A DIALOGUE between a knight and a clerk, concerning the power spiritual and temporal. ¶ The clerk beginneth to speak on this wise saying. CLERICUS. I Wonder/ sir noble knight/ that in few days/ times be changed/ right is buried/ laws be overturned, and statutes be trod under foot. MILES. Those words pass my capacity/ I am a lewd man: and though I went to school in my childhood, yet got I not so profound learning/ that those your words can of me be understand. And therefore worshipful clerk, if ye desire to have communication with me, ye must use a more homely & plainer fashion of speaking. CLE. I have seen in my time/ that kings/ princes/ and all other nobles, have had the church in right great worship: and now I see the contrary/ the church is made a prey to you all/ and many things are challenged of us, and nothing is given us: If we give not our goods/ they be taken from us by strong hand. Our good and catalle/ is destroyed/ our laws and freedom be not holden, but despised and withsayde. MILES. I can not lightly believe, that the king (of whose counsel they of the clergic be) will deal unjustly with you/ neither destroy your law. CLERI. Yea truly against all law, we suffer innumerable wrongs. MILES. I would fain know what ye call law. CLERI. I call law the statutes and ordinances of bishops of Rome, & decrees of holy fathers. MILES. What ever they ordain, or other have ordained in time passed of temporalty/ may well be law to you/ but not to us. For no man hath power to ordain statutes of things, over the which he hath no lordship. As the king of France may ordain no statutes upon the empire, neither the emperor upon the king of England. And likewise as Pryncis of the world may ordain no statutes of your spirituality, over the which they have no power: no more ye may ordain no statutes of their temporalties/ over the which ye have neither power nor authority. Wherefore it is a thing in vain/ what ever ye ordain of temporal things, over which ye have of god resceived no power. And therefore but late I lough well fast, when I hard that Poop Boniface the eight had made a new statute, that he himself should be above all secular lords/ princes, kings, and emperors, and above all kingdoms, & make law upon all things: and that him needeth nought but write/ for all things shall be his, when he hath written: and so all thing shall be yours. For to make a statute, his statute is nought else, but to will that the decree be holden and kept, and ordain and hot that it be holden. If he will have my castle, my town/ my field, my money, or any other such things: him needeth nought, but will it, and write it, and make a decree/ and hot that it be holden/ and when that is done, he hath right to all such things. Now good clerk/ thou wottest well, how worthy this jape is to be scorned. CLE. Sir knight ye speak sharply, slily, and wisely enough: all your talking and meaning is (as far as I perceive) that the pope hath no power to ordain and make statutes of your temporalties: For ye know not, that he hath lordship, power, and authority upon your temporalties. Though we would prove it by our law/ and by decrees written, ye account them for nought. For ye ween that Peter had no lordship ne power over temporalty/ but by such law written. But if thou wilt be a true christian man/ and of right believe, thou shalt not deny, but that Christ is lord of all things. To him it was said in the psalter book: Ask of me, Psal. 2. & I shall give nations, to thine heritage, and all the world about to thy possession. psal. 2. And also of him it is written, 1. Tim· 2. Apoc. 17. &. 19 the first pistill to Timothe the vi chapter/ that he is king of kings, and lord of lords. These be not ours, but gods own words: nor we wrote them not, but god sent them, and the holy ghost spoke them. And who doubteth/ whether he may ordain and make statutes, whom he knoweth to be lord of all things? MILES. I withsay not the majesty/ lordship, and might of our lord god: for he may not be withsayde on no manner wise. But if it may be showed by holy writ, that the pope is lord of all temporalties: than kings & prncis must needs be subject to the poop, as well in temporalty as spirituality. CLE. That may be showed lightly/ by the authorities that be a little rather rehearsed. The faith of holy church holdeth, that Peter the apostle was ordained Christis full vicar for himself and for his successors. And he that is full vicar, may do the same that his lord may, when he is made vicar with full power, without any withdrawing of power. Than if ye can not deny, but that Christ, that is lord of heaven and of earth/ may ordain and make statutes of your temporalties: how can ye/ for shame deny Christis vicar to have the same power? MILES. I have hard of holy and devout men, that we sh●ld distingue two divers times of Christ: one of his humility/ and an other of his power and majesty. The time of his humility was from the time that he took