A COMMON APOLOGY OF THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND: Against the unjust Challenges of the over-iust Sect, commonly called Brownists. Wherein the grounds and Defences, of the Separation are largely discussed: OCCASIONED, BY A Late Pamphlet published under the name, Of an Answer to a Censorious Epistle, Which the Reader shall find in the Margin. By I. H.  
LONDON Printed for Samuel Macham, and are to be sold at his Shop in Paul's Churchyard, at the Sign of the Bullhead. 1610.   

TO OUR GRACIOUS AND BLESsed Mother, the Church of ENGLAND. THE MEANEST OF HER Children Dedicates this her Apology, and wisheth all Peace and Happiness.  
NO less than a year and a half is passed (Reverend, Dear, and holy Mother) since I wrote a loving monitory letter to two of thine unworthy Sons; which (I heard) were fled from thee in person, in affection, and somewhat in opinion: Supposing them yet thine in the main substance, though in some circumstances their own. Since which, one of them hath washed of thy Font-water as unclean, and hath written desperately both against thee, and his own fellows: From the other, I received (not two months since) a stomakful Pamphlet; besides the private injuries to the monitor, casting upon thine honourable name blasphemos imputations of Apostasy, Antichristianisme, whoredom, Rebellion: Mine own wrongs I could have contemned in silence, 
Meam iniuriam patientertuli impietatem contra Sponsam Christi ferre non potui. Higher ad Vigilant.  but, For Sions sake, I cannot hold my peace: If I remember not thee, O jerusalem, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth. It were a shame, and sin for me, that myzeale should be less hot for thine innocency, then theirs to thy false disgrace. How have I hastened therefore to let the world see thy sincere truth, and their perverse slanders. Unto thy sacred name then (whereto I have in all piety devoted myself) I humbly present this my speedy and dutiful labour: whereby I hope thy weak Sons may be confirmed, the strong encouraged, the rebellious shamed: And if any shall still obstinately accurse thee, I refer their revenge unto thy Glorious Head, who hath espoused thee to himself, in truth and righteousness: Let him whose thou art, right thee: In the mean time, we thy true sons, shall not only defend, but magnify thee: Thou mayest be black, but thou art comely: the Daughters have seen thee, and counted thee blessed; even the Queen, and the Concubines, and they have praised thee: thou art thy Welbelovedst, and his desire is towards thee: So let it be, and so let thine be towards him for ever; and mine towards you both, who am the least of all thy little ones,  
IOS. HALL..   
A COMMON Apology against the Brownists.  

SECTION. I.  
The entrance into the work.  
IF Truth and peace (Zacharyes two companions) had met in our love, 
Zach. 8. 19  this Controversy had never been; the severing of these two hath caused this separation; for while some unquiet minds have sought Truth without Peace, they have at once lost Truth, Peace, Love, us and themselves. God knows how unwillingly I put my hand to this unkind quarrel: Nothing so much abates the courage of a Christian, as to call his brother adversary: 
Matth. 18. 7.  We must do it; woe to the men by whom this offence cometh: Yet by how much the insultation of a brotherly enemy is more intolerable, and the grief of our blessed mother greater, for the wrong of her own; So much more cause I see to break this silence: If they will have the last words, 
Otho Frising. ex Philon. Vr. Chaldaeorum Ruffian. Eccl●s. hist. l. 2. c. 26.  they may not have all. For our carriage to them: They say, when Fire the God of the Chaldees had devoured all the other wooden Deities, that Canopis set upon him a Cauldron full of water, whose bottom was devised with holes stopped with wax, which no sooner felt the flame, but gave way to the quenching of that furious Idol. If the fire of inordinate zeal, conceit, contention have consumed all other parts in the separation, and cast forth (more then Nebuchadnezers furnace) from their Amsterdam hither; 
Dan. 3.  it were well if the waters of our moderation and reason could vanquish, yea abate it: This little Hin of mine shall be spent that way: we may try and wish, but not hope it: The spirits of these men are too-well known, 
Vid. Treatis of certain godly Minist. ag. Barr.  to admit any expectation of yeeldance: since yet, both for prevention and necessary defence this task must be undertaken, I crave nothing of my Reader but patience and justice: of God, victory to the truth: as for favour, I wish no more than an enemy would give against himself: With this confidence I enter into these lists, and turn my pen to an Adversary, GOD knows, whether more proud or weak.   

SECTION. II.  
The Answerers' Preamble.  
IT is a hard thing even for those which would seem sober minded men in cases of controversy, 
1. Retorted. S●p.  to use soberly the frowns and disadvantages of causes and times: 
It is a hard thing even for sober minded men in cases of controversy, to use soberly the advantages of the times: upon which whilst men are mounted on high, they use to behold such as they oppose too overly, and not without contempt; and so are oft times emboldened to roll upon them as from aloft very weak and weightless discourses, thinking any sleight and slender opposition sufficient to oppress those underlings, whom they have (as they suppose) at so great an advantage. Upon this very presumption it cometh to pass, that this Author undertaketh thus solemnly and severely to censure a cause, whereof (as appear in the sequel of the discourse) he is utterly ignorant: which had he been but half so careful to have understood, as he hath been forward to censure, he would either have been (I doubt not) more equal towards it, or more weighty against it.  whereby whiles men are dejected and trodden down, they use to behold their opposites mounted on high, too repiningly, and not without desperate envy: & so are oftentimes moved, to shoot up at them as from below, the bitter arrows of spiteful and splenish discourses, thinking any hateful opposition sufficiently charitable, to oppugn those adversaries, which have them (as they feel) at so great an advantage: upon this impotent maliciousness, it cometh to pass that this aunswerer undertaketh thus severely and peremptorily, to censure that charitable censure of ignorance, which (as shall appear in the sequel) he either simply, or willingly understood not: and to brand a dear Church of Christ with Apostasy, Rebellion, Antichristianisme: What can be more easy then to return accusations?  

* 2. Confuted.  Your Preamble (with a grave bitterness) charges me with 1. Presumption upon advantages, 2. Weak and weightless discourse, 3. Ignorance of the cause censured: It had been madness in me to write, if I had not presumed upon advantages, but of the cause, of the truth, not of the times: Though (blessed be God) the times favour the truth, and us: if you scorn them and their favours, complain not to be an underling: Think that the times are wiser, then to bestow their favours upon wilful adversaries; but in spite of times, you are not more under us in estate, then in conceit above us: so we say the Sun is under a cloud, we know it is above it. 
* Hier. Marco. presbyt. De cavernis cellularum damnamus orbem; in sacco & cinere volutati de Episcopis sententiam ferimus: Quid facit sub tunica paenitentis regius animus?  Would God overlinesse and contempt were not yours, even to them which are mounted highest upon best desert; 
Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9 Haec sunt initia haereticorum, ut sibi placean:, ut praepositum superbo tumore contemnant. Harison once theirs, in Psal. 122. of Brown. Antichristian pride and bitterness. Bredw. pref. M Brinsly his pref. to the 2. part of the Watch. Optat. Mil. de Donat. Collegae non eritis, si●o litis, fratres estis etc.  and now you that have not learned sobriety in just disadvantages, tax us, not to use soberly the advantages of time: there was no gall in my pen, no insultation, I wrote to you as brethren, and wished you companions: there was more danger of flattery in my stile, than bitterness: wherein used I not my advantages soberly? Not in that I said too much, but not enough; Not in that I was too sharp, but not weighty enough; My opposition was not too vehement, but too sleight and slender: So, strong Champions blame their adversary, for striking too easily: you might have forborn this fault, it was my favour that I did not my worst: you are worthy of more weight, that complain of ease. The discourse that I rolled down upon you, was weak and weightless; you shall well find this was my lenity, 
Disclaimed by themselves. Answer against Broughton page. 21.  not my impotence. The fault hereof is partly in your expectation, not in my letter: I meant but a short Epistle, you looked belike for a volume, or nothing; I meant only a general monition; you looked for a solid prosecution of particulars: It is not for you to give tasks to others pens. By what Law must we write, nothing but large Scholastical Discourses? Such Tomes as yours: May we not touch your sore unless we will lance, and search it? I was not enough your enemy; forgive me this error, and you shall smart more: But not only my omissions were of ignorance, but my censures, though severe and solemn: An easy imputation from so great a Controller: I pardon you, and take this as the common lot of enemies. I never yet could see any Scribbler so unlearned, as that he durst not charge his opposite with ignorance; 
Separate. schism. M. Giff. an ignorant Priest. Barr. p. 64. Confer. of D. And. & M. Huchius. with Barrow.  If Dr. Whitaker, M. Perkins, M. Gyfford, and that Oracle of our present times, Dr. Andrew's, went away content with this livery from yours; how can I repine? If I have censured what cause I knew not, let me be censured for more than ignorance, impudency: but if you know not what I censured (let all my trust lie on this issue) take both ignorance, boldness, and malice to yourself: Is your cause so mystical▪ that you can fear any man's ignorance? What Cobbler or Spinster hath not heard of the main holds of Brownisme? Am I only a stranger in Jerusalem? If I know not all your opinions, pardon me: Your own have not received this illumination; 
M. Spr. 3. 〈◊〉. siderat.  I speak boldly, not yourself; Every day brings new conceits, and not one day teaches, but corrects another, 
Iren. l. 1. Per singulos. dies nowm aliquod adsectant. etc.  you must be more constant to yourselves, ere you can upbraid ignorance or avoid it: But whether I knew your prime fancies, appears sufficiently by a particular discourse, which above a year since was in the hands of some of your Clients, and I wonder if not in yours: Shortly; am I ignorant? If I were obstinate too, you might hope (with the next gale) for me, your more equal adversary, at Amsterdam. As I am; my want of care and skill, shall (I hope) loose nothing of the truth by you, nor suffer any of your foul aspersions upon the face of God's Church and ours.  
But whiles we strive; who shall be our judge? The Christian Readers: who are those? Presume not, ye more zealous and forward Country men, that you are admitted to this Bench: so far are we mere English, from being allowed judges of them; that they have already judged us to be no 
* Bar. Confer. with Hutchins. fo. 1. Brown estate of true Christians Defence of true Christians against the Doct. of Oxford. johnson (against jacob.) passim. Barr. against Gyfford.  Christians: We are Goats and Swine, no Sheep of God: since then none but your Parlour in the West, and Amsterdam, must be our judges, who (I beseech you) shall be our adversaries? God be judge betwixt you and us, and correct this your unchristian uncharitableness. 
Sepa. As this Epistle is come to mine hands, so I wish the answer of it may come to the hands of him that occasioned it: Entreating the Christian Reader, in the name of the Lord, unpartially to behold without either prejudice of cause, or respect of person, what is written on both sides, and so from the Court of a sound conscience to give just judgement.    

SECTION. III▪  
The parties written to, and their Crime.  
I Wrote not to you alone: 
To M. Smith and M. Rob. Ringleaders of the late separation at Amsterd.  what is become of your partner, yea, your guide? Woe is me, he hath renounced our Christendom with our Church: and hath washed of his former water, with new: and now condemns you all, for not separating further, no less than we condemn you for separating so far. As if you could not be enough out of Babylon, unless you be out of yourselves. 
Charact. of the Beast, written by M. Smith. Pref. Be it known therefore to all the separation, that we account them in respect of their constitution to be as very an Harlot, as either her Mother the Church of England, or her Grandmother Rome is etc. Iterato Baptizatus scienter, it erato Dominum crucifigit. De consecr. dist. 4. Qui vis etc.  Alas miserable countrymen, whither run you? Religion hath but his height, beyond which is error and madness: He tells you true, your station is unsafe, either you must forward to him, or back to us.  

* The crime of separation, how great.  I objected separation to you: yet not so extreme as your answer bewrays: a late separation, not the first; my charity hoped you less ill, than you will needs deserve: you grant it odious, because it casts imputation of evil upon the forsaken: Of evil? Yea of the worst, an estate incurable and desperate. He is an ill Physician that will leave his patient upon every distemper, his departure argues the disease helpless; were we but faulty, as your Landlord Churches, your own Rules would not abide your flight: Hence the Church of England justly matches Separatists with the vilest persons: GOD himself doth so: who are more vile than Patrons of evil? 
Sep.  yet no greater woe, is to them that speak good of evil, 
The crime here objected is separation, a thing very odious in the eyes of all them from whom it is made: as evermore casting upon them the imputation of evil, whereof all men are impatient: And hence it cometh to pass● that the Church of England can better brook the vilest persons continuing communion with it, than any whomsoever separating from it, though upon never so▪ just and well grounded reasons. Vid. johnson Preface to his Inquirie. Esay. 5. 20.  than those that speak evil of good: So, wise Generals punish mutinous persons, worse than Robbers or Adulterers: 
M. Penry in his Disc. of this subject.  So Corah and his company (a Story cunningly turned upon us by your Martyr) for their opposition to Moses were more fearfully plagued then the Idolatrous Israelites: 
Num. 16 31. exod. 32. 30.  These sins are more directly against common society, the other more personal: and if both have like iniquity: yet the former have both more offence and more danger: And if not so, yet who cannot rather brook a lewd servant, than an undutiful son, though pretending fair colours for his disobedience? At least, you think the Church of England thinks herself God's Church, as well as your Saints of Amsterdam: You that so accurse Apostasy in others, could ye expect she should brook it in you?  
But your reasons are just and well grounded: every way of a man is right in his own eyes: Said we not well, 
Prou. 21. 2.  that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a Devil, say the jews? What Schism ever did not think well of itself? For us: we call heaven and earth to record, your cause hath no more justice than yourselves have charity.   

SECTION. four  
The kinds of separation, and which is just.  
YEt there is a commendable and happy separation, 
Sepa. And yet separation from the world, and so from the men of the world, and so from the Prince of the world that reigneth in them, and so from whatsoever is contrary to God, is the first step to our communion with God, and Angels, and good men, as the first step to a Ladder, is to leave the earth.  from the world, from the Prince, and men of the world, and whatsoever is contrary to God: who doubts it? 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  There were no heaven for us without this, no Church; which hath her name given by her father and husband of calling out from other. Out of the Egypt of the world doth God call his sons: But this separation is into the visible Church from the world, not (as yours) out of the Church, because of some particular mixtures with the world: or (if you had rather take it of profession) out of the world of Pagans and Infidels, into the visible Church, not out of the world of true (though faulty) Christians into a purer Church. That I may here at once for all give light to this point of separation: we find in Scripture a separation either to good, or from evil: To good, 
Num. 18. 14:  so the Levites were separated from among the children of Israel to bear the Ark, 
Num. 16. 9  and to minister: 
Deut. 10. 1.  so the first borne, 
Exod. 13. 12.  first fruits, and Cities of refuge: 
Leuit. 15. 21.  So Paul was (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) separated, which some would have allude to his Pharisaism, 
Deut. 4. 41.  but hath plain reference to Gods own words (Act. 13. 2.) separate me Barnabas and Saul: 
Rom. 1. 1.  Though this is rather a destination to some worthy purpose, 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  than a properly called separation.  
From evil, whither sin or sinners: From sin, so every soul must eschew evil, whether of doctrine or manners, and disclaim all fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, whither in himself or others. 
1. Thess. ult. ad fin. jere. 15. 19 Vide Tremel▪ & jun.  So S. Paul charges us to hold that which is good, and abstain from all appearance of evil: so jeremy is charged to separate the precious (doctrine or practice) from the vile. From sinners, not only practised by God himself (to omit his eternal and secret Decree whereby the elect are separated from the Reprobate) both in his gracious vocation, sequestering them from nature and sin, as also in his execution of judgement, whether particular, as of the Israelites from the Tabernacles of Corah, or Universal, 
Num. 16.  and final, of the Sheep from the Goats; But also enjoined from God to men, 
Mat. 15. ad fin. 2. Chro. 19 2. 1. Cor. 6. ad fin. Nulla cum malis Conuivia vel colloquia misceantur, simusque ab iis tam separati, quam sunt illi ab Ecclesia Dei profugi. Cypr. l. 1. Epist. ad Cornel. 2.  in respect either of our affection, or of our yoke, and familiar society, whereof Saint Paul: Be not unequally yoked with Infidels, Come out from among them, and separate yourselves. In all this we agree: In the latitude of this last only we differ: I find you call for a double separation, A first separation in the gathering of the Church: A second, in the managing of it: The first at our entrance into the Church, the second in our continuance: the first of the Church, from Pagans & Worldlings, by an initiatory profession: The second of lewd men from the Church by just censures: You speak confusedly of your own separation, one while of both, another while of either single. For the first, either confess it done by our Baptism, or else you shall be forced to hold we must rebaptise: 
Char act. of Beast praef.  But of this Constitu●ine separation anon. For the second, of sinners, whether in judgement or life, some are more gross, heinous, incorrigible: others less notorious, and more tractable: those other must be separated by just censures: not these: Which censures if they be neglected, the Church is foul and (in your Pastor's word) faulty, and therefore calls for our tears, 
john's. Inquir.  not for our flight. Now of Churches faulty and corrupted, some race the foundation, others, on the true foundation build Timber, hay, Stubble: From those we must separate, from these we may not. Peter's is eternal, 
joh. 6. 68  Whither shall we go from thee, thou hast the words of eternal life: where these words are found, woe be to us if we be not found. Amongst many good separations then, yours cannot be separated from evil, for that we should so far separate from the evil, that therefore we should separate from God's children in the communion of the holy things of God, that for some (after your worst done) not fundamental corruptions, we should separate from that Church, in whose womb we were conceived, and from betwixt whose knees we fell to God: 
H. Cl. Epistle before Treatis of sin ag. Holy Gh.  in a word (as one of yours once said) to separate not only from visible evil, but from visible good, as all Antichristian: who but yours can think less than absurd and impious? Grant we should be clean separated from the world, yet if we be not, must you be separated from us? 
Neque propter paleam relinquim are am Domini, neque propter pisces malos rumpimus retia Domini. August. Ep. 48.  Do but stay till God have separated us from himself: will the wise husbandman cast away his Corne-heape for the chaff and dust? Shall the Fisher cast away a good draft because his drag-net hath weeds? Doth God separate from the faithful soul, because it hath some corruptions, her Inmates, though not her commanders? Certainly, if you could thoroughly separate the world from you, you would never thus separate yourselves from us: Begin at home, separate all self-love, and self-will, and uncharitableness from your heart, 
Answ. Counterpoison p. 2.  and you cannot but join with that Church, from which you have separated: Your Doctor would persuade us you separate from nothing but our corruptions: you are honester, and grant it from our Church: it were happy for you, if he lied not: who in the next page confutes himself, showing that you separate from us, 
Counter p. p. 7 & 8. etc.  as Christ from the Samaritans, namely from the Church, not the corruptions only; and not as he did from the jews, namely from their corruptions, not from their Church: His memory saves our labour, and mars his Discourse.   

SECTION. V.  
The antiquity and examples of separation.  
YEt if not equity, it were well you could plead age: This your separation in the nature and causes of it (you say) is no less ancient than the first institution of enmity betwixt the two seeds, you might have gone a little higher, and have said, than our first parents running from God in the Garden, 
Sep. The separation we have made in respect of our knowledge, and obedience, is indeed late, and new yet is it in the nature and causes thereof as ancient as the Gospel, which was first founded in the enmity which God himself put betwixt the seed of the woman, and the seed of the serpent, Gen. 3, 15  or their separation from GOD by their sin: But we take your time, and easily believe that this your late separation was founded upon that ancient enmity of the seed of the serpent, 
●useb: h●st Eccl:  with the woman's. That subtle Devil when he saw the Church breath from the persecutions of Tyrants, vexed her no less with her own divisions: seeking that by fraud, which by violence he could not effect. Hence all the fearful Schisms of the Church, whereof yours is part. This enmity hath not only been successively contiwed, but also too visibly manifested by the actual (but wilful) separation of heretics and Sectaries from the Church in all ages: But I mistake you, yours is as ancient as the Gospel: What? that evangelium aeternum of the Friars? 
Hen: Steph. Ap●l. Herod. Fo● A●t & monum. H. N. his book Gal. 1. 6. Eph. 6. 17. Colos. 1 5. 1. Tin. 1. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  whose name they accursedly borrowed from Revel. 14. 6. Or that evangelium regni of the Familists? Or that evangelium aliud, whereof Saint Paul taxeth his Galatians? None of all these, you say; but as that Gospel of Peace, of Truth, of Glory; so ancient, and never known till Bolton, Barrow, and Browne? Could it escape all the holy Prophets, Apostles, Doctors of the old, middle, and later world, and light only upon these your three Patriarches? Perhaps Novatus or Donatus (those Saints) with their Schools had some little glimpse of it; but this perfection of knowledge is but late and new: So, many rich mines have lain long unknown, and great parts of the world have been discovered by late Venturers. If this course have come late to your knowledge and obedience, not so to others: For lo, it was practised successively in the constitution and collection of all true Churches, 
Sep. Which enmity hath not only been successively continued, but also visibly manifested by the actual separation of all true Churches, from the world in their collection and constitution, before the law, under the law, and under the Gospel, Gen. 4: 13, 14, 16 & 6. 1, 2, & 7: 1, 7. with 1 Pet: 3, 20, 21 & 12. 2 I●● 20, 24, 26 Neh: 9, 2 Ioh: 17, 14, 16, Act. 2, 40, & 19, 9, 1: Cor 6, 17:  through all times, before the law, under the law, after it: We have acknowledged many separations: but as soon shall you find the time passed in the present, as your late separation, in the ancient and approved You quote Scriptures, though (to your praise) more dainty indeed then your fellows. 
Iren. de Valentin. l. 1.  Who cannot do so? 
Ianumerabil● multitudin●m scripturarum quas ipsi sin●erunt afferunt ad stuporem insensatorum.  Who hath not? Even Satan himself cities the word against him which was the word of his Father. Let us not number, but weigh your texts: The rather, for that I find these as your Master-proofes, 
Vid. Preface to Master Jacob's and johnsons Confer. & Barr. pass.  set as Challengers in every of your defences: In Gen. 4. 13. Cain a bloody Fratricide is excommunicated: In Gen. 6. 1. 2. The sons of God married the daughters of men. In Gen. 7. 1. & 7. Noah is approved as righteous, and enters the Ark: In 1. Pet. 3. 20, 21. The rest in Noah's time were disobedient, and perished: What of all this? Alas, what mockage is this of the Reader, and Scriptures: Surely, you even join Scriptures, as you separate yourselves: This is right as your Pastor, to prove all members of the visible Church, 
Descript, of true visib. Ch:  elect and precious stones, cities 1. K. 7. 9 where is speech only of Salomon's house in the Forest of Lebanon, his Porch for his Throne, his Hall, his Palace for Pharachs daughter, and when he comes to describe the office of his imaginary doctor thwacks fourteen Scriptures into the margin, 
Nihil autem ●irum fi & ex ipsius instrumento a●tentur argumenta, cum oporteat haereses esse, quae esse non possent si non & perperam scripturae intelligi possent. Tertull. de resur.  whereof not any one hath any just colour of inference to his purpose: and in his discourse of the power of the Church (that he might seem to honour his margin with show of texts) hath repeated six places twice over in the space of six lines. 
Ibid:  For these of yours: you might object the first to the Cainites not to us: 
So Barrow terms Mast. Gyff. Re●ut. p. 102.  Cain was cast out worthily. Do we either deny, or utterly forbear this censure? Take heed you follow him not in your voluntary exile to the land of Nod. The second you might object to those apparel Christians that match with Turks and Pagans. There are sons of God, that is, members of the visible Church, and daughters of men, which are without the bounds, mere Infidels; it is sin for those sons to yoke themselves with those daughters. What is this to us? Noah was righteous, 
Si Christianus judaicae praevaricanti carnaliter coniungatur, a commumone Ecclesiaesegregetur.  the multitude disobedient: Who denies it? yet Noah separated not from that corrupted Church till the flood separated him from the earth, but continued an ancient Preacher of righteousness, even to that perverse and rebellious generation. But it sufficeth you that Cain and the Giants were separated from the rest: 
Dist. 28. q. 1 Caue. & cap. si quis judaicae, etc. 1. Pet. 3. 19 2. Pet. 2. 5.  We yield it: what will follow hence save only that notorious malefactors must be cast out, and professed Heathen not let into the Church? We hold, and wish no less: your places evince no more. These, before the law: In Leuit. 20. 24. 26. God chose out Israel from other people: This was God's act, not theirs: a sequestering of his Israelites from the Gentiles, not of Israel from itself: yours is your own, and from men, in all main points, of your own profession: But therefore Israel must be holy: If any man deny holiness to be required of every Christian, let him feel your Maranatha. In Nehem. 9 2. The Israelites separated themselves from the strangers, which were Infidels: whether in their marriage, or devotion: Neither God's service, nor an Israelites bed was for Heathens. This was not the constituting of a new Church, but reforming of the old: If therefore you can parallel us with Pagans, and yourselves will be Jews, this place fits you. Lastly, what if there be an hatred betwixt the world & Christ's true Disciples, joh. 17. 14. 16? what if Peter charged his auditors to save themselves from the errors and practice of that froward generation, whose hands were yet freshly imbrued with the blood of Christ, Act. 2. 40.? What if the same which Peter taught, Paul practised, in separating his followers from hearing some obstinate and blasphemous jews, Act. 19 9? What if the Church of Corinth, were Saints by calling, 1. Cor. 1. 2? and therefore must be separated from the yoke of Infidels, 2. Cor. 6. 17? Are these your patterns? Are these fit matches for your brethren, baptised in the same water and name, professing every point of the same true faith, using (for substance) the same worship with you? He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother is in darkness, 1. joh. 2. 9   

SECTION. VI  
What separation is to be made by Churches in their planting, or restoration.  
BUT all these examples perhaps are not so much to warrant what you have done, as to condemn the Church of England for what she hath not done: for such a separation she neither hath made nor doth make, 
Sep. Which separation the Church of England neither hath made, nor doth make, but stands actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdom, without separation: for which cause amongst others, we have chosen by the grace of God, rather to separate ourselves to the Lord from it, then with it from him, in the visible constitution of it.  but stands actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdom without separation. Lo here the main ground of this Schism, which your Proto-Martyr Barrow hammers upon in every page; 
In his Preface to the Reader, and in his causes of separ defended p. 4 Eiusdem p. 10 Resutat. of M. Gyff. p 22. & 2. Transgress. p 51, 52. & 55. 66 & 70. 85. & 86. etc.  an ill constitution: Thus he comments upon your words: For where such profane confuse multitudes without any exception, separation, or choice were all of them from public idolatry, at one instant received or rather compelled to be members of the Church, in some parish or other, where they inhabited, without any due calling to the faith by the preaching of the Gospel going before, or orderly joining together in the faith, there being no voluntary or particular confession of their own faith and duties made, or required of any, and lastly no holy walking in the faith amongst them: who can say that these Churches consisting of this people were ever rightly gathered or built, according to the rule of Christ's Testament. In his words and yours I find both a mis-collection, and a wrong charge. For the former: the want of noting one poor distinction breeds all this confusion of doctrine, and separation of men: for there is one case of a new Church to be called from Heathenism to Christianity, another of a former Church to be reform from errors, to more sincere Christianity; In the first of these is required indeed a solemn initiation by Baptism, and before that, a voluntary and particular confession of faith, and therefore a clear separation, and exception of the Christian, from the Infidel: In the latter neither is new Baptism lawful (though some of you belike of old were in hand with a rebaptisation: 
Inconstanc● of Brown p. ●o. Inquiry into M. White, confessed by Fr. johnson p. 63.  which not then speeding, succeed now to your shame) nor a new voluntary and particular confession of Faith besides that in Baptism (though very commendable) will  
ever be proved simply necessary to the being of a Church; so long as the erring parties do actually renounce their doctrines, and in open profession embrace the truth; and (as generally in the public confession) so particularly upon good occasion give just testimonies of their repentance: This is our case, we did not make a new Church, but mended an old: your Clifton is driven to this hold by necessity of argument; 
Passag. 'twixt Clifton and Smith: And concerning the constitution of the Churches, etc. But the constituting of Churches now after the defection of Antichrist may more properly be called a repairing then a constituting, etc. p. 60.  Otherwise he sees there is no avoiding of Anabaptisme: Mended, saith your Doctor, and yet admitted the miscelline rabble of the profane? Say now that such separation were not made: Let some few be holy, and the more part profane: Shall the lewdness of some disannul God's covenant with others? This is your mercy; Gods is more: who still held Israel for his, when but few held his pure service: 
psal. 106.  Let that divine Psalmist teach you how full the Tents of Israel were of mutinous rebels in the desert; yet the pillar by day & night forsook them not; and Moses was so far from rejecting them; that he would not endure God should reject them to his own advantage: Look into the black censures, and bitter complaints of all the Prophets, & wonder that they separated not: Look into the increased mass of corruptions in that declined Church: whereof the blessed eyes of our Saviour were witnesses, and marvel at his silent and sociable incuriousnesse: 
Matth. 23.  yea his charge of not separating; ye know not of what spirit you are: Now you fly to constitution, as if notorious evils were more to tolerable in the continuance, then in the collection of assembles: Sar di had but a few names that had not defiled their garments; 
Revel: 34.  God praises these, bids them not separate from the rest; Thyatir● suffers a false Prophetess? the rest that have not this learning, 
Revel. ●. 24.  yet are bidden but to hold their own; not to separate from the Angel, which hath not separated jezebel from the Church.   

