet abased and somewhat defiled by the mixture of other infirmities not sufficiently redressed in this life: these must of necessity by God's ordinance, suffer the Purgation by fire: that their works purified and amended by the sentence of his just judgement, may at length by mercy and grace bring them to their desired end. Now the perfect estate, which, having this groundewarcke, and building thereupon nothing for the most part, but the tried fine works of heavenly doctrine and perfect charity, can not fear the fire, as in whom it shall find no matter of waste. For if any dross of seculare desires or worldly weakness, was in their frailty contracted, their fructefull penance in their life, washed that away by the force of Christ's blood, before the day of our Lord great and fearful, came upon them: Naum. 1. In which case God will not punish twice for one fault, nor enter into judgement with such, as have judged themselves to his hand. 1. Cor. 11. These therefore thus guarded by God's grace, in whom only they challenge this Privilege, can not feel any danger, their works (as S. Paul saith) abiding the brounte of the fire, though they were in place of torment with the rest. For if such do pass the fiery sword, before they enter into the joys of heaven, yet they shall even there be so shadowed, that to them it can neither be any whit molestious, nor one moments stay from the reward of their pure golden works, which by fire can not perish. For of such, we must believe with God's Church, that they go strait to heaven upon their departure, with out stay or punishment in the next life. Although Christ only, of his own force, being not subject to any spot of sin, did pass this fire: and enter into heaven, the eternal gates opening themselves unto him as to the king of glory. Who being before in the place of pains also, yet could not possibly be touched thereby, as the Apostle saith. Act. 2. And that is S. Ambrose his meaning (as I suppose) when he said. unus ille ignem hunc sentire non potuit. Christ only was he, that could not feel this fire. He speaketh of the fire through which even the good must pass, before they come to eternal joy. Where he doubteth not to avouch, that many a man that thinks himself gold, and is taken so to be of others too, shall yet there be proved full of dross and impurity, long to be cleansed before his final freedom and delivery: and yet to be saved through fire. But for those that be in deed perfect men, as john the beloved of jesus, and Peter with the rest, this holy doctor was so sure of Purgatory, that he thought these also to go through the same: and yet the fiery flame to have given place as it did to the three children, Dan. 4. and as S. Augustine supposeth it shall do in the general conflagration to the bodies of virtuous men, when at the very same time it shall both waste the wicked, and purge the mean: the works of one sort withstanding the flame, the dross of the other in a manner feeding the same. S. Ambrose therefore thus writeth of the holy Apostle. De morte joannis aliqui dubitarunt, Serm. 20. in Psal. 118. de transitu per ignem dubitare non possumus, quia in paradiso est, & à Christo non separatur: some doubt of john's death, but of his passage by the fire, because he is in joy with Christ, we can not doubt. And of S. Peter he saith. sive ille sit Petrus qui claves accepit regni coelorum, Psal. 65. oportet dicat transivimus per ignem & aquam & induxisti nos in refrigerium. Yea if it be Peter himself to whom the keys of heaven were committed, he must say: we passed by fire and water, and thou hast brought us into the place of refreshing. But how so ever God worketh in this case with the perfit sort, this the Church believeth, and so this doctor teacheth, and therefore I dare be bold to say it, that such neither suffer any pain, nor tarriance by the way. Though by nature, that fire or torment prepared for the amendment and punishing of sin or the dross thereof, might of force and right take hold there, where corruption of sin by any means hath been, that is not wholly purified before. Therefore the soul of our Saviour, being altogether unspotted, could not be subject to any sufferance in the world to come, by any ordinance prepared for the punishment of sin: that fire having no further grant by creation and natural property, but to waste there where sin is found to have been. Upon other it would work till all corruption were consumed, if mercy did not prevent both in purifying those singular elect vessels, and in repressing the nature of the flame prepared, that it practise not justice, where God hath abundantly showed grace and mercy before. Albeit I do not say that the fiery sword is in the passage of every soul towards heaven, for that is God's secret: and I will with S. Ambrose in the same place say: Quod legi praesumo, Ibidem. quod non legi scientibus relinquo. That which I have read, in grave authority, that will I boldly avouch: that which I have not read, with fear and reverence I commit to men of more knowledge. As with out exception I submit myself to the determination of God's Church in all these points of mysteries, which in this deep matter course of talk may drive me unto. But now for the meaner sort that with Christian faith and good works have yet some base building of infirmity or lighter trespasses also, those must needs be tried by the fire of just judgement, in the world to come. And this is that which S. Augustine calleth so often the Amending fire. S. Ambrose the fiery sword, Vide Rupe●tum in 3. cap. Genes. In Ser. de S. Nicolao. S Bernarde termeth it the place of expiation, In quo pater benignus examinat filios rubiginosoes, sicut examinatur argentum: In which our merciful father trieth his rusty children as silver is tried. Whi●h all these holy fathers with the rest, oftentimes do name by the common calling of Purgatory. Read all these place is named if thou hast occasion thyself, and there thou shalt find to thy singular comforth, sufficient proof of thy faith, great motion of godly life, with necessary fear of God's judgements. Thou shalt marvel at the ignorance of our time, that could ever doubt of so plain a matter: thou shalt pity with all thy heart the unworthy deceiving of the unlearned, and have large matter to withstand the deceiver, and to help the simple home again. 2 The rest of this chapter is so vainly consumed, in searching how the perfect men shall pass through purgatory and feel it not, that it is not worth the answering, but only to see how he is cumbered to reconcile the doctrine of the Papists concerning purgatory, and the opinions of the old writers, touching them that pass through fire into paradise. For their opinion (as we have seen before) was that all men were they never so just, passed through that fire, and were purified thereby. The Papists affirm, that perfect just men come not at all in their purgatory, as the M of the sentence teacheth lib. ●. dist. 21. M. Allen to retain the authority of the old writers, holdeth that perfect just men pass through this purgatory, without sense of pain, or making any stay there, yea he doubteth not to affirm, that Christ him sel●e passed through the fire of purgatory, though he could not feel the smart of it, because he was pure from sin. Is not this wholesome doctrine think you? to be so careful to rack the fiery sword, that Ambrose speaketh of, unto purgatory, that he is not ashamed to invent a new article of our faith, that Christ descended into purgatory. A place alleged for purgatory out of S. Matthew, with certain of the ancient father's judgements upon the same. CAP. X. 1 ANd yet it shall be convenient, that I help the studious reader with further proof out of the holy Scripture, that he may be fully established in his faith, and the adversary heretic wholly confounded in his misbelief: If he list not rather (as I heartily pray to God that he may) give over that unnatural plea, holden to long against the Catholic Church our mother. give ear then unto the words of our Saviour written in the Gospel of S. Matthew: Cap. 5. Esto consentiens adversario tuo cito dum es in via cum eo: ne forte tradat te adversarius judici, & judex tradat te ministro & in carcerem mittaris. Amen dico tibi non exies inde donec reddas novissimum quadrantem. Lucae. 12. Be at agreement with thine adversary speedily, whiles thou art with him in the way. Jest that adversary deliver thee up to the judge, & the judge commit thee to an officer, by whom thou may be cast into prison: surely I say unto thee, thou shalt not get out, till thou have discharged the uttermost farthing. Now being desirous of the truth and true meaning of this letter, (for the understanding maketh all) because there may arise by the darkness of that figurative speech some diversity of sense, let us indifferently weigh every word, and with diligence examine the circumstances of the text whereby any light may appear. And first being admonished to agreed with our adversary, we may right well know that he meaneth not by the common enemy of our kind, 1. Petri. 5. that roameth about seeking whom he may devour: for his cruel assaults must only by resistance be withstand. Neither the word which the Evangelists there used, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. Litigator. seu actor. can properly signify any malicious enemy, that by hatred of our person is become our deadly foe, as those which be skilful in the language is wherein they wrote, do confess: But rather, as well the word as the just consideration of the place, driveth us to acknowledge that this our adversary, here signifieth our brother, which hath just quarrel against us in judgement, for that we would not give ear unto him sharply admonishing us of our faults, being therefore an adversary to our viceis and fleshly conversation. In which sort, to us that are flesh and blood, and ready to evil from our youth, all be adversaries that preach Christ, the amendment of licentious manners, repentance of our loathsome life passed, Vide Bern. ser. 85. super Cantic. or else use against us the rod of correction and bodily punishment, that our souls may be saved in the day of the appearing of our Lord. To this kind of adversary, Christ counseleth and commandeth us, for our great good, to agreed and consent whiles we be here in the way of this our pilgrimage and transitory life: jest all these means which he wrought to reduce us to the perfection of a Christian godly life, be as it were a witness of our contempt, & himself our accuser before the judge, that shall so justly reward every man according to his deeds: that is Christ himself, Act. 10. to whom the father hath given all judgement. Whose ministers being Angels, either good or bad, for the execution of justice upon sinners, shall at his appointment cast us into the prison and dungeon, there to be holden from life and liberty, till we have paid the last farthing: the toleration of which bonds shall recompense the debts, which by well doing and much mourning, in the way of this world, we refused to pay: as S. Augustine piththely speaketh in these words. De libero Arb trio. lib. 3. cap. 15 Si non reddit faciendo justitiam, reddet patiendo miseriam: he that payeth not his debt by doing that which is just & right, he shall pay it by suffering misery. Which we trust the pitiful pains of that prison, through the only deserts and merits of Christ our Lord and God, shall so discharge, that after the payment either pardoned or fully made, we may have joyful access to his blessed presence. For the form of speech used in like ordre of words by both the Evangelists, doth us plainly to understand, that we may through Christ make full payment thereof. Ells he would not by likelihood have said, that we should not scape forth till we had discharged▪ the utmost farthing, but rather that severe judge would have given charge, that the offender should be bound hand and foutte, and cast into the dark doungion of everlasting damnation prepared for the devil, and his angels: which is the second and everlasting death. Carcer. Namel● the word of Imprisonment so well agreeing thereunto, that it may not well admit any other meaning, but a place of temporal torment. For a prison is a place of correction & chastisement of such as be on live, in which as long as life lasteth a man may be in hope of liberty, though his bondage for a time be never so untolerable: but when sentence of death is once pronounced in this world, or damnation in the next, than we may right well know God's mercy to be shut up, and the party desperate of all recovery. Neither the name of Imprisonment in Scripture, is lightly taken for the place of everlasting punishment, nor can by conference of the sundry parts of this letter, have here conveniently any such sense. CAP. X. 1 HEre according to M. Allens orderly proceeding, is alleged for purgatory a place out of S. Matthew, where Christ saith to him that neglecteth to reconcile himself to his adversary, before he came to the judge, that he shall be cast into prison from whence he shall not come, until he have paid the uttermost farthing. The meaning of Christ is plain, that he shall never come out no more, than that wicked servant, which was cast in prison until he should pay the whole debt which was ten thousand talents. Matth. 18. But before we go any further, let us see how the doctrine of this chapter agreeth with that we had in the chapter next before. The●e we were told, that purgatory serveth but for venial sins, or else for such mortal sins as by forgiveness in this life obtained, are made venial trespasses. But here not only vices and fleshly conversation, but also contempt of all that preach Christ and repentance of our loathsome life passed, etc. are said to be the debt that must be discharged in purgatory to the uttermost farthing, than the which no vice is more mortal, nor farther from forgiveness. For he that not only leadeth a loathsome life, but also contemneth all those means that Christ hath wrought to reduce him to the perfecton of a Christian godly life (I use his own words) how can he have remission of his sins in this life, and yet M. Allen dare promise' him, that the toleration of bands in the prison of purgatory, shall recompense his debt, and bring him from thence into the blessed presence of Christ. M. Allen hath the most passing faculty of any that ever I heard, to build one thing in one leaf, and to overthrow it himself again in the next. Nevertheless I can not abide that he should promise' a pardon of that payment, which Christ sweareth shall be made unto the uttermost farthing. For he that refuseth reconciliation or repentance in this life, must not look for a pardon after this life. Therefore if M. Allen will needs understand this prison for purgatory, I will be so bold upon Christ's oath and earnest asseveration to affirm, that he which is so imprisoned shall neither look for mercy nor satisfaction by other men's payment, but by his own suffering. But let us see how he proveth, that this place is to be understood of purgatory? First by likelihood that he should not have said: he shall not escape until he hath paid the uttermost farthing, but rather, cast him into the dark dungeon of everlasting damnation. M. Allen either can not, or will not see, that Christ here continueth an allegory of a temporal judgement, as Matt. 18. where he hath the same, Donec, as the same in like sense is often used else where. Secondly the name of imprisonment, will not well admit (he saith) any other meaning, but of a temporal torment, as though hell is not called a prison. 1. Peter. 3. And Apoc. 20. which is a place of everlasting torments. Therefore here is no show of matter but big words only 2 And these notes well and diligently considered, may give great light to the alleged words otherwise somewhat obscure, and therewith prove our matter too. They be not of my scanning only, as for some part thou shalt perceive by these words of Rupert, Super. 5. ca Matth. an excellent good author. Aduersarius eorum qui erant eiusmodi sermo fuit evangelii, & omnis praedicator evangelicae veritatis, potestatem habens non consentientem sibi tradere judici: & non solum judici, verum etiam malo ministro, quemadmodum unus eorum tradid●t hominem satanae. The adversary of such men was the word of the Gospel, and each preacher of the truth, who had pour to deliver him that would not agreed unto him to the judge: yea further then that, he had authority to commit him to an evil minister, as one of them gave up a man to Satan. Here we see what that adversary is, to whom we must consent in this life: and withal, we have an example in this judgement of God's ministers, how man may be committed in the next life to a tormenter, that may vex him then at God's prescription, as he doth now at the charge only of his minister: then in favour and mercy of the judge, as it is now in love and charity of the vicegerent, then for the attaining of heavens bless, as it is now for the salvation of the person punished. Lib. 21. de civit. Dei. cap. 13. For the execution of God's sentence may be either by a good spirit, or our adversary Angel, or by his will and word only, to whom all creatures serve and obey. In this sense Paulinus, who was S. Augustine's pear, writeth that the holy Ghost and God's word, be man's adversaries in earth: to whom if we apply ourselves obediently in this world, our sorrow can not be long in the next life. But these be his own words. Ad Amandum epist 1. Neque septem dies luctus noster excedat, si consentiamus in huius vitae via, adversario nostro, id est, spiritui ac vei bo dei quod nobis peccantibus adversatur, etc. Our grief can not be much longer than seven days (he meaneth it shall be a temporal pain, and not very long) if we consent in the way of this life to our adversary that is to wit, the spirit and word of God. For they be our adversaries when we sin: because the holy Ghost chargeth the world with sin, and the word of God, if we obey not, will be our accuser and promoter up unto the judge: who will have an account of his talon, to the uttermost farthing. Thus far spoke this Author: and in like sense many more whom I need not now name. Because there is such store of testimonies, that not only in some part make for the opening of this scripture: but altogether for Purgatory. And one or two of them I will briefly recite: because I determined with myself, and bound myself, for my discharge and the readers more safe warrant, to bring no text of scripture for the proof of my purpose, except I might find some holy writers of the antiquity that used the same directly in that sense: that if any man would reprehend my meaning, yet he should not be so bold with such as I can name, & prove to be my authors therein. 2 In this part are two testimonies alleged, one of Rupertus, an other of Paulinus, of which Rupertus affirmeth his exposition of the adversary, but touching purgatory he saith nothing. Paulinus interpreteth the adversary somewhat otherwise, but he speaketh of them that do agreed with him in the way of this life, whose sorrow he saith shall not exceed seven days, but what sorrow they shall abide that contemn this agreement, he saith nothing, but generally of the account of the uttermost farthing. I marvel whether M. Allen was awake when he alleged these two testimonies for purgatory, or whether he thought that all men should be asleep that should read them. 3 But whom may I more safely allege for the contentation of sober wits, and repressing the adversaries boldness, than the blessed martyr S. Cyprian? Who in the forth book of his Epistles, for the declaration that every one which here is pardoned of his sins, shall not strait be exalted to the glory of saints and martyrs after their death, useth very fitly (as he doth all other placies of scripture) the foresaid text, by these words. Epist. 2. Aliud est ad veniam stare, aliud ad gloriam pervenire: aliud, missum in carcerem non exire donec soluat novissimum quadrantem, aliud statim fidei & virtutis accipere mercedem: aliud pro peccato longo dolore cruciari, & purgari diu igne, aliud peccata omnia passione purgari: aliud denique pendere in die judicij ad sententiam domini, aliud statim a domino coronari: In English: it is an other thing to stand at a pardon, than out of hand to attain to glory: it is an other manner of matter to be committed to prison, thence not to departed till the last farthing be discharged, See how fully he expresseth both the word and meaning of purgatory. He calleth the sentence of God in the next life judgement. & to receive out of hand the reward of faith and virtue: It is one thing by great sorrow to be tormented for our sins, and by long fire amended & purged of the same, and an other to have sufficiently purged them by martyrdom: in fine, it is not all one to hang on God's sentence in the day of judgement, and out of hand to be crowned of our Lord. These words as you see, expressly prove our matter, open the meaning of the scripture whereon we now stood, and do clearly set forth the order of Gods justice in the next life. And they shall content the reader better, if he mark upon what occasion this blessed man spoke these words. There were many in the persecution of that time, that for fear or worldly respects, denied their faith, and offered to idols: who afterward, the storm of tyranny somewhat being calmed, confessed their fault, and did penance for the same, by S. Cyprian & other good bishops prescription, that then ruled the Church of those days. By whom, after due satisfaction made, they were admitted to the communion of the Christian company, & receipt of the holy Sacraments again. But all pastors not of like mercy of severity in the case, some were suspended from the use of the Sacraments longer, and othersome by more clemency with speed pardoned again. Now S. Cyprian, though he were very severe in such a cause, (as in all his works it doth well appear) yet he was blamed by Antonianus & others, that he dealt over meekly with such as denied their faith, in so speedy admission of them to the peace of God's church, as they then termed that reconciliation: alleging, that if such worldly wind waverers might be admitted so soon after, the open denial of their faith, then there would none steadfastly stand to death, by confession of their belief and their masters name, any more: the refusers being in as good case as they, if pardon might so soon be procured. But S. Cyprians answer is this: that their admission can not withdraw any man's zeal from martyrdom, or confession of Christ's name, seeing their reconciliation doth not set them on so clear board as martyrs be: Who being tried by their blood shall strait receive the crown of glory: When the others standing but upon pardon of their sins, and not discharged of due pains for the same, must into prison notwithstanding, till they have paid their uttermost duty: and by long amending by fire, at the last come to that reward, which the martyrs attained by sufferance at the first. And thus I think this holy Martyr meaneth. Markewel. His words surely be singular and being well understand, they contain as much matter for our purpose, as can be possibly in so little room: besides the exposition of the text wherein we yet do stand: But I will add more, that all may be self on every side. 3 The place of Cyprian hath more colour, but yet not so clear for purgatory as M. Allen would seem to make it. For first it is plain by the words both going before and following after, that he speaketh of adulterers that are pardoned in the Church, of whom some bishops that were Cyprian his predecessors had so hard a judgement, that they did utterly seclude them from reconciliation, and allowed them no place of repentance, but Cyprian was not of that unreasonable severity, for his Church did receive them, although they counted them not equal with martyrs or continent persons. For it is one thing to be admitted by pardon, as adulterers are, but yet with some note of ignominy, an other to come to glory, as martyrs and continent persons do. It is one thing by denying of reconciliation to adulterers in this life, to drive them to that prison, from whence they shall not come till they have paid the uttermost farthing, an other thing to count them unreconciled, like them that immediately receive the reward of there faith and virtue. It is one thing for a man after he hath been long time vexed with sorrow for his sins, to be reformed as one that hath been long purged in the fire, an other thing by suffering persecution to have purged all his sins. Finally it is one thing to hang upon the sentence of God in the day of judgement, as they seem to do which being penitent for their heinous sins, yet are not absolved from them by the Church: An other thing to be assured of their crown, which have strived lawfully. And this I take to be the simple meaning of Cyprians words, agreeing with the circumstance of the place. But if they were otherwise meant by him, surely they can not but with cart ropes be drawene to the Pope's purgatory. For those that stand by pardon he excludeth from glory, and those that are reformed by sorrow and purged by fire, he suspendeth until the last day, and then maketh them uncertain of the sentence also: which can not stand with the Papists opinion of purgatory: no more than that which he writeth in his treatise against Demetrianus toward the end. Quando isthinc excessum suerit, nullus iam locus poenitentiae est, nullus satisfactionis effectus. Hic vita aut amittitur aut tenetur etc. When men are gone hence, there is no place of repentance, no effect of satisfaction: while we are here life is either lost or held. And exhorting Demetrianus himself to repentance which had been a wicked man and a persecutor of the Christians, he saith to him: Tu sub ipso licet exitu, & vitae temporalis occasu, pro dilictis rogues Deum, qui unus & verus est, confessionem & fidem agnitionis eius implores, venia confitenti datur, & credenti indulgentia salutaris de divina pietate conceditur, & ad immortalitatem sub ipsa morte transitur. If thou although it but a little before the end and decay of this temporal life shall pray to God for thy sins, which is the only true God, If thou desire confession and faith of his knowledge, pardon is given to him that confesseth, and wholesome forgiveness of the goodness of God is granted to him that believeth, and even from the hour of death he passeth into immortality. By this appeareth what Cyprian his judgement was of purgatory and the effect of satisfaction after this life. 4 Eusebius Emissenus, Homil. 3. de Epiphania. an author of great antiquity and much credit in the Church of God helpeth our cause by this notable discourse following. Hi vero qui temporalibus poenis digna gesserunt, ad quos sermo dei dirigitur, quod non exient inde donec reddant novissimum quadrantem: per fluuium igneum de quo propheticus sermo commemorat, Dan. 7. & fluuius rapidus currebat ante cum, per vada feruentibus globis horrenda, transibunt. Quanta fuerit peccati materia, tanta erit pertranseundi mora, quantum accreverit culpa, tantum sibi ex homine vindicabit flammae rationabilis disciplina: & quantum stulta iniquitas gessit, tantum sapiens poena deseviet. Et quia sermo divinus quodammodo aeneae ollae animam comparans: Ezech. 24. Pone ollam super prunas vacuam donec incalescat aes eius: illic periuria, irae malitiae, cupiditates, quae puritatem nobilis naturae infecerant, exudabunt: illic stannum vel plumbum diversarum passionum, quae aurum divinae imaginis adulteraverant, consumentur. Quae omnia hic ab anima separati per eleemosynas & lachrymas compendij transactione poterant. Ecce sic exigere habet ab homine rationem qui seipsum pro homine dedit, & confixus clavis, legem mortis fixit. Thus it is in our tongue. As for all such, unto whom for their offences our lords word is especially directed, that they shall not come out till they have paid the uttermost farthing: Those must pass the fiery flood, by horrible fords of skawlding waves: Whereof the Prophet maketh mention thus. And a fiery stream ran before his face. The space of passage shall be measured by the matter of sin: according to the increase of our offences, the discreite discipline of that flame shall revenge again: and look how far in wickedness our folly did reach, so far this punishment shall wisely waste. And like as God's word compareth man's soul to a brazen pot, saying: Set the pot empty over the coals till the brass thereof of wax hot. So there thou shalt see perjury, anger, malice, unfructefull desires sweat out, which did infect the purity of man's noble nature: there the pewter and lead of divers passions, which did abase the pure gold of God's image, shall be consumed away. All which things might in our life time have easily been wiped away by alms and tears. Such a straight account lo will he keep with man, He alludeth to the place of the second chapter to the Colossians of the obligation of death which was against us. that for man's sake gave himself to death, and being throust through with nails, hath fastened the dominion of death also. So far hath Emissenus spoken: and his words be so weighty, that they have been counted worthy rehearsal in solemn Sermons and Homilies of the Antiquity, to stir up their hearers to the necessary awe of God's judgements, with much provocation of virtuous life. S. Augustine hath the self same discourse, almost no word thereof changed: With this addition: Ideo (fratres charissimi) convertamus nos ad meliora, Homil. 16. Tom. 10. dum in nostra potestate sunt remedia: Therefore dear brethren let us turn and amend by time, whilst the remedies be yet in our own dealing. And in an other place thus he toucheth the scripture alleged: Apparebit Deus Deorum in Zion: In Psal. 103. sed quando? post peregrinationem finita via, si tamen post finitam viam, non judici tradamur, ut judex mittat in carcerem. The God of Gods in Zion shall appear: but when? marry after our pilgrimage be past, and the journey ended. Except it s● fall out, that after our journey here, we be delivered up to the judge, & so the judge sand us to prison. To this place also S. Bernarde doth sweetly, but yet fearfully allude in this exhortation: In vita Humberti. Volat (saith he) irrevocabile verbum, & dum creditis vos cavere poenam istam minimam, incurritis multo ampliorem. Illud enim scitote quia post hanc vitam in locis purgabilibus, centupliciter quae fuerunt hic neglecta reddentur, usque ad novissimum quadrantem. Our word, not possible to be called back, flieth far: and whilst you seek to avoid a little grief here, you incur much greater. For assure yourself of this, that after this life, in places of purgation, all negligencies past must be repaid a hundredth fold home again, till the discharge of the last farthing. 4 As for this authority of Eusebius which hath served for a patch to piece up so many homilies, of so many diverse men as a Cuckoo's song uttered in diverse places, seemeth neither to have Eusebius nor Augustine, nor any other good author to be the father of it, but even some cowled cuckoo, that hath left this egg in so many birds nests to be hatched under their wings, and to be counted for one of their chickens, but that your voice doth soon bewray it. And here a man may note a great piece of cunning in them that had the writing out of books, about those times when errors began to take strength, that not only whole works were falsely entitled to divers good authors, but also patches inserted to their own works. And if any thing by them were once spoken, that sounded to the confirmation of those errors, that was thrust into divers places of their writings, jest it should scarce be espied in one. And hereof it cometh, that such sayings in Augustine, Chrysostome and other, as seem to allow prayer for the dead, be so often repeated in their writings, and especially in homilies that were taken of their mouths, by Scribes and Notaries. But who so ever was the father of this sentence as he speaketh friendly for the pains of purgatory, so he showeth himself an utter enemy to the release of the same. So doth that Augustine which addeth his exhortation to these words by him repeated. But the other Augustine, which writeth upon the 103. Psalm saith, that God shall appear to them only, which are not cast into prison when they be departed out of this life, therefore I muse wherefore those words are here brought in. For Augustine (as I will show afterward) understandeth that prison for hell and eternal torments. Bernard although he be too young to depose in this cause, yet he speaketh not so much to avouch the pains of purgatory as to deny the remedy or remission of them: wherefore his testimony helpeth not purgatory so much one way, as it hindereth the Papists gain an other way. 5 Here now let our adversaries in this bright shining truth, blind themselves: let them boldly boast, of their accustomed impudence, that the Catholics have no scriptures, nor appearance of scriptures: or if they stand with us for the meaning, let them shape with all their conveyance, any one shift to answer these doctor's words: Or if the uniform consent of so many of the best learning, and greatest wisdom in the whole Church, may have no room with them, let them show whereupon their own credits be grown so great, that without reason, likelihood, or authority, men must needs believe them. It is a strange case, that what soever they avouch, it must be God's word: what meaning so ever they make for maintenance of their wicked folly, it must be termed the true sense of Scripture: And the truth itself showing all force, in the conference of divers places of holy writ, in weight of reason, in the works and writings of all antiquity, shall be so lightly regarded. I would to God the people pitifully deceived by such vain flying talk, could behold the upright ways of truth, or could learn by the plain dealing of our side, to require some grounded proof of these new doctor's devices. The difference betwixt the Catholics dealing, & the adversaries. They may well perceive if they have any necessary care of those weighty matters touching our salvation so near, that the Catholic never adventureth to bring any Scripture for his purpose, but he will be sure for his warrant, to have the same so expounded by the ancient fathers of our faith: jest by his rashness he deceive other, and father some falsehood upon the holy writers of Gods will: which were horrible sacrilege. But on the other side if a man might pose M. Caluin, or Flaccius, or such other of that light family, what doctor or Scripture they followed in the exposition of S. james his place, for the anointing with holy oil, when they were not ashamed to give this sense of that Scripture: jacob. 5. that it were good to call the elders of the people, that had some salve or ointment medicinable to ease the sick man's sore: what would they say? I am sure such fellows will not excuse themselves by ignorance, (for the arrogancy of that sort, had rather be counted either malicious or presumptuous, then unskilful) but of passing boldness all such must needs be noted, that dare shape such an exposition of God's blessed word, which they never heard surmised of any wise man before. What doctor did they or Luther follow, when they expounded S. Paul's words of widows marriage after vows made, 1. ad Tim. 5. which the text calleth breaking their first faith, to be meant by the promise of the Christian faith made in Baptism? Was not this a gallant gloze in this sense? she that breaks her faith of baptism, shall be damned for marriage. Ask them where these pretty schools were first picked. Pose master jewel where he had, that the Church of God might err. You shall see them earnestly urged in these matters, how little they have to say, and yet how fast they will tennesse one to an other in talk. But I will not make a reckoning of their unseemly gloss: I would their followers would only but ask them in all matters, from whence they had such new meanings, which they falsely father on God's word: that we might once hedge them within some compass of reason, as we be contented with all our hearts, to charge our own selves in every matter that we handle, as partly they may conceive by our discourse, and shall more clearly anon. 5 Here M. Allen like Thraso upon the stage alone, must show his vain in foolish insultation, as though he had overthrown a whole army of men, when he hath not killed a mouse: he lacketh but his Gnato to hold him up with ait aio, negat nego. For we must be examined, and M. Caluine, & M. jewel must be posed, as though men had nothing to say, but that which M. Allen will imagine they can say. For my part I will not refuse to satisfy his demand. He will know and have us aposed, from whence we have that new meaning of our saviours words, that he which is cast into prison for neglecting of reconciliation while he is in the way, is cast into hell, from whence he shall never come. As it is most plain by the very words of the text that our Saviour Christ speaketh of judgement with all extremity, & without all mercy, so this sense hath sufficient witness of antiquity greater than that I think M. Allen dare except against them. First Chrysostome upon this place of Matthew understandeth the prison to be a temporal punishment of imprisonment in this life affirming that Christ doth not only threaten torments of hell fire after this life, but also citation, judgement and imprisonment. But that ancient doctor whose commentary of 54. homilies hath long gone under Chrysostom's name being by Erasmus judgement as ancient and well learned as he, hath these words upon that place. Si autem quam diu in via huius vitae es, non feceris pacem cum adversario quem laesisti, sed sic inimicantes per mortem ieritis ante judicem Christum, tradet te Christo, convincens te reum in iuditio eius, & judex tradet ministro: id est Angelo poenarum crudeli, & ille mittet te in carcerem Gehennae. But if thou shal● not have made peace with thine adversary whom thou hast offended, while thou art in the way of this life, but that you go on in your contention by death before Christ the judge, he shall deliver thee to Christ convicting thee to be guilty in his judgement, and the judge shall deliver thee to the minister, that is to the cruel angel of torments, and he shall cast thee into the prison of hell fire. Augustine de sermon Domini in monte lib. 1. Non exeas inde donec soluas novissimum quadrantem, semper non exiturum esse quia semper soluit novissimum quadrantem, cum sempiternas poenas terrenorum peccatorum luit. Thou shalt not come out until thou hast paid the uttermost farthing, he meaneth that he shall never come out, because he is always paying the last farthing, while he suffereth everlasting pains for his sins committed on the earth. S. jeronym saith the sense of that place is manifest by that which goeth before and followeth, that the Lord exhorteth us to peace and concord, while we are in this life, and reproveth them that seek any other interpretations. Chromatius also an old writer upon this place of S. Matthew saith: Tradi ministro, etc. id est praeposito tormentorum, ut missus in carcerem Gehennae, debitas peccati poenas absoluat. To be delivered to the minister that is to the chief tormentor, that being cast into the prison of hell fire, he may pay the punishment due for his sin: again in the same place, à quo tradetur ministro, id est angelo tormentorum, mittendus in carcerem Gehennae. unde non dimittetur, nisi etiam novissimum quadrantem reddat, id est omnem poenam debiti etiam usque ad novissimum peccatum exsoluat. By the judge he shall be delivered to the minister, that is to the angel of torments to be cast into the prison of hell fire. From whence he shall not be let go, except he pay even the last farthing, that is, he shall pay all the punishment that is due unto the last sin. Now let M. Allen say, if he dare, that these witnesses lack either age or credit, or else let him say tongue thou didst lie when he said our interpretation of the Scripture was without all reason, likelihood, or authority. But now to the appositions a word or two, though out of the compass of purgatory, but we must follow M. Allen whether so ever it pleaseth him to range. M. Allen what Flaccius or any such as he is hath said neither do I know neither do I regard, let them answer for themselves: But whereas you charge M. Caluine to expound the oil whereof S james speaketh cap. 5. for a medicinable salve or ointment, all rhetoric set aside, I say plainly you lie, for he utterly rejecteth that exposition, Interpreting that place of the grace and gift of the healing, which then was used in the Church with the outward sign of oil, as appeareth also Mark. 6. But as for them that interpret the first faith which those widows reject, that after they wax wanton against Christ, they will marry, etc. for the faith of Baptism and christianity, they can not follow a better doctor, then S. Paul himself in the same chapter, where he saith, that who so neglecteth to provide for his own family, hath denied the faith and is worse than an infidel? what faith is this? but the faith of Christianity, but yet he is more plain in these words, where he calleth it the first faith, for what is the first faith, but the faith of Baptism and Christianity, and as for M. Allens cavil, she that breaketh her faith of Baptism, shallbe damned for marriage, is not worth a rush. For S. Paul saith not, she shallbe damned for marriage, but because she hath rejected the first faith, that is such wanton young housewives proceed so far, that at length they forsake widowhood, christianity and all. But if M. Allen were posed where he findeth this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Scripture, used for a vow or promise' made to God, perhaps he would answer he is no Grecian, then let him pose D. harding, or some other with the same question, and with all let them show how the first faith can be expounded for the last vow, that a body hath made, if he have made more than one. For the Papists hold that these women made one vow in baptism, an other of there widowhood. What so ever M. jewel hath affirmed against the Papists, he hath so substantially and learnedly defended, that he need not to have any other man to answer for him. Therefore if it were not to choke M. Allen in his own collar, I would travail no farther in this question. The Church you say can not err, and that company is the Church, which hath the Pope for their head, if therefore it can be proved, that the Pope and all they that take his part, have erred, it is sufficiently showed, that the Church may err. S. Augustine was in this error (as you will not deny) that the Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ was to be ministered unto infants, but of the same opinion he affirmeth, that Innocentius Bishop of Rome, and all the Church in his time was, therefore the Pope and all the Church did err. read Augustine contra julianum lib. 1. cap. 2. where he saith of Innocentius: Qui denique paruulos definivit, nisi manducaverint carnem filij hominis vitam prorsus habere non posse, which hath defined that infants, except they eat the flesh of the son of man, can have no life at all in them. And by eating the flesh of the son of man, he meaneth eating the Sacrament of his flesh and blood, as it is evident to them that will bestow the reading of Augustine's discourse in that place. An answer to certain objections of the adversaries, moved upon the diversity of meanings which they see given in the father's writings, of the Scriptures before alleged for purgatory: and that this doctrine of the Church standeth not against the sufficiency of Christ's passion. CAP. XI. 1 But now the other side seeketh for some shifts, and draweth back in this extremity thus. That the places of the old and new Testament, Object. now rather alleged for my purpose and the proof of purgatory, though they be thus expounded of the doctors, yet they may have some other meaning, and sometimes be construed otherwise by the fathers themselves. To which I answer, and freely confess that they so may have in deed: Answer. but the adversary must take this with all, that the pillars of Christ's Church would never have given this sense amongst other, or rather before all other meanings that probability or conference of scriptures did drive them unto, had it contained a plain faulsehood, as the heretic supposeth it doth. Yea had not the doctrine of Purgatory been a known truth in all ages, it should never by the grave judgement of so many wise men, have attained any colour of scripture. For though many meanings be found of most hard places in all the Bible, yet there is no sense given by any approved doctor, that in itself is false. And think you diverse texts of the holy Scripture could have carried a false persuasion of Purgatory, down from the Apostles days to our time, for true doctrine? Mark well, and you shall perceive that the Church of Christ hath ever given room to the diversity of men's wits, the division of graces, and sundry gifts in exposition of most places of the whole testament: with this proviso always: Diversity of sensies be allowed, so that none of them contain any falsehood in itself. The diligent watch that the Church keepeth over the truth. Epist. 110. that no man of singularity should father any falsehood or untruth upon any text: but otherwise, that every man might abound in his meaning. Marry falsehood she never suffered one moment, to take hold or bearing of any scripture, unreprehended. Ecclesia multa tolerat (saith S. Augustine) & tamen quae sunt contra fidem vel bonam vitam, non probat, nectacet, nec facit. the Church beareth many things: yet such things as be hourtfull to faith or good life, she never approveth, nor doth them herself, nor holdeth her peace, when she seeth them done by others. Thereof we have a goodly example in our own matter. So long as any convenient meaning might be found out by the holy writers, of that place alleged out of S. Paul for such as should be saved through fire, she liked and allowed the same. Some proved that the elect must be saved by long sufferance, some said the tribulation of this life and world must try men's faith & works, some said the grief of mind in losing that which they over much loved, was the burning fire of man's affections: some would have the grievous vexation of departure out of this life, to be a purgatory pains: some construed the text, of the fire of conflagration, that shall purge the works of many in the latter day: finally they all agreed, that the temporal torment of the world to come is literally noted, and especially meant by the fire which the Apostle speaketh of. All these so little do disagree amongst themselves, that not only by diverse men, but of one man they might well all be given. And being all in themself very true, the holy Church so liketh and alloweth them each one, that yet by the common judgement of all learned men, that meaning for Purgatory pains, she approveth as the most agreeable sense to the text, and whole circumstance of the letter. But as soon as Origen went about to prove by the same scripture, that all wicked men should at length be saved after due purgation by fire: then this pillar of truth seeing an open falsehood gathered by the scripture of God's word, could sustain no longer. She set up against this error her pastors, the grave fathers of our faith. who ceased not, as occasion served, to give men warning of the deceit intended: not only still maintaining the doctrine of Purgatory. but also expressly condemning all the reprehenders thereof, as hereafter it shall be better declared: and so misliking no sense that in itself was true, the meaning of Purgatory yet, hath been of all the learned counted so certain, that in giving any other likely exposition, that was ever added with all, as most consonant to the will and words of the writers. So doth Theodoretus, so doth S. Augustine, and so in a manner did they all. And as the said holy doctor saith (with whose words I am much delighted, by cause he of all other maketh truth stand most plainly upon itself. 12. Confess. ) One text of scripture may well have so many understandings as may stand with truth, and be not repugnant to good life and manners. And he hedgeth the diversity of men's wits in the exposition of scripture, with in the double knot of love, which is towards God and our brother: Who so ever (saith he) taketh himself to understand scripture or any part thereof, De doctri. Christiana lib. 1. ca 36. and in that meaning edifieth nothing at all the double love, of God and our neighbour, he misseth the true meaning thereof. But who so ever can find out such a sense that may be commodious to the increase of charity, although it were not directly intended by the writer, yet he is not harmefully deceived, nor found a liar therein. so saith he. Now as for our matter, I am well assured, there dare no man, though he were destitute of God's grace, yet not for shame of himself, affirm that the doctrine of purgatory is hourtfull to virtuous life, the only miscredit whereof, hath utterly banished all good Christian conditions: or injurious to the faith of God's Church, which is not only agreeable, but principally intended by the plain letter of God's word, and consonant to all other meanings, that may be gathered by any such scripture as we have alleged there for: and to be short, received of so many fathers, so wise, and so well learned, as we have named for that purpose, as a truth most reasonable, most natural, and most agreeable to God's justice. Well then, the misbelievers can have no shift nor escape, by the challenge of God's word, or doctures, or diversity of sensies: here is no hold for error: all I trust be safe and sure on every side. CAP. XI. 1 YOu should break your old wont, if you did not in this chapter overthrow something, that you have builded in that which went next going before. He hath laboured all this while to prove, that purgatory hath ground in the Scriptures, now he confesseth frankly: that there hath been no text of scripture by him alleged to prove it, but it may have an other meaning, and is sometime other wise construed of the fathers themselves. I will ask no more to prove that purgatory hath no ground in the word of God, which is not an ambiguous oracle, that may be drawn every way like a leaden rule, & hath but one true sense or meaning, which is the right meaning of the holy Ghost. For although diverse men may give diverse interpretations of some obscure and hard place, which all contain no impiety or falsehood, yet the spirit of God meaneth but one thing, and not what every man's wit and judgement will take it to be. True it is that so long as the proportion of faith is kept, the Church beareth with them that give wrong interpretations, but the spirit of God which is in his Church, alloweth not wrong interpretations for right. And where as M. Allen alloweth all the interpretations that the fathers have made of the text by him alleged, as true, so long as they affirmed no error, he may by the same reason affirm, that contradictories are true, as in that saying of him that shall not come out until he have paid the uttermost farthing: some have expounded, that he shallbe always punished, some that he shall not be always punished. One saith he shall never be released, an other saith, he shall be released at length, how is it possible that both these interpretations can be true? and yet both these interpretations are found in some writers. But his surest shift is, that the doctrine of purgatory, was a known truth in all ages. But this is the whole matter in controversy. For how can it be taken for a known truth in all ages, which hath none so sure ground in any text of scripture, that can be wrested for it, but the same text may have an other, and that a true interpretation. But of the antiquity of that error, we shall have better occasion hereafter to discuss in the second book, where this matter is of purpose entreated of. In the mean time, we will take that which is here granted so liberaly, that there is no text of scripture alleged for purgatory, but it may be otherwise truly interpreted, and not of purgatory, and that the fathers have so done by M. Allens own confession. 2 Their extreme and only refuge is, that the pain of Christ's passion, Objection. and his sufficient payment for our sins, standeth not with our satisfaction or penance in this life, nor with pain or purgatory in the next. O Lord how far may man's malice reach? that not contented to abuse their reason and the word of God in persuasion of error, but are bold to refer Christ's blessed death also, Answer. to cloak together with falsehood, wanton and licentious living. Many virtuous persons have been provoked by the meditation of our saviours sorrows, to leave the stattering wealth of this world, and to charge themselves with perpetual vexation of body: but that any did ever so rest upon Christ's passion, that in respect thereof, they might pass their days in idle wealth of lust and liberty, that was (I trow) unheard of, before this sinful sect. These fellows argue thus: Christ hath paid the full price of our sins, ergo we must do no penance, nor suffer any pain for them. But S. Paul thus: Christ by pain and passion is entered into the glory of his kingdom, Rom. 8. ergo if we look to be his fellow heirs, or partakers of his glory, we must suffer affliction with him, and join with him in pains and passion. S. Peter also thus: Christ hath suffered, leaving you an example that ye should follow his steps, 1. Petri. 2. therefore all his blessed life passed in pain must be a perpetual stirring up of toleration, & glad suffering for his name again. Matth. 3. john our masters messenger prepared the way of Christ's death and doctrine, by worthy fruits of penance: and that was the beginning of Christ's own preaching, Matth. 4. therefore I dare be bold to say these things are not abrogated by the teaching of the Gospel, nor void by Christ's passion: which only maketh our works and merits, to be of that value and acceptation, that all Catholic men count them of: which else to the satisfying for sin should be nothing available, nor to the attaining of heaven any thing profitable. But it is folly to make over many words in a case so plain, seeing the example of both God and good men's dealing, abundantly proveth man's punishment either temporal or eternal, to stand well with the excellent value of our saviours death. For if pain for sin, were injurious to Christ's death, then, the holy prophet David that lived long in grievous penance, were injurious to his lords death: then the Church were injurious to her own spouse his death, that chargeth all offenders with penance: then God himself were injurious to his own sons death, that sharply punisheth sin forgiven: then Christ himself were injurious to his own death, that both by his example and holy preaching, did ever commend sharp penance and pain. These delicate teachers of our time, that under pretence of preaching the Gospel, avouching the glory of God and the grace of our redemption, have served men's lusts, abandoned the old austerity of Christian life, and razed out of the people's hearts the fear of God's judgements, were foreseen by the holy Apostle judas: And he calleth them, Impios, judas in epist. transferentes Domini nostri gratiam in luxuriam. Wicked men, turning the grace of our Lord unto wantonness and lust. Against whom also S. Paul made this exception: Ad Gal. 5. that they should not in any wise by the freedom of our redemption challenge any liberty of the flesh. Notwithstanding Christ's passion then, we must not otherwise think, but to suffer for our own sins: not as helping the insufficiency of his merits, but as making ourselves apt to receive that blessed benefit, which effectually worketh upon no man, but by means: nor serveth any to salvation, but by obedience of his will and word. Ad Haebr. cap. 5. For if Christ's death should work according to the full force of itself, it would doubtless sup up all sin, and all pain for sin: it might wipe away death, both of this present life, and eternal: it would leave neither Hell, Purgatory, nor pain: the price and worthiness thereof being so abundant, that it might, being not otherwise by the unsearchable will and wisdom of the sufferer limited, save the whole world. But now ordinary ways by God's wisdom appointed for the bestowing of that excellent medicinable cup, (as S. Augustine termeth it) and conditions required in the parties beside, Articulo. 1. falso imp. Christ's death doth not discharge us of satisfaction for our sins, nor of any other good work, whereby man may procure his own salvation. 2 The sufficiency of Christ's passion is counted a light argument to M. Allen, but the weight thereof shall not withstanding bea●e down all the blasphemous doctrine of Popery. He saith thereby we cloak falsehood and licentious living. The Lord knoweth that he ●claundereth us. Then he will frame our argument thereof as he list, but there in he doth us too much wrong. But thus we reason in deed: Christ hath paid the full price of our sins, therefore there is no part of the price left to be paid by us. Christ hath fully satisfied for our sins, therefore their remaineth no satisfaction for us. Christ hath suffered for our iniquities, therefore we are healed by his stripes. And yet we neither exclude repentance, nor the true fruits thereof, which are good works, but rather we establish them. For Christ hath paid the price of their sins, that repent and believe in him, that follow his steps, that walk in his precepts, but neither our repentance, nor our faith nor good works deserve any thing, only the death of Christ is all our merit, and the only mean by which the same is applied unto us and we receive it, is our faith, thus the scripture teacheth, thus we believe. And as for that vain amplification of M. Allen, that the full force of Christ's death would sup up all sin, death, hell, and pain, we may see there by how Satan deludeth heretics to extend the benefits of Christ's death upon a fond supposition beyond the limits of his will, & not to allow the same to stretch so far, as God's determination hath appointed it. Christ hath satisfied for our sins, yet we must make satisfaction ourselves. Christ by his suffering is become a cause of salvation to all that believe in him, yet every man by good works must procure his own salvation. These are the enemies of the cross of Christ, which glory in their own shame whose end is confusion. 3 And I am not afraid to use the word Satisfaction, The word Satisfaction so abhorred of heretics is common with the old fathers. with Cyprian, O●●gen, Ambrose, Augustine, and the rest of that blessed fellowship: Who right well knew the value of our redemption, and the force of that satisfaction which our Saviour made upon the Crosse. I dare well leave these petty divines and speak with the grand capitanes of our faith and religion. And I would to God I could as well in any part come after them, in example of Christian life: Who not so much in word, as in the course of all their conversation, left unto us perfect patterns of great and grievous penance. Their long watching and wailing, their strange, weyelde, and waste habitation, their rough appareling, their hard lying, their marvelous fasting, their perpetual praying, their extreme voluntary poverty, and all this to prevent God's judgement in the world to come, for those small infirmities and offences of their frail life, may make our adversaries ashamed of themselves, that neither will follow their blessed steps, nor yet (which is the greatest sign of God's anger towards them that can be) like it, and allow it in others. 3 Touching the word of Satisfaction, used by the old writers, I have showed before, that they used it not in that sense, which the Papists do. And I confess with M. Allen, that they not only knew, but also have expressed the value, of our redemption by Christ in such words, as it is not possible, that the Popish satisfaction can not stand with them. Against the value of which redemption, if they have uttered any thing, by the word of satisfaction or any thing else, we may lawfully reject their authority, not only though they be doctors of the Church, but also if they were angels from heaven. There hearty bewailing of their sins, and fruits of true repentance, that they showed, not to justify themselves thereby, but to humble themselves before God, and to 'cause their light to shine to his glory, we pray God we may follow, not to set up our righteousness, but to the praise of his name. An evident and most certain demonstration of the truth of Purgatory: and the grievousness of the pains thereof, uttered by the prayers and words of the holy doctors, and by some extraordinary works of God beside. CAP. XII. 1 ANd we also, that by God's grace and great mercy be Catholics, must needs here conceive singular fear of God's terrible judgements, which of justice he must practise upon our wickedness, that live now in pleasure and worldly wealth after such a careless sort, that men may judge we have no respect of the dreadful day, nor care of Purgatory, which in words we so earnestly maintain. For Christ's sake, let all Catholics here attend. The deep and perpetual fear whereof, caused our elders not only to lead their life in such perpetual pain, but further forced them to break out in bitter tears, and utter most godly prayers, that they might escape the judgement of God, exercised by the pains of Purgatory at the end of our short and uncertain life. Some of them I will recite, that our hearts may melt in the necessary foresight of that terrible time, and the heretics be ashamed to deny that, which so constantly in word and work they ever professed. For fear of this fire to come, holy S. Bernarde maketh this meditation. O utinam magis nunc daret aliquis capiti meo aquas, & oculis meis fontem lachrymarum, fortè enim non reperiret ignis exurens, quod interim fluens lachryma diluisset. O would to God some man would now before hand provid for my head abundance of waters, & to mine eyes a fountain of tears: for so happily the burning fire should take no hold, where running tears had cleansed before. Ser. 55. in Cantic. And thus again the same blessed man debateth the matter with his own conscience. I tremble and shake, for fear of fawling into God's hands: I would present myself before his face already judged and not then of him to be judged. Therefore I will make a reckoning whiles I am here, of my good deeds and of my bad: my evil shall be corrected with better works, shall be wattered with tears, shall be punished by fasting, and amended by sharp discipline. Provision must be made that I bring not thither cockle in stead of corn, or chaff together with Wheat. I shall rip up to the very bottom all my ways, and my whole study, that he may find nothing untried, or not fully discussed to his hands: Naum. 1. And then I hope in his mercy, that he will not judge for the same faults, the second time In the like godly sense spoke another, long before his days: Beatus qui hic mala sua deflere, Emissaenus de poenitentia Ninivit. qui hic debita sua festinat exoluere, & innocentiam quam iam non potest per baptismum reparare, recuperare studeat per summum poenitentiae fructum: ad tales merito ipse Dominus loquitur, non iudicabo bis in idipsum. Happy is he that ever he was borne, that with speed bewaileth his sins, and in time dischargeth his debts: that he may so endeavour to recover by the fruits of penance his innocency, which by baptism he can never repair again: to such surely our Lord saith, that he will not call twice to account for one fault. CAP. XII. AFter the exhortation to your fellow Papists to stand in awe of purgatory, you bring in the meditation of Bernard for fear of the fire thereof. If you mean thereby to terrify your fellow Papists, it is somewhat, for you know he is a very late writer, and therefore his authority with us is of small account in such cases, as he followeth the common error of his time. I would both you & your fellows not for fear of temporal pains, but either for love of God, or fear of eternal damnation, would leave your blasphemous heresies, contrary to God● word, your slandering, persecuting, and murdering of God's Saints, and reforming your life after the rule of God's Gospel, would take hold of Christ by faith, to your eternal health, and so sorrow for your sins, that you might rejoice always, as the children of God do. The saying of Emissenus proveth no fear of purgatory, but of God's judgement unto condemnation prevented by repentance. 2 S. Ambrose showeth his fear also of Purgatory by this prayer. Precat praeparatoria 2. ad mis. Quod si etiam in illo adhuc saeculo aliquid in me vindicandum reseruas, peto ne me pot●stati daemonum tradas, dum scelus meum Purgatoria poena detergis. O Lord (saith he) if thou reserve any whit in me to be revenged in the next life, yet I humbly ask of thee, that thou give me not up to the power of wicked spirits, whiles thou wipes away my sins by the pain of Purgatory. Lo good reader the fear and faith of our fathers: lo how old this doctrine is, how ancient the word is. But in an other place the same author expresseth his care and continual cogitation of this judgement to be practised in Purgatory, comparing thus S. Peter his state with his own. Ille (saith he of S. Peter) examinabitur ut argentum, ego examinabor ut plumbum, In Psal 118. Serm. 20. donec plumbum tabescat ard●bo: si nihil argenti in me inventum fuerit, heu me in ultima inferni detrudar, aut ut stipula ●otus exurar: si quid in me inventum fuerit auti vel argenti non per meos actus, sed per gratiam & misericordiam Christi, per ministerium sacerdotij, dicam fortasse ego: Etenim qui sperant in te, non confundentur. In English. He shall be tried as silver, but I must be searched and examined as lead: till the lead melt away, must I continually burn. And if then there be no silver matter found, woe is me, I shall be throust down to the neither parts of the deep hell, or wholly waste away as strow in fire. But if any gold or silver be found in me, not through my works, but by grace and Christ's mercy, and for my ministry and priesthood sake, I shall also once say: those that put their trust in thee, shall never be confounded. Alas Ambrose was thou so careful f●r wasting away in thy purgation? what shall become of us, where all is dross, and no fine substance: so continual sinning, and so little sauluing: where the dignity of priesthood, whereby thou conceived such comfort is almost worn away? his fear was so hearty, and his meditation of purgatory pains was so earnest, that he conceiveth a doubt in respect of his deserts, of wasting away, and further casting into damnation: though he knew right well, that man admitted to the temporal judgement of the next world, could not everlastingly perish, but because the pains of the one is so like the other, the grief of them both lightly occupieth man's mind at once: especially where man's case is doubtful, and often deserveth the worse of the twain. 2 That Ambrose that writ the preparatory to mass, might be afferd of purgatory, & of tormenting by devils also, as his words are. But Ambrose of milan wrote no such book. It is sufficient for Papists, that every unlearned ass may entitle his fantasies to some ancient writer, and then they must be authentical. But draff is good enough for swine. As for that Ambrose that wrote upon the 118. psalm, showeth a fear of hell, if God should deal with him according to his justice, but by the grace and mercy of God, which is dispensed by his ministers, he recovereth himself being assured that all they that trust in him, shall not be confounded. M. Allen translateth per ministerium sacerdotij, for my ministry and priesthood sake, as though he joined his priesthood with the grace of Christ. I had rather refer it to the priesthood of Christ, but that I have given the true meaning of his words before. 3 So S. Augustine likewise, after that he had uttered his fear of hell in the Prophet David's person, as I said once before, straight he adjoineth his request unto God, to save him from Purgatory pains, by the Prophet's words also. I will recite his mind in English: In Psal. 37. O Lord amend me not in thy anger, but purge me in this life, that I may escape the amending fire, which is prepared for such as shall be saved through fire. And why? but because they build upon the foundation wood, hay, and straw. men might build gold, silver, and precious stones, and so escape both the fires, th'one of eternal punishment for the wicked, and the other, which shall correct them that must be saved through fire. But now because we read that he surely shall be saved, Note here Christian reder, whether. S. Augustine doubted of purgatory, as the lying & unlearned adversaries would make the simple people believe. De vera & falsa poeniten. Cap. 18. therefore that fire is not much regarded. And yet let them be bold of this, that though they be saved by fire, it shall yet be more fierce and grievous, than any thing that man may sustain in this life, though both Martyrs and malefactors have suffered strange torments. Again in an other place the same holy doctor uttereth the like saying: Which I will repeat also, that the world may behold the unjust dealing of the contrary part, that in the book of their excuse why they departed out of the Church (they call it their Apology) be not ashamed to avouch, that S. Augustine sometimes denied, and sometimes doubted of Purgatory. Thus he writeth then against such deceivers, and for the defence of himself and the Church's faith. Sed si etiam sic conversus evadat, vitam vivat & non moriatur, non tamen promittimus quod evadet omnem poenam. Nam prius purgandus est igne purgationis, qui in aliud saeculum distulit fructum conversionis. Hic autem ignis etsi aeternus non sit, miro tamen modo est gravis, excellit enim omnem poenam quam unquam passus est aliquis in hac vita. Nunquam enim in carne inventa est tanta poena, licet mirabilia passi sunt Martyrs, & multi nequiter iniqui tanta sustinuerunt supplicia. Studeat ergo quilibet sic delicta corrigere, ut post mortem non oporteat talem poenam tolerare. If a sinner (saith he) by his conversion escape death, and obtain life, yet for all that I can not promise' him, that he shall escape all pain or punishment. For he that differred the fruits of repentance till the next life, must be perfected in purgatory fire. And this fire, I tell you, though it be not everlasting, yet it is passing grievous: for it doth fare exceed all pain, that man may suffer in this life. Never grief in this flesh could be so great as it, though Martyrs have abiden strange torments, and the worst sort of wicked men, exceeding great punishments. Therefore, let every man so correct his own faults, that after his death he may escape that pitiful pain. So far S. Augustine: By whom we see not only the truth of our Catholic doctrine lively and vehemently set forth, but to the great fear of us all, the weight of God's sentence, and the pain of that untolerable punishment, a● the Church of his time taught and believed, to pass all mortal & transitory woe in the world. 3 Concerning Augustine we have answered before, that as that error of purgatory, was somewhat rifely budded up in his time, so he seemeth not always to be clear of it, although in some places he is not so certain of it, but that he affirmeth it may be inquired of, and peradventure shall be found to be so, peradventure it shall still remain hid or unknown. 4 Whereof, it hath pleased almighty God sometimes, The pains of purgatory hath been revealed to many holy persons. to give man a taste, by calling some one or other above the common race of nature out of this mortal life, and speedy restoring him from the state of the departed, to the company of the living again. Which work though it be strange in nature, thought unlikely to misbelievers, and contemned of such as would extinguish the spirit of God, yet it hath been the usual practice, 1 Thes. 5. since the beginning of our faith and religion, of the holy Ghost, so to trade man's frailey in faith & fear of God's judgements. Sometimes, the living 〈◊〉 in trance or sudden change by God's omnipotency taken up to the view as it were, of the unspeakable treasures of the prepared joys, or extreme calamities of the world to come, So was the Apostle S. Paul, 2. Cor. 12. he could not tell how himself, called to the beholding of God's majesty and mysteries unspeakable: So was S. john in spirit caused often to behold, Apocal. 20. and presently in a manner to see, not only the affairs of God's Church till the worlds end, but also the happy Seat of the Lamb, the eternal joy of the elect, and the everlasting lake of the damned, with the infinite sorrow of all the forsaken sort. And so have many one sith that time, in the same spirit, had a present taste of all those judgements, which by any means through the unsearchable ordinance of God, be prepared for sinners. Sometimes also, by the same force of the Spirit, the departed have appeared amongst the live: Ecclesi. 4 6. 1. Reg. 28. as Samuel the prophet to king Saul, uttering things to come. Or if that were not Samuel himself, because that practice of unlawful arts may be thought not convenient for the procuring of the Prophets own persons apparition: Matth. 17. yet Moses was in deed personnaly present with Christ in the Mount, at his transfiguration. And as he at Christ's call came from the dead out of the bousom of Abraham, so did Elias at the same time come from Paradise (as S. Augustine affirmeth) and were both conversant and in talk with Christ, Intercourse betwixt the live and dead, though it be not ordinary, yet it is not impossible. De cura pro mor. cap. 16 & in the sight of the Apostles at once: from whence they departed at Christ's appointment, to their several abode and rest again. Whereupon, the same holy doctor confesseth, that these rare & marvelous works of God though they follow not the common order of nature, yet they be neither impossible, nor unpractised in Christ's Church. Alij sunt (saith he) limits humanarum rerum, alia divinarum signa virtutum: alia sunt quae naturaliter, alia quae mirabiliter fiunt. The common course and limits of man's matters, be of one sort: and the wondrous signs of God's power and virtue, of an other: the works that naturally be wrought, are nothing like such things, as marvelously and miraculously be done. And as Christ in his own person, made many extraordinary works to bear testimony of his divinity, so he would that the glory of God and faith in him, should take deep root and large increase through out all nations, not only by preaching and word, but by works also. which the same holy Ghost for the salvation of the beloved flock, disposeth by the eternal wisdom, where, when, with whom, and as he listeth. Marry as these be the most secret ways and unknown steps of God's spirit, and therefore most humbly to be reverenced of the faithful: so because they are so far from the race of natural affairs, and much overreach flesh and blood, they are often of fools contemned, and of the unwise wisdom of worldlings, as extreme madness improved. The express signs of God's spirit, wrought by the Saviour of the world in his own person, Matth. 12. were with singular blasphemy, of the proud jews referred to Beelzebub, The tokens and wonders wrought by his Apostles, were attributed to unlawful arts, Wicked men have ever resisted the holy Ghost. and misconstrued of most miscreants to false intentes. It was ever a special note of incredulity, to blaspheme these peculiar steps of the spirit. S. Cyprian complaineth of such misbelievers in his time: that would not agreed to the truth after especial revelations had of the same: Which kind of men, he noteth in the latter end of an epistle, by these words. Quanquam sciam, omnia ridicula, & visiones ineptas quibusdam videri, sed utique illis, Lib. 4. epist. 9 qui malunt contra sacerdotes credere, quam sacerdoti: Sed nihil mirum, quando de joseph fratres sui dixerunt, ecce somniator ille venit. Although (saith he) I know right well how little account they make of visions, which they esteem as mere trieftes: But yet it is such only, that had rather believe against, then with God's priests. And no marvel that is, seeing good joseph's own brethren said by him in mockage. Lo yonder comes the dreamer. So did they scoff at him, Genes. 37. because he had more familiarity with the spirit of God, than the other had. 4 Now followeth a large and needless apology of visions and revelations, the doctrine of which is briefly and plainly set forth in the word of God, what so ever is consonant to the word of God is to be received, that which is not agreeable therewith, is to be detested, although not a man from purgatory, but an angel from heaven were the bringer of it. Then seeing the doctrine of purgatory is blasphemous against the merits of Christ's death, though all those fables of visions that are feigned to defend it were true stories, yet are we nothing moved with them. I pass over the impudence of this man, which is not ashamed to compare so many thousand fables, or illusions of Satan, as are reported to the maintaining of purgatory: to the revelation of S. Paul and the Apocalypse of S. john, or the appearing of Moses and Elias with Christ. They may be in deed a great number of them not unlike to that spirit of Samuel which was raised by the witch, which as Augustine affirmeth, and M. Allen dare not simply deny, was the spirit of the Devil himself. 5 Now as the joys of heaven & Paradise, with the torment of sinners and other secrets of the next life, have been strangely represented to some one or other in all ages, by sundry means most expedient to our salvation, and most seemly to the wisdom and will of the worker, so certainly, no article was ever with more force of spirit, or more grave authority set forth sense the beginning of Christian religion, than this one of Purgatory. Never nation was converted to the faith, but it had this truth not only taught by word, but by miracle also confirmed. And namely in that abundant flood of faith, when it pleased God, almost at once to spread his name amongst all these country's, it was thought most necessary to his divine wisdom, together with the true worship of his name, to plant in all faithful men's hearts, the awe and necessary fear of that grievous torment, for the revenge and just judgement of wicked life. This grievous pain was uttered by the very sufferers themselves. as we may see in the notable histories of Paschasius and justus, Cap. 24. l. 4. dialogorum reported by S. Gregory's own mouth. This grievous punishment was again declared by Furseus: who, as the reverent Bede reporteth, had the beholding of the eternal bless the everlasting mi●ery, Cap. 13. li. 3. and the temporal pain of the next life. Drichelmus also, by the ordinance of God taken from amongst mortal men into the state of the next world, Lib. 5. ca 13. after he had seen likewise, the terrible judgement of God practised even upon the elect, was restored to life again in our own nation, and was a witness worthy of all credit, of this same truth, not only by his word (whereof he was so sparing all his life time after, that he would not utter this same mystery but with singular care and respect of the persons intent, that asked him thereof) but namely by passing great penance, and incredible chastising of his body, which proceeded of the sensible knowledge that he had of the pains prepared. And being asked sometime (as holy Bede saith) why he so tormented himself, in the willing toleration of extreme heat, or contrary cold, both of frost and snow, he made answer simply and shortly, Frigidiora ora ego vidi: austeriora ego vidi: Ah masters I have seen colder: I have seen sharper. Meaning by the unspeakable pains of Purgatory. The whole history of his visions, with many the like, P. Beda. may be read in the Ecclesiastical history of our own nation, written by as faithful a witness, as ever was borne in our land: of such virtue, that he would beguile no man willingly, of so great wisdom, that he would report no tale nor triefle rashly: of such grace and learning, that he was well able to dis●erne a false fable and superstitious illusion, from a true and divine revelation. For as it were folly and mere vanity, to give credit to every spirit, so to condemn a spirit, or revelation, or any work of God's finger approved by the Church of God, 1. Cor. 12. in which there hath ever been the gift of discerning spirits, it is properly a sin against the holy Ghost. And because every man hath not that gift, as I would not counsel any man, over lightly to give credit to every private spirit and peculiar vision, because they may come of wicked intentes and sinister motions, so I think it were good, in fear, reverence and humility, to commit the discerning of such things, to the spirit and judgement of God's Church. With the belief of every peculiar man's fantasy, we are not charged: with humble submission of our whole life and belief, to the Church of Christ, there are we especially charged. And because there is nothing reported either in the works of S. Gregory, or in Bede, or in Damascen, or in any other the like, concerning the pains either of the elect or the damned in the next life, but as much hath been uttered before, by all the holy and learned fathers, in great agony of mind and fear of the said judgement, we may be the more bold to think the best, or rather we are bound to think the best of that spirit, which so conformably agreeth with the doctrine of the Church, and faith of all the fathers. There can no man say more of Purgatory nor more plainly, Damascenus vo●at purgatorium baptisma ignis. then S. Ambrose, being in a manner a frade himself, of wasting away in that horrible torment: none more effectually then S. Augustine, that confesseth there is no earthily pain comparable unto it, Lib. 4. Cap. 10. de ortho fid. Ad Amandun epist. 1. none more fearfully than Eusebius Emissenus, who termeth it skaulding waves of fire: none more pithily than Paulinus, that calleth those places of judgements, Ardentes tenebras burning darkness. Moore peculiarly may the circumstances and condition of that state by God be revealed, but the truth thereof can not be more plainly declared, nor better proved. These babes feared no bugs I warrant you: neither picked they Purgatory out of Scipio his dream, but they had it out of God's holy word, and tradition of the holy Apostles, and by the very suggestion of the spirit of truth. All which if it can not move the misbeliever, and stay the rashness of the simple deceived sort, it shall be but lost labour to bring in any more, for the confirmation of that truth, which all the holy doctors have so fully both proved and declared to my hand. 5 The tales that you tell out of Gregory and Bede, may be heard as they are told, and believed as they deserve, but that you make the opinion of purgatory such an article of faith, that no article with more force of the spirit, nor with more grave authority was set forth sense the beginning of Christian religion (and yet never taught in the scripture) that is by no means to be borne with all. If Satan hath laboured to plant that error, which is most blasphemous against Christ, and occasion of most licentious wickedness in all them that profess Christ and believe it, if Satan (I say) hath bend all his force to plant such an error, by which his kingdom is so much advanced, no wise man can marvel. Of like leaven it is that you affirm. That never nation was converted to the faith but it had purgatory taught by word and confirmed by miracle. O impudent affirmer. Of so many nations as S. Luke recordeth in the Acts of the Apostles to have been converted to the faith name one, unto which you can prove that purgatory was taught either by word or miracle. But to be sure, you name all even of the primitive Church, when that abundant flood of faith was spread over all countries. But when the proof cometh, you leap but 600. years from Christ, to Gregory's dialogues, from which time I will not deny but you may have great store of such stuff, as you have miracles now in Flaunders of the honest woman of the old Bailie in London, and such like. 6 But now for us, that through God's great mercy be Catholics, let us, for Christ's sake, so use the benefit of this our approved faith, to the amendment of our own lives, that where no argument will serve, nor authority of Scripture or doctor can convert the deceived, yet the fruit of this doctrine showed by good life and virtuous conversation, may by Christ's mercy move them. Let the priest consider that this heavy judgement must begin at the house of God, as S. Peter affirmeth, and so doth S. Ambrose prove it must do. In whom, Epist. 1. cap. 4. for the dignity of his honourable ministry, as much more holiness is requisite, Ambros. ubi supra. so a more strait reckoning must be required. Let the Lay man learn, for the avoiding of greater danger in the presence of the high judge, willingly to submit himself to God's holy ministers: Who have in most ample manner, a commission of executing Christ's office in earth, both for pardoning and punishment of sin: that suffering here in his Church, sentence and just judgement for his offences, he may the rather escape our father's grievous chastisement, in the life to come. Therefore I would exhort earnestly the minister of God, that in giving penance, he would measure the medicine by the malady: aptly discerning the limitation of the punishment, by the quantity of the fault: not using like lenity in closing up of every wound. For they shall not be blameless surely, that do the work of God's judgement committed to their discretion, negligently: nor the simple soul that looks to be set free from further pain, can, by the acceptation of such unequal remedies, avoid the scourge of judgement prepared: except he himself voluntaryly receive (as I would wish all men should) some further satisfaction, by the fruits of penance: that of his own accord he may help the enjoined penalty, and so by God's grace turn away the great grief to come. Excellently well, Epist. 2. and to our purpose said S. Cyprian in the fourth book of his epistles, talking of such offenders as were not charged with penance sufficiently, or otherwise negligently fulfilled the same, by these words. We shall not herein any thing be prejudicial to God's judgement that is to come, that he may not allow and ratify our sentence, if he find the perfect penance of the party so require. But if the offender have deluded us by feigned accomplishing of his penance, than God who will not be deluded because he beholdeth the heart of man, shall give judgement of such things as were hid from us. And so our Lord will amend the sentence of his servants. Where this doctor seemeth to allude to the accustomed name of Purgatory, which S. Augustine and other do often call the amending fire. Though it may well be, that he here calleth the contrary sentence of judgement to eternal damnation upon the impenitent sinner, whom the priest, because he could not discern the feigned hypocrasy of his external dealing, from the inward sorrow of heart, pronounced to be absolved of his sins, it may stand (I say) that he termeth that contrary sentence of God, the correction or the amendment of the priests judgement. How so ever that be, it is a work of singular grace and discretion, so to deal with the spiritual patient, that he have no need of the amending fire. 6 Here is an exhortation unto Papists, first to the priests that they will show the fruit of this doctrine in their conversation. For my part, ● am persuaded if fear of eternal torments in Hell, that God threateneth by his scriptures, will not terrify them, the feigned pains of purgatory which they can by their own Masses and other like merits avoid, will not restrain them. The lay men are exhorted to submit themselves to the priests, who have such an ample commission, that they may both pardon and punish sin, even as Christ himself did upon earth. But what availeth this submission? when the ignorant or negligent priest, that weigheth not the penance, in even balance with the offence, doth not by his absolution or pardonning take away one hours torments of purgatory as both M. Allen himself in effect confesseth, and the Master of the sentence also teacheth: unto whom M. Allen hath been so good a scholar, that he hath borrowed of him not only his judgement, but in diverse places his very words also he hath translated. Of the nature and condition of Purgatory fire: the difference of their state that be in it, from the damned in Hell: with the conclusion of this book. CAP. XIII. 1 IF any curious head list of me demand, where or in what part of the world this place of punishment is, or what nature that fire is of, that worketh by such vehement force upon a spiritual substance: I will not by long declaration thereof, feed his curiosity: because he may have both the example and the like doubt of Hell itself, and many other works of God more. The learned may see that question at large debated in the books of the City of God, and in the literal exposition upon the Genesis. Lib. 20. And yet after all search that man can make, this must be the conclusion, with the author of those books: Quomodo intelligenda sit illa flamma inferni, ille sinus Abrahae, Libro. ●. cap. 5. illa lingua divitis, illa sitis tormenti, illa stilla refrigerij, vix fortasse a mansuetè quaerentibus, à contentiose autem certantibus nunquam invenitur: melius est dubitare de occultis, quam litigare de incertis. I am sure (saith S. Augustine) the Rich man was in wonderful fervent pain, and the Lazare in the rest of a pleasant abiding, but how or of what nature that Hell flame and fire is to be taken, or Abraham his bosom, or the glottens tongue, or the intolerable thirst in that torment, or the drop to quench his heat. All these doubts can scarcely be dissolved and satisfied, to the contentation of him that with humility maketh search thereof. But to contentious and curious janglers, they shall never be known. Therefore better it is to be in doubt of these secrets, then to stand in contentious reasoning of things uncertain. So must we think also of Purgatory: that the pain thereof, of what condition so ever it be, or where so ever the ordinance of God hath placed it, is wonderful horrible. And by force of operation, representeth the nature of our fire: and both by scriptures and doctors, is most termed by the name of fire, as Hell torment is. It worketh so upon the soul of man, as the other did upon the rich man's soul, and all other that be already in Hell, before the receiving of their bodies into the same misery, at the general day of judgement. And the sensible grief may be as great of certain, as in the other place of everlasting damnation, as Cyrillus in vita Hieronymi doth declare. Cyrill. CAP. XIII. 1 THis is a very needless discourse, unless it were to make up a browen dozen of chapters, to inquire of the nature or condition of purgatory fire etc. and then to be able to determine nothing of it. If we shall give credit to those visions, revelations, and apparitions, which M. Allen defended so pithily in the last Chapter before, there is no man knoweth his own house, better than we may know every corner of purgatory, the place, the length, the breadth, the depth, the fire, the water, the burning, the scalding, the broiling, the frying, the whipping, the hanging, etc. At the least wise, if M. Allen would have taken so much foolish pains, as to have translated out of that worshipful author which he citeth, that which he hath written of the quality and condition of the pains of purgatory, he might have enlarged this chapter by two or three leaves. That beastly ass and shameless counterfector, that calleth himself Cyrillus (in the devils name) Bishop of jerusalem, writing to such an Augustine as he was a Cyrill, of the miracles of S. jeronym, maketh a large discourse of the pains of hell and purgatory, as he learned of Eusebius and of 3. dead men whom jeronym caused to be restored to life after he had showed them the pains of purgatory and hell, and this to confute the error of them that denied purgatory, I would marvel surely whether impudence in him that invented that fable, and set it out under the name of Cyrillus were greater than in M. Allen that allegeth his name & authority as antic & authentical, saving that, that counterfecter played the fool in the night, but Allen bringeth him forth in the broad day light. 