flesh and blood, unto his passion: the time of his power and majesty, was and is after his Resurrection, when he said: All power is give to me in heaven and in earth/ Mat. vlt. Mat. vlt. Peter was ordained Christis vicar for the state of his humility/ and not for the state of his bliss and majesty: but to follow him in doing those things, which Christ in humility did here in earth: for those things are necessary for us. Ergo Christ committed thilk power to his vicar, which he as a man mortal exercised/ and not that power, which after his glorification he received. And for to prove this by holy writ, I take witness of Christ and holy writ/ as thou dost. Lo Christ said to Pilate: My kingdom is not of this world,/ Io. 18. Also he saith/ he came not to be served, but to serve other men, Matt. 20. This witness is so manifest, that it may confound a man, resist he never so much/ and all to frusshe his neck/ be it never so stiff. And it is written Luc. 12. how one said to Christ: Master say to my brother/ that he depart heritage with me. To whom Christ answered and said: Man/ who hath ordained me judge or departer between you? Lo thou hearest openly, that Christ was not judge nor dealer over temporalties. Ergo in that state of dispensation taken on him, he neither had nor desired temporal kingdom. But when the people, that he had fed/ would have made him king/ he fled from them jon. 6. Also in Peter's commission he yaf him not the keys of the kingdom of earth/ but the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Also it is evident and plain/ that the bishops of the Hebrews were subjects to kings, and the kings deposed the bishops: but god forbid, that they should so now. And for to know/ that Peter was Christis vicar in godly kingdom of souls/ and not in temporal lordship of castles and of lands: take heed what Paul the appostelle saith writing to the Hebrews. Heb. 5. Every bishop (saith he) is take of men/ and ordained for men in things that belong to god, not to govern earthly things, but to offer gifts and sacrifices for sin. That the bishop is made ruler in those things that long to god, thou mayst perceive by the words of saint Paul writing to Timothe/ the .2. pistle, & .2. chap. where he saith: No man that travaileth in knighthood to godward, meddleth him in secular businesses. Than it is sooth, that Christ neither exercised worldly kingdom/ nor committed it to Peter. And in the acts of the apostles the .6. chapter, Peter saith: It is not rightful that we leave the word of god, & serve meat boards, that is to say/ to dispose temporal things. ¶ And all though some temporal things may be disposed by bishops: yet nevertheless it is plain and evident/ that bishops should not be occupied in governance of might and lordships of this world. Therefore sir clerk, the authorities that thou haste laid for thy party, Ask of me/ and I shall give to thee, Psal. 2. nations to thine heritage, and all the world about, to thy possession. And that he is king of kings. 1. Tim· 2. etc. This is not understand for the first estate but for the second. Apoc. 17. &. 19. In the which first estate it is plain, that Christ exercised no temporal power/ but put it clean away from him, & used only that/ that longed to the governance of our salvation: And in that manner of doing he made Peter his vicar/ whom he neither made knight nor crowned king: but ordained him to be a priest and bishop. And if ye will yet strive, that Christis vycare should have that power in temporalty, that Christ had after his resurrection in heaven, and used not here in earth/ your strife shall not turn you to worship at length. For it is evident to every faithful man, that if god should command him to give his money/ his field, or his vinyeard to any other man, without any provision or reasonable request/ and without any express studying, he ought forth with to obey. Wherefore if ye will contend/ that the pope hath the same power/ than of necessity ye must grant also/ that the pope may take from you/ and from us/ all the goods that ye and we have/ and give them all/ to which of his nephews or cousins, that he will, and tell no cause why: and also he may take away from princes and kings, principalitees and kingdoms at his own will/ and give them there as him liketh. But take heed how wrongfully that were done, and deemeth your own self, how that would mislike you/ if he did so to you. If that very reason constrain you to forsake your foolish argument, the poop also shall be constrained to give back. For it is sooth, that he, Christis vicar/ received not so great power in temporalties/ but he received only that power, that Christ in his humility daily used and taught. CLERICUS. Will ye deny sire knight/ that holy church shall not know and correct men for sins? MILES. god forbid, For he that would deny that/ shall deny penance and confession. CLERI. If ought be done unrightfully, it is sin: and he that hath to do in knowledge