SECTION. VII.  
What separation the Church of England hath made.  
YOur charge is no less injurious; that the Church of England hath made no separation: Concerning which, you have learned of your Martyr, and Overseers so to speak, 
Bar. p. 22. & 55. Fr. john's. ag. M. H.  as if before her late disclamation of Popery, in Queen Elizabeth's time, she had not been. Her Monuments could have taught you better, and have led you to her ancient Pedigree not much below the apostolic days, and in many descents have show'd you not a few worthy witnesses and Patrons of Truth; 
Act. & Mon. passim.  all which with their holy and constant offspring it might have pleased you to have separated from this imputation of not separating: Will you know therefore how the Church of England hath separated? In her first conversion she separated herself from Pagans; in her continuance she separated herself from gross heretics, and sealed her separation with blood: in her reformation she separated herself from wilful Papists by her public profession of Truth, and proclaimed hatred of error; and she daily doth separate the notoriously evil by suspensions by excommunications, though not so many as yours: Besides the particular separations of many from the acknowledged corruptions, 
Troubls. and excom. pa. 191 M. Spr. p. 1.  in judgement, profession, practice. All these will be avowed in spite of all contradiction: with what forehead then can you say; the whole Church of England hath not at all separated?  
After all your shifts and idle tales of constitution, you have separated from this Church against the Lord, not with the Lord, from it: If there be Christ with us, if the spirit of God in us, if Assemblies, if calling by the word: 
Fr. jun. lib. de Eccles.  whatsoever is, or is not else in the Constitution, there is whatsoever is required to the essence of a Church, no corruption either in gathering or continuance can destroy the truth of being, but the grace of being well: If Christ have taken away his word and spirit, you have justly subduced▪ else you have gone from him in us.  
And when you have all done, the Separatists Idol, visible Constitution, will prove but an appendance of an external form, no part of the essence of a true Church: and therefore your separation no less vain than the ground, than the Authors. Lastly, if our bounty should (which it cannot) grant, that our collection was at first deeply faulty: cannot the Ratihabition (as the Lawyers speak) be drawn back? 
Ratihabitio retroha●●, etc. Subsequens consensus jacob in Leam fecit eos coniuges, d. 29. q 1. S. sed obijcitur  In contracts (your own similitude) a following consent justifies an act done before consent, and why not in the contract betwixt GOD, and his visible Church? Lo, he hath confirmed it by his gracious benedictions, and as much as may be in silence, given us abundant proofs of his acceptation: That after-act, 
Barr. ag. Gyff  which makes your baptism lawful, why can it not make our Church?   

SECTION. VIII.  
Constitution of a Church.  
BBut for as much as Constitution is the very state of Brownisme, Let us (I beseech you) inquire a little into the Complexion of your Constitution: Whether Physic, or Law, or Architecture have lent you it: sure I am, it is in this use, Apocryphal: Never man used it thus scrupulously till your times: Though, what need you the help of Fathers or Schools, new words must express new Paradoxes. It is no treason to coin terms: What then is Constitution? Your Doctor can best tell us: As the Constitution of a Commonwealth, 
H. Answ. Counter p. p. 17●  or of a City is a gathering or uniting of people together into a civil policy: So (saith he) the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Israel, and of the City of God, the new jerusalem, is a gathering and uniting of people into a Divine Polity: The form of which Polity, is Order: which Order is requisite in all actions, and Administrations of the Church, as the Apostle showeth, and specially in the Constitution thereof: So that next unto faith in God, it is to be esteemed most necessary for all holy societies. 
Colos. 2. 5.  Hence Paul rejoiced in the Colossians order and faith: To this Constitution therefore, belong a people as the matter, secondly, a calling or gathering together as the form, whereof the Church consisteth. The Constitution of the Church of England is false in both: Why so? Ha●● we not a people? Are not those people called together? To prevent this, you say our Constitution is false, not none: Why false? Because those people have neither faith, 
Tertull. de Prescript.  nor order. For faith first: Who are you, that dare thus boldy break into the Closets of God, 
Tu ut homo extrimsecus vitumquemque nosti, putas quod vides, vides autem quonsque oculos habes, sed oculi Domini sunt alti, Homo in faciem, Deus in praecordiae contemplatur.  the hearts of men? and condemn them to want that, which cannot be seen by any but Divine eyes? how dare you intrude thus into the throne of your Maker? Consider, and confer seriously: What faith is it, that is thus necessarily required to each member in this Constitution? Your own Doctor shall define it: Faith required to the receiving in of members, is the knowledge of the doctrine of salvation by Christ 1. Cor. 12. 9 Gal. 3. 2. Now I beseech you in the fear of God, 
Principles & inferences concerning the visible Ch. An. 1607, p: 13  lay by a while all unchristian prejudice, and peremptory verdicts of those souls, which cost Christ as much blood as your own: and tell me ingenuously, whether you dare say, that not only your Christian brethren with whom you lately conversed, but even your forefathers, which lived under Queen Elizabeth's? first confused reformation, knew not the doctrine of salvation by Christ: if you say they did not, your 〈◊〉 judgement shallbe punished fearfully, by him whose office you usurp. As you look to answer before him that would not break the bruised Reed; nor quench the smoking Flax, presume not thus above men and Angels: If they did, then had they sufficient claim both to true Constitution and Church: But this faith must be testified by obedience, so it was: If you think not so, yours is not testified by love: Both were weak, both were true: Weakness in any grace or work, takes not away truth: Their sins of ignorance could no more 〈◊〉 God's covenant with them, them multiplicity of wives with the patriarchs.   

SECTION. IX.  
Secondly▪ Order.  
WHat wanted they then? Nothing but Order; 
Part of Constitution, how far requisite, and whether hindered by Constraint.  and not all Order, but yours: Order, a thing requisite and excellent, but let the world judge whether essential: Consider now, I beseech you in the bowels of Christ jesus, whither this be a matter for which heaven and earth should be mixed: whether for want of your Order, all the world must be put out of all Order, and the Church out of life and being: Nothing (say we) can be more disorderly, than the confusion of your Democracy, or popular state (if not Anarchy●) Where all (in a sort) ordain and excommunicate; We condemn you not for no true members of the Church: what can be more order 〈◊〉 (by your own confusions) than the 〈◊〉▪ 
D. 〈…〉 Brownists. Brow● 〈◊〉 of true Christians Inquir into M. White.  Church at Amsterdam, which yet you grant but faulty, If there be disproportion and dislocation of some parts, is it no true human body? will you rise from the feast, unless the dishes be set on in your own fashion? Is it no City, if there be mud-walles halfe-broken, low Cottages unequally built, no state house? But your order hath more essence, than you can express; and is the same which Politicians in their trade call (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) an incorporating into one common civil body; 
Answ. ibid. Arist. Pol. 3: c: 1.  by a voluntary union, and that under a lawful government: Our Church wants both: wherein there is both constraint, and false office. Take your own resemblance and your own ask: Say that some tyrant (as Basilius of Russia) shall forcibly compel a certain number of subjects into Moscow, and shall hold them in, by an awful Garrison, forcing them to new laws and Magistrates, perhaps hard and bloody: They yield, and making the best of all, live together in a cheerful communion, with due commerce, loving conversation, submissive execution of the enjoined laws: In such case, Whether is Moscow a true City, or not? Since your Doctor cities Aristotle; let it not irk him to learn of that Philosopher, 
Arist. Pol: 3: c. 1:  who can teach him, that when Clisthenes had driven out the Tyrants from Athens, and set up a new Government, 
Edesius & Frumentius pueri a Meropio Tyrio-Philosoph● in Indian deportati, postea ibi Christianam religionem plantarunt. Ruffin. l. 1. ● 9 Faemina i●ter Iberos.  and received many strangers, and bondmen into the Tribes, it was doubted, not which of them were citizens, but whither they were made Citizens unjustly. If you should find a company of true Christians in utmost India, would you stand upon terms, and inquire how they became so? While they have what is necessary for that heavenly profession; what need your curiosity trouble itself with the means?   

SECTION. X.  
Constraint requisite.  
YOu see then what an idle plea constraint is in the Constitution of a City, the ground of all your exception: But it is otherwise in God's City, the Church; why then doth his Doctor ship parallel these two? And why may not even constraint itself have place in the lawful constitution or reformation of a Church? Did not Manisses after his coming home to God, 
2. Chron. 33. 16  charge and command 〈◊〉 to serve the Lord God of Israel? Did not worthy josiah when he had made a covenant before the Lord, 
2. Chr. 34. 32. 33  cause all that were found in jerusalem, and Benjamin to stand to it, and compelled all that were found in Israel, to serve the Lord their God? What have Queen Elizabeth, 
2. Chron. ●5. 13:  or King james done more? or what other? Did not Asa upon Obeds prophesy, gather both judae and Benjamin, and all the strangers from Ephraim, Manasses, and Simeon, and enact with them, that whosoever would not seek the Lord God should be slain? 
Barr. ag. Ciff. Brow. Reform. without. tarry: Green wood Confer with Cooper. Brow. refor: without tar. Confer. with D. And▪ M. Hutch▪ Confer. with D. An. Refor. without tar.  What means this perverseness? You that teach we may not stay Prince's leisure to reform, will you not allow Princes to urge others to reform? What crime is this, that men were not suffered to be open Idolaters, that they were forced to yield submission to God's ordinances? Even your own teach that Magistrates may compel infidels to hear the doctrine of the Church; and Papists, you say elsewhere (though too roughly) are infidels: But you say, not to be members of the Church: God's people are of the willing sort: True, Neither did they compel them to this: They were before entered into the visible Church by true Baptism, 
Ber. Fides Suadenda non: cogenda. Counterpois.  though miserably corrupted. They were not now initiated, but purged: Your 〈◊〉 Doctor 〈◊〉 us from Bernard that faith is to be 〈…〉, to be compelled yet let him 〈◊〉 that the guests must be compelled to come in, 
Dixit Paterfamilias servis Quoscunque inveneritis, cogite intrare etc. Aug. ●p. 48.  though not to eat when they are come. Compelled, not by persuasions; for these were the first inuitation●, therefore by further means; Though this conceit hath no place with us; where men were urged not to receive a new faith, but to perform the old; 
Pless. de Eccles. c. 10  to abandon that wicked Idolatry which had defiled them; 
Augustin. Quod si cogiper legem aliquem vel ad bona licuisset, vos ipsi miseri 〈◊〉 nobis ad fidem purissimam cogi debuistis, sed absit a nostra conscientia, ut ad 〈…〉.  and to entertain but that truth, which the very power of their Baptism challenge that their hand▪ But this was the old song of the Donatists; Far be it from our conscience to compel any man to the faith. If God did not draw us, and by asweat violence bend our wills to his, when should we follow him? Either you have not read, or not cared for the practice of the ancient Church, and Augustine's resolution concerning the sharp penalties, imposed upon the Donatists (would God none of your kindred) in his time, 
August. Epist. 48. 〈◊〉. 68 Qui freneticum ligat, & qui 〈…〉 Quod 〈◊〉 umus sanctum est.  with his excellent defences of these proceedings.   

SECTION. XI.  
Constitution of the Church of England.  
But tell us then, what should have been done? The Gospel should have been every where preached; 
Bar. and Greenew. pas●im:  All converts should have been singled out, and have gi●en a voluntary and particular confession of their faith, and repentance: I answer you: The Gospel was long and worthily preached in the days of King Edward; enough to yield both Martyrs to the stake, and professors to the succeeding times: Were their holy Sermons, their learned writings, and their precious blood (which was no less vocal) of no force? Afterwards, in the beginning of famous Queen Elizabeth's reparation, what confluence was there of zealous Confessors returning now from their late exile? How painfully and Divinely did they labour in this Vineyard of God? How did they (with their many holy Partners, which had shrouded themselves during that storm of persecution, in a dangerous secrecy) spread themselves over this land, and each-where drew flocks of hearers to them, and with them? Is all this nothing to their ingrateful posterity? If you murmur that there was no more, take heed lest you forget there were so many: for us, we do seriously bless God for these, and triumph in them.  
All this premised; now comes a Christian Edict from the State, that every man shall yield obedience to this truth, wherein they had been thus instructed: It was performed by the most, whose submission, what was it but an actual profession of their faith, and repentance? And since such was their face, who dares judge of their hearts? More than this, if ever can be showed absolutely necessary in such a state of the Church to the very Constitution, and repaired. Being thereof, I do here vow never to take the Church of England for my mother.  
We know, 
H. answ. Counterp.  and grieve to see how scornfully your whole Sect, and amongst the rest, your resolute Dr. turns over these gracious entrances and proceedings of these two royal and blessed Reformers; and whom should he find to raise his scoffs upon, but that Saintlike Historian Master Fox? 
Act & Monum. Edit. 5. p. 1180.  Now (says Master Fox) a new face of things began to appear, as it were in a Stage, new Players coming in, the old thrust out: 
Counterp. 226.  Now (saith your Doctor's Comment) new Bishops came in, as Player's upon the old Stage of the Popish Church, as if the Church were no whit altered, but the men: Shall we say this is too much malice, or too little wit, and conscience? Even in the Lord Protectors days, that holy man reports, that after the Scriptures restored, and Masses abolished, greater things followed these softer beginnings, in the reformation of the Churches: Learned and godly Divines were called for from foreign parts, 
P. Martyr. P. Fagius. Bucer. etc.  a separation was made (though not so much willing, as wilful) of open and manifest adversaries from Professors, whether true or dissembled: Commissioners were appointed to visit every several Diocese. Every Bench of them had several godly and learned Preachers to instruct the people in the truth, and to dissuade them from Idolatry and Superstition. The Pope's Supremacy not thrust, but taught down: All wilworshippe whatsoever, oppugned by public Sermons: Images destroyed, Pilgrimages forbidden, the Sacraments enjoined to be reverently, and holily ministered, Ecclesiastical persons reform in life, in doctrine: Processions laid down, Presence and attendance upon God's word commanded, the holy expending of Sabbath days appointed, due preparation to God's table called for, set times of teaching injoyened to Bishops and other Ministers, all shrines and Monuments of Idolatry required to be utterly taken from public and private houses: 
Six Arti. 1547  All this, before his Parliament: By that, all bloody laws against God's truth were repealed, zealous Preachers encouraged, so as (saith that worthy Historian) God was much glorified, 
Pag. 1182. Col. 2. 60.  and the people in many places greatly edified: What need I go further than this first year? Hear this and be ashamed, and assure yourselves that no man can ever read those holy Monuments of the Church but must needs spit at your separation. After that sweet and hopeful Prince, what his renowned sister Queen Elizabeth did, the present times do speak and the future shall speak, when all these Murmurers shall sleep in the dust. The public disputations, zealous Preachings, restaurations of banished religion and men, extirpations of Idolatry, Christian laws, wise and holy proceedings, and renewed covenants with God, are still fresh in the memories of some, and in the ears of all, so as all the world will justly say, you have lost shame with truth, in denying it: Yea to fetch the matter yet further, If the Reader shall look back to the days of their Puissant Father King Henry the eight, 
Act. &. Monum Pag. 999. & 1000  he cannot but acknowledge (especially during the time of Queen Anne, and before those six bloody Articles) a true face of a Church (though overspread with some morphew of corruptions) and some commendable forwardness of Reformation: for both the Pope's Supremacy was abrogated, the true doctrine of justification commonly taught, confidence in Saints untaught, the vanity of Pardons declared, worship of Images and Pilgrimages forbidden, learned and godly Ministers required, their absences and misdemeanours inhibited, the Scriptures translated, publicly and privately enjoined to be read, and received, the word of God commanded to be sincerely and carefully preached: 
Act & Monum Edit. 5. p. 1002.  and to all this, holy Master Fox addeth for my conclusion, such a vigilant care was then in the King and his Council, how by all ways and means to redress Religion, to reform errors, to correct corrupt customs, to help ignorance, and to reduce the mis-leadings of Christ's Flock, drowned in blind Popery, superstitious customs, and Idolatry to some better form of Reformation, whereunto he provided not only these Articles, Precepts, Injunctions above specified, to inform the rude people, but also procured the Bishops to help forward the same cause of decayed doctrine, 
Bar. ag. Gyff. Conference. with Sperin. & M. Egerton.  with their diligent preaching, and teaching of the people. Go now & say, that suddenly in one day, by Queen Elizabeth's trumpet, 
Greenw. & Bar. Arg. to M. Car. twr. M. Travers, M. Chark.  or by the sound of a Bell, in the name of Antichrist, all were called to the Church: Go, say with your Patriarch that we erect Religions by Proclamations, 
Browne Reform. without. tarrying.  and Parliaments.  
Upon these premises I dare conclude, and doubt not to maintain against all Separatists in the world that England (to go no higher) had in the days of King Henry the eight, a true visible Church of God, and so by consequent their succeeding seed was by true Baptism justly admitted into the bosom thereof, and therefore that even of them without any further profession, God's Church was truly constituted: If you shall say that the following Idolatry of some of them in Queen Mary's days excluded them: Consider how hard it will be to prove that God's covenant with any people, is presently disannulled by the sins of the most, whether of ignorance, or weakness; and if they had herein renounced GOD, yet that GOD also mutually renounced them. To shut up your Constitution then: There is no remedy: Either you must go forward to Anabaptisme, 
M. Smith ag. R. Clifton.  or come back to us: All your Rabbins ca●not answer that charge of your rebaptized brother: If we be a true Church, you must return, If we be not (as a false Church is no Church of GOD) you must rebaptise: If our Baptism be good, 
Principl. & Infer. pag. 11.  then is our constitution good. Thus your own Principles teach. The outward part of the true visible Church is a Vow, Promise, Oath or Covenant betwixt GOD and the Saints: Now I ask, Is this made by us in Baptism, or no? If it be, than we have (by your Confession (for so much as is outwardly required) a true visible Church: so your separation is unjust: If it be not, than you must rebaptise: for the first Baptism is a nullity: and (if ours be not) you were never thereby as yet entered into any visible Church.   

SECTION. XII.  
The Aunswerers' title.  
AS for the title of Ringleader, wherewith I styled this pamphleter; if I have given him too much honour in his Sect, I am sorry: Perhaps I should have put him (pardon an homely, but in this sense, not unusall word) in the tail of this Train: Perhaps I should have endorsed my Letter to Master Smith, 
Separ. To the Title of Ringleader, wherewith it pleaseth this Pistler to style me, I answer that if the thing I have done be good, it is good and commendable to have been forward in it; if it be evil, let it be reproved by the light of God's word, and that God to whom I have done that I have done, will (I doubt not) give me both to see, and to heal mine error by speedy repentance: if I have fled away on foot, I shall return on Horseback: But as I durst never s●t foot into this way, but upon a most sound and unresist able conviction of conscience by the word  and his shadow; So I perceive he was: Whatsoever, whither he lead or follow, God meets with him: If he lead: Behold I will come against them that prophesy false dreams (saith the Lord) and do tell them, 
jer. 23. 32.  and cause my people to err by their lies. If he come behind; Thou shalt not follow a multitude in evil (saith God). 
Ezech. 13. 2. of God (as I was persuaded) so must my retiring be wrought by more solid reasons from the same word than are to be found in a thousand such pretty pamphlets and formal flourishes as this is  If either, or both, or neither, If he will go alone; Woe unto the foolish Prophets (saith the Lord) which follow their own spirits, and have seen nothing. Howsoever, your evil shall be reproved by the light of God's word: Your conjunction I cannot promise, your reproof I dare, If thereupon you shall find grace to see and heal your errors, we should with all brotherly humbleness attend on foot upon your return on Horseback; but if the sway of your mis-resolued conscience be heady and unresistible, and your retiring hopeless; these not solid reasons, these pretty pamphlets, these formal flourishes shall one day be fearful and material evidences against you before that awful judge, which hath already said, That judgements are prepared for the scorners, 
Pro. 9 21.  and stripes for the back of fools.   

SECTION. XIII.  
The Apostasy of the Church of England.  
I professed to bestow pity and sorrow upon you and your wrong: 
Separ. Your pitying of us, and sorrowing for us, especially for the wrong, done by us, were in you commendable affections, if by us justly occasioned; but if your Church be deeply drenched in Apostasy, and you cry Peace Peace, when sudden and certain desolation is at hand, it is you that do wrong, though you make the complaint: and so being cruel towards yourselves, & your own, whom you flatter: you cannot be truly pitiful towards others whom you bewail.  You entertain both harshly, and with a churlish repulse: What should a man do with such dispositions? Let him struck them on the back, they snarl at him; and show their teeth: Let him show them a Cudgel, they fly in his face: You allow not our actions, and return our wrong; Ours is both the injury and complaint: How can this be? You are the agents, we sit still, and suffer in this rent: Yet (since the cause makes the Schism) let us inquire, not whose the action is, but whose the desert: Our Church is deep drenched in Apostasy; and we cry Peace, Peace: No less than a whole Church at once, & that not sprinkled, or wet-shod, but drenched in Apostasy? What, did we fall off from you, or you from us? Tell me, were we ever the true Church of God? And were we then yours? We cannot fall unless we once stood: Was your Church before this Apostasy? Show us your ancestors in opinion: Name me but one that ever taught as you do; and I vow to separate: Was it not? Then we fell not from you: Every Apostasy of a Church must needs be from the true Church; A true Church, and not yours? And yet can there be but one true; See now whether in branding us with Apostasy, you have not proved yours to be no true Church: 
A Treatise of the Ministry of England, against M. H pag. 125.  Still I am ignorant: Queen Mary's days (you say) had a true Church, which separated from Popery, chose them Ministers, served God holily, from thence was our Apostasy: But, were not the same also (for the most part) Christians in King EDWARD'S days? Did they then, in that confused allowance of the Gospel, separate? Or (I pray you) were Cranmer, Latimer, Ridley, Hooper and the rest, parts of that Church, or no? Was there any other ordination of Ministers then from them? Reject these, and all the world will hiss at you; Receive them, and where is our Apostasy? What Antichristianisme have we, whereof these were freed? But you leap back (if I urge you far) from hence to the Apostles times, to fe●ch our once true Church from far, that it might be dear: You shall not carve for us: we like not these bold over-leapes of so many Centuries: I speak boldly, you dare not stand to the trial of any Church, since theirs: Now, I hear your Doctor say this Challenge savours of Rome: Antiquity is with you, a Popish plea: 
H. Amsworth in his fore-speech to his Count  We have willingly taken up our adversaries, at this (by pretence, their own) weapon: You debar it in the conscience of your own novel singularity: Yet your Pastor can be content to make use of Tertullian alone against all Fathers; That such things are justly to be charged with vanity, 
Inqu. into Wh. Tertul. l. de Orat  as are done without any precept either of the Lord or of the Apostles: 
Tert. l. de prescript.  And, the Apostles did faithfully deliver to the nations the Discipline they received of Christ, 
So de Virginib, Veland. That no continuance of time can prejudice Truth.  which we must believe to be the tumultuary Discipline of the refined house-full at Amster dam: What? all in all ages, and places till now Apostates? Say if you can, that those famous Churches, wherein Cyprian, Athanasius, Ambrose, Hierome, Austen, Chrysostome, 
Sime reprehendas errantem, patere me quae so errare cum talibus, Aug. Hi●r.  and the rest of those blessed lights lived, were less deep in this Apostasy than ours? O Apostatical Fathers, that separated not! yea, say if you dare, that other reformed Churches are not over the Ankles with us in this Apostasy? What hard news is this to us, when as, your Oracle dare say not much less, of the Reformed Churches of Netherlands, with whom you live? Thus he writes: For not hearing of them in other Congregations in these countries; this I answer, That seeing by the mercy of God, 
Fr. johnsonin his Anew. to T. Wh p. 26.  we have seen and forsaken the corruptions yet remaining in the public Ministration, and condition of these Churches (if they be all like to these of this City), we cannot therefore partake with them, in such case, without declining and Apostasy from the truth, which we have ourselves already received, and professed. See here, to partake with them in God's service is Apostasy; 
Aunsw ag. Broughton, p. 17 These Dutch Ch. offend not only in practical disorders, but in their Constitution, Gouerament w●●sh p, etc.  If so in the accessories, Alas, what crime is in the principal? It were but Apostasy to hear an English Sermon; a Dutch is no less: Woe is you that you dwell still in Meshech: Good men; it were not more happy for you then the Church, that you were well in heaven. No less than Apostasy? Let no Reader be appalled at so fearful a word, this is one of the terms of Art familiar to this way: Find but any one page of a Dutch printed volume without Apostasy, Excommunication, Commingling, Constitution, and suspect it not theirs: Heresy is not more frequent at Rome, than Apostasy at Amsterdam, nor Indulgences more ordinary there, then here Excommunications. Common use makes terrible things easy: Their own Master Sl. for holding with the Dutch Baptism, and read-prayers is acknowledged to be cast our for an Apostate: 
Troubls. and Excom. at Amsterd. p. 10.  yea their Doctor Mr. A●nsworth is noted with this mark from themselves: there is much latitude (as happy is) in their Apostasy: For when Stanshall Mercer and jacob johnson were to be chosen Officers in their Church, 
Brown charged with it by Barr. Letter. to M. Egert.  and exception was taken by some at their Apostasy, answer was made, It was not such Apostasy as debarred them from office, it was but aslippe. 
●. johnson ibid. p. 194.  john Mark (whether, as Isychius and Theophilact think, the blessed Evangelist, or some other holy Minister) is by the whole Parlour at Amsterdam, branded with this same Apostasy; who departed indeed, but from Paul in his journey, not from Christ in his faith, 
Fr. johnson Inq.  and therefore his (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) is expounded by (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) Act. 15. 38. why do we think much to drink of an Evangelists cup? 
Act. 15. 38. Departing. ●. not going with them  Yet let this ignorant Epistler teach his censorious answerer one point of his own (that is the Separatists) skill: and tell him that he objects two crimes to one poor Church, which are incompatible; want of Constitution and Apostasy. Thus writes your Master of us: If it were admitted (which can never be proved) that they sometimes had been true established Churches. 
Barr. Pres. to the Separation defend. In his observations p. 251. We do not there condemn the parish Assemblies as separated from Christ, but tr●ue them not as yet gathered to Christ. So Conser. ●●th Sperin. p. 9 Fr. johnson. Inquir. pag. 36.  Lo here, we never had true Constitution, therefore we are not capable of Apostasy: If we once had it, and so were true Churches, hear, what your Pastor saith: As Christ giveth to all true Churches their being, so we must leave it unto him to take it away, when, and as he pleaseth. And therefore since he hath not removed his Candlestick, 
H. Bar. observat. 242.  nor taken away his Kingdom, 
No faults disannul the being of a Church, until contempt of God's word be added thereunto after due conviction▪ The faults & errors of a Church may be severely reproved and convinced according to the quality thereof, and yet the Church not be condemned. N. B. job. ●4. 19  in spite of all objected Apostasies, we still continue so: and by consequent your separation upon this ground is most unjust. An Apostate had wont to be the fearful surname of damned julian: Tortus was an easy accuser, to whom yet, we may say with Elihu, Num dicis regi, Apostata? Behold now so many Apostates as men: Holy Cyprian describes him by forsaking Christ's colours, & taking up arms for Gentilism in life, or heresy in judgement: And Augustine tells us, there cannot be a greater sin than Apostasy; making elsewhere this sinner, worse than the Infidel And the old vulgar can give no worse term to (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) where he finds it, yea too (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) rebels themselves. What doth this brand to a Church, 
Vulg. edit. C●pr. Epi ad Cornel. Non est maius pechcaatum quam Apostate are a Deo. Aug. in Ps. 18.  not Christian only (though you deny it) but famous: Of whom is truly verified (after all your spleen) that which the spirit writes to the Angel of Ephesus: Laborasti & non Defecisti: Say if you can, what Article of the Christian, and apostolic faith have we renounced? What heresy maintain we? 
Prou. 6. 12. job 34. 18. Ezec 2. 3. Apocal. 2. 3, Thou hast laboured, and not given in.  Wherein have we run from the tents of Christ? What hold we that may not stand with life in Christ, and salvation? We challenge all men and Devils in this point, for our innocence: Distinguish, for stark shame of so foul a word; or (which is better) eat it whole; and let not this blemish be left upon your soul and name in the Records of God, 
Tert●l. de Pat, Si hominibus Pla●●t●r, Dominus offenditur, sivero illud entimur & laboramus ut 〈◊〉 dco piacere, & 〈◊〉 & maledicta debemus humana contemnere.  and the world; that you once said of a Church too good for yours, Drenched in apostasy. If we cry Peace, whiles you cry Apostasy; surely we flatter, whiles you rail: betwixt these two dangerous extremes, we know an wholesome mean, 
confessed by M. Ioh●s. loc. seq.  so to approve that we foster not security: so to censure, that we neither revile, nor separate: and in one word, to do that which your Pastor could exhort the separators from your Separation (for even this Schism hath Schisms) If we should mislike, yet to rest in our differences of judgement, 
Inq. of Th. White p. 65.  and notwithstanding peaceably to continue with the Church: Had you taken this course, you should neither have needed to expect our pity, nor to complain of our cruelty. Surely, whether our love be cruel, or not, your hatred is, whereof, take heed lest you hear from old jacob, 
Gen 49. 7.  Cursed be their wrath for it was fierce, and their rage for it was cruel.  
How can you expect compassion, 
Sep.  when you breath fire, 
But I will not discourage you in this affection, lest we find few in the same fault: the most in stead of pity and compassion, affording us nothing but fury and indignation. Cypr. de s●●●plic. prael. Quid facit in cord Christiano luporum seritas & canum rabbiss? August. Confess. l. 9 c. 9 Qual●a solet eructare turgens indigesta discordia?  and write gall? Never mention the fury of others indignation, till the venomous and desperate writings of Barrow and Greenwood be either worn out with time, or by the Thunderbolts of your (not rare) censures be struck down to hell, whence their maliciousness came. I forbear to recapitulate, how much rather had I help to bury, then to revive such un-christian exprobrations?   

