A DIALOGUE concerning Witches and Witchcrafts.  
In which is laid open how craftily the Devil deceiveth not only the Witches but many other and so leadeth them awry into many great errors.  
By George Giffard Minister of God's word in Maldon.  
LONDON. Printed by john Windet for Toby Cook and Mihil Hart, and are to be sold in Paul's Churchyard, at the tigers head. 1593.   


AA   
TO THE RIGHT WORSHIPFUL MASTER RObert Clarke, one of her majesties Barons of her highness Court of Exchequer.  
Certain years now past, right Worshipful, I published a small Treatise concerning Witches, to lay open some of Satan's sleights, and subtle practices, lest the ignoranter sort should be carried awry and seduced more and more by them. The errors be far more gross, and the sins much greater, into which by means of Witches he seduceth multitudes, then in common opinion they be esteemed. It falleth out in many places even of a sudden, as it seemeth to me, and no doubt by the heavy judgement of God, that the Devils as it were let lose, do more prevail, then ever I have heard of. For when as men have set so light by the hearing of God's voice to be instructed by him, they are justly given over to be taught by the Devils, and to learn their ways. Satan is now heard speak, and believed. He speaketh by coniurors, by sorcerers, and by witches, and his word is taken. He deviseth a number of things to be done, and they are put in practice and followed. The high providence of God Almighty and sovereign rule over all, is set forth so unto us in the Scriptures, as that without him a Sparrow can not fall upon the ground. All the hairs of our head are numbered. The Devils would hurt and destroy with bodily harms, both men and beasts and other creatures: but all the Devils in Hell are so chained up and bridled by this high providence that they can not pluck the wing from one poor little Wren, without special leave given them from the ruler of the whole earth. And yet the Witches are made believe that at their request, and to pleasure them by fulfilling their wrath, their spirits do lame and kill both men and beasts. And then to spread this opinion among the people, these subtle spirits bewray them, and will have them openly confess that they have done such great things, which all the Devils at any man's request could never do. For if they could, they would not stay to be entreated. God giveth him power sometimes to afflict both men and beasts with bodily harms: If he can, he will do it, as entreated and sent by Witches, but for us to imagine either that their sending doth give him power, or that he would not do that which God hath given him leave to do, unless they should request and send him, is most absurd. There be many diseases in the bodies of men and beasts which he seethe will break forth unto lameness or unto death, he beareth the witches in hand he doth them: He worketh by his other sort of Witches, whom the people call cunning men and wise women to confirm all his matters, and by them teacheth many remedies, that so he may be sought unto and honoured as God. These things taking root in the hearts of the people, and so making them afraid of Witches, and raising up suspicions and rumours of sundry innocent persons, many guiltless are upon men's oaths condemned to death, and much innocent blood is shed. How subtly he continueth these matters, I have to my small skill laid open in this slender Treatise. I have done it in way of a Dialogue, to make the fit for the capacity of the simpler sort. I am bold to offer it unto your Worship, not unto one as needeth to betaught in these things, being zealously affected to the Gospel, & so grounded in the faith of the high providence, that I have been delighted to hear and see the wise and godly course used upon the seat of justice by your Worship, when such have been arraigned. I offer it therefore as a testimony of a thankful mind for favours and kindness showed towards me: and so entreat your Worship to accept of it. If it may do good unto any of the weaker sort in knowledge I shall be glad. If I err in any thing being showed it, I will be ready to correct it.  
Your Worships in all duties to command. George Giffard.   
THE SPEAKERS. Samuel. Daniel. The wife of Samuel. M. B. Schoolmaster. The good wife R. Sam. 
YOu are well met old acquaintance, I am glad to see you look so well, how do all our good friends in your Country.  Dan. 
I trust they be all in good health, they were when I came from home, I am sorry to see you look so pale, what have you been sick lately?  Sam. 
Truly no, I thank God I have had my health prettily well, but yet me think my meat doth me no good of late.  Dan. 
What is the matter man, do you take thought and care for the world▪ take heed of that, for the Scripture saith, worldly sorrow worketh death. 2. Cor. 7.10. It is a great sin rising from unbeleéfe, and distrust in God's providence, when men be over pensive for the world.  Sam. 
In deed my mind is troubled, but not for that which you say, for I hope in God I shall not want so long as I live.  Dan. 
Is it any trouble of conscience for sin? If it be, that may turn to good.  Sam. 
O, no, no. I know no cause why.  Dan. 
Why, what is it then, if I may be so bold, I pray you tell me. I think you take me for your friend.  Sam. 
In deed I have always found you my very good friend, and I am sure you will give me the best counsel you can, truly we dwell here in a bad country, I think even one of the worst in England.  Dan. 
Is it so? I think you dwell in a fine country, in a sweet wholesome air, and fruitful grounds.  Sam. 
Air man? I find no fault with the air, there be naughty people▪  Dan. 
Naughty people? where shall a man dwell, and not find them? swearers, liars, railers, slanderers, drunkards, adulterers, riotous, unthrifts, dicers, and proud high minded persons, are every where to be found in great plenty.  Sam. 
Nay, I do not mean them, I care not for them. These witches, these evil favoured old witches do trouble me.  Dan. 
What do you take yourself to be bewitched?  Sam. 
No, no, I trust no evil spirit can hurt me, but I hear of much harm done by them: they lame men and kill their cattle, yea they destroy both men and children. They say there is scarce any town or village in all this shire, but there is one or two witches at the least in it. In good sooth, I may tell it to you as to my friend, when I go but into my closes, I am afraid, for I see now and then a Hare; which my conscience giveth me is a witch, or some witch's spirit, she stareth so upon me. And sometime I see an ugly weasel run through my yard, and there is a foul great cat sometimes in my Barn, which I have no liking unto.  Dan. 
You never had no hurt done yet, had you by any witch?  Sam. 
Trust me I cannot tell, but I fear me I have, for there be two or three in our town which I like not, but especially an old woman, I have been as careful to please her as ever I was to please mine own mother, and to give her ever anon one thing or other, and yet me thinks she frowns at me now and then. And I had a hog which eat his meat with his fellows and was very well to our thinking over night, and in the morning he was stark dead. My wife hath had five or six hens even of late dead. Some of my neighbours wish me to burn some thing alive, as a hen or a hog. Others will me in time to seek help at the hands of some cunning man, before I have any further harm. I would be glad to do for the best.  Dan. 
Have you any cunning man hereabout, that doth help?  Sam. 
There is one, they say, here a twenty miles of at T. B. which hath holp many. And thus much I know, there was one of mine acquaintance but two miles hence, which had great losses, he lost two or three kine; six hogs, he would not have took fifteen shillings a hog for them, and a mare. He went to that same man, and told him he suspected an old woman in the parish. And I think he told me, that he showed him her in a Glass, and told him she had three or four imps, some call them puckrels, one like a grey cat, an other like a weasel, an other like a mouse, a vengeance take them, it is great pity the country is not rid of them, and told him also what he should do, it is half a year ago, and he never had any hurt since. There is also a woman at R. H. five and twenty miles hence, that hath a great name, and great resort there is daily unto her. A neighbour of mine had his child taken lame, a girl of ten years old, and such a pain in her back, that she could not sit upright. He went to that woman, she told him he had some bad neighbour, the child was forespoken, as he suspected; marry if he would go home, and bring her some of the clothes which the child lay in all night, sheé would tell him certainly. He went home, and put a table Napkin about her neck all night, and in the morning took it with him, and she told him the girl was bewitched in deed, and so told him what he should do, and he had remedy, the girl is as well at this day, and a pretty quick girl. There was another of my neighbours had his wife much troubled, and he went to her, and she told him, his wife was haunted with a Fairy. I cannot tell what she bade him do, but the woman is merry at this hour. I have heard, I dare▪ not say it is so, that she weareth about her Saint john's Gospel, or some part of it.  Dan. 
If you have such cunning men and women, what need you be so much afraid?  Sam. 
Alas man, I could teem it to go and some counsel me to go to the man at T. B. and some to the woman at R. H. And between them both I have lingered the time, and fear I may be spoiled before I get remedy. Some wish me to beat and claw the witch until I fetch blood on her, and to threaten her that I will have her hanged, if I knew which were the best I would do it.  Dan. 
I perceive your danger is between two stools.  Sam. 
It is very true, if I had heard but of one, I should have gone ere this time, and I am glad that I met with you. I pray you let me have your best counsel; I trust you bear me good will.  Dan. 
Truly I will give you the best counsel I can, which I am sure shall do you good, if you will follow it, for in deed I pity your case, it is most certain you are bewitched.  Sam. 
Bewitched, do you think I am bewitched? I feel no harm in my body, you make me more afraid.  Dan. 
Nay I do not think that the old woman hath bewitched you, or that your body is bewitched, but the devil hath bewitched your mind, with blindness and unbeleéfe, to draw you from God, even to worship himself, by seeking help at the hands of devils. It is a lamentable case to see how the devil hath bewitched thousands at this day to run after him: and even to offer sacrifice unto him.  Sam. 
I defy the devil, worship him? fie upon him, I hate him with all my heart. Do you think any seek help at his hands? we seek help against him. I think he never doth good he hurteth, but he never helpeth any.  Dan. 
It is not in these matters to be taken as we imagine, but as the word of God teacheth. What though a man think he worshippeth not devils nor seeketh not help at their hands, as he is persuaded, nor hath any such intent, is he ever the near, when as yet it shall be found by God's word, that he doth worship them, and seék unto them for help?  Sam. 
Do you think then that there be no witches? Doth not God suffer wicked people to do harm? Or do you think that the cunning men do help by the devil? I would be glad to reason with you, but I have small knowledge in the scriptures. We have a Schoolmaster that is a good pretty scholar, they say, in the Latin tongue, one M. B. he is gone to my house even now, I pray you let me entreat you to go thither, you two may reason the matter, for you are learned.  Dan. 
I could be content, but it will ask some time, and I am going to such a place upon special business.  Sam. 
I pray you let me entreat you: Four or five hours is not so much.  Dan. 
Well, I will go with you.  Sam. 
Wife, I have brought an old friend of mine, I pray thee bid him welcome.  The wife. 
He is very welcome. But truly man, I am angry with you, and half out of patience, that you go not to seek help against yonder same old beast I have another hen dead this night. Other men can seek remedy. Here is M. B. tells me, that the good wife R. all the last week could not make her butter come. She never rested until she had got her husband out to the woman at R. H. and when he came home, they did but heat a spit red hot, and thrust into the cream, using certain words, as she willed him, and it came as kindly as any butter that ever she made. I met the old filth this morning, Lord, how sourly she looked upon me, & mumbled as she went, I heard part of her words. Ah (quoth she) you have an honest man to your husband, I hear how he doth use me. In truth, husband, my stomach did so rise against her, that I could have found in my heart to have flown upon her, and scratched her, but that I feared she would be too strong for me. It is a lusty old quean. I wished that the good wife R. had been with me. I pray you, good husband, let me entreat you to go to that same good woman, you may ride thither in half a day.  Sam. 
Wife, I pray thee be content, I have entreated this mine old friend to reason with M. B. for he tells me that we be in a very foul error.  M. B. 
I suppose, so far as my learning and capacity do extend, that small reasoning may serve. The word of God doth show plainly that there be witches, & commandeth they should be put to death. Experience hath taught too too many, what harms they do. And if any have the gift to minister help against them, shall we refuse it? Shall we not drink when we are a thirst? Shall we not warm us when we are a cold? It is pity that any man should open his mouth any way to defend them, their impiety is so great.  Dan. 
For my part, I go not about to defend witches. I deny not but that the devil worketh by them, And that they ought to be put to death. We ought also to seek remedy against them: but as I told my friend, the devil doth bewitch men by means of these witches, and lead them from God, even to follow himself, to offer sacrifice unto him to worship him, to obey his will, to commit many grievous sins, and to be drowned in manifold errors.  M. B. 
If you have this meaning, that witches and sorcerers are bewitched by the devil, that they forsake God, and follow him, that they worship and obey him, and do sacrifice unto him, and commit many heinous sins, I agree with you, for I take it, they even vow themselves to the devil, or else he would not be so ready to do them service. But if you mean, that such as seek remedy against them, & would have them rooted out, be so seduced and misled by the devil, as you speak, I say your speech is rash and foolish, for they that be earnest against witches, be earnest against the devil, they defy the devil, they seek to resist him, and to root out his instruments. Now, if you were a man that had any learning, you should see, that contraries cannot be in the same subject, at one instant, in the same part, and in the same respect: how then can a man hate the devil, defy the devil and his works, and yet follow him at one time?  Dan. 
I know that witches and conjurers are seduced and become the vassals of Satan: they be his servants, and not he theirs, as you speak. But I mean indeed that multitudes are seduced and led from God, to follow the devil, by means of witches & conjurers: yea, I speak it of those, not which are carried of a godly zeal, but of a blind rage and mad fury against them. If I speak this rashly and foolishly, as you say, and yourself learned as you boast, and I unlearned, I shall be the more easily overthrown. But I speak so truly, and can so well justify all that I have said by the word of God, that your learning and best skill, shall not be able to disprove the same. Your logic at the first doth fail you. Not that contraries can be in the same subject at the same instant, in the same part, and in the same respect. But herein you are utterly blind and deceived, that you name contraries, and take it that the first of them, as namely to hate the devil, to defy him and his works, are in them, when as indeed they are in them but in imagination. For if men say and think they defy the devil and his works, and through blindness and infidelity, are even bewitched, and seduced to follow the devil, and to do his will, doth their speech and blind imagination make the things indeed to be in them? What if a poor beggar woman say and think that she is a Queen: is she therefore no beggar, begging still her bread? or is she rid of her louse?  M. B. 
Nay, if you judge, I have done. If men be earnest against the devil, and defy him and all his works, are you to judge of their conscience, and to say they defy him but in imagination, and follow him, and worship him in deed? is not God alone the judge over men's hearts? Again, do you compare those that are in their right mind, with such as be mad, or out of their wits?  Dan. 
I know that God alone is the searcher of the heart, touching the things which lie hid in secret: But where things are open and manifest, the tree is known by the fruits, so far as we may go. As if a man profess the faith of jesus Christ soundly, in all points according to the word of God, and doth frame his life thereafter in doing good works: it is very wicked for any man to judge of him, that he is an hypocrite, and that he doth all of vain glory. And yet it may be that the Lord, who discerneth the secret intents of the heart, seethe indeed that he is but an hypocrite. On the contrary part, where a man professeth in words that he doth defy the devil and all his works, and yet when it cometh to the trial of God's word, he is found to be seduced, and wrapped in blind errors of the devil, in infidelity, and evil works, in which he fulfilleth the will of Satan, and honoureth him in the place of God: Shall we say that this is a good man because of his words and imagination, that he defieth the devil and his works? Woe be to them that call good evil, and evil good. Esa. 5. We may say they are in bad case, except they repent, and turn from following Satan. But yet I say, that a faithful man may err in some of these things through weakness of faith, and through ignorance. And therefore, here men may not be too rash in judgement. And now whereas you find fault, that I make comparison between such as be mad and those that be in their right mind▪ it is your ignorance, which do not consider that there be two kinds of madness, or being out of their right mind, the one for matters of this world, the other for things spiritual and heavenly. There be which are in their wits for this world, which touching spiritual things are as far awry in their imaginations, as the poor beggar, which thinketh she is a goodly queen. Doth not the holy Apostle say, that because men receive not the love of the truth, God will send them strong delusion to believe lies. 2. Thess. 2. And what is that, but that Satan shall seduce, illude and bewitch their minds, to make them believe that they worship and follow God, when they worship and follow him?  M. B, 
Do you take that to be S. Paul's meaning? Doth Satan bewitch men's minds, and lead them into falsehood and error, making them believe they worship God, when they worship devils?  Dan. 
S. Paul speaketh there indeed of the coming of the great Antichrist in the power of the Devil. Now, those which are seduced and worship Antichrist▪ think they worship God: but mark what S. john saith, All the world wondered, and followed the beast, and worshipped the dragon which gave power to the beast: & they worshipped the beast. Revelat. 13. And look in the 12. chapter of the Revelation, and you shall find that the Dragon, which the Popery doth worship in stead of God, is the Devil.  M. B. 
Truly I like your words well, I am persuaded the devil doth seduce and bewitch men's minds: But touching these that seek help at the hands of cunning men and women against witches, I cannot think so hardly of them. I may be awry, I see well: I will not be obstinate, if the word of God show me mine error▪ Let us even friendly confer of the matter. Be not offended with me, and for my part, I will speak all that I know or think.  Dan. 
I must entreat you likewise to bear with my plain speeches. And let us in the matters proceed from one point to another, standing only upon that, wherein we shall be found to differ in judgement. And let God's word be the judge between us.  Sam. 
I like this well, though I can say but little, I will sit and hear you.  Dan. 
What is the first question that we shall handle?  M. B. 