of sin, must know and also deem of ryghtefulle and unrightful. Therefore sins there is rightful and unrightful in businesses of temporal matters, of very consequens the pope ought to rule and dame in temporal causes. MILES. This is a forked argument, whose vanity and sklendernes must be by a like argument, overthrown. In hanging up of thieves and other misdoers/ that be dampened to the death▪ is rightful and unrightful, and also sin. Therefore because of sin, that such men do, shall the Poop dame and be domes man in cause of felony and of man's death? This is a light argument/ and therefore it is blown away with a light reason. Now sir clerk ye must show, how ye should know and dame ryghtfulle and unryghtefulle. For there is no doubt, but that rightful & unrightful in temporalty shall be deemed by laws, that men have made of temporalty. But ye moat take heed all about, what longeth to the cause, that shallbe deemed. Than it is sooth, that he that maketh the law/ hath power to know and to dame rightful and unrightful, and to expone and declare, and to tell the meaning of the law/ and to keep the law, and to govern reasonnably by the law. Now if ye will be as great plasters as he, in knowledge and deeming of temporalty/ and strive with him in knowledge and deeming of rightful and unrightful/ in what that longeth to temporalty, than care ye with an ox and ass against your holy writ. And when the prince saith, this is rightful/ the bishop saith/ this is unrightful: than is fulfilled the prophecy of Abacuc: Abac. 1. rightful doom is made/ and withsayenge is stronger, through the which the law is torn and rend/ & the rightful doom cometh not to end. For truly that is not to do rightful doom and justice in earth. Now I shall show you, after the apostelle Paul where your knowledge and doom shall begin. The prince by his laws shall dame right and wrong/ and every man shall be ready at his commandment/ as he is bound: and shall be obedient to him. Now if any man wax stubborn, and will not be obedient to the princes hests, nor the prince (whose office is to dame and judge) is not able to resist and compel him: than beginneth your knowledge and your doom. For your monitions shall refrain and chastise him/ according as saint Paul saith to Titus the .3. chap. admonish and warn them, Tit. 3. that they be subjects to princes and high powers. And also writing unto the romans the thirteen chapter he saith on this wise: Ro. 13. Every soul shall be subject to the high powers. When he saith every soul, it seemeth than, none is excepted. Also where as misdoings and sinful deeds are manifest and open/ as robbery, theft, and such like, nor there is none that can or will redress these offences: I deny not, but that ye shall and may use your power in such cases, but not of rightful or unrightful: for it falleth not for you to know and dame thereof,, nor to intermeddle therewith. But when it is openly known by sentence and doom of the law, or else by plain evidence and knowledge of the trespass▪ that needeth none other witness nor proves: than may it long to you in manner and form, as it is said before. ¶ And if ye will needs know and dame in such causes, because that wrong and sin be linked together: than there needeth nought else, but shut up the gates of princes, and speak naught of their laws and statutes, but speak of the laws of bishops all only. It doth belong to you to know and to dame in cause of matrimony and of wedlock, I pray you/ will ye therefore say, that it followeth/ that ye shall know and dame of all that longeth thereto for the knitting of the deed? Lo I go into your country for to ask heritage in my wife's name: for she is heir thereof. Ye see, that by reason of matrimony it longeth to me to require this heritage: shall I therefore plead before you for my wife's heritage, and tell my tale in this manner: I Roberte at Style ask for my wife a duchery/ in the name of dowerye, and so forth? Which ought to be pleaded before the king/ and not before the bishop. Yea I say unto you all clerks forbidding you, that you entermeddell you not of doom and knowledge of dower/ against god and righteousness. For the behest of dowry▪ is very covenant of temporalty, and shall be proved or disproved/ by proves or disproves, of the kings laws. And for so much as ye usurp and take upon you that, that belongeth unto other, it is right meet, that ye suffer as ye do. ¶ Now thus it appeareth/ that it is but a jape and a vanity/ of such manner of oning of things to feign a knitting to gathers in doom and in knowledge of causes. For to the confounding of all those reasons (that ye make) the only words are sufficient, that I afore recited to you out of the gospel of Luke, Luc. 12. where our lord jesus saith: O man who hath ordained me domesman or dealer between you? Here Christ showeth us openly, that it longed not to him to dame and deal heritage, by the power that he used in that that he was man shapen