2 But this is the great misery, and the difference: The diversity of the d●mneds case, and of such as be temporally punished in purgatory. that such as be in the judgement of Hell pains, have no hope of mercy, no passage from their infinite woe, no end of torment, no release of pain, no expectation of salvation, no comfort by Christ: but endless desperation, hatred of virtue, weariness of their creation: sorrow of their own being and persons: and, which is most untolerable, perpetual blasphemy, & grisly cursing of God's holy name. The other being under their merciful father's chastisement in purgatory, suffer great pain, but in quiet peace of conscience, in assured expectation and warrant of their salvation, in love of God's justice and judgement, even towards them selves, in the unity of the spirit of God, bearing testimony of them, that they be the children of the household, in perpetual experience of mercy and grace, in daily hope of release, in perfect love with out all sin or danger of sinning, in glad conceiving the benefit of their redemption for the remission of their offences past, and in worship and confession of God's holy name, then and after for ever more. And this is the company of the inferior parts, which boweth their knee, and reverenceth the name of jesus, (as the Apostle saith) when the other which be in the deep hell (the Prophet bearing witness) can not praise nor confess his blessed name, Philip. 2. which they both detest & blaspheme, to their unspeakable pain. There hath ever been, sense the death of the first virtuous man till this hour, and so shall be till the day of latter judgement, a company of elect and chosen people, that do honour God in the loughers parts: as till Christ's descending to Hell, the father's resting place in general, and some that suffered for sin further pain beside. And after, continually as before, the place of Purgatory, to endure for the punishment of certain, till the latter day, when all the elect shall reign without grief or pain, with Christ for ever more. Vide Greg. 4. dialo. 20. & Isiodo. de ordi. create. And although, the place of this torment, and the nature thereof, be not certainly determined, nor known to any, but such as God of his wisdom list reveal it unto, yet it is with great probability and likelihood, thought of such learned men as deserve singular credit, that it is in the lower rooms, as sinus Abrahae, may appear by scripture to have been, and separated from hell as it was: because all places of punishment after this life, be called of holy writers, conformably to scripture, Inferna. But with curious search of these things, as we be not charged, so to believe that justice is there done upon sinners, by much sorrow and torment of their souls, by the authority of God's word and Church, we are of necessity induced. The care and consideration whereof, if it take deep impression in our minds, I am sure it shall work exceeding great change in our whole life and manners. 2 Here we are taught what the difference is between the pains of hell and purgatory. This difference is not in quality nor quantity, but in respect of continuance, and of the persons. The one is eternal, the other temporal, they that are in one, are desperate and impatient, the other in hope and patience without sin or danger of sinning. Surely if those tales were true, that are told of them that are in purgatory, there appeared in some but small patience. One that was promised by an Angel that he should tarry but 3. days in purgatory, after he had been there but one day, told the Angel to his face, that he was no Angel but a deceiver, affirming that he had been there many years. A monk that died without absolution in the absence of the Abbot, after his death was absolved, and enjoined for penance to tarry in purgatory until his body were buried, whereat he cried so horribly, that his voice was heard all over the abbey, saying, O unmerciful man, hast thou commanded me to tarry so long in purgatory? A Bishop suspended a priest for saying every day mass of requiem, but as the same Prelate went over a churchyard, the dead arose every man with such tools as they occupied in their life, threatening him, that he should die for it, he did not restore them their soul priest. Again one that promised his brother to say mass for him immediately after his death, made haste to perform his promise, as soon as the breath was out of his body: but when mass was done his brother appeared to him saying, O unfaithful brother, thou hast well deserved the curse of God for me, thou hast let me lie in torments these 20 years, and neither thou nor any of my brethren would vouchsafe to say one mass for me. If these and such like narrations, of which the popish homilies and other writings are crammed full, were true revelations, there were small patience, meekness, or love, in some of the purgatory penitentionaries. Yet M. Allen saith: these are the inferior parts, which boweth their knee and reverenceth the name of jesus, as the Apostle saith Philip. 2. For those that be in the deep hell, can not praise nor confess his blessed name as the Prophet saith: Although that which David saith, be true of the damned spirits, yet he speaketh generally of all them that are dead, which can not praise God in his Church as they do that are alive. But S. Paul to the Philip. speaketh not of any willing obedience, or joyful confession of them that be in hell, but of that which is due to the majesty of Christ, and enforced even from his enemies. For if none should bow to Christ but they that honour him willingly, and praise his holy name cheerfully, this text should not be verified of so many 1000 Turks, jews and Infidels, that now blaspheme his holy name, but in the day of judgement, unto which time the perfect accomplishment of this prophecy is referred, they with all the devils in hell, shall be brought on their knees and acknowledge that jesus is the Lord to the glory of God and their eternal confusion. And even now already S. james teacheth that the devils do tremble. But if only the souls in purgatory were meant by them that are under the earth, at the last day when Christ shall have his chief glory, and purgatory as the Papists confess, shall be abolished, then there should be none in the infernal parts, that should bow unto jesus and acknowledge his glorious majesty according to the prophecy of Esay which S. Paul expoundeth of the last judgement. Rom. 14. And therefore although M. Allens affirmation of godly men to have been in the lower parts from the beginning of the world unto the end of the same, were true, as it is most false, yet it would not answer the verity of the prophecy, when at that time there should be none, in which time the prophecy should chief be fulfilled, but of what forehead, or mouth doth this proceed? that he affirmeth that Abraham's bosom may appear by Scripture to have been in the lower rooms, though separate from hell His reason seemeth to be, because all places of punishment after this life be in Scripture called Inferna, that is, hell or the lowest places. The Scripture teacheth that Abraham's bosom was a place of comfort, separate from hell, not with a small border, like the popish limbus, but with an infinite distance 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from whence the rich glutton looking up saw Lazarus a far of in blessed estate, when he himself was in torments. But hereof I have spoken sufficiently before. 3 Therefore I shall desire all Catholic readers, as they believe this grave sentence of God to come, and fear the rod of our father's correction, that they prevent the same, by lowly submitting themselves unto the chastisement of our kind mother the Church. Who with tears in this her contempt, yet beseecheth the children of her own how should, that they would rather willingly submit themselves to her meek wand in this life, them against their wills to the heavy scourge of their angry and justly moved father, in the world to come. The penance which her ministers do charge us with all, is of itself not great, yet accepted with humility and competent dolour of heart in this time of grace, it may for the most part, if it any thing be answerable to the faults, or holpen by our own zeal, either wholly discharge us, or much ease & abridge the pain to come. Let us not stick to add unto the prescribed pain by the priest our pastor, some such fruits of repentance, as may more and more wash us from our sins: let us make friends of wicked Mammon: Let us redeem our sins, Luke. 11. Dan. 4. by alms and mercy towards the poor: Let us judge ourselves with earnest fasting, abundance of unfeigned tears, often watching and continual praying, & then doubtless we shall not be judged of our Lord. Let us detest this abominable flattering security, which this sinful school so earnestly exhorteth us unto: It is the devil no doubt, that would have man pass his time in pleasure, that he may be reserved to his everlasting pain. A small remedy by man's freedom, in God's grace here willingly accepted, may clear acquit us of great grief to come. love alone, and earnest zeal of God's house, in this multitude of forsakers, I dare say shall cover a numbered of sins: and that which by nature is but duty, in this time of temptation I take it to be great merit. Let us be circumspect therefore, and work whiles the day is here, for in the night of the next world, sinners can not help themselves, nor work one moment towards their own delivery or release. 3 Once again he desireth Catholics not to doubt of this doctrine, but to prevent the pain appointed by their angry father, with patiented receiving the chastisement of their kind mother, whose meek wand in this life, they were better to sustain, than the heavy scourge of their justly moved father after this life. In this proper antithesis, the kindness of the mother, is preferred before the anger of the father: yea the mercy of the mother, is commended above the justice of the father. It appeareth by this, that the Papists understand not what they say, when they call God father, who taketh unto him that name, to declare his mercy toward us and not his justice, his love and not his wrath, to reward us, and not to punish us, who though he chastise his children for a moment, yet doth he, not exact pains according to the measure of his justice. As for that Prosopopaeia of the mother, opposing her to the father, in word is more rhetorical, then Christian in deed, and because it is unfit for the matter, it is more of garrulity then of eloquence. The rest of the exhortations are such as we have heard before, to accept penance humbly, to add to the penance zeleously, to merit while time serveth diligently, etc. 4 And for the other sort which have been deceived by the Mermaids song, I shall humbly in our saviours blessed blood beseek them, to consider with zeal and indifferency what hath been said, and whereon it standeth. And if God himself hath in all ages chastised his best beloved people and dearest children, both here and in the next life, if the Church hath practised discipline, by his authority, upon all obedient persons, if all virtuous have charged themselves with pain, if all learned fathers have both preached and done penance, for the avoiding of pains hereafter prepared, if the word of God expressly make for this, if all learned men with out exception believed it and feared it, if it agreed with good reason, if it setforth God's justice, if it duly answer to the hatred of sin, if it raise the fear of God in man's heart, if it be the bane of proud presumption, if it be the mother of meekness, of obedience, of devotion, and of all good Christian conditions, let it for God's love, I pray thee once again, take place in thy heart, and drive out that rest and quietness of sin, which these delicate doctors, for thy present pleasure, under the colour of some honest name, have deceitfully induced thee unto. 4 The conclusion hath an exhortation to those whom he termeth deceived with the Mermaids song, to consider the weight of his arguments, whereof he maketh a short recapitulation. First if God have punished his dearest children, not only in this life, but also after this life, then let purgatory have place again: we are content, but until it may be proved out of the word of God, that he hath punished his children after this life, we are not bound by this argument. Secondly if the discipline of the Church, the exercise of the godly, the doctrine of all learned fathers that have preached or done penance, hath been for the avoiding of purgatory, then receive purgatory again. But if the end of godly discipline, be either to heal the curable by repentance in this life, or to separate the uncurable from infecting the sound, if the fruits of repentance and good works of the godly are to be referred, to the testifying of their repentance, and their faith, and to the glorifying of God, if the doctrine of all the godly, that have preached and done penance according to the word of God, have been to the same ends, we may not yet give place to admit purgatory. Thirdly if the word of God make expressly for purgatory, we would not for our lives deny it, nor doubt of it, but if the word of God do neither expressly nor by any probable collection allow, but manifestly condemn it, as blasphemous against the passion of Christ: then must we still not only exclude it from our belief, but also abhor it from our heart. fourth if all learned men without exception, believed and feared purgatory, we will also believe it and fear it, but until that may be proved, or that any godly learned ever knew of it for 200. years after Christ, we must crave pardon of M. Allen at the lest wise to suspend our judgement. Fifthly if it agreed with good reason, which agreeth with the word of God, it were reason we should receive it, but we account no reason good that is not consonant to the truth, and therefore if it can not be won by Scripture, we will not yield for any reason. Sixthly if it set forth the justice of God to answer the hatred of sin as God hath appointed, we refuse it not, but if it be blasphemous both against the righteousness of God and satisfaction for our sins answered in the sufferings of Christ, and against his unspeakable mercies, in providing such a wondered mean of so perfect redemption, we defy it and the maintainers of it. seventhly, if it raise the fear of God in man's heart, such as God alloweth, we must needs accept it, but if it raise none but a slavish and that a vain fear of torment, and diminisheth the love of God's goodness and mercy, & excludeth the peace of conscience, there is no remedy but we must still reject it. If it be the bane of proud presumption, we have cause to think well of it: but if it be the provocation of devilish presumption, to ascribe more to our merits then to the mercy of God, we acknowledge that it proceedeth from the prince of pride and presumption against God. If it were the mother of meekness, obedience, devotion and of all Christian conditions, we were to blame if we would not entertain it. But if it be the father of fables and false worship of God, the instrument of infidelity, and sleep of security, which are sworn enemies of all Christian religion, we leave it to Papists, deluded with the errors of Antichrist, and nothing convenient for the disciples and members of Christ, whose pain is their purgatory, whose suffering is their satisfaction, whose merits are their reward, which are vessels of God's mercy ordained to the praise of his glory. 5 Ask once of thine own masters: & if they be able to answer to any part of this which I have proved, but by unseemly wrasting of the Scripture, shameful denial of the doctors, or deceitful colouring of nothing, in vain words, without ground, matter or meaning, thou mayst better believe them, and miscredit me. But if thou find they shall never be able to satisfy a reasonable man in this case, than cast not thyself away willingly with them: but betime turn home to us again. I myself seek no further credit at thy hands, but as a reporter of the antiquity: But the Scripture requireth thy obedience, the Church which can not be deceived clameth thy consent, all the old fathers would have thee join with them in their constant belief. If thou did once feel what grace and gifts were, In populo gravi & Ecclesia magna, in the grave people and great Church, (as the prophet termeth God's house) or could conceive the comfort that we poor wretchies receive daily, by discipline and perfect remission of our sins, which can no where but in this house be profitably healed, thou wouldst forsake I am sure, all worldly wealth & wantoness abroad, to join with our Church again. And that the name of the Church deceive thee not: this is the true Church (saith Lactantius) In qua est religio, Lib. 4. Cap. 30. de sap. confessio, & poenitentia, quae peccata & vulncra, quibus est subiecta imbecillitas carnis, salubriter curate. In which, devotion, confession, and penance, whereby the wounds of man's frailty are profitably cured, be found. 5 Ask your own conscience M. Allen whether you have not miserably wrested the Scriptures yourself. And let all reasonable men answer whether such texts of Scriptures as you have wrested out of the true sense, I have not wrested out of your hands. And that not by shameful denial of the Doctors, but even by the testimony & exposition of the doctors themselves, with force of matter, rather, then flow of words, with plain meaning rather than with deceitful dealing. And whereas you boast yourself to be a reporter of antiquity, you have showed yourself to be a favourer of forgery and a corrupter of antiquity. As for the gracious gifts, and conceit of comfort that you brag of in your sergeant Church of hypocrites and slanderous synagogues of Satan, how so ever you paint it out, with glorious terms, we give most humble & hearty thanks to the infinite goodness of God, which hath given his holy spirit into our hearts, with perfect assurance of his favour everlasting, and hath so furnished his servants with such gifts as he hath thought sufficient for the setting forth of his praise in his Church upon earth, that we need not desire any other gifts or comfort out of his family, but only the continuance and increase of the same, which we have already in his own house, until we shall be translated from this mortal and corruptible state, to the eternal and incorruptible glory, which is laid up in heaven, for all them that wait for the appearing of the glorious God our Lord and Saviour jesus Christ, to whom be all honour and dominion both now and evermore. Amen. THE END OF THE FIRST BOOK. THE SECOND BOOK ENTREATING OF THE PRAYERS, and other ordinary relief, that the Church of Christ procureth for the souls departed. THE PREFACE OF THIS BOOK, wherein the matter of the treatise, and the order of the Authors preceding, be briefly opened. 1 WE have now tarried very long, in the consideration of God's justice & mighty scourge, not only for the everlasting outcasts, but also for the exact trial of the chosen children's ways. The beholding whereof, must needs engender some sorrow and sadness of mind: and with all, as it commonly happeth in our frailty, a certain bitter tediousness both in the writer, and the reader: though for my part, 2. Cor. 7. I will say with S. Paul, that it grieveth me never a whit, that I have in my talk given you occasion of sadness: being assured, that this present grief, may work perfect penance to undoubted salvation, But the weariness of that rough part, which might both by the weight of the matter, and also by my rude handling, quickly arise to the studious reader, I shall in this book wholly wipe away: not by art or pleasant fall of words, which in plain dealing is not much requisite, but by the singular comfort of our cause. In the continual course whereof, we shall joy more and more at the beholding of Gods passing mercy in remission of sins, and mitigatio●●f the pains, which justice enjoined. For now we must talk, how the fiery sword of God's ire may be turned from his people: Ambros. Which, as one of the fathers truly said, beareth a great show of vengeance and judgement, because it is named a fiery sword, but yet known withal, to be a turning sword, that is gladius versatilis, Rupert. in 3. cap. Genes. it shall give great cause of comfort again. O sapientes (saith devout Dasmacene) ad vos loquor, scrutamini & erudimini, quia plurimus est timor Dei domini omnium, sed multò amplior bonitas, In orat. pro defunctis. & formidabiles quidem minae, incomparabilis autem clementia: & horrenda quidem supplicia, ineffabile autem miserationum suarum pelagus. Thus he speaketh of Purgatory, and mercy: O you of the wise sort: to you do I speak, search and learn, that the fear of God the Lord of all things, is maruaillous much, A comparison of the mercy and judgement of God, towards the souls in Purgatory, & that mercy is more. but his goodness far overreacheth it: His threatening exceeding fearful, but his clemency uncomparable: the prepared punishments doubtless horrible, but the bottomless ●ea of his mercies is unspeakable, so said he. Therefore if our sins forgiven were never so grievous, or our vicious life so far wasted in idle wealth, that space of fructefull penance, and opportunity of well working, by the nights approaching and our Lords sodden calling, be taken away, (in which long differing of our amendment, heavy and sore execution must needs for justice sake be done) yet let us not mistrust, but God measureth his judgement with clemency, and hath ordained means to procure mercy, and mitigate that sentence, even in the midst of that fiery doungion: that the vessels of grace and the redeemed flock, may worthily sing both mercy & judgement to our gracious God, who in his anger forgetteth not to have compassion, neither withdraweth his pity in the midst of his ire. Psal. 76. For this imprisonment endureth no longer than our debts be paid, this fire wasteth no further, than it findeth matter to consume, this dis●riet & wise flame (as some of the fathers before termed it) chastiseth no longer, than it hath cause to correct. Yea often before this fire by course of justice can cease, God quencheth it with his sons blood, recompenseth the residue by our masters merits, and accepteth the careful cry of our mother the Church, for h●r children in pain. The memory of Christ's death, lively and effectually setforth in the sovereign mysteries upon the Altar in earth, The motions of God's mercy, In releasing or mitigation of the pain of Purgatory. Psal. 76. entereth up to the presence of his seat, and procureth pardon in heaven above. the merits of all saints, the prayer of the faithful, the works of the charitable, both earnestly ask, and undoubtedly find mercy and grace at his hand. For of such the Prophet David asketh: Nunquid in aeternum proijciet Deus, aut continebit in ira sua misericordias suas? Will God cast them away for ever, or will he shut up his mercy, when he is angry? Li. 1 de poenit. cap. 1. Not he will not: so saith S. Ambrose: Deus quos proijcit non in aeternum proijcit: God casteth of many, whom he doth not everlastingly for sake. Then let us seek the ways of this so merciful a Lord, that we may take singular comfort therein ourselves, against the day of our account, and endeavour mercifully to help our dear brethren so afflicted: jest if we use not compassion towards them, we justly receive at God's hand, for the reward of our unmercifulness, judgement and justice with out mercy. THE SECOND BOOK TO THE PREFACE. 1 YOu have tarried longer in consideration of God's justice, then is agreeable to the matter of his mercy, which is the death of his only son our Lord and Saviour Christ. And now you will mollify the hardness of that handling, with the sorry comfort of your unchristian cause. Wherein you have more regard to the heating of your own hearth, then to the cooling of the silly souls, to kindle a good fire in your own kitchen, then to quench the flames of purgatory. But as I have noted before, that you have hitherto kept this order for the most part, to plant one thing in one chapter, and then to pull it up by the roots in the next, so you have not forgotten yourself in the division of your books. But that the latter should be a sufficient confutation of the former, or else the former a manifest excluding of the latter. For if the justice of God doth so necessarily require a punishment for sins remitted, that the same could not be satisfied, not not by that only sacrifice, which the son of God offered once for all, on the altar of the cross: it is a cold comfort that a careful conscience can receive, that the same should be done by his merits, or your Masses, which was not done by the blood of Christ Yet now you will talk how the fiery sword may be turned away, surely if the fiery and shaking sword that was set to exclude man from Paradise, was not taken away by the death of Christ, when he opened Paradise, yea the kingdom of heaven whereof Paradise was but a sacrament, unto all believers, I marvel how either the penitent these had passage into Paradise, or what engines you Papists have to turn it away, which he had not. The words of Damascene if they were not applied (as you say they are) to purgatory pains and remedies of the same, were true of God's justice and his mercy, but as his age is to young, so his authority is to light, to control the truth of the word of God, or the practice of the first & purest Church, which knew no purgatory, nor prayers for the dead. But if our sins forgiven were never so grievous, etc. what mad man would ever writ thus? Even such a one as might be allowed to speak thus: if black were never so black before it were clean taken away and perfect white placed in the steed, yet when white is white, it is white. But M. Allen will not allow that the colour of our sins is clean taken away and a contrary colour of righteousness set upon us, but that sins forgiven, be but half forgiven, the guilt taken away, the punishment due for the guilt, still remaining. And this one half of forgiveness, is but granted in words, and denied in deed. For if the guilt of our sins be clean taken away from us, and laid upon the person of Christ, and the righteousness of Christ is communicated unto us, what is there left in us that God of his goodness can hate or of his justice can punish? So it is but for a fashion, that the papists grant any part of our sins forgiven, when they will have us make satisfaction for them ourselves. But where as M. Allen is out of measure prodigal in promising releiffe and release of purgatory pains to them whose sins were never so grievous, their vicious life wasted in idle wealth, the space of penance and opportunity of working neglected in time, prevented by sudden death &c: rehearsing so many means of mitigation, as sometime the blood of Christ, the residue of his merits, the cry of the mother Church, the memory of the Mass, the merits of all Saints, the prayers of the faithful and works of the charitable: All this notwithstanding take heed you poor Papists, that you give no credit to these flattering words. For it is the opinion of all the old writers, that do allow any of these things, to profit men after their death, and concluded by the Master of the Sentence, and advouched by Allen himself afterward chapt. 7. that no man can receive benefit after his departure, by any work or will of the living, but he that in his life deserved the same, neither shall any thing work upon him more or less, but according to his own deserving in this life. Trust not therefore in these sophistical vanities, which are contrary one to an other, but embrace the uniform & undoubted doctrine of God's word, which teacheth repentance, faith, justification, and salvation, not with curious questions to trouble your brains, but with perfect conclusions to quiet your conscience, not suffering you to sleep in security upon hope of help after your death, but charging you to show the force of mortification and fruits of faith while you are alive. Not puffing up your fantasy with pride of your own merits, but teaching you to ascribe all praise to God's glorious grace, and infinite mercy. 2 The cruel adversary of man kind, as before he wrought his worst against Purgatory, so here he busily pricketh forward the school of Protestants, to improve to their own utter damnation, and the notable hindrance of our loving brethren's salvation, all such means as God by scripture or other testimony. of his word, hath revealed to be profitable for the abating of pain, or the release of the appointed punishment, in that place of temporal torment to come. Against which deceivers, I mean by God's help in this ordre to travel. 2 The cruel adversary of mankind, and enuyor of God's glory, invented Purgatory to deface the merits of Christ's death, and to blemish the only means of man's, eternal life, which when he could not with any seemly colour establish, by the authority of the holy Scriptures, the only testimony of his word and will revealed and confirmed by his holy Spirit, he hath invented feigned fables and devilish illusions to deceive the minds of them whom he had inclined unto superstition, and not been ashamed to match them in credit and estimation with the very word of God itself. As appeareth by this scribe of Satan, which nameth the scriptures for a simple show, but by and by addeth other testimonies of God's word, beside the scriptures inspired by God: whereby he maketh equivalent, those false revelations raised up from Hell, with the inspiration of the holy Ghost which hath brought the truth from heaven. But now cometh in the order of this devilish horror. 3 First I will prove, that sins may be pardoned, or the debt and bond thereof released, in the next world. 3 You shall never prove by authority of God's word that sins not repented in this life, shallbe pardoned after this life, where there is no repentance profitable, nor yet any debt paid but by them that pay it eternally in perpetual torments. 4 Then I shall show what means the holy Scripture approveth, A brief note of the contents and principal points of this book. or the example thereof awarraunteth to be profitable for the souls departed. 4 When you can prove either by doctrine, or example agreeable to doctrine of the canonical Scriptures, that any thing profiteth the souls departed that be not in happy state, we will believe it. 5 I will open what the principal pillars, and in a manner the flower of all the faithful sort in sundry agies, and almost in all Christian country's, have left in writing for this point. 5 You are not able to bring one authentical writer, that within one 100 years and more after Christ, hath allowed prayer for the dead, or any point of purgatory. 6 I will declare what they practised for their dearest friends privately, and what the Churches of most notable Nations used for all deceased in Christ's faith, in their public service openly: I shall prove unto you, that the practice of suffrages and Sacrifice for the dead, isshued down to us from the Apostles days. 6 You shall not prove that either in public or private prayers, the dead were commended otherwise then by way of thanks giving for their departure, or that any suffrages or sacrifice was offered for them by the Apostles or their lawful successors, or many years after the Apostles times. 7 I shall point you to the first father of the contrary doctrine, and his principal abettors, in such troublesome times at such merchants were to be found. You shall see them known amongst all the holy of their time by the name of heretics. 7 You shall show no heretic that denied your doctrine, but I will show you other heretics before him that allowed it. 8 You shall see their doctrine improved, and themselves condemned, by the grave judgement of councils, both General & provincial, for heretics. If any of them all can say any thing, to the contrary of that, which we upon so good grounds maintain, he shall be answered with no worse, than the very words of the holy ancient writers. Finally, if any other things be necessary beside, for the declaration of this matter to the simple, or for proof against our adversaries, they shall not be omitted: as occasion, by course and fall of the matter, may be given. All which points being avouched and not proved, shall condemn me of arrogancy: But both avouched, and fully proved, they shall deserve any reasonable man's consent, and bear testimony of the adversaries impudence here, and witness of their contempt of God's approved truth, in the world to come. 8 How vain your brag is of general counsels, it appeareth by this, that with in fouretene hundredth years after Christ, you can find none to serve your turn, until you come to the councils Florins and Trent, whereof the one was held in our grandfathers days, the other within these 20. years, your provincial councils shall be answered by as good provincial councils as they are. And that which I have to say in confutation of your heresy, shall be no worse than the very word of God itself, which is better than the consent of all the world against it. And although the custom of praying for the dead, be an ancient error, so that few of the latter writers there are, but they show themselves to be infected therewith, yet hath it not such an universal consent of all writers, but that I shall be able by God's grace to show that the most ancient and nearest to the Apostles time, received it not, and that they which of later time admitted it, had neither any ground out of the Scriptures to warrant their doing, nor any certainty of faith to assure their conscience, which when it is found in the end, as it is now said in the beginning, your arrogant boasting and impudent lying together with the falsehood of your opinions, shall be manifest to all men. That there be certain sins, which may be forgiven in the next life, and that the deserved punishment for the same, may be eased, or utterly released, before the extreme sentence be to the utmost executed. CAP. I 1 ANd first, that sins may be pardoned in the next world, that were not in this life forgiven, our saviours own words do teach us, Cap. 1●. written in the Gospel of S. Matthew thus: Ideò dico vobis: omne peccatum & blasphemia remittetur hominibus, spiritus autem blasphemia non remittetur. Et quicumque dixerit verbum contra filium hominis, remittetur ei: qui autem dixerit contra spiritum sanctum, non remittetur ei neque in hoc saeculo, neque in fu●uro. I tell you, that all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but the blasphemy of the spirit, shall not be forgiven. And who so ever shall speak against the son of man, it shall be forgiven him: But if he speak against the holy Ghost, it shall neither be pardoned in this world, nor in the world to come. The same thing in sense, hath Mark and Luke, affirming that such offence shall never be forgiven. Cap. 3. Cap. 12. The which word Never, S. Mark expresseth thus, in aeternum non habet remissionem, he shall not have pardon (as you would say) in all eternity, by which he may plainly seem, to reach further than the limits and borders of this world, for the remission of sin. And this speech hath as much pith and proper force in it, as S. Matthewes, who expressly, distinctly, and belike as Christ spoke it, uttereth that sense of the eternity, which passeth the measure of worldly time, by these words: Neither in this world, nor yet in the world to come. And for that cause S. Mark saith, Reus erit aeterni delicti, he shall be guilty of an eternal fault, signifying that in some case a man might perhaps not speed of a pardon in this life, & yet may obtain it in the next: But for that horrible blasphemy, he in a manner dischargeth the offender of all hope of remission, either in this life, or in the next that is to come. Which form of words can neither be found in scripture, nor in man's common talk, to have any place in such things as extend no further but to the transitory time of our life: for in those matters, it had been usually, and truly spoken, it shall never happen in this world. And therefore instructing us, that sins, or the pain due unto sins, may either be released in this world, or in the world to come, he followeth that phrase and form of words, in which man might well conceive the reach of remission and pardoning of sins, far to pass the compass of our time, and life. CAP. I 1 YOu were as good to kindle a fire out of y●e and snow, as to go about to frame your fiery forge of purgatory out of this place. The meaning of our Saviour Christ is so plain, & his words so express, that no reasonable man can gather any error out of them. For undoubtedly the error of purgatory was first invented before this place was drawn unto it. So is there no heresy so absurd, which Satan putteth into the head of wicked men, but it may find some sound of words in so many books of the holy Scriptures, that by perverse wit may be wrested unto it. But the doctrine of God's truth and all articles of our belief, are plainly taught in the Scripture, either by manifest words, or by necessary conclusion and argument, which by no subtlety of Satan or his instruments, may be avoided or deluded. And this is the difference between heresy and truth, when they both appeal to the authorities of the Scripture. Truth as she hath her foundation in the Scriptures, and in them is learned, so hath she perpetual confirmation in the same, and nothing contrary unto her. But heresy as she is invented in man's head, so she seeketh confirmation in the reason and authority of man, which because they have not full credit with them that profess religion, without the authority of God's word, at length when it is fully shaped, in the shop of man's brain, than it is brought to the Scripture, to see if it can find any colour, by any phrase of words wrested from the meaning, or by any vain collection, that hath no force of necessary conclusion, being content to have but only a cold claim unto the authority of Scripture, although it have the whole scope and purpose of the holy Ghost, yea often times also manifest words against it, which difference as it may be found in all heresies, so in none more notably, then in this error of purgatory. Consider what texts of holy Scripture are alleged for it, and you shall see they can not bring one, out of which any necessary argument may be framed to prove their cause, or which hath not by learned interpreters of the old time been otherwise expounded then of their cause. As in the text here alleged out of S. Matt. cap. 12. who so ever shall speak blasphemy against the holy ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world nor in the world to come. If the sense were not plain of itself, that he which so sinneth shall not obtain forgiveness in this life, nor be absolved in the last judgement: yet the other Evangelists do plainly expound the meaning. S. Luke saith simply, he shall not be forgiven. S. Mark saith he hath no remission for ever, but is guilty of everlasting judgement. Nevertheless behold what a wrangling M. Allen maketh about the interpretation of these words. But I will offer him fair play, he is an ancient master of art, & since he writ this book, he hath added ten years to his study of divinity, in which space he might have been a doctor of the same faculty, let him with all the divinity that ever he studied, or with all the arts that ever he professed, make a true syllogism in form and matter, out of this authority, to prove that God forgiveth sins after this life, which are not remitted in this life, and I will confess the doctrine of purgatory with him, which otherwise I would not do to win all the patrimony of S. Peter that the Pope claimeth in Italy: but until such time as we may obtain a good argument, let us consider such as we have. He signifieth (saith M. Allen) that a man in some case, might perhaps not speed of a pardon in this life, & yet may obtain it in the next: when the matter goeth by perhaps, it is good to beware of after claps, why M. Allen, what sins are those of which a man may perhaps not speed of a pardon in this life, and yet obtain it after this life? If they be truly repented in this life, we have a warrant of Gods own mouth without, your perhaps, that in the same hour they shall be remitted. Ezech. 18. & 33. But if they be not repented, where is your warrant that ever they shall be remitted. But I ask again, what sins are those that perhaps may miss of a pardon in this life, and obtain it after this life? by all likelihood they must be some great sins, that perhaps may not speed of a pardon here, and yet find it afterward. There is no man would think otherwise, by these words, nor by the words of Christ, if he understood them so, that some sins might be forgiven after this life, but when all cometh to all. The Master of the Sentence and Gregory before him, and M. Allen himself would allow no sins to be forgiven after this life, but very small and light offences. How be it it is plain, that these words (neither in the world to come) are added by way of amplification: for it is the purpose of our Saviour Christ, to set forth to the uttermost, the heinousness of blasphemy against the holy Ghost, so that if he had meant that any sins might be remitted after this life, that were not pardoned after this life, he should have meant the greater and not the lesser, for less sins be sooner pardoned and the pardon of greater more hardly obtained. But mark the equity of M. Allen, the horrible blasphemer for all the vehemency of Christ's words, by M. Allens judgement is but in a manner discharged of hope of remission, as though he were not simply and altogether excluded. And the light offender is turned over to purgatory, for his remission: yet M. Allen will stand upon the form & phrase of words, not knowing, that this world is taken for all the time that is unto the end thereof, and the world to come, not for the state or time of them that are departed unto the judgement, but for the time of eternity after the end of this world, or else the words of Christ in Matthew should not be equivalent with the words in Mark, he shallbe guilty of everlasting judgement or condemnation, which the old interpreter calleth eternal offence. The like form or phrase of words is used by S. Paul to the Ephesians cap. 1. that Christ is exalted above every name that is named, not only in this world but also in the world to come: by which words he meaneth the supreme and everlasting kingdom of Christ, which extendeth unto all eternity. But if a contentious person like to the Valentiniane heretics, or such like, would invent monstrous names as those heretics did, and prove by this place that there are names named in the world to come, that are not named in this world, should he not have as good ground out of this place as the Papists have of the other? 2 But because we have to do with fickle merchants, that will not stick to braced boldly the bands of evident scriptures, as anon you shalt see, and therefore, will (as I think) little be moved with reasonable and plain gathering out of the scriptures: nor much esteem this likelihood, as over small a proof in so great a doubt, therefore I will show my warrant for this construction, that thereby the studious reader may see, whom the adversaries do so rashly contemn herein: and whom we have as authors, in this meaning of Christ's words now recited: that neither they may be believed with out reason and proof, nor we miscredited, after so good authority of the ancient writers, as neither they for shame, nor we of conscience can deny. S. Gregory, whose authority I may boldly use against them, because they mislike not his judgement, when it may appear to make for them, (as in deed it never doth) he doubted nothing to gather of this our saviours speech that sins might be forgiven in the next world. And thus he writeth for that point. De quibusdam levibus culpis, Lib. 4. dialog. cap. 19 esse ante judicium purgatorius ignis credendus est, pro eo quod veritas dicit: Si quis in sancto Spiritu blasphemiam dixerit, neque in hoc saeculo remittetur ei, neque in futuro. In qua sententia datur intelligi, quasdam culpas in hoc saeculo, quasdam in futuro posse relaxari: quod enim de uno negatur, consequens intellectus patet, quia de quibusdam conceditur, sed tamen, ut praedixi, hoc de parvis minimisque peccatis, fieri posse credendum est. For certain small sins, that there is a purgatory fire before the day of judgement, we must needs believe: because the truth itself, uttered so much in these words: If any sin against the holy Ghost, it shall not be remitted, neither in this world, nor in the world to come. By which sentence it is given us to understand, that, as some offences be released in this world, so there may some other be remitted in the life following. For that which is denied in one sort, the meaning is plain, that of some other kind it must needs be granted. But, as is said before, this is only to be taken of lighter offences, Only small offences be remitted in the next life. thus far spoke S. Gregory: and proveth learnedly beside, by examples and sundry Scriptures through out the whole work, our matter. If our adversaries would with desire to learn, as they commonly do to reprehend, read but his discourse only, they might quickly see their own folly, and amend their misbelief. They call him the last good Pope, as he was in deed a blessed man: and by his authority the perfect conversion of our nation to Christ's faith, was wrought. I would his holy works deserved but as much credit now, with certain forsakers, as his Legates then did, with all the unfaithful people of our country. But to go forward in our matter, we shall find in S. Bernarde, the same words of our Saviour alleged for our purpose, thus: Serm 66. in Canti. Non credunt ignem Purgatorium restare post mortem, sed statim animam solutam a corpore, vel ad requiem transire, vel ad damnationem: quaerant ergo ab eo, qui dixit quod dam peccatum esse, quod neque in hoc saeculo, neque in futuro remittetur: cur hoc dixerit, si nulla manner in futuro remissio purgatione peccati? They believe not (saith he, by some heretics of his own time) that there is any purgatory pains remaining after death, but they suppose that the soul strait upon departure hence, goeth either to rest, or damnation: let such fellows ask therefore of him, that said, a certain grievous crime could neither be forgiven in this world, nor in the world to come, why he so said, if there were no remission nor purgation of sins, in the life following? thus said Bernarde, opening his grave judgement both upon the text, and our matter: whose authority, if any esteem less, because of his late writing, let him know, that the adversaries have none for their side so ancient by C C C. year, except they name the heretic Aërius, or such like, whose antiquity maketh not so much for them, as his ancient condemnation for heresy in this point, maketh against them. 2 M. Allen in his conscience knoweth, that he hath no ground in the authority of God's word, and therefore he flieth to the authority of man. But that he might seem to be driven perforce to that where unto he doth come most willingly, he pretendeth a fond excuse, because he hath to do with such fickle merchants, as will not stick to break boldly the bands of evident Scriptures. But he knoweth in his conscience that he hath no authority of Scripture to charge us, for if he thought we would break the bonds of God's word, he might well think, we would not be holden by the authority of men's writing, and those of the latter sort, six hundredth years after Christ, the eldest. For Augustine maketh as little for them, as he doth against us. Gregory and Bernarde, whereunto he addeth Bede, are of opinion that sins not remitted in this world, may be remitted in the world ●o come, but how happeneth it, that Chrys●stome and jeronym which both interpreted that place, could gather no such matter, although they otherwise allowed prayer for the dead? The reason must needs be, because the error of purgatory growing so much the stronger, as it was nearer to the full revelation of Antichrist, Gregory and Bede sought not the true meaning of Christ in this Scripture, but the confirmation of their pausible error. M. Allen thinketh we must be sore pressed with the authority of Gregory, because we mislike not his authority, where he inveigheth against the supremacy of one Bishop above all other, or where so ever he agreeth with the truth. But he must be once again admonished, that we are bound to no man's authority, no longer than he followeth the authority of God's word And therefore though Gregory were the last of all the Romish Bishops, in whom was any spark of goodness, because Boniface his successor and so all the rest, by Gregoryes own judgement & prophecy were all Antichrist's: yet is not all that Gregory writ, of equal authority with the word of God, without authority whereof, we believe not an Angel from heaven, as I have often showed, much less a Bishop of Rome. 3 But that in the mouth of two or three witnesses all truth may appear, and contrary falsehood vanish away: S. Augustine himself, gathered by this place now alleged, even then when he had no occasion given him, by the wrangling of any misbeliever, to wrest any scripture otherwise then the very words imported, the truth of remission of certain faults in the next life, in these words, Cap. 24. lib. 21. de civit. Facta resurrectione mortuorum, non deerunt, quibus, post poenas quas patiuntur spiritus mortuorum, impertiatur misericordia, ut in ignem non mittantur aeternum, neque enim de quibusdam veraciter diceretur, quod non eyes remittetur neque in hoc saeculo neque in futuro, nisi essent, quibus etsi non in isto, tamen remittetur in futuro. There shall be certain at the time of resurrection also, who shall obtain mercy, after they have suffered such pains as dead men's ghosts do abide, that they be not cast into the everlasting fire: for else it could not in any true sense be spoken, that certain should neither have pardon in this world, nor in the world to come, except there were some, that speeding not of pardon in this life, might yet have remission in the next: so saith he. Being, I warrant you, so sad witted and so far from fantasies, that he would not ground any assured doctrine, upon every light occasion offered, or motion made: had not the very words and form of phrase, approved it, and God's Church liked it. Having then these grave fathers with others, Beda in 3. Cap. Marci. for our warrant in the exposition of this place, we do take it for a sure ground, that the pain of purgation in the next world may be remitted, that is to say, either made less, or else wholly released: before the due execution of God's sentence be extremely done. For it is not meant, Sometimes God's justice is answered fully by the pain of the party. that the freedom which man may have after full answer and payment of his sins, in that place of punishment temporal, should be properly termed a remission, or pardon: For that is answerable to God's justice: and although there were no prayers or other ways of help, yet the patiented by toleration, in time, might, under the protection of Christ's merits, make full satisfaction, and so be discharged. who being a vessel of mercy, can not be damned. But when we say, that sins may be forgiven in the next world, God's Church (which is the mother of all believers) teacheth us, that some part, as well of the rigour and extremity of the pain, as of the time and continuance thereof (though God himself hath appointed that punishment) may yet be merciful released. 3 S. Augustine is much beholding to you, that you give men to wit, that when he was wrangled withal by any misbeliever, he had occasion to wrist the Scripture, otherwise then the words imported, so you judge of him, because he would not for your pleasure, expound the fire of trial. 1. Cor. 3. For your fire of purgatory. But concerning this testimony of Augustine, it maketh not so much against us, but it maketh as little for you. For if you have translated his words according to his meaning, (as you have not according to his words) he understandeth by this place remission of the pains, and not of the sins, which helpeth you nothing to that which you have taken in hand to prove, that sins are forgiven after this life. And so he seemeth to say in the 13. chapter of the same book. Non autem omnes veniunt in sempiternas poenas, quae post illud judicium his sunt futurae, qui post mortem sustinent temporales, nam quibusdam quod in isto non remittitur, remitti in futuro saeculo, id est ne futuri saeculi aeterno supplicio puniantur iam ante dixi. All they come not into everlasting pains which after that judgement shall be to them, that after death suffer temporal pains, for I have said already, that unto some, that which is not remitted in this world, is remitted in the world to come, that is, that they should not be punished in the world to come. In these words he speaketh of release of pains but not of forgiveness of sins. But in the place by you alleged, if the words be truly translated according to the discourse of that chapter, he affirmeth, that after the resurrection & those pains which the spirits of the dead do suffer, there shall be some upon whom mercy shall be bestowed, so that they shall not be cast into eternal fire, etc. So that Augustine in this place, speaketh not of such sins as are remitted in purgatory, but of such persons as are forgiven in the last judgement, when purgatory is ended. Wherefore though Augustine erred in this place, yet he erred from your cause. And whereas you affirm in the margin, that sometime God's justice is answered fully by the pain of the party: you are contrary to the rest of your family, for they hold that the general prayers and sacrifices of your mother Church do help them. Yea the master of the sentence holdeth, that a poor man having equal merits with a rich man, though there be no special prayers, masses, fasting or alms done for him, is holpen as well by the common alms and prayers, as the rich man for whom special prayers and large alms are done. lib. 4. dist. 45. For otherwise the opinion of merits could not stand. And unless M. Allen think that all such masses and prayers in which the dead are generally commended be unprofitable, his proposition can not stand by his own learning. That the faithful souls in Purgatory being now past the state of deserving, and not in case to help themselves, may yet receive benefit by the works of the living, to whom they be perfectly knit as fellow members of one body. CAP. II 1 But now what means may be found, to ease our brethren departed, of their pain? or what ways can be acceptable in the sight of God to procure mercy and grace, where the sufferers themselves, being out of the state of deserving and place of well working, can not help themselves: nor by any motion of mind, attain more mercy▪ than their life past did deserve? Where shall we then find ease for them? surely no where else, but in the unity and knot of that holy fellowship, in which, the benefit of the head pertaineth to all the members: & every good work of any one member, wonderfully redoundeth to all the rest. This society is called in our Crede, communio Sanctorum, the communion of Saints, that is to say a blessed brotherhood under Christ the head, by love and religion so wrought and wrapped together, that what any one member of this fast body hath, the other lacketh it not: what one wanteth, the other supplieth: when one smarteth, 1. Cor. 12. all feeleth in a manner the like sorrow: when one joyeth, the other rejoiceth withal. This happy society, is not impaired by any distance of place, August. epi. 23. by diversity of God's gifts, by inequality of estates, nor by change of life: so far as the unity of God's spirit reacheth, so far this fellowship extendeth, this city is as large, as the benefit of Christ's death taketh place. Yea within all the compass of his kingdom, this fellowship is found. The souls and saints in heaven, Idem tract. 32. in joan. the faithful people in earth, the chosen children that suffer chastisement in purgatory, are, by the perfect bond of this unity, as one aboundeth, ready to serve the other, as one lacketh, to crave of the other. The souls happily promoted to the joy of Christ's blessed kingdom, The christian communion and fellowship is expressed. in this unity and knot of love, perpetually pray for the doubtful state, of their own fellows beneath: the careful condition of the members below, continually crieth for help at their hands in heaven above. Now the members of Christ's Church here yet traveling in earth, they pray together, they fast together, they desire together, they deserve together. Christ our head, in whose blood this city and society stands, will have no work nor way of salvation, that is n●t common to the whole body in general, and peculiarly profitable, to supply the need of every part thereof. He which instituted the blessed sacraments, will have them in this unity to work in common, (as far as the end of each of their institutions requireth) and out of it, to have no force at all: he that maketh all our works acceptable, though they be done of one, will have them pertain to all: the holy sacrifice of the Church, by the will of the author, and the likeness of the exemplar (as in deed being in an other manner, the very self same) is made so common, that it joineth the Saints and Angels in heaven, to the chosen and elect people, either in earth, The souls departed in p●ety are of our church & fellowship. or under the earth beneath. And that this holy consent of good works, and mutual agreement of prayer, to the continual supplying of each others lacks, doth also appertain to the souls departed, no man that hath any sense of this happy community, can deny: for being members of our common body, they must needs be partakers of the common utility. CAP. II 1 IF you ask me by what means they may be relieved, whom the blood of Christ hath not purged, from all their sins, surely I must answer you plainly as I have learned in the scripture, that there is no name given under heaven, by which they may be helped, which are not helped by Christ's death Act. 4. But you have merits of men, to help the merits of Christ. O blasphemy! they that can not be justified by their own merits, by the virtue of them, shall help to justify other. But this is worthy to be noted, that they which are in purgatory, can not by any motion of mind, attain more mercy, than their life passed deserved. Therefore faith either is not in them, or else p●ofitteth them nothing, for that is a notable motion of the mind. Then the merits of other men must profit with out faith or else they profit them not all. But with out faith it is not possible that they should profit them, for as much as with out faith it is not possible to please God, Heb. 13. therefore it is not possible that other men's works alive should profit them that are dead. But we have an other shift sought out to serve them, that is the communion of Saintes. What manner of communion is that which is with out faith? But because M. Allen bringeth in the communion of saints. I must show where in the same consisteth. The communion of saints is considered either of the whole body of the church, or else of the Church militant here on earth. The communion of the whole body, is the participation of life and all other offices of life, that every member and the whole body hath of the head, as S. Paul teacheth plainly Ephes. 4. The communion of saints here on earth, as it is a pa●te of the whole communion, so the whole Virtue cometh also from the head, and the members have but the administration thereof, according to the measure and office of every one. So that when we speak of the universal Church, we believe that all the elect of God are one mystical body, that so liveth by Christ, that it is not possible for any one member thereof to perish: when we speak of the communication of the faithful hear on earth, we mean the dispensation of the grace and gifts of God, which as every one hath received of God, so of charity he is bound to employ the same, to the profit of his fellow members here on earth: what place is here to merit for them that are dead, when one can not merit for an other that is alive, not not for himself, but every man hath his worthiness of Christ: this is the doctrine of the scripture: the other participation of merits is a mere devise of men, having no foundation in the word of God, so that M. Allen himself can not vouch so much as one text of scripture to warranty, where in he can have any colour for such communion of merits. For that which S. Paul writeth 1. Cor. 12. is manifestly understood of the mutual offices of love, whereby one member hath compassion with an other, & by no means teacheth either the estate of the dead, or the merits of the living. Of like credit it is, that he so constantly affirmeth that the Saints in heaven pray for their fellows beneath, and that they below pray for the help of the Saints above: moreover that Christ our head by whose blood the society standeth, will have no work nor way of salvation that is not common to the whole body in general, and particularly profitable to supply the need of any part thereof. Here you see by a plain distribution that M. Allen will have other works and ways of salvation, beside the blood of Christ. These things being only affirmed and not proved by the authority of Scriptures, although I might confute at large by the same, yet it shall suffice to answer with that ancient father: That which hath no authority in the Scriptures, is as easily denied as it is affirmed. But it is a world to see what a compass you fetch, to bring in the Mass, for one of the special means. It was wont to be a sacrifice propitiatory both for the quick and the dead, now you have nicer terms for it. Now: it is the sacrifice of the Church. By whom instituted I pray you? which by the will of the author: if you make God the author, where have you one syllable in the Scripture to declare his will? but that which followeth passeth: By the likeness of the exemplar (as in deed being in an other manner the very self same.) What is this that I hear? doth the Mass aveyle because it is like the exemplar? if you mean the sacrifice of Christ his passion to be the exemplar, the mass is as like it as an apple is like an oyster, for all the apish pageants that be played in it. We read in the Scriptures, that all the sacrifices of the old law, with the tabernacle, were made conformable to the exemplar and pattern that was showed unto Moses which was Christ Exod. 25. Heb. 8. Act. 7. But that there should be any more shadows, or resemblances, when the body and substance itself is come, it is contrary to the whole scope of the Epistle to the hebrews. M. Allen hath a shift for that, saying it is the very self same in an other manner. But he is so deep in divinity, that he forgetteth his first principles of logic. For every boy in Oxford can tell him, that those things which be like, can not be the same. If therefore the Mass be like the sacrifice of Christ, then is it not the sacrifice of Christ itself. Again the exemplar and the example be proper relatives, therefore if the sacrifice of Christ be the exemplar whereof the Mass is the example, the Mass can not be the sacrifice of Christ. Neither will it help, that he saith, It is the self same in an other manner, so long as the same respect remaineth. But let him make of his Mass what he can, the Church of God instructed by God's word receiveth no more sacrifices propitiatory, but only the sacrifice of Christ his death, which was offered by no other, but by himself, and that once for all. Seeing that by one oblation he hath made perfect for ever, those that are sanctified: Hebr. 10. 2 And so saith S. Augustine in these words. Neque enim piorum animae mortuorum separantur ab ecclesia, Lib. 20. de civit. Cap. 9 quae & nunc est regnum Christi: alioquin nec ad altar dei fieret eorum memoria, in communione corporis Christi: for the souls of the faithful deceased, be not severed from the Church, which is already the kingdom of Christ, else there should be no memory kept for them at the altar, in the communion of the body of Christ. By the force of this unity, what so ever is profitably practised in this world one for another, as prayer, alms, fasting, Sacrifice, the same thinks may and aught, by the example of the Church, to be carefully and with out ceasing procured for the help of our friends, and Christian brethren departed. And Athanasius that great pillar, he by a marvelous fit example setteth forth, how the souls in an other world, may have the benefits of the Church or Christian people, derived down unto them, and what sensible feel of release they have, Quaest. ad Ant. 34. when we desire God for them. Quemadmodum cum in campo vinea virescit, & vinum in vase occlusum rebullit, ac propemodum feruet: ita etiam ●entimus, quod peccatorum animae divinis beneficijs incruentae Hostiae, & gratiarum actionis pro ipsis habitae, gaudeant: ut idem solus novit & ordinat deus noster, qui in vivos & mortuos dominium exercet. As when the vine abroad in the field doth spring and wax green, The communion expressed betwixt the live and the dead, by the natural agreement betwixt the vine in the field & the wine in the vessel. the wine salfely kept in barrels at home, doth also work in itself, and in a manner buyle: even so, as we judge, the souls of sinners, through the benefit of the unbloody host, and sacrifice of thanks giving done for them, may wax joyful and glad: as the same Lord and God only knoweth how, and hath ordained: who exerciseth his might, upon the live and the dead. See I pray you how he by the action of God's Church in the holy Mass, in which the unbloody host and oblation is bestowed, hath found some way, of carrying down the benefit of Christ's passion, upon the members of his body beneath. And though some have wickedly sought, utterly to break the band of peace betwixt them and us, as they have cursedly shaken thunity of the living amongst themselves, yet their mother Christ's sp●use, acknowledgeth her own children still: she seeth by the spirit of God (whereby she seeth all truth) the sorrow of her dearest, so far out of sight, but never out of mind, she in a manner feeleth a part of her own body in pain. And can not otherwise do, but by all possible means and approved ways, assay God's mercy for their delivery. And this natural compassion of the Church, passeth through every member thereof, and aught to move every man, by the law of nature, to procure as much help as he may. And so much the more, do we own this natural duty unto them, because they now can not help themselves, being out of the state of deserving, and place of well working, only abiding God's mercy, in the sore sufferance of pains untolerable. They themselves, as yet your brethren, and a portion of your body, require to be partakers of your benefits. They feel ease of every prayer: your alms quensheth their heat, your fasting releaseth their pain: your sacrifice wipeth their sins and sores: so strong is the communion of saints, that, what so ever you do that is acceptable, it ishueth abundantly down to them. 2 When all authority out of God's word faileth you, whereby you should prove that the souls departed receive benefit by the merits of the living, you fly to the authority of men. And fi●st Augustine must prove that the godly departed are not separated from the Church, because memory of them is made at the aultare. We nothing doubt, but that the souls of the godly departed, remain still in the body of Christ which is his church, but we ground upon better authority than the authority of Augustine, and upon better proof than the reason which he allegeth, or else we might not be so certain of it as we are. And to the similitude of Athanasius which you note to be Quaest. ad Ant. 34. I answer that in the place by you noted there is no such word nor any of his questions ad Antiochum that I can found, where so ever you had it. Although that book of questions is easily to be seen of all men and confessed of Nannus one of your own side to be none of Athanasius doing: we say that first it must be proved that the souls departed receive benefit by masses, and then we shall not strive for the manner how: but man's authority is to weak to carry away so weighty a matter. And therefore I will be as bold with you as Augustine was with the Donatists de pastoribus cap. 8. Auferantur chartae humanae sonent voces divinae. Ede mihi unam Scripturam pro part Donati. Let men's papers be removed & let the voices of God sound, show me one Scripture for Donatus side, even so M. Allen I will not stick to urge you when you lean wholly to the authority of men. Away with men's writings, let God's word be heard from you, show me but one Scripture, to prove all that you have said in this chapter of the merits of the living to profit the dead, 3 Only he that is cut of from this happy society, hath no compassion of them, nor feeleth not how they are knit unto us, by love and unity of one head, and one body. You shall hear his unnatural, and worse than heathen words: Dum mortuos a nostro contubernio subduxit dominus, Cal. Instit. nullum nobis cum illis reliquit commercium, ac ne illis quidem nobiscum. When the Lord hath taken the dead out of our company, he hath dispatched us of all intermeddling with them, or they with us. This man was borne to break the band of unity, which he hated both in the live and dead. By whose means it is now come to pass, that those which of reason might claim our aid, are unnaturally disappointed of all such remedies, whereby any comfort might to them arise. Such lack of compassion is driven into our heads, that we feel not the woe of our own fellows, our kin, our brethren, and our own members. It is a thousand year and more, sith a holy father, not having half the cause that we now have, Ad frat. in herem. 44. yet noted the people's lack of compassion towards the departed, in these words. They that lie in torment untolerable, cry out for succour, and few there be, that make answer: they woefully call, but there is none to comfort them. O brethren what a kind of cruelty is this? O how much inhumanity is this? those that in their life time suffered much sorrow for our sakes, now cry again for our aid, and we regard them not. Lo how the sick calls, and the physicians are at hand: the hog groaneth, and the whole heard groutleth with all: the poor ass falleth, and every man helps him up in haste: but the faithful alone calleth, in his grievous torments, and there is none that answereth. Lo our unkindness (saith this doctor) and lo our lack of compassion. But because all this forgetfulness, cometh by the wicked suggestion of these late devilish opinions, which maintain that the prayers of the living, or their works, do not extend to the dead in Christ: therefore, for the destruction of this unkind heresy, and planting in our hearts with the truth, the feeling of our household fellows sores, I shall prove that in all times, as well of nature, as the law and Gospel, the faithful men have ever joined in all their prayers and acceptable works, the souls departed: as unto whom, by right of their communion and fellowship in faith, the relief of God's grace and Christ's merits do appertain. Therefore, this once declared, let us except them from no painful work of the living, nor charitable deed, nor good prayer, nor sacrifice, nor tears, not nor from the inward dolour nor love of man's heart. Learn to know what it is to be in a common body, and thou shalt straight perceive, that the lest motion of thy mind, stirred by God's grace, shall be carried to the relief of that part which thou pitied, and most intended. 3 Here but that you have a pleasure to spew out your pestilent poison against that noble light of God's Church M. Caluine, is nothing that need any such exclamation which you make with open mouth, as though Caluine denied the communion of Saints, which he doth most constantly affirm even in the same place out of which you have rend those words that you so bite and tear with your venomous teeth. lib. 3. cap. 20. sect. 24. where he speaketh against invocation of Saints, who being in rest with God (he saith) are not to be drawn by the prayers, unto earthly cares of our necessities, which either they know not, or they can not help. For that office of charity which the godly do exercise in this life by praying one for an other, is grounded upon the commandment of God and upon his promise, which two things are the chief to be considered in prayer. But all these reasons concern not the dead, whom when the Lord hath removed from our company, he hath left us no intermeddling with them, nor them with us, so far as we can conceive by any conjectures. These be Caluins words by which he meaneth, that although the affection of charity remain in the dead, yet it is not showed by looking to our earthly necessities, which they know are subject to the providence of God. Moreover they have not (that we know by the Scripture) any commandment or promise to 'cause them to pray for us, neither have we any to pray to them. And this is that intermeddling which Caluine denieth to be between the dead & the living, namely such as is between them that are living among themselves. As for the exhortation of him that wrote to his brother in the desert, what so ever he was or how long so ever it be since he wrote, because it hath not authority in the word of God, I weigh it as the words of a man, whose credit in divine matters, is nothing without the word of God. What the Church of God hath ever principally practised for the souls departed, by the warrant of holy Scripture: with the defence of the Maccabees holy history, against the heretics of our time. CAP. III 1 But amongst so many means of help, these have been ever counted most sovereign: Gregori. in epist. ad Bonifac. Sacrifice, prayers, alms, and by example of scripture most commended. Though fasting added unto any of them, hath singular strength in this case, and ever was joined in all earnest suit, made to God for ourselves or other. We can not better begin to show the practice hereof, then at that scripture, which sufficiently commendeth at once, all three: written in the second book of Maccabees in these words: judas hortabatur populum conseruare se sine peccato, Cap. 12. sub oculis videntes quae facta sunt pro peccatis eorum qui postrati sunt. Et facta collatione, duodecim millia drachmas argenti misit jerosolymam offerri pro peccatis mortuorum sacrificium, bene & religiose de resurrectione cogitans: (nisi enim eos qui ceciderant resurrecturos speraret, superfluum videretur & vanum orare pro mortuis) & quia considerabat quod hi qui cum pietate dormitionem acceperant, optimam haberent repositam gratiam. Sancta ergo & salubris est cogitatio, pro defunctis exorare, ut a peccatis soluantur. The valiant man judas, exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, having before their eyes, what was fallen for the offences of them that were slain. And a common gathering being made, he sent xij thousand pieces of silver to jerusalem, to offer for the sins of those that were departed, a Sacrifice: being well and religiously minded, concerning the resurrection: for except he had surely trusted, that such as were slain should arise again, it might have been counted vain and superfluous to pray for the dead. But because he did well consider, that such as in piety received their sleep, had grace and favour laid up for them, therefore it is a holy and profitable meaning to pray for the dead, that they may be assoiled of their sins. So far the Author of the history speaketh: setting forth most evidently, the notable piety of judas in exhorting them to relieve the departed, the like liberal alms of the people, the prayers there in the camp, and the sacrifice at jerusalem celebrated for the same purpose. In all which doing, the scripture much praiseth that worthy zeal of judas, as a thing both profitable to the departed towards the remission of their offences, and no less agreeing to that his especial hope of the resurrection to come: counting it a folly to pray for them, of whose resurrection we are not assured. Whereby, I can not tell whether a man may well gather, that such as deny the fellowship of the live with the dead, or condemn prayers made for them, steadfastly believe not the resurrection. Take heed And in deed if we note well, we shall find that the prayers for the dead have been ever taken both as an argument to prove, and as a protestation of the faithful, to show their mind and faith, concerning the resurrection. So did Epiphanius that holy father, make confession of the Church's faith for the resurrection, and immortality of the soul, by the praying for the departed, and joining them to the partaking of the works of the live. In heresi. Aerij. Hi qui decesserunt viwnt (saith he) & non sunt nulli, sed sunt, & viwnt apud Deum, & spes est orantibus pro fratribus, velut qui in peregrinatione sint. Those which be deceased do yet live, and are not by their departure hence fallen to be nothing, but they have their being, and yet do live before God: and there is great hope to their orators or beadsmen, praying for them: as for such that be in their pilgrimage. So saith Damascen, In oration pro de funct. that by supplication for the souls, resurrectionis spes solidatur, the hope of resurrection is established. And therefore Dionysius the ancient in his mystical prayer and sa●r●fice for the departed, declareth that there was a minister that did solemnly recite certain places out of scripture, for to confirm the hope of resurrection. Ecclesiast. Hierrarch. Cap. 7. So that this practice of the faithful hath not only been ever accounted a plain truth, but it hath been a ground and a principle to confirm the article of resurrection and immortality of the soul. And therefore the fact of judas, is with such commendation mentioned in the scripture. For in those days the heresy of the Saducees denying the resurrection and the life to come (as josephus writeth) began to take great hold amongst the jews, Antiq. li. 1●. Cap. 8. about bishop jonathas his time: in which tive of diversity, that true believer thought to make plain protestation of his faith, by his notable fact. And now I must needs be bold to tell these enemies of our communion, that in acknowledging themselves to have nothing to do with the souls departed, they are at the next door by, to deny the immortality, and to term them dead souls as Vigilantius did. Hiero con. vig. Whom God's Church very conformably to Christ's calling and fitly for the protesting the common faith, nameth, Dormientes in signo pacis, Prayers for the departed agreeth to our faith of the resurrection and immortality. Those that sleep in the sign of peace: and the named Scripture, for the same cause, calleth them men a sleep in piety. Well, if their denial of prayers for the deceased, grow so far as the utter impugning of Christian hope for the life everlasting, and so with purgatory, take away hell and heaven together, as the saducees did, (which God of his might turn from them) but if they do, because there is such affinity betwixt both their teachings: and this of theirs, may seem always to have been joined to that extreme falsehood of the others, then shall God's Church still protest the faith of her children, by prayers and practice for the dead, both by the example of the fathers in Christ's Church under the Gospel, and by the fact of worthy judas in the law before. CAP. III 1 WE have all this while called for authority of the scripture, now we shall have scripture I trow, or else M. Allen shall miss of his purpose Sacrifice, alms, prayers, commended by scripture, to be means to help the souls in purgatory. And the scripture is written. 2. Machab. 12. Prothesauro carbones: we have found coals in the steed of treasure. Is this all the scripture we are like to have? this hath been answered of old to be no holy nor canonical scripture, and that by many reasons. First because it containeth matter contrary to the undoubted word of God. I omit this matter in controversy in the 14. chap. the author of the book commendeth one Razis for kill himself, which is contrary to the word of God. Wherefore M. Allen by authority of this book, & the example of a good man Razis may as well conclude that it is lawful for men to kill themselves, as by the example of judas, that men may offer sacrifice for the dead. Secondly the author of this book declareth, that he abridgeth the five books of jason the Cyrenian, into this one, which is a manifest argument, that he was not the instrument of the holy Ghost. For the holy Ghost maketh no abridgements of other's men's writings. Again the purpose of the author proveth that he was not directed by God's spirit, for he confesseth that he took this matter in hand, that men might have pleasure in it, which could not away with the tedious long stories of jason. But the spirit of God serveth not such vain delight of men. Moreover, he showeth what labour and sweat it was to him, to make this abridgement, and to be short, he maketh a very profane preface, ambitiously commending his travel and showing the difference between a story at large, and an abridgement: all which things savour nothing of that spirit, by which the holy Scriptures of God were written, which as S. Peter showeth, came not by private men's will and ordinance, but the holy men of God spoke as they were inspired by the holy Ghost. 2. Pet. 1. where as all this preface showeth nothing, but a private motion & an human purpose. And yet the man is to be commended for this, that he doth not boast of any more revelation than he had, but in the end of this book confesseth his infirmity & desireth pardon, which is as far from the majesty of god's spirit, as it is agreeable to the weakness of our deceivable nature, which are apt to deceive and be deceived. If I have well done (saith he) and as the story required, it is the thing I desired: but if I have spoken slenderly and barely, it is that I could. For as it is hurtful to drink wine alone, and then again water, and as wine tempered with water is pleasant and delighteth the taste, so the setting out of the matter delighteth the ears of them that readeth the story, etc. Who is so void of the spirit of God, that can not see plainly that this man had neither the purpose to writ that which should instruct, much less that should bind the consciences of men, neither the gift so to writ as in writing he could not err? But now to come to the text itself, first the greek copy in this place is so mangled and corrupted that no good sense can be gathered of the words, by which it appeareth, that the devils limbs have been ●umbling with this book, as they have been with the old doctors in places where mention is of prayer for the dead. Secondly seeing this fact of judas, hath no commandment in the law, in which not so much as one pin of the tabernacle, was omitted, jest any thing might be left to the will of man, to devise in the worship of God, it is so far of, that it is to be drawn into example, that we may be bold to condemn it for sin, & disobedience, you shall not do (saith the Lord) what seemeth good in your own eyes, but that which I command you, that only shall you do, without adding any thing to it or taking away any thing from it. But M. Allen thinketh he hath a sure post to lean unto, because judas Machabaeus did by this fast testify, his hope of the resurrection, as jasons abridger saith, and also that prayers for the dead, may be an argument to prove the faith that men have of the resurrection. It is not unlike that this reason prevailed much with the ancient fathers, as appeareth by their writings, for commonly it hath the best colour of any reason that they bring to allow prayers for the dead. But if it be weighed with good judgement, it is of no force to prove, that prayers for the dead, are lawful. For as truth may be proved always with true principles, so often times it may be concluded out of false affirmations. As for example, Idolatry proveth that there is a God, but Idolatry is not therefore the true worship of God. Of the heresy of the pharisees that held Pythagoras' opinion, of the passing of one soul into divers bodies, may be concluded the immortality of the soul, but this doth not justify that error of the pharisees: by the heresy of Origines which taught that all men should be saved at length, not only the immortality of the soul and the resurrection, but also the infinite mercy of God may be concluded, which all are true articles, yet was not the heresy of Origine true for all this, unless M. Allen hath forgotten that old sophism which children can solute: who so ever saith you are an ass, saith you are a living creature: but he that saith you are a living creature saith true: therefore who so ever saith you are an ass saith true. And such for all the world is M. Allens reason: who so confesseth prayers for the dead confesseth that the dead do live and shall rise again: but he that confesseth that the dead do live and shall rise again doth not err: therefore he that confesseth prayers for the dead doth not err. 2 But now their answer must be here, that this book by which I have urged them so far, shall be no scripture. And this is the issue of heresy lo. Heretics deny scriptures. These men that lightly writhe & wrest God's word, from all true meaning to the maintenance of their matter, being further charged by evidence of the words, when other convenient shift can not be found, they are driven, to refuse utterly the sacred canonical scripture of God: for notwithstanding their perpetual brags of scripture, yet there can no scripture hold them, but they will either find a fond shift to lose it, or else a shameful stoutness utterly to braced and break it. They first seek by subtlety to unfasten the bond of God's truth, which is every way so enwrapped with the testimonies of holy Scripture, then as they can not work by wiles, they boldly braced the bands in sunder. Thus when for misconstruing of this plane assertion of the book of Maccabees, they can convey no fit meaning, they are driven to hard shifts and unseemly, to deny the whole book to be scripture, and therefore in matters of question, of no authority. In which point, the authority of the jews moveth them more, In prol. mach.. Though against a lewe or an heretic they could not prove any article of faith neither then nor now, by them. Cap. 48. Cap. 47. Lib. 2. Cap. Cap. 36. in denying the books to be in the canon of God's scripture, than the decree of the holy Church for the approving of the same to be scripture. But S. Hierome, though he confess the Jews not to allow them, yet is bold to reckon them amongst the books of the holy Histories: not measuring their authority by the canon of the hebrews, but by the rule of Christian councils. The Canons of the Apostles will challenge them from the jews and heretics, to be scripture still: Innocentius the first, in his rehearsal of divine books, numbereth these of the histories of the Maccabees also: the Council of Carthage the third, authorisheth them, S. Augustine in his books. De doctrina Christiana, numbering all canonical scriptures, with the rest reciteth these also. Of which books in the xviij, of the City of God, he thus further testifieth, Ab hoc tempore apud judaeos restituto templo, non reges sed principes fuerunt usque ad Aristobulum: quorum supputatio temporum, non in scriptures sanctis quae Canonicae appellantur, sed in alijs invenitur, in quibus sunt & Machabaeorun libri, quos non judaei, sed Ecclesia pro canonicis habet. From this time (he meaneth after the history of Esdras) there was no kings, but chief governors, after the restitution & repair of the temple, till Aristobulus time: of all which time there is no Chronikle nor count, in the scriptures which be Canonical, but in other that be extant, we find that supplied: as in the books of Maccabees: which books, although the jews do not, yet the Church of God counteth for canonical scripture. But what should we stand in this point: the whole Church of God and every part or province thereof, every learned doctor and virtuous Christian man, hath received and allowed them for scripture. the which constant and perpetual judgement of the Church of Christ, if any man refuse, let him be esteemed an Ethnic. Or because he defendeth the jews authority against the determination of Christ's Church, let him be at this time accounted for a Jew. And yet I think he over shooteth them herein: for they confess the history to be true, although not holy Scripture: neither have they found any such error of doctrine therein contained, as he doth. And as for the ancient Christian writers, and famous doctors, they allege even that place to prove the lawful prayer for Christian souls departed, whereby these fellows take occasion to say it is no scripture at all. As godly Damascenus, in these words. Scitis enim quid dicat scriptura, quomodo judas ille Machabaeus, in Zion, Civitate regis magni, ut cognovit populum sibi subiectum à Palestinis hostibus occisum, & scrutatione facta, inventa idola in sinibus corum, statim pro unoquoque eorum ad dominum qui ad misericordiam facilis & paratus est, In lib. pro defunct. munera propitiatoria obtulit, sane ob summam religionem fraternamque charitatem, in hoc facinore, ut in omnibus alijs, a divinissima scriptura & magnificus & admirabilis habebatur. You know (saith he) what the scripture reporteth, how that worthy judas Machabeus of Zion, the City of the great king, after he understood certain of his subjects to have been slain of the Palestines his enemies, and search being made, had found in their laps, idols, strait ways offered to God, who is much inclined to mercy, for every of his soldiers so slain, propitiatory oblations▪ who surely, for that act, as proceeding of wonderful religion and brotherly love, and in all other affairs, is of the holy writ esteemed mighty and marvelous. Long before this writer did S. Augustine use the same book and text of Maccabees, to prove the prayers & sacrifice, De cura pro mort. agenda. for the departed in peace. In the book of Maccabees (saith he) we read that sacrifice was offered for the dead. But if it were in none of the old scriptures read at all, yet the authority of the universal Church, which for this point is plain, were of no small force, whereby it is provided, that in the prayers, which be made at the altar by the priest, to our Lord God, the commemoration of the dead shall have their place. Thus by these ancient authors, both the books be approved, the text itself, for which our adversaries unworthily denied the book, alleged for the same purpose, and the doctrine so sure, that if no scripture could be found, it would bear out itself against all falsehood. But this doctor handleth Pelagius the heretic, denying the book of Wisdom to be scripture, because there was a sentence out of the fourth Chapter thereof, brought against his wicked doctrine, even as he should be: and as these wranglers in the like case must be. The place well marked, shall serve our turn when so ever we hear them so impudently reject scriptures, because they impugn their heresies, which else should be as good scriptures as any book of the Bible, if they either would make with them or by any crafty colouring not plainly make against them. Thus he saith. Nec ideo liber Sapientiae, qui tanta numerositate annorum legi meruit in ecclesia Christi, pati debet iniuriam, Augustine's answer to Pelagius, denying scripture for that it made against his heresy. quoniam resistit eyes qui pro meritis hominum falluntur: & rursus: omnibus hic liber tractatoribus anteponendus, quoniam sibi cum anteposuerunt etiam temporibus Apostolorum proximi, egregij tractatores: qui eum testem adhibentes, nihil se adhibere nisi divinum testimonium crediderunt: in English thus. It is no reason that the book of Wisdom, which so many worlds together hath been worthy the reading in the Church of Christ, should now receive such wrong at our hands, because it plainly resisteth these fellows, that exalt man's merits (above God's grace.) And again, this book is of more authority than all the expositors in the world: for the noble writers hard by the Apostles time, did much prefer this book before themselves, who alleging the testimony of that scripture, doubted not, but they used thereby, the witness of God's holy word. Even so must we tell our masters, that it were plain wrong, to discredit the history of the Maccabees, which hath been in our Bible ever sith Christ's time for holy Scripture, because it hath an evident testimony against their false belief, concerning the state of the souls departed: which book, is not only better to be believed then all Caluins false gloss, but of more authority than all holy expositors. Out of which book, both S. Augustine & others many, have used proof of their matters, as of the testimony of Sacred and holy scripture. 