I heard you say, if I did not mistake your speech that there be witches that work by the devil. But yet I pray you tell me, do you think there be such? I know some are of opinion there be none.  Dan. 
It is so evident by the Scriptures, and in all experience, that there be witches which work by the devil, or rather I may say, the devil worketh by them, that such as go about to prove the contrary, do show themselves but cavillers.  M. B. 
I am glad we agree in that point, I hope we shall in the rest. What say you to this? that the witches have their spirits, some hath one, some hath more, as two, three, four, or five, some in one likeness, and some in another, as like cats, weasils, toads, or mice, whom they nourish with milk, or with a chicken, or by letting them suck now and then a drop of blood: whom they call when they be offended with any, and send them to hurt them in their bodies; yea, to kill them, and to kill their cattle?  Dan. 
Here is great deceit, and great illusion, here the devil leadeth the ignorant people into foul errors, by which he draweth them headlong into many grievous sins.  M. B. 
Nay then I see you are awry, if you deny these things, and say they be but illusions. They have been proved, and proved again, even by the manifold confessions of the witches themselves. I am out of all doubt in these, and could in many particulars lay open what hath fallen out. I did dwell in a village within these five years, where there was a man of good wealth, and suddenly within ten days space, he had three kine died, his gelding worth ten pounds fell lame, he was himself taken with a great pain in his back, & a child of seven years old died. He sent to the woman at R. H. and she said he was plagued by a witch, adding moreover, that there were three women witches in that town, and one man witch: willing him to look whom he most suspected: he suspected one old woman, and caused her to be carried before a justice of Peace and examined: with much a do at the last she confessed all: Which was this in effect: that she had three spirits: one like a cat, which she called Lightfoot, another like a Toad, which she called Lunch, the third like a Weasill, which she called Makeshift. This Lightfoot, she said, one mother Barley of W. sold her above sixteen years ago, for an oven cake and told her the Cat would do hergood service, if she would, she might send her of her errand: this Cat was with her but a while, but the Weasill and the Toad came and offered their service: The Cat would kill kine, the Weasil would kill horses, the Toad would plague men in their bodies. She sent them all three (as she confessed) against this man: She was committed to the prison, and there she died before the Assizes. I could tell you of many such: I had no mind to dwell in that place any longer.  Dan. 
You mistake me, I do not mean that the things are not, but my meaning is, that the devil by such things both beguile and seduce ignorant men, and lead them into errors and grievous sins. And let us examine every parcel of that which you set down in your speech, and you shall see no less.  M. B. 
That is it which I would feign see: You confess they have spirits, some one, some more, and in such likenesses: what error be the people led into by that?  Dan. 
First, consider this that there be multitudes & armies of devils, as we see in the gospel, that many devils were entered into one man, & Christ saying, What is thy name? answer is made, Legion, for we are many. Mark. 5. Now, although the devils be many, yet they be all carried with such hatred against God, with such desire to have him dishonoured and blasphemed, and burn with such bloody malice and cruelty against men, that they bend their study all together, one helping and furthering another what they can in their work: in so much that the Scripture doth speak of them, as if they were but one devil: for S. Peter saith, Your adversary the devil goeth about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. 1. Pet. 5. And in the Revelation chapter 12. all the devils make that great red dragon: And our Saviour doth show how close they join in one, when he saith, If Satan be divided against Satan, or if Satan cast forth Satan, how shall his kingdom endure Matth. 12. now then, whether the witch deal, as she supposeth, with one spirit, or with many, it cometh all to one effect, thus far, that one dealeth not alone, but with the help of others. So that he or she that hath familiarity with one devil, it is as much as if it were with an hundredth. Moreover, the devils be spirits, they have no bodily shape or likeness but yet can make an appearance of a shape, as appeareth by the enchanters before Pharaoh, when their rods were turned into serpents in show. Exod. 7. And then one devil can seém to be four or five, and four or five can seem to be one: It is therefore but the craft of Satan, to make show of more or less.  M. B. 
Do you not think then, that where the more devils be, there is the greater power of Satan?  Dan. 
Yes, but it can not be discerned by his appearing to the witch in show of more or less: For one can seem ten unto her, and ten can seem one.  M. B. 
Well, I do not mislike all this, I pray you proceed forward.  Dan. 
Then further mark well how the holy Scriptures do paint out the devils to be mighty terrible spirits, full of power, rage, and cruelty, compared to a great fiery red dragon, Revel. 12. to a greedy or hungry lion, that roareth after the pray, 1. Pet. 5. And called by S. Paul Principalities, and Powers, the Rulers of the darkness of this world: now, when they take upon them the shapes of such paltry vermin, as Cats, Mice, Toads, and Weasels, it is even of subtlety to cover and hide his mighty tyranny, and power which he exerciseth over the hearts of the wicked. It is most necessary for us all to know, what strong adversaries we have to encounter withal, that we may fly unto the Lord God, and seek to be armed with his power against them.  M. B. 
Well, what will you infer upon this? I cannot deny but that the scriptures do paint out the devils to be mighty terrible spirits, and so they may be, although they appear but like Cats or weasils.  Dan. 
I do not say they be not mighty and terrible because they appear in such shapes, but I affirm, that their appearing so, is to cover and hide their mightiness and effectual working, which they exercise in the dark hearts of men. And mark well I pray you, the power of devils is in the hearts of men, as to harden the heart, to blind the eyes of the mind, and from the lusts and concupiscences which are in them, to inflame them unto wrath, malice, envy, and cruel murders: to puff them up in pride, arrogancy and vain glory: to entice them unto wantonness, and whoredoms, and all uncleanness. And about these things they work continually, and with such efficacy, that without the power of the glorious passion and resurrection of our Lord jesus Christ, which we have by faith, they cannot be withstood, and they will seem to be but mean fellows, busied about making drink that it shall not work in the fat, in keéping cheése from running, and butter from coming, in kill hens or hogs, or making men lame.  M. B. 
May they not do both the one and the other?  Dan. 
Yea, but this is my meaning, that while they be occupied about the greatest things, as in stirring up Tyrants and wicked men to persecute, to reproach and blaspheme the Gospel, which pulleth them down, to set division and wars between kingdoms and kings, hatred and discord betweéns man and wife, and contention between brethren: yea, to set all in a broil and confusion: they would seem to be busied about trifles, and about these they busy men's minds, that they may not observe and take heed of them in those other.  M. B. 
I perceive your meaning, but yet I do not conceive whereunto you chief tend: for do not they which look upon these harms done by witches, confess that the devil doth all those things which you mention?  Dan. 
The ignorant sort, which are so terrified by witches, do in words after a sort, confess so much as you say, but when it cometh to the matter, they deny it in effect. For mark this, the devils continually compass the soul of man about, to shoot it full of their fiery darts. Ephes. 6. even to wound it to death with all wicked sins. The devil goeth about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 1. Pet. 5. And they by this craft which they use by means of the witches, make the blind people imagine that they never come nigh them, but when the witches are angry and do send them, and that they are easily driven away when they do come, as by burning some quick thing, as hen, or hog, or by beating and drawing blood upon the witch. Such people as can thus drive him away, or by thrusting a spit red hot into their cream, are far from knowing the spiritual battle, in which we are to war under the banner of Christ against the devil, much less do they know how to put on (as S. Paul willeth) the whole armour of God, to resist and overcome him. Ephes. 6. He may deal with their souls even as he listeth, when they take him not present but upon such sending, and where such hurt doth follow in their bodies or goods.  M. B. 
I do not deny, but that the devils seek chief for to destroy the souls of men: But (as I take it) you confess, that they being sent by the witches, do also those bodily harms: and as yet I see no reason why they may not seek remedy against such harms, and drive him away by any good means: doth the word of God forbidden us to use means? If I be sick, shall I not take physic? If I be thirsty, shall I not drink? Indeed I am of your mind, though I did never mark so much before, that the devil dealeth subtly in this, that by dealing in such small matters, he covereth himself in the greater, as though he came not near, nor did not meddle but in such manner: But here standeth the case, I resist him in those greater, may I not also use those helps which drive him away in the lesser? I will if I can drive him away in all things.  Dan. 
Now the devils are sent by the witches, and how they do those bodily harms, we are not yet come unto, and there lie two of the chief subtleties of the devil in them, by which he deceiveth the multitude. But by occasion we are fallen into the mention of remedy to drive them away▪ Because (I say) such as thus drive him away, know not the spiritual battle, much less how to put on the whole armour of God to overcome the devil: Order doth require that we speak first of his sending, and then of those bodily harms which he doth, & afterward of these means which are used to repel him. Let us therefore step one step back again, if you agree to the rest which I have spoken.  M. B. 
With a good will: for so we shall omit no part. But I thought we had fully agreed in this, that the witches do send their spirits, and do many harms both unto men and beasts: because we have it confirmed by daily experience: and unless you will deny that which is manifest, I doubt not but we shall accord in these.  Dan. 
I say the witches do send their spirits.  M. B. 
What shall we neéd then to stand upon that point in which we are agreed?  Dan. 
yes though we agree that they send them, yet we may dissent in divers things about this sending. As first, tell me, whether do you think that the witch or the Devil is the servant, which of them commandeth, and which obeyeth?  M. B. 
How can I tell that? It is thought he becometh her servant, and where she is displeased, and would be revenged, she hireth him for to do it. The witches themselves have confessed thus much: and for my part, I think no man can disprove it.  Dan. 
They that do the will of God are the children and servants of God. And they which fulfil the lusts of the devil, and obey him, are his children & his servants, joh. 8. vers. 44. Act. 13. vers. 10. Are they not?  M. B. 
I grant all this?  Dan. 
The devils are the rulers of the darkness of this world. Ephes. 6. ver. 12.  M. B. 
The text is plain.  Dan. 
The darkness of this world, is not meant of the darkness of the night, which is but the shadow of the earth, but it is the spiritual darkness, which consisteth in the ignorance of God, in infidelity, and in sin.  M. B. 
I am of your mind in this also.  Dan. 
And do you not think then that the devil hath his throne, his dominion and kingdom in the hearts of ignorant blind infidels?  M. B. 
I must neéds think he hath, the word of God doth force me thereunto: seeing he is the Prince of darkness.  Dan. 
And is there any greater infidelity and darkness in any, than in witches, conjurers, and such as have familiarity with devils?  M. B. 
I take it they be the deepest overwhelmed in darkness and infidelity of all other.  Dan. 
Lay all these things together which you confess, and see whether it doth not follow upon the same, that the witch is the vassal of the devil, and not he her servant; he is Lord and commandeth, and she is his drudge and obeyeth.  M. B. 
Yea, although he be Lord, yet he is content to serve her turn, and the witches confess, they call them forth and send them: and that they hire them to hurt such in their bodies, and in their cattle, as they be displeased withal.  Dan. 
I am sorry you are so far awry, it is pity any man should be in such error, especially a man that hath learning, and should teach others knowledge.  M. B. 
Nay, I may return this upon you, for if you will deny this, it is but a folly to reason any further: I will never be driven from that which I know: There was one old mother W. of great T. which had a spirit like a a Weasill: she was offended highly with one H. M. home she went, and called forth her spirit, which lay in a pot of will under her bed, she willed him to go plague the man: he required what she would give him, and he would kill H. M. She said she would give him a cock, which she did, and he went, and the man fell sick with a great pain in his belly, languished and died: the witch was arraigned, condemned, and hanged, and did confess all this.  Dan. 
I told you before that I do not deny these things, but you are deceived about the doing: you mark not the cunning sleights of the devil: Tell me, is not this the truth which S. Peter speaketh, that the devil goeth about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 1. Pet. 5.  M. B. 
What then?  Dan. 
What then? can you be so simple as to imagine that the devil lieth in a pot of wool, soft and warm, and stirreth not, but when he is hired and sent? The devils conspire together in their work, they bestir them, and never take rest night nor day: they are never weary, they be not a cold, they care not for lying soft: These be fooleries by which he deceiveth the witches, and bewitcheth the minds of many ignorant people: And whereas you say he is hired, it is but deceit: for, let me ask you two or three questions or more if neéd be.  M. B. 
What be your questions?  Dan. 
You say the witch cometh home angry, who hath kindled this wrath in her heart but the devil? Who inflameth her mind with malice, to be revenged, and to do mischief but the devil? doth not he rule in her heart? Tell me what you think of this?  M. B. 
I must needs confess he stirreth her up to wrath and malice.  Dan. 
Then he lieth not at home in his pot of wool: nor he is not hired to this: hitherto she is his drudge, and obeyeth him, and not he her, being led by his suggestion. Then tell me, is not the devil like a red or fiery dragon, Revel. 12. burning in malice against God, and with all bloody and cruel hatred that may be against men? And is he not far readier unto all mischief, than any man or woman?  M. B. 
The devil is more fierce than any man or woman; none can deny this.  Dan. 
If none can deny this, and he be the worker of the wrath and malice in the heart of the witch; then what needeth he to be hired? he stirreth her up, and if he would, he could turn her mind from sending him, and must he he hired? doth he care for a cock or a chicken? Is he hungry or needeth he somewhat to eat?  M. B. 
Nay, but it is thought he taketh those things to witness against the witch that she is his.  Dan. 
Let it be, there were somewhat in that which you speak, yet he hath a far deéper reach; for the truth is, he would, and doth persuade the blind people, that he meddleth little, but when he is even hired and sent, and that than his meddling is but in such matters: And hereupon all is on a broil against old women, which can any ways be suspected to be witches, as if they were the very plagues of the world, and as if all would be well, and safe from such harms, if they were rooted out, and thus they fall a rooting out without all care▪ for it is thought that the witch which hath her spirits, is even like a man which hath cursed dogs, which he may set upon other men's cattle, which yet in the nature of dogs, would never stir but when they are bidden: and so the harms do come from the man which oweth those dogs. They think that the country might be rid of such spirits, if there were none to hoister them, or to set them a work. They imagine that they and their cattle should then go safe. Alas poor creatures, how they be deluded? how little do they understand the high providence of almighty God which is over all.  M. B. 
Do you think then that witches ought not to be rooted out? or do you think it were not much safety to the country from harms, if it could be rid of them?  Dan. 
For the rooting out of witches, the Scripture is plain. Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live: but we are not yet come to that point. But whether they be to be rooted out that men may be safe from harms, as the people in fury and blindness imagine, that is next.  M. B. 
Men feel the smart and the harms which they do, and it is no marvel, though they be earnest to have them rooted out, and a good riddance it were if the whole land could be set free from them.  Sam. 
Truly M. B. I am of your mind, I would they were all hanged up one against another: we should not (I hope) stand in such fear of their spirits. But I interrupt you too.  The wife. 
They that would not have them hanged or burnt, I would they might even witch them unto hell. If I had but one faggot in the world, I would carry it a mile upon my shoulders to burn a witch.  Dan. 
Well good woman, spare your faggot a while, and ease your shoulders, and let us reason the matter a little further? I pray you let me ask you this question, doth the witch or the devil the harm unto men and cattle?  M. B. 
Why, the devil doth it at their sending▪ though I confess it must needs be as you said, that the devil worketh all in the mind of the witch, & moveth her to send him.  Dan. 
The devil hath a kingdom, but it is in darkness and corruption of sin. He hath no right nor power over God's creatures, no not so much as to kill one fly, or to take one ear of corn out of any man's barn, unless power be given him. You know when Christ cast the devils out of the man possessed, they ask leave for to go into the heard of swine. Then tell me, who giveth the devil this power then, when the witch sendeth him, to kill or to lame man or beast? doth the witch give it him? Do you think he had power to do harm, but no mind till she moved him? Or do you take it that her sending giveth him power, which he had not?  M. B. 
It is a question indeed worth the ask: For doubtless, the devil hath not power until it be given him, to touch any creature, to hurt, or to destroy the body, but only to tempt and to lead into sin: I am also sure that the witch cannot give him power, but only God above.  Dan. 
Lay these two together then, that the devil only hurteth, and that none can give him power, neither man nor woman, but only God, and tell me whether the people be not wonderfully carried awry in a rage. For, when as they should consider, that the devil is the lords executioner: And then finding that he hath any power given him to molest, to hurt and vex them in their bodies or goods, to know certainly it cometh from the Lord, and then gather from thence (as the truth is) that the Lord is displeased with them for their offences. And so seek unto him▪ humbly craving pardon and deliverance from this enemy, seeking to be armed with the mighty power of faith, to cast him forth, and to resist him, as the Lord willeth, 1. Pet. 5 Here is no such matter, no looking so high among the people, but running deéper into error, and into sin, as if the witches did it, and that it cometh from their anger and not from their own sins and infidelity, here is no repentance, no humbling themselves by fasting and prayer, but running for help unto devils, using means which those devils by the cunning men & women appoint, scratching and clawing, thirsting often after guiltless blood as raging against those whomethey imagine to be witches, which many times are not, because they imagine, that if there were no witches, there should be no such plagues. As if they had no foul sins nor unbeleéfe, or that there remained not a just revenging God to punish, or as if he had not the devils still the executioners of his wrath.  M. B. 