for to die. CLERI. Can ye denay/ but that the temporalties ought to obey and be serviceable to the spirituality? If ye can not, ye must needs grant/ that the temporalty must needs be subject to the spirituality: & that the spiritual power ought to rule the temporal. MILES. soothly the temporalty shall serve the spirituality in this case: they are bound to find them, that worship and serve god, all that is necessary for them. For so do all nations (as it were by way of kind) honour and minister unto them livelihood & other necessaries/ that worship god/ & minister sacraments, and such as longeth to god. For in the laws that our lord gave to Moses, the pharisees and priests were largely provided fore: but yet that law did not ordain for them any temporal kingdom or lordship. And the apostle to the Corinthees saith: 1. Cor. 9 If we have sown things spiritual among you, it is no great thing if we reap carnal? But if thou wilt wit/ what manner lordship Christ ordained for his servants/ that sow spiritual sedes: take of the words of Christ and of the apostelle Paul/ as they follow in order. For Christ to his disciples/ sent forth to preach, said: The work man is worthy his meat: Mat. 10. Luc. 10. 1. Tim. 5. and, The work man is worthy his meed. And Paul of himself and other apostles saith. 1. Cor. 9 Who travaileth in knyghtehoode upon his own cost? As who saith: 1. Cor. 9 no man. And in Moses' law it is written. Deut. 25. Thou shalt not bind the ox mouth that thressheth. Lo to whom doth Christ & his apostle Paul liken you? To workmen/ to hyredmen & oxen/ and not to kings. I pray you, be work men and hired men, lords of things? Than it seemeth/ that temporalties are granted you to help of your living/ and for charge of spiritual administration/ and not to lordship. And of the spiritual it is written in Moses' law, Deut. 15. there ye be likened to an ox, that thres/ sheath/ to the which it is enough to take his meat, though he fill all the barn with his travail. And for that ye say/ that spiritual power ruleth and governeth the temporalty / that is answered you afore by the apostle Paul/ where he saith: Every bishop is taken of men, and ordained for men in that that longeth to god/ Heb. 5. and in that the spiritual power shall rule and govern us, and not in that that longeth to the world: for it longeth not to holy church to deem in that that is outward. ¶ And if ye yet strive/ that the pope is above all other also in temporalty, ye fall into well great scorns. For if the poop (when he is made pope) should be made lord over all: than by the same skill a bishop (when he is made bishop) is made lord of all the country of his bysshoprike/ and my priest shall be lord over my castle, and be my lord. For as the power of the pope is in all, so is the power of these in that party, where they rule. Wherefore leave this foolishness/ the which is laughed and mocked at of every man, and that is, with so many reasons and auctorityes of scripture confounded. Also we have learned in the old testament, that kings ordained who should be priests: but priests did not ordain/ who should be kings. And priests were not worshipped of kings: but kings and princes were worshipped of priests and prophets, and might call them and command them to do what pleased the kings. And in the same old testament the kings did correct the priests, and undertook, and blamed them, when they erred in governance of temporalty. CLE. I marvel that ye say/ that kings undertook and blamed the bishop in governance of temporalty. MILES. Ye awake the sleeping dog, and drive me to speak otherwise than I thought before to do. CLERI. Let the hound awake and bark. MILES. For as much as ye can not be content, and patiently (to your profit) suffer the princes, I fear me, that after due and just barking, ye shall feel biting. CLERI. What have princes and kings to do with governance of our temporalty, let them take theirs/ and suffer us in peace with ours? MILES. Sir the princes must in any wise have to do therewith. I pray you, ought not we above all things/ to mind the health of our souls? ought not we to see/ that the wills of our fore fathers be fulfilled? Falleth it not to you to pray for our fore father's/ that be passed out of this life? And did not our forefathers give you our temporalties right plentifully/ to the intent/ that ye should pray for them, and spend it all together to the pleasure and honour of god? and ye do nothing lo: but ye spend away your temporalty in synfullle deeds and vanity, the which temporalty ye should dispend in work of charity, and in alms deeds to poor men and needy. Were it not nedefulle, that they that be deed should be holp/ and they that be alive saved by deeds of mercy? For the which our fore fathers have given you great and huge dominions. And when ye apply them to your own use and superfluously consume them, and contrary to their intent/ that were the givers/ and also of the resceyvers/ lash