2 I will not gain say, but who so denieth the authority of the holy Scriptures, thereby bewrayeth himself to be an heretic as all Papists do, which I will prove afterward. But he that admitteth for scripture, that which is not proceeded from the spirit of God, and thereby will avouch for truth, that which is contrary to the undoubted word of God, is no less heretic than he, for it is all one sin, to add to the word of God and to take from it. But M. Allen pretending to prove the book of Maccabees canonical by authority of the Church, when he can not by consent that it hath with the scriptures of God, beginneth with the authority of Hieronym. in prol. Mach. But what he meaneth thereby or what place he noteth I know not. But this I know, that in his Preface upon the book of kings he doth not only omit it in rehearsal of the canonical books, but also accounteth it plainly among the Apocryphal. Next he allegeth the canons of the Apostles. Wise canons I promise' you: as truly made by the Apostles, as the double canons that lie on the tower hill of London. In which are rehearsed 3. books of Maccabees two Epistles of Clemens for canonical scripture, but the Apocalypse of S. john hath no place at all, by which it may appear, what Apostles they were, that made that cankered canon. Then followeth the provincial Council of Carthage the third, which nameth the 2. books of the Maccabees among the canonical scriptures even as it doth the 5. books of Solomon, whereas the Church alloweth but 3. namely the proverbs, the preacher, and the Canticles: and although you should numbered to these, the book of Wisdom, yet can you make but 4. in all that we know of. Again, in what sense they did call those books canonical, appeareth by Augustine, that was one of that Council, namely that they may be read, so it be with judgement. Contra 2. Gaudentij epistolam lib. 2. cap. 23. Et hanc quidem scripturam quae appellatur Machabaeorum non habent judaei sicut legem & Prophetas, & Psalmos, quibus dominus testimonium perhibet tanquam testibus suis dicens: oportet impleri omnia quae scripta sunt in lege, & prophetis, & in psalmis de me. Sed recepta est ab ecclesia non inutiliter, si sobriè legatur & audiatur. And this scripture of the Maccabees, the Jews count not as the law and the prophets and the Psalms, to whom our Lord giveth testimony as to his witnesses saying, it behoved that all things should be fulfilled, that were written of me, in the law, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms. But it is received of the Church not unprofitably, if it be soberly read and hard. Here you see that Augustine howsoever he alloweth those books, yet he alloweth them not in full authority, with the law, Prophets and Psalms, nor with out condition of sobriety in the reader or hearer. But Hieronym saith plainly the Church receiveth them not as canonical scriptures: in his preface upon the book of proverbs: Sicut ergo judith & Tobiae, & Machabaeorum libros, legit quidem ecclesia, sed eos inter canonicas scripturas non recipit: Sic & haec duo volumina legate ad aedificationem plaebis, non ad authoritatem ecclesiasticorum dogmatum confirmandam. Therefore even as the Church readeth in deed the books of judith, Tobias, and Maccabees, but yet receiveth them not among the canonical scriptures so may she read these 2. books (videlicet Ecclesiasticus and the book of Wisdom falsely entitled to Solomon) for the edification of the people, but not to confirm the authority of ecclesiastical opinions. Thus if Augustine do simply allow these books, you have Hieronym that doth simply refuse them. If Augustine say the Church receiveth them for canonical, Hieronym saith the Church receiveth them not for canonical. As for Damascene except you would strive with numbered of witnesses I know not why you allege him, being one to whose judgement as but a late writer in comparison, you know we ascribe small credit. I might produce against him Athanasius or at lest wise one of elder time than Damascene under the name of Athanasius, but that I have alleged already is sufficient to repress that vain and unskilful insultation, that you use in so many wasteful words against us, for refusing the authority of him, that abridged jason the Cyrenians books, for canonical scriptures. 3 But our adversary learned not this practice of Pelagius only, for it is an older sore, and a common sickness to all devisers of devilish doctrine: as the skilful in the churches affairs may acknowledge. For some there were, that otherwise could not uphold heresy, but by the utter denial of all the old Testament: as Carpocrates, Ceverus, Manicheus. But Martion and Cerdon reject all together: August. de haeresib. 24. haeres. T●rtul. de praescrip. Iren. cap. 26 libr. 1. Euseb. eccles. histor. lib. 4. De haeresi. ad quod vult deum 30. haeresi. saving Luke's Gospel. Now Cerinthus, and Ebion, make count of none of all the evangelical histories, but the Gospel of Matthew. Cerinthus again and Severus, would have rob the Church of the acts of the Apostles. A sect called Alogiani, do refuse the Gospel of S. john, with the Apocalypse Martin, illiricus, Caluine, and their companions, that no man, being but an heretic, should ever out prick them, will shoulder with the proudest, and lift out of our Bible's the books of Maccabees, with S. james Epistle, and more when more need requireth. The which Epistle, as also the Epistles of john and judas, were once doubted of, not as containing any matter, whereof, the truth was uncertain, but as books not known to be of like force as canonical scripture in the impugning of heresies, or confirming articles of belief: as all works be, till God's Church have published their authority, and declared all things in them contained to be of the same credit that the spirit of God is, and of Gospel like truth. The Churches use in confirmation or publishing of the canonical Scripture. And by that authority of the Church what book so ever be allowed, though it was not so taken before, yet now we must needs accept it, sicut vere est verbum Dei, as the very word of God. And so be these canonical Epistles, and books of Maccabees, as before is declared. Here now every man may learn, that it is a very dangerous matter to give less credit to any of these books, or waver in any point of faith written in them, for such fellows judgements, that now amongst them, have left us neither old nor new Testament. Such stubborn boldness, had these wilful men in maintenance of mischievous doctrine. Whose open impudency, was counted handsome conveyance of their scholars and adherents, which were very many, notwithstanding the Catholic Christian men in all ages both marveled, and lamented their blindness. And yet doubtless it is not much to be wondered at, to see that man flatly forsake the scripture of God, who is not abashed, to refuse and condemn that sense and understanding of the Scripture, which the whole Church with all her learned men have ever allowed, and counted most holy. Well by the strength of this pillar we have challenged and saved hitherto, for all the barking of bandogs, the Scripture of God, with the known meaning thereof. And so I trust we shall do still, from the new adversaries, by the assured promise of th'assistance of God's holy spirit, which shall lead us not only to the true canonical Scriptures, with the sense of the same: but also guide us in all truth, necessary for our salvation. Let every man therefore here take heed, how he doubteth of the known and certain sense, that the Church of Christ, by decree of council or consent of doctors, applieth to any Scripture: lest by mistrusting the said sense, he go forward unadvisedly from open denial of the common, to found a private meaning of his own: in the stubborn defence whereof, A necessary warning. when he shall against the truth malipertly stand, he goeth unluckily forward, & at the end blasphemously rejecteth the blessed word, & sacred Scripture of God: as we have proved the ancient enemies of truth, to have done: and as in these new sect masters we may to our great dolour, see. Yet lo, even these are they that in all ages, as Vincentius saith, fly in their talk and teaching, over the law, the prophets, the Psalms, the Gospel. That cry out of pots & pulpits, nothing but God's word, the book of the Lord, the testament of jesus, Christ, Paul, scripture, as it may be supposed, and as in th'end it is proved, to drive out of doors, Paul, Scripture, Testament, and Christ too: and not to bring into the people's heads or hearts, the fear and love of God, the wholesome precepts of Paul's heavenly preaching, nor the true meaning of any Scripture. Who being urged, will rather credit a minstrels ballad, than the Maccabees, or best book in the Bible. But now you may see, that whiles these men thought to save their credits, by miscrediting the Scripture, they have wrought so wisely, that they have lost their own credits, both in this point, and in all other for ever. And as they hoped by denial of Scripture, to cloak their error, they have won to themselves the property of an heretic, by open show of their own folly. 3 And even as vain & frivolous is this discourse that followeth to show what books of scripture were in old time refused, by what heretics. But you think to match us with them, for denying the Maccabees, where unto you add the Epistle of S. James. If Martin and Illyricus have some times doubted of that Epistle, they are not the first that doubted of it, Eusebius saith plainly it is a counterfeit Epistle. lib. 2. cap. 23. And yet he was not accounted an heretic, I say not this to excuse them that doubt of it, for I am persuaded they are more curious than wise in so doing, but whereas you join Caluine with them it is because you can not leave to lie with out shame, while you are an instrument to defend devilish errors with out show of truth. For Caluine receiveth it, defendeth it, expoundeth it, and in all his writings allegeth it as canonical! scripture. Therefore if he were as ill as you count him, yet it were shame to lie on the devil. But we shall not need to ●ake among the old heresies to find what books of holy Scripture you Papists refuse, when it is an easy matter to take your own confessions and bold assertions, by which it is manifest that you do not as those heretics which you name reject some one or two books but the whole authority of all the canonical scriptures. For when you affirm that no book of holy Scripture is canonical, but so far forth, as your Church will allow it, who seeth not that you do abrogate all majesty and authority from the word of God submitting it to the judgements of men? Moreover when you will not admit any sense of the scripture, but such as your Church will allow, although the same be contrary to the plain words thereof, what authority do you leave to the word of God: which you make to be but a dead letter until you give it such a sense as it pleaseth you. Finally where you make decrees of men either private or common, customs, traditions, unwritten verities, in which is no certainty at all, not only equivalent, but also oftentimes superior to the authority of holy scriptures, what certainty, credit or estimation do you leave to the scriptures of God above other writings? nay all other writings are in better case than the scriptures are with you. For other writings may be counted the works of their authors, with out your censure the holy Scripture may not be counted the word of God, except you list so to allow it: which may as well refuse that which is God's word in deed as you receive and obtrude, that which is not the word of God at all. Other writings have such sense, as the authors have expressed themselves in their works, and may be gathered by their words. The holy Scripture may not have any allowed sense, approved to be the meaning of God the author thereof, by consideration of the words, nor conference of one place with an other, but it must needs have such sense, as your Church will fayne unto it. Finally other writings are of credit according to the authority of the writers: The holy Scriptures with you, have not credit according to the authority of God the author of them, but according to your determination, that may confer or perferre unto them what you list, whereby it is manifest, that you Antichristian Papists receive only the names of the canonical scriptures, and the metaphysical words abstract from all sense, but the authority, meaning and credit, you utterly deny to be in them, submitting them altogether to your own selves and your most corrupt & perverse judgement. The rest of your tedious railing unto the end of the chapter, I know not why I should answer further, except it were to waste ink and paper. For the stock of your fructlesse tree being digged up by the roots, the proud tops and brave branches thereof must needs fall down and whither away with it. That the funerals of the patriarchs, both in the law of nature, and Moses, and Christ, had practise in them for the relief of the souls departed. CAP. four 1 NOw therefore, I have great hope to trust so much of all studious readers, for that love which they bear unto truth, that they will give credit to the manifest words of Scripture, which so plainly do set forth, not only the benefit that ariseth to the departed by prayers, but also witness, that there was practise at jerusalem by oblation and sacrifice for the same purpose, judas followed the order of the church, and not prescribed to the Church any new sacrifice or ceremony. by order of their law. For otherwise, would that good knight so highly commended, never have presumed to bring in, any superstitious new usage contrary to the rule of that Church, neither would the Priests at jerusalem have offered for the dead without contradiction, under the government of so good a bishop: neither would the Author of she book, upon so light a beginning have praised the fact: or otherwise made mention of it, then as of a new devise of the same man. Whom I doubt not therefore, rather to have followed the continual custom of the Church, then to have invented any new unknown order of his own. Which may well appear at this day, by the ceremonies and sacrifices of the old law, yet superstitiously observed amongst the dispersed jews: where, amongst other rites of their law, De universa judeorum fide. recitatur a Groppero in lib. de Eucharist. they offer and make solemn supplication for the souls departed: as Antonius Margarita, a jew that forsook his profession, and become Christian, witnesseth in a book that he made of the faith of the jews. Where he reporteth out of their sacrifice, this prayer. Deus animarum fidelium recordetur, & in paradisum cum Abraham, Isaac, & jacob, alijsque integerrimis sanctis collocet: that is: Lord remember the faithful souls, and place them in paradise with Abraham, Isaac, and jacob, and other thy perfect Saints and holy men. And for that purpose they have a memorial book, as he saith, out of which the names of the departed are yearly recited. But we much need not this report herein: for that may well appear to have been used long before judas Machabaeus his days. For what other thing doth that long mourning, fasting, charitable relieving of the poor, and other common afflictions which men took upon them, at the obites of their friends and fathers, as well in the law of nature, as afterward continually in Moses time, what else can they mean but perpetual practice for the rest of their souls? Genes. 23. Look how religiously Abraham celebrated the rites of his wives funeral, which the Scripture calleth Officium funeris, the office of the Burial, which he fulfilled by weeping and lamentation made over the corpse. Neither can I think, that the office and just funerals stood in mourning or sorrowing without praying, or other remedies of relief towards the departed, seeing especially that office of mourning, by solemn dirigies, as we now term them, had place, time, and order, by rule appointed to be executed: yea and were not ended by many days together, nor at one time nother. As it appeareth that joseph and his brethren, Genes. 50. executed their father's funerals, first forty days in Egypt, and then in their own country, celebrabant exequias saith the text, seven days together. So the children of Israel celebrated Moses' obsequies, Deut. 34. with thirty days solemn mourning, in the downs of Moab. Not by that weeping which proceedeth of private affection towards a man's friend, for that can not be limited, nor yet prescribed by rule, as all these solemn dirigies were. But questionless this office contained for the relief of the deceased, alms, prayer, fasts, and tears: all which may well be termed mourning songs or weeping over the dead, Eccles. 22. for that time most convenient. Of which the wise man giveth this precept, Super mortuum plora, Weep over the departed. And that thou mayest well perceive, these public rites of solemn dirigies, to pertain properly to the due help of those, for whom they be exercised, S. Ambrose doubteth not to affirm, that of those burials in the law of nature, Super obit Theod. the necessary observation of our Christian days, months, and years minds kept for the dead, had their beginning: saying thus in his funeral sermon, made the fourtith day solemnly kept, for the memory of the noble Emperor Theodosius, Eius Principis & proxime conclamavimus obitum, & nunc quadragesimum celebramus, assistente sacris altaribus Honorio principe, quia sicut sanctus joseph, patri suo jacob quadraginta diebus humationis officia detulit, ita & hic Theodosio patri justa persoluit: & quia alij tertium & trigesimum, alij septimum & quadragesimum observare consueverunt, quid doceat lectio consideremus: defuncto inquit jacob praecepit joseph pueris sepultoribus ut sepelirent eum, & repleti sunt ei quadraginta dies. Haec ergo sequenda solemnitas quam prescribit lectio. Bonus itaque joseph, qui formam pio muneri dedit, etc. We kept of late the day of this noble kings burial, And now again we celebrated his fourtith days mind, the prince Honorius his son assisting us before the holy altars: for as holy joseph bestowed upon his father's funeral forty days duty, even so doth this prince procure his father's obsequies. And because some observe the third day and the thirtieth, other keep customably the seven. and the fourtith, let us look upon the text: which readeth thus: jacob being departed, joseph commandeth the provisors of the sepulture, to bury him: and so they did, and made up full forty days in that obite, this solemnity than must we fellow, prescribed by the scripture. Good was this joseph, that first gave us the form and fashion of so holy a function. By these words we see the antiquity of our Christian dirigies, and diversity of days, as yet it is used in mounthes or twelve mounthes' minds, to have issued down from S. Ambrose time to ours, from the law of nature by the patriarchs prescription, to his days: Geneva book appointeth a still burial. not by mourning and mumchaunse as the burial of Genevas book appointeth, but at the holy altars these obites were kept, as with devout prayers, and sacrifice. Whereof in better place, I shall speak more anon. He alludeth there also, to our dilexi: and other Psalms which we yet sing in God's Church, over the departed. CAP. four 1 WHen you have perforce as you phantysie made a breach in that strong wall that environed the canonical scriptures, and made a great separation between them and all other writing, by thrusting in the abridgement of jasons story among them, now as though you had taken the city, you make spoil and havoc, with out all order or honesty of all that liketh you within the compass of holy writ and with out. Now burials, mournings, alms, fasting, feasting, building, times and seasons all are yours. But he that longeth to have his spleen or his gall moved, let him read these discourses following, if he list to laugh at foolish arguments let him come hither, if he willbe angry with froward applications of the scripture here can he not want occasion. And first he hopeth that all they that love the truth will favour his cause, when they hear out of the scriptures, that sacrifice for the dead, was offered at jerusalem by order of the law? By order of the law M. Allen? show me one jot or title of the law to approve sacrifice for the dead. Et eris mihi magnus Apollo, & Phyllida solus habebis, and I will worship your words as an oracle, and confess that you only have the truth. I know your answer: you have no writing, but you have good reasons, for so good a knight, so many priests, so good a bishop, such an author would never have allowed it, if it had not been according to the law of God. Touching your author we have said enough already, As for the good knight judas, was not so sure of falling, but David a better knight than he, transgressed the law of God, to carry the ark upon a new chariot, which should have been borne upon men's shoulders, 1. Chron. 13. wherein not only David, but so many Priests, and Levites, so good a bishop, and the whole general council of Israel did err. Here was neither Zadocke, nor Abiathar, nor Abinadab, nor Gad, nor Nathan or any other that made contradiction, until God himself showed his displeasure by kill of Vzza But because M. Allen thinketh the bishop being so good a man, would never have consented to it, if it had been evil. I would ask of him, who was bishop or high priest then, that he was so good a bishop, and so worthy of his commendation. surely if he were a good man, he was much to blame to suffer any such thing to be done, in the temple of God, which was not appointed by the law of God. But if he were a wicked and an ungodly man, by M. Allens own reason, it is not unlike, but that he would for the gain of 2000 drachmas of silver, suffer such a superstitious new usage contrary to the law. Now because M. Allen sayeth he was so good a bishop, let him choose which it was of these 3. that sat on the seat of the high priest all the time that judas had any dignity among the people, namely jason, Menclaus and Alcinus, let him take the best of them (although it appeareth by the story that Menaelaus the worst of them all three, was Bishop in that time) and he shall see, that no man ever (except he were wilfully disposed to lie) would bestow such commendation upon him as M. Allen doth, to call him so good a Bishop, and to defend the government of so good a Bishop from suffering any superstitious usage contrary to the law, when they were all three open transgressors forsakers of the law: And what the Priests of that time were, let his own author declare, 2. Mach. 4. The priests were now no more diligent about the service of the altar, but despised the temple, and regarded not the sacrifices, but made haste to be partakers of the wicked expenses at the play, after the casting of the stone. These were those reverend Priests of those days, not unlike your hedge Priests of popery. And although judas did afterward make a piece of reformation, after the horrible profaning of the temple, and the laws through cruel persecution, yet these Priests were not thereby suddenly changed into godly men careful for the sincerity of God's law: but were ready like the reformed popish Priests that we have seen in our time, to do what so ever the Prince hath commanded, & to be as ready again to do the contrary at an other Prince's commandment. In such a time, & under so wicked a Priest, no marvel, if such corruption did enter. Moreover, the fact of judas favoureth not the popish purgatory, where none but venial and light sins are expiable, but those that were slain, for whom the same offering was made, died in deadly sin as appeareth by the story, they had under their coats jewels, consecrated to Idols, which was so heinous an offence that judas feared that they should have been all utterly destroyed for their fault, and therefore it might seem, that he caused the sacrifice to be offered not so much to pacify God for them that were killed, as to purge themselves of that pollution and profanation, saving that the author of the book expoundeth that fact otherwise. And whereas M. Allen saith, that prayer for the dead is yet used of the jews. They that have as good cause to know their custom as he, affirmeth contrary. He citeth Antonius Margarita turned from a jew to a Papist which avoucheth the same. The rabbins in their writings, when they speak of any that is dead, they only bless his memory, and in the book of their common prayers, and ceremonies printed in the hebrew tongue there is no such form of prayer to be found for the dead. But if any of them (as they do in many ceremonies papizare) have learned the superstition of the Papists, it is not this alone that they have contrary to the word of God. But let us come to the matter of this chapter, M. Allen asketh what other thing doth all the mourning, fasting, and other ceremonies of burying mean, but a practice for the rest of their souls? I answer with distinction, because his question is with confusion: partly they mean, that those which did such things lamented for the departure of so excellent men, partly they meant to show their hope of their resurrection, mourning & fasting were to express their sorrow, the other ceremonies were to declare that men's bodies should rise again. As for alms I found not that it was used at burials. But what mean you M. Allen (if you be not out of your wits) to imagine prayer for the dead to be practised at those burials? when in so many burials as are rehearsed in the Scriptures, with all ceremonies used about them, never is there one word, nay not one syllable, to prove prayer for their souls. And yet as a man with a marble face, you are not ashamed to affirm, that rites, offices, diriges, obites, trentals, etc. were practised by them, for the relief of the souls in purgatory. It may be that much of your paltry, by fond imitation was taken of such doings to counterfeit the examples of the patriarchs: (but once again I say) there is no mention in all the Scripture of prayer for ●he dead at any burial. Wherefore the authority of Ambrose helpeth you little, who although he commendeth Honorius for solemnizing the funerals of Theodosius by the space of 40. days, after the example of joseph, yet he saith not, that prayer for the dead was taken by the example of joseph. But see M. Allen (if you can see any thing) whether blind affection carrieth you, that you can not understand the plain latin of Ambrose, or else will not translate it a right. Ambrose speaketh not of his fortieth days mind, but of the solemnity of his funeral kept 40. days together, as in the embalming of jacob's body was by joseph. But to say the truth, how simple a reason this was, to take example of, for the time of solemnity of funerals, it is plain by that place which Ambrose allegeth, where it is said that 40. days were bestowed, by the Physicians or Apothecaries in embalming the body of jacob, to keep it long from putrefaction. And how slenderly he reproveth them that kept 7. days funerals, where if his reason were good by example of joseph's Apothecaries to keep 40. days, theirs were better by example of joseph himself to keep 7. days. These be the grounds of such superstitions as crept into the Church, first by emulation of the Pagans, and after seeking for colourable confirmation in the examples of the patriarchs. For avoiding of all which inconveniences that have risen and may rise, by ceremonies practised at burials, the Church of Geneva very wisely & godly, useth no more ceremonies in burying their dead, then are convenient for the reverent laying up of the corpse which is ordained to rise again with glory. Whose still burial is better than your yelling and howling, and their mumming (if you will needs so term it) more commendable, than you masking. 2 But in the second book of the Kings▪ the example of the holy King David is a plain proof that they fasted also for the deceased. Apprehendens David vestimenta sua, scidit: Cap. 1. omnesque viri qui cum eo erant: & planxerunt, & ieiunaverunt usque ad vesperam super Saul & jonathan filium eius, Fasting for the departed. & super populum, & super domum Israel, eo quod corruissent gladio. And David taking hold of his garments tore them: and so did the men with him, and they howled, wept and fasted upon Saul and jonathas his son, with the residue of God's people, that there were slain. Now what other thing did David here and his people, but that which judas Machabeus did afterward, for the like death of his soldiers? I trow there was no fasting to be found over any manner a person, live or dead, for thy selue, or other, in the whole course of scripture, but it was to obtain mercy at God's hand, towards the party for whom thou diddest it. So did this same holy Prophet weep, fast, 2. Reg. 12. lie on the ground, and change apparel, for his child, which he begat of Urias' wife, when he lay at the point of death, stricken by God's hand for the punishment of his father's fault. The which he did, as he protesteth himself, to turn the angry sentence of God if it might be, and recover the child again. But as soon as the child was gone, he broke of his long fast, giving his friends to weet, that he tormented not himself so, of only natural compassion towards the child, or inordinate lous, as they thought, but to obtain his purpose by such bitter tears, and fasting, at God's hands, for the child's recovery. Fasting then over any man, and such solemn mourning, is nothing else, but an effectual ask of mercy, for whom so ever it be done. As more plainly it is yet declared, in the burial of Saul and jonathas before said, 1. Reg. 31. celebrated by the Galadites and Saules soldiers: Where, as the scripture saith, after they had buried their bodies and bones, they fasted seven. days. Et ieiunaverunt septem diebus. For no other cause, but thereby effectually to ask pardon of their offences. There can I am sure be no reasonable occasion of their fasting alleged of no man, but that which the honourable Bede testifieth for us in these words. Recte & ad literam pro mortuis ut ad requiem pervenire valeant septem diebus ieiunatur, quia post sex huius mundi aetates, in quibus in carne laboramus, septima est in illo saeculo aetas requictionis animarum carne exutarum, in qua beatae tempus illud glorificum, quando resurgere mereantur expectant. Duly and according to the letter, they fasted (saith he) for the departed, seven days together, to obtain rest for them: because after the six ages of the world, in which we travel in flesh, the seventh age is looked for in that world, when the souls be loosed from their bodies, when the blessed and happy sort, shall continually be in expectation of the glorious time, by receiving their bodies in the resurrection again. 2 As we have had prayer for the dead, so now we shall have fasting for the dead. In deed the words sound more like such a matter then any thing that can be said of prayer for the dead. But the sense is evident, they fasted not for them to redeem their souls, but they fasted, to declare their sorrow, because they were slain with the sword as it followeth in plain words. And yet to make the matter more plain, in the same Chapter followeth a large form of lamentation made by David for them, where if ever he had used prayer for the dead, he would have used it: if not for his father in law Saul, yet at lest for his dearly beloved and sworn brother jonathas. But no such thing came in his mind, as M. Allen foolishly fantysieth of him. But M. Allen saith this matter is more plainly proved, by the Galaadites, that fasted seven days after the burial of Saul and jonathas, and he is sure, there can no reasonable cause be alleged of their fasting, but only to ask pardon for their sins. I take this to be a more reasonable cause, that they fasted and humbled themselves before God, because they did see the wrath of God against the whole people in the calamity of the king & his son, whose contumelious handling by the uncircumcised, stretched to the dishonour of God. And this was common among the Israelites in any great calamity or danger, or to show their sorrow for profanation of God's glory. And any of these are more reasonable causes, than the superstitious surmise of Beda, with his curious conceit of the six ages of the world, where other make seven and eight ages. 3 And that charitable relief of the poor, by open alms and doles, was also practised for the wealth of the departed in the obits of old time, the scripture itself in the fourth chapter of Toby maketh mention, Tobiae. 4. by report of that godly commandment, that the good old father gave is son herein: Panem tuum cum esurientibus comede, & de vestimē●is tuis nudos tege. Panem tuum & vinum tuum super sepulturam justi constitue, & noli ex eo manducare & bibere cum peccatoribus. Eat thy bread with the hungry and needy, and cover with thy clotheses the naked. Set thy bread and wine upon the sepulture of the virtuous & make not the sinful partaker thereof, which words of exhortation can have no other sense, but that, as before in the same place, he gave his son in charge to bestow upon all men according to his ability, for that there was hope to all charitable alms givers of God's mercy, so now he warneth him to feed the poor, and break his bread to such especially, as should come to the jousts and funerals of the departed. He would never have put him in mind to have relieved the poor at burials, but for some commodity that might arise to the party deceased. for otherwise his charity might have proffeted the needy at other times as well as upon men's departure. Some took foolish occasion by this place, to set store of meat upon the grave itself, where their father or friend was buried, as though the dead had been desirous of corporal food. Ser. de cath. sancti Pet. Lir. super hunc locum. The which superstitious error S. Augustine earnestly improveth. Other some, made great feasts at the day of their friends death. But the text is plain, it was the needy and good people that were at those solemn exequys, or other wise by their prayers might be profitably present in the days of memories holden for them: which practice was not prescribed as a new thing to the young Toby, Tob. 12. but it was moved and praised unto him, as a holy usage of other burials in those days, and always before. Bona est oratio cum jeiunio & elecmosina: Prayer is profitable, saith the holy Raphel, when it is joined with fasting and alms: and therefore as the fathers in their prayers for the dead, fasted, as we have proved, so now I doubt not but alms shall cry for mercy at God's hand for the soul departed, upon whose sepulture these things be charitably wrought. 3 What else? if we had not doles at burials, proved by the example of the patriarchs, all were marred. Therefore Tobias must say for doles. But first we have showed already, by authority of Hieronym, which is proof sufficient against the Papist, that the Church receiveth not this book of Tobias for canonical scripture. And secondly if we should receive it, yet here is nothing that helpeth M. Allens cause but his own simple surmise. He saith in deed the words can have no other sense, yet all that he sayeth is not gospel, but what if the truer text of Tobias hath other words? First in the Greek there is no mention at all of wine, as is in the Latin nor of setting bread and wine upon the grave of the virtuous, but the sense is this: As before he exhorted his son to feed the hungry with his own bread, and to clothe the naked with his own garments: so now he willeth him to spare the bread out of his own mouth, to bury the righteous, as he himself had done chap. 1. (which is a clear interpretation of this:) but to give nothing at all to the ungodly, or to be liberal to the righteous even to their death and to see them buried honestly. As for the jousts and funerals M. Allen dreameth that the poor came unto, to receive penny dole or soul bread, appeareth in the first and second Chapters how solemn they were, when poor Toby was fain to steal the bodies and bury them privily by night, yet upon that corrupt Latin text (as it should seem) whereupon M. Allen buildeth, they used in Africa to make sumptuous and drunken feasts, upon the graves of men in the places of burial, which they thought not only to pertain to the honour of the martyrs, but also to be some comfort to the souls of the dead. This old superstition Augustine reproveth epist. 64. Aurelio. But it is prettily renewed in the funeral feasts of the Papists, as also the selling of oblations for the dead which he in the same place condemneth. 4 We have a notable example in the Acts of the Apostles, of the force of alms with prayers, which wrought life and procured mercy, even in the next world. For the benefit of faithful works and holy prayers, will not be limited by the terms of this world: it will have course down so far as the fellowship of this Christian society reacheth: the devil and all his abettors can not stop the race thereof. The only show of certain coats, with the request of the poor widows that wore them, made to Peter the Apostle, turned Tabytha to life again after her departure: Act. 9 those garments given by her when she was a lief, by the careful travel of her alms folks, procured relief in the world to come. They warmed the backs of widows in earth (saith Emissenus) and the giver had comforth of them being gone from the earth. It is good we should all learn here, Sermo. de initio quadrage. that have received benefit of any man in this lief, with love and carefulness, not only in this present world, but most of all when our friend is departed, to represent unto God before his altar and holy ministers, with sorrowful weeping & hearty prayer, the memory of such things as we have received by way of alms or love, at his hand: It shall be a sovereign remedy for his infirmities, and the approvedst way to procure God's mercy that can be. The elders of the jews, making earnest supplication to our Saviour, for the Centurion's servant lying in extremity, used the memory of that gentilmans charitable acts in their church, as the readiest way to obtain grace and favour at his hands. They cried out together: dignus est ut hoc illi praestes, Lucae. 7. diligit enim gentem nostram: & synagogam ipse aedificavit nobis. Lord be gracious unto him, he is worthy that benefit: for he loveth our nation, and hath himself founded a synagogue. And S Cyprian saith notably, that good works make a more effectual intercession then good words, he speaketh of the same Tabytha as followeth. Circumsteterunt Petrum viduae flentes & rogantes, Ser. de eleemos. pallia, & tunicas, & omnia illa quae prius sumpserant indumenta monstrantes: nec pro defuncta suis vocibus, sed ipsius operibus deprecantes: the widows compassed Peter round about, weeping and craving, holding forth the cloaks and coats, and all their wiedes which they had given them before: not requesting for the good woman deceased so much by their words, as by her own good works. I pray God we be not over careless in offering to almighty God in these our doleful days, the unestimable benefits which we have received of our forefathers, by the building of all our Colleges, our Oratories, churches, and chapels. They were founded first, to procure God's mercy, they were many years together in the minds and memories of their beadsmen, represented before the face of God at his holy altar: they are now forgotten with most men, and offered to God with tears almost of none. We should be much more diligent for our friends offences doubtless, than the poor women were, only for restore of there benefactors lief again. And the force of prayers and alms worketh rather mercy in remission of sin, than favour for calling to the life of this world any more. Therefore seeing we read expressly, that prayers and alms have been profitable to many, out of the state of our present life, we can not deny but the works of the virtuous pass by God's providence to the souls separated from their bodies, and work grace and favour as the case and condition of the party requireth. 4 But when shall we make an end if we answer such arguments as these? The widows entreated Peter to restore Tabytha, and showed such garments as she made whilst she lived, therefore prayer and alms helpeth the souls in purgatory. At a word I say, here is no necessary nor probable consequence. But this is notable, that he allegeth the sorrowing of the unbelieving jews. He is worthy of this benefit, because he loveth our nation and hath builded us a synagogue. Belike he would have men think this synagogue was some chantry, that he builded for the benefit of the souls in purgatory. 5 The soul of Lazarus whom our Saviour revived, was 4. days in the place and state of the next world when Martha and Mary his sister's prayers, procured his restore to the land of the living again. Which women I am sure, were as earnest suitors for the rest of his soul, as for recovery of his parsonage: joh. 11. they wished Christ had been present in his sickness, they were assured of his resurrection at the latter day, but being stinking ripe, they thought our master would not presently call him up at that turn: yet for his rest, we need not to doubt, but they made suit with sighs & sorrowful tears, every day. Who by custom of their country, as I take it, kept solemn prayers for divers days together, in certain seasons, at the sepulchre: as the conjecture of Mary's friends, which came to comfort her in heaviness, may well declare unto us. For as she s●denly at her sisters call brake from them, they, knowing the usage of that solemn weeping at the sepulchre of the departed, said one to an other, quia vadit ad monumentum ut ploret ibi. she is surely gone to his grave, there to weep. In which weeping, kept as it were by course, order, and time, if our adversaries yet deny to have been used any prayers or words of request, then let them make proof by God's word, that they used nothing but unprofitable lamentation: which if it be immoderate, hath especial mistrust of the resurrection, as S. Paul declareth, but joined with prayers or alms, as before is proved, 1. Thes. ca 4 it hath the lively hope, of the life of those that sleep in peace. And that to be the true mourning for the dead, S. Chrysostome witnesseth with me, both often else, and namely, upon the Epistle to the Philippians thus: Defleamus istos, iuuemus eos pro viribus, procuremus illis aliquid auxilij, Homil. 3 modici quidem, attamen iuuemus eos. quomodo quave ratione? precantes pro illis, adhortemur & alios ut orent pro eyes, pauperibusque indesinenter pro illis eleemosinas demus: habet res ista non nihil consolationis: 4. Reg. 19 Audi quip quid Deus dicat: protegam civitatem istam propter me, & propter David servum meum. si memoria duntaxat justi tantum valuit, quando & opera pro tali fiunt, quid non poterunt? Let us mourn and weep (saith he) over the dead, and help them according to our ability: somewhat let us secure them though it be never so small, yet let us put to our helping hands. But how and by what means? marry both ourselves praying for them, and moving others to do the like: yea and with out ceasing let us bestow alms for them, this is somewhat comfortable. For see I pray you what God saith: I will defend this city for mine own sake and for my servant David's sake. Truly if the only remembrance of a just man might make so much with God, what may not charitable works done for the same intent, obtain at his hand? This was the mourning meet for the Christian burials, as this noble father teacheth us, and this & no other, was practised in the father's funerals in Christ's time and before. As in an other place, this same doctor earnestly correcteth the use of vain mourning, or outrageous costly and curious covering of the body buried. Cessemus quaeso ab hac insana diligentia, sed eam morientium curam habeamus, Homil. 84. in Ca 20. jan. quae & nobis & illis conferat ad gloriam Dei. Largas pro his eleemosinas faciamus, mittamus eyes pulcherrima viatica. Eleemosina mortuos suscitavit, quando circumsteterunt viduae ostendentes quae fecerat ipsis Dorcas. Cum ergo moriendum sit, quisque funus sibi paret, persuadeatque ut indigentibus aliquid relinquat. Nam si reges haeredes scribentes, familiaribus partem relinquunt in puerorum cautionem, cum Christum cohaeredem filijs tuis dimittis, intellige, quantam tibi, & illis concilias benevolentiam. Haec sunt funera pulcherrima & remanentibus, & abeuntibus proficiunt: & caetera. For God's love, saith he, let us leave this undiscrete and mad curiosity: and let us so provide for the departed, that we may both help them and ourselves to the glory of God. Large alms must we give for them, in so doing we shall send unto them, as you would say, a kind of necessary food and sustenance for their souls. This hath raised up the dead, when the widows stood round about, making show of the garnements that Dorcas made for them. Therefore, seeing die we must, it were not amiss, that every man procured his own funeral before hand, that is to say, by determination to leave somewhat to the poor & needy. For if mighty kings making their heirs, do bequeath somewhat to their familiars, for the self proviso of their successors, As prayers do protest the resurrection, so unordinate mourning showeth the lack of belief therein. thou may well understand, when thou makest Christ the copartner with thy children, thou procurest thereby his mercy, both to them, and thyself. And these be the right obits, these shall be commodious to the living, and profitable to the deceased. Again in an other place, he argueth that this unordinate mourning can not stand with the steadfast belief of resurrection of the departed, which the prayers of God's Church, and the rites of Christian dirigies do plainly protest, and prove: these be his words. Cur post mortem tuorum pauperes convocas? cur presbyteros, ut pro eyes velint orare obsecras? Homil. 32. in Cap. 9 Matth. non ignoro te responsurum, ut defunctus requiem adipiscatur, & ut propitium judicem inveniat: his ergo de rebus flendum atque ululandum arbitraris? Non vides quàm maximè ipsi repugnas? Why dost thou gather the poor people, to come to thy friends burial? In his time the priests were desired to pray for men's souls. Why desirest thou the priests to pray for their souls? Thy answer I am sure will be, that thou dost these things to provide for his rest, and to obtain mercy and favour at his iudgies hands. Well then go too, what cause hast thou to mourn or bewail his case? dost thou not perceive that thou art contrary to thyself, in thy own fact? now all studious men may see, what force the charity and alms of faithful people ever had, especially towards the dead: how little weeping auayle●h, how unlikely it is that the prescribed days of the old funerals in the law of nature or afterward, were spent in mourning, with out words or works for the departed: but namely how this holy father's sentence and mind fully setteth forth the meaning of Tobies' precept, for setting his bread and drink upon the sepulchres, to be nothing else but a calling together of the poor people, and feeding them for the benefit of the person departed: that not only they by earnest prayer, but he by charitable works, might together obtain rest and mercy for his soul. And here, the simple sort, and such as be ignorant of the force of alms, or our father's practice, for their years, A great decay of virtue in our time. being brought up in this sinful age when virtue is defaced, and the works of Christianity scarce to be seen in a whole country: and where they be much marveled at, as things rare, or contemned as unprofitable, or of the wicked condemned utterly, as superstitious & ungodly: such good young men must look back a great way with me, to learn their duties of the blessed times passed, that were wholly free from the contagion of this pestilent waste in religion: even to those days, that our adversaries confess, to have been holy and undefiled. 5 What a shameless man is this? to say the soul of Lazarus was restored to his body, at the prayers of Martha & Mary his sisters, who as the Scripture is manifest, did not hope for any restitution before the general resurrection. Yet we need not doubt (saith he) but they prayed daily for his rest. How proveth he that? Forsooth Sir, when Mary went out suddenly to meet Christ, the jews said, vadit ad monumentum ut ploret. Alack that M Allen could not put out that pl. and then it should be ut oret ibi. But in good sadness, if the jews had thought that Mary had gone to pray at her brother's grave, they would not have followed her to hinder her devotions, but she went to wail, and they followed to comfort her & to forbidden her M. Allen saith, that immoderate mourning hath a special mistrust of the resurrection, as S. Paul declareth. 1. The. 4. But joined with prayers and alms, it hath a lively hope of those that sleep in peace, if they sleep in peace what need have they of our prayers? but will you see the rat taken by his own rumbling? The place of S. Paul 1 Thes. 4. is directly to reprove immoderate mourning for the dead, which is not meet for them that have hope. But how happeneth it, that prayer, and alms be not there joined to moderate mourning? yea how happeneth it, that in so necessary a place S. Paul findeth no other comfort to moderate the mourning of the faithful, but only the quiet rest of them that are a sleep in the Lord, and the hope of their glorious resurrection? Surely if S. Paul had been of Chrysostom's mind he would have prescribed other manner of comforts as Chrysostome doth. But where learned Chrysostome that prayers and alms had any comfort in them for the dead? Surely he allegeth Scripture, but he applieth it madly, and yet he often applieth it to the same purpose, belike it was the best he had for that purpose. God saith unto Ezechias, I will defend this city for mine own cause, and for David my servants sake. Alas good man what manner of reason is this? be it as he saith, that the memory of David being a righteous man, and not rather the truth of God's promise, made to David, moved him to defend the city from the enemies: doth it therefore follow that prayers and alms are available for the dead for whom we have no scripture, no commandment, promise, nor example to pray? Who if they be of the number of Gods elect, be in so happy estate as they can not be better by our prayer, which supposeth them to be in misery. Hieronym upon the 37. of Esay where the same sentence is repeated, referreth these words Propter David etc. to the memory of David being a virtuous man, whereby the jews were admonished, that not for their merit, but for his mercy sake and for their ancestors sake, God would protect them, but prayer for the dead he findeth not available by these words. The other place of Chrysostome alloweth rather alms that men give before their death, or bequeath in their testament because it is a work of their own, than that alms which other men give for them. For if Dorcas was restored to life through her alms, it was through her own alms, that she did give when she was alive, not for any alms that other did bestow for her when she was dead. The third place of Chrysostome showeth, how hardly the people being once n●sl●d in superstition, could be kept in any moderation, not not in those times where there was great care, diligence and knowledge, in their pastors: but soon after as these things decayed in the teachers, so superstition daily increased: and where as you note in the margin, that priests in that time were desired to pray for men's souls, I will prove afterward in a more proper place, that in the older time they were called together at burials for an other purpose. But such is the nature of men's devices, that although at the first they seem not altogether evil, yet in process of time, they grow to more and more inconueniens, until at the last they come to be altogether abominable. And therefore your collection (M. Allen) being all upon false grounds is nothing to be regarded of old or young. But Satan your suttill master, hath taught your rather to appeal to the judgement of the younger sort, who have not known your horrible idolatry and mischievous merchandise of men's souls, then to men of any riper years, which remember your mysteries of iniquity, and are witnesses of your detestable doings. And yet you do claim of the decay of virtue in our days, which whether it have suffered a greater diminishing then in the time of your blind and blasphemous government, let them that have known both the times, consider diligently and judge indifferently. Finally where as you affirm, that your adversaries confess, that the days of Chrysostome were holy and undefiled, and would make young men & boys believe so, you must either bring forth your authors that so confess, or else all men both young and old must say you are a shameless liar: we confess that in those days, the only foundation jesus Christ was taught, and the article of justification by the only mercy of God was preached: but yet we affirm that much straw, wood, and other impure matter, was builded upon the foundation, which was a preparation to the kingdom of Antichrist, which was not long after to be revealed. It may be a shame for you Papists, to leave and condemn for heresy, all that is true in those men's writings, and agreeable to the scripture and to make such vaunt for a few superstitious ceremonies, and unsincere opinions, which yet if either young or old will indifferently compare with your abominations of desolation, they shall easily perceive that they differ as much from you, as we from them. Man may be relieved after his departure, either by the alms which he gave in his life time, or by that which is provided by his testament to be given after his death, or else by that alms, which other men do bestow for his soul's sake, of their own goods. CAP. V. 1 ANd we find, the works of mercy and charity, to help the soul of man in this life, towards remission of his sins, or else in the next world, for release of pain due unto the same sins. All which may be done two days▪ first, jucae 11. & 16. by thine own hands or appointment, living in this world, which is the best, perfectest, and surest means that may be: for that purgeth sins, Dan. 4. Ecc. 3. Tob. 12. procureth mercy, maketh friends in the day of dread, cleanseth beforehand, stayeth the soul from death, and lifteth it up also to life everlasting. Regard not here the janglers, that will cry out on thee, that man's works must not presume so far as to win heaven, or to purge sins, jest they intermeddle with Christ's work of redemption, and the office of only faith: make no account of such corrupters of Christian conditions, live well, and carefully follow these works of mercy so expressly commanded and commended in the scriptures, keep thee within the household of the faithful, and thy very good conversation in operibus bonis, jacob. 2. shall refute their vain blasts, and improve their idle faith. Say but then unto them by the words of S. James. Master protestant, let me have a sight of your only faith, with out good works: and here lo, behold mine and spare not, by my good works. What religion so ever you be of, I know not, but I would be of that religion, which the Apostle calleth, religionem mundam & immaculatam, The pure and unspotted religion: jacob 1 and that is (as he affirmeth) to viset the fatherless, and succour widows in their need. And then tell them boldly, that the Church of God hath instructed thee, that all works, whereby man may procure help to himself or other, be the works of the faithful, which have received that force by the grace and favour of God, and be through Christ's blood so wattered, tempered, and qualified, that they may deserve heaven and remission of sin. Doubt not to tell them, that they have no sight in this darkness of heresy, in the ways of God's wisdom: they have no feel nor taste of the force of his death: they see not how grace prepareth man's works: they can not reach in their infidelity, how wonderfully his death worketh in the Sacraments: they can not attain by any guess, how the deeds of a poor wretch, may be so framed in the children of God, that, whereas of their own nature they are not able to procure any mercy, yet they now shall be counted of Christ himself sitting in judgement, worthy of bless and life everlasting. Bid them come in, come in, & they shall feel with thee in simplicity & obedience, that, which they could not, out of this society in the pride of contention, ever perceive, And if they will not so do, let them perish alone. Turning then from them thither where we were, let us practise mercy (as I said) in our own time, in our health, when it shall be much meritorious, as proceeding not of necessity, but of freedom and good william. And then after our departure, the representation of our charitable deeds, by such as received benefit thereby, shall exceedingly move God to mercy: as we see it did stir up the compassion of his Apostle, in the fulfilling of so strange a request. Whereupon S. Cyprian saith, that alms delivereth often from both the second death, Serm. de Eleemos. which is damnation: and the first, which is of the body. CAP. V. 1 NOw we shall see how many ways alms profiteth men's souls. First alms given by a man's own hands, is allowed for the best, but that my thinks M. Allen should keep men out of your purgatory and not help them: when they be there. And here you will seem, to be zealous in exhorting men to alms, and charge us with jangling against it, because we affirm, that men's works must not presume to win heaven, nor to purge sins, nor to meddle with Christ's work of redemption, and the office of only faith, which assertions you call corruptions of Christian conditions. O blasphemous barking of an horrible hellhound. Doth the glory of God's mercy and grace, the work of Christ's redemption and the office of only faith hinder alms or corrupt good conditions, who seeth not although it be a foolish thing to boast of our works, but that we are compelled by this slanderous tongue of yours, who seeth not more true alms which is given for God's cause in one city where the Gospel is preached, then in a whole country where popery is received? Neither do we refuse the trial of S. james, with the proudest of the popish hypocrites that make most of their merits. And because you would be of that religion that S. james calleth holy and undefiled, which is to visit the fatherless children and widows in their affliction. If I should speak of singular persons, the trial were neither certain nor possible, let us therefore consider the whole states. Show me M. Allen if thou canst for thy guts, or name me any city in the world, where popery prevaileth, that hath made such provision for the fatherless children and widows and all other kind of poor, as is in the noble city of London and in divers other cities and towns of this land, and by public law appointed to be throughout all the realm of England. I knowledge and confess before the Lord, that it is nothing in comparison of his mercy towards us, nor our duty towards him. But yet blessed be his holy name, that it is sufficient to justify our profession against the Papists, & if not to stop their malicious mouths, yet to condemn their cankered conscience of obstinate lying against the manifest light of truth. And whereas M. Allen will have us told, that the blood of Christ maketh men's works meritorious, we will not let to tell him, that the church of Christ abhorreth that blasphemy, whereby Christ's blood is made not the only nor the principal, but an accessary and helping cause of remission of sins & eternal salvation, and will not doubt to tell him, & all such hypocrites as he is, that neither see, feel, taste, nor know the mystery of Christ's redemption, or any thing that ishueth unto us thereof, which mingle merits of men, by what colour or conveyance of words what so ever, with the infinite and only cause of our salvation the mere mercy of God. And whereas he biddeth us come into his Church, we say to all them that are curable among them, as the spirit of God hath taught us, come out of her my people, come out of her, jest ye be partakers of her plagues and torments. But now at the last, he returneth to his matter of mercy, affirming that after men's departure, the representation of alms by such as received it shall move God exceedingly to mercy. O vain imagination, for which he hath neither Scripture, nor doctor, for neither the example of Peter and the saying of Cyprian helpeth him one jot, because there is not the like comparison between man and God, nor between deliverance from hell which is certain, & purgatory which is the controversy. 2 If thou yet chance to be negligent in the working of thine own salvation when thou art in strength and health: when over much carefulness of worldly wealth hindereth the remembrance of thy duty towards God, for all that, help thyself at the lest in thy latter end: for though it had been much better before, yet it is not evil now. I speak not for priests advantage, (God is my judge) I am not of that room myself, and will not condemn my soul for other. But I speak for pity of the deceived people, for compassion of the souls that lack the relief of so sovereign a remedy, for mine own help, and those that I so dearly love, against the day of our account. I speak it, because I believe it, and I believe it, because I find it practised of those men, O that was a happy time. and in those days, when true christianity was yet fervent in Christ's blood, when the faith was undefiled, and when works and faith ran together, in the race of man's life, jointly without contention. Then flourished this doctrine: and thou shalt have further taste of their usage for mine own discharge: we can not occupy our pen better. S. Chrysostome thus instructed his flock in this case. Si adhuc in hac vita constitutus, Citatur à Dam. omnia quibus animae tuae prodesse poteras, bene dispensare neglexisti, & vel ad calcem vitae tuae tuis mandasti, ut tua tibi ipsi submittendo erogent, bonisque operibus te adiwent (eleemosinis dico & oblationibus) etiam hac ratione salvatorem conciliaveris: scribe in tabulis, & cum filijs cognatisque tuis haeredem nomina & dominum. Nulli autem viventium propterea occasionem damus ne faciat eleemosinas, differendo usque ad mortem. If thou in thine own time was over negligent in disposing thy goods for the profit of thy soul, and yet at the very end, dost at the last charge thy friends or executors, that they will employ thy proper goods for the relief of thyself: and so help thee with good works, that is to say with alms and oblation: even that way there is great hope thou mayest procure God's favour: writ in thy will, that our Lord may be named a fellow heir with thy children and kinnesfolkes. Nevertheless, let no man take occasion hereby, to be slack in his life time, or to differ his alms & charity till deaths approaching. This was the preaching of that doctors days, this proceeded out of his golden mouth, and this sounded out of every pulpit. And surely if you knew his life and qualities, you would not take him to be the priests proctor: of whose dignity as he wrote much, so where he found any vicious, he punished sore. But he was a true proctor of our souls. Chrysostome was no craver pardie, nor Christ neither, though they warn us to make fr●ndes by Mammon for our own salvation. They ask not much: they thrust out no inheretours: it was but a mite that wan the poor widow that praise, Marci. 12. a cup of cold water, where more ability wanteth, shall win heaven at th'end. Matt. 10. This then is the benefit of alms given in the time of man's life, or otherwise by his appointment, of his own goods, after his departure: both which, procure mercy as well by the deed itself, as by the prayers of those to whom that charity appertained. 2 This matter standeth upon chance medley, for if thou chance (saith he) to be negligent, etc. and more rightly than he termeth the burial of Geneva it may be called a matter of mumchaunce, for he beginneth with a chance, but he hath never a title of scripture, nor any sufficient authority of a doctor, to prove that alms bequeathed in a man's testament helpeth him out of purgatory. And yet as though he had some great speak to make, he protesteth that he speaketh not for priests advantage, because he is not of that room himself etc. but hereby you may see what he counteth alms, chiefly, that which is given unto priests, or else what needeth he to make any such protestation. But he speaketh it because he believeth it, he would fayne counterfeit his speech like the Apostle, but an ape will be an ape, although he be clothed in purple. For the ground of his belief is not as the Apostles was, the word of God Rom. 10. but the practice of men, which though they were never so good, yet they were such as might deceive and be deceived. But to the matter, the flourish of this doctrine was so great in those times which he commendeth to be so happy, that he can not find one man that speaketh of it: but he is fain to cite out of Damascene, that which Chrysostome should say. Which words prove no more, but that alms is better given at the last than not at all: of deliverance from purgatory never a word. There is one word oblationibus which perhaps M. Allen would draw to masses, for he translateth it oblation in the singular number, which in the Latin is the plural numbered. His fetch is easy to find, the Mass though it be said never so often, yet is it called of them but one oblation. But I infer upon his own conscience, Chrysostom's word is oblationibus oblations, therefore he meaneth not Masses, but only alms deeds which in scripture are called oblations or sacrifices where with God is pleased Heb. 13. But I will let this slight gear pass and go to the rest. 3 Now there is an other way of relief by alms of other men, which for love and pity they bestow upon the poor, that the soul hence departed, may through their charity receive comfort. And this containeth a double work of mercy, principally towards the deceased, for whom it was given: and then towards the needy that received present benefit thereby: and it singularly redoundeth to the spiritual gain both of the giver, and the person for whose sake it is given. And this kind of alms is it, which good Toby did commend unto his son, being so much more meritorious to the person that procureth it, than the other which we spoke of before, because it is grounded not only of love towards a man's own proper person, The perfectest kind of alms. but reacheth to the benefit of our neighbour, by the singular gift of compassion, and tender love that we bear even towards them which can neither help us, nor themselves. It is nothing else but a wing of prayer, and a token of earnest suit for the party on whom it is practised, which no man will use for his neighbours good, that list not do it before in his own behalf. This effectual supplication by words and works together, is as strange now a days in our country, either for the living or the departed, either in our own lacks, or in other men's necessities, as it was common in old time, and commended in the scripture. Bona est oratio cum jeiunio & eleemosina: Tob. 12. Prayer is sovereign, joined with alms and fasting: the which being done either for the live or dead, is with speed by Angel's ministry, carried into heaven. For I take it (and so the text exceedingly beareth) that the bitter prayers which the Angel so commended in that good father, and which had such good success, was made in the funerals of the faithful departed. Quando orabas cum lachrimis (saith Raphael) & sepeliebas mortuos▪ etc. Ego obtuli orationem tuam Domino. Toby: when thou with tears prayed and buried the dead, I offered up thy prayers to our Lord God. he seemeth to term that, prayers with weeping, which in other placies of scripture is called, mourning over the dead. And weighing the words with out affection, it must needs be granted that the just funerals had and required prayers with weeping, and that the Angels of God do speedily offer such effectual request up to the presence of the Majesty, as well to the relief of the dead, as to the comfort of the procurer. But I would be loath to descant upon God's word for the beating out of any new doctrine or devised meaning, or to avouch a sense not known to the time of perfect spring in religion. Therefore to go surely to work, I will look about me for example of this good Tobies alms, and prayers for the poor departed souls, that we may learn withal, not only to be beneficial to ourselves, but to our neighbours both a live and dead. All the antiquity here offer to take my part in so good and so known a quarrel. I may have as many as I will, and whom I will▪ such therefore I do search for, as be plainest for testimony of open doles, and relief of the poor in the burials of Christian people. That not only one man's assertion, but also the plain practice of the Church of God may bear downethe adversaries boldness: and the more ancient the better. Lib. 3. in job. Origene then shall help us to the usage of his time and Church. He writeth thus. Celebramus diem mortis, quia non moriuntur hi qui mori videntur. Celebramus nimirum, religiosos cum sacerdotibus convocantes, fideles unà cum clero, invitantes adhuc egenos & pauperes, pupillos, & viduas saturantes, ut fiat festivitas nostra in memoriam requiei defunctis animabus etc. We solemnly keep the day of our friends departure, because they be not dead which appear unto us to die. And this is our way of celebrating their funerals. We gather the religious men and priests, the faithful people with the clergy: we invite also the poor, the needy, and the fatherless with the widows: and we fill their bellies, that the memorial of their rest may be kept solemnly. But Tobies' scholar may learn his duty yet better, of the Apostles own scholar S. Clement: who once or twice hath these words in effect: In compend. & epistola ad jacob. fratrem domini. To viset the sick, to bury the dead, to keep their obits, to pray and give alms for them is commendable: upon whose words I will not now stand, because by and by, other occasion must drive me to repeat, for the worthiness of the man and the weight of his testimony, more plain evidence of his Church and time. If thou here yet doubt how the prayer, work, or sacrifice, of one man a live may help an other departed, remember always what I said in the beginning, for the knot of our brotherhood and society in one body and under one head: and thou shalt not wonder how one member by compassion may help & relieve an other. And there with, for example, consider how the sacrifice of job and daily alms were available for the misdeeds of his children, job. 1 & 2. and appeaced God's wrath towards his importunate friends. And though his benefit went only then amongst the living in this world, neither his children nor friends at that time departed, yet the case of the living amongst themselves differeth nothing herein, from the communion and fellowship which the departed in Christ hath with the living in earth. And therefore I bring the example of job amongst many like in scripture, for that S. Chrysostome fitly induceth the same, to prove the partaking of good works to be common as well betwixt the live and dead, as of the living among themselves. These be his words in English. Let us help our brethren departed, In 15. cap. 1. Cor. Homil. 14. keeping a memory of them: For if the oblation of job purged his children, why doubtest thou of the solace that may arise by our offerings unto such as be asleep in Christ? seeing God is pleased with some, for other men's sakes. It was so known a truth in that time, that they never put difference nor doubt, any more of the mutual help of the live towards the dead, than they did for that benefit which in Christ's Church one man may hold of an other. 3 Now cometh an other way of relief, by alms of other men, which being joined with prayers in our country, is as strange as sometime it was common. He would make fools believe, that prayers and alms as they are in deed not so common as they should be, yet among us are not at all. But omitting that slander with the rest, alms for souls departed is never mentioned in the scripture. And although Tobies' story be no canonical scripture, yet it is not once mentioned, nor by any reasonable or sober man can be imagined there. But who can let M. Allen to dream that Tobies' prayer and alms were for the dead whom he buried? yet who can bear him when he boasteth, that all antiquity doth offer to take his part, and he may have whom he will to testify the same. This is a strange matter (M. Allen) that you may have your choice of so many and will not vouchsafe to bring one that so doth writ of Tobies' prayer and alms. But you will say you mean generally of alms and prayers for the dead and thereof you have store of ancient testimonies, and the more ancient the better. I will not deny but you have much dross and drags of the latter sort of doctors, and the later the fuller of dross. But bring me any word out of justinus martyr, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, or any that did writ with in one 100 years after Christ, that alloweth prayer or alms for the dead, and I will say you are as good as your word. But if neither you nor any Papist for you, be able to do it out of these which I have named (which are the most ancient writers whose works are extant) nor out of an ancient or authentical writer with in the compass that I have named, I may justly say, that you will boast of more in a minute of an hour than you are able to perform all the days of your life. But you will come near the time if you can not come to it. And Origen shall speak for you all that he can, or at lest wise as much as you will give him leave to say. But if a man might be as bold to pose you (M. Allen) as you are to pose your betters: where had you this testimony of Origen, did you read it in his own works, or did you borrow it of some other man's collection? I know you will be ashamed to confess the latter, but you may be more ashamed to acknowledge the former. For who soever allegeth this place of Origen, to prove prayers and alms to profit the dead, is a foul falsery of origen's meaning, & a beastly gelder of ancient authority though it be M. Allen himself. For this place of Origen as it maketh nothing in the world to prove that prayer, and alms profit the dead, but the clean contrary, so doth it plainly declare to what end those prayers, alms, and oblations that were used in the primitive Church were referred and how in process of time, superstitious and erroneous opinions grew of them. Wherefore that this may be evident I will rehearse the whole testimony of Origen, which M. Allen hath so mischievously mangled. Nam priores diem nativitatis celebrabant unam vitam diligentes, & aliam post hanc non sperantes. Nunc verò nos non nativitatis diem celebramus, cum sit dolorum atque tentationum introitus, sed mortis diem celebramus, utpote omnium dolorum depositionem, atque omnium tentationum effugationem. Diem mortis celebramus quia non moriuntur hi qui mori videntur. Propterea & memorias sanctorum facimus, & parentum nostrorum vel amicorum in fide morientium devotè memorias agimus, tam illorum refrigerio gaudentes quam etiam nobis piam consummationem in fide postulantes. Sic itaque non diem nativitatis celebramus quia in perpetuo vivent ij qui moriuntur. Celebramus nimirum religiosos cum sacerdotibus convocantes, fideles unà cum clero invitantes, adhuc egenos & pauperes, pupillos & viduas saturantes, ut fiat festivitas nostra in memoriam requiei defunctis animabus quarum memoriam celebramus, nobis autem efficiatur in odorem suavitatis in conspectu aeterni Dei. The former men did celebrated the day of their nativity, loving but one life and not hoping for any other after this. But now we do not celebrated the day of nativity, seeing it is the entrance of sorrows and temptations, but we celebrated the day of death as that which is the putting away of all sorrows, and the escaping of all temptations. We celebrated the day of death, because they do not die that seem to die. Therefore also do we make memories of the Saints and devoutly keep the memories of our parents or friends dying in the faith, as much rejoicing in their rest, as desiring for ourselves also a godly finishing in faith. So therefore we do not celebrated the day of nativity, because they which die shall live perpetually. And thus we celebrated it, calling together the devout men with the Priests, the faithful with the clergy, inviting also the needy and poor, filling the fatherless and widows with food. that our festivity or joyfulness may be done in remembrance of the rest which is unto the souls departed, whose memory we celebrated, & may be made unto us a savour of sweetness in the sight of the eternal God. By this place it is manifest that Origen & the east Church in his time acknowledged no purgatory pains, because he confesseth death to be the end of all sorrows to the faithful. Secondly that they pray not for their friends souls, as being in torment, but that they rejoiced for them because they were in rest. Thirdly that the prayers which they used in the memories of the dead, were not for the dead, but for themselves which were alive, that they might likewise die in the faith as their friends had done before them. Fourthly, that the assembly of the clergy and people, with the feeding of the poor, was not to pray for the dead, nor to merit for their souls, but to rejoice for the rest of the dead, and to be a sacrifice of thanksgiving for them that were alive. This one testimony of Origen shall testify what the judgement of the greek Church was concerning purgatory & prayers for the dead from the Apostles time unto his days. I wot well superstition in the Latin Church was somewhat forwarder, in as much as there was the seat of Antichrist appointed to be set up according to the revelation of S. john and the exposition of Irenaeus who judged that Lateinos was the number of the beasts name spoken of Apoc. 13. By the way it may be noted, how M. Allen translateth religiosos the religious men, which word might well be used, but that he would have fools to think, that there were Monks, and friars in that time, which were used to be called to burials, but it is plain that Origen calleth them religious, whom by and by after he calleth faithful. Moreover, in the latter end where he libbeth of the conclusion of origen's words, he translateth: ut fiat festivitas nostra in memoriam, etc. That the memorial of their rest might be kept solemnly, yet when he hath clipped, shaven, pared, gelded, and falsified all that he can, the dead be in rest, and not in purgatory, for whose sake he imagineth in origen's time they gave alms. But next followeth a worthy authority of Clement the Apostles own scholar, and he forsooth in his Epistle to james the brother of our Lord, commendeth obites, prayer, and alms for the dead. But why do ye not M. Allen rehearse his own words as they are written in his Epistle? belike you are ashamed of his lousy latin, and think that all wise men would say you are mad, if you believe that Clemens which lived in the Apostles time could writ no better stile, than the cobbling counterfecter of those epistles. For shame away with such a dirty doctor, as writeth to S. james to see there be no mice tordes murium stercora among the fragments of the lords portion, etc. Epist. 2. He was a beastly ass that writ such nasty stuff, and thought to make the world believe, that such a godly and learned father as Clemens was, would writ so foolishly, so barbarously, so filthily, so malapertly, of such babbles as were not invented 600, years after, to so holy and excellent an Apostle as S. james was: but the old proverb must always be true: Draff is good enough for swine. But to put all out of doubt, the example of jobes' sacrifice and alms which were available for his children, and friends, showeth that the alms of men alive profit them that be dead, In deed I read in the book of jobes' sacrifice, and prayer, but I read not of alms given to merit for those that were living, much less for those that were dead. I doubt not but job gave alms liberally when time & occasion served. But I say those places are unfitly of M. Allen alleged to show the force of alms, where no word of alms is spoken. howbeit he showeth his reason afterward, why he allegeth this example of job, because Chrysostome applieth it to the same purpose. I deny not but that Chrysostome doth as substantially allege this example, for prayers to profit the dead, as he doth the saying of God, that he will protect the city for David his servants sake, what shall we say. Those good men in that declining state of the Church, to superstition, being destitute of the clear testimonies of scripture to maintain these plausible errors, are driven to such simple shifts to uphold them, as it is great pity to see. It seemed to Chrysostome the best way to stay the people from immoderate mourning, but he might have used a better way, if he had comforted them as the Apostle teacheth. 1. Thess. 4. 1. Cor. 5. Otherwise when he judged uprightly and according to the scripture his words sound clean contrary to the opinion of purgatory and works of other men to be meritorious for the dead, as in the very next Homily being the 42. 1. Cor. Quapropter oro & obsecro vos, adeoque ad genua supplex procumbo etc. The words are long therefore I will rehearse them in English, and let M. Allen find fault with my translation if he can: wherefore I pray and beseech you yea and I fall down as an humble suitor to your knees, while never so small a portion of your life remaineth be ruled by my sayings, be ye converted, be ye amended into better, jest like unto that richman when we are gone hence, we power forth tears which shall nothing profit there, and lament in vain: for whether thou hast a father, or a son, or a friend, or any other whom so ever that putteth his trust in the Lord, none of these shall deliver thee being accused of thine own works. For such judgement is exercised there, every man is judged of his own deeds, neither is any man otherwise saved there. And these things I warn you of, not as he that would make you sad, or bring you into desperation, but that being fed with vain and unprofitable hopes, trusting in this man or that man, we should not neglect our own virtue, for if we be slothful and do slack the matter neither any just man, nor Prophet, nor Apostle, shall help us: but if we be diligent having help enough of our own works, we shall depart hence with great confidence, and enjoy those good things that are laid up for them that love the Lord, which that we may all enjoy let it be so through the grace and mercy of our Lord jesus Christ. Compare these words with the former, and mark here not only the sound of his words, but the weight of his reasons, where as in all other places that he holdeth the contrary, the words only favoureth your cause, his reasons are either feeble or none at all. 4 But that I may serve not only the turn of truth, but with plainness also instruct the unlearned, and with store satisfy the godly greediness of some, that list see more for the comfort of their conscience, I will report one notable place for the declaration of charity's force even towards the deceased, Ex Damasceno pro defunctis. out of Gregory Nissen of the Greek church, and an other out of Athanasius the great: both directly touching the practice of good Toby in compassion of the dead. Thus saith Gregory. Dicitur bene, quòd si qui hinc non praemissis bonis migraverint, & postea à familiaribus neglecta oblatis reliquijs sarciantur, imputari opus perinde ac ab eyes factum fuerit, est enim & haec voluntas benignissimi Domini, ut creaturae quae ad salutem petuntur, sic petantur & distribuantur: & ut exoretur non solum quando quis pro salute propria est anxius, sed & quando pro proximo aliquid operatur: in English. It is very well said, that if any departed this life, his goods by alme● being not sent to God before him, and yet afterward the matter by his friends in the offering up the residue, be amended, that his friends fact shall stand and be reputed as his own work. For so hath God of his mercy ordained, that his creatures by use whereof life and salvation may be obtained, should so be procured, and in this ordre disposed, that man should not only obtain his request in the careful study of his own salvation, but also when he wellworketh for his friend or neighbour. Psal. 24. Here may we well perceive, that all the ways of our Lord be mercy and truth. And that he in a manner relieveth of his own accord our miseries, both here and in the next life, that there may be no damnation to such as be in Christ jesus: for whose sakes he turneth these base creatures of man's service in this life, to the use of his pardon and salvation in the life to come: he accepteth the good will and travel of other, for the help of them which can not relieve themselves: And, which is the property of a most merciful father, where he loveth he will raise the heart of some good intercessor, that by patronage and prayers of some lust job, his fury may cease by his own procurement. But how this mutual work of mercy is currant through the members of our common body and how being practised by one it serveth before God for an other, either in this life or the next, our holy father Athanasius by his authority might well be a proof sufficient: but he is content to declare it unto us by an example: and such an example, that beside the matter, may further put us in remembrance of the devotion of our elders in an other point, which the studious reader may mark by the way: thus than he saith. Quod in pauperes collocatur beneficium, omnis bonae retributionis est augmentum. Itaque pro defuncto oblaturus eundem serves scopum, quem qui pro paruulo filio adhuc imbecillo & infant, interim dum puer aegrotat, affert ceram, oleum, & thimiama, in templum Domini magna fide, & accendit pueri nomine, neque enim puer hoc faceret, cum ignoret divinae regenerationis constitutiones. Sic cogitet etiam eum, qui in domino mortem obijt, & posse & offer ceram, oleum, & caetera quae in redemptionem offerri solent. The benefit bestowed upon the poor is a sovereign ground of Gods rewarding. And in thy oblations for the departed, have always the same intent & scope that a father hath, practising for the recovery of his sick child, being young & tender: Who for his sick son bringeth into the Church of our Lord God, wax, oil, incense, and with devotion and faith lighteth them in the boy's behalf: for that the child himself, being wholly unskillful ●f the ordinauncies of our Christianity, would never go about any such thing: even so must a man think of the deceased persons case, that he may & doth offer, (as in an other man's person) wax, oil & such like, as commonly for redemption are offered. With proof of our matter in hand, here may be noted beside, the usual oblation of things appertaining to the maintenance of Church light, In Athanasius his time candles were light in churches, for their sakes that were dead, sick, or absent. and lamps: setting up of tapers of singular devotion for sick persons, representing of our goods, and Gods creatures, from profane use of daily occupation, to God's honour in the temple: the undoubted hope that all faithful people had, as well to procure favour to themselves thereby, as mercy to other, for whose sakes they did it: and especially that in this man's age, that was so ancient, these tokens of love and duty towards our Lord, and show of their homage by such external acts, were taken as peculiar ordinauncies, and solemn constitutions of our Christianity. These things (though the hedge of my cause forceth me to let them lightly pass) yet as I go by, I must needs behold, as steps of old manners: with some mourning to say the truth, and no little sorrow, in the contrary comparing of our corrupt conditions. The reader as he list, may perchance with more leisure, or at least with less injury to other, weigh the wonderful waste that sin and heresy hath wrought in our days of darkness. And when he considereth these things, that be now of most men counted mere madness, to have been liked, allowed, preached, avouched, sent out in solemn works and writings to the view of the world, and the sight of all posterity, from the very heart & spring of the Christian Church, by Athanasius the great, Athanas. authority only,. will bear down all heretics in the world. O Lord what a mighty man in word and work do I now name: him do I name, whose memory is blessed in God's Church, in whose lap our wearied mother once before, as she hath been often, in a manner learned to take her rest from the forsaken children: whose only word with out all proof (though he never speaketh but with weight of reason) would bear over all these petty Protestants put together: so said Tully comparing the Epicures with Plato and Aristotle: much more boldly may I poise all heretics in the world with this man's only word. Him therefore such a man, and so great a pillar of faith, when the Catholic shall see prove and allow, and practise those same things, The name only of Christianity left in many. which our masters of sects can not abide, but most abhor, and by him take a sure taste of his whole time, shall he not wonder with all wise men, at our downfall so deep? shall he not marvel under one name of Christianity, that goeth yet common to our days with those happy times passed, to be such diversity of case and conditions, that the one under so glorious a name must be nothing else but a cloaked paganism? but yet I would not he should occupy overmuch his mind in this consideration, till he see the whole rank of God's holy host, and all the blessed band of Martyrs and Saints stand with us for the full defence of truth, and the common Church their mother and ours. 4 The last part of this Chapter hath a boisterous brag of two great doctors authorities Gregory Nyssene, & Athanasius the great, but they stand both upon either the credit or judgement of Damascene, neither of which we esteem so much, that we need greatly regard them. Counterfecting was so common in those days and before them, to maintain such errors as could not be proved by scripture. For to pass over that which Tertullian writeth in his book de Baptismo, of the priest of Asia, which was convicted to have feigned certain writings of S. Paul to Tecta: was not the Nycene Council the first and the best, corrupted with counterfeit canons by the bishops of Rome to maintain their usurped authority, in the days of S. Augustine? which was plainly espied and confuted in the Council of Carthago. 