SECTION. XIIII.  
The Separatists acknowledgements of the graces of the Church of England.  
INgratitude and unnaturalness to your Mother is objected, 
Se●.  In that you fly from her, 
The first action laid against us, is of unnaturalness and ingratitude towards our mother the Church of England, for our causeless separation from her: to which unjust accusation, and trivial querimony, our most just defence hath been, and is, that to our knowledge we have done her no wrong: we do freely, and with all thankfulness acknowledge every good thing she hath and which ourselves have there received.  yea now (woe is me) that you spit in her face, and mark her for an harlot: Would God the accusation were as far from being just, as from being trivial: Yet perhaps you intent it not in the lightness of this charge, but the commonness: you have caused me to smart for my charity, yet I forbear it not: What is your defence? That you have done her no wrong, to your knowledge. Modestly spoken, but doubtfully: we know your wrong, but we know not your knowledge: it is well if your wrong be not wilful: an ignorant wrong is both in more hope of amends, and of mercy: But is not this caution added, rather for that you think no hard measure can possibly be a wrong to so vile a Church? I ask, and would be denied: No, you do freely, and with all thankfulness acknowledge every good thing she hath: Whatsoever you do to us, I will not any more in favour of you, wilfully wrong myself: you have bidden men now to take you as a complete Separatist: and speak this for yourself and yours. Let the Reader now judge, whether the wrong of your Sect be wilful; and acknowledgement of our good, free and thankful. Your first falsenamed Martyr shall give the first witness of the titles of our Church: 
H. Barr. Praef. to the separ. defended,  Who (saith he) that were not drunk and intoxicate with the Whore's cup; could affirm this confuse Babel, these cages of unclean Birds, 
Causes of separ. def. p. 12. Confer. with D. Andr.  these prisons of foul and hateful spirits, to be the Spouse of Christ? And elsewhere, he calls the people of our Church Goats and Swine. Is this any wrong to your knowledge? The same Author: They have not (saith he) in their Churches any one thing in their practice and proceedings, not one pin, nail, 
Praef. to separ. def.  or hook according to the true pattern: Do you not now freely and thankfully acknowledge our Churches good things? What is more ordinary with him, and his brother in evil I. Greenewood, then to call our worthy Ministers Baal's Priests, 
Gyff. refuted touch Donat. observat. of M. H. Bar. p. 239.  Cainites, the marked servants of Antichrist, sellers of the Whore's wares, worshippers of the Beast. Is this yet any wrong to your knowledge? Pastor johnson sticks not to say, that the ministery and worship of the Church of England were taken out of the Whore's cup: 
Fr. john's. Reas. 9, ag. M. jac. p. 74.  and plainly styles our Church (as which of you do not?) daughter of the great Babylon, that mother of whoredoms and abominations of the earth: 
john's. ag. M. jac. Except. 3. Nota Bene.  yet more; That Hierarchy, Worship, Constitution and Government, which they profess and practise, being directly Antichristian, do utterly destroy true Christianity, so as their people and Churches, cannot in that estate be judged true Christians: Do you not now freely and thankfully acknowledge our good things? What can any Devil of hell say worse against us then this, That we are no Christians? Or what good can there be in us, if no true Christianity? 
Ibid.  If we denied every Article of the Christian Creed: if we were Mahometans (as your good Pastor sticks not to compare us), if the most damned Heretics under heaven, what could he say but no Christians? Your teacher and Pastor (which is a wonder) agree: For your Doctor Ainsworth makes this one head of his poisonous Counterpoison, 
Counterpoys. pag. 127. & 131.  that Christ is not the head, Mediator, Prophet, Priest, King of the Church of England: You, their Disciple are not yet promoted to this height of immodesty; yet what are your good things? Even to you, we are Apostates, Traitors, Rebels, Babylonish: This is well for a learner: Hereafter (if you will hear me) keep our good things to yourself, and report our evil.  
Yea, that your uncharitableness may be above all examples, monstrous; You do not only deny us any interest in the Church of Christ, but exclude us (what you may) from all hope and possibility of attaining the honour of Christendom: For when a godly Minister protested to Master Barrow, the truth of his ministery; upon the approbation also of his people, he received this answer from him: 
Barr. Confer. With M. Sperm as Bar them hath written it. pag. 9  Though you had such allowance, it could nothing avail, but rather overthrow your ministery; they being as yet ungathered to Christ, and therefore neither may not in this estate choose them a Minister, nor any exercise a ministery unto them, without heinous sacrilege, O desperate judgement; we neither are Christians, nor can be: No Christianity without faith, no faith without the ministery of the word, no word to us without sacrilege: What are we, 
Fr. job. 7. Reas. aga. jac p. 64. G. john's. Praef. to the Pastor.  that the very offer of bringing us to God should be criminal? These are your acknowledgements of our good: Who have learned of your Pastor to kiss and kill all at once: to bless and curse with one breath: your mercies are cruel.   

SECTION. XV.  
The unnaturalness of some principal Separatists.  
BUT who can wonder at your unnaturalness to the Church, 
Russin. l. 2. Eccl. hist. c, 3.  that hears what measure you meet to your own? Error is commonly joined with cruelty: 
Aug. Epist. & Possid. in vita Aug.  The outrageous demeanours of the Circumcelliones in Augustine's time; and more than barbarous tyranny of the Arrians before him are well known by all Histories, 
Euseb hist. eccls Damnis gravissimis & caedibus afficiebant, armati diversis telis.  and not enough by any: God forbid, that I should compare you to these. Hear rather of Novatus, the father of a not-unlike Sect, of whom Cyprian reports, 
Socrates l. 2. c. 22. & 30.  that he would neither bestow bread on his father alive, nor burial on him dead, but suffered him both to starve and stink in the street: 
Cypr. l. 2. Ep. 8. Novati pater in vico fame mortuns nec postea ab illo sepultus. Sic Optat. l. 1. Purpurus Donatista occidit sororis filios etc. G. john's. Discourse of troubles and Excommunications at Amsterdam printed 1603  and for his wife (lest he should be merciful to any) he spurned her with his heel, and slew his own child in her body: What need I seek so far? I grieve to think and report, that your own Pastor hath paralleled this cruelty: His own brother (which is no less savage) though one of your Sect, is the public accuser and condemner of him in this crime to all the world: who after a pitiful relation of his eight years quarrels with him, and four years' excommunication, in his Epistle before a large volume to this purpose, writes thus: 
Ibid. p. 5.   
After all these, hath not our kind, careful, and old Father come a long journey to make Peace? Hath he not laboured with you, the Elders and the Church, to bring you to peace? Hath he not used the help and counsel of the Reformed Churches herein? Yet will you not be reclaimed, but adding that sin above all, have also monstrously excommunicated your father, the peace-seeker, etc. and strait; How oft desired he you (as if he had been the son, and you the father) even with tears, that you would repent. In a word, how came he and I to your door, showing you that it might be (upon his departing) you should see his face no more, etc. Yet you forced him by your ill dealing, still to leave upon you, his curse, and all the curses written in God's book against unthankful and disobedient children. Thus far a brother concerning a brother, against father and brother; Other strangely-unkind usages of both, I had rather leave to the discovery of Master White, and this miserable plaintive, 
Discovery of Brownisme. Vid. G. john's. book.  who have written enough to make an enemy ashamed: But whereupon was all this fearful broil in a pure Church? For nothing but a little lace, and whale-bone in his wives sleeve. The Trojan war could not be slandered with so weighty a beginning. 
Inq. into Th. Wh. Discou.  As for your Elder, Daniel Studly (whom your Pastor so much extolleth) if Master Whites Apostasy may be your shift against his relation; let him speak who should have been a fellow-elder with him, banished for your truth, though erected by your censure: 
Same Epist. p. 15  Mark (saith G. john's. of this Studly) how the Lord hath judged him with unnaturalness to his own children, suffering them to lie at other men's feet, and hang on other men's hands, 
They say Fi●●a ●ponsae.  whiles he, his wife, and her daughter fared daintily, and went prankingly in apparel, even in this place of banishment. It is no joy to me to blazen these, 
Mihi accusatio etiam vera contra fratrem displ●cet Hieron. adversus Ruffin.  or your othersins; would God they were fewer, and less in us all. Only it was fit the world should know, as how undutiful you are to your common parent, so that Father, Brother, Children bear part with your mother in these your cruelties.   

SECTION. XVI.  
what the Separatists think themselves beholden to the Church of England for.  
IF then such be the good things of our Church; What good can you acknowledge to have received from her? 
Bar. exam. before the Archb. and L. Anderson Browne state of Christians d. 39 Qui non habet quod det, quomodo det? vox Donat. Opta. l. 1  Nothing gives what it hath not: A Baptism perhaps; Alas, but no true Sacrament, you say: yea the seal of gracelessness and mischief; As little are you beholden to the Church for that, as the Church to you, for your good acceptation: Why are you not rebaptized? You that cannot abide a false Church, why do you content yourselves with a false Sacrament? especially, since our Church, being not yet gathered to Christ is no Church, and therefore her baptism a nullity. 
Barrow. supra.   
What else do you owe to the liberality of this Stepdame? You are close; your Pastor is lavish for you both; who thus speaks of himself, and you, and us: 
Fr. ●●hns. ag. M. I●cob p. 41. 〈◊〉. 2.  I confess that whiles I was Minister in your Church of England, I stood in an Antichristian estate, yet doubt I not, but even then, being of the Elect of God I was partaker through faith, of the mercy of God in Christ to salvation, but as for you (Master jacob and his fellow-Christians) whiles you thus remain, you cannot in that estate approve yourselves to have the promise of salvation. Behold here, the Church of England gave you but an Antichristian estate; if God give secret mercy, what is that to her?  
God's superabundant grace doth neither abate aught of her Antichristianisme, 
Sep.  nor move you to follow him in covering, 
The superabundant grace of God covering and passing by the manifold enormities in that Church wherewith these good things are inseparably commingled, and wherein we also through ignorance and infirmity were inwrapp ed.  and passing by the manifold enormities in our Church, wherewith those good things are inseparably commingled: Your own mouth shall condemn you: Doth God pass over our enormities, and do you stick, yea separate? Doth his grace cover them, and do you display them? Have you learned to be more just than your Maker? Or if you be not above his justice, Why are you against his mercy? God hath not disclaimed us by your own confession; you have prevented him. If Prince's leisures may not be stayed in reforming, yet shall not Gods in rejecting? Your ignorance enwrapped you in our errors: his infinite wisdom sees them, and yet his infinite mercy forbears them: so might you at once have seen, disliked, stayed: If you did not herein go contrary to the courses of our common God, how happy should both sides have been? yea how should there be no sides? How should we be more inseparably commingled, than our good and evil?  
But should you have continued still in sin that grace might have abounded? 
Sep.  God forbid: 
But what then? should we still have continued in sin, that grace might have abounded? If God have caused a further truth like a light in a dark place, to shine in our hearts, should we still have mingled that light with darkness, contrary to the Lords own practice? Goe 1. 4. and express precept, 2. Cor. 6. 14.  you might have continued here without sin (save your own) and then grace would no less have abounded to you, than now your sin abounds in not continuing: What need you to surfeit of another man's Trencher? Others sins need no more to infect you, than your graces can sanctify them. As for your further light, suspect it not of God: suspect it to be mere darkness: and if the light in you be darkness, 
Gen. 1. 2.  how great is that darkness? What? so true and glorious a light of God, and never seen till now? No worlds, times, Churches, patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, 
Es. 5. 20. Woe to them that put darkness for light.  Martyrs, Fathers, Doctors, Christians ever saw this truth look forth besides you, until you? external light was God's first creature, and shall this spiritual light, 
Es. 59 9  whereby all Churches should be discerned come thus late? Mistrust therefore your eyes, and your light: and fear isay's woe, and the jews miserable disappointment: we wait for light, but lo it is darkness, for brightness, but we walk in obscurity.   

SECTION. XVII.  
The Motherhood of the Church of England, how far it obligeth us.  
THE Church of England is your mother, to her small comfort; she hath borne you, and repent. Alas, you have given her cause to power out jobs curses upon your birthday, by your not only forsaking but cursing her: Stand not upon her faults, which you shall never prove capital: 
Deu. 21. 22▪ 23.  Note only the best Parent might have brought forth a rebellious son to be stoned. What then? 
Sep.  Do we prefer duty to piety, 
But the Church of England (say you) is our Mother, and so ought not to be avoided▪ But say I, we must not so cleave to holy mother Church, as we neglect our heavenly father, and his commandments, which we know in that estate we could not but transgress, and that heinously, and against our consciences, not only in the want of many Christian Ordinances, to which we are most straightly bound, both by God's word and our own necessities.  and so plead for our holy mother Church, that we neglect our heavenly Father, yea offend him? See what you say: It must needs be an holy mother that cannot be pleased without the displeasure of God: A good wife, that opposes such an husband: a good son that upbraids this unjustly: Therefore is she a Church, your mother, holy, because she bred you to God, cleaves to him, obeys his commandments, and commands them. And so far is she from this desperate contradiction, that she voweth not to hold you for her son, unless you honour God as a father. It is a wilful slander, that you could not but heinously transgress under her: I dare take it upon my soul, that all your transgression which you should necessarily have incurred by her obedience, is nothing so heinous, as your unchariblenesse in your censures and disobedience. Conscience is a common plea even to those you hate: we inquire not how strong it is, but how well informed: not whether it suggest this, but whereupon. To go against the conscience is sin, to follow a misinformed conscience is sin also: If you do not the first, we know you are faulty in the second: He that is greater than the conscience will not take this for an excuse: But wherein should have been this transgression: 
Mater Ecclesia, matter est etiam matris nostrae.  so unavoidable, heinous, against conscience? First in the want of many Ordinances, to which we are most strictly bound, 
Aug. Ep. 38.  both by God's word, and our own necessities.   

SECTION. XVIII.  
The want of pretended Ordinances of God, whether sinful to us: and whether they are to be set up without Princes.  
CAn you think this hangs well together? You should here want many of God's ordinances: why should you want them? Because you are not suffered to enjoy them: who hinders it? Superior powers: Did ever man wilfully and heinously offend, 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for wanting of that which he could not have? What hath conscience to do with that which is out of our power? Is necessity with you become a sin, and that heinous? David is driven to lurk in the wilderness, and forced to want the use of many divine Ordinances: 
Nemo per exteriorem violentiam corrumpitur: si interior innocentia custodiatur. c. ●. q. 3. Custodi. etc.  It was his sorrow, not his transgression, He complains of this, but doth he accuse himself of sin? Not to desire them had been sin, no sin to be debated them: Well might this be Saul's sin but not his. Have you not sins enough of your own, that you must needs borrow of others? But I see your ground: You are bound to have these Ordinances; and therefore without Princes, yea against them: so it is your transgression to want them in spite of Magistrates, 
Ad docendum populum Israeliticum, omnipotens deus prophetis praeconium dedi▪, non regibus imperavit. Aug. l. 2. contr. Gau. c. 11. Barr. causes of scpera, def. p. 6.  Gaudentius the Donatist taught you this of old; And this is one of the Hebrew songs which Master B●rrow sings to us in Babylon, that we care not to make Christ attend upon Princes, and to be subject to their laws, and government: and his Predecessor (the root of your sect) tells us in this sense the kingdom of heaven must suffer violence; and that it comes not with observation; that men may say, 
Brow. Reform: without tarrying.  Lo the Parliament or lo the Bishop's decrees: and in the same treatise. The Lord's kingdom must wait on your policy, 
Aug. contr. Petilia n. l. 2.  forsooth; and his Church must be framed to your civil state etc. Just as that Donatist of old, 
Optatus Milevit. lib. 3●  in Augustine, Quid vobis etc. What have you to do with worldly Emperors? and as that other in Optatus: Quid Imperatori cum Ecclesia? What hath the Emperor to do with the Church? Yea your Martyr fears not to teach us, 
Barr. 2. Exa●●i● nation before the L. Archb. and L. chief-justice. compar. with his reply to M. Gyff. Art. 5.  that God's servants being as yet private men, may and must together build his Church, though all the Princes of the world should prohibit the same upon pain of death: Belike than you should sin heinously, if you should not be rebels: The question is not, whether we should ask leave of Princes to be Christians; but whether of Christian Princes we should ask leave to establish circumstances of government: God must be served, though we suffer; our blood is well bestowed upon our maker, but in patience, not in violence. Private profession is one thing; Public reformation & injunction is another; Every man must do that in the main: none may do this, but they of whom God says, I have said, ye are Gods: and of them: There is difference betwixt Christian and Heathen Princes: If (at least) all Princes were not to you Heathen: If these should have been altogether stayed for, Religion had come late: If the other should not be stayed for: Religion would soon be over laid with confusion: Lastly, the body of Religion is one thing, the skirts of outward government another: that may not depend on men to be embraced, or (with loyalty) prosecuted: these (upon those general rules Christ) both may, 
● Sam. 24. 6.  and do, and must: If you cut off but one lap of these with David, you shall be touched: To deny this power to God's Deputies on earth, what is it, 
Num. 16. 3.  but ye take too much upon you Mo●es and Aaron, all the Congregation is holy: wherefore lift ye yourselves above the Congregation of the Lord? See, if herein you come not too near the walls of that Rome which ye so abhor and accurse, 
Counter poise. p. 230.  in ascribing such power to the Church, 
2. Chr. 13.  none to Princes. Let your Doctor tell you, 
2. Chr. 14. & 15.  whether the best Israelites in the times of Abijah, 
2. Chr. 29.  Asa, jehosaphat, Ezekiah, josiah, took upon them to reform without, 
2. Chr. 30.  or before, 
2. Chr. 34.  or against their Princes? Yea did Nehemiah himself without Artahshaht (though an heathen King) set upon the walls of God's City? Or what did Zerubbabel, and jeshua without Cyrus? 
Ezr. 2. & 3. 2.  In whose time Haggai and Zechariah prophesied indeed, but built not: And when contrary Letters came from above, they laid by both Trowels and Swords: They would be Jews still, they would not be rebels for God: 
Ezr. 4. 23. 24.  Had those Letters enjoined Swine's flesh, or Idolatry, or forbidden the use of the law, those which now yielded, had suffered, and at once testified their obedience to authority, and piety to him that sits in the assembly of these earthen Gods. I urge no more: Perhaps you are more wise or less mutinous: you might easily therefore purge your conscience from this sin, of wanting what you might not perforce enjoy.  
Say that your Church should employ you back to this our Babylon, for the calling out of more Proselytes: you are intercepted, imprisoned: Shall it be sin in you not to hear the Prophecies at Amsterdam? The Clinke is a lawful excuse: If your feet be bound, your conscience is not bound. In these negatives, outward force takes away both sin and blame, and altars them from the patient to the actor: so that now you see your strait bonds (if they were such) loosed by obedience, and overruling power.   

SECTION. XIX.  
The bonds of God's word unjustly pleaded by the Separ.  
BUT what bonds were these strait ones? God's word and your own necessity: Both strong and indissoluble where God hath bidden, God forbid that we should care for the forbiddance of men: I reverence from my soul (so doth our Church their dear Sister) those worthy foreign Churches which have chosen and followed those forms of outward government that are every way fittest for their own condition. It is enough for your Sect, to censure them: I touch nothing common to them with you: 
a August. Ep. 58▪ pastors autem & doctores qu●s maxime ut discernerem voluisti eosdem puto esse sicut & tibi visum est, ut non alios pastors, alios Doctores intelligeremus, sed ideo cum praedixisset pastors, subiunxisse Doctores, ut intelligerent Pastores ad officium suum pertinere doctrinam Barr. ag. Gyff. inveighs for this cause against the Consistory of Gene●a. Fr▪ johns. complaints of the Dutch and Fr. Churches. Description of a visible Church, cannot make a Distinct. in the Definition of their Offices.  While the world standeth, where will it ever be showed out of the sacred book of God, that he hath charged. Let there be perpetual Lay-Elders in every Congregation: Let every Assembly have a Pastor and Doctor, distinct in their charge and offices: Let all decisions, excommunications, ordinations be performed by the whole multitude: Let private Christians (above the first turn, in extremity) agree to set over themselves a Pastor, chosen from amongst them and receive him with prayer, 
State of Christians 119.  and (unless that ceremony be turned to pomp and superstition) by imposition of hands. 
Descript. of vis. Ch. H. Clap. Epist before his treatise of sin ag:: the holy Ghost. Brownists fourth Position.  Let there be Widowers (which you call relievers) appointed every where to the church-service Let certain discreet and able men which are not Ministers be appointed to preach the Gospel and whole truth of God to the people.  
All the learned Divines of other Churches are in these left, yea in the most of them censured by you: Hath God spoken these things to you alone? Plead not Revelations, and we fear you not: Pardon so homely an example: As soon and by the same illumination shall G. john's. prove to your Consistory the lace of the Pastor's wives sleeve, 
Trouble and ●xcom. at Amsterdam.  or rings, or Whalebones, or other amongst you (as your Pastor confesseth) knit stockings, or Cork-shoes forbidden flatly by Scriptures, 
Fr. john's. in a Letter to M. Smith.  as these commanded. We see the letter of the Scriptures with you: you shall fetch blood of them with straining, ere you shall wring out this sense: No, no▪ (M. R.) never make God your stale: Many of your ordinances came from no ●ier than your own brain: Others of them though God acknowledges yet he imposed not: Pretend what you will: These are but the cords of your own conceit, not bonds of Christian obedience.   

SECTION. XX.  
The necessity of their pretended Ordinances.  
THE first of these then is easily untwisted: your second is necessity: Then which, what can be stronger? what law, or what remedy is against necessity? What we must have, we cannot want: Oppose but the public necessity to yours: your necessity of having, to the public necessity of withholding: and let one of these necessities (like two nails) drive out another: So they have done, and your own necessity (as the stronger) hath prevailed; for that other necessity might be eluded by flight: you have sought and found elsewhere, what the necessity of our laws denied, and the necessity of your conscience required. 
Nulla necessitas maior est charitate. H●eron.  Beware lest unjustly: Sin is as strong bond to a good heart as impossibility; Christians can not do what they ought not: 
Apol. ad Ruff.  Contrary to the laws of your Prince and Country, you have fled not only from us, but from our Communion. Either is disobedience no sin, or might you do this evil that good may come of it? But what necessity is this? simple and absolute, or conditional? Is there no remedy but you must needs have such Elders, 
Fr. jun. de Eccl. Sed accidunt persaepe tempora quibus aut nova Ecclesia generatur, aut altera pars interumpitur (scilicet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) et tamen Ecclesia esse non d●sinit, formà nimirum essentiali adhuc permanente.  Pastors, Doctors, Relievers, such Offices, such executions? Can there be no Church, no Christians without them? What shall we say of the families of the patriarchs, of the jewish Congregations under the law, yea of Christ and his Apostles? Either deny them to have been visible Churches, or show us your distinct Offices amongst them: But as yet (you say) they were not: Therefore God hath had a true Church (thousands of years) without them: Therefore they are not of the essence of the Church: You call me to the times since Christ: I demand then, was there not a worthy Church of God in Jerusalem from the time of Christ's Ascension, till the election of the seven Deacons. Those hundred and twenty Disciples, Act. 1. 15. and three thousand Converts, Act. 2. 41. Those continual Troops that flocked to the Apostles, were they no true Church? Let the Apostles and Evangelists be Pastors and Doctors: 
Act 7. beg. Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9 Meminisse diaconi debent quoniam Apostolos (id est) Episcopos & praepositos Dominus elegit, Diaconos autem post ascensum Domini in caelos Apostoli sibi constituerunt Episcopatus su & Ecclesiae ministros.  where were their Elders, Deacons, Relievers? Afterwards, when Deacons were ordained, yet what news is there of Elders, till Act. 11? yet that of Jerusalem was more forward than the rest: We will not (as you are wont) argue from scriptures negatively: no proof yet much probability is in Saint Paul's silence: He writes to Rome, Corinth, and other Churches: those his Divine letters in a sweet Christian civility salute even Ordinary Christians: And would he have utterly passed by all mention of these Church-Officers amongst his so precise acknowledgement of lesser titles in others, 
Rom. 1. 8.  if they had been ere this ordained? yet all these more than true Churches, 
1. Cor. 1. 5.  famous some of them, rich, forward, and exemplary. 
1. Thess. 1. 7.  Only the Philippian Church is styled with Bishops and Deacons, but no Elders besides them. 
Gal▪ 4. 15.  The Churches of Christ since these, 
Phil. 1. 2.  (if at least you will grant that Christ had any Church till now) have continued in a recorded succession through many hundreds of years: Search the Monuments of her Histories: Show us where ever in particular Congregations all these your necessary Offices (as you describe them) were either found or required. It was therefore a new-no-Necessity that bound you to this course, or (if you had rather) a Necessity of Fallibility: If with these God may be well served, he may be well served without them. This is not that unum necessarium that Christ commends in Mary: you might have sat still with less trouble, and more thanks.   

SECTION. XXI.  
The enormities of the Church in common.  
But besides that we ought to have had somewhat which we want, we have some what which we should have wanted: Some? yea many Antichristian enormities. 
Sep.  To say we are absolute, and neither want nor abound, 
But also in our most sinful subjection to many Antichristian enormities, which we are bound to eschew as hell. Fr. john's. ag. M. jacob. Bar. Gyff. refuted, i. Transgress p. 28.  were the voice of Laodicea or Tyrus in the Prophet: Our Church as she is true, so humble: and is as far from arrogating perfection, as acknowledging falsehood: If she have enormities yet not so many: or if many, not Antichristian. Your Cham hath espied ninety one nakednesses in this his Mother, and glories to show them, All his malice cannot show one Fundamental error: and when the foul mouth of your false Martyr hath said all, they are but some spots and blemishes, not the old running issues, and incurable botches of Egypt: The particulars shall plead for themselves. These you eschew as hell: While you go on thus uncharitably, both alike: Do you hate these more than Master Smith, and his faction hates yours? His Character shall be judge: So do we value your detestation as you his. It were well for you if you eschewed these enormities less, and hell more: Your sinful subjection to these unchristian humours will prove more fearful then to our Antichristian enormities.   