them out to an ill use: do ye not damnably hurt and hindrance, both to them that be alive/ and also to them that be deed? Ye reck not for honesty, no nor for your own law, nor for deeds of mercy and charity, but in folly and bobance, and in liking of this world, ye dispend all that was given you for an holy intent. Shall not his wages be stopped/ that will not do deeds of knighthood. He that holdeth of another, and doth not his due office and service, he shall lose and forego his fee. And for to make an end of this question, and to put you to silence, I shall show you that▪ that shall make you sorry, and glad to find the mean to set a remedy. readeth in holy writ. 2. Parali. ca 14. There it is written of king joas, that he did that that good was and pleasing to our lord all the days of joidas the priest. And of the same king we read four Regum. 12. King joas called Ioida the bishop/ and also the priests, and to them he said: why repair ye not the covering of the temple? Look therefore that ye take no more money of the people by your own ordinance/ but apply it to the instauration of the temple/ and of god's house. And thus the priests were forbidden to take any more money of the people. Wherefore thou seest/ that king joas was praised of our lord, for that he took heed/ that the offerings should be spended to god's worship/ that is to say, to the instauration of the temple/ according to the holy intent of them that gave such things. God preysethe this king joas/ for to show and leave unto us ensample, that the said king, in his so doing, did not offend/ for so moche as he did it not for any covetousness, but of goddelye zeal, not of ambition, but of devout religion. And the king/ to the intent to eschew evil suspection, he would have the bishop with him to bear witness/ as followeth. And when he saw to much money in the Treasaurye/ the kings writer and the bishop went up in to the Treasaurye, and poured out and told the money/ that was found in god's house/ and they gave it after the numbered and weight in to their hands/ that were surveyors of the masonry of god's house. Lo the good intention of the king is praised/ that took heed/ that the goods of this old church should be besylye saved, and spent to a good and a holy use. I know well it liketh not you to here these words, and yet never the less I speak not but words of holy writ. It is said to you before/ that ye have received all such lordships and riches to the help of your life, and as the wages of holy chivalry/ and to the intent to have cloth and food: with which two the apostle saith, 1. Tim. 6. he held him paid: and all the over plus beside cloth and food, ye ought to spend in deeds of mercy & pity, as on poor people that have need, and on such as be sick and diseased/ and oppressed with misery. And if ye do not so, than must we have to do therewith: for than it falleth to us to take heed of your temporalty/ that ye beguile not and deceive the quick and the deed. CLE. This king joas took not the goods and cattle to his own use/ but he bestowed them on holy churches use. But now a days ye take our goods, which ye spend not to the use of holy church, but on your busy and unruly soldiers, and on ships and engines of war. And therefore the ensample that ye bring forth, is not against us/ nor against our work and deeds: but ye would thereby colour your violence and wrong. MI. Always to your own harm ye kick against the prick of kings. It is not grievous to you, that your cousins and kinsmen take to them of holy churches goods and chattels, and sometime other persons, that be not honest, to the slander of you, and of all the people that be under you: and ye be full venomous through your own evil ensample of living. This ye suffer/ the which may be cause of god's wrath upon the king, and upon all the realm/ the which recklessly suffereth you so frowardly to work against almighty god. But to you it seemeth a grievous wrong, and in no wise to be suffered, that the king asketh meekly of you, and thanketh you for it, as for a thing graciously granted: and yet he doth not spend it to his own use/ but for your safeguard, and in the defence of holy church/ and of your goods and cattle. CLERICUS. Alas woe is me wretched man, ye tear & hale away my flesh and my skin, and that ye call safeguard. MILES. I pray you letteth be your noise and your grudging/ and hearkeneth patiently. Consider your neighbours about you, that be many in land, which wanting, wherewith to live, gape still after your goods. If the kings power failed, what rest should ye have? would not the gentle men/ such as be needy, and such as prodigally have spend away their substance, when they have consumed their own, will not they turn to yours, and waste and destroy all that ye have? Therefore the kings strength is to you in stead of a strong wall. And ye wot very well, that the kings peace is your peace: and the kings safeguard is your safeguard. For if the kings