6. cap. 4. & 7. And in the African Council, were there not three false quaternions found added to the 5. Council of Constantinople? which was espied in the 6. Council of Constantinople Act. 3. & 12. If men would be so bold with general councils, think you that they would be afraid of Gregorius or Athanasius writings? And what manner of a Sermon of Athanasius was that, which was read in the 4. action of the 2. Nicene Council? Of the image of Christ and the miracle done in Berytus, that when a jew struck the image, there issued out water and blood: what a shameless lie is that which Pope Adrian in his epistle writeth, that Constantine was cleansed of a leprosy and baptized of Sylvester at Rome, contrary to the History of Eusebius who lived in Constantine's time and knew him? what faulsyfying of authorities is there to prove the worshipping of images out of Gregory Nissene, Basilius Magnus, Athanasius and Ambrose, Chrysostome, Cyrill, and Hieronym, with diverse other in that lewd Council? wherefore except you could allege their sayings out of their own works, I will never trouble myself to answer them, although if they were there true authorities, there is no cause why we should believe either of them both, in an article of faith with out the authority of the word of God. Their time had diverse errors & superstitious ceremonies which they being occupied in fight against greater heresies that then sprang up, of the Arians, Macedonians, and such like, either had no leisure to espy, or else made less account to reform. Of certain offerings or public alms presented to God for the deceased, in the time of the holy sacrifice, at men's burials, and other customable days of their memories: and of the sundry minds kept in the primitive Church for the departed. CAP. VI 1 Keeping ourselves then from by matters, (if those be by, that are so near) of relieving the departed by the alms of the living there we left, and there must we borrow briefly a word or two more. Because I think it very necessary to be known, that besides the private procuring of the deceased souls wealth, and more than the common doles at the day of burial, there was also an other kind of alms not much differing in effect from the other, but in order and usage not all one. Which, because it was solemnly presented to God's minister before the holy altar, in the face of the whole faithful assembly, hard at then try unto the sovereign sacrifice, was highly always esteemed, and called an oblation for the departed, or an offering. And it was most practised at the minds of the departed, and memorial days, which were very many at the beginning of those happy times of our forefathers, the devotion of the good Christians then very fervent: and be not now a days, as they faulsely affirm, increased by superstition, but of late years, even before this pitiful overthrow of virtue, by our negligence and lack of devotion much decayed. Devotion much decayed somewhat before this heresy began. There is now used only, for the most part, but twelve months minds, or months for the most: and that commonly but for the first year of their rest: and then afterward either clean forgotten, or openly not often remembered, I speak of the late better times. For now there is no blessing of man's memory at all. These often oblations in the sacrifice time for both the live & dead, gave name to that part of the Mass which is yet called the offertory. whereof there was a sign of late, in the offering of some small piece of money in the common funerals, and at other times also of greater solemnity. But in the primitive Church it rose to such a sum, that both the Church was thereby maintained, and the poor singularly relieved. And the name of the people's oblation is often taken in this sense: although, because they join by these means and other with the holy minister in the great and dreadful oblation of Christ's own blessed person in the sacrifice, they be said sometimes, truly to offer: as it were by the priests ministry, whom with heart and affection they do assist, and with whom they truly communicate. they may offer I say, that sacrifice, in this sense for their friends departed. But else commonly besides the blessed Sacrifice of the new Testament, which was always the chief mean of God's mercy, to both quick and dead, and in every mind or memory for the souls principally procured, the offering of some part either of the deceaseds own goods, or his lovers, for the upholding the ministry, was also made. Of which kind of participating with the departed, we read in the ancient council named Bracharense thus: Can. 39 si quid ex collatione fidelium aut per festivitates martyrum aut per commemorationem defunctorum offertur, per aliquem clericorum fid●liter deponatur: & constituto tempore semel aut bis in anno, inter omnes clericos dividatur. If there be any offerings by the contribution of the faithful, made either in the festival days of martyrs, or minds and memorials of the dead, let them be laid up aside, in custody of one of the clergy, that once or twice in the year as time shall serve, they may be truly parted amongst the rest. And because all times have had certain draw backs in religion, and hinderers of devotion, the Council kept at Vase of great antiquity, excommunicateth all such as in any wise hinder the oblations for the departed. And in like case the fourth Council holden at Carthage. Cap. 2. Thus runneth the decree of them both. Cap. 95. We do curse and excommunicate all those, that by any means withdraw or else stay from the Churches the oblations of the departed, as murderers of the poor. The decrees of both these notable assemblies, were thought worthy to be confirmed by the vj. general Council holden at Constantinople: then are our ministers in the ruff of their new communion, thrust out of the old holy communion of saints, if either universal or provincial Synod can take hold of men so desperate, that neither care for man's curse, nor God's blessing. Well murderers and manquillers they must be counted, their predecessors not half so evil, deserved no better name. CAP. VI 1 IN the latter end of the fift Chapter was promised a whole rank of God's holy host, & all the blessed band of Martyrs and Saints to stand on their side. But this promise is no sooner made than it is forgotten. The title in deed talketh of alms presented for the deceased in time of the holy sacrifice, but the treatise hath never a one that speaketh for it. But M. Allen himself who first speaketh of the decay of popish devotion even in popish time, & then telleth us whence the offertory of the mass took the name, which he saith was of such oblations, as were offered for the dead. But except his word be good payment, he bringeth nothing else for proof. But if we shall rather believe justinus Martyr, one of the most ancient and authentical writers of the Church, whose works remain: the oblation that was made after the communion was of alms for the relief of the poor. As appeareth in his second apology unto the Emperor for the Christians, where he describeth the whole order of their meeting and what so ever was done, or said among them. As first the reading of the Scripture, the exhortation of the chief minister, the common prayer of the whole Church, the administration of the lords supper, and then saith he, 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 etc. They that are rich & such as will, according as every man shall think good give what they will etc. by which it is manifest that in those first and purer days there was no mention at all of sacrifice for the dead, but only oblation for the poor living. And as for the council Bracharense which was held 4. or 5. hundredth years after justinus time, yet proveth nothing but the commemoration of the dead, and a collation of the faithful but no oblation for the dead. Nevertheless to help the matter be added 2. other provincial councils, namely the council of Vase, and the 4 of Carthage, which excommunicate all such as hinder in any wise, the oblations for the departed, and these decrees also are confirmed by the 6. general council holden at Constantinople. Therefore these ministers that be in the ruff of their new communion, must be thrust out of the old communion with all a lie a. But whether is he worthy to be thrust, that regarding no communion either old or new of any truth, but his common union of lying and railing together, hath falsyfied both the decrees of Vase and Carthage, what M. Allen? two councils at one clap falsyfied? and that not ignorantly but wittingly, not negligently but wilfully? and yet must you wipe your lips as though it were not you, and rail like a ruffian upon our ministers in the ruff of their new communion, when you are not ashamed to faulsyfie the decrees of the old communion? Be not these the words of the Carthage Council Ca 95? Qui oblationes defunctorum aut negant ecclesiis aut cum difficultate reddunt tanquam egentium necatores excommunicentur. They which either deny to the Churches, or else pay with difficulty the oblations of the dead, let them be excommunicated as murderers of the poor. Likewise the Council of Vase. Ca 2. Qui oblationes defunctorum retinent, & ecclesijs tradere demorantur, ut infideles ab ecclesia sunt abijciendi, quia usque ad exinanitionem fidei pervenire certum est hanc pietatis divinae exacerbationem: quia & fideles de corpore recedentes, votorum plenitudine, pauperes consolatu alimoniae & necessaria sustentatione fraudantur, toti ergo tales quasi egentium necatores nec credentes iuditium dei habendi sunt, unde & quidam patrum hoc scriptis suis inseruit congruent sententia qua ait: Amico quicquam rapere furtum est, ecclesiam vero fraudare sacrilegium est. They which retain, the oblations of the dead and make delay to deliver them to the Churches, are to be cast out of the Church as infidels. For it is certain that this provoking to wrath of the mercy of God reacheth even to the uttermost denying of the faith. Because both the faithful departing from their body, are defrauded of the fullfilling of their desires, and the poor of the comfort of food and necessary sustentation. They therefore that are such, are to be counted as murderers of the poor and such as believe not the judgement of God, wherefore one of the fathers hath put this in his writings, with agreeable meaning whereby he saith. To take away any thing from a man's friend is theft, but to defraud the Church is sacrilege. What other thing can be gathered out of those decrees? but that those men are noted with censure, which keep back such things as men that are departed had bequeathed, to the Churches, for the relief of the poor, what is this to oblation or sacrifice for the dead: is it all one to speak of oblations of the dead and oblations for the dead? With M. Allen it is all one, for after he hath said, that the councils do excommunicate all them that hinder the oblations for the departed, he addeth that the canons of the councils run thus, that they which withdraw the oblations of the departed are excommunicated. But herein he declareth, that he is a manifest falsyfier, not of error but of purpose. 2 Damascene that blessed man, that suffered so much sorrow for truths defence, whose authority I must often use in this treatise because he purposely stood for this quarrel against certain heretics of his time. He therefore in the life of josaphat exceedingly praiseth his passing love towards his father departed. In vita josaphat. Who first with all godly devotion, procured his exequys and dirigies on the day of his burial, than commended his soul to God with seven days solemn prayer and supplication at his sepulchre: and with a wonderful liberal alms or oblation for the poor people, he finished up the matter the viij. day. But if you can find in you heart to credit this good man's report, he will assure you of the usage of his time. By which you shall perceive, that it is a horrible slander that the wicked have raised on God's Church and ministers, which be not ashamed, to say and avouch in their open sermons and vain libels, that these yearly, and so many months minds, have been newly practised and devised against God's word, and the usage of the primitive Church. Wherein they show themselves exceeding ignorant in the affairs of the Church, or else passing bold and malicious, in wilful deceiving the simple. For our only months and years oblations, in Damascens days, as he often affirmeth, there were customably kept tricesimales, quadragesimales, anniversariae memoriae: the thirtieth, the fourtith, the years minds: and portions appointed out, as he saith, in testaments for the maintenance thereof. And all this commonly, besides the peculiar devotion of some, towards their singularly beloved. If thou list go yet upward, thou shalt find no less care for the help of the souls deceased: for S. Ambrose reporteth of his time: that otherwhiles the third & the thirtieth, otherwhiles the seventh & the fourtith mind days were religiously observed: Super obit Theodos. yea and that (as he saith) by good authority, and ancient usage of the patriarchs both in the law of nature and Moses, Cum frequentibus oblationibus omnibus, with often and sundry oblations for the rest of the departed. This thirty. days memorial, old holy Ephreem in his testament and last will provideth for himself, julio interpr. after his departure. The seventh day was also ever in the primitive Church with great religion observed: because, as Beda saith, that hath the representation of the life to come. And S. Ambrose practised it for his brother, for the like protestation and sign of the resurrection and rest perpetual. Die septimo (saith he) ad sepulchrum redimus, De fide resur. qui dies symbolum est futurae quietis, the seventh day we come together again to my brother's sepulchre, because that day is a pledge of the rest to come. 2 That which can not be proved by the councils, shallbe made cock sure by the doctors, and Damascene that blessed man shall begin the dance: who as their fables writ of him, had his hand cut of for crafty conveyance, yet was it again restored by miracle by the blessed virgin, after it had been nailed to the Church doors of a long time. I have often said we defer nothing to his authority, who was both in a corrupt time, and he himself a corrupter of religion by building upon fables and authorities of men as may be manifest to any that shall read his writings, which of the Papists of mean judgement in these days is not ashamed of that fable which he rehearseth in Serm. de defunctis? how Gregory should pray and obtain pardon of God for the sins of Troianus an heathen Emperor that was in Hell 4. or 5. hundredth years before Gregory was bishop of Rome, so may they be of the tale of Falconilla and all other like fables avouched by him in the history of Barlaum and josaphat. But of memories of the dead and prayers for the dead also, we will not strive but that they were used before the times of Beda, Ephraim, and Ambrose, but with out warrant of God's word or authorities of scriptures, but such as is so pitifully wrested and drawn unto them, as every man may see, the holy Ghost never meant any such thing as they gather of them. 3 Hold on upward still, and Tertullian will witness with thee, that in that flower of Christ's Church, with in less than CC. years of our masters death, Oblationes fiebant annua die pro defunctis: De Cor. milit. That oblations and sacrifice were yearly made at the xij. months minds of most men: he meaneth both by the sacrifice of the Church, and offerings of the friends of the departed, In exhort. Castitat. as there also: repeat apud Deum pro cuius spiritu postules, pro qua oblationes annuas reddas: Call to thy remembrance, for whose soul thou prays, and in whose behalf thou makes yearly offerings: He speaketh of a friend of his, that practised thus for his wives departure. And in an other place he well declareth the duty of married persons one towards an other, if God by death separate them in sunder. Pro anima eius orat, De monogamia. & refrigerium interim postulat, & offered annuis diebus dormitionis eius, She prayeth for her husbands soul, and obtaineth in the mean space ease: and offereth every year, at the mind day of his passing hence. And he letteth not to affirm, that the married couple that practise not thus, do not believe the resurrection. Therefore he concludeth thus: Nunquid nihil erimus post mortem secundum aliquem Epicurum, & non secundum Christum? quòd si credimus mortuorum resurrectionem, utique tenebimur, cum quibus resurrecturi sumus, rationem de altetutro reddituri: What say you, shall we fall to nothing after our death, as the Epicure thinketh, and not rise again as Christ teacheth? And if we believe the resurrection of the dead, then doubtless we shall be bound to make account one of an other, as we shall together rise again. Beware here my masters, once again I must tell you, This heresy much joineth with the Saducees you are going towards the denial of the resurrection, so many as condemn the usage of the Church in praying or offering for the dead. Tertullian saith you be Epicures in this point, and so you be in all others. Psal. 13. I say you are passed privy muttering in your hearts that there is no God: for you are come to plain Manducemus & bibamus: cras enim moriemur, Let us eat and be merry, Cor. 1. ca 15 we can not tell how long we lief. I say you must answer for parting the affection of man and wife, and the one must be countable at the day of judgement to an other, that they procured not the duties of the dead by right of God's holy Church, for their souls departed. Take heed therefore, you are warned. 3 Nay ho there M. Allen, no higher than Tertullian. And when we have examined the testimonies of Tertullian in order as you have brought them, you shall have small advantage out of him, yea your friends shall think you had been better to have made no mention of him. For first I must tell you, that these three lines which are all that he hath written sounding that way, are found in three books which all were written by him, when he was an heretic, & separated from the catholic Church. And therefore it may well be, that all that he speaketh of prayers and oblations for the dead, was only in the conventicles of the montanists, of which sect he was an earnest defender, rather than in the catholic Church. And this conjecture seemeth the more probable, because Cyprian which was afterward a catholic Bishop in the same city, where Tertullian sometime had lived, maketh no mention of prayers for the dead, but only of sacrifice for the Martyrs which was none other but the sacrifice of thanksgiving. lib. 4. Ep. 5. But admit that the Church of God in that time, used these superstitious prayers and oblations for the dead, let us consider upon what ground they were used. The firs● place M. Allen allegeth in this form. Oblationes fiebant annua die pro defunctis. But tertullian's words in libro de corona militis be these. Oblationes pro defunctis, pro natalitijs annua die facimus. We make oblations for the dead, for our births on the yearly day. By which it is evident that M. Allen did not read these word●s himself, but received them of some other man's collection, or sound them in some book of common places. But to the matter: Tertullian himself shall say for me, that the same custom, with many other which he there rehearseth, hath no ground in the holy Scripture. Harum & aliarum eiusmodi disciplinarum, si leges expostules scripturarum, nullam invenies, traditio tibi praetendetur autrix, consuetudo confirmatrix & fides obseruatrix. Of those and such like disciplines, if you require the laws of the Scriptures, you shall find none, tradition shall be pretended to you to be the author, Custom the confirmer, and faith the observer. It is good to take that which is so frankly given: and more is Tertullian to be commended, that confesseth the ground of his error not to be taken out of the word of God, than they that labour to wre●t the Scriptures to found that which Tertullian confesseth is not to be found in them. I know the Papists will answer that tradition is of as good credit as the Scripture, & is the word of God unwritten, as well as the Scripture is the word of God written. But why then do they not observe all other things, that Tertullian in the same place affirmeth to be tradition, if tradition be the word of God, why do they not give to them that are newly baptized a temper of milk and honey, and from the day of their baptism forbidden daily washing all the week after? Why do they not count it a wicked thing to fast on the Sunday, or to pray and worship God on their knees? Why do they not count it a wicked thing to fast between Easter & Whitsuntide, or to pray on their knees all that time? Finally why do not they cross themselves in the forehead, at every step they set forth, at coming in, at going out, at putting on of garments, at putting on of shoes, at washing, at the tables, at lighting of candles, at beds, at stools, and at all things, what so ever they do? What answer can they here make, but that their Church may dispense as well with the word of God unwritten, which they call tradition, as she doth against the word of God contained in the holy Scriptures. So that always what so ever they prate of antiquity, customs, traditions, unwritten verities, or the word of God unwritten, the authority of their blasphemous church is above them all. Now to the second testimony alleged out of Tertullian. S. jeronym shall testify for us, that this book, as the other that followeth, was written against the Church, so was also his book de corona militis, when he was out of the Church, whereby it may appear, what good authorities they are, to prove the doctrine of the Church. This book de castitate, he wrote to dissuade a friend of his, whose wife was dead, that he should not marry again, condemning second marriage for adultery, as Montanus his master did, and laboureth to prove that he could not pray for his departed wives soul, nor offer the yearly oblation, if he married an other. To the same purpose he reasoneth in his book de Monogamia, where the words alleged by M Allen be so corrupted in all the copies, that Beatus Rhenamus confesseth that no sense could be made of them, and these words are the conjectural correction of Beatus Rhenamus. But let them be undoubtedly the words of Tertullian, as they seem to be. Here more manifestly then before he broacheth his heresy of condemning second marriages, for in that the wife prayeth for her husband's soul, and offereth, &c: he would prove that she is still married to him, and that she committeth adultery if she take an other, directly contrary to the word of God. Rom. 7. & 1 Cor. 7. yet see either the ignorance or the malice of this Allen, that allegeth those words of this writer, by which he condemneth them that allow second marriage, as deniers of the resurrection, against us that deny prayers for the dead to be lawful by the word of God. And useth the same reason and words to prove prayers for the dead to be allowable, that Tertullian useth to prove second marriages to be damnable. For that account which Tertullian saith men and women are bound unto, one to an other, he meaneth of the promise of marriage once made between them, which M. Allen, like a wise young man expoundeth prayers & oblations for their souls. The words of Tertullian following immediately where M. Allen leaveth them, are these. Si autem in illo aevo neque nubent neque nubentur, sed erunt aequales Angelis: non ideò, non tenebimur coniugibus defunctis, quia non erit restitutio coniugij. At quin eò magis tenebimur, quia in meliorem statum destinamur, resurrecturi in spirituale consortium, agnituri tam nosmet ipsos, quam nostros, etc. But if in that time, they shall neither marry, nor be married, but shall be equal to the Angels, we shall not therefore not be bound to our wives departed, because there shall not be a restitution of marriage, But so much the more we shall be bound, because we are appointed to a better state, as they that shall rise again into a spiritual fellowship, and shall know again as well ourselves, as those that pertain unto us. Wherefore M. Allen once again I must tell you, that we would be sorry to be so near the denial of the resurrection, by denying prayers for the dead, as you are toward the heresy of the montanists, in using such reasons to defend praying and offering for the dead, as Tertullian a Montaniste used to maintain his heresy, but I shall have further occasion to return to Tertullian, when I shall prove that the opinion of purgatory came first fr●● heretics. 4 But as near as we be Christ's time by tertullian's help, we will approach yet nearer, to the very Apostles age, and look out some record of that time for oblations and distributions, with memorials for the departed. And the further from you of the new sect we go, the more plain destruction of your doctrine, and more manifest proof of our old devotion shall we fiend, to your open shame and the comfort of Catholics. S. Clement therefore the Roman, one conversant with the Apostles, and instructed by them in his faith, a familiar of S. Paul, and promoted by S. Peter, a true pastor and a holy martyr, thus reporteth of the Apostles ordinance in our matter. Lib. 8. Const. Cap. 48. Peragatur dies mortuorum in Psalmis, in lectionibus, atque orationibus, propter eum qui tertia die resurrexit: Item nonus in commemorationem superstitum atque defunctorum. Etiam quadragesimus secundum veterem formam, Moysen enim hoc modo luxit populus: nec non anniversarium pro memoria ipsius, detúrque de illius facultatibus pauperibus, in commemorationem ipsius. Thus in English. We will that the third day be observed for the departed, in psalms, lessons, and prayers, for his sake that rose the third day. And so the ix. day, for the uniting together in one memory the departed with the living. In like manner the fourtith day must be kept according to the ordre used of old: for so did, the people observe the bewailing of Moses. And with all these, the xij. months mind beside. Where for the memory of his departure, l●t somewhat be distributed amongst the poor people. How say you now my masters, is this Popish or apostolic doctrine? was it invented for priests covetousness, or observed as Christ's ordinance? made we much of late of the little we found before, or of late lost for lack of devotion, that which we had so long before? Merciful God who would think this gear were so ancient, & so little set by. Who would think the adversaries. were so impudent and yet so much regarded. What heart think you they read the ancient writers with all? Or with what conscience can they pass by so plain practice of all the Christian world? Or with what face can they name either scripture or doctor? How dare they look back at any one step of antiquity, all which be nothing else but a testimony of their wickedness, and as you would say a pointing with finger at their horrible spoil of old doctrine and devotion? What if one of their own scholars seeing this light in our matter, should ask of his master: a lass sir, The master Protestant is posed, what if this be true that is proved so old, and you chance to lie that are so late, where are we your scholars then? It is not answered, if you comfort him with fair words, and tell him you follow the scripture. For he will charge you again strait, that these men had scripture, understood scripture, alleged scripture, both of the new Testament and the old, and referred their usage some to Moses & Aaron, other some to the fathers in the law of nature, and all to the Apostles of Christ. Where are you then? no more but this pardie, we understand scripture perchance better than they, we have the holy Ghost perchance and so had not the fathers: perchance that is no scripture, perchance this and this is not that doctor's work, because it makes against us. I think he that would believe your chancing, that may have such assurance of the truth on the other side, he is worthy to be deceived. 4 Not content with tertullian's testimony, you will climb higher, even to Clemens the Apostles own scholar, but you shallbe brought down with shame enough. I will not here repeat the mice dung, with the rotten bread in the box, and such baggage as I have discovered before, of this carterly Clement, but because you are so full of posing M. Protestant, as though you were johannes ad oppositum, I will pose you M. Allen an other while, or any M. Papist of you all, that hath a forehead to maintain this trumpery, for Clemen● the ancient bishops writing. Alas Sir, what if this be proved counterfeit that you say is so old? and you with out peradventure lie, that of late have found it so ancient, what ground have your scholars then? Tertullian hath discharged you of authority of the scripture already, how will you prove it then to be a tradition of the Apostles? your answer willbe still, Clenens saith it. But alack Sir, whether is it more lick, that Eusebius and Hieronym, that lived nearer to the time of S. Clement by twelve hundredth years, than you, should know or here tell of his epistles and other writings better than you? But Eusebius and Hieronym never heard of such writings as were never seen in the Church 13. or 14. hundredth years after Clemens his death. Where should you have them then but of some counterfecting gnaw, that could not otherwise maintain his heresy to be old, but by falsyfying and counterfecting a new, that which never was in the old writers heads. But to show that your shameless Clement, danceth bore and breechelesse, with out all honesty: I will yet pose you further, and bid you call your wits together to answer me. Whether had you rather grant that so holy a Pope as Clemens was, did err, or ●hat he was a false knaw that would father an error upon so holy a man's name and credit? your Sir Clemens decreeth that the fortyeth day must be observed for the departed, according to the old form because the people did so observe the bewailing of Moses. But if the scripture affirm that the people bewailed Moses but 30. days Deut. 34. Then is your Clement a falsyfier of God's word, and his foolish decree builded upon his false ground. How say you now M. Allen is this apostolic or apostotatical? is this plain dealing or Popish counterfecting? was Clemens in the Apostles age so ignorant of the scripture? or was he an ignorant hypocrite that feigned this under the name of Clemens? Truth seeketh not to be maintained which lies, faith looketh not to be defended by falsehood. The Church of Christ craveth no counterfected authority to establish her doctrine. Therefore it is neither truth, nor faith, nor the doctrine of the Church of Christ, that you maintain, defend, and establish by lying, falsyfying and counterfecting, but error, infidelity, and heresy, he therefore that will forsake the certainty of God's word to build upon the traditions of men, for leving the only path of truth, hath a just reward to fall into the pit of error. 5 Well, I will close up this part of our talk, for Tobies' alms board in the obits of Christian men, with S. Augustine's grave judgement: who, as he is plain for the benefit of oblations in the memorials of men's departures, in all placies, so here in a manner he ordereth the action thereof, for abusies that might thereon arise, in his epistle to Aurelius. The offerings (saith he) observed for the souls departed, whereof there is no question but profit ariseth to them, let them not be over sumptuous upon the minds of the deceased, nor sold away, but given with out grudge or disdain to such as be present, and would be partaker thereof: but if money be offered, it may be distributed out of hand to the poor, and then shall not those days of their friends memorials, be to their great grief forsaken or destitute of company. And the ordre with honest comeliness shall be kept continually in the Church. So S. Clement himself teacheth all them that be called to such days of prayers for the departed, and to be partakers of those oblations or charitable relieves, which were by some honest sober refreshing even in the Church in those days observed, whether they be of the laity or of the priests, he giveth them this lesson. Qui ad memorias eorum vocamini, cum modestia & cum dei timore comedite, veluti valentes legatione fungi pro mortuis: cum sitis presbyteri & diaconi Christi, sobrij esse debetis & privatim: & cum alijs, ut possitis intemperantes coercere: All you that are called to the funerals of the departed, refresh yourselves in measure and fear of God, that you may be worthy, to be as it were in commission of entreaty for the dead: and being priests or deacons of Christ, you are bound to be sober even at home: but abroad, for others example and discipline. 5 You had been as good to have left out the comparing of Augustine's oblations with Tobies' alms board, for that custom which most resembled your fantasy of Tobies' alms board Augustine condemneth where he alloweth oblations for them that sleep to profit some what. Sed quoniam istae in caemiterijs ebrietates & luxuriosa convivia, non solùm honores martyrum in carnali & imperita plebe credi solent, sed etiam solatia mortuorum, mihi videtur facilius illic dissuade●i posse istam foeditatem ac turpitudinem, si & de scriptures prohibeatur, & oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium quas verè aliquid adiuuare credendum est super ipsas memorias non sunt sumptuosae etc. But because this dronkennesses, and riotous festes used in the Church yards of the carnal and unskilful people are wont to be believed not only to be the honour of the martyrs, but also the comfort of the dead, my think it were more easy, that this filthiness and beastliness may be there dissuaded, if both it be forbidden out of the scriptures, and that the oblations for the spirits of the dead, which truly we must believe doth help somewhat, upon the memories themselves be not sumptuous etc. But if Augustine had known the horrible abuses which grew afterward, by permission of these oblations, he would as well have prohibited them out of the scripture as that heathenish banqueting in the Church yards in honour of the martyrs, as for comfort of dead men's souls. As for Clement that teacheth the priests and deacones to be sober and moderate in eating, where they were bidden to burial feasts, even here also he showeth himself in his own colours. As though in the days of Clemens, when the Church was in great persecution, they had nothing else to do, but to keep sumptuous feasts at their burials, where at the priests, and deacons, were in danger of glouttony & drunkenness, as they were in the Popish church when Popery was in the pride, seldom temperate or sober, and jest of all at burials, and months minds etc. That the benefit of prayer and alms appertaineth not to such as die in mortal sin, though in the doubtful case of man's being, the Church useth to pray for all departed in Christ's faith. CAP. VII. 1 THus far we now are brought, I trust with proof and evidence enough, with reasonable clear light for the good simple people's instruction, and with full safety, from all the force our adversaries can make against us. The patriarchs example, the words of scripture, the practice of the Church, the natural society betwixt the parts of Christ's mystical body in this world, and his members in the next, and all our father's faith have won so much, that alms and offerings in sundry memorials and divers observations of minds and obits, be singular and sovereign, to procure God's mercy for the pardon of the souls deceased. And now, jest any man take occasion of God's mercy, which he seeth to be so ready that it may be won by other men's works, to live in contempt of virtuous exercise, and to pass the time of his own life in careless negligence, presuming to purchase favour at God's hand so merciful, by other men's merits, with out his own deed or desert, let that man be advertised, quòd non habet partem in sermon isto, that he shall in that case have no benefit by our talk: the mercy which we speak of, pertaineth not unto him: such idle drone beyes can take no fruit of other men's labours, neither quick nor dead. For that member which in this body was so unprofitable to himself, it is no right nor reason he should have any gains by other men's travel. Therefore all these liberal promisies of favour and grace, to be procured by the works of the live towards the departed, reach neither to the unfaithful out of this house, nor to the impenitent who was but an unprofitable burden of the house. Lib. 8. constit. 49. These things saith Clement we mean of the godly, for if thou gave all the wealth of the world to the poor for the wicked sake, thou couldst not profit them a hear. For he that died in God's displeasure, can not look for more mercy than he deserved. Therefore S. john the Apostle seemeth to abridge our prayers, 1. Epist. ca 5 and the obtaining of our petitions, by bordering them as with in certaines bonds after this sort. We know that God doth here us what so ever we require, we be sure he will accomplish our requests which we make unto him. Therefore he that knoweth his brother to sin being not a sin to death, let him pray and life shall be given to him that sinneth not to death: there is a sin to death, for such I do not will any man to pray. This place of the Apostle, seemeth to declare the wonderful force that the prayers of the faithful have, in procuring grace and remission for others, so that they be ●rethern, and pass hence with out the bond of mortal sin. And the letter well weighed, shall make exceeding much to prove the prayers for departed in piety: as it in a manner forbiddeth all intercession for such, as be known to pass in continuance of mortal sin. There is no crime so grievous that man may commit in the course of this life, but the Church useth prayers customably therefore, and for her reverence is often heard. Therefore it may well be thought that the party must be deceased of whom such diversity of deserts doth arise: for all that be a live with out exception, if they be brethren of our family, must be prayed for. And so long as they be in this world, and may repent, The church may pray for any sinner in this life, with hope of mercy. their sin is not so unto death, but life by prayers may be, and is commonly at God's hand obtained. Then it may well be deduced, that the Apostle meaneth to encourage the faithful to pray for such their brethren departed, as died without bond of deadly sin to their sight, in a manner warning them that for such their prayers shall be acceptably heard. But for others continuing in sin to death, he willeth not them to pray, nor can assure them they shall be heard. So doth Dionysius, a man not very ancient, but of a full spirit and good grace, expound this text. Carth. Whether he meaneth (saith this father) by final impenitence, or by any mortal sin continued unto death, it is sure & plain a man must not pray for him that dieth in it. Then if we be admonished not to pray for one sort of departed, the case is clear that we may, and are bound, and shall be heard for the other sort that sinneth not unto death. CAP. VII. 1 HItherto, but that you love to tell your chickens before they be hatched, you need not greatly to boast of your winnings. But now you will show, that prayer and alms helpeth not them that die in mortal sin, and that beside your Clement, with whose clouts you cloy your book, you would fain prove out of the Epistle of S. john cap. 5. For that which S. john speaketh of the prayers that Christian men make for their brethren alive, whom they see to sin, but not unto death, you would take if you could, for prayers to be made for them that are dead, but passed not hence in deadly sin▪ & that which he saith of prayers not to be made for them that sin not unto death, you ween he meant of them that are known to pass hence in continuance of sin. But you that dare not presume to make any interpretation without authority of the old Martyrs, when all cometh to all, have none to father your new exposition upon, but Denys the charterhouse Monk, a yesterdays bird. But seeing you are not only void of all ancient authority, but also have all the old writers against you, that ever interpreted or alleged this place, let us see what is your reason. Forsooth the letter well weighed, maketh much for you, by the way it may be noted, that you call the word of God the letter, in that sense that S. Paul saith the letter killeth, but I omit that gross contumely against the holy Scriptures, where S. Paul saith the letter killeth, he meaneth not that the holy Scriptures killeth in which is contemned life, but that the law which only commandeth and giveth no power to fulfil it pronounceth sentence of death to them that break it. But to follow your reason. There is no crime so grievous, that man may commit in this life, but the Church prayeth for it & is often heard: therefore it may be thought that the party must be deceased of whom such diversity of deserts doth arise. I deny your antecedent: For the church of Christ, prayeth not for them that sin against the holy Ghost, & our Saviour Christ affirmeth that he which sinneth against the holy Ghost shall never be forgiven, who so ever pray for him, and of such saith S. john, that there is a sin unto death, for which we aught not to pray. Samuel was not heard when he prayed for Saul, 1. Sam. 16. jeremy is oftentimes forbidden to pray for the obstinate jews, jere. 7.11. & 14. And the Lord testifieth, that if Noach, Daniel and job prayed for the wicked, they should not be heard. Ezec. 14. Therefore there be sins for which the Church aught not to pray, and though she should pray, yet she should not be heard, even of men remaining in this life, your second reason (as I conceive it) is, that so long as men are in ●his world, they may repent, & then sin is not to death. Therefore S. john meaneth, that they that died without bond of deadly sin are to be prayed for: your antecedent as before is false, for the Apostle to the Hebrews the sixth chapter, showeth that there be some which sin so horribly in this life, that it is unpossible for them to be renewed by repentance. So that your exposition being both void of authority, and contrary to the manifest word of God, of none that is wise, or godly can be received. Beside this the whole context of S. john's words do plainly declare, that he speaketh of prayers for the brethren that are living, and not for them that are dead. But I am to blame to spend so many words in a matter so manifest. If the holy Ghost had ever allowed prayer for the dead, he would once at the jest have uttered the same plainly, in holy canonical Scriptures. But Tertullian, as wise a man as M. Allen, affirmeth (as we heard before) that prayer for the dead, hath no foundation in the Scriptures. 2 To this place also S. Augustine, disputing in his book de civitate dei that prayers profiteth not all men departed, alludeth, Lib. 21. Cap. 24. or rather leaneth unto it as a sure ground against the origenists, that would have God's mercy by man's prayers obtained for the wicked souls deceased, after this sort. Si qui autem usque ad mortem habebunt cor impoenitens, nec ex inimicis convertuntur in filios, numquid iam pro eyes, id est pro talium defunctorum spiritibus orat ecclesia? cur ita nisi quia iam in part diaboli computantur, qui dum essent in corpore, non sunt translati in Christum? If there be any that till death continued in stubborn impenitency of heart, and of enemies to God's Church will not be made children, doth the Church make intercession for such, that is to say for the souls of them being departed in that state? and why prayeth she not for them, but because they be now reckoned for the devils lot being dead, that would not move to Christ's part when they were in their bodies? And this is the cause, that for such as in desperation destroy themselves: by any kind of wilful or violent death, or in the stubborn maintenance of heresy, offer themselves to be extirpate: as well out of the society of man's life, as out of the communion of the Christian company, our holy mother the Church, who by her practice is the best construer of God's word, never useth any means for their quiet rest. Whereon there is a holy decree of Council in this sense, qui sibi ipsis quolibet modo culpabili inferunt mortem, nulla pro illis fiat commemoratio, Bracarens. Cap. 34. neque cum psalmis sepeliantur. All those that by any unlawful way procure their own death, let no commemoration be had of them, Vide Timo. Alexand. respons. 14. nor be brought home with psalms. The which hath been both diligently observed ever amongst Christians, and for terror of the wicked often by holy Canons renewed. Whereof there is no other cause but this: that such persons being at the end cut of the common body, can receive no utility of that, where unto they are not, nor now can not be joined. And as in that case where God's Church hath plain presumption of any persons everlasting perishing, either by continuance in infidelity out of her happy family, or by heresy, and separation of himself till the last end, leaping out of her holy lap where he once was before, or being and continuing, with some open evidence thereof, an unprofitable member, and a dead branch: as, I say, in any plain proof of these things, the Church never practiseth for his rest, because she neither hath hope of getting any grace, nor means to convey any benefit unto such as be not in the limbs of life, so if our said careful mother do bestow of her customable kindness, all her godly means upon those whom she knoweth not otherwise but in final piety and penitence to have passed this life, and yet in deed before God (to whom only all secrets of man's heart be perfectly open) died as abjects, and outcasts in sin and impenitency, she can not for all that, any whit help their estate so miserable, nor appease God's wrath toward, them being now out of the time of deserving. out of the churches lap, effectually and finally separated from the chosen people, and out of the compaesse of grace and mercy. Much less any private man's prayer can be any thing at all beneficial to his friend, or other that died not in God's favour: whose pain can neither be finished, nor by any of these ordinary means, one moment released or lessened. Yet every good faithful person must imitate the diligence of God's Church herein, that ceaseth not both to off●● and pray for all sorts with in her limits, that be hence in any likelihood of repentance departed: who had rather they should abound to the needless, then at any time lack for the relief of such, that might want them. 2 All this discourse is needless, to prove that prayers profit, not the infidels, or the impenitent, against them that believe that the souls of the faithful & the repentant are where Christ is, as he prayeth joan. 17. Father I will that those whom thou hast given me where I am they also may be with me, that they may see my glory. And even so he sayeth to the thief no perfect just man, but a sinner repentant: This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise Luke 23. And S. Paul desireth to be dissolved and to be with Christ Philip. 1. This is the faith of the Church, of Christ, and these be the grounds of our faith, void of all doubtfulness, obscurity, sophistry and variable sentence of deceivable men: builded upon the certain foundation of the eternal word of God: The authority of Augustine proveth that the Church prayed not in his time for the spirits of infidels. But the Council Bracharense (as afterward I shall more plainly show) doth insinuate that no prayers were made at all, for the souls of the departed in their Church at their burials, but only a remembrance of them in prayers with thanksgiving and singing of Psalms. For purgatory should seem had not yet traveled into spain. But touching this assertion of M. Allen, that those which die out of the favour of God, as infidels and such like, are not to be prayed for, whose pain can neither be finished, nor one moment released, or lessened by any of these means: what say you then to Gregory the first, bishop of Rome, which with his vehement prayer as your own Damascene and many others do witness, delivered the soul of Traianus the heathen Emperor from Hell: whereof there riseth a great controversy among your doltish divines, some affirming, that he was delivered out of Hell in deed, some that he remaineth still in Hell, but not in the torm●nts of Hell, in which opinion is Matthew monk of Westminster in his Flores historiarum Anno gratiae 605. How shall we believe the book of Conformities of S. Frances, who is there reported to have delivered not one but many souls out of Hell. If these be fables and lies M. Allen, they be forged in your own shop, whereas purgatory & all such other rotten posts and pillars of your Church were received. If these be true, that be set forth with so great authority, than were not you well advised to publish such principles as be proved false by your own patrons & proctor's. 3 Therefore let no man withdraw his alms, charity, or prayers, from any of the household of faith, upon any light presumption yea or strong conjecture of any man's final continuance in sin or wickedness: upon whom in the last spirit of breath, as God may have mercy, so man's prayers then shall be both needful, and exceeding beneficial unto him. Only with conscience thou may, and must cease with God's Church to practise the ways of mercy upon such as be not baptized, or otherwise after their baptism, have by leaving this holy communion of the faithful, Heretics not to be prayed for after their death. judged themselves unworthy, and made their case unapt by continuance therein, to receive any benefit either of the Church, which of their own accord they have forsaken, or of any member thereof, whereunto by faith and love they are not joined. And so all heretics shall be void of this mercy and grace after their death, which did in their life so earnestly abhor the same. Upon all other where any hope may be had, if thou pray or procure the means of mercy, it shall at lest be to thyself a singular help and gain, though the party for whom thou dost it, either need it not, being already received into bless, or else in perpetual damnation of Hell, be helpless for ever. Si preces pro mortuis facimus (saith S. Chrysostome) si elecmosinas damus, Homil 21. in Cap. 9 Actuum. etsi ille indignus sit, nobis Deus placatior erit: If we pray for the dead, and bestow alms for their sakes, if he be found unworthy, yet God will the rather be merciful to ourselves. And sure it is, that who so ever be found so gracious, as with much compassion of the deceaseds misery, to procure with study and care Gods merciful pardon towards them, that such a one especially shall find grace and favour at the time of need, and be marvelous apt to receive benefit by other's procurement again. Who be most apt to receive benefit by the prayers of the living. For as it is certain, that no man can receive benefit after his departure by any work or will of the living, saving such as in their life deserved the same, so must it needs be, that where these remedies be needful and profitable, that yet more or less they shall work upon the party for his relief, according to the more or less devotion and deserving in this life. Therefore this truth of mutual participation of the dead with the live, giveth no man occasion of idle rest or careless affection in his own time and cause, when he may be assured to lack the relief of others, to whom in his lief by well working he would not join before. But I had rather ye heard S. Augustine uttering expressly this meaning of mine, in his own words. Enchir. cap. 110. It can not be denied (saith he) but that the souls of the deceased be relieved, when the sacrifice of our redeemer is offered for them, or alms bestowed in their behalf in the Church. But in deed these are profitable to none, but to such as in their life deserved that those things after their departure might do them good. For there is a state of life that is neither so perfect but it may well have need of these helps after death, not yet so very evil, but such things may well secure them after their departure. Marry there is a kind of conversation so virtuous, that it requireth no such aid, and an other kind so wicked, that those which passed their former life therein, can have after their passage no relief by such means: for by our merits in this life we do obtain, that after our deaths we may either attain to remedy, or else be void of all helps. For it is a very vain hope, that any man should presume to win that at God's hand after he be passed out of this world which when he was in the world, he never sought nor deserved. And a little after thus he maketh all plain: When the sacrifice of the altar, or else any kind of alms be offered for all men departed being baptized, for the very good they are thanks giving, for the indifferent that be not very evil, they are a merciful deliverance. For the wicked and very evil, all though they be no succour for them which be departed and dead, yet they are comfortable for those that be alive, And to such as receive benefit thereby, either cometh full forgiveness, or else their judgement and damnation is made thereby somewhat more tolerable. The which sentence, almost in like words, for that it marvelously opened this matter, this author repeateth in the fourth question ad Dulcitium, and else very often. Whereby the faithful man may learn both how much, and whom these remedies do relieve. And then that the Church in his days offered sacrifice for all those that were baptized, and in the faith thereof departed: both for that it was uncertain who had need thereof, and also, because even then when the parties were not, nor could not be partakers thereof, that God's glory notwithstanding was exceedingly set forth, and man comforted thereby. Therefore God's Church in a true sense may be said to offer sacrifice even for the holy and blessed martyrs, who no doubt by shedding of their blood for Christ's name, and defence of unity, be fully purged in this their death, and so perfectly released of all sin & pain that might otherwise have deserved punishment, and some expectation of God's mercy in the life to come. Lib. 4. epist. 5. For so S. Cyprian and other of his Church offered sacrifice, for Celerne, Laurence and Ignatius as he testifieth himself: Sacrificia pro eyes semper ut meministis offerimus, quoties martyrum passiones & dies anniversaria commemoratione celebramus: For them we offer sacrifice, as often as we celebrated the yearly memories of martyrs. For which kind of perfect men, sacrifice is thanks giving unto God for their glory and gifts of grace, and a kind of intercession to them in our necessities. Tractat 84. in Joannem. For which cause S. Augustine affirmeth, Quòd pro martyribus non oramus fed ipsi oran● pro nobis: We pray not for martyrs, but they pray for us. Now the sacrifice often celebrated for the wicked also, that be not known to the Church so to be, is not beneficial to them neither, because their naughty life and death makes them unapt to receive comforth thereby: yet these holy appointed remedies are both comfortable and meritorious to the givers and procurers, as blessings which are not lost, How prayer which taketh no effect in the departed, is profitable to the procurer. but turn again to the bestowers. For the profit of other, or the only will to relicue other, is a singular desert and means of merit to a man's self. Full truly said Damascene, that this careful help & serving of other's men's lacks, is much like to the pain which one taketh in anointing with a precious balm an other man's body, which as he tempereth in his hand to bestow upon an other, it first redoundeth in verdure and virtue to himself, and then passeth by him, to the use of his neighbour, for whom principally it was prepared. 3 These matters stand all upon a false supposition, that any prayers are available for the dead, which when it can not be proved, it is in vain to show who taketh profit by them, who not, who more and who less, and what becometh of those prayers that be offered for either them that need no help, or that can not be helped. We learn out of God's word, that what so ever we do pray for according to Gods will we shall obtain. 1. john. 5. therefore this one hatchet shall cut asunder all these knots, prayers for the dead are not according to the will of God, and therefore they are not heard at all, for immediately after death, as M. Allen himself confesseth, followeth judgement, but prayers either need not or boot not, when the party is either acquitted or condemned by the sentence of the judge, which as Augustine saith can not be indifferent between reward, & punishment. De libero arbitrio. lib. 3. cap. 23. 4 But notwithstanding this free procurement and liberal grant of common helps in the departeds case, even there where it is uncertain whether they take effect or not, the Church yet doth not only abstain from sacrifice and request for such as do openly appear to sin unto death, as the Apostle saith, but some times for punishment of certain contempts and disobedience in some persons, she forbeareth these means, even there where she might profit the departed, & peradventure clean discharge him of sin and pain with all. Which she doth by marvelous grave authority, to the great terror of offenders. That by the grievous punishment of certain, many might learn to be careful and wise. Great is the authority of God's ministers surely, and heavy is their hand often upon sinners, always to edify and never to destroy. What a strange force had Peter's words, Act. 5. that drove ●owne to death for dissimulation man and wife, almost both at a lap? what a horrible & dreadful judgement practised Paul, 1. ad Tim. 1. 1. Cor. 5. ●n giving up some to Satan himself, for sin? how sharply ●id the primitive Church execute judgement upon grievous offender's, whom some times after many years separation from the comfortable receiving the sacraments, they would hardly admit at their last end to the fellowship thereof. But no where could the majesty of God's Church appear with more terror, then in this case: when she dischargeth certain for their punishment, of all common help by prayers, oblation, and sacrifice after their departure: though they otherwise died in the favour of God, as I take it, & might be of the chosen company that shall be saved. And that punishment was nothing else but a keeping of them in longer correction and pain for their sin, under God's scourge in the next world, for the admonishment of others in that case to beware, whiles she would not use her ordinary means for their release. A notable example we have thereof, out of a Council holden in Africa: Concilium Aphricanun. Epist. 9 the decree of which assembly, S. Cyprian himself with a practice in the execution thereof, reporteth in the first book of his epistles. Where he willeth that one Victor, who had made Geminus Faustinus being a priest against the ordre taken in the Council of afric, the executor of his testament, should therefore have no prayers of the clergy, nor sacrifice after his departure said or done for him. For in that time of great persecution, such instant prayers, so often sacrifice, the scarcity of ministers, the people's necessity required, that the priests should perpetually, with out all exception of worldly affairs, serve the altar. But you shall hear this blessed Martyrs, or rather his words together with the councils ordinance. Victor cum contra formam nuper in consilio a sacerdotibus da●ā, Geminum Faustinum presbyterum ausus sit actorem constituere, non est quò pro dormitione eius apud vos fiat oblatio, aut deprecatio nomine eius in ecclesia frequentetur, ut sacerdotum decretum, religiose & necessariò factum, servetur a nobis: simul & caeteris fratribus detur exemplum, ne quis sacerdotes & ministros dei altari eius & ecclesiae vacantes, ad seculares molestias devocet. In English thus: Seeing Victor against the ordre taken of late in a holy Synod of priests, hath made Geminus Faustinus the chief doe● in the execution of his will and testament, let it be provided that there be no oblation there with you for his rest, nor yet any prayers in his behalf in the Church: that the decree of the priests before said, may be religiousely observed and executed by us. That thereby all other our brethren may beware by his example, how they withdraw such as should serve the author, to entangle themselves with worldly affairs. 4 Now cometh a cumbersome case, that whereas he had affirmed before in the beginning of this chapter, that there is no crime so grievous that man may commit in the course of this life, but the Church useth prayers accustomably therefore, in which affirmation he includeth sin against the holy Ghost also, now he findeth in Cyprian, a place, where prayers and sacrifice as he thinketh, were denied to him, which had committed but a small fault in itself, and such as Priests do now adays commonly incur, namely to be an executer of men's testaments. But the matter seemeth to be far otherwise then M. Allen doth take it. Cyprian in the 6. Epistle of his first book, reporteth that there was a decree made in the assembly of the Church, before his time, that no brother departing out of this life, should name any of the clergy to be his executor, or overseer of his will. Ac si quis hoc fecisset non offerretur pro eo, nec sacrificium pro dormitione eius celebraretur. Neque enim ad altar Dei meretur nominari, in sacerdotum prece, qui ab altari sacerdotes & ministros suos Levitas avocare voluit, & ideò, etc. And if any had done so, there should be no offering for him nor sacrifice for his falling a sleep (so they called departing out of this life) should be celebrated. For he is not worthy to be named at the altar of God in the prayer of the Priests, which would call away his Priests & ministers the Levites from the altar. And therefore seeing Victor, contrary to the form given by the Priests in council was so bold to make Geminus Faustinus an elder his executor, there is no cause that oblation should be made among you for his falling a sleep, or that any prayer in his name should be frequented in the Church, etc. By these words it appeareth first that Cyprian in these terms, sacrifice, Priest, altar, alludeth to the sacrifices of thanksgiving in the law, because he useth also that name of Levites by which he calleth God's ministers. For as for the sacrifice propitiatory, was offered in the law, only by the high Priest once in the year. So that he meaneth no other oblation or sacrifice for the dead but the sacrifice of thanksgiving, which was for their godly departure. And therefore he calleth it not a sacrifice for their sins, but for their falling a sleep. And by prayer he meaneth nor prayer for delivery of the dead out of purgatory, but as Origen saith for the faithful living, to have the like godly departure as he had that was fallen a sleep. And therefore he saith not, that such a one is not worthy to be prayed for, but he is not worthy to be named in the prayer, which was made for them that remained to end their days happily, as such a one, or such a one whose names were recited in those memories, had already fulfilled their course. For otherwise, what so ever M. Allen jangleth of the severity of the church's discipline, if they had thought the souls of the departed to be in so great torments, and that prayer and sacrifices had been such a necessary help for them, it had been ●o much cruelty for one offence & that not so great, either to condemn a man to so horrible punishment, or to deny him utterly all manner of help and comfort. The discipline of the Church when it is most severe, is to bring to repentance them that are in life, not to rage's against them that are dead which can not repent. Nor to reject any man utterly, but him that is certainly known to be utterly forsaken of God. But this Geminius Victor of whom Cyprian thus writeth, was a good Christian, in somuch that Cyprian himself calleth him his brother. Geminius Victor frater noster de saeculo excedens. Our brother Geminius Victor departing out of this world, etc. Wherefore if the punishment had extended to the torment of his soul, or the hindrance of relief unto his soul being in torments, the Church would not have been so rigorous against a faithful brother, for maintenance of their own decree, which was not expressly forbidden by the word of God. Wherefore it may appear that this punishment, was only a note of ignominy to Victor himself for his transgression at his departure, & especially an example for the rest of the brethren (as Cyprian saith) that they call not away the ministers of God from his service, to worldly affairs, jest they be likewise noted of infamy when they are dead. 5 And here now our adversaries must be called upon, and asked how they can away with this gear, whether this light of truth be not over vehement for their bleared eyes? The heretics called upon to answer. owl light or moneshine I trow, or mirke midnight were more fit for their dark works and doctrine, our way is over much trodden for thieves. All this course of our cause, so agreeth with itself: so standeth with reason: so upholden by scripture, so ordered in all points, The whole matter ordered to our hands. that Momus himself could practise no art, nor pick no quarrels here. For such we must pray: for those we must not pray: in this case the sacrifice of God's Church relieveth the departed, in that case it is comfortable only to the living: some men need help after their death, others help we need, and not they ours: for open infidels and heretics prayers are not used, for all secret offendres, because their case is not known to the Church, of charity towards her children, she openly prayeth: some she punisheth, some she pardoneth, for all she marvelous tenderly careth. This doctrine of truth is purposely ordered by our elders, every point is touched and tried to our hands. What time of the day was it in God's Church, say truth, and shame the devil, when holy Cyprian wrote these things? when the Council of africa decreed these things? when Victor was punished by lack of sacrifice and prayers at his departure? doth your time of ignorance which you have limited for your walk, reach up so high in God's house? but I will spare you to anon, your answer is not ready. 5 And here now our adversary must occupy his goose quill, like the goose's trumpet to awake us to answer him, as though we were a sleep, or he so well appointed to fight against us, we must be asked how we can away with this gear. Surely as the sun is not obscured with the dust that a cock casteth up when he scrapeth on the dunghill, no more is the son of righteousness our only full redemption, or the light of his holy word darkened by all the mist of men's devices, which Allen or his complices can raise out of the whole heap of superstition and error, to deface the glory of his truth. The Lord is our light and salvation, therefore we will not be a feared of purgatory. The word of the Lord is a light unto our steps and a lantern unto our feet, therefore we will not walk in the darkness of men's traditions. Our works and doctrine shall one day be tried before God, and therefore we make no account how we be judged by man's day, and jest of all by such a man's doom, as hath his tongue more ready to rail and slander, than his heart instructed to discern and judge. your way is your own way, and not the way of the Lord, and because you take an other way unto salvation, than the only right way jesus Christ, therefore by his own sentence, you are all thieves and murderers. But because you gather your forces together to show the strength of your cause, I will also generally show your feebleness, to the overthrow of your purpose. The course of your cause you say so agreeth with itself. What else? To prove that there is purgatory, you urge the satisfying of God's justice so extremely, that beside the suffering of Christ and forgiveness of sins, yet there must needs be a suffering of the party that offended. But when you will show by what means this suffering may be either mitigated or clean taken away: you clean take away the extremity of God's justice which before you so earnestly maintained. O worthy agreement of your cause with itself. Beside the agreement with itself it so standeth with reason. surely how reasonable so ever it seemeth to you, that the merits of men should win, that which the merits of Christ could not win: that the suffering of men should satisfy, for that which the suffering of Christ could not satisfy with the justice of God, to them that have there reason rightly reformed it seemeth altogether unreasonable, (So upholden with scripture.) Never once mentioned in scripture, and so confessed by Tertullian, one that leaned to some part of your cause: (so he ordered in all points.) So patched together like a beggars cloak with so many peeses of so many colours, one patch out of Tertullian, an other out of Augustine, an other out of Gregory, an other out of Damascene, many stolen out of the monks cowl, and said to be given by Clemens, Athanasius, and such like, some rent away violently against the owner's wills, as from Origen, Cyprian, the councils of Vase, and Carthage, and no small peeses out of drowsy dreams, and mockadoe miracles, narrations, and relations etc. I promise' you a goodly ordered cause. But of Cyprians time we must say the truth and shame the devil, so we will and shame the Pope to, his eldest son. It was such time M. Allen, as Cyprian bishop of Carthage, thought himself equal with Cornelius and Stephanus bishops of Rome. 1. lib. epist. 1. cap. 4. de simplicitate praelatorum etc. It was such a time that Cyprian taught, that faith only doth profit to salvation, To. 2. ad Quirin. cap. 42. And that he believed not in God at all, which placeth not the trust of all his felicity in him only. De duplici martyrio. Yea it was such time, that Cyprian would have nothing done in the celebration of the Lords Supper, and namely in ministering of the cup, but that Christ himself did. lib. 2. epist. 3. And yet it was such a time also, as Cyprian and all the bishops of Africa decreed in Council, that those which were baptized by heretics, should be baptized again. And therefore it was no such time, but that he and all his fellows though they held the foundation of Christ, yet might and did err in some opinions, contrary to the truth of God's word. And where you ask whether the time of ignorance, that we limit for our walk, doth reach so high as Cyprian his time, I would you knew we walk not in ignorance of any time, but in the known path of God's word, which is higher than Cyprians or any mortal man's time. But the time of ignorance which is limited for your walk, that call ignorance the mother of devotion, first is all beside the path of God's word, and then even from the time that the mystery of iniquity began to work. 2. Thess. 2. Even until the time that Antichrist was openly showed in the full power of darkness, in all times when so ever, and where so ever was any piece of mist, or dark corner (though all the rest were light) there were the steps of your walk. As even in the Apostles time, when the superstition of Angels began to be received, there was one step of your way, which you hold even to this day Colos. 2. And from that time the devil never left to set in his foot, for his son Antichrist's dominion, until he had placed him in the temple of God, and prepared the wide world for his walk. What that holy sacrifice is, which was ever counted so beneficial to the live and dead. The punishment of our sins by the heavy loss thereof. The great hatred which the devil and all his side, hath ever borne towards Christ's eternal priesthood, and the sacrifice of the Church. And that by the said sacrifice of the Mass, the souls departed are especially relieved. CAP. VIII. 1 ANd now we must fall in hand with the good Christian Catholic, for the search of this so often named sacrifice, so comfortable to the live, so profitable to the dead: and what that oblation is, which the holy Catholic & apostolic Church hath ever used through out the world for the sins of the departed, in place of the offerings of the law, and that sacrifice which judas Machabeus made and procured at Jerusalem, for the offences of his people that perished in battle. Surely it is no other but the sacrifice of our Mediator, as S. Augustine termeth it, and the offering, upon the altar. It is no other than that oblation which so fully and lively expresseth the death and passion of Christ jesus: Who being once offered by the shedding of his blessed blood for the redemption of man kind, hath wrought such a virtuous effect, not only in the holy sacraments for the giving of grace and remission of sins, but also hath left in a marvelous mystery his own holy and blessed body and blood, as well to feed upon for the especial strength and comforth of our souls, as to offer up the same for the remembrance of his death, and cleansing of ou● sins. Not in that wise as it was done upon the Cross by the painful shedding of his blood, but as it was instituted first in the last Supper: Where Christ our God and Redeemer according to the order of Melchisedech, gave to his Apostles, and offered to God the father that body which afterward was betrayed, and the same blood which was shed after also for the remission of sin, being with all termed by him, the blood of the new and eternal testament: as that which in the new law should succeed the bloody offerings of the old testament. Whereof, God almighty being (as a man would say) loathsome or full, hath instituted this by his only Son, as a most pure and precious oblation and sacrifice, to be continued in the Church through out the costs and corners of the round world: Which being celebrated in the blessed memory of his sons passion, and having no other host nor oblation then that which then was offered, can be no other sacrifice then that which there was made for the forgiveness of sin, and redemption of the world. The which worthy action of Christ's Church, so fructefully applieth unto us the benefit of our masters death, that thereby we may have comfortable hope of remission of all such misdeeds, as most justly deserved God's wrath, and terrible indignation against us. CAP. VIII. 1 Now the good catholic shall have wholesome doctrine taught him, concerning the sacrifice of the mass, which first cometh in place of the sacrifices of the law, and that sacrifice which judas Machabaeus procured to be made at jerusalem. Well said M. Allen, shall the sacrifice of the mass shoulder out the sacrifice of Christ his death. The Apostle to the Hebrews teacheth us an other lesson. cap. 10. that Christ offering but one sacrifice for our sins, and that but once. cap. 9 hath made perfect for ever those that are sanctified: that our sins are taken away by that sacrifice, and therefore there is no more sacrifice for sins left. Wherefore it excuseth not, but increaseth your blasphemy, that you say the sacrifice of the mass is all one with the sacrifice of Christ his passion, which was but one sacrifice, and the same but once offered, and by that one oblation hath made perfect all them that receive any benefit by it. But Christ (you say) hath instituted this sacrifice to be offered up for the remembrance of his death, & the cleansing of our sins. Show one word M. Allen out of the Scripture of any sacrifice instituted by Christ at his last supper, or else you are a most horrible and blasphemous liar. The holy Ghost saith we are sanctified by his will, through the offering of the body of Christ once made for all, and where remission of sins is, there is left no sacrifice for sin. Heb. 10. But you are not content to join your sacrifice of the mass, as an appendix unto the only once offered and no more offerable sacrifice of Christ his death, except you proceed and utterly deny all the force and benefit of the oblation of his bitter passion. For you say, that Christ in his last supper, not only gave to his Apostles, but also offered to God his father that body which was after betrayed, and that blood which was shed after also for remission of sins, being that sacrifice which should succeed the bloody offerings of the old testament. what place have you here left for the passion of Christ? O intolerable blasphemy. Christ offered up but one sacrifice, and that you affirm to be before his death: Christ offered but once and that you affirm to be at his supper. By that one sacrifice which Christ did once offer, he redeemed us from all our sins, and that you affirm to have been offered in the sacrament. Do you not now plainly exclude the death and passion of Christ and all the merits thereof? who can abide to hear you afterward, when you say that the sacrifice of the mass, is an application of the benefits of Christ his death unto us, when now you affirm that it is the continuance of that sacrifice which Christ offered and instituted before his death, who never offered but one sacrifice and that but once. O Lord these blasphemers are more worthy to be beaten down with thunderbolts, than their blasphemies so directly contrary to the holy Scriptures have need to be confuted with words. 2 Now this is that blessed sacrifice, which S. Augustine with fear and reverence termeth in a thousand places of his works, the sacrifice of the Altar, the sacrifice of our Mediator, the sacrifice of our price, the sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ, the wholesome and profitable sacrifice, the sacrifice of Melchisedech, the new sacrifice. S. Chrysostom the reverent sacrifice, the honourable Mysteries, the Fearful sacrifice, The common names of honour given to the holy Mass in old time. Athanasius the propitiatory sacrifice, the unbloody Host. S. Cyprian the sacrifice of the Church, the perpetual sacrifice, the meat offering, the medicine for our infirmities. Irenaeus the pure sacrifice, the new sacrifice of the new testament. Clement again, the unbloody sacrifice, the rationable sacrifice: and so doth the holy Counsel of Ephesus call it. Dionysius the sacrifice most excellent of all sacrifices, and the host of hosts. The Latins altogether afterward named it the holy Mass, S. lib. epist. 33. epist. & praecat. prima praeparante ad Missam. so did S. Augustine call it, b super undec prover. Ambrose: c Histor. tripartit. 24. Hierome, d cap. li. 10. d Epiph. scholastic, with all the posterity both in Latin, and other barbarous languagies. Besides many other excellent high and peculiar callings, which can agreed to no other common worship of God internal nor external, but only to this most worthy and honourable sacrifice: which by the virtue that it hath received by the first exemplar thereof, and by the might and mercy of the Lamb of God, which under the cover of bread and wine is there the appointed host and oblation, is profitable both to the quick and the dead. And therefore is & hath been used ever sith the Apostles age, & by Christ's own prescription and theirs, The force and institution of the holy Mass. commanded to be religiously observed, and of all faithful people honoured as the principal protestation of our religion, as the ground of all true worship, as the badge of Christian peace, as the bond of holy society betwixt the head and the members, as the love knot betwixt Christ and his spouse, as the uniting of the live with the dead, the holy saints with us poor sinners, Angels with men, heavenly things with earthly, and the Creator of all with his own creatures beneath, as the plentiful condeth to derive the grace of Christ's death and merits of his passion, to the continual conforth of our souls, as the only practice of his eternal priesthood according to the order of Melchisedech, & as the only effectual memorial and comfortable memory, of the shedding of his blessed blood, and sufferance of so dear and painful death for our redemption. What altar so ever be erected against this altar, it is nothing else but a waste of God's worship, a canker of religion, The new communion is here described. a token of dissension, a separation of the holy society of the Christian communion, a larome towards schism, a departure from Christ, an open badge of heresy, a saulsy shouldering with Christ's Church and ordinance, an open robbery of his honour and priesthood, a plain stop of the passage of his gifts and grace in his loving house, the only way to paganism and eternal oblivion of his death and passion. 2 Now we shall hear how many of the old writers call it a sacrifice, but he need not take all that pains, for we confess, that the celebration of the lords supper, is commonly, but unproperly called of them a sacrifice: Howbeit they meant nothing less, then to set up a blasphemous altar, and new sacrifice, and priesthood against our Saviour Christ the only priest, altar, and sacrifice of our redemption, as Augustine calleth him, but only there meaning was, that it was a remembrance and memorial of that only sacrifice with thanks giving for the same. Augustine de fide ad Petrum Diaconum cap. 19 showing the difference of the sacrifices of the old law, the only sacrifice of Christ, and the sacrifice of bread and wine, which the Church offered saith. In illis enim carnalibus victimis figuratio fuit carnis Christi, quam pro peccatis nostris ipse sine peccato fuerat oblaturus, & sanguinis quem erat effusurus in remissionem peccatorum. In isto autem sacrificio gratiarum actio, atque commemoratio est carnis Christi, quam pro nobis obtulit, & sanguinis quem pro nobis idem Deus effudit. For in these carnal sacrifices, there was a figuring of the flesh of Christ, which he being with out sin, should offer for our sins, and of his blood, which he should shed for remission of our sins. But in this sacrifice, there is thanks giving and commemoration of the flesh of Christ, which he offered, for us, and his blood which the same God shed for us. In his 23. epistle to Bonifacius, he showeth, that sacraments, take the names of those things whereof they are sacraments, by a certain similitude and likeness that they have unto the things, themselves whereof they are sacraments. And so the sacrament of Christ's sacrifice is called a sacrifice as after a certain manner the sacrament of Christ's body is the body of Christ, and the sacrament of Christ's blood is the blood of Christ, even as the sacrament of faith is faith etc. Chrysostome upon the Epistle to the hebrews in cap. 10. Hom. 17. after he hath showed at large, the force of the only sacrifice of Christ once offered for all upon the Cross, declareth plainly how the sacrament of Christ's death in that time was called a sacrifice, which one testimony is sufficient to declare what all the fathers meant by abusing the name of sacrifice for the celebration of the lords Supper. Hoc autem quod nunc facimus in commemorationem quidem fit eius quod factum est. Hoc enim facite inquit, in meam commemorationem. Non aliud sacrificium, sicut pontifex, sed id ipsum semper facimus, magis autem recordationem sacrificij operamur. This that we do, we do it in remembrance of that which was done. For do this (saith he) in remembrance of me. We do not make an other sacrifice, as the high priest, but the self same always, yea rather we work the remembrance of a sacrifice. The same thing in effect declareth Cyprian lib. 2. epist. 3. Et quia passionis eius mentionem in sacrificijs omnibus facimus (passio est enim domini sacrificium quod offerimus) nihil aliud quam quod ipse fecit facere debemus. And because in all sacrifices we make mention of his passion (for the sacrifice which we offer is the passion of our Lord) we aught to do nothing but that which he did. Here it is manifest that Cyprian calleth the sacrament a sacrifice, as he calleth it the passion of Christ, and the remembrance of his passion. Irenaeus also showeth that by the name of the sacrifice of the Church, he meaneth not the sacrifice of the Mass, which they call propitiatory for the sins of the quick and the dead but the sacrifice of thanks giving and prayers who writeth these words. lib. 4. cap. 34. Igitur non sacrificia sanctificant hominem, non enim indiget sacrificio deus sed conscientia eius, quae offered sanctificat sacrificium, pura existens & praestat acceptare deum quasi ab amico. Therefore these sacrifices do not sanctify a man, for God needeth no sacrifices, but the conscience of him that doth offer being puer, doth sanctify the sacrifice, and causeth God to accept it as of a friend. justinus martyr also Dial. Cum Tryphone adversus judaeos in plain words affirmeth, that the sacrifice of bread and wine which the Church offereth, is the sacrifice of thanks giving in remembrance of the passion of Christ. The like places might be brought out almost of all the old writers, but for tediousness, and yet to show how unproperly some of them used the name of sacrifice, I will cite one place out of Ambrose, Ad virginem lapsam. Si fuisses communi sort defuncta flessent te modicum propter desiderium parents, sed exultassent granditer quia immaculatam praemiserunt virginem hostiam vivam, domino, propitiatricem suorum videlicet delictorum. If thou hadst died by the common lot, thy parents would have lamented a little for desire of thee, but they would have greatly rejoiced, because they had sent before them an immaculate virgin, a living sacrifice, propitiatory to the Lord for their sins. Here is the death of a virgin called a sacrifice propitiatory for sins, but very unproperly. Therefore if the fathers have spoken any thing unproperly of the celebration of the lords Supper in calling it a sacrifice or by any like term, which have in other places expounded their meaning, to be only a remembrance, a commemoration, a thanks giving for the only true sacrifice of Christ's death which is the propitiation for our sins, we must not contrary to their meaning upon colour of their words set up a new and blasphemous sacrifice to deface the only sacrifice of Christ, much less break out into such open blasphemies, as this Allen doth, that affirmeth this sacrifice of the Mass, to be the only practice of Christ's eternal priesthood, according to the order of Melchizedech which the Apostle comparing Melchizedech with Christ in all things in which he was comparable, never teacheth as any part of his priesthood Heb. 7. For that which they build upon, which make any resemblance of Melchizedechs' offering of bread and wine, with Christ's institution, is a false ground, for Melchizedech did not offer but bring forth, not to God, but to Abraham and his company, not a sacrifice, but a refection of bread and wine: Hieronym confesseth that Melchizedech protulit panem & vinum ad Euaginum. & in Quaest. super Genesim. so doth Ambrose de misterijs initiandis ca 8. so doth Augustine super titulum Psal. 33. Melchizedech brought forth bread and wine, yea the very vulgar translation hath proferens bringing forth. And that he brought it not forth to sacrifice, but to refresh the souldeirs of Abraham: Beside that it is plain by the text that Melchizedech being both a king and a priest, as a king liberally entertained Abraham and his army, and as a priest blessed him: we read also in scholastica historia. cap. 46. At vero Melchizedech rex Salem, obtulit ei panem & vinum quod quasi exponens josephus ait: Ministravit exercitui xemia, & multam abundantiam rerum opportunarum simul exhibuit, & super epulat benedixit deum qui Abrahae subdiderat inimicos. But Melchizedech king of Salem offered unto him bread and wine which josephus expounding, saith, he ministered unto his army gifts of entertainment and gave them also abundance of things necessary, and beside that feast he blessed God which had subdued unto Abraham his enemies. And out of doubt if the bringing forth of bread and wine had been any thing pertaining to the priesthood of Melchizedech, the Apostle to the Heb. 7. would not have omitted to have compared it with Christ. But of all others follies this is the greatest, that when the Papists have prated never so long of the sacrifice of bread and wine, at the last, they will have no bread nor wine at all in their sacrifice: wherein they are not only contrary to those of the old writers which compare the celebration of the lords Supper, which sometime they call the sacrifice of bread and wine (and yet but a sacrifice of thanksgiving) with Melchizedechs' bread and wine: but also they are contrary to themselves. As for the rest of that railing, which he calleth a description of the new communion, might aptly and truly be verified of the new sacrifice of the mass. And that I may answer words with matter, I will urge the Papists to tell me, what we say or do in the celebration of the holy communion, which Christ commanded us not to say and do, or what Christ did or commanded us to do, which we do not therein? If all the dogged Papists in the world, be not able to show our default herein, as we have showed their infinite abuses and blasphemies, of their mass, then is our celebration the very true communion of the body and blood of Christ, and theirs a very waist of God's worship, a canker of religion, etc. and a very blasphemy of all blasphemies, that ever were uttered sigh the beginning of the world, whereby every scald hedge priest, is made not only equal, but also superior to Christ himself, whom he presumeth to offer, who could not be offered by any, but by himself. 3 The devil which is the old serpent, knowing by long experience and often proof, that the holy Mass is the chief bane of sin and his wicked kingdom, hath ever from the beginning shot at this mark by all the cursed endeavours of wicked heretics, to root out that strong guard of virtue, and pillar of devotion & religion. How so ever they dissemble at their first interaunce, the devil hath that fetch in his false head in all times of such toil and perturbation of religion. To which horrible endeavour though he hath for our sins and deserving put greater force, and wrought with more advantage than ever before, yet till the latter day and ●onne of perditions appearing, which is unknown to him, he shall not bring it to pass. The law, the sacrifice, the priesthood, the altar of the new and eternal testament prefigured by Melchizedech, & perfected by Christ, shall stand with and in the holy Church, till the worlds end. It is not your bore bread and board, Heresy with her disordered ministers, shall not out face Gods, church and Christ's eternal priesthood. not your Ministers, nor your Seniors, nor Elders, nor your Nuper intendents, nor what so ever you lift be called, that shall out face God's Church. She hath by the spirit of God beaten down your proudders, the Arrians: the Macedonians: the anabaptists, and all your predecessors. And now I tell you, and be bold of it, as old as our mother waxeth, as contemptible as you make her, so little as you regard her, she will once yet in her old days give the Zwinglians, the Lutherans, or of what other strange soldier so ever your camp standeth, an open overthrow. For if Hell were broken lose, and the gates open, Psal. 100 Mat. 16. it could not prevail. We have our Priesthood confirmed by a fair oath, we have our mother's righ● by an open promise established. 