Truly your words do make me afraid: for I am even guilty of th●se things myself, if they be so grievous, as you set them out: and by God's grace I will consider better of the matter: for I have counseled many to seék unto those cunning folks, and to use such helps as they prescribe, and you say, it is to seek help at devils. To see that point we shall come anon: now I would be resolved about somewhat in your last speech; as namely, do you clear the witches, because God, and not they, giveth the devil power, and do you think that the devils should kill men and their cattle, if they were not sent by witches? Should the harms still follow, if there were no witches?  Dan. 
That I say God alone, and not the witches, giveth power unto the devils to plague and torment: it is so evident as that I suppose a man shall hardly meet with any man so gross but will confess it. But this doth not clear the witches at all; for their sin is in dealing with devils, and that they imagine that their Spirits do those harms, requested and hired by them: when as indeed the devil, where he hath power given him to hurt, or where he knoweth death or grievous diseases will follow either in man or beast, setteth the witch in a rage, and moveth her to send him. Concerning your other question, I say, we shall find by the Scriptures, that if there were no witches at all, yet men should be plagued by the devils in their bodies and goods. For touching the godly, the Lord doth use Satan to afflict them in their bodies and in their goods, for to try their faith and patience: as the example of holy job doth testify in ample manner. It were vile folly and brutish to affirm, that witches did set on the devils to kill his children, and to plague his body▪ And I hold it no small folly, for any man to think that the Lord doth not now scourge his children, at the least some of them, for their good, by the devil. There is no doubt, but the devil having power given him to afflict, useth all the craft he can, and will seék to be sent by the witch, and so he will make it known, because it may seem to be not from God, but from the anger of a poor woman. And now touching the wicked, which provoke God by their wicked sins and unbelief, may we not read in the scriptures that an evil spirit was sent of God unto king Saul, which did haunt and vex him? Was this spirit sent by a witch? Or the devils in the Gospel, which entered into the heard of swine and drowned them? Did the Lord give them power, and send them, and shall we be so sottish as to think, that he sendeth not the devil now against ungodly men, to plague and to destroy them? As I said before, here is the deep craft of Satan, that he will covet to be sent by witches, whereas indeed God hath sent him, seeing none can send him but God. Again, we must consider that there be natural causes in the bodies of men and beasts of grievous torments and diseases, yea even causes of death. Now, they cannot be so secret, but the devil knoweth them, and even when they are like to take effect. Then doth he ply it with the witch, setteth her in a fury, she sendeth him, even upon this sending the man or the beast suddenly and strangely are tormented, fall lame, or die. Then the witch is suspected, examined, and confesseth that she killed such a man, or such a man's cattle, or made them lame. Here the people are set in a wonderful maze and astonishment, as if witches could plague men in their wrath, by sending their spirits, because they confess they did it, when their spirits do lie and had no power, but the torments came by natural causes. And to drive the people into a deéper madness in this, & to make them believe, that strange and sudden torments and languishing diseases come by witches, he hath his other sort of witches, the cunning men and women, which tell even upon his word, (which you know is to be trusted) that they be bewitched, that they be haunted with fairies, and that there be thus many witches thereabout, in every town some.  M. B. 
That is most true no doubt, which you speak, I do not for my part know how to gainsay any one point thereof. Only I wonder at the craftiness of the devils in these things, that where they have power granted unto them to hurt, they will be sent by the witches, as if they did it hired by them, and that you say where harms do follow men upon natural causes, that they can make show as though they did them. But are you of this mind, that there should be as many or all those harms done by devils, if there were no witches, as there be now? Although I must needs confess, that the witches can give the devil no power, nor he can take none by their sending: yet may it not be that God giveth them power oftener because of those witches dealing with them, than if there were no witches at all?  Dan. 
The craftiness of devils is such, as without the light of God's word, the wisest men under heaven must needs be deceived thereby. We see there be some men so deép in subtleties and can carry matters so close, that men can not discern them: how much more the devils, which are exceédingly subtle, & crafty above the subtilest men? the question which you ask is (in my judgement) somewhat hard: But this is undoubted, that if the Lord God do give unto the devils oftener power to hurt because of the witches, I mean because the devils do deal by such instruments, it is in his heavy judgement against the wickedness of the people, which despise the true and heavenly light of his word. As S. Paul (prophesying of the coming of the great Antichrist) showeth, that because men did not receive the love of the truth, God gave the devil power by Antichrist and his ministers, to seduce by lying signs and wonders. Indeed, I will not say that for the witch the devil hath power given him, but for the wickedness of the people, which deserve that by witches the devil should have power to seduce them further. Here yet we must take heed of the common error which a multitude are carried so headlong withal, that they can by no means see, that God is provoked by their sins to give the devil such instruments to work withal, but rage against the witch, even as if she could do all.  M. B. 
Surely, I should be a wretch to deny, that God giveth the devils power to plague and to seduce because of men's wickedness; but yet I would know whether a godly faithful man or woman may not be bewitched? Weé see the devil had power given him over job?  Dan. 
This example of job is not fit to prove that a godly man may be bewitched, seeing the devil is not said to deal by witches against him, but it doth prove, that not only the godly, but even the most godly (as holy job, who had none like him upon earth) may for their trial be given into the hands of Satan to be afflicted and tempted. And as I said, where Satan hath power granted him of God, to strike with bodily plagues any of the godly, for the trial of their faith and patience, he will covet, if he can bring it about, to be sent by some witch, and to have it known that he was sent. But the faithful are to turn their eyes from the witch, and to deal with God, for from him the matter cometh. When they be tried; the Lord in his good time will deliver them depending upon him, to their great praise and glory, even as valiant soldiers. It is therefore, of no great force, whether Satan come from the witch against the godly, or whether he have no witch to deal by: overcome thou the devil, and thou overcomest all. Indeed among the more ignorant sort he prevaileth much, when he toucheth those which embrace the lively word as sent from a witch. For many now do even quake and tremble, and their faith doth stagger. Hath heé power (think they) over such as be cunning in the scriptures, then what are they the better for their profession? the witch is on their bones as well as upon others. By this it might seem, and so they take it, that other helps and remedies are to be sought than by the scriptures. And so they run and seek help where they ought not.  M. B. 
Then I pray you, though I be already persuaded it is nought to seek to these cunning men for help against witches, yet let us confer a little of that. There be divers things which have persuaded me to think marvelous well of them, and even as of such as God hath given wisdom and skill unto, even for to do much good. For we see many receive help by them, and are delivered from the plagues which come by devils. And first, I would know how they can be so earnest against witches, if they deal with the devil, and so be indeed witches themselves? how can they have any mind in charity to do good, to take pity upon such as be in misery? Or how will Satan drive forth Satan? For they no doubt, drive out devils out of some.  Dan. 
I would come to answer your questions touching the seeking help at the hands of cunning men or women, but tell me first, are you resolved touching the sending of the spirits, and touching the harms that are done? Me think you slip too suddenly from these points?  M. B. 
I cannot tell whether I understand your meaning in every thing, but sure, I have been in error greatly I must needs confess. And if you please, we may stand somewhat longer in these questions.  Sam. 
Indeed it is my desire that you would speak a little plainer of these points: for I have marked well all your talk, and cannot well conceive of the last things you dealt in. With your leave M. B. I would ask two or three questions of my friend. Here was but seven miles hence at W. H. one M. the man was of good wealth, and well accounted of among his neighbours. He pined away with sickness half a year, and at last died. After he was dead, his wife suspected ill dealing: she went to a cunning man, I know not where, and desired to know whereof her husband died. He told her that her husband died of witchery: he asked her if she did not suspect any thereabout. She said there was one woman which she did not like, one mother W. her husband and she fell out, and he fell sick within two days after, and never recovered again. He showed her the woman as plain in a glass, as we see one another, and in the very apparel she went in at that hour, for she ware an old red cap with corners, such as women were wont to wear; and in that she appeared in the glass: He taught her how she might bring her to confess. Well, she followed his counsel, went home, caused her to be apprehended and carried before a justice of peace. He examined her so wisely, that in the end she confessed she killed the man. She was sent to prison, she was arraigned, condemned, and executed: And upon the ladder she seemed very penitent, desiring all the world to forgive her. She said she had a spirit in the likeness of a yellow dun cat. This cat came unto her, as she said, as she sat by her fire, when she was fallen out with a neighbour of hers, and wished that the vengeance of God might light upon him and his. The cat bade her not be afraid, she would do her no harm: She had served a dame five years in Kent, that was now dead, and if she would, she would be her servant. And whereas, said the Cat, such a man hath misused thee, if thou wilt I will plague him in his cattle She sent the Cat, she killed three hogs and one Cow. The man suspecting, burned a pig alive, and as she said, her cat would never go thither any more. Afterward she fell out with that M. she sent her Cat, who told her, that she had given him that, which he should never recover: and indeed the man died. Now do you not think the woman spoke the truth in all this? Would the woman accuse herself falsely at her death? Did not the Cat become her servant? Did not she send her? Did she not plague and kill both man and beast? What should a man think of this?  Dan. 
You propound a particular example, and let us examine every thing in it touching the witch, for the woman's fact that went to the wise man, we are not yet come to that point. You say the Cat came to her when she was in a great rage with one of her neighbours, and did curse, wishing the vengeance of God to fall upon him and his.  Sam. 
She said so indeed, I heard her with mine own ears, for I was at the execution.  Dan. 
Then tell me who set her in such a devilish rage, so to curse & ban, as to wish that the vengeance of God might light upon him and his? did not the Cat?  Sam. 
Truly I think the Devil wrought that in her.  Dan. 
Very well, than you see the Cat is the beginner of this play.  Sam. 
Called you it a play? It was no play to some.  Dan. 
Indeed the witch at last had better have wrought hard, than been at her play. But I mean Satan did play the juggler: For, doth he not offer his service? Doth he not move her to send him to plague the man? Tell me, is she so forward to send, as he is to be sent? Or do you not take it, that he ruleth in her heart, and even wholly directeth it to this matter?  Sam. 
I am fully persuaded he ruleth her heart.  Dan. 
Then was she his drudge, and not he her servant, he needeth not to be hired nor entreated, for if her heart were to send him any where, unto such as he knoweth he cannot hurt, nor seethe how to make any show that he hurteth them, he can quickly turn her from that. Well, the cat goeth and killeth the man, certain hogs and a Cow: how could she tell that the Cat did it?  Sam. 
How could she tell? why he told her man, and she saw and heard that he lost his cattle.  Dan. 
The Cat would lie, would she not? for they say such cats are liars.  Sam. 
I do not trust the Cat's words, but because the thing fell out so.  Dan. 
Because the hogs and the Cow died, are you sure the Cat did kill them, might they not die of some natural causes as you see both men and beasts are well, and die suddenly?  Sam. 
That were strange, if they should die of natural causes, and fall out so fit at the time after he was sent?  Dan. 
It is not strange at all, as mark what I tell you and you shall easily see. There be natural causes of tortures and grief, of lameness, and of death in the bodies of men and beasts, which lie so hid and secret, that the learneddest Physicians can not espy them, but the devil seéth them, and can conjecture very near the time, when they will take effect. Then doth he ply it, to bring the matter about that it may seem he did it. If he have any witch to deal by, he stirreth up some occasion to set her in a rage with that party: and then he will be sent, and telleth her he doth it. If he have no witch to deal by, yet he will set debate between the party and some other, whom he may bring into suspicion, as his greatest desire is to have innocent blood shed.  Sam. 
Here is a matter brought about indeed, how could the Cat do all this?  Dan. 
I told you before, that the devils work together, and can speédilie and most craftily compass things, which are far beyond the reach of man's capacity. But sometime the devil hath power given him to plague and doth the harm. Admit he had power given him, and did kill the cattle of this man: let us come now to that, who think you, gave him the power for to strike and kill? Did the witch give him the power, or the Lord God?  Sam. 
Nay surely, the witch cannot give him power.  Dan. 
Did he receive power after she sent him?  Sam. 
That cannot I tell.  Dan. 
Then mark a little: he hath power given him to plague this man in his goods: he will do it, but he will do it craftily. The Lord gave him power over the goods of holy job: he worketh by instruments, for he stirreth up the Sabeiss, and they take away his Oxen, and his Asses: he raiseth up also the Chaldeis, and they carry away his Camels, job. 1. Even so, having power to strike, he will be sent by a witch, he could do it without her, but he gaineth much that way, as we shall see when we come to speak of the remedies which men seek.  Sam. 
I wonder then that the man never had more hurt after he had burnt his pig alive?  Dan. 
O man, the Devil can abide no roast meat, nor no fire, he is afraid, if they fall a roasting, that they will roast him. If they run at him with a spit red hot, they gaster him so sore, that his dame shall go herself, if she will he will come no more there. But of these things we are to speak afterward in their place.  Sam. 
You make the devil wonderful subtle.  Dan. 
He is so subtle and full of all craft and sleight, that no earthly creature can escape from being seduced by him, without the light of God's heavenly word. But let us come now to the other man, whom the witch confessed she killed by her Cat.  Sam. 
Yea, that me thinketh is more than the other, the woman was told by the cunning man that her husband was killed by witchery. The witch confessed so much at her death. The Cat told the witch, that she killed him.  Dan. 
Here be a company of credible persons to be believed: the cunning man saith the man was bewitched to death. Who told him that?  Sam. 
His spirit that maketh the witch appear in the glass.  Dan. 
That same Spirit, what do you take him to be, an Angel, or a Devil?  Sam. 
Some of the cunning men say, they have Moses or Elias, or the Spirit of some holy man.  Dan. 
The Devil can turn himself into the likeness of an Angel of light. For they that do think the cunning men and women deal with any other Spirit than Satan, have no understanding. Satan saith, the man was witched to death.  Sam. 
Satan saith so, he is not to be beleéued, but the witchconfesseth it was so.  Dan. 
Who told the witch?  Sam. 
Her Cat that she sent.  Dan. 
What is the Cat, a devil? then remember the proverb, ask his fellow if he be a theéfe. All the matter resteth upon the testimony of devils, and they not put to their oath. We will not ground upon man's testimony without an oath, and must we believe the bare word of devils?  Sam. 
Do you think then that the man was not killed by witchery?  Dan. 
It may be the Lord had given Satan power to plague the man in his body, and then he under a colour would be sent by a witch. But it is most like that his body did languish and pine of natural causes, which the devil did know, and so would be sent, and seem to do all, when as indeed he had no power to touch him. For, although the Lord give the devil power, to strike some in their bodies for their heinous sins, yet the most which the witches think their spirits do kill at their request, do die of natural diseases.  Sam. 
Then it seemeth the witches are deceived, and mocked, when he maketh them believe he doth kill and plague when he doth not. And again in this, where he hath power given him of God, to strike man or beast, he could do it, and would without the witch, and so useth the witch for a colour to draw on worse matters.  Dan. 
I am glad you take my meaning so right: for, think deéply of the matters, and you shall see it must needs be so.  Sam. 
I interrupted M. B. I pray you go forward now to the rest.  Dan. 
Our matter which we come unto now, is the help and remedy that is sought for against witches at the hands of cunning men. And now if it please you to propound your questions, I will answer to them the best I can.  M. B. 
Nay truly, I see already all is nought, but yet I will object those things which have carried me awry. I take it a man is to seék remedy against evils, & I thought it was even a gift that God gave unto those whom we call cunning men, that they did very much good by. When a thing is lost, when a thing is stolen, many go to them, and they help them to it. I did know where the Communion cup was stolen: the Churchwardens road to a wise man, he gave them direction what night, and where they should stand, and the party that had stolen it should come thither, and confess he had it: and certainly they had it again. I did know one that had a child of five years old, a girl, it was taken piteously: the father was in great heaviness, and knew not what to do: some gave him counsel to go to a woman which dwelled ten miles from him, and to carry some of the clothes which the child lay in: he did so, the woman told him that his child was bewitched, and if he did not seek remedy in time, the child would be lost: She bade him take some old clothes, and let the child lie in them all night, and then take and burn them: and he should see by the burning, for if they did burn black, that showed the child was bewitched, and she said further that doubtless the witch would come thither: he followed her advice, and sure as we be here, there came an old woman in, which he suspected, even while they were burning, and made an errand: the man made no more ado, but even laid his clouches upon her and clawed her until the blood ran down her cheeks, and the child was well within two days after. I could tell you of a stranger thing, but I have it but by report, but yet indeed by very credible report. There was a butcher by his trade that had a boy to his son, his name was john, grievous sores did break forth upon him: they laid salves, and none would cleave for to draw or to ease them. The father making his moan to a friend of his, he told him whether he should go to a very skilful man. he did go, and being demanded whom he suspected, she was showed him in a glass, an old woman that dwelled not far from him in an house alone: he told the cunning man, that the woman had shut up her door, & was gone from home out of the shire, and so he could not tell how to come by her. he told him a way how he should fetch her home. Cut off the hair (said he) of the boy's head, and put it in a cloth and burn it, and I warrant you she will come home with all the speéd she can. Burn it abroad, burn it not in a chimney, for if you do, it will make you all afraid. The man went home and did this. The woman came home with all speed, came to his house, came to the boy, and said, john, scratch me, he scratched her until the blood followed, and whereas before nothing would draw his sores, they healed of themselves. What should a man think of such things?  Dan. 