SECTION. XXII.  
The Church of England, is the Spouse of Christ.  
SHE may be your Mother (you say) and not the Lords Wife. 
Sep.  It is a good Mother that hath Children and no husband: 
She is our Mother▪ o may she be, and yet not the Lords wife, every mother of children is not a wife. Ammi and Ruhae●ah were bidden to plead with their mother Apostate Israel, & plead that she was not the Lord's wife, nor he her husband. Ho. 2. 1. 2. Cypr. de simpli●. Praelator, Adulterari non potest sponsa Christi, incorrupta est & Pudica. 1. Kin. 12. 29. Hos. 2. 16. 2. 13.  Why did you not call her plain whore? Your old Emblem is, As is the Mother, so is the Daughter. These are the modest circumlocutions of a good son; who cares not to prove himself a bastard, that his mother may be marked for an Harlot: Be you a true Loammi, but England shall never (I hope) prove an Apostate Israel: We have no Calves in our Dan and Bethel none of Iero●oams Idolatry: We have still called God Ishi, and never burned incense to Baalim: It is your synagogue that hath fallen away from us, as Israel from juda: But these children were bidden to plead: Gods command shields them from the note of ungracious. Abraham must sacrifice his son and this son must condemn his Mother; show us either our equal desert, or your equal warrant. Where hath God proclaimed our Church not his? By whose hand hath he published her divorce? 
Sep.  You have shamed her womb, 
And though you forbid us a thousand times, yet must we plead: not to exccuse our fault, but to justify our innocency: And that not only nor so much in respect of ourselves, as of the truth which without sacrilege we may not suffer to be condemned unheard. And if you yet hear her not, rather blame yourselves as deaf, then us as dumb. Hierom. ad Eustoch. Epitaph Paulae ex Psal 67.  not she her bed, not God her demeanour.  
Your tongues are your own, who can forbid you? We know you will plead and excuse, and censure, and defend, till all the world be weary: we may pray with Hierome to this sense that of the Psalmist Increpa Domine bestias calami: yet we see your pens, tongues, and presses, busy and violent. I will not apply to you that which Augustine of his Donatists. 
August. contr. Epist. Parmen. li. 1.  Though truth compel you to be dumb, yet iniquity will not suffer you to be silent. But if you write whole Marts and worlds of volumes, you shall never be able either to justify your innocence, or excuse your fault: In the mean time the noise of your contentions is so great that your truth cannot be heard: Learned junius, and our learnedst Divines, and neighbour Churches, 
Epistol. juni. ad Separ.  have oft heard your clamours, never your truth: So little have you of this and so much of the other, that we are ready to wish (as he of old) either ourselves deaf or you dumb.   

SECTION. XXIII.  
How the Church of England, hath separated from Babylon.  
THe spirit of your Proto-Martyr would hardly have digested this Title of Babylon, 
Giff. refut. 2. transg.  Mother of God's people; 
Sep.  a murdering Stepmother, 
Is not babylon the mother of God's people, whom he therefore commandeth to depart out of her, lest being partakers of her sins, they also partake of her plagues. Revel. 18. 2. Answ. for● speech to Counter poise.  rather: She cannot be a Mother of Children to God, and no Church of God: Notwithstanding, God's people (would he say) may be in her, not of her. So Babylon bore them not, but Zion in Babylon, But I fear not your excess of charity: You fly to your Doctor's challenge; and ask what we say against you for us, which Rome will not say for herself against us: Will you justify this plea of Rome, or not? If you will; why do you revile her? If you will not: why do you object it?  
Hear then what we say both to you and them, 
Sep.  our enemies both: 
And to conclude, what say you more against us, for your mother the Church of England, than the Papists do for their mother and your mother's mother, the Church of Rome, against you, whom they condemn as unnatural bastards and impious Patricides in your separations from her, A Simone Zelota Niceph. Alij a jos. Arimath, cuius hic sepulchrum cernitur. Angli Pascha Graeco more celebrarunt. jacob Armin. Disp Cant. 8. 8. Fr. jun. lib▪ sing. de Eccle.  and yet the enemies of our enemies: First we disclaim, and defy your Pedigree and theirs. The Church of Rome was never our Mothers Mother: Our Christian faith came not from the seven-hilles: Neither was derived either from Augustine the Monk, or Pope Gregory. Britanny had a worthy Church before either of them looked into the world: It is true that the ancient Roman Church was Sister to ours: here was near kindred, no dependence: And not more consanguinity, than (while she continued faithful) Christian love: Now she is gone a whoring, her chaste Sister justly spiteth at her: yet even still (if you distinguish, as your learned Antagonist hath taught you, betwixt the Church and Papacy) She acknowledges her Sisterhood, though she refrains her conversation: as she hath many slavish and factious abettors of her known and gross errors (to whom we deny this title) affirming them the body whereof Antichrist is the head, the great whore, and mother of abominations; so again how many thousands hath she, which retaining the foundation according to their knowledge, (as our learned whitaker's had wont to say of Bernard) follow Absolom with a simple heart: all which to reject from God's Church, were no better than presumptuous cruelty. It were well for you before God & the world, if you could as easily wash your hands of unnatural impiety, and trecherousnesse, as we of bastardy & unjust sequestration. There can be no bastardy, where was never any motherhood, we were nephews to that Church, never sons: unless as Rome was the Mother city of the world, so by human institution, we suffered ourselves to be ranged under her patriarchal authority, as being the most famous Church of the West: a matter of courtesy, and pretended Order; no necessity, no spiritual obligation. As for our sequestration, your mouth and theirs may be stopped with this answer: As all corrupted Churches, so some things the Church of Rome still holds aright; a true God in three persons, true Scriptures, though with addition, a true Christ, though mangled with foul and erroneous consequences; true Baptism though shamefully deformed with rotten traditions; & many other undeniable truths of God: some other things (and too many) her wicked Apostasy hath devised and maintained abominably amiss; the body of her Antichristianisme, gross errors, and (by just sequel) heresies; their Pope's supremacy, infallibility, illimitation, transubstantiation, idolatrous and superstitious worship, and a thousand other of this bran: In regard of all these latter, we profess to the world a just and ancient separation from this false faith and devotion of the Romish Church; which neither you will say, nor they shall ever prove, faulty: yea rather they have in all these separated from us, who still irrefragably profess to hold with the ancient, from whom they are departed. In regard of the other we are still with them, holding and embracing with them what they hold with Christ: neither will you (I think) ever prove that in these we should differ: As for our communion, they have separated us by their proud and foolish excommunications: if they had not, we would justly have begun: from their Tyranny and Antichristianisme, from their miserable Idolatry: but as for the body of their poor seduced Christians, which remain amongst them upon the true foundation (as doubtless there are thousands of them which laugh at their Pardons, Miracles, Superstitions and their trust in merits, reposing only upon Christ) we adhere to them in love and pity, and have testified our affection by our blood, ready upon any just call to do it more; neither would fear to join with them in any true service of our common God: But the full discourse of this point, 
Phil. Morn du Plesses. Lib. de Eccles. cap. 10.  that honourable and learned plesses hath so forstalled, that whatsoever 〈◊〉 say, would seem but borrowed. Unto his rich Treatise I refer my Reader, for full satisfaction: Would God this point were thoroughly known, and well weighed on all parts. The neglect or ignorance whereof hath both bred and nursed your separation, and driven the weak and inconsiderate into strange extremities.  
This say we for ourselves in no more charity than truth: But for you; how dare you make this shameless Comparison? Can your heart suffer your tongue to say, that there is no more difference betwixt Rome and us, than there is betwixt us and you? How many hundred errors, how many damnable heresies have we evinced with you, in that (so compounded) Church? show us but one mis-opinion in our Church that you can prove within the ken of the foundation? Let not zeal make you impudent: 
Counterp. p. 171.  Your Doctor could say (ingenuously sure) that in the doctrines which she professeth, she is far better and purer than that Whore mother of Rome, and your last Martyr yet better: 
1. P●nry. Exam. before M. Fanshaw & just. Yong.  If you mean (saith he) by a Church (as the most do) that public profession whereby men do profess salvation to be had by the death and righteousness of jesus Christ, I am free from denying any Church of Christ to be in this land: for I know the Doctrine touching the holy Trinity, the natures and Offices of the Lord jesus, free justification by him; both the Sacraments, etc. published by her majesties authority, and commanded by her laws, to be the Lords blessed and undoubted truths, without the knowledge and profession whereof no salvation is to be had: Thus he with some honesty, though little sense. If therefore your will do not stand in your light, you may well see, why we should thus forsake their Communion, 
Fr. jun. l. de Eccles. M. Hooker Eccles. pol. Du Plesses. l. de Eccl jacob. Armin. disput. D. Reynolds Thes. D. Field of the Ch. Revel. 3. & 2.  and yet not you ours. Yet though their corruptions be incomparably more, we have not dared to separate so far from them, as you have done from us for less: Still we hold them even a visible Church, but unsound, sick, dying; sick not of a consumption only, but of a leprosy or plague (so is the Papacy to the Church) diseases, not more deadly than infectious. If they be not rather in Sardies' taking; of whom the spirit of God saith, Thou hast a name that thou livest, but thou art dead; and yet in the next words bids them awake, and strengthen the things which are ready to die. And though our judgement and practice have forsaken their erroneous doctrines and service, yet our charity (if you take that former distinction) hath not utterly forsaken and condemned their persons. This is not our coolness, but equality: your reprobation of us for them, hath not more zeal then headstrong uncharitableness.   

SECTION. XXIIII  
The Separation made by our holy Martyrs.  
But how could you without blushing once name Cranmer, 
Sep.  Latimer, 
And were not Luther, Zuingli● Cranmer, Latimer and the rest begot to the Lord in the womb of the Romish Church, did they not receive the knowledge of his truth when they stood actual members of it? whom notwithstanding afterwards they forsook, and that justly for her fornications.  and those other holy-Martyres, which have been so oft objected to the conviction of your schism? Those Saints so forsook the Romish Church, as we have done, died witnesses of God's truth in that Church, from which you are separated: Lived, Preached, governed, shed their blood in the communion of the Church of England which you disclaim and condemn as no Church of God, as merely Antichristian: Either of necessity they were no Martyrs, yea no Christians, or else your separations and censures of us are wicked. Choose whether you will; They were in the same case with us; we are in the same case with them: no difference but in time: either their blood will be upon your heads, or your own: This Church had then the same constitution, the same confusion, the same worship, the same Ministry, the same government (which you brand with Antichristianisme) swayed by the holy hands of these men of God; condemn them, or allow us. For their separation: They found many main errors of doctrine in the Church of Rome (in the Papacy nothing but errors) worth dying for: show us one such in ours, and we will not only approve your separation, but imitate it.   

SECTION. XXV.  
What separation England hath made.  
THE Church of England doth not now wash her hands of Babylonish abominations, 
Sep.  but rather shows they are clean. 
But here in the name of the Church of England, you wash your hands of all Babylonish abominations, which you pretend you have forsaken, and her for, and with them. And in this regard you speak thus: The Reformation you have made of the many and main corruptions of the Romish Ch. we do ingenuously acknowledge, and de● withal embrace with you all the truths which to our knowledge you have received in stead of them▪ But Rome was not built all in a day. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hierom. Apol. advers. Ruffi. 1. l. 1. ●tissa est mihi ●audatio tua, id est accusatio mea. Bonum ex integra natura, malum ex singulari defectu.  Would God they were no more foul with your slander then her own Antichristianisme. Here will be found not pretences but proofs of our forsaking Babylon; of your forsaking us, not so much as well-coloured pretences: You begin to be ingenuous; while you confess a reformation in the Church of England: not of some corruptions, but many, and those many not sleight, but main.  
The gifts of adversaries are thankless: As Ierom said of his Ruffinus, so may we of you, that you wrong us with praises: This is no more praise than your next page gives to Antichrist himself. Leave out Many, and though your commendations be more uncertain, we shall accept it: so your indefinite proposition shall sound to us as general▪ That we have reform the main corruptions of the Romish Church: None therefore remain upon us; but sleight and superficial blemishes, so you have forsaken a Church of a foul skin, but of a sound heart, for want of beauty, not of truth.  
But you say many, not All, that if you can pick a quarrel with one, you might reject all: yet show us that one main and substantial error, which we have not reform: and you do not more embrace those truths with us which we have received, than we will condemn that falsehood which you have rejected: and embrace the truth of that Separation which you have practised.  
The degrees whereby that strumpet of Babylon got on Horseback you have learned of us, 
Sep.  who have both learned and taught, 
The mystery of iniquity did advance itself by degrees, and as the rise was, so must the fall be. That man of sin, and lawless man, must languish and die away of a consumption. 2. Thes. 2 8. And what though many of the highest Towers of Babel, and of the strongest Pillars also be demolished, & pulled down, yet may the building stand still, though tottering to and fro (as it doth) and only underpropped and upheld with the shoulder and arm of flesh, without which in a very moment it would fall flat upon, and lie level with the earth.  that as Christ came not abruptly into the world, but with many presages and prefigurations (The day was long dawning ere this Sun arose). so his adversary (that Antichrist) breaks not suddenly upon the Church, but comes with much preparation, and long expectance: and as his rise, so his fall must be gradual, and leisurely: Why say you then, that the whole Church every where must at once utterly fall off from that Church where that man of sin sitteth? His fall depends on the fall of others, or rather their rising from under him: If neither of these must be sudden, why is your haste? But this must not be, yet aught: as there must be heresies, yet there ought not: It is one thing what God hath secretly decreed, another what must be desired of us: If we could pull that Harlot from her seat, and put her to Iezebels death, it were happy: Have we not endeavoured it? What speak you of the highest Towers, and strongest pillars, or tottering remainders of Babylon: we show you all her roofs bare, her walls razed, her vaults diged up, her monuments defaced, her altars sacrificed to desolation: Shortly all her buildings demolished, not a stone upon a stone save in rude heaps, to tell that here once was Babylon: Your strife goes about to build again that her tower of confusion. God divides your languages: It will be well, if yet you build not more than we have reserved.   

SECTION. XXVI.  
The main grounds of separation.  
YOU will now be free both in your profession and gift, 
Bar. & Gr. ag. Giff. Confer. & Eam. passim, Pe●●y in his exa.  You give us to have renounced many false Doctrines in Popery: and to have embraced so many truths: We take it until more: 
Sep.  You profess where you stick, 
You have renounced many false Doctrines in Popery, and in their places embraced the truth.  what you mislike: In those four famous heads, which you have learned by heart from all your predecessors: An hateful Prelacy, A devised Ministry, a confused and profane communion, and lastly the intermixture of grievous errors.  
What if this truth were taught under an hateful Prelacy? 
Exod. 1. 2. 3. etc. jer. 20. 1.  Suppose it were so? Must I not embrace the truth because I hate the Prelacy? 
jer. 5. ult. But what if this truth be taught under the same hateful Prelacy, in the same devised office of Ministry: and confused communion of the profane multitude, and that mingled with many grievous errors.  What if Israel live under the hateful Egyptians? What if jeremy live under hateful Pashur? What if the jews live under an hateful Priesthood? What if the disciples live under hateful Scribes? What are others persons to my profession. If I may be freely allowed to be a true professed Christian, what care I under whose hands? But why is our Prelacy hateful? Actively to you, or passively from you? In that it hates you? Would God you were not more your own enemies: Or rather because you hate it? Your hatred is neither any news, nor pain: Who or what of ours is not hateful to you? Our Churches, Bells, Clothes, Sacraments, Preachings, Prayers, Sing, Catechisms, Courts, Meetings, Burials, Marriages: It is marvel that our air infects not: and that our heaven and earth (as Optatus said of the Donatists) escape your hatred: Not the forwardest of our Preachers (as you term them) have found any other entertainment; 
john's. Pres. to his 7. Reas.  no enemy could be more spiteful, I speak it to your shame. Rome itself in divers controversary discourses hath bewrayed less gall, than Amsterdam: The better they are to others, 
john's. 7. Reas. p. 66.  you profess they are the worse: yea would to God that of Paul were not verified of you: 
Tit. 3. 4.  hateful, and hating one another: But we have learned, that of wise Christians not the measure of hatred should be respected, 
Psal. 69. 4.  but the desert: David is hatred for no cause,: Michaiah for a good cause: Your causes shall be examined in their places: onwards it were happy if you hated your own sins more, and peace less: our prelacy would trouble you less, and you the Church.   

SECTION. XXVII.  
The truth and warrant of the Ministry of England.  
FOr our devised office of Ministry, you have given it a true title. 
Mat 28. 19  It was devised indeed by our Saviour when he said, 
Eph. 4. 11.  go teach all Nations and baptize; and performed in continuance when he gave some to be Pastors and Teachers; 
2 Tim. 2. 2.  and not only the office of Ministry in general, 
1, Tim. 3. 1.  but ours whom he hath made both able to teach, 
Act. 13.  and desirous, separated us for this cause to the work, 
1. Tim. 3. 9  upon due trial admitted us, 
1. Tim. 5. 22.  ordained us by imposition of hands of the Eldership, 
2 Tim. 2. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  and prayer, directed us in the right division of the word, committed a charge to us; followed our Ministry with power, and blessed our labours with gracious success, even in the hearts of those whose tongues are thus busy to deny the truth of our vocation: 
Discourse of the Trouble & excem. at Amst. Certain Arg. ag the Com. with the Minist. of England.  Behold here the devised Office of ●our Ministry: What can you devise against this? Your Pastor, who (as his brother writes) hopes to work wonders by his Logical skill, hath killed us with seven Arguments, which he professeth the quintessence of his own, and penry's extractions, whereto your Doctor refers us as absolute. I would it were not tedious or worth a Readers labour to see them scanned. 
Counterpoys.  I protest before, God and the world, I never read more gross stuff so boldly and peremptorily faced out: so full of Tautologies and beggings of the Question never to be yielded. Let me yet mention the main heads of them, and for the rest be sorry that I may not be endless.  
To prove therefore that no communion may be had with the Ministry of the Church of England, he uses these seven Demonstrations First, Because it is not that Ministry which Christ gave, and set in his Church: Secondly, Because it is the ministery of antichrist's Apostasy: Thirdly, Because none can communicate with the ministry of England, but he worships the beasts Image, and yieldeth spiritual subjection to Antichrist: Fourthly, Because this ministry deriveth not their power and functions from Christ: Fiftly, Because they minister the holy things of God by virtue of a false spiritual calling: Sixthly, Because i● is a strange ministry, not appointed by God in his word: Seventhly, Because it is not from heaven, but from men.  
Now I beseech thee Christian Reader, judge whether that which this man was wont so oft to object to his brother (a cracked brain) appear not plainly in this goodly equipage of reasons, for what is all this but one, and the same thing tumbled seven times over? which yet with seven thousand times babbling shall never be the more probable. That our ministry was not given and set in the Church by Christ, but Antichristian, what is it else to be from men, to be strange, to be a false spiritual calling, not to be derived from Christ, to worship the Image of the beast? So this great Challenger that hath abridged his nine Arguments to seven, might aswell have abridged his seven to one and a half. Here would have been as much substance, but less glory: As for his main defence: First, we may not either have, or expect now in the Church that ministry which Christ set: Where are our Apostles, prophets, Evangelists? If we must always look for the very same administration of the Church which our Saviour left, why do we not challenge these extraordinary functions? Do we not rather think, since it pleased him to begin with those Offices which should not continue, that herein he purposely intended to teach us, that if we have the same heavenly business done we should not be curious in the circumstances of the persons: But for those ordinary callings of Pastors and Doctors (intended to perpetuity) with what forehead can he deny them to be in our Church? How many have we that conscionably teach and feed, or rather feed by teaching? Call them what you please, Superintendents (that is) Bishops, Prelates, Priests, Lecturers, Parsons, Vicars, etc. If they preach Christ truly, upon true inward abilities, upon a sufficient (if not perfect) outward vocation: such a one (let all Histories witness) for the substance, as hath been ever in the Church since the Apostles times: they are Pastors and Doctors allowed by Christ: 
Vbires convenit quis non verba contemnat,? August. de Ordin. 2.  We stand not upon circumstances and appendances of the fashions of ordination, manner of choice, attire, titles, maintenance: but if for substance these be not true Pastors and Doctors Christ had never any in his Church, since the Apostles left the earth. All the difficulty is in our outward calling: Let the Reader grant our grave and learned Bishops to be but Christians, and this will easily be evinced lawful, even by their rules: For, if with them every plebeian artificer hath power to elect and ordain by virtue of his Christian profession (the act of the worthiest standing for all) how can they deny this right to persons qualified (besides common graces) with wisdom, 
Brow. state of Christians.  learning, experience, authority)? Either their Bishopric makes them no Christians (a position which of all the world, besides this Sect, would be hissed at) or else their hands imposed are thus far (by their rules of Separatists) effectual. Now your best course is (like to an Hare that runs back from whence she was started) to fly to your first hold: No Church, therefore no Ministry: So now, not the Church hath devised the Ministry, but the Ministry hath devised the Church: I follow you not in that idle Circle: Thence you have been hunted already: But now, since I have given account of ours: I pray you tell me seriously, Who devised your Office of Ministry? I dare say, not Christ, not his Apostles, not their Successors: What Church ever in the world can be produced (unless in case of extremity for one turn) whose conspiring multitude made themselves ministers at pleasure? what rule of Christ prescribes it? What Reformed Church ever did, or doth practise it? What example warrants it? where have the inferiors laid hands upon their Superiors? What Congregation of Christendom in all records afforded you the necessary pattern of an unteaching Pastor, or an unfeeding Teacher?  
It is an old policy of the faulty to complain first: Certainly there was never Popish Legend a more errand devise of man then some parts of this ministry of yours, so much gloried in for sincere correspondence to the first institution.   

SECTION. XXVIII.  
Confused Communion of the profane.  
YOUR scornful exception at the confused communion of the profane multitude savours strong of a Pharisee, who thought it sin to converse (cum terrae filijs) the base vulgar, 
Perplexae sunt istae duae (initates in hoc seculo invicemque permixtae donec ultimo iudicto dirimantur.  and whose very Phylacteries did say, Touch me not, for I am cleaner than thou. This multitude is profane (you say) and this communion confused: If some be profane, yet not all, for than could be no confusion in the mixture: If some be not profane, 
Aug. de Civit. d. l. 1. 33.  why do you not love them as much as you hate the other? If all main truths be taught amongst some godly, some profane: why will you more shun those profane, then cleave to those truths, and those godly? If you have duly admonished him, and detested and bewailed his sin; what is another man's profaneness to you? If profaneness be not punished, or confusion be tolerated, it is their sin, 
Eze. 18. 20. Orig.  whom it concerneth to redress them: 
unusquisque propter proprium peccatum morietur, in proprid iusticiâ vivet, etc.  If the Officers sin, must we run from the Church? It is a famous and pregnant protestation of God by Ezechiell: The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. And if the father's sour Grapes cannot hurt the children's teeth, 
Fr. john's. Artic. ag. the Dutch & Fr.  how much less shall the neighbours? 
Answ. ag. Brough ton.  But whither will you run from this communion of the profane? The same fault you find with the Dutch and French; 
Discover. of Brown.  yea in your own. How well you have avoided it in your separation, 
Troubles and excom. at Amst. Charact. pres. Cypr. Ep. 2.  let Master White, George johnson, Master Smith be sufficient witnesses, whose plentiful reports of your known uncleannesses, 
jidem in publico accusatores in occulto rei, in semetipsos censores pariter & nocentes: Damnant foris, quod intus operantur,  smothered mischiefs, malicious proceedings, corrupt pack, communicating with known offenders, bolstering of sins, and willing connivences, as they are shameful to relate, so might well have stopped your mouth from excepting at our confused Communion of the profane.   

SECTION. XXIX.  
Our Errors intermingled with Truth.  
HOw many and grievous errors are mingled with our Truths shall appear sufficiently in the sequel; If any want, 
●arr. Conser. with M. Hutchins. etc. & D. ●ndr.  let it be the fault of the accuser, it is enough for the Church of Amsterdam to have no errors. But ours are grievous: Name them, that our shame may be equal to your grief: 
Sep.  So many they are, 
Shall some general truth's (yea though few of them in the particulars may be fondly practised) sweeten and sanctify the other errors? doth not one heresy make an heretic, and doth not a little leaven, whether in Doctrine or manners leaven the whole lump? 1. Cor. 5. 6. Gal. 5 9 Hag. 2 13. If Antichrist held not many truths, wherewith should he countenance so many forgeries, or how could his work be a mystery of iniquity? which in Rome is more gross, and palpable, but in England spun with a finer thread, and so more hardly discovered. But to wade no further in universalities; we will take a little time to examine such particulars, as you yourself have picked out for your most advantage, to see whether you be so clear of Babel's Towers in your own evidence, as you bear the world in hand. Inquir. into M. white p. 35. Mat. 13. 33.  and so grievous that your Martyr, when he was urged to instance, could find none but our opinion concerning Christ's descent into hell; and except he had overreached, not that. Call you our Doctrines some general truths? Look into our Confessions, Apologies, Articles, and compare them with any, with all other Churches, and if you find a more particular, found, Christian, absolute profession of all fundamental truths in any Church since Christ ascended into heaven, renounce us, as you do, & we will separate unto you: But these truths are not sound practised: Let your Pastor teach you, that if errors of practice should be stood upon, there could be no true Church upon earth: Pull out your own beam first: we willingly yield this to be one of your truths, that no truth can sanctify error: That one heresy makes an Heretic: but learn withal, that every error doth not pollute all truths: That there is hay and stubble which may burn, yet both the foundation stand, and the builder be saved: Such is ours at the worst, why do you condemn where God will save? No Scripture is more worn with your tongues and pens, then that of the leaven. 1. Cor. 5. 6. If you would compare Christ's leaven with Paul's, you should satisfy yourself. Christ says the kingdom of heaven is as leaven; Paul says gross sin is leaven: Both leavens the whole lump: neither may be taken precisely, but in resemblance: not of equality, (as he said well) but of quality: For notwithstanding the leaven of the kingdom, 
M. Bredwell.  some part you grant is unsanctified; So notwithstanding the leaven of sin, some (which have striven against it to their utmost) are not soured: The leavening in both places must extend only to whom it is intended: the subjects of regeneration in the one; the partners of sin in the other: So our Saviour saith, Ye are the salt of the earth; Yet too much of the earth is unseasoned: The truth of the effect must be regarded in these speeches not the quantity: It was enough for Saint Paul to show them by this similitude, 
Hierom. In hoc Ignoratis, quia malo exemplo possunt plurimi interire? Sed & per unius delictum in omne populum Indaeorum iram dei legimus adue nisse.  that gross sins where they are tolerated have a power to infect others: whether it be (as Hierome interprets it) by ill example, or by procurement of judgements: and thereupon the incestuous must be cast out: All this tends to the excommunicating of the evil, not to the separating of the good: Did ever Paul say, if the incestuous be not cast out, separate from the Church. Show us this, and we are yours: Else it is a shame for you that you are not ours: If Antichrist hold many truths, and we but many, we must needs be proud of your praises: We hold all his truths, and have showed you, how we hate all his forgeries, no less than you hate us: Yet the mystery of iniquity is still spun in the Church of England; but with a finer thread: So fine that the very eyes of your malice cannot see it, yet none of our least motes have escaped you: Thanks be to our good God, we have the great mystery of godliness so fairly and happily spun amongst us, 
1. Tim. 3. 16.  as all, but you, bless God with us, and for us: As soon shall you find charity and peace in your English Church, as heresy in our Church of England.   