3 This part of the chapter, containeth nothing but blasphemous boasting and more than ruffianlike railing. First that the devil which loveth the mass better than he doth holy water, shall not abolish it until the last day and son of perditions appearing. I doubt not but the devil will do all that he can to uphold it, to the end of the world, and whether he shall prevail or no I will not dispute, but this I will boldly affirm, because I have good warrant, that the son of perdition, who long ago appeared and is now already greatly wasted and consumed with the breath of Christ's mouth, which is his holy word, shall together with the mass, and all them that obstinately defend it, be utterly abolished at the glorious appearing of our Saviour Christ in the end of the world, and from thence forth with him be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, there to be burned with the devil and his angels world without end. 2. The. 2. Apoc. 19 & 20. Secondly he saith that our bore bread board ministers, &c: shall not out face their synagogue of Satan, which he calleth the Church of God. But the lords table with the bread and wine which we minister in remembrance of Christ's death, and blood shedding, which our ministers, Seniors or elders, and Bishops or superintendents, when they shall be all approved by the word of God, shall be able to abide the judgement of God and be allowed for disposers of his mysteries and ministers of Christ: when your altar, transubstantiation, renting of the Sacrament in pieces, robbing the people of the blood of Christ, worshipping of creatures, &c: with your Pope, Cardinals, Priests, Monks, Friars, Canons, Nuns and all the rest of that romish rabble, having no testimony out of the word of God, either of their names, or of the signification of their names, shall be condemned of heresy, hypocrisy, Idolatry, and blasphemy, and have the reward that to such horrible profaners of Gods holy ordinance, appertaineth. Thirdly you boast that your church hath beaten down our prowders the Arians, Macedonians, anabaptists. It was the Church of Christ, that overthrew those heretics, & not your Antichristian assembly of heretics. And therefore I tell you and be bold of it, that old rotten whore of Babylon your mother, in whose name you threaten us, as one privy of her mischievous and malicious devices, shall never bring to pass that pestilent plat form which was concluded against us in the conspiracy of Trent. The Lord shall maintain his Church, as he hath done hitherto, in spite of the devil and the Pope for all their cruelty, treason, perjury, truce breaking, and most unnatural murdering. But of all other blasphemies who can abide this? that your priesthood in the devils name, is confirmed by a fair oath, Psal. 110. O Lord who would ever have thought that any which professed the name of Christ, would ever have challenged unto themselves against Christ that which never any Turk or jew durst presume to boast of. What will you leave to Christ O you hell hounds? when you take from him both his kingdom and his priesthood, yea his eternal divinity, and everlasting nativity. For unto whom so ever the priesthood is confirmed by oath, of him that said, Thou art a Priest for ever according to the order of Melchizedech, to him is confirmed an everlasting kingdom and an everlasting priesthood: of the same it is said: The Lord said unto my Lord sit thou on my right hand until I make thy enemies thy foot stool: to the same it is said that The sceptre of thy power: The Lord shall send out of Zion rule thou in the midst of thine enemies: finally take the priesthood confirmed with an oath and take the whole Psalm unto you. O Lucifer whether wilt thou climb? wilt thou not be content with the old Lucifer to be like unto the most highest, but wilt thou thrust down the most highest himself even the son of God from the right hand of his father, and sit at the right hand of God thyself? O ye that would see how Antichrist sitteth in the temple of God boasting himself to be God, and exalted above all that is called God or worshipped as God, draw near and hearken what he saith of himself, by one of his blasphemous mouths. Our priesthood is confirmed unto us by a fair oath, Psal. 110. For seeing he allegeth the Psal. 110. to confirm his saying, he can not excuse or qualify the matter by that general royal priesthood which all the children of God have through Christ their head, to offer up spiritual sacrifices unto God. 1. Pet. 2. Apo. 2. For that priesthood which he challengeth by oath, is to offer a sacrifice propitiatory, which he affirmeth the Popish priests to do in their Mass. But jest I might seem to do them wrong in denying unto them that priesthood, which is confirmed by oath Psal. 110. Let us here what the holy Ghost sayeth thereof Hebr. 7. And in as much as Christ was not made priest with out the oath (where as they meaning the sons of Aaron were made priest with out an oath, but he with the oath by him that said unto him, the Lord hath sworn & will not repent thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedech) by so much is jesus made surety of a better testament. And among them many were made priests because they were not suffered to endure by reason of death, but he because he abideth for ever, had such a priesthood as passeth not by succession. Wherefore he is able perfectly to save those that come unto God by him seeing he liveth for ever, to make intercession for them. For such an high priest it become us to have, which is holy harmless, and undefiled, separated from sinners, and made higher than the heavens which needed not daily as those high priest, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, then for the people's: for that did he once for all when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity: but the word of the oath that was since the law, maketh the son who is consecrated for ever more. Mark well the plain words of this testimony, and judge indifferently, whether I charge them with greater blasphemy, then ensueth this there assertion, That there priesthood is confirmed by oath Psal. 110. 4 And yet nevertheless, good Catholic Christian, The holy Mass taken away for our sins. let us thus persuade ourselves, that we have so long lost the unestimable treasure of this holy sacrifice, for our grievous sins: it is our sins I say (woe is us therefore) which have deserved this plague, which have set us at variance with God and our merciful redeemer, which have taken from us, as unworthy of so great a treasure, the daily sacrifice, the help of those which are a live, the comfort of those which are departed, the only ground of all religion and acceptable worship of God. And our misery is the greater because few feel the sore. The lack of this sacrifice for the departed only with the godly prayers therein, Men that were grievous offenders in old time punished by lack of the sacrifice. was counted when God's truth and Church flourished, the greatest and extremest punishment that could be devised, and ever enjoined for some notable crime to the terror of other, as for horrible desperation, for wilful heresy, for contempt of the decrees of Gods holy ministers, as by the late alleged place out of S. Cyprian may be very profitably noted. Allasse we have now in a manner lost that wholly, which then was denied only to such for their grievous punishments, as were heinous offenders. Otherwise in earnest consideration of our case can not I think, but that this blessed jewel is now denied us of almighty God generally for our grievous offences, which then was denied by his ministers to some one offender, for the due punishment of sin and wickedness. O good reader what would that holy martyr have said if he had lived in our days, when to have that oblation either for the quick or dead, which once was esteemed so necessary that no Christian man neither could in his life nor after his death lack it, is now if itself odious to most men, and (which abhorreth me to speak) punishable by the laws of the spiritualty, and condemned well near of all men? what ween you this blessed bishop would have said, if he had seen the holy host and offering to have been taken away, De Coena domini. which he once affirmed to be so necessary, that if it were taken away or wasted, there were no religion nor worship of God at all? would not he think you, with fervent zeal of God's house have cried out upon the sins of the people, the blindness of the preachers and pastors, the unworthiness of these our doleful days? and bewailed his own misery as we should do ours, crying out with an old blessed father? Ita Policarp. ex Iren. O Deus bone in quae me seruasti tempora, ut ista blasphemia sustineam, O Lord that I should be reserved for these times, to abide such blasphemy. Victor reporteth in his history of the persecution of the vandals that were Arians, Victor de persecut. Vandal. that the Governor of that cursed company of cruel heretics, would not suffer the Christian men whom he had slain, to be brought home with service, and sacrifice: but then the good people wonderfully bewailed their case, seeing them practise cruelty upon their souls also: in that they would not suffer them to enjoin at their departure and burial, the rites of God's Church. Thus saith that Author. Quis vero sustineat atque possit sine lachrymis recordari, dum praeciperet nostrorum corpora defunctorum, sine solemnitate hymnorum cum silentio ad sepulchra perduci? O Lord who could have found in his heart to behold then, or could yet once think of it with out tears, how he gave in charge, that the bodies of our brethren departed, should be brought to the grave and buried with out all solemnity of hymns in silence and sorrow? It was ever given to wicked hard hearted heretics, to prohibere gratiam mortuis: to be unmerciful, Eccles. ca 7. and to stay the favour of good men from the departed. Novatus as S. Cyprian chargeth him, Epist. 8. li. 2. noluit patrem fame defunctum sepelire: would not bury his own father dead of hunger bane. 4 This collorable and hypocritical complaint containeth nothing for us needful for to answer, for the place of Cyprian, is answered already. But this may be demanded of him, seeing he calleth the sacrifice of the Mass the only ground of all religion and acceptable worship of God, what religion or worship God had before the Mass came into the world? But this is the howling of the merchants for the decay of Babylon, because no man buyeth their ware any more: what so ever they pretend this is the cause of their mourning, and this lamentation shallbe continued even unto hell fire, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth for ever. 5 But to let such men pass with the present bewailing of our unhappy days, let us with more comfort behold the steps of good men passed: how kindly and brother like they have principally procured the holy sacrifice for their friends and fellows gone before. For seeing the only prayers of good men have been proved so profitable, and the representation of some holy works of alms, hath often moved God to pity (as we have proved) towards the release of the departed his pain, what may we not hope to obtain for our brethren deceased, when we shall join in prayers with the holy Angels, with the blessed saints, with God's holy ministers in the representation of Christ's most blessed body and blood before the face of his father? when the whole Church of God in that honourable action prayeth, and Christ himself is both the sacrifice and the priest, both the asker and the giver of pardon, when the majesty of God the blessed trinity, is passingly pleaced by the merits of Christ's death so lively set out in these honourable, but unspeakable mysteries, what may we not here procure for the soul of the churches child? what shall be denied to so humble askers in the presence of Gods own son and begging mercy for his deaths sake? And so doth S. Chrysostome assure the faithful, Homil. 3. in Epistolam ad Philipp. in these golden words: Non frustra ab apostolis sancitum est, ut in celebratione venerandorum mysteriorum, memoria fiat eorum, qui hinc discesserunt: noverunt quip illis multum hinc emolumenti fieri, multum utilitatis. stante siquidem universo populo, manus in coelos extendente coetu item sacerdotali, verendoque proposito sacrificio, quomodo deum non placaremus pro istis orantes? It was not for naught that the Apostles decreed and ordained, that in the celebration of the honourable mysteries there should be an especial memorial of the departed: for they right w●ll knew great commodity and benefit to arise there upon. For the whole multitude holding up their hands towards heaven, together with the company and choir of priests, and the dreadful sacrifice set forth before all men, how is it possible but we should appease God's wrath praying for them? look ye what this man's judgement was, and see from whence he had it, even of the holy Apostles▪ I warrant you, and no worse nor later founders. But of that point, for the full deriving of our Christian usage from the first fathers of our faith, more convenient place shall be given hereafter, Now I will serve the cause and the reader's desire, first with certain peculiar examples of most learned and godly father's worthy of all credit, in the godly provision for certain of their dearest friends by sacrifice and prayer, both made by themselves & procured by others. That we may have here not only whom to believe teaching the truth, but whom to follow practising the same with devotion, which they preached with constancy before. 5 Not altogether out of hope yet, to found some foolish merchants that will pay dearly for unprofitable wares, you comfort yourself after your complaint, exhorting men to procure the holy sacrifice for their friends and fellows. why M. Allen if there be either such necessity or such profit of that sacrifice, wherefore do not your priests with out procurement offer it up to the uttermost advantage that may be had by it? But you must have procurers, yea you must have good pay masters, or else the old proverb must be true: Not penny no pater noster. As touching the place of Chrysostome I have showed already by his own interpretation, that although he allow prayers for the dead used in time of the celebration which he calleth sacrifice: yet he alloweth no sacrifice in deed, but only a thanks giving in remembrance of the sacrifice of Christ. But where he sayeth it was decreed by the Apostles that in the celebration of the holy mysteries, a remembrance should be made of them that are departed, he must pardon us of crediting, because he can not show it out of the acts and writings of the Apostles. And we will be bold to charge him with his own saying Hom. De Adam & Heva. Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secundum predictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt, ut prorsus non opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit prefixis sententijs contrarium: we think it sufficeth enough, what so ever the writings of the Apostles have taught us, according to the foresaid rules, in so much that we count it not at all Catholic, what so ever shall appear contrary to the rules appointed. And again In Genes. Hom. 58. Vides in quantam absurditatem incidunt qui divinae scripturae canonem sequi nolunt, sed suis cogitationibus permittunt omnia. Thou seest into how great absurdity they fall, which will not follow the canon of holy Scripture, but permit all things to their own cogitations, but if we be further urged we will allege that which he saith, In evan. joan. Hom. 58. Qui sacra non utitur Scriptura, sed ascendit aliunde: id est, non concessa via, fur est. He that useth not the holy Scripture but climbeth an other way, that is by a way not allowed, is a thief. We may be as bold with Chrysostome, as he said he would be with Paul himself, in 2. ad Tim. ho. 2. Plus aliquid dica, ne Paulo quidem obedire oportet, si quid dixerit proprium, si quid humanum, sed Apostolo, Christum in se loquentem circumferenti. I will say somewhat more, we must not be ruled by Paul himself, if he speak any thing that is his own, and any thing that is human, but we must obey the Apostle when he carrieth Christ speaking in him. Wherefore seeing it is certain by testimony of justinus Martyr, that there was no mention of the dead in the celebration of the Lords supper, for more than an hundredth years after Christ, we must not believe Chrysostome without Scripture, affirming that it was ordained so by the Apostles. That the practice of any point in religion maketh the most open show of the father's faith. And that all holy men have in plain words and most godly prayers uttered their belief in our matter. CAP. IX. 1 ANd I take the open practice of any point, to be a more pithy protestation of a man's faith, then by words can be made. Therefore if a man were doubtful either of the truth of any article, or of the meaning of some doctor's words, look the same man's practice, and it shall put him out of doubt thereof strait ways. as for an example: seem some words of S. Augustine to make for the sacramentaries heresy, that Christ is in the honourable sacrament but by figure? or Theodoretus, or any other ancient father's declaration? are their words doubtful to the reader? leave the words then, if thou sincerely seek for truth with out contention, & seek out if thou can, some practice of those same men, and that Church where they lived, for the same point. But what way of work in this matter consisting in doctrine, may assure us of their belief, of whose words we doubted before? Marry sir this: Theodor▪ dial. 2. Aug. super psal. 98. Dionis. ecclesiast. hierarch. cap. 3. Basil. de spiritu Sanct. cap. 17. look how they behaved themselves in the receiving of it, in the ministering of it, in the careful keeping of it, whether they did adore it with godly honour, whether they solemnly showed it to the people to be worshipped, whether they prayed by solemn and formal words unto it, whether they taught their children to call it God and Christ: yea so far that Augustine affirmeth that the children in his days till they were after instructed, thought that God appeared in the shape of bread: as all these yongers, seeing the honour & reverence of their elders, Lib. 3. de Trin. c. 10. and themselves nurtered to hold up their hands and knock their breasts, must yet needs marvel how these outward forms came to so holy an use. further whether the Christian people were not slandered for worshipping and doing sacrifice to Ceres and Bacchus, Lib. 20. contra Faustum cap. 13. when the wicked infidels saw their behaviour towards the holy Host: whether it was not used in working of miracles, in driving away devils, in dangerous times of tempests, of traveling, of sickness, and in other necessities. Well these be plain practices, no heretic can deny but they have been so used of the whole Church of God, with many such other like in that holy action: which can not in any case stand with bore bread, or any other way of presence, but only the proper, true, and bodily presence of Christ's own person. A doctor's words may be misconstrued, may be picked out of place: may be writhe and wastred by false teachers, but a man's example can not lightly be misconstrued. And therefore heretics, whose purpose is always by subtlety to deceive the simple, will never make discourse by the practice of the Church, or exercise and example of the ancient learned men through out the Church of Christ: having enough for their meaning, to rack a place or two out of the father's whole works, that may seem to the ignorant to set forth their error. So if thou would know whether that place that our adversaries impudently do allege out of Gregory the great, against the sovereignty of the see of Rome, was in deed written for their seditious purpose, behold the practice of the same father, and thou shalls find himself exercise jurisdiction, at the very same time when he wrote it, in all provinces Christianed through out the world: both by excommunication of bishops that governed not well, by often citation of persons in extreme provinces, by many appeals made unto him, by continual legacies to other nations, sent either to convert them to the faith, or to govern in their doubtful affairs, and by all other exercise of spiritual jurisdiction. Is it not now a very false suggestion to the poor people, that this blessed man in so plain utterance of his meaning by works and not by words, should yet be brought as a witness to condemn himself? though the words being well understand make for no such meaning in deed, as by others it hath been sufficiently declared. The like impudency it is, to allege S. Bernarde against the Mass or the presence of Christ in the blessed Sacrament. Good man I dare say for him, he said Mass every day, if he were well at ease: For other business, did not commonly let them in those days, from that work of all other most necessary. So the reciting out of S. Ambrose for the improving of invocation of holy Saints, is no more but an abuse of the simples ignorance: knowing well, that he and all other of that time did practise prayers both often to all holy martyrs, and sometimes peculiarly to such, whom for patronage they did especially choose of devotion amongst the rest. I speak not this, that any might hereby judge the doctor's words to stand against their own deeds: but that every man may perceive, that where the works and practice of all men be so plain, their words in some one place found dark, can not by any means be prejudicial to that truth which in all other placies they plainly set forth by words, and by the evident testimony of their own practice, to the world protest the same. Therefore I would exhort all men in Christ's name, for their own salvations sake, to take heed how they give credit to these libels containing certain wrested places out of the doctors works, against any truth, which by the further discourse of usage and practice, they are not able before the learned to justify. And therefore that all mistrust of untrue dealing may be far from us, I will, as I said, let them have the feeling and handling of our cause thoroughly. They shall behold in examples of most noble personages, both for their name, virtue, and learning, the peculiar practices in praying and Mass saying for the dead both in the ancient Greek and Latin churches. CAP. IX. 1 Now shall we have the practice and examples of the old fathers, concerning sacrifice and prayer for the dead. And here M. Allen before he cometh to the matter, maketh much a do to show how much more certain, the practice is, than the words of any doctor: because the words may be mistrusted, or wrested, the practice can not be altered. As though he could show us any practice, but that which is uttered in their words, in which if there be any obscurity or impropriety, there shall be as great controversy of their works as of their doctrine, as they used the name of sacrifice in their teaching, so they use it, in declaring what they did practise according to their teaching. And therefore it is not worth a straw that M. Allen thinketh, we may know their meaning rather by their practice then by their words: except he could either in picture, or in vision, describe unto us every thing that they did. But let us consider the examples of those things, which he bringeth in to prove that practice is more certain than words. First he can not deny, but the words of Augustine and Theodoretus stand with us, that the sacrament of Christ's supper is a figure of his body and blood and not the same naturally. But the practice must expound the words, not to stand with us. For they did so carefully keep it, adore it, show it to be worshipped, prayed to it, yea they taught children to call it God and Lord, which they would not have done, if they had not believed it to be the very body of Christ. For this is cited 1. Theodoret. Dial. 2. in the margin. His words be not set down because they be directly against transubstantiation, and nothing favouring the gross imagined presence of Christ's body in the sacrament: for he calleth the sacrament signa mystica, the mystical signs, and the divine mysteries which represent the body of Christ, that is a true body and not fantastical or absorbed of the divinity as the Eutychians dreamt, wherefore it is plain that the adoration he speaketh of, is nothing else but the reverent estimation of the sacrament, to be that which by Christ it is ordained to be, and not any knocking or kneeling as M. Allen would have us believe. Augustine also upon the 98. Psalm is cited, belike to prove the adoration, who in deed, alloweth the adoration of the body of Christ whereof that is a sacrament, but neither can you prove out of that place, that he would have the sacrament honoured, nor that the sacrament is the very body of Christ, but even in the same place speaking of the sacrament, he saith in the person of Christ, non hoc corpus quod videtis manducaturi estis, & bibituri illum sanguinem quem fusuri sunt qui me crucifigent. Sacramentum aliquod vobis commendavi, spiritualiter intellectum vivificabit vos. You shall not eat this body which you see, not drink this blood which they shall shed, which shall crucify me. I have commended to you a sacrament, which being spiritually understood shall quicken you. As for Dionysius because he is a counterfect antiquity I will not vouchasafe to answer him. Basill in his book de spiritu sancto, cap. 27. hath these words: The words of invocation when the bread of thanks giving, and the cup of blessing is showed, which of the holy Apostles hath left us in writing? Before we go any further, I will take this by the way, that what so ever it was, that he spoke of, it is not taught by the scripture, no more than many other ceremonies that he rehearseth in the same place. Howbeit it is plain enough, that he meaneth not, that the words of invocation were said unto the bread, or the cup, but unto God who was called upon to bless those his creatures, that they might be sanctified to the holy use of Christ his institution. The showing of the bread and the cup▪ was not to adore it (as M. Allen dreameth) for then he would have called it the body and blood of Christ, but either to stir up the people to pray effectually, or to admonish them that all things were ready that they might prepare themselves to communicate. And whereas he allegeth out of Augustine De Trinit. lib. 3. cap. 10. that children were taught to call it God and Christ, he shamefully abuseth his reader, for no such thing can be gathered out of Augustins words, which are these: Illas etiam nubes etc. Now as touching those clouds or fire, how the Angels did make them, or took them upon them to signify that which they did bring message of: Although the Lord or the holy Ghost was showed in these forms what man a live doth know? even as young children know not what is set on the altar, and when the celebration of piety is finished is spent out, whereof or how it is made, whereof it is taken into the use of religion? And if they should never learn by experience of their own, or of others, and never see that show of things but in the celebration of the sacraments, where it is offered and given and said unto them with most grave authority whose body and blood it is, they would believe nothing else but only that the Lord hath appeared to the eyes of mortal men in that likeness, and that out of such a side being stricken that the same liquor did flow. These words are plain that Augustine affirmeth that no man knoweth more of those shapes, in which the Angels did appear, then young children would imagine of the presence of Christ in the sacrament, if they were not otherwise instructed, then in telling them when they receive it, that it is the body of Christ. whereby the clean contrary to that which Allen affirmeth is plainly gathered, that children were otherwise instructed, first by experience, because they saw bread else where, then in the celebration, and also by doctrine, when they were able to understand that it was not the Lord himself in the shape of bread, but only a sacrament and representation of him. And by the way note here, one practice of a notable error in Augustine's time, that the sacrament of the lords supper was given to children, which witted not what it meant, contrary to the word of God, who requireth men to examine themselves before they receive it, wherefore if any other practice were in his time, or allowed by him contrary to God's word, we are no more bound unto it, then unto this, which even the Papists themselves will confess to be erroneous. Finally what the Christians did by that they were slandered with all, is a sorry proof, they were slandered to have worshipped an Asses head, to kill men and eat them, to use all manner of beastliness in their meetings. The rest of the practice that M. Allen nameth, with out show of proof, I pass over as unworthy of answer. The practice of Gregory, although it were much more modest then of his successors, yet can it not be excused, but it was contrary to his doctrine whereby he reproved an other in that he was not altogether clear himself. Bernarde was but of late time, wherefore although he might note some abuses of the Mass, yet he might also say it himself, but how often I can not tell. Touching Ambrose, which was suddenly made a bishop, before he was a perfect Christian, if some steps of hethenishe invocation or rhetorical apostrophees and prosopopees appear to be in him, and some other also about his time, yet was not that generally received of all the Church in his time, nor agreeable to the doctrine of S. Paul who showeth that we can invocate none but him in whom we believe, which to all true Christians is God only. 2 And where may we better begin, then with this famous Chrysostome? he bore the last witness with us for the relief of the departed by the prayers and holy oblation, therefore the practice of that excellent benefit shall first be showed upon himself. This blessed man therefore being banished, by the means of the Empress Eudoxia, for the defence of the Ecclesiastical discipline, & there in exile departing out of this world, was after her death by the happy and gracious child Theodosius▪ Lib. 10. Histo. trip. ca 18 & 20. the younger, translated from his obscure resting place, to Constantinople which was his own seat, there with meet honour to be buried, where with grace & wondered dignity he ruled the Church before. The History reporteth, that the people of that city, as thick as men ever went on ground, passed the waters of Bosphorus, and covered that cost wholly with light and lamp, with tapers and torcheiss to bring that blessed bishops body that was their own dear pastor, home again. The which passing treasure, being with all reverence laid up in the said city, then lo the gracious good Emperor, earnestly beholding the grave of S. Chrysostome, Theodosius jun. made most humble prayers to almighty God, for his father and mother's soul, the late Emperor and Empress: beseeching him of pardon & forgiveness for banishing that good Catholic bishop, because they did it of ignorance: & so the words may well be taken, that he asketh Chrysostome himself mercy also, for his parent's offence unjustly committed against him: and withal full kindly prayeth for their deceased souls. And so being buried in his own Church, he was then by Atticus a worthy man his second successor, written in the roll of Catholic bishops to be prayed for at the altar every day by name. Cum joannitae (saith Cassiodorus out of Socrates) seorsim apud seipsos sacra solemnia celebrarent, 12. Lib. tripartit, ca 2. jussit ut in orationibus memoria joannis haberetur, sicut aliorum dormientium episcoporum fieri consuevit. When chrysostom's partakers said Mass by themselves aside, Atticus gave in commandment that a memory should be had in the prayers of the Church for him, as the custom was that all bishops after their death should have. Here is now open practice of that which by words we proved before, here is an evident testimony of the usage of the Greek Church for the burial of bishops, and general custom of keeping their memorial in the public prayers and service of the Church. It were not needful to recite out of Eusebius the form of Constantinus his funerals, Euseb. in vita Constantini. kept in the same Church with solemnity of sacrifice, singing, lights and prayers. Nor the burial of the Emperor Constantius: who as Nazianzenus writeth, was brought forth with common praises of all men, with singing, lights, and lamps, 2 Orat. in julian. all the night long very honourably: with which things, saith he, we Christian men think it a blessed thing to honour the memories of our friends departed. And if the adversaries would here contentiously reason that these solemn rites of Christian burials be nothing profitable, or if the simple ask why they be profitable, S. Chrysostome may instruct such as list learn, In 2. Cap. and Heb. hom. 4. and correct the other that list reprehend in these words. Tell me saith he what all these festival lights in the burial of the deceased mean? what all this singing of Hymns and Psalms signifieth? to what end be so many priests and musicians called together? to which in fine he thus answereth: do we not all these things to give thanks to God and everlasting glory, that he hath delivered the departed from the troubles of this mortal life? do we not this to our comfort, and honour of the departed? And in the burial of the Noble matron Paula how the priests did sing, how the bishops of Jerusalem, Hierom. Epitap. Paulae. and of all Palestine and Syria for the most part carried torches, how the religious both men and women, did the rites of the dirigies, how her alms folks showed their coats to procure mercy, even as they did at Dorcas departure in the Acts of the Apostles, how they continued their singing and saying seven days together at the Church in Bethleem where she was buried, S. Hierom himself a true record thereof beareth witness in the like words as I have recited, and many more which the fear of weereing the reader causeth me full sore against my will, to omit. They so set forth not only the substance of the thing, which standeth in prayer and sacrifice, but also do prove against the enemies of good order, that the smallest ceremonies that our churches of late have used, were not lately taken up by our covetousness and superstition, but with more abundance, and numbered, and continuance, and solemnity, practised in the flower of Christ's Church, in divers principal parts of the world: as at Jerusalem and Constantinople: by the praising and approving of the gravest fathers of our faith. 2 Why M. Allen? what a mockery is this? do you make brag in the title of your chapter, that you will show the practice of all holy men in words and prayers for the dead, and now begin your examples no higher then at Chrysostom's translation, which was well near 400. years after Christ? The people with great plenty of lights, brought Chrysostom's body to Constantinople. Well this ceremony in carrying torches at burials being taken of the Gentiles, they used to honour the memory of them that were dead, as the ceremonies of the Heralds are used for the same end. What more? The Emperor prayed for his fathers and mother's souls, and as M. Allen thinketh (but the story saith not so) he prayed to S. Chrysostome for them. What else? Atticus caused mass to be said for him, that maketh up all. But where is any mention of mass or sacrifice of the mass M. Allen? Are you such a cunning interpreter, to expound celebrare sacra solemnia to say mass? In deed such interpretations will help you well to find that, which else you might seek long enough in the old writers and go without for all your labour. It is all one with M. Allen, to celebrated holy solemn service, & to say mass. But you will say, memory was made of him in the prayers, so might there be and yet his soul not prayed for▪ but how agreed you with yourself, M. Allen? your opinion is that Theodosius prayed to him as to a saint in heaven, how then did Atticus 'cause him to be prayed for as one lying in purgatory? I wisse you forget yourself to much to utter things so contrary, so near together. And as for the funerals of Constantinus and Constantius, what so ever you say, have no mention of Mass, nor sacrifice of Mass. In the burial of Constantinus, there is mention of prayer for his soul according to the error of the time, and in the funerals of Constantius, there were lights, but there is also showed the use of them, as I have touched already together with the necessity of some of them, because they were lighted in the night. The saying of Chrysostome, with the example of the burial of Paula, show nothing either of Mass, sacrifice, or prayer for the dead. And whereas you babble of the rites of your popish dirige, jeronym saith, all was singing of Psalms and giving thanks for her godly life & happy departing: Hebraeo, Graeco, Latino, Syroque sermon Psalmi in ordine personabant. Psalms were song in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and Syrian language, by course as there were divers nations that came to honour the solemnity of her funerals. Finally if your doctrine of purgatory were true, yet jeronym describeth her to be so perfect a woman, as no prayers needed to be said for her, her life was so full of good works, and her end so full of faith. And therefore M. Allen, here is nothing for the sacrifice of the Mass, whereof you made your promise to show the practice, in the chief parts of the world, naming jerusalem for one, when Paula was buried at Betheleem and not at jerusalem. 3 And now S. Augustine being of africa, so far from the other in distance of place, yet runneth jointly with them in religion. He purposely writing of the solemn rites of Christian funerals, in that golden treatise De cura pro mortuis agenda, De cura pro mortuis agenda. thus after long consideration of the whole cause determineth: that the pomp of burial, with all such solemnyties as there unto be in God's Church joined, is very seemly for that body which was the vessel of a Christian soul, and an instrument or companion in well working: whereunto it shall be also united in the resurrection, for to receive together the inheritance of the everlasting kingdom. But the lack of these, where they be not arrogantly contemned, or can not be had, is nothing hurtful to the good, nor the having any thing profitable to the wicked, as the examples of Lazarus and the Rich man may well prove. Therefore, it is the sacrifice and prayers which properly do help or relieve the departed. De civit. 1. Lib. c. 12. & 13. Curatio funeris (saith he) conditio sepulturae, pompa exequiarum, magis sunt vivorum solatia quàm subsidia mortuorum. Non tamen ideo contemnenda & abijcienda sunt corpora defunctorum, maxime que justorum & fidelium, quibus tanquam organis & vasis ad omnia bona opera sanctus usus est spiritus. Curious provision for the burial, and the pomp of the solemn obits, be rather done for the solace of the lief, then for help of the dead: nevertheless the bodies of the departed, namely of faithful folks, may not be contemned or cast forth, the which the holy Ghost used as vessels and instruments of well working, By all which things it may well be noted, that some things have been usually practised in funerals for thanks giving to almighty God, as Hymns and Psalms: other some, for decent comeliness and solace of the living, as the place of the burial, the lights, the ringing and such like? although even these things proceeding of love and devotion, be after a sort meritorious to the doers, and a help to them for whom they be procured, and good motions and memories of man's duty. For which causes those and the like have been uniformly used through out the whole Catholic Church from the beginning. But the principal things pertaining to the jousts of the departed, be prayers and sacrifice, and other such like, whereby they are assuredly much profited, by release of their pains. So saith S. Augustine in these words. Non existimemus, Cap. 18. de cura pro mort. ad mortuos pro quibus curam gerimus, pervenire, nisi quod pro eyes, sive altaris sive eleemosinarum sacrificijs, solemniter celebramus. Let us never think that any other thing properly appertaineth to the relief of the departed, saving the solemn sacrifice of the altar, alms and prayer. And therefore as the said holy doctor confesseth, The saints pray for the souls in purgatory, & we pray unto saictes for them. Cap. 4. de cura pro mort. the worthiness of the place where man is buried of itself profiteth not at all, but in respect of the holy prayers which be there rather made then else where, and the patronage of holy martyrs and saints, to whom he nothing doubteth but intercession may profitably be made for the deceased: for which cause, as it may appear by Paulinus, men were very desirous ever in the primitive Church to be buried by some blessed martyrs body. And so must we think also of burial by the reverent holy sacrament, that it wonderfully helpeth man, not for the placeis sake (although the devotion of the desirer is therein commendable) but because the living may there effectually commend the departed to God in the time of the holy sacrifice, & may be put in remembrance to call upon Christ's blessed person there present, for the soul of that man, which with care and study laid his body in the hope of resurrection, by the sovereign holy body that is already risen again. And this was the cause that our forefathers from Christ's time till our days have had respect and desire, as occasion served, to be buried there, where by order, prayers and sacrifice were daily had, and where the patronage of holy saints might best be procured. It is a high point of wisdom surely (good reader) only to see what godly wisdom our fathers used, in show of their zeal, faith, and Christianity. As it is an untolerable arrogancy and a singular sign of infidelity to laugh at, and blaspheme those things, whereof, not the proudest heretic that liveth, hath any intelligence at all: Obcoecavit enim eos malitia eorum. For their own malice hath blinded them. 3 But let us now follow you into Africa. First you allege Augustine in his book de cura pro mortuis agenda, wherein he is so full of doubts, that he knoweth not himself, what to determine but that he will hold the common opinion received in his time. But this pasteth (M. Allen) that you will content yourself with Augustine's authority, that the pomp of burial, etc. profiteth not the dead, but that you will have lights, ringing, etc. proceeding of love and devotion, to help them, for whom they are procured. If you may go beyond Augustine, why may not we come short of him? But in the 18. chapter, he nameth the sacrifice of the altar, to be profitable to the dead. This soundeth somewhat like the matter, but if it be well marked, it maketh nothing for the propitiatory sacrifice of the Mass, for even in the same place, he calleth it the sacrifice of alms, which is but a sacrifice of thanks giving. And that by this sacrifice he meaneth not the body of Christ, nor a propitiatory sacrifice is manifest in his book de fide ad Petrum diaconum, cap. 19 where he saith, that Christ offered himself for us, that sacrifice whereby God was reconciled, and that the Church offered to Christ the sacrifice of bread and wine in faith, and charity, which is a thanks giving and memorial of his death. The body of Christ is not offered to himself, but thanks giving is offered to him for the offering of his body for us. His words are. Firmissimè tene & nullatenus dubites, ipsum unigenitum, etc. Hold most steadfastly and nothing doubt then, that the only begotten son of God, being made flesh, offered himself for us a sacrifice & oblation for a sweet favour unto God to whom with the father and the holy Ghost by the patriarchs, Prophets and Priests in time of the old Testament, beasts were sacrificed: and to whom now, that is in the time of the new Testament, together with the father and the holy Ghost, with whom his divinity is all one, the holy Catholic Church, throughout all the world, ceaseth not to offer the sacrifice of bread and wine in faith and charity. For in these carnal sacrifices there was a figuring of the flesh of Christ, which he himself being without sin should offer for our sins. But in this sacrifice there is thanks giving & commemoration of the flesh of Christ which he offered for us and of his blood which the same God shed for us. Now for the other point of invocation of Saints, M. Allen affirmeth, that S. Augustine never doubteth but intercession may be made unto them for the dead, who so ever will take pains to read the treatise de cura pro mortuis agenda, shall found nothing else but doubts and questions of that matter, as cap. 5. Cum ergo matter fidelis filij defuncti corpus desyderavit in Basilicam martyris poni, si quidem credidit eius animam meritis martyris adiwari, hoc quod ita credidit supplicatio quaedam fuit, & haec profuit si quid profuit. Therefore when the faithful mother desired the body of her faithful son departed to be laid in the Church of the Martyr, if she believed that his soul might be helped by the metites of the martyr, this that she so believed was a certain supplication, and this profited if any thing profited. Here Augustine doubteth whether supplications to the Martyr profit any thing or no. moreover he can not tell, how the Saints departed should know our necessities or hear our prayers, cap. 15. Proindè fatendum est nescire quidem mortuos quid agatur, sed dum hic agitur, postea vero audire ab eyes qui hinc ad eos moriendo pergant. Wherefore it must be confessed, that the dead truly know not what is done here, while it is a doing, but afterward do here it of them, which by death do pass from hence unto them. Wherefore if we will have any thing unto them, we must tarry until some dead may carry our passage, and it must be such a one also, as knoweth our case, or else we are never the near. Possun● & ab angelis qui rebus quae aguntur hîc praesto sunt audire aliquid mortui. It may be also that the dead here some what of those Angels which are present at such things as are done here. cap. 16. Quanquam ista quaestio vires intelligentiae meae vincat, quemadmodum opitulantur martyrs ijs quos per eos certum est opitulari. Although this question passeth the strength of mine understanding how the martyrs help them whom it is certain to be helped of them. These places and the whole discourse of that book, doth prove, that although Augustine were willing to meinteine the superstition that was not thoroughly confirmed in his time, about burials and invocation of Saints, yet he hath nothing of certainty out of the word of God, either to persuade his own conscience, or to satisfy them that moved the doubts unto him. 4 But leaving the things not principally intended, as sufficiently by use of the Church approved, let us turn to the practice of the oblation and prayers, in the dirigies of the ancient: that seeing them both pray and say Mass for their dearest friends souls, thou may be bold to use the same for thine. That do I call Mass, which they call sacrifice: Because S. Hyerom useth it in the same sense, in these words: Sunt qui de levioribus peccatis cum quibus obligati defuncti sunt post mortem possunt absolui: Super 11. cap. prover. vel poenis videlicet castigati, vel suorum praecibus & eleemosinis, missarumque celebrationibus, etc. There be some, which after their death may have absolution of their lighter offences, in the debt whereof they passed out of this life: either after just punishment for the same suffered, or else through the prayers and alms of their friends, with the celebration of Masses. So saith S. Hyerom, or else as some think, the reverent Beda. either of their grave judgement weigheth more with me, than any one man's alieve. Well therefore, Mass, oblation, Mass alway said for the departed. or sacrifice, call it as you will, all is one for our purpose, and like hated of heretics: how so ever it be named, it was practised with prayers for the rest of the departed through out the Christian world. S. Ambrose exhorteth other men to do it for their friends, he did it for his own. Writing therefore a letter of comfort to one Faustinus that over much bewailed the death of his sister, thus with comfort he giveth counsel: Non tam deplorandam quàm prosequendam orationibus reor, Ambros. epist. 8. l. 2. nec maestificandam lachrymis tuis, sed magis oblationibus animam eius Domino commendandam arbitor. I suppose thy sister's case should not so much be lamented, as she by thy prayers aught to be relieved: Thou must not sadden her soul by tears, but by oblations commend her to our Lord. If the new bishops were like S. Ambros. their teaching would not be contrary to his. How many bishops now in England of the new gise, would follow this kind of consolation by letters? How many would exhort their friends to got Mass said, or prayers for their lovers rest? So many as be like good Ambrose surely would so do: that is never a one: make their account as near as they can. But will you see how he practised upon his own prince the Emperor Theodosius? Da requiem perfecto servo tuo Theodosio, Super obit. Theodosij Imperatoris. requiem quam praeparasti sanctis tuis. Illò convertatur anima eius unde descendit: dilexi, & ideo prosequar cum usque ad regionem vivorum, nec deseram, donec fletu, praecibus, inducam virum quò sua merita vocant, in montem Domini sanctum. Give rest good Lord unto thy good servant Theodosius, even that rest which thou hast prepared for the holy Saints. Let his soul ascend from whence it came. I loved him, and therefore I will prosecute him unto the land of the living, I will never leave him, till with tears & prayers I bring that man according to his deserving, to the holy hill of God. This man knew his duty towards his prince, whom he loved a lief, and forsook not being dead: Super obitu Valentiniani. So did he pray and offer for Gratianus and Valentinianus: so did he use the same for his own dear brother the worthy Satyrus, in these words much to be noted. Now Lord almighty to thee do I commend the good soul of my brother Satyrus now lately departed, to thee O Lord do I make my oblation, accept I besich thee this due office of a brother, In oration funebr. super satire. and mercifully look upon the sacrifice of a priest. See lo, this good father used of brotherhood prayers, and because he was a priest he did sacrifice, in that respect, and said Mass for his brother's souls rest. Whom in his funeral oration he setteth forth with many singular praises and commendations, especially that he was both Christianed and buried in the unity of the Roman Church, that is to say (as himself expoundeth it) of the Catholic faith. 4 All this while we have weighted for dirige, and Mass, according to your promise, and now belike we shall have it out of S. Hieronyme I trow. But who will grant you, that the commentary upon the proverbs out of which you allege your testimony, is Hieronyms' work? The old copies in parchment, as Amerbachius confesseth, declare that Beda was the author of it. Which you can not utterly deny yourself, but all is one with you. But so it is not with us, to brag of S. Hieronyms' authority and then to allege one that is 400 years younger than he. But either of their judgements weigheth more with you, than any one man's a live, beware what you say, do you not esteem the Pope's judgement more than either Bede or jeronym? but perhaps you will answer me that the Pope is no man. Nec Deus es nec homo quasi neuter es inter utrumque. Thou art neither God nor man, but a neuter between both, you know who writ this verse unto the Pope, and how it is allowed for catholic in the book of the Pope's canon law. Well passing over Bede, we will come to Ambrose, who in deed alloweth prayer for the dead, as it was a common error in his time, but not the sacrifice of the Mass, in that sense the Papists do. I have showed before, how unproperly he useth the name of sacrifice, as in his book de virginibus, lib. 1. Virgo matris hostia est, cuius quotidiano sacrificio vis divina placatur. A virgin is the oblation of her mother, by whose daily sacrifice the wrath of God is pacified. But speaking expressly of the celebration, he showeth that Christ is not offered but by himself, and that the oblation which is here made of him is but in an image and representation Officiorum cap. 48. Hic in imagine, ibi in veritate ubi apud Patrem pro nobis quasi advocatus interuenit. Here he is offered in representation, there in deed, where he maketh intercession for us with the father as an advocate. As for the oblations which he nameth in the 8. Epistle to Faustinus, be nothing but prayers. For as he doth but vary his words, where he saith weeping and mourning which are all one, even so it is all one where he saith prayers and oblations. And whereas you say there are none of our new Bishops will follow Ambrose in such kind of letters, they can show better reason not to follow him where he went amiss, than your popish Prelates can show not to follow him where he writ well. which of your Prelates will follow him in his commentary upon the epistle to the Romans? where he so often affirmeth that a man is justified before God by faith only. Or in his commentary upon the Apocalyps, where he interpreteth the whore of Babylon to be the city of Rome, or where he affirmeth that not Peter but the faith & the confession of Peter, is the foundation of the Church: and that the primary of Peter was a primacy of faith not of honour, of confession not of authority, or higher order. De incarnate. Dom. cap. 4. & 5. or in an hundredth places of his writings beside. The other places that you allege out of Ambrose & Paulinus, do not so much help your purpose with prayer for the dead, as they are contrary to your doctrine concerning purgatory. For Ambrose praying for Theodosius, calleth him a perfect servant of God, but you hold that perfect men come not at all in purgatory, and therefore you have qualified the matter by translating perfecto famulo to thy good servant. Gratianus was not baptized, and therefore by your doctrine he should not come in purgatory, but straight to hell As for the words that Ambrose speaketh of oblations for his brother Satyrus, you do shamefully wrist them contrary to his meaning. For he was so far of from believing his brother to be in purgatory, that he prayeth to him as a Saint in heaven, and the oblation and sacrifice that he offereth to God, is the soul of his brother, and not prayers or masses for his soul. Tibi nunc omnipotens Deus inno xiam commendo animam, Tibi hostiam meam offero, cape propitius ac serenus fraternum munus, sacrificium sacerdotis, haec mei iam liba praemitto. To thee now O Almighty God I commend his innocent soul, to thee I offer my sacrifice, receive mercifully and favourably this gift of a brother, and sacrifice of a Priest, this sacrifice as a part of myself, I now sand before me. By which words as it is evident that he meaneth not the sacrifice of the mass, so it is manifest how licentiously he used the name of sacrifice & oblation, that we may know when he speaketh of the sacrifice of the body of Christ, he meaneth not so grossly as the Papists take it and use it themselves. 5 Paulinus one of the same time and Bishop of Nola, declareth himself to be of the same faith, by the like practice. He prayeth bitterly himself for a brother departed, and beseecheth Amandus, a holy man of his acquaintance, to join with him for the help of the departed soul. By his words the pain of Purgatory is noted, and the benefit of our prayers is proved▪ thus he saith. Impense rogamus, ut quasi frater unanimos fratres iwans, In Epist. 1. ad Amandum. & hanc meritis fidei tuae mercedem accumules, ut pro eo infirmitati nostrae compatiaris, & orandi ab ore conspires, ut misericors & miserator Deus, qui facit omnia in coelo & in terra, & in mari & abyssis, refrigeret animam stillicidijs misericordiae suae per orationes vestras, quia sicut ignis accensus ab eo ardebit usque ad inferni novissima, ita proculdubiò etiam ros indulgentiae inferna penetrabit, ut roscido pietatis eius lumine, in tenebris ardentibus aestuantes refrigeremur. I heartily beseek ye, that as one brother helping an other, you would increase the deserts of your holy faith, by taking compassion with me, & joining prayers with me for the departed soul: that the God of pity and compassion, who worketh all things in heaven and earth, in the sea and the depth, would at the contemplation of your prayers, refresh and cool his soul with some drop of his mercy. For as the fire kindled by him will burn to the bottom of hell beneath, so doubtless the dew of his grace and mercy, shall pass down to the neither parts, that by the comfortable lovely light of his piety, the souls broiling in burning darkness may be refreshed. And writing also to Delphinus, he alludeth to the fervent heat that the rich man suffered in Hell when he craved for Lazarus help. And prayeth him to refresh the man's soul deceased, Epist. 3. with some drop of pity, and his holy prayers. This man was very dear to Paulinus in his life time, for whom he was so careful after his death. he doubted not of his salvation, though (as he saith) he went out of this world a debtor, and therefore feared him to be in great pain. So certain was the doctrine of purgatory in the primitive Church, and so profitable were the prayers counted, for the deceased in Christ. 5 The words of Paulinus import, that he thought those whom he prayed for were in hell, how so ever you dissemble it by translating inferna the neither parts, and dare not rehearse his words unto Delphinus: where he judgeth them that were prayed for to be. where the rich man was that desired refreshing of Lazarus. For purgatory in those days was but even a breeding, & yet not thoroughly shaped out of prayers for the dead, and such other superstitious ceremonies as were used about the departed. 6 But if you will have, an examplare, and a full warrant of your duty and devotion, with understanding the usage of the ancient Church, in such abundance of many the like, you shall (I think) be fully satisfied for this part by S. Augustine, Ex lib. 9 Confess ca 11.13. & vlt. in the goodly history of his mother's death, a blessed woman and worthy of such a son. Her name was Monica, well known in God's Church, and numbered amongst the saints. This good matron provided especially, by her testament that she might not be forgotten at the altar of God, when the names of the faithful departed were in the sacrifice remembered. For that was common in all churches, as partly is, and yet shall be better declared anon, The which her worthy will, her son Augustine so alloweth, that he setteth it forth in the ninth of his confessions to her eternal memory, in these words. My mother (saith he) when the day of her passing hence was now at hand, much regarded not how her body might curiously be covered, or with costly spice is powdered: neither did she count upon any gorgeous tomb or sepulchre: these things she charged us not with all. But her whole & only desire was, that a memory might be kept for her, at thy holy altar good Lord. Note the whole History, and fear not to follow it. at which she miss no day to serve thee: where she knew the holy host was bestowed, by which the bond obligatory that was against us, was canceled. Mark good reader as we go by the way, what that is which in the blessed sacrifice of the altar is offered, how clear a confession this man and his mother do make of their faith and the churches belief, concerning the blessed host of our daily oblation: behold that women in those days knew by the ground of their constant faith, that which our superintendents in their incredulity now a days can not confess. Consider how careful all virtuous people were in the primitive Church, both learned and simple, as to be present at the altar in their life time, so after their death to be remembered at the same. Whose worthy endeavours as often as I consider (and often truly I do consider them) I can not but lament our contrary affection, which can neither abide the sacrifice, the host, nor the altar in our days, and therefore can look for no benefit thereby after the day of our death once come upon us, as our fore fathers both looked for, and out of doubt had. But leaving the peculiar consideration of such things to the good and well disposed, let us go forward in the father's paths, and see whether this so well learned a clerk counted this zeal of his old mother, blind devotion, as we brutes think of our father's holiness now a days. The cursed Cham hath many children in our days. For which matter we shall find, that first even as she desired, the sacrifice of the Mass was offered for her, not only for the accomplishment of her godly request, but because the Church of God did that office for all that was departed in Christ, as we read in sundry placies of this man's works, and as in the same book of confessions he thus declareth and testifieth: (I leave the Latin, because the treatise grows to greater length than I was ware of, at the beginning, if I corrupt the meaning or intent of the writer, let my adversaries take it for an advantage) thus he saith therefore. Neither did I weep in the time of the prayers, when the sacrifice of our price was offered for her: Cap. 13. lib. 9 & ultimo. not yet afterward when we were at our prayers likewise, the corpse standing at the grave side, etc. Whereby every reasonable man must needs acknowledge that both prayers and sacrifice was made for her, as her meaning and godly request was before her passage. she being thus therefore brought home with supplication and sacrifice solemnly, was not yet forgotten of her happy child. But afterward he thus very devoutly maketh intercession for her quiet rest: M Grindall look in your grammar what figure S. Augustin used he●●. Now I call upon thee, gracious Lord, for my dear mother's offences, give ear unto me for his sake that was the salve for our sins, and was hanged upon the cross: who sitteth on the right hand of God, and maketh intercession for us, I know she wrought mercifully, and forgave those that did offend her: and now good God pardon her of her offences, which she by any means after her baptism committed, forgive her merciful God, forgive her, I humbly for Christ's sake pray thee, and enter not into judgement with her, but let thy mercy pass thy justice, because thy words are true, and hast promised mercy to the merciful. And in the same chapter a little afterward, he thus both prayeth himself for her, and earnestly inviteth other men to do the same, in these words: Inspire my lord God, inspire thy servants my brethren, thy children and my masters, whom with will, word, and pen I serve, that as many as shall read these, may remember at thine altar thy hand maiden Monica. And her laite husband Patricius, through whose bodies, thou brought me into this life and world. Thus was that holy matron by her good child made partaker after her death, of the thing which she most desired in her life. And himself afterward in his own see of Hippo in afric, had sacrifice said for him at his departure, though the day of his death fell at the pitiful havoc, which the Vandals kept being Arians in those parties, commanding the christian Catholics to be buried with out service as I said before. This blessed Bishop departing out of this life in the besiege of his own City, had notwithstanding, oblation for his rest, as Possidonius writing his life, and present at his passage, doth testify. Augustinus, Possidonius in vita August. membris omnibus sui corporis incolumis, integro aspectu atque auditu, nobis astantibus & videntibus, ac cum eo pariter orantibus, obdormivit in pace cum patribus suis, enutritus in bona senecture: & nobis coram positis, pro eius commendanda corporis depositione sacrificium deo oblatum est, & sepultus est. Augustine (saith he) being sound in his limbs, neither his sight nor hearing failing him, I being then present and in his sight, & praying together with him, departed this world in peace unto his elders, being continued till a fare age. And so, we being present, the sacrifice for the commendation of his rest was offered unto God first, and strait upon that was he buried. Thus lo all these fat●e●s taught: thus they practised, thus they lived, and thus they died: none was saved then but in this faith, let no man look to be saved in any other now. 6 I have sufficiently already declared what Augustine meaneth by the sacrifice of the altar, the sacrifice of our price, the sacrifice of bread, and wine, and what so ever name he giveth it beside. He meaneth nothing else, but the sacrifice of thanks giving for the only propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, whereof the celebration of the sacrament is an effectual memorial, and lively remembrance. In Celebration of which sacrament although the superstitious error of that time allowed prayers for the dead generally, or special remembrance of any in the prayers, yet is it not the belief of S. Augustine, nor of any other in that time, that the sacrament was the natural body and blood of Christ, nor that the natural body of Christ was there sacrificed, as a propitiation of the sins, either of the living or the dead. Seeing therefore that he hath so plainly expounded, what he meaneth by the name of sacrifice, as I have showed in the beginning of this chapter: it is to much folly, upon these unproper, but yet in that time usual terms, to go about to build such blasphemous doctrine, as afterward g●ue to be maintained (perhaps by occasion of such unproper speech as then was used) of the sacrifice of the Mass, and propitiation both of the quick and the dead. But that I may consider these places particularly, whereof you make so great account: First where you will us to take our advantage of your translation, I say you have falsyfied Augustine's words and meaning in the latter end of the first sentence, to make fools believe that the private Mass was said in Augustine's days, as it is among you. First you call memoriam sui fieri ad altar which is that remembrance of her should be made at the altar: that a memory might be kept for her, as though she would have her son to be a chantry priest to sing for her, etc. Item you translate unde sciret dispensari victimam sanctam, where she knew the holy host was bestowed, as though she had meant nothing, but that the host was laid upon the altar where as you should have said, from whence she knoweth the holy sacrifice was dispensed or ministered, by which words it is manifest that the communion was daily received not of the priest alone, but of all them that were present. You are as bold as one of your wisdom may be with such a man, to will M. Grindall to look in his grammar for Augustins figures, but if I may be so bold with so profound a clerk as you are, I would desire you to look in the etymologies of your grammar, whether sui, be, for her, and unde where. And if you can not prove these significations, by that part of grammar which is called Etymology, that you would defend them by that part of cunning where in you are better learned, called Pseudologia: but to the matter of this testimony, we have in this first remembrance of her, in the next we have the sacrifice of our price offered for her. In deed this soundeth more like the matter you would have: if S. Augustine had not before in plain words expounded his meaning, which is nothing else, but that the communion was celebrated, in ministration of which there was special remembrance of her in the prayers, as there was of all dead in the saith a general memory. And if you ask me what figure S. Augustine used, though I could refer it to diverse figures, yet it may best be excused by Acyrologia, which is an unproper kind of speaking, to call that the sacrifice of our price, which was but a thanks giving for the sacrifice of our price, which Christ only offered once for all upon the altar of the cross. As Augustine himself when he speaketh properly will confess. The other two places prove nothing but prayer for the dead used by Augustine. But that you may see all this was but superstition or will worship in him: he himself in a manner confesseth as much in the same place, where he prayeth most earnestly lib. Con. 9 cap. 13. Et credo quod iam feceris quod rogo, sed voluntaria oris mei approba Domine. And I believe that thou hast done already that which I pray for, but Lord approve this voluntary offering of my mouth. His meaning is to allude to the free will offerings of the law, but in deed he declareth that he prayed not according to the rule appointed by God, but according to the corrupt motion of his own mind. As for the place of Possidonius proveth plainly, that it was the sacrifice of thanks giving that was offered for the commendation of the godly and quiet deposition or putting of, of his body, which he before describeth. In steed of which M. Allen translateth, for commendation of his rest as though he had been out of rest, & saith, that not withstanding his holy life and godly departure, yet even that day the city was taken, had oblation for his rest, But if the men of those days had been of M. Allens opinion concerning purgatory, they would not both have counted Augustine for a perfect man, and yet after his death to doubt of his rest. Finally, where he boasteth, that none were saved in those days, but in this faith, he followeth his own vain of lying, and not any proof of ancient writing. For although they were in that time infected with some errors, and that not so great as he chargeth them withal: yet was the faith of their salvation in the only foundation jesus Christ, and not in merits or Masses, pardons or pilgrimage, but in the only mercy of God. Tota spes mea (saith Augustine) non nisi magna valdè misericordia tua. Da quod jubes & iube quod vis lib. con. 10. cap. 29. Albina my hope is nothing else but thy exceeding great mercy. Give that thou commandest, & command what thou wilt. That we and all nations, received this usage of praying and sacrificing for the departed, at our first conversion to Christ's faith. And that this article was not only confirmed by miracle amongst the rest, but severally by signs and wounders approved by itself. And that the Church is grown to such beauty by the fruits of this faith. CAP. X. 1 MAny more examples of these matters might be brought out of S. Gregory, divers out of Damascene, enough out of what writer so ever you like best: such choice we have in so good a cause, whereof every man's works are full. But I will pass over the rest, that I may only report one history out of our own Church, in the pure spring whereof, the apostolic faith abundantly issued down from the principal pastors of God's Church, with great spread of religion, which sith that time hath beautified our country in all God's gifts with the best. And amongst many evident testimonies of this truth, with the practice thereof, both to be found in Gildas and in holy Beda, there is a strange and a very rare example, not only for the plain declaration of the usage of our Church in the first foundation of our faith, but for an open show by miracle in this lief, how God releaseth of his mercy, by the holy oblation at the altar, the pains of the departed in the world to come. It shall be comfortable to the Catholics, to consider this part of our belief to be confirmed by the miraculous working of God, as all other lightly be, in placies where the faith is first taught. And that our whole faith which our nation received of S. Augustine the monk, was so confirmed by the power of God, not only our own histories do declare, but S. Gregory himself affirmeth it, writing his letters to Augustine in this sense: Beda lib. 1. cap. 31. that he should not arrogate any such wondrous works to his own power or virtue: which then God wrought by him, not for his own holiness, but for the planting of Christ's faith in the nation where those signs were showed. Beda therefore, Lib. 4. hist. cap. 21. writeth this notable history of a miracle done not many years after our people was converted, in the beginning of his own days: that in a foughten field betwixt Egfride and Edeldred, two princes of our land, it fortuned that a young gentleman of Egfrides' army, should be so grievously wounded, that falling down both himself with out sense, and in all men's sights stark dead, he was let lie of the enemies, and his body sought with care to be buried of his friends. A brother of his, a good priest and Abbate, with diligent making search for his body, amongst many happened on one that was exceeding like him (as a man many easily be deceived in the alteration that straight falleth upon the soul's departure to the whole form and fashion of the body) and bestowed of his love, the duty of obsequies, with solemn memorials for the rest of him, whom he took to be his brother deceased, burying him in his own monastery, and causing Mass to be done daily for his pardon, and souls release. But so it fortuned, that his brother Huma (for so was he called) being not all out dead, with in four and twenty hours came reasonably to himself again: an● gathering with all some strength, rose up, washed himself, a●● made means to come to some friend or acquaintance, whe●● he might sallue his sores, and close his wounds again: But by lack of strength to make shift, and by misfortune, he fell into his enemy's hands: and thereby the Capitane examined of his estate, he denied himself to be of name or degree in his country. Yet by the likelihoods that they gathered of his comely demeanour, and gentleman like talk, which he could hardly dissemble, they mistrust (as it was in deed) that he was a man of arms, and more than a common soldier. Therefore in hope of good gain by his ransom, they thought good after he was full recovered, for fear of his escape to say irons upon him, and so to make sure work. But so God wrought, that no fetters could hold him: for every day once at a certain hour, the bands broke lose with out force, and the man made free. The gentleman marveled at the case himself, but his keepers and the captain were much more astonished thereat, and straightly examined him by what cunning or craft he could with such ease set himself at liberty: and bore him in hand, that he used characters or letters of some sorcery and wichcrafte, with the practice of unlawful arts. But he answered in sadness, that he was altogether unskilful in such things. Marry (que he) I have a brother in my country that is a priest, and I know certainly that he saith often Mass for my soul, supposing me to be departed and slain in battle. And if I were in an other life, I perceive my soul by his intercession should be so loosed out of pains, as my body is now from bonds: The captain perceiving so much, and belike in some awe of religion, seeing the work of God to be so strange, sold him to a Londoner: with whom the same things happened in his bonds losing every day. By which occasion he was licenced to go home to his friends, and procure his ranson, for charging him with divers sorts of surest bands, none could salfely hold him. And so upon promise of his return or payment of his appointed price, he went his ways, and afterward truly discharged his credit. Which done by friendship that he found in the same country, afterward returned to his own parties, & to his brother's house: to whom when he had uttered all the history of his strange fortune, both of his misery and miraculous relieving, he inquired diligently the whole circumstance, with the hour and time of his daily losing: and by conferring together, they found that his bonds broke lose especially, at the very just time of his celebration for his soul. At which times he confessed, that he was otherwise in his great adversities often released also, Thus hath that holy writer almost word for word, and at the end he addeth this: Multi haec a praefato viro audientes, accensi sunt in fide ac devotione pietatis, ad orandum, vel eleemosinas faciendas, vel ad offerendas Domino victimas sacrae oblationis, pro ereptione suorum qui de saeculo migraverant. Intellexerunt enim quod Sacrificium salutare, ad redemptionem valeret, & animae & corporis sempiternam. Hanc mihi historiam, etiam hi qui ab ipso viro in quo facta est audiere, narrarunt. unde eam, qui aliquando comperi, indubitanter historiae nostrae Ecclesiasticae inserendam credidi. Many hearing thus much of the party himself, were wonderfully inflamed with faith and zeal, to pray, to give alms, and to offer sacrifice of the holy oblation, for the delivery of their well-beloved friends departed out of this life. For they understood that the healthful sacrifice, was available for the redemption of both body and soul everlastingly. And this story, did they that heard it of the parties own mouth, report unto me. Where upon having so good proof, I dare be bold to writ it in my ecclesiastical history. And thus much saith Beda about eight hundred years ago, when our nation being but young in Christianity, was fed in the true belief, by sundry wondrous works of God. CAP. X. 1 THe examples out of Gregory or Damascene, you may spare for your friends, there is none of us, that maketh great account of them, and yet neither Gregory nor Damascene, were so gross in their error of prayer for the dead and purgatory, as you: but where you brag of such choice, that you can bring enough out of what writer so ever we like best: you should passing well provide for the credit of your cause, and the discredit of ours, if out of so great store, you would help us with some thing out of justinus Martyr, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, or any Authentical writer, which lived within one hundredth years after the Apostles age. But when you begin with chrysostom's burial, and yet can not prove that which you pretend, all men may well think, and they which have red the old writers know, you can not reach so high for all your proud promises. But you will do that, which shall be as good, you will show that we and all nations received these usages of praying and sacrificing for the departed, at our first conversion to the faith. you shall do a great piece of work, and such as no Papist yet, was ever able to do. You shall be a Cardinal if you can do it, yea you shall convert all the Protestants to the Catholic Church of Rome. Go too man, begin. Take the history of the Acts of the Apostles into your hands, in which mention is made of the conversion of many nations to Christ's faith, show that the usage of praying & sacrificing for the dead, was received of them or any of them. Come of quickly, or all the world will say you are but a prating merchant. But you will begin with the conversion of our nation. Go to take Gildas into your hand, which testifieth that the Gospel was preached in this land in the reign of Tiberius' the Emperor: prove unto us that Paul or Simon or Thaddeus or joseph or who so ever first preached the Gospel in this Island, taught prayers or sacrifices for the dead, Prove it I say, and the day is yours for ever, if you prove it not, as neither you nor the devil for you is able to do it: the world may see, your swelling brags to be nothing but blown bladders or bubbles, in which there is nothing but air, as your words are nothing but wind, yet are you not ashamed, to name Gildas, who, as about the first conversion of the britains to the faith he hath no word of any such matters, so where he complaineth of there ruin and decay, he accuseth the priests of his time for sieldome sacrificing, but of sacrificing for the dead he speaketh not, although the error of praying for the dead were received in other places and whether this country were free from it I am not able to say, nor you to prove, that it was infected with it. And therefore having nothing to show for six hundredth yeare● almost, in which this land was never void of Christians, you come in at last with the perversion of the Saxons, by Augustine that proud cruel and unlearned monk, of whose pride and cruelty our stories do testify at large: his ignorance and unskilfulness is bewrayed by himself, in his writings to Pope Gregory. I force little what miracles he wrought to confirm his errors, neither do I way worth a fly that long tale you tell, out of Beda, of him that had his chains fallen o● in Mass time. That credulous and superstitious age, had many such feigned miracles. 500 such tales are told in vitas patrum, serm. discipuli, legenda aurea, the festival etc. But make you no more account of Beda his grave authority then of those feigned fables? surely I make this account of Beda, that if he had reported the matter of his own knowledge, I would have credited the fact done, and yet tending to the maintenance of false doctrine I would never the sooner have been moved from the truth of God's word. But when he reported it only of hear say, and that not of the parties themselves that might have been witnesses, but of them that heard this one man tell it by himself, it carrieth small credit with it. I believe that such a tale was told to Beda, but what if they added some what to it that told him, and what if he that told them lied? if Beda had not been over light of credit himself, he should not have put it in writing, before he had perfect intelligence, not only of the party himself, but also of that Londiner and gentleman, and those that kept him in prison. But how so ever the matter wear true or false, it is no proof nor prejudice against the truth of God uttered in the holy scriptures. Let Augustine speak for us in his book ae unitate ecclesiae, against the Donatists, which boasted of miracles, as the Papists do, but Augustine will not allow them for sufficient proves with out the authority of the scriptures, non dicat verum est quia ego hoc dico, aut quia hoc dixit ille collega meus, aut illi collegae mei, aut illi episcopi vel clerici, vel laici nostri, aut ideo verum est quia illa & illa▪ mirabilia fecit Donatus vel Potius vel quilibet alius, aut quia homines ad memorias mortuorum nostrorum orant & exaudiuntur, aut quia illa & illa ibi contingunt, aut quia ille frater noster, aut illa soror nostra tale visum, vigilans vidit, vel tale visum dormiens somniavit etc. Sed utrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant, non nisi divinarum scripturarum canonicis libris oftendant &c, Let him not say it is therefore true, because I say it, or such a one my companion said it, or those my companions, or those our bishops, or clerks, or lay men, or it is therefore true because Donatus or Pontius or any other did these or those miracles, or because men pray at our dead men's memories and are hard, or because these or these things do happen there, or because this our brother or that our sister saw such a vision waking or dreamt such a vision sleeping, etc. but whether they hold the Church or not, let them show none otherwise but by the canonical books of the holy Scriptures. This place M. Allen if it might take place with you, might serve to cut of all controversies, not only of purgatory, but of the Church itself and what so ever is in question between us. But you are wise enough, you will never venture your cause upon that trial. 2 We must here stay a little, and ponder in our minds, how our forefathers and people of our own land were taught in this article, That faith is the true faith into which our nation was first converted from infidelity. when they were first delivered out of Satan's bondage, and converted to the fellowship of Christ's Church and let us nothing doubt, but that which our own Apostles both by word and work, by miracle and by martyrdom first proved unto us, is the very true and unfallible faith of our Christianity. For if that were not true which at our first conversion was preached unto us, than we received not the faith, but falsehood at their hands: then the histories do make a loud lie, in testifying we were turned to the Christian faith both at that time and by such men, than it were no conversion from heathen Idolatry to the worship of Christ, but it were a change from one superstition to an other: and this latter so much worse than the other, because under the name of Christ there were practise perpetual of execrable sacrilege, in instituting of a sacrifice to the defasing of our redemption, in adoring bore bread as the host of our salvation, in offering it up to God for the sins both of the quick and dead, in practice of unprofitable prayers for the souls deceased, with the like false worship of God in all points. Then their preaching was highly to God's dishonour, pernicious to the people, and damnable to themselves. Then have all that ever ran the race of that faith and doctrine, till this day, which they taught, perished with them: then are they found false witnesses, whom we have accounted as our undoubted, true and lawful pastors: then God hath purposely deceived us with feigned miracles full many, with numbers of vain visions, than all our labour is lost till this day. The holiness of so many good princes and priests is praised in vain, the blood of Martyrs shed in vain, the exercise of all sacraments in vain: and because all devotion consisted in our father's days in the earnest zeal of so false a religion, as they think this to be, than the more devotion the farther from Christ, the less religion, more near to salvation: then happy was he that was the worst, and cursed was he that was counted the best: then is our case most careful, then are we worse than all other nations, that never received the name of Christ: then are we worse than we were before our conversion, than (to be short) there is no religion, no Christ, no God, no hope of salvation. 2 I am content to stay with you, and ponder as much as is meet, the conversion of the saxons unto the faith of Christ. And first I say that you reason both falsely and foolishly, to prove that either all opinions were true, or else all false, that the saxons received at there first conversion. For though prayer for the dead, and other superstitious opinions then received, were false, yet doth it not follow, that all that then was taught them for Christianity was false. For although Augustine had been void of all true articles of the faith, yet the bishops and christian teachers of the British nation, in whose aid they required, and at last obtained, to the converting of the saxons, retained the foundation of faith jesus Christ, and the only sacrifice of his death. And this was the faith that was received even of the saxons, as appeareth by those homilies that yet remain in the Saxon tongue, appointed to be read unto the people for their instruction, and namely in that printed Saxone homylie, which was appointed to be read at Easter, where in is declared not only the faith of the Church at that time, concerning the sacrifice of Christ his death, but also that heresy of popish transubstantiation, and the real presence of Christ's body in the sacrament is pithily confuted. And therefore it is altogether untrue that you say (M. Allen) that they did institute a sacrifice to the defacing of our redemption, as you do: that they did adore the sacrament, as the natural body of Christ as you do: or counted it a propitiatory sacrifice for the quick and the dead as you do: although they used unprofitable prayers for the dead, and many other superstitions, Neither doth it follow, that all that taught or believed those errors, so long as they builded upon Christ the only foundation, have perished, or that all they taught was false, because some thing was untrue: or that God hath deceived us with feigned miracles, which Satan hath showed to set up the kingdom of Antichrist even in the temple of God, with all lying signs and wonders, 2. Thes. 2. To conclude no truth is false, no virtue is vice, no good thing is evil, because all was not true, all was not virtue, all was not good, that was received and practised among them. 3 All which things if they repugn to common sense and reason, and to the comfortable hope of our salvation, which we have received from God by Christ jesus, and the assured testimony of the spirit of God, that we be a part of his chosen Church, & sanctified in his holy name by the word of truth and life, which we by the ordinary ministry of man have received (signs and wonders confirming their calling and doctrine) than this religion which they planted first in our country, must needs be in all points both holy, true, and acceptable unto God. Then as by that religion our fathers were engraffed first into Christ's body mystical, which is the Church, in which till this day they have kept the high way to salvation, so who so ever forsaketh this, or any principal article or branch thereof, Note and take heed betíme. and so leaveth that Church into which we first entered at our conversion, he leaveth assuredly life and salvation, and without all doubt everlastingly perisheth. Amongst which points of doctrine, our adversaries can not deny, but the saying mass and offering for the dead, the alms and prayers for the departed, was taught with the first, and proved by miracles with the rest. The which either to deny were over much discredit of the antiquity, and plain impudency: or else to attribute them to the devils working, were open untolerable blasphemy. 