power wanted/ or else were withdrawn from you: than (as your sins asketh) they that common with you now, and they that wait upon you now, would destroy/ waste, and consume your goods, and compel you to be their thralls. And if ye would not, all that ye have were utterly lost. How moche than would ye pay for to have the kings secure his help and defence/ as ye had before? Than thus ye see and perceive manifestly/ that when ye give a little portion to the king, you buy therewith your own safeguard/ and thereby ye save to yourself/ your goods and your chattels, that should be destroyed by your enemies, and by men of strange lands, ne were the kings help and his succour. But as ye have always been unkind, for the goodness that he hath done to you: even so now ye plain and grudge, against that that is your own profit. If the king failed you, would not your enemies war upon you, and put you out of your place, and out of your land, and take from you all that ye have, and leave you poor, naked, and bare? and so stricken with terrible dread/ would ye not put yourself to flight/ and wander ye forced not whither? But and kings and princes, at their own costs, and to their great peril and danger of their lives, be holden to defend you: and you to rest under their wings, and to eat & drink with great solace and mirth, and to lie in soft and delicate beds/ and sickerly to sleep/ than it seemeth, that ye would mean, that only ye be very lords, and kings and princes be of bond condition, and unto you servants and thralls. If rest be granted to men of the church/ it is no great thing/ if the riches be reserved for us of the lay fee. This is an hard thing/ say ye, but ye will not rest, till ye be (as ye are wont) convicted and also confounded by holy scripture: against the which ye can not resist. For of joas the king (of whom we spoke before) it is written in the. 4. book of kings, the .12. chapter. and in the second book of Parali. the .24. chapter thus: Wherefore joas the king of juda took all that was hallowed/ the which things joram & Ochozias his father's/ kings of juda had hallowed, and which things he himself had offered up/ and all the silver that he could find in the treasaurye of the lord, and Palace of the king/ and sent it to Azael/ the king of Syrie, and he departed from jerusalem. Lo here thou mayst plainly see, that for to pay the people's raunsomme, he took those things out of the temple/ not withstanding he spared not the kings palace/ when he took those things out of the temple. ¶ Also in the .4. book of kings, cap. 18. it is thus red of the holy king Ezechias. The same season Ezechias braake the gates of the temple of the lord/ and took the plates of gold/ that he himself had there sticked up, and gave them to the king of Assiriens. ¶ And if thou wouldest say, that Ezechias did amiss, I answer as it is said secundo Paralipo. cap. 32. Ezechias is not blamed for any of all his works, that he did, but only for the message of the princes of Babylon. then who shall damn him/ the which holy writ preysethe in all his deeds? If he err, not understanding the soothness and the verity of holy writ/ wherefore than strive you against kings and princes? It is red secundo Machab. quinto. god chose not the people for the place/ but the place for the people. Therefore the church of lime and stone should not be spared/ when the christian people be in peril. The which thing the holy king Ezechiel and joseph understood and truly did fulfil. If your goods be holy churches goods/ and the people is a great part of holy church: shall not then holy church's goods skilfully be spended for the succour and safeguard of the people? And so it followeth/ that it longeth to the ghostlyche of holy church. And our lord saith, Matthei duodesimo. I tell you/ this is more than the temple. For it is no doubt the ghostly temple, that is mankind, is more worth than the temple that is made of lime and stone. Therefore a mild and a prudent king mote by these words know the will of all mighty god: and him needeth not to seek authority of other. Nor the temple of lime and stone/ nor the things dedicated therein/ should not be spared/ to win peace and safeguard to the people, that is in peril. Nor we should not smile (after a flattering fashion) at the superfluite of the church/ but see that the great multitude of christian people be holp and succoured in their need. And though the king dealeth graciously with you/ and goodly governeth you always/ yet ye be not ashamed to withsay him in that that he may lawfully do by the law of god almighty, and will not with your good will thereto assent. But take heed and beware by the words of Solomon: The kings wrath is the messenger of death. CLE. If those things that are once given to god, may be withdrawn & taken away again: than all vows may be made void & fordone. MI. That that I have said is not to withdraw and take away gifts, that are given to almighty god: but to