SECTION. XXX.  
Whether our Prelacy be Antichristian.  
TO the particular instances: 
Sep.  I ask where are the proud towers of their Universal Hierarchy: 
Where (say you) are those proud towers of their Universal Hierarchy?  You answer roundly: One in Lambeth, another in Fulham, etc. What Universal? Did ever any of our Prelates challenge all the world as his Diocese? Is this simplicity, 
One in Lambeth, another in Fulham, and wheresoever a pontifical: Prelate is, or his Chancellor, Commissary, or other subordinate, there is a Tower of Babel unruinated. To this end I desire to know of you whether the office of archbishops, Bishops, and the rest of that rank, were not parts of that accursed Hierarchy in queen Mary's days, and members of that man of sin? If they were then as shoulders and arms under that head the Pope, and over the inferior members; and have now the same Ecclesiastical jurisdiction derived and continued upon them, whereof they were possessed in the time of Popery (as it is plain they have by the first Parliament of queen Elizabeth) Why are they not still members of that body, though the head the Pope be cut off? 7. Arg. 1. Answ. Counterpoys.  or malice? If your Pastor tell us that as well a world as a Province, Let me return it; If he may be Pastor over a Parlour full: Why not of a City: And if of a City, why not of a Nation? But these you will prove unruinated Towers of that Babel: You ask therefore whether the office of Archbishops, Bishops, and the rest of that rank, were not in Queen Mary's days, parts of that accursed Hierarchy, and members of that man of sin. Doubtless they were: Who can deny it? But now (say you) they have the same Ecclesiastical jurisdiction continued: This is your miserable Sophistry: Those Popish archbishops, and Bishops and Clergy were members of Antichrist; not as Church-governors, but as Popish: While they swore subjection to him, while they defended him, whiles they worshipped him above all that is called God, and extorted this homage from others, how could they be other but limbs of that man of sin: shall others therefore which defy him, resist, trample upon him, spend their lives and labours in oppugnation of him be necessarily in the same case, because in the same room? Let me help your Anabaptists with a sound Argument: The Princes, Peers and Magistrates of the land in Queen Mary's days were shoulders and arms of Antichrist; their calling is still the same; therefore now they are such: Your Master Smith upon no other ground disclaimeth Infant's Baptism, crying out that this is the main relic of Antichristianisme. 
Character of the beast ag. R. Clifton.  But see how like a wise Master you confute yourself: They are still members of the body, though the head (the Pope) be cut off: The head is Antichrist, therefore the body without the head is no part of Antichrist: He that is without the head Christ, is no member of Christ; so contrarily: I hear you say, the very jurisdiction and office is here Antichristian, not the abuse: What? in them, and not in all Bishops since, and in the Apostles times? Alas, who are you that you should oppose all Churches & times? ignorance of Church-story, & not distinguishing betwixt substances and appendances, personal abuses, and callings, hath led you to this error: Yet since you have reckoned up so many Popes, let me help you with more: Was there not one in Lambeth when Doctor Cranmer was there? One in Fulham when Ridly was there: 
archdeacon.  One in Worcester when Latimer was there? One at Winchester when Philpot was there? We will go higher; Was not Hilarius at Arles, 
Beatissimus Papa passion in Epist.  Paulinus at Nola. Primasius at Utica, Eucherius at Lions, Cyrill at Alexandria, Chrysostome at Constantinople, 
Ignat. ad Trallian. Euseb. l. 3.  Augustine at Hippo, Ambrose at Milan? What should I be infinite? Was not Cyprian at Carthage? Euodius and after him Ignatius in S. john's time at Antioch, Polycarpus at Smyrna, Philip at Caesarea, james and Simeon and Cleophas at Jerusalem, 
Ex Euseb. Hier. Catalogue script. Epiph. ●nio, etc. Cal. Instit l. 4. Hieron. Euagrio Heming. Potest. Eccles. clas. 3. c. 10.  and (by much consent of Antiquity) Titus in Crete, Timothy at Ephesus, Mark at Alexandria: yea to be short, was there not every where in all ages, an allowed superiority of Church-governors under this title? Look into the frequent Subscriptions of all Counsels, and their Canons? Look into the Registers of all times, 
Hinc Ecclesia purior secuta tempora Apostolorum, fecit alios Patriarchas, quorum erat curare ut Episcupi cuiusque d●ocescos rite eligerentur, ut suum munus Episcopi singuli probe administrarent etc. Arist. Pol. 7. Potentia divitiarum, & pauper tatis humilitas vel humiliorem vel inferiorem Episcopum non facit.  and find yourself answered: Let reverend Calvin be our Advocate: I would desire no other words to confute you, but his: He shall tell you that even in the Primitive Church, the Presbyters chose one out of their number in every City, whom they titled their Bishop, lest dissension should arise from equality. Let Hemingius teach you that this was the practice of the purest Church: Thus it was ever, and if Princes have pleased to annex either large maintenances, or styles of higher dignity, and respect unto these, do their additions annihilate them? Hath their double honour made void their callings? Why more than extreme neediness? If Aristotle would not allow a Priest to be a tradesman, yet Paul could yield to homely Tentmaking, if your Elders grow rich or noble, 
Hieron. evagr.  do they cease to be, or begin to be unlawful? But in how many volumes hath this point been fully discussed? I list not to glean after their full Carts.   

SECTION. XXXI.  
The judgement and practice of other Reformed Churches.  
FRom your own Verdict you descend to the testimonies of all reformed Churches: I blush to see so wilful a slander fall from the pen of a Christian. 
Sep.  That all Reformed Churches renounce our Prelacy as Antichristian, 
And so do all the Reformed Churches in the world (of whose testimony you boast so loud) renounce the Prelacy of England, as part of that Pseudo-Clergie, and Antichristian Hierarchy derived from Rome. Answ. Counterpoys. 3 Consid. Ps. 10. 7.  what one hath done it? Yea, what one foreign Divine of note, hath not given to our Clergy the right hand of fellowship? so far is it from this, that I. Alasco was the allowed Bishop of our first Reformed strangers in this land, so far that when your Doctor found himself urged (by M. Spr.) with a cloud of witnesses for our Church and ministry, as Bucer, Martyr, Fagius, Alasco, Calvin, Beza, Bullinger, Gualther, Simler, Zanchius, junius, Rollocus, and others, he had nothing to say for himself, but Though you come against us with Horsemen and Chariots, yet we will remember the name of the Lord our God, and turns it off with the accusation of a Popish plea, and reference to the practice of the Reformed: And if therefore they have so renounced it, because their practice receives it not: Why like a true makebate do you not say, that our Churches have so renounced their Government? These sisters have learned to differ, and yet to love, and reverence each other: and in these cases to enjoy their own forms, without prescription of necessity, or censure. Let reverend Beza be the Trumpet of all the rest; who tells you that the Reformed English Churches continued, 
Bez. de ministr. evang. c. 18. Cited also by D. Down p. 29. Heming. judicat caeteros ministros suis Episcopis obtem perare debere. Potest. Eccles. c. 10.  upheld by the authority of Bishops, & Archbishopps, that they have had men of that rank, both famous martyrs, and worthy Pastors and Doctors: and lastly congratulates this blessing to our Church: or let Hemingius tell you the judgement of the Danish Church: judicat caeteros ministros etc. it judgeth saith he, that other ministers should obey their Bishops in all things, which make to the edification of the Church, etc. But what do I oppose any to his nameless, All? his own silence confutes him enough in my silence.   

SECTION. XXXII.  
Our Synods determination of things indifferent.  
THere was never a more idle and beggarly cavil then your next: your Christian Reader must needs think you hard driven for quarrels, 
Article. 21  when you are fain to fetch the Pope's infallibility out of our Synod, 
Sep.  whose flat decree it was of old: That even general Counsels may err, 
Infallibility of judgement. It seems the sacred (so called) Synod, assumeth little less unto herself in her determinations: otherwise, how dared she decree so absolutely as she doth touching things reputed indifferent, viz. that all men in all places must submit unto them without exception, or limitation. Except she could infallibly determine, that these her ceremonies thus absolutely imposed, should edify all men at all times, how dared she thus impose them? To exact obedience in and unto them, whether they offend or offend not, whether they edify or destroy, were intolerable presumption.  & have erred: But wherein doth our sacred Synod assume this infallibility, in her determinations? Wherhfore is a Synod, if not to determine? But, of things reputed indifferent? What else are subject to the constitutions of men? Good and evil are either directly, or by necessary sequel ordered by God: these are above human power. What have men to do, if not with things indifferent? All necessary things are determined by God indifferent by men from God, which are as so many particulars, extracts from the generals of God: These things (saith learned Calvin) are indifferent, and in the power of the Church: 
Obligatio fine coercione nalla. Reg. jur.  Either you must allow the Church this, or nothing. But these decrees are absolute, what laws can be without a command? 
Non iura dicenda sunt, etc. de Civitat. l. 19 Answ. to the Admon. p. 279. cited also by D. sparks. p. 14.  The law that ties not, is no law: No more than that (saith Austen) which ties us to evil. But for all men, and all times? How for all? For none (I hope) but our own, And why not for them? but without exception, and limitation: Do not thus wrong our Church: Our late Archbishopp (if it were not piacular for you to read aught of his) could have taught you in his public writings, these five limitations of enjoined ceremonies: First, that they be not against the word of God: 
Aug. Ep. 86.  Secondly, that justification or remission of sins be not attributed to them: 
In his enim rebus, de quibus nih●● certi statuit scriptura divina, mos populi Dei vel instituta maiorum pro lege tenenda sunt.  Thirdly, That the Church be not troubled with their multitude: Fourthly, that they be not decreed as necessary, and not to be changed: And lastly, that men be not so tied to them, but that by occasion they may be omitted so it be without offence and contempt, you see our limits: 
Li●ius Decad. 4. l. 4.  but your fear is in this last, contrary to his. He stands upon offence in omitting, you in using: As if it were a just offence to displease a beholder, 
Nulla lex satis commoda omnibus est, id▪ modo quaeritur, si maiori parti & in summa prodest.  no offence to displease and violate authority: What law could ever be made to offend none? Wise Cato might have taught you this, in Livy, that no law can be commodious to all: Those lips which preserve knowledge, must impart so much of it to their hearers, as to prevent their offence: Neither must lawgivers, ever foresee what constructions will be of their laws, but what ought to be: Those thin●● which your consistory imposes, may you keep them if you list? Is not the willing neglect of your own Parlor-decrees punished with excommunication? And now what is all this to infallibility? The sacred Synod determines these indifferent rites for decency and comeliness to be used of those, whom it concerns, therefore it arrogates to itself infallibility: A conclusion fit for a separatist.  
You stumble at the title of sacred: every straw lies in your way; your Calepine could have taught you ●hat houses, Castles, religious businesses, old age itself, 
Cum consedissent sancti & religiosi Episcopi. Bin. Tom. 1. p. 239. Sancta Synod. Carthagi. 4. sub Anastasio. 553. Sancta & Pacifica Synod Antiocben. 1. p. 420.  have this stile given them: And Virgil (vittasque resoluit, sacrati capitis) no Epithet is more ordinary to Councils and Synods: The reason whereof may be fetched from that inscription of the Elibertine Synod; of those nineteen Bishops is said: When the holy and religious Bishops were set: How few Counsels have not had this Title? To omit the late; The holy Synod of Carthage, under Anastasius: 
Sancta dei & Apostolica Synodus 413.  The holy and peaceable Synod at Antioch: The holy Synod of God and Apostolical, 
pervenit ad sanctam synodum can. Nic. 18. 309.  at Rome under julius. The holy and great Synod at Nice: And not to be endless: The holy Synod of Laodicea (though but provincial). What do these Idle exceptions argue but want of greater? 
Sancta synod. La●dicena. 288.    

SECTION. XXXIII.  
Sins sold in our Courts.  
SOme great men when they have done ill, outface their shame with enacting Laws to make their sins lawful. 
Sep.  While you thus charge our practice, you bewray your own: 
Dispensations with the laws of God and sins of men.  Who having separated from God's Church, 
To let pass your Ecclesiastical consistories wherein sins and absolutions from them, are as venal and saleable as at Rome. Is it not a law of the Eternal God, that the Ministers of the Gospel, the Bishops or Elders should be apt and able to teach? 1. Tim 3▪ 2. Tit. 1. 9 and is it not their grievous sin to be unapt hereunto. Esa 56. 10 11. And. yet who knownot that the Patrons amongst you present, that the Bishop's institute, the Archdeacon's induct, the Churces receive and the Laws both Civil and Ecclesiastical allow and justify Ministers unapt and v●able to teach. G. joh. Trou. and Exco. at Amste. Insufficiency & 〈◊〉 residency of Ministers.  devise slanders to colour your sin: We must be shameful, that you may be innocent: You load our Ecclesiastical consistories with a shameless reproach: far be it from us to justify any man's personal sins; yet it is safer sinning to the better part: Fie on these odious comparisons: sins as saleable as at Rome? who knows not that, to be the Mart of all the world? Perjuries, murders, treasons are there bought & sold: when ever in ours? The Pope's Coffers can easily confute you alone: What tell you us of these, let me tell you: Money is as fit an advocate in a consistory, as favour or malice: These, some of yours have complained of, as bitterly, as you of ours. As if we liked the abuses in Courts: as if corrupt executions of wholesome laws must be imputed to the Church, whose wrongs they are. No less heinous, nor more true is that which followeth. True Elders (not yours) should be indeed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: This we call for, as vehemently (not so tumultuously) as yourselves.  
That they should feed their flocks with word and doctrine, we require more than you: That Patrons present, 
Insufficiency & non residency of Ministers.  bishops institute, archdeacons induct some, which are unable, we grant and bewail: But that our Church-lawes justify them, 
Sep.  we deny, and you slander? 
Is it not a law of the eternal God that the Elders should feed the flock over which they are set, labouring amongst them in the word and doctrine? Act. 20. 28. 1. Pet: 5. 1. 2. and is it not sin to omit this duty?  For our law (if you know not) requires, that every one to be admitted to the Ministry, should understand the Articles of Religion, not only as they are compendiously set down in the Creed, but as they are at large in our book of Articles; neither understand them only, but be able to prove them sufficiently out of the scripture, and that not in English only, but in Latin also: This competency would prove him (for knowledge) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉: If this be not performed, blame the persons, clear the law. Profound Master Hooker tells you, that both arguments from light of nature, 
Can. 34.  laws, and statutes of Scripture, 
M. Hooker 5. b.  the Canons that are taken out of ancient Synods, 
Eccles. Pol.  the Decrees and constitutions of sincerest times, the sentences of all Antiquity, and in a word, every man's full consent and conscience, is against ignorance in them that have charge and cure of souls. And in the same book; Did any thing more aggravate the crime of jeroboams Apostasy, 
Pag. 26. 3.  then that he chose to have his Clergy the scum and refuse of his whole land: Let no man spare to te●l it them, they are not faithful towards God; that burden wilfully his Church, with such swarms of unworthy creatures: Neither is it long, since a zealous and learned Sermon dedicated to our present Lord archbishop by his own Chaplain, 
D. Down. of the office and dignity of the Mi●ist.  hath no less taxed this abuse, whether of insufficiency, or negligence (though with more discretion) then can be expected from your malicious pen: Learn henceforth not to diffuse crimes to the innocent.  
For the rest: 
Dispensations for pluralities.  your Baal in our dispensations for pluralities, would thus plead for himself: First he would bid you learn of your Doctor to distinguish of sins: 
Sep.  sins (saith he) are either controvertible, or manifest: 
Plead not for Baal. Your dispensations for Nonresidency & pluralities of Benefices, as for two, three, or more; yea tot quot, as many as a man will hau●e or can get are so many dispensations with the laws of God, and sins of men. These things are too impious to be defended, and too manifest to be denied. Counterpoys. p. 179.  if controvertible or doubtful, men ought to bear one with another's different judgement; if they do not, etc. they sin: such is this: if some be resolved, others doubt: and in whole volumes plead, whether convenience, or necessity: how could your charity compare these with sins evicted? Secondly, he would tell you that these dispensations are intended and directed, not against the offence of God, but the danger of human laws: not securing from sin, but from loss: But, for both these points of Nonresidence and insufficiency, if you sought not rather strife than satisfaction: his majesties speech in the Confer. at Hampton Court, might have stayed the course of your quarrellous pen: No reasonable mind, but would rest in that gracious and Royal determination. Lastly, Why look you not to your own Elders at home? 
Dist. 34. Can. lector.  even your handful hath not avoided this crime of Nonresidency: What wonder is it, 
Papa potest contra Apostolum dispensare. & Caus. 25. q. 1. Can. sunt quidam. Dispensatin evangelio etc. De concess. praebend. Tit. 8. Can. Proposuit Secundum plenitu● inem potestatis de iure possumus supra ius dispensare. & Glossa paulo insr. Papa contra Apostolum dispensat. etc. Sum. confer. p. 52. M. Whites' discou.  if our world of men have not escaped?   

SECTION. XXXIIII.  
Our loyalty to Princes cleared, theirs questioned.  
YOU that confess our wisdom and honesty, must now plead for your own: your hope is not more of us, than our fear of you. To depose Kings and dispose Kingdoms is a proud work: 
Bar. ag. Gyff. Inconst. of Brow. p. 113  you want power, but what is your will? For excommunication it is clear enough: While you fully hold that every private man hath as much power in this censure, as the Pastor; and that Princes must be equally subject with them to these their censures: Let any man now devise, if the Brownists could have a King, how that King could stand one day unexcommunicated? Or if this censure meddle only with his soul, not with his Sceptre: How more than credible is it, 
Ibid.  that some of your assemblies in Queen Elizabeth's days concluded, 
Inquir. into Th.  that she was not (even in our sense) supreme head of the Church, 
White.  neither had authority to make laws Ecclesiastical in the Church: 
Sep.  It is well if you will disclaim it: 
Disposition of Kingdoms and Deposition of Princes.  But you know your received position; That no one Church is superior to other: 
You are wiser and I hope honester than thus to attempt, though that received maxim amongst you No ceremony, no Bishop; no Bishop, no King; savours too strongly of that weed▪ but what though you be loyal to earthly Kings and their crowns, and Kingdoms, yet if you be Traitors and rebels against the King of his Church jesus Christ, and the sceptre of his Kingdom, not suffering him y his laws and officers to reign over you, but in stead of them do stoop to Antichrist in his offices and ordinances: shall your loyalty towards men excuse your treasons against the Lord? though you now cry never so loud we have no King, but Caesar, joh. 19 15. yet is there an other King, one jesus, which shall return, and pass a heavy doom upon the rebellious, Luc. 19 27. These enemies which would not have me reign over them, bring them and slay them before me.  No authority therefore can reverse this Decree; your will may do it: yea what better then rebellion appears in your next clause? While you accuse our loyalty to an earthly King, as treasonable to the King of the Church, Christ jesus: If our loyalty be a sin, where is yours? If we be traitors in our obedience: what do you make of him that commands it? Whether you would have us each man to play the Rex, and erect a new government, or whether you accuse us as rebels to Christ in obeying the old: 
P. 36.  God bless King james from such subjects. But whose is that so unsavoury weed; No Bishop, no King? Know you whom you accuse? let me show you your adversary; it is King james himself in his Hampton Conference: is there not now suspicion in the word? surely you had cause to fear that the King would prove no good subject: Belike, not to Christ: What do you else in the next, but proclaim his opposition to the King of KINGS? or ours in not opposing his? As if we might say with the Israelites. 
Es. 36. 13.  O Lord our God, other Lords besides thee have ruled us: If we would admit each of your Elders to be so many Kings in the Church, we should stoop under Christ's ordinances: Show us your Commission, and let it appear, whether we be enemies, or you usurpers; Alas, you both refuse the rule of his true Deputy, and set up false; Let this fearful doom of Christ light where it is most due: Even so let thine enemies perish O Lord.   

SECTION. XXXV.  
Errors of Free-will, etc. feigned upon the Church of England.  
Go on to slander: Even that which you say you will not speak, 
Sep.  you do speak with much spite and no truth: 
Parting stakes with God in conversion.  What hath our Church to do with errors of universal grace or free-will: Errors which her Articles do flatly oppose: 
Not to speak of the error of universal grace, and consequently, of free-will that groweth on apace amongst you, what do you else but put in for a part with God in conversion though not through freedom of will, yet in a devised Ministry, the means of conversion: it being the Lords peculiar as well to appoint the outward Ministry of conversion, as to give the inward grace.  what shamelessness is this? Is she guilty even of that which she condemns? if some few private judgements shall conceive, or bring forth an error, shall the whole Church do penance? would God that wicked and heretical Anabaptisme, did not more grow upon you then those errors upon us: you had more need to defend, then accuse: But see Christian Reader, how this man drags in crimes upon us, as Cacus did his Oxen: We do (forsooth) part stakes with God in our conversion: wherein? in a devised Ministry: the means of conversion;well fetch't about: There may be a Ministry without a conversion; and (êconuerso) There may be a conversion without a Ministry: Where now are the stakes parted? yet thus we partstakes (with the Apostle) that we are God's fellow-labourers in this great work: He hath separated us to it, & joined us with him in it; it is he (as we have proved) that hath devised our Ministry: yea yourself shall prove it: it is his peculiar to appoint the outward ministery, that gives the inward grace. But hath not God given inward grace, 
1. Cor. 3. 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  by our outward Ministry? Your hearts shall be our witnesses: What will follow therefore, but that our ministery is his peculiar appointment?   

SECTION. XXXVI.  
Kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper.  
OUR Kneeling you derive (like a good Herald) from the error of Transubstantiation: but to set down the descent of this pedigree; will trouble you: we do utterly deny it, and challenge your proof: 
De Consecr. d. 2. Ego Bereng. Apol.  How new a fiction Transubstantiation is, appears out of Berengaries' recantation to Pope Nicholas: 
Sep.  The error was then so young, it had not learned to speak; 
Where (say you) are those rotten heaps of Transubstantiating of bread?  show us the same novelty in our kneeling: Till of late men held not the bread to be God; of old they have held it sacred: This is the gesture of reverence in our prayer at the receipt, as Master Burgess well interpreted it, not of Idolatrous adoration of the bread. 
And where, say I, learned you your devout kneeling to or before the bread, but from that error of Transubstantiation? Yea what less can it insinuate, then either that, or some other the like Idolatrous conceit. If there were not something more in the bread and wine then in the water at Baptism, or in the word read or preached, Why should such solemn kneeling be so severely pressed at that time, rather than upon the other occasions: And well and truly have your own men affirmed that it were far less sin, and appearance of an Idolatry that is nothing so gross, to tie men in their prayers, to kneel before a Crucifix then before the bread and wine, and the reason followeth, for that, papists commit an Idolatry far▪ more gross and odious in worshipping the bread, then in worshipping any other of their Images or Idols whatsoever. Apol of the Min. of Lincoln. Dioc. part. 1. pag. 66.  This was most-what in the elevation: the abolishing whereof clears us of this imputation: you know we hate this conceit, why do you thus force wrongs upon the innocent? Neither are we alone in this use: The Church of Bohemia allows, and practices it: and why is this error less palpable in the wafers of Geneva? If the King should offer us his hand to kiss, we take it upon our kneees: how much more when the King of heaven gives us his son in these pledges? But if there were not something more than just reverence, why do we solemnly kneel at the Communion not at Baptism? Can you find no difference? In this (besides that there is both a more lively and feeling signification of the thing represented) we are the parties, but in the other, witnesses: This therefore I dare boldly say; that if your partner M. Smith should ever (which God forbid) persuade you to rebaptise, your fittest gesture (or any others at full age) would be to receive that Sacramental water, kneeling: How glad you are to take all scraps, that fall from any of ours for your advantage? would to God this observation of your malicious gatherings would make all our reverend brethren w●ary of their censures: Surely, no idolatry can be worse than that Popish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉. The Bread, and the Crucifix, strive for the higher place; if we should therefore be so tied to kneel before the bread, as they are tied to kneel before the Crucifix, their sentence were just: They adore the Crucifix, not we the bread; they pray to the Crucifix, not we to the bread, they direct their devotions (at the best) by the Crucifix to their Saviour, we do not so by the bread, we kneel no more to the bread, then to the Pulpit when we join our prayers with the Ministers: But our quarrel is not with them; you that can approve their judgements in dislike, might learn to follow them in approbation, and peaceable Communion with the Church: if there be a galled place you will be sure to light upon that, Your charity is good: whatsoever your wisdom be.   

SECTION. XXXVII.  
Whether our Ordinary and service-book, be made Idols by us.  
YET more Idolatry? 
Sep.  And which is more, New, and strange; 
Adoring of Images.  such (I dare say) as will never be found in the two first Commandments, 
To let pass your devout kneeling unto your Ordinary when you take the Oath of Canonical obedience, or receive absolution at his hands, which (as the main actions are religious) must needs be religious adoration, what is the adoring of your truly human (though called Divine) service-book in and by which you worship God, as the Papists do by their Images? If the Lord jesus in his testament have not commanded any such book, it is accursed and abominable if you think he have, show us the place where, that we may know it with you. or manifest unto us that ever the Apostles used themselves or commended to the Churches after them any such service-book. Was not the Lord in the Apostles time, and Apostolic Churches purely and perfectly worshipped, when the Officers of the Church in their ministration manifested the spririt of prayer which they had received according to the present necessities and occasions of the Church, before the least parcel of this patchery came into the world. And might not the Lord now be also purely and perfecty worshipped though this printed Image, with the painted and carved Images, were sent back to Rome, yea or cast to hell from whence both they and it came? Speak in yourself, might not the Lord be entirely worshipped with pure & holy worship, though none other book but the holy Scriptures were brought into the Church: If yea (as who can deny it that knows what the worship of God meaneth) what then doth your service-book there. The word of God is perfect and admitteth of none addition. Cursed be he that addeth to the word of the Lord, and cursed be that which is added, and so be your great Idol the Communion Book, though like nabuchadnezzar's Image some part of the matter be gold and silver, which is also so much the more detestable by how much it is the more highly advanced amongst you.  Behold here two new Idols, Our Ordinary, and our service-book, a speaking Idol, and a written Idol. Calecute hath one strange Deity the devil, Siberia many, whose people worship every day what they see first. Rome hath many merry Saints: but Saint Ordinary, and Saint service-book, were never heard of till your Canonization. In earnest, do you think we make our Ordinary an Idol? what else? You kneel devoutly to him when you receive either the Oath or absolution. This must needs be religious adoration: is there no remedy? You have twice kneeled to our Vicechauncellour, when you were admitted to your degree; you have oft kneeled to your parents, and Godfathers to receive a blessing, did you make Idols of them? the party to be ordained kneels under the hand of the presbytery: doth he religiously adore them? Of old they were wont to kiss the hands of these Bishops, so they did to Baal: God and our Superiors have had ever one and the same outward gesture: 
Paulus. in vitae Ambros.  Though here, not the Agent is so much regarded; as the action: if your Ordinary would have suffered you to have done this piece of Idolatry, you had never separated.  
But the true God-Bell and Dragon of England is the humane-divine-seruice-booke: Let us see what ashes or lumps of pitch this Daniel brings: We worship God in and by it, as Papists do by their Images: In deed we worship God in, and by the prayers contained in it: Why should we not? Tell me why is it more idolatry for a man to worship God in, and by a prayer read, or got by heart, then by a prayer conceived? I utter both, they are both mine, if the heart speak them both, feelingly and devoutly, where lies the Idol? In a conceived prayer, is it not possible for a man's thought to stray from his tongue? in a prayer learned by heart, or read, is it not possible for the heart to join with the tongue? If I pray therefore in spirit, and heartily utter my desires to God, whether in mine own words, or borrowed (and so made mine) what is the offence? But (say you) if the Lord jesus in his Testament have not commanded any such Book, it is accursed, and abominable: But say I: if the Lord jesus hath not any where forbidden such a book, it is not accursed nor abominable: Show us the place where, that we may know it with you: Nay, but I must show you where the Apostles used any such service-book: show you me, where the Apostles baptised in a Basin: or where they received women to the Lords table: 
Passag. twixt clifton an● Smith.  (for your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Cor. II. will not serve) show me that the Bible was distinguished into Chapters and verses in the Apostles time: 
AEgypti● ubi lautè epulati sunt, post caenam id faciunt.  show me that they ever celebrated the Sacrament of the Supper at any other time then evening, 
Socr. l. 5. 21.  as your Anabaptists now do: show me that they used one prayer before their Sermons always, another after, that they preached ever upon a Text: where they preached over a Table: or lastly, show me where the Apostles used that prayer which you made before your last prophecy; and a thousand such circumstances, What an idle plea is this from the apostolic times? And if I should tell you that Saint Peter celebrated with the Lords prayer, you will not believe it: 
Platia. initio.  yet you know the History. But let the Reader know that your quarrel is not against the matter, but against the book, not as they are prayers, but as stinted, or prescribed: Wherein, all the world besides yourselves are Idolaters: Behold all Churches that were, or are, are partners with us in this crime. Oh Idolatrous Geneva, and all French, Scottish, 
Calvin. Ep. ad Protect. Angl. Ep. 87.  Danish, Dutch Churches: All which both have their set prayers with us, and approve them. Quod ad formulam, etc. as concerning a form of prayers and rites Ecclesiastical (saith reverend Calvin): I do greatly allow that it should be set and certain, from which it should not be lawful for Pastors in their function to depart. judge now of the spirit of these bold controllers, that dare thus condemn all God's Churches, through the world as Idolatrous: but since you call for apostolic examples: did not the Apostle Paul use one set form of appreciations, of benedictions? What were these but lesser prayers? The quantity varies not the kind: Will you have yet ancienter precedents? The Priest was appointed of old to use a set form under the law, Num. 6. 23. so the people, Deut. 26. 3. 4, 5. etc. 15. Both of them a stinted Psalm for the Sabbath, Ps. 92. What saith your Doctor to these? Because the Lord (saith he) gave forms of prayers and Psalms, 
Answ. to the Minist. Counterp 237.  therefore the Prelates may: Can we think that jeroboam had so slender a reason for his Calves? Mark (good Reader) the shifts of these men: This aunswerer calls for examples, and will abide no stinting of prayers, because we show no patterns from Scripture: We do show patterns from Scripture, and now their Doctor saith, God appointed it to them of old, must we therefore do it? So, whether we bring examples or none, we are condemned: But Mast. Doctor, whom I beseech you should we follow, but God in his own services? If God have not appointed it, you cry out upon inventions: if God have appointed it, 〈…〉, we may not follow it: show then where 〈…〉 enjoined an ordinary service to himself, that was not ceremonial (as this plainly is not): which should not be a direction for us? But if stinting our prayers be a fault (for as yet you meddle not with our blasphemous 
Counterp 236.  Collects) it is well that the Lords prayer itself beareth us company, and is no small part of our Idolatry: 
Omnibus aricubus gr●gis (id est) Apostolis suis dedit morem orandi, dimit nob●s etc. Aug. Ep. 89.  Which, though it were given principally as a rule to our prayers, yet since the matter is so heavenly, a●d most wisely framed to the necessity of all Christian hearts, to deny that it may be used entirely in our saviours words, is no better than a fanatical curiousness: yield one and all; for if the matter be more divine, yet the stint is no less faulty: This is not the least part of our patchery: except you unrip this, the rest you cannot. But might not God be purely and perfectly worshipped without it? Tell me, Might not God be purely and perfectly worshipped without Churches, without houses, without garments, yea without hands or feet? In a word, could not God be purely worshipped, if you were not? Yet would you not seem a superfluous creature: speak in yourself: Might not God be entirely worshipped with pure and holy worship, though there were no other books in the world, but the Scripture? If yea, as who can deny it, that knows what the worship of God meaneth? What then do the Fathers and Doctors, and learned Interpreters? To the fire with all those curious arts and volumes, as your Predecessors called them: Yea let me put you in mind, that God was purely and perfectly worshipped by the Apostolic Church before ever 〈…〉 Testament was written: See therefore the idleness of your proofs; God may be served without a prescription of prayer, but (if all Reformed Churches in Christendom err not) better with it: The word of God is perfect, and admits no addition: Cursed were we, if we should add aught to it: Cursed were that which should be added: But cursed be they that take aught from it, and dare say, ye shall not pray thus, OUR FATHER, etc. Do we offer to make our prayers Canonical, do we obtrude them as parts of God's word? Why cavil you thus? Why doth the same prayer written add to the word, which spoken addeth not? Because conceived prayer is commanded, not the other: But first, not your particular prayer: Secondly, without mention either of conception, or memory, God commands us to pray in spirit, and with the heart: These circumstances only as they are deduced from his Generals, so are ours: But whence soever it please you to fetch our Book of public Prayer, from Rome or Hell; or to what Image soever you please to resemble it: Let moderate spirits hear what the precious jewel of England saith of it: We have come as near as we could to the Church of the Apostles, 
Apolog. p. 170. Accessimus etc.  etc. neither only have we framed our doctrine, but also our Sacraments, and the form of public prayers according to their Rites and Institutions. 
H Bar. ag. Gyff.  Let no jew now object Swines-flesh to us: He is no judicious man (that I may omit the mention of Cranmer, Buc●r Ridley, Taylor, etc. some of whose hands were in it, all whose voices were for it) with whom one jewel will not over-weigh ten thousand Separatists.   