3 There is nothing that you say in this part, or that you can say in this respect, to prove that the religion here received was in all points holy, true, and acceptable to God, because it was in some and those the chief, but it may be said by the nations of the Goths and Vandalles, which were first converted from heathenish idolatry, to the profession of the name of Christ, by the Arrian heretics, to defend that there religion was in all points holy, true, and acceptable to God, or by them that were converted by the Donatists, Novations, or any other heretics. For although the Arrians were blasphemous heretics, yet they taught many things truly and sound concerning the faith of christianity. And therefore no more than the religion of the Arrians, who first turned those nations was true in all points, though it were in many: no more I say was every article that was taught unto the Saxons, which were converted by superstitious Romanistes, in all points true, notwithstanding that many things and the principal were true: So much therefore as may be justified by the word of God of that doctrine, is holy, true, and acceptable to God, but that which is contrary to the doctrine of the holy Scriptures, is neither received from God, nor Christ, neither hath it any testimony of his spirit, by what presumptuous words, o● appearance of signs and wonders so ever it be uttered. Neither is it any greater offence for the English men, to renounce the error of praying for the dead, or abusing the communion to the similitude of a sacrifice, or any other superstition, then or at any time after received: than it was for the Goths or Vandalles, to forsake the heretical and blasphemous opinions of the Arrians, by whom they were first persuaded to reverence the name of Christ, or for any other that were turned by any heretics, to forsake their first errors, and give place to the truth after revealed unto them. And whereas you affirm, that we can not deny, but that Mass, offering, alms, and prayer for the dead, were taught with the first, and proved by miracle with the rest: we may be bold to deny, that they were at the first taught so grossly, as they be now maintained impudently. And as for miracles, I mean such as were prophesied, to be the efficacy of error in the kingdom of Antichrist, we will confess, that these and like errors had always great plenty to establish them, as they which had no authority out of the holy Scriptures to approve them. 4 Yea this doctrine hath brought the Church to this beautiful order in all degrees as we have seen. All the noble monuments, not only in our common wealth, but through Christ's Church do bear sufficient testimony of our first faith herein. This doctrine (as the whole world knoweth) founded all bishoprics, builded all Churches, raised all Oratories, instituted all Colleges, endued all Schools, maintained all hospitals, set forward all works of charity and religion, of what sort so ever they be. Take away the prayers and practice for the dead, either all those monuments must fall, If praying for the dead were taken away, there should no step of religion remain. or else they must stand against the first founders will and meaning. Look in the statutes of all noble foundations, and of all charitable works, ever sith the first day of our happy calling to Christ's faith, whether they do not expressly testify, that their work of alms and devotion, was for this one especial respect, to be prayed and sung for, as they call it, after their deaths. Look whether your Universities protest not this faith by many a solemn oath, both privately and openly. Look whether all preachers that ever took degree in the University before these years, All our superintendents are deeply & daily perjured. are not bound by the holy Evangelists, to pray for certain noble Princes and Prelates of this Realm, in every of their sermons at Paul's, or other places of name. And so often as these preachers do omit it, so often are they perjured: so often as they either eat or drink of their benefactors cost, so often bear they testimony of their own damnation. 4 This and almost all the rest to the end of the chapter, might be as well the expostulation of the heathen men with the Apostles, or them that first preached the faith of Christ. Were there not as goodly building of temples, colleges, and universities among the heathen as are among us at this day? but all they were builded and endowed by men of a contrary religion, doth it therefore follow, that their religion was good, which erected such noble monuments, both of their common wealth and of their religion? Although it is most false that Allen affirmeth, that this doctrine founded all byshopprickes, builded all Churches etc. but admit it were so, what argument were that to prove that his religion were true? Our stories testify, that at the first conversion of this land to Christianity, in the time of Lucius, that arch flamines of the Pagans, were converted to archbyshopprickes. And the pagan flamines, were converted to bishoprics, and so the temples of the Pagans were converted into the Churches of the Christians. Gregory also instructeth Augustine, how he should convert the temples of the Idolatrous Saxons unto the use of the Christian Churches. If these stories be true, then is it both false that M. Allen saith that his doctrine of Purgatory founded all bishoprics, Churches, etc. and also that all bishoprics, Churches, colleges, etc. must remain in the religion of them by whom they were first founded: he proceedeth further to charge all our superintendents of perjury, for not keeping their oath made in the university to pray for the dead. Let them that have made such oath answer for themselves, I am sure he lieth of many and of the most of them, for that oath was only in Oxeford for any thing that I have heard which university hath yielded few to that place as yet. But it is certain, that your popish Bishops of Queen Mary's time, almost every one and the chiefest, Bonner, Gardyner, Heth, Hopton, Therlebye, etc. were manifestly perjured, against that oath, which they took in K. Henry & K. Edward his days, to maintain the kings supremacy against the usurped power of the Pope. This all the world knoweth and therefore ye may be ashamed to accuse our superintendents of perjury, of whom I am sure you can name but a few that ever took the oath. 5 Answer me but one question I ask you: Whether the first authors of such benefits as you enjoy in the Church at this day, A hard question proposed to the Protestant. either of bishopric, or college, or any other spiritual lively hood, say your minds unfeignedly, whether they ever meant that such men, of such a religion, of such life, of such doctrine, should enjoy that alms which they especially ordained for other men, and for contrary purpose? say truth and shame the devil, thought they ever to make room in Colleges for your wives, meant they ever to maintain preaching against the Mass, against prayers for their own souls? when they purposely upon that ground began so godly a work? if they in deed never meant it, as I know they did not, and as your own consciencies bear witness with them, and against yourselves that they did not, how can you then for fear of God's high displeasure, against their own wills, usurp those commodities which they never meant to such as you be. A lass good men, they thought to make friends of wicked Mammon, and full dearly, with both lands and goods, have they procured enemies to their own souls. But if there be any sense in those good fathers and founders (as there is) and if they be in heaven, as their good deserving I trust hath brought them, then surely they accuse you most justly of wicked unjustice before the face of God, for deluding the people, for breaking their wills, for usurping their commodities, against their professed minds and meanings. Or if they be in hell (which God forfend, and yet you must needs so suppose, for raising the monuments of such superstition) than blot out their memory and names, that have not only in their life maintained horrible abusies, but also after their death have left such open steps of superstition, to all posterity. 5 The same question you may demand of the fathers of the primitive Church, and in deed the same question or the like was demanded of them, and it is not so hard to answer as you imagine. Many of these Churches and colleges, yea the most notable cathedral Churches in England, were builded for preachers of the Gospel and there wives to devil in. Our stories are plentiful in that point, that they were the first inhabiters of them and afterward, as Idolatry, and superstition prevailed, were with all violence and injury expelled out of them, and monks placed in their steed. If you be so skilful in antiquity as you make yourself, you can not be ignorant of this, which is testified by Ranulphus Castrensis, Mathaeus Westmonasteriensis the story of Peterburghe and many other. Now whether any meant to maintain preaching against Mass or prayers for their own souls, as we know not whether they did or not, so we count it not material. Such livings as are appointed by the prince and the law for maintenance of them that preach the Gospel, we may enjoy with a good conscience without regard of their meaning, that first builded the houses or possessed the lands. For we must not seek to learn our faith and religion out of their meanings and intentes, but out of the word of God. And whether the builders of such places, be saved or damned, it pertaineth not to us to judge, nor to inquire. Such things as were well done of them, we would commend if they were heathen men, but if any thing were evil in them, we may not allow it, though they were never so good. 6 Suppose I pray you, which yet I would be loath should come to proof or pass, but suppose for all that, that with the taking away of this old faith of praying and offering for the dead, all the works of the same faith which issued down from that fountain, might shrink with all, or return to the founders again, because there is no room to fulfil their wills, how many Churches and chapels, what Colleges or hospitals, would our new no faith bring forth? Would not every bishops wife build a Church think you, or found a College in such a necessity, jest their husbands should be driven to serve in a reformed french barn? 6 Now as touching your vain supposing, if all such lands as were given to maintain prayers for the dead, or other like purposes, either good or supposed to be good should revert to the heyers of their first founders, for not performing the intent of the founders, perhaps few monasteries, colleges, or hospitals, In Italy, Spain, France, or Flaunders, should enjoy one half penny worth of their lands, or revenues. They meant, not only to be prayed for, but to be prayed for, by men of honester conversation than the greatest part of those cloisterers are. They are too well known to the world, to be taken for that they be called, holy, religious, and chaste. But suppose as you said, that we had no manner of Churches to assemble in, though bishops wives be not able to build them, yet we doubt not but in the time of peace and tranquillity, under godly princes, we should have as many and as fair builded Churches as the religion of Christ hath need of. Have you not heard of the Churches builded in Orleans and Antwerp & other places by the professors of the Gospel. But if it were in time of persecution and tyranny, I doubt not, but all godly bishops, had rather serve in a french reformed barn, then in a popish gilded minster. And how so ever you jest like a scornful caytifie, of those holy assemblies of God's children in France, there barns are more like those caves and vaults under the earth that the old Christian bishops were content to serve in, before the time of Constantine, them your Idolatrous babylonical temples, are like those princely buildings, that by Constantine and other Christian princes were first set up for the public exercise of Christian religion. 7 One of these mock bishops complains very sore in a book of his, Super Aggaeum. that men be not now bend with such zeal and devotion to prefer God's honour, in maintenance of his Ministers, as they were in old time, and as Constantinus, with the like christian princes in the primitive Church, were. But the good man marked not whereupon this cold devotion ariseth: he considereth not, that this is the fructlesse effect of so idle a false faith, as his own lordship preacheth: he would not see that the maintenance of God's honour, both by lief, lands and goods, in the peculiar fruit of that charitable loving faith, which the Catholics do profess: he weighed not well, that the great grants of Constantinus, were made to Sylvester Bishop of Rome, and not to the married Bishop of Duresme. He remembered not, that the like holy works of the noble kings of our own country, were practised upon such as would profess the truth, and serve the altar, and not upon false pastors, that were destroyers of all altars. Such honourable portions were parted out for God's lot, and not taken from the world, to go to the worldly again. Think you any man were so minded, to take from his own wife and children, either lands or goods, to bestow on priests babbes or bedfellows? Not no God knoweth: it was separated from themselves to the sacrifice, to the priesthood, to the honour of God's Church and ministery. The which things by your own preaching (my lords) decayed, would you have the Prince or people's devotion towards you, as is was, and would be still, if you were like your predecessors, and served the altar as they did? I wisse if the old S. Cuthbert, Wilfride, and William, whom they compare in holiness to horsies (so good is their opinion of their holy auncieters) had been of the same religion that the occupiers of their rooms now be, all the Prelates in England might have put their rents in a halfpenny purse. Come in again, come in for Christ's sake, come in to the Church again, serve the altar, and then you be wort●● to live of the altar: follow our fathers, and you shall be loved as our fathers were, confess that religion which our own Apostles first taught, and we all have believed, and all the works of God's Church protest to be true, and then you shall be blessed of God, and honoured of men. 7 You are a privileged person as your own talk doth declare, and therefore you may prate what you list, if he be a mock bishop, which beside his excellent learning, is also a painful and diligent preacher of the Gospel, what are those unlearned Asses, and reckless ruffians of your sect, which have nothing of a bishop but a rotchet and a mitre, or because I will not charge you with the worst, what are they which if they have some more learning than the rest (of which number there are but few) yet they count it the lest part of their office, to preach and teach, which S. Paul counteth to be chief part of a Christian shepherd & overseer. But to leave the name & come to the matter, you mistake that godly man's complaint, if you think he meaneth of superfluous buildings of synagogues, whereof you speak, or the unnecessary enryching of Prelates, whereof you mean, when he speaketh of the necessary sustentations of a great number of Pastors, which through the ravening of your gluttonous Monks, be rob of their portions. And whereas you answer, it is the fruit of so idle a false faith, as his lordship preacheth, your mastership lieth. For that faith which he preacheth, is both a true and a working faith, which if it were as generally received, in this land, as it is truly preached by him and others, the ministers of God's word could lack no livings, as God be thanked they neither do nor can lack sufficient for necessity, among so many of high authority, nobility, and wealth, as do unfeignedly profess the Gospel, and daily bring forth the fruits of a true, lively, working, and only justifying faith. The Churches of France in time of greatest persecution, yet have always liberally sustained their Pastors, And as for the great grants, that Constantine made to Sylvester Bishop of Rome, of such as he made in deed, he made to married Bishops of Rome, as some of them were since Sylvester time, rather than unto Sylvester the conjuror, Hildebrand the hell hound, julius the warrior, or any that succeeded Boniface the third, which beside their abominable life, were all heretics and Antichrist's. And touching such benefits as were received at the hands of princes, and noble men of our country, if they were meant to be bestowed upon the professors of the truth, and such as serve the altar of God, they are now bestowed according to their founder's intent. For they that serve the altar of God, must needs pull down the altars of idols. And if any portions that were taken from the world, be gone to the worldly again, I mean the Abbeys and their lands, it is the just plague of God upon them, that under hypocrisy of forsaking the world, lived not like men of the world, but like devils of hell. And whereas you ask again, if any man would take from his own wife & children, to bestow upon priests wives and children, I have answered before, that the chief collegiat Churches in England, were first inhabited of married Priests, which taught sounder doctrine and lived a more chaste life, than the Epicureous Monks that succeeded them. I might ask of you M. Allen if they meant not to maintain Priests wives & their children, whether they meant rather to maintain Priests whores & their bastards, bishops brothels, and their minions. Sodom and Gomor of Monks & Friars, it was neither Cutberd, William, nor Wilfryde, weather they were holy or superstitious, but the providence of God, that appointed such portion as the Church now enjoyeth, & if the same by any means should be taken from them, yet God hath appointed that they which preach the Gospel, shall live of the Gospel. We are not so careful of worldly livelihood, as you (knowing your own disease) imagine that we should be, that we would come into your filthy synagogue, to win Cardinals hats, or Archbishops palls, some of us if they had sought worldly promotion, by abusing their learning & wits, to the maintenance of your horrible heresies, needed not to have come from you, to seek preferment among the Protestants, which you know is neither so great, nor so easy to come by as among the Papists. 8 But let them on think on these matters themselves. I will turn again to my purpose, although I can not go far from my matter, so long as I am in the beholding of that faith which our first preachers brought unto us at our first conversion, or in any step of the antiquity: which we well perceive to be the fruit only of that doctrine which we have declared, and an evident testimony of so undoubted a truth. I think there is no way so certain for the contentation of a man's self, in this time of doubting and diversity in doctrine, as in all matters to have an eye towards the faith which we received, when we were first converted. And for that point, I would wish that S. Bedes history were familiar unto all men that hath understanding of the Latin tongue, and to all other if it were possible: for there shall they plainly see, the first beginning, the increase, the continuance, the practice, the works proceeding out of the catholic faith: fear not that is the truth, for that was the first, and that was grounded by God's word, and openly confirmed by miracle. And that point must be considered not only for our own country, but for all others that be, or hath been Christianed. For into the self same faith were they first engraffed also: as by the peculiar practising of every good man towards his friend and lover, I have already declared, and now for the general usage of God's Church the reader shall at large perceive, that nothing may want to our cause, whereby any truth or light may be had. 8 The conclusion of your chapter, is a recourse to the beginning, you think it is the surest way, to look to that faith in all points, which this land first received. If men should follow your counsel, as in some things they should follow your faith which you now teach, so in many points & namely in that which you count the chief, (the real presence of the natural body of Christ) they should go as far from that you teach, now, as you would have them come near some things that were received them. And whereas you wish that Bedes history, for that purpose were made familiar, and some of you in deed have taken pains to translate it into English, they that list not to be deceived but to see into what faith all nations were converted, that were turned by the Apostles, they were better to consider the word of God and the history of the acts of the Apostles, which if you durst abide the trial thereof, you would exhort men to read it, at lest wise that understand Latin. And if you were as zealous to set forth the glory of God as you are earnest to maintain your own traditions, one or other of you which have so long found fault with our translations of the scripture, would have taken, pains to translate them truly yourselves, as well as to translate Bedes book, or else to writ such babbles, as you do M. Allen and all the pack of you, but all in vain, to shadow the same, whose right should easily discuss all clouds of dark doctrine and the more it is impugned, the more bright shall it show, and the more it is compared with darkness the more glorious it shall appear. That in every ordre or usage of celebration of the blessed sacrament and Sacrifice, through out the Christian world, since Christ's time, there hath been a solemn supplication for the souls departed. CAP. XI. 1 THerefore let us see how the Church our mother, of her piety useth general supplication in all service, and solemn administration of the blessed sacrament, even for those whose friends have forgotten them: whose pains and travel worldly men remember not: whose obscure condition of life or poverty, would not suffer them to procure prayers, by their known deeds of charity or alms. Those men I say, that do lack singular patronage of their friends, those hath she remembered in the rites of celebration, used in all countries, and in every age sithence the Apostles days. Which orders of divine service, as they have been divers in form of words, so they perfectly and wholly agreed in the substance of the sacrifice, in praying and offering for the dead, and supplication to saints, as thou shalt strait ways by their used ordre of words perceive. And as we go forward herein, ever let us bear this rule in mind. Quòd legem credendi, lex statuit supplicandi, in that sense speaketh S. Augustine often against heretics: the order of the Church's prayer, So saith S. Augustine often against the Pelagians. is ever a plain prescription for all the faithful what to believe. And the motherly affection that the Church beareth towards all her children departed, the said doctor thus expresseth: De cura pro mort. Non sunt praetermittendae supplicationes pro spiritibus mortuorum, quas faciendas pro omnibus in Christiana & Catholica societate defunctis, etiam tacitis nominibus quorumcumque, sub generali commemoratione suscepit ecclesia: ut quibus ad ista desunt parents, aut filij, aut quicunque cognati, vel amici, ab una eyes exhibeantur pia matro communi. That is to say in our tongue. Prayer must not be omitted for the souls departed, which the Church hath customably taken in hand for all men passed in the Christian Catholic society, by the way of a general commemoration, their names not particularly expressed: that such things may be provided by our common kind mother, to all those which do lack parents, children, kinsfolk or friends, for the due provision of such necessary duties. By this holy man's words we may see the difference betwixt our own tender natural mother, and the cursed cruel step dame. The one followeth her children with love and affection into the next world, with full sorrowful sighs, many devout prayers, and all holy works: which she useth to their needful help: the other being but an unnatural steppemother, and all the children of that adoulterous seed, hath them no longer in mind than they be in sight: whether they sink or swim she maketh no account: she hath no blessing of her own, she hindereth the mercy of other. CAP. XI. 1 THe arguments of your chapters be like the gates of Lyndum which being but a very little city, had exceeding great gates, in so much that Diogenes willed them to shut them up, for fear lest their city went out of them. Even so your titles are marvelous large, but the matter of your treatise, is wonderful straight. In the last chapter, we should have had prayer and sacrifice for the dead, with the conversion of all nations, but a lack we could not obtain so much, as the same altogether in one poor nation of the Saxons, and them (as some think) not so much converted from Gentility to Christ, as perverted from pure Christianity to superstition. Now shall we have every order of celebration, sense Christ's time, with solemn supplication for the souls departed, but our probation shall not begin until three or four hundredth years after Christ's time, saving that for a preamble, we shall have a couple of players come upon the stage, the one to counterfeit Clemens the ancient, the other to bear the name of Dionysius the Areopagite. But such disguised doctors, have been already to often shifted out of their players garments, and showed to the world in their own apparel, that any which hath wit should not be now deceived by them. And as concerning the diverse forms of Liturgies, which you say do perfectly and wholly agreed with your mass, as they be corrupt, and falsely bear the name of them to whom they be inscribed, so notwithstanding, being of some antiquity, they differ almost as much from your mass, as your mass differeth from our form of celebration of the communion. But to follow you at the heels, as far as you dare go: I will agreed with S. Augustins rule, that the law of believing, should make a law of praying, but faith if it be true, hath no other ground but the word of God, therefore prayer if it proceed of true faith, hath no other rule to frame it by, but the word of God. And though Augustine prove against the Pelagians, which allowed the prayer of the Church, that the Church would not so pray, except she did so believe, yet it followeth not, neither doth he mean to defend, that what so ever the visible Church receiveth is true, if it be not agreeable to the word of God, and therefore all other persuasions set a side, he provoketh only to the scripture, to try the faith and doctrine of the Church. Which rule if he had as diligently followed, in examining the common error of his time, of prayer for the dead at that time, as he did in beating down the schism of the Donatists, or the heresy of the Pelagians, he would not so blindly have defended, that which by holy Scripture he was not able to maintain, as he doth in that book de cura pro mortuis agenda and else where. And where as you compare our Church to a step dame, and your synagogue to a natural mother, we may more justly wring back that comparison upon your noses. For our Church herein approveth herself to be a natural mother, that she neither keepeth back from her true children that heavenly inheritance, which their father hath appointed them, nor dissembleth the eternal abdication of them that be obstinate and rebellious. But your malignant church, showeth herself to be a cursed step dame, both in feeding the wicked with a vain hope of release of pains after this life, and in tormenting the well disposed with a false fear of pains which God hath released, to all them that truly turn unto him. So her terror tormenteth the virtuous, deceiveth the wicked, her hope flattereth the ungodly and disquieteth the well affected. The Church of God sendeth her children into the everlasting blessing of their father in heaven, the Church of Rome sendeth her bastards out of the blessing of God, not into the warm son, but into hot burning cools of purgatory to be thence delivered at leisure, as she promiseth, but never to come out of hell fire as they shall find. 2 But let us view all the orders, that we find extant or used through the Christian world, for the celebration of the blessed Sacrament and sacrifice, which now commonly in our vulgar speech we call the Mass, and see whether as Augustine said, there hath not been in all ages an especial supplication of the priest and people, for the dead as well as for the lief. First S. Clement, the Apostles own scholar, reporteth how they prescribed this solemn prayer in their holy ministry for the departed: Constitut. l. 8. cap. 47. Pro quiescentibus in Christo, fratres nostri rogemus. etc. Let us pray (saith the deacon) brethren, for all tho●e that rest in peace, that our merciful Lord, that hath taken their souls into his hand, would forgive them all their offences, whether they were willingly or negligently committed: and so having compassion upon them, would bring them to the land of the holy ones, and happy rest with Abraham, Isaac and jacob: and all other that pleased him from the beginning. where there is neither sighing, sorrow, nor sadness. And a little after in the same holy action, the Bishop prayeth himself, in this form. O Lord look down upon this thy servant, whom thou hast received into an other life: and pitifully pardon him if either willingly or unweetingly he hath offended. Let him be guarded by peaceable Angels, and brought to the patriarchs, Prophets, and Apostles, and the rest of all them that have pleased thee sith the world began. Thus reporteth Clement, being one of the Apostles company, and continually present in the celebration of their mysteries. 2 S. Hieronyme in his catalogue of Ecclesiastical writers, rehearseth all the books that either were known to be written by Clemens, or said to be his, and were not. First a profitable epistle to the Corinthians, being like in stile to the Epistle to the hebrews. Also under his name went a second Epistle, which was rejected of the ancients, like wise the disputation of Peter and Appione written in a large treatise, which Eusebius in the third of his Ecclesiastical story reproveth. This is all that S. Hieronyme could find concerning his writings. Who then hath raised from hell these other Decretal epistles and constitutions, that M. Allen and his companions would flap us in the mouth with all, being nothing else but impudent lies and foul forgeryes. 3 Again, Eccles. hierarch. c. 17. Dionysius Ariopagita of whom mention is made in the Acts (so ancient be the records of our faith) hath not only left in writing what he thought in this matter, which had been enough, but also what the Church apostolic in that spring of religion and pure devotion, taught and ordained to be used, and that by the Apostles prescription: whom he there tormeth the heavenly gides and captains of truth. For in the last chapter of his book, titled of the Ecclesiastical sovereignty, he telleth in order, how first the body is placed before the holy altar, how the solemn mysteries with heavenly psalms and sonnets be song and said over the corpse, how the holy Bishop giveth thanks to God, maketh comfortable exhortation to the assembly, to continued in assured hope of the resurrection: how he anointeth the body with holy oil, and last of all maketh prayers for him, and so committeth him to God. The which whole ordre of the sacrifice, ceremonies, and mystical prayers, exercised as well in burials, as at other times in the reverent mysteries, this author would not fully set out in writing, for their sakes that could not for the weakness of faith attain to the worthy holiness of so high matters, as he himself professeth, in these words: Praecationes quae in misterijs adhibentur nefass est scripto interpretari, & misticam eorum intelligentiam aut vim, quae in eyes, deo authore, efficacitatem habent, ex abdito in publicum efferre: sed quemadmodum a maioribus nostris traditum accepimus &c: The prayers which be used in the mysteries, may not in any wyes be set out to the world in writing, neither may the singular efficacy and grace of them be made common to all men: but even as we have received by the hands of our elders. And as long as this order was religiously kept in God's church, the solemn secrets of the blessed sacraments, were not so contemptible as our news open communion hath of late made them, where there is nothing so holy but it may abide the sight and handling, of who so ever is the worst. The holy and heavenly mysteries of Christ his spouse, were not then profaned by the presumptuous babbling of every idle head: Then were not the sovereign weighty matters handled in alehouses, but used at the holy altars. Then the idle, contentious, ungodly, and unprofitable quirks and questions, had no other solution but sharp discipline, and worthy correction: then were not the Gides of God's people controwled by every restless fellow, that could crack of God's word: but it was enough for a faithful man's contentation to say with Basil the great: Dominus ita docuit, In homil. contra Sabellian. Athan: ad Epitectum. apostoli predicaverunt, patres obseruaverunt, confirmaverunt martyrs, sufficiat dicere ita doctus sum. Our Lord taught so, the Apostles so preached, our fathers observed the same, the holy martyrs have sealed it, It is sufficient for me to say: so was I taught. O Lord, that this simple sincere fidelity might once take place again in our days, for the comfort of the poor faithful flock, that are now so burdened with questions of infidelity, that the silly simples souls can not tell how to turn themselves, nor find means to keep their faith inviolated, in such a multitude of misbelievers. Which I surely hope the earnest and pitiful prayers of so many good men that do bewail this misery, shall at length after due punishment of our ●innes obtain at God's gracious hands. But what saifte do the adversaries here make, with this evident testimony of this so ancient a writer? marry sir they endeavour with all their might, to rob this excellent ancient & divine writer of all his works, which have borne the title of his name ever sith they were written: Ita Suidas testatur. which challenge their own author by that grave stile that no other man, as the skilful in that language do testify, could ever lightly attain unto: which so savour of the antiquity, and the apostolic spirit, that thou would deem them to be indicted by some of the continual hearers of Christ jesus. But it were vain to stand in contention for this matter, for we should never have end, if we should be put to prove that every man made the books which be extant in his name: it were to much miscredit of antiquity, and uncertainty of all things. Although this man's works have been both named, Origen. Athan Damascen. Nicenum. 2. and certain sentences alleged out of them, by most ancient doctors and councils. With whom, the adversaries if they list be busy, shall wrestle, for I will seek out as my purpose was, whether in other times and usages of celebration, this kind memorial of the dead, hath not been kept. 3 If Dionysius the Aeropagite, had written any thing, or any Dionysius had written any books entitled de ecclesiastica Hierarchia before S. jeronyms' time, or in his time, he would not have left him out in his catalogue of Ecclesiastical writers, which he continueth from the passion of Christ unto the 14. year of Theodosius the Emperor, or if any such writer, or writing had been known in the Church two hundredth years after, Gennadius which addeth, if any were omitted by jeronym, and continueth his catalogue unto the reign of Zeno or Anastasius, in which time he lived, he would not have passed him in so deep silence. yea the man himself, even in the words that M. Allen rehearseth, plainly declareth, that he was not that Areopagite converted by S. Paul, for than he would not have said. Quemadmodum a maioribus nostris traditum accepimus, as we have received it of our ancestors. But as we have received of the Apostles themselves, of whom Dionysius himself was turned to the faith. As for Suidas is to late a witness, to know that jeronym and Gennadius and before them Eusebius knew not. But M. Allen thinketh, he hath made a witty defence for these books, to be written by Dionysius the Areopagite, when he saith we should never have end, if we should be put to prove, that every man, made these books, that be extant in his name. But what if we should receive all books to be authentical, that bear the name of some worthy person, should we not think you have many goodly treatises in the name not only of ancient doctors, but even of the Apostles themselves? But Origen and Athanasius both name this Dionysius and allege sentences out of him, Show that M. Allen and you have won the field, for Dionysius credit except it be out of such origen's and Athanasiusses as this Dionysius is or as Damascene and the second Nycene council allege, to whom what so ever could be counterfected to serve their purpose, was welcome and well received. Epist. 9 li. 1. 4 S. Cyprian shall not be called to record for the Church of afric or Carthage, because we heard his judgement before: who plainly commanding the priests under his jurisdiction not to celebrated for certain notorious offenders, giveth us to wit, that of right and custom it belonged in his province to others that passed hence in obedience and piety. The which was continued in that part of the world till Augustine's time, being about C C. years after him. Thus briefly he telleth you the practice of his Church. In praecibus sacerdotis quae domino deo ad eius altar funduntur, De cura pro mortuis. & alibi saepe. locum suum habet etiam commendatio animarum. In the prayers of the priest, which are made to our Lord God at his altar the commendation of the departed hath a place. 4 S. Cyprian should be called to record, if you could tell what to make him say. He plainly commanded the Priests under his jurisdiction not to celebrated for certain notorious offenders. He writeth to the Elders, Deacons, and people of Furnitanes. It were hard for you to prove, that all they to whom he did writ were under his jurisdiction. But I have answered before, that neither prayer nor sacrifice for the dead, can be proved out of that place, but thanks giving for the departing, and sleeping in peace of the godly, & prayer for the living to make the like godly end. As for that which was done in Augustine's time, doth not prove what was done 200. years before him. 5 Now for the Greek churches and the east, S. Chrysostome and Basil in their Massies (for so now the word Lyturgia is used of all the divine writers, and so Erasmus translateth it, and so it must needs be taken) bear sufficient witness of the apostolic tradition in this point. For in S. chrysostom's service thus the prayer is made for the dead: Lyturgia Chrysosto. Remember good Lord our spiritual father and all the brotherhood in Christ, and all those that are departed hence in faith, our fathers and our brethren etc. And again in the same Mass afterward, thus he prayeth: Remember all those, good Lord, which have taken their sleep in the hope of resurrection, and life everlasting: 'Cause them to take rest, where the light of thy countenance is showed. Lyturgia Basilia. In S. Basilles Mass which the Syrians use, there is also prayers for the departed: in which the minister desireth God to remember all them which be passed out of this world: and that he would refresh them in his holy tabernacle, safely lead them through the horrible and fearful dwellings, & place them in quiet and joyful abiding: that he would deliver them from the land of darkness, trouble, and sorrow: that he enter not into judgement with them, finally that he would mercifully remit and pardon, what so ever they committed through the vesture of the flesh, that was worthy punishment. This prayer was pithy, and toucheth the placies of punishment and purgation in the next life. 5 Now come in the Liturgies under the name of Chrysostome and Basill, which M. Allen will needs translate masses, and who can let him, seeing he saith the word is so used of all divine writers, and Erasmus himself translateth it so. This man is very general, always, all men, all divines etc. But why is Erasmus brought in? who as he translateth Lyturgia for Mass, so he judgeth that Chrysostome and Basill were not authors of those Liturgies, but some later men. But be it that Chrysostome and Basill did writ these Liturgies the oldest fathers that can be given them, I would know, what Liturgies they had in those Churches, before Chrysostome and Basill devised those forms that are said to be theirs. And why Chrysostome, Basill, Gregory, or any other that prescribed new forms of service, were not content with the old forms, that were used in their Churches before their days. undoubtedly because they were to simple for their curiosity, to sincere for their superstition, savouring of the ancient truth, not favouring their lately received errors. They had in deed in elder time as appeareth by Ephiphanius the name of oblation, but it was for the patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, and martyrs, which plainly showeth, that it was but an offering of thanks giving, as Cyprian doth declare, that they offered sacrifice for Laurentius and Ignatius martyrs, when they did celebrated the yearly days in commemoration of their suffering Lib. 4. epist. 5. Of which ceremonies and form of speaking, as the error perhaps took strength, so the authors of these Liturgies thought to confirm it by public authority, which was before but a blind error with out a head. 6 So there is extant an other order of divine service and Celebration of the communion, universalis Canon. called the general Canon, used in Aethyopia: which lately with the rest was set forth in Latin: in that so general an usage, there is supplication made to God for the souls also. Remember Lord (saith the minister) all those which are a sleep, and rest in the faith of Christ, place their souls, we besich thee, in the bosom of our father's Abraham, Lyturgia Armeniorun. Isaac, and jacob. So likewise in the service of the Armenians, consonant for the most part to the Greek usage, after supplication in the time of the holy oblation for the living, strait way prayers be devoutly made for the dead. First the deacon saith. Rogate dominum pro animabus quae requiescunt in pace, in primis episcoporum hic quiescentium. That is to say: pray unto our Lord for the souls which rest in peace, namely and before all other, for the bishops resting in this place. And then he prayeth thus: Remember Lord and have mercy, and show thy favourable grace to all the souls deceased, pacify and illuminate them, adjoin them to the company of holy saints in heaven, and make them worthy of thy love. 6 For the Liturgies of the Aethiopians and the Armenians, as they are with the other before rehearsed, a great deal more modest than your masses, so are they not of such antiquity that they can prescribe by continual claim, up to the Apostles time, nor with in a hundredth years and more of their time, they savour plainly as you confess of the Armenians, the usage of the Greek Church, which follow these Liturgies which beareth name of Chrysostome and Basill. 7 But S. Ambrose in his preparatory prayer towards the holy oblation, In prima prece praeparatoria ad missam. giveth us an excellent token of his churches faith, and a singular example to follow in the time of the dreadful mysteries, when we remember our friends departed: thus he saith. Rogamus te sancte pater, pro spiritibus fidelium defunctorum, ut sit illis salus aeterna ac perpetua sanitas, gaudium & refrigerium sempiternum, hoc magnum pietatis sacramentum▪ A notable solemn prayer of S. Ambro●e for the souls departed. domine Deus meus sit illis hody magnum & plenum gaudium de te pane vivo & vero qui de coelo descendisti, & das vitam mundo: de carne sancta & benedicta, agni videlicet immaculati, qui tollis peccatum mundi: & potare de font pietatis tuae, qui per lanceam militis de later emanavit crucifixi Christi, domini nostri, ut consolati exultent in laud & gloria tua sancta. This in English: we beseech the most holy father for the souls of all faithful departed, that this high and great sacrament of piety, may be unto them health and salfty for ever, joy, release, and perpetual refreshing: O my Lord God give them this day great and perfect comfort of thee, which art the bread that came down from heaven, and givest life to the world. Let them take joy of thy holy and blessed flesh, that is to say of the lamb that taketh away the sins of the world. give them to drink of the springe of thy piety, which by the prick of the soldiers spear, did abundantly issue out of the side of our Saviour Christ and Lord crucified, that they being so comforted, may rejoice in thy laud and glory everlastingly. To be brieefe all the Christian world agreeing, as Isiodorus saith, upon one way for the celebration of divine mysteries, De Ecclesi. officijs lib. 1. Cap. 15. maketh intercession for the faithful departed, that by the blessed sacrifice, they may obtain pardon and remission of their sins. 7 It is a world to see that you have nothing in a manner but forged evidence, to prove the antiquity of prayer for the dead, in public service of the Church. Who is so ignorant in antiquity, but he that will needs be obstinate, that knoweth not those preparatories to that mass, to be none of S. Ambrose his doings. Otherwise it were not hard to prove, that by the name of sacrifice, he meaneth thanks giving for the sacrifice of Christ, as the manner of that unproper speech was to term the holy sacrament, which is but the seal of our salvation and not the matter thereof itself. To be brief what so ever Isidorus saith, if all the world agreed, that intercession and sacrifice should be offered for the dead, seeing it disagreeth from the word of God, and the practice of the primitive Church so long as it followed the rule of God's word, it is no whit to be regarded. 8 For I assure the good reader, that all realms which now by God's grace are in true faith, and their Christianity continuing, or else before have been, and now by schism do forsake the same, that all those nations as they received one faith, so in substance they have ever agreed uniformly in order of service, which they received at their first conversion from the way of gentility, by the good provision of such, as wrought under God in their happy turn to the Christian faith, and religion. The same men that brought in the faith of jesus, with all brought in this way of worshipping Christ in the same faith, take away then this order of worship, and solemn supplication which they planted, thou must needs overthrow the faith which they taught also. This I say was ever found, in the celebration of the fearful mystery of Christ's body and blood, besides the oblation of that holy host for the quick and dead both namely for certain, and generally for all departed in Christ, a solemn prayer and supplication. Which no doubt Christ instituted at his last supper, which the holy Ghost afterward secretly suggested to the Apostles, which they again faithfully delivered to the nations converted by their preaching, and to diverse of their own disciples: by whom the same was derived down to our days, taught in all nations, and carefully practised of all people. Whereof we have worthy witnesses for all countries almost. For so the godly doctors Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine, both taught and worshipped in Africa, the same doth Hierom and Damascene in Syria, Origen and Athanasius in Egypte. Denyse the ancient, and Bernarde in France, Chrysostome in Thrase, Basill and his brethren in Cappadocia, Ambrose and Gregory the great in Italy, Augustine our apostle and Bede in our country of England: with the rest of all nations baptised, whom I named before, and might do yet a number: what should I say a numbered? all that ever were counted Catholics since the beginning, were of the same sense in that cause. And to name the residue where these do not serve, it were lost labour. For whom they can not move, I can not tell what may persuade him in any matter. Or if he dare not bestow his credit on these men's doings, whom may he salfely trust? If the communion and faithful fellowship, of so many godly and gracious men so uniformly consenting both in the teaching and practising of this matter, can not sattell and quiet a man's conscience, who can appease his disquieted unsteadfast mind and cogitation? If in the construing of God's word and scriptures, so many of such grave judgement, of so approved wisdom, of so passing learning, of such earnest study in trial of the truth, of so virtuous a life, of so heavenly a gift and grace in the expounding of God's word, may not be salfely followed in this our search, whom should we follow, or to whom should the simple addict themselves, in so great a turmoil of learned men: one sort craking so fast of scripture, and the other sort, when the matter comes to trial, alleging so many, with so ancient and grave testimony for the true meaning of the same? to which I say, is it wisdom to give consent and credit? if not to such as faithfully both follow and recite the scripture with the agreement of the world for the true sense thereof. Lib. 2. cap. 3. Contra epistolam Parmeniani. S. Augustine writing against Parmenianus the Donatist, much woundereth in that clear light of truth and the Church's doctrine, the heretics could be blind, or not see the evidence of that, which all the world but themselves saw. And in many places he reckoneth the most horrible punishment in the world, to be the cecity and blindness which God striketh the stubborn man's heart with all, in forsaking the fellowship of the Church's children. But he that considereth the process of our cause, may a thousand times more marvel and fear God's heavy judgement, in the blinding of the disobedient men's hearts and senses for sin. If they themselves were of their consciences examined, what else they would wish for the trial of any doubt, I am sure they could name no one point, nor any means in the world, which our cause would not suffer and admit. For by what way so ever, any truth in God's Church was severally in the ancient times avouched against the adversary heretic, I am sure we have the same with the advantage. And for this last point of prayers in the Masses of all nations, it is so evident, that no man can gain say it: and so generally practised, that the usage of praying could in no matter ever so clearly set out the certainty of our belief, as in this. 8 If you will take M. Allens assurance in so weighty a matter, that useth so commonly to lie, in every trifling matter, you are worthy to be deceived. And that you may see I do him no wrong, see I pray you how shamefully he lieth in this matter, whereof he maketh such impudent assurance. He saith the same men which brought in the faith, brought in the same order of service, and planted the same supplication, wherein they have uniformly continued, &c: take away the same order, and overthrow the faith which they taught. But who doth not know, that Chrysostom, Basill, Ambrose, Gregory, which he nameth to be the first authors of those orders of service & forms of supplication, which before he commended, were not the first, that brought in the faith into Cappadocia, Thracia, or Italy. But the Apostles themselves, and that those Churches continued more than 300. years with other forms of public prayers, and celebration of the sacraments before these men were borne. And where he saith there was ever found in the celebration of the sacrament, beside oblation of the host for the quick and the dead, both particularly and generally, a solemn prayer for all departed in Christ: You must take it, as the rest of his assertions, which be ever more general than their probations. But to reprove his vanity, the order of prayers and administration of the holy mysteries, described by justinus Martyr in his second Apology, and of Tertullian also in his Apologetico do sufficiently declare, what was the usage of the Christians in those purer times. And although there be not set forth unto them, what form of words they used in their liturgy, yet is it expressed for whom and what they prayed. Oramus etiam (saith Tertullian) pro Imperatoribus, pro ministris eorum, & potestatibus saeculi, pro rerum quiet, pro mora finis, We pray also for the Emperors, for their ministers and the powers of this world, for the quiet state of things, for stay of the end. Likewise he showeth, to whom they made their prayers, and what was the chiefest sacrifice that they did offer. Haec ab alio orare non possum, quam à quo sciam me consecuturum, quoniam & ipse est qui solus praestat, & ego sum cui impetrare debetur famulus eius, qui eum solum obseruo, qui ei offero opimam & maiorem hostiam, quam ipse mandavit, orationem de carne pudica, de anima innocent, de spiritu sancto profatam. These things I can not require of any other, but of him of whom I know I shall obtain. For it is he alone, which granteth, and I am he which should obtain, being his servant, which worship him only, which offer unto him that principal and great sacrifice, which he himself commanded, namely prayer proceeding out of a chaste body, out of a harmless soul, and from the holy spirit, This he speaketh comparing the prayers and sacrifice of the Christians, with the prayers and sacrifices of the Gentiles. But that I may return to M. Allen which referreth the institution of prayer, and sacrifice for the dead to Christ, at his last supper, to the secret suggestion of the holy Ghost, to the faithful delivery of the Apostles, and the constant continuance of all nations. Of whom will he be a feared to lie, when he fathereth such a blasphemy, upon the Apostles, upon the holy Ghost, and upon Christ himself? But let us consider your Sorites. Christ you say no doubt, did institute it: where is the warrant of this undoubted institution? you answer secret suggestion of the holy Ghost, how come we to the knowledge of this secret suggestion? By tradition of the Apostles: who is witness that this is the tradition of the Apostles? Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine, jeronym, and a great many more. But if it be lawful for me once to pose the Papists, as you do often the Protestants, I would learn why the Lord would not have this doubtless institution, and as you take it, the most necessary use of the sacrament, plainly, or at lest wise obscurely set fo●th by Matthew, Mark, Luke or Paul, which all have set forth the story of the action of Christ, the institution of the sacrament, and the end or use of the same. If it were not meet at all to be put in writing, why was it disclosed by Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine, etc. If it were meet to be put in writing, why were not those chosen Scribes Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, worthy of all credit, rather appointed for it, than Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine and such as you name? But against this counterfeit institution, secret suggestion, and feigned tradition, S. Paul crye●h with open mouth to the Corinthians. 1. Cor. 11. That which I delivered unto unto you, I received of the Lord, that the Lord jesus the same night, etc. In which words he declareth without colour or coverture, what was the true institution of Christ, of what witness he received it, with what fidelity he delivered it, what the sacrament is, and what is the right use of it, to condemn all manner of abuses what so ever may rise either to corrupt this only true substance, and only right order of ministration, or to pervert this only right use and proper end thereof. I know the Papists will fly to those words of the Apostle, the rest I will set in order when I come, but that is so manifest to be spoken of matters of external comeliness, and not of doctrine of the sacrament, as prayers and sacrifices, that no man which understandeth what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉, doth signify, can doubt or make any question of it. Now touching the credit and worthiness of these, whom he so highly extolleth, as I would not go about to diminish it, if they were to be compared with us, so when they are opposed against the manifest word of God and the credit of the holy Apostles, the instruments of the holy Ghost, there is no cause that we should be carried away with them. But the controversy is not (as M. Allen saith) of the authority of the scriptures in this matter, but of the true meaning of them, which it is more like, that they being such men, than we so far inferior to them, should know, I answer, they themselves for the most part confess, that prayer and oblation for the dead, is not taken at all out of the scriptures, as Tertullian, Augustine and other, the rest that would seek confirmation in the scriptures, as Chrysostome and such like, do so manifestly wrist them to their purpose, that the Papists themselves are ashamed to use those texts of scripture for their proofs. And as for such places, as the later Papists would violently draw unto their error, they have few or none of the old approved writers which though they allow their error yet that so interpret them, as the place. 1. Cor. 3. and Matth. 5. And what a shameless creature is M. Allen, to say the controversy is about the true meaning of the scripture, when he himself in the next leaf before, affirmeth that prayer and sacrifice for the dead, was instituted by Christ at his last Supper, which the holy Ghost afterward did secretly suggest unto the Apostles, and they as secretly delivered to the nations. For, no word nor half word thereof is contained in their writings, which are to us the only true testimony of their tradition. Thus have these heretics no ground of their heresy, but shift from the word of scripture to secret tradition, from tradition to the meaning of scripture, from the plain meaning of scripture, to the unconstant opinions of men, from the variable and contrary opinions of men in times past, to their own obstinacy and continuance in error in time present & yet he woundreth, that we are so blind, that we can not see the clear light of the truth. If Satan transforming himself into an angel of light, hath so dazzled their eyes, that they can not see the true light, they are justly plagued, because they have refused the faithful testimony of God's word, which only giveth true light unto the eyes (as the Prophet saith) and given heed to spirits of errors and doctrines of devils, by whom they are blinded in utter darkness, though it be with false imagination and dreaming of light. Yet see the confidence of the man, he is sure, that if we were examined of our conscience, what trial of this doubt we would wish, there is none we could name, but his cause might well abide it. Why M. Allen, we have testified of our conscience long ago, that the only authority of God's word written, shall satisfy us, as well in this as in all other matters, if you were as desirous to satisfy us, as you pretend, and as able to perform, as you are to promise', we should have heard before this time some sentence of scripture to maintain, prayer and sacrifice for the dead, not standing upon voluntary collection, but either in plain words or necessary conclusion. For there is nothing that we are bound to know, nothing that we are bound to do, but either in express words or in necessary collection, which is as good as express words, it is set forth in the holy Scriptures. Beside this, you should bring a great prejudice against us, if you could bring the consent and practise of the primitive pure Church for the space of an hundredth years after Christ. But neither of these do we look to see, we before see with our eyes the certainty of those things, whereof now we contend in words and writings. The heretics of our time and country, be yet further urged with the practice of prayers for the deceased, their contrary communion is compared with the old usage of Celebration: They are ashamed of the first original of their Christian faith, they are weary of their own service, they are kept in order by the wisdom of the Civil magistrates, and are forced flatly to refuse all the doctors. CAP. XII. 1 THe chief argument, that the Church of God used in old time against Pelagius the enemy of God's grace, was this: that at the holy altar the Priest prayed to God, for to convert heretics and infidels to the faith, and evil livers wicked conversation to virtue and honesty: the which prayers had been to no purpose, if the grace of God had not borne the principal stroke in the changing of man's heart. But being assured of this as a ground, that the prayer of the Priest in the whole Church's name at the altar, can not but bear singular strength and truth, it is necessarily concluded, that seeing the public minister so prayeth, that we must needs believe, that God hath man's heart in his hand, and may turn it to the belief of his word, or love of his will, as he liketh and listeth: notwithstanding the perfect freedom of man's will, which by God's grace is never perished, but always perfected. And in this assured foundation of the public prayers, S. Augustine who then was the soldier of grace, so triumphed against one Vitalis a Pelagian, that he ringeth him this peal, Exerce contra orationes ecclesiae disputationes tuas, Epist. 107. contra Vital. & quando audis sacerdotem dei ad altar exhortantem populum dei orare pro incredulis, subsanna pias voces ecclesiae, & dic te non facere quod hortatur: & homo in Carthagiensi eruditus ecclesia, etiam beatissimi Cypriani librum de oration dominica condemna. Hold on fellow, exercise thy contentious talk against the usual prayers of God's Church, and when thou hearest the Priest of God at his altar exhort the people to pray for the misbelievers, scoff at the holy words, and make him answer, thou wilt not pray as he bids thee: And being brought up in the Church of Carthage, condemn withal, S. Cyprians work upon our lords prayer, wherein he teacheth the same. I tarry now the longer on this point, that thou mayest learn to keep an heretic at the bay: and to fasten thy stroke so surely upon him, that which way so ever he shift, he shall bear thy blow upon his neck and shoulders. It is not for our cause taken in hand, that I now so much travel, for that is long sith made sure enough, for all the devils in Hell, or their followers in earth. But I would in this one example of praying for the dead, give the studious a taste of all such ways, as the truth of all other points in controversy, may be both surely defended, and so plainly proved and upholden, that the adversary shall not be able to say baff unto any one of the lest of all the grounds, whereupon God's truth standeth. Handling then our good men as S. Augustine did the like, say to them boldly: that the same Church which exhorteth the people to pray for the misbelievers, doth give us example to pray for the souls departed: Vitalis and Pelagius were heretics for withstanding the one, they must needs be as very heretics for refusing the other. It was the greatest extremity that Pelagius could be driven to by force of Augustine's argument, to mock at the priest's prayer made at God's altar, and that which then was so foul an absurdity for those false teachers, can it be borne out of ours with honesty? Vitalis the Pelagian had a foul foil by S. Augustine, ●hen he charged him with the contempt of S. Cyprians authority Bishop of Carthage, being himself a ●hield of the same Church. And shall they go away so smouthly now a days, not only with contempe of their own English patrons and Apostles, but with impudent denial of all the doctors at once, that ever were guides of God's Church sith Christ's faith was taught? It was of Augustine counted a singular arrogancy not to pray in that form as God's Church and ministers at the altar both pray themselves, and exhort other to pray: and shall it be such praise for our preachers to erect a new service to be check mate with the old, to controele the rites and usages of solemn supplication in all countries Christianed, and with the true worship to banish together our father's faith? CAP. XII. 1 IN this chapter, where he vomiteth out nothing but railing and lying, he doth rather bewray his own infirmity, then touch the strength of our cause. For being troubled with a sore lax of the tongue, which I take to be a like disease in the mouth that it is in the womb, he gusheth out nothing but bragging, and faceing, scolding, and slandering, taunting and trifling. And therefore I will but briefly confute his vanity and turn him to his matches to contend in that kind of quarrelling. The chief argument (he sayeth) that the Church in times past and Augustine the Church's champion, used against the Pelagians, was to show that their heresy was contrary to the public prayers of the Church: what should I use many words? I appeal to the judgement of all Papists, that have not lost all use of natural reason, and indifferent judgement, which either have read, or will take pains to read, so many works as Augustine did writ against the Pelagians, whether of an hundredth arguments, that he useth, this insultation be not one of the feeblest: which took no hold of the Pelagians by force of truth that is in it, but by their own concession and grant, of that prayer to be godly and them to be of the Church that so prayed. But now the controversy is not only of the substance of doctrine, but of the Church itself also. And therefore when Augustine had to do with the Donatists that challenged the Church unto themselves, he setteth all other tryalles aside, and provoketh only to the scriptures. Therefore (M. Allen) if you will teach your scholars to keep us at the bay as heretics, you must not teach them to bark and bawl, nothing but the Church the Church, like tinkers' curs, but you must instruct them to open cunningly out of the scriptures how our doctrine is contrary to the truth, and yours agreeable to the same. I do not blame you if you would feign have that argument of the Church, without trial which is the Church, to take place, for it would ease you and your fellows of much pain, it would serve you both for a sword and a buckler, all other books, arguments and reasons, might be laid a side and keep silence. The Church saith it, and we are the Church, therefore it is true. The scriptures themselves are altogether needless, where this argument may stand for payment. This is so plain a proof, that the adversaries shall not be able to say baff unto it. In deed they were but sorry whelps that could not say baff to the bleating of such a calf as you are, which think that such a foolish cavil, can carry credit with them that have any crumb of brain in their heads. The Church prayeth so, therefore it is true. Nay Sir, you pray, and practise to control the word of God, therefore you are not the Church of God. Prove that you do not so, or else prate as long as you wil And think not to dorre us with Cyprians name, where as if you had his judgement, we might be bold to say as the same Augustine hath given us example: Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam, cum eius quaslibet literas, à canonica divinarum scripturarum auctoritate distinguimus. Neque enim sine causa tam salubri vigilantia canon Ecclesiasticus constitutus est, ad quem certi Prophetarum & Apostolorum libri pertinent, quos omninò judicare non audeamus, & secundum quos de caeteris literis, vel fidelium vel infidelium liberè vindicemus. Contra Cresconium Gram. lib. 2. cap. 31. We do Cyprian none injury at all, when we put difference between any of his writings, from the canonical authority of the holy Scriptures. For not without a cause with so wholesome diligence is the ecclesiastical canon appointed, unto which certain books of the Prophets and Apostles do pertain, which we dare not judge at all, according to which we may freely judge of all other writings either of faithful men or infidels. And again in the 32. chapter. Ego huius epistolae auctoritate non teneor, quia literas Cypriani non ut Canonicas habeo, sed eas ex canonicis considero, & quoth in eyes divinarum scripturarum auctoritati congruit, cum laud eius accipio, quod autem non congruit, cum pace eius respuo. I am not bound to the authority of this epistle, because I count the letters of Cyprian not as canonical scriptures, but I consider them by the canonical scriptures, and what so ever I find in them agreeable to the authority of holy Scriptures, I take it with his praise, that which agreeth not, I reject it with his leave. judge here (gentle reader) whether Augustine would or should with any indifferency, bind either men to the absolute admitting of Cyprians authority, wherewith he would not be holden himself, and know Allen for a jangler on Augustine's words against the meaning of Augustine, or any reasonable man. 2 I would learn by what Churches example they have left out of their newe fangled fantastical service, the offering and praying for the departed. One of them was so impudent, to say in an open book that the Liturgies of the fathers made all against the Catholics, & for the proof of their false assertions. Wherein sir I pray you tell me? I would call you by your name, if I knew who you were there you were ashamed of your own name, I guess it was M. Pilkinton of Duresme. therefore ye shall lack the glory of your assertion. But who so ever you be, I pray you what affinity betwixt their office of celebration and yours, do you find? they offer the holy host, they worship it, they show it, they pray unto it, which of all these do you? they bless it with the sign of the holy cross, they practise the action upon an altar, how well follow you these? they pray for the dead, they make invocation solemnly to saints, they join with all catholic Churches in the world, where is your cause here amended, or ours not plainly proved? If their service like you so well, or at lest better than S. Gregory's Mass, you might with more honesty have choosed for any one of them, then have forged a new one of your own: which in deed is directly repugnant to all other rites in the Christian world. Which you may well term the service of contradiction and damnation, as one that neither communicateth with the saints in heaven, with the souls in purgatory, nor with the faithful alive. And being ashamed of the Latin Church, you challenge an other origine of faith out of the east part: as though your matter were well amended, if you might shake of that faith and worship which our country in her conversion first received, and in which till this day she hath happily lived, and make the head of our holy tradition uncertain, by referring us unto an unknown origine. 2 He would know by what churches example, we have left out of our service, which he tormeth like himself, prayers and sacrifice for the dead, as though he hath not been often told by the example of God's Church▪ whereof w● have sure warrant out of God's word by example of the eldest Church, and nearest to the Apostles times, as we have showed out of justinus Martyr and Tertullian before he become an heretic. And as for him, that affirmed the old Liturgies, to make against your mass, though he be better able to answer for himself, yet have I showed also, that there are none so full of blasphemy, as your mass is. And it is easy to be gathered by Epiphanius, that the old form of liturgy was, but to make mention of the dead, to have them in remembrance. And because they used to make memory of all sorts of men that were dead in Christ, he expoundeth it according to the error of his time, that this memory was a prayer for the sinners, for the just, as patriarchs, Prophets, etc. a signification that they were inferior to Christ. A simple cause why they should be remembered, but this shift he is driven unto, because he did not consider, that the memory and oblation which the old fathers made for all departed in Christ, was a sacrifice of thanks giving and not of prayers for them. The same order & error do all the later liturgies follow, making memory & prayers for all them that are departed in the faith. In the memory of all departed they follow the old order, in praying for all, they follow the latter error, which had changed the sacrifice of thanks giving into the sacrifice of prayer. But herein they declared, that they had not yet generally received your new doctrine of purgatory, because they prayed not as you do, for them only that are in purgatory, to whom only you confess the prayers to be needful and profitable, but for all that are departed in the faith of Christ from the beginning of the world. And now Sir I have showed, wherein they make against you. But where as you taunt at the author of that book, because he setteth not his name unto it, you show your wit, & bewray your disease. You can neither tell what to speak, nor yet how to hold your peace. In the margin you guess it was M. Pilkington of Duresme: you would feign have such a man to be your adversary, that though you took the foil, y●t you might boast, that you were so bold as to fight with him. But it is an easier matter for such a desperate dick to beginning a fray, then to end it. If I may be as bold to guess as you: I guess that he which made that lusty challenge of the Papist against the Protestant, promising to recant at the end of every article, if he cold be answered, was such a tried Thraso as M. Allen? if you ask me what is the ground of my guess, to omit the stile somewhat like, I will answer as one in Plautus doth: Credo te esse ab illo, nam ita nugas blattis. I take it to be even you, you are so full of bracing and facing. But who so ever he was, was he ashamed of his name because he set not his name unto it? and was the man of Chester ashamed of his name because he setteth it not to his treatise? Finally be all those Papists ashamed of their names, which have written so many petty pamphlettes to be carried abroad in Popish fellows pocketts? O intemperate tongue, which can not spare such taunts, as redound to himself and his own good masters reproach. Your lies of offering, worshipping, and praying to the host be reproved already, you say we might with more honesty have coped for one of those Liturgies, if we liked not Gregory's Mass, rather than to have forged a new. I answer we have with more honesty reformed our liturgy according to the word of God, and example of the oldest Church, than Gregory, Basill, Chrysostome, (if they were theirs) or who so ever were authors of those Liturgies, did leave the ancient Liturgies that were used in the Church before their time, because they did not sufficiently express their errors and superstition, and forge them new of their own contrary to the word of God. And where as you prate of the Latin Church and the East part, we neither refuse the Latin Church while it was pure, nor receive the East Church where in it was corrupt, but the scripture is a rule unto us to judge all Churches by. Although it were easy to prove by that controversy, which the britains and the Scots had against the Saxons, about the celebration of Easter, that our country first received their conversion from the East Church, whose ceremony they did then defend, even as the East Church did long before against Victor Bishop of Rome. By which it appeareth that this land did never receive the doctrine and ceremonies of the Latin Church before the time of the Saxons. And whereas you slander us for referring our faith to an uncertain and unknown Origine, the contrary is manifest, when we refer it to no judgement, or company of men, but to the authority of God's word and all them that will be subject thereunto. But I tarry to long in these trifles. 3. Every man in the primitive Church counted the spring of his faith more pure, and a great deal more clear, if he could against an heretic declare by good testimony that his belief did at length by just count, fall into the Roman Church. So doth Irenaeus against the Valentinians, so doth Cyprian against the novatians, so doth Tertullian and Vincentius against all heretics, so doth Augustine and Optatus against the Donatists, so doth Hyerom and all the rest, against the Arians. All these thought they had a great vantage, if they could by plain account prove against an heretic that their doctrine issued from the Bishop of Rome. De prescri. advers. haereti. Go whether thou wilt (saith Tertulian) and thou shalt find some apostolic seat to instruct thy conscience: thou hast hard by the Philippos, or Ephesus, or Rome, Epist. 165. and there lo fetch we the authority of our faith. S. Augustine that knew best how to fetch an heretic over the coals, urgeth him ever to reduce his doctrine to some Bishop of Rome: when he had him once at that strait, then lo, he goeth through the whole rank of holy bishops by name, to the number of forty well near. Bring me once an evident declaration that your faith issued from any one bishop of that Sea, and then you may pass throw the long line of that succession with out brack, or any rapture in the world. I could make account (saith Irenaeus) of many successions of apostolic Churches: but that were to long, only Rome shall serve, that is the greatest, the ancientest, and best known, and by the tradition of that Church confundimus omnes eos, Lib. 3. cap. 3 we utterly confound all heretics. It is a strange thing, that the father's having store of apostolic successions, did ever choose out for the warrant of their faith from amongst the rest, the Roman Seat: And now when there is no apostolic Church left in the whole world but it, Note. that they will seek to churches whereof there is neither certainty, nor succession: when by plain open dealing we may reduce, and must needs refer our faith to that, which was ever of all other most far from falshoodde. 3 Every man in the primitive Church, counted the springe of his faith more pure, if he could derive it out of the holy Scriptures, and show the continuance thereof, in any of the Apostolic Churches whereof Rome was but one. And condemned all heresies of novelty or later string, which could not bring the first author of their heresies, either from any of the Apostles: or apostolic men which continued in the doctrine of the Apostles: as Tertullian doth in that book De praescriptionibus adversus haereses. The like doth Irenaeus. And that these men specially named the Church of Rome, it was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles, so it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles. And these heretics for the most part had been sometimes of the Church of Rome, as Valentinus, Martion, Novatus. But none of these fathers, as M. Allen would have it appear, was such a slave to the Church of Rome, that what so ever pleased the bishops of that Sea, they were ready to accept. For than would not Irenaeus so sharply have reproved Victor, as Eusebius declareth of him Lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian would not have taken up Cornelius and Stephanus as appeareth by his epistles. Hieronym would not have been so bold to call Rome the purple whore of Babylon Praefat. ad Paulinum in lib. Didym. Nor to compare the bishop of Eugubium with the bishop of Rome Euagrio, nor to make the Church of England equal with the Church of Rome: Nec iam altera Romanae urbis ecclesia, altera totius orbis existimanda est. Et Gallia, & Britania, & Africa & Bersis & Oriens & Indiae & omnes barbarae nationes unum Christum adorant, unam observant regulam veritatis. Si authoritas quaeritur, orbis maior est urbe. Neither must we think that there is one Church of the city of Rome an other of all the world beside. Both France and Britain and Africa, and Persia, and the east, and India, and all barbarous nations worship one Christ, keep one rule of truth. If authority be sought, the world is greater than one city etc. Lo Sir, here is a Church and christianity, and a rule of truth, with out the bishop of Rome, with out the Church of Rome, yea, and contrary to the church of Rome. For to them that alleged the custom of the church of Rome, he saith: Quid mihi proffers unius urbis consuetudinem? what bring you me the custom of one city? and Augustine himself, that knwe so well to fetch an heretic over the coals, I trow fetched Zosimus, Bonifacius, and Coelestinus bishops of Rome meetly well over the coals, when he and his fellows the bishops of Africa, took them with plain forgery, and falsification of the canons of the council of Nice. Consilio Milebitano & Africano. As for that which M. Allen counteth so strange, is for lack of skill and right judgement. For the same cause that moved those ancient fathers to appeal to the judgement of the church of Rome, moveth us now to condemn the church of Rome of heresy. wherefore did they reverence the church of Rome? Ask Tertullian, he answereth because it had by succession retained even until his days, that faith which it did first receive of the Apostles: Therefore it was a true Church, therefore it was an apostolic Church, which because it doth not now, neither hath done of many years, and hath nothing to boast of, but the empty names of many good bishops, but thrice as many more of cursed Antichrist's, therefore it is now a false church, and a company of heretics, departed from the ancient romans true and apostolic faith. 4 Bring my faith once to S. Gregory, and the very stream shall drive me to S. Peter and Paul, maugre all their beards. In which ordre of Bishops, find me one that set forth by decree any practice of contrary doctrine, to that which his next predecessor did before him maintain, & I will go seek with the stray, a new mother Church to found my faith upon. If all be in this succession self and sound, what a folly were it to forsake our own mother, and spring of our belief, to seek other which have often erred when they stood, and now be almost wholly decayed. But yet it is wisdom for false teachers with all force to fly from so great light, as may arise to the truth by the recognizing of that sound succession, and going the just contrary way from the old doctor's faith, it is not to be thought strange, that they directly seek to overthrow that bulwark, which they ever leaned unto in the storms of schism and heresy. The shrews do know full well the might of truth in that Seat and succession, to have beaten down all their forefathers, the heretics of all agies. They fear their fall, whose steps they follow. They utter much malice, & torment themself in every sermon in vain: that Church feeleth no sore, but in sorrow of compassion towards her forsakers: she hath bidden greater storms than this, first by tyrants, then by heretics, last and most by the evil life of her own Bishops. In all which she yet standeth, and ever riseth to honour, as she is most impugned. Their own preaching hath singularly opened the might of God in the defence of that Seat of unity. When they first began to touch and taunt the Pope in every sermon, in every play, in book and balate, men that before living in faithful simplicity much meddled not with his matters, nor often heard of his name, began strait upon their busy ralinge, to conceive by reasonable discretion, that there lay some great ground of matter and weight of truth upon that point which they could not digest in so many years bawling and barking at his name: they saw the Pope ever in their way, never out of their mouth, and they doubted not but that singular hatred grew upon some great importance: and so admonished luckily by the adversaries, they sought the bottom of that perfect and deep hatred, and found that it was the old sore of the Arians, and disease of the Donatists, and common to all heretics: they perceived by S. Cyprian that the first attempt of such men, De simplicit. praelatorum. was to drive away the pastor, that they might with out resistance devour and destroy the flock. And which was the prick of all their endeavours, to take from us the acknowledging of the great and singular benefit of our conversion to the faith: that in stopping the head of that condeth, and plentiful well of our faith, they might in heat of contention and heresy, easily dry up the whole issue thereof. By heretics preaching many are become Catholics. And this earnest consideration causeth many at this day to forsake their heresies: and to be a great deal more at this time, which know the truth of this matter, then when they began first to preach thereof. 4 Bring this man's faith to Gregory, & then the stream shall drive him to Peter and Paul, Nay M. Allen bring you your faith from Peter and Paul by good testimony of their holy writings, and then you shall not need to row in Cockelaurels boat, neither with stream nor against it. But you offer us fair play, we must bring you one Bishop of Rome, that did set forth by decree, any practice of contrary doctrine, to that which his next predecessor did before him maintain, and you will seek a new mother Church. If I should bring you Sabinianus which controlled the decrees of Gregory: or Stephanus that condemned the decrees of Formosus, from which time the story testifieth, that it grew unto a custom, that every Bishop would condemn his predecessors decrees, you would answer that all this was without your compass. So will you say if I name Honorius, who was an heretic of the sect of the Monothelites, condemned both by his successor and by a general council. I bring no small proofs M. Allen, but such as you can not with for greater. Look in the sixth general council, holden at Constantinople. Acti. 13. there shall you read that the decretal epistle of Honorius whereby he confirmed Sergius in his heresy, was red, and burned, & Honorius himself anathematized, as an heretic. Look a little further unto the 18. action, there shall you found the decretal epistle of Pope Leo the second, written to the council wherein he condemneth Honorius his predecessor for an heretic, and his doctrine for heresy. But what say you to Liberius & Felix whereof either one, or as jeronym affirmeth, both were Arians? how were their decrees liked of their successors? how did they allow the decrees of their predecessors? Finally where as you say, that our earnest & often preaching against the Pope hath won you so many Catholics, we will by God's grace continued to gratify you still by that means, and give you good leave when you have counted your cards, to boast of your winnings. 5 But I will not press them over sore: suppose I grant them that which they would so gladly win: that we had not our faith first from Rome, though it be as false, as God is true. But suppose it were not so, and I give you leave to father your faith where you william. If it be not upon Latimer (whom a foolish fellow, in the book of conference betwixt Latimer and Ridley, termeth the English Apostle: as one more worthy of that name (as he saith) than Augustine, but else where you will: and when you have done, prove me that your mother Church prayeth not for the departed in her Mass and solemn service, and you shall be exalted up for ever. And at your next change frame your new communion after that old usage on God's blessing: If you can find any form of celebration far enough from ours, follow it and spare not. But I am sure, you shall never be able to find any old service in the world fit for your new diet. Our Mass is all one with the Masses of a●l other countries and times. They be all to much like our Mass for your purpose, as in deed alone in every point of importance with ours. As the Churches to whom they belonged, perfectly before their decay, in faith and unity agreed with ours. 5 Although we accounted Latimer for a worthy teacher, and more worthy of the name of an Apostle for his apostolic doctrine, than Augustine the Monk, yet build we our faith (as you know) neither upon him, nor any other, but only upon the word of God. And as for our mother Church, is no certain place, or company of men in any one place upon earth, but jerusalem which is above, is mother of us all. Galat. 4. And who so ever were children of this Church, would never found fault with our communion, which can not be condemned by the word of God, and therefore careth not for the comparison of the custom of other men which whether they used the like or not, in form of words, which is not material, so they used not other substance of matter except they did it beside the word of God. How like your Mass is to other country masses, when there was never any mass but yours, I leave it to consider and compare to all them that had rather see the truth themselves, then to be deceived by you. 6 I am sure when you can not like your own communion, ye would not be pleaced with one of an others making. But an other you must needs have, and further you must go from us, walk forward you will to the extreme end of heresy, and utter denying of Christianity. All the world can not stop your falling from the hill of God's Church, till you come in the bottomless pit of Hell. I would be loath to slander them with the brute of the world, which though it be in every man's mouth, that they like not this communion, yes upon that rumour I would not have said so far, but that they have uttered their own meaning, in a treatise of their own making, in these words: In marriage as in all other thinger beside, Against the Chester man. we are but to much like unto them: that is our ●ault generally that we differ not more from them in all our ministery. These words utter their grief that they can got no further from us in their service: and that you be not deceived, the author of this book where this complaint is made, knoweth well the meaning of his fellows herein, and how glad they would be shifting forward. They sit on thorns till they be doing with a new gise. It is no worse man than the B. of Duresme that taketh cold in so long a stand of their communion. My simple head could not devise how they might possibly go forward, and keep them with in any bond of Christianity. What they cast in their brain for their further proceeding I can not tell, the serpent is subtle, and our sins be great. 6 If any man mislike the form of our service, as not differing sufficiently from yours, he showeth his greater zeal in detestation of your idolatry and blasphemy. In the mean time what need this great wondering, for once or twice alteration in the form, where the matter is still retained, when if we shall believe your own stories, your service hath not had much less than an hundredth innovations, so often as one piece or other was added or patched to it. And yet in this one country of England, how many diverse forms of service had you? so that you could never grow to uniformity? York, Salesbury, Bangor, Hereford, etc. 7 I much marvel not now, to see the temporal Magistrates of their wisdoms, to hedge these men's wantonness in all their ordre of life: for they are so drunken and drowned in heresy, that they have no sense of common reason. What a do had the magistrates to make these wild men go in priestelike apparel, to keep their Rotchettes, to observe some step of antiquity in their manners? How they were driven to tempre their lusts in provision for some ordrely choice of their wives: that seeing them have no respect on what women they light, Look the Injunction for the marriage of Priests & other things. that by justices of peace yet, they might be bestowed, if not well, yet with their less dishonesty, upon persons not openly infamous. Such fellows are more fit to be governed, then to bear rule over other: in whom without constraint you shall neither find comeliness in manners, ordre in life, nor constancy in religion. God of his mercy give them some light to see their own misery, and spirit of humility to subject themselves in time to God's Church, that is so careful over them, though to their own great harm, they so deadly hate her. They can show no cause in the world, why they need in any one point of all those which at this day be in controversy betwxit them and their own mother, rather to credit their own fantasies, than her grave authority: which only without farther questioning, with obedient children maketh more, than all argument or eloquence of man, in the earth. 