turn and apply those gifts to such use, for the which they were first given. For those gifts that are given to god/ the very same gifts are dedicated to holy and charitable uses. And what thing can be more holy than the salvation of christian people? And what is more precious unto our lord/ than to defend and safely keep the christian people from the invasion of their enemies, thieves & murderers/ & to buy peace to the true and faithful subjects? Therefore when the goods of the church be spent on this wise/ than are they bestowed to such use/ for the which they were first dedicated and given. CLERI. If ye take you to holy writ, why do ye withsay and break our privileges and freedoms: which liberties we have by holy writ? For our lord Matt. 17. said unto Peter: How seemeth it unto the Simon, The kings of the earth, of whom take they tribute/ of their own sons, or else of other? of other said Peter. jesus said to him: Than are the sons free. But lest we offend them, go unto the see/ and cast in a fish hook/ and the first fish that cometh up/ open his mouth/ and thou shalt find a stater, take that, and give it for me and for the. Ye see sir knight that the clergy, bond to the service of god, is free in all points. MI. If ye well consider, and understand the gospel aright/ ye may see/ that the tribute or dram was demanded only of Christ: And only for Christ this answer seemeth to be given: For he is the very son of god, the son of the great mighty king. And as the kings son is greater than the bishop: so is god's son greater than the emperor. And so that answer was given for Christ, and not for you. Never the less because they, that chieffely serve the king in his presence, should not be put to common and grievous charges/ so we grant, that clerks in their own persons be free/ but not they, that lead their lives as lewd men, and not as clerks to the worship/ but to the guile and fraud of our lord/ as it is all day seen. But clerks that follow Christ, as priests that serve at the altar, and that are fully given and occupied in the service of god, we grant, that those be free, I say not clearly by the gospel: but by cause in their so doing it discordethe not from the gospel/ that freedom is given them by privileges of princes. For sith the beginning of the church Paul ad Ro. 13. saith: Every soul be subject to the higher powers/ not only (saith he after) for wrath/ but also for conscience. And after following he saith, yield and pay to all men that is due to them: to whom tribute is due/ pay tribute: to whom custom is due, pay custom. Than ye see/ that every soul must be subject, bear tribute, and pay custom. But as I have said/ ye be now free in your own person, by privileges of princes: but shall your fields have now the same freedom? If holy church buy a field, that is able to be tilled: shall he that hath thereof every year rend and tribute lose his rent and tribute? CLE. Our communication now is not of rent and tribute, but of exactions. MI. Like as I have of some field certain rent: so the emperor of his empire/ and the king of his kingdom, may at his own will raise skilful tribute for the defence of the common wealth. It is granted by clear reason/ that the common wealth shall be defended at the costs of the commonty: and what so ever part thereof enjoyeth this defence/ it is most agreenge with right/ that he set to his shoulder, and help to bear the burden. Than if possessions be as rightfully subject to the common charge/ as to the years rend, he shall be under charge/ who so ever oweth them, specially if it needeth for the defence of the common wealth: for they need the common defence, as all other need. If ye say nay, because of prescription and custom, that ye have of so long time used that liberty: We answer you/ In as moche longer/ and of old continuance that your freedom and liberty is/ by the goodness and liberal benignity of kings and princes, so much the sooner ye should be prompt and ready with heart and mind to pay your part, and help forward, where need required. For holy writ fordoth this prescription/ that ye allege. For from Solomon to joas/ and from joas to ezechiel it is red of no such doing, as ezechiel did in time of need. Also many cities, that were by privileges and custom free from paying of exactions: have both patiently paid/ and also do pay with good will at this day, at their princes pleasure/ for the defence of the realm/ of the commonalty, or of persons. If god for unkindness/ calleth again forgiveness of sin: beware lest for your rebellion/ that ye deserve no less, but also to be further charged, and at the last to be stripped from all your goods and power. CLE. Shall the king bereave and take away from us, the graces granted us by kings, that were his predecessors and by other noble princes? And may he fordo the privileges of blessed fathers granted to holy church? MI. I deny not it is truth/ great and large privileges be to you granted by