SECTION. XXXVIII.  
Marriage not made a Sacrament by the Church of England.  
HOw did confirmation escape this number? how did Ordination? 
Sep.  it was your oversight, 
Multitudes of Sacraments. The number of sacraments seems greater amongst you by one at the least, than Christ hath left in his Testament, and that is Marriage; which howsoever you do not in express terms call a sacrament, (no more did Christ and the Apostles call Baptism and the supper sacraments,) yet do you in truth create it a sacrament, in the administration and use of it. There are the parties to be married and their marriage, representing Christ and his Church, and their spiritual Union: to which mystery, saith the Oracle of your service-book expressly, God hath consecrated them: there is the Ring hallowed by the said s●ruice-Booke, (whereon it must be laid) for the Element; there are the words of consecration; In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost; there is the place, the Church; the time usually, the Lords day; the Minister, the Parish-Priest. And being made as it is, a part of God's worship, and of the Ministers office, what is it if it be not a sacrament? It is no part of prayer, or preaching, and with a sacrament it hath the greatest consimilitude, but an Idol I am sure it is in the celebration of it, being made a Ministerial duty and part of God's worship, without warrant, call it by what name you will.  I fear, not your charity: some things seem, and are not: such is this your number of our Sacraments: you will needs have us take in marriage into this rank: why so? we do not (you confess) call it a Sacrament as the vulgar, misinterpreting Paul's Mysterium, Ep. 5. why should we not if we so esteemed it? wherefore serve names, but to denotate the nature of things? If we were not ashamed of the opinion, we could not be ashamed of the word: No more (say you) did Christ and his Apostles call Baptism and the Supper, Sacraments; but we do, and you with us: See now whether this clause do not confute your last: where hath Christ ever said, There are two Sacraments? Yet you dare say so: what is this but in your sense an addition to the word: yea, we say flatly, there are but two: yet we do (you say) in truth create it a Sacrament: how oft, and how resolutely hath our Church maintained against Rome, that none but Christ immediately can create Sacraments? If they had this advantage against us, how could we stand? How wrongful is this force, to fasten an opinion upon our Church which she hath condemned? But wherein stands this our creation? It is true, the parties to be married, and their marriage represent Christ, and his Church, and their spiritual union: Beware lest you strike God through our sides: what hath God's spirit said, either less, or other than this? Ephe. 5. 25. 26. 27. &. 32. Doth he not make Christ the husband, the Church his spouse? Doth he not from that sweet conjunction, and the effects of it: argue the dear respects that should be in marriage? Or what doth the Apostle allude elesewhere unto, when he says (as Moses of Eve) we are flesh of Christ's flesh, and bone of his bone? And how famous amongst the ancient is that resemblance of Eve taken out of Adam's side sleeping, to the Church taken out of Christ's side sleeping on the Cross? Since marriage therefore so clearly represents this mystery: and this use is holy and sacred: what error is it, to say that marriage is consecrated to this mystery? But what is the Element: the Ring; These things agree not; you had before made the two parties to be the matter of this Sacrament? What is the matter of the Sacrament, but the Element? If they be the matter, they are the Element; and so not the Ring; both cannot be; if you will make the two parties to be but the receivers; how doth all the mystery lie in their representation? Or if the Ring be the Element, than all the mystery must be in the Ring, not in the parties: Labour to be more perfect, ere you make any more new Sacraments: but this Ring is laid upon the service-book: why not? For readiness, not for holiness: Nay, but it is hallowed (you say) by the book: If it be a Sacramental Element, it rather hallows the book, than the book it: you are not mindful enough for this trade: But what exorcisms are used in this hallowing? Or who ever held it any other than a civil pledge of fidelity? Then follow the words of consecration: I pray you, what difference is there betwixt hallowing, and consecration? The Ring was hallowed before by the book; now it must be consecrated: How idly? by what words? In the name of the Father, etc. These words you know are spoken after the Ring is put on: was it ever heard of, that a Sacramental Element was consecrated after it was applied? see how ill your slanders are digested by you: The place is the Church, the time the Lords day, the minister is the actor, and is it not thus in all other reformed Churches aswell as ours. Behod, we are not alone: all Churches in the world (if this will do it) are guilty of three Sacraments: Tell me, would you not have marriage solemnized publicly? 
Br. state of Christians. 172.  You cannot mislike: though your founder seems to require nothing here but notice given to witnesses, and then to bed: Well, if public; you account it withal, a grave and weighty business: therefore such, as must be sanctified by public prayer: What place is fitter for public prayer than the Church? Who is fitter to offer up the public prayer, than the Minister? who should rather join the parties in marriage, than the public deputy of that God, who solemnly joined the first couple? who rather than he which in the name of God may best bless them? The prayers which accompany this solemnity are parts of God's worship, not the contract itself: This is a mixed action, therefore compounded of Ecclesiastical and civil: imposed on the Minister, not upon necessity but expedience: neither essential to him, but accidentally, annexed, for greater convenience. These two frivolous grounds have made your cavil either very simple, or very wilful.   

SECTION. XXXIX.  
Commutation of Penance in our Church.  
SEe if this man be not hard driven for accusations when he is fain to repeat over the very same crime, 
Sep.  which he largely urged before: 
Power of judulgences. Your Court of faculties from whence your dispensations and tolerations for non-residency, and plurality of Benefices are had▪ together with your commuting of penances and absolving one man for another. Take away this power from the Prelates & you main the beast in a limb.  All the world will know that you want variety, when you send in these twise-sodde Coleworts: Somewhat yet we find new, Commutation of Penance; Our Courts would tell you, that here is nothing dispensed with, but some ceremony of shame in the confession: which in the greater sort is exchanged (for a common benefit of the poor) into a pecuniary mulct; yet (say they) not so, as to abridge the Church of her satisfaction, by the confession of the offender: and if you grant the ceremony devised by them, why do you find fault that it is altered, or commuted by them? As for absolution, you have a spite at it, because you sought it, and were repulsed: If the censures be but their own (so you hold) why blame you the managing of them in what manne● seems best to the authors: This power is no more a limb of the Prelacy, than our Prelacy is that beast in the Revelation: and our Prelacy holds itself no more Saint john's beast, than it holds you Saint Paul's beast. Phil. 3. 2   

SECTION. XL.  
Oath ex officio.  
I Ask of auricular Confession; you send me to our High Commission Court: 
Sep.  these two are much alike: 
Necessity of Confessions. In your high Commission Court very absolute, where by the Oath Ex Officio men are constrained to accuse themselves of such things as whereof no man will or can accuse them; what necessity is laid upon men in this case, let your prison's witness D. Cousins his Apol.  But here is also very absolute necessity of confession: True; but as in a case of justice. not of strife to clear a truth, not to obtain absolution: to a bench of judges, not to a Priest's ear; Here are too many ghostly Fathers for an auricular Confession: But you will mistake; it is enough against us, that men are constrained in these Courts to confess against themselves: why name you these Courts only? Even in others also oaths are urged, not only (ex officio merclnario, but nobili): The honourablest Court of star-chamber gives an oath in a Criminal case to the Defendant; So doth the Chancery, & Court of Requests: Shortly to omit foreign examples how many instances have you of this like proceeding in the common laws of this land? But withal you might learn that no inquiry Ex officio may be thus made but upon good grounds, as fame, scandal, vehement presumption, etc. going before, and giving just cause of suspicion: Secondly, 
D. Andr. determ. de jure iurando 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  that this proceeding is not allowed in any case of crime, whereby the life, or limbs of the examined party, may be endangered: nor yet, where there is a just suspicion of future perjury upon such enforcement: 
Num. 5. 12.  Thus is the suspected wife urged to clear her honesty by oath: 
josh. 7. 19  Thus the Master of the house must clear his truth, 
1. Sam. 14 43.  Exod. 22. 8. Thus Achan and jonathan are urged to be their own accusers, 
G. john's. & M. Crud. Trouble at Amsterd p. 132.  though not by Oath: But if perhaps any sinister course be taken by any corrupt justicer in their proceedings: must this be imputed to the Church? Look you to your petty-Courts at home; 
Non potest quis in una causa ●●dem momento duas portare personas, ut in eodem judicio & accusator sit & index. Optat. Milevit. l. 7.  which some of your own have compared in these courses, not only to the Commission-Court of England, but to the Inquisition of Spain: See there your Pastor defending himself to be both an accuser and judge in the same cause: See their proceedings Ex Officio without Commission: and if your prisons cannot witness it, your excommunications may.   

SECTION. XLI.  
Holidays how observed in the Church of England.  
WE have not lost, but cast away the Idolatrous shrines of Saints: 
Sep.  their days we retain; theirs, 
profit of Pilgr●mages. Though you have lost the shrines of saints, yet you retain their days and those holy as the Lords day, and that with good profit to your spiritual carnal Courts, from such as profane them with the least & most lawful labour, notwithstanding the liberty of the six days labour, which the Lord hath given: & as much would the Masters of these Courts be stirred at the casting of these saints days out of the Calendar, as were the masters of the possessed maid, when the spirit of divination was cast out of her, Act. 16. 19  not for worship of them, which our Church condemneth, but partly for commemoration of their high deserts, and excellent examples: partly for distinction: indeed therefore God's days, not theirs: their praises redound to him: show us where we implore them, where we consecreate days to their service: The main end of Holidays is for the service of God, 
Socr. l. 5. c. 21.  and some, 
Est. 9 17.  as Socrates sets down of old (quo se a laborum contentione relaxent) for relaxation from labour: 
Nehem. 12. 27.  if such days may be appointed by the Church (as were the Holidays of Purim, 
1. Mac. 4 29.  of the dedication of the wall of jerusalem, 
joh. 10 23.  the dedication of the Temple) whose names should they rather bear (though but for mere distinction) than the blessed Apostles of Christ: 
August. Ep. 44.  But this is a colour only: 
Sc●as a Christianis Catholicis n●llum col● mortuorum, nihil demque ut numen adorari quod sit factum & conditum a Deo  for you equally condemn those days of Christ's birth, Ascension, Circumcision, Resurrection, Annunciation, which the Church hath beyond all memory celebrated: what then is our fault? We keep these holy as the Lords day: in the same manner, though not in the same degree: 
Quae toto orb terrarum, etc. sicuti quoque Do●●ini passio & resurrectio & in caelum ascensus & adventus spiritus sancti an niversaria solemnitate celebrantur. Aug. Ep. 118.  Indeed, we come to the Church, and worship the God of the Martyrs and Saints: is this yet our offence? No: but we abstain from our most lawful labour in them; True, yet not in conscience of the day, but in obedience to the Church: If the Church shall indict a solemn fast: do not you hold it contemptuous to spend that day in lawful labour; notwithstanding that liberty of the six days which God hath given? Why shall that be lawful in a case of dejection, which may not in praise and exultation? If you had not loved to cavil, you would rather have accepted the Apology, or excuse of our sister Churches in this behalf, 
Churches of Fr. & Flanders in Harm. confess. Th. Whites' Discover. p. 19  then aggravated these uncharitable pleas of your own: yet even in this your own Synagogue at Amsterdame (if we may believe your own) is not altogether guiltless: your hands are still and your shops shut upon festival days; But we accuse you not: would God this were your worst: The Masters of our Courts would tell you, that they would not care so much for this dispossession, as that it should be done by such conjurers as yourself.   

SECTION. XLII.  
Our approbation of an unlearned Ministry disproved.  
YOur want of quarrels makes you still run over the same complaints: 
Sep.  which if you redouble a thousand times will not become just, 
Constrained and approved ignorance.  may become tedious: God knows how far we are from approving an unleared Ministry: 
If an ignorant and unpreaching Ministry be approved amongst you, and the people constrained by all kind of violence to submit unto it, & therewith to rest (as what is more usual throughout the whole Kingdom) then let no modest man once open his mouth to deny that ignorance is constrained and approved amongst you. Confer. at Hampt.  The protestations of our gracious King, our Bishops, our greatest Patrons of conformity in their public writings, might make you ashamed of this bold assertion: we do not allow that it should be, we bewail that it will be: our number of Parishes compared with our number of Divines, will soon show, that either many Parishes must have none, or some Divines must have many Congregations, or too many Congregations must have scarce Divine-incumbents: Our Dread Sovereign hath promised a medicine for this disease: But withal tells you that jerusalem was not built all on a day. The violence you speak of is commonly in case of wilful contempt, not of honest and peaceable desire of further instruction, or in supposal of some tolerable ability in the ministry forsaken: we do heartily pray for labourers into this harvest: we do wish that all Israel could prophesy: we publish the Scriptures, we Preach, Catechize, Write, and (Lord thou knowest) how many of us▪ would do more, if we knew what more could be done, for the information of thy people, 
English service.  and remedy of this ignorance which this adversary reproves us to approve. 
Sep.   
We doubt not but the service said in our Parish-Churches, 
Unknown devotion.  is as good a service to God, 
If the service said or sung in the parish Church may be called devotion, then sure there is good store of unknown devotion, the greatest part in most parishes, neither knowing nor regarding what is said, nor wherefore.  as the extemporary devotions in your Parlours: But it is an unknown devotion, you say: Through whose fault? The Readers, or the Hearers, or the matter? Distinct reading you cannot deny to the most Parishes: the matter, is easy Prayers, and English Scriptures: if the hearers be regardless, or in some things dull of conceit, lay the fault from the service to the men: All yours are free from ignorance, free from wandering conceits: we annoy you not, some knowledge is no better than some ignorance, and carelessness is no worse than misregard.   

SECTION. XLIII.  
Penan●es enjoined in the Church of England.  
Coming now to the Vaults of Popery, I ask for their Penances and Purgatory; those Popish penances, 
Sep.  which presumptuous Confessors enjoined as satisfactory, 
What are your sheete-penances for Adultery, and all your purse-penances for all other sins? then which though some worse in popery, yet none more common. Sacco & cineri incubare, corpus fordibus obscurare, presbyteris advolui, & aris Dei adganiculari. tert. de p●●it.  and meritorious upon their bold absolutions: You send me to Sheet-penances and Purse-penances, the one, ceremonious corrections of shame, enjoined and adjoined to public confessions of uncleanness, for the abasing of the offender, and hate of the sin: such like, as the ancient Church thought good to use for this purpose. Hence they were appointed (as Tertullian speaketh) in sackcloth and ashes, to crave the prayers of the Church, to besmear their body with filthiness, to throw themselves down before God's minister, and Altar; not to mention other more hard, and perhaps, no less ancient Rites; and hence, were those five stations of the Penitent, whereby he was at last received into the body of his wont Communion: 
Can on. Greg. Neocaesar. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 etc.  The other, a pecuniary mulct imposed upon some (not all, you foully slander us) less heinous offences; as a penalty, not as a penance; I hope you deny not: Sodomy, Murder, Robbery, and (which you would not) theft itself, is more deeply avenged: But did ever any of ours urge either sheet or purse as the remedy of Purgatory, or enjoin them, to avoid those infernal pains? unless we do so, our penances are not Popish, and our answerer is idle.   

SECTION. XLIIII.  
The practices of the Church of England, concerning the Funerals of the dead.  
YOur next accusation is more ingeniously malicious; 
Sep.  our Doctrine you grant contrary to Purgatory: 
Touching Purgatory, though you deny the Doctrine of it and teach the contrary, yet how well your practice suits with it, let it be considered in these particulars. Your absolving of men dying excommunicate after they be dead, and before they may have Christian burial.  but you will fetch it out of our practice, that we may build that which we destroy: Let us therefore purge ourselves from your Purgatory: We absolve men dying Excommunicate; A rare practice, and which yet I have not lived to see: but if Lawmakers contemn rare occurrents, surely accusers do not: Once is too much of an evil: Mark then, Do we absolve his Soul after the departure? No, what hath the body to do with Purgatory? Yet for the body: do we by any absolution seek to quit it from sin? Nothing less, reason itself gives us that it is uncapable either of sin or pardon; To lie unburied or to be buried unseemly, is so much a punishment, that the Heathens objected it (though upon the havoc and fury of War) to the Christians: 
Aug. de Civitat. l. 1.  as an argument of God's neglect. All that authority can do to the dead Rebel, is to put his carcase to shame, and deny him the honour of seemly sepulture: 
Athenienses decreverunt ne siquis Se intersecisset sepeliretur in agro Attico. etc.  Thus doth the Church to those which will die in wilful contempt. Those Grecian Virgins that feared not death, were yet restrained with the fear of shame after death: it was a real not imaginary curse of jezabel. The dogs shall eat jezabel. Now the absolution (as you call it, by an unproper, but malicious name) is nothing else, but a liberty given by the Church (upon repentance signified of the fault of the late offender) of all those external rites of decent Funeral: Death itself is capable of inequality, and unseemliness: Suppose a just Excommunication: What reason is it, that he which in his life and death would be as a Pagan, should be as a Christian in his burial? 
Sep.  What is any, or all this to Purgatory.  
The next intimation of our Purgatory, 
Your Christian Burial in holy ground (if the party will be at the charges;) your ringing of hallowed bells for the soul: your singing the Corpses to the grave from the Church style; your praying over or for the dead especially in these words, That God would hasten his kingdom, that we with this our brother (though his life were never so wretched and death desperate) and all other departed in the true faith of thy holy name may have our perfect consummation both in body and soul.  is our Christian burial, in the place, in the manner: The place Holy ground, the Church, Church-yard, etc. The manner Ringing, Singing, Praying over the Corpse. Thus therefore you argue, we bury the body in the Church, or Churchyard, etc. therefore we hold a Purgatory of the Soul; a proof not less strange than the opinion: We do neither scorn the carcases of our friends, as the old Troglodytes: nor with the old Egyptians respect them more, than when they were informed with a living soul: But we keep a mean course betwixt both, using them as the remainders of dead men, yet as dead Christians: and as those which we hope one day to see glorious: 
Sleeping-places Caemiteria.  We have learned to call no place holy in itself (since the Temple) but some more holy in their use, 
Euseb. l. 7. c. 12.  than others. 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  The old (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) of the Christians, 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  wherein their bodies slept in peace, were not less esteemed of them, 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Splendid ssimae sepulturae tradidit. Eus. l. 7. c. 15 Curatio funeris, conditio sepulturae, pompa exequiarum, magis sunt vivorum solatia quam subsidia mortuorum.  than they are scorned of you. Galienus thought he did them a great favour (and so they took it) when he gave them the liberty not only of their Churches, but of their former burying-places. In the same book Eusebius commends Astyrius a noble Senator for his care, and cost of Marinus his burial. Of all these Rites of Funeral, and choice of place, we profess to hold with Augustine, that they are only the comforts of the living, 
Aug. de civit l. 1. c. 12.  not helps of the dead: yet as Origen also teacheth us, we have learned to honour a reasonable (much more a Christian) soul; 
Si enim paterna vestis & annulus anto char. est posteris, nullo modo ipsa spernenda sunt corpora. Aug de Civit. l. 1. c. 13.  and to commit the instrument or case of it honourably to the grave. All this might have taught our answerer, that we make account of an heaven, of a resurrection; not of a Purgatory: But we ring hallowed bells for the soul: Do not those bells hang in hallowed Steeples too? 
Orig. contr. Cels. l. 8.  and do we not ring them with hallowed ropes? 
Rationolem animam honorare didicimus, etc.  What fancy is this? If Papists were so fond of old: their folly and their bells (for the most part) are both out of date; we call them soule-bels, for that they signify the departure of the soul, not for that they help the passage of the soul. This is mere boyes-play: But we pray over, or for the dead; Do we not sing to him also? Pardon me, I must needs tell you, here is much spite, and little wit. To pray for the consummation of the glory of all Gods elect: What is it, but Thy Kingdom come? How vainly do you seek a knot in a rush, while you cavil at so holy a petition? Go and learn how much better it is, to call them our Brothers, which are not, in an harmless overweening, and over-hoping of charity: then to call them no brothers, which are in a proud and censorious uncharitableness: you cannot be content to tell an untruth, but you must face it out: Let any Reader judge how far our practice in this, hath dissented from our doctrine; would to God in nothing more: Yes (saith this good friend) in the most other things; our words profess, our deeds deny: at once you make us hypocrites, and yourselves pharisees. Let all the world know, that the English Church at Amsterdam professeth nothing which it practiseth not: we may not be so holy, or so happy.  
Generality is a notable shelter of untruth: 
Sep.  Many more, 
Your general doctrines and your particular practices agree in this, as in the most other things, like Harp and Harrow. In word you profess many truths, which in deed you deny. These and many more popish devices (by others at large discovered to the world) both for pomp and profit, are not only not razed and buried in the dust, but are advanced amongst you, above all that is called God.  you say, Popish devices, yet name none, No, you cannot. Advanced above all that is called God? surely this is a paradox of slanders: you meant at once to shame us with falsehood, and to appose us with Riddles: we say to the highest, whom have we in heaven but thee? and for earth, yourself have granted we give too much to Princes, (which are earthen Gods) and may come under Paul's (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉). Either name our Deity, or crave mercy for your wrong: certainly, though you have not remorse, yet you shall have shame.   

SECTION. XLV.  
The Churches still retained in England.  
THe Majesty of the Romish Petty-gods (I truly told you) was long agone with Mythra and Serapis, 
Sep.  exposed to the laughter of the vulgar: 
You are far from doing to the Romish Idols, as was done to the Egyptian Idols Mythra and Serapis, whole prie●●s were expelled their Ministry and Monuments exposed to utter scorn and desolation, their Temples demolished and razed to the very foundation.  you strain the comparison too far; yet we follow you: Their Priests were expelled: for (as your Doctor yieldeth) other Actors came upon the same Stage: others in religion, else it had been no change: Their Ministry and Monuments exposed to utter scorn: Their Masses, their oblations, their adorations, their invocations, their anoyling, their exorcizings, their shrift their absolutions, their Images, rood lofts, and whatsoever else of this kind: But the Temples of those old Heathens were demolished and razed: Here is the quarrel: ours stand still in their proud Majesty: Can you see no difference betwixt our Churches and their Temples? 
Socrat. Hist.  The very name itself (if at least you have understood it) Kirke or Church (which is nothing but an abbreviation of (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) the Lord's house) might have taught you, 
Eccles. l. 5. c. 16. 7.  that ours were dedicated to God, 
Bed. h●st. Eccl. l. 1. Cit Gregor. Ep. Aug suoc. 30. & Edilbe●toregi c. 32. Contra sibi etc. Sed & H●r●ticorū templa vastata a Constantino. Euseb. l. 3. c. 63.  and theirs to the Devil, in their false gods: Augustine answers you, as directly, as if he were in my room: The Gentiles (saith he) to their Gods erected Temples, 
Aug. de civit. l. 8 c. 27.  we not Temples unto our Martyrs, 
Hocker 5. b. c. 13 Id Aug. contr. Max●min.  as unto Gods, but memorials as unto dead men, whose spirits with God are still living: These then if they were abused by Popish Idolatry, 
Arian.  is there no way, 
Nun sitemplum etc.  but down with them, down with them to the ground? 
Optat. Mileuit●n lib. 6. I. avistis proculdubi● pallas, Iudicate quid de codic● bus secistis: Aut vtr●mque lauate aut, etc. S● quod tangit aspectus lavandum est, ut parietes. etc. Videmus rectum, videmus & coelum etc. haec a vobis lavari non possunt.  Well fare the Donatists yet, your old friends; they but washed the walls that were polluted by the Orthodox. By the same token that Optatus asks them, why they did not wash the books, which ours touched, and the heavens which they looked upon: What, are the very stones sinful? what can be done with them? The very earth where they should lie on heaps would be unclean: But not their pollution angers you more, than their proud Majesty: What house can be too good for the maker of all Things? As God is not affected with state, so is he not delighted in baseness. If the pomp of the Temple were ceremonial, yet it leaves this morality behind it, that God's house should be decent, and what if goodly? If we did put holiness in the stones, as you do uncleanness, it might be sin to be costly: Let me tell you, there may be as much pride in a clay wall as in a carved: Proud Majesty is better than proud baseness: The stone or clay will offend in neither, 
Athanas. Apol. Euseb. de vita Const.  we may in both: If you love Cottages, the ancient Christians with us, loved to have God's house stately, as appears by the example of that worthy Bishop of Alexandria, and that gracious Constantine, in whose days these sacred piles began to lift up their heads unto this envy height: 
Otho Fri●ing. l. ●. c. 3.  Take you your own choice, give us ours: let us neither repine, nor scorn at each other.   

SECTION. XLVI.  
The Founders and Furnitures of our Churches.  
ALl this while I feared you had been in Popish Idolatry, 
Sep.  now I find you in Heathenish: 

But your temples especially your Cathedral and mother Churches stand still in their proud Majesty possessed by Arch Bishops, and Lordbishops like the Flamens and Archssamins amongst the Gentiles, from whom they were derived Lumb. lib. 4. d●st. 24. Isid. l. 7. E●imol. cap 12 and furnished with all manner of pompous and superstitious monuments, as carved and painted Images, massing Copes and surplices, chanting and Organ-musicke, and many other glorious ornaments of the Romish Harlot, by which her Majesty is commended to, and admired by the vulgar, so far are you in these respects for being gone, or fl●d, yea or crept either, out of Babylon.  
Theuphilus Ep●s●. cum ●aeteras s●●tuas deorum confi●ngeret, v●am integram servari i●●sst. eamque in loco publico e●exit ut Gentiles tempore progrediente non inficiarentur se ●umsm●di D●us col●sse. 〈◊〉 Grammat● us hac dear valded scruciatus Dixit gravem plagam religioni Gr●corum inct●●●m, quod illa una statcia no● everteretur. Socrat. l. 5. c. 16.   These our Churches are still possessed by their Flamens, and Archflamins: I had thought none of our Temples had been so ancient: Certainly I find but one poor tuinous building, reported to have worn out this long tyranny of time: For the most, you might have read their age, and their Founders in open Records: But these were derived from those: surely, the Churches as much as the men: It is true, the Flamens, and what ever other heathen Priests, were put down, Christian Bishops were set up: Are these therefore derived from those? Christianity came in the room of judaism, was it therefore derived from it? Before you told us, that our Prelacy came from that Antichrist of Rome, now from the Flamens of the Heathen: Both no less, then either: If you cannot be true, yet learn to be constant. But what mean you to charge our Churches with carved and painted Images? It is well you write to those that know them; Why did you not say we bow our knees to them, and offer incense? perhaps you have espied, some old dusty statue in an obscure corner, covered over with Cobwebs, with half a face, and that miserably blemished, or perhaps half a Crucifix inverted in a Church-window, and these you surely noted for English Idols: no less dangerous glass you might have seen at Geneva, a Church that hates Idolatry, as much as you do us: What more? Massing copes and Surplices: some copes (if you will) more Surplices, no Massing: Search your Books again; you shall find Albes in the Mass, no Surplices: As for Organ-musicke, you should not have fetch't it from Rome, but from jerusalem: In the Reformed Church at Middleburgh, 
Sep.  you might have found this skirt of the Harlot: 
Now if you be thus▪ Babylonish where you repute yourselves most Syonlike, and thus confounded in your own evidence, what defence could you make in the things whereof an adversary would challenge you: If your light be darkness, how great is your darkness?  which yet you grant at least crept out of Babylon; judge now (Christian reader) of the weight of these grand exceptions: and see whether ten thousand such were able to make us no Church, and argue us not only in Babylon, but to be Babylon itself: Thus Babylonish we are to you, and thus Sion-like to God: every true Church is God's Zion: every Church that holds the foundation is true, according to that golden rule, Ephes. 2. 21. Every building that is coupled together in this corner stone, groweth unto an holy Temple in the Lord: No adversary either man or Devil can confound us, either in our evidences, or their own Challenges: we may be faulty, but we are true: And if the darkness you find in us be light, how great is our light?   