7 If the civil Magistrates have thought good in some outward ceremony or usage, to bear with the infirmity of the weaker sort of your side, in hope to win them, it is a small matter for you that are the obstinate of that sect to triumph upon, when all your blasphemous doctrine is abolished, and nothing left but a few rags of your robes to look upon. And as for the injunction for priests marriage, was either to stop your slanderous mouths, when godly ministers wives should have testimoy of their honesty by men of such credit, or else to bridle the lust of your own tounebulls the popish Priests, which when licence of whoredom is denied them, and liberty to marry permitted them, would make no better choice perhaps of their wives, than they did before of their women. We can show no cause in the world you say, why we need in any one point of controversy departed from your Church: yes M. Allen, this one cause shall serve for all, because your church is departed from the truth of God's word, and dare not abide the trial thereof, but will sit like a proud dame in a chair, & control the Scriptures, the ordinance of Christ, and the commandments of God himself. But how so ever you boast of her fast sitting, she shall down, she shall down, even to the bottom of hell. 8 And for such as may for their simplicity be soon deceived by following other men's errors, with whom the names of doctors, or the only bore brag of scriptures, are as good as the allegation of places: The youngers, must thus pose their masters. Let them ask of their teachers how they can shift themself when they see the practice of God's Church generally so plain for all Catholic assertions, as for the article of praying for the dead, amongst many other the like, is now before proved. Call upon them, and ask them in earnest, because it lieth upon thy salvation, whether thou must give any credit to the perpetual agreement and consent of all ancient doctors? If they say yea: desire them to answer first to all these places, so evidently confirming our purpose, that they can not abide any cloud or cover of man's subtlety, for their shifting to any forged sense. If they can not, yet let them allege some place of any ancient writer themselves, which do expressly deny purgatory or prayers for the dead: as we for the confirming thereof have done in plain terms with out craft or colour many. If they be not able to do so much, yet go further with them: ask them whether they have any express words in scripture that deny prayers to be profitable for the dead, not by a fond guess of their own heads, corrupt consciences, or prejudicate minds, expounded to that purpose, but I say by express words: or at lest (which is liberty enough) expounded for that meaning by any one man of all the antiquity. If they can allege thee but one word of scripture construed of any one, I say in all ages, to confirm their understanding to be currant, and not framed for their fantasy, to serve the necessity of their cause, be bold to follow them. I would not put them to the pains to make discourse throughout all ages, churches, times, and doctors, as we have done: but only let them to keep their credit and scholars, and to save their honesties, bring but one or two of all that ever wrote in the compass of God's Church, and thou mayest with less danger, and better reason, follow their doctrine. But there is no one such place, I assure the good reader, neither in scripture, doctor, nor council, nor country, nor age sith the world began. I will go so far in this point: where there was ever step of any true worship of God, there was prayer found for the dead also. They can not show me any form of ministration in the Christian world, that was approved, which hath it not expressly: if it be known that it was in deed the service of any ancient Church, not corrupted by themselves. The same I dare be bold to avouch for the law of nature, and Moses, because it is proved already. All their bragging of the example of the primitive Church, the masses of other countries, of the doctors, of the scriptures, of the councils, is but an untolerable delusion and abuse of the simplicity of such, as be not skilful in the authors whom they name. For when the matter comes to an issue, when they be hard holden, either in this or in any other matter: than the doctors, (whom they challenged before the simple for their partakers) were but men, than they might err, than they have learned only to credit the holy Scriptures, than there is nothing but God's word and book with them: which else full feign would have the doctor's consent, out of whom it were but a mean place which they would not allege for their purpose, if it might be found. Then if denial of all the doctor's judgements serve not their turn, In accusationem ipsarum sc●ipturarum convertuntur: Irenaeus Lib. 3. cap. 2 they will not stick boldly to condemn the holy Scriptures with all. 8 Now the youngers must pose their masters (as M. Allen a passing good Logician doth teach them) yea and that is more, he will teach us what to answer also, but saving his wisdom, he must give us leave to answer for ourselves. First if we be asked how we can shift ourselves against the general practice of God's Church, for all popish assertions, and namely this of praying for the dead: we answer, that we deny the practice to be general, because we find it not in the holy Scriptures, nor in the most ancient writers, that lived with in an hundredth years and more after the time of Christ. And to the particular practice of the later times, we answer, that it is not sufficient to control the ancient doctrine, and primer practise. If we be required to show some place of any ancient writer, which denieth purgatory or prayers for the dead, we have already showed that Augustine some time doth doubt whether there be purgatory, some time affirmeth there is no mean or third place, but heaven for the elect, and hell for the reprobate, likewise for praying or satisfying for the dead, we have alleged Cyprian and others: your own common law, out of Hieronym, saith, that the prayers of the living profit not the dead. 13. quaest. 2. In praesenti saeculo etc. In this present world, we know that one of us may be helped of an other, either by prayers or by counsels, but when we should come before the judgement seat of Christ, neither job nor Daniel nor No, can entreat for any man, but every man must bear his own burden. Yea Gelasius the Pope saith, that no man can be absolved of the Pope after his death 24. q. 2. C. legatur. Wherefore serve the Pope's pardons then? To that which is required of the express word of God, forbidding prayers for the dead, we answer, that all places of scripture, that forbid prayers without faith, forbid prayer for the dead, for faith is not every man's vain persuasion, but an assurance out of the word of God, which because we can not have in praying for the dead, therefore we are forbidden to pray for them. If it be against the hope of Christians to morn for the dead, much more it is against the faith and hope of Christians to pray for them. For by our prayer we suppose them to be in misery whom the word of God doth testify to be in happiness, to be at rest, to be with Christ, john 17. Apoc. 14. And as for a place so expounded by an ancient writer, I will seek no farther than the place of Hieronym even now alleged out of your own canon law upon 2. Cor. 5. referring the reader to many other places alleged in this answer, as out of Cyprian, Origene and others, by which the intolerable lying, bragging, and railing of this miscreant, shallbe better confuted, then by any contradiction of words. And where as he sayeth we challenge the old doctors before the simple, for our partakers, whether they be simple or wise before whom we speak, as we speak not always before the simple only, but often times and commonly before as wise and well learned men as M. Allen, we never make any such challenge of them as the Papists do, which offer to stand to their judgement in all things, and yet in most things yea in the chiefest points of religion, that be so in deed, or be so counted of them, they are contrary to the doctors and old councils, for which cause, and not for confirmation of truth, we allege the authority of men, for we have learned, as Augustine saith, to give this honour, only to the canonical scriptures, that we must believe them with out controversy, and all other writings we receive so far as they agreed with the scriptures and not other wise, wherefore we do not only say that the doctors have erred like men, but we have proved it, so that the Papists themselves can not say nay for shame. But to that he saith, we do boldly condemn the holy Scriptures, that it out of all measure impudent, and slanderous. And that which he citeth out of Irenaeus, belike as he had it of some foolish priest, that fed him with notes of doctors, or as he is impudent enough, to pervert the father's meaning, himself, so if he had alleged the whole sentence he might well have taken himself, and the rest of his fellows by the noses, for heretics, by the judgement of Irenaeus, whose words be these. Cum enim ex scriptures arguantur, in accusationem convertuntur ipsarum scripturarum, quasi non rectè hab●ant, neque sit ex authoritate, & quia variè sunt dictae, & quia non possit inveniri veritas, ab his qui nesciant traditionem, non enim per literas traditam illam, sed per vivam vocem. When they be confuted by the scriptures, they are turned into the accusation of the scriptures themselves, as though they were not well, nor of sufficient authority, both because the truth can not be found of them which know not the tradition, for that was not delivered by writing but by word of mouth. How say you M Allen, who is an heretic by Irenaeus judgement? who accuseth the scriptures as though they were not of sufficient authority, who saith the scriptures are like a nose of wax? who say the truth can not be found in scriptures without tradition of unwritten verities? In good sooth M. Allen, you have the worst grace of any that ever I knew, in alleging the sentences of the doctors, for you allege few or none, but either in whole or in part they make against you. 9 But if you think that I feane of them, you shall see what shameful shifts the masters and captains of the contrary assertion have devised for the defence of themselves: I dare say if the studious be but any whit indifferent, he will leave their school for ever. The chief Captain of all these contentious heads, like an unshamefast child, affirmeth that the doctors praised and followed the common errors of the ignorant people, in alms and prayers for the departed. Brentius answereth, that Tertullian making mention of yearly oblations for the deceased, took his error of the heathen usage of the gentility. And Augustine (he saith) affirmed purgatory, In confession Wittember. prayers, and alms for them, for the affiance that he had in men's merits towards the remission of sins. Melancthon (as though he were no man that might orre himself) saith the doctors were men, In Apologia. and discented amongst themselves. As for the usage of any celebration in the world, what room can it have with these champions, when C●luin confesseth in plain terms, Instit. de Coena. that the celebration of the Sacrament hath been contaminated even in a manner sith the Apostles time, and first planting of our religion? and to reduce it to the purity again, the man frames a new one of his own: so far from superstition, that it hath no step of religion or true worship of God. But well, the word of God is yet safe with them, there a man may hold them. Not surely: they are as palsy with the very scripture itself, when so ever it maketh against them. Brentius before named, is not ashamed to say that he pardoneth the author of the Maccabees of his error and ignorance. And that thou may see the perfect image of a proud heretic, Caluin saith thus: as for the book of the Maccabees I will not vou●hsalfe to make answer to it. Merciful God what faithful heart or ear could abide these blasphemous tongues● who of untolerable arrogancy do so deface the examples and doctrine, not only of the pillours of the whole Christian Church, whom they impudently for lack of a more reasonable answer, condemn not only of simple ignorance: and error in this point, with the residue of the whole faithful people, which surely is over much to say of such learned and godly men as they were, but also of wilful error and superstition, in bearing and maintenance of the common ignoration, and ethnic persuasion of the world in their days: and following the heathen usage of the gentility. And yet not content therewith, these lying masters of their mere mercy be content to offer a pardon to the author of that book for his error, which book the whole catholic Church of God through out Christiandome taketh for canonical scripture, Which arrogancy and passing boldness, although I persuade myself no virtuous man will in them allow, sith they now being put to their shifts, utterly do condemn those fathers, whose names with great ostentation they often to the simple repeat to make them suppose they be not with out scripture or doctors for the proof of their wilful heresies, yet even the very answer itself which they imagine here in to disgrace the doctors, and delude the ignorant, is contrary to itself in sundry points. For they one while affirm that S. Augustine and others allowed that error which the people by their superstitious devotion had before their time brought in to the prayers of the Church: and an other while, that judas Machabaeus did institute it, who was before these author's divars hundreds of years: and somewhile that they borrowed it of the gentility, all which points be repugnant each to other. For neither could that begin in our Christian doctors days, which was used before Christ's birth: neither need they to borrow it of the heathen which was in estimation and praised amongst the jews. 9 We need no shifts M. Allen for the authority of the doctors, whom we never allow for canonical Scriptures, and therefore we may boldly say, as Augustine saith of Cyprian, what so ever we found in them agreeable to the Scriptures, we receive it with their praise, and what so ever is disagreeable to the Scriptures we refuse with their leave. Now by what means they fell into this error that maintained prayer and alms for the dead, I shall have better occasion to show in the answer to the 14. chapter, although it be not greatly material, to know how they came into error, when it is sufficiently proved that they did err. As for the abridgement of jason, the Cyrenians story, which M. Allen maketh such a precious jewel, I have answered enough before, that the author himself, desiring pardon of his readers, hath testified sufficiently, that he was no scribe of the holy Ghost, as also by many other unavoidable reasons, with the consent of the Catholic Church, which it were superfluous here to repeat. Finally whereas you say, that our answer is contrary to itself, you seek a knot in a rush. For all may be true. First the devil suggested superstitious devotion into the Gentiles, by perverse emulation of whom, judas might be deceived, and his fact give occasion to the ignorant people of error, and their ignorance first winked at, because it had a show of piety, confirmed by custom, might at length be allowed of Augustine and others who never weighed the matter by Scriptures, but by the common practice. And this I think is the right degree of prayers for the dead and purgatory. That the praying for the dead was appointed to be had in the holy sacrifice, by the Apostles commandment and prescription: And that our doctors by the majesty of their name, bear down our light adversaries. CAP. XIII. 1 But that this falsehood may better appear in these men, we will by good testimony try out, when and by whom, the oblation and sacrifice with other ordinary reliefs of the departed were so uniformly used through the Christian world: as like wise it shall be profitable to consider, who were the first authors of the contrary opinions. And that the holy Ghost by the Apostles own preaching and prescription, was the first author of this solemn supplication in masses of all usages for the departed, I might first prove by this general rule of S. Augustine. Quod universa tenet ecclesia, Epistol. ad januar. & de Baptis. contra Donatist. lib. 4. cap. 24. nec concilijs institutum sed semper retentum est, non nisi authoritate apostolica traditum rectissime credimus. that which the whole Church observeth, and hath always so been kept, being not instituted by any Council, it can not otherwise be had, but by the Apostles authority and tradition. And so by the like saying of Leo the great. Dubitandum non est, quicquid in ecclesia in consuetudinem est devotionis retentum, Sermon. 2. de jeiunio. de traditione apostolica, & de S. Spiritus prodire doctrina. It can not be doubted, but that what so ever is in the Church by general custom of devotion kept and maintained, it came out of the Apostles tradition, and doctrine of the holy Ghost. But I will seek with them by certain demonstration, and plain ordre of reason that it must needs so be. Praying for the dead was invented by no man sith the Apostles days: A sure way to try the beginning of any doctrine. there can no one be named by the adversary, before whom I can not name an other that prayed for the dead. Let him say where he list: this man or that man was the first that ever prayed for the dead in Christ's Church: if I can not show an other before him so named, to have prayed also, we will take him for the first author, and then he fully stoppeth our course that we can not bring this observation so high as the Apostles days. But if the adversary can appoint me out no time nor person that began this usage, before which I am not able to prove it was practised, than they can not let us but we must needs drive it upward, to the Apostles and Christ's own institution. CAP. XIII. 1 IF prayer for the dead was appointed by the Apostles commandment, why is there never a word thereof in their writings? there is warrant ●or lesser matters than this is made of, why is this and all other popish trash counted their tradition, which can not be warranted by their writing? If I were disposed to pose you, this question would make you claw your poll an hundred times before you could imagine any coulo●able answer. for right answer you shall never be able to make. But I take not upon me to pose but to answer, first your authority of Augustine, serveth not your turn, for prayers for the dead have not been always observed, namely in the Apostles times, nor long after. The saying of Leo the great, may be backed with the writing of Leo the great. Epi. 10. Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt, qui cum ad cognoscendum veritatem aliquo impediuntur obscuro, non ad propheticas voces, non ad apostolicas literas, nec ad evangelicas auctoritates, sed ad semetipsos recurrunt. Sed ideò erroris magistri existunt quia veritatis discipuli non fuerunt. They fall into this folly, which when they be hindered by any obscurity, to know the truth, have not recourse to the words of the Prophets, nor to the writings of the Apostles, nor to the authority of the Gospel, but to themselves. But therefore are they masters of error, because they have not been scholars of truth. In these words Leo as great as you would have him. maketh the Scriptures, & not customs or traditions, the rule of truth. But I will come to your demonstration, which you call a sure way to try the beginning of any doctrine, yet under correction of your demonstrative Logic, I may be bold to say it is not the proper way, nor the way by which all doctrine may be tried, and so you break 2. of those principal rules, that Aristotle giveth for demonstration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the proper way to try all doctrine is by conferring it with the word of God Again the first author of every heresy can not be named. There was one heresy of them that were called Acephali, because there was no head known of them. It is hard to name the first author of the Manichees, whom the heretics themselves call an Apostle of Christ. The Chiliastes, the Oph●tes, the Caineanes, the Sethoites, the Adamianes, the Melchezed●chianes, the apostolic, the Hemerobaptistes, and an hundred more heresies, shall they be thought to have their heresy from tradition of the Apostles, if the first author of them can not be named? & yet I ween it will be hard for him to prove out of any authentical writer, that any before Tertullian, either named or allowed prayer for the dead, who was almost 2. hundredth years after the incarnation of Christ. 2 If they answer me, that this usage is crept into the church sith the Apostles time, though the first author can not be known: I will also provide, that there no shift shall serve them. Therefore I ask them whether that man which first preached it, was resisted by the rest of God's Church which before his preaching believed the contrary, or no? That is it say, this doctrine of praying for the dead when it first came into the church, did any of the true pastors free from the same error, bark like a good shepherd against the beginner of that, which they count so great a corruption of truth? Or all the Church was corrupted with it on one day? say what you think likest in this case, answer with any probability or reason if you can: say plainly, was our doctrine ever preached against, or never? if it never were preached against, than it never began as any novelty or new doctrine? For it could not be that the Church being free from that doctrine, should strait without contradiction allow that, which they liked not before. How can any man arise in the common wealth, and bring the utter decay of all the old ordres which he findeth, and erect up a new devise of his own, and never man speak a word against him, but all in one moment allow and like the same, and that without all record by memory or monument of any change? But this thing is most far from the Churches and Gods pastors diligence, that never received false doctrine without open contradiction, and plain noting the party that first began it, as we shall pluck our gentlemen by the sleeve a none. All those that have any skill in the antiquity, will bear me record, that the pastors did never hold their peace when any wolf did but once open his mouth against the sheep. They can tell, that she did never bear the preaching or practice of any false and erroneous doctrine for one day together. than it must needs consequently follow, that the doctrine of purgatory and oblation for the departed with still consent of all nations received in the Catholic Church, had no beginning after the first institution of our faith and worship of God, but hath joined from the first ground of our Christian institution in Christ's faith, with that sacrifice and due honour of God which the Apostles by the suggestion of the holy Ghost planted in all nations with the same faith. Thus I make my argument: Note. every falsehood was preached against, and withstanded when it is first entered, but this doctrine of purgatory and praying for the dead being always used: was never controwled nor gainsaid in God's Church, therefore it is no falsehood, nor ever had any later institution than the Apostles own prescription. 2 Supposing that this error crept into the Church, though the first author thereof can not be known, he demandeth whether any man preached against it when it began first to be received. I answer if the Pastors of the Church had done their duty to the uttermost, it could not so easily have prevailed, And yet it is not to be thought but that some of the true Pastors in that time, opposed themselves against it, although the history of the Church in that time wh●n it began to be spread, is to brief & unperfect, that we should be able to name, who they were that preached against it. Of so many heresies as Epiphanius nameth in his time, it were hard to require and unpossible to show, who preached against every one of them, at their first entrance, & yet they be damnable heresies. In S. Augustine's days, of whose time the history of the Church is largely set forth unto us, who preached or writ against that error which he and Innocentius Bishop of Rome, & all the church as he confessed did hold, that infants must receive the holy communion or else they should be damned? Who preached against this error, except perhaps the Pelagians that were horrible heretics? Was all the Church corrupted with it in one day? If every heresy had been beaten down as fast as it sprang, Antichrist should never have set up his throne in the temple of God. If God had not sent into the world the efficacy of error, that they which refused to believe the truth, should be justly condemned to believe lies: the man of sin and son of perdition, had never advanced himself above all that is called God. 2. Thessaly. 2. And therefore M. Allen pluck not us by the sleeve, but yourself by the nose, you are the heretics that refuse to believe the truth, you are they that turn away your ears from truth to fables, you are they that attend to spirits of error and doctrines of devils, forbidding to marry, and abstaining from meats which God hath created to be received with thanks giving. There is the brand mark of Romish religion, that all the water in Tiberis nor in the Ocean sea, shall not be able to wash out. Must we find out the authors of your heresies? Nay justify them yourselves by the word of God if you can. And because you bring in a witty example of the common wealth, I will answer you with the like. Must the Magistrate either justify a thieves possession, or else bring out the author where he had it? Nay the thief must bring out good proof, how and by whom he came by such goods, or else he is worthy to be served like such a one. So shall you not compel us to tell you, where, when, or how your heresy came in, seeing it is sufficient for us to show, that it came not from God, nor by the Apostles, nor through their doctrine. But you do well to conclude your reason in a syllogism, for then by the weakness thereof doth appear your mayor and minor be both false, or at the lest wise unable to be proved of you. For every falsehood hath not been preached against, at the first entry. And how are you able to prove, that purgatory and praying for the dead hath not been preached against? therefore your conclusion is as true and as certain as your premises. 3 But what needs all this a do? by their own consent we shall drive this doctrine thirteen HUNDRED years upward. For so near was Tertullian the Apostles days, whom they confess to have practised that point of oblations for the dead. And ask him where he had it (for surely he invented it not himself) and he appointeth us to his forefathers: De corona militis. he nameth the Apostles for the authors and founders thereof, as of many other things, which he there reckoneth beside, that were generally received, and now be of heretics likewise contemned. We might yet step two C. year forward, and found amongst the Apostles own hearers, the same doctrine both allowed and practised, but that they will make exception of Dionysius and Clement's works (such shifts men must find that will defend falsehood.) Other I will name, that be out of their exceptions: Who I think as well for their time, knowledge, and credit, as their excellent virtue, both can and will better tell the origine of that thing, the authors whereof were more nigh their time than ours. If they would believe S. Augustine, as they often profess they will, the matter might soon be ended: but because I fear they stand so much in the corrupt conceit of their own singularity, that they will be bold to reject him, I shall both lay him to their charges & divers other of greater antiquity that shall in express words affirm this usage to come from the Apostles own school. That thereby they may either acknowledge their errors, or else by such grave and uncorrupt judges, be condemned of wilful malicious blindness. Thus S. Augustine writeth. Ser. 22. de ver: Apost. By the prayers of the holy Church, the profitable sacrifice, and alms bestowed for the souls departed, out of all doubt the deceased be relieved, so that thereby almighty God may deal more mercifully with them than their sins required. For this practice delivered unto us by our fathers, is observed universally in Christ's Church, that for such as be departed in the communion of Christ's body and blood, when at the sacrifice they be orderly named, prayers should be made, and the same sacrifice mentioned to be done for them. Here, by his words thou understands, that the profit rising by the prayers or sacrifice to the departed hath no doubt in it. They were through the world used, not in the Church which they say hath been for nine HUNDRED years corrupted by superstitious ignorance, but in that Church, which our adversaries do confess, maugre their heads, to have been holy, Catholic, and apostolic. And it was not then begun, but received by the provision of God's holy spirit, of the Apostles: whom he calleth the fathers of our faith. 3 It is not denied, but Tertuillan maketh mention of oblations for the dead, but what kind of oblations, it is not yet agreed upon, but such they were, as were offered for men's births, for they be joined together. Oblationes pro defunctis, pro natalitijs, annua die facimus, we make oblations yearly for the day of men's death, and the day of men's birth. Now it is not like, they offered prayers but thanks giving for men's birth, and even so for their death. For those places, out of the other books, where he speaketh of prayers for men's spirits, I will consider afterward. But in this book de corona militis, if oblations were prayers, which he saith came from the Apostles, he utterly denieth that they came from the Scriptures. Therefore by tertullian's judgement, you do abuse the Scriptures, which would wrist them to prove out of them that which he saith can not be proved by them. But think you, prayers for the dead came from the Apostles, because he saith so? If you answer yea, then must you likewise think, that it is a wicked thing to fast on Sunday, or to pray on your knees, for in the same place, he saith that these opinions came also from the Apostles. If you answer, he saith untruly of these, so do we answer of the other. Now come back of your 13. hundredth years, to seek your apostolic tradition where you can find it. All is not Gospel that Tertullian hath said. As for the works of Clemens and Dionysius you know full well, they be not currant, and therefore I marvel at your modesty, that you will not now oppress us with them. But it is because you have store enough beside. Howbeit if the most ancient fail you, it is not for the later sort to help you. If Tertullian had no ground of his saying, when he affirmed that oblations for the dead came from the Apostles, what ground can Augustine have which was 200. years farther from the Apostles time than he? But where you charge us to confess, that the Church in Augustine's time was holy, Catholic, and apostolic, you must wit, if you will, that although we may so confess, in respect of the substance of true doctrine, which then was taught, yet we do not thereby justify every error & superstition of that age. But as Augustine saith, in his retractations lib. 2. cap. 18. he doth not mean, that the Church is pure and perfect in this life, with out all spot of blemish, for even the whole Church by reason of certain ignorance and infirmities of her members, hath need to say every day: Forgive us our debts. 4 Athanasius (me think the adversary part should quake when I name him) who was in his days terrible to the wicked, audible to heretics, & to all virtuous men an especial stay in the troublesome times of the Church, whose grace was so great that he abbrigeth our whole faith into a brief psalm called the Creed of Athanasius: which is believed of all Christian men no less than the holy Scriptures of the new Testament. Who as he right well knew how to defend himself against the wicked Arrians by the doctrine of the Catholic Church, so he hath left us in writing how to arm ourselves against the like adversaries of truth, with his mind in such other points of weight, as in his days were not doubted of, which yet might fall in question, by the contentious wits of many, that can not quiet themselves in the wholesome doctrine of Christ's Church. Amongst other things, what this holy man's mind was concerning the utility & usage of prayers and sacrifice for the dead, and who were the institutors thereof, thou shall now hear. I will recite but a part of his heavenly talk, though the whole make wholly for our purpose. Although (saith this holy doctor) he that Christianly is hence in faith departed be hanged in the air, and his body unburied, yet after thy prayers made to God, stick not to light lamp and taper at his sepulchre: for these things be not only acceptable to God, but are rewarded. For the oil and wax be to him as an holocaust or a sacrifice to be consumed by fire, but that unbloody host is a propitiation and remission to the party. It may seem by his words, that when by occasion of punishment, or otherwise any person was unburied, yet there was made some hearse or monument where his friends lighted tapers, as they do at this day, and procured the holy Mass, which Athanasius calleth the Unbloody host or sacrifice, Hostia incruenta. to be celebrated in his behalf, for so I take that when he saith that a man being hung in the air may have tapers and Mass at his sepulchre: though some seek an other meaning, which may well stand too, and it skilleth not for our purpose: for so much is plain, that in Athanasius his days, the sacrifice was called and counted propitiatory even for the dead. But now a little afterward in the same oration, he instruteth us for the first authors and institutors of this usage in the unbloody sacrifice, The Apostles be the orderers of our sacrifice. and in the burials of Christian men. All these holy things (saith he) the Apostles of Christ, those heavenly preachers and scholars of our Lord, the first orderers of our sacrifice, charged to be observed in the memories and anniversaires of the departed: etc. he calleth the Apostles, Curatores Sacrificiorum, as you would say, men appointed to take ordre for all things pertaining to the solemn ministery of the great and high mystery. As in the Psalm, Psalm. 49. the spiritual governors are named. Ordinatores testamenti Dei super sacrificia: The provisors of God's testament touching the sacrifices. The residue of his holy words thou may find in Damascens oration of the departed, where he reciteth both the Gregory's of the Greek church, S. Denyse and S. Chrysostom too: which writers do rather serve my turn now then the Latins, because they may put us out of doubt for the usage of the Greek, and other Churches, The end of schism. which afterward by schism fell together from the true worship of God into divers errors. That we may know, those same countries under the government of these excellent blessed men, to have observed the same things, which to their own eternal misery, and decay of their Church and countries, they afterward contemned. For their dissension and division both in this point & others of no less importance, hath procured God's vengeance so much, that now they have almost no Church at all: as we may have right good cause to fear what will become of us, that follow their steps in such points, as in them have duly deserved Gods grievous plaques. 4 When you name Athanasius, and think we should be so sore afraid of his name, you have good reason, for you allege nothing else of him but his name. I have often told you, Damascens report, either for his corrupt judgement, or his cracked credit is nothing regarded of us. And even the authority of Athanasius without the word of God, is the authority of God. And as Augustine saith of Cyprian, we count not all his writing for canonical Scriptures, but we judge them by the canonical Scriptures. The creed commonly called Athanasius creed, although it be very godly and agreeable to the holy Scriptures, yet by the judgement of the best learned, was complied by some later writer, than Athanasius. As for the plague of the Greek Church, which M. Allen judgeth to have fallen upon them, for their departing from the Church of Rome, he judgeth both falsely and unreasonably. For what schism was the Church of Africa first plagued by the Vandals, that were Arians, and afterward utterly subverted by the Saracens? I doubt not but justly, for their sins, but not for leaving the Romish Church. 5 Amongst other, for that chrysostom's authority is exceeding grave, I will let you see his opinion for the institution of these beneficial relievinge of the departeds pain. These be his words: Let us sieke out all means whereby we may best help our brethren departed, let us for their sakes bestow the most present remedy, that is to say alms and oblation: for thereby to them ensueth great commodity, gain and profit: for it was not rashly nor without great cause provided, and to God's Church by his disciples full of wisdom delivered, and decried, that in the dreadful mysteries there should be especial prayers made by the priest for all those that sleep in faith. For it is a singular benefit to them. These were chrysostom's words, whereby not only the truth of the cause and first authors of the practice be opened, but that there is wonderful benefit to the parties for whom prayers be so made in the holy sacrifice. The which thing our forefathers well knew, when they were so earnest after their departure to have a memory at the holy altar. Now adays heresy hath cankered even the very devotion of Catholics, who although they think it to be true that God's Church teacheth herein, yet the zeal of procuring these means is nothing so great as the importance of the cause requireth. But if they note well those careful admonitions of all these blessed fathers, they shall perceive that every time that Christ's holy blood is represented unto God in the Mass for the departed, they feel a present benefit and release of their pains: they do rejoice (saith holy Athanasius) when the unbloody host, is offered for them. The old fathers to put a difference betwixt the sacrificing of Christ's own body upon the cross, Qu●st. 34. ad Antioch. and the same upon the altar in the Church, do lightly term this way of offering, the unbloody sacrifice: and the thing offered, which is Christ's own blessed body, they call likewise the host unbloody. And Chrysostome never putting any doubt of the first authors of offering for the dead, proveth that it is exceeding beneficial to the deceased, because the Apostles full of God's spirit and wisdom, would else never with such care have commanded this holy action to be done for them. A lass a lass fo● our dear friends departed, that they must lack this comfort: But woe everlasting to them that are the cause of so much misery. 5 Chrysostome can no more prove, that prayer for the dead came from the Apostles, than Tertullian could prove that oblation for the dead came from them. To detest fasting on Sunday, and to pray kneeling, with diverse like superstitions, Tertullian referreth to the Apostles, as well as prayer for the dead, deny one and doubt of all the rest. And whereas M. Allen upon contemplation of Chrysostome words, falleth into a hidden agony, & crieth alas alas, if he would consider what the same man writeth upon the Epistle to the Philip. Hom. 3. he would not make so great moan, the loss is not so great, Procuremus eyes aliquid auxilij, modici quidem, attamen iuuemus eos. Let us procure them some help, in deed but small help, yet let us help them. Lo (M. Allen) your own doctor confesseth it is but small help that can be procured by prayers, alms, or remembrance of them at the celebration of the holy mysteries. You will say that soon after he saith the Apostles that instituted such memory, knew that much commodity came to the dead. Then see how soon he forgetteth himself, when he followeth not the rule of holy Scripture. Again how like you M. Allen that he alloweth not prayers nor the said memory to help them that were Catechumeni, which were learning their catechism, and died before they were baptized? S. Ambrose you say cap. 9 of this book did pray and offer for Gratianus which was but Catechumenus and died before he was baptized. Again how agreeth this with your catholic doctrine which you boast is so well ordered to your hands, that Chrysostome denieth them prayers, and alloweth them alms for their help? Catechumenos verò neque isto solatio dignamur, sed omni huiusmodi destituti sunt auxilio, uno quodam dempto, quo nam illo? pauperibus illorum nomine dare licet, unde illis non nihil refrigerij accedet. As for them that be Catechumeni we count them not worthy of so much as this comfort, but they be destitute of all such aid, except one. What one is that? we may give some thing for their sake to the poor, whereof some refreshing shall come unto them. 6 But hear I pray you what notable words S. Damascen hath for the utility and institution of these things. The holy Apostles and disciples (saith he) of our Saviour Christ have decried, Ibidem. that in the dread sovereign, undefiled, and lively Sacraments (●o he calleth the Mass) there should be kept a memorial of those that have taken their sleep in faith: the which ordinance, until this day without gainsaying or controlling, the apostolic and Catholic Church of God, from one cost of the wide world to an other, hath observed, and shall religiously keep till the world have an end. For doubtless, these things that the Christian religion which is without error, & free from falsehood, hath so many ages and worlds continued unviolably not without urgent cause, those things (I say) are not vain, but profitable to man, acceptable to God, and very necessary for our salvation. Thus far spoke the doctor, setting forth not only his own mind, but the faith of a numbered of the peers of God's Church: wherein to prove this doctrine to be catholic, he fitly followeth the same way which Vincentius Lyrinensis gave us once for a rule to try truth by. The rule of truth. Proving that it hath antiquity, as a thing that came and hath continued even from the beginning of the Christian religion: declaring that it hath the consent of all nations, because it is and hath been practised through out all the costs and corners of the wide world: and last, that it hath the approbation of the wisest and holyestmen that ever were in the Church of Christ. And more than all this, that it shall so continued till the end (though it be for a time in some peculiar nations omitted) because it is received into a part of that worship of God, which in the Church can not perish. 6 As for Damascene, I know not wherefore his authority serveth, but to fill up the number, for neither is his credit nor his antiquity comparable with the former, we refuse not the rule of Vincentius Lyrinensis, concerning antiquity, so you can prove that it hath God to be the author, the Prophets and Apostles. As for witness under this antiquity, that which had an erroneous beginning shall have a shameful ending. 7 And this prescription of truth our adversaries can not avoid, but with such unseemly dealing as I trust they themselves now be ashamed of, as all other reasonable men are. For now let them come with brazen fancies and blasphemous tongues, and say that prayers for the dead be unprofitable, that the rites of the burial be superstitious, that to say the Mass and sacrifice to be propitiatory for the souls departed, is injurious to Christ's death, that the doctors praised the errors of the ignorant people of their days, that they all erred and were deceived, that the Church of Christ hath been led in dark ignorance till these our days: let them bestow these vain presumptuous words where they may take place, for now all wise men do perceive that all these have their holy institution by Christ and his Apostles, practised universally in the primitive Church, embraced of all godly people, and approved to be wholly consonant to God's word by the pillars of Christ's Church: who so consonantly agreed together in this point, as well for the practice and proof, as for the beginning thereof, that to descent from them and trust in these reeds of our days were mere madness, that are puffed to and fro with every blast of doctrine, that care not what they say, so that they say not as other their forefathers said, that had rather than they would give over a singular opinion of their own imagination, refuse and deny the authority of so many notable, wise, ancient, godly, and well learned fathers, whom we have named. Although we have left out many of no worse judgement, plainly avouching these things to come into Christ's Church, and worship, by the ordinance of his holy Apostles. All which things if our adversaries have read, than they are in a most miserable and heavy taking, that do withstand an open known truth, and as I fear against their own consciences too. Or if they have not read these plain assertions of all learned men sith Christ's time, Heretics do against their own consciences than they are most impudent that so vainly brag in a matter whereof they are not skilful. But I trust God will open their eyes, and break their proud hearts to the obedience of his holy Church. 7 Nay M. Allen, your prescription is not yet proved, that this gear came from Christ and the Apostles. The oldest witness, that you have alleged, fathered manifest fables upon the institution of Christ, & the Apostles, as you yourself can not deny, if you have any conscience at all, and therefore not sufficient to be credited for that you allege him. Wherefore you may bestow where you list these swelling brags, of Christ's institution, the Apostles tradition, the universal practice of the primitive Church. And what so ever great words beside you have strained your lungs, to pronounce, you have said nothing for oblation or prayer for the dead, to be the institution of Christ, and all this gear, but I may say the same for the drinking of milk and honey after baptism, for not fasting on Sunday▪ or prayer on knees, &c: by like universality, antiquity, consent, authority. 8 If the authors be past hope, yet their followers shall take goodly occasion to forsake such wicked masters, and be ashamed of all their undecent dealing, if they note and consider with me, that the first preachers of this perverse opinion, were such, that none of all their scholars durst ever for shame for the proof of their assertion, name their own doctors. Note. And truly a man might well marvel why heretics having some that did plainly profess their opinions, had yet rather pick out some dark sentence of any one of our holy fathers, whom they know to be directly against them, than out of those same doctors of their own, which in express words make for them. You shall not lightly hear an heretic that denieth praying to saints, or holdeth with open breach of holy vows, allege iovinianus, or Vigilantius. Nor a sacramentary, seek for the authority of Berengarius, or Wicleffe, though they be of some antiquity, and without colour plainly do maintain the doctrine that so well liketh them. But they will travel to writhe with plain injury to the author, Note the guile of an heretic. some sentence out of Augustine, or Ambrose, or some other that by their whole life and practice open themselves to the world to believe the contrary: and all this by some show of words for the bearing of their false assertions. Mark it well (I say) in heretics that they can not for shame of themselves, Note. ever name any of the plain avouchers of their own opinions. The cause is, that the only upholding of their opinions made them infamous to the whole posterity: And if any honour grew unto them amongst the simple, because they lacked not the ways to procure the people's consent, with admiration of their eloquence, or other plausible and populare qualities in their days, yet truth following time, their same raised upon so light causes easily decayed, and the ground of perpetual infamy sattled in wise men's hearts by the wickedness of their attempts, remained for a testimony to all posterity of their shame and ignominy. And this I speak not only of the authors of our common sects, for they never attained to any shade of famous report in their days, because they could deceive none but simple women, but I mean by Arius himself, and Pelagius with the like, who in their own time being of great esteem amongst many whom they deceived, yet after their death more & more they grew to shame and infamy: so far, that who so ever were of their opinions afterward, durst not yet for shame use their name or authority for proof of their own doctrine. See you not in our days how fresh the name of Luther, Caluin, Bucer with that rabble, was amongst the rude people, whom they had won either with speech, or pleasure of licentious doctrine: and lo now it decayeth in a manner or their bones be could. The people's sensies raveshed with the present pleasure of such as they heard last, like them so long as they hear them, afterward their memory remaineth only to malediction. Psal. 36. Vidi impium superexaltatum & elevatum sicut Cedros Libani, transivi & ecce non est: quaesivi & non est inventus locus eius. I have seen the wicked exalted and set up as the cedar trees of Libanus, I passed by, and lo out of hand he is no body: I sought him, and his abiding can not be found. Who so ever shall seek for our glorious preachers with in this C. year, he shall find them in such estimation then, as their forefathers be now: that is to say, to be unworthy the naming of their own adherents, if any of that sect live and last so long. For let them never look to come to the infamous fame of Arrius, the best of all these sect masters not worthy to be scholar to a hundredth of his followers. Thus lo is the case of heretics, liked of fools when they be alieve, contemned of all men when they are dead. 8 M. Allen marveleth and giveth a special note, that we name not jovinian, Vigilantius, Berengarius or Wickleffe to be the authors of our doctrine but rather hung upon some sentence of Augustine or Ambrose, and thinketh we are ashamed of the other. In deed if we depended upon any men's authority, or that any man or men were the authors of our faith as it fareth with the popish faith, we should be injurious unto them if we did not acknowledge our founders, as they do some of theirs. But seeing God himself is the father of that doctrine, which we have received by his holy word, we neither boast upon Augustine, nor Ambrose when they descent therefrom, neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Beringarius, when they agreed therewith. We refuse not the truth that Tertullian & Origin have taught, because they taught heresies also, neither do we receive the errors of Cyprian & Augustin, because they taught many points of true faith. Only the canonical Scriptures are the rule, by which we judge of all men and their writings, of all doctrine and the teachers thereof. It is a ridiculous thing, that M. Allen like a cold Prophet, taketh upon him to tell what shall be thought of our preachers names, within these hundred years. But what so ever he prateth, the memory of the righteous shall remain for ever, neither shall they be afraid of any evil report, their names are written in the book of life which are ordained unto eternal glory, howso ever they be accounted of by the wicked of this world. And yet there is no cause, why we should not think that the names and writings of Luther, Caluine and Bucer, shall remain in good account with God's Church even until they themselves shall come with Christ, to judge the world when in the mean time Eccius, Pighius, Cocleus, and such other shall not be remembered, but as obstinate withstanders of the truth and enemies of the Gospel. 9 Now in the doctors of God's Church it is clean contrary, and no less worthy to be noted for our purpose, for their honour and estimation rising upon the sure unfallible ground of God's truth, by years and time gathereth such force, that not only their memory is in perpetual benediction before God, but their works follow them in the minds of their posterity, to their own eternal praise, and benefit of all their followers. And which is much more to be woundered at, they have so passed envy and malice of man, that even those which deadly hate them, dare not but praise them. And such as mislike their doctrine, and know of their own conscience that they be directly against them, yet dare not openly charge them with falsehood, as they do us their scholars, but rather (as I said) seek some sentence out of them to help their own cause, then with their plain condemnation of falsehood to refuse their authority. S. Augustine busied much with the Pelagians: and charged by them in disputation that he defended the Manicheis doctrine concerning original sin, for his defence and warrant, proveth unto them that S. Ambrose taught the same doctrine that he did, and yet they durst not be so bold to call him a Manichie. Lib. 2. contra julian. Dic huic Ambrosio si audes, quae mihi tam petulanter obiectas: Thou heretic (sayeth he) say the same by S. Ambrose, if thou dare for shame which thou so saucily and wanton objects to me. Look I pray you, Ambrose was but new dead when his only name did fear the heretic, Lib. 2. contra julian. when other alive of as good learning, was contemned of him, and by words of reproach charged with the Manicheis sect, who was a wicked man of horrible sects not long before those days. Pelagius out of doubt thought no better of Ambrose and Cyprian dead, than he did of Augustine and Innocentius a live, because their doctrine was all one: but yet the men departed were of more authority in God's Church, than the living: of whose continuance to the end men were uncertain before the proof thereof: and their words being dead might easily be wrested to some show of their purpose, when the authority of the living could not admit any such false dealing, themselves bearing witness of the meaning of their own words. Well then our doctors of God's Church, being all of holy estimation and blessed memory, do so dase the eyes even of their own adversaries, that being of the very same doctrine that we (who by God's grace be members of the Catholic Church) be of, yet they are passed the malice of those which like not their doing and doctrine. For the heretics well knowing them to be the authors, or at the lest especial maintainers of this our assertion of the value of prayers and the holy sacrifice for the departed, yet they dare not but clokedly reprehend them, when they flow against the poor Catholics now alive, with words of infinite blasphemy, and slanderous reproach. Therefore I now will call upon them with S. Augustine's words. Come on all the pack of you, who so ever is the proudest Protestant upon the earth, call if he dare S. Denyse, S. Clement, Athanas. Chrysostom, Ambrose, Gregory, Bede, we are not ashamed of their names as you be of your Masters, Call these Papists for praying for their friends, call them Idolaters, call them superstitious, call them enemies of Christ's passion: say they be injurious to his death by providing a new sacrifice for sin: tell them they invented anniversaries, months minds, and yearly offerings, for their own gain: call them mass mungers, call them blind guides. Not you dare not for your ears, you dare not dispraise our heavenly guides: you dare not once name your own. 9 M. Allen sta●●our wisdom, there is no man will grant you that the doctors of God's Church Augustine, Ambrose, Chrysostom, Basill, etc. are all together yours, because they have allowed some one or two things that you do, and have condemned the whole substance and principal grounds of your religion. Nay rather count upon the Popes to be the pillars of your Church, doctors of your learning, and fathers of your faith, that have been within these seven, or eight hundredth years, and see whether we might not with more honesty, brag of jovinian and Vigilantius, than you in your conscience, can glory in a whole hundredth of them almost. And whereas you babble of Augustine and the Pelagians, if you were posed to answer upon your conscience: do you defend Gods eternal predestination with Augustine, rather than free will with Pelagius? the only grace of God to be the whole cause of man's salvation as Augustine doth? or the merits of works as the Pelagians do? And whereas you allege that saying of Augustine, dic huic Ambrosio, etc. to prove that Ambrose may not be gain said, what so ever he writ, you shall hear what Augustine himself saith of the same Ambrose, when he was pressed with his authority by the Pelagians, as though he defended free-will in his book de gratia Christi contra Pelagium, cap. 43. Beatus inquit Ambrose Episcopus in cuius praecipuè libris Romana elucet fides, qui scriptorum inter Latino's flos quidem enituit, cuius fidem & purissimum in Scriptures sensum, ne inimicus quidem ausus est reprehendere. Ecce qualibus & quantis praedicat laudibus quamlibet sanctum & doctum, nequaquam tamen authoritati Scripturae canonicae comparandum. Blessed Ambrose (saith the Pelagian) that Bishop in whose books specially, the Roman faith doth shine, which glistered as a certain flower among the Latin writers, whose faith and most pure sense in the Scriptures, not not his enemy durst reprehend, etc. Behold (saith Augustine) with what & how great praises he extolleth him, which though he be never so holy and well learned, yet is he not to be compared with the authority of the canonical Scriptures. Lo here the authority of Ambrose, or any man. And by the way note here the heretical brag of the Roman faith. Finally where you stand forth, like a peevish quarrel picker to dare us with S. Augustine's words, we may well say unto you, as to such a busy body: good fellow thou makest more a do than thou needest, here is no man disposed to strive with Clemens, Dionysius, Athanasius, Chrysostome, nor Augustine, if they have spoken any thing that helpeth the matter, bring it forth where due trial may be had, in the mean time, brag of them as much as thou wilt, thou shalt never be able to prove, that of 20. errors which thou defendest, they did hold one. If they have spoken otherwise then truth in any matter, they must be told of it as well as other men. But thou must not think, that for one error common with them, thou must hold an 100 contrary to them. Thou dost them wrong, to make them thy partakers, as thou shalt well know when the trial cometh, therefore quiet thyself, and talk of thine own mates, as for those men, thou hast little to do with them, nor they with thee, but for slandering of them to be altogether on thy side. 10 Such force hath the truth, and such fear there is in falsehood: and yet these doctors must needs be in a thousand times worse case than we be, if the doctrine of purgatory and prayers be not true. We may be saved or at lest reasonably excused, by following: they in leading us in falsehood, can have no excuse of their impiety. But how glad may all we Catholics be in our hearts, that have the full consent of all them in the proof of our believe, out of whose works the adversaries would be glad of one likely sentence. And whose life and doctrine are so glorious in God's Church, that their own adversaries raling at us alive, yet dare not but with great fear once blemish their names departed: Though sometimes it brastithe out in some one of them to their own miscredit. So beautiful is the light of truth. And on the other side, how miserable is their careful case that follow and defend that doctrine, the authors whereof they dare neither acknowledge nor name: whom all good men with open mouth boldly do reprehend, and their own scholars dare not defend. Such a glorious majesty this doctrine of theirs beareth, that pricketh up with pride those that be alive, and blotteth out of honest memory, her doctors that be dead. 10 Nay M. Allen, though those doctors build some hay or stubble, upon the only foundation Christ, their case is ten thousand times better than yours, which build nothing but dirt and dung tempered with hay and stubble upon no foundation at all except it be the sand, and seek by all means to dig up the only true foundation of our faith jesus Christ, making him nothing better than a common person: except his bore name: and woe may be to such Catholics, as can find nothing but hay and stubble, where such store of precious matter is, and the most precious corner stone the foundation of all excellency. And happy be those, which not regarding the streams of waters, that run through the veins of earth, but seeking to the only fountain of heavenly truth, contained in the holy scriptures, have certain comfort of salvation while they are alive, and sure possession of felicity with Christ, as soon as they are dead, yea which die not at all, because they believe in Christ which is life, nor enter into judgement, but pass from death of this body, which is temporal, unto life of body and soul which is eternal. The first Author of that sect which denieth prayers for the departed is noted, his good conditions and cause of his error be opened, what kind of men have been most bend in all ages to that sect. And that this heresy is ever joined as a fit companion to other horrible sects. CAP. XIIII. 1 But yet, because they have defamed our practice in praying and offering for the dead, by referring it to a later origine than the apostolic authority and tradition, seeing we have fathered our usage upon such as the adversaries dare not blame, we will help them to seek out the fathers of their faithless persuasion, jest by the fear and bashfulness of their own scholars, they be unkindly forgotten. Marry to find out these obscure loiterers it will be somewhat painful, because as thieves do, they keep by ways: and lightly tread not in honest men's paths. For the finding out of records for the testimony of our truth, we kept the day light, the high way of God's Church. All the known notable personages, in the holy City of God offered themselves both to witness, and prove with us. We drove this truth from our days through the midst of that holy community which S. Augustine calleth the City of God: and our adversaries will not say otherwise but they were the lively members of that happy and heavenly fellowship. We brought the practice of it to the holy Apostles by plain account, we went with the truth of our cause to the law of Moses, The high way of truth. from thence by like light to the law of nature. But now for the other sort, we must leave the city of God and the fellowship of these noble personages, of doctors, Apostles, Prophets, and patriarchs, and seek on the lift hand in the other city, which is of Augustine named the city or common wealth, as a man might call it of the devil: in which body, all practice of mischief and origin of error, ishuing from that unhappy head to the corrupt and deadly limbs thereof, is to be found. We shall hear of the adversary persuasion then, in the company of anabaptists, The by way of heresy. of Arrians, of saducees, of Epicures: where so ever the weeds of the common enemies corrupt seed groweth, there shall we found amongst breares and brambles, this choking weed with all. For as the true preachers, the Apostles of Christ jesus, did sow in the beginning of the Christian church, which was the springe of the word of life and truth, amongst other heavenly seeds of true doctrine, that profitable practice for the relief of such, as were hence departed in the sleep of peace, with the decent ordre which ever sithence the Catholic Church hath obediently followed, Math. 13. even so, Inimicus homo superseminavit zizania: the common enemy came afterward and oversewe darnel, and cockle, either for the utter choking, or else for the especial let of that good seed, which the Master of this field by his household servants had plentifully sown before. This common adversary, as our master himself expoundeth it, is the Devil: who, as he in all other things beneficial to mankind is a great stay, so Christian men's commodity in this point he notably hindereth by his wicked suggestions and devilish devise, whereby he provoketh many under the show of God's word or bore name thereof (for that is the lambs coat which this wyely wolf borroweth to mask in) to be unkind, unnatural, and with out all godly affection towards their departed friends. The which contrary corrupt seed of false doctrine we right well know came of the said adversary, because it was long after oversowen: learning further of Tertullian, Tertul. de prescript. Id verum esse quodcunque primum, id adulterinum quod posterius. That to be true that was first taught, and that to be false and forged, which came latter. CAP. XIIII. 1 WHen the apostolic writing, can not be showed, it is but the point of an heretic to boast of apostolic tradition. So did the Valentinians, although their heresy were new, when they were confuted by the Scriptures, shrow themselves under the name of traditions, as we have showed before, out of Irenaeus lib. 3. ca 2. And therefore it is but vain bragging, that you promise' to seek out any other fathers of our persuasion, than the Apostles of Christ, by whose holy writings, we never refuse to be judged. what if any heretic have affirmed some thing, that is true? is truth worse in an heretics mouth? The devils them selves confessed Christ. Their confession was true, their testimony was refused. So if any heretic have confessed the truth, we may receive the truth and yet reject his testimony. For truth hath testimony of God his word and whether it be affirmed or denied by the devil, it is all one. The high way that you prate of, is a buy way, for the Scripture is the only high way to the truth, with the guidance of God's spirit. And yet that way which you have taken, hath so many hills and holes, woods and thickets, that you have rather flyen over it in a dream and imagination, then travailed through it in deed when you walked through the city of God, which Augustine describeth. I marvel you could not see the western Babylon, Rome, to be the city or common wealth of the devil. lib. 16. cap. 17. lib. 18. cap. 21. cap. 22. cap. 27. The mother of all abominations of the earth, which either invented or tempered of other's invention that golden cup full of abominations & uncleanness of her whoredoms, with which she made drunken all the Kings of the earth. And therefore that we can not read out of the word of God, we shall hear of Purgatory, among the Pagans, Carpocratianes', Heracleonites, and montanists, of whose heresies and pestilent practices, the whore of Babylon hath patched up her purgatory and sacrifices for the dead, as by and by I shall declare. In deed the envious man the devil, hath sowed these wicked sect masters. And that doctrine which is first, agreeable to tertullian's rule is undoubtedly true, and that which is later is false. But how shall the first doctrine be known but by the word of God, wherein all the doctrine of God is taught. But by the holy Scriptures, which are able to make the man of God perfect and prepared to all good works. And seeing, praying, and offering for the dead as Tertullian himself confesseth, is not taught by the Scriptures, it is no good work whereto the man of God should be prepared. And for as much as you have given me example of a syllogism in Baroco in the last chapter, I will frame you the like now. All good works are taught by the Scriptures, oblations for the dead are not taught by the Scriptures, therefore oblations for the dead are no good works. The mayor is S. Paul. 2. Timot. 3 The minor is tertullian's de corona militis. Deny the conclusion if you dare. 2 And yet besides that general and most certain instruction, learned Damascen, helpeth us to the trial of this peculiar case. Doubting not to affirm, that all such cogitations as do entre into man's head against the prayers or charitable works for the departed, be the devils envious and subtle suggestions, for the hindrance of our brethren departed from the heavenly joys. For thus he writeth in a sermon for the same purpose. That old serpent (sayeth he) whose endeavour is to corrupt and deface the good and acceptable works of God, & to lay snares for the entrapping of men's souls, who is much pierced through brotherly love, and brasteth in sunder for the envy that he beareth towards our faith, and finally is madded by our natural compassion one towards an other, as one that is the utter renouncer of all good laws, he inspireth to some a feigned and false imagination clean contrary to the holy constitutions: that is to say, that all good and acceptable works, before God, should no whit profit the departed souls. If this writer's judgement be good, as it is sure most sound, Our Protestants be inspired by Damascens judgement. then must all our unnatural and unkind preachers have an especial inspiration of the devil himself, so often as they hinder favour and grace from the dead. For as he reduced our origin to the Apostles, so he doubteth not to avouch, the contrary persuasion to be evidently moved by the old serpent, of especial envy towards man's salvation. And now if thou list know in whom this subtle suggestion took first place and root, Of the author of this new sects. after the long usage of the other, according to the Apostles planting: we shall make thee for thy especial comfort partaker thereof also. We will not use the adversaries, as they do us: charging us with later preaching or doctrine then the Apostles planted, & yet can neither tell, where, nor by whom it began. But we shall by open evidence call the wolf by his name. Let an heretic but set out foot, and once open mouth, though he do no harm at all, yet the watchman of Israel hath him by the back strait. The dogs were never so dumb in God's Church, but they would bark at the first appearance of any strange cattle. For that, the notation of his arising and name, was not only a warning to the present time to take heed to their faith, but an admonition to all the posterity to beware of the like. And it was ever counted a refutation of an heresy to the full, to reduce it to a latter infamous author, by the certain record of the Church's history. The which kind of reason both amongst the learned hath singular strength, and is sensible for the people, and of the adversary utterly invincible. Irenaeus useth it against the heresies of his time, as a demonstration of much force. What, saith he, before Valentinus there was none of that his false sect, Lib. 3. cap. 4. and he came in with his seed, after the first preaching of our faith a good while. I can tell when he began, how he increased, how long he continued. The trial of false preachers. Both he and that other Cerdon entered first under the government of Hyginius, grew upward under Pius, and continued till Anicetus time: and so making the like account of other arch-heretics, at length thus he concludeth: all these rose up in their apostasy long after that the Church was ordered in faith and doctrine. In this sense spoke Irenaeus. 2 Damascene your doctor, which knew the depth of Satan so well, should first have reproved that persuasion by Scripture, and then it had been easy to have found out the policy of the devil. But when we learn by Scripture, that your doctrine is contrary to the faith, and hope of Christians, it is not hard to judge, that the devil invented it, under colour of charity to overthrow faith, and under show of help of men, to dishonour God. You spend many words in vain, to prove that the first author of an opinion being found, the opinion is found to be an heresy. It shall be granted with all favour, but so that no man shall be counted the first author of an opinion, that is able to prove his opinion out of the word of God. And withal, that who so ever is not able to prove by the word of God, any opinion that he holdeth obstinately, though he have many authors before him yet is he nevertheless an heretic. 3 But the rule is common and certain as any can be in the world, and I would stand upon the ground thereof against all false doctrine in the world, A general rule to know heresy by. and thus it is: Any opinion, that may be truly fathered upon any private man, that was long after the truth was first preached by the Apostles, if it be upon a point of our faith, and contentiously maintained, it is an heresy. And thus again: who so ever was withstand in his first arising and preaching, by such as were in the unity of the Church, he was a false teacher, and his abettors be heretics. And the force of this conclusion is so great, that the heretics themselves if they can get any likely show of raising of any doctrine, or practise of God's Church in these latter days, they think they have a good argument against the Catholics. Therefore they would father transubstantiation upon this Council, the adoration of the Sacrament upon that Pope, indulgencies upon that bishop, etc. For they be as saulcie with God's Church, councils, & chief governors, as we be with the jacke straws of Geneva. And yet when they have travaled to their hearts ache, they can find no one thing first invented by any of them, whom they falsely name to be the authors thereof. But well seeing it is so strong an argument of heresy, to have the offspring of a later author, with plain provisò of God's Church for his marking, let us add so much strength to our cause, to have the father of the contrary falsehood known, and noted of the antiquity, by his name. 3 If you have not a better understander, than you are a rule giver, your rule is false, for though you hedge it in with many conditions, yet you leave out the chiefest, which is that the opinion itself be contrary to the truth, first preached by the Apostles, or else it is no heresy, though it may be truly fathered upon any man private or public, sooner or later. And here I muse why you put in the condition of a private man: belike if the Pope invent a new doctrine, because he is a public person that can not err, it must not be taken for heresy. In your second rule, except you understand that the opinion of him which is withstanded, be new and of his own invention, the withstanding thereof, not not by good men, maketh it not false. They that defended that heretics should not be rebaptized, were withstood by Cyprian and all the Bishops of Africa (who were notwithstanding their error in the unity of the Church) yet were they not heretics nor their opinion heresy, because it was not of their invention but of the word of God. And whereas you affirm, that we can not found any of those things invented by them by whom we say they were invented, though we travail until our hearts ache: I answer though you seek until your head ache & lie until you have worn your tongue to the stumps, you shall neither find those things in the word of God, nor to have any other authors, than the writers of your own sect have named to be the fathers of most of them. And that you charge us with like sauciness towards your Prelates, that you use toward the jacke straws of Geneva, if you had not thereby confessed yourself to be a saucy jacke, you might have given us occasion to think no less of you. For although perhaps you count the chief teachers of that Church for jacke straws, yet the world can testify, that there is more gravity and modesty in the lightest persons of all that Church, then hath appeared of many Popes and Cardinals of your Church of Rome. Cap. 75. li. 3. In Anacephal. 4 Epiphanius that notable man in his book that he wrote for the confutation of all the heresies that were before his time, and in other of his works too, nameth an obscure fellow one Aërius to be the first author of this heresy, that prayers and sacrifice profiteth not the departed in Christ. But what manner a fellow he was, and how lickely to be the founder of such a school, thou shalt perceive best by the writer's words. When Aërius could not obtain the bishopric of Eustathius deposed, after that he was once perfectly well skilled in Arius doctrine, he invented new sects of his own: affirming that there should be no offering for the departed, and of him lo the scholars were called Aërians. Let not the simple (whom I would help in this cause) be deceived by the likeness of these two names, Arius: and Aërius: Arius. Aërius. for this later was the author of their sect, and was a follower of the first called Arius in his doctrine beside. And of the same sect and sectmaister, S. Augustine thus sayeth, following Epiphanius: The Aërians were so named by one Aërius, In lib. de haeres. ad Quod vult. who taking snoffe that he could not get a bishopric, fell into the heresy of Arius first: and then added thereunto, other heresies of his own making: saying that we should not offer sacrifice for the dead, nor obserûe the solemn appointed fasts of the Church, but that every man should abstain when he list. And there both he and Epiphanius do reckon more of his holy opinions, which I omit. For it is enough for our purpose, and to confunde all the heretics of our days, that this opinion was noted as it sprung up in the primitive Church for heresy, One that hath forsaken the Church is indifferent to what heresy you will. and the authors not only condemned as heretics in that point, but in many other things beside. For I never read of, nor yet knew any heretic, but if he once mistrusted the catholic Church, the Devil was able to persuade with him as well in a numbered of matters as in one. And that is the cause that any man seduced, falleth from one falsehood to an other, till he wholly be drowned in the waves of tempestuous doctrine. And therefore they call their doings, proceeding. prover. 18. And when he cometh once at the bottom, than (God knoweth) he setteth light by the matter, contemneth it, and is often past recovery, as it is said: Peccator cum in profundum venerit, contemnit. Even so did this Aërius, first through ambitious pride fall to the Arians sect, but because he counted it nothing glorious to be a scholar, he would be a master, and that of a mishevous matter, and a matter repugnant to the sense of all Christ's Church, which before his preaching, generally as after, received and faithfully used prayers and oblation for the dead. Of which consent of the universal world, and the heretics folly in withstanding the same, the said Epiphanius sayeth thus: I will report his words in Latin, because they sound very well, though himself wrote not in that language: Assumpsit ecclesia in toto mundo, Vbi sup. 13. assensus est factus antequàm esset Aërius, & qui ab ipso appellantur Aëriani: quis autem magis de his novit, hic ne seductus homo qui etiam superest nunc, an qui ante nos testes fuerunt? etc. Thus in English. The Church hath received this truth through the wide world, it was sattled in all men's minds before Aërius was borne, or any of his sect that be now called Aërians. And who I pray you is most like to know the truth of these things, this false wretch yet living at this day, or else the faithful witnesses that were before our time? Behold here you worshipful master▪ you may surely take great cause of comfort in his lively word: marry Sir he might have been an Archbishop in our days, for he loved neither fasting nor praying. He was fain to be an heretic for anger, because he could not be made a bishop then, who now if he were in this happy age, when the light is more plentifully powered upon the people, might have been promoted at Caluins' decease to the overlooking of Geneva. But his opinion was so notorious false, that it grew to no great head at that time, or else it was not so much regarded because it was joined to that horrible falsehood of Arius, against the blessed Godhood of Christ jesus our Saviour. Note well. Every great waist of religion hath many false opinions knit together, amongst which one being as principal ground, shadoweth the other lesser branchies: as now the blasphemy of the holy Sacrificie and Sacrament being the fountain of their heresies, in a manner covereth the meaner puddells of their stinking doctrine. And amongst other, this unnatural affection of forbidding the relief of the parted, seemeth ever to be joined as an appendix to other falsehoods. For in holy Damascens days this sect appeared again with other false doctrine, Damascen in oration pro defunctis & de haeres. as a companion of all mischief. And to prove it to be an heresy, he seeketh out the first founder thereof, and findeth even as before, that under the devil this Aërius was the father of that faithless assertion. Whom he bayteth well favouredly in a whole oration and so drives the wolf in to the wood again. 4 Now at the length cometh the author of this heresy by the testimony of Epiphanius and Augustine. But neither of them confuteth it by the Scriptures, but by the common error of their time. I could prove out of Irenaeus and Epiphanius, that the first that brought in estimation the figure of the cross & images were the Valentinians & Carpocratianes'. But that is no answer to this matter, I have promised to prove that the opinion of purgatory, had the same original that the most notable heresies had. Tertullian though himself an heretic, yet truly describeth the original of heresies in his book de praescriptionibus adversus haereses. That as true doctrine was received from Christ by the Apostles, ●o heresy from the devil by Philosophers and gentiles. Also in his book de anima he showeth that all Philosophers which granted the immortality of the soul, as Pythagoras, Empedocles, and Plato, assigned 3. places for the souls departed, heaven, hell, and a third place of purifying. Carpocrates as Irenaeus doth testify, was a great admirer of Philosophy, in so much that with the imagies which he made of Christ, he joined the imagies of Pythagoras, Plato, and Aristotle. This heretic learning out of Plato his philosophy, that men's souls must be purified after their death, invented a kind of purgatory out of the opinion of Pythagoras, and proved it out of that place of S. Matthew. Thou shalt not come forth until thou hast paid the uttermost farthing, even as the Papists do Iren. lib. 1. ca 24. The Heracleonites as Augustine witnesseth, came yet a step more towards the Papists, for they would redeem their dead after a new manner, namely by oil, balm, water, and invocation said over their heads in the Hebrew tongue. But Montanus of whom Tertullian received his heresy, had in all points the opinion of the Papists. First that the patriarchs before Christ's coming were in hell, that Abraham's bosom was in hell, or in the lower parts (as M. Allen had rather speak) that only Martyrs and perfect men are privileged, of God to go into Paradise, that all small offences must be punished after this life, where the prison is & the uttermost farthing to be paid, witness of this is Tertullian in his book de anima. ca de inferis, etc. vlt. an aliquid patiantur animae apud inferos, etc. His words are these, after he hath proved that souls may suffer after their death. In summa, cum carcerem illum, quod evangelium demonstrate inferos intelligimus, & novissimum quadrantem modicum quodque delictum mora resurrectionis, illic luendum interpretamur, nemo dubitabit animam aliquid pensare penes inferos salva resurrectionis plenitudine, per carnem quoque. Hoc etiam Paracletus frequentissimè commendavit, si quis sermons eius ex agnitione promissorum charismatum admiserit. To conclude, when we do understand that prison which thing the Gospel showeth, to be hell, or the lower parts, and do expound that the uttermost farthing, which is every small fault, must there be punished with delay of resurrection, no man shall doubt, but that the soul in hell doth suffer something, saving the fullness of the resurrection by the flesh also. And this the comforter hath often times commended, if any man will admit his sayings, by acknowledging of the promised gracious gifts. By the comforter he meaneth the spirit of Montanus, whose heresy he defended. And therefore it is not otherwise to be thought, but that the montanists upon the ground of this opinion, not content with the oblations for the dead which the Church then had by perverse emulation of the Gentiles, and yet were but oblations of thanks giving, as they could be no other for the birth days, they added also prayers for the spirits of them that, were dead, whereof Tertullian maketh mention in his books de castitate & de Monogamia, which were both written to heretics of his sect, and by those prayers laboureth to prove, that second marriages are not lawful. Also in his book de anima before named, though for an other purpose, he rehearseth a miracle of a woman whom he knew of his sect (for none other he counted of the Church) which after she was dead and prepared to burial, by prayer of the Priests, at the first beginning of his prayer, she took up her hands from her sides, and held them up as they that use to pray, and when the office of burial was ended, laid them down again. This miracle I take to have been an illusion of Satan, to confirm that new opinion, that prayers profited the dead, as that also which he reporteth of hear say, of some of his sect, that when two bodies should be buried in one grave, the one lay further and made room for the other: which was no doubt a sleight of Satan, to commend the unity of heretics. And that the practice of the Church for oblations for the dead at the yearly day of their birth, were taken from the Gentiles, it appeareth by this, that Tertullian counteth them of all one origen with the oblations pro natalitijs, that is for the birth days. which Beatus Rhenanus a Papist, and a great antiquary, doth confess, affirming that by the canons of the Nicene council and other counsels, which he hath seen in libraries, those oblations pro natalitijs with other superstitions, that Tertullian fathereth upon tradition of the Apostles, were abrogated. And the oblations themselves, which were at burials, marriages, & birth days, he affirmeth were money that was offered in alms, to the relief of the poor. Origen to much a Philosopher was not content with Plato his purification, but he must bring in Plato's fire also, and that he would build as the papists do, and as he had better reason than the Papists have, out of the 1. Cor. 3. but because the Apostle said, that every man's work, should be tried by fire, he thought that all men should pass through his purgatory, & at length be saved. Afterwards when prayers for the dead were grown out of memories for the dead, which were without prayers in origen's time, as appeareth in his words in job. lib. 3. but kept with alms to the poor and rejoicing for their rest, about S. Augustine's time, the name of purgatory was first invented, by some mediatores and conciliatores of origen's error, with the erroneous practice of the church. And this was a great corruption of those ancient times, that they did not always weigh what was most agreeable to the word of God, but if the Gentiles or heretics had any thing that seemed to have a show of piety, or charity, they would draw it into use, with such correction as they thought was sufficient. So they took the sign of the cross from the Valentinians, oblations for the days of death and birth of the Gentiles, prescript times of fasting and unmeasurable extolling of sole life, in the ministers of the Church, from the Manichees, Tacianistes, and montanists: prayer for the dead of the montanists: purgatory fire of the Originestes, yea jeronym was almost fallen into the heresy of Tertullian in condemning 2. marriages: yea even the name of sacrifice which was commonly used for the celebration of the lords supper, they took up of the Gentiles. Finally it appeareth that the faithful in tertullian's time, which were not of his sect, believed not that the souls of Christians departed, came into his hell or lower parts, where he maketh so many mansions, but that they were placed in heaven where Christ is, against whom he reasoneth after his brawling and taunting manner, that he useth against the Catholics libro de anima, cap. de inferis. And they that so believe, allow no prayers for the dead. Wherefore it is left that Montanus and his followers were the first that taught prayers for the dead to be profitable, because that the souls of the faithful that were not made perfect by martyrdom or other straight penance, must pay the uttermost farthing in prison, and suffer the lest offences in the lower parts, if they were not holpen with prayers. Therefore Aerius was not the first that held our opinion but Montanus before him was the first that held your opinion thoroughly, against the Catholics of his time. Wherefore you are welcome home for heretics by your own rule. 5 Then for many a day together this doctrine was dashed till the time of holy S. Bernard and Petrus the reverent Abbate of Cluny, by which two notable housekeping dogs, that were never dumb in the Church's need, this wolf appearing once again was both noted and oppenly vanquished. Note well how this falsehood ever joineth itself to other horrible sects. And in their days, this falsehood that before was a companion of the Arrians (mark well the course of things good reader) was now matched with the anabaptists: who in that time, as the said writers do record, did call themselves Apostolici, that is to say Apostolic or followers of the Apostles, so they would be termed to delude the ignorant by the beauty of that glorious name, as now their offspring call themselves, Euangelici: that is to say, gospelers, and the pure preachers of the word, and gospel. S. Bernard touched them to the quick in a sermon, by these words, Lo (sayeth he) these miscreants, lo these dogs, they laugh us to scorn that we baptize infants, Sermon 66. supper cantic. that we pray for the dead, that we require the help of holy Saints, they exclude Christ's grace in all sorts and every kind, in old and young, in the live and in the dead. Look you now, with their Gospel like name they were counted no better than profane dogs of this holy father, that laughed so scornfully at Christ's Church for praying for the dead and invocation of Saints: and shall we make such jewels of their scholars now a days? In all ages since this wield seed was first sown, the true preachers, the workmen of God's harvest, have ever plucked it up, as it first appeared: The which weed was better knowene from the corn, because it ever grew amongst the bundles of briars and brambles, & was of that waisting nature, that it could not be tolerated without the utter choking of the wheat. 5 Barnard was but a late writer to speak of, and whether those that were called in his time Apostolici, were slandered for denying of baptism to infants when perhaps they denied only some of your popish ceremonies which you use, about baptism, I am not able to say, certain it is that the godly called pauperes de Lugduno & Waldenses, which were about that time, were slandered with many detestable opinions, which it is now well known that they never did hold. But how so ever it were, that which they affirmed of truth, must not be condemned because of that where in they erred: the Arrians were the first that added unto the Symbol the article of descending into Hell: shall we think worse of that article which is true, because of there heresy which is false? 