You tell of some, which have received help from the hands of cunning men: And no doubt there may infinite examples be brought. Some have lost, some have things stolen from them, some are vexed in their bodies: They come by the things again which were lost or stolen, they are taught to do certain things, and are eased from their griefs. But this we must first know, they receive their help, if it deserve the name to be called help, from the devil. And do you think a man may lawfully seek help at the hands of the devil?  M. B. 
Some are persuaded that they do not seek help at the hand of devils, when they go to the wise men: but that it is a gift which God hath given them, even to do good withal.  Dan. 
I do verily think that many of the people are so persuaded: but what reason is there for it? Doth God by his Spirit tell where the thing is which is lost, or stolen? Is it an Angel from heaven, or the soul of some man that is dead, which appeareth in the Crystal, or in the glass, and showeth the image of the party which hath stolen, or that is a witch?  M. B. 
I had rather hear what you think touching these things, than show what I have thought.  Dan. 
The devils did make the heathen people believe that they were gods, and so procured that they should worship them with divine worship. Through their craftiness they had many ways to establish this: they conveyed themselves into images, and out of them gave answers, when they were demanded, herein they used great craft. for whereas they could not tell what should fall out, they framed the oracle in such sort as it was doubtful, and might be taken both ways: and so look which part it fell out on, that seemed and was taken to be the meaning of the gods. If they did know how things would fall out indeed, as they did know sundry things touching the kingdoms and monarchies of the world, by the writings of the Prophets, and divers things by conjectures, as the devil could tell Saul he should be slain, because he saw God had cast him off, and the hearts of the Israelits fainted, and the Philistims were full of courage, those they would tell plainly. Also they did convey themselves into the bodies of men and women, and utter things which seemed very divine, such (as I am persuaded) were the Prophetesses the Sibylles among the heathen. Such was the maid at Philippos, which is mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles, which brought great gain unto her masters by divining, out of whom Paul cast the devil. This maid could tell of things lost, of things stolen, and such like, and great resort there was unto her, as men had need, or desired to see the strangeness of the matter.  M. B. 
Let me interrupt you a little. The devil can not be in all places at once: how could he then, remaining in the maid, tell what was done in places far off? how can the devil tell where the thing lost or stolen is, which is not only far off, but hidden? how can he show the image of the thief or witch? Can he sit and behold all things a far off, and in secret?  Dan. 
We may not ascribe unto Devils that they can be in all places at once, or sit in one place and behold all things done a far off. But they join together in this special work, to set up their kingdom, and to draw the people after them, to seek help at their hands, and so to worship them. Some of them be in one place, and some in another, and from all places do stir up the faithless people to run for help to those cunning men, and then they make the relation, for they go thither also, they know the thief whom they moved to the theft, and can make resemblance of his face and apparel: they can tell where things be that are hid, having had a finger in the matter. And thus one spirit▪ as it doth seem▪ telleth things spoken and done far off, but it is otherwise, there be many that do it, which resort from all the places where the things are done.  M. B. 
I am satisfied touching this point. You were showing how the devils did deal among the heathen out of the Idols, and out of men and women.  Dan. 
Yea, and they have subtly wound themselves in again among Christians. For using witches as their instruments, they make them believe that they do many harms sent by them, which they do not, and whereas they have power given them by God to afflict, they will seem to do it at the wrath and displeasure of the witch, she must send him, the matter must one way or other appear, either he will seem even compelled by force of such as do adjure him, to confess that such a woman or such a man sent him, or else the witch must confess so much. Then the people devise how they may be safe against the witch, there is running to the wizards to learn what they should do, to withstand the fury of the witch, that she send not to them, or if she have sent, how they may expel her spirit, and keép her from sending him again: this is it which the devil would have: for now he uttereth all his wares: he teacheth by these cunning men and women, many horrible abominations, and foul abuses of the name of God, by which they are made believe, that they have remedy against the devils sent by the witches, and that they are cured from their harms.  M. B. 
I do not see how any man can indeed justify, or maintain, that the spirits which appear unto them in the Crystal, or in the glass, or water, or that any way do speak, and show matters unto them, be holy Angels, or the souls of excellent men, as of Moses, Samuel David, and others, though I have heard that the cunning men, take them to be such, and think they deal by them against devils.  Dan. 
It is no matter what Satan's vassals are made to believe by his subtle sleights: it is most abominable for any Christian man, ever to let it enter into his thought, that they do any thing by the power or wisdom of the holy Ghost, by any Angel or good spirit, or that they do any thing against the devil, which work by the intelligence which they have from evil spirits: therefore hold this, that they seek unto devils, which run unto those soothsayers.  M. B. 
I am persuaded indeed that they seek unto devils, but I would see some reason for it out of God's word.  Dan. 
Touching all spiritual matters, as to be armed with power against devils, and to know how to avoid the dangers which they bring, we are no where to seek, and to learn but of our most blessed Lord God. And of him we cannot learn, but by his holy word, for in it he hath opened unto us all his whole will. And therefore, where the Lord commandeth the people of Israel by Moses, Deut. 18. that they should not when they came into the land, learn to do according to the abominations of those heathen, reckoning up sundry kinds of such as were Satan's instruments, which he used to seduce the multitude, by divinations, by observing of times, by augury, by jugglings with the help of the devil, by using familiar Spirits, spirits of divination, and seeking to the dead: he setteth down also the remedy, showing first, that he would cast out those nations because they hearkened unto the soothsayers, and deviners, pronouncing that every one which doth those things, is an abomination to the Lord, willing his people that they should not hearken to such, but that they should hearken unto him: And then Moses saith, A Prophet shall the Lord thy God raise up unto thee from among you of thy brethren like unto me, him shall ye hear.  M. B. 
Then you prove by that place, that we must seek only to God, and not to such as work by means besides his words.  Dan. 
If you read that place, Deut. 18. and mark every thing well, you shall see it doth not only prove that they seek unto devils, which run to these cunning men and women▪ because the Prophets which God hath raised up to declare the Lords will, command us not to do such things: but also declareth that they be an abomination to the Lord that use them, or that seek unto them.  M. B. 
I see than it is not only a sin, but a most horrible sin, to seek unto them. Alas, many do not think that they seek unto devils, when they go for help unto them for things stolen, or for help and remedy against witches.  Dan. 
No doubt many refuse to hear the voice of God, to be instructed by him: they despise his word, and therefore they be given up to hearken unto devils. Such as have sought unto any of these that work by the devil, and now come to see their offence, aught to show repentance for the same, not as for a light sin. It is no small abomination to go for help unto the devil: It is to set him in God's place, and to honour him as God. It riseth of infidelity and distrust of help from God, as we may see in the example of king Saul, who finding no answer nor comfort from God, whom he had so wickedly disobeyed, went to a witch. The heathen man said, Flectere si nequeo Superos, Acherontamovebo. If I cannot entreat the gods, I will down among the devils.  M. B. 
Nay, doubtless there can be no defence made for such seeking help at their hands, which deal with familiar spirits, but I muse at divers things, as this for one, how the cunning men, if they deal by the power of the devil, should use such good words, and will them that come unto them to do all in the name of Christ, teaching them to use words and sentences of the scriptures.  Dan. 
O sir, here lieth the deép subtlety of Satan, how should the people be seduced to follow him, if he should not use great cunning to cover matters, as if devils were driven out, and harms cured that are done by them, even through the name and mighty power of God. Herein also lieth a more foul abomination, and that is the abusing and horrible profaning of the most blessed name of God, and the holy Scriptures unto witcheries, charms, and conjurations, and unto all devilish arts. Such an one is haunted with a fairy, or a spirit: he must learn a charm compounded of some strange speeches, and the names of God intermingled, or wear some part of S. john's Gospel or such like. So against the thief, against the devil sent by the witch, the like is practised. What can Satan desire more, than that holy things should be thus abused▪ There is ado to get him into the glass, to get him into the Crystal, to get him into the basin of water: there is a do to bind him, as it were by the name & power of Christ to tell this thing or that thing. The conjuror he bindeth him with the names of God, and by the virtue of Christ's passion and resurrection, & so maketh him serve his turn: And all is his own work; for he is not constrained, nor bound, but seeketh thus to have God blasphemed. O (saith the simple man) this is a good woman, she speaketh of God, and of Christ, and doth all in his name: they be good words which she hath taught me to use: and what hurt can there be in using good words? Alas poor man, what case are they in which must learn good words of the devil? It is not the speaking of good words, or the wearing some part of the scriptures, that defendeth from devils, therein lieth the craft of satan, to have those holy things so foully abused, 〈◊〉 that men may put trust in words and sentences pronounced▪ but the devils are withstood only by the power of faith, where the holy scriptures are written in the heart, & the soul armed with the power of them. From this Satan draweth men by his soothsayers, teaching them other helps: For the naming of God, or the sentences of scripture binde●● not satan 〈…〉 we read he can utter them.  M. B. 
Then how can the devil bear such a pitiful mind, as to help those that be in misery? For many have help by these cunning men. The devil is cruel and bend wholly to do hurt, and that is it which persuadeth many that things are done even by the power of God.  Dan. 
The devils be as pitiful as a greedy hungry lion that roareth after his prey, and as a fierce Dragon, all burning with wrath and bloody malice: they make show of doing good unto men, only of a most cruel and murderous purpose, even to draw men deéper into the pit of hell with them. For if they can help the body a little, it is to win both body and soul unto eternal damnation. Where satan offereth his help, it is more to be feared, than where he manifestly impugneth, and seeketh apparently to hurt.  M. B. 
But this than is more strange, if they do not deal by the power of God, but by the power of the devil, when they drive out devils from hurting, how one devil should drive out another. Our saviour saith, that satan doth not drive out satan, for then his kingdom should be divided and could not stand.  Dan. 
It is most certain that satan doth not drive out satan: for our saviour hath showed the reason of the contrary. One devil is ready to further the work of another: but in no wise to expel or to hinder one another.  M. B. 
There is it which maketh me to muse: we see the devil driven out, and doth not return again, and if it be not wrought by the power of devils, as you say it cannot, then must it neéds be by the power of God,  Dan. 
The Devil is driven out, neither by the power of the devil, nor yet by the power of God, in these that are healed by cunning men.  M. B. 
I like this worst of all the speech which I heard you utter yet: For if satan be not driven out neither by the power of satan, not by the power of God, what other power is there to drive him out? If you can show a third power to expel him, it is more than ever I heard of.  Dan. 
There needeth not a third power to expel him, for he is not driven out at all.  M. B. 
I told you before, if you deny that to be, which all experience doth show, then is it no reasoning. There be examples in many places, and daily it is seen, that the devil is driven out of some possessed, that where he did vex and torment men in their bodies, and in their cattle, they have remedy against him.  Dan. 
I do not deny but that some which are possessed and tormented by Satan, have release: but yet the devil is not cast forth by those means, but ceaseth willingly even to establish men in error, and in most wicked profaning of the name of God, and worshipping of himself, and so entereth deéper into them.  M. B. 
I beseech you let me hear how that is, that you say he ceaseth of his own accord. Will he let go his hold willingly and of his own accord, where he hath it upon any man? Doth he not desire to do hurt?  Dan. 
He doth not let go his hold which he hath upon any man, but indeed taketh faster hold when he seemeth to be cast forth and doth greater hurt: for tell me whose devise is the conjuration?  M. B. 
I am out of doubt that conjuration is the device of the devil.  Dan. 
Then tell me, hath the devil devised and taught a way to bind himself, or to cast forth himself?  M. B. 
That I suppose he would never do.  Dan. 
Indeed if we will imagine that the devil is become an old fool; we may think he would teach that which should bind and cast forth himself: but the scripture calleth him the old serpent: he devised and taught conjuration, therefore conjuration doth not cast him forth. Yet he seemeth to be bound by the conjuror, yea even by the name of God, and by the power of the passion of Christ. The conjuror seemeth by the same power to drive him out of a man possessed, whose body he doth vex & torment. And he ceaseth willingly to torment the body, to establish conjuration, & so to draw men quite from God, even to worship and to follow himself, and seek all helps at his hands. Even so when men are tormented in their bodies, or plagued in their cattle by the devil, and seek unto the cunning men and women, following the way that they prescribe unto them, and have ease in their bodies, and no more harm among their cattle, Satan doth not give place as forced, but ceaseth to do those bodily harms, that he may fully win unto himself both body and soul. If they should not seem to be expelled, how should men be drawn to seék help at their hands which deal by him? how should witches and conjurers be drawn on most horribly to pollute and blaspheme the glorious name of God?  M. B. 
Then I see they buy their help deér which have it at the hands of these cunning men.  Dan. 
Yea, what can be bought more dear, than that which is with the loss of soul and body for ever, by running from God after devils?  M. B. 
What should a man think then touching all other which deal not with the devil and yet have certain ways to find out witches, and to unwitch that which they have done?  Dan. 
Although they deal not directly by the devil, I mean they have no familiar spirits that speak unto them yet they deal by devilish devices, which are also an abomination to the Lord. For all those several sorts of witches which the Lord rehearseth, Deut. 18. did not deal directly with devils. For some were observers of times, which had their lucky days and their unlucky days, and so their hours. If they go to buy or to sell, they choose their hour to set forth in. Some dealt by the entrails of ●easts, and by the flying of birds, by meeting with an hare, or a fox, and on which hand, & a thousand such like. Some deal with the Sieve and a pair of shears▪ using certain words: Some use a charm for the tooth ache another for the ague, and for stopping the bleéding at the nose, also their spell for the theéfe, and a thousand such like, when butter will not come, when chief will not run, nor Ale work in the fat: These would seem of all others to have witches in the greatest detestation, and in the mean time work by the devil themselves, and may be termed witches.  M. B. 
We do count them witches which have their spirits, we do not take them to be witches, which do but use those things which the cunning men have taught. For they do not mean to do any thing by the devil. Me thinketh therefore it is hard to call them witches.  Dan. 
Take the name of witchcraft for all that dealeth by the power and devices of the devil: No doubt some are more horrible than other of the several sorts of witches, yet the lightest of them be abominations before the Lord, as we are taught, Deut. 18. and the ignorance doth not excuse. For what though the witch suppose it is the soul of Moses, which appeareth in his Crystal, is he not therefore a witch? Your neighbour, whose butter would not come, which heat a spit red hot and thrust into the cream, using certain words, doth think she did by the power of God fray away the devil, is she not therefore a witch, dealing with that which the devil, and not God hath taught? Is she not a witch also in seeking help at devils? They which did burn the clothes which their child lay in, to know by the burning black whether it were bewitched, and to bring the witch thither, dealt altogether by the power and direction of the devil, & so in scratching, for God hath taught no such things, then are they not witches? By whose instruction, and by whose power was the witch fetched home at the burning of the hair of the butcher's son you spoke of? Was not all done by the power of Satan, and by his instruction? Are not they then which practise the things the Disciples of witches, & so indeed very witches? Those which have their charms, and their night spells, what can they be but witches? I might reckon up her that dealeth with the siue and the shears, and a number of such trumperies, in all which the most holy name of God is polluted, and if any thing be done, it is done wholly by the effectual working of Satan. God hath given natural helps, and those we may use, as from his hand against natural diseases, but things besides nature he hath not appointed, especially, they be ridiculous to drive away devils and diseases.  M. B. 
Now you speak of natural things, we see there be great secrets in nature: the Adamant draweth Iron unto it. And why may there not be some force in these natural things then?  Dan. 
No doubt there be great secrets in nature, which the skilful Physicians, and natural Philosophers do find out. As the hanging of some thing about the neck, may have force to drive away an ague, the wearing of some thing may have such virtue to deliver from the cramp, and such like. And from these Satan doth take occasion to bring in his trumperies, and curious devices. As because there be secrets in nature, a ring is curiously framed according to the signs in the firmament, this is tied to a thread, and let down into a basin or cup of water, and will show great things. Because there be secrets in nature, a horseshoe must be heat red hot, and then put into a kettle seéthing upon the fire to drive away the witch's spirit. Also he that hath his cattle bewitched, burneth some live thing, as hog or hen, to drive out the devil. Can these natural things expel devils? Nay, they play the rank witches, which burn any thing for to expel devils: for, hath God taught to do any such thing? Do they burn the thing to God, or is it as a very burnt sacrifice to the Devil? In the time of the law burned sacrifices were offered to God: the devil among the heathen drew the like to himself. And now by his sleight he doth after some sort procure the same at their hands, which profess to be Christians, and thus worshipp●●● him, he ceaseth from hurting their bodies, or their cattle, as gaining a greater matter.  M. B. 