SECTION. XLVII.  
On what ground separation or Ceremonies was objected.  
HE that leaves the whole Church in a gross and wilful error, 
Sep.  is an heretic; he that leaves a particular Church for appendances is a schismatic: 

But for that not the separation but the cause makes the schismatic; and lest you should seem to speak evil of the thing you know not, and to condemn a cause unheard, you lay down in the next place the supposed cause of our separation, against which you deal as insufficiently. And that you pretend to be, none other than your consorting with the Papist in certain Ceremonies: touching which and our separation in regard of them thus you write.  
M. H. If you have taken but the least knowledge of the grounds of our judgement and practice, how dare you thus abuse both us and the reader, as if the only or chief ground of our separation were your popish ceremonies▪ but if you go only by guess having never so much as read over one treatise published in our defence, & yet stick not to pass this your censorious doom both upon us & it; I leave it to the reader to judge whether you have been more lavish of your censure or credit. Most unjust is the censure of a cause unknown, though in itself never so blameworthy, which nevertheless may be prais-worthy, for aught he knows that censures it.   such are you, both in the action, and cause: The act is yielded, the cause hath been in part scanned, shall be more: This I vainly pretended, to be our consorting in ceremonies with the papists: Behold here the ground of your loud challenge of my ignorance: Ignorance of your judgement and practice: Here is my abuse of you, of my Reader: and, how dared I? Good words (M. R.) What I have erred, I will confess: I have wronged you indeed: but in my charity: I knew the cause of Brownisme, but I knew not you: For (to say ingenuously) I had heard and hoped, that your case had been less desperate; My intelligence was, that in dislike of these ceremonies obtruded, and an hopelesnes of future liberty, you and your fellows had made a secession, rather than a separation from our Church; to a place, where you might have scope to profess, and opportunity to enjoy your own conceits: whence it was, that I termed you Ringleaders of the late separation, not followers of the first, and made your plea against our Church, imperfection, not falsehood: I hoped you, as not ours, so not theirs: not ours in place, so not quite theirs in peevish opinion: I knew it to be no new thing for men inclining to these fancies, to begin new Churches at Amsterdam, several from the rest: witness the letters of some (sometimes yours) cited by your own pastor: 
Inq into M. White.  I knew the former separation, and hated it; I hoped better of the latter separation and pitied it: My knowledge both of 
* Which upon the Lord's prayer hath confuted some positions of that sect.  Master Smith whom you followed, and yourself, would not let me think of you, as you deserved: How dared I charge you with that, which perhaps you might disavow? It was my charity therefore, that made my accusations easy: it is your uncharitableness that accuses them of ignorance. I knew why a Brownist is a true schismatic; I knew not you were so true a Brownist. But why then did I write? Taking your separation at best: I knew how justly I might take occasion by it to dissuade from separation: to others good, though not to yours: Now I know you better, or worse rather, I think you hear more: Forgive me my charity, and make the worst of my ignorance. I knew that this separation (which now I know yours) stands upon four grounds: as some beast upon four feet. First, God worshipped after a false manner, Secondly, Profane multitude received, 
Bar. &. Grecu●, passim. Pen●. Exam.  Thirdly, Antichristian Ministry imposed, Fourthly, subjection to Antichristian Government: The ceremonies are but as some one paw in every foot: yet if we extend the word to the largest use, dividing all Religion into ceremony, and substance: I may yet, and do aver, that your separation is merely grounded upon Ceremonies.   

SECTION. XLVIII.  
Estimation of Ceremonies, and subjection to the Prelates.  
AND touching ceremonies; you refused them formerly, but not long: and when you did refuse them, you knew not wherefore; for immediately before your suspension, 
Sep.  you acknowledged them to be things indifferent, 
And touching the ceremonies here spoken of, howsoever we have formerly refused them, submitting (as all others did and d●e) to the Prelates spiritual jurisdiction, (herein through ignorance straining at Gnats and swallowing Camels) yet are we verily persuaded of them, and so were before we separated, that they are but as leaves of that tree, and as badges of that man of sin, whereof the Pope is head, and the prelate's shoulders. And so we for our parts see no reason why any of the Bishops sworn servants (as all the Ministers in the Church of England are Canonically) should make nice to wear their Lords liveries. Which ceremonies notwithstanding we know well enough, howsoever you for advantage extenuate, and debase them unto us, to be advanced, and preferred in your Church, before the preaching of the Gospel.  and for matter of scandal by them you had not informed yourself (by your own confession) of a whole quarter of a year after: Why refused you then, but as the Poet made his plays, to please the people, or as Simon Magus was baptised for company? But refusing them, you submitted to the Prelates spiritual jurisdiction: there was your crime; this was your Camel, the other your Gnats: Did ever any Prelate challenge spiritual rule over your conscience?  
This they all appropriate to the great Bishop of our souls: and if other; grant them as your malice feigneth: what sin is it to be the subject of a Tyrant? now upon more grace, refusing the Prelacy, you have branded the ceremonies: So you did before your separation: Tell us how long was it after your suspension, and before your departure, that you could have been content (upon condition) to have worn this linen badge of your man of sin? Was not this your resolution, when you went from Norwich to Lincolnshire, after your suspension? Deny it not; my witnesses are too strong. But let us take you as you are: these ceremonies, though too vile for you, yet are good enough for our Ministers of England: As if you said, Lord, I thank thee, I am not as this Publican: Why, for our Ministers? Because, those are the Liveries, and these the sworn servants of the Antichristian Bishops: We have indeed sworn obedience to our Ordinary, in honest and lawful commandments, but service to Christ: But doth all obedience imply servitude? This obedience is, as to spiritual Fathers, not to Masters: yet so are we the servants of Christ, 
1. Cor. 4. 1. Hierom. in Ps. 44.  that we are ready to give our service to the least of his Saints: Thus vile will we be for God: 
Heming. Class. 3 Potest. Eccles. c. 10.  How much more to those whom God hath made (as Hierom says) Principes Ecclesiae: whiles they command for God: 
Vtcuique suus clerus & sua plebs in his quae Domini sunt, piè obsequerentur. Ignat. Epi. ad Tarsens.  What do we herein, but that which Epiphanius urged of old against Aerius; What but the same which Ignatius (that holy and old Martyr) requires (not once) of all Presbyters, and offers the engagement of his own soul for us in this act.  
As for our ceremonies, 
Sep.  aggravate them how you can for your advantage, 
It is much that they being not so much as Reed nor any part of the building (as you pretend) should overturn the best builders amongst you as they do.  they are but ceremonies to us: and such, as wherein we put no holiness, but order, decency, convenience: But they are preferred (you say) in our Church, before the preaching of the Gospel: A most wrongful untruth; We hold preaching an essential part of God's service, ceremonies none at all: The Gospel preached we hold the life and soul of the Church, Ceremonies either the Garment, or the lace of the Garment: The Gospel preached we hold the Foundation and Walls, Ceremonies hardly so much as Reed, or Tile: But how then (say you) have they overturned our best builders? This is a word of rare favour: I had thought you had held us all ruiners, not builders: Or if builders; of Babel, not of Jerusalem: in which work, the best builders are the worst. Those whose hand hath been in this act would tell you, that not so much the Ceremonies are stood upon, as obedience: If God please to try Adam but with an Apple, it is enough: What do we quarrel at the value of the fruit, when we have a prohibition? Shimei is slain: what merely for going out of the City? the act was little, the bond was great: what is commanded matters not so much, as by whom; insult not, we may thank your outrage for this loss.  
For your retortion of my Zoar and Sodom: 
Sep.  I can give you leave to be witty, 
The proportion betwixt Zoar & them holds well: Zoar was a neighbour unto Sodom both in place and sin, and obnoxious to the same destruction with it: and it was ●ots error to desire to have it spared, Gen. 19 15, 18, 19, 20 and so he never found rest nor peace in it, but forsook it for fear of the same just judgement, which had overtaken the rest of the Cities, vers. 30. The application of this to your ceremonies I leave to yourself, and them to that destruction, to which they are devoted by the Lord.  you use it so seldom: but when you have played with the allusion what you list, I must tell you that he which will needs urge a Comparison to go on four feet, is not worthy to go upon two: Zoar was near to Sodom, not part of it: Zoar was reserved when Sodom was destroyed: 
Fidem Domino habere debuerat quise came seruaturum propter cumdixerat. Mercer. in Genes.  Zoars nearness to the place where Sodom stood, needed not have given Lot cause of removal. Zoar might safely have been the harbour of Lot: his fear was for want of faith: God promised him and the place security: the far-fetched application therefore of the wickedness of Zoar to our Ceremonies might well have been forborn and kept to yourself: much less needed you (like some Anti- Lot) to call for fire and Brimstone from heaven upon your Zoar.   

SECTION. XLIX.  
The state of the Temple, and of our Church in resemblance.  
HOw you would have behaved yourself in the Temple to the money-changers: 
Sep.  you will answer when we prove our Church to be God's Temple, 
How we would have behaved ourselves in the Temple, where the money-changers were, and they that sold Doves, we shall answer you, when you prove your Church to be the Temple of God, compiled and built of spiritually-hewen and lively stones 1. Kin. 5. 17. 18 & 6. 7. 1. pet: 2. 5. and of the Cedars, Firs, and Thine trees of Lebanon. 2. Chr. 2. 8. framed and set together in that comely order which a greater than Solomon hath prescribed: unto which God hath promised his presence. But whilst we take it to be (as it is) a confused heap of dead and defiled, and polluted stones, and of all rubbish, of briars and brambles of the wilderness, for the most part, fitter for burning then building, we take ourselves rather bound to show our obedience in departing from it, than our valour in purging it, and to follow the prophet's council in flying out of Babylon, as the he goats before the flock, Ie●. 50. 8  built of that matter, and in that form which God hath prescribed: and here you send us to 1. K. 5. 17. & 2. Chr. 2. 8. Ignorantly; as if Salomon's Temple had stood till Christ's time: when neither the first, nor second (though called Beth Gnolam) out lasted more than four hundred years: Or as if the Market had been under the very roof of that Temple: whether Herod's were built of the same matter with Salomon's, and in full correspondence to it, I dispute not: it was certainly dedicated to God's service, and that (which you would hardly digest) in a solemn anniversary holiday; though not erected upon the word of any Prophet. But to let pass Allegories: we must prove ourselves the true Church of God: Thus we do it: We are true Christians, for we were baptised into the name of Christ; we truly profess our continuance in the same faith, into which we were baptised: we join together in the public services of God: we maintain every point of the most ancient Creeds: we overthrow not the foundation by any consequence, therefore what ever is wanting to us, what ever is superfluous, in spite of all the gates of Hell, we are the true Church of God. Let me ask you: Were not the people of the jews in the Prophets and in Christ's time a confused heap of dead and defiled, and (for I will use your Tautologies) polluted stones, and of all rubbish, of briars and brambles of the Wilderness, for the most part fitter for burning then building? Can we be worse than they? If wickedness can defile a Church, they shall justify us: did either those Prophets or our Saviour, rather show their obedience to God in departing from it, than their valour in purging it: you have well imitated these heavenly patterns, But what? Can your charity find nothing but rubbish? Not one square stone, not one living? You will be judging till God judge you: if you take not heed of these courses, you will so run with the He goats, that you will stand with the Goats on the left hand: That God, whose place you have usurped, give you more wisdom and love.   

SECTION. L.  
Whether Ministers should endure themselves silenced.  
THe valour of our most zealous Reformers hath truly showed itself in yeeldance: As in Duels, so here, he is the most valiant that can so master himself as not to fight: you according to the common opinion of Swaggerers, 
Sep.  blame the peaceable of cowardice, 
And what I pray you is the valour which the best hearted and most zealous Reformers amongst you, have manifested in driving out the Money-changers? doth it not appear in this, that they suffer▪ themselves to be driven out with the two stringed Whip of. Ceremonies, and subscription, by the Money-changers, the chancellors and Officials, which sell. sins like Doves; and by the chief priests the Bishops which set them on work? so far are the most zealous amongst you from driving out the Money-changers, as they themselves are driven out by them, because they will not change with them to the utmost farthing. Bar. Refor, without Tar.  and accuse them of suffering. Behold a new crime: That they suffer themselves to be driven out: What should they have done? Should they have taken arms, and cry the sword of God, and Gedion? You that will not allow a Prince to compel subjects, Will you allow subjects to compel Princes? God forbid: This were high Treason against Gods anointed: what then? Should they approve the Ceremonies by subscription, by practice? This you exclaim upon as high Treason against the highest: What yet more? Should they have preached with their mouths stopped? This is it, which you have learned of your founder, and through not many hands received, and required with no less violence: Clamour and tumult is that you desire; still let our sin be peaceable obedience, yours fury and opposition Your headstrong conceit is, that it is a sin to be silenced: Men must preach even when they may not: all times, before you, would have wondered at this Paradox: For how ever the Apostles, which had not their calling from men, would not be silenced by men, yet we find that all their successors held that those hands which were laid upon their heads, might be laid upon their mouths: look into all Histories: Those Constitutions (which though not apostolic (yet were ancient) in the seventh Canon punish a Bishop or Presbyter, 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  that upon pretence of Religion separates from his wife, with deposition: and if any Presbyter shall shift his charge without licence (〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉) and last inflicts the same penalty upon fornication, 
We charge him not to serve any more. So Can. 15. Can. 25. Cum compertum fuerit deponatur. Can. 10. De Clericatus honore periclitabitur. Can. 2. E clero deponatur & sit alienus a Canone. Can. 17. et Can. 18. A ministerio cessare debuerit Concil. Sardic. c. 4. Concil. Carth. 4. c. 48. & 56. 57 Leo. Ep. 1. Sect. 5. Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9 S●cr. l. 2. c. 21.  adultery, perjury.  
The great Nicene Counsels take the same order with some misliked Bishops, and Presbyters in divers Canons: Gaudentius in the Council of Sardi, takes it for granted, that a Bishop may by Bishops be deposed: so the second Council of Carthage, Can. 13. so the fourth Council of Carthage more than once imposes degradation: so Leo the first threats to put some offending persons from the office of their Ministry: so (that I may not be endless) blessed Cyprian advises Rogatianus a good old Bishop, which was abused by a malapert Deacon, by the authority of his Chair to right himself, and either to depose, or suspend the offender. Leontius in Socrates, is deprived of his Priesthood: yea, what Council or Father gives not both rules and instances, of this practice? See how far the ancient Church was from these tumultuous fancies: No, no, (M. R.) we well find, it is doing that undoes the Church, not suffering: If your fellows could have suffered more, and done less, the Church had been happy: As for our Church officers, you may rail upon them with a lawless safety: there is a great ditch betwixt you and them: else you might pay dear for this sin of slandering them with their cheap penniworths: How idly do you insult over those, whom your Money-changers have driven out of their Pulpits: When you confess (after all your valour) that they have driven you both out of Church and Country: who can pity a miserable insulter?   

SECTION. LI.  
Power of reforming abuses given to the Church: and the issue of the neglect of it.  
YOu that can grant there will be corruptions in all other Churches, will endure none in ours: If England should have either unleavened Wafers, or drunken Love-feasts (though no other blemishes) she could not but be Babylon: We envy not your favours: These, or whatsoever like enormities, Christ hath given power unto his Church to reform: but what if the Church neglect to use it? What if those evils, which are brought in, by human frailty, will not by divine authority be purged out? Now the error (by your doctrine) is grown fundamental; so Christ is lost, 
Bar▪ ag. Gyff p. 27. & 88  and the foundation razed: if we shall then assume (against our friends, to convince our enemies) The Church of Geneva hath been seriously dealt with, 
Sep.  in this corruption, and dissuaded by vehement importunity, 
For the Wafers in Geneva, and disorders in Corinth, they were corruptions which may and do (or the like unto them) creep into the purest Churches in the world: for the reformation whereof Christ hath given his power unto his Church, that such evils as are brought in by human frailty, may by divine authority be purged out.  yet still persisteth: How can you free them, and charge us? see how we love to be miserable, with company. This power to purge out all corruptions, Christ hath not given us: if he hath given it you; you must first begin to purge out yourselves: you have done it; but still there remain some: would God we had as much execution as power: Our Church should be as clean as yours is schismatical: if you should measure faculties by their exercise: Natural rest should be the greatest enemy to virtue: and the solitary Christian should be miserable: This power of ours is not dead, but sleepeth: When it awaketh unto more frequent use, (which we earnestly pray for) look you for the first handsel of it: None can be more worthy: as it is; we offend not more in defect than you in excess: Of whom that your Lazarello of Amsterdam G. I. could say, that you have excommunications as ready as a Prelate hath a prison: Christ is in many that feel him not; but we want not the power only, 
This power and presence of Christ you want, holding all by homage (or rather by vilenage) under the Prelates, unto whose sinful yoke you stoup in more than Babylonish bondage, bearing and approving by personal communion, infinite abominations. Troubls. & Excom. at Amsterd. An tu solus Ecclesia es? Et qui te offenderit a Christo excluditur. Hieron. Eriphan. Cypr. Solus in caelum ascend. Pupianus? Et ad Acesium Novatianum Constant. Erigito tibi scalam Acesi, & ad caelum solus ascendito. Socr. l. 1. C. 7.  but the presence of Christ: How so? He was with us while you were here: Did he depart with you? will the separatists engross our Saviour to themselves, and (as Cyprian said of Pupianus) go to heaven alone? yea, confine the God of heaven to Amsterdam? What insolence in this? we have him in his Word: we have him in his Sacraments: we have him in our hearts: we have him in our profession, yet this enemy dare say we want him: Wherein? I suppose in our censures: We have Peter's keys (as his true successors both in office, and doctrine): 
Bar. Gyff. ref. So some of their own have termed their excommunication. Confess. by M. john's. Inqu. p. 65  our fault is; that we use them not, as you would: What Church doth so? your first Martyr doth as zealously inveigh against the practice of Geneva, and all other reformed Congregations in this point, as against us: both for the wooden dagger (as he terms it) of suspension, and for their consistorial excommunications: Woe were to all the world, if Christ should limit his presence only to your fashions: here you found him, and here you left him: Would to God we did no more grieve him with our sins, than you please him in your presumptuous censures: in the rest you rail against our Prelates and us: Can any man think that Christ hath left peaceable spirits, to go dwell with railers? Indeed, yours is freehold: so you would have it: free from subjection, free from obedience: This is looseness, more than liberty: You have broken the bonds, and cast the cords from you: but you miscall our Tenure: We hate villeinage no less than you hate peace; and hold (in capite) of him, 
Col. 1. 18.  that is the head of his body, the Church: under whose easy yoke we do willingly stoop in a sweet Christian freedom; 
Sep.  abhorring, 
And in these two last respects principally, your Babylonish confusion of all sorts of people in the body of your Church, without separation, and your Babylonish bondage under your spiritual Lords the Prelates, we account you Babylon, and fly from you.  and reproving (and therefore notwithstanding our personal communion avoiding) all abominations: In these two respects therefore of our confusion, and bondage, we have well seen in this discourse, how justly your Zion accounts us Babylon: since it is apparent for the one, that here is neither confusion, nor Babylonish, nor without separation: For the other, no bondage, no servility: Our Prelates being our Fathers, not our Masters: and if Lords for their external dignity, 
Amari Parens & Episcopus debet, non timeri. Hier. ad Theophilum.  yet not Lords of our Faith: and if both these your respects were so, yet so long as we do inviolably hold the foundation, both directly, and by necessary sequel: any railer may term us, but no Separatist shall prove us Babylon: you may fly whether you list: would God yet further, unless you had more love.   

SECTION. LII.  
The view of the sins and disorders of others, whereupon objected: and how far it should affect us.  
I Need no better Analyser than yourself, save that you do not only resolve my parts, 
Sep.  but add more: 
M. H having formerly expostulated with us our supposed impiety in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon in England, proceeds in the next place to lay down our madness in choosing a substantial Babylon in Amsterdam: and if it be so found by due trial, as he suggesteth, it is hard to say, whether our impiety or madness be the greater.  whereas every motion hath a double term: from whence, and whither: both these could not but fall into our discourse; having therefore formerly expostulated with you for your (since you will so term it) impiety, in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon of your own making in England: I thought it not unfit to compare your choice with your refusal: England with Amsterdam, which it pleaseth you to entitle a substantial Babylon: impiety and madness are titles of your own choice, let your guiltiness be your own accuser: The truth is, my charity and your uncharitableness have caused us to mistake each other: my charity thus: Hearing both at Middleburgh, and here, that certain companies from the parts of Nottingham and Lincoln (whose Harbinger had been newly in Zealand before me) meant to retire themselves to Amsterdam, for their full liberty, not for the full approbation of your Church: not favouring your main opinions, but emulating your freedom in too much hate of our ceremonies, and too much accordance to some grounds of your hatred: I hoped you had been one of their guides; both because Lincolnshire was your Country, and Master Smith your Oracle, and General: Not daring therefore to charge you with perfect Brownisme, what could I think might be a greater motive to this your supposed change, than the view of our (so oft proclaimed) wickedness, and the hope of less cause of offence in those foreign parts: this I urged, fearing to go deeper than I might be sure to warrant: Now comes my charitable answerer, and imputes this easiness of my challenge, to my ignorance; and therefore will needs persuade his Christian reader, that I knew nothing of the first separation, because I objected so little to the second.  
It were strange if I should think, 
Sep.  you gather Churches there by Town-rowes (as we in England) who know that some one prison might hold all your refined flock: 

Belike M. H. thinks we gather churches here by towne-rowes, as they do in England, and that all within the parish procession are of the same Church. Wherefore else tells he us of jews, Arrians, and Anabaptists, with whom we have nothing common but the streets and marketplace? It i● the condition of the Church to live in the world, and to have civil society with the men of this world, 1. Cor. 5. 10. joh. 17. 13.  
But what is this to that spiritual communion of the saints, in the fellowship of the Gospel, wherein they are separated, and sanctified from the world unto the Lord? Ioh.▪ 17. 16. 1. Cor. 1. 2. Cor. 6. 17. 18.   you gathered here by hedgerows; but there it is easier to tell how you divide, then how you gather: let your Church be an entire body, enjoying her own spiritual communion, yet if it be not a corrosive to your heart to converse in the same streets, and to be ranged in the same Towne-rowes with jews, Arians, Anabaptists, etc. you are no whit of kin to him, that vexed his righteous soul with the uncleanenesses of foul Sodom. That good man had nothing but civil society with those impure neighbours: he differed from them in Religion, in practice, yet could he not so carelessly turn off this torment: His house was God's Church; wherein they had the spiritual communion of the Saints: yet whiles the City was so unclean, his heart was unquiet: 
Separation from the world, how required.  We may (you grant) have civil society with ill men, spiritual communion only with Saints: Those must be accounted the world, these only the Church: your own allegations shall condemn you. 
joh. 17. 16.  They are not of the world (saith Christ) as I am not of the world: Both Christ, and they were parts of the jewish Church: The jewish Church was not so sanctified, but the most were extremely▪ unclean: therefore we may be parts of a visible unsanctified Church; and yet be separate from the world. Saint Paul writes to his Corinthians, sanctified in Christ, 
1. Cor. 1. 2. 1. Cor. 3. 3.  Saints by calling: True, but not long after, he can say, ye are yet carnal. In his second Epistle: Come out (saith he) from among them: But, from whom? From Infidels by profession, not corrupted Christians.   

SECTION. LIII.  
The dearness of the State and Church, and the great errors found by the Separatists in the French and Dutch Churches.  
THE Church and State, 
Sep.  if they be two, 
We indeed have much wickedness in the City where we live; you in the Church. ●ut in earnest, do you imagine we account the Kingdom of England Babylon, or the city of Amsterdam Zion▪ It is the Church of England, or state Ecclesiastical, which we account Babylon, and from which we withdraw in spiritual communion: ●ut for the commonwealth and Kingdom, as we honour it above all the states in the world, so would we thankfully embrace the meanest corner in it, at the extremest conditions of any people in the Kingdom.  yet they are twins, and that so, as either's evil proves mutual: The sins of the City not reform, blemish the Church; where the Church hath power and in a sort comprehends the State, she cannot wash her hands of tolerated disorders in the Commonwealth: hence is my comparison of the Church (if you could have seen it, not the Kingdom) of England, with that of Amsterdam: I doubt not, but you could be content to sing the old song of us, Bona terra, mala gens: Our land you could like well, if you might be Lords alone, Thanks be to God it likes not you, and justly thinks the meanest corner too good for so mutinous a generation: when it is weary of peace it will recall you: you that neither in prison, nor on the Seas, nor in the Coasts of Virginea, nor in your way, nor in netherlands could live in peace, What shall we hope of your ease at home? Where ye are, all you thankful Tenants cannot in a powerful Christian state move God to distinguish betwixt the known sins of the City, and the Church: How oft hath our gracious Sovereign, and how importunately been solicited for a toleration of Religions? It is pity that the Papists hired not your advocation: who in this point are those true Cassander's, which reverend Calvin long since confuted: Their wishes herein are yours: 
Cassand. de office boni viri. Bellar. de Laicis  To our shame and their excuse: his Christian heart held that toleration unchristian and intolerable, which you either neglect or magnify: Good Constantine wink't at it in his beginning, 
Euseb. in vita Const.  but as David at the house of Zeruiah: Succeeding times found these Canaanites to be pricks and thorns, and therefore both by mulctes and banishments sought either their yeeldance or voidance. If your Magistrates having once given their names to the Church, endeavour not to purge this augean stable; how can you prefer their Communion to ours?  
But howsoever now, lest we should think your Landlords have too just cause to pack you away for wranglers, you turn over all the blame from the Church to the City; yet your Pastor and Church have so found the City in the Church, and branded it with so black marks, as that all your smooth extenuations cannot make it a less Babylon then the Church of England: Behold now by your own Confessions either Amsterdam shall be, or England shall not be Babylon: These eleven crimes you have found and proclaimed in those Dutch and French Churches: 
Fr. john's. Articles ag. the Fr● and Dutch Churches.  First, That the assembles are so contrived that the whole Church comes not together in one: So that the Ministers cannot together with the flock sanctify the Lords day; The presence of the members of the Church cannot be known, and finally no public action, whether excommunication, or any other can rightly be performed. Could you say worse of us? Where neither Sabbath can be rightly sanctified; nor presence or absence known, nor any holy action rightly performed, what can there be but mere confusion?  
Secondly, That they baptize the seed of them who are no members of any visible Church; of whom moreover they have not care as of members, neither admit their parents to the lords Supper: Mere Babylonisme, and sin in constitution, yea the same that makes us no Church: for what separation can there be in such admittance? what other but a sinful commixture? How is the Church of Amsterdam now gathered from the world?  
Thirdly, That in the public worship of God they have devised, and used another form of prayer, besides that which Christ our Lord hath prescribed, Mat. 6. reading out of a book certain prayers invented and imposed by man. Behold here our fellow Idolaters: and (as follows) a daily Sacrifice of a set service-book, which in stead of the sweet incense of spiritual prayers is offered to God, very Swines-flesh, 
Bar. ag. Gyss.  a new Por●uise, and an equal participation with us of the curse of addition to the word.  
Fourthly, That rule and commandment of Christ, Matth. 18. 15. they neither observe, nor suffer rightly to be observed among them. How oft have you said that there can be no sound Church without this course, because no separation? Behold the main blemish of England in the face of Amsterdam!  
Fiftly, That they worship God in the Idol Temples of Antichrist: so the Wine is marred with the vessel, their service abomination with ours: neither do these Antichristian stones want all glorious ornaments of the Romish harlot, yet more.  
Sixtly, That their Ministers have their set maintenance after another manner than Christ hath ordained, 1. Chr. 14. and that also such, as by which any Ministry at all, whether Popish or other might be maintained: Either tithes, or as ill: Behold one of the main Arguments whereby our Ministry is condemned as false and Antichristian, falling heavy upon our neighbours.  
Seventhly, That their Elders change yearly, and do not continue in their office, according to the doctrine of the Apostles and practice of the Primitive Church: What can our Church have worse than false Governors? Both annual and perpetual they cannot be: What is (if not this) a wrong in Constitution?  
Eightly, that they celebrate marriage in the Church, as if it were a part of the Ecclesiastical administration: a foul shame and sin: and what better than our third Sacrament?  
Ninthly, That they use a new censure of suspension which Christ hath not appointed: no less than English presumption.  
Tenthly, That they observe days and times, consecrating certain days in the year to the Nativity, Resurrection, Ascension of Christ: Behold their Calendar as truly possessed: Two Commandments solemnly broken at once; and we not Idolaters alone.  
Eleventh, which is last and worst, that they receive unrepentant excommunicates to be members of their Church, which by this means becomes one one body with such as be delivered unto Satan; therefore none of Christ's body: 
Counrtepoys.  England can be but a miscelline rabble of profane men; The Dutch and French Churches are belike no better, who can be worse than an unrepentant excommunicate? Go now and say, It is the Apostasy of Antichrist to have communion with the world in the holy things of God, which are the peculiars of the Church, and cannot without great Sacrilege be so prostituted and profaned; Go say, that the plaguy-spirituall-leprosie of sin rising up in the foreheads of many in that Church, unshut up, uncovered (yea wilfully let loose) infects all both persons and things amongst them: Go now and fly out of this Babylon also, as the He-goats before the flock, or return to ours: But however these errors be gross, perhaps they are tractable; Not the sin undoes the Church, but obstinacy; here is no evasion: For behold, you do no more accuse those Churches of corruption, then of wilfulness: for divers times have you dealt with them about these fearful enormities: yea you have often desired, that knowledge thereof might be by themselves given to the whole body of their Church, or that (at least) they would take order that it might be done by you: They have refused both; What remains, but they be our fellow-Heathens and Publicans? And not they alone, but all reformed Churches besides in Christendom, which do jointly partake in all these (except one or two personal) abominations: will you never leave till you have wrangled yourselves out of the world?  
But now I fear I have drawn you to say, that the hellish impieties both in the City, 
Sep.  and Church of Amsterdam are but frogs, 
The hellish impieties in the city of Amsterdam do no more prejudice our heavenly communion in the Church of Christ, than the frogs, lice, flies, murrain, and other plagues overspreading Egypt, did the Israelites when Goshen the portion of their inheritance was free Exod 8. 19 nor then the deluge, wherewith the whole world was covered did Noah, when he and his family were safe in the Ark, Gen. 7. nor then satans throne did the Church of Pergamus being established in the same city with it, Re●. 2. 12, 13.  lice, flies, murrain and other Egyptian plagues, not prejudicing your Goshen: Say so if you dare; I fear they would soon make the Ocean your red Sea, and Virginia your Wilderness.  
The Church is Noah's Ark, which gave safety to her Guests, whereof ye are part; but remember that it had unclean beasts also, and some savage: If the waves drown you not, yet (me thinks) you should complain of noisome society: Satan's throne could not prejudice the Church of Pergamus, but did not the Balaamites (the Nicolaitanes?) Yet their heavenly communion stood, and the Angel is sent away with but threats.   