6 This doctrine (I say) being of itself very pernicious, yet it is ever in company of other mischief. For the principal author of this sect was an Arian, than the followers as Bernard witnesseth, were anabaptists or worse. To whom all men much marvel that God should rather reveal such mysteries of truth, then to other that were sound in faith. And in deed I would gladly meet with some one good fellow or other of that sect, that were learned with all, that he might resolve me in this doubt, why this conclusion of not offering or praying for the dead, of not keeping the ordinary fasts, of contemning the Saints help in heaven, and the residue of your new Creed, why God (seeing all light of truth cometh of his grace) openeth these mysteries always and only, to such as you yourselves can not deny to be heretics. I trow no Protestant can answer with reason to thi● point. Why did he reveal in the primitive Church that doctrine to an Arian, being an open enemy of his holy name, and not to Athanasius or Epiphanius, or some other blessed men of that time? I stand the longer upon this point, that the world and who so ever is the simplest, may behold your misery and shame: for I know you can say nothing in this case for your defence, but even bear with black blotted consciencies the infamy of wilful blindness. How say you, did not your doctrine afterward appear again amongst wicked anabaptists, that deny amongst other things, the baptizing of infants? it was neither revealed to Bede nor Bernard I warrant you. Here this sect joineth with the sacramentariés and the rest of miscreaunts. But come lower yet to our own time: you know full well we have store of anabaptists, of Arians, of saducees, of Epicures, and of all other sects that the devil ever devised (such light of truth hath our happy age by your preaching) tell me truth now, be not all these whom you count heretics as well as we do, be they not all I say of your opinion in this matter and not one of them of our? 6 I may by the example of Christ answer one question with an other: why was it first revealed to the Arians in council holden against Christ? that the article of his descent into hell, was meet to be added to the creed and confession of faith, which was not revealed to so many godly men as set forth the Symbol, nor to the holy Nicene Council. Answer me if you can, or any Robin good fellow of your sect▪ learned or unlearned, is it any prejudice to the truth of that article? or to the right that it hath to be placed in the creed, that it was first added by the Arrians? why was the truth revealed to heretics concerning rebaptisation, rather than to Cyprian and so many catholic bishops? why was it revealed to the Pelagians, that infants might be saved without the participation of the sacrament of Christ's body and blood rather than unto S. Augustine, Innocentius bishop of Rome, and as Augustine sayeth all the catholic fathers of that time? which thought it was as necessary for them to receive the communion as to be baptized. If heretics should not affirm something that were true, they should never deceive any man. And sometime Satan affirmeth the truth, not because he will have it believed, but rather that proceeding out of his lying mouth it might the sooner be discredited. And therefore sometimes Arrians, Pelagians, anabaptists and such like, by the subtlety of Satan, have affirmed something that is true, either to win credit to their manifold lies, or else to drawn the credit of that truth, among so many errors. 7 Nay I will pose you further, is not your preaching the very ready way to all such extreme blasphemies, as they boldly maintain? did ever man fall from the Catholic Church to those further heresies than you yet openly profess, but he took yours by the way, as a plain passage to extreme infidelity? yea your opinions do so well stand with the other, that they need not afterward to refuse any one point of all your doctrine to maintain their own. There is no article of Catholic doctrine, but it is as much hated of them, as of yourselves. Help your selves here my masters, or else all the world will take you to be in your hearts, Mark well. of the same sects whereunto your faith is always so dearly joined. Put your heads together, and tell us why your doctrine is so dear to the Arians, & all wicked men, & so hated of the holy fathers of Christ's Church? If you frame not your answer well, you liese your credits, your scholars, and your honesties. Well, thus have I pointed out your author, his name was Aërius: you must be called Aërians: you may keep the name of Protestaunts or Evangelists beside. For a holy new calling is lightly joined to such men. Whereby though some simple be deceived, yet w●se men be warned. Or if the old authors of this sect be not so glorious as these new revivers, if they list and like so, they may call themselves Lutherans, or calvinists, or what they will, but Catholics. Although Martin Luther granted purgatory and prayers, with this error: that such as were there, might yet by their divers deservings, win or lose life everlasting, as men of doubtful state, as they were before in the world: plain against our saviours admonition, and careful warning, Vide Hiero nimum sup. 3. ad Galatas. joan. 9 veniet nox quando iam nullus operari potest. Work whiele the day lasteth, for the night shall come when no man can labour. But I need not to stand upon this point, which of neither part is much regarded. Neither will I spend any more time in getting them an author of their sect, seeing they have choice of divers. Let them go out of the City of God, from amongst the holy company, and turn on the lift hand, and look amongst the outcasts of all agies, and they shall have friends and fellows enough. 7 That you say of our preaching to be the way to so many heresies, might have been said of the Gentiles and jews, to the whole Church of Christians. The Gentiles continued constant, so did the jews without schism in their errors, when the professors of Christianity were rend and torn into an hundredth sects and heresies. There were no heretics but they hated jews, and Gentiles, as much as the true Christians, was therefore the religion of the jews and Gentiles better than the religion of the Christians? Yea there never was since Christ any heresy, or heretic, but they agreed in many more things, with the Christians then with the Gentiles and jews, was therefore the Christian religion false? or the Pagans and jews superstition true? It is therefore, no discredit of our doctrine, that Arrians or anabaptists of our time, either have any thing of yours, or praise any thing of ours. Neither our credit, scholars, nor honesty, are in danger for their errors, which they learned not of us: neither are your wit, learning, or heresy the greater, for uttering this foolish conceit, which no more toucheth us, or defendeth you, than it carpeth the religion of Christ and maintaineth the Idolatry of the heathen. The world seeth what vain reasons you lean unto, being destitute of the word of God. An heretic held this opinion, therefore it is, false. The devil believeth there is one God, therefore shall not Christian men believe so? why would God reveal any truth to heretics? why did the Pharizees, which otherwise were heretics, defend the resurrection of the dead? This vain froth of words, and smoke of foolish and unlearned questions, will even fall down and vanish away of itself, though it be not blown away by us. The latter end of this chapter, hath one crop of his old custom, to charge Luther with defending of Purgatory, which either was while he remained in ignorance, or else it is but a feigned fable, as many other of him and others are devised by the Papists: who as they err from the truth of God, so they delight in slandering of good men: but they shall not prevail, their madness is made known to all men. That their falsehood is condemned, and the Catholic truth approved by the authority of holy councils. Their pride in contemning, and the Catholics humility in obedient receiving the same. And a sleight whereby the heretics deceive the people, is detected. CAP. XU. 1 ANd for our part it is sufficient, good reader, that we know the first founder thereof, and that we be now right well assured, that he in his time, and his scholars in theirs, have been noted, called, and condemned for heretics, in this as in other fond perverse opinions beside, not only by the singular judgements of divers learned men, but by the common sense and consent of the world, and by ancient councils both general and particular, as we may read in the councils of Carthage the iiij. of Bracharense, and Vase. the Decrees of which, by occasion we rehearsed once before. Cap. 79. Cap. 34. Cap. 2. They are both ancient and of great authority, and honoured with the presence of many notable fathers, as Augustine and other. But especially for the approving of our faith, and condemnation of the adversaries part, the whole process of the great Council of Florence must be noted. for there the question of purgatory and prayers for the dead, was fully handled, by the most learned of both the Latin and Greek Church, the patriarch of Constantinople himself, with the Legates of Armenia and other nations of that part, being present: and fully condescending with the Roman Church upon the truth of purgatory, and other grave mysteries: into the doubt of which, that part of the Church by schism & miscredit of their forefathers, had fallen into, not long before: and so made perfect protestation of their faith, with the abjuring of the contrary, as heresy. Note. But omitting that long process and large treaty of the matter, for the establishing of every man's conscience, I will conclude up all the matter with the Council and the holy Ghosts determination of all the whole cause, in these words: Si verè poenitentes in Dei charitate decesserint, antequam dignis poenitentiae fructibus de commissis satisfecerint, & omissis, eorum animas poenis purgatorijs purgari, & ut à poenis huiusmodi releventur prodesse eyes vivorum fidelium suffragia, missarum scilicet sacrificia, orationes, In initio Concilij Florentini. & eleemosynas, & alia pietatis officia, quae a fidelibus pro alijs fidelibus fieri consueverunt, secundum ecclesiae instituta, We define and determine, The holy Council of Trent hath also determined the same against the heretics of our times. that true penitents departing in the favour of God, before they satisfied for their negligencies or faults committed by worthy fruits of penance, shall be cleansed by purgatory pains: and likewise for the release thereof, the prayers of the faithful, the sacrifice of the blessed Mass and alms, with other things customably practised by the faithful for their friends decessed, according to the ordinance of God's Church, to be profitable. CAP. XU. 1 ANd for our part it is sufficient, that we know God in his holy word to be the first founder of our doctrine, and therefore that they lie blasphemously, which would make any heretic the author of it. And as for the authority of Counsels that is alleged against us, we have showed before, that the decrees of 95. Can. of Car. the forth and second of Vase are flatly falsified, which speak not at all of oblations for the dead, but oblations of the dead, that is, such money as the departed have bequeathed to the use of the poor. The 79. Can. of the forth Council of Carthage decreed, that if penitents died before absolution, they should have their memory commended with prayers and oblations. The Bracarense decree Can. 39 prescribeth how the money offered at such commemoration of the dead, should be distributed. The 34. Can. of the same Council, whereunto he pointeth us in this place, decreeth that for them that kill themselves, no commemoration should be made nor that they should be buried with Psalms. But wherefore trow you did he omit the next Canon to it? which decreeth that neither the commemoration of the holy oblation, nor the office of singing Psalms, should be bestowed upon them that were cathechised and died before they were baptized. Either he saw not the book himself, or else he misliked that phrase, the commemoration of the holy oblation, whereby the Bishops of that Council expound, what they mean, when they named the holy communion to be a sacrifice. That is, they did not take it to be so properly, but only a commemoration of the holy sacrifice of Christ. As also when we read in the old writers or councils, oblation for the dead, we must not always understand the celebration of the communion as the Papastes imagine, but that money which first was offered for alms, and afterwards superstitiously was taken to be a kind of redemption for their sins. As in the 11. Council of Toledo. cap. 12. is declared where they decree of such penitents, as died before reconciliation: Placuit nobis, ut & memoria talium in eccles●s commendetur, & oblatio pro eorum delicto a presbyteris recipiatur. It pleaseth us (say the Bishops of that Synod) that the memory of such may be commended in the Churches, and the oblation for their offence, may be taken by the priests. This office that was bestowed upon the dead, which so generally of the old writers and councils is called a memory, undoubtedly took the name of that which it first was. Namely nothing but a memory with thanks giving, which after was corrupted to a prayer for them. Likewise the oblation (as Origen testifieth) at the first was nothing but alms to the relief of the poor, for joy of the rest of them that were departed, and for comfort and godly exercise of them that were a live. But afterward it grew to be counted a redemption for the sins of the departed, and the name of oblation was drawn further to the celebration of the communion, and to be counted a sacrifice for the quick and the dead. But before this Council, there was an other Synod held in Spain at Toledo, called Toletan. 3. cap. 21. Where it was decreed, that they which by Gods calling departed out of this life, should be carried to their graves, only with singing of Psalms. Forbidding that funeral song which was wont to be song to the dead, and all other unseemly gestures of morning. If you say this doth not exclude prayers and oblations: they add, that it must be thought sufficient for the burial of Christian men's bodies, that the office of singing of godly Psalms is bestowed, in hope of the resurrection. And so throughout the Canon they would have men comforted by the hope of the resurrection, affirming that Christian men's bodies throughout the world aught to be no otherwise buried. As for the decree of the Council of Florence, is but a mere mockery. For it was held not passed seven score years a go, when at the same time, there was an other Council holden at Basill against it, in which the Pope Engenius the fourth, who gathered that mock Council of Ferraria and Florentia, was deposed, and an other Pope chosen against him. So there was one Pope and his council in Italy, and an other Pope with his council in Germany. Goodly gauds for fools to play with all. As for the holy council which was held the other day at Trent, you did well to put in the margin, for it was not worthy to come in the text. If the determination of that council be so holy, why do you Papists daily break a number of canons decreed therein, which contains scarce ashadow of reformation? But you can dispense with councils as you list. To omit all other canons, why do not your bishops and parish priests, as often as they minister the sacraments to the people, declare the effect of them to such as receive them in the mother tongue? Session. 8. c. 7. 2 The which grave determination if any man be so wilful to contemn, Let him know, that he despiseth, being but a mortal frail man, the gravest judgement that God hath left in earth for the determination of any matter. Let him be ashamed that he being but one man, taketh upon him to control divers hundreds of the most chosen for virtue, for learning, for experience in the whole Church of God: yea let him if he have any affection of grace, tremble and fear to deface the dealing of that honourable and universal parliament, that representeth unto us Gods holy whole Church, having the assured promise of the holy Ghosts assistance for their guiding in all truth. Yet I see before hand the adversaries will not admit the iudgem●●t of these or any other councils: neither in such men do I much marvel to find so little humility, and so much impudence. For all heretics condemned by councils did ever condemn, as they could, the same councils again. So were the first 4. councils which all Christian men with S. Gregory accept as the holy Gospels of God, All heretics do condemn counsels. utterly refused by the parties in them condemned: The Arians by great force of worldly Princes and many assembles, devilishly withstood the Council of Nice, the Macedonians rejected the council of Constantinople the first, the Nestorians nothing esteemed the council of Ephese, Eutiches and Dioscorus little regarded the council of Chalcedon: in which they & their followers were condemned of heresy for sundry points, which now were overlong, and not for our purpose to rehearse. Then by refusing the heavenly sentence of the Church's judgement, they win nothing else but the assured mark of an heretic. They declare themselves, that as they be in heresy as deep as the best, so they in pride and boldness, be not behind the worst. But all Catholics & faithful believers, as soon as they know the determination of such a number of so well learned fathers gathered in the unity of God's Church and spirit, The humble obedience of Catholics to the governors of God's Church. straight way they receive it, and submit themselves, as to the judgement and revelation of the holy Ghost. For so the Christian brethren that were molested by the contentious clamours of certain troublesome heads at Antioch, being once certified by the letters of that first Christian council, what was decreed and enacted concerning the matters called in question, they then regarded no more what the adversaries thought therein, but out of hand Gavisi sunt super consolation, they rejoiced in that comfort of their agreement. And Ruffinus writeth, Ruffin. that when Constantinus the great understood the determination of the doubts proposed in the great council of Nice, he received it as the oracle of God: Defertur ad Constantinum sacerdotalis concilij sententia, ille tanquam a Deo prolatam veneratur: the decree (saith he) of the priests was showed to Constantine, and he strait with all reverence accepted it, as Gods own sentence. And if our adversaries could learn a little humility, they might quickly be dispatched of a great deal of heresy. The which as it first began with the conceit of singularity and contempt of other, so it proceedeth with maliperte boldness, and endeth in plain disobedience of the Church, of the councils, of the scriptures, and Gods own spirit. Whom without more words I would now give over unto God, having (as I trust) already given them sufficient occasion by the evident proof of my matter, to remember their misery and heavy condition, but that I must remove out of the simples way, such stoombling stocks, as perhaps might somewhat trouble the unlearned, who for lack of deep judgement, be most subject to the adversaries deceits. 2 It is true humility that all men should submit them selves to the authority of God's word, and it is horrible presumption, that any man or multitude of men, should take upon them authority to define against the word of God. As the council of Constance which decreeth in plain words that notwithstanding Christ instituted the sacrament to be received in both kinds, and that the faithful in the primative Church did so receive it, yet the custom of the church of Rome shall prevail, and whosoever sayeth contrary is an heretic, etc. The councils that are received are therefore received, because they decreed truly, and not the truth received because it was decreed in councils. Else why is Nicene council received and Arriminense rejected? why is Ephesinum primum embraced, and Ephesinum secundum detested? Finally, why is the determination of Nicene council which is but one believed, against 10. councils holden by the Arrians, but that the Nicene council decreed according to the word of God, and all the rest against it? wherefore if any council decree according to the scriptures as the council of the Apostles did Acts 15. and the council of Nice with divers other, we receive them with all humility, as the oracles of God. But if any council decree contrary to the authority of the scriptures, as many did, without all presumption or pride, we may justly reject them. 3 And with such thus they lightly practise: first by lofty looks and high chalengies, How they practise with the simple. they crack and boast with passing boldness, that the learned men of the world, the sage fathers of the ancient times, all the grave councils, the whole usage of the primitive Church, with plain Scripture, to be on their part. And as for the contrary teaching, Gre●● impudence in heretics. that it came in of late with the decay of learning and light of truth, in these barbarous times when superstition and da●ke ignorance had wasted the doctrine of the years past. And in this brag they stand, till some Catholic man encounter with them. By whom when they see themselves so driven from the standing which they kept with great glory before, that they must be wholly naked and destitute in the face of the world of all such helps, as they accounted to have for the outward show of their deceitful doctrine, then in plain words they confess their teaching not to hang on the antiquity, not on councils, not on Doctors, nor on any man, but on God's holy spirit and word, which can not deceive them. And so at the end, the old use of the primitive Church, the fathers, and the general councils arrogantly contemned, or rather unworthily condemned (mark well their pretty conceits) they make then a match between themselves with God's word on the one party, and the doctors and fathers with out God's word, on the other party. The sophistry of heretics. Affirming that they be not bound to believe them but where they agreed with the scriptures of God. And then turning their talk to the simple, thus they preach unto them by a captious and foolish demand, whether they think it more reason or convenient to believe the scriptures, or doctors: the determination of the true and lively word of God, or else the decree of a general Council: which deceitful wresting of the state of our question, somewhat troubles the unlearned, which can not perceive hereby that they betray themselves, and deface their own doings, in so rude a defence. For who seeth not now, that they renounce all that help of councils & Doctors which with vaunts they claimed before, whiles they impudently make a division or contrariety betwixt them and the holy scripture? And we take it at their hand as an open acknowledging of their lack, there where they pretended greatest store. The which thing if they likewise would confess openly in pulpit and in plain words, as they mean nothing less when they show the people that they were but men, that they might err, that they followed the custom of the common people in their time, that they are not to be received but where they agreed with scripture, & that themselves must try whether they be consonant to the word of God or no: if they would, I say, without such cloaked words boldly pronounce as Luther their master did, that they cared not for a hundredth Augustine's or hierom's, that they esteemed not the consent of all nations, that they would be tried by the judgement of no council, that they would purposely run contrary to the councils decree in all causes, that they would take that for th'only truth which is contained in the holy Scriptures, and that for Scripture which themselves thought good, and last of all, that for the true meaning which agreed best to the upholding of error and heresy, then would the people leave these lewd masters on the plain field, which now they keep with them, one while by the praises of the doctors and antiquity, and somewhiles by thabasing of them again, and deceitful referring all to the only Scriptures, to which they say credit may safely be given, where the doctors without danger can not be further followed, then as they be not found to disagree with God's word. So that the cause seemeth now to be driven to this issue in the eyes of thignorant, whether men should rather believe the Scripture or the doctors, the word of God that can not be false, or the fathers that were but men, and therefore might err, deceive, and be deceived. 3 But that you love to spend many words about a thing of nought, you might have spoken as much in three words as you have done in three leaves. But that I may briefly cut of your lavesh lip labour: whereas you use in deed as great impudency as you charge us withal in words, first you would make our challenge contrary to itself, as though one while we boast of the doctors, and then being driven from them, we fly to the Scriptures. They that daily hear our preaching, & with any diligence peruse our writing, can bear us witness, that you do falsely & shamefully bely us. For we stand for authority only to the judgement of the holy Scriptures, and whatsoever we say of fathers, councils, or the most ancient primitive Church, it is either for testimony of our truth, or for conviction of your lying. For it is, you M. Allen, the Papists, that boast of all antiquity, all fathers, all doctors, all councils, all Churches, to be all together on your side, among whom as we will not deny, but you have some patrons, of some of your errors, so will we affirm, that you have more enemies, in the greatest of your heresies. And therefore this issue is rightly joined, and without any jeofayle upon this point, that the Scripture is to be credited rather than the doctors, the word of God rather than the writings of men. 4 But this is not the state of our controversy, nor of any question betwixt the Catholics and them. And that they know full well, though they craftily cloak it with change of words. for we acknowledge most gladly, that if any Doctor, Prophet, Apostle or Angel (if it were possible) preach unto us any thing against the word and truth of God's Scripture, that he is accursed of God, and to be rejected of men. But here is the stand, and the point of all our doubts in general (note it well Master protestant) whether the ancient fathers, some of them being in Christ's time, divers of them scholars to his Apostles, Here lieth the doubt and diversity betwixt heretics & Catholics many within one hundredth or two of years afterward, most of them more than a thousand years since (I speak of such as we have named in our cause) & all wonderfully learned as well in the knowledge of the secrets of God's mysteries, as the tongues: all mercifully endued with great gifts and graces, all exceeding studious in the Scriptures, all having the same testament and written word of God that we now have, all using marvelous diligence in the conference of divers places, for the true meaning and understanding of the same, all having fervent zeal in teaching the Christian people, all at times appointed resorting together from divers parts of the world to some one general search, in which, by humble conference together and prayer, they doubted not to obtain the spirit of truth, as it was by our Master promised: the question is now then, I say, whether those holy men, thus holpen by nature, diligence, time and grace, be not more like to understand the Scripture than these men, which either lack all these helps, or most of them. Secondly it followeth thereupon, whether we should rather give credit to them, affirming purgatory and prayers for the dead to be not only consonant, but plainly proved by the Scriptures, or else to our new adversaries, avouching these things to be against the Scripture. Whereby you see, we must not now reason, whether we aught to believe the doctors or the Scriptures better, but whether for the true sense, we must not believe the old fathers, better than these new fools. 4 In words you grant our issue, because you know that all the country of christians, would otherwise go against you. but in deed you deny it. For the issue which you would join upon is both captious and doubtful. Captious, because it disjoineth those things which are not to be separated, namely the Scripture and the true meaning thereof. Doubtful, because it standeth upon a likelihood and not upon a certainty. For thus you join: whether the old doctors be more like to understand the Scriptures than the Protestants. I have answered before, we will make no comparison with them. Neither will we challenge the likelihood to us, neither will we leave it to them, for whether so ever we do, we shall be never the more certain of the truth. But this will we set down as a most certain principle, that no man can understand the Scriptures, but by the same spirit by which they were written. What then? shall we arrogate the spirit as proper to us and deny it to them? God forbidden. They had their measure of God's spirit, & (we humbly thank his majesty) so have we. How then? is the spirit of God contrary to itself, because they and we agreed not in all things? God forbidden. Cyprian and Cornelius were both endued with God's spirit, and both Martyrs, yet they agreed not both in one interpretation nor judgement of the scripture. what then? there remaineth but this second principle as certain as the first. That the spirit of God hath a meaning in the scriptures, which is not to be sought out of the scriptures, in the opinions of deceivable men, but only in the scriptures, where is nothing but the spirit of truth. These 2. commandments, search the scriptures, and try the spirits: teach how to attain to certainty of truth. For the scriptures are not understood but by the spirit, and the spirits are not tried but by the scriptures. Therefore that the spirit may declare his own meaning, one place of scripture must be expounded by an other. All other ordinary means and helps, of wit, learning, knowledge of tongues, diligence in hearing, reading, and praying, are subordinate and serving to this search and trial. And who so observeth this search and trial most precisely, shall come to the knowledge of the truth most certainly. And who so ever is negligent in this search and trial, though he have otherwise never so many and excellent graces, and gifts, may easily be deceived, yea even when he thinketh he followeth the authority of the scriptures. I could allege for confirmation of this truth, the testimony of divers of the ancient fathers, which if they had always followed that which some times they so highly commended, they should not so lightly have passed over some things, and other things so slenderly have maintained. But my thinks, the testimony of the Pope should be a per se with all Papists. The Pope himself in his canon law (for Cayphas some times doth prophecy) hath allowed this to be the only way to expound the scriptures. Affirming that no where else, but even out of the scriptures themselves, the true sense of the scriptures is to be taken. Ascribed to Clemens dist. 37. cap. Relatum. Lex Dei cum legitur non secundum propriam ingenij virtutem, vel intelligentiam legatur, vel doceatur. Sunt enim multa verba in scriptures divinis, quae possunt trahi ad eum sensum, quem sibi unus quisque sparte praesumpserit, sed non oportet, non enim sensum extrinsecus alienum & extraneum debetis quaerere, ut quoquo modo ipsum ex s●ripturarum authoritate confirmetis, sed ex ipsis scriptures sensum capere veritatis oportet. When the law of God is read, let it not be read or taught, after the force or understanding of a man's own wit. For their be many words in the holy scriptures, which may be drawn to such sense as every man of his own head shall presume to make, but you may not do so. For you aught not to seek forth without, any foreign or strange sense, that you may confirm it by any means by authority of the scriptures, but you must take the sense of truth out of the scriptures themselves. And thus much for the true understanding of the scriptures and now to your false superstition. First I deny that any of the ancient fathers in Christ his time, or scholars to his Apostles, or within one or two hundredth years after Christ, except one that had it of Montanus the heretic, as he had more things beside, in any one word maintained your cause, for purgatory or prayers for the dead. Secondly of them that maintained prayers for the dead, the most confessed they had it not out of the scriptures, but of tradition of the Apostles and custom of the Church, therefore they are not to be compared unto us in better understanding of the scriptures, for that point, which they denied to be received of the scriptures. Thirdly those of the ancient fathers that agreed with you in any part of your assertion (for none within four hundredth years was wholly of your error) notwithstanding many excellent gifts that they had, yet maintained other errors beside that, and about that discented one from an other, and sometime the same man from himself, and that is worst of all from manifest truth of the holy Scriptures. Therefore neither is their erroneous interpretation in this matter to be received, nor M. Allens wise judgement of us to be regarded. An answer to such arguments as the heretics do frame of the holy scriptures not well understanded, against the practice of God's Church, in praying for the dead, or the doctrine of Purgatory. CAP. XVI. 1 THerefore to stop their way at every turn, and because they talk so fast of scripture, full fain would I hear what scriptures they have, that make either expressly against purgatory and prayers for the dead, or else by any one learned man in all the world, was ever expounded for any such sense. And lo now (good reader) what scriptures they allege that can ab●de nothing but scripture. First out of Ecclesiastes. The tree whether it fall to the south or the north, Cap. 1. it lieth ever where it lighteth. Then they allege out of S. Matthews Gospel, that there be two ways, one to bring to heaven, Cap. 7. and the other leading strait to hell. And then out of the second to the Corinthians, they bring in, how we must all stand before the judgement seat of Christ: Cap. 5. there to receive each of us according to our works and life: and that by other men's labour, our state can not be amended. Again they allege this sentence of the Apocalypse. Beati mortui etc. blessed be the dead that die in our Lord, Cap. 14. for after that, the spirit sayeth, that they shall rest from travels. All which texts, and the like of that sort, make no more against purgatory, than they do against hell or heaven: except, that as Anaxagoras the philosopher said, all things were in every thing, Phisic. 1. l. so these divines can find every text of scripture to make for what purpose they list: and yet if the Catholics allege a numbered of scriptures, and them with the mind and judgement of the whole world, that doubteth not but they prove that, for which they be recited, yet they set light by them, and impudently with clamours bear men in hand, that they have no scriptures at all. Which things as they smell of much arrogancy in all men, so in these folk that so malapertly control others, where themselves have no scripture at all, it is untolerable. CAP. XVI. 1 THis chapter is but pro forma tantum to make a show of a confutation, where neither the tenth part of our arguments are rehearsed, nor those that are named with any colour of reason, and jest of all with authority of scriptures, are confuted. First he will allow us but 4. texts of scripture, because he will not take pains to wrist any more. And those make nothing for us except all things be in every thing as Anaxagoras said. It should seem M. Allen, that you yourself dreamt so with Anaxagoras, else would you not find purgatory in every one of them, which we say is in none of them, but rather excluded by them all. But who can prescribe the devil a measure in lying? when he is disposed to lie? we have no scriptures at all, the Catholics have all the scriptures, and the judgement of the whole world upon them: you have said enough, M. Allen, to win the whet stone, if it were as big as any mountain in the world. 2 And for these, which they here or else where allege, I ask them sincerely, and desire them to tell me faithfully, what doctor or wise learned man of the whole antiquity, ever expounded these texts recited, or any one of them, or any other which you bring in else when, against Purgatory or practice for the dead? If they did not, how can you for sin and shame descent from the whole Church of Christ, upon so light grounds? Or how dare you be so bold, that seek in every controversy express scripture, to allege these places, which wise men, nor I think yourselves take for any such purpose? Or how may you for shame reject the evident word of God, by us truly reported for the trial of our matter, yourselves having almost nothing, that can be wrested to your sense? 2 Before the heresy of Purgatory was planted in the world, how could the old doctors interpret these places, by name against that which they never heard named? yet have they so interpreted some of them, that their interpretation can not stand with purgatory or prayer for the dead, as I will show in their particular answers. When we require express Scripture for every controversy, we do not require that every thing should be named in Scripture, but necessarily concluded out of the true meaning of the Scriptures and purpose of the holy Ghost in them. As for the evident word of God, which you report for trial of your matter, is yet to show, and shall be for ever. You shame not to boast of that to be your trial, which you dare as well eat a faggot as abide the judgement of i●, in any lawful conference or disputation: your great bellwethers and Bishops declared before the whole world in the conference of Westminster, what they durst abide, when they came to handestrokes. It is a gay matter for such a chattering pie, as you are, to make a fond flourish a far of in words of common wrangling, to please your patrons and exhibitioners, it is an other thing to stand to the proof in deed. An answer to the first place. 3 If you stand to the trial of our alleged testimonies, you will be much abashed I know. For how can you imagine, that the place recited out of Ecclesiastes, should further your intent any thing at all? Seeing, that even then when the wiseman spoke those words, the soul of man strait after her departure, and the fall of the body, continued not where it first fell: for the just had a place of abiding and rest in the inferior parts, which was called of Ezechias the gate of hell. Esay. 38. In the Gospel Sinus Abrahae, the bosom of Abraham, and now Lymbus Patrum: in which they all abode till they were delivered by the blood and travel of our Saviour jesus. With whom, they after were translated to the eternal joys of heaven. Bern. ser. 4. de fest. omnium Sanct. Amb. super 5. ad Romanos. Which thing if it be true, as it can not but be true and certain, which the whole course of scripture, the article of our faith in Christ's descension into hell, and all the ancient fathers do constantly setforth, what blindness be they in then, that bring this place against Purgatory, which as it is a stay of certain for a time from heaven, so the other before Christ, was the stay of all. And therefore, it is plain, that this falling of the tree meaneth nothing less, then that every man should strait upon his departure be conveyed either to hell or heaven. Or if any wedded to calvin's blasphemous and unfaithful paradoxes, do with Purgatory deny the father's place of abode, before the coming of Christ, and impugn the belief of God's Church so much, that he withstand the article of our Creed, for Christ's descending into hell, to turn the cause of his going into hell, to some other purpose then the losing of their captivity that there were in expectation of his joyful appearance, yet I would demand so much of Caluins' successor or scholar, Caluins' absurd doctrine is refuted. seeing he will of this figurative speech of the trees falling gather so grounded and general a rule, that with out delay every man must to heaven or hell strait after his death, there to remain in perpetual state of his fall in the next life, either good or bad, I would ask of him (I say) what he thinketh by all those, that were by the Prophets, Apostles, or Christ himself, raised up again from death to life. Who receiving by death that fall, by their account must needs abide where they first fell: and so not in case to be revoked, by this their false conclusien they diminish the power of the spirit in working their raising again. Or else they must impute deceit to the holy men, and our master Christ (which abhorreth me to speak) for that they raised them not being perfectly dead, but in some deadly trance, or appearance of death. But because the soul of Lazarus, The state of such in the next world as by God's omnipotentie were raised to life again. was now four days out of his body before Christ wrought upon him, it is sure and most certain, that it had some place of abiding after the separation from the flesh. I can not think that his soul was in heaven: nor it is not like, that our Saviour would so much abase the happy condition of him whom he loved so well, as to reduce him to the uncertain state of this life. I will define, in this my ignorance, nothing touching the secrets of God's wisdom herein. But very like it is, that the parties raised from their fall and death, were not in the joys of heaven. As before Christ's death, I am sure they were not, but I speak of Tabytha also or other revoked by the Apostles hands, that then after Christ's passion might full well, dying in perfect state of life, go strait to heaven, of such I say it is very reasonable, that they were not in the joys of the elect. For else Tabytha should not have had such a benefit by her alms, as the fathers do witness she had. And they use her for an example, of the benefit which may rise to one after departure, by charitable works done in this life. It had been a small pleasure to have plucked her from heaven to this mortality again, and misery of our common life: and I trow no man may avouch w●th salfety of his belief, that she or any other raised again miraculously, was revoked from the desperate estate of the damned souls, than she must necessarily be called from some mean condition of her present abode, and perhaps from pain too, to this former state of life again. But as in this secret of God, no man without just reprehension may deeply wade, so it may reasonably be gathered that the fall of the tree before mentioned, can not induce with any probability, the necessity of the souls abiding in all respects, where it first light. Marry we freely grant with divers of the ancient fathers, that the fall of the tree into the south part, may signify unto us the departure of man in the happy state of grace, and the north side likewise, the cursed and damnable state of the wicked: and tha● he which passeth hence in either of these estates and conditions (as every living man doth) can not procure by other, neither deserve by himself, the change of his happy lot, or his unlucky hap, otherwise then in his life time he deserved. That is to say, if he pass this world an elect person, in the love and grace of God, he is out of doubt of all damnation, or rather out of possibility to be rejected: and so the case of the forsaken is utterly remediless. And further by that figurative speech you had not best on your own head to be over bold, lest some Saducete of your sect, gather the perpetual rest of the body, without all hope of resurrection. I can not tell how it falleth, but yet so it doth, that your doctrine and arguments minister over much occasion of error, and that to the deceived in the deepest matters of our faith. But I will rub you no more on that sore. I warned you before, to take heed to the resurrection. 3 If we had no stronger testimonies, than these, and you no better answers than you make to these, yet should not we have so much cause to be abashed at our allegations, as you to be ashamed of your confutations. Your first answer is, that the souls of men at that time continued not where they at the first fell, but went first into the inferior parts, which you call Lymbus patrum, but neither Ezechias nor the Gospel, knew any such place. For Ezechias speaketh of the grave, the Gospel of that place of comfort, where the souls of the faithful are in happy estate, even where Christ is. But O learned Logician, that answereth one controversy with an other, as much controversed. Nay, stay a while, the article of Christ's descending into hell maketh all out of doubt. If that be so, why do we not say that Christ descended into Abraham's bosom or into Lymbus patrum, or seeing Christ said he would be in Paradise, why say we not that he descended into paradise, and seeing he commended his spirit into the hands of his father, why say we not he descended into his father's hands. But because these be no absurdities that follow of M. Allen, & that papistical assertion, you shall hear Caluins absurd doctrine, refuted by the said famous Clerk M. Allen with famous reasons. He will ask (for his answers be questions) what is it to be thought, of those that were raised from death to life, seeing they received their first fall. This were a pretty question for a Sophister in Oxeford to demand in their parleys. But the poor man tormenteth himself in vain, they which deny prayers to be profitable by that place of the wise man, understand the fall of the tree to the South or to the North, to be the judgement of God concerning every man, either of reward or of punishment, which can not be altered after a man's death. This restraineth not God from working miracles, and sending some to life again, but showeth what the ordinary state of men is after their departure. This place is of them that die & remain in death, unto the day of the general resurrection, as for the other, although they were dead, yet they were appointed to live again, they fell in deed, but to have a particular rising, but when they fell to abide the general rising, they were in the same case with the rest. But examples will make the matter clear. The soul of Lazarus was 4. days from his body, M. Allen thinketh he was not in heaven, for Christ loved him too well to bring him out of heaven: and not that only, but to reduce him to the uncertain state of this life. As though it were injury to Lazarus to forbear the joys of heaven, for the short time of this life, to become such a glorious example, of the majesty of Christ's power, and as though Christ, which brought him to life temporal, was not able in the incerteinty of this life, to preserve him to eternal life. O profane heathenish Sophister, of God's high mysteries. But seeing you think M. Allen he was not in heaven, where think you in your conscience he was? in hell, or in purgatory, or in Abraham's bosom? for you have store of diverse places, if he were in hell, you hold there had been no redemption. And it is not like that he whom Christ loved so well was 4. days in torment. If you say he was in Abraham's bosom, yet he was in comfort and certainty of salvation, then by your own reason, it is not like that Christ which loved him so well, would abase his happy condition to bring him to the state of this life which is miserable and as you say uncertain, yea he had been better in purgatory: for you hold he should have been in certainty of salvation, but so he was not when he returned to the uncertain state of this life, the like may be said of Tabytha. But these be foolish and unlearned questions M. Allen, which the Apostle willeth us to avoid, as gendering strife rather than edification. And yet when you have questioned about them all you can, you shall never prove the common case of the departed in Christ, by these few peculiar cases. For when so ever and how so ever it pleased God, that their souls remained, it was determined of God that they should be restored to their bodies. And although there souls were in heaven and in happiness, as I do not doubt but they were, yet was it no injury nor hurt unto them, to serve the glory of God. For I doubt not but as all the Godly in this life, confess it to be a part of angelic felicity, to be obedient to the will of God, so those that were so raised from death, so long as their second life continued, carried in their hearts, a heavenly fruition of the glory of God shining in their restitution: and of their thankful obedience, submitting themselves to the will of God. But when these matters passeth the reach of M. Allens sophistry, as of which he can prate much, and define nothing, he falleth to an other shift: that the fall into the south, signifieth the certainty of salvation, that the elect be in, after this life, and the fall into the North, the certainty of damnation, that the wicked are in. For though the elect be in purgatory, yet they be in the favour of God, and certain of salvation. But this gloss corrupteth the text, for than they should always lie in purgatory, which is a warm south (if it be as they say) for the certainty or uncertainty of their salvation, is as great before they were borne, as after they be dead. It can not be therefore that the wise man speaketh thereof. And because you crack of the exposition of the fathers, Hieronym in his commentary upon this place, expoundeth the north and the south not for the states of grace or wrath, but for the places of reward or punishment of them that die. Si dignos Austro fructus attulit in plaga iacebit Australi. Nec est aliquid lignum quod aut ad Aquilonem non sit aut ad Austrum. If it have brought forth fruits worthy of the South, it shall lie in the south cost. Neither is there any tree but it falleth either to the North or to the South. As for your babbling of the Saducees sect, and doubting of the resurrection, bid your Popes and Cardinals take heed of it. Pope john the 23. was condemned for it in the Council of Constance. Epicureisme and Saduceisme is more common at Rome then Christianity. 4 Now for the other text recited out of S. Matthewes Gospel of the double way, An answer to the second text. the one to perdition, and the other to salvation: there is almost none so simple, but he seeth that it maketh no more for your purpose, than the other. For there, as our adversary can not but know (though to deceive he list dissemble) mention is made, and the meaning is only of these two ways in this world and life, in one of which, being full of ease and liberty, the wicked walketh towards hell or damnation: In the which way, the rich man and unmerciful took his time: of whom Abraham said, that he had received good in his days. In the other, being both strait and hard, the small numbered of the chosen take their journey towards heaven. And yet if you think good, you may join the place of temporal punishment for sin in the world to come, to the strait and painful passage of the elect, though perhaps all they enter not thereby. And so shall you find this place not only nothing to further their cause, but somewhat to help ours. 4 If there be but two ways in this life, there are but two abiding places after this life. If there be more than two after this life, than there be more ways than two in this life. Control our Saviour Christ's partition as unperfect, if you list. You will say, that needeth not, for purgatory after this life is that strait gate or a piece of it. what else? It is not enough for our English Anaxagoras, to exclude our opinion out of these places, but he must find purgatory in them also. This is plain to make quidlibet ex quolibet. But the commandment of Christ marreth the market of this interpretation, unless you think when Christ willeth us to strive to go in by the strait gate, that he biddeth us strive to go into purgatory. An answer to the third argument. 5 And so for the other taken out of the fift to the Corinth: S. Augustine shall answer you, and bear me witness, it maketh nothing for you, his words be these in his Encheridion: This practice that God's Church useth in the commendations of the dead, CX. is nothing repugnant to the sentence of the Apostle, where he saith that we all shall stand before the judgement seat of Christ, that every one may receive according to his deserts in the body, either good or evil: for this in his life and before death he deserved, that these works after his death might be profitable unto him, for in deed they be not profitable for all men, and why so? but because of the difference and diversity of men's lives, whilst they were in this flesh, etc. And this same sentence the Doctor often repeateth, almost in the same form of words in divers places, both to correct their ignorance that mighe take a way prayers for the dead, because they find the sentence of God's judgement to be executed on man according to the deserving of this lief: and no less to give monition to the careless, that they omit not to do well in this life, upon hope or presumption of other men's works after their decease: which as they be exceeding beneficial to many, so they help none such, as in their own life would not help themselves. The like declaration of this point hath S. Denyse in the 7. chapter of his Ecclesiastical sovereignty: which I omit, jest in this point, by S. Augustine sufficiently avouched, I weary the reader without cause. 5 And S. jeronym with your own canon law shall answer you, that prayers prevail not after this life 13. q. 2. In praesenti, In this present world we know, that we may be helped one of an other either by prayer or by council, but when we shall come before the judgement seat of Christ, neither job nor Daniel nor No can entreat for any man, but every man must bear his own burden. 6 The last objection, of the angels words in the Apocalypse, An answer to the last scripture. affirming the state of all those that die in our Lord to be happy, to be past travel, and in rest and peace: they be properly spoken there, of holy men that shed their blood in the times of persecution for Christ's sake: to give them assured comfort, after a little toleration and patience in the rage of Antichrist, of blessed and eternal rest, and so the circumstance of the letter plainly giveth, and so doth S. Augustine expound it. And for such holy Martyrs it is needless to pray, Cap. 9 lib. 20. de civit. as to pray unto them is most profitable. Albeit the words are true, and may be well verified of all that pass hence in the happy state of grace, being past the cares of this troublesome world, and which is the greatest travel of all other, utterly dispatched of the toil that sinners take in their ways of wickedness: with freedom from sin, and all fear of sin and damnation, for evermore. So that this rest from labour, is no more but a happy joy of conscience, with security of salvation and peace in Christ Jesu. For which cause in the holy Canon of the Mass, it is said, Christianos dormire in somno pacis, & in Christo quiescere, That Christian folks do sleep in the sleep of peace, and rest in Christ, though for all that, in the same place, we ask Requiem & refrigerium, rest and refreshing for them. And this holy peace from all toil of the world, and worm of tormented conscience, the elect children of God in their father's correction, being assured of his eternal love do blessedly enjoy. But the wicked be in contrary case, of whom it is said, non est pax impijs, there is no rest or quietness to the wicked: no not in their days of joy, much less in their infinite misery of their everlasting torments in the world to come. Of whose unhappy state, the Prophet warneth us thus again. Isay. 57 Impij quasi mare feruens quod quiescere non potest: The wicked be right like unto the tumblinge and tossing sea, that never resteth. The place of S. john then, being namely spoken of holy Martyrs that strait with out all pain after this life pass to heaven, may yet very fitly stand with the happy case of all those that die in the favour of God, and assurance of their salvation: though they abide sharp, but sweet pain of fatherly discipline, for their better qualifying to the joys prepared for them and all other the elect. So that now, the moving of these doubts hath so little advantaged our adversaries, that it hath somewhat given occasion of further declaration of our matter, than otherwise perchance we should have had. 6 The last objection that you list to trouble your head with all, is that voice which was heard from heaven. Apoc. 14. of the blessed state of them that die in the Lord, in the meaning of which you wrist and wriggle, like a snake, that is smitten on the head, but you can not avoid the strife. First you understand it only of Martyrs, that die in the Lord, and call Augustine to witness thereof. As I will not deny but Martyrs are specially comforted by that voice, so I will affirm, that it is to the common comfort and reward of all the faithful in Christ, who as they live in Christ so they die in Christ. And witness hereof I will not take of flesh and blood, but of the holy Ghost. Rome, 14. None of us liveth unto himself, neither doth any die unto himself, for whether we live, we live unto the Lord, and whether we die, we die unto the Lord. And the Apostle 1. Cor. 15. nameth the faithful that are a sleep in Christ, and 1. Thes. 4. them that are dead in Christ. Wherefore in despite of the devil and the Pope, this blessing appertaineth to all them that die in the Lord jesus Christ, as true members of his body, and not to them only that shed their blood for Christ. True it is, that all they that would live godly in Christ jesus, suffer persecution, but not all to the death, else who are those innumerable Saints that no man can number of all nations and tongues, which S. john saw, Apoc. 7. who are likewise in happy and blessed rest, without all manner, lack or hurt, hunger, thirst or heat? but when you are weary of that interpretation, you wring out an other: that they in purgatory also be happy, because they be sure of salvation at last, and the rest from labours, is either the rest from sin, or else no more but joy of conscience. witness of this exposition is the canon of the Mass. The witness, the matter and he that useth it, are all of like credit. But if I might pose your conscience M. Allen, can you call that a happy rest, which is joined with such torment & misery, as you bear men in hand is in purgatory? Have you forgotten that you said year while of Tabytha and Lazarus, that it was a benefit for them to be delivered out of purgatory into this life, and is it now a blessing to be dispatched out of this life into purgatory? And as for that which you allege out of the canon of your mass, declareth that your mass was patched together of many pieces of divers colours. For you pray for the rest of them whom you confess to be at rest in Christ: you wish easement for them whom you affirm to sleep in peace. As though in Christ were not perfect rest, as though in peace there were torment, and this exposition you yourself are weary of also, and turn again to your former and then back again to the latter. An unconstant man is uncertain in all his ways, yet all were little worth, if this place helped not to prove purgatory also. For the pain of purgatory is a sweet pain, a happy rest, a fatherly discipline. And yet as Augustine saith, it is but for small faults, or as you say, for great faults, that by penance are made small. And is God such a merciful father, to punish small faults so extremely in his children, whom he pardoneth of all their great and heinous sins? O blasphemous hellhounds. An answer to their negative argument, with the Conclusion of the book. CAP. XVII. 1 But yet one common engine they have, as well for the impugnation of the truth in this point, as for the sore shaking of the weak walls of the simples faith, almost in all their fight that they keep against the Catholics. Which, though it be not strong, yet it is a marvelous fit reasoning for so fond a faith. For if thou cast an earnest eye upon their whole doctrine, thou shalt find that it principally, and in a manner wholly consistithe, Their new no faith is upholden by a negative argument. in taking away or wasting an other faith that it found before: so that the preachers thereof, must ever be destroyers, pluckers down, and rooters up of the truth grounded before. Will you see then, what a Protestants faith and doctrine is? deny only and make a negation of some one article of our belief, and that is a form of his faith, which is lightly negative. There is no free will, A protestāns Crede. there is no works needful to salvation, there is no Church known, there is no chief governor thereof, there be not seven sacraments, they do not confer gratiam, give grace. Baptism is not necessary to salvation, Christ is not present on the altar, there is no sacrifice, there is no priesthood, there is no altar, there is no profit in prayers to saints, or for the dead, there is no purgatory, Christ went not down to hell, there is no limbus, finally if you list go forward in your negative faith, there is no hell, there is no heaven, there is no God. Do you not see here a trim faith and a substantial? look in Caluins' Institutions and you shall find the whole frame of this wasting faith. There is nothing in that blasphemous book, nor in their Apologies, but a gathered body of this no faith. For so it must needs be that teacheth no truth, but plucketh up that truth which before was planted. Is it not a pretty doctrine that Caluine makes of the sacraments, when he telleth not the force of any of them all, but only standeth like a fierce monstrous swhine, rooting up our father's faith therein? CAP. XVII. 1 IT vexeth you at the very heart, that we require the authority of the holy Scriptures, to confirm your doctrine having a plain commandment out of the word of God, that if any man teach otherwise then the word of God alloweth, he is to be accursed. And therefore you run to a childish kind of Sophistry to say that our argument is negative. A perilous point that almost all the Papists think themselves more than Chrysippus, or Aristoteles, when they tell us that our argument is ab auctoritate negatiuè. Alack poor logic. All knowledge that christian men have of heavenly things, is grounded upon the authority of God's word, therefore as it is no good logic to conclude negatively of one place or book of Scripture, this is not contained in it, therefore it is not true: so of the whole doctrine of God, wherein all truth necessary to salvation is contained, the argument is most invincible that concludeth negatively thus. All true doctrine is taught in the Scripture, purgatory is not taught in the Scripture, therefore purgatory is no true doctrine. And this conclusion M. Allen himself made of man's authority, cap. 13. purgatory and prayers for the dead were not preached against, at their first entry, ergo they are true. But of all men's authority it is false, whereas he saith we are overthrowers & destroyers, we confess we are so, of all false doctrine and heresy. For the word of God is appointed not only to teach truth, but also to overthrow error, not only to build faith but to destroy falsehood. But it is a proper conceit wherein he pleaseth himself, as other of his sect do, to tell us that all our faith standeth upon negatives. I could frame the Papists as wholesome a creed all upon affirmatives if they will receive it. This is more than boyish babbling. All truth is to be affirmed, all falsehood to be denied. Therefore it is not to be looked what is affirmative and what negative, but what is true or false that is affirmed or denied. But to run through the articles of that creed, which he hath framed for us, we truly believe that man after his fall hath not free will, not not aptness of will, to think any thing that is good. 2. Cor. 3. we believe truly, that a man is not justified by works, but by faith only. Rom. 3. And yet we believe that good works are necessary to be in every man that is justified. jac. 2. we believe that the Church is not always known to the wicked upon earth, neither the universal Church seen at all of men, because it is in heaven, Gal. 4. we believe that the catholic Church hath no chief governor upon earth but Christ unto whom all power is given in heaven & earth Matth. 28. we believe there are but 2. Sacraments of the new testament, baptism and the lords supper instituted by Christ, 1. Cor. 10. we believe that they give not grace of the work wrought but after the faith of the receiver, and according to the election of God. 1. Cor. 10. Baptism is necessary for all Christians to receive, that are not by necessity excluded from it. 1. Pet. 3. Christ is present at his Supper, but not after a gross and Capernaitical manner, but as he was present in Manna to the fathers. 1. Cor. 10. There is no sacrifice propitiatory for our sins, but only the sacrifice of Christ's death once offered for all. Heb. 10. There is no priesthood to offer sacrifice propitiatory but only the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedech Heb. 7. The spiritual priesthood is common to all Christian men and women. 1. Pet. 1. we have an altar of which it is not lawful for them to eat, which serve the tabernacle, and other beside we have none. Heb. 13. we call not upon Saints, because we believe not in them, for how should we call upon them, in whom we believe not? Rom. 10. There is no prayer for the dead nor purgatory after this life, because they that live unto Christ die unto him and being dissolved are with him. joan. 17. Christ descended into hell to redeem us out of hell, by suffering the wrath of God for our sins Heb. 5. There is no Lymbus, for the fathers were at rest with God, where they are now: whether we call the place Abraham's bosom, or paradise, or heaven Luke. 16. and 23. 2. Cor. 12. The rest which you add, may be the beginning of the Popish creed, which you may as you list continued negatively or affirmatively after this manner. God a loan knoweth not the hearts of all men. God only is not to be worshipped and served, for Saints have both the one and the other. God only is not true, for the Pope can not err. Christ is not our only mediator and advocate, for Marie and the Saints are also. Christ's death is not a sufficient redemption for us, for we must satisfy for ourselves. Christ's death hath not taken away both our sins and the punishment of them, but the Popes pardon may. Christ is not only our high priest according to the order of Melchizedech, for every hedge priest is of the same order. Christ hath not made them that are sanctified perfect by a sacrifice once offered for all. For the greatest part is left to the mass. Our sins are not freely forgiven us by Christ, for we must satisfy for them. A man is not justified by faith without the works of the law, for every man must merit for himself. The scriptures are not sufficient to teach us all truth, but we must have unwritten verities. The word of God is not of sovereign authority, for the decrees of the Pope and general councils be equal with it. This is the Papists creed both in the affirmative and in the negative. But in that you exhort the Papists to read Caluins' institution, and there to see whether he teacheth any truth therein: I would to God that all Papists in England would follow your counsel & pray unfeignedly that God would open there eyes, that they may see his truth if it be taught in that book. 2 This negative faith hath no ground nor confidence of things to be hoped for, nor any certainty of such things as do not yet appear, but it is an evident overthrow of all our hope, and a very canker of the expectation of things to come. This faith therefore of these pluckers down, must needs use a convenient instrument to destroy, and not to build: to pluck up and not to plant, to improve and not to make proof. But what way is that? Like faith like argument. marry by way of negative proof, they confirm their negative and no faith. Purgatory, say they, nor prayers for the dead be not so much as once named in all the scripture, ergo there is neither of them to be believed. Which form of argument served the Arians against the consubstantial unity of God the father, & his son our Saviour. It helped the anabaptists against the baptism of infants, it was profitable to helvidius against the perpetual virginity of God's mother: and it helpeth all pluckers down, but it never serveth a builder. The vanity whereof is so well known, that I will not stand to talk thereof: namely, seeing it hath no place in our cause, for which we have brought divers scriptures, all construed by most learned fathers for that sense: and some so evident, that they drove our adversaries to the open denial of the holy canonical scripture. 2 What ground or confidence of things not seen and yet hoped for our faith hath, it is not for infidels to judge, no more then for blind men to judge of colours. And as for our negative argument, it is stronger than your affirmative error can abide: & there of groweth the spite. But when as you say we frame our argument, of the name of purgatory only or prayers for the dead, you follow your customable course of lying and slandering. And yet we may say it is a great prejudice against your purgatory and prayer, which you make so necessary, and about which no small part of your religion is occupied, that it is not so much as once named in the scriptures. But we say, and truly say, that neither the name nor the thing itself, is taught or can be proved by the scriptures, & so of all other heresies. All truth may be proved by scripture, either in plain words, or by necessary conclusion, which is all one. And therefore the Arians, or anabaptists have no more help of this argument than you Papists. As for the perpetual virginity of the mother of Christ, as we can think it is true, so because the scripture hath not revealed it, neither pertaineth it unto us, we make no question of it. what scriptures you have alleged, and how falsely you slander us, for denying the canonical scripture is set forth at large already. 3 But yet one of these overthrowers frameth (as he supposeth) his negative argument, M. Grindall in his funeral sermon. to the more sure shake of our faith herein, after this sort. In the old law, all sacrifices and expiations both appointed and reckoned even for the smallest offences that man could commit, yet there was never no sacrifice for the purgation of the dead●. How Lord like Master Grindall made his Argument here? Where he should plainly have inferred the contrary after this sort. There was no sin so small unpardoned, but there was some sacrifice of release or expiation thereof in the old law, ergo if any man were bound with sin, were it never so small, whether he were alive or dead, there was some appointed purgation therefore. For there is no consequence nor any appearance of right deduction, to infer upon the naming or rehearsal of all sins, the peculiar mentioning or plain rehearsal of such persons as may be burdened with those sins. There were sacrifices then in the old law for women as well as men, for the princes no less then for the poor, for the priest & for the people, for the dead as well as for the live. And where there was no difference nor respect of persons, in that point there was no peculiar mention to be made, for the distinction of states. The peculiar rehearsal therefore, was only made for the diversity of offences, and not always for the difference of persons. And now the departed in faith being but distincted by state of life, and not by bond of sin from those that be alive, must needs in the case of like sin, for the unity which he is in, have the like remedy as the lief hath for the same sin. And therefore to help your ignorance some thing, thus you must learn: Note. that there was no peculiar sacrifice for the dead, as though they were not of the common body with the living, but they had the same sacrifice done for them that the living in this world in the like case of sin, or punishment for offences, had. Do you not see God's Church, Master Grindall, sacrifice for the dead? but not for them by a peculiar means of offering, One sacrifice for the live and the dead. but the very self same oblation she ever useth for her Children departed, that she practiseth for her faithful flock a live. And in all other practices, there is a perfect community of all benefits betwixt the deceased and their brethren remaining yet in this world. And therefore when you seek for sacrifice in the old law, look not for any distinct way of handling their offences, which is not common with the living. But consider what there was practised for the release of the smaller trespassies, and that was used for both the live and dead, without distinction. Mark what sacrifice was for the abating of any pain due for great offences, and the same shall be well understand, to be with out difference practised, for the live and dead together. That thereby we may by good reason conclude, seeing sacrifice was then offered for purgation of every light offence, that it was done for all states of persons that were either in this life, or after their death to be perfectly cleansed from the same. Although the fact of judas Machabeus be a plain proof that there was a common known ordre of sacrifice: for else how could he have conceived any such sacrifice never heard of before? how could he limit the value of procurement thereof, by a certain sum for every soul deceased? how could he gather in pretence of a thing never used before, the people's alms with out their murmur or motion therein? Why would he have sent money to Jerusalem to procure that, which had no example in the law, or use in the Church? was he so ignorant that he knew not their ordre herein, or so unwise to have sent his money for nothing? Lib. 2. de Orig. Animae Cap. 11. S. Augustine answering an heretic, that by the authority of the fact of judas, would have proved, that by sacrifice men might be saved though they died unbaptized, or in deadly sin, saith unto him: that he is not able to prove, that judas or any other in the law, offered for his friend, or any man else being uncircumcised, no more than the Church now practiseth for any man not baptized. Whereby he plainly confesseth, that the law had a sacrifice for the dead: which, being urged by that heretic, he might have denied with good help of his cause, and answer to the adversary: but that the contrary case was so clear, not only by that book which he took for Canonical scripture, as before is proved, but also by the full consent of all the Church of God, which both by plain practice, and most grave ordinance, had from Christ's time set forth and approved the undoubted truth thereof. 3 To pass over your sauciness and scurrility being as agreeable to your profession and levity, as unmeet for his gravity and dignity whom you name, the argument is of more force than you have wit to understand. But to beat it smaller, that it may enter into your head, or at lest wise that they which have any brain in their heads, may conceive the strength of it, I will use your own figure and mode. All lawful sacrifices were prescribed by the law, sacrifice for the dead was not prescribed by the law, therefore it was no lawful sacrifice. you answer that the rehearsal of sins proveth not the peculiar persons that may be burdened with those sins. And with this foolish distinction you think you have broken out of prison. But you that so like a proud fool, take upon you to help his ignorance, bewray your own intolerable arrogancy and more than beastly blindness. For if you had red the law whereof you make yourself such a rabbin, Levit. 4. & 5.12. & 15. you should have seen the peculiar mentioning and plain rehearsing of all such persons for whom sacrifice was to be offered, both men and women, the Princes and the private persons the Priest and the whole congregation, yea and special regard of the oblations of the poor. And in the particular rehearsing of diverse kind of persons, and the form of the sacrifice, named according to every particular state, it is so far of, that the dead shall be reckoned that such things are enjoined every of these particular persons to do, as it is plain that none but the living could offer, or have sacrifice offered for them. What law was appointed touching lamenting for the dead, you may read Leuit. 21. how the Priest was forbidden to lament for any, but special persons, also Nu. 19 diverse ordinances concerning the dead yet never any sacrifice or prayer for the dead. When Nadab and Abihu were slain, their father and brethren were forbidden to mourn for them, the people were permitted. By all which it appeareth, not only that no sacrifice for the dead, was offered, but that they were so separated from the living, that the Priests might have nothing to do with any of them, but in special cases. And as for your common shift of the common body of the living and the dead, helpeth you nothing, for although all the faithful make one body in Christ, yet there is one state of them that work, an other of them that are judged according to their works, & to put no diversity between them, is not to make a communion but a confusion. But of all other it is a clerkly conclusion that you sand M. Grindall to look upon the example of your mass, whith is a sacrifice both for the quick & the dead, and thereof will prove that the old law, had but one sacrifice for the live and the dead. In deed there you were to good for him, if the practice of the popish church be a good precedent for Moses to follow in his law, we will reason no longer. But the fact of judas Machabaeus putteth all out of doubt. Surely then the fact of every man that transgressed the law, shall be sufficient to prove what the law was and not the book of the law. For else how could he have conceived any sacrifice which he never heard of? How did David conceive the carriage of the ark in a new cart, which he never heard of? except it were of the Philistians that sent home the ark in a cart. And even so it is like, that judas Machabaeus, if he devised not that sacrifice of his own head, yet took it by imitation of the Gentiles, whose studies and practices, your own author confesseth were more frequented in those days among the jews, than the preaching or keeping of the law. Finally to all the other howes and why's, I answer with one word, he had no warrant of his fact in the law of God. Neither doth S. Augustine sufficiently answer the heretic that would prove by that fact, that men dying in deadly sin might be saved by sacrifice. For though they were not uncircumcised for whom judas sent an offering, yet they died in deadly sin, and such sin, as for which they were justly slain, as your own author confesseth, for the idolatrous jewels, that they had every one in their bosoms. Concerning the authority of that book and how it was taken by Augustine, I have answered enough before. 4 But here will I now make an end, desiring thee (gentle reader) with such indifferency to weigh the doing and dealing of both parties, as the importance of the cause, the love of truth, The conclusion of the whole book, with an admonition to the reader. the necessary care of thine own salvation, and thy duty towards God and his Church requireth. There is none of all those points, which the unfaithful contention of our miserable age hath made doubtful, in which thou mayest better behold how upright the ways of truth and virtue be, and how pernicious, double, and deceitful, the dealing of heresy is. The one is upholden by the evident testimony of holy scripture, the other maintaineth her train by bold denial of scriptures: the one seeketh with humility the meaning at their mouths, whom God hath undoubtedly blessed with the gift of understanding and interpretation, the other by singular pride foundeth her unfaithfulness, upon the fantasies of light and lewd persons, that are puffed too and fro with every blast of doctrine. The one resteth upon the practice of all nations, the usage of all ages, and the holy works both of God and man, the other holdeth wholly by contempt of our elders, flattery of the present days and unhappy waste of all works of virtue, religion, and devotion: the one followeth the governors and appointed pastors of our souls, whose names be blessed in heaven and earth, the other joineth to such, as for other horrible heresies & wicked life, are condemned both a live and dead, of the virtuous, and can not for shame be named of their own scholars. The one hath the warrant of God's whole Church, the other standeth on curse and excommunication by the gravest authority that ever was under God in earth. To be short, truth is the Church's dearlinge, heresy must have her maintenance abroad. This one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church is it, whereunto we own all duty and obedience both by God's commandment, and by the bond of our first faith and profession. There is no force of argument, no probability of reason, no subtlety of wit, no deep compass of worldly wisdom, no eloquence of man, nor Angel, nor any other motion that can be wrought in the world, that should make a man doubt of any article approved by her authority. And if thou yet fear to give over thy whole sense, and thine own self to so careful a mother, in whom thou wast begotten in thy better birth, compare our Church with theirs, compare her authority and theirs, her majesty and theirs. 4 In God's name let the reader's way indifferently, the doings and dealings on both parts, the cause, the truth, their salvation, the Church, and the glory of God above all things. And as they see this point handled, so let them judge of the rest. The truth is upholden by evident testimony of scripture, the error, by custom, practice, and judgement of men. The truth seeketh understanding of the scriptures, of the spirit of God in the scriptures, error at the mouths of mortal men. The truth resteth upon the only authority of God, error upon the maintenance of carnal devices. The truth is founded upon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles, the other upon Gentiles and heretics. Truth is embraced of the pure and primitive Church of Christ, error is continued from a corrupt state of the Church of Christ, unto a plain departing away into the church of Antichrist. To be short, truth is tried by the word of God, heresy by the invention of men. The holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is that which humbly obeyeth the word of God, and the synagogue of Satan is that which arrogantly challengeth authority above the word. The true Church shall never decay but alway reign with Christ, the false synagogue shall daily more and more decay until it be utterly destroyed with Antichrist the head thereof, and last of all be damned with the devil and his angels. And who so would make choice of a true mother Church, from a whorish synagogue, let him compare our church with the church of Rome, the authority of our church which is the authority of God in his word, with the authority of theirs which is the opinions of men, the majesty and glory of our church which is spiritual, & the whorish outward bravery of theirs which is carnal. And where he findeth the true church, let him know that in the communion thereof, he received his second birth, and not of the place, time, person, or element, where, when, by whom, or with which he was baptized, either among them or among us. 5 Ours is that Church, that hath borne down heathen princes, that hath destroyed Idolatry, that hath converted all nations to Christ's faith, that hath waded in blood, that hath lived in wealth, that hath been assaulted by hell, by evil life, by heresy, and yet she standeth. Take away all this, compare her constancy in doctrine, with their inconstant mutability: compare the noble army of Martyrs, the holy company of Confessors, the glorious train of so many blessed, wise, and learned Doctors, of many thousand Saints that ever accompany her majesty: compare (I say) all these with the rascal soldiers of the contrary camp: Math. 24. Vbicunque fuerit corpus, illic congregabuntur & aquailae. I warrant thee, gentle reader, fear nothing, for where so ever so honourable a parsonage is, there is the kingly company of eagles. Behold her grace of miracles, her works, and her wonders, her authority in discipline, her wisdom in government, her equability in all estates: and I am sure thou shalt confess Quod dominus est in loco isto, & ego nesciebam. Our Lord surely is in this place, Gene. 28. and I was not ware thereof. For Christ's love, if thou hast followed, or yet have any fantasy to the severed company, grope with out flattery of thyself, the depth of thine own conscience: feel whether God hath not suffered thee to fall for some sin. Come into this Church, and at the same time thou shalt be healed to thy eternal rejoicing. Touch once the hem of Christ's garment, adore his foutstoole, cleave unto the altar, and if thou find not comfort of conscience, ease of heart, and light of truth, never credet me more. Prove once what is In horto concluso, Cantic. 4. & font signato, in the garden enclosed, & the wellspring so surely sealed up. join with the Saints in heaven, with the souls in Purgatory, with the fathers of thy faith in earth, with all holy THE ARGUMENTS OF every Chapter of both the Books. Of the first Book. THe Preface, where in be noted two sorts of heretics: the one pretending virtue, the other openly professing vice. And that our time is more troubled by this second sort. With a brief note of the Author's principal intent in this Treatise. Pref. argu. pag. 10. chapter 1 That often after our sins be forgiven by the sacrament of penance, there remaineth some due of temporal punishment, for the satisfying of God's justice, and some recompense of the oftensies past. 31. chapter 2 The double and doubtful shifts of our adversaries pressed by this conclusion, are removed: and it is proved against one sort, that these foresaid skourgies were in deed punishments for sins remitted. And against the other sect, that this transitory pain hath often endured in the next life. 43. chapter 3 That the practice of Christ's Church, in the court of binding and losing man's sins, doth lively set forth the order of Gods justice in the next life, and prove Purgatory. 65. chapter 4 That the many fold works & fruits of penance, which all godly men have charged themselves with all, for their own sins remitted, were in respect of Purgatory pains, & for the avoiding of God's judgement temporal as well as eternal, in the next life. 74. chapter 5 A brief joining in reason and argument upon the proved grounds, with the adversaries, for the declaration and proof of Purgatory. 89. chapter 6 That Purgatory pains doth not only serve God's justice for the punishment of sin, but also cleanse & qualify the soul of man defiled, for the more seemly entrance into the holy placies: with conference of certain texts of scriptures for that purpose. 92. chapter 7 That there is a particular judgement and private account to be made at every man's departure, of his several acts and deeds, with certain of the father's minds touching the texts of scriptures alleged before. 103. chapter 8 Origen is alleged for our cause, upon whose error in a matter somewhat appertaining to our purpose, S. Augustins judgement is more largely sought: and there with, it is declared by testimony of divers holy authors, what sins be chief purged in that temporal fire. 114. chapter 9 A further declaration of this point, for the better understanding of the doctor's words. Wherein it is opened how Purgatory is ordained for mortal sins, and how for smaller offences: who are like to feel that grief, and who not at all. 125. chapter 10 A place alleged for Purgatory out of S. Matthew, with certain of the ancient father's judgements upon the same. 132. chapter 11 An answer to certain objections of the adversaries, moved upon the diversity of meanings which they see given in the father's writings, of the scriptures before alleged for Purgatory: and that this doctrine of the Church standeth not against the sufficiency of Christ's Passion. 148. chapter 12 An evident and most certain demonstration of the truth of Purgatory: and the grievousness thereof, uttered by the prayers and words of the holy doctors, and by some extraordinary works of God beside. 156. chapter 13 Of the nature and condition of Purgatory fire: the difference of their state that be in it, from the damned in hell: with the conclusion of this Book. 169. THE ARGUMENTS OF THE Chapters of the second book. THe preface of this book, wherein the matter of the treatise, & the order of the authors proceeding, be briefly opened. 180 chapter 1 That there be certain sins, which may be forgiven in the next life, and that the deserved punishment for the same, may be eased, or utterly released, before the extreme sentence be to the utmost executed. pag. 187. chapter 2 That the faithful souls in purgatory being now past the state of deserving, and not in case to help themselves, may yet receive benefit by the works of the living, to whom they be perfectly knit, as fello● members of one body. 197. chapter 3 What the Church of God hath ever principally practised for the souls departed, by the warrant of holy Scripture: with the defence of the Maccabees holy history, against the heretics of our tyme. 205. chapter 4 That the funerals of the patriarchs, both in the la of nature, and Moses, and Christ, had practise in them for the relief of the souls departed. 220. chapter 5 Man may be relieved after his departure, either by the alms which he gave in his life time, or by that which is provided by his testament to be given after his death, or else by that alms, which other men do bestow for his soul's sake, of their own goods. 238. chapter 6 Of certain offerings or public alms presented to God for the deceased, in the time of the holy sacrifice, at men's burials, & other customable days of their memories: and of the sundry minds kept in the primitive Church for the departed. 266. chapter 7 That the benefit of prayer & alms appertaineth not to such as die in mortal sin, though in the doubtful case of man's being, the Church useth to pray for all departed in Christ's faith. 271. chapter 8 What that holy sacrifice is, which was ever counted so beneficial to the live and dead. The punishment of our sins by the heavy loss thereof. The great hatred which the devil and all his side, hath ever borne towards Christ's eternal priesthood, and the sacrifice of the Church. And that by the said sacrifice of the Mass, the souls departed are especially relieved. 288. chapter 9 That the practice of any point in religion maketh the most open show of the father's faith. And that all holy men have in plain words, and most godly prayers uttered their belief in our matter. 304. chapter 10 That we & all nations, received this usage of praying & sacrificing for the departed, at our first conversion to Christ's faith. And that this article was not only confirmed by miracle amongst the rest, but severally by signs and wonders approved by itself. And that the Church is grown to such beauty by the fruit of this faith. 328. chapter 11 That in every order or usage of celebration of the blessed Sacrament and Sacrifice, throughout the Christian world, since Christ's time, there hath been a solemn supplication for the souls departed. 347. chapter 12 The heretics of our time and country, be yet further urged with the practice of prayers for the deceased, their contrary communion is compared with the old usage of celebration: ●hey are ashamed of the first original of their Christian faith, they are weary of their own service, they are kept in order by the wisdom of the civil Magistrates, and are forced to refuse all the doctors. 364. chapter 13 That the praying for the dead was appointed to be had in the holy sacrifice, by the Apostles commandment and prescription: And that our doctors by the majesty of their name, bear down our light adversaries. 386. chapter 14 The first author of that sect which denieth prayers for the departed is noted, his good conditions and cause of his error be opened, what kind of men have been most bend in all ages to that sect. And that this heresy is ever joined as a fit companion to other horrible sects. 407. chapter 15 Their falsehood is condemned, and the Catholic truth approved by the authority of holy councils. Their pride in contemning, & the Catholics humility in obedient receiving the same. And a sleight whereby the heretics deceive the people, is detected. 424. chapter 16 An answer to such arguments as the heretics do frame of the holy scriptures not well understanded, against the practice of God's Church, in praying for the dead, or the doctrine of Purgatory. 436. chapter 17 An answer to their negative argument, with the Conclusion of the book. 448. FINIS.