If it be so (as I am not able to gainsay it) then be there multitudes in all places which are guilty of sorcery and witchcraft. For I see many deal in matters by the help and power of the devil, which are persuaded otherwise. But I marvel much at divers things touching the help which men have by devils. Let us confer a little about them. The devil doth know things past, & things present, but God only doth know what shall be done in the time to come. If these cunning men do deal with no further power, than the power of the devil, how can they tell so right what shall come to pass?  Dan. 
It is peculiar to God alone, to know what shall come to pass hereafter. But the Lord God hath revealed by his Prophets, and Apostles many things that after should be fulfilled. Satan can give a near conjecture when these come to be fulfilled. He is a most subtle observer of things, and will guess at many: but especially, where he hath power given him to work and to bring any matter about, he can and will tell it aforehand. Finally, God in his just judgement giveth him power to seduce the wicked.  M. B. 
I pray you open your meaning more fully.  Dan. 
Very well: In which have you any doubt?  M. B. 
I take it the Devil guesseth at things which are prophesied, and is a sharp observer of causes. But you said he telleth what shall be, where he worketh that which he foretelleth: give some example for this.  Dan. 
There needeth no better example, than that which you told of the Churchwardens that went to the cunning man, to know the thief which had stolen their communion cup. It may be said, where the cunning man bade them go to such a place, such a night, and at such an hour, and thither shall come he that stole the cup, how could the devil tell, if it were a night or two after, that he should come to that place, and at that hour? You must note what power the devil hath in the mind of a thief. He stirred him up to steal the cup. He stirred up the Churchwardens to seek to the cunning witch. He nameth the place and the time, whether, and when he would move the heart of the theéfe to come: And at the time appointed he bringeth him thither, for he that could move him to steal, could also by secret suggestion move him to go thither. The devil told that the witch should come home with speéd that had bewitched the butcher's son. He that had power in her heart to make her become a witch, did know he should have power to make her with haste to come home. One carrieth somewhat which a sick person hath lain in to the cunning man. He can tell, it seemeth, by the smell of the cloth, whether the devil hath been in it (if it smell like his devil) and so telleth, the party is bewitched. Take the clothes which the sick party hath lain in, and burn them, if they burn black, then may you see it is so, and the witch shall come in while they be a burning. Now, if the Lord gave him power, and he hath stricken and tormented the body of the sick person▪ and if he have collourably stirred up a witch to send him: Is it not an easy matter for him to make the fire burn black, and to move the witch to come at that present? Or if he have power for to torment, and hath no witch to send him, his great desire being to have men guilty of innocent blood, is it not as easy by the permission of God which in his just judgement giveth him power to seduce such people as will hearken unto devils. for him to make the fire burn black, or at least to seem so to them, and to move some froward suspected woman or other to come in, though she be no witch? A thousand such things he worketh in, and as a cunning juggler can compass and bring them about.  M. B. 
Indeed an innocent person may come in at such a time: but I have heard, I cannot tell how true it is, that therefore there is a further thing which they observe. And that is this, the cunning man biddeth, set on a posnet or some pan with nails, and seéth them, and the witch shall some in while they be in seéthing, and within a few days after, her face will be all bescratched with the nails. And I have heard that some old woman coming in, her face hath indeed been as it were scratched within a few days after, for the shingles or such like brake forth.  Dan. 
O the depth of Satan's illusions to make blind people become witches, and to deal by him. He doth know the corrupted humours in the body, which will break out into the small pocks, or such like, and if he can procure one to come in which is even ready to have them, what a show doth he make, as if the vails did it?  M. B. 
This were great subtlety of Satan.  Dan. 
Nay, we are not able to imagine the depth of his sleights, neither can we see the secret force, wherewith he moveth the minds of ignorant people, and so bringeth about his enterprises. There doth lie the greatest cunning of Satan.  M. B. 
Indeed it seemeth strange and uncredible that the devil should so move the minds of men, and lead them unto this thing and that thing, and in the mean time they do not know it, but think they go against the devil. But now I have a further doubt. I confess it is an easy thing for the devil to tell where a thing is that is lost or stolen, but what power hath he to heal that which is sick or sore? Out of question they be innumerable which receive help by going to the cunning men. You say he helpeth the body that he may destroy the soul. He helpeth that men may seek unto him, and so set him, as it were, in the place of God. Methinketh it should not be in the power of devils for to help.  Dan. 
Indeed that is well moved, there lieth a great sleight of the devil in it. You say that innumerable do receive help by going unto cunning men. I warrant you not so many as you are persuaded.  M. B. 
O very many. There be a number which do never make it known, because it is misliked by some.  Dan. 
Yea, and there be many which come home again with a flea in their ear, they receive an answer, as good as a flim flam.  M. B. 
It may be they come too late, the matter is over far spent, and if they had come sooner, they could have helped them.  Dan. 
Yea, a number of such cozening answers the devil maketh which satisfy ignorant people, which are reato believe all that he telleth, and to dance after his pipe. One cometh to him for his child, if he know the disease be deadly, he will say it is bewitched, but so far spent, that there is no help, the child will hardly live two days▪ the father cometh home and findeth his child dead, or it dieth within two or three days after, here the devil getteth credit. Another is sick and grievously tormented, he sendeth: Satan doth see (for he sendeth them) that the disease is even spent, and that the cause of it begin to fail, and so that the party in a few days will recover, here he prescribeth one paltry or other, they use it, the man is recovered, and so should have been without the devils medicine, but now Satan hath gotten further credit. Another is sick and languisheth, his neighbours tell him, he may be bewitched, it is good to send, and then he shall know. He sendeth, the devil doth not know whether the sick man can escape and recover, or not. He saith, it is like he is bewitched: and teacheth what to do, if there be any help at all, but doubteth, and so whether the man live or die, Satan saveth his credit whole and sound. And many of these answers he giveth. Again, we must note that man's imagination is of great force, either to continue a disease, or to diminish and take away some diseases. And in this also Satan deludeth some, for his medicine seemeth to do somewhat, when it is but the party's conceit.  M. B. 
These be sleights indeed: but me thinketh you go far in the last. I do not see how a man's conceit can help him.  Dan. 
Imagination is a strong thing to hurt, all men do find, and why should it not then be strong also to help, when the party's mind is cheered, by beleéuing fully that he receiveth ease?  M. B. 
But yet it is hard to show that ever any such cure hath been wrought.  Dan. 
It is not hard to show, for that which men do, it is presumed the devil can do the like. And I have heard of a merry companion that wrought such a cure. There was one in London (as report goeth) which was acquainted with Feats, Now, this Feats had a black dog, whom he called Bomelius. This party afterward had a conceit that Bomelius was a devil, and that he felt him within him. He was in heaviness, and made his moan to one of his acquaintance, who had a merry head, he told him, he had a friend could remove Bomelius. He had him prepare a breakfast, and he would bring him. Then this was the cure, he made him be stripped naked and stand by a good fire, and though he were fat enough of himself, basted him all over with butter against the fire, and made him wear a sleéke stone next his skin under his belly, and the man had present remedy, and gave him afterward great thanks.  M. B. 
I know men have many foolish imaginations: but though one imagination may drive out another, which is not the curing of any disease indeed, but of an imagination: yet it doth not follow, that where there is an apparent grief, that a man's conceit can help to cure it.  Dan. 
Yes, the conceit doth much, even where there is an apparent disease. A man feareth he is bewitched, it troubleth all the powers of his mind, and that distempereth his body, maketh great alterations in it, and bringeth sundry griefs. Now, when his mind is freéd from such imaginations, his bodily grief which grew from the same is eased. And a multitude of Satan's cures are but such.  M. B. 
Nay, there be also evils which be apparent in the body, and be cured, which come not of any fear or imagination: how can these be cured by any conceit? There is great reason that such griefs may be cured indeed by quieting the mind, as did grow from the disturbance of the same.  Dan. 
Yea, and that falleth out sometimes in griefs of the body, which doth not grow from imagination, but from some other passions. As I can give you an example, which is written and reported by a very reverend learned Physician. The cure was done by a lewd cozening knave in Germany. A woman had blear eyes that were watery. The knave lodging there, promised for certainty that he would heal them: he did hang a little writing about her neck, charging strictly, that it should not be taken from thence nor read, nor opened, for if any of these were done, she could have no help at all by it. The woman had such a confidence in thethinge, and was so merry and glad, that she left weéping (for her often weéping and tears had spoiled her eyes) and so by little and little, the moisture stayed, and her eyes were whole. It fell out that she lost the writing, whereat she was in such grief and sorrow, and weeping, that her eyes were sore again. Another found the writing, opened it, and read it. It was written in the German tongue, to this effect translated into English: The devil pluck out thine eyes, and fill their holes with his dung. Was not this, think you, a proper salve for to cure her eyes? If this medicine had taken effect, her eyes should not have been healed, but plucked quite out. We may not think but that Satan hath more cozening tricks than all men in the world, for men are but his scholars. Again, where men fail, he can work somewhat in the affections of the parties minds. And you shall hear them say, when any charm is used, you must believe it will help, or else it will do you no good at all. Thus if it were well seen into, the greatest part of your innumerable cures, come to be mere cosonages.  M. B. 
Well, let all this be true as you have said: Yet there be many things wherein the devils do help. What say you to the boy which healed within few days as he had scratched the witch, whereas his sores were most grievous before, and could not be cured? What say you to that which they do, when butter will not come, or when drink will not work in the fat? What say you to the burning of some live thing, as hog or hen, and the harm ceasing? And finally, what say you to the helping of them where the devil 〈…〉 doth torment their bodies▪  Dan. 
All these are answered in few words, that where he hath power to hurt either man or beast, drink or butter he helpeth only by giving place, and ceasing to hurt, which as I showed you before, he doth most willingly, to bring to pass, that men may seék to him, & become even very witches. If a man be vexed & tormented by a devil, & men seek by fasting & prayer to cast him forth, even instantly entreating the Lord▪ them he goeth out with much a do, and unwillingly, as overcome & expelled by the power of God. But when he hurteth, as you say he did the butcher's son, and they seek to him, and will follow his presciptions, as to draw blood of the witch, he goeth out willingly, I mean he ceaseth from hurting the body: for he goeth not out indeed, but rather goeth further in, and seateth himself deéper in the soul. And so is it in all the rest. How gladly will he cease to hurt the hens, so that to please him, a hen may be burnt alive? his helping is no more but a ceasing from doing harm, if he had power given him to hurt.  Sam. 
This is a strange thing if it be so. There be thousands in the land deceived. The woman at R. H. by report hath some week forty come unto her, and many of them not of the meaner sort. But I do but hinder, I pray you go forward.  Dan. 
The devil can deceive thousand thousands, and even the wisest for this world, when they will not be taught of God, but despise his doctrine, then are they justly given over to be disciples of the devil.  M. B. 
If there be such deceit in all these things, and that the witches do not kill nor hurt, but the devil craftily seemeth to kill and to hurt when the diseases be natural and maketh the witch believe that he hath done all at her request, Or where God hath given him power, he stirreth her up to send him, as if either he could not, or would not meddle, unless he had been sent, Seeing all lieth upon Satan, it should seem, there is no reason that witches should be put to death: but the scripture doth command they should be put to death.  Dan. 
The holy scriptures do command that witches should be put to death: therein you say right: but if you did take it, that the word of God commandeth they shall not be suffered to live, because they kill men and beasts, or because they send their spirits which possess men, and torment their bodies, you are much deceived: For you shall never find, of all that have been tormented and plagued by evil spirits, that the holy Ghost layeth it upon witches. The causes why they should be put to death are, that they have familiarity with devils, which are the blasphemous enemies of God: and that they seduce the people into error, to run after devils, and devilish practices, and that they have such wicked minds. Although they never mind to kill or to hurt any, but to do them good, as they imagine, yet if they deal with devils they ought to die for it.  M. B. 
Then you take it, that these cunning men and women, unto whom so many run for help, which are thought to do very much good, and no hurt at all, aught to be rooted out, and destroyed. Let us know what scripture there is for it.  Dan. 
Yea, of all other they ought to die, because they do the greatest harm. Other witches that have spirits are thought to do harm, because the devil at the appointment of God doth harm, 〈◊〉 he beareth in hand he doth it at the request of the witch: but these that seem to do good, do harm indeed, and that many ways, as every one that light in him, may easily see. And for the scripture●s which show that they ought to die, read first in the 22. chapter of Exodus. ver 18▪ and there it is said, Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.  M. B. 
That place we take to be meant of these witches which send their spirits to do harm: the other be not called witches.  Dan. 
It is that witch, that is there commanded to be put to death, that is called Mecasshephah: such were they and so called, which before Pharaoh did withstand Moses, and made in show rods turned into serpents. So that in one kind the Lord doth include all such as work by the devil. For there be divers others sorts named in Deut. 18. and they be all called an abomination to the Lord: and no abomination is to be suffered to remain among the Lord's people. Also in the same place, when he saith, Let there not be found in thee any such or such, as he there reckoneth them up: It is not alone to will that none should practise such things, but also that they should be rooted out.  M. B. 
I must needs agree unto that which the word of God doth set down. But this is the hardest matter of all, how they shall be convicted.  Dan. 
Why do you take it to be the hardest matter, how a witch shall be convicted? how is a theéf or a murderer convicted but by proof? If there be vehement suspicion, and the party upon examination confess the fact, that is a sufficient proof. If the party do deny, and two or three of credit do testify upon their knowledge with a solemn oath, that he is guilty of the fact, that is also a sufficient proof. And touching this, God commanded by Moses, that none should die, unless the matter were proved against them by two witnesses at the least. Deutronom. 19 ver. 15.  M. B. 
I grant, if the party do deny, and especially, if the matter touch life, that there aught by the word of God to be due proof by two witnesses at the least. This may be for murderers, this may be for thieves: but for witches I see not how. They deal so secretly with their spirits, that very seldom they can be convinced by flat testimonies of men, as to say directly they have heard or seéns them send their spirits. And again, it is a rare thing to have a witch confess. For it is generally thought the devil hath such power over them, that he will not suffer them to confess.  Dan. 
O than I perceive why you account it the hardest matter of all to convict a witch, it both testimony and confession do fail: but what would you have further?  M. B. 
I have been of this opinion, that if there were any likelihood, and suspicion, and common fame, that it was even proof enough, and the best deed that could he done for to hang them up, and so to rid the country of them.  Dan. 
Then you thought that their spirits were hanged with them, and so the country being rid of the witches and their spirits, men's bodies and their cattle should be safe.  M. B. 
I had a little more wit than to think so: but in truth it was but a little more. For I thought if all the witches were hanged, that then their spirits should not have any to hire them nor to send them to hurt either man or beast, but I see mine own folly, and that only God giveth the power unto the devils to afflict and try the godly, and to vex, torment, and plague the wicked, and that they shall do this, though all the witches in the world were hanged. I know they need none to cherish them, or to set them a work.  Dan. 
But did you not fear if all suspected should be hanged, than some guiltless persons might be put to death? As you see many that have been executed as witches have taken it upon their death that they were innocent.  M. B. 
I will tell you my thought touching that point, which was this. The witches raise tempests, and hurt corn and fruits upon the treés, the witches bring the pestilence among men, and murrain among cattle: the witches send their spirits and make men lame, kill their children and their cattle: their spirits cannot be taken heed of, nor kept out with doors and walls as thieves and murderers, but come in when they be sent, and do so many harms: for this cause I thought it a marvelous good work to put all suspected to death, though some of them were innocent, that so sure work might be made to have not one left.  Dan. 
Did you not think it a fearful thing to shed innocent blood.  M. B. 
Yea, but I thought it much better that some should be put to death wrongfully, than to leave any one witch, which might kill and destroy many.  Dan. 
Then I perceive that this was the reason which did persuade you, that it was very good to put all to death that were suspected (although it might fall out that some of them were innocent) to avoid greater inconvenience, and that is, if some few witches should escape, which might plague and kill many. Better a few should be put wrongfully to death, than many should be tormented and killed, or lamed by the devils. But are you still of that mind?  M. B. 
No verily. For you have put me in mind that the wicked spirits receive their power to plague both men and beasts, only from God. They seek about, they watch when and where he will give them leave to touch, where God will try the faith and patience of the just by him, as he did in job, he sendeth him, if he will be sent by a witch, it is but under a colour, she giveth him not the power, he would touch though she were not. Where God will strike and plague the wicked by him, he giveth him leave, it is not the anger of the witch that bringeth it, but their own wickedness, whereby they have provoked God to displeasure, and so give this enemy power over them.  Dan. 