SECTION. liv.  
Conversation with the world.  
AS it were madness to deny that the Church should converse with the world in the affairs thereof: 
Sep.  So to deny her Communion in Gods holy things, 
It is 〈◊〉 will of God and of Christ, that his Church should abide in the world, and converse with it in the affairs thereof which are common to both: But it is the Apostasy of Antichrist to have communion with the world in the holy things of God, which are the peculiars of the Church, and cannot without great sacrilege be so prostituted and profaned.  with any of those of the world, which profess Christianity (as yet uncensured) is a point of anabaptistical Apostasy: such of the world are still of the Church. As my censure cannot eject them, so their sin (after my private endeavour of redress) cannot defile me: I speak of private Communicants: If an unbidden Guest come with a ragged garment, and unwashen hands, shall I forbear Gods heavenly dainties? The Master of the feast can say, Friend, how cam'st thou in hither: not, Friends why came you hither with such a Guest? God bids me come: he hath imposed this necessity, never allowed this excuse: My teeth shall not be set on edge with the sour grapes of others: 
Duobus mod● non te ma●ulat malus, vid●licet si non consentis & si redarg●is d. 23. q. 4. a malis.  If the Church cast not out the known unworthy, the sin is hers: If a man will come unworthy, the sin is his: But if I come not because he comes, the sin is mine: I shall not answer for that others sin: I shall answer for mine own neglect: An other man's fault cannot dispense with my duty.   

SECTION. LV.  
The impure mixtures of the Church of England.  
AS there is no element which is not through many mixtures departed from the first simplicity: 
Sep.  So no Church ever breathed in so pure an Air, 
The air of the Gospel which you draw in is nothing so free and clear as you make show: it is only because you are used to it, that makes you so judge.  as that it might not justly complain of some thick and unwholesome evaporations of error and sin. If you challenge an immunity, you are herein the true brood of the ancient Puritans: But if too many sins in practice have thickened the Air of our Church, yet not one heresy: that smoke of the bottomless pit hath never corrupted it: and therefore justly may I aver, that here you might draw in the clear Air of the Gospel: No whereupon earth more freely: And if this be but the opinion of custom, you whom absence hath helped with a more nice and dainty sent, speak your worst: Show us our heresies, and shame us: you have done it, and behold four main infections of our English air: The first, 
1. Canons.  the smoke of our Canons: Wittily: I fear the great Ordinances of the Church, 
Sep.  have troubled you more with the blow, 
The thick smoke of your Canons, especially of such as are planted against the Kingdom of Christ the visible Church, and the administration of it, do both obscure and poison the air, which you all draw in, and wherein you breath.  than the smoke: For you tell us of their Plantation against the Kingdom of Christ: What Kingdom? The Visible Church: Which is that? Not the Reformedst piece of ours, whole best are but Goats and Swine: Not the close Nicodemians of your own Sect amongst us, which would be loath to be visible: Not foreigners, to them they extend not: None therefore in all the world, but the English Parlour-full at Amsterdam: Can there be any truer Donatisme? Cry you still out of their poisoning the Air: We hold it the best cleansed by the batteries of your idle fancies, by ridding you from our Air, and by making this your Church invisible to us; smart you thus, till we complain.  
The second is the plague or Leprosy of sin unshut up and uncovered: 
2. Sin uncensured.  We know that sin is as ill, 
Sep.  as the Devil can make it, 
The plaguy-spirituall-leprosie of sin rising up in the foreheads of so many thousands in the Church, unshut up, uncovered, infects all both persons and things amongst you. Leu. 13. 45. 46. 47. 2. cor. 6, 17.  a most loathsome thing in the eyes of God, and his Angels, and Saints: and we grant to our grief that among so many millions of men, there may be found some thousands of Lepers: Good laws and censures meet with some, others escape: It is not so much our fault, as our grief: But that this Leprosy infects all persons, and things, is shamefully overreached: Plague and Leprosy have their limits, beyond which, is no contagion; 
Certe nullius crimen maculat nescientem.  If a man come not near them, if he take the wind in an open air, they infect not: such is sin: It can infect none but the guilty: Those which act or assent to, 
Aug. Ep. 48.  or bear with it, or detest it not, are in this pollution: But those which can mourn for it, and cannot redress it, are free from infection: How many foul Lepers spiritually did our Saviour see in the public Air of the jewish Church? wherewith yet he joined, and his, not fearing infection so much, as gracing the remnants of their ruinous Church: Were those seven thousand Israelites whose knees bowed not to Baal, 
1. Reg. 19 18.  infected with the Idolatry of their neighbours? yet continued they still parts of the same Church.  
But this yet exceeds: Not only all persons, but all things? What? Our Gospel? Our heaven, earth, Sea? Our Books; Coin, Commodities? Behold, you see the same heaven with us, you have no Bibles but ours: our Air in his circular motion comes to be yours: the water that washeth our Island, perhaps washeth your hands: Our unclean Silver (I fear) maintains you: Our Commodities (in part) enrich your Landlords: and yet all things amongst us infected? you are content to take some evil from your neighbours.  
The third is our blasting Hierarchy, which suffers no good thing, 
3. Heirarchy.  (that is no Brownist, 
Sep.  no singular fancy) (for what good things have we but yours?) 
The blasting Hierarchy suffers no good thing to grow, or prosper, but withers all both bud and branch.  to grow, or prosper amongst us, but withers all both bud and branch, would to God the root also: The last, is the daily sacrifice of a service-book: an incense, how ever unsavoury to you, 
4. service-book.  yet such as all Churches in Christendom hold sweet, 
Sep.  and offer up as fit for the nostrils of the Almighty; 
The daily sacrifice of the service-book which in stead of spiritual prayer sweet as incense, you offer up morning and evening, smells so strong of the Pope's Portuise, as it makes many hundreds amongst yourselves stop their noses at it; and yet you boast of the free and clear air of the Gospel wherein you breath.  we are not alone thus tainted; all Christian Churches that are, or have been, present the same Censers unto God: But ours smells strong of the Pope's Portuise: See whether this be any better than trivial cavilling: If either an ill man, or a Devil shall speak that which is good; may not a good man use it? If a good Angel, or man shall speak that which is evil, is it ever the better for the Deliverer? If Satan himself shall say of Christ; Thou art the son of the living God, shall I fear to repeat it? Not the Author but the matter, in these things is worthy of regard: As Jerome speaks of the poisoned works of Origen, and other dangerous Treatisours, Good things may be received from ill hands; If the matter of any prayer be Popish, fault it for what it contains, not for whence it came: what say you against us in this, more than Master Smith (your stout Anabaptist) saith of our baptizing of Infants: 
Patres nostri non solum ante Cyprianum vel Agrippinum, sed postea, saluberrimam consuetudinem tenuerunt, ut quicquid divinum atque legitimum in aliqua haeresi vel schismate integrum reperirent approbarent potius quam negarent. August.  Both of them equally condemned for Antichristian: Still therefore we boast of the free, and clear air of the Gospel, if it be annoyed with some practical evils, we may be foul, the Gospel is itself, and our profession holy, neither can we complain of all evils, while we want you.   

SECTION. LVI.  
The judgement of our own, and our neighbours of our Church.  
THat which followeth is but words, a short answer is too much: That all Christendom magnifies the worthiness of our Church, 
Sep.  in so clear evidences of their own voices you cannot deny; 
That all Christendom should so magnify your happiness (as you say) is much, and yet yourselves, and the best amongst you, complain so much both in word, and writing, of your miserable condition, under the imperious and superstitious impositions of the Prelates, yea and suffer so much also under them, as at this day you do for seeking the same Church-government and Ministry, which is in use in all other Churches save your own. Socrat. l. 1. c. 4. Constant. Alex. & Ario. Ac tamet si vos inter vos vic●ssim de re qu●piam minimi momenti dissent●tis (siquidem neque omnes de omnibus rebus idem sentimus nihilom●nus tan● fi●ri p●terit, ut eximia concordia sincerè inter vos, integr●que s●ru●tur, & una inter omnes communio & consociatio custodiatur.  and now when you see such testimonies abroad (lest you should say nothing) you fetch cavils from home: Those men which (you say) complain so much of their miserable condition under the Prelate's impositions, have notwithstanding with the same pens and tongues not only justified our Church but extolled it: you have found no sharper adversaries in this very accusation, for which you maliciously city them: How freely, how sully have they evinced the truth? yea the happiness of the Church of England against your false challenges: and yet your forehead dare challenge them for Authors: So hath their moderation opposed some appendances, that they have both acknowledged and defended the substance with equal vehemence to your opposition: neither do they suffer (as you traduce them) for seeking another Church-governement: look into the Millenaries petition (the common voice of that part) I am deceived, if ought of their complaints sound that way, much less of their sufferings: deformity in practice is objected to them, not endeavour of innovation; That quarrel hath been long silent, your motion cannot revive it: would God you could as much follow those men in moderate and charitable carriage, as you have outrun them in complaint.  
It pleaseth you to devise us, 
Sep.  like pictures upon course Canvas, 
The truth is, you are best liked where you are worst known. Your next neighbours of Scotland know your Bishop's Government so well, as they rather choose to undergo all the misery, of bonds and banishment, then to partake with you in your happiness this way, so highly do they magnify and applaud the same Which choice I doubt not other Churches also would make, if the same necessity were laid upon them.  which show fairest at farthest; attributing foreign approbation (which you cannot deny) to distance, more than to desert. How is it then, that (besides strange witnesses) we which look upon this face without prejudice, commend it (God knows) without flattery: we can at once acknowledge her infirmities, and bless God for her graces: Our neighbours, (yea ourselves) of Scotland, know our Church so well, that they do with one consent praise her for one of God's best daughters; neither do the most rigorous amongst them, more dislike our Episcopal Government, then embrace our Church: what fraud is this, to fly from the Church in common, to one circumstance? we can honour that noble Church in Scotland, may we not dislike their alienations of Church-livings? If one thing offend, do all displease? Yet even this Government, which you would have them resist to bonds and banishment (who knows not?) begins to find both favour and place: what choice other Churches would make, as you doubt not, so you care not: If you regarded their sentence: How durst your revile her as a false harlot, whom they honour as a dear sister? If you were more theirs than we, you might upbraid us: Now you tell us what perhaps they would do, we tell you what they do, and will do: Even with one voice, bless God for England, as the most famous and flourishing Church in Christendom: 
Sep.  your handful only makes faces, 
And for your graces, we despise them not nor any good thing amongst you, no more than you do such graces and good things as are to be found in the Church of Rome, from which you separate notwithstanding. We have by God's mercy the pure and right use of the good gifts and graces of God in Christ's Ordinance which you want. Neither the Lords people, nor the holy vessels could make Babylon Zion, though both the one and the other were captived for a time. Lastly, it is thus written, and we thus advised. M. smith's. retort upon M. Cliston. p. 50,.  and envies this true glory; Who yet (you say) despise not our graces, no more than we those of Rome: See how you despise us while you say, you are free from despite: How malicious is this Comparison, as if we were to you, as Rome to us: and yet you despise us more: We grant Rome a true Baptism, true visibility of a Church, though monstrously corrupted: you give not us so much: Thanks be to God, we care less for your censure, than you do for our Church: We have by God's mercy the true and right use of the word, and Sacraments, and all other essential gifts and graces of God; if there might be some further helps in execution, to make these more effectual, we resist not: But those your other imaginary ordinances, as we have not, so we want not: Neither the Chaldeans, nor any Idolatrous enemies could make Zion Babylon, nor the holy vessels profane; so as they should cease to be fit for God's use: but they were brought back at the return of the captivity to jerusalem: Such were our worship, ministry, Sacraments, and those manifold subjects of your cavils, which whiles you disgrace for their former abuse, you call our good evil, and willingly despise our graces.   

SECTION. LVII.  
The issue of Separation.  
ALL the sequel of my answerer is merely sententious: 
Sep.  it is fitter for us to learn, 
Where the truth is a gainer, the Lord (which is truth) cannot be a loser. Neither is the thanks of ancient favours lost amongst them, which still press on towards new mercies. Unthankful are they unto the blessed majesty of God, and unfaithful also, which Inter licet vestrum & non licet nostrum, nutant ac remigant animae Christianorum. Optat contr. Parm.  than reply: Where the truth gains (say you) God looseth not▪ I tell you again, where God looseth, the truth gaineth not, and where the Church looseth, God (which endowed her) cannot but lose: Alas what can the truth either get or save by such unkind quarrels? Surely suspicion on some hands, on others rejection: for (as Optatus of his Donatists) Betwixt our Licet, and your Non licet many poor souls waver and doubt: neither will settle, because we agree not: Thanks are not lost, where new favours are called for, but where old are denied, while your Posy is: Such as the mother such is the daughter; where are our old, our any mercies? They are unthankful, which know what God hath done, and confess it not: They are unfaithful to God and his Deputy, which knowing themselves made to obey, presume to overrule, and upon their private authority, obtrude to the Church those ordinances to be observed, which never had being but in their own idle speculation.  
Your Sequestration and our confusion, 
Sep.  are both of them beneficial, 

knowing the will of their Master do it not, but go on presumptuously in disobedience to many the holy ordinances of the Lord, and of his Christ, which they know, and in word also acknowledge, he hath given to his Church to be observed, and not for idle speculation, and disputation without obedience.  
It is not by our sequestration, but by your confusion, that Rome and Hell gains.   where they should not: and as you pretend our confusion for the cause of your Separation; So is your Separation the true cause of too much trouble, and confusion in the Church: Your odious tale of commixture hath cloyed and surfeited your reader already, and received answer to satiety: This one dish so oft brought forth, argues your poverty: 
Sep.  The visible Church is God's drag-net, 

Your odious commixture of all sorts of people in the body of your Church, in whose lap the vilest miscreants are dandled, sucking her breasts, as her natural children, and are be-blest by her (as having right thereunto) with all her holy things as prayer, sacraments, and other ceremonies, is that which advantageth hell, in the final obduration and perdition of the wicked, whom by these means you flatter and deceive. Non enim propter malos boni des●rendi, sed propter bonos mali tolerandi sunt, etc. Sicut tolerau●runt Prophetae etc. Aug. Ep. 48. Bar. ag. Gyff.  
Sep. The Romish Prelacy and Priesthood amongst you, with the appurtenances for their maintenance and ministrations are Rome's advantage. Which therefore she challengeth as her own, and by which she also still holds possession amongst you, under the hope of regaining her full inheritance at one time or other.   and field, and floor, and Ark, here will be ever at her best, sedge, tars, chaff, unclean Creatures: yet is this no pretence for her neglect: The notoriously evil she casts from her breast, and knee, denying them the use of her prayers, and (which your leaders mislike) of her Sacrament; If divers through corruption of unfaithful officers, escape censure; yet let not the transgressions of some, redound to the condemnation of the whole Church: In God's judgement it shall not, we care little, if in yours. We tell wicked men, they may go to hell-with the water of Baptism in their faces, with the Church in their mouths, we denounce Gods judgements unpartially against their sins, and them: Thus we flatter, thus we deceive, if yet they will needs run to perdition: Perditio tua ex te Israel.  
Our Clergy is so Romish as our Baptism: If therefore Romish, because they came thence, we have disproved it: If therefore Romish because they have been used there, we grant and justify it, That ancient confession of their faith which was famous through the world we receive with them: If they hold one God, one Baptism, one heaven, one Christ shall we renounce it? Why should we not cast off our Christendom and humanity, because the Romans had both? How much Rome can either challenge, or hope to gain in our Clergy and Ministration is well witnessed by the blood of those Martyrs, eminent in the Prelacy, which in the fresh memories of many was shed for God, against that Harlot: and by the excellent labours of others, both Bishops and Doctors: whose learned pens have pulled down more of the walls of Rome, than all the corner-creeping Brownists in the world shall ever be able to do, while Amsterdam standeth. It is you that furnish these adversaries with advantages, 
Sep.  through your wilful divisions: 
And if the Papists take advantage at our condemnation of you, and separation from you: it concerns you, well to see where the blame is, and there to lay it, least through light, and inconsiderate judgement, you justify the wicked, and condemn the righteous.  Take Scilurus his arrows, single out of the sheaf, the least finger breaks them, while the whole bundle fears no stress: we know well where the blame is, our deservings can be no protection to you: you went from us, not we from you. Plead not our constraint, you should not have been compelled to forsake us, while Christ is with us: But who compels you not to call us brethren? to deny us Christians? your zeal is so far from justifying the wicked, that it condemns the righteous.   

SECTION. LVIII.  
The Brownists scornful opinion of our people.  
How scornfully do you turn over our poor rude multitude, 
Sep.  as if they were beasts not men; 
And for the suspicion of the rude multitude, you need not much fear it. They will suspect nothing that comes under the King's broad seal: they are ignorant of this fault. Though it were the mass that came with authority of the magistrate, they (for the most part) would be without suspicion of it: so ignorant and profane are they in the most places.  or if men, not rude, but savage: This contempt needed not: These sons of the earth may go before you to heaven: Indeed as it was of old said, that all Egyptians were Physicians: so may it now of you: All Brownists are divines, no Separatist cannot prophesy: No sooner can they look at the skirts of this hill, but they are rapt from the ordinary pitch of men: Either this change is perhaps by some strange illumination, or else your learned paucity got their skill amongst our rude and profane multitude: we have still many in our rude multitude, whom we dare compare with your teachers: neither is there any so lewd and profane that cannot pretend a scandal from your separation: Even these souls must be regarded (though not by you.) Such were some of you, but ye are washed, etc.  
The wise hearted amongst us do more than suspect, find out our weaknesses, and bewail them; yet do they not more discover our imperfections then acknowledge our truth: 
1 Sam. 10. 10.  If they be truly wise, 
It is the wise hearted amongst you that suspect your dealings, who will also suspect you yet more, as your unfound dealing shall be further discovered.  we cannot suspect them, they cannot forsake us: Their charity will cover, more than their wisdoms can discover.   

SECTION. LIX.  
The conclusion from the fearful answer of Separation.  
MY last threat, of the easier answers of whoredoms, & adulteries than Separation, you think to scoff out of countenance. I fear your conscience will not always allow this mirth; Our Consistories have spared you enough: 
Troub. & excom at Amster. G. john's. professes he found better dealing in the Bishops' Consistories; and might have found better in the Inquisition.  let those which have tried, say, whether your corrupt Eldership be more safe judges: If ours imprison justly, yours excommunicate unjustly; To be in Custody is less grievous, then out of the Church: at least, if your censures were worth any thing, but contempt: As Hierom said of the like: It is well that malice hath not so great power as will: 
Hieron. Cypr. de simplic. praelat. Ad pacis praemium ven●re non polerunt, qui pacem domini discordiae furore ruperunt.  you shall one day (I fear) find the Consistory of heaven more rigorous, if you wash not this wrong with your tears; That tribunal shall find your confidence, presumption; your zeal, fury: you are bold, surely more than wise: To proclaim, we have no need of such criers: doubtless your head hath made Proclamations long, 
Ibid.  now your hand begins: 
Inexpiabilis & g●auis culpa discordiae nec passione purgatur.  What proclaim ye? Separation from the Communion, Government, Ministry and worship of the Church of England: 
Sep  what needed it? Your act might have saved your voice: 
Lastly the terrible threat you utter against us, that even whoredoms and murders shall abide an easier answer than separation, would certainly fall heavy upon us, if this answer were to be made in your Consistory Courts; or before any of your Ecclesiastical judges; but because we know, that not Antichrist, but Christ shallbe our judge, we are hold upon the warrant of his word and testament, (which being sealed with his blood may not be altered) to proclaim to all the world separation from whatsoever riseth up rebelliously, against the sceptre of his kingdom, as we are undoubtedly persuaded, the Communion, government, ministry, and worship of the Church of England do.  what should our eyes and ears be troubled with one bad object?  
But why separate you from these? 
john Robinson.  Because they rise up rebelliously against the Sceptre of Christ: The Sceptre of Christ is his word: he holds it out, we touch and kiss it: What one sentence of it, do we wilfully oppose? away with these foolish impieties, you thrust a Reed into your saviour's hand, & say, Hail King of the jews, and will needs persuade us none but this is his rod of Iron: Lastly, upon what warrant? Of his will and Testament: you may wrong us; But how dare you fasten your lies upon your Redeemer and judge? What clause of his hath bid you separate? We have the true Copies. As we hope or desire to be saved, we can find no sentence that soundeth toward the favour of this your act: Must God be accused of your wilfulness? Before that God and his blessed Angels, and Saints, we fear not to protest that we are undoubtedly persuaded, that whosoever wilfully forsakes the Communion, Government, ministery, or worship of the Church of England are enemies to the Sceptre of Christ, and rebels against his Church and anointed: neither doubt we to say, that the mastership of the Hospital at Norwich, or a lease from that City (sued for, with repulse) might have procured that this separation from the Communion, Government, and worship of the Church of England, should not have been made by  
john Robinson.  
FINIS.   

A Table of all the Sections contained in this Book.  

THE entrance into the work. fol. 1.  
The answerers' Preamble. fol. 3.  
The parties written to, and their crime. fol. 6.  
The kinds of separation and which is just. fol. 8.  
The antiquity and examples of separation. fol. 12.  
What separation is to be made by Churches in their planting, or restoration. fol. 16.  
What separation the Church of England hath made. fo. 19  
Constitution of a Church. fol. 21  
Order 2. Part of Constitution, how far requisite, and whether hindered by Constraint. fol. 23.  
Constraint requisite. fol. 24  
Constitution of the Church of England. fol. 26.  
The Answerers' title. fol. 31.  
The Apostasy of the Church of England. fol. 33.  
The Separatists acknowledgements of the graces of the Church of England. fol. 39  
The unnaturalness of some principal separatists fol. 42.  
What the Separatists think themselves beholden to the Church of England for. fol. 44.  
The Motherhood of the Church of England, how far it obligeth us. fol. 45.  
The want of pretended Ordinances of God, whether sinful to us: and whether they are to be set up without Princes. fol. 48.  
The bonds of God's word unjustly pleaded by the Separatists. fol. 51.  
The necessity of their pretended Ordinances. fol. 52.  
The enormities of the Church in common. fol. 55.  
The Church of England is the Spouse of Christ. fol. 56.  
How the Church of England hath separated from Babylon. fol. 57  
The Separation made by our holy Martyrs. fol. 62.  
What separation England hath made. fol. 63.  
The main grounds of Separation. fol. 65.  
The truth and warrant of the Ministry of England. fol. 66.  
Confused Communion of the profane. fol. 70.  
Our Errors intermingled with Truth. fol. 71.  
Whether our Prelacy be Antichristian. fol. 74.  
The judgement and practice of other Reformed Churches. fol. 77.  
Our Synods determination of things indifferent. fol. 78.  
Sins sold in our Courts. fol. 81.  
Our loyalty to Princes cleared, theirs questioned. fol. 84.  
Errors of Free will, etc. feigned upon the Church of England. fol. 86.  
Kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper. fol. 87.  
Whether our Ordinary and service-book, be made Idols by us. fol. 89.  
Marriage not made a Sacrament by the Church of England. fol. 95.  
Commutation of Penance in our Church. fol. 98.  
Oath ex Officio. fol. 99  
Holidays how observed in the Church of England. 100  
Our approbation of an unlearned Ministry disproved. fol. 102.  
Penances enjoined in the Church of England. fol. 103.  
The practices of the Church of England, concerning the Funerals of the dead. fol. 104.  
The Churches still retained in England. fol. 108.  
The Founders and Furnitures of our Churches. fol. 110.  
On what ground Separation or Ceremonies was objected. fol. 112.  
Estimation of Ceremonies, and subjection to the Prelates. fol. 114.  
The state of the Temple, and of our Church in resemblance. fol. 117.  
Whether Ministers should endure themselves silenced. fol. 119.  
Power of reforming abuses given to the Church: and the issue of the neglect of it. fol. 121.  
The view of the sins and disorders of others, whereupon objected: and how far it should affect us. fol. 124.  
The dearness of the State and Church, and the great errors found by the Separatists in the French and Dutch Churches. fol. 127.  
Conversation with the world. fol. 132.  
The impure mixtures of the Church of England. fo. 133.  
The judgement of our own, and our neighbours of our Church. fol. 137.  
The issue of Separation. fol. 140  
The Brownists scornful opinion of our people. fol. 143.  
The Conclusion from the fearful answer of Separation. fol. 144.    

Errata.  
Read welbeloveds for welbelovedst. Epist pa. ult. Con●iction for conjunction. pag. 32. line 19 Uncharitableness for unchariblenesse. pag. 47. line 18. Optat. lib. 3. for Opt. lib. 30. marg. pag. 49. Rules of Christ, for rules Christ. pag. 50. line 1. Places; onwards. for places onwards. pag. 66. line. 18. Our ministery for your ministery. pag. 67. line 8. That houses for what house's pag. 80. line 16. waryof, for weary of, pag. 88 line 16. shrift for strife. pa. 99 l. 12 Envy for annoy, pag. 103. line 13. Ingenuously, for ingeniously, pag. 104. line. 19 which are; in, for which are in, pag. 107. line 13.  
Besides, many quotations in the margin, are misplaced; the matter will lead the Reader to the right place:  
The words of the adversary are only those, which have this Note of Sep. set before them.