kings and princes. Therefore ye ought to understand and know, that what so ever the governors of the common wealth do/ they intended it all together for the profit of the common weal/ having regard specially thereunto according to this rule: They dispose all things in such wise, that they prefer the common wealth before their own: which in a prince is a thing most glorious, whereof David is example two Regum. Therefore it is known by witness clear & true, and eke by very reason, that they grant nothing by their writing / that should afterward be harm and damage to the common weal. But if any privilege/ that is granted, be found and known hurtful/ and grievous to the common weal, it may be repelled and fordone in time of need. Therefore it is not to be doubted, but that the high princes for the necessary business of the realm, may alter and change (as reason and time requireth) the graces and privileges to you granted, and by the laws established. As we read of the most wise king Solomon, in the pain of theft, changed some what of god's law. CLERI. The emperors and not the kings have established though things. Therefore now sir knight/ the emperors must guide the reins of the laws. MI. This answer is blasphemous: And either (as it seemeth) ye are ignorant of the beginning of a kingdom, or else (which is most likely) ye envy the high estate of the realm. If ye well behold the acts of great Charlemagne, or listed to read the ancient approved histories: ye shall find, that the realm of France is but a portion of the empire/ by a just division separated from it/ and was by the space of .500. years equal thereto both in dignity and authority. Therefore what so ever privilege of dignity the empire holdeth in one part/ the same holdeth the realm of France in an other. For when by brethren the realm of France was divided from the other part of the empire: what so ever laws/ power, or dignity the empire obtained and exercised over and upon the said part thus divided, the very self power fell to the french king. And therefore like as all things contained within the bounds of the empire, is well known to be subject to the empire: so likewise all things within the bounds of the realm/ be subject to the realm. And like as the emperor may make laws over all his empire, and to them add more or diminish, as he thinketh good: so may the king of France, either utterly repel the emperors laws, or change which of them him list: or else clean exiling and fordoing these laws/ may at his pleasure ordain and make new. For when need should require (as it oft chanceth) to enact and ordain a statute, if the king that is the chief, could not do it: than there is none other that can: for there is none above him. And therefore sir clerk refrain your tongue, and acknowledge the king by his royal power to be above your laws, customs/ privileges/ and liberties: and that he may by the advise of his nobuls add or diminish/ what so ever he think according with equity and reason: and therefore what so ever he changeth in those days for the wealth of the realm, take it well in worth and patiently suffer it. For so Paul teacheth you writing to the Romans the xiii. chapter, where he saith: Who that resisteth the high power/ resisteth the ordinance of god. And again in the end of the pistle to the Hebrews he saith: Obey ye to your sovereigns/ and humble yourself to them. Also king David .1. Reg. 21. under Abiathar the prince of the priests/ in time of need did not alonely eat the bread called panes propositionis, (whereof to eat it was not leeful for any man/ except the priests) but also gave the same bread to eat/ to them that were with him. And it is written Mark the two chap. The holy day is made for man, and not man for the holy day. And so the lord is the son of man, and also is lord of the holy day. It is written in the first book of Parali. the 39 chap. In thy hand is the greatness and empire of all. It saith farther there: They honoured god, and than the king. And it saith there. They secondly anointed Solomon the son of king David/ they anointed him in our lord to be their prince, and Sadoch to be their bishop. And .2. Parali. 23. it saith: Nor none other should enter in to the house of our lord but priests, and such of the deacons as ministered, they all only should enter in, because they be hallowed: and all the residue of the common people should keep the watch of our lord. The deacons environed the king about, every man having his armour. And if any other entered in to the temple of the lord he was slain. They should attend upon the king both when he entered in/ and when he went out. Also joada the bishop anointed him/ and his children prayed for him and said. God save the king. CLE. It draweth fast toward night: to morrow morning I will answer you to every thing. FINIS. ¶ Imprinted at London in Fleetstreet, in the house of Thomas Berthelet/ near to the cundite at the sign of Lucrece. CUM PRIVILEGIO.