Then so long as these two things stand, that God by Satan will afflict in some sort and try his children (as you allege he did job) and that he will use him as his executioner, to plague and torment the wicked, as he sent an evil spirit to vex king Saul: so long the harms done by wicked spirits shall not cease, although all the witches and conjurers in the world were hanged up. Look then to the causes, if we will remove the effects. As if thou fear God, and Satan afflict thee, stand fast in faith and patience, and wait upon God for thy deliverance. If thou endure temptation, thou art blessed, and shalt be crowned. jam. 1. ver. 12. If thy sins have provoked God, and the enemy doth touch thy body or thy goods, fall down and humble thyself with fasting and prayer, entreat the Lord to turn away his displeasure: look not upon the witch, lay not the cause where it is not, seek not help at the hands of devils, be not a disciple of witches, to commit things abominable, by polluting the name of God, and honouring Satan, nor thirst not after the blood which is innocent, as it falleth out in many.  M. B. 
I do assent unto all this: and surely it is a great fault to shed innocent blood.  Dan. 
We may learn in the holy scriptures, that the shedding of innocent blood is a very horrible thing in the eyes of almighty God: and a very grievous thing it is to have a land polluted with innocent blood: and that is one special cause why Satan dealeth by witches: for he laboureth to wrap in many guiltless persons upon suspicions, he suggesteth by his helping witches, that there be many hurting witches in all towns, and villages, that so he may set the multitude in a rage, 〈…〉 to suspect upon every likelihood that he can devise or make show of▪ And thus whole juries must become guilty of innocent hlood, by condemning as guilty, and that upon their solemn oath, such as be suspected upon vain surmises and imaginations, and illusions, rising from blindness and infidelity, and fear of Satan which is in the ignorant sort.  M. B. 
If you take it, that this is one craft of Satan, to bring many to be guilty of innocent blood, and even upon their oaths, which is horrible, what would you have the judges and juries to do, when any are arraigned of suspicion to be witches?  Dan. 
What would I have them do? I would wish them to be most wary and circumspect that they be not guilty of innocent blood. And that is, to condemn none but upon sure ground, and infallible proof, because presumptions shall not warrant or excuse them before God if guiltless blood be shed.  M. B. 
It falleth out sometimes when a thief is arraigned, or a murderer, that direct evidence faileth, and yet such circumstances are brought, as do even enforce the jury in their conscience to find them guilty: It seemeth that this holdeth chief about witches, because their dealing is close and secret, and it is also thought that the devil hath so great power over them, that he will not suffer them to confess.  Dan. 
You bring two reasons to prove that in convicting witches, likelihoods and presumptions ought to be of force more than about thieves or murderers: The first, because their dealing is secret: the other because the devil will not let them confess. Indeed men imagining that witches do work strange mischiefs, burn in desire to have them hanged, as hoping the● to be free, and then upon such persuasions as you mention, they suppose it is a very good work to put to death all which are suspected. But touching thieves and murderers let men take heed how they deal upon presumptions, unless they be very strong for we see that juries sometimes do condemn such as be guiltless, which is an hard thing, especially being upon their oath. And in witches above all other, the proofs had neéd to be strong because there is greater sleight of Satan to pursue the guiltless unto death, than in the other. Here is special care and wisdom to be used. And so likewise for their confessing, Satan doth gain more by their confession, than by their denial, and therefore rather bewrayeth them himself, and forceth them to confession, oftener than unto denial.  M. B. 
These things are beyond my reach, I cannot conceive of them. I pray you open it so as that I may perceive your meaning, and see some ground of reason for that which you shall affirm.  Dan. 
Then is it requisite to stand upon them more at large. And let us begin with the latter.  M. B. 
If you go first to the latter, then show some reason or experience that Satan bewrayeth the witches, and draweth them to confess, and to disclose themselves, rather than to conceal and hide their doings. I can tell you this before hand, that the common opinion is otherwise, which seemeth to be grounded both upon reason and experience.  Dan. 
I know the common opinion is as you say: But I do much marvel at it, seeing reason and experience do prove the contrary as I will show. As first, touching reason, you will grant, that the devils dealing altogether by sleight and subtleties, do that which doth most further their purposes and desires.  M. B. 
That is the very reason why the devil would by no means have the witches bewrayed, as it is thought because he would lurk secretly to do mischief.  Dan. 
Indeed it were a good reason to prove that 〈◊〉 if Satan received his power from the witch, or could do nothing but by her sending, or needed to be harboured by her, or had no mind to meddle, but as it were hired to satisfy her wrath. But seeing all these be absurd, and he useth the witch and conjuror but under a colour to bring in further evils, it must needs follow, that the disclosing is fit for his purpose, than the keeping secret, for if they should be kept secret, how should he make men think that he doth so many harms at the request of the witch? how should he draw so many to run after devils, to seek help at their hands? how should he procure so many to use wicked and blasphemous charms and sorceries, and in so horrible manner to abuse the blessed name of God, and his most sacred word? Or how should he draw the people into manifold errors, and to thirst even in rage after innocent blood? All these and a number such like he procureth and furthereth, by disclosing witches.  M. B. 
But how shall this reason be confirmed by experience: No doubt in show he is loath to have his Dame (as some speak) disclosed.  Dan. 
You say well, that in show he is loath to have the witch bewrayed: for indeed it is only in show, seeing he would make her and others also believe, even when he doth bewray her by one means or other, that it is sore against his liking.  M. B. 
I pray you make that evident.  Dan. 
When one feéleth himself plagued any way, and doth take it to be by Satan, admit it be so: he goeth to a cunning man, and he showeth him in a glass, or in a Crystal the shape of the witch. Who now bewrayeth her?  M. B. 
That is the cunning man's spirit which bewrayeth her, and not her spirit which she dealeth withal.  Dan. 
You are not sure of that: for it may be the same devil that she dealeth withal, that resembleth her in the glass: none can do it better.  M. B. 
I do not think that he departeth away from her.  Dan. 
Yea, but you must remember that she which dealeth with a spirit, dealeth not with a devil, but with devils: for many do join together. When one of them departeth and carrieth the matter to the cunning man, they do not all depart. But what if it be as you said, that some other spirits do bewray, do you think he doth it against the liking of the witch's spirit? Is Satan divided against Satan? Will Satan bewray Satan to his hindrance? Remember what our Saviour hath taught touching that.  M. B. 
Then if it be so, do you not take it a sufficient proof against a witch, even for a jury to find guilty upon their oath, if a cunning man by his spirit do bewray any.  Dan. 
It is the most insufficient proof that can be, for although he do tell true in bewraying many, as their own confessions do witness: yet he doth it of an evil purpose, he is a liar, and the father of lies, he desireth chief to accuse the innocent, that he may bring men to be guilty of innocent blood, 〈◊〉 make the people believe there be multitudes of witches, to set them a work to learn charms and sorceries, and chief, that they may be brought to seek unto him, as the bewrayer even in pity, of such bad people. Now, because he craftily bewrayeth some, to get credit, shall men's verdict by oath, even unto blood, be grounded upon his testimony? If a devil should come in unto a jury and say the party about whom you inquire is a witch, should they believe him, or would they say let him be sworn, and witness upon his oath? If not, why should they believe that which he hath spoken to the cunning man?  M. B. 
Surely I am out of doubt he doth all in craft unto a most bad purpose, and that no credit ought to be given unto his testimony when it is voluntary. But what say you to his testimony, when he is even charged and forced in the name and power of God to tell the truth? It seemeth than he would conceal, but cannot.  Dan. 
The conjuror which supposeth that he doth bind by the name and power of God to tell him the truth, is utterly deluded. For he is not bound, but is glad that the most glorious name of God is so horribly abused, and that he can draw men into such a gulf of all abomination.  M. B. 
Nay, I do not mean the conjuror, but when such as be godly go about to cast him forth by prayer.  Dan. 
This I take to be your meaning: a man or a woman is possessed with a Devil, put case it be so indeed (to distinguish them from so many counterfeits, as have been) and men assemble together where the possession is, and cal● upon God, and then charge Satan in the name of Christ to tell how he came there, and who sent him.  M. B. 
I mean so indeed. And some being possessed, the devil being charged to tell who sent him, he hath confessed, that such a man did conjure him in thither, or such a witch did send him. Shall not this be of force to convince?  Dan. 
When any is possessed by the fiend, men's compassion, their love and pity are to be showed, even to help what they can in such a distress. They ought with all instant suit to entreat the Lord to show mercy, and to expel him. The doctrine of the holy scriptures doth warrant this: but for men to talk and question with him, I see no warrant at all by God's word, much less to command and adjure him to departed. He is the Lords executioner, he hath sent him, we may entreat the Lord to remove him, but what authority have we to command him to departed, where God hath sent him?  M. B. 
Men have no authority, I grant, but they command and adjure him in the name and power of the Lord, for to departed.  Dan. 
That I take ought not to be, for mark this comparison: the Prince is displeased with a subject for some disloyalty: An Officer is sent from the Prince to attach and imprison him: shall he or any other charge this Officer in the Prince's name to let him alone, and not to meddle? Is not their way only to pacify the Prince, and so the Prince will command the Officer to cease? Even so, where God sendeth Satan his executioner, the only way is to entreat the Lord to be pacified, for than shall the tormentor no longer remain.  M. B. 
How doth this which you speak agree with that which we read in the Acts of the Apostles, how S. Paul commanded the devil to come out of a Maid at Philippos?  Dan. 
The holy Apostles and others in the Primitive Church, had an extraordinary power given them to cast forth devils, and to heal diseases, and they did execute the same power by the direction and instinct of the holy Ghost. We may not draw a pattern from that.  M. B. 
We see that devils are sometimes expelled.  Dan. 
They are when the Lord is entreated, otherwise they but seem to be bound by adjuration and expelled. But how can it be proved, that the father of lies may be bound, and forced through charge and adjuration in the name and power of God to tell the truth? And what warrant have we to learn any truth from his mouth? As to say we command thee in the name of God, that thou tell us who sent thee. Who sent thee? who sent thee? Mother joan, Mother joan, saith he. Also we command thee to tell us, who sent thee. L. B. conjured me in hither (saith he) Shall we think he doth this even compelled? Or shall we ground upon it for certainty, that he telleth no lie?  M. B. 
The devil in a party possessed hath said, such a man conjured me in hither. The conjuror hath been put to death for it, and hath confessed so much. The devil in an other hath said, such a woman sent me; it hath likewise been confessed by the woman.  Dan. 
All this maketh for that which I affirm. The Lord giveth him power to possess a man. He under a colour will be sent by a conjuror, or by a witch: and the one thinketh the devil entereth at her entreaty: the other supposeth he doth even bind him thereto, whereas he ruleth both their minds, and setteth them a work. Then doth he willingly bewray them, even for many subtle purposes: but chief, that he may establish conjurations, witchcrafts and charms, that he may be sought unto, that he may set the people a work in their calamities to be troubled about witches and conjurers, as though they could plague, and never look to God, and that bewraying some witches and conjurers, he may win credit, and be believed, even when he accuseth falsely, that he may bring innocent blood upon the land. Let all men take heéd how upon their oath they give a verdict, especially touching life, upon his word howsoever he seem to be forced thereunto: all is most deep craft and subtlety in him.  Sam. 
I pray you give me leave to speak a little. You say the devil willingly bewrayeth witches and conjurers and that for many subtle purposes. I have heard of divers things done of late which seem quite contrary, and that he taketh it grievously when they do confess and bewray matters.  Dan. 
He will seem to take it in evil part, but let us hear the matters, and you shall see plainly that he juggleth, and maketh show of that which is contrary to his practice.  Sam. 
Well, I have heard very credibly, that a woman of late, suspected another woman to be a witch, & that she had hurt her some way. She procured a gentleman to send for the party suspected, and charging her in his presence, she left her to the Gentleman, who taking her aside, and walking alone with her, began to admonish and persuade her to renounce the devil & to forsake such wicked ways: While he was thus persuading, and she denying stiffly that she was any such woman, suddenly there appeared some distance from them, a Weasill or Lobsterre looking even upon them. Look (said the Gentleman) yonder same is thy spirit. Ah master (said she) that is a vermin, there be many of them every where. Well, as they went towards it, it was vanished out of sight: by and by it appeared again, and looked upon them. Surely (said the Gentleman) it is thy spirit: but she still denied, and with that her mouth was drawn awry. Then he pressed her further, and she confessed all. She confessed she had hurt and killed by sending her spirit. The Gentleman being no justice, let her go home, and did mind to open the matter unto some justice: When she was come home, another witch meeteth her, and saith, Ah thou beast, what hast thou done? thou hast bewrayed us all. What remedy now (said she?) What remedy said the other? send thy spirit & touch him: she sent her spirit, and of a sudden the Gentleman had as it were a flash of fire about him. He lifted up his heart to God, and felt no hurt. The spirit returneth, and told he could not hurt him because he had faith: what then, said the other witch, hath he nothing that thou mayst touch? he hath a child said the other. Send thy spirit, said she, and touch the child: she sent her spirit, the child was in great pain and died. The witches were hanged and confessed.  Dan. 
What is the chief thing which you allege this for?  Sam. 
To show how unwilling the devil was that the witch should confess and bewray things. No doubt it should seem, that when the Gentleman was talking with her, he appeared to call her away, for fear lest she should confess: and when she would not come away, he drew her mouth awry: and when she had confessed, the devil complained unto the other witch, and made her chide her.  Dan. 
The thing is as clear as may be, that he willingly bewrayed them: and will you imagine the contrary? Why did he appear in a likeness, but even to enforce her for to confess, both by abashing, and giving the Gentleman evident notice, especially, when he drew her mouth awry? And why did he set on the other witch to move her that had confessed to send her spirit, but that he would have the matter more open, and bring them both to light.  Sam. 
What should move him to bewray the witches? what could he gain by it?  Dan. 
Nay, what almost doth he not gain by it? Now all the country rings of the matter. As if the witches set on their spirits to lame and to kill: and that they do not meddle, but sent by them. He did know what power he had from God to afflict any: he will deal by witches: he maketh others afraid of them, that so they may accuse them. He findeth means to have all disclosed. He moveth the witches to send him against the gentleman: he knoweth what he can do: he returneth and saith there is faith: As though God did not give him power sometimes to afflict the faithful? Or as if he could touch all that have no faith? If he could, the greatest part of the world should be destroyed by him. For they be very few in the world in comparison which have the true faith. Then must he be sent to the child that hath no faith: doth not the faith of the parents hold God's protection over their infants as over themselves? Here is Satan's craft: either he did know by things breéding in the body of the child that it would at such time fall sick and die: and he would be taken to be the killer of the child, to bear in hand that he hath such power & will do when he is requested. Or else he had power given him of God, and would bring it about this way. If he did strike the child, do you imagine he doth it at her pleasure? Or do you think he would never have thought of any such thing, but moved by her? Do not all the armies of devils go about continually, seeking whom they may devour? Do they not wait where God will give them power to strike? Shall we still be so simple as to think that women need to hire or to entreat them to do harm? Look unto God, for those wicked spirits play all parts in the play, and delude both the witches and others.  Sam. 
I will tell you another thing which was done of late. A woman being suspected to be a witch, and to have done some hurt among cattle, was examined, and confessed indeed, that she had a spirit which did abide in a hollow treé, where there was an hole, out of which he spoke unto her. And ever when she was offended with any, she went to that tree, and sent him to kill their cattle. She was persuaded to confess her fault openly, and to promise that she would utterly forsak such ungodly ways: after she had made this open confession, the spirit came unto her being alone. Ah, said he, thou hast confessed and bewrayed all, I could teéme it to rend thee in pieces: with that she was afraid, and wound away, and got her into company. Within some few weeks after, she fell out greatly into anger against one man. Towards the tree she goeth, and before she came at it, Ah, said the spirit, wherefore comest thou? who hath angered thee? Such a man, said the witch. And what wouldst thou have me do said the spirit? He hath (saith she) two horses going yonder, touch them or one of them. Well, I think even that night one of the horses died, and the other was little better. Indeed they recovered that one again which was not dead, but in very evil case. Here me thinketh it is plain: he was angry that she had bewrayed all. And yet when she came to the tree he let go all displeasure and went readily.  Dan. 
Do you think all is plain here. Indeed here is that plain dealing which devils do use. First, do you think Satan lodgeth in an hollow treé? Is he become so lazy, and idle? hath he left off to be as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour? hath he put off the bloody and cruel nature of the fiery Dragon, so that he mindeth no harm, but when an angry woman shall entreat him to go kill a Cow or a horse? Is he become so doting with age, that men shall espy his craft: yea, be found craftier than he is? Alas may there not be deép subtlety in these things?  Sam. 
Do you think there is nothing but subtlety in these things?  Dan. 
Do I think there is nothing but subtlety? Tell me what you think. What other end can there be but subtlety?  Sam. 
He may have this purpose (as I think the devils study nothing else) to do harm.  Dan. 
I do not deny that: for all his craft tendeth unto harm. But what harm mean you?  Sam. 
You see here he killed men's cattle.  Dan. 
It may be he did: but how know you that?  Sam. 
You see he went at her request & killed one horse, and almost killed the other.  Dan. 
I would be loath to adventure my hand upon that: For who told you, that he killed the one, and almost killed the other?  Sam. 
The witch herself hath confessed the whole matter.  Dan. 
UUho told the witch so?  Sam. 
Her spirit told her that he did it at her request.  Dan. 
He is a credible person, and kind he was unto her as it seemeth.  Sam. 
Nay, but we see all things fell out according as she confessed.  Dan. 
How do you mean?  Sam. 
Why, she confessed her fault, the spirit was angry with her, afterward she fell out with that man, and upon th●● his horse died, she confessed she sent the spirit, how could all things fall out so fit?  Dan. 
The spirit when she came towards the tree, asked her, wherefore comest thou? who hath angered thee?  Sam. 
He did so.  Dan. 
And do you imagine that the devil did lie there and knew nothing until she came and told him?  Sam. 
Why needed he ask to her if he did know?  Dan. 
Because he is subtle: for he wrought in her heart, and kindled her wrath, and procured the falling out between her and that man: he did know either that the horses at that time had somewhat in them which would bring death, or else that the Lord had given him power for to strike them: he moved and wrought in her heart to have her come again to the tree: he seemed to be angry that she had confessed before, but was not, but sought to have things known. If he had not known that the horse should die, either by some natural cause, which would then break forth, or by some power given to him, he would not at this time have moved her heart to go to the tree. And if her wrath had without his suggestion carried her so far, he could quickly have turned her: for great is the efficacy of Satan's working in the hearts of such.  Sam. 
But I marked one thing which you said before, 〈◊〉 that it might be that God giveth sometimes power to the Devil, even at the sending of the witch.  Dan. 
I say that God in justice giveth power unto Satan to delude, because men refuse to love his truth: but that maketh not that the devil obtaineth any power to hurt because the witch sendeth, but the fault is in men, the sins of the people give power to the devil: for God is offended, and sendeth (as S. Paul saith) strong delusion. But have you any more examples to prove that the Devil is not willing to have witches bewrayed▪  Sam. 
I have heard of many such like, but you say all is but craft, and that he would have men think he doth all harms that are done.  Dan. 
The Devil would have men believe that he doth all, if he could bring it about: And therefore, it is for his advantage if he do hurt, to have it not kept secret, but openly to be made known.  M. B. 
what say you then unto this, a witch is apprehended upon vehement suspicion, and carried before a justice: he handleth the matter in such sort that she confesseth, as I heard of one not long since: her confession was to this effect: She had two spirits, one like a Weasill, the other like a Mouse. These, she said, did many things for her. Now, she accused a woman about ten or twelve miles off, whom (it may be) she did not know, and yet could name, and not only that, but said, the woman had, as it were, a little big in her mouth, where the spirit did suck blood.  Dan. 
It is a most easy thing for the devil to tell witches, that such a man or such a woman is a witch, and hath this or that secret mark upon them. And within these few years he hath by witches and cunning men, accused such as were very religious and godly. Men must beware that they proceed not upon his testimony: he is not to be meddled withal, nor any meddling which he useth, is to be taken in good part, seeing he doth all in deép subtleties.  M. B. 
I do take it, that the testimony of the devil ought not of itself to have any force with a jury, unless it can be proved by some other firm proofs. But what say you unto this, a witch is condemned, and telleth at the gallows not only what she hath done, but also of whom she first had her spirit. She doth this in repentance, and even ready to departed out of the world. It is to be presumed that she will not in this case lie, nor accuse falsely: Let it be some woman in another town, whom she saith, brought her the spirit. This woman is also suspected by some of her neighbours, apprehended and brought to judgement, and stiffly denieth that she is any witch, or that she ever delivered any spirit unto the other which accused her. Now here is the question, Is not the testimony of the woman upon her death, a sufficient warrant for a jury to find this woman guilty? here they have now the testimony not of the Devil to proceéd by, but of a woman, and though not upon her oath, yet upon her death, which is no less.  Dan. 
This testimony may seem to be sufficient even to warrant a jury to find guilty, though it touch life: but if we look well into it, we shall see it is not.  M. B. 
It may be you take it to be infirm, because it is the testimony but of one.  Dan. 
Nay, not only in respect that it is the testimony but of one, but that it is the testimony of such a one.  M. B. 
I put the case of such an one as doth show repentance, who though she hath been bad, yet now may be believed.  Dan. 
I do not mean in that respect, as to say she was a witch, and therefore not to be credited: but if she repent never so much, yet her testimony in this is weak, because she may be utterly deceived, and think she telleth the truth, when it was nothing so, but she utterly deluded.  M. B. 
Do you mean, that 〈◊〉 may make the other woman think, that such a woman delivered her the spirit, and never no such matter?  Dan. 
Yea, that is my meaning.  M. B. 
It is far beyond my reach to see how that can be.  Dan. 
You must consider that the devil doth many ways delude witches, and make them believe things which are nothing so. In Germany and other countries, the devils have so deluded the witches, as to make them believe that they raise tempests of lightnings and thunders. For the devils do know when these things be coming, tempests of winds, and thunders, and feign would he make the blind world believe that those great works of God, be not Gods but his: And that is the cause why he coveteth to appear in them. These devils make the witches believe, that at their request they kill both men and beasts, and many ways afflict, when as many of the things fall out naturally, which they would seem to do, and the rest in which they have power given to work, they stir up the witch but under a colour for to send them. These devils make the witches in some places believe, that they are turned into the likeness of wolves, that they rend and tear sheep, that they meet together & banquet, that sometimes they fly or ride in the air, which things indeed are nothing so, but they strongly delude the fantasies of the witches: Even so the devil can delude a poor woman with the likeness of another woman delivering a mouse or a cat unto her, by appearing in such a likeness. Or he can set a strong fantasy in the mind that is oppressed with melancholy, that such or such a matter was, which indeed was never so. Men must be wise in these causes, or else may they soon be circumvented by the crafts of Satan and drawn into great sin.  M. B. 
If it be thus, then how should a jury condemn by their verdict any witch? For she hath not killed, nor the devil at her request, but maketh her believe he did it at her request.  Dan. 
A witch by the word of God ought to die the death not because she killeth men, for that she cannot (unless it be those witches which kill by poison, which either they receive from the devil, or he teacheth them to make) but because she dealeth with devils. And so if a jury do find proof that she hath dealt with devils, they may and aught to find them guilty of witchcraft.  M. B. 
If they find them guilty to have dealt with devils, and cannot say they have murdered men, the law doth not put them to death.  Dan. 
It were to be wished, that the law were more perfect in that respect, even to cut off all such abominations. These cunning men and women which deal with spirits and charms seeming to do good, and draw the people into manifold impieties, with all other which have familiarity with devils, or use conjurations, aught to be rooted out, that others might see and fear.  M. B. 
You will not have the testimony of Devils to be of any credit with a jury, what say you then unto men, there be some which die, and take it upon their death, that they are bewitched, and will say precisely such or such have done it. For that is in the other point touching likelihoods.  Dan. 
They are bewitched indeed, for the devil doth delude their minds: for you shall find them able to render no reason but only this, in their conscience the party is nought and they are out of doubt it is so.  M. B. 
That may be as you say in some, but I have known a woman myself which many have counted to be a witch, and many things have fallen out where she hath taken displeasure. Do you not think that is a firm proof? She denieth, but the things which fall out, do manifest her to be nought.  Dan. 
You must show the things, and thereby it will appear.  M. B. 
She fell out, or else at the least seemed to be displeased with one, and he had an hog died suddenly. An other thought she was displeased with him, and his horse fell sick. A third could not sit upon his stool at work. And within nine or ten years space divers others. One saw the devil bigger than a cat with great eyes. An other was haunted with a spirit. An other brewing, the drink would not work in the fat. An other saw a thing in her house as big as a lamb, playing in the window: Another in her grievous torment saw the woman stand by her all the night, whom she suspected to bewitch her, and divers such like, which were too long to reckon up. If she were not a witch, how should all these fall out so fit?  Dan. 
I have showed already, that where Satan hath a witch to deal by, he bringeth it about, that in all such things as he hath power given him of God, he will seem to do nothing but requested and sent by the witch. In those things which fall out in sicknesses, lameness & death, upon natural causes, he worketh in such sort, as that he maketh the witch believe she doth them. And this he coveteth to have break forth by her confession. Now, where he hath no witch to deal by, he gaineth exceedingly, if he can work in the minds of any a strong suspicion of any man or woman. For if it be once begun, he pursueth it with all his power and cunning. If one be visited with grievous torment of sickness, and be so ignorant, and void of the faith in God's providence, that he imagine the devil doth it at the sending by a witch, the devil will delude him, and make him believe that the witch standeth by him. The man or woman suspected cannot come there: Who then worketh that illusion but Satan? Another is afraid of the devil to be sent unto him, by that party whom he suspecteth to be a witch: and thus through want of faith in God, giveth the devil the more power over him, either to hurt, or to appear unto him. For Satan haunteth all men continually, seeking all occasions, and needeth not to be sent by man or woman. They be exceéding blind which will reason thus, an evil spirit came and appeared unto me, after I had angered such a woman, therefore she sent him. Satan if he have power to do harm, or know where somewhat will follow, is he not cunning to make the party which shall receive the harm, to fall out with some that he may suspect, and so the harm may seém to come from that party? Again, in fear, in the dark men take some little cat or dog to be an ugly devil. As not long since a rugged water Spaniel having a chain, came to a man's door that had a saut bitch, and some espied him in the dark, and said it was a thing as big as a colt, and had eyes as great as saucers. Hereupon some came to charge him, and did charge him in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy Ghost, to tell what he was. The dog at the last told them, for he spoke in his language, & said, bowgh, and thereby they did know what he was. If he do know where harms do follow upon natural causes in men or beasts, he laboureth either to make them offended, and to fall out with the party that is suspected, or at the least to persuade them of such displeasure conceived, that the harms may seem to come from the same. If he do torment indeed having power to possess the body, he will not stick to lie, and to say such a woman sent him.  M. B. 
And doth it not fall out sometimes, that as he saith such a woman sent him, so the woman upon examination confesseth so much.  Dan. 
Yea, but I speak where he hath no witch to deal by, but pursueth the innocent with suspicion upon suspicion, that men may be guilty of innocent blood. He telleth the truth sometimes, to the end he may be credited when he doth lie. For let no man be so simple as to think, that he will ever tell truth but for some wicked purpose.  M. B. 
Yet this of all the rest seemeth most strange unto me, how so many things should fall out, as it seemeth, after the displeasure of a suspected person, and some of them such as apparently are done by Satan, as in drink not working, or in cream, when butter will not come, and yet the party suspected is not a witch.  Dan. 
Oh sir the sleights of Satan in compassing such matters be marvelous. I know it is taken (as they say) to be dead sure that the party is a witch, if sundry such shows of matters do concur. But how easy a thing is it for crafty devils to compass such matters?  M. B. 
Then you do not think that common fame is sufficient to warrant the conscience of the juror, to condemn any.  Dan. 
Experience doth teach how heady much people are in judging men or women to be witches upon every surmise. And the power imagined to be in witches, which breédeth a fear in many, causeth them to be credulous. Many go so far, that if they can entice children to accuse their parents, they think it a good work.  M. B. 
You say the testimony of the devil is not to be taken, although it be manifest that he doth many times tell the truth, because when he speaketh the truth, he doth it of a bad purpose. And you hold it the testimony of the devil, not only which he speaketh when any charge him, but also which the cunning men & women give, in as much as they can say nothing but upon his word. Moreover, unless I mistake you, the testimony of a witch in many things at her death, is not as you say any other than the testimony of the devil, because the devil hath deceived her, and made her believe things which were nothing so. Besides all this, you will have likelihoods and suspicions to be of no weight, nor common fame and opinion to move the conscience of a jury, because Satan is exceéding subtle in all these. Then how shall a jury find a witch? What proofs will you have?  Dan. 
Men are upon their oath to deal, & it doth touch life, if they do find any guilty of witchcraft. This is a most weighty matter: whereupon it followeth, that there must be either due proof by sufficient witnesses, or else the confession of the witch. For if the testimony be such as may be false, as all that cometh from devils is to be suspected: or if it be but upon rumours, and likelihoods, in which there may be exceéding sleights of Satan, as for the most part there be: how can that jury answer before God, which upon their oath are not sure, but that so proceeding they may condemn the innocent, as often it cometh to pass.  M. B. 
You mistake one point, for the finding of a witch guilty by a jury doth not in all causes touch blood.  Dan. 
I am not deceived, for where the jury having but likelihoods doth find a man or a woman guilty but for killing a beast, it casteth them into prison, setteth them upon the pillory, and not only diffameth them for ever, but also if suspicion follow again and arraignment, it is death: you see then how near a way they have made unto blood. But if it touch not blood, but the party escape with the imprisonment and pillory, & never again fall into suspicion, how grievous an infamy is it, to have been condemned by jury to be a witch? I speak it where it is only upon suspicion, or suchtestimonie as is only from Satan, and the party may be clear.  M. B. 
It falleth out sometimes that upon suspicion and common fame they hit right, and the party which would not confess any witchery upon examination, and arraignment, being condemned doth confess it.  Dan. 
Let it be granted that the jury upon Satan's testimony, or suspicions and common fame, sometimes hitteth right, which yet I fear is very seldom, that is no warrant before God for men that are sworn, for are they sworn to indict upon likelihoods, or upon knowledge in that which upon sound testimony or confession they shall find? If the party be a witch which is suspected, & yet no proof, the jury doth more rightly in acquitting, than in condemning, for what warrant have they upon their oath to go by guess, or to find that which they know not?  M. B. 
I do take it men offend grievously, if upon unsufficient proof they condemn the innocent, and especially, because they are solemnly sworn: but if they hit right, though it be only by conjectures and likelihoods, I cannot see how they should therein offend: they condemn not the innocent, they do the party no wrong.  Dan. 
I do not say they are to be charged with any innocent blood, or wrong to the party: but I ask what warrant they have before God upon oath to touch blood by suspitons. Admit one be arraigned upon felony, the likelihoods are great that he is guilty of the same, but yet it may be he is clear. What is a jury now to do? Are they to venture upon the life of a man by their oath by suspicions? Let it be he is one that God knoweth to be guilty, but no man can disclose the same, and therefore they clear him, do they commit any offence? Are they bound to find that which they cannot know? What innocent person than may not be condemned?  Sam. 
I pray you give me leave a little. I do not well conceive this matter about finding out and condemning of witches. It is somewhat strange unto me which you speak I have myself sundry times been of the jury when witches have been arraigned, we have found them guilty upon common fame, upon likelihoods, and upon such testimony as you disallow. They have indeed taken it upon their deaths that they were innocent, but that never made me to doubt but that they were witches: for it is said, the devil hath such power over them, that he will not suffer them to confess.  Dan. 
What should move you to think that the devil will not have them to confess? you see some do confess when they be examined, and when they be executed: The devil hath power over the most desperate thieves and murderers?  Sam. 
Yea but he careth not so much though the thieves and the murderers do confess, it maketh not so much against him, as when witches bewray all.  Dan. 
What, do you take it he is loath to be defamed or hardly thought off? Otherwise what should it make against him when witches confess? It is some step to repentance when thieves and murderers acknowledge their sins, and if he can hinder them, or hold them desperate from confessing he will. It is apparent that he coveteth to have witches to confess▪ it maketh so much for him▪ He would have men judge that there be an hundred fo●●e more witches than there be. He discloseth by his cunning men & women, and otherwise. He coveteth greatly to have it thought that he doth all, in tempests, in strange plagues and diseases which light upon man or beast. And for this cause he maketh the witch believe and confess more than all, that is, that at her request he did that which he never did nor could do: unless we will deny the sovereignty, and providence of God over all.  Sam. 
If Satan gain so much by disclosing them, what should be the reason that men are generally persuaded that he coveteth to have the things kept secret, and so will not let the witch confess.  Dan. 
It ariseth from false persuasions, and from a false fear that witches do so many harms, and that at their sending and request the spirits work all. If Satan be so kind and serviceable to the witch: how is it that he doth not fetch her some money? For he knoweth where it is lost, or where it lieth in men's houses. He telleth the witch he can make a man lame. He saith he can kill an horse. Yea at sometime he will say he can and will (if she will have it so) kill a man. As if it were in his power to do many great things, and will not but requested. Let us see if all the devils can fetch one penny out of a man's house, whose horse or cow they say they have killed. The conjuror, saith he, can conjure him into a man, or out of a man: let him conjure him but into a man's chest if he can, to fetch somewhat from thence. If the devils can not do these things, then be assured that either they make but a show of killing and laming, as they do in the most of such harms, or else where they do hurt, it is upon special leave from God, and not from the witch's pleasure. And to what purpose then should all such jugglings and shows serve, if they should be kept close and not confessed.  Sam. 
Yet for my better satisfaction give me leave without offence to lay open some particulars which I have seéns. I was of a jury not many years past, when there was an old woman arraigned for a witch. There came in eight or ten which gave evidence against her. I do not remember every particular: but the chief for some things were of small value. One woman came in and testified upon her oath that her husband upon his death bed, took it upon his death, that he was bewitched, for he pined a long time. And he said further, he was sure that woman had bewitched him. He took her to be nought, and thought she was angry with him, because she would have borrowed five shillings of him, and he denied to lend it her. The woman took her oath also, that she thought in her conscience that the old woman was a witch, and that she killed her husband. There came in a man that halted, he told a shrewd tale. I once, said he, had both my legs sound. This old woman and I fell out and did chide. She said she would be even with me. Within three days after I had such a pain in my knee that I could not stand. And ever since I go halting of it, and now and then feel some pain. There came in an other, a little fellow that was very earnest, me thinks I see him yet. He took his oath directly that she was a witch: I did once anger her said he, but I did repent me: for I looked somewhat would follow. And the next night, I saw the ugliest sight that ever I saw: I awaked suddenly out of my sleep, and there was me thought a great face, as big as they use to set up in the sign of the Saracens-head, looked full in my face. I was scarce mine own man two days after. An other came in, a woman and her child died with grievous pain, & she took her oath, that in her conscience she killed her child. Then followed a man, and he said he could not tell, but he thought she was once angry with him because she came to beg a few potherbs, and he denied her: and presently after he heard a thing as he thought to whisper in his ear, thou shalt be bewitched. The next day he had such a pain in his back, that he could not sit upright: he said he sent to a cunning woman, she told he was bewitched, and by a woman that came for potherbs. But she said he should recover of it, and so he said he did within some ten days. Then came in two or three grave honest men, which testified that she was by common fame accounted a witch. We found her guilty, for what could we do less, she was condemned and executed: and upon the ladder she made her prayer, and took it upon her death she was innocent and free from all such dealings. Do you think we did not well?  Dan. 
Nay what think you? Are you sure she was a witch? May it not be she was innocent, and you upon your oaths shed innocent blood?  Sam. 
If she were innocent what could we do less? we went according to the evidence of such as were sworn, they swore that they in their conscience took her to be a witch, and that she did those things.  Dan. 
If other take their oath that in their conscience they think so, is that sufficient to warrant men upon mine oath to say it is so?  Sam. 
Nay, but you see what matters they brought, which persuaded them to think so.  Dan. 
Might not both you and they be deceived in your thinking, or may you upon matters which may induce you to think so, present upon your oath that you know it is so?  Sam. 
If witnesses come in and swear falsely, the jury proceeding according, their testimony is clear from blame, for they go but by testimony of men sworn.  Dan. 
If witnesses do swear directly that in their knowledge a matter was so or so, and swear falsely, the jury is clear which proceedeth according to their evidence: unless the jury do perceive that their oath can not be true. But what is that to make the testimony sufficient where men do but think, and can show no necessary reason to ground their thought upon? As let us see in all these which one could prove that she must needs be a witch. One saith her husband took it upon his death that she killed him, because he would not lend her five shillings: doth this prove she bewitched him? Can the devil kill a man at his pleasure, to gratify the witch? Is it not rather to be judged he died of some pining sickness growing from an evil constitution of body, which the devil did know, and would set him at some variance with one old woman or other, that so it might breed suspicion of witchcraft.  Sam. 
You see there were some things which could not be done but by the devil.  Dan. 
In deed the great face which the man thought he saw, was the illusion of the devil. But is this a good proof, the devil appeareth to a man after he hath displeased a woman, therefore she sent him? Doth not Satan haunt all men continually, and would if he could get leave from God, terrify them with such illusions▪ When men are afraid, and have strong imaginations? What reason did the woman show which took it upon her conscience that the old woman killed her child, to prove that it was so? If she thought so in her conscience, and ten thousand more with her upon bare imagination, was that a warrant for you to swear solemnly that it was so? As for the testimony of the cunning woman that he was bewitched which had the pain in his back, upon the denial of potherbs, it was the testimony but of the devil, as I showed before. And what is common fame grounded upon imaginations?  Sam. 
Then you think we did amiss do you?  Dan. 
I would not upon mine oath do such a thing for to gain a kingdom.  Sam. 
It may be she was a witch, although she took it upon her death that she was not.  Dan. 
It is rather to be thought she was not a witch: for what should make her deny it upon her death? The devil had accused her to be a witch, for direct testimony against her but his.  Sam. 
You say it was the devil that told by the cunning woman that she was a witch.  Dan. 
And do you think it was any other but Satan?  Sam. 
I did not at that time think it was the devil: but now I see it could be none other.  Dan. 
Then be wiser hereafter, and sorry for that which you have done.  Sam. 
In deed I have cause to be grieved if she were not a witch.  Dan. 
If she were a witch your warrant was small: but she being no witch, you have taken away both her life, and covered her with infamy.  Sam. 
I was of an other jury since, and there was a woman indicted for a witch, but not for killing any man or child. There came in five or six against her: the first was an old woman, and she said she had displeased her, as she thought, and within two or three nights after as she sat by her fire, there was a thing like a toad, or like some little crab fish which did creep upon the earth, she took a beasome & swept it away, and suddenly her body was gripped. An other fell out with her as she said, and her hens began to die up, until she burned one hen alive. A third man came in, and he said she was once angry with him, he had a dun cow which was tied up in a house, for it was in winter, he feared that some evil would follow, and for his life he could not come in where she was, but he must needs take up her tail and kiss under it. Two or three other came in & said she was by common fame accounted a Witch. We found her guilty, and she was condemned to prison, and to the pillory, but stood stiff in it that she was no witch.  Dan. 
And are you sure she was one?  Sam. 
I think verily she was one, although there be many of her neighbours which think she is none: for how could those things follow so upon her anger? It seemeth they were all done by the devil.  Dan. 
He is cunning that can tell that: let it be that it was the devil which appeared to the old woman like a toad, or like a crab fish, and that he did gripe her body: doth it follow therefore of necessity that the other woman sent him? He can not turn himself into any likeness unless God give him leave, as he doth in justice permit that so he may delude ignorant persons▪ No witch can give him power to appear unto any in a visible shape. He had this granted him from God, and Satan by and by will set anger, and then appear, that it might seem it grew from that.  Sam. 
We see he appeareth unto witches, and conjurers.  Dan. 
Yea but we may not think he can at his pleasure take a likeness for to appear in. That he doth appear unto witches and conjurers, it is granted in God's wrath to the end he may strongly delude such wicked people as will not hear and obey the voice of the Lord God. For the devils are chained up by Gods most mighty power & providence, and in all things so far as he letteth forth their chain, so far they proceed, one inch further they can not proceed. Where men love darkness more than light, he hath leave given him to do many things. Some he terrifieth with ugley shapes, some he enticeth with fair shows, others he playeth withal in likeness of a Weasel, or Mouse, or some such small vermin.  Sam. 
I thought Satan could appear in what likeness he would, and to whom he would, if the witch sent him.  Dan. 
Therein you were much deceived: for the sending by the witch can give him no power, and if he had power, he would no doubt in all places appear unto many as far and in such sort, as should best serve his turn. Therefore if he appear unto any man, let him think God hath given him leave to go thus far with me, and let him call for faith to resist him, and for true wisdom that he may not be deceived nor deluded by him.  Sam. 
But doth he not appear sometimes when the witches send him?  Dan. 
Where he findeth it is granted unto him for to appear, he moveth witches to send him if he have any to deal by: but if there be none, yet will he appear, & deal so far as he hath power given him.  Sam. 
But what say you to the woman's hens?  Dan. 
What should one say to them when they be dead.  Sam. 
I mean do you not think they were bewitched?  Dan. 
Christ saith, a Sparrow can not fall without the will of your heavenly Father: and is not a hen as good as a Sparrow?  Sam. 
Nay I am fully persuaded by that which you have said, that the devil can not touch any thing to kill or to hurt it, but upon special leave from God. They can give him no power, she thinketh she setteth him on, and it is he that setteth her on work. Let these things be no more called into question: but was it not evident that the devil killed those hens? because after the burning of one hen, the woman had no more that died. If Satan did it not, how could they cease dying for that? You said that he where he hath power to hurt in such bodily harms, is willing to cease, that such wickedness may be practised. And then if this hurt were done by the devil, is it not to be thought that the woman was a witch, seeing it followed after she was angry? Let it be that Satan having power to do that he did, would be sent by the witch for a colour, and to make it evident did set anger between her and that other woman, to make men think that he would not deal, but entreated by her being angry. And so we could do no less but find her a witch.  Dan. 
These be weak foundations to set such a weighty building upon. For first it is not certain that the devil killed those hens. Might be they had some infection which he did know would kill them, and he craftily bringeth the matter about, maketh two women fall out (which is the easiest matter of an hundredth) even upon the dying of the hens, that so it might seem they were bewitched. But you say then, how could it be that upon the burning of an hen, there died no more, if the devil did not kill them? Nay how can you tell but that there should no more have died, although the live hen had not been burned? What if he saw there should no more die, and thereupon moved the heart of that woman to use that witchcraft in burning a hen, that it might seem that was a present remedy to drive away devils? Or put case he had the power to kill the woman's hens, either he is a weak killer, or else he goeth to his work but lazily. He could kill a great heard of swine quickly when Christ gave him leave: could he not if the woman had five thousand hens, have killed them all at once? Why did the fool then but nibble killing now one and then one, and so was scared away before he had killed all? If he had power before the hen was burnt for to kill why did he not then when they went about to burn an hen kill the rest? It may be he did not know what they went about, he was laid soft in his pot of wool: and coming to kill an other hen, he was met withal, he smelled the coastmeat, and was scared.  Sam. 
Then you think he did not kill those hens.  Dan. 
What certainty had you that he did kill them? You found it upon your oath that he killed them, and that such a woman sent him and set him a work, and yet it is an hundredth to one he never had power for to touch them.  Sam. 
But what can you say to the other? The man which could not choose but kiss under his cows tail?  Dan. 
I say he was far in love with his cow. Let such men learn to know God, & to expel fantasies out of their minds that the devil may not have such power over them, for he worketh in the fantasies of man's mind, and the more strongly where they fear him, as it appeareth this man did. Satan did work in this man's mind many foolish imaginations, and to make him believe he was bewitched he maketh him fall out with one that may be suspected. And thus you jury men take your oath & condemn many innocent persons, because you believe the devil, & imagine that witches do that which they can not do.  M. B. 
I have heard of many that have been condemned for witches which have taken it upon their death that they were innocent. And sundry of them have had far weaker proofs brought against them then these that have been mentioned.  Dan. 
Yea that is it which I say, men do so little consider the high sovereignty and providence of God over all things: they ascribe so much to the power of the devil and and to the anger of witches, and are in such fear of them, that the least show that can be made by the sleights of Satan deceiveth them. The only way for men that will eschew the suares & subtleties of the devil and all harms by him, is this, even to hear the voice of God, to be taught of him by his lively word which is full of pure light to discover & expel the dark mists of Satan in which he leadeth men out of the way. and to be armed with faith to resist him, as the holy Apostle S. Peter willeth, so such as do forsake this way are seduced into gross errors & into many abominable sins, which carry men to destruction. I must now bid you farewell.  M. B. 
I could be content to hear more in these matters, I see how fond I have erred. But seeing you must be gone, I hope we shall meet here again at some other time, God keep you.  Sam. 
I am bound to give you great thanks. And I pray you when occasion serveth, that you come this way, let us see you at my house.  M. B. 
I thought there had not been such subtle practices of the devil, nor so great sins as he leadeth men into.  Sam. 
It is strange to see how many thousands are carried awry and deceived, yea many that are very wise men.  M. B. 
The devil is too crafty for the wisest, unless they have the light of God's word.  The wife of Sam. 
Husband yonder cometh the good wife R.  Sam. 
I would she had come sooner.  The good wife R. 
Ho, who is within, by your leave.  The wife of Sam. 
I would you had come a little sooner, here was one even now that said you are a witch.  The good wife R. 
Was there one said I am a witch? you do but jest.  The wife of Sam. 
Nay I promise you he was in good earnest.  The good wife R. 
I a Witch? I defy him that saith it, though he be a Lord. I would all the witches in the land were hanged, and their spirits by them.  M. B. 
Would not you be glad if their spirits were hanged up with them to have a gown furred with some of their skins.  The good wife R. 
Out upon them, there were fur.  Sam. 
Wife why didst thou say that he said the good wife R. is a witch? he did not say so.  The wife of Sam. 
Husband I did mark his words well enough, he said she is a witch.  Sam. 
He doth not know her, and how could he say she is a witch?  The wife of Sam. 
What though he did not know her? did he not say she played the witch that heat the spit red hot, and thrust it into her cream, when the butter would not come?  Sam. 
Indeed wife, thou sayest true, he said that was a thing taught by the devil, as also the burning of an hen or of an hog alive, and all such like devices.  The good wife R. 
Is that witchcraft? Some scripture man hath told you so. Did the devil teach it? Nay the good woman at R. H. taught it my husband: she doth more good in one year than all these scripture men will do so long as they live.  M. B. 
Who do you think taught it the cunning woman at R.H.  The good wife R. 
It is a gift which God hath given her, I think the holy spirit of God doth teach her.  M. B. 
You do not think then that the devil doth teach her?  The good wife R. 
How should I think that the Devil doth teach her? Did you ever hear that the devil did teach any good thing?  M. B. 
Do you know that was a good thing?  The good wife R. 
Was it not a good thing to drive the evil spirit out of my cream?  M. B. 
Do you think the devil was afraid of your spit?  The good wife R. 
I know he was driven away, and we have been rid of him ever since.  M. B. 
Can a spit hurt him?  The good wife R. 
It doth hurt him, or it hurteth the witch: One of them I am sure: for he cometh no more. Either she can get him come no more, because it hurteth him: or else she will let him come no more, because it hurteth her.  M. B. 
It is certain that spirits cannot be hurt but with spiritual weapons: therefore your spit cannot fray nor hurt the devil. And how can it hurt the witch, you did not think she was in your cream, did you?  The good wife R. 
Some think she is there, & therefore, when they thrust in the spit they say, If thou be'st here have at thine eye.  M. B. 
If she were in your cream, your butter was not very cleanly.  The good wife R. 
You are merrily disposed M. B. I know you are of my mind, though you put these questions to me. For I am sure none hath counseled more to go to the cunning folk than you.  M. B. 
I was of your mind, but I am not now, for I see how foolish I was. I am sorry that ever I offended so grievously as to counsel any for to seek unto devils.  The good wife R. 
Why, M. B. who hath schooled you to day? I am sure you were of another mind no longer agone than yesterday.  The wife of Sam. 
Truly goodwife R. I think my husband is turned also: here hath been one reasoning with them three or four hours.  The good wife R. 
Is your husband turned to? I would you might lose all your hens one after an other, and then I would she would set her spirit upon your ducks and your geése, and leave you not one alive. Will you come to defend witches?  M. B. 
We do not defend witches.  The good wife R. 
Yes, yes, there be too many that take their part, I would they might witch some of them even into hell, to teach others to defend them. And you M.B. I would your nag might halt a little one of these days: see whether you would not be glad to seek help.  M. B. 
I would seek help, I would carry him to the smith to search if he were not pricked or gravelled.  The good wife R. 
Tush you laugh, If you were plagued as some are, you would not make so light account of it.  M. B. 
You think the devil can kill men's cattle, and lame both man and beast at his pleasure: you think if the witch entreat him and send him he will go, and if she will not have him go, he will not meddle. And you think when he doth come, you can drive him away with an hot spit, or with burning a live hen or a pig.  The good wife R. 
Never tell me I think so, for you yourself have thought so: and let them say what they can all the Scripture men in the world shall never persuade me otherwise.  M. B. 
I do wonder, not so much at your ignorance as at this, that I was even of the same mind that you are and could not see mine own folly.  The good wife R. 
Folly? how wise you are become of a sudden? I know that their spirits lie lurking, for they foster them: and when any body hath angered them, than they call them forth and send them. And look what they bid them do, or hire them to do, that shall be done: as when she is angry, the spirit will ask her what shall I do? such a man hath misused me saith she, go kill his Cow, by and by he goeth & doth it. Go kill such a woman's hens, down go they. And some of them are not content to do these lesser harms, but they will say, go make such a man lame, kill him, or kill his child. Then are they ready and will do any thing: And I think they be happy that can learn to drive them away.  M. B. 
If I should reason with you out of the word of God, you should see that all this is false which you say. The devil can not kill nor hurt any thing no not so much as a poor hen. If he had power who can escape him? Would he tarry to be sent or entreated by a woman? he is a stirrer up unto all harms and mischiefs.  The good wife R. 
What tell you me of God's word? doth not God's word say there be witches, and do not you think God doth suffer bad people? Are you a turnecote? Far you well, I will talk no longer with you.  M. B. 
She is wilful in deed. I will leave you also.  Sam. 
